# A Geep?..yes a Goat-Sheep Hybrid



## L J

HI All, 
I introduced myself yesterday in the welcome thread and mentioned that I ended up on your site bc of the baby Geep I have. To give some back ground on me, I grew up raising horses pigs and cows- but never sheep or goats.  In researching any information I can to successfully raise the little Geep, I found your message board. 

So how did I end up with a Geep? The short version is this, I was visiting family during Christmas. I stayed at an inlaws family members home and helped take care of their barnyard animals (the owner was out of state). One morning we went out to feed and found 2 little babies near the only sheep in the pasture. (Their goats were all inside, a female sheep and billy goat were alone in adjoining pasture).  The momma sheep showed no interest in the babies and due to the cold weather, them being premature and barely breathing, we intervened.  The female did not make it more than an hour- she was maybe 2 lbs.  The male is who survived and the owners had no interest in bottle feeding a weakling. Told me to take him if I wanted to try and save him. And here I am a month later...(btw, the owners seemed confused that their sheep was even pregnant). 
Here are some pics of Sammy..His coat does look more goat like but its all super curly wool underneath, especially around his neck.  He was about 5 lbs at birth and is now 13 lbs at day 33.      


2 days old in this pic 




3-4 days old


Here is the female who did not survive. 

as you can see, she has more of a goat face, and wool on her body. 



Pic of Momma Sheep



Pic of BillyGoat dad


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## L J

I have no idea the breed of either the dad goat or mom sheep. I have been in contact with UC Davis Vet school and trying to coordinate getting blood draws and sending to the school for genetics testing. 

Also, while i do have the acreage and barn to house Sammy, I need to get some pasture mates for him. Not sure if sheep or goats would be best, or what breed of either to get. So any suggestions in that area would be greatly appreciated. 

The other topic I'd be interested in feeback is food. Right now he is on lamb formula. I have read up on the copper issue w/ Sheep, so erring on the side of caution with food. He has access to grass hay right now, and an iodized salt block- he sometimes nibbles on one or the other.


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## OneFineAcre

There was a story of a geep born in England last year.

I put the link to the item on the forum somewhere.


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## SheepGirl

You sure his momma wasn't with a ram five months prior to being penned with the goat? It sounds like you don't own them, so therefore, anything's possible. His momma is a hair sheep (looks Katahdin), which would explain the hair coat on the ram and the hairs interspersed on the ewe with the wooly coat. It will be interesting to hear the results from the genetic testing.


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## luvmypets




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## L J

SheepGirl said:


> You sure his momma wasn't with a ram five months prior to being penned with the goat? It sounds like you don't own them, so therefore, anything's possible. His momma is a hair sheep (looks Katahdin), which would explain the hair coat on the ram and the hairs interspersed on the ewe with the wooly coat. It will be interesting to hear the results from the genetic testing.


Hey being totally honest, yeah- Who knows what was going on 5 months prior. Which is exactly why I want to get the testing done.  I'm totally new to the sheep and goat world, so if it turns out we are wrong, hey it is what it is. Until then,  Here is what I know. 

My Sister in law is Ukrainian, her mom speaks Russian only- and I haven't known them long or very well.  I know she is what would be considered an old school type farmer.  She has a pretty decent set up w about 10 goats (who were in a barn, 1 baby about a week old and 2 more prego). In her pasture outside, she had the sheep and the billy goat. ( w a 3 sided roofed enclosure)  I was there when she was out of country, so a lot of what she said was relayed via translation. 
I got the jist that she didn't seem to realize the sheep was pregnant. and kept yelling at my sister in law about us letting her goats out (bc she thought those were the only animals prego)/ When we finally were able to explain it was her sheep that had the babies, and wanted nothing to do with them., she said she didnt' have time for a weakling or to bottle feed- and if I wanted to try and save its life- go for it. 
   My vet, who has nearly 30 years livestock vet experience, seemed to take one look at him and have no problem saying he was a hybrid.  
I can only go on what I know at this point. I have to assume he is a hybrid. Doing every thing I can to make sure he grows healthy. 
So any help on this board is greatly appreciated. Especially someone who has experience with both sheep and goats- 
Thanks again everyone


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## Sweetened

From what i have read (because the thought has crossed my mind to try for a geep, admittedly), if he is indeed a geep, it would be strongly advised to band him EARLY. Not because you dont want him to breed, but because buckrams (?) Are notoriously insatiable and become a bother trying to breed ANYTHING and everything constantly.

