# nigerian milk question



## imtc (Jul 21, 2011)

For those of you who milk your does....what is the amount you get on average?  I've read that peak can be up to 2 quarts a day?  I have a nigerian doe who kidded in early May.  I have been milking her (which she HATES and fights me every time) I'm only milking once a day (in the morning after seperating her from baby overnights) and at one time was getting about a quart in that morning milking.  I went on vacation for a couple of weeks and brought her to a friend's home who also has dairy goats where she would be milked while I was gone.  After getting her back (about 3 weeks ago) her production has dropped to no more than 2 cups per milking and she's fighting me even more than before.  I am now considering selling her with her wethered buck together and starting over with another dairy doe that will actually LET me milk her without a fight.  I am considering other breeds also but wanted to know what others get on a regular basis from their Nigerians (how much per milking and for how long?).  How long is their "peak" time considered to last?  I just really like the size of Nigerians and not sure if I want to go to full size goats to get enough milk for my family.  Thanks for any input.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 22, 2011)

She's fighting you because she raised her kid.  Some does tolerate this, some don't.  One of our first milkers was a BEAST to milk the first year because I dam raised.   The next year, I pulled her kids and she bonded with me instead.  Then all I had to do was let her out and she'd run to the parlor and jump on the stanchion.  No issues with let down, never kicky, just as polite as a girl can be.  Unless your doe is friendly to begin with from her point of view you're stealing her baby's sustenance.

Our heaviest producer gave 4 lbs per day at peak last lactation while our lightest (a first freshener) gave only 1.5 lbs per day at peak.  Of course capacity can change dramatically in future freshenings.

My suggestion would be to give her another freshening to prove what she's made of- particularly if she was giving you 2 lbs at 12 hours in milk.  But you're going to have to pull the kids.  If that's not possible then you might consider trying again with a friendlier (bottle raised) doe.


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## imtc (Jul 22, 2011)

Smithurmond,
How soon do you seperate kids?  I'd hate to give up on her if she's just upset that I'm taking from her baby and being a first time mom.  She has always been a spoiled "pet" and very friendly.  I got her when she was about 8-9 weeks old and still bottle fed her on occassion to help her bond with me.  She has always been very social and friendly.  her buckling is now about 12 weeks old so I know is ready to sell...I just need to get around to listing him.  I'm still attempting to milk her in the mornings (sometimes giving her a day break) but am just frustrated at her giving me so much of a fight every time since milking is what I got her for.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jul 22, 2011)

Most of my girls should give around two qts a day. I still don't know for sure yet if that it exactly how much I'll get because the only one I have in milk right now I mismanaged it and she is down to 2 C a day as well. I am going to try milking her numerous times throughout the day for a couple days to see if I can get it back up. I know for 100% sure she can give me 1.5 qts.

Have you tried tying down her legs? There is a thread somewhere that I wrote out what I do for kickers, and it's VERY effective.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 22, 2011)

imtc said:
			
		

> Smithurmond,
> How soon do you seperate kids?  I'd hate to give up on her if she's just upset that I'm taking from her baby and being a first time mom.  She has always been a spoiled "pet" and very friendly.  I got her when she was about 8-9 weeks old and still bottle fed her on occassion to help her bond with me.  She has always been very social and friendly.  her buckling is now about 12 weeks old so I know is ready to sell...I just need to get around to listing him.  I'm still attempting to milk her in the mornings (sometimes giving her a day break) but am just frustrated at her giving me so much of a fight every time since milking is what I got her for.


We bottle raise kids, so we pull them at 24-48 hours.  Routine is extremely important- I would separate her and her buckling right away for 2 reasons: 1) if he's still nursing she's never going to look to you for "relief" and 2) at 12 weeks he is old enough to breed her.  I wouldn't give up on her.  Hobbling can work wonders.  You might separate them and get her on a consistent, predictable routine, feed her grain ONLY on the milk stand until she looses the attitude, and hobble her if necessary.  I have 2 does in milk now that I recently purchased- the previous owner let them dam raise then I picked them up after the kids were weaned.  They're both great on the milk stand and were never milked while the kids were nursing.  One of them is a first freshener and she took a little bit of training but now she can hardly wait for me to get the door completely open and she runs and jumps on the stand.  Stick with it and you might be surprised.


