# Fellow 'old pros'...I've got a stumper....



## Roll farms (Aug 11, 2010)

Found Raven down this morning w/ a 'classic' case of Listeriosis...partial paralysis, circling, high fever, etc.

She's low man on the totem pole in her pen and is always digging around for the last few bites, so I'm not surprised it's her....if there's a bit of some funky stuff left that no one else would touch, she probably would.

The buck and other 4 does she was with are fine.

All that aside....she's now on meds / in a stall....and for all the world looks to be having contractions.

I am 99.99 % sure she's not bred...or if she is, it's been in the last 10 days b/c she was in a pen w/ the yearlings, furthest away from the bucks, until 10 days ago....when she was put in w/ a buck.

So....is there any 'condition' (aside from labor/ miscarriage, obviously) that causes a goat to have contractions????

I wouldn't think a 10 day or less pregnancy would cause contractions?

Thanks in advance if you have any ideas.....it's always something....


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## ksalvagno (Aug 11, 2010)

Don't have any answers for you but I hope your goat does ok.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 11, 2010)

When you mentioned high fever + contractions, abortion was the first thought through my head as well..

But, like you, I wouldn't *think* such a new pregnancy would require contractions...we had one abort in her next heat after breeding -- three full weeks later -- and it was just a bit of blood and some stringy goo.  No discernable tissue...there was really nothing to *pass*, as it were, that would cause the cervix to have to dialate and all that..

The only other thing I can even imagine -- and this is just a total shot in the dark -- is that what appear to be contractions might just be some kind of neurological symptom related to brain-stem swelling and/or having an extremely high fever..  

FWIW...I had a really, really high fever as a kid and hallucinated for quite a while.  Fever hallucinations apparently aren't things a whole lot of people actually remember...but I do...and I was only about four or five.  I don't remember much else from that age range, if that tells you anything about what fever hallucinations are like.  

Suffice it to say that I'm a FIRM BELIEVER in the idea that animals can _literally go out of their minds_ with a fever..  It's hard telling what she's imagining herself to be going through right now..  Personally -- and this is just me, and it's based solely on what I went through -- I wouldn't for one second put it out of the realm of possibility that she's hallucinating her way through labor.

But...goats aren't humans, so that's obviously a whole bunch of speculation.

I'm assuming she's got about a half a jug of PenG in her already, plus banamine?


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## Calliopia (Aug 11, 2010)

Would a uterine infection account for the fever and contractions?  Does she have any discharge at all?


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## Roll farms (Aug 11, 2010)

Pen G and B vitamin, along w/ mollasses (sp), baking soda and gatoraide via drenching syringe.   Even gave her a bit of red cell in the first drench....

I don't do banamine....my own thing, to each their own and all that, but the words "possible liver damage" scare me a bit.

This'll be my 3rd time dealing w/ listeriosis, so it didn't freak me the heck out like it did the first time(s).  Just "Oh, no...not again..."

She now looks like she's almost pushing....not full on groan / grunt, but her body is arching like it does right before they push...if that makes sense.

Anybody ever had a constipated adult goat?  I did notice she hasn't pooped since she's been in the stall.  (3 hours)...could she be trying to poop???

Nibbled some grain out of my hand a bit ago....loves her drench.
I'm 'cautiously optimistic' that she'll be ok w/ continued treatment....


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## Hykue (Aug 11, 2010)

Ok, I'm not an old pro at all.  But I just wanted to mention that it really sounds like just uterine cramping to me.  Maybe TMI, but I get really bad cramps sometimes when I'm menstruating, bad enough that I have curled up on the floor of a minivan crying.  Cramps and contractions are both caused by oxytocin (in part).  I know that goats don't usually "menstruate" (do they?) or get cramps (that we know of), but it doesn't seem strange to me that a condition that would cause abortion would also cause uterine cramping.  So I wouldn't even think it was strange, if it were my goat.  Scary, but not strange.

Also, that's a unique idea CM has about the fever hallucinations.  I never would have thought of that, but it's a good point.  I also remember having fever hallucinations once when I was 8 or 9, so terrifying I knew they couldn't be real, but they WERE real.  They didn't just look real, they smelled and felt and sounded and tasted real, too.  So it seems plausible to me that she IS going through labor, even though physically there is no baby.  Our bodies can do crazy things - ever hear of hysterical pregnancy?

