# Total newbie with probably a silly, no brainer question...



## samssimonsays (Mar 31, 2015)

BUT I do not know the answer so, here it goes! Laugh if you must but this is a real question...

I am adding in two beautiful BABY Alpine goats at the end of May (one may be an alpinexboer), they will be weaned then. What are the dietary needs for a growing alpine doe x2. Like hay, what should I feed, supplements and general needs for their growth and health with minimal waste. I want to do this up right y'all   I want to get everything set up before bringing home babies. We have to wait until the frost is out of the ground to do a fence and their building but at least I can research feeds and get any supplements they will need as well as the supplies we need to build their pen. I am not doing anything fancy, just basic. Once I get the basics down in the first year I hope to add in a couple more babies next year


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## Southern by choice (Mar 31, 2015)

Goat feed 16% with a Calcium Phosphorus ratio of 2:1 or greater.
Loose Minerals (I like Manna pro)
Grass Hay- Orchard. Alfalfa, Timothy, ... there are many hays available and some are not available in some regions yet prevalent in others. 

Simple is best.

I would ask the breeder for either some of their feed so you can mix it if you prefer something else. Ask for some hay too (be prepared to buy a bale) for the same reason. Look closely at what the breeder suggests for a feeding program, ask lots of questions.

Congratulations on your new goats! Great choice. LOVE an ALPINE!

We do not do any sweet feeds but many do... something to look at.


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## samssimonsays (Mar 31, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> Goat feed 16% with a Calcium Phosphorus ratio of 2:1 or greater.
> Loose Minerals (I like Manna pro)
> Grass Hay- Orchard. Alfalfa, Timothy, ... there are many hays available and some are not available in some regions yet prevalent in others.
> 
> ...





Oh yes! Gosh... so many things I do for my rabbits and pups but never thought to with these guys as well... OOPS! And this is why I ask before! Thank you   I have a note book started for all of this information... I took down the equation for how much hay they need a day for maintenance only not growing or anything else and hopefully will be purchasing hay from them or their neighbors. My rabbits eat hay like no other so I go through a TON of it with  17 rabbits weighing between 10 and 16 pounds. The building we will be making for the goats will also double as hay storage for both. Since my rabbits can't have alfalfa could I stick solely with orchard or timothy hays? Or do goats, or baby goats NEED alfalfa occasionally?


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## samssimonsays (Mar 31, 2015)

Will I need to clip their coats? I have a friend near by that does farrier work and I can hire her to do hooves or teach me to. I live in Northern Minnesota, a side from the babies, should I invest in goat coats for the adults? The lady I am getting them from keeps collars on them at all times and I would like something like that but don't know if halters or collars are the way to go? We will most likely be making our own goat milking stand next year when they get a bit older and I would add in the milking pumps probably closer to actually getting milk... If that is the way I want to go. The more I read the more confused I get... and the more I have questions. I know the same thing doesn;t work for everyone and climate accounts for a lot of it.


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## animalmom (Mar 31, 2015)

Just curious as to why your rabbits cant have alfalfa.  My rabbits (AlTex mixes weighing 14+ lbs) love the stuff, can't get enough of it and since the goats eat the alfalfa leaves and pretty much leave the stems I get double use of each bale of alfalfa.  Both sets of animals waste the hay or alfalfa, and not having opposable thumbs is a bummer, but it is nice to think that both groups get their fair share.

Other than that, taint no such thing as a silly question cause if'n you are thinking it so is someone else.  You are going to really love your goaties.  I'd keep things simple the first year, but definitely get you a milking stand, purchased or home built.  Milking stand is really truly a necessity for more than just milking.  A stand makes giving shots and trimming hooves sooooooo much easier than tying the goat to a fence.  You can learn how to trim hooves and the more often you get your girls on the stand and trim the hooves the better they will behave on the stand... as they come to realize you are not intent on killing them, silly goaties.  I keep collars on my goats all the time as I find it helpful to have something to hold on to.  Some folks don't keep collars on because they are concerned about the goat getting caught on things, like fencing.  I like to use halters on goats that are having a difficult time learning how to walk on a lead; not that they are hard headed, no not my goaties.  I call it the "blue halter of shame".  They get the idea pretty quickly.

