# 9 month old ram butting newborns



## BoPeep75 (Feb 5, 2021)

We have just started our flock, and currently we have two ewes, (one of which has just given birth to twins), and one nine month old ram.  The twins were a boy and a girl; the boy was rejected and is being bottle-fed.

I noticed today while sitting with the flock, the bigger ram will occasionally and lightly butt into the back of the female. I don’t know if the mother didn’t notice or didn’t care. I have been thinking about separating the older ram in case he is going to hurt one of them when I’m not around, but then he will be alone. I’m not sure how big the newborns have to be where he will leave them be. I thought the mother would do something if he bumped into the girl but maybe not? I realize the little boy lamb is on his own if I’m not there. I will say that he spent yesterday with the older ram and the ewe who isn’t his mother, and he was fine when I came to put him in the stall. I cannot leave him with his mother because she has an interest in him even though he is no longer interested in her. She comes around to sniff him and then head butts him hard.

Any ideas?  Since the older ram is still technically a lamb do you think he won’t actually hurt the lambs? Should I separate him by himself?This feels like an old school riddle of who goes where.


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## Alaskan (Feb 5, 2021)

BoPeep75 said:


> Any ideas? Since the older ram is still technically a lamb do you think he won’t actually hurt the lambs? Should I separate him by himself?This feels like an old school riddle of who goes where.


Sadly, it is easy for older animals to butt newborns and end up killing them (well... talking from a goat perspective... I have never had sheep).

So yes, I would separate the 9 month old by a fence, so he can see and even smell them... but not touch them... BUT you will need more separation than that if you want to guarantee zero unscheduled breeding...

Have you tried tying up the ewe and reintroducing the lamb?


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## BoPeep75 (Feb 5, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Sadly, it is easy for older animals to butt newborns and end up killing them (well... talking from a goat perspective... I have never had sheep).
> 
> So yes, I would separate the 9 month old by a fence, so he can see and even smell them... but not touch them... BUT you will need more separation than that if you want to guarantee zero unscheduled breeding...
> 
> Have you tried tying up the ewe and reintroducing the lamb?


Yes they are four days old today, and at the end of the second day my husband and I thought we would try the headgate kind of situation, so he made one and attached it in the barn stall and it did not go well.  We tried to tie the rest of her down, and she bucked like she’d gone rabid.  Later, she wouldn’t eat or drink.  On top of that the ram lamb had zero interest in her at this point. We couldn’t persuade him nor her.  I found it odd because she had cleaned him up when he first came out but I guess she took too long with the second.  We had her in the headgate for a while but decided in the end next time we would know how better to approach it and use the headgate immediately and smear some of the other placenta on the new lamb.  I would also tie her down to get her colostrum so that she could smell it on the rejected one. Hindsight is 20/20 :-( but I think the best thing to do at this point is be glad they’re both alive and healthy and separate the older ram for now.  Thank you for your help!


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## Alaskan (Feb 5, 2021)

BoPeep75 said:


> but I think the best thing to do at this point is be glad they’re both alive and healthy and separate the older ram for now. Thank you for your help!


Yeppers!


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## Shepherdess219 (Feb 10, 2021)

I’ve been raising sheep for 14 years now and never have I been able to convince a ewe to take a lamb once she’s rejected him. If it’s a smart lamb, he’ll learn to drink behind his sibling, and then I supplement to make sure their getting enough to eat.  Some mothers seem to have a set number of lambs they will take and then reject the rest.  If she does it again next year, you should cull her or get rid of her unless you like to bottle feed.  The only thing I haven’t tried yet is the jacket trick. But I’m not hopeful. Once they set their minds to it, it’s pretty much a done deal. I have a ewe that always rejects one of her trips. So I told her if she can’t look after 3, then only have 2. So she has for the last 2 years. 

I always move my ram out just prior to lambing for several reasons. 1 because while you’re dealing with moms, you don’t need to be worried where your ram is, he can seriously hurt you when (not if) he hits you. 2nd, he’ll likely start trying to mount the girls right away after birth, must be something about the smell. Third, when your girls are that close you don’t need him butting them and being aggressive.  Even if he’s nice right now at 9 months, he won’t be when he matures.  I get a collar or halter on my guy and train him to come and be tied up so that I can do things in his area without fear of injury. 

They can get lonely and stressed when they are by themselves, even when they can see each other, and sometimes that can be worse since he can see, but not touch if they’re coming into heat, so get him a litttle friend. Wethers make excellent company and if you don’t want to feed anything big, get a goat. They get along just fine (that’s what I’ve done) and nobody gets stressed. What kind of sheep do you have? I have Dorpers and Nigerian dwarf goats. My buck and ram hang out in between seasons, and with the ram lambs.


