# What do you feed your goats????



## Speedy94c (Aug 18, 2010)

I have heard everything from you need to feed 6% to 8% to feed 16% goat feed.   I am at a lose to know what should I feed. 
I can get feed that is close to out of date but not yet at about 1/2 price at times but ive also been told not to change their feed for it may cause the scours. 

What should I do?  I want to get some in bulk but you have to get 1 1/2 tons at a time.  
All your thoughts and help will be appreciated.
Thanks Steve


----------



## ksalvagno (Aug 18, 2010)

I use the 16% goat feed. I don't have enough goats to buy in bulk as the feed is not their main diet. I have Nigerian Dwarfs and I only give them 1 measuring cup, once a day for their feed.


----------



## Roll farms (Aug 19, 2010)

"Bargain" feed is never a bargain...and frequent diet changes are a bad, bad idea w/ goats.

My kids and bucks* get 16% feed w/ deccox and ammonium chloride, top dressed w/ Goat Power mineral (also fed free choice) and Black Oil Sunflower Seed.

*Bucks are only 'fed' during / right after breeding season, the rest of the year they're on 'hay only'.

The adult does get a 12% feed mixed w/ mineral and BOSS and a bit of corn in winter (around 10%).  I also supplement the bred does w/ Kelp for added iodine.

Everyone's feed is top dressed w/ a probiotic powder to keep the 'good bugs' going in spring, when I deworm or vaccinate, and after they kid.

The dairy / heavy kidding boer does get alfalfa hay, everyone else gets grass hay.

I'm not saying this is the 'right' way to feed YOUR goats, just how I feed mine...but I don't change their diets, ever...or if I decide to make a change, I do it gradually.


----------



## Calliopia (Aug 19, 2010)

Bargain feed is NOT a bargain. I learned this lesson the hard way this month.  TSC had some 14% senior horse feed that was marked down to 6.00 a bag because of date.  I was going to give it to the chickens as scratch and it ALL molded with in a week. 

Ours has  bunch of feeds on clearance right now but I won't touch the stuff anymore.


----------



## ()relics (Aug 19, 2010)

Every goat has a different nutritional need based on age, sex, use, health.  To try and feed one type of feed/hay to all your goats regardless of their need would be foolish and wasteful.  As RF has pointed out already, rations are changed depending on what specific animal you are feeding.  Best to buy a feed specifically formulated for goats, then add ingredients to complete your ration eg: BOSS, oats,corn,probiotics,decox.  It is more work at feeding time but it can help you target specific needs which will save you money in feed costs and should benefit your animals.
  as far as bulk feed...I have found that if I go to the feed store a few weeks in advance and tell them I will be buying 10 bags of goat feed, they are more than happy to throw in a bag for free...Then, as long as it is properly stored in your barn, you will have no problem...jmo


----------



## DonnaBelle (Aug 19, 2010)

I learned the hard way about keeping Black Oil Sunflower seed too long.

I had about l/2 a bag left over from feeding the birds last spring.

I gave some to the goats and they had the scours big time.  I had to give Probios for about 3 days, not cheap.  So in the long run, have fresh feed, the money you save might cost a lot more later.

I stuck my nose down in the bin and the smelled sour.  YUK>

Also, feed will get those "grain bugs" if it's not fresh, yuk.

I get one bag at a time now, just enough to feed for a week.



DonnaBelle


----------



## MysticScorpio82 (Aug 19, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> "Bargain" feed is never a bargain...and frequent diet changes are a bad, bad idea w/ goats.
> 
> My kids and bucks* get 16% feed w/ deccox and ammonium chloride, top dressed w/ Goat Power mineral (also fed free choice) and Black Oil Sunflower Seed.
> 
> ...


Why are bucks only fed hay except for breeding season?  Does it effect their smell?


----------



## Roll farms (Aug 19, 2010)

Because they don't "need" it....they get fat / lazy...and it's not good for them to get too much grain when they're not 'working'.

I start giving them grain about a month before breeding is to commence, to put a little weight on them before they go in w/ the does.  Chaos, who was a bit fat before breeding season, has now worried himself down about 25#.  He will be given grain for a few weeks (slowly tapering off) once he's away from the girls, b/c I don't want him going into winter under-conditioned.

The feed doesn't effect their buck smell one way or the other...