Regarding milking, just a suggestion, when you actually get around to milking and if you only have two goats to do then at least for a while just milk by hand.  It is a good way for your hands to learn each doe's udder.  If you find yourself with more goaties then you would need to consider your time, the amount of milk, and your finances to determine if you want to go with some type of milk pump.

I've been using a hand pump for 4 years now and am pleased with its performance.  I milk 6 does a day, 3 in the morning and 3 in the evening.  Again it is time vs money vs amount of milk and then make a personal decision.  The hand pump gets most of the milk and then I still have to do a final stripping to ensure I got it all, greedy little woman that I am.

I'd imagine those BYHers who live in the North and Canada would be able to help you with questions about goat coats.  Seems to me, she who lives where if it gets to 20 degrees it is cold and when it dips to the teens starts wondering how she offended the good Lord so much that He moved the Great State of Texas north, that if you have a good shelter that blocks the wind you might be just fine.  You can always hang a heat lamp for babies or make them a warming barrel -- directions are somewhere on BYH.

Don't worry about reading and getting confused.  Just read more!  It is ok, there's always something that confuses me that I eventually get unconfused from only to find something else.  Life... it is a learning process.

Good luck with your Alpines!  They will be a lot of fun if you let them.


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## samssimonsays (Mar 31, 2015)

animalmom said:


> Just curious as to why your rabbits cant have alfalfa.  My rabbits (AlTex mixes weighing 14+ lbs) love the stuff, can't get enough of it and since the goats eat the alfalfa leaves and pretty much leave the stems I get double use of each bale of alfalfa.  Both sets of animals waste the hay or alfalfa, and not having opposable thumbs is a bummer, but it is nice to think that both groups get their fair share.
> 
> Other than that, taint no such thing as a silly question cause if'n you are thinking it so is someone else.  You are going to really love your goaties.  I'd keep things simple the first year, but definitely get you a milking stand, purchased or home built.  Milking stand is really truly a necessity for more than just milking.  A stand makes giving shots and trimming hooves sooooooo much easier than tying the goat to a fence.  You can learn how to trim hooves and the more often you get your girls on the stand and trim the hooves the better they will behave on the stand... as they come to realize you are not intent on killing them, silly goaties.  I keep collars on my goats all the time as I find it helpful to have something to hold on to.  Some folks don't keep collars on because they are concerned about the goat getting caught on things, like fencing.  I like to use halters on goats that are having a difficult time learning how to walk on a lead; not that they are hard headed, no not my goaties.  I call it the "blue halter of shame".  They get the idea pretty quickly.
> 
> ...




Oh thank you! Since I have never owned anything with hooves I am totally in the dark on what are necessities and what can be added later. We do have wolves near us and known cougar sightings so having a sturdy building to lock them up in until getting an LGD would be something that is a must for me. I can pen them in my rabbit barn no issue aside from it blocking my center aisle and having to climb over things to reach rabbit cages :/  We have a collie who is learning her protection skills on her own (just turned one)... and a St. Bernard/Great Pyr mix (just turned 6 months) who is , you could say not the brightest bulb. We love him to death but he is no LGD nor do we have hopes of him ever being one... My rabbit may be a better one sadly... BUT he is big, with a little bark but BIG almost 80#s at 6 months old. He got all the bernard qualities as his siblings are all great LGD's or home protectors... It came naturally to them all. Not our boy  He pees a little and hides behind mom (me) when a squirrel chatters, car engine revs up and so on. I plan on adding a sibling of his from this years litter to be the LGD. This time I hope to get a more dominant one  

I never thought about getting them used to a stand before having to start milking. And I really like the idea of having a collar on... I would probably go as far as having dog tags on them as  a JUST IN CASE measure.... I am weird like that. Hoping to have hog wire so as they can not fit through or climb it. I actually don't know if my girls will have horns or not, the lady had some of both but most of the horned goats were boer crosses? which is one I was looking at from her as well. 

