# Strange behavior from LGD



## treeclimber233 (Mar 6, 2012)

I have a buck that has a horn growing around toward his skull.  I tried to cut his horn the other day which he was not happy about.  In the ensuing struggle and fighting my LGD got very upset.  He was running around barking and trying to get between me and the goat.  When that did not work he started charging the fence like he was trying to attack something.  This fence is on the opposite side of the pen where I was working on the goat so I know he was not threatening me.  Then he came over and tried to get between me and the goat again.  When that did not work he mounted my goat and started humping him!!!!!  My dog is 16 months old and neutered since he was 8 months old.  What in the world was he thinking????


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## Queen Mum (Mar 6, 2012)

He was thinking the goat was in danger.  He didn't know how to handle the situation because you are the boss.  He was trying to tell you to stop endangering the animal.  That much is clear.  He knows he can't attack you so he expressed his frustration in any manner he could.  

BTW, why were you trying to cut the horn, that can be dangerous.  Horns are quite vascular and bleed very heavily when you cut them.  You would be better advised to band the horn.


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## hcppam (Mar 6, 2012)

The humping was also an alpha thing, like look I'm your boss goat, what ever your doing to my boss (you) stop it. Agree he was just confused and frustrated.


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## Beekissed (Mar 6, 2012)

I think it was just the opposite.  I think he thought the noise from the goat and the activity of trying to subdue a struggling goat meant _you_ were trying to assert your dominance over this animal.   I think he was trying to get some attention by barking outwards towards the fence, and he was trying to assert dominance over your goat just like one sees other dogs do when trying to establish pack hierarchy.  

I had a dog that would get highly upset when my boys would wrestle on the ground in the yard and would bark at them, then try to ride one of them while they were down.  He would also get upset when they would sleigh ride and scream while going down the hill...he would stand in front of the sleds so they could not go down and try to run in front of the sled and try to stop it.  

Same reason a hen or two will come up and peck a bird that you have pinned to the ground so you can pick her up...if she is squawking and flapping during this episode, invariably a hen will run up and try to peck her and the rooster may try to get in on the action as well.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 6, 2012)

Depends on the LGD.  Most LGD's are guarding the animals not the owner.


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## redtailgal (Mar 7, 2012)

Dogs will hump or ride something that they feel superior or dominate over, to prove to others and themselves that they hold a certain "Position" in the hierarchy.  When they bond with a person, that person becomes part of the pack, and when they bond with a herd, they too become part of the pack.  The LDG is a "middle man", who must guard the leader and will do so aggressively if needed, as the leader is the most important pack member, and without the leader, packs will often experience extreme hardship.  The herd becomes a very low level of the pack, almost "puppy" status.  Interstingly enough, in a wild pack situation, the middle dogs guard the pups, giving their lives to defend the next generation even thought the pups would have been sired by the alpha male and female, and not the middle dogs.

The dog guards "his" livestock, but submits to "his" master.  This puts a dog in a difficult and often confusing position.  Being alpha dog, is relatively easy once the dog asserts himself.  Being lowest on the pack order is easy, once you become accustomed to it.  But being the middle of the pack is the hardest position for a dog to have.  The dogs lower on the pecking order try to gain some status, while the higher ups must maintain their status.

What you described is quite normal in a pack situation (an LGD is going to view the owner at the alpha and his herd as the subordinates).  Most often, in a pack situation, if the alpha feels the need to dominate a low level pack member, the dogs in the middle of the hierarchy, will feel as though their position is being threatened.  This middle dog will often attack something else, to prove to himself and to the leaders that he is still worthy of his postion.  The dog will also do something to demonstrate to the lower pack members that his status still stands.

I dont think this dog was confused or frustrated at all, I think it was quite the opposite.  His behavior was exactly what he should have done given the circumstances, and shows a well adjusted dog that is comfortable and willing to defend his status in the pack.  

Give your dog a cookie, he did his job.


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## Beekissed (Mar 7, 2012)

You said it much better than I, Red!


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## treeclimber233 (Mar 10, 2012)

I thought he was trying to distract me from what I was doing so I was correct in that assumption.  He certainly sounded like there was something in the woods  I needed to  check out.

As to why I was cutting the horn--The horn is growing around toward his skull.  It is too thick to cut.  I had to give up.  I know there is blood in the base of the horn. I was only trying to cut the tip off.  His horn is too big to band.  It is probably 2 1/2 inches around at the base if not bigger.  I think he is going to be a candidate for the dinner table.  How does buck meat taste?  He is around 2 1/2 - 3 years old.


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