# Cement floor, wood, or dirt in your barn?



## Stubbornhillfarm (Aug 18, 2011)

I am hoping to get an idea of what the ideal flooring is for our set up.  We have essentially a 3 sided structure off the back of the barn for the cows.  Currently, the hay and their feeding station is up on cement.  Where they stand is dirt.  It is getting smelly and although we clean the area both evening and night, we are now wondering if there is a better answer.  We are in a position to make the floor what ever is the best all the way around right now and want to get it taken care of before winter.  What do you all have for flooring in your inside cow area?  And or, what do you feel is easier, better, etc?  Thanks for your input!  

This is what we have so far.


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## elevan (Aug 18, 2011)

Wood imo is bad because it will eventually rot.  I currently have dirt and don't like it...what I will be doing in the future is taking out several inches of  dirt and layering first sand then heavy stone then pea gravel followed by crushed limestone.  The crushed limestone will be compacted which will allow for great drainage and yet still have the durability of cement.


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## DonnaBelle (Aug 18, 2011)

We have a set up similar to the one in the picture.  We too have dirt, but with a light layer of straw on top.  We pick up the nannie berries each morning.  I sprinkle the wet areas with "Stall Dry" or Sweet PDZ.  They are they same product.  I like the granular kind rather than the powder.

You have a lot more "barn smell" when you have a lot of moisture in the air.  I could tell a big difference after a rain.

I really think Elevan is onto something with her plans to 'redo" her barn floor for drainage.  Hmmmmmmmmm.

DonnaBelle


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Aug 18, 2011)

elevan,  thanks for your response and idea.  Limestone may not be readily available to us up here, but I'm sure we could come up with an alternative.  Dirt is no good!!  :/


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Aug 18, 2011)

DonnaBelle,  I am guessing that "Stall Dry" is close to or is Dianthimus (sp) Earth, that some use for chickens to take out the moisture and keep the odor down.  That would definately be a good short term solution.  I will certainly investigate that at the feed store!


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## Royd Wood (Aug 18, 2011)

Just get some Galloways as they dont like barn life even in a minus 40  
For our early calving cows its straw beds but I can clean these out with front loader


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## DonnaBelle (Aug 18, 2011)

The only thing I don't like about DE is the dust it puts in the air.  Plus, you are NOT SUPPOSED TO BREATH IN THAT STUFF.   It can do damage to your lungs.

As I stated before, I like the stall dry because it is GRANULATED.  I use an big old strainer and sprinkle it on the wet  areas.

DonnaBelle


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## DonnaBelle (Aug 18, 2011)

If you don't have "limestone" then  "screenings" from your local gravel pit will work.  That's the "fines" left over from the rock crusher.

DonnaBelle


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## currycomb (Aug 18, 2011)

with cows, thinking concrete all the way. you can add a rubber mat and sawdust if you want to make a softer bed, but no mud and gunk once the ground gets saturated with urine or water. much eaisier to clean out too


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## goodhors (Aug 18, 2011)

Cement has always been popular for cattle flooring around here, easy to clean, stays in good shape forever.  My issue 
with it is how frozen liquids make cement slippery in cold weather.  Especially true if you clean with a scraper or loader, don't put
bedding down.  I HATE watching the cattle hurry out of the way, then slip or fall on the icy places.  Rubber mats over 
cement does not offer good drainage for liquids unless covered with a deep layer of sawdust or chopped straw.  Chopped
straw is REALLY absorbent, makes great bedding.  Lots better than speading baled straw which is also slippery under large 
animals on cement.

We have the crushed stone, power compacted with rubber mats above in the horse stalls.  Mats are warm to lay on, non-conductive
of body heat in the cold weather, frozen times.

