# My doe is in trouble..update on pg 2..pic on pg 3



## dhansen (Mar 27, 2012)

My doe is very pregnant...due 4/2.  She is distancing herself from the herd, won't eat much, lays around a lot, and  is wobbly.  Her temp. is normal, gums and eyelids look fine, was wormed in the last month, and babies are still kicking.  I am thinking possibly toxemia??????  I started her on antibiotics last night and have been trying to get her to eat grain, but she won't eat much.  She is pooping and peeing.  I have NO idea where to find Propylene Glycol as I have tried all the local feed stores and farm supplies.  Any suggestions?


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 27, 2012)

Propalene  glycol is pretty commonly sold in feed stores, not sure why yours isn't carrying it, you can order it. 

Here is my saved information on treating toxemia, I like the TKM solution the best, but I often use the Magic Solution. You can use some or all of these things in any combination. But there are lots of great ideas in this article. and I believe any of the items are sold over the counter at most feed stores or a  large animal vet office.

I would also consider a parasite load, and having a fecal done on your goat. 

PREGNANCY CARE & CONCERNS 
________________________________________

Pregnancy Toxemia and ketosis
By Robin Walters
Oct 28, 2002, 10:07am	Email this article
 Printer friendly page

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/2178/toxemia.html 
Robin Walters

Pregnancy toxemia and ketosis are the result of the high carbohydrate 
(energy) demand of multiple fetuses in late pregnancy. The kids require an 
increasing amount of carbohydrates the last trimester. Does bearing twins 
have a 180% higher energy requirement than those with just a single fetus. 
Does carrying triplets have a 240% greater energy requirement. When this 
demand exceeds the supply, fat is metabolized into glucose. The metabolic 
needs of the kids are met at the expense of the dam; this is what causes the 
ketotic condition. To complicate matters, multiple fetuses produce more 
waste products, which leads to the doe becoming toxic if she does not flush 
them from her system. 

Risk Factors for Pregnancy Toxemia 
Multiple fetuses 
Poor quality of ingested energy 
Dietary energy level 
Environment 
Genetic factors 
Obesity 
Lack of good body condition or high parasite load 
Confinement - lack of exercise 

Toxemia and ketosis are typically seen in does that are overweight and get 
little exercise. Under weight animals that are fed a poor quality feed are 
also candidates for toxemia. Look for does at the bottom and top of the 
pecking order. These does may be getting to much or not enough feed. Does 
should be in good body condition, and not overly fat when bred. They can be 
maintained on good roughage or forage during the first 100 days of 
pregnancy. During the last trimester the doe should gain approximately 1/2 
lb. per day. The doe must intake enough carbohydrates to supply the demand 
of the growing fetuses and to keep her alive and functioning also. 

I also believe that you see an increase in toxemia during extended drought 
or rainy conditions. Severe weather conditions cause the quality of the feed 
change, limits and changes the available browse, and the animals do not 
receive the vitamins and minerals that they get naturally from high quality 
feeds and browse. Extremely wet conditions, especially if following a 
prolonged drought can also cause a dramatic and quick increase in the worm 
load, and cause the doe to drop enough body condition to become a candidate 
for toxemia. 

When there is a decrease of glucose levels in the doe's brain, they tend to 
lie down, become sluggish, and show a loss of appetite. They may get stiff, 
and walk with a staggering gait. Swelling (edema) of the lower limbs is not 
uncommon. Some does may also grind their teeth. Keto-acidosis is also common 
during toxemia and needs to be treated daily. As the disease progresses, the 
neurological systems become compromised due to lack of glucose. Blindness, 
stargazing, tremors, aimless walking, ataxia (uncoordinated staggering 
gait), are seen and eventually the doe becomes comatose. At this stage the 
fetuses succumb and release toxins that send the doe into endotoxic shock, 
and death. Does that survive toxemia need to be watched for dystocia, and 
lactational ketosis. 

Diet should include high quality roughage and increased concentrates. At 
first sign of decreased appetite, or unwillingness to rise, managers need to 
be wary. Exercise should be offered and forced if necessary. Some type of 
high-energy supplement needs to be given to keep the doe from coming 
ketotic. The carbohydrate (energy) level of the diet needs to be increased. 
This can be accomplished by adding corn, fresh alfalfa hay, or a soybean 
supplement to the diet. Increasing the protein does not necessarily increase 
the energy level. 

High Energy Supplements 
Propylene Glycol 
Nutri-drench 
Dextrose 
TKM Solution 
Magic (1 part Molasses, 2 parts Kayro, 1 part Corn Oil) 
Glucose IV 
If the kids are within 7 days of due date, and the doe does not respond 
immediately to treatment, giving 20-25mg dexamethasone can induce labor. 
Labor will begin within 48 hours. Dexamethasone is preferred over hormonal 
induction of parturition because of its beneficial stimulus to appetite. 
Also, dexamethasone may also prepare the lungs of marginally immature kids 
increasing their chances of survival during labor or cesarean. Valuable does 
that fail to respond within 24 hours should have a cesarean immediately. 
Even with surgery and fluids, prognosis is poor for the survival of both the 
doe and kids. If valuable does don't respond to treatment early termination 
of the pregnancy should be considered. 