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## BoPeep75 (Feb 10, 2021)

Shepherdess219 said:


> I’ve been raising sheep for 14 years now and never have I been able to convince a ewe to take a lamb once she’s rejected him. If it’s a smart lamb, he’ll learn to drink behind his sibling, and then I supplement to make sure their getting enough to eat.  Some mothers seem to have a set number of lambs they will take and then reject the rest.  If she does it again next year, you should cull her or get rid of her unless you like to bottle feed.  The only thing I haven’t tried yet is the jacket trick. But I’m not hopeful. Once they set their minds to it, it’s pretty much a done deal. I have a ewe that always rejects one of her trips. So I told her if she can’t look after 3, then only have 2. So she has for the last 2 years.
> 
> I always move my ram out just prior to lambing for several reasons. 1 because while you’re dealing with moms, you don’t need to be worried where your ram is, he can seriously hurt you when (not if) he hits you. 2nd, he’ll likely start trying to mount the girls right away after birth, must be something about the smell. Third, when your girls are that close you don’t need him butting them and being aggressive.  Even if he’s nice right now at 9 months, he won’t be when he matures.  I get a collar or halter on my guy and train him to come and be tied up so that I can do things in his area without fear of injury.
> 
> They can get lonely and stressed when they are by themselves, even when they can see each other, and sometimes that can be worse since he can see, but not touch if they’re coming into heat, so get him a litttle friend. Wethers make excellent company and if you don’t want to feed anything big, get a goat. They get along just fine (that’s what I’ve done) and nobody gets stressed. What kind of sheep do you have? I have Dorpers and Nigerian dwarf goats. My buck and ram hang out in between seasons, and with the ram lambs.


Very good advice I think.  We have Katahdin sheep, and I was actually thinking of getting two Nigerian dwarf goats. 

If this ewe does this again I will cull her. I’m hopeful she won’t though as she has a history of always accepting her twins in the past. I’m hoping this was just a fluke with the cold weather and me having to take him to warm him up or deal with a dead lamb.

I have been thinking about possibly keeping the bottle baby as a wether for company for my ram.  Do you typically keep your ram and ewes together except for lambing time?  I definitely have been splitting them up right now just to keep the small lambs safe, and I will do it again once lambing time comes around. The 9 month old walked right up to me today… He’s never done that before, and I thought “yep it’s time to put his bell on him” LOL.  And have an exit plan/weapon at the ready.  I’ve read some surprising and scary stories on here 😮


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## Shepherdess219 (Feb 10, 2021)

So you have prolific sheep as well. Year at a glance. Happy ram day is in early October, happy buck day is after girls are bred, typically just the two weeks. Boys and girls goats and sheep all live together all winter until about a week to 10 days before lambing. Then the ram and the buck get the boot to the adjacent field. After lambing, and once my grass is ready in the summer field, the girls move across the road to a new field. Then I pull my ram lambs off the moms at 3 months so they don’t start breeding the girls.  Mom always has at least one lamb for the summer then I don’t not have to worry about trying to dry up the ewes. Boys go to live with the ram and the buck for the summer. In September  all the lambs go to market and the moms have about 3-4 weeks before it’s happy ram day again. And we start all over again!


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## BoPeep75 (Feb 13, 2021)

Thank you for the timeline! I’ve been looking for someone to give me this kind of year at a glance. When you said that the mom’s have one lamb for the summer, were you meaning that they typically all have at least one female lamb to continue nursing through the summer?  (Since the boy lambs are moved to the other field).  I’ve never even thought about having to try and dry up ewes.  Is this an issue?  Thank you!


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## Shepherdess219 (Feb 13, 2021)

BoPeep75 said:


> Thank you for the timeline! I’ve been looking for someone to give me this kind of year at a glance. When you said that the mom’s have one lamb for the summer, were you meaning that they typically all have at least one female lamb to continue nursing through the summer?  (Since the boy lambs are moved to the other field).  I’ve never even thought about having to try and dry up ewes.  Is this an issue?  Thank you!


If mom has all boys and no girls, then I band one boy (wether one) so that she has one.


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## Shepherdess219 (Feb 13, 2021)

Oh and the reason I start so early breeding is because my market date is so early in September.  Ideally if your taking your lamb for market, they want to be around 6 to 7 months so birthing end of March/April then market around thanksgiving (Canadian thanksgiving).


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## NEWCOMER (Mar 10, 2021)

BoPeep75 said:


> We have just started our flock, and currently we have two ewes, (one of which has just given birth to twins), and one nine month old ram.  The twins were a boy and a girl; the boy was rejected and is being bottle-fed.
> 
> I noticed today while sitting with the flock, the bigger ram will occasionally and lightly butt into the back of the female. I don’t know if the mother didn’t notice or didn’t care. I have been thinking about separating the older ram in case he is going to hurt one of them when I’m not around, but then he will be alone. I’m not sure how big the newborns have to be where he will leave them be. I thought the mother would do something if he bumped into the girl but maybe not? I realize the little boy lamb is on his own if I’m not there. I will say that he spent yesterday with the older ram and the ewe who isn’t his mother, and he was fine when I came to put him in the stall. I cannot leave him with his mother because she has an interest in him even though he is no longer interested in her. She comes around to sniff him and then head butts him hard.
> 
> Any ideas?  Since the older ram is still technically a lamb do you think he won’t actually hurt the lambs? Should I separate him by himself?This feels like an old school riddle of who goes where.


Maybe you should  make a pen for the mom and her lamb. That way you can let her out when you can watch her and put her in when you can't


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