# Kidding question...Is she going into labor??



## chubbydog811 (Oct 23, 2009)

My goat isnt due until tomorrow (Saturday the 24th). She is a Nubian/Alpine and this is her first time. 

To start - last week she started having some white discharge, acting very uncomfortable, and I actually though she was going to kid...She had a very distant look, just standing on her spool, spacing out. 
The day after, she looked very skinny again, and was acting normal.

So today, I was thinking she wasn't really pregnant. She was standing up on the fence between the girl's pen and the buck pen, wagging her tail at him, and acting like she was in heat...
I was going to go out and tell her she wasnt really pregnant (really I was just trying to waste time and go play with the girls  ), and that she was just faking it (this was around 4pm today). I went out there, started my way in the pen, and noticed her acting very off...She ran away from me and hid in the corner - normally she will run right up to me, and try to get the food that isnt really in my hand...So I sat and watched her for a few minutes, and she jumped up on the fence again, curled her head almost all the way back to her back, squatted, and pushed out some clear "gooey" stuff. Her back area is very pink, and looks as if there is a large bump inside...She also keeps jumping up and doing the stretch and push thing.. she separated herself from the herd, and has started some pawing, but not a lot...

Is she actually going into labor, or is she just adjusting again??? Anything else I should be looking for, or should I be keeping a close eye on her? Any idea how much longer?

Sorry for such a long post, but I really want to be able to watch this time!! Trying not to miss it 

Anyway, any advise would be great!! Thanks!


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## freemotion (Oct 23, 2009)

Do you know how to check her ligaments?  When they go soft, it is within 12 hours.


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 23, 2009)

I have read how to, and seen pictures, but I cant seem to find what any of it is talking about. If I am feeling in the right place, then she has softened a little, but but not enough to be able to feel all around her spine like everyone keeps saying.... I tried to feel again before I left the house at 7pm, but she wouldnt let me near her...Going to be checking her again in a few minutes...Ill try again when I go out!


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## freemotion (Oct 23, 2009)

I didn't quite get that part, myself.  I can clearly feel the two ligaments that are like a pencil running diagonally out from the spine near the tail.  Those will get soft and sort of "disappear."  If you have another goat, you can feel those ligaments and see the difference.


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 23, 2009)

Thanks! I have another young doe in with her so she isnt lonely. I felt her, compared to the pregnant one....The young doe it was pretty obvious, the pregnant doe, I could just barely feel them...I'm hoping that is good!?

As of now, she is starting to settle down a little - she was pacing like a mad woman when I checked her a little while ago, she is starting to stand in one place, pacing less, and starting to get talkative...She has been very quiet all day. 

She is doing the stand up, curl back and push thing more often...every 5-10 minutes or so. More clear goopey stuff came out too...She was grunting a little bit when she was trying to pass the clear stuff. 

Looks like she is dialated more, and very pink. 

If I am looking at it the right way..I would say the kid (or kids!) will be here by the morning...I have been going by the Fiasco website...great info there! 
But there is that very likely possibility that my new pregnant goat eyes are looking past something!


I am not patient enough for this!!!


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## freemotion (Oct 23, 2009)

Ha-ha!  You won't be sleeping tonight!!!!  I expect a blow by blow when I check this in the morning, and pictures of the kids by noon!


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 23, 2009)

Wasnt planning on much sleep tonight  ....I'm thinking of getting a few hours at least, then checking her progress again, then go from there!!

Hopefully there will be pictures by the morning!!!

Thanks a bunch!


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## lilhill (Oct 24, 2009)

Yep, sounds like babies very soon if they aren't already here by now.  Anxiously awaiting the good news!


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 24, 2009)

This goat is trying to drive me to insanity...

No Babies yet!!

Though we can add - constant stream of clear goo to the list...

Im desperately hoping she kids this afteroon...When I'm home!! That would be a very goatish thing to do to wait until I'm gone for the day 

Ill let you guys know when something happens!


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## freemotion (Oct 24, 2009)

Ooops, did I laugh?  I meant...


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## lilhill (Oct 24, 2009)

If you're not going to be home, then THAT is when she will kid.  Just goes with the territory.


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 24, 2009)

Yup! I know! I told my mum to call if she sees anything different...I'm only going to be a half hour away, so I should be able to get back pretty quick if need be!! 

And it is OK to laugh  I'm still in good humor lol


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## freemotion (Oct 24, 2009)

I'm nervous about my pregnant does and they are not even preggers yet!!!


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 24, 2009)

This doe is starting to make me very angry now!!! Stayed up a good portion of the night with her yesterday, got about 5 hours of sleep, just to come out to the barn again at 730 to find that she is just about NORMAL again!!! She got very large over the night, I'll give her that much, but no more pushing, or gooey stuff coming out...

