# Hay



## Genipher (Feb 25, 2019)

After dreaming and researching and getting permission from the city (not to mention paying their fees), I'm finally at the point where I can get goats! 

I'm looking at possibly getting 2  Lamancha-Nigerians doelings (twins)...but I have some questions about hay:

I'm in Oregon and checking online, I can get 120# bales of Orchard/Alfalfa for $16.50 each (2nd cutting). Roughly what size would a bale this heavy be? I'm trying to figure out how many I can squeeze in our goat shed. And is that a good price? 

I've read so much over the last few years I feel like I should know this stuff but...it's getting all jumbled and I feel a bit overwhelmed. Thanks for any advice y'all can give this newbie.


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## Baymule (Feb 25, 2019)

I don't buy alfalfa, I buy round bales of Bermuda. Why don't you contact the seller and ask for dimensions


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## farmerjan (Feb 25, 2019)

Most average "sq. bales" here weigh in the neighborhood of 40-65 lbs.  It depends on the type of hay and how tight the bales are packed.  They are 2 string. We get 5-6.00 a "sq bale". So if these are about 2-3x the weight, the price sounds reasonable. 
  It sounds like you might be getting into the "3 wire" bales, or the bigger 3 string ones, which are heavier and a bit bigger.  I agree with @Baymule , call the supplier and get a dimension. I am not familiar with prices in your side of the country.  Orchard grass/ alfalfa is a decent mix.  2nd cutting should be okay, alfalfa can be stemmy.  Don't get first cutting, it has alot more stem then.  If you call the supplier, they might have some other types hay available.  Also ask if they have a hay analysis?  Protein, TDN that sort of thing.  We don't do it but when you get into "big time" hay selling, buyers want it.  Don't blame them, when you are paying good money, you want good hay.


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## Genipher (Feb 26, 2019)

Well, I texted and they called back. Firstly, their ad didn't list a location. Turns out they're almost 5 hours away. They could deliver, but they deliver by the trailer load. I can't pay $800.00 for a load of hay, much less have the space to store it.

So now I'm trying to find something LOCAL and, boy, is it hard. I'm on the coast and just checking craigslist, there doesn't seem to be anything in my area! Guess I'll keep looking...something's gotta turn up, right?


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## Genipher (Feb 26, 2019)

I called our local feed store. They sell grass hay - 50# bales - for $9.99 each.
When I asked if there was anything else around here, maybe a local farmer, they said to check out another feed store 45 minutes away. I could get 135# bales for $13.99 at this other place but when I add in the cost of gas, it's not as cheap as going with the first place.

I'm estimating that 2 small-ish goats would go through 300# of hay/month, so I'd be paying $60/month on hay. Does that sound reasonable?


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## greybeard (Feb 26, 2019)

Genipher......Hay, especially in February, is worth exactly whatever someone is willing to pay for it not a penny more or less. What is 'reasonable' in Oregon might not be 'reasonable' elsewhere or may be an absolute bargain otoh. 
The 50lb local bale that costs $10/bale is 20 cents/lb.
A 50lb grass hay bale here (usually bahia or coastal bermuda) is running more than $10/bale because all hay is in very short supply here, and what little hay is available, whether small bales or large, is being brought in from out of state. Around $14/bale last time I looked here (I don't buy square bales any more) 


Genipher said:


> When I asked if there was anything else around here, maybe a local farmer, they said to check out another feed store 45 minutes away. I could get 135# bales for $13.99 at this other place but when I add in the cost of gas, it's not as cheap as going with the first place.


You are getting almost three times as much hay by paying only $4 more per bale for the 135# bale..it breaks down to about a dime/lb.  That savings should more than cover the gas you would burn in an hour and 1/2 round trip, but the convenience of buying a smaller bale may make it a better option.


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## Genipher (Feb 26, 2019)

So the price isn't as bad as I thought, then. 
I'm thinking I'd rather pay a little extra and get the hay here in town rather than drive an hour and a half (round trip). Too bad nobody delivers. Though if I'm only getting 3-6 bales it probably wouldn't be worth their time.

