# HELP GAGGING MALE GOAT!! **SAD UPDATE**



## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 8, 2012)

Our male goat is sick, He's gagging bad and has a prolapsed rectum, we tried sugar but he gags and makes it worser!! *Is there anything we can do to get him to stop gagging?* We called our vet but he's down with a broken foot. We're waiting for a call from another vet, but i don't hold hope for her....
*Is there anything we can do to ease to pain and calm him down until we get someone out here?*


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## autumnprairie (Jan 8, 2012)

WhiteWaterFarms said:
			
		

> Our male goat is sick, He's gagging bad and has a prolapsed rectum, we tried sugar but he gags and makes it worser!! *Is there anything we can do to get him to stop gagging?* We called our vet but he's down with a broken foot. We're waiting for a call from another vet, but i don't hold hope for her....
> *Is there anything we can do to ease to pain and calm him down until we get someone out here?*


prolapsed rectum sticking 

some say banimine for pain, they should be chiming in hear soon good luck with your goat,


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 8, 2012)

My goat mentor seconds banamine.  They give it to their lambs when they choke.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 8, 2012)

Will banamine stop the gagging and pain? or just pain?
Is it injected or oral?
Can i get it at Tractor Supply?


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 8, 2012)

It is a muscle relaxant and will dope him up a bit. It's injected.    Does he have frothy foamy stuff coming out of his mouth? (those are fun choking session when it happens).  It is from the vet.  Or if you have any friends w/ horses many of them should have it on hand.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 8, 2012)

I only have one, i texted her....Is there anything we could get at the tractor supply? i gave him a baby aspirin....

No he's gagging like he's trying to vomit, but he's been locked up in a room for two days cause of weather...so i don't think he got poisoned.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 8, 2012)

He may be having cud issues.  How often is he doing the gagging thing?


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 8, 2012)

It comes and goes in spells, when he has the spells it's one or two minutes...in between spells 5 or 10 minutes.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 8, 2012)

Does it sound like a wet retching noise (think when a person dry heaves) or does it sound like a drier cough?


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 8, 2012)

wet retching noise......


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 8, 2012)

He may be having issues getting his cud up. If he was choking on something, in my experience it would be constant coughing/retching.  And when they are choking BAD, there is an amazing amount of clear mucus that is produced to help clear out what ever they just inhaled.  

The prolapse will need to be evaluated by the vet. Has to be.  Right now you are seeing it because he is straining his abdominal muscles to get up what ever he's trying to get up.  One of our pigs did this a year ago when she was wrestling with another sow. She pushed her stomach muscles too much and POP, out it came.  With a mix of hemorrhoid cream and aloe we got it to go back in and I guess it formed enough adhesions because we've never seen it again, even during labor.  

I haven't seen the goat, I can't absolutely tell you what to do and other people very well may have better advice. 


To me, it sounds like a cud issue.  I would get him to a vet so they can tube him and possibly remove what ever is causing him to heave.   Goats do throw up their cud on occasion.  If he is not doing the choking mucus thing and is having breathing/resting spells in between episodes I don't THINK it is immediately life threatening.  But he does need to be seen to resolve it.  I'd keep trying vets. Tomorrow morning is probably soon enough.  I'd keep him comfortable. I'd not try putting much in his mouth/down his throat. Too great of a risk of actually choking him.  


Anybody else have any suggestions?


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## MrsDieselEngineer (Jan 8, 2012)

I would encourage him to drink warm molasses water, and I'd remove all food for the present.  You can get Banamine as a paste as well as an injectable.  Both work well.  

I've never dealt with a prolapse before so can't help with that.  Hopefully you can get a vet out there soon.


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## SmallFarmGirl (Jan 8, 2012)

My doe coughs when she gets her cud up. I thought this was normal.  Should I be worried too ???


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 8, 2012)

Well, no vet never showed up....i told our vet she wouldn't come.....we can't get banamine, no friend or friends of friends have any. So we've gave him a aspirin (dissolved in water in a oral syringe) and put some hemorrhoid cream on the prolapse. I think he chewed something(like the wood on the barn walls) and got a piece suck in his cud or something. If he makes it through the night we off to the vet in the morning. (Now to problem is finding something to put him in, to get him the 30 or 40 min drive to the vet(and that's our nearest vet  ))
*
SmallFarmGirl:* I think they mean is coughing up the cud is fine. I worried about that when i first got my cashmere, it's normal (someone correct me if i'm wrong) 
What's not good is when they can't get the cud up....like my bolt i guess. 

