# Calf can't stand up



## Barbara Guth (Jun 22, 2017)

Hello everyone. I'm hoping someone can tell me something as this situation makes no sense to me. I have an approx ten day old calf, I got him from a family member who doesnt have the time I do to tend to him. Here's what's happening. When they found him (shortly after birth, possibly next day) he wasn't doing well. They attempted to let the momma feed him but she kept knocking him over (he can't balance himself) so they brought him up and began bottle feeding. He was doing fine, eating well, walking around etc. (I didn't believe them until they sent me video of it :/) He began to poop on the porch so they moved him to the barn right next to the house and bam two days later he can't get up at all on his own. On Saturday the 17th I brought him home and began the process of trying to get him back on his feet. He lays on his side because he can't stand up. When I go out and help him sit up I have to use a hay bales for support or he'll fall right over. Once he's sitting up he will attempt to scratch his ear, once he does that his feet pop out from underneath him and back on his side he goes with all four legs stiffened. At first he was barely eating and he couldn't keep his eyes open, and a friend of mine suggested noromycin 300 (all I had on hand, vet was closed) so we gave him a shot. The next day his eyes were wide open and clear and his ears perked up and now he's eating like he's starving. He responds when I walk in the shed to check on him, he's attempting to stand on his own he just can't do it. When I sit him up, he immediately tries to stand but will fall back down. I've had him for a week and I've given him a dose of nursemate (don't know 100 percent he got colostrum), probios, jumpstart pro, and this evening we gave him a shot of multimin90 that I got from the vet (vet couldn't see him today because of several surgeries). Now, at this point I'm afraid to give him anything else for fear of accidentally killing him trying to get him up. So any advice at all that can help get me through the weekend would be most appreciated as I'm taking him to the vet Monday morning to try and figure out what happened and how he went down so fast. My apologies if I rambled or forgot something but I'm very tired, worried and frustrated. PS I can't upload the video but I wish I could so you could see how he was prior to whatever happened to him.


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## jhm47 (Jun 23, 2017)

"now he's eating like he's starving." Whatever you do-------DON'T overfeed him.  Feed him the recommended amount of whatever milk replacer you're using, and NO MORE!  As to not being able to stand, it may be a neurological problem.  He could possibly be having seizures when he stiffens his legs out.  Could also be some kind of infection.  Hope the vet can figure it out.  Good luck!


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## babsbag (Jun 23, 2017)

I know zero about cattle, but with a goat I would never give only one shot of an antibiotic. Even the long acting ones I give at least three doses 36 hours apart. Isn't giving one shot equivalent of not finishing the entire course of the drug which they suggest that we never do? 

I hope he gets better, but I have no help to offer other than maybe whatever the antibiotic treated isn't entirely gone. Just guessing.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 23, 2017)

babsbag said:


> I know zero about cattle, but with a goat I would never give only one shot of an antibiotic. Even the long acting ones I give at least three doses 36 hours apart. Isn't giving one shot equivalent of not finishing the entire course of the drug which they suggest that we never do?
> 
> I hope he gets better, but I have no help to offer other than maybe whatever the antibiotic treated isn't entirely gone. Just guessing.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 23, 2017)

I was actually going to give him another one today but I wanted to call my vet and ask about giving it so close to the multimin and ask if there was something better. All I have on hand is the noromycin and some pen G I bought for my goat a few years back. I've always heard that penG gets old quick and it's not the best antibiotic for animals.


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## babsbag (Jun 23, 2017)

Good for calling the vet. I hope that this is all "fixable"  I seldom use Pen for anything on my goats other than rumen related problems and delivery complications. Good thing it is cheap as I throw it out long before I use it all.


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## greybeard (Jun 23, 2017)

Would you describe this calf's problem as 'staggering'?
When you say it is trying to scratch it's ear, is it doing it with a hoof, rubbing against something or just throwing it's head up and back?

