# Starting a Pasture - Help



## Mackay (Aug 31, 2009)

We are starting a small pasture, 1.5 acre and we just cut all the sagebrush, its ground up now as well as all the weeds, laying on top and will soon get plowed  under.  Local farmers have advised us to use round up and 24D herbicides, I guess, early in the spring.

I worry about round up toxicity and know nothing about the other.
Don't expect we will put animals on it till the following summer.

Any suggestions?  We have tumble weed to contend with!

Thanks

Mackay


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## Mackay (Aug 31, 2009)

Oh, btw, Hi! I'm new here but expect many folks here are on the gardening and selfsufficient forum too.

Do goats eat tumble weed?

Eventually the pasture will be for 2 head of cattle.

In two years the pasture will be expanded to about 2.5 acre.


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## jhm47 (Sep 1, 2009)

Roundup (chemical name is Glyphosate) is one of the safest herbicides on the market.  It has replaced many other chemicals that were far more toxic and damaging to the environment.  Roundup kills plants by inhibiting an enzyme that is needed for the plants to live.  This crucial enzyme is not present in anything except plants.  Roundup is also destroyed by coming into contact with the ground.  Therefore, any that is spilled, or doesn't land on the plants will be inactivated very quickly.  

2,4-D is an old chemical.  In my opinion, it is not quite as safe as Roundup.  It is a plant growth regulator.  It kills only broadleaf plants, and not grasses.  

The two chemicals are an excellent combination to kill brush and other weeds.  I would recommend that you go for it.  Be sure to hire someone that is qualified to apply these chemicals.  Ask to see his commercial pesticide applicator's license.  Good luck!


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## jhm47 (Sep 1, 2009)

Forgot to add:  Applying these chemicals in the fall is best.  You will achieve a much better result by applying in the fall, when the plants are taking in nutrients to store in their roots for winter.

As to goats---I haven't a clue as to what they eat.  As far as I know, they will eat most anything, but I'm not sure if some of the "anything" is good for them.


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## big brown horse (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi Mackay!!  

(Wont pigs clear all that for you?  I'm not a pig farmer, but I think our neighbor would use his hogs to clear _and till _the land at the same time fertilize it...could be wrong.  Round up scares me.)


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## Mackay (Sep 1, 2009)

PIGS!

OMG NO NO No!

not for me, thank you.

I've read that round up can affect hormones, and not the main ingredient, but something else they put it in that breaks down the waxy surface on a plant so the glyco whatever can get into it. Then there seems to be an issue that some unknown acid remains in the soil. Monsanto will not reveal what that acid exactly is.... so when they can not be front and center how can I trust?

All in all roundup takes about 2 years to fully breakdown, except for this mysterious acid that remains... 

Most of the farmers where we will be going use it. 
Seems we could claim organic status in about 3 years after use. 

Sill hoping to hear of alternatives. 

Thanks jhm for responding. I wish I was a confident as you.... and perhaps we were told to apply in the fall, I wasn't in on the conversation so maybe I got it wrong.  Seems like all the plants are scraped off and pulverized right now so I'm not sure it matters.

We have some broadleaf plant but certainly not much, its all sage brush, tumble weed and a few scattered grasses, cheet grass.


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## miss_thenorth (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi Mackay!!

When we seeded our horse pasture from scratch a few years ago, we just tilled up what was weeds really well and threw down pasture seed.  then the following year, Used round up on the really bad weed areas, (and there were NOT alot,) harrowed the field again and threw down more seeds.


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## bibliophile birds (Nov 11, 2009)

if your aim is organic status, i wouldn't start out by relying on chemicals. there are tons of opinions on the matter, but i, for one, won't use anything Monsanto makes if it can be avoided. even if we weren't working towards being organic and sustainable, i just can't stomach giving my money to a company that denies farmers the right to save their own seeds and seems to make it a part of their business model to destroy the lives of anyone who doesn't want to play their game.

goats would probably do a really nice job of clearing that off for you. we've got one specifically for keeping fence rows clean and ridding the place of poison ivy. i know lots of people who destroyed kudzu that had taken over a lot of their land with a few well places goats. in fact, the city of Chattanooga, here in Tennessee, has an official goat and llama patrol that clears kudzu up around the city (it's a huge problem here in the South). don't know about tumbleweed specifically, but i haven't found anything our goat won't eat, or anything that's made him sick.

good luck!


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## freemotion (Nov 11, 2009)

Time to do some research, M!  Find out exactly what you have in your pasture, and what the goats and cows will eat, and what they will eat that might harm them.  You will find many plants listed as poisonous that well-fed animals simply won't touch, some that they have to gorge on massive quantities for there to be a problem, and some plants that they not only will eat but that a small quantity can be tragic.  So start picking bits of plants and bringing them to the computer to identify.  I really like the poisonous plant list for goats on www.fiascofarm.com because it addresses the above problems with many lists out there.

As you know me from ss, I take a more natural and sustainable approach.  That can take either more time or more money, but to me, is more cost effective in the long run if such ways are really important to you....balanced, of course, with the needs of your family.  

I have been improving my "new" pasture bit by bit, year by year, with intensive grazing (I am the cow, with my scythe, as the goats can't keep up without the mare to help anymore...) and by finding out what the plants I want to encourage like and what the ones I want to discourage don't like.  Mostly enriching the soil with a 3-4 inch layer of composted manure, leaves, yard waste, and anything I can get my neighbors to dump over the fence for me, along with what my animals supply me with.  Also, lime is essential here.  Since starting this project maybe five years ago, I have continued to adjust my thinking.  I actually overseeded with dandelions a couple of years ago, as they are highly nutritious, and planted comfrey in one spot, and stopped gloving up and ripping out nettles.  I now remove the large seed heads of plants like burdock rather than trying to eradicate them.  Another nutritious plant.  And I am not liming one end of the field to encourage a patch of wild raspberries that are growing there, since the goats love that stuff.

You can get more great ideas by researching Joel Salatin's methods of intensive grazing.  I requested Salad Bar Beef from our local library for some winter reading to prepare for spring pasture improvement.


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## ducks4you (Nov 12, 2009)

For what it's worth,  my horses took 3 acres of corn (fenced in and gated, but part of my 5 acre property) and re-seeded it with grass, fescue and clover.  This happened from just grazing.
BTW, I noticed that farmers in our area are starting to make big bales out of soybean and corn stalks left over after harvest.  Has anyone else seen this?  I've never seen it here before this fall, and, I assume it's going to feed cattle.


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## Shoshana (Dec 2, 2009)

If you till the pasture under, chickens will be more than happy to eat your weed seeds and fertilize the area, and you'll get delicious, 'free' eggs out of the deal.   BTW...


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## Imissmygirls (Dec 2, 2009)

it's normal in the East to bale the corn fodder and even the soybean fodder for winter bedding in the group pens. It's dry and absorbent and the dairy farmers don't have to buy it if it's already on their field. I don't see anyone selling it, but the farmers who have it , use it.


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## BDial (Dec 2, 2009)

The stalks are being used here as extra cow bedding.


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## jhm47 (Dec 2, 2009)

We utilize cornstalks here.  It's amazing how much the cows will eat.  They pick through them and eat most of the husks, cobs, and leaves, then they begin to chew on the coarse stalks.  Sure, they waste quite a bit of the really coarse parts, but they use that as bedding, and when the ground gets really cold, they can keep themselves up on a nice bed of stalks.


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