# Lunatic Buck Behavior Advice Needed



## bethh (Oct 21, 2020)

As many of you know, we are relative newbies to all things goats.  We bred our goats and had a poor kidding season.   Our bucks are in rut and losing their minds (that’s assuming they had any to begin with).   We want to breed soon for spring kids.   We thought we’d see how things went and put each buck in with specific doe/does.   The buck that was with 2 girls got lucky and one of the does seemed to be amenable to being bred.  The other buck wasn’t so lucky.  By the time we put everybody back into the respectable yards, the unsatisfied buck had rubbed, butted his head so much that it was raw and open.   How can I prevent him from hurting himself in the future or is this just to be expected?
@Senile_Texas_Aggie @B&B Happy goats @chickens really


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## B&B Happy goats (Oct 21, 2020)

That is typical buck behavior  here lol, ...the girls will let them breed when THEY are ready, the boys are just acting like male goats in rut...they won't  kill them selfs, perhaps drive you crazy yes...
I would just leave him in with the doe you want bred and let it happen when she is ready.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Oct 21, 2020)

Miss @bethh,

I feel quite honored that you would contact me regarding your goat behavior.  Regrettably, the only thing at which I am an expert is tearing up farm equipment.  I see where Miss @B&B Happy goats answered -- she is really smart and knows a lot about goats.  Another person who knows about goats is Miss @rachels.haven.  Miss Rachel, do you have anything to add?

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Mini Horses (Oct 21, 2020)

Pretty much the same advice.  Either leave them together, until -- or separate every one and watch for the tail & tongue wagging.   You know, boys are just not dependable in rut!!


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## rachels.haven (Oct 21, 2020)

Bucks really beat themselves up in rut. Look up the average lifespan of an intact male goat, then compare it to a female. I think it's like...6 years for a buck vs 10-12ish, or longer if you let the doe go dry and unbred. I've seen several stories where one year they may not pull out of rut and will do themselves in, either parasites, weather, or just randomly. Too much invested in rut time for their brains to work. They're not wethers. You can select for better rut behavior in the future if you want by selling off your more wild bucks, but even my chill, mellow dwarf guy has butted and scraped his head bloody on top. My lamanchas are more chill in general and mostly just pee themselves into urine scald.

And technically they don't need to be bred to be "satisfied" as bucks. They mainly just need to be separated sight, scent, and sound from the does and they are so much more happy and peaceful. They are perfectly happy to go after each other or not at all (yeah, they are animals on the former).


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## bethh (Oct 21, 2020)

B&B Happy goats said:


> That is typical buck behavior  here lol, ...the girls will let them breed when THEY are ready, the boys are just acting like male goats in rut...they won't  kill them selfs, perhaps drive you crazy yes...
> I would just leave him in with the doe you want bred and let it happen when she is ready.


Thanks for letting me that they are just dumb. If he keeps it up, I guess we will see if he has any gray matter in that hard head of his.


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## bethh (Oct 21, 2020)

rachels.haven said:


> Bucks really beat themselves up in rut. Look up the average lifespan of an intact male goat, then compare it to a female. I think it's like...6 years for a buck vs 10-12ish, or longer if you let the doe go dry and unbred. I've seen several stories where one year they may not pull out of rut and will do themselves in, either parasites, weather, or just randomly. Too much invested in rut time for their brains to work. They're not wethers. You can select for better rut behavior in the future if you want by selling off your more wild bucks, but even my chill, mellow dwarf guy has butted and scraped his head bloody on top. My lamanchas are more chill in general and mostly just pee themselves into urine scald.
> 
> And technically they don't need to be bred to be "satisfied" as bucks. They mainly just need to be separated sight, scent, and sound from the does and they are so much more happy and peaceful. They are perfectly happy to go after each other or not at all (yeah, they are animals on the former).


They can’t be separated by sight, scent and sound so I guess we will see how they fair.


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## Baymule (Oct 21, 2020)

Dumb bucks........ only one thing on their tiny little brain. Not much room in there for anything else.


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## chickens really (Oct 22, 2020)

I don't have experience with bucks in rut. Although I'm pretty sure it's no different than any other species during breeding time. The males don't think about much other than the task at hand. He sounds like he is demonstrating how big and strong he is for the ladies. Hopefully he doesn't get too beat up looking.


