# Is this nubian ready to be bred?



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 5, 2013)

My nubian doe was born May 8. I got her at the end of July. Mid November she weighed 65 lbs. She's now 8ish months old. I attempted to weigh her this morning and she was really uncooperative but my best guess is about 71 lbs. I know there's a lot of schools of thought as to when to breed them. As this is my first foray into goats, I really don't know what I'm doing. I obviously don't want to breed her too late, nor too early. If this was your goat, what would you do? I'm in Maine if you're considering weather. Thanks for any advice. 

Pictures of her from today (please excuse the poops, I haven't figured out a way to clean them up out of the snow... I'm open to advice on that front, too):


----------



## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 5, 2013)

My Does that were born 4/19 are not being bred this season.  I may breed one or both of them for a fall 2013.

I am relatively new also, but for me, I am waiting until they are at least one year old before breeding.  

Their who I got as a baby was 1.5 years old when I first bred her.


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. May I ask your reasoning behind waiting for fall 2013/1 year old?


----------



## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 5, 2013)

Basically, when I look at the girls who are 8.5 months old, they seem to small to go through a pregnancy and birth.  I know there are breeders who do  the 8 months or 80 lbs rule, but I am not in that much of a hurry for babies from these two.  I would rather let them get more growing done before they are bred and have to provide nutrition to growing babies.


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 5, 2013)

Thank you for your opinion. I've never seen a full sized female nubian (the guy I got them from had gotten rid of all but these two and his buck) so I don't know how "small" she is, comparatively speaking. I know she's bigger than most dogs I've met! And pushier, especially if there's the potential that I have food hidden somewhere on my body.

I was ready to wait until next fall but I read on fiasco farm's website:_ "I have heard of people who wait until a doe is 1 1/2 years old before breeding her. There is no reason to wait this long. People do this because they think the doe will grow better if you wait to breed her, but if the doe is well taken care of and fed properly she will grow just as well bred as unbred. We have personal experience with this matter. We have three kidding stalls and only breed three does in a "batch". We let the does have their personal clean stall with their kids for two weeks after kidding (they do get to come out during the day as the kids progress). Because of our breeding procedure, not all does get bred at the same time. We have had twin does where one fell into a "breeding batch" her first year but the second doe came into heat when we were not breeding. The second doe's heat dates never fell nicely into a convenient "batch" and because of this she never got bred before our breeding cut-off deadline of Jan. 1 (we don't breed after Jan. 1). So, one twin was bred when she was 80 pounds (about 8 - 9 months old) and the other twin didn't get bred until the next year, when she was 1 1/2 years old. By the time the both does reached two years of age, they were exactly the same size. I have seen this over and over and I know you can breed at 80 pounds/8 months. You just must make sure you take good care of, and properly feed, your bred does." _

Now, I don't agree with everything that they have on their website, but I found this quote to really make me think about the timing of breeding, and whether I want to try to do it in January or February. I don't think I want to do it much later than February because it really starts to get cold here in September. 

That being said, I'm nervous about doing it too soon, and I'd rather be safe than sorry. But I also don't want to wait needlessly. As you can see, I have no idea what I want to do. 

Again, thanks for your opinion. Anyone else have one?


----------



## Pearce Pastures (Jan 5, 2013)

She looks small in my opinion, and I recommend waiting until she is one before breeding her and has put a bit more into her height and weight.  A year and a half is probably excessive, though goats are still growing at that point, but at 8 months and her size, she will be putting energy into growing kids and then into lactation instead of into developing herself.  A few extra months won't hurt anything and it would be better for her to have kids when it is cool out than to have a permanent reduction in her own growth.


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks for your opinion. Now I have more questions. If I wait and breed her when she's oneish that's having babies in October, right? Won't it be too cold for that? I am hopefully never having goats IN my house. On purpose, anyway. What about lactating in the winter? Isn't that hard on her udder (ie too cold/will crack?)? 


Sorry for all the questions.


----------



## Pearce Pastures (Jan 5, 2013)

No problem---good questions.  No it won't be too hard on her and the temp will be fine.  Actually, if you look on the birthing thread, you'll see that a lot of people's goats are kidding right now in the dead of winter, which makes sense because a lot of goats are seasonal breeders (they go into heat in the fall which puts them kidding in winter).  You might want to building them a heat barrel or something like that so they can get a little extra warmth, but they will be just fine.