The key to treating toxemia is catching the subtle symptoms promptly. Fist 
concern is to hydrate the doe and get enough sugars to the brain to get if 
functioning properly. We have been successful treating does with the 
following mixture: 

TKM Solution 
3- 500ml bottles Dextrose 
3- 500ml bottles of Amino Acid Solution (not concentrate) 
1 - 500ml bottle Calcium Glutenate 23% 
(This can be mixed up ahead of time & stored in a cool dry place) 
The goat also needs to receive the following - they need to be added when 
you get ready to administer the dose: 
Fortified B Complex - 5ml daily 
Thiamine - daily 
Vitamin C & E Supplements - daily 
Probiotics - I give a double calf dose every time I treat. If this doesn't 
stimulate their appetite, add 1 teaspoon of baking soda daily (add after you 
have mixed everything together!) 
I prefer the Loveland Industries Calf Pak for probiotics. When choosing 
probiotics make sure you purchase one that contains viable (live) 
probiotics. Be careful in handling probiotics; don't leave out in extreme 
heat or cold. The refrigerator is a good place to store them. For the 
Vitamins I have had a lot of success using Capra Products Capra-Tech 100 to 
provide the C & E, and the Capra Cool for the thiamin & additional 
probiotics. This seems like a remarkable amount of probiotics, but you are 
fighting a metabolic disorder that is on going. You will not cure it, but 
you can add support to enable the doe to live through pregnancy and 
hopefully deliver live kids. We give 20-60cc magic twice daily at first 
signs of toxemia. If the doe is completely off feed or becoming lethargic we 
give a loading dose of 4-8oz. of the TK Solution. It is then repeated every 
hour (2-4oz.) until the doe is standing, drinking, and urinating. We have 
also found it helpful to give an equal amount of water (drench if necessary) 
at every treatment. Once these does quit moving, they don't get up and 
drink, as they should. 

Be cautious given electrolytes or products that are high in sodium or 
potassium. Although in a pinch they will work to hydrate the animal, you 
don't want to give long term anything that has a lot of potassium in it. 
That is why we use the dextrose instead of oral electrolytes. You need to 
make sure that the doe urinates, giving a mild diuretic such as cranberry 
juice may also be helpful. The does need to flush the toxins from their 
system. 

When the doe starts to respond we start decreasing the treatment intervals. 
Treatment is dropped to 3-4 times a day, and if the doe is back on her feed 
and eating well, we just give the magic mixture two to three times daily. We 
have treated does successfully with 100-500ml of the TKM solution given 
daily. Amount needed varies with each individual doe. The doe may scour the 
first couple of days & Pepto-Bismol or Kaopectate can be given to relieve 
the dietary scours. Don't be terribly concerned if the doe scours it is 
caused by the drastic dietary changes and will clear up as the doe continues 
to eat. 

Propylene glycol can be given orally at the rate of 4 ounces, 4 times daily. 
Nutri-drench can be substituted for propylene glycol, and is easier to dose 
orally - it doesn't taste quite as offensive to the doe. Intravenous glucose 
(25-50 grams - in a 5 or 10% solution), and B Vitamins, can also be given. 
If probiotics are not available give baking soda orally to prevent acidosis 
these need to be given at least once a day. Dextrose (50%) can be given IV 
in a single 60-100ml dose, followed by a 5% dextrose solution in an 
electrolyte drip. 

Keto-acidocis is precipitated by metabolism of fat. When the doe is not 
consuming an adequate amount of carbohydrate, that she metabolizes fat to 
make glucose. The byproduct of this is ketones, which must be secreted by 
the kidneys. The doe must have a fluid intake to allow this to happen. That 
is why plain water is given, drenched, or tubed, along with the 50% glucose, 
and other support therapy. When enough glucose is present, fat is not 
metabolized, and the body has time to get rid of it. As this happens, the 
doe will become more alert, and start to eat and drink on her own. This is a 
vicious cycle, and difficult to break. If caught early, and treated 
conscientiously, the cycle can be broken. The doe must be monitored 
carefully until the kids are born, condition can change quickly and needs to 
be responded in a timely fashion. 

Does that have prolonged battles with toxemia and/or ketosis sometimes have 
difficulty kidding. Dystocia is common due to the lack of exercise. The 
uterus tends to loose muscle tone and often the kids must be pulled. The 
does lack condition or energy to birth them unassisted. After kidding I feel 
it is very important to leave the kids with the doe, even if you have to 
supplement them. The kids will stimulate the doe's will to live. Continue 
treatment three to four days after kidding to prevent a relapse.


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## Holachicka (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm sorry for SUCH a stupid question, but is there any chance she's going into labor? How can you tell the difference?


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 27, 2012)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> I'm sorry for SUCH a stupid question, but is there any chance she's going into labor? How can you tell the difference?