----------



## BetterHensandGardens (Aug 19, 2010)

Roll farms
The dairy / heavy kidding boer does get alfalfa hay said:
			
		

> I'm not saying this is the 'right' way to feed YOUR goats, just how I feed mine...but I don't change their diets, ever...or if I decide to make a change, I do it gradually.


Why alfalfa hay vs. grass hay, and should either grass or alfalfa be 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th cutting?


----------



## Roll farms (Aug 19, 2010)

I always try to avoid first cutting, it makes better bedding than hay b/c of all the stems.

Other than that, I buy what's available / affordable.  
Our goats don't need $8.00 a bale racehorse hay.

Alfalfa has more calories / protein / calcium, etc.  
If they're not making babies or giving milk, again, they don't "need" alfalfa.  And if you have enough browse / pasture, they don't "need" any hay.

This is just my 2 cents worth, to each their own.


----------



## Mini-M Ranch (Aug 20, 2010)

Our lactating girls get an 18% sweet feed mix made by Blue Seal.  They get about 3 pounds on the milk stand once per day.  Also, 1 C of alfalfa pellets and about 1/3 C of BOSS and a tablespoon of sea kelp meal.

The 2 does who are not in milk share about 2 pounds of grain and 1/3 C BOSS once per day. 

They have freechoice browse and grass hay because I can't spend $10 a bale on alfalfa hay. That's why I give them alfalfa pellets.

My bucks get about 1 C each of grain, free choice grass hay and browse.


----------



## MysticScorpio82 (Aug 20, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Because they don't "need" it....they get fat / lazy...and it's not good for them to get too much grain when they're not 'working'.
> 
> I start giving them grain about a month before breeding is to commence, to put a little weight on them before they go in w/ the does.  Chaos, who was a bit fat before breeding season, has now worried himself down about 25#.  He will be given grain for a few weeks (slowly tapering off) once he's away from the girls, b/c I don't want him going into winter under-conditioned.
> 
> *The feed doesn't effect their buck smell one way or the other...*


*
*

Dang!   Wouldn't it be nice though.... hehe


----------



## mossyStone (Aug 20, 2010)

wow wish i could find 8.00  A bale race horse hay 


Mossy Stone Farm


----------



## Roll farms (Aug 21, 2010)

You can in Indiana...

I just bought 75 bales of good grass hay for 1.50 a bale...granted I got a good price b/c the guy buys goats off of me....

There's a guy near here who raises / trains TBs and Standardbreds and he pays 7-8$ for really good 2nd and 3rd cutting alfalfa....

Average price for alfalfa/grass mix is 4$ a bale, $2.50-3.00 for grass hay.

Working at TSC, I see the 'for sale' board and talk to all the local horse people and hay raisers....

When I start hearing "hay prices are going to go sky high this year" talk I start buying up whatever I can ASAP.


----------



## Ariel301 (Aug 21, 2010)

I feed my does all the alfalfa hay they want, and the buck gets alfalfa/grass mix. I WISH we could get hay that cheap, $8 here buys you a bale of cow hay. (The bales are bigger here, 120 pounds) I found a dealer who has 1500 pound bales of alfalfa for $100 each, so I stocked up on enough of those to last through the next year. Unfortunately it's also a two hour drive each way to get them. The feed store price is holding steady at $13 a bale, and I would need 1 1/2 of those bales a week! 

The does also get all they can eat of spent grain mash from the local brewery, it is what is left of the barley/wheat/hops etc when they are done making beer. I get it for nothing but the cost of gas to haul it, about a ton a month, so it cuts the feed bill for goats and poultry. I feed my milkers grain only during milking season, except one old "hard keeper" who needs it year round. I mix cracked corn, oats, and 16% dairy feed equally to get enough protein and fat for my particular needs, I've got a doe who has to be fed a ton of fat to stay in shape. I top dress their feed with Redmond's Mineral Conditioner (just started that a couple of months ago and I already notice the girls picking up some weight and "bloom"--I will keep using it!), which is also offered free-choice but the older girls, who are addicted to the sweet red salt blocks, don't like it, I have to hide their dosage in their feed to get it in them. The kids go crazy over it, they think it is candy. I think they are probably taking in at least double the recommended dosage. The kids get milk until 2 months old, and are offered hay right from the start. I don't feed them grain unless one is super skinny, just all the alfalfa they want, plus a little browsing time, and all the brewer's mash they want.


