# Help solve the Great Katahdin Mystery of 2019



## shepherdO (Mar 16, 2019)

Here's the lowdown:

The suspect: Nibbles, a older-ish (specific, I know) katahdin ewe, who's had multiples in the past, including quads last year, only one of which survived due to crazy tangling and mal-presentations.  I can't remember if she was late or early, but I THINK she was a day late last year.

She was due on Tuesday, and went into labour on Monday.  Typical proceedings - pawing, lying down, curling lip, pushing up on front legs, etc.  However, lacking any sort of fluids either discharge, mucus or waters, and her vulva was shrunken and neither puffy or lengthened.

This went on for almost 2 days, on and off, bu never really progressed to full on stage 2 labour.  No babies born.  Then she 'turned off' for the next couple days.

Last evening, Friday, she seemed to 'turn on' again.  I finally saw some discharge/mucus, and she was acting restless, etc., breathing hard, concentrating and uncomfortable, but no real pushing contractions.  I checked twice during the night, but nothing serious.

This morning vulva was finally lengthened a bit, not puffy around it at all, but I decided to go in - she's a small gal, probably 80 lbs or something like that, but I was able to get in 4 fingers and thumb up to about the end of my hand.  I didn't push any further than that.  I was feeling pelvis, so I presume I was past the cervix?  It's all very open, birth canal and cervix, as far as I can tell (no expert).  

I felt nothing at first, then something I thought might be a tail - however, it was not attached to anything hard, so I think it might have been a cord...?  Without going in any further I'm not sure what the exact situation is - there was definitely no lamb presented, but I have seen and felt them kick in the past, and I THINK I felt them in the last day or two, not sure.  I wonder if maybe it was the cord for a sac blocking the cervix?  Can sheep get placenta previa?

So, what's the verdict?  I will go in deeper in about an hour I think.  Soon after I examined her she was lying down and contracting harder, no pushing yet, but still kind of standing up on her front legs once in a while.  She's now 4 days over.

Now she's up and eating again.  I was expecting to go in and find some rotten lambs and/or a terrible smell.  But I found neither - completely odourless.  With rotting/rotten lambs, does the smell only come with the dead lambs themselves, or should the entire 'experience' stink?

Has anybody had experience with intermittent labour spread over (eg) 3-4 days?  She was due the same time as my 12 month old suffolk first-timer who is definitely ready at the back end, but also hasn't laboured to delivery yet.  The fact that they're both 4 days over their shared due date relieves me a bit...

Anyhoo, any thoughts, tips, suggestions?  I'm not sure how hard to push when I do an internal, as she's obviously uncomfortable and has a tiny pelvis, etc., but she seems very loose inside...

Thanks!  Hopefully we have an answer today but I'm curious as to others' thoughts.
ShepherdO


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## Southern by choice (Mar 16, 2019)

First- I am a goatie, not a sheeple. So...... although they are similar it may not be quite the same.
Long labors are generally a sign of deficiency. Selenium deficiency is a major factor. In goats fescue toxicity and fescue grasses can cause long labors, thickened placentas and cords as well as retained placenta.  
If she was standing up as in elevating herself this is generally done for positioning. As dairy goat breeders we always have cinder blocks or a bench or something to help them when they are trying to reposition.
Slow dilation can be a calcium issue.
Goats have a 10 day window with kidding , not sure about lambs... but maybe the first days were just prepping and not true labor.


shepherdO said:


> Soon after I examined her she was lying down and contracting harder, no pushing yet, but still kind of standing up on her front legs once in a while. She's now 4 days over.


How often is she pushing? Are they full on pushes or a slight push?


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## Mike CHS (Mar 17, 2019)

I have only helped during delivery so I'm no help there but our vet told us to not force a hand in unless we were 100% positive there is a reason to.  Since your other hasn't delivered yet and you believe they are due about the same time, I personally wouldn't do it yet.


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## shepherdO (Mar 17, 2019)

Well, the mystery has been solved.  Last night Patty the yearling delivered a huge 12 lb eweling after about 2hours later total, but after examining Nibbles and not being able to identify anything inside, I went to sleep and said 'to heck with it all!'

I skipped my 3AM check, and arrived at 6:30 to find quads up and walking around!  Nibbles is being great trying to look after them all - I'll post pics shortly, but they are beautiful little lambs colouring-wise!

2 rams (one 'big'(ger) white, one brown) and 2 ewes, also one of each colour, but TINY!

Syringed about 70ml of colostrum into the two smallest, as well as some into the others (glad I milked out my other ewes!) and I'm about to start bottle-supplementing colostrum in a second or two.

I'm not sure how to tackle this, but I think I'll leave all 4 with her and supplement a couple times per day, as she's super skinny and won't be able to feed them, despite her huge udder (which actually doesn't seem to be producing much milk...)

Anyhoo, super stoked she had 4 without assistance - now to keep them all alive!


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## shepherdO (Mar 17, 2019)

Lambs are bouncing around and super healthy and vigorous.  Mum is pretty zombie-like. She hasn't been eating much in the last couple days due to the intermittent labour, so I'm pretty sure she's low on energy...  Have to look into that.  Is twin-lamb disease only pre-labour, or also post-labour?  Time to go google...


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## Southern by choice (Mar 17, 2019)

She may have had issues with pregnancy toxemia. It not eating look at ketosis, milk fever.
Many things similar with sheep and goats.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 17, 2019)

She will take care of them if you make sure she has the nutrition to do so.  Congratulations


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## B&B Happy goats (Mar 17, 2019)

Congradulations ,


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## Baymule (Mar 17, 2019)

Hope your ewe is ok, she did a good job of giving birth. Now you have to take care of her and meet her needs.


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## shepherdO (Mar 17, 2019)

I'm thinking of dosing her with 60ml of propylene glycol as a preventative measure for ketosis.  She seems so lethargic and worn out... thoughts?  I read on one site to do this (2 ounces) 3-4 times per day.  I hope that if it is twin lamb/ketosis I've caught it early enough.  She's certainly getting drained by these little buggers...


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## Don & Sandy (Jun 6, 2019)

shepherdO said:


> Well, the mystery has been solved.  Last night Patty the yearling delivered a huge 12 lb eweling after about 2hours later total, but after examining Nibbles and not being able to identify anything inside, I went to sleep and said 'to heck with it all!'
> 
> I skipped my 3AM check, and arrived at 6:30 to find quads up and walking around!  Nibbles is being great trying to look after them all - I'll post pics shortly, but they are beautiful little lambs colouring-wise!
> 
> ...



Congratulations!  We had 7 sets of twins this year and had to bottle feed supplement two of them.  I can’t imagine how small four are.


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## animalmom (Jun 7, 2019)

How are the quads and mom doing?


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## mrs.mystang89 (Jun 20, 2019)

What an awesome surprise!  I'd be worn out too 

How is everyone doing now??


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## shepherdO (Jul 16, 2019)

Sold one as a week old bottle bay, sold two when weaned as pets, and am keeping one wether for my new ram as a companion.  Sold mama as a retiree to a nice old lady


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## Mike CHS (Jul 16, 2019)

Congratulations on working things out.


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