# Excess Hay Supply



## misfitmorgan (Jun 15, 2016)

Last year was a bumper year for hay crop here and there is a huge excess. This year looks like it will be the same,  first cut has been ready to take for over a week now but people are scared to cut cause their barns are still full of last years hay.

So that leads me to my next question which is really an idea a friend of ours had, altered a bit.

We have been considering for a few years now, running loads of hay down outside of michigan. Our friend suggested and wants to take them to flordia..i think flordia has a lot of imported hay already and other places suffer with far less.

So would anyone consider buying hay that was trucked in? Is there a preference, square or round bales? What type of hay do you have locally and what is the typical cost?

We usually have in michigan 1st and 2nd cut grass hay, 1st and 2nd cut grass/alfalfa mix, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd alfalfa hay.

Here grass hay is normally a mix of clover, brome, timothy, orchard grass, trefoil, festulolium, kentucky bluegrass, and fescue. Grass/alfalfa mix is the same with something like 5lbs to the acre alfalfa added.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 15, 2016)

I know individuals who buy truckloads of hay from out of state.
There are also various feed supply places that get hay from out of state.
When the local stuff I get from the farmers ran out in early spring, and the rain kept everyone from cutting, then I was buying square bales from a feed supply place of timothy/orchard.  2nd cut when he could get it, first cut when he couldn't.

There is a very limited supply of local grown alfalfa, so most of that comes from out of state.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 15, 2016)

Oh and Florida probably produces a lot of hay themselves.  Florida is a big cattle state.
They have a type of forage that only grows in Fla, and S. Ga, over in to AL called "perennial peanut".  Wonderful product.  A legume comparable to alfalfa.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 16, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> Oh and Florida probably produces a lot of hay themselves.  Florida is a big cattle state.
> They have a type of forage that only grows in Fla, and S. Ga, over in to AL called "perennial peanut".  Wonderful product.  A legume comparable to alfalfa.



Flordia probly does produce a lot of its own but from hay going out of state from michigan, flordia and texas are the destinations usually. DH old boss until about 4 yrs ago used to run semi loads of hay to flordia and he would do roughly 45 semi loads a year of all square hay, had a warehouse down there and everything. Mostly because the hay he sold up here for $3/bale in flordia was $12/bale so taking a semi load of 300+ bales down more then made it worth it for him. He only stopped because his brother who was the CDL driver died. THere is also a hay buyer up here who buys round bales for $30-35 all he can get and trucks it down to texas, i saw him go to one farm and buy all 125 rounds bales from the guy and cut him a check on the spot. 2 days later the hay was all gone off that place. A lot of farmers here will sell directly to hay buyers because it is gone and done with and he has his winter money instead of trying to sell it for months and possibly getting stuck with it over winter. Other farmers will never sell to them because the hay seller pays roughly 0.50 less per square bale then they can sell at and $5-10 less per round bale.

Atm round bales from last year here are $15-20 for grass, $20-30 for alfalfa....or free. Lots of farmers are cleaning otu their barns and giving the hay away or selling square bales at $1/bale and round at $5/bale. This yeah looks like it is gonna be a hay flush again for us, we are going to start our first cut this weekend on one of our feilds. Thankfully we are down to just 48 Acres of hay to cut for ourselves but we are  custom baling about 30 acres for other people. Hay yield this year will be high again roughly 150 bales per acre per cut compared to two years ago in the semi-drought with 60 bales per acre.

So we should come out with an estimated 10,800 square bales after second cut(averaging second cut at 75 bales/acre for grass hay)... we might skip second cut cause our loft only holds around 5,000 squares


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## Ferguson K (Jun 16, 2016)

Man I wish I could find hay at those prices, year old or not!


