# Help ASAP! Cold kits!



## secuono (Oct 2, 2011)

So she had her unknown kits while I was away! 5 of them, I believe, they are her first, couldn't palpate. They were on the cold wire, 4 were stuck in the wire between doe and bucks cage, buck did not harm them. 
I put a towel, hay and pulled her fur, she didn't pull any. She jumped in, but ate the hay, I think she was also stepping on the babies! 
So I switched to old grass hay, she jumped in, didn't eat the grass and jumped back out. The babies always cry out when she is in there, idk if she is stepping on them or what.

Help!!


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## Ms. Research (Oct 2, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> So she had her unknown kits while I was away! 5 of them, I believe, they are her first, couldn't palpate. They were on the cold wire, 4 were stuck in the wire between doe and bucks cage, buck did not harm them.
> I put a towel, hay and pulled her fur, she didn't pull any. She jumped in, but ate the hay, I think she was also stepping on the babies!
> So I switched to old grass hay, she jumped in, didn't eat the grass and jumped back out. The babies always cry out when she is in there, idk if she is stepping on them or what.
> 
> Help!!


I am so sorry you are going through this.  I wish I could help but all I know is that does with first litters do sometimes reject their litter or don't know what to do.  Breeder friend of mine's harlequin (first time mom) lost 7 kits just recently.   The kits are probably hungry, that's why they are crying out as well.  Not to mention Mom is stepping on them.  She doesn't acknowledge their presence.  Unfortunately this happens.   Do you have another doe to put these kits with?  I know other does lactating will foster kits.  

So so sorry for this to be happening. 

Also another thought, you could make her stay on the nest twice a day by holding her.  So the kits could nurse.  Give her hay and bedding outside the nest box  so she won't step on them.  Just a suggestion.  Hope those who have been through this reply.


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## secuono (Oct 2, 2011)

I did put a bunch of mixed foods outside of the nest box. She is not a friendly rabbit, me holding her would only stress and piss her off. No other does. They do not make noise unless I move them or the doe is in the box, and when she is in there, I'm sure she is stepping on them. 
When I noticed them and ran over, they were cold, my hands were real cold, so feeling them even colder isn't good. Its in the 50's and windy, I put up a blanket over one side of the hutch. 

Is there a milk re-placer for rabbits I could try??


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## Ms. Research (Oct 2, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> I did put a bunch of mixed foods outside of the nest box. She is not a friendly rabbit, me holding her would only stress and piss her off. No other does. They do not make noise unless I move them or the doe is in the box, and when she is in there, I'm sure she is stepping on them.
> When I noticed them and ran over, they were cold, my hands were real cold, so feeling them even colder isn't good. Its in the 50's and windy, I put up a blanket over one side of the hutch.
> 
> Is there a milk re-placer for rabbits I could try??


Found this:  Goat Milk or Kitten Powder Formula 



> Use Meyenberg Regular Goat milk (found at Safeway in the milk section or Whole Foods) or KMR KITTEN powder formula + follow directions on the can. (KMR better for domestics). It may be easiest to start with a 3 cc/ml syringe or an eyedropper. Some use pet nurser nipples on the end of a luer lock syringe, or a teat cannula on the end of a syringe. Feed only with the bunny sitting UPRIGHT, and point syringe down towards bottom or side of mouth, so if too much comes out, the baby does not aspirate! For those who are slow to learn nursing, SC fluids may be necessary to prevent electrolyte imbalance or dehydration (check with a vet on this only!!). Domestic buns with closed eyes should be fed 2 x a day, and the number of feedings gradually decreased until they are weaned. If their eyes are still closed, you need to stimulate their bottoms with a warm moist towel after feedings to help them to pee. (Domestics are weaned about 6 weeks; wild bunnies are weaned about 3-4 weeks for cottontails and 9 weeks for jacks). Bloat is commonly associated with too frequent feedings and too much at one time.


