# Please help! Ewe is driving me crazy!



## Hufflesheep (Mar 11, 2020)

I feel like I'm going crazy!

I have a lamb thats a couple days old. He seems to be well bonded with his mother, she is very protective of him. However i don't think he's getting enough nutrition. Ive yet to see him voluntarily suckle his mother and I do frequent barn checks. The front of his mouth is often cold. His rectal temperature is fine, earlier today it was 101.7 . On occasion i see him relatively fiesty but i often find him just standing there. 
So far I've tried the following:
-Bumped her nutrition: molasses in water, endless supply of hay, extra grain.
-Checked her milk on several occassions, which is no easy task since she is fiesty. Everything looks good.
-checked his teeth. No shark teeth, but he has some bumps 
- ive restrained her and showed him the teat at least three times. To do this i extract a bit of milk, rub it on the teat, take his little lamb lips and place them on the udder whilst trying to grapple with her!
- i try nudging him in the direction of the teat and she backs away.
- ive had my neighbor who is a dairy farmer check her udder for engorgement and mastitis. No signs of anything. 
Tonight he drank 3 ozs of lamb formula! Which by the way I do not do often, just the last couple nights just so i can get some sleep without having to worry. 
Her jug neighbor and her lamb are doing great! 
what 🤬 am i doing wrong?! 
Can i continue supplementing with formula?


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 12, 2020)

Is she in a small pen (lambing jug) with her baby? If not, I’d lock them up together so that you can keep a close eye on them. 

Does his belly seem round and full? Pooping? Peeing?

At this point, I’d just keep an eye on the lamb. If his temperature stays where it’s supposed to be and he seems alert and moves around without being hunched or lethargic, then he *should* be ok. He might be a shy nurser. 

I had one of those this year. She’s tiny and skinny and after her initial feeding after birth, I never really saw her nursing. I was getting worried, but she was always warm and pretty active so I just watched. I finally caught her nursing and she was out running races with the older lambs yesterday.


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 12, 2020)

I wouldn’t give him replacer again unless he seems like he’s really weak.


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 12, 2020)

purplequeenvt said:


> I wouldn’t give him replacer again unless he seems like he’s really weak.



Thanks! They are jugged. It's so hard to tell if he's ok or not. He's usually sleeping or he's just sort of standing there. I feel for a little "balloon" and he does have a bit of one. The interal temp was good again this morning (102.1) but the front of his mouth and nose are ice cold. He was born on Monday. Shouldn't he be jumping around by now?


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## Jesusfreak101 (Mar 12, 2020)

Personally no experience  with sheep but i have goats and they do start moving more early on. I had one that didn't and he end up being blind and having to be put down because he wasn't gaining weight. I would be very concerned. I would be inclined to pull him and watch her udder after one night and watch how he does on the bottle. And if he doing better i would keep him on it. And if she has be come uncomfortable then you know other wise you can atleast know what's going on some what.


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 12, 2020)

Jesusfreak101 said:


> Personally no experience  with sheep but i have goats and they do start moving more early on. I had one that didn't and he end up being blind and having to be put down because he wasn't gaining weight. I would be very concerned. I would be inclined to pull him and watch her udder after one night and watch how he does on the bottle. And if he doing better i would keep him on it. And if she has be come uncomfortable then you know other wise you can atleast know what's going on some what.



Thank you! Ill watch him closely today and consider your advice.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 12, 2020)

If he was not eating, his belly would be empty and his sides would pinch together.  If they feel full and round he is eating.  It sounds more like he is cold and it is causing him to feel weak.  Some lambs are more susceptible to cold than others.   Cold weakens them.  He hasn't got the strength to eat enough to keep his body heat up.  Putting him on a bottle will not help his body temperature, and will cut down on the mother's milk.  He needs to get warmed up and nurse.  There are 2 things you can try to get his body heat up. 