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 5, 2013)

I'll check it out, thank you. I'll be surprised if anyone this far north is kidding right now. It was sub-zero most of this week at night. 

Then again, I've had many chickens hatch out chicks this time of year in the coop and I haven't lost a single one. As little as I know about goats, though, I'd doubt they sit on their kids to keep them warm.  

Ah, the things books never tell you. Glad you guys are here for these questions.


----------



## Fluffygal (Jan 5, 2013)

SuperChemicalgirl,

She is pretty, love the spots. My Fiona is 9 months and I am waiting for their next breeding season which for Nubians is late summer to early winter. This will give her time to mature. Fiona is small too so I think they grow slower? I am new to Nubians too. My pygmies grow like weeds.  Fiona has become my favorite of the 3 girls as she is so personnable and goofy.

My opion is to wait until she is a year old atleast so you know she has had time to mature a bit more. If you wait for their main breeding season for late summer to early winter in 2013 she will be ready. Bet you will have some beautiful babies from her. 

All I can give is a newbie opion as I am still learning myself. Had a oops with my pygmy Bella who got knocked up too early (think it was somewhere at 8 months) Luckliy she had a very easy birth. 1 cute doe, Oreo. Sometimes things turn out really well then there are the sad times from others stories that don't go so well.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Jan 5, 2013)

Oops.
You already ready Fiasco Farms.

I need to read these threads completely before I reply


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 5, 2013)

Thank you, all, for your opinions. I think I'll wait. Not sure when but at least after May.


----------



## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 5, 2013)

Funny - I was out taking pictures today.  I will post some of Nina and her daughters so you can compare.

Nina and her daughters  The one that looks like Nina is Tilly and the black one is Libby.  Nina was born 4/23/2010.  She delivered Tilly and Libby 4/18/2012.












This pictures is of Nina the day she was bred in November 2011.


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 5, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

> Oops.
> You already ready Fiasco Farms.
> 
> I need to read these threads completely before I reply


I did. They're the only ones saying to breed early! You guys are all telling me to wait.


----------



## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 5, 2013)

It is a personal preference.  I know folks that are meat goat breeders and they breed pretty much all of their does at 8 months.  For them, it is a cost / benefit issue.  They can not afford to feed the does for months and months if they are not making babies.

For me and many others, our goats are a hobby, definitely not our main source of income, so we can afford to wait.


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 5, 2013)

ThreeBoysChicks said:
			
		

> Funny - I was out taking pictures today.  I will post some of Nina and her daughters so you can compare.
> 
> Nina and her daughters  The one that looks like Nina is Tilly and the black one is Libby.  Nina was born 4/23/2010.  She delivered Tilly and Libby 4/18/2012.
> 
> ...


Nice pictures. Those babies are so much smaller, you're right! Did you have to practice with yours on a leash for her to be that tame??? 

Mostly though my thought with your pictures was "where is he that his grass is that green in November!!!!" I was raised in Charles County, Maryland... but been out of there too long to remember that lush grass in November. I'm not even sure my grass up here looks like that in July.


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 5, 2013)

ThreeBoysChicks said:
			
		

> For me and many others, our goats are a hobby, definitely not our main source of income, so we can afford to wait.


Farming is definitely not an income hobby for me. 

Where's the emoticon with money being flushed down the toilet?


----------



## Fluffygal (Jan 5, 2013)

Threeboyschick,

Thanks for the size comparison picks. It is a good learning tool for us newbies to see on the Nubians.


----------



## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 5, 2013)

Nina was raised on her mother and I got her at 12 weeks old.  I was worried that she would not be tame, but she came home and slept in my lap by the pool for hours.  She goes anywhere I want her to go.  She raised her daughters and they are just as tame as she is.

Here is Nina, the day she came home.






I am in Thurmont MD, which is between Frederick, MD and Gettysburg, PA.  Yeah it was that green this November also.  My sister lived in Charles County for years.  Her daughter still does.  Small world.