I just love that when you need them the vets are nowhere to be found


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## zzGypsy (Jan 8, 2012)

not much else I can offer tonight - when you get to your vet tomorrow see if they've got a partial bottle of banamine you can buy and have on hand.  our vet says don't use the paste because most of the drug doesn't survive the rumen to get in their system, we use injectable only.  you can get syringes at most feed stores or online at the vet supply places.  shot goes subQ, not IM.  can be given IV I think, if you know how... check with your vet.

good luck!


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 8, 2012)

Many goats make a bit of a coughing noise when getting up their cud to chew it.  It sounds like this guy may have swallowed something he shouldn't and is having issues getting it up. 


I hope he makes it. Best of luck to you and keep us posted about the vet.   Ours is a 30 min drive as well.   I have honestly just tarped the back of my van before and bungeed a baby gate to the back of the front seats to avoid helpful front seat driver goats coming up for a visit.  Once you are moving, they mostly lay down and chill out.


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## zzGypsy (Jan 8, 2012)

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> Many goats make a bit of a coughing noise when getting up their cud to chew it.  It sounds like this guy may have swallowed something he shouldn't and is having issues getting it up.
> 
> 
> I hope he makes it. Best of luck to you and keep us posted about the vet.   Ours is a 30 min drive as well.   I have honestly just tarped the back of my van before and bungeed a baby gate to the back of the front seats to avoid helpful front seat driver goats coming up for a visit.  Once you are moving, they mostly lay down and chill out.


I've done this too, but with a buck I worry about the windows...


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 8, 2012)

Transported a nearly 200lb full grown Nubian buck in the back of my van for about 3 hours one way when I picked him up.  If you are worried about him smashing windows then leash him to the seat so he can't reach them.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 9, 2012)

Ok, a little update. 
Checked on bolt, i think he is like our little rooster that got held under the water by our dog and drowned but came back to life....i think bolt has 9 lives....He's still alive and the prolapse is smaller and i think he's stopped gagging!!   I gave him more aspirin and 40 cc's of molasses water.

We have a truck but it's out of gas(need the money for the vet), so it'll be a Nissan altama, I was thinking a tarp or plastic and leashing him to the baby seat holders. Didn't think about the baby gate thing. (thank god we have a baby gate from the dogs)
Yeah,i will be getting some banamine, we will do shots bolt's hard to get paste or anything. we have syringes,  and 22G x 1" needles.  (from when one of the chicken got sick.)


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## autumnprairie (Jan 9, 2012)

WhiteWaterFarms said:
			
		

> Ok, a little update.
> Checked on bolt, i think he is like our little rooster that got held under the water by our dog and drowned but came back to life....i think bolt has 9 lives....He's still alive and the prolapse is smaller and i think he's stopped gagging!!   I gave him more aspirin and 40 cc's of molasses water.
> 
> We have a truck but it's out of gas(need the money for the vet), so it'll be a Nissan altama, I was thinking a tarp or plastic and leashing him to the baby seat holders. Didn't think about the baby gate thing. (thank god we have a baby gate from the dogs)
> Yeah,i will be getting some banato get the med mine, we will do shots bolt's hard to get paste or anything. we have syringes,  and 22G x 1" needles.  (from when one of the chicken got sick.)


  I always use another needle to get the med and another to adminster it. ( so it is a sharp needle)

Good luck I am rooting for you and Bolt


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 12, 2012)

we found a vet to come out, she had a hard time getting the prolapse back and had to use a lot of stitches to hold it. Her saw the food (we feed free choose noble goat and alfafa oat mix hay.) and asked if we'd seen him pee, we hadn't so she say she thinks it's a crystal in his pee that is stuck and he can't pee. So she gave use meds to break it up and anti-inflammatory shots. But it's up in the air if he'll make it....


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## Ms. Research (Jan 12, 2012)

Wishing the best for him.  Hoping he surprises everyone and is back to his ole self in no time.  

