# So... Our future food shortage -



## GD91 (Dec 10, 2014)

Which I keep hearing is looming upon us, does anyone else hear about this?

Everywere both online & in person lately I am bumping into raging vegans (why you cruel...!), vegetarians & hearing all sorts of philander about cows farting & how they actually produce more gas on grass than on grain (apparently it takes more digestion) etc, etc when I read a discussion it is usually discussing grain to... Seriously? I hate grain 

It's all the environment this & global warming that.... so the past two weeks we made the effort. We switched from using household chemicals (admittedly, we did use too much) to using oranic cleaners (lemon juice, anyone?) I began putting food out for the birds and built 2 bird tables (the chickens raided one & broke it). Now we actually have a blackbird and a robin in our garden .

We are also trying some other experiments. Currently there are onions in a bag in the BEDROOM (yes, I know) & we are growing tons of indoor plants edible & not-so-much. The rabbits are indoors to in an X-pen, so it's pretty, well, unusual to say the least.

I was just wondering since the larger livestock & grain production seem to be the bigger issue - aren't humans actually not designed to eat grain? And do we really need to eat beef?
Am not altogether sure what all the fuss is about really, I wouldn't care about living without beef, fish & pork as long as I have fowl, eggs, rabbits & gamebirds.
I would be really interested to hear the views of other members - could you live without eating larger livestock & switch to smaller game? Or do you love it too much?

As I stated, I only really like smaller animals & I love my salads, vegetables & eggs. I do well on it to. Never eat cereal at all, can't stomach the stuff (literally) & don't really enjoy red meat or pork. Fruit I don't like much either. But I do eat a real variety, nonetheless

It's a shame more people are not backyard farming. I wasn't going to bother growing veggies, but now I've started I'm loving it. It would probably solve world hunger & everyone could eat organic if everybody farmed in their garden & indoors perhaps to.


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## GD91 (Dec 10, 2014)

A few pics to show you guys  We brought the rabbits in due to the weather. "Quail" came in to. Don't worry, they are all used to being housed together.


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## SA Farm (Dec 10, 2014)

I could definitely live without large animal meat. The occasional deer or cow would probably be nice, but not necessary. 
I agree that a potential food shortage could easily be solved with more people growing their own - at least veggies. My 2+ acres can grow plenty of meat and I don't even have a large garden, but it supplements our diet nicely with much of it going to the animals.
There is still a lot of stuff I would need to be entirely self-sufficient, but that is actually what we're working towards


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 10, 2014)

_"Which I keep hearing is looming upon us, does anyone else hear about this?"_

No, I have not heard this.

_"I was just wondering since the larger livestock & grain production seem to be the bigger issue"_

Why is that?

_"I would be really interested to hear the views of other members - could you live without eating larger livestock & switch to smaller game? Or do you love it too much?"_

I love steak and bacon too much to give it up.

_"It would probably solve world hunger & everyone could eat organic if everybody farmed in their garden"_

Politicians are the cause of world hunger. The agricultural price support policies in the west and the lack of strong political institutions and rule of law in third world countries that suffer from hunger.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 10, 2014)

> OneFineAcre said:
> 
> 
> > *Politicians are the cause of world hunger*. The agricultural price support policies in the west and the lack of strong political institutions and rule of law in third world countries that suffer from hunger.



Thank you @OneFineAcre  VERY WELL SAID!

Politicians are your biggest issue.
At this time there is no "food shortage". There are seasons where there may be drought, heavy rains etc that influence a particular region or crop but in general, worldwide, there is no shortage.
Year to year, region to region some crops will be great others poor. This has been cyclical for thousands of years.

As far as everyone growing their own food.... um, not gonna happen... where would the millions of people living in the cities grow their food?

Many "proclaimed vegans" are clueless.... it seems this is the new thing the young people are into and have no idea what they are doing, or  half the stuff they say they haven't a clue about.

Now just play that one out logically... everyone stops eating animals. .... think about it....


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 10, 2014)

Since we are talking about the food supply, here is a question for you BYHer's


"What is “the cheapest, most nutritious and bountiful food that has ever existed in human history?” Hint: It has 390 calories. It contains 23g, or half a daily serving, of protein, plus 7% of daily fiber, 20% of daily calcium and so on"


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## frustratedearthmother (Dec 10, 2014)

Sad.... The McDonald's Double Cheeseburger...says economics writer Stephen Dubner and professor Steven Levitt, who co-wrote the million-selling books on the hidden side of everything.