I found out from the 2nd feed supply store that the reason everyone is so low on hay here is because the shipments haven't been able to come through. There's been too much snow / ice. 
and apparently we don't have many hay farmers on the part of the coast. Seems everyone gets their supply from S. Oregon.

Is hay cheaper in the summer/spring?


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## farmerjan (Feb 26, 2019)

If there is anyone local making hay, it will be cheaper in the summer when they are making it.  Especially if you can go pick it up, when they are in the field making it and they don't have to handle it.  The more often we handle the hay after the initial making, in the field... makes the price go up.
Like @greybeard  said, it is worth what people are willing to pay for it.  You need to maybe figure out what your needs will be and try to buy enough to get you through the year, at the summer prices.  If there is a drought, or flooding, or constant wet weather, it will affect the prices as you can't make it if you can't get it dry, from too much water,  and you can't make it if it doesn't grow,  from no water.
Not to be a wise guy, but people need to take things like this into account when they have animals.  I admire that you are trying to do your homework about the hay.  Plus, you moved at a less than optimal time for getting your hay.   You also need to figure out what you need to do for storage, and be able to store a years worth.  Then you have options on getting it when it is available, and you have it put back when it might be scarce. 
I would find a spot in the garage, or use one side, for hay storage if you don't have a barn.  Seriously,  hay has been in short supply here due to the constant wet conditions this past year and we are now even looking at what we have... and have had several people asking if we have some to sell.  My son and I counted up tonight just rough figures, and we have about 480-525 rolls.  We are feeding about 10 rolls a day... That's only another 45-50 days of hay and we were thinking we were in pretty good shape.  The cattle are eating hay like there is no tomorrow.  Have never seen our cattle go through hay like this.  Partly is due to the constant cold wet weather, they are burning more calories to try to stay warm.  Plus our cows with fall calves are eating alot to try to keep making milk for the baby beef calves.  
There have been areas of drought, but mostly here in this general part of the southeast, we had constant rain last year.  The hay that did get made is over mature and not the best quality and they are eating more of it to try to get the nutrition they need.  We are supplementing the weaned calves with both grain and silage and they are eating that like candy.  
Been a tough year.


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## Baymule (Feb 26, 2019)

yes it is cheaper in the spring/summer. if you can get it out of the field and store it, you can get it even cheaper. Hauling hay is a special kind of treat, got a truck? You can stack it over your head in a building like a garage (park your vehicle outside-welcome to animals). You make hay bale steps. You climb the hay bale mountain, lugging a bale either behind you (going backwards dragging it) or pushing/tossing it in front of you. I've stacked bales up in the rafters before.


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## Genipher (Feb 26, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> If there is anyone local making hay, it will be cheaper in the summer when they are making it.  Especially if you can go pick it up, when they are in the field making it and they don't have to handle it.  The more often we handle the hay after the initial making, in the field... makes the price go up.
> Like @greybeard  said, it is worth what people are willing to pay for it.  You need to maybe figure out what your needs will be and try to buy enough to get you through the year, at the summer prices.  If there is a drought, or flooding, or constant wet weather, it will affect the prices as you can't make it if you can't get it dry, from too much water,  and you can't make it if it doesn't grow,  from no water.
> Not to be a wise guy, but people need to take things like this into account when they have animals.  I admire that you are trying to do your homework about the hay.  Plus, you moved at a less than optimal time for getting your hay.   You also need to figure out what you need to do for storage, and be able to store a years worth.  Then you have options on getting it when it is available, and you have it put back when it might be scarce.
> I would find a spot in the garage, or use one side, for hay storage if you don't have a barn.  Seriously,  hay has been in short supply here due to the constant wet conditions this past year and we are now even looking at what we have... and have had several people asking if we have some to sell.  My son and I counted up tonight just rough figures, and we have about 480-525 rolls.  We are feeding about 10 rolls a day... That's only another 45-50 days of hay and we were thinking we were in pretty good shape.  The cattle are eating hay like there is no tomorrow.  Have never seen our cattle go through hay like this.  Partly is due to the constant cold wet weather, they are burning more calories to try to stay warm.  Plus our cows with fall calves are eating alot to try to keep making milk for the baby beef calves.
> ...



