# Do goats get..



## lupinfarm (Dec 15, 2009)

impact colic? Bloat is similar to gas colic, but can they get impact bloat?

Just curious after dealing with my pony not drinking much, she is now btw, but i was curious about goats and colic/bloat.


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2009)

I recently had a 9 week old buckling come down with an impaction back when the weather started changing and water consumption dropped.  Of course, it's the same as a colic, but goat people don't CALL it colic, they call it bloat even though it's not exactly a bloat.  It was our first experience with an impaction in a goat, leading me to believe this isn't that common of an occurance.

It WAS diagnosed by a vet, BTW, so I'm not guessing at it.  Ironically a fellow producer in my state had the same issue with a buck the same age at exactly the same time.  

He survived it, and is off living with his new owner now 

There are things you can do to increase water consumption in animals during the winter to avoid colic...adding a flavorant (like Kool Aid) that they enjoy, added electrolytes and table salt to feed, or a flavorant PLUS electrolytes like powdered Gatoraid to the water.  When possible, heating the water _slightly_ in the cold weather will also increase consumption.


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## cmjust0 (Dec 16, 2009)

Why do you emphasize _slightly_ on heating the water?  

I ask because we used to bring warm water to the barn at night when it got cold and they'd go nuts...but then the water would cool and freeze really quickly.  So then we started bringing HOT water down thinking they'd drink when it cooled off enough for their liking, and would perhaps be available longer......they loved it.  LOVED it.  Like, right out of the water-heater hot...hot enough that I prolly couldn't stand to wash my hands in it. 

We were a little weirded out at first and thought...man, that can't be good for them...but then we figured they knew best and it's not hurt anybody yet.

Is there something I should know?


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2009)

AFAIK there isn't an immediate risk to HOT water, but when the idea is continuous steady consumption...you want just slightly warmed water always available, not a couple times a day offering hot water.  You don't want to take a bath in it, but bitterly cold isn't appealing to any creature unless it's the heat of summer.

You can even just go so far as to put a fish tank heater (wrapped in metal like chicken wire) in the buckets if you're using small enough troughs (of course you have to secure these WELL as they are a fire hazard if the goats are able to remove them from the water).  Large stock tanks will require an actual tank heater.


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## ()relics (Dec 16, 2009)

helmstead said:
			
		

> ..........
> You can even just go so far as to put a fish tank heater (wrapped in metal like chicken wire) in the buckets if you're using small enough troughs (of course you have to secure these WELL as they are a fire hazard if the goats are able to remove them from the water).  Large stock tanks will require an actual tank heater.


I never thought of that but I'm going to try it today....Maybe some PVC pipe with some holes drilled in it to protect the heater...I wonder how much my electric bill is going to go up? I doubt those heaters are too energy efficient.....


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2009)

Now - granted, our electric bill is always high (runs approx $350 to $400 a month)...BUT...we used to breed african cichlids and had no fewer than 6 tanks constantly running in the house (all show tanks and then brooding tanks).  We shut them all )except one show tank) down in preparation to move and sold off most of our fish, and I didn't notice a difference in the electric bill...

On the other hand..I can REALLY tell when I have all the heat lamps going in the barn!!!  :/


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## FarmerChick (Dec 16, 2009)

anyone carrying hot water to livestock is (for lack of a better word) strange to me (unless the severity of the weather is such the animal can't survive)    nature is cold water in winter, warmer in summer.

my herd drinks cold water in winter--never a problem

and the colic is bloat to a rumen

rumens are not ever the same as another animal...they have their own "definations and class of problems"  LOL

My automatic stock water keeps the water above freezing to give liquid water and not ice, but it sure isn't warm and everyone drinks.....if truly some critter is not drinking there is usually other factors involved

(remember also that animals are brought into environments that would not be natural  to them....like a goat in Alaska..LOL---and some means must be improvised to ensure their survival obviously)


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2009)

This annoys the crap out of me...because it makes NO sense whatsoever.

Impaction colic is NOT the same as bloat, and I just cannot figure why "they" want to call it that!  Now, sure...spasmodic or gas colic would be called bloat.  An impaction might LEAD to bloat...but it's a whole different monster.

A blocked intestine is a blocked intestine, no matter WHAT species it's in.

Back to my hole...


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## cmjust0 (Dec 16, 2009)

helmstead said:
			
		

> AFAIK there isn't an immediate risk to HOT water, but when the idea is continuous steady consumption...you want just slightly warmed water always available, not a couple times a day offering hot water.  You don't want to take a bath in it, but bitterly cold isn't appealing to any creature unless it's the heat of summer.
> 
> You can even just go so far as to put a fish tank heater (wrapped in metal like chicken wire) in the buckets if you're using small enough troughs (of course you have to secure these WELL as they are a fire hazard if the goats are able to remove them from the water).  Large stock tanks will require an actual tank heater.


I see what you're saying now..  

We've actually got a 100gal tank with a de-icer out there for them, but the tank's nearer the house on account of I've yet to run electricity to the barn (  )...  So, basically, we just take a few jugs of fresh, clean, hot water to the barn at night so the goats won't have to venture too far out in the cold or weather to get at liquid water.

Ridiculous, I know, but....oh well.


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## lupinfarm (Dec 16, 2009)

I add hot water to their water a couple times a day, they never seem too interested in it but I only have 2 so it's not like the water disappears quickly ANYWAY. 

I might put some salt in their feed to get them drinking more though. I'm not worried about my goats, I was just curious. 