Having learned from our mistakes of the past, I would STRONGLY suggest using larger size stone down against the dirt.  I would
also suggest you get some geotextile fabric for keeping layers separated.  I would put fabric down on dug out floor.  You will want 
at least 6" compacted on the dirt, fabric layer, then the finer stones as your next layer, probably a compacted 4 inches.  Then 
you could put rubber mats above.  Geotextile fabric can often be found at Landscape places.  We bought a whole roll, used it
to stabilize the stone for a parking area.  That dirt had ALREADY eaten two semi loads of fill, couldn't even find the gravel.  We 
laid the fabric, put crushed asphault on it 10 inches deep, NO MORE PROBLEMS!!   The semi truck and trailer there never sink, never 
stuck at all.  Same with the two trailers beside the semi.  Fabric made all the difference.  Fabric is very thin, light, easy to work
with, easy to cut with knife or scissors, some sort of plastic felt-like stuff.  Just amazing the differences fabric makes to keep 
dirt, rock, fill, levels apart.  Our clay dirt just eats fill without layering in the fabric.  You do want a good deep layer above, to 
keep animals from getting down into the fabric and tearing it out.  We have used parts of the roll all over the place, to hold gravel,
stone in place to prevent mud.  We just looked online for Geotextile fabric and ordered online.  No one local had any. 

Using the limestone if you can get it, helps keep smells away, sort of self cleaning.  If no limestone, the other crushed rocks 
suggested will work, but you will probably be putting lime down for smells now and again.  Get heavy, thick rubber mats that 
will stay in place under cattle.  Fit them well on LEVEL surface, and they should be good for you.  Some folks remove the mats
yearly, add stone to any low spots, get floor level again, put lime down if not using limestone, put the mats back in.

Power tamper will do a MUCH superior job to any hand tamping, driving machines on stone, to get the packed down floor.  We 
rent the power tamper at the Rental store.

The advantage to stone is good drainage, less chance of slippery floor for downed cattle in cold weather.  Plus you can take it out 
if you should want to change things at a later point in time.  Rubber mats last pretty well under hard use, can always be moved 
to another place or use, if cattle cease to be fun at your house.  Easily resold.  I put my worn mats under gates here, so no sinking
into mud!!  However shod horses do age a stall mat faster than bare hoof cattle ever will.  I love not losing my boots at the gate while 
bringing horses in!!


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Aug 18, 2011)

We do have a few rubber mats.  We used them when we first got out two Jerseys.  Kind of thought they were a pain and got moldy underneath.  Maybe if we add some stone for drainage and then put the mats on it would be better.  It would be under $300.00 to get the rest of the floor poured concrete, but I do understand about icy  build up, etc in the winter.  I will have to check into the limestone as two of you have suggested it.  Thanks!  You don't really hear of it around here, but maybe we can get hold of some.  I appreaciate all of your comments and suggestions.  Hopefully we can find a solution that works well for us in our area.  And I love the idea of Galloways!!  Maybe someday...


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 19, 2011)

I would go for cement.  It's used all the time with large dairies and they just groove it so it's not as slippery. There are times when a cow will panic and slip, but if you're just doing it for your own cows (which are likely more tame and less likely to panic) they'll probably be fine.  Even the occasional slip or two would be offset by the ease of cleaning. Since your area is under shelter, the only wetness you'll have to deal with is from urine.  You can do a light layer of sawdust/shavings over the floor and then scrape as needed.  You can get one of those nifty barn scrapers  and scrape the floor out and just reapply a thin layer of shavings/sawdust.  Or, chopped straw is nice, like Goodhors says, but you'd need to buy a bale chopper.


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## goodhors (Aug 19, 2011)

I use a leaf shredder for chopping my straw.  But the chopper used for silage would work if you own one, or a small wood
chipper is also good.  Chopping straw is a bit dusty, so have good ventilation.  I have friends who use the silage chopper and 
send all the chopped straw up into the barn mow for bedding use later.  They say it saves time and work, only handle the straw
once into the chopper and then down thru holes in the floor of mow for stalls.  No stacking, moving bales to bed and chopped 
straw is WONDERFUL as bedding with much more absorbency  than baled straw.  Chopped has lots of exposed ends, which will absorb
liquid fast, while baled straw doesn't have that many ends, has the slippery coating on stems (wheat straw) which prevents
any absorbing.

