# Hay Baler



## OSUman (Oct 31, 2010)

Hi I was wondering if there are hay balers that work without the aid of a tractor or electricity.  I want to have a completely sustainable farm and I am wondering if there is a hay baler that could be hooked up to horses and still bale hay.

Thanks


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## goodhors (Nov 1, 2010)

You might want to check with the Amish.  They do a lot things with horses and MODIFIED equipment.

I saw a pair of drafts pulling a small round baler behind a forecart this summer.  Horses coming down the road at a BIG trot, baler behind.  Obviously the baler was not working with gears, looked like all the other small round balers I have seen!  So my supposition would be that baler has a small motor mounted for powering it.  These types of balers, or the method of adapting motors to work them, would probably be general knowledge in Amish communities.  I saw this baler just north of Sturgis Michigan along M-66.  This is a growing Amish area.

Amish rules for equipment, tools, seem to vary by the locale they are in, so some places have things others can't use. 

There is a lot of new designs that the Amish have developed to work with horse power, including treadmills that power batteries, hay elevators, pumps.  Then the stored battery power will run home appliances like washers and mixers for baked goods, so their homes have the "luxuries" we take for granted.  All powered by the horse.

There is a magazine with articles about the yearly gathering in Ohio that displays the new machinery.  Can't remember the name at the moment, but magazine is available at my local TSC store.  May be a quarterly magazine.  Possibly Rural Heritage?  I was amazed at the variety of things the treadmills could "power up" using a single light horse, not even drafts.


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## jodief100 (Nov 1, 2010)

I have a friend with a farm that uses draft horses for most of her farm work.  She is not Amish, just prefers it that way.   I don't know if she has a hay baler or not... I will ask her.


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## patandchickens (Nov 1, 2010)

The long-historical-traditional means of putting up hay with horsepower is to do it LOOSE, either loose in a barn or in a well-constructed outdoor haystack.

I think there's a *reason* for that 


Pat


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## OSUman (Nov 1, 2010)

I dont trust the amish much when it comes to their farm tools.  I have seen amish people with a large Toro push lawn mower and all sorts of other mowers.


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## patandchickens (Nov 1, 2010)

Well you may not be impressed with Amish or Mennonite tool use but good luck finding anyone else who's TRIED to rig a baler to work horse-drawn.

So, unless you are prepared to create a new breed of horse with a working PTO sprouting from their rumps, the Amish or Mennonites may be your best source of information on this subject 

Pat


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## jodief100 (Nov 1, 2010)

My friend Linda got back with me.  She mows the hay with the horse drawn mower but bales it with a 1950's John Deer.

I do recall putting up hay as a child without a baler.  My aunt had a high sided wagon and my uncle would pitch the loose hay into the wagon and all of us kids would walk around on top of it compacting the hay down.  I can't remember how you got it out of the wagon, I was about 10 the last year we did that.  It was difficult, exhausting, hot work.


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## patandchickens (Nov 1, 2010)

I _greatly_ admire the historical photos (some not *that* old, like '30s-40s) of folks out West with great big huge massive haystacks, twenty feet tall and wide. With real clever devices to hoist the hay up to the top as the stack is being made. Extremely cool.

OTOH that sort of thing is also why tractor-driven balers caught on so fast, I think <vbg> and are so much more appropriate for most peoples' situations nowadays, with relatively few pairs of hands available for labor.



> Amish rules for equipment, tools, seem to vary by the locale they are in, so some places have things others can't use.


I know this is true of the Mennonites -- had an interesting conversation with the guy up the road (market-gardener and u-pick) who was explaining to me why his congregation is allowed to use cell phones (solar charged) but not Blackberries, whereas some other group(s) in SW Ontario are apparently allowed to use Blackberries because they are primarily commodities farmers and *need* that sort of access to carry out their basic business. It sounded really quite sensible to me 

Anyhow, considering that the VAST VAST majority of horse farmers in North America are Amish/Mennonite, I _really_ think that's where to look if one wants to find out how to rig a baler to function behind a team of horses. YOu can also *try* the coupla horse-farming working-draft-horse forums/lists on the Internet, but they will probably tell you about what we are saying 

Pat


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## OSUman (Nov 1, 2010)

Im not saying that I wouldnt get anything from the amish, if I were to get draft horses then I would probably go to them since they have them in use in some parts.  IM just saying that they use a lot of powered technology.


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## goodhors (Nov 2, 2010)

Stacking loose hay is work.  Hard to handle if you want to sell it later on, when you don't need it.  Western Horseman ran some articles and photos of hay crews making stacks back then.  Showed the wagon loading, unloading at the stacker machine, how the horses were hitched to push hay up the ramp onto the stacks.  Old guys talking about how you had to arrange it to shed water, stay stacked in wind.  Then move the stacker to another location for the next haystack.  I think there was a pole centered in each one.  Many acres and MANY haystacks needed to safely get thru a winter without losing livestock.  They told how the wild animals, elk, deer and antelope, sometimes bison, would come eat hay so there was none for the cattle.  They usually only got one cutting a year, not much rain in many areas.  My Canadian friend has to fence her haystacks still, has a huge problem with elk trashing the stacks despite the fence barriers, in deep snow, minus 40F temps.  She buys for her range horses, who are not barned.  She has big bales stacked, not loose hay in her haystacks.

Hay balers were a big improvement in handling the vast quantities of hay needed for livestock.  Lots less physical work needed by many, to get in the same amount of hay.  Stored, baled hay has less loss than with outside stacks.

Whether you like or are just confused by the Amish, they do tend to "cobble up" things to make their work easier if possible.  Rules of how much they are allowed are not fixed in the religion.  They have no promise of care in their old age, no social benefits, since they don't contribute, being "off the grid" as they are.  The local "elders" in all locations do seem to be adaptable to change, working within their restrictions.  The gasoline powered equipment is an example, quite elastic among many groups.  Some can, others cannot.  Heck the rubber tread on buggies was a HUGE thing locally, over steel shod wheels.  Rubber tread on wheels were finally allowed, with much discussion about the quieter ride!  Other places still can only use steel tires.

As a horse owner, I would not be putting up loose hay in the loft or making haystacks, because the work is such a burden in time and effort needed with multiple workers.  Cute to watch as an example of how it was done before, but not practical for me in volumes of hay needed for my quantity of animals.  We can put up the purchased 1000 to 1500 bales of winter hay in the barns in a two days effort.  We handle it twice, load on the semi, unload into the barn, Then we are DONE.


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## Bossroo (Nov 2, 2010)

Not all Mennonites are restricted or follow strict rules.  One of my son's father inlaw in Cal. own a farm. He has all of the new fancy power farm tools including a Kabota tractor. He also owns 3 cars, a motor home, a 6 passenger personal airplane, plus 2 small jet planes that he leases to use by corporations.


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