# TheFarmOfDreams- a long awaited adventure



## Thefarmofdreams (Sep 28, 2021)

Hi! I figured planning stage is an ideal time for a journal start!  So I'll answer the million questions... and then post some pics and what not.  😁 

*1. What state/province/country are you in and what is your climate like? *We're in upstate NY, The new property is 10 miles from the Blue Line! So cool forest technically.  Summers get hot, winters get cold.  
*2. How many people are in your family? Marital status? *It is myself and my husband (both in our 30s) and our boys, one currently 10 and one currently 2.  We also have 2 apartments on our new property, and my sisters is going to rent one with her hubby and 3 kids (all under 10) and my mom and her hubby are going to rent the other!  
*3. How would you define your farm? *Our goal is a permaculturey homestead that supplies more of our food needs every year!  
*4. What would you do with your spare time if you had any resources you needed? *oh gosh.  Travel? Paint? It's been so long with covid and needy little kids, such a luxury is hard to imagine!
*5. Have you ever built a house, barn , or other types of building? Do you want to?* I've built a few barn additions, and we'll be building fencing and horse sheds in just a couple weeks! And a dog house.. .and a chicken coop this winter....
*6. Can you weld? Steel, aluminum, MiG, TiG, stick, Oxy-Acet? *Not yet, but I'll learn if i need to.  
*7. Who or what inspired you to be a farmer/rancher, hobby farmer?* I grew up on a 'farm' where my grandma had horses, chickens, etc.  We raised pigs one year.  Showed in 4h.  Etc.  
*8 Is it a hobby or an occupation? *Little of both?  I'm a SAHM, and hoping to be able to put enough resources and effort into this to (1) replace some of our food bills.. and (2) maybe someday make some funds from sales.. .someday... maybe... I'd love to breed quality livestock for other farms (chickens? pigs?)
*9. In what areas are you knowledgeable and in what areas would you like to learn more? *I know a ton about horses, I did ALL the horse things as kid.  I know less about other livestock, and definitely want to know more.  I know almost nothing about gardening, but DEFINITELY will be reading up.  I'm good at baking and cooking, I have a long work history in children's behavioral health, so i know a ton about development, education, psychology, etc.  I want to learn about canning. and all the other self sufficiency tasks.  And sewing! I know basics but would love to be able to make clothes.
*10. In what types of farming will you never choose to do? *the chemically, commercialized kind.  I want as much of our farming to subsist off the resources on the farm as possible, and to contribute to the environment in a cycle that reduces our footprint (and cost!)
*11. Are you interested in providing more of your own food supply? *Very!!!
*12. Where do you end up when you sink into yourself, away from the outside world? *At a computer, lol.  Although I also love to be outside, in the woods or in the water.  Hopefully soon....
*13. Can you drive a farm tractor or a semi? *Tractor yes, semi no.
*14. Do you make crafts or useful items? Would you want to teach others how to do these? *I can sew basic stuff, and i could crochet or knit a (sloppy) blanket.  I enjoy acrylic paints. And sketching with colored pencils.  I'd be happy to teach.
*15. Can you legally have all forms of livestock where you are at? Do you have any? What kinds?* I am legally allowed, no restrictions.  We have a horse and his donkey posse.  We plan to get goats & chickens in the spring.  I want to at minimum get feeder pigs in a couple years when we are settled, but might someday explore breeding pigs and/or a milk cow.
*16. Can you operate a lathe? Metal, wood?* Nope.
*17. Do you like to garden? If so, what do you enjoy growing? *I think I like the idea of gardening more than the actuality.  But I'm going to do it, darn it! It'll be easier when we aren't living on this postage stamp in the suburbs anymore! I hate being outside here where its cramped and the neighbors windows literally look into mine.  When I'm out for chores and enjoyment every day, gardening chores will be more enjoyable and more easily remembered! I want to eventually grow tomatoes, carrots, potatoes, onions, garlic, lettuce, broccoli, asparagus... our main staples.  We'll probably start with root veggies and tomatoes next year!
*18. Do you fish? Bait or explosives? *No, its not a favorite food and I'm not a fan of catch & release.
*19. How much space/land do you have or rent? City farm? Country?* 55acres! All wooded, so we'll be clearing some bits for pasture.
*20. Are you a Novice, Technician, degreed? *I don't have any formal farm training, but lots of work related stuff from when I was working with kids, and a BA in sociology/french
*21. What is your farm specialty? Or what one would you like to learn?* hmmmm .... jack of all trades? Lol. With self sufficiency to some degree in mind, we need to be diverse.  I'd love to eventually specialize in quality pigs or chicks for selling, if alllll the things go perfectly.  But that's a very secondary goal.
*22. If you could create a degree and curriculum, what would you major in and what classes would you take? *Anything? I love learning.  history, agriculture, languages...anything.  Especially if the professors are engaging and talented! My dream job (other than farm work) would be a paid student at uni, lol. 
*23. Do you do wood work? framing, finish, cabinet? *I'm sure I will be soon!!!
*24. Are you interested in herbal animal medicine? *In a supportive capacity, yes, but I think modern medicine also has an important/primary role.
*25. If you could live any place you chose, where would it be? *Hmm... I loved France, and Ireland... I'd love to live in Europe and be able to visit a new country on any given day trip!
*26. Do you use a wood stove for heating or cooking? *There is one in the garage, so we'll use it occasionally, but not in the house or for cooking.
*27. What would your ideal super hero/villain be?* Time travel like Dr. Who! Ha!
*28. Are your family or friends also interested in animals?* Very! It definitely runs in the family.  Although DH swears he's not having anything to do with the meat animals.
*29. Do you like to cook? Are you interested in whole foods and natural foods? raw milk? farm fresh eggs? *All of the above! I love cooking. And baking. And I want as much whole and natural foods as we can get.  I can't wait to raise our own eggs and meat!
*30. What was your best animal experience? Worst?* Oh gosh. I've been bucked, kicked, trampled, charged, etc by SO MANY horses.  Mostly my horse bc he was a brat as a baby.  But worst is probably rehoming 2 of my geldings when I couldn't support all 3 after leaving my toxic ex.... Best.. i don't know? So many good things.  Training my horse myself, and eventually making it to state fair and getting regular offers of incredible amounts of $$ for him?  The way he still lights up and wants to run when I get to the barn? (he's 24 now!) 
*31. Do you forage or hunt for part of your food needs?* Not yet, but we'd love to forage our woods!
*32. What skills do you have that help you be more a self sufficient farm? *Lots of animal husbandry, basic mechanical and tool stuff, great at research and tutorials to increase those skills!
*33. Do you process your own meat? Can or preserve?* We're going to! I've butchered lots of mammals- deer, pig, bear, etc, as a child.  We plan on starting our meat chickens in the spring! And I plan to learn to can and preserve.
*34. Do you use alternative energy sources on your farm? Would you like to?* That'd be amazing, but they're expensive to get off the ground.
*35 What is on your to do list? * Oh goodness... everything? build fences, rehab the barn, get all of the supplies and tools, rehab my sister's apartment, pack & move, build a chicken coop, clear land, build more fences, build garden beds, etc. etc. etc. We're starting from (almost) scratch!
*36. Have you ever lived completely off what you produce? Would you like to?* nope but i would LOVE to!
*37. In what do you trust?* science? my own 2 hands? not a lot to be honest!
*38. Do you make and fix things yourself to save money? *definitely!
*39. Has the experience with animals changed your attitude or habits? *you learn patience, diligence, hardwork and resiliency.  And partnership.  And responsibility.  It's hard to pinpoint how it has changed me since it has literally been since before I can remember.  I hope to impart a lot of this to my boys through our journey though!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Sep 28, 2021)

here are some pictures of our property at start.  Yellow is property line, with my sisters potential future property line marked off. (5 acres in that corner for sure).  The purple are future fences, the green possible garden spots.  Red is pasture locations i'm contemplating partially clearing.  I'm not sure how close our pasture can be to our wells though?  I'd like 5ish acres of pasture. I prefer the idea of the pasture being right behind the house where I can see the animals.  And then we'll run the pigs, and maybe the goats, through the trees where they can browse on the underbrush.  I very much want a permaculture, move the animals a lot kind of plan.  It reduces worms, and manure management, and helps keep them from over grazing. 

We're setting up the dry lot this month, and the dog run. The riding ring has to wait a while. But I might use temporary electric fencing to let them graze it. We'll also fence off that weird neighbor property that cuts into ours. I don't want loose animals escaping directly into their yard! (pipe dream... maybe they'll sell when we're in a position to buy it. lol) The area directly behind the main house is a wonderful shaded yard, and the garage to the left of the main house has a little potting shed that will be great for starting seeds. And the pool will be rehabbed in a year or two (hopefully), which i'm SUPER excited for.  

Oh, and here's a pic of my 2yr old riding my 24yo QH (he thinks he's 24mos, lol).  Can't wait to bring him home!


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## Alaskan (Sep 28, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> I'm not sure how close our pasture can be to our wells though?


Here septic has to be 100 feet from the well.

How deep is your well?  

With a deep well, I would see nothing wrong with having cattle or horses 9ver the well.

However,  you would want to treat pigs like a septic... 100 feet of more from the wellhead.  And pigs uphill would probably not be wise either.


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## Alaskan (Sep 28, 2021)

Oh!!!

AND, welcome to BYH!  It was great fun to read your intro.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Sep 29, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Here septic has to be 100 feet from the well.
> 
> How deep is your well?
> 
> ...


Thank you for the warm welcome! This community seems so great, I'm excited to be here.

Thank you for the info!! I have no idea how deep it is. I know there's two for some reason. Right next to each other. I'll have to ask the owner about depth. I've never had a well before! Our septic is off to the left, near the walnut trees somewhere, to my understanding.  100ft should be easy to manage, even if I put the horses and such behind the house.

I don't mind keeping the pigs farther, if we get them.  The undergrowth to the right of the barn seems much more like something they'd enjoy anyways!

One of the great perks of this place is the old owner lives right at the back of the property and LOVES the place. He grew up here and built both the houses and treated it like his baby. So we're super excited to have him as a neighbor.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Sep 29, 2021)

More pictures.  I'm so excited.  However, our closing date isn't as fixed as I was under the impression it is... supposed to be the 4th, but the appraiser drug his feet so much that it may not happen that soon.  Sigh.  If I'm driving posts in November... I'm not going to be happy....


Here's our house and garage and walnut grove!






Here's the barn, from the road across our future riding ring, and up closer.  You can see it has a basement level, a main level, and then the loft above that.  So much storage!











Here's where Luke & his donkey posse will live while we get more infastructure and clearing done. (The weedy patch to the right.  Lots of weed eating in my future.)





Last but not least... some adorable wildlife, and our donkey posse. Daddy will get cut as soon as we can get it scheduled.  But he'll likely cover momma one more time before that happens, so next year we'll likely have one more baby to keep this year's baby company.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Sep 29, 2021)




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## Alaskan (Sep 29, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> I have no idea how deep it is. I know there's two for some reason. Right next to each other. I'll have to ask the owner about depth. I've never had a well before!


Yep, depth is important to know...  deeper it is the safer it is from ground contaminants.  However stuff can wick down right at the well casing itself.



Thefarmofdreams said:


> If I'm driving posts in November


Uh....  is that even possible where you are at?  At my place we have maybe 2 more weeks of possible digging.... maybe.  

getting cold.


Thefarmofdreams said:


> some adorable wildlife,


  not deer!!! Ack!  There goes the garden!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Sep 29, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Yep, depth is important to know...  deeper it is the safer it is from ground contaminants.  However stuff can wick down right at the well casing itself.
> 
> 
> Uh....  is that even possible where you are at?  At my place we have maybe 2 more weeks of possible digging.... maybe.
> ...



I'll definitely find out re well depth!

And it is possible in November. Global warming and what not. December, I almost definitely can't, but early November I should be ok. It's still almost t shirt weather right now! I guess I'll be buying round pen panels otherwise, huh? 

And yeaaa I have already been contemplating how we're gonna deer proof the garden.  Sigh.  But they sure are cute. 

Eta... Their old garden still had volunteers from last year that the wildlife hadn't decimated in August... So I have hope.


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## Alaskan (Sep 29, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> Eta... Their old garden still had volunteers from last year that the wildlife hadn't decimated in August... So I have hope.


Probably just the *nasty* things....  like zucchini!


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## Baymule (Sep 29, 2021)

I am so happy and excited for you and your family. Plus a family compound, it just doesn't get any better than that. You and your family are going to have a wonderful life. 

I love the old barn, what a picture it makes! 

I love canning, dehydrating and freezing the meat I raise and the vegetables I grow. I have squirrel DNA. I will be delighted to help and advise you in any way. 

For deer fencing, build 2 fences about 4 feet or wide enough to run the riding lawn mower between. Deer can judge distance on a single fence, but not on 2 placed close together. Also, my grandpa built a deer fence. He built a good tight wire fence, I think 4 or 5 feet tall. He placed tall posts, about 8 feet and ran a cable at the top. Then he hung cables from the top to hang past the top of the fence. He placed the hanging cables a foot apart. The deer wouldn't jump through it.


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## Baymule (Sep 29, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Probably just the *nasty* things.... like zucchini!


Hey zucchini is good stuff! I make egg, zucchini and mozzarella lasagna noodles and it's darn good. Plus zucchini bread! Yummy!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Sep 29, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Probably just the *nasty* things.... like zucchini!


Lol!!! There were some squash vines and the like lol



Baymule said:


> I am so happy and excited for you and your family. Plus a family compound, it just doesn't get any better than that. You and your family are going to have a wonderful life.
> 
> I love the old barn, what a picture it makes!
> 
> ...


You are so kind Bay! Thank you! 🥰  We are definitely excited to have our own little village.  We definitely don't have that now... despite 20+ members of my husbands family living within 5 miles. We're pretty isolated here.  I can't wait to have help and community and friends for the kids literally next door!

