# My beef is tough!



## GBov (Oct 4, 2011)

As a stop gap between us getting our own calf to fatten up and not having any good beef - supermarket beef is nasty - I bought an 8th of a grass fed cow from a ranch the other side of the state.  It has a nice flavor but OMG its like rubber bands 

Having moved over here from Ireland where ALL cows are grass fed, I do know how to cook grass fed beef and its never been tough like that over there.  So whats up with that?  Why is Florida grass fed beef so tough that I am going to have to stew T-bone steaks?


----------



## Stubbornhillfarm (Oct 4, 2011)

That stinks!  Sorry to hear that.  Here are some possabilities and I'm sure there are others as well.  If the meat is not cut correctly (coming from my husband the butcher) it could be tough.  It has also been our limited experience that if the bovine is around 2 years old when butchered it is great, but if it is 3 or older, it is more tough.  Again, there could be other reasons as well that I am not aware of.  

Now that you know it is tough, this is what I would suggest.  They make gadgets to tenderize the meat.  We eat a lot of wild game and this comes in handy some times.  You can get them at Cabelas.com and plenty of other places.  They really help to make the meat more tender.  Also, marinating the meat will help.  

It is sad to have spent the money and not have it meet your expectations.   I am sure that if they know, the ranch that raised that beef is dissapointed too.  Maybe mention it to them and see what they have to say.  If you don't, you probably won't buy from them again, if you do, they may be able to compensate you in some way and keep you as a customer.  Best wishes!


----------



## jhm47 (Oct 4, 2011)

There are many factors that influence the tenderness/toughness of beef (or any meat for that matter).  There is the age of the animal, genetics of the animal, what the animal was fed, and also the amount of exercise, and the activities that the animal has been doing will also impact it.  Of course, age and genetics are probably the biggest factors.

Personally, I am not a big fan of "grassfed" beef.  I have never eaten any of it that was as good as beef from animals that were corn fed.  I realize that this is my personal taste, and many here would disagree with me.  I like the whiter marbling, vs the more yellow that grassfeds have.  Also, grassfeds are almost always older, thus they will usually be tougher.  I can get my Sim/Angus crosses to 1500 lbs in 14 - 16 months when I really push them on the corn, and this is my favorite beef.  I have the T-bones cut 1" thick, and you can always cut them with a fork.  YUM!!!!!!!

It has also been my experience that supermarket beef is not of the quality of our own, however, I have gotten some that was pretty good.  I guess that varies from area to area.  Here in South Dakota, the markets better have the good stuff, or it won't sell.  We've gotten pretty spoiled with local beef, and won't tolerate the poor stuff.

Better luck next time with your purchase!


----------



## Bossroo (Oct 4, 2011)

Along with genetics, age, etc. , the grass fed beef is almost never hung to age long enough.  They need to age at least 18-22 days. I have eaten at some very fancy restaurants that tauted their organic grass fed beef as the very best steak one can buy with a price tag to match... tough as shoe leather. I learned to save my money real quick. I buy our beef from our neighbor who owns 5,000 acre Sierra Nevada Mountain foothills in Cal. beef ranch ( cattle are a 3 way cross of Polled Hereford x Beefmaster x Shorthorn). After the calves are weaned, they are turned out on irrigated pasture on green grass up to 5 months.  Then they brought in to his  own feed lot, where they are fed alfalfa and corn for at least 120 days that finish at @ 1,000 lbs. I get to pick out the best one out of several hundred head, that would grade at PRIME+++. I butcher myself, hang the carcass for 20-22 days then cut it up myself with my commercial 220, 3phaze meat band saw and 220 commercial meat grinder.  Best tasting, juiciest, cut with a fork tender meat one can ever savor.


----------



## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 4, 2011)

The way our beef guy does it is to only have about 6 or 7 a year and he pastures them but supplements with some concentrate, silage and grains all along so that they develop they marble a bit better. It was hands down the best beef I've ever had.


----------



## GBov (Oct 4, 2011)

I plan to get a yearling as soon as we get a piece of land and give it two acres.  Hay and sweet feed for six to eight months and then eat em.

Thats my plan anyway lol.

Am soooooooo disappointed in my beef but at least its better than the supermarket.  Its like the time I bought a side of free range pork and it turned out to have absolutely NO fat.  None!  Turns out it was a production breed and the exercise it got just kept the fat off of it in a free range situation.  The meat was tasty but it took awhile to learn to cook it so it was juicy and tender instead of dry and fibery.

