# building my 1st hobby barn. Suggestions requested!



## forester7 (Oct 17, 2016)

Hi all. I am planning to build a hobby barn/machine shed.  Basically I want to have a pole barn shed for hay and machinery with a lenter on the back for animals, because I am told this would be the most money-efficient design (as apposed to a loft barn). The animal section on the back would have to be 14 feet wide due to the design and my location. I just don't know how long I would have to make it (and the machine shed with it) to keep the animals I want. I am trying to figure out how much space I will need for 6 head of cattle tied in stanchions, a 10x12 calving pen/pig pen, and an area for 12 chickens and 12 meat kings. Fitting in the cattle will be the biggest trick. I want a 4 foot walkway down one side which only leaves 10 feet more.... too short to run cattle head to rear and allow room on each end to muck out and feed. My question is... what dimensions does each cattle stall need to be to keep them in stanchions?

I was originally planning on going with a 40' x 30' pole barn with 40'x14' lenter on back for animals, but I think I would have to go longer (maybe 60') than 40' to house all those animals and hay and have room for a few machines as well?

Any thought out there?


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## Bossroo (Oct 17, 2016)

Where are you located ?  What is your weather like, wind direction,  your topography, soil types, availability of power, etc.  Keeping machinery and metals in the same building with livestock is problematic because the ammonia from urine and feces, then the moisture from their resperation is a recipe for excelerated corrosion and rusting on metal equipment, tools, etc..   Why do you want to keep cattle tied in stanchions  as that would be labor intensive ?


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## forester7 (Oct 17, 2016)

The machinery part would be separated from the lenter holding animals by a boarded wall. maybe that would not prevent corrosion of the machinery? I never thought about the corrosion issue! I am located in New Brunswick, Canada where we can get cold winters, and very wet springs and falls. I am thinking of keeping them indoors in the winter because of the cold and mud (don't want my pastures chewed up). I was thinking stachions because I thought pens would be harder to muck out with shovels with cattle running around, and I didn't want to go so big as to allow for a tractor to go in to clean it out. Am I out to lunch on this?


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## Baymule (Oct 17, 2016)

I went looking and found these.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mwps_dis/mwps_web/ut_plans.html#Anchor72057

http://myoutdoorplans.com/shed/free-pole-barn-plans/

http://www.heartlandpermacolumn.com/products/free-post-frame-building-plans/

What about a barn for the animals and a barn for the equipment?


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## Baymule (Oct 17, 2016)

Why would you keep your cattle tied? Why not just dedicate a corral for winter with an open run shelter for them to access as they see fit? Give them a round bale and let them decide if they want shelter or the open. In the spring, move them to pasture and muck out the corral and spread on pasture or make a compost pile. Oh, you mentioned pigs. Let the pigs root it up for you and loosen the packed poop, straw or bedding for you.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 17, 2016)

X2 pigerator! Put some corn in,  let the pigs in and they'll make compost for you. 

I don't know much about cattle but most animals enjoy going outside in all seasons so they  might choose to be outside if given the chance.  Just make sure there's drainage so their outside pen doesn't get muddy.  I wouldn't tie them. That's just me. 

How cold does it get up there? We get down to - 20 without wind chill on occasion and my goats are often  outside as long as it isn't raining or too windy.


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## Bruce (Oct 17, 2016)

I'm with @Baymule. Leaving the cattle tied to stanchions 24x7 is pure cruelty.

Whatever you build won't be big enough, there is ALWAYS something else to put in a barn! 

For the chickens you will need something that is predator proof at night with a minimum of 1' of roost per bird. 4 or 5 nest boxes are plenty for 12 layers. During the day they should have a minimum of 10 sq ft/bird. With 24 birds, that is about 40% of the space you have listed for the animals in a 40'x14' building assuming the coop is part of that area and is accessible during the day.


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## forester7 (Oct 17, 2016)

Many beef farmers around here keep beef cattle indoors in stanchions, and it was the only way it used to be done here. There must be a reason? Certainly it would help keep a barn warm enough to keep water lines/bowls from freezing. I hava  square baler too, which makes feeding outdoors a bit more tedious (and cold)!

As for separate barns for machines and animals... it would be much more expensive I would think?

How cold does it get here? I've seen it get to -35 or -40 celcius (-35F) 

I am enjoying all the thoughts! Pleas keep them coming!


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## Baymule (Oct 17, 2016)

WAY too cold for me! LOL! We think 20*F is COLD!


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## Bruce (Oct 17, 2016)

That's pretty cold! Definitely want a 3 sided shelter open on the leeward side for the cattle if you don't lock them inside. I'm not a member of PETA nor do I generally subscribe to their philosophy but I really couldn't restrict an animal that way. Eat, stand, poop, sleep all in the same small area every day of their lives?  They might CHOOSE to stay inside on really cold or windy days, my chickens do. Don't know about the 2 alpacas, I just got them 8 days ago. So far they haven't chosen to sleep in the barn. They had frost on their backs the other morning but we've only just started to go below freezing some nights.

I see no reason why your plan of a wooden wall separating the machine side of the barn from the animal side wouldn't work. And you could always add on the the ends of the barn as needed when you find you have run out of space as long as you leave room for that.