If this is indeed a geep, which it may not be considering the curly coat is not anything you would expect from a katahdin mother or a goat, you have a beautiful little bugger to have as a pet! Chimeras interest me from a nature and evolution perspective.  Id be willong to bet she was exposed to either a wool or dorper ram 5 months ago, based on that curly hair alone. Buck looks to be boer x.

Either way, welcome to the forum and congratulations on your lovely addition. Hope to hear more from you!


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## L J

Any one have advice on whether I should get another sheep or goats as his pasture mates? Lets say it turns out he is just a sheep, he would be ok with couple goats yes?


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## norseofcourse

I will preface this by saying I am biased toward sheep  

Whether he turns out to be a geep or not, he's cute!  As to what to get for companions for him, what are your goals for your sheep/goats?  Do you want wool, meat or milk?  Will you have them on pasture or brushy areas?  How good are (or will be) your fences?

Personally, I'd get sheep


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## L J

norseofcourse said:


> I will preface this by saying I am biased toward sheep
> 
> Whether he turns out to be a geep or not, he's cute!  As to what to get for companions for him, what are your goals for your sheep/goats?  Do you want wool, meat or milk?  Will you have them on pasture or brushy areas?  How good are (or will be) your fences?
> 
> Personally, I'd get sheep


Thanks! I love that face of his!  Since this was an unexpected addition, they would really just be pets. (I'd like to just get 1-2 more) I've searched around rescue sites, as I have some good connections in that arena. It's sad how many goats and sheep are neglected or abandoned.(which gives concern for transmitting disease) I do have good friends who can help me with the shearing, so that won't be an issue.  From what I've been reading, sounds like males are ok to be around each other?  
I have 5 acres, but its currently fenced for horses/cows. I have about a 4-6 weeks that I can keep him in the house.  I plan on fencing about a 1/2 acre first and connect that to the small barn I have.  I've been reading a lot on the fencing, so I have a good idea of how that needs to be.  
I'm concerned though about the plants around here. I just bought this place last fall, and it was a repo- so the pasture was basically left to rot. Its rocky, so I can't just til it up.  I am not sure what the frozen/snowed over plant life is out there. some of it may be sage brush ( I live in Northeastern Washington state) I've read a lot on what plants can kill goat or sheep. Thinking maybe I need to figure a way to dry lot and just feed grass hay til I can fix up and actual pasture next spring.  Suggestions? I'm open to any and all feedback. 
and thanks again every one for being so  helpful!


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## L J

Here are a couple updated pics, over the last 2 days. He is now 35 days old.
He fell asleep in the 1st pic.


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## norseofcourse

L J said:


> Since this was an unexpected addition, they would really just be pets. (I'd like to just get 1-2 more) I've searched around rescue sites, as I have some good connections in that arena. It's sad how many goats and sheep are neglected or abandoned.(which gives concern for transmitting disease) I do have good friends who can help me with the shearing, so that won't be an issue.  From what I've been reading, sounds like males are ok to be around each other?



Pets are fun (and you can get some wool to play around with, or give to friends).  There are sheep breeds that shed - either hair sheep like Kathadins, or primitive wool breeds like Shetland and Icelandic, among others.  Neutered males (wethers) should be ok around each other, and I think wethers and ewes would be ok too (someone with more experience chime in please!).



L J said:


> I'm concerned though about the plants around here. I just bought this place last fall, and it was a repo- so the pasture was basically left to rot. Its rocky, so I can't just til it up.  I am not sure what the frozen/snowed over plant life is out there. some of it may be sage brush ( I live in Northeastern Washington state) I've read a lot on what plants can kill goat or sheep. Thinking maybe I need to figure a way to dry lot and just feed grass hay til I can fix up and actual pasture next spring.  Suggestions?



Some sheep love the brushy stuff too, mine do!  But of course you'd want to check what plants you have that may be harmful.  Many poisonous plants are said to taste bad, so they aren't as likely to be eaten unless there's not much else to eat - but that's not true of them all.  I am still trying to identify some of my pasture plants, and removing ones I find out can be harmful.  Or removing invasives that aren't harmful but they don't like to eat, like garlic mustard.


