# High Desert Cowboy- How far is it up north?



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 27, 2017)

Hello all,
After writing out my rather lengthy introduction I thought it'd be a good idea to write a little about our little slice of heaven.  The reason I call it the Old California Trail is that our property is found right along the old Southern Route of the California trail, also know as the Mormon Trail.  We moved here in 2015 after i received a job offer to manage a commercial sow farm.  Not exactly what I planned on doing with my degree but I had a job offer as a ranch manager in Idaho fall through and the other job offers I'd received were too far away from my step-sons dad.  So we moved down here and managed to find a home with room for my horses.  Of course while it did have room for my horses and even a decent little tack shed it was not fenced in any way and having spent most of my limited money (recently graduated college student with 2 kids, one recently born) on the home I was unable to put up any real fencing beyond the Hotwire I'd brought with me.  But we make do and as time materials and funds have become available I have attempted to provide better fencing options.  
We started with my two horses, Jack and Bro. Brother Larsen (Brolo) is an 11 year old paint/Arab



 

Jack is a 10 year old paint I picked up while working for an outfit in southwest Colorado



Shortly after moving here I finally got my farm dog I always wanted, Kya.  She's half Aussie 1/4 heeler and 1/4 border collie.  I just wanted a pal for when I was riding or moving cows, but she taught me a good stock dog is more than that.   I feed a group of corriente cattle during the summer and they had gotten loose.  One started running for the road and before I could even try doing anything this little dark streak blew by, got into that cows face and brought it back to me.  So I got interested in training stock dogs.  I love Kya so much I bred her to a friends working border collie (a cow herding workaholic) and got Dixie back in march.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 27, 2017)

And of course I can't forget the ducks.  Seeing as sheep/cow proof fencing (also sheep and cows) were out of the price range I looked for another possible way to train my dogs to work stock at home.  My studies pointed to the possibility of using ducks, and where I had some garden fencing and plywood laying around I felt that could be a great alternative.  So we got 6 Indian Runner ducks back in May.  Indian runners are a blast to watch move around because rather than waddle they stand straight up and run everywhere.  My wife said they looked like they needed little top hats and monocles to go with their "posh" walking method.  So we named the drake Chancey (pronounced ChAWNsee in a snooty voice) and his ladies got very ladylike names: Victoria, Elizabeth, Mary, Margaret, and Agatha.  
Kya will work them a little but Dixie had literally no interest in them.  I thought I'd bred a dud until a few weeks ago my neighbor came home with 15 sheep and suddenly I couldn't find Dixie.  She'd run over to his place and had all 15 sheep grouped up and waiting!  So she's forced my hand and I'll have to get sheep soon, but at least I can get eggs from my ducks.  Indian Runners are supposed to be prolific egg layers


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Sep 27, 2017)

Cute little things!  Your ducks and your dogs, lol.  Gotta love the horses too.  Hope to keep hearing how your story unfolds!


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Sep 27, 2017)

Sounds like ya have a full-blown "Adventure" just waitin' on ya there........I love paints and it is just wonderful when ya happen upon a really good dog...or 2.........I must say, tho, those runners sure have my attention. We have khaki campbells and rouens right now, but would like to add some runners come Spring. I've been thru your neck of the woods back when I was driving a truck for a living....lots of wide open spaces out that way. Sure glad ya joined up and will be looking forward in watching the developements.....


----------



## Alaskan (Sep 27, 2017)

Gorgeous horses.

Cite ducks.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 27, 2017)

Thanks everyone.  I really like my runners and they should be old enough to lay eggs soon.  I looked at khakis for a minute and now that my ducks will probably just be for eggs I'll probably end up getting a couple for some variety.  And you're not kidding about wide open spaces!  
This is from my front door


 

And to the east


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Sep 27, 2017)

Yep, it is still Beautiful....no doubt, and I sure don't mean it as a slight, but it is that way for miles and miles and miles. I used to put in some jammin' tapes and enjoy the scenery. Are the peepers in your pic the same ones that were grown?....or do ya have some reinforcements coming up?.....also, are they the fawn/white runners?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 27, 2017)

The ducklings in the picture grew up to be the ones in the picture with my dogs. 1 drake and 5 hens I've worked out a deal with a friend with an incubator to hopefully hatch some offspring from my ducks next year.  And yes they are fawn and white runners.  They were hatched on May 23


----------



## Latestarter (Sep 28, 2017)

Great to have you with us and beautiful pics. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Pastor Dave (Sep 28, 2017)

I don't have working dogs, but Kya sounds excellent and a natural.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 28, 2017)

So I got two great bits of news today.  First a rancher buddy of mine called to tell me his wife is making him put in a new fence around the home place (she wants metal) so if I'll help with the fence and haul off all of the old post wjhich are still in good shape I can have them to build my own fence!  Also the county signed off on my plans for a wood burning stove in my kitchen/living room.  Fun part about where we're at it's 100+ all summer and then it drops to -10 in the winter.  Out here we only had an old propane furnace which killed my pocket book.  Our first winter we installed a stove in the unfinished basement where it wouldn't take up space but the heat just doesn't make it upstairs despite all our tricks.  So that will be a nice addition.  We also got two young cats from a friend that I somehow got talked into.  I swore we wouldn't get more cats after the kitten incident of 2016 but fingers crossed this time I guess.


----------



## Baymule (Sep 28, 2017)

That is great news on the fence! I am a self confessed scrounger. I collected lumber, used tin, telephone poles, we couldn't park either vehicle in the double garage at our old house! We bought this place (8 acres) and had to start from scratch with fencing, chicken coops, barn, the works. My husband doesn't make fun of me any more! 

If you have a large lumber yard in your area, they often have cull or reject lumber and plywood that you can buy at a discount. Our barn is 36'x36' and is built almost entirely of used and cull materials. We had to buy 22 brand new 2x6x20 for rafters and all new roof decking. I had used tin, but not enough, so we sucked it up and bought all new tin. 

So my point is, you can "find" materials, buy "deals" when you can and you will accumulate enough to build sheds, a barn, the things you need. I have been known to dumpster dive in the big construction boxes and haul out some really nice (to me) lumber with the added bonus of lots of nails that provided me with hours of entertainment of pulling them out. 

The county had to approve/give permission for you to install a wood burning heater in your home? Is it because of a building permit or something? I'd like to see the county tell me I could or couldn't have a wood burning heater in my own home. I'd install one, hang a COME AND TAKE IT flag out front and sit out on the porch with a shotgun.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 28, 2017)

I enjoy getting building materials at discount prices myself.  I actually built my duck coop using all reclaimed materials.  We also saved everything we could from the walls I had to tear out for this stove.
Unfortunately we do have to get permission from the county or our home owners insurance won't cover anything in the event of a fire. Otherwise I'd be right there with you with the shotgun idea.

I have more pallets I've got to break down and I'm gonna use to cover up my mouse eaten osb and I've since covered the roof with some rubber mats I got from work.  I'm keeping my eye out for some scrap metal roofing but around here that is like gold.


----------



## Baymule (Sep 29, 2017)

Nice duck coop, I bet they like it! I hate having to pay full price. Sounds like the county has a back door deal with the insurance companies, a wood heater is an improvement, so it should be taxed! We are fortunate in that respect. Our taxes are frozen because my husband is over 65. So all the improvements we have made don't go against our taxes. We never pulled a permit for a darn thing. 

Something else you might look at, a lot of industrial type companies use wood shipping crates. Sometimes you can get the used crates for free.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 10, 2017)

Well when it rains it pours.  It's been a minute since my last post but it has been crazy around here.  I was supposed to be gathering cows last week but Jack wound up lame so I've had to put some attention to that.  He's coming along but he probably won't be good to go until after we're done bringing cows off the mountain so I might miss out this year.  Add sick pigs and kids to that and it's been a mad house.  Once I get past this chest cold my children have shared with me though I do plan on finishing my hearth for the stove and starting in my new fence while the weather allows. 
I don't suppose anyone knows a magic cure for a lingering chest cold (rest isn't really an option)


----------



## Pastor Dave (Oct 10, 2017)

You might rethink it and consider allergies. I have heard of plenty of folks lately getting allergies that never had em before. Some of the 24 hr nasal allergy meds work well, then just use something periodically for cough or mucus. I like hot mint tea and Vicks mentho rub on my chest. Maybe a good shot of whiskey before bed.


----------



## Latestarter (Oct 10, 2017)

Hate sickness/colds/all of that... Hope you kick it and feel better soon.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Oct 10, 2017)

Sorry to hear about Jack, sure hope he heals for ya quickly and has no lasting effects. The hearth is looking good. I can't count the number of nites my Mom gooped Vicks vapor rub on my chest. If it is a deep chest cold, it maybe worth going to the Doc....ya sure don't want it to turn to pneumonia....


----------



## Baymule (Oct 10, 2017)

Emergen C I buy it at Walmart. I use 2-3 packets in water. Hint; it fizzes up and will over flow the glass. Use very little water, stir the packets until it quits fizzing, then add a little more. I don't fill the cup or glass, it makes it more to drink and it ain't that great of a taste. Take it 3 times a day and like @Pastor Dave said, a shot of whiskey or a hot toddy before bed.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 11, 2017)

Thanks everyone I'll try a few of those.  This thing has really just wiped me out.  And Jack is starting to do a better it was a abscess in his hoof so I've let it drain and bandages it up with an iodine soaked rag and duct tape.  Works like a charm


----------



## Baymule (Oct 11, 2017)

Haha, I had a mare that an abscess blew out the top of her hoof, she learned real quick to curl her hoof up when I squirted on the Betadine. 

glad Jack is on the mend. You and him can feel crappy together. LOL


----------



## Baymule (Oct 11, 2017)

I am in admiration of the beautiful job you are doing on your hearth.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 13, 2017)

Thanks Baymule it's been hard to get anything done with this darn cold going but I think I'm starting to get over it.  I should be done in the next week or so with it.  Meanwhile we somehow wound up with a little tabby cat so I've gone from 0 cats to 3.  Now if I could just get someone to drop some sheep and fencing off at my place that would be a gift I'd gladly take.  Third cat not so much


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 14, 2017)

So I didn't get much done around my place today as I spent most of my day helping a friend build some new corrals for his horses and heifers. And while I know it's a sin and all to covet your friends stuff I must say I had severe corral envy today


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Oct 14, 2017)

Since ya helped build it, there is nothing wrong with a man admiring his "Handi-work".....
Hope ya are feeling better.


----------



## Latestarter (Oct 15, 2017)

I sure do miss those mountain views accompanied by fresh, clean, COLD air.


----------



## Pastor Dave (Oct 15, 2017)

Nah, not coveting, PLANNING on how yours will look once it goes up.


----------



## Baymule (Oct 15, 2017)

Nothing wrong with strongly admiring a bodacious fence! I also have suffered from barn envy, fence envy, driveway envy, tractor envy...... Now I have a barn, fence, some of the driveway has rock on it, we bought a 2320 Kubota......we will finish the inside of the barn this winter, or at least get the feed and tack room done. There's always a bigger tractor......


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 16, 2017)

You're not kidding about the cold.  I woke up this morning and it was 18 degrees outside.  The cats were standing on the ice in the horse trough trying to get at water and the ducks were pulling their feet up to keep them warm.  Seeing as its only October I'm figuring it'll be a cold winter.  And I've also suffered barn envy driveway envy and tractor envy.  Every time I visit my inlaws I have to remind myself he's almost triple my age and makes twice my paycheck so I've got time.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Oct 16, 2017)

Bbrrrrrrr!!.........I don't move much or very fast at that temp, unless it is to get back in bed....


----------



## Alaskan (Oct 16, 2017)

CntryBoy777 said:


> Bbrrrrrrr!!.........I don't move much or very fast at that temp, unless it is to get back in bed....


me too!

heat is nice.


----------



## Baymule (Oct 16, 2017)

18 degrees here would be unusual. I think the coldest we have got to was 19 and that sure didn't last long. We might get snow, but it is gone in 3 days or so. None of that stock piled stuff!


----------



## Mini Horses (Oct 16, 2017)

Welcome from Virginia.
Love your horses!   Do you have a shelter for them?  Didn't see that in this thread. 

We have to have inspections for any heating units installed here, especially wood burning!   It's really a safety issue, not a penalty.
The brick looks like it's coming along well.   I took out the wood burner & installed a propane -- just not going to haul wood anymore for myself -- do help daughter get hers stocked in for her fireplace sometime.  She cuts and we load into front end loader of my tractor, I drive & dump.  LOL  She has a splitter. 

Hope you get your outside work done before the snow sets in.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 18, 2017)

Yeah it gets harder to get out of bed in the cold but sadly i gotta get up and head to work by 5am so it is what it is.  It warmed back up quick and was 75 when I got home that day but those low temps in the morning are a great reminder that winter is coming.  I’ll take 18 while I can a few years ago we went over a month without seeing double digits unless it was at night but that’s because it was -16.  One thing about weather in Utah if you don’t like it give it a few minutes it’ll probably change


----------



## Baymule (Oct 18, 2017)

MINUS SIXTEEN? Aw HECK NO! I'll keep my happy southern self right here in east Texas!


----------



## Alaskan (Oct 18, 2017)

Baymule said:


> MINUS SIXTEEN? Aw HECK NO! I'll keep my happy southern self right here in east Texas!


Texas.... the best place on earth!!!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 19, 2017)

I was born in Southern California and a few years later we moved to Bedford Texas.  So most of my young life I enjoyed fairer climates.  My first winter in Utah I don’t think I ever took my jacket off and my step-dad couldn’t understand how I was so cold.


----------



## Baymule (Oct 19, 2017)

After spending most of my life along the Gulf coast, we moved 3 years ago to north east Texas. Not a lot of climate difference, but it is a little colder here. It's not as humid, so it doesn't feel as cold, we sure like it here. I don't think I would want to live where the snow doesn't go away after 3 days. LOL


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 19, 2017)

So we found out today that Dixie can jump a 6 foot dog run.  I was out feeding horses when suddenly Dixie’s by my side and I can hear Kya carrying on because she can’t jump out like her pup can.  This poses a serious problem as my neighbor has all of her really old sheep (I’m talking 11+ year old sheep that she’s still breeding) at her home to lamb in a month or two (really early) and has made it clear that she doesn’t want my dogs anywhere near her sheep.  Another neighbor recently lost 6 sheep and had another 18 tore up by a pair of pit bulls so everyone is a little on edge about dogs and sheep.  So I’ve rigged up a leg of hot wire from my horse corral to go just a couple inches over the top of the run.  While it will no doubt lead to a shocking discovery for my pup, I’d rather see her shocked then shot


----------



## Baymule (Oct 19, 2017)

My Great Pyrenees Trip, can jump out and has. But for weeks afterward I toured him around the fence, stopping between each T-post, shaking the fence and fussing at him. He hung his head, squinted his eyes, grinned, like he does when he's in trouble. He hasn't jumped out since. He jumps interior fences and I'm OK with that.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Oct 19, 2017)

Baymule said:


> But for weeks afterward I toured him around the fence, stopping between each T-post, shaking the fence and fussing at him.


Cowboy is about to get fussed at!  A LOT!


----------



## Baymule (Oct 19, 2017)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Cowboy is about to get fussed at!  A LOT!



If it hurts his feelings to be fussed at, it should work. Trip can't stand it for me to be unhappy with him, but we're talking about a 3 year old dog, it took some time to get here from a goofy puppy. LOL


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 19, 2017)

That’s a very large dog to be jumping a fence like that.  When I put Dixie back you could tell she knew she’d been naughty but I feel a little better knowing there’s a little reminder around the top of her run


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 20, 2017)

So I forgot something crucial to my whole hot wire around the top of the dog run idea.  I was in a hurry lining the top of the run yesterday and so I didn’t test it like I should have, just assuming that I had done it right and ran off to take care of some other errands.  I get a call this morning from my wife saying Dixie is out again!  She watched her through the window just jump out and start chasing one of the cats.  The wire hadn’t even phased her!  So I’m sitting here at lunch and it hits me what I’ve done wrong.  I put hardware cloth covered with rubber mats all the way around the bottom of my dog run so that they can’t dig out but it’s insulating the run so that it won’t complete the circuit with my ground rods!  So first thing when I get home I guess is ground that dog run out.  Lesson learned:  even if your in a hurry always take that extra moment to insure it worked


----------



## Baymule (Oct 20, 2017)

Your dog outsmarted you, but something tells me that it won't be for very long! LOL LOL


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 21, 2017)

So I got home last night and grounded the fence. Of course within two minutes she tried to jump out of her run.  Let’s just say problem solved.  Once she came out of her dog house she kept glancing at the top of the run at the biting string around the top


----------



## Baymule (Oct 21, 2017)




----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 23, 2017)

Jacks hoof is doing a lot better and he seems pretty comfortable now.  Now I just have to pull his front shoes now that he can comfortably stand. 
Dixie doesn’t try to jump out anymore I believe her experience has wisened her up to it.  Maybe I shoulda put it around the base when I had a digging problem
Ducks are molting everywhere it looks like a pillow fight happened I was slightly nervous at first with so many feathers but everyone seems fat and happy.  I should be getting eggs soon.  I hope.  I keep checking everyday a little excited and then it’s a let down.  Does a watched duck ever lay?


----------



## AClark (Oct 23, 2017)

Watched chickens don't lay that's for sure! Not sure about ducks, both of my adults ended up being male. 
Bummer about the abscessed hoof, waiting for those to grow out sucks. My mare apparently had one before I bought her, and it just grew out enough that the hoof wall broke off. I don't like how it broke so I'm a bit remiss to trim on that hoof just yet, even though it's uneven.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 29, 2017)

So it’s been a crazy busy week with pretty much every day after work being devoted to working on everything besides the outside things.  So for a break we ran to town for their annual livestock festival. They had a parade with “antique” (pre 65) tractors, old sheep camps, horse drawn wagons, and finally a big flock of sheep was driven down Main Street.  I told my wife when I retire and the kids are all moved out I want to go live in a sheep camp.  Follow that up with sheepdog exhibitions horse and tractor pulls and a ranch rodeo and we’re ready for the coming week where hopefully I can get some stuff done around the outside.  I for sure have to pull shoes off this week.  We also somehow wound up with another cat.  In a month I’ve gone from 0 to 4 and I’m just praying it stops there.  
In planning for sheep next year I’m starting to gather supplies for a fence and reading around these forums I’ve seen mention of high tensile fence and I’m wondering if that would be better than traditional pasture fence.  Most fences around here are pasture fence or barbed wire so high tensile is a new concept


----------



## Baymule (Oct 29, 2017)

I do not have high tensile wire, but as I understand it, it is best for interior fence and a good woven wire for exterior.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 14, 2017)

I would very much like to backhand the person who came up with daylight savings, as they have effectively ruined my after work schedule.  It has been crazy busy at work lately where we’ve been doing a lot of sow movement (imagine a game of musical chairs with 5000+ sows) so of course I’ve been getting home late, meaning by the time I get home there is no light to do anything.  I don’t know how those poor Alaska folks get anything accomplished in the winter.  But I did manage to finish moving my stove upstairs which is a blessing as apparently it’s supposed to snow on Friday.  We’re pretty much ready for winter there was just a couple more things I wanted to get done before I had to do it in the snow. 
I had an offer to put my horses on pasture with a friends horses but I had to unfortunately decline as they had their 4 horses out there as well and two are mares.  I don’t know what Bro’s deal is if he was proudcut or if it’s his proud Arab blood but he’s an absolute jerk to other geldings when he’s got some ladies to impress.  When I was wrangling in Colorado I had to put him separate because he’d fought with every horse in the paddock for some mare or another.  I didn’t want to be paying a Vet bill for my friends horse in the event he decided to tear someone up.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Nov 14, 2017)

Something tells me that ya'd rather have your work patners closeby, so ya can check on them yourself....you would sure miss them if they were out of sight and they certainly would be much happier with it being your hand feeding the oats, treats, and hay.....


----------



## Alaskan (Nov 14, 2017)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> I don’t know how those poor Alaska folks get anything accomplished in the winter.



all work is done in the summer with those 24hr days


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 14, 2017)

Touche 
I hear the Alaska summers are a trip with it staying light so late.  
And while I do like to keep an eye on my boys (especially Jack wheres he’s given me the colic scare) it is sort of nice to not have to buy feed for a month or two.  It’d be so nice to have some water rights to do some pasture at my place.  We have 5 acres but we only have 1.3 acres of water rights so watering a pasture is out of the question and we only average about 12 inches of rain a year.  Part of the glory of living in the desert I get 5 acres of good green grass for a few weeks of the year before it gets killed in the heat and plenty of sagebrush.  Is there anything that can live off sagebrush?  Besides the jack rabbits of course though I think I’ve thinned their numbers considerably from the porch.


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 14, 2017)

I was always kind of fond of venison from deer that had been feeding on sage.   Course I'm fond of pretty much any venison now that I think about it.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 14, 2017)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Touche
> I hear the Alaska summers are a trip with it staying light so late.
> And while I do like to keep an eye on my boys (especially Jack wheres he’s given me the colic scare) it is sort of nice to not have to buy feed for a month or two.  It’d be so nice to have some water rights to do some pasture at my place.  We have 5 acres but we only have 1.3 acres of water rights so watering a pasture is out of the question and we only average about 12 inches of rain a year.  Part of the glory of living in the desert I get 5 acres of good green grass for a few weeks of the year before it gets killed in the heat and plenty of sagebrush.  Is there anything that can live off sagebrush?


----------



## Baymule (Nov 14, 2017)

We get 34" of rain on a bad year, 68" on a extreme year, that usually means flooded creeks and rivers. I can't imagine water rights and being limited on the water you can use.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 14, 2017)

Wow that looks a lot like the grazing around here.  Cattle generally graze on the grass around the base of the sage brush, but it did bring to mind a paper I read a while back. Looking into it cattle can be trained to eat sagebrush but otherwise they’ll leave it be unless they have no other option, kinda like when they get to eating pine needles which isn’t good.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 14, 2017)

@Baymule i can’t imagine that much rainfall!  Around here water is worth more than land.  We get some flooding sometimes in the spring with the snow melt off the mountains but to have that much water falling on me I think I might panic and start building an ark.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 14, 2017)

This was a few miles from us.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 14, 2017)

Holy Cow!  That’s got more water flowing than our “mighty” Beaver River.  Course our rivers are like your streams


----------



## Baymule (Nov 15, 2017)

That was just a flash flood. We are high and dry, but there's a couple of low places between us and town that water goes over the road. It doesn't happen often, when it does, we just stay home!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 15, 2017)

They say the Beaver once almost went over the bridge 40 years ago.  That’s the closest we’ve been and it hasn’t even been in my lifetime so I’m not too worried.  The snow is another story though.  Weather report says we’re supposed to get our first real snow storm on Friday and I’m curious how much we’ll really get.  Seems like every year everyone in Utah has to relearn how to drive in the snow.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Nov 15, 2017)

It gets plum dangerous here if they even predict the possibility of a few flakes....after having spent a couple of years in Maine....most here just freakout if it just starts sticking and there'll be wrecks everywhere.....just absolutely crazy....


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 15, 2017)

I ustacould say I've never been in a snow related accident... That all changed this past spring   In the navy we had a saying... one awe $h*t wipes out a thousand attaboys... 40+ years of winter driving experience, guess it was a matter of time...


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 16, 2017)

That’s a very accurate saying.  I’ll have to ask my brother if they still use that one. 
On another note as I get things together for getting sheep next year I’ve had the nagging thought at the back of my mind to consider hair sheep.  I’ve only ever dealt with wool breeds and I’m not sure how hair breeds do in comparison.  But someone was saying they taste better than wool lamb and where I really enjoy lamb it’s really grabbed my interest.  And made me hungry for a doner kebab.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 16, 2017)

I have hair sheep. Just sent a 3 year old ram to slaughter and can't tell if from a 10 month old lamb.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 17, 2017)

That’s really impressive!
Well it’s finally here



It’s snowing pretty good.  This will be Dixie and the ducks’ first winter. Dixie was born in March in the house and stayed inside for the first 4 weeks so by the time she got outside it was all melted.  She and Kya have the doghouse though and are pretty content.  I’ve never seen Kya use her doghouse really she used to just hunker down under the camper trailer.  The ducks seem to really be enjoying the snow, they’re standing out in it jabbering away.  And I finally get to use my stove after moving it upstairs and it is a world of difference!  It’s almost too hot!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 17, 2017)

These two are old hands at this snow deal.  Both were born at high altitude and spent their first few years in pasture without even a lean-to.  Jack in fact was born in the snow at 8000 feet!


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Nov 17, 2017)

We got a bit of snow last year and the ducks went wild running around their yard eating the snow...crazy little things. That stove and the surround sure turned out really good....nice Job!!.....if it gets a bit warm just breathe the house a bit and open the front door some....no bugs will get in I promise...


----------



## Baymule (Nov 17, 2017)

It snowed here in 2015. It was gone in a few days. Your horses are pretty!


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 17, 2017)

Nothing better than a nice fire in the stove when it's blowing wet and cold outside. I set up a small fan at the base of my stove helps get more heat into the room so I can burn a little less and a bit smaller fire.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 18, 2017)

We used to use a fan to push the air upstairs when it was in the basement.  It does have a small blower fan in the back and that’s helpful.  It definitely keep us warmer though I put the stove in the middle of the house so all the main space stays plenty warm while the bedrooms get a little heat but still remain comfortable sleeping temperature (for me, my wife insists on keeping our room ridiculously hot for sleeping.
Today I got to live vicariously through my friends and help with their cow and heifer auction.  There’s something about hard work and smelling like cow excrement that makes one feel accomplished.  
Bay what kind of hair sheep do you have?  How do you like them?


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 19, 2017)

Not many would say they feel "better" or accomplished, smelling like cow excrement...    I like cows, but not the smell. I love the smell of horses (& hay together is like heaven)...


----------



## greybeard (Nov 19, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> Not many would say they feel "better" or accomplished, smelling like cow excrement...    I like cows, but not the smell. I love the smell of horses (& hay together is like heaven)...


An acquired 'experience' I guess, but once 'on your boots', hard to shake off for the rest of your life (been on mine since I was 8) and I sometimes forget that some here with a Texas location aren't really from Texas but you can always tell it immediately.

A little sage advice at  the end of this from someone that is.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Nov 19, 2017)

Having been a truck driver I can certainly attest that I had much rather be riding behind a cattle hauler, than one with pigs or chickens....and have slept beside them at truckstops, but have awakened and moved my truck away from a hog haulers to be able to sleep because of the smell. Cow pies have never been obnoxious to me and stepped in my very first at 8 or 9 yrs old myself....


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 19, 2017)

Something sad is that since I began running a pig farm I really can hardly notice they have a smell.  If it wasn’t for the fact that I can still track food pretty good I’d think my olfactory senses had died.  Boars are a different story though, they stink terribly.  I can only imagine what a bunch of chickens would smell like.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 19, 2017)

I have Dorper/Katahdin cross hair sheep. They are easy care, no shearing, no crutching!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 20, 2017)

That seems to be the popular cross, as that’s what I’ve found mostly in Utah.  The hard part is they’re all up north about 4 hours.  This year I’ll probably just end up getting what we call range sheep and start from there.  There are numerous amounts in this area and are readily had at decent pricing, with plenty of opportunities for cheap bum lambs in the spring.  I’ve thought about getting 4 or 5 of those and giving my kids some work, they can sell the whethers and keep what was gained on them and we can keep the ewes and breed them.  Maybe I’ll drop the money on a katahdin ram lamb and have my mom bring it down in her minivan when she comes to see her grandkids.  Do some crossbred until I can get some hair ewes.  I’m still trying to piece all that together, but by spring we’ll be ready.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 20, 2017)

We had lamb ribs tonight for supper. I roasted them in a big pot with cooking sherry, it made a yummy gravy for the garlic mashed potatoes.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 22, 2017)

Lamb sounds really good right now.  Guess it’s something to look forward to.  Maybe next year for thanksgiving.  I’m not a huge turkey fan honestly, and while visiting my parents this year we’ve decided to forgo the turkey this year and are instead going to do a brisket.  I’m sure the pilgrims would’ve done the same given the opportunity.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Nov 22, 2017)

I don't mind turkey, but my wife hates it....so, since we don't celebrate we are liable to eat most anything...when we lived in FL I would put some slabs of ribs on the grill and do BBQ...never had any complaints.....


----------



## Pastor Dave (Nov 22, 2017)

We are having my mom and sister over again this year, like most other years.
Mom's bringing pies and my sister is bringing cheese and cottage cheese. Those two things made it on every holiday dinner table Grandma set. They had a dairy and made those things back in the day, so it was a tradition.

We are making a Kentucky Legends ham, Rabbit casserole, corn cakes, mashed potatoes and rabbit gravy, a green bean dish that is awesome with tomatoe and bacon cooked in it, and of course rolls. I am pretty sure it will all be good.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 22, 2017)

That all sounds delicious!


----------



## Alaskan (Nov 23, 2017)

Pastor Dave said:


> We are having my mom and sister over again this year, like most other years.
> Mom's bringing pies and my sister is bringing cheese and cottage cheese. Those two things made it on every holiday dinner table Grandma set. They had a dairy and made those things back in the day, so it was a tradition.
> 
> We are making a Kentucky Legends ham, Rabbit casserole, corn cakes, mashed potatoes and rabbit gravy, a green bean dish that is awesome with tomatoe and bacon cooked in it, and of course rolls. I am pretty sure it will all be good.


that sounds like wonderful!


----------



## Baymule (Nov 23, 2017)

What is a Kentucky Legends ham? Brand name or method of cooking?


----------



## Pastor Dave (Nov 23, 2017)

@Baymule, it is a brand. It is real popular here in IN.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 24, 2017)

Well another successful thanksgiving has come and gone, sadly with some empty seats this year as my brothers have their duties with the Navy.  But we enjoyed good company and way too much good food.  I think brisket for thanksgiving was the best idea ever!  The dogs seemed to really agree as they chowed down on their own small cuts.  They get extra spoiled when we’re visiting my parents so they have no complaints. My neighbor is feeding the horses and ducks back at home while we’re away, another blessing of a rural community.  There are plenty of people who can help while we’re away and we’re not worried they’ll do something wrong and we can always return the favor.  I’m very grateful this year and I hope all of you had a great day of gratitude with the people you cherish most


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 11, 2017)

I haven’t updated in a while but I’m still alive I promise.  We had a packed holiday and I came home to plenty of work to get caught up on.  We weren’t even home 24 hours before we received news that my wife’s grandfather had passed away and we were loadin kids back into the car for a 5 hour ride to the in laws. I survived, barely.  My kids are terrible travelers and after just getting back from my parents they weren’t any happier to be back in the car than I was.  So now we’re back and I’m caught up on work, there’s a lot of work that comes with shipping so many sows right now and I’ve got so many farrowing it’s overly entertaining. The snow melted and it’s jusy cold now, I heated up a little trimming the horses and working on their corral.  Also found out that while we were gone we missed out on all the excitement.  My neighbor with sheep lost 5 to another neighbors German shepherd and Aussie, and the rest were so stressed that they aborted their lambs.  In the end she lost 5 ewes and 12 lambs, and those dogs are now confined to that property with a general consensus that they will be shot on sight.  I’ll be moving some things around now to place my sheep pen in front of the house, if nothing more than to give me a clearer shot should I ever need it.  It would also put my back 2.5 acres and my house plus all my neighbors property between those dogs and the future sheep.  Now I see why my house was built in the middle of my 5 acres.


----------



## greybeard (Dec 11, 2017)

Pastor Dave said:


> Mom's bringing pies


You can never go wrong with Pies!



Baymule said:


> What is a Kentucky Legends ham? Brand name or method of cooking?


This is the same hickory smoked ham I took to our Thanksgiving gathering as well. Walmart sells them.  It was among the best I've eaten and sliced thick, it was very presentable on a big platter. 

It, of course is now gone, with the last of it cooked in a pot of pinto beans, but I now have a sliced  half Ky Legends honey ham in the fridge for 'samiches'. Haven't tried it yet but I expect it to be just as good.

The Ky Legends name might just be a marketing ploy, but it was lots better than most of the processed boneless hams I've gotten in the past.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Dec 11, 2017)

Sorry for your loss HDC....doesn't make for a very enjoyable holiday. That is really sad about the neighbors sheep, but it did make ya aware of possible problems and allows for the planning of avoidance. I would sure feel the same about those dogs and would've issued the very same warning, too.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 11, 2017)

Yeah thing is it was their second offense. First time they ate their owners two lambs and a neighbors goat but the neighbors heeler was in on the kill so no calls to animal control.  This time animal control was called and the dogs owner had been asked several times to keep them locked up but because it’s the first time documented the dogs are allowed to come back.  
And thank you for the condolences he had a good long life and had been waiting to join his wife for 5 years.  He’ll be missed but we’re glad that he’s not suffering anymore


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 11, 2017)

Glad you had an enjoyable holiday... for the most part. Condolences for the loss, coupled with all the driving. You'd think people would learn... owning dogs that have already killed, once they taste blood, it's extremely rare that they WON'T kill again given the chance. Nice scene to come home to.  Sounds like you've got a plan so hopefully your sheep will be better protected against that possibility.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 11, 2017)

Yeah I couldn’t keep a dog like that.  When the neighbors heeler got in on that he got rid of the heeler same day.  A couple LGDs are out of the question for right now but my dogs are great for letting me know when anything is going on outside and I keep my .44 handy with a strong light


----------



## Baymule (Dec 11, 2017)

We put up a fence to keep our dogs IN and everybody else's OUT. Not to mention coyotes. Sorry about your loss, even when one has lived a full life, he will be missed.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jan 12, 2018)

So, how's things going over there @High Desert Cowboy ? Hope things are okay....haven't seen ya around in a bit, just wondering....


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 14, 2018)

Well it’s been a crazy month but I’m still alive, thanks for thinking of me.  With all our birthdays and Christmas and New Years and a thousand visits to relatives it’s qll been a little crazy.  Then after a week long battle with what turned out to be gout we’re finally getting back to working on our house and finishing up a few things outside.  It’s been a freak winter this year as we’ve been in the 50s most days which isn’t doing our snow pack any favors.  It’s gonna be a dry summer.
So hopefully with less happening I’ll be able to get on more.  hope everyone had a good holiday season


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jan 14, 2018)

Glad to hear ya are feeling better....and ya can have your winter weather back....it's been too Cold here for too Long....


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Jan 14, 2018)

Just read your journal. It's interesting to see pics from your area and hear about how different the stock is. That little rainfall is crazy! When we get a downpour here, our creeks swell out of their banks making it near impossible to do rotational grazing and our road floods. We've had to drive out through our hay field before as it has a culvert access to another road and deal with the ruts we left! 

Btw we live in Southern Indiana so completely different lay of the land here!


----------



## Baymule (Jan 14, 2018)

You sent us your winter, thank goodness you didn't send the snow. But it has been cold for this part of the country. Looks like the coming week will be the coldest yet. And we are scheduled to get snow and ice. 

I'd gladly send it back to you so you wouldn't have a dry summer!


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 14, 2018)

Good to hear things are going OK and that all is well. Sorry for your lack of moisture... That's the main reason I left Colorado and moved here to east TX. Lack of moisture & high cost of water. Course a little warmer weather was looked forward to as well. I am being thwarted with that this winter... Been plenty chilly here!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 15, 2018)

Sorry y’all are getting all our cold weather, we’d gladly take it back.  After double checking the snowpack levels we are up to 25% of normal.  That’s better than the 7% we had on the first.  But it’s not near enough.  Water here is always the big struggle it’s worth more than gold and drives the prices way up.  I’ve known guys to sell land at 14,000 bucks an acre just because it had water rights.  It also gets really ugly when someone catches their neighbor stealing their water turn for even a minute.  I don’t have worry too much about that because we only get 1.3 acres of water for our 5 acres and it comes from our 200+ ft deep well so no ones gonna swipe it from us.


----------



## Mini Horses (Jan 15, 2018)

Not in a water controlled area here in VA....plus have own 500+ foot well...so explain pls --



High Desert Cowboy said:


> we only get 1.3 acres of water for our 5 acres



what does that mean for you?  How is it monitored?  Geesh, I have mineral & water rights for my entire 14+ acres.  

We may have water use limits in some of the nearby cities if the lake levels drop (from which they draw their supply).  That will generally control washing cars, watering lawns, etc., for the city piped water.  But if they have a shallow well, no limit to do those things. 

OH -- I would GLADLY send you any snow from my place.  WISH you could have had the foot from 2 wks ago!!   I like to share.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 15, 2018)

like I said water is gold in fact it’s not uncommon to sell a house with property and sell the water rights separately.  Or tag on an extra $10,000 per acre share of water rights to the price of the property. What it means for me is that I can’t use all my property for pasture unless I choose to  purchase more water rights


----------



## Bruce (Jan 15, 2018)

Why would anyone buy dry land? Great love for sagebrush and lizards?


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 15, 2018)

To understand it at all, you'd have to review some 200 years of legal precedent regarding water wars and rights in the west. Out there, water IS very valuable and every drop is litigated and "owned" by someone somewhere. Even the rain that has yet to fall (surface water rights).


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 15, 2018)

Bruce while I do love my sagebrush the biggest draw for me was property out in the county where I could keep my animals.  And I’m right on 250,000+ acres of BLM land that I can ride and hunt, with my neighbors well spaced and all the land directly north and east of me devoted to cattle (and now sheep). More water would always be nice of course but there’s something about this wide open country with its sagebrush and cedar trees that just calls to me.  I might have to buy a little more hay for my critters and I only get a small window of grazing but the cattle bellowing to each other and the smell of rain on the sage make up for it.  This is as close to Gods country as you can get outside of Mancos Colorado


----------



## Mini Horses (Jan 15, 2018)

So, you can only utilize water, or irrigate, on 1.3 acres?   The other 3.7 are fenceable but not "waterable"?   Or not even fenceable to contain animals at all?  Does rainwater on your 5 acres, being absorbed, matter?      Can you not water on the 3.7 acres?  Garden?   If a feed bucket is on there, it catches rain, is there an issue?      I'm stumped.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 15, 2018)

So the 1.3 acres is just an easier way of saying X amount of gallons of water.  I can fence the whole area as I see fit and keep my animals but I can not effectively provide pasture for them.  I’m welcome to garden and I can store up to 2500 gallons of rainwater provided my collection system has been registered with the state.  Being a desert they like to know where all the water is going.  That 1.3 acres of water is what was decided as being sustainable by our aquifer.  Mind that aquifer is being shared by my neighbors out here and we all get an equal share.  If I go over my allotment I do get billed by the state and it’s not cheap.  I can understand your confusion if you’ve got lots of rainfall and abundant water sources.  I’ve always been blown away at how green things are back east, but then again I’ve spent the majority of my life in the western states and outside of two years in Spain I’ve never lived east of the Mississippi.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 16, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> all the land directly north and east of me devoted to cattle (and now sheep)


RANGE WAR!!!!! 

I understand the western concept of "owning water rights". I just can't imagine someone would buy land that had NO water rights. If one lived on a piece of property that gets as little rain as you do, they couldn't even flush a toilet!


----------



## Mini Horses (Jan 16, 2018)

Well, thanks. Your explanation helps me visualize.   I understand the mineral, water rights issues are deep.   But, I have never heard it expressed in he manner you did, so it peaked my questions.   Had you said you had "X" of gal you could use -- ok.     It is obvious that I am blessed to live in an area that has no such limits.

After purchase and when preping for well, I found that I sat on top of the major aquafer  in the area.  It was DEEP and cost to drill but, it's unlimited for use.   No one monitors me or my use.  The rain is mine, also    It is a gift and should never be otherwise, IMO.   We all have our beliefs.

Glad you have what you do -- sounds like an area of concerns.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 16, 2018)

@Mini Horses sorry for the confusion we talk about water here as acre shares and didn’t realize folks back east don’t necessarily use the same terms for water shares.  
@Bruce don’t worry the toilets flush fine my children prove that constantly.  Fortunately they haven’t learned things besides water disappear when they flush.  As for buying without water it’s not uncommon if people just want property to distance themselves from their neighbors or live out in the country.  For me like I said the location is great and another big draw was it was somewhere i could keep my horses and afford.  This is our first home and we managed to purchase it right out of college.  More water would be nice but to have that in this location would be more than I could afford even now.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 20, 2018)

Finally!  It started snowing early in the morning today and it’s set to snow into tomorrow morning.  We were getting nervous that it was never going to snow, as they kept saying it was going to come later and later (supposed to start yesterday afternoon) but I guess it was just letting me get home from my UPPA meeting. I haven’t been so excited to see snow since my first winter in Utah


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jan 20, 2018)

You are celebrating its arrival and we are celebrating its Departure..... 
It stayed above freezing last night for the first time in a long while....now dealing with the thawing ground....nice slick clay, but I ain't complaining....


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 20, 2018)

Thought about you the other night while looking at the weather channel. They were showing the snow cover moving in over Salt Lake city and talking about how much everyone as going to get. Glad you're finally getting some much needed moisture.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 21, 2018)

@High Desert Cowboy puts on his white nija suit at midnight and goes to the open land and starts rolling huge snowballs to his land......he works all night and by daylight has a snow mountain that will water his other 3 acres........more snow falls and covers his snowball trails......


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 21, 2018)




----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 22, 2018)

Hahaha that’s not a bad idea @Baymule.  The snow is all iced up now though and won’t pack well for snowballs it’s -2 out there.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Jan 22, 2018)

The snow here has been to dry for building a snowman the last two years. DD1 would love to build a real snowman but has had to settle for small ones that are just snow pushed into a small mound. 

You could always use a tractor with a FEL to push snow where you want it! Lol DH does that to open up our driveway when we get too much snow but it’s been a few years since he’s needed to do that.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 22, 2018)

Well not outside work but I finally got the kitchen done.  It used to be orange walls ugly faux wood cabinets and linoleum


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 22, 2018)

You have to proud of your work and I really do like that look.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 22, 2018)

Wow! It looks really good!


----------



## Bruce (Jan 23, 2018)

Oh come on, what is wrong with faux wood??
      


Glad you got that done, always nice to check something off the list.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jan 23, 2018)

That looks really Good HDC!!!.....
Ya did a great job on that and I really like the floor....Awesome!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Jan 23, 2018)

I'm a floor fan too!  It all looks great, but that floor just adds so much character to the rooom!


----------



## Bruce (Jan 23, 2018)

You can even tell where the wood was cupped


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 25, 2018)

Thanks all I’m just glad to be done with inside work for a minute.  Getting my tax return stuff all put together now so I can get to work building a corral for sheep. I’ve got a guy lined out for bum lambs come lambing season but if I can get enough together I was chatting with a guy who will sell me some pregnant Suffolk ewes for a reasonable price.  We’ll see how it all plays out but fingers crossed


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jan 25, 2018)

It is always good to find the "Market" so ya can know a direction and how many animals it will take to support it. Don't Suffolk have to be sheared? I don't know alot about sheep, but have always liked them....


----------



## Baymule (Jan 25, 2018)

I hope you can get the pregnant Suffolk ewes!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 25, 2018)

Suffolk do have to be sheared but incredibly most of the folks here run wool sheep and the nearest hair sheep I can find are pretty far away.  I’ve thought of getting wool sheep around here and arranging to have family up north bring me down a young Katahdin ram that I could use for some cross breeding, swap the ram every couple years and breed over to hair sheep over time.  Might take a while but it’s a little more cost effective for now


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jan 25, 2018)

Sounds like a winner to me....I just didn't know if their was a local market for the wool there....amongst the Native Americans, Mormons, and homesteaders out that way. When we lived in Maine....'64-'66...there was an older man there that had sheep and I would go and help him with them....there was a market then for wool in this country and I always thought it would be nice to raise them for wool and meat. However, when I got to researching it before we started doing what we are doing, I found out that there essentially wasn't a market for wool much anymore and in this area sheep are few and far between even for a meat supply to a market. So, I decided to get some goats instead and then I found out there isn't a vet in the whole area that really handles goats or sheep. There are some that will if they are brought to their office, but they don't test or vaccinate, so what good is that?
That really set my plans back and have been interested in how to supply a market that really doesn't exist....so, I've decided that if we do stay here I will have a small herd of meat goats and approach the Hispanic community here. We have a few that we are friendly with and word of mouth can go a long way...we are just looking for a purpose to do something, not really pay bills or make anything....if that was the purpose we'd raise pigs or cows in this locale....


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 25, 2018)

Starting with ready made herd expansion seem like a good plan to me. I'd go for the bred ewes... You can add a few bummers if the opportunity presents. But if you go all that way, you'll be a year before you'll have lambs of your own. Hope it all comes together for you.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 26, 2018)

I started to post that there is probably hair sheep farms all over your state but went and checked the main registry and saw there was only one listed.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 26, 2018)

CntryBoy777 said:


> That really set my plans back and have been interested in how to supply a market that really doesn't exist


Yep, gotta make your own market. Goat meat is big in African and Middle Eastern countries, got any of those populations around?


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jan 26, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Yep, gotta make your own market. Goat meat is big in African and Middle Eastern countries, got any of those populations around?


Not many in these "Sticks" down this way.....


----------



## Bruce (Jan 26, 2018)

Bummer


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 27, 2018)

@Mike CHS were those sheep up in Farr West perchance?  I’m amazed that no one around here runs hair sheep, especially where just a little south of is traditionally sheep country.  The mountains are full of larkspur (more so back in the day) so while cattle grazing was out of the question sheep did great up there.  But those are mostly what we call range sheep, a mix of wool breeds, a lot of hamp influence if I’m not mistaken.  The more I’ve read on the hair sheep the more I like that option, but I rather wouldn’t drive all day to get them when I have so many options close to home.  But a katahdin ram lamb would fit in my moms minivan on a trip to see her grandkids without much difficulty.  Probably a lot easier than the time my uncle had to take his kids show lambs in the back of his old Geo metro convertible


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Jan 27, 2018)

Geo metro convertible!


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 27, 2018)

The Katahdin farm that I saw was in Logan.  I know there are more because I have met people at various functions from Utah but didn't keep their contact info since at the time I had no need.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 27, 2018)

The listing I saw was in Logan.  I know there are others since I've met folks from Utah but didn't keep any contact info since there was no reason at the time.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 27, 2018)

I just did a quick search on Facebook for "Katahdin Utah" and got quite a few hits.  There are numerous pages that I'm on like Katahdin Sheep Producers to name one that is pretty active.  There are a lot of buy and sale posts.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 27, 2018)

Really?  I knew all sorts of folks in Logan while I was going to school up there and never did meet anyone who raised hair sheep.  Course most of the folks I knew were horse and cattle people.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 27, 2018)

A mini van? Oh come on, I'm sure she has plenty of room for a few ewes too!


----------



## Bruce (Jan 27, 2018)

What @Baymule said! They won't be as likely to want to move around if you pack them in a little.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 27, 2018)

Not sure how she’d feel about multiples.  A young ram lamb will fit in a large dog crate.  From here to Logan is about 4.5-5 hrs going 85 the whole way (gotta love I-15).  If I went it’d be in my 93 Chevy 1 ton dually and with it being geared to tow I’d probably average about 60mph the whole way, making that a very, very long day.  I love my old IDI diesel and I know it’ll haul just about anything, it’s just not going to do it very fast.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 29, 2018)

So I’m trying to figure out the best place to put a sheep corral. The house faces north with a garage and tack shed to the south.  The property line is in green.  Current fencing is in yellow, the small one just north is for ducks and to the south is the horses.  Blue is where I’ve though of putting it, but my wife complains that in front of the house looks bad.  My other option is the white in back, shifting around the horse corral so they’re side by side.  There’s no one to the north besides cattle and sheep, but just south of me is my neighbor with those two killer dogs and behind that is BLM with plenty of coyotes.  But it’s closer to the garage where I can put lambing ewes if needs be. Of course the marks aren’t really to scale, but the best I can do with a smartphone and a big finger.  I really wish when they built this place he hadn’t put it smack in the middle I feel like with the DWs reasoning I essentially lose half the property


----------



## Bruce (Jan 29, 2018)

Nothing against DW's esthetic opinion of course, but if I had to look out on that barren landscape, I wouldn't at all mind seeing livestock out there  

Esthetics aside, I would imagine being even a small distance farther from the neighbor's dogs and the BLM coyotes couldn't hurt. Is there any question related to ease of watering the stock in the north vs the south? Would you need to bury a water line where you might already have one for the horses to the south? And if you do need to move them to the south for lambing (or other reasons), would you be putting in a fenced lane?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 29, 2018)

With water there’s a spigot on the north side by the ducks, on the south side of the house and a frost free just south of my tack shed, farthest to the south.  Putting in a lane could prove complicated.  I liked the idea of more space between livestock and those dogs, also I didn’t want them so close to my dogs just north of the garage because that would probably drive them batty having sheep that close and not being able to get to them.  Probably if I ever moved them south from the north I’d put a catch pen between the tack shed and garage and move them with some help to there.  I really wish my neighbors hadn’t  bought that lot behind me, it really throws everything off.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 29, 2018)

Yep, neighbors can sometimes be a pain, even when you have a 10 acre lot. It isn't your neighbors who are the problem but the dogs they chose to get, right? That and apparently they don't seem to think they have an obligation to keep their dogs on their property??


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 29, 2018)

The neighbors really aren’t too bad and I wouldn’t even mind the dogs if they didn’t kill livestock.  I love dogs, my moms a dog groomer so we grew up with all sorts of dogs running around and I’ll probably have dogs until I die, but I will not abide a livestock killer.  Jackrabbits are fine, the cat incident of 2016 was an unfortunate accident, but killing livestock is a sure way to get rehomed or put down.


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 29, 2018)

I have to agree with Bruce... seems like a horrendous waste to leave the entire "front yard" unoccupied and just desert foliage. If nothing else, maybe fence the entire area and make it for the horses. Everyone likes watching horses, right? I mean, front yard or not, you don't plan on putting in a golf course lawn/fairway or anything... How could you afford to water it?   Hope you'll let us know how it all works out.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 29, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> just desert foliage


I think you are being generous @Latestarter, I don't see a lot of foliage there


----------



## Baymule (Jan 29, 2018)

I love having my sheep close to the house. Our house sits 100 yards from the road, the driveway is fenced with a pasture on either side. The garden is in front of the house too. DH always wants the front to look good to people passing by, while I don't care about people passing by. They don't live here, I do. Heck, I even had pigs in a front pasture, 3 times!


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Jan 29, 2018)

My front yard is a 11 acre pasture... doesn’t bother me.


----------



## Pastor Dave (Jan 29, 2018)

My front yard is blocked from the road by a big church. The back acre is hay field. Sometimes I wish the front was too, but then I wouldn't be back here, and the house wouldn't be a parsonage.


----------



## greybeard (Jan 30, 2018)

Bruce said:


> I think you are being generous @Latestarter, I don't see a lot of foliage there


Aerial photography can be very misleading. If you looked at a google earth photo of my place in August or right now, other than the trees, it would appear there is no grass on it either, just as it would right now. Just because it isn't green doesn't mean livestock doesn't thrive there.

From Pg one of High Desert Cowboy's journal:











I lived in San Angelo in West Texas for many years, out in the semi arid Concho Valley. That's prime sheep and goat country. Looks a lot like High Desert Cowboy's country. San Angelo, before the wool and mohair moved overseas was known as the Wool and Sheep capital of the world. There were once a million Angoras within 150 mile radius of dry and dusty San Angelo.
https://www.barrypopik.com/index.ph...ool_capital_of_the_world_san_angelo_nickname/

http://woolful.com/woolspiration-miss-wool-of-america/
Not a desert in San Angelo, but pretty close to it. If not for the mesquite on my cousin's place near San Angelo, you wouldn't think anything could survive but they do very well with both cattle and sheep. He doesn't even feed hay in winter...they'll find enough to make it thru winter on their own with just a little supplement of lick tubs and maybe a few range cubes/week. Took this picture myself late last summer when brother and I were out there.



 

My place in Aug 2017:




Maybe it's the difference between working ranches and hobby/backyard farms?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 5, 2018)

So we’re at a holding point for a minute on getting sheep.  My wife has been having some really strange health issues lately (numbness on one side, facial numbness, lots of headaches) and had to go in for an MRI on Saturday.  Hopefully it’s nothing but they’re talking clot or tumor or MS which if such is the case my sheep fund will swiftly become a hospital fund.  we’re praying it’s none of the above and it’s just some pinched nerves or something that will pass shortly.


----------



## Mike CHS (Feb 5, 2018)

I hope this turns out to be nothing serious.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Feb 5, 2018)

Yikes! Prayers!!


----------



## Bruce (Feb 5, 2018)

Oh my!!!! I'm not "like"ing THAT post! I sure hope it turns out to be something easily fixed. Just too scary.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Feb 5, 2018)

That is just awful HDC....will surely be praying for a good outcome and speedy recovery from whatever it may be....


----------



## Baymule (Feb 5, 2018)




----------



## Latestarter (Feb 5, 2018)

So sorry that your wife is having health issues. Sounds like not good symptoms... hope it turns out to be nothing major and easily dealt with.


----------



## greybeard (Feb 6, 2018)

Prayers that your wife's health issues are quickly and easily corrected.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 6, 2018)

So went to the doctors today.  Got good news, great news, but no answers.  The good news is the MRI, CT scans, and EKG all cane back clean.  So while that rules out MS, tumors, or strokes we still have no idea why she’s experiencing numbness and weakness on one side (there’s days she cant hold a pen).  But it’s not life threatening so we’ll take that as a win and I need to take her to a nerve specialist a couple hours away.  They’re thinking maybe she’s somehow pinched a nerve bundle or something.  As for the headaches, apparently that can be from an increase in blood supply that comes from....Pregnancy!  So overall it’s all good news compared to what they were thinking


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Feb 6, 2018)

Boy!!....That is Great News!!....and guess Congrats on the future little Cowboy/Cowgirl there on the High Desert!!....


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Feb 6, 2018)

Glad you got some answers and congrats on the new little human on the way!


----------



## BoboFarm (Feb 6, 2018)

Great news and congrats!


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Feb 6, 2018)

So glad it’s none of the bad options!!! Congrats on the news of an addition!!


----------



## Baymule (Feb 6, 2018)

Great news! And congrats on the baby!


----------



## Latestarter (Feb 7, 2018)

WOW, great news all around it seems  Nothing serious (or inherently deadly), and a new branch for your family tree! Congrats!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 10, 2018)

It’s snowing!  Not real hard mind you but I’ll take what I can get.  And the ducks are happy as can be


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Feb 10, 2018)

Sure glad for ya....ours like to run around eating the snow. We've had rain all nite and day here...poured 3" out of the gauge around 12:30 and it is still falling here....our ducks are swimming in the field having a Blast!!....


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 16, 2018)

Well it’s been a busy day.  Picked up most of the posts for our future sheep corral today.  A rancher friend replaced his heifer pen with steel posts like we did his horse corral and lots of the posts were still in good shape so he gifted them to me for all my help.  What I can’t use as posts will make great firewood.

Also got a deal started for some yearling lambs.  A friend got some bottle fed lambs last year for his kids to learn some life skills (getting a loan, responsibility in raising animals, marketing said animals to repay the loan, etc) and they’ve been looking to get them sold.  It’s a ewe and ram and there’s a possibility the ewes pregnant.  So I asked him what he wanted for them (the kid is 8) and he’ll get back to me with some pricing.  He was actually looking up market values on the computer when I left!  I had the same plan for my boy this year, and I’ll still probably wind up with some bottle lambs for him this year but we are making progress towards having sheep


----------



## Baymule (Feb 16, 2018)

It sounds like you might be in the sheep business soon!


----------



## Bruce (Feb 17, 2018)

And you can sell your bottle babies to your friend, turnabout is fair play


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 23, 2018)

So there I was all set to start putting up new corrals, and it dumps snow.  Today it’s snowing again.  Supposed to snow again Tuesday.  I’m grateful I really am, but the timing was terrible. 
Good news is we are now at 40% of normal.  It’s been the driest winter in 30 years, and it’s really sad to compare current snow pack to what it was this time last year, 148% of normal.  It would take several weeks of snow to get where we need to be, but every little bit helps and until this is done I probably won’t be building any penning.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Feb 23, 2018)

Too bad ya didn't decide to do it a couple of months ago......It always seems to work like that for me too...sure glad ya got some moisture ya was needing....