@Baymule +20F IS cold in SE Texas! We sometimes get that high in December, January and February but not often.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 17, 2016)

Yeah it's cold! Frozen pipes and all! 

I don't know about "warm"  barns and keeping  water from freezing. Our water just freezes and we smash the ice out. I do know that you don't want to close up the barn too tight or they'll end up with respiratory issues. I also have been in my in-laws horse barn in winter and boy do those horses keep it warm with their body heat! 

You can feed and water inside but give them access to inside and outside,  then lock them out if you need to clean up.  I just would never tie up an animal.  Sorry,  the people who do may have reasons but I don't think they're good ones.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 17, 2016)

There use to be someone on here a few years back... he lives in Canada not far from Niagra Falls. He raised all pastured meat. Cattle, sheep, chicken, turkeys, ducks. Oh yeah and pigs too.
His are out year round, they have access to shelter as they want it but don't use it much.

I have never heard of raising cattle tied. 
It may be how it's been done but doesn't mean it should be. 
A few others I know from Canada had family that raised or still raises cattle... never heard them say they were raised in stanchions or stalls... they all ranged.
This is very interesting. 

I don't  have heavy equipment so no advice o it but we are in a cattle county. All the cattle farmers here have their equipment in a different barn. Never saw a barn with livestock and equipment in it.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 17, 2016)

The cattle farms around here have 3 sided buildings and they can come and go as they please. 

My husband just said it's a major fire hazard to have equipment in the same barn as the animals,  particularly if you also store your hay there.  And like @Bossroo said it will cause your equipment to rust out faster. I don't think it should make a huge financial difference to have 2 smaller buildings rather than one large one.


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## forester7 (Oct 18, 2016)

I am amazed at how many people find the use of stanchions odd! Here in New Brunswick, Canada everyone kept cattle that way years ago. Today most farmers still do (beef AND dairy). Tying in stanchions November-April isn't ideal, but I am not sure I am convinced yet that having cattle turn my pasture into a mud pit spring and fall, and out in temperatures down as low as -35F in the wintertime is a better option. Anyone out there at all that prefers the stanchion option?


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## Bossroo (Oct 18, 2016)

The only times that I have seen cattle tied to feed troughs  were in county fairs where show cattle are housed that way with deep straw to lay down in and an attendant there at all times ( they have cots and chairs, grooming and cleaning equipment  to stay with/ near  the cattle )  to cater to their every need  around the clock.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 18, 2016)

I've seem dairy cows tied but only at big operations.


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## Latestarter (Oct 18, 2016)

Greetings and welcome to BYH  Aside from the discussion on stanchions... as for the size of space required it would depend a lot, I think, on what breed of cow you'll be housing. I've never personally heard of folks tying their cows to a post for months at a time...  Not pro or con, just new to me (as are many things regarding animal husbandry since I'm a beginner). Can you talk to some of the folks up there who are doing what you want to do? May be they could provide some guidance/ideas? I mean, if they're already doing it... no sense re-inventing the wheel...

Most of the ranches/farms that I've ever been around/by/past that had cows, they were outside year round. This includes New England, Florida, Colorado, and eastern VA. Even in the coldest weather, the cows would just lay down out in the fields and chew cud. If it was blowing hard or wet or both, they'd seek shelter under trees, or behind a wind break, but I've rarely seen them seek or go inside the/a barn... Unless of course they were dairy and needed milking...

There were/are typically multiple pastures and the animals were/are rotated around through them. If you're concerned about them tearing up an area during the mud season, can you just limit the size of that pasture to a minimum and then once mud season is past, move them out of it to clean it up/re-seed/re-grow? Or as others have said, turn that area into your new piggery and let them till the area up for you? Since you're only talking a 1/2 dozen cows, I would think an acre dry lot for them would be more than adequate for a couple of months. It would be a dry lot scenario and of course you'll need to feed them while they're there, adding to your expense, but you'd need to feed them in a stanchion situation as well. Just build them a wind wall/lean to or run-in shelter, so they can get out of blowing weather and they should be fine.

As for the equipment housing and hay, can you purchase those quick install, carport type buildings to cover it? What will you be keeping inside the barn you'll be building, that you want to keep the hay and machinery outside it? I have to admit I'm going through the same deliberations here on barn design as I just bought my new place here and need to build a structure for many of the same reasons as you... hay, machines, animals, etc.

Hope you'll keep with us here and share some pics as you progress! I'm sure many would love to follow along with your decisions and progress! Glad you joined and look forward to reading/seeing more going forward!


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## forester7 (Oct 18, 2016)

Hi Latestarter: I am asking about keeping the machinery outside the barn as some here have suggested the ammonia and moisture will accelerate rusting.


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## Bruce (Oct 18, 2016)

I think I would be more concerned with @NH homesteader 's comment about fires in the the machine shed. Never thought of that. Then there is the issue of hay fires, almost sounds like a person could use THREE buildings far enough apart that if one burned the others would be safe. Talk about inconvenience!

My hay for the alpacas is in the drive bay in the big part of the barn as is the garden tractor. The 12 chickens and 2 alpacas (except they don't go in the barn often at all) are in the lower shed portion. There is a short door between the drive bay and the "feed room" below which is directly next to the horse stall converted to a chicken coop. So I am clearly not very secure should something catch on fire.  that never happens!


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