# Rough Collie as LGD?



## christy_was_here

Are rough collies (like Lassie) a herding breed or a guardian?

I'm looking to add a good farm dog to my barn/house to deter predators and people and was thinking maybe a collie would be a good choice. I grew up with a very protective collie and think they might be a little more manageable than a pry or anatolian who likes to roam a large perimeter and may not be as people friendly, which is important here.

I need a dog who can be intimidating when needed, but friendly otherwise. I realize a collie probably wouldn't be much of a threat to a coyote, but, (praying) I have yet to have an issue with them and I've kept chickens/ducks for the past 7 years.

To be honest, I am feeling a little vulnerable too because with the economy where it is there are a lot of shady people coming around the area and several of my neighbors have had stuff stolen from their barns and sheds. Part of me thinks a pry would be such an awesome protector for me and the goats/birds, but I just don't know what to do...

Thanks for  reading this and your advice, comments!

Christy


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## Rebbetzin

I do hope some one can answer your question. I don't have much experience with Collies. A neighbor had one once that would "herd" the kids into a tight group and not let them "escape".

It was funny but, some kids would get scared.  

I do know not all dogs, within a breed will "do" what most people expect of them. They are all individuals, and will need training to do what you want them to do.

Maybe contact a Collie Rescue group in your area, or a breeder and talk to them about their dogs.


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## carolinagirl

Herding dogs don't normally make good LGDs.  A herding dog has the instincts to herd and chase, the LGD breeds have no prey drive and are content to sit quietly and keep a watchful eye on their stock.  Of course there are a few exceptional hearding breed dogs that have made good LGDs but for the most part, you would be much better off with a guardian breed and not a herding breed.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

Both the rough and smooth collies are herding dogs.  A herding dog will work with the handler to move livestock, but the herding drive (modified prey drive) is strong and they aren't meant to work animals without a handler.  An LGD is meant to guard livestock and works independently.  They don't have the same instinct to move/chase animals the way a herding dog does.


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## patandchickens

christy_was_here said:
			
		

> Are rough collies (like Lassie) a herding breed or a guardian?


Herding breed, absolutely. NOT a guardian that lives with the flock and protects it against predators.

Although it does not sound to me from your description that you necessarily want a true guardian animal anyhow. (If you do, the Great Pyrenees is by reputation the one least apt to be biting people; but if you want it to do livestock-guardian duties, you would want to get one from working LGD lines not pet lines)

Just having "a" dog on the property will warn off some predators to some extent, and obviously some people to some extent too. So maybe, if you don't actually want a true LGD with all of the lifestyle/actions inherent in that type career, just a good larger-breed farm dog would be good. A collie *that does not have real strong herding instincts* (so you can leave it loose) or some other good-sized breed that is not going to chase the livestock.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## helmstead

Perhaps he's the exception, but my Aussie will only herd my goats when we're out there with him.  Otherwise, he chills in the pens.  I am completely comfortable leaving him with my ADULT goats for extended periods of time.  He's also an excellent guard dog, anyone who has been to our place when we hadn't locked him up can attest to that.  This winter we left him outside every night because the coyotes got hungry - and every time we had a doe kid, they'd be here for the next few nights.  That boy kept a perimeter around our entire property for two solid months, all night, every night.  He might be a bit of a PITA (VERY high work drive) but he's worth his weight in gold.


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## christy_was_here

Thanks for your advice/opinions. I had always thought collies were herders, but I wasn't completely sure. I don't think I can trust a dog with a high prey drive around my chickens anyway, so I'll just keep my eyes and ears open for a better fit.


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## PJisaMom

FWIW, I recently lucked into a 2 year old Great Pyr.... and she ROCKS.  She's a wanna-be lap dog when she's getting her loving, but totally on the job all night, every night.  My youngest daughter has significant health issues and previously had a HUGE fear of dogs.  She has taken to my GP like nothing I've ever seen.  My children now belong to the dog and she's *excellent* with my goats.  

We have wanted a dog for a long time, but due to allergies, we can't have one in the house... my GP is just as nice as I'd like a house dog to be, but with the added working expertise of an LGD.

(Heard the coyotes out the other night... in the distance... She was MORE than ready to tell them to kiss off - and i'm sure the neighbors were *thrilled*   )

Keep looking and you'll find the right fit!  Good luck!


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## AlpacaEmployee

I like both herding breeds and LGDs, but I hate seeing them left outdoors without proper grooming. May just be what I've seen, but I just can't stand it.


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## carolinagirl

AlpacaEmployee said:
			
		

> I like both herding breeds and LGDs, but I hate seeing them left outdoors without proper grooming. May just be what I've seen, but I just can't stand it.


Studies have shown that active working Anatolian shepherds actually live longer when they are working dogs than as house pets.  They stay conditioned and toned.


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## AlpacaEmployee

carolinagirl said:
			
		

> AlpacaEmployee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like both herding breeds and LGDs, but I hate seeing them left outdoors without proper grooming. May just be what I've seen, but I just can't stand it.
> 
> 
> 
> Studies have shown that active working Anatolian shepherds actually live longer when they are working dogs than as house pets.  They stay conditioned and toned.
Click to expand...

