# 12 week old kid - Diarrhea



## woodsie (Jun 10, 2013)

I brought home two doelings a couple weeks ago and both have been doing really well. I had them in a dry-lot pen first on hay and no troubles. I moved them into the larger pasture with my big goats and sheep/lambs and they have been fine but one has come down with diarrhea for the past couple days. The pasture is very lush at the moment and everyone's poop is a little softer than usual. We did prune the lilacs and they were eating the tender leaves off the branches. (I also had two bottle lambs that got the runs really bad, one refusing her bottle, but I put them in quarantine on hay with pepto and slippery elm and they were back to their bouncing self in a day.)

This one has a muddy poop that is very runny, no balls whatsoever. I gave her some slippery elm yesterday, still has the runs and pepto this morning. She seems to be fine, still eating and energetic but still has a muddy bum. I am always worried about cocci but don't want to start on anti-biotics if it is just from a rich diet. Her sister is fine and they are both eating the same stuff. Should I quarantine and put on hay or start antibiotics or just leave it? :/


----------



## DonnaBelle (Jun 10, 2013)

You can always take a sample to a vet to be sure what you are dealing with.  If it's cocci he can tell you so and recommended a dosage of Dimethox.

Or if it's the lush new forage and they are not used to it, give some Probios a couple times a day for a few days, and see if that helps.

Our goat's pasture became full and lush fast this spring, and 2 of them had very soft green poops for a while.  We dosed the ones with problems with Probios for several days.

They are finally used to the new growth, and it's getting on into June, which helps some.

Runny poops can indicate cocci, even in an adult goat.  I usually have a fecal done, for $15 or 20 bucks it's well worth it to know the facts.

DonnaBelle


----------



## elevan (Jun 10, 2013)

What color is the poop?


----------



## woodsie (Jun 10, 2013)

Its greenybrown and has quickly escalated to trickling like a stream out of her bum...needless to say I brought out the anti-biotics as soon as I saw that. I have her penned up with hay, baking soda and water. She readily took the medicine and I also gave her a bottle of electrolites with a tsp of slippery elm which she drank well. 

She is still eating hay and moving about fine but when I saw that I assumed we were dealing with cocci.....I don't think she has been wormed, would it be prudent to do this too? Just wondering if I can do it now, or should I wait until the diarrhea gets better?

It seems like most breeders in my area don't do any vaccinations or kid worming and trust in their "clean practices" which is probably fine until you move them to a new house and they stress from new circumstances and then the new owner has a problem on their hands....plus I have never had an issue with a dam raised goat, but these bottle babies, even if they are fed the mom's milk seem to be much more prone to getting sick. I love the friendliess of a bottlebaby but they certainly do get sick much easier...or at least in my exerience.


----------



## woodsie (Jun 10, 2013)

I asked the vet about a fecal and they caost $25/animal here and I am not confident they are experienced in doing goat fecals. She basically said they don't bother because it doesn't often show up and I am not sure they really know what they are looking for in goats/sheep. She didn't want to do one and just gave me the meds to treat cocci...they really have VERY little experience with goats or sheep, it is a horse and cow town.


----------



## elevan (Jun 11, 2013)

Green poop  is generally indicative of it being dietary.

Do you have any poisonous plants that she could have gotten into?  If not, then it's likely just lush green foliage.

Give a package of gelatin (jello) in enough water to liquify it and drench it orally.  Repeat in a couple of hours if needed...ie:  still having diarrhea.

Doing the treatment for coccidia isn't a bad idea either, it certainly won't hurt anything.


----------



## woodsie (Jun 11, 2013)

I did just give her a packet of gelatin so I'll see if that helps. I don't have any any poisonous plants in my pasture that I know about and nothing else has gotten sick so I don't think it is poisoning, other than she ate a lot of lilac leaves on Sunday morning. 

The diarrhea is still really bad but not watery, squirty, just like a loose mud...yuck - sorry! The diarrhea is more just brown now, not really green anymore. 

She is very active and doesn't seem sick but I wish I saw some clumping. She is still eating hay and looking for my special bottles. I guess I will give her another electrolite bottle with probiotics now and a dose of her meds before bed and pray I see some nanny berries in the morning.


----------



## bonbean01 (Jun 12, 2013)

Hope it gets better...berry poops, or at least dog logs by morning.  Took Em's advice with the gelatin when I've had that problem and it worked!!!  Kid may need more than one dose of it.

Hoping to see a good update from you  tomorrow


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jun 12, 2013)

cocci can stunt her growth.   I would treat her for cocci.  If you don't want to use a long term drug like sulfa dimethoxine which has a 30 day withdrawal, Corid only has a 24 hour withdrawal and has been recently certified for organic dairy farms.


----------



## Southern by choice (Jun 12, 2013)

woodsie said:
			
		

> I asked the vet about a fecal and they caost $25/animal here and I am not confident they are experienced in doing goat fecals. She basically said they don't bother because it doesn't often show up and I am not sure they really know what they are looking for in goats/sheep. She didn't want to do one and just gave me the meds to treat cocci...they really have VERY little experience with goats or sheep, it is a horse and cow town.


doesn't show up? What? if they are horse vets then they probably do the McMasters 3 chambered slides. A fecal is a fecal. Print out a copy of what goat worms look like and cocci for goats, ask if YOU can use their scope to check the fecal. 

