# Zebu calf not eating



## newbiekat (May 27, 2017)

I have a 3 week old zebu calf that we got when she was a week old. She was on momma for that week before so she got all of her colostrum. Since we got her we have tried getting her on the bottle but she refuses to suck. We have a lamb nipple but she doesn't seem to know how to suck! She just wallers her tongue around the nipple! We have gotten her to take about 3/4 of a PINT each feeding (2-3x a day) but like I said, she's not sucking! I've cut the opening of the nipple to where it flows pretty freely so she doesn't have to suck and I've figured out that if I put the nipple to the corner of her mouth she will chew on it, and enough will flow out that she will swallow what flows into her mouth, but once she's over it, she's done, and that's usually about a 1/2 to 3/4 of a pint! But she shows no interest in the bottle. It's been about two weeks since we have had her and she still doesn't perk up when she sees a bottle, I have to catch her every time and hold her. I have to straddle her and open her mouth to get the bottle in every time and she just sits there until her mouth gets full then swallows. After that first swallow she will chew on the nipple and get more, but never more than 3/4 of a pint. I'm worried because she is getting thin. She still gets up and walks around, she's not lethargic, she's just skinny and I'm getting worried. I just don't know what to do!!

Idk if this is important or not, but we also have goats, and we have been feeding her goat's milk, warming it up thinking maybe having warm milk is better than cold. Also, she seems to like the goat feed that we put in the trough too. I don't think she is eating a bunch of it, but she is nibbling.

Any advice is welcome!


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## Latestarter (May 28, 2017)

@farmerjan @greybeard @jhm47 @cjc and I know there are some others out there. Hope the calf comes around.


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## mysunwolf (May 28, 2017)

My first thought is that she may just not like goats milk, and there is nothing wrong with feeding a high-quality replacer (one that actually has all milk solids). Second thought is to put some molasses on the nipple and then try moving the bottle back and forth as if she was sucking on it. I've had some success getting day-olds to start their "suck" this way. Third thought it, how big is the area she's in? We try to keep new bottle calves in a barn stall or some smaller area for the first few weeks because it helps them get acclimated to the new routine of bottle feeding and human interaction, and keeps their stress down since you're not chasing them around as much.

Good luck, hope you can get her to start sucking soon. Our full-sized bottle calves get 4 pints, twice daily!


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## farmerjan (May 28, 2017)

I don't know if there is any problems with zebu's....but there is a syndrome in brown swiss that once they suck a cow, they would rather die than take a bottle.  One of my farmers that raises reg brown swiss was telling me about it because I had alot of trouble getting a swiss to take a bottle.They watch their cows that are due to calve and never let the calves suck the cow when born.  They milk the colostrum and bottle feed it from the beginning.  We also had some major trouble years ago when there was a terrible drought down south and there were truckloads of baby calves that were taken off cows that were sent to slaughter.  Most had brahma influence in them, and we had a terrible time getting them to suck bottles.  Most were 2-4 weeks old.  Some never did take a bottle and we fed them the best feed we could but they were very slow to come around.

Now, I am not saying that is the problem.  Just some of what I have seen and been told and experienced first hand.

Is the calf drinking any water?  If so, you need to put electrolytes in the water to help keep up her strength.  Have you tried a little milk  in a bucket?  Some calves just like a bucket...Also, a shot of Vit B-complex will help with appetite stimulant.  That is available over the counter.
Next, I would try a good milk replacer.  And yes, warm milk is necessary, never cold.  When you straddle the calf, put the nipple in her mouth and push and pull it in and out like a mini plunger.  Don't let her chew on it.  You may also have made the nipple hole too big.  And make sure the air hole that lets air into the bottle isn't clogged ao she is like sucking on a vacuum... They need to have to suck and not let the milk pour down their throat.  I realize that you are trying everything you can to get her to get the milk but sometimes we make it too easy and by it pouring down their throat it doesn't trigger the sucking response.

The thing of it is, that at 3 weeks, you may never get her to suck now.  Have you ever had a goat foster a calf?  Do you put them on a stand to milk?  I have a friend that actually has a couple of calves that suck the goat directly.  Maybe the calf would do that?  I am all for trying any unconventional way to get an animal to eat.  I thought it was kinda crazy, but the calves she did this with were both premies and it seemed to give them the incentive to suck.  They look so silly with the goat on the stand and one on each teat, but the goat just eats her grain with an "oh what I do for my owner" look that you have to laugh.

If she is eating some grain then I would also get the best quality calf starter and let her eat it free choice if you still can't get her to suck.  Sometimes sprinkling some milk replacer powder on the grain helps.  Also, try some of the probiotic pastes that are available,to get the bacteria in her stomach working which might actually help to make her feel hungry.

The only other option is tube feeding her and if you are not experienced at it you could accidentally get it into her lungs and drown her.  But, it is an option that most of us have used when we have a calf too weak to suck.  At this point, I would consult my vet and see if they have any other options. Other than trying to continue on the way you are, getting some milk into her, I am thinking that she may just need to get her nutrition through actual feed if you can't get her to drink any better.