“Not only are the empty calories cheaper,” he reported, “but the healthy foods are becoming more and more expensive. Vegetables and fruits are rapidly becoming luxury goods.” Where else but McDonald’s can poor people obtain so many calories per dollar?

ugh....


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 10, 2014)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Sad.... The McDonald's Double Cheeseburger...says economics writer Stephen Dubner and professor Steven Levitt, who co-wrote the million-selling books on the hidden side of everything.
> 
> “Not only are the empty calories cheaper,” he reported, “but the healthy foods are becoming more and more expensive. Vegetables and fruits are rapidly becoming luxury goods.” Where else but McDonald’s can poor people obtain so many calories per dollar?
> 
> ugh....



You win the prize.


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## frustratedearthmother (Dec 10, 2014)

uh...thanks?   LOL


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 10, 2014)

I enjoyed this article.


http://nypost.com/2013/07/28/the-greatest-food-in-human-history/


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## jodief100 (Dec 10, 2014)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Sad.... The McDonald's Double Cheeseburger...says economics writer Stephen Dubner and professor Steven Levitt, who co-wrote the million-selling books on the hidden side of everything.
> 
> “Not only are the empty calories cheaper,” he reported, “but the healthy foods are becoming more and more expensive. Vegetables and fruits are rapidly becoming luxury goods.” Where else but McDonald’s can poor people obtain so many calories per dollar?
> 
> ugh....



The only reason the empty calories are cheaper is because the government subsidizes corn production and processed corn products.


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## jodief100 (Dec 10, 2014)

And food shortages is not what is going to kill us.  Fresh water is going to be the limiting resource.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 10, 2014)

jodief100 said:


> The only reason the empty calories are cheaper is because the government subsidizes corn production and processed corn products.



Yep, I referred to that when I said that politicians were to blame for world hunger.
But, the US subsidizes farmers much less than in Western Europe and Japan.


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## SheepGirl (Dec 10, 2014)

No!! Thats a mcdouble not a double cheeseburger!!  (haha coming from the mcdonalds employee). And the reason salads are around $5 each when you can get a mcdouble for $1.29 is the ingredients are fresher. People dont want brown or freezer burned salads but they dont mind eating burgers cooked from frozen meat.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 10, 2014)

SheepGirl said:


> No!! Thats a mcdouble not a double cheeseburger!!  (haha coming from the mcdonalds employee). And the reason salads are around $5 each when you can get a mcdouble for $1.29 is the ingredients are fresher. People dont want brown or freezer burned salads but they dont mind eating burgers cooked from frozen meat.


You are correct although you may be the only person on here who knows the difference


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 10, 2014)

SheepGirl said:


> No!! Thats a mcdouble not a double cheeseburger!!  (haha coming from the mcdonalds employee). And the reason salads are around $5 each when you can get a mcdouble for $1.29 is the ingredients are fresher. People dont want brown or freezer burned salads but they dont mind eating burgers cooked from frozen meat.



Just think if Washington's men at Valley Forge had two of those per day with their ration
We would have won the war much sooner


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## babsbag (Dec 11, 2014)

Actually 390 calories for a meal is not that bad, and I bet that most of those calories are in the bun. They need a whole wheat option for the bun. 

I can buy  a McDouble for a $1.00. Pretty cheap lunch. Hold the fries and the soda and I don't even feel guilty


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 11, 2014)

I can't stomach that anymore.  Used to be no problem. I don't know if it is age or just that I have a fussy digestive system or maybe I am spoiled on homegrown food but I get sick every time we are on the run and swing by for a cheap burger.

I dunno about the government thing and I'm not saying all government is bad---it is sure worse other places.  But I do get upset when I read about things like the Michigan laws that recently changed, making it hard  or impossible to be a small time farmer or hobbyist  or to just teach kids hands on where food comes from.


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## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2014)

The more government controls food the easier it is to control you.


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## GD91 (Dec 11, 2014)

I can't even remember the last time I ate a MacDonalds 

Anyway...

