# Jasmine won't eat enough grain!



## jodief100 (Jun 10, 2010)

I am new to dairy goats, Jasmine is my first milker (La Mancha).  All my others are meat goats and they do not get much grain, just enough to get them to the barn at night and to supplement some during gestation.  

The person I bought Jasmine from said she needs 1  - 2 lbs of grain a day to keep her milk up.  I offer her grain when I milk her twice a day and leave her with it for awhile afterwards.   Each time she will eat about 6-8 ounces and then lose interest.  She wanders around the barn eating dead weeds that are stuck to the tractor, old hay I keep around for bedding everything I think she wouldnt want.  Her milk production has definitely dropped.  What can I do to get her to eat more grain?  All my other goats fight over it and will do ANYTHING to get more. 

I switched to sweet grain and that helped a bit, before she snubbed it entirely.  She will however break into the hen house and eat the chicken feed.


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## glenolam (Jun 10, 2010)

Did she just arrive at your farm?  If so, the transport and new surroundings probably stressed her a little.  Give her time, keep working with her and she'll learn to trust you.

Since you're new to milking and she's experienced, she's probably also picking up on your nervousness (sorry if you aren't nervous, I just assumed because you said you were new to dairy goats).

You'll hear a few different opinions on how much to feed her, but the general idea (I think) is 2-3 pounds of grain per pound of milk.  Check out www.fiascofarms.com for great info on milking does.

To get her to eat more grain it might help to add **a few** treats, such as rasins or little peices of bread.  Some people even mix a little molasses in with the grain so the grain sticks to the feed bowl and takes the goats a little longer to get it - plus they love molasses.

Is she UTD on worming, if needed, and her shots?  If not, maybe she caught a parasite during the transport?


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## aggieterpkatie (Jun 10, 2010)

What type of grain are you feeding her? Can you feed some alfalfa to keep production up if she won't eat her grain?


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## cmjust0 (Jun 10, 2010)

What time of day are you milking/feeding?  If she's used to being fed or milked at a certain time, or if you're trying to feed her a couple pounds of sweet feed when it's already hot outside, she may not want to eat.


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## jodief100 (Jun 10, 2010)

Additional info:  She has been at my farm for about 5 weeks.  At first I had to race to milk her before she finished her grain, now I take my time because she is eating so slowly.  She was wormed when she left her other farm.  What wormers should I use?  I have been using Safeguard on my meat goats but there is no milk withdrawl listed, just says do not use on lactating does.  Previous farm used Ivermectin injectable for cattle.  I hate to buy a bottle of Ivermectin for one goat, but I will if y'all think that could help. 

She is kind of the outcast goat, she hasn't really bonded with any of the other goats.  I have two orphan spanish/kikos (anyone want to buy the male?) that are drinking all of her milk and she hangs out with them a little but she is mostly on her own.  The orphans are not really getting enough milk but since they are 7 weeks and eating grass and grain I don't worry too much.  They are growing.

I bought the Southern States brand sweet grain and it has molassas in it.  I am almost out and am going to Tractor Supply tonight, any suggestions?  

It has gotten hot in the last 3 weeks, could that be it?  She is just as finikey in the morning when it is still cool.  

I milk her before and after work (about 5:00 & 18:30 give or take 0:30). I am not sure of her previous schedule.  I do not have her in a head gate or anything.  She is such a sweet goat I just ask her to hop up on a stack of lumber in the barn, set her grain in a bowl in front of her and she lets me milk her, no problems.


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## freemotion (Jun 10, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> You'll hear a few different opinions on how much to feed her, but the general idea (I think) is 2-3 pounds of grain per pound of milk.  Check out www.fiascofarms.com for great info on milking does.


Just wanted to adjust this typo for ya  so no newbie throws the feed sack at their goatie.....I feed grain to my does that need it (thin/lactating/preggers) until I see slightly clumpy poo, then I back off.  This translates to a double handful twice a day (about 2-3 lbs per day total) for a doe who is giving me 8-10 pounds of milk per day.  The rest is made up with alfalfa pellets and alfalfa/grass mix hay and pasture/browse, and chopped root veggies and pumpkins and squashes in the fall/winter.

Sometimes you get a bag of feed that is a little "off."  It could have a little mold in it that you can't easily detect, but they sure can.  Some animals are more sensitive than others.  This may be the case, or maybe not, just another idea to look at.  Especially since she was eating well and now is not.

Oh, and the ivermectin injectible keeps well.  I have a bottle in the fridge.  I don't use it much, as I prefer natural methods and can run fecal exams myself, but I have it on hand because I will not hesitate to use it if needed on occasion.


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## glenolam (Jun 10, 2010)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> She is such a sweet goat I just ask her to hop up on a stack of lumber in the barn, set her grain in a bowl in front of her and she lets me milk her, no problems.




What I wouldn't give for that!

It might help to have a fecal test done just to see if there are any worms in there.  Does she have a temp?  Maybe you should give her a vitamin B shot to stimulate her appetite....