I love the barn too!!  I'm beyond words with excitement... although I'm terrified to hear from the barn specialist about the bits of rehab it needs.  As far as I can tell, the wood is SOLID.  And the roof is fairly new.  but the beams supporting the first floor are a composite of many beams, and are bowing.  So the back wall is sinking and bowing the foundation out.  The fix, in my head anyways, seems straight forward. It should just need better (and better placed) support posts.  But jacking up a barn 2.5 story is definitely not something I want to tackle ourselves.

I can see it done in my mind's eye though.... livestock in the bottom, and one corner turned into a much-needed gym for the kids (think gymnastics mats and climbing walls and ropes to climb, etc), the upper story will be a couple horse stalls (i know, wood floor is a concern, but from what I've researched it is doable, especially with good maintenance, and the horses outside 80% of the time), a NICE tack room, equipment storage, possibly the chickens... and hay in the loft. It's gonna be amazing.

I'll definitely look into that for the deer fence!  I think the kitchen gardens might be... spread about.  There isn't a lot of clear space.  Unless we clear right behind the house, to help push the pasture farther from the well.... So I really don't have a solid plan pre-made for the food growing.


I CANNOT wait to pick your brain about canning and preserving!!  If that is what squirrel DNA means, I definitely have some too, lol!!! I don't even have a small garden or a single animal... but I just bought 6 extra pounds of ground meat so I could put 6 packs of meatballs in the freezer for next time, lol.  My grandma grew up post-depression on a farm, and I think some of her careful habits have been passed down.  I'm never happy unless we have several weeks worth of food on hand. (Forgive the paper towels. I still haven't figured out how to get kitchen towels to come out animal hair-free so it can touch food! )


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## Alaskan (Sep 29, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> Forgive the paper towels. I still haven't figured out how to get kitchen towels to come out animal hair-free so it can touch food! )


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## farmerjan (Sep 29, 2021)

Your type barn is typical of many older style barns... we have quite a few here in Va too.  The bottom is designed for the animals.... the second story is for equipment, grain, maybe something like chickens but NOT for large livestock due to the urine and manure produced.  I would not even want sheep on the second floor except maybe for a few temp lambing pens.. I don't like chickens housed in the barn above the cattle or horses due to lice and such.... and passing coccidiosis to other animals through the bits of manure that might get through the floor.  Plus, in cold climates like yours, you don't want alot of empty head space above the chickens.  They want to roost closer to the roof/ceiling for heat .  And less vulnerability... they will roost in the rafters if you let them.  Many of the old ones did not even have a floor for the "3rd story" ... it was just a huge space that went to the roof.... in the old days it was for loose hay.... and then for stacking sq bales as high as you could, climbing the ladder up the posts on the side of the "drive in bay"  and standing and stacking  more on top of them to the roof. 
Here many are cantilevered out over the bottom floor stalls to protect it from the weather and so that a wagon could be brought in close and the hay could be thrown out onto the wagon so easier....It doesn't look like yours is built that way, but did not see the side where the "bottom" is.


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## Baymule (Sep 29, 2021)

I have a 921 All American pressure canner-the only company still making pressure canners in AMERICA. I adore it. It is a finely machined precision instrument of preserving food. I named mine THE BEAST. 

With the sudden resurgence of interest in canning, there might be a waiting list. Check it out and if there is, get on it. 

I also have a 9 tray Excalibur dehydrator. I  got the solid sheets for liquid stuff. I wish I had got the timer on mine. 

neither one of these is cheap. It is an investment in good food for your family.


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## farmerjan (Sep 29, 2021)

Paper towels with a little grease from draining meatballs work just fine in the wood stove....


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## Thefarmofdreams (Sep 29, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Your type barn is typical of many older style barns... we have quite a few here in Va too.  The bottom is designed for the animals.... the second story is for equipment, grain, maybe something like chickens but NOT for large livestock due to the urine and manure produced.


Thank you for the thoughts! I totally understand the concerns with livestock on the second floor. From the research I've done though, a few horses, if properly managed and the floor properly prepped... Could be doable. It would only be for emergency/nasty weather. Imo horses do best outside. I'm hoping upstairs works out, because the bottom floor is too short for a full size horse.  I've found a few resources about keeping horses on second floors.  I plan to talk to the barn specialist before making any permanent decisions.  Worst case, I guess the horse gets a custom extension downstairs.  That is a good point about the chickens that I hadn't thought of though.  I'll have to keep them downstairs, or in the area on the main floor, under the loft,  where it has a lower ceiling and cement floor.  I do plan on building them a contained area wherever they winter, and tractoring them in mild weather. (Our loft does have a floor for it, but no front wall, it's open to the main floor, and the barn isn't cantilevered.)



Baymule said:


> I have a 921 All American pressure canner-the only company still making pressure canners in AMERICA. I adore it. It is a finely machined precision instrument of preserving food. I named mine THE BEAST.
> 
> With the sudden resurgence of interest in canning, there might be a waiting list. Check it out and if there is, get on it.
> 
> ...


Hahaha THE BEAST sounds excellent!! That's what I named my commercial KitchenAid mixer. I will definitely look into the all American canner and the Excalibur dehydrator soon.  (A canner is definitely on my Xmas list, lol.  Maybe DH will get it.). 

I totally understand the importance of a good investment on these types of things because of how beneficial it is long-term! No interest in cheap garbage I have to replace yearly.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Oct 2, 2021)

Working to prepare for fencing today.  I am hoping to be on the farm, getting rid of weeds and walking our fences out by the weekend! And putting hay in the barn!  

So today I need to decide the details about the purple dog run area, and the purple odd shaped dry lot on the picture I posted.  The dog run is definitely going to be a privacy fence, so hopefully they won't be SO barkful when they're out.  So 4x4's and fence panels there.  And a good gate to get the lawn mower in.  

The dry lot is a bit trickier.  It needs to keep in the horse and his donkey posse.  Electric for sure.  I think I'm going to buy a high end solar charge (i KNOW i KNOW, they're finicky and don't always work well.  Thus high end.  Right now, the barn doesn't have electric and it's over 300' to the nearest plug.)  I want to do at least 1 pass with electric tape so it is more visible, but I'm undecided whether to do the whole fence in tape.  I've worked with tape before.. It was okay.  We also need to decide about posts.  Long term we want wood posts for sure... but DH is pushing to just do T posts for now, and worry about augering holes and buying expensive wood posts later.  We can always repurpose the old T posts when we expand pasture.  I might use T posts on the straight sides, but do the corners up proper with wood posts and bracing.  I plan on putting the posts 8ft apart, so it'll be easy to add on no climb horse fence if/when we want to. Then the dry lot could contain almost any livestock we might want to get.  Especially if reinforced with electric to keep critters from rubbing on it.  I foresee it being our nursery area for birthing, closer observation for medical concerns, and to limit eating for special needs animals.  But long term, it won't be anyone's full time/permanent home- we want them out on pasture.  Just need to clear said pasture.... 

So... 4x4 wood, round wood or t posts?  Wire or woven or rope?  So many decisions.  Off to price check and research some more.


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## Alaskan (Oct 2, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> Right now, the barn doesn't have electric and it's over 300' to the nearest plug.


Hummmmm.

My pasture is maybe only 100 feet away...  so not sure on 300 feet.

BUT, I would figure it out without solar. Animals are always aware of the electric.   As soon as it shuts off they bolt. 

for our pasture we bought a roll of quality insulated copper wire.  The charger was on the side of the house, with a great ground.  Also, then I could just walk out my door and see it was on.  The insulated copper wire connected the charger to the fence.  We just rolled that wire down the hill, never buried it, had it a foot or so off the path.  Nothing bad ever happened, but running it through a busted up garden hose would be a safer smarter choice.

Not sure how much copper wire costs now,  but I would see what 300' of that would cost.

I suggest you call premier one fencing.   Ask them if 300' of copper wire would work.  Might just need to buy a stronger charger.

I used a premier fence with their fiberglass posts.  Held up just perfect.  Looks nice too, way less risk of shorting out the electric than with T-posts,  and they last longer than wood. 

In my paddock I did the electric fence with t-posts.  Every so often an electric rope would pop off an insulator and then it touches the t-post and sparks. 



Thefarmofdreams said:


> I want to do at least 1 pass with electric tape so it is more visible, but I'm undecided whether to do the whole fence in tape. I


I was very happy with electric rope.  No wind damage like what you get with tape.

I used it on my pasture with the fiberglass posts from premier,  used on T-posts for my paddock, and used it with little temporary step in posts for temporary pastures.

It holds up great.


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## Alaskan (Oct 2, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> Then the dry lot could contain almost any livestock we might want to get.


To contain everything.... 

I would vote for no climb woven fence, inexpensive metal wire electric strand at top, maybe at middle and bottom depending on the animals.

As far as posts....  eh, if you are going with woven no-climb...  pick whatever you like best.

Maybe you want a temporary electric set up now....  and later put up a great no-climb fence.


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## Baymule (Oct 2, 2021)

For back up on the solar charger, get an extra battery and put it on a trickle charger. On bad weather days, you can change out the batteries.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Oct 2, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Maybe you want a temporary electric set up now....  and later put up a great no-climb fence.


That's what we're thinking! If I get wood posts, then I can just add the woven later when its more needed.  These particular donkeys and horse would probably stay in with 1 spottily powered line, they're content to chill.  But in a year or two, I'll be happy the posts are ready and I just need to add woven, I'm thinking.

I will think about the wire with insulation/through a hose.  Problem is mowing. It'll be any of 4 adults doing it... and I have little faith in our ability to watch for/remember it.  In a few years, I'm hoping for electric in the barn.  Then I would be more interested in a plug in charger. The fence isn't far from the barn at all.


Baymule said:


> For back up on the solar charger, get an extra battery and put it on a trickle charger. On bad weather days, you can change out the batteries.


That's a good idea! I hadn't thought of that.


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## farmerjan (Oct 2, 2021)

When traveling to a pasture that was a bit away from the barn, we would just swap out the battery from the truck..... put the truck battery on the solar charger and the solar battery back in the truck... Stayed charged from the truck running.  But you are not going to another piece of land somewhere, so the battery on the trickle charger is good.  Have done that too.  The good thing about the truck battery.... you always had an extra battery that had multiple uses... and they last a long time if the solar charger is working and you can do a "fast charge" hooking it to the truck while running if needed too. We were running considerable length of electric so a truck battery was the most economical and the better choice.  Anything 12 volt like that will work.  Don't go with 6 volt.... they don't hold up and are expensive to replace.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Oct 2, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> When traveling to a pasture that was a bit away from the barn, we would just swap out the battery from the truck..... put the truck battery on the solar charger and the solar battery back in the truck... Stayed charged from the truck running.  But you are not going to another piece of land somewhere, so the battery on the trickle charger is good.  Have done that too.  The good thing about the truck battery.... you always had an extra battery that had multiple uses... and they last a long time if the solar charger is working and you can do a "fast charge" hooking it to the truck while running if needed too. We were running considerable length of electric so a truck battery was the most economical and the better choice.  Anything 12 volt like that will work.  Don't go with 6 volt.... they don't hold up and are expensive to replace.


That's an awesome idea! I'll definitely keep it in mind for when we have farm vehicles to trade batteries with!


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## Alaskan (Oct 2, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> If I get wood posts, then I can just add the woven later when its more needed.


The only thing....

If you have a true temporary electric fence... then the wood posts might be in the way.

Depends on what you mean by "temporary".

I really liked having a pile of step in stakes, and then my roll of electric rope.  It was handy to be able to set up any size or shape pasture anywhere i wanted.  I would also use it to cut up their permanent pasture to control grazing.

Handy stuff.


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## Alaskan (Oct 2, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> Problem is mowing.


Oh... yeah....  the part where the wire crossed the lawn we just lifted the sod and slipped the insulated wire under the sod.

So, no difficult digging.

We left it out in the open over the unmowed native area.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Oct 4, 2021)

*sigh* just found out from the realtor we have "a week or two" before close, despite the most recent estimate being TODAY.  I was REALLY hoping to be out there this weekend.  We have vacation time with the oldest kid next week that we were hoping to spend out there... I am beyond frustrated with this taking SO LONG. Our vaca was suposed to be work on the farm week.  If we close after that, DH will be working, and my sister's family has plans the next weekend... I'll basically be chasing a 2yo and building by myself.  If our appraiser hadn't taken 3x as long as he was supposed to... we'd be in by now. We put our offer in at the end of JULY.  ugh.   I sure hope I'm not stuck with a no-dig solution for fencing for the winter.


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## farmerjan (Oct 4, 2021)

I feel for you... I was nearly 2 months longer closing than I thought.... everytime I turned around they needed another paper or something... and I bought direct from the people, no real estate... but the bank and all took forever... THEN it took months to get someone there to do the floor sanding.... But I was not working with the timing of  others to help you like you are, or vacations planned or anything... 

So Sorry for you.... But you still aren't going as slow as some... mine was 4+ months from agreed on price to closing... with fewer of the "appraisals and approvals" that most places require  since there was not a real estate agent and needing county approval for this and that... we sort of slid some of the stuff in under the radar since it had been lived in by the sellers mother until her death... and they had records of the "new" roof and other things and the power was on and the well/water worked... didn't have to get water tested and approved or anything...yes the bank had to get an appraisal for the mortgage, but I put down 20% too... and the price was not outrageous... they will never lose money on it if I defaulted tomorrow...


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## Alaskan (Oct 4, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> *sigh* just found out from the realtor we have "a week or two" before close, despite the most recent estimate being TODAY.  I was REALLY hoping to be out there this weekend.  We have vacation time with the oldest kid next week that we were hoping to spend out there... I am beyond frustrated with this taking SO LONG. Our vaca was suposed to be work on the farm week.  If we close after that, DH will be working, and my sister's family has plans the next weekend... I'll basically be chasing a 2yo and building by myself.  If our appraiser hadn't taken 3x as long as he was supposed to... we'd be in by now. We put our offer in at the end of JULY.  ugh.   I sure hope I'm not stuck with a no-dig solution for fencing for the winter.


The step in stakes that I have for temporary electric fence, can go in when the ground is already pretty hard.   Just do it slow and gentle, and it should be ok.

