# Best animal to get into as business?



## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

If we arent into the meat business is there any type of livestock that is easy to keep that we can make a decent living on or any combination of small livestock? Are alpacas still a good choice in canada?


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## BrownSheep (Jan 8, 2013)

I don't know about Canada but in Idaho alpacas and llamas have really lost their value. You can easily get them for cheap or free. A lot of these come from really expensive stock but the demand and supply have really suppressed their value.

I would say beef cows could be a good investment. It's easy to sell a steer for 500 for most people around here.


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

yeah id do anything but get into meat animals or large animals 

any kind of sheep still hold value? Im shocked at alpaca i thought they still had a good market because of the fleece. 


I just hate the business i am in looking to invest in something i love (animals) with saved $$


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## goodolboy (Jan 8, 2013)

Katahdin hair sheep are hot right now. Stick to the good stock and sell breeder ewe. I'm a farmer, and have a full time job. Not sure what you mean "Make a living". LOL


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## Roll farms (Jan 8, 2013)

Almost all of the 'big' alpaca herds are dispersing...the 'new' has worn off and folks are selling out like crazy.  Animals bought for $20,000.00 a few years ago are selling for $1,000.00 at dispersal sales.
I dunno 'bout you, but that kind of loss would kill my business.

I used to own a guard llama I got for free.  He was of absolutely fabulous bloodlines, and the guy imported his sire, paid like $10 g for him.  10 yrs later he's GIVING away the offspring.

The price was jacked way, way up on those critters when they first opened imports again in the late 80's or early 90's.  The fleece just isn't worth what the animal costs.  It sells higher than sheep wool, but not that much higher!  They're also pretty high-maintenance (we did that - keeping weak stock and babying it b/c who can offord to let that kind of investment die...?) compared to 'wild' stock.

Sheep or goats.


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## Four Winds Ranch (Jan 8, 2013)

Ya, here in Alberta, Canada, Alpacas go pretty cheap!     There are alot  that can be picked up anywhere from $200-free! Llamas are the same. But, they do taste good!


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## BrownSheep (Jan 8, 2013)

Ok so NO meat animals. So, fiber or milk. Unless you plan on getting quite a few milk and fiber animals can be difficult to make profit on. 
I'm not certain what spinners favor but notice a lot of Blue Faced Lancaster wool floating around eBay and etsy. Several member here raise Jacobs for spinning. Milk could make you a little bi of money but ultimately leads into the meat buisness as well because of excess kids and calves.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 8, 2013)

BrownSheep said:
			
		

> I don't know about Canada but in *Idaho alpacas and llamas have really lost their value*. You can easily get them for cheap or free. A lot of these come from really expensive stock but the demand and supply have really suppressed their value.
> 
> I would say beef cows could be a good investment. It's easy to sell a steer for 500 for most people around here.


Big time. I know someone in Idaho who just got almost 30 llamas for free.  The owners even delivered them!


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## BrownSheep (Jan 8, 2013)

Yep, I know food banks that serve llama meat because the owners donated them. Llamas just aren't worth the feed any more.


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

can you have a small amount of beef animals and combine it with some kind of fiber animal and poultry and make a good living ? 


Beef like highland or longhorns something strong hardy with horns? If that is where the profit is


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## boykin2010 (Jan 8, 2013)

Selling registered breeding stock is usually the way to go when trying to make money. 
Hair sheep are in a huge demand around here. Katahdins especially.  Breeders usually sell out of stock a year in advance


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

but will such things die in demand? like the poor alpacas did? 

or will sheep never die? 

Is higland cattle a few something good to invest in? Just rying to plan this ahead and research before i go investing a lot of money and a bigger space. Also gonna look at farms etc.. But would rather have a wide variety.


As long as the yearly net profit will grow eventually. And i dont have to butcher my own animals.


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## BrownSheep (Jan 8, 2013)

With any animal that you plan on breeding there is a good chance some will be butchered. Not all animals that are born have the potential or quality to become breeding stock. The future of the breed depends on selective breeding to better the health and quality of the animals. Of course you don't have to butcher them yourself! You should be aware  people will indeed butcher some of the animals they buy from you. You cam always do a no breeding flock of fiber animals.

Sheep like most livestock are generally meat animals. I raise sheep and send some to the butcher every year. It can be difficult but I know they live a good life and provide an important supply of substance.