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## norseofcourse

Oh, and I forgot to ask, just curious - does his tail stick straight up like a goat, or hang down like a sheep?  Did you happen to notice how the twin's tail was?


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## SillyChicken

good thought on the tail norseofcourse! 
.. 
Here would be my two cents.. wait till you know what you have.   sheep and goats require different food and minerals.   goats need copper, copper kills sheep.   it would be foolish to get one and find out you have the other. 

I would also strongly recommend NOT getting it castrated until at least 6 months old so he has time to properly develop his boy bits.  Or you will be dealing with other issues that are painful if not deadly for whethers.   (I know I have one suffering from urinary stones).

He is very cute and looks very much like a hair sheep to me.


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## jooniper

Oh how interesting!! Whatever he is he's adorable. Do you have any pics of him standing?? Excited to see how he turns out


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## L J

norseofcourse said:


> Oh, and I forgot to ask, just curious - does his tail stick straight up like a goat, or hang down like a sheep?  Did you happen to notice how the twin's tail was?


His tail hangs low, although he wags it frantically when he is excited and when he eats. The vet said his tail is longer than normal. Ive also noticed its kind of crooked at the end.   The sisters tail was the same. I actually still have her, frozen in my freezer. I was hoping a vet school would be interested in studying her, but I'm not finding much interest.


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## L J

jooniper said:


> Oh how interesting!! Whatever he is he's adorable. Do you have any pics of him standing?? Excited to see how he turns out


He was about 3-4 days old in this pic. I will try and get some new ones in the next day or so.


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## luvmypets

L J said:


> He was about 3-4 days old in this pic. I will try and get some new ones in the next day or so.
> View attachment 7115


-dies of cuteness-


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## SillyChicken

So cute... it's going to be a hard one to manage... I would be really curious what his mineral requirements will be. 
I would pick sheep cause I think they are more docile with eachother than goats are.


Have you tried Michigan State University?  They are a heavy farming institution.


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## Sweetened

I would also put him with sheep.  The sheep mineral blocks have low levels of copper, and if he becomes copper deficient, you could bolus him.


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## goatgurl

what ever he is, he's a cutie.  i would wait and find out what he is before you decide what minerals, etc to give him.  he looks like my hair sheep lambs so it will be interesting to see what he turns out to be.  my dairy goat buck bred one of my ewes last fall before i got them separated.  fortunately no geeps at my house.  waiting to see what the dna tests show.


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## L J

SillyChicken said:


> So cute... it's going to be a hard one to manage... I would be really curious what his mineral requirements will be.
> I would pick sheep cause I think they are more docile with eachother than goats are.
> 
> 
> Have you tried Michigan State University?  They are a heavy farming institution.


I will give them a call thanks. I started w/ Washington State university, as its close to me and they have a vet school.  They told me to call UC Davis vet research, and they were supposed to send me docs to get started on the testing.


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## Sweetened

You could also find out if university of saskatchewan can help or accept stuff from the US


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## L J

ok so Sammy is 15.5 lbs as of today. 42 days old. We had a bit of a medical scare last night.  Has to do w bloat, pneumonia, constipation and weaning . 

Been feeding 12-16 Oz twice a day for the last week. (over feeding him?) before that it was 9 oz 3 times a day. Also,  Have battled constipation for the last week. Did a couple teaspoons of oil in his food, but also had to do 2 water enemas within a week, he was going 36-48 hours w/o pooping last 8 days. 

so last night, about an hour after he ate 16 oz, he stood up and collapsed, like bambi on ice and looked like he was going to pass out. Took him to emergency vet- Bloat. Told its caused by the milk bc his rumen is developed. Thankfully already had a appt w my regular vet this morning. Both the emergency and my regular vet suggested cutting the milk to 3-4 oz a couple times a day w a teaspoon of yogurt. Did that today, but so worried he will bloat again. He seems to have no interest in the hay. He wants to chew the **** out of his pen though!

My regular vet said he thinks Sammy needs 2-3 weeks more of milk, as we transition to the hay.

Then to top it off, looks like he aspirated some of the milk last night, got into his lungs (they did x ray, saw small amount of build up, but no weezing last night, weezing some today, a little labored breathing.) So my vet said, Pneumonia due to foreign body in the lung. he thankfully got a shot of antibiotic last night, another shot today of Excenel, and the vet gave me 2 doses to give in the next 2 days,. He goes back to vet on Friday for a check up. 

