# newborn with skin issues - she's gone



## peachick (Nov 29, 2011)

I hesitate going public with this. (because often people on forums prefer finding fault over offering support...  most of you know what  I mean)
But I have expired all of my resources.  Even the Vet is turning to Cornell university for answers.  We are doing a biopsy today  
I figured Id post this for you all..  It is quite interesting, and none of my goat breeder friends have ever heard of, nor seen anything like this.

I acquired a day old black baby goat born 11/17.  When  I got her the tissue around her mouth and chin was hard and she had a lot of white ick stuck to her coat and on her legs.  I dismissed it as the colostrum that the breeder gave her....  thinking that getting it into her was a struggle  and it made a mess all over her.  But She also had thin hair around her eyes, and her ears were thick, and the inside was crusty.

Now she is 12 days old.  We have tried everything, to clear it up with no luck.  We have ruled out every possible cause we can think of. She has been on several different medications, supplements, baths, sprays, and ointments.  

The hard tissue around her mouth has now pealed off  leaving bald  white skin underneath,  she has more hair loss around her eyes  and one eye is now cloudy.  Her ears dont feel thick and heavy anymore  but they are still crusty,  The white ick that is stuck to her skin is dry and flakey, as well as having hair loss in the heavier areas....  The crustyness on her skin resembles a baby with cradle cap.

She does not itch. She does not have a fevor.  She does not have wounds,  scabs, blisters, or any oozing.  She eats like a fool and is growing and gaining weight.  Pooh and pee is normal.  Activity level is slow. She just has this nasty crusty skin...  and now, a cloudy eye   Vet will be here today to get some skin samples to send off to Cornel....  think I'll be sending the breeder the bill.

I will keep you guys posted on this.




DSC_0032 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr




DSC_0018 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr


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## Ms. Research (Nov 29, 2011)

So sorry to hear about Black Betty.  Such a sweetie.  Hope you get some clue on what it is.    Will keep looking to see any updates.  Hopefully someone can give you a clue on what's really going on and a simple resolution can be found.   Hopefully just a external issue, not internal.  

K


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## 20kidsonhill (Nov 29, 2011)

rain rot has been bad in virginia this year, my guess would be some kind of fungus.  half my herd had crusty ears a couple months ago.  Although they were all adults.  

do you know the kids history?  



We had a doe years ago that had some kind of weird skin fungus thing going on, very thick and very crusty, and when she kidded both her kids got it, with in days. We were unable to clear it up, and because we were afraid it would spread to the rest of the herd we had all of them put down. It pretty much covered the adult does belly and creases in her legs between her belly and her legs. and then was spreading from there. None of the other goats in the herd ever got it. It looked like the worst case of ringworm you ever saw.


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## ksalvagno (Nov 29, 2011)

Have you tried Camelid Skin Mix? I would buy the stuff from Light Livestock Supply since that also includes an antifungal. There is a recipe online but isn't quite the same.

I wonder if she is having problems absorbing nutrients or something. I hope you can figure it out. Good luck with her.


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## Roll farms (Nov 29, 2011)

Have you seen the dam lately?  I'm thinking this had to be something that started in utero if she was 'born this way'...
Has the breeder got any idea / input / etc?

I have absolutely no idea of anything helpful to add, but I want to thank you for sharing....experiences like this that we can all learn from are exactly how we grow.
Please do keep us posted and I sure hope the vet / Cornell / you get her straightened out.


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## peachick (Nov 29, 2011)

I saw the dam when I picked up the baby.  She was young  but appeared healthy...  I didnt examine her though.  

I also think that this babys condition is congenital, and not something she came in contact with like mange or ringworm.  At 1 day old  she was too young to be covered in a bacterial or viral skin infection.  I am hoping it is caused by a copper or zink deficiency from the dam...  even thyroid perhaps.  And that this is something that can be turned around.

The fungal issue in Virginia...  well this baby did come from VA  and  i know the goat yard was in pretty bad shape.... I am spraying (soaking) the baby daily with an anti microbial treatment (for the past 2-3 days)

I have the baby in the house with another myotonic baby of the same age.  Developmentally  the white baby is WAY ahead of this black girl.  The black girl is much less animated, although  I do occasionally see her act frisky...  but not near as much as I should.  I have not seen any crustyness depeloping on the white baby.  and I have been very careful to wash my hands after handling the black baby.  They have had no contact with my other goats.

Leaving to meet the vet in 15 minutes...  wish me luck


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## daisychick (Nov 29, 2011)

I am NO EXPERT, but I will put out a long shot.   Could it be a Thyroid issue or iodine type issue??  I know dogs are a different species....but my dog had a thyroid issue and started getting hard crusty skin and peeling skin and was slow moving etc....  Once we got her on thyroid medication it cleared up.   Just a thought.   I have no idea if this is something that can give goats skin problems.  

Check out this link I found, maybe it will help.  Towards the middle of the page.   
http://kinne.net/hairloss.htm


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## cmjust0 (Nov 29, 2011)

I have no clue about the skin thing, but if I had to guess, I'd guess it to be the result of some kind of deficiency in the dam during pregnancy..  What caught my attention here was the cloudy eye, and only because I think it's unrelated..  If it wasn't, I'd think it would be *both* eyes since, like you said, this condition doesn't seem to be anything she caught..  

Check to make sure you can see all her top and bottom eyelashes in the cloudy eye..  They can develop a condition called "entropion" which is where edge of one (or both) of their eyelids are turned inward..  It's not super common, but not all that rare either.  I've had two cases of it over the years.  I know mama can sometimes cause it if she cleans the baby vigorously, so I'd imagine a human scrubbing and washing a baby could probably cause it as well.  It's worth a shot to look for, anyway. 

If that's not it, I'd go for some kind of opthalmic antibiotic (terramycin eye ointment, for instance, if you can find it) and probably a systemic antibiotic like BioMycin as well..

Good luck with this one.  Wish I had more to add, but I've never seen anything like what you're describing.


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## peachick (Nov 29, 2011)

just home from the vet.
Whew... im emotionally exausted 

First question from her was....  "is this a PURE mini silky goat"  ... yes.  
Then she asked..... "How inbred is she"...  probably extremely inbred.  Since this baby came from one of the original breeders.

She took 2 skin samples from baby  to send to Cornell....  results back in 2-3 days.
She did a skin scraping, and saw no 'bugs'.
She looked at the cell formation of the skin and hair and said they were abnormal.
Specifically  the hair itself.....  there is pigment in the hair at the tip, but as it gets closer to the skin there was less and less pigment, and a weak root on the hair folicle ......  that explains why i pulled out a chunck of hair while trying to give an injection a few days ago.

Tissue on the babys face and ears are pealing off.  she looks soooo bad.  Vet thinks that this baby  MIGHT develop OK  but  will probably either turn white or go bald.

OMG  I feel so bad for this little thing  she is really breaking my heart.

I have teramycin for the eye,  vet said it could be from the same conditoin (abnormal cells)  or just an irrated eye due to the flakey skin.

Im a little too upset  to go into more detail.  but  I thought  Id at least give this update.

I gotta calm down before calling the breeder.

Thanks guys


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## SmallFarmGirl (Nov 29, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> just home from the vet.
> Whew... im emotionally exausted
> 
> First question from her was....  "is this a PURE mini silky goat"  ... yes.
> ...


Ohh.. I know how tough that is  I hope betty gets better and gets a fresh new sparkling black coat again !! 

I am getting a goat named Betty Boop !! They'll need to meet each other some day !!!


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Nov 29, 2011)

Kat - Good Luck!  I know you love your animals and when you care for them like you have, it makes it even harder.   Keep up the fight!  And let us know what the breeder has to say.


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## ksalvagno (Nov 29, 2011)




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## that's*satyrical (Nov 29, 2011)

I know nothing about this but just wanted to say I hope you find out what is wrong with your sweet baby & can find a way to make it better.


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## elevan (Nov 29, 2011)

Wow.  Sorry you're having to deal with this  

My first thought was a yeast infection.  Certainly possible to transfer to the kid in utero and can go crazy on a susceptible immune system.  I'm interested to find out the results of the testing.


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## doxiemoxie (Nov 29, 2011)

My suspicion is allergy or hormonal irregularities.  I am glad you are having the vet do a thorough work up on her.  I sure hope she outgrows it.  Hang in there and know you're doing the best you can for this little girl.  Try not to take it too personally and get too worked up about it; just love her and be gentle with everyone involved (that includes YOU!)


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## peachick (Nov 29, 2011)

thank you everybody 
A yeast infection almost sounds right, actually....  explains the cheesy crust on her skin. )  
Sooo, I'll give her next bath in cranberry juice?  LOL

The Vets mind set is that its possibly a genetic defect from inbreeding...  I sure hope shes wrong.

I am feeling a little better...  less angry   glad I didn't call the breeder (yet)

Baby just had a good meal and this afternoon seems almost perky.


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## wannacow (Nov 29, 2011)

This is just "out there" because I can't remember what it tests for (sorry, I have teenagers  )  But if you hold the bare spots under a black light it may show "something".  I can't remember if it's yeast or mites.  I've been out of the ER for 5 yrs and we rarely had to examine under a black light.  (Not too many skin "injuries" are seen in ER.)  Whatever it is, will glow.  Sorry this doesn't help alot, but may give you and your vet a place to start.


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## Livinwright Farm (Nov 29, 2011)

Hmm...   brittle hair folicles pairede with decreased pigmentation usually indicate some sort of deficiency... that paired with a potential yeast infection ... sounds like a doosey, but each are individually easily treatable.

Cranberries & yogurt for the yeast infection(topically & as feed)

Deficiency could be copper, vitamin E, Iodine, ... 

I wouldn't assume rain rot, just because Kat mentioned that there are no scabs or oozing spots... which are a-typical with rain rot.


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## elevan (Nov 29, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> thank you everybody
> A yeast infection almost sounds right, actually....  explains the cheesy crust on her skin. )
> Sooo, I'll give her next bath in cranberry juice?  LOL
> 
> ...


You know I'd be tempted to get some women's yeast infection medication (cream) and apply a some to a test spot 1x daily for 7 days...


The medicated cream is perfectly safe to use externally on goats...it's in the wound ointment  that I use.


