# Thank You Ladies For The Storage Ideas!!



## goodhors (Jan 12, 2012)

I can't remember who on here posted about the wire panels as roof supports for the 
tarped roof over their hay storage.  They showed the photos and CLEARLY explained
how they did things, how well it worked or how they needed to change things for 
the next season.

From reading the posts an idea hatched in my own head about using the cattle panels
for my sawdust bin as a roof.  One of those "I had a dream" things!!  Everything was 
clearly laid out in my dream, so putting it into practice was a snap!!

We already had the walls, solid, heavy to contain a large truckload of sawdust that we
use for bedding the horses.  My previous issue was getting the sawdust uncovered easily
in snow, bad weather, to get it out.  Shoveling ANY DEPTH of snow is hard work, but even
more difficult when you don't want to tear the tarp, tarp covers a LOT of area that is not 
level or even sort of flat.  We had tried a variety of "tarp trusses" over the sawdust
that kept the tarp up, and off, but were not successful for various reasons.  The biggest 
issue is that everything over the sawdust HAS TO COME OFF to allow the truck to back
into the bin and dump the load inside.  Then we had to put all the coverings back on, 
tie everything back down to prevent getting it wet.  Snow loads would melt between
the trusses, making HUGE chunks of ice pulling the tarp down on the sawdust, you couldn't 
push them up and off from the inside, tarps only lasting about 6 months, ripping loose in 
windy conditons or under water, snow weight above. 

All VERY frustrating problems to deal with.

We were getting ready to order a new load of sawdust, with me thinking on and on about 
HOW TO DEAL with the winter issues this year.

Then I woke up one morning and TA DAH!!  The whole plan was fully formed in my head
and I jumped out of bed to put everything into place.  I explained things to husband who was 
NOT encouraging about the idea.  He doesn't visualize well, does better with drawn out plans.
But this was so simple I didn't want to take the time for a drawing.  

We ran off the the farm store with the truck, got three cattle panels and some snaps, eye bolts
and came home.  I showed him where I needed the inside boards placed for a lip to lay the cattle
panel ends on inside the bin walls.  He got them in place, then we measured the panels in place
to locate the eye bolts and screw them in.  We took down the panels again, sawdust was delivered.
Husband piled the sawdust up as high as possible with the loader on tractor.

Then the two of us put the cattle panels back up over the bin itself.  Not even a severe bend, more
Quonset hut bend, with panel ends on the wood lip boards inside the bin.  I snapped the panels to
the eye bolts  with double ended snaps.  I figured the snaps would allow some panel movement, yet
hold them down in bad winds, so the roof would manage snow load and possible wind under tarp all right.  
We overlapped the panels one row of squares going down the bin, to add more "stiffness" to the roof 
support.  I hoped the bend was enough to make snow not collect much depth or if snow did pile on, 
it would melt and run off fast.  Snow pushing the panels down, would just make them firmer seated 
on the wood lip and outside walls holding them in place.  Add to the roof stiffness under a load.
The overlaps were clipped together with what seems to be like small carabiners to keep them in 
place.  The three panels covered about 2/3s the length of the bin.  I didn't plan to do the whole
bin in case this plan didn't work well.  The good tarp I had was only 12' wide, so I figured that 
was a good size to start with.  

We slid the tarp, 24' long, up and over the panels, anchored both narrowshort ends down with tires on the 
outside of the bin walls.  Then I tied the both of the long tarp sides around the bent panel edges, back 
under the tarp to hold it firmly in place.  No flappy edges to get ripped loose in the constant winter winds.
I had that extra tarp to fold back because the overlapped panels were not quite 12' wide.

I took a second tarp, used already, and tied it along the inside of bent long side to cover the sawdust
that didn't fit under the roof area.  It stretches out and lays flat with tires on it to keep the "spilled out" 
amount of sawdust covered and pretty dry.

So far I am VERY happy with this roof system.  Been on about 5 weeks now, stayed quiet, working well
even with severe winds of 30-50 MPH.  I have to believe that front tarp covering, helps a lot by not allowing
wind up under the bent panels, because the sawdust bin faces DIRECTLY into the prevailing local wind.  Wind
just can't get into things to start any problems.  Haven't had enough snow to talk about, maybe 4 inches once
that melted shortly afterwards.  Quite a bit of rain at times.  But everything is staying in place, sawdust is
staying pretty dry.  That used tarp is letting some seepage thru, but sawdust is merely damp enough to prevent
any dust.  Sawdust is still very absorbent as bedding, even with the bit of dampness.

Roof is very easy to work under, even with the tractor and front loader.  Tractor is not huge, but SO NICE to 
drive in and get a scoop instead of shoveling the wheelbarrow full several times!!  I just pull that laid out 
tarp to one side, out of the way over the wall, and all the sawdust is easily accessed on foot or with the tractor.

