# Updated 3/29/12 Melissa Farm Picture Journal *New Pictures Pg 10*



## Melissa'sDreamFarm

I have 3 Nigerian Dwarf goats that probably are pregnant. 2 of them will be their first time. Of course it's my first time having pregnant goats. When should they bag up or when should I notice a difference in their udders. 

I separated the buck a couple of months ago and I'm concerned may be they aren't pregnant and what I'm seeing is just some well fed goats, lol. There is NO udder development on any of my goats. 







Of course I have to include a picture of one of the fattest goats, who doesn't like me calling her fat. This picture was taken several months ago, during the GREAT BUCK escape while I was working out the new buck enclosure and "fixing" all the escape routes, lol. Buck pen now has a chicken wire top on half and tarp over the buck house, lol. They can jump on top of the buck house to jump out of the pen. Now with the canopy in the way and the chicken wire, it's just a deterrent.


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## Emmetts Dairy

I love that picture!! Stickin her tounge out!!   They can bag up anywhere from 30 days prior to delivery or a few days.  Depends on the goat.  No help there I know!! But the next time she will will be approx to the sametime as the first time,  if that helps?  If its a first timer I always go by the ligaments to know when the time is coming. The hind ligs connected to the tail will drop so far down you wont be able to feel them anymore.  I found that is the best way for first timers. 

I would recomend getting familar with those ligs and how they feel now...then you will know when they are gone...once there gone it will be anytime in the next 6 to 24 hours.  

Good luck!!


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## freemotion

Some people here on byh can tell if a goat is preggers by looking at their hoo-hoo (Latin name for lady parts  ) so if you can get clear pics of each one and post it, change the title to alert the experts, you might get some answers.  Just don't hold their tails up when taking the pic as that stretches things out unnaturally.  Take your time and get pics of them holding their tails up themselves.


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## Ariel301

Most does begin bagging up around a month before kidding.


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## lilhill

I agree.  My does tend to start uddering up about 30 days prior to kidding.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

lilhill said:
			
		

> I agree.  My does tend to start uddering up about 30 days prior to kidding.


x2- though we see udder development on ffs a little earlier.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Here are some pictures from yesterday of 2 of my goats who I suspect are pregnant. The first is of Annabell, this is not her first time around the block, lol. I noticed her vagina was swollen yesterday and was "drippy" with clear fluid. She is also acting very "bucky", smelling other goats, blubbering and such. Excuse the berry, but goat buts are hard to take pictures of. Do they look pregnant or just fluffy?
















And then there is Skye, this is her first time.


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## helmstead

AB...I miss her!  Never should have let that one go...

She looks open to me.  Sounds like she's in heat.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

I too believe she's in heat. I think my buck Dell is probably too young/small to breed them. The real reason I'm posting this is I found Miss Annabell flirting with the boys yesterday when I got home. Trotting up and down the fence line blubbering and wagging her tail. Little trollop, lol. I thought for sure she was pregnant! 

Just know Kate, AB is dearly loved and as you can see, well fed, lol. I love her more than words. She and Cerina are my all time favorites. 

My other Nigerian's, Millie and Skye are just too stand-off-ish. In their defense, they were dam raised. I assume their stand-off-ishness is due to that.


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## freemotion

One of my dam-raised does, still best buddies with her mom and inseparable, was rather standoffish until she had a traumatic and life-threatening delivery of triplets.  She knew I was helping her (thanks yet again, helmstead, for guiding me into saving all four!) and I checked on her all night, let her sleep against me while I massaged her after, and she is VERY attached to me now.  

I'm not recommending traumatic deliveries, however.  I'm sure my lifespan lost a couple of years that night!


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Okay so here's the next question. If AB is in heat and she's a little overweight I would like to restrict their feed some. Of course they would have free browse and hay, but the grain would be cut back. So does she look over conditioned? I have concerns for her weight due to the large kids she had last time and I don't want any traumatic births, if I can help it. 

Does my other doe look pregnant or fluffy. If they are all just fluffy due to the extra garden scraps and browse, then I'll just cut them all back (on grain), but if I have a pregnant doe, I would give that doe extra grain on the milk stand for "practice" and to support the pregnancy. 

Sorry for being an overly concerned first time goat "mommy". 

Thanks, Melissa


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## 20kidsonhill

They both look open to me and with plenty of condition on them. Personally if they were mine and I was getting ready to breed them in the next 3 to 6 weeks, I would keep on doing what you are doing with them, get them bred and then take them off of all grain until they are 4 weeks from kidding. 



If you aren't planning on breeding them, then I would just cut back on the grain right now. 

If there is a chance they are all ready bred, you probably should be worried about over feeding them. Especially with that much condition all ready on the girls.


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## helmstead

AB is NOT overweight, she's actually a little under (I can see her hips)...so do not restrict her feed.  Her belly is just big because she's aged, has kidded a lot, and has a good rumen.

