# I NEED 'Pooch Test' Opinions PLEASE!! PICS are Graphic-worst 1 deleted



## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 3, 2012)

If you have a weak stomach or are eating/drinking right now, you might wanna skip the first pic, her rear end is pretty bad with poo due to poor care before I brought her home. 

4 days ago I brought home 2 pygmy does. I broke the cardinal rule of not buying an animal that appears sick to 'save it', and now I am doing my best to restore her health. 

Both does were with a pygmy buck for several months and supposedly have kidded before (guy was an animal flipper, I think), but not much more info available, other than one doe had triplets and the other a singleton. The sick one is supposed to be between 2 and 3 years old, and the bigger doe is supposed to be between 4 and 6 years old.

These are my first pygmy goats, but have had goats before for a short time. 


The sick goat, Eloise, had BAAAAAAAAD diarhhea, I had my vet out immediatley, and she got wormed, got an anti-inflammatory, got her on probio's , and was put on Corrid for coccidiosis (had a fecal done on her and she had a heavy load of worms and cocci). Her poo is just today firming up, PLEASE excuse her nasty butt, I dont want to stress her more yet by trying to clean her up. I am waiting till her cocci treament is done in 3 more days. She is up and walking and eating and drinking and being vocal, but I can tell she still isnt 100%.

Anyhow, I am worried Ellie may be pregnant, not a good thing with how sick she has been. Im not doing any blood preg tests or ultrasound, I am hoping you guys can see past the poopy butt and tail and check out her "Pooch". If the picture isnt clear enough, no worries, but I dont want to put her through any more photo ops! 

I was holding her tail up and ALL pics are from behind (obviously!  ) and behind/above. 

DELETED THE GROSS ONE! Ya'll are welcome! (it was pretty bad) 

This is Ellie from above







These are pics of Sophie (the NOT sick doe)

Im NOT holding her tail up- she usually holds it higher though- she got shy last minute






Here I AM holding her tail up






And here she is from the rear/top







Opinions on pregnancy based on these pooch test pics would be WONDERFUL!! I Know its not an exact science, but I sure could use some help!

Thanks!


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 3, 2012)

Okay, I don't get grossed out too easily, but I was eating. 

I would say, if they are, maybe no more than 3 months. But nothing is screaming for sure pregnant to me. But with poor nutrition they may not be as likely to show all the typical pregnancy signs.

Good luck with them.


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorry- I know that was kinda gross.....it wasnt fun getting that pic either!


Ive been looking everywhere for good pooch test pics, found a few, but Im not so good at figuring it out myself. 


Does anyone think Sophie, (the not sick one that is bigger in the belly) is just bigger because she is healthier than Eloise, or does she look pregnant?

Neither doe has any udder development, Sophie's udder just feels a tad swollen, not flat to her tummy...


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## ksalvagno (Jan 3, 2012)

It really is hard to say with a pooch test. I think it will be a wait and see. That was great that you were willing to take in the goats and bring them back to health. I would just watch. She should start developing an udder about a month prior to kidding.


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 3, 2012)

I am thinking Ellie isnt preg- a VERY good thing, she needs to recouperate.  One thing weird about her is that her rump, right before her tail cone is VERY slanted, like her back is arched just in that spot, and her ligaments are soooo very low compared to Sophies. Also she is VERY touchy about me touching her udders/teats. She lets me touch her anywhere else, but puts up a real fight if I try to touch her there. They dont fell enlarged though, and her teats are soft and squishy.

As for Sophie, if it helps at all, the last pic where I am holding her tail up, that is almost exactly what she looks like when she is holding her tail up herself (which she does normally all the time so far). The deep V under the tail (above the anus) seen in the first pic of her is there only when she isnt holding her tail up, otherwise it is almost not there, like in the 2nd pic.

Not sure if I want her pregnant or not. I am VERY concerned about her having babies near the area where Ellie has been (fearing possible kid contamination from old cocci germs). Not to mention I dont think she has been treated too well nutritionally up till now.




Any other opinions?


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 4, 2012)

I was thinking that sophie looked a little pregnant, and really wanted to beable to reach underneath her and feel for a start of an udder. I think in 3 or 4 weeks you will beable to tell for sure, if that is an udder starting it should keep changing and growing, especially with good nutrition. 

good luck.


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 4, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> I was thinking that sophie looked a little pregnant, and really wanted to beable to reach underneath her and feel for a start of an udder. I think in 3 or 4 weeks you will beable to tell for sure, if that is an udder starting it should keep changing and growing, especially with good nutrition.
> 
> good luck.


