# Hard udder question - need some help



## catholder (Jan 9, 2010)

We are new goat owners and we just had our first doe born on Tuesday morning - very healthy and strong little beauty.  Our question is:
How should we milk the mother?
This is NOT a first time Mama - her udder is very tense/hard - we have not milked much out of her thinking that the baby should do the job - this morning (day 4) I went out and felt her udder (still hard) so I went to massage the udder just behind the teat and milk came squirting out of the teat closest to my hand - then she walked away dripping lots of milk.  We see the baby go up to milk but only stays on for a few seconds (seconds!) which seems too short to us - then returns a few minutes later for another snack.
Oh, and the Mama doesn't like the milk stand anymore and screams for her baby... any suggestions to help make her comfortable?  She is a La Mancha/Nubian and is very well behaved on the milk stand unless...  and food is not a motive for her - only her baby - 

As a human who breastfed her babies - I feel like she's in need of some relief - but my husband seems to think that the baby will take care of her mama - Help please - what should we do???

How long should the baby eat at each feeding?

How should we milk the mother?

If we milk the mother do we have to feed that milk back to the baby?

Thank you for reading this!

Catherine


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## samplekasi (Jan 9, 2010)

A single baby will sometimes favor one side and you do not want the mom to become engorged ( it hurt's) When I had a single I kept the unfavored side milked until kid figured out there were 2 then she did the work.  The Doe was not tame but allowed a milk station to ease the discomfort until the kid figured it out then there was NO way to get her on the stand and milk even with hubbie holding both back legs.

Kids will snack alot, just make sure mom is allowing the baby to nurse, not kicking or turning away.


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## Roll farms (Jan 9, 2010)

It sounds to me like her udder is congested.  The mammary tissue gets swollen at freshening, and it gets 'hard' from that.

I milk all our does, and bottle raise, so I can't tell you the *best* way for your situation...but if it were me, I'd milk her out about 2/3 of the way, and take some type of stimulant (peppermint or eucalyptus) cream and rub her udder, really, really massage it, especially up high where it joins the body.  (That is where mine get 'hardest).

I'd do that 2  x a day.

So long as the milk isn't stringy, stinky, bloody, etc. you can go ahead and save it for yourselves.  As long as you leave some for the baby ea. time you milk her out and massage her.

(You might want to milk her COMPLETLY out once, just to make sure you get all the colostrum out of her, before you begin saving any milk...it can ruin a recipe and tastes awful.)

If the milk looks or smells off, or the udder is hot, you might have a case of mastitis...and that's a whole other treatment regimen.


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## catholder (Jan 9, 2010)

Ok - my husband just returned after milking a little from each side and he feels like one side is not producing and that the other is overwhelmed.  I will massage the udder and I mentioned the heat factor and he said the thought is was hot.  If so, what would you suggest? 

Thank you very much for all the help!!


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## Roll farms (Jan 9, 2010)

It could be a plugged teat, we had one who had a 'plug' of hard colostrum in her teat.  My husband grabbed a hold and squeezed that poor girl's teat like he was tring to get the last bit of toothpaste out of a tube (I'm standing there watching, with a grimace, holding my own 'udder' in sympathy) and we heard "ping, ping" from the chunks hitting the bucket, and then ahhhhh...sweet relief, the plug came out and it milked out easy as pie.

Try to milk out that side.  Feel the teat and see if you can 'feel' an obstruction.  If nothing will come out, try massagine that udder half for a while and trying again.

You might take a warm, wet towel or heating pad (with a cover!) and hold it over her udder, that could help loosen things up, too.

If the teat itself looks red, the udder half (or both halves) are hot, or the milk won't go through a mastitis screen, I'd have a vet check her out.

In any other case of illness I'd suggest taking her temp first, but the 2 cases of mastitis we've had, neither doe had a fever.  
BUT, there are many, MANY forms of mastitis with many, MANY different ways of treating it....hence my 'call a vet' suggestion.

Also, if it's NOT mastitis, (just congestion or plugged), you do not want to introduce anything into the udder that's not necessary.

We had no goat vet the first time we encountered it, so I bought the "today" mastitis treatment from a farm store and used that for 5 days, it cleared both of the does up and neither one ever had a repeat.