Also, I hope she gets better.  Wishing you luck!


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## Roll farms (Aug 11, 2010)

When she delivered twins in March, she didn't show any signs of infection post-partum and has been fine since...it's a great idea but...nothing obviously going on back there.

No discharge at all (I checked after she started the contractions to see what was going on....)

I'm going to go check on her again before work and will update when I get home....thanks for the input.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 11, 2010)

This is alpaca experience talking but what about an ulcer? Do goats get ulcers?


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## Ariel301 (Aug 11, 2010)

I had a bred doe get constipated last year shortly before her due date. I was sure she was in labor, she was hunched up and straining like you describe...I sat with her watching a while (in a leaky horse trailer in a flash flood!) and after about two hours she pushed out a huge dry chunk of manure that was all one solid chunk. Then she was fine. 

I hope Raven gets better soon, I don't have any experience with listeriosis so I can't offer any advice on that. If she still seems constipated, maybe drench with mineral oil?


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## helmstead (Aug 11, 2010)

I had a doe severely injure her neck a few weeks ago...she also appeared to be having contractions and was DEFINITELY open.

Our vet figures this is a pain response.  After the acute pain was over, the spasms went away.  BTW, she continued to spasm even after banamine and dex...

Hope she pulls through!  I've dealt with listeriosis once, or rather helped to deal with it...we pulled the goat through it.   It was a LOT of work, poor thing was a pincushion.


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## Roll farms (Aug 11, 2010)

Yeah, it's definitely not something easy or fast to cure / fix....she's got the pin cushion thing going on....Poor girl.

Luckily dh got off work the same time I went in, and was able to take the evening shots / drenching round for me.

She's about the same, which is better than worse... or dead....
by morning she might start to respond a bit more....I hope.

Kate, that's what my hub and I were wondering....is she just feeling so bad her body's doing that spasm on it's own.

Still no discharge.

I actually found her stuck in a corner of the pen outside this morning...it was POURING down rain and the buck nearly came after me while my daughter and I were carrying her out of the pen.   We had to carry her about 100'.  She was soaked.  I'm hoping there are no upper resp. complications.

I regret to say that my husband fed that pen last night and he'll admit he's not a 'head counter' like I am....so she may have went down as early as yesterday afternoon (I saw her eating / acting normal yesterday at breakfast) and been stuck in that corner all afternoon / night until I found her at 7 am.

I feel so guilty.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 12, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I feel so guilty.


Don't!!  I think everyone here would agree that your goats are living the good life!   I hope she improves, she is in capable hands.


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## Roll farms (Aug 12, 2010)

Morning update:

She pooped!  And peed!  Orange pee freaked me out at first, then I remembered all the B vit she's getting.

The poop was normal black berries.

She still can't stand / walk / eat / etc.

I soaked alfalfa pellets overnight w/ some mollasses and oats and made a slurry and fed her that this morning, then stuffed some fresh clover and alfalfa hay in her mouth and she'd chew / swallow it.

Gave her more baking soda and started probios today.

She looooves her gatoraide drenches.  Fever's down some (103.5) and her eyes are bright.

This can take weeks to recover from, so I don't expect overnight miracles.

Thanks for the support / ideas.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 12, 2010)

That's very, very good news.  

I'm assuming she's no longer cramping/spasming/contracting/whatevering?

What Kate said about her doe "contracting" with a neck injury...I found that interesting.  Listeriosis involves 'the neck,' in a manner of speaking...brain stem anyway.  And if Kate's contracted that way after a neck/possible spinal cord injury...perhaps that's something a goat does when they get a kink in their wiring, so to speak.

Or not..  I dunno.  

Just glad she's trying to round the corner.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Aug 12, 2010)

good news on the update..and you are just right.. its always something.

goats = crazy
;-)


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## Roll farms (Aug 12, 2010)

Nope, she's still doing it...the wierd cramp-thing.

And now, I'm wondering if (b/c neither of the 2 goats who had list. before did that, and as I said, she's low-goat on the totem pole in the pen she was in...and the ONLY dehorned doe...and the smallest....

Wondering if she didn't take one heck of a hit, get hurt, and the injury didn't help encourage her illness....

'Nother wierd thing...she's not blind in one eye ...the other 2 were.