What would you be feeling for when feeling for the start of an udder? When I reached under there, it seemed like there was something more than just skin, like a soft, squishy udder water ballon (but like one that had been blown up, deflated, and was starting to fill with water again). I could tell there was some depth to her udder when I rubbed it, I could definately tell where her udder started and stopped, but it was soft and malleable. It just wasnt 'full' or anything, so I really couldnt say 'Oh yeah, she has an udder filling up', ya know?

Weird thing is, Sophie is a hard catch, and doesnt want us to pet her  (yet!), but she couldnt have cared less that I was rubbing her udders! (maybe she has a wierd goat fetish thing?LOl!). She even was letting me lift her rear leg and get a good look and feel (couldnt see much due to her fur). Her teats were kinda big, soft and squishy, not small, or dried up like a doe that hasnt milked ever.

 I know Eloise (the sick one) is very sweet and loves scratches and petting, but boy, she kicked up one heck of a fight when I touched her udder (couldnt feel anything since she was so upset by it, I gave uprather than stress her).

Does any of that make sense?

Any advice on feed or supplements that wont give her diarrhea, and will help her and possible kids?


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 4, 2012)

As far as the udder, what you are saying makes sense. What you are feeling could be just left over udder tissue from previous kiddings, but there is a certain water balloon feel to it as it starts to fill, so it almost sounds to me like she could be bred. 


I would start out with just a good quality mixed grass hay, then I would add either some alfalfa hay or start adding alfalfa pellets to her diet. 

I would get some Goat grain, pelleted, and give her 1/2 a cup to start with a day, then after three or 4 days, go up 1/4 cup and keep doing this until she is at 1 cup of grain a day, maybe 1 1/4 cups. plus all the hay she can eat. Alfalfa hay can make them bloat if they aren't used to it, so start out with just a couple handfuls, or offer alfalfa pellets, the same as the grain, starting out with a small amount and bumping it up every 3 or 4 days. 

Get some Loose goat minerals and keep it out in a small feeder in the shelter.


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 4, 2012)

Thank you so much!

I think I am doing alot of what you reccomend, but a few variations-

She was on pure alfalfa hay and no grains when I got her (same with eloise), the vet currently has her and Ellie on Corrid for the cocci infection (sophie has no diarrhea, but he said to treat them both anyways) also they are on pro-bios.

I have been feeding 3-way hay (3 mixed grains hay), but feed store is out of that, so I had to buy 50/50, a alfalfa and orchard grass mix, but they wont get that till tomorrow (free feed that all day and night). Have been giving Sophie about 1/2 a cup of goat chow as a reward for being good about taking her meds (and its soooo fun to have them lick the food outta our hands!  ). 

Also, I put out a salt mineral lick block out for them both, I assumed that was ok and not dangerous for them (i think its the same kind i would give my horses, not for sheep). 
Should I get the Loose minerals instead? Will they hurt my chickens? My chickens free range and could get into pretty much anything I put out for the goats.

She got a shot of Ivomectin recently, should I re-worm anytime soon? (if she is preg)


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## autumnprairie (Jan 4, 2012)

pridegoethb4thefall said:
			
		

> Thank you so much!
> 
> I think I am doing alot of what you reccomend, but a few variations-
> 
> ...


yes loose minerals instead, it has been said that goats don't get enough minerals in a block.

some one will chime in about worming that know more than I do. Elevan has a link on the bottom of her posts on worms


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 4, 2012)

I don't know about chickens and the loose goat minerals. 

as far as worming, I would wait 3 weeks and have a fecal done again. see how they are doing .  But ivermectin and safegaurd are considered safe during pregnancy. Although it is better to not worm in the first trimester, but being anemic and having parasites isn't very healthy for the pregnancy either. 

Sounds like they are getting a lot of good care from you.


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## Mamaboid (Jan 5, 2012)

My chickens have access to the loose minerals for my goats, and they peck at it once in a while but for the most part they just ignore it.


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks for the info- I will be getting the loose minerals tommorow. What do I put them in? (Im assuming its a kind of powder-ish form, so in a bowl or something?)


Today Sophies vulva looked kinda swollen and would kinda 'wink' open a tiny bit. Sorry, I know that sounds gross, not to mention Im a tad embarrassed saying it just because it speaks volumes as to how often/closely Im watching my goats' hoo-haa!

Does the 'winking' mean anything? Maybe winking isnt the right word, it just looked like it was opening up a bit, and then would shut when she walked off.




geez I feel like a weirdo


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