Any ideas why this doe might be teasing me with the thought of kids???  


Forgot to add - I am going to ignore her tonight, hoping that maybe she will kid if I say she really isnt pregnant again!! lol

Also wanted to ask...Has anyone had a doe that "carried" full term, to the point that I am at, just to find she was "faking" it??

I know she got bred, and went through all the motions of a normal pregnancy, but I am starting to doubt she really is...Maybe this is why there are no babies yet, just a lot of fluid? Or maybe I am still just not patient enough! Any one have this experience???


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## Roll farms (Oct 24, 2009)

If she was passing much goo, she should have kidded by now, IMHO.
It also sounds like she was contracting from what you said yesterday.

If she hasn't kidded by tomorrow, I'd ask an experienced goat person or vet to check her out.  The kid(s) may be stuck.

Good luck!


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## freemotion (Oct 25, 2009)

Well?  Kids?


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 25, 2009)

No kids...Im thinking I will take the advice of Roll Farms, and call the vet out if there are no kids by tonight....That way, if there is a problem, we can get it fixed (hopefully), if not, maybe she can tell us how to get it out of the goat's head that she isnt really pregnant. 

:/

She has stopped pushing, though she is still swollen and pink back there. Nothing is coming out anymore. She has gotten fatter (Again)...Im thinking there might be a vet visit in our future!


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## freemotion (Oct 25, 2009)

Was she really pushing, or stretching?  My doe did a lot of strange stretching the day before she kidded.  I think she was trying to re-position the kid.  She gave birth the next day to a large single buckling with a front leg back.  She also got pretty vocal, looking at me and softly baaaah-ing, which was very unusual.  No discharge until an hour before she delivered, though.

What does your does udder look like?  (Gotta read that sentence out loud, dontcha?  )

Don't wait too long...it costs more to get the vet out at night around here!  A LOT more!


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 25, 2009)

She was pushing...Not hard, but trying to get something out. Could be possible what I saw as pushing might not have been...She was stretching a lot...But this started Friday night, and still no kids....She has been much quieter than usual, and she avoids me when I go in to see her. 

lol I almost did have to say that out loud! Her udder hasnt filled up. Her teats have, but not her udder. 

The Sunday call is much more expensive - the night time thing wouldnt even matter...I will probably call in the morning if there are no kids.


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## Roll farms (Oct 26, 2009)

*taps foot*

Well????


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## freemotion (Oct 26, 2009)




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## lilhill (Oct 26, 2009)

Kids or Vet visit???


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 26, 2009)

Sorry, been running around crazy this weekend, and trying to get all my papers done that were due today!

No kids, But I am thinking my mum mis-calculated the due date!   

I was thinking about when she got bred - it was the first week of June...That means the online calculator she used was a week and some off...I'm hoping this is the problem!

Going by that, I am hoping that she was just stretching, and re-adjusting...My gut isnt telling me something is wrong...It's saying either she's faking, or she is not due...

My mum had goats way back when, and she said one of her goats used to do the same thing.. up to a month before she actually kidded...I'm desperately hoping this is the same thing!!


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## freemotion (Oct 26, 2009)

We expect a daily update and pictures of the big day!


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## Roll farms (Oct 27, 2009)

I dunno, I've never had one pass a "constant stream of clear goo" when NOT in labor.

Hoping it's all right for your / her sake but....I am nervous.


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## lilhill (Oct 27, 2009)

Neither have I, and stretching is really different than pushing.


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## username taken (Oct 27, 2009)

I agree. 

"Passing a constant stream of clear goo", and pushing for an extended period of time, is not normal. 

Suck it up, and call the vet. 

Or, if you dont want to spend the money on the vet, grit your teeth and investigate the problem yourself. 

I would not leave this goat any longer without assessing her properly. 

Now is not the time for the "wait and see" approach. 

Best of luck


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## RedStickLA (Oct 28, 2009)




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## cmjust0 (Oct 28, 2009)

Dontcha love it when people come in and get everybody all worked up...then just totally bail.  

Can't help but wonder if they never called the vet, the goat died and took the kids with it, and the OP is too  to come back and say "Oops, shudda listened to you guys."


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## freemotion (Oct 28, 2009)

Hey, be nice.  We know nothing.  Maybe Grandma is in the hospital, or the daughter broke her arm.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 28, 2009)

Or nothing was really going on and the goat is fine. What one person thinks is a push may be a stretch to someone else. Maybe what they thought was goo really wasn't. Who knows. None of us are actually looking at the goat.


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## freemotion (Oct 28, 2009)

Too true!


