# 4 year old male pygmy goat sick



## plasiter67@gmail.com (Nov 11, 2012)

I have a four year old male pygmy goat who was castrated at birth.  May 2012 he had urinary calculi and we had to extract all urine, give him and injection to break up the stones.  He was dehydrated and stayed over night on fluid IV.  We completely changed the food, no more grains and orchard and alfalfa hays along with alfalfa pellets. 

 Monday, Oct 29, 2012 I took him back in and he was blocked again.  They did the procedure a second time.  He was fine a day, then on Wednesday, he blocked again.  and the procedure was done again.  I was told to give some lemon juice to further break up any urine stones, keep the ph low.  The vet did not feel he needed any antibiotics or banamine.  Nor did they did not feel he needed to stay over on IVs this time, as i saw the symptoms quickly.  However, on Friday i noticed blood in his urine.  The vet said it was not uncommon having undergone trauma to the bladder twice in a short time, so watch him for a week.  It has been a week, and he is no longer having bloody urine, although i did not see any urine from yesterday or today.  As a side note,  I consulted a second vet as well in the last week, and their answer was the same.  Just wait it out.   He is still very weak and only walks to get water and salt, then returns to sit in the barn.  He is eating vey little, sometimes only apples, some orchard grass hay and water.  I can feel his back hip bones now.  Tonight I noticed very runny, diarrhea.  I have not seen any urine and his brother seems to be bullying the food bowls.   Since last Monday, his food again was adjusted, this time i was told not to allow them to eat any alfalfa hay or pellets, and only feed orchard hay or a mixed oat/barley/wheat hay.  He is not real fond of the new hay, and  i see very little eating.  

I am concerned with the diarrhea and already being ill, it has been two weeks now, and still very weak . I had him separated initially from his brother, to monitor urination and eating, but it was becoming too stressful for both.  Even thought they could see each other across the yard, and hear each other, they were stressing.  They are blood brothers, same litter, and never out of sight of each other before.  (I took big brother to the vet for comparison when sick, and aide in the ride.)  

I will call the vet in the am, but is there anything i should do now?  i am concerned that i may not getting the best advice from my vet.  There are very few reument vets in our area, a lot of horse vets who care when in emergency,  but only one in the area who sees goats on a regular/well check basis.   

Thank you,  Alexis


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## kstaven (Nov 11, 2012)

I don't understand the alfalfa ban. It's a great protein source and if your vet thinks it causes further stones he is way behind in his knowledge base.

Secondly, he is weak from the surgery, and rumen upset is not unusual. Yogurt can be your friend here to get the digestive enzymes back on track quickly and stop the diarrhea.

If you have a cheese making facility near then grab the whey. It is a very quick way to boost protein intake and get weight back  on.

Boosting his diet with red cell would not hurt either.

As to the blood in the urine. He is correct that with the break up of stones and resultant tissue damage blood after the fact can happen. As long as it is not excessive riding it out is not bad advice.


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## kstaven (Nov 11, 2012)

How many apples is he eating? Too many and not enough other food along with any rumen upset can see them ferment in his system and cause further upset.


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## plasiter67@gmail.com (Nov 12, 2012)

My goat has eaten probably two apples, small from the organic orchard in town, and a few baby carrotts.  He ate a branch from my rose bush, also with no fertilizers or pestisides. all natural, with 10 leaves at the most, and a few bites of hay.  His eyes are bright and he is relaxed around me, accept when i pet his stomach, side area.  His body stiffens and he ripples his fur, but does not try to move away or head butt me as before when his bladder is blocked.  I notice a lump on his right side,  up towards spine.  I try not to over analyze everything, but i am new to goats, these guys are the family pets, and understand that a blocked bladder and poor rumenating are both serious issues for the goats.    Thank you for your advice.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 12, 2012)

What state are you in, maybe someone knows of another vet you could consult with.

I sure hope your boy gets better soon.


