# Rate her condition



## mystang89 (Jun 8, 2019)

My favorite ewe was off mom duty this year so she could recover from lambing last year. I still see indentations in both her sides that make her "look" malnurished but it's been over a year and she is eating fine. I had her checked for parasites and she was negative. Thoughts.


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## animalmom (Jun 8, 2019)

I'm a goat person, but she looks pretty good to me.  I'm sure some of the sheep people will be on shortly and give you a much better opinion.


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## AmberLops (Jun 8, 2019)

I used to raise sheep...
She looks just fine to me! But i'll tag some sheep people for their thoughts...
@Sheepshape @secuono @Ridgetop


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## Baymule (Jun 8, 2019)

She looks good to me too. I have two ewes that always look thin on top, have wide spread ribs, pot bellies--and have and raise twins every year. They sure wouldn't ever win any beauty contest and I'll bet that nobody would buy them, but to me they are priceless.


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## Mini Horses (Jun 8, 2019)

You realize, with age, they do have some body shape changes.  You may want to consider that.   Often toplines cannot be held and belly looks pouched.   It all comes with use and age.  Doesn't mean she isn't healthy if she Is still getting good nutrition. Always good to keep watch and monitor.


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## Sheepshape (Jun 9, 2019)

She looks in very good shape to me. Not too fat, not too thin.

The comments of my 'predecessors' are spot on......older ladies don't have the same taut and pert shape of young ones! If my old girls had been sheared (still waiting) I'd take a pic. Prominent hip bones and sunken  areas with big bellies and floppy udders. Some of these girls are 10-11 and have had lambs for most of those years and everything has gone south, but they are fit and fine.

Take a feel across the back just below where the ribs end. I'm sure that you'll feel that there is a good covering of meat either side of the central vertebral spine, which itself is not too prominent. You should be able to just about feel the transverse processes of the vertebrae, but there's a good longitudinal band of muscle filling the 'gutter' between the central spine and the transverse process.

If she's in this condition at 'tupping' time, she'll be in ideal shape.(for an older girl).


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Jun 9, 2019)

G'day,i would have no problems putting her to the ram,like others have stated as you get older "gravity takes over"...T.O.R.


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## mystang89 (Jun 9, 2019)

Thanks very much. I didn't think that at 2 years old she'd start getting all "floppy" on me already lol but it's great to hear everyone say that. I did run my hands over her back and she's plenty of meat there. Really goes to show that even after 3 years of shepherding I'm still a beginner and have plenty left to learn, which I'm good with. Thanks for the tips and info as always.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Jun 9, 2019)

No worries, you might consider using "body scoring"as a way of determining  readiness for joining,look for a BS of about 3.5 as a start and try to keep them below 4.0 as they come up to lambing...T.O.R.


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## secuono (Jun 9, 2019)

Both look unusual, a bit roach backed? 
Are they a fattail breed? Possibly they fill out differently than other breeds.
At two, I wouldn't be happy to see an ewe looking like an old maid. How many did she have?
Have you run a fecal & checked eye lids? 
Are they on pasture or hay? Full belly, mine don't have sunken loins, is she eating enough in a day of hay/grass?


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## mystang89 (Jun 9, 2019)

secuono said:


> Both look unusual, a bit roach backed?
> Are they a fattail breed? Possibly they fill out differently than other breeds.
> At two, I wouldn't be happy to see an ewe looking like an old maid. How many did she have?
> Have you run a fecal & checked eye lids?
> Are they on pasture or hay? Full belly, mine don't have sunken loins, is she eating enough in a day of hay/grass?


They are fat tailed. Love that little tail.
She's only lambed once but she had twins when she did.
Ran a fecal and she was clean. I'm not sure what the eyelids mean. I've stared long into those star lit eyes pondering the meaning of life but they never said anything back to me. 
They are on pasture with the only hay they eat being what we put down as bedding.
I'm not sure if she's eating enough during the day. Is there a way to tell? I see her going out and grazing but I'm not out there with her all day so I'm not sure just from looking at them during the day.


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## Baymule (Jun 9, 2019)

Sheepshape said:


> ......older ladies don't have the same taut and pert shape of young ones!
> 
> Prominent hip bones and sunken  areas with big bellies and floppy udders.
> 
> ...



Are you talking about sheep or women?  laugh snort  giggle


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## mystang89 (Jun 9, 2019)

Haha, I wasn't even going to step into that one.


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## secuono (Jun 9, 2019)




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## Sheepshape (Jun 10, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Are you talking about sheep or women?