You wanted a temporary electric fence anyway.     Also, with a temporary fence you can stick them right on the lawn up by your house.  That will give you time to fiddle with fence chargers and such.

With the 2 year old, give him a bit of wood with partly screwed in screws... tell him to finish screwing them in... by hand of course.  That should give you at least 10 minutes to work without being interrupted. 

Now, if he tries to wallop you on the head with a bit of board covered in screws... I did NOT give you this suggestion.


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## Baymule (Oct 5, 2021)

Closing can be a nightmare. I feel your pain. We bought this place as a HUD repo. Worst experience ever. Hud gives you only 45 days to close. For 3 weeks our paperwork sat on some finance guy's desk and I could not get hold of him. Finally got hold of his boss and things finally got started. Then finance got switched to someone else. I was dealing with 2 people, one in New Jersey, one in California. The time difference made it even a little more interesting. 

Hud only allows 3 extensions, then they yank it away and put the house back up for bid. To make a long story short, we had to file for all 3 extensions at a $320 pop for each one. On the LAST day of the LAST extension, we finally closed. Talk about a nail biter! I was stress exhausted at that point, but it was finally ours. Financing a HUD repo is not for the faint of heart. During the financing process, thieves broke in, pulled copper wire from under the house, stole the inside and outside units, pulled the breaker box wiring and did $10,000 worth of damage. HUD allowed us a measly $1,000 off the price AND we only had 30 days to get all that fixed after closing. 

Overall, I'd have to say that while the appraiser held things up for you, yours is a cake walk. Consider yourself BLESSED and do a happy dance.


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## Alaskan (Oct 5, 2021)

Baymule said:


> During the financing process, thieves broke in, pulled copper wire from under the house, stole the inside and outside units, pulled the breaker box wiring and did $10,000 worth of damage. HUD allowed us a measly $1,000 off the price


That happened to my grandpa's place.

Just good grief!!  

What is it with people!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Oct 5, 2021)

Thank you all for the reassurances.  We're definitely lucky compared to all those horror stories.  Our realtor is calling people left and right to harass them about it all.  It's a complicated property due to having a house, a barn, and income property all on the same place, and I guess the lot numbers and house numbers aren't matched properly either, so the appraiser was slow as all get out, and it seems the lawyer doing up the deed will be too.  Sigh.

@Alaskan your reassurance about the step in posts is definitely an idea. I wasn't sure about using them for the whole winter with no back up if they were only powered by sun.... but if I finagle a way to plug them into the wall, so it's more certain (and stronger), so nobody can touch the fence.... that would feel much more secure. So that's a good back up plan. And round pen panels as an absolute last resort. Just leaves hay. 🤞  🤞  🤞  🤞 the hay guy I found doesn't sell my hay before I can get it in.  And that I get the property before Nov, since I already gave the horse's barn 30 day notice... I might have to ask the owner if we can rent for a month at this rate!!!!!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Oct 6, 2021)

Somebody is already getting ready for barn chores. 😆


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## Thefarmofdreams (Oct 12, 2021)

So everything is on hold.  Our bank won't fund the mortgage because "the comparable property is unacceptable".... basically the place is so awesome and unique, there are no comparable properties, so they refuse to accept the value on the estimate.  It's INFURIATING.  So after stringing us along for almost 3 months, they said no, and we have to start again.  We have the down payment and credit and equity... we'll definitely get a loan... but now we're looking at another 2-3 weeks minimum.  I could cry.  But we'll figure it out.  I'm crossing my fingers the owner will let us have prepossession so we can at least get the animals in.


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## farmerjan (Oct 12, 2021)

Can you just rent with purchase to be completed within 6 or 12 months at this point???? It would give them some sort of reassurance that you are serious.... you can get in there and make improvements which will be to owners benefit IF you were to default and not buy it....???? 
NY state is not the "let's all move here" state like say Tx .... I would think at this point that the owner would be willing to do something to help the sale along like a rent/to buy deal of some sort.  Did you explore the possibility of owner financing for say a set time of a couple years?  Do they need the sale to buy something else?  

Go to a half dozen banks and get a commitment from someone.... Have you tried unconventional financing..... even some place like "Lending Tree"..... 

Sure hope you can make it work.  I was recommended to the bank that I got my financing through because the appraiser  that the owners called, said that this bank worked with people who bought houses that "needed some work".... as mine did.  They were pretty good to work with.... My credit union would not finance a place that was not "move in ready"   and I put down 20%.....and I had been with that credit union for over 20 years....

Good Luck.....


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## Thefarmofdreams (Oct 12, 2021)

Thank you @farmerjan we were referred to a local bank that will finance in house, so finding a comparable property won't matter (which is the only problem right now.  The property is gorgeous and in great shape, but complex and unique). The realtors have connections that they are promising will hurry this along. I'm crossing all my fingers, lol


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## Baymule (Oct 12, 2021)

Crossing my fingers too!


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## farmerjan (Oct 12, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> Thank you @farmerjan we were referred to a local bank that will finance in house, so finding a comparable property won't matter (which is the only problem right now.  The property is gorgeous and in great shape, but complex and unique). The realtors have connections that they are promising will hurry this along. I'm crossing all my fingers, lol


🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏


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## Bruce (Oct 13, 2021)

Just found this



Thefarmofdreams said:


> Our septic is off to the left, near the walnut trees somewhere, to my understanding.


Seems like there would have to be another one for the apartments. 



Thefarmofdreams said:


> I know there's two for some reason. Right next to each other.


One for the house, one for the apartments? 



Thefarmofdreams said:


> Here's our house and garage


He build a house with that roof pitch in "Lake effect snow" country? 
I have a friend whose mother lives in Watertown. One year the snow was up past the first floor windows. That is a LOT of snow load on a nearly flat roof.



Thefarmofdreams said:


> Lots of weed eating in my future.


That is what the donkeys are for! I don't think you would find the weeds all that palatable anyway.



Thefarmofdreams said:


> And it is possible in November.


Yep, the ground won't freeze until some time in December ... if then. I put in my fence in December. Did have a thin bit of frozen ground near the end. The rocks I kept finding were the bigger problem. 



Alaskan said:


> then it touches the t-post and sparks.


Yes and such a lovely blue spark it is at night!



Thefarmofdreams said:


> Problem is mowing. It'll be any of 4 adults doing it... and I have little faith in our ability to watch for/remember it.


HAVE to bury it then.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Oct 13, 2021)

Thanks for the feedback Bruce! I think both wells are supplying both buildings... One is back up, I believe?  And now that you mention the apartment septic... I'll have to double check. They gave us so much info I don't remember where theirs is!

No problems with the roof reported... It may be the general decline in snow in NY? I know in buffalo area, we get less every year. 

A lot of the weeds near the dry lot are milkweed, they aren't safe to leave near the horses. So definitely some weed eating even there before they move in. And we aren't going to be running them around the yard.  Dh is a city boy... I think he'd be..  mildly disturbed.   

Mortgage people called back. They're waiting on more paperwork from the other bank. So. More waiting. Sigh.


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## Baymule (Oct 13, 2021)

No horses in the yard?


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## Alaskan (Oct 13, 2021)

Baymule said:


> No horses in the yard?


Yeah...   how else do you keep the grass short?


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## Baymule (Oct 14, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Yeah...   how else do you keep the grass short?


SHEEP!!!


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## Alaskan (Oct 14, 2021)

Baymule said:


> SHEEP!!!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 3, 2021)

Its been a busy few weeks with school and halloween... but wanted to check in!

We still don't have a close date, but the (second) appraisal has been done and we're just waiting for it to come back, I guess.  (heard that before...)

We got an estimate on barn repairs yesterday.  8hrs in the car... and 3 hrs with the guy.... Barn is in excellent shape for an old barn, but needs 3 fairly major repairs- cabling, post replacement w/ concrete footers on the back wall, and eventually, jacking the mow and replacing posts.  Looking at $45k all together... and the first 2 are fairly timely. Sooooooo that'll be some fun financial gymnastics to figure out.   😅  Plus other things it needs that we can do- extending some drain tile, replacing the front trim, etc.  Plus some kind of special lime product to coat the inside of the stone wall on the bank side of the barn??  I knew it was going to be a project, all old barns are... but I was hoping for a bit longer timeline or lower price point. That's not even counting building stalls, and never mind electricity, water, lighting.  He does think I could put the horses upstairs, but with all the other costs going on, I don't see it being feasible $$ and project wise.

ETA oh also, it was snowing when we got there.  It wasn't sticking, but there was definitely white stuff.   💩 .  We need in there ASAP before fencing becomes even more of a headache!!!!


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## Bruce (Nov 3, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> Plus some kind of special lime product to coat the inside of the stone wall on the bank side of the barn??


If it is old the stuff holding the stones together is lime based, not the modern Portland cement based. They expand and contract at different rates so you should not mix them. I gather doing so in a stone foundation can actually do more damage than doing nothing.



Thefarmofdreams said:


> We need in there ASAP before fencing becomes even more of a headache!!!!


That's for sure, don't want to be out there fencing in frozen ground AND with frozen fingers.  I hope you hit ZERO rocks putting in the posts!


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## Alaskan (Nov 3, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> That's not even counting building stalls


Ah, stalls....  what are those for?

I know fancy places have stalls.... we just used the barn as a run-in shelter for horses. 

With the goats it was a run in too...  but we did have one large section that we fenced off with pallets to lock up goats at night.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 3, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Ah, stalls....  what are those for?
> 
> I know fancy places have stalls.... we just used the barn as a run-in shelter for horses.
> 
> With the goats it was a run in too...  but we did have one large section that we fenced off with pallets to lock up goats at night.


My old man definitely needs his own space... he won't use it much, but he gets stressed out. He's a fussy old thing. lol.  And the goats/donkeys need spaces separate from each other when its nasty enough to need shelter.  So it'll have to be divided up one way or another, eventually.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 16, 2021)

We FINALLY have a close date.  This upcoming Tuesday.  I then have the rest of that week to get everything ready for horses, so I can pick up Luke and his posse that weekend.  And THEN we gotta dig post holes for the dog fence before it freezes. (i'm debating between being frugal and doing it by hand, vs saving time and getting an auger... the auger would likely have to be buying a cheap one, because they're so expensive to rent it isn't worth it.) And then finally I can think about taking the time to move.  😅 I might be too stressed to be excited at this point.


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## Bruce (Nov 16, 2021)

How many post holes, how is the soil and how many big rocks are you likely to hit?


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## Baymule (Nov 16, 2021)

Good question!
I was going to suggest an auger from Harbor Freight. Hand held with gasoline engine, we had one and fenced our 8 acres with it.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 17, 2021)

Bruce said:


> How many post holes, how is the soil and how many big rocks are you likely to hit?


That is a VERY good question.  I know if there's rocks, by hand is definitely not an option.  It is "well drained" soil, definitely wasn't a former landfill type situation with lots of garbage.  Beyond that, I have no clue! And quite a few.  The planned fence is 56x80.... so 32? posts.  If i'm mathing right.  Plus extras by gates... I need to map it out when we get there.  I'd like to fence in the whole front yard for them. The auger would definitely get good use... if it lasts... as we plan to put up permanent fencing in the spring for the horses, and down the road to fence in about 5 acres with no climb. Once its cleared.  Probably should get the auger.  Just shy of spending anything with 30k of barn repairs looming...


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## Bruce (Nov 17, 2021)

Depends on what size rocks! Can't auger through even a decent size rock, end up having to dig them out with a shovel. There is a rock everywhere I want to put a post, there is probably also a rock everywhere I don't have a desire to put a post.

Are you planning woven wire? You don't need wood posts all the way. 3 per corner, braced and wired (wrap around and tie off the fence at each corner post). T posts in between and they typically aren't set as deep as a wood post so potentially fewer rocks to hit. I spaced mine 10' apart. T-posts can be adjusted if you hit a rock. 4 posts per gate, again braced and wired. 

Also, if you are putting in pipe gates, I suggest replacing the screw in J bolts that come with them with through post threaded J bolts (which yes you get to pay extra for). They have 2 large washers and nuts, you can micro adjust them while the gate is mounted. Helps a lot to get and keep the gate level.


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## Alaskan (Nov 17, 2021)

When there is a rock where you are digging your hole, use a big heavy rod of metal.   Pick it up, drop it down... repeat... use post hole digger to get out rock chunks.
Slow, slow work.


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## Bruce (Nov 17, 2021)

Assuming the rock has a desire to split into small pieces!


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## Alaskan (Nov 17, 2021)

Bruce said:


> Assuming the rock has a desire to split into small pieces!


I was thinking about that....

Not that it LIKES busting up... but in Texas it is mostly limestone.... so breakable. 

Not sure what you would do if you were stuck with granite boulders. Dinomite?


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## Bruce (Nov 18, 2021)

Yes, limestone and shale would be a joy!!! Haven't hit any of those here. 

The problem with dinomite (sic) is you need a license to use it. There are legal methods for "commoners", STA posted some videos a year or 2 back. Only problem with them is the cost, lots of hundreds of $$. I found a place that rents them but way over in NH, the cost would still be high given you waste a day getting it and another getting it returned. Now if there was a place locally ... I have a number of areas in the fields that would be improved with a bit of blasting. My mower would be very appreciative and so would I.


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## Baymule (Nov 18, 2021)

Auger are a labor saver. Here are several.









