# How much space



## Onyx (Jan 22, 2016)

Hi everyone, I keep reading that a Nigerian Dwarf goat needs at least 130 sq feet of room outdoors.  But, I am not finding anything that says how you calculate the space needed if you have more than one.  If I have two goats in one pen, do I double the pen size and make it 260 square feet?  Or do you go by a 130 square foot starting point and then add x number of square feet per additional goat?

(actually I keep seeing either 130 sq feet or 30 sq feet.  The 30 sq feet has got to be a mistake though right?  That's barely room for a goat to move).


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 23, 2016)

Most folks I know pretty well spoil their goats (including me) so that is not a good guide.  The rule or 30-50 feet per goat is, as I understand it, for indoor space to get out of the elements and eat.  Outside, the same space is needed.  That is a bare minimum.  

Personally, I give them as much as I can.  Let them have plenty of indoor space and outdoor.


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## Onyx (Jan 23, 2016)

My question is because I have little space, so I need to calculate minimum requirements to keep the goats happy and healthy.  I have seen "large dog house" suggested many times as a good "shed" option for miniature goats, which would of course be much smaller than 30 sq feet.  So I am confused still (not that I was planning to use a dog house in any case).  But you think that 50 square feet is adequate outdoor quarters per goat?


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## frustratedearthmother (Jan 23, 2016)

Fifty square feet would be something roughly 10 x 5....for visual reference a sheet of plywood is 4 x 8.  Not a whole lot of difference.   Just my opinion, but I don't believe that's  adequate space for permanent living quarters for even a small goat.  If that's the space you will allocate to indoor living quarters it would be fine, but they sure would appreciate a lot more outside space.


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## Onyx (Jan 23, 2016)

@frustratedearthmother OK but what would be your recommendations for space then?  I am getting a lot of "that's not enough" and "that's too much" advice on the various places I've posted but very little "x is the minimum to keep a goat in good health". ^^  I need to make firm plans for building my pens this spring so I can calculate costs and make a property map, etc.


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## Mini Horses (Jan 23, 2016)

Goats love to run and play.  They can be tied out but, carefully to prevent tangling & injury from that or other animals (dogs, etc)
& should be temporary with some one able to intervene if they get into trouble.

Are you able to let them out into a yard part of the time and use a smaller area for safe enclosure?   Much as you might with a dog who is penned while you are gone but able to roam the yard when you are home.

Since you don't explain your limitations and reasons, it's hard to offer solid suggestions.   They will appreciate all the room you can give them.  I would consider 10X30 sufficient for 2 pygmies plus a shelter to sleep & get into for poor weather.   Rectangular offers more room to run than a square, which forces circles.   Nigies would need more, say 15X30.

They will soon make this area into a dirt lot, so plan on sufficient hay.  And what do you plan to do with them?  That also makes lot size differences.


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## animalmom (Jan 23, 2016)

Coming up with an area figure is difficult, as you know, for a lot of reasons:

1) the smaller the area the more often you will have to rake it to keep it clean, ergo larger area.
2) the smaller the area the more careful you need to be as to where it is located... keep in mind the seasonal sun changes so that your goat pen has sufficient sunshine, when the sun is shining, in the winter and sufficient shade in the winter... and consider when it rains how the water runs off as in will it run off right into your goat area.  Goats do not like getting wet or dealing with mud.
3) will the outdoor area be connected to the indoor area so the goats can go back and forth on their own, or is the indoor area only a place where you put them up at night?  They, the goats, need to be able to put themselves indoors in case of rain, high winds, falling leaves, loud bird singing .. in other words when they want.
4) you ever share a room with a sibling and found that your only desire was to never see that sibling again... at least for the day?  Goats like being together and also like to not have to be together so closely.
5) What you are talking about doing is called "dry lot" and it is doable, but it means that you have to bring in to the goats all their feed, hay, water, browse.  They are not going to find much to eat in a dry lot that is not provided by you.

I dry lot, and I have the available space to make my pens as large as I could.  For instance, one of my pens is 24' x 48' and currently has a population of 5 goats.  In this area is a large Live Oak tree and two cabanas (4' x 8' and 4' x 4').  The cabanas are the goats indoor out of the rain area.  The tree gives shade in the summer and the winter sun still has plenty of area.  This works well for me as it is large enough that I'm not raking on a daily basis, and the most important point is the goats are happy and thriving.

Look hard and long at the space available, what other uses you want to make of the area and go from there.  The best advise I can give you is give the goats as much room as you can, they will appreciate it and you will to.  Taint much more heart healing than seeing kids jumping around.

Good luck with your plans, please keep us posted.  We would like to help with any questions you have.


