# Help--Goat laying down in the stanchion



## ChksontheRun (Sep 12, 2010)

We bought a herd of 7 goats from a woman whose husband recently died.  They were semi wild when we got them, and in 3 weeks have progressed very nicely.  We sold two--a doeling and a whether leaving us with 5-- One dry doe and her 9 month old doeling and buckling, and one doe in milk with her whether.

So on Friday, we finished our stanchion and started getting both does in it for feeding.  The Doe in milk is standing in it to eat her oats, and although she kicks a lot, has been milked 3 times with varying degrees of success.  But I do consider this huge since only 3 weeks ago they would not come near us.  The other dry doe has a bad habit that I want to break NOW.  When she gets in the stand to eat, which she does nicely.  She sits or lies down almost immediately.  She will not stand to handle her hoofs, or to even touch her belly.  Indeed, she sits even before being handled.  She cant even eat her oats because the food is too high for her to eat when she sits or lies down, but her head is almost being hung in the stanchion.  We really want her to learn to stand in it before she has to be milked in the spring.  Help!!!

So far, we have tried putting a pail under her--she lays right on top of it (ouch), lifting her back up by her rump, putting our foot in that space....   Any ideas?  We do have a hobble on order for the other kicking doe to see if that helps--would this help with lying down?


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## ksalvagno (Sep 12, 2010)

The hobble won't work for the lying down part. I would just continue to put the pail under her so she can't lay down. Another option would be to develop some type of belly sling but I'm not sure how that would work in a milk stanchion like it works in a chute.


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## freemotion (Sep 12, 2010)

You might make a sling out of a single strand of baling twine.  I'd think you'd need to make in uncomfortable enough that she gives up, but not dangerous or harmful to her.  

Goats sure are tough, and does nursing kids are impervious to pain it seems.....according to one of my does who lets her huge, horned doeling nurse and cut her teats with her teeth.  I had them weaned for a month, then my fence was shorted out by the stupid pigs and they got together for old times' sake.  Sheesh.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Sep 12, 2010)

great work on getting the milking done! 

to pass on some wildly useful - and spot on - advice i got early... be The Boss Goat. 

don't take any shenanigans from Miss Lay Down or Miss Kicks A Lot. my goaties know the meaning of a sharp "NO!"  

wonder if you could use a saw horse or something other than a pail (if that isnt working)?? can you pick her bottom up (is she big)? 

or have a helper hold her up? somewhere there is a thread called "kicky milker" and we talked about the oh-so-useful "Hubby Hobble"... maybe you can have someone hold her belly up if she tries to sit down? and then special treats when she is good?

and if she wont eat.. maybe you can make sure she is mighty hungry before you take her up there?


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## helmstead (Sep 12, 2010)

Been there!  Took a cinder block and lots of patience, but after a couple days, she gave it up...


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## ChksontheRun (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks so much for the encouragement and ideas.  I am happy to report that tonight was a good night   Miss Kicks a lot (Uhoh) was milked for 650 ml of milk with only 3 or 4 episodes of kicking, but with much less fear.  And Miss Lay Down (Amber) only layed down once but stood to eat her food all gone today.  We just focused on giving her lots of attention and making it a good experience since we don't need to milk her.  And on top of that--little Bridget our 9 month old doeling spent her first few minutes on the stand today and with only a little screaming, ended up standing to eat her food too.

A good night tonight.


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## freemotion (Sep 12, 2010)

"Will work for food!"  

Kate, that is a seriously funny picture!!!    (the only smilie that fits this situation...)


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## Jupiter (Sep 13, 2010)

I am so glad you asked! Cecily is bratty on the stanchion, and we fight to keep her on all 4's too. She kneels and keeps her butt in the air even ignoring the grain and BOSS. There's hope after all!


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## glenolam (Sep 13, 2010)

congratulations on the new herd and the progress!  I, too, have a kicky milker - the hobble worked great on her as the 'I AM THE BOSS GOAT' attitude.  For some hilarious reading, search "kicky milker" on this forum...

One question I had - you said you have a dry doe and her 9 mo old doeling and buckling....I assume this means the buckling is 9 mos old as well and living with the other does?  I ask because you may be asking for trouble leaving an intact buck who's of breeding age with your does.  Is this the case?  If so - you might want to consider putting him with the wether in a completely separate pen.

Good luck and HAVE FUN!!!