The other doe might be bred, she does look a little extra round...

_ETA not saying you're not feeding AB enough, she's not thin, she's just not overconditioned.  She was always a little fatty here, slightly harder to keep in good condition when milking...but I'm sure her age is making her a harder keeper._


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

That's good, I love giving them their grain!! AB does not like to eat with other goats, it's beneath her, lol. So I go and sit with her and drink my coffee in the AM while she eats her 2 cups. In the afternoon, especially since it hot, she eats her grain by herself most days. Just yesterday she was having too much fun blubbering at the boys to eat!!

I love my goaties and I'm glad to here ya'll think she looks good and not too fat. I guess I'll keep feeding Skye on the milk stand, she has been getting bigger and bigger. 

So if I want to breed AB, do I just let her go in Dell's pen? Do I leave her there or let them do their thing and take her back out? He can't go in with the girls. I don't want him breeding Cerina, god forbid!! She is only 5 months old. 

Thanks, Melissa


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## helmstead

Yup, just put her in there...altho you might have already missed this window this month.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Well I'll try tonight and see if anything looks promising. Not that I would know if it looked right or not. I'll mark my date on the calendar and 21 days from today is August 17th. So I'll check her that week for heat again. Am I correct?

BTW I feed her 1 cup of Purina Goat Chow and 1 cup of Alfalfa pellets with a few sprinkles of sunflower seeds. Is there anything else I could add to keep her condition up? She also gets 2 animal crackers before bed, lol. She will chase me across the yard for animal crackers.


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## helmstead

Just increase the chow...

If it were me I'd leave her in with the buck for 45 days...


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## SDGsoap&dairy

Aw, AB... Yeah, she looks open to me too.  Her last kidding she was HUGE.  I'm with Kate on the conditioning simply because you're going to want plenty of extra padding on her going into late gestation.  She puts everything into her kids the last month so you'll want to plan for the fact that she's going to strip some peri/post-parturition.  I'm careful about maintaining cah ratios even on my open/dry does so if it was me I'd up her alfalfa so she's getting 3 cups to her 1 cup of grain.  If that's not enough then I'd up the total ration but maintain ratios.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Here are some more pictures of Annabell. Different angles so you can see what I'm seeing. 

















She's still acting buck-y, but the pink looking private area is gone. No leaky stuff, but it's still a larger opening than before, if that makes sense. 

Thanks, Melissa


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

For my friends on FB, I uploaded a short video. 
I felt like a goat stalker, lol.


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## aggieterpkatie

If y'all think AB is slightly underweight that must mean I am at a perfect weight.  Sweet.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

I know the rumen moves, but I am just so confused about her being pregnant or not. Could she have had a "false" heat? I know cows do and one time I "saw" a bull cover a bred heifer who was later diagnosed with some hormone issues and had some large follicles causing her to have the "false" heat. From what I know, cows have "small" false heats throughout pregnancy, but the bulls know the difference and won't breed them. This is the kind of information you get when you work with a bunch of vets, lol. We do see a large amount of cows (surprisingly) but not too many goats. 

We once got in a silkie chicken that was caught eating decorative beads and rhinestones, lol. She was a "house" chicken that wore diapers. That x-ray was one for the books and they use it in Open House here at the Vet School, lol.


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## helmstead

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> If y'all think AB is slightly underweight that must mean I am at a perfect weight.  Sweet.


I KNOW AB - she was one of our first goats...so I know what's right for her.  She's under conditioned.  With her, unless she's lactating, you should not see her hip bones or spine.  

Remember, you cannot judge a goat's condition by it's belly.  

If she were shaved, everyone would see what I'm talking about.  A shaved goat tells the story (which is why we shave ALL our goats every year, at least once).


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

I've considered shaving. I itch thinking about it, but it's so hot I just might do it. I am interested to see how my goats look, frame wise. I want good condition, but I'm notorious for having slightly overweight animals. I finally have our gelding (horse) with good flesh. He was overweight for years and came down with colic. Then he was a skeleton (after recovering from colic) and slowly we added the weight back on and I now know exactly what to feed him (seasonally) to keep him in good condition without over doing it. 

We now have a small mare pony that is portly looking, but the vet said it's normal for a pony to have a slight barrel. I have to keep my eyes on her ribs, this is the area I've learned in horses to watch to know condition. 

I'm still learning goats. Thanks you guys for your help.


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## aggieterpkatie

helmstead said:
			
		

> aggieterpkatie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If y'all think AB is slightly underweight that must mean I am at a perfect weight.  Sweet.
> 
> 
> 
> I KNOW AB - she was one of our first goats...so I know what's right for her.  She's under conditioned.  With her, unless she's lactating, you should not see her hip bones or spine.
> 
> Remember, you cannot judge a goat's condition by it's belly.
> 
> If she were shaved, everyone would see what I'm talking about.  A shaved goat tells the story (which is why we shave ALL our goats every year, at least once).
Click to expand...

