# Selling kids for profit, personal experiences please!



## trix42 (Dec 23, 2009)

Hello everyone!

I am about to purchase a small herd of Saanens, purebred with great pedigree. Part of the money I am using to purchase them is a loan from my darling mother.

Now, my mother has talked to someone who owns a commercial goat dairy. He told her how there is no money in milk and they pour milk down the drains. Regardless of the fact this is NOT what I intend to do with my goats (not commercially milking!), she has it in her head now that it is a bad idea and that goats can't be profitable.

My plan is to breed the does very carefully, sell the kids and keep the best does for personal use. I want to make goats milk soap and cheese/yogurt/etc to sell to family and friends, and sell the soap online. I plan to sell the culls for meat as there is a huge demand for goat meat in my area (very ethnic!). I am also getting two Saanen crosses who will be bred with Boer bucks to produce meat goat kids.

In my area, kids sell fast. Dairy mutts sell for upwards of 400 dollars! After looking into it, I am confident I can sell these future kids for a decent price. No one is talking about getting rich, just making enough to sustain the goats and have some left over. Also, I desire to be self sufficient if **** hits the fan and the food shortages that are rumoured to be imminent, do in fact happen. Owning your own herd of goats and chickens is a good start to keeping family and friends fed.

If anyone could share their experiences selling kids (purebred or not, doesn't matter) I would be very grateful.

Cheers!


----------



## mully (Dec 23, 2009)

Here is a site that might be of interest to you. 

http://www.boermeatgoats.com/

It is very possible to make money from goats but you need to do your homework ...have a definable plan so that you do not loose money and time. This site is selling goats so keep in mind that they want to sell their program but read their topics as it offers good ideas. There is money to be made in meat goats and you have selected a good breed .... Best of luck !!


----------



## trix42 (Dec 23, 2009)

mully said:
			
		

> Here is a site that might be of interest to you.
> 
> http://www.boermeatgoats.com/
> 
> It is very possible to make money from goats but you need to do your homework ...have a definable plan so that you do not loose money and time. This site is selling goats so keep in mind that they want to sell their program but read their topics as it offers good ideas. There is money to be made in meat goats and you have selected a good breed .... Best of luck !!


Thank you kindly, that site has a lot of great info. Wonderful.

I have been doing research into it, and since kids are hot sellers in my area I think I would be able to sell them for decent money. I haven't wrote up a business plan though, which I definitely should. Selling soap might be tricky, but goats milk and cheese are also popular in my area thanks to the large ethnic population.


----------



## ksalvagno (Dec 23, 2009)

Just make sure you are allowed to sell milk and cheese without a license. Many states have strict policies on that. Here in Ohio you have to get a grade A dairy license and the cost to have that is greater than the money you can make for most people unless you are a large operation.


----------



## Roll farms (Dec 23, 2009)

Keep in mind the cost of vaccines, dewormers, occasional vet emergencies, etc.

I've heard a lot of folks say, "I had no idea goats were so expensive" b/c the old rumor is they'll eat anything and are hardy.

With good routine care and breeding for health as well as milk / show quality, they can be profitable...but it ain't always cheap.

We've had 10 kids born here so far in December, 6 have sold, 2 are keepers, and 2 will be leaving as soon as 2 more are born (the buyer wants 4 kids).  I sell my kids mainly for 4-H and replacement breeding stock.

We have a mixed meat and dairy herd....we don't sell the milk, what we can't use we freeze.  I can't afford to become a grade-A dairy w/ no more output than I can produce by myself.

I don't make a huge profit, but they pay their own upkeep at least and sometimes give me extra money I use to....buy more goats.