						Gas Powered Earth Auger
					

Amazing deals on this 2Hp Gasoline Auger Powerhead W/6In Bit at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




					www.harborfreight.com
				






			https://www.lowes.com/pd/43cc-One-Man-Auger-Powerhead/4087314?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-sol-_-ggl-_-LIA_SOL_154_Handheld-Gas-Ope-_-4087314-_-0-_-0-_-0&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg6bF1Kqj9AIVkwh9Ch3clA9fEAQYASABEgI4xfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
		










						Southland 43cc Earth Auger Powerhead with 8 in. Bit SEA438 - The Home Depot
					

Southland Earth Auger gives you the power to drill holes for decks, fence posts, tree planting and more. It features a 43cc engine with a bit speed up to 317 RPM for quick, efficient drilling. This hardworking



					www.homedepot.com


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## Bruce (Nov 19, 2021)

Nice of you to post links Bay 

Personally I'd be quite shy of trying to use one of those "1 man". That is a lot of HP and torque. If it catches on anything I hate to think what damage it could do to my arms and shoulders.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 19, 2021)

Thank you for all the feedback!! I think we will get an auger... and just hope like crazy there aren't huge rock problems.     I also need to decide on how I want to block off the part of the barn that's going to function as a shed for the winter.  I think round pen panels, but i'm not at all certain.... Whatever it is, it needs to be quick, relatively safe, and temporary.  They can't have the whole dairy parlor bc the floor sags too low for the horse in the middle and i'm worried he'll bust himself on it.  In the spring I'll work on building an addition of a horse stall or two, and build some proper stalls for the donkeys inside.

The fence we're building this winter is a privacy fence for the dogs (to cut down on their incessant barking), so all 4x4 posts.  The riding ring will be wood posts too.  I think t posts sound like an impaling waiting to happen... I've landed on post & rail fences, they're bad enough.   And the 5 acres... not sure. Possibly t posts, although they're frowned upon by some for horses... sooooo if budget allows, we might go wood there too.

So today I'm doing NOTHING to make sure I don't completely overtax myself before the rough week even starts (i'm good at over doing it)... and then sunday we go out and put hay in the barn, and tuesday we go BACK out and close, set up some cots, and start doing all the animal prep.... get the equines in next weekend... and then get to work on the dog fence as soon as our permit goes through. 💦 And then I can actually move our house things the next weekend.  And then get our current apartment ready to rent out.  It's gonna be a long couple months.


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## Bruce (Nov 19, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> It's gonna be a long couple months.


Yes it is!!!!

I have no history with horses but I agree that wood posts for the riding ring are much more appropriate than T posts. I was thinking perimeter fence. 

Yep, buy the power auger, it probably won't cost any more, and might be less, than renting. And you'll have it for all future fence projects. Wood posts around 5 acres would be a LOT of work! And even if you do go mainly T-posts, you'll still have quite a number of post holes to dig.


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## Alaskan (Nov 19, 2021)

Bruce said:


> Nice of you to post links Bay
> 
> Personally I'd be quite shy of trying to use one of those "1 man". That is a lot of HP and torque. If it catches on anything I hate to think what damage it could do to my arms and shoulders.


I was thinking those arms smacking my ribs.

I prefer my ribs to be uncracked.


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## Alaskan (Nov 19, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> Possibly t posts, although they're frowned upon by some for horses... sooooo if budget allows, we might go wood there too.


Yeah....  I have seen photos of horses impaled on T-posts.   

BUT, in our small winter only paddock we used T-posts with electric rope.  We never had an issue.....  but...  clearly it can happen.   

I think I have seen some kind of t-post cap that you can buy, that makes them a bit more horse safe.

of course, the electric we used helped too...  since they didn't want to get close to the electric.


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## Mike CHS (Nov 19, 2021)

About 1/3 of our place is too rocky to use an auger but the rest is good to go.  I just always made sure I had a bunch of shear pins on hand and got to where I could change a shear pin in a few minutes.


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## Bruce (Nov 19, 2021)

Mike CHS said:


> I just always made sure I had a bunch of shear pins on hand


Good point. Never want to stop a project in the middle because you don't have a shear pin. I carry a few in my pocket when I'm running the snow blower.


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## farmerjan (Nov 20, 2021)

We keep shear pins to anything that needs them with the piece of equipment.  The sq baler has the area for the rolls of twine with the cover that comes down over it, there are small tool boxes on nearly every tractor fender and the cab tractors have several bolts and shear pins and cotter pins and pliers and usually a 9/16 wrench or a couple of adjustable wrenches,  in the floor on the side the door doesn't open.... we buy extras at yard sales and such just to keep in the various vehicles.... They get lost and broken and and such, but in a pinch it sure is handy to have something in the tractor that you can make work til you can get back to the barn/shop.  Different for the smaller operator that most of you are on here, but having extras is never bad.....
Like @Bruce said, nothing worse than having to stop a project in the middle for lack of a small but essential part.


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## Baymule (Nov 20, 2021)

We bought our auger at Harbor Freight. Best $200 I ever spent. We fenced our 8 acres, cross fenced into 5 pastures plus a garden. Lots of gates, which require sturdy posts and H-braces. Corner posts, H-braces on long spans, that auger got a lot of use on our small place. When done, we gave it to a neighbor. 

If concerned about the torque wrenching you around, use two people to hold it. 

Wood posts sound like a good idea on a riding ring, but I see no reason not to use T-posts for parameter fencing. I've never had a horse impale themselves on a T-post, nor do I know anyone that has had that happen to any horse they have ever had. Seriously, if a horse is that wild, flighty and stupid to impale themselves on a T-post, it is more than likely a dangerous animal, call the vet and put them down. I've had a few crazy horses, but not even those idiots impaled themselves on a T-post. I got rid of them.


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## Mini Horses (Nov 20, 2021)

I know someone who had a horse running, slipped and slid into a wooden post.  Broke it's neck.  Freak accident.   Just do what seems best because nothing is foolproof.

I have the rubber toppers for my t-posts....they push on, white, makes it seen.  They do cover a sharp top which comes with pounding.   Helps with rubbing and getting cut, for me and the animals.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 21, 2021)

We have hayyyyyyy!!!!!! Drove the 4 hours, unloaded bales w my brother in law (poor guy doesn't even want animals   ) while my sister chased the kids, did my final walk through of the house... And drove home.  So tired!

BUT WE HAVE HAY!!!!!!

Eta... Now I need to figure out an economical way to put up a temporary 40' barrier across the barn to keep them in one end ..

(Also, our barn still has the original track and hook/claw for unloading hay from horse drawn wagons back in the day. Both our barn repair guy and hay guy were super psyched to notice it. Once we have light I need to try to get pics.)


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## Alaskan (Nov 21, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> (Also, our barn still has the original track and hook/claw for unloading hay from horse drawn wagons back in the day. B


Oooooh!


Still in working order?


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 22, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Oooooh!
> 
> 
> Still in working order?


no idea!! It looks ok? From what I can make out? It's super hard to see it way up in the ceiling with no lights.  I can barely make out what they're talking about 😆


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## Baymule (Nov 22, 2021)

Hay! Wealth in string. A winter supply of hay is a good feeling. It's like a laid in store of food for your own family.


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## Bruce (Nov 22, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> Both our barn repair guy and hay guy were super psyched to notice it.


I would be too!!!! Very cool. My barn was built before that sort of thing was done ... or since there is no loft, only a ground level mow next to the drive bay, maybe they saw no need.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 22, 2021)

Baymule said:


> Hay! Wealth in string. A winter supply of hay is a good feeling. It's like a laid in store of food for your own family.


yes!!! It is such a relief.  I got enough that honestly, it could potentially last a full year.  By next year it'll be great for donkeys, or bedding, or whatever. Just in case we have trouble getting hay in the spring, i wanted us overstocked. 😁


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## farmerjan (Nov 22, 2021)

Hay will be good for several years if it is well made and of good quality.  If there are no wet or moldy spots, we have hay keep good for over 5 years in the hay mow.  It will get a little drier but still very edible.  There will be a little loss of quality, but it will be slight.  There may be some loss of color and bleaching if it is exposed to light.  There is no reason to think it will only be bedding quality in a year.  
Your best bet is to get more 2nd cutting than first cutting if possible as the stems and all will be finer and more palatable for smaller ruminants.  Also higher protein quality if made right.  It is often hard to get hay made for first cutting in a timely manner as it is growing so fast that optimal quality widow is very small.  2nd cutting is slower and so there is a little more window for quality.... as well as the weather/time of year is often better for getting enough good drying time.  I am originally from CT and used to help neighbors make hay as a kid and we worked our butts off to get hay made in the spring/early summer due to the frequent rains and all.  July was better for hay making, if there was enough rain to get enough growth, because you had more lengths of time/days to get hay dry.   

There didn't need to be separate raised hay mows on the sides in order to use the old rail and hook to unload the old wagons.  Having a set that is still workable is really nice but it is unlikely you will use it much.  Still, it is a part of history.  Hay was put up loose and was lifted off the wagons, run along the track and then dropped to where other people would distribute it into the area they wanted it stacked.  Hay was spread and more piled on top so that it could be packed down.  It took alot of time to fill a mow or section or barn.  
Hay was also fed out back then by pitchfork full,  and animals were often kept in stalls in the winter and fed what they cleaned up, not allowed to feed free choice. Please they were fed in accordance to what work they were preforming on the farmstead.   Honestly, we all feed too much hay to our animals.... allowing them to waste more than they need to instead of them actually cleaning it up as they used to years ago.  Most full size cattle need 35-40 lbs of good hay a day, for their rumen to efficiently operate also. That is one sq bale a day per 1,000 lbs of cow..... 
Again, quality is a key also.  

Congrats on getting hay in the barn for the winter. It is like  money in the bank and as you said, it is insurance against a bad year next year;  no rain, too much rain,  poor hay, too much hay and wet crummy hay....


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## farmerjan (Nov 22, 2021)

Either get some of the larger longer pallets to make a semi-solid barrier... or use combination cattle panels, or just the 16 ft panels that are designed for sheep and goats,  from like TSC and put them at least 4-6 ft from the hay to keep the animals off of it.  Also, stack the hay in as small a stack as possible, to keep the quality better by not exposing any more than necessary to sunlight and such.  Like a pantry, kept in the semi dark will preserve the quality better.  Most hay barns/hay mows do not have a bunch of windows... they have some louvered sections to be able to breathe and keep the air moving without getting "weather" (rain-snow) on the hay.


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## Bruce (Nov 22, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Your best bet is to get more 2nd cutting than first cutting if possible as the stems and all will be finer and more palatable for smaller ruminants.


Certainly true of my pseudo ruminant alpacas. They think first cut is bedding or pee/poop worthy.


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## Alaskan (Nov 22, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Hay will be good for several years if it is well made and of good quality.  If there are no wet or moldy spots, we have hay keep good for over 5 years in the hay mow.  It will get a little drier but still very edible.  There will be a little loss of quality, but it will be slight.


X2

If the hay is kept dry,  and out of sun it stays in great shape.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 22, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Either get some of the larger longer pallets to make a semi-solid barrier... or use combination cattle panels, or just the 16 ft panels that are designed for sheep and goats,  from like TSC and put them at least 4-6 ft from the hay to keep the animals off of it.  Also, stack the hay in as small a stack as possible, to keep the quality better by not exposing any more than necessary to sunlight and such.  Like a pantry, kept in the semi dark will preserve the quality better.  Most hay barns/hay mows do not have a bunch of windows... they have some louvered sections to be able to breathe and keep the air moving without getting "weather" (rain-snow) on the hay.


Thank you! Extra ideas are great to have. I wonder if I can get some pallets cheap... If not panels it is. Luckily the hay is upstairs and horses are down, but I need my qh to stay where the ceiling is higher and not brain himself.  😆 


Alaskan said:


> X2
> 
> If the hay is kept dry,  and out of sun it stays in great shape.


That would be amazing. But honestly, a decent chunk of this load looked sketchier than I liked, and it was dustier than it should've been. I'm going to try to sort it a bit and get the iffy stuff out sooner, but I'm mentally preparing myself for the possibility of quality loss. There wasn't time to get a trial bale and choose a supplier for quality. 

  Storage wise it should be great though. It's in the top of the barn, only a few small windows, and we'll almost never be even opening the doors to there, since we can just go up the stairs from the dairy to get it.


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## farmerjan (Nov 22, 2021)

Your QH will learn to keep his head down if he has to.  I agree to not want him to have to "duck" all the time... but they will learn if they want to be in under cover in bad weather.  They ain't dummies....


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 23, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Your QH will learn to keep his head down if he has to.  I agree to not want him to have to "duck" all the time... but they will learn if they want to be in under cover in bad weather.  They ain't dummies....


True! He's a smart and laid-back dude. I'm more concerned about if he startles or things get rough w a donkey and he forgets for a minute, lol.

We're in the new place! The bathroom is infested with wasps, the internet took hours to convince to work, hot water tank was off at the breaker, and we only just now found pizza for dinner. But at least we're here. And fed. And do infact have hot water.  Off to investigate the best way to exterminate wasps in my bathroom vent....


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## Alaskan (Nov 23, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> True! He's a smart and laid-back dude. I'm more concerned about if he startles or things get rough w a donkey and he forgets for a minute, lol.
> 
> We're in the new place! The bathroom is infested with wasps, the internet took hours to convince to work, hot water tank was off at the breaker, and we only just now found pizza for dinner. But at least we're here. And fed. And do infact have hot water.  Off to investigate the best way to exterminate wasps in my bathroom vent....


 for the wasps!

Nice you figured out hot water and Internet.


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## Baymule (Nov 24, 2021)

You are there! Move out wasps, they are moving in and you gotta go!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 26, 2021)

Finishing fencing and building a wall today. We have taken back possession of the bathroom... Which was anticlimactic. There's no nest in the exhaust fan, which is what I expected. Only one wasp in there upon entry. Sprayed down the fan anyway. But we can't find where or how they're coming in. 😬 so the wasp spray lives in the bathroom for now and the door stays shut just in case.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 26, 2021)

My electric fence is up and we built our dividing wall.  I just need to grab a few things to finish connecting power... And family is going to weedwhack so it isn't grounding out. Progress!!!


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## farmerjan (Nov 26, 2021)

Looks great!!!!!!


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## Baymule (Nov 27, 2021)

So exciting! I would love to find a place with a nice barn like that!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 28, 2021)

We got Luke and his donkey posse moved in yesterday!! They didn't get in till 7pm bc of the long drive. My husband, sil and bil worked on finishing most of it up while I was gone. Today I got the fence pretty much done. I need an extension cord bc it's outlet apparently doesn't work. And a few more tasks in the barn. Luke doesn't seem inclined to respect the fence, so I think he's gonna be supervised turn out only... He is a good jumper.  But the donkeys should be able to come out once I get power to the fence.