----------



## Bruce (Feb 23, 2018)

Take it when you get it @High Desert Cowboy, 40% is still way too low.


----------



## Latestarter (Feb 23, 2018)

Never mind about inconvenience (trust me, that and fencing are my two go-to words), better to have water to drink later this coming summer.  Glad you're getting much needed moisture. Sorry it isn't happening at the best time for you.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 27, 2018)

We do need the moisture.  If it doesn’t snow between now and next week I may be able to get my corrals up.  After the snow it kinda warmed back up enough that a tractor wouldn’t have a problem augering out a post hole.  I wouldn’t have a problem with a set of post hole diggers probably but why do the extra work when I got friends with tractors?  I’d start this afternoon with how nice it is but I gotta head to the airport to catch a flight to Missouri.  Pork forum for 3 days and then catching up on my chores when I get back will push it to next week, but we’re getting there.  Slowly.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Feb 27, 2018)

Hope ya have an enjoyable trip....and I'm sure the fine folks in MO will share some water with ya if ya wish to take some back home.....


----------



## Baymule (Feb 27, 2018)

We have a hand held gas auger that we have sure gotten our money's worth with all the fence building we have done.


----------



## Bruce (Feb 27, 2018)

CntryBoy777 said:


> Hope ya have an enjoyable trip....and I'm sure the fine folks in MO will share some water with ya if ya wish to take some back home.....


I don't think 3.4 ounces will do him much good.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Feb 27, 2018)

That's for carry-on not checked baggage @Bruce .....


----------



## Bruce (Feb 28, 2018)

Oh, right. He can carry a few thousand gallons in his checked baggage. That would be heavy though, he better get the dehydrated water.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 7, 2018)

Well I didn’t pack any water back with me, but we did get 6 inches of snow which was great.  Set to rain late this week and it’s gonna start getting warmer, so I should be able to start corrals soon.  Also, the ducks finally started earning their keep.  They were supposed to start October or maybe early November, but I never saw any eggs and a lamp out to the ducks wasn’t possible, but yesterday we found one and today we found 5!


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Mar 7, 2018)

Glad the ducks started laying for ya....and ya got some moisture too!!....so, how was the trip?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 7, 2018)

Really good thanks!  I spent most of it in meetings, but the pork market is doing well and there’s some good changes coming in the pork industry.   Special thanks to all the fine folk who buy pork products to support your local pig farmers, it’s much appreciated


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Mar 7, 2018)

Have you had duck eggs before? Can you let us know what you think of them? Trying to convince DH we need some Khakis! Lol


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Mar 7, 2018)

I can sure tell ya...they're really good....fried or boiled it is very comparable to a chicken egg....tho the yolk is smoother and creamier....where they shine is in baked goods. Also, the duck egg is more alkaline based and the chicken is acid based. Many people allergic to chicken eggs can eat duck eggs without any problem.....


----------



## Bruce (Mar 8, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Special thanks to all the fine folk who buy pork products to support your local pig farmers, it’s much appreciated


I would buy more if my family would eat it


----------



## Latestarter (Mar 8, 2018)

Rib eyes are my go to meat, but after that it's pork, pork and more pork! Then the occasional poultry... and fish last (I like saltwater pelagics and they are hard to come by here and when available are very expensive). Glad you had a good trip, glad you have moisture and eggs. Life is good! I wasn't "impressed" with duck eggs to eat fried... The yolk was a different consistency and the white was "tougher" than chicken egg. I'd eat them if I didn't have chicken eggs available. But they worked great in baking!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 8, 2018)

No worries I appreciate you anyway Bruce!  Latestarter I’m glad you’ve got your priorities straight, I too enjoy a good steak but pork for everything else.  But what’s a pelagic?  That’s not a term I’m familiar with


----------



## Baymule (Mar 8, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> But what’s a pelagic?  That’s not a term I’m familiar with



A quadriplegic fish?


----------



## Latestarter (Mar 8, 2018)

Pelagic fish are large, open salt water, long range fish like sword fish, tuna, bill fish, mahi mahi, etc. I was brought up fishing fresh water streams for trout, pickerel, pike, etc and they were too soft, too bony, and I just didn't care for them. Love to fish, but I like firm fish with no bones that cooks (grills) like a steak.


----------



## Baymule (Mar 10, 2018)

I am a big fan of boneless fillets..... My grandmother used to pan fry perch, fins and all, then caution me about the bones. The little things were practically ALL bones!


----------



## Bruce (Mar 12, 2018)

Got lake perch during the winter (bought, not caught by me) a couple of years ago. Let's just say DW has "suggested" I NEVER buy it again.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 5, 2018)

And we’re back!  Sorry folks it’s been a crazy crazy month!  Between shipping out all of my pigs and cleaning my barns and my wife’s health problems I haven’t had time to do anything!  But now I’m getting new pigs in and my wife’s health is better (I won’t say great, this pregnancy is really hard on her) I have a moment to get some things done.  I finally started on my corrals, I’ll be finishing the horses part first before I get to sheep.  I changed my layout entirely from what I initially planned but it should work a lot better.  We had a near miss with the ducks last week, one got out (son didn’t close the gate up) and got attacked by something (we’re guessing my neighbors corgi) and had a gnarly hole where her neck meets her wing.  But that’s healing up nicely and she showed no real problems beyond a gaping hole and some ruffled feathers.  I’ve got one ewe at my friends house now, he sent the ram to freezer camp after he started to get aggressive and I really don’t blame him, he saved me buying a pita.  So we’re trucking along and I’m still here, and hopefully it all gets better from here


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Apr 5, 2018)

Good to hear from ya!!.....sorry things have been a bit rough on ya, but glad they are settling down some. Did Jake get over his problem okay?....sure glad the runner is healing up nicely, too....


----------



## Latestarter (Apr 5, 2018)

Best wishes for no further complications for the wife with the pregnancy.  Sorry she's having a rough go of it. You know it's all your fault of course, right?  Sorry about losing the ram, but nobody needs an aggressive animal to deal with, especially with kids. Glad you're catching a breather to get some work done.


----------



## Mike CHS (Apr 5, 2018)

I'm really glad things are looking up.  Sometimes it all seems to be a real test.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 5, 2018)

Hope things get better for your wife. Rough pregnancies are no fun!


----------



## Baymule (Apr 5, 2018)

How many pigs are you getting and what breed?

Pregnancy is not easy even when there are no problems. I hope your wife does better with the rest of her time. Nothing like a new born to make all that go away. Funny, we forget about all that stuff and just love the baby.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 6, 2018)

When it’s all said and done I’ll have about 5000+ sows, mostly largewhite/landrace crosses with some purebred large white.  Usually about double that in piglets at any given time, our first gilts are set to farrow Sunday but I’ll probably see some this evening or tomorrow


----------



## Bruce (Apr 6, 2018)

That is a LOT of piggies!


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 6, 2018)

X2


----------



## greybeard (Apr 6, 2018)

I expect pork prices to drop in the next few weeks/months due to the new tariffs on certain exports.  There was already a global pork glut from last year, so I sure don't expect domestic prices to hold steady or increase. Ground soybean prices may tank as well.

In a few months tho, as domestic pork production decreases, the price/100wt will naturally go up, so by August, things may be looking better for US pork producers.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 6, 2018)

So how many sows do you have now? Is this your full time job or are you working off farm to get your hog raising going?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 6, 2018)

As of this minute I have about 2000. 600 more coming tomorrow.  This is my full time job I run a 5000+ sow farm and raise piglets to wean age (about 28 days).  The choice gilts will go on to be replacement breeding sows and the barrows and other gilts will go to a nursery, finisher, and then to processing.  And your correct @greybeard this tariff war is not going to do the pork industry any favors in the short run, but we certainly won’t be the only ones, farmers as a whole are going to suffer.  From what I’ve been reading though it’s the soybean farmers who are really going to be hurting in all of this.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 7, 2018)

Do you keep them in a barn over a lagoon or are they pastured or dirt hogs?

My pig experience is 2-3 feeder pigs a year. I am more that happy to support breeders, I just don't want to be a hog breeder. The breeds I've had so far are Large Black/Berkshire cross, Red Wattle, mixed breed of unknown origin, and currently I have 2 Hereford hogs.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 7, 2018)

They are in barns with a lagoon.  There are 4 1/2 barns, 1 for breeding, 1 1/2 for gestation, and two for farrowing.  All of these barns have a pit with water that are connected by pipes to a main lagoon. I’ve never had an opportunity to deal with red wattles or Herefords.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 7, 2018)

I was very happy with the Red Wattles, they took a little longer to grow off than commercial breeds. I believe it is important to keep the heritage breeds alive, so those gene pools are not lost.  I am happy to buy from breeders of heritage hogs. I wanted Herefords every since I first read about them and I got 2 this year from a breeder that raises registered Herefords (mine aren't registered).

The Red Wattle hogs were the only ones that didn't give me the creep factor. I never felt uneasy with them. The Large Black/Berkshires always tried to bite, so I carried a pipe when I had to go in the pen. Now I have a Pig Palace, a 3 sided shelter that I can feed from the outside, and a water barrel with a hog nipple. 

Do you raise the piglets up to slaughter size or sell as weaners?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 7, 2018)

All piglets are sold to nurseries as weaners.  About 28 days of age is the goal.  It really helps ADGs in the long run as there is less stress at weaning.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 7, 2018)

What is ADGs?


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Apr 7, 2018)

Average Daily Gain?


----------



## Baymule (Apr 7, 2018)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Average Daily Gain?


Makes sense to me!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 7, 2018)

Average daily gains.  How much weight the animal gains each day as it grows.  A sows lactation peaks at 15 days or so, meaning she’s still producing milk, but not in sufficient quantity to sustain an older, larger piglet.  This essentially forces them to start looking for other food, ie creep feed.  I like providing it at 12 days so that they have time to play with and familiarize themselves with it, making for an easier transition.  At 28 days they’ve had over two weeks to adjust, so the wean process isn’t as stressful, because while they do change location they’re already familiar with solid food nd water nipples and really don’t need mom. Without that stress delay they can really grow, and thats helping your average daily gain or ADG.  
Sorry a long winded answer, but I always get asked why we hold on to piglets until 28 days as opposed to 21 or even 17.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 7, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Sorry a long winded answer, but I always get asked why we hold on to piglets until 28 days as opposed to 21 or even 17.



17 days, wow that is young. It sounds like to me that you are putting the welfare of the animal first, which results in an healthier weaner piglet. Good for you.


----------



## Bruce (Apr 8, 2018)

Good info, especially that 15 day max output thing. @luvmypets might be interested in that as her Mangalista sow had 11 about a week ago.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 8, 2018)

That might vary with heritage hogs vs commercial hogs...


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 9, 2018)

I swear every time I make any progress on my fencing something comes up.  Friend of mine called, has to drive some cattle a few miles to the corrals for shipping (really twist my arm huh).  So I had to take the evening getting jack ready for a cattle drive Friday.  He’s really not a bad horse to shoe, he’s a lot better about it than Bro, but we’ve also had enough “conversations” to have a mutual understanding.  I’m gonna put those shoes on, and he’s gonna stand there and let me do it.  I’ll tell y’all one thing, whether a man is on a horse or under him, thats about as close to heaven on earth as you can get


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 13, 2018)

Drive successful!  I had a great time but while I was out apparently the neighbors pup got ahold of two of the ducks and not sure which ones they are. My wife called to tell me but she’s to squeamish to get up close and see who it is but the neighbor tied his dogs up and I’ll have to deal with it when I get home.  We’ll figure it out


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 13, 2018)

Margaret and Agatha are the unlucky females.  After lookaing high and low I found Chauncey and Mary hiding out, and the other two were fine.  Chauncey looks pretty rough, but I think if he makes it through the night we’ll be all right.  Talked to my neighbor, he was really sorry and had his pups locked up.  I told him I get it but He’s gonna have to pay for my girls and if it happens again I will not be as understanding. Tomorrow if all goes well I can get my fence done and we’ll get some sheep


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 13, 2018)

Chauncey pulls through the night! Sorry that you had to deal with this too and
that your wife had to even think about something else difficult/yucky during this pregnancy.


----------



## Latestarter (Apr 13, 2018)

See? Now that will teach you to go have fun driving cows! You should stay home and miss out on all that good fresh air! That way your ducks can be safe too   Hope they both pull through OK.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 13, 2018)

I like the view! Best view in the world......looking through horses ears.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 14, 2018)

Well he didn’t make the night.  So now I’m down to three ducks.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 14, 2018)




----------



## Latestarter (Apr 14, 2018)

Well damn...  Sorry to hear. Do you have any fertile eggs you can incubate to perhaps replace him from?


----------



## Bruce (Apr 14, 2018)

Sorry about the birds. Yep, time to finish that fence and get a good hot wire running over the top. The neighbor's dogs will think twice after the first jolt.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 15, 2018)

I gave my last batch to a friend to eat wasn’t planning on replacing any this year.  Go figure
He’s agreed to replace them though


----------



## Latestarter (Apr 15, 2018)

Yeah... luck seems to work that way sometimes. Can't always have serendipity... Would make life boring. Least you can get them replaced. Nice to have a neighbor who takes responsibility for his errors. Glad he's gonna make it right for you.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 15, 2018)

That sucks. At least the neighbor is replacing them. He needs to keep his dog up or it might get a bad case of lead poisoning.


----------



## greybeard (Apr 16, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Well he didn’t make the night.  So now I’m down to three ducks.


I had a dozen new dropped ducklings come pouring out of the woods today, across my long drive and into the yard. some went under the house till the cat spied them. 
I'll be surprised if even 1-2 make it to the pond over the next 24 hrs. 
Mother Nature is a sometimes a mean old momma and  can be an absolutely cruel mistress..


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 16, 2018)

Well decision time.  I have an opportunity to get two skinny ewes with their lambs for a reasonable price, or get a skinny ewe and a ram.  Add those to my yearling ewe I can either have 5 sheep or 3.  Not sure which to go with, putting it all to pencil and trying to think this all out reasonably.


----------



## Latestarter (Apr 16, 2018)

Good luck whichever way you choose to proceed.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 17, 2018)

Are the lambs ewe or ram lambs? Ewe lambs would grow your flock rather quickly.


----------



## Mike CHS (Apr 17, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Are the lambs ewe or ram lambs? Ewe lambs would grow your flock rather quickly.



Sex of the lambs makes all of the difference in your choice.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 18, 2018)

X2 to what Bay & Mike said


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 18, 2018)

So the day has finally come!  Got these 2 ewes and the dark little ram (not sure on his breed but he was priced right and my wife was in love). One ewe and the ram are yearlings and I have another yearling ewe coming in a couple day!  My three year old daughter is in love


----------



## Baymule (Apr 18, 2018)

Congrats on the sheep! The ram is a cutie. The ewes are a bit skinny, but I bet you know what to do about that. A little care, good feed and hay and they'll be looking good! What breed are they?

Can't resist a 3 year old. Our 3 year old grand daughter likes pink, so just build a chicken coop and let her paint it Pepto Bismol pink. I don't even like pink, but I sure painted a lot of pink! LOL


----------



## Latestarter (Apr 18, 2018)

Keeping the women in your life happy is a really good thing! Age not to be considered...  Grats!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 18, 2018)

Yeah they’re a bit skinny but thats what good feed is for.  All the ewes are what we call range sheep, usually some sort of hamp/Suffolk cross.  That’s actiall why these girls are a little skinny is they’ve been on winter range and just barely got brought in.  The ram I have no clue on what breed he is, like I said my wife was in love and I thought he’d probably a good one to breed those yearlings to.  If anyone knows what he is I’d be interested to know, I’m thinking he’s some sort of hairxwool cross.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 20, 2018)

We got random snow this morning that is pretty much melted now.  But it still lead to some fun feeding my friends cows


----------



## Latestarter (Apr 20, 2018)

More water for the ground! Life is good.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 20, 2018)

Yeah we’ve hit the point where any sort of moisture is welcome, rain or snow


----------



## Baymule (Apr 20, 2018)

I am glad that I live where snow comes around every 3 years or so. It's fun, by the time it is a PITA, it is melted and gone. 

If the moisture helps your land, then I am glad for you that it snowed.


----------



## greybeard (Apr 21, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> As of this minute I have about 2000. 600 more coming tomorrow.  This is my full time job I run a 5000+ sow farm and raise piglets to wean age (about 28 days).  The choice gilts will go on to be replacement breeding sows and the barrows and other gilts will go to a nursery, finisher, and then to processing.  And your correct @greybeard this tariff war is not going to do the pork industry any favors in the short run, but we certainly won’t be the only ones, farmers as a whole are going to suffer.  From what I’ve been reading though it’s the soybean farmers who are really going to be hurting in all of this.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 23, 2018)

Shaun is a photogenic little beggar I’ll give him that.  The oldest ewe is a little ornery, she won’t let me get near her and she acts like she’s fought a few dogs before, she stomped at my neighbors Aussie (he’s a big softie) and he took off running.  She tried the same with Dixie and received an education.  The younger ewe is still a little skittish and my youngest was a bottle baby so she’s pretty relaxed.  My daughter is still madly in love


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 3, 2018)

So I haven’t picked up my yearling ewe from my friends place as I wanted to keep her separate from these guys until I was sure everyone was healthy (Shaun and them came from an auction load, you can never be too cautious.). She decided to give us all a surprise last night and lambed twins!  We didn’t even think she was pregnant, she’d only been with the ornery bottle ram, and we didn’t think he could breed.  We had banded him as a new lamb but after a few days the band broke and we were worried about cutting him because of the flies.  We (incorrectly) assumed that couple days had done enough to essentially leave him an intact whether, and his testicles always seemed small as he’s grown.  So that’s a happy little surprise for us, I’ll get some pictures later today


----------



## Wehner Homestead (May 3, 2018)

Your flock is growing by leaps and bounds this year!!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 3, 2018)

One ewe lamb and one ram.  The ram walks funny, like he’s tip toeing on his front feet I’ve never seen something like that before


----------



## Wehner Homestead (May 3, 2018)

May not be relative, but might be...I've had goats do this before. They outgrew it. Almost like they were out of room so bent awkwardly for a bit before delivery. 

I have done like physical therapy where you stretch them out gently to a natural position and hold for 2-3 secs several times a day. We also found Bo-Se to help on a few (don’t know if BoSe is given to sheep or not...) Some we didn’t do anything and they did fine. I’m not sure that the ones wouldn’t have done fine without intervention though.


----------



## Baymule (May 3, 2018)

Cute lambs and congrats! You are a Lammy Grand Pappy! 

Ram lambs can breed at an early age. I thought I had it under control until I saw a 3 month old ram lamb after the ewes. I weaned right after that, hope it wasn't too late. For some stupid reason I decided to leave the ram lambs intact this time. It sure makes it a bigger PITA to keep them all separate. Much easier to wean ewe and wether lambs together.

I usually cut mine at an early age and name them all Dinner.


----------



## Mike CHS (May 4, 2018)

We left ours intact this year also but most are going to the sale next Friday.  Growth rates are pretty awesome also.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 6, 2018)

Well after a couple of days Lambert’s feet have straightened out.  I’ve banded their tails but my friend requested I leave Lambert intact as he got more bottle lambs this year and is interested in breeding some of the ewes next year.  I figured why not it’s worth a shot.


----------



## Baymule (May 6, 2018)

Just make sure you wean him by 3 months old.....these little sneaks can get down to business sooner than you think!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 12, 2018)

Those little buggers sure grow fast!  The two lambs (my kids named them Lambert and Dotty) spend their days running all over and playing and go seek in the sage brush.  Also  I noticed when I got them that the oldest ewe (Ma) seemed like she had a little bit of a bag on her, but I figured maybe sheep are like people and things just start to sag after a few lambs.  In the last week she’s gotten quite the belly and that bag has doubled in size!  So I’m keeping an extra close eye on her as there’s a pretty good chance she’s pregnant.


----------



## greybeard (May 12, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> The ram walks funny, like he’s tip toeing on his front feet I’ve never seen something like that before


Contracted flexor tendons?

Sometimes happens with calves and in extreme cases, they walk on their fetlock and sometimes need surgery, but in most milder cases, it corrects itself in a few days to a couple of weeks. 
They look like this most of the time:



 

This would be a severe case that needed surgery to correct:


 

I assume any 4 legged animal can have the same or similar problem.


----------



## Baymule (May 13, 2018)

Good post @greybeard. It seems I get an education every time I open this site. My husband marvels at the knowledge stashed in my head....... 

HDC is looks like you are going to be a Lammy Grandpa again!


----------



## greybeard (May 13, 2018)

The Merck Vet manual is available for free download, and will have answers for most problems:
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/news...inary-manual-content-available-free-in-an-app


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 13, 2018)

That picture is exactly how he looked graybeard.  He was fine in a few days and now sprints all over with his sister


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 16, 2018)

And the newest addition came today.  Ma had a healthy single ram lamb!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 28, 2018)

So not much has gotten done around here for the last couple weeks.  I had some serious chest pain just after the ram lamb was born and my neighbor had to run me to the hospital while my wife stayed home with the kids.  Several hours and a million tests later I got the good news that I wasn’t having a heart attack (chest pain, difficulty breathing, and my arm went numb) but I do have inflammation in the cartilage in my chest causing the problems.  I’ve had to take it “easy”  and take anti-inflammatories.  I did manage to get the new ram lamb wethered and docked his tail with the help of some friends, and Saturday I was feeling well enough to go shear the yearling ewe.  Poor girl looked miserable in the heat and she had quite the fleece on her.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (May 28, 2018)

Sorry ya been down for a bit, but it is Great news that it wasn't because of heart problems....I can testify that it isn't any fun to deal with any of that....


----------



## Latestarter (May 28, 2018)

Glad to hear it wasn't a heart attack. I've heard that chest/rib cartilage issues can be extremely painful. Heal up!


----------



## Baymule (May 29, 2018)

I use a paste of powdered turmeric and coconut oil for inflammation. I have arthritis in my left knee that flares up and is painful. The turmeric is anti-inflammatory, in 30 minutes, I can feel the pain subsiding. It tastes awful, don't try to dissolve it in liquid, that just makes it worse. Have a drink to chase it down. I take a teaspoon full of the paste.


----------



## Bruce (May 30, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I use a paste of powdered turmeric and coconut oil for inflammation. I have arthritis in my left knee that flares up and is painful. The turmeric is anti-inflammatory, in 30 minutes, I can feel the pain subsiding. It tastes awful, don't try to dissolve it in liquid, that just makes it worse. Have a drink to chase it down. I take a teaspoon full of the paste.


Maybe you could hide it in a piece of bread.


----------



## ldawntaylor (May 30, 2018)

I seem to recall turmeric is used in Indian cuisine.  Of course, you would have to eat quite a bit at one time....


----------



## ldawntaylor (May 30, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I use a paste of powdered turmeric and coconut oil for inflammation. I have arthritis in my left knee that flares up and is painful. The turmeric is anti-inflammatory, in 30 minutes, I can feel the pain subsiding. It tastes awful, don't try to dissolve it in liquid, that just makes it worse. Have a drink to chase it down. I take a teaspoon full of the paste.



Baymule, just curious, is the coconut oil needed?  Or is it just a way to take the powder easily?  The reason I ask is, the local health food store carries it in capsules.


----------



## Mini Horses (May 30, 2018)

Yeah, I was gonna suggest capsules.  You can get various strengths.   HOWEVER -- the coconut oil is good for your brain sensors.     I keep and take (on occasion) turmeric capsules.

Also use coconut oil in cooking as well as my goat milk soaps.  It's pretty good on your skin, also.


----------



## jhoeck (May 30, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Hello all,
> After writing out my rather lengthy introduction I thought it'd be a good idea to write a little about our little slice of heaven.  The reason I call it the Old California Trail is that our property is found right along the old Southern Route of the California trail, also know as the Mormon Trail.  We moved here in 2015 after i received a job offer to manage a commercial sow farm.  Not exactly what I planned on doing with my degree but I had a job offer as a ranch manager in Idaho fall through and the other job offers I'd received were too far away from my step-sons dad.  So we moved down here and managed to find a home with room for my horses.  Of course while it did have room for my horses and even a decent little tack shed it was not fenced in any way and having spent most of my limited money (recently graduated college student with 2 kids, one recently born) on the home I was unable to put up any real fencing beyond the Hotwire I'd brought with me.  But we make do and as time materials and funds have become available I have attempted to provide better fencing options.
> We started with my two horses, Jack and Bro. Brother Larsen (Brolo) is an 11 year old paint/Arab
> View attachment 38838
> ...


Love everything about this! Sounds like it's all fallen into place for you out there! And beautiful dogs : )

We are hoping to find more land and get sheep in Montana in a year or so
With another dog, however...Our full border collie is scared of even our chickens : I
She prefers to fetch instead


----------



## Bruce (May 30, 2018)

As long as she doesn't fetch the chickens!


----------



## Baymule (May 30, 2018)

ldawntaylor said:


> Baymule, just curious, is the coconut oil needed?  Or is it just a way to take the powder easily?  The reason I ask is, the local health food store carries it in capsules.



yes you can take capsules, but I can buy a 1 pound bag for $8. I found making a paste with the coconut oil is the easiest way to take it. 

@Bruce, packing wormer in bread  works great for the pigs, but turmeric paste in bread  sounds like a good way to choke to death.


----------



## Bruce (May 31, 2018)

Fine then! A bolus, DH can shoot it down your throat, you'll never taste it.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (May 31, 2018)




----------



## Latestarter (May 31, 2018)

Nah Bruce, that won't work... It's the sheer misery of "taking your medicine" that makes it work... The nastier it is, the better it works.


----------



## Bruce (Jun 1, 2018)

I think you are right LS!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jun 8, 2018)

So im revamping the horse corral, and unfortunately i wont have time to finish it before dark so i put the horses with the sheep and kept an eye on them to make sure everyone played nice.  Turns out theyre the best of friends and theyre super good together.  It only for a day though.  Also even though i swore up and down i wouldnt get a third dog, my wife finally talked me into taking one of my friends puppies.  Theyre well bred dogs and this little girl will be a great cow dog.  Meet Bella


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Jun 8, 2018)

Good luck on getting the horse corral done! Glad everyone is playing nicely in the meantime.

Congrats on this new addition! What breed is she? I really like her markings. 

Speaking of additions...how’s the pregnant wife, baby, and other kiddos?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jun 8, 2018)

Bella is 3/4 border collie and 1/4 Aussie.  Her mom is a red and white border collie and comes from some of the best cattle bred border collies in southern Utah.  Her dad is a border/Aussie cross and is actually a half brother to my dog Kya.  
The wife and kids are good we’re getting ready to go through a summer pregnant as the baby isn’t due until September.  From what I’ve been told that’s pretty miserable so here we go we’re seeing temps in the 90s pretty regular and it’ll just get hotter around here.


----------



## Bruce (Jun 9, 2018)

You better have a plan to keep DW comfortable in all that heat!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jun 9, 2018)

Looking at an above ground pool, a kiddie pool, or I’ll just spray her with a hose


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jun 9, 2018)

Sounds like things are good there and congrats on the new assistant and hope she works well for ya.........how are those sweet little runners doing?


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Jun 9, 2018)

As someone that has been pregnant in summer...shade and stay hydrated are the two keys if outside. (I wouldn’t recommend spraying her with a hose unless you want to sleep with Bella! Though the thought made me lol!) 

I have two Aussies and love them! Thought I was completely a German Shepherd person but really like my Aussies. Think I’ll get another in the next few years. (Gotta get another LGD or two raised up first.)


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jun 9, 2018)

@CntryBoy777 Im sorry to say that the Indian runners are no longer with us.  The neighbors dogs came back, dug into the duck pen and killed another and left another one critically injured, I ended up having to euthanize her.  So we had one left and so I gave her to a friend who had some runners and he gives me regular updates. The neighbors dogs are officially gone though, while they were loose they killed 5 of his chickens so he sent them down the road.  We probably won’t be getting more ducks but my mom has offered me 5 Sussex chickens.  Just gotta work on my wife now she’s deathly afraid of chickens haha.  I guess when she was little they had some and they had a big rooster that attacked her and traumatized her for life.  We were collecting eggs for my mom and the chickens came running up and she acted like they were a pack of dinosaurs from Jurassic park!


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Jun 9, 2018)

Good grief on the dogs! Sorry to hear about your ducks! 

Oh my! I can’t say as I blame your wife. Reassuring her that roosters and hens are two different things may help. I really like my hens and DH was deathly afraid of chickens and actually likes the hens for the most part now. The kids and I pick them up and carry them around. Ours know I bring treats and get all excited to see me. 

One option to consider would be a chicken tractor. They are contained so they can’t get her but can be moved around to mimic more of a free range concept and less feed consumption.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jun 9, 2018)

So sorry to hear about those little cuties....but, I understand the problem. That is hilarious about your wife.....don't tell her I said that.....but, that reminds me of my oldest brother and his 1st wife.....she was a city girl and they lived with us on a 180acre farm....we had 2doz RIR chickens and 2-3 roos.....we called the top one Big Red and he was mean....she was outside in the backyard one day and we heard her hollaring my brother's name, we went out to see what was going on and she was up an extension ladder up in a pecan tree and Big Red was at the bottom looking up at her.....once she got down she never went outside again unless it was to get into the car to leave.....


----------



## Baymule (Jun 9, 2018)

I have two children, both born in September. I feel for your wife!


----------



## Bruce (Jun 10, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> We were collecting eggs for my mom and the chickens came running up and she acted like they were a pack of dinosaurs from Jurassic park!


Well they are kinda like dinosaurs and they surely do run at you with purpose when they think you have treats. A dozen hens running can make quite a thunderous pounding.

Get day old chicks and she can get used to them as they grow up.


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 11, 2018)

I have just read your whole post.  You have gotten a lot done since the beginning! 

What is your projected market for your lambs?  Is there a packer close where all the ranchers get together to supply lambs?  Do you plan to market direct off the range or do you plan to creep to get them to market sooner?  Are you planning to shear them yourself?  You should check with other sheep growers to find out when the shearing crews arrive.  With enough sheep in the area you might be able to get them shorn cheaply if you have a certain number.  For now, if you have a sheep shearing head on your horse clippers, you will be able to do it yourself.  Make sure that your blades are sharp though, have them sharpened each year and have several  sets of blades on hand.   Here in southern California I am paying $40 a head (that's why I am changing gradually to Dorpers) but my friend with several hundred sheep in northern California pays $5 a head.  Lots of sheep up there and more shearers.  I used to shear myself but can't really do it myself anymore, too old and too hard on my back. 

I am glad you got wool breed sheep.  Better for you if the snow is really bad since hair sheep without wool may have a hard time in those cold winters.  I remember reading about 100 years ago when there was a really (May?) blizzard after the Mormon ranchers had just done their annual shearing and they lost most of their sheep (thousands froze to death as I remember the story).  You could also check into pureblood Dorpers since they carry wool during the winter and then shed it out in the spring.  Look up Dorper sheep breeders in Utah on the computer there are quite a lot of them.  _Dorpers have the reputation of eating more brush forage than traditional breeds._  They were bred to grow and finish on bad pasture since in South Africa the forage is harsh and no water.  The white Dorpers are supposed to be calmer than the black heads.  I wouldn't recommend investing in purebreds all at once since that will come more expensive, but a ram lamb to breed to your mixed wool ewes would give you percentage Dorpers over a period of several years.  Great deal too that your ewes were pregnant - got an extra ewe lamb, a breeding ram, and a ram (wether) to put in the freezer!  Rams can get really mean when full grown, but maybe you can trade one of your sheep rancher friends for a new ram lamb each year to replace the old ram.  Don't keep a bummer lamb as a ram though.  Too many people make the mistake of making a pet out of their ram and then they have no respect for you.   I like bummer ewe lambs as replacement flock ewes since they are more tractable and easily handled if necessary.  I like to halter break my stud rams so I can handle them easily, but they need to know their place!  LOL  Since you have herding dogs, you probably won't have to worry abut being able to approach or catch your ewes.  The dogs will put them where you want them. 

You will need to do something about the dog attack problems though since it looks like you are having dog attacks from several sides, not to mention the BLM predators eventually.  Eventually you will need a  livestock guardian dog.   If a guardian dog is not an option due to lack of perimeter fencing, but you can keep the sheep with the horses, I would consider getting a donkey or mule in there, they don't like dogs or coyotes and are often successful guardian animals.  They will also eat, graze, and forage like the sheep.

Without perimeter fencing, another way to extend your grazing area is to run hot wires around the different grazing areas.  You can get by with 1 solar charger and battery which can be moved from location to location.  _That is only if you have a guardian donkey, mule or llama in with the sheep, since those dogs can get at the sheep otherwise._   The benefit to the movable electric fence is that you can do rotational grazing o get the most out of each paddock.  Everything depends though on keeping the flock safe from the killer dogs. 

With that many ranchers grazing sheep and cattle, I am surprised there are so many dog attacks around you.  I would have thought any attack would have been immediately reported to the sheriff and the dogs impounded or put down.

My 3rd baby was born in September.  I would put the older kids down for naps and then lay in their plastic wading pool with a book and cold drink till they woke up!  Did her health issues ever resolve?  All of us are praying for your family.  Can't wait to hear about the new human baby too!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jun 12, 2018)

Hi ridgetop.  For marketing Ive toyed with various ideas as to how I want to go about it and have been making some contacts to hopefully open some new doors to me.  Most of the folks in my county are cattle ranchers, and it’s only been in the last year that my neighbor decided to get into sheep.  The county south of us however is sheep country, and I’ve actually gotten into contact with family I’ve never known who run a lot of sheep about 40 miles south of me.  For this year with only one wether to market or place in my freezer (leaning toward the later) I’m not too worried about immediate marketing.  I have talked to my neighbor about shearing next year and should be able to be to get mine in with his next year.  For this year two of my ewes came sheared, my ram shed his coat, and I ended up doing my yearling ewe with hand shears (I had a good teacher who just sat and watched, figured I’d better learn how). 
One thing I’ve learned about my area is that hair sheep are extremely frowned upon.  So my plans for developing a hair herd starting with my ram Shaun may be changing shortly.  The good news is with the birth of lambert I will have a wool ram, and this first year I may try an experiment of breeding two ewes to Lambert (if he’s ready) and two ewes to Shaun, and see how each markets.  I’ve been told by everyone in my area that the wool sheep will sell better, but that could just be generations of being set in their wooly ways speaking.
Catching and handling my ewes I agree that the bottle feds are very nice to work with.  Heart (the twin mom) was bottle fed and is an absolute sweetheart and runs up to get cuddles from my daughter.  Ma and Bellweather (my kids named them all) have been a different story as they are range ewes who were rarely handled and I couldn’t get close to them for anything.  Since Ma lambed I’ve been able to get close to her and she’s a lot better. Bellwether is still a brat and I can really only get near her if I send Dixie after her. 
The good news is the neighbors problem dogs are all gone now, they proved too much a liability to their owners and at least one was put down.  A few others have been shot.  Now it’s pretty much just my girls and my neighbor down the street has three that have no interest in anything besides belly rubs.  As to the BLM Utah offers a bounty for coyotes and due to my close proximity I try to collect on that bounty as often as necessary.  Our coyotes don’t really pack up and the older ones are old because they’ve learned not to go certain places.  I do enjoy their singing in the evenings though.
I have a solar charger for my Hotwire and do rotate a little with my horses  but it got hot and dry fast this year so what I have on my property didn’t last long.
It’s going to be a very rough year for hay this year, and I’m working on a possible deal to graze my sheep on a friends land. 
And we’re actually getting two little pools, a larger one for my wife for that exact reason, and a smaller for the dogs as Dixie insists on climbing into every water bucket, trough, and pan she can find on the property.  She’s been like that since she was 6 weeks old.


----------



## Bruce (Jun 12, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> One thing I’ve learned about my area is that hair sheep are extremely frowned upon. So my plans for developing a hair herd starting with my ram Shaun may be changing shortly.


Are you intending to sell animals for breeding or meat? I don't see where hair or wool would make a whole lot of difference to a buyer if it goes straight to their freezer from the slaughterhouse. This presumes of course that the flavor, tenderness, etc is equal.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jun 12, 2018)

Intending mostly for meat but it’s interesting how people can be reluctant to try something new.  Course it all depends on what you’re raised with I have a friend who was raised on a dairy and grew up hearing everyone talk about how great steak was.  His experience was steak wasn’t all that great and it wasn’t until he ordered steak at a fancy restaurant in his 20’s that he realized there’s a big difference between a beef cow and meat from a downed Holstein.  Talking to a few people they’re certain hair sheep can’t be as good and they’re not bringing much at the local auction house.  Most hair sheep people are in the north part of the state


----------



## Bruce (Jun 12, 2018)

Kinda funny if those people are "black and white" on hair vs wool sheep for dinner. There are a ton of wool breeds and I doubt they are all equal in the "taste" category. 

Those with Katahdin sheep might be able to tell you if they taste similar to wool meat sheep.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jun 12, 2018)

I can tell a difference in the taste but it's very slight.  Supposedly the difference is caused by the lanolin in the wool sheep.  Hair sheep don't have that lanolin.  I have not looked to see if that is valid or not but I have been hearing that distinction since I first got around hair sheep 8 years ago.


----------



## Bruce (Jun 12, 2018)

So then, the subjective question, which is better!? Does the lanolin make it 'better' or 'worse'?

I would imagine what they eat would also make a difference.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jun 12, 2018)

I prefer the taste of hair sheep and have cooked many times for people that say they don't care for sheep but have only had wool sheep.  The way I cook may have something to do with it but literally everyone that has eaten at our place ate multiple servings.  Almost every time I see that question asked they are usually a mix with most people saying they ''like' the taste of whatever they raise.  I definitely will not eat sheep imported from Down Under but the majority of that is wool sheep or at least used to be.


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 12, 2018)

It is great to hear that you are trying to find what works for you in the lamb market.  You might find that you can trade lamb carcasses for beef with your neighbors.  Until you increase your flock to warrant taking a trailer load of lambs to market, this might be a more economical project to feed a growing family.  You may have to invest in another couple freezers, but you will have good cheap meat.  For your quality of graze (poor), your stocking rate per acre is fewer head than on good quality or irrigated pasture so you need to figure out how many head you can carry.  Remember that buying feed quickly eats your profit.  Lambs do not convert feed into meat as fast as hogs either.    

As to flavor of meat from hair or wool sheep, I have had both kinds of lamb.  The hair sheep we bought to try was touted as lamb but the roast was half the size of our 4 month Dorset roasts, and was incredibly tough.  The flavor was no difference than our own lambs but our family (sheep and goat eaters for 30 years) did not like it because it was so tough.  I really don't see that much flavor difference between the breeds.   We slaughtered and ate a 14 month old Hamp ram after using him for breeding years ago and he tasted fine.  No gamey taste.  The heavy gamey flavor some people say they taste could be from age, type of feed, or improper trimming of the meat.  Leaving the chiton or heavy paperlike layer over the fat gives the lamb a very strong flavor.  My grandmother always said you had to trim it off to avoid the strong flavor. 

The difference in price you were told you would get between the wool breeds and hair breeds is due to where they are being marketed.  You need to find out what your market is.  Hair sheep are fine for niche markets, but the larger wool breeds are preferred by the commercial packers since their equipment is all regulated to a larger animal.  Since you seem to be in commercial beef and sheep country, your neighbors are probably selling to the packer. 

Katahdin and other hair breeds are a smaller, finer boned animal.  They produce lambs at slaughter age around 50-60 lbs.  This is the popular size for the ethnic market.  It is a BBQ or lamb carcass to be cooked on a spit.  To get them to commercial weight of 165-175 lbs. they have to be almost full grown.  This is not feasible where you are trying to produce a sellable lamb in the shortest time period possible.  On the other hand they can be raised on poor pasture and some of them lamb every 8 months with intensive management practices.  They are good mothers, generally easy lambers, and milk well.

Black face wool breeds (Suffolk, Hamps, crosses) are a much larger animal.  They produce a larger framed and heavier boned lamb that is desired by the feedlots because they can be grown out on milled feed to a packer weight of 165-175 lbs.
This is not the sort of sheep that does well on harsh terrain since it requires better pasture and a lot of creep feeding.  These sheep only lamb once a year.  They sometimes need to have lambs pulled, may or may not milk as heavily, and need good pasture.  Make sure you select ewes that have easy lambing characteristics.

My breeds are white faced wool Dorsets, and wool shedding Dorpers.  The Dorpers are new this year and I have not yet had enough experience with them so I won't comment on their performance.  I _have_ bred Dorsets over 15 years.  They have lighter bone and do not have as much leg below the hock under them as the black faced breeds.  In direct ratio to the amount of bone though their carcass carries more meat than the long legged black faced breeds.  They will lamb every 8 months.  The meat has a lovely mild flavor.  They have few lambing problems, are excellent mothers, milk heavily, and raise their lambs on pasture to butcher weight of 90-110 lbs. by 4 months old.  They do not do as well on harsh pasture as Dorpers, however, they have fewer problems than the black faced breeds which we also raised for many years.

If you are paid by the lb., the  larger wool breed has a larger payback at the saleyard since they weigh more.  Also, if you have wool breeds you should be docking tails.  Since you have hot springs and summers, we think docking is essential to prevent flystrike in the manure under the tail that accumulates in the wool.  The best dock is between the 2nd and 3rdth joint on the tail from the anus.  Too short a dock is not good for health reasons. Now, here is a secret that sheepmen do to get the most out of their sale price.  Some sheepmen leave the tail a little longer - say the 4th or 5th joint.  It doesn't sound like much but of you are running 1000 sheep through a scale, that 1" of tail adds $$.  It won't be anything if you are just bringing a few sheep or selling them privately, so you don't have to worry about  it until you are running that many. LOL  Main drawback to wool breeds is shearing (extra work or cost).  If you can pick up a used clipper with sheep head and blades from a 4-H kid who is graduating, or at a farm sale, it will be quicker for you to shear than with a hand shear.  On the other hand, that hand shear will come in handy if you want to breech your ewes before breeding or lambing.  make sure to keep your hand shears and clipper blades sharp.  Shearing sheep in the grease dulls the blades really fast.  Once you finish shearing immediately send the blades off to be sharpened and they will be ready for next year.  Shearing day is not the time to find out you forgot to sharpen your blades!  LOL


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 12, 2018)

It is great to hear that you are trying to find what works for you in the lamb market.  You might find that you can trade lamb carcasses for beef with your neighbors.  Until you increase your flock to warrant taking a trailer load of lambs to market, this might be a more economical project to feed a growing family.  You may have to invest in another couple freezers, but you will have good cheap meat.  For your quality of graze (poor), your stocking rate per acre is fewer head than on good quality or irrigated pasture so you need to figure out how many head you can carry.  Remember that buying feed quickly eats your profit.  Lambs do not convert feed into meat as fast as hogs either.    

As to flavor of meat from hair or wool sheep, I have had both kinds of lamb.  The hair sheep we bought to try was touted as lamb but the roast was half the size of our 4 month Dorset roasts, and was incredibly tough.  The flavor was no difference than our own lambs but our family (sheep and goat eaters for 30 years) did not like it because it was so tough.  I really don't see that much flavor difference between the breeds.   We slaughtered and ate a 14 month old Hamp ram after using him for breeding years ago and he tasted fine.  No gamey taste.  The heavy gamey flavor some people say they taste could be from age, type of feed, or improper trimming of the meat.  Leaving the chiton or heavy paperlike layer over the fat gives the lamb a very strong flavor.  My grandmother always said you had to trim it off to avoid the strong flavor. 

The difference in price you were told you would get between the wool breeds and hair breeds is due to where they are being marketed.  You need to find out what your market is.  Hair sheep are fine for niche markets, but the larger wool breeds are preferred by the commercial packers since their equipment is all regulated to a larger animal.  Since you seem to be in commercial beef and sheep country, your neighbors are probably selling to the packer. 

Katahdin and other hair breeds are a smaller, finer boned animal.  They produce lambs at slaughter age around 50-60 lbs.  This is the popular size for the ethnic market.  It is a BBQ or lamb carcass to be cooked on a spit.  To get them to commercial weight of 165-175 lbs. they have to be almost full grown.  This is not feasible where you are trying to produce a sellable lamb in the shortest time period possible.  On the other hand they can be raised on poor pasture and some of them lamb every 8 months with intensive management practices.  They are good mothers, generally easy lambers, and milk well.

Black face wool breeds (Suffolk, Hamps, crosses) are a much larger animal.  They produce a larger framed and heavier boned lamb that is desired by the feedlots because they can be grown out on milled feed to a packer weight of 165-175 lbs.
This is not the sort of sheep that does well on harsh terrain since it requires better pasture and a lot of creep feeding.  These sheep only lamb once a year.  They sometimes need to have lambs pulled, may or may not milk as heavily, and need good pasture.  Make sure you select ewes that have easy lambing characteristics.

My breeds are white faced wool Dorsets, and wool shedding Dorpers.  The Dorpers are new this year and I have not yet had enough experience with them so I won't comment on their performance.  I _have_ bred Dorsets over 15 years.  They have lighter bone and do not have as much leg below the hock under them as the black faced breeds.  In direct ratio to the amount of bone though their carcass carries more meat than the long legged black faced breeds.  They will lamb every 8 months.  The meat has a lovely mild flavor.  They have few lambing problems, are excellent mothers, milk heavily, and raise their lambs on pasture to butcher weight of 90-110 lbs. by 4 months old.  They do not do as well on harsh pasture as Dorpers, however, they have fewer problems than the black faced breeds which we also raised for many years.

If you are paid by the lb., the  larger wool breed has a larger payback at the saleyard since they weigh more.  Also, if you have wool breeds you should be docking tails.  Since you have hot springs and summers, we think docking is essential to prevent flystrike in the manure under the tail that accumulates in the wool.  The best dock is between the 2nd and 3rdth joint on the tail from the anus.  Too short a dock is not good for health reasons. Now, here is a secret that sheepmen do to get the most out of their sale price.  Some sheepmen leave the tail a little longer - say the 4th or 5th joint.  It doesn't sound like much but of you are running 1000 sheep through a scale, that 1" of tail adds $$.  It won't be anything if you are just bringing a few sheep or selling them privately, so you don't have to worry about  it until you are running that many. LOL  Main drawback to wool breeds is shearing (extra work or cost).  If you can pick up a used clipper with sheep head and blades from a 4-H kid who is graduating, or at a farm sale, it will be quicker for you to shear than with a hand shear.  On the other hand, that hand shear will come in handy if you want to breech your ewes before breeding or lambing.  make sure to keep your hand shears and clipper blades sharp.  Shearing sheep in the grease dulls the blades really fast.  Once you finish shearing immediately send the blades off to be sharpened and they will be ready for next year.  Shearing day is not the time to find out you forgot to sharpen your blades!  LOL


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 12, 2018)

It is great to hear that you are trying to find what works for you in the lamb market.  You might find that you can trade lamb carcasses for beef with your neighbors.  Until you increase your flock to warrant taking a trailer load of lambs to market, this might be a more economical project to feed a growing family.  You may have to invest in another couple freezers, but you will have good cheap meat.  For your quality of graze (poor), your stocking rate per acre is fewer head than on good quality or irrigated pasture so you need to figure out how many head you can carry.  Remember that buying feed quickly eats your profit.  Lambs do not convert feed into meat as fast as hogs either.    

As to flavor of meat from hair or wool sheep, I have had both kinds of lamb.  The hair sheep we bought to try was touted as lamb but the roast was half the size of our 4 month Dorset roasts, and was incredibly tough.  The flavor was no difference than our own lambs but our family (sheep and goat eaters for 30 years) did not like it because it was so tough.  I really don't see that much flavor difference between the breeds.   We slaughtered and ate a 14 month old Hamp ram after using him for breeding years ago and he tasted fine.  No gamey taste.  The heavy gamey flavor some people say they taste could be from age, type of feed, or improper trimming of the meat.  Leaving the chiton or heavy paperlike layer over the fat gives the lamb a very strong flavor.  My grandmother always said you had to trim it off to avoid the strong flavor. 

The difference in price you were told you would get between the wool breeds and hair breeds is due to where they are being marketed.  You need to find out what your market is.  Hair sheep are fine for niche markets, but the larger wool breeds are preferred by the commercial packers since their equipment is all regulated to a larger animal.  Since you seem to be in commercial beef and sheep country, your neighbors are probably selling to the packer. 

Katahdin and other hair breeds are a smaller, finer boned animal.  They produce lambs at slaughter age around 50-60 lbs.  This is the popular size for the ethnic market.  It is a BBQ or lamb carcass to be cooked on a spit.  To get them to commercial weight of 165-175 lbs. they have to be almost full grown.  This is not feasible where you are trying to produce a sellable lamb in the shortest time period possible.  On the other hand they can be raised on poor pasture and some of them lamb every 8 months with intensive management practices.  They are good mothers, generally easy lambers, and milk well.

Black face wool breeds (Suffolk, Hamps, crosses) are a much larger animal.  They produce a larger framed and heavier boned lamb that is desired by the feedlots because they can be grown out on milled feed to a packer weight of 165-175 lbs.
This is not the sort of sheep that does well on harsh terrain since it requires better pasture and a lot of creep feeding.  These sheep only lamb once a year.  They sometimes need to have lambs pulled, may or may not milk as heavily, and need good pasture.  Make sure you select ewes that have easy lambing characteristics.

My breeds are white faced wool Dorsets, and wool shedding Dorpers.  The Dorpers are new this year and I have not yet had enough experience with them so I won't comment on their performance.  I _have_ bred Dorsets over 15 years.  They have lighter bone and do not have as much leg below the hock under them as the black faced breeds.  In direct ratio to the amount of bone though their carcass carries more meat than the long legged black faced breeds.  They will lamb every 8 months.  The meat has a lovely mild flavor.  They have few lambing problems, are excellent mothers, milk heavily, and raise their lambs on pasture to butcher weight of 90-110 lbs. by 4 months old.  They do not do as well on harsh pasture as Dorpers, however, they have fewer problems than the black faced breeds which we also raised for many years.

If you are paid by the lb., the  larger wool breed has a larger payback at the saleyard since they weigh more.  Also, if you have wool breeds you should be docking tails.  Since you have hot springs and summers, we think docking is essential to prevent flystrike in the manure under the tail that accumulates in the wool.  The best dock is between the 2nd and 3rdth joint on the tail from the anus.  Too short a dock is not good for health reasons. Now, here is a secret that sheepmen do to get the most out of their sale price.  Some sheepmen leave the tail a little longer - say the 4th or 5th joint.  It doesn't sound like much but of you are running 1000 sheep through a scale, that 1" of tail adds $$.  It won't be anything if you are just bringing a few sheep or selling them privately, so you don't have to worry about  it until you are running that many. LOL  Main drawback to wool breeds is shearing (extra work or cost).  If you can pick up a used clipper with sheep head and blades from a 4-H kid who is graduating, or at a farm sale, it will be quicker for you to shear than with a hand shear.  On the other hand, that hand shear will come in handy if you want to breech your ewes before breeding or lambing.  make sure to keep your hand shears and clipper blades sharp.  Shearing sheep in the grease dulls the blades really fast.  Once you finish shearing immediately send the blades off to be sharpened and they will be ready for next year.  Shearing day is not the time to find out you forgot to sharpen your blades!  LOL


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 12, 2018)

It is great to hear that you are trying to find what works for you in the lamb market.  You might find that you can trade lamb carcasses for beef with your neighbors.  Until you increase your flock to warrant taking a trailer load of lambs to market, this might be a more economical project to feed a growing family.  You may have to invest in another couple freezers, but you will have good cheap meat.  For your quality of graze (poor), your stocking rate per acre is fewer head than on good quality or irrigated pasture so you need to figure out how many head you can carry.  Remember that buying feed quickly eats your profit.  Lambs do not convert feed into meat as fast as hogs either.    

As to flavor of meat from hair or wool sheep, I have had both kinds of lamb.  The hair sheep we bought to try was touted as lamb but the roast was half the size of our 4 month Dorset roasts, and was incredibly tough.  The flavor was no difference than our own lambs but our family (sheep and goat eaters for 30 years) did not like it because it was so tough.  I really don't see that much flavor difference between the breeds.   We slaughtered and ate a 14 month old Hamp ram after using him for breeding years ago and he tasted fine.  No gamey taste.  The heavy gamey flavor some people say they taste could be from age, type of feed, or improper trimming of the meat.  Leaving the chiton or heavy paperlike layer over the fat gives the lamb a very strong flavor.  My grandmother always said you had to trim it off to avoid the strong flavor. 

The difference in price you were told you would get between the wool breeds and hair breeds is due to where they are being marketed.  You need to find out what your market is.  Hair sheep are fine for niche markets, but the larger wool breeds are preferred by the commercial packers since their equipment is all regulated to a larger animal.  Since you seem to be in commercial beef and sheep country, your neighbors are probably selling to the packer. 

Katahdin and other hair breeds are a smaller, finer boned animal.  They produce lambs at slaughter age around 50-60 lbs.  This is the popular size for the ethnic market.  It is a BBQ or lamb carcass to be cooked on a spit.  To get them to commercial weight of 165-175 lbs. they have to be almost full grown.  This is not feasible where you are trying to produce a sellable lamb in the shortest time period possible.  On the other hand they can be raised on poor pasture and some of them lamb every 8 months with intensive management practices.  They are good mothers, generally easy lambers, and milk well.

Black face wool breeds (Suffolk, Hamps, crosses) are a much larger animal.  They produce a larger framed and heavier boned lamb that is desired by the feedlots because they can be grown out on milled feed to a packer weight of 165-175 lbs.
This is not the sort of sheep that does well on harsh terrain since it requires better pasture and a lot of creep feeding.  These sheep only lamb once a year.  They sometimes need to have lambs pulled, may or may not milk as heavily, and need good pasture.  Make sure you select ewes that have easy lambing characteristics.

My breeds are white faced wool Dorsets, and wool shedding Dorpers.  The Dorpers are new this year and I have not yet had enough experience with them so I won't comment on their performance.  I _have_ bred Dorsets over 15 years.  They have lighter bone and do not have as much leg below the hock under them as the black faced breeds.  In direct ratio to the amount of bone though their carcass carries more meat than the long legged black faced breeds.  They will lamb every 8 months.  The meat has a lovely mild flavor.  They have few lambing problems, are excellent mothers, milk heavily, and raise their lambs on pasture to butcher weight of 90-110 lbs. by 4 months old.  They do not do as well on harsh pasture as Dorpers, however, they have fewer problems than the black faced breeds which we also raised for many years.

If you are paid by the lb., the  larger wool breed has a larger payback at the saleyard since they weigh more.  Also, if you have wool breeds you should be docking tails.  Since you have hot springs and summers, we think docking is essential to prevent flystrike in the manure under the tail that accumulates in the wool.  The best dock is between the 2nd and 3rdth joint on the tail from the anus.  Too short a dock is not good for health reasons. Now, here is a secret that sheepmen do to get the most out of their sale price.  Some sheepmen leave the tail a little longer - say the 4th or 5th joint.  It doesn't sound like much but of you are running 1000 sheep through a scale, that 1" of tail adds $$.  It won't be anything if you are just bringing a few sheep or selling them privately, so you don't have to worry about  it until you are running that many. LOL  Main drawback to wool breeds is shearing (extra work or cost).  If you can pick up a used clipper with sheep head and blades from a 4-H kid who is graduating, or at a farm sale, it will be quicker for you to shear than with a hand shear.  On the other hand, that hand shear will come in handy if you want to breech your ewes before breeding or lambing.  make sure to keep your hand shears and clipper blades sharp.  Shearing sheep in the grease dulls the blades really fast.  Once you finish shearing immediately send the blades off to be sharpened and they will be ready for next year.  Shearing day is not the time to find out you forgot to sharpen your blades!  LOL


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 12, 2018)

It is great to hear that you are trying to find what works for you in the lamb market.  You might find that you can trade lamb carcasses for beef with your neighbors.  Until you increase your flock to warrant taking a trailer load of lambs to market, this might be a more economical project to feed a growing family.  You may have to invest in another couple freezers, but you will have good cheap meat.  For your quality of graze (poor), your stocking rate per acre is fewer head than on good quality or irrigated pasture so you need to figure out how many head you can carry.  Remember that buying feed quickly eats your profit.  Lambs do not convert feed into meat as fast as hogs either.    

