# Goat owner-wanna-be quesions!



## HooliganMe (Aug 15, 2012)

Hello! I'm new here. I want to get a goat or two possibly, and i figured i would start by figuring out what breed i am going to get. It will have to be a milker, because any animal of ours have to give back in some way. Dad says.  I am leaning toward Alpine or LaMancha. Would you mind giving the pros and cons and how much i should expect to pay for a quality goat? I do not plan on showing it, so i don't know if that affects the price. 
Thanks in advance!
 ~*~HoolingaMe~*~


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Aug 15, 2012)

HI!  

Wecome to BYH!!

I have nigeran dwarfs, so I cant say about which breed would be better for you- although ND's give a good amount of milk for their size.

I think Lamanchas are cute, but I hear they needs their ears cleaned often (I try not to have too many higher than usual maintenance animals!). Havent had Alpines either, so I cant comment on them.

I have had a Saannen, and she produced alot of milk and she was a good girl, so nothing negative to say about that breed.

Do make sure you investigate the prices on milking equipment, sanitation supplies (for equipment and udders and the actual milk, depending on if you plan to pasturize the milk.) as well as the cost of a milking stand (milk stanchion). 

Try to find a goat that has good udders and has been trained to be good when milked, and that may affect the price. depending on your area, you could pay anywhere from $150 to 350 for a quality doe.

Best of luck and Im glad your dad is cool enough to consider letting you have a goat- but remember, you cant have just one- they are herd animals and NEED to have a goat companion. 

Hope you are not offended by the way I am talking to you, you sound like you may be a younger person (under 16?), so as  a parent of younger persons', Im trying to help you out. Parents LOVE when their children fully investigate something like this and when you can answer all the questions a parent has, and have thought up solutions to possible problems, and prepared ahead, it really, really helps thing to go your way!


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## HooliganMe (Aug 15, 2012)

Yes, i am under 16. I wanted chickens and my dad said "do the research" So i did, and know i have 12 chickens.  I'm hoping this comes out the same way.


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## SarahFair (Aug 15, 2012)

I dont have either of those breeds but I do have a Oberhasli mix that is the most personable goat Ive ever come across. 
If Im outside she is right next to me.. even when I go inside she usually tries to follow. 


Look for a good personality along with the other milking traits!
...and they do sell minis of some breeds as well


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## TGreenhut (Aug 15, 2012)

My experience with Alpines is that they can be kind of mean. Not necessarily to humans (although sometimes) but to other goats. I sold my Alpines because they were using their horns  to injure my other goats. Alpines produce a lot of milk, though.

My experience with LaManchas were that they are EXTREMELY loving and sweet, but they are also very smart so they know how to get _out_ of the pasture, get _into_ the feed rooms, and even let themselves out of the stalls! You'd need a good fence or shock wire.

I specialize in Nubians now because I think they are very very sweet, easy-going, great milkers, and darn cute!!!  (But they are really loud and cry for me constantly because they want food and love/attention. I don't mind it though!)


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## HooliganMe (Aug 15, 2012)

Hmmm...Do you think and Alpine would be mean to another Alpine? I am think of getting a female and a wethered male.


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## SkyWarrior (Aug 15, 2012)

I have three LaManchas and one Nigerian cross.  The LaManchas are by far the sweetest critters.  So far--knock wood--no ear problems.

Any goat can be an escape artist.  Look at the definition of "escape artist" in the dictionary and you will find a picture of a goat.    I've had my girls get out precisely once because I didn't fix the fence.  You bet I had it fixed the next day!

Welcome aboard!


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## TGreenhut (Aug 15, 2012)

Also, If you are going to get goats, buy a book or two on raising goats and know some good websites you can turn to for help. One of the books I have found helpful is called "How to Raise Goats" by Carol A. Amundson. A website that I constantly use for help on almost ANYTHING is Fiascofarm.com.

