# Warm enough?



## MsDeb (Nov 10, 2014)

It's our first winter and all four of our goats are small.  I  know I've posted pics somewhere but what we've got is a 10 x 10 shed for the two girls and in the back corner we've added a couple of stalls. The stalls are aprox 33"x33"x33".  They sleep in the corner one with pine chips for bedding.  There is an outside wall and an inside wall with no insulation. For now we keep one of the shed doors propped open but plan to install an extra large dog door so the shed doors can remain closed.

The two boys (ND wether and buck) have a shed that is about 3'x4'x4'.  It faces south with a panel that covers half the opening.  The west side also extends out about 18 inches from the opening as a wind block.  They have pine chips for bedding also.  Their shed is made from pallets but is also covered with plywood outside. Again, no insulation.

We live in NE Kansas and the winter can go from one extreme to the other.  We're not sure if they are sufficiently protected and I'd really like to know how cold is too cold for this particular set up without adding any sort of supplemental heating device?  

TIA!


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## greybeard (Nov 11, 2014)

Preface to say I know nothing much about goats, but most larger livestock can handle a lot of cold pretty good as long as they are not cold AND wet. The wet with cold is the real killer most of the time--speaking from a cattle and calf experience tho.


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## goatgurl (Nov 11, 2014)

goats will do fine if they are out of the wet and the wind.  your shed sounds like it will work just fine.  i don't think i would put a dog door on the doe's shed.  if you make it to air tight you can trap moisture from their urine and even their breathing and that will be bad for them.  just keep the hay feeders full with a good grass hay to keep those rumens full and they will be happy campers.  with the buck and wether shed i might put a piece of plywood across the open front, just leaving a small door sized opening mostly to block the wind.  you'll be amazed at how much they will play out in the cold and even the snow.  goats are quite resilient. 
  and i am a total coward when it comes to putting any kind of heat source in a barn. a lot of people do but i know my goats can find ways to get into things that we never imagine and i am always am sure they will get ahold of an electric cord or something so i just don't do it.


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## greybeard (Nov 11, 2014)

Agree.
A rumen full of hay is like putting a big log in a wood heater before going to bed--it will produce heat all night long. Hay is ultimately energy and you can't produce energy without producing heat as a byproduct as long as they are out of the wind. Wild ruminants have survived in the harshest of conditions this way for thousands of years.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 11, 2014)

X2 to what goat girl and grey beard said
Mine have always stayed in 3 sided sheds granted we don't have the cold you have
But I have found that mine will stay out side if no wind and dry when it is in the 20s
NO HEATERS
A disaster waiting to happen
Someone put a link to a tragic news story last year of 20 goats killed in a fire caused by a heater
They do like heated water when it's cold


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## MsDeb (Nov 11, 2014)

goatgurl said:


> if you make it to air tight you can trap moisture from their urine and even their breathing and that will be bad for them.


Airtight, she says.    You'd have to really know the shed builders.  Every time we'd end up short and have a gap I'd just assure hubby that everything I'd read on here says they would need fresh air circulating through. (I do pay attention!) They are out of direct wind and they will be dry, but air tight is the one thing we are not going to have to worry about.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 11, 2014)

Agree with all those above. They should be fine. 
Of course if you are really worried you could let them live in the house for the winter!


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## frustratedearthmother (Nov 11, 2014)

Southern, you say that like folks don't do it all the time!      You get enough goats in there and you don't even need to run the furnace - they create plenty of heat!


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## Southern by choice (Nov 11, 2014)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Southern, you say that like folks don't do it all the time!      You get enough goats in there and you don't even need to run the furnace - they create plenty of heat!



LOL - we have done that with newborn kids and 13 degrees out. That kind of weather for us is unusual and when it is 40 degrees one day and then 15 the next well ... my babies could get sick.
And they are really cute, and I love bouncing kids... yep- so guilty!


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## goatgurl (Nov 11, 2014)

have been known to keep a baby in the house now and then myself.  after bbgirl bounced off the back of the couch, ran down the hall and came to a sliding stop on TOP of the kitchen table i decided it was probably ok for her to go outside...  i missed her antics but the cat and the x didn't


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 11, 2014)

Don't worry @MsDeb as long as they are out of the wind and rain they should be fine. I would also put down some straw so they can bed down.
Oh,  my girls do appreciate warm water and extra treats/Alfalfa at 10-11pm. Little brats really know how to manipulate you!


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 26, 2014)

@MsDeb 

Sadly I thought about your post tonight 
Want to say again No Heaters
Just found out on FaceBook one of Rosemary's bucklings from this spring that we sold to a farm in OH died tonight in a barn fire
Buffy and Clementine are OK
Buffy was sold bred and her two kids had smoke inhalation and are stressed but they think they are going to be ok
Please, your goats don't need heaters in the barn


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## Southern by choice (Nov 26, 2014)

OneFineAcre said:


> @MsDeb
> 
> Sadly I thought about your post tonight
> Want to say again No Heaters
> ...



 how sad! Sorry OFA  I know that hurts you too. 
@OneFineAcre  I really think this would be a good thread to start. We have been seeing this too with heaters and heatlamps. It seems many just don't think it will happen to them. It is devastating.
I have wondered about the pig pads... are they safe?


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## norseofcourse (Nov 27, 2014)

I always hate to hear about barn fires  
There was a barn fire at a farm animal rescue place one county over from me, just this past February.  Started from a heat lamb or bulb, from the reports.  Four animals were killed, two were goats.

I don't even have electricity in my barn yet, but when I do, I will be very aware of safety.  Everyone here did ok last winter - through the 'polar vortex', days of record-setting low temperatures, times when even the heated water tub couldn't keep the water from freezing.  Everyone has access to a run-in area, and those run-ins aren't closed - there is always one side totally open to the weather (the side facing away from where the winds typically come from).


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## kinder (Nov 29, 2014)

Glad I came across this MsDeb, thanks.!! I was wondering the same thing.  I live in mid. Vermont and  my 2 bucks and rooster bunk in the same thing. ( I call it their man cave ). The 10x10 that is.


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## MsDeb (Dec 1, 2014)

OneFineAcre said:


> @MsDeb
> 
> Sadly I thought about your post tonight
> Want to say again No Heaters
> ...


How sad!  I worry that mine are cold, but I think I'd worry more about their sheds catching fire now.  No heaters.  Thank you for sharing. Even though it's sad news, its a timely reminder.


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