As to flavor of meat from hair or wool sheep, I have had both kinds of lamb.  The hair sheep we bought to try was touted as lamb but the roast was half the size of our 4 month Dorset roasts, and was incredibly tough.  The flavor was no difference than our own lambs but our family (sheep and goat eaters for 30 years) did not like it because it was so tough.  I really don't see that much flavor difference between the breeds.   We slaughtered and ate a 14 month old Hamp ram after using him for breeding years ago and he tasted fine.  No gamey taste.  The heavy gamey flavor some people say they taste could be from age, type of feed, or improper trimming of the meat.  Leaving the chiton or heavy paperlike layer over the fat gives the lamb a very strong flavor.  My grandmother always said you had to trim it off to avoid the strong flavor. 

The difference in price you were told you would get between the wool breeds and hair breeds is due to where they are being marketed.  You need to find out what your market is.  Hair sheep are fine for niche markets, but the larger wool breeds are preferred by the commercial packers since their equipment is all regulated to a larger animal.  Since you seem to be in commercial beef and sheep country, your neighbors are probably selling to the packer. 

Katahdin and other hair breeds are a smaller, finer boned animal.  They produce lambs at slaughter age around 50-60 lbs.  This is the popular size for the ethnic market.  It is a BBQ or lamb carcass to be cooked on a spit.  To get them to commercial weight of 165-175 lbs. they have to be almost full grown.  This is not feasible where you are trying to produce a sellable lamb in the shortest time period possible.  On the other hand they can be raised on poor pasture and some of them lamb every 8 months with intensive management practices.  They are good mothers, generally easy lambers, and milk well.

Black face wool breeds (Suffolk, Hamps, crosses) are a much larger animal.  They produce a larger framed and heavier boned lamb that is desired by the feedlots because they can be grown out on milled feed to a packer weight of 165-175 lbs.
This is not the sort of sheep that does well on harsh terrain since it requires better pasture and a lot of creep feeding.  These sheep only lamb once a year.  They sometimes need to have lambs pulled, may or may not milk as heavily, and need good pasture.  Make sure you select ewes that have easy lambing characteristics.

My breeds are white faced wool Dorsets, and wool shedding Dorpers.  The Dorpers are new this year and I have not yet had enough experience with them so I won't comment on their performance.  I _have_ bred Dorsets over 15 years.  They have lighter bone and do not have as much leg below the hock under them as the black faced breeds.  In direct ratio to the amount of bone though their carcass carries more meat than the long legged black faced breeds.  They will lamb every 8 months.  The meat has a lovely mild flavor.  They have few lambing problems, are excellent mothers, milk heavily, and raise their lambs on pasture to butcher weight of 90-110 lbs. by 4 months old.  They do not do as well on harsh pasture as Dorpers, however, they have fewer problems than the black faced breeds which we also raised for many years.

If you are paid by the lb., the  larger wool breed has a larger payback at the saleyard since they weigh more.  Also, if you have wool breeds you should be docking tails.  Since you have hot springs and summers, we think docking is essential to prevent flystrike in the manure under the tail that accumulates in the wool.  The best dock is between the 2nd and 3rdth joint on the tail from the anus.  Too short a dock is not good for health reasons. Now, here is a secret that sheepmen do to get the most out of their sale price.  Some sheepmen leave the tail a little longer - say the 4th or 5th joint.  It doesn't sound like much but of you are running 1000 sheep through a scale, that 1" of tail adds $$.  It won't be anything if you are just bringing a few sheep or selling them privately, so you don't have to worry about  it until you are running that many. LOL  Main drawback to wool breeds is shearing (extra work or cost).  If you can pick up a used clipper with sheep head and blades from a 4-H kid who is graduating, or at a farm sale, it will be quicker for you to shear than with a hand shear.  On the other hand, that hand shear will come in handy if you want to breech your ewes before breeding or lambing.  make sure to keep your hand shears and clipper blades sharp.  Shearing sheep in the grease dulls the blades really fast.  Once you finish shearing immediately send the blades off to be sharpened and they will be ready for next year.  Shearing day is not the time to find out you forgot to sharpen your blades!  LOL


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 12, 2018)

SO SORRY!  MY COMPUTER JUST WENT BERSERK AND POSTED MY VERY LONG RESOINSE MEGA TIMES!  GETTING OFF TO RESET COMPUTER.


----------



## Latestarter (Jun 12, 2018)

You know, at the bottom of each post you make, you have the option to delete. So when doubles (or worse) happen, just go in and delete the "overages" one at a time. I have found that in some instances, when I delete a double, it deletes BOTH... So before deleting, I highlight the text and select to copy it. That way if the site deletes all of them I can just paste it and re-post without losing everything and having to start over. As luck would have it, this always seems to happen when dealing with a novella...


----------



## greybeard (Jun 13, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> SO SORRY!  MY COMPUTER JUST WENT BERSERK AND POSTED MY VERY LONG RESOINSE MEGA TIMES!  GETTING OFF TO RESET COMPUTER.



I assume, when you initially tried to post the reply, the little bar was moving but the post didn't immediately appear so you hit "post reply' again (and then again and again).
The bar is above the arrow:



 

When that happens, instead of trying over and over, copy your text, then go back to the topic and hit 'refresh'. 9 times out of 10, your post will 'magically' be there. Sometimes, BYH software seems to hang up and the post goes thru to the server ok, but just doesn't show.

(The reason I said to save/copy your text, is in the rare case that your reply doesn't show up when you refresh the page.)


----------



## greybeard (Jun 13, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> As luck would have it, this always seems to happen when dealing with a novella.


It also seems more likely to happen if there are several (or a lot) of annotations, bb code, emoticons, quotes, links, editing or images within the post. It takes more time for that kind of stuff to make the route from keyboard to server than plain text.

(It is also more likely to occur if your own device has something running in background while you are submitting a reply..like a software or antivirus update. 
What happens is, your upload speed is much  slower than what the server is expecting and it times out. And of course, if the servers are already seeing a lot of packet traffic, your's has to wait in cue. The server 'HAS' it, it just hasn't presented it on the page yet.


----------



## Baymule (Jun 13, 2018)

That happens to me too. Aggravating.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jun 13, 2018)

I just thought ya wanted to be sure to emphasize the point ya was wanting to make.........it happens to all of us, so there aren't any reasons to be embarassed.....


----------



## Bruce (Jun 13, 2018)

Yeah it was a lot of good information but I only read the first post


----------



## Latestarter (Jun 13, 2018)

Hope you'll forgive but I only read one copy as well...


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jun 13, 2018)

I appreciate the info.  I only read the first time through, I figured you’d accidentally posted multiple times.  But you never know, repetition is key to learning.  I had a substitute teacher 18 years ago who did the same intro every time she subbed, and I still have it memorized to this day.


----------



## greybeard (Jun 13, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> SO SORRY!  MY COMPUTER JUST WENT BERSERK AND POSTED MY VERY LONG RESOINSE MEGA TIMES!  GETTING OFF TO RESET COMPUTER.


That's one way to increase your post count....


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 13, 2018)

Thanks everyone!   Did not know how to delete the extras!  Every time I do something stupid you guys are able to help me figure it out.    You are right, it wouldn't post and I hit it about 6 times!  I also copied it but don't know where it is now!    I am so computer illiterate except for word and secretarial stuff.  Although I am coming along on the imogees! 

And yes, only read it once.  LOL 

I only repeat stuff that many times to get my point across to my kids!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jun 13, 2018)

Most of the group. Bellwether isn’t very photo genic 



 
And a happy little sheep dog


----------



## Bruce (Jun 13, 2018)

Dog is saying "Got snacks??"


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 14, 2018)

So fun to see your own flock with lambs!  You are lucky to have good herders too.  They make your job so much easier.  With our steep gully, I wish we could keep a herding dog but I worry our Anatolians would take it out.

Just a suggestion, but you might want to put some weight on the ewes before breeding.  They probably suffered from less nutrition before you got them, and their pregnancies and lactations have taken weight off them.  I would suggest you worm and vaccinate with CDT if you haven't already.  You don't want your ewes too fat, but you should not be able to feel spine or hip bones.  Impossible to see condition scores under wool, you have to get your hands into the wool and feel.  There are several good tutorials online relating to condition scores- I have put the addresses below.  Also, most rams will be more potent when the weather cools off so you might want to separate the 2 rams from the ewes (small pen will do) before breeding in the fall.  My suggestion would be to give the rams a couple weeks of minerals (watch the amount of copper since sheep can't tolerate high amounts) and grain to get them into good condition before exposing the ewes.  Do the same with the ewes.  Increasing the amount of protein (grain) to the ewes for the month before breeding and for several weeks afterwards is called "flushing".  It encourages ovulating ewes to drop more eggs resulting in more lambs per pregnancy.  These are range ewes so don't overfeed them, but you do want them to be in medium 2.5 flesh condition before breeding.  Pregnancy and lactation will bring them down in flesh condition and you want to build them up to produce more lambs.  Since you only have 2 rams, 3 ewes, a ewe lamb, and the wether for your freezer, the cost of grain for your flock will not be too much to invest with the hope of getting twins from all the ewes.  The wether will be tastier if grain fed and have more meat too when he goes in your freezer.  I like to flush if the sheep are on poor pasture or low quality hay.  IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO CHECK THEIR CONDITION SCORE FIRST.  The best lambing rates were from ewes whose condition score at time of breeding was 2.0-3.0.  Higher condition scores don't respond to flushing, and breeds that normally produce triplets and quads don't respond either.  Lower condition scores respond well but require a longer flushing time before breeding.  Continuing the grain feeding several weeks after breeding helps increase viability of fetuses and retention of multiple fetuses.  By the way, breeding ewes should be in a lower condition score than lambs going to slaughter.  I know you have the hog carcass cut chart memorized, so get one for lamb carcass cuts.  That will help you when culling your herd for breeding ewes or adding a terminal sire to upgrade your flock.  Same goals as your hog operation!

Here is the best illustrated chart on condition scoring I found - it is from Australia, but the US uses the same condition scoring.  The drawings of how to evaluate condition are very good.
https://wa.gov.au/. . ./conditionscoring

For information on flushing your ewes to get better production there are lots of sites on line - here is one:
www.extension.oregonstate.edu/animals-livestock/sheep-goats/flushing-ewes-don't-start-toolate-or-stop-too-soon

There was a thread on BYH in 2011 "Flushing ewes or does".  Those who did not flush had their ewes on exceptionally good pasture so their stock was already in high condition.  The goat people reported not flushing since they already were getting twins and triplets.  In response to the goat people, if they were milking, the goats were already getting grain on the milkstand so condition was probably peak.  Also, Nubians have a reputation for triplets and even quads.  As to the sheep, I flushed and got better results,* but* when we kept our sheep on grain they got too fat, and their number  of lambs produced went down.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jul 5, 2018)

And we’re back!  We have been super crazy around here and I haven’t had a moment in weeks.  Between work and my wife’s health issues and a nearby fire life has been a little crazy.  But works calmed down, the fire is out, and we’ve got my wife on new meds so hopefully we can sit down and enjoy life for a minute until the next big crazy thing happens, which may not be too far off.  Ideally nothing until the baby comes in late September but we’ve got a few things in the works that could change everything in the next couple weeks.  
We did make one trip up north to visit the in laws and holy greenery!  They do not have our drought fortunately for them 


We continue to have our wicked drought and some of my neighbors have actually had their wells run dry.  We’re on a separate deal and we’re at something like 300 feet so we’re fine but a lot of them didn’t go very deep because hey there was water and they were fine for 30 years.  Hopefully we get an abundance of rain soon.


----------



## Ridgetop (Jul 5, 2018)

Good thing you have enough water.  Water is life.


----------



## Bruce (Jul 5, 2018)

I imagine there are going to be some overworked water well drillers in your area.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jul 6, 2018)

Extremely overworked.  I’ve got friends who put a down payment to drill their well deeper back in February and it’s looking like it won’t be done for a couple more months.


----------



## Baymule (Jul 6, 2018)

I hope the new meds work well for your wife and that life smoothes out for you both. Fires and drought are not on anybody's bucket list, hope you get relief soon.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jul 9, 2018)

We’ve had beautiful blessed rain for the last two days.  It wasn’t for very long but I’ll take every ounce I can get. It also cooled us down from the 100+ temps we were seeing last week.  Our lambs are fat little beggars and growing well.  With them getting bigger I’ve been working the sheep with the dogs a little more, and little Bella has now been uninvited from the sheep enclosure for the time being.  She would come in with me and Kya and it was the cutest thing to watch her watch Kya.  She’d sit at my feet and watch Kya’s every move as she’d group up the sheep and start bringing them back to me, her little head on a swivel as she watched Kya run back and forth.  She’s been doing this for a little over a week now.  Yesterday my one ornery problem ewe decided to cause some grief and Bella suddenly popped up and tried giving that ewe the eye!  The ewe wasn’t impressed and tried to run that little pup over until Bella bit her and would not let go!  I called Bella off, she ignores me until I grabbed her and got her off.  Put her down she bites again.  Got her off she bites down again so I had to pick her up tell her good job but that’ll do and remove her from the pen.  So she’s grounded until I can get a better recall on her.  But that ewe did learn new respect for the little red and white creature and that was the first time she’s ever stood still and let me grab her. I haven’t been able to lay a hand on that ewe since the day I brought her home.


----------



## Baymule (Jul 9, 2018)

A rather ewe-nique training method, but hey, whatever works!


----------



## Baymule (Jul 9, 2018)

We got 2" of rain Saturday! We were so excited! Glad you got rain and got cooled off.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jul 11, 2018)

So I was talking to a friend of mine who raises stock dogs and explaining how Bella was grounded from the sheep pen for grabbing hold and not listening and letting go.  He made the point that she might see that as punishment and turn her off of stock.  So I gave her another shot and as you can see she’s on her best behavior.  Kya was cooling off in the trough so Bella sat to watch the sheep for her.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jul 11, 2018)

My Border Collie is so intense that he will nip at the sheep if he thinks they aren't going right but that's our fault for not working him enough.  When he does that I pull out the long lead line and in just a few minutes, it all comes back to him.  I agree with your friend that they don't forget and if they perceive they are being punished it can backfire.


----------



## Ridgetop (Jul 11, 2018)

I am so glad that you got the info about her behavior from another herder.  Working dogs are bred for generations with certain things in their brains.  Herding dogs and livestock guardians are a perfect example of 2 separate types with inbred behaviors that can be mistaken for something wrong.  Instinctual behaviors in working dog are to pen the sheep and hold them with their eyes - your picture shows that behavior perfectly.  The sheep are watching her for a clue to what she wants them to do next.  Some herding breeds were developed for work on cattle. and can be a little more aggressive which is necessary for working cattle.  Guardian dogs have instinctual behaviors too, such as ignoring a recall when they are checking out danger in a far pasture.  Some breeds are instinctually inclined to work farther from the flock, others close in.  Once we understand those behaviors, and how to work with them, we have a perfect working companion!  And of course, we have to get the right dog for the type of work we need!

You are so lucky to have great dogs and great advice on herding dogs from experts.  We would love to have a herding dog when our sheep won't come out of the gully!  But at other times we don't have enough work for them since the sheep are trained to come in at night for a grain feed.  Like *Mike CHS *pointed out they can get unhappy if they are not working.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jul 11, 2018)

Truth be told the dogs are the reason we have sheep.  Kya has always given herself a job if I couldn’t give her one, and I thought she might appreciate having some change of pace.  As a pup I’d take her with me to feed a small herd of corriente cows we were renting for team roping and she decided to give herself the job of bringing all the cows to the feed bunk. She saved my bacon once with an escaped cow and has helped me move yearling bulls down the alley.  Without the cows, she started to take it upon herself to bring the horses to their feed bin, and having been raised with those two they were pretty good natured about it for the most part. We got ducks for her to work with and she enjoyed those, but I felt sheep would be better for her, also Dixie wouldn’t work ducks(I really can’t afford cows right now.). She loves loves loves her sheep.  Breeding sheep and raising lambs is just a side project to help Kya pay for her hobby haha. 
I have no problem nipping at or grabbing ahold of stock when it’s really necessary, like when the ewe first tested Bella.  It became a problem when she kept it up, and I worried about that ewe when on the third time Bella grabbed hold of her udder and was being dragged.  Face and flanks is one thing, but the udder?  Ouch!  Of course Bella’s only a few months old so bite accuracy and better listening skills will come with time.
Final note Dixie has been rehomed.  While I love her to death she needed a different home.  She’s doing well and is well loved, and I miss her to death but it’s definitely better for her.


----------



## Ridgetop (Jul 11, 2018)

Sometimes working dogs don't work for what you need.  Better to place them where they fit in and do their job with the right owner.  Everyone is happy then.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jul 14, 2018)

Well we have been truly blessed it has rained every day this week and I see no need for it to stop.  I am looking at some options for sheep shelters as they really don’t have much to get out of the rain besides sage brush.  I’m also trying to get my one ewe to let me work with her a little, she wants nothing to do with me and without the dogs I wouldn’t have a chance.  She’s starting to get in the middle of the group and making it harder.  Can you rope a sheep?


----------



## Bruce (Jul 14, 2018)

Do they have necks and legs?


----------



## Mike CHS (Jul 14, 2018)

If you can get a rope on a wild one you can get them to stay in place to work on them (assuming you have someone to hold the head) but you won't be able to move them on lead for awhile.


----------



## Baymule (Jul 14, 2018)

Make a cow panel hoop shelter. They are cheap and easy to build.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jul 15, 2018)

I’m just not sure how delicate sheep are as opposed to cattle and horses but if they can take it I’ll give it a try.  I also looked into crooks a little.  I’ll have to look into a hoop sheltwr


----------



## Bruce (Jul 15, 2018)

Sheep have been out on range for centuries. They aren't afraid of a little rain like goats are


----------



## Baymule (Jul 15, 2018)

Here are a couple of pictures of a hoop run I built onto my coop at our old house. I put it together with hog rings.




 



 

Here is a hoop coop I built here at our new place.



 


 


 
To put the tin on, a friend stood on the inside with 1x4 slats and I drilled through the tin and 1x4 from the outside to hold the tin on.



 

Hoop shelters are quick and easy to build.


----------



## Ridgetop (Jul 16, 2018)

Great shelter!  I love hog rings for working with wire.

Since your dog will work the sheep and hold them in a corner, you just have to get close enough to drop the loop over her head.  I prefer to put a halter on then but my son just uses the rope to catch and we do what needs to be done then and there.  But he is big and we have been doing this for many years.  It depends on how much help you have.  Since your wife is pregnant and not well, I suggest that you use a rope, then wrestle a rope halter onto her and tie her to the corral fence with the halter.  Keep the rope on and then you have 2 ways to confine her without choking her.  She will try to strangle herself in just the rope.  On the other hand, once she chokes herself senseless you can immediately have your way with her.   

Seriously, using the rope and halter you can pretty much do everything yourself.  Once she is tied to the rail, call the dogs in to watch her and she might let you do what needs to be done.  If not, side her up to the corral and tie her body to the bars.  I have done that with a couple young ewes that wouldn't let their lambs nurse.  Range sheep are never going to be very tame unless they are separated as lambs, raised and handled separately so you can halter break them, etc.  In a few years your kids can do that for you!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jul 16, 2018)

I’ll have to take my rope in there with me.  Guess it could be good practice for some fancy loops


----------



## Ridgetop (Jul 17, 2018)

Baymule:  What height is that stock panel?  and 16' long right?


----------



## Mike CHS (Jul 17, 2018)

We also get Sheep & Goat stock panels from our CO-OP that are 20' X 48" that will give a bit more width.


----------



## Latestarter (Jul 17, 2018)

Aren't those sheep panels like twice the price though Mike? Here they are prohibitively expensive, or were last I checked into them. The basic cattle panel at 16' x 50" works great to build a hoop hut... And they're about 20 bucks if I recall.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jul 17, 2018)

The CO-Op here gets $26 a panel so not too bad.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jul 17, 2018)

Something to add is you need to have a way to move the 20' panels.  We put them in our fairly short trailer facing up and tie the heck out of them since they want to bounce around.


----------



## Baymule (Jul 18, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> Baymule:  What height is that stock panel?  and 16' long right?


16’ long and 50” tall. I make the frame 8’ wise and can stand in the middle of the shelter, but I can’t count the times I’ve knocked my head on the door frame!


----------



## Latestarter (Jul 18, 2018)

Mine is (still) covered with tarp, and I don't have (yet) T-posts pounded in along the outside to tie the panel to, to keep the sides near vertical, nor do I have internal bracing/wood structure to keep it up. As this batch of kids has grown, they have become rather destructive in their ever playful way by running across the pen full speed and running up the side of the hoop hut as high as they can or throwing themselves against it like a cross body block in ice hockey. They have nearly folded it in 1/2 as well as ripped a very large tear up the side. Since I'm about to re-do their pen to segregate out my buck from his ladies until the proper time arrives for him to have his way with them, I hope to rectify these issues. I had planned to attach corrugated roofing lengthwise down the hoop to cover it but that still wouldn't fix the issue of them trying to climb it.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jul 18, 2018)

We have started to replace the tarps that have been destroyed by the sheep rubbing on them with 10' tarps for the 16' panels since the sheep pushing on them to scratch destroy the tarps fairly fast.  We are going to put plywood on the inside of the permanent shelters and leave a small gap between the plywood and the tarps.  That should give some ventilation but still give them a wind break.  I'm going to make 3 or 4 portable hoop houses since we finally have our pasture fences set.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jul 30, 2018)

Not a whole lots been going on, but here’s a picture of the twins


----------



## Mike CHS (Jul 30, 2018)

They are looking good


----------



## Latestarter (Jul 31, 2018)

You can see where they've been using the fence as a scratching area... Good looking animals.


----------



## Ridgetop (Jul 31, 2018)

Nice looking lambs!  Ewes or rams?  The flock is growing.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Aug 1, 2018)

They’re a ewe and a ram.


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 1, 2018)

Goody!  One to keep and one to eat!


----------



## Baymule (Aug 2, 2018)

They look great!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Aug 6, 2018)

I’m actually keeping them both.  I bought their mom from a friend and it was quite the surprise when she lambed the night before I went to get her.  He buys a few bottle lambs every year for his kids to raise for some cash.  He was toying with the idea of keeping some of his bottle raised ewes this year to breed, and he’d already whethered his one ram lamb.  He requested that I keep lambert intact with the possibility of using him to breed in the future.  I agreed and we’re looking at the possibility of swapping him for one of his ewes or just loaning him for a bit.  I do have the single whether though that has the possibility of being sold or making it to my freezer.  You can see him in the background of the twins standing next to his mom.  He’s a big boy.  His mom also came pregnant which was a fun surprise.  She’s the oldest ewe but I actually kind of like her.  Then there’s bellwether, insane sheep extroardinaire.  She is an obstinate brat.  She will leave the rest of the group when we’re working and go running as fast as she can, refusing to come back to the group and relax. The dogs bring her back and she just runs through and keeps on running until I call them off and leave. She’s on my first gone list, unless by some miracle she has beautiful twins she will be my first cull from the group irregardless of age.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Aug 6, 2018)

So fun story about Bellwether.  You may recall how happy I was the day I brought Bellwether, Shaun, and Maa home.  The sun was shining, birds were singing, everything’s going my way.  For the first few days I kept them in a smaller pen made from cattle panels, to keep an eye on all of them because they came from an auction load.  When I first pulled up to the house and back up to the panels my wife and daughter came outside to see and my wife insisted that I keep my three year old with me to help unload as she was smitten with her “baby lambs” and couldn’t be dragged away.  My pleas that unloading animals with the help of a stubborn three year old was a poor idea fell on deaf ears and there I was.  I had them unloaded, and told Mae to stand by me while I pulled the panels together.  As I started moving the one side closer she of course decides that she needs to pet these sheep right now.  Mae is under the impression that all animals on the planet want her to pet them, and it’s a very difficult habit to break.  So she goes running over to the sheep just as I reach for the other panel to pull them together.  Bellwether, in a panic, tries to bolt under the cattle panel I’m reaching for and blows the whole thing wide open.  Cue 3 sheep fleeing, one confused 3 year old yelling “come back baby lambs” and one irate father.  A quick call to my neighbor for backup began our wrangling efforts.  No sooner he pulls up then his Aussie jumps off the truck and starts chasing the sheep ahead of us.  Genius dog has zero drive to be a working dog, suddenly he’s on trial at soldier hollow.....not.  He just drives them away while my neighbor curses his dog Jessie up one side and down the other.  My wife trying to be helpful offers to turn my dogs loose to help.  Having really just started with sheep, this was not the time to be putting their limited training into practice.  We finally managed to get the sheep down the road to my neighbors house, where he had about 100 ewes who had just lambed and a lane that was fenced in both sides.  I park my trailer at the end of the lane and me and the neighbor wait while his brother and Jessie bring those sheep down the lane.  His brother gets lazy and starts getting distance between himself and the sheep figuring Jessie can do it, I mean he’s an Aussie.  They get close and once again Bellwether loses it and starts panicking, riling her fellow escapees.  Now Maa is an old ewe and know her way around dogs.  She turns and seeing only Jessie she stomps her foot and suddenly Jessie remembers he’s not a sheepdog.  We now have one blue Merle Aussie running the opposite direction with three sheep hot on his heels and my neighbors brother ill placed to be any help.  The neighbor now calls Jessie’s heritage into question as we chase them twice around his house and finally into an old dog run beside the sheep pasture.  Success!  We loaded them up, got them back to their pen where this time they were locked away without Mae’s wonderful assistance and pictures are taken and posted on backyardherds.com.  Since then Maa has learned that my dogs don’t back away from a stamping foot and I’ve only managed to lay hand on Bellwether a handful of times with help from the dogs, one of those times being the removing of Bella multiple times from her various body parts.
She better have good lambs next year!


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Aug 6, 2018)

Oh my goodness - what a rodeo!!


----------



## Latestarter (Aug 6, 2018)

wow... kids and animals. So much fun, laughs and yet there are times of extra work/anger/frustration and sometimes down right fear. My middle daughter, like yours, had no fear of animals and while with me at my oldest daughters softball game, she was about 6, saw this big (well over 100 lbs), snarling/barking rottie and decided that he needed some lovin' so she just waltzed right up to him and started hugging/kissing on him. I about lost it! Pictures of torn up child, emergency rooms and doctors visits ran through my mind. She scared the daylights out of me with that one. Your initial sheep adventure sounds like it was quite a bit of all of that...


----------



## Bruce (Aug 6, 2018)

Just need the clowns!


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 10, 2018)

Wow!  Are you sure you are not related to our Ridgetop bunch!?   This is exactly the sort of thing we have taken part in many, many times!  Cute little Mae!  I can hear her calling her escaping lambies to come back!   We have similar stories at our place.  I especially like the part about the fearless Aussie, Jessie, being chased by the sheep!  

I would definitely dispose of Bellweather (possibly in another town under an assumed name LOL) after she lambs.  Keep her lambs and see how they do.  If they are as wild as their mother, you may decide to dispose of them too.  Sometimes this wildness is seen in range sheep with no human contact, sometimes when they have had bad experiences at human hands (not necessarily abuse) and sometimes just because it's in their genes.  Those are the worst because they never get over it and it transmits to the offspring.  In the meantime, Bellweather will be good for many more stories on BYH.
  Keep them coming!  It is a relief to hear that others suffer like we do here at Ridgetop!   By the way, once the bruises heal, these stories become family legends and are really something to look back on and laugh at!  We laugh a lot!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Aug 10, 2018)

You’re right about being something we look back on and laugh about.  You’ll notice going back through the journal I omitted this rodeo when the sheep came, mostly because by the time it all played out I was NOT in a laughing mood.  
I’m really hoping it’s not a genetic thing but for now at least it’s possible I could get a good replacement out of her and then send her on down the line.  I need to get more hands on time with my lambs so they don’t get that way.  The little buck has started to head butt a little bit, but I think Bella has almost broke him of that.  Her accuracy is greatly improved when it comes to gripping and she acts like her life’s mission is to never be run through. She doesn’t bite and hang on anymore (thankfully) but she will bite if the sheep show any attempt to ignore her “eye”.  
Another fun notice.  I was talking to my friend I bought the twins mom from, and he had apparently sold their dad to a friend of his brothers. Shortly before I picked her up the ram had jumped in with a load of cows he was selling. This wasn’t a great loss to me as he had been a bottle baby and had begun head butting children.  His brother had recently called him to tell him that no good ram (I’m editing here) had rammed him in the back while he had his back turned, and about knocked him down.  So it turns out I’m extremely lucky that PITA decided to jump in with that load of cows.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Aug 12, 2018)

So I’m relaxing on the couch when my 9 year old son says “hey dad how come you keep grabbing the sheep and petting on them?” I explained I was trying to get them to relax more around me and so I was showing them I’m not all bad.  He mentions I never do that with Shaun the katahdin ram.  Well I can’t catch the filthy beggar.  “Well dad why don’t you rope him?”  I think back to my post on here asking the question and figure sure why not.  “Now?”  So I get up and he gets me his soft practice rope.  Now being Sunday I relax in shorts (this is never done outside my home, I’m very much a jeans and boots person) and feeling a little lazy I decide I’m just going to throw flip flops on.  First rule of handling livestock, always wear closed toed shoes.  In my laziness I didn’t even think about it.  I turn Kya and Bella loose and have them corner up the sheep for me and shake out a loop and explain to my son I’m going to use a head loop that works great for bunched up cattle. I let fly the loop, perfect catch.  I reelShaun in and grab hold of his head, dads a hero.  And then here comes Bella, who decides I need help holding this rogue sheep. Now he goes berserk, plants a foot onto one of my exposed piggies and leaps for the stars. Now I can’t react I have my boy watching me.  So I reel Shaun back in, turn him loose, and walk back to the house with my son still in awe of dad.  
Never, ever, wear flip flops with livestock.  And never trust a young pups down.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Aug 12, 2018)

Ya can always show the young one how it is Not to be done.........heck, I'd have done....and have done...some similar things with my daughters and the grandkids too.....


----------



## Latestarter (Aug 13, 2018)

Sorry there cowboy... just HAD to @ that. I've done the flip flop and shorts thing myself, but never when trying to catch an animal. Only when I was doing cursory stuff where I wouldn't be in with them for any prolonged time. It hurts when they step on your foot wearing sneakers. The front tips of those hooves are very pointy and very sharp! Least they are with goats... I know they are a bit more rounded with sheep but I'm sure it still hurts real well when they press down on the tip. Thinking about a push off with a hoof on a bare foot... well... ouch!

ETA, you should have used it as a teaching opp for the son   You know... dad's aren't always right/perfect/make mistakes and doing things the right way can save a lot of pain and possibly worse...


----------



## Bruce (Aug 13, 2018)

Nah, Cowboy wants his son to think flip flops are reasonable footwear when working with farm animals.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Aug 13, 2018)

Oh no I told him he better never wear flip flops in there, I just couldn’t show pain.  It was one of those do as I say not as I do teaching moments.


----------



## Baymule (Aug 13, 2018)

That's funny. I never wear flip flops in with my sheep, they all mob me for a treat. They step all over me. This evening when I gave them their coffee can of feed, the ram ran between my legs to stick his nose in the tub. He is real laid back, seldom approaches and has never ever even thought about ramming me. unlike his daddy who is in the freezer......or what's left of him. We had leg of lamb last night and shepherds pie with the leftovers tonight.....BWA-HA-HA-HA!!!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Aug 13, 2018)

I generally don’t go in there in flip flops, this was one of those rare moments where I decide I’m too lazy to pull my boots on.  I guess I figured they’re sheep, they’re a lot smaller than a horse I’ll be fine.  After several years of working as a farrier I’ve had my toes stomped on enough times to know I would never wear flip flops around the horses.  But apart from Heart they don’t really care to be close to me, that’s why if I ever need to handle them I have to have the dogs.   Between myself, Kya and Bella they’ve figured I’m the lesser of evils.


----------



## greybeard (Aug 14, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Shortly before I picked her up the ram had jumped in with a load of cows he was selling.


Almost exactly how I ended up with the 1st, last and only head of sheep I ever had on my property. 
I had bought a little bunch of cattle from someone nearby, and it jumped the owner's fence when we started to drive the cattle down to my place.  Told him I did NOT want it and he said he would come back and get it later. He didn't and it layed under a bush and died 2 days later, and I got my backhoe horribly bogged down burying the thing.

Found out a few days later it had just wandered up onto neighbor's place and he couldn't find the owner and his wife wouldn't let him shoot it..


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Aug 28, 2018)

I have come to the conclusion that I could never make it as a single parent.  As we’ve gotten closer to the baby getting here my wife has been less and less able to help out.  She’s had some health problems with this pregnancy.  So after work I’ve been having to cook, clean, take care of critters and stop my kids from murdering each other while making sure my wife is somewhat comfortable.  Of course our neighbors have been great for which I’m grateful.  Though I could do without dinners being brought containing pasta sauce.  My 21 month old daughter has an incredible gift in getting pasta sauce smeared over every square inch of her body.
But I’m getting caught up today on everyone’s going’s on and can add a couple updates for my herd.  The babies are fat and the moms are too.  I can actually go into the pen and handle all of my sheep without any trouble or anyone attempting to run off, but of course I always go in with my back up and they make sure no one tries to run off.  We’ve also got chickens on the way in the next few weeks, probably once the baby gets here and I can finally get back to catching up on all my outside chores.  
I also may have been able to get my foot in with the Muslim market.  My new stepmom has some friends who were looking for a lamb for one of their holidays and they mentioned I had some lambs.  Unfortunately at this time I don’t have anything that meets their criteria but we talked about next year and they know some other people who will be needing lamb as well.  So the goal for the future is to have “unblemished” lambs available for them for next year and see how it plays out.


----------



## greybeard (Aug 28, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> So I’m relaxing on the couch when my 9 year old son says “hey dad how come you keep grabbing the sheep and petting on them?” I explained I was trying to get them to relax more around me and so I was showing them I’m not all bad.  He mentions I never do that with Shaun the katahdin ram.  Well I can’t catch the filthy beggar.  “Well dad why don’t you rope him?”  I think back to my post on here asking the question and figure sure why not.  “Now?”  So I get up and he gets me his soft practice rope.  Now being Sunday I relax in shorts (this is never done outside my home, I’m very much a jeans and boots person) and feeling a little lazy I decide I’m just going to throw flip flops on.  First rule of handling livestock, always wear closed toed shoes.  In my laziness I didn’t even think about it.  I turn Kya and Bella loose and have them corner up the sheep for me and shake out a loop and explain to my son I’m going to use a head loop that works great for bunched up cattle. I let fly the loop, perfect catch.  I reelShaun in and grab hold of his head, dads a hero.  And then here comes Bella, who decides I need help holding this rogue sheep. Now he goes berserk, plants a foot onto one of my exposed piggies and leaps for the stars. Now I can’t react I have my boy watching me.  So I reel Shaun back in, turn him loose, and walk back to the house with my son still in awe of dad.
> Never, ever, wear flip flops with livestock.  And never trust a young pups down.



Reminds me of a certain someone that once roped a fully mature Braford from the seat of a 8n tractor.... ONCE


----------



## Latestarter (Aug 28, 2018)




----------



## Baymule (Aug 28, 2018)

Sure makes you appreciate her more, doesn't it? I hope the rest of her pregnancy goes well for her and the baby.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Aug 28, 2018)

for an uneventful rest of the pregnancy, delivery, and recovery!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Aug 31, 2018)




----------



## greybeard (Aug 31, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> I have come to the conclusion that I could never make it as a single parent. As we’ve gotten closer to the baby getting here my wife has been less and less able to help out.



You'd probably do fine, as most do, and it's more and more common nowadays.  Raised 4 myself as a single parent.
Wasn't easy as with 2 parents but it's not nearly as bad as some things in life.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 15, 2018)

I managed to get out and be somewhat productive today and went to get some firewood.  Right as I got home the wind picks up blowing like crazy so I went inside to relax and wait for my help to arrive so I could unload it.  Suddenly there’s a loud thump and a crash and my kids trampoline had gone from the back yard to the front yard.  The thump was it’s brief contact with my roof on the way over and the crash was the ladder going through my kitchen window.  So before we unloaded we moved the trampoline behind the house and as you can see we’ve attempted to prevent any more aerial stunts.


----------



## Pastor Dave (Sep 15, 2018)

I was going to say, looks like a heavy load, prior to reading your post. I hope you have no repairs on the roof, and the window won't be too big a task. That scenario sounds exactly like everyday for me too. 
Sometimes you have to laugh to let out some of the crazy because keeping it in would be detrimental to someone.


----------



## Baymule (Sep 15, 2018)

Hmmm... doesn’t that make it hard for the kids to bounce on that thing? LOL 

Hope it didn’t poke a hole in the roof too.


----------



## Bruce (Sep 15, 2018)

I was going to mention that the truck must be loaded past capacity but it pales next to the rest of the story!
Sure hope there is no rain in the forecast before you can replace the window and there was no damage to the roof .... or anyone's heart when it happened.


----------



## greybeard (Sep 15, 2018)

Bruce said:


> I was going to mention that the truck must be loaded past capacity


Dually so it shouldn't be beyond capacity in weight tho maybe in volume.


----------



## Latestarter (Sep 16, 2018)

Get one thing accomplished and it is quickly replaced by two other things needing done.   Glad you got some wood in, sorry about the tramp taking flight... Glad no offspring were involved in that. Sorry to hear about the window  Hope it's a simple, inexpensive fix.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 16, 2018)

The window won’t be too terrible to replace it’s more just an unexpected cost.  The tramps frame bent on impact with the ground so it’s toast.  It was a miracle though that it just missed my stove pipe and swamp cooler and the roof is fine.
The truck does fine with the load and that’s part of the reason I bought a 1 ton pickup.  I learned my lesson after I sold my first truck (88 F250) and ended up buying a half ton short bed.  I could never carry enough wood/hay/what have you so when it got totaled I told my wife the replacement has to be a full sized bed 3/4 ton or greater


----------



## Pastor Dave (Sep 16, 2018)

I am with you. I have a 1500 Silverado 4x4 and next time it's gonna be a 2500 at least. Probably no dually, but might get a flat bed full ton with duallies for work and a 4x4 pickup for general light work, mud, and snow... Obviously I have more dreams and plans than money. Haha


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 30, 2018)

Well we now have two new additions.  Little miss Maggie came on the 18th with no complications.  My wife can now get around and is enjoying that part.  Fortunately the baby sleeps really well and is not a big crier.  The other addition just arrived today.  A friend of mine had a Nigerian Dwarf Goat that he’s been using as a weed eater for the last five years and now that his kids are all grown up and gone there was no one to play with him anymore.  So now we have Alfalfa!  My girls are of course in love and he’s really well behaved, he even comes when called.


----------



## Baymule (Sep 30, 2018)

Congrats on the new baby and I am glad that your wife is ok. It's wonderful that the baby is sleeping good and your wife can get her rest. Cute goat, he will make a great pet for your girls.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Sep 30, 2018)

Congrats on both new additions!


----------



## Bruce (Sep 30, 2018)

Congratulations on the arrival of Maggie, bet your wife is happy to finally have her on the outside.


----------



## Latestarter (Sep 30, 2018)

Congrats on both the new additions. I'm sure your wife is very happy to no longer be "with child"... You too probably.


----------



## Bruce (Oct 1, 2018)

I bet he is "with child" a lot now, considering she was "shouldering" the entire burden for 9ish months. She probably shares the duty now.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Oct 1, 2018)

Congratulations!!!! I’m glad your wife and baby Maggie are doing well! 

New barnyard members are always fun and it sounds like the kids are thrilled with this one being so tame!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 2, 2018)

The kids enjoy how tame he is but they did learn a lesson yesterday.  My younger daughter was petting him and I didn’t notice she was standing on his line then he took off running and that little guy has some power (course Millie only weighs 24 lbs).  He launched her off the line and she did not find that funny.  He’s done a number on what feed there was and I moved him to another spot in the yard until probably today when I move him again.


----------



## Latestarter (Oct 2, 2018)

ouch... I'm sure Millie learned a valuable lesson from that evolution.


----------



## Ridgetop (Oct 2, 2018)

Just realized I hadn't seen any recent posts from you so looked for your journal.  Congratulations on the arrival of little Maggie.  Glad to seebabies are cut too.   the picture of your new goat - Millie has something to pet now.  However, where is the companion picture of Maggie?! 

Love the story about roping the ram. We have all run to the barn "for a minute" in inappropriate foot wear.  Anyone else ever had a hay sliver in their foot?  OUCH!  The lambs look good.

You are a true hero to your son like those cowboys who get shot and still manage to capture the bad guy while simultaneously bleeding out and dragging their broken leg.  This will become another legend in the family lore.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 12, 2018)

Fall is in the air.  Leaves are changing, pumpkin flavored everything is out, and everyone is bringing cows off the mountain.  It’s my favorite time of year.  And it won’t stop raining.  I won’t complain because we had such a dry year, and at least a cold miserable rain is moisture for next year.
With all the rain Alfalfa has now occupied the empty duck coop until I can get him dog house bought or built.  My older daughter is still in love with her “best friend alfalfa” and sneaks him treats on occasion or just shares her current one.  I looked outside to see her with an apple, she’d take a bite, then Alfalfa, then her again.
Sheep are growing well and I believe I’ll sell Cowboy next month.  He’s gotten way bigger than the twins and is almost the size of his mom.  And they’re all a little better about being handled, but that may just be because of my assistants.  
Bella is now bigger than Kya but she doesn’t realize, and she’s 7 months old.  We planned on that happening as Kya has always been a smaller dog.  She was the runt of the litter but her personality and ability more than made up for it.  
I changed feed a while back and while Jack has done well with it Bro started to lose some weight.  So I separated them, which I’ve wanted to do for a while just haven’t had the means to do so.  My father in law sold me a covered corral that I could put him in so he’s got his primo feed all to himself.  So I still save a little on my feed bill which is a blessing. When it’s been this dry hay prices are not pretty, though I did manage to find a supplier last year that treats me more than fair.  The previous gentleman charged me an arm and a leg.  My mom was recently visiting my step sister in Oklahoma and commented on there being so much hay that they were just leaving it to waste in the fields, whether that be because of no one buying or the difficulty of shipping round bales I don’t know.  No one here does round bales, we like em square and stacked.


----------



## Latestarter (Oct 12, 2018)

I think the round bales are easier to deal with from the hay farmer's perspective. They are obviously much bigger than square bales (the small squares). Farmer Jan was saying that she makes both kinds but has moved away from the small squares because they are much more difficult to manage. Nobody wants to stand on the trailer and stack them. For small hobby farms like mine, I don't have a tractor or the storage facilities to deal with the big round bales. I buy the small squares at 45-60 pounds. I once bought the large squares at ~110 pounds. If I could afford it I'd like to try buying a "bundle" of the small squares, which is 21 bales. Or one of the large squares that are 3'x3'x8'  or 3'x4'x8'. I think those also break down into smaller bales... (40-60 or 100-110# respectively?)... Maybe they are in fact the bundles I'm talking about?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 12, 2018)

Sorry I should clarify.  Most folks around here do the larger half ton bales.  Easy to handle with a tractor, load great into a bale spreader, and they’re not bad to feed off a flatbed truck either.
Those that do smaller bales usually have a bale wagon which is a wonderful contraption.  It collects and stacks for you, and then they usually have a hay “claw” on their tractor that allows them to pick the whole top layer up and place it elsewhere.  But of course these are full time farmers, they’ve got more tools than the beloved BYH crowd.
In my area it’s hard to do small scale haying for just oneself, with limited water if you do have a small pasture it’s used for grazing and you feed hay in the winter.  But for those that try it, they’ve got friends with tractors.


----------



## Ridgetop (Oct 12, 2018)

Love the picture of Missy sharing her apple with Alfalfa.  My children grew up surrounded by dogs, goats, sheep, horses, etc.  It wasn't unusual to see a 4-Her at the Fair sitting on a bucket sharing a bag of chips with their lamb or goat.  Your children are lucky to be able to grow up in that lifestyle.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Oct 12, 2018)

Good to hear from ya and that things are going well for ya. I remember when I was jammin' gears in that area and saw those big bales for the first time....I knew they weren't hand-stacked.........I did see a tv program once that some built houses out of them....set the bales and cover it with stucco. There is way too much moisture and humidity here for that. Once ya get across Nebraska ya don't see those bales much, when traveling east....


----------



## Bruce (Oct 12, 2018)

1,000 pound square verses 40-60 pound square. Yep a bit of difference there!

I've seen videos of the machinery to automate collection and stacking of small squares. Pretty cool. One collects them into blocks and another, as @High Desert Cowboy said, can pick up the entire block and place it on a trailer then take it off and stack it in the barn.


----------



## Latestarter (Oct 12, 2018)

The first time I bought hay here, the farmer I bought it from had one of those "rotating claws on a platform" type contraptions on his front end in place of the FEL. He laid it flat on top of the bales and rotated the "claws" into the bales and lifted an entire flat of small bales at once. Carried them over to my trailer, and retracted the claws and the bales dropped into the trailer. I imagine it could have picked up one of those big squares as easily. The really big squares are 1400-1600 pounds. I imagine packed really tight they could potentially go a full ton. The hay farm near where I lived in CO used a huge Cat type bucket loader (like the kind you see doing road work) with a claw grapple on the front to move those huge square bales around. He'd stack them 2-3 high in long rows in the field and tarp them until they were sold and loaded/gone.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 12, 2018)

Rotating claw on a platform is the perfect way to describe that claw attachment


----------



## Baymule (Oct 13, 2018)

We buy round bales from a neighbor, plus $10 per bale for him to keep them in his barn and bring them to us as needed. We think it's a fantastic arrangement.


----------



## greybeard (Oct 13, 2018)

"They said I could be anything so I became Spongebob."


yes, it's a fake video, but still funny


----------



## greybeard (Oct 13, 2018)

The way we did it, and way I still did......... until about 10 years ago.  It was always lots cheaper to buy and load it in the field as it comes out the baler.

http://www.joneslandandlivestock.com/the-art-of-picking-up-hay-bales/

But..........I helped a neighbor do it the same way a couple summers ago, and I was flat wore out and hurtin by the time we got his 330 bales loaded.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 13, 2018)

Kya and Alfalfa weren’t feeling very photogenic.  You can just see Kya’s back end going around Shaun, she was not having this take a moment a smile business.  Bella’s all about the pose


----------



## Bruce (Oct 13, 2018)

greybeard said:


> "They said I could be anything so I became Spongebob."


I wonder how many beers preceded that event. Sounds like the camerawoman had a quantity herself.


----------



## Latestarter (Oct 13, 2018)

Bella is a pretty girl.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 26, 2018)

So Ive been moving Alfalfa the spoiled goat all over the property to let him graze what there is when he’s not demanding his namesake feed.  He’s the pickiest eater on the place!  Turns up his nose at three way hay so he gets what Bro gets.  So as I’m staking him out on the far north side of the property to do a little weed control I think you know, this grounds a little soft maybe I should put it deep.... Nah he’ll be alright.  I then go to the south side (with my house in the middle, not my preference but the guy who started the place was interested in being away from people, not in raising livestock) and proceed to feed the other critters.  Suddenly my son yells “Dad look!”.  There goes Alfalfa running by. My sons concerned as to how we’ll ever catch this runaway goat.  “What do we do?”  So I just looked over and yelled “Falfa get over here!”  And here comes Alfalfa, good as any trained dog and stands for his scratches.  His stake went a lot deeper in the ground after that.
Here’s the spoiled stinker enjoying his favorite treat from DD2


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 26, 2018)

I’ve also taught Bella a horrible new trick.  The other day we were out doing chores and she was a little over excited about being out and about.  I called for her and rather than run up and sit like she knows she should (she’s 7 months now and still a puppy) she launches herself up at my chest.  I’m 6’4, so it was a pretty good leap.  Now I’m a well trained dad with little girls who love to jump to daddy off of various furniture in the house, so I just naturally caught her in my arms.  I realized I’m holding this dog like a one of my girls, laughed gave her a scratch and put her down and told her to sit.  She sits, she’s a good girl and we keep working.  Then because I thought it was funny I tell my wife to watch this.  So I call for Bella and hold my arms out and she jumps up into my arms.  I know I shouldn’t but it’s kind of fun.  So now when I call her she’ll run up and if my arms are out and open she jumps and if not she skids to a sit.  This pup does not have a low gear she likes to go go go.  And her working style is completely different from Kya, which is interesting.  Kya is 1/4 border, 1/4 Heeler, and half Aussie but she works more like a border with attempts at using the eye, sometimes barking, and rarely will she ever use bite which is good for sheep.  Bella on the other hand being 3/4 border collie and 1/4 Aussie will give little eye, never barks and will over use her bite.  Her aims gotten better, and she calls off better than she did a few months ago with the udder incident (Bellwether is quick to bunch up with the group now, no more lone sheep for that girl).  But she’s a little too fast to bite for the head and heels, which has worked well for some ornery mama cows who don’t want to leave scrub oak but it’s not the best for sheep herding.  Once they’re together and stay together she’s fine, she just can’t stand to see a herd separated.  When I have a minute, which is hard to come by these days with work, new baby, and several neighbors who need a handyman I plan on building a small round corral where the sheep can be inside it but still move off of her when she’s on the outside.  An old sheepdog trainer recommended it for teaching a close working dog to move their sheep without overcrowding them.  She’s a great cow dog, but I’m sure she’ll make a great sheep dog too.


----------



## greybeard (Oct 26, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> View attachment 53255
> Kya and Alfalfa weren’t feeling very photogenic.  You can just see Kya’s back end going around Shaun, she was not having this take a moment a smile business.  Bella’s all about the pose


Which one rode the bicycle to the sheep pen?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 26, 2018)

That would be my son who was out of the picture watering the horses. That kid rides his bike everywhere he’d ride it in the house if he thought he could get away with it


----------



## Bruce (Oct 26, 2018)

You can take Bella on the fair circuit - dog tricks.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 7, 2018)

Silly story time.  Yesterday my 3 year old daughter Mae decided she wanted to help me feed the horses and sheep.  I loaded up her grain bucket and started out to the horses, and she starts trailing behind.  I’ve fed the sheep and am getting to the horses when she finally arrives with the grain for Bro and says “sorry dad, this grass is really hungry.”  That’s an odd thing to say.  I look in her bucket and it’s about empty.  This dear sweet little munchkin for whatever reason decided that the grain was for “feeding the grass”, probably because she’s seen me trying to get some grass seed started.  And there was this little trail of grain all the way out to the horses.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Nov 7, 2018)

Ahhhhh - how sweet!


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 7, 2018)

That is so cute! What a sweetheart and outstanding helper! Makes you just want to giver her a great big


----------



## Rammy (Nov 7, 2018)

Awwwwwww!! Kids do the darndest things.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 7, 2018)

If you want the horses to be able to find the source of their grain, you are all set, just let them out.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 7, 2018)

That's cute. My 3 year old grand daughter helped me sow winter rye last year. most of the seed she sowed went in little piles on the grouund and down her shirt.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 8, 2018)

So she grew "hair" on her chest?


----------



## Baymule (Nov 8, 2018)

Bruce said:


> So she grew "hair" on her chest?


Nope, she got a bath. She's not a Chia Pet!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 9, 2018)

Maybe I should sprinkle some on Millie’s head, poor girls two and still has no hair, but she rocks quite the mullet


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 15, 2018)

So my longhorn scar story.
A few years back I was working for an outfit that had one lone longhorn cow on the place, and at the time she had a calf.  One day we hear a bunch of bellowing and come over to find that that longhorn cow had somehow managed to get out of the pasture.  This was a frequent occurrence with this cow, in spite of that spread in her head she seemed to be able to Houdini her way out of anything.  Polled cattle couldn’t follow her escape attempts, and this time neither could her calf.  So I saddle up and ride over to push her back home.  The shortest way to do this was by pushing her south away from the main road to the back corral gate, and then run her through some alleys back to the pasture.  Easy....with any other cow.  Any attempt to push her away from that fence line was futile, she wanted to stay with her calf (wanted it that bad she should’ve stayed in the fence) and she had plenty of area to get away from me and back to her calf.  Alright, Plan B.  I shake out a loop, a big loop.  She knows what’s coming, and goes north to the main road, keeping that fence close to her right shoulder preventing an easy catch. She turns onto the main road and open up a little and I let fly my loop.  Too small!  Instead of getting both horns I get around the far side one but the loops in front of the other.  It’ll hold, but you don’t get the best control.  I dally on and start my way off the main road, and I’ve barely made it off before we’re suddenly straining like this cow had turned into a Mack truck.  I glance back, and that clever wench has wrapped herself around the stop sign at the end of the dirt road.  Stop indeed!  After some cursing of cow and her ancestors back to the first horned creature that mooed I get her untangled and manage to drag her through the gate, alleys, and final gate to the pasture.  Mama and baby are reunited, all is well with the world except one thing...she’s still wearing my rope.  Now this is a fine King rope from Sheridan Wyoming, I’m not about to leaver her with it.  I lean out and grab hold of the loop and start working it lose as she “relaxes” with her suckling calf.  BAM!  Stars, red, pain!  That indecent creature had swung her head and stuck me with her namesakes right next to my eye.  Fortunately the bone in my eye socket prevented further penetration, but if you’ve ever broken skin right there you know it splits like overripe fruit and bleeds like it’s pulling the blood from your entire body to that spot.  Rope in hand I storm off, daring anyone to comment on my bloodied face as I unsaddled in the corrals.  The next day my eye had swelled and blackened, and that sorry cow had escaped again.  This time, I just cut the dang fence figuring it was less trouble to fix that then to fight that hussy one more time.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 15, 2018)

Once her calf was weaned, she would be hamburger in my freezer. Escape now, ya bleepin heifer!


----------



## RollingAcres (Nov 15, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> BAM! Stars, red, pain! That indecent creature had swung her head and stuck me with her namesakes right next to my eye. Fortunately the bone in my eye socket prevented further penetration, but if you’ve ever broken skin right there you know it splits like overripe fruit and bleeds like it’s pulling the blood from your entire body to that spot. Rope in hand I storm off, daring anyone to comment on my bloodied face as I unsaddled in the corrals.



Ouch! But glad it didn't penetrate further and cause damage to your eye.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 15, 2018)

Well, you can't blame an animal that is heavy into maternal tenancies for doing what hundreds and hundreds of years have taught her to naturally do. I sure wouldn't cull or butcher one for it.

Many cows are good about using their horns to push down or pull up wire and then just walking on thru it and one with long horns will just stick her head thru, then tilt it back and raise the wire up so she can get her back under it, with the top wire just sliding along her horn.. 

When I was a teenager, there were lots of LH influenced cattle running the open range here and one that belonged to a guy up the road was so bad about getting INTO people's yards and pastures, he ended up putting a vertical wooden yoke on her neck so she couldn't get thru any wire. It was strange watching her graze tho.she had to drop down on her front 'knees' and tilt her head over a good bit to get her mouth to the grass.  Looked sort of like this, but his was made with two 2x4s.