I would suspect tetany if the calf were a little older, but it does happen to calves whose mothers were on pasture with high levels of Potassium in the days/weeks prior to calving as well.
Give your vet all the info you can so he/she can bring whatever may be needed including injectable calcium and magnesium, or what may be needed to do it IV..

Might also be just an inner ear problem, affecting balance or causing dizziness.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 23, 2017)

greybeard said:


> Would you describe this calf's problem as 'staggering'?
> When you say it is trying to scratch it's ear, is it doing it with a hoof, rubbing against something or just throwing it's head up and back?
> 
> I would suspect tetany if the calf were a little older, but it does happen to calves whose mothers were on pasture with high levels of Potassium in the days/weeks prior to calving as well.
> ...


He tries to reach his foot back and he'll turn his head but he can't balance himself to actually scratch. When we stand him up he will either lean too far forward or too far back, so we stand next to him to help him maintain balance. He will stretch is neck forward as if he's trying to go but he doesn't seem to know how to move his front feet. We will move them for him and he'll bring his back feet forward to catch up but that's it. Something else I didn't think to mention. Whether he's sitting ( I sit him up to get him off his side) or laying he will stretch his head back as far as he possibly can. I'm just baffled. And my vet went awol today. Not sure what that was about but I'll try again. Another thing is. He will let me work his legs while he's laying down and when I sit him up, after I bend his front legs he will immediately try to stand but he can't get up he just falls back down.


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## greybeard (Jun 23, 2017)

Get him in a trailer or however you brought him home and be at the vet when they open tomorrow morning.


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## greybeard (Jun 24, 2017)

Was this calf oxy deprived at birth that you know of?


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 24, 2017)

babsbag said:


> Good for calling the vet. I hope that this is all "fixable"  I seldom use Pen for anything on my goats other than rumen related problems and delivery complications. Good thing it is cheap as I throw it out long before I use it all.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 24, 2017)

My nephew said thats what his vet told him. Now, with that said, I don't know if they actually had the vet look at him or they called or how all that went down.  They did give him some nuflor. Two shots that I know of. And he was walking (not sure if I mentioned this) but after they moved him to the barn he went down. Someone else suggested maybe an inner ear infection?


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## greybeard (Jun 24, 2017)

Barbara Guth said:


> Someone else suggested maybe an inner ear infection?


Yes, in all mammals, 'something' has to tell the brain which way the head is tilted, which way is up, and what 'level' is, otherwise imbalance, dizziness, and vertigo happen, making it very hard to walk in a straight line, keep from falling, and getting one foot in front of another. That 'something' is fluid in the inner ear. It creates a sort of true heading--an artificial horizon to enable good mobility no matter what the immediate physical surroundings are. 
Altho the following pertains specifically to humans, animal imbalance works the same way. You can read about it here:
https://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/balance-disorders#3

Pressure within the brain (often caused by tumors either benign or cancerous) can also cause severe vertigo.
And it doesn't have to be an infection. A birth defect or injury can cause it too.


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## greybeard (Jun 24, 2017)

Just throwing this out there as a 'let's go back to when things were working right' type thing........
If you can pick the calf up easily enough, take it outside the barn, where it can get a bigger view of the world and see if it's walking/standing ability improves. 

Are you sure the calf isn't partially blind?


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 24, 2017)

How can I tell if he's partially blind? He doesnt blink a lot but he does respond when I go out to the shed and check on him. But I don't know if he sees me or just hear me. I've never seen or know anyone with a calf with seeing issues. As far as taking him out, I bring him out daily for fresh air and exercise but I have to hold him for him to stay balanced. His hind end will lean or he'll stretch his neck to far out and fall forward.


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## Devonviolet (Jun 24, 2017)

Hi Barbara. 

I have goats, not cows. So, I'm sorry to say I don't have a clue what's happening with your little calf. Bravo to you, for taking him on, though.     Although, I just have to say, depending on your past experience with that Vet, I would be tempted to find another Vet after he went AWOL, when you had already made it known that you desperately needed help with a sick calf!!!    