----------



## ThornyRidge (Dec 24, 2009)

I have a small herd of 13 and do it mainly as a hobby and because I love goats!  I typically breed two of my nigerians each year which gives me anywhere from 2-6 kids that I keep my fingers crossed people will be willing to buy registered   it seems last year people were not interested in paying for goats and expected me to give them away!  I don't even feel my rates are high.. I ask 75 for wethers and 200-350 for does and 200-250 for bucks.. again depending on kids determines price.. I still have two does from this past spring that I could not sell.. I was however able to sell 2 wethers, a doe and a buck.. that helped a little.. the money I make from the goats goes into my Hay Fund and pays for hay the next year.. so trust me I definately did not quit my day job!  and since I have two kids left from this year I only bred one doe that has consistently give triplets.. so next year I am gonna try to sell those kids and  the two older kids that will soon be a year old in the spring  may try to sell them bred later in summer or fall.. which then I add to the price as well.


----------



## FarmerChick (Dec 24, 2009)

I have Boer goats.
I use the milk for soaps etc. but not for selling milk.  I make personal cheese for the home etc. but do not sell it.  Because I have to be a licensed dairy and I am not fooling with the federal regulations.  That was something I didn't want to follow.

I sell meat kids.  Therefore I bought meat goats to put on the fastest weight and the biggest kids at the least amt. of months.

I go to a graded boer goat auction that is about 1 hr drive away.
Price per lb depends on the market timing.   Be sure you plan your meat kids for the ethnic calender.  Around those holidays is when the meat kid prices go their highest.

be sure your kids hit market no longer than 3 to 3 1/2 mos. old.  After that their growing to profit ratio starts to wane.  (well for Boer kids)

If you truly want to make money, you must think of it as a business and not put these goats into a pet category.  You must learn to give your own shots, learn to doctor on most common health problems, etc.  Cutting costs and keeping expense low is the way most business must run so best advice is be a businessman first.

Know your costs and know your profit etc. and you should do well.


----------



## ohiofarmgirl (Dec 24, 2009)

i think everyone has great advice. keeping costs down is key. two breeders near me say they about break even from the kid sales - to cover their hay/shots costs.

one thing to address tho was the comment that there isnt a market for milk.  which may or may not be true. many people dont have the time or money to set up the licensed dairy operation that a lot of states require. so sure, i know goat folks who dump a ton of milk every day

but

what that person didnt account for is all the people that want milk for their personal use - which is why they want your goats. its hard to find a doe in milk around here, we were lucky to find ours.  i keep thinking there has got to be some money selling milking does... but by the time they have they've freshened you've got a lot of money into them and the kids are a more natural way to get your investment back.

anyway

you may also be able to sell your extra milk 'for pet use only' which ohio allows for....for instance one of the reasons we got goats was for the milk to use in our barnyard - for the poultry and for the pigs.  or this could be one of your selling points - a 'family goat' for personal and barnyard use??

keep doing your research - you're asking great questions!


----------



## mavrick (Dec 24, 2009)

My personal experience is there's no way possible to make any money by raising and selling the kids, if you get half your feed money back and dont have any trouble with kidding or going to the vet, your doing good


----------



## no nonsense (Dec 24, 2009)

I hate to discourage you. I think that it's wonderful to raise goats for your own use, but dairy goats and profit is an oxymoron. Ask yourself this, if it can be done, if it's possible in any way, how many goat dairies do you know that are successful, growing or profitable? Can you name one? If so, can you name even one more? Many people have had hopes of trying it, but it is just extremely difficult.

As others mentioned, maybe you can make a go of it with meat goats with the growing ethnic markets in many places, with Boers only, if you're careful, but heed this advice well:



> *If you truly want to make money, you must think of it as a business and not put these goats into a pet category. * You must learn to give your own shots, learn to doctor on most common health problems, etc.  Cutting costs and keeping expense low is the way most business must run so best advice is be a businessman first.


