# here are the rabbits!



## samanthaj (Feb 11, 2011)

these are the rabbits we got off freecyle for my daughter to use in 4h.we did finally figure out we have 2 bucks and a doe,man bunnies do not like getting flipped over! the lady had no idea on breed and they may be so mixed noone will ever know,but i always like to quess! the brown and white one has blue eyes if that helps any one breeds! 













the doe is the one in the middle that looks calico colored,she looks alot like some harliquens we had looked at


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## tortoise (Feb 11, 2011)

Either they need more socialization, better handling, or have poor temperaments.  You should not have a problem turning a rabbit over.


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## samanthaj (Feb 11, 2011)

well we did just get them,they seem really lovable they come right up to the cage,we have them seperate now,they just didnt seem to like the flipping over. i know it is something she has to work on because they have to do it at the 4h show


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## CrimsonRose (Feb 11, 2011)

tortoise said:
			
		

> Either they need more socialization, better handling, or have poor temperaments.  You should not have a problem turning a rabbit over.


unless rabbits are handled from birth and flipped over frequently... even rabbits that are socialized will freak out if you try to flip them. Rabbits don't naturally like laying on their back it is unnatural for them. Some will Freeze up when flipped but this is more out of fear than relaxation. When trapped in the wild by prey rabbits will freeze to keep from attracting the predators. 

I handle my rabbits ALL the time they are very social. but they are a larger breed rabbit so I don't flip them over a lot (when they are babies I do so it's easier to sex them when the day comes but no need to keep flipping them as the grow up after that point) But if I do have to flip them even though they are used to being held they still kick and I have a few scars on my hands from them. and it has nothing to do with their temperament... I let my 3 year old handle them with no fear. But I do understand that turning them on their back is not something they are used to and don't feel them fighting back is bad temperament... They are just scared to do something new to them... It's a very vulnerable position for a rabbit.


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## tortoise (Feb 11, 2011)

Maybe it is a handling thing?  Mine are large breed and that isn't an issue.   Even rabbits that I haven't raised and haven't been handled don't give me an issue.  

My super-amazing-socialized-good temperament rabbits are more relaxed than rabbits that were never touched until 5 months old.  But even those don't give me a problem.

Curious how you guys flip your rabbits over?!  Video?


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## CrimsonRose (Feb 11, 2011)

Mine are flemish giants so once full grown they are about 22-25lbs they are too large to cradle like my new zealands (which again if not handled from birth will kick as well... but all my hand raised babies do fine) 

So I sit in a chair and hold the scruff of the neck and hold the rump with my other hand and I flip them away from me with their legs pointing out so if they do kick I don't get gouged. after a few kicks they tend to calm down since they are used to being held but just not in that position... then I can "inspect them and such and they usually are fine once they are freeze up... if I hold them there for a while they do eventually relax and calm down but I never really have need too... I've only had to flip a few adults ever anyhow... 

Almost all babies I've bought and flipped to check for sex will kick because they are not used to having this done... not many "breeders" will handle kits daily since they have a few litters going at any one time... I have 3 kiddos that really help with socializing all my baby buns... so they do pretty well when flipped as long as they are used to being flipped and held a lot... 

It also may depend on the breed as well... some breeds are just more high strung than others... my new zealands are much more jumpy and less friendly than the flemish... Once they are grown I don't even let the kids handle the new zealands because they can decide to kick out of the blue for any old reason... The flemish don't spook half as bad and even though they are almost 2 times the size of the new zealands I have no issues with the kiddos holding them... 

So it's not always due to handling techniques some buns are just jumpier than others... sorta like dogs... some just lazy around while others bounce off the walls...


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## samanthaj (Feb 11, 2011)

so can anyone see any certain breeds in these guys LOL


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## MiniRexGirl (Feb 11, 2011)

> unless rabbits are handled from birth and flipped over frequently... even rabbits that are socialized will freak out if you try to flip them. Rabbits don't naturally like laying on their back it is unnatural for them. Some will Freeze up when flipped but this is more out of fear than relaxation. When trapped in the wild by prey rabbits will freeze to keep from attracting the predators.


My rabbits don't like being turned over but are getting better about it. The breeder we got them from said that when turned over from birth they DO like being flipped over because that is the position that they nurse in so it is a calming position. It is just when you don't continue flipping them that they sort of "lose" that fondness for that position and freak out when flipped. 

What is their fur like? That could be another indication on breed.


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## terri9630 (Feb 11, 2011)

CrimsonRose said:
			
		

> Mine are flemish giants so once full grown they are about 22-25lbs they are too large to cradle like my new zealands (which again if not handled from birth will kick as well... but all my hand raised babies do fine)
> 
> So I sit in a chair and hold the scruff of the neck and hold the rump with my other hand and I flip them away from me with their legs pointing out so if they do kick I don't get gouged. after a few kicks they tend to calm down since they are used to being held but just not in that position... then I can "inspect them and such and they usually are fine once they are freeze up... if I hold them there for a while they do eventually relax and calm down but I never really have need too... I've only had to flip a few adults ever anyhow...
> 
> ...


My New Zealands are calm as can be.  They don't really like to be flipped, but we don't do it very often.  My buck will sit on your lap all day if you let him.  If I set him on my bed and get on the computer he will hop up on my keyboard and sit there like my old cat used to do when she wanted attention.