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 16, 2016)

i know its cheap compared to what some of you guys have to pay...i saw someone say they got a really good deal on these round bales for $75 so they got 5.....for me thats  Even more insane is some guys up here take rounds to texas, then unroll and rebale then to squares...makes roughly 27 square bales they sell for $10-15 per bale so they turned the $45 bale into a $270-405 bale....34 round bales to a load makes that load worth $9,180-13,770....which is why farmers here get mad cause they only got paid $1,530 for that hay. Most hay buyers prefer atm to take hay to texas.

The highest price here is $45/round bale maybe $50 if it is top top quality and heavy hard heart bales, but even at $45 thats 2nd or 3rd cut pure alfalfa with no rain stored inside and net wrapped, average 1st cut alfalfa rounds net wrapped stored outside are generally $30/bale..less if you take if from the field.

Honestly i dont think i could sleep at night if was charging that much for hay, it would make me sick. We rebale rounds sometimes but its a $45 round and comes out worth $67.50 for us as we only charge 2.50/bale for hay. Straw we sell for 2/bale cause it is a by product.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 16, 2016)

In North Carolina we have plenty of fescue and coastal Bermuda.
Not much Timothy/Orchard.
Very little alfalfa.
So those products are being imported.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 16, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> In North Carolina we have plenty of fescue and coastal Bermuda.
> Not much Timothy/Orchard.
> Very little alfalfa.
> So those products are being imported.



Whats the price difference on those then compared to the locally grown? We dont import any here so its rather novel for me.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 16, 2016)

You can get local grown Bermuda or Fescue for $5-$7  per square or $40 for a round.
I have a source of local alfalfa for $8-$10 per square, and some round bales for $60 (this first cut was late and is stemmy)

I go to one feed store and buy 1st cut Timothy/Orchard for $9.75 and 2nd cut for $10.75.  I got some with a lot of clover in it for $9.75.
Mule City Feeds in Smithfield NC has the large square bales (75+ lbs) of pure Alfalfa for $18.75 but it is really high quality.  I think they get it from Nebraska.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 16, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> You can get local grown Bermuda or Fescue for $5-$7  per square or $40 for a round.
> I have a source of local alfalfa for $8-$10 per square, and some round bales for $60 (this first cut was late and is stemmy)
> 
> I go to one feed store and buy 1st cut Timothy/Orchard for $9.75 and 2nd cut for $10.75.  I got some with a lot of clover in it for $9.75.
> Mule City Feeds in Smithfield NC has the large square bales (75+ lbs) of pure Alfalfa for $18.75 but it is really high quality.  I think they get it from Nebraska.



Merm...wait a minute. If a Large square is 75+lbs...whats a normal square?


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## Ferguson K (Jun 16, 2016)

Square bales here go from $10-$15

Round bales go from $30 (last years hay, stores outside, might have mildew... etc. Etc. ) to $120 for top quality bales.

We pay $45-50 depending on the bale.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 16, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> Merm...wait a minute. If a Large square is 75+lbs...whats a normal square?



The bales of alfalfa they get from out west are larger than the square bales locally.  I don't know what they weigh exactly.
Different machines bale different sizes.  Round bales can be different too. Some are 4x4 and some are 5x5.


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## Mini Horses (Jun 16, 2016)

I just pd $150 for 1100# square of last years orchard.  Nice hay, still some smell, color,etc. & goats like it.   Bet it was awesome when first baled!!  
A friend is a "retired" driver, with own rig (does some short hauls, etc) and he used to go to NY & get trailer load, resold some, balance for his use & I got it for cost.   Good deal.    He has about 4 trailers and would load them & store.   Sometimes he'd pick up some freight going to help defray fuel costs for his trip.

Here we pay $9-14 for a good mixed hay, 45-60# bales normally.
Alfalfa, I'd love fresh, not overripe, to buy.  Hard to get here & costly when you do.


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## Baymule (Jun 16, 2016)

In Texas, alfalfa is imported because of blister beetles. We pay $50 for 5x5 round bales, mostly Bermuda, top quality hay AND our hay guy lives around the corner from us, stores it in his barn and delivers it to us a bale at a time. We are blessed. Square bales from individuals go for about $6 a bale. @Ferguson K if you have a place to store it, it would pay you to bring trailer up here and load up on square bales. When we lived in Livingston, I found square bales in Center for $4 and I went and got 100 bales in the field.