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## PattySh (Nov 29, 2011)

I wonder if it will culture strep or staph? Hope the baby does ok. Another thought, Is the kid on formula? I've had some puppies react to formula similarly, with skin sloughing. I've never had that happen with goat's milk. Could she be allergic? I wonder if a bath with chlorahexidene would help.


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## Roll farms (Nov 29, 2011)

I wonder, if it is yeast, if gentian violet would help.  It cured my daughter's thrush almost instantly when she was a baby.
You can get it from a pharmacy.

Sooo many suggestions, if you try them all you won't know what worked, 

Good luck and please continue to keep us posted.


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## sunny (Nov 29, 2011)

The symptoms this little goat has fits Biotin (vitamin B7) deficiency. Skin problems that look crusty (like cradle cap on a baby) loss of hair particularly around the eyes and mouth, lack of muscle tone and incoordination. Because Biotin is responsible for fat and sugat sythesis it could theoretically cause blindness from a diebetic type condition and would definately affect growth and developement...

 The Biotin needs B5 with it to work. The nice thing about this is that B complex is cheap and harmless and impossible to OD on.    Might help couldn't hurt...


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## Ms. Research (Nov 30, 2011)

How's the baby doing today?  

K


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## peachick (Nov 30, 2011)

yes,  it is a lot of suggestions....  and I appreciate them all!
Since I have been living with this for about 2 weeks,  most suggestions had already been considered, except for the yeast thing.  I will read back and try other ideas again.

funny story... last night I decided to try the female yeast medicated cream on black baby.  Im sitting on the floor in my bedroom, baby goat in front of me and I start slathering this cream on both of baby's ears.  Hubby walks in....  LOL  Stops dead in his track.  "What are you putting on her?"  So I tell him.  I get a shocked look, and he just shakes his head.  When Im done,  I let baby go, and she decides to start bouncing around the bedroom. Hubby says,  and I about died laughing,   "Oooh  she likes the hoohoo cream"
ahahahah

Not sure the cream will help, but it will at least soften up the crust.

Last night was the most animated I have seen her...  she was frisky for at least 10-15 minutes....  a record for her.  Normally  I get about a 10 second show, and then shes done.

Today,  I think I see some pigment coming in around her mouth and ears.... the skin seems less white.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Nov 30, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> yes,  it is a lot of suggestions....  and I appreciate them all!
> Since I have been living with this for about 2 weeks,  most suggestions had already been considered, except for the yeast thing.  I will read back and try other ideas again.
> 
> funny story... last night I decided to try the female yeast medicated cream on black baby.  Im sitting on the floor in my bedroom, baby goat in front of me and I start slathering this cream on both of baby's ears.  Hubby walks in....  LOL  Stops dead in his track.  "What are you putting on her?"  So I tell him.  I get a shocked look, and he just shakes his head.  When Im done,  I let baby go, and she decides to start bouncing around the bedroom. Hubby says,  and I about died laughing,   "Oooh  she likes the hoohoo cream"
> ...


Great news!  I am praying for Black Baby and you.  And praises to your hubby.  My wife would put me in the barn, if I had a goat running around our bedroom.


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## elevan (Nov 30, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> yes,  it is a lot of suggestions....  and I appreciate them all!
> Since I have been living with this for about 2 weeks,  most suggestions had already been considered, except for the yeast thing.  I will read back and try other ideas again.
> 
> funny story... last night I decided to try the female yeast medicated cream on black baby.  Im sitting on the floor in my bedroom, baby goat in front of me and I start slathering this cream on both of baby's ears.  Hubby walks in....  LOL  Stops dead in his track.  "What are you putting on her?"  So I tell him.  I get a shocked look, and he just shakes his head.  When Im done,  I let baby go, and she decides to start bouncing around the bedroom. Hubby says,  and I about died laughing,   "Oooh  she likes the hoohoo cream"
> ...


Glad she was feeling frisky    And that sounds like something my DH would say  

I would think that if it's yeast then you'll start seeing marked improvement tomorrow (after you apply more tonight).

If you aren't giving B Complex...I'd add that too.  I "like" sunny's suggestion on that one.  But if you want to "know" what's working then I would wait until tomorrow night to add it so you can see what the cream is doing.


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## elevan (Nov 30, 2011)

A suggestion if this turns out to be yeast....if she's that susceptible then she will continue to be her entire life.  Which means during breeding you're going to want to "protect" her kids in utero.  You could do this by feeding her some of those yeast prevention pills that they sell for women (in the same section you get the cream)...the brand name is AZO but there are generics available.  I'd probably do 2 pills 2x a day during gestation.

I've dealt with yeast issues in other animals (and humans) in similar fashion.  So that's just what I'd do if she were here.

I'm looking forward to your updates.


eta:  Heck I might add the pills to her treatment right now...crushed up and added to some yogurt and drenched (but I'd only do 1 pill 2x a day for a kid).


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## wannacow (Nov 30, 2011)

elevan, would she have to use the pills or would feeding a good quality live culture yogurt be enough?


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## sunny (Nov 30, 2011)

Another idea would be to add a Diamond V product. To squeeze out the bad yeast with good yeast, like we do with probiotics which is what AZO is, Lactobacillius. It also contains mistletoe which can cause abortions. Yeast has to have sugar to survive on so, no mollasses for this kiddo for a while.
 Yeast and deficiency don't have to be seperate. Yeast can be opportunistic or it can be causing deficiency by using up nutrients.
 What I'm not buying though is yeast iches, badly, just ask my little dog. He scatched continuously during an attack before we got a handle on it.


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## Livinwright Farm (Nov 30, 2011)

sunny said:
			
		

> The symptoms this little goat has fits Biotin (vitamin B7) deficiency. Skin problems that look crusty (like cradle cap on a baby) loss of hair particularly around the eyes and mouth, lack of muscle tone and incoordination. Because Biotin is responsible for fat and sugat sythesis it could theoretically cause blindness from a diebetic type condition and would definately affect growth and developement...
> 
> The Biotin needs B5 with it to work. The nice thing about this is that B complex is cheap and harmless and impossible to OD on.    Might help couldn't hurt...


Unless you get the B-Complex gel from Jeffers, or have a bottle of the injectable, you can crush 1 Vitamin B-Complex tablet meant for people, but you will need to crush a B-1 in order for the combination of the different B vitamins to be at correct levels for a goat.


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## elevan (Nov 30, 2011)

wannacow said:
			
		

> elevan, would she have to use the pills or would feeding a good quality live culture yogurt be enough?


Yeah, maybe.




			
				sunny said:
			
		

> Another idea would be to add a Diamond V product. To squeeze out the bad yeast with good yeast, like we do with probiotics which is what AZO is, Lactobacillius. It also contains mistletoe which can cause abortions. Yeast has to have sugar to survive on so, no mollasses for this kiddo for a while.
> Yeast and deficiency don't have to be seperate. Yeast can be opportunistic or it can be causing deficiency by using up nutrients.
> What I'm not buying though is yeast iches, badly, just ask my little dog. He scatched continuously during an attack before we got a handle on it.


Yeast is often very opportunistic.  But it doesn't always itch.


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## peachick (Dec 1, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> wannacow said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well  the hair loss around her mouth is starting to crust over again ....damn.
But her behavior is good...  she almost acts like she feels good. (not great  but good)
I spoke with the pharmacist yesterday. Was rather interesting about some of the over the counter skin treatments.
It looks  like Im going to try different products on different parts of babys skin, so see what gets results.
yeast cream on the ears, hydrocortisone on front legs,  Lamisil on back legs, neosporin around her mouth
GEEEZ


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## Ms. Research (Dec 1, 2011)

Sorry to hear Baby is still having issues.  Hoping you find something that helps.  

K


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## ksalvagno (Dec 1, 2011)

I just thought of another cream - NuStock. That works great for a lot of skin issues along with the Camelid Skin Mix. I know you can get both at Light Livestock Supply but I would think you could get NuStock other places too.


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## Stacykins (Dec 1, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> sunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was browsing around on Caprine Supply last night, they have the injection version of the vitamin B complex in stock , while Jeffers does not. 

Peachick, I hope your baby gets better, we're all rooting for her!


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## peachick (Dec 1, 2011)

ohh  the injectable b complex sound great  Thanks!

I snapped a few photos this morning...  so you guys can see what Im dealing with.  I just got off the phone with the breeder....  he is as stumped as anyone...  but he feels its a thyroid issue.
I dunno.....  lab test should be here tomorrow.




DSC_0014 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr




DSC_0026 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr




DSC_0023 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr


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## wannacow (Dec 1, 2011)

Poor little thing...    She needs lots of cuddles!  Hope you get a handle on this.  Thank you for trying so hard.


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## Hillsvale (Dec 1, 2011)

my ram lamb had an eye that looked like pink eye then clouded over like that... couple shots of LA Pen fixed him up...

Poor girl looks a bit ratty and I suppose the "greasy" bits are your glopping stuff on trying to make her better. 

Two things that have worked really well for me is a little tub of miracle cream from Lee Valley, my son gets really severe psoriasia on his hands... cracks and bleeds but this stuff *really helped*. 

I get scaley bits on my shins and thighs in the winter, eczema ... I use a vasaline type antibiotic cream for that. 

I agree that she has some sort of deficiency ... and her scales do look "psoriasis like"... poor baby.

Good luck


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## cmjust0 (Dec 1, 2011)

Hmm..  

Psoriasis is an autoimmune disorder.. An autoimmune disorder would kinda makes sense here as it's not something the animal would "catch" per se, and this baby obviously hasn't had time to catch anything..  In looking for autoimmune skin disorders of veterinary medicine, something called "pemphigus foliaceus" popped up.  Doesn't _exactly_ look like what your baby goat has, but it does tell us that it's not uncommon for animal to have autoimmune disorders of the skin..  Having said that, I'd definitely keep autoimmune disorders on the short list..

I wonder if at some point, if only to rule it out, your vet might start this baby on a round of dexamethasone to hamper its immune system..?  If it improved, you'd have a pretty good idea that it was autoimmune in nature..  Of course, anytime you start one on steroids like dex - especially one with what looks to me like a crack-prone dermatological condition - you'd have to accompany it with antibiotics, but a vet would know that..


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## autumnprairie (Dec 1, 2011)

poor baby, I hope you get answers soon.


