# Yet another newbie wondering which LGD



## cindyg (Jul 25, 2013)

I am seriously considering an LGD.  I have goats and chickens, barn cats and a little yappy house dog.  And recently, a fox has been helping himself to the chicken buffet.  We are only on a few acres, so it's more like a really big back yard, fenced off from the rest of the yard where we have the gardens.  What I want is something to keep the fox and whatever else might pass by (coyotes are regularly seen around here)  away during the day as the chickens free range and I really don't want them to have to stop.  I do close them and the goats up at night.  I live on the east coast of Canada, but in the Annapolis Valley of NS so it does get hot in the summer, not temps like the Southern US though and not for extended periods of time.  Mostly what I'm seeing around here are GP or GP/Maremma crosses.  There is a breeder of Kangal dogs in Cape Breton, but I fear they would be too costly for me.  I am home most days, and can devote some time to training, once I find out how to do that, but really would appreciate advice.  Do I get a puppy?  Do I look for an older dog.  I do know I want one from working parents, and preferably being raised with stock now.  My neighbours have a GP but she is a house dog, and quite nervous, is that just her?  Also, do you leave them intact or have them spayed/neutered?  I have always had my animals fixed, except now for the breeding goats so have no idea how to deal with a dog in heat/rut.  Male versus female?  Have read that females are fiercer?  Males more easy going, is that so, or does that also depend on the particular dog.  I want to do this right, my DH is not convinced we need yet another pet, but then, LGD's are not really pets are they?  More a working part of the property?  Do you start a new puppy right off sleeping in the barn or does that only happen later.  So much to learn, and I know that I will be losing chickens on an ongoing basis till I get this figured out.  Thanks for any advice.


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## Southern by choice (Jul 25, 2013)

There are many many pages written  on all your q's. LOL
If you have time scroll through... pages 1-4 have a lot of advice and recommendations.

This thread was one I remembered  http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=23659&p=1

But there really are so many!

A lot of reading but well worth the time.

This is an overview of how I raise my LGD pups and recommend to other that have small farms and are family integrated.
http://www.winginitfarms.com/about-our-lgd-s


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## cindyg (Aug 4, 2013)

Still wanting and needing a LGD, darn fox has taken most of my chickens!!  My choice of dog may be severely limited by what is available around here, some folks have them but are not breeding.  What do you think of a GP/Bernese Mountain cross?  Would really like an Anatolian but very scarce and likely more money than I can manage just now.  All advice/info welcome.  Thanks.


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## woodsie (Aug 4, 2013)

if you want a working dog it is worth getting one from working LGD parents. I totally understand the panic when you are getting cleaned out by a predator but remember that you will have this dog for 10-15 years and you want to make sure you get a good one that is going to do its job and not br a liability or just a big pet. You are asking them to do a specific job and I personally wouldn't take the chance with a non-LGD cross...you might luck out and get the LGD genes but you may not. I think a Bern/Pyr cross is probably adorable but from my research a Bern does not have much guarding instinct and also can have a TON of health issues....I'd be careful before jump in and hope for the best. 

Sometimes shipping a pup might not be as much as you would expect...shipping an adult is a different story however. Often Sask and AB have working Pyrs for sale for a reasonable price and if you can get someone to ship it might be still a cheaper option. We are going to have a unreg Pyr litter in the beginning of Sept, both parents work together and live full-time with goats and sheep and free-range chickens. We are asking $700 per pup and I will only let them go to appropriate working homes, prices in BC tend to be much higher than the prairies however and shipping would be more too. 

Best of luck in finding you LGD - They are remarkable dogs.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 4, 2013)

I would also add that a pup cannot do anything and will also need protection. By 1 year your pup should be able to handle a situation yet will still be maturing for another year. If you can and you have the space teams are best. I prefer M/F teams.
NOT siblings if you can help it... M/F siblings aren't as big a deal as same sex siblings... that I would not recommend. (Meaning from same litter)

A pup may be priced better but a mature trained dog is very worthwhile. In the end you would be paying for the feed, healthcare, training, loss of poultry etc during the raising/training process.
Starting with pup price and *adding a minimum of $150 per month* for a trained one year old is better in many situations. Many people are in shock to see a price of $2000+ for a 1 yr old trained animal but there is much that goes into it and it will cost you that by the end of one year just by you raising and training it.

Lgd's really are a worthwhile investment. I wouldn't have livestock without them.

Pricing does vary by region.... here in NC you can find Pyrs (papered- not that means a thing in LGD's) starting at $300... average price is $450. Of course these are breeders that sell at 8wks and do no assessment or training whatsoever.


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## Grazer (Aug 4, 2013)

Agreed with the 2 posts above.
Bernese Mountain dogs have tons of serious health problems (including cancer in some lines) and I always advice against LGD x non-LGD mixes. 
You will probably end up with a dog that doesn't have the right guardian instincts or physical capability to deal with predators. 
So that would be a huge waste of money IMO.

Being that you are suffering a lot of losses from foxes and possible other predators right now, you can also either look if someone is re-homing an adult LGD (but make sure that LGD is great with poultry and is being re-homed only because the owner doesn't needs that many dogs or is moving back to the city etc, as long as they are not re-homing him/her cause he/she is killing poultry/livestock), or to look for a slightly older pup.
Like 4-5 months old. That way the pup can already be big/impressive enough to intimidate fox and other smaller predators.
A lot of times breeders don't mind meeting the buyer half way, so perhaps that can be a solution if shipping a puppy would be too costly. 
I also always advice to only look for a puppy from proven, working parents.


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## cindyg (Aug 4, 2013)

Tks all for this advice.  I had already decided against a LGD/non LGD cross, but didn't actually realize Bernese were not LGD.  LGD x LGD would be ok though wouldn't it.  I think I have a line on GP x Maremma  I also thought that I needed to get a puppy for him/her to bond with us and my livestock but it sounds like an adult dog could transfer his/her loyalty to us? I've pretty much resigned myself to having to start a new flock and wasn't thinking a pup would immediately begin to guard.  Good point on the cost of an already trained dog, SBC, do you train dogs for sale as adults?  Would be so interested to explore THAT possibility!  Have put out a few feelers so will wait to see what happens.  I only have a few acres so don't think I will need a team, unless of course they happen to fall into my lap,


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## Robbin (Aug 6, 2013)

Kangals and Anatolians are the same animal according to the AKC.   Cost vary wildly based on breeder and location.  Im wild about my Toli.  But you can't expect some loses to the puppy.  They play rough and you must never allow them to play with anything you don't want hurt.  Their size and speed quickly becomes dangerous.  I thougt the play was Cute at 8 weeks.  At 5 months, 88lbs and scary fast, I'm doing everthing I can to stop the playing.....   The cats use to tease him into chasing them.  Now he hurts them by stepping on them when he catches them.   I've almost broke him of it.  I've only lost one turkey so far.


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