I would highly suggest (especially if you want milk) to buy goats ONLY from tested CAE (Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis) and CL (Caseous Lymphadentitis) negative herds. Know about these diseases and how to prevent them before you get goats because it can be quite scary if you end up with a herd of CAE or CL positive goats.

Some people don't mind horns, but I have found that they are a pain. I would recommend you consider buying goats that were disbudded because horns can be dangerous and difficult.

Also, read up about certain health care such as deworming goats and vaccinating goats because these kind of things are very important and new goat owners sometimes don't realize all that a goat needs.

Good luck and I hope you are able to get goats. They are amazing creatures! 

**All things "goat" are very debatable, though. These are _my_ opinions.


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## TGreenhut (Aug 15, 2012)

HooliganMe said:
			
		

> Hmmm...Do you think and Alpine would be mean to another Alpine? I am think of getting a female and a wethered male.


If they have grown up together, or lived together for awhile, I'm sure they would be fine together. Just don't buy them from seperate places because then they would probably fight establishing "who's boss". Yet all goats do that to new herd members.


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## HooliganMe (Aug 15, 2012)

Ok, thanks all! What is the basic "stuff" needn't in goat keeping? eg feed, minerals, hay, ect. And do i have to do anything special to the goat/milk to sell  the milk?


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Aug 15, 2012)

HooliganMe said:
			
		

> Ok, thanks all! What is the basic "stuff" needn't in goat keeping? eg feed, minerals, hay, ect. And do i have to do anything special to the goat/milk to sell  the milk?


THATS a BIG question!! And youll get lots of different answers....

They need clean water, housing that wont leak or blow away, fresh quality hay or feed pellets, minerals, baking soda, room to roam around like pasture (must be escape proofed)

They need CD&T vaccinations, some kind of wormer (herbal, plant or chemical) regular hoof trims (about every 6 to eight weeks).

If youre gonna milk, youll need a way to sanitize/sterilize your stuff, a milk pail, a milking stand, a strainer for the milk, a way to pasturize the milk if you are going to pasturize, glass jars for the milk.

As for selling the milk- you will have to check your state and local laws since MOST states have made selling raw goat milk from your home illegal. That can be gotten around in different ways though depending on your marketing. For instance- look up the laws first, but, most people can sell the raw milk if you CLEARLY state it is NOT for human consumption and is for animals ONLY, or for making soaps and stuff like that. 

Some states allow people to join a co-op where each person basically pays 'rent' on a goat in a herd and are then entitled to some of the milk that goat gives.

Keep asking questions!!


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Aug 15, 2012)

Almos forgot!!

How do you plan to get your goat to produce milk? 

Are you buying one already in milk? If so, ask to try that goats actual milk to be sure you like it- not all goats make the same tasting milk!

If your goat is NOT in milk, you will have to breed it to get the goat to make milk. 

Are you ready to experience kidding (goat giving birth)? Do you have access to a pregnant goat or access to a buck that can impregnate your goat?

You will also have to breed your goat at some point to keep it producing milk over a period of time.

It might work out better for you to get 2 does, that way they can take turns having babies and being milked. You can also sell the babies as bottle babies and get some money to keep feeding your does.

Do some research, check out how long it takes to have kids and the milking process, figure out a time scale for milk production and how you will manage milking while in school or if you go on a trip.

Im looking forward to hearing what you work out.


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## HooliganMe (Aug 15, 2012)

pridegoethb4thefall- Thanks! Can a goat be on a stake and leash? because we used to have a shetland pony and we used that with her. Just wondering if that would work with a goat too.


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## TGreenhut (Aug 15, 2012)

HooliganMe said:
			
		

> Ok, thanks all! What is the basic "stuff" needn't in goat keeping? eg feed, minerals, hay, ect. And do i have to do anything special to the goat/milk to sell  the milk?


You can't sell goat milk without saying it is for "Animal Consumption ONLY", at least in CA. Even if it's intended for people use, you have to say that  .