1.    The quickest way is to put up a heat lamp over his jug.  Put it in a corner up high where the ewe can't knock it down and keep the cord away from the pen.  We run an extension cord over the rafters in our barn and drop the plug down to the heat lamp.  We use a standard shop light with a reflective metal cover and just a 100 watt bulb but since you are in New Hampshire and the temp is very low I would start with a standard heat lamb bulb.  The hardware store should have one.  Otherwise, use a regular spot light bulb.  if he is very small, you can make a lamb coat out of a large man's sock, cutting leg holes and slitting the toe part to allow him to pee freely.
or 
2.     Put the other ewe and her lamb in with the lamb and his mother.  With twins they cuddle up next to each other and keep warm.  Singles will cuddle up to mama, but have a harder time keeping warm when the ewe is standing up eating, etc.  The 2 lambs will cuddle together and may keep each other warmer. 

Actually, I would do the heat lamp and then combine the 2 ewes and their lambs as well.  Hopefully that will work.


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 12, 2020)

Jesusfreak101 said:


> Personally no experience  with sheep but i have goats and they do start moving more early on. I had one that didn't and he end up being blind and having to be put down because he wasn't gaining weight. I would be very concerned. I would be inclined to pull him and watch her udder after one night and watch how he does on the bottle. And if he doing better i would keep him on it. And if she has be come uncomfortable then you know other wise you can atleast know what's going on some what.



I don't think he's blind. He has come up to me and tried suckling my shirt.


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 12, 2020)

OMG HELP!!

I went to check on them again. He was sleeping. I tried to stand him on his feet to check him over, feel his tummy again. And he slump back down, couldnt stay on his feet. I ran to the house and prepared a bottle. He slurped down 4 ozs and collapsed back down again. I tan him to the house and checked his temp. 103.5


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 12, 2020)

Hufflesheep said:


> OMG HELP!!
> 
> I went to check on them again. He was sleeping. I tried to stand him on his feet to check him over, feel his tummy again. And he slump back down, couldnt stay on his feet. I ran to the house and prepared a bottle. He slurped down 4 ozs and collapsed back down again. I tan him to the house and checked his temp. 103.5



He is staying with me at the house until i csn get this all sorted. His breathing seems rapid.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 12, 2020)

That is high.  Keep him warm.  How is his breathing?


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## Ridgetop (Mar 12, 2020)

Do you have any Selenium paste?


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## Ridgetop (Mar 12, 2020)

He might have pneumonia.  Sheep and goats are very susceptible to pneumonia.  I am not sure what the dose of antibiotics would be for a lamb that young.


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 12, 2020)

Breathing is fast. Eyes are bloodshot. I just called the vet hotline 😩


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 12, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> Do you have any Selenium paste?


 Not on me. You think that's it? Mom was hit with a selenium shot the day before birth. I gave him a probiotic paste when i checked the temp he looked constipated


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## Ridgetop (Mar 12, 2020)

If mom had selenium before birth, level s probably ok.  Selenium deficiency causes weak lambs and kids, but not fever and trouble breathing.  

Sounds more like pneumonia.  He may have gotten some birth fluid in his lungs.  Hopefully vet can give you antibiotics.  How far away is the vet's office?  Suggest you put him in the car and drive him there if they are open.  use a dog crate if necessary.


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 12, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> If mom had selenium before birth, level s probably ok.  Selenium deficiency causes weak lambs and kids, but not fever and trouble breathing.
> 
> Sounds more like pneumonia.  He may have gotten some birth fluid in his lungs.  Hopefully vet can give you antibiotics.  How far away is the vet's office?  Suggest you put him in the car and drive him there if they are open.  use a dog crate if necessary.



He just called back. Im headed there now! Thanks so much for your response!! <3


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 12, 2020)

Temperature + rapid breathing + lethargy does point towards pneumonia. Hopefully the vet can sort him out!


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 12, 2020)

Ok update! Just got back. Vet didnt believe it to be pneumonia, although like you guys he was certain based on my description it was. He believes it to be selenium. temperature dropped by the time i arrived to the office and his lungs sounded good. He thought it perhaps unlikely the fetal lamb was able to absorb it within such a short time frame. He gave him selenium, fever reducer, long lasting antibiotics and fluids In case it wasn't selenium. Anyways! Little guy is quite tuckered out now! 