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## farmerjan (Nov 28, 2021)

You'll get it worked out.  I have faith in you because you have managed to get this all put together so far.  Congrats on getting them moved.  Guess the push was to get them out before you got stuck with another month board too,  so that is great.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 28, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> You'll get it worked out.  I have faith in you because you have managed to get this all put together so far.  Congrats on getting them moved.  Guess the push was to get them out before you got stuck with another month board too,  so that is great.


Yup. I had already given my 30 days notice once... And I bought the donkeys in August and just... Didn't pick them up. (We did agree to delayed pick up but still) Sooooo it was pressing to get them out of their respective places.


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## Alaskan (Nov 28, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> We got Luke and his donkey posse moved in yesterday!! They didn't get in till 7pm bc of the long drive. My husband, sil and bil worked on finishing most of it up while I was gone. Today I got the fence pretty much done. I need an extension cord bc it's outlet apparently doesn't work. And a few more tasks in the barn. Luke doesn't seem inclined to respect the fence, so I think he's gonna be supervised turn out only... He is a good jumper.  But the donkeys should be able to come out once I get power to the fence.


Nice horse, glad the fence looks like it will work,bummer on the outlet...


And MAJOR LUST AFTER THAT BARN!!!!  ROOL


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## Bruce (Nov 29, 2021)

Are you ready for the "lake effect" Erie snow dumps?


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 30, 2021)

Bruce said:


> Are you ready for the "lake effect" Erie snow dumps?


lol!! We also get 'lake effect' snow in buffalo... although I'm told its a solid half foot to a foot less/year in buffalo.  We did get snow up there before buffalo this year... it is gonna be interesting with out a tractor or plow, but we'll make do! Got sleds for water already  😁   I'm honestly more concerned about deep freezes than snow.  Mild freezing doesn't even touch the inside of the barn and water is easy, regardless of snow.  I'm dreading the uber cold when even a barrel of water freezes! We'll see how it goes though!


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## Bruce (Dec 1, 2021)

The mother of a guy I used to work with lives (lived?) in Watertown. I've seen pictures I'd put a snow removal machine of some sort in the budget. Of course the day you buy it is the day it stops snowing appreciably for the next 2 years 

Opps, my mistake, you got Lake Erie snow before, now you'll get Lake Ontario snow.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 2, 2021)

We think we have a snow blower one way or another!

It's been a busy couple days. Trips to buffalo bc of my oldest's visitation with dad. Trips to stores for proper boots and more supplies.  Finally got the fence finished and powered!  My qh seems very inclined to jump it...    and the first time we let the donkeys out, the jenny happily led her family right through it and took off down the road.  Soooooooo nobody is going out right now. Silly creatures. My sister might get her goat net early so the donkeys can use it... Or add extra grounding rods and try with the fence wire a bit lower so maybe the donkeys won't just hop between the two cords without a care for being zapped. I'm not sure if that'll be enough give how loose the wires are bc of the plastic posts. Luckily the barn is 40x60, and only about 12x40 is enclosed for stalls, so we use the other 45ish as a place for them to stretch their legs twice a day... And lunge lining when it isn't raining. Except the donkeys have nooooo clue what to do with one.. . At least the qh gets to run on the line. Worst case scenario, they're a bit sedate this winter and we put up the riding arena/fence first thing in spring. Sigh.

Plus side, I think I solved the bug problem. A box and tape for now.   

Also. My 2 yo loves riding his little bike in the barn. He's in heaven. 😆


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## Alaskan (Dec 2, 2021)

I couldn't get my goats to respect electric rope...

But the horses were great with it... as long as it was charged. 

Even with plastic posts,  there shouldn't be sag.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 3, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Even with plastic posts,  there shouldn't be sag.


Is there a trick to it? My corners bend and lean when I get it anywhere near tight enough to look like a fence should.

I did the donkey's feet this am. I would rather have waited till they were a bit more handled and mannered... But their feet were baaadddddd. The jack looks a lot better.  2 feet are near normal and 2 still need some work, but I've never done neglected feet before and he's got some white line issues going on in the toe, so I'm gonna do some research, let is both breath and revisit.  The jenny was much more difficult, much kicking and rearing.  Her back feet weren't as awful, but the front are awful and curly. I did my best to get a start, but they've started cracking and peeling. And her soles are ROCK HARD.  I'm researching local farriers, and more about how to fix her up. I'm not sure I can get them fixed myself. 

One picture of the jack with one foot done and one not done and some other donkey pics.  The jenny LOVES the baby and kept visiting him while we worked. She also repeatedly visited me to see what I was doing to her hubby's feet.  😆


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## Alaskan (Dec 3, 2021)

Never done donkey feet.

Actually,  I have only done goats.

We used a farrier for the horses.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 3, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Never done donkey feet.
> 
> Actually,  I have only done goats.
> 
> We used a farrier for the horses.


My farrier was 80 when I was a teen and he was amazing at his job. He taught me a ton, so I'm pretty good at the average hoof.  But he was worried about appearances so he wouldn't let me properly apprentice and go to other farms with him, so I've little experience with troubled feet and starting new to me feet.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 10, 2021)

Well we're still cooking along. Hoping for fence 2.0 to be ready this weekend. I had to be at the old house for the last 2 days, so my sister was holding down the fort. Back at the homestead to get to work.


 It appears that the horse and his posse are going to destroy the fence-stall much faster than hoped, so I'm seriously considering just building permanent stalls in the barn.  The plan was to build approximately a 10' extension, with the aisle continued and a stall on either side with proper ceiling height for the 2 full size horses.  But the budget is struggling hard... And Luke is handling the 8ish foot ceiling surprisingly well. So I'm tempted to just plan to keep him in the existing barn for the time being. I'm very torn. It is a risk, but I can't decide how much of one. Attaching potential barn layout if we did go ahead and build stalls... Hmmmm 🤔


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## Alaskan (Dec 10, 2021)

Good question....

And I have no idea as to how high a risk it is.

I am no help... except fantastic barn space!  Even with the short roof.

That reminds me...  barns used to be short...  the areas for livestock tended to have low ceilings...  even for horses.

So....  the risk must be low...  at a guess.

And probably your really low ceiling of only 8 feet-ish means the horse should always be aware of it...  verses a ceiling that is taller.

For example... in my house i have non-standard doorways..  the ones where the top door frame is right at forehead height.. you smack your head... until you memorize that you have to duck.

Doorways where the top door frame is at eye level, you always duck.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 10, 2021)

Those are good points. And he definitely is aware of it. He's a very... Pushy gelding w people and needs put in his place on occasion. He's very careful about raising his head, even when being chastised.  😆 

It's an old dairy barn, so definitely not originally intended for horses... But for the moment the only full sized horses will be my 15.2 gelding, who's 24 and mostly chill, and a ... 27?30? Yo Morab mare who's under 15h. Also pretty chill. So I'm leaning towards using the existing barn at least temporarily.


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## Alaskan (Dec 10, 2021)

Sounds like a good plan.


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## farmerjan (Dec 11, 2021)

8 ft high is plenty of height for all but the tallest horses.  Think about how high the horse trailers are.....


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 13, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> 8 ft high is plenty of height for all but the tallest horses.  Think about how high the horse trailers are.....


I know it's higher than the horse trailer, but I also know if he freaks out over something, he's gonna bang his head.  It's not an ideal permanent solution.  But I think we've decided to go with it for now.  It's the only solution our budget allows.  So now for bargain hunting for lumber 😆


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## Bruce (Dec 14, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> But I think we've decided to go with it for now. It's the only solution our budget allows.


And that is how we all roll!!! If you had Jeff Bezos's money, you would build a palace of a barn for the animals 
Hopefully the horse will figure out not to bang his head on the ceiling.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 19, 2021)

It's been SO BUSY. I go literally from waking till bed. I'm tired. But I love working on the farm things.  Building stalls is underway. I had the wrong driver for drilling holes in our cement floor (or just didn't realize the settings were wrong. Stronger tool borrowed. Holes are going well now) and cut the wrong 4x4s (buying more tomorrow and saving these for the other stall we're building in the spring)... But now all my help, other than the 2yr old (who is admittedly quite dedicated) is gone for the week... Still hoping I can get at least one done alone tomorrow. In the meantime the dandelions (child friendly substitute for any of the d#*! Things you call naughty equines) have the whole barn to roam every night. They are not displeased.

Nights like tonight make it worthwhile though!
It's so gorgeous I didn't even mind a second trip of water thanks to poorly aimed donkey poop...

The moon is bright and Orion is over the barn. It's so cold the snow is sparkling and the air cuts like a knife. May be my favorite kind of (winter) night.


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## Baymule (Dec 19, 2021)

That’s a good kind of tired. Hard work, but so satisfying!


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## Bruce (Dec 22, 2021)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> other than the 2yr old (who is admittedly quite dedicated)


I hope that dedication holds when the now 2 Y/O is old enough to be a real help 

One step at a time, you are getting it done.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Jan 26, 2022)

It's been absolutely insane the last two months.  I've barely had 5 minutes to sit down on any given day.  I don't even know what is keeping us so busy, lol.  Part of it is my sister and her family have moved in with us while we work on evicting the tenants in our apartments so they can move in.  So there's 9 people in the 3 bed, 1.5 bath house.  So the housework NEVER ends.  (never mind the needs of 5 kids, lol) The animals can't be turned out, so we have to hand exercise them regularly.  Luke has a stall but we've given up on building the donkey stall till spring- it is SO COLD.  Frequently hits -20 and -teens (in a roller coaster of course, because it fluctuates up to the +20s regularly, and rains at least once every 2 weeks, so the entire yard turns into an ice field).  We've had to start feeding lunch to make sure our old timers stay warm enough! And my 24yo gelding was shivering so he got himself a set of comfy blankets to keep him warm.  We're keeping a close eye on the donkeys, and so far they're ok. It's crazy! The basement in the barn does stay warmer than outside (most of the time, not when it goes from -20 to +20).  All that to say... I haven't ghosted.  I just don't sit at the PC.  😆  I thought winter was supposed to be the quiet time on the farm! LMAO.



Lunging in the meadow in the fresh, deep snow.



.Halfway through cleaning, but the barn with many haynets to keep them warm and busy. And a walk with baby and momma donk. Thank goodness he won't leave her so he can be loose. The snow was up to his belly. He's not a fan.




Daddy donk looovvvves the kids. He's the most unjack like Jack I've ever seen. He's still getting snipped next month though, lol. Here he is with my 2yo dragging him around by the strap on his halter. 



Momma donk LOVES her face scritches more than food...which is really saying something.




Luke hates when we take the donkeys for a walk without him. He spies on us and calls them. 


Luke's stall got done! Complete with ridiculous wall. But he approves.


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## Bruce (Jan 26, 2022)

Thanks for the great update and pictures!


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## Baymule (Jan 26, 2022)

Yes y’all HAVE been busy! Luke’s stall looks great! Chores take longer in bad weather and y’all are certainly having your share! That’s a lot of people in one house, but it will soon ease up. Thanks for updating us!


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## Alaskan (Jan 26, 2022)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> It's been absolutely insane the last two months.  I've barely had 5 minutes to sit down on any given day.  I don't even know what is keeping us so busy, lol.  Part of it is my sister and her family have moved in with us while we work on evicting the tenants in our apartments so they can move in.  So there's 9 people in the 3 bed, 1.5 bath house.  So the housework NEVER ends.  (never mind the needs of 5 kids, lol) The animals can't be turned out, so we have to hand exercise them regularly.  Luke has a stall but we've given up on building the donkey stall till spring- it is SO COLD.  Frequently hits -20 and -teens (in a roller coaster of course, because it fluctuates up to the +20s regularly, and rains at least once every 2 weeks, so the entire yard turns into an ice field).  We've had to start feeding lunch to make sure our old timers stay warm enough! And my 24yo gelding was shivering so he got himself a set of comfy blankets to keep him warm.  We're keeping a close eye on the donkeys, and so far they're ok. It's crazy! The basement in the barn does stay warmer than outside (most of the time, not when it goes from -20 to +20).  All that to say... I haven't ghosted.  I just don't sit at the PC.  😆  I thought winter was supposed to be the quiet time on the farm! LMAO.View attachment 89096
> Lunging in the meadow in the fresh, deep snow.
> 
> View attachment 89097.Halfway through cleaning, but the barn with many haynets to keep them warm and busy. And a walk with baby and momma donk. Thank goodness he won't leave her so he can be loose. The snow was up to his belly. He's not a fan.
> ...


Wow!  Fun update!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Jun 1, 2022)

Oh my gosh, what a busy spring.

My sister is in her apartment.  Although her flooring still isn't quite done. 😂 My mom and her hubby are here, living in our spare bedroom because their place still isn't done.  Priming is almost done- it took 4 coats thanks to the previous tenants being the worst kind of smokers.  But my oldest kiddo's visitation is finally rearranged so I don't have to spend half my week across the state anymore, just run there 1x a week to pick him up or drop him off.

We got 3 stalls done, so FINALLY everyone can live in a stall.  









And just for fun, a pic of Luke after I did his feet this week.  Note how thoroughly he needs to be tied 

And I got meat rabbits!! I need to build the doe's colony stall, and then pick up a buck (I have one sourced, just need to finish my infastructure)  They aren't the best type-wise, but it's a starting point and even smaller-than-ideal rabbits will feed my family next spring.  We plan to keep the does in their colony, the buck in an oversized cage, and tractor the babies.  I know we'll have high fatalities as we work on breeding for hardiness, but I can live with that.  Using the resources we have on hand is important to me. 






Nancy is the smaller of the does but has much better type.  She also has a great, bold personality.  I like her more than I should, lol.



Sarah Jane is big, MUCH bigger than her sister, but she has hugely long shoulders.  She's also more timid.  I'm hoping my buck can help counteract some of that shoulder and get a good carcass out of the kits.  But time will tell.  Worst case I make do for a while, until I can find better does.  There isn't much nearby unfortunately.

