# Severe diarrhea.



## taraann81 (Sep 13, 2009)

I went out to the barn this morning to do the morning chores, my 6 month old alpine doeling (up to date on shots and deworming)  Has severe liquid diarrhea.  She is not running a fever but is listless.

What shall I do?  

Besides put in a call to the vet(done, waiting to hear back)


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## ()relics (Sep 13, 2009)

I responded to this at BYC...does she show any signs of bloat?


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## trestlecreek (Sep 13, 2009)

Until the vet see's her, I run supportive care.
Probios, 2-3 times a day. Drench with Sav-a-caf electrolytes plus(for a 25lb goat, around 200cc, 3 times day), A Fortified B-Plex shot.
Take away ALL grain, I'd just let her eat hay.
Did she get into anything? Like a bag of feed, the chicken coop, etc...?
Where is she at on her cd/t shots?
Has she ever been checked for cocci?


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## freemotion (Sep 13, 2009)

How is she??


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## taraann81 (Sep 13, 2009)

Hanging in there.  I ended up taking her to the vet this morning.  At that point she had a temp of 103.  He thinks she has pneumonia( I didn't notice any symptoms).  He said with the stethoscope her lungs sound full of fluid.  He thought that maybe the diarrhea was brought on by the stress of the pneumonia and the fever.

He prescribed pepto 15-20mls every 2 hrs and 30 mls of electrolytes every hr.  He gave her an antibiotic injection and sent me home with enough for four more days of treatment.

Its seems so strange, I spend ALOT of time with my goats and I'm a nurse and I noticed no off symptoms until she was so sick today!  I hope she gets better I feel guilty that I should have noticed some warning signs.

But she was bouncey and had normal stools yesterday.  I have never seen an animal decline so fast.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 13, 2009)

Animals are very good at hiding symptoms until they are very sick. So don't feel bad. Even the most experienced person doesn't always see a problem until it is bad. Some animals are much more stoic than others.

I hope your goat gets better soon.


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## helmstead (Sep 13, 2009)

I tried...but I've got to ask.

Did the vet even do a fecal?

I've not personally heard of scours related to pneumonia.  There are several other causes for wet chest sounds - they often accompany other illnesses.  IMHO You WOULD have noticed something, being attentive, if pneumonia was setting in.

The only pneumonia with sudden onset I'm aware of is Interstitial Pneumonia - but once again I'm not feeling like this will present with scours.

Is the antibiotic a sulfa drug?  I would be worried about bacterial scours (e coli, etc), cocci...entero...

If she were here I'd have her on DiMethox treatment dose, give a couple doses of C/D antitoxin to be safe, administer Banamine for anti-inflamitory...ProBios daily and nix the pepto.

Really 103 isn't a fever for a goat.

I hate to question a vet's diagnosis, but I've been around enough vets who don't know goats to know I have to question them...


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## taraann81 (Sep 13, 2009)

Thats what I thought!  I didn't think 103 was that high for a goat.  The drug he prescribed is Excenel(Ithink thats the trade name).  It states the medical ingredient is Ceftiofur 50mg/ml.

This vet was reccomended to me HOWEVER they are the only vet around that will even see a goat.

He did not run a fecal(she pooped all over him when he took her temperature, so he had a specimen right there).

I am very worried.  She is very ill, nothing is open now so I am unable to get anything for her.  She is so lethargic, standing in the corner with her head hung low.  SHould I give her more electrolytes?  30mls an hr doesn't seem like much when you are losing so much fluid through diarrhea.


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## helmstead (Sep 13, 2009)

I wouldn't alter the electrolytes, OVER doing those can cause more problems than help.

You can give her some baking soda with the electrolyte drench...this might help her feel a bit better until you can do more.

That antibiotic would be the correct treatment for pneumonia, but not for bacterial scours or cocci...


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## taraann81 (Sep 13, 2009)

Should I mix it in the electrolytes she won't eat anything.  How do I get her to take the baking soda?


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## helmstead (Sep 13, 2009)

You can either mix it into the electrolytes or make a ball of it (thick paste) and forcefeed it to her.


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## taraann81 (Sep 13, 2009)

Well I gave her it in a paste and force fed it to her.  I made her walk up to the house(now I have a goat in the hall in a dog crate) its too hard to keep walking down to the barn to check on her constantly.  She seemed better after a bit of a walk but once shes down again she looks horrid.


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## miss_thenorth (Sep 13, 2009)

The vet was recommended by me.  He is our horse vet, and it's okay to question him.  when he was out at our place last year when I had goats, I asked if they did goats, and his answer was yes, but they mostly do cattle and horses.  He said they don't see alot of goats.  Sorry, Tara, I don't want to scare you, but they are the only livestock vet around that I know of.  (well, I was told of one other, but he wasn't recommended) I do know he  and Lottie are great with our horses.  I really hope Sweetpea pulls though this.  I;ll be keeping tabs for as long as I'm up tonight.