I cant thank you guys enough for the support! I hope I'll return it back someday! 💙


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## Ridgetop (Mar 12, 2020)

Hope to hear that he is totally recovered by tomorrow.  If it is selenium he should pick up quick after getting a dose.   Next time give the selenium about a month before lambing.    

Darn lambs thrive on giving us a heart attack!  He is probably collecting his bet off the next door lamb saying "See I told you I could trick her into giving me a car ride!"


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 13, 2020)

UPDATE:

Fever is still normal but he is still weak and now not eating much. I don't know what to do except keep him warm in the house and try to give him bottles.
😩


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## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 13, 2020)

Last year my one ewe had triplets, and by the end of the day it was clear one wasn’t doing as well as her sisters.  I gave her to a friend and she had to live in a box by the stove for two days being tube fed before she recovered sufficiently to go outside and suck from a bottle.  So there’s hope, but how are you at tube feeding?  Nutrition is important, and if he’s too weak to suck effectively tube feeding is a must.


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 13, 2020)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Last year my one ewe had triplets, and by the end of the day it was clear one wasn’t doing as well as her sisters.  I gave her to a friend and she had to live in a box by the stove for two days being tube fed before she recovered sufficiently to go outside and suck from a bottle.  So there’s hope, but how are you at tube feeding?  Nutrition is important, and if he’s too weak to suck effectively tube feeding is a must.



Haven't tried it yet, but i may have to. This morning he was on his feet and drank a couple ozs. I noticed  he was constipated and stupidly gave him probiotics then i remembered he was on antibiotics.


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 13, 2020)

If he's too weak to suckle properly, tubing may be necessary (and this is coming from someone who HATES to tube lambs).

Did the vet check your lambs heart? White Muscle Disease (selenium deficiency) can weaken the heart muscle and causes the lamb to slowly fade away. Unfortunately, if that is the case, there's not much hope.

New England is a selenium deficient area. Our old protocol was to give lambs 1/4-1/2ml of BoSe at birth, but when we changed things up and started giving BoSe to our ewes prior to breeding, our percentage of multiple births went up. We never got a majority of single births, but once making sure the ewes were adequately supplemented, we started having a lot fewer singles and more twins and triplets. We even had a set of quads.

I'd recommend getting one of these products from Premier to help supplement your ewes year round.
https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/selenium-iodine-premix-vitamin-e-booster?cat_id=263
https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/selenium-iodine-premix?cat_id=263


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 13, 2020)

purplequeenvt said:


> If he's too weak to suckle properly, tubing may be necessary (and this is coming from someone who HATES to tube lambs).
> 
> Did the vet check your lambs heart? White Muscle Disease (selenium deficiency) can weaken the heart muscle and causes the lamb to slowly fade away. Unfortunately, if that is the case, there's not much hope.
> 
> ...





purplequeenvt said:


> If he's too weak to suckle properly, tubing may be necessary (and this is coming from someone who HATES to tube lambs).
> 
> Did the vet check your lambs heart? White Muscle Disease (selenium deficiency) can weaken the heart muscle and causes the lamb to slowly fade away. Unfortunately, if that is the case, there's not much hope.
> 
> ...



I called the doc and left a message for next steps but I think you may be right i found this in sheepandgoat.com 

"When the disease affects the heart, the animal shows signs similar to pneumonia, including difficult breathing, a frothy nasal discharge (may be blood stained), and fever. The heart and respiratory rates are elevated and often irregular. Skeletal and cardiac muscle disease may occur concurrently."

The doc gave me extra bo-se shots for the next lambs due soon. 😭 i feel so useless. This has been hell


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 14, 2020)

The little guy died. 😣
While I'm not entirely sure from what, i suspect selenium deficiency to at least be an aggravating factor. Both of the first two ewes gave birth to slow, weak lambs. 

**For those first timers who fall into this thread by happenstance in their pursuit of research, take heed. Even for those with primitive hardy breeds (such as mine) may be lacking in essential nutrients. 