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 29, 2009)

If you must know, I am a full time college student, and was there from 730am until 10pm yesterday. I dont see the need for rude comments. I came on here for advice, but I have not been home, so havent responded. 
I honestly dont think what I was seeing was what I thought it was. I am new to goats kidding, and I could have just been over excited/worried about her kidding. She most likely was just re-adjusting and getting ready. 
I said, in I think it was my third post, that there is that possibility that it was a "fake" pregnancy. She went through all the motions, then nothing. I cant help if I miss judged the due date, or the possibility that the goat is a nut (lol sorry, but I think she is).

I am not going to call the vet if an animal is not in pain or distress. She is normal, and nothing else has come out. She only passed the goo consistantly for about an hour.
If she seems to be upset about something, or weird stuff starts passing, then I will call the vet, but until then, I am going to go with my judgment of not calling. She has been fine all week. If anything, she looks less pregnant.


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## lilhill (Oct 29, 2009)

When babies line up in the birth canal, then the goat can look less pregnant.  The goo could have been just her breaking the mucus plug in preparation for kidding.  Is her udder filling with milk or full and tight?  I really don't think she is faking her pregnancy with the signs you've described; just not quite ready yet.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 29, 2009)

Good to hear everything seems OK.


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 29, 2009)

That is good to know! My mum keeps saying just wait, there is something, but I havent been too sure lol 

She has no udder what so ever. Her teats filled in a little, but not her udder. That is why I was getting worried that either she is going to kid with no milk, or kid to a pool of goop...Though I cant tell if she really did fill in a little, or if it is just her winter coat making her look bigger under there.


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## lilhill (Oct 29, 2009)

Okay, did you expose her to the buck or was she bred when you got her, thus the due date?  Open does will paw when they lay down, and will stretch when they get up.  Heat cycles will produce the "goo".  Does can produce the discharge a month prior to kidding and udders will start developing during that time frame, also.  You could just continue to watch her closely for another month or get a blood test to determine whether she's even pregnant.  Not being able to see her and give her the "pooch" test, this is a mystery to me.  Sorry, that's all I can offer.


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 29, 2009)

She was "exposed" to the buck on our property - she jumped the fence when she was in heat, and went for a romp around the farm with the buck who had also gotten loose. My mum found them in the barn doing their "business". We weren't actually expecting her to be bred, but we jotted down the due date just in case, so we werent surprised if she really did get bred...About a month ago, she started gaining weight in weird places even though we cut back her grain, then cut it again. She kept gaining weight, and then everything with this past week. We assumed she was pregnant...

What is the "pooch test"? I can get some pictures of her tomorrow when I get home - would that help? 

Thanks for the help! It really is helping, even if it doesnt seem like much. I got wicked excited about having kids on the farm again, but Im thinking there wont be any!  

Update for today: It looks like her weight dropped down and back again. She is also being nice to the other goats (which is very unlike her). Swollen in the back region again, though not pink or anything...She is kind of crouched up in her back, though not stretching at all. 

I'm standing by my opinion that I think she is a nut...lol...Crazy goat... I think she will be the one to drive me to insanity!


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## dianneS (Oct 29, 2009)

Aww, keep us posted.  This is interesting.  I hope you do have kids.
I haven't bred my new goats yet.  I haven't had kids in over 20 years.  I know I'd be a nervous wreck if I had a pregnant goat on the property, but I may breed one of my does in the spring.

Has your doe ever had kids before, or would this be the first?  Perhaps it is a hysterical pregnancy?  I knew of a dog that did that once, and it took an ultrasound at the vet to confirm that there were no puppies in there!

Good luck!


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## kimmyh (Oct 29, 2009)

I would not cut her grain if there is a chance she is pregnant. The pooch test examines the anus and the vulva, looking for a flattened triangle on just above the anus, and an elongated vulva.


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## chubbydog811 (Oct 29, 2009)

We had cut her grain a month and some ago, but then put it back up after she kept gaining weight. We were hoping the meant she was bred, so we wanted to make sure she was getting enough food! lol

If anything happens, this will be her first time. I was planning on breeding her this fall to my Nubian buck, but then her and the old buck decided to go on a date of their own. 

I'll probably bring her into the vets if nothing has happened with in the next month, but unless she is in pain or in some kind of stress, I am not going to waste the vet call. I wouldnt be surprised if there was nothing in there! I am hoping there is....but what can you do, other than suck it up, and admit that you have been fooled by a goat!!!


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## lilhill (Oct 30, 2009)

kimmyh said:
			
		

> I would not cut her grain if there is a chance she is pregnant. The pooch test examines the anus and the vulva, looking for a flattened triangle on just above the anus, and an elongated vulva.


I agree.  If she might be pregnant, she needs that grain.