Again, this is just what I'd do in your case, but I'd go ahead and milk her out completely from both sides, hold a warm compress on her udder for 10 minutes, massage for 10 minutes, and then put the compress on her again for 5-10 minutes.  See if you can tell any difference in a day...if so, it's working...if not, call a vet.

Making sure of course to apply udder balm and dip the teats ea. time you mess w/ the udder.

edited to fix a typo....my brain's sometimes faster than my fingers....


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## Roll farms (Jan 9, 2010)

And it couldn't hurt to read up here:

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/mastitis.htm

That lady knows an awful lot 'bout goatin'.


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## catholder (Jan 9, 2010)

we don't think it's mastitis - but what can you tell me about a congested udder?


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## Roll farms (Jan 9, 2010)

> we don't think it's mastitis - but what can you tell me about a congested udder


I already told you what we do for a congested udder...massage it, massage it, and massage it some more...it takes a few days to work out, but it should be somewhat better after a couple milk outs and massages w/ some form of cream.


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## catholder (Jan 9, 2010)

i understand to massage the udder I was just curious what exactly congested meant  - but I guess i should just use common sense and congested means congested.  
So it makes sense to massage and use warmth on a congested udder - and this is not a bad thing - she just needs to get things moving around in there... right?

I just witnessed the baby nursing on the side that was really full for several minutes and then moved over the the other side that didn't seem to have much milk and she only stayed on for a few seconds, again.  So, the first massage did seem to help - but we just need to get that other side flowing now...

Thanks for your help - I appreciate it!


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## Roll farms (Jan 9, 2010)

The link I posted to fiasco farms' site will explain the difference between mastitis and congested some more, but it's basically just swelling in the mammary tissue from hormones / freshening.

It's not a 'bad' thing at all, more of a nuisance....and fairly common (here)...our heavier milkers all seem to end up being congested at freshening.  Some just their first time, some every time but to a lesser degree.  
Our boers aren't as likely to get congested as the dairy does are.


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## catholder (Jan 9, 2010)

Thank you again - I understand congestion of the udder now and I'm very glad that it is common in heavy milkers - which she is...

Do you milk your Boer? 
I know they are meat goats and we were tricked as first timers and were told that we were getting Nubian/Boer cross and that they would be GREAT milkers... well one had 4 teats and the other barely has teats at all - we butchered  the one with 4 teats and got lots and lots of yummy meat but now we are on the fence with the other - very good temperament I could probably milker her without a stand - but I really want milk...we purchased a pure bred Nubian billy to help improve our herd but i don't want that Boer to get too expensive.

My picture - by my name is our very first birth on our New Mexican farm - 
our farm consists of 2 human boyz, 1 South African Boerboel (puppy), 1 barn kitty, 9 chickens, 9 guinea fowl and 5 goats (Nubian billy, Alpine mix milker, Boer mix doe (?) and our La Mancha/Nubian and baby)

Thank you again for taking the time to chat and explain this stuff for me...

~Peace~


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## Ariel301 (Jan 9, 2010)

You can milk a Boer, but they won't produce like a dairy breed. I've never had one, but have been told they average about six pounds of milk a day...so that's a bit over half a gallon. Not bad, but nothing like the gallon a day that something like a LaMancha would give. Nubians are good milkers, depending on the bloodline.

Four teats is acceptable for a Boer, many of them are that way. It would make milking more difficult though, I would think. 

If she's a really heavy producer and only has one kid, it is probable that she makes more milk than the baby needs to drink. I know with ours, I can't imagine a single kid drinking a gallon a day! I have to milk our girls even when they are nursing. I'd milk yours once a day and keep the milk for yourself, she should still make enough to feed the kid. If she's not liking the milking stand, she will just have to get over it. Perhaps put her in it and let the baby stay near her head so she doesn't have to worry so much about it. 

It's normal for the kids to only nurse a few seconds at a time at very frequent intervals. That's what ours do.


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## Roll farms (Jan 9, 2010)

We milk our boer x dairy...I don't usually bother w/ the pure boer, they don't milk as much as the boer x do.
Also, they generally don't milk as long...it's like they *know* they don't have to pull a 10 month lactation (or longer) like dairy usually will.  They tend to start drying off sooner.
4 teats is usually only a problem if all 4 are functional...makes it a might hard to aim...but we do have some 4 teaters that I milk...


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