Maybe it's not listeriosis at all....but the circling made me think it was...neck injury followed by pneumonia or ??? (whatever's causing the fever....)  If she'd been out in this heat for a whole day....and she's BLACK....maybe she had heat stroke??

If I stand her up, she spins around my legs in circles...but that's the only 'listeriosis' symptom she has...the fever and paralysis could be from something else.

I'm just thinking in circles and driving myself nuts now.....


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## cmjust0 (Aug 12, 2010)

You said something earlier that struck me as a bit odd, but I didn't really put any thought into it until just this second..  You said:



> Fever's down *some* (103.5)...


When I read that, I though..._some_?  The little flash that went through my brain went something along the lines of: 103.5 is about +1 of normal, but +1 of normal IS kinda normal right now...._that seems normal_.

And then my brain shook itself off like a big wet dog and I went cruising right on along...  :/

I guess I was thinking when you originally said "high fever" that you were talking like...106, 107, something like that.  I've never dealt with listeriosis, but that's what I've seen reported time and again.  Like, WAY HIGH fevers.  But to say her fever's down "some" to 103.5 indicates that it maybe wasn't much over that to begin with...like 104.5-105, maybe?

We had one at go wonky on us w/ a temp of 104 the other day from what ended up being almost certainly the ambient temps outside..   She'd been in the barn for a while when the temp was taken, too..  She got loafy, lethargic, dull and depressed...  Had her temp been 103.5, I'd have held off on everything...but at 104 (which is > +1 of normal), we thought it safer to assume an infection , so we gave her banamine and a shot of oxytet..  Before that stuff would really have had a chance to work, though, it cooled off some and she went right back to her normal self.  Like, we're talking a couple hours later..

Like yours, this was a solid black disbudded (horns = radiators) nubian, and at this point, I'm 99.9% positive it was purely the heat that drove her temp up that high..



			
				Helmstead said:
			
		

> I had a doe severely injure her neck a few weeks ago...she also appeared to be having contractions and was DEFINITELY open.


Kate:  You witnessed the neck injury?  Like...there's no doubt that it was, indeed, a neck injury (and not heat stroke or listeriosis or whatever..)?

Keep in mind I'm not _questioning_...I'm just confirming.  


OK, so...off to see if I can figure out what the hell "heat stroke" actually _is_.  Like, what is it that happens to the body when one has a "heat stroke," and is/are there any medication(s) that might be of use.


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## jodief100 (Aug 12, 2010)

I do not know about Heat Stroke in goats but in people, heat stroke is when the body's cooling mechanism shuts down.    You stop sweating and body temperature skyrockets because it can no longer cool itself.  Treatment is douse in cold water, keep dousing in cold water and hope you can get the body temperature down before brain damage sets in.  By cooling the body down manually, it will reset the bodys cooling mechanism.  

I have recorded the body temperature of people in heat stroke at 106-108 degrees.  If it was heat stroke I would expect to see very high body temperatures.

It might have been heat exhaustion.  That is where the bodys cooling mechanism still works but cannot keep up with the rise in body temperature.  The body temperature will be elevated but not dangerously so.  Treatment is the same as for heat stroke but the condition is not a serious.  Heat Stroke is always preceded by heat exhaustion.  

Again, my experience is in Humans but I would suspect the same would apply to all large mammals.


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## Ariel301 (Aug 12, 2010)

The spinning you mention...I had a bloated doe do that last year. I went out to check on them one afternoon, and she got up out of her shady spot, and immediately did a few circles then flipped over and started rolling across the pen. She could not stand up without help, and when she did, she did not seem to know up from down, and would turn in circles when she did manage to stay on her feet, or stagger a few drunken looking steps and start rolling again. Is that anything like your doe? 

The only thing we could figure out with Ebony was that she was just crazy from pain, maybe, (she is a drama queen even on the best of days) or the whole thing was caused by eating something poisonous, which added in the neuro symptoms on top of the bloat, because bloat doesn't cause neurological symptoms that I have ever heard of.  Is it possible that your doe ate a poisonous plant that was hidden in the hay? You said if there was something yucky left over that the others did not touch, she probably would have eaten it since she's the lowest one in the group...


