# Weird bump on head...it's not CL



## Ariel301 (Jun 28, 2011)

I bought a doe a couple of months ago from a friend. She came to me with a bump on her head about the size of a chicken egg, it is right in the middle on top of her head, in between where the horns would have been. She's disbudded, and has no scurs. There were does in her herd with CL, but this one has not caught it. We thought maybe she hit her head on something, or perhaps got a splinter in there and had an infection. It got bigger over a few weeks, and the hair came off of it, like it does on a CL abscess, but it has not popped. I can tell it bothers her, she rubs it against things, paws at it sometimes, and really does not like it touched, so I think it probably hurts. I tried to put a needle in it and drain it out away from the rest of my goats just in case it is CL, but it doesn't seem to be an abscess, now that I really mess with it. It's very solid like there is no fluid in there at all, and I was not able to drain anything from it with a really big needle, which I should have been able to if it was fluid filled. It bled from the needle site after I took the needle out, but it's not an abscess full of blood. There's no apparent wound anywhere on it to suggest something like a splinter or thorn is in there (though it would probably be gone already anyway). 

Any ideas? I'm somewhat concerned it could be a tumor, but I've never heard anything about a goat with a tumor sprouting out of the top of its head.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jun 28, 2011)

Are you able to take some pictures of it?   I would pretend that it could be CL or something contagious until you are sure. Can you quarantine her if possible?  I know that's not always easy.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jun 28, 2011)

Poor girl.  It definatley could be a tumor.  I would get it checked by the vet for sure. Tumors can show up anywhere in the body. I personally have never seen one on the head...but I wouldnt rule it out.  I would'nt put needles or anything in it anymore.  But I understand why you did...I would have to check to.  But if its a cancerous tumor sometimes entering them will spread them faster.  Not trying to scare you..just the facts.  I would call the vet and have them take a look.  Good luck...hope it works out okay for that poor girl.    Ouch!!!


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## Ariel301 (Jun 28, 2011)

I'll try to get a photo, it is really weird looking.

 My rule with bumps is to treat them all like CL until proven innocent. She has been in quarantine already, since I always quarantine new animals. I gave her a CL vaccination, since I vaccinate all my goats to hopefully avoid bringing it into my herd. I certainly won't be stabbing it anymore now that I know I can't drain it, not much point in that! Unfortunately we do not have a vet within a hundred miles (or more) who will treat goats, they basically just advise buying a bullet and a new goat, since the going rate for goat kids around here is about $20, since other than myself and my friend who sold me the goat, no one is raising purebreds or goats of any quality at all. So the vets just don't know a $20 scrub goat from a $600 pedigreed show goat. :/ I'm going to check around though and see if one would be able to maybe take a biopsy and send it to a lab that can test things on goats, they SHOULD be able to do that at least, even if they don't know about goats. I'll just have to talk them past the "it will cost more than your goat is worth" excuses.


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## Ariel301 (Jun 30, 2011)

Well, here's a picture of the bump. It hasn't changed any, and I won't be able to get a biopsy, it's going to cost more than my budget allows. Someone suggested trying an injection of antibiotic right into the lump, does anyone here think it might be worth a try? I really would like to get rid of this thing before September, so I can take this doe to show.


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## Roll farms (Jun 30, 2011)

I would do minor surgery...shave it bald, cut the thing open and remove the core, if you can't get anything out.  Put the 'flap' back and it should heal up nicely.  Keep her on Pen G to speed healing / prevent infection, and cover the border of the wound w/ antibiotic ointment.

I've cut many lumps / bumps out of goats over the years, dealing w/ CL.  A 'flap wound' is easy to heal.  

JUST BE SURE you remove *all* of the 'lump', whatever it may be, w/out rupturing / bursting it.  You could unleash an infection.  It should be easy to feel the edges / cut away from.

Iodine, Iodine, IODINE that sucker, too.

That's my 2 cents worth...


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## Ariel301 (Jun 30, 2011)

I've been tempted to do that, but keep backing down every time I mention it and my husband says, "You aren't seriously going to do that, are you?" 

I'v got all the stuff to do it, I'll just have to find a less squeamish assistant to keep her head still for me. I don't think bursting it is going to be a problem, if it was going to burst, it should have by now with the needle poking and the few times I'v smacked her pretty hard across the top of it for misbehaving (I was kind of hoping I WOULD pop it) and all the times she has smashed her head into another goat. Would I want to stitch it up after cutting the thing out, or just leave it? 

After talking again with her previous owner, I am thinking it probably is not a tumor. She said it appeared overnight.


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## redtailgal (Jul 1, 2011)

.


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## Roll farms (Jul 1, 2011)

Since it's what I call a "flap" wound, as long as A) you keep it clean / her on antibiotics and B) no flies get involved, it *should* heal nicely w/out stitches.  You might bandage it for the 1st day or two and keep an elizabethian collar (home made will do) on her for a day or so to encourage it to start knitting w/out her scratching it w/ her foot / unflapping it all the time.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jul 1, 2011)

It could possibly be a hematoma from her headbutting the wrong thing.  I've never seen one there, but probably stranger things have happened!


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 1, 2011)

I would give her big doses of Penn G IM 2 or even 3 times a day for 7 days to 10 days and then give her a couple weeks and see if it goes down.  Then I would consider Other options.


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## ThornyRidgeII (Jul 1, 2011)

I am interest in this as well.. not the kinda lump bump I was figuring.. I have a few that constantly rub their heads (since being disbudded) and now have developed tiny callous like bumps.. this looks like some type of tumor/abscess to me.. I had a goat that got a hematoma/bruise once when she fell and landed/smacked the bottom of her chin on a hard surface.. literally landed on face.. and it developed into a squishy area of inflammation ( almost similar to a mild case of bottle jaw..) after a few days it went down and none the worse for wear.. any chance that there could be some type of foreign matter in her head that could have developed into an abscess.. thinking like large thorn, stinger from insects?  keep us posted on her.. am interested in what it could be.


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## Ariel301 (Jul 3, 2011)

Hematoma is still a possibility, since it showed up in under 24 hours. If it's full of thick dry blood, it certainly wouldn't drain with a needle. I've seen a couple of hematomas associated with broken ribs from being bashed too hard by another goat, but they never lasted quite this long. I started her on some Penicillin, I'll see if that helps before getting serious about cutting into this thing. (I'll have a camera person document it if I do!) I'm a bit nervous about it since I don't know for sure what this thing is and she's a kind of high-strung nervous type to begin with, surgery on her without sedative is not going to be exactly fun. 

It's definitely not an abscess of any kind. When I could not get anything to drain through the needle, I actually put the needle all the way through so it came out the other side, and then pulled it out and tried squeezing the bump REALLY hard to get stuff to come out the holes. Nothing. It's solid all the way through. I would think that if it was a festering infection pocket from a foreign object, the object would have worked its way out after two months. :/


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## Ariel301 (Jul 4, 2011)

The penicillin doesn't seem to be doing any good so far. I've got some injectable lidocaine coming by mail for treatment of one of my health problems, I think when it arrives, I will use it to numb the lump really good and cut into it then. I'll feel much better doing surgery with a little anaesthsia (I think she will too! She and I may both need a glass of wine afterwards lol) So, there should be another installment in a few weeks.


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