# Buying Katahdins, small ewes



## Reindeermama (Aug 17, 2018)

A breeder that is local, and has registered and commercial Katahdins is offering to sell me ewes that might have been breed. He is offering them at a discounted rate because he said he bought them from good bloodlines, but the breeder he bought them from weaned them at 45 days, and he wasn't thinking, and just threw them in with his regular lambs. He says because of this they didn't get the feed they really needed, and are stunted. He said most likely they are pregnant, and he can show us the papers on the good bloodlines they are from. Is this a good deal? Will the lambs be stunted? The ram that bred them is a really nice registered ram too. Will they produce good lambs we could build up our stock from? Or is this a deal we shouldn't do? Any advice would be appreciated. We are just now getting into sheep. I have been trying to read up on them, and have bought several books.(but there is nothing like advice from people that have sheep)


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## Latestarter (Aug 17, 2018)

IMHO, since you are just starting, you could take advantage of this "good deal" if you want. The biggest question would be if you are expecting/wanting registered stock or want to register their lambs when born. Just showing you their parent's  or grand parent's papers doesn't mean THEY are registered. If they were stunted from lack of feed during their growth period, it would be a physical effect on them and not a genetic issue. As long as they are big enough to carry and birth live lambs, their offspring should be a product of the genetics of both parents, IOW, normal sized. 

May just be me, but if the seller KNEW that:


Reindeermama said:


> he said he bought them from good bloodlines, but the breeder he bought them from weaned them at 45 days, and he wasn't thinking, and just threw them in with his regular lambs. He says because of this they didn't get the feed they really needed, and are stunted.


 Then why did he buy them anyway, and now wants to sell them?   Just seems a little "off base" to me.


How old are these sheep? If they are first fresheners, their stunting may not be permanent and they may be able to grow to almost normal size with proper nutrition. If they've already freshened before and are on 2nd or beyond, the stunting is probably permanent. Regardless of all that, as you become more involved with sheep, these can either be sold, or sent to freezer camp to provide for the family meat. Bottom line I guess is it all depends on what your end goal is with sheep in general and this batch specifically.


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## Reindeermama (Aug 17, 2018)

They are registered, but he wanted me to know he bought them from another breeder. He has the papers. He said he should have put them in another pen instead of putting them in with his regular lambs he had. He said he usually doesn't wean that young, and then when he was realizing that they weren't growing as well, he got to thinking about why. He assumes the other breeder weaning at 45 days is why. His ram is registered too. He just wanted to be honest he said, and tell me these were stunted, and because of that he would make me a better deal on them, and that they had good bloodlines that should make for good lambs. He said these will be first time Moms. He has a ram lamb I like from another bloodline. He has a huge book of registration papers, and looks them up, and  he has them penned separately. I wanted to make sure I could get some ewes that I could keep the babies on to build up a herd, and not worry about breeding back to the daddy. He also said that when I might get to that point, He would help me sell my ram lamb, and introduce a unrelated ram, so I wouldn't have problems with genetics. I am so green on this, I just wanted to make sure when he said the lambs would be okay he was right. I am a little leery of deals. (I got taken buying donkeys that were supposedly livestock guardians) I can be a little gullible, and well I fall in the love with the animals, and don't think anything, but how cute. So this time I thought I should be more careful. I do appreciate your advice, and that is why I was seeking advice. I just want a starter herd to get my feet wet with. We were going to sell the babies for meat locally. We kept getting asked if we know anyone that has lamb, so I thought hmmm...sounds like opportunity. I like lamb too, so I though win, win, some for us to eat, and some to sell. I thought if I got registered lambs, later on if I expanded I might could also sell for people wanting to start their own small flocks as well. Again, thank you for answering. It really helps to have someone objective to bring up these things with.