I just wanted to express my HUGE THANKS for your ideas, PHOTOS, that percolated thru my brain for a lovely, EFFECTIVE 
idea to cover my sawdust bin.   Should be short work to uncover, remove tarps and panels to allow delivery
truck in with the next load of sawdust when needed.  Then easy to put panels and tarp back in place to cover it
all again.  Not sure if I made this sound a bit of overkill, with putting on and off, but I assure you that this is MUCH
less work, for a MUCH BETTER coverage and no sagging tarp, than any of our other ideas to keep the sawdust 
dry.  A load of sawdust lasts us about 4 months, so not THAT much to deal with each time.  And with the snaps, 
untying the tarp strings on the panels, much faster, easier to manage.  It may look a bit "redneck" with my recycled
billboard printed tarp, but who cares?  Cost was pretty inexpensive for all that storage area.  Sawdust is dry, easy 
to get out, and that is the important part in daily life.

Thank you all SO MUCH!!


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## Beekissed (Jan 12, 2012)

Gotta love those cattle panels!!!    I was impressed with them when I used them for a sheep shelter...easy to put up, easy to take down, didn't move an inch in the winds, snow, rain and kept the gals dry.  The next chicken coop/hay storage/wood shed I have to build will definitely be comprised of cattle panels.


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## greybeard (Jan 12, 2012)

Sounds like progress with the help of others. I wouldn't call your application "redneck", just adaptability and innovation at it's best. 
How do those billboard 'tarps' hold up to UV light?


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## goodhors (Jan 12, 2012)

Here are some photos:





Lip inside the bin wall to rest panel end on.






Panel on the lip.  Sorry, can't seem to make picture upright.






Panels bent going down INSIDE the bin.





Tarp on over the panels, sawdust pushed up under the panels.





Tarp over the excess sawdust, covering the front spillage and roof edge to keep the wind out.  Not got the tires on to hold tarp down.


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## Beekissed (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm wondering why you didn't just keep going with the panels until they covered the front area also so you wouldn't need the extra tarping?  Or would that take too much labor to remove all that when you get a sawdust delivery?


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## ShadyAcres (Jan 12, 2012)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> Gotta love those cattle panels!!!


Cattle panels belong on the list with Duck Tape, Hay Twine and Zip Ties.  _*TOTAL *_necessities for farm life!  

And I agree with greybeard - not redneck at all.  Great job!


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## goodhors (Jan 12, 2012)

So far the billboard tarp is doing fine.  I think it is about 6 months old, purchased late July/August.
The sheer weight is a plus, doesn't seem to flap much if secured, unlike the lighter vinyl tarps.
Not sure how stiff it would be to move about in very cold weather.  I did get a couple rubs and easily
fixed the holes by gluing a piece of vinyl fabric on the underside with gorilla glue.  Flattened it with 
cardboard on both sides for leaky glue, and put weight on to hold it flat until dried.  No hole now, 
holding really well.  This is a tarp worth the time to fix, should last quite a long time if frays can 
be so easily repaired.

No cracking or anything from sunshine.  Each tarp is different, they are USED when you get them, 
so may have various "thin but not a hole" issues.  They had repaired a spot on mine with vinyl before
purchase, probably was heat sealed which I couldn't do.  Surface when I got it was entire, no holes or 
splits.  It is made of pieces, heat sealed together.  12'x24' with folded over edges.  So we tried the vinyl 
patch too, with gorilla glue and weight pressure, worked just fine.

If I raised the panels a bit, I would use my tarp better.  It is too long for this low height.  Originally 
purchased this size because we ran it lengthwise of the bin, and it covered everything well, acted as an 
unsupported roof over the bin.

Mine did not come with grommets, had slits along the edge for ropes to tie it down or you could run  
pipe thru the folded edges, tie the pipe down to anchors thru the slits.  I was not set up to do pipe then, 
so I installed grommets from our hardware store.  Wasn't hard though it took a bit of time to do all four sides.
I like lots of grommet holes to be able to tie tarp down wherever I needed it.  Needed them with the no-support
method of before.  The grommet install was done before the cattle panel idea had "come to me" as the 
great idea.  Probably wouldn't need nearly the amount of grommets now, that I had put on!  Check prices 
if you buy grommets.  JoAnn Fabric is ASTRONOMICAL in cost, while local Hardware store was much more 
reasonable for quantity.  I had the setting tool already.

I only made the redneck comment because my billboard advertising looks like the old signs folks tacked 
on their barns for repairing holes in the wall!  At least that was pretty common when I was a kid, so we
always made jokes about what the signs said.  I sure hope no one stops to see what I have for sale at 
10% off!!  As shown, mine is mostly white on the front and dark brown inside.  I figured the white was UV
protected, so I should leave it as the outside in the sun.  Not sure when Google Earth updates the photos 
of your property, but I have checked to see if the sign shows yet in the satellite view!!