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## plasiter67@gmail.com (Nov 13, 2012)

Thank you for all your suggestions!  The vet came out today, and she feels it may actually now be acorn poisoning, on top of the bladder recovery.  My goats eat acorns all the time, but when the doctor said "No more alfalfa pellets", they were balking at just hay, so I gave the goats an extra large quantity.  Apparently, in th fall, when acorns are fresh, they can be toxic.  With an already compromised state of health, the accorns maybe even that much more detrimental.  She is running some blood tests and i should know more in the morning.  For now, i am to give him mineral oil and milk magnesium every three hours.  He is not happy with that regimen!  Again, thank you for the support, it is a new area for me.  I have 40 years of rabbits, dogs and cats, lots of other random pets-snake, gecko, fish, hamster, etc, but new to goats and the ruminant group!  But, Boy do I LOVE them!!!


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## SkyWarrior (Nov 13, 2012)

I read someplace that oak can cause poisoning, so no acorns or oak leaves.

If you can find it, give your guy a squirt of probiotics daily and look to pick up some bova seri (Sp?)  It will help with his immune system.

Good luck with your goat!


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## babsbag (Nov 14, 2012)

My goats LOVE acorns and oak leaves. But I can see where  they might compromise and already sick goat. We cut down oak trees for fire wood and let the goats strip them for us. In CA where I live there is no possible way that most goats owners could keep oak trees out of the pastures without clear cutting. They are about the only native tree we have other than digger pines. Our goats live and thrive on them.  And acorns are just the added pleasure of fall. Every one that falls off a tree ends up in goat mouth. 

I see them on the  NO NO list all the time, but maybe they are different oak trees, IDK.


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## plasiter67@gmail.com (Feb 16, 2013)

It has been several months, and my goat is back in good spirits and his feisty personality has returned.  I used the red cell and probiotics.  He hated it, and it was a struggle getting in the last few doses in the week. They are now on orchard grass and grazing in my garden.  I try to give them citrus daily, they really like the lemons better than tangerines!!  He is still thinner than prior to illness, but such a happy guy.  Thank you for all the suggestions!


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## SkyWarrior (Feb 16, 2013)

Congrats!!!!


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## Southern by choice (Feb 16, 2013)

glad your guy is better!


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## mjgh06 (Feb 16, 2013)

I am glad your guy is doing better.  Our first goat a wether died from UC - at the time I knew nothing about it and neither did the vets in our area.  I took it on myself to learn everything about it after that.  Apple Cider Vinegar 2cups per 5 gallons of water keeps UC from forming.  I add it to our automatic waterers once a week for our bucks and have never had a problem since.  Also a cranberry block helps - they sell these at TSC for bucks.


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## babsbag (Feb 16, 2013)

plasiter67@gmail.com said:
			
		

> It has been several months, and my goat is back in good spirits and his feisty personality has returned.  I used the red cell and probiotics.  He hated it, and it was a struggle getting in the last few doses in the week. They are now on orchard grass and grazing in my garden.  I try to give them citrus daily, they really like the lemons better than tangerines!!  He is still thinner than prior to illness, but such a happy guy.  Thank you for all the suggestions!


I lost a wether to UC so I am glad to hear that yours is doing good. Feeding my bucks is something I always worry about and since I don't do grain I can't get the ammonium cholride down them. I am going to try the citrus and see if they like it. I never thought of that.

I was feeding my wether almost entirely wheat hay, which is really high in phosphorus. I have since moved my boys back onto alfalfa with a leaf of wheat every week or so. 

Thanks for the idea about the citrus. I can't grow them where I am but being that I am in California it is a pretty inexpensive fruit most of the time.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Feb 16, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> My goats LOVE acorns and oak leaves. But I can see where  they might compromise and already sick goat. We cut down oak trees for fire wood and let the goats strip them for us. In CA where I live there is no possible way that most goats owners could keep oak trees out of the pastures without clear cutting. They are about the only native tree we have other than digger pines. Our goats live and thrive on them.  And acorns are just the added pleasure of fall. Every one that falls off a tree ends up in goat mouth.
> 
> I see them on the  NO NO list all the time, but maybe they are different oak trees, IDK.


*
Mine too, they eat a ton of the native scrub oak and I've never had a problem. *


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Feb 16, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> Thanks for the idea about the citrus. I can't grow them where I am but being that I am in California it is a pretty inexpensive fruit most of the time.


*

Too bad I can't ship you some, I have about 30 citrus fruit trees on my property!!! *


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2013)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> babsbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am jealous. When we lived in the bay area I could grow citrus and just about every other fruit. Stupid me wanted to move to an area where it got hotter in the summer so I could have a nicer garden...and colder in the winter, but I didn't think about that.


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