The story:
https://www.texaslonghorn.com/pr/2016/index.cfm?con=Almond-Eyes-20160824

There are different kinds for jumpers, some steel with barbs on the end that poke their knees, others that drag a pole under between their legs and stick out the front. The part in front would hit the underside of the wire when the cow walked up close to the fence and started to jump.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 15, 2018)

Ouch!!!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 15, 2018)

I’ve never seen such a contraption, but my neighbor did tie a 2x4 to one of his goats horns in an attempt to keep her from getting through the fence in a similar manner.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 15, 2018)

I've seen yokes on cattle that were escape artists. It stops them, keeps them in where they are supposed to be. As the article says, you don't want your cow out on the highway, causing a wreck. The article doesn't say, but it is well understood, that any wreck caused by your livestock will land you in court, getting sued for all you've got. Besides, nobody wants their cow, horse, pig or whatever, causing a wreck where people are hurt or killed. Better for your cow to wear a yoke. Sell the horse and eat the pig. LOL


----------



## greybeard (Nov 15, 2018)

Baymule said:


> but it is well understood, that any wreck caused by your livestock will land you in court, getting sued for all you've got


But, 'getting sued' isn't the same as having to pay. Way less than 1/2 of the accidents cause by vehicle/livestock collisions ever result in the farmer having to pay the damages because the vehicle owner first has to prove liability..it's nowhere near an automatic thing.
Every Tx County's fence law I have looked at includes the word "knowingly" and that's the only part that = liability.
Texas courts and legislation has always recognized that "Neither God nor man has ever built a fence strong enough or high enough to keep a determined animal in or a determined attorney out".
_The animal owner’s liability would likely hinge on whether the owner consciously allowed the animal to traverse the highway.
 The law provides that a person who owns or has responsibility for control of a horse, mule, donkey, cow, bull, steer, hog, sheep, or goat, may not knowingly allow the animal to cross or roam at large on the right of way of a highway._

Tex. Ag. Code §143.102

It's the job of the plaintiff's attorney to prove that the farmer KNEW his stock were out or knew they could get out because of poor fences or unsecured gates.
And, if a livestock owner is sued, and loses, the plaintiff leaves himself open for counter suit, in addition to paying defendant's court costs..


----------



## Baymule (Nov 15, 2018)

We had a longhorn bull that could jump the fence like a deer. I got tired of chasing him down and sold him. At his new home, he nearly caused a range war. He jumped the fence and went down the road, jumped in a pasture and bred a herd of registered Angus.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 15, 2018)

Oh, wow!


----------



## greybeard (Nov 15, 2018)

Baymule said:


> We had a longhorn bull that could jump the fence like a deer. I got tired of chasing him down and sold him. At his new home, he nearly caused a range war. He jumped the fence and went down the road, jumped in a pasture and bred a herd of registered Angus.


Hybrid vigor and Max heterosis!!! For free too...or Did the new owner charge the angus herd owners for improving their herd?
(Chrome is the hot new thing for the cutesy crowd I hear..& that herd will probably be chromed up for the next 30-40 generations)


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 16, 2018)

We have a lot of open range around here, so where you’re driving when you hit an animal can change financial outcomes drastically.  For example the road in front of my house is a county road but the road that runs a little to the east is on open range, so depending on which one I use to make a Dairy Queen run at night I could hit a black cow and get a new car or buy a new cow.  It makes for some interesting arguments sometimes.  For example, driving to Cedar once on the highway we passed a bike race, and I had to intervene on behalf of a young lady who had just been bitten by a LGD.  She was bleeding and crying and scared, but the highway goes through open range and the race was happening at the same time they were moving sheep from one area to another on the range.  Now the dog is doing his job, but that is a public highway.  Who’s in the wrong?
As for a bull getting in, that depends on the bull.  They might call you next day saying come get your bull or I’m turning it loose in the lanes, or they might keep their mouth shut for a month or two and see what they get out of it.  But almost everyone in my area has big black bulls so it’s really not a big deal.  If they’re not black, they’re red and white.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 17, 2018)

So I spent the day helping a friend with their cow sale.  They have two sales a year, a bull sale in March and a cow sale in November, focusing on genetics and improving your herd.  Some people have crazy stupid money I tell you, one heifer sold for 10,000 bucks!  That of course is nothing compared to the bull sale, but I feel for a heifer that’s more than a little pricey.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 17, 2018)

I think egos are a major thing in sales like that.  We saw a ram go for over $8000 last year who didn't look much better than our $500 ram.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 17, 2018)

Gotta keep ahead of the "Joneses" you know, they paid $9,500 for their heifer.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 17, 2018)

Thats a pretty expensive steak.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 17, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Gotta keep ahead of the "Joneses" you know, they paid $9,500 for their heifer.


Or be the "Joneses".


----------



## Bruce (Nov 18, 2018)

Yep, set a new bar for them to clear ... so they can be "you".


----------



## Baymule (Nov 18, 2018)

It would be nice to be on the selling end of that deal.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 18, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Yep, set a new bar for them to clear ... so they can be "you".


I wish..
Well, not really.
Caring what anyone else thought of me or thought when they saw anything I had or did has never carried any value for me whatsoever , and I've never coveted what anyone else had or did either tho I admit....I did have to wonder a bit, about my place in the universe when I heard Lyle Lovett had married Julia Roberts.
(She couldn't hold on to him of course...I think he was prone to take a gringo honeymoon (or vice versa) , and I guess he's done ok for himself since...you can see her at the end of South Texas Girl video)


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 20, 2018)

Happy Thanksgiving!  We will be heading north to the in-laws and leaving the herd in the capable hands of a friend who never had to travel for these kind of things.  He and his wife are from here so they get it easy.  I love my children but after 5 hours in the car I’ll be ready to sell them to a Chinese Nike factory.  Upon my return Cowboy will be put up for sale and Lambert will be going to stay with the friend I bought his mama from.  He raised several more bum lambs and wants to try breeding the ewes.  Less labor intensive than bottle feeding.
The only thing I’ll be nervous about is leaving the dogs.  My in-laws are not dog people, and unless it’s my sister in-laws’ yorkies there are no dogs allowed ( they’ve got more pull than I do).  Generally I drop them at my parents on the way but they’re vacationing in China so hopefully my girls are ok for a few days.


----------



## RollingAcres (Nov 20, 2018)

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well and safe travels!


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 20, 2018)

It's a real bummer when family doesn't understand that our dogs are a part of OUR family... I'll take any of my dogs over some of my human family members hands down.  Hope you have a great visit, safe trip, and get a good price for your kids


----------



## Baymule (Nov 20, 2018)

Have a great trip!


----------



## greybeard (Nov 20, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> t's a real bummer when family doesn't understand that our dogs are a part of OUR family.


Most do, but that doesn't mean your (or my) dogs are part of '_THEIR_" family. Their property...their home. They get to set the rules at their place, just as you do at your's and I do at mine.

(I just don't understand tho, why no one allows me to bring my five gal bucket 3/4 full of emotional support/therapy fire ants when I go visit them....the new queens are just sooo cute when they make the workers lock legs in an ant ladder so the queenies can try to climb up the sides.)


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Nov 22, 2018)

I wish people wouldn’t fuss about my dogs when they come to my house. Just because they aren’t dog people doesn’t mean they have a right to be mean or rude or hateful to me or my dogs. Totally understand with finding someone to care for them that you trust.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 22, 2018)

If you come to my house, you better like animals. Or I can show you the door.  Like most people who love animals, they are my family.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 22, 2018)

Haha, you'd_ better_ like dogs when you come to my house. Trip, the Great Pyrenees jumps fences to greet visitors at the 16' gate that goes across the driveway. If they know him, they come on in. If they don't know him, they wait for us to open the gate for them. Then Trip is going to stick his nose up their butt, pee on all their tires and poop somewhere in the near vicinity of their vehicle. Welcome, dog style! 

@Wehner Homestead wanna borrow him for a welcoming committee? LOL


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Nov 22, 2018)

Rammy said:


> If you come to my house, you better like animals. Or I can show you the door.  Like most people who love animals, they are my family.



My mom is allergic (proven per testing) so I try to be patient. Lots of people bring their kids that are terrified of big dogs.  Ummmm hello?! We typically have five dogs weighing between 35-120+#.  Seems like everyone wants to send the dogs out every chance they get once we come in the house. I think I’m too much of a pushover and need to figure out how to stand my ground. I’ve thought about one of those signs but don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings...


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Nov 22, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Haha, you'd_ better_ like dogs when you come to my house. Trip, the Great Pyrenees jumps fences to greet visitors at the 16' gate that goes across the driveway. If they know him, they come on in. If they don't know him, they wait for us to open the gate for them. Then Trip is going to stick his nose up their butt, pee on all their tires and poop somewhere in the near vicinity of their vehicle. Welcome, dog style!
> 
> @Wehner Homestead wanna borrow him for a welcoming committee? LOL




I’d love to borrow Trip!!! I miss having a LGD so much!!!


----------



## Baymule (Nov 22, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> My mom is allergic (proven per testing) so I try to be patient. Lots of people bring their kids that are terrified of big dogs.  Ummmm hello?! We typically have five dogs weighing between 35-120+#.  Seems like everyone wants to send the dogs out every chance they get once we come in the house. I think I’m too much of a pushover and need to figure out how to stand my ground. I’ve thought about one of those signs but don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings...


When you have company and things are crazy, then a safe place to put the dogs might be best for all concerned. We have a fenced back yard, hot wired, that we have to use sometimes because of having people over. Our dogs are our family, but some people just don't get it, will never get it and it is too late to educate them. So, just put the dogs up until the brain dead leave. You know, the kind of people that brain eating zombies would pass up because their cranium is empty.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Nov 22, 2018)

Baymule said:


> When you have company and things are crazy, then a safe place to put the dogs might be best for all concerned. We have a fenced back yard, hot wired, that we have to use sometimes because of having people over. Our dogs are our family, but some people just don't get it, will never get it and it is too late to educate them. So, just put the dogs up until the brain dead leave. You know, the kind of people that brain eating zombies would pass up because their cranium is empty.



I have done that too. Just wish it wasn’t an issue. Glad to know I’m not the only one that deals with this though!


----------



## Baymule (Nov 22, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> I have done that too. Just wish it wasn’t an issue. Glad to know I’m not the only one that deals with this though!


Not everyone want's a 110 pound dog to stick his nose up their butt to say hello. For some silly reason it makes them uncomfortable.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 22, 2018)

It happens to me alot in my line of work. Its the "trying to eat me" dogs I have a problem with.


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Nov 22, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> It's a real bummer when family doesn't understand that our dogs are a part of OUR family... I'll take any of my dogs over some of my human family members hands down.  Hope you have a great visit, safe trip, and get a good price for your kids


I'll  take my dogs, cat and goats over most people any day...EXCLUDING  the BYH peeps. ..


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Nov 22, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Not everyone want's a 110 pound dog to stick his nose up their butt to say hello. For some silly reason it makes them uncomfortable.


...not me....kinda makes me feel welcome... @Baymule


----------



## Bruce (Nov 22, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> I'll  take my dogs, cat and goats over most people any day...EXCLUDING  the BYH peeps. ..


Nah, you would take the critters first, as it should be. But we understanding BYHers come second.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 23, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> I wish people wouldn’t fuss about my dogs when they come to my house.


You can always tell them just don't come to your house. It usually works.
I had a friend that had a pet monkey. Didn't take me but one visit to decide never to return.



Wehner Homestead said:


> Just because they aren’t dog people doesn’t mean they have a right to be mean or rude or hateful to me or my dogs. Totally understand with finding someone to care for them that you trust.



That is a different story....when others come to YOUR house. Your house, your dogs, your rules.

At one time, I had some pasture leased to a friend of mine to run some cows on. Problems arose, when there was problems with his cows. He rarely answers his phone, so I would have to go get him at his house and he has a big pack (4-7) of various breed cur dogs that won't allow you to get out of your vehicle (yes, they do bite!.. chewed some salesman's leg up pretty good as soon as he set his foot on the ground)
He'd also take them with him in the back of his truck to check on his cows and the first thing they'd do is launch off the back of his truck and make a beeline for my house and yard to mix it up with my dogs. Believe me...these were not, in any way, shape or form..cow dogs.

He & I are good friends, but I finally told him if he was going to run cows on my place he had to make himself available and that included doing something with his dogs so people could come get HIM to take care of HIS cows and to keep HIS dogs off MY property when he came to feed or put out hay..
He did do better after that but acted like I had asked him to  commit some heinous crime..
I did not re-new the pasture lease, mostly because of his dogs. H ended up having to sell his cows because he couldn't find a new lease...on account of his dogs.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Nov 24, 2018)

If my dogs were dangerous, it’d be different. They have alerted on strangers and I’ve even put a dog down that I didn’t trust. I’m just not thick skinned enough to throw a fit.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 24, 2018)

Many times, it has little to do with being dangerous if the animals are inside the house where the guests are visiting.

When I lived in San Angelo, we had a good friend that had a handful of horses and several hundred goats. For the most part, the horses were in paddocks by her very nice house in town, and the goats were on her remote property way out in the rangeland..her GS dog stayed out doors in daytime and inside at night but, ........she was also a cats person. An inside cats person. (that's right. Plural, as in a lot of cats..inside.)
She would call and invite us over for coffee or just to hang out, using the usual terminology, but if she were honest, here's what the verbal invitation should have sounded  like.
_"Hey Don, you and wife want to come over tonight and have some coffee and watch a video as my dog humps your leg, and my cats crawl all over the countertops, the stove top, try to sip some of your coffee, meander in and out of the sink eating bits of food off the morning breakfast dishes, drink from the cream dispenser and shed hair all over your clothes?  I'll put a throw on the sofa so you don't get covered in cat and dog hair. About 7 would be good._

It was pretty awful. I had to go in the bathroom while there one time and the litterbox was huge and the odor from it matched it's size.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 24, 2018)

Cannot stand the smell of a cat litter box. When we had a cat, it was in the garage. Had to give her away, our SIL is deathly allergic to cats, druther have him than a cat. But I do miss having a cat.....Paris the LGD would kill it.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 24, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> If my dogs were dangerous, it’d be different. They have alerted on strangers and I’ve even put a dog down that I didn’t trust. I’m just not thick skinned enough to throw a fit.


Stand up for yourself or be a doormat. Be polite and gracious, but stand your ground. Maybe you need some "Southernisms" whereby you smile sweetly and deliver a verbal blow to the gut  that sorta sounds like a compliment......or was that an insult? 

If you can't think of any, tell me some of the things your guests say about your dogs and I will provide you with Southernisms.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Nov 24, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Stand up for yourself or be a doormat. Be polite and gracious, but stand your ground. Maybe you need some "Southernisms" whereby you smile sweetly and deliver a verbal blow to the gut  that sorta sounds like a compliment......or was that an insult?
> 
> If you can't think of any, tell me some of the things your guests say about your dogs and I will provide you with Southernisms.




Ooh! This is going to be fun!! I’ll gather a few!


----------



## greybeard (Nov 24, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> Ooh! This is going to be fun!! I’ll gather a few!


1. Exactly what is it your guests don't like about your dogs? (be specific please)
2. Something the dogs do or simply that the dogs exist?
3. In what way are they (your guests)  "mean" to them?

Have you tried "Get your %$@& off my property and don't ever come back!"?


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Nov 24, 2018)

In general, this is immediate family. (All of our friends are much more accepting!)

They don’t like dogs in general- specifically in the house. They complain about the hair getting on them and any that they can find on the floor. (I had a German Shepherd Mix before Halo.) I don’t keep an immaculate house but it is tidy.

On occasion, one of the dogs will jump up. Most are trained not to but y’all know it takes repetition with pups. I’ll say “off”
and I’ve tried to explain that it’s a different term than “down.” They still use down.

Had a dog that’s gone now but she was a 35# Mix and busy as a bee. She loved everyone and would run by and lick people without them knowing they were being targeted until she had already accomplished her goal. Threw fits about her to no end for this.

Cowboy currently has a skunk odor if he’s damp. Of course that’s horribly offensive.

Being nosed for pets is annoying and causes hand flinging which then starts the dogs jumping around.

Muddy footprints on my floors, if the kids let a dog in before I get a chance to clean them, are like a huge catastrophe.

We’ve had instances where people come and go from the farm when we aren’t home (it’s the central farm and several family members have access and things that are kept here/available for use/etc) and I believe that things happen when we aren’t here. Jewel has gotten much more timid and even the slightest change of tone sends her running to her pen with her tail nub tucked. (She is penned when we are gone so I don’t have a way to put the pieces together at the moment.)

Sending Faith out repeatedly was a big stressor for me. She usually went directly to the door when she needed out. The dining room table is right next to the door. She always came to check on the kids when they ate or did crafts or whatever at the table. I could tell the difference but since she was in the same room as the door, she needed to go out and the door would be held open and she’d be bothered until she went out. If she came back in as soon as someone else did the comment was made that she was just let out. Faith never had accidents and she didn’t prefer to stay out. She’d lay in the sun on the right occasion but was out if we were or laid around the house. That was her.

I get met with eyerolls if I mention my dogs. People make comments about how many I have. Family’s comments are ruder than strangers. The most I’ve had was 8. At the time, four were rescues and one was my brother’s heeler that needed room to run until he could move out of my parents’ fancy house to somewhere with more room.

Everyone assumed I wouldn’t get another housedog after Faith. No idea why. My house was empty. I couldn’t stand it. I had to deal with a lot of judgement about getting Halo and her being a house dog. She has been wonderfully therapeutic and gives me several reasons to smile each day.

I can’t think of any specific comments but I will and share them.

I do have a nephew that is terrified of large dogs. We’ve been working on this and are very careful with our dogs when he’s around. I don’t want him traumatized more and we’ve made lots of progress. Not sure where his fear came from though. They have a black lab mix so it’s not like he’s not around dogs.

We have pens where all dogs can be contained if necessary. I just feel like they shouldn’t be grounded every time someone comes over. I don’t send my kids to their rooms.

I have to say that the only time I’ve been like that about my property was when salesmen won’t leave. They got no business being back here and some won’t readily leave when the door is answered with a gun and a German Shepherd! 

I really don’t have the type of backbone to do that. I often wish that I didn’t let people walk all over me and push me around. 

I will say that DH will make the occasional comment back when he thinks he can get away with it while making his point. It’s much more difficult for me to do.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Nov 24, 2018)

My sister actually kicked at one of my Pyr’s one day because he leaned in for attention. My dad ended up handling that one. She still complains of they are loose and try to come or go from the house when she does but no more physical reactions.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 24, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Paris the LGD would kill it.


Maybe not if it were a kitten and you kept it with the sheep. Just one more member of the flock to guard.


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 24, 2018)

No... You must have misunderstood Bruce... When she says Paris would kill it... that's exactly what would happen. Age/size is not a factor. 

WH, I so feel for you and if ANY one, family member or not, took aim at one of my dogs, they would no longer be welcome on my property. period. Complaints about dog hair? Fine! Tell them where the vacuum is and allow them to help themselves. If they have a problem with my housekeeping, again, offer them the ability to help you out since they think you have so much free time to worry about inconsequential crap.

Central farm or not, Family members or not, I would immediately stop the random drop byes and free access to YOUR property. Hence forth, if somebody wants to store stuff at YOUR place, they will do so at YOUR convenience. If they want to retrieve their stuff from YOUR place, they will do so when YOU are there and again when it's best for YOU.

Getting off my soap box on HDC's thread. Time for some backbone reinforcement there WH! You are not a child, and beholden to no body.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 24, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Cannot stand the smell of a cat litter box. When we had a cat, it was in the garage. Had to give her away, our SIL is deathly allergic to cats, druther have him than a cat. But I do miss having a cat.....Paris the LGD would kill it.




I wish  I had a garage.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 24, 2018)

I agree with LS. Just because you arent home doesnt mean people can come and go as they please. 
Sounds like somebody mistreated one of your furry babies, and for that, access denied. Cameras stratigically placed might help you see what goes on when your not around.  
Thats your home and if you want dogs, cats, goats, sheep, pigs, or an elephant, thats no ones business but yours and your family.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 24, 2018)

I didn't quote the post but I did read your remarks about your family, your dogs and the salesmen.

Choices...always. If your extended family and others don't want to be nosed, licked, sniffed etc by your dogs, and they dislike pet hair in the house (albeit YOUR house)  then they will just have to stay away, AND, it's your responsibility to make that perfectly clear to them. You set the rules and what is allowed and not allowed in your house regarding YOUR dogs. If your visitors don't like it, they can stay home.
It really is just a matter of choices.

Who (what) has dominion over who (what)?

I personally do not let my dogs lick me, nuzzle me or sniff me except when I call them over to get petted. Why? Because if I allow it with me, they will do it with/to others that may not like it. If they approach to do so uninvited, I just say "Anghk!" and they know to wait until I want them to. Same when I have visitors... family or otherwise.  If they want to pet my dogs, they can call them over. I love my dogs and never mistreat them, but I insist on obedience. They do not have dominion over me.

If you want your dogs to continue to do with you and your immediate family as they have been doing, that's fine, but you can't expect everyone else that you invite or allow in your house to happily accept it being done to them. Look at the world as it actually is, not as you are. 


Many years ago, I read a short story..early part of Jr High school I think. It involved a relatively young farmer just starting out in a small community. He had lots of friends, and as was the practice of the time, they all pitched in and helped each other. As the young guy prospered, his friends helped him build the biggest barn in the county and he slowly acquired the financial means to fill it with animals and hay. He became enamored with his own success, somewhat self centered and  egotistical..ok, maybe a lot so and eventually found himself friendless as he approached middle age. I don't remember much more of the story or even the name of it, but a couple of lines have remained in my memory all these decades.
"One day his barn burned to the ground. He lost everything and he found to his dismay, he had run off all those around who might have helped him rebuild it''.
Choices.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 25, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Maybe not if it were a kitten and you kept it with the sheep. Just one more member of the flock to guard.


At our old house, we lived next to a cat hoarder. 30-40 at a time would show up every evening/morning to be fed. They crapped all over our front yard, sprayed the porch and house. Any that went in the back yard were killed by Paris, kittens a speciality. Cats yowling at all hours of the night drove her into a frenzy. Paris hated cats and still does. She kills snakes, cats, have found a HUGE possum she killed one night. Basically anything that is not a chicken or sheep is fair game. Dead.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 25, 2018)

Rammy said:


> I wish  I had a garage.


I don't have one any more.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 25, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> My sister actually kicked at one of my Pyr’s one day because he leaned in for attention. My dad ended up handling that one. She still complains of they are loose and try to come or go from the house when she does but no more physical reactions.


You are a lot nicer than me, I would have blown up on that one. How dare she? Trip will jump the fence to greet people at the gate. Then he follows them to the house, pees on all their tires and poops next to their vehicle. Don't like it? (shrug) Your car/truck is now anointed and protected by a Great Pyrenees. Better than an alarm. Anybody that kicked him would get a royal ass whipping.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 25, 2018)

Ok, this is your house. If it has muddy paw prints on the floor, so what? 

Southernism #1; I know that might be distressing to you, it will get cleaned up. If I am not moving fast enough to suit you, would you like to do the honors? (holding out broom, mop, said with a big smile)  Be ready for the blowback, cause it's coming. My house is clean enough to be healthy and dirty enough to be happy and we are freaking HAPPY. (laugh and wipe up paw prints)

Southernism #2; This is a farm, not a museum. Mud happens, it is not the end of the world. (look at her like she is a complete idiot) 

Dog hair. I have to say that dog hair annoys the crap out of me. I clean it up, it comes right back. Dogs are not allowed on furniture except for my and DH's recliners. It is our choice, guests should not have to deal with it. 
Southernism #1; This is our home. We like our dogs and they have hair. It comes off, duh. I vacuumed right before you came in to give you the pristine environment that you demand. I obviously failed, oh well. 

Southernism #2; As many times that you have been here, you haven't figured that out yet? (laugh loudly) 

Have you ever heard the expression, " Suck it up buttercup" That is exactly what you need to do. This is your family, your friends, you don't want them out of your life, but they cannot run your life either. Stand up for yourself, your children, your husband, your animals, your WAY OF LIFE THAT MAKES YOU HAPPY. You do not have to be rude or hateful, just polite and firm. 

Suck it up buttercup.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 25, 2018)

Baymule said:


> At our old house, we lived next to a cat hoarder. 30-40 at a time would show up every evening/morning to be fed. They crapped all over our front yard, sprayed the porch and house. Any that went in the back yard were killed by Paris, kittens a speciality. Cats yowling at all hours of the night drove her into a frenzy. Paris hated cats and still does. She kills snakes, cats, have found a HUGE possum she killed one night. Basically anything that is not a chicken or sheep is fair game. Dead.


ICK!! OK so Paris has good reason to dislike cats. And I guess you better not get goats or cattle either  I guess the hogs were kept separate from her too 



Baymule said:


> Anybody that kicked him would get a royal ass whipping.


And it would be well deserved!


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Nov 25, 2018)

@Baymule  ...you nailed that one ! ....I have pepole who won't  come into the house because they are afraid  of a 85 lb dog, i have family that do not understand why i would rather stay home and be with our animals or working around home ...than smoking cigaretts and getting drunk with them... when they say " why do you spend so much money on your animals....my reply is, i spend less on my animals per month than you do on tobacco and alcohol, my animals are not going to be the cause of my death...i can't  kill anyone while driving with a goat like you can with a buzz on.... and if i needed to, i could sell my animals and get most of my investment back...now you try selling one of your lungs ! ....yes mam. .you are way too nice to take crap from your GUESTS , listen to BAY....


----------



## Rammy (Nov 25, 2018)

My favorite saying is, "You got a set, use them!" My house is maintained for the comfort and well-being of my animals. You dont like it, here's the door. At one time, I had three dogs, and five cats in my house, as well as finches, parakeets, and two cockatiels. 
I got rid of the birds because of the constant feather dander and also got divorced at some point, so money to properly care for them was an issue. The dogs and cats passed away over the years, so now Im down to one cat and one dog inside.
I keep my house clean. No one, even my Mom, says my house smells or looks dirty. And my Mom would tell me if it did.  So, if someone has an issue with your pets, "oh so sorry you cant come! have a great holiday!"


----------



## greybeard (Nov 25, 2018)

But, IF she doesn't tell them forcefully, then she can expect the same speech and behavior to continue.
Family are a dime a dozen. No one needs 'em. Good dogs are a rarity.
[/sarcasm off]


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Nov 25, 2018)

I'm only chiming in on this one because I just went through the past weekend/holiday with my daughter, son in law, three kids and their three dogs descending upon us for the holiday.  They were invited and we were thrilled to have them.  They were only able to come if they could bring their dogs.  Their usual dog sitters were gone for the holiday.  One of their dogs is old, feeble and needs daily meds so it was bring him or not come to the family gathering. 

The three kids know my house rules because they stay with me a couple times a year.  When they got here we had a talk about house rules for the dogs.  My house - my rules.  Only the old sick dog is allowed to stay inside. (This rule would have been adjusted if the weather had been bad - but it wasn't)  His rules were that he was not allowed in the kitchen or on the living room rug. (Same rule applies to my own dog when she is inside)  This dog listens and does what he is told.  The other two - ARGH!  But they stayed outside during the day and were crated in the breezeway at night. The old dog was allowed to sleep in the same room as daughter and son in law.  Dog was instructed to sleep on a towel and he did.  The only mishap was when the youngest granddaughter let the old dog in after a potty break without wiping his feet.  No big deal - a quick Swiffer-ing and it was a moot point.  

When they first arrived the other two dogs thought it was ok to push past the kids and race into the house.  One little lesson by me at the back door stopped the rushing in.  I stood at the door - I owned the door and they dared NOT try to rush past me, lol.  Lesson learned and the rest of the visit was great.  

When I go to their house they have all three dogs in the house.  I love dogs - but I love well-behaved, respectful dogs.  At their house I will correct the dog if it is obnoxious and pushy with me.  But, I don't abuse, threaten, kick at or scream at their dog in their house.  And by the same token - I will not allow MY dogs to annoy a guest any more than I would let one of my children annoy an adult that came to visit in my home.  

In MY house children and dogs will be taught manners...  just my 2cents.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 25, 2018)

frustratedearthmother said:


> When I go to their house they have all three dogs in the house. I love dogs - but I love well-behaved, respectful dogs. At their house I will correct the dog if it is obnoxious and pushy with me. But, I don't abuse, threaten, kick at or scream at their dog in their house. And by the same token - I will not allow MY dogs to annoy a guest any more than I would let one of my children annoy an adult that came to visit in my home.
> 
> In MY house children and dogs will be taught manners... just my 2cents.



Dominion......


----------



## Baymule (Nov 25, 2018)

My dogs are well behaved. They mind. Carson is an inside/outside dog and has a crate to sleep in at night. He might be 4 1/2 months old, but obeys Go To Bed. He just got a bath because he smelled doggy. LOL

@High Desert Cowboy see what happens when you leave your journal unattended?


----------



## Rammy (Nov 25, 2018)

Hijacked thread.....the hijackers are asking for 20 million dog biscuits as ransome. Pay up or the puppy gets it!


----------



## greybeard (Nov 25, 2018)

Baymule said:


> They mind.


My friend's dogs minded him too. Problem was, he didn't give them many commands or discipline them very often at all, but from his point of view, 'they minded '.

Not rhetorical: "Is killing every cat it can get to something you really WANT your dog to do?"
Doesn't matter how much the dog may enjoy it...how much do you like him doing it?

The issue being discussed of course is not a dog problem. It's a people social problem.
At base level, what is being queried = "Is it worth it to lose invited guests and family in order to  continue status quo regarding how I raise and train my pets?"
choices..


----------



## Baymule (Nov 25, 2018)

No I don't WANT her to kill cats, she just does.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 25, 2018)

She 'just does' because there's not now and perhaps has never been, anything/anyone to _prevent_ her from doing it.
May (or may not) be in-correctable at this stage of her life, tho the adult female I acquired a little over a year ago hated cats when she first came here.  I scolded her enough about it that she gets along with them just fine now...squirrels are a different story. I don't care about them and she can kill as many as she can climb up and get.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 25, 2018)

Since I don't have cats, it is a moot point.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 25, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Since I don't have cats, it's a moot point.


That's known as a rationalization .....for behavior you have already said you disapprove of, but I understand where you're coming from.¹ In earlier times, the equivalent would be "It's not my ox being gored" which means that any given event will be seen differently , depending on the degree to which the viewer's self-interest is involved.
The cats undoubtedly see it  much differently.


¹as do the squirrels around here.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 26, 2018)

I don't see the cats coming onto her property and the dog taking them out any different than, say, trapping beavers that come on the property and cause issues.



Rammy said:


> My favorite saying is, "You got a set, use them!"


Um, does that work with ovaries?


----------



## Rammy (Nov 26, 2018)

Bruce said:


> I don't see the cats coming onto her property and the dog taking them out any different than, say, trapping beavers that come on the property and cause issues.
> 
> 
> Um, does that work with ovaries?



I wanted to say sometimes women have a bigger set then men do, but I think thats a given. Old saying goes, if you want it done, ask a man. If you want it done right, ask a woman. And, yes, it also applies to ovaries.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 26, 2018)

So we’re back and it’s been fun to see all your responses.  I grew up in a house hold that loved animals.  Mom was a dog groomer and we had every kind of critter known to man. Our dog Molly slept by my brother for 14 years and even had her own chair in her old age.  My wife’s family had one dog for a few years until her sister moved out and took him with her.  My wife has a hard time visiting my parents home because my mom still had dogs inside, and of course there’s dog hair and everything else but she doesn’t complain to my mom because it’s not her house.  At our home my girls spend most of their time outside and rarely if ever do they come in.  Cats on the other hand are never invited and only once when my daughter smuggled one in.  I barely feed what cats that are on my place as I don’t want to encourage more strays to find a home in my garage.  Their purpose is to hunt varmints and that can be their dinner too.  If they don’t catch enough, they can go bug my neighbor he’s got cats and cat food galore.  About a mile away we have the crazy cat lady, she had over 50 in her home at one point.  She also sets out tons of food every evening to feed the many strays that live in the hay fields.  Of course it also brings tons of skunks but her response is that they need to eat too!  And she will throw a fit if she catches anyone shooting her skunks. Some people are nuts


----------



## greybeard (Nov 26, 2018)

Bruce said:


> I don't see the cats coming onto her property and the dog taking them out any different than, say, trapping beavers that come on the property and cause issue.


Perhaps you do not, but she has already stated she did not want the dog to kill the cats.

Or perhaps you are saying I 'need training' to make me stop killing them?  
I don't particularly want to kill the beaver either and would be perfectly content to leave them be except for their burrowing and other activities that are currently flooding several acres of pasture and making it difficult to access parts of my property. I do in fact, choose to leave them alone most of the year, but once they begin to cause problems, I have to act. I do not kill them (or anything else) simply because they exist and and/or happen to be on my property.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 26, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Or perhaps you are saying I 'need training' to make me stop killing them?


Nope, not at all. Meant only that you are dealing with things that cause you grief and the dog is doing the same. Not that we understand just what sort of grief the dog gets from the cats.

I feel the same way about the 'chucks as you do about the beavers. If they weren't doing damage, I wouldn't care if they hung around. Seems like their favorite food is broad leaf weeds, nothing wrong with them taking those out!


----------



## Baymule (Nov 26, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Nope, not at all. Meant only that you are dealing with things that cause you grief and the dog is doing the same. Not that we understand just what sort of grief the dog gets from the cats.



We've been here 3 1/2 years and Paris has killed one cat, the first night we had her here. Turned out to be a stray that neighbors hated, so problem solved. Out of thousands of acres around here, that dumb cat had to come in HER backyard.  Very few people here have cats and the strays that get dumped wind up as coyote snacks. No cat hoarders around here, the dog is happy, I'm happy and cats are for coyotes.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 26, 2018)

Feral cats here usually deal with the coyotes easily enough. Coyotes can't climb and cats can scale up just about anything and there's 100s of thousands of 'anythings' around.. Goin to and returning from town, I see feral cats walking along the edge of the national forest almost nightly. Some of the same ones, I've seen for years. 
Bobcats, owls and hawks are a different story. They can all kill even a big feral cat real quick whether up in a tree or not.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 27, 2018)

There are loads of feral cats in our area, people have a kitten, think it’s cute, then take it out to the country as a cat because now it’s not cute and surely all these farm folk can use a cat.  Or 2.  Or 30.  I thought we were done with cats after our kitten fiasco but I was wrong.  We got two kittens back in 2016 that my son named skittles and tickles...I laughed and couldn’t tell him that those were stripper names but I digress.  Those two went everywhere together, they were litter mates from a feral cat on my friends place (he wanted to share the wealth).  The night after Millie was born I picked the kids up from a friends after a long night in the hospital and as I was pulling into the garage one of those stupid kittens ran right underneath my tire.  My son was mortified to get out of the car to see one of his kittens flopping around and wanted to know where the other one was as they were always together. Good question.  So I got the kids in the house and started looking everywhere for that stupid kitten, and I can’t find it anywhere.  The idea comes to my head “you know, you’ve looked everywhere but the dog run.”  Well why would I look there, the kitten wouldn’t be dumb enough to go to the dog run.  But I walk over with the flashlight and there’s the dead kitten, smack in the middle of the run.  Great.  So I told my boy I couldn’t find it and a coyote must’ve gotten it.  And we were cat free for a year


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 27, 2018)

In 2017 my wife decided she wanted cats again, and a friend had two cats about a year old, able to escape dogs and half wild.  Tux and Oreo cake into our lives, and tux was my kind of cat.  He moused, ate lizards and small snakes, the occasional road killed rabbit, and wanted nothing to do with us.  Perfect cat.  Then a big orange cat turned up one day, who moused and beat up the other two but was tame as all get out, he would follow me around to do chores like a dog.  We called him O’malley and he lasted a few months until he decided to be like a dog and jump on my friends flatbed truck and hitch a ride to his ranch. I still see him time to time as I’m loading bales out of the stack.  All was well until my wife brought home a little calico kitten from the same friend we got the other kittens from.  “She’s so cute, I have to have her and her name is Winnie”. She didn’t understand all Calicos are female and tux and Oreo are unfixed males.  A week later Winnie’s sister shows up at my place, with the promise she would get them spayed.  Nope, Tillie the sister gets pregnant and has four kittens.  I could only get rid of one, and Kya and Bella got another so we’re at 6.  My wife’s never been very good at math, so my plan has been to quit feeding the dang things and they’ll go somewhere else.  Nope.  But I don’t have a mouse, lizard, or snake problem. We get grasshoppers bad in the summer, and they ate those too.  Don’t get cats folks, they never stop at one


----------



## Bruce (Nov 27, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> I laughed and couldn’t tell him that those were stripper names but I digress.


Conjures up a memory going from Chicago to Albany on Amtrak a few years ago. Same conductor as on the way out and we'd chatted with him a fair bit. Fun guy. 

Middle of the night some people got on and he loudly proclaimed he was turning on the air because it suddenly smelled like a French whorehouse. When he came by I asked how he knew what a French whorehouse smelled like.

"well, you see .... never mind."


----------



## Rammy (Nov 27, 2018)

Poor kitties.


----------



## RollingAcres (Nov 27, 2018)

greybeard said:


> It was pretty awful. I had to go in the bathroom while there one time and the litterbox was huge and the odor from it matched it's size.


----------



## RollingAcres (Nov 27, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> In general, this is immediate family. (All of our friends are much more accepting!)
> 
> They don’t like dogs in general- specifically in the house. They complain about the hair getting on them and any that they can find on the floor. (I had a German Shepherd Mix before Halo.) I don’t keep an immaculate house but it is tidy.



Yup makes it the hardest to "talk" to them about the issue.
My step daughter brings her dog over every time she comes. We are ok with that because we love dogs. But every time her dog is at my house, she would snap/nip at my dog. When we had June, her dog nip at June a couple of times. Her dog nipped at our little pup the other day when they came over for Thanksgiving. It really bother us but we couldn't really say anything about it.


----------



## RollingAcres (Nov 27, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Conjures up a memory going from Chicago to Albany on Amtrak a few years ago. Same conductor as on the way out and we'd chatted with him a fair bit. Fun guy.
> 
> Middle of the night some people got on and he loudly proclaimed he was turning on the air because it suddenly smelled like a French whorehouse. When he came by I asked how he knew what a French whorehouse smelled like.
> 
> "well, you see .... never mind."


----------



## Rammy (Nov 27, 2018)

x2


----------



## Mini Horses (Nov 27, 2018)

RollingAcres said:


> Her dog nipped at our little pup the other day when they came over for Thanksgiving. It really bother us but we couldn't really say anything about it.



Really?  I would say something!   Then one would be crated or removed from the house.  My dog, my house, my rules.  Sorry....no one stays & does that.


----------



## RollingAcres (Nov 27, 2018)

Mini Horses said:


> Really?  I would say something!   Then one would be crated or removed from the house.  My dog, my house, my rules.  Sorry....no one stays & does that.


She did "lecture" her dog and gave the dog a stern talk...the thing is she doesn't come over to visit often (even tho she lives 20 mins away) so DH didn't want to "risk" saying something then she'll get pi$$ed and don't visit anymore.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 27, 2018)

Leave the dog at home if she only lives 20 minutes away. Problem solved.


----------



## RollingAcres (Nov 27, 2018)

Rammy said:


> Leave the dog at home if she only lives 20 minutes away. Problem solved.


Nope then she won't come.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 27, 2018)

So the dog means more to her than her own family. When I go to my Moms house, which is only 20 minutes away, and take Lucy, I have to leave her in the garage. She isnt allowed in the house. Its my Mom's house, her rules. Or I leave her at home. A dog isnt worth fighting over or getting into an argument over because I cant bring her in the house. When I stayed with my Dad while Mom was in the hospital, I had to board her where I work. Thats too bad someone would choose an animal over their own family.


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Nov 27, 2018)

@Rammy ...I will admit to chosing my animals over my family.... but i just don't  let them know it. Mine stay home if we go to visit...this is their safe space... and I can get in and out quicker, maby it's  diffrent if you only have siblings left in life ? Both my folks are gone.... but thinking back, i don't  remember bringing my dog to my parents either...


----------



## RollingAcres (Nov 27, 2018)

Rammy said:


> A dog isnt worth fighting over or getting into an argument over


And that's exactly why nothing will/can be said about it because we don't want to get in an argument over a dog...


----------



## Baymule (Nov 27, 2018)

For Christmas, we will board Carson, our puppy. He is too young to leave unsupervised in the house, it is not fair to crate him 22 hours, and it is not fair to dump the responsibility on our friend who comes over to feed for us. Because of the day Christmas comes on, the vet is closed from Saturday at noon until Wednesday. It sucks, but overall it is what's best for the dog. My sister has 8 little yapper dogs, to take our 50 pound 4 month old puppy would be the dreadfully wrong thing to do. 

See? SOME people have a sense of decency about their dogs. LOL


----------



## greybeard (Nov 27, 2018)

Mini Horses said:


> Really?  I would say something!   Then one would be crated or removed from the house.  My dog, my house, my rules.  Sorry....no one stays & does that.


As would I, but if it were my dog I would not allow it to do that beyond the 1st time.

My b-i-l once had a bunch of small dogs..may have been Jack Russels..I don't remember now. He used them for some form of hunting but when he no longer did that, he sold all but a couple and they became yard/family pets. One...whose name I think was Roscoe was a heel nipper, but only to others who came to visit. B-i-l thought it funny until one holiday morning as the extended  family all arrived, Roscoe drew blood from my sister's ankle. Not badly, but a few days later it became infected and she had to see a dr.
That, was the end of Roscoe, and it wasn't Roscoe's fault..it was his owner's for allowing him to continue to behave that way.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 27, 2018)

RollingAcres said:


> And that's exactly why nothing will/can be said about it because we don't want to get in an argument over a dog...


I guess it just makes me mad that someone cant be a little considerate and show you respect in your home. Makes me wanna for you.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 27, 2018)

Sorry, @High Desert Cowboy for continuing to hijack your thread. You can hijack mine anytime.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 27, 2018)

After this last adventure we won’t be making any trips for a minute.  My parents might be coming down for Christmas with my brother, he’s got a few weeks leave then back to the ship.  I won’t go to their  house, there’s a current feud between me and my vegan activist sister.  She lumps me with the devil for raising pigs for meat (she hasn’t heard about my sheep) and the group she belongs to are nothing more than domestic terrorists.  
Lambert has started to stand up a little for himself, Shaun tried to push him off the hay and Lambert got to butting heads with him.  Good thing he’s going for a month or two


----------



## Rammy (Nov 27, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> After this last adventure we won’t be making any trips for a minute.  My parents might be coming down for Christmas with my brother, he’s got a few weeks leave then back to the ship.  I won’t go to their  house, there’s a current feud between me and my vegan activist sister.  She lumps me with the devil for raising pigs for meat (she hasn’t heard about my sheep) and the group she belongs to are nothing more than domestic terrorists.
> Lambert has started to stand up a little for himself, Shaun tried to push him off the hay and Lambert got to butting heads with him.  Good thing he’s going for a month or two


Let me tell her about the sheep. Can I? Please!  Lemme!  Lemme! 

Just kidding. 

Im all for it if someone wants to be vegan or vegetarian, but dont jump all over someone for eating meat. If we all were vegetarian, what would you do with all those animals? I mean, cows, sheep, pigs tend to have babies. So are these vegans going to take care if them? 
Im sorry you are having a fued about raising animals for consumption. Im sure you would love to resolve things and be a family.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 27, 2018)

I wouldn’t mind it, but the group she belongs to, Direct Action Everywhere, is notorious for breaking into facilities and stealing animals, calling them “rescues”. The worst kind of vegans, do what we want or we’ll steal your stuff.  As I said, domestic terrorism.
Here’s cowboys sale picture I’m putting up tonight.  Let’s see who wants their Christmas lamb


----------



## greybeard (Nov 27, 2018)

Rammy said:


> So the dog means more to her than her own family.




The truth is tho, there are only 2 chances that I would choose my animals over my wife, any of my siblings or any of my 4 spawn. Slim and none.


----------



## Rammy (Nov 27, 2018)

Looks mighty tasty to me.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 27, 2018)

What do they do with the animals that they "rescue"?

That lamb looks chunky but it may be the coat.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 27, 2018)

Their “rescues” go to a “sanctuary” to live out their days in safety and peace.  And hes a chunk, all three lambs are like that, everyone has been getting well fed as I’ve been trying to get Ma back to breeding condition.  She’s old and she was skinny when she got here, so getting her to put weight on while nursing that chunk was an uphill battle.  She’s looking a lot better now, but I think next year I’ll send her down the road.  If nothing else I know people from the Res will buy her, they seem to pick up all th old cull ewes.  For a minute I considered selling her this year but she finally gained the weight.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 27, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Direct Action Everywhere


Headquarters in Berkeley California........why am I not surprised....

They are not vegans. They are beyond vegan..above vegan..over vegan...they are '_them_. Their cutesy newage buzzword for themselves is DxE, not DAE. (I just love newage stuff)
_
In his essay, “Boycott Veganism, DxE founder, Wayne Hsiung, claims:

the concept of veganism is harmful to the animal rights movement. And if you are serious about working for animal liberation, the first thing you should boycott is neither meat nor dairy nor eggs. The first thing you should boycott. . . is veganism.

Harmful? Vegan advocacy is harmful?

Hsiung goes on to explain that he’s not saying it’s okay to eat animals but only that we have to do more than be vegan if we want to do right by the animals. But even though we should be more than vegan, we should not advocate veganism. In fact, we should reject vegan advocacy as “harmful“. Hsiung does not see vegan advocacy as “activism.”_
https://www.abolitionistapproach.co...acy-is-harmful-to-the-animal-rights-movement/


----------



## Baymule (Nov 27, 2018)

What a bunch of wackos. Sorry that you have one in your family.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 28, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> the group she belongs to, Direct Action Everywhere, is notorious for breaking into facilities and stealing animals, calling them “rescues”. The worst kind of vegans, do what we want or we’ll steal your stuff. As I said, domestic terrorism.


I wonder if the girl in the following video is now a member of DAE?





Never mind. I see according to this, that she is indeed a member in good standing. 
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2...-atlas-direct-action-everywhere-snow-chicken/


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 28, 2018)

Yeah they’re bonkers.  You can’t choose family, so you just pick awesome friends and call them family instead


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Nov 28, 2018)

Wow, i knew California has gone over the edge , but these people are totally wacked......well when i think of snow...i think of the  cold ....not food.....i suppose i shoud protest the eating of potatoes...they have eyes, artichokes  have a heart,  corn has a ear...so stupid.....


----------



## Bruce (Nov 29, 2018)

RollingAcres said:


> Her dog nipped at our little pup the other day when they came over for Thanksgiving.


Not acceptable.



RollingAcres said:


> She did "lecture" her dog and gave the dog a stern talk


And the dog heard "Ginger blah blah blah Ginger blah blah blah". 



Rammy said:


> Its my Mom's house, her rules.


Yep. Mom died in 2003, she didn't visit here often since it is 2,500 miles. But when she visited she smoked outside. NO ONE smokes in my house, not even my mother who I would have done anything for.



Baymule said:


> My sister has 8 little yapper dogs, to take our 50 pound 4 month old puppy


Snacks!!!!



Rammy said:


> Im all for it if someone wants to be vegan or vegetarian, but don't jump all over someone for eating meat.


Yep. Like religion. If I don't follow your religion, don't try to sell me on it.



High Desert Cowboy said:


> If nothing else I know people from the Res will buy her, they seem to pick up all the old cull ewes.


Donate her to DxE, tell them you rescued her from death.



greybeard said:


> They are beyond vegan..above vegan..over vegan...they are '_them_.


Read all you posted and can only "say"


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 3, 2018)

So I spent all day Saturday cutting and stacking wood as we had a little snowfall Friday night.  I’d procrastinated for a long while trying to let my back heal up but there comes a time where you gotta grit your teeth and bare it.  Then it snowed pretty good and stuck and it was 3 degrees this morning so winter may officially be here.  Alfalfa the spoiled goat has barely left his duck coop while everyone else seems to enjoy the snow.  Bella has a ball with her first real snowfall and loved it.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 3, 2018)

I don't think I've ever met a dog that didn't love playing in the snow... I'm sure there must be one or two someplace, but I've never met them.  My dogs loved it but after a bit I'd see them start slowing down and walking gingerly. The snow had clumped up in their pads and become ice balls. Pulled them out and they go right back to bouncing around!


----------



## Rammy (Dec 3, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> I don't think I've ever met a dog that didn't love playing in the snow... I'm sure there must be one or two someplace, but I've never met them.  My dogs loved it but after a bit I'd see them start slowing down and walking gingerly. The snow had clumped up in their pads and become ice balls. Pulled them out and they go right back to bouncing around!


You mean Mel doesnt have snow boots?


----------



## Bruce (Dec 3, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> I’d procrastinated for a long while trying to let my back heal up but there comes a time where you gotta grit your teeth and bare it.


Don't blow your back out!


----------



## RollingAcres (Dec 3, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> So I spent all day Saturday cutting and stacking wood as we had a little snowfall Friday night.  I’d procrastinated for a long while trying to let my back heal up but there comes a time where you gotta grit your teeth and bare it.  Then it snowed pretty good and stuck and it was 3 degrees this morning so winter may officially be here.  Alfalfa the spoiled goat has barely left his duck coop while everyone else seems to enjoy the snow.  Bella has a ball with her first real snowfall and loved it.


Take care of your back.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 3, 2018)

Three degrees! Brrrrrr.......


----------



## Rammy (Dec 3, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Three degrees! Brrrrrr.......


No kidding!


----------



## Ridgetop (Dec 3, 2018)

I see I have missed a whole bunch going on here.  I haven't had any alerts about HDC's postings and finally tracked his post down.  Brrr and Brrr from me too.  I thought it was getting cold here when the temperature dropped to 50 from 70 in one day!


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 3, 2018)

Sitting here shivering and the heat is on set to 71°   44° outside right now. Sorry and I should have mentioned it since I too have experienced back issues. They aren'y anything to screw around with. Be careful and let it heal as best you can.


----------



## Rammy (Dec 3, 2018)

Let @Bruce do it.  According to his kids, he doesnt do anything around the house, so maybe he can come help you since he has so much time on his hands. Shoot, he could of swung by when he was in California recently. 
It was CA, right?
Anyway, please be careful. Hard to be a cowboy when you cant rope them nasty steers.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 3, 2018)

Rammy said:


> It was CA, right?


Yes but HDC lives in Utah. I think I was 16 the last (and only) time I've been there.


----------



## Rammy (Dec 3, 2018)

So whats a little sidetrip?


----------



## Bruce (Dec 3, 2018)

Another $1,000 maybe??


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 4, 2018)

So this morning it was up to 6!  Haha it takes some getting used to the cold.  I spent the first several years of my life in California and Texas, so I was not acclimated to the cold.  My first winter in Utah I don’t think I ever took my coat off.
My back is actually feeling better.  I’ve got a bulging disc but between injections, physical therapy, and doctor prescribed yoga I’m actually feeling a lot better.  On days where I’ve gotta shoe a horse or cut wood I just pop a pill or two.  But it’s way better than in June when it was constant endless pain from my back all the way to my toes!


----------



## Baymule (Dec 4, 2018)

You gotta take care of that back! haha, it's gonna be 31* tonight, was 29* last night and I think that's cold! But it will warm up and going to only be lows in the 40's.


----------



## greybeard (Dec 4, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> So this morning it was up to 6! Haha it takes some getting used to the cold. I spent the first several years of my life in California and Texas, so I was not acclimated to the cold. My first winter in Utah I don’t think I ever took my coat off


Just remember, you chose to live there.......as did we all in our own parts of the world.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 4, 2018)

Baymule said:


> haha, it's gonna be 31* tonight, was 29* last night and I think that's cold! But it will warm up and going to only be lows in the 40's.


Pretty darn cold for that area this time of year isn't it?


----------



## greybeard (Dec 4, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Pretty darn cold for that area this time of year isn't it?


It's already been down to 27 here... last month. It don't stay that way long till late Jan thru mid Feb tho.


----------



## Ridgetop (Dec 5, 2018)

Wow!  and I thought it was cold when I went down to pull that lamb in the high 50's.  But you know us southern Californians have thin blood from the year round heat.  We will have to toughen up for Texas.  LOL


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 5, 2018)

You’re right @greybeard i did make my choice to be here.  Now.  As a kid I didn’t get much say but now I could never leave the mountains and I’ve adjusted to the point that the cold isn’t as bad as it was.  One winter the only time we saw double digits was at night when it was -16.  When it got to 20 we were in shirtsleeves commenting on the heat.  Once that thin Los Angeles blood of mine congealed after a few winters I was great.  
I’ve been fortunate to have lived all over, and can safely say that I couldn’t live without mountains, fly fishing in streams in summer, riding all over scouting deer and elk in fall, moving cattle on and off the range in spring and fall.  It’s a good life


----------



## Mike CHS (Dec 5, 2018)

Not to mention your killer views.


----------



## Rammy (Dec 5, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> View attachment 55543 You’re right @greybeard i did make my choice to be here.  Now.  As a kid I didn’t get much say but now I could never leave the mountains and I’ve adjusted to the point that the cold isn’t as bad as it was.  One winter the only time we saw double digits was at night when it was -16.  When it got to 20 we were in shirtsleeves commenting on the heat.  Once that thin Los Angeles blood of mine congealed after a few winters I was great.
> I’ve been fortunate to have lived all over, and can safely say that I couldn’t live without mountains, fly fishing in streams in summer, riding all over scouting deer and elk in fall, moving cattle on and off the range in spring and fall.  It’s a good life


----------



## RollingAcres (Dec 5, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> I’ve been fortunate to have lived all over, and can safely say that I couldn’t live without mountains, fly fishing in streams in summer, riding all over scouting deer and elk in fall, moving cattle on and off the range in spring and fall. It’s a good life


Sounds great to me!
Love that view!


----------



## Ridgetop (Dec 6, 2018)

Live where your heart is and you can't go wrong.  The thought of living in a "normal" neighborhood or worse - an apartment - makes my blood run cold.  Of course, not as cold as your temps right now, but downright chilly nevertheless.

Anyway, that is what heating is for, (like AC for Texans and Californians) and when you are outside you are working so you are moving around and don't feel it that much.  Except for constant rain when you never dry out, like Seattle when I lived there.  Rain is nice for a while, cold is bearable with more clothes and heaters, sunny weather is pleasant, but the peace and privilege of living away from people is unbeatable.  You are lucky to have your job close too, and not have to commute like a lot of people who want to live with space around them.

Probably why, at the age when most people sell their homes and move to a nice little condo, we are looking at moving to a larger ranch.  Or we may have finally been driven crazy by the California liberals! 
  No, we are sensible ranch people like all the rest of the BYHers!     A good producing well with sweet water is my next dream.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 7, 2018)

I figured in California right now a well producing any water was a dream come true!  My grandpa still lives in Reseda and his biggest gripe is lack of water anymore.  He says a lot of wells that have run for a century have had to be drilled deeper or dried up.  Between that and California’s recent declaration of war on good old fashioned American breakfast of bacon and eggs I figured he’d have headed my way by now but he’s been in that house for near 60 years and refuses to leave.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 7, 2018)

People can get real attached to their home. It holds all sorts of memories for him. It's home. Anything else, anywhere else, would just be a house.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Dec 7, 2018)

What it was with my Dad was familiarity, routine, and comfortability.....anything new or different was always met with a negative response. We all seem to get comfortable in our own "little world" and get upset when something changes. The older we get the less desire there is to learn something new.....


----------



## Rammy (Dec 7, 2018)

Its against the law to eat bacon and eggs in CA?  say it aint so........


----------



## greybeard (Dec 7, 2018)

CntryBoy777 said:


> The older we get the less desire there is to learn something new.....


Not always. Some are equally or even more driven to learn when they get older than when younger.


----------



## Ridgetop (Dec 7, 2018)

The San Fernando Valley (where Reseda is located) hasn't had wells since the 30's or so when Mulholland and his cronies worked the water deal bringing water from the Owens Valley in the eastern Sierras.  The city then claimed all water rights and made everyone cap their wells.   