@misfitmorgan look for where droughts are. In 2011, Texas had a searing drought so bad, that the trees were dying. We had over 2 months of 100 degree plus days. The drought was from 2010-2013, but 2011 was the worst since 1895. We paid $80 for crappy round bales and were glad to get it. Did they make money? Sure. Were we mad about it? No, we were grateful because in other places round bales ran up to $150. Your excess can be another's blessing. You don't do it for free, you have to make money, so don't feel guilty about it. Look on the hay exchange or hay hotline for buyers. Here's the Texas hay hotline, but lots of other states have hotlines.

http://www.hayexchange.com/oha/display_oha.php

http://www.gotexan.org/HayHotlineHome.aspx


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## cjc (Jun 16, 2016)

Interesting! On the west coast we had the exact opposite problem. We barely had any rain which resulted in not much hay. Hay was VERY expensive for the past 10 months but it is starting to turn around this year. Our standard round bale cost is about $60, it went as high as $120 last summer. These bales are about 1,000lbs and the silage will sell for more, $80 a bale or $160 at its peak, silage of course weighs more.

To answer your question I think there is definitely a need for this but you would have to look at your total trucking cost. Hay is heavy and it fills a truck load fast. We looked into getting hay from Washington state to help accommodate our shortage but the cost was too high but then at the same time it required them crossing a border as we are in Canada.

I am jealous of your full barns! Up until just a few weeks ago we were struggling huge just to find hay people wanted to sell.

I don't know how close you are to a Canadian border but we would like some of your hay haha.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 16, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> The bales of alfalfa they get from out west are larger than the square bales locally.  I don't know what they weigh exactly.
> Different machines bale different sizes.  Round bales can be different too. Some are 4x4 and some are 5x5.



Here common bale size for rounds are 4x5. Normal square bales are 50-80lbs ranging up to 110lbs...less then 50lbs here is seen as low quality and sell for less maybe $2/bale...any rained on hay is low quality $25 for rounds no mildew, $20 with mildew. Rained on square are $2/bale.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 16, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> Here common bale size for rounds are 4x5. Normal square bales are 50-80lbs ranging up to 110lbs...less then 50lbs here is seen as low quality and sell for less maybe $2/bale...any rained on hay is low quality $25 for rounds no mildew, $20 with mildew. Rained on square are $2/bale.


I wouldn't want hay that had been rained on with or without mildew if you paid me to take it


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 16, 2016)

Baymule said:


> In Texas, alfalfa is imported because of blister beetles. We pay $50 for 5x5 round bales, mostly Bermuda, top quality hay AND our hay guy lives around the corner from us, stores it in his barn and delivers it to us a bale at a time. We are blessed. Square bales from individuals go for about $6 a bale. @Ferguson K if you have a place to store it, it would pay you to bring trailer up here and load up on square bales. When we lived in Livingston, I found square bales in Center for $4 and I went and got 100 bales in the field.
> 
> @misfitmorgan look for where droughts are. In 2011, Texas had a searing drought so bad, that the trees were dying. We had over 2 months of 100 degree plus days. The drought was from 2010-2013, but 2011 was the worst since 1895. We paid $80 for crappy round bales and were glad to get it. Did they make money? Sure. Were we mad about it? No, we were grateful because in other places round bales ran up to $150. Your excess can be another's blessing. You don't do it for free, you have to make money, so don't feel guilty about it. Look on the hay exchange or hay hotline for buyers. Here's the Texas hay hotline, but lots of other states have hotlines.
> 
> ...


