# Goat ate chicken food!! Help!



## Virginia (Jul 29, 2009)

My Nigerian dwarf whether got into the chicken area and gorged on chicken food (medicated chicken starter).  I'm not sure how much but his abdomen was noticeably distended.  What should I do? I've read that chicken food can be toxic to goats.


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## cmjust0 (Jul 29, 2009)

It's not so much that it's toxic, per se...it's just not right for goats.  My opinion is that your biggest risk right now is bloat, simply because your wether gorged on free-choice grain.    A situation like this is really no _less_ serious if they gorge on goat feed instead of chicken feed.

Now, he may or may not bloat depending on how much of it he got.  If it were me, I'd probably keep a really close eye on him and massage around on his rumen..  If his left side started to get high and tight, or if he started stretching his neck or grinding his teeth or displaying any other signs of discomfort, I'd drench him with a few ounces of mineral or vegetable oil and continue massaging..  I wouldn't let him lie down, either...we'd be walking around, if he were mine.

Or...you could just drench him now.  It all depends on how distended he looks and feels, and I'm not there.  If you're not sure, call a vet!

As for the oil...  Some say not to use vegetable oil because it adds to the load of an already-overloaded digestive system; some say not to use mineral oil because they can't taste it and many not know to swallow, which could cause them to aspirate.  That's your call.  I'd probably use canola because I can remember where it is right this second, and because -- to my thinking -- a few ounces of that are a drop in the bucket compared to bloat.

Also, if you treat for bloat, it's wise to go ahead and also treat preventatively for enterotoxemia with C&D anti-toxin.  If the GI stops moving, bacteria called Cl. Perfringens types C & D can "bloom" and begin producing toxins...you don't want that, either.

Describe "noticeably distended" for us, if you would..?


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## Beekissed (Jul 29, 2009)

My sheep pop into the hen house every chance they get and steal laying mash....they don't get enough to get foundered but they definitely come out of there with "coke" noses!  

Hasn't seemed to harm them.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 29, 2009)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> My sheep pop into the hen house every chance they get and steal laying mash....they don't get enough to get foundered but they definitely come out of there with "coke" noses!
> 
> Hasn't seemed to harm them.


I've learned that sheep and goats are quite a bit different. Chicken feed for goats is a very big no no as it throws off their PH and things go haywire.


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## username taken (Jul 29, 2009)

chicken feed is a very big no no for all ruminants


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## Beekissed (Jul 29, 2009)

username taken said:
			
		

> chicken feed is a very big no no for all ruminants


Tell us why?


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## Blon Dalone (Jul 29, 2009)

It turns the males into serial killers and flips the females into instant menopause.  It also makes them dance.


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## Blon Dalone (Jul 29, 2009)

Sorry.......Crown Royal.......I actually would like to know the answer as to why it's bad for them.  Even if it's not medicated feed? What if it's not chicken crumbles but just chicken scratch?


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## freemotion (Jul 29, 2009)




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## username taken (Jul 30, 2009)

alot of chicken feed will contain RAM - Restricted Animal Material. Basically, proteins derived from animal protein, meat, blood or bone meal etc. because chickens are omnivores they benefit from a bit of animal protein in the diet, pigs are the same. but the animal protein will burn out the goats liver and kidneys, and also it is illegal to feed RAM to ruminants because of the health hazards to people, so all of that is #1 reason not to feed chicken feed to ruminants. 

#2 reason is the medication - most of the time for coccidiosis, and although usually it is the same stuff which is needed for goats (goats benefit from coccidiostat too) sometimes it is formulated differently for chickens and may have additives/whatnot which dont get along well with the goats

#3 reason is the mineral/vitamin composition of chicken feed - and this is why the 'dont feed goats chicken feed' rule applies to grain only scratch mixes as well as other chicken feeds. simply put, a chicken's mineral/vitamin needs are very different to the needs of a goat, and the feed is formulated especially to meet the needs of the chickens, but it will not be what the goat requires.


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## KellyHM (Jul 30, 2009)

My goats go after the chicken feed every chance they get.    They prefer medicated...


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## username taken (Jul 30, 2009)

kelly, yes, the buggers tend to like it. same as one of my boys really likes dry dog food


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## KellyHM (Jul 30, 2009)

And the silly chickens like the goat food if the goats happen to miss a piece...


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## m.holloway (Jul 30, 2009)

well, my 2 cents is just try to feed what the bags says, Goat feed for goats, chicken feed for chicks, cow feed for cows and ect. Sounds like I'm a scaryed cat, But I like my pets to be happy. Not having stomache problems. Now if the feed reads the same ingred. on every bag. I don't think I would try to keep each animal out of the other ones feed can. i know when my animals get sick. This group does give me good advice and I haven't lost one yet.


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## cmjust0 (Jul 30, 2009)

Ok, so...what happened to the goat, Virginia?

:/


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## Beekissed (Jul 30, 2009)

username taken said:
			
		

> alot of chicken feed will contain RAM - Restricted Animal Material. Basically, proteins derived from animal protein, meat, blood or bone meal etc. because chickens are omnivores they benefit from a bit of animal protein in the diet, pigs are the same. but the animal protein will burn out the goats liver and kidneys, and also it is illegal to feed RAM to ruminants because of the health hazards to people, so all of that is #1 reason not to feed chicken feed to ruminants.
> 
> #2 reason is the medication - most of the time for coccidiosis, and although usually it is the same stuff which is needed for goats (goats benefit from coccidiostat too) sometimes it is formulated differently for chickens and may have additives/whatnot which dont get along well with the goats
> 
> #3 reason is the mineral/vitamin composition of chicken feed - and this is why the 'dont feed goats chicken feed' rule applies to grain only scratch mixes as well as other chicken feeds. simply put, a chicken's mineral/vitamin needs are very different to the needs of a goat, and the feed is formulated especially to meet the needs of the chickens, but it will not be what the goat requires.