Yes....and men, too. Gravity is the enemy of old skin......don't I know it! I think I have a skin a  few sizes too big these days


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## mystang89 (Jun 10, 2019)

secuono said:


> View attachment 63090


I'll go have a check today while I get done pics as well.


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## Baymule (Jun 10, 2019)

Sheepshape said:


> Yes....and men, too. Gravity is the enemy of old skin......don't I know it! I think I have a skin a  few sizes too big these days


Those phrases just jumped off the page at me and made me laugh.


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## Mini Horses (Jun 10, 2019)

Sheepshape said:


> I think I have a skin a few sizes too big these days



I know, I know!!      Like "only" the skin grows...I think someone is stretching it at night!!


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## Baymule (Jun 10, 2019)

And just who said that it could get so wrinkly?


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## B&B Happy goats (Jun 10, 2019)

I was having the same thoughts...


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## Sheepshape (Jun 10, 2019)

My skin looks fine UNTIL I put on my specs.....there again I can barely make out my face without them on......just some darker blobs on a lighter surface.


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## mystang89 (Jun 10, 2019)

Had my son take the pic while I held her. Looked fine to me.


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## Purple Mountains Farm (Jun 10, 2019)

This is my first day on the site and I've already learned so much from you folks!!! I was a bovine/equine person growing up, now getting into sheep. I thought some similar ideas as others mentioned; going with the vertebrae, the tail area and belly.  I did however first think the ewe was 4-6yo rather than 2 going on 3. I believe there are some very good inquisitive helpful people aimed to help out Mustang89. Overall, I believe this is a wonderful site for us want-to-be-farmers like me and farmers who've been at it a very long period of consecutive time.  For those highly experienced farmers/ranchers, I especially thank you for your contributions!


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## mystang89 (Jun 10, 2019)

Welcome to the site @Purple Mountains Farm ! I haven't been doing so all that long and 90% of what I know comes from the people here. 

That same poor ewe got her horns stuck in the fence today. I can assure you that she does NOT move like an elderly lady when you're trying to free her lol.


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## Sheepshape (Jun 11, 2019)

mystang89 said:


> Looked fine to me.


Nice red colour. That young lady is as fit as a flea.Someone, however (and I'm not saying it's you) has a taste for nail and cuticle!



mystang89 said:


> I can assure you that she does NOT move like an elderly lady when you're trying to free her lol.


 Neither do elderly ladies if it comes to that.....they suddenly get the strength of a tup on steroids. No doubt, this troublesome YOUNG lady will spend her whole life giving you worries, but you'll be captivated by her. I have a little old ewe (aged 11) who sticks her head through fences, lamb feeders etc (one way only) and breaks into containers of food, silage bales and neighbours fields.....but I think she's a star.

Good luck with that one.


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## mystang89 (Jun 11, 2019)

Sheepshape said:


> Someone, however (and I'm not saying it's you) has a taste for nail and cuticle!


LMBO!  First time I've laughed that hard at 7am in... Ever. The mail and cuticle are fine garnishes to any platter 

I'm glad she's doing well and yes, she is by far my favorite sheep. I look forward to a long while to go with her.


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## mysunwolf (Jun 11, 2019)

@mystang89 is this an Awassi ewe? They tend to carry weight a bit more like a dairy sheep, so while they'll look sunken in around the hips when you do traditional body condition scoring, check their ribs like on a dairy cow and you should get a more accurate picture.


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## mystang89 (Jun 11, 2019)

mysunwolf said:


> @mystang89 is this an Awassi ewe? They tend to carry weight a bit more like a dairy sheep, so while they'll look sunken in around the hips when you do traditional body condition scoring, check their ribs like on a dairy cow and you should get a more accurate picture.


She is an Awassi. Thanks for the tip. I'll check up on how to check the ribs on dairy cows right now.


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## mystang89 (Jun 11, 2019)

mysunwolf said:


> @mystang89 is this an Awassi ewe? They tend to carry weight a bit more like a dairy sheep, so while they'll look sunken in around the hips when you do traditional body condition scoring, check their ribs like on a dairy cow and you should get a more accurate picture.