Yeah, it's snowed about 4 times here on the coast - very unusual! Winter seems to be more awful this year.

I have a bad habit of getting animals before having the set-up ready...I don't want to do that again! So I'm making a list of everything I need and getting everything ready before bringing home goats.

Well, we have the 10' x 20' shed for goats/hay. We don't have a garage, but we have a basement. I'm not sure how we'd get the hay INTO the basement, as the only entrance is through the house. Eventually I would like to get an extra shed for storage. I'd love to stock up as much as possible in summer so I don't have to think about it for the year.


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## Baymule (Feb 26, 2019)

Picture of the shed please. Need height dimensions too. My feverish little brain is turning it's gears......


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## Baymule (Feb 26, 2019)

Genipher said:


> I have a bad habit of getting animals before having the set-up ready...



Whattt??? What is this having the set up ready, of which you speak???


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## Genipher (Feb 26, 2019)

Baymule said:


> yes it is cheaper in the spring/summer. if you can get it out of the field and store it, you can get it even cheaper. Hauling hay is a special kind of treat, got a truck? You can stack it over your head in a building like a garage (park your vehicle outside-welcome to animals). You make hay bale steps. You climb the hay bale mountain, lugging a bale either behind you (going backwards dragging it) or pushing/tossing it in front of you. I've stacked bales up in the rafters before.



We are such city slickers! No truck.  We have a passenger van, since we have an army of offspring, and remove most of the seats when we need to load furniture or firewood. My husband says we could do the same to get hay, though I don't think it would hold as much as a truck.


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## Genipher (Feb 26, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Whattt??? What is this having the set up ready, of which you speak???


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## Baymule (Feb 26, 2019)

Genipher said:


> We are such city slickers! No truck.  We have a passenger van, since we have an army of offspring, and remove most of the seats when we need to load furniture or firewood. My husband says we could do the same to get hay, though I don't think it would hold as much as a truck.


Got a trailer hitch? Can you borrow a trailer? Have a contest to see how many square bales you can stuff in a van.  Roll windows down a little so you can pass a rope through and lash bales down on top.  I am famous for treating my vehicles badly. I had a 2003 Ford Focus wagon. I could pack 750 pounds of horse feed in it (15 bags) and could tie 4 square bales on top. People at the feed store thought I was nuts.....they were right....


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## Genipher (Feb 26, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Picture of the shed please. Need height dimensions too. My feverish little brain is turning it's gears......



Okay, but I'm warning you. It looks a bit, um, crappy. The plastic has recently been pulled off (thanks to one of our dogs) and we have plans to eventually put up siding. Those 2 big doors on the front of the picture? I'm going to remove the one on the left so the goats can come in and out as they please. Their are actually 2 rooms inside the shed.


 



This second picture is the inside, where the goats would be kept. Haven't measured the height but I think it's 10' ?



 

This is the smaller "room" in the shed. If you look at the first picture, this part would be to the left. There's a doorway that separates the two rooms. I was thinking I could use this part for hay storage (taking out the shelves) or a chicken coop (or I could get a separate coop and make this shed 100% Goat Land). We have electric in this shed, there's an electric control panel in this little room.

Also, all the floors are cement. I was thinking of putting down sand. Still researching that part, though.


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## Genipher (Feb 26, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Got a trailer hitch? Can you borrow a trailer? Have a contest to see how many square bales you can stuff in a van.  Roll windows down a little so you can pass a rope through and lash bales down on top.  I am famous for treating my vehicles badly. I had a 2003 Ford Focus wagon. I could pack 750 pounds of horse feed in it (15 bags) and could tie 4 square bales on top. People at the feed store thought I was nuts.....they were right....