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## dianneS (Oct 30, 2009)

Hmmm...  I wonder if a doe who's never kidded before would have the maternal instincts to have an hysterical pregnancy?  

Interesting... :/


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## dianneS (Oct 30, 2009)

Here's an article about false pregnancy in goats.  I guess it is possible even if she's never kidded before since it is actually caused by a physical condition rather than entirely mental.  http://kinne.net/flspreg.htm 

I still hope you have kids though!  Good luck!


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## chubbydog811 (Nov 5, 2009)

That was a very good website! I am hoping it isnt a hysterical pregnancy, but I dont know...Its like that website said, she is only acting 80% pregnant 

So far no kids 

I'm not sure if we misjudged by a lot, or if it is a fake pregnancy, but I am very disappointed about not having kids!

She has gotten VERY fat in the past few days. She's been pacing, harassing and beating on the other girls, pulling the hay out of the hay rack with her feet (pawing at the hay rack), and kicking the other girls out of their run-in. She has been an absolute monster! Total opposite of how she normally is. This is the behavior I saw in my other goats not too long before they kidded, so I'm hopefully that is a good sign 

Probably will get an ultrasound middle to end of the month if we dont have kids!

Anyway, just wanted to update!


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## dianneS (Nov 5, 2009)

Thanks for the update!   You just popped into my mind today and I was wondering how things were progressing!  Good luck!


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## chubbydog811 (Nov 12, 2009)

So, Gaelyn and I are going to be headed to the vets office in a few for an ultra sound! 

Getting ready for dissapointment, but maybe I'll be surprised 

She is still getting fatter...Even though we cut her grain a little...But I guess we will see!


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## dianneS (Nov 12, 2009)

Can you feel any babies or anything moving in there??

Good luck at the vets!  If she's not preggo, I hope she snaps out of it!


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## helmstead (Nov 12, 2009)

chubbydog811 said:
			
		

> She is still getting fatter...Even though we cut her grain a little...But I guess we will see!


"Fat" on a goat isn't a big belly - it's deposited over the muscles (back, shoulders, neck, etc).  A big belly could be babies, could be a healthy happy rumen, could be a worm load.

I think in my quick skim here I noticed others had recommended you not cut feed quite yet, so I'll second (or third, or fourth) that advice   Google body condition scoring for goats for some good ways to see if your goatie is indeed overconditioned.


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## chubbydog811 (Nov 12, 2009)

Got the ultra sound done...Nothing in there! I was thinking there wasnt, but just wanted to make sure... 
The vet though I was stupid for wanting to get an US on her, but I wanted to be positive so I didnt come out to dead kids or a dead goat. They also didnt believe in "fake" pregnancies. They couldnt explain to me why she hasnt gone into heat either. I think I may try to find a different vet (for future reference) who will check out something even if they dont understand why and not try to degrade me for it.

She is fat in weird places, that is why I thought it was a baby belly. I dont think it is her rumen, but it could very well be. It wasnt until the middle of Sept, that she started getting fatter (thats why we thought she really was pregnant).

Anyway, I'll worm her tomorrow, because that seems like a reasonable thing that could be wrong...They are just about due anyway.


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## kimmyh (Nov 12, 2009)

Can you post a picture of her taken from the rear?


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## chubbydog811 (Nov 12, 2009)

I can try to take some tomorrow. It the top view that worries me...She looks huge from the top, small from the front, and I dont see her from behind often.

Anyway, I should have time to take some tomorrow


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## dianneS (Nov 13, 2009)

I would look for another vet too.  False pregnancy is a very real thing.  If that corpus leudium doesn't dissolve then she would continue to produce progesterone causing all of the symptoms of pregnancy!

I've known of dogs that had false pregnancies, got fat and everything.  The only way to verify was with an ultrasound.  That is not so unusual?

Well at least you don't have to worry about a "problem pregnancy" or difficult delivery, dead babies or any of that!


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## chubbydog811 (Nov 13, 2009)

Funny story...I finished cleaning the horse barn this morning, and was going to dump the the wheelbarrow, and guess what little monster goat was in heat? 

She could have done that earlier this week and saved me the vet trip!!

Crazy goat...I'm still going to say it was a false pregnancy - what was going on on the 23rd was much different than this...She wasnt interested in the buck the last time, and there was A LOT of goop coming out! Nothing is coming out this time.
I'm glad she broke out of it though...
I think I am going to breed her on her next heat though...That would be way too many kids all at once if she got bred now! (already bred 2 of my other girls last month)  

Gotta love those goats


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## freemotion (Nov 13, 2009)

Yep, goats sure keep life interesting.  Didn't think I had OCD before....starting to wonder now....


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