Forgot to mention the grooving in cement, but aggieterpkatie did.  I worked as "milkmaid" after school doing dairy cattle on cement.
In our bad weather, the grooves got filled with ice, frozen urine, so they were not helpful all the time.  Grooves may also snag the
pusher tool shown.  We still had cows slip and fall at times on the grooved cement, which is why I really didn't recommend it.  Cows
slipping hard, or falling on cement, can be fatal by badly pulling or breaking something, so they don't recover from it at times.  Wrenched hips, broken
shoulder were two animals that got sold for meat.  Cattle are big and don't fall well or gracefully, it is a BIG thud on hard surface.  I 
would think the OP gets some bad weather up in their area over winter, so this could be a problem for them.  Maybe those mats at the 
entrance on cement, then grooved cement inside with deeper bedding out of the weather could work.  

I have been using some rubber stall mats outside our large barn doors for a couple years now, instead of putting in grooved cement ramps.  The winter
ice around here can be very nasty, and even cleaned cement will get wet and freeze quickly.  The rubber mats in black, seem to quickly absorb
any sunshine and are often the first place melted clean in the AM, for good footing leading animals in or out.  Husband and I talked about doing 
cement ramps again, have decided to leave the mats in place instead.  I am not seeing any slipping animals or ice build up, mats are certainly easy 
to maintain and don't hold the cold, like cement will in winter for frozen surfaces.  I disregard any mold on the bottom side of mats, wet and dark 
places will grow mold whatever you do.  Benefits of softer surface, non-heat conducting mats, ability to move them readily, long use life, really 
makes stall mats useful to me for quite a few purposes around the place.


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Aug 19, 2011)

aggieterpkatie and goodhors,  Thanks to both for your added info.  We do get some nasty winter weather.  Even though, the shelter does have a roof on it with some of the panels being clear to let the sun in, the entire end is open, so a bit of snow, ice, etc will get in there.  Not to mention frozen urine. They are really starting to eat a lot more and spend more time in there, so I am thinking we are going to put the mats back after some crushed stone, compacted as best we can.  I would never have thought of a wood chipper or leaf shredder for chopping straw.  What a great idea!  My husband has just built a firewood processor, so soon, we shall have some free sawdust as well!


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## kstaven (Aug 20, 2011)

Mats will help over concrete. One other thing to consider is swimming pool paint over concrete. Is is a rubberized no slip surface and stands up to uric acid and seals the concrete well. Ice doesn't like to bond to it like bare concrete and it cleans up easily.

Benjamin Moore sells the best one by far.


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## Berner Mom (Feb 18, 2014)

I like the swimming pool paint idea!  I have a small concrete pad outside the shed which was the worst mud/manure mix.  It just ate any stone I put there.  Even though it is small at about 16 square feet I do worry about slipping on it.  Thanks for the advice!


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## Egg_Newton (Feb 18, 2014)

I have dirt and really like it.   But we do have stone layered underneath also. I don't usually use bedding but had to this winter because of the bitter cold and don't really have odor issues. I just use a shovel to scrap up the goat berries and hay. We are planning on building a new barn this summer and I really like the idea of using limestone.


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## greybeard (Feb 19, 2014)

Egg_Newton said:


> I have dirt and really like it.   But we do have stone layered underneath also. I don't usually use bedding but had to this winter because of the bitter cold and don't really have odor issues. I just use a shovel to scrap up the goat berries and hay. We are planning on building a new barn this summer and I really like the idea of using limestone.


Same here. Most of the things we do "for livestock" has as much to do with our own comfort or convenience as it does the animals. Except in the harshest weather cattle will choose to be outside rather than inside. They can handle a lot of cold, and a lot of wettness but not much of both at the same time, tho it is worth noting that cattle and bison not only survived on the open range for hundreds of years, they prospered and multiplied.


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