We're actually planning on getting a second vehicle soon but my husband wants a gas efficient car to drive to work. Tried to talk him into a truck but it was a no-go. On the flip side, my 14-year-old is already dreaming of her first rig and wants a truck. So maybe in a couple more years we'll have one.

In the past I've gotten hay bales for rabbits (used to raise meat rabbits) and I always felt like the feed store guys were laughing at me when they loaded up the back of our van. 

I should keep an eye out for a trailer.  Our van is totally able to pull one!


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## farmerjan (Feb 26, 2019)

How many goats?  They might be better off in the "smaller side" with the window, take the shelves out, except the top one for misc equipment?  Overhead light for night time feeding/milking/kidding.   Sand would be okay for a base, but will not absorb anything.  So you will need sawdust/shavings/straw/   something absorbable.  Lime down first to help with the odors. 
Some siding for climate control, and protection to keep the particle board from falling apart from moisture... all set to go.  Not bad. 
Think you have a good start there.  
DO NOT let anyone talk you into "GOAT MATH"  you do not need to expand to side stretching proportions!!!!!  I see what everyone here does....


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## farmerjan (Feb 26, 2019)

Rent a trailer for a trip and make it count.  Don't need to lay out money for it right off the bat.  Usually can rent over the weekend....or make a full day's use of it. Pick up in the evening, use all the next day, take back early the next morning.


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## Baymule (Feb 26, 2019)

No sand. It will absorb pee and stink to Kingdom come. I would put a sealer on the concrete or it will become a stink bomb. Paint and seal all wood, inside and out. Can you get pine shavings or straw? They are absorbent and make soft bedding. Start a compost pile with it for the garden that you will plant. (can't waste that valuable stuff)

Use half for stacking hay and keeping feed. Keep feed in metal trash cans with lid to keep rats and mice out. 
You can stack a lot of hay in there, I think you will be happy with it. Put a GOOD DOOR  on it with a GOOD LATCH that those devious goats cannot get open!

Definitely build a separate chicken coop with a run, dirt floor. Do deep litter, clean out a few times a year. I just keep throwing more stuff in there, leaves, pine shavings, wood chips. fall is a great time to collect leaves, people rake their leaves and politely leave them on the curb for you to pick up. Clean it out, sprinkle lime on the bottom, toss in more litter. Pile up that rich chicken litter/poop for that garden...…. LOL 

You mentioned dogs be aware that most goat attacks are from dogs...….


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## Genipher (Feb 26, 2019)

Baymule said:


> No sand. It will absorb pee and stink to Kingdom come. I would put a sealer on the concrete or it will become a stink bomb. Paint and seal all wood, inside and out. Can you get pine shavings or straw? They are absorbent and make soft bedding. Start a compost pile with it for the garden that you will plant. (can't waste that valuable stuff)
> 
> Use half for stacking hay and keeping feed. Keep feed in metal trash cans with lid to keep rats and mice out.
> You can stack a lot of hay in there, I think you will be happy with it. Put a GOOD DOOR  on it with a GOOD LATCH that those devious goats cannot get open!
> ...




So we could get by painting and sealing the outside of the shed instead of putting up siding? Sounds like it would be less expensive to paint/seal, which would be nice! This would be a great job for my boys! I'll add that to my list of "things to do". The outside painting/sealing would have to wait until the rainy season ends but the inside could be done now. I think we have some leftover paint that the previous owners of the house left behind. It would be patchwork looking but I don't much care if it looks pretty, just want it functional...

Ah, I wondered about sand as bedding. I've read some people use it but I was thinking the pee would make a big mess. Remind me, can I do deep litter with goats, using wood shavings?

