# CAN YOU HELP WITH SOME INFORMATION ON YOUR SHEEP FARM?



## The Old Ram-Australia (Oct 9, 2016)

_G'day Sheep Farmers.I am seeking some data on sheep farmers in the US and I hope some of you can fill in the gaps for me.
1.how many breeder ewes do you have,wool or meat?
2. Is your sheep enterprise your main source of income? Or does it produce a additional income stream for your regular job?
3. Where is your sales market,local ,food-service or retail supermarket?
4.Are your sales impacted by imports from Aus/NZ?
5.Have you in recent years 'lost' your local slaughter-house?
6.Has the local auction barn closed or moved further away in recent years?

You can if you wish reply to me a fegan@live.co.au or just post the info here.

I am more than happy to post details of our sheep farming operation if any of you have questions about our farm Downunder......T.O.R._


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## Baymule (Oct 9, 2016)

1. I started with 4 ewes, adding 2 ewe lambs to the flock. They are Dorper/Katahdin crosses. I have 1 Dorper ram. They are hair sheep.
2. We are newly retired. Our sheep are not our main source of income. We are looking to build our flock as an additional income.
3. We sold 3 lambs, our first ones. We sold to local people, direct sales. The lambs were sold as slaughtered, priced as hanging weight.
4. Imports from NZ/Aus have no impact on our farm.
5. Our local slaughter houses, custom and USDA, are booked and you have to make appointments a few months ahead of time.
6. Auction barns that closed did so 10-20 years ago. There is no longer an auction barn in each county. The auction barns that remain are busy. Some areas are better for sheep and goats than others, depending on what type of livestock is prevalent in that area. Sulphur Springs, several counties away has a booming auction barn for dairy cattle because dairy is the main livestock for that area. Sheep and goat auctions are better in west Texas because the land is better suited for them than cattle, although there is a large cattle population in west Texas. There are a few auction barns that specialize in horses.


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## norseofcourse (Oct 10, 2016)

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> _G'day Sheep Farmers.I am seeking some data on sheep farmers in the US and I hope some of you can fill in the gaps for me._



That's a big task - and a difficult one!  When I went to "Ohio Sheep Day" a couple years ago, they said the fastest growing segment of sheep owners were small, backyard-type flocks, people with a few acres (like me).  And I believe that.  The difficult thing is, there is no easy way to track or get statistics on this growing segment.  Many of them 'fly under the radar' - they have no farm income (or count it as 'hobby income', or don't report it at all).  They don't participate in the USDA's Census of Agriculture.  They don't pay lamb check-offs or wool check-offs.  They don't register for the Scrapie program.  I understand some of the reasons, but it makes it hard to find out how many of these small producers/owners are out there, and what impact they have, and how to best help them - with education and resources.

*1.how many breeder ewes do you have,wool or meat?*
Currently 4 breeder ewes, although I'm probably keeping a ewe lamb from this year, so it'll be 5.  They are for both wool and meat (and I also do some milking).

*2. Is your sheep enterprise your main source of income? Or does it produce a additional income stream for your regular job?*
No, it's not a main source of income.  I am hoping it will eventually generate enough income to cover the expenses, and even show a bit of a profit.  If I generate enough farm income, I can also apply for lowered property taxes on most of my acreage, too.

*3. Where is your sales market,local ,food-service or retail supermarket?*
For lamb - sales to individuals, selling whole lambs based on hanging weight at the processor.  Fiber and sheeps-milk soap - selling to handspinners and others at fiber shows, occasional craft shows, and eventually online.

*4.Are your sales impacted by imports from Aus/NZ?*
No.

*5.Have you in recent years 'lost' your local slaughter-house?*
No, although one burned down and they rebuilt further away.

*6.Has the local auction barn closed or moved further away in recent years?*
No, but the nearest one is over an hour from me, if not further.  I don't buy or sell sheep or lambs there.