I let my goats have free choice loose minerals (specially formulated for dairy goats- "Sweetlix") and free choice baking soda always. In the summer the grass is dry so I allow them to have free choice good quality grass hay (as much as they can eat) and twice to three times a week I feed alfalfa hay. In the winter when there is good forage, I give a flake of hay per two goats in the evening. 
My wether gets one measured cup of grain each day, a handful of dried beet pulp, a tsp of Ammonium chloride, a squirt of "Healthy Coat" vitamin formula, and a tsp of herbal dietary supplement.
Does that are *not* in milk get one pound of grain a day (3 cups), a cup of dried beet pulp, a cup of black oil sunflower seeds, a tsp of herbal dietary supplement, and a squirt of "Healthy Coat" vitamin formula.
Does that *are* in milk get one to four pounds of grain a day (3-12 cups) depending on body condition, a cup of dried beet pulp, a cup of black oil sunflower seeds, a tsp of herbal dietary supplement, and a squirt of "Healthy Coat" vitamin formula.


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## TGreenhut (Aug 15, 2012)

HooliganMe said:
			
		

> pridegoethb4thefall- Thanks! Can a goat be on a stake and leash? because we used to have a shetland pony and we used that with her. Just wondering if that would work with a goat too.


I know someone who did that and their goat strangled itself.


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Aug 15, 2012)

HooliganMe said:
			
		

> pridegoethb4thefall- Thanks! Can a goat be on a stake and leash? because we used to have a shetland pony and we used that with her. Just wondering if that would work with a goat too.


I wouldnt do it- too many bad things could happen. What if it got wound up and couldnt get water? What if a predator got in? Your goat couldnt even run away.

Also, goats NEED a goat friend, so a single goat is a very lonely, unhappy goat. They have died of loneliness you know...they are herd animals.


So..... have you thought about your milk production plans?


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## treeclimber233 (Aug 15, 2012)

I tie my goats out on a long rope and chain thingy.  It works well if you have a fairly heavy chain that is at least the length of their body.  That way they don't end up with the rope wrapped around their back leg.  One of my goats TRIES to get the rope wrapped around her back leg.  I don't leave them tied out if I am not home.  Too much risk of something getting them.  I have a guardian dog but he won't stay with them if they are out of the field.  I guess he is too busy making sure nothing is "over at the neighbors house that is going to get his babies".  I have read they think they need to guard as far as they can see.  Anyway if you tie your goat out it will only take about an hour and they are full and hollaring to go back to the barn anyway.  If you tie them out make POSITIVELY SURE they will have access shade at all times if they want it.  I had one that almost overheated on a day that I thought was just a nice sunny day.  It was too hot for her to be tied in the sun!!!!!!!


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## HooliganMe (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm a little conflicted  with the chain verses a pen. But i could do either, so probably the pen.

@pridegoethb4thefall_ I am planning on getting two. I am not sure about milking. I will most likely buy it already milking. How long will they stay milking before you have to breed them again?

Tgreennut- What do the beet bulp, herbal supplement, and the  "healthy coat" supplement do?


Another quesion(s) (bear with me!) how much money do you think it takes to own a two goast per month/year? and, could i let my goats browse all day or a limited time? And could i let them out without a pen/leash while being supervised.


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## Fluffygal (Aug 16, 2012)

Cost will depend on the size of the goats you choose and individual needs.
1 Bag of 50lb feed now costs around $20.00 where I live.
1 square bale of good quality hay now runs up between $14 to $16 dollars depending on the feedstore you buy it at.
There are also individuals that will sell for less if you buy hay in bulk.

3 small goats (pygmy and/or ND) can eat a square bale a week and a food bag a month.

These are small goats. I just got a Nubian so am not up on what a large goat will go through yet.
If you have access to pasture with weeds and underbrush that is fenced in then you could let the goats browse there which would reduce feed cost as they would fill up on fresh browse and eat less of the hay and grain.

