# Planning our future farmette!



## Nachoqtpie (Dec 4, 2011)

So, my husband and I are planning to have our own 20 acre farmette when he gets out of college. We want to do goats for milk, cattle for meat, chickens for eggs and meat, garden, orchard and beehives and probably some other random stuff as well. 

We want some suggestions on breeds of cattle (and goats) for our farm. We want to exclusively grass feed our cattle because we've heard that it makes for some super lean tasty meat. Also, should we split up the goats and the cattle since they will have different fencing requirements? Since we're wanting exclusively grass feed, how many acres do we need per cow? I've heard that 1 acre per cow is a good ratio. Should we do 2 separate enclosures and switch so they can have something to eat in "winter?" (We live in southern NC, and want to go no farther north than Raleigh NC, but would like to go a bit more south, no farther south that mid-GA tho) Are these too many questions and details?! 

Any breed recommendations? We may once in a while do some cows milk for the purpose of butter and cheese, but will be almost exclusively for meat. 

(I did a very similar post for goats as well, so sorry if you see both!  )


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## Cricket (Dec 4, 2011)

I like Jerseys for milk and meat.  A Jersey steer butchered at 18 months is very tender.  I usually get a day old calf and raise it for beef--castrating and dehorning is important.  I've fenced goats and cows together--we use a pretty high octane electric fencer.  The only trouble I had was a doe in heat that was trying to get a bull to breed her--he wasn't interested and ended up kicking her in the jaw.  I don't have goats anymore because we don't like goat milk and they are HELL on fruit trees if they do get out.
Have fun with your plans!  Cricket


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## 77Herford (Dec 4, 2011)

More details the better for us to help you.  As for putting Goats with Cattle, I've never done it but I know a few who do and some that don't.
I think it helps for the cattle to grow up with goats around but even then a fiesty cow playing with a goat can end badly.
As for Goats milk, I'm not so much a fan of it as I am with Cow's milk but to each their own.  For meat, Goats meat is good too and comes to market weight faster than cattle
You live in a nice climate for year around grazing though I bet you get the ocasional freeze so having some hay around wouldn't be a bad idea.
I like Alpines myself for Dairy goats but you'll find MANY goat people on here with much more knowledge in goats.
As for a farmette cow I always think of Dexters.


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## Nachoqtpie (Dec 5, 2011)

Okay, so, I should probably just go ahead and separate the goats and the cattle then.. 

I know there is a guy here in NC (lives in Yanceyville) that is exclusively grass-fed beef, and he does sell some of his to places like Wholefoods Market, and has a little outlet right on their farm. He's got about 800 acres tho... we're not going to get that many...  

I've never heard of a Dexter before. They are interesting looking! How much beef do you think a family of 4 will need in a year? Do you think 1 cow will do it? 2 cows? I know it will depend on their dressing size, but if a Dexter is 600-1000 pounds that would make their dress weigh probably about 500-900 pounds? Maybe less? That seems like a lot of meat! LOL 

Do you think 1 acre per cow will be enough? Especially if we're going to grass feed exclusively. We have pretty mild winters here with very little snow, if it snows at all. Of course, if we move farther north, that could change, but I wouldn't expect it to change too drastically. Ideally, we will move a little farther south, maybe away from the coast a little (bye bye beach  ) but it will all depend on where hubs can find a job after college. Who knows... we may end up in the middle of Wyoming! (It's cold there.. I know... LOL)


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## WildRoseBeef (Dec 5, 2011)

In your neck of the woods, 1 acre/cow should be just fine. Up here it's around the same, but more acreage needs to be had to make hay for the winter months that we get.  I wouldn't put goats and cattle together especially if you are getting a young bovine.  Young bovines often get into rough-housing mode, far more than adult, mature cattle do, and you may end up having your goats getting more injured than what was intended. 

