# Goats got in scratch grain - update and a question!



## ksj0225 (Mar 10, 2011)

4 out of 5 goats and my LGD broke in the barn, turned over a feed "trash can" and ate some scratch grain yesterday.  I was hoping the LGD ate most of it but 4 out of 5 of my goats have bad diarrhea now.

How should I treat them?  Two are pregant and one is showing signs of discharge so kidding could be any time...


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 10, 2011)

I would give them baking soda right away.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 10, 2011)

The diarhea is more than likely due to the amount that they ate of something they haven't had regularly. I give my girls(and even bucklings headed for freezerdom) 1 cup of scratch grain per week with no ill effects(not even clumpy poo). They should be fine tomorrow, just make sure they get plenty of water and hay.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 10, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> I would give them baking soda right away.


baking soda for diarhea..? 

 I have not heard of this application of baking soda before. How does it help? I know that it helps for bloat, gets ph balanced out... did I just answer my own question? <---


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## helmstead (Mar 10, 2011)

Baking soda for acidosis, probios, and C&D antitoxin...do not feed any additional grain for at least 24 hrs.


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## julieq (Mar 10, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Baking soda for acidosis, probios, and C&D antitoxin...do not feed any additional grain for at least 24 hrs.


What she said.


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## Roll farms (Mar 10, 2011)

julieq said:
			
		

> helmstead said:
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What they said ^


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 11, 2011)

Livinwright- Yes, the baking soda was for acidosis.


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## lilhill (Mar 11, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> julieq said:
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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> Livinwright- Yes, the baking soda was for acidosis.


gotchya!


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## cmjust0 (Mar 11, 2011)

lilhill said:
			
		

> Roll farms said:
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I'm gonna jump in and 6th the motion.  

So, how are they today??


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## ksj0225 (Mar 11, 2011)

All are doing good today, except my doe that is showing signs of kidding soon.

She is doing better, but is getting extra care today.  My husband went out early and have her some baking soda, karo, and water mixed up in a syringe.  We gave her free choice baking soda and pepto last night and pepto early this morning.

She is huge, so I think the laying around is do to the closeness to kidding, she was doing alot of laying around all week, before they broke into the barn.  She started discharge yesterday.

Good vibes for kidding!!!


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## ksj0225 (Mar 11, 2011)

Question, we just got our order in from Jeffers and this is the pribiotic I ordered...

Probios Bovine 60gm

How much should we give her?  (I'm at work, the product is at home)


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## Emmetts Dairy (Mar 11, 2011)

Glad thier doing better!!!  Mine raided the chicken coop a couple weeks ago!! It was mayhem!!!   The actually broke one of the chicken feeders!!  Crazy goats!! Always something!!

Best luck with your kidding!!


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## helmstead (Mar 11, 2011)

Please STOP giving Pepto!!!  You WANT her to scour, to clean out the bad stuff.  

IMO you should never, ever give Pepto to a goat.  Ever.

I give my little goats 10 units of probios...


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## cmjust0 (Mar 11, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Please STOP giving Pepto!!!  You WANT her to scour, to clean out the bad stuff.
> 
> IMO you should never, ever give Pepto to a goat.  Ever.
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> I give my little goats 10 units of probios...


Disagreed, 10,000%.

Pepto doesn't necessarily stop scour.  What pepto does, primarily, is coat the lining of the GI, which can be extremely beneficial when acidosis is suspected.  Acid does, afterall, eat stuff..  Much better it eat a bismuth coating than the stomach lining.  Pepto is also a bit of an anti-inflammatory and antacid.

Actually, in my humble opinion, this would be a *perfect example* of a time to choose pepto over, say, kaolin-pectin, as k-p is basically a 'binder' for loose stool..  Binding isn't so helpful in the case of acidosis since you'd basically just be binding acid together, but it may be helpful in cases where dietary scour seems to be going on a little longer than is very good for the animal...like, to the point of mild dehydration, etc..

And it's fine to let the animal scour out 'the bad stuff,' I suppose, but there's no need to A) let it come out as full-on acid unnecessarily, or B) do *nothing* to try to protect the gut lining in the meantime.  These are both things a producer can do easily, and both are to the benefit of the animal.

Just sayin'.

And for the record, I know this basically because I have a terrible gut, as did my dad, as did my grandmother, etc.  Believe me, I know my tummy meds and they're NOT all created equal.. 



(btw, all...name-brand Kaopectate _is_ Pepto these days..  Same stuff.  Check the label -- bismuth subsalicylate.  If you're looking for something specifically to bind loose stool, yer gonna have to get real, ol' school Kaolin-Pectin, most likely from a livestock/pet/animal supply house.  Just sayin'.)


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

I was reading in Raising goats for Dummies and it says that if scours are severe, give some kaolin pectin.

I will add that this is not the same thing as kaopectate. I know they sound the same and they are both for the treatment of diarhea, but that is where their similarity ends.
-Kaopectate is for adult human GIs 
-Kaolin pectin is for infant/child GIs and for use in animals. It is *much* gentler on their sensitive systems.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 11, 2011)

My take on scouring is that it's a symptom of a problem and is generally not in and of itself a problem (unless it's severe and putting the goat at risk of dehydration.)  I generally don't treat the scouring itself, particularly if it's just a simple case of grain overload.  My main concern would be keeping the rumen pH where it should be and the dietary scouring will resolve itself AND give you a clear sign that the rumen is a-ok when it does.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> My take on scouring is that it's a symptom of a problem and is generally not in and of itself a problem (unless it's severe and putting the goat at risk of dehydration.)  I generally don't treat the scouring itself, particularly if it's just a simple case of grain overload.  My main concern would be keeping the rumen pH where it should be and the dietary scouring will resolve itself AND give you a clear sign that the rumen is a-ok when it does.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 14, 2011)

I agree with that, but only to a point.  In my opinion, it simply doesn't have to be an either/or situation where you either treat the symptom or figure out the cause.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I try to do _both_ whenever it's possible, practical, and logical.  I see no reason, for instance, to let the acid in a goat's GI eat it up alive simply because I figured out the cause of the scour...  To me, that's senseless.

How many of us would look at a child and go "Well dear, you're squirting like a goose and your tummy hurts because it's full of acid that's eating you up from the inside out.  I could give you some pepto and antacid to make you feel better, but instead we're just gonna let it burn its way through your guts and roast your b-hole on the way out because...well...like I said...I know why it's happening, and that's good enough for me."


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## Emmetts Dairy (Mar 14, 2011)

Milk of Magnesia is what Ive always used for potential acidosis issues.  It will help restore PH in rumen and aid in moving the guts along.  Along with baking soda, Vit B, Thiamine.   

Off feed for 24 hours..Probiotics..then back with hay for a bit only to help the rumen balance off before introducing grain again. 

My understanding is that the PH in the rumen goes off balance and latic acid is formed and the lactic acid then enters the bloodstream.  Its not just a gut thing...although their gut controls their life pretty much!! Amazing animals those ruminants!!   Nevermind...went in a circle!! LOL!
right back to the gut!!!! 

Anyway...Im a Milk of Mag person myself! Been recomended more often than not for bloat by vets and farmers alike...IMO


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