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## cmjust0 (Aug 12, 2010)

_KIM!_



> Clinical signs of *goat polio* are associated
> with cerebral edema, cerebellar, and herniation
> of the brain, and the death of brain cells con-
> trolling motor and visual functions. *Convulsions
> ...


http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0065/UNP-0065.pdf 

I ran across mention of the word _convulsion_ after I started thinking...what if these are _seizures_?  When I saw "convulsion," I kinda thought it made more sense..  A google on "goat convulsion" -- just trying to learn what a goat might do if it had a convulsion -- led me straight to goat polio and what appears to be a VERY SIMILAR description as the one you laid out..

If she was mine, I'd have her on BIG WHOPPING ASS DOSES of b-complex and I'd start a round of dexamethasone, as well..  Even if it is heatstroke, injury, or even listeriosis, dex is something that's sometimes used in all of them, so I wouldn't suspect it to be one of those things that ends up being the exact wrong thing to do..

EDIT -- I take that back..._I'd probably get straight thiamine from the vet_.

The only worry would be that dex is an immune system killer...which is why I've always ridden the fence on using it to treat listeriosis, though.  On the other hand, some folks use dex for listeriosis as a general practice, sooo...  Gotta be your own judge, of course.

I looked for reference to convulsions in regard to listeriosis, but all I could find were docs which attempted to help differentiate the two...and convulsions were mentioned only with polio.

Something I just saw that I didn't know is that -- like listeriosis -- goat polio can apparently also be the result of eating moldy hay?!?  I didn't know that..

Given how goat polio and listeriosis are nearly indistinguishable anyhow...and how you immediately thought it was listeriosis...and how polio leads to convulsions and arching and so forth...really is sounding more like polio to me now.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 12, 2010)

My dog had a recent back injury accompanied by a fairly high fever and all the symptoms that go with it (lethargy, suppressed appetite, etc.).  The vet was actually concerned that he might have lyme because a fever is not usually associated with an injury but it apparently does happen.  He said that typically it's just a mild fever when it occurs.  He tested negative for lyme, thankfully, and the fever and soreness was resolved in 24 hours with a cortisone shot.  Just thought I'd throw it out there because (in my limited experience) it had never occurred to me that a fever might be associated with an injury rather than illness or infection.  Not a diagnosis of course, just FYI.


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## helmstead (Aug 12, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Helmstead said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, while I didn't witness it, I heard her get slammed by another doe at feeding time (I was in another pen).  She wound up with a dislocated and sprained neck.  Ended her show career, most likely...

Roll...they don't always go blind.  Symptoms will not always be exactly the same goat to goat.  Basically the treatment for listeriosis should treat most everything else possible, too (provided you're doing the typical vet Rx treatment).


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## Roll farms (Aug 12, 2010)

Went and got some fortified B complex (10x the thiamine as my B complex had...they didn't have straight thiamine, apparently...) and hit her w/ that....if she's acting a lot better tomorrow we'll know it was goat polio and I'll owe you one, CM.

She'd had about 60cc of reg. B vitamin in the last 24 hours but...it would have taken 125 cc every 3-6 hours to get the recommended treatment dose of thiamine from that.

She's still the same...it's been SO darn hot / humid here that I put a fan on her....she's bound to be sick of me poking her.


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## Roll farms (Aug 12, 2010)

Last update for tonight....no change.
She just got her 7th Pen G shot and her 2nd fortified B shot (but the 6th B shot altogether).
Still 'convulsing', still can't stand.
I want her better....


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## helmstead (Aug 12, 2010)

What about dex and banamine?


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## Beekissed (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm not a goat pro but it sounds a little like hardware disease in cows.  Any chance she could have swallowed anything of this nature?  



> Clinical signs: Standing preferred, arching and rigidity of back with a tense, tucked up abdomen;may grunt with each respiration; respirations will be shallow; mild fever; not eating; depression; signs of colic. Treatment: Difficult. Consult a veterinarian.


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## jodief100 (Aug 13, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> What about dex and banamine?


My undersatnding of goat polio is that antibitotics can cause it.  If that is the case I would think you wouldn't want to treat with any.  I could be very, very wrong so perhaps more research is in order......


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## Roll farms (Aug 13, 2010)

> My undersatnding of goat polio is that antibitotics can cause it.  If that is the case I would think you wouldn't want to treat with any.  I could be very, very wrong so perhaps more research is in order......


First, Dex and Banamine aren't antibiotics....

Second...antibiotics aren't what "caused" her illness to begin with (she hadn't been on any).  