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 8, 2013)

I know you said you don't want to raise meat animals, but from what I have read... you might want to look into a few breeder pigs. Cost of feed ratio to actual body weight gain is about the highest you can find in many animals. And the cost of pork usually stays decent. 1 male and 2 or 3 females can keep you in feeder pigs pretty well. Cost of feed would be offset by sales of baby pigs, and you could do trades for other items/livestock. 

Sorry, I don't know of many other $ making ventures in the livestock biz.. Really, if there was a way to make a 'real' living off livestock, everyone would be doing it, OR they wouldn't share their secrets to keep the market from being upset thus destroying the profit margin.

Really small time, you could make some money off poultry. Selling eggs and chicks can offset costs of feed for your breeder flock. Free ranging is a great way to help offset costs as well. You can also sell started pullets, consider selling some as meat/egg producers, or raise a specialty breed hard to find in your area.

Could also buy ALOT of chicks from hatchery and re-sell at a higher price on CL- (happens a lot)

All in all, consider your lands' ability to support each type of livestock, look into real costs to feed, house, medicate/treat illness, rotate pasture, and really look into WHERE you will buy your feed and at what costs. Look into where you will get your basic supplies and fencing needs, feeding supplies, medical supplies, and even into what kind of veterinarians are in the area.

 It can be hard to find a ruminate vet in an area dominated by horses and dog/cat owners. Vice/versa it can be hard to find a vet for horses in a ruminate dominated market.
Check your potential area for mobile vet services too- if you ever need one, you'll be glad you're in a place where one is available.

Oh, and maybe rabbits? Again they are pretty much for show or meat, so....

Tough to limit yourself to species not used for meat- REALLY will cut into profitability potential. Like another poster mentioned, nearly all livestock has food potential and someone, somewhere, will eventually find your product appetizing.


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## Bitterroot (Jan 8, 2013)

exotica said:
			
		

> but will such things die in demand? like the poor alpacas did?


Seems to be the way of things.  What's hot today will be given away a few years from now.  Look at all the past crazes.  Emu, alpacas, etc.

I've yet to see anyone claim they're making a decent living off livestock/farming anymore.  At least, not the little guys.

Personally, I'm picking animals I like and selling a few here and there.  If I make any cash or manage to break even on the feed bill that's awesome.  But I'm letting my love of the animals come first, not the love of money.  If you get into it just for money, you're setting yourself up for heartbreak, IMO.


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

i see a lot of people though they do have nice houses and nice living off of animals


Right now i do make a  nice living i admit but to be honest ? I hate my life , i hate the business, ive worked for other people also i hate that, I have money I could easily invest into something but i mean id eventually have to turn it around and make a living from it or we would all starve lol 

I would like a nice life the way i have right now money wise i just hate it. I just know if i could find some sort of animal related business with all the $$ invested would be great.

Ive seen people purchase hundred thousand dollar show horses and all kinds of expensive stock. Eventually after making a nice living id love to branch off and get into more risky animals but start off small.


My issue with meat is just cause i do like love cows love pigs love everything but as long as it is humanly dipsatched i could live with it. I have meat eating dogs so i mean it is reality i feed my dogs/cats raw anyway.


It seems like there will always be a demand for certain sheep also.


Id also purchase a place that would be best suitable for such a farm.


Ive kept all kinds of puultry ducks geese turkey and bred parrots i had a lot of fun doing it as a hobby i found everything very easy to keep because i just let them out during the day with a guard animal and never suffered any losses. This was just for fun as a hobby i didnt want to make profit i just wanted pets. 

My parents raised buffalo (water), mixed horned cattle, goats, pigs but this was more than 40 years ago when they were kids.


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

bitterroot are beef cattle the big guys?


a dream would be something like dogs, or horses but that is just not realistic. Unless someone gives me a world winning lipazanner stallion as a gift or a dog that won the ring 3 title of france lol


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## BrownSheep (Jan 8, 2013)

It sounds like you want to make a career of livestock instead of just some extra cash that most of us do it for. I have to agree with what some of the others posted about registered stock. More expensive with initial start up but better selling prices along as its a desirable breed.


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

is start up usually about 100k? can one person u think do it themsleves? a dainty woman even? lol I was hoping for hardy strong animals. Highland and longhorns really appeal to me as well as some sheep. 


I see what u guys mean registered stock kinda gives us the proof we have legit animals and will make it much more easy to sell as long as our animals are healthy of course.


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## bonbean01 (Jan 8, 2013)

I believe I understand what you want...I also made a good living as a legal secretary, but totally hated the stress and wanted to make a living off my 15 acres that at the time I had my pleasure horses on.  Researched many ideas, but truly, there is not a lot of money to be made in livestock...and if you are against livestock for meat...well...your options are limited.

