# very anemic goat.



## VKat (Jan 19, 2015)

I got two goats very cheap from someone who was selling their whole herd.
The previous owner said he had been going through a tough time and couldn't afford to feed them over the winter. I figured it was a great opportunity for me to get started. Should have realized it was a red flag.  I'm new to goats and now I have animals that clearly need extra care.

The goat in my avatar photo is a 5 year (or more?) old doe.  Her eyelids are frighteningly pale. Near white pale.  She had a serious digestive upset almost 2 weeks ago, I found her down and her rumen was silent.  Treated for bloat, and she got better (a very scary experience). I had her inside from the cold, and kept her several days to make sure she was really okay before outfitting her with a coat and letting her rejoin her pals.
After all of that, following advise given online, I checker her color and found her very anemic.  
Immediately got Ivermectin and treated that day. 
She has been losing weight.
Her appetite is good. 
Both her and the other goat I got from that sale have rough coats compared to my other doe. 
Both seem too skinny.
This anemic goat has a bald tail tip too. 

I have marked on my calendar 10 day intervals to re-dose the Ivermectin 2 more times. 
I am feeding them Dumor goat pellets, Manna Pro loose minerals free choice, and second cut hay I get from a local store is always available.
I've also been adding unsulphured molasses, and probios. 
But she is still deathly pale. 

I ordered Copper bolus Copasure for goats online, and am getting Red Cell to give her.
What more can I do?
If anyone with experience can give me advice- what is best to get them back to health?


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## jodief100 (Jan 20, 2015)

I would cut out the molasses but everything else sounds good.   The rough coat is probably form a mineral deficiency and it sounds like you are taking care of that. 

The Ivermectin may not be working.  Do you have a vet who can run a fecal?  Even a small animal vet should be able to if you don't have a large animal vet. 

You need to know if the Ivermec is working.  If not you need to try another wormer, Cydectin or Prohibit.  Other than that, lots of TLC and good food.


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 20, 2015)

that you can get them both back to health


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## luvmypets (Jan 20, 2015)

x2


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## Southern by choice (Jan 20, 2015)

Everything @jodief100  said!  Definitely cut out the molasses.

Sounds as though you are the best thing to happen to them. Hoping they improve quickly.


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## VKat (Jan 20, 2015)

Thank you guys <3   
I started calling vets.  A friend found a list in my state that work with goats.  So far one has called back, and he was really great.  He took time to give me advice even though I am out of their area. 
He said I'm on the right track, and that I can give her kale along with Red Cell to help her iron levels to help with the anemia.
He also said that just proper feeding will help. 
He also said that the copper in the feed and minerals will be enough to get her okay over time.  Which I am not sure- what do you guys think?  Because I have been reading a lot of good things about giving a copper bolus to help with general health and also barber pole worms. Which are known to cause anemia. 

He also advised me to giver her Karo syrup at 15 cc twice a day.  He said that will help her with the weight loss since the sugars in that are going to give her body energy.
Lastly he gave me tips on fecal floats and told me if I have any troubles reading them, I can send images to his office.  I am saving that # since he was so helpful and nice. 

Right now I am feeling lots better having had a vet reassure me.  She is up and around, eating and has a very good appetite and is not lethargic at all.
All of those are good signs so I shouldn't panic.  
He said it is hard for them to rebuild red blood cells. That it takes time.

Still waiting to hear from other vets. If someone is closer to me, maybe i can send a fecal to them, or they can come here. I found a place you can send samples to in the mail and they will run testing for you too. I would rather do what will give me the answers soonest though.

I'm also getting a microscope and supplies ordered so I can learn to do fecal testing myself. It just seems to make sense to know how to do this stuff since the more I read, the more I see how important regular testing is. I don't mind learning this, one of my first jobs after high school was as a vet assistant. 