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## secuono (Oct 2, 2011)

I saw her jump into the box, she sniffed something, sat with her head up for 30 seconds and then jumped out.
What does it look like when the doe is feeding?


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## secuono (Oct 3, 2011)

She smashed them to death...ugh. Tossed her right into the buck's cage.
Who ever said the doe will be willing to breed after her first litter is a liar, she is just as anti as before.


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## doubled (Oct 4, 2011)

She CAN be bred during the week after kindling I have just done this myself, had a Doe Reject her litter. As always there is always some that don't act Normal if you will. There are alot of Books that talk about this subject. So I guess there are alot of liars telling the same lie for many years....


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 4, 2011)

NOt that this is suppose to make you feel much better, but atleast your doe is still alive, our son accidentally, left the latch undone, on the cage with his new silver fox, and she got out and our lab had herself a little picnic today.   .  She was due in 2 weeks, if she was pregnant.    

  How can it be so hard to have a live litter of kits.   


So anyway here is feeling for your frustrations.  I know my son is soooo frustrated.


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## hoodat (Oct 6, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> She smashed them to death...ugh. Tossed her right into the buck's cage.
> Who ever said the doe will be willing to breed after her first litter is a liar, she is just as anti as before.


All you can do is say what MOST rabbits do but there is a lot of difference in behavior from one rabbit to the next and does seem to vary in behavior more than bucks.


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## manybirds (Oct 6, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> So she had her unknown kits while I was away! 5 of them, I believe, they are her first, couldn't palpate. They were on the cold wire, 4 were stuck in the wire between doe and bucks cage, buck did not harm them.
> I put a towel, hay and pulled her fur, she didn't pull any. She jumped in, but ate the hay, I think she was also stepping on the babies!
> So I switched to old grass hay, she jumped in, didn't eat the grass and jumped back out. The babies always cry out when she is in there, idk if she is stepping on them or what.
> 
> Help!!


if they're cold I hold them under my shirt. it's comon for mom to step on them all you can do is keep hay in there and clip her toenails.


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## dewey (Oct 7, 2011)

Having a buck right next to her when kindling could be distressing.  By nature rabbits are sensitive and sensitive to environment.  If I read it right it sounds like she had a buck right beside her and also kindled without having a nest or nesting material at her disposal (it happens)...but either one alone could spell disaster through no fault of her own.  Does with environmental stress are set up for almost certain failure, and a stressed doe is unlikely to breed right after the fact.  Even under different conditions once the kits got cold she could have known they would not survive, appearing to be careless with them to onlookers.  A few key adjustments in the environment is often all that's needed for success. 

eta: a blow dryer on low warm also works great to warm chilled kits.


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## Genipher (Oct 14, 2011)

That's interesting, dewey. I have a three compartment hutch and each hole has a small wire window looking into the next hole. One of the does is next to the buck. Could this cause problems when she kindles? I just had her (hopefully) bred yesterday. Also, the buck was having a more difficult time getting her to cooperate compared to the doe furthest away from him. Could that be because they're "neighbors"?


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## wooliewabbits (Oct 15, 2011)




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## secuono (Oct 15, 2011)

This was her first littler, so I'm assuming the 1st littler is a test litter and don't hope much for it. 
I had lionheads that bred by accident, all 1st time moms, different ages, only 1 near a buck. All of them failed to care for the kits. 

He is a very docile buck, never bothers her or even the kits when they were half on his side. She in general is very nutty and uneasy in temperament. I call her ms psycho.


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## secuono (Oct 24, 2011)

Re-bred her on the 4-6, two of those days, don't remember. Going to add the nest box today and weigh her. Hope if she is preggers, she will care for the kits...Or I'm looking for a new, proven mom.


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## secuono (Oct 24, 2011)

She is 9 lbs, last time she was 10 and a little a few days before she had the kits. Gave her the next and we'll see what she does.


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