Hair sheep are great and we raise them and chickens and a pond of catfish, a young orchard, and do veggie gardening.  Make a living off that???  Nope...but we are feeding ourselves and friends, but then again...it is meat and eggs we raise...so, guess that is not for you.  By the way hair sheep are also known as meat sheep...doesn't mean you have to eat them, but someone else will, or their offspring.  

Good to dream big...but reality comes into it too.  Hope you find what makes you happy


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 8, 2013)

Might I suggest a somewhat 'themed' type of business?

I know of a woman promoting 'sustainable living'- she only has a bit over an acre, but has small pigs, all types of poultry in smaller amounts, and goats. She holds classes that she charges entry to, that teach people how to use their land to its full potential, how to raise and ethically process all types of poultry for personal consumption, and she is working to get into bee's and gardening as well.

She makes a very paltry living, but IS making a few dollars. Her animals mostly free range, she does supplement with feed. She uses CL,  Facebook and word of mouth for advertising (all free!).

I guess if you were to create a business around different models (could be sustainable living, organic living, free range living, etc) that included being able to sell your animals, it could work. Depends on how much time and money you are willing to spend.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 8, 2013)

> there is not a lot of money to be made in livestock...and if you are against livestock for meat...well...your options are limited.


Exactly right.

And as someone once put it to me, "Just so you know, aint nothing in farming money falling from the sky."

I do not want to discourage you or tell you you can do it, but you have to have an open mind thru it all. And really the only way you can make a living off of animals is to have a WHOLE LOT of land you can run them on. If you have to feed feed to them, then your chances of making a living are next to nothing.

And again, registered animals is the best way to go and honestly, meat animals are also one of your best choices. The milk industry is not alot of money and a LOT of work. I'm not so sure about fiber though.


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

why are meat animals a lot less work? just curious


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 8, 2013)

With dairy animals you must milk them. I have talked to many people that grew up or worked in dairies and they all hated it and everyone of them tells me that they will never milk a goat or cow again. Ever. It takes so much time, so much work, you have no time, you always hurt from the aches and pains, you can never go away even for the weekend, etc.

Fiber is a little less but you have to shear at least once a year, sometimes more. Alot of times fiber animals have lots of issues with mites or lice or related issues due to the hair. 

Meat animals you only need to feed. They are much less work.

In the time it takes you to milk 10 goats you could feed 200 goats. More time on your hands, less work, less money to start-up and maintain, etc

Of course you will need to do the normal stuff like meds, worming, hooves, etc depending on the animals. But for the extra things meat animals are much easier and require less work, less money into them, to start-up, less money to maintain them, and all that means more money in your pocket. 

I think someone else said this but hogs may be a way to go. hogs take nearly no work and if you have good breeding stock then you can make some big bucks.


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

i see so here is what i gathered from you guys

Meat animals is the most easy 

land is the key factor more land the better so they can live from the land 

Registered stock

So far cattle sounds the best a type of meat cattle. lots of land that is registered. Ignoring everything else right now as the small animals are just hobby. So large resgstired meat beef stock. Things that can't really go out because everyone always will eat them.

Thank you everyone for your responses i have learned a lot. I think meat is the way to go probably if someone wanted a career out of it.


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 8, 2013)

Like others have said, you would need to get into meat to at least make money off culls. 

I got into small livestock again with a Jacob ram someone gave to me and some Angora goats I got in a package deal. Next thing I know, a co-op contacted me about goat milk, so I got into dairy again. Then some people contacted me about goat meat. So I butchered excess goats. They wanted more meat, I bought some wethers and resold for a profit. Then they wanted more meat ... You see where this is going.

People need to eat and there are people around here that make money off small beef and meat sheep herds. It's not a lot, they tend to be weekend/hobby farmers, but enough to pay for their animals plus a little extra.

I never planned on doing meat goats, but that was where the demand was, so I rose to meet it (no pun intended). Toyota, the auto manufacturing company, originally started off with textiles and looms in Japan in the late 1800s. Then they took a chance on automobiles.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 8, 2013)

Yes, imo, meat animals are by FAR the easiest to care for and deal with.

Land is THE key to it all. You can not and will not make anything if they can not live off the land. Period.

Yep. That brings the most money esp if you can sell them as registered breeding stock.

Cattle is probably one of, if not the best, bets. I would think that them or hogs are best for your purpose.  

