# Sudden congestion in 6 day old doeling( in pain)



## heatherlynnky (Jun 20, 2012)

This is my orphan baby. She is still hungry and wanting to eat but she sounds congested. She was making a horrible gurgly sound and sneezing a few min ago. Nothing coming from nose or eyes. Please tell me what to do. I only have duramysin? here available. Help

edited to add.

Goats temp is 102.8. All of a sudden its crying in pain and it is constipated. Children said they saw it poo or pood on them but its bum is all kinds of dialated and with an enema some came out. It also doesn't seem to be able to pee.
Enema worked better than I thought. More came out. Yellow but firm.  Still moaning. Still bloated. Gave baking soda mixed with electrolyte liquid. Considering milk of magnesia.

6 day old orphan, unsure on the amount of mothers colostrum. Was given supplemental colostrum days 2 through 4 from another goat. Given only fresh goats milk.  I was 15 min shy of 8 hours between feedings. I did up her from 5.5 to 6 oz. She was hungry as always. Not off on food at all. First day outdoors. Came inside sneezing a bit. Didn't think anything of it. Sneezing turned to almost choking gurgly sound after feeding. Given probios today and was given kid and lamb paste before. Has had one shot of antibiotics from the vet. She sounds like she is in pain.


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## ksalvagno (Jun 21, 2012)

Can you get Draxxin or Nuflor from the vet? Those are much better antibiotics. The other possibility is that some of the milk went into her lungs. Getting Banamine (pain reliever) from the vet wouldn't be bad either.


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## Roll farms (Jun 21, 2012)

She may be sucking the bottle down too fast, as well.  Make her take 'breaks' or use a nipple w/ a smaller hole in it.


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## heatherlynnky (Jun 21, 2012)

So Roll you want a visitor in your barn. I may have to find someone who knows what they are doing and convince them to let me sleep in the barn with my goat till this rough patch is over. She is still constipated a bit. I gave her another enema and she pood a TON. I called the vet who specializes in goats and sheep and they cannot fit me in. No one around here has antitoxin btw.  She is gassy. This will sound stupid but I gave her the baking soda and then sat there "burping" her for hours last night. She is moaning and in pain. Picking her up makes her cry loudly. The breathing is a touch better since I got her to poo and pass some gas. She only ate 2 oz of electrolytes this morning. No interest in food now. No temp still. 

I just don't know whats going on. Is this a result of being an orphan? I am being so careful and this is still happening.  She is getting fresh goats milk which I would think should be easiest for her to eat. I was very very careful on how much I give her. I did increase the amount because she was hungry but I did it very very slow. Never sooner than 6 hours and I had us to the 8 hour mark last night. What am I doing wrong that this keeps happening.  I got desperate and went to an old sheep farmer down the road and he said just give her some pepto and a half a baby asprin. He said she isn't really bloated. She is a bit tight and full but he thinks its mild. Just keep her cool, hydrated,  and walking. I don't know what else to do. Vet won't help me. I have slept so little in the last 5 days that I now have an eye twitch going on. This has to get better soon.


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## Roll farms (Jun 21, 2012)

You are welcome to come here and I'd help you w/ her.  

W/out seeing her, I dunno if you're fretting is over something or nothing....what's scaring you may (or may not) be normal behavior.

Is she teeth gritting?

All of my kids are 'orphans'...they never meet their moms and I can't say as I've ever had one act like what you're describing.

Mine get colostrum....then milk....occasionally one will scour a bit and I give them scour halt.  I've only had to give 1 goat enema in 15 years! 
I don't put baking soda in their milk as a general rule, but if you're not, you might give her 1/2 tsp in ea. bottle.

She has me stumped but again, I dunno how much of her bahavior is 'normal' since I can't see her.


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## babsbag (Jun 21, 2012)

Mine sometimes sound congested after they eat. If she isn't running a fever then I wouldn't be too terribly worried, just keep an eye on her. If you have someone that can listen to lung sounds that might help figure it out. I have had them cough out snot all over my hand and be fine the next time I see them. 

We can get the antitoxin at TSC, but sometimes you have to go and look for yourself as they often get it confused with the CDT vaccine. 

Don't feel like this is your fault, they are animals, you are doing your best, stuff happens. She would be dead if you had left her with the original breeder.

Here is a copy of my post when I tread a kid for enterotoxemia

First noticed that my 4 week old semi-bottle baby (Polly) was slow running to her bottle, (same in the morning in hindsight). After she drank some she seemed miserable and started making little moans. Up to the house she goes. No fever, just miserable. Dam is a new goat, not vaccinated when I bought her. Had given kid C&D antitoxin (not vaccine) at 2 days as I know no immunity from Mom. Polly was slated for cdt last night. 

treatment: 
10 cc C&D orally 
10 cc C&D sub q
5 cc Pen G orally 
5 cc Pen G sub q
repeat oral dose every 2 hours for 6 hours
6 cc pepto-mismal over 6 hours
a little baking soda, she hated it.
.5 cc banamine 
.5 cc duramycin (I gave that as just found another kid with a temp of 106.1) (I wouldn't give the antibiotic normally)

Polly had been urinating, but no poop. That concerned me. So I put her to bed in our bathroom with concerns. This morning she had very dry goat pellets (yeah) and acts fine. She had about 4 oz of milk and went back to the barn. She is partially dam raised and I saw her nursing.


