# dairy goat for cold climate?



## homesteadinmama (Apr 20, 2011)

Hi there I am wanting milk for my family of 6. Not sure about breeds that tolerate new england winters. How many goats should I'd have for us to have milk and chz? Any advice or recommendations would be greatly appreciated!


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## PattySh (Apr 20, 2011)

We keep our goats inside the barn for the winter here in VT. We have a mixture, oberhasli/alpine, alpine, Nubian,  a mininubian, NubianX's. They all do well.  I think it depends on how well the goats you get milk. I would start out with a few and see how you like milking. I am milking 5 right now. I milked 3 last year and this year got a machine. Takes less time to milk the 5 than handmilking 3 last year. I do hand milk from time to time to keep them used to it and to see who produces what.  My mini nubian produces as much as the oberhasli/alpines. I like the Nubian and Nubian X's for the butterfat content.  We staggered breedings over a few months so the milk would not run out. Where are you located?


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 20, 2011)

I know that there are a few of us in New England, and between us there are a few different breeds. I have Nigerians and Nigerian/Pygmy crosses.

Personally, I am looking to start a breeding program to get the "perfect" herd. I want to introduce some kiko into the bloodlines for more self sufficientness(they can bulk on primarily just forage), Angora to give my herd thicker coats(better for the N.E. winters), and last but certainly not least, I will be talking with a friend who has either Toggs or Aplines, about setting my nigi-pyg bucklings up with his girls for his next season's freshenings(hopefully we would get 1-3 mini-dairy doelings from him).

Edited to add: Nigerians also have high butterfat content milk, which can be made higher by feeding at least 1 cup of BOSS(Black Oil Sunflower Seed) per day.


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## Ariel301 (Apr 20, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> I know that there are a few of us in New England, and between us there are a few different breeds. I have Nigerians and Nigerian/Pygmy crosses.
> 
> Personally, I am looking to start a breeding program to get the "perfect" herd. I want to introduce some kiko into the bloodlines for more self sufficientness(they can bulk on primarily just forage), Angora to give my herd thicker coats(better for the N.E. winters), and last but certainly not least, I will be talking with a friend who has either Toggs or Aplines, about setting my nigi-pyg bucklings up with his girls for his next season's freshenings(hopefully we would get 1-3 mini-dairy doelings from him).
> 
> Edited to add: Nigerians also have high butterfat content milk, which can be made higher by feeding at least 1 cup of BOSS(Black Oil Sunflower Seed) per day.


If this is a dairy herd, you're going to have a heck of a time getting good udders and high production back onto them after breeding in the Kiko and Angora. It would be so nice if there was one goat that could do everything lol.

LaManchas do fine in the cold. The bonus with them is that they don't have big ears to get frostbitten. Just had to find an excuse to push them, I love my Munchies.


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## homesteadinmama (Apr 20, 2011)

Sorry if this is a stupid question but can you get butter from goats or only cows?........we are a butter lovin family. I am reading a book about dairy goats only on chapter 1, but it says the fat stays suspended in the milk vs. cow milk seperates easily.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 20, 2011)

Ariel301 said:
			
		

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I am a dreamer, I know, but I know that in every breed there are the occassional "WOW" goats that have great udders... I am just hoping to find someone willing to let me breed my Pup to their outstanding doe... It might be an almost impossible hope, but oh well.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Apr 20, 2011)

I am in Alaska, I have Nigierians and they have done really well. I did not have a heated building for them and they all turned out great. I have heard Nubians don't handle our cold winters here, but not sure about New Englands.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 20, 2011)

homesteadinmama said:
			
		

> Sorry if this is a stupid question but can you get butter from goats or only cows?........we are a butter lovin family. I am reading a book about dairy goats only on chapter 1, but it says the fat stays suspended in the milk vs. cow milk seperates easily.


ep, you sure can make butter with goat's milk! I would assume the higher the butterfat content, the better.
http://www.webexhibits.org/butter/doityourself.html
This recipe says heavy whipping cream, but later on, under various options it mentions a temperature for goat's milk.


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## PattySh (Apr 20, 2011)

Livinwright Farm wrote:

 Angora to give my herd thicker coats(better for the N.E. winters), 



I've had Angoras and they do not tolerate wet weather at all.  I wouldn't think the addition of Angora would help for warmer coats. Angora Pygmies (Pygoras) are awfully cute tho. My daughter bred a chocolate colored angora buck to her pygmies and the babies  were adorable.