----------



## mossyStone (Aug 21, 2010)

You are so lucky..... best i could do this yr was 260 a ton ( 21 bales) i have to have at least 3 ton.... I did get a good deal on grass hay mix but that was 180 a ton ( 30 bales) They are on the small side....... I hear we will have a hay shortage in Washington state, but i don't know if i'm buying into that......

Think it's time to move east..cheaper hay and Gas....... Whats the land prices around there??? 


Mossy Stone Farm


----------



## savingdogs (Aug 22, 2010)

I was thinking the same thing about the price of good hay. We can get really really cheap stuff for 5.00 a bale but the goats won't eat it, it becomes bedding!
The good hay runs from 8 to 14 a bale depending on the time of year and type you are buying.


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm feeding 2nd cut alfalfa right now, since we have does in lactation..  It's usually about $7/bale, and I got 42 last time I picked some up.

Cost to me:  $0.

That's what happens when you spend a day and a half helping your buddy throw it off a haywagon and stack it up in his barnloft.  I think the first 19 bales were "last years" hay (which was only "last years" for like a day, considering we were putting up the first square bales of "this years") and then we put 23 of the next load straight off the wagon into my truck..

I would have helped with the third cut, but his barn loft fell out (along with all the hay we stacked up there.   ) so they had to roll bale it...which sucks.  Hopefully we'll get a 4th cutting in so I can go KILL MYSELF for a day, helping.


----------



## DAS (Aug 23, 2010)

Speaking of Alfalfa . . . I just talked to my hay guy who has 1st cutting for $4 a bale, and 2nd, 3rd, & 4th cuttings for $5.  He tells me that, although the first cutting is stemmy, the 2nd through 4th cuttings are all leafy & there's very little difference among them.

I know that 2nd cutting is leafy and good, but what about 3rd and 4th cuttings? Is one better than another?  Which one would you buy??

 BTW, I'm in SE OH -- I know that prices vary by region.

thanks -- Dina


----------



## mossyStone (Aug 23, 2010)

My girls waste way to much Frist Cut Alfalfa i only get that if i can't get my hands on Second or Third Cutting.... I hate walking to the barn and see them pooping and laying on that hay... I remade my mangers to help with that...... But they can be wasteful critters..... good thing i love them so much LOL



Mossy Stone Farm


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 24, 2010)

If you can get first cut cheap, get it...but feed it when it's really, really cold out.  

Stems = heat, and goats know it.  My experience has been that when you throw stemmy hay (be it stemmy clover, or timothy/clover) when it's cold, you don't have NEARLY the "tumbleweed" problem you do when you feed it while it's warm out.

That's just my experience with my herd, though...but try it.


----------



## savingdogs (Aug 24, 2010)

That is interesting to note. Would it have to do with there being less forage in the winter as well? My goats seem much pickier now that it is summer and there are so many food choices for them.


----------



## mossyStone (Aug 24, 2010)

Cm even when we had three feet of snow a few winters ago those girls of mine poop and pee'd on the frist cutting Alfalfa.. The won't eat it...... They will eat the leafy yumms  thats it!

 I am trying this grass mix now Timothy / Alfalfa mix we'll see....
 I may go to Alfalfa pellets and local hay and see how that goes..


Thing is to switch them takes a while 

 I think i need a cow to clean up after them LOL!

Mossy Stone Farm


----------



## savingdogs (Aug 24, 2010)

I love using the alfalfa pellets but give mine hay as well. They do seem to like them and some of my other livestock like it as well so it is useful and I don't have to worry about my wether eating it.


----------



## ALANB (Aug 25, 2010)

HERD MASTER ;  I agree with you partialy , Actualy Goats are very finiky eaters !!  But if you have good grass pasture you don't need anything else .  Except , I pen up my Kidding Nannies and my one Milker for the house-hold and supplement them with good Alfalfa and rolled Barley . plus a small salt block and ALWAYS Fresh water !!!  Warning , as most of you know , they will kill your Fruit trees instantly !!!  Any pen-pals write to me tp  bebop@i10net.com ........... , ALANB.


----------



## ()relics (Aug 25, 2010)

ALANB said:
			
		

> HERD MASTER.....ALANB.


Wait A Minute...is her Greatness Kim Roll here too


----------



## Roll farms (Aug 25, 2010)

:LOL  Shut up Mr. Dan....