K


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 12, 2012)

Change the title of this to ATTN CM :   Buck not peeing.


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## cmjust0 (Jan 12, 2012)

It's easier if I just paste this from another thread...



			
				cmjust0 said:
			
		

> I'm thinking this may be a good thread to re-iterate a treatment that worked for me, and has since worked for at least two others that I shared it with.  I'm going to just list out 'steps,' as it were, for the sake of brevity (which isn't normally one of my stronger suits).
> 
> 1) Clip the pizzle.  It's the little curly-Q that hangs of the tip of the weenis.  I'd suggest a sharp knife, but keep in mind that if you couldn't clip off whatever you're *thinking* is the pizzle with a pair of toenail clippers, you're looking at the wrong thing.
> 
> ...


Something else I'll add is that you should really never, ever feed any goat free-choice bagged feed.  Their primary diet needs to be browse, graze, and hay, and bagged feed should be used to supplement on an as-needed basis, according to body condition.  Males get urinary calculi from an excess of phosphorus in their diet, and bagged feed is typically very high in phosphorus.  Even if feed is balanced 2:1 calcium to phosphorus, too much of it can still lead to UC.

Good luck with him.  Hope he pulls through for ya!


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## cmjust0 (Jan 12, 2012)

Also, just wanted to say that your vet seems like a good one.  To be able to discern potential urinary calculi is something most "normal" vets probably couldn't do, but to go ahead and put the goat on anti-inflammatories without being asked/instructed to do so is almost unheard of.  Keep this vet handy.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 13, 2012)

Thanks,she gave him:
Ammonium chloride, drench @ 2x/day for one week and then 1x/day for one more week. the dose is 6ml
Dexamethasone, can't remember the dose, SQ, 1x/day for 3 days. (i think that's all that she had on the truck.) We have to call her Monday and see if he needs more. 

She gave him the dex shot on Monday,started the drench, and gave him two other shots i didn't see want they were.

He drank water for the first time yesterday and we think he's "peeing" (we found wet spots, but their not bolts normal gusher pee)

Edited to add
They said we needed to catherarize him on wedsday, but it was going to be $250-300 at the vet cloeset to us. (the vet that saw him is 1 hr to 1hr and 45mins away)
So we couldnt do it, and decided to wait it out.


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## autumnprairie (Jan 13, 2012)

WhiteWaterFarms said:
			
		

> Thanks,she gave him:
> Ammonium chloride, drench @ 2x/day for one week and then 1x/day for one more week. the dose is 6ml
> Dexamethasone, can't remember the dose, SQ, 1x/day for 3 days. (i think that's all that she had on the truck.) We have to call her Monday and see if he needs more.
> 
> ...


I ham happy to hear that he is on the mend, you haven't even really got to enjoy your new babies hopefully you will soon? Is you ND Pregnant?


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## cmjust0 (Jan 13, 2012)

WhiteWaterFarms said:
			
		

> Edited to add
> They said we needed to catherarize him on wedsday, but it was going to be $250-300 at the vet cloeset to us. (the vet that saw him is 1 hr to 1hr and 45mins away)
> So we couldnt do it, and decided to wait it out.


Yeah, it would have done more harm than good anyway.  Male goats have a really weird anatomy in their 'crotchal region' which includes a hairpin bend..  No way to catheterize, and attempts to try usually just cause more irritation and swelling, which is ultimately a detriment.  Good thing ya didn't do that. 

Just FYI, he also needs to be on PenG in case this was brought on by a urinary infection (fairly common cause) and/or to prevent a secondary urinary infection from an elevated Ph and urine hanging around too long.  Also, the Dex needs to probably be given for about a week.  And Dex actually kills the immune system and should never be given without an accompanying antibiotic, sooo...PenG, stat!  

Good to hear he's doing better! 

BTW...do me a favor.   Next time you talk to the vet that did all that work, ask if she gave Dex because it made sense to her or if it's something she heard or read somewhere..  So far as I know, my vet "pioneered" that strategy on a little buck I had named Frank, and I've been spreading the word ever since...and it's been working!  Would be kinda cool to hear that it's making the rounds if that's what happened..  And for the record, my vet was about to turn my buck back over to me and just happened to stop and go, "Hey, ya wanna try some dexamethasone?"  It was pretty much top-of-the-head idea, and very much a shot in the dark, but it did the trick!