My goats don't have heated water cause they're a 100ft walk to the water tap and we don't have a plug on their side of the house so running a cord is not feasible. When they move to the old chicken house I will hook up power in there and get them a heated muck bucket too.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 16, 2009)

helmstead said:
			
		

> This annoys the crap out of me...because it makes NO sense whatsoever.
> 
> Impaction colic is NOT the same as bloat, and I just cannot figure why "they" want to call it that!  Now, sure...spasmodic or gas colic would be called bloat.  An impaction might LEAD to bloat...but it's a whole different monster.
> 
> ...


You are right.

bloat is a rumen definition
colic is a pasture animal condition along with human condition also
while both can have bloat alone also
LOL-LOL


I think it comes down to the number of stomachs involved

and then

impact in intestines is just that--impacted intestines..LOL


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## FarmerChick (Dec 16, 2009)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> I add hot water to their water a couple times a day, they never seem too interested in it but I only have 2 so it's not like the water disappears quickly ANYWAY.
> 
> I might put some salt in their feed to get them drinking more though. I'm not worried about my goats, I was just curious.
> 
> My goats don't have heated water cause they're a 100ft walk to the water tap and we don't have a plug on their side of the house so running a cord is not feasible. When they move to the old chicken house I will hook up power in there and get them a heated muck bucket too.


free salt is fine

salt in feed forced is not fine in cold weather when an animal might or might not drink enough to offset the sodium content


think like we would.....don't over give anything in harsh times like winter
if it wants salt it will take it, if it doesn't it won't....and the water issue will balance itself in the animal if you allow the animal to handle that balance alone


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## ksalvagno (Dec 16, 2009)

One thing I have learned from alpacas, don't count anything out and be prepared to see weird things that supposedly NEVER happen to alpacas. I've already seen plenty of that. I will be applying the same thing to my goats. When it comes to animals or people, you can be suprised as to what they can get. The longer you are in livestock, the more you will see. The more animals you have, the more you will see. Over 12 years of alpacas have taught me that much.

We all do what we have to do to take care of our animals. We do the best with the setups we have and the availability of water and electricity. Since I have electric in my barn, you can bet I'm using water heaters in all my buckets. I have a water hydrant in one of my barns so I'm not going to carry hot water from the house. So far all the animals are drinking their water just fine. It comes down to doing what works for you.

Also, I recently realized that my mineral was very high in salt. As soon as it got cold, they quit eating the mineral. I have found a new mineral with significantly less salt and they are eating mineral again. So I would be careful about adding salt and "forcing" them to eat more salt. They know what their body needs.


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## ThornyRidge (Dec 16, 2009)

When I had my new place built I was specific in barn.. absolutely had to have electric with own breaker box and high outlets accessible in each pen.   As a result in the winter I use the heated buckets - here in NE Ohio we know who cold it can be.. last year got down to 0 in my barn even closed up so the heated buckets were a lifesaver.. kept the water available at all times.. I also made sure to install a freeze free water pump in my barn.. now that it is cold I use a 5 gallon bucket each nigth to make up two special buckets of warm water -one for my does/wethers and one for the bucks.. trust me when I say they absolutely love this.. they greet me with the warm water entering the pen and before I can even get it hung up at least half of them come and drink out of the warm water.. think of it as a hot tea in cold weather for us!!!  and with my goats I notice they prefer and will consume large amounts of warm water only.. if water is too cold for their liking they will not drink until they know I have brought in the warm stuff.. I think they actually look for me to do this.. I use one of those submersible water heaters used to quickly heat water.. be careful a couple times I forgot and left it going to long and water was down right hot-I had to add cold to make it drinkable!

Karen what minerals did you end up finding????  I have given up on finding anything better and cheaper and am sticking with the Sweetlix.  Kalmbach was waaaay high in salt.. much lower in copper too.


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2009)

ThornyRidge said:
			
		

> Karen what minerals did you end up finding????  I have given up on finding anything better and cheaper and am sticking with the Sweetlix.  Kalmbach was waaaay high in salt.. much lower in copper too.


Look for ADM near you, I know it's common in IN...they have several loose mineral choices for goats.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 16, 2009)

I bought Kalmbach 2:1 goat mineral and Ragland Goat Builder Mineral to try. All the goats just were not eating the Purina Goat mineral at all. I looked at the tag and Purina has 41-45% salt in it. I'm assuming that in the cold they just weren't interested in the salt because they were all eating it fine before it got cold. But the other thing I noticed is that Purina isn't 2:1 for calcium/phosphorus which I figured was bad. But it was the same amount of copper as Sweetlix.

Anyway, I first put out the Kalmbach. No one would touch it. I'm not sure why. Compared to the Purina, the salt was low. It is 18.5-22%. The copper was minimum of 1650ppm and it was 2:1 for calcium/phosphorus. But I was even removing the "old" mineral daily and giving them fresh and they still refused to eat it.

Then I tried Ragland. Everyone is eating it up. The salt is 10-12%. The copper is 1750 - 1800 ppm. It is 2:1 calcium/phosphorus. The only thing about Ragland is that the Vitamins A, D & E are significantly lower than other minerals. Not sure if I need to supplement on these vitamins or not. But the goats are eating it and I'm thinking the copper is more important. I can't remember the cost but the cost wasn't bad either. I found it at Rural King in Wooster.

I noticed on the ADM mineral that copper is only 1150-1350 ppm. Don't know if these ppm differences make a huge difference but I was feeling like I wanted as much copper as possible in the mineral.


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