I'm not looking at her belly, I'm looking at her hooks and her withers...but that's only going from what I can see in the pictures, and pictures don't mean everything, especially when judging things like this.     But I'm not used to seeing any dairy goat with non-visible hooks.


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## helmstead

Oh, shave 'em LOL.  

The chocolate buckskin is a little over-loved - as she should be going into her first lactation (FFs tend to take their lactations harder).

Aggie...hooks??  Do you mean hips?

AB is somewhat mutton-withered (not very sharp over the withers), and with the hair over them, they're harder for someone to judge if they don't know the goat already.  And, dairy goats that are DRY shouldn't be BONY.  IMO.

Fret not Melissa...you're doing fine.  You're going to have a little more trouble keeping weight on aged does and bucks, generally...and she's far from being THIN...she's just a little under.


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## aggieterpkatie

helmstead said:
			
		

> Aggie...hooks??  Do you mean hips?
> 
> Fret not Melissa...you're doing fine.


Yep.  And yep. They look well cared for, Melissa!


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## SDGsoap&dairy

AB had false cycles her last pregnancy.  Drove me nuts.  She also tends to be a little saddle-baggy so the belly tells you nadda.  Unfortunately there's just no guessing with her- if you want to keep your sanity you mind consider sending in a sample to BioTracking.

She also puts EVERYTHING into her kids periparturition and everything into milking postparturition.  That means having her a little overconditioned going into late gestation is going to be a good thing.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

I need buck advice now. Seems none of my does are pregnant. He will be 8 months old August 28th. We removed him from the heard in May. He was 5 months old then. So I do have a buck pen, but it's not at big as I would like. It's only 50x50 with a 4x4 open face shelter. How do I tell if he has done his job and it took? Because he was all over them before several times a minute (lol). You could really tell when one was in heat, it was just constant, like he was a growth sticking off their backsides. 

What I'm debating on is taking them to the next county for breeding, but if I do that, why do I have a buck?


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## SDGsoap&dairy

If they haven't settled I'd give him another chance.  5 months old is pretty young... our Junior buck Pie settled does at 6 months old but even then the does were a little pushy with him.  At 8 months he should be able to handle it.  The other thing is that if you're pen breeding it's entirely possible he got them but you didn't see it.  They seem to be equally appealing to the bucks throughout a heat cycle but the doe is only receptive during a short time so it's easy to miss the act, even if you see the buck glued to her behind for 2 or 3 days.  If you don't think they're settled because you're seeing heat cycles why don't you hand breed them?  Then you'll know for sure the day they're bred and can send samples into BioTracking 30 days later.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

BioTracking confirmed none pregnant. Of course I have no clue what to look for, I just hate to lock Cerina in with Hershey, I was feeding Hershey and Dell alfalfa pellets and hay. They were looking good. I still feed Cerina grain as she is still growing. Do you see where I'm getting at? Cerina would have to separated from Dell, she is still too young. But Dell needs to go in with the girls to breed them. I just hate "apple cart turnover". My feeding times had gotten so much better with the boys separated out. Dang it.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

If it were me I'd keep the boys where they are and hand breed the does.  Do they share a fenceline?  It makes it easy to tell who's cycling because the doe will be over at the fence mooning over the buck.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Yep they share a fence line and the only time they go over there is when I feed the boys first, lol. I'll give it another try.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Just a picture update of AB. I like to keep them here so I can see progression, which I do. I know SEE the difference in under-weight versus a little padding. To me AB looks just about right.  Thanks Kate!!!

You see her filled in more around the spine and upper tail head. I can actually squish a little flesh above the tail head. She doesn't care for "said squishing", but I love to give her a little scratch now and then, lol. 













Millie and Cerina





Sky, who is a little fat, she has an udder forming, but BioTracking said none of my does were pregnant. Do does who are over-weight get a little udder, like women who are overweight have more fat stored in their chest? The only reason I have a chest is because I'm a little fluffy, lol. 





She was bred again to Dell on August 26, when he showed interest, but she was also put back with him again on 9/23 when she showed interest. I just may end up with pet goats, this breeding thing is not easy. Dell, Hershey and my boar goat Jenny have been "put to pasture" as in my friend 5 miles down the road got rid of all his boars and the pasture started growing all kinds of weeds.  So they have been put to work cleaning it up. I might have to let a couple of my other girls "go to pasture" so they can be with Dell if I see any more signs of heat.

I found a Nubian breeder 10 miles from me, I plan on buying a spring buckling to bred Cerina to next fall. She has several color combinations and even spotted nubians. But I'm not sure I like those spots too much. I like the solids more.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

I should correct myself, these are 2 month progress photos.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

Yes, doelings will develop a little pad of adipose tissue- it's particularly noticeable when they're well conditioned.