So the next two ewes have been given shots of bo-se on March 8th and i have extra shots of bo-se for newborn lambs. I was instructed to administer it directly after birth. Hopefully there's no risk of 'over-doing it'(?)
In the future I know some of you have reccomended the paste. Do any of you use mineral blocks? 

Again, my sincerest gratitude for helping me through this.


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## Baymule (Mar 14, 2020)

I am sorry that you lost the lamb, unfortunately that is part of farm life. We do our best, we ask for help, we get lots of kind advice, but sometimes it is not to be. We grieve, learn and move on because life doesn't wait for anyone and more lambs are on the way. Posting our ups and downs is for everyone to learn. It is good that you posted this. 

No on the mineral blocks. Sheep have no upper teeth, gnawing on a block is not good for their teeth. Get the loose minerals for sheep, I get Dumor at Tractor Supply and mine like it and do well on it. I also offer them Azomite, a rock dust from an ancient lave flow out of Utah. I observed my new born lambs eating fresh dirt kicked up by gophers one time and offered the Azomite, they ate it like candy. So they get both. I also offer Dolomite lime, I get it in the garden part of Lowes. It is helpful for pregnant and nursing ewes. I got trays with 2 compartments that hook over a 2x4 from Tractor supply.


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 14, 2020)

Baymule said:


> I am sorry that you lost the lamb, unfortunately that is part of farm life. We do our best, we ask for help, we get lots of kind advice, but sometimes it is not to be. We grieve, learn and move on because life doesn't wait for anyone and more lambs are on the way. Posting our ups and downs is for everyone to learn. It is good that you posted this.
> 
> No on the mineral blocks. Sheep have no upper teeth, gnawing on a block is not good for their teeth. Get the loose minerals for sheep, I get Dumor at Tractor Supply and mine like it and do well on it. I also offer them Azomite, a rock dust from an ancient lave flow out of Utah. I observed my new born lambs eating fresh dirt kicked up by gophers one time and offered the Azomite, they ate it like candy. So they get both. I also offer Dolomite lime, I get it in the garden part of Lowes. It is helpful for pregnant and nursing ewes. I got trays with 2 compartments that hook over a 2x4 from Tractor supply.



Awesome! Thanks!


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## Baymule (Mar 14, 2020)

Buuy Pat Colby's book Natural Sheep Care. I don't use her mineral mix, I prefer to buy the Dumor and offer additional minerals, but it is a good read and lots of information.





__





						Amazon.com: Natural Sheep Care: 9780911311907: Pat Coleby: Books
					

Amazon.com: Natural Sheep Care: 9780911311907: Pat Coleby: Books



					www.amazon.com


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 14, 2020)

Baymule said:


> Buuy Pat Colby's book Natural Sheep Care. I don't use her mineral mix, I prefer to buy the Dumor and offer additional minerals, but it is a good read and lots of information.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! Just clicked and bought it!


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## Ridgetop (Mar 14, 2020)

So sorry that he didn't make it.  

No matter what happens, this is a learning experience.  All experience is good experience whether it is a pleasant one or not.  Next time it happens, if it does, you will remember this, recognize the symptoms, and be on top of it immediately.  And you will be able to give Bo-Se to your next set of lambs.  You might want to give a booster to the first lamb even though he has not shown any problems.

Remember to Bo-Se the ewes a month before lambing next season.  Minerals are a great addition to their diet but a shot of Bo-Se if you know you are in a Selenium poor area, with Selenium poor pasture or hay, guarantees that the pregnant ewes get what they need for lambing.  Lack of Selenium can cause lambing problems in addition to weak lambs.

Good luck with the other lambs.


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## Hufflesheep (Mar 14, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> So sorry that he didn't make it.
> 
> No matter what happens, this is a learning experience.  All experience is good experience whether it is a pleasant one or not.  Next time it happens, if it does, you will remember this, recognize the symptoms, and be on top of it immediately.  And you will be able to give Bo-Se to your next set of lambs.  You might want to give a booster to the first lamb even though he has not shown any problems.
> 
> ...



Thank you! 💙
You corroborated my vets advice as well, which makes me feel very optimistic my future will be brighter (at least in terms of selenium issues  )


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