# Three Skinny Goat Kids - Updated



## journeysend (May 13, 2011)

Ok, I'm bottle feeding 3 goat kids: 1 Nubian buck born in 2/17, 1 Nigerian Dwarf Doe born 2/19 and 1 Ober buck born in March. I have pretty much stopped giving the doe a bottle (sometimes she steals a sip from the other two) and the bucks are getting two 16 oz bottles per day. I am using whole cow's milk. They are currently eating Noble Goat (grower?) feed, have free access to a mineral block and lots of fresh pasture/hay.

So here is my problem: they are super skinny... I have been supplementing them with Probios powder in their bottles. I have wormed with Ivermectin 1.87% horse paste at triple the dosage. I have 3 adult does and 1 other doe kid that is nursing, all of which are doing spendidly well and are very plump. I have had a slight problem with scours in the ND doeling, but she got out and was eating all kinds of stuff that may have caused it. She is doing fine now. The 2 buck kids and the rest of the goats have very nicely formed droppings. They all have healthy appetites and act normal. I am only having this problem in my bottle fed kids so I am wondering if perhaps I am doing something wrong? If anyone has any advice I would greatly appreciate it.

I guess what I am really trying to figure out is do they possibly have a disease or illness? Or is this a nutritional problem?


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## KellyHM (May 14, 2011)

What kind of hay are they getting?  I find that my young kids really need peanut or alfalfa hay to grow the way I want them to.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 14, 2011)

I would get a fecal done and see if they are carrying coccidia.  That will cause them to not gain for certain and extremly common for the young kids.  Its sooo worth it to get it done...and it will take a few days of cleaning and Albon to rid it.  

Good luck...I hope you fiqure it out!


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## Roll farms (May 14, 2011)

My full sized kids get 3 - 20 oz bottles a day until 2 mos old, then 2 - 20 oz bottles a day until 2.5 mos, then 1 - 20 oz up til 3 mos when I wean.

If 2 - 16 oz bottles a day is what they got all along, that's about half what I would have been feeding...I've found that amount really puts a nice layer of fat on them to help them not lose any condition during the transition from bottles to feed.

I feed them Noble Goat pretty much free choice, too, until they're fully weaned.

They shouldn't need probiotic powder daily.  I only give it after deworming, cocci treatment, diet changes, etc.

I would have a fecal ran.  At their age, and because this is 'cocci season'...They could very well all 3 have it and not show signs.

Cocci can kill.  When it doesn't kill, it can stunt their growth for life.
This thread is a recent one about cocci / treatment...

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10616&p=1


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 14, 2011)

I would have a fecal done right away.  What is the weight on your ND doe kid?  For comparison, I have two kids that are the same age (ours were born 2/15) and they're around 30 lbs.  Both were bottle raised.  Like KellyHM said, it's important to provide calcium rich feed, like alfalfa or peanut, free choice while the kids are growing.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 14, 2011)

x3 x4 x5 coccidiosis testing and treatment.


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## journeysend (May 14, 2011)

Ok, I'm feeding Coastal Bermuda which is what is available at my local feed store. I guess when I think about it, they started losing weight when I cut their bottles back... As for the coccidiosis, the vets around here close at 12 on Saturdays, but I will be sure to call them first thing Monday morning and see about getting a fecal done. I had been feeding them three bottles a day, and started cutting them back around the end of last month. 

I wouldn't have cut them back except I was following the advice of the 'breeder' I got the Nubian and ND doe from. She weans hers off the bottle completely by the time they are 8 weeks old.

Oh and n.smithurmond her weight is actually better than the boys, which I guess would make sense if it is because I cut them back. She is a ND mix, most likely with Boer so is slightly bigger than the average ND kid. I would think she probably weighs around 30 lbs or more.

So what would be the best hay to feed them? I think Tractor Supply sells alfalfa hay and I could get it from there. This is my first go-around with dairy goats and I never had any problems with my Boers.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 14, 2011)

I feed bermuda free choice and supplement with alfalfa.  Kids get alfalfa free choice.


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## helmstead (May 14, 2011)

journeysend said:
			
		

> I wouldn't have cut them back except I was following the advice of the 'breeder' I got the Nubian and ND doe from. She weans hers off the bottle completely by the time they are 8 weeks old.


There's your issue, along with cocci probably.  I never even consider weaning a ND before 8 weeks (usually start weaning around 10 wks, and they are on the bottle at least 12-16 weeks if they're smaller).  I always feed my large breeds and Mini Nubians at least 12 weeks, around 60+ oz a day.


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## Ariel301 (May 14, 2011)

I would get them on a cocci treatment/prevention plan ASAP. I see the same thing in my kids, they are nice and plump and growing fast until weaning time/the onset of warm weather, then they slow down, get thin through the ribs, but have huge round hay bellies. In my case, it's a combination of cocci, copper deficiency, and a strain of lice I managed to bring in that is resistant to just about any treatment. I would look into all three of those, especially the cocci. 

Weaning at 8 weeks is fine, but with these not doing so well, I think I would keep them on milk a little longer until you get whatever it is treated, because milk is so easy to digest and nutritious, it should help them out.


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## journeysend (May 16, 2011)

Ok, so I am not going to waste the money on testing because one of my older does that is approx. 8-12 months old started having diarrhea  late yesterday. She and one of my other does weren't acting normal and wouldn't eat when I fed them. 

Is it normal for older goats to have problems with coccidia? The other doe that is acting funny is around 3 or 4 years old. 