So, if your chook feed is not medicated, contains no animal proteins(which mine does not) and they only take an occasional snoot full like the OP's and are not getting fed this as a feed ration...then its okay?


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## cmjust0 (Jul 30, 2009)

Your best bet is to never think of it as OK, simply because it's not labeled as feed for goats.  Same goes for the chickens with regard to goat feed..  Or horses, pigs, llamas, or any other animal with regard to feed that's not labeled for them.

Basically, just do your level best to keep everybody out of everybody else's feed and you'll avoid any issues that may or may not ever arise out of a 'mix and match' feeding environment.

For instance...I learned that I couldn't walk through the barn with a full chicken feeder without the goats crowding around me and to take swipes at it, nearly knocking it out of my hand.  It also prevented me from getting where I needed to go.  Those first few incidents didn't cause anybody any problems, but had they knocked 10lbs of it onto the floor and bolted it...who knows?  Choke came to mind right off the bat, since it's basically powder..

Either way, all that really mattered to me was that it wasn't goat feed, so I felt like it was prudent to take steps to prevent a potential risk to their safety and wellbeing.  That's a big part of my job as the herdsman, afterall...

I made a few tiny adjustments to my routine and it's not a problem anymore.


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## Virginia (Jul 31, 2009)

Hi guys,
Sorry that I am just getting back on here.  I ended up contacting a goat friend and had them come over and take a look at Allen (the goat).  She said she felt almost certain that he would be okay and that he probably didn't get enough to harm him.  He's running around and playing like normal.
Thanks for the advice!


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## cmjust0 (Jul 31, 2009)




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## username taken (Jul 31, 2009)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> username taken said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would hesitantly say its ok, and it just depends on how often the occasional snoot full is. With your feed you are only dealing with issue #3, the mineral vitamin imbalance. This WILL build up over time and you might find yourself with problems 3 - 4 years down the track. So, best to avoid it completely if you can. But not the end of the world if it is only very, very occasionally (and by that I mean once every few months).


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## Sundari (Aug 4, 2009)

I'm so happy to have a resource to learn about this! Here's my situation... I live in the city (Denver), and although I would love to have separate pens for my goats and chickens, I don't. I have one 19'x38' "barnyard" for the 7 hens and 2 Nigi goats.

The chickens have a small coop and enclosed run, which is where I keep their food. They have free access to their food in the morning and evening, and also midday when I let them into their run for lunch. Other than that they're running free in the barnyard (which they much prefer to being "cooped" up in the run). 

I've been scattering a small amount of scratch throughout the barnyard for them in the morning, so they have something to hunt for during the day (one of my goat breeders told me that scratch is ok for goats to have in small quantities - but by reading these posts, maybe not). Because the scratch is so spread out, the goats are just eating a little - one grain at a time.

However, I know that the scratch doesn't have all of the nutrients the hens need, and I really would prefer them to nibble on their food throughout the day - even if it's just a little. However, I've held off from scattering their food in the barnyard, because my other goat breeder is convinced that chicken food is toxic for goats.

My hens are eating Layena, which (according to the website, at least) doesn't have any animal protein and isn't medicated. I understand that the goat's main form of nutrition needs to be their hay and a little bit of Goat Chow, but would nibbling a few bits of Layena each day be a problem? And worth the tradeoff, since the chickens would have better access to their food throughout the day?


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## helmstead (Aug 4, 2009)

If it were me, I would devise a way for the chickens to access their coop/feed during the day.  Right before we finally moved the chickens to their own pen here, we had been having issues with our smallest kids figuring out the "chicken tunnel" and going in the chicken's stall to snack and then crawl into nesting boxes to sleep (also breaking eggs!).  I finally took a ladder, attached it to the outside of the barn, cut a hole in the barn wall about 5' up, then made a little catwalk for the chickens to the top of the roost from where they could either lay or go eat.  This worked fairly well until I was able to move the chickens to their own pen.  Some hens were really slow at figuring it out, but after a few times of 'walking them through it' they had it down pat.

I can't remember who said it, but I like it...treat each species specific feed as if it were poison to other species and you'll be on the right track (altho I do agree, a tiny amount of scratch isn't going to be horrible esp if it's a high quality scratch with less cracked corn in it).


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## Sundari (Aug 4, 2009)

Thanks, that's good advice. This morning I took a couple of old chick feeders and put them on top of the (4 foot tall) coop. I secured the feeders with twine so the hens can't knock them off and inadvertently feed the goats. So now the chickens can fly to the top of the coop anytime they'd like to get a snack, but the goats can't reach it. Hopefully it will work!


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## crazygoatlady (Aug 7, 2009)

I lost my first dairy 2 bucks to chicken feed--well it was barrels of screenings mixed with bagged chicken feed.   Too much much--too hot for their systems.  Saved the doe, was lucky that those were the only 3 that got into it.  Everything should be introduced gradually and too much can give a tummy ache like humans with lots of complications--sometimes it is the pain that kills them or they shut down.  Way tooo much gas and bloat can kill them.   If I knew then what I know now, you can insert a syringe in and let the gas out, but one needs to know how to do it.   Have a better chance of saving them.


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