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## farmerjan (Aug 17, 2018)

If they are stunted due to poor/lack of nutrition then it will not be something that will affect the lambs genetically.   The only concern that I see is with you being admittedly new with sheep, is if they have some problems with lambing and them being small.  But other than that I think it is a good deal.  Get the papers, and all that you need to register the lambs and you will have a start in registered stock.  When you grow out the lambs, just watch to make sure that they are getting good growth.  If this strain that he got; and is selling, is smaller, then you may want to rethink it in the future.

I had a heifer that got bred too young, and she is and will continue to be small all her life.  But her calves are fine, grow normal size, and often surpass her in height by the time they are weaned.  That particular family is very fertile, that is how she got bred before she was weaned off her dam.  It is no reflection on her abilities except we don't use a bull that produces very large calves. 
With sheep, and multiple babies, once they get the first one on the ground, it shouldn't be of much concern.


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## Reindeermama (Aug 17, 2018)

Thank you so much. The advice is making my decision much clearer. I


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## BreanneRN (Aug 17, 2018)

Well, I think I would go for it, but I would be prepared to be keeping feed in front of them 24-7 to try to make up for their poor start in life, especially if they turn out to be pregnant, they are going to need a lot of nutritional support...  If they don't get it, things can go bad, toxemia, aborting, or just getting to the end of the pregnancy without enough weight to produce milk... which means having to bottlefeed lambs, a time consuming and expensive proposition.  Oh, and make sure you get those papers when you get the sheep...


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 18, 2018)

Just make sure tail not docked too short.    They need to be no shorter than a goat's.


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## BreanneRN (Aug 18, 2018)

Donna R. Raybon said:


> Just make sure tail not docked too short.    They need to be no shorter than a goat's.


Katahdins are hair sheep and should not have their tails docked at all.  It is unnecessary, though I guess some do it, but I always wonder why, as there is no benefit from it, and stress, pain, and potential for prolapse if done too short.


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## Mike CHS (Aug 18, 2018)

It sounds like this farm registers every lamb that can be registered.  I don't know what his line of sheep looks like but it sounds like you are buying culls (registered or not).  Some are slow gainers and the early weaning didn't help but I wasn't sure from your post if these girls are already bred???  If they are keep an eye on their condition because you can over feed them.  You want them in good condition but not fat, especially if bred.

We have one ewe that was a runt when born and we almost didn't breed her last cycle because of her size.  Turned out when we weighed her that she met our minimum weight and this year is right at 130 pounds which is the low side of our herd but acceptable.

Oh - and I agree with the Katahdins do not need their tails docked.


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## BreanneRN (Aug 18, 2018)

Well, this sheepman has had years of experience and he is seeing problems down the road with these sheep of some kind that he doesn't want to deal with, which is why he is willing to give you a deal.  But, he has a lot of sheep and doesn't need them.  Maybe you post some pics of them?  Make sure they don't have bad mouths or udders.  Nevertheless, for someone just starting out, they could be your lemonade...  I would like to see what they look like...  And know how old they are.


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## Baymule (Aug 19, 2018)

I have mixed breed Dorper/Katahdin sheep. This is my "learner" flock. I am now ready to step it up to better sheep. I didn't want to kill a registered $$$ expensive sheep out of ignorance. I didn't want to kill ANY sheep out of ignorance, but losing a lot of money would have put the double whammy on me. 

What is his price on full size, healthy, registered ewes versus what he wants for these undersized ewes? Are you really getting a good deal? If so, I say go for it. Getting registered ewes at a good price sounds good to me.


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## Mini Horses (Aug 19, 2018)

I have no sheep, never have.   Cattle, pigs, goats (meat & dairy), donkeys, riding and mini horses.  Just never got into sheep. Having raised, bred, bought & sold some very expensive registered animals, there are things that I found to be important.