I see you are located in NE TX, so I just have to ask . . . in what part, do you live??? (without giving away your exact location). There are several of us who live in NE TX.   Occasionally we all get together, to shoot the breeze, and share a meal.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 24, 2017)

Devonviolet said:


> Hi Barbara.
> 
> I have goats, not cows. So, I'm sorry to say I don't have a clue what's happening with your little calf. Bravo to you, for taking him on, though.     Although, I just have to say, depending on your past experience with that Vet, I would be tempted to find another Vet after he went AWOL, when you had already made it known that you desperately needed help with a sick calf!!!
> 
> I see you are located in NE TX, so I just have to ask . . . in what part, do you live??? (without giving away your exact location). There are several of us who live in NE TX.   Occasionally we all get together, to shoot the breeze, and share a meal.


I'm 2.5 hours from Dallas.


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## Devonviolet (Jun 25, 2017)

Barbara Guth said:


> I'm 2.5 hours from Dallas.


Well, we must not be too far apart. I'm 2 hours from Dallas.


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## Mini Horses (Jun 25, 2017)

Unless you are on opposite sides of Dallas   

I hope you get help for the calf.    It seems you are trying to do all you can.  Have you used this vet before?  (Maybe you don't have other livestock, I don't know)

 Vets I have used consistently have NEVER left me in a bind  --  I've even had them call in another vet if they happened to be out of town!!   Of course, many years with them helped.     This is why, if you have livestock, you always want to develop an association with a good vet.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 25, 2017)

I have used him. We only have two (close by) that handle large breed animals and he's the better of the two. I spoke to my Dil (she was the one going in with her dog that day) and it turns out there was a miscommunication of some sort. So I'm wondering if he even knew she was coming in because him just not showing up makes no sense to me at all. I have not had an issue with him since I found him and I'm actually glad I found him because the other vet (in my opinion) isn't with his salt where calves are concerned. I do have other livestock but thank God they're all healthy and we haven't had to have him see them yet but he takes care of all my dogs and when the next shots are due for the girls (cows) he'll be the one tending them. I'll get it all figured out. Me and Tip (calf) are doing in first thing in the AM to have a thorough look to find out what's going on. I just can't wrap my head around how he goes from walking and eating fine to not being able to stand at all. I'll let everyone know what he says. I hope it's good news and he's fixable.


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## Devonviolet (Jun 25, 2017)

Mini Horses said:


> Unless you are on opposite sides of Dallas


   Yeah. That would be too bad!

Actually, we PM'd and we are only about 40 minutes apart.


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## greybeard (Jun 25, 2017)

2 1/2 hrs from Dallas in this state can mean a lot of things. 
It takes me just about 3 hrs to get there from here, and I'm 45 minutes north of Houston. I live in San Jacinto County, about 8 miles north of Cleveland and just across the Liberty County line. 
It can be confusing, but here's how it works:

Texas is divided into 24 separate geographical /demographical/economic regions, with the Eastern 1/2 of Texas being  divided into 4 geographical regions according to Council of Govts.





https://www.txregionalcouncil.org/display.php?page=regions_map.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Association_of_Regional_Councils
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Texas#Population.2C_demographics_and_government
Ark-Tex in the extreme NE corner.



Sulphur Springs/Tyler is East Texas and my area (14 on the map above) and anywhere more than 20 miles East of US69/59 is offically known as Deep East Texas as long as you are North of the Houston region and South of Rusk county.
I'm guessing tho, that you are somewhere closer to Texarkana than in the other direction. I have a cousin running about 100 polled Hereford mommas with 5-7 bulls in Bowie county.


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## Devonviolet (Jun 25, 2017)

Interesting . . .  for some reason, I thought you were down around region 17.