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## Ponker (Oct 10, 2016)

1. I have 7 breeding ewes and 3 rams. They are purebred Finnsheep, a wool breed with a small niche meat market.
2. We are just retired and have been in operation one year. Our business plan puits us at break even for three years and then we will generate a steady but small income. It will be an additional income stream.
3. The market for Finnsheep comes from local meat breeders looking to increase lambing percentages with an influx of Finnsheep genes, national Finnsheep flocks looking for additional lambs for breeding stock, a niche meat market, and wool sales to handspinners through direct sales and internet.
4. Imports of sperms from NZ rams is a big bonus for the Finnsheep community. There is always interest in adding more genetics to widen the gene pool. A flock with NZ ram AI lambs can demand a premium.
5. There are plenty of local slaughterhouses here in the Ozarks.
6. There are several in the area that have been in business for years. As Baymule said, some are better than others for whatever livestock you're looking for.

I am interested in your sheep operation. I enjoy reading your posts. I always learn something.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Oct 13, 2016)

G'day to you all,I have got some 'really' interesting info from a friend in the U.S.A. on the subject.

"The number of sheep in the U.S. as of June 1, 2016 was just under 5 million.  Within-the-margin-of-error USDA's Econ. Research Service statistics put it at 5 million.  4.8 to 5.32 million are where some official and unofficial stats hover, but I'm sticking with 5 million.

The number of sheep operations is claimed by some at 81,000.  But according to the USDA-ERS I think it's now a little less than that, at 79,500, more or less.

5 million head divided by 79,500 equals 62.9 sheep per sheep operation, on average.

One has to balance that low inventory per farm with this fact:  Of the total, well over 90 percent now have fewer than 100 ewes.

Further, there are now fewer than 200 operations with over 5,000 ewes.  And only about 1 percent of the total have more than 1,000 ewes.  I think only about 3 percent of operations have 300 to 1,000 ewes--starting to get toward the "paying potential" point under conventional production and pricing, if some costs are covered by *inherited land *or inexpensive lease allotments.
Yet not all the smaller operators are "dabblers and hobbyists."  A significant number have been in sheep for more than 60 years.  Most have been in for at least 15 years.  And many of them used to have thousands of head.

Small operations *could *pay sharp operators here.  There are all sorts of ways to make money with sheep in the U.S.

I knew a lady who annually made $17,000 on 22 sheep in a suburb of Boston, Mass., in her spare time, and it paid the taxes on her husband's outside employment.She made most of that money selling craft wools to the Boston markets, and lambs for the freezer to people at her church.

Not a bad profit at all for so few sheep and a relatively small land investment.

But it begins to call into question whether one is in the sheep biz or the crafts biz, or the middleman biz.  Unless profit margins are high, a once-a-year crop can't stay afloat competing in a "fast stock turn-over" biz like urban retail marketing."

Comments from the group?

There are some other points  he made and I will add them to the next post.....T.O.R.


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## Sheepshape (Oct 14, 2016)

The statistics rather surprise me....them I am from across the Pond.

Wales has a human population of under 3 million and a sheep population of over 10 million....sheep are everywhere. That unfortunately means that they don't sell for much at the markets unless they are champion lines.

I'll watch this thread with interest.


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## Mini Horses (Oct 14, 2016)

Sounds like many of the "farmers"  have retired and thus maintain a small flock, others may be just beginning, most are probably just raising a few for the adventure and a small source of additional income.   

I feel certain there are those unaccounted for who maintain a few head and are satisfied to cover costs, have good lamb to eat and possibly a little extra for other use.   Some of these types just got tired of the "rat race" & retired to eeek out a life on a little plot of land.   These souls are not looking for a big business herd.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Oct 14, 2016)

G'day,I will post my views on the topic soon,but for now here is some more of the views of my friend

"In the U.S. growers are paying a "check-off" (a deceptive term for a "sheep tax") to promote sheep meat consumption in the U.S.