----------



## freemotion (Dec 24, 2009)

Do research....a lot of it!....in your own area.  Advice here may or may not apply.  I have animals for my own use, and if they pay for their own feed, that's great.  If not, fine, too.  They are pets and for food, and I know which is which.  Sometimes my dh forgets.... :/

I spoke to two goat dairy owners in the past year in CT and both got grants to start up and both sell out and demand is increasing.  One gave me lots of details and a big tour.  He has Saanens, has had them for decades for showing as more of a hobby, and had dairy cows.  He recently got a grant and started his goat dairy (with much dairy experience from the decades with cows, mind you) with about 25 does.  The next year he kept kids for 45 milking does.  This past year he saved doelings to have 90 milking does in the spring to keep up with demand.  

A buyer from Whole Foods discovered his cheese at the farmer's market and contacted him to discuss a contract.  I don't know how that turned out, but he didn't need it, so he wasn't sure what he would do.

He is getting Boer-x bucks to breed some of his does to since he plans to stop at 90 milking does, and will just breed some Saanens, since there is quite a growing market for goat meat here, too.  He is considering eliminating the dairy cows, as they are not nearly as profitable.

If you want to make a living, though, plan on working from before the sun is up until after it goes down, 365 days a year, including holidays, when you have the flu, when you have a wedding or funeral to attend, etc.  So be sure you LOVE it!


----------



## FarmerChick (Dec 25, 2009)

Money can be made and has been by me in meat kids, but one thing I do have---I have 120 acres.  That means I raise my own hay, I have tons of pasture, I live in NC where my grass is still green right now in December and I buy feed by the ton (which is lowest price), I own big trucks and trailers for kid hauling....etc. etc.

sometimes you have to consider truly how that profit is going to come to you..LOL


when you have to BUY everything, that profit margin is considerably cut back!


----------



## stano40 (Dec 25, 2009)

Don't let negative responses dampen your dream.  It's good to read about other's reality and their situation.

Here in Maine there are many small business's that make goat milk soap, goat's for meat and goat milk is coming into it's own up here.  There is a very large dairy goat farm that produce's it's milk for a large dairy farm for resale.

You may not become a millionaire but you'll have the satisfaction of doing something you enjoy.

Go for it!!!  My future with goats is to make my own goat cheese, once my doe's kid and produce milk.  I've never milking a goat before so this is going to be interesting.

bob


----------



## mavrick (Dec 25, 2009)

Where I live its illegal to sell raw goats milk for human consumption.To get the proper licenses and equipment to sell goat milk it would cost a small fortune. you would have to be a big operation betting on a market where there's no information, to me that's not a dream that's a Gamble, as for as soap products and lotions go, your getting into a business competing with proctor and gamble and big companies like like with the only nitch being you have home made products, as far as selling the kids for profit, again you would have to be a big operation raising meat types and be a vet,be related to a vet, or have extensive knowledge of goats health and well being, because a few trips to the vet with emergency fees tacked on or home visit fee at $200.00 a pop will really cut into your profit  when the average price you ll get for a 3 month old kid is about $50.00


----------



## freemotion (Dec 25, 2009)

Depends on where you are!  I made a big batch of soap for myself and brought some to my office to see what the response would be.  It was unscented, I used a storage tote for a mold and did not trim off the ridges that resulted, and cut it roughly.  Every bar had jagged edges and none were the same size or thickness.  I printed out bands and called it "homestead-style."  We do not have a lot of traffic in the office, there are four massage therapists who each work part time.  That soap sold out in a few days, and I am still getting requests for more.  

I have many requests for milk, yogurt, and kefir, which I mostly refuse.  I do sell some to close friends (who understand and appreciate that it will cost MORE than what they get at Costco, not less, as it is produced without cruelty, which they value as much as I do) and I sell it to them for their cats......


----------



## ksalvagno (Dec 25, 2009)

There is certainly nothing wrong with trying things to see if they work for you. Some people find a real niche market for the soaps and lotions and do make some good money. I know one woman who makes lotion and she has 2 shops that buy large quantities from her. There are times when she is literally working around the clock to get an order done.