Tonight he seems in decent spirit. Not labored breathing much, and seemed pretty active for a bit. Keeps messing around w his pen (kind of chewing and just being curious). 

So...do I just stop the milk all together and let him get hungry enough to eat? any suggestions would be awesome.  thanks!


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## L J

Update- at 9pm he chilled out and slept for awhile. 10pm temp was 101.5, he was bucking in his pen a little. Seems playful and headbutting me a couple Times. Up like that for about 45 min now laying down and falling asleep like normal. 10:30pm   woke up and ever since is labored breathing, laying down but alert .  Temp Is still normal 
   I never thought raising this lil guy could get so stressful!


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## Sweetened

Are you feeding replacer? If so, switch to whole milk, raw if you can. If where you live is like here and you cant get whole or raw, pick up 3% homo, and a carton of liquid whipping cream and mix them. I add one egg yolk and a tablespoon of probiotic yogurt per 2 liter bottle.

There seems to be a point for most people that are feeding replacer where their animals bloat and die.


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## L J

Sweetened said:


> Are you feeding replacer? If so, switch to whole milk, raw if you can. If where you live is like here and you cant get whole or raw, pick up 3% homo, and a carton of liquid whipping cream and mix them. I add one egg yolk and a tablespoon of probiotic yogurt per 2 liter bottle.
> 
> There seems to be a point for most people that are feeding replacer where their animals bloat and die.


Interesting. I thought sheep aren't supposed to have cows milk? And yes- he is still on replacer. Using land O Lakes lamb formula


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## purplequeenvt

Our way too many bottle lambs last spring got a mixture of raw Jersey milk and raw goat milk. That milk was stretched as needed by the little sheep milk that we got from the bad mothers and milk replacer.

At one point we were feeding 6 lambs and 3 goat kids. Everyone thrived on it.  

We've never had bigger bottle lambs. Most of them were in our show flock and you couldn't tell they had been bottle fed. Normally bottle babies don't grow as well.


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## Sweetened

Sure theyre not supposed to, many people argue humans arent either, but replacer is dried milk product, pulp, vitamin and mineral powder, soy, beet pulp and so on, when i think about it, ill choose regular storebought cows milk!   We have just had such poor luck with replacers and supplements, i cant trust it, and its usually the first thing id pull a sick kid/lamb off of.


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## Sweetened

Also i should state i raised 3 bottle lambs on that formula above without issue.


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## SillyChicken

We raised several baby goats on whole vit D milk from day one ... never had any issues with scours or growing... we kept them on the bottle a bit longer till they learned to eat hay.    Do you have hay in with him he can nibble on?   I've heard the same thing from everyone that has used it that the replacer formulas are a problem.   I sure hope the little guy pulls through all this, you're doing a great job with him!


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## L J

SillyChicken said:


> We raised several baby goats on whole vit D milk from day one ... never had any issues with scours or growing... we kept them on the bottle a bit longer till they learned to eat hay.    Do you have hay in with him he can nibble on?   I've heard the same thing from everyone that has used it that the replacer formulas are a problem.   I sure hope the little guy pulls through all this, you're doing a great job with him!


thanks! I don't always feel I'm doing good, but I sure am trying.
Had a vet check up today, he still is labored in breathing. Got another Antibiotic shot, and one I have to give on Sunday. His temp is normal, his behavior is normal, outside of the breathing issue. It hasn't worsened, but really hasn't gotten better either. The vet is a little worried, but said if he isn't better by Monday/tuesday, he has 1 more antibiotic he wants to try. He also said Sammy might always have trouble now, bc it can permanently damage the lungs. Ahh crap.

oh and about the milk. Since he was born from a sheep, I'm feeding based on that. So that is why I'm nervous about cows milk. I feel like several people have been adament to me about sheep not getting any cows milk.  Right now he is getting 3oz of formula w a teasp of yogurt. He is somewhat eating the grass pellets (seems to like that better than the loose grass hay) and I got a mineral block he seems to love (already have a salt block)


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## luvmypets

Hope he pulls through


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## Sheepshape

My prayers for the little man.