I know where Barbara lives, now. We are both in region 5. She is closer to @Latestarter than I am. But I am closer to @Baymule.  We are ALL close enough to get together for a meal some time - including YOU @greybeard. 

Wouldn't that be fun???


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 26, 2017)

Update: got the calf to the vet. He has sepsis. His white blood cell count was high and she said that means his body is fighting the infection. She said there's a possibility he can come out of it. He has no pnuemonia, no scours, no fever. She gave him injectable colostrum, batril and Dex for the inflammation. In two days were supposed to give him another dose of the batril. If, by Friday, he's still not up she says most likely he isnt going to get up and we'll have to choose an alternative. But she also gave him a very low chance of survival.  I'm not sure I did the right thing instead if just putting him down. What would any of y'all have done? Would you try to keep them alive or just end it?


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## LocoYokel (Jun 26, 2017)

So sorry about your calf, sick baby animals are heart rending.   I would have done what you did and got him to the vet.  Calves are worth it in my book.  Carry out her instructions, you never know... my dog Dexter survived Parvo, somehow.  All the care and attention he has had and is getting from you ups his chances.  
Sure hope the news is better by Friday.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 26, 2017)

Thank you. I hope so too. He is strong-willed and he wants to get up so bad he just needs a little boost.


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## greybeard (Jun 26, 2017)

Barbara Guth said:


> What would any of y'all have done? Would you try to keep them alive or just end it?


Septicemia..it doesn't get much worse than that. 
Is the vet going to do a culture to determine which bacterial infection it has?
As is my habit, I do try to give an honest answer, tho it will probably be an un-popular answer here.
If it were mine (it isn't) I would most likely end it's suffering if not better by Friday.


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## Devonviolet (Jun 26, 2017)

The way I see it, nothing ventured, nothing gained.  You had a number of factors working against you (and the little guy)!  Not the least of which is a Vet going AWOL!!!! 

I tend to agree with @greybeard.  A culture is important, so the Vet knows which bacteria she is dealing with, and subsequently which antibiotic will be most effective.  If it isn't better by Friday, it might be best to gently put him out of his misery.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 26, 2017)

greybeard said:


> Septicemia..it doesn't get much worse than that.
> Is the vet going to do a culture to determine which bacterial infection it has?
> As is my habit, I do try to give an honest answer, tho it will probably be an un-popular answer here.
> If it were mine (it isn't) I would most likely end it's suffering if not better by Friday.


That's the plan. If he's not up by Friday we don't feel like he's going to get up at all at this point.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 26, 2017)

greybeard said:


> Septicemia..it doesn't get much worse than that.
> Is the vet going to do a culture to determine which bacterial infection it has?
> As is my habit, I do try to give an honest answer, tho it will probably be an un-popular answer here.
> If it were mine (it isn't) I would most likely end it's suffering if not better by Friday.


I don't believe she is. I wouldn't swear to what all she ran. She checked his white cell count and his glucose and some other things.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 26, 2017)

On a side note though. After I got him home, I put him in the shade by my window so I could keep an eye on him and he's actually moving his legs on his own. That's not something he was doing before. And when I stood him up to feed him earlier we almost both went down because he moved his front leg forward, again, not something he's done by himself yet. I'm not getting my hopes up but I am praying he recovers.


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## babsbag (Jun 26, 2017)

I would have done the same as you...I always give them the chance as you never know. I hope he pulls through.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 27, 2017)

So I went and got some pain medicine from the vet today. For the first time since we brought this little fella home, he actually sat up by himself. No help. We weren't even around, I was around the side of the house. He was laying on his side like he usually does and he sat up.


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## Mini Horses (Jun 27, 2017)




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## Barbara Guth (Jun 28, 2017)

So I need your opinions again. Tip (calf) is trying to stand. I'm guessing we got the meds in time and they are helping as he's moving quite a bit more now and he actually "cried" out this morning. But, he can't seem to control his neck. I was wondering if maybe a neck brace may help him to gain control and build his muscles up some more. Thoughts?