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm a breeder, so my purpose is to make a profit.....keep that in mind when reading my answer.   Also, I'm talking about standard goats, NOT minis.  

I breed our Nubian does by the 8 mos / 80# rule...I try to let them get bigger if possible, but that's not always an option.....and I usually cull any does who DON'T make 80# by 8 mos.  We try to be 'done' kidding my March, which means I *should* be able to breed the doelings by November if they were born in March or before.

I've found the 'slow grower' lines tend to not be very impressive as adults, anyway....in my experience.

I don't want kids born in Sept / October, our kiddings run from late Nov - March.  I need the rest of the year for gardening / putting food up for winter / getting ready for the holidays.

I cannot afford to feed goats for 1+ years and NOT get kids from them...again, while I ADORE my animals and take good care of them....I have to also be practical as this isn't 'just' a hobby or a couple of backyard milkers / pets I'm talking about here.  I have to feed that animal for a year, it has to give back.

IMHO, the 1.5 yr old rule makes breeders 'feel' better, but if the goats were in the wild and cycling, they'd get bred and the strong, good breeders would survive, the weak would not....we coddle our animals too much and that's how we end up w/ weak animals.

I can honestly say that in almost 15 yrs of kidding goats, I've never had a 'young' doe kid w/ a worse problem than a big single.  I've had very bad presentations / resulting complications from well-seasoned does who've kidded multiple times.

And they DO grow out fine....otherwise I wouldn't continue to breed yearlings / doelings.  Last year Ellie hit the right weight and Blue (3 mos. younger) did not.  Ellie got bred, kidded 2 nice 8# boer x bucklings, and peaked at just under 1 g of milk a day, kidding at 13 mos. old.  We waited the extra year w/ Blue (born in June -she was bought, not born here) and they are the same weight now.  Ellie didn't suffer one bit by being bred.

I'm not advocating breeding a doe at 71#, necessarily, I'm just saying experience has shown me that it's OK to breed a doe before 1 yr of age if she's physically fit.


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 5, 2013)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I'm a breeder, so my purpose is to make a profit.....keep that in mind when reading my answer.   Also, I'm talking about standard goats, NOT minis.
> 
> I breed our Nubian does by the 8 mos / 80# rule...I try to let them get bigger if possible, but that's not always an option.....and I usually cull any does who DON'T make 80# by 8 mos.  We try to be 'done' kidding my March, which means I *should* be able to breed the doelings by November if they were born in March or before.
> 
> ...


Great post. I completely agree with all your thoughts there.


----------



## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 5, 2013)

OP - I respect Rolls very much and would listen to her advice.  My Buckling is from Roll Farms.

With Tilly and Libby, I am not planning to wait until next fall to breed them.  I am hoping that Trip will be ready to breed them June of this year, which will give me babies in November of 2013.  That way, I will have milk over the winter, etc.


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 5, 2013)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I'm a breeder, so my purpose is to make a profit.....keep that in mind when reading my answer.   Also, I'm talking about standard goats, NOT minis.
> 
> I breed our Nubian does by the 8 mos / 80# rule...I try to let them get bigger if possible, but that's not always an option.....and I usually cull any does who DON'T make 80# by 8 mos.  We try to be 'done' kidding my March, which means I *should* be able to breed the doelings by November if they were born in March or before.
> 
> ...


She may be a slow grower because she had really bad diarrhea (coccidiosis I believe) when she was a young kid. I treat my chickens the same way - very well but I don't baby them. They have to survive the Maine winters up here. I like your thoughts above - and agree that summer is insanely busy with gardening and putting up food - I didn't even think about that.


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 5, 2013)

I wasn't necessarily saying you girl is a slow grower....I honestly didn't pay that close of attention to anything but the 71# and should you breed her....so don't remember how old she is...
I'm saying if I myself had a doe that didn't reach breeding weight in time, and had been given proper cocci prev. (which we do), fed properly, and dewormed as needed (and therefore had no excuse) that *I* wouldn't keep it.
The rest was my reasoning for breeding them at what some consider to be too young.  

I've dealt w/ people w/ 'small' goats who claim they're 'slow growing' lines.  I have found them to be generally unthrifty overall...they may make a good size eventually but I haven't the time / patience for it.