Best of luck on whichever route you do choose.


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## that's*satyrical (Jan 8, 2013)

If you could get the land to grow a certain type of feed preferably non-gmo or organic and charge reasonable prices for it and sell it local I'll bet you would make a killing. Good feed is REALLY hard to find. There are a lot of people moving towards the sustainable lifestyle because they don't like all the garbage in the food nowadays and they don't want to feed garbage to their animals either. But local/organic/non-gmo feed is very hard to find. You could keep whatever animals you liked on the side and not have to worry about purchasing extra feed for them because you are growing it yourself. Therefore you will be able to make a profit off of them since feed is one of the biggest costs associated with raising animals. Also whatever products you chose to produce from your animals that you were feeding organically could be sold as organic products at a higher cost as well. You could also keep bees on your land it would increase your yields and honey is one of the few commodities you will make a decent profit on. It's not very tightly regulated yet either. Just a thought.


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

only problem with feed is the planting and harvesting lol


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## boykin2010 (Jan 8, 2013)

What about Chickens?

I specialize in breeding rare and exotic breeds of chickens. I sell hatching eggs, chicks, and juveniles year round.  The chickens by FAR pay for themselves. I make more money off my chickens every year then I do my whole flock of registered sheep....  Chickens take up very little space and do not eat as much....


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

chicken would be a dream but i always saw them as a hobby are yours meat chickens?


was more thinking heratige turkey



I have chickens right now actually and a pair of geese they are very easy to care for but i didnt think it was posssible to make a living from them.


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## boykin2010 (Jan 8, 2013)

No, not meat chickens! These breeds are very very rare and are just for breeding stock. Some of the chickens I have, I am one of only 2 people in the entire US with them. Others are more popular but you still wouldn't want to eat a chicken that is worth that much. 

Bred heritage turkeys for a while... Just got out of that business. They were fun for a while but they only lay eggs a small portion of the year unlike chickens. Plus they eat more


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

thanks i sent u a pvt message


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## SheepGirl (Jan 8, 2013)

I will make $30/ewe this year selling commercial lambs & wool. That's with non-registered, crossbred stock. By 2015 I will be making $120/ewe by selling commercial lambs & wool. Click here to read my business plan & budgets.

Remember the economies of scale. If you can buy feed in bulk, do it. If you can buy hay in bulk, do it. If you can buy supplies you need in bulk, do it. Having more animals means you can make more money. If you pasture your animals, your feed is essentially free (with the exception of the mortgage & property taxes), so you can afford to have lower producing animals (which also means they need less feed inputs because their nutritional needs won't be high). IF you choose to dry lot your stock, you WILL need extremely high producing animals because you can't afford anything less, due to their feed inputs. High production stock will generally give you more babies, more lbs of product, and be more feed efficient (more product with less feed). Buy the best stock you can afford from reputable breeders with production data, regardless of what species you choose.


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

ty sheepgirl what does dry lotting stock mean? 


Also is this what you do as a career? by yourself?


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## SheepGirl (Jan 8, 2013)

Dry lot means a dirt pen (or it can even be concrete, gravel, etc), but YOU provide the feed to the animal. All of it--hay, grain, minerals. There is no grazing or foraging whatsoever.

You need to check your local laws to see if you need an AFO permit to dry lot stock.

Not really a 'career' but I raise my sheep as a business. My goal as a business is to make a profit. It's just me and my sheep living with my parents lol. (I'm 18.) But yes, I take care of them myself. My parents & brothers know NOTHING about sheep. Other than that they are cute and fluffy lol.


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## exotica (Jan 8, 2013)

how do you bring your sheep indoors? and protect them form predators?


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## SheepGirl (Jan 8, 2013)

My sheep just have an 8x8 shelter that is 4' tall. They barely use it. They use the shade it makes, though. But now that it's winter they are mainly found laying out in the sun.







And I do nothing for predator protection except we have a 4' high woven wire fence. No electric. We don't have bears, cougars, coyotes, etc as predators. The only potential predator we would have is our neighbor's pitbull. But they've been keeping a good eye on her since my sheep moved from my neighbor's farm to mine. Which I appreciate. She's also fat & old so even if she tried to come after my sheep I don't think she could because of the fence.


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## goodolboy (Jan 9, 2013)

When it comes to sheep, you'll make your profit off the second lamb. The first lamb will only pay for the maintance of the ewe. If the ewe isn't producing twins, your not making money. I love raising sheep, but if they're not making you money, they're just pets. So a good culling program is also important to making money.