The biggest thing is doing what you like. If you don't like doing it, then stop. The animals are a lot of work and doing things like soap making are also a lot of work. If you choose to sell your milk or cheese illegally, then you know you are taking your chances and could be caught so be very careful. I'm sure plenty of people out there do it and hopefully for their sake they aren't talking.


----------



## stano40 (Dec 25, 2009)

Large corporations do not worry about mom & pop operations.  Many people have started doing things for themselves like generations ago.  I would rather have soap made locally than one of the big companies.

For myself I want to try it and see if i can do it mainly for my use.  Maine is a little different in that it is legal to sell raw goats milk here.  The large dairies are not threatened by the small backyard farmer.

I raise chickens for my own use and sell off the remainder.  If my doe's kid this late spring I intend in trying to make goat's milk cheese for my own use and then who knows.  Many small natural food stores do support local farmers and business's which can be a market for the mom and pop operations.

If you look at the big picture and then say "What's the use in trying" you'll never know if it was worth it.

There are a lot of people out there that are tired of commercial grown or made products.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  But do make sure it's legal to do so in your state.


----------



## freemotion (Dec 25, 2009)

Did I read on another thread that the herd consisted of five bred does?  You certainly could test the waters with this small number, without spending oodles of money getting everything to code.  You could let the does suckle the kids, then do the once-a-day milking method, and make lots of cheese, soap, lotions, etc from the milk, and learn about the whole process for a few months.  See what you like to do, and IF you would like to do it on a larger scale.  Then you can downsize or increase your herd in the fall by the number of does you breed or sell.

I plan on having two does next year on a once-a-day schedule, rather than the one doe having to be milked twice a day.  This will hopefully work better for me with my work schedule.  Also, it can be challenging to find someone to milk for you if you HAVE to be away, and for me, it will be easier to find someone to milk once a day.  Just some thoughts for your first year with goats.

It takes very little milk for a batch of soap.  The main ingredient is fat.  I like the idea of soap because you don't have all the legal issues that you have with milk sales, and the buildings and equipment that have to be to code and pass inspections.  You can freeze the milk, too, for use in soap when the does are dry.


----------



## lupinfarm (Dec 25, 2009)

I don't understand why they think that there is no demand for goats milk. It's the hardest thing to find EVER out here. Our grocery stores do not sell goats milk, local dairies don't carry it. 

Some ethnic shops in Toronto and the GTA will have goats milk, but nothing outside of ethnic food stores. The only thing you can find is grocery store feta cheese. 

We've been looking for goats milk for ever for the dogs and the cat, but it's impossible to find.


----------



## freemotion (Dec 25, 2009)

I was purchasing a couple of old glass milk bottles at an antique shop last fall and another customer struck up a conversation.  She breeds dogs and was very excited to find a source of fresh goat's milk.  Apparently, it is very good to feed to puppies when the mother has too many to feed properly.

So there is a real market out there, even without a proper dairy.  How big is the market?  Don't know.


----------



## stano40 (Dec 26, 2009)

Goats milk is also good for rehab center's and zoo's with wild animal babies that need supplemental milk.


----------



## freemotion (Dec 26, 2009)

Uh-oh, I'm talking myself into more goats......


----------



## foxywench (Dec 26, 2009)

i think anyone going into ANY kind of animal for profit is asking for trouble unless your runinng a comercial dairy/meat farm ect...

same goes for any breed and species, with dogs if your making a profit your cutting corners somewhere, with cats its the same, and im sure with livestock on the small scale its absolutly no different.

however all the small scale dairy productions ive talked to say that while they dont make a PROFIT as long as all goes well the animals do, for the most part...support themselves.

