# Disgusted



## GD91 (May 30, 2014)

Pets at Home in the UK needs seriously re - evaluating.
I had a call yesterday from a woman in tears who bought 2 rabbits & a hutch from them a month ago after being told by a member of staff that 2 standard pet rabbits were indeed suitable for children.
The outcome was she bought the 2 bunnies, the hutch, & small sacks of their most expensive feed, hay & shavings, feed dish & water bottle for the children.

A month on (the rabbits are 16 weeks by now) she's calling me in tears in response to an advert I had posted saying I was offering homes for older rabbits. She's working full time & the kids no longer want the rabbits because the rabbits don't want to play with them & she hasn't got the time etc etc....
So I said I would after making the point clear that rabbits are NOT generally suitable companions for small children since they don't like being picked up & cuddled & cannot offer the social companionship & play that most children want from their pets. I wasn't horrible, just explaining the truth of it because I get sooo many rabbits taken on from owners who make this mistake.

So she has travelled 20 miles to get to me, given me these two lovely 16 week old lops & the hutch for free etc & left. 

The first thing I noticed was that 2 rabbits were a bit underweight. It soon became clear why. The food dish supplied to the lady from Pets at Home was a pretty pink plastic, but it was _FAR_ to small for 2 rabbits to have food supplied once a day in. It was 2 cm deep by 5cm & she had been feeding both of them once a day. These are pretty large standard rabbits.
And then there was the hutch! Its 2 levels of 3ft x 1 ft with an open base so the rabbits could dig out very easily & the wire doors were tiny & very awkward, yet it cost £120! Who the hell would sell this contraption to person whom has chosen 2 rabbits for her children & obviously had no clue about their care at the time? Also the rabbits had been confined to this "hutch" with nothing to chew on except thin wood, so their teeth were overgrown. 

Thanks to Pets at home I have not had to pay out any money at all for new rabbits so far. I just post an advertisement & the people are queuing up to dump their rabbits & supplies / equipment. 
What I'm noticing is the equipment they are leaving with their rabbits here are usually completely unsuitable for the size of their pets or the number of pets they may have.
For people whom are inexperienced with rabbits & seeking help or assistance, that pet shop (from what I'm being told & seeing with my own eyes) is dolling out a lot of bad advice & selling unsuitable products with the pets. Pets at Home might be going under, but that is no good reason to be selling pets & products in any way possible without putting the animals welfare first! 

The biggest complaints I'm getting from the owners have been:

The rabbit is / grew too big.

It doesn't like being picked up / cuddled.

Its scratching / kicking / biting / harming the kids.

Its too expensive.

They buy the expensive hutch & run, then realize the rabbits too big for it / unhappy & don't want / can't afford to to buy new equipment so they rehome instead. And that's where I fit in. 

The rabbit is destructive / bored.

The rabbit had a litter & they are scared it will happen again.

The rabbit seems stressed constantly because it cannot deal with the noise & quick movements of the children & being grabbed at.  



I think it really needs to get out there that rabbits are a prey species & are not suitable pets for young children. I feel so much pity for all the rabbits I've been taking in & adding to my stock (I breed mutts anyway) after their quarantine. Some of the rabbits have arrived traumatized from childrens rough handling (I've got another one now), underweight from misfeeding, weak muscles from lack of exercise, sores on their hind feet from unsuitable flooring & it all keeps leading back to the major pet store Pets At Home giving out misinformation or unsuitable products when they bought the rabbit/s. The owners are often ranting about what they were told or at least seem put out when they leave the rabbits here because the rabbits care & behavior became completely different to what they were told by the staff.

Its only rabbits from Pets at Home being donated to me, I don't seem get rabbits from other sources which makes me think maybe other pet shops & breeders are more honest about the rabbits care & requirements.

Do you think I should inform someone about my concerns or what?

I want to upload pics but my new phones not supported by my PC  But the 2 new does are in a 6x4ft secure run now with shelter & a larger food dish. They were very hungry. Very cute to


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## Baymule (May 30, 2014)

Bad for the poor rabbits and their new owners, but works out good for you. Maybe a call to a local TV station, if they have one of those consumer special reporters. They love this kind of stuff.


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## GD91 (May 30, 2014)

Not so good. Just had to cull both of them, one doe was sneezing, wheezing & coughing consistantly & I feared she was displaying early symptoms of snuffles so it was an immediate cull for them both. Posted a thread in the disease section. Might be heading towards my first disease outbreak  lesson learned.
Got a doe, 14 kits & a buck to care for  would be just my luck to have a pasturella outbreak. 
Why do I never think of these things.....


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## alsea1 (May 31, 2014)

Quarantine all new arrivals. Will be a pain but allows you to bring on new animals without undue risk to existing stock.


