# Inbreeding, line breeding...QUESTIONS! :)



## PendergrassRanch (Oct 13, 2012)

SO I'd like to hear from all you lovely members who have a herd, sheep or goats.  

Do you breed back to your doelings sire?

How often do you change up the buck?


Do I sound like I know what I'm talking about?


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Oct 13, 2012)

Oh boy. Some people on here do 'Line-breed' and swear by it but I've know people who have seen and done this kind of thing and in the end, it screws your line up. Some people will say genetics are a crap shoot and that's the only way. Not true. It's a bad idea imo and inbreeding will ruin your goats. Sorry. I would never breed anything within at least four generations. Four is pushing it a little but I think if it came down to it I would do four. So I would not at all breed daughter to sire.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 13, 2012)

I know we are talking about goats here but I can tell you it has been terrible in the canine world. American "line bred" dogs end up being a mess, and we have ruined a lot of breeds by doing so. The German standards have always been superior. Going back to goats... I still think 4 generations minimum, 5 is better. Having said that, I am not an experienced "goaty", but staying closely in a gene pool is not good.

I saw a saying once- If it works it's called "line breeding" if it doesn't it's called "inbreeding".


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## Roll farms (Oct 13, 2012)

Any good points will be emphasized when linebreeding, and any bad points will really, really be emphasized.  It's not for the inexperienced.

Will / do I do it?  Yep.

I've line bred 3 or 4 times in 15 yrs.  I prefer to do sire to daughter or dam to son (as opposed to 1/2 siblings) but have done that, too.  I'd never breed full sibs.

I've found it to be a lot more commonplace w/ dairy breeds than meat breeds, when trying to improve udders.

I'm breeding an Ob doe to her 1/2 brother this month.  Their sire is a finished permanent champion.  I've discussed it w/ several other Ob breeders who've looked at their pedigrees and the animals and say, "Go for it."

What I'm saying is, if you have a truly awesome animal who's got a trait or traits you want to try to repeat or emphasize in the offspring, do it.
If you're doing it b/c you don't want to have to buy different animals or because that's all that's available...and have no goals in mind...then don't.  
Breeding should be done in an effort to improve on what you have.


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## GLENMAR (Oct 13, 2012)

It depends on your goal. If you just want to freshen some does, and the kids go in the freezer or get sold as pets. Why not breed father to daughters.
If you are keeping animals for a breeding program, that may need to be thought out more carefully.


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## PendergrassRanch (Oct 13, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> I know we are talking about goats here but I can tell you it has been terrible in the canine world. American "line bred" dogs end up being a mess, and we have ruined a lot of breeds by doing so. The German standards have always been superior. Going back to goats... I still think 4 generations minimum, 5 is better. Having said that, I am not an experienced "goaty", but staying closely in a gene pool is not good.
> 
> I saw a saying once-* If it works it's called "line breeding" if it doesn't it's called "inbreeding"*.


I too have heard that quote.  I find it rather funny 

When I have my goats and sheep (haven't decided how many of what kind). They will be for food only.  I don't plan to show, or keep a huge herd (6 at the most).  They will be processed here for human food as well as dog food.  

I guess I will just have to see what happens.  I don't like the idea of in breeding and when I do acquire my herd, I will make sure that the buck is unrelated to the does.

Thanks for the answers and opinions  Keep them coming


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## meme (Oct 13, 2012)

We bred Rachel to a buck recently, and her kid(s) will be 8% inbred. I feel like that works for us, but I probably wouldn't feel comfortable with over 20% inbred. I guess it just depend on the goats and their conformation as well as gene strength though.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 13, 2012)

I was just reading Roll and GlenMar's post, and I get the "just for the freezer" thing. I am not arguing or disputing what you are saying. I want to say that because we don't always get the "tone" of what someone is saying, so this is just an honest question or thought really. I would wonder how many defects this would produce and the effects of those sometimes not so obvious defects (internal organs). If the purpose is growing them for the freezer you want them to be able to live and have good growth to make it worth it. Any experience on this one? I know there must be people who have experienced accidental matings before between sibs, Doe/ doe's son, Buck/buck's daughter.


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## SheepGirl (Oct 13, 2012)

My old ram, in fall 2009, bred his mother, his twin sister, and his maternal half sister and four lambs were produced. Only 1 survived. Was it due to inbreeding? I don't know, simply because the symptoms of the lambs that died matched up to a selenium deficiency. The only way to know if they died due to a genetic defect or a selenium deficiency is to have them necropsied, which I didn't do.

This past year that same ram bred his mother because he doesn't know how to stay behind a fence  She produced quads, but one was stillborn. The other one died at a day old and the vet checked her out before she euthanized her & said she had underdeveloped lungs. The other two are perfectly okay & they are being bred to an outcross sire this year if they come into heat.

That said, would I inbreed again? Yep and I plan to. If I like my new ram's lambs I will keep him another year and breed him to any daughters I retain out of him so I don't have to buy another ram. Will I keep the resulting inbred lambs for breeding? Sure, if they are as good as my outcross lambs. But if they don't stack up they'll go to market.


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 13, 2012)

We have held off a year getting  a new herd sire and bred back to their dad's so we wouldn't miss a year breeding our yearlings. All went well, No one had two heads or anything. Since we sell show wethers for meat shows, we just used the males and females for those sales. There are no rules that they can't be papered in line-bred that closely.  And I know some people do it to keep good genetics in their herd.


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## bonbean01 (Oct 13, 2012)

Interesting thread.  I remember once our neighbour back in Canada explaining in line breeding on his show Angus cattle.  He kept only the very excellent offspring that retained the strengths that he was looking for and said it meant ruthless culling on all but the best.  

Funny but whenever I hear in line breeding it always makes me wish I'd learned to line dance... 

Not that I could do any dance right now of any kind...took a bad fall on the dock where I had not noticed the irrosion beside the step onto the dock...black and blue and sore...perhaps that is my version of break dancing? 

Sorry...got off topic...looking forward to reading more on this subject.


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