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## bethh (Oct 22, 2020)

chickens really said:


> I don't have experience with bucks in rut. Although I'm pretty sure it's no different than any other species during breeding time. The males don't think about much other than the task at hand. He sounds like he is demonstrating how big and strong he is for the ladies. Hopefully he doesn't get too beat up looking.


Currently the doe I have chosen for him isn’t impressed.


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## rachels.haven (Oct 22, 2020)

She's not in heat then. Easy peasy (for you).


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## Beekissed (Oct 22, 2020)

Guess this is why God gave goats horns?  To protect their heads?  You could try those ram shields that keep them from butting one another if they make them small enough for goats?


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## secuono (Oct 22, 2020)

Can the bucks not stay with the chosen does long term for breeding? Why remove them right away? I don't have goats, just sheep, but I can't see how they are all that different.


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## messybun (Oct 28, 2020)

You could also give him something else to beat up that won’t hurt him. My billy despised anything orange and would end up with the offensive object proudly creamed on his head. Maybe a pumpkin or something that he can destroy that won’t destroy him..


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## bethh (Oct 28, 2020)

secuono said:


> Can the bucks not stay with the chosen does long term for breeding? Why remove them right away? I don't have goats, just sheep, but I can't see how they are all that different.


I wasn’t going to leave the girls and boys separated long term because when the girls aren’t in heat the boys drive them crazy.   I revised my plans and will keep the appropriate girls and boy together until each girl has been bred.   I’m now waiting on one.


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## Ridgetop (Nov 12, 2020)

It is too bad that you can't keep the bucks and does separated.  However, since the bucks can smell a doe in season over a mile away, it won't do much good anyway.  Bucks fighting is normal during rut.  Their _hormones_ tell the bucks they need to fight when they are in rut.  If you can separate them, they will not hurt themselves.  In a few years they will age and realize that they will all get does.  In the wild, bucks fight for females because they have to.  Often the doe they are fighting for is not ready to breed and wanders off during their fight.  Injuries to bucks from fighting are normal.  As long as they are not able to do more that head butt, just put antibiotic salve on any raw heads.  Spray on is recommended to avoid getting buck stink on you since their scent glands are located on their heads and behind their front knees.

Pen breeding (unless the buck is wearing a breeding harness and crayons) can be a hit or miss business with no idea when the kids are coming.  More worry for you.

We pen bred our Boers with the buck wearing a harness.  However we individually bred our dairy does with the doe and the buck both on  leashes.  Inappropriately rough behavior was discouraged.  

If your bucks are young, they are probably just very anxious to get to the girls.  Put the doe and buck you choose both on leashes in a separate area out of their pens and watch her behavior toward him.  If she is ready to breed, she will flourish her tail, rub on him and back up to him presenting a breeding position.  The doe determines readiness for breeding, not the buck.  If the buck is over anxious and rough, he can hurt the doe and she will refuse him.  

BTW, some does will refuse certain bucks anyway.  If this happens use a different buck and see if she is just particular.


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## bethh (Nov 12, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> It is too bad that you can't keep the bucks and does separated.  However, since the bucks can smell a doe in season over a mile away, it won't do much good anyway.  Bucks fighting is normal during rut.  Their _hormones_ tell the bucks they need to fight when they are in rut.  If you can separate them, they will not hurt themselves.  In a few years they will age and realize that they will all get does.  In the wild, bucks fight for females because they have to.  Often the doe they are fighting for is not ready to breed and wanders off during their fight.  Injuries to bucks from fighting are normal.  As long as they are not able to do more that head butt, just put antibiotic salve on any raw heads.  Spray on is recommended to avoid getting buck stink on you since their scent glands are located on their heads and behind their front knees.
> 
> Pen breeding (unless the buck is wearing a breeding harness and crayons) can be a hit or miss business with no idea when the kids are coming.  More worry for you.
> 
> ...


Fingers crossed, they seem to have settled down.   I think we did pen breeding like you mentioned.  I had 2 does with 2 buck and the other buck and doe together for about 2 weeks.  So I know, I will have a window of due dates versus an actual date.   One of my does, Dixie, seems to instantly go into heat when first out with the buck.  She bred immediately this time as well as the last time.   The others not so much.   I’m hoping for a better kidding season in the spring.  Thanks @Ridgetop for the great information.


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## Ridgetop (Nov 17, 2020)

Good luck! Look forward to your posting on arrivals.


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