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## Onyx (Jan 23, 2016)

@animalmom @Mini Horses Maybe I should give a bit more information.  The goats are for dairy.  I will have two separate areas.  For the does I'm not worried, because the front area will have plenty of room for two does.  The enclosure I am trying to finagle into the back area is for a buck and a wether companion.  I am not expecting them to browse, they will be fed on hay and microgreen fodder plus garden goodies.  Whatever the size of the pen I build, it will have at least an 8x8 covered outdoor area plus at least a 4x8 sleeping shed.  They will be confined to this area + uncovered pen area because I don't really have anywhere else I can let a smelly buck roam, lol.  These areas will be connected, they will be able to go in and out at will.  So basically what I am trying to find out is, not including the sleeping shed, but including the 8x8 covered area, what is the minimum size of pen I can construct to keep a buck and wether healthy (I will likely be able to give them more than bare minimum but I need to know what the minimum is, if that makes sense).  I realize I will have to do more cleaning in a smaller area, that's not an issue.  I will also include some environmental enrichments, like toys and things to climb on.  I will pitch the roof of the covered outdoor area so the rain does not run into the pen.

I cannot just borrow someone else's buck, which others have suggested.  For one thing I do not want to rely on someone else to breed my does when I need them bred, I don't want to expose my does to outside animals with possible disease, and lastly, there are no other Nigerian dwarfs here that I can find.  I'll have to get mine from many hours away.


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## frustratedearthmother (Jan 23, 2016)

When I raised pygmies intensely for show.... most were kept in pens as opposed to now when they have several acres. My pens were made from stock panels.  Stock panels are 16 ft long.  My smallest pen was one panel wide by two panels deep - 16' x 32'.  Put some 'toys' in to give them something to jump and play on and they should do ok.   Hope you get it worked out!


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## animalmom (Jan 23, 2016)

I too have Nigerian Dwarfs, and I own my bucks for the same reasons you listed.  Bucks get a bad rap over their extensive use of cologne during rut.  My little guys only go into the fragrant state during fall and winter.  Yes they can breed year around, but the don't anoint themselves year around.

Nevertheless the boys are at the back of the compound.  

Since you have just one buck and his buddy, your starting point of the 8x8 covered area and 4x8 sleeping area (which honestly they probably won't sleep in unless it is raining) give you 96 square feet, and your question being how much more space would they need... yeah sometimes I tend to state the obvious, anyway, so figuring on 130 square feet for one, and say another 70 for the second plus you 96 = 296 square feet.

Now, beat that against the shape of your area, mark it off and stare at it.  Does it look reasonable to you, not me, but to you?  If you think your buck and his buddy would be happy there then go for it.  

Lord love a duck, they are your animals, it is your backyard and money, and it truly sounds like your intentions are for the best you can give your animals.  Heck, my rabbits are 30"x24" cages... lots of discussion can be had over is that enough space.  Would the rabbits like more space?  Sure, wouldn't you like to have a larger house.  Is it practical... probably not.

Onyx we all do what we can for our animals.  Some can do more, some do less.  What is more important is how you take care of them.  If your boys are getting rowdy with the fenceline then look to see if they need new toys, or if the girls are flirting with them.  They should normally be happy campers with toys, food, and your attention.

Good luck, keep us posted, and pictures once your are all settled would be lovely, please and thank you.


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## Onyx (Jan 23, 2016)

Heh heh I know what you mean @animalmom.  I too have rabbits and while they are in temporary quarters at the moment, when I build the permanent cages this spring they will be 24 x 36 for my hollands and other dwarf breeds and 24 x 48 for my NZs that will be coming.  Which is larger than most people would use.  I just don't want to end up with not enough room and stressed out goats who start acting neurotic because I am crowding them D:  I have a bunch of books on dairy goats and Nigerian Dwarfs and I would usually just look up the info but when I get such vastly contrasting info as 30 sq feet and 130 sq feet I figure I had better ask people with actual goat experience, ha ha!


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## Latestarter (Jan 23, 2016)

How much space (maximum) do you have available for them? Whatever that amount, that's what you should use. If that is 1/2 an acre then there ya go. If you don't have that amount available, then it will have to be less. 

The determining factor isn't "how big" should the space be... It should be what's the smallest I can actually go with the space available to be used, and still have happy healthy animals.  Since you've stated it will be dry lot and strict confinement, I would try to give them as much space as I could reasonably. If you're figuring 130 sqft, then times 2 = 260 sqft.  So if I could do an enclosure 10' x 26', that should be sufficient as a minimum. Were it me? I'd prob go 16' x 32' as I could then use 8' spacing for fence posts or fence panels. 

Good luck with whatever you choose, and pls post some pics when done! Thanks.


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## SheepGirl (Jan 23, 2016)

This is from Midwestern Plan Service, Sheep Housing and Equipment Handbook, 1982...yes, this is for sheep, but can be applied to goats as well.


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