The dogs. In the past we had chickens free ranging the yard and I trained our older dog, Jezebel (she's the one in my avatar picture),  to "leave them!". We had rabbits and we trained her to leave them alone, too. Even when one of the Netherland Dwarf buns got loose in the yard (thanks kids!) and we couldn't catch her for almost a week, the dog left her alone. She is soooo submissive. Though she HAS killed gophers before....
Now, though, we have a puppy.  A BIG puppy (lab/pit mix...he's as tall as our older dog and much broader!). I've wondered how he would respond to goats. Both dogs are going to need to be trained to leave the goats alone, when we get them. I don't have the money for it yet, but one of my dreams is to create a dog run on the top tier for them. Then they'd be removed from my future goats and chickens and their poo would be in a more contained area. So many things I want/need to do...if only I had a million dollars! lol.

I was thinking there could be a goat-sized door/opening so the goats could go in and out as they please, sorta like a 3-sided barn but...is that not a good idea? I suppose when we have future does bred they'd need a more secure place to keep the kids and we'd need to be able to shut them up at night?

I'm glad to hear there's plenty of space for the hay. I had no idea how much could actually be crammed in there...everything is so new to me. I've been researching for years, off and  on. I have notebooks galore on all sorts of goaty subjects but my mind is still racing with all that needs to be done.


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## Baymule (Feb 27, 2019)

The shed will need an outer covering of some sort. It is OSB and will not stand up to weather, even painted. But you can get by for now. Check the reject or returned paint at Lowes. You can pick up some good deals.


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## Hipshot (Mar 6, 2019)

Well my two cents round  here we say goats need the roughest bale, you can put through the baler . Our farmers CO-OP has double compressed alfalfa for $19.99 a bale .It's  little bitty thing .Weighs out good though around 75 pounds. Unlike normal compressed bales it holds it's moisture better. Even baled hay loses moisture and gets lighter with age. The tighter the bale and better it is stored (in total darkness)the longer it keeps it moisture and nutrients .  And yes hay has moisture content . I don't use baled alfalfa from any cutting . It's just two shaky . You have to feed it in a manger over a solid trough . If not you lose the most valuable part of it which is the leaf.  I have tried feeding alfalfa compressed range cubes but the goats just push them out of the way .  I feed round rolls until they are gone even if they have been here for three years . What's in the middle of the roll will last that  . We won't talk about the feed bill though . I feed them good  . You have a really nice shed .Where I you I wouldn't let goats free run in it .The slab will cause wood chips or straw or shavings to hold moisture . Really any kind of bedding is going need to be kept dry . If not it will cause rot in your walls . I would build a side shed with one side open to the south if possible.  Just saying . And goat pictures when you get them.


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## greybeard (Mar 6, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Hauling hay is a special kind of treat, got a truck?


I assume you are being @ least a little facetious.
Depends I guess, how many thousands of bales ya hauled in your youth, for pennies/bale..by pennies I mean around a nickel/bale.
Hot, dusty, dirty, very dead stinky skunks and rabbits  and still live snakes hanging out the bales, loaded on to a ragged old high bed 50s something flatbed truck with the only lights working were headlights and  put up in some of the shakiest falling down barns and long abandoned houses you ever saw.
Not quite as bad tho, as the day i ended up unloading most of a full rail boxcar full of feed at a Baytown feedstore that the father of one of our highschool cheerleaders owned and in those days, most feed came in 100 lb towsacks. (dam hormones...I never spoke to that girl again)


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## Georgia Girl (Mar 7, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> Most average "sq. bales" here weigh in the neighborhood of 40-65 lbs.  It depends on the type o,f hay and how tight the bales are packed.  They are 2 string. We get 5-6.00 a "sq bale". So if these are about 2-3x the weight, the price sounds reasonable.
> It sounds like you might be getting into the "3 wire" bales, or the bigger 3 string ones, which are heavier and a bit bigger.  I agree with @Baymule , call the supplier and get a dimension. I am not familiar with prices in your side of the country.  Orchard grass/ alfalfa is a decent mix.  2nd cutting should be okay, alfalfa can be stemmy.  Don't get first cutting, it has alot more stem then.  If you call the supplier, they might have some other types hay available.  Also ask if they have a hay analysis?  Protein, TDN that sort of thing.  We don't do it but when you get into "big time" hay selling, buyers want it.  Don't blame them, when you are paying good money, you want good hay.


