# Sheep not growing



## Jennifer Hinkle (Jun 18, 2018)

I have a question about my Hair sheep. We had a set of American Blackbelly Hair sheep twins born last January. It was the ewes first lambing. They are small and seem to not be getting any bigger.
This year we had another set of twins born this January and they are already bigger than the ones born last year. Also the ones born last year seem to not be breeding. Does anyone have any advice or know why it is this way. I can't figure it out.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Jun 18, 2018)

Too much inbreeding leads first to diminshed size and infertility. 
That would be my first guess.


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## Jennifer Hinkle (Jun 18, 2018)

Donna R. Raybon said:


> Too much inbreeding leads first to diminshed size and infertility.
> That would be my first guess.


They are not inbred. I do not inbreed my animals. I started with an unrelated Ram and Ewe.  INBREEDING Really? And besides that Her offspring this year are fine. And she was bred to the same Ram. Once again I do not Inbreed my animals.


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## Jennifer Hinkle (Jun 18, 2018)

Can somebody give me some real advice about my question. I am trying to raise my sheep to be profitable and enjoy doing so, I would appreciate some help with this. Any advice is welcome. Inbreeding is not a possibility. My two Ewes I started with are 3yrs old and I have had them since they were 6mo. old. The Ram is 1 1/2 years old and I have also had him since he was 5mo. old. They came from totally different people and totally different places. and at different times.


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## frustratedearthmother (Jun 18, 2018)

If you attack everyone who throws an idea out there you aren't going to get much help.

The advice about inbreeding was not off base and the poster didn't have any background.  She was trying to help.   I have raised pygmy goats for years and when I was actively breeding for the showring I DID practice inbreeding.  I got beautiful goats, but the end result after decades was  an overall decrease in size.

I'm not a sheep person, so I'll just toss out some general ideas that pertain to most livestock.

Perhaps a ewe's first lambs are not as hardy - likely because mom might not have had as much milk her first lambing.​
What about parasites?  They can sure slow the rate of growth.  Maybe you take care of that, but I'm just throwing it out there as an idea.  Coccidia will also stunt growth.  Feed?  Browse?  Are the new lambs getting a different diet?   Is there any possibility of dwarfism in blackbelly sheep? 

Hope you find the answer you are looking for.


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## Baymule (Jun 18, 2018)

I have a ewe whose first lambs didn't grow off like I wanted them to. I was going to keep the ewe lamb to add to the flock, but I sent her to slaughter along with the wethers. She has since then always twinned and they have been bigger than the first two. Why? Durned if I know. My advice is to slaughter the two undersized lambs and put them in the freezer. 

Breeding an undersized female animal of any type will often lead to birthing problems. You can lose the offspring and sometimes the female as well. You only have to do that once to leave a lasting impression. 

Are they the same sex? I know in horses and cattle, in a male/female twin birth, often the female is a freemartin. Freemartin does not often occur in sheep and goats, but it can happen. 

Freemartin; a hermaphrodite or imperfect sterile female calf that is the twin of a male calf whose hormones affected its development.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemartin


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## Baymule (Jun 18, 2018)

Stupid double post.


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## Latestarter (Jun 18, 2018)

Since her second set of lambs are growing out fine, I'd guess it was just a fluke due to her first go-round. As others have suggested, I wouldn't breed the undersized sheep, but cull them. Sorry I can't add or suggest anything as a potential cause...


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## Sheepshape (Jun 19, 2018)

Lambs born to young ewes sometimes are very small as others have said......I've got a couple right now. Some of these tiny lambs never get as big as you'd expec, some do. My avatar shows a tiny lamb who is now a very large ewe.

 Parasite infestation is a common cause for stunting. Feeding inadequate amounts during the period of rapid growth (or a relative fall-off in ewe mum's milk due to illness or underfeeding) can both cause undersized animals. Singletons are bigger than twins are bigger than triplets. etc

Sometimes lambs just inherit 'small' genes.....the parents may be well-sized, but some little guys may have been amongst their ancestors....being short doesn't stop them breeding.

I try to avoid breeding young animals (neighbour's ram doesn't always comply), don't in-breed, feed animals very well etc.....and still end up with a few tiny little souls. Some of these 'tiddlers' go on to grow late.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Jun 19, 2018)

Chill already!  At its best nothing wrong with linebreeding or inbreeding.   Study lineage of any domestic breed that is consistent in quality and there is both behind them.  You asked for this groups experience.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 28, 2018)

Did you raise both sets of lambs exactly the same?  Did the same ewe have both sets of lambs?  Were both sets of lambs the same size and weight at birth?  Did she milk well?  Did you feed differently?  Was pasture better one year than other?  Did you creep feed the second set of lambs?  Do you have a program of worming?  Do you know any of the history of your 3 unrelated sheep?  Did the other ewe have normal lambs when bred to the same ram?

Since it sounds like it was the same ewe that had the mini lambs the first year, and normal lambs the next year, I would watch her to see if she has a very small lamb(s) again.  This could just have been a fluke, or a problem with the ewe or ram.  Since you bred completely unrelated animals, you don't know what their genetic characteristics or flaws may have been.  I would continue breeding the 3 animals and keep track of their growth patterns to see if you can identify any other problems.  Weigh the lambs at birth and then periodically weigh them again.  Lambs gain about 1 lb. a day for the first few weeks then gain between 1/2 lb. and 1 lb. per day depending on the breed and nutrition. 