I shall just have lots of stews adn soups and keep my fingers crossed for a steer of my own.


----------



## Royd Wood (Oct 5, 2011)

Gbov - I hear you loud and clear as we moved to Canada from England 5 years ago and couldnt find local grassfed beef anywhere (big cash crop + fruit area) but did find a lamb which was the worst I have ever tasted.
So 5 years on we are running a Strictly grassfed op using Galloway cattle and Romney sheep. These breeds are very much suited to a life without grain as long as good pasture and hay is available. For the cattle its around 24 to 28 months to finish and the results are fantastic. We run a farm store and have a job to keep up with demand.
Good luck with doing your own


----------



## GBov (Oct 5, 2011)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> Gbov - I hear you loud and clear as we moved to Canada from England 5 years ago and couldnt find local grassfed beef anywhere (big cash crop + fruit area) but did find a lamb which was the worst I have ever tasted.
> So 5 years on we are running a Strictly grassfed op using Galloway cattle and Romney sheep. These breeds are very much suited to a life without grain as long as good pasture and hay is available. For the cattle its around 24 to 28 months to finish and the results are fantastic. We run a farm store and have a job to keep up with demand.
> Good luck with doing your own


LOL!  I have had to re learn cooking with American meat  

Your set up sounds exactly like I want to do but with my budget, 5 acres is about all I can afford.  Still, its enough to keep us in good meat with maybe a little bit to sell to friends and family.  We were driving around today and found two properties in our budget but one was on land that was prone to flooding and the other one was really good but had no pond on the property.

Our wish list is not very long but water is one of them.


----------



## CESpeed (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm no expert by any means but i would thin that if you only have one or two cattle five acres should be plenty if it is mostly pasture.    I'm positive I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.


----------



## Royd Wood (Oct 7, 2011)

CESpeed said:
			
		

> I'm no expert by any means but i would thin that if you only have one or two cattle five acres should be plenty if it is mostly pasture.    I'm positive I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.


I agree CE so please come out from under the chair


----------



## 77Herford (Oct 7, 2011)

I don't feed grain to my cattle.  They do just fine and I like my Hereford meat.


----------



## CESpeed (Oct 7, 2011)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> CESpeed said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah!!! I'm figuring this farm thing out!


----------



## Beekissed (Oct 9, 2011)

I've only tasted grass fed beef once and these were very young steers....around 18 mo.  It was possibly the worst meat I've ever tasted in my life for flavor and toughness.  My other sister had some too and she agreed....it wasn't fit for human consumption.  These were Highland cattle, I don't know if that had anything to do with it.  The dog would barely eat the meat and he eats chicken poop.  

I love deer meat and they are largely grass fed but I do know that right near and during hunting season these deer are consuming lots of mast, so this may make their meat better tasting and more tender.  

If I had grass fed cattle I'd pen them a few weeks prior to processing and throw some grain in them....a few weeks of grains never hurt anyone, IMO.


----------



## kstaven (Oct 9, 2011)

GBov said:
			
		

> As a stop gap between us getting our own calf to fatten up and not having any good beef - supermarket beef is nasty - I bought an 8th of a grass fed cow from a ranch the other side of the state.  It has a nice flavor but OMG its like rubber bands
> 
> Having moved over here from Ireland where ALL cows are grass fed, I do know how to cook grass fed beef and its never been tough like that over there.  So whats up with that?  Why is Florida grass fed beef so tough that I am going to have to stew T-bone steaks?


Another factor could be a highly stressed animal before slaughter. That will destroy a good carcass.

#2 Buy Canadian grassfed. We know how to do it right!


----------



## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 9, 2011)

Stress can be a big factor. We have friends that do beef and the one year a steer broke loose from the round up and ran around the pasture like an idiot for 20 min bellowing and pitching a general snit fit... well he may as well have been shoe leather.  They ended up double grinding the WHOLE thing and using it to cut with venison for bologna.   Nobody in the tri county area lacked for bologna that year.


----------



## Royd Wood (Oct 9, 2011)

Here we go again - anytime grass fed beef is mentioned all the tough as leather / worst beef I've ever had posts turn up and I am aware there is some crap beef out there grass fed and grain fed. 
We are a small full time strictly grass fed (mothers milk, grass and hay) beef and lamb operation and like anything else you have to have the right formula to make it work.
First thing is good pasture and hay otherwise you fail 
Choose your breeds carefully - heritage breeds work well and we chose Galloway beef and Romney lamb
Patience is also part of this as the beef is prime at 28 months and lamb at 10 months
Our big problem here is trying to keep up with demand so it cant be that bad eh


----------



## boothcreek (Oct 9, 2011)

We only keep our cows grassfed too and its the tender every time! Even our butcher has a good word to put in everytime when we get one back from cut and wrap. 