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## Goatmasta

My 2 cents...

  With dairy does in particular, you want them almost too fat when you breed them.  They will put a lot of that condition into their babies, and you want to do your best to keep them that way during the pregnancy if you can.  When they kid and lactation begins (provided you have a fairly good doe) they will milk the condition away quickly.  If they are not at proper weight at the beginning of lactation, you will rarely be able to catch up, you most likely will have to dry them off early and end up with a bag of bones instead of a slightly thin good conditioned doe.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Things have changed a lot since I last posed. I tried my hand at shaving girlie parts and I do not have the talent you guys have. Don't laugh at their hair cuts, it was my first time. 

Millie, I first noticed her udder filling up Christmas Eve.










I noticed Skye's udder forming January 13th










So how much longer do you guys think I have to go? I've tried and tried to find those pencil ligaments, but I can't say I've found them to know if they have softened.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

September, when I'm guessing she was bred





Yesterday, January 25th





September





Yesterday, January 25th


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## SmallFarmGirl

The first doe looks like she'll kid alot earlier then the second one.


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## 20kidsonhill

Congrats, they are looking great.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Anybody have any idea on what to look for when Millie is ready to kid? Does she look like we are close? I haven't seen any mucous or anything. I first felt her small FF udder 12/24/11. She's not very big, her udder is not tight, her privates have gotten really big and pink. What other changes will happen?

I've tried looking for the tail ligaments and I just don't know what I'm feeling in there.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

My ffs usually start building mammary tissue about 6 weeks out and do so slowly.  I would guess you have at least two weeks to wait.  Keep an eye out for very sudden, rapid filling and for everything around her tail head to look loosey goosey.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Still no progress on that udder. She looks to be filling out toward the back? I'm getting impatient, so I probably will have the first goat on record to bag up when they GOT pregnant, lol. 

I have a new baby though. He is the sweetest little thing. He has a wonderful disposition and settles right down when I put his heat lamp on in the outside house in his pen. He will be my future herdsire and has some wonderful genetic behind him.  I hope he will have some company in the next few days. 

Presenting Dawson....












Thanks Nicki at http://www.smithurmonds.com/ for such a great buckling.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

Oh my, who is that gorgeous fella?!  

He looks great and I am so pleased you're happy with him.  I thought you would be!


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## Mamaboid

What a handsome little guy.  And I really like his name.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Here are some pictures from this morning. Tomorrow will be 6 weeks since I noticed her building an udder. I finally figured out those tail ligaments and they are still there. 





















What do you guys think? A couple more weeks? On the body pictures I tried to show the hollows around her upper belly near the spine.


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## 20kidsonhill

What do you mean by, Still no prgress on that udder?   the doe you have pictured has a nice udder. Am i confussed?  I would say the doe in the picture has less than 2 weeks.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

So you think it's bigger. It's hard for me to tell. I look "longingly" at it everyday, waiting and waiting for a change, a discharge, ligaments gone. I'm going crazy!!!! I need babies already! I've owned these girls for well over a year now and they were my first goats and this will be my first ever kidding. Can you tell I've gone over the deep end?


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## SDGsoap&dairy

She doesn't look close to me... but that said it's entirely possible that that is how she will look right up until 24 hours before she kids when she fills completely.  All I can say is that you will know it when you see it.  All of the sudden her udder will fill and you'll go "oh my!  It didn't look like that yesterday..."  Checking on her daily, feeling her ligs every day- it will give you something to compare her progress with.

Her ligs will be a better gauge than her udder.  Lots of does will slowly loosen up in the week or two before kidding, but not all.  You'll start to see changes in the slope of the rump and angulation of the rear legs.  The tail will get all loosey goosey.  It takes a few kiddings to be able to read the signs well and even then they throw us for a loop!!   Get your kidding stall all ready to go, your supply kit by the front door, and your baby monitor set up.  These early signs are frustrating, but you'll know when she is close.


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## that's*satyrical

That Nicki breeds some nice goats. Check out my cutie:







Teva is 4 months old  <3


We are also getting excited for our first babies any day  Husband has to stop messing with me about them not really being pregnant since the vet felt the baby today


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## Mamaboid

that's*satyrical said:
			
		

> That Nicki breeds some nice goats. Check out my cutie:
> 
> http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/4920_0248.jpg
> 
> Teva is 4 months old  <3
> 
> 
> We are also getting excited for our first babies any day  Husband has to stop messing with me about them not really being pregnant since the vet felt the baby today


What a pretty little girl.  I love her whispy look.  Good luck with those babies, hope they get here soon for you.  The waiting is torture.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

Thanks guys!  I can't wait to see Teva and Dawson clipped in the Spring.  I'm super excited to clip their half sister as well and see what kind of yearling is underneath all that plush coat!    I love seeing pictures of my babies happy, healthy, and successful in their new herds.  It's one of the best parts of breeding goats IMO.  Thank you!