I am real hopeful, with all the knowledgeable people here, and with Dr Bernie, that she will pull through this ok.


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## taraann81 (Sep 13, 2009)

Of course it is okay to question him!!  I know that and I thank you for the reccomendation and like I said he is the only large animal vet around so I have no choice but to go there.  I for one don't expect anyone to know what everything is all the time.  I really do appreciate all your help and giving me his number.  He is doing the best he can with the knowledge he has about goats(its more than I have).  If she is still sick tomorrow I will call him and request a fecal sample.  I hope none of my posts sounded unappreciative.  It wasn't meant to sound that way.  I was pleased with his manner and I know he was trying to make her better.

I also wonder though that since coccidia is not specific to goats and many species of animals get their own types of coccidia, that I am sure he must be aware of it, right?  I am thinking that the lack of bloody stool may have tipped him off??!

I don't know but here I am with a goat in a dog crate in my house!


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## ksalvagno (Sep 13, 2009)

A goat with coccidia wouldn't have bloody stool. Probably once he heard the lungs and made the diagnosis of pneumonia, he wasn't even thinking about things like fecals. Even with experienced vets, I have found I have to ask questions and sometimes even demand to have things done. Another thing is large animal vets are sometimes used to doing the cheapest route of care and may not realize that you are willing to go the extra step and be willing to pay for extra tests.

At least the vet is willing to work with you even if he is not experienced with goats. That is half the battle sometimes. At least with coming here and getting some ideas, you can go back and ask him to run the tests.

I hope your goat does ok.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 13, 2009)

If this were my goat, I would keep up with the supportive's I talked about, continue with the anti-biotics he gave and I would ask him in the morning about cocci or a bacterial gastrointestinal infection.
A fecal wouldn't hurt.
Yes, the loose stools can happen as a secondary result to the pneumonia.... often times a drug like SMZ-TMP(oral) will also be given for that... I personally wouldn't give any more baking soda, I'd stick with probios, sav-a-caf and pepto as prescribed until the vet prescribes something else.....


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## ksalvagno (Sep 13, 2009)

There is a product out there called bio sponge. One place you can find it is http://www.platinumperformance.com/...productcategories/product.cfm?category_id=458 . If you know what is wrong with your goat, this product could help with the diarrhea. I don't know how it works for goats but it has been successful with alpacas which are also ruminants. The important thing is that you want to find out what is causing the diarrhea first.


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## miss_thenorth (Sep 13, 2009)

Helmstead said she hated to question the vet, that's why i said it.   You don't sound unappreciative--You sound really concerned and worried. and I am concerned too.  I just know that he doesn't see alot of goats.   My daughter told me  she would say a prayer for your goat tonight. 

I'll  be heading off soon, I hope there is good news tomorrow.!


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## kimmyh (Sep 13, 2009)

You might want to run a fresh sample of her poop in for a fecal tomorrow, and ask for worm/cocci/lung worm tests. Lung worm can sound just like pneumonia.


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## taraann81 (Sep 14, 2009)

Well I will still continue with the prescribed treatments and I will call the vet about the fecal.  But on a good note, she seems ever so slightly better today.  She is still lethargic and has diarrhea but she was fighting much stronger against me during the pepto administration.  Yesterday she basically laid there and let me do it.  Today she was turning away from me and pulling her head away.

She's not fighting against the electrolytes today, which she did yesterday.  I've been told that in people anyway the stuff doesn't taste good unless your dehydrated so perhaps now her body is telling her its good for her.

On a side note, she hasn't gone to the bathroom at all in the crate.  As soon as I took her outside this morning she went!! Are goats like dogs and try not to go in enclosed spots?


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## miss_thenorth (Sep 14, 2009)

I'm glad to hear progress!  Slow, but still....   Bet you had a rough night, eh.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 14, 2009)

Glad to hear that your goat seems to be a bit better. I would strongly suggest getting that fecal sample in and make sure they test it for cocci and lung worm along with the regular worms.


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## taraann81 (Sep 14, 2009)

Yeah it was a bit rough.  I'm tired today.  I only ended up getting up 3 times to check on her and give her electrolytes. But its worth it, even just to see a little progress.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 14, 2009)

There are just sooo many different things that can cause a goat to scour..  Several different bacterium like salmonella, e. coli, clostridium perfringens, etc...protozoans like coccidia and giardia...virii, dietary changes, noxious plants, ruminal acidosis, certain types of worms..the list goes on.