We only keep dexters and they do great on grass only, and for a great finish we give them a couple flakes of alfalfa hay for the last month or so. Grain is only used here to get them from one pen to another lol

Good long aging is key, we insist on 20 days at least. Our butcher is good about aging, he judges the amount of time needed by the fat-cover on each animal. 
We generally butcher ours around 20 months old, and always killed at home during feeding time in the middle of the herd, least stressful place there is(Which i think makes a huge difference).
Excercise is not a bad thing as long as it wasnt thru stress I think. we have 60 acres and at least once a day our herd has to gallop, buck and kick almost the entire lenght of it.


----------



## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 9, 2011)

Wasn't saying  "grass fed = bad " was just saying that stress before butchering = toughest beef I've ever tried in my entire life. It was like beef gum, you could chew it and chew it and chew it.  The other steers they did were fine. Only difference is he kicked up a ruckus for 20 min racing around and freaking out.  I've had good and bad beef each type of finishing and I happen to prefer the way our guy up in PA does it. The beef we got last year was hands down the best beef I've ever had.  We pick up this years order sometime in November or December and update this with this years flavor reviews.


----------



## animalfarm (Oct 9, 2011)

I started selling my grass-fed beef last year. 

 Out of 15 customers, 2 hated the meat. In one case, they said it was so in-edible the dogs wouldn't eat it; it was like chewing wet rawhide. I asked if they still had it and could they bring me back the hamburgers they had cooked along with the uncooked meat. They did. We made up hamburgers from the meat they brought back and had a blind taste test with the neighbours between the customers cooking and our cooking. Everyone was grossed out by the ladies hamburgers. She had cut the meat with way too much filler (which she wouldn't identify) and cooked it half to death and it was every bit as bad as she claimed. Hamburgers made by us from the same meat were devoured with people taking meat home with them. I gave the old couple a refund, because the neighbours ened up eating most of their meat and I really believe they were not trying to pull a fast one. It was a problem with trying to make a dollar go further.

 In the case of the 2nd customer, we had the meat processed at a butcher he really wanted. The butcher aged it 28 days instead of 21 which still should be ok. However, when we inspected the meat the customer received, we found that the butcher did not trim the aged edges off the steaks as he said there wasn't enough fat cap to remove and have the steaks look nice. So he basically delivered meat that was rancid around the edges and I get the PR for it. I truly dislike having to drop my beef off at a processor and not be allowed to see it again until I open the package. I do not think that an inspected facility is any guarantee at all of quality control but the public thinks it is and therefore my grass-fed beef takes a hit.

 Grass-fed beef really does taste different from grain-fed beef. It has a much stronger beefier taste which some people find objectionable and I am ok with that. I never sell a side of beef to a new customer any more, I did learn an important lesson from the old couple, until they have tried both a hamburger and a steak first. I even sold a 4 yr. old cow with the caveat that a nice marinate should be used, and I have requests for more older cow, because the flavour is so good. Must, be because they went through 720 lbs in less then a year.

 I am a bit of a purist though. If you finish your steer with some grain, I don't consider it grass-fed. It is grainfed. If a distinction isn't clearly made, customers will never know why they like one product more then another because it is falsely advertised. Both camps lose this way and, although I love my grass-fed beef, I wouldn't turn down a grain-fed steak from a reputable farm if they slapped it on my plate.

  None of my customers have ever complained about toughness.


----------



## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 9, 2011)

So I think what we're all saying is.. Treat the animals right, cook it the right way and practice food safety and you'll probably end up with decent beef.  L.


----------



## Bossroo (Oct 9, 2011)

I have eaten "grass fed" beef and "organic" beef in some very fancy restuarants in California, Oregon, and Washington that tought that they serve only  "grass fed" and "organic".  I assume that that their chefs know how to select, trim  and properly prepare a steak, judging by the very high fancy prices that they charge and that they have been in business for a number of years. In each case, they have failed the tenderness test (we even had to apply plenty of pressure and several strokes with the steak knives for each piece, then chew and chew each piece untill my jaws hurt) that I am used to enjoying with the grain fed in a feedlot cuts of meat that I can cut easily with a butterknife. It isn't just my wife and I that thaught that the meat was tough, but also expressed by the different friends and family ( even granddaughter 10 & grandson 12 in Cal. and 5 year old grandson in Ore. The two 1 year old grandkids in Cal and Ore. don't count since they can only still gum their meat )  that we were dining with.  I hunt, and I have harvested some pretty mature ( only a few teeth left in their mouths)  bucks and none of them have been anywhere near as taugh.  Can anyone enlighten me as to why this is the case?


