# Buy another?



## raeleigh26 (Mar 1, 2016)

So,  we had a rough week,  we lost Val,  after a year of near zero production,  1 litter on the wire,  2 more than a week late,  one birth producing only 2 kits, and one litter with only 1 kit (how the heck? !) then nothing nothing nothing and only 5 surviving total the whole year.  We have no idea how old she was, but she died the day before she was due of unknown causes.  
We had a jug of water spill on Jill and her 2 week old kits (I have no idea who left it on top of the cage,  just stupid) in 32*weather, and lost all but one kit.  
This leaves me with one NZ buck and doe,  and I've been considering selling them and going with Flemish giants,  but I'd have to do some major changes in the barn to have big enough cages,  Idk if this is the right thread, but,  what would you do in this case? Buy another NZ , or sell off all of them and switch breeds? 
Val was the third doe we'd had breeding troubles with,  I've got several pairs of pet breeds, but our strain of NZ have always been pretty small as far as meat, even though the buck is 11 lb and the doe is 10 lb,  and we've been waiting several months before butchering, considering their small size.


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## animalmom (Mar 1, 2016)

Wow! 

Please keep in mind that this is what I would do...

I'd not go to the Flemish Giants as I don't think they will work well for you as their bone to meat ratio is not as good as say a Californian.  I understand the desire to change breeds and the reluctance to redo your cages, therefore moving to the California might be a good alternative for you.  I'd not continue with the NZ as it seems like there is a weakness in the NZ you had previously purchased.  Just seems that way.  There are other breeds that have good meat to bone ratio besides Californians; it is just that Californians may be easier to find in your area.

Buy from a breeder who also sells to 4Hers or FFAers doing meat pens.  In my experience those breeders have a solid handle on what a good meat rabbit looks like and they deliberately breed for those traits: long loin, heavy meat in the hips/thighs.  Meat breeders usually want to educated buyers on what makes a good animal and will show you their operations.  

Someone who breeds for show may breed beautiful animals but not meaty animals.  Nothing wrong with show stock, it just doesn't meet your needs.

While I was waiting for my replacement stock I would thoroughly clean AND disinfect the cages/feeders/cups/waterers previously used.  I'm not saying your previous stock was diseased, but rather I'm saying start off with a thoroughly clean slate.  Also keep in mind you WILL want to quarantine any new stock for at least 30 days before introducing them into your bunny barn.  Now, if your pet breeds are housed in another building then you have more leeway with the quarantine issue.  Always wash your hands well before handling new animals and moving to the older animals.  You have no idea, really no idea how quickly something nasty can move from rabbit to rabbit.  Again, not saying there is something nasty in your rabbitry, but why take chances.

Good luck with your decision(s), and keep us posted on what you do.  For every question someone raises there are others out there who would like to know the same thing.

Sing out with any questions, comments or anything else.  We are all trying to make decisions that work for us and out needs.


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## raeleigh26 (Mar 1, 2016)

I do know, actually.  Bought a lop doe, back when I only did 2 week quarantine,  and lost 2 adults, including her,  and 11 kits 5 days after putting her in the barn.  
I hadn't considered Californian rabbits,  but I will look into it,  I had NZ rabbits before,  and I don't remember them being so scrawny at butcher (11-15 weeks) but this stock just is.  
Our barn is hosed once a week,  we never switch bottles or feeders,  they go back to the same cage,  and everything is sterilized about once a month.  Id like to give my meat rabbits a colony, but I don't have the space atm,  thank you for the advice on breeds,  I will call the local usda and ask for info from the 4h groups. 
Side note,  my doe is 1/4 Rex,  I wonder if that affects the size of her offspring, but she's a great mom (Jill,  not Val) has always had 9-14 kits and all of them survive with little or no help,  but quantity does not trump size and quality.


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## goatgurl (Mar 1, 2016)

hey raeleigh26, I live a ways down the hill from you not far from I-40.  I have raised rabbits for just a couple of years, meat mutts basically.  I have a black nz, and a nz/cali cross does and a broken black buck.  I decided around Christmas that I wanted to try the production whites from texas a&m and found a lady in Checotah who raises them along with several different breeds and I ended up getting two more does and a buck from her to go with the others.  her rabbits seem good and healthy and I am pleased with the ones I got.  if you are interested just pm me and i'll give you her contact info.