Considering all the factors it may well be a worthy investment of 125-150 scope, I can send you the recipe for the float mix ( simple- sugar and water) chalex sells the 2 chambered slides and the procedure is simple and you can check your goats anytime. If is not difficult to count eggs on a McMasters slide.  My 10 year old can do it. It takes just a few minutes to understand what you are looking at as far as  eggs go, cocci is harder and usually you need to change the magnification.

In the end people spend alot of money throwing stuff at the goat and hoping something works yet they never really know what it was to begin with. It is very hard on a goat. 

You can check your sheep, goats, dogs. So worth it. We offer free classes on fecal readings to all of our customers. The basics of what is what and the hows. They supply the poop and learn how to look at a fecal. Often they are surprised at how easy it is. 

I sure hope she gets better and you find the problem. And you are right, all the data supports bottle raised kids have higher incidence of sickness. But bottle babies are so adorable too, I also think some breeders that strictly bottle feed have really come up with ways to keep the health superior and those breeders seem to be the exception to the norm. There are lots of breeders on here that have such a great system they don't seem to have those issue with their herds at all.


----------



## woodsie (Jun 12, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> woodsie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Southern, I was just looking up how to do fecals thinking I should really look into this because it feels like I am totally shooting blind. I am in this for the long haul and don't mind investing a bit of money and education learning how to do things properly. Plus I figure I can use the fecal testing as a fantastic homeschool lesson with my kids. Do you have a recommendation on a scope? and I will definitely take the float mix recipe - Thank you! 

Yeah, I was shocked the vets didn't want to do a fecal....I assumed they'd want to do testing before treating but nope. Same thing when I had a vet come do a herd visit, he said they look good and just worm them twice a year, I asked about fecals and they said its not necessary! 

I don't know what is going on with this goat though....she is still eating, perky and acting perfectly normal but still with a muddy poops. I am assuming if it was dietary it would have cleared up by now. Now I am leaning towards worms... I will get the vet to do a fecal (if they'll do one), I'll call as soon as they open.


----------



## elevan (Jun 12, 2013)

That vet needs re-educated.  De-worming on a schedule and without a fecal to back it up just leads to drug resistant worms!  This kind of thinking is exactly why we are in the predicament that we are in this country and around the world really.    Sorry for the rant... coming down from my soapbox now...  If you need more information on worms and de-worming and drug resistance please check out my article "Parasite Management" linked in my signature below.


----------



## Southern by choice (Jun 12, 2013)

woodsie- the barberpole will not cause scours ( by scours I am guessing you mean watery diarrhea)  (the barberpole is the big bad worm for goats and sheep) severe tapes can cause wet nasty runny poop but not watery poop.  20 kids is probably right... may be cocci. Cocci , when really bad will cause blood. 
There are often other bacterial issues that can cause scours though. *In your situation I would go with what 20 kids says... I would treat for cocci**. I am the kind to pretty much oppose "just treating" without the proper data, but you are in a rather peculiar situation. I know nothing about treatment as we have no cocci issue and we do not use medicated feed. Less is better IMO.

I would try to do all this in a dry lot though, you do not want cocci everywhere or with worms you don't want "superworms" breeding.

I have a very very old scope   looking at a new one that has a video screen so it can be viewed by those you are teaching. I think it is around 175. My friend T- Maxon has one and I am going to try hers out with my McMasters slides. The new one will make teaching so much easier. That would be ideal for your home-schooling! 

I am sure you are already giving some probios, but that is always good too!

I will try to pull up the link for the scope, and the slides (the kit is the way to go). When I clean out my full box I will pm you. I hate cleaning out my box.  

* I am pretty sure she has a page somewhere on this, or rolls farm does, or elevan.


----------



## Southern by choice (Jun 12, 2013)

woodsie- my friend uses... Celestron 44340 LCD Digital Microscope


----------



## woodsie (Jun 12, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> woodsie- my friend uses... Celestron 44340 LCD Digital Microscope


I was looking at a Celestron....thanks for the recommendation. I'll be sure to order one very soon - can't wait! 

I have been treating for cocci with antibiotics for a couple days and I went outside to check her and her bum is dry! yay! I think we maybe over the worst but I haven't seen her nanny berries yet, but I'll be watching. I definitely will need to set up a cocci prevention program for these new animals I am bringing home and armed with my microscope I won't have to be guessing and throwing the kitchen sink in remedies at them anymore.


----------



## purplequeenvt (Jun 12, 2013)

Unless they have a fever or are otherwise acting off, I don't give them anything for scours until I know what is causing them. If it was simply a case of too much rich grass on a stomach that wasn't ready for it, then a couple days of dry lot and some hay shortly before going back out should do the trick. Giving antibiotics in this situation could actually do more harm than good. You will mess up the gut flora, potentially causing more scours.


----------



## woodsie (Jun 14, 2013)

I am happy to report she has nanny berries that are sticking together. I am keeping her in dry lot for one more day just to make sure, plus it rained last night and I think the lush, wet grass might be a little much to adjust to so she is staying dry and on hay for another day. Hopefully it will dry out soon. I am so thankful that we have had success treating these sick tummies, and can't wait to get my microscope so I can be armed with real information! 

Thanks for all the help again!


----------