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 14, 2012)

well, it got really cold and now he's not doing good.....he won't take the meds and just spits them out, and he's not moving around.
i got video of him doing the gagging or whatever it is he's doing. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bku-Qf_7ox8

*autumnprairie:*Yeah, but i have got to see star some. she's bouncing around and has her own little play house, (a sleeping bag hanging from a wall that she goes behind.)

*cmjust0:*
OK, I'll ask, next week we're going to her office to see if we can get more dex shots and show her the video i got. 
On the antibiotic's: 
We had to take a cat to the vet(a different one) with a abscess and they gave him what the vet said was a antibiotic that stay's in the body for a week.
So when the Dr Hargis gave bolt the antibiotic's we thought it was the long lasting stuff. Would it hurt if i gave him some penG from Tsc if she did give him the other? It's the weekend or i'd call her and ask what kind of antibiotic's she gave him.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 15, 2012)

is this what everyone calls penG?
http://www.tractorsupply.com/durvet-reg-pen-aqueous-100-ml-2206759


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 15, 2012)

The link doesn't come up. 


 Just saw your video and that looks more like pain than gagging.  That is most likely him trying to urinate. But with the dogs barking it's hard to tell the exact sounds he's making.  


PenG is Penicillin Procaine G.  It is the 48hr/long lasting Penicillin.


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## fmizula (Jan 15, 2012)

oh that poor little guy!! i hope he feel better!! we recently lost a buck and it was just terrable.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 16, 2012)

Yeah, we tried to shut the dogs up but they wouldn't. 

*Sad update:*
Bolt passed away last night. In the end we couldn't do anything, we got penG but it didn't help.

We are thinking of getting an autopsy to find what happened to him. So maybe if someone's goat shows signs like bolt they can save him, or at lest save the goat pain.


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## Ms. Research (Jan 16, 2012)

My heartfelt condolences for your loss.  Been following this thread, hoping that he would get better.  

So, so sorry.

K


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 16, 2012)

I am SO sorry for your loss. I had been following this and hoping the little guy would pull through.  There is a post somewhere on Urinary calculi.  I would link that video on the post so that people can see an example of some of what to look for.


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## autumnprairie (Jan 16, 2012)

I am so sorry, Star is Bolt's right?


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 16, 2012)

*Ms. Research:* thanks, we were hoping for the best but i had a feeling it would end this way.

*SuburbanFarmChic:* Yeah will do, we called the vet and we can't get a autopsy all places are closed because of Martin Luther king day. and we have no place to put him. So we buried him on his favorite hill. The vet and us think his kidneys stopped working on him on Friday or so, and that was his down fall. So i think the kidney failure was from the Urinary calculi, a secondary urinary infection, or something genetic. We think maybe genetic because we got him at a small livestock auction so we know nothing of his history, his mom wasn't even with him. Also he had a odd bleat that sounded like he was saying "what".
*
autumnprairie* Yes, star is bolt's daughter, so we're happy we have her at lest; But are scared if it is something genetic we could lose her. Star got to see bolt once before he died(when he wasn't sick), she bounced around him it was cute. Star's full name is Bolt's Cashmere Star, she's called star for short.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm sure there can be a genetic predisposition to have a small urethra just as there is a genetic tendency for nearly every other physical trait.  There are also random one shots and UC can be caused by a high grain diet, a random infection, and many other things. 


My guess is he ran up against this once before and wasn't adequately treated and that's why he ended up at the sale.   If you breed Star and get a boy out of her I would just make sure to always add AC to their diet.


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## elevan (Jan 16, 2012)




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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 19, 2012)

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> I'm sure there can be a genetic predisposition to have a small urethra just as there is a genetic tendency for nearly every other physical trait.  There are also random one shots and UC can be caused by a high grain diet, a random infection, and many other things.
> 
> 
> My guess is he ran up against this once before and wasn't adequately treated and that's why he ended up at the sale.   If you breed Star and get a boy out of her I would just make sure to always add AC to their diet.


Yeah i will, the same for any male we get. they're just getting hay and AC.


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