But my biggest conviction is- as always - do what works best for you and your situation.  
If folks WANT to wait until a goat is 1.5 yrs old, by all means do so.  I'm just sayin' I'm not necessarily 'wrong' by not waiting, and we all gotta do what works best for us.


----------



## pdpo222 (Jan 6, 2013)

Since I have no reason to have my does bred by any certain time I breed mine in  Dec-Jan only because I don't want to worry about heat lamps, weather temps. etc.  Mine will have babies when the weather hopefully is warm.  They are just a hobby for me, so I chose the warmer months for kidding.  If they were a business I would probably do it different, but lucky for me I can choose the months and what is best for me.  One of the perks of being old.  lol.


----------



## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 6, 2013)

Another thing to consider is your market.  Around here, Meat goats are in very high demand at two main times because of Various Religious Holidays.  Also There is a market for bottle babies for 4-H members who want pack goats, meat whethers, etc.  I plan to contact our local 4-H and find out when they typically look for babies to be on the ground for these programs.

And another, do you have a buck.  Prior to this year, I did not have a buck and finding someone to breed to when it was convenient for me was not easy.  Now that I have my own buck, I have a lot more options.  I really want to stagger to keep at least one doe in milk pretty much all the time, not the same doe of course.


----------



## Tiss (Jan 6, 2013)

I guess I'm of the impression that they're pets but they are also here to provide. If you don't breed her now, you are going to have to wait until next breeding season, conservatively, 8 more months. There are others more knowledgable than I am, but if she were mine, I'd breed her and make sure to feed her well so she and the kids can grow.


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 6, 2013)

I don't have a buck. She has a wether friend (who helps confirm for me when she's in heat - he does ride her during those few days). I found a buck about 20 minutes away that will be available for a "driveway" breeding which sounds pretty low-class to me, but I'm not a goat in love... 


I do want to get her bred (I'm looking forward to the milk) but I think it still sounds safer to wait as she hasn't made weight, even if she made age. There's still a piece of me though that thinks I should still do it.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 6, 2013)

*I'm a newbie (first year with goats) so take my advise for what it's worth:

I got my girl when she was 12 months old. I doubt she weighed 80 pounds, she was kinda small. I did do a driveway breeding when I got her, but it didn't take. I'm actually kinda glad it didn't because over the last 8 months she has REALLY grown a lot. I just rebred her now that she is around 18 months old and I think she settled.

I guess the point is I am glad I waited until the next breeding cycle instead of retrying. Because she was smaller I feel like the extra time was good for her to grow.  She is a lot bigger now, maybe 130 pounds.

But these are my pets and I'm not trying to maximize production, just do what's best for them and us. *


----------



## Fullhousefarm (Jan 7, 2013)

Another newbie here.

We have a just turned 12 month LaMancha doe that we decided to wait to breed when she was 8/9 months. I would have been comfortable breeding her in November (11 months) but April is a horrible time to kid in Florida and doesn't work well for showing at all since our fairs are Feb/March, with two smaller ones in Oct/Nov. We don't want to risk having babies at the fair, though some people don't care about that. So, we are waiting for timing purposes for kidding with the benefit of showing her longer as a junior.

If however, we didn't show and it wasn't a really bad time for parasites in April/ May here, I would have bred her in November, so I think it really depends on what you want.


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 7, 2013)

I talked to the guy I got the goats from today and he says they breed at 60 lbs as does the place he got them from!! I know that's a bit too low. So if Augustina was there, she'd be bred. 

Most of you guys are telling me to be cautious and wait, but that it would probably be okay to do it if I decided to. So many different opinions and things to consider. I'm still leaning mostly no (considering I told the stud owner to stand down) but a small piece of me is still wishing I'd do it. 

As an aside, I cleaned out the game cam today and found so many pictures just like this... what chores at this house look like. Those goats are always up in my business.


----------



## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 7, 2013)

Love that picture....


----------



## SuperChemicalGirl (Jan 27, 2013)

She weighs at least 74 lbs as of yesterday, looks like she's putting on about a pound a week, even in these insane temperatures we've been having (day and night). 

Maybe she'll be able to be bred late Feb... if she's still in heat and the buck is still in rut.


----------