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## doxiemoxie (Dec 1, 2011)

I was thinking more about little Betty and wondered if you were able to feed her colostrum the first few days?  Also is she getting goat's milk or replacer milk?  I was just thinking that she might benefit from the immunoglobulins in raw milk/colostrum.  While all of this screams autoimmune or endocrine to me, it also be a disease she picked up from mom, such as chlamydia.

Keep up your good work! and thank you for letting us be involved.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 2, 2011)

How is she doing?


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## peachick (Dec 2, 2011)

the breeder gave her some artificial colostrum the first day...  probably wasn't enough.

update on some test treatments.....
I dont see any change on the ears  where I put the yeast cream---  no better, no worse.
However,  the area on her legs where I put the hydro-cortisone has cleared up.  Healthy looking skin there.
Hmmmm
I wonder if I can buy it by the gallon 

looking online at autoimmune disorders.  this looks as close as I can find to what this baby is experiencing...

*Pemphigus foliaceus *(most common canine and equine autoimmune skin disease, also reported in cats and goats) 
Small swellings under the surface of the skin (bullae or pustules) ...  NO
Crusting ...YES
Scale (scurf or dandruff) formation ...YES
Loss of hair (alopecia) ...YES
Black pigmentation of the skin (hyperpigmentation) ...NO AND ITS A BLACK GOAT
Sloughing of the foot pads ... NO 
Itchiness (pruritus) ... NO
Usually affects the head and nose, but can be generalised ... YES

I am sitting impatiently (pacing actually) by the phone  waiting on test results.

editied to add that behavior is really improving...  she seems more animated every day.


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## cmjust0 (Dec 2, 2011)

Hydrocortisone is a steroid, and steroids suppress the immune system.  If you're *positive* it's not some kind of an infection, talk to your vet about a round of dexamethasone with antibiotics (again, the a/b's are just a precaution)..  If it's autoimmune, I would think Dex would improve it.


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## peachick (Dec 2, 2011)

The site that I found that list of symptoms  has this info at the bottom of the page for treatment...
Yep, It makes sence that the steroid would have helped her...  prognosis is not ideal though.

Skin 

Bullous autoimmune skin diseases 
Drugs to suppress the immune response. Combinations of these are often given together : 
Corticosteroids - eg prednisone or prednisolone 1-2mg/kg body weight by mouth twice daily 
Cytotoxic drugs 
azathioprine 2mg/kg body weight daily or on alternate days OR  
cyclophosphamide 2 mg/kg body weight daily for 4 days per week 
Gold salt therapy - 1mg.kg body weight of sodium aurothiomalate every week 

http://www.provet.co.uk/petfacts/healthtips/autoimmunedisease.htm#g


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## GLENMAR (Dec 2, 2011)

Poor little girl.  Peachick, your animals are beautiful. One day I will get some birds from you. I hope you 
are able to get the baby cleared up.


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## elevan (Dec 2, 2011)

Have you gotten the lab results back?


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## Ms. Research (Dec 3, 2011)

Hoping the lab results are in.

Thinking of Black Betty and hoping for the best.

K


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## peachick (Dec 3, 2011)

no lab results yet.... no word back from the vet .... not even a returned phone call
feeling discouraged enough to find a new vet, to be honest.

The crustiness on her skin has gotten worse...  especially on the areas that the biopsy was done.  The area was shaved,  and now  it's completely crusted over.
bought 2 tubes of hydrocortisone yesterday and used one whole tube on her yesterday


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## greenfamilyfarms (Dec 3, 2011)

Have you tried a sulfur based product (such as Nu-Stock ) by any chance? Do you think she could have an allergy to the milk you are giving her?


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## peachick (Dec 3, 2011)

I am starting to wonder about the milk actually.  I got a private message  sugesting I dont give her cows milk.
Well heck  Im giving her cows milk as every meal  AND adding yogurt to it.

So today  I mixed up kid formula and will start giving that.


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## autumnprairie (Dec 3, 2011)

Sendingd lots of prayers your way


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## elevan (Dec 3, 2011)

That poor baby.  I hope her spirits are still good. And I hope that you get answers soon so you can start using whatever is most appropriate to treat.  If you have another good goat vet close then it might be a good idea to get a fresh set of eyes and opinions on her.


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## PattySh (Dec 3, 2011)

Her skin is screaming some sort of infection to me.  After seeing those pictures, I had a poodle that kept crusting like her and I would bath him in MICROTEK shampoo  then sprayed him all over with MICROTEK spray by EQyss. Was the only thing that healed him up. Its the same formulation that they sprayed the astronauts down with to decontaminate them.  You leave the spray on. You can find it in most horse supply places, it's nonstinging  you can use it on the open skin areas and nontoxic and you can use it on her face safely. Good stuff. Sure hope you can get this baby healed up.


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## peachick (Dec 3, 2011)

Just talked to the vet....  and picked up a round of dexamethasone.
The vet also agreed that this could very well be an autoimmune issue...  even though we still have no results from the biopsy.
Her skin is just hyper hyper reactive it seems...  hopefully the dex calms things down.

Told the vet that the area surrounding the biopsy is hard and crusty...  she said the alcohol and betamin that she cleaned the area with probably really dried her out.

SOOOO.  I feel we are on the right track now and I can start getting her better.

I did pick up a tube of that nu-stock...  will go put that on her now...  The woman at the feed store said its the best stuff! but It stinks bad!  LOL  I am adding some baby oil to this to help soften her skin.

Yes  her spirits are improving every day...  fortunately.  She was adorable this morning bouncing around...  its been a long 2 weeks waiting for her to act like a happy baby,  but  shes SLOWLY getting there.

Thank you everybody for your support and interest in my lil baby.  Hopefully soon I'll be sharing photos of a beautiful little goat....  instead of the crusty goat you have seen so far.


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## greenfamilyfarms (Dec 3, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> Just talked to the vet....  and picked up a round of dexamethasone.
> The vet also agreed that this could very well be an autoimmune issue...  even though we still have no results from the biopsy.
> Her skin is just hyper hyper reactive it seems...  hopefully the dex calms things down.
> 
> ...


Yes it does!!! I wear gloves when I apply it and you can still smell it on your hands afterwards.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 3, 2011)

Kat - I was through your neck of the woods today.  I almost stopped in to check on you and the little Baby.  Glad to hear she is improving in spirit and hoping you get somewhere with something to help her.


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## peachick (Dec 3, 2011)

Thanks Ed.  you lucky ya didnt stop.  I would have just depressed you with my whining


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## daisyjack (Dec 3, 2011)

my guess is it is a Staphylococcal dermatitis or STAPH INFECTIONS. http://en.allexperts.com/q/Goats-3480/2008/6/staph-goats.htm

I hope she feel better


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## Ms. Research (Dec 4, 2011)

Glad to hear you got some kind of handle on what's going on with Baby.  Really glad to hear her bouncing around.  Hoping to see those Beautiful Goat Pics soon. 

K


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## Roll farms (Dec 4, 2011)

Kid formula is made from cow's milk....if it's a milk allergy, switching to that may not help.
Do you know anyone w/ a goat in milk?  If you were closer, I have 2 freezer fulls, we could raise her to weaning on it if it helped.


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## peachick (Dec 4, 2011)

Well  today's report is....

She is OK.  
The pigment in her skin has come in nicely... it went from white to blue/black in the past few days....  YAY!
More of the crustiness has come off....  leaving her ears and about half of her face almost bald...  but at least the skin underneath looks healthy.
Her eye is slowly getting better.  The entire eye is not cloudy anymore...  But there is one fairly large white spot on the eye...  makes me wonder if the cat scratched her.  I have a young cat that is fascinated by the goats, and is always beside their pen in the kitchen.

She is on kid formula instead of milk....  omega 3 supplement added once a day.
idaily injections of dex....

I am using that stinky medicine on her legs chest and neck,  I put a second application on her today...  directions said repeat every 3 days...  so  will wait before doing it again.  

So  Im looking at a tiny baby with patches of dry flakey skin, with bald eyes ears and mouth, one eye is white, and she has yellow stinky goop smeared all over her...... precious.


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## Livinwright Farm (Dec 4, 2011)

ahhww... poor little thing... glad she is getting better though.


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## autumnprairie (Dec 4, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> Well  today's report is....
> 
> She is OK.
> The pigment in her skin has come in nicely... it went from white to blue/black in the past few days....  YAY!
> ...


That is so great to hear,,,,,,,
for her eye ask your vet for some eye ointment for ulcerated eye. That will clear it up nicely she may have an eyelash turned inwards


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## PattySh (Dec 4, 2011)

AAAAWWWWW!!!! Poor baby and poor you! Did I mention that Micotek smells nice!    I  am actually using  the stuff on myself  on a minor exema patch  on my neck and it is mostly   gone after 2 days.


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## peachick (Dec 5, 2011)

Thank you Patty  I will pick that up, since this will most likely be a long time issue....  The vet also compared it to eczema .  She thinks that once we can get this initial outbreak under control, and then just maintain any minor outbreaks she has throughout her lifetime.

The yellow stinky goop is gross,  but  it promises to heal fast and get hair growth back fast....  we'll see.  

When I look at her skin under the hair....  in the healthier areas ,  her skin just looks soooo  dry...  as if she has no oil in her skin at all.  Makes me want to dip her in olive oil


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## cmjust0 (Dec 5, 2011)

So, do you reckon it's the cream/goop stuff, or the Dex that's helping?

Also, did your vet have you put her on some kind of antibiotic while she's going through the dex??  If not, I would.  Betcha anything your vet would agree, but it wouldn't hurt to call and ask.  

Yanno those med commercials on TV that say stuff like "Nocuritol may increase your risk of infections, which may become life-threatening" and/or "...reduces your body's ability to fight off infection," etc?...those are usually drugs for autoimmune conditions, not unlike dexamethasone. Just FYI.


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## breezy B ranch (Dec 5, 2011)

She is one lucky baby that she ended up with you!! Can't wait to see pics of her when she's all better!!


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## Queen Mum (Dec 5, 2011)

Where are the pics?   We love baby pics...  Even goopy, icky little baby pics.


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## peachick (Dec 5, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> So, do you reckon it's the cream/goop stuff, or the Dex that's helping?
> 
> Also, did your vet have you put her on some kind of antibiotic while she's going through the dex??  If not, I would.  Betcha anything your vet would agree, but it wouldn't hurt to call and ask.
> 
> Yanno those med commercials on TV that say stuff like "Nocuritol may increase your risk of infections, which may become life-threatening" and/or "...reduces your body's ability to fight off infection," etc?...those are usually drugs for autoimmune conditions, not unlike dexamethasone. Just FYI.


