# Herbal Treatment of Johne's



## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 29, 2010)

I haven't tested yet. (still testing ASAP though through WADDL) But I'm pretty sure that what my bucks died of is Johne's. I thought it might be good to keep a "journal" of sorts online for people who may want to know how it goes.  

But first I have a question for everyone, not just those inclined to natural treatments. Let's say my goats test positive for Johne's. I treat, retest and the tests come back negative. Would you buy from me? What about 5 years down the road, getting a negative each year? I always intend to be very honest with people concerning my goats. Even if it means that I won't sell as many, or may not be able to sell any at all. But I want to know what ya'll would do.



So entry number one in my journal December 29th 2010.

History of my goats. My goats were tested free of at least CAE and Johne's 2 years ago when the couple I bought them from bought them. They took them to their home (which hasn't seen animals other then cats and dogs for many years). A year later the couple was told that they could not keep the goats on their property because of the covenants. They decided to try keeping the goats, and just keeping them at a friends, who has a large cattle farm. That didn't work to well, the goats were neglected, so the couple decided to sell them. Enter us, complete newbies to goats. We buy them and bring them home. Bring them back into good health. Everything seems to be going fine except for the death of a very young doeling, which I now know was from a bacteria that has attacked the area. 

One evening in early November my husband goes out to feed the goats for me at about 10pm. He comes running inside and informs me that one of my bucks is dying. We bring him into a slightly warmer shop and attempt to figure out what is wrong and treat it. An experienced goat friend calls and talks me through the next hour as he dies. His only symptoms were the fact that he was too weak to stand up, he was baaing like he might be in pain, and he was very emaciated. He had been eating entirely normal 24 hours before.

A couple days ago, we came home from housesitting to feed the goats, and immediately as I peer into the goat house, I can see my other buck on the floor of the goat house. Frozen and trampled (very small goat house, and he was in the doorway) and also very emaciated. He also had been eating entirely normal 24 hours before. 

I came inside and googled "goat wasting disease". First thing that came up was Johne's, and the symptoms match.

To form my current approach to treating Johne's I read what Juliette De Bairacli Levy had to say in her book, The Complete Herbal Handbook for Farm and Stable. She says " All three (Tuberculosis, Johne's and Foot & Mouth) ailments are curable by internal cleansing with fasting and laxative diet, and abundant use of that supreme disinfectant herb, garlic; also moving to fresh pasture rich in vitality of of natural herbs and grasses. .... In Johne's: garlic and all the aromatics, such as thyme, sage, anise, and fennel."

I also gleaned a little tidbit online about minerals. Basically the website (and I forget now where it was) said to increase mineral supplementation and then retest. Deciding to cull or not based on the after results.

So far what I have done: I started adding to their grain garlic. I currently have them up to 1 clove per animal a day. I need to research more to find out how much garlic I should be giving them. So far they are eating it just fine. I started adding in rosehip powder to their grain, as it is an excellent immune system booster.

I also doubled how much kelp I give them. They were getting 1/2 oz a day, they now get 1 oz. I also started giving them a nutritional yeast supplement that is high in some of the missing minerals in the kelp.

If the tests come back positive I will get more "aggressive" with the treatment.

I'll keep reading and researching more, and I'll update as I test and then retest.


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## KellyHM (Dec 29, 2010)

So, someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Johne's is not a curable disease?


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 29, 2010)

That is what modern medicine says. I'm hoping that it can be cured herbally. According to Juliette it can be.


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## freemotion (Dec 29, 2010)

But will the goat be a carrier?

The treatment you list is the same as for worms....garlic, aromatic herbs, more minerals.....I have not read that book, but it makes me wonder if the author actually treated diagnosed Johnes?  Just thinking out loud.  I am supportive of herbal medicine, so don't take this as a flame or anything, please.


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## Our7Wonders (Dec 29, 2010)

A thought on we use for our family as natural medicines:

Garlic is HUGE in our home, second only to oregano oil.  I think I remember you posting that you purchase from Azure.  We buy the less expensive brand that Azure carries and it's AWESOME stuff!  Usually $20/bottle, on sale occasionally for $17.00. (I think it's called oregoil)  I have seven children - germs love kids, kids love germs.  We used to get sick quite freqently - enter oregano oil.  I haven't been sick for 2 years.  I started to feel a bit under the weather after my holiday sweet binge, scratchy throat, swollen and tender lymph nodes - oregano oil, lots of vitamin C,  Vit D3 and some extra rest - gone.  I know this isn't about people and the various minor illnesses we get, but did want to let you know that there have been some extraordinary claims made about oregano oil - there's a book called "The Cure is in the Cupboard" that's all about oregano oil - good info and Azure carries it too if you can't find it through a library.  Anyway, might be worth seeing if it could be beneficial for your goats - orgegano is an aromatic.