In our area,even though we have alot of hay farmers, they tend to not want to sell in small quanities, they don't want the bother in meeting you at the barn or loading a small quanity, i gather they feel it is a waste of their time.  I only have 4 goats and can only store about 12 bales at a time and I struggle to find hay in that small amount


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## farmerjan (Mar 7, 2019)

No offense to you as a small time "farmer".  Yes it is time consuming to only go to the barn to load 10 bales at a time.  We don't like to do it either.  Partly because the person coming to get it is often not on time and we have other/better things we need to be doing. Plus, it takes time out of our day that really is a waste for that small a quantity.  We are making about $.50 per bale, to go load it.  That's say $5.00 for a special trip;  really not worth it, especially if the farmer works another job or had alot of animals to feed, or alot of hay to load. We try very hard to get people co-ordinated to coming when we are going to be there to load someone else, or load our own trailer to make a delivery, or are feeding... but that also interupts what we are doing.   If at all possible, try to get with this farmer and get some out of the field when they are baling, so they are "already there" and not making a special trip. 
Is there any way you could get another "storage space" so that you could get say 40-50 at a time?.  A friend has one of those "garage in a box" storage "buildings" that they use.  I realize $300 ( or whatever the current price is - need to catch them on sale) is not chump change.... but once spent, and put up, it will really help you save time and money in the long run.  You could also use it to store your lawn mower, or some other stuff in part.  They also have the distinction of being "not permanent" so are not taxed like a building... and can be moved / taken down / reused somewhere else. 
Another advantage is if you could have enough storage for a years worth, you would not have to deal with hay shortages and the increased prices and lack of availability.  Ask anyone who is living in and dealing with hay shortages and terribly increased prices due to demand.  That alone would pay for the storage.


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## Hipshot (Mar 7, 2019)

Georgia Girl said:


> In our area,even though we have alot of hay farmers, they tend to not want to sell in small quanities, they don't want the bother in meeting you at the barn or loading a small quanity, i gather they feel it is a waste of their time.  I only have 4 goats and can only store about 12 bales at a time and I struggle to find hay in that small amount


 That's a shame, I guess southern hospitality is about gone  Try buying latter in the season. Figure what you will use through the winter. Buy it all at once  and try working a deal with the seller to store your hay , Use the line you would rather give them the extra money than a middle man.Or one of those 16 foot bumper hitch trailers sells pretty cheap, if you have a way to pull it and traps pretty easy . They will hold at least fifty bales if loaded right .There are lots of storage options .Truck van bodies shipping containers, a carport or portable storage buildings .Something as simple as pallets on the ground and tarps. And reality is that it's better to pay a little more and let them sore it . Wiser to spend money on structure or something more permanent.  Tarps even good ones don't last and the wind plays havoc on them .


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## Georgia Girl (Mar 7, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> No offense to you as a small time "farmer".  Yes it is time consuming to only go to the barn to load 10 bales at a time.  We don't like to do it either.  Partly because the person coming to get it is often not on time and we have other/better things we need to be doing. Plus, it takes time out of our day that really is a waste for that small a quantity.  We are making about $.50 per bale, to go load it.  That's say $5.00 for a special trip;  really not worth it, especially if the farmer works another job or had alot of animals to feed, or alot of hay to load. We try very hard to get people co-ordinated to coming when we are going to be there to load someone else, or load our own trailer to make a delivery, or are feeding... but that also interupts what we are doing.   If at all possible, try to get with this farmer and get some out of the field when they are baling, so they are "already there" and not making a special trip.
> Is there any way you could get another "storage space" so that you could get say 40-50 at a time?.  A friend has one of those "garage in a box" storage "buildings" that they use.  I realize $300 ( or whatever the current price is - need to catch them on sale) is not chump change.... but once spent, and put up, it will really help you save time and money in the long run.  You could also use it to store your lawn mower, or some other stuff in part.  They also have the distinction of being "not permanent" so are not taxed like a building... and can be moved / taken down / reused somewhere else.
> Another advantage is if you could have enough storage for a years worth, you would not have to deal with hay shortages and the increased prices and lack of availability.  Ask anyone who is living in and dealing with hay shortages and terribly increased prices due to demand.  That alone would pay for the storage.


