# hoof deformity? Or worry wart new Goat owner



## Greendecember (Feb 14, 2011)

Update: Goliath went to the vet today. Vet gave him a vitamin shot. It was his "special baby goat mix" lol had vit B, b complex, e, selenium, and a list of stuff in it. I wrote it all down but don't have it handy. 
On the splinting. He said don't splint. Just watch and wait. He said splinting him would open up a WHOLE new set of problems. 

I brought the other 3 kidds with me just in case someone else needed something. We weighed everyone and he said they all looked fine. 

We didn't have a whole lot of time to talk because about that time 2 emergency cases came in. He did say that they need their shots at 3 months and suggested having the boys wethered in March. He likes to tease me about how I should just bite the nuts off because he knows it grosses me out but apparently that is how some goat ranchers with large herds do it. NOT ME!!!! They see a LOT of problems with banding around here so he is highly against banding.

All said and done the visit and shot cost me $10.  Whew! I was guessing it would be more like $40-$100!
Thanks again for all your advice! 



****
Some back story

We bought some goats back in September. Then we discovered 4 out of 5 of the does were prego.   I had suspected for a while but conformation came when I saw a baby hoof poke Mama in the side. We were so excited! 

Then the blizzard came.  It hardly snows in Oklahoma and we had over a foot come down twice in one week. Yes I know most places get a lot more but when there is a 3 inch sheet of ice under the snow and the snow plows are overwhelmed we stayed home hehe

That was the week 3 does decided to kid. The first doe had her kids some time before 9am. We usually check on them at sun up but with the storm we were moving a lot slower. 

I had been picking up kidding supplies here and there as we could afford them and I figured out what we needed but was really not ready for Kids yet. I had done a TON of reading up on goats. Mainly feeding, housing, and care. I had only skimmed the kid stuff because I didn't have a buck and didn't plan to get one just yet. 

Mom seemed to be nursing him fine and I didn't see any other babies so we went to town to get some more stuff just in case someone else decided to have her babies and had a problem. When we got home around 2pm I heard a screaming from the far side of the barn. I found a crying, lethargic, and half frozen baby buck. Apparently she had 2. We rushed him into the vet but he died when we got there. I brought the other buck (now named Goliath) with us just in case and the vet checked him over and he was just fine. The vet suspected Mom figured she could only keep one warm and fed or there was a genetic abnormality we didn't notice and Mom did.
That was Feb 3rd. 

Fast forward to today. Feb 14. We now have 3 live buck kids and 1 live doe kid.  

I went out to feed the doeling because her Mom had her and a buckling. The buckling was HUGE and mom orphaned the little girl. 

That was when I noticed Goliath. He was the buck that survived from he first doe. His hind feet look deformed to me. Where the other kids have that tip toe look to their walk he looks flat footed on the hind legs. I looked all over the net for pics to describe it. Bellow you can see how the back pads that are usually up a little on their leg is flat with the hoof bottoms? That is how his legs are. I didn't notice it before. I have been so involved with the doeling and feeding her I kinda left the bucklings to their Mom's except to bring them in on the nights it was bellow freezing and kept them in a kennel in the house. 
Goliath's favorite place to nap is behind and under the old horse hay feeder and hard to get to him. Add that to him mom is a cranky pants so we would make sure he was breathing, notice him feed from time to time but overall not bother him.

I picked him up and compared his hind feet to the other kids. Then to the adults. They don't look right to me. But like I said I am new to this whole goat rodeo. 
I will try to take some pics and upload them this evening. 

Any idea what it is? Am I just worried for nothing? Should I take him to the vet? Should I wait and see? Is it something he could live with? Would he be in a lot of pain or should I have him put down?

Worried 

Edited to include pics
Not very good shots/ Hard to get a good pic without a helper  Hope this helps


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## blufftonboers (Feb 14, 2011)

I can not get an image on the link you suplied.  Is he stiff legged or are his pasturns week?  We have had kids whos hocks go in on the back legs so the lentire leg looks like a strait line they usually correct themselfs over time if that is what it is.  A picture would be great.  depending on what it is you may be able to put splints on him till his legs get stronger or some sort of medicine may help to strengthen him and his legs.  you can email me a picture to my email if you cant get it posted here.  