Olive leaf extract - also a great antibacterial/antimicrobial.  I've only used the extract - I have literature that claims it has been able to cure all sorts of diseases - even herpes virus and aids virus - interesting.  I've used it for our family during flu season and have been pretty impressed with it.  We haven't had a major illness that has needed a cure, so I can't swear by it's results, but certainly worth looking into.

Another thought is silver, if you're not opposed to it.  I don't use it much as a preventative (except the salve - that's great stuff on rashes/wounds) but if we are sick we alternate it with oregano oil.

We also use Grapefruit Seed Extract - I don't know if that's ok for goats though, but another one to consider.  

Vitamin D3 supplementation is amazing for the immune system - in the summer months our body can make it from the sun, but not in the winter.  I used to live in Fairbanks - I can remember how short the days were - no sunshine availabe for D3 - perhaps that may be one to consider as well.

Aloe juice is healing to the intestianl lining - and so is glutamine.  I don't know if glutamine is ok for goats but I know aloe is good for them.  That reminds me, I have a seminar on VHS that was filmed at Azure farms.  One of the presenters runs Crystal Creek Naturals - they have a website - and they staff holistic vets and answer questions and do consults.  I know on the seminar they were BIG on recommending aloe - but anyway perhaps a phone call to them might prove beneficial - couldn't hurt anyway.

Perhaps some good immune system supporters as well such as echinacea, vitamin C (good for goats I've heard), elderberry, yarrow - there's many others too.

There's not likely a whole lot of info out there on natural cures for goats, but perhaps researching from a "people" perspective and then tailor it for you herd.  

Wishing you success with your efforts - please do journal it here, I for one, am anxious to see the results.

Blessings!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 29, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> But will the goat be a carrier?
> 
> The treatment you list is the same as for worms....garlic, aromatic herbs, more minerals.....I have not read that book, but it makes me wonder if the author actually treated diagnosed Johnes?  Just thinking out loud.  I am supportive of herbal medicine, so don't take this as a flame or anything, please.


Freemotion- That's one of my concerns, it's something I just don't know at this point. From my understanding though it's caused by a bacteria. I know bacteria can be treated successfully with herbs. The goats will for sure always carry antibodies to Johne's, but if the bacteria is eradicated, and I believe it can be, then they should not be carriers.  In the past vets have tried treating Johne's with antibiotics, but they were unsuccessful, as many antibiotics are. there is a lot wrong with our man made antibiotics today, that is not wrong with herbs. I at least intend to try. If they don't ever test negative then they will be culled.

Our7Wonders- Thanks for all that info! I hadn't thought of many of those even though we use them for ourselves. And I agree Oregano Oil is wonderful!


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## Our7Wonders (Dec 29, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> But will the goat be a carrier?
> 
> The treatment you list is the same as for worms....garlic, aromatic herbs, more minerals.....I have not read that book, but it makes me wonder if the author actually treated diagnosed Johnes?  Just thinking out loud.  I am supportive of herbal medicine, so don't take this as a flame or anything, please.


If the tests eventually come back negative, though, they would no longer be carriers, right?  A goat can be a carrier, but not have any symptoms - but if they are negative, they wouldn't be carriers any longer.

Conventional medicine/wisdom says it can't be cured - however I believe there are many illnesses that can be cured that conventional medicine says cannot - let's hope Johnes is one of them.

And, there's likely nothing to lose by trying, right?  If your bucks have died from Johnes aren't the rest of the herd likely infected as well? - I think I read it's pretty contagious, though admittedly, I haven't looked into it at all.  If your only option is to cull or try to treat - I say definately try to treat.  It goes without saying that you won't want to introduce any new animals to your property in the mean time.  I say it's definately worth a shot!!!


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## jodief100 (Dec 29, 2010)

There are laws that vary from state to state regarding the sale and transportation of animals that have Johnes.  It may be illegal in your state to knowingly sell them for anything other than slaughter. If you choose to attempt to treat you will need to keep very good records and have proof that they are free of Johnes.  I suspect that even negative test results may not be enough to protect you from liability since there is no proven cure.  

