# Planning for Goats....am I being realistic?



## yourbadd (Dec 30, 2011)

I have set a goal for myself to have the funds and materials saved up by spring to get moving on my goat barn and enclosure.  I have read book after book and know that everyone has their own set rules for how much space is needed.  I wanted to get a realistic picture from folks who may have the obstacles we do.

My plan is to build a 10x30 shed/barn to house 2 mini dairy goats.  I don't have plans to keep a buck or any offspring until I need to replace a current milker.  I'm already the crazy chicken lady, I don't need the crazy goat lady title too!!  I was thinking of using a non-climbing horse fencing  48 inches high and giving them 625sq ft of running room.  We live close to 20 acres of wooded property and have seen a few coyotes off in the distance...will price electric fencing to step up security.  We have a large shepherd but he's my baby and I won't lose him to the goats!!

Questions:
1.  How much space will I need to store hay and grains?  Will there realistically be enough room in the barn for a storage area, milking area and 3 stalls?  (1 stall for each goat and 1 to keep kids separate)  

2. We won't have water or electric in the barn for a while....it is only 50 yards or so from the house to the proposed barn location, will I go mad hauling water?    

3. With no water and electricity do I dare milk in the barn?  Will we lose kids to cold and illness without access to heat lamps?  

4. What is the most important feature/item/etc.. you have or wish you had on/in your barn?

Any other suggestions or advise is most welcome!!


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## lilcritters (Dec 30, 2011)

I have a drop cord and light in my barn and milk by it. Hard to milk in the dark.... water hoses... EVERYWHERE around here. I soak corn for the pigs and keep it in the barn. I do well with no electric and water in my barn... always ways to get it there. I try not to have babies in the winter so heat lamps not needed. This year I had some in November so had to use the light. They ended up jumping up on it and busting the light soooo no light for them and they are doing fine in the barn. Don't really have an answer to the other questions...

April


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## Mamaboid (Dec 30, 2011)

yourbadd said:
			
		

> I have set a goal for myself to have the funds and materials saved up by spring to get moving on my goat barn and enclosure.  I have read book after book and know that everyone has their own set rules for how much space is needed.  I wanted to get a realistic picture from folks who may have the obstacles we do.
> 
> My plan is to build a 10x30 shed/barn to house 2 mini dairy goats.  I don't have plans to keep a buck or any offspring until I need to replace a current milker.  I'm already the crazy chicken lady, I don't need the crazy goat lady title too!!  I was thinking of using a non-climbing horse fencing  48 inches high and giving them 625sq ft of running room.  We live close to 20 acres of wooded property and have seen a few coyotes off in the distance...will price electric fencing to step up security.  We have a large shepherd but he's my baby and I won't lose him to the goats!!
> 
> ...


1.  How much space you will need depends on how you buy your feed and hay.  We have the luxury of being able to purchase only a few bales of hay at a time, so we don't need a lot of storage room.  Our feed we buy 100 pounds at a time and have a pick-up truck tool box that we use to store our grain in.

2.  Short answer is yes.  Hauling water is the biggest pain in the lower region I have in regards to my goats and chickens.  We have a barrel system set up to catch rain water in the summer, but during the winter months, these have to be dumped in order to keep them from freezing.  Unfortunately, for most small operations who cannot afford water systems in their barns or chicken coops, carrying water is a necessary part of the equation.  You just get used to it.

3.  The single most important improvement we have made in our chicken and goat houses is the addition of electricity.  The huts the goats are locked in at night do not have it, but we have it in our chicken house, and the kidding pen is in 1/2 of that building.  This pen is used for any ill, cold, just born, or in general any animal that needs special attention.  Most of the time we have no conflicts.

4.  As I said, Electrical access.  Oh, and ALWAYS build bigger than you think you will need, cause you will fill it.  You will be surprised how much you can do with an extra few feet.

Just my opinion, I am sure some of the folks with larger operations can tell you a few things that will help a lot more.  Good luck with your goats, we love ours.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 30, 2011)

we have had goats for 15 years kid out 15 to 25 does each winter, have No running water in barn, and NO electricity. We do run a couple electrical chords for heat lamps from the house in winter time, and we bucket water, or run hoses from the spicket when we can. 

In virginia we an have tempuratures in the teens in january and february, which is when we normally have our babies. So I think you will be just fine. 

Know we don't milk, so can't help you there. 

You can figure around 5 lbs of hay per day per goat for the winter months. your average bale is 45 to 50lbs, so a doe will go through around a bale every 10 days., so 3 bales a month per doe. ofcourse you wouldn't have to store your hay all winter, you could arrange to get 4 or 5 bales at a time from a near by farmer that stores it for you. 