now you could definatly have a market offering unpasturized goats milk to dog/cat breeders...
rehab centers wont pay alot, they dont have alot TO pay as most rely on donations, however its a great place to keep in mind for donating the extras you dont use if you dont have the space to freeze it...
both these markets however you NEED to be in the right location, have the right connections and advertising.  craiglist is a good resource for offering to foster homes raising litters ect, but you wont reach any reuatable breeders that way, paying for advertising space in breeder mags is a good idea but eats into what money youll get comming in...
contacting local breeders and vets directly takes alot of time but its usually the best way to get word around in that market...
its definatly there...i honestly dont know how much youll make in that ave though.

i do vector rehab and get 80-90% of my goats milk free from a local back yard hobbiest who has too much milk now her kids have grow up and shed rather not let it waste...
when i need extra/more (ie have alot of racoon/fox kits or have a litter of puppies/orphans ect...) than she can give i pay $1.50-$2 a gallon from a farm a little further away, its fresh unpasturized and well recived (and i always recycle the bottle to save us both some money), but i highly doubt shes making much profit from it...

you cant sell to the public for human consumption without being a registered lisenced dairy...youll get more money for "human grade" (which means paying the fees dealing with state inspections ect...) but in the end by the time youve paid the fees you need a comercial sized dairy to make any real head way.

kids, well theres a pet market out there for the mini breeds...otherwise youd have to look at your local market...from what ive seen your either in a good area for kid sales, or not...
meat x dairy breeds do better in my area and alot who raise goats while they cant sell the meat or milk without lisencing instead sell the animal "live and delivered to the processor"  the new "owner" (who is actually buying the meat) picks it up direct from the processor and pays any additional prosessing fees on pick up...
for milk they sell "shares" of the goat instead of the milk and get around the laws that way...its often labled "not for humans" in any adds but upon talking they always tell you "what you do with the milk you buy after it leaves our farm is out of our hands..."

soap and lotion seems to be the favorite "way to make money off goats" around here...

but it definatly depends on how many you get, how much milk your getting in and how much you spend on the goats, their food, care, health and shelter as to how much "profit" can be made.

doing your own vacinations and dewormings will help...
buying used fencing will help cut the cost there...
picking up free wood from construction sites...ect.

food, shelter, care and initial cost of the animals all factors into if a profit can be made...
someone who pays $100 for a seasond milking togg who puts out a gallon a day, does all their own vacs and built their shelter and fencing from free/cheap materials picked up used is going to make more profit than someone paying $300 for that same tog, have a vet do vacs and buys shelter and fencing brand new...


----------



## Ninny (Jan 4, 2010)

One thing to try to is selling them as weed eaters. I have  a couple people that would love to borrow goats to clear out pasture land.  So you could get portable fencing and rent them out for a day or two for clearing.  Or sell them as driving or pack goats for 4hers.  Just some ideas.


----------



## trix42 (Jan 6, 2010)

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your answers. I've been busy over the holidays and just got back to work yesterday and finally had a minute to check byh.com again.

I have read over each post carefully and I think you all have excellent info and advice.

I think my new plan is to purchase a few purebred dairy goats, and have a separate herd of boer goats for meat. Goat kids sell for good prices here (assuming 180 is a good price for live weanling) and there is a huge ethnic market only an hour away. We may try our hand at that as I do know there is a need for goat meat in my immediate area.

I hope everyone had a GREAT holiday season!!!!  

I look forward into getting goats, whether or not they make money. It would be great if I just broke even on them! 

Any animal venture is a risk. To me, I just want to do my best to raise healthy, free animals that have led a good life before they go to slaughter. Hubby may even learn how to butcher since we are already into chickens and want to process our own. I would love to butcher our own because it eliminates the poor animals getting transported and in a strange scary place. At home, it can be quick and relatively trauma free. However, I need to learn more about laws on processing meat at home.   I think small farms are going to make a comeback and people care about where their food comes from nowadays and how it is treated. Bit by bit I think the demand will increase.

And ooooh yes I want to make some goats milk soap!! And cheese for family (don't want to fiddle with regulations concerning milk). I've made soap before and loved it, I find it a soooothing process.


----------