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## Mini Horses (Jun 28, 2017)

IMO -- I'd give him one more day to work thru meds.  If improvements, then consider more.  IF he's flopping put a bale of hay (or huge piles)  next to him to help support neck &/or falls & flops.  See if that helps any by evening.  A brace may be more of a limitation for him at this point, especially as the nerves may be spastic at times.  Not everything will resolve at the same time.   This is how I would handle it at this stage.

The head of an animal is a very important "control" center for handling and for balance for them..  For instance, when I had a horse with a broken leg in a cast, I would halter and tie him. put wide body band under belly and hook that to lift above, so that I could lift the rear leg NOT in cast.  The body band held his weight, his front legs and head formed a triangle of stabilization, while I lifted his good leg in rear to trim hooves.   Naturally, temporary but it was the balance factor.

If leading an unruly animal, the head is key.    So, yes, he needs that head control but, he may be able to use those muscles & nerves better once the meds help reduce the inflammation.  If he pulls thru, it will be a slow process to normal.  

Others may have more help to offer.   We're all pulling for him.


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## Baymule (Jun 28, 2017)

Hope your calf improves. I'm about 40 minutes from @Devonviolet, we're just north of Tyler. It's about time we all got together for a good visit and to tie on the feedbag! @Latestarter? How about it y'all? No better reason than to meet our new friend!


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## Devonviolet (Jun 28, 2017)

Absolutely!  Let's set up a meet & greet!

So, @Barbara Guth, how is the little guy doing???


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 29, 2017)

Devonviolet,  thank you for asking.
I don't know what to think about all this. 
After the vet gave him the medicine, the next day he actually sat up by himself, which was pretty exciting. Now today he's still sitting himself up and  he's trying so hard to stand but he can't quite seem to get his legs to work to get him off the ground. Idk if it's because he's still weak (he doesn't seem weak when you help him stand, he's actually pretty stout) or if there's something else we're missing. He does seem to have trouble keeping his head still while standing but sitting he seems to be gaining control over it. We tried the harness and that isn't going to work. He was clearly in pain with it on so we won't use it again. Now I'm wondering if he has something internally going on.


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## Mini Horses (Jun 29, 2017)

Oh, he is a very sick boy!   This is affecting his entire body, not just like cut on the leg.   Every muscle & nerve is under attack.  That's why I said -- even when he seems ok, he has a long recovery for things to heal and cleanse.

Think this way -- a fire spreads smoke into a room, everything is touched by it and you have to clean it off.   Slow and tedious job.  In his body, the infection & inflammation is pretty much everywhere to some degree.   That's why it is so hard to heal.

I didn't mean for you to harness him, just trying to point out the effect of heads on animals and control.  You little guy needs to be supported from falls, etc.  He may not recover, as the vet has said, but miracles happen sometimes.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 29, 2017)

Mini Horses said:


> Oh, he is a very sick boy!   This is affecting his entire body, not just like cut on the leg.   Every muscle & nerve is under attack.  That's why I said -- even when he seems ok, he has a long recovery for things to heal and cleanse.
> 
> Think this way -- a fire spreads smoke into a room, everything is touched by it and you have to clean it off.   Slow and tedious job.  In his body, the infection & inflammation is pretty much everywhere to some degree.   That's why it is so hard to heal.
> 
> I didn't mean for you to harness him, just trying to point out the effect of heads on animals and control.  You little guy needs to be supported from falls, etc.  He may not recover, as the vet has said, but miracles happen sometimes.




Oh no. We were going to try the harness anyway. That was already planned. I was just sharing how it went. He did actually stand for a few seconds on his own today. We had to stand him up for his daily exercise and my husband let go and he kept standing for a few seconds. So I completely agree with you. We have a long road ahead of us but he's totally worth it. He's so ready to go he just needs a little extra help.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 29, 2017)

Minihorses. There's also a slight possibility I'm a bit on the paranoia side of things. Just like when my children are sick I always think if the absolute worst and start panicking. Little Tip is still eating well. Using the bathroom, attempting to get up on his own. I think I misread his body movements when I got the idea he had internal issues. I'm not real familiar with cows and their anatomy and such, but in the past week I've learned a ton of info.