Anatolian Shepherds don't have near the coat that a rough collie does. I wasn't talking about just being left outdoors (I have no problems with farm dogs living in the barn), I was talking about the lack of proper grooming. When a collie is blowing coat, they need brushed at least once a week. That doesn't happen.


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## carolinagirl

yeah I agree....I have seen some pretty nasty looking GPs too.  Thick coats and no brushing don't go together very well, no matter what the breed.


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## KRYSTINA TOWNES

christy_was_here said:


> Are rough collies (like Lassie) a herding breed or a guardian?
> 
> I'm looking to add a good farm dog to my barn/house to deter predators and people and was thinking maybe a collie would be a good choice. I grew up with a very protective collie and think they might be a little more manageable than a pry or anatolian who likes to roam a large perimeter and may not be as people friendly, which is important here.
> 
> I need a dog who can be intimidating when needed, but friendly otherwise. I realize a collie probably wouldn't be much of a threat to a coyote, but, (praying) I have yet to have an issue with them and I've kept chickens/ducks for the past 7 years.
> 
> To be honest, I am feeling a little vulnerable too because with the economy where it is there are a lot of shady people coming around the area and several of my neighbors have had stuff stolen from their barns and sheds. Part of me thinks a pry would be such an awesome protector for me and the goats/birds, but I just don't know what to do...
> 
> Thanks for  reading this and your advice, comments!
> 
> Christy


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## KRYSTINA TOWNES

I got a 14 week old full blood rough collie to help guard the chickens.  The first thing he did was chase them.  I tried to teach him not to.  By the third day he killed one of our chickens.


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## KRYSTINA TOWNES

christy_was_here said:


> Are rough collies (like Lassie) a herding breed or a guardian?
> 
> I'm looking to add a good farm dog to my barn/house to deter predators and people and was thinking maybe a collie would be a good choice. I grew up with a very protective collie and think they might be a little more manageable than a pry or anatolian who likes to roam a large perimeter and may not be as people friendly, which is important here.
> 
> I need a dog who can be intimidating when needed, but friendly otherwise. I realize a collie probably wouldn't be much of a threat to a coyote, but, (praying) I have yet to have an issue with them and I've kept chickens/ducks for the past 7 years.
> 
> To be honest, I am feeling a little vulnerable too because with the economy where it is there are a lot of shady people coming around the area and several of my neighbors have had stuff stolen from their barns and sheds. Part of me thinks a pry would be such an awesome protector for me and the goats/birds, but I just don't know what to do...
> 
> Thanks for  reading this and your advice, comments!
> 
> Christy


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## KRYSTINA TOWNES

I brought home a full blood rough collie puppy to help Herd the chickens.   First thing he did was start to chase them .  I would disapline him and chain him up every time he did this.  By day three he had killed one of our chickens .


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## Donna R. Raybon

Lassie type collie usually does not have much eye, so not as bothersome to chase stock as say a Border collie.  They are more of a drover dog like the German Shepherd.  These dogs were used to drive herds between high walled fields along road.   But, I would not leave anything but a LGD penned with livestock myself.  

Find someone who  has LGD and in same conditions you want yours to be and buy from them.  By that I mean if their LGD are laid back around people, etc....   A GP or a GP crossed with another LGD breed is probably best fit for you being a first timer unless someone is close by to help mentor you with other breeds.  

However, a LGD is a great judge of character and intent.  Listen to them!  My dogs were lovely with folks as long as I was with them, it was daylight, and they were not making livestock run screaming (do not let children 'play' rough with livestock!)  Often we had folks on the place who reated our tobacco and were coming and going.  Once dogs were introduced and people went to field the dogs ignored them.  Our goat pen bordered the road and more than once I arrived home to find strangers in the barnlot, with children in tow 'petting' the goats.  The LGD just lay there with long suffering looks and allowed.  BUT, nobody was trying to catch a goat, make it scream, etc...


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## Baymule

KRYSTINA TOWNES said:


> I brought home a full blood rough collie puppy to help Herd the chickens.   First thing he did was start to chase them .  I would disapline him and chain him up every time he did this.  By day three he had killed one of our chickens .


He is a puppy. Chickens are the ultimate squeaky toy. When they stop moving, just catch another. Great game, except it makes us mad. 

Are the chickens in a fenced area where your puppy can be where the coop is? I would suggest to not let the chickens out, take him in the coop, spend time and patience with him. Praise him when he behaves himself, scold if he gets too "interested" in the chickens. If the coop is in his yard, they will be protected until he gets a little older and doesn't want to play with them so much.


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## Baymule

KRYSTINA TOWNES said:


> I brought home a full blood rough collie puppy to help Herd the chickens.   First thing he did was start to chase them .  I would disapline him and chain him up every time he did this.  By day three he had killed one of our chickens .