We still can get bacon and eggs here. However, I don't remember whether or not it passed, but there was a measure n the last ballot requiring all eggs sold to come from free range chickens instead of battery chickens.  It was some kind of animal rights thing.  Egg prices will be untouchable in 2020.  I also saw on the news that in 2020 we will be required to put solar on all the new homes and possibly install it when you buy a home.  That wasn't too clear.  What is clear is that we are being regulated, taxed, and priced out of California.  The only people living here in 20 years will be welfare people, homeless, illegals, and Oh Yes, the politicians and movie stars who are living the good life in their walled estates.


----------



## Rammy (Dec 7, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> The San Fernando Valley (where Reseda is located) hasn't had wells since the 30's or so when Mulholland and his cronies worked the water deal bringing water from the Owens Valley in the eastern Sierras.  The city then claimed all water rights and made everyone cap their wells.
> 
> We still can get bacon and eggs here. However, I don't remember whether or not it passed, but there was a measure n the last ballot requiring all eggs sold to come from free range chickens instead of battery chickens.  It was some kind of animal rights thing.  Egg prices will be untouchable in 2020.  I also saw on the news that in 2020 we will be required to put solar on all the new homes and possibly install it when you buy a home.  That wasn't too clear.  What is clear is that we are being regulated, taxed, and priced out of California.  The only people living here in 20 years will be welfare people, homeless, illegals, and Oh Yes, the politicians and movie stars who are living the good life in their walled estates.




I was going to post a big ol' rant about some things but thought I better not do that on HDC's thread.  Those laws on "free range" are very vague<sp>. In some places what is considered free range is just the chickens ability to poke its head out a hole and see the sky. Doesnt mean the chicken gets to run around in the sun. Personally, Im glad your getting out of there. Sounds like CA will be for the rich, poor, and illegal someday.


----------



## Ridgetop (Dec 7, 2018)

Point taken - this regulation was to allow chickens to wander in a field since the last regulations allowing them 9 sf per chicken was apparently too small.   

Speaking of "free range" has anyone seen the ad selling chickens that are purported to be raised naturally in a field?  After showing acres of ground with abut 12 chickens in a fenced pasture, the blurb comes up saying these free range chickens being raised on a "vegetarian diet"!  

Apparently there are no bugs in that pristine green pasture for those vegetarian chickens to eat!  Who writes these things?  Must be the same people who think that chickens can only be happy and healthy in a large field.  I wonder if they feel any compassion for the chicken farmers they are forcing out of business.  On the other hand, the coyote population must be thrilled!


----------



## Bruce (Dec 7, 2018)

Yep, there is no such thing as a vegetarian chicken unless it is kept in a basically sterile environment. One fly, one spider and oops, the chicken is no longer a vegetarian.


----------



## Rammy (Dec 7, 2018)

Cannibal chickens. Coming to a store near you.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 7, 2018)

That is kinda what DD1 thinks of when I give chicken bones to the girls to clean. No "one" they knew of course since we don't off the hens when they slack in the laying dept.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Dec 7, 2018)

Yeh, they never show what is inside those big white buildings they are walking next to...........tho, they are targeting the "brain dead" that can't think for theirself and believe everything that they are taught.....global climate change and junk science....just simply amazing, ain't it?


----------



## Rammy (Dec 7, 2018)

Yep.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 8, 2018)

I was referring to your prop 12 that did pass.  It applies to chickens, veal calves and pigs.  All sows  are required to have 20 square feet available.  Most folks are still using gestation crates, we swapped to pen gestation but that’s going to hurt a lot of people.  And it’s gonna jack the price of eggs and pork products higher in the state.  Guess either spend more money on real food or enjoy your scrambled kale and soy bacon


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 9, 2018)

Still no takers for cowboy.  I’m debating if I should haul him to the auction or just harvest him myself.  Probably really not worth the time to take one lamb and I’m not out much if I keep him.  
In the meantime I’m stuck on my couch for a while.  After a week of coughing hacking and wheezing my wife made me go to a doctor.  Pneumonia.  Apparently this pushing through and figuring it would resolve itself in a few days was a poor decision.  My wife has stepped up and taken on all the chores while all I can do is lay here worrying she’s doing it right.  My New Years resolution is not having so many health issues in 2019.  I’m too young for this


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Dec 9, 2018)

Sorry to hear that HDC.........just have to be more aware of conditions ya subject yourself to and properly prepare for the elements to be faced.....pushing thru can bring consequences.....and it doesn't get easier or better as ya age....sometimes delaying the things ya think have to get done is better left to a better day.....ya gotta listen to the body.....


----------



## Bruce (Dec 9, 2018)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> My wife has stepped up and taken on all the chores while all I can do is lay here worrying she’s doing it right.


She's doing it right enough, stay on the sofa!


----------



## Rammy (Dec 9, 2018)

Agree with @Bruce. Wife is doing just fine. Dont mess with pnuemonia. Take care of yourself. Do what the Dr says.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 9, 2018)

Hey... a man's gotta know his limitations.  Sometimes "pushin' through" just aint what you should do. Sorry to hear you've got pneumonia. That's nothing to screw around with as it can kill ya. I'm sure your significant other will get things done just fine. May not be exactly the way you'd do it, but I'm sure hoping it will be more than adequate. You need to take this serious and get yourself healed up. Get well quick!


----------



## Baymule (Dec 9, 2018)

Bone headed man.....but at least you listened to your wife! Get well and take care of yourself.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Dec 13, 2018)

Hope you are doing better! I was trying to push through and found out the fatigue was caused by pregnancy!


----------



## Bruce (Dec 13, 2018)

Um, is this an announcement? Or have I just forgotten? Or "in the past"?


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Dec 13, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Um, is this an announcement? Or have I just forgotten? Or "in the past"?



The announcement is in my journal.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 13, 2018)

Just saw it. Clearly I am not reading the threads in proper order!


----------



## Baymule (Dec 13, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> Hope you are doing better! I was trying to push through and found out the fatigue was caused by pregnancy!


Well if HDC is pregnant, something backfired.....


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Dec 13, 2018)

Oh Bay! Thanks for the laugh!


----------



## Bruce (Dec 13, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Well if HDC is pregnant, something backfired.....


Sure did!!!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 21, 2018)

Well I’m alive and somewhat on the mend.  No pregnancies here.  But congratulations on your developing addition.  I’m at the fun stage where my doctor says I’m coughing up all the leftover crud from my pneumonia, so I spend a lot of time coughing until everything hurts.  
My wife did a pretty good job letting me rest, though my daughters were so excited about daddy being home all day little rest was had.  I only had to drag myself outside once to catch Alfalfa.  Clever goat got loose and my wife couldn’t get him to come to her so I had to do that part.  I think he’d been out most of the night, but when she noticed he was just standing there looking at the house, probably planning his break in.  The guy I got him from told me that alfalfa escaped one summer and managed to get through the sliding screen door, they came home to a goat on the couch.


----------



## Rammy (Dec 21, 2018)

I was just thinking about you last night wondering how you were feeling and if you were feeling better. Please dont over do it when you THINK you feel better. This stuff lingers for a while. Take it slow if you can. I know you said your daughter isnt letting you get much rest, which is understandable being a child, they bounce off the walls.  But please try. When I was married, my now ex had  double pneumonia, and he took forever getting over it because he didnt follow the doctors orders.  Get as much rest as you can.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 21, 2018)

Much as it hurts, coughing all that gunk up and out is a good thing. One time I was in an ER and a kid was in with breathing issues and the docs had him laying on his belly with the table tilted "head down" and they were "clapping" him on the back up and down with cupped hands, over where his lungs would be. The idea being to loosen the crap inside so he could cough it up. Though they were also giving him a breathing treatment of some sort at the same time. Have often wondered if we could just hang upside down like bats for a while and maybe that would help it drain out faster. Stretch out our backs at the same time. Like one of those "Teeter hang up" machines.

Get better man, best as you can.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 21, 2018)

If I were hung upside down it would not be junk from my lungs coming out, it would be from my stomach!


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 21, 2018)




----------



## Baymule (Dec 23, 2018)

Please do take care of yourself. When you do feel better, don't get up and over do it or you will be right back down again. Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 2, 2019)

I’m alive and healthy!  Next time I’ve got a cold I’ll actually rest a little to get better as opposed to try and push through and get much, much worse.  Updates around here, Cowboy still hasn’t been sold but my wife is trying to talk me into trying for a little while longer.  Lambert will be leaving us for a few weeks starting today, my friend wants to use him to breed his ewes.  Horses are fat and happy.  Alfalfa the spoiled goat was evicted from his duck coop on Monday.  He doesn’t do well with the sheep as they steal his alfalfa and he won’t lower his standards to eating three way hay, so he has his own spot with his own little lean-to, a marvel of farmer engineering. Two pallets, two old fence posts, some scrap plywood, baling  twine and an old folding table for a roof.  He loves it, so that’s all that matters.  His eviction was brought on by our newest additions, chickens.  My parents are moving to Oklahoma and don’t want to travel with any animals besides their dogs, so I got 4 Sussex, 3 bags of feed, 2 big white Brahmas, and a mealworm Farm in some rubber maid totes.  I rigged the duck coop up to be chicken approved and they seem to like it.  My mother spoiled the heck out of these girls (I mean a meal worm farm just for their snacking pleasure) and they refuse to step foot out of their coop into the cold.  Between them and the goat it’s worse and worse, next thing you know the sheep will want back rubs.  Course it has been chilly, it was -2 this morning.  And of course there were the dogs sleeping out in the open within 5 feet of their dog house.  Nobody roughs it like those two, and that dog house is at times a waste of money.  For the first 2 years Kya wouldn’t go into it, she’d just sleep underneath the horse trailer if it snowed.  Now every time I say I’m giving it to the goat suddenly her and Bella are huddled up in there on a 40 degree day.  -2 and Kya is on a piece of plywood and Bella’s asleep in her big rubber feed dish, nowhere near each other.  Dogs!


----------



## RollingAcres (Jan 2, 2019)

Glad to hear that you are all healthy and well!
Looks like you've got some nice addition there.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 2, 2019)

Good to hear from you, next time you get sick, take a little better care of yourself! More animals, that's what everyone needs! LOL LOL


----------



## Ridgetop (Jan 3, 2019)

Pneumonia can sneak up on you when you try to push through.  I have had it until suddenly you can't breath, walk or anything.  By then it is really bad.  On the other hand, go to the doctor too soon and he sends you home with a warning to drink fluids and take an aspirin.  

Meal worm farm to  provide treats for the chickens!   The chickens will adapt to farm life soon enough.  And now that you have a coop, you can continue getting eggs.  I wonder what the Prop 12 space requirements are for mealworms?  Oh right, lucky for you, you are not in California.

On the other hand, that stupid proposition prevents the sale in California of any animals or animal products not produced according to California's Prop 12.  Yes that means our eggs and meat will go sky high.  Sadly, I have an allergy to bird dander so we gave up keeping chickens 10 year ago.    Cleaning their coop would have me coughing for 3-4 months!  We called it lung rot.  Then my mother was diagnosed with bird lung and I figured out that I probably have the same lungs.  However we may have to invest in a coop and chickens.  I won't be able to clean it, and the grandkids will have to gather the eggs every day!  That might work.  I have seen plans for a bottomless coop on wheels that you move around and then plant your garden on the space where the coop was parked.  Might work.  I wonder what soy eggs taste like?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 18, 2019)

Well we’ve had lots of snow and rain lately, and our snowpack is slightly above average which I’ll call a win.  Work and kids have kept me so busy I haven’t had much time to get on and say hi to everyone, but I promise I’m still alive.  Critters are all good, though my chickens are currently freeloaders. I need to get a light out there soon.  I’m thinking of moving the coop and digging a trench this spring to lay some water and electrical out to my corrals with a stop at the chickens.  
If it continues to stay this cold I may harvest cowboy in the next week or so, depending on what free time I can find.  
So I’m here, I’m alive and I’ll try to jump on and update with a little more regularity


----------



## greybeard (Jan 19, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> I wonder what the Prop 12 space requirements are for mealworms?


probably can't keep them in any kind of container as it seems they, like everything else will have to be 'free range' meal worms. (are meal worms gluten free?)
I noticed that veal calves now have to be raised in a box 3' x 15' or 4' x 11 1/4"...


----------



## Rammy (Jan 19, 2019)

Glad your doing ok. I was wondering how you had been. Hope your still taking it easy, though, since you are probably still getting over that pnuemonia. Running electric and water lines is a good idea. I have it run from my house to the barn and it sure saves time. And your back from having to haul water!


----------



## Baymule (Jan 19, 2019)

Running water lines is a luxury that you don't realize how wonderful they are, until you actually have them. We had 1 faucet at the front of the house and 1 at the back of the house. We ran water lines to the sheep barn, horse barn and garden. What a blessing!


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jan 19, 2019)

Glad all are doing good there for ya and hope ya get the moisture that is needed.....


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 22, 2019)

Hauling water buckets gets old fast! So hopefully it’s my last year doing so.  It’s cold and going to stay cold for the rest of the week, and if a last minute offer falls through I plan on harvesting Cowboy the wether lamb tomorrow.  That way he can hang a few days and I’ll butcher him up this weekend.  Now a disagreement has come about and I’m hoping someone has answers.  When butchering a deer I generally give my dogs some organ meat (livers mine, everything else is fair game) and the lower leg portions to gnaw on.  I got friends who say that’ll teach the dogs to kill sheep, I say where there was no “hunt” before they got the goodies that won’t cause them to kill sheep.  Anyone have experience in this?


----------



## Bruce (Jan 22, 2019)

I have no experience but it sounds like an urban myth to me. I assume you are giving them the leg after the sheep has been skinned. It should not look like "on the hoof" dinner. I am, however, willing to be told I'm wrong.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Jan 22, 2019)

Just saying that when we castrate calves and dehorn with scoops, we throw the dogs the parts and they don’t attack the cattle. We’ve also had dogs clean up any leftover afterbirth and even helped dry kids/calves without eating them. I think it’ll be fine.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Jan 22, 2019)

I don't think it will matter.....hope they enjoy it and you do too!!.....


----------



## Baymule (Jan 22, 2019)

I butcher chickens and flip the guts to the dogs. The dogs wait for their treats and will eat until they are stuffed. They NEVER go after the chickens, even though they watch the chicken go from live to dead and cleaned.


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 23, 2019)

I'm with the herd on this one... what nonsense really... By all means share the wealth with the dogs! If you're really that concerned, you can always take everything and cook it and add some rice to make a "dog food" out of it. Refrigerate it and add some to their meals. You'll have some very happy dogs either way!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 23, 2019)

Cowboy was the first lamb born here.  A total surprise as I didn’t know his mom was pregnant when I bought her, but I later noticed she bagged up and watched her until he was born. Today he became the first animal we’ve raised for harvest, and I feel like we’ve accomplished something.  I sent the hide with a friend who does tanning and the dogs have assorted treats being cut up and prepared for them.  Come Saturday I’ll butcher him.


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Jan 23, 2019)

Our dogs are on a raw diet, eggs, meat....they don't  hunt the animals here...that's  my job


----------



## Baymule (Jan 23, 2019)

Doesn't it feel good to raise your own meat? I like that you are utilizing the offal and saving the hide too. good for you!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 28, 2019)

The dogs have been enjoying the additions to their meals, as well as some company.  Kya is in heat and my neighbors dog Jessie held a vigil outside the dog run for 5 days straight, following her around on the outside trying to figure out how to get to her.  Makes feeding a little awkward and poor Bella was cooped up with her, I wasn’t going to try letting one out while keeping the other in with a third trying to get in.  But they could finally get out yesterday and had a ball.  My lamb has been hanging in the garage and Saturday wound up not happening so the goal is to butcher today.  I’m going to try and get my boy to help me out a little, he was supposed to be helping me harvest the lamb but the moment blood hit the bucket he was gone.  I guess I didn’t start him young enough.  
With Cowboy hanging and Lambert off servicing ewes it’s strange, I keep looking at my sheep and panicking that I’m missing some.  But my feed bill is down two sheep. Ideally I’ll get enough lambs this year to pay for their feed.  That’s the plan at least, but who knows.  
I don’t need more freeloaders like those darn chicken!


----------



## Bruce (Jan 28, 2019)

The chickens will get back on the job soon!


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 30, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> I’m going to try and get my boy to help me out a little, he was supposed to be helping me harvest the lamb but the moment blood hit the bucket he was gone. I guess I didn’t start him young enough.


 Though my son is quite good, shot to fry pan, my daughters are no slouches either. My oldest daughter routinely helped me butcher deer when her younger siblings were still crawling...


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 4, 2019)

I need to buy a better butcher set if I’m gonna keep doing my own animals.  Overall it wasn’t bad but my poor chops suffered and 2 wound up in the ground pile.  But he gave a pretty fair amount of meat and some good dog snacks.  I even let the cats pick the some parts clean.
I’ve had Bro and Jack separated for several months now as I’ve been trying to put some meat back on Bro.  They were finally reunited yesterday as Bro has filled out.  I’m not sure if Jack was happier to be back with him for the company or for the better feed.  And hopefully Bro can keep some weight on his skinny Arab butt.


----------



## greybeard (Feb 4, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> When butchering a deer I generally give my dogs some organ meat (livers mine, everything else is fair game) and the lower leg portions to gnaw on. I got friends who say that’ll teach the dogs to kill sheep,


I've heard it said, but never heard it from anyone that actually had it happen.
It's always .."I knew a guy that had a friend, whose cousin was married to a guy that fed guts to his dogs and they started killing...."


----------



## Baymule (Feb 4, 2019)

I bought a starved mare from a kill pen and have been giving her beet shreds soaked in water to soften them up. Had her 3 months and she went from skeletal to becoming nicely rounded. She also gets a 14% pellet and all the hay she wants. Maybe the beet shreds would help your horse.


----------



## Bruce (Feb 4, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> And hopefully Bro can keep some weight on his skinny Arab butt.


Hay burners for sure, high metabolism I think.


----------



## Ridgetop (Feb 4, 2019)

Some horses are easy keepers and some are not.  The higher the protein in the ration, the leaner the animal.  When we were getting first and second cutting hay for our dairy goats, they were giving us a very high yield.   BUT we were feeding our saddle horses the same high protein hay, it was summer, and the kids (and we) were riding almost every day,  The horses lost so much weight I was worried that the animal control people would come out and impound them!  We kept increasing their hay ration but they just kept getting skinnier.  Finally someone suggested that the hay was too rich for them.  We switched to a much lower quality alfalfa and added some oat/barley hay mix.  They put in weight in no time. 

I felt incredibly stupid since I was teaching the 4-H project kids about the importance of feeding the appropriate ration for weight gain and holding fair animals at the proper weight!  DUH!!!


----------



## greybeard (Feb 4, 2019)

People test hay and look for protein but tend to pay too little attention to the fat #s.


----------



## Ridgetop (Feb 6, 2019)

Agreed, but testing hay is usually out of touch cost wise for the people that are buying 1 ton or less at a time. If you have enough animals, you should buy by the field, and then do the testing.  We used to buy the second cutting from the fields that had sold the first cut to dairies, that way the dairy did the testing and we knew we were getting  premium alfalfa.  however, since we ere feeding high yield dairy goats, we were supplementing with rain wen they were in milk.  We fed pound for pound grain to milk, then cut back little by little on the grain until they were stabilized on their maximum production and styed there.  This is (like all dairy production) labor tensive, but we got maximum production for minimum cost.

Wouldn't work for a large commercial style dairy, but they usually buy by the field and test their hay anyway.


----------



## greybeard (Feb 6, 2019)

It must be different in your neck of the woods. 
I can get any kind of hay tested for way less than what a single 5x5 round bale currently costs. Random cores from 10-20 bales, put them all in a ziplock bag a mail them off.  If you need 100 bales tested, a composite sample  from every 20 bales Around $20 per sample  (plus whatever a gallon sized ziplock bag of hay costs to mail or UPS) for NIR sent to West Texas TAMU, Canyon Tx and about the same if sent to Weld in Colorado. 
NIR= DM, CP, SP, RDP, ADICP, NDICP, est. lysine and methionine, ADF, NDF, lignin, starch, WSC, ESC (simple sugars), NFC, fat, ash, RFV, RFQ, (w/ 48hr NDFD), TDN, NEl, NEm, NEg, ME, DE, Ca, P, Mg, K, S, Cl.
Results are emailed back or US Postal mailed, customer's choice.


----------



## Bruce (Feb 6, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> however, since we ere feeding high yield dairy goats, we were *supplementing with rain *wen they were in milk.


If that would actually work! What a cost saving


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 7, 2019)

Bro’s always been a hard keeper and I’ve put him on every type of hay available.  But he’s a good horse so I keep him around.
We’ve had such a nice mild winter with occasional snow that quickly melted the next day.  Now as my ewes are starting to show it dumps snow on us, and this time, it’s here to stay.  It’s wonderful we’re getting much needed moisture but I swear sometimes the big man upstairs has it out for me.  But we’ll push on and all will be well, ideally.
The snow has also led to terrible traps and I had to give my boy quite the talking to.  He and his buddies had dug a large hole in the ground and spent the summer keeping toads in it.  Well before it snowed he covered it with a rubber mat, we still don’t know why.  So imagine my surprise to be walking through 6 inches of pure snow and suddenly hit a pit fall while carrying a bucket of water.  I’m pretty sure everyone within a 100 miles could hear my string of expletives.  I got inside with a sore knee and soaking wet and I know my boy had put two and two together as he was nowhere to be found.  Kids, you gotta love em but they may kill you first.


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Feb 7, 2019)

Sorry you fell into the hole, but reading it I almost fell over  laughing with the image your story created. Hope your knee is ok.


----------



## Bruce (Feb 7, 2019)

Clearly your son needed to put stakes around the pit and "do not cross tape" around it!


----------



## greybeard (Feb 7, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Clearly your son needed to put stakes around the pit and "do not cross tape" around it!


Just as long as he doesn't put stakes IN the pit..or snakes either for that matter....


----------



## Bruce (Feb 7, 2019)

No punji sticks!


----------



## Ridgetop (Feb 7, 2019)

Reminded me of the time at our old house when  did daycare.  It was summer and the kids were digging with their Tonka trucks.  They had a giant hole in the yard and DH was working late.  I called them in, bathed and fed them and they were arguing about bedtime when Daddy came home.   His dinner was in the oven waiting so he decided to go feed his rabbits in the yard while I put the kids to bed.  Just like you there was a crash, a scream of pain, followed by a stream of language.  The children looked at me, I looked back, then they silently turned and raced for bed.  DH limped into the house, I gave him coffee, his dinner, and sympathy.  The next day I made the kids fill in the hole.

Aaah, memories!


----------



## Baymule (Feb 7, 2019)

That's funny. Kids have a great time digging in dirt. Pity the poor, "clean" children that don't know the pleasures of dirt. 

Snow covering up the hole is what did you in. I would have laughed if I was there in person, watching you take a pratfall, water bucket and all!


----------



## greybeard (Feb 7, 2019)

I once had a big rear wheel from a tractor for a 'fire pit' in the back yard. Walked out of the shop in the dark about 1 am one morning going to the house and tripped over the first edge of it and dropped down hard on both shins down on the opposite edge. That thing went to the scrap yard next trip I made.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 7, 2019)

greybeard said:


> I once had a big rear wheel from a tractor for a 'fire pit' in the back yard. Walked out of the shop in the dark about 1 am one morning going to the house and tripped over the first edge of it and dropped down hard on both shins down on the opposite edge. That thing went to the scrap yard next trip I made.


That had to HURT!


----------



## Ridgetop (Feb 7, 2019)

I can feel the bruises!


----------



## greybeard (Feb 7, 2019)

I think the dents in my shin bones are still there.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 14, 2019)

@greybeard ”God have us shins to find the trailer hitch in the dark.”
Well the snow stopped and is melting a little but I wish the temperature would make up its mind.  One day we’re lucky if it’s 10, then it’s 40, then 20, then 30.  I’d appreciate a consistent temperature, especially one that would allow for thawing of troughs and hoses.  Also it’s be nice to have a few nice days to clean out the garage for possible lambing use.  And to crutch the ewes.  But the good news is we’re getting the moisture we desperately need


----------



## greybeard (Feb 14, 2019)

I can find it fine nowadays, even at night.I turn on the light inside the truck and pull it out from under the back seat where I've painfully learned to keep it when I don't actually have a trailer hooked up.


----------



## RollingAcres (Feb 14, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Pity the poor, "clean" children that don't know the pleasures of dirt.


Or mud, or puddle


----------



## Bruce (Feb 14, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Well the snow stopped and is melting a little but I wish the temperature would make up its mind. One day we’re lucky if it’s 10, then it’s 40, then 20, then 30.


Why should you get special treatment?  Seems like everyone is on the temperature roller coaster this winter.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 14, 2019)

It's in the mid 70's this week. Beautiful days!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 15, 2019)

So we had surprise visitors last night.  Bella was barking and carrying on in the direction of Alfalfa.  I stepped outside and heard something big crunching around by the goat house.  Poor Alfalfa has two big cows who decided to invite themselves over for dinner.  I called my neighbor up and told him his cows were out and stood in the cold with them until he got there so they wouldn’t wander off.  Poor guy pulls up in pajamas and muck boots to find out they’re not his, it’s another neighbor who I didn’t know has 2 cows.  My neighbor’s calving grounds are right across the road, it just made sense they’d be his.  So being good neighbors that we are, we push the cows over to the owners in the dark in our pajamas and muck boots and knock on the door, they refuse to answer.  Lights are on, people inside, but they can’t be bothered.  They’re from that Hildale/Canyon City group, they’re not the most social people.  But their whole property is fenced so we just closed the gate and hoped they didn’t come speeding into their driveway and take their gate out.   And then I had to add to poor Alfalfa’s feed pan, poor guy never had a chance.  Fortunately it was just his feed, if they’d gotten into my hay bales I might’ve been a little more irritated about wandering out into the rainy night in my PJs


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Feb 15, 2019)

Had to laugh at the visual, you are a great neighbor....


----------



## Baymule (Feb 15, 2019)

At least you have a good neighbor. Neighbors that are too good for the neighborhood ought to go back where they came from.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 15, 2019)

I did leave out one part.  My neighbor found the hole in the dark!
So sad news time, I came home from work today and all the ewes were waiting to be fed.  While I was feeding I noticed Kya sniffing at something on the fence line, and upon investigation I found a dead ewe lamb.Everybody’s up and eating and no one seems out of sorts, I can’t really tell who’s it was though I’ve got it narrowed down to two.  Great way to start


----------



## Rammy (Feb 15, 2019)

So sorry you lost a lamb. Poor thing.


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Feb 15, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> I did leave out one part.  My neighbor found the hole in the dark!
> So sad news time, I came home from work today and all the ewes were waiting to be fed.  While I was feeding I noticed Kya sniffing at something on the fence line, and upon investigation I found a dead ewe lamb.Everybody’s up and eating and no one seems out of sorts, I can’t really tell who’s it was though I’ve got it narrowed down to two.  Great way to start



 sorry, that is a lousy way to start the weekend,


----------



## Baymule (Feb 15, 2019)

That sucks. I hate losing babies.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 19, 2019)

Bellwether the PITA ewe has redeemed herself!  Went and checked the ewes before work and there were 3 beautiful black lambs hanging with mama.  I kept telling my wife with her size she’s be having triplets.   All lambs were dry and happy looking, I’ll have to decide this afternoon who’s getting pulled off to bottlefeed though.  I’ll post pictures later when it gets light


----------



## Bruce (Feb 19, 2019)

Is it possible she can feed all three?


----------



## Rammy (Feb 19, 2019)

Congrats.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 19, 2019)

Maybe you could leave them with her and just supplement with a bottle.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 19, 2019)

My reasons for wanting to bottle feed are three fold.
First I work 11 hours a day and my wife is currently nursing our 6 month old baby with the 4 and 2 year olds in the house being overly helpful.  She won’t be able to keep as close an eye on triplets as I’d like and I’d prefer they had more access to supplementation throughout the day, not just the evening.
Second it’s supposed to get cold for the next several days with snow and I know she’ll do better taking care of 2 babies as opposed to three.
Third isn’t really the greatest reason but my friend who sold me Heart and the twins generally bottle raises lambs each year.  His little boy is currently bottle feeding a lamb that had frostbite in its hind legs and has lost both hind feet.  He’s keeping it alive thus far but the animal would be better off euthanized.  One of the triplets would be his replacement.
If things were different, better weather, better timing with my own kids I’d definitely make a go at raising triplets but for now I believe it would be better for those lambs and that ewe to only have two on teat and know they’re getting what they need rather than three and risk the others.


----------



## Bruce (Feb 19, 2019)

Will your wife have time to bottle feed the third or are you saying you will take it soon to your friend to bottle feed?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 20, 2019)

My wife wouldn’t be able to bottle feed The third.  I got home yesterday and one of the babies was clearly behind the other two, didn’t look as full and nowhere near the energy of the other two.  They were all ewe lambs by the way.  So I called my friend over and they took her.  She had nursed a little, but she wasn’t getting what the other two were getting.
We have a winter storm warning in effect, with cold temps last night and predicted at least 10 inches of snow today into tomorrow.  So I MacGyvered a jug in the garage and put a heat lamp up for the babies.  We’re getting some desperately needed moisture I just wish it wasn’t more snow.  Snow on the mountain, rain in the valleys is preferable but I won’t complain.  Last time we griped it didn’t rain for years


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 20, 2019)




----------



## Baymule (Feb 20, 2019)

They sure are cute. You did the right thing for the little ewe lamb.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 23, 2019)

Update on the third lamb.  She spent two days in the house being syringe fed, and she is apparently now doing better.  Her sisters are doing fantastic and are happy and warm in the garage pen.  Our weather is now clear with negative temps last night and now a steady climb to the 40’s.  No other lambs yet, but triplets usually come a little earlier apparently.  So we should see some in the next week


----------



## Bruce (Feb 24, 2019)

Great to hear all 3 are doing well.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Feb 25, 2019)

I wouldn’t discredit replacing a kiddos lamb with one that stands a chance. The distraction would mean the world to my kiddos. Pulling a baby just for that reason wouldn’t be fair but when you consider all of the other reasons then she didn’t appear to be keeping up, you got your reassurance that you made the right decision.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 3, 2019)

So today we had another addition, our oldest ewe Ma had a healthy baby ram.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 3, 2019)

Nice!


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Mar 3, 2019)

Those numbers are increasing....


----------



## Baymule (Mar 3, 2019)

Look at that cute face! Congrats on the ram lamb!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 19, 2019)

Spring is in the air!  Or at least I hope it is we’re getting in the upper 50’s and Shaun is rubbing his winter coat off on the fence.  If only the others could do that!  I’ve already got one baby sold to a Muslim family for their next big holiday, told them to tell their friends I’ve got another one.  But of course my children have named them all, the little ram lamb is Buckwheat and my 4 year old named the ewe lambs Pinkie Pie and Twilight Sparkle.  Their coats are interesting, the little ram lamb and the one my friend’s kid is bottle feeding are kind of white wooly under black while the two little ewes I’ve got are black and slick haired.
This will probably be Ma’s last year with us.  She was old when I bought her but she was in decent shape to train dogs so I brought her home and she’s done good with a surprise lamb last year and her little guy this year.  You can tell this lamb took a lot out of her.  Ill keep one of the triplets as a future replacement and it’ll keep me at 4 ewes for now.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 19, 2019)

Also Kya managed to get some unsupervised alone time with Jessie at some point or he got her through the fence.  But she’s pregnant and we can expect puppies in the near future


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Mar 19, 2019)

I was just thinking of ya the other day and if ya were getting moisture from the systems passing thru....enough to ease the water concerns.........sure glad things are on the upswing for ya.....may have to put some hot wire up to keep both off the fence.....


----------



## Baymule (Mar 19, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> But of course my children have named them all, the little ram lamb is Buckwheat and my 4 year old named the ewe lambs Pinkie Pie and Twilight Sparkle.



I love it! The names are so cute. Our middle grand daughter, 3 years old last year, named out feeder pigs Piper and Poodle. This year, now 4, she named a ewe lamb Pickle. I really like Pinkie Pie!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 23, 2019)

So we had a scare the other night.  The dogs were barking and I stepped outside assuming the neighbor’s cows were getting into the hay again.  Just as I stepped out I can hear Alfalfa screaming and a scuffle in the dark.  I ran back and grabbed a gun and flashlight and just catch the dogs fleeing the scene.  Fortunately my coming outside scared them off before it got too out of hand but Alfalfa had a bloody wound and slobber on his neck.  Fortunately Alfalfa is just fine for the most part, just a little shaken up so he’s been spoiled the last few days.  And the dogs are never coming back again.  So hopefully it’ll never happen again but from now on my first response will be a gun and flashlight.  As Woodrow F Call says “It’s better to have that and not need it than to need it and not have it.”


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Mar 23, 2019)

I’m glad Alfalfa will be okay and that further issues won’t occur!


----------



## Baymule (Mar 23, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> And the dogs are never coming back again.


SSS?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 24, 2019)

I watched where they went and went over after I was sure Alfalfa was ok.  A neighbors brother was house sitting and had brought his dogs with him.  He left them out without closing the main gate and wouldn’t respond when I came knocking on the door.  I was somewhat calm until I knew he was in the house avoiding me and the dogs were still out so I called the cops.  They took care of the dog problem and when my neighbor got back he felt terrible his brothers dogs had got to Alfalfa.  It wasn’t his fault so I don’t blame him.
On a happier note Kya went into labor this morning so far we have 5 puppies!


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Mar 24, 2019)

Oh my!!.....ya know we'll be waiting on some pics.......


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Mar 24, 2019)

Puppy breath!!!!! 

Glad the cops handled it and Alfalfa will be okay.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 24, 2019)

Final count 8 total


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Mar 24, 2019)




----------



## Bruce (Mar 24, 2019)

Puppies!


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Mar 24, 2019)

Oh how sweet puppy breath is


----------



## Mike CHS (Mar 24, 2019)

That is also a nice picture.


----------



## Baymule (Mar 24, 2019)

glad the dog problem was resolved. He's lucky you didn't shoot them. 

Adorable puppies, I am a sucker for that blue merle color.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 27, 2019)

I couldn’t get a good shot they took off through the horses and I won’t risk that.  So we can’t count there were 9 puppies, one was squirreled away under everyone else.  It’s spring so here’s some lamb pictures


----------



## Baymule (Mar 27, 2019)

Those are such pretty lambs!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 29, 2019)

Thanks @Baymule i really like the two ewes.  I guess they’re still triplets without the third but two triplets sounds weird and twins is incorrect.  I’ll for sure keep one for future breeding purposes maybe both depending on how things look when the time comes. They’re fun to watch playing and Bella has a huge soft spot for lambs.  She’s quick to grip the older ewes and I was a little nervous how she’d be around the lambs but she sniffed them once and then started licking their heads.  Maybe that’ll help them grow up to be less belligerent than the old ewes, who knows. 
Spring is here but we woke up to snow on the ground so I’ll probably put shearing off for another week or so, besides I have plenty to do with my weekend.  I’m planning to trim my horses, clean out the garage and hopefully finally start building a small round pen for herding lessons. Start digging a hole for where I’ll tie in a water line to have an idea of where it’s at exactly.  Of course all those plans could be shot if somebody needs help, have a friend who lives along the canal and they’re really worried about flooding this year with all the snow on the mountain.  According to the Good Old Boys Coffee Congregation at the gas station we had similar conditions 30 years ago where there was such a drought there was barely any water in the river and then it snowed like this winter and the runoff tore out everyone’s irrigation gates


----------



## Baymule (Apr 1, 2019)

According to the Good Old Boys Coffee Congregation at the gas station

I love it!


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 1, 2019)

I thought the same thing!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 2, 2019)

I’m glad you approve of the name
So of course the best laid plans never work out.  Saturday I got horses trimmed but then of course they’re haltered so they need to be rode.  After much combing we finally got enough hair shed off to create a third horse and saddle up.  My 4 year old has decided when she gets big she wants to be a cowboy like daddy.  She did great and was so proud of how well she controls her horse, I just tell her I hold the end of the mecate so the horse doesn’t step on it.
One day I’ll get that corral built, and the water hole dug, and and and and.  It never truly ends, but that’s half the fun.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 2, 2019)

You are giving your kids a great life. No matter where they go in life, they will carry memories of doing things with their Dad.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Apr 2, 2019)

Makes those teenage yrs a bit easier to get thru if ya aren't the "villan".....all the time....I agree with Bay, ya are making "memories", so make them "quality time"....ya gotta have something to talk about, joke, and kid each other for....helps with the listening to ya later.....


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 9, 2019)

So we finally got some trees planted.  My wife’s been wanting them for several years now because apparently sage brush isn’t good enough shade, though my dogs would disagree.  A friend had some saplings he wanted gone so I dug them up and planted them on three sides of the house, so far so good.  I also managed to fix a spot in the horse corral that had really started to sag, I made the mistake of turning the Hotwire off for a week or so and they just couldn’t help themselves.  I fortunately had supervision from my 2 year old who is very adamant I use the tools she hands me, irregardless if it’s necessary or not.  It took explaining that my little wire nippers and my fencing pliers weren’t the same thing.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 12, 2019)

The puppies have opened their eyes and are starting to get a little more active.  Also Bella turned 1 this week.  She’s gotten better and can differentiate between sheep and lambs.  Errant lambs will get a soft bop, ignorant ewes she deals with accordingly and then gets right back to work keeping everyone together.  Of course she still needs a lot of work but she has good natural ability.
In the front you can see Ma’s little ram lamb that was born after the triplets, he’s growing fast. My boy calls him Buckwheat, but I’ve told him that Buckwheat has already been promised to a Muslim family for their holidays and he’s better off naming ewes


----------



## Baymule (Apr 12, 2019)

I love 2 year old helpers!


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 15, 2019)

Best helpers ever!!!
Love the names too!  Glad to know that 4 year olds share the same taste in names!  Remember Rainbow Unicorn?!    The rest of us call her Blue Tag since that is what she is wearing in her ear.  LOL

The story about the cows cracked me up - were they actually the other neighbors' cows?  Funny if they belonged to someone else!  But at least you and your neighbor had them off your place.  Can't figure anyone not coming to the door in ranch territory.  Stock or people emergencies in lonely places need good neighbors.  LOL  Keep the shotgun near the door if you are worried, but usually good farm dogs are all you need for protection and doorbell. 

Those puppies should have good cow and sheep sense.  The litter wasn't planned, but as good as their parents are they should be in demand with your fellow ranchers.  Shame about the dead lamb, but great that the other lambs arrived safely.  Since the lambs looked as if they arrived within 12 -24 of each other, if you had known about which one was the mother of the dead lamb, you could have skinned the dead lamb, wrapped the smallest of the triplets in the skin, and grafted it onto the mom whose lamb died.  It is an old trick but works most of the time.  Actually just sliming the foster lamb with the birthing fluids works just as well.  Since the neighbor's boy would have been devastated to put down his little crippled bottle lamb, (which would not have been able to survive) I think giving him the ewe lamb to raise was a great idea.  It will be a friendly ewe and a keeper to breed.  Hopefully, the neighbor will just quietly put the other little lamb in the freezer as a BBQ lamb.  No need to waste meat. 

How old is your old ewe?  She may be able to lamb another year with extra rations.  Since her lamb will be going for a religious holiday, hopefully he will be pulled her off her soon and she can put some weight back on.  You may need to give her extra groceries since she is older, but if you like her and want to try for a ewe lamb next year, it might be worth it. 

As to the triplet ewes, (and yes, they are considered triplets even though you have removed one and given it away) you might consider keeping both of them if they can be tamed down without PITA's attitude.  Since the mom was able to give birth to all 3 without help, all 3 survived, they would be good replacement ewes.  When selecting replacement stock, sheep breeders take into account the number of lambs born each year to the mother.  Triplets and twins are desirable for replacement ewes, especially if the moms can raise them without help.  You probably know that with your background in AG, but just a reminder if you decide to want to keep them.

Glad that everything is going well for you and your family and that Alfalfa survived the dog attack.  I just hate neighborhood dog attacks on stock.  It is worse than coyotes since your dogs will usually try to stand off the wild predators.  For some reason, farm dogs sometimes will not attack neighborhood dogs.  Our first dog attack on 9ur rabbits, our dogs went crazy barking but did not try to attack the dogs.  I had the shotgun and would have shot them, but since our horses were standing right behind the marauding dogs I couldn't take a chance.  The next dog attack we had a 6 months cattle dog cross.  He slept in the house with our Weimaraners,  but when we let the dogs out he immediately went for the attacking dogs and chased them across the field.  Both attacks occurred inside the pole barn 35' from the house.  That was when we got our first livestock guardian dog.   

I hope the dogs that went after Alfalfa were impounded.  Stupidity on the part of dog owners is what gets them killed.  In some cases it is the dog owners that need to be shot.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 16, 2019)

Yes @Ridgetop they were the neighbor’s cows.  They got out again not too long ago and got into my hay, this time I tried by myself to remove them and they decided they wanted to go further down the road, I tried to be a good neighbor but they wouldn’t answer again so I said forget it and they eventually got their cows back a few hours later.  A little background on them is they are FLDS, a polygamist group from southern Utah/northern Arizona.  The women wear prairie dresses, they don’t talk to outsiders, and they think they do no wrong.  Next time their cows are in my hay I’ll just call animal control and send them my feed bill.
I plan to keep at least one of the triplets, possibly both depending on how things are looking in the fall.  My current plan would be to build more corrals as they’re a necessity and keep two flocks.  My three wool ewes will be with Shaun the hair ram with the intent of keeping any ewe lambs with desireable traits.  Namely hair, of the four lambs this year the ram lamb and one triplets are a little lighter colored and have baby wool while the two triplets I’ve kept have black hair.  The other pen would have Shaun babies with my wool ram Lambert, who’s related to two of my wool ewes with the intent of selling all offspring as terminal crosses with those funds feeding my sheep habit (hay, corrals, replacing Lambert with a handsome katahdin ram one day, etc.) I’m not 100% sure of Ma’s age, she came off a semi bound for auction with 100 other sheep.  I chose her and bellwether as they were in better shape than most on the truck but when I looked at her teeth she’s definitely up there in age.  Bellwether was pretty young.  
My dogs are in their run at night, they work pretty good as an alarm but I don’t let them wander.  When we first moved here 4 years ago there were no other dogs and Kya would stay home and never got locked up.  But then the family behind me (the one where the Alfalfa attackers came from) got two dogs and another neighbor got two dogs and they started packing up.  They killed a goat and I didn’t want any blame in that (we were out of town at the time and I always bring my dogs) so Kya got a dog run.  Better safe than sorry.  That pack later killed several sheep and several of those dogs were put down.  I like my neighbors behind me and told them I don’t want hard feelings but I would shoot the dogs next time.  So far so good


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 16, 2019)

That is too bad about the neighbors.  In ranch and livestock you need to stick together.  Maybe they will learn, maybe not.  I believe in being religious, but I really don't think faiths that teach that they are better than others are really Godly.  Anyway, if their cattle escape too many times or cause an accident, they will learn the hard way to work together.  I think you should just call the sheriff, he will impound the cows as estrays, and you will have legal proof for small claims court if you have to go that way.  Shooting marauding dogs or having the sheriff pick them up and talk to the owners is probably best.  Sadly, the dogs are just having fun (even though they need to be destroyed), the owners are to blame.  Often the owners turn around and claim that the dogs are not theirs - happened to a friend years ago who lost half a trailer load of show sheep coming from the Midwest for a sale and overnighting at her ranch.  Even though the dogs were still covered in blood and laying on the porch of the owner's house, the sheriff could only impound the dogs since the owner swore they were not his.  they were euthanized, along with about 15 sheep torn up so badly they couldn't be saved.  Big $$$ loss there.

A kennel run is a good idea.  Our acreage is fenced, but we keep at least one kennel run available all the time.  It is useful for Bubba when strangers come over, and for all the dogs when we try to load or move sheep.  The LGDs don't always think the sheep should go where we want them if it is a new area!  LOL  Also when our new puppy bitch comes into season next month (or after) she will need to be kenneled since Bubba is still intact.  After her 3rd season I can have her spayed.  Bubba needs to get his OFA and be collected (breeder's contract)  then he can be neutered.

If you decide to get a new ram, check out the on line Western States Dorper Sale.  It is coming up May 10 through 12.  The on line sale address is Susan Taylor Show Sales.  The animals' pictures and videos are posted a week or so in advance.  We bought a terrific ram from Paul Lewis last year at the Western States sale for only $400.00 (see pix) that produced beautiful lambs.  Paul Lewis is in eastern Oregon, but there are several of consignors from Utah.  They don't take the animals to the sale, just send the pix and videos, and you make arrangements to pick up the sheep from the consignor.  Luckily for us, Paul Lewis sends his sale sheep to Wes Patton in northern California for pickup.   Only a 2 day trip for us that way.  Lots of good rams go for the minimum bid while the ewes tend to go a low higher.  I don't show sheep anymore but if you can get to a meat sheep show (the youth show at the Fair is a good place and a fun outing for your family) and listen to the judge's comments it will help you when buying a meat production ram.  You know enough about hogs and meat production to know where the most meat is on a carcass so buying a ram to produce meat should be just up your alley.  I like the Dorpers since they don't need shearing.  They shed their wool out in spring and summer.   Dorpers are similar to Katahdins in being year round breeders, are a shorter sheep (after all there is little eat below the knee) and are easy keepers on pasture.  They have also surprised us by being very docile and easy to handle, even the rams are well behaved, while 2 of the 3 ewes come up to be petted on the field.  And these are not pet sheep!  Here are a few current pix of our Lewis ram.  He was on straight forage for 2 months before this was taken, no other feed except a small amount of grain at night to bring the rams into the barn.
   "Lewis" has tremendous length and muscling with the meat going down the leg into the twist.  His loin is very, very wide.  He throws this into his lambs, including into his cross bred lambs.   Their rate of gain was impressive - I thought my Dorsets gained well with a creep, but these Dorpers/Dorper crosses really do well with no creep.  Before investing in a replacement ram, check into these Dorpers.  They seem to carry more meat than the hair sheep breeds.
 The raggedy looking ewes are Dorpers starting their shed.  They won't shed as early for you since it is colder where you are.  The ones with colored collars are my purebred ewes.  The ones without collars are their lambs.  The lambs are only 4-4 1/2 months old.  They already are over 100 lbs. just on forage and a little rolled barleycorn to bring them into the barn at night.

We don't compete anymore, but I do sell freezer lambs to several customers.  My butcher sells any extra lambs I have left.  I need a good carcass even though I don't charge what my lambs should go for.  I always bought the best meat production rams I could get (and afford).  My Lewis ram has really improved my carcasses.

Greybeard turned me on to this breed and after spending $40 a head for the shearer (I have the equipment, but don't want to shear anymore since I am "in the prime of life".    I sold most of my Dorsets last summer and will be replacing the last 2 next month in the on line sale (hopefully).  Look into this breed - they are great, easy tempered and if your children halter break them as lambs, they will probably get as tame as Alfalfa!  LOL

I love hearing about your kids and your adventures.  Give my sympathies to your nice neighbor - we can all sympathize with falling into or over children's projects (or sometimes our own).


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 16, 2019)

Sounds like your son thinks like mine! He’s having trouble accepting that we don’t keep many extra males around. We make a big deal out of the ones that we do keep around. When we bring in a new male or one is born, he asks if it’s for the butcher or if we are going to keep it. He sure lights up when it’s a keeper!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 17, 2019)

Thanks @Ridgetop ill keep Dorpers in mind.  There is a guy about 90 miles away that sells dorpers pretty frequently and I actually looked into it but at the time he was asking way too much.  There was also a place further north that did dorper/katahdin crosses.  So where I’m at dorper may be the easier choice.  Definitely something to think on.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 17, 2019)

We used to tell the children that they had to name anything we would eat things like Ham Hocks, Rib Bone, BBQ, etc.  Only breeding stock got "fun" names.  Our DD1 named an entire of litter meat rabbits Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. for the days we would be eating them.  They also used to ask "WHO" we were eating.  Sometimes I wonder if we went too far in teaching them where food comes from.


----------



## Bruce (Apr 19, 2019)

Wehner Homestead said:


> Sounds like your son thinks like mine! He’s having trouble accepting that we don’t keep many extra males around.


Maybe he doesn't like the idea of males being so 'expendable' , kinda hits close to home.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 19, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Maybe he doesn't like the idea of males being so 'expendable' , kinda hits close to home.



That’s definitely crossed my mind. We try to be careful in our explanations.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 19, 2019)

Our grand daughters love and cuddle the babies. They are told that the (insert animal here) is for meat and will be slaughtered. Until that time, we will feed, water, love and care for them to the best that we can to insure that they have the best life possible. The animal has one bad day.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 19, 2019)

We had 3 boys and a girl who raised dairy goats.  They would wait breathlessly to see if the kid was a buck or doe since the does add to the herd but bucks were sold young and cheap for meat.  They resented the buck kids who cost money to feed and often barely paid for it in the sale price!  With the sheep it was the opposite since the ram lambs would be wethered and bring money as market lambs in the auction.  They learn the value of a dollar when their only pocket money comes from their livestock auction sales and show premiums.

On the other hand, we did have a few worried moments about teaching them that what you hunt and kill (even with an air rifle) has to be eaten by someone or something unless it was a predator.  I took my kids to say good bye to an old horse belonging to a friend  who had to go down due to crippling arthritis.  As I gently explained to them what would happen so they could give him good bye hugs, the 5 year old asked "Will you have to eat him now?".  As the teenage owner burst into years I realized we still had more work to do on the issue.   
Later I told DH that we better explain better or I had fears of what might happen if either of us should die!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 19, 2019)

So I apparently can’t tell which animals are mine.  I was at a friends yesterday and looking at how the triplet was doing.  She’s happy and fat and docile, perks of being bottle fed.  On the other side of the fence comes a fresh shorn sheep interested in what we’re doing and I commented that he’d gotten his sheep shorn and I was getting ready to do mine.  His response was that he hoped it was alright that he got them done which confused the heck out of me.  He pointed at that sheep and said “That’s your ram!”  Ha haha poor Lambert looked so different I hadn’t recognized him.  I assured him it was fine, one less thing for me to do.  Lambert will be coming home soon, he’s been there for months but he’s getting fed and I don’t need him right now so neither of us is in a hurry.  Plus now I’ve only gotta do 4 sheep, not 5.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 19, 2019)

Reminds me of a story...one of my maternal great-grandfathers was an avid coon hunter. He had an awesome dog. I don’t recall the specific name but it was something like Beau so I’ll use that for the ease of telling the story. Well Grandpa was hunting Beau one night and lost him. They searched and searched without luck. Beau would often beat Grandpa home but he was really concerned when he didn’t return after several days. He was lamenting the loss to a friend when the friend, a fellow coon hunter, mentioned that a hound had shown up at his house but was painted green. He thought Grandpa should try hunting him and if he liked him, he could keep him to replace the one he’d lost. Grandpa finally relented. He hunted with the dog and when the friend asked how it had gone, Grandpa told him that no dog would compare to Beau. Grandpa enjoyed hunting and the green dog did well enough that Grandpa decided to let him stay. Grandpa continued to lament the loss of Beau and talk about how the green dog just didn’t quite measure up. Time passed and the green paint wore off. My grandpa’s friend had painted Beau green to play a trick on Grandpa. That happened when my grandmother was in her early teens. She’s in her late 70s now. That story was told often and even shared at Grandpa’s funeral. Despite the prank, Grandpa was overjoyed to have Beau “back” and received quite a bit of ribbing over the green dog not hunting as well as Beau despite it truly being Beau!


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 19, 2019)

@Southern by choice 
@CntryBoy777 @Baymule @B&B Happy goats @Bruce 

Thought y’all would get a laugh out of the stories and maybe have a case of mistaken identity to share


----------



## Southern by choice (Apr 19, 2019)

these are great! too funny


----------



## Baymule (Apr 19, 2019)

Great stories!


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Apr 19, 2019)

Have a lot of animal "experiences".....but, never had a case of mistaken identity....as long as I could tell the difference between same animals of the same breed.....my Mom use to give "joke presents" at christmas, and 1yr she gave my Dad's sister a pair of hogs teeth from the hog slaughter in Nov that yr.....my aunt kept running around singing the song "all I want for christmas is my 2 front teeth".....it was talked about the rest of their lives.....


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 22, 2019)

So in keeping with mistaken animal identity I may have found a closer option for a dorper ram.  My friend who has Lambert the ram picked up some more bottle lambs Friday night and as he was driving home he got a call from the bottle lamb supplier saying he had swapped two lambs and given him the wrong one.  He had a little dorper mixed with the wool lambs!  He turned around and traded it back but now I’ve got contact information to talk about getting a ram from him sometime in the future.  Funny how that worked out.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 22, 2019)

I thought I wanted Dorpers to start with. I changed my mind to Katahdins. The rams are a lot calmer is my #1 reason. Then is the range of colors and not having to dock tails. It may sound silly, but I don't like docked tails. I can see the reasons for a wooled sheep, but it is stupid to dock the tails of a hair sheep. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. LOL

I am happy for you that you now have a contact for a Dorper ram. Dorpers have a lot of meat on them and a good ram will give you better lambs.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 22, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> So I apparently can’t tell which animals are mine.


I had a Weimaraner that was showing with the breeder.  She had me meet her after the show and transferred my dog from her car to the crate in the back of my SUV.  When I got home I opened the crate and called the dog to come inside the house with me but instead he ran up to the neighbors.  I went up and got him, brought him in the house and he was really acting funny.  He didn't look quite right and I realized he was not my dog!  No wonder he wouldn't come when we called him!  It was not his name!  I called the breeder and asked if she was sure she gave me the right dog.  There was a moment of silence while she looked back and checked the crate then I heard "OMG!"  She had a helper that day that put the dogs in the wrong crates to bring them home.  They were littermates, but you could tell the difference when you looked closely.  My dog was thrilled to get home, and I thought her dog was going to jump through the car window to get to her!  LOL
I was also stewarding at a large rabbit show once when rabbits got mixed up.  Hard to tell 2 good all white rabbits of the same, size, age, and breed from one another,  That is why they have ear tattoos.  And sheep have tags.  LOL



Baymule said:


> I thought I wanted Dorpers to start with. I changed my mind to Katahdins. The rams are a lot calmer is my #1 reason. Then is the range of colors and not having to dock tails. It may sound silly, but I don't like docked tails. I can see the reasons for a wooled sheep, but it is stupid to dock the tails of a hair sheep.


I think calmness depends on the bloodline, or how the sheep may have been raised.  But I have *white* Dorpers, not black headed Dorpers.  The breeder that I got the ewes from told me that the black headed Dorpers were not nice like the white variety.  She said the black headed Dorpers were flighty and mean, but white Dorpers had sweet personalities.  It  is certainly true of ours.  Even our rams are calm.  We don't treat them as pets so they don't come up like bottle babies, but 2 of the ewes do come up to be petted on the field and in the pens.  We are just used to docking tails since we always have.  California is hot and if their manure gets sticky you can get fly strike.  Also, I like to have a clear look at If we were selling commercially by the lb. I probably wouldn't dock.  It certainly would be one less sheep chore to do.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 22, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> Also, I like to have a clear look at If we were selling commercially by the lb. I probably wouldn't dock.


I meant to say I like to have  clear look at the vulva and udder when breeding and lambing season come around.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 22, 2019)




----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 23, 2019)

I’m still very much interested in Katahdins but my current problem is there are not any available close by.  But talking to this gentleman some people are starting to swap to dorper because they don’t want to shear but they still want a meatier lamb.  My goal has always been have something I can train my dogs with and keep them happy while they pay for their own feed and upkeep.  Shaun was a small miracle out of left field, I’m not sure where he came from and the gentleman I got him from died from a tractor accident shortly after.  My goal today is to have two herds, Shaun with Heart, Dotty, and Bellwether to create replacement breeding ewes.  Those replacement ewes (like Twilight Sparkle and Pinkie Pie) would be terminally crossed with Lambert with all lambs going to market to pay for feed, upkeep, replacement breeding stock like a new ram.  Maybe the first will be a dorper, and he’ll be my terminal male as I try to track a replacement Katahdin, who knows?
On a sad note my boy learned a hard lesson yesterday.  My mom brought some new chickens when they came to visit for Easter, they’re trying to get things lined out to move to Oklahoma so they’re getting rid of their current flock.  Every night his job is to count the chickens and lock them up for the night.  He didn’t count and one of those chickens was hiding out under the coop or in the sagebrush or somewhere.  A raccoon got ahold of her in the night and left what bits he didn’t want in the chicken yard.  I hope he’ll always remember to count now.  And now I’ve gotta trap a raccoon.  Last night was a failure, I sometimes really hate cats!