I really hope for your sake it is something else.


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## Beekissed (Dec 29, 2010)

I'd get a vet's confirmation on the Johne's diagnosis first. 

From everything I've read, it may be possible to boost an animal's immune system so that a goat that is infected with the organism can effectively control it from taking over the bowel flora.  Also, culturing the bowels with good flora might also help.  

Free's fermented foods feeding style, unpastuerized ACV, even giving buttermilk may help the bowels.  The ACV and garlic may indeed boost the immune system enough to keep MAC from becoming opportunistic and attacking the bowel lining.  Stop feeding corn and formulated goat feeds.  

Recently I did a search on natural treatment for nasal bots and couldn't find any...instead all I found was that Ivermectin was the most preferred treatment.  I used a strong drench of garlic and UP-ACV, cleaned out the nasal passages and applied Vicks to the mucosa.  

The symptoms were gone the next day and have not returned.  These were symptoms that had been present for two months.

There are amazing things that can be done with simple cures...nothing can be harmed by trying in your case.  I say go for it and document your progress.  Let us know!


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## Our7Wonders (Dec 30, 2010)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> Free's fermented foods feeding style, unpastuerized ACV, even giving buttermilk may help the bowels.


In our home we soak our grains in buttermilk overnight to improve nutrition and digestibility - perhaps would help your goaties.  Also, if goats can eat cabbage, can they eat saurkraut?  A natural unpasteurized saurkraut might be beneficial - it's highly recommended for people with gut issues (chrones, diverticulitis, candida) and/or perhaps any other fermented veggies.  I've been adding ACV to my goats morning water - they seem to really like it, it's raw and full of good stuff.  Coconut oil is also recommended for people with gut issues - I bet the goats would love a little of that for an extra fat boost - it's antimicrobial as well.  

Keep us posted!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 30, 2010)

I already sprout their grain which currently is only barley in either raw acv or kombucha vinegar. I give them 1 tbs of either raw ACV or kombucha vinegar every day.

I'm definitely testing them before I do anything drastic, but giving them garlic and extra kelp certainly wont hurt anything.


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## cowgirlnit4christ (Feb 8, 2014)

I know this is an old post, but any updates??? I have a Johnes doe, all the others in my herd are wethers for slaughter but if a cure is possible, or even a short relapse of symptoms, I would LOVE to know!!!!!!!


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 17, 2014)

Johnes can't be cured, maybe managed but not cured.  An infected herd near us was recently put down.  Not something you want spreading.  They are still studying if Johnes may be related to human Crohn's disease.


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## Alibo (Jul 10, 2017)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2565950/

Published in 2008 but I have not come across the article on this site before


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## Jdsmichel (Feb 12, 2022)

AlaskanShepherdess said:


> I haven't tested yet. (still testing ASAP though through WADDL) But I'm pretty sure that what my bucks died of is Johne's. I thought it might be good to keep a "journal" of sorts online for people who may want to know how it goes.
> 
> But first I have a question for everyone, not just those inclined to natural treatments. Let's say my goats test positive for Johne's. I treat, retest and the tests come back negative. Would you buy from me? What about 5 years down the road, getting a negative each year? I always intend to be very honest with people concerning my goats. Even if it means that I won't sell as many, or may not be able to sell any at all. But I want to know what ya'll would do.
> 
> ...


Please can we correspond. I have a herd of registered rare goats. I tested and almost from one farm tested positive for CAE. One with Johnes. I am a lifetime believer in alternative healing and prevention.  I mourned a cried and decided to aggressively fight these monsters. I just ordered from Molly's Herbals a woman who has an arthritis combo I'm going to try. She had an article about fighting CAE. My poor, sweet Bridget last year woke up blind and down. I did treat with the usual, LA200 and B complex and eye treatments.  I believe she had a miscarriage as well. She keeps keeping on and I just can't cull her. I hope to be informed of all updated information.  Please help. DIANA


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## Jdsmichel (Feb 12, 2022)

T


Alibo said:


> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2565950/
> 
> Published in 2008 but I have not come across the article on this site before


Hank you! I have oregano oil caps at home and will see how to get Cinnamon oil. I need to study this article when I'm not at work....Thanks!  Diana


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