If you ever give a Penicillin injection you have to pull back on the syringe and make sure no blood. If you get Pen into the blood stream it is fatal. The stuff scares me, but I use it.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 21, 2012)

what about giving some penn G orally?


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## heatherlynnky (Jun 21, 2012)

I don't know either guys. I probably am worrying too much at times but  there is something off. Maybe I can give a timeline

Ok baby had a bit of tummy upset the tuesday night. Lots of moaning and her back was arched. No grinding her teeth though and no fever. We are running 102.5 to 103.8. The higher scale is usually when she has been outside for a bit. Anywho I massaged her sides a bit and then took her outside. She only urinated. I never saw her poo. My older children were taking her out to walk in the garden and assuing me she has gone potty. Anyway she stops moaning after a bit and her body relaxes. I put her to bed. Wed morning she is bright eyes and perky. She is up walking around, wagging her tail and butting my legs for her bottle. We up her intake a bit because she is crying constantly and I assume it is from hunger. I feed her more and she quiets down. She spent the day outside with her new buddy and did great but she came in sneezing. Last night I up her bottle to 6 ounces and we are up to 8 hour apart feedings. All other feedings were 6 to 7 hours apart in the last couple days. Maybe 20 minutes after eating she is miserable. Moaning and loud cries and wheezing. ( not like her cries for food) They sound a bit more desperate. she makes gurgling choking sounds.  She squats to pee and just a tiny dribble comes out. She stays squatting and grunts and grown and strains. Her little poo hole was almost as big as a penny and nothing was coming out and she was making high pitched cries. I gave her baking soda and milk of magnesia . Her belly is as tight as a drum. When I am patting her sides trying to get some gas out and give her some relief it sounds like I am hitting a drum even and there is a sloshy sound. Anyway 2 or so hours and she is finally calmed down and no longer moaning. Her belly is still a little sloshy sounding just barely but its softer again and she went poo alot.

This morning, I give her half milk and half electrolyte and only 2 ounces but afterwards she starts moaning again. Still squatting and straining again. After about 40 minutes of that I can't take it and I give her a bit of karo and pepto for gas on the advice of the sheep farmer down the road. It works wonders and she starts to poo and her tummy is softer again.  relief and sleep for her. We take her for walks outside after it was suggested not to let her get too hot. Next bottle is all electrolytes AND probiotic powder. I gave her a dose of probios yesterday. Her tummy feels very full still and she cries if you touch her tummy. i cannot find any antitoxin. Everywhere either does not carry it or is out of it. i call the vet and they are busy. Without asking me any particulars about whats wrong or age they give me 3 prescriptions I need to fill with them. All they know is she was a bit constipated and bloaty. They didn't have time to hear the rest nor do they feel seeing her is needed. That was no help and honestly I am more worried about using their stuff than not because they have no clue what is going on . 

Now she again has the runs. It was just pasty but at the very end it was alot liquid but maybe thats not bad. She needs whatever is bugging her out. i gave her a dose of pepto and she is being walked again.  Tonights bottle will only be elecxtrolytes again. Since getting her buddy the constant crying stopped but the problems have not. Thats the time line. I don't want to admit this but I am scared i am fighting a losing battle. Maybe she didn't get enough colostrum after all. I am very worried.

Edited to add. I took her to see the sheep farmer down the road. He doesn't feel its "bloat" She is a little firm and uncomfy but he considers this more a tummy ache than bloat at this point. she is not all bulging out or uneven or anything like that. Her tummy is just sloshy, wheezy, tight belly, constipated and moaning. Today she is less sloshy, no wheezy, tight belly, the runs and moaning. He checked her cord site too. Not sure what he was looking for but he felt around it and looked at it. His suggestion which we have followed all day is pepto, electrolytes, and keep her walking and standing. I don't know if anything I have said will ring a bell that might help us.


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## Roll farms (Jun 21, 2012)

OK, this is just my opinion here.....but....Stop the pepto.

You need her to poop all that 'stuff' out.   Pepto is going to ....plug her up.  See where I'm going?

I (personally) feel like she's had too much stuff thrown at her newborn system and it's confused.

If I have a kid w/ severe scours, I use revitalyte gelling.  If I couldn't get that, I'd give them jello water made w/ gatoraide....But I'd really, really try to find revitalyte gelling and feed her that alone until the poops stop....adding 1/2 tsp of baking soda per bottle.

Then milk.  Don't add anything to it.


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## heatherlynnky (Jun 21, 2012)

Roll what I think you just said is I was an over nervous goat lady with an over nervous non goat vet and we have confused my babies system. Ok no more pepto. I will go tomorrow and look for the gel. Is it fine to give electrolytes for now? When this started I backed down to 4 oz every 6 of electrolytes just to keep her hydrated. No milk. I did give probios yesterday. 

She is complaining but no more bad breathing for now. The poo is slowing down. Its still runny but it is not severe.  Its also green now instead of yellow. 