She is not an antibiotics right now...  but  I am holding my breath the lab calls today with some results...  its been a week.

Well  the pigment and eye getting better  really was happening before the dex.  shes only been on dex for 2 days  (today will be her 3rd injection,  then we go to every other day for the rest of the week.

The crustiness of her skin has not gotten worse and a lot of it has exfoliated.  I dont see it crusting over again where it has come off...  like around her mouth.  In fact  looking closely at her this morning  I see a hint of new hair growth around her lips....  fingers crossed.
As for her behavior....  shes is still in the "depressed" category,  but she has longer sessions of energy...  mostly do to maturity I imagine and her body healing itself....  I dunno.  Im just thankful shes not getting any worse... 

breesyB -  I have often said  that the breeder is a smart man for calling me that day...

Queen Mum.  I took pics yesterday.  I hesitated to post...  but since you asked.....




DSC_0027 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr




DSC_0017 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr

the patch on her shoulder was a biopsy site that was shaved...  and then crusted over due to the harsh alcohol and betadine used to clean the area....

The yellow goop dried to a lovely yellow chalk that makes her look green in the sunlight.

Shes a beautiful baby, aint she? :/


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2011)

She looks pitiful! Hope she gets better!


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## Chickie2378 (Dec 5, 2011)

I am a farmer and that kid would be a cull for me for sure.

but  I am wondering, why you raise goats?  Don't get me wrong at all, I understand 'more of a pet status and want to do right by that thinking' but wondering what if your herd is personal status or commercial status?     just wondering.

and what did the biopsy report as possible cause?  In all my 15 years of goats I have never seen this?


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## elevan (Dec 5, 2011)

She's gorgeous, despite the goop!  I'm really rooting for her


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## Queen Mum (Dec 5, 2011)

She looks darling.   You got to love her for hanging in there.  Maybe a bath when all is said and done.  First baking soda to clear all the gook off, then Lemon juice to restore acid base balance to her skin.  Then more gook.


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## jodief100 (Dec 5, 2011)

She is loved and it shows.  That makes her beautiful.


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## peachick (Dec 5, 2011)

Chickie2378 said:
			
		

> I am a farmer and that kid would be a cull for me for sure.
> 
> but  I am wondering, why you raise goats?  Don't get me wrong at all, I understand 'more of a pet status and want to do right by that thinking' but wondering what if your herd is personal status or commercial status?     just wondering.
> 
> and what did the biopsy report as possible cause?  In all my 15 years of goats I have never seen this?


My status?  I have the time, patience, means, and interest in seeing this baby live to her potential.


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## Chickie2378 (Dec 5, 2011)

status I meant usage.  Personal use for goat milk, use for meat in freezer, hair goats.  that type of thing.  probably worded that wrong lol

personal use I would do more to keep livestock vs. cull.

If commercial use I would cull for bottom line dollars most times pretty fast.


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## peachick (Dec 5, 2011)

well  mini silki goats are an "ornamental" breed (for lack of a better word)
They are bred to be pretty little farm pets.

This baby came from the founder of the breed.  So  Im thrilled to have her.
As an adult  she should look something like her sister Elvira....  in my profile photo.


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## Chickie2378 (Dec 5, 2011)

if she is ornamental and a farm pet, sure I would also go overboard for a fix.

that black goat pic is a hoot!  the hair is wild!


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 5, 2011)

Chickie2378 said:
			
		

> if she is ornamental and a farm pet, sure I would also go overboard for a fix.
> 
> that black goat pic is a hoot!  the hair is wild!


Not to be rude sounding, but you do realize this forum is called BYH  (BAck Yard Herds).  Not commercial herds. There are very few people on her that would consider themselves commercial herd farmers. There are a couple, but not many. and I have known some big time commercial herd farmers that would go to great lengths to save an animal. Me for one.  I am an advocate of isolation and good biosecurity practices, but I am also a big believer in putting effort into each and everyone of them.


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## blessednest (Dec 5, 2011)

I have an 8 month old Nigerian Dwarf that I just got biopsy results back for today. Pemphigus foliaceous. While researching I came across this thread. I'm trying to find out what may help the poor little guy without turning him into a pin cushion. I would love to know if your beautiful little girl has the same thing. Some of the information I've found has listed Dexamethazone (sp) and a promising treatment. I just wonder what the long term affects would be since my vet has told me he would have to be on prednizone for life. Wishing you the best and will be watching for updates on her treatment.


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## Ms. Research (Dec 6, 2011)

She might look a little pitiful now, but hoping this will pass and she's her beautiful self in no time.  

DH asks if you ever used Pine Tar Soap.  That's excellent for all skin irritations.  If all else fails, maybe bathe her with it a couple times.   DH knows people with shingles, mercia and a bunch of other skin irritations that this takes care of.  An old remedy.  

Just a suggestion.  Hoping she's already on the right track to healthy life. 

K


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## peachick (Dec 6, 2011)

Well  WELCOME to BYH!!

Sorry you are having similar problems with your boy.
Hopefully one round of steroids will fix both of our kids.
I still dont have lab results back  but  i am expecting the same diagnosis.
My vet commented  that once this is cleared up  she'd probably not need the steroids again unless  she has another outbreak.
I guess we just have to wait and see....  since few people have ever experienced this with their goats. 

So  your boy was not born with it?? What areas on his body and face are effected?  And what treatments have you tried?  Supplements?  I am actually wondering if the omega 3 supplement that  I have been giving her since about day 3 is maybe the biggest help.  One benefit of omega 3 is it aids our immune system.


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## peachick (Dec 6, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> She might look a little pitiful now, but hoping this will pass and she's her beautiful self in no time.
> 
> DH asks if you ever used Pine Tar Soap.  That's excellent for all skin irritations.  If all else fails, maybe bathe her with it a couple times.   DH knows people with shingles, mercia and a bunch of other skin irritations that this takes care of.  An old remedy.
> 
> ...


the yellow goop  i am using on her is sulfer and pine oil...  hence the lovely smell!


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## Ms. Research (Dec 6, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> Ms. Research said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, good to hear.  DH says pine tar and Phelsnafta soap have been used on exterior skin irritations and diseases for decades.  With success.  Good to hear. 

We are both hoping she's 100% in no time.

K


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## peachick (Dec 6, 2011)

"Crusty" Black Betty got another bath today.  I just had to wash off that yellow stuff.  I use a flea comb on her  to help remove some of the crust on her legs and sholders  once the water has softened it.  After her bath  I put  hydrocortizone in the bad areas.  Am undecided about the smelly yellow goop 
I am keeping her and her playmate "Zoom"  in a puppy exercize pen in the kitchen.  The smell of the meds and their maturing digestive system is becoming too much.   They are 2 1/2 weeks old now.  They spend their days outside,  but indoors at night and bad weather (raining today).  Its time to move them outside full time  ....  soon.

Still no word on the bipopsy :/


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## blessednest (Dec 6, 2011)

Peachick, my little guy is 8 months old. He was absolutly fine until about a month and a half ago. I noticed he looked like he had mites and was biting his feet and tail area. Treated the whole herd and expected all to be well. He didn't clear up so I retreated him. Still little to no improvement so I called the vet in. He treated the whole herd again even though he is the only one with symtoms. I called him a week later to say it was still there and we put him on antibiotics. He did improve slightly for a few days then it started looking bad again. That's when we decided a biopsy was in order. He called me yesterday morning with the results and treatment options. He feels we will need to keep him on prednisone for the rest of his life. I'm really not comfortable with that so started looking into the disease. (That's how I found you) I am a bit more hopeful that this can be treated successfully than I was yesterday.

He seems to be affected mostly on his face from around both eyes about half way down to his nose. He also is scabby/scally around his feet and tail. The rest of his body seems unaffected. He eats fine but I have noticed that he stays mostly to himself or with his mother. And of course he hates me now since I'm always poking him with sharp objects. I really hope your biopsy results come back with better news. Your little girl is adorable.


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## KellyHM (Dec 6, 2011)

My first instinct after reading your initial post was an autoimmune issue.  I went ahead and read the rest and am glad to see you started her on some steroids.  I hope she does well for you!


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## peachick (Dec 6, 2011)

blessednest said:
			
		

> Peachick, my little guy is 8 months old. He was absolutly fine until about a month and a half ago. I noticed he looked like he had mites and was biting his feet and tail area. Treated the whole herd and expected all to be well. He didn't clear up so I retreated him. Still little to no improvement so I called the vet in. He treated the whole herd again even though he is the only one with symtoms. I called him a week later to say it was still there and we put him on antibiotics. He did improve slightly for a few days then it started looking bad again. That's when we decided a biopsy was in order. He called me yesterday morning with the results and treatment options. He feels we will need to keep him on prednisone for the rest of his life. I'm really not comfortable with that so started looking into the disease. (That's how I found you) I am a bit more hopeful that this can be treated successfully than I was yesterday.
> 
> He seems to be affected mostly on his face from around both eyes about half way down to his nose. He also is scabby/scally around his feet and tail. The rest of his body seems unaffected. He eats fine but I have noticed that he stays mostly to himself or with his mother. And of course he hates me now since I'm always poking him with sharp objects. I really hope your biopsy results come back with better news. Your little girl is adorable.


So sorry about your baby.  My girl has no symptoms with itching, or her feet.  And she was born "crusty".  But  like with humans  we all react differently.  I hope you get your boy cleared up quickly.  Maybe after a week of meds  he will get back on track  and you can limit the meds.  

My report on Black Betty is ...  she is feeling good.  Her pigment has filled in, in all the bald areas.   The hair is coming in around her mouth nicely...  except for the area above her nose that is loose, hard and still needs to peel off.  Her eye is looking good  and  I believe her vision is good in that eye.  I am now quite optimistic on her recovery.  

I sure appreciate everyones comments and support on this list... it is amazingly helpfull.

Kelly - thank you, she is really improving nicely now.


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## elevan (Dec 6, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> My report on Black Betty is ...  she is feeling good.  Her pigment has filled in, in all the bald areas.   The hair is coming in around her mouth nicely...  except for the area above her nose that is loose, hard and still needs to peel off.  Her eye is looking good  and  I believe her vision is good in that eye.  I am now quite optimistic on her recovery.
> 
> I sure appreciate everyones comments and support on this list... it is amazingly helpfull.