But the U.S. doesn't have the volume to supply the goods it's advertising:  U.S. production *dropped *since promotion started.  The vaunted increase in sales claimed to be a result of the "check-off" can therefore only be fulfilled by *increased imports.*

This means Americans are eating more sheep meat, probably due to American growers promoting lamb.

But the added volume of sheep meat they're eating comes from Australia and New Zealand.

Our growers are therefore paying to increase demand only for offshore sources.

Now if importers (Aus. & N.Z. sourced) were the ones promoting, but ended up selling *less *due to rising U.S. production, would that be bad for American growers, according to your correspondents way of thinking?

I don't see how those guys' arguments hold up.  We need more growers, but it won't happen until people buy more U.S. product.  That won't happen until we address their main complaints about U.S. sheep meat."

He has also had something to say about the exports from Aussie to Britain,but the 'bloody stuff wont copy and paste',so I will have to type it next post....T.O.R.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 14, 2016)

This is interesting. I'm considering hair sheep in the spring (Katahdins),  but I'm the homesteader type who wants about 5 sheep to have meat for us and sell the extra.  But if it goes well,  I am in no way opposed to expanding so I'll be watching  this thread!


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## Baymule (Oct 14, 2016)

I would love to have a large operation, but that won't happen on 8 acres LOL.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 14, 2016)

Haha! Yes we have 5 but access to an additional 35. OK I can't for the life of me understand pricing for lamb.  Someone near me is charging $11/lb. Now this is a farm that charges premium prices on everything but why is their lamb so expensive? Is it simply because of demand? It doesn't seem like it would be that expensive to raise sheep compared to say pigs from a sheer feed standpoint. I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to price lamb if I sold it!


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## Mini Horses (Oct 14, 2016)

It can be quite expensive in the store.  I've seen $14# for lamb chops.  Organic & pasture fed can be even more.   So -- does importation add more per pound?  
I could have bought all I wanted at the auction a month ago for 50-75 a head.   Not as breeders but these were almost ready for market.   Yeah, I know about the auctions, etc., but, this is a smaller, localized type and the animals have been healthy looking and if not wanting breeders, looked good for butcher.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Oct 15, 2016)

G'day,there are a number of steps you as a sheep farmer can take to make the most of your operation.

Do you have a 'bunch' of consumers already who wish to purchase lamb?
What type of lamb do they want,mild tasting Downs type or stronger flavored Hair sheep?
Have you looked at the production options?
Selling direct to a killing works on a hanging price per kg.
Selling to a finisher.
Becoming a group of small producers and sell retail(this requires a consistent product produced mostly year round.)

To be successful at any of these options requires you to 'know' or 'find out' what your particular market requires.

We are about to change the way we sell our killers,from the farm live and advertised on a local site.
Our catch cry will be "Lamb like your Grandma used to bake on Sunday" .This method will save us a 'at least' a 2 hour drive to the auction barn and after we subtract our selling costs the return should be about the same without the stress of the journey and the costs in fuel etc.I will let you all know how it turns out in later posts.

I still have to continue on with the original subject,but I have to have another lot of eye surgery this week so it will have to wait.

....T.O.R.


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## Baymule (Oct 16, 2016)

Sorry that you have to have eye surgery, but if it fixes or helps a problem, then it is a good thing. My husband has had a triple bypass, knee replacement in the last year. He is going for another procedure tomorrow and is still facing shoulder replacement. It's all good, broken parts need fixing or replacing, like a classic car needs rebuilding. LOL

My lamb sales number 2 whole lambs and 1/2 of one. We kept the other half. We charged $6 a pound hanging weight, plus $85 cut and wrap. Our customers so far are just people we know who want quality meat. At the grocery store, lamb chops are $38 a pound, shoulder and ribs are $13 a pound. So our lamb is quite the good deal. We are adding 2 ewe lambs to our little flock of 4, bringing it up to 6 ewes. As we grow our flock, we hope to grow our customer base.


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## mysunwolf (Oct 16, 2016)

Don't know if you're still looking for this info but thought I'd post it regardless!