Just looked up the conditioning for cows. That was helpful. Thanks


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## mysunwolf (Jun 12, 2019)

mystang89 said:


> Just looked up the conditioning for cows. That was helpful. Thanks



I'm glad! We struggle with accurately judging BCS with our East Friesians, who tend to be even more sunken looking, and looking at the ribs has been very helpful.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 12, 2019)

First, condition does not mean that her belly will be swollen.  Condition refers to the amount of fat covering over her ribs, spine, and bones.  *There are some very good articles on-line showing exactly what you want to feel when checking for condition.  And exactly how and where to check.*  Feeling the ewe's ribs, spine. rump, and shoulders is the only way to check her condition.  You want to feel some muscling and fat over the bones, but not too mch.  You should be able to identify the spinal process even though it is covered in muscle and some fat, and just feel the ribs under the fat/muscle.  If you can't identify that the bones are there, she is too high in condition.  A ewe too high in condition may not take when she is bred, while a ewe too low in condition will have trouble producing good quality and quantity of eggs.  Ideal condition to breed is 3.5.

If the sheep are on rough forage, they will have a larger belly since their rumens are working to capacity.  But the hollow is not cause for worry.  Since she is not pregnant she is not be filling out with lambs.  An open ewe usually has small hollows right in front of her hips.

If this ewe is only 2 years old, and has only lambed once -  raising one set of twins - why did you decide not to breed her this season?  Unless she was much older, and had a hard time raising her last set of lambs, there is no need to skip a breeding season.  Once livestock are in a breeding program, they should be kept producing unless there is a severe health reason to stop.


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## mystang89 (Jun 12, 2019)

@Ridgetop Thanks much for the clear succinct advice. Perfect. On feeling her, everyone so far had been spot on. She's perfectly healthy. I didn't breed her last year out of an abundance of caution and a lack of knowledge, fearing that she wasn't in good shape to breed. She is definitely breeding this year!


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## Sheepshape (Jun 12, 2019)

mystang89 said:


> She is definitely breeding this year!


Good call. Ewes often get way too fat if you don't breed them. My grass isn't growing well this year, but the ewes who didn't have lambs are already 'porky'.......can a ewe be 'PORKy'? One or two of them (not sheared yet, so difficult to be too accurate) appear to be fatter than I'd like them to be.....one even has the 'fat roll' just above her tail. These ewes are Beulah Speckled Face, a 'thrifty' hill breed which maintain their condition on pretty poor rations. They will need to be left on a pretty bare field for a month or two before tupping time.

That girl looks in peak condition.....


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## Ridgetop (Jun 22, 2019)

The 'thrifty" breeds are a little harder to get into breeding condition because they are such easy keepers.  Standard breeds can be brought up in weight with extra grain but those thrifty breeds will put on weight so easily that they can get over conditioned.

After years of English breeds, then Dorsets (aso esy keepers) I now have Dorpers - which are "bred to live on rocks and cactus"!  LOL  I was worried about flushing them before breeding, however, the 2 yearling ewes weaned their single lambs in good condition so we did not flush them like we would have done with our old Dorsets, Suffolks, Hamps, etc.  We put the 2 ewes and a virgin yearling ewe into a small field with heavy forage with the ram wearing his tupping harness.  The field had lots of forage and we simply continued the small amounts of rolled barleycorn we had been feeding at night while they were nursing lambs.  After they had almost eaten off that field (fire control) we started them on half portions of alfalfa to keep their body condition up during breeding.  They are bred now, and we have pulled them away from that ram and put them in with 5 other ewes and another ram (with a different color crayon).  If they recycle and rebreed we will know which ram sired the lambs.  Since they are registered Dorpers we need to know the sire on the ewe lambs - the ram lambs will be wethered for freezer sales.  The second field has a lot of forage left in it and areas we cut for fire clearance have the cut grass and weeds left dry on the ground.  The sheep and mule will clean up the cut forage.  The new larger flock will stay in that field until lambing.  We bring them into a night fold and feed a half feed of alfalfa at night with a barleycorn ration. 

Easy keepers and thrifty sheep breeds need different management practices from standard English downs breeds.  Most hair sheep are easy keepers so we need to be able to determine the condition scores of our sheep in order to adjust our management and feeding practices accordingly. 

By the way, I just read an article by Ulf Kintzel about the different nutrient rate between green pasture grazing and dry pasture grazing.  He has lots of extremely interesting articles posted on his website - White Clover Farms in New York state.  They range from rotational pasture grazing through nutrition, breeding and lambing, parasite resistance, building lambing pens, chutes, etc.  Lots of good information from a real sheep farmer with experience in Transhumance shepherding in Germany, and a degree in Agricultural Engineering.  The articles are easy reading and easy to understand.  Oh, by the way, the _dried_ forage has higher nutrient value per lb. than green since the green forage has higher amounts of water per lb!  I was relieved to hear that since I was feeling like a poor shepherd having only have green forage for very short times of the year - the rest of the year everything is dried out.


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