It isn't normal for them to be off feed, unless they are going into labor that day or in a few hours. The wobbly is also concerning.


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## Roll farms (Mar 27, 2012)

Most of our does who've had toxemia get swollen ankles, lay around, go off feed, just act 'sick' but don't have a temp.

Jeffers Supply would probably rush you some Propylene Glycol, or a local vet should have some they could sell you.

Antibiotics if she's not got an infection may just make her feel worse.  If she's not running a fever and there are no obvious signs of illness, I'm confused why you're giving them to her.


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## redtailgal (Mar 27, 2012)

Walgreen's and sometimes CVS will have proplylene glycol.


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## dhansen (Mar 27, 2012)

I finally found a feed store with some propylene glycol.  She ate some grain from my hand, a little baking soda and drank some water with some Karo in it.  She is standing in my kidding stall, which is better than when she is out in the yard.  She tends to lay down in the yard.  I am watching her closely.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 28, 2012)

dhansen said:
			
		

> I finally found a feed store with some propylene glycol.  She ate some grain from my hand, a little baking soda and drank some water with some Karo in it.  She is standing in my kidding stall, which is better than when she is out in the yard.  She tends to lay down in the yard.  I am watching her closely.


The next thing I would start considering for her, if she doesn't start improving is calcium. Calcium gluconate 23% works really well, It says IV on the bottle, but can be injected in bubbles under the skin and allowed to absorb slowly.  

there are also oral calcium supplements sold for dairy animals, CMPK, is commonly used. 

You could also crush tums tablets(3 or 4 at a time) and add them to the drenches. (but this works very slowly).


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## dhansen (Mar 28, 2012)

She seems to be improving as she is standing, eating alfalfa and grain, and drinking.  None of these is done with much vigor, but definitely better than the last few days.  Baby/babies are still kicking, so that is good too.


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## dhansen (Mar 31, 2012)

I am still working with Jiffy!  Crazy nervous about this doe and her kids.  As of tonight, the kids are still kicking.  Jiffy is eating some and will drink water with Karo if I have a bowl for her. (Yes, she is a bit spoiled these days.)  I have kept up with the propylene glycol and calcium and checking her often.  Pretty sure she is in labor...no ligaments, udder got HUGE today,  and acting very uncomfortable.  I would love to be up all night  helping her.  Praying and hoping her kid/kids and she will be ok.  This had NOT been a fun experience!


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## bonbean01 (Mar 31, 2012)

Hope it all goes well...wish you lived closer...I'd come spend the night in the barn with you...these critters will all age us...LOLOL...but we love them and they are worth the worry.  Hang in there!!


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## Holachicka (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm hoping for the best!! Please keep us updated!


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## Roll farms (Mar 31, 2012)




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## SuburbanFarmChic (Mar 31, 2012)




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## Missy (Mar 31, 2012)

Good Luck!


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## dhansen (Mar 31, 2012)

I was up every two hours checking her.  Didn't think her udder could get any bigger than last night, but it has.  No goo, buy very uncomfortable.  I tried to check her hoo hoo and she was NOT happy about that, but  she is dilated.  Babies definitely still moving.  I keep telling myself she is a "goat", but she is suck a special goat.


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## Mamaboid (Mar 31, 2012)

OH, how many times has every goat owner said the words, she is just a goat, but oh she is special.  It amazes me how an animal that weighs a hundred pounds or 20 pounds even can get right inside your heart and live there.  It is a goat specialty though.


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## dhansen (Apr 5, 2012)

Update....So, I had to leave my husband in charge as the trip to see Grandpa was scheduled long ago for my kids(the human kind).  My husband really must love me! True love....it doesn't happen everyday you know!  He continued the propylene glycol, calcium, probiotics etc for me.  I was so sad that I had to leave and the chances of mom and/or babies not making it, with hubby in charge, were very real.  Good news....hubby let her out of the goat pen into my backyard each day to enjoy the sunshine.  He came home from work on Monday to twins...doe and buck and happy mama.  I was shocked, thrilled and feel very blessed!  All is well, although the kids are VERY small.  I think that may be due to the lack of food mom ate in the last week or so.  I am soooooo grateful to my hubby and my creator for all His blessings.


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## 20kidsonhill (Apr 5, 2012)

That is wonderful.  Congratulations.


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## RareBreedFancier (Apr 6, 2012)

Congrats!  So glad all three are well. Can't wait to see them. 
Congrats to hubby too, he did a great job.


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## snapnzap (Apr 6, 2012)

Yay!


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Apr 6, 2012)




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## Pearce Pastures (Apr 6, 2012)

Yahoooo!!!  Babies and a great hubby....golly you are set!     Pics?


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## dhansen (Apr 6, 2012)

Here is a picture of the little miracles!
The little boy is on the left and little girl on the right.


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## Mamaboid (Apr 6, 2012)

Ears!! oh the Ears!  They are gorgeous.  Congrats to hubby on a job well done.


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## TTs Chicks (Apr 6, 2012)

yay!  Good job hubby!


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