*1.how many breeder ewes do you have,wool or meat?*

We keep 8-10 breeders for meat and milk.

*2. Is your sheep enterprise your main source of income? Or does it produce a additional income stream for your regular job?*

Definitely not the main source of income, or much of any income (ha). It's primarily a hobby, plus we get meat and milk.

*3. Where is your sales market,local ,food-service or retail supermarket?*

We sell lamb at our local farmers markets, and to select local and semi-local (within 500 miles) customers, neighbors, family, and friends.

*4.Are your sales impacted by imports from Aus/NZ?*

Yes, surprisingly! Local restaurants laughed in my face when I tried to discuss them purchasing from local farms (basically a number of local farms have their lamb USDA processed and packaged and are then legally allowed to sell, but it helps to pool the meat to have enough volume that restaurants want--however, we can't seem to agree on a price that will keep us in business and make the chefs happy). They told me that they can get wholesale NZ lamb for less than half the price. I also have customers tell me routinely that lamb in the grocery store is affordable while mine is not.

Just for the record, we charge $9/lb for ground lamb (not grass fed, just pasture raised), $18/lb for chops, $10/lb for leg or shoulder, etc. *ETA: These prices are because of the high processing fees at the local slaughterhouses, NOT to reflect the actual cost of raising lamb.*

*5.Have you in recent years 'lost' your local slaughter-house?
*
Not recently, it was in the 80s when most of the local slaughterhouses closed. Our closest USDA-inspected slaughterhouse is 1.5hrs away and charges quite a bit.

_*6.Has the local auction barn closed or moved further away in recent years?*_

As far as I know the auction barns have remained open, however most of them no longer run sheep or goats through.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Oct 16, 2016)

,G'day and thank you for your input and Yes i am still looking for more of you over there to post' your 'experience on the subject.

I do want to write a piece on the subject and post it on LinkedIn and I will let you all know when it happens.just a note on my eye surgery a month ago I had cataract surgery on my right eye with 'great' success and so this week I will have the left eye done.Because of this I have to take things quietly for several weeks on the farm to prevent any chance of infection and screen time does make me quite 'tied' in this period ,but I will endevour to keep track of what is going on and reply when I can.....T.o.R.


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## misfitmorgan (Oct 17, 2016)

_1.how many breeder ewes do you have,wool or meat?
Currently we have 4 Suffolk Ewes, and 2 Polypay Ewes as well as 2 Suffolk Rams and 2 mutt rams(temporarily) and one of the polypay had a ram lamb recently who is polypay and bond cross. We use the sheep for meat and wool.

2. Is your sheep enterprise your main source of income? Or does it produce a additional income stream for your regular job?
Not at all...atm it just cost money because we are just getting serious about it and purchased the suffolk.

3. Where is your sales market,local ,food-service or retail supermarket?
Locally and the auction if we must....The supermarkets here will not buy farm meat they use import meat because it is cheaper then we can produce.

4.Are your sales impacted by imports from Aus/NZ?
Yes. Total lamb imports from NZ and Aus are approx 50% of all lamb eaten in the US. The meat market here is bad, the NZ lambs are approx $3-9/lb processed. If we sell slaughter lambs at the auction we get approx $1.50/lb live weight which comes out to about $1.95/lb hang weight. Yet at the store to buy lamb it is $15-40/lb depending on the cut....so who is jacking the price up so much? If its no the farmer, and its not the packer...is it the store? We sell live lambs 8-12weeks old for $150 each...there is not a benefit to raise them to slaughter weight to take them to auction so we will have to sell them locally by the pound. Also pelt prices are in the gutter, pelts are $2-3 each if they are "good/excellant" otherwise worth nothing. Fleece/wool is almost as bad at $2-3/lb.

5.Have you in recent years 'lost' your local slaughter-house?
Nope but the closest USDA one is 2hrs one way.