I have a friend that is kind enough to give me a bottle of Albon so I am going to start treatment immediately. Is Albon safe for pregnant goats? I am not sure if they were bred before I bought them.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 16, 2011)

My recomendations is to do the fecal.  I would not treat with Albon until you know what your fighting.  You may find that it is not coccidia and you've treated them for something that wont work.  

 Find out what your dealing with then treat appropriatley.  Believe me..Ive been where you are and understand your thinking..but have been suprised its was something else and had to retreat everybody with something differant.  And if I would of just bought the fecal down in the first place I would of been allset.  I dont guess anymore when it comes to worm loads.  Its just not worth it to me.

So its soooo worth finding out.  Its not a waste of money IMO.  My vet charges $10.00 to run a fecal...so its always worth my time before I dose them with anything for worm load.  

Good luck!!  And make sure they are drinking lots of water through this!!


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## aggieterpkatie (May 16, 2011)

I agree with Ariel, weaning at 8 weeks is fine if they're healthy.  I always wean at 8 weeks and don't have issues. Sounds like cocci might be the culprit.


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## journeysend (May 16, 2011)

The older doe has thin, watery tannish poop (kinda reminds me of how chickens poop sometimes). She is laying down and not moving around much and the ND mix doeling is standing around as well. So the vet I use is over 45 mins away, because the other one won't do anything unless you actually bring your goat to them (which I've done once before with one of my Boers that was scouring and believe me that was a mess). I will have to call the other and find out how much they charge to do a fecal. I wish the vets closer around here would see goats.


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## aggieterpkatie (May 16, 2011)

Any vet (even a small animal vet) should be able to do a fecal without seeing the animal.  If your vet insists on seeing the animal, I'd find another vet. :/


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## Chicks&Feathers (May 16, 2011)

We add some pulurized corn with the milk and it seemed to help are littel one


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## 20kidsonhill (May 16, 2011)

for the onse that are scouring, I wouldn't wait on treatment, they need to be treated. ASAP.  I would go ahead and start treating them with the Albon. If they don't respond in the first couple days, then do a fecal for other worms.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 16, 2011)

If you decide to give everyone Albon be careful cuz it can cause abortions in pregnant does.  Just something to be aware of if you decide not to get a fecal done.  

My vet is a 1/2 ride away from me to...so I know its a chore..but sometimes its well worth it.  And the vet may be able to give you something else for the pregnant does if needed.  Or give you some guidelines for Albons use for pregnant does.


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## journeysend (May 16, 2011)

Ok, so if I did decide to do treatment, would Corid work? That is the only thing available locally. And would it still be harmful to pregnant does?


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 16, 2011)

Corid can induce labor and is recommended not to use on pregnant does.  

Im sorry I dont have the answer for what can be use on pregnant does.  I personally never had coccidia present when the does have been pregnant so never had to address this.

To Add: Giving medications to pregnant or lactating does can involve some research.  I dont mean to complicate things for you.  But I would recomend looking up the drugs before giving it to them.  There are withdrawals times with meat and latacting does and alot can be given in later stages of prenancy and sometimes the diseases outwieghs the risk.  So its really up to you.  Im just trying to give you a heads up on things to be aware of.


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## journeysend (May 16, 2011)

Well I'm really not sure if she is pregnant, but she was running with a buck and the man I got her from said he thought she was too young... so maybe I will just use it and hope for the best. I don't want to lose her.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 16, 2011)

Good luck...Hope it works out for you!!


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## journeysend (May 19, 2011)

I wanted to give an update. The kids are doing better since they have had an increase in their milk amount for the past 5 days. I have not had anyone scour since Monday. I will still have a fecal done but I'm not able to do it until after tomorrow. Every store that I have been to is completely out of any kind of coccidiosis meds anyway and the Albon I was given was nowhere near enough since it was for a kitten.

Since then I have been doing research and it seems as though maybe copper deficiency was causing my older doe to scour... Not sure on that, since I am definitely not an expert, but it was listed as one of the symptoms. She was severly copper deficient when I got her (as well as horribly emaciated). Up until a couple of weeks ago I thought she was kinda like a light reddish-brown roan color with a white face. Poor thing is actually a dark red. She has been slowly getting her color back and her coat has improved dramatically. I am worried about her though because I'm almost 100% positive she is pregnant because she has an udder now. I have read that copper deficiency in does cause unborn kids to be born with problems. I bought some Goat Balancer from TSC to top dress their feed, especially hers. Is it too late at this point to do anything to help her unborn kids?

I feel a little silly because I felt like the 3 kids were so skinny but then I realized I was comparing them to the Boers I used to raise lol. Thanks for all the advice and for having patience with me  I feel like a newbie with these dairy goats and I really do worry way too much about them.


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## Roll farms (May 19, 2011)

I would consider giving the doe at least 1 BoSe shot pre-kidding (most of us are in low-selenium areas of the US...and in my herd if they're having copper issues, selenium deficiency issues tend to be there as well...  
I give my does 1cc per 40# 5 wks and 2 wks before they kid, as well as boost their CDT 5 wks pre-kidding, so the kids get passive immunity in the colostrum.
Ask other local goat producers (knowledgeable ones, not "I've had goats for 6 mos and know everything"-types).  
Some vets will tell you that you don't need it, even if you do.  
Few vets "know" goats or their nutritional needs....they treat them like mini cows or wool-less sheep....if you are lucky enough to find one who does know / care about treating goats...but him / her flowers and candy.


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