Hey how does the quote button work I can't seem to figure it out!!!


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 20, 2011)

PattySh said:
			
		

> Livinwright Farm wrote:
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> Angora to give my herd thicker coats(better for the N.E. winters),
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Oh, they wouldn't be out when it is wet out(just like my current herd). Yes, Pygoras are absolute cuties!
You should just be able to click where it says Quote at the bottom of someone's comment... is it not working for you?


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## Ariel301 (Apr 21, 2011)

You can make butter from goat milk. The problem is, that goat milk is naturally homogenized (like they do to store bought milk so the cream won't rise) and very little cream rises. Like a few tablespoons per gallon. So, unless you have a cream separator machine, it's going to take a really long time (or a lot of goats) to save up enough to make butter.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)

Ariel301 said:
			
		

> You can make butter from goat milk. The problem is, that goat milk is naturally homogenized (like they do to store bought milk so the cream won't rise) and very little cream rises. Like a few tablespoons per gallon. So, unless you have a cream separator machine, it's going to take a really long time (or a lot of goats) to save up enough to make butter.


From the bit of research that I have been doing since the OP posted the question about goat's milk butter, I have found that the average refrigerator wait for adequate seperation is 3-5 days. Then skim the cream and use the remaining milk like whole milk or for making cheese. The skimmed cream can be stored in a container(fias co farm used a 2 qt container) in the freezer while waiting for more cream to seperate & be added. Repeat the process until the freezer container is full, then thaw to correct temp and start the process.
My guess is that it would take roughly a week and a half to collect one 2 qt container of cream.  If you don't mind the wait, I am sure it will be worth it.


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## RockyToggRanch (Apr 21, 2011)

Toggenburgs...of course 

My barn is open all winter and the girls go out in the snow. They get thick long coats in the cold weather and shed out in early spring. My buck doesn't shed his long outer coat, just his thick undercoat. I may clip him this yr...

The 3 I milked last yr ... 2 gave me a gallon each and my FF was under 1/2 gallon, but that was probably due to here tiny teats being ungraspable...word?

Tug Hill area of Northern NY....bbbrrrrr and holy snowfall!


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## helmstead (Apr 21, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> From the bit of research that I have been doing since the OP posted the question about goat's milk butter, I have found that the average refrigerator wait for adequate seperation is 3-5 days. Then skim the cream and use the remaining milk like whole milk or for making cheese. The skimmed cream can be stored in a container(fias co farm used a 2 qt container) in the freezer while waiting for more cream to seperate & be added. Repeat the process until the freezer container is full, then thaw to correct temp and start the process.
> My guess is that it would take roughly a week and a half to collect one 2 qt container of cream.  If you don't mind the wait, I am sure it will be worth it.


Hooey.  You MIGHT get a tablespoon per day, MAYBE two...per goat.  It takes FOREVER to collect cream via this method (I tried once, finally fed what little I had to the cats).  You'd NEED a cream separator.


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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Livinwright Farm said:
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Yup, try a couple of months.  I did it and found that if I used gallon containers I could skim a couple of Tbsp of heavy cream into a container that I kept in the freezer.  Then I thawed it out when I had a quart and made a pathetic little bit of white butter.  It was a novelty but not worth the effort.  There is a reason why goat butter sells online for something like $15 per pound.

http://www.amazon.com/Meyenberg-Goat-Milk-Products-European/dp/B001T3GFH4

If you want butter, you need a Jersey or Gurnsey cow.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)

freemotion said:
			
		

> helmstead said:
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I'll give it a try anyways... I don't have much to do other than feeding, cleaning, and routine maintenance here... I might even try making a cream sperator  hmm... ... yeah!


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## RockyToggRanch (Apr 21, 2011)

I made butter once shaking a glass jar...it was yummy, but a lot of work :/


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Apr 21, 2011)

My brother made butter with milk in the blender, it took just a couple minutes. He was using raw cows milk however.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)

I will say, the first thing I posted about making butter, was using non-seperated cream... so using fresh goat milk should be more than fine. just keep running it in the food processor until the glob is seperated from the buttermilk.