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## that's*satyrical

Thank you Mamaboid  

Nicki, you're welcome. We love our Teva  She was doing goat flips today showing off for all the old, tired preggie goats & the chickens lol


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

This morning things seemed to be loosening up in the tail area. I could NOT feel the ligaments. I tried and tried to find them, but they were not tight. So here are some pictures from this morning. She did eat her breakfast and act normal. There was a lot of movement going on in her belly, but she seems to be ignoring it. I'm at work and my aunt will check on her at 11 so I can gauge if I need to go home at lunch to check on her. I locked her in the milk room with a flake of hay and a bucket of water. 

Millie this morning





















If she doesn't kid today, I'll let her back in with the other girls when I get home. 

Thanks for looking guys.

that's*satyrical, thanks for all the compliments on my baby from Nicki, and I just love your Teva, she reminds me of my Millie. They just grow up too fast. Dawson was running around yesterday and playing with Cerina, it was too cute. He still jumps at my legs wanting me to hold him. Love the babies.


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## 20kidsonhill




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## Mamaboid

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

>


X2


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## that's*satyrical

Melissa'sDreamFarm said:
			
		

> So you think it's bigger. It's hard for me to tell. I look "longingly" at it everyday, waiting and waiting for a change, a discharge, ligaments gone. I'm going crazy!!!! I need babies already! I've owned these girls for well over a year now and they were my first goats and this will be my first ever kidding. Can you tell I've gone over the deep end?


OMG, I feel the same way!! Enya is holding out on us too. I felt her ligs still going strong yesterday & babies still moving in there. She is such a butt about me checking her too. Here's hoping we get relief & these girls pop those babies out soon!!!!!


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## Mamaboid

I am so sorry to hear you are suffering such harsh symptoms of G.A.S.  My prescription is take two looks at the baby pics on BYH and repeat as needed to make symptoms bearable until such time as you get those babies born.  Meanwhile, we all will be having sympathy pangs for you and will continue to support you in your time of need.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

I have G.A.S.? 

Just don't tell my husband. It'll be our secrete, lol.

Aunt called at 11:40 AM, no progress.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

Bet we will see pics of a lovely kid or two in the morning.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

When I got home Millie was maa, maa-ing continuously. It was soft maa-ing, not panicked at all. There was no goo so I feed her and she ate her grain like normal. So I decided to let her out of the milk room into the goat pen while I cooked supper, she seemed to want to be with her friends. 

I went in a started cooking and then looked out the back door to check on where she was and she was laying down in the goat shelter and it looked like she was contracting. I had my husband go out there and he could not catch her. I finished cooking and shut everything off and locked her back in the milk room. She layed by the chain link gate that enters the goat pen. Maa, maa-ing softly. I give up and go eat supper. When I check on her at 7:00 she is laying by the gate with Jenny on the other side of the gate. She's quiet and looks uncomfortable, I check her rear end but not goo. I stay until 8:00. I go in a get warm and go to the bathroom and at 8:37 go back out check on her. She is laying down screaming her head off and I get to the other side and see a bubble. I call for reinforcements and start crying. She is screaming and I can tell its painful, my heart just breaks. A few pushes later out slides a dark baby goat. Millie seems relived and I wipe its face off and mouth and clean some of the goo and Millie starts licking and grunting. We finally get the baby somewhat cleaned off and there is still a lot of goo hanging out her rear. It looks like a fluid filled sack, I think its the placenta. It takes a long time for that sac ( 2 hours) to hit the ground and then I can't find it. I make sure he's eating okay and go back in to warm up. At 11:00 I go out and she is eating a long cord that has the placenta attached to it. I get it and throw it in a hole my husband dug for me before he went to bed. It was a fun and adventuresome night and now I have the hard decision as to bottle feed or not. 

I did get some colostrum out, small teats but they flow really well. Here are the long awaited baby pictures. Throw all the advice my way. I need it. 



























Here is a picture of Millie's udder, how do I know the baby is eating? Last night I helped him attempt several times until his legs got more steady and he nursed on his own. I know he got the colostrum and nursed last night, but this morning he has really snoozing everytime I check on him. Her udder seems full, this is the only picture I could get without all the goo that is still there.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

CONGRATS!!  A gorgeous little dark buckskin.  Kids spend a lot of time sleeping the first week.  Generally they'll want to nurse after a nap, so when you wake him up to snuggle he should head over to mom for a snack.  You'll see him nurse for just a few seconds each time.  Glad your long awaited first kidding was textbook!


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## that's*satyrical

What a cute baby buckling!!  Congrats glad everyone's doing well.


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## 20kidsonhill

Congrats.


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## TTs Chicks

cute !


