# Do you ever use the word "overface"?



## ducks4you

When my gelding threw me in 2004, and people asked me what happened, I told them that he was "overfaced."

I kept repeating the term, nobody questioned it, they just nodded with understanding.  FINALLY, DH asked me, where in the heck did I come up with that word?!?

I have read "overfaced" now numerous times, in the Net and on two forums, mostly regarding horses.  I never learned to spell it in school.  I don't think that classical writers, like Dickens ever used the term.  
So whatcha think--is it a new word, like "prioritize"?
Is it just a word used in horse communities?
I'd like to know what you think.
BTW, I defined it regarding my gelding, in that he experienced a situation to which he had not been prepared.


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## goodhors

I would say "overfaced" is a very OLD horse word.  For us, the meaning is similar to yours, putting a horse in a situation that he is not prepared for and expecting horse to manage it.  

The most common use I hear of overfaced is in jumping.  This is heard when folks cram a horse into doing height when he hardly knows how to manage strides and approaches to his fences!  "Gosh he QUIT on me and fence is ONLY 3ft!!  Stupid horse."  Well YEAH, he has no skills to go over bigger fences yet!!!!  I hate people who do that to a nice horse.  The typical next step is to use their whip to force forward and horse crashes the jump.

It takes time, building both confidence, muscle, to get a horse going smoothly, reliably over SMALL fences of 12 to 18 inches.  Then you build on skills with small height increases, more challenging courses of jumps with turns and decorated fences.  This is NOT a 30 day training period.

I also will hear overfaced with cattle work, young horse, stubborn cattle that he can't move in cutting or stock horse work.  We use overfaced with young driving horses, folks who expect more than horse is ready to face with traffic or ring competions that have other horses and vehicles in with him.  On our personal horses, we say after 100 hitchings the young horse has reached "green horse" status in Driving.  That 100 hitchings are repetitive, building his basics in making him solid with commands and responses to driver.  He is reliable mostly, willing to believe that we will care for him and not let him get hurt when asked for "forward".  He will try the steep hill, both up and down, probably do puddles with no resistance and many other things.  We do Combined Driving, so our horses need to be very reliable, willing, and accepting of the odd things we ask of them.  Driving wrecks are nasty, we DO NOT want them happening to us.  So building a good horse is important, time consuming, no hurry-up stuff done here.

Guess hearing the word will depend on whom you hang out with.  Lots of older jumper riders, trainers using it.  Not so much with Western folks.  Hearing it more in the carriage driving circles now that expectations of the horse are so much higher.


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## patandchickens

I'd say that's a perfectly normal and common horsey word, and OLD.

I think it's just one of those things that is normal in one sphere of life and not around much in others -- like "yaw" or "compositae" or "scansion". If you're talking with (respectively) a pilot or boat person, or botanist, or English major, those are perfectly normal and unremarkable terms; if you're not, you get a lot of blank looks.

I am guessing these were not horse people (at least, not lifelong English-riding-background horse people) you were talking with?

Pat


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## michickenwrangler

I've been riding English for almost 25 years and I've never heard of it.


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## adoptedbyachicken

Overfaced is a very common old horse word here and used often.  Everyone in horses here would know what you meant.  It's more common in jumping but even ropers here know it, I have heard them use it for horses that get jumping about when a roping gets too fast or a range calf gets them unsettled.


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## LauraM

I've been an instructor for nearly 30 years, and heard that term back when I was in the first year of Pony Club as a young rider.  It's very common around here, though most people around here would expect it to be related to jumping, and not just any situation.  The term is used almost exclusively in regards to a jumping situation, particularly trying to make a horse jump something that is beyond his ability (mentally or physically) to get over.


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## adoptedbyachicken

I guess rethinking this the term also has to do with the future behavior of a horse given that they have been overfaced.  So a horse that gets upset or bulks at a certain thing, or anticipates in a negative way can also be said to have been or is overfaced at ... {insert oxer jumps, creek crossings, whatever}


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## w c

It's often used to describe a horse that was pushed to jump higher than it was ready.  It's also common to use when a person buy s a horse that is too strong, too quick or too athletic for them...or too big gaited so the person is flying out of the saddle at each step.

I wouldn't use the word to describe a horse that just didn't want to do something or wouldn't go forward when asked.

Most non horse people have never heard the term.  They might understand 'overmounted' or better, most would understand 'rushed in training'.


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## ()relics

Yep...I understand it as putting your horse in a situation that is unfamiliar to him and _Expecting_ he won't make you pay for your mistake.


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## Niftynates

"Goodhors" posted the answer that I was looking for!  As for "priortize", I can only offer what is in my head.  Now, that it's a year after you posted your question, you no doubt know that prioritize is not particular to horse talk.  Language is constantly being updated, by speakers, conceiving shortcuts, new words to cover situations for which there was no word, or that required a phrase to convey the meaning of the situation.  Add to this, words that just seem cute, and cool, as "threepeat".  Language purists, and lexicographers, gag and puke at these ugly corruptions.  These classicists, don't swing much meat, or get much respect.  They always lose the battle to keep the language "pure."  This is a huge and interesting subject.  To be perfectly pedantic, I refuse to use, new words such as "conceptual",  or misuses, as "impact", etc., etc.


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## goodhors

Kid of funny to see this topic again.  We just went to look at a young horse who had photos posted with
her driving in a large cart, being ridden in a group.  Guy seem quite straight forward about everything,
said she had been with various folks, a trainer, learning to do things driven and ridden.  However horse
was not used that way for long periods of time or consistantly since then.