One kidding supply item I can't live with out is a baby moniter you can hear when babies are in trouble and when moms are going into labor.

Good luck to you
Anna


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## Greendecember (Feb 14, 2011)

blufftonboers said:
			
		

> I can not get an image on the link you suplied.  Is he stiff legged or are his pasturns week?  We have had kids whos hocks go in on the back legs so the lentire leg looks like a strait line they usually correct themselfs over time if that is what it is.  A picture would be great.  depending on what it is you may be able to put splints on him till his legs get stronger or some sort of medicine may help to strengthen him and his legs.  you can email me a picture to my email if you cant get it posted here.
> 
> One kidding supply item I can't live with out is a baby moniter you can hear when babies are in trouble and when moms are going into labor.
> 
> ...


Humm it links ok for me. I think I need more posts before I can post pics on here  

Anyhow... from the dew claw to the tip of the hoof are all flat on the ground. The pastern area is all on the ground. Assuming there is a pastern on the hind legs as with the front. I'm still learning my goat anatomy and that is the best I can think to describe it.

Where did you get your baby moniter? What brand? How much was it? I plan to have these bucklins wethered at about 2-3 months and not get a buck until I am better prepaired hehe. But I will put the baby moniter on my list of things to get as soon as I get a buck!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 14, 2011)

We have splinted legs with great success, Also, weak legged kids will greatly benifit from a Bo-Se shot. 1/4 cc for a 5 to 6 lb kid and 1/2 cc for a 10 lb kid. 

'PIctures will help

Also, goats, especially first timers will only take care of one baby and leave the other one, when in a barn/ herd situation, many people put the does into kidding pens just before they expect the babies to prevent this. Keeps mom from walking away from one baby. inexperienced does are bad for this. 

Next time you see a cold kid get it in the house and give it some corn syrup mixed with a little warm regular coffee. put the kid near a warm stove or under a heat lamp. warmth and fast calories from corn syrup can save a kid. Never feed a kid that is down milk.


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## Greendecember (Feb 14, 2011)

Testing to see if I can post pics. If it works this is Queenie and Goliath on his birthday


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## Greendecember (Feb 14, 2011)

blufftonboers said:
			
		

> I can not get an image on the link you suplied.  Is he stiff legged or are his pasturns week?  We have had kids whos hocks go in on the back legs so the lentire leg looks like a strait line they usually correct themselfs over time if that is what it is.  A picture would be great.  depending on what it is you may be able to put splints on him till his legs get stronger or some sort of medicine may help to strengthen him and his legs.  you can email me a picture to my email if you cant get it posted here.
> 
> One kidding supply item I can't live with out is a baby moniter you can hear when babies are in trouble and when moms are going into labor.
> 
> ...


Ok looks like I can post pics! Headed out to the barn now to see if I can get a decent pic to show what it is


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## Greendecember (Feb 14, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> We have splinted legs with great success, Also, weak legged kids will greatly benifit from a Bo-Se shot. 1/4 cc for a 5 to 6 lb kid and 1/2 cc for a 10 lb kid.
> 
> 'PIctures will help
> 
> ...


The second we found him we brought him in the house and I tried to warm him up. I called the vet closest to us and he said get him warmed up and see if he was take some milk. I knew he was too weak to nurse at all and his eyes were rolling so I loaded him up and took him to the vet in town that does large animals and he died before they could get the IV bags warmed up. Vet tried a pasted in it's mouth and we put him on heating pads but it was too late. 

Now that the snow is cleared we are working on the barn and making plans for a kidding stall. It isn't a very big barn to start with. Just a 3 horse stall barn with a small yard fenced to it. 

We really got more than we figured when we bought out "test" herd to see if goats and us would work. We didn't know anyone was prego hehe
 I LOVE them to death now and want MORE! SO we are developing the property *before* I buy a buck for breeding stock and better does. 

Headed out to take pics now


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 14, 2011)

You need 10 post to post a pic.  So I would do your best to get a pic of his leg...that would help alot.  That goat hoof ashtray did not help me at all.  And was kinda unpleasant to see.  IMO.

But a pic of his actual leg would be helpful!  Sounds like you had a busy busy winter.  Warmer days are ahead!