I would not free range in an unfenced area due to neighbors dogs that run loose or risk that my goat could wander onto the neighbors property and cause grief.


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## SkyWarrior (Aug 16, 2012)

Fluffygal said:
			
		

> Cost will depend on the size of the goats you choose and individual needs.
> 1 Bag of 50lb feed now costs around $20.00 where I live.
> 1 square bale of good quality hay now runs up between $14 to $16 dollars depending on the feedstore you buy it at.
> There are also individuals that will sell for less if you buy hay in bulk.


 

OMG.  That's amazingly expensive.

I buy hay by the ton for $110 to $130 and feed at about $11/50 lb bag.


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 16, 2012)

When I only had 2 nigerians (adult) and 1 nubian (baby), we only went through one bale of hay every 2 or three weeks and one bag of grain lasted me about 2 months. Letting them range often saved me about 1/2 the price in hay. 

Hay here right now is $14.00 a bale for good alfalfa and goes up to $19.50 during the last bit of winter/ early spring before the new stuff is cut.

Goat food #50 bag is around $16.00 or so (up or down a few cents or a dollar or 2 depending on how much the grain prices flux).

I did find that I prefered to add Black Oil Sunflower Seeds when we were getting ready to show our nubian at the fairs....it added a really nice sheen to her coat. That just ran me $26.00 for a #40 bag the other day, though for just 2 goats you could buy it in a #20 bag and it only takes a little, a few tablespoons or 1/8 of a cup per goat to look good.

So that means I was spending about $30 a month.....sometimes it was closer to $25, sometimes $40 or more....the Boss lasted several months so I only bought it occasionally. 

You could call the local feed stores and ask about how much alfalfa hay prices flux through the year and ask for a price on a #50 bag of general goat food....You could save money by buying a 3 way or 4 way grain supplement also (Corn, Oats, Barley and Molasses are typically what you would find in those) as before they had goat rations, the farmers typically fed everyone the 3 or 4 way type of grain mix. ( I think that runs around $11.00 or so here)

Don't forget minerals, for a few goats a #20 bag of minerals (Magnum Milk by sweetlix) cost me $18 or so, but would likely last you 6 or more months. I personally include the price of minerals in my book keeping under food products.


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## HooliganMe (Aug 16, 2012)

I looked at my local fleet farm, and they didn't have much this is what i found- goat mineral (it isn't feed, or is it?) and a mineral block. and what is this? http://fleetfarm.com/mff/search/?q=goat&searchSubmit.x=0&searchSubmit.y=0&searchSubmit=submit


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## breezy B ranch (Aug 16, 2012)

I have a Saanen her wether, a nigerian wether and an Alpine doe. The Saanen is very mellow and gives about a gallon a day. Her milk is also a bit creamier than the Alpine. Are Alpine is friendly with us but is not very loving. She is fine with the wethers ( she has even nursed the nigerian a few times here and there even  though he is 2years old and not hers!) She however is not impressed with the Saanen doe at all! It took a while for them to get along and it is just a tolerance for each other not a friendship. The Saanen was away for a while in the kidding pen and we had to start all over with the fighting when she came back.  I cannot tell you about our Alpine when she was born though we got her when she was 2 so I don't know if she was a bottle baby or dam raised so I'm not sure if that would make a difference with her personality or not. Good luck!! We love our goats and it is great to always have a supply of milk!


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## HooliganMe (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks guys! $30 a month isn't that bad. I figured out a #25 bag of minerals cost $18. BOSS is $18 also. and that would last me a LOOOONG time, right?


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## Fluffygal (Aug 16, 2012)

I don't think it matters whether bottle feed or dam raised.
Oreo was dam raised by her mom Bella and is super friendly. I made a point of interacting with her everyday. Bella did not mind this at all as long as I was not trying to touch her. (Bella is very standoffish, despite my efforts to get her to be more friendly) 

I think that as long as you interact with them daily and play with them they grow up friendly.


