# Hay, Jack!



## Moonshine (Sep 11, 2013)

Ok, I feel like this is a pretty dumb question, but what kind of hay to I buy? I live in southeast Texas with 3 dwarf/mini goats and I have a couple of different options. I have read on here that Alfalfa is wonderful stuff but we don't have that in our area. Here are my options:

Tifton, Jigs, and Coastal - Fertilized, irrigated, and stacked off the ground
Alecia
Fertilized Jigs Bermuda Square Hay Bales out of the field
Fertilized Bermuda and Bahia grass
Heavily fertilized argentina bahia
Fertilized Jiggs, fertilized Bahia, fertilized Tifton 9
Mixed bahia/bermuda
Coastal/Bermuda/bahai mix
Rye grass hay 
Hay from last year, Hay that was cut today, Hay that has been rained on, Hay that has been rained on once, Barn kept hay, Fertilized, Non-fertilized, Cow Hay, Horse Hay

I am at a loss with all the options and I have no clue what is the best, mediocre, or no way Jose Hay!! I don't know what questions to ask and I don't know what answers to look for! Can someone please give me a course on HAY?!?!


----------



## Catahoula (Sep 11, 2013)

Chaffhaye...alfalfa hay in a bag.  http://www.chaffhaye.com/


----------



## Rocco (Sep 11, 2013)

Good fertilized fine-bladed coastal bermuda. Emphasize Fine-Bladed...meaning not first cut.

You'll find goats will eat it sometime and sometimes they despise bermuda. But the fine bladed stuff usually goes over best. And make sure it still has some good color and smell to it. Lots of folks advertise "goat hay"...and they have obviously never owned goats and how particular they can be about hay.

Also, if you can find some, get bermuda mixed with other grasses and weeds. A guy I buy from has areas he cuts that has maybe 10% Dallis grass and 10% Johnson grass along with a few other odds and end weeds in the bermuda. The goats eat it way more consistently than straight bermuda hay.

And the Chaffhaye is a good addition to "salt" the bermuda with if you get a bunch the goats aren't eating well.


----------



## AshleyFishy (Sep 11, 2013)

Anything fertilized and barn kept is a plus. Don't buy rained on. 

Tifton is good stuff but buy from someone who knows how and when it was fertilized. In Texas I would steer clear of weeds in the hay. I wouldn't waste my money on bahia or coastal hay. Mine hate alecia hay. Aim for wide leaf, soft stem, sweet smelling (but not like fermentation sweet) and green tinted. Protein tested is a plus.

Get some alfalfa pellets from the feed store! Your goats will love ya for it.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Sep 11, 2013)

Mine eat coastal Bermuda just fine.  Throw in a few weeds and they like it even better.

Rocco is right, first cut isn't best.  But, sometimes you can't get anything else.  First cut is usually in the front of the barn now, you'll be getting that in March. 

But you are probably not correct about one thing in your OP. Somebody has alfalfa hay there, they truck that stuff everywhere.  But, it will cost you.  That's why we feed grass hay free choice and give alfalfa to lactating does and animasl that need conditioning.


----------



## meme (Sep 11, 2013)

We use plain old alfalfa.


----------



## AshleyFishy (Sep 11, 2013)

meme said:
			
		

> We use plain old alfalfa.


Well alfalfa is darn hard to find round these parts.


----------



## madcow (Sep 12, 2013)

We feed alfalfa.  It's been really expensive from the feed store, but it has been really good stuff and the goats eat it like nothing else.  Just found a source for alfalfa hay 2 miles away, and it's a lot cheaper.  It didn't look as good as the stuff we got from the feed store as it was browner, but the goats eat it just fine.  If they cut back a bit on eating this batch of alfalfa it won't matter much because they are getting a bit fat anyway and wouldn't hurt them to cut down.   Tried coastal for them when I first got them, but they wouldn't touch it and I left it for 2 weeks and they never gave it a second look.  Mine won't touch alfalfa pellets either.  Picky, picky, picky, spoiled goats....... Love them though, as they are my babies, and they know it.....


----------



## Renegade (Sep 12, 2013)

We feed either bahia or bermuda to everyone but the show goats. Most of mine actually prefer bahia.

Donna


----------



## Rocco (Sep 12, 2013)

I have never fed Bahia to goats though my last place had Bahia pastures. All we had there were the neighbors cattle on it. It gets seedy in a hurry...I guess goats would like that.