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## Ariel301 (Sep 13, 2010)

Since you have that tall solid wall behind the stand, you could try a sling around her belly to make it uncomfortable to lay down. Screw a metal tie ring into that, and use a lead rope or other rope that isn't going to break under pressure, loop it under her belly and attach to the ring so that you can get it loose again fast in an emergency. It should be snug but comfortable while she stands, but cause her a lot of discomfort if she tries to lay down. It might or might not work, I used it to break a doe I used to have who was both kicky and would start thrashing around on the stand when I touched her udder, she'd fall off the side of the stand and flip the whole thing over! 

I use a hobble for kicky milkers, or if I have an assistant handy, make the doe milk standing on three (or sometimes two!) legs until she gives up and learns to stand. My helper will hold up one hind leg pretty high so she can't use the other to kick. I had one doe who was still super strong and would kick with both hind feet like a horse, regardless of hobbling, so she would have to stand with one front leg up and one hind! It broke her in a few days, she realized it was easier to eat her food if she just stood still.


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## ChksontheRun (Sep 13, 2010)

When we got them 3 weeks ago, they had already been together for the last 9 months so we know we may have pregnant does.  We have the vet coming out next week to find out for sure.  the 9 month old doe is the only one we are totally concerned about.  We will get his opinion on the situation.   We currently don't have a way to separate them and figure another week really won't change much.   We hope to have a home for the buck by then, or he will be castrated by then.

When we got these goats, they had been fed well, but otherwise had been really neglected due to a very difficult personal situation on the part of their previous owner.   They would have nothing to do with people in general, and the adults hoofs are in pretty bad shape.  We have our work cut out, but it is a good learning experience and we really feel like we have given them a better life.


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## glenolam (Sep 13, 2010)

Good for you to give them a better life!  I'm glad to hear that you at least know what's going on and have a plan to fix it.

I got off the phone earlier with someone trying to sell a buck and a doe and she said the doe's possibly pregnant - just gave birth 5 months ago but the buck has been allowed to stay with her and the 2 doelings and that person didn't think there was anything wrong with it.  Actually sounded happy that she might be bred again.  I tried my hardest to sound pleasant, but I think she might have gotten my point when I said _"And you think it's OK to leave him with the doe and doelings?"_


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## ChksontheRun (Sep 13, 2010)

We are new to goats, but did do quite a bit of research before getting them.  We planned on getting goats next spring, but an add in a local paper advertised a herd of 7 being sold for a very good price due to her personal difficulty.  We thought it would be a good way for us to learn before we spend quite a bit more on  a few very good goats.  I am very glad we are doing this.  I feel good about giving them a good home as we really love our animals, and it is giving us a much better idea of how to care for these wonderful animals.  And, we are getting a little milk to make the whole deal even sweeter.

We are learning so much and loving every minute of it.  I just wish I did not have to work too as it would be so much more fun to stay home, play with goats, dogs, and chickens, and make yogurt, or cheese and quilt.  Alas, the hobbies do take some income to support


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## glenolam (Sep 13, 2010)

You're in the same dilemma as me, my friend!  The only thing I think about at work is what I could be doing at home instead!

Unfortunately, we make our own beds and for now I have to work so we can keep the life we're used to.  If I didn't work we'd have to give up things like the 2nd car and electricty (before the goats, cows and chickens, of course!).  Maybe some day.....


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## ChksontheRun (Sep 18, 2010)

OK, more frustration.  We had a relatively good few days, and now it seems that Ms. Kicks a lot found out that kicking didn't do her any favors so she decided to start the laying down thing.  So her name is Ms. Kicks a little AND Lays a lot.  We have made a sling with a tow webbing about 1 inch wide that we put around her when she starts to lay down during milking.  She looks so uncomfortable.  I dont want to hurt her but I do want to convince her that laying down is just not acceptable.    Please tell me this will not hurt her.  I have to believe that if it was causing her pain she would not do it.

On to a bit of success.....  We were able to get hoofs of the 3 girls trimmed a bit today.  It looks like they have not been trimmed for a long long time.  The older two goats have splayed hoofs so we have a lot to do to get them in better condition.  We will keep doing a little every few days till we get them down in better condition.  What does hoof rot look like?

I know they are glad we are out of their barn now.  I think it wore them out.....Not to mention me.


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## henrymilker (Sep 19, 2010)

I had a goat who would lay down at milking time. I was able to use a small stool that fit under her perfectly, if she laid down the stool would hold her up. It worked OK. What worked better was selling her.


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## ChksontheRun (Sep 19, 2010)

Exactly.  That is what I threatened her with tonight.  You should have seen us.  I had her folded up legs and back end on my knee while husband milked away.  No kicking, no butting, just orneryness!!!!    I wonder when she will get the message that we will not accept laying down.


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## glenolam (Sep 20, 2010)

Just keep at it!  As frustrating as it is, you can either get rid of her or just keep trying and hope that eventually she'll get it.


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