In the meantime, I want to make sure I am feeding them as perfectly as possible. 
I will put the molasses away. 
Are there any other things, like alfalfa or protein source that will help?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 20, 2015)

I disagree with the copper issue. Many are in areas that are copper deficient and even with loose minerals it is not always enough.
As far as the microscope... Have a source for a good scope resonably priced as well as please get the McMasters slides


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## VKat (Jan 20, 2015)

Do you think Copasure copper bolus for goats is a good product to use?
I ordered that and some B vitamins too.

I already ordered a microscope on Amazon because I can get things shipped to me that way fast. I can always return it if it isn't the right for the job. One of the reviews for the one I picked said they love it and use it for their goats and the animal shelter, so I figured it was a safe bet.
Do you have a link? If the place you know is better then I can cancel my order.

I found articles online about doing testing, and one mentioned slides especially for counting eggs is that the McMaster type?  Where can I find those?  Can I use regular slides at all?  

Thank you! Your advice is really appreciated!


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 20, 2015)

How long have you had her?


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## VKat (Jan 20, 2015)

I got them December 12th, so a little more than a month.


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## MsDeb (Jan 20, 2015)

Out of curiosity, why cut out the molasses?  The first vet we went to with the anemic goat (who doesn't really treat goats but does treat cattle) said give molasses.  We've since changed vets but I'd still like to know. Does it hurt anything or just not help?


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## MsDeb (Jan 20, 2015)

Oh, and VKat, I truly hope everything works.  It's so easy to get to attached and its frustrating to have a sick critter depending on you while you're scrambling to do everything you can do.


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## VKat (Jan 20, 2015)

Thank you MsDeb!
And everyone else. <3 
I will try and update about how things go.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 21, 2015)

The issue with molasses is that it is very high in sulfur, which can cause other issues.  It is fine for the occasional boost but not for use in any regularity (or in a sweet feed).

There was a thread awhile back about someone saving a very very anemic goat...lemme see if I can pull it up.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 21, 2015)

Here is is.  

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/saving-a-very-anemic-goat-post-16-another-goat.20662/


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## VKat (Jan 21, 2015)

Thank you Pearce Pastures! 
I have a question about the molasses, does it make a difference if it is the unsulphured kind? Just curious, I have stopped giving it to them.
Also, much more importantly, how bad is sweet feed?
I ask this because my husband brought home a bag of Dumor sweet feed last shopping round. He said it was all they had left :/  I still have a little bit of regular pellets, so I thought I would mix them.
Is that going to be bad for my girls?

This morning I gave them their second round of Ivomec at what I hope is a generous enough, but safe dosage.  2.75 ml for a 78 lb. goat given orally. Does that sound about right?
The vet assured me that it is a very safe choice with a wide safety margin, but I know it's very bad idea to under-dose.

Also about the Karo syrup, has anyone done or heard of that advice before?
I should use the light kind, right?


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## VKat (Jan 22, 2015)

An update and another question!
UPDATE: 
Selma is doing very well from what I can tell. She is eating with gusto, and seems to have a bit more pep. I think the Red Cell is helping. Her lids still are very pale, but since she is otherwise not showing symptoms of serious anemia I'm very hopeful. Reading the thread linked above makes me feel very fortunate that she is doing so well. 
I have increased the amount of grain (pelleted food) I'm giving slightly to help her gain back weight.

Okay QUESTION: 
I have a doe that is pregnant and I think will kid soon. (she was already preg when we got her so the due date is unknown, but I'm seeing signs!) 
How can I best make ABSOLUTELY SURE that I am protecting everyone, and especially new kids from passing on health issues?
Expectant mom goat has been given the same Ivomec worming treatment along with my other two. 
She also had the CD/T vaccine and booster already (booster given 1/11)
I found the extremely helpful post about kidding, and read that worms can be especially dangerous to kids. I have not gotten a fecal read yet, but due to the anemia symptom, I feel likr it's reasonable to worry about barber pole worms. 
How can I best protect the kids when they arrive?

