# BOSS question...



## cmjust0 (Feb 17, 2010)

I've got one goat who I think could use a little BOSS..  She's not bad off or anything, but her coat's a little weird.  

_The whole goat_ is a little weird, actually, but that's beside the point.

Anyway, I know some of you guys feed a little BOSS to improve coat and/or body condition (fat), and I was wondering where you find it.  I mean, I know I can get it at almost any Wal-Mart-ish type department store in the bird seed area, but is that really what everyone else is using?  

Also, I noticed that it was pretty expensive when I last checked...like $15+ for a 25lb bag at Wal-Mart.  Pound for pound, that's more than four times as much as I pay for 16% medicated goat grain..  Yikes..

Then I thought, hey, maybe it's a feedmill item?  So I checked with mine today and, sure enough, they have it.  It's _much_ cheaper there, too -- $14.50 for a 50lb bag.  Less than half the cost of Wal Mart.

Thing is, it's packaged as bird seed..  For some reason, that's giving me pause.  I know what's in the bag and all, but I just kinda wonder if there's like a 'livestock grade' BOSS and a 'birdseed grade' BOSS or something..  I dunno..  I'm probably just being paranoid..   

I guess what I'm getting at is that if everyone else is using wild bird labeled BOSS with good results, super...I'll buy a bag next time I'm at the feedmill.



If not...uhh, where else should I be looking?!?


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## Mini-M Ranch (Feb 17, 2010)

Yup, the bird seed.  What you want is the solid black ones, not the stripes.  I get mine at Southern States.  I think it is around $11.00 for a 50 # bag.


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## miron28 (Feb 17, 2010)

what is this for and it is brid seed for goats ?


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## cmjust0 (Feb 17, 2010)

Mini-M Ranch said:
			
		

> Yup, the bird seed.  What you want is the solid black ones, not the stripes.  I get mine at Southern States.  I think it is around $11.00 for a 50 # bag.


Bird seed it is, then!  

I just checked SS website, and they list a 40lb bag for $15.99...  Wonder if $11/50lb is a local special or something?  Or maybe the online price is higher...who knows..

Probably need to make a phone call, huh?  

Thanks.


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## DonnaBelle (Feb 17, 2010)

We buy our Black Oil Sunflower Seed at the feed store.

It's around $11.00 for a 50# bag.

It's the same stuff WalMart sells.  We also put it in our bird feeder.  All the birds love it, especially the Cardinals right before a snow storm.  But the little birds eat it too.  It's very high in protein and fat.  A good combo in winter.

I actually tasted it one time, really tastes pretty good.  My goats love it too.

DonnaBelle


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## cmjust0 (Feb 17, 2010)

miron28 said:
			
		

> what is this for and it is brid seed for goats ?


BOSS is black oil sunflower seeds..  They're pretty high in protein (>20%), but the fat content is generally what makes it valuable to goatkeepers..  The fat is what I'm after in this case, too..

BOSS is (are?  ) around 50% fat..  If your goat is has a rough, dry coat, itchy or flaky skin, dandruff, or any of that kind of bad stuff, BOSS is supposed to help tremendously at improving skin condition and slicking the coat.  That's just what I need for this one particular ornery goat right now..  

Bear in mind that I have other goats that I wouldn't let near BOSS because I have to work like fighting fire to keep them from being absolutely obese..  So, one -- maybe two -- will get BOSS, and if I do it right, the rest will never know such a thing exists.

See, the way I look at feeding is that hay/graze/browse are the primary diet, and everthing else is a supplement.  So BOSS, like grain, is a supplement.  Supplemental feed, to me, is a tool.  Therefore, I'm looking at BOSS as another tool.  

I don't use tools unless I have a reason.  

Something else that I think is important to point out is that it may be a little dangerous to use BOSS on bucks..  Not to replace goat-labeled grain or any part thereof, that is..  Everything I've read suggests BOSS to be about a 1:7 Ca ratio, which is WAY OFF the 2:1 Ca ratio suggested for goat ration.  Even adding a little BOSS to the grain could throw off the ratio and put a buck at risk for UC..  Not good.

I might -- _might_ -- consider adding BOSS to alfalfa pellets for bucks, considering alfalfa is generally 6 or 7:1, Ca..  Even then, though, I'd have to get the nutritional information and break it down by weight..  