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## SDGsoap&dairy

If you decide you'd like to pull him keep in mind that the earlier you pull him the easier it will be to get him going on the bottle.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Since I have no "buyer" I believe I'm going to leave him with mom. I was there for the birth, Millie has really warmed up to me and currently I'm not having a problem with her. Millie was dam raised and was a little skiddish, but not wild. She let me milk out the colostrum with no problems at all. I can pick up the baby and snuggle it. So if I leave her and the baby together, how long do I keep them separated from the herd and when do I start "milking" her? I will eventually separate him at night and milk her in the AM. Since I'm still pretty new to the baby scene and she's a first freshener, I really like the "idea" of wiggle room.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

You can separate them overnight and milk first thing in the morning.  Some does will hold back and not let down completely when they have kids on them, but it will certainly lighten your work load and you'll still be able to get milk.  There is a great article over at DGI about raising kids this way- I will send you the link.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

How do I  clean up her tail and thighs. Warm wet towels? I almost want to take her inside and put her in the shower. She still has some "strings". I assume this is normal?


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## DonnaBelle

I don't think she'd appreciate a "shower" ...LOL

I clean up my does with a bucket of warm water and some warm washrags.  It's best to do it before it dries.

I have DH hold the front end, while I clean up the back.  Dry off with some clean towels too.

This is why giving them a pre-birth shave is a good idea.

DonnaBelle


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## SDGsoap&dairy

She will continue cleaning out for a couple weeks.  Her pre-kidding haircut is largely to keep her back end from getting too crusty.  I don't fuss too much with lochia- while it's particularly messy immediately after kidding they tend to stay pretty clean on their own.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

I attempted to milk Millie yesterday. She literally broke out of the milk stand. I have a PVC milk stand that I bought from a local 4-H group that shows Nigerians. You can take it apart to haul off to the shows. I think my husband is going to have to glue it and I need a pin to lock it. I did get 3/4 a cup last night and this morning. Milking her on the ground is not fun, my inner thighs are killing me. She gets really panicked when she can't see her baby. Not that he's crying or anything. I believe her udder looks great and I wish I could make her stay in the milk stand so I can get a picture of it. Need suggestions guys!! Thanks












Hiding under my milk stool


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## Pearce Pastures

Grab some 2x4s and a drill and remake that headpiece out of wood-it looks very much like what we have and it works well.

She will come around to being milked-she is just not used to it yet.  We have a very stubborn girl who was fine until we tried to milk her, which made her turn into Satan, kick, yell, sit down, try to jump off the stand with her neck still in the headpiece....sooooo much fun.  We kept at it and after two weeks, she was calling us to milk her out in the morning and would walk up on her own.  Quietly reassure and praise her, have someone help keep her calm, and things will turn around.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Well I know there will be days I want to just give up. I'm trying to ride this one out. I got 8 oz of milk this morning. I pulled the baby last night and he slept with my other bottle baby. He did not sleep in the house with the heat lamp, no he slept by the fence. I got him to take a few oz from the bottle before I put him back with his mom. They were very happy to be reunited. I felt like a meanie. 

















Skye is looking good. After my current experience with Millie, I believe I'm going to take a few days off work after Skye's baby is born and bottle feed it. Of course after the baby gets the colostrum. I just don't look forward to more small teats to try and coerce the milk out of. I did want goats for milk (I have to keep reminding myself)


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## that's*satyrical

Hang in there. After a while it gets easier. It probably took me 1/2 hour or more when I first started to milk Coco out & by the time she lost her milk I was able to do it in just a few minutes. This was over a 2-3 month period, but probably after about 2 weeks I was pretty quick. Is there a way to get her to and on the milk stand without her being able to see or hear the baby?


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

The baby was very quiet this morning, narry a peep! She was the one calling and calling. I had not issues with her standing still, it's like I can't get my fingers on those teats. I pinch and pinch and pinch, just little squirts.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

The picture they look big, but really my pinky is bigger. They are kind of long-ish but to me they are set too forward? They need to be more down and straight. It's like the teats aren't filling up or there is not enough milk to make them tight. I've had a doe in milk before, Annabell. I knew that my First Fresheners weren't going to be like hers. She was a dream to milk. Large, straight teats with wonderful capacity. But I believe this is not good at all. Will this improve?


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## that's*satyrical

Now Coco does have some nice large teats, but if you start the milking motion up kind of high like maybe even just a little above the teat & picture in your mind you pushing the milk downwards from there and out through the hole kind of like pushing icing out of a tube but a bit more gently. Try that & see if it helps. Once you get the hang of it, it's way easier. It may not happen right away it takes a little bit for the milk to "come down" so be patient for that. Once you get a steady flow going though you can tell the difference.


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## that's*satyrical

Sorry I didn't see your post we must have posted at the same time lol.  I don't know if I can help then. In fact, I may have the same problem with Enya since her teats are considerably smaller than Coco's.


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## Queen Mum

The longer you milk the goat, the bigger the teats will get.  It takes time.