We are older people but  always show how grateful we are,  my husband always helps load and we only ask days in advance for a convenient time to the farmer, the hay we use cannot be bought from the field, the man we buy from lives next door to his storage barn.  At present, we can only accomodate the  10-12 bales and at our age, we will never have a barn to store a years supply.  Being from the older generation and having been raised on a farm, we were brought up to be grateful to anyone that purchased from us and it was never a hardship to our family to accomodate all and to this day , I still live my life in this manner.  I do however realize that most of the farmers of today, want to sell in large quanities and see small consumers in a different light.  thanks for your comments.


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## greybeard (Mar 8, 2019)

Well, I guess it might depend on how old the hay guy is but neither I nor Farmer Jan are what one might call 'young spring chickens'. 
 (I'll be 69 in a very few months)

I have read & heard time and time again, just how little return there is on hay nowadays and also heard lots of people say they got out of haying altogether and sold their equipment simply because it was no longer worth their time, effort, cost to raise, and hassle to sell to small quantity consumers. 
It's usually the hobby horse people around here that buy it 'as needed' but they are paying out the nose for it. $12-$15/ small sq bale grass hay they could have bought for $4/bale back in June or July.
I have always bought all my hay in the summer, even if it meant I had to tarp it in my back yard or in a fenced off area.
If I had not bought mine early, I would have none, as I don't know anyone within 60 miles (one way) that has had any for sale since late December.

You might offer to pay up front at the beginning of hay season for all the hay you are going to need during the year, and offer to pay a premium, since he is storing the hay for you.


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## Baymule (Mar 8, 2019)

We use round bales for our sheep and horses. We pay $10 per bale more than the asking price because he stores it for us and brings it to us as needed. Worth it! Plus we have a great neighbor/friend relationship and help each other when we can. I have cordless power tools that he likes to borrow for those far back pasture repair jobs...…. LOL


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## farmerjan (Mar 8, 2019)

I understand the respect and am of the "old time" frame also.  I am 65, so right up there with @greybeard .  We do have a couple of people who prepay, and we do store it.  Also have a few that we have worked with for many years, that we know pretty much how much they use year to year and we "reserve" that much to make sure they get what they need BECAUSE they have been good customers over the years. 
It sounds like you are trying to accomodate the farmers time and schedule,  so I don't have any other suggestions except offer to pay for it ahead of time.  We will work with a regular customer as to time and such.  Thing is we both work other jobs, so it is even a tighter time frame for us to make things work.  If your hay guy is retired, then he might just not want to be bothered.  I can't help you there.
@greybeard is also right on the small return on hay.  With the cost of equipment constantly going up, and then dealing with the weather, you are really not making much.  One of our biggest problems it getting help to make square bales.  We have a kicker on the baler so it throws them into the wagon.  Unless we are going to unload them and put on a trailer for delivery, or stack into the barn right away, we won't leave them just kicked on the wagon as they get "out of shape" .  Then they don't stack well.  So we kick them on the wagon, and every 20 bales or so my son stops, and stacks them on the wagon.  I have ankle and knee issues and cannot ride the wagons to stack like I used to.  Besides, most of the time he is baling, I am at a farm testing cows which is my "real job".  I do most all the tedding and raking of the hay during the day,  so when he gets off work, he can go right to baling;  and I go to a farm to test cows. 
There are fewer and fewer people that are making hay in this area except for the big round bales. And there are some that make the big squares but that is mostly for people who have a smaller tractor with a front end loader so they can handle and stack several.  The demand is for the small squares, but the prices aren't there to justify all the work that goes into them; and there is not the help like there used to be to handle them.  When I was younger, you could find any number of kids that wanted to earn some money and would be happy to come help hay.  Nowadays, they don't want to get dirty, sweaty, or hot and would rather stay inside playing on an electronic device,  than to work.  The ones that want to work, have more jobs available to them than they can do.


