# Possible pregnant doe?



## Mango (Aug 9, 2010)

This coming Sat it will be 2 weeks since I brought Maple home, my tiny pygmy girl. I had mentioned how bad she smelled like billy goat all down her back and someone said she might have been bred. She was still with the buck:-( She was also suppose to be 5 months old but there's no way! Plus she didn't match the pic I was sent. I'm figuring her to be atleast a year if not a tad older. Her horns are every bit as long as my other girl that is a year and half.

I read they usually breed late summer. She was fat when I got her and she looks even fatter. She's even rounded on her abdomen. Granted she has been loving the free choice hay....she didn't hay before. 
We have an ultrasound where I work. I was thinking if she was just bred, then I was gonna take her in at the half way point. 

So my question is, could she have been bred sooner?


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## helmstead (Aug 9, 2010)

Pygmies breed year round, cycle monthly, and are fertile quite young so yes, she could be and probably is bred.


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## Mango (Aug 9, 2010)

Oh nice! Guess if she keeps getting bigger, I'll ultrasound her 
Thanks!
It might would kind of nice if she was except for the buck was her daddy.


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## ()relics (Aug 10, 2010)

you can check her mouth for an estimate on her age...Pygmys are tougher to tell than bigger breeds but you can do it.  At least you will know if she is over 1 and possibly may find she is older....I'd bet if she has been with a viable buck that she is pregnant....good or bad


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## glenolam (Aug 10, 2010)

Can you post pictures of her?  Is she developing an udder?


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## Mango (Aug 10, 2010)

I can get a pic of her tomorrow if I can get the other 3 to back up. They are all attention hogs

No, she's not developing an udder. I got the hubby to help keep the others away today so I could feel her. Her abdomen is very firm and she's touchy. After her, I felt the other two girls and they are softer.


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## Ariel301 (Aug 11, 2010)

I would count on her being bred. Can you get a good, clear closeup photo of the area under her tail? If she's more than two months along, I can usually tell by looking at that.


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## ()relics (Aug 11, 2010)

Ariel301 said:
			
		

> ..... If she's more than two months along, I can usually tell by looking at that.


really??  







which one?  LOL....please don't say the one second from the right....he is definitely still open.....LOLOLOL


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## lilhill (Aug 11, 2010)

I was going to say the same thing until I scrolled a bit further and saw that you already had.  Of course the pooch pictures would be more helpful if they were close up shots of the doe in question.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 11, 2010)

I think the second one from the right is already building an udder...


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## Mango (Aug 11, 2010)

OK, here's some pics.  I did lots of groping and looking at the girls today....hahaha. Once I got down to an eye level she does look different than the other 2.  Also on the ground with her, her udders looks more there than the other 2.

Here's one pic....







I tried to get an above shot and this was the best I could get. The bulge doesn't look as big b/c she was walking away. Still working on better shot to compared to a pic I took the day I got her.







I'm beating myself up for not weighing her the day I brought her home!!


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## Ariel301 (Aug 11, 2010)

She looks right around 2-2.5 months along to me. Feel her belly right in front of the udder...put your palm on it and sort of gently lift upwards. If it is very firm and feels like a basketball is in there, she is bred. If it is really mushy, she is not. That is not 100% accurate, but you can usually feel something by 2 months. 

As for the group shot of the Boers, it is too far away to tell. I need a good, close, straight on shot of the vulva.


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## Mango (Aug 12, 2010)

Just got back from the clinic with her. We couldn't get a good contact with the ultrasound probe. Plus she was so full of food that couldn't really see much past it anywhere Then of course she's moving, kicking and screaming.....lol The whole clinic heard her today  I could have x-rayed her but she was getting stressed. Poor girl...her legs were shaking.

I thought I felt a softball after I got home but she was trying to get back to the others. She's definately not mushy!! So, guess it's a closely watching for changes and waiting game.

I must say she was very good in the backseat of my car which is an eclipse...hehehe. She kept trying to get to the front seat so I had to keep an arm up. After we walked out the clinic and got to the car, I opened the door and she jumped right in


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## jodief100 (Aug 12, 2010)

Mango said:
			
		

> Oh nice! Guess if she keeps getting bigger, I'll ultrasound her
> Thanks!
> It might would kind of nice if she was except for the buck was her daddy.


Father to daughter is not a horrible thing but I would NOT breed any offspring from this match.  Bad genetic recessives usually show up after multiple generations.  You may have problems in the first generation if the rescessive is duplicated on the other chromosome through the other grandparents.  

Line breeding has its place but should be done only in certain circumstances and watched closely for nasty recessives. I have a theory that excessive line breeding is responsible for the weakness we are starting to see in thoroughbreds.


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## Ariel301 (Aug 12, 2010)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> Line breeding has its place but should be done only in certain circumstances and watched closely for nasty recessives. I have a theory that excessive line breeding is responsible for the weakness we are starting to see in thoroughbreds.


I absolutely agree, jodie.  It is done too much in some breeds of horse, particularly Thoroughbred and Arab. I've seen some Arabs that almost have matching bloodlines both on the sire and dam's side (lots of father/daughter and brother/sister matings there!) I would probably wether any male kids from this pregnancy (who really needs another buck, especially an unplanned one with that much inbreeding, right?), and if you choose to breed a female from this, make sure to breed her to highly unrelated bloodlines just to be safe--but that's assuming nothing bad pops up in this first linebred kid, if that is so, I would not breed it at all. I prefer not to see father-daughter/brother-sister/mother-son breedings, but an occasional half-brother-half-sister or grandparent-grand-offspring is not terrible if you're really working on bringing a specific trait of that bloodline into your animals.


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## jodief100 (Aug 12, 2010)

The research I have read say you should NEVER breed sister/brother no matter how desirable the traits.   If you are doing line breeding it should be offset generations, father/daughter or grandfather/ granddaughter.  

Personally, I never do anything closer that 3 generations off.


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## Mango (Aug 12, 2010)

Oh, I'm not breeding them nor do I plan to in the future. They are our pet goats
My male has been fixed. One of the vets I work for thought she was just fat. The other vet that use to do large animal said "hmmmmm, possibly". If it's just fat why her and not the others?
If she really is, it happened at the place I got her from.  The people weren't very smart. 

I'm all antsy now while I watch and wait to see what happpens. If she really is, atleast the buck wasn't much bigger than her.


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## Ariel301 (Aug 12, 2010)

Why would she be fat when the others are not? That's not terribly unusual, in my kid pen I have one chubby chunk of a doeling while the boys are really thin...it's because she chases the others away from the food and takes the lion's share of it for herself! (And I think too because she gets lots of treats of grain or cookies or yummy things from the house since she's the only girl baby lol) I am going to have to move her in with the older bully does I think! If your doe is just fat, that's probably what she has done. And/or she's just better at storing up the calories, like some people are...some can eat and eat and stay thin while others eat only a little and can't keep at a good weight. 

However, she does not look overweight to me.


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## helmstead (Aug 12, 2010)

()relics said:
			
		

> Ariel301 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


SNORT!


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## helmstead (Aug 12, 2010)

Mango - she kinda appears to be building an honest to goodness udder there.  I can never palpate babies until the last month, just too much stomach to find them.  At least with goats you don't have long to wait!

She's adorable, BTW...looks a lot like one of my favorite girls here, Flicka.


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## Mango (Aug 12, 2010)

Thanks helmstead, she is a cutie.

Ariel301, she doesn't run anyone off. It's her and Nutmeg than are running b/c Sugar's bossy. She is getting better


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