I'm thinking she ate some 'bad' corn, we've been getting invaded by raccoons and my husband had thrown some corn stalks that the coons tore down into the pen she was in.  I found some that looked like it was moldy.

Right now her illness mimics what could be either listeriosis or goat polio, and treatments are similar for both.

Morning update:  no change.  :/  Temp is 101.7.

Going to pick up some Dex but I'm not happy about it.

She's been exposed to a 'big money' buck for 14 days, if she's bred this will definitely end the pregnancy...but a dead goat can't kid, either.

I can't find the use of banamine recommended anywhere in any of the literature I've been reading as treatment and don't use it as a general rule (again, to each his own....but 'possible liver damage' scares me.)

The vet tried to talk me out of Dex but when I said "If she dies the kids are lost anyway" he reluctantly agreed to go along.

So...off to the vet for Dex...I'll keep you posted.

And Bee, thanks for the suggestion, but she hasn't stood in 2 days.


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## jodief100 (Aug 13, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> First, Dex and Banamine aren't antibiotics....


Oops - you are are right.  I forgot that Banamine is usualy given in CONJUNCTION WITH Tetracycline but is not in itself an antibiotic.  

I should never try and think while I am still waking up . 

Unfortunatly this is looking like one of those, throw everything at her and see what sticks kind of cases........ sigh

At least she is still on the "right" side of the grass.  Just getting through the night has to be a victory!


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## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> What about dex and banamine?


That's what I'm thinking, too..

EDIT...just saw you're headed off for dex.  Personally, I think that's more important than banamine, now that the fever's down.  It's perhaps a quicker anti-inflammatory, but dex is kinda the gold standard for treating problems caused by inflammation..  That's according to my vet anyway.  He indicated to me that it goes...NSAID to bring it down quick, then Dex to keep it down. 

Dex will bring it down, though..

Unfortunately...it will also end the pregnancy, and I truly hate that....but, then again, fevers aren't good for pregnancies, either.  If she's suffering from listeriosis, or even if she simply had a listeriosis-grade fever, the pregnancy may not have survived anyhow.

I know a bunch of mights and maybes don't make it any easier to poke her with something you KNOW will end it, though..


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## helmstead (Aug 13, 2010)

The dex is the MOST important with either because it aids in bringing down the inflamation of the brain stem...and therefore eases symptoms and lessens the chance of permanent damage.  Banamine...I would primarily use as a fever reducer and pain management drug in this instance.



> Oops - you are are right.  I forgot that Banamine is usualy given in CONJUNCTION WITH Tetracycline but is not in itself an antibiotic.


I have no idea what you're refering to here...banamine is a smooth muscle relaxer and anti-inflamatory.  

Shame you will loose a pregnancy, but as you've said, save the doe first.


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## Roll farms (Aug 13, 2010)

She may not have been preggo yet...but I thought she was in heat the day after he got here...13 days ago.

I'm really thinking it's not / wasn't listeriosis the more I ponder it...thinking it's polio and I didn't get the thiamine in her fast enough...the two just look too much alike.

Gave her the dex and more gatoraide....gotta work tonight so no more updates until I get home.  

Please keep up the 'good thoughts / vibes'...


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## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)

Roll said:
			
		

> Please keep up the 'good thoughts / vibes'...




We're all pulling for ya/her.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 13, 2010)




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## jodief100 (Aug 13, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I have no idea what you're refering to here...banamine is a smooth muscle relaxer and anti-inflamatory.


I have never used it with my goats, my aunt used it on her cows, always along with Tetracycline.  Must be a cow thing....... I am trying to remember why she used it but it has been a long time.  

Learn something new every day....... I think I will shut up now since I cannot fit anymore of my foot in my mouth.  

Positive thoughts to Raven......... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


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## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I have no idea what you're refering to here...banamine is a smooth muscle relaxer and anti-inflamatory.


You forgot _fever reducer._  It's really good for that.



			
				jodief100 said:
			
		

> I have never used it with my goats, my aunt used it on her cows, always along with Tetracycline.


Given that fevers are the #1 indication that an animal has an infection and needs to be on antibiotics, it's not uncommon to employ a fever reducer in conjunction with an antibiotic.

More often than not, I do..


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## helmstead (Aug 13, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> You forgot _fever reducer._  It's really good for that.