Imported hay can have blister beetles too
Depends on where it came from
A half bale killed 4 horses here last year


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 16, 2016)

cjc said:


> Interesting! On the west coast we had the exact opposite problem. We barely had any rain which resulted in not much hay. Hay was VERY expensive for the past 10 months but it is starting to turn around this year. Our standard round bale cost is about $60, it went as high as $120 last summer. These bales are about 1,000lbs and the silage will sell for more, $80 a bale or $160 at its peak, silage of course weighs more.
> 
> To answer your question I think there is definitely a need for this but you would have to look at your total trucking cost. Hay is heavy and it fills a truck load fast. We looked into getting hay from Washington state to help accommodate our shortage but the cost was too high but then at the same time it required them crossing a border as we are in Canada.
> 
> ...



I live in michigan so if I go south about 4hrs , north about 5hrs, northwest bout 8hrs.

We would have to figure out costs DH has a cdl so no problem there but other logistics would have to be figured out.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 16, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> Here common bale size for rounds are 4x5. Normal square bales are 50-80lbs ranging up to 110lbs...less then 50lbs here is seen as low quality and sell for less maybe $2/bale...any rained on hay is low quality $25 for rounds no mildew, $20 with mildew. Rained on square are $2/bale.



Most people don't unless they are feeding cows. Some people buy small amounts if they are going to feed it fast. Rain washes out the color and will make it dusty as it dries but if you use it quickly it's makes no difference still it is not desired here either hence the lower price. This year farmers are talking about brush hogging hay ground cause "its not worth cutting" cause they are stuck with large amounts of last year's hay still. Ironically they were saying it last year to though and still all cut.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 16, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> Imported hay can have blister beetles too
> Depends on where it came from
> A half bale killed 4 horses here last year



No idea what a blister beetle is, we dont have them here. People here can get super picky about hay, esp for horses. One lady wanted hay only if it had no bugs, or grasshoppers etc. told her we couldn't help her. worst thing Herrr for hay is Autumn olive which the dnr planted...stupidly.


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## Baymule (Jun 16, 2016)

*Blister beetles* are beetles of the family *Meloidae*, so called for their defensive secretion of a blistering agent, cantharidin. About 7,500 species are known worldwide. Many are conspicuous and some are aposematically colored, announcing their toxicity to would-be predators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blister_beetle

But when ingested by livestock, especially horses, the animals may become sick and even die. These insects produce a highly toxic drug called cantharidin.

http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G4569


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 16, 2016)

If you don't know what a blister beetle is then you might not want to get in the hay business
Or at least make aure you have good insurance
Even if you don't have them there now you could get them
And like I said a half bale can kill 4 horses
Good luck


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## Baymule (Jun 16, 2016)

Blister beetles mainly go after alfalfa and they are not in all states.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 16, 2016)

K


Baymule said:


> Blister beetles mainly go after alfalfa and they are not in all states.


You are correct
But you better not get in the hay business if you've never heard of them


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 16, 2016)

Just talked to my wife
Forgot her dad lost 12 heifers about 10 years ago with local Bermuda too high in Nitrogen
If you are going to sell hay better know what you are doing


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 16, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> K
> 
> You are correct
> But you better not get in the hay business if you've never heard of them



That wasn't me that was bay mule lol

But no we dont have then in michigan, we have no toxic bugs in hay, just some plants that we avoid when doing hay. Generally high nitrogen in michigan is from fertilizing with chemicals and having your ratios off. We do not fertilize unless we send a soil sample to msu...We can also send hay samples to msu for analysis which we would if we were selling out of the area. Atm I'm not sure we even would I was just curious on hay prices and how it differs around the U.S.


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## Baymule (Jun 16, 2016)

If you have lots of good quality hay, there are people in drought or dry situations that would be glad to buy it.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 17, 2016)

Baymule said:


> If you have lots of good quality hay, there are people in drought or dry situations that would be glad to buy it.