As for the Alfalfa, the calcium level is too much for my guys. Since they are show rabbits and not meat it builds up in their urine and can cause urinary issues. By rule of thumb I will only feed alfalfa when it is double digits below zero because it does beef mine up a lot more with the added steam rolled oats, BOSS and calf manna added into their feed. But I don't feed anything over 6 months old Alfalfa due to the calcium. So I try to avoid giving it as much as possible. Some of it mixed in with my timothy is ok but not in major quantities.


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## Hens and Roos (Apr 1, 2015)

no such thing as a silly question  everyone is great about helping out as you can see from the posts so far!

just something to remember is that goats are just like chicken math


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## samssimonsays (Apr 1, 2015)

Thank you @Hens and Roos I have found everyone here VERY helpful so far!


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## samssimonsays (Apr 1, 2015)

Also, is there anything they can NOT have, like absolutely not... Kinda like dogs and cooked bones and chocolate not allowed to have.


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## Pearce Pastures (Apr 1, 2015)

I caution folks on feeding sweet feeds, salt blocks, sulfur, or hard mineral blocks.  Simple is usually best--grass hay, water, minerals.  

Beyond that, you might think about what they will have access to eat aside from what you provide.  Here is a link to a list of potentially dangerous plants that you should avoid feeding your goats.

In general, avoid letting them have rhubarb, azalea/rhododendron, and yews.  Take a look around where they will be and note the types of plants growing.  Many of the items on the list require the goat to eat a lot of before they would have an issue, so if you see there might be a problem with say TONS of milkweed, you might work to reduce it. 

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/goatlist.html


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## samssimonsays (Apr 1, 2015)

Pearce Pastures said:


> I caution folks on feeding sweet feeds, salt blocks, sulfur, or hard mineral blocks.  Simple is usually best--grass hay, water, minerals.
> 
> Beyond that, you might think about what they will have access to eat aside from what you provide.  Here is a link to a list of potentially dangerous plants that you should avoid feeding your goats.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much  We would be fencing mostly just our weedy back lawn and such. lots of dandelions but that is about it. We do have a lot of raspberry bushes on our property though.


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## Marge23 (Apr 1, 2015)

https://fiascofarm.com/goats/poisonousplants.htm

Here is a good list of plants they cant have and good treats for them. This website has lots of good information on most things as well. I shaved my goats last year for showing. And i do their hooves just whenever they look like they need trimmed. About once a month or so. But i haven't been into goats for very long and only have a few so Im not good on all the specifics, but I do read tons and Read lots of opinions!! As for collars I just have dog collars, but take them off when I'm not moving them. I put coats on my goats when it gets really cold. Nothing too crazy. Fleece works best for me. I just cut the back legs wholes and put a button on the chest to keep it on. I also have a couple cheap dog coats for them too that are thicker. Honestly I'm am scared to use a heat lamp, but i fill a couple milk jugs up with hot water for them to lay on. Also they LOVE to drink hot water in the winter. They drink it while I'm pouring it into the buckets! So thats just some of the things that I do. Good luck with your babies. Alpines are cute!!


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## samssimonsays (Apr 2, 2015)

Marge23 said:


> https://fiascofarm.com/goats/poisonousplants.htm
> 
> Here is a good list of plants they cant have and good treats for them. This website has lots of good information on most things as well. I shaved my goats last year for showing. And i do their hooves just whenever they look like they need trimmed. About once a month or so. But i haven't been into goats for very long and only have a few so Im not good on all the specifics, but I do read tons and Read lots of opinions!! As for collars I just have dog collars, but take them off when I'm not moving them. I put coats on my goats when it gets really cold. Nothing too crazy. Fleece works best for me. I just cut the back legs wholes and put a button on the chest to keep it on. I also have a couple cheap dog coats for them too that are thicker. Honestly I'm am scared to use a heat lamp, but i fill a couple milk jugs up with hot water for them to lay on. Also they LOVE to drink hot water in the winter. They drink it while I'm pouring it into the buckets! So thats just some of the things that I do. Good luck with your babies. Alpines are cute!!