Just thought I'd throw that out there, as it's not something you hear a whole lot about in regard to BOSS..  It's easy to consider it an 'extra' that's more or less harmless, but I'm sure there was a time when shell corn or a little barley or whatever was thought of in much the same way.....


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## cmjust0 (Feb 17, 2010)

Just called my local SS...they have a 20lb for $8 and a 40lb for $15..  Also called TSC (...shudder...) and they have a 40lb for $14.

I pretty much hate SS, and I despise TSC, so it looks like I'll be going with the feedmill at $14.50/50lbs.  A little spendier than you lucky folks are getting it, but still somewhat within reason for a bag of feed.

Also...to Mini-M...duly noted on the solid black vs. striped varieties.  I'll be sure to double check.


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## Lil Chickie Mama (Feb 17, 2010)

Yep, it's a local thing.  My local feedstore sells BOSS for about $6/50# bag and TSC sells the same weight for $14.  I've seen it at Walmart in a 15# bag for $8  I don't know what mine says, I just asked for BOSS and didn't look at the tag, but it is BOSS only.


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## lupinfarm (Feb 17, 2010)

I bought my 25kg bag at Costco LOL... Its cheaper than the 25kg bags at the feed mill which cost in around $25 a bag!! I pay about $14 for my costco BOSS. I give my goats 2 scoops (the ones that come with Cortaflex Pellets) a day in their feed with a scoop (same scoop from Cortaflex) of their mineral since they're hellbent on destroying any mineral I put in their house.


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## the simple life (Feb 17, 2010)

I wish I could get it cheaper around here.
I buy the black oil sunflower seeds for my chickens, helps give them nice glossy feathers and they love them as treats.
The local feed store is almost $25.00 for a 25lb bag and walmart wasn't any better.
The one goat that I wanted to eat it for her coat will not go near the stuff, she use to take it from my hand then use her tounge to push it out of her mouth, now she won't even take it from my hand.
Too bad the dog salon down the street that advertises hot oil treatments don't do goats.


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## Lil Chickie Mama (Feb 17, 2010)

the simple life said:
			
		

> Too bad the dog salon down the street that advertises hot oil treatments don't do goats.


HAHA I'd almost try this to see if they would!  Then again a goat (prey animal) in a room full of dogs would probably be too stressed out...  Wonder if you could just go to the beauty supply store and get some hot oil treatment and bring it home...or if that's a bad idea too, I wouldn't know.


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## the simple life (Feb 18, 2010)

That would be funny to walk into a dog shop and try to pass a goat off as a dog. A very, very rare breed, in fact that is why they have never seen one like it.
I could act all insulted when they question me about it.


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## aggieterpkatie (Feb 18, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Also...to Mini-M...duly noted on the solid black vs. striped varieties.  I'll be sure to double check.


The gray strip sunflower seed would be GSSS, not BOSS.  It's a different type of seed, so if you buy black oil you're golden.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 18, 2010)

Here's a dumb question....anybody ever try to _plant_ BOSS in the garden?

My wife usually grows a big patch of sunflowers, mostly for the heck of it, but she also cuts them down to bring the goats as a treat..

They  whole sunflower stalks..  

I know it wouldn't be economical to try to actually produce BOSS for yourself since it's so cheap to buy, but if we're gonna grow some mostly for the goats anyway...and if we already have the BOSS...reckon it might work just to plant some of the BOSS and bring those in to the goats?

Part of me doubts the germination rate would be very high, but then again, I've seen some pretty weird stuff come up in the soil around birdfeeders..


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## ksalvagno (Feb 18, 2010)

Certainly couldn't hurt to try. If you are going to plant them anyway, may as well be ones that are really good for the goats. We were thinking about it but will have to see if we have any room left once all the veggies are planted. Our first year for planting a larger garden with several vegetables.


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## freemotion (Feb 18, 2010)

simple life, could it be that your supply of BOSS got a little mildew on it, which you wouldn't see because BOSS is black?  I had that happen to me once.

I decided to grow some a couple of years ago.  I figured they are cool looking and fun, and I could hang the heads from the rafters to dry if I didn't feel like rubbing all those seeds out.

I planted 50 or 60 and they sprouted very quickly.  I got the seeds in packets, though.  But I've sprouted BOSS from the birdseed bag in the past, and it sprouts quite readily.

The squirrels ate almost all my seedlings.  One survived and grew a gigantic flower, the biggest I've ever seen.  This plant was more like a tree!

