# Large Lamb Syndrome?



## trampledbygeese (Apr 5, 2015)

Out of the four ewes who have 'hatched' so far this lambing season, I've had to assist 3 give birth.  The problem being the lambs are far too big.  Big head, big shoulders, and big overall.

Two of the ewes are first timers, so it's understandable that they may have trouble.  But even still, this seems like a high amount of assistance.

*So, what can I do better for next year?  What causes large lamb syndrome?  *

These ewes are divided into two flocks.  Both flocks have basic sheep minerals loose and block, added Se, salt, cobalt salt and kelp.  Se being the main deficiency here.  A mix of hay and pasture.  About 1/2 cup of grain per animal per day.

The first flock being the pure bred, 3 plus years old, Katahdin ewes (experienced mums) bread to an unknown small breed wooly ram.  I only had to assist one of these as her second twin came out backwards and sadly I waited too long and it died.  But both the lambs were tremendous size.  An example, at 4 weeks old, the surviving ewe lamb was over 60 pounds.

The other flock is 2 year old, Black Welsh Mountain and Black Welsh Mountain x Southdown ewes (all first timers), bred to a small Icelandic ram.  Both the girls who have given birth so far needed assistance, the first had a lamb with too large a head, the second with two large shoulders.  The second ewe was 20 hours in labour, although a little over two hours were actual hard labour.  Hers was a single.   Two more in this flock waiting to pop.

If it was just one or the other flock with problems, I would say I chose the wrong ram pairing (or didn't choose in the case of the Katahdins - but that's a story for another day).  If I chose a ram that made big lambs, then I could definitely blame my ram choice.

So I can't blame it on my ram.

Can I blame it on the ewes?  Probably not, as they are different breeds and different levels of experience.

Is it my nutrition?

Is it my minerals?

I'm not willing to blame luck of the draw, because so much to do with sheep health is all about nutritional management.

How do I make it better for next year?

Your thoughts are much appreciated.


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## SheepGirl (Apr 6, 2015)

What is the nutritional composition of the grain? What cutting of what species of hay are tou feeding?


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## trampledbygeese (Apr 6, 2015)

It's sheep text mixed with some flatted barley.  The company has a pdf of their product here.


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## Sheepshape (Apr 11, 2015)

For first timers it is best to watch how much supplement is given in  the last 6 weeks or the lambs can be too large for unassisted birth. Usually there is less problems with older ewes who have had lambs before.

How much supplement were they getting?


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## trampledbygeese (Apr 11, 2015)

That's good to know about supplements for first timers.

Just wondering, by supplements do you mean the grain or the minerals?  

This is how I've been doing it so far:

The grain I give about the last month of pregnancy until the lambs are weaned and the ewes are obviously gaining their weight back.  Usually I take a week or two to work up to my full serving of grain which is about half a cup per animal per day.   It's no where near as much as the grain company or sheep books recommend, but I'm not a huge fan of giving grain.  Given the sheep are between 100 and 250 pounds, if I followed the instructions I would be giving half a pound to two and a half pounds of grain per day per animal.  So hopefully half a cup isn't too much.  Maybe I'm not giving enough?

For the minerals, I give free choice.  They don't consume a lot of minerals on the whole, not as much as the books say they should.  For 5 to 10 sheep, they very slowly worry away at the mineral block.  I change the block every 6 months, not because they ate it, but because it looks weather worn.  Even under cover.  That's why I include the loose minerals as well.

As for hay, I don't change the quality of the hay during the year.  Maybe I should be?


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## Sheepshape (Apr 11, 2015)

It doesn't sound as though you were or are feeding them too much. Grain and other carbohydrate and protein-rich foods are the usual culprit....the minerals can be given ad lib.

I tend to be very liberal with food during lactation as it takes a lot out of the ewe. especially if they have large twins.

Maybe your hay is super-high in nourishment!


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## trampledbygeese (Apr 12, 2015)

I'm not certain if I should admit this or not, given that the internet is forever.  But if I want to know what the problem is, I have to be honest about what I feed them.

If anything my hay is a bit under-nourished. 

To start with, the hay in our area is extremely poor.  The mineral profile in the soil isn't awesome, made worse by the fact that irrigation is needed all summer long.  What's more, a good many local haymakers believe that hay is just long lawn, so they don't seed and aren't careful about what weeds go into the hay.

I buy a pretty high roughage hay as the llamas and alpacas are the most sensitive to their diet.  High in roughage but easy to chew (my llamas and alpacas are old, rescues, with dental issues), low in nitrogen plants.  Since the llamas came first, all the other grass munchers inherited the same style of hay. 

In my defence for feeding the sheep such poor hay is that (excepting the hairsheep) I choose older breeds which are suppose to have a broader nutritional tolerance and they haven't complained about the hay.

On occasion, if someone is showing signs of decline, I may buy a bail of timothy or orchard grass to mix in with their regular hay - maybe up to 20% of their daily - But this is maybe once or twice a year, not often.

I don't _think _this is overfeeding them... but you know, I could be wrong.  The books and other farmers all have their opinions on what to feed and how much, some feed none but timothy all winter, others nothing but a small worn out pasture year round.  It's very hard to choose which advice to follow.  I think I'm doing something wrong this year, so it's time to try a different style of caring for them.


Talking with others in our area and difficult births seems to be higher overall this year.  Some are suggesting that the weather has an influence on this, but it hasn't been hard weather.  If anything, a little mild. 

The only other common denominator is that those of us with troublesome births have been buying regular hay, the one who buys organic has had no problems.  Pat Coleby in Natural Sheep Care says that certain fertilizers can reduce the uptake of nutrients in sheep - maybe something different about the way the hay was grown this year?  I have some more reading to do.


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