6.Has the local auction barn closed or moved further away in recent years?
3 Auction houses have closed in the past 15yrs, now the closest is 1.5hrs away from us._


The US does not raise or consume a lot of sheep/lamb. The cost to raise them is prohibitive and the cost to buy lamb at the store is prohibitive..so the consumer doesnt want to have to buy the lamb and the producer cant afford to sell the lamb any cheaper then they do now. Small farmers can not sell directly to supermarkets or restaurants because they can buy NZ or Aus import lamb wholesale for cheaper then we can produce it. The US only consumes approx 4lbs of lamb per capita/year, NZ/Aus is something like 20lbs per capita/year. I love lamb but i myself can not afford to pay the prices in the store for lamb, i believe if lamb was a cheaper meat in the store the US would eat more of it and would help the price the producer gets paid be higher. The US used to have a lot of sheep farms, large ones but when wool prices tanked and then the US started importing so many lambs they killed their own sheep industry. DH's grandpa used to run a sheep farm for many many years with well over 500 breeding head of sheep, when the wool market tanked he switched to meat goats and when that market tanked he quit having livestock. Locally our friends father raised suffolk sheep for his entire life and had over 1000 breeding head but again when the wool and meat market tanked he sold out of sheep and switched to Angus cattle. The farmer's locally think we are insane for trying to raise sheep for meat and tell us you cant make a living on sheep...they tell us the same for goats and pigs though. As far as they are concerned you raise cattle or crops anything else is a waste of time and money.


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## Hawaiianhighlandsfarm (Oct 17, 2016)

We are raising Clun Forest with a very minute amount of Kathadin in the bloodline. Since the CF breed is considered a dual purpose breed, I am looking to expand my flock exponentially. I am only on 2 acres right now with one ewe and one ram, but have the possibility of acquiring 20 acres if I can get into full production. 

I am one of those beginners mentioned earlier that got into this thinking I would just raise a few for fiber and fun but I want to take it more seriously. My dilemma is marketing and slaughter. There is no open slaughterhouse on this island. The two main cattle ranchers have their own on-site. We had a mobile slaughter operation attempting to get started but paperwork and certifications railroaded that one. Since sheep aren't USDA monitored you have to have an inspector at your slaughter at a whopping $80 an hour to oversee the slaughter. So MOST people raising "alternative" meat sources here sell under the table, so it is hard to get an idea of the market here.


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## Baymule (Oct 17, 2016)

There is a USDA slaughter house 12 miles from us. They have the reputation of switching meat. I don't know what they charge for slaughter. There are several cattle raisers that use them, but I think they run enough cattle in at one time to make it worthwhile to keep tabs on what belongs to who.

We used a custom slaughter house and sold the lambs at hanging weight. The buyers then were responsible for paying the slaughter charges and picking up "their" lamb.


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## Mike CHS (Oct 18, 2016)

The small sheep holders around us will never get rich but most of the flocks are sustainable.  Most sell sheep for a flat price rather than by the hanging weight.   Prices are a bit higher for registered breeding stock but we are buying 6 bred Dorper/Katahdin crosses for $175 each.  Our Butchers process sheep for a flat fee of $75 but everything else is by the pound hanging weight.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 18, 2016)

Wow that's cheap! You found a good deal!


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## mysunwolf (Oct 18, 2016)

Our USDA butcher charges $130 flat fee for sheep. USDA or not makes a big difference in price since USDA operations have to pay the inspector to be there during operating hours. We butcher our own for the household and that certainly brings the price down 

As for the loophole that allows farmers to sell live animals to customers and then butcher them for free. While this is technically legal, multiple insurance agents and lawyers have warned us that we would be held accountable for any customers that decided to take legal action. As well as having the USDA/FDA/some other government agency come down on us for this practice. I know a lot of producers do this and get along just fine, but for us it's just not really worth it because our main goal is to raise meat for us rather than others. 

In short, I agree with some of the previous posters: we have bigger problems for sheep producers in this country than cheap NZ imports.


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