# Rabbit with rapid onset neurological symptoms



## GypsyG (Apr 2, 2019)

I have a doe who a couple of hours ago started showing symptoms of some kind of neurological problems.  I heard a commotion coming from her cage and when I got there she was bucking/convulsing with her eyes clenched tight... I picked her up to examine her and she stopped convulsions, but retained a weird facial tick... She's drooling a bit.  It is not hot today and none of my other rabbits show any signs of heat stress... I have never seen anything like this in my herd before.  Any ideas?

I tried to make a video... I apologize for the poor quality.


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## GypsyG (Apr 2, 2019)

@Bunnylady @promiseacres @Baymule @Pastor Dave @DutchBunny03 
Any of you other rabbit people have any ideas?  What is it?  Can I fix it? Is it contagious?  Any help is appreciated.


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## Hens and Roos (Apr 2, 2019)

Wow, sorry to hear about your rabbit, wonder if she had a stroke?  We haven't experienced anything like this.  Hopefully others will be able to help.


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## B&B Happy goats (Apr 2, 2019)

I have to agree with Hens and Roos, look at her pupils, i would say she had a stroke also....sorry


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## GypsyG (Apr 2, 2019)

OK... I don't expect her to pull through...  I'm going to start trying to integrate babies.  I miscounted... This is going to put Hosta with 17... That sucks.


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## B&B Happy goats (Apr 2, 2019)

GypsyG said:


> OK... I don't expect her to pull through...  I'm going to start trying to integrate babies.  I miscounted... This is going to put Hosts with 17... That sucks.



Sure does, I'm  sorry Gypsy.....


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## Bunnylady (Apr 2, 2019)

How old are the babies?

Since this is a nursing doe, my first thought is hypocalcemia or some other mineral deficiency brought on by lactation. I had this happen to a Dwarf doe once; weaning her litter and giving her a mineral supplement got her back to normal within a week or so.


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## GypsyG (Apr 2, 2019)

I have just used an oral syringe and  admisiteted my grandma's favorite universal critter remedy of mashed banana, molasses and boiled oat water.  I figured it couldn't hurt to give it a shot.


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## GypsyG (Apr 2, 2019)

Bunnylady said:


> How old are the babies?
> 
> Since this is a nursing doe, my first thought is hypocalcemia or some other mineral deficiency brought on by lactation. I had this happen to a Dwarf doe once; weaning her litter and giving her a mineral supplement got her back to normal within a week or so.


The babies are fifteen days old.


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## Baymule (Apr 2, 2019)

I would give her the mineral supplement like Bunnylady said and keep an eye on her. If it is a stroke, she won't get any better. If it is a mineral deficiency, she should show improvement. She is a pretty girl and I hope she gets better.


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## Bunnylady (Apr 2, 2019)

I had a Calcium/Magnesium/Potassium/Phosphorus supplement that I had taken when I was nursing still wandering around, so I mashed/dissolved a tablet and syringe fed it to the Dwarf doe with some banana (rabbits usually like banana). Over the years, I had occasionally found a nursing doe that had apparently suddenly died in convulsions, but this was the first time I had a live animal with neurological signs that I could actually treat.


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## GypsyG (Apr 2, 2019)

What supplement did you give your doe, @Bunnylady ?  She has had a mineral wheel in her cage.  Can a rabbit be given Nutra-Cal?


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## GypsyG (Apr 2, 2019)

Bunnylady said:


> I had a Calcium/Magnesium/Potassium/Phosphorus supplement that I had taken when I was nursing still wandering around, so I mashed/dissolved a tablet and syringe fed it to the Dwarf doe with some banana (rabbits usually like banana). Over the years, I had occasionally found a nursing doe that had apparently suddenly died in convulsions, but this was the first time I had a live animal with neurological signs that I could actually treat.


Sorry, I somehow missed this message.  I found a slightly outdated bottle of calcium/magnesium/zinc and a separate bottle of calcium... Do you think that would be safe to try until I can get to the store tomorrow?


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## Baymule (Apr 2, 2019)

GypsyG said:


> Sorry, I somehow missed this message.  I found a slightly outdated bottle of calcium/magnesium/zinc and a separate bottle of calcium... Do you think that would be safe to try until I can get to the store tomorrow?