The horse fence is done and they are LOVING it.  They needed to be out SO badly.  






This is the official rolling area, lol.  They all roll here daily.  Luke rolls easily 6-10 times day.  He loves this sandy wallow.

Next up on the list, clearing 5-10 acres for a real garden and real pastures.  Building rabbit tractors and chicken tractors for next spring.  Digging up and seeding the rabbit/chicken garden near the barn so we can grow our own food.  Reseeding the lawn/grass areas with a good mix of forage for the animal tractors.  And maybe, someday, actually unpacking and organizing the house (we finally finish emptying the old place this weekend, but can't really unpack till i finish my mom's place and have that bedroom back for putting away homeschool supplies and what not).

I might be crazy but i'm starting to wonder if it'd be cheaper to keep sheep for the lawn as some people suggested rather than running this lawn mower. Gas is waaaaayyyy too darn expensive.  

My 2 year old is the only one of the kids really getting into the farm life so far, but he is REALLY into it- he had to have his own wheel barrel and fork, and cleans a whole stall by himself. And has to empty his wheelbarrel every day.  He LOVES the barn. So sweet.  I am so going to train a donkey to be his little leadline ride.


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## farmerjan (Jun 1, 2022)

Congrats on all the progress.  You've done alot...


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## Alaskan (Jun 1, 2022)

For keeping the grass mowed
.. see if you can buy 12 or so gosslings... ones big enough to be at least half feathered...  and buy a roll of electric movable poultry net... (or enough net to net the entire lawn).

The geese are great grass mowers... you need to set them out before the grass is tall and overgrown...  but they do a good job of keeping grass mowed.

Then in the fall, as soon as the grass stops growing... butcher them all.  That way, no over winter feed costs.  Feed costs in the summer will be minimal.   Cost of the fence is stretched out over many years.


AND before I forget,  great update!!!! Good looking stalls, pasture, and everything!


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## Baymule (Jun 3, 2022)

Grass fed goose sounds yummy! 

Y’all have made HUGE progress! Congratulations on all the hard work, it’s looking fantastic! Thanks for the update, don’t stay away so long! Love the pint size farmer, how adorable.


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## Bruce (Jun 3, 2022)

Great to hear all the progress!


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## Mini Horses (Jun 4, 2022)

Glad to see the progress!   I'd wondered what had happened to ya -- now I see 😁👍


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 11, 2022)

Another busy few months.  Maybe over the winter i'll get caught up... It was one "thing" after another this summer- sister on vaca, sister QT for covid, then I was down for undiscovered reasons (my body was just like nope, youve done to much. no moving for 2 weeks.), then my house was QT for covid... then sister twisted her ankle... and i then tore my rotator cuff..  😂 It never ends.  My mom's floor is finally laid, but i need to do a few last pieces and the molding, i need to build her bathroom vanities so she has sinks... I'm half way done insulating a big water tank for the winter.  Bought some wood to make a pallet wall around the future feed room to try it out for size. My sister got goats. I got 2 more rabbits.  They're all set up and ready to breed starting february/march, but i still need to build their tractors for grow outs (altho i have enough room to grow inside if it comes down to it).  I have buckeye chicks lined up for spring, and bought an ATV drawn trailer to turn into a mobile, secure coop to use during non-snow months.  (I'm actually quite excited about that build!).  My oldest has his own lawn tractor now, and is over the moon.  And my littlest is in love with his donkey and its the sweetest thing ever. Oh! And the donkey boys got castrated, thank goodness that went well. And momma donk had her tiny baby 2 days before our house warming barbeque!!

The barn repair guy comes out next week so he can schedule our first round of repairs. (after i finally got rock devliered, tried to move it by hand and finally paid a neighbor to tractor it up against the barn for reinforcement.) And I got a forester to arrange to sell our  timber.  We're clearing 8 acres of pine plantation (2 for garden, 8 for pasture) and the rest of the pine plantation will be thinned by 50% to allow hardwoods to grow.  It should hopefully pay for the fences around the 8 acres, the dry lot and if i'm lucky, a round pen. IDK if i dream of a garden fence so easily though. lol

Still no tractor  Sister and BIL ended up buying the house next door instead of a tractor.  It's important but means the tractor got pushed back.  But also, no neighbors between us and the barn, YAY!  My brother decided I need an ATV and took it upon himself to buy and refurbish one.  It'll be here in a couple weeks, very exciting. My hugel kultur bed still isn't set up.  And I'm behind on hoof trimming. And need to choose a couple deep cell batteries & an inverter to power some lights this winter. But we'll get there... eventually.  At least we found a ton of great hay! 

The hay lady was greatly impressed by my hay stacking (this after cramming 80 bales in my 4 horse stock trailer) And I skipped the straps, i guess i was feeling bold lol





The rabbit colony "stalls"- room for 2 colonies w a buck each and 3-5 girls.  Or fewer breeders and let grow outs grow inside.



Here's Phobos the day he was born! Still hadn't even fully sorted nursing out. 






Riding Luke with my littlest helper.  Such a farm boy.




The kids also appreciate a barn full of hay.  possibly not quite as much as me.




The littlest helper with his beloved DaDa Donk




The big kid w his tractor.




I also made Luke a custom, donkey proof reverse-creep feeder so he can have hay outside but the donkey's cant get into it.




The future chicken coop!  I'm gonna make it a bit wider and longer.  It should hold about 12 birds with pleeeennntttyyy of space, or more with a more rigid turn out routine so they aren't ever locked up.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 11, 2022)

I also am SERIOUSLY considering pasture pigs next spring.  I found a great breeder that keeps his full time on 2 strands of electric, and I'd love to rotate them through the freshly cleared area to dig and root and deposit lotsa poop, and maybe even loosen some stumps before I turn it all into proper garden and pasture.  I'm not 100% sure but I definitely 100% want to. 

More pictures:

The littlest helper helped me load up logs for the hugelkultur bed. 



Rocks I had been trying to rake over and along the wall... I don't have a post-tractor picture.  But it was not going well by hand. 



Goats!  They're future mini-nubians.  IDK much about them, not my rodeo, but they seem nice enough.



Here's the water tank.  Need to do 2 more sides and the top, then I'm going to plastic wrap the insulation to the tank (thus the frame to keep it from getting compressed), and i want to find the aluminum insulating blankets for a final layer? But I haven't been able to figure out exactly how to go about that yet. Also.. a heater... (which shouldnt be needed till january at the earliest 🤞)



Bunnies in their colony, the girls enjoy the boxes, even the raised one.  I want to put dirt around them at some point so they can dig.  But it'll do for now. 




The littlest helper (again. he's always in the barn!) this time riding his donk with his shnazzy new saddle.  Unfortunately he won't be riding dada for long, hes just too little for that.


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## Ridgetop (Nov 11, 2022)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> Goats! They're future mini-nubians. IDK much about them, not my rodeo, but they seem nice enough.


Welcome!!!  But sadly those goats are not Nubians.  More like Swiss breed crosses, and the gray and white have a lot of Toggenburg in them.  Togg milk is nasty tasting.  When buying house milkers, always try to taste the milk.  However, you can eat goasts - even better tasting than lamb.  By breeding them with a meat breed they will give you freezers full of meat.

Love the 3 level barn!!!  Perfect for livestock, hay storage, winter play space for the children, etc.  Great place!  and all the family living close - cousins will have a ball together all the time!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 11, 2022)

Ridgetop said:


> Welcome!!!  But sadly those goats are not Nubians.  More like Swiss breed crosses, and the gray and white have a lot of Toggenburg in them.  Togg milk is nasty tasting.  When buying house milkers, always try to taste the milk.  However, you can eat goasts - even better tasting than lamb.  By breeding them with a meat breed they will give you freezers full of meat.
> 
> Love the 3 level barn!!!  Perfect for livestock, hay storage, winter play space for the children, etc.  Great place!  and all the family living close - cousins will have a ball together all the time!


Not nubians.  MINI nubians- nigerian/nubian crossed.  There's an adult doe there thats supposedly nigerian, bred to a nubian to produce 2 of the others (definitely her kids, bought as a trio when they were still nursing), the third (white one) is a nigerian/nubian cross as well.  Supposedly.  But they're QUITE small, so even if the other half isn't nubian, I'm pretty sure they're definitely part nigerian. But not my rodeo, or my knowledge area.  I'm much more into my chicken and rabbit projects   😁

I also adore the barn.  It was a HUGE selling point of the property. It's amazing.  I can't wait till its all repaired.


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## Baymule (Nov 11, 2022)

Love all the pictures! Y’all have been working hard. Twisted ankle, Covid and torn rotator cuff. Y’all stop beating up on yourselves! LOLGlad y’all are better and making progress on the farm. That littlest helper is a cutie!


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## Bruce (Nov 12, 2022)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> But it was not going well by hand.


Not surprising! Sometimes you just gotta have MORE POWER!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 17, 2022)

The lumber company is here clearing our pasture this week! I love this property and our patch of woods so much, it's very bittersweet watching them stack ALL THOSE TREES.  But I know it will leave me with an amazing expanse of pasture.  And I am going to grow new trees and bushes and what not.  But gosh.  It is a little heart rending to watch them go. 

But come spring... I can start fencing and stump removal and it's gonna be SO NICE.

Forest pre-thinning/clearing


The beginnings of the 10 acres cleared


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 18, 2022)

We got 45.5" of snow in the lazt not even 24 hours.... They're calling for another foot before it stops. It's.... Insane. We spent all day snow blowing. 


That is 4ft netting next to the sled. Early this afternoon.



Note that the bottom rungs of the gate are buried. View from the manure pile.

I need to get better pictures of the insane amount of snow tomorrow. These are both from late morning/early afternoon before the last 2+ feet dropped


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## farmerjan (Nov 18, 2022)

Been listening to the weather reports on it... you guys are really getting slammed.... So darned early in the season.... everyone liked it to get a little cold for Thanksgiving, for hunting and all... This is nuts... One more reason that I am glad that at this "old age", that I am further south so don't get snows like that very often.....
Stay safe.... so GLAD that you got most things in the barn done already....


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## Mini Horses (Nov 18, 2022)

Just WOW!!!    not my kinda weather.  NOT!

Looks real pretty and clean in the pic though. 🥶🥶


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## Baymule (Nov 18, 2022)

I’m real happy with 103F degrees in summer! That’s why we have air conditioning. I can’t even imagine snow like that!


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## Ridgetop (Nov 19, 2022)

Hopefully the lumber company paid you for the trees.  That $$$ can do some stump removal and fencing.


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## Bruce (Nov 19, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> that I am further south so don't get snows like that very often


It isn't just latitude, being at the east end of Lake Ontario Watertown gets slammed regularly. Just not THIS bad! The mother of a friend at work (back when I worked) lives (lived?) in Watertown. I heard about her snow dumps often. He had a picture one winter of snow up to the bottom of the second story windows. 

I live 150 miles northeast of @Thefarmofdreams. We never get snow like that even though we are on the east side of Lake Champlain. It is a lot smaller and doesn't have the "fetch" of the Great Lakes. DW's brother and sister-in-law live on the MA/NH border 150 miles SSE of us. They get more snow than we do, annoys DW .


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## farmerjan (Nov 20, 2022)

I realize that those lake effect snows are really something.  My brother has his fishing boat up on Lake Ontario (when it is in the water).... and he gets some pretty good snows up there...

We get our share of snow some years here in Va... about 10-12 years ago, it started snowing the weekend before Christmas eve, and we never saw bare ground until late March but that is unusual.  Most were 12-18 inch snows...
 A year or 2 after I moved here, maybe 1982, we had 2 back to back snowstorms of a total of over 35 inches in 3 days... didn't plow the back road I lived on for 4 days... I rode my horse from the fence behind the house out to the pole barn that was about .3 mile out back of the property... she loved the snow, I was alot younger and could ride her bareback, and she would come to a whistle.... luckily I had hay in the loft area,  and grain out there in a "stall" they couldn't get into... I wasn't milking but had some beef cows... and they were able to use part of the pole barn for shelter.... and for 2 days I rode her back and forth and made a path so I could walk it if I had to.  That was when all the joints were in MUCH better shape...

I was talking about being this much further south than when I was in CT. 600 miles....although we had some years of more snow than they did where my parents and sister were in SE Conn.   And they have had more snow in NC in the mountains than we have had here,  several times in the last few years... bands that just go straight east rather than work their way up to the northeast... and the cold settling down there rather than covering the area to the north where we are...... It has been weird... 

No thank you to the snow they have in the parts of NY that get the lake effect snow... I am too old to want to deal with it anymore....


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## farmerjan (Nov 21, 2022)

How much total snow did you wind up with???


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 23, 2022)

Ridgetop said:


> Hopefully the lumber company paid you for the trees.  That $$$ can do some stump removal and fencing.


We are!  We will be getting a tractor first, and hopefully some of the fencing too! 


We got 70ish inches. It was INSANE. My 5' fence was completely buried... And pretty much everything else. My brother and husband shovelled all afternoon Friday, all day Saturday and bro didn't get to leave for home till 7pm!! Hubby shoveled all day Sunday, and Monday. and unburied my van finally on Tuesday. (I was sick with a nasty virus, didn't do anything after I came in Friday. Too dizzy. Terrible timing) Tomorrow we have to dig around the buildings so we can clear roofs.  And widen our barn paths, and redo a section that got dumped on by a roof so we can empty manure sleds. If I can get paths wide enough, 🤞 I can get the new 3wheeler bro brought me out to pull sleds instead of dragging them myself. so basically, no where near done with this crazy freaking snow storm. Even long term locals are freaking out. We usually get 40" a year. We got 70 in barely over 24hrs. Smh.

Oh and it all settled HARD and has melted a bit in top (lots of high 30s this week. Sob.) And the heavy, settling snow tore down my fence as it settled. So no more turn out for horses this year. Sigh. I JUST put that fence up... Not even 6 months ago.😭

So now I need to research snow proof fence??? Will this kind of snow also rip apart a no climb fence? What kind of electric wouldn't just get stripped away??