It's just a thought for now. We have been doing hay together for 3 yrs DH and i so i dont know a ton about it i know more about buying hay then selling it or cutting it, etc. DH however has been doing hay since he was 6yrs old, in Iowa until he moved here 7 yrs ago. He has always worked on farms/for farmers as his main job or on the side. He knows how to run all the equipment for any kind of farming and how to fix it all or trouble shoot it. He still shocks me on how he can remember all that stuff and everything else he knows how to do, etc...its crazy. So basically hes the one with all the info and i am just the one with all the ideas. Often my ideas are not feasible and he tells me if they are not and why.

I dunno i just thought it might be nice to help people get some more reasonably priced hay instead of letting it sit and rot in the field. Thanks for the info all.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 17, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> That wasn't me that was bay mule lol
> 
> But no we dont have then in michigan, we have no toxic bugs in hay, just some plants that we avoid when doing hay. Generally high nitrogen in michigan is from fertilizing with chemicals and having your ratios off. We do not fertilize unless we send a soil sample to msu...We can also send hay samples to msu for analysis which we would if we were selling out of the area. Atm I'm not sure we even would I was just curious on hay prices and how it differs around the U.S.



That didn't come out right anyway.
Just that there is some risk in the hay business.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 17, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> That didn't come out right anyway.
> Just that there is some risk in the hay business.


i know OFA there is risk in all business though, i would never just jump into it and be like yeah we got hay for sale without taking some precautions. Even just selling farm animals people kill the animals and then come back and try to say we owe them a new one. Well no because you had them for 3 months and they died from pneumonia so i dont think that's our fault. One lady took a 8 week old weaned kid....decided they were not old enough to be weaned so put it on bottled milk only...no hay, no grain and only feed 12oz 3 times a day. She couldnt figure out why he was always s hungry and wanted to sleep a lot. We told her 4 times he needs hay, grain and water she said ok i will give him some then would call back again and be like there is no improvement....did you give him hay and grain? well no but i took him outside to eat some grass for 30 minutes.  We told her to take him to the vet so she did and the vet told her he needed hay, grain etc...same as us then she wanted us to pay the vet bill. We told her we would not and to give him hay and grain, 2 weeks later she had her lawyer send us a letter saying the kid had died due to our poor quality of livestock which she had vet records to prove and wanted a full refund and the vet bills paid. We send the lawyer a copy of the bill of sale with the date highlighted and the original letter with the vet date highlighted and a copy of our "Liability/sale clause" she had signed giving her 30 days to return the kid for a full refund. We never heard anything after that. She had him for over two months though, the poor kid.


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## Baymule (Jun 17, 2016)

There are stupid people and then there people so ignorant and willfully stupid, the descriptive terms must dive into vile and ugly language. $%#@#$$%^&&*


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## Ponker (Jun 18, 2016)

We buy alfalfa in small square bales usually around 60-75 lbs each for $5.50 - $6.85 depending on the cut. We buy orchardgrass/alfalfa mixed small bales for $4.75. It's locally grown and I buy direct from the farmer. He also sells to the local feed store which resells it for over $8 for the orchardgrass/alfalfa mix and higher for the alfalfa. It's tough to find good hay for a reasonable price here. We're lucky to have found a great local farmer who sells hay by word of mouth. One thing I'm having trouble finding is straw. I have to pay $5.00 a bale for an extra small square bale. It's tough to find good straw.


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## Baymule (Jun 18, 2016)

Haha, we don't even have straw here. @Ponker your hay prices sound really good!


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 20, 2016)

Baymule said:


> There are stupid people and then there people so ignorant and willfully stupid, the descriptive terms must dive into vile and ugly language. $%#@#$$%^&&*



 i completely agree, we tried to get the kid back but she wouldnt give him back. We called the humane society and animal control and asked them to help get the goat back or atleast look at him..apprently they were to busy to get around to it. We called the police they said they couldnt help, once we sold him, he wasnt our property anymore.

AC and humane society here are a joke there was a local lady who had 80 live dogs all miscared for extremely and 47 goats seized from her....it took 3 yrs for them to do it. When inspecting the property they found remains of over 150 dog/puppies/goats/kids. Then they patted themselves on the back for their efforts. The lady was literally called in for cruelty by at least 30 people and it still took 3yrs.