I consider the price of about $55 to be only slightly more cost than the lighter weight tarps from the farm store. 
Heavier vinyl will be lasting much longer, is FIXABLE, makes it a good value.  Those light ones flap no matter 
WHAT you do, rip themselves apart.  This one does NOT flap in even severe winds.  I think the package weight 
was about 25 pounds, and in the LITTLEST box you would imagine.  Not sure how it was folded, but my hat is off to 
them for compressing it so small!!


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## greybeard (Jan 12, 2012)

I always wondered why people had signs on their barn --I just figured the companies paid them for ad space, now find they were to cover holes. Learn sumpthin new every day.


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## goodhors (Jan 12, 2012)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> I'm wondering why you didn't just keep going with the panels until they covered the front area also so you wouldn't need the extra tarping?  Or would that take too much labor to remove all that when you get a sawdust delivery?


As I said, when we tackled this husband was not encouraging about the idea.  Couldn't picture what I was telling him well.  We only wanted to do a minimal amount to see how the idea would work over winter, and 3 panels for about half the distance, is what my tarp would fit without needing to buy another one.  We just wanted to see if the basics would work for this job.  I had confidence after your information, but he never encountered such a setup before.  

I am pretty sure that in the spring we will add more panels and cover the rest of the bin area.  We have talked about making panels higher for the roof.  Maybe overlap two panels, to use up length of tarp we have, get the tractor in easier.  Just undecided, because two panels, overlapping end-to-end, way high, would be harder to deal with to anchor down.  Load we have in the bin should last until about April.  We can think on it, then have better weather to do things in whatever we choose.  May buy one large tarp to cover the whole bin, instead of layering two smaller ones with double anchoring them down.

I am kind of leery about not having the hanging tarp, to block the wind.  I see the wind coming in and LIFTING the whole thing off the bin!!  Better to block it and prevent a problem.

Height of truck box unloading the sawdust is 25ft, taller than the barn!!  Can't leave the top on the bin to unload, even with a taller panel roof.  All the pieces have to be cleared away.  With snow still to come, we need to see if the curve we have is enough, flattened a bit under snow.  Possibly a taller roof might reduce load bearing ability under deeper snow, just fold over and flatten inside out.  Have to watch and learn.  What we have now is a vast improvement, but you can always tweak a bit for making it things better.  Just have to take time for the ideas to come to you! Often I feed ideas to husband and he mulls them over for some interesting, workable solutions.  Nothing I would have come up with!  My brain works on these things while I am actively doing other stuff.  Ideas then pop out, fully formed, when least expected!!


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## Beekissed (Jan 12, 2012)

I know exactly what you mean!!!  I and my mother have encountered that "lack of vision" in our male family members...they just can't seem to visualize the project, even if I draw it for them.  Finally, we just get out and do it and then the light starts to dawn...you can almost see the "ah-ha" moment.   

How often do you get a refill in this bin?


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## goodhors (Jan 12, 2012)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> How often do you get a refill in this bin?


About every 4 months.  The truck holds 40 yards.

Bedding can go faster or slower, depending on how many animals are on the place.  We used sawdust under the 2 
calves and lambs when we have them, with their stalls cleaned daily.  

Horses can number between 5-6 or 7, with one off to the Trainer for "weaning and training" right now.  Being raised
together, they do get VERY attached to each other.  Sending  them off to a strange place, getting them 
acclimated to the MANY weird things happening at the training stable, gives them good basics for life long use.  
They WILL NOT die if they are alone in a new location.  The world won't end if they meet new horses, have to 
follow a DAILY training regime with STRANGERS!!  They CAN meet donkey and minis who won't eat them.  Life 
is very busy there, unlike home.  Horse learns to be accepting, using their brains in situations they meet, odd though 
it can be.  Have to have that "OK Mom" in our Driving horses, to make them suitable for our needs.  It would take 
us years to present all those new things to a young horse.  They come home with a new attitude, easily transition 
to working for us while learning even more new things, in a calm, accepting way.  

Horses are stabled half a day here, days in summer, nights in winter.  All stalls are cleaned daily.  We do save bedding 
with having mostly tie stalls.  Very economical with the bedding, even though there is plenty of  room and depth for laying 
down comfortably if they wish.  Tie stalls just use way less bedding than box stalls.  The 2 box stalls also get cleaned daily, 
hold the 2 old girls or a very young foal/horse when we have one.

The bedding gets spread on our fields.  Bedding is a key factor in having healthy grass crops, good turf depth for the horses to run
on without tearing it up.  Our horses are grazed and stay fat, working hard, on just the grass.  Very little grain is fed
and almost no hay over the warmer weather, unless we leave home for an activity.  Grass production is very good, with 
grazing usually running from May to late Oct.  These are large horses in work, rotated on about 12 acres in various paddocks and 
fields.  

With the bedding spread, the grass stays green and growing, even during the summer drought times and summer
heat.  Bedding adds organic matter to the soil and acts like mulch in covering the soil, protecting the grass plants roots
from sun burn, drying the soil and heavy water runoff.   I figure we get double use from the bedding for a long time
before it finally breaks all the way down.


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