The referrals to large animals and grain are more to do with the amount of water & nutrients required to grow it. The theory is that in the future there will no be enough.
The vegans & vegatarians are incorrect in their belief that if everyone turns to a plant based diet, that it will make a difference. Wheat requires a lot of water & runoff to thrive. Also, you are still killing millions of small animals & insects everytime you toil a field.
Meat is nutritionally higher & you do not need to destroy large areas of space (as you do with grain & large livestock) to harvest it (as we all know). Wildlife can live alongside domestic animals as the garden blackbird & "quail" keep proving as they hang around together on the grass ("You'd better not catch anything!")
Technically you can get all of your nutrition from meat (if you eat the organs etc to). A plant based diet still requires vitimans B12 & additional calcium + iron to survive & thrive on.
Vitamin B12 is only found in meat foods from animals to bacteria. So, some meat is certainly healthy for us, but now it is not the way it has to be in this day & age (I think the vegans are right on that one.)

There is much more to it than simply the world governments, there is the land. Only so much % of it is suitable for agricultural purposes & we are currently using most of it. The rest is either protected wilderness or unsuitable due to soil drainage or other issues. So it's the environmental impact to consider to. Currently 60% of our world population of animals is going or has gone extinct since 1975 & most of them are because of agricultural practices & human housing developers. Our fences etc design a maze which our wildlife cannot navigate very well.
Building houses over current agricultural land is also happening faster than it is being replaced.

Also the agricultural practises are very damaging, but the governments & food agencies do not believe organic farming is sustainable in the long term on large farms.
They seem to think it is only sustainable on small farms or in backyard farming, but not suitable to feed the world. There are tests being carried out proving otherwise, but they are still sitting tight like ducks on this one.

They say they have no answers - I do. I say - lets all grow organic in our homes & gardens. Let vegans only grow vegatables & fruit & omnivores keep rabbits, chickens, quail & whatever other small suitable animals they can cook up (literally).

Now, explaining to the general public why there will have to be change 25 - 50 years down the line is another matter. I don't think anyone would listen  money is the priority until it becomes useless.

Scientists did do the lab grown steak, but personally I'm not keen on it 

Anyway, come on people - would you live without big meat or not? And to the people who replied yes & no already, thankyou for your answers.
Can you do votes on BYH....?


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 11, 2014)

I see what you mean about the large animal use and there is some truth to the the amount of energy required to produce say beef compared to a goat.  

That said, while I mostly eat chicken and now goat, I order a steer for processing once a year and I would not want to give that up.  Pig I could probably live without.  If folks did turn to smaller meat producers though, the use of those animals would increase and I doubt very much that any significant impact would be made in the grand scheme of things.  

And as far as completely organic and raising the all of the food you eat, I don't think most people have the time anymore that it would take to actually produce and preserve all of the food needed to rear a family, especially without the use of items that would make a garden technically organic.  I like the idea of being less reliant on others for our food but there is no way that I could keep a full time job, raise a family, and maintain all of our food.  Daily plant care, hand removal of insect or so-so organic treatments to prevent diseases and varmint damage.  Nope.  Balance is fine by me.  Raise my veggies in the summer, can a bit, rear most of our meat---but buy what I can't reasonably produce myself at the store.


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## babsbag (Dec 11, 2014)

Organic farming is TOUGH. While I applaud the idea and I practice it at home, I understand the farmers, who are dependent on the crop for a living, using chemicals. I hate it, but I understand it. And as I beekeeper, I REALLY hate it, but I still can see their side of the story. Most consumers would not buy the quality of produce that is grown without chemicals. And even organic farms are allowed certain chemicals, some of them I don't even have access to as a hobbyist.

Could I give up beef, sure. But what would the impact be on the economy if everyone gave up beef? I can't even fathom the far reaching implications of that industry going away.

My concern is not the land disappearing or being misused. My concern is water, really the lack of it, and what is happening to the ground water supply in the US.


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## GD91 (Dec 11, 2014)

Yes  that was something else everyone keeps talking about - the groundwater carrying chemicals from the farming into lakes & rivers.

Apparently organic farming doesn't have such an issue since water has its ways of breaking down organic material. 

Well, I can say that I live in an industrial area & there is only the tougher wildlife here - rats, foxes, blackbirds & woodpigeons.

Actually, I remember posting a thread on here about that... I think it was in the gardening section  just remembered now, it was posted a while back. 

At least with the smaller livestock people would be sparing more land - you would be using your garden after all. But I agree Pearce Pasture, it may not make a difference in the grand scheme of things except possibly more people may switch to the veggies.
After all - many people cannot be expected to eat that cute little bunny 

I'm betting that 50% of the population would end up going vegan anyway 

Oh, quick question:

Are veggies grown organically indoors healthier would you say? Or about the same as though they were grown outside?

Still doing my veggies  but the rottweiler stole & ate all of me carrots  stupid mutt.


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