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 23, 2019)

Sad for him, but a valuable lesson in livestock keeping.  Always count your animals.  Missing a ewe - is she lambing somewhere?   Missing a horse - is the fence down?  The old west cowboys used to keep a little tally book when they counted their herds and they would be correct within a couple of head.  Missing stock means missing $$$.

Our youngest daughter did the same.  She was in charge of bringing the ewes in at night and was going on a date so didn't bother to count.  One stayed out to lamb and 2 days later one of the dogs brought a leg up to the patio.  Since we trusted her to take care of the sheep, and she didn't bother to count heads, we were down a ewe and her lamb.  Big trouble for her, and we did not trust her to be responsible for the sheep anymore.  She cried over it, but as we told her "Sorry and tears won't replace a big dollar item like the ewe and lamb". 

It is a hard lesson, even if it was just a chicken.  Next time he will count.  Farm children learn these lessons and they will stand them in good stead later in life.  Just like learning to work hard on the farm - it gives them a good work ethic and they learn not to half do a job.  He is just a child but he is learning.


----------



## greybeard (Apr 23, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> The old west cowboys used to keep a little tally book when they counted their herds and they would be correct within a couple of head. Missing stock means missing $$$.


 Open range, they got counted once/year here..at roundup. (this was in the 50s and early 60s)

Down in Chambers and East Galveston County in saw grass country, there are momma cows that have never seen a human until the cows are loaded to go to sale.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 28, 2019)

Does the Dorper contact you found have White Dorpers or regular black headed Dorpers?  there are 2 different Dorper breeds.  Both have all the same attributes, and are made up of the same genetics - Black Headed Persian sheep and Dorset sheep.  White Dorpers have nicer temperaments than the black headed Dorpers.  Black headed Dorpers are flightier and meaner than the White Dorpers.  With you small kids, hopefully, the Dorpers you have found are White Dorpers.  Probably are since no one mistakes a black headed Dorper for any other type of sheep.  White Dorpers look like a very thick, meaty, white sheep.  Similar to the dorset which is one of the sheep used to make up that breed.


----------



## greybeard (Apr 29, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> The old west cowboys used to keep a little tally book when they counted their herds and they would be correct within a couple of head. Missing stock means missing $$$.



one or two?


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 29, 2019)

One or two sounds ok, one or two hundred or one or two thousand if rustlers are in the area I suppose.  Nowadays rustlers still happen but they use big trucks.

In California (probably just like Texas) you need a transport slip to take cattle anywhere.  We needed them for bringing our our newborn veal prospects home, taking them to auction, for weigh in and check in at the fair.  The Brand Inspector would be at the scales to check your paperwork and heaven help you if you were on the road without it!

Our friends, the Marquez family, owned a dairy in Chino and had bought property in northern California to start another one.  One time one of the Marquez boys was driving a load of heifers north to the new dairy and was stopped.  The rig has "Marquez Dairy" on the truck and trailer, and he had his ID but had forgotten the transport papers.  The Highway Patrol kept him there until his brother could drive up with the paperwork.  Luckily the officer called the number of the dairy and was told that the heifers belonged to them and he was ok to drive them up.  But the officer was not going to let him go any further without the paperwork.  They were 15 miles from the new dairy!  His brother was not happy to make a 6 hour round trip.  After hearing that story I always kept a pad of transport forms in my truck glove box since some dairy owners did not want to bother going back to their office to fill out the slips for newborn bull calves.

What I find strange is that you don't need a transport slip to transport a whole trailer load of goats or sheep!  They are actually easier to steal sometimes too since they are smaller.  Pet goats particularly go missing from yards along roadways frequently.  I think you should need a transport slip for them too.  Most flocks have individual tag numbers, and dairy goats have tattoos.  It is not like you can't identify them.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 29, 2019)

Are you anywhere close to Ogden?  There is a good breeder there with White Dorpers.


----------



## Bruce (Apr 29, 2019)

Are there any dairies left in Chino? I lived there until I was 2 1/2. There was a dairy across the road from my Grandmother and Grandfather's farm. He had 2 small farms, my Dad was running one. I think they grew mostly sugar beets. My grandfather leased them out when he retired from farming in the late 60's, still had them when I was in college at Cal Poly Pomona in the mid 70's. Now they are house upon house of overcrowded development


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 29, 2019)

There are a few left.  The dairies were given protected status and the area was considered the "Dairy Preserve"  However, like everything in California, they are being forced out.  The Marquez family was lucky because their boys wanted to take over the family dairy.  They went through 4-H (where I met their mom, Bernardine), FFA, and finally AG college.  Other family dairies have slowly sold out with no kids to take over.  Also, the requirements on getting rid of the manure have gotten tighter, restrictions have tightened.  I used to go down there 2 x monthly for my dairy stuff, that dairy supply store where they used to repair milking machines and sell equipment is no longer there.  On the other hand, with Amazon and mail order maybe it wasn't necessary.  The Marquez boys bought property up north near Visalia (another big dairy area in the San Joaquin Valley).  Bernardine told me they wanted to expand and eventually move their dairy up north.  Sadly, they didn't buy enough property to allow for the new manure pits that the government decided they needed, and were looking for more acreage last I heard.

The "Golden State" has wonderful weather which we will miss.  however, the liberal government wants to take it all for themselves!  California's main export and wealth used to be agriculture, but since Sacramento shut down water to the farmers in the San Joaquin, farms are drying up, vineyards and orchards dying, and even cattle are scarce on the hills.  No water = no food!  Liberal lawmakers don't care, they are on expense accounts and drink bottled water.  Preserve your farms and ranching areas.  Between PETA, liberals (no hamburgers) etc., we are in for hard times!

I am a 3rd generation San Fernando Valley woman, my grandkids are 5th generation, but we have to leave . . . .


----------



## greybeard (Apr 29, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> In California (probably just like Texas) you need a transport slip to take cattle anywhere.


No. I can haul cattle anywhere in Texas I want to without any govt paperwork or permits. The only exception would be commercial and that goes by weight, if it was a pot load. I take them to the sale barn, they just ask for your information, a verbal thing and that's so they know where and who to mail the check to. As far as crossing state line, you are supposed to have a CVI (Certificate of Veterinarian Inspection), but if buying from (for instance) Oklahoma* and bringing in to Texas the sale barn you buy from will have that and they have a vet on hand every sale. Brand inspection, I really doubt there is one at every sale here, tho I always notice the  barn does include a fee on my receipts. Brands and/or ear tags are not required on cattle sold within the state at the salebarns or private treaty (yet).

I've never actually seen a brand inspector at any of the Texas salesbarns I've been to, offloading or otherwise.
Cattle theft or suspected cattle/livestock theft in Texas is handled by TSCRA..special rangers and they don't mess around.

* Everyone, once in their life, should visit a sale at OKC stockyards. It's just hard to describe...


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 29, 2019)

That is interesting.  I would have thought that Texas or any of the other big range cattle states would require paperwork on transport.  Cattle being high $$ in Texas and other range states.  Rustling still goes on.

Transporting sheep, goats, horses, cattle, across state lines does require certain health checks and bloodwork pertaining to each species which are set by the individual states.  That is usually the responsibility of the seller/shipper.  The seller had to get bloodwork done on the Oregon ram I bought at the on line sale last year.  It accompanied the sale paperwork when I picked him up.   None needed for California to California sales, except what the buyer requests.  If it is something special the buyer would pay for it. 

Occasionally certain counties will ban transport of certain animals during times of disease outbreaks.  For instance, a 4-H leader friend said there might not be any poultry at some of the fairs this year due to an outbreak.  One year in L.A. county only terminal hogs were allowed to be brought in for the junior ivestock show since there was an outbreak in several of the outlying counties.  We can _*export *_dairy goats to Mexico, but not *import *any goats due to the prevalence of bruccellosis in Mexico. 

It is always a good idea to check on the state (and possibly county) importation regs before bringing in any livestock.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Apr 29, 2019)

Being a retired truck driver, I can tell ya that I haven't seen a scale house, inspection station, or port of entry that couldn't be avoided by traveling "backroads"....it is called "dodging the coops".....some states close their entry scales at sundown and many just ride by and wave.....if someone is stealing livestock they certainly won't be on the major highways and they don't care about breaking a few more laws.....


----------



## greybeard (Apr 29, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> That is interesting. I would have thought that Texas or any of the other big range cattle states would require paperwork on transport. Cattle being high $$ in Texas and other range states. Rustling still goes on.


We aren't as much enamored with or impressed by gooberment regs here as some states.


----------



## Bruce (Apr 29, 2019)

And cattle rustling used to be good business. Maybe still is


----------



## Baymule (Apr 29, 2019)

Paperwork just to take your livestock from one place to another sounds like a giant PITA. I guess I just got the independent Texan mindset, that would royally piss me off.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 30, 2019)

Only need transport slips for cattle here in California.  Sheep, hogs, goats, poultry, and equines can move throughout the state with no accompanying paperwork, unless there is some type of epidemic.  In the case of epidemic, either none of that species is allowed to enter other counties, you have to have vet health certificates, or there is a self imposed quarantine to avoid contracting the disease and bringing it home.

Some years ago, there was an outbreak of one of the horse diseases suddenly popping up in several states.  I forget which one but it is one of the fatal ones with no vaccine.  It was traced to a show in Las Vegas.  The contestants had returned home bringing the disease with them.  Outbreaks started appearing around several states and quite a few valuable horses died.  People were warned not to take their horses to shows.  Events were cancelled.  Many of us stopped trail riding because we might come into contact with infected horses.  Six months later attendance was half of normal at Bishop Mule Days.  Many Mule days contestants come from as far as Kentucky, and didn't want to take a chance on getting the disease and bringing it back to their barns.

The only reason for a paperwork trail on livestock, other than sales receipts, is to track disease.  Most of us quarantine new arrivals for a couple of weeks anyway, but some just turn the new animals in with the flock.  Without a health certificate, you could be bringing in anything.  That does not mean that the flock the new animal comes from is diseased, but your animals might not be resistant to something that doesn't bother the newcomer.  Self imposed quarantine of new livestock is a good safety measure, while the health tests required to transport animals across state lines help to protect the industry.

There is a reason USDA regulations do not allow a downed animal at a kill facility to be put into the food chain.  Unless it is a broken limb, you don't know what disease the downed animal could have.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 14, 2019)

I’ve been busy busy busy but I’m finally back!  Looks like I missed a good conversation on animal movement, and @Ridgetop i remember when EHV appeared after that show.  I had a few friends lose horses to it because of one horse that had been at the show.  I only had my horse Bro at the time, and he’d had direct contact with two of those horses and a third got sick with it in the stall across from him.  He never got sick though, the state vet figured he must have some sort of immunity to the virus.  Then it showed up a year later and killed a couple more horses, and I finally found a new place for my horse.  I was keeping him at the fair grounds close to school because I decided I was taking my horse to college with me, but the fairgrounds were a joke.  They took “precautions” during EHV and did nothing to enforce it.  People would walk through there to see the pretty horses and pet them all, taking hay from one and giving it to the other, etc.  Finally this old cowboy and I took it upon ourselves to put up caution tape and warn people to keep out, sometimes not all that politely, to people who persisted.  The staff got complaints and got mad so we talked to the guys who’d lost horses and they gave their vet bills and replacement horse costs to the county.  Suddenly caution tape was a great idea and no one complained when we got irritated with the illiterate.  The only employee who’d gripe was the secretary, but she didn’t like me much seeing as she’d been wanting me to go out with her for 3 years and I kept telling her no. 
But I’m back and I’m still alive, we’ve just had a rough couple weeks around here and i haven’t had a free moment.


----------



## Bruce (May 14, 2019)

Glad to know you are still on the dusty trail.


----------



## Ridgetop (May 14, 2019)

Glad things have gotten better for you and looking forward to hearing about your experiences.  Hope they weren't too bad.


----------



## Baymule (May 14, 2019)

I always enjoy your posts, been missing you.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 17, 2019)

I love how some things never change.  Since they were babies the twins Lambert and Dotty have butt heads...literally.  Most summer days I could look out at the sheep and see  those two playing in the sage brush, running around mom, and then colliding head to head.  I got Lambert back on Wednesday, my friend’s had him since January.  Dotty came up, sniffed him, and then they proceeded to butt heads just like before!  
Alfalfa has found a new favorite snack, goldfish crackers.  My 2 year old was following me around for chores while snacking on goldfish and of course if Alfalfa sees her eating something it’s gotta be good. He snuck up behind her and stuck his nose in the bag to snag a few.  His eyes rolled back in his head! I don’t know if that’s a goat trait or just an Alfalfa thing, when he gets a snack he loves his eyes roll back in ecstasy or something.  He then spent the rest of our time outside trying to sneak another goldfish while my daughter tried to protect her bag.  He’s too well behaved to knock her over, so he resorts to watching for the perfect moment to steal another bite.  Probably not the healthiest goat snack, but I’d say he earned em.  There are always worse things to pick up.  I had a friend whos family loved Coca Cola.  And it translated over to their animals they had a horse who loved it too.  But the best was one of their parrots.  If you opened a coke in front of her she’d say “YUMMMM!” And expected you to share with her.  And she’d remember you if you didn’t and exact her revenge.  She had free range of the house and chewed a hole in the bathroom wall.  She would lurk in that hole and heaven help the poor soul who answered the call of nature after they’d given her offense.  Fortunately you were in an appropriate place for when she scared the s*** out of you with a surprise assault.  True fear is being ambushed by a coke addicted bird with your pants around your ankles. They thought it was funny and never fixed the hole, though they themselves sometimes fell prey to her wrath.  And that’s why I drink Mountain Dew!


----------



## Baymule (May 17, 2019)

Oh gosh that is funny! Attack parrot in the bathroom!


----------



## Ridgetop (May 22, 2019)

Don't you love how little kids share their treats with their pets.  Some times willingly sometimes not!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 22, 2019)

So we went from being in the high 70s- low 80s back down to the fifties and endless rain.  We needed 26 inches of snow water equivalent to fill the nearby reservoir.  Today we’re at 33 inches.  Cooler temps and rain are putting more snow on the mountain, and once the heat comes we’ll have more water than we can handle. But then I see what’s going on in the Midwest and I’m sorry you guys have to deal with that and hope everyone is ok.  For now the rain is putting a damper on several projects I wanted to get done, but where they’re not critically essential at this moment I’m going to let it stop raining for a moment before I resume


----------



## Ridgetop (May 22, 2019)

Too bad you can't capture some of the snow melt this spring.  Can you do some sort of run off basin and storage for the summer?


----------



## CntryBoy777 (May 22, 2019)

Sure glad your pleas for moisture have been answered.... ....there can be a fine line between enough and too much.....


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 23, 2019)

Unfortunately I’m not in a position to collect any runoff apart from what may come off my roof, which is long since melted.  It’s gonna be an interesting year though.  The GOBCC (Good Old Boys Coffee Congregation) keeps bringing up 1983.  There was a serious drought in 1982 like we had last year and then they had 30 inches of snow water equivalent on the mountain.  Come Memorial Day weekend temps picked up and it all came off at once, washing out diversion dams and no one could get any water out of the ditch.  As of today we’re at 33.9 inches, with rain and cool temps for another week.  I imagine we’ll be well over 34 when it’s all said and done, and if it all comes pouring off like in ‘83 we could be in for an entertaining summer to say the least.  Nice part of all this is I’ve actually got some pasture to graze on this year!


----------



## Ridgetop (May 23, 2019)

The snow melt this year in the wet should be interesting to say the least.  I am certainly hoping that the drought has broken and that we will be getting several years of good rainfall and snow.  Yu might consider water recapture planning now for net year.  Also, of you have anywhere that would make a good pond from melt it would help for next year since you could rg up solar panels  to power irrigation sprinklers lines, etc.  You will have to make the pond water tight so it doesn't all soak into the ground.  Greybeard is the man to ask about ponds.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 5, 2019)

And I’m back!  This summer has been so busy with a lot going on and i just didn’t really have much time for anything.  Things have finally started to mellow out though.  Everyone is now healthy and happy, lambs grew and were sold and I sold Ma the ancient ewe.  She just couldn’t bounce back so I sold her for mutton.  I also sold my wool ram, and just have the hair ram Shaun.  So that leaves me with 3 ewes and a ram, and I’m currently in negotiations with a friends kids to buy one of their yearlong ewes.  We decided to let them do the research to come up with a fair price, teaches them about the market and of course I’ll teach them how to haggle on pricing. I’ll put pictures when she gets here.  I'm also down to 5 sussex chickens, the brahmas weren’t laying well and they terrified my wife with her chickenphobia.


----------



## Mike CHS (Sep 5, 2019)

You did cut way back.


----------



## Baymule (Sep 5, 2019)

Chickenphobia? She may be on to something there. If Chickens were 8 feet tall, we'd be on the menu.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 6, 2019)

Apparently when she was a lot longer they had a rooster named hank that would attack people.  She was showing one of my nieces the chickens 15 years ago and hank attacked, my niece still has a scar from the encounter.  And my chickens are a little over friendly.  They came from my mom and she raised meal worms (now I raise them) to treat her chickens.  So they will run up to you at top speed and she acts like it’s Jurassic Park.  We raise spoiled animals around here, meal worms for chickens, Alfalfa loves his store bought white bread (turns his nose up at home made), Bella gets left overs on occasion but Kya is on a diet, and the horses get the occasional apple.  I haven’t really found a love treat for the sheep.  All things in moderation, though the chickens look offended that I don’t give meal worms as often as my mom did.


----------



## Baymule (Sep 6, 2019)

@Mike CHS gave his ram Ringo animal crackers. We went to Tennessee to get Ringo and brought him home. Now most of my ewes also love animal crackers. They smell them in my pocket and mob me for them. Even after the animal crackers are gone, they will sniff my pocket and beg for more. I always make sure that Ringo gets his first. LOL


----------



## Mike CHS (Sep 6, 2019)

I quit putting them in my pocket after one of the ewes bit me at the pocket area.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Sep 6, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> I quit putting them in my pocket after one of the ewes bit me at the pocket area.


Good idea, lol!


----------



## Baymule (Sep 6, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> I quit putting them in my pocket after one of the ewes bit me at the pocket area.


HAHAHA!!!


----------



## Mini Horses (Sep 6, 2019)

We're all chuckling over that "close encounter" Mike.


----------



## Mike CHS (Sep 6, 2019)

Mini Horses said:


> We're all chuckling over that "close encounter" Mike.



I figured it would give some laughs which is why I called it the "pocket area"


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 6, 2019)

My wife had that problem once.  When we were dating we were standing in the field and jack snuck up behind her to inspect the fancy buttons on her back pockets.  With some teeth!  Haha I generally don’t carry anything worth inspecting on me for that very reason


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 10, 2019)

So we may be adding more ewes then initially planned.  My friends kids want to keep some of their ewes this year but they’re going to have no where to put them.  They escape from one pasture and the one they’re in is needed for other purposes. Where most of my sheep came from their little herd and have grazed some pastures together over the summer, I offered to let them stay at my place through the winter if they’ll pay to feed them.  We’re discussing “leasing” options as well as potential “breed fees” if they plan to use my ram.  Their dad wants this to be a learning opportunity for running a livestock business.  When he originally started buying them bottle lambs, he would make them put all the work into feeding them and would mark down how much he spent in initial purchase, what milk replacer cost, and the hay.  When the lambs were sold they paid him what was due with a little interest and pocketed the rest.  If you can’t tell, he’s an ag lender for the USDA.
They decided this year they wanted to keep some more ewes and see if they can do better with breeding and letting the ewes raise the lambs. Guess they’re tired of bottle feeding.


----------



## Mike CHS (Sep 10, 2019)

We don't mind bottle lambs but given the choice the ewes can take of them.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 16, 2019)

Ah Utah, where it can go from 100 degrees to 70 degrees and back to 100 all in the space of one week!  It got so cold it froze the corn and now it’s back up to hot, but folks will still be harvesting early. We usually at least make it to October.  Spent the weekend splitting firewood, I got a huge dump trailer load from my neighbor.  He builds log cabins and generally they leave the cut offs and crooked lengths for the owner to burn, but this one had all gas heating so they wanted it all hauled off.  Of course I was excited as that’s less trips to the mountains for me and it’s pretty good stuff.  
I’ve been trying to get more time in with the sheep, but I think bellwether will always be a wild child. I cannot come anywhere near that ewe without Bella, and that’s just because Bellwether decides I’m the lesser of two evils and I won’t bite her on the nose.  On the other side of that scale is Heart who will practically put herself in my pocket and can’t be convinced otherwise.  
My horse bro got to show off a little over the weekend.  My son and his friends were riding him around and said they wanted to try something besides loping him around, so I suggested setting up some posts and jumping him.  They didn’t think he could jump that high!  Back in college I would lend him to the equestrian team to work hunter jumper courses and he’s still got it.  I don’t think I’ll ever get rid of that horse, he’s great with kids and will do just about anything you ask him to do, and he’s really kid safe in that he won’t takeoff at a full gallop without spurs!  I’ve had that horse for 9 years, trained him from the ground up and he’s come a long way.  Jack, he’ll stay mine because we keep each other honest.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Sep 16, 2019)

It's so awesome to have a horse you can really trust.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 16, 2019)

So today as I fed I finally took a moment to realize that I have a lot of wasted hay with the sheep.  It really clicked as I noticed the ram in his nice new pen had quite the collection of hay trampled on the ground.  He doesn’t even sleep in it, he prefers his little dirt hole he’s made.  So he now has a feed tub that had gone MIA a while back.  Apparently my boy took it to a far corner to keep toads in.  I’ll start work on a manger for the ewes using whatever I can find around here as soon as possible.  I spend every day trying to minimize feed wastage in pigs, I can’t imagine why I never thought about it for my sheep and they’ve been here over a year!


----------



## Baymule (Sep 16, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> So he now has a feed tub that had gone MIA a while back.  Apparently my boy took it to a far corner to keep toads in.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 19, 2019)

If I could find half the stuff my kids have run off with, my tool bench wouldn’t look so bare.  My 4 year old had my rubber mallet stashed under her bed?  My boy has broke or lost several step in posts for the hot wire.  The two year old is playing barbies with a set of needle nose pliers.  I’ve finally put a lock on the garage and children are banned.  
So far my manger hasn’t happened yet, I’ve had a few projects take precedence over that. Like a new roof, fixing the back deck, firewood.  There went the savings account. Bella has an interesting relationship with Dotty the ewe and I don’t know if I like it.  When we do our little training sessions Bella will be merciless to any sheep that would try to get out of line.  You stay with the human, those are the rules... unless you’re dotty.  If Dotty leaves with someone else, her companion will get the full attention leaving Dotty to run off.  But she’ll sniff Dotty, she’ll lick Dotty, she babies her.  I don’t know if it’s because they grew up together or what.  Bella came here as a puppy about the same time I brought Dotty home as a two day old lamb, and I remember being so impressed with how Bella treated the  lambs, she was a terror on the older sheep (remember the udder dragging incident) but the lambs were exempt.  Hopefully this is something she will grow out of with age and training, she’s only a year old.  I’m all for playing nice, but you can’t make exemptions when working Bella!  
Course she’s a little moody right now, she just entered her first heat and she doesn’t seem to be loving it.  Now I get to chase Jessie away every day as he starts his dog run vigil.


----------



## Baymule (Sep 19, 2019)

Your children carting off your tools made me smile. Your daughter playing Barbie with needlenose pliers made me laugh. I like your kids. Buy them each their own set of tools in a case.


----------



## Bruce (Sep 20, 2019)

I'm trying to figure out just how needle nose pliers come into play with Barbie.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Sep 20, 2019)

Bruce said:


> I'm trying to figure out just how needle nose pliers come into play with Barbie.


It takes a child's imagination Bruce.....


----------



## Bruce (Sep 20, 2019)

You calling me OLD???? You need to learn to respect your elders


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 23, 2019)

In her defense, it was farmer Barbie.  So we’ve discovered that Bella is smarter than I give her credit for.  Bring in heat she’s been confined to her run with the hot wire around the top so that she can’t escape.  Kya woke me up barking and Bella had disappeared.  I could hear snapping over by the horses, they had grounded the wire on the fence and she somehow knew that meant she could escape.  So I’ll be spending the afternoon fixing something to prevent escapes even when the wire isn’t working


----------



## Bruce (Sep 23, 2019)

Well then she's got a good head on her shoulders! Farmer Barbie is a lot better than Beach Barbie.


----------



## Baymule (Sep 23, 2019)

When my daughter was 7 years old, we came up with a Barbie game. We made up Barbies that Mattel never thought of. It made a great game to play in the car. Suicide Barbie. Plumber's Butt Barbie. Bad Teeth Barbie. And so on..... The worse the names, the more we laughed.


----------



## Mini Horses (Oct 11, 2019)

Tool "borrowing" doesn't get better with age!   How about walking out to use your tractor and it's G O N E      Yeah, REAL UGLY discussion over that!!    Now I will have to start removing the key.  I like it where I don't have to walk back for it at the house!     Oh, yeah...he's almost 53!    buy your own if you can ask to use.


----------



## Bruce (Oct 11, 2019)

Um Mini, is there more to this story?


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Oct 15, 2019)

I don't blame ya @Mini Horses ....but I certainly understand the convienence of having it handy....so remove it, but hide it so it will be "handy" for those that are "in the know".....


----------



## Mini Horses (Oct 15, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Um Mini, is there more to this story?



He's on "suspension" from use.  I have the key.      Don't mind lending it BUT,  wanted to use it and just not there.  Set me back 2 days.  Wasn't happy & let him know. Inconsiderate kid.

He wasn't raised that way.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Oct 16, 2019)

Mini Horses said:


> He wasn't raised that way.




There seems to be no age limit on brain farts!   Kids....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Oct 26, 2019)

Mr. @High Desert Cowboy,

Just now caught up!

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 5, 2019)

So back at the end of September I had a lead on some dorper ewes for a good price, when I was suddenly stricken with intense, constant pain.  Some tests and scan later, it was decided I needed surgery and have been down for a month.  I’m on the mend toward 100%, but I haven’t been on as I haven’t really done anything with our little spread besides sit up in bed a remind my wife everyday that the horses get three way and alfalfa, the sheep get three way, and Alfalfa will only eat alfalfa and by golly somebody better be checking for eggs!  The day I came home from the hospital it was to the news that some dang dog had wandered onto the property and my son had failed t closed the chicken coop up.  Two chickens were left, and one wasn’t likely.  Again and again I asked about the other three, being told that they were no where to be found.  The next day, one appeared in the yard.  The following day, the other two were found hunkered in the window well. 
My first act upon being up and about again was to turn Shaun in with the ewes.  I wasn’t going to have lambs in February again,March can be miserable, April can go either way but I can’t figure on waiting too much longer.  As to more ewes, we’ll see what’s left when the hospital sends the bill


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Nov 5, 2019)

You have had a rough go!  Sure hope that things have turned around for you!


----------



## Baymule (Nov 5, 2019)

Wow, I sure hope you are ok now! I know it has driven you out of your mind, having to stay in bed, do nothing, and recuperate. How crazy did you drive your wife? 

Horsepistol bills


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Nov 6, 2019)

Mr. @High Desert Cowboy,

Boy, you have had a rough time lately!  I hope your recovery continues to go well.

If I read your story correctly, it seems that all of your chickens have been accounted for.  If so, that is a good thing!  Your wife needs a medal for her having picked up the pieces while you were bedridden.  Maybe you can treat her to her favorite restaurant, or maybe buy her some nice pajamas, or whatever she wants.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 6, 2019)

We have had a rough time lately.  My wife commented that for the last several years it seems like every time things start to get good and we get ahead a little something happens. But trials give us a chance to grow, and apparently the good Lord figures I’ve got lots more growing to do.
My wife was a trooper, but we also got a lot of help after the first week, my mom flew back from Oklahoma to help out with the kids and house on the nights my wife works.  Between the two of them everything was covered.  But I did drive my wife a little crazy, especially when I’d try to get up because I wanted whatever needed doing done right!  It made it worse that I couldn’t see anything from my window.  I think a remodel is required, so I can build a master suite that looks at my animals


----------



## Bruce (Nov 6, 2019)

wow! I'm glad you caught whatever it was before it got even worse. Best wishes for continued healing.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 7, 2019)

I must confess, I loathe daylight savings time in the fall.  I go from having time to do everything to having time to do nothing, and all I get in return is a little daylight at 7:00AM.  Watching the ewes interacting with Shaun has been entertaining, though I think Dottie has some serious issue.  I’ve never seen a ewe head butt so often with rams.  She’s done it since she was a lamb, and I thought it was just a twin thing her and lambert did but now she headbutts Shaun and I don’t get it.  And poor Bellwether, she keeps dropping to her belly when he tries to provide his services.  She has no flight instinct, she just goes limp under pressure.  When the triplets were born, I had to move her from the pasture to the garage because we had lots of snow and then cold forecasted.  I figured move the babies and she should follow alright, that’s what the others do.  Nope, she wants nothing to do with me.  And if I tried to grab her and lead her, she just plops on the ground and won’t move.  I had to grab a sled and drag her sorry backside all the way to the garage to her lambing jug.  Spoiled her, treated her good, and when I went to get her out of the garage She pulled the same stunt.  Great when it’s shearing time, not so much at others


----------



## Bruce (Nov 8, 2019)

Sounds like Bellwether is top of the cull list at sale time. No one needs a clueless ewe.

Re DST, they could just drop it and move everyone a time zone earlier. Permanent DST.


----------



## Ridgetop (Nov 11, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> It made it worse that I couldn’t see anything from my window. I think a remodel is required, so I can build a master suite that looks at my animals



My master bedroom looks out at the night fold pen.  With pregnant ewes about to lamb, I keep a pair of binoculars on the bathroom window sill so I can take a close look at the animals in the pen without actually having to go down the hall, out the door, around the house, into the field and check the pen!  LOL  Caught the 3 that lambed in the pen that way.  Moved one just in time, and the other 2 immediately after they lambed into the barn jugs.    

Hope you are on the mend from your surgery and that it was not something requiring further work, other than removal of stitches and antibiotics!  Get well soon!  You have 5 months before lambing season starts for you.  

There are several excellent White Dorper breeders in Axtell, UT.  If you want info on them let me know.  They do both registered and commercial Dorper breeding and sales.  They actually ship their meat lambs to slaughter in Texas.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 12, 2019)

Bellwether was on the chopping block for this year, but I did say “Unless that no good beast has twins she is gone!”  And she had triplets so I gotta side by that and she stays one year more.  Besides I can’t really afford to get rid of her at the moment.  
@Ridgetop thank you I’ll keep that in mind.  Axtell isnt too far, but I gotta see what my surgery costs me in the end.  I had money set aside to buy a ewe, but money set aside usually becomes emergency funds around here.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 12, 2019)

The hospital will set you up on payments. Go haggle over the price. They will charge you an exorbitant price because they can. Insurance, medicare and medicare supplements NEVER pay the asking price. Why should you? Haggle the price down, don't forget the interest rate, pitch a fit (in a nice way) over that too. You tell them what you can afford to pay, promise to never be late and that you will pay them, but they have to come off the price to something that you can afford and keep the interest rate low too, or else your payment gets eat up by interest and you get nowhere. I have no idea what your credit rating is and it isn't any of my business--I would sweetly tell them to play ball or you will send them $10 a month. Tell them that your credit is in the gutter and that paying them a huge bill that you can never pay off is not your top priority. So what if they screw up your credit?

VERY IMPORTANT. Tell them you want a CLOSED END contract. That means that you have an ending date for when your last payment will be paid, like a house note or car note. Otherwise they will put you on a revolving account, which is like a credit card and the interest will be horrible, plus you will never know when it will finally be paid off. INSIST on a specified number of payments with an ENDING DATE.

I hope this helps, it sure can't hurt to make them a low ball offer, low ball them on the interest rate and specify how many payments you want to make at XX amount per month. If you need to, take someone with you that is a good negotiator. Believe me, the hospital would much rather strike a deal with you than for you to not pay the bill at all.  I wish you the best!


----------



## Bruce (Nov 12, 2019)

If you do have to go the payment plan route, also ensure that you can pay it off early without penalty.

And I agree with Bay, those without insurance get raked over the coals (I refrained from using the words I want to). My guess is they pay more than the actual cost of the "procedure" to balance the "underpayment" that the insurance companies have negotiated. 

Good luck, stay strong.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 13, 2019)

Some places are easier to deal with than others, and fortunately I have some pretty good insurance that’s going to help a ton. I wish our little hospital here could’ve done it, they are great to deal with on pay back options.  Pay a set amount back until it’s all paid off, with no interest.  I think everyone in the county owes the hospital money! 
I found Axtell quality dorpers, they have some nice pictures on their site and I just might have to give them a call.  I also found out someone in the county here apparently raises dorpers, though I don’t know who it is which is weird for this county and I haven’t seen any hair sheep around besides my ram.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Nov 19, 2019)

I really need to invest in some good exterior lighting.  There’s still so much to catch up on at home but by the time I get home from work, where I’m almost caught up, it’s dark or someone needs a hand with something important.  Oh well, that’s winter.  The ewes are fat, Shaun is happy, and Alfalfa has started a new love for goats in others.  My parents recently moved to Oklahoma and my mom flew back to help out with the kids while I was stuck in bed and my wife was at work in the evenings.  They’re looking to buy some property and do their own little homestead as they want to be self reliant.  My mother’s been on a fiber kick, wanting to raise some sort of animal that she could shear and use to make things.  We talked about sheep, she visited a lady with alpacas, but after spending so much time with Falfers she has decided she wants to raise Angora goats.  I barely recognized their existence, now I’ve been her researcher to learn everything we can about them!  It will be a fun project I’m sure.
I finally, after almost 6 years of trying, have gotten my son more interested in horses.  For years he’s only had a slight interest, riding when I pushed him to.  Now he goes out, catches Bro, saddles him up, and awaits review.  I enforce the last bit as the first time he tried without me had the potential to end in disaster.  Then he rides to his hearts content.  Bro’s come a long way from when I first picked him up 10 years ago.  A little history, Bro is a half Arab pinto I picked up from my cousin.  Bro was going to be the first horse she trained and had had him since birth.  Her first time in the saddle she did it in a pasture, not a round corral and he spooked, threw her, and took off running with her dragging behind by a stirrup.  She was done with riding after that, and asked if I was interested.  I was just starting college, but I took him with me and started with him.  He was the spookiest beggar alive and his stop didn’t work really good. For a while after every ride I’d consider selling him for glue, but I wasn’t going to give up.  One day it all just clicked for him.  The spooking stopped, he could stop on a dime, and he became an awesome horse after that.  I trained him as a heel horse because he was too small to be a decent head horse, and I let a friend come teach him to do hunter jumper.  He showed in a few local shows, the equestrian team borrowed him, he was everyone’s favorite.  And he’s the smartest horse I’ve ever had.  I would tie him up to clean his stall, and if I got distracted talking to someone and took a little longer he would get my attention, make sure I had eye contact, then pull his rope loose and walk away.  Hes a great kids horse now, and my kids just love him.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Nov 19, 2019)

Bro sounds awesome!  Glad your son finally decided to come around!


----------



## Baymule (Nov 19, 2019)

I can't imagine my life without horses. They are like breathing to me. Bro sounds like an awesome friend. I am glad that your son now likes to ride, it is the best thing in the world for a kid, to have and ride horses.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 9, 2019)

It’s raining in December!  We had snow for all of 5 days during thanksgiving and now it’s all gone in the valley, but plenty up in the mountains. I dare call that perfect!  It’s warm enough I can do some things outside, but the top of that list had been getting my truck to run.  Both batteries went bad which wasI bought them a year ago but with a two year warranty it’s covered, but of course as long as it was out of commission I decided to fix one or two other things so once my last parts arrive it’ll all be back together and running. I got the hospital bill paid off, it wasn’t near as bad as we thought it would be.  But I’m going to put off any more sheep buying until next year for now.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 9, 2019)

Getting the truck is a good thing. Being able to do it yourself is even better.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 16, 2019)

Truck is running like a champ again.  It’s incredible what a difference new batteries make when starting it up.  I also replaced all the terminal bolts to actual bolts, when I bought the truck they’d used whatever they had on hand and they were a little short/stripped/cross threaded.  Figured I might as well do it right.  
We have a new tomcat that has decided to call our place home, fortunately all the females are spayed.  He’s not the brightest of cats, shortly after he showed up he walked up to Bella while she was eating and hissed at her trying to get her food.  Bella has killed cats before and this looked like a case of natural selection at work.  She whooped him and sent him running up a post, then returned to her meal.  The cat now respects Bella’s space and when she’s out and about he removes himself from the area.
One day I’ll make up my mind about sheep.  I recently made the acquaintance of a gentleman who raises polypay sheep over by town and we got to talking sheep.  He said come spring he could probably make me a deal on a ram and a ewe or two if I decided to change my mind on getting more hair sheep.  I’m weighing pros and cons here.  The biggest thing I’ve learned about my area is that hair sheep are very much looked down upon.  Of course this area is very set in their “traditions”.   My purpose in getting sheep was two fold.  One, I wanted to have the opportunity to train my dogs so breed wasn’t as important.  Bella loves to work and I’m sure would do it all day given the option.  For that purpose hair sheep seem perfect as I don’t have to shear them.  Saves me costs and time.  But my lambs didn’t sell very well.  My second purpose has evolved somewhat, in that I originally wanted to be able to breed some lambs to sell to cover the costs of having my sheep, essentially paying the hay bill and keeping me in the black.  Zero is zero, but it’s still in the black.  But with talk of ag exemptions, an opportunity to drop some insurance payments, and a sudden desire to actually make this a profitable side venture I realize that while I like to do things my way, I have to give the people what they want.  And after discussion with some friends who are 4th generation sheep ranchers, my newly introduced second cousins who turns out live 30 minutes away and are sheep ranchers, and my good friend who works as an Ag lender for the  FSA the people in my area want a wooled animal with a large body.  And with breeding stock they either want a black faced sire or a white faced dam with good maternal qualities.  So I’ll give the people what they want, and continue to enjoy this journey in the sheep business wherever it takes me next.  With all of its tasty benefits of course.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 16, 2019)

And what, pray tell, are the pertinent differences between hair and wool sheep besides the obvious "covering"? 
Can people sell wool for a price that would cover the cost of shearing? Merinos were BIG here in the early/mid 1800's and it was because of the wool. As far as I know, the only way to make any money with sheep now is selling lambs for meat, certainly not by shearing and selling the wool.
Do wool breeds taste different (presumably "better") than hair sheep?
Are the "locals" anti hair sheep simply because "that isn't the way it has been done here"?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 16, 2019)

The biggest issue that gets brought up is size, namely that a good Suffolk or hamp sired lamb will weigh more at sale than a hair sheep.  There is one gentleman who is a large scale producer who is currently slowly swapping over to Dorpers, but the majority are sticking with the programs they’ve had since their forefathers first ran sheep on those mountains.  Honestly a lot of people get influenced by these club lambs, viewing them as the gold standard as to how a sheep should look.  Personally I don’t agree with standards imposed by show animals, as these change frequently and are more about looks than true ability to better the breed.  I respect if you disagree, but that’s my opinion on the matter of show animals.
People stick to their traditions and what they know, and in an area where there are still a lot of wool sheep herds those ideas stick.  I had a few people look at me with disgust when I said I had a hair ram.  And when it came time to sell a buyer I spoke to told me flat out he couldn’t give me a better price as they wouldn’t sell for breed stock and they wouldn’t sell much for meat based on size and appearance (not wool sheep.).
Of course things would be different if the circumstances were better geared towards hair sheep.  If I lived closer to a metropolitan area with more ethnic diversity and people who were more interested in “organic” meats, if I this was my main gig and I had time to advertise and market my product, if there was a shortage of sheep in the area and people couldn’t choose to be picky about their source of lamb, etc.  But sadly the fact is the nearest metropolitan area is over 200 miles away and the ethnic buyers that bailed on me were up there and decided to go with a more local source.  I don’t really have time to market and advertise an alternative lamb source all over the place, and I’m in an area full of woolly buggers, people have their choice of breeds they’re used to consuming.   But from the contacts I have made in the area I can make a profit providing a bigger meatier lamb and breeding stock that they will want to buy to augment their large operations.  So I have to give them what they want according to their personal wants and yes, biases.  I enjoy hair sheep, I like their looks, their manner, and their taste.  But at the end of the day it’s about what my available consumer base wants.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 16, 2019)

Very wise of you to realize the market is what it is and you have to "market" to the market. You might prefer hair sheep. but if nobody around you wants them...…..how big is your freezer? LOL


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 17, 2019)

Market is a funny thing, and changes can be drastic.  75 years ago people wanted a hog with several inches of back fat for rendering lard.  Then it went to “The other white meat” and a leaner pig was being produced.  Now that’s changed again with a desire for a meatier animal with some marbling and they’ve even changed the recommended cook temp for Pork!  Most know professionally I manage a Sow Farm with 5600 sows.  My herd consisted of 2/3 commercial sows that are a large white/landrace cross.  The other 1/3 was pure large white that were bred with land race semen to make more commercial sows.  The decision was handed down that the breeding for replacement gilts would be moved to another facility and we would do strictly commercial breeding using Duroc services.  6 months down the road I was informed that I needed to go back to separating my commercial bred piglets from my large white/duroc piglets.  The reason?  When those piglets were finished they were sent to Japan and the carcass quality of a large white duroc animal was not what the Japanese consumer wanted!  They could almost instantly spot the difference in carcass quality and tell you which had crossbred mothers and which came from the pure breeds!  But that animal would be completely acceptable in the American marketplace.  So you gotta go with what the market wants.
Looking at today’s trends and talk of going green, sustainable, natural as long as animal activists keep their nose out of it I wouldn’t be surprised if wool made a comeback.  Natural sustainable fiber, a renewable resource used to make clothes, blankets, etc with no “harmful chemicals” or “unnatural plastics.”  Maybe not, but who knows what market changes are around the corner in the next 5-10 years


----------



## Bruce (Dec 17, 2019)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> and they’ve even changed the recommended cook temp for Pork!


That would be due to government regulation regarding feeding of the commercial pork industry a few decades back. There should no longer be any parasites in the meat that has to be cooked thoroughly to kill them. DW still will not eat pork with any amount of pink ... though beef has to be medium rare.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 17, 2019)

I would never eat pink pork. @Bruce I am in agreement with your wife on this one. Beef steak has got to be medium rare. No pink pork, must be well done, especially since I raise mine on dirt. I have been known to slaughter and consume feral hogs too. I cut them up in small pieces, looking for the "wolves" encapsulated in the muscle. Even though I know cooking them thoroughly kills the parasites, I find them and cut them out.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 18, 2019)

I think there is a difference between commercially raised pork and pastured pork and ESPECIALLY feral pigs with regard to parasites. Not sure I'd be real happy seeing a parasite in my food.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 18, 2019)

The pigs I raise get wormed, feral hogs get cut in small pieces, carefully gone over and ground for sausage.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 18, 2019)

I dunno I got handed a jar full of large strongyles once and it looked like a bunch of sprouts.  Mixed on a plate you’d never know it was a parasite.
We thankfully do not have a large quantity of feral hogs in Utah.  Most would say we don’t have any period but they are starting to be seen in the Arizona strip.  I don’t know that I’d want to sit there and go through every piece of meat anyway.  I have plenty of pig meat in my freezer anyway, I’m set.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 3, 2020)

I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday season, I know mine was so busy I haven’t hardly been able to do anything around our place.  With all the running around I didn’t get home until very late some nights and Heart the ewe was quick to berate me every time I got in late to get my chores done.  She’ll place her front hooves on the gate so that she can try and bring herself to my eye level to give me a piece of her mind.  She’s easily my favorite and knows it, I guess that’s why she believes she can start bellering at me the moment I pull in late.  But they’re all fat and healthy so there’s not much for her to complain about.  Hopefully they’re all bred by now, Shaun went in with everyone on the 2nd of November and immediately got to work.  
I spent yesterday walking around surveying the area and drawing up some plans for things I’d like to do in the near future, namely move my horses lean to (it‘s portable enough, just time consuming) to the north side and build a sheep shelter next to it, proving the horses with some better windblock and the sheep with a nicer spot to lamb in.  Then move the chicken coop around by there so that I can let them into the sheep pen to scratch around, giving them more protected area to run around in during the day.  And move my tack shed if possible over to where I keep the hay now, moving the hay yard over to the southend of the horse corral and setting up a better area to load and unload sheep in the future.  What I have works, but I’d like it to look a lot better than it does right now.  of course this will all have to happen little by little as funding becomes available, but that’s life.  Dream big and take steps to make it happen.


----------



## thistlebloom (Jan 3, 2020)

It's so nice to have things set up for more efficiency. You sound like me, rearranging shelters and sheds and repurposing areas for better flow. We aren't finished, it seems like the more time we live here the better our ideas get, LOL.
I guess a master plan at the beginning would have been a good idea, but so many things we are doing now were not on the radar back then. 
It sure will be satisfying to you when you get it all squared away the way you envision it.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 3, 2020)

Cow panels. Lordy I loves me some cow panels! I have made so many set ups with cow panels, take them down, move them, set them back up, put them in a pile, then drag them out and do something else with them. 

I get the moving things around for a better way of doing things. I built chicken coops on skids so I could drag them around too. I finally figured out where I want the coop. Temporary works and it lets us see how we can make things better.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 5, 2020)

I can honestly say I’ve changed my horse corrals shape, size, and materials at least 4 times by now.  When we first moved here he had it set up how he liked it and I was too house poor to set it up how I wanted to.  I tried to set it all up close to existing water sources and I’ve changed where I throw my feed a dozen times as well.  When I built the sheep pen I had an idea that works with what I have with minimal movement of anything.  It works, but it could be a lot better.  The set up in my mind should flow better, it’ll be easier to set up some alleys for easier sheep sorting.  Last year when I separated Shaun from the ewes I ran them all into my little round corral I built to work with the dogs and had to rope and hog tie him then turn all the ewes back to their pen.  Then I untied him.  Sure it works, but it could be so much better.  Also my tack shed is hidden over behind the garage where it’s invisible from the house.  I’d like it where I can see it, makes it easier to watch my kids saddling or if I’m shoeing a horse they can see me.  I hate the way the previous owner thought, But now I’m finally in more of a position to do it my way


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 10, 2020)

I gotta say this winter has been great!  We’ve gotten a little snow but it doesn’t stick around here very long, and it’s been 45 most days.  With plenty of snow left on the mountain where it can stay until we need it.  It makes everything so much nicer not having to break ice or pack buckets all over creation.  I like it.
So I’m going to take a little field trip today to look at some ram lambs, they’ll be a year in April.  They’re priced right and they look good in pictures so it’s worth the short trip.  Depending on what kind of guarantees I can get I may pick one up who knows.  If nothing else it’s a new contact for future possibilities


----------



## Baymule (Jan 10, 2020)

Take pictures of the ram lamb you buy! I hope you get a good one!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 11, 2020)

So I got there and he had 4 ram lambs, one Suffolk/hamp cross and three polypay.  The price was good, and he guaranteed the ram saying if he wound up being a dud he would trade him out.  He also had errands to run my way today so he would deliver.  So this morning we got our new ram that my daughters have named “Gus Gus”.  



Fun fact sheet
He was a triplet
He’s out of the guys favorite ewe and ram
His mother is an older ewe that has consistently thrown triplets and even quads, raising them all
So genetically he has some good history.  
depending on how my finances are in the summer I may buy a ewe or two as well from him.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 12, 2020)

Those are good genetics! Which breed is he?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 12, 2020)

He’s a polypay.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 13, 2020)

Well we got a whole whopping inch of snow yesterday, and it was gone by noon.  Gus Gus seems to be settling in nicely, I have him separated for now to make sure all is well.  He’s eating and drinking just fine, and hes much more polite about his feed bucket than Shaun is.  Shaun would knock it over and head butted it all over creation, I tied it and he just broke it.  Gus Gus eats what he wants, leaves it goes back for seconds, leaves it and it sits there with whatever he didn’t want to eat until tomorrow.  
Dear Shaun on the other hand has been listed for sale.  This could prove difficult around here but I’mhoping someone up north will see it and come for him.  If not I’ll figure something out


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 14, 2020)

I have a conundrum.  When my parents decided they wanted to move to Oklahoma my mom gave me some of her chickens, her little feather babies that she fed meal worms and loved dearly.  Great, we’ve appreciated them and they’ve done alright at laying eggs.  But now I can safely say I haven’t seen an egg since September, and I’ve run out of tricks.  I’ve given them light, scratch, feed with higher protein, good deep straw, and it’s been an incredibly mild winter.  Plenty of snow on the mountain, but today it’s almost 50 degrees.  My mom seems shocked that I haven’t gotten an egg in all that time because they laid so well for her.  So my conundrum has become so I keep waiting and praying that they start laying again soon meanwhile potentially wasting feed, or do I turn them into dog food?  Do I love my chickens, sure they were mom’s. But if they’re not laying eggs anymore then they’re just fancy lawn ornaments, and if I want one of those I can buy some garden gnomes that I don’t have to feed.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 14, 2020)

How old are the hens?  They only have a finite number of eggs in their systems.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 14, 2020)

They turned 3 about the time they stopped laying according to her.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 14, 2020)

They should still be laying but our 3 year olds are still laying huge eggs although not as many as when they were younger.  I don't know how your winters affect them though.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 14, 2020)

When did you start giving them light and how many hours of daylight do they get? 

I have 3 hens that are 7.5 years old, they don't lay in the winter, normally start up mid to late February though 2 of them only seem to lay so they can go broody. But the EE has never gone broody .... and she's laid 2 eggs in the past week. I do not light my coop. I also have hens from 2015, 2017, 2018 and the 8 pullets from 2019. All the pullets are laying as are 2 of the 2015s, one of the 2017s and one of the 2018s. I don't understand the change since like the 2012s none of the older girls have ever laid in winter past their pullet winter and the 2017's and 2018's not even then.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 17, 2020)

I suppose I’ll give these gals a few more weeks to see if they come out of it. 
I woke up to snow on the ground today, not sure if it’ll stick but I’ll take it.  We also had some excitement last night with a 4.0 earthquake.  The whole house shook for a second and then it was over.  My wife and kids have never experienced one before so they were a little shook up (pun intended).


----------



## Xerocles (Jan 17, 2020)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> they’ve done alright at laying eggs.  But now I can safely say I haven’t seen an egg since September, and I’ve run out of tricks.


Are they free range or kept in a run?


----------



## Bruce (Jan 17, 2020)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> We also had some excitement last night with a 4.0 earthquake. The whole house shook for a second and then it was over. My wife and kids have never experienced one before so they were a little shook up (pun intended).


That is a pretty good size quake. I hope it runs "normal" with no or "decreasing in intensity" aftershocks, not like what is happening in Puerto Rico.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1 (Jan 17, 2020)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> They turned 3 about the time they stopped laying according to her.


Do you know what breeds...because, they could...be done........and the stress, just didn’t help...


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1 (Jan 17, 2020)

Hol


Bruce said:


> That is a pretty good size quake. I hope it runs "normal" with no or "decreasing in intensity" aftershocks, not like what is happening in Puerto Rico.


y cow!!  I can’t imagine...you seem so calm about it!!  Glad you’re ok!!


----------



## Bruce (Jan 17, 2020)

Well, it wasn't MY quake, it was HDC's 

But then I grew up in So. Cal and GENERALLY speaking the quakes haven't been near as bad as what Puerto Rico was (is??) getting. I'd be sleeping out in the streets if I was them too. I think a 4 is probably the highest I ever felt. There were some worse ones after I moved that vaulted roadways and created drops of several feet


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1 (Jan 17, 2020)

Bruce said:


> Well, it wasn't MY quake, it was HDC's
> 
> But then I grew up in So. Cal and GENERALLY speaking the quakes haven't been near as bad as what Puerto Rico was (is??) getting. I'd be sleeping out in the streets if I was them too. I think a 4 is probably the highest I ever felt. There were some worse ones after I moved that vaulted roadways and created drops of several feet


Holy smokes alive!!  Imagine your Ibeams!   we have tornadoes...twice though this very town...my uncle and best friend had major damage.   But earthquakes....a hole opening up in ground???  Leave me out!!


----------



## Bruce (Jan 17, 2020)

I'd rather a relatively small earthquake to a tornado. Most of the time you just feel some rocking. More powerful ones might crack drywall joints, go up a step and things fall off shelves. Opening up a hole in the ground isn't very common at all. Tornados? They rip houses right off the ground and strew them everywhere. Rip trees out, strew them everywhere. Throw cars all over the place. NO THANKS!!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1 (Jan 17, 2020)

Bruce said:


> I'd rather a relatively small earthquake to a tornado. Most of the time you just feel some rocking. More powerful ones might crack drywall joints, go up a step and things fall off shelves. Opening up a hole in the ground isn't very common at all. Tornados? They rip houses right off the ground and strew them everywhere. Rip trees out, strew them everywhere. Throw cars all over the place. NO THANKS!!


Yeah, it did tear the whole second floor off my friends house.  My uncle’s backyard was gone...she’d gone..tree split in half..garagre half tore down...  I guess...they both stink...and..it seems we fear more what we don’t know than what we do....


----------



## Baymule (Jan 17, 2020)

Three year old hens slow down on laying, but still eat as much as they ever did. If they are sex links, they are pretty much done. I usually butcher 3-4 year old hens and can the meat, they make wonderful broth and I can that too. 

How many chickens do you have? I used to play by the rule of 6. 6 chicks in early spring were generally laying by fall/early winter. The next spring, I got 6 more chicks, different breed or color. They started laying by fall/early winter and the first batch of chicks were molting. The first batch would start laying again in the spring. The next spring I got 6 more chicks, different breed, different color. They started laying in fall/early winter. This made the 2nd molt for batch #1 and I butchered them. It was the 1st molt for batch #2 and they started laying in the spring. 

Each spring I got 6 chicks, each fall I butchered the 6 oldest and kept the 6 on their first molt. It worked for me and we always had eggs. 

Now I have a lot of chickens, all ages. I have 14 pullets starting to lay. I have 5 hens that are 3-5 years old and a 4 year old rooster. I have 4 hens in their 3rd year. I did have a dozen more, but they got packed in a jar and made some bodacious broth. I need to get back on my schedule. LOL


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 18, 2020)

We started with 8, 5 Sussex and 3 Brahma.  We got rid of the Brahmas because a couple were egg eaters and I couldn’t narrow it down to which 2.  Then we lost one Sussex and are at four.  I’m thinking of getting 6 Rhode Island’s in spring.
As to the earthquake I was actually born in Southern California and visited family there frequently.  Earthquakes don’t freak me out that much, especially not in my rural area where there is no real danger I feel.  Tornadoes, those honestly scare me.  I still have memories of being a little boy in Texas crammed by my brother and my dog in a bathtub with my mom over top of us as a tornado touched down across the street.  We were in a little apartment and that’s the only place we had to shelter.  I’ll take a 4.0 earthquake any day of the week over that.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 18, 2020)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Tornadoes, those honestly scare me. I still have memoriee a couple of s of being a little boy in Texas crammed by my brother and my dog in a bathtub with my mom over top of us as a tornado touched down across the street. We were in a little apartment and that’s the only place we had to shelter. I’ll take a 4.0 earthquake any day of the week over that.