I am sorry for causing her all these issues. I got too much advice and tried to keep up with it all and just put every second and every suggestion into this girl. I probably over did it.   

edited to add : Well I tried the electrolyte. She is refusing a bottle and sounds like she is choking on stuff coming up again. No rattling in chest. Its more like she is gagging. She is not bloated looking at all. I just have this feeling I am losing a battle. Temp is good, no runs right now, still urinating, still walking. BUT not eating and grinding teeth.


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## babsbag (Jun 22, 2012)

This is really a question for someone that knows more than I. If you have a very young kid that has not developed a rumen as of yet why did you give probiotics? Isn't that used to keep the rumen functioning? 

Another question for the op. Is she walking ok when she does walk? Is the sloshy sound gone? 

When my very little triplets were born this year everytime they would eat they would hunch their back and look miserable. I asked my goat mentor if they were ok and she said that that is the way that newborns stand when digesting thier milk. They looked in pain and I thought for sure they were sick. I never noticed it in my dairy stock before, but these were little kids. They did that for a few weeks and then seemed to outgrow it.

Hope she gets better for you.


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## Roll farms (Jun 22, 2012)

We don't have rumens.  Neither do horses or chickens...but probiotics benefit intestinal development in any animal.  

Electrolytes are fine, the revitalyte gelling is just electrolytes plus the gel to slow down their passage through the intestines so they absorb more from it.
She's basically been on an all liquid diet so I'm not surprised she has the poops.  (milk is liquid but they absorb the fats and proteins and make 'solid' poop w/ it.)

Can you get the C &D antitoxin from the goat farmer you got goat milk from?  Jeffer's supply could probably rush you some....

I'm sorry this is turning out to be so hard.


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## heatherlynnky (Jun 22, 2012)

This is going to sound a bit cold hearted but its not meant to be. It was hard to take a step back but I think Roll was right about doing too much.  Last night I just left it up to Gods will. I did what i was supposed to do, i took care of all her needs and did what I should but I didn't stand over her trying to think of every tiny thing that maybe I could do.   I fed her at 4 and she took 4 oz of electrolyte and milk. ( she refuses straight electrolytes now)  I did 3/4 electrolyte and 1/4 milk.  on the straight electrolyte she seems to choke alot. This doeling might be sick now but she is still very stubborn. anywho fed her and took her temp.  It was 103.9. she was also a bit dehydrated before I fed her so that may have contributed to temp.  I gave her 1/2 of a baby asprin for pain, took her outside to potty and then to bed. A tiny bit of runny pasty poo. ( if you know chickens think pasty butt is how it looked last night when she came in) A tiny dribble of pee. My husband took care of her this morning and said she was walking around and chewing a little piece of hay outside with the other baby.

She walks. Its a bit stiff legged. Not sure if thats normal.  At night she stays in the old playroom. It has tile so I can more easily contain her bowel issues there. She walked out the play room, through my kids room and to the living room looking for me. She still has a little bit of a hard time getting back up on her own. She does it but doesn't like to. Honestly she is either really really weak or really really lazy. seems like she would rather call louder than come look but if that doesn't work she will get up and come get me. She still makes some choking gurgly noises and sneezes. She was grinding her teeth a little last night. She did it just for maybe a minute and stopped. I gave her a new pritchard nipple with a smaller hole to slow down her eating. When she does eat she tries to get it all as fast as she can. 

I gave the probiotics because thats what everyone said to do and also I don't see how probiotics can hurt at this point.  Every animal here gets probiotics on a very regular basis. the chickens, ducks, geese, dogs. If the horses would take a bit of kefir in their food I would get it down them too. So the probios seemed to be a small harmless thing I could do to help the baby. Thats the theory.  It also seemed to be the one thing everyone said to do.


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## Roll farms (Jun 22, 2012)

Hoping you're both hanging in / hanging on.  

If you can find B vitamin at your local farm supply, it helps w/ energy and appetite.

I'm not much for giving them a whole lot of oral extras (unless absolutely necessary) but I really do fix nearly everything w/ B vit, probios, and red cell....
I dose itty bitty kids at 3cc 1x a day for a couple days.  Her pee will be very orangy-yellow as she pees out any extra, fyi.

She's a might young to need red cell but the B vitamin really helps.  

You'll need to consider vaccinations for her if she makes it to 1 week.  

Best of luck to you !


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## heatherlynnky (Jun 22, 2012)

Today was one week old. But she died.  I had to run to the store real fast and we left her with the other doeling. She laid down beside her and went to sleep. When we came back she was dead.  Sorry if I was pushy over this one. I put my heart into it and  I didn't want to let her down.  Going to go find some coMfort in a cup of tea and  then sleep.


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## Remuda1 (Jun 22, 2012)

Wow, so sorry you lost her. You really gave it your best and I know it must be very difficult for you right now. Keep your chin up, you went far and above what a lot of folks would have done.


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## bonbean01 (Jun 22, 2012)




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## Roll farms (Jun 22, 2012)




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## babsbag (Jun 23, 2012)

I am sorry it turned out this way. I was really hoping she would pull through for you. You definately gave it your best try;she was lucky to have you.


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