Baymule said:


> Haha, we don't even have straw here. @Ponker your hay prices sound really good!



Do they not grow oats or wheat in texas?

So far we have contracted 3 acres of oat straw at the end of the season. Hopefully more cause idont wanna buy straw though we have two round bales of chopped straw left still which should last nearly to harvest for this seasons. We only bed our stalls and one small area in the barn in summer and it is all very light on bedding.




Ponker said:


> We buy alfalfa in small square bales usually around 60-75 lbs each for $5.50 - $6.85 depending on the cut. We buy orchardgrass/alfalfa mixed small bales for $4.75. It's locally grown and I buy direct from the farmer. He also sells to the local feed store which resells it for over $8 for the orchardgrass/alfalfa mix and higher for the alfalfa. It's tough to find good hay for a reasonable price here. We're lucky to have found a great local farmer who sells hay by word of mouth. One thing I'm having trouble finding is straw. I have to pay $5.00 a bale for an extra small square bale. It's tough to find good straw.



So your direct price is closest to ours then....least that ive seen anyone post so far. Straw is $2/bale for large square bales around 40#


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## Baymule (Jun 20, 2016)

Do they not grow oats or wheat in texas?

In the panhandle, no where close to here.


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## Ponker (Jun 21, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> So your direct price is closest to ours then....least that ive seen anyone post so far. Straw is $2/bale for large square bales around 40#



A guy working on my septic system told me his sister bales straw. He's gonna ask her pricing. WOOHOO maybe I've found some straw.

I had a couple of bales of big coarse straw that I liked very much. This new straw is fine with lots of tops. Beggars can't be choosers so I'm not complaining although I do hope that the big bales from Jimmy's sister are course.


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## misfitmorgan (Jul 5, 2016)

i dont really have a straw preference but we most often use Oat straw because we grow oats.

So far we have around 100 bales left from last year's hay some grass mix some alfalfa. This year we have approx 750 bales of beautiful first cut grass and of really nice first cut alfalfa hay...We still have another 25 acres to finish up first cut on, 5 acres on the alfalfa field and 20 on a grass field...the 5 acres should yield us roughly 600 more bales..it is quite thick but short and nicely ripe. The 20 acre grass field is always a toss up one year we took over 600 bales off it the next year we got about 350 and last year we only got about 300 but we only took one cut the last 2 yrs and last year we got rained out and only got about 2/3s of the field cut and put up.

So first cut should total approx 1,650 bales....second cut probly around 850 bales and if we get a third on the alfalfa probly around 500 more bales. So season total should be some where north of 3,000 bales. Our Current livestock eats about 375 square bales a year.


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## Kusanar (Jul 6, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> i dont really have a straw preference but we most often use Oat straw because we grow oats.
> 
> So far we have around 100 bales left from last year's hay some grass mix some alfalfa. This year we have approx 750 bales of beautiful first cut grass and of really nice first cut alfalfa hay...We still have another 25 acres to finish up first cut on, 5 acres on the alfalfa field and 20 on a grass field...the 5 acres should yield us roughly 600 more bales..it is quite thick but short and nicely ripe. The 20 acre grass field is always a toss up one year we took over 600 bales off it the next year we got about 350 and last year we only got about 300 but we only took one cut the last 2 yrs and last year we got rained out and only got about 2/3s of the field cut and put up.
> 
> So first cut should total approx 1,650 bales....second cut probly around 850 bales and if we get a third on the alfalfa probly around 500 more bales. So season total should be some where north of 3,000 bales. Our Current livestock eats about 375 square bales a year.



Sounds like you need more livestock! lol


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## misfitmorgan (Jul 6, 2016)

Kusanar said:


> Sounds like you need more livestock! lol



Haha we are working on it as fast as we can! The livestock isnt cooperating.


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