----------



## Royd Wood (Oct 9, 2011)

Yes Bossroo I can enlighten you as I have already stated some beef is well below par - you cant turn any old cow out to grass and hay then expect it to be melt in your mouth tenderloin
Years ago I have had grain / corn fed / grass finished beef that tasted fantastic even though it was riddled with omega 6 but no denying it was good.  
Some farmers are very good at grass fed beef and some are cashing in - just except that and hopefully one day you will have a slice of prime grass fed beef that you enjoy


----------



## Royd Wood (Oct 9, 2011)

Bossroo said:
			
		

> I hunt, and I have harvested some pretty mature ( only a few teeth left in their mouths)  bucks and none of them have been anywhere near as taugh.  Can anyone enlighten me as to why this is the case?


Yep I love deer meat too but to think they are grass fed is crazy as they hang around in a gazzillion acre cash croppers GMO corn fields esp the ones with only a few teeth


----------



## kstaven (Oct 10, 2011)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> Here we go again - anytime grass fed beef is mentioned all the tough as leather / worst beef I've ever had posts turn up and I am aware there is some crap beef out there grass fed and grain fed.
> We are a small full time strictly grass fed (mothers milk, grass and hay) beef and lamb operation and like anything else you have to have the right formula to make it work.
> First thing is good pasture and hay otherwise you fail
> Choose your breeds carefully - heritage breeds work well and we chose Galloway beef and Romney lamb
> ...


You summed it up well. Too many people trying to cash in and at the same time not knowing how or cutting corners. But it does give those doing it right a very committed clientele once they get a reputation.


----------



## Bossroo (Oct 10, 2011)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> Yes Bossroo I can enlighten you as I have already stated some beef is well below par - you cant turn any old cow out to grass and hay then expect it to be melt in your mouth tenderloin
> Years ago I have had grain / corn fed / grass finished beef that tasted fantastic even though it was riddled with omega 6 but no denying it was good.
> Some farmers are very good at grass fed beef and some are cashing in - just except that and hopefully one day you will have a slice of prime grass fed beef that you enjoy


Is that an offer to supply me with some of your "prime grass fed beef" ?  At least here in  " The Golden State " of California where there is precous little rain ( where the State turns a golden brown from May to Nov. and the green grass maybe reaches 6" tall before ataining the golden hue)  ...  Unless one turns the beef on very well managed year round irrigated pastures, it ain't going to happen. The price of irrigation water is so high that the only crops that is worth irrigating is fruit orchards, grapes, field crops, alfalfa and the largest conssumers of water CITY LAWNS. . Beef are ranged in them thar "Golden Hills" then go to feed lots to gain that marbling between the muscle fibers. As for marketing old beef range cows and spent dairy cows as "grass fed "...  Where are the "food cops" when you need them.  In the meen time, I am done being ripped off with any restaurant that has "grass fed" or "organic" on their menu.


----------



## Bossroo (Oct 10, 2011)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> Bossroo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where I hunt deer on the Cal. Coast Range and the Sierra Nevada Mountains... there isn't any corn much less ANY GMO crop to be seen for HUNDREDS of MILES... you see there is NO IRRIGATION  WATER to be had to support any type of agriculture other than range cattle and sheep and they only consume the dry "golden " grass and other forbe forage and Oak tree acorns and berries from wild berry bushes. I haven't seen or even heard of a live deer neer our ranch at the base of the Sierra Nevada Mountains in at least 15 years, so there is NO POSIBILITY that any of the deer that I have harvested to actually have eaten even one morcel of any GMO crop.


----------



## jhm47 (Oct 10, 2011)

This is completely off topic, but IMHO, GMO (I assume you mean Genetically Modified Organisms) is far superior to non-GMO in quality.


----------



## Royd Wood (Oct 10, 2011)

Bossroo said:
			
		

> Royd Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds nice - Sorry Bossroo I was refering to my area which is cash crop land soy and corn and if your ever up to Niagara Falls drop me a line and we will spoil you with some real grass fed Galloway beef


----------



## GBov (Oct 13, 2011)

In Ireland there is no such thing as grain fed beef, they all eat grass or silage.  And its all good  so I was just really REALLY surprised at my flavorful shoe leather.  Even the ground beef is tough!