I excitedly cut it down in the fall and set it in the garage to dry, out of the fall rains.  I checked it daily, just in case the mice or squirrels were to find it.

One day, I saw some seeds on the floor near it, and turned it over to find that a mouse had worked on one corner.  Yet the missing seeds were nearby and intact.

So I opened a seed.  Empty.  Opened another.  Empty.  The entire seed head contained huge, empty shells!

Biology 101:  Flowers need to be fertilized by another flower in order to make seeds.....


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## cmjust0 (Feb 18, 2010)

fm said:
			
		

> Biology 101:  Flowers need to be fertilized by another flower in order to make seeds.....


Very true!    

We don't get much 'predation' of seedlings or plants the garden..  Coons eat the corn ears sometimes, but we don't get much in the way of deer or squirrels or rabbits or whatever messing around with the actual foliage...  

The birds do work on the sunflowers, though.  If we plant BOSS, we might do the paperbag thing to keep the birds off.  

My wife grows really interesting sunflowers every year..  Red and other multicolored ones, giant ones, varieties with HUGE flower heads..  We had sunflowers last year that were easily 12'+ in height and had stalks that were 4-5" in diameter at the ground..  

Our goats love it when you cut off a flowerhead before the seeds harden, break it into pieces, and hand feed them..  Greedy little om nom noms, the lot of'em.


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## lupinfarm (Feb 18, 2010)

My chickens sprouted some BOSS seeds by accident last summer LOL. My little EE's were terrified of the BOSS and wouldn't eat it and I couldn't just pick it al out of the bedding so I left it, and the last week they were in the little coop I just left the bedding so I could take it out after and the boss started to sprout! And of course, that is when the chickies decided to start eating it LOL. It sprouted in pure chicken manure!


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## aggieterpkatie (Feb 18, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Here's a dumb question....anybody ever try to _plant_ BOSS in the garden?


The wild birds have planted plenty BOSS in the flowerbeds for me.  The seeds that fall from the feeder sprout really well.  We moved last year, and I threw my bird feeders in the bed of the truck.  Seed spilled everywhere. Didn't think anything of it, and later loaded the truck with mulch.  Let me tell ya, I ended up planting quite a bit of seed in the mulch.   Here's a picture  of one section of it.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 18, 2010)

WOW!


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## Roll farms (Feb 19, 2010)

We get volunteer BOSS plants all over, since I feed it to the birds (chickens, that is...local wildlife is on their own) and goats... and my daughter never met a feed bucket she couldn't spill some out of between Point A and Point B.

2 years ago it went up to 20$ per 50# at TSC and I had to wean them off of it....And I did notice Hillary went from "Copper Penny" to "dull brown" during that time.

I get it for $11-something w/ my discount and a bag lasts me about 3 weeks.  

All our adult goats are fed the same ration, just in differing amounts depending on season / condition...it's 40% sweet mix, 30% corn, 20% ADM 36% dairy goat concentrate, and 10% BOSS....with a 1 gallon scoop of goat mineral, a scoop of kelp, and a scoop of probiotic powder on top.

(Those last 3 are also fed free choice.)

The bucks get a pinch of AC daily.

CM, not ALL TSC's are bad....just the ones where I don't work...


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## cmjust0 (Feb 19, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> All our adult goats are fed the same ration, just in differing amounts depending on season / condition...it's 40% sweet mix, 30% corn, 20% ADM 36% dairy goat concentrate, and 10% BOSS....with a 1 gallon scoop of goat mineral, a scoop of kelp, and a scoop of probiotic powder on top.


Um..

You just confused the heck out of me..  I was like, "Wait a minute...40+30+20+36+10 = 136%!!"

Now I see...20% of the total ration is "ADM 36% dairy goat concentrate."     Duh, right?!?  



> CM, not ALL TSC's are bad....just the ones where I don't work...


For a while, I thought we were lucky to have a "goat lady" as a manager at our TSC..  She'd stock special stuff from time to time, like the gray nipples from caprine supply, X30 disbudding irons, hoof rasps, etc.  'Goat stuff' with hand-written SKU tags on it; not something you'd find at other TSCs, or probably any other feed/supply store in the area.

Then one day she told me alfalfa pellets caused urinary calculi because they had so much calcium in them, and pointed me to Purina noble goat feed, saying I could feed as much of it to a buckling as I wanted with no worries because it was formulated to PREVENT urinary calculi.