Yep!!! I suppose I might feel differently if I'd been through a severe earthquake but I never did in the 23 years I lived in So. Cal. 

I like to have a couple of several breeds, that way I can tell who is laying. Not that it matters to their lifespan here but I do like to know. At least that way I know which breeds have been better layers and what size they lay, what sort of temperament they have, at least for me. As a result I have "repeats" of Black Australorps, Easter Eggers and White Rocks. Won't again get Faverolles, Ancona, Exchequer Leghorns.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 21, 2020)

I cannot recall ever having such a mild winter here in Utah.  Snow didn’t stick around very long in the valleys but we’re above average for snow pack in the mountains.  It’s really kind of nice. Gus Gus is still separated and getting spoiled, where he’s still a growing boy I’ve been making sure he gets a little something extra.  Still not very friendly, but I think I prefer that to being over confident.  Yesterday I was visiting with a friend and we were looking at his sheep and he’d borrowed a big Hamp ram from another guy in town.  His boy said they’d been told the ram could get aggressive, but as we stood there the ram walked right by.  So of course I had to comment that the ram wasn’t mean, he was just a big puppy dog. My friend turns to look at the ram, the ram turns back around and tried to head butt him!  Go figure.  At least the ram was honest and only went at him when they were facing!


----------



## Bruce (Jan 21, 2020)

Seems the ram has an opinion of your friend. I wonder how that adversarial relationship developed.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 27, 2020)

So Saturday we did a little mixing around.  Someone called on Shaun and they are coming to get him today, so I swapped rams around with GusGus in with the ewes and Shaun separated into the little round pen.  Heart and Dotty immediately took a liking to GusGus and have been hanging with him ever since.  Bellwether has been her usually uppity self and stays far away in the corner until feeding time.  I don’t care if she has triplets she has beyond annoyed me.  I plan to replace her this year if all goes according to plan.  Maybe get 2 more ewes to replace her, good herd bound ewes who have a brain and don’t just flop down on the ground.  That’s her new trick when I try to work Bella on the sheep,  she just flops on the ground like she’s dead and will not get up.  It’s great for shearing, not so much for anything else.
Here’s little GusGus in his new spot.  


He seems pretty content.  After seeing that ornery Suffolk my friend has I laugh at how little he still is.  He’ll be a year in April, he’s got time to grow though I know he’ll never get as big as that other buck.  But that’s not his purpose, he’s the start of my selling replacement ewes program, not a commercial terminal sire.  It’s a little long game as he has no influence over this years lamb crop and I’ll only have one or two polypay ewes for next year if everything goes according to plan, but the long game has to start sometime.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 1, 2020)

So the guy never came for Shaun, so he got to stay until yesterday.  Now he’s off to his next adventure of servicing a small herd of black belly crosses.  GusGus is more than happy with the girls, and it’s still really warm here.  We’re kinda boring around here lately but oh well.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 1, 2020)

Is GusGus a Polypay and are you switching to Polypay sheep?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 2, 2020)

GusGus is a Polypay.  Ideally I will be able to pick up a ewe or two this summer.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 3, 2020)

Snow!  Woke up this morning to a couple inches of snow and it’s still coming down.  I’m not going to complain, more water is a good thing.  I prefer not to go back to paying drought prices, it was a little rough for a while when I was paying double what I pay today for lesser quality hay.  But I also had a different hay guy then.  One day, when the stars align and excess money starts flowing I hope to have some good pasture.  And a hay field.  And nicer facilities.  And the list goes on, as I’m sure it does for everyone.  For now, I’m just happy I’ve got something, it’s better than nothing


----------



## Baymule (Feb 3, 2020)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> One day, when the stars align and excess money starts flowing I hope to have some good pasture.  And a hay field.  And nicer facilities.  And the list goes on, as I’m sure it does for everyone.  For now, I’m just happy I’ve got something, it’s better than nothing



Nothing like being grateful for what you have. And nothing wrong with wanting to improve what you have.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 4, 2020)

Last year winter came late in the year, and seemed to come right when my first lambs were hitting the ground.  The triplets were born at this time last year and it snowed several inches and the temperature dropped.  They spent the next couple weeks in my homemade lambing jug in the garage.  This year I decided to breed for later lambing and I am so glad I did.  It snowed yesterday and the temperature this morning is -13.  Instead of being worried about possible lambs freezing I got to lay in my warm bed thinking about lambs in April.  I’m glad I learned my lesson last year.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 4, 2020)

It is all a matter of finding what works for you and your flock, where you live, what weather you have and when it all comes to together. Sounds like you nailed it!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 5, 2020)

We had a little higher temp this morning,-6! I’ve been too spoiled this winter.  as I was hauling buckets of water I realized how great it’s been being able to use a hose everyday and remembering one more thing on my list of wants, a new waterline that goes right to the corrals.  With a heated trough!


----------



## Bruce (Feb 5, 2020)

You might not want that heated trough when the electric bill comes! But having water right at the corrals would be a huge benefit.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 5, 2020)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> We had a little higher temp this morning,-6! I’ve been too spoiled this winter.  as I was hauling buckets of water I realized how great it’s been being able to use a hose everyday and remembering one more thing on my list of wants, a new waterline that goes right to the corrals.  With a heated trough!


Don't forget the heated waterhose!


----------



## thistlebloom (Feb 5, 2020)

Bruce said:


> You might not want that heated trough when the electric bill comes! But having water right at the corrals would be a huge benefit.



I will happily pay the higher electric bill to keep all the heated waterers. Hauling water and breaking ice gets very old very fast. 
I don't actually know how much they increase my bill, but it doesn't seem like it's too much. I have 3 troughs, and 3 dog bowls, one is the chickens. The cats also have a heated kennel mat in their insulated house.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 15, 2020)

It went right back to lovely weather so no more ice in the trough or hauling buckets.  I finally got a manger built for the sheep pen to keep them from stomping all over their feed.  Today I trimmed 5 horses for a friend and I’m beat.  Trimming and shoeing is so much easier when you’re doing it every day.  In college a good friend of mine taught me how to shoe and we had quite the business all over northern Utah and southern Idaho and would run after classes or on the weekends and do a ton of horses.  Now I just do mine and a friends and it’s a lot harder to do 5 horses anymore.  I’m definitely out of shape


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1 (Feb 15, 2020)

thistlebloom said:


> I will happily pay the higher electric bill to keep all the heated waterers. Hauling water and breaking ice gets very old very fast.
> I don't actually know how much they increase my bill, but it doesn't seem like it's too much. I have 3 troughs, and 3 dog bowls, one is the chickens. The cats also have a heated kennel mat in their insulated house.


We use heat tape for our 300 gallon water tank in the barn and in 5gallon buckets for water for most.  The ducks ate through the heat tape twice and blew the breaker!  Darned ducks!


----------



## Bruce (Feb 16, 2020)

Better than blowing the duck! Maybe a stock tank deicer would be a better choice than heat tape, likely cheaper on the electric bill a well.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 23, 2020)

After a nice warm winter we finally got snow last night!  It started as rain and started really coming down when we went to bed.  Woke up to 5 inches or so that’s already starting to melt, I imagine it will be gone by Tuesday.  So we decided to have some fun while it lasted and made a snowataur!  



we don’t have an abundance of trees for snowman arms but sagebrush works great in a pinch.  Can’t always be all work right?


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Feb 23, 2020)

Love it!


----------



## Baymule (Feb 23, 2020)

That's the kind of fun that kids remember all their lives. You done good.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 27, 2020)

Well the snow has lasted a lot longer than I thought it would and we’re supposed to receive more on Sunday.  So rather than try to get anything done out in the cold I’ve been doing work inside as we decided to put our tax return toward finishing our basement.  I did manage to talk my wife out of trying to do it all at once as I’d prefer not to have anymore debt than necessary so we’ll do a bedroom and family room for now.  I’ve got the room pretty much framed in the last two days and I’ll start on the other half today.  One thing I find neat in all of this is I get to use the old saw my grandpa used to build his house back in 1970.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 29, 2020)

According to my calculations my ewes will start lambing the first part of April, and with snow in the forecast and our lovely weather being what it is I decided to go out and crutch the ewes today.  Seeing as the ram had a lot of dingleberries clinging on I trimmed him up too.  It’s not the prettiest but hey at least it’s done and we should be golden in a months time


----------



## Baymule (Mar 2, 2020)

I'm glad to have hair sheep so I don't have to fool with that, or shearing either! Snow in April? Awww NO!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1 (Mar 2, 2020)

Baymule said:


> I'm glad to have hair sheep so I don't have to fool with that, or shearing either! Snow in April? Awww NO!


Here too!!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 3, 2020)

We were supposed to get snow on Sunday which never showed.  Snow in April isn’t common but it happens.  Where I still have a month before lambs start hitting the ground witch chances of snow and cold I like to make sure the ewes are comfortable, then probably a month after they lamb I’ll go out and shear them.  Where I only have a handful it’s not worth bringing someone out here to do it so I get to go out with the blade shears.  It’s not the prettiest job but like the difference between a good haircut and a bad haircut it’s only a matter of weeks.  I think I did an alright job clutching this year.



Heart here was a lot easier to do than Dotty.  Partly because her tail is a lot shorter.  I didn’t dock heart, but she came here when the twins were a day old.  As a new sheep owner, I was determined to do right by them and knew that tail length plays a part in rectal prolapses.  So after doing a little online research looking at studies done in the UK and Australia I decided best practice would be to dock so that her tail could just cover her vulva.  And I’ve learned since that Dotty will suck that tail stub down tight over her vulva and blending everything into an impenetrable wall of wool.  So I have to be extra careful cutting around there so I don’t nip the tail or worse.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 3, 2020)

Especially the "or worse" !!



High Desert Cowboy said:


> I think I did an alright job clutching this year.


Or crutching 
I don't think the sheep look in mirror after they are sheared. Good thing my 2 alpacas don't.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 5, 2020)

I can’t say I’ve ever tried to trim an alpaca before.  I imagine you can’t really put them in their rump to shear so how is it done? 
Yesterday I was checking on the ewes and heart and Dotty are big! Bellwether isn’t nearly as big as she was last year but last year that last month she really blew up. I remember telling my wife I thought she might have triplets with how close her belly got to the ground by the end of it. I noticed Hearts starting to get a little bit of a bag going. And I’m sure they’ll love the break they’re getting, poor Bella misses her sheep but I figure I don’t want to work them for the month before and after lambing. I don’t want toover stress. For now we do a little work on positioning and directions on Alfalfa the goat, he’s not the biggest fan but for now he’s what I got, everyone else’s cows are calving or about to calve and again we don’t want to stress them.


----------



## Baymule (Mar 5, 2020)

That looks like a good crutching job to me. Autocorrect on my phone changed it to crunching. LOL


----------



## thistlebloom (Mar 5, 2020)

Bruce said:


> Especially the "or worse" !!
> 
> 
> Or crutching
> I don't think the sheep look in mirror after they are sheared. Good thing my 2 alpacas don't.



Probably because it's really hard to hold that mirror for a fanny look. Especially with no opposable thumbs.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 6, 2020)

Yeah, and only 2 toes per foot!




High Desert Cowboy said:


> can’t say I’ve ever tried to trim an alpaca before. I imagine you can’t really put them in their rump to shear so how is it done?


Most of the time they are stretched out on the ground with their forelegs pulled one way and hind legs the other. I built a stand 18" off the ground, figured it would be less traumatizing for them. There is a board at the right height to clip their halters to keep them on their feet. Teddy puts up with it though not at all happily. Laddie still fights like someone is trying to kill him. Even with his head held high and all for feet tied to the corners he still bucks, tries to drop. Real PITA and wears out the poor people (us) trying to shear him. He didn't even get sheared last spring.



Baymule said:


> That looks like a good crutching job to me. Autocorrect on my phone changed it to crunching. LOL


That would be an alternate method of rendering a ram lamb unable to make babies in the future.


----------



## thistlebloom (Mar 6, 2020)

Bruce said:


> Most of the time they are stretched out on the ground with their forelegs pulled one way and hind legs the other. I built a stand 18" off the ground, figured it would be less traumatizing for them. There is a board at the right height to clip their halters to keep them on their feet.



That's interesting, I never actually thought about the process. Sounds like alpacas are not easily acclimated to routine handling.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 8, 2020)

I think it depends on the animal and their history. These 2 were given to us 3 years ago, presumably 6 or so years old. Before the people moved to Florida I saw the husband at the grocery store and asked how they managed to work with the boys given how much they don't like to be touched. He said "We manhandled them". Might be the reason they don't like to be touched you think? Laddie was a purchased animal but Teddy was born at their place. Clearly they didn't spend a lot of quality time with him when he was young.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 9, 2020)

There’s a lady I go to church with who raises alpacas and sells the wool?  Hair?, but I can’t say I’ve ever been to check it out.  I can say the fiber from an alpaca is great, I have a nice sweater from Peru that was made out of baby alpaca fiber and it’s incredible


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 9, 2020)

So this weekend I had planned to trim Jack and work on framing the basement.  But of course I said those plans out loud.  Friday afternoon I get a call that the water is out and they don’t know when it’s going to be back on.  We’re on a shared well.  Being my helpful self I decide to lend a hand and start trying to locate parts.  For whatever reason once the line is dug up we find out it’s a six inch line, even though it’s 4 leaving the well house and three on the end, but this spot is 6 and the local store doesn’t carry 6 inch and the nearest town that does the store that carries it was going to be closed by the time we get there.  I track down a part and as we’re trying to get it on Murphy’s law went into full swing and delayed us another several hours.  At one point my wife called and asked if I planned on coming home.  I said “Sure, but I’m covered in mud from head to toe and if I walk off we won’t have water until tomorrow.”  She suddenly didn’t want Me home and we finally managed to get it fixed by 11 at night.  Saturday was more of a comedy of errors as we had to run to town which turned into an all day trip.  Finally today I grabbed my 10 year old and said we were framing and I would be condemned (editing here) if anyone was going to stop me.  Got a few walls up and feel accomplished.
On a side note the sheep are looking bigger and bigger and Heart has a decent udder developing.  Should be seeing lambs in 4-5 weeks.


----------



## thistlebloom (Mar 9, 2020)

Why are plumbing projects always like that? Plumbing , piping, water work... it's always such a trial. Back and forth to the hardware store. Glad you got it fixed, trying to clean up a muddy self with a water bottle wouldn't have been much fun. I laughed at "suddenly didn't want me home' 😄


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 10, 2020)

Poor Alfalfa.  He has led such a easy life full of ear scratches and apples he’s finding it very unfair that I’ve been using him as my practice dummy for Bella.  Fortunately for him she is much better behaved than she was as a pup.  I remember once when he was living in the chicken coop and Bella was a pup she chased him in and then bit down and tried to drag him out!  She was such a mouthy little thing, now she still nips on occasion but understands that it’s not a necessary act.  Everyday when he gets fed I try to put Bella through the rounds of herding Alfalfa to me.  It may be just one animal but you can tell she loves every minute of it.  She’s got to work.  And we learned she’s a Carhartt girl, or maybe just a daddy’s girl.  For Christmas my wife bought me a new coat and finally convinced me to throw my old Carhartt away.  I got it my senior year of high school and it is pretty shredded, there’s really not enough patches in the world to put it back together.  As I walked to the trash can I decided I’d rather put it in the dog house for the dogs to use for bedding.  The warm interior was still in great shape, the exterior was what was thrashed.  We’ve tried this before with old blankets and towels and Bella and Kya just tore them to little pieces so it’s no great loss if they repeat.  Bella pulled it out of the dog house and packs it around like my 18 month old with a blankie.  She lays it down wherever she wants to rest and cuddles in.  And she had made it clear she’s not sharing!  
I had to laugh at Heart today, she was getting enthusiastic at the trough and as she was eating her udder was jiggling like crazy.  Do they make bras for sheep?  I’ve noticed that Dotty doesn’t seem to be developing an udder yet but I’m almost positive she’s pregnant with how big she’s been getting lately.  Of course she’s also a first timer which probably helps things stay tight until the end.  Bellwether, she looks pregnant but I haven’t been able to check her udder very closely.  I can only get her to stand still for me when I have Bella, and where I’m giving the girls a break for this last month of pregnancy she is keeping her distance.  And Gus Gus just keeps eating, he’s a growing boy after all.  I’m not trying too much to be all over him, he is a ram and I want to insure we understand personal space.  He was good to be handled for the“dagging” as it’s apparently called when you cut dingleberries out of a rams wool but I don’t push it.  He’ll be a year next month, so I won’t say he’s a very well behaved ram as there is time for that to change and the last time I commented on a rams behavior someone got head butted.  For now it’s only him getting head butted by Dotty on occasion, I really don’t know what is up with that ewe.  I thought it was just a twin thing but after Lambert left she started butting heads with Shaun and now she does the occasional cheap shot at Gus Gus.  But he’s smitten and she’s his favorite ewe to chill with.


----------



## thistlebloom (Mar 11, 2020)

That's sweet about Bella and your old Carharrt coat.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 12, 2020)

Today bellwether got close enough with her back end to me that I could see she’s starting to get a bag as well. So ideally we should have 6 lambs this year.  I say ideally of course, things happen.  But Heart had twins with her first, Dotty is Hearts baby and has that going for her, and Bellwether had triplets last year.  I’ve done my part, their genetics will do their part, and the rest is out of my hands.


----------



## Baymule (Mar 12, 2020)

Plumbing always turns into the nightmare you wish you didn't have. Good that you finally got it fixed. Your ewes seem to be coming along nicely, looking for ward to lamb pictures.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 13, 2020)

And this right here is why I crutched vs shearing. I woke up and it was 41 degrees and at 7am it started snowing.  Ah Utah, the land of 4 seasons in a day


----------



## Mike CHS (Mar 13, 2020)

You obviously made the right choice.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 20, 2020)

Well it snowed again Wednesday and it was gone by the end of the day.  Then it snowed for a minutes yesterday and was gone again.  Today it’s snowing again and I doubt it’ll be there by noon.  At this rate can we just get rain?  Either way it’s gonna turn everything muddy.  My paints are now one solid color though.


----------



## Ridgetop (Mar 21, 2020)

Just got through catching up on your thread.  I hadn't been able to find it.  I often lose these threads and can't find my way back to them!

If you are planning to sell your sheep commercially you might as well go to what is desired by the buyers.  No point in raising sheep that are not going to sell.  Granted the larger Hamps and Suffolks will give you a larger carcass.  It will have more bone, thus more weight, but will also cost more to put the meat on.  Smaller framed and boned Dorpers are coming into favor among commercial breeders and packers because they put meat on smaller frames producing  meatier market lamb in less time on less feed.  However, since the Hamp and Suffolk breeds and speckle face crosses are what your customers want that is what you have to provide.    Using your Polypay ram on your Hamp and Suffolk style ewes will hopefully put more meat on the frames and help them gain better.  Eventually, once you have built your flock up a bit you can look into Texels as terminal sires.  When crossed with other breeds they have the reputation of putting huge amounts of meat into the lambs.  You don't want to keep any breeding stock out of those crosses though.  All the Texel sired crosses should go to slaughter.  Texels are only used as terminal sires to produce cross bred market lambs, or with purebred Texel ewes to produce breeding stock.  Where are you planning to market your lambs?  

If you plan to increase your flock of woolies though, you might want to look into getting a used electric shears.  If you have a good heavy duty horse clipper with a removable head, check if the manufacturer makes a sheep head for it. Buying a sheep head for a heavy duty large Oster type horse clipper will be much cheaper.   A sheep head is heavier than a standard cattle/horse/goat head.  It will take the larger and coarser blades you will need for shearing.  The fleece on sheep is thick with grease and the clipper has a hard time cutting through it.  Trying to shear sheep with a standard horse/cattle clipper will burn it out PDQ.   Clippers come in all different price ranges and grades.  If you can find an older Oster sheep shears they can be rehabbed.  The older clippers are very good although heavy.  Once you find a clipper and buy blades learn how to sharpen your own blades.  It will save you tons of money.  Be very careful with those shearing blades though.  They can take off a man's finger along with a ewe's teats, and a ram's dingus.  That will ruin the value of your breeding stock for sure!  LOL  just remember to keep the blades sharpened  You will dull a set of blades every 3-4 sheep depending on the dirt in the fleece.  You will need several sets of blades even if you can sharpen them yourself  If you send them out for sharpening look to pay $5 to $10 per blade (2 blades per set) to have them sharpened.  Using Kool Lube on the blades while shearing will help.  The shears below are 20-25 years old, but in good shape and still cutting beautifully.  


  Andis electric clipper & blades - these are about 20 years old
  Hoenigger electric clipper, detachable head, & blades - about 25 years old
 Hand shears - great for small jobs but for big ones OUCH! - about 50 years old

Since you have made the acquaintance of the Polypay breeder, see if you can go over to his place during shearing and learn how to use the big electric shears.  They will probably be happy for the help and you can get tips on doing it yourself.  Your crutching job with the hand shears was great, but shearing a whole flock with those hand shears will make you think your hand is crippled!  The Polypay breeder might even have an old set of shears he will sell you, or know of someone with one.  If you have wool sheep and are able to shear yourself, they are worth the money.  
So glad I found your journal.  Can't wait to see your new lambs.  GusGus  is hoping they are all ewes.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 22, 2020)

The polypay breeder I bought GusGus from doesn’t shear his flock.  Apparently there is a textile plant in Parowan where you can haul your stock to and they’ll charge you a certain amount to do it in house.  I have my hand shears that I used last year to shear 4 ewes.  After the first two ewes and lots of time I had my mom bring her scissor sharpening setup and she fixed me up so that the next 2 were a breeze.  Ideally as I have more finances available I’ll buy a set of clippers.  Right now I can’t justify the cost so my handshears will do just fine.  It’s not the prettiest shear job, but it works.  I just take it slower and maybe leave the wool a tad longer to insure there are no nicks.  One thing I learned as a farrier, taking it as short as possible is what gets you into trouble.  And anytime I clip around sensitive areas I double check every cut.  Speed comes with experience, and if your experience is only a handful of ewes a year speeds a little slower in coming.  
Looking long term my goal is to provide maternal replacements, utilizing finances made from terminal cross lambs to purchase polypay ewes and slowly over the next few years make that transition.  As I sat and penciled out between selling breeding rams or ewes I came to the conclusion that ewes would be a better option.  For Suffolks or Hampshires I needed more money up front for a quality animal, and prolificacy would be lower.  Polypays would be more affordable to get into and we’re looking at more babies a year.  They are also more gregarious than paternal breeds so for training sheep dogs they also made more sense.  At the end of the day I got sheep for dog training.  Making a little cash on the side is just bonus.


----------



## Ridgetop (Mar 22, 2020)

Very sensible.  Always look at the bottom line.  I like the idea of the Polypay ewes.  You are also right about selling breeding ewes once you have enough Polypays for production.  Like I said, good rams are easy to come by, but everyone is always buying replacement ewes.  They are always in demand.  You always need more ewes than rams, and even when producing your own replacements, the point will come where you want to add a couple other bloodlines to your flock.  Sometimes just bringing in another ram won't fit your plans.  Selling all the ram lambs for meat is the way to go.  I don't ever keep one of my own ram lambs as a breeder.  I prefer bringing in a new ram and keeping my replacement ewe lambs from dams that are prolific, easy lambers, good mothers, and that produce a lot of milk so the lambs grow well.  I like my lambs to make 100 lbs. around 4 months old.  Today we weighed lambs, and an *8 week old single ram lamb out of a yearling first freshener weighed 66.3 lbs!*   What a wonderful surprise - no creep either!

Assuming Parowan is close to you, and as long as you don't have more sheep to shear than you can fit in your stock trailer the textile plant would be the way to go.  You don't have to shear your ewes until they are a year old (baby wool) and usually they will lamb by 14 months.  So you will just have to crutch the yearlings before they lamb and then have them shorn the following year.  

Sounds like you have your plan lined out..  You have to like what you raise, and be able to sell them.  No sense having hair sheep if no one will buy them.  I was interested in Polypays when I started out years ago but they were still a fairly new breed, and none available anywhere near me.  Polypays are a good dual purpose breed, combining 4 breeds to get the qualities they want.  it is exciting that you have decided on your breed and business plan.  Can't wait to hear how your sheep business develops.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 24, 2020)

Sadly @Ridgetop i have a bad case of DIY.  Or as my wife likes to call it, I’m too cheap to take the easy way.  Parowan isn’t terribly far but I figure shearing a sheep can be one more pointless talent I can add to my repertoire. Besides you never know what could happen, at this rate coronavirus might destroy society as we know it and I’ll have to blade shear my sheep to have wool to clothe my family as the poor city folk shank each other with broken cell phones for the last pair of Levi’s in the store.  
In all honestly I really like to do things myself. Especially something new or difficult as it gives me something to learn.
Snapped a picture of Heart today, shes looking uncomfortable.  Her udder is really dangling anymore


----------



## Ridgetop (Mar 25, 2020)

Do not discount your "pointless" talents!  You never know what might come in handy in life.   Having accumulated many, many "pointless" talents, I cannot tell you the number of times I have ended up using them! 

If Coronavirus destroys life as we know it , consider that you own a set of wicked shears, and know how to sharpen them yourself.  In dire necessity if you need an alternate profession you could set up as a barber.  

Heart's udder is definitely starting to dangle.  As soon as it starts to fill out from side to side you will know your lambs are on their way.  Not knowing how large your ewes' udders get, it looks like a couple more weeks at least.   The crutching on the back of that ewe looks pretty good to me.  I don't like to take ewes down to the skin anyway unless the weather has definitely changed for the better.  Shearing before lambing is designed to make the ewes seek shelter with their lambs so the ewes and lambs don't freeze.  If you don't have shelter for the ewes in a barn, the sudden removal of their wool can lead to pneumonia if the weather drops super cold again.  Hair sheep carry a covering of hair under the wool so you don't have to worry about them freezing even when their wool sheds out.  Hair breeds like Dorpers were not designed to live in _extreme_ cold like some of the wool breeds. Leaving some wool on their delicate parts helps protect udders and vaginas in very cold weather


----------



## Ridgetop (Mar 25, 2020)

By the way - cheap is good.  These days we can afford to have people do stuff for us, but it never occurs to us to go that route.  
First, when you do it yourself, you do it the way you want.  
Second if you decide halfway through that it would be better to change your plan, there is no "plan change overage" charge.  
Third, DIY is more fun!  Think of all the great stores you have to tell.  And it is very fulfilling.

I love DIY.  And cheap.  I *really *love cheap!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 28, 2020)

Today marks the earliest possible day that any lambs could come.  147 days ago I put Shaun in with the ewes, and with 8 feet of distance between the pens I know he didn’t get access before then.
Today I started to move the chicken coop, but in the end I tore it apart as I have a plan to better it and nows a good time as we don’t have chickens at the moment.  I’m hoping to pick some up this week.  I also managed to get Jack trimmed today.  I’m holding off on shoes for another month probably.  Around here I don’t really need shoes and we won’t be doing any serious riding until mid to late April. So a semi productive day I’d say


----------



## Baymule (Mar 28, 2020)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Besides you never know what could happen, at this rate coronavirus might destroy society as we know it and I’ll have to blade shear my sheep to have wool to clothe my family *as the poor city folk shank each other with broken cell phones for the last pair of Levi’s in the store*.


          

That made me laugh out loud! Too funny!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 30, 2020)

So I got home today and noticed hearts udder was huge!  I took a picture to show you good folk intending to discus how it would be any day now.  About an hour later I looked outside and noticed Heart was off by herself which is something she never does.  I told my wife I was heading outside because we probably had lambs on the ground and I got there about two minutes before the second hit the ground. The little white one came second and is a ewe lamb, Heart was so absorbed in the first I helped a little to make sure the little girl had a clear airway and then let Heart take over.  It’s a good way to start the season!


----------



## thistlebloom (Mar 30, 2020)

Congratulations!


----------



## Baymule (Mar 31, 2020)

Congratulations on the twins!


----------



## Ridgetop (Mar 31, 2020)

Yay for Shun!  He apparently got right down to business!  Hopefully the others will lamb around now too.  One ewe in season usually draws another into season the same time.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 1, 2020)

I didn’t have a lot of time to take pictures yesterday, I pretty much got home grabbed my gear and ran off to shoe a friends horses.  But I did take a minute to handle the little black lamb and it’s a ram so we’re at 1-1.  My boy asked what we’re going to call them so I call them Ebony and Ivory.  My wife got a kick out of that and I had to show my boy a YouTube video so he got the joke


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 2, 2020)

Great  start to the lambing season.  One for the flock and one for the freezer!


----------



## Mike CHS (Apr 2, 2020)

Congratulations.  That is a great way to start the season.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 3, 2020)

A few days later they’re looking good.  I thought Ivory was all white and the dark was just some mud but it turns out she’s got a big brown spot.  And their coats are so different, Ivory has a curly wooly coat and Ebony has a slick hair coat.  The black lambs last year were the same way, slick black hair coats.  I wonder if the genetic trait for hair or wool from the parents is linked to the coat color?


----------



## Bruce (Apr 3, 2020)

Sure seems so from your experience. Hopefully someone in the know will chime in.


----------



## Mike CHS (Apr 3, 2020)

All of our black sheep have the same kind of hair as your black one and all others have hair like your white and brown.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 3, 2020)

I have a black wether with a coat like that. I was so disappointed that he wasn't a she.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 8, 2020)

I only have all white Dorpers, but have both hair and wool coats in my flock.  The curly wooly lambs supposedly will not shed as well as the hairy coated ones.  I wanted to only keep the hairy ewe lambs, but unfortunately I have a couple wooly lambs that I have to keep since they are the only ewe lambs from certain mamas.  I will watch them to see what they do.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 15, 2020)

You know there are days where despite all this social distancing it’s still pretty much business as normal.  Then I have to go in to town and see that everyone has still gone bat turd crazy.  People from Las Vegas and Salt Lake are descending on our little area because we have dog food and tomato plants.  You can’t find chicks at either feed store.  Suddenly everyone wants to be self sufficient which isn’t bad except it sure put a kink in my plans.  We finally just ordered chicks that will be here in 5 weeks.  But we press on and prepare for expansion.  I tore my old coop down and salvaged as much as I could to build a newer, bigger coop back by the sheep.  I really only wanted 6 hens which has always been sufficient for our needs but apparently the site my wife got the chicks from charges an extra 35 bucks if you get under 15 so we just bought the 15.  They’re throwing in one surprise breed straight run chick as a gift as well, plus they usually send a couple extra for transit so we’ll be at somewhere between 16-19 probably.  I also started a new garden plot this year, and it will be fenced off this year to protect it from jackrabbits.  They ate everything last year.  I’d be so proud “Oh look the peas are starting to grow!”  Next day, gone.  “Potato plants are all leafy!”  Not anymore.  “Hey zucchini looks good, nice big plants....hey where’s the actual zucchini?”  It was terrible.  And I don’t have much of a green thumb to begin with.  Murphy’s Law doesn’t help with my limited gardening abilities either, I borrowed a friends tiller and when I picked it up he realized he’d forgotten to fix it from the year before so we had to do some quick repairs and then while I was tilling the muffler fell off!  But we’re gonna get this done one way or another.
Still no lambs from Dotty or Bellwether but bellwether is gradually getting a bigger udder. Dotty at this rate is either pregnant or fat as I can’t really see an udder on her yet and she won’t let me get close enough to check.  Canine aid is still on hiatus so she’ll either have something or she won’t I guess.  Ebony and Ivory are growing and playing and loving life, they have a terrible nap spot though.  They love to nap in the feed bunk and nap time seems to coincide with dinner time so I either have to wake them and move them or they get buried under the hay.  In the next couple weeks I’m going to be putting up more fencing to shrink the sheep corral down in size.  Without being confined to one spot they have decimated all vegetation in their area and graze it before it can get started again.  I plan to do a 60x60 drylot pen and then build a second 60x60 pen to put the ram or possibly weanlings.  Spring is a busy time of year but hey it keeps us out of trouble


----------



## Bruce (Apr 15, 2020)

Can you sell excess eggs or does everyone in the area that eats eggs already have hens? Hopefully all these people who suddenly want laying hens understand that by the time their hens start to lay this whole mess will be over and there will be plenty of eggs in the stores. 

I feel badly for all those chicks. I'm sure most people will buy the trashy little prebuilt coops "big enough for X chickens" but really not big enough for half the claimed number.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 17, 2020)

Remember when everyone ran out and bought up all the flour?  Now there is no pancake mix or Bisquik but plenty of flour!  I guess everyone that stocked up on flour realized how much effort it takes to make a loaf of bread.  Years ago, baking day took ALL day because you had to male lots of loaves of bread to last all week.  Thus the advent of French Toast (fried bread), milk toast and egg, and bread pudding at the end of the week to use up the stale bread!  LOL  Still not much toilet paper but we are being thrifty and I still have those old magazines just in case!

I haven't been to Lowes yet to look at the vegetables to see if they are all gone.  If they are we can blame Blumberg - after all he told everyone you just have to dig a hole and put in a seed.  Anyone can be a farmer!  I think he should have to live o what he grows and then tell us how hard it really is.  LOL

How is the lambing going?


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 17, 2020)

OK, looked at the Burpees catalog online and everything I wanted was sold out, including the Pea and Ben inoculant. Wanted the Romano old style pole bean - Burpees doesn't have it anymore had to try Victory Seeds.  Sold out again.  Not sure if it is the virus or not since when I used to raise a huge garden (at the other house where the soil was wonderful) I used to mail in my order in January.  They do have some tomato plants at Lowes so might go pick up a few.  Can't trust DS1 since his choice is anything that is not brown and shriveled.  LOL


----------



## Mike CHS (Apr 17, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> OK, looked at the Burpees catalog online and everything I wanted was sold out, including the Pea and Ben inoculant. Wanted the Romano old style pole bean



I just looked at several that I buy from and the only one I'm seeing Romano beans is Morgan County seeds but they only have the bush bean.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 18, 2020)

I did find Roma bush beans, but I really want the yield from pole beans since I have to terrace garden.  I did find was pole bens (sold out of course) but Burpees had a spot at each variety that you fill in your email address and they notify you when they are back in stock.  I had decided not to plant veggies this year since we are normally gone during most of the summer and miss the harvest.  FDIL will pick and water but I roses.  Missed the bare root season for them though.  Now we will not be taking any trips until September and have to be back for DS2's wedding October 10 early enough to get wedding stuff done.  This would be the year to plant a garden so naturally I cant get the seeds!  

At the old house I raised the old Romano pole beans on a trellis built above the garden fence.  They produced so well I canned enough to feed the family over the winter.  Great flavor.  Very successful until one day I decided that I would raise the trellis higher to get more yield.    I didn't consider the fact that I was building it higher *from on top of a ladder *until I went to pick the top vines that summer!    That winter I removed the top extension.   I don't have room for bush beans so need pole beans. I'm considering planting Navajo style this year. A hill with several corn, squash, and pole beans in each. the beans climb the corn stalks, the squash shade the ground keeping in moisture.  I don't know if it will work but I thought it would be fun to try.  

DH is building more planters, as well as some raised beds where the tree fell down on the house.  However, at the rate he is going, they might not be finished until next year, or . . . ?   Oh well, I can plant pretty annuals in them when we sell.

Still hopeful!  And I will finally get the retaining wall blocks off the sheep pen.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 20, 2020)

Lambing is at a standstill.  They look pregnant and bellwether is still bagging up, Dotty has no bag but she’s also a first timer so who knows.  I’ll just keep saying any day now and hope and I’ll buy a marking harness for next year.  Make sure the deed is being done.
We have plenty of flour in our food storage, at least 3 5 gallon buckets full and several more of grain that can be ground to flour if we truly get desperate.  We did add a fun new thing to the kitchen though.  A neighbor offered us some sourdough starter that’s 104 years old and we said sure.  We made some awesome sour dough biscuits with it last night and decided that starter is definitely staying in the family and name her Ida.






my wife liked the biscuits so much she told me to throw away my old recipe.  It’s been raining all weekend so not much got done, and today I’ll be lucky if I Can make enough time to go get hay.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 20, 2020)

I'll swap you a pint jar of wild plum jam for a start of the sourdough. Wild plum jam on homemade biscuits are darn good! Oh, throw in the recipe for the biscuits too! LOL 

I did score 2 bags of flour this morning and I also have buckets of wheat and a grain mill, but that is for just because or desperate times, LOL


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 20, 2020)

I used to have a recipe for "friendship bread" that required a starter.  It was wonderful  I finally got the recipe for the starter too.  It's not starter, but you can add chopped apples, raisins, nuts, spices etc.  I baked up everything  including the starter when I moved and haven't made it since.  

We should figure out a swapping run - on our next trip to Texas we have to go first to Washington state.  Then we can swing through Utah to see our sheep friend there, stop at High Desert Cowboy for some sourdough starter for Bay.  I'll drop off a deposit of apricot jam, continue on and deliver the starter to Bay.  Then on the way home we will deliver her trade of Wild Plum Jam to HDC.  
We love seeing new parts of the country so anyone else out there with trade goods?  LOL


----------



## Bruce (Apr 20, 2020)

You do know that there is a more direct path to TX from So. Cal than going through WA right?


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 20, 2020)

Yes, but we have MJ's place rented.  Remember me writing about the little 4 acre place with a completely remodeled house, 2 barns, extra outbuildings and a wonderful well?  The one we wanted to retire to with the sheep until we  found out that the city of Yelm had incorporated it and you could only keep 3 chickens?  If we travel via Washington either going or returning a lot or our trip is deductible on our tax return.  Since we have a rental in Texas too, the other half is also deductible.  We have to route our trips carefully and not necessarily by the most direct route.


----------



## thistlebloom (Apr 20, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> We love seeing new parts of the country so anyone else out there with trade goods? LOL



I'm sure I can think of something, haha! 
I'm not far from I90 which you can take across WA, through ID, then hit I15 to go south to get to HDC.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 21, 2020)

Some people run guns, others are drug mules, and we have @Ridgetop to run goodies all over! 
I’m actually going to try and dry some starter out and see if it can be restarted.  My mom says it works and is asking me to send her some so if it works and makes it to south East Oklahoma  I bet it can go anywhere.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 21, 2020)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Some people run guns, others are drug mules, and we have @Ridgetop to run goodies all over!
> I’m actually going to try and dry some starter out and see if it can be restarted.  My mom says it works and is asking me to send her some so if it works and makes it to south East Oklahoma  I bet it can go anywhere.


Maybe we can ship by Pony Express!


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 22, 2020)

Sounds like a fun trip across country.  Since HDC is in Utah, we can go back to Capitol Reef, and maybe get in some other Parks in Utah as well as visiting our sheep farmer friend in Axtell.  We loved Capitol Reef - we picked some of the apples and they were the best I have had.  Heritage variety, small, crunchy and sweet!  Self pick, self weigh, self pay in a box, $1/lb.   Beaautiful park.  Our friend's great grandparents farmed in Capitol Reef before it became a National Park!


----------



## Bruce (Apr 23, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> Our friend's great grandparents farmed in Capitol Reef before it became a National Park!


I've been there, when it was a park (2003 to be exact). What the heck were they farming, stone and dust???



High Desert Cowboy said:


> I’m actually going to try and dry some starter out and see if it can be restarted. My mom says it works and is asking me to send her some so if it works and makes it to south East Oklahoma I bet it can go anywhere.


It does work. I got mine from Ron Ott on BYC. I don't know what process he uses to dry it but I bet Google can give you some good ideas on the process. 

I've got plenty of eggs to barter for the travelling BYH "store"  My sister offered me lettuce and artichokes for eggs but it is a LONG way from Vermont to So. Cal.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 23, 2020)

LOL.

The capitol Reef folks planted orchards.  The charm of the place, other than the gorgeous rock formations, river, and views, are the orchards that are still there.  They used the small river to irrigate their fields and orchards.  They still have orchards of several heritage varieties of apples, pears, apricot, and others producing there.  They ripen at different times through the year and only one orchard is open at a time to prevent it being over picked or damaged. The trees are kept in good shape by different orchard specialists paid by the park to prune annually and inspect the trees for pests, and disease.  The park rangers give directions to the orchard and type of fruit that is available at whichever time you are visiting.  You go in and can pick as much as you want.  There are fruit pickers on long handles to use.  You can eat as much as you want in the orchard with no charge, but any fruit you take when you leave you have to pay for.  When you leave the orchard there is a scale to weigh what you have picked.  There is a money box with a slot in top to drop in your money  The fruit costs $1.00 per lb.  It is an honor system.  The income helps pay for the upkeep of the orchards and park.  The variety of apple available at the tie was delicious - sweet and crunchy.  My mouth is already watering thinking about going back to Capitol Reef.  

There were only ever about 20 families living there and farming at any one time.  They used to have to take the fruit by mule wagons out of the tiny valley through steep passes to the markets.  Absolutely fascinating place and history.
In spite of the hard life, I can see why the families loved living there.

This time we will make sure the gas tank is full though!  No stations for 150 miles and the lack of stations was not posted anywhere!  DH was starting to sweat when we finally reached the only station and coasted in on fumes.   We were pulling a trailer and there was nowhere to turn around either.


----------



## Bruce (Apr 24, 2020)

Well we sure missed THAT area of the park! I had no idea. We were only there an hour or so. Had gone through Zion the day prior, stayed at the hotel just outside Bryce that night. Did a drive down the Bryce "peninsula" then through Capitol Reef to wherever we stayed that night. This was JUST after Labor Day and it wasn't at all busy with the tourists and their kids back at work and school. I can't imagine how crowded it must be during the summer.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 25, 2020)

A park where you can pick fruit? how fabulous.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 25, 2020)

It is a small park with only one main road going through it so it is easy to miss the turnoffs to other areas.  We probably would have bypassed it or driven straight through from Colorado on our way to visit Travis, but he was out of town delivering a load of wethers so we had a layover of a day.  He told us about the park and the fruit picking so we detoured through there.  We had to ask at the main information ranger station where  the orchard was. They gave us a map and told us where to go to the orchard that was open, as well as some other interesting sites.  

It is a great park and probably somewhat overlooked by tourists visiting the major parks.  Beautiful rock formations on the way in and out as well as in the park itself, lie a lot of Utah.  The creek/river that runs through it is beautiful too and probably the reason those early Mormon pioneers decided to stop there.  The river is a small tributary of the Colorado, which travels down to Lake Powell.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 25, 2020)

I got back from hunting this morning and noticed a new little black lamb following Bellwether around.  As I’m watching her I begin to think that there’s no way she had a single after having triplets last year.  Then I got the distinct impression that I needed to walk through the whole corral, to see if I could find a still born or something.  I walk through and at the very far corner under some sage brush I find a live lamb.  He had zero strength, I tried to stand him up and he’d just flop down all legs going different ways.  And bellwether, being the turd she is won’t let me come near her to try and milk some colostrum out of her so I ended the hiatus and turned Bella loose.  Suddenly Bellwether is a model citizen and stands completely still so I can try to milk some colostrum out of her to save this lamb.  Then he got some colostrum in a bottle because I couldn’t get much out of her.  After about an hour of watching him and waiting to see if he’d be alright he finally stood up and started wandering about.  To better his chances I’ve put Bellwether in the little pen with her babies so I have an easier time keeping an eye on them and hopefully he keeps doing better.  His little sister seems to have plenty of energy.  In all my rush to help I forgot to take pictures of the pair so I’ll have to do that later.


----------



## Mike CHS (Apr 25, 2020)

Good luck with this one.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 26, 2020)

That is why jugs (5 x 5 pens) for one ewe and her lambs are so good for bonding moms and lambs.  Glad you had one.  Hopefully Bellwether will realize that she has two lambs.  We invested in a grafting panel when we bought our new jugs.  It was great for holding the prolapse ewe in place to doctor her up.  In the past I have haltered and tied ewes that were spooky with their lambs.  Sometimes the teat plug needs help to come out, or a new mom things the lamb is taking unwanted liberties!  Good thing for Bella!


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 26, 2020)

By the way, did you get anything on the hunting trip?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 26, 2020)

So the little lamb looks a lot better today.  He still makes me super nervous but I get that way with any little guys that struggle.  My wife calls him skunk.



I am glad I’ve kept the small pen, it started as a training tool for Bella to learn to give some space and it’s worked great for corralling the ewes up for shearing or separating. And yes @Ridgetop it was a very successful morning.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 26, 2020)

Has she started feeding him yet?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 26, 2020)

She does stand and feed him. And he has the energy to stand and feed himself which is good.  I just can’t be near to check, if she sees me she panics and won’t hold still. She’s a range ewe through and through.  She doesn’t have any desire to be friendly and so we’ll accept that fact.  And she cannot be led, if you grab her she flops down so you just have to drag her.  Great for shearing, and that’s about it.  Speaking of I’m looking at buying a new set of electric clippers, maybe premiers 4000s?  Seems to be the best for a reasonable price


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Apr 26, 2020)

Glad the little one made it....may have to name him Pepe...as in Pepe La Pue..... 🤣


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 26, 2020)

Do you have one of the large Oster horse clippers?  If you do, and it is working well (especially if it is one of the older models since they are made of metal and are heavy duty) you can buy an Oster sheep head for the clipper.  It is about $100.00 which will be much cheaper than buying a complete new shears.  You need the sheep head since the regular shear head for trimming cattle, horses, and goats will not have the power to cut through the fleece.  Fleece is full of lanolin grease which causes the blades to have to work about 3 times as hard on fleece as hair.  Dirt and dust get down in the wool ad stick to it because of the grease.  Shearing our show lambs, we used to shampoo them with dish soap since it would cut the grease.  With full grown ewes you won't be able to do that.  

If you don't have an Oster type horse shears, or just want to buy a new shears, the Premier reviews are good.  Be sure to order it just before you shear so that if it doesn't work as it should there will be no problem returning it.  You don't want to order it and have it sit around for a while before you use it only to find that you had it so long it can't be returned.  

Be sure to order *at least *2 pairs each of blades and cutters since dirty fleece dulls the blades fast.   Make sure they are interchangeable with most other brands too.  Some clippers only use their own blades which means you can't use them in other makes of clippers.  If your clipper goes out you are out the blades too.  Both the blade and cutter will need sharpening pretty much after about 2-5 sheep depending on how dirty the wool is.  I am talking about the large tooth blades that are used for taking off the fleece not the smaller finer toothed blades that are used to give a smooth show ring clip.  You won't need those.   Using Kool Lube on the blades to lubricate them and using Blade Wash when they get sticky helps too,  I pour the blade wash in a bowl ad when the blades get sticky while shearing I run the clipper while submerging the blades in the blade wash.  Submerge only the blades!

I have heard good and bad reviews on some of the newer clipper brands.  The Premier clipper sounds good in the reviews, better if you use their new ceramic cutter.  Premier is a company with a good reputation too.  The reviews were from people using them on donkeys mohair goats, llamas, etc. so call Premier and talk to them before ordering to make sure that you are getting the actual sheep head.  If you like the ceramic cutters, I might go ahead and order a couple.  They sell Heiniger blades for the cutter so it should fit our Heiniger.  According to the reviews they don't dull as fast.  I wonder if they would break if you dropped the clipper or it got kicked.  Also, I saw in their catalog under accessories they offer sharpening as well.  As soon as you finish shearing for the year, it is a good idea to immediately have the blades sharpened so they are ready for the next time. 

Since you are going to be investing in some nice Polypays, you would probably enjoy having an electric clipper for shearing, instead of having to use the hand shears.  Hand shears are quaint and picturesque, but when doing more than one sheep, nothing beats a good pair of electric shears.  Good tools lighten the workload.  

We have a set of Heiniger clippers, and a set of Andis clippers for sheep.  We have dozens of blades in all sizes. Some of them are for sheep and some of them are for goats.  Once DS2 and DS3 had about 50 goats each to shave for the Fairs, the large clippers went faster for bodies while the smaller clippers were used for faces, legs, and udders.  We had multiple small clippers and multiple blades for each since after a while the shears get too hot to hold.   The boys would trade off clippers letting one set cool off while they used another.  Good times!   Lots of fun!  

*Let us know how you like the Premier clippers.  Lots of people on here would like asset of good electric clippers.  They are too pricey to make a mistake in the purchase.  You can test these for us!  LOL*


----------



## Bruce (Apr 27, 2020)

I have the Premier 1 4000S. I can't get through 1 side of 1 alpaca before the shears stop cutting. I've watched dozens of alpaca shearing videos. I've tried making sure I wasn't doing second cuts, I oiled more, I oiled less, took the head apart many times to get all fiber bits out and nothing seems to work. I have 2 thoughts - either I really suck at this or the boys are just so dirty the blade dulls almost immediately. The do spend a fair bit of time rolling around in the dirt pit they made.

The company deserves its good reputation. I called them, got hints, sent the unit back for them to check out to make sure everything was right. Not only did they check out the machine and pay shipping both ways, they sharpened both the camelid and regular blade/comb sets - free. The only things I paid for were the oil and hand shears I ordered.

If the shearing guy comes around this spring I'm going to watch closely, ask questions and maybe he'll try with my shears. I don't know when he might show up or when you want to shear but if it is determined that these boys can't be sheared with this machine and you are still pre shearing/pre-purchase, I'll send them to you if you pay shipping.


----------



## purplequeenvt (Apr 27, 2020)

Bruce said:


> I have the Premier 1 4000S. I can't get through 1 side of 1 alpaca before the shears stop cutting. I've watched dozens of alpaca shearing videos. I've tried making sure I wasn't doing second cuts, I oiled more, I oiled less, took the head apart many times to get all fiber bits out and nothing seems to work. I have 2 thoughts - either I really suck at this or the boys are just so dirty the blade dulls almost immediately. The do spend a fair bit of time rolling around in the dirt pit they made.
> 
> The company deserves its good reputation. I called them, got hints, sent the unit back for them to check out to make sure everything was right. Not only did they check out the machine and pay shipping both ways, they sharpened both the camelid and regular blade/comb sets - free. The only things I paid for were the oil and hand shears I ordered.
> 
> If the shearing guy comes around this spring I'm going to watch closely, ask questions and maybe he'll try with my shears. I don't know when he might show up or when you want to shear but if it is determined that these boys can't be sheared with this machine and you are still pre shearing/pre-purchase, I'll send them to you if you pay shipping.



You need a blower to blow all (or at least some) of the dirt out prior to shearing. That’s what I always did with my llamas back when I had them. Blowing them out makes it a little easier on the blades. 

I generally sheared with handshears.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 28, 2020)

@High Desert Cowboy is the processing plant shutdowns hurting the sows and production at your barn? Do you work there or is it your barn?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 28, 2020)

So far we are still producing as normal.  Finisher pigs from this area go to California, and more wean to finish barns have recently been built which gives us some breathing room.  If California closes down, then I’ll be hurting but for now it is business as usual. So knock on wood, cross your fingers, and say a prayer that California stays good and these other plants open back up quickly.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 28, 2020)

Here is more information on shears.  
*Bruce:* Do you use a ceramic cutter? Most of the poor reviews on the Premier 4000 clipper were about llama and alpaca shearing. Switching to the ceramic cutter seemed to do the trick for them, as well as helped solve the problem of blades dulling too fast.

However, Llama and alpaca wool is completely different from sheep wool. It helps to know some stuff about differences in wool and clippers. Here is some information if anyone is looking to buy a large set of sheep shears.

For years Lister topped the list in sheep shearing tools. Both in the way they worked and in the price. Lister clippers when they first came out (30 years ago) were priced in the $1000.00-2000.00 + range, compared to the next highest priced brand at about $200.00. They were very lightweight, ran cool, and using them was compared to cutting through butter with a hot knife. The first Listers use a blade that was not interchangeable with any other brand, so you were in the hook for a lot more than the price of the clipper itself by the time you bought all the necessary blades. Remember, since blades dull so quickly, you always have to have at least 2-3 sharpened extra sets available while shearing. They were mostly owned by commercial shearers or wealthy showmen with whom showing sheep was a religion. Now they have come down considerably in price, and there are a lot of other comparable clippers in the market. At that time Oster was still the go-to clipper, being reliable and reasonably priced. The brand had been around for a long time so most cattle or horse showmen had one. The benefit to the Oster was if you already had one you could buy a sheep head and some sheep shearing blades and you were in business. Most of the 4-H kids with a single lamb to slick shear for Fair hired someone to put a show clip on their washed lambs. About the time the Lister was making its expensive appearance on the scene 2 other shears showed up. Heinigger was a German company with an excellent reputation and quality. They were more money than Oster, but lighter weight which is a factor when shearing. Shearing with a 5 lb. shears as opposed to a 7 or 8 lb. shears makes a big difference when shearing a flock. The next clipper was the Andis. This clipper was even lighter due to the plastic components. It was already a well-known brand in goat circles for its small clippers with interchangeable blades in different sizes.

There are newer clippers on the market now, some of them around $100.00. I would be careful of those less known cheaper ones, particularly the ones made in China. They are not very good, don’t hold the edge, and go bad quickly. Always read all the reviews about these clippers on different websites. Since these days most people buy on line instead at a sheep show where you can handle the tool and ask questions, getting as much information from other people is key.

*First,* what allows sheep wool to be spun are the microscopic barbs on the individual wool strands. The finer the micron of the wool as in the fine wool breeds, i.e. Merino and Rambouillet, the smaller the barbs. The coarser the wool strands, the easier the spinning since the larger barbs catch easier. Our Dorset wool was easy to spin, that type of wool is usually used for outer or more durable clothing like sweaters, socks, etc. Fine wool is used in items that would touch the skin since they can be spun into thinner wool strands. Fine wool is a bit harder to spin into yarn.

*Second*, sheep fleece is also full of lanolin. This is why stuff sticks in the wool, requiring the fleece to be “skirted” or picked over before washing and processing it into spinning wool batts. Fine wool breeders who raise their sheep for the niche market of hand spinning wool often keep their sheep in canvas coats if they don’t have lush grassy pastures. The lightweight cotton or canvass coats or blankets keep burrs, straw, etc. out of the wool. The lanolin filled wool of sheep causes more friction on the blades while shearing, collects dirt and adheres it to the fibers causing dulling of blades. Use of Kool Lube and blade wash while shearing can help with those problems. An interesting tidbit – sheep people call the unwashed fleece “in the grease”. A fleece weighs more before washing and processing because of the lanolin in the fleece. There are some people who prefer to spin fleece ‘in the grease’, however most home spinners prefer to use washed wool.

*Third,* llama and alpacas have different wool than sheep, Their wool has *no* barbs. Spinners have trouble spinning llama or alpaca hair alone because there are no barbs to catch and hold to each other during the process. Most spinners blend their llama and alpaca wool with sheep wool. The addition of the sheep wool provides the necessary barbs on the strands to enable the wool to twist into yarn.

This is the reason why there are different blades (camelid for llamas, alpacas, camelid species) as opposed to shearing blades that have wide ‘fingers” to lift the fleece up away from the body. Other types of blades are “finishing blades” used to cut a short coat of lamb wool almost to the skin for the show ring.

The blades except some of the large shearing blades are interchangeable on most of the heads so they can be used on other species. *MOST IMPORTANT *is the type of head you have on your clipper. Unless you have a sheep head, the head will not have enough power to cut through the lanolin rich wool of sheep no matter what blade you use. A heavy duty shearing clipper with a cattle head will not do the job even though it looks impressively powerful.

The pork packing plant I heard had closed was owned by a Chinese company here in America on the east coast or the Midwest.


----------



## Bruce (Apr 28, 2020)

purplequeenvt said:


> You need a blower to blow all (or at least some) of the dirt out prior to shearing. That’s what I always did with my llamas back when I had them. Blowing them out makes it a little easier on the blades.
> 
> I generally sheared with handshears.


Hmmm, I can only imagine how they would freak out with the compressor running and a high wind blowing on them. But it might be worth a shot with Teddy since he is more calm. 



Ridgetop said:


> *Bruce:* Do you use a ceramic cutter? Most of the poor reviews on the Premier 4000 clipper were about llama and alpaca shearing. Switching to the ceramic cutter seemed to do the trick for them, as well as helped solve the problem of blades dulling too fast.