He is a puppy. Chickens are the ultimate squeaky toy. When they stop moving, just catch another. Great game, except it makes us mad. 

Are the chickens in a fenced area where your puppy can be where the coop is? I would suggest to not let the chickens out, take him in the coop, spend time and patience with him. Praise him when he behaves himself, scold if he gets too "interested" in the chickens. If the coop is in his yard, they will be protected until he gets a little older and doesn't want to play with them so much.


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## Baymule

KRYSTINA TOWNES said:


> I brought home a full blood rough collie puppy to help Herd the chickens.   First thing he did was start to chase them .  I would disapline him and chain him up every time he did this.  By day three he had killed one of our chickens .


He is a puppy. Chickens are the ultimate squeaky toy. When they stop moving, just catch another. Great game, except it makes us mad. 

Are the chickens in a fenced area where your puppy can be where the coop is? I would suggest to not let the chickens out, take him in the coop, spend time and patience with him. Praise him when he behaves himself, scold if he gets too "interested" in the chickens. If the coop is in his yard, they will be protected until he gets a little older and doesn't want to play with them so much.


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## Donna R. Raybon

This is old timer trick to deal with misbehavior ....  get a five gallon bucket and fill with empty plastic pop bottles.  Into each bottle, drop about three or four gravel.  You want enough weight to be easy to throw, make noise, but won't  hurt anything.  Put the bucket(s) of loaded bottles where handy.  Catch dog doing something wrong and hurl bottle at him with 'NO!'  Used this a lot on both the LGD puppies and in training BC sheep trialing.   After a few days, it got so that all I had to do was shake a bottle with rocks in it and dog knew to stop doing whatever it was doing and go find something else to do.  

Another, is to put about fifteen or more feet of light weight parachute cord on collar so you can easily catch pup and all they need is a quick jerk on the line if caught in the act of doing something wrong and again 'NO.'   

It is all about timing and you have to actually catch the pup THINKING about doing something wrong right when they begin to act upon it.   

If unsupervised, I would not leave a young dog where they can get to any type of poultry.  Just too tempting a play toy!!


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## Donna R. Raybon

This is old timer trick to deal with misbehavior ....  get a five gallon bucket and fill with empty plastic pop bottles.  Into each bottle, drop about three or four gravel.  You want enough weight to be easy to throw, make noise, but won't  hurt anything.  Put the bucket(s) of loaded bottles where handy.  Catch dog doing something wrong and hurl bottle at him with 'NO!'  Used this a lot on both the LGD puppies and in training BC sheep trialing.   After a few days, it got so that all I had to do was shake a bottle with rocks in it and dog knew to stop doing whatever it was doing and go find something else to do.  

Another, is to put about fifteen or more feet of light weight parachute cord on collar so you can easily catch pup and all they need is a quick jerk on the line if caught in the act of doing something wrong and again 'NO.'   

It is all about timing and you have to actually catch the pup THINKING about doing something wrong right when they begin to act upon it.   

If unsupervised, I would not leave a young dog where they can get to any type of poultry.  Just too tempting a play toy!!


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## Donna R. Raybon

This is old timer trick to deal with misbehavior ....  get a five gallon bucket and fill with empty plastic pop bottles.  Into each bottle, drop about three or four gravel.  You want enough weight to be easy to throw, make noise, but won't  hurt anything.  Put the bucket(s) of loaded bottles where handy.  Catch dog doing something wrong and hurl bottle at him with 'NO!'  Used this a lot on both the LGD puppies and in training BC sheep trialing.   After a few days, it got so that all I had to do was shake a bottle with rocks in it and dog knew to stop doing whatever it was doing and go find something else to do.  

Another, is to put about fifteen or more feet of light weight parachute cord on collar so you can easily catch pup and all they need is a quick jerk on the line if caught in the act of doing something wrong and again 'NO.'   

It is all about timing and you have to actually catch the pup THINKING about doing something wrong right when they begin to act upon it.   

If unsupervised, I would not leave a young dog where they can get to any type of poultry.  Just too tempting a play toy!!


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## Donna R. Raybon

Sorry for multiple posting???  Don't know what caused it.


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## Baymule

Donna R. Raybon said:


> Sorry for multiple posting???  Don't know what caused it.


Mine did the same thing. LOL I like the way you think. I like it so much that I liked all 3 of your multiple posts, LOL. Rocks in a water bottle--I like that. Better than the coffee can I threw at my GP over and over again for taking down a lamb and gnawing on it's head when he was a pup.


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## Donna R. Raybon

When I raised GPs they went through a stage at about six to thirteen months where they loved the ducks to death.  No skin broken, but would just find a duck that was totally sodden/slimey with dog spit.  The females seemed to get over that phase quick and the males took forever.  Not all the pups did this and they never bothered geese, guiena, or chickens. In cooler weather I often would find duck still alive and unharmed, but in summer they probably were killed due to overheating as much as being wooled about and slobbered on.  GPs have puppy brains until about two years old on at least some things.


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## BrendaMNgri

This thread was started in 2011. I don't think the OP is around anymore.


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