# "Ick" - the dry cough with no other symptoms



## Livinwright Farm (Aug 3, 2011)

This thread is to discuss anything relating to this oddity that has started popping up, primarily in the show world.

Ick, as it has been being called, has not been identified as any particular disease, as of yet.  There is no known cause, and no known cure.

It resembles lungworm to a point. 

If treated for lungworm, and the cough still does not go away, then you can be sure that it is "ick".

Levamisole/Levasole/Levamisol has been found to be the best treatment for lungworm(cough disappears within 24hrs VS. a week or more with Safeguard or Ivermectin), however, Levamisole is "on backorder", ever since some druggies decided to use it to cut cocaine, and said cocaine caused a flesh eating "disease" in those who used it.


Now that I have posted up the gist of what I have read on this strange thing called "ick", I will say, it appears that my 2 doelings have somehow contracted this oddity, we have treated with Safeguard & Ivermectin and so far, no improvement.

Anyone else here been seeing this in their herds or friends' herds?


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## ksalvagno (Aug 3, 2011)

I haven't heard about it but has anyone tried an antibiotic if wormers don't work? Like Draxxin which really works well for lung infections?

Is there any temp associated with it? Have the goats been tested for Mycoplasma?


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## Goatmasta (Aug 3, 2011)

interstitial pneumonia would be my guess.  I have never heard of "ick" in goats, however fish do get "ick".  Many people in the "show world" refer to the sickness that you invariably get on some occasion at a show as "ick" because that it varies as to what the sickness maybe, and who may have brought it.  "Ick" would be slang for any sickness brought home from a show.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 3, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

> interstitial pneumonia would be my guess.  I have never heard of "ick" in goats, however fish do get "ick".  Many people in the "show world" refer to the sickness that you invariably get on some occasion at a show as "ick" because that it varies as to what the sickness maybe, and who may have brought it.  "Ick" would be slang for any sickness brought home from a show.


x2 on the fish "ick".  Had friends who raised fish and that's a term.  I've been reading up about "shows".  I will be attending one in September.   It states in everything I've read that you must isolate your animal after shows do to the exposure.  I guess since the people who attend the shows really do not know how many things their goats are exposed to, this is the term to cover everything?  They really don't know, so a new term comes up?  


Just my opinion.


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## elevan (Aug 4, 2011)

Considering that goatmasta (who goes to lots of shows) has never heard of ICK in goats...and I only came across one reference when I googled it (and it's what you quoted from) then I would conclude that it is an all inclusive slang term being used by someone who is unsure of what they are dealing with.

Sometimes prolonged exposure to lungworms without treatment will scar the lungs and can cause a lasting cough.  So if they waited too lung to treat the lungworms...they could have developed a permanent cough.

Another thing to consider when you have a dry cough is allergies (less common in goats but it does happen).  I have an older wether who has a confirmed allergy to certain pollens...and so during high pollen season he has a dry, hacking cough (along with some sneezing). From Fall to early Spring he is fine and without a cough.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 4, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

> interstitial pneumonia would be my guess.


Interstitial pneumonia is usually very acute, and very fatal.  


To the OP -- how did you use the Ivermectin?  Orally?


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## redtailgal (Aug 4, 2011)

x


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 4, 2011)

Let's not overreact.  The OP stated she used ivomec, and a question was asked how it was administered.  There are lots of types of ivomec, so I see it as a totally reasonable question.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 4, 2011)

I asked because studies have proven that ivermectin isn't absorbed very well into the bloodstream of a goat when given orally.  Having said that, my thinking is that if the OP gave the ivermectin orally, there exists the possibility that it didn't reach high enough blood concentrations to be effective against lungworms, considering lungworms do not live in the GI tract.  Just trying to help rule something out.

That's all.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, people.


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## elevan (Aug 4, 2011)

I _believe_ given previous discussions I've had with Livinwright Farm that she administered the Ivomec via injection as the treatment was for what she believed to be lungworms and was advised by several people that treatment for lungworms should be given via injection.


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## Goatmasta (Aug 4, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> Goatmasta said:
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Often times you are assigned pens, so you don't have a choice of healthy looking neighbors.  As in our case we usually have multiple pens, each pen with different neighbors and potentially different s"ick"nesses.  Then when the show is over.....  well we load ALL of our goats into THE trailer for a normally long ride home.  so whatever s"ick"ness each pen might have been exposed to is now passed around to all of our goats.  It is very possible to be dealing with multiple issues.  
  Generally we don't have big issues, any babies that we take are the most susceptible.  But if you go to a lot of shows, you will eventually come home with sick goats.
  As far as the  interstitial pneumonia goes, Kate and I have been consulted by 3 of our show buddies who have bought babies from the same breeder (not us) that have all come down with interstitial pneumonia.  We have followed this for the last several months and I know the symptoms very well.  Fever: maybe usually not, but it will spike and go right back down, Cough: usually but not always, Condition: poor "hard keeper", hair-loss, etc...  The chances of survival are good if treated.  One case all survived (this person acted quickly), another case 50% were lost (much slower reaction time).  All of the kids were right around 3 months old when the symptoms appeared.  It was estimated by more than one vet that they had it for several weeks.


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## redtailgal (Aug 4, 2011)

c


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## Goatmasta (Aug 4, 2011)

We do our best to be at the show very early.  If possible we try to be the first ones there, USUALLY if you are one of the first they will allow you to pick your pen(s).  Then we try to get a block of pens so that we only have 1 or maybe 2 pens next to somebody.  Also, if you know of someone else that will be there you can work together to shield yourselves.  