Another possibility on the alfalfa is to buy the bagged alfalfa cubes. It costs about the same as square bales in my area and is usually 100% eaten by the goats - no waste. I can find it sometimes for as "low" as $12 per 50# bag. Small squares of alfalfa are running $12-15 a bale. 3-string bales are $18 and up.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Sep 12, 2013)

It seems we all have preferences or have found that our animals eat one better than the other.  You have to develop your own feeding regimen that works best for your animals on your farm.

The nutritional data analysis is available on all types of hay.  I don't think there is any argument that alfalfa hay is the most nutritious. 

 We are very fortunate here in that just east of my location is peanut country.  Farmers grow lots and lots of peanuts.  A valuable by-product of peanuts is peanut hay.  Somebody told me that peanut hay is just behind alfalfa in nutrition.  Can't swear to that.  And it is super cheap, $20 for large round bales.  We stock up on it for the  winter.

But, to the original poster.  I would suggest that you do some research on nutrition for the types of hay available, the information is online.  If you "google" hay or coastal Bermuda hay you can find the nutritional analysis on it.  

The go with the best that your goats will eat.


----------



## Moonshine (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks so much for all of the feedback!! I come to this forum and learn so much and because I've been able to learn so much from you all I value your opinions and advise!


----------



## madcow (Sep 12, 2013)

Moonshine said:
			
		

> Thanks so much for all of the feedback!! I come to this forum and learn so much and because I've been able to learn so much from you all I value your opinions and advise!


I was just reading your list of all the animals (4-legged and 2-legged)  you have to feed and clean up after and it sounds like you could use all the help you can get!  Sounds like could be neverending chores at your house, but I bet everyone is well taken care of!  Bless your heart!


----------



## Moonshine (Sep 12, 2013)

Yes MadCow, it does get a little crazy around here! The 5 year old DS is especially bad about having to clean up after and care for lol. Caring for everything else is a breeze compared to him and a joy more than a chore. I get up at 6am cook him breakfast and get him off to school :bun then I get to drink my coffee and start with the animals. Once they are all fed up I get on BYH and see whats going on in the world!  I truly am a crazy lady though because last week I got a phone call begging me to be DS's soccer team coach. Now I one more thing on my todo list  I'm thrilled when I read every ones journal, BYH keeps me sane lol!! If it were up to me we'd have a little farm of our own with about 10 acres and more critters!


----------



## Hardy&Healthy (Sep 13, 2013)

Moonshine said:
			
		

> Hay from last year, Hay that was cut today, Hay that has been rained on, Hay that has been rained on once, Barn kept hay, Fertilized, Non-fertilized, Cow Hay, Horse Hay


Being I am far from your area, I can not make a recommendation on which choice of grass/forage is best. However, there are a few rules that should apply to any type of hay...

*Last years vs today's - and everything in between?*
---Hay that has just been baled needs to go through a "sweat". Although the person baling the hay should have allowed the hay to dry after cutting & prior to baling, there will always still be a small amount of moisture. After baling, the forage needs time to go through it's chemical changes (kind of like a fermentation period). This process can take approx 2-4 weeks. We try to never *use* hay until 30 days after baling. As insurance, we always over buy... If the cutting we normally would buy has a bad harvest, we can make it through not only to the next cutting but the 30 day sweat as well. 
---Fresh hay will of course have the best nutritional value. Hay will continue to hold it's values fairly well it's first year. Once the hay is over 1 year old, it looses it's values drastically. By the time it is 2 years old, it will not have much (if any) nutritional value. However, it is still very usable. As long as the hay was baled and stored properly, it can still be used for years as long as you are not relying on it for there sole source of nutrients. Also, as the hay ages, it tends to become less 'tender'. With these things to consider, I always use the oldest hay up first... And that means taking the extra effort to move last-year's hay out of the way before stacking this-year's. 

*Hay that has been rained on?* --> 
---As long as it was allowed to dry well before being baled, one time being rained on isn't 'that much' difference. Once cut, a few days of sun is good to condition the hay for baling. However, prolonged sitting in the sun does start killing the nutrients. Every time it is rained on, it needs time to lay out and dry - which can begin to bake the nutrients out. 
---Hay that was rained on after being baled - the farmer should have cut the bales open, raked, allowed to dry, and then re-baled.
---Bales that were rained on, such as on your way home with them, or the roof leaked on them, etc... Can be saved! Go to the local farm store and pick up a 50# bag of livestock salt -$3-$4 / bag. Do not stack them with your other hay. Heavily sprinkle and rub in salt to each side of each bale . Then, lifted off the ground (such as on a palate), proceed to stack all the bales on edge (the narrower of the two long sides / the prickly edge) with large gaps. If there are only a few bales, I wouldn't "stack" them... Just set them off the ground, on edge, separated, and salt. If there are many, you can do the thatch-stacking, on edge, leaving the largest gaps possible while still having a sturdy stack. After stacked, I always heavily re-apply to all the flat/top surfaces (including inside your gaps). Allow them to sit salted and stacked like that for a couple weeks. "Why does it work?" - The salt drawls the moisture to the surfaces, and the stacking method exposes the most surface area to air. Having a fan blowing to circulate air is not necessary. However, it is a nice bonus... Speeding the process along. Once dry (do try to check the bales to make sure they are well dry down inside), you can bounce the bales on the ground to knock the excess salt off, and stack in your 'long-term parking area'.