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## Ebers (Mar 1, 2016)

I had a trio that was nz/cali cross that I was using as breeders about 2yrs ago & they were produding good size litters but they were having the same problem & growing out poorly they ended up much smaller than they should have... I ended up buying a new trio of black nz & they produced large litters that grew out just like they should, apparently my 1st trio was just genetically inferior as meat rabbits. I live in NE Oklahoma myself & it's not always easy finding good quality meat rabbits especially if you're looking for breeders but I've heard good things about a lady in checotah it may even be the same lady. I hope you get it all sorted out & I'm also interested in seeing how it goes


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## raeleigh26 (Mar 2, 2016)

Thank you,  I've looked into Californian rabbits,  haven't found any that weren't crossed back with NZ,  but I'm going to shift all of them around anyway,  haven't found a dutch doe for my buck yet,  or lion head doe,  so I may just sell off several of them, butcher my extras, and start with a new pair, since I'm not sure if it's jack or Jill throwing the scrawny babies.  
Jack is a big boy, very thick and dense,  and friendly,  but if I'm gonna change up, they all have to go.


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## Pastor Dave (Mar 2, 2016)

I have found crossed breeds do have more hearty stability. That being said, I am doing well with NZW. I do not know your diet methods on your pet breeds, but I have a regimen that works well for growth in my meat breeders and fryers.
I feed half hay to alfalfa pellets. My pellets are very good quality from a local hardware and feed store that gets them from some place in Terrehaute. I give a tablespoon Calf Manna to my breeders, 2 tablespoons to my lactating does, and once my fryers are weaned, they build up to half alfalfa pellets and half Calf Manna withing abt two weeks until butcher weight at 10 weeks. I also give them all abt a tsp of (BOSS) black oil sunflower seeds, and add 2Tb ACV apple cider vinegar to a gallon drinking water that all drink.
That doesn't help you choose breeds or large/giant size, but maybe you can get better grow out rates.


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## raeleigh26 (Mar 2, 2016)

They're on standard breeding pellets,  given Timothy and Bermuda hay,  grass on occasion, aside from mineral blocks and veggie treats from the kitchen or garden, no other supplements. 
The rabbits I had before (long story,)all did well on the same.  They're not malnurished,  just not nearly growing out as big as the other stock I had.  I'll try the calf mana, since I keep it on hand for my calves anyway, Jill is due to be bred back,  maybe I'll wait one more round before deciding thank you for the tip.


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## Pastor Dave (Mar 2, 2016)

@raeleigh26 , I was not at all trying to suggest they were malnourished. The Calf Manna was a tip given to me some time back, and it is high in crude protein so does stimulate quicker growth in rabbits. I have no idea what it does for speeding up calves, but I know a lot of folks supplement it to their sheep, calves, goats, and rabbits.
I had juggled with the idea of just organic feeding with hay and whatever grass or herbs and such I could rustle up vs. pellet feed. Everyone thought it would take 4-6 months for a litter to grow out to butcher weight, and the does might not be as fertile or effective producers. I did go ahead and decide on the pellet feed and hay, and then began the Calf Manna supplement within the first week or so. 
All we did 20-30 years ago was alfalfa pellets, and they all seemed to do well.


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## raeleigh26 (Mar 2, 2016)

I didn't think that you were implying that at all,  just clarifying how they were managed,  I think the pairs I've got just put out small offspring,  and I need to change up,  maybe buying a couple Californian or Flemish does to cross with my buck would increase their size sufficiently,  and I can back cross them to Jill and eventually phase her and Jack out of the mix without having related breeding stock.  
My original post expressed my exhaustion and frustration with how things have gone this year,  I'm also dealing with calves and horses and a flock of chickens I have to kill and waste,  about ready to throw in the towel and start over from scratch.


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## Ebers (Mar 3, 2016)

I haven't had good luck with calf manna it's my experience that they dig it out of their feeders & waste it for some reason.... maybe I didn't stick with it long enough to get em to start eatn it


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