My doe had a hard time finishing her feed, but it was more because she's stubborn and didn't want ME to milk her.  So I mixed about 25# sweet feed from TSC (the Dumor brand) with 50# Dumor regular feed and then also added about 15-20# bag of alfalfa pellets.  She started gobbling it up.

I top dress their feed with probios once a week, but for her's I dress it a few times a week - she REALLY likes the probios and will lick the bowl clean to get it all.  It costs about $12 for a little jar, but if it helps me keep her on the stand longer, I'm OK with spending that much every month or two.


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## glenolam (Jun 10, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Just wanted to adjust this typo for ya  so no newbie throws the feed sack at their goatie.....


Always appreciated!  That's why I said "I think..."  I gave my doe 3-4 _cups_ of grain per day (I have no clue what that translates into pounds), but she's starting to just get fat and not giving me enough milk to explain that much feed, so I backed it off for now.  She's starting to get in better shape, so once she gives me more milk, she'll get a little more feed.

She never got clumpy poo (until I took them for a walk in the woods a few days ago!) but was nursing twins, so I assume she was well off....


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## Mea (Jun 10, 2010)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> It has gotten hot in the last 3 weeks, could that be it?  She is just as finikey in the morning when it is still cool.  .


We have one doe that periodically goes thru the " i really don't wanna eat my grain"  episodes.    This year i have been super rigerous on keeping the baking soda fresh in the self feeder...and it 'seems' to be helping.    Sometimes i think their stomach systems get overwhelmed with the concentrate and they might need the baking soda to calm their gut a bit.  I've also crushed fruit flavored Tums and mixed them in her feed.       Fingers crossed, so far this year she is doing Great !


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## jodief100 (Jun 10, 2010)

Mea said:
			
		

> jodief100 said:
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Baking Soda?   What kind of feeder do you put that in?  Mine like to spill everything.  Can I put it in with her grain or does she need it free feed?

I am going to try a little of everything tonight and hope.  My wonderful hubby is saying I am going to wind up with a goat like my greyhound who won't eat anything unless I dress it up.  Even then I have to give her variety or she gets bored.


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## Mea (Jun 10, 2010)

> Baking Soda?   What kind of feeder do you put that in?  Mine like to spill everything.  Can I put it in with her grain or does she need it free feed?
> 
> I am going to try a little of everything tonight and hope.  My wonderful hubby is saying I am going to wind up with a goat like my greyhound who won't eat anything unless I dress it up.  Even then I have to give her variety or she gets bored.


My DH  made a "tray"  it is about 6" wide   and can be as long as You need or desire.  It has a 1 inch edge around it.   I try and have it mounted high enough that they can reach it to lick... but  not poop in.

    For our does i will put about a cup at a time in.  I watch to make certain it is clean, and add more as needed.

  The Tums work pretty good as well, but i found out that i needed to crush them and add that to the feed.

  ( the doe that we have that got finicky on us, would not eat the goat feed at all last year ...But Would eat the sheep grain.  So she got her sheep feed, milk production went way down, but after a time... i was slowly able to start adding the goat ration back in.   It was a loonngg summer last year ! :/    )


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## glenolam (Jun 10, 2010)

Now I get to share some info I know is true!

Just don't forgot that if you feed sheep grain it contains no copper, so you should be sure to have a good mineral block (or something else that someone with more experience can chime in with) 

I keep my baking soda in a mineral feed bin screwed into their hay feeder - the problem I have is that it is constantly filled with hay, so I'm thinking I have to move it.....


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## jodief100 (Jun 11, 2010)

Update: My local TS did not have alfalfa pellet so I bought cubes.  I had to break them down into goat sized chunks and she LOVES them.  How much should I be giving her?  The bag said 16% protein.  She nosed around in her grain and picked out the cubes.


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## StormyMoon (Jun 12, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> Now I get to share some info I know is true!
> 
> Just don't forgot that if you feed sheep grain it contains no copper, so you should be sure to have a good mineral block (or something else that someone with more experience can chime in with)
> 
> I keep my baking soda in a mineral feed bin screwed into their hay feeder - the problem I have is that it is constantly filled with hay, so I'm thinking I have to move it.....


I am confused? do they lick at the baking soda freely? or are you sprinkling it on food?


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## Mea (Jun 12, 2010)

StormyMoon said:
			
		

> glenolam said:
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Ours is loose regular baking soda...in a tray ( kinda thingy)  They lick it as they feel they need it.  Goats usually are pretty good on self-medicating... given the choice and oppertunity.....usually....


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## StormyMoon (Jun 12, 2010)

Mea said:
			
		

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Ok Cool Thanks I had no idea you could just give it to them like that.


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## jodief100 (Jun 13, 2010)

Jasmine's milk has gone up the last few days.  She loves the alfalfa I bought her.  She gave me 24 oz this morning.  I have no idea if that is good or bad but it is almost what she gave me the fist week I had her and a good 8 oz more that she has been.  

She is a little goat, about 60 lbs, a very easy milker and a sweet little goat.

I worry about her not having horns when all my others do but she seems to be able to hold her own.


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## goodhors (Jun 13, 2010)

You might want to get a hanging scale, weigh what you feed.  This will allow you to KNOW the truth in what you serve the animal.