The folks on this board are amazing with their support.  I am glad that Black Betty's prognosis is optimistic.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 7, 2011)

Kat,

I think we need a today update.  I know it has been raining yesterday and today, so I will give you some slack.  But Thursday and Friday are suppose to be sunny, so how about some updated photos.


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## doxiemoxie (Dec 7, 2011)

I need an  "I <3 Black Betty"  t-shirt with her picture.


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## peachick (Dec 7, 2011)

haha you guys!

wellll  I am discouraged today.  I left a message for the vet to find out the status on her lab test....  no word back.
Maybe my Lil Crusty  has even stumped Cornell University!  (its been 8 days since her biopsy)

She lost a large patch on the top of her muzzle last night.  The skin there now is red and ugly...  putting neosporin on it.
I dont understand the eye problem,  but  now the other eye is acting irritated.  

These 2 girls will be moving outside...  maybe tomorrow.  Tonight  we went out to dinner  for my sons birthday,  when we walked in the door  little Zoom  was running around the living room...  and there is a wet spot soaked into the sofa...  GAAAH!   I dont want to move Black Betty out yet...  but they are beginning to smell like goats..... they are 3 weeks old tomorrow.


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## PattySh (Dec 7, 2011)

Hang in there  You've gone way above what most people would have done for that little doeling.  I hope it turns out well. I also have an off season  kid in the house. I have Bambi  in a puppy playpen and use puppy pads in the pan under her grated pen. It's pretty easy to clean up. Plus the top shuts tight and she can't escape. How long did the vet tell you it would take for results? Maybe certain tests take longer?? Curious if the breeder offered another doeling?


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## peachick (Dec 8, 2011)

Yes  the breeder offered another doeling.....  nooo thanks!
The vet said it would take 2-3 days for the lab test....  but  i assume they are doing a culture on it...  so  that would normally take  longer.

I have one of those puppy pens with the grate  but  since  I have 2 babies in the house, they needed more room.  I have taller excercize pens I use for the babies outside, but the one indoors is only knee high so that I can step over it.  gonna make different accomodations for them today.  Wish I had an attached garage!  Walking out to the goat building every couple hours for bottle feedings is going to be a pain....  especially if we get snow.  But  I need to get the goat smell out of the house,  or hubby will move ME out to the goat building.


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## peachick (Dec 8, 2011)

For your morning Black Betty entertainment....  bam ba lam

http://youtu.be/lMLnDuzgkjo


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## Ms. Research (Dec 8, 2011)

Thanks Peachick.   Enjoyed the entertainment.  

Hoping all goes well for you getting the little ones settled outside.  

K


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## wannacow (Dec 8, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> For your morning Black Betty entertainment....  bam ba lam
> 
> http://youtu.be/lMLnDuzgkjo


Too funny!  That brings back memories.  Funny thing is I think the lead singer is my neighbor!    I'll have to send the link to him and see if he's not been telling the "truth" about his past...  hmmmm...


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## peachick (Dec 8, 2011)

Got a call from my vet at 8am today.
She received a fax from Cornell  University regarding the biopsy on my little girl.  There will be an addendum soon ...  as the case is being sent to their dermatological department.  Current findings and diagnosis are ....
1.... possible  juvenile Pemphigus foliaceus (the autoimmune issue that  I also believe it is)
2.... possible  drug reaction (I dont know what the breeder gave her  that first day,  but she did not get antibiotics until she was 4-5 days old)

Vet said  she will do her homework on treatment.  In the mean time  we continue with the steroid injections for the rest of the week,  and  I'll continue using the topical hydrocortisone cream on the crustier areas.

here is the definition....
_Pemphigus foliaceus (PF) is generally a benign variety of pemphigus. It is an autoimmune skin disorder characterized by the loss of intercellular adhesion of keratinocytes in the upper parts of the epidermis (acantholysis), resulting in the formation of superficial blisters. It is typified by clinical involvement of healthy-appearing skin that blisters when rubbed_


here is a promising case study I found....
_
***Successful treatment of juvenile pemphigus foliaceus in a Nigerian Dwarf goat.
Cornish J, Highland M.
SourceDepartments of Medicine and Epidemiology, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California-Davis, Davis, CA 95616, USA. jgamehen@gmail.com

Abstract
CASE DESCRIPTION-A 2-month-old female Nigerian Dwarf goat was evaluated for a generalized crusting dermatitis; signs of depression; and fever of 1 month's duration. CLINICAL FINDINGS-Histologic evaluation of skin biopsy specimens revealed subcorneal pustules and rafts of acantholytic cells. No etiologic agents were detected in the biopsy material, and bacterial culture of skin biopsy specimens yielded no growth of pathological organisms. A diagnosis of pemphigus foliaceus was made. TREATMENT AND OUTCOME-Remission was achieved with a combination of SC administration of dexamethasone and IM administration of gold sodium thiomalate. The goat remained free of clinical signs for at least 26 months after discontinuation of all medications. No clinically apparent adverse effects of treatment were evident. CLINICAL RELEVANCE-This report represents the first description of successful treatment of juvenile pemphigus foliaceus in a goat by use of a novel protocol involving dexamethasone and gold sodium thiomalate._


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## ksalvagno (Dec 8, 2011)

That is great that UC Davis had a good outcome. Hopefully your vet can contact them and get the dosages that they used. I hope you have a good outcome with this little one.


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## daisychick (Dec 8, 2011)

Glad you finally got some of the lab results back.   I hope it helps her to get better.


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## elevan (Dec 8, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> That is great that UC Davis had a good outcome. Hopefully your vet can contact them and get the dosages that they used. I hope you have a good outcome with this little one.


x2


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## cmjust0 (Dec 8, 2011)

I really hope the Dex works..  Can't remember but, did you ever start her on an antibiotic?  If not, I *definitely* would now that you've got a sore that's getting neosporin'd..  That's just the sort of thing that can get outta hand when the immune system is hampered with steroids..


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## peachick (Dec 8, 2011)

She is not an any antibiotics right now.  The area on her nose is healing nicely.  Might not have need the neosporin,  but  it couldn't hurt, right?

I did take some updated photos today.  The one thing  I notice in these photos is that the hair on her body is looking better...  it feels softer and looks healthy now....  almost has a shine to it.  YAY  Legs are still thin in the crustier areas...  but they are not as crusty as before.

You can see how the pigment around her mouth, eyes, and ears has filled in,  and hair is growing in around her mouth.  The new bald spot on the top of her muzzle is healing well.

Her eyes....  you can see the white mark on her eye in one photo.  I still am thinking the cat is responsible for the eye issues.  One eye is almost completely healed, and now the other one has a mark on it...  I put a tetracycline eye ointment in them twice a day.

Her physical maturity is still very slow...  little Zoom is all over the place, running and jumping...  Black Betty only does a few bounces and wont even try to climb on anything....  but she trots after me and stands straight...  no longer hunchbacked.




DSC_0002 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr




DSC_0012 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr




DSC_0009 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 8, 2011)

Zoom is definately named well.  Have you been able to get a picture of her standing still?


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## peachick (Dec 8, 2011)

standing still?  is that possible?


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## Ms. Research (Dec 9, 2011)

Can't wait to see Black Betty running like Zoom.  It appears as though you are getting her to that place.  Congratulations on all your hard work for this baby. 

K


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## peachick (Dec 9, 2011)

Thank you...  she has consumed my time these past 3 weeks...  but today she was feeling good and bouncing around....  it seems we have good days and bad days (both of us).
I cant wait to show her off when shes finally looking good and zooming around with her buddy.


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## peachick (Dec 9, 2011)

A Cornell University dermatologist called my vet today about my crusty baby goat.
Apparently  he is "extremely interested" in her case...  and asked for weekly photographs.
He believes this is a very rare congenital skin disorder that is almost never seen in animals...  however it is a devastating illness in human babies...  called..... Epidermolysis bullosa (EB)

The reason he feels it is EB and not a juvenile skin disorder is because she had it at birth.
Gosh,  just when I was thinking she was recovering 

I cant tell you how bad  I feel for this little baby.
If this doctor is correct,  my baby wont get better.


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## Stacykins (Dec 9, 2011)

I know that isn't the best news, but the Cornell vet may try to help your baby at no cost to you, because what they learn about her condition can be documented and used to help others too. My uncle who is a professor of veterinary medicine in Iowa (livestock vet) said they'd do that when unusual cases came in. They had more tools available to analyze the problem, too.


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## Ms. Research (Dec 10, 2011)

So sorry to hear about "Black Betty" and her "rare" skin disease.    My thoughts are with you and her through this hard time.  Hopefully the Cornell Vet can study this "rare" occurrence and something good will come out of it.  

K


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## doxiemoxie (Dec 10, 2011)

Oh Peachick, don't be distraught!  Yes, this is sad but there is a lot to be hopeful for.  Many diseases are just managed instead of cured.  And having access to veterinarians who want to watch and monitor is a good thing.  Don't be shy about asking them to be involved in treating her (and paying for some of it!)  Just sit down when you can think critically, about the extent you want her to be "experimented" on.  I have my own experience of owning ill animals so I understand to some degree those ups and downs.  I admire your dedication and cry over your fears and frustration.  

With that said, did this Vet make any recommendations regarding how much sunlight Betty should get?  And does he think that the EB is causing the problems with her eyes?


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## cmjust0 (Dec 12, 2011)

Just because the guy at Cornell thinks it's EB doesn't mean she's not recovering, because the guy at Cornell could be dead wrong.  In fact, based on what I just read about EB, it doesn't sound like the same thing to me.  Im sure you've read up on it, too..  It seems to me that if it was EB, the scrubbing and rubbing you've done already would have sloughed all her skin off -- but it hasn't.  And she's not oozy and blistery..  And like the Cornell guy said himself, the disease he's talking about is "almost never seen in animals"..  And his reasoning seems to have been "because she had it at birth" -- seems flimsy to me.

I still think it's autoimmune.  Autoimmune conditions happen in animals, and people and animals are born with autoimmune conditions all the time.  Granted, I'm not a researcher for Cornell, but...well, I'm just not at all convinced that it's anything like what I'm reading about EB.

Soo...what's the plan going forward?