BUT...some thoughts that I have about all animals.  Look at their health and the health of the herd overall.  No matter the size concerns or a great deal, it will be NO good if they are not healthy.   Ask for his records for vaccines, deworming, hoof trims, testing, etc.   If he has a "book of registrations", trust me, he has this info, too.   If he can & does offer the info without hesitations, I'd say he was up on all of it.  Has his herd issues with soremouth or bad feet? Does he have a vet?  Ask for a reference from him.

It sounds like he is a breeder who has experience and isn't wanting to sell and run.  A good breeder will be there to answer questions of a buyer and try to help them succeed.  Being honest is part of the package.   Did he ask you up front what you wanted to do with them?   Seems he offered to assist with breeding rams, resales, etc.  Probably showed you various pens, and how he "handles" his sheep, i.e. weaning, ewes/rams, young ones, etc., etc.  That is a sign of a breeder you want to know in almost all cases I've seen. 

I don't know "sheep" but I believe you should consider them.  Like others have said, their genetics will not be altered even if they are slightly smaller.  You will need to give appropriately good nutritional density without over fattening the ewe and fetus, as a FF especially.  If the seller has offered to take calls if you have problems, need help, etc., even better!


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## Mini Horses (Aug 19, 2018)

BreanneRN said:


> has had years of experience and he is seeing problems down the road with these sheep of some kind that he doesn't want to deal with, which is why he is willing to give you a deal. But, he has a lot of sheep and doesn't need them



So it may be -- BUT what he may see as a "problem" may not be such for another.  If he has a large herd and expects all ewes to lamb on their own without issues, he may feel his way  handling and the herd dynamics are such that he does not have the time to "consider" special need animals.  Where a farm with 10 head can easily give one on one attention.  Often we just don't know. 

Pictures would help...especially with some of "his own"s similar aged near for reference.


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## goatgurl (Aug 19, 2018)

i'm slow to chime in, not here everyday.  you have gotten a lot of good advice, now you have to decide what you want to listen to and what you want to do.  I have raised katahdins for several years and do try to keep the smaller, late born ewelings separate from the ram but sometimes things happen beyond our control.  with a small flock you can keep a close eye on your girls and monitor their growth and condition.  in my opinion you don't want to start throwing feed at these girls if you do decide to bring them home, remember that the fetus(lamb) grows the most in the last 6 weeks of gestation and if you over feed the mom then the baby can be to big to deliver.  be a hands on shepherd some times an animal may look ok but when you handle them you can tell for sure what their condition is.  I wish you the best which ever you decide.  I love my sheeple and bet you will too.


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## walkonfarms (Aug 24, 2018)

Reindeermama said:


> A breeder that is local, and has registered and commercial Katahdins is offering to sell me ewes that might have been breed. He is offering them at a discounted rate because he said he bought them from good bloodlines, but the breeder he bought them from weaned them at 45 days, and he wasn't thinking, and just threw them in with his regular lambs. He says because of this they didn't get the feed they really needed, and are stunted. He said most likely they are pregnant, and he can show us the papers on the good bloodlines they are from. Is this a good deal? Will the lambs be stunted? The ram that bred them is a really nice registered ram too. Will they produce good lambs we could build up our stock from? Or is this a deal we shouldn't do? Any advice would be appreciated. We are just now getting into sheep. I have been trying to read up on them, and have bought several books.(but there is nothing like advice from people that have sheep)




Another thing that will stunt the growth is a high parasite load as lambs. If this is the case these ewes do not have enough parasite resistance. If you buy these ewes do a fecal. If there are no parasite eggs in the test then do it again in a week. Even with a high parasite load the fecal can be negative for eggs. After moving them within a weeks time the stress of the move will encourage the worms to produce eggs. If they have a low resistance this is a trait that will pass on to their lambs. Be sure to worm these girls right after lambing and keep a close eye on their lambs.


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## walkonfarms (Aug 24, 2018)

The lambs from these ewes should be a normal size when grown. They will have a better chance of reaching the correct size and growth rate if these ewe are in a small flock instead of the stress of a large one.


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