As far as meat is concerned, I've found that one 1200 lb steer can yield around 40% to 50% if its body weight in ready-to-serve beef.  The one steer we butchered a while back, which had a liveweight of around 1200 lbs, had a carcass weight of 650 lbs and we probably got a bit more than 500 lbs of boxed beef from him.  That's more than enough for a family of four for even one year: that could probably hold you over for two.  Heck we had to give some of the meat away to family there was so much to go around!  Of course we're not big beef eaters, but we still love our home-grown steaks and hamburgers. 

I've heard Dexters are pretty good, though the meat we had wasn't from a Dexter but from a Simmental cross.  With Jerseys and Holsteins they take a lot longer to finish up, even on grass, than beef breeds like Angus or Shorthorn are, but I've heard tell the meat is pretty good.  I wouldn't go the route of getting a bottle calf though, as you could let yourself get too attached to it to even consider eating it, not to mention bottle calves are harder to care for than a 6-month old beef steer.


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## Chickie2378 (Dec 5, 2011)

depending on pasture size, goats eat what cattle will not.  So that combo is good.  If you section off pasture rotation, the goats eat more weeds and cattle tend towards grass.  

So think doubling up critters per section.  A chicken tractor also will benefit.    Think all the critters and their needs and double/triple up pasture to be sure it is all being used at one time, then rotate.

I have had goats with cattle all the time. No problems other than if 'you want to catch a goat' and shake a feed can, oh yea, the cattle come also. 

for shelter, make the entrance to a barn 'small' one that a goat can enter and a cow can not.

research the web for grass fed per acre.  Your location is important.  Being Southern my grass goes long into January vs. somewhere else.


Also don't think just milk from a goat.  A smoked goat roast is delish.


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## herfrds (Dec 5, 2011)

If you end up south of me the acreage per animal changes drastically.

We butchered a steer in October and he was 947 pounds on the rail. That should last our family at least 6 months. We also have 1 lamb and 1 pig in the freezer too.


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## Nachoqtpie (Dec 5, 2011)

What do you mean herfrds? Will I need less acreage? More? I used to raise horses in Ohio, but we mostly grain and hay fed with some turn-out time.


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## Cricket (Dec 5, 2011)

Ha!  Karin in ref. to getting attached to a bottle calf--the beauty of it is in the timing.  If you have your Jersey butchered at 18 months, they are at the height of pesky obnoxiousness.  Then you get a new calf right off and don't eat the new freezer beef for a month.  Jersey bulls cost about $10.00 around here most of the year and are easy to find, beef cows very pricey.   There's sure a lot of different angles depending on the part of country you live in, eh?  I never thought much about it before--very interesting to me!
Cricket


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## WildRoseBeef (Dec 5, 2011)

Nachoqtpie said:
			
		

> What do you mean herfrds? Will I need less acreage? More? I used to raise horses in Ohio, but we mostly grain and hay fed with some turn-out time.


I'm not herfrds, but I think they're from Montana where acreage is a lot more per animal unit (or per 1000 lb cow).  You don't worry about your acreage, as I mentioned before, *in your neck of the woods* your acreage for your area is just fine.  If you want to be absolutely sure, visit some neighbors or see a county extension agent on proper stocking rates for your area, since you are located in South Carolina.


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## WildRoseBeef (Dec 5, 2011)

Cricket said:
			
		

> Ha!  Karin in ref. to getting attached to a bottle calf--the beauty of it is in the timing.  If you have your Jersey butchered at 18 months, they are at the height of pesky obnoxiousness.  Then you get a new calf right off and don't eat the new freezer beef for a month.  Jersey bulls cost about $10.00 around here most of the year and are easy to find, beef cows very pricey.   There's sure a lot of different angles depending on the part of country you live in, eh?  I never thought much about it before--very interesting to me!
> Cricket


Cricket, you definitely will catch me swooning over a cute lil' Jersey calf!  But of course you got a point, once they get to the age that they're more of a holy terror and have worn out their cuteness, then definitely I'll be happy to get him on my plate instead of putting snot down my back pockets!    I think it will be up to the OP on what to choose, especially as far as price is concerned when purchasing their first beef animal--be they beef cattle or a dairy bull calf.  But of course it doesn't hurt to tell experiences from a body's part of the country.