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## Genipher (Mar 9, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> No offense to you as a small time "farmer".  Yes it is time consuming to only go to the barn to load 10 bales at a time.  We don't like to do it either.  Partly because the person coming to get it is often not on time and we have other/better things we need to be doing. Plus, it takes time out of our day that really is a waste for that small a quantity.  We are making about $.50 per bale, to go load it.  That's say $5.00 for a special trip;  really not worth it, especially if the farmer works another job or had alot of animals to feed, or alot of hay to load. We try very hard to get people co-ordinated to coming when we are going to be there to load someone else, or load our own trailer to make a delivery, or are feeding... but that also interupts what we are doing.   If at all possible, try to get with this farmer and get some out of the field when they are baling, so they are "already there" and not making a special trip.
> Is there any way you could get another "storage space" so that you could get say 40-50 at a time?.  A friend has one of those "garage in a box" storage "buildings" that they use.  I realize $300 ( or whatever the current price is - need to catch them on sale) is not chump change.... but once spent, and put up, it will really help you save time and money in the long run.  You could also use it to store your lawn mower, or some other stuff in part.  They also have the distinction of being "not permanent" so are not taxed like a building... and can be moved / taken down / reused somewhere else.
> Another advantage is if you could have enough storage for a years worth, you would not have to deal with hay shortages and the increased prices and lack of availability.  Ask anyone who is living in and dealing with hay shortages and terribly increased prices due to demand.  That alone would pay for the storage.




The garage in a box looks pretty neat but we don't have the space for it. If we didn't use our woodshed for, well, wood, we could use it for hay. I think the best option for us will be putting as much into the shed as possible. Eventually I might be able to get a second, smaller shed to store more. I'd rather have as much stored as possible rather than having to go buy hay every month or two.

sigh. Right now I'm not even sure we'll be able to get the goats I want. Seems like it went from YES! to Nope, to well, maybe... I appreciate all the advice. 
As an aside, @Hipshot ...are dirt floors better for goats? The shed was here when we bought the place and I immediately thought it'd be good for goats. I didn't realize cement could hold in stink or cause drainage problems (still learning!).


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## Baymule (Mar 9, 2019)

I have a dirt floor for my chickens, sheep and horses. I deep litter the chicken coop, just toss more leaves, spent hay or whatever I have when it gets messy. They scratch through it, poop on it and make compost.

The sheep lot is dirt. Their barn is dirt floored. I use pine shavings in the barn. We scrape it out every couple of months. When lambs are due, we scrape it down to the dirt and fluff it up with pine shavings. 

The horse barn is open, they come and go at will. We do likewise for them.

For milking goats, you would want a clean, not dusty place to milk them. But I wouldn't keep them in it all the time, just while milking.


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## Genipher (Mar 9, 2019)

Baymule said:


> I have a dirt floor for my chickens, sheep and horses. I deep litter the chicken coop, just toss more leaves, spent hay or whatever I have when it gets messy. They scratch through it, poop on it and make compost.
> 
> The sheep lot is dirt. Their barn is dirt floored. I use pine shavings in the barn. We scrape it out every couple of months. When lambs are due, we scrape it down to the dirt and fluff it up with pine shavings.
> 
> ...



I figured during the day they would wander the yard. At night, I'd shut them in. I wanted to keep the shed open during the day so they could get to their hay or get out of the rain (or do goats care about being rained on?). I still need to figure out a clean place for milking, though if I get the bottle babies I'm looking at, it'll be awhile before I need such a place. I should have time to figure that part out...


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## Baymule (Mar 9, 2019)

Your goats should always have access to their shelter. My sheep are so spoiled to their barn, when I put them in another pasture, they will go to the gate and yell at me to go back to their barn to ruminate. LOL 

I don't have goats, but it seems to be universal that goats think they will melt if they get rained on. LOL


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