I read back in the post to buy the best you can afford. I agree completely. I didn't start that way, and I payed the price. Now we only have registered stock, and sell breeding stock. Much more profitable.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 9, 2013)

exotica said:
			
		

> is start up usually about 100k? can one person u think do it themsleves? a dainty woman even? lol I was hoping for hardy strong animals. Highland and longhorns really appeal to me as well as some sheep.
> 
> 
> I see what u guys mean registered stock kinda gives us the proof we have legit animals and will make it much more easy to sell as long as our animals are healthy of course.


THing about having registered stock is you are setting up your farm for a more diverse client base.  You can sell the best of your stock, especially females, as replacement animals.  The best males can be sold as breeding stock. THese will bring more money.  The adults cost the same to feed all year, wether you are raising their offspring for meat or as quality registered animals.  Most the males would be castrated and sold for meat and then females that have breed faults can also be sold for meat. by having better qualilty stock you will get a better price for them even when sold for meat.  


I vote for sheep and a few cattle.  In our area suffolk and hampshire purebred and crosses are pretty big business.  They are meat sheep, but also are big at the fairs as show animals for 4H/FFA kids.  Being a big sheep and more of a show sheep, they do require more feed.


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## goodolboy (Jan 9, 2013)

We started with Sufolks. Just to put meat in the freezer. We found that the high maintance of this breed was too much for us to have a large flock with full time jobs. That's the main reason we settled on the Katahdins. The wool breeds definately produce the bigger lambs, they were just going to be too much trouble for us.

I do agree that the better the stock, the higher the price you'll get. We don't band any of our ram lambs, we have found over the years that they will put on wieght allittle faster if you leave them intact. Also some people want the lambs intact for slaughter. The last two years in a row, we have had the highest price for our lambs at New Holland for the week we took them. So the better stock has payed off for us.


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## that's*satyrical (Jan 9, 2013)

20kids brings up a good point. It is probably also dependent on the area. You might want to research what the demand is for in your area right now.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 9, 2013)

Growth rate and multiple births for anmials that have more than one offspring is very genetic. So do your homework.  One could argue a good feeding program is also an influence, but first you have to have genetics that can produce.    I have read that sheep especially can be very heavily influinced by genetics when it comes to the number of lambs.  I was reading report about a farm that was culling heavy and were consistantly getting triplets on their sheep.


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## goodolboy (Jan 9, 2013)

Yea, I would have to agree. Genetics and flushing a ewe before you put the rams in is a big factor to muliple births.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 9, 2013)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> Growth rate and multiple births for animals that have more than one offspring is very genetic. So do your homework.  One could argue a good feeding program is also an influence, but first you have to have genetics that can produce.


x2 and very true


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## Fluffygal (Jan 17, 2013)

that's*satyrical said:
			
		

> 20kids brings up a good point. It is probably also dependent on the area. You might want to research what the demand is for in your area right now.


This is a key point in any business being started up. Location is important as much as knowing what is the goods you want to provide will get in your local market.
Is your market able to support the goods you are offering?
With Internet a lot of small businesses also make profit selling on line. Finding good reputable shippers is important for on line business. Going this route you need to research what the overall average is for the products/animals you will be offering, what the laws are that affect the logistics of moving your goods to your customer. 

With the economy not so great anymore most folks are concerned with the value they are getting for their money. Is the purchase worth their hard earned cash? 
These days it is hard for small businesses to get going but still doable. Statistically it takes 3 to 5 years to build a business and this is based on before the economy went south.  

Also, keep in mind that should you want to add dairy in your farm future that Raw Milk is illegal in many US states to sell. Any food products made with raw milk are also treated as illegal. The USDA is geared toward big factory farms and push pasterization big time. I got into goats because I am moving toward healthier life style and want to raise my own food for family. I want raw milk but only way to get it is by having my own dairy goat. 

I live north of Houston, TX and the main goat for sale in my are are the Boars for meat. This breed ranges in price depending on whether the stock is registered, pure but unregistered, or mixed. The second most popular goats I see are the small breeds such as NDs and Pygmies that work well for folks with limited space. Prices on goats range from $50.00 to over $400.00. 

The area I live in is very diverse with many different kinds of ethnic and national groups due to alot of the big Global / International companies in and around Houston. So there is a very diverse market place here.

This area is still doing good due to the Oil Industry. If anything happens to that we will be in the same boat as folks up north.


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