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## PattySh (Apr 21, 2011)

Sorry raw goats milk will not turn into butter nor will raw cow's milk, with both types of milk you need to use just the cream the collects on the top of the milk (or a seperator). It's the reason I have a Jersey/Holstein heifer in my barn  that I plan to breed very soon. We've raised her from a calf.  No way I want to clean all the parts of a seperator so that's where the cow comes in . Once you have the cream,  a jar, a blender, food processor, mixer or ice cream maker all will do the deed. With goats milk the butter will be white unless you add coloring.


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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

If you put, say, a quart of milk into your food processor or blender (that's about all mine will hold without making a mess) you will get something like a teaspoon of butter.  Maybe.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)




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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

Not so much of a hijack as the OP did ask about butter.....   Or should I say


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Not so much of a hijack as the OP did ask about butter.....   Or should I say


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## Jake (May 25, 2011)

The best cold weather goat that I know of, bar none is the Saanen, they were developed in a cold country in Europe, and withstood very cold temps for me in upstate NY with many days below 0 in Jan and Feb, they do like shelter and stand together, but if they have a roof and wind protection and straw or other bedding they took the NY winters quite in stride.

almost as hardy is the Toggenberg but the Saanens give more milk. 

I dont know of any goat breed that is used for butter, but, they do make excellent yoghurt, and I love the Feta cheese from their milk.


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## mydakota (May 25, 2011)

I keep Boers for meat and Saanens for milk.  We had a cold winter this year with one cold snap of -13 and another of -5.  Lots and lots of zero to 10 weather.  Both did very well.  I do have goat shelters and they were bedded, but no heat source of any kind.


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## minnesotachickenbreeder (Nov 20, 2011)

I know a man who has had Saanens here in Minnesota for many years. I know he keeps the buck in a simple A-frame shelter over winter.


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## SmallFarmGirl (Nov 20, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> [url]http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/signs/smiley-vault-signs-076.gif[/url]
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> [url]http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/signs/smiley-vault-signs-080.gif[/url]


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## Livinwright Farm (Nov 20, 2011)

Okay, for cheese making: you want Nigerians or Pygmy due to the higher butterfat content milk than the standard dairy breeds.
For drinking: any standard dairy breed will do, but I have heard from a few people that Toggenburg milk tastes better.
For fiber collection: it depends on whether you want to shear off the fiber or comb out the soft winter fluff... 50/50 Angora crosses are ones that get sheared for their fiber, all other breeds (including mixes) you comb out the winter coats in mid spring.


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## Roll farms (Nov 20, 2011)

I've made more cheese than you can shake a stick at w/ Nubian milk...their milk is pretty high in butterfat.  Not AS high as a Nigerian (but not as much work for me to milk, either) and forget it, I'm never attempting to milk a pygmy again.

I also tried the butterfat skimming thing for about 3 days.  I bought a cream seperator but my tendonitis / carpal tunnel wouldn't let me operate it.
Then I went and bought cream at the store and made butter...I used the churn my late Father-In-Law used as a child...  Tasted just like butter....I decided that for .75 I will just keep buying it....but it's nice to know I *could* make it if I wanted to.

Toggenburg milk tastes downright wierd to me, compared to Nubian or Oberhasli milk.  It has a 'stronger' flavor / odor - not as 'sweet'.  All of the Togg milk I've tasted was that way.  

You can also get cashmere from from other breeds, some of my boers have downright thick cashmere coats in winter.  Probably not as good, quality-wise, but it is cashmere and it can be combed out.  Had a few Kikos who got cashmere, too.

It gets fairly cold here (average temp in Jan / Feb. is 15 degrees - with lows down to -10 some nights) and I've had Nubs, Boers, Obs, Toggs, Pygmy, Kikos, Boers- and crosses of every variety - and none seemed to fare any worse than the others.  Goats in good condition will grow an adequate coat if they're 'used' to the climate and will do ok if given adequate shelter.

Also, FWIW, I've never lost an ear on my Nubs or Boers to frostbite.

Livingwright, I read once where you said your pet peeve is when people reply to a post with "I don't know the answer but....".  
I realize you want to help, and answer as many questions as you can / share your knowledge, but sometimes an opinion based on 'what you've heard / read' really isn't as much help as good old experience.


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## Livinwright Farm (Nov 24, 2011)

I would have mentioned Nigerian Dwarf as being my preferred drinking milk, however, many do not view tham as a DAIRY breed, definitely not as a standard dairy breed.
Everything other than that part is my personal experience... and even that was not a "I don't know the answer, but..."