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## peachick (Dec 12, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Just because the guy at Cornell thinks it's EB doesn't mean she's not recovering, because the guy at Cornell could be dead wrong.  In fact, based on what I just read about EB, it doesn't sound like the same thing to me.  Im sure you've read up on it, too..  It seems to me that if it was EB, the scrubbing and rubbing you've done already would have sloughed all her skin off -- but it hasn't.  And she's not oozy and blistery..  And like the Cornell guy said himself, the disease he's talking about is "almost never seen in animals"..  And his reasoning seems to have been "because she had it at birth" -- seems flimsy to me.
> 
> I still think it's autoimmune.  Autoimmune conditions happen in animals, and people and animals are born with autoimmune conditions all the time.  Granted, I'm not a researcher for Cornell, but...well, I'm just not at all convinced that it's anything like what I'm reading about EB.
> 
> Soo...what's the plan going forward?


Yes  i agree.  After thinking about it over the weekend Im not convinced its EB either...  but  it dosnt fit the other autoimmune symptom list either....  she dosnt itch, and  I have never seen a blister.
I pick her up several times a day...  that alone  would cause her to blister up if it was EB.  
But  she dosnt blister  and her skin is not red and irritated...  its just crusty.  The Vet asked me to continue with the topical cortisone cream in the bad areas...  then make a note of how long it takes to clear up....  then stop treatment....  and note how soon the crustiness comes back.  

Im a little lost and confused to be honest.  Bettys behavior improved greatly after giving her the Dex.  But vet asked me to discontinue the Dex (I had 2 injections left) until we see what the cortizone does.  I dont want her to become a lab rat for their experiments.  But it is importent to follow through with this so that they figure out what it is and how to treat it.


----------



## autumnprairie (Dec 12, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> cmjust0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sounds like he is trying to see if you have to have both meds for sucess of getting rid of it, or if it will take just one.
I would be interested to see if the dex works without all the creams.
I am glad she is showing spunk and normalcy


----------



## peachick (Dec 13, 2011)

Well little crusty is feeling good these days.  Today  she was the most active and alert I have seen her yet.
Today she RAN!!  it was not a lil trot, she was running! .....  I almost cried.

She had another bath...  its the best way  i know to loosen up some of the dry flakes.  Then while shes still damp I rub the cortizone in....

The site that had the biopsy is clearing up nicely.  Hair is filling in  there, and hair is filling in on her face ( not her ears yet).    Both eyes look clear and healthy.  And her appetite is still great.    

I think tomorrow  I'll get more photos...  maybe video.


----------



## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 13, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> Well little crusty is feeling good these days.  Today  she was the most active and alert I have seen her yet.
> Today she RAN!!  it was not a lil trot, she was running! .....  I almost cried.
> 
> She had another bath...  its the best way  i know to loosen up some of the dry flakes.  Then while shes still damp I rub the cortizone in....
> ...


Kat - Excellent knews!  So glad to hear.  Remember Vets are Human's too.  They do their best and try their best.  But in the end, they are humans.  You are doing great.  Keep it up.


----------



## daisychick (Dec 13, 2011)

I hope she just keeps getting better and stronger every day.    She is sooooooo cute, crusties and all.


----------



## wannacow (Dec 13, 2011)

Yea!!!!


----------



## autumnprairie (Dec 13, 2011)

I am so happy.  keep doing what you are doing


----------



## doxiemoxie (Dec 13, 2011)

Go Betty Go!!!


----------



## peachick (Dec 14, 2011)

So something weird is going on..  maybe you guys can offer ideas.
Black Betty and Zoom are now outside full time.  they have a heat lamp available in their stall at night  and  I have a 3rd older doeling in with them  named Fawn (aprox 6 months old)  Fawn is with them mostly to keep Zoom company when I take Betty away for meds.

Anyway,  in the mornings Black Betty is always wet...  like her whole body is wet!  Its getting down to freezing at night.  So finding her wet at 7am in the morning kind freaks me out.  I have NO idea how she is getting wet...  shes not falling in the water bucket.  There is a small plastic dog crate in their stall that the smaller two sleep in,  but its dry....  no condensation on it.  Their bedding is dry.  The ONLY thing I can think of  is that one or both of the other babies is peeing on her when they wake up?  But even that would be a random event and not something that happens consistently, right?  Im kinda clueless here.  I have had to bring Betty in the house every morning  just to dry her off in the heat.

Poor Black Betty has enough stuff going on without catching phenomena.


----------



## autumnprairie (Dec 14, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> So something weird is going on..  maybe you guys can offer ideas.
> Black Betty and Zoom are now outside full time.  they have a heat lamp available in their stall at night  and  I have a 3rd older doeling in with them  named Fawn (aprox 6 months old)  Fawn is with them mostly to keep Zoom company when I take Betty away for meds.
> 
> Anyway,  in the mornings Black Betty is always wet...  like her whole body is wet!  Its getting down to freezing at night.  So finding her wet at 7am in the morning kind freaks me out.  I have NO idea how she is getting wet...  shes not falling in the water bucket.  There is a small plastic dog crate in their stall that the smaller two sleep in,  but its dry....  no condensation on it.  Their bedding is dry.  The ONLY thing I can think of  is that one or both of the other babies is peeing on her when they wake up?  But even would be a random event and not something that happens consistently, right?  Im kinda clueless here.  I have had to bring Betty in the house every morning  just to dry her off in the heat.
> ...


I would definately see, smell if it is urine not sure how goats would be around sick animals but I have a cat that will do that to my DH when his auto immune  disorder is acting up or going to get bad. She smells it on him.


----------



## Mamaboid (Dec 14, 2011)

This is going to sound crazy, but is there any chance she is having night sweats?  Humans who are on certain meds do it, maybe goats do too?????


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## Stacykins (Dec 14, 2011)

Some ingredients in creams are humectants, they absorb water from the air. Some of the stuff you're putting on her may be doing this. But it shouldn't be so dramatic that she is really wet.


----------



## peachick (Dec 14, 2011)

The vet is comming to see her again today...
stay tuned.
In the mean time.  I took a little video of her

http://youtu.be/ENjKKtOgTqY


----------



## elevan (Dec 14, 2011)

Thanks for sharing the video!


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## Queen Mum (Dec 14, 2011)

First of all,  my goodness she is cute and beautiful.   

BUT,  I note a number of things that are very interesting about her.  Her legs don't look straight.   She moves like her joints are painful or stiff.  So I don't think it's a matter of energy level so much as muscle or joint control.   If she has an autoimmune disorder that might be in line with the diagnosis.    I notice that she shakes out her hair often, like she is trying to shake something off.  This would indicate that her skin is bothersome or irritated which means she is overall compromised in some way.    This may be a characteristic of a silky goat but my gut reaction is that it is an irritability response.  

HOWEVER, she is a myotonic (fainting) goat, right?  Could she have some odd form of muscle disorder that is an aberration associated with her breed?  AND since she has the silky gene also have a genetic aberration as well that is associated to her hair?  You might check with the clinic and ask them if they will do some gene testing (for free) to see if this is a genetic issue.


----------



## redtailgal (Dec 14, 2011)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> I notice that she shakes out her hair often, like she is trying to shake something off.  This would indicate that her skin is bothersome or irritated which means she is overall compromised in some way.   .


Well, this thread was started cuz she had a skin issue, and in this video she had just had a bath........... She may have been just shaking the excess water off.


----------



## Queen Mum (Dec 14, 2011)

I didn't realize she had just had a bath.  That would explain the shaking.  LOL!  But she does seem to be very stiff though,


----------



## GLENMAR (Dec 14, 2011)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> First of all,  my goodness she is cute and beautiful.
> 
> BUT,  I note a number of things that are very interesting about her.  Her legs don't look straight.   She moves like her joints are painful or stiff.  So I don't think it's a matter of energy level so much as muscle or joint control.   If she has an autoimmune disorder that might be in line with the diagnosis.    I notice that she shakes out her hair often, like she is trying to shake something off.  This would indicate that her skin is bothersome or irritated which means she is overall compromised in some way.    This may be a characteristic of a silky goat but my gut reaction is that it is an irritability response.
> 
> HOWEVER, she is a myotonic (fainting) goat, right?  Could she have some odd form of muscle disorder that is an aberration associated with her breed?  AND since she has the silky gene also have a genetic aberration as well that is associated to her hair?  You might check with the clinic and ask them if they will do some gene testing (for free) to see if this is a genetic issue.


Agree. I don't think I would use her in a breeding program.


----------



## Ms. Research (Dec 15, 2011)

She really looks like she's trying.  Thanks for posting the video.  What a sweetie.   Looks promising.  

So what did the vet say?

K


----------



## peachick (Dec 15, 2011)

The vet got tied up for several hours at another farm...  so she will be here Friday instead.  I asked that we put her back on Dex, since her attitude and movement improved after starting it.

Yes she is very stiff moving.   I wanted you guys to see her movement in the video to confirm what  I see too.  
She cant climb or jump really.  Often I see her sleeping standing up, or struggling to lie down.  I have said  that her physical development  is slow...  I think it is because  shes just so limited in her flexibility.  I have also felt that her front knees seem large.  Putting her back on Dex should help with joint inflammation.

Yep She was shaking a lot in that video.  She wasnt dripping wet  but  she was damp.  I think because  under that hair,  her skin is flaky ...  it probably itched as it was drying...  she does not normally shake like that.

And BTW  she was not wet this morning when  I fed her...  I do think the last few mornings she was getting peed on.  

As for the myotonic gene.....  As tiny babies  they dont faint.  Zoom,  just in the past week has started fainting.  (so  age 3-4 weeks  it starts)  It happens  when they get over excited.  Their muscles contract, they loose their balance, and they fall over.  Yesterday, I saw Black Betty lock up and fall over while feeding her.  She got so excited that it was lunch time  she locked up,  leaned  against  the dog crate  and slipped down onto her side.  She was down for 2 seconds  and then back up again.  It usually happens pretty fast.  

I appreciate you guys!


----------



## SmallFarmGirl (Dec 15, 2011)

Fainting ??? How cute ...  She must love you !!!


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## Queen Mum (Dec 15, 2011)

I just wonder if her myotonic and silky *genes* are more tangled up than normal...

You know, if she had the myotonic disorder as a human, everyone would try to give her medication.  And there are some people with a disorder like that who have it worse than others or who tend to have co-morbid disorders.   I wonder if she is one of them.