CM is a fellow master of the herd, I believe that's who AlanB was speaking to....

(I laughingly told ()relics that I got a phone call from someone who asked if I was "the one they call "Herdmaster" on BYH" and he won't shush about it now...I explained to the caller that that's an automatic  title you get for posting a lot, NOT for knowing a lot....)


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 25, 2010)

mossyStone said:
			
		

> Cm even when we had three feet of snow a few winters ago those girls of mine poop and pee'd on the frist cutting Alfalfa.. The won't eat it...... They will eat the leafy yumms  thats it!


Try feeding less of it.  



> I am trying this grass mix now Timothy / Alfalfa mix we'll see....
> I may go to Alfalfa pellets and local hay and see how that goes..


If you can get timothy/clover somewhere...aaahhhhhhh...that's actually my favorite "grass hay" for cold winter feeding.  Timothy has one of the more favorable Ca ratios of all grasses, and clover -- to me, anyway -- is like a po' man's alfalfa.  





> Thing is to switch them takes a while


I'll tell on myself a little bit here...I'm not NEARLY so careful switching hay as I am switching bagged feed.  Careful, yes, but not like 10/90, 20/80, blah blah blah -- especially if I'm going from something stout like alfalfa to something a little less fancy like grass..  

I don't advise that, of course...but I do it.


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 25, 2010)

Roll said:
			
		

> asked if I was "the one they call "Herdmaster"


That immediately makes me think of Rick Moranis from Ghostbusters...."I am the gatekeeper.  Are you the keymaster?"





			
				Roll said:
			
		

> I explained to the caller that that's an automatic  title you get for posting a lot, NOT for knowing a lot...


Agreed, and often guilty as charged.  

Besides...shouldn't you be a "Herd _Mistress_" anyway?


----------



## jodief100 (Aug 25, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> If you can get timothy/clover somewhere...aaahhhhhhh...that's actually my favorite "grass hay" for cold winter feeding.  Timothy has one of the more favorable Ca ratios of all grasses, and clover -- to me, anyway -- is like a po' man's alfalfa.


Cool, I did not know that and I can get Timothy/clover pretty cheap right now.  $2.50 a bale as compared to 4-5 for alfalfa.  I feed  stockpiled pasture in the winter and I like to keep hay out for them as well.  They seem to prefer pasture unless there is snow on the ground.  I can buy a lot of grain to supplement at a dollar difference a bale.

Nutritionally, Dr. Pinkerton told me most goats need 13% protein.  More for late gestation and lactating does.  Does that sound right?  

So what is the approximate protein on timothy/clover as compared to alfalfa?


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 25, 2010)

Alfalfa/grass mix hay is generally considered to be around 16-18%...that's kinda the rule of thumb, I guess..  It makes sense, considering straight alfalfa that's cut right, cured right, baled right, and stored right is in the low 20's, at least, and grass is generally from 10% to the low-teens..  

Clover, on the other hand -- straight clover, done right -- is only about 16%.  Add grass, which is always lower in protein than legumes, and it goes down from there.  I wanna say timothy's like 10-12%, so I always kinda figured timothy/clover to be somewhere in that 13-14% range.

To me, losing those few protein percentage points was a small price to pay for being able to achieve a good Ca ratio and save GOOD MONEY over alfalfa or alfalfa/grass mix, which can easily hit $7/bale.

The only caveat I know of is that baling clover seems easier to screw up than baling alfalfa.  It doesn't cure as brittle and stemmy as alfalfa...seems to retain more moisture than alfalfa.  That, of course, means it's more prone to mold.  That's not to say it's REALLY prone to molde -- just _more_ prone to it than alfalfa.  So long as you keep an eye out for white stuff when you split flakes off, though, it shouldn't be a problem..  Hell, anybody with a lick of sense is watching for that with any kind of hay anyhow, right?  

If you can get it for $2.50 a bale, buy a few and try it.  I think you'll like it.  Keep in mind, too, that it looks like hell because clover always cures poop-brown and timothy always looks bleached, but my goats -- ALL of them -- will knock you sideways to get at the clover in hay.  

I'm actually fairly convinced they like it _better_ than alfalfa.

Just don't tell them it's so much cheaper or they'll probably turn their noses up.


----------



## mossyStone (Aug 25, 2010)

Well most of August i pull my hair out looking for good hay... I lost the best hay guy a few yrs ago and it has been hell ever since........ 