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## Nachoqtpie (Dec 5, 2011)

Just about baby anything makes me twitterpated!


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## herfrds (Dec 6, 2011)

What Karin said.
It takes more acreage up here to raise a steer or cow because it is an arid place. Where you are currently you have a higher avg rainfall then we do.
So if you do move to Wyoming you need to keep that in mind.

Now where you are you could do that rotational grazing that beekissed had talked about because of the rainfall, but up here it would not work as well. It depends upon your water source too.


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## Cricket (Dec 6, 2011)

If I moved ANYWHERE I'd be starting my learning curve all over again!  Our version of rotational grazing the last few years has been trying to keep the pastures from turning to instant mudhole.  I wonder whether it's harder to have grass not grow at all or to watch your hay go by and not have enough dry days to get it in?!

To be honest, I think if you're not  used to eating grass fed dairy cows, you might not be impressed.  Someone gave us rib steaks that I assume was western beef--they were a whole lot richer and had more marbling.   But mine does compare well with local beef cows.

I'd think too that you'd want to know if you could get access to a bull that would be compatible with your cow size-wise if she didn't settle well with AI.  Or get a cow and bull that you could start your own breeding program--possibilities are endless!
Cricket


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## 77Herford (Dec 6, 2011)

A Bull is nice to have if you have forty cows but for one or two I would either rent one for breeding or get AI.
Unless your Bull is going to be a draft animal, all they do is breed and eat.


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## Nachoqtpie (Dec 7, 2011)

We thought about having a bull around... but... I'm not so sure that it's a good idea because he would be trying to breed everything all the time and I'm not sure how many calves we would need a year to keep us up with meat. I guess part of that depends on what breed of cow we get! I told hubs that I wanted to go get some grass fed beef, but the closest I can find it is about 3 hours away. I'm going to have to do some more poking around I think. I did find one that is rather close to me that is grass and grain fed, but it's all natural and apparently all the grain they use is grown on site. *shrug* Maybe we should at least try it. 

I'm not really moving to Wyoming.. LOL I don't want to go any farther north than Raleigh NC! 

We still have a lot to think about before we get our farmette... it's all still very confusing right now.


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## Ms. Research (Dec 7, 2011)

Nachoqtpie said:
			
		

> We thought about having a bull around... but... I'm not so sure that it's a good idea because he would be trying to breed everything all the time and I'm not sure how many calves we would need a year to keep us up with meat. I guess part of that depends on what breed of cow we get! I told hubs that I wanted to go get some grass fed beef, but the closest I can find it is about 3 hours away. I'm going to have to do some more poking around I think. I did find one that is rather close to me that is grass and grain fed, but it's all natural and apparently all the grain they use is grown on site. *shrug* Maybe we should at least try it.
> 
> I'm not really moving to Wyoming.. LOL I don't want to go any farther north than Raleigh NC!
> 
> We still have a lot to think about before we get our farmette... it's all still very confusing right now.


I'm in planning stage too.  Will be confusing until you really set down a plan. And how can you set a plan?  Doing exactly what you are doing, which I'm doing.  Asking questions, researching, figuring out what you want your plans to accomplish.  It's fun, it's scary, it's confusing, but IMHO, the best way to make sure you are on the right path.  

Wishing you all the luck in getting your plans together.  Will be excited to see how it all works out for you.  And what your final plan will be.  

K


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## herfrds (Dec 7, 2011)

I would just AI the cows then you do not have to deal with the bull.

Just take it one day at a time.
The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

I finished one of our steers on both grain and grass. I have to say he finished out a lot better then the ones we did not grain.
Got one I am feeding out the same way and he is turning out nicely. Can hardly wait til spring.


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