I said that somewhere on back...somewhere...  See, in horses...I use it for the smooth muscle relaxing part.  In goats, I use it as a fever reducer.  For both, I like the pain relieving part.  It's just one of those meds I've had on hand, in tack trunk, in glove box...etc...ever since I was 13 because esp with horses you never know when you'll need it.

Roll, did you get some Thiamine when you went to the vet's??  I would give it IV a few times...

Good luck, hope there's an improvement update soon.  Best I can recall, it took something in the area of 4 days to see motor skill improvement in the doe I treated for listo a couple years ago.


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## PJisaMom (Aug 13, 2010)

Been watching this thread closely!  Keeping the fingers crossed for both you and Raven...


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## ksalvagno (Aug 13, 2010)

I sure hope Raven pulls through for you.


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## Roll farms (Aug 13, 2010)

She is much worse tonight....I'm pretty disappointed.

Won't swallow her 'food' (feed / alfalfa mash softened w/ gatoraide).
Much more vocal (whiney) and much more teeth grinding.
Her head is becoming raw from constantly pushing / rubbing on the wall.

The vet didn't have straight thiamine, so he sold me 'fortified B vitamin' which had nearly 10x the thiamine my B vitamin had...

The more DH and I talk about it, the more confused I am about "what" her problem is.

I have pretty much ruled out Listeriosis at all...

The highest her temp ever got was 104.8....not enough (IMHO) to cause the symptoms she's having.

She hasn't responded at all to the B shots (she's had it every 6 hours since the onset, first regular B then the fortified B for the last 1.5 days.)

The dex didn't do anything for her today, but I will admit it might have if given sooner....

As we all have said, goats (in general) and dealing w/ sick ones is always a learning experience and since I started out thinking I was treating listeriosis, and hadn't used Dex when treating that before, I didn't think I'd 'need' it / the possible risks didn't seem worth it at the time.

Anyhow, at this point I'm not so sure it's Polio, since the fortified B isn't helping either....BUT....the literature I've read says if it goes on too long before treatment, they may not recover.

And....I've said from the first she may have been hit hard by one of the 4 goats in the pen who are much bigger than she is and have horns.

I hate when I don't know exactly what the problem is...when there are too many possibles / variables.

She'll be getting Dex again tomorrow....along w/ more fortified B.

If she doesn't start to show improvement by Monday, I'll probably have the vet put her down.   She's miserable.


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## Beekissed (Aug 13, 2010)

Roll, if you put her down will you explore the reasons for her illness...do your own PM?  

This is so frustrating that someone with your experience with goats and a vet on standby and you can't find out what is going on.  

We are waiting to hear any good news......


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## dkluzier (Aug 14, 2010)

FWIW - one of my friends just lost a yearling doe to meningeal worm. I have done some research and it can cause convulsions since it does affect the neurological system, could that possibly be the problem?


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## Roll farms (Aug 14, 2010)

Another goat-breeder friend of mine suggested that to me a couple days ago, (I didn't mention it here b/c the water is muddy enough w/ possibilities) so "just in case" I've been giving her dewormer daily (ivomec, then valbazen, then ivomec again) and that hasn't had any effect either.

She's definitely much worse this morning.  Thrashing around and can't swallow.  I may have to put her down myself, I can't stand to watch this.

I'm kinda sorry I posted about it at all now, I know it's a bummer to read about a goat being lost and I didn't want to bring y'all down.


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## mully (Aug 14, 2010)

Just a thought ...could she have eaten some kind of poisonous plant? Since she is not selective with regard to eating she may eat something that the other goats would not.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 14, 2010)

We can handle it. We got a good strong shoulder to cry on. Let us know how things work out. This is part of what these forums are for. Will you do a necropsy if she doesn't make it?


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## HartRice (Aug 14, 2010)

This is exactly what our Nubian Rosey did and we tried everything you have tried because I came to this forum and got the same suggestions. I am so sorry for you and your goat. Rosey did not make it and we still miss her and still do not know what was wrong. Sending good thoughts your way. Good luck.


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## Roll farms (Aug 14, 2010)

Still no improvement, she's still alive but just barely.

I think the drenching gatoraide is the only thing keeping her here...


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## helmstead (Aug 14, 2010)




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## mossyStone (Aug 14, 2010)

Hopeing for the best!