  Really, don't be skeered...  It's not like you end up with a load of sick goats every time you go to a show.  It happens occasionally.  It isn't much different than you going to a crowded mall.


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## Roll farms (Aug 4, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> Well, this is a scary thread for me.
> 
> I am maybe getting a few boer does next month, and with the help of my newest goatie mentor friend, am hoping to show at some local meat shows and MAYBE a local breed show. I dunno, I'm sorta  cowardly.  I'm skeerd. Dont want to bring home any cooties and end up with a bunch of sick critters.
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RTG, that's one of the reasons I choose not to show.  I have enough stuff to deal with w/out needing to treat / isolate / quarantine any from showing them.  I don't have the pen space for it and don't want to risk it.  Just my opinion, I am not knocking those who choose to.  Heaven knows I could sell for more $ if I had a wall full o' ribbons.

Some of my friends who do show swear by Bovi Serum, recommended in Hoegger's catalog, also available through Jeffers.  They also isolate them when they return from shows for 30 days at least, one girl keeps her show herd at a completely different location and only brings them 'home' after the show season is over.

http://www.colorado-serum.com/csc/bovi_sera.html

Supposedly if given before exposure it will help keep them from getting sick, and it can be used to treat it if they do get sick.  (I've never understood how, but hey...if it works, I don't need to know how.  I dunno how my tv works, but I still watch it.   )

The worse round of URI we've ever had here came from a kid who'd been shown.  Went through all our kids that year.  Didn't lose any, but...I don't like seeing them sick.


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## Livinwright Farm (Aug 11, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Goatmasta said:
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I dosed orally. Originally with Ivomec 1% injectable for cattle, but then the vet told us that that burns their esophogus.  The vet injected(poor little Olivia screamed for a good 5 minutes). Then I dosed with Ivomec sheep drench(at double the dose, for goats).

I want to add, that I have not been on here for a few weeks, and have no way of knowing who said what or how recently they said it. We are all entitled to our own opinions on how to treat our animals, and must respect each other's decisions, regardless of whether or not we agree.  I would never deliberately say anything to blast another member's practices, especially after having my own sandblasted about a month ago.


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## Livinwright Farm (Aug 11, 2011)

I am not talking about fish ick...   I have fish, and trust me, my goats do not have fuzzy slimy white dots anywhere on their bodies! 

Like I said, the only symptom is the dry cough. There is no accompanying temp, no mucus, just the cough.  It is not Interstitial pneumonia... I can safely know this because: I am certain that one of the 3 different vets that my under 2 month old kids have seen would have known, diagnosed, and treated for it.  Given that the Ivermectins have not helped, the penacillin hasn't helped, and the only thing making it any better is giving them mullein & thyme tea to ease their bronchial tube and thus ease coughing, it is safe to assume that it is the mystery cough termed as "ick".


As I stated, this thing has not yet been identified as any particular disease, not even by vets or scientists, and there is no known cause, no known cure. The following link talks about it.  http://goats.wetpaint.com/page/Lungworm,+How+to+deal+with+it See the addendum.


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## redtailgal (Aug 11, 2011)

z


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm picturing goats with those surgical masks over their cute little noses at shows. So no one snots on each other. 

We went to a local fair this week. the goats were eating out of the neighboring pen, sharing hay, sharing water. YUCK - forget being sanitary.

I'm glad I chose not to show my goats.


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## Goatmasta (Aug 11, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> cmjust0 said:
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If you want to use the "Sheep drench".....   The dosage on the bottle is delivering 200mcg/kg of body weight.  If it were me, I would 3x the dose, that will put you in the 600 mcg/kg of body weight range which is very effective and little chance of building resistance.  Personally I dose between 500 - 800 mcg/kg of body weight, usually I am right around the 600-700 mark.


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## Livinwright Farm (Aug 13, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

> If you want to use the "Sheep drench".....   The dosage on the bottle is delivering 200mcg/kg of body weight.  If it were me, I would 3x the dose, that will put you in the 600 mcg/kg of body weight range which is very effective and little chance of building resistance.  Personally I dose between 500 - 800 mcg/kg of body weight, usually I am right around the 600-700 mark.


I do, since it is what our vet said to use, aside from them giving Ivermectin shots(never again on a kid under 6 months, can't stand to hear them screaming in pain). The vet, and our local state certified herd health care provider(gives shots, does hoof trimming, takes blood samples), said to use double the dosage on goat kids than you would use on sheep. And also said, it might have a fairly wide margin of safety, but one never wants to risk losing a kid to overdosing.


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## Livinwright Farm (Aug 13, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> Hi there Livinwright.
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> It's nice to see you again!
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I found it equally: interesting, gross, and comical 

So far we have had the best success with Olivia. We gave her 1 cup of Mullien & Thyme tea. I harvested & dried the mullien(about 2 Tbsp dried), used 1-2 Tbsp of thyme, boiled loose in 1.5 cups of water for 5 minutes, removed from heat and let set for additional 3 minutes, then strained into the bottle and let her drink as much as she wanted.

Mullien is a great wild herb for dry hacking coughs, because it contains mucilage, which creates a thin layer of mucus in the lungs & airways, thus soothing throat irritation & cough.
Thyme is a great herb to clear congestive cough, because it acts as an expectorant & an antiseptic and also relieves bronchial spasms. (the later being the reason it was used in treatment of this mystery viral cough)


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