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## SheepGirl (Aug 16, 2012)

My (dam raised) lambs got friendly real quick when they figured out I brought out the grain. Now they're the only ones getting it (I hand feed it to them so the ewes can't shove them away and take their grain) and they run up to me when I go out to feed, thinking I have grain.


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## TGreenhut (Aug 16, 2012)

HooliganMe said:
			
		

> Tgreennut- What do the beet bulp, herbal supplement, and the  "healthy coat" supplement do?


It's technically just extra stuff because my goats are spoiled show babies  . The beet pulp is full of sugar and helps keep the weight on the goats. The herbal supplement helps with digestion and a "healthy inside". The healthy coat supplement supplies the goats with vitamins such as Vitamin E and B12 (CA is deficient in Vitamin E) which help the goats maintain a shiny coat, bright eyes, and perky personality.


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## TGreenhut (Aug 16, 2012)

Fluffygal said:
			
		

> I don't think it matters whether bottle feed or dam raised.
> Oreo was dam raised by her mom Bella and is super friendly. I made a point of interacting with her everyday. Bella did not mind this at all as long as I was not trying to touch her. (Bella is very standoffish, despite my efforts to get her to be more friendly)
> 
> I think that as long as you interact with them daily and play with them they grow up friendly.


x2 I prefer dam raising kids because its the natural way, it requires less work, and the babies learn how to browse, drink water, and eat other things like hay faster. AND my kids have always been extremely sweet!


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## SkyWarrior (Aug 17, 2012)

HooliganMe said:
			
		

> Thanks guys! $30 a month isn't that bad. I figured out a #25 bag of minerals cost $18. BOSS is $18 also. and that would last me a LOOOONG time, right?


That sounds a bit too low to me.  In the winter, you're unlikely to feed them on grass unless you're in the south.  My four go through about 1/3rd a bale a day without grazing (no room--long story on that), so if you don't graze, run out of grass or have tough winters, you're going to run about a bale a week for two goats.  Plus grain.

If you buy 4 bales a month at the OMG price of $14, you're paying $68 plus about a bag of feed at $16 -- which is roughly $84.  Goat minerals will last about a month or two.  So, if a month, try about $100/month.  That doesn't include any veterinary costs.

Honestly, how can you all afford hay at $14/bale?


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## HooliganMe (Aug 17, 2012)

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!! We are getting a dog, so the goat will have to wait. Good thing is, it says specifically it gets along great with goats!


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 17, 2012)

> That sounds a bit too low to me.  In the winter, you're unlikely to feed them on grass unless you're in the south.  My four go through about 1/3rd a bale a day without grazing (no room--long story on that), so if you don't graze, run out of grass or have tough winters, you're going to run about a bale a week for two goats.  Plus grain.


What I posted earlier is just what I personally went through with my goats. 

I had, at the time, 2 full grown nigerians that only got less than a 1/2 cup of grain a day...one was a wether and only got a mouthful or two. My girl wasn't producing, so a dry nigerian doe only needs a little grain, just enough to stay in good condition. Bambi was a growing baby so she got grain too. At just a few ounces a day, #50 lasts a very long time, so you don't count the expense of the whole bag every month, either the month you buy it or average out how much you use a month and divide the cost.

 Together Joey and Janie only ate about 1/2 flake of hay per day. Once I added the nubian baby I increased the hay to 1 flake a day and as she grew added more. By the time she was grown we were using 2 bales a month . The food lasted a pretty good amount of time and my animals were in great health. I have always had some waste hay too so they aren't starving......when they waste is more, I cut back some, when it seems to be mostly gone I offer more. I have found that certain bales and flakes stretch farther or last longer.

The OP was asking how much it cost to feed 2 goats....This is how much I averaged when I had 2 adult nigerians and one baby nubian. I didn't add the cost of minerals or wormers, etc...I am in central CA so I don't have any green grass right now, but the goats do love the dry (and some green) weeds as snacks. I also have some trees they browse on occasionally.


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