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## therealsilkiechick (Feb 12, 2011)

how old r they? looks to be a black, a harli and a broken orange. the broken orange looks like a dutch cross or dutch/rex/? cross going by markings. they have some weird long ears that r wide, specially the broken and the harli ones. with the ears on the broken possible a lop cross in the mix also but i'm thinking a big meat breed w big ears looks closer. to be honest they look like crossed meat rabbits to me and they look to be crossed more than 2 breeds. good luck to ur daughter she will have loads of fun, my kids love showing but they show open show w/ me. they r adorable and love the ears on the broken just to cute!


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## cattlecait (Feb 12, 2011)

samanthaj said:
			
		

> so can anyone see any certain breeds in these guys LOL


They certainly seem to be Heinz 57 bunnies lol. The broken orange looks like he MIGHT have some English Spot (he does sort of have the spotted markings on the side and what looks like a broken herringbone along his spine) and some Dutch, the vienna pattern on its head would give it the blue eyes too. There's a Harlie in there, or a Harlie mix looks like. And the solid one...I haven't got a clue lol.

Mutts!


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## samanthaj (Feb 12, 2011)

therealsilkiechick said:
			
		

> how old r they? looks to be a black, a harli and a broken orange. the broken orange looks like a dutch cross or dutch/rex/? cross going by markings. they have some weird long ears that r wide, specially the broken and the harli ones. with the ears on the broken possible a lop cross in the mix also but i'm thinking a big meat breed w big ears looks closer. to be honest they look like crossed meat rabbits to me and they look to be crossed more than 2 breeds. good luck to ur daughter she will have loads of fun, my kids love showing but they show open show w/ me. they r adorable and love the ears on the broken just to cute!


thanks! the are 6 months old. from an earlier question,the fur reminds me sorta cats fur,medium length straight and soft,if that helps!meat breeds are great,she will be doing a meat pen at the fair with the babies from these guys!i had also noticed the ears,i think they are so goofy the are cute LOL


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## Bunnylady (Feb 12, 2011)

If these are the freecycle bunnies, they are supposed to be about 6 months old, right? That means that they are at or near their adult size. They look like they weigh, what, about 5 pounds? If this is as big as they are going to get, then the majority of their ancestry must be small breeds. I don't think they could have  Netherland Dwarf or Dwarf Hotot as a parent and have ears like that, but I suppose there could be something like that further back. Their heads look a little too narrow to have any kind of Lop in their family tree, unless perhaps it was Velveteen Lop (but that breed is still under development, so there aren't a lot of those). They look like they have normal coats, and their type doesn't scream "Mini Rex," but the smutty-nosed Harlequin coloring on the one certainly could have come from a MR, as could the broken pattern on another one. The broken looks like Blue Tort rather than an orange, that color could have come from MR or Dutch. You said the one has blue eyes, are they a bright sky blue or more of a blue-gray color? Blue gray eyes are normal for Blue Torts, but bright blue eyes are the result of the Vienna (Blue Eyed White) gene. BEW is a somewhat uncommon color for several small breeds, so it doesn't really get you any further, other than to explain the sort of Dutch-looking blaze on the broken. They are certainly a mix! If I had to narrow it down to two breeds, I'd sat Dutch and Mini Rex, but there could certainly be a bit of some other breeds as well.


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## ChickenPotPie (Feb 14, 2011)

Bunnylady said:
			
		

> If I had to narrow it down to two breeds, I'd sat Dutch and Mini Rex, but there could certainly be a bit of some other breeds as well.


Same here for a few reasons.  

Those two breeds are pretty common and commonly crossed into other breeds.  The blue eyes on the broken gold rabbit is due to the vienna gene.  That gives it the "Dutch" like markings, too.  

Even though any rabbit could have these markings and eye color because of the vienna gene, I do believe there is Dutch in them.  They are all the same size a Dutch and they have the same type as Dutch and Mini Rex.  I'm told that crossing the rex gene into other breeds often yields normal fur.

I fostered a Dutch doe and litter that were all definitely Dutch but there was also the vienna gene in there.  Faces were longer than Dutch you'd see on the tables today.  They were very old school you might say.  They were just poor representatives of the SOP but they were absolutely Dutch mixed with something else.

BEW Mini Rex are not all that uncommon.  Neither are the Vienna marked "biproduct" of that color variety project.  I can imagine petting out or selling the vienna marks is a common practice of those working on BEWs who don't process their extras.  

I think it stands to reason that Dutch, based on size, fur, body type, and probable availability, and Mini Rex, based on size, type, Tort being a very common color in MR, and the possibility of the vienna gene coming from a BEW MR project even a few generations back.  

I don't know about the Harli pattern.  I don't know enough about it.  I do know that there are plenty of Harli marked rabbits of various breeds out there.  I've seen harli marked ND, AFL, JW, and HL.  Those animals had very good to excellent type for their breed.  Looked nothing like a Harli type wise.  I'm just sayin' the gene is out there and it does not have to have come from a Harliquin from a recent generation.

My guess would be same as Bunnylady.   Cute bunnies.  I hope your daughter thoroughly enjoys them.


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## samanthaj (Feb 15, 2011)

thanks everyone, she really is enjoying them! the breed didnt really matter,i was just curious LOL we have two does and a buck that are alot younger, 9 weeks and i know they are new zealand,calafornia and something else! i cant remember but dd has it in her 4h journal!


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