But it has a good flavor so its lots of soups, stews, chili and spaghetti and the like.

And we are shopping for a piece of land right now so we can raise our own.  Wish us luck cause we are going to need it!


----------



## kstaven (Oct 14, 2011)

GBov said:
			
		

> In Ireland there is no such thing as grain fed beef, they all eat grass or silage.  And its all good  so I was just really REALLY surprised at my flavorful shoe leather.  Even the ground beef is tough!
> 
> But it has a good flavor so its lots of soups, stews, chili and spaghetti and the like.
> 
> And we are shopping for a piece of land right now so we can raise our own.  Wish us luck cause we are going to need it!


What you need to remember is that your cattle have been historically raised on grass and are conditioned to it. While North American versions of the same base breed have been selectively bred to thrive on another diet and many have really lost most of the capacity to thrive, stay in condition, and produce a good beef carcass on grass alone.

For example: I've seen cattle like the Dexter in Ireland. Stand them next to most North American Dexters and you will see how they have been changed since being imported decades ago.


----------



## goodhors (Feb 6, 2012)

How much acreage you need per animal is totally dependent on how well your pasture will grow over the season.  
Western ranchers can need from 100 acres to over 300 acres per cow/calf unit, to get the calf ready for late season weaning.
Here in the eastern side of the Midwest, we have plenty of grass because of the abundant rain over summer.  Might get a
few weeks of drought in the heat of summer, but seldom more than 4weeks.  If you keep your pastures here in good condition, 
not too many animals for the size acreage, the cattle will still have plenty to eat in the dry times and way into fall.

Other areas in the Midwest or in the USA might not get the same rain, so you do need more acreage for each animal, to prevent 
having to buy hay in the dry times.

We have always done grass fed, with small amounts of grain supplements to keep them friendly when handled.  They had 
excellent carcass quality, and we processed by weight, not age.  None went much over 2 years, about 1000 pounds live.  However we
are not commercial raisers, only do 1-2 animals at a time.  The animal does get a good size feeding of grain mix daily, with his 
pasture grass for the last six weeks before processing.  With being on pasture getting exercised, the grain spreads  fat thru the 
meat for good marbling, so they would certainly rate Prime as carcasses if sold.  All the cuts were fork tender, didn't really need a 
knife for anything.

I would suggest you not hold out for a pond on any property.  Cattle will really tear up the edges, foul the water with urine and poop,
get stuck in the mud or ice in winter.  People on here have lost calves when cows dropped them beside the pond edges.  It truly is 
easier to keep cattle watered out of a tank, year around.   Ponds also will be mosquito hatcheries, so you are much more exposed to diseases they 
carry, and the animals are more chewed up by the bugs.  Ponds with no fresh water like a spring will dry up in heat, exposing more mud
to get stuck in, get stinky, and breed nasty stuff in the depths.

Even having a pond on-site, doesn't mean the Fire Department will use the dirty water if you should have a fire.  Scum can wreck the 
EXPENSIVE pumps and contaminate the hoses of Fire vehicles.  They only pull water from previously approved sites, and it takes work 
to get that water location approved, kept approved over time.  Learned that at a Farm Safety clinic and was quite surprised.  All water 
is NOT equal when Fire Truck needs water refills.

So if the choices you can afford are between pond w/small acres, and big acreage w/no pond, go for the big acreage.  You will ALWAYS 
find a way to use that extra space.  Maybe you could dig a pond on it later!!


----------



## Royd Wood (Feb 6, 2012)

Norma Fay said:
			
		

> That's awful that you ended up with such tough meat. I have been eating <a href="http://www.lacensebeef.com/why-la-cense.aspx">Grass Fed Beef</a> from La Cense for over a year now and that has never been a problem that I've run into. I would recommend trying them out. There meat has a great flavor and they have really high standards as to quality. Best of all they offer a money back guarentee, so you really can't go wrong giving them a try.


 Norma - for a spammer I'll give you credit for persistence  Now just go away to another forum


----------



## Hillsvale (Feb 6, 2012)

GBov said:
			
		

> Royd Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Except its not american meat...


----------



## dreamriver (Feb 6, 2012)

grass fed meat also needs to be cooked slower and at a lower heat to compensate for less 'marbling' in the meat.  I agree with all the others about aging, stress etc affecting taste and quality.


----------



## Stubbornhillfarm (Feb 7, 2012)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> Norma Fay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------