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## Mini Horses (Jun 30, 2017)

Eating & drinking are good signs.    We all get "hyper" when an animal is down and we just can't "make it well".   Yep, you pull out your hair.

Here's a thought for him -- as he will be weak -- if he gets to be able to stand you & DH can put an old sheet, folded lengthwise, under his gut & over each of your shoulders (& behind your neck, think yoke) like a sling.  Then as he attempts to walk, he'll have some support to avoid falls & help to move along, while trying to keep his legs under him.

Not a cow owner now but, have had my share of issues with minis & goats.   You are moving him, I can tell by posts, and this is needed to keep his systems functioning.   Kudos!


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## Devonviolet (Jun 30, 2017)

That's a good idea @Mini Horses. I t sounds like your Little Tip is making at least a small improvement.   If you have the time, energy & money, for Vet visits, by all means you should keep working with him.


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## Barbara Guth (Jun 30, 2017)

@minihorses. I never thought about a sheet. I've been wracking my brain on what to use. I'll tell the husband we need to try that. 
@Devonviolet. He's made a big improvement. When I brought him home poor guy couldn't move his legs and since  he got this shots he's still trying to sit up and he'll "buck" when we stand him up because he wants to get up so bad. As far as the vet, thankfully, it hasn't broke the bank and the medicine is fairly reasonable. So I plan on keeping contact with her to see how we can keep working with him to get him where he needs to be.


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## Barbara Guth (Jul 3, 2017)

Well sadly he didn't make it. Not sure what happened but he went down Friday again so we took him to my vet this morning and he said by looking at his eyes and muscle movements the disease had affected his nervous system, and at this point there would be no getting him on his feet or fixing the problem so we put him down. Thank you everyone for being so supportive and understanding while I tried to figure out how to help him.


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## frustratedearthmother (Jul 3, 2017)

So sorry he didn't make it.


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## Devonviolet (Jul 3, 2017)

Awwww, so sorry, Barbara.    You gave it an awesome effort, to save the little guy.     Hopefully you learned something that will help you, if you ever run into a similar situation.


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## Mini Horses (Jul 3, 2017)

You did your best at giving him a chance.  The decision to humanely relieve him of his suffering was compassionate and one of the hardest decision we make as an animal caretaker. It was an almost no win from the get go.    Kudos for trying. 

He is now running free -- no pain, no problems.  

I am sorry for the loss and grief it has been.  It hurts to love!!


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## greybeard (Jul 3, 2017)

I can't say I'm surprised by this outcome, especially after finding out sepsis was the culprit. Mortality rate for it is pretty high in calves, and it is extremely fatiguing for and on the animal.
There's one constant in animal husbandry..if you raise livestock, you're going to lose some. Some years are just better than others.


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## LocoYokel (Jul 3, 2017)

You did your best for him, sorry for the loss.


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## Baymule (Jul 3, 2017)

You gave it your best. Sorry about your calf.


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## babsbag (Jul 4, 2017)

we were all pulling for him. It was good of you to try, I'm sorry it wasn't the outcome that was hoped for.


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## Barbara Guth (Jul 17, 2017)

@babsbag  I think in my heart I knew but I just tried to hold out hope because miracles do happen, but at least now he's not in pain. After we did that things got kinda crazy around here. I had family show up for the fourth then my niece popped in for a week, now my sister is in town for a few days, and I have a cow that has something on her leg, we've been tending to her trying to get that fixed.  It's been a busy summer. How's everyone else's summer going so far?


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## WyndSyrin (Aug 4, 2017)

Raising my own bottle calf so I can understand what you were going through


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