Mossy Stone Farm


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## Roll farms (Aug 14, 2010)

I personally won't do a necropsy (wouldn't know what I was looking at or for if I did do one) and probably won't pay to have one done.

If I had more than one sick, or suspected something infectious, I would...

Everyone else is fine.

I want to thank everyone for the support I've been given.  It means a lot.


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## ()relics (Aug 14, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I personally won't do a necropsy (wouldn't know what I was looking at or for if I did do one) and probably won't pay to have one done.


A post-mortem done by a layperson/breeder/farmer/rancher/anyone but a trained vet can turn into a bloody, unneeded, and sometimes emotional mess that most often than not leads to nothing but more questions....JMO...


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## Roll farms (Aug 15, 2010)

She didn't make it.

Again, thanks for trying to help us work through this.

RIP, Miss Raven, you will be missed.  5/29/2008 - 8/15/2010

This was her baby picture...we picked her up at 2 days old.







I really want to remember her as the goofy, sweet kid she was....


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## MysticScorpio82 (Aug 15, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear she didn't make it.   I have been lurking here for a couple weeks and have been following Raven's condition.  She was a beauty!  I love that baby pic of her!!  Again I am sorry for your loss


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## ksalvagno (Aug 15, 2010)

I'm so sorry she didn't make it. She was an adorable little kid.


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## mossyStone (Aug 15, 2010)

I am sorry for your loss,   as we all know sometimes things just don't work out no matter what we try .

( i just lost a 5 month old doeling still stings)

You did all you could and more.... she was blessed to have had you on her side 




Mossy Stone Farm


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## glenolam (Aug 15, 2010)

Roll, I'm sorry, too, that you lost her and that you weren't able to figure out what was causing her illness.  It's hard because they can't talk to us and flat out say "my head hurts" or what have you.

You are a knowledgable and strong person and we know you did what you could to try saving her.  Now be strong for all your other goats!  But when you need to vent or question anything, you shouldn't feel sorry to post questions, thoughts, concerns or anything on here.  Even though, to me, you're on of the "old pros" it is nice to know that even you aren't able to solve everything - it makes me put what I have learned so far into perspective and want to try offering some type of help.


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## Roll farms (Aug 15, 2010)

I have to take this opportunity to give praise for my vet...

I had to work this morning and one of the vet techs came into TSC. 
I mentioned I'd probably be calling them in the morning to put Raven down.  (I didn't yet know she died after I left this morning.)

My vet just called here, said the tech had mentioned in a phone call to him while he was checking on the 'in clinic patients' that I'd need them tomorrow.

He said they were all booked up tomorrow, so if I needed him, he was going to come and do it for me today, Sunday, free of charge.  

That's a caring vet.  Our animals are lucky to have the vet crew we have.

He and I talked a bit more about it and he really feels it was trauma, 
not illness.  I dunno....but I know if love and wanting to alone would heal a goat, she'd have been fine.


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## mossyStone (Aug 15, 2010)

but I know if love and wanting to alone would heal a goat, she'd have been fine.



This hits home to me Kim,


 Indeed If love could truly heal all illness and a hurt.... they'd be here still........





Mossy Stone Farm


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## mully (Aug 15, 2010)

So sorry you lost her .... God Bless!!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 15, 2010)




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## jlbpooh (Aug 15, 2010)

I am sorry you lost her too. She was well-loved and cared for and had a happy life though, she was very fortunate. That is a beautiful baby picture for you to remember her by. I love black goats myself.


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## PJisaMom (Aug 15, 2010)

Roll... I'm so sorry.... she was a cutie as a kid!


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## Beekissed (Aug 15, 2010)

Sorry, Roll.


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## jodief100 (Aug 16, 2010)

You have my deepest sympathies for your loss.


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear that, Roll.   

I know it's too late to do anything for her, but when you mentioned she couldn't swallow, my thought went to rabies.  Do you think there's any way she could have gotten rabies?


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## Emmetts Dairy (Aug 16, 2010)

IM SOOO SORRY...she was a cutie...its makes it harder when you just dont know what happened...Its hard when they go...Peace to you and your loved ones during this tough time.


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## Roll farms (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm certain it wasn't rabies.  
She COULD swallow, physically...she was just too weak to....after 5 days of misery, she probably didn't want to.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 16, 2010)

Aw, man..    I'm really sorry.  Wish we could have been more help.


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