One question, why was she pulled off the mother at a week?  That is perhaps the worst timing to do that unless the mother died.  They seem to have an imprint issue and when we have had baby calves that for what ever reason came off the cow at 1-3 weeks, they are the hardest to get to take a bottle.


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## newbiekat (May 28, 2017)

@mysunwolf I have tried the molasses on the nipple, still nothing. The area she is in is probably 20x30 area, she doesn't move much. Gets up and moves to a new spot to lay down and sleep.. but that's a calf for ya... She doesn't really run away from me, just kinda scoots, so I have to grab hold of her. She won't just stay put so I can grab her.

@farmerjan I have heard about the brown swiss. I wonder if it's a thing with zebu's too... 

She is in an area where there is water, but I have not physically seen her drink any water. Would she be drinking water this young? I have not tried a bucket, maybe I will try that.

I have given her a shot of Vit B Complex, still nothing. But I have seen her pee and poop, so that's a good thing.

I have tried the plunger motion, but she just kinda sits there still, doesn't react to the motion at all, and lets the milk run out of her mouth. I am going to pick up another nipple from the farm store Tuesday and cut it open less to see if she will suck now.

The farmer I got her from is transitioning a 5 wk old to a bottle (to sell to us), and he said he has had no problem with her transitioning, so idk what it could be, maybe she has no friends here? She does seem kinda depressed. Hence the reason we are getting the other calf. We just have goats here who don't want anything to do with her, so I'm wondering if she is depressed. 

I have thought about her sucking on one of my goats, when we first got her, she did seem interested in them.. But as goats typically are, they aren't too fond of her, actually, I think they're kind of scared of her  Maybe I will try that, and get one on the stand and see if she will suck.

I have thought about tube feeding her, but she's still lively, and moves around enough, she isn't lethargic or anything. I just think she doesn't have the motivation to eat. I honestly think she is eating JUST enough to survive, because she has to. She has definitely lost weight this last week, which causes me to be concerned, but I was able to drench her with a quart of milk this morning and a pint this evening, so she has enough in her. I think if that's what it takes, I may have to drench her for a while just to make sure she gets the nutrition from the milk. 

If she never takes to the bottle, I mean, if I'm having to drench her to get milk in her, *what is the earliest she can be weaned?*

She was pulled off the cow (as far as I know), because the farmer and his wife are having a baby and they know that they will have to stay in the hospital for several weeks once the baby is born (and that is coming up pretty soon). He just bought his brothers cattle, and she unexpectedly had this calf, so he knew he wouldn't have time to care for a bottle calf when they were in the hospital several hours away for several weeks.


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## farmerjan (May 29, 2017)

I admire that you have tried so many different things and it sounds as if you do know what you are doing with bottle calves.  It may just be that she is isolated from any and everything that she knew and is grieving.  Some do.  More often in a cow that lost a calf but ...
I hope that the other calf will help her to want to live.  
I cannot judge any one elses  decisions, but if the farmer bought his brothers herd, the cow had the calf and he was worried about having a bottle calf, why not just leave it on the cow while he was going to be unable to bottle feed?  I mean, that is what they do, raise their calf.  Since I have never had Zebu's maybe there is something I am unaware of.  
Calves on dairies can be weaned as soon as 4-6 weeks if they are eating a calf ration and drinking water.  I would try to contain her in a stall or something at least 12 hours of the day, so you can monitor her eating and drinking.  Yes I have seen calves as young as 2 weeks with their heads in the water trough and actually swallowing.  Mostly I think they are tasting and playing, but she might be drinking some by instinct.   Try penning her so you can keep an eye on what she is actually drinking and eating.  
Other than the drenching to get her to stay alive, I am not really sure what else to suggest.  She probably wouldn't even transition to a nurse cow at this point.
Maybe if you get this other calf, she will take an interest in the bottle but that is a long shot.

Keep us posted.  Good Luck with her.


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## greybeard (May 29, 2017)

The crux of the story:


newbiekat said:


> I have a 3 week old zebu calf that we got when she was a week old. She was on momma for that week before so she got all of her colostrum. Since we got her we have tried getting her on the bottle but she refuses to suck.
> .......
> It's been about two weeks since we have had her.
> .........
> ...



She sucked (according to the first part of the above quote) on her momma for a week.
She is not sucking on a bottle of goat milk, has shown zero interest in it and hasn't since you got her.
Time to go get a bag of good quality calf replacer (not soy) and try that instead of trying to make her like goat milk.
You need to figure this out before you end up with 2 calves that won't take a bottle, or worse, a dead calf..maybe 2 dead calves.
Ask the farmer you got her from what he is using to bottle feed the 2nd calf he is getting ready for you.
A trick I have seen work:
Ever wonder how a calf knows it's momma and vice versa in a whole herd of look-alike cows and calves? Scent.
If the farmer is nearby and still has the momma of your present calf, and the farmer will allow you to, go over with a pair of NEW cheap absorbent gloves. (Not plastic or leather--leather has permanent oils from the tanning process that will   interfere with the goal and plastic gloves aren't absorbent)
Put the gloves on, with no fragrances (perfume/cologne etc) on your hands. Rub your hands on the momma, and if possible milk a little from her, getting the milk on the gloves. Seal the gloves up in a good ziplock bag. Next feeding, get the bottle ready, take the gloves out of the ziplock bag, handle the bottle good with them (nipple excepted)  and let the calf get a good smell. Again, don't have any scent on you that would interfere with the natural scent of the momma. See if the calf will take the bottle. If yes, put the gloves back in the ziplock bag after you are done feeding the calf.