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## Zanzabeez

Congrats on your new kid!   He is adorable.

Your doe's teats should improve and get larger/thicker as you milk her through the season. Just keep at it and don't give up, the longer you milk her the better her teats should become. 

I milk my ND and had 3 FF that I milked last season so maybe I can offer a tip that would help you out? When you are milking, are you pinching with a couple of fingers or using your hand to milk more like you would with a larger breed goat? I milk my girls using the same hand motion as I would a large breed goat, closing off a ring at the top with pointer and thumb and then closing the rest of my fingers. I just use less fingers depending on teat size.  It works best if you sort of push your hand up against the udder at the base of the teat before closing your finger ring. It seems to help the milk flow into the teat better that way. I also found that my girls milk out more quickly if I reach the near hand through from between the back legs since it helps me push up against the udder better.

Does can hold back milk from you and it does sound like your doe is probably doing this since the teats are not filling well. So she needs some help with letting down for you. You can use the side of your hand/thumb to bump or massage the udder to help get her to let down her milk. Bump like you are a kid asking for milk to let down, not too hard but firm enough to push up into her udder. You can also massage the udder itself to help get things flowing. One of my FF last year did the same thing. She would try to hold back milk but with massaging and bumping her udder, she would eventually let down. After milking her for about a month, she started to let down as soon as I would start to milk and would milk out very quickly. Don't give up, you will get there!  

Tracy


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Thanks Tracy. I did figure out that she was not letting her milk down. I put the kid on the stand and gosh I got a pint of milk in no time. I just have to be patient and have the kid there with me. I need a goat baby backpack or frontpack, lol. That way he's there and not in my way. 

Skye kidded Sunday morning, I promise pictures tomorrow, it's been a crazy weekend.

ETA: Another blue-eyed buckling.


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## 3kidsmom

She looks well loved to me.  The gestation for a goat is about 5months.  I can hardly wait to get some more goats!!  I miss having them.


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## Zanzabeez

Melissa'sDreamFarm said:
			
		

> Thanks Tracy. I did figure out that she was not letting her milk down. I put the kid on the stand and gosh I got a pint of milk in no time. I just have to be patient and have the kid there with me. I need a goat baby backpack or frontpack, lol. That way he's there and not in my way.
> 
> Skye kidded Sunday morning, I promise pictures tomorrow, it's been a crazy weekend.
> 
> ETA: Another blue-eyed buckling.


Great!!!! I am glad to hear she is letting down for you nicely now! 

Congrats on another healthy kid too! I am looking forward to pics. I need another kid fix..... 


Sigh, all of these kidding threads make it harder to wait for the 1st of my girls to go. 14 days until day 140.... Can't wait!!!


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Finally got a new phone and some pictures to share. The first one is of Jenny, my boar goat. She was given to me by a friend who strictly dam raises. Jenny is quite skiddish. I am the only one who can touch her and she will eat out of my hand. She had her baby this morning when I went out to milk. She's in the shelter that holds the hay box. I could not get her to come out and she did not want me messing with her baby. I got "shown the horns" every time I tried to touch the baby. She would lick my fingers but no touching the baby. So I guess they will be fine in there. It's no where near the water bucket, so I brought her a small pail of water and a bowl of grain and went off to work. 

When I say "shown the horns", she tucks her chin to her chest and puts her horns up. She never butts me or hits me. It's more a posture thing and tells you to back off. 

Jenny, you can only see an extra leg under there. I'll get more pictures this afternoon. It's a muddy mess in my neck of the woods and I had my work clothes on by the time the sun came up and the baby was standing up nursing. The baby's mom is boar/nubian mix and the dad is a Dwarf Nigerian.






Annabell supervising my handiwork.





Skye and her baby boy Junior.





Millie and her boy Jose Cuervo running away, of course.





Baby boys playing. Dawson is getting big.





And my favorite picture of the weekend, my son Tyler and my "baby" Butter. If you wash the blankets on the couch and fold them up and fix it really nice, I can guarantee this will happen....


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## Queen Mum

I'm going to sound all lecturey.  Please don't take it personally.   It's a question of safety for you and your goats.

Her protectiveness is OK to a point, but your "bossiness" is necessary for the health of your herd.  Giving shots, trimming hooves, checking bottoms, milking, whatever you need to do, she should NEVER be allowed to intimidate you for HER safety and for yours.  

Don't let her "show you the horns".  When she does you need to tell her that you aren't going to hurt her baby.  FIRMLY,  nudge her aside and pick it up and inspect her baby.  PERIOD.  You are the queen goat.  And she needs to know that you won't hurt her baby.  That way you can handle her and her baby when you need to.  

IF she gets testy, FIRMLY nudge her aside again.  And keep nudging her aside firmly until she gets the idea that you won't hurt her or her baby and that you are IN CHARGE around the farm.  She will understand that.  She knows where her food comes from and she really, deep down, trusts you.  She knows internally that you are her caretaker.  But when you back away from her she is confused about her safety and is not sure who her protector is.