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## Greendecember (Feb 14, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> You need 10 post to post a pic.  So I would do your best to get a pic of his leg...that would help alot.  That goat hoof ashtray did not help me at all.  And was kinda unpleasant to see.  IMO.
> 
> But a pic of his actual leg would be helpful!  Sounds like you had a busy busy winter.  Warmer days are ahead!


Yes, I agree the pic of the ashtray was not pleasant but it was all I could find to demonstrate the flatness 
I have pics now. Working to get them loaded


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 14, 2011)

I am trying to decide if it looks truely deformed or just weak.

When holding his foot are you able to straighten it out? 

If so I would splint it.

Popcycle sticks from the hoof down to the ground and up to the knee would work well, paper toweling wrapped around that and then duck tape on that, Just tight enough but not toooo tight. 

Just so he can still bend his knee. I would leave on for 2 or 3 days, take off, test and then put back on if still weak. 

Check his hoof every now and then to make sure it feels the same temp. as the rest.

If it is stiff and doesn't straighten he is deformed and that will have to be your choice what you end up doing. 

Good luck


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## Roll farms (Feb 14, 2011)

It looks like his stance was mostly normal, aside from newborn shakiness, in the 1st pic...?

Was the dam given BoSe before she kidded?

If not, I would hit him w/ 1/2 cc.  

Splint it.  I like to use the vet wrap around a tongue depressor wrapped in paper towel.
Remove the splint every 24 hrs (otherwise you risk muscle / tendon atrophy, which won't be an improvement) and do physical therapy.
Flex the legs forward and back, not to extremes, but through the full range of motion he should normally use when walking.
Set him down and watch him walk for a bit.
If he still falls back on his pasterns, re-splint for 24 hrs and then check again.
Usually after 1 or two splint applications, the problem is corrected.

Good luck!


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## Greendecember (Feb 14, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> I am trying to decide if it looks truely deformed or just weak.
> 
> When holding his foot are you able to straighten it out?
> 
> ...


I can move it and such but his hooves are really spread apart not close together like the other kids.
Hubby said take him to the vet. I might try a splint first though.


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## Greendecember (Feb 14, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> It looks like his stance was mostly normal, aside from newborn shakiness, in the 1st pic...?
> 
> Was the dam given BoSe before she kidded?
> 
> ...


No. No one has had any shots since they left the farm they were at and came here. I didn't have a clue when they were bred and neither did the lady I got them from so I was afraid to vaccinate the wrong thing at the wrong time. 

I am going to try the splinting. Hubby said take him to the vet but I think I can handle a splint. At least give it a try. 

There are so many opinions on BoSe and all the other shots about what to give and when to give them the more I read the more confused I am  

Having 6 unexpected babies was a bit overwhelming.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 15, 2011)

There are some things we each do differently on here, but one of the things we pretty much all agree on is, Bo-Se. given 30 days before kidding,it is 1 cc per 40lbs body weight, If you aren't sure of due date, I would just go ahead and give it.  

New borns, many of us give 1/4 for smaller kids and 1/2 to larger kids after kidding, I would highly recommend.


Also, CD&T vaccinations.   You don't have to give them 30 days before kidding, but it helps give the kids some protection at first. 2cc sub-Q for any size goat.  
I would just give each of your kids 2 cc sub-Q and then again a booster shot 21 days later.  

If you don't know if any of your does have ever been done, you will need to give them the first and 2nd shots. 



Another thing we pretty much all agree on is Coccisdiosis treatment to newborns starting at 21 days.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 15, 2011)

I agree with Roll..the first pic his stance looks okay.  But IMO...if you have the ability to bring him to the vet...I definately would.  The vet would be able to "hands on" show you how to set and wrap it.  And once you get familar with how the hoof is supose to sit...you will be able to do it yourself.  

Also the vet can review with you all the vaccines needed for them.  Important.  I would bring a pen and paper and write it all down.  

The kids will definatley need CD&T vaccines and coccidia treatments, feed or orally depeding on load.  

Mom will need some vaccines to...especially with the fact that she has just delivered and you have no idea of her medical history.   

Important.  These preventative measures can save you alot of heartache and troubles.  