I'm sorry you were upset at the question of inbreeding, perhaps you are not familiar with livestock breeding practices.  Used properly, inbreeding and line breeding are good tools.  Here is an explanation to help you understand the reasons for this type of breeding.

The methods of inbreeding (breeding closely related animals) and line breeding (breeding more distantly related animals) are time tested ways to consolidate the best points of an animal or breed.  It is used very successfully to establish new breeds like the Polypay, Dorper, etc.  It is  important to use only the best animals when inbreeding since inbreeding will not only consolidate an animal's best points, but also its flaws.  That is why knowledgeable breeders do not overdo it.  Line breeding with occasional outbreedings to bring in a desired trait is usually the safest way to breed good solid specimens without problems.  As in any breeding program, culling harshly is the key to producing good quality stock. 

Consistently using only outbreeding (breeding unrelated animals) is a bad way to go.  The offspring are usually inconsistent in quality and type.  With a constant outbreeding program you are  combining different sets of genetic characteristics which may or may not blend well.  This means that you will never be able to produce good animals in a predictable manner.  The whole reason for breeding animals is to obtain consistent type within your flock or herd.  Unless you practice a modified type of line breeding you will never achieve your goal.

Backgrowth rates - yearling ewes often have smaller lambs in their first lambing, since they are smaller and there is less room to grow.  Most first time young ewes single.  However the lambs usually grow fast and by the time they are 6 months should have caught up with lambs from 2nd and 3rd time lambing ewes.  The same goes for twins and triplets, they usually catch up fast once they are out of confinement inside the ewe. 

One year we rebuilt our feeder to give all the sheep enough space to eat at once.  BUT it didn't allow enough space for the growing lambs to feed with their mothers at the same time.  This meant that the lambs ate last - after the best part of the alfalfa was eaten.  There was little forage that year since we were in a serious drought.  All the lambs were singles.  We did not creep feed.  When we weighed to send our lambs to market, our lambs were only 70-75 lbs. at 6 months.

The following year the ewes, except 1, singled again.  But that year we built a creep for our lambs.  They had access to the same alfalfa as their moms, but in their own creep pen where they were not shoved away by adults.  We also fed grain.  Still limited forage due to drought.  Big difference in size, sent to market at 5-6 months over 100 lbs. 

The 3rd year all the ewes had twins.  We continued the same program of creep feeding, but that year we had lots of rain which resulted in lots of green forage.  After it dried, we still had lots of dry grass forage.  We still fed our lambs in the creep.  Lambs went to market at 4 months over 100 lbs.

We have Dorset sheep which are usually easy keepers and will go to market off green pasture easily.  We have no green pasture here in So Cal.  We have dry brushy forage on a 4 acre pasture.  We hand carry alfalfa 2x day except in the best years when we have heavy rains, then we give one alfalfa feed daily while the pasture lasts.  We only worm once or twice during a super rainy season, except for new flock members.  We vaccinate for CDT every year.  We do not change our practices so you can see the difference that feeding and nutrition, and amount of feed makes in young lambs.


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## Jennifer Hinkle (Jul 3, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I have a ewe whose first lambs didn't grow off like I wanted them to. I was going to keep the ewe lamb to add to the flock, but I sent her to slaughter along with the wethers. She has since then always twinned and they have been bigger than the first two. Why? Durned if I know. My advice is to slaughter the two undersized lambs and put them in the freezer.
> 
> Breeding an undersized female animal of any type will often lead to birthing problems. You can lose the offspring and sometimes the female as well. You only have to do that once to leave a lasting impression.
> 
> ...


 We are probably going to cull the two smallest ones. I do believe they would not be good to keep. It is just probably the fact it was her first Lambing. But either way we will not be keeping them. Thank you for everyone's advice.


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## Jennifer Hinkle (Jul 3, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> Did you raise both sets of lambs exactly the same?  Did the same ewe have both sets of lambs?  Were both sets of lambs the same size and weight at birth?  Did she milk well?  Did you feed differently?  Was pasture better one year than other?  Did you creep feed the second set of lambs?  Do you have a program of worming?  Do you know any of the history of your 3 unrelated sheep?  Did the other ewe have normal lambs when bred to the same ram?
> 
> Since it sounds like it was the same ewe that had the mini lambs the first year, and normal lambs the next year, I would watch her to see if she has a very small lamb(s) again.  This could just have been a fluke, or a problem with the ewe or ram.  Since you bred completely unrelated animals, you don't know what their genetic characteristics or flaws may have been.  I would continue breeding the 3 animals and keep track of their growth patterns to see if you can identify any other problems.  Weigh the lambs at birth and then periodically weigh them again.  Lambs gain about 1 lb. a day for the first few weeks then gain between 1/2 lb. and 1 lb. per day depending on the breed and nutrition.
> 
> ...



Thank you for this information. I guess I always thought of it different. We will probably not keep the two smallest ones on account of possible future problems.


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## Ridgetop (Jul 3, 2018)

Good luck.  I'm glad this helped.


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