I wish we had ventilation and fans in our barn, ofcourse that would reguire electricity. Good air circulation is important for a healthy barn. We just never close ours up. Even when we are having babies. 

The heat lamp barrels for babies kidding in the winter are fantastic, but I have seen other people using other designs with plastic tubs and small dog kennels. 

Invest in the black soft rubber plastic tubs for water, they don't freeze as easy and don't break if the water does freeze. 

A good hay feeder, to keep hay from being wasted and is safe for your goats, is important. And worth the effort of researching and building one.


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## yourbadd (Dec 31, 2011)

My biggest hurdle is our limited space.  We only have 2 acres.  That's why I am leaning towards pygmy goats and am looking for the smallest barn setup possible.  We already have a chicken coop on the opposite side of the property from where the goats will be placed so this structure will be only for the goats.  If, in the future I decide to add additional animals they'll get their own living space.   

Running electricity will be easy once we have the money to invest.  Last year the owners of the oil well that's at the back of our property switched over to an electric pump motor and had lines run back to it so there is a transformer over there that could easily be tapped into.
Water is another story.  Former owners switched over to county supplied water about 5 years ago.  There had been a well dug prior to that and we have a shallow well out front with a cast iron pump.   DH has a childhood friend who's in the well business, we may have to invite him up to investigate!!  

20kids...the 5lbs of hay...is that for full sized or pygmy goats?  Do to feed grain as well?  


I've also read about people feeding their goats pine boughs and garden veggies?  Thoughts, suggestions??


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## BetterHensandGardens (Dec 31, 2011)

If you're interested in mini dairy goats, then you should look at Nigerian Dwarves - not Pygmies.  Pygmies are not mini- dairy goats while Nigerians are.  There's a little write up on the benefits of the Nigerian Dwarf here:  http://www.betterhensandgardens.com/2010/09/15/nigerian-dwarf-goats/  Also, I'm not sure why you would want to keep them in separate stalls - goats are very social creatures.  We currently have 3 Nigerian Dwarves that we keep in a 10 x 10 stall, and they have free access to a large outside pasture in the day.  They have plenty of room and I think your size setup would work, I just wouldn't house them separately.  I use three roll around plastic Rubbermaid trash barrels to hold grain, minerals, BOSS, etc. and that seems to work.  For fencing, we used four foot high woven fencing, you can see the description here:  http://www.betterhensandgardens.com/2010/10/24/farm-fencing/  Hauling water for three mini dairy goats shouldn't be a problem, and I don't think electricity is absolutely necessary - although I'd add it ASAP if you can.  A 10 x 30 enclosure can certainly work for 2 mini dairy goats - but be warned, you'll want more!


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## yourbadd (Jan 1, 2012)

BetterHensandGardens said:
			
		

> If you're interested in mini dairy goats, then you should look at Nigerian Dwarves - not Pygmies.  Pygmies are not mini- dairy goats while Nigerians are.  There's a little write up on the benefits of the Nigerian Dwarf here:  http://www.betterhensandgardens.com/2010/09/15/nigerian-dwarf-goats/  Also, I'm not sure why you would want to keep them in separate stalls - goats are very social creatures.  We currently have 3 Nigerian Dwarves that we keep in a 10 x 10 stall, and they have free access to a large outside pasture in the day.  They have plenty of room and I think your size setup would work, I just wouldn't house them separately.  I use three roll around plastic Rubbermaid trash barrels to hold grain, minerals, BOSS, etc. and that seems to work.  For fencing, we used four foot high woven fencing, you can see the description here:  http://www.betterhensandgardens.com/2010/10/24/farm-fencing/  Hauling water for three mini dairy goats shouldn't be a problem, and I don't think electricity is absolutely necessary - although I'd add it ASAP if you can.  A 10 x 30 enclosure can certainly work for 2 mini dairy goats - but be warned, you'll want more!


The fencing I was looking at is very similar.  I will most definitely look at the spacing...wouldn't want little heads to get caught up in it!!  Thanks for the info on Nigerian Dwarves....I like that they can be bred year round.  I have a little more research to do before I settle on a breed and go searching for a breeder.

As far as wanting 3 stalls, it is more to be able to isolate quickly should the need arise.  Maybe 2 smaller stalls for illness or kidding with one large communal stall for overnight lockup is better?  After much reading and perusing folks farm websites and blogs it looks like creating moveable walls that setup and tear down easily might be the way to go.  Being locked into a particular configuration might pose problems down the line.  You'd think I would have learned that lesson early on after reconfiguring my chicken coop several times!!!

Now I need to come up with an economical building method for the barn and get to working!!