On the plus side, the loggers continue to fly thru our woods, the pasture is pretty much empty!


thats my minivan under there...


Note more than 5ft of t post buried.



I'm sitting on our 4ft gate bc it's so buried that I couldn't open it.  Brother snowblowing the path (for the 3rd time)



My poor destroyed fence.  So much work.








My pasture! You can see they left me all the small hardwoods to pick thru and thin by hand for silvopasture. And an acre for living barn (I ended up asking them to cut it down to 1/2 acres).  It's going to be so nice. Can't wait.




The kids got to see the feller buncher up close while I met with the Forester.


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## farmerjan (Nov 23, 2022)

HOLY COW !!!!!! That is unbelievable.... The best thing is that you are about 30-40 years younger than me and can deal with it.... Except that a tractor with a bucket loader would have been nice to at least get some scooped out of the way.  
BLESS YOU and your family for dealing with it.  

Woven wire, like the no climb, should not suffer from alot of  problems with the snow.... IF it is put up right and stretched tight. I would be a little more inclined to use sheep and goat wire, 4x4" holes so that snow will blow through it better.  The no climb is 2x4" and will be a bit more of a barrier.... but I think that you need to talk to whomever you are going to have build it.  It has to be stretched tight and right, with proper brace posts, or it will not hold up.  I understand that that is twice what the area normally would get.... but now you know what you need to be prepared for... Do not skimp on putting it up.... or you will be doing it over again.....

Electric is not made for snow.  Most people here take theirs down for winter, and we normally get snow in 6-10 inch spurts... a couple a year if that normally lately.  You will not be able to use the electric in most winters... especially since you are in a snow belt area from the lake effect.  Okay for summer/cross fencing for grazing etc... it will stretch it out and break it... unless you go to high tensile wire... it will stretch and "bounce back".... it stretches if something weighs it down...supposed to bounce back.


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## farmerjan (Nov 23, 2022)

If possible, you need a high tensile woven wire of some sort... it will give a bit better with the kind of winters you are dealing with. There is both smooth hi-tensile that you HAVE to electrify... like barbed wire without the barbs... and a high tensile  type of field fencing/woven wire that has a little more give to it.  With all the snow there, I would also err on the side of more posts than fewer... but if there is a professional fence builder there, you need to make sure that they build it for winters like that.  Most high tensile woven wire fencing here calls for posts every 12-16-20 feet... because of it stretching so good... I would not want the posts there to be more than 10-12 feet apart... almost like the normal spacing here (we do 8 ft so we can run a board around the top if we need to).... sometimes we have to use a T-post inbetween wood posts... and some places we do 1 wood post to every 2-4 T-posts...but they are still spaced 8 ft unless we are having to deal with some bad rocky ledge...


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 24, 2022)

We are definitely planning to fence it ourselves 😅 budget is very limited. I don't think the 4x4 would be safe for the horses. So I think we have to stick with the smaller holes.

I knew we couldn't use the electric once snow got deep, but I didn't expect to have to remove the wires every winter 😱. Ugh.

Why do you say more wood posts and less t posts? Do they hold better? I love the look of the fences with boards across the top but the thought of the cost for 8 acres is terrifying. 

Definitely a tractor next year. We can't do this again.


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## Baymule (Nov 24, 2022)

Sitting down here in east Texas where in February 2021 we had a freak winter storm, 3 ice storms, 10” of snow and -6F temperatures. You might laugh, but our normal snow is 2”-3” and THAT shuts everything down because we have no equipment to deal with it. It usually melts and is gone by day 3. Our freak winter storm lasted nearly 2 weeks and stopped the whole state. Nothing near like what you just had, but I get the idea. 

I’m so sorry for the fence damage, I know the hard work that went into that. Here we put in a stout wood post as every 10th post. We call them a “dead man” post. It’s an 8’ post, 3’ in the ground. It’s 6” diameter or bigger, not smaller. For you, I’d suggest a dead man post every 4th post and posts spaced no more than 8’ apart, maybe 6’ spacing. 

We fenced our 8 acres in Lindale in 2”x4” non climb wire. It’s hard to get a good tight stretch on. We used our 23 horse Kubota tractor, with front end loader, and a come along. We actually got the wire so tight that it dragged the tractor. And THAT turned out to not be tight enough. It’s hard wire to work with. 

Time has passed. I’m widowed, sold the farm, moved to Trinity county, bought 25 acres with a 22 year old double wide. This place features run down barbed wire fences covered with 40 years of  overgrown brush, trees, briar vines, an unholy mess. I no sooner got moved in with my sheep and dogs, that I went and had knee replacement surgery, 2 months ago now. I’m chomping at the bit to get started! 

I will not use the 2”x4” wire again. Sure, the horses couldn’t stick a hoof in it, but they could paw at it and still managed to tear up sections of it. I’ll be using the 4”x4” wire. I’ll get horses again some day and I think the 4” wire will pose them no harm. They still can’t stick their stupid foot through a 4” hole. 

It is economically advantageous to use the 4”c4” wire over the non climb. Non climb comes in 100’ and 200’ rolls. The 4” sheep and goat wire comes in 330’ rolls. I get more bank for my buck. $$$

I made a fence journal when we built our non climb fence. I’m going to make a fence journal for my new place. I suggest you do the same, it is educational for others, it puts all your fencing efforts in one place and it’s fun to “read back” and see what you did right/wrong. Take lots of pictures! 

I had help putting up 2 long stretches of the 4”x4” wire. @farmerjan advised putting a H brace and stretching on each end, but I think a double H brace would be better. I know one thing, I WON’T use non climb again! 

I’m so sorry the snow storm did so much damage. Maybe it’s a good thing, it’s has shown the weak points and now you know that you need to make your fences stronger. You may never see a snow like this again in your lifetime but you sure will be prepared if you do.


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## SageHill (Nov 24, 2022)

HOLY MOLY!!! That's a blankety blanket of snow. YIKES. 
So sorry about your fence - that hurts.
Out here I have 2x4 woven no-climb. Pulled super tight using a bobcat, top and bottom wires and metal bars as well, extra fence posts metal tube 3 in? set in concrete and cross braced, the rest are T-posts. Though we don't get snow ever - I see it only on the mountaintops when it happens (very pretty when framed in palm trees).


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## farmerjan (Nov 24, 2022)

We used to fence our horses in with 4-6 strands of barbed wire and they were fine.  But horse people nowadays have a heart attack if you mention it.  The one thing they don't do with single strands of wire, like barbed wire, is "walk it down" like they do with woven wire... be it 2x4, 4x4 , or the standard 6" "field fence"  that is pretty much standard on most cattle farms here.  That is what we use for all the fences for the cattle, but I am going to use 4x4 at the house to help to keep the chickens in which the 6" stays will not do as good.  It also helps to keep out more predators... coyotes and foxes don't "slip through" 4" stays like they can on 6" stays. 

Wood posts aren't going to bend from heavy snow weight as much as a steel T-post will.  The reason we use mostly wooden is for the ability to put a board on the top if we need to.  We don't do that out in long stretches of fencing along the woods and such.  But we still like the strength and stability of wood posts.  You cannot pull against T-posts like you can against a wood post... handy also for repairing a stretch of fence that say a tree falls on.  

And regardless of what you fence with, you are going to need a strand of wire that you can electrify along the top to keep the horses from reaching over.... they will push the woven wire over and down with reaching;  horses just do that.  I had appaloosas for years and someone was always reaching... I liked the barbed wire... they were alot less pushy to reach across it. 
We run a strand of barbed wire along the top of all woven wire fences to help discourage the cows from reaching over... and some places it is put up with insulators so it can be electrified.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 24, 2022)

Thanks for all the feedback! 
I DEFINITELY plan on electrifying the fence regardless of what type of woven wire is behind the electric. I don't trust anything to stay in without electric   Until this storm, they were in JUST electric (although its FIVE strands, closely spaced and BITEY).  So we will definitely be using both.  I'll definitely plan for a lot of extra wood posts in the perimeter fence... maybe we will just do all wood.  It's already gonna take forever to get it done. What's an extra year of saving at this point?  

We're going to be getting a 50hp tractor with bucket and 3 point... probably from the 70s-80s given our price range.  I wonder if it would have more luck tightening the fence, or if I need to reconsider the no climb.  Hmm. 

Looking at the failed fence... I'm not sure if having high tensile would've helped.  It's all the insulators that have failed.  Snapped off, all of them.  And theyre the "good" ones from premier 1 too.  Are high tensile insulators stronger, or should I plan on de-stringing the fence if we have a nasty storm forecasted?  At least future fences will have a physical component as well as the electric, so taking the wire down won't completely remove the fence.

@Baymule I've read your fence journal and am on a second read through before we start fencing, lol.  There's a lot of good info in there.  I didn't realize you still didn't have it tight enough when all was said and done though! 

I spent the morning outside, but now the toddler needs a break.  I got the path from the house to the barn wide enough for my 3 wheeler.  And the path from the fence to the manure area.... but the path from the barn to the fence is still too narrow, and the manure area doesn't go far enough off the path yet.... slow progress.  Lunch, and then I have to go help scrape alllllllll this snow off the roofs... it is supposed to start raining tomorrow... 🤞my buildings standing.... sigh.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 24, 2022)

It's 50*.  It's gonna pour all day tomorrow.  💩💩💩💩


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## murphysranch (Nov 24, 2022)

Having gone to High School in Rochester NY, back in the early 70's, I remember more about the mess of old snow. And the melting...............................................................


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 24, 2022)

murphysranch said:


> Having gone to High School in Rochester NY, back in the early 70's, I remember more about the mess of old snow. And the melting...............................................................


Yeaaaaaaa. We're desperately hoping for a very slow thaw this year. Idk how we're gonna keep water out of the buildings if it thaws too fast.


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## Baymule (Nov 24, 2022)

Wow. First slammed by snow, now rain. I hope your buildings don’t flood.


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## Mini Horses (Nov 25, 2022)

That amount of snow and livestock??   Doesn't work well.😫


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 25, 2022)

Mini Horses said:


> That amount of snow and livestock??   Doesn't work well.😫


Not at all.  They're toasty warm in the barn but bound to get stir crazy soon.


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## farmerjan (Nov 26, 2022)

Years ago, in Vermont and NH and Maine, and I am sure in NY, big barns were built for the winter/cold weather... Big lofts stored tons of hay for animal feed for the winter. Second floor center aisles were for feed/grain and some machinery storage.  The bottom floor was for the animals... and the cows were all in stanchions.  There were gutters behind the cows and they were cleaned out daily.  
But what I am getting at... is the farmhouse was attached to all the different sheds/barns/pens for the winter. So the farmer did not have to go outside in the cold miserable weather;  the animals did not go out to suffer through the cold and snow and ice.  The farmer did not get lost in snowstorms/blizzards between the house and the different sheds.  
My extended family in VT had a dairy... The farm house had a wood shed attached to the house, the winters' wood was stored in there and kept dry and accessible. From there they went into a repair shop/storage type small shed... There was a door on the back of that for the old outhouse..(🥶 )...went through the shop into an attached corn crib for ear corn.....and through another shed had the chickens in part of it... all the meat birds had been killed for the winter and only the layers and the roosters for fertile eggs were kept and fed through the winter.... then there was the BIG BARN... with the dairy cattle in the stanchions, the milk house closest to the house and then the cows and at the end, sorta off into an L were the calf pens but still under the big barn roof... and there was one good sized pen with the 2 sows and a smaller pen with the boar hog.  They actually had an L built out off the big barn for the hogs but if it was real cold, they brought them inside.... The hay in the mow, the cattle in the barn with the doors closed kept it in the 40's and above to where the water did not hardly freeze.... The hogs were in deep bedding... they weren't cleaned out until a thaw and they were able to spread cow manure and the part where the hogs did their manure was partially cleaned out, to keep it a little cleaner.  But the chickens were not cleaned until spring, as well as alot of manure from the cows that was stored outside in a "manure pile", and whatever the hogs etc made... as it was spread in the spring for fertilizer for the fields.
The floor directly above the cows was for hay storage on the sides and an aisle in the center for whatever they needed to get inside.  Some barns had a 3rd floor  for the hay fork on the hay trolley that ran the length of the barn center beam, with a big door at one end that you could lift the hay up and then it could travel to where you needed it and it got forked to where you needed it.  
There was alot of handwork and forking, shoveling back in the day....


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## Baymule (Nov 26, 2022)

Maybe lots of hard work, but genius in design and layout. Farmers had to work within the weather and elements and it sounds to me that they did a darn good job of it.


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## Bruce (Nov 26, 2022)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> I wonder if it would have more luck tightening the fence


DO NOT tighten the fence by pulling with the tractor.

You can try using the tractor as an anchor for the come alongs. A 50 HP might weigh enough to not get dragged like Bay's little tractor. 

My one long run is 300' and has a 12' gate in it so H brace at one corner, H brace on the hinge side of the gate, floating brace on the catch side (LOTS OF BIG ROCKS here!! I dug 5 holes to put in 3 posts for that gate) and (sadly due to ledge) a floating brace at the other end and that post had to have some concrete due to the high ledge. The floating braces work OK but you need a big flat stone for the brace to set on and they don't work as well in my clay as they probably do in Texas where Greybeard (our BYH fence tutor while he was here) built fence.

I properly attached the fence on both ends (do NOT pull the fence around a corner post, attach it as if the fence wasn't changing direction) then attached the stretchers in the fence in the gate gap and pulled them together with the come alongs. The 330' roll of fence was uncut at this point. When tight, I stapled all the fence wires to both H brace posts and the latch post. The staple alone will not necessarily (and likely won't) keep it from sliding back if it isn't tied back to the fence before the come along tension is released.

Then I cut one wire at a time, wrapped it around the gate post and tied back to the fence, then the next wire. Note that to keep tension on the fence on both sides of the gate, the first wire I cut and wrapped on the hinge side post was followed by the same wire on the latch side post. IIRC, I started with the wire in the middle of the fence then the next one up, the next one below, alternating upper and lower to keep the tension even.