Thank you guys so much for helping out! <3

p.s. I was directed to a place I can mail a sample and have it done and am going to the post office tomorrow to send that express! Friday is the soonest I can get a ride into town. So soon I will know for sure what's up.


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 22, 2015)

Glad to hear that Selma is doing better 

can't help you on the question but maybe @Southern by choice or others can help


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## Southern by choice (Jan 22, 2015)

Monitoring the kids is best. Finding someone local that can do your fecals or you learning yourself is best. Cocci is a real kid issue. That can be checked with fecals also. The kids will need a CDT too.

Have the goats been tested for CAE?

If the does are positive they will pass it to their kids. If you aren't sure than you could pull the kids heat treat the colostrum and bottle feed treated colostrum and pasteurized milk. 

You do not want CAE!


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## jodief100 (Jan 22, 2015)

I do not like sweet feed because it can mold.  If you go through a bag fairly fast it should be fine.  Glad to hear you are getting a fecal done.  Does tend to loose their natural immunity against worms when they get close to kidding. 

I do copper boluses and they do help the worms, albeit only temporarily.  I use the copasure for cattle and break it into smaller doses.


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## VKat (Jan 22, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> Monitoring the kids is best. Finding someone local that can do your fecals or you learning yourself is best. Cocci is a real kid issue. That can be checked with fecals also. The kids will need a CDT too.
> 
> Have the goats been tested for CAE?
> 
> ...



I am going to learn to do my own here. My microscope came today! So I am getting ready to give it my first try. However I think that while I learn, it's good to send sample to some pros. 

I have heard of CAE, but no one has any swollen or stiff joints. 
I can get the test done anyway for peace of mind though. I got a blood test kit from biotracking for pregnancy confirmation, and they also do an ELISA for CAE 
If you guys think that I should just test all three? 

My current worry is about any droppings in their area re-infecting them or infecting kids. 
Is that a potential problem?
What measures can I take to make sure?
Thanks!


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## VKat (Jan 22, 2015)

jodief100 said:


> I do not like sweet feed because it can mold.  If you go through a bag fairly fast it should be fine.  Glad to hear you are getting a fecal done.  Does tend to loose their natural immunity against worms when they get close to kidding.
> 
> I do copper boluses and they do help the worms, albeit only temporarily.  I use the copasure for cattle and break it into smaller doses.



I read Copasure has really positive reviews. I found a goat size on Jeffers. I have also read conflicting info on how to administer them. How do you give yours?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 23, 2015)

We use the goat copasure.  Use the provided weight chart.  Have a drenching syringe of water ready, toss it to the back of their throat, and squirt water at it---they will swallow.

Not sure on the molasses but my experience is why I am a bit against the sweet feed and use of molasses regularly.

We sold a sweet little doe to a couple who were loving it to death, gave it sweet feed right off instead of regular feed because they thought she would like it.  Well she did.  Then they called me sobbing when she was falling over, couldn't stand right, and was not eating. 

I had them rush her to out vet where he checked her out thoroughly and diagnosed her with polioencephalomalacia, brought on by too much sulfur in her feed.  He dosed her with thiamine, gave fluids, and told them no more sweet feeds.  

Might not happen to all of them but it is not needed and there are bunches of studies that have confirmed the connections so we just don't do it and don't suggest it to others.


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## VKat (Jan 24, 2015)

Thanks!
I got Selma to eat her Copasure pill inside some marshmallow. She was easy. My other two... not so much. Guess I'm going to have to pill them  
I'm mixing the sweet feed with the regular pellets, and having read your experience, I think I may get another bag of regular pellets to continue doing that so they aren't getting too much of the sweet stuff. 
We are having a problem out here lately with stores running out of things. My poor turkeys are eating meat bird crumbles right now because there wasn't any of the flock pellets I usually give them. *sigh*

Selma is continuing to seem well- active and good appetite, but she is still very thin and has pale lids. 
I'm going to try and get a photo to see what you guys think.


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