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## newbiekat (Jun 1, 2017)

She took to my goat!!!!! No problems whatsoever!! Now, my goat isn't too fond of it, but she doesn't kick her off when she's on the stand. She just takes it. She won't let her suck when they are put back in together, but that's okay. I don't mind getting my goat on the stand 2-3x a day to feed the calf because we do that already! I mean, there was no hesitation at all. She wanted the teat and that was that, she wasn't gonna settle for a bottle. She went to TOWN when she realized she was allowed to nurse the goat.

She is much more lively now, I even saw her run in with the goats right in the middle of them, tail up and everything!

She meets me in the barn every morning and night and knows what's happening now.

Thank you guys for your help, she may not be a bottle calf, but she's still getting fed, and doesn't care that it's goats milk!! And as long as she's getting fed, I am perfectly okay with whatever method it takes!


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## babsbag (Jun 1, 2017)

That is really good news. I have a friend that had a "bottle" calf nurse off of her goat. Pretty soon the goat will be on the stand and the calf will be on the ground beside the stand as there won't be enough room for both.    Will your goat be able to keep up with her demand for milk?  I have never raised a calf so no idea how much they need.


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## greybeard (Jun 1, 2017)

newbiekat said:


> She took to my goat!!!!! No problems whatsoever!!


One of those times I'm really glad I was wrong and it worked out!!

If you have the means to do so, I'd like to hear some updates along the way on her growth rate over the next few months.
Rate of Gain in weight in relation to estimated goat milk consumed if you can. $5 will buy a calf tape, so you won't actually have to weigh her. 
Just keep a note every week if you can and post it here along with any other feeds she is getting. It will make for an interesting experiment and a valuable record to have posted here at BYH.


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## frustratedearthmother (Jun 1, 2017)

Agree with Greybeard...would love to hear stats!  Do you have another goat because at some point I would guess that the goat won't be able to keep up with the calf's demands?


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 1, 2017)

Well I'll be darn
Never seen anything like that.


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## babsbag (Jun 1, 2017)

It would be interesting to see how she grows, I hope you will keep a record.

My friend that had hers on her goat was waiting for her heifer to freshen so she could foster this bull calf onto her and let her raise twins so she didn't use her goat for very long.  She had another calf a few months ago that wanted to suckle on her LGD that had recently weaned her pups. It had to be for comfort and not milk.


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## newbiekat (Jun 12, 2017)

babsbag said:


> Will your goat be able to keep up with her demand for milk?  I have never raised a calf so no idea how much they need.



Well, usually I would say yes, they can produce enough, but she is a FF, and isn't producing a ton, so I have her nursing two. Between the two of them she is definitely getting enough, and I milk out whatever they have left. We have two milk stands (so my hubby and I can milk at the same time) so my goats know how to come out two at a time. It's cute, because now, my two goats come out and she comes out with them, and stands next to the stand waiting for them to hop on so she can nurse!   The calf, whom we have lovingly named *DECAF*  now goes out in the tall pasture grass with the goats and runs with them, and acts like a goat! Mocha (the first goat she is nursing) has seemed to take a liking to her and though she still doesn't let her nurse in the pasture, seems to always be close to Decaf and looks out for her more than in the beginning! 



greybeard said:


> One of those times I'm really glad I was wrong and it worked out!!



ME TOO!!



greybeard said:


> If you have the means to do so, I'd like to hear some updates along the way on her growth rate over the next few months.
> Rate of Gain in weight in relation to estimated goat milk consumed if you can. $5 will buy a calf tape, so you won't actually have to weigh her.
> Just keep a note every week if you can and post it here along with any other feeds she is getting. It will make for an interesting experiment and a valuable record to have posted here at BYH.



I do not have a calf tape at the moment, but I do have a dairy goat tape. I'm sure that wont do the same thing, but that's all I have at the moment. I would love to keep track also. I can say that she has definitely gained weight and is more lively now than she was two weeks ago. Of course we got her a week before we went on vacation for a week and a half , so a friend of mine took care of our place while we were gone. In that time, Decaf definitely has gained some weight, not a ton, but enough that you can't always see her ribs, and she is more lively now than she was 2 weeks ago. Tail up, wagging, the whole 9 yards. Now we are working to halter break her. UGH! Fortunately she is still TINY so it's not as big of a deal as if she were a 200 lb calf.

Thanks for all the advice everyone!!


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## Simpleterrier (Jun 14, 2017)

When u tryed bottle feeding her did u try standing over her with her head out the front between your knees. Sometimes do that will cause them.to bend like they are sucking off of a cow and they will drink for you. You keep doing it until they get use to u feeding them then they will just come to u and drink. I have also rubbed their necks to get the milk go down seems to have worked . It's great that she has taken to your goats.


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