----------



## peachick (Dec 15, 2011)

The monotonic gene is watered down quite a bit in the mini silkies....  a lot of them dont faint at all  or are only a level 1-2.

But, the gene pool is pretty small in the mini silkies...  so inbreeding could very well be a factor in this babys condition.
I asked the breeder about it and he did not think her breeding was too close.  I cant spend any energy on blaming him.  My focus is only on letting this baby thrive.  And no,  she wont be bred


----------



## Queen Mum (Dec 15, 2011)

Oh my gosh, I wasn't trying to blame the breeder, I was just musing that maybe little Black Betty might have gotten her skin condition as the result of a gene aberration.    Because.... that might make the place where you are having all the testing done be willing to give you more free vet services for the privilege of studying her condition.  

I mean, one must consider all the angles when caring for one's baby, don't ya know...


----------



## peachick (Dec 15, 2011)

oh  I know.  I only mentioned the breeder because  its been brought up a lot with friends.  I just cant let myself go into negative thinking.

I havent gotten any vet bills... yet.  But once  I get the final cost.  The breeder and I will be having a conversation.


----------



## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 15, 2011)

I have to say, I want to come vist to pick her up and give her a hug.  She looks to me like she could steal your heart in seconds.


----------



## peachick (Dec 15, 2011)

awww  Ed.  She really is sweet.   You are welcome to come see her.


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## doxiemoxie (Dec 15, 2011)

No, Ed, NO!   I know it isn't clear to anyone but me, but if Peachick can no longer take care of Betty she's going to come stay with ME!   Right, Peachick?  OK, Now that Everyone has THAT clear, I am anxiously awaiting the vet's assessment.  I am curious to see what he/she says about resuming the dexamethasone.  There are other steroids that might be safer to use longer term, as well as some meds that can provide a steroid-like calming of the inflammatory (immunity) system without causing as much havoc with the rest of her development.  And how are her eyes healing up?  

In all seriousness, Peachick, thank you for sharing and for keeping us informed.  You are doing a good job at focusing on the problem at hand rather than trying to blame someone else.  Bad things do happen and we have choices in how we deal with that.   I think the breeder made a good choice when he called you to help.


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## Ms. Research (Dec 16, 2011)

Today is the day the Vet comes to see Betty right?  Hoping something "comes to light" from this visit.  

K


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## peachick (Dec 16, 2011)

Dr Link just left.
And as she is driving down the driveway  I see Black Betty having a case of the zoomies!!  WOW !!!
 She and Zoom  were running around in a circle.  Then Betty  bounced up and kicked her feet a few times, and acted like a healthy happy baby goat....  Wish  I had my camera!!!!

Anyway  we are trying a different anti inflammatory/antibiotic med  that she used on an angora goat years ago...  treating  Pemphigus foliaceus.  She said  it wont cause long term problems like the steroid would.  It is a sulfa based pediatric oral med,  I'll add to her bottle twice a day.  (sorry  i cant read the name)
She said  with the other goat  she had the first initial round that worked well.  Then was treated 2-3 other times for flair ups.  And then never needed it again.  I am also giving her one more dose of BoSe.

Pemphigus foliaceus is the auto-immune disorder  we have kind of thought it was anyway.  Black Betty does not have typical symptoms,  but  I think we have ruled out that EB disorder completely.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 16, 2011)

Dr. Sarah Link is tops in my book.  She is extremely busy, but really good and really does care for our animals.  And when there is an emergency, she gets there.

Glad to hear about BB's zoom episode.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 16, 2011)

Where is the camera when you need it.  Yay!


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## elevan (Dec 16, 2011)

Just wanted to offer this up to you Peachick.

I've been doing some reading recently on B12 and it's effects on the human body and a deficiency being a suspected root cause in a variety of disorders (in humans) including autoimmune disorders.  It is also indicated in a depressed development situation.

It certainly couldn't hurt to put Black Betty on a B12 supplement...it might actually help.  Might be something to discuss with your vet.


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## SmallFarmGirl (Dec 16, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Just wanted to offer this up to you Peachick.
> 
> I've been doing some reading recently on B12 and it's effects on the human body and a deficiency being a suspected root cause in a variety of disorders (in humans) including autoimmune disorders.  It is also indicated in a depressed development situation.
> 
> It certainly couldn't hurt to put Black Betty on a B12 supplement...it might actually help.  Might be something to discuss with your vet.


Interesting Elevan ... I think that sounds like a good plan if the vet agrees ....


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## peachick (Dec 16, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Just wanted to offer this up to you Peachick.
> 
> I've been doing some reading recently on B12 and it's effects on the human body and a deficiency being a suspected root cause in a variety of disorders (in humans) including autoimmune disorders.  It is also indicated in a depressed development situation.
> 
> It certainly couldn't hurt to put Black Betty on a B12 supplement...it might actually help.  Might be something to discuss with your vet.


Yes  I agree.  I was giving her B12 injections the first week I got her,  but havent done it since then.  I will look into that again.   Thanks!!


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## SheepGirl (Dec 16, 2011)

ThreeBoysChicks said:
			
		

> Dr. Sarah Link is tops in my book.  She is extremely busy, but really good and really does care for our animals.  And when there is an emergency, she gets there.
> 
> Glad to hear about BB's zoom episode.


I love Dr. Link! She's my vet and she has been really good about helping me when I have an emergency if she cannot get to the farm.


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## peachick (Dec 17, 2011)

hi Sheepgirl.  I didnt know  I had another neighbor on here....  where ya at?

Yes  guys,  Dr Link is great..... so is her associate Dr Julie Dawson.. both have helped me greatly.


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## Ms. Research (Dec 17, 2011)

So glad to hear about Black Betty's zoomies.   Must of been a sweet sight to behold.  Just reading it brought a smile to my face.  

Hoping the zoomies continue for your sweet girl. 

K


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 17, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> hi Sheepgirl.  I didnt know  I had another neighbor on here....  where ya at?
> 
> Yes  guys,  Dr Link is great..... so is her associate Dr Julie Dawson.. both have helped me greatly.


X2


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## blessednest (Dec 17, 2011)

What a joy to catch up on little Black Betty's progress. So glad she has found her zoomies. 

I did note a few pages back about her being wet in the morning and wanted to share that a few years ago I had a bad case of mites on one of my wethers and he would be wet in the morning. No one could figure that one out either. We finally decided that his skin was so irritated that he was biting/licking at himself constantly at night. When we got the mites cleared up the wetness went away too. I'm sure your little one does not have mites but mabe the itchy skin is causing the same thing. My boy would be completely wet also.

My boy with the pemphigus is doing so much better. Between the vet and I we did some research and he found a vet who has had some luck treating this and he told him to use Depo-Medrol instead of the Dex. It lasts a week to 10 days in their system so I don't have to make a pin cushion out of him. His face is scab free and still a little flaky but it is such an improvement. We have also been giving him Exceed antibiotic once a week also. Today was his second round of the Depo-Medrol and his third shot of Exceed. I really don't think he will need the antibiotic after today and we will continue the Depo for two weeks after his last symptoms have cleared up then see what happens. The vet that has treated this successfully had one case that didn't flare up again for 7 months and one that didn't for 2 years. 

Again, I'm so happy to hear of BB's progress and hope that you can use any or all of the info on Pempigus to talk to your vet about. Just some other options for you.


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## peachick (Dec 18, 2011)

glad your boy is doing better.
They do know how to worry us  dont they!

My little Crusty has not had the zoomies all weekend   I go out with the camera and of course she wont show off.
She is feeling fine though....  Growing, and has a great appetite.  Even the vet commented at her good weight and that she was strong....  the lil fighter!
I am due for updated photos though,  so I'll try to get some tomorrow.


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## SmallFarmGirl (Dec 18, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> glad your boy is doing better.
> They do know how to worry us  dont they!
> 
> My little Crusty has not had the zoomies all weekend   I go out with the camera and of course she wont show off.
> ...


Come on little fainter/fighter !!! You will soon be ready and zooming again !!! and ...


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## peachick (Dec 20, 2011)

I havent gotten those photos yet...  but Little BB is doing well.
(Thanks Ed for nicknaming her BB, it works )

I see the start of some hair growth on her ears.  YAY
Hair around her mouth is almost completely filled in,  but it is still rather blotchy and crusty around her eyes. (and legs and sholders)

Her appetite is still great, although  shes had a messy bum from the flax oil I put her her bottle.... so now  Im putting pepto in her bottle.  sigh
Her attitude and behavior continues to increase.  (makes my lil heart so happy to see her bouncing around.)
I promise I'll get photos soon....  and/or video.


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## Ms. Research (Dec 20, 2011)

Glad BB is doing so well that she's bouncing around and hair growth on her ears .   Truly happy for you Peachick.   Lots of worry, trial and error medicines, and finally seeing some positive results.    Thanks for the updates and wishing continued success for BB. 

K


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 23, 2011)

How about an update?


----------



## peachick (Dec 23, 2011)

haha
well  no news  is good news  I suppose 
She is fine.  no change.

its been dark and gloomy here...  so havent had the camera out.
pretty today though  so  I'll get some photos of her.


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## peachick (Dec 23, 2011)

ok  guys
I got some photos
But  i promise you....  it aint pretty... This poor baby is so fugly  only her mama could love her. (me)

I dont want to call the vet yet.  but  I dont think that new medicine is working...  the crustys have not cleared up.
And, over the last 2-3 days  Her behavior is not as happy as Id like to see....  she is just sort of a lump again.





DSC_0007 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr


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## SmallFarmGirl (Dec 23, 2011)

AWWWW ... Poor baby ..  ... Hope soon she will recover !!


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 23, 2011)

Poor Little Thing.


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## wannacow (Dec 23, 2011)

ThreeBoysChicks said:
			
		

> Poor Little Thing.


X2


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## SheepGirl (Dec 23, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> hi Sheepgirl.  I didnt know  I had another neighbor on here....  where ya at?
> 
> Yes  guys,  Dr Link is great..... so is her associate Dr Julie Dawson.. both have helped me greatly.


I'm in Woodsboro


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## Ms. Research (Dec 24, 2011)

Darn.    Maybe a little more time for the new meds to really kick in?  

Poor BB.  Sorry, I know she looks awful, but all I see is a sweetie.  Wishing so much the new med starts kicking in.  Sending BB hugs and hoping for the best.  