For something to come on so strongly and swiftly and be accompanied by anorexia and listlessness to the point of going from being a fighter to not even struggling against meds -- yet, no fever! -- seems really peculiar.  

Is the goat on browse/pasture, or is she strictly on hay and grain?


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## taraann81 (Sep 14, 2009)

She gets browse and what ever weeds and grass she wants to pick out of my lawn(no pesticides or fertilizers used for years here).  The browse she gets I cut branches and give to her, from safe trees on my property.  She gets alfalfa hay and a complete goat pellet, free choice loose minerals(for goats) and free choice baking soda.  She also of course always has access to fresh clean water.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 14, 2009)

Hmm...

Personally, I think it would be a little odd for a 6mo kid to present with coccidiosis or some other protozoan so acutely, after being perfectly healthy...  To have attained that age in good health, I would expect that the kid was already naturally vaccinated against protozoan infections through small, manageable challenges.  Not to mention....daily clean water, twice daily grain feedings (vs. 'free-feeding' grain, which can become soiled quickly)...  Doesn't really seem to fit the profile for protozoans, which are almost always connected to dirty living conditions.

It doesn't sound like she's ranging far and wide, either, possibly exposing herself to 'interesting' new plants..  The dietary situation actually sounds pretty routine.

This may sound like a silly question, but...what color is she scouring?  Is it black, yellowish, green...?


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## kimmyh (Sep 14, 2009)

Humm, I wonder if she has acidosis secondary to the pneumonia. Many goats die each year from eating baking soda, it tastes salty to them and they over do it, and give themselves acidosis. That sure would account for her unwillingness to eat. I would take away the baking soda (I used to leave it out too, until I was warned by my vet), and only use it for floppy kid.


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## Hoofprintgirl (Sep 14, 2009)

I agree, I would take a fecal sample in.  It actually sounds like cocci.   Probios would be great for her.  Look at her gums.  They should be a pretty bright pink color.  If they are a gray color, she is having a parasite overload.....probably cocci.  Do not let this go on for very long.  Keep the electrolyes coming also.


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## taraann81 (Sep 14, 2009)

She is doing much better tonight but I had a... bad evening.  She is now eating bits of hay and drinking on her own and her diarrhea is starting to slowly firm up.  Pudding consistency instead of water. (the color was brown, maybe a touch of yellowish instead of dark brown).

My bad evening, I went to my husband s baseball game for a relaxing break, they went into extra innings  it took longer than we thought it would and got home after dark around 915 here.  We went to lock the birds up...are missing a rock barr hen.....why don't we lose the extra roo??  Found a cat(very friendly) with a litter of 5 in my recycling box...still wet little babies...  AND found one of my turkeys appearing to have a broken leg...I can't even imagine what happend while we were gone...I guess I learn to process a turkey in the morning(this one too being one of the hens I plannned to keep....argh...When it rains it pours.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 14, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your hen and turkey. It is so frustrating when stuff like that happens. And yes, it is always the females that you want to keep that end up getting deathly sick or something happens to, not the pet boys that you can't even give away.

I bet it will be fun to watch the kittens though.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 15, 2009)

taraann81 said:
			
		

> She is doing much better tonight but I had a... bad evening.  She is now eating bits of hay and drinking on her own and her diarrhea is starting to slowly firm up.  Pudding consistency instead of water. (the color was brown, maybe a touch of yellowish instead of dark brown).


That's excellent news..  Given the color and how quickly it came on...and how it seems to be responding to antibiotics...I'm guessing it was a bacterial scour.  E. coli, maybe, or salmonella...something like that.

She'll be back to pellets in no time.  


Sorry to hear about your birds, btw..  When animals are a big part of your life, seems like it's _always_ something..


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## miss_thenorth (Sep 15, 2009)

taraann81 said:
			
		

> She is doing much better tonight but I had a... bad evening.  She is now eating bits of hay and drinking on her own and her diarrhea is starting to slowly firm up.  Pudding consistency instead of water. (the color was brown, maybe a touch of yellowish instead of dark brown).
> 
> My bad evening, I went to my husband s baseball game for a relaxing break, they went into extra innings  it took longer than we thought it would and got home after dark around 915 here.  We went to lock the birds up...are missing a rock barr hen.....why don't we lose the extra roo??  Found a cat(very friendly) with a litter of 5 in my recycling box...still wet little babies...  AND found one of my turkeys appearing to have a broken leg...I can't even imagine what happend while we were gone...I guess I learn to process a turkey in the morning(this one too being one of the hens I plannned to keep....argh...When it rains it pours.


If you need help processing--let me know--I've done chickens!

sorry to hear about your bad night, but glad sweetpea is getting better.   One of my BRs went missing for two nights but she's bck now,so yours might turn up.  And--more kittens?!?!?!??!!!


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