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## SheepGirl (Jan 2, 2012)

If you want movable pens (much more convenient than permanent pens in some cases), I would look at farm stores. For example, http://dslivestock.biz/openpanels.html or any other place that sells handling equipment. (Sydell is another good place to check out.)


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 2, 2012)

the 5 lbs a day of hay is a rough general estimate, to give you some idea how much hay you would need to store. IF you are feeding grain/ other feeds/ pasture this amount would go down.  

a full sized nubian would easily eat the 5 lbs of hay a day, you would probably be looking at a little less.

I feed grain to:
Growing kids
does in their last month of gestation
does  that are nursing
a goat that needs to put on weight


yOu would probably only need to store a 50lb bag or 2 of goat grain, maybe a bag of alfalfa pellets. So 2 or 3 trash cans that can hold feed would be all you probably need for couple of goats in storage, Feed wont keep forever in the summer, so it is important to not get more than a 30 day supply in warmer weather, I would say above 75 degrees. when it is cooler you can store more grain.


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## sunne73 (Jan 14, 2012)

Wonderful thread...thanks for asking and answering all the wonderful questions.  I have chickens too and am expanding to goats...heaven help me.


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## Queen Mum (Jan 14, 2012)

You are going to have plenty of space. I've been milking in the barn forever!  Just make sure you keep the milking space clean and have a shelf above your milking area to put your stuff.    You might need a light in your barn for milking.  So you would have to run a big extension cord out there to have a light to milk by in the early morning and at night.  Also it's easier if there is a night time kidding.


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## brx017 (Jan 29, 2012)

FYI, you can fit 50 lbs of feed in an 18 gallon tote. I use them to store chicken feed, dog food, etc. I use the sterilite ones from wal-mart, the lids snap on and they stack well.


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## Erins Little Farm (Jan 29, 2012)

Well I'm not sure I had a baby lamb that drank from the bottle and then he refused, sadly he died

I've had ewes that don't take their babies before


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## Chirpy (Jan 29, 2012)

You've already gotten great answers so I'll just add a couple thoughts:

I kept my first two Nigis in a roughly  500 sq. foot area for a couple years.   They had an igloo doghouse with two old shed doors and a solid piece of plywood over the top of them to make a tunnel to the doghouse for their shelter.  (The 'door tunnel' was shoved up against the doghouse and heavy tarps put over it all to help keep the wind out completely.)  They did have the 'spoiling' of getting to free range most days since I'm always at home.   It got old hauling water to them in winter, trudging through snow.  Otherwise, it worked great and I have no complaints.   

I use a headlight for light when going out to work where there is no electricity.  It keeps my hands free and has worked just fine for me; including milking my goats.

I now have all my goats in the big barn with water and electricity and really appreciate those conveniences.

We were given an old, non-working chest freezer that we now keep in the barn and keep all our animal feed in it, in their bags.   Not even the racoons can get into it!


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## sawfish99 (Feb 28, 2012)

A 10x30 barn is definitely overkill for your current plans for the number of goats, but as stated, bigger is better.  We use a 10x12 for our goat barn.  Inside, we milk the does and have a 4x6 kidding stall. We store 3-4 bales of hay at a time inside (and a lot more in our horse barn) and have a trash can full of feed.  I don't use Rubbermaid totes for feed because mice and other rodents will chew through and contaminate the feed.

As for water, get empty 55 gal drums from a local car wash.  Put a boiler drain brass spigot in the bottom and now you have 55 gals of storage outside your barn.  You can fill it from gutters or garden hose.  When it freezes, carry a bucket.

Electricity is a convenience you will want.  I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't have electricity in their barns, but proper lighting when milking and working on the goats makes a huge difference in getting the job done right.

As for barn layout, I would think 2 stalls would be better - 1 for kidding/isolation when needed.  Or even 1 very large stall with a removable wall to be installed in kidding time.  We have more problems trying to keep goats apart than together.  

For hay consumption, our full size does consume about the same average already mentioned - 5lbs a day (our bales range from 20-30lbs).

I don't have experience with mini-milkers.  We are very happy with our standard milkers and that's what I would recommend for family milking.  For reference, we are running an annual average of about $50/month/doe for grain, hay, bedding, supplements, vet bills, etc.

The biggest thing that jumps out at me about your plans is  "I don't have plans to keep a buck or any offspring until I need to replace a current milker."  Just wanted to make sure you recognize that you will need to breed your does annually to freshen the milk supply.  If you are not keeping a buck of your own, that means breeding with someone else (usually a wise choice for small scale because it is cheaper in the long run).  While you may not plan to keep the kids until you need a replacement, you will need to have kids to keep having milk.


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## ChristyMarie82 (Mar 1, 2012)

I'm loving this thread - thanks for asking!  I'd been considering a few goats for milking, and I just may talk to my husband about it now


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