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## Pearce Pastures

Agree with those before who are recommending whole milk.  For whatever reason, it seems to be much easier on their tummies.  If he is having digestive issues, do back down a bit on the milk.  If he scours (diarrhea), stop the milk and give only pedialyte or something similar until the problem is resolved.

I too would say to treat him as a sheep in regards to feeding.  There is no way to know what his biology demands so better to be safe.

As sweetened mentioned, I have too read that this mix in a male animal can create one voracious sex drive.  Waiting until he is 8-10 weeks before banding is standard and would give him enough time to develop.

Thanks for sharing this.  Very interesting.  He does have a curious look, with that goat coat, sheep tail, and blended facial features.  If it comes back that he isn't a Geep (but it sure sounds like he is), I would still love to see how he grows out because he is different looking.


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## L J

ok going to try the whole milk today.  He is breathing a bit smoother. Temp normal, acting pretty normal. He has timothy grass pellets and some chopped timothy grass, along w some mineral block and iodine salt block (am I over doing it?? )  He hasn't figured out how to drink free from a water dish, so bottle water - 6 oz ever few hours. Last night and this morning he got 3.5 oz of formula w a teaspoon of yogurt.  He is nibbling on the food a little, but has lost 2.5 lbs over the last week, ever since he bloated.  I guess he will just figure out that he needs to eat that grass stuff.  oh, but he only pooped a small couple pellets last night.  should I try something else to get him to eat the grass?

The vet gave him a shot of Nuflor yesterday and sent me home w a shot of it for tomorrow (thankfully I'm experienced in giving animals shots!)

Thanks for all the advice. This sure is an adventure. 


oh and a couple pics from today. he isn't one for holding a pose.


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## purplequeenvt

You shouldn't need to be giving him water in his bottle. If he's not getting the amount of fluids he needs through his milk, he'll figure out the water bucket. I've yet to have a bottle baby that didn't eventually figure out how to drink water.

When he is taking his bottle, are you holding the bottle in a way that keeps his neck stretched up? If his head and neck are too low while drinking, that can cause him to inhale some of the milk as well as sometimes causing bloat.

I wouldn't force the other feed on him. He'll figure it out when he's ready.

Sounds like you are doing a great job with him!


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## Pearce Pastures

Do you have access to a few bales of grass hay or could you get some?  The long stemmy fiber is really good for them and that, plus either loose minerals or a soft mineral block, are all he really needs at this point.  I would ditch the salt block and make sure that the mineral block is not one of those HARD ones.  x2 on nixing the water as well.


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## L J

Pearce Pastures said:


> Do you have access to a few bales of grass hay or could you get some?  The long stemmy fiber is really good for them and that, plus either loose minerals or a soft mineral block, are all he really needs at this point.  I would ditch the salt block and make sure that the mineral block is not one of those HARD ones.  x2 on nixing the water as well.



I do have loose hay, and figured out he hates it in the bowl. However, once its on the ground- he nibbles at it.  

The mineral block I have is kind of hard, if that makes sense. Its in a block, but can cut off chunks pretty easy.  

It was 60 and sunny yesterday, so I took him to the yard to play. He is doing a lot better health wise. Breathing is back to normal, more active. Loved the outside.  and, it seems that by him sniffing and poking around at the forage outside, he seems more interested in the hay inside (in his pen). 

Also doing the whole milk now and no more formula.


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## L J

purplequeenvt said:


> Y
> 
> When he is taking his bottle, are you holding the bottle in a way that keeps his neck stretched up? If his head and neck are too low while drinking, that can cause him to inhale some of the milk as well as sometimes causing bloat.
> !



yes, holding it up so his neck is stretched upwards.


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## L J

a little update. He is munching on the hay now. Will finish out this last jug of milk over the next few days and then I think he is good to go.


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## HoneyDreameMomma

Glad to hear he's doing better!  Keep us posted on the genetic testing - interesting stuff.


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## L J

Been awhile since I did an update for Sammy the Geep. 

He is just over 3 months old now. 30lbs.  He is in the house still because I'm having to re-roof the barn. He will be outside in 2 weeks.  (I take him outside every day for awhile so he is getting used to it. 
I use a water squirt bottle to curb his head butting.  The vet is urging me to castrate in a couple weeks (band now so we don't wait too long and have to do surgery). He is getting horns. Although one is bigger than the other.  We are all curious how those horns will turn out. 