Most of what we(as people) decide, is based on what we hear from others...  If you grow up hearing from your family, friends, and neighbors that chicken feet are not food, odds are that you will never try them for yourself(chinese favorite, btw).  Or if you hear from enough people that a certain auto body deals crookedly, you probably wouldn't bring your vehicle there to be checked out/ worked on.


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## Roll farms (Nov 24, 2011)

You misunderstood me, LR.  

I didn't want to come across as unkind, or you take my comment personally....because that's not my intent.... but I suppose if you can list your pet peeve, I'm ok saying mine.  

My pet peeve is when someone has no personal experience with an issue, still offers what sounds like a knowledgeable opinion, based on research alone.

You stated Toggenburg milk tastes 'better' - according to what you're told - taste a glass of Nubian milk (or Nigerian) and then chase it w/ Toggenburg milk.  Then, you'll have a knowledgeable opinion.

You stated you 'want' Nigies or Pygs for cheese making - Any standard breed milk will 'make' cheese, Nubians, being higher in butterfat, are best of them, but ANY of them will make cheese...and it takes a LOT of milk to make cheese.  
I'd much rather use my standard girls for cheesemaking....that's based on the fact that I have milked both a pygmy and a Nubian.

I am not a sheeple, I do my own research and make up my own mind 90% of the time.  I won't eat chicken feet simply b/c it's nasty (to me).  The Chinese can eat 'em all they want to.

On a side note, I'd read in the past where you said you had made butter from goat's milk in a food processor...I even told someone they could try that, based on your post.
Now, if I'm reading correctly, that's just a theory you have, but it actually not a method you've tried???


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## Livinwright Farm (Nov 24, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> You misunderstood me, LR.
> 
> I didn't want to come across as unkind, or you take my comment personally....because that's not my intent.... but I suppose if you can list your pet peeve, I'm ok saying mine.
> 
> ...


I am not sure how else I could have taken it, but personally, especially where the comments were directed to me... :/

It is not that I "want" Nigerians of Pygmys, I HAVE Nigerians and am expecting Pygmy cross babies in March thanks to a breeding with our ex-buck & her Pygmy doe... so no need to want.  

I said that I have heard (from those who have Nubians, Saanens, Alpines, Obers, and Toggs) that they prefer the flavor of Togg milk for drinking out of the standard dairy breeds. I do plan on doing a blind taste test at somepoint this spring, but it will require collecting milk from all of my friends' herds, as I only have Nigerians... well 8 Nigerians and 2 Nigerian crosses.

I stated that Nigerians have a higher butterfat content milk than any of the standard dairy breeds, which is a fact, not an opinion... so for cheese making, their milk is the optimum choice. However, out of the standard dairy breeds, you are correct that Nubian is higher. If you had a couple Mini-Nubians(Nubian x Nigerian or Pygmy) then you would have a better butterfat quantity... with teats not much different from the Nubians in size.

I have *made* goats milk butter in a food processor, following the exact directions found on the website that I posted on one of the threads here, after I had tried the method myself. It does work, and quite well. I have had many members here tell me that I might get as much as 1 Tablespoon of butter from 1 quart of milk, but that is far from the truth, and I do not own a cream seperator.  It comes out snow white in color unless you have them on the lushest of grass and hay... IE: those that have herds in Ireland, should see some natural yellowish color to the butter.

I was not accusing you of being a sheeple, and I sure hope you wouldn't imply that I was one. As I said, we(mankind) make most decisions on what to buy, eat, or where to bring something for service based on what we hear from others about those things. If you were Chinese, I am 98% positive that you would have no thoughts towards chicken feet as being nasty... here in America we(all of us to one extent or another) have become a bit picky with what we deem edible... our throw-aways are a priceless feast to 3/4 of the people in this world.

None of what I have said has been said in a mean hearted way or with even the slightest bit of snarkiness... so I hope you haven't/won't take it that way.


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## elevan (Nov 25, 2011)

Taste is subjective to the person doing the tasting.  So any comments regarding xxx goat breed has the best milk for drinking is an opinion of the poster only.

It is also fact that you can milk any goat and that any goat milk can be made into cheese.  You will also get a higher volume of milk from a standard size dairy breed, but a nigerian dwarf isn't anything to sneeze at.  While pygmies can be milked (and I have them and do) they do not produce the same volume of milk as dairy breeds.

Mini Nubians are a Nubian x Nigerian Dwarf (_not _pygmy)
Kinders are a Nubian x Pygmy


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