I would look at it this way, give it to her, it might save her life. She is in bad shape and could die whether you treat her or not. So I would treat her with what you have.


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## Bunnylady (Apr 2, 2019)

GypsyG said:


> Sorry, I somehow missed this message.  I found a slightly outdated bottle of calcium/magnesium/zinc and a separate bottle of calcium... Do you think that would be safe to try until I can get to the store tomorrow?


Probably.


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## Bunnylady (Apr 2, 2019)

Baymule said:


> I would look at it this way, give it to her, it might save her life. She is in bad shape and could die whether you treat her or not. So I would treat her with what you have.



That was pretty much how I looked at it with Theo - I had to try_ something_. Theo's litter was 3 - 4 weeks old; younger than I like to wean, but if I was right about what was wrong with her, feeding them was killing her. Recovery was gradual, but gratifying.


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## GypsyG (Apr 2, 2019)

Bunnylady said:


> That was pretty much how I looked at it with Theo - I had to try_ something_. Theo's litter was 3 - 4 weeks old; younger than I like to wean, but if I was right about what was wrong with her, feeding them was killing her. Recovery was gradual, but gratifying.


Was her breathing fast and did it sound labored when you found her?  Did she have trouble getting around her cage?  Would she accept the banana or did you have to syringe feed?  How long was it before you saw the first sign of improvement that gave you hope?


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## GypsyG (Apr 2, 2019)

Baymule said:


> I would look at it this way, give it to her, it might save her life. She is in bad shape and could die whether you treat her or not. So I would treat her with what you have.


I was just unsure about the zinc, but I mixed some up for her.  I honestly don't have my hopes up too high, but I won't give up until she does.

This is one of my neices does, and she is going to be heartbroken if she does not make it.


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## Bunnylady (Apr 3, 2019)

Theo had five babies, and I had decided they needed more space, so was going to move them to a bigger cage. When I picked Theo up, she was wide-eyed, shaking, breathing fast; it was only when I put her down that I saw the loss of coordination. I'd never heard or read anything about hypocalcemia in rabbits, but I had heard of it in dogs, cows, etc, and what I was seeing seemed pretty similar, so I played a hunch with what I had on hand (the only vet I knew that would see rabbits had previously told me, "you know more about rabbits than I do."). I had no idea about the dose size, but I hoped that giving it to her by mouth, she'd be unlikely to absorb enough to overdose. The first time, I gave it to her with a syringe, but at some point  I started giving her the mixture in a little dish and she ate it on her own. This was several years ago, and I can't remember just how long it took before I saw results nor how many days I continued to dose her, but I'm pretty sure she started improving by the next day (I was only giving it to her once or twice a day). Since too much calcium can also be a problem, I stopped giving her extra when she no longer seemed wobbly (I figured, since she was no longer nursing, she should be able to get back to normal just eating her usual food).

Five is a lot for a Dwarf (as I recall, a couple weren't hers), but these babies were all fat and lively. Thinking back, the other does that I had lost while lactating had had large litters that were doing very well, and I think that was the key - the does were putting more minerals into the milk than they were taking in. After that, if I had a doe that I thought seemed particularly at risk, I either gave her a few banana mixture doses or put a tablet in her water bottle for a few days (not terribly scientific, I know, but what can I say?)


I hope your girl pulls through!


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## Baymule (Apr 3, 2019)

I keep dolomite lime out for my ewes. Sometimes they don't touch it, sometimes they lick it all up. I have never had any mineral related problems with them while pregnant or lactating. I also keep mineral out for them. I realize this thread is for rabbits, but sometimes what works for one species also works for others. Not real sure how you would keep it out for rabbits, maybe a small tuna can wired to the cage with a teaspoon of dolomite lime in it? Thoughts?


