# Knuckled under kid?



## Hykue (May 3, 2011)

I can't seem to find a thread about this, although I know I read about it on here somewhere.  I have two new kids (Yay, yay!) and one of them seems to have a hard time keeping his front legs (one more than the other) straight when he's walking.  He puts it down with the bottom joint turned so that the hoof is pointing a little bit backward.  I hope that's clear.  My husband's way of putting it is that he's walking on the fronts of his hooves.  He can get them straight, especially when he's weighting them, but he seems to find it hard to do it consistently.

I understand BoSe can help with that (I can probably get some tomorrow in town), but I was wondering about splinting it.  Any advice for a new kid-owner?


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## Livinwright Farm (May 3, 2011)

help him excersize the affected leg/legs by gently and slowly helping him to straighten the leg.

I believe BoSe is something you can only get from a vet.

ETA: Perhaps check through the Diseases section... most threads like this can be found there.


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## elevan (May 3, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> help him excersize the affected leg/legs by gently and slowly helping him to straighten the leg.
> 
> I believe BoSe is something you can only get from a vet.


Correct BoSe is a prescription.

Physical therapy (exercising the leg) and a shot of BoSe should help.

I wouldn't splint it yet, only if the PT and BoSe doesn't help...


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## 20kidsonhill (May 3, 2011)

If he can get them in the proper postion, but the tendons just seem too weak to keep them there and they pop out of place, causing him to walk on the tops/front of his hoof, you can wrap a little support around that joint to help keep it from bending as easily. Not too tight, but tight enough to keep it from sliding off. We pack a little extra guaze or paper toweling right at the joint that is popping out and then wrap a little more gauze or paper toweling around the entire joint and duct tape it on, or athletic tape, or what ever you have, check his hoof in an hour to make sure it still feels warm for circulation, take off in a couple days and check for improvements and rebandage if still weak. 

Bo-Se dose help, but time will also help.


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## Ariel301 (May 3, 2011)

That's a classic sign of selenium deficiency in a newborn kid. Treat him with selenium and vitamin E--BoSe is an injectable available from a livestock vet, or there is an oral gel that you can get at feed stores. That plus a little time will generally fix him, I get a kid or two like that every year even though I treat the does before they kid.


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## Hykue (May 3, 2011)

Thanks for so many quick replies (you all really impressed my husband with the response!)  After watching him for a while longer, and comparing him to his sister, we decided to try splints.  We tied sticks to the fronts of his legs just above and below the ankle, so he can still kneel effectively.  That helped him get a lot more stable on his feet, so we left them on and I watched him for a couple of hours (yeah, I'm so . . . um, dedicated?  that I'll watch newborn kids for hours . . . hard luck, huh?)  and he looked to be doing fine with the splints on.  I'll check him again first thing tomorrow morning and then go to town to get a selenium/VitE supplement.  I didn't have one around because when I asked the vet about selenium levels in our area, they said they're highly variable and they don't recommend supplementing selenium without testing . . . and I never found time to get our hay tested.  So my goaties have been making do with the selenium in their ration and mineral . . . which apparently is not enough.  Anyway, good to know, I'll give some to my still-pregnant other doe too.


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## babsbag (May 4, 2011)

Hykue said:
			
		

> I didn't have one around because when I asked the vet about selenium levels in our area, they said they're highly variable and they don't recommend supplementing selenium without testing . . . and I never found time to get our hay tested.  So my goaties have been making do with the selenium in their ration and mineral . . . which apparently is not enough.  Anyway, good to know, I'll give some to my still-pregnant other doe too.


I read this so often on BYH and yet where I live in No CA Bo-Se is just "something we do" and don't even give it a thought. How much selenium would a goat have to get to be a dangerous overdose, and what would the symptoms be of too much selenium?

When I had my doe at the vet for hypocalcemia after kidding the vet gave her Bo-Se, just in case, even though I had done it shortly after breeding her. The doe was having some problems standing, that was why the injection. But I have never heard anyone say their goats have OD on selenium. Anyone know what the symptoms and/or dangers would be?


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## Roll farms (May 4, 2011)

> Livestock that feed on plants with high levels of selenium develop alkali disease so-called because plants more easily take up selenium when grown in alkali soils. Selenium toxicity is characterized by lameness, hoof malformation, hair loss, emaciation and liver damage. The mechanism behind selenium toxicity is not well understood.


from:
http://www.goatbiology.com/selenium.html


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## 20kidsonhill (May 4, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> > Livestock that feed on plants with high levels of selenium develop alkali disease so-called because plants more easily take up selenium when grown in alkali soils. Selenium toxicity is characterized by lameness, hoof malformation, hair loss, emaciation and liver damage. The mechanism behind selenium toxicity is not well understood.
> 
> 
> from:
> http://www.goatbiology.com/selenium.html


I am going to bet most of us would look at a lame goat, with a crooked hoof and hair loss, on the thin side and think copper deficiency. I would bet once she died the vet isn't drawing blood and checking for too much selenium.


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## cmjust0 (May 4, 2011)

I think ya did good on the splints..  No reason *not* to do splints, really..  Back before I knew what selenium was, I had a couple born knuckled under like that, and *all* I did was splint'em..  Couple days, they were fine.

Of course, these days I'd splint and Bo-Se, but still..  

Splinting =  from me.


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## Hykue (May 10, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies, again.

He's all better now, after a few days of splinting and the recommended dosage of a selenium-vitamin E supplement.  His sister got the "prevention" dose, too.  He's been practicing his jumping around, and while he's not quite as good of a tap-dancer as his sister, he's doing a pretty good job, and he is really good at pawing at things.  Cute!  

Also, it was good to get more practice at giving goatie shots.  Next, CD/T.  Or maybe BoSe for when my next doe kids . . . whichever comes first.


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