*Fertilized vs non fertilized?* -->
---This would depend on what fertilizing product they used, why, when the applications were applied, and personal opinion. 
---Chem-fertilizers can poison animals if not used properly. Some times the forage is lacking nutrients, so we fertilize. But what if the crop was lacking in 'this', but not 'that'. You could end up with a spike of something at a toxic level. Or because of the fertilizing, the growth "shoots up"... Some times due those rapid growth periods  our grasses have a high Nitro/low mag issue (your yard/pasture can have this issue too when going from drought to rainy)., and magnesium deficiency is serious! The crop needs time to absorb what it needs, dispose of the extra, and dissipate of external residues! However, when applied at the right times, and baled at the right times, the chem-fert. hay is very safe to feed.
---Natural fertilizing (manure) is probably viewed as a little safer than chem-fert.s, as there isn't as much danger if there is no rain to wash residues away before baling. However it has it's own down sides. Fertilizer that is too fresh, where the ph is off, can burn crops instead of providing a healthy environment. Baling to close to application can lead to "ewww" in your bales. This can be a problem for a couple reasons... Either the animals won't want to eat it. Or if they do eat it, and could be ingesting parasites. Lastly, if the animals fed hay from crop 'X' are then being used to make the fertilizer to fertilize hay crop 'X', the deficiency is likely not being corrected. 
---Non fertilized hay is very safe! However, may have a lower quality of nutritional value compared to the fertilized hay. Also, crops will tend to yield less per acre, therefore may raise the cost per bale. On the other hand, farmers may charge less (due to knowing it possesses a lower quality, and/or the cost to fertilize being saved). 

*Cow hay vs horse hay?* -->
Goats can eat types of forages horses can't or won't, as can cattle. Horses have a severe sensitivity to mold! They can die quickly from even a small amount! Most cattle however, may not thrive on it, but can handle larger amounts with relative ease. Goats are somewhere in between. A little is probably more of a problem to their owner's mind than the goat itself. However, too much and goats can become ill... And if left untreated, they could die. Some farmers use the term "cow hay" because they know a horse person would not be interested due to being past year's hay, crop going to seed, having a horse-poisonous plant in that field, being cut too late / course, getting rained on, molding, etc. I would ask "Why is this cow hay vs horse hay?" and see what they say. Most cow hay is much cheaper and would be fine for the average goat. I would avoid any hay that is lousy with mold. If in doubt, go for horse hay. It is always a safe bet! It is also less likely to be wasted by picky goats, and therefore not really have a difference in cost. If you are concerned with "Will they eat it?", you could always buy a bale to try. 

*As for Alfalfa...*
Contrary to popular belief, Alfalfa is not the best quality when it comes to nutrient vitamins. Alfalfa works great for goats due to it's protein values. Although most goats do okay on grass hays, they really bloom with the high protein content of alfalfa. Goats that are growing, breeding, recovering, etc. have an even greater need for the higher protein. At the same time, if you have a mixed herd (such as with horses) the high protein levels of alfalfa can be dangerous (leading to kidney issues)... Performance horses being a little different (due to the work, they need the proteins to build and repair muscle - therefore it does not build up the same way.  On another note, the way goats' digestive systems are designed, they are able to pull and make use of minimal vitamin contents that other animals struggle with utilizing. Lastly, with bucks and wethers it is a trade off... The high levels of protein can help to develop and maintain wonderful muscle. However, it also increases the chance of a urinary issues. I would recommend a supplement for the boys for this reason.

Did I help, miss something, overload, or confuse? I'm a little tired.


----------



## Moonshine (Sep 13, 2013)

Whoa! That's a lot of hay info!! Thanks so much for that useful information. I think it would have taken me a while to dig and figure all that out. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into that and hopefully it will help someone else too that is new to buying hay!


----------