The only issue is that he won't drink water from a bowl. I even put milk in the bowl and he wont touch it. I'm still bottle feeding milk (the vet wanted us to go until the end of April before attempting to wean again).  I figure once he is outside w a couple friends, he will figure out the water bowl. 

Here are a couple pics from the last couple days.


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## samssimonsays

Beautiful! I just found this thread and it is sooo interesting! I can't wait to hear back on the genetic testing! LOL.


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## Pearce Pastures

Thanks for the update.  This is just a really interesting thread overall.  He is cute!


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## goats&moregoats

waiting to find out the results. Glad he is doing well again.


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## ohiogoatgirl

I know this is older thread but very interested in update if possible. also from many years milk goats and tons of bottle babies.. put his milk/water in a fairly wide deep bucket that you can hold firmly. stick the nipple from the bottle in the liquid. "OH! the nipple! its down there!" he will try and suck it so if possible you can start by *FIRMLY* holding the nipple there and letting him suck from the nipple but get him used to eating with his head down and liquid touching his lips. and I do mean hold the nipple firmly! don't worry he will probably steal the nipple  from ya several times and try to run off still suckin away. and he may punch at the nipple with his face like he would with the bottle or moms udder so firm grasp of the bucket! splash zone and towels ready if inside for spilling.
next as he gets used to that with the feedings you hold the nipple under more and pinch it closed. he will learn to open his mouth more and suck up liquid instead of just suckin the nipple. again with the splash zone and grumpy punching at it! and don't worry too much if it takes him 2wks or so to transition.

on the bright side ya don't have to do it with 30 kid goats!


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## L J

Been awhile since I logged in, sorry!
Sammy is now 6 months old, and doing well  other than he is short lol.
I bought 3 Katahdin/Barbados cross (2 ewe and a ram lamb). They are 4-6 weeks younger than Sammy,but as of now the smallest ewe is a tad bigger than him, w the ram lamb being almost twice his size.
He doesn't have much flocking instinct. The 3 will play w each other, are typically close when browsing the pasture and cuddling up at night. And while they get along, he just seems in his own little world. Sometimes I get sad bc he seems like such a loner, and has not lost the desire to be right next to me any time I come around.  He eats well and his healthy otherwise.

Re the DNA test...this is a crazy story...my sister in laws family, who own Sammy's parents, realized a few months after giving him to me, of his mixed species and thought they could make millions. So they harassed me pretty bad and wanted him back. I refused. (And he isn't going to make me millions lol.)
Anyway, I just spoke to my sister in law last night and it sounds like her mom is coming around and will help us w he DNA. I need 20 hairs w the root from both parents and Sammy before UC Davis can do the test.

Pic, Capone, Pearl, Lucille and Sammy..


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## OneFineAcre

Why did they think they could make millions ?
If he really is a cross he wouldn't be the first
And while he's cute he is worth less than a good sheep or a goat


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## L J

Oh and we did get him to drink water out of the bowl by putting ice cubes in. He licked it like a salt block. Now he drinks like a normal sheep or goat.


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## L J

OneFineAcre said:


> Why did they think they could make millions ?
> If he really is a cross he wouldn't be the first
> And while he's cute he is worth less than a good sheep or a goat



Great question.


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## Hens and Roos

Glad to hear he is doing good!


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## Sweetened

Looking at him all grown up, id say hes juuust a sheep, but a gorgeous one at that. Keep us informed!


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## L J

Sweetened said:


> Looking at him all grown up, id say hes juuust a sheep, but a gorgeous one at that. Keep us informed!


    If I can ever get my sister in law's family to cooperate, I'd love to know for sure. 

My thing now is trying to figure out why he is so short. lol
 Maybe that's due to him being premature? The struggle we had in bottle feeding?
He is a chunk though. 

This pic, from front to back. Capone(the ram), Lucille, Sammy and Pearl (who is normally all white but super dirty right now). I took this last week. Probably the best comparison of size, especially height.  The 3 sheep are Katahdin/Barbados mixes.




This is my lil chunky monkey yesterday


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## samssimonsays

Did you ever get the results in on if he is a Geep? How are they doing? I am sure I am not the only one who would love an update LOL.


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