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## GypsyG (Apr 3, 2019)

Bunnylady said:


> Theo had five babies, and I had decided they needed more space, so was going to move them to a bigger cage. When I picked Theo up, she was wide-eyed, shaking, breathing fast; it was only when I put her down that I saw the loss of coordination. I'd never heard or read anything about hypocalcemia in rabbits, but I had heard of it in dogs, cows, etc, and what I was seeing seemed pretty similar, so I played a hunch with what I had on hand (the only vet I knew that would see rabbits had previously told me, "you know more about rabbits than I do."). I had no idea about the dose size, but I hoped that giving it to her by mouth, she'd be unlikely to absorb enough to overdose. The first time, I gave it to her with a syringe, but at some point  I started giving her the mixture in a little dish and she ate it on her own. This was several years ago, and I can't remember just how long it took before I saw results nor how many days I continued to dose her, but I'm pretty sure she started improving by the next day (I was only giving it to her once or twice a day). Since too much calcium can also be a problem, I stopped giving her extra when she no longer seemed wobbly (I figured, since she was no longer nursing, she should be able to get back to normal just eating her usual food).
> 
> Five is a lot for a Dwarf (as I recall, a couple weren't hers), but these babies were all fat and lively. Thinking back, the other does that I had lost while lactating had had large litters that were doing very well, and I think that was the key - the does were putting more minerals into the milk than they were taking in. After that, if I had a doe that I thought seemed particularly at risk, I either gave her a few banana mixture doses or put a tablet in her water bottle for a few days (not terribly scientific, I know, but what can I say?)
> 
> ...


I stayed up with her most of the night. Around 2am she started showing marked improvement.  By 3am she was making her displeasure at being indoors in a box very clear - digging in the corner and thumping loudly.  This morning she seems almost normal.  

Everything you have said has been right on point.  Munchkin is 1/4 French Angora, 1/4 Jersey Wooly, 1/2 mini lop.  She usually only has two or three kits plus adoptees, but this time she had five plus two adoptees.  

Thank you so much!  You're much more knowledgeable about rabbits than any of the vets around here.  We are so blessed here to have your experience!

I really wish that I had posted this thread in the rabbit section rather than emergency so that others might find it easier and it can be helpful to anyone else who finds themself in this situation.  

What became of your doe?  Did any of her offspring ever have problems, is there any indication that there is a hereditary disposition for this?  Did you retire her from breeding after her incident?


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## GypsyG (Apr 3, 2019)

Great news! I fixed a bowl of good 18% food, a few steam crimped oats, a couple of sunflower seeds mixed up with some banana baby food blended with minerals and warm water.  I let it cool and top dressed it with a few dandelion greens and flowers and two slices of banana with peel and then I put it in munchkins hutch. I took Munchkin back to her hutch and she immediately dug into her food and then tanked up on water and washed her face. Yesterday I was sure she was a goner.


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## Hens and Roos (Apr 3, 2019)

Glad to hear that she is feeling better!!


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## Bunnylady (Apr 3, 2019)

Baymule said:


> I keep dolomite lime out for my ewes. Sometimes they don't touch it, sometimes they lick it all up. I have never had any mineral related problems with them while pregnant or lactating. I also keep mineral out for them. I realize this thread is for rabbits, but sometimes what works for one species also works for others. Not real sure how you would keep it out for rabbits, maybe a small tuna can wired to the cage with a teaspoon of dolomite lime in it? Thoughts?



Some people like to give their rabbits alfalfa hay, or alfalfa cubes; since alfalfa has a fairly high calcium content, it probably helps to boost the calcium intake in pregnant/nursing does. A lot of pet rabbits wind up having  problems with_ too much_ calcium, so some rabbit people act like you'd be better off feeding toxic waste rather than alfalfa.I think it's a matter of knowing what you are dealing with. Basic rabbit diets are intended for feeding a wide variety of animals, from growing youngsters to sedentary pets, and can usually work for a couple of litters per year, but animals in intensive breeding programs have extra nutritional needs, and there are feeds meant to be used that way.

Absolutely, there are some times you can extrapolate between species, sometimes you can't (remember the Beverly Hillbillies "Granny" talking about people's gizzards?)



GypsyG said:


> Around 2am she started showing marked improvement. By 3am she was making her displeasure at being indoors in a box very clear - digging in the corner and thumping loudly. This morning she seems almost normal.



SWEET!That absolutely made my day!