Thank you!!! I will have all of this in notes I am transferring from here to my evernote app! This is awesome! My dad is going to come over and help put our fence up hopefully middle of the month/end of the month and then we will be able to fix up the area for them in my rabbit barn and build them a daytime shelter and should be set to go for the end of May when they can come home!!!   I am oober excited now! LOL


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## samssimonsays (Apr 3, 2015)

Well ... I went with a friend to look at baby goats for HER barn and low and behold...  I put a down payment down on two more  babies!  A full Alpine who will be wethered because I am not ready to have two pens and the smelly boys from what I'm told...  and a little girl half Nubian half saanan!  this Will make 4... not two. Oops...

So, meet Thelma and Olaf!


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## frustratedearthmother (Apr 3, 2015)

and so it starts.... 

CONGRATS!!!!


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## samssimonsays (Apr 3, 2015)

frustratedearthmother said:


> and so it starts....
> 
> CONGRATS!!!!


Hahaha! Yes. It does...  that'll be 4 BABIES as well...  what did I just do?


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## Southern by choice (Apr 3, 2015)

Yep... that is the perfect start to a goat hoarder!

Congrats!


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## Marge23 (Apr 3, 2015)

Congrats!! Cuties!


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## samssimonsays (Apr 3, 2015)

Thanks ladies! Super excited now I have to start construction ASAP on a fence and shelter...  so much for being Oh so prepared before I bought any!


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## samssimonsays (Apr 7, 2015)

Well, the date is set to install fence posts!  We are doing the route of tposts, hog wire and then the wooden posts to mount the gate to. We also have where it will be going planned. No solid major shed or building yet... but we have all summer for that. And next summer. Can not WAIT! Hubby still thinks it is two... He actually freaked out because they are ready to go end of May... said no and that if we had several months it would be no big deal... soooo... Day taken off and a friend is coming over with tpost installers and we will do the major stuff while he is at work  when he wont have to do any of it all will be well!


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## samssimonsays (Apr 7, 2015)

I would also like to share a picture the lady sent us of the babies. Two up top are Louise and Thelma, two on bottom are Elsa and Olaf... YEP BOTH of MINE refuse to look at the camera... I am the one who likes taking photos... sigh... it really doesn't surprise me at all...


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## samssimonsays (Apr 21, 2015)

My new fence is up! it will be expanded hopefully through the summer... but the base pen is DONE! (aside from the posts for the gate and the gate hahhaa! YAY!!!


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## Hens and Roos (Apr 21, 2015)

That's great!  Getting a bigger area fenced is next on our list(like in the next couple weeks)


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## samssimonsays (Apr 21, 2015)

It seems like fencing will always be in the future with goats hahaha! that is what I am hearing anyways LOL!


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## samssimonsays (May 5, 2015)

We brought home Thelma and Olaf, not Ollie and TIlda, full names are Oliver and Matilda. Husband freaked about a boy being on the property because "they all get mean and nasty" even wethered I guess   So we will be selling him as a pet hopefully as soon as another doe is available and I am only allowed 2 total.  Hoping he sees Ollie is not mean and not going to get mean and decides to let me keep him. How was I supposed to know he would refuse to hear the TRUTH on wethers...  

Anywho, here are the babes at home! they came home Sunday


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## MaggieSims (Aug 30, 2016)

@samssimonsays 
Wethers, imho are the best for pets. They are neutered, no hormones to affect mood. I keep all, right now I have a buck and two wethers together. They are the best of friends. The two wethers are the sweetest, SWEETEST, out of everyone, but my buck is super sweet as well. I got him young, as a bottle baby, and he was raised to lead, and to stand on a milk stand for feet trims. He's my pride and joy. The 3 amigos are the best goats I have, as far as pets. I also have 4 does, and they are friendly too, but can be moody at times.