Doing a horse nutrition session, the first thing they told us was to buy a hanging scale.  Then they asked everyone who fed grain using a coffee can to put up their hand.  About 95% did!  Then the speaker demonstrated how DIFFERENTLY a can of oats weighed compared to a can of cracked corn or sweet feed.  Poundage varied incredibly!  It was a smaller coffee can, but oats weighed about 2 pounds, corn was over 6 and sweet feed came in around 4 something.  We were all quite shocked!  

The whole session was very eye opening to me, explaining about contents in the mixed, prepared, brand name feeds.  Values of the feeds, where horses got about 10% food value from oats, while they got 90% food value from cracked corn!  This was why the old-timers said corn was a "hot" feed, horse used all the nutrition in it!!  Molasses is a poor choice to add, sugar calories do nothing for your horse, allows feeds to have various "junk" stuff added and horse will eat it.  Feed companies can SELL the trash to you, and you still want more of it!  He had found dust from various grains, ground corncobs, other non-feed products, when researching brand name grain mixes.  Labels covered this practice with a percentage under Misc. 
Molasses also molds QUICKLY, often within 10 days of mixing feed in humid weather.  Mold is BAD for horses with their big lungs, and not good for feeding either.  Right after switching the old horse to Purina Senior, I bought two bags, both were moldy when I opened them.  Later research showed me that Purina Senior is highest in Molasses, to entice better consumption, even though high sugar is bad for old horses.

So with all this "new learning" I now read any feed label completely for contents.  You would be SURPRISED at what you find, and the percentages of each.  Reading feed recommendations of total quantity, can also surprise you.  Horse feed is always a big quantity, in daily feeding.  Even for non working animals, the amount they recommend for pasture horses is more than I feed our WORKING animals!  Feed companies have gotten us thinking that all animals MUST be fat to be fed correctly.  All photos are fat animals.  To be a good manager/GOOD owner of animals, you NEED to feed them a lot.

I do not buy commercial bagged feed of any brand.  I do buy Horse, cow, sheep Vitamins, which we top dress to our grain mixes in daily feeding.  I feed straight grains mixed at the local elevator.  Animals are not getting "extras" or undesirable products to eat.  I also find it much cheaper to feed them this way, animals look fine. 

Might take some extra work on your part researching nutrition, to find out good diets for goats, milking, dry, pregnant.  Each AREA of the nation has minerals and things that are good or deficient.  Locally in Michigan, most of the state is totally lacking in Selenium.  We MUST add Selenium to all the feeds to keep animals well.  However in a few places, like the next County over, they have EXTRA selenium in their soil.  So within 20 miles, we can have two extremely different feed protocals needed.  

Oh yes, if you feed Selenium, you MUST feed Vitamin E with it, so body absorbs the mineral.  Feeding plain Selenium is wasting your money, animal does not use the mineral.  Other places need copper and the other minerals, sometimes with a helping vitamin or mineral.  Lack of Sel fed is cause of White Muscle Disease here, lambs die from it.  You have to educate yourself, and the local Cooperative Extension Service can be of help here.  They have the above information, have spent money and years to learn what works in your area to aid farmers, livestock growers, ranchers.  USE them!

Find out what a pound of grain looks like, measures out, of the type you are using.  Could be a double handful or less, or lots more.  The hanging scale is your friend.  Hang the small bucket on, adjust marker to zero, add the grain until you reach your quantity.  Food scales work too, but adjust for container weight.  What is in that mix you get at TSC or the feed strore?  Can you buy plain oats, barley, cracked corn, alfalfa pellets, mix it up to suit yourself?  You can add the small daily amount of species vitamins from a full bag.  Add or leave out the molasses.  Reweigh each new order of grain, sometimes grain will be heavier or lighter, than your last purchase. So a pound of the new stuff will fill the measure device or you only need half the amount, but they still weigh the pound.  Brand name grains don't vary like that per bag, probably those fillers again.  

Our local elevator recommends 400 pounds of whatever, to get a good mixing, and not fussing with it to me, pays for the mixing charge.  Daughter mixes her own lamb grain, since quantity used is small over the summer for 4-H lambs.  A large CLEAN muck tub (only used for water or mixing) allows good mixing and a fair amount of feed is done at once if you don't want vast quantities or to pay for mixing.  She would have leftovers when lambs are gone, with 400# order of grain.

We have fed the horses our own mix of grain for many years, always get compliments on them.  They REALLY only get about 1/2 to 1pound EACH, once a day, look tremendous.  Working hard, we might up the grain to 2 pounds once a day.  Grain mix is filling, supplies that extra bit grass or hay does not.  Same plain grain mixes are doing an excellent job feeding the cattle and sheep.  No MYSTERY feeds in the grain mixes, no mold because we use no molasses either.  I like being able to tailor our feeds to suit our needs.


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## babsbag (Jun 15, 2010)

My goats all turn their nose up at the alfalfa cubes. I never figured out why. They will eat the pellets, and the hay, but no cubes. I just bought another bag and they still hate it. But I keep trying.


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