I explained my reasoning for wanting alfalfa pellets to _avoid_ calculi...the whole Ca thing, and how calcium helps the body take up phosphorus, MAP stones, why Purina formulated their feed why they did, why I thought alfalfa pellets would be _better_ since they're like *6:1* Ca versus the 2:1 balance in Purina, etc....and she pretty much immediately noted that she'd recently sold out of goats because she basically couldn't take it anymore.  She'd lost a show doe to what she could only figure was milk fever a few weeks after kidding, and that was apparently the last straw for her.  Someone came along shortly thereafter and offered her a lump sum for the whole herd and she jumped all over the opportunity to be OUT of goats altogether.

Sooooooo...  Hey, now that I think of it, there's an opening for a "goat lady" at _my_ TSC.  Wanna transfer?  Central Kentucky is awfully nice.  You'll like it here, I promise.


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## Roll farms (Feb 19, 2010)

Dude....I'm only there 2 days a week....that wouldn't pay for the move.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 19, 2010)

Two days?!?  

You're doing the goatkeepers in your area a great disservice, ya know..  You should be there open->close, 7 days a week, if only for consultation.


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## dianneS (Feb 19, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Also, I noticed that it was pretty expensive when I last checked...like $15+ for a 25lb bag at Wal-Mart.  Pound for pound, that's more than four times as much as I pay for 16% medicated goat grain..  Yikes..
> 
> Then I thought, hey, maybe it's a feedmill item?  So I checked with mine today and, sure enough, they have it.  It's _much_ cheaper there, too -- $14.50 for a 50lb bag.  Less than half the cost of Wal Mart.


I've recently noticed that the price of BOSS has dropped for some reason.  I wonder what affects the market price of sunflower seeds?  Maybe there is a birdseed and/or a livestock grade?  It does seem that feed mills are cheaper.  Even less than TSC.


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## Roll farms (Feb 19, 2010)

Shhh...I only work there for the discount / chicken and goat contacts.

Don't tell my boss.

As far as consultation, don't you worry, they have no qualms about handing out my card to ANYONE w/ a critter question and telling them to 'Call Kim, she'd know'...or they'll call and ask me, "What did you say people can give barn cats w/ runny eyes, again???"

It's hard being the only person there who knows animals besides horses.

And who do you think gets stuck w/ chick detail?  As if, by running a small scale hatchery out of my house, I don't clean up after enough chickens???


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## ksalvagno (Feb 19, 2010)

I find it interesting that any TSC around us, the only people that seem knowledgeable are the women. There are one or two particular women that you want to talk to there, otherwise, forget it.


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## dianneS (Feb 20, 2010)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> I find it interesting that any TSC around us, the only people that seem knowledgeable are the women. There are one or two particular women that you want to talk to there, otherwise, forget it.


Same here!  The woman know all about the animal stuff, the men are better for the fencing and building supplies.


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## lupinfarm (Feb 20, 2010)

lmfao I don't think either gender is good for anything at our TSC. 

They're all townies and know absolutely nothing about animals. Or building/construction LOL


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## the simple life (Feb 20, 2010)

I don't have any TSC around here but we have a couple of small feed stores owned by local people.
The problem I have is they each have their own one way of doing things and that is all they recommend no matter how outdated it is.
One store is run by all women and I have a terrible time with them telling me what we need instead of just letting me get what I want.
I don't mean to sound ungrateful but when my husband makes a feed run for me he always comes back with the wrong thing because when he goes in and asks for a particular thing they always ask him what its for and then tell him its the wrong thing and send him home with what they consider what I should be feeding my animals.
It drives me absolutely insane.
I explained that now we have to waste gas and drive back and return it and not to second guess me since I have spent a long time researching every animal and their needs before we bring one home.

It took him a long time to understand that I know more than most of these people do about what I should be feeding my animals.

Why do the clerks always have to ask what its for when we order our stuff at the register.

I swear it would be so much easier if you could just pick up the bags you need and bring them to the register but they don't have the room for that so you have to tell them what you want at the register and pay for it then they bring it out front.

When I go in and they ask I tell them its what I came for and am not interested in something else.
I swear that they try to get rid of their overstock, soon to expire feed this way, they push it on you.
One woman at the feed store who doesn't own any goats always tries to tell me what the other woman that owns goats in our area buys for hers, like thats all you should buy.
The thing is if what I am buying is not what they think I should feed my animals why do they stock it?