Between the corners and the gate posts the fence is held by T-posts approximately (rock dependent) 10' apart. Wood top pieces are a lot harder to do when you can't put wood posts exactly spaced to fit dimensional lumber. My fence is 4' high with a hot wire a few inches above the woven roll fence and a ground wire a few inches above that. My issue is keeping predators out, the 2 alpacas don't put pressure on a fence like horses, goats or cattle will. In fact the crap fence that was here before I built the real fence kept them in even though they could have walked it down without effort.

As for something to anchor for stretching, I saw a video where they put a temporary 3rd post beyond the H braces, with a horizontal pole to the H brace, and anchored to that. But they didn't have a ****load of rocks and ledge to deal with. Nice soft soil easily drilled with a 3 point auger. Once the fence was tied off, they pulled the temporary post and brace pole. A couple of extra holes was nothing for them.



Thefarmofdreams said:


> Are high tensile insulators stronger, or should I plan on de-stringing the fence if we have a nasty storm forecasted?


Probably not enough to deal with the snow load you had. 
Yes


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## Baymule (Nov 26, 2022)

My little tractor made a good dead weight to hitch the come along to. LOL. Just not heavy enough to keep from getting dragged. 
Son has an OLD 75 HP Massey Ferguson that I plan on using to help get the fence done here. I don’t know how to run it yet, but knee is healing up and I’ll learn. Kawasaki mule is getting an engine overhaul and it will be ready for work when I’m ready!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 27, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> Years ago, in Vermont and NH and Maine, and I am sure in NY, big barns were built for the winter/cold weather... Big lofts stored tons of hay for animal feed for the winter. Second floor center aisles were for feed/grain and some machinery storage.  The bottom floor was for the animals... and the cows were all in stanchions.  There were gutters behind the cows and they were cleaned out daily.


You are describing my barn! I'ts a big part of why I bought this property.  (i do not have the attached house and courtyard set up of old though.  I wish. Just the barn almost 100yards from the house, but she's a beauty!)  The horses and goats and rabbits are in the old dairy/basement.  Then my hay is upstairs.  And the third level/hay loft is currently empty.  I need a hay elevator before I can use it.  It even still has the big forks for emptying unbaled wagons of hay.  (i sometimes wonder about the possibility of getting a wagon and old-fashioned hay-ing our pastures.  Not sure it'd be worth the effort though.)



Bruce said:


> DO NOT tighten the fence by pulling with the tractor.
> 
> Then I cut one wire at a time, wrapped it around the gate post and tied back to the fence, then the next wire. Note that to keep tension on the fence on both sides of the gate, the first wire I cut and wrapped on the hinge side post was followed by the same wire on the latch side post. IIRC, I started with the wire in the middle of the fence then the next one up, the next one below, alternating upper and lower to keep the tension even.
> 
> As for something to anchor for stretching, I saw a video where they put a temporary 3rd post beyond the H braces, with a horizontal pole to the H brace, and anchored to that.


Thank you for this!! I definitely won't use the tractor then lol.  The temporary 3rd post will probably be our best bet- we have VERY sandy soil and not an immense amount of rocks.  And I think H braces instead of floating. Again, not a lot of rocks.  I don't understand the bit about "followed by the same wire on the latch side"?  I thought you anchor one end, stretch, and then wrap that one end around the post one wire at a time?

My poor qh is already getting stir crazy.  He KNOWS its nice out (still 50* here) and he can't fathom why I'm not putting him out.  Poor guy.  Hopefully next year at least the dry lot will be done in woven wire so he can go out in the snow.  And this winter the barn is full, so he can't just roam the basement freely like he did last year.


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## farmerjan (Nov 27, 2022)

Take the qh out on a lounge line... It will wear him out ploughing through all that snow.  And it will at least give him some change of scenery.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Nov 27, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> Take the qh out on a lounge line... It will wear him out ploughing through all that snow.  And it will at least give him some change of scenery.


oh definitely.  And I think enough has melted that we can possibly plough through some trails.  Ought to wear him out. As much as that's possible with this crazy monster. (he's 25 going on 2, i swear.  I can't wait for him to be able to be at pasture as much as possible.).  But what ever virus I had last week has come back... so i'm housebound again.  Someday... everyone on the property will be both uninjured AND healthy.


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## Bruce (Nov 29, 2022)

Thefarmofdreams said:


> I don't understand the bit about "followed by the same wire on the latch side"? I thought you anchor one end, stretch, and then wrap that one end around the post one wire at a time?


I tied off the unrolled fence to the 2 ends of the west fence line and attached the two stretchers in the fence in the  gate opening without cutting the fence in two pieces, the extra ~ 30 feet of fence was bowed out at the gate opening. The come alongs were attached between both stretchers so the tension was on both north and south sections simultaneously. 

In effect the south corner post was the anchor point for the section of fence north of the gate opening and vice versa. Thus I had to cut and attach the same horizontal wire on each gate post alternately so both north and south sections would maintain full tension. If I did all the wires on one post (the hinge post for example), the tension on the fence on the other side of the gate could be lost at least to some degree . It would still be held by the staples on the latch post but as I said, the staples won't necessarily hold tension, the wire can slide under the staple as there is a LOT of tension. I suppose if one was careful to put the 2" staples in diagonally across the horizontal and vertical wire on the post it might hold tension. I think generally they are put in over the horizontal wires just to keep the fence from moving vertically on the post.

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures which would make this SO much easier to explain.

A further note, some people use "twitch sticks" to tighten the brace wires in the H braces. I spent the money to get ratchets. Note that it would have been better to NOT put the first one right in the center  This one is on a hinge side brace so it has to be wired in both directions. The one high on the left post keeps the gate from pulling the post to the left. The other one keeps the tensioned fence from pulling the post to the right. If this was the latch side, the first wire would not be needed.






And since I'm blathering on .... gates come with bolt hooks that screw into the post. I tossed those and bought the threaded bolt hooks that go completely through the post with a washer and nut on both sides of the post. You can micro adjust them rather than "one full turn" of the hook. And since things DO move (at least here they do) the gate can be adjusted over time without taking it off, turning one or both hooks one full turn, then putting the gate back on.


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## Bruce (Nov 29, 2022)

Another detail. I ran the hotwire under the gates in PVC pipe. It is wire that CAN be buried bare but I figured it was safer to have it better protected. I ran the wire through the fittings before gluing them together, pushing that thick wire around corners isn't so easy.

The T post is there because "oops", the posts are a bit too far apart, plenty of room for a fox to walk through.



 
I also put a switch in the hot wire so I could turn off the south half without having to go to the far north end of the barn to turn the charger off, deal with the issue (often a slug zapping on a rainy night (I do let it spark that lovely blue flash until morning  )) then go turn the charger back on. And of course it is necessary to pinpoint the problem on the south end before walking the 100 yards to the charger to turn it off so the switch at the gate cuts the distance travelled substantially.





Those "ring" ends are from Premier 1, I have had a number of the lighter weight ones from Zareba break


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## Baymule (Nov 29, 2022)

Absolutely the full threaded bolts that go all the way through the post with nuts and washers on both sides-those are the best as @Bruce explained. 

I like the wrachet idea for the brace wires. Got a close up picture?


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## Bruce (Nov 29, 2022)

They are quite standard, I got them at Tractor Supply



TS Link

Connect the brace wire to the left end, run it around the posts ( I did 2 loops) then thread through the hole in the ratchet wheel.


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## Baymule (Nov 30, 2022)

Bruce said:


> They are quite standard, I got them at Tractor Supply
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 4, 2022)

Bruce said:


> They are quite standard, I got them at Tractor Supply


Oh goodness, all of that is SO helpful! Thank you.  I understand now that you were trying to keep the tension and split the taught wire down the middle without either end loosening.  Got it.  I was imagining a run of fence and only the end.  😁 
And i definitely plan on the better bolts.  We've got a TON of gates on our tiny pen currently bc i had to be able to get trucks all around the barn- double gates front and rear, a man gate, and 2  gates inside that allow me to use one end of the barn as a run in shed.  So I'll be reusing a bunch of them.  (Since I have to tear down the pen anyways thanks to that stupid snow) And one came with the good bolts, I may just buy all good-bolt style gates going forwards.  And the self-latching gates, for sure.  I have too many kids that would definitely not close things proper. 

We've had a busy couple of days.  Got a ton of pallets in from the local duty free (finallllyyy free ones) to put hay on in the basement, bc i've got too much upstairs.  The floor is sagging much more quickly.  But, even though it'll be a pain to move it all, it is going to keep things SO WARM when the basement has animals AND wall-to-wall hay bales. Darn water tank still isnt insulate.  Nor are the lights up.  I'll get there eventually.... 😅  I did get the whole posse out for individual walks (the cranky old man that lets my baby walk him managed to kick me while he was trying to buck and kick and cavort at the end of his lead.  You'd never know he has all that spunk!) I need to get Luke out for a good ride, almost all the snow is gone and i know he's dying for the exercise, and I'm ITCHING to go see my pasture.


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 7, 2022)

I couldn't stand it anymore.  The tree machinery is all way back so I went out and explored the garden and pasture. 😍😍😍😍

Here's my (future) garden and dry lot. 



And a bunch from the silvopasture and living barn

This soil is going to be so rich when all this wood breaks down.


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## Baymule (Dec 7, 2022)

That soil looks rich now!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 7, 2022)

Baymule said:


> That soil looks rich now!


It is really nice imo but I'm not expert. Super well drained sandy loam that , until this month, was pine plantation


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## farmerjan (Dec 7, 2022)

Just make sure you do a PH test.  Although pine needles are a bit acidic, they say they do not add as much acidity to the soil as the soil is already acidic and that is where pines prefer to grow... low PH and well drained soils. It might be too acidic for some of the vegetable garden plants.  Lime can fix that....and the pine needles etc.,  can continue to add organic matter....


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 7, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> Just make sure you do a PH test.  Although pine needles are a bit acidic, they say they do not add as much acidity to the soil as the soil is already acidic and that is where pines prefer to grow... low PH and well drained soils. It might be too acidic for some of the vegetable garden plants.  Lime can fix that....and the pine needles etc.,  can continue to add organic matter....


Good to know! I'm expecting to do a lot of amending in the garden area. I just need my tractor (hopefully these trees are buying me one!) so I can manage my manure pile for better composition. Then I'll have lots of beautiful soil. 😁

I definitely am hoping to get my local cornell office to help me figure out the fine details on the silvopasture, living barn and garden soil. 😁

Edit bc I'm bad at words. Said pasture, meant garden


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## SageHill (Dec 8, 2022)

Definitely check the soil - to a full on test - even one you can do yourself. It'll be worth the time and effort. When I put in raised beds they brought in dirt- looked great, the guys that had it brought in said it was the best. Fat Chance. Tried growing - things just survived. Did a soil test and the nitrogen level wasn't even up to minimum. Wasted effort and time. Spent a year amending and replacing.


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## Finnie (Dec 8, 2022)

If your soil tests acidic, grow blueberries!


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 18, 2022)

Phew! What a busy week. I've gotten a ton done the past few days and it feels SO GOOD. I hate when I'm busy all day but never check off anything I need to do.

But I've gotten half the hay moved down stairs in the barn. I gave up on that darn water tank, but I figured out a better plan to do, if I ever get to the bottom of the to do list, or for next year. I figured out how to fix our back door (the door jamb is the only place to mount the fence, so the door wasn't closing right, so the barn was NOT staying warm at all.). And today we fixed the fence so the horses can get out.  Half the insulators are very questionable, but the fence is up.

Here's a link to our farm page with the video. I'd just embed it but it was on my sister's phone so I don't have it. Video of horses enjoying snow

And our barn slowly filling with hay. It's gonna be so toasty down there once it's full 🤣

The littlest helper cleans stalls nearly independently now.  All I did in this stall is unbury the pee spot! He's so big. 

Also. This horse is ridiculous.  He's standing RIGHT over the littlest helper while he scoops ice out of his barrel, making the most ridiculous faces.  Thought sure he was just so eager for water...... NOPE! He just really enjoys trolling small children.   🙄



Finally... I can't get enough of this pasture.  I can't wait to put up the dry lot in the spring. I think I'm going to put it cross ways in the middle of the north side of the pasture... That way it'll just about reach each of the main cross fenced areas for the horses. (Everyone else will be in smaller mobile nets for intensive grazing) (in the map, green is garden, just south of the house, purple is my pasture, orange are potential dry lots and blue is my wet area. The barn is the white roofed bit just north east of the blue.  My cousin is coming in the spring to help me figure out drainage to keep the dry lot usable.  I foresee a ditch and a pond.) I can't wait for everyone to live outside all summer! (And maybe even some spring and fall!)


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## Bruce (Dec 20, 2022)

Loved watching the equines play in the snow


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## Thefarmofdreams (Dec 23, 2022)

I hope everyone is surviving this blizzard well! It is just hitting us. It was kind enough to start before I emptied the manure and disconnected the fence (I'm hoping if it isn't tensioned, it doesn't snap all the connectors). But everyone is cozy inside now.

Luke the crazy qh was very happy to be outside before the storm, unlike normal, rational herd animals, he felt no need to get amped up and find shelter ahead of the storm. Instead he made sure to thoroughly soak himself rolling in wet snow and then refused to come in until the last possible moment. I think he knew it was the last turn out for a while.  His posse on the other hand had to forced out of the barn. 🤣



But now everyone is set up and my water tanks are full in the barn. Just had to bring hot water for melting when I go out. And everyone is bedded down nice and deep too.  

My youngest bunny recently reached maturity, and the hormones kicked in HARD. She nests all the time, pulls fur, and constantly tries to boss the other girls. It's hilarious. (No chance of breeding, I'd know if someone introduced them bc theyd never catch them again to separate them.) 


BYH doesn't like my videos... So not to self plug, but just out of laziness re finding somewhere else to host them... There's a video of the bunny nesting (face full of hay!) going up on FB tomorrow and a bunch of the storm already up. 😅 https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100079990582480&mibextid=ZbWKwL


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## Bruce (Dec 23, 2022)

BYC doesn't host videos. I post mine on YouTube.


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