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## samssimonsays (Aug 30, 2016)

MaggieSims said:


> @samssimonsays
> Wethers, imho are the best for pets. They are neutered, no hormones to affect mood. I keep all, right now I have a buck and two wethers together. They are the best of friends. The two wethers are the sweetest, SWEETEST, out of everyone, but my buck is super sweet as well. I got him young, as a bottle baby, and he was raised to lead, and to stand on a milk stand for feet trims. He's my pride and joy. The 3 amigos are the best goats I have, as far as pets. I also have 4 does, and they are friendly too, but can be moody at times.


Our wether was sold to a pet hone as he was very aggressive towards the girls and myself at feeding time. Not mean I guess just pushy for the food. He was a jerk about it and decided to start challenging me when it came time for feeding. He is spoiled rotten and a happy camper with another wether as pets now. He just needed less goats I guess. We now have two bucks and they are sweethearts. We've come a long way from pets and no males. We have two bucks and four does


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## NH homesteader (Aug 30, 2016)

So funny,  we had a wether just like that.  We had two wethers as pets and all was well. Added some does and one wether got mean.  And he was my only goat with horns. He started maneuvering under them and slamming his head back to hurt them. Sold him to a pet home with one other goat and he's happy as could be!

And it happens fast huh? I now have 4 does,  my other original wether and a buck.


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## samssimonsays (Aug 31, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> So funny,  we had a wether just like that.  We had two wethers as pets and all was well. Added some does and one wether got mean.  And he was my only goat with horns. He started maneuvering under them and slamming his head back to hurt them. Sold him to a pet home with one other goat and he's happy as could be!
> 
> And it happens fast huh? I now have 4 does,  my other original wether and a buck.


I honestly thought it was just me! Seemed like no one else had ever had any issues. We were concerned hed hurt the does or cause miscarriages if we kept him. We opted to get an unrelated buck to ours and have two bucks instead of a buck and wether since the weather wasn't the nicest to our buckling either. As an Alpine he was getting pretty big at a year old.


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## NH homesteader (Aug 31, 2016)

Ours started targeting one of our does.  If she went near the hay feeder he would come flying out of nowhere and nail her. We kept our other wether,  who has ended up being amazing with our buckling.  He sleeps between him and the door to protect him,  it's so cute. We will eventually get another buck but Wendall the wether has earned himself a permanent spot at our farm!


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## samssimonsays (Aug 31, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Ours started targeting one of our does.  If she went near the hay feeder he would come flying out of nowhere and nail her. We kept our other wether,  who has ended up being amazing with our buckling.  He sleeps between him and the door to protect him,  it's so cute. We will eventually get another buck but Wendall the wether has earned himself a permanent spot at our farm!


That is great! Ours was like that with our first doe tilda but everyone else he was horrible to. I'm much happier and stress free at feeding time now too!


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## MaggieSims (Aug 31, 2016)

Bummer your wethers were jerks! I've never had a wether that was like that. I guess some will just be who they are, regardless. My two wethers have been handled so much by myself and kids that they just come when called, my 6 year old son lets the boys out to 'free range ' and they just follow him around like the leader of the crew. My wethers are boar/ Nubian cross. Maybe the breed helps their temperament?


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## NH homesteader (Aug 31, 2016)

Oh mine was amazing with my 3 year old daughter.  He was a people goat! Just not good with the other goats.  He was a Nigie/Pygmy cross and was a bottle baby. My wethers used to free range and sleep on the front porch...  Just didn't work when I added more goats.


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## samssimonsays (Aug 31, 2016)

Mine was also a major people goat. But he was an Alpine and his mother was the herd queen and he was purchased with the lesser goats daughter so he was born "entitled" he never wanted up to other goats and when they also wanted food hed get frantic and pushy to show them he was first. He's a great pet but didn't work out with a larger herd. His "herd" was all of two does who each had twins so very small and rightly knit. A new goat wasn't accepted by him at all.


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