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## Hens and Roos (May 31, 2014)

I agree about quarantine, I heard to many stories about people not doing this and running into problems- happens not only with rabbits but chickens too.


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## GD91 (Jun 1, 2014)

Well I'm having problems. Woke up this morning with a runny nose & a bit of a cough. One of those rabbits scratched me yesterday. Pasturella is not contagious to people is it?


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## happy acres (Jun 1, 2014)

I don't think so. You probably just caught a regular old cold.


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## goatboy1973 (Jun 1, 2014)

GD91,

I got this article from a nursing journal I subscribe to, very interesting.
*Read this*:  Bacterial organisms from the Pasteurella species live in the mouths of most cats, as well as a significant number of dogs and other animals. If your child is bitten or scratched by an animal that carries Pasteurella organisms such as Pasteurella multocida, these bacteria can enter the body through the break in the skin. They most often cause a potentially serious infection of the skin called cellulitis. On occasion, these bacteria can be spread to humans from an animal’s saliva or nose mucus.

*Signs and Symptoms*
Symptoms of cellulitis usually begin after a very short incubation period, typically within 24 hours after your child has been bitten or scratched. He may develop swelling, redness, warmth, and tenderness of the skin, sometimes with discharge of pus. In some children, lymph nodes in the area of the infected skin may become enlarged and chills and fever can occur. Complications may be present in some children, including an infection of the joints (arthritis), bones (osteomyelitis), and tendons (tenosynovitis). Less frequently, youngsters may have pneumonia, urinary tract infections, meningitis, blood infections (septicemia), oreye infections.


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## GD91 (Jun 1, 2014)

Oh great  well the cuts a bit red around it & my nose has been a bad all day with runny clear & colored snot (sorry TMI) & I've got a tickly cough. Been hot, but its a very warm, airless day here anyway.  For the common cold, otherwise I'll have to see the vet, um, doctor. 

Apart from that I've felt fine  all the animals seem fine today to. I'll keep this thread updated for a bit I think. 

Did it say anything about adults?

The woman I got the rabbits off of had children & I've got no way of warning her to keep an eye out.


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## goatboy1973 (Jun 1, 2014)

The same thing goes for adults. There's also a meningitis caused by this bacteria and a pneumonia also but both are very "uncommon" per the journal.


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## Bunnylady (Jun 1, 2014)

I would think that getting a serious infection from a rabbit scratch should be ranked as "possible, but rare." Every rabbit owner I have ever known has been scratched  countless times - it just  comes with the territory. Since this was a nursing journal, I'm assuming the article was concerned with hazards to humans from animals, so I doubt it also pointed out the hazard to animals of developing an infection from bacteria that they pick up from people who handle them - though that can happen, too.


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## GD91 (Jun 6, 2014)

Don't know about it, but I've had a bad cough & a runny nose since I dispatched them . The animals seem ok though. That was a a few days ago now.


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## Clarabelle (Nov 12, 2014)

I believe that the only disease that can be passed between humans and rabbits is meningitis aka strep throat


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## David (Nov 18, 2014)

tulmaria "frenchmens sickness" is a zoonotic ? that can be passed to people through scratchs  or when forced to be airborne when butchering   about 90 cases a year of it are recorded 

if you have celluilitus  should see a doctor that **** can get nasty I had it from a saw blade cut and couldent use my knee for a month


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## animalmom (Nov 19, 2014)

There are many forms of Pasturella and most of them are animal specific however, I had a rabbit come down with pasturella and it was suggested to me by the vet to disinfect my hands prior to handling my other animals -- be they other rabbits or my goats.  The vet didn't feel that I could come down with something disgusting from the poor rabbit (who has recovered).

Yes quarantining new animals is the best advise, not always followed.

Regarding your question as to what you could do about that rather unethical pet pushed, I gather you are in the UK?  Could your equivalent to the US SPCA or Humane Society do anything?  (SPCA Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals)

It is incredibly frustrating to  come across such rampant stupidity as exhibited by that organization.  Each Easter season I keep an eye out at the local feed stores to ensure the baby bunnies and chicks have feed/water in containers the animals can use.  Doesn't do the bunnies any good if their pellets  or water are covered in hay since they don't have the thumb to remove the hay and no mom to show them to just eat the hay.  I tell the clerks and go home and worry about the bunnies.


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## GD91 (Nov 20, 2014)

Well, the good news was:
A) I didn't die 
B) My quarantine measures are a success because nothing spread + I have hardy stock anyway.