But again, I would get him to the vets...get all the info you can...and you can save money by getting the vaccines/suppliments needed at the feed store, Jeffers (online) or Tractor Supply.  

The information from the vets can be priceless sometimes.  You will learn alot on that first visit..things you can do for a lifetime for your herd.  Ask lots of questions...and write things down! 

Good luck...I hope it works out great for you new goaties.  They are great animals, lots of fun...especially when they are healthy and happy!


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## dkosh (Feb 15, 2011)

I had a lamb last year with her fore foot doing the same thing. I did splint it but instead of popcicle sticks I used the card board from a toilet paper roll and then used vet wrap snuggly around it but not too tight. I took it off every other day and checked to see if it was getting stronger (and to do a skin check). It took a couple of weeks but she eventually got strong enough and now is perfectly fine. Good luck!


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## elevan (Feb 15, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> I agree with Roll..the first pic his stance looks okay.  But IMO...if you have the ability to bring him to the vet...I definately would.  The vet would be able to "hands on" show you how to set and wrap it.  And once you get familar with how the hoof is supose to sit...you will be able to do it yourself.
> 
> Also the vet can review with you all the vaccines needed for them.  Important.  I would bring a pen and paper and write it all down.
> 
> ...


I agree.  Especially if the abundance of different opinions has been confusing to you.  Your vet will be able to give you the recommendations specific to your area.  And proper dosages for your area.  They will be able to show you how to splint hands on and how to vaccinate hands on.

Good luck to you and your kid


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## aggieterpkatie (Feb 15, 2011)

The pics are kinda fuzzy, but it does look like he's got weak pasterns.  His hind foot almost looks like a llama or alpaca foot (with the toes spread out).


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## Greendecember (Feb 15, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> The pics are kinda fuzzy, but it does look like he's got weak pasterns.  His hind foot almost looks like a llama or alpaca foot (with the toes spread out).


Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking. I am waiting for the vet to open so we can make an appointment.


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## Greendecember (Feb 15, 2011)

Thank you all for your wonderful information and well wishes. 

I think once I get through this first batch of kids and reading all your wisdom I will be a real trooper LOL 

Just to make sure I am doing it right I have an apt with the vet in an hour. I may just package up all 4 kids and take them with me LOL


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## Ariel301 (Feb 15, 2011)

That first kidding season can be overwhelming, I remember that very well. We brought our first goat home on a 14 hour trailer ride ON her due date. She kidded four days later. 

I would definitely get some BoSe in that kid, it helps to straighten out crooked legs from selenium deficiency, and if he's not deficient, it won't hurt him to have a dose. You have to get it from a vet though, it's not over the counter. 

I usually have a couple of kids born with weak legs that don't walk right at first. Normally it will clear up on its own or with BoSe and splinting. I notice in my herd it mainly happens with a smaller second kid that was behind a big first kid inside the mom or a huge single kid--i.e. those who didn't have enough room to stretch and roll around comfortably inside mom.


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## Greendecember (Feb 15, 2011)

Ariel301 said:
			
		

> That first kidding season can be overwhelming, I remember that very well. We brought our first goat home on a 14 hour trailer ride ON her due date. She kidded four days later.
> 
> I would definitely get some BoSe in that kid, it helps to straighten out crooked legs from selenium deficiency, and if he's not deficient, it won't hurt him to have a dose. You have to get it from a vet though, it's not over the counter.
> 
> I usually have a couple of kids born with weak legs that don't walk right at first. Normally it will clear up on its own or with BoSe and splinting. I notice in my herd it mainly happens with a smaller second kid that was behind a big first kid inside the mom or a huge single kid--i.e. those who didn't have enough room to stretch and roll around comfortably inside mom.


I don't know if he was twin 1 or 2 but the one that died was about the same size he was. 

14 hours in a trailer on her due date! WOW! That would be a worrisome trip hehe

Vet gave him a vitimin shot and said don't splint. So we shall wait and see. 

Rala's twin is a HUGE boy. She is tiny by about 1/2 his size but she seems to be doing well so far and has the most energy of them all. But then, she has been a bottle baby from day one.


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## Greendecember (Feb 15, 2011)

Thanks for all the help  I put an update in the original post


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