Does any one have a scoop on this baged hay call chaffehay i believe?

I did some checking with a few hay dealers no one has this clover mix around here 

I told the hubby i am getting a calf to raise and have clean up after the girls his eyes about rolled out of his head LOL


i SWEAR we live in the wrong area for goats.........



Mossy Stone Farm


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Aug 26, 2010)

Keep in mind that it's ok to approximate feed value of hay, but until you send in a forage sample and have it tested, you really don't know exactly what the nutrition is.  

Normally, hay that is brigher green and sweet smelling is higher in nutrition than hay that is not as pretty in color, but it will fool you.  We once judged a hay class (that had already been tested ahead of time) and they one everyone picked for first (nice bright green hay and smelled great) was actually below the one that was a faded/brown color.  It tested really well, but the color wasn't as nice.


----------



## jodief100 (Aug 26, 2010)

I know I should get my hay tested, but my Ag Agent is always a jerk to me when I go in.   He only wants to work with the cattle people, will say so to my face and then walk away when I am in the middle of a question.  

The scuttlebutt is he has been fired so I need to check that out.  He wasn't at the Phase 1 meeting last week so maybe it's true...

For the 5 bucks they charge to test hay it would save me a lot of hassle.


----------



## jodief100 (Aug 26, 2010)

mossyStone said:
			
		

> i SWEAR we live in the wrong area for goats.........


You are by Everet, north of Seattle correct?  I think it is too wet and cold for good hay up there.  On the other hand the tree and weed growth would be great for goats, if you can keep thier hooves in good shape.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Aug 26, 2010)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> I know I should get my hay tested, but my Ag Agent is always a jerk to me when I go in.   He only wants to work with the cattle people, will say so to my face and then walk away when I am in the middle of a question.
> 
> The scuttlebutt is he has been fired so I need to check that out.  He wasn't at the Phase 1 meeting last week so maybe it's true...
> 
> For the 5 bucks they charge to test hay it would save me a lot of hassle.


That stinks!  I would have politely (or not so politely) told him that your taxes are helping to pay his salary, and he works for EVERYONE.  

You can do forage testing on your own though!  Just google "forage testing labs" and you should get a list of places you can send a sample!


----------



## jodief100 (Aug 26, 2010)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> That stinks!  I would have politely (or not so politely) told him that your taxes are helping to pay his salary, and he works for EVERYONE.


Told him that many times.   

Another farmer who does pasture poultry and sheep has the same problem with him.  The largest goat farmer in the county (over 300 head) had to fight with him for 3 years to get him to even take his appilcation for Phase 1 grants even though state law REQUIRED him to consider all applicants equally.  The state had to resort to a standard application for all counties with a blind box application process.  Apparently we aren't the only county with this problem.  

Rumer confirmed!  Talked to the secreatry, he has officially "resigned".   The 4-H agent has "resigned" as well.  He didn't like goats either.  
Of course now we have no AG Agent or 4-H Agent at all....... probably an improvement. She said if I want hay tested I have to wait two weeks, they doesn't have time right now.


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 26, 2010)

Really stupid for an extension agent to be anti-goat in Kentucky, considering all the tobacco settlement money the state and dept. of ag. have put toward encouraging people to raise goats here.  Goats were "The Plan" for when the burley tobacco quotas went away.

I can understand it, though...being anti-goat, I mean...I'm pretty anti-goat some days, too.


----------



## jodief100 (Aug 26, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Really stupid for an extension agent to be anti-goat in Kentucky, considering all the tobacco settlement money the state and dept. of ag. have put toward encouraging people to raise goats here.  Goats were "The Plan" for when the burley tobacco quotas went away.


When I said Phase 1 earlier I was talking about the tabbacco setlement money.  The "now former" Ag agent wouldn't accept applications from goat, sheep, chicken or HORSE (in Kentucky?!!?) people for the first 3 years of the program.  Some people went over his head and got that changed.  

I have my application in!  I applied for fences and I want to get a new buck.  Wish me luck, I could certainly use the money.    They changed the way they allocate money in Pendleton County so I think I have a good chance.  I have missed being in the first found the past few years and didn't have enough time to complete my projects when I got approved in the second round.  I need to get one more breeding doe to fulfill my eligablity for the new buck..........

Are you eligible CM?  I would think so....


----------