He had a young Amish man who would be the rider and driver for the horse, since the man himself has 
had recent back surgery and was having trouble even getting about.

Horse was a bit nervous with all 4 of us in her barn aisle to do grooming and saddling.  She was good, just
"looky" to keep track of what we were doing.  Never offered any resistance or bad behaviour, but her 
eyes were WIDE open watching.

First demo was riding.  She stood well to be mounted, but did not have a CLUE what the reins meant.  
Rider had to really put his arm out to lead her around bends and corners.  Very slippery ground didn't 
help, so we went out to the larger field.  She was a bit smoother in larger circles, but didn't understand
any give to the bit for bending around in large circles, needed quite a bit of encouragement to keep going
at the walk and trot.  Wanted to go back to the barn, even with the gate closed.

The to the Driving part.  The guy had no harness fitted to her, so we had to make a lot of adjustments in
getting the parts fitted on her.  Then he pulled out a light, 4-wheeled wagon with STEEL tires.  Husband
asked him about using that, was told that he had never hitched her to it before but she should be fine with
it on the road in front of the farm.  Just go up and down to try her gaits.

Husband and the Amish guy did the hitching, modifying to fit the wagon, while I headed her.  Horse was again
REALLY LOOKY but kindly stood quietly.  Amish guy hopped in the wagon and asked her to go.  It was pretty
slow and awkward going.  Much hesitation, couple steps, halt, look around.  Ask again, some more forward, 
head bent but not body for a turn.  Lots of ear movement with the SQUEAKY tires on stone, pretty noisy.  Husband 
went up by her head and straightened her out on the road, but no forward.  They tried encouraging her 
with voice, some leading steps, but she didn't want to go.  Husband led her to the field, thought soft dirt might 
help with no stone noise, but not much improvement.  She had no clue how to follow the rein, just bent her head.
When encouraged a bit more strongly, she backed, jack-knifing the wagon, which then tried to tip.  Husband 
grabbed her head to pull forward while the Amish guy jumped clear of the wagon.

Husband said she was being overfaced, time to stop.  Trying to MAKE her do anything more was going to turn things
into a bad situation when she finally gave up on US.  We unhitched her and husband then drove her from the ground,
seeing how she responded to new ways of being "ASKED" to go in circles, bending neck AND body.  Then we stripped 
off the harness, put her away.  The owner still had no clue of the problem.  She had DRIVEN BEFORE, did fine, ridden 
before, no issues.  The Amish guy was nice, but had never heard "overfaced" term before.  Once I explained it, he 
was in agreement about the horse.

Not trying to "talk down" to the owner about what we were seeing.  He is a long-time draft horse owner and user, so
not a raw beginner in training young horses.  We explained that "in OUR experience" the young horse needs to be used 
for quite a while in the basic equipment, get familiar with the cart (which can't bend or fold like a 4-wheeler.  Learn how the 
cart feels when pulled uphill and down, on rough ground with jerks and twists over holes and bumps, various types of 
ground surfaces like sand, rocks, pavement.  She has to have this as a single horse, no partner to MAKE her go along, 
which is fairly common in Draft circles.  And even though this horse has been ridden and driven, she had no TIME being 
used to give her any depth to the training.  Driving in a ring, just keeping her on the fence may not get any steering 
developed.  Firm surface makes pulling the light cart easy, and rubber tires that makes no noise on most surfaces.  She
is young, has to learn to be brave in pulling weight, holding weight back on downhills.  Needs to be a lot smoother in 
following the reins, so she can do turns easily, circles to learn bending her body, not just her neck.

She was a big "maybe she will work" for us, photos were mostly terrible in the advertising.  Our hearts were not committed!!
But worth the POSSIBILITY that she would match enough to work out for us, to make the long trip to see her.  First look
in real life was that she was almost a dead-ringer for the gelding we lost last year!  Same shape head, short neck, bulky
body, just redder.  Of course with more looking, she was NOT him, but sure made her appealing!!

We chose not to purchase, but offered some ideas the owner may want to try.  He has the Amish man and his brothers to 
use for local training, get her going better.  The Amish guy did not seem to be the kind to force work on a confused horse.
But he also saw the holes in her, no skills in riding or Driving.  Hope they give her some more training time to learn her jobs,
gain the confidence she needs to be a happy worker in a cart, wagon or under saddle.  She has the POTENTIAL, to be a really 
nice driving horse, and probably ride nice too, but that won't happen in 30 days or by forcing her to do stuff now.  

She really didn't match our other horses, who we want to partner with, legs too short, stride was seemingly too short as well.
Wouldn't be able to keep up.  Husband said she needed at least another year of REGULAR work, starting at scratch, to have 
her ready to go with our horses.  He didn't want to put in that time, when she already didn't match well.  

She sure was overfaced with all the owner thought she knew.  Sometimes just changes in equipment, like using the wagon 
instead of a cart, probably scared her.  Going to 4-wheels in Driving is a bit step, more weight to pull, have to be SOLID in 
steering and commands.  She wasn't any of those things.  She tried backing away from the weight she was 
pulling because it was too heavy, didn't know how to follow the reins for wide, easy turns to not bind up the front wheels on
the wagon.  Glad we stopped when we did, did nothing to make her bad for more work.  Left her on a good note, with her 
working pretty well out on long lines.  Husband explained what we were seeing in horse reactions.  She was not quitting, not
 being stubborn or disobedient.  She just did not understand what we were asking, despite her training times at other places.
She needs more consistant work,as often as possible, to get the confidence installed that she CAN do what is being asked of her.


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