The other feed store is owned and operated solely by this older gentleman who gets very annoyed if you don't go along with what he tells you.
If you ask him to special order an item he will say what do you want that for and then tell me I don't need that.
I would love to have someone knowledgeable working at the feedstores around here.


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## freemotion (Feb 20, 2010)

tsl, I also really enjoy this.   I can't tell you how many times a feedstore employee....or owner....has told me sternly that I will kill all my poultry by feeding them whole grains (low profit item, apparently.)  I now just ask how many years it will take for them to die, since it has been several years since I switched.

Then they tell me that egg production will go down.    I've just told them I've been feeding whole grains for several years.  Isn't the next logical response, "Really?  Have you seen a drop in egg production?"  Sheesh!


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## the simple life (Feb 21, 2010)

That is exactly the kind of stuff I get from them.
I always feel like they are trying to get me to buy the more expensive feed.
When I asked for a bag of shredded beet root the woman said "you mean for horses" because she knows I do not have horses and she was trying to make a point that I have no business purchasing it for any other animals.
So I leaned into the counter and said yes, ring it in please.
She was ticked off and I knew it because she wanted to lecture me so bad and I cut her off.


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## dianneS (Feb 21, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> tsl, I also really enjoy this.   I can't tell you how many times a feedstore employee....or owner....has told me sternly that I will kill all my poultry by feeding them whole grains (low profit item, apparently.)  I now just ask how many years it will take for them to die, since it has been several years since I switched.
> 
> Then they tell me that egg production will go down.    I've just told them I've been feeding whole grains for several years.  Isn't the next logical response, "Really?  Have you seen a drop in egg production?"  Sheesh!


I'm lucky my TSC staffers don't meddle in my business that much.  Funny I've been feeding whole grains for years too and it hasn't killed or impacted my chickens egg production either.

I've used the processed layer feeds in the past and I hate them (the chickens love them).  They make my chickens poop like a cat with the runs!  My henhouse stinks to high heaven when I feed that stuff.  Their poops stink, and its nasty and runny and really aweful to find it on the back porch!  That can't possibly be good for them?


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## the simple life (Feb 21, 2010)

I agree, I can see a big difference in the smell when I change feeds.
Purina is the worst for that, the stuff from the mill is much better.
Do you mix your own feed then from various grains or do you get them milled?
I have been getting the mill mix but I am thinking of just buying the grains and making my own layer feed.


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## freemotion (Feb 21, 2010)

I get whole grains and mix them myself.  My mix depends on what I can get, since availability is a challenge here, so far from the grain fields.

I feed them whole or soaked/sprouted, depending.  I seem to change it up a lot!   But they are all thriving and producing, so........


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## dianneS (Mar 2, 2010)

Okay, there must be something effecting the market price of BOSS.  I noticed about a month ago that the feed mills had them much cheaper than TSC.

Yesterday I was at TSC and they had 50 pound bags for $15.99.  Last year a 20 pound bag cost nearly that much!  This was the "bird seed" grade too.  Very same brand.

I wonder what effects the pricing?  Maybe in this economy, people can't even afford to feed the birds!    Tough luck birdies, you are on your own, no more gravy train for you!   Perhaps this has caused a surplus of BOSS??

I'll have to check the price of nyger seed too, that stuff is usually pretty expensive, maybe its come down in price?  Its the only thing I can find that attracts finches.


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## ksalvagno (Mar 2, 2010)

BOSS at TSC is cheaper here than at the feed stores. I paid $20 for a 40 pound bag at my local feed mill and paid $15 for a 40 pound bag at TSC. They were different brands but the same thing.


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## dianneS (Mar 2, 2010)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> BOSS at TSC is cheaper here than at the feed stores. I paid $20 for a 40 pound bag at my local feed mill and paid $15 for a 40 pound bag at TSC. They were different brands but the same thing.


That's strange.  TSC has had significantly higher prices on BOSS just up until recently.  Perhaps the recent ads from the feedmills has caused them to lower their prices to remain competitive?

Needless to say, I got some BOSS for my horses, I like to supplement them when their winter coats are coming out and their summer coats coming in.  They get corn oil through the winter.  Anyway, my mare doesn't want to eat her feed now!  She used to love BOSS and oats, but now I'm mixing in a 10% sweet feed, which she LOVES!  Maybe the sweet feed is too diluted now with the BOSS?  I don't know, she'll just have to get over it!


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