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## imtc (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm glad you are saying to stick with it.  I am getting more positive now and have decided to keep her and continue milking and hopefully her next breeding will go differently as I will seperate much sooner.  Do you just bottle feed the babies with formula or milk the doe and use her milk in bottle?  Also I'm wondering if I seperate babies at a day or two old and start bottle feeding, will they look to me as their mother and not attempt to nurse from their mom?  I just have limited space and no seperate area to keep them apart for long.  Just wondering for the future.
I have been tying her leg down and that seems to help.  She still tries to kick me but can't.  I also bought 2 types of hobbles.  One is just a figure "8" loop thing that slips right off since there is no way to adjust how tight it fits.  Then the 2nd one is velcro and when I've used that one she still wiggles her legs enough to rub skin off and bleed and also kicks both legs up in the air over her head, so I've found the best solution is a thick rope noose around her ankle then tied to the stanchion.  I finally listed her buck to sell today so hopefully I'll get replies soon.  He has been castrated so there's no danger in him breeding her.
Thank you for all your advise.  I'm going to keep trying with her and hope for the best.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 23, 2011)

Bottle raising is usually an either or type situation, but some folks are successful with separating overnight, feeding the kids one bottle each morning, then putting them back with mom.  You'd of course milk her out before the kids get returned.  Some of the less cooperative does may not let down for you though, doing it that way.  

Some folks also dam raise but milk twice a day regardless of how much milk they get each time.  That gets the doe in the routine and prevents production from dropping off as the kids get older and she lets them nurse less often.  If you want to dam raise ou're not going to be able to separate the kids for a few days or you run the risk of the dam rejecting them, the kids refusing to nurse, etc.  (There are exceptions to this rule- I have a retained doeling who was bottle raised from 3 days old and when I put her in with her dam at 8 weeks they were glad to be reunited and she went right back to nursing.  Her dam went right back to taking care of her long lost baby.  She's now 5 months old and still nursing!  Talk about a healthy Junior.  I'll have to separate her so her dam can have a dry period before she kids again.)

I don't have experience with either of those methods.  We pull the kids and bottle raise them separately.  We feed them goat's milk.  

I would think things will get easier for you once her buckling is gone.  It seems to me that as long as she's mothering him you're not really part of the equation in her mind.  I wouldn't have thought it to be the case, but my two does that dam raised this freshening at the previous owners have great attitudes about milking now.  So I know it's possible.  We had some other issues with teat size and probably lost a good bit of production because of it, but their attitudes are good.


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## treeclimber233 (Aug 1, 2011)

When your doe kicks/ fights what is your response?  Do you remove your hand until she settles down?  If you do she is training you to stop when she fights.  Tie her leg down and keep your hand on her udder until she stops acting the fool.  Also maybe try milking from the back. I have one doe that kicked/fought every time I tried to milk her.  I have a hand pump that I milk with.  I tied her leg down and still she acted crazy.  I was attaching the cup in front of her leg and she did not like that.  I finally tried milking from the back and she was a perfect lady on the stand.  I don't know what the difference was to her but whatever works.......


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 1, 2011)

Training goats to the stanchion is like training anything else.  Positive reinforcement and a firm but fair hand will win out eventually.  Be patient and outlast them no matter how stubborn they are!   I have one who every once in a while decides she's done in the middle of milking and throws herself onto her belly.  She weighs around 75 lbs so it's not like I can hoist her up and milk at the same time.  I just wedge a small bucket under her belly in front of her udder so she can't body block me.  She knows she's lost and she gives up.  But if I get ticked and get in a fight with her about it instead of just outsmarting her I will lose every time!  Patience is key no matter how desperately you want to punch your goat right in the head.   And if you're gasping at that comment then you've never had a kicky milker.


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## imtc (Aug 1, 2011)

We are making progress with her now.  I was given a Lamancha doe in milk from a friend who is an angel on the stand so I am getting a good amount of milk and seeing what milking SHOULD be like...lol.  Since getting her I had to re-arrange my set up to isolate the milk stand, which apparently made Trixie (my problem nigerian) jealous.  I have been seperating her baby at night and milking her in the morning and she now will fight the Lamancha to get on the stand first.  I tie one leg down and she still is a little kicky but once I get started, as long as I don't let go, she'll let me milk her out.  I'm still getting about 2cups which from what ya'll have told me is pretty standard so I can't complain and with my Lamancha that boosts my morning quantity to a good quart + some more.  Whenever she does kick, I don't let go of her....I just hold my ground until she calms down and continue so she's learning to just let me do my thing and I'll be done sooner.    =0)


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