GypsyG said:


> What became of your doe? Did any of her offspring ever have problems, is there any indication that there is a hereditary disposition for this? Did you retire her from breeding after her incident?



I gave Theo (the name on her  pedigree was 'Theophany') a break of 6 months or so, then bred her again. She did fine. I really can't remember daughters - like I said, it was years ago. The one doe I particularly remember as having apparently died in convulsions before Theo's experience was a young pedigreed Harlequin; totally no relation. The whole scenario seems to be fairly infrequent in occurrence; I hadn't seen or heard anything suggesting hypocalcemia could happen in rabbits at that time, and the few references I can dredge up now are rather vague and not terribly helpful (along the lines of "it can happen and it's treated with a calcium supplement.")

If Theo's experience and the conclusions I drew from it have been helpful, I am just so glad we were able to be of service.
('Scuse me while I do a little happy dance!)

ETA - since Munchkin is now acting pretty normal, you want to go easy on any additional calcium you give her. I can't remember where I learned this, but calcium can cause constipation if given in sufficient quantities. Having just gotten her eating again, the last thing you want to see is GI stasis!


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## GypsyG (Apr 4, 2019)

Bunnylady said:


> Some people like to give their rabbits alfalfa hay, or alfalfa cubes; since alfalfa has a fairly high calcium content, it probably helps to boost the calcium intake in pregnant/nursing does. A lot of pet rabbits wind up having  problems with_ too much_ calcium, so some rabbit people act like you'd be better off feeding toxic waste rather than alfalfa.I think it's a matter of knowing what you are dealing with. Basic rabbit diets are intended for feeding a wide variety of animals, from growing youngsters to sedentary pets, and can usually work for a couple of litters per year, but animals in intensive breeding programs have extra nutritional needs, and there are feeds meant to be used that way.
> 
> Absolutely, there are some times you can extrapolate between species, sometimes you can't (remember the Beverly Hillbillies "Granny" talking about people's gizzards?)
> 
> ...


I have always put alfalfa cubes in when the babies are old enough to start eating and I keep them with my weanlings because I usually have at least one jerk who digs all of the pellets out of the bin and I don't want them to find themselves without anything to eat while I am at work... I'm thinking now that I will start keeping them with pregnant and nursing does too.  

Another thing that I have noticed that I don't know if it is connected or not but may be worth pondering... I have noticed that my wooly rabbits and other does that pull obscene amounts of fur seem to get a little more run down and depleted when they are caring for a litter.  I wonder if the extra energy that is going into regrowing their fur is a factor keeping them more drained than my short haired does that don't pull as much fur?


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## AmberLops (Apr 4, 2019)

Is she still doing well today?
Just curious because I've had similar problems in the past with my rabbits!


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## GypsyG (Apr 4, 2019)

AmberLops said:


> Is she still doing well today?
> Just curious because I've had similar problems in the past with my rabbits!


She seems to be back to her feisty self, boxing with me when I try to retrieve her food crock, eating like a rabbit twice her size, and shredding her corn husk toys.  Its amazing... when I found her like she was I thought for sure she was a goner.


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## AmberLops (Apr 4, 2019)

GypsyG said:


> She seems to be back to her feisty self, boxing with me when I try to retrieve her food crock, eating like a rabbit twice her size, and shredding her corn husk toys.  Its amazing... when I found her like she was I thought for sure she was a goner.


That's amazing! So glad to hear that and it gives me hope!


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## Baymule (Apr 4, 2019)

Glad that she has recovered.


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## Spokeless Wheel (Apr 10, 2019)

GypsyG said:


> I have a doe who a couple of hours ago started showing symptoms of some kind of neurological problems.  I heard a commotion coming from her cage and when I got there she was bucking/convulsing with her eyes clenched tight... I picked her up to examine her and she stopped convulsions, but retained a weird facial tick... She's drooling a bit.  It is not hot today and none of my other rabbits show any signs of heat stress... I have never seen anything like this in my herd before.  Any ideas?
> 
> I tried to make a video... I apologize for the poor quality.


Facebook Backyard Meat Rabbits yesterday had something happening with rabbits that wasn't normal


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