But I've got yet another 2 coming soon  a buck and a doe. Same story, they were bought and not sexed properly, the doe had a litter, blah de blah. Not sure where from - a friend is taking them for me until I can collect them.
They will either be culled or added for breeding stock. Probably culled unless they are something special.
Seriously though, these "owners" don't even care.
According to my friend a random guy just spotted her rabbit in her front garden and asked her if she wanted 2 more. Then he said he'd bring them to hers tomorrow and just drove away. This was yesterday.

Am I missing something? My rabbits are kept mostly for meat and even I take far more responsibility for them all than these "pet owners."

The word pet owners just sits on my tongue. As these animals were bought as pets, and as such members of the family, shouldn't their owners be more than happy to pay for any vet bills such as spaying etc.

A lot of rabbits I get are house rabbits which come in large (and small) cages. I wonder how their owners can keep them in the house on a personal level before simply dumping them elsewhere?
Do these people not read? Do they not watch the news or the adverts? Are they exceptionally thick?

As you can probably tell I disapprove of people who dump their pets on others, particuarly when it happens without even a backward glance. Sometimes these rabbits do miss their homes and owners and pine a bit and demand a lot of attention when I'm going around the garden.
It really is very sad.
I can't even rehome them even though so many of them have such lovely personalities. Nobody wants them, so I have to cull them anyway otherwise I would have 60+ rabbits by now. As it stands I have 7.

Not one of these pet owners uses common sense i.e Ok, we have had an accidental litter, so lets do some research and cull the kits at a certain age and then spay the doe and castrate the buck.
Oh, no, instead its "Oh my god, she's had babies, oh I knew this would happen! What are we going to do? We can't kill them, lets just try and rehome them or give them away and then these rabbits will have to go, we can't have this happen again."
That is just an example of one of many things I hear.
And this is were the issues are happening. People are just so soft and conditioned to the "no kill" mentality that they won't cull the kits and then pay for the spaying of the parents. Instead they are struggling to find them homes where there are very little or sending them to rescue centers which are also struggling.
I'd say its as bad as, if not worse, than the situation with dogs and cats.
I have great sympathy for the rabbits being delivered to me. I just wish that the people breeding them irresposibly and not taking any responsibility for the kits would stop.


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## Kyonarai (Apr 18, 2015)

You can treat pasturella with Vibactra plus tincture drops. Doesn't have to be an immediate cull. There is always the chance of a rebound, but I haven't had to much trouble.


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## Onyx (Apr 18, 2015)

Hmm... I had pet rabbits as a kid and loved them.  I don't think I'd make a blanket statement like "rabbits are not suitable pets for children".  Rather that people need to be MUCH more well educated in what to expect when they get a rabbit or rabbits so they do not have misplaced expectations.

Children getting a pet rabbit is by far the most common way for people to enter the rabbit breeding/showing fancy.  Which is already struggling in many places as it is.

I don't think the issue is that rabbits are not good for children.  The issue is that people are clueless, and even with this amazing research tool we all now have at our fingertips called "The Internet", people instead go in and rely on the advice of someone who is trying to SELL them a product... it boggles the mind.

Children also need to be taught that animals are not stuffed toys to be hauled around for their amusement.  A child is perfectly capable of enjoying interaction with a rabbit sitting on the floor/grass, and what a great opportunity to teach them about respect for animals, and that every living creature is different and has different needs.

Owners need to be educated about the "teenage monster" stage in rabbits, too, because I find that this is when most rabbits end up being dumped or rehomed because people think the rabbit has become "mean" and will remain that way.

FULLY agree regarding pet stores selling animals and supplies.  Having worked in a couple of pet stores and been friends with a Petsmart regional manager... I can say that the ONLY thing most pet stores are interested in is selling product, which includes animals.  They do not care in the slightest whether the animals or supporting products are healthy/suitable and the sad thing is.... despite being given bad advice and being tricked into buying bad products time and time again, people will keep going back to the same store, so there's really no incentive for change.

Would certainly never encourage anyone to buy a rabbit from a pet store.  You have no idea where they came from, how the parents were raised, any health issues or illness etc... if you wouldn't buy a puppy from a pet store, why buy a rabbit?  I wish people would support their local breeders instead.

Sorry to hear about your pasteurella woes, that is definitely not a fun thing to go through :/


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## Keljen (Apr 21, 2015)

Well I love to go in Pets Stores ...employees in this Stores do not like me hi hi hi .
My Hubby got the Idea having Rabbits because he knew I was researching Backyard Chickens but Chickens are not allowed in our Village. So Meat rabbit was our new search word at Google for Month and our Town Liberian was phoning once a Week that the ordered Rabbit books are in.
Most of the People would do a Internet research for their new Car  .... for Month( and longer depend on Gender ) ,but to pick up  and read a Book for the new Pet is too much to ask for.


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