Thanks so much Peachick for the continued updates and the pic.  Feeling your frustration as well.  I truly wish I had an answer to help your sweet BB.

K


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## peachick (Dec 24, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> Darn.    Maybe a little more time for the new meds to really kick in?
> 
> Poor BB.  Sorry, I know she looks awful, but all I see is a sweetie.  Wishing so much the new med starts kicking in.  Sending BB hugs and hoping for the best.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the support.  Yes,  it is frustrating...  she hasnt gotten worse....  just not really any better either.


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## SmallFarmGirl (Dec 24, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> Ms. Research said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ohhh .... I hope she recovers !!!!!!!!


----------



## autumnprairie (Dec 24, 2011)




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## peachick (Dec 25, 2011)

autumnprairie said:
			
		

> http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae141/letnotyourheartbetroubled/339514ed272a209f95.gif


Thank you 
Merry Christmas everybody!


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## SmallFarmGirl (Dec 25, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> autumnprairie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


back to you 40,000 times .. (for betty too!!)


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## doxiemoxie (Dec 25, 2011)

Sending happy Christmas wishes to our favorite little BB and her mama too.


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## daisychick (Dec 29, 2011)

Hoping little BB is doing ok.


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## Ms. Research (Dec 30, 2011)

How's BB doing?   Hope more zoomies and new meds kicking butt to make her better.  

K


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## peachick (Dec 30, 2011)

no shes not better (
the same actually
I tried that medicine for 2 weeks and see no improvement....  finished it yesterday.
And  I havent seen the zoomies in 2 weeks either.  Im not doing anything now...  no creams, lotions, shots, suppliments...
I think her behavior was best when she was on the dex.   The only time she is some what animated is at feeding time.  Most the time  she just stands around.
She is getting that hard crustiness around her mouth and nose again.  I imagine it will start pealing off like it did before.


----------



## spanish goatee guy (Dec 30, 2011)

i remeber a lady , once that raised boer goats had a young kid approx the same age as your kid , it had the same type issues i asked her what the deal with the little goat was and she told me '' just mites'' she acted as if it wasnt an issue but to me it looked odd, she said it had happend before and she rubbed it with some kinda mite dip, and months later the hair started fill in hope this helps.


----------



## peachick (Dec 31, 2011)

hi  thanks for your thoughts.
I wish this was only mites.
this is a skin autoimmune problem that she was born with.  She is not likely to get better.


----------



## peachick (Jan 4, 2012)

Well  here is another little update.
Little Black Betty is back on dex.
this time we are increasing the dosage  for 10 days.
Its kind of our last attempt to fix this.
The vet even said, that if this dosnt work, to consider......
(the E word)

YIKES!


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## ksalvagno (Jan 4, 2012)

Well, I sure hope this works for you. You have worked really hard on her and have been doing all you can.


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## doxiemoxie (Jan 4, 2012)




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## SmallFarmGirl (Jan 4, 2012)

(not the E word!!) Eutha- Can't say it !!!! Keep pushing !!! You got to make it !!!


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## autumnprairie (Jan 4, 2012)

I know that wasn't what you wanted to hear. How is BB mood and demeanor? 
Praying for you both.


----------



## Ms. Research (Jan 5, 2012)

Praying real hard for BB.  Hoping this time the dex works.  But had that "e" word in the back of mind too.  

Hoping for the best for your girl Peachick.  You have done an awesome job being her champion.  Hoping for the best for BOTH of you.

K


----------



## peachick (Jan 5, 2012)

thank you everybody,  your support is priceless.

BB's attitude is rather flat.  She just stands around or walks around  but not animated and active and silly like a tiny baby should be.
She does perk up when Im out there and trots around after me.  She loves feeding time.... and will sometimes try to climb on me.
But,  her sister Zoomie is a wild and busy girl.  She is getting big and strong  and sometimes knocks BB over.  As they are growing its obvious that BB is a miniature goat and is now about half the size of Zoom.  Yesterday  BB couldn't get back up after being knocked down....  part of that is that she is a fainter and so her legs were stiff.  But I watched her flail around for almost 2 minutes trying to stand up again....  so sad.  I finally had to help her up.  I fear that bloat will become a problem for her  if she cant get up on her own.  I dont want to seperate the girls,  but  I may have to.
*sigh*


----------



## daisychick (Jan 5, 2012)

I am hoping sooooo much that the new Dex round will help her.   She is such a sweet little goat and I hate that she just can't be "cured".   You have done such a great job with her.     Sending hugs to you and little BB.


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## autumnprairie (Jan 5, 2012)

daisychick said:
			
		

> I am hoping sooooo much that the new Dex round will help her.   She is such a sweet little goat and I hate that she just can't be "cured".   You have done such a great job with her.     Sending hugs to you and little BB.


X2


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## peachick (Jan 6, 2012)

I found little Black Betty dead this morning.

I know I invested too much energy into her,  but  for some reason  I had to.

Thanks again, your hugs and prayers mattered.


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## Ms. Research (Jan 6, 2012)

You did everything you could for your sweet Black Betty.  Sometime Nature wins.  It sucks.  

My heartfelt condolences to you and your herd.  

K


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 6, 2012)

peachick said:
			
		

> I found little Black Betty dead this morning.
> 
> I know I invested too much energy into her,  but  for some reason  I had to.
> 
> Thanks again, your hugs and prayers mattered.


Kat - I am so sorry, but it was most likely the best thing for her in the long run.  

You did what you felt was right and may you be richly rewarded for your kind heart and willingness to try with her.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear that.  You tried everything you could and worked so hard to get her healthy.  Hopefully she's zooming around somewhere right now, happy and full coat of black hair.


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## Mamaboid (Jan 6, 2012)

So sorry to hear this news.  You went above and beyond for this little girl, and made what little time she had as comfortable as possible.  You did good!


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## Goatherd (Jan 6, 2012)

My condolences, peachick.  While her life may have been short, you gave her love, comfort and care, an unconditional gift beyond measure.  You'll never forget her.


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## KellyHM (Jan 6, 2012)




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## daisychick (Jan 6, 2012)

So sorry to hear this.    You did such a great job with her.   I have learned a lot from this thread.   AT least now she can be without pain and never have to be poked with needles ever again.  She was a fighter.


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## wannacow (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm so sorry.    She was a fighter and you were a true caregiver.  You did a great job and gave it all you had.


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## autumnprairie (Jan 6, 2012)

RIP BB  you will always be remembered, So sorry for your loss Kat.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 6, 2012)

sorry,


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## jmsim93 (Jan 6, 2012)

so sorry...


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## ksalvagno (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm so sorry Kat. You really did everything that you could. She had a great life with you no matter how short.


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## cmjust0 (Jan 6, 2012)




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## Roll farms (Jan 6, 2012)

So sorry.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 6, 2012)




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## redtailgal (Jan 6, 2012)

Well, she certainly didnt die from lack of care or love.  You did an amazing job with her.


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## peachick (Jan 6, 2012)

you guys are awesome.  Hugs you all back!

I guess we can consider it a sign.......  Last nights sunset was incredible!




DSC_0004 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr


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## Queen Mum (Jan 6, 2012)

Little Black Betty made us all smile.
She kept us all on the edge of our seats.
She gave us some hope.
She taught us a ton about goat diseases.
We learned so much about compassion from you, in your care of her.
And we all appreciated every moment that she spent teaching us through your loving care.

Thank you so much for sharing her with us.


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## autumnprairie (Jan 6, 2012)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> Little Black Betty made us all smile.
> She kept us all on the edge of our seats.
> She gave us some hope.
> She taught us a ton about goat diseases.
> ...


That is Beautiful Sara

X2


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## elevan (Jan 6, 2012)




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## lilhill (Jan 6, 2012)




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## ragdollcatlady (Jan 6, 2012)




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## peachick (Jan 7, 2012)

I gotta tell you guys.  
I didnt even cry when I saw her dead yesterday morning. 
But reading your posts makes me cry...... your support, and your words are beautiful!
Thank you.

Ya know,  after I took that sunset photo  I never went back to check on her.....  sure wish I did 

I called the vet yesterday and left a message that BB died.   Because the Dermatologist at Cornell wanted a tissue sample from her if/when she died.  

OK  enough of this sadness.  My other goats are looking just too hairy and cute in their winter fluff.....  I'll take photos soon.  It will be good to get my attention back on them.

Also,  for those of you that know me on BYC.   I'll be posting wheaten egg auctions soon...  if its anything like last year,  it should be quite entertaining!!


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 7, 2012)

peachick said:
			
		

> Also,  for those of you that know me on BYC.   I'll be posting wheaten egg auctions soon...  if its anything like last year,  it should be quite entertaining!!


Entertaining is an understatement!


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## Ms. Research (Jan 7, 2012)

peachick said:
			
		

> I gotta tell you guys.
> I didnt even cry when I saw her dead yesterday morning.
> But reading your posts makes me cry...... your support, and your words are beautiful!
> Thank you.
> ...


How's Elvira?  And her beautiful daughter who's name, please forgive me, has slipped my mind.  Black and white beauty is what I remember.  

Can't wait to see pics!

K


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## peachick (Jan 7, 2012)

Elvira is getting even more hair...  if you can believe that!  Her bangs now are so long they hang past her nose!  Her beautiful little daughter Ivy
is becoming just as stunning.  She is very hairy,  getting bangs and a beard....  so darn cute!
She needs some grooming  but  Id love to get some updated photos of her.  It's warm today,  maybe  I'll get some grooming done.


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## doxiemoxie (Jan 7, 2012)

> Last nights sunset was incredible


Looks like a hug from God saying "Thank you for taking care of my creation"

I am so sorry and sad that BB left so soon.  But like everyone else here, I am grateful for all your time and effort and for sharing with us.  I hope your grief will bearable.

I also saw Ivy's pics and she's a little cutie!


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## SmallFarmGirl (Jan 8, 2012)

My condolences .... You did so much for her


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## SmallFarmGirl (Jan 8, 2012)

doxiemoxie said:
			
		

> > Last nights sunset was incredible
> 
> 
> Looks like a hug from God saying "Thank you for taking care of my creation"
> ...


Thats so pretty and true Doxiemoxie.


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## GLENMAR (Jan 12, 2012)

I have not been on here in a while. Sorry to hear about your little kid.


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