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## Mamaboid

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> I'm going to sound all lecturey.  Please don't take it personally.   It's a question of safety for you and your goats.
> 
> Her protectiveness is OK to a point, but your "bossiness" is necessary for the health of your herd.  Giving shots, trimming hooves, checking bottoms, milking, whatever you need to do, she should NEVER be allowed to intimidate you for HER safety and for yours.
> 
> Don't let her "show you the horns".  When she does you need to tell her that you aren't going to hurt her baby.  FIRMLY,  nudge her aside and pick it up and inspect her baby.  PERIOD.  You are the queen goat.  And she needs to know that you won't hurt her baby.  That way you can handle her and her baby when you need to.
> 
> IF she gets testy, FIRMLY nudge her aside again.  And keep nudging her aside firmly until she gets the idea that you won't hurt her or her baby and that you are IN CHARGE around the farm.  She will understand that.  She knows where her food comes from and she really, deep down, trusts you.  She knows internally that you are her caretaker.  But when you back away from her she is confused about her safety and is not sure who her protector is.


Thank you QM, I was sitting here trying to figure out how to word exactly the same thing without sounding bad or hurting anyone's feelings.  You just cannot tolerate this from your goats.  You must show them who is boss, or they will be boss. This doesn't mean being nasty to them as QM said, it just means being firm, and letting them know that you WILL handle the situation whatever it is.  

Now, on to those really pretty goats and that adorable child and pup.  Great pics and congrats on the new baby.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Thanks for your advice, but my personal safety comes first. I have to wait until my husband is at home to help me. In case I need to be rushed to the ER.


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## Queen Mum

Melissa'sDreamFarm said:
			
		

> Thanks for your advice, but my personal safety comes first. I have to wait until my husband is at home to help me. In case I need to be rushed to the ER.


tee hee.  She really won't head butt you.  She put her head down like all goats do.  She was giving you the look. But point of fact, she would in all likely hood have not touched you.  That is why you need to firmly nudge her aside.  Because you need her to know that you won't take that from her.  It sets the precedent.  Goats are only really dangerous when they get up on their little hind legs and "stand up tall".  Or when they back up with their heads way down low.  Then you just need to step in and put your hand on her shoulder and nudge her aside firmly.  

You are safe doing that.  Do it with confidence.  You would be really surprised how well it works.  It's a confidence thing.  When you are afraid, you make her afraid.  Just swallow your fear and be confident.  Just remember you LOVE her.  And she loves you.

BTW, just because men are bigger doesn't make them tougher.  Just watch 10 guys trying to change  poopy diapers and you will see just how tough guys REALLY are.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

That made me laugh. She always moves off to my touch on her shoulder. I was just so excited this morning and didn't think to challenge her. My husband is leaving work now to go get her baby and make her go to the kidding stall. She has never butted me or even acted like she would. I like your term "the look" and that is exactly what it was. Good advice taken, thanks Queen Mum.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Here are pictures of Jenny and her baby. It's a girl and she has beautiful blue eyes. She is a nubian/boer/nigerian mix and cute as a bugs ear. Jenny got on the milk stand for me and let me milk her. Wonderful udder and teats. 

ETA: No problems holding the baby or getting the baby. She does try to get me to put the baby down by nudging my hand down with her chin, but will lick my hand while I held her baby.


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## KinderKorner

Your goats are so cute! Congratz on the babies.

I just read your entire journal because I'm on kidding watch for my doe and I'm about to go crazy waiting. 

I did want to mention something. You keep commenting on how your dam raised goats are wild. But not all of them at like that.

Most all of my herd with the exception of 1 goat I have right now was dam raised and they are as friendly as they can get. I mean you can't even get in the gate cause they are wanting to be close to you. Although it's true bottle babies are naturally less shy. If someone puts the effort into socializing dam raised babies they can be just as friendly. Everyone comments on how my goats are some of the most people loving they have seen. And I honestly can't tell a difference in my bottle babies and dam raised babies. But I spend a lot of time with my herd.

Just wanted to let you know that just because their dam raised doesn't automatically make them wild. lol

I need to have someone take a picture of my herd. If I go in there and sit down, I have 10 full grown does trying to all fit in my lap.


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm

Cerina had her babies last night, two doelings. I believe I want to bottle feed these girls. I let my other three raised their kids, I learned a lot with that. Where it's nice to be able to skip some milkings by leaving the babies out with their moms, it does have its down side. 

So take a look at our new additions and give me some bottle feeding advice. I want to leave them on her at least today for the colostrum, but when do ya'll pull them and how often do you feed them?

Thanks, Melissa

Additional info: Cerina is a mini-nubian and the babies daddy was a Nigerian Dwarf. Babies will be available.


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