No I have the metal cutters.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 28, 2020)

You might want to try the ceramic cutters before discarding your shears.  The angle at which you hold the blades is also important.  If you hold it at too steep an angle the blades get tangled and don't cut properly.  You have to hold the shears with the blades horizontal to the skin.  Using your other hand to pull the skin taut as you shear helps too.  What do the blades sound like when the cutter is running?  They should sound smooth with no clicking.  

Definitely have your shearer try your Premier shears when he comes.  Then have  him watch you shear for a bit as you get the hang of it.  Most problems shearing are due to operator error putting on the blades, dull blades, angle of shearing, dirty wool, lack of Kool Lube on the blades to cool them down, or all the previous.  I don't put the blades on our clippers.  I have DS1 do it,  In Jr. Hi and Hi school he used to do shearing demonstrations to grade schools and the public at Farm Days.  He was very good - a nice smooth job, never nicked a ewe, and the fleece came off in one piece!  LOL


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 28, 2020)

I purchased the 4000S with metal blades and I bought a separate ceramic blade and 13 tooth comb to try as well.  I’ll definitely post about it.    Skunk started looking bad again yesterday, and was pretty lethargic today so he got a bottle and seemed to look better.  He’ll just have to go to a bottle I suppose.  My friend who took the triplet last year has another boy who asked if I had another bottle lamb this year.  That lamb did so well after they tube fed it for three days and kept it by the stove I figured it’d be as good a place as any for the little guy.  And he’s not near that gone.  He nurses a bottle just fine and seems plenty energetic.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 29, 2020)

That sounds like a plan.  Bummer lambs are a pain in the neck to busy shepherds.  Sounds like you made a good decision.  I will be watching to see how you like your shears.  I am always watching for anything that would be easier for me.  The Heiniggers are great, but get heavy after a couple sheep.  This is why many of my Dorpers have mushroom tops.  I persuade myself that it shades their skin so they don't get sunburn.  I am just too lazy to shear their backs.  I do have a large brush off a road sweeper that I would ike to get mounted on a post so the sheep can scratch and rub off their shedding fleece.  It is currently laying in the night g=fold but I never see them go near it.  By them gifts, but do they appreciate them?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 11, 2020)

So updates....The premier shears came, but I haven’t really had a lot of time to test them out, we’re hoping tomorrow will be a good time.  I found out the bottle lamb skunk didn’t make it.  He just wouldn’t drink, it would take forever for him to finish a bottle because he just wasn’t interested in eating. Total opposite of his sister, who is a tenacious eater and will spend forever suckling to get some food in her.  Bellwether will not stand still for her and on a couple of occasions has turned around to head butt her own lamb for nursing on her.  We have to hold her still a couple times during the day so the poor little thing can get enough to eat.  I plan on weaning this poor little thing ASAP so that I can send bellwether to the Navajos, they like these older mutton ewes.  They’re separated to the smaller pen which is a true blessing because it’s been easier to work the dogs.  Bellwether would never flock up and made things difficult, and once I’d put Bella on her she’d stop and not go anywhere. Dotty stil looks huge but no babies, if she doesn’t change something soon I’m going to have to change plans.  I’ve been avoiding stressing everyone too much because I don’t know with her but it’s getting hot and things need to be done.  At this rate I’ll end up with 3 babies and two useless ewes so I probably won’t get much as far as selling them.  The plan may devolve into keeping Ivory for next year so that I can at least have something to breed, I probably won’t earn enough this year to buy more ewes.  But putting lambs on the ground next year can help buy for the following year, so my plans aren’t derailed, just slowed down a little.
I did finally get a break this weekend and spent Friday and Saturday branding which is a blast when you get the right crew.  Gathering cows in the corrals and dragging calves to the fire is a great time and always worth some laughs.  Someone brought a metal plate to heat up with the the irons so that we could cook up some Rocky Mountain Oysters as we worked and it was hilarious watching my boy try one for the first time.  He took one bite and spit it out then turned a little green when I ate a couple.  I also got vaccinated with bovi-shield and a copper and selenium booster so I’m set!  Overall a great time and a good escape.


----------



## Ridgetop (May 11, 2020)

Most of us have been vaccinated against livestock diseases at one time or another.  lol  Sounds like you had a great time.  It is funny how we can do stuff that is excruciating work and have such a good time doing it with the right bunch of friends.  

It's too bad that you had such a disappointing lambing season.  However, your plans to keep one or 2 of your homebred lambs this year is a good ne  You can keep your ram, or one of the ram lambs another year if you want and breed them.  Breeding sister brother, father daughter will be ok if it is a terminal cross for your freezer.  That will give you a little time to redo your pens and shelters for when you get your Polypays.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 13, 2020)

I finally got to test my new shears and I’ll put my review elsewhere.  But it was quite the experience.  It started off a little frustrating I have Bellwether in the small pen where I needed to put the rest of my sheep so that we could get to shearing.  And of course I made the gates so that they work as an alley which works great if there isn’t already sheep in both pens.  I told my son to stand in the way so that Bellwether wouldn’t escape and he stood there with his hands in his pockets figuring that his presence would be enough.  Nope!  Bellwether blows by him and she’s off to the races.  So I go get Bella and tell her to get after it and she stops Bellwether but a Bellwether plays her dumb game where she just stands there and won’t move anywhere.  And you can’t drag her that far so I had to pick her up in my arms and carry her all the way back to the corrals.  Not happy.  Then I had Bella bring the rest of the sheep to the small corral and we got em all done.  For my first time with these shears it’s not awful but I definitely need a lot more practice.  


Here’s the twins ebony and ivory they’re doing great



Gus Gus all sheared.  You can see Dotty in the background.  I think she Still looks big and is carrying low on the right side.  Maybe, maybe not I dunno anymore.  I’ll just accept whatever at this rate.  Now to rest from my labors.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (May 13, 2020)

Not bad....that is something that does take practice and each time something is learned for the next time.....ya sure get "kudos" for getting a "start" and it won't be long and ya will be a pro....


----------



## Baymule (May 14, 2020)

Branding time is always hard work, but fun in a tough way. I used the branding fire after the branding was done to burn my cast iron skillets. I just buried them in the coals and got them out the next day. All the crusty crud was burned off, they were gray and new again. Then I seasoned them and started over building the black crunchy crud on them again. LOL 

It sucks when the darn ewes don't adhere to your plans, what makes them think they can veer off on their own and be lousy mothers, anyway? Navaho dinner, here they come! 

I think you did a good shearing job. @Ridgetop brought her shears last summer and gave me lessons. We had a great time and I got sore ribs from getting kicked by a ewe that did not go along with our diabolical plans.


----------



## Ridgetop (May 14, 2020)

They look excellent to me with a new clippers and no experience.  No giant bleeding wounds, no missing parts - on the sheep at least.  LOL  You did a nice job.

Don't worry about cleaning off the wool around the faces and legs.  The professionals don't bother with that either.  You only bother to slick all that away for the show ring or a special show sale.  Sorry, I should have told you to leave the wool on Bellweather if you were going to sell her.  If she is aready sold to the Navajos it wont matter.  I never bother to shear anything I am taking to auction.  No point, and the price is often better if they are in wool. 

How did you like the clippers?  Dogs are much better workers than unwilling children!  

Our 2nd grandson doesn't like to touch the sheep, so he will try to restrain a lamb with just 2 fingers of one hand! You can imagine the language heard in the barn!  His older brother and younger sister will gladly tackle the lambs and get dragged through the manure though, so 2 out of 3 isn't bad.  He is also  good worker as long s it doesn't involve animals.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 15, 2020)

The hiatus is over and Bella can get back to training!  And she loves it!  With her wool all gone it’s easier to see Hearts condition and it would appear the twins are taking a lot out of her so I’ve started to give her a little something on the side to help her start regaining her condition for next year.  I may have bellwether sold so we’ll see what happens there.  They want her lamb as well so we’ll see how it all plays out


----------



## Ridgetop (May 16, 2020)

Selling her lamb with her is probably a good thing, since often lambs take after their parents in temperament.  Heart does look a bit thin, has she been wormed?  Once lambs are born, the worm load, if any, can really bloom.  You might try worming with Privermectin - a cheaper version of Ivermectin.  It takes a lot, but if it will hel her.  Then a ltte grain with her hay to help her regain some fat. suck the very life out of the ewes.  She looks like she is giving them everything she has so that is good mothering.  I use rolled barleycorn, it is cheap and the corn can helo ut on the weight.  It it still doesn't do the job, there are some commercial lamb grow feeds that can be fed to mom and lambs together.  Too high a protein content can result in thin looking ewes though so make sure it is not too high in protein and not high enough in carbs and fats.  

When we had our dairy herd, we bought our hay by the field.  First cut was all under contract to the dairies, but we got second cut which was just as good.  We fed it to our horses too, but couldn't figure out why they looked like bags of bones!   They were realy.  Worming did nothing, finally someone suggested we put them on grade 2 hay and BOOM!  They put on condition again!  Too much protein was just like putting athletes on a high protein-low fat diet.  The weight rolled off!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 25, 2020)

So updates for around here.  @Ridgetop Heart is so named because she is a sweet heart and I’ve been able to pull her aside every day and give her some extra protein feed out of a bucket to help her start putting the weight back on and everyone is getting wormed in a few days, I’m still waiting for it to get here.  Looking at her babies I think She’s just a milking machine.  
I finally got something of a garden in, the next step is keeping it all alive my cucumber plants look pretty sad but my raspberries and strawberry plants look great.  We also finally had our chicks arrive and I’ll need to post some pics.  Maybe someone can help me with identification.  We have 8 Rhode Island reds,4 barred rocks, then my wife had fun and there’s one austrolorpe, one golden polish, one buff laced polish that I’ve named Q-tip, and the hatchery threw in a gift surprise chick of unknown type or gender which I assume means a rooster from a batch of chickens nobody wanted.  Maybe I’ll be wrong but I couldnt even tell you what kind it is.  It took some detective work to figure out which was the austrolorpe because they’re very similar to the barred rocks.  
Dotty still looks big, and even bigger last night but she’s probably just teasing me.  I haven’t heard back from that potential buyer for bellwether but maybe I’ll just donate her.  Currently in Utah they’re buying up seed and sheep to donate to the Navajo reservation as they’re getting hit pretty hard with this coronavirus.


----------



## Baymule (May 25, 2020)

Donating bellwether to the Navajo reservation would be a generous thing to do. Their predicament even made national news.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 27, 2020)

Chicks! I am 90% certain that my mystery surprise chick is a white polish, the little top knot has become more pronounced. 
Dotty keeps getting bigger, Heart is still getting treated to her side protein and I’ve also been giving some to bellwether.  For some reason it won’t let me post a picture of Dotty so I’ll try again later.  But she’s wide.


----------



## Baymule (May 27, 2020)

A white Polish, how fun! Baby chicks are always so cute!


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 1, 2020)

I agree that donating Bellweather to the Navajo Nation would be a good thing.  Get a tax receipt from the Tribal Council to deduct her value from your taxes.  The Navajo will have a use for her - either as meat or to produce for their flocks.  Contact the local Tribal Council office and they will let you know how to go about donating her.  They probably will have someone that needs a ewe, or a meat supply.

Good idea.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jul 10, 2020)

Life is all about changes, and those dang changes really throw a wrench in your plans and derail everything for a while.  I was comfortable in my beautiful area working on finishing my basement and building a new chicken coop and maybe start a new fencing project when I get a call asking if I was possibly interested in applying for a new job up at the Utah/Idaho border.  With everything going on with coronavirus that’s been a long drawn out process but in the end they offered me the job with a huge raise and we’d be a few minutes from my in-laws.  So we’re in the process of downsizing as we prepare to move by the first of August.  Sold the chicks and some sheep and are getting rid of the mountain of junk we’ve somehow accumulated over the last few years.  So just an update to say I’m alive, we’re healthy, and hopefully we can find a house with acreage quick.


----------



## thistlebloom (Jul 10, 2020)

Wow. Sounds like a good move for you though. Nice to be close to family.
(Usually.) Hope you find a good workable property, it will be an adventure!


----------



## Ridgetop (Jul 10, 2020)

All I have to say is *MORE WATER!!!!!    CONGRATULATIONS!!* * So happy for you.  *If you need more sheep, call Travis Blackburn in Axtell UT which is mid state.  He has good White Dorpers - both commercials and registered.  He also trucks his lambs to Texas once a month so you might be able to get yours on his truck.  He also knows many of the sheep producers in Utah.

You should be able to find reasonably priced acreage up there with farm buildings on site.  Make sure you have water right for water lines and irrigation.  So excited for you and your family!!!


----------



## Baymule (Jul 10, 2020)

WHOOP!!! MOVING!!! This is a great move for you and family. Off on an adventure for sure!


----------



## Bruce (Jul 11, 2020)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> So we’re in the process of downsizing as we prepare to move by the first of August.


Wow, talk about a whirlwind! Try to keep your sanity for the next few weeks.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jul 15, 2020)

Congratulations!  I hope your move can go smoothly and that you can find a place in the country where you can continue to raise all of the animals you want.


----------



## Baymule (Jul 31, 2020)

Where are you? Moved yet? Have you found a place with acreage?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 10, 2020)

I’m alive!  Super busy but alive.  We unfortunately have not found a place to live yet, the housing market is a sellers market with limited choices.  Found the perfect place, made an offer 11,000 over asking price, and beat out by some Californians who offered $30,000 over all in cash!  Who’s got that kind of money?  Our realtor says that’s become a common theme, people are leaving California and buying up these homes with property and it’s thrown the market on its ear.  Strange times.  So we’re still with my in-laws and fortunately they have some land so I have somewhere for the horses and the sheep.  The neighbor had actually had my sheep grazing his property for him so it’s been nicer on the feed bill.  Even nicer is I have an old friend up here who brokers hay to the Chinese.  He gets bales that are rejected for not quite being up to their standards but are perfectly fine for feeding horses and sheep, so I have an in for free hay.  
The only downside is the situation hasn’t made it the easiest for separating Gus Gus from the ewes so it’ll be a surprise as to when lambs will start hitting the ground.  Not ideal but beggars can’t be choosers and at least I still get to keep my sheep.  Bella appreciates it too, it’s been a little easier to train with her and she’s coming along nicely.  Of course now my sheep are pretty tame and they practically knock me over when we do drills wearing them to me.  I now end up in the middle.  A couple more weeks and we’ll start working on driving.  At the moment we’re working on holding the bunch in the corner.  Works while I’m in the corner but if I step out to do something Bella decides everyone needs to come with.  Work in progress.  So that’s my update hope all has been well for everyone else.


----------



## Baymule (Sep 11, 2020)

So glad to hear from you! It sucks that prices are going up like that. You'd better find something NOW. There are thousands affected by the fires and this will probably be the last straw for many of them. Guess where they will move to? Lots of people moving to Texas too, prices are stupid. Hurry up and find a place before the swarm hits.


----------



## thistlebloom (Sep 11, 2020)

Good to hear from you. I hear you on the state of real estate.
Prices up here have rocketed out of all reason too. 
My boys will probably never be able to afford a place of their own. I don't know where all the money comes from. It's craziness.


----------



## Mini Horses (Sep 11, 2020)

Have you been able to see your last home?

Glad you at least had a "place" to stay until you could find another home....with room for animals, a real win!


----------



## Bruce (Sep 11, 2020)

Apparently that is happening everywhere. Lots of people in big cities are finding out they can work remotely and don't have to live in the congestion. And whatever they own there will be worth a lot more than where they want to move so they can overbid others. 

Of course some quantity of them will bring their "this would be perfect if only it had (name your favorite big city amenity)" and want to change things. I wonder how many will complain about the farm smells in their new location and want to legislate the farms' operations.


----------



## thistlebloom (Sep 12, 2020)

If we didn't already live here there's no way we could afford to buy now. Even rundown mobile homes are commanding a kings ransom.


----------



## Bruce (Sep 12, 2020)

And are probably torn down to put up a "permanent" house.


----------



## Baymule (Sep 12, 2020)

Prices per acre have tripled here since we bought our place. Part of that is due to the school district, I think the other part is people moving to Texas from states that have gotten out of control with too many regulations, taxes, and insanely stupid laws.


----------



## Ridgetop (Sep 14, 2020)

I don't know if we can ever afford to move away now with all the people who can work remotely buying properties in the rural areas.  We may have to reconsider where we will go.  Or just move the property line on our acreage, put up an ADU, and love here in liberal hell.     😭


----------



## Mini Horses (Sep 14, 2020)

Baymule said:


> I think the other part is people moving to Texas from states that have gotten out of control with too many regulations, taxes, and insanely stupid laws.



So -- TX has no regulations, taxes and laws...??       Maybe I need to move there, too!




Ridgetop said:


> I don't know if we can ever afford to move away now with all the people who can work remotely buying properties in the rural areas.



So, move now, not later.   Even buy a place & lease it out until.....

Haven't even checked prices/sales in my area.   Real Estate -- always on a roller coaster.   When I moved here, many were selling due to commute time.   Now the work from home craze will take over for a while.   Then, people will "miss" the intown shopping and activity, which means that they are tired of working the land, handling animals!   So it goes...


----------



## thistlebloom (Sep 14, 2020)

I fear all those remote workers buying up rural properties is going to change the quality of rural life for folks who actually use their property to raise animals.


----------



## Mini Horses (Sep 14, 2020)

@thistlebloom  -- yeah,  they'll try to put regs into place limiting "things" -- then LEAVE!!  Oughta be a law to stop some of it.  Of course, there is in the zoning for most rural areas.

One year a rather newly moved in couple -- who had 2 acres of lawn -- complained to powers that be about the neighbor across the street for no "keeping their grass cut".   Zoning came out, looked at the 20 acres and said "lady, that's pasture -- see the animals???"   NO, not required to cut.  There are just things that seem to fall into common sense.

Roosters crow out here!!


----------



## Ridgetop (Sep 14, 2020)

Unfortunately cities creep up and grab nearby rural farmland so they can tax it.  

One previous neighbor had a neighborhood meeting about fly control.  He wanted to have everybody required to hang up fly catchers and spray their properties for control of flies.  DH pointed out that since we back onto 100 acres of open land leading into the Angeles National Forest, that there would still be flies.  The neighbor wanted to know why, and DH had to explain that you couldn't control the flies from the wildlife poop and dead animals in the open wildlands.  Duh! 

We are trying to sell our property in Washington and 1031 into another piece in either TX, or somewhere since TX is becoming infiltrated by liberals and the property taxes will go sky high even with the AG and senior exemptions.  Very sad right now, and worried about the election.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Sep 18, 2020)

We’ll find something, and probably have to overpay to get it but that’s ok.  It’ll all work out in the end.  For now we save money that will be added with our housing fund and improve our ability to get a home.  Sheep are back at the neighbors, he fenced off more of his property and asked us to bring the sheep back over to clean the area up.


----------



## Ridgetop (Sep 19, 2020)

Maybe he will like having them permanently on the property to keep it grazed down.  That would be a good thing for you.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Oct 8, 2020)

@Ridgetop hes told me he’s considering Boer goats, apparently a couple down the road have him sold on them.  He worries sheep might be too much maintenance for him as he has an ailing wife and several other projects.  He haS a mess of apple trees that he makes cider from and runs 50 beehives between his home and some private land up the canyon. But for now he’s more than happy to have them so I won’t complain.
We put in an offer and are waiting to hear back, they needed a few weeks to figure out what their plan is.  They’ve been thinking about building for a while and knew we were looking so they told us to make them an offer and they’ll keep it off the market for now.  It’s not 5 acres, but it’s got a ton to offer.  2.3 acres with water shares, about 1 acre of irrigated Pasture, a huge garden, fruit trees, a huge shop, several shelters for horses and sheep, hay shed, big tack shed, and it’s right across the street from a public riding arena.  The house is old and a little smaller than we hoped but it’s sound and has sufficient for what we need.  We’re really buying it for the out buildings.  So fingers crossed and we’ll see what happens


----------



## Ridgetop (Oct 12, 2020)

With your plans for the family, you can easily add onto the house while the outbuildings, water shares, irrigated pasture and existing garden and orchard space are perfect.  When we relocate, the well, water, pasture and OUTBUILDINGS take precedence.  We know we can renovate a house, but trying to build outbuildings and fencing is hard to do when you have livestock that need attention RIGHT NOW!  And it sounds like everything it is in good condition now which means you can move right in and not have to bring anything back up to usable condition for your animals.  The inside of the  house can be fixed up during bad weather conditions when you can't really work outside.  Since we are approaching winter that sounds perfect  for you.  Nice size acreage too since you and your wife both work.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 12, 2020)

Well we finally got a place.  Not the one we were looking at but it’s a good home on an acre out in the agricultural zone.  We’re grandfathered in with an acre, the city passed a law 60 years ago saying if anyone wanted to build out here they needed 10 acres so we shouldn’t see too much development out here.  We’re actually in the middle of a 20 acre field and the neighbor who owns it had talked about selling a couple acres to the previous occupants so there’s some hope for expansion.  We got moved in on Saturday and in perfect time too because my wife got sick Monday with what turned out to be COVID.  Guess who has it now?  I do not recommend this experience it’s like a wicked cold that gets a little worse every day.  But at least we have our own place to be isolated.  And I can still get my chores done though it really wipes me out.  So I’m alive and will hopefully be able to update with more frequency now that I have a place to call home


----------



## Mini Horses (Dec 12, 2020)

Sorry about the Covid but, good you could touch base and more to come.   Hope all goes good with sickies and everyone gets well fast.   Remember unpacking can wait for well time.


----------



## Ridgetop (Dec 12, 2020)

So sorry to hear that you guys got sick - and with the first vaccine being released on Monday!!!

Hope you get better soon.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 12, 2020)

First the good news and I was getting happy for y'all. Then the bad news of y'all getting Covid and I got sad for y'all. At least you have your own home now to hunker down in and be sick. That Covid is bad, we have lots of friends that have had it. We think it went through our family in February this year, DD and 2 youngest granddaughters were sick , I babysat them, my husband got sick and like to have never gotten over it. Our son had it and was SO sick. And all before Covid was a diagnosis. I feel your pain. My husband went to the doctor, got a shot of antibiotics, a shot of steriods, an albuterol inhaler and a bottle of antibiotics to take. If your doctor will give you a prescription for an inhaler, TAKE IT!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 29, 2020)

So we’re all recovered from Covid and on the mend.  I still have no sense of smell but everything else is a lot better. One down side to our new home is that the hose bib I saw by where my corrals are is connected to the sprinkler line so it doesn’t work during the winter and the only other hose bib is on the east side of the house.  My corrals are on the west.  And it’s not a frost free so it’s frozen solid.  For now I have to carry buckets of water from the basement laundry room to the critters.  I have a guy coming to install a frost free hose bib on the west side of my home ideally in the next week and come spring/summer I will be putting in a heated automatic water trough.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 30, 2020)

So glad that you and family are over the Covid and on the mend. I don't know how long the loss of smell lasts, a neighbor had that same thing, I should ask him how long that lasted. Frozen water, for you, that is an all winter thing? Boo on that! But at least you have your own place, it is yours and you can get things the way you want them. All things come in due time. 

Thanks for checking in and letting us know how you are doing!


----------



## thistlebloom (Dec 30, 2020)

That's a lot of water hauling! I feel your pain.

I don't have a frost free close to the animals either, but I do have a hose bib on the side of the house closest to them. I keep it wrapped in bubble wrap and covered with a custom 😉  plastic shoe box to prevent freezing.
I don't mess with a long hose anymore, and the expensive heated hose I used for a season died an untimely death, so I haul buckets in an Otter sled. I can fit 5 five gallon buckets in it.
Dragging a sled is much preferable to carrying and sloshing water in your boots, lol.
Yeah, there is nothing so wonderful in the winter as a heated trough, it's worth every penny.
I'm happy you have a place of your own now!


----------



## Bruce (Dec 30, 2020)

I think Syringa could be trained to pull the Otter sled 



High Desert Cowboy said:


> I have a guy coming to install a frost free hose bib on the west side of my home


I have one on my house, can't use it in the winter. The water freezes in the pipe. I think the plumbers went cheap with a shorter frost free even though it goes through an overhang before it gets to the foundation wall.


----------



## Ridgetop (Dec 30, 2020)

Glad to hear you are on the mend.  

Instead of a hose bib, can they put  a water line to the corrals, or close to them?  Or, at least when you have the west side hose bib installed, have the plumber put in a T with a stub out connection so you can use a ditchwitch to put a pipe in the ground in the spring to the corrals yourself.   Good father/son bonding time there.  LOL  

When you run the waterline to the corrals, you can also use grey schedule 80 pvc pipe to carry electric lines over there too so you can eventually put in lighting at the corrals for night time feeding (and lambing).  Only rent the ditchwitch once that way.  

Water and electricity will be available at the site if you decide to put up a barn.


----------



## thistlebloom (Dec 30, 2020)

Bruce said:


> I think Syringa could be trained to pull the Otter sled


Sure, then what would I do for exercise?


----------



## Bruce (Dec 31, 2020)

Go to the gym and work out, the way the insurance companies think people SHOULD get exercise. Farm work doesn't fit their model, neither does hauling trees out of the woods.

This, of course, may only be true for the BCBS survey we get annually. Maybe there is an "other" with a text entry box for different insurers.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Dec 31, 2020)

_Happy New Year, Mr. @High Desert Cowboy!_


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Dec 31, 2020)

I’ve been discussing with the plumber the desire to run water out there in the spring so we are running lines accordingly.  The thing is there was a frost free hose bib on the west side once upon a time they just removed it and filled the hole.  But the water line still runs to that spot so it will be pretty easy to slap a T on it.  But with the ground frozen I’m not about to start digging a 4 foot deep trench.  That can wait.  And I will run power with it so I can have a heated automatic waterer.  I actually stopped in the IFA the other day and got a bunch of information on the Behlen sheep waterer and I’m impressed.  I plan to put it on the fence line of the corrals so the horses get one side and the sheep get the other.  
We’ve had some losses and additions to our home since we moved.  Our new neighbor runs a ton of sheep and Kya would not stay home, running off over there every chance she had so we had to either rehome her or she was going to get shot.  We found a lovely young couple who treat her like their child and I get regular picture updates.  We also lost a ewe in an freak accident which was frustrating but there was nothing to be done.  That happened while we were sick with covid.  We still have Bella, she loves to work sheep but she will stay by me when she’s not on a leash or in a dog run.  I did take her in the house when they ran 200 sheep down the road in front of our house.  One can only take so much temptation right?  Being up north we’re closer to way more options for shopping and the wife learned about a fun new-to-her store called petsmart.  And I came home to this one day.



Bella has always been an outside dog and enjoyed the novelty of her own bed in front of the fire and a sweater. Happy New Year all!


----------



## Baymule (Dec 31, 2020)

Bella looks happy!


----------



## Bruce (Jan 4, 2021)

Sorry you had to give Kya up, I'm sure that was difficult. 

I get Dr. Elsey's cat litter at PetSmart, they seem to have the best price on it. The store is 30 miles away so when I'm in that area I buy 3 bags which lasts the 3 cats about 3 months.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 8, 2021)

It was hard to give her up, we’d had her for five years.  But I’d rather see her happy living with someone else rather than always tied up or dead.  
This cold weather really makes it hard to get things done, not just because the ground is hard but because when it’s 17 degrees out I get hit with a bad case of the lazy’s. But I still managed to drag myself outside to knock some posts into the ground so I can start on a hoop house. The biggest draw back of being at my in-laws was that I couldn’t really separate Gus Gus from the ewes so when babies will hit the ground is anyone’s guess. Hopefully the hoop house will give enough shelter to keep babies dry and happy. I also have a silo and a garage I could put them in if it boils down to it. This year we’ll only have the two ewes to lamb. I planned on buying a fourth when I bought the new house but where we didn’t find a place until December it kinda put a stop to that. And the loss of the little ewe puts me down to two. I’ve got my eyes open for replacements but I may not make that decision until spring.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 8, 2021)

A hoop house will provide shelter, bed it in straw and lambs should stay warm and snuggly.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 11, 2021)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> but because when it’s 17 degrees out I get hit with a bad case of the lazy’s.


I know the feeling!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 17, 2021)

Yesterday was a really nice day and I managed to get a bunch done.  Went out with Bella and rounded up the sheep to do some crutching on the ewes and clean up the rams back end.  Where it’s just an open corral I couldn’t hope to get this done without Bella.  She has a ways to go but she is still a great help. 
I also gave myself more work to do. I borrowed my father in law’s little flatbed trailer to haul some things and right after I left his place I noticed my dash was going screwy, the speedometer was all over and my battery was showing low. Figured it had to be something with the trailer so I pulled over to check and the connection was smoking. I panicked and pulled the connection without considering the smoke and burned my hand, turns out the ground on his trailer had completely melted the length of the wire. So I’ll be rewiring his trailer and then probably rewiring the connection on my truck.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 19, 2021)

And rewiring your hand!!!!

While you are fixing it, as a borrower of something should do if things go south, I bet his trailer is more at fault than you are. He's lucky you were using it and not him.

I'm glad Bella is earning her food.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jan 20, 2021)

Well I got the trailer rewired, the left turn signal wire was loose in the connection housing so whether that attributed to the issue or not is unknown.  
I’m starting to get a little nervous about lambs for this year.  My crutching the other day was more of an excuse to cut out the dags and as I handled them all they didn’t really seem like they were gaining any mass and I didn’t notice any udder development. Moving in August meant that Gus Gus has had constant access to these girls since then.  My hope is that where this is his first year on the job he maybe didn’t get the deed accomplished the first go around and I’ll start to see some development in the next couple weeks.  Having moved I have access to more vet clinics that could potentially do a BSE but at this point in the game I feel like the ship has sailed.  They’ll either lamb or they won’t.  If nothing comes of it I can get him tested in the spring and if he’s a dud I got a guarantee from the breeder that he’d replace him if he’s no good.  But you live and learn.  They look pretty cozy in their new hoop shed with that nice bed of straw.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 21, 2021)

I'm sure the move made it hard for you to do the usual "did they get bred" stuff. How often do your ewes cycle?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 5, 2021)

It’s been an incredibly dry winter this year, but today we finally got some much needed snow.  It snowed all morning and I won’t say one word of complaint about it because we need it.  It has drifted into the sheep shelter so that just gives me an idea of the changes I’ll need to make in the future to prevent that.  Sheep are looking good, fingers crossed we’ll see babies in a couple months.  Can’t wait for spring we have so many plans that we can’t start on until the ground thaws a little.  Moving in the winter was a tough one as we have plans but can’t act.  Patience is not my strongest point but I guess I’ll be learning it


----------



## Ridgetop (Feb 6, 2021)

Depending on when they cycled and when GusGus got to them, they can lamb as late as May.  Or with the stress of moving, they might have reabsorbed and then they would recycle very late.  No need to worry, like you said, it either happened or it didn't.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Feb 18, 2021)

My ewe fear stemmed mainly from my experience two years ago, when I didn’t separate my ram from the ewes.  Heart had a stillborn and bellwether had triplets on February 8th that year.  Where we were getting close to that first part of February and nobody even looked pregnant I had my worries.  This week I’ve noticed that Hearts belly is hanging lower and she’s starting to get a little udder development.  All signs point to a pregnant ewe.  Dotty has gotten wider but she may just be fat, this is her last chance year.  Her first year she didn’t breed I figured she was too young, last year I thought maybe she didn’t get sufficient chance.  Three strikes policy for her because I can’t think of any more excuses.
We’ve been having consistent little flurries but they really don’t stay, it pretty much melts in contact with the cement and it’s been at about 35 degrees to melt anything that stays around.  Really weird weather for Cache Valley in February.  But I’ll take any moisture, especially where it’s sticking to the mountains. We are currently at 83% of our snowpack which isn’t awful but could definitely get better.  With several more flurries or storms in the near future we might just be in good shape.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 18, 2021)

I'm real happy for you and your snow. I'd sure send you all of mine if I could!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 26, 2021)

It’s been a while for which I apologize.  Where we haven’t really had loads going on with the animal side of things I haven’t really updated for a while though I have been lurking here and there.  Mostly been working on finishing up the basement in the new house.  But we finally have animal news.  Today Heart lambed triplets!  A little ram lamb and a very large ewe lamb.  I know about those two because I ended up helping a little with the ewe lamb she was so big.  I was home on my dinner break from work so I went back inside to get ready to leave for work again and came back out to a third baby!  My wife is on watching duty to make sure all is well but we’re pretty sure she’s done.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 27, 2021)

Congratulations!


----------



## Baymule (Mar 27, 2021)

Triplets! Congratulations!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 28, 2021)

So the third was a little ewe lamb.  I’ve been keeping an eye on everybody and so far mama seems to be providing enough groceries that no one is going without.  Heart is ravenous though, she eats anything that comes into reach.  She never tried to eat my pants before but if it look edible she’s all about it.  I’ve had her separated and giving her extra to keep her in good condition.


----------



## Mini Horses (Mar 28, 2021)

It takes a LOT to produce milk!!!

I watch mom's condition almost more than the kids after day two.


----------



## Baymule (Mar 29, 2021)

I have a ewe that puts it all in the milk bag. She always gets thin, so I supplement her by hand. She has learned her name, Ewenique, and runs to the fence for her treats. Try giving Heart a handful of black oil sunflower seeds on top of her feed.


----------



## Ridgetop (Mar 29, 2021)

Congratulations!!!  2 for the flock and 1 for the pot!  Good all around!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Mar 29, 2021)

Heart is already pretty tame.  She was raised as a bottle baby so getting her to walk up to me for a little extra is really not difficult.  I was surprised though I went out with a bottle to try and get the lambs to try and take it now on the chance I have to pull one off later they’ll understand what it is and Heart wanted it more than the babies did.  I finally just took the nipple off and she pounded the whole bottle of milk replacer herself.  Figured it was just a little more added nutrition for her.  
Where this was Gus Gus’s first year I hope to use him for a few years to come but it’s awful tempting to keep the babies.  Triplets, their dad was a triplet and the mom had had four pregnancies with two sets of twins and a set of triplets.  Good chance at multiples from these two but I’ll probably try to sell them for replacements or trade.  Thing is Gus Gus is so mellow I hate to get rid of him as he has never once shown any aggression to me or my kids.  If he was a jerk I’d be just fine with one and done.


----------



## Baymule (Mar 30, 2021)

With kids around, a mellow ram is priceless.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 2, 2021)

You should have no problem keeping and breeding his daughters back to him for 2 generations.  The 3rd generation *must* be terminal.  If you don't want a huge flock, keep these 2 ewe lambs since you know they have a good production mama.  Keep their daughters out of Gus Gus and use them to produce meat until you replace the him in several years.  You can add other ewes as you go along but having the foundation flock be gentle and tame will help to settle in any new ewes you buy.

Rams are often mellow the first 2 years but many often get more aggressive as they age.  Since ewes are productive for 6 to 9 years I would still keep the 2 ewe lambs.  Eventually you will replace Gus Gus but the good production and disposition genetics from Heart and her lambs will be worth keeping for a foundation flock.  You already know what you have as opposed to getting something else later that is a guess.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 5, 2021)

@Ridgetop you make a good point.  Maybe it would be worth keeping them.
Ive been out with a bottle again to at least get the lambs used to the idea of taking a bottle but I really haven’t had to.  Everyone looks great and Heart is in fine condition.  The big white one I pulled is actually the friendliest little ewe out there.  Her siblings are spooky little buggers though, I can’t catch them without Bella.  She’s funny to watch with lambs, she’s always seemed to know that the rules for lambs and ewes are different.  If the lamb seems confused or doesn’t want to move she’ll walk up and shove them with her nose to move them.  It’s getting hot outside, and I’ll probably be shearing this week.  We’ve also gotta do a new leach field for our septic tank this week, ours is blocked up and turns out was illegal.  More money down the drain (pun intended) but that is life.  But I did find a way to make a little side money to even things out.  Friend of mine has a lot people wanting their horses started and he doesn’t have time for all of them so I’m back in the colt breaking business.  I’m excited for that!


----------



## Baymule (Apr 6, 2021)

@Ridgetop always has good advice, she's been at this for a long time.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 6, 2021)

Exciting that you are back in the horse breaking business.  It makes a great break from running the swine operation and sheep.  Hope the septic goes in easily.  Do you have to run a leach field or do you have a tank system?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 6, 2021)

I have to dig a leach field. My current system is a tank with a pipe that goes to a ditch in the field by my home.  That pipe got broken up and clogged so that’s I found out about it and technically that’s a big no no.  Most people are booked out for weeks but my bishop was able to find someone who can do it as soon as I can get pipe here for a great price.  He came highly recommended from multiple other people we know as well.  
I am excited to get back in the horse business.  When I was going to school up here my friend and I had quite the business going shoeing, training horses, and doing riding lessons.  Where he’s been here the whole time and just hasn’t had much time to work with as many horses it’s helpful to already have something of a client base built up.  So it’s been a win win for everyone, my wife is close to family where her parents and most of her family are within 10-15 miles of us, we’re 5 miles from my best friend with the horses, and he has someone to help him ride all the horses.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 6, 2021)

Hard work!  How deep do you have to go to set the leach pipes?


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 15, 2021)

Leach field got installed and passed inspection.  I could only go down 18 inches because of the water table and the guy that my bishop found us was awesome.  Got it dug and installed in a day.  When the inspector came out to check it out he asked me who had helped me and when I told him who he just said “He knows his stuff this will be a great system for you.”  Didn’t hardly check anything and just left.  So we’re excited to have that behind us.
Lambs are all looking good. I haven’t had to supplement them at all this far and everyone seems to be doing well.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 15, 2021)

So glad everything is going well for you!


----------



## Bruce (Apr 16, 2021)

If you could go down only 18" I'm surprised you didn't need a mound system.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 17, 2021)

A proper septic is vitally important, glad that is done and inspector was pleased. Lambs are looking good!  That’s great about close to wife’s family and your friend. Horse breaking puts the icing on the cake!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 18, 2021)

I did have to mound it up a little.  6 inches of gravel, 4 inch pipe with 2 inches of gravel on that.  2 inches of straw and 6 inches of topsoil took my to 20 inches but it was slopped on that side and there was plenty of dirt to build up with.  It was 18 inches at the lowest point so the part closest to the house was actually a little deeper.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 19, 2021)

I wish the weather would make up its mind.  Saturday I was outside in a hammock, cooking burgers on the grill and catching some sun thinking I should probably get my sheep sheared finally and then it gets cold and windy again.  Maybe I should quit saying it out loud because I’ve been saying for a couple weeks now I’m gonna shear the sheep and it suddenly gets cold and ugly or it rains.  Wanna make god laugh tell him your plans I guess.


----------



## Bruce (Apr 20, 2021)

Same type weather here. Had a week of late spring, now back to early spring. It is supposed to snow close to 2" tomorrow night into Thursday.


----------



## farmerjan (Apr 20, 2021)

We might only see some flurries or some cold rain.... but frost and possible freeze for a few days...


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 20, 2021)

Warm here, but that is normal for spring in California.  June gets cold and overcast.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 21, 2021)

Today was a pretty nice day.  Sun was shining with temps in the 50’s, got some outside work done.  When we dug the septic we broke the sprinkler system in 4 spots so I started to put all that back together.  Problem is though that when we pulled the pipe we pulled the wiring from the controller to the valves.  I had an idea the line was somewhere in the area where we would dig but I figured the ability to flush a toilet was more important than a sprinkler system.  I’ll just run new wires as I don’t know if when the wires pulled it pulled a splice apart somewhere underground and it truly isn’t worth the headache to find it.
My wife ordered a playset for the kids and had the delivery driver drop it right by the garage door so while I can still get in and out to get tools I can’t get to my generator so I can shear the sheep.  There’s a rider mower and a snow blower that I won’t be able to move until Saturday.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 21, 2021)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> When we dug the septic we broke the sprinkler system in 4 spots so I started to put all that back together. Problem is though that when we pulled the pipe we pulled the wiring from the controller to the valves.



We should have told you to check with SenileTexasAggie for guidance when locating and repairing water/septic lines!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 23, 2021)

Got to play Vet today.  I was over by the sheep and noticed one of my ewe lambs wouldn’t put any weight on her right back leg.  Walked in to check on her and found out she broke her lower leg about midway up.  Seems to be a clean break from what I could feel and see, she was being really good about it as long as I didn’t move it too much.  Fortunately I have a grundle of PVC pipe of different sizes that the previous owner left so I found one of the proper diameter and sawed it in half lengthwise.  Straightened the leg and wrapped it in cloth so my PVC wouldn’t dig into it, then put the PVC splint on with Vetrap.  Put a little duct tape on to hold the end of the Vetrap in place and looks good I think.  I took her out of the pen and put her in the dog run so that she can heal up without having to move around so much.  Can’t believe the little buggers are already almost a month old, time flies.  I’ll keep an eye on it for the next little while, probably keep it on for about 2 weeks if it doesn’t look like it’s digging into her or anything as she grows, and probably another 2 weeks in the dog run before I turn her in with the rest of them again.  My wife’s named her Dolly


----------



## Baymule (Apr 23, 2021)

Dolly will be a keeper. She will become such a pet that you won’t let her go. Sounds like she is in good hands. I wouldn’t have thought of a PVC splint. Just curious, what size pipe did you use?


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 23, 2021)

Good job.  If it was a clean break she should heal up just fine.  We keep PVC pipe cut in half in the emergency kit for splints and t s what our vet uses too.  No need for expensive purchased stuff when household materials work just as well.  She should heal up just fine.  However don't remove the splint completely after 2 weeks.  I suggest you remove it, check the leg, then rewrap and resplint for another 2 weeks.  If you take off the splint off too soon she can refracture the break.  Did that with a young Nubian buck years ago and the result was very bad.  

Shorter lengths are also useful when large kids are born with their front feet knuckled under.  Splinting them for a week helps to straighten the joints out.   

Oh yes, and if you have to sew up cuts, you can use fishing knots - the kind fishermen use to tie on their hooks and weights.  One year I had to sew up a large cut in a doe.  (Our animal vet had died and the horse vet and the small animal vet wouldn't touch livestock.  We learned a lot in those years!)  Everything went fine until it was all over and reaction set in and I started shaking.  Then we looked at the stitches and the knots were coming undone!!!      DS2, age 13 or 14 had to reknot them and did it with the knots he had learned at 4-H camp from the fishing leader!      LOL  I do order needles pre-threaded with suture thread as well as disposable scalpels for emergency stuff.  I get the stuff from Jeffers.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 26, 2021)

@Baymule it was inch and a quarter pipe.  Once I’d wrapped the leg it was the best fit.  
@Ridgetop we do have suture needles around but fortunately I haven’t ever had to use them thus far.  Maybe unfortunately as it means I’m probably getting rusty.  When I was going to school I got to practice suturing on cow uteruses.
I can get into my garage now but now it’s raining again so shearing will have to wait a little while longer.  I won’t complain about the rain as we desperately need it.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 26, 2021)

I rarely use any of my medical supplies - sutures, etc. - but I keep them on hand just in case.  As soon as you don't have them you will need them!!!  Luckily. curved carpet needles and dental floss can be used to suture as well in an emergency.  You just have to be sure to remove the stitches.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 26, 2021)

Waiting to shear won't be a problem if you are still getting cold rain or sleet.  Once sheared, sheep can be prone to pneumonia if the weather changes to cold and wet.  No rush for you to do it.  It is not like you have a fleece buyer demanding delivery.


----------



## Baymule (Apr 27, 2021)

Hmmm.... I have scraps of 1” pipe, 3/4” and 2” but no 1 1/4” inch. So I’ll just tell lambs, 
DONT BREAK YOUR DURNED LEG!


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 27, 2021)

1" and 2"  should be ok depending on the age and size of the lamb.  You can also cut it in thirds and after wrapping the leg in gauze use duct tape to secure it.  The trick is to make sure that the bones are not displaced before setting them.


----------



## Bruce (Apr 28, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> We should have told you to check with SenileTexasAggie for guidance when locating and repairing water/septic lines!


Except that we haven't heard from STA for a long time!


----------



## Baymule (Apr 28, 2021)

Bruce said:


> Except that we haven't heard from STA for a long time!


I’m afraid something bad has happened to him. He wouldn’t be gone this long.


----------



## farmerjan (Apr 28, 2021)

All manner of different "tries " to contact STA have failed.  I even asked the administrators if there was a way they could touch base, but they said they have not gotten any response either.  I wish I had a phone number to try or an address to write to.  
That brings up that subject.... contact with people outside of BYH... and if something should happen, does anyone in your family/friends, have the wherewithall to contact different people,  if something terrible happens?   I have decided to make a list that DS needs to call if something happens to me and at least 1 or 2 of the members here will be on the list.  Something to think about....


----------



## Baymule (Apr 28, 2021)

I need to put a list of contacts in the Will folder.


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 29, 2021)

Just redid ours and I think I will d the same.  

I really hope STA is ok.  His Beatiful Gal will be devastated if he is ill or . . . .   Or of his beautiful Gal is sck he will be devastated.  Praying for him.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Apr 30, 2021)

I’ve been infrequent so I hadn’t realized no one had heard from STA for so long.  Hope all is well.
Dolly is looking good, she actually puts some weight on her leg as she walks around her little dog run and grazes.  I put it over grass and she seems content.  She’s keeping up growing with her siblings I haven’t noticed any visible differences.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 4, 2021)

Sprinkler line is “mostly” fixed. I wound up laying 50 feet of new one inch pipe to get water to the sprinklers in back.  We were putting the old line together and kept finding leak after leak until suddenly no leak but no water at the back either.  It was leaking directly into the leech field which was doing its job dispersing water.  So I decided a new line was going to be easier than continuing to look for leaks.  The side yard sprinklers are toast but that’s where the septic system is.  I figure as long as the front and back have a working system I can move a sprinkler around the side yard to the spots needing a little more than what it gets from the....water and nutrition coming from the house.  
can’t believe we’re already in May!  It’s been a little cold and rainy and we had some snow just last week.  We’re going to be getting our garden in this next week.  My mom will be visiting us from Oklahoma and has volunteered to help us plant a garden that might actually produce this year.  We’ll be getting our chickens at the end of the month and I need to start building a coop but the prices of wood are killing me.  Bought 3 2x4s at the home
Depot last week and paid 24 bucks!  For that price they should be gilded or some rate African mahogany good criminey.  I found a way to use a lot less wood but still it won’t be cheap.


----------



## Baymule (May 5, 2021)

Good luck on building a chicken coop. I hope you can get enough lumber to build what you want.


----------



## Bruce (May 5, 2021)

Do you not get enough rain such that you NEED a sprinkler system??


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 5, 2021)

I do need the sprinklers to keep my lawn green. We’ve been fortunate to have some rain lately but come June and July it’ll be pretty dry for a while.  Even with more rain and snow up this way sprinklers are a necessity if you want a lawn.  I just don’t have to water as much.  Originally when I was designing my coop I was building one from the ground up.  Then I saw the price of lumber and Started thinking of ways to save a dollar.  We have an old grain silo behind the garage that is used for my tack shed.  I can build a dividing wall with nesting boxes right down the middle.  I went from building 4 walls and a roof to one wall.  Completely critter proof and the nesting boxes I’m looking at making would make for easy access to the eggs without having to go in with the chickens so it would help my wife as she still has her fear of chickens.  I don’t understand it myself but it is what it is.  I can also store feed and all my animal necessities on the other side of the silo and have them out of the weather and critter proof.  The wife wants me to go to Home Depot and buy one of those prefab sheds to put on the cement pad where there was a shed years ago so that I have another tack shed but I dunno that I want to have another payment to make.  They have them for under 100 bucks a month but I hate owing money on things.  Bad enough I have a house payment.  
Dolly has become very spoiled.  She never took a bottle no matter how much I tried but she eats hay and rolled oats without a problem.  I tried leaving a bucket of milk replacer in the pen with her to see if she wanted it and she never touched the stuff so I said bag it let’s see what happens without the replacer.  She’s been fine.  She starts bellering at 1:45 that it’s time for her feed and I better get her take care of.


----------



## Ridgetop (May 5, 2021)

The Rubbermaid type sheds won't do for livestock, but for utility tools, etc. they work just fine.  Particularly if you put them on a concrete pad, asphalt, or on plywood panels.  Costco usually has a large one for a good price in spring/summer and Home Depot and Lowes also have them on sale often.  Watch for sales on the holidays from Memorial Day through Labor Day.  Not as expensive as the wooden storage sheds.


----------



## farmerjan (May 5, 2021)

Try to give Dolly a little more balanced ration as the oats are not high enough in protein or the trace elements she needs to grow.


----------



## farmerjan (May 5, 2021)

You  might try a calf starter ration, mixed half and half with the rolled oats which will "tone down" the copper... but honestly, in nearly 40 years we have never seen a problem with copper toxicity in sheep if they are not being heavily fed grain and get grass as well to eat.  We have used the 14% calf ration for everything here on the farm and never had any repercussions.... there is always a first time I guess.   If she is doing okay on what you are feeding her, and she seems to be growing along with the others,  then maybe just do as you are doing... sometimes it pays to not "change things" that are working... you know the "if it's not broke"...theory.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 5, 2021)

@farmerjan you are right she does need more than rolled oats but I was being a lazy typist.  I keep rolled oats on hand for my horses when we’re doing some actual work (lots of riding in the mountains) and I was feeding it to Heart where she was nursing triplets.  When Dolly broke her leg I separated her and gave her rolled oats and hay cause I’d seen her eating with mama.  I went to the IFA (feed store) and asked for a recommendation on a good lamb feed and explained the situation.  They sold me on a pelleted feed that was medicated and had all the minerals and proteins she should want.  Brought it home and put it in the feed pan and it sat there for a full day.  Because I knew she eats the oats I mixed some oats with the pellets and next day the oats were eaten and the pellets weren’t.  Tried again and this time she ate the whole pan so I’ve been mixing rolled oats with this pelleted lamb starter.  I do about half and half but because it started as oats I just refer to it as oats.  Thanks for worrying about Dolly, it’s important they get everything they need.


----------



## farmerjan (May 6, 2021)

Not trying to be critical..... I just wanted to make sure that you were thinking of it.... and yeah, I do refer to things sometimes by what my mind has "called it"... Just knowing that she would not have anything to do with the milk, and it having more nutrients.... 
Glad that she is now eating both mixed together....


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 6, 2021)

Don’t worry I didn’t take it as critical.  Part of the benefit of being on BYH we have this awesome community of people who care about animals and want the best for them.
Got some cleaning done today, cleaned out the garage so I can actually get to my stuff and moved some of my animal equipment to the silo.  Now I can get to my generator so shearing should happen this weekend if nothing else gets in the way.  The sheep spend most of their time in the shade anymore it suddenly got warm.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (May 7, 2021)

Funny how times flies. It’s been two weeks so today I checked Dolly’s leg to make sure everything was healing as it should and to adjust the PVC cast to allow for a little growth.  Everything looks pretty good so I wrapped it it back up for another two weeks.  She walks on it a fair amount within her little area.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy (Jun 27, 2021)

Working 6 days a week plus training horses four days a week has kept me busier than I ever intended to be!  Some updates for our area.
Dolly the lamb is doing great, after 4 weeks of the PVC cast her leg set nicely.  She doesn’t even have a limp.  Bad part is she’s as bad as her mother now in letting me know when she needs to be fed.
We have chickens now, got a new batch at the end of May.  5 barred rocks, 5 austrolorpes, 5 true blues for fun, a silver laced Wyandotte and a blue Cochin.  Little beggars are growing fast.  I have half the silo converted to a chicken coop with a run around the outside of it.  I got to build my roll away nesting boxes but we’ll have to wait a while yet to see if they work.  Preliminary tests with store bought eggs indicated they should.
Horses horses horses!  I’m riding 4 times a week now but they’re not mine!  I’ve been meaning to get my horses over to the arena with me if nothing more than to get some time on them.  They don’t seem to mind not being ridden too much.  Easy life of eating ridiculously expensive hay and hanging out, life is hard right?  
it is ridiculously hot for this area at this time of year and its only going to get worse.  With limited water this year and this heat hay prices are through the roof.  I’ve got a mixed assortment of hay coming next week, stuff that was affordable and can be mixed to get us by.  Before we moved up here it was a bale of three way and a bale of alfalfa mixed so I’m not too worried and the price was right.  My horse training earnings will probably just keep going to paying for my hay.  
So that’s our update.  I’ll need to spend some time to get up to speed on everyone’s journals but I hope all had been well for you lot.


----------



## farmerjan (Jun 27, 2021)

Glad to see the post and that Dolly's leg is healed and doing good.  That is wonderful.

Riding riding riding is good if you are at least getting some pay or whatever to help you pay for the cost of your hay for your own. 
Have been reading and hearing from others in western TX and other areas about the deepening drought conditions.  Ranchers selling down on animal numbers to help extend what little grazing there is and to anticipate having to buy less hay for the winter. 
I am sorry for you and others with the drought conditions.  I realize that you are a "dryland farming area" .... but the horrible drought and all the lake levels getting so low everywhere is heartbreaking.  Although we had alot of rain earlier this year, we are not super wet now.  Not hurting, but the hay crops are lighter in some fields I think.  And we will not get a 2nd cutting if we don't get some decent rain in July.   I look at the drought monitor that you can pull up on the internet and it is horrible to see.  Scary to see pictures of the few big lakes and reservoirs and they are at 35 and 40 % capacity.... that is unreal.


----------



## Baymule (Jun 27, 2021)

Do you have somewhere to stock in a lot of hay? Fill the barn if you can! We raised Cornish Cross chickens and sold quite a few of them. Chicken meat bought our hay. LOL Horse training is buying your hay!


----------



## Ridgetop (Jun 28, 2021)

Our Utah sheep breeder friend usually farms a lot of hay, alfalfa, triticale, and other types.  He runs commercial sheep operation, as well as his show Dorpers, and sells hay as well.  The reservoirs went dry last year and he lost a lot of his crop.  This year he only  planted 2 hayfields and is not selling any.  He needs it all.  He said it is lucky that he doesn't depend 100% on his sheep and hay farms.  He owns a custom butcher shop too.  Farming family land helps his bottom line too.  Way too dry.  The entire western states are hurting.  

Most true scientists are saying that this is a normal weather pattern that occurs every so many generations.  Ignore the liberals and their howls of climate change.  This will eventually pass and the rains will return.  It will just be a long dry patch.  Remember the dust bowl when drought caused thousands of sharecroppers to lose their crops several years in a row?  These drought episodes have happened throughout history.  Archeologists and anthropologists are now blaming the desertion of the cliff dwellings throughout Arizona and Colorado on a sustained drought period making it impossibility for the Anasazi to raise enough crops to live on.


----------



## Bruce (Jun 28, 2021)

High Desert Cowboy said:


> 5 barred rocks, 5 austrolorpes, 5 true blues for fun, a silver laced Wyandotte and a blue Cochin.


I got 2 Australorps, 2 Ameraucana, a Silver and a Gold laced Wyandotte 3 weeks ago. The Wyandottes are SO much slower feathering out. They still have fuzzy backs and no tail feathers, the other 4 all have decent feathering all around. Do you find that to be true of your Wyandotte chick as well?


----------



## Mini Horses (Jun 29, 2021)

Good to see you post!   We always like to know you're "alive"...busy or not!    😁


----------



## Baymule (Jun 29, 2021)

@Bruce Wyandotte’s are slow to feather out, they look scraggly and ugly, leading one to wonder if you got stiffed with some mixed breed mutts. Then one day, they are beautiful!


----------



## Bruce (Jul 1, 2021)

I noticed today that they both have a few of their namesake feather colors coming in.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jul 15, 2021)

Mr. @High Desert Cowboy,

I am now caught back up on your journal.  Regarding:



Ridgetop said:


> We should have told you to check with SenileTexasAggie for guidance when locating and repairing water/septic lines!



I got to play with my water line again this past spring during the time I was off the forum.  I will tell everyone about it once I get caught up on everyone's journals.  I am caught up on 5 or so, about 20 left to go!

Senile Texas Aggie


----------

