# Interlocking rubber mats on sleeping benches?



## Jea (Sep 17, 2016)

HI:

My goats have a goat house with 4 sleeping benches and that is their favorite place to sleep and hang out.  Because of that, it's constantly a mess.  We scrape off the goat droppings to the floor to rake them up, but in the morning the benches are covered and they are just laying on top of them.  Plus, the benches are wood, and I have to think bacteria must be bad with this going on.

We are cleaning constantly, but we were thinking of maybe using interlocking mats for the benches so we can pull them off and clean them or rotate them and disinfect them too.  

The floors below are dirt with straw on it, but it's really the benches that I'm looking to find a better way to keep clean.  Any experience with the mats?


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

No, but I would probably just sweep them off once a day and spray a little bleach spray. At least, that seems easier to me.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 17, 2016)

I would not worry about "bacteria".
Sweep benches and like anything every once in a while wash them down.
Goats are livestock. They in their natural habitat lay wherever. They are exposed to bacteria. They poop while sleeping.

Goats should NOT live in sterile conditions.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> I would not worry about "bacteria".
> Sweep benches and like anything every once in a while wash them down.
> Goats are livestock. They in their natural habitat lay wherever. They are exposed to bacteria. They poop while sleeping.
> 
> Goats should NOT live in sterile conditions.


Even milking does?
 Maybe I am going a _little _over the top with sweeping and bleaching 2× a day...


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 17, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Maybe I am going a _little _over the top with sweeping and bleaching 2× a day...



Oh man, I am SUCH a slacker!  I do brush off the goat's benches when I want to sit on them, lol.  Other than that ...Let's just say... Hi, I'm frustratedearthmother and  I'm a slacker...


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## Southern by choice (Sep 17, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Even milking does?
> Maybe I am going a _little _over the top with sweeping and bleaching 2× a day...



Your milking area should be VERY clean. It is where you milk. It is not where the animals live/sleep.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 17, 2016)

X2 what SBC said...


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Your milking area should be VERY clean. It is where you milk. It is not where the animals live/sleep.


We do drink our milk raw, though.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 17, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> We do drink our milk raw, though.



What does that have to do with it?
If you are properly cleaning your doe and practicing good udder care habits that isn't a big deal. Now, I am not saying let them live in filth, just be realistic. Goats lay in dirt, on the grass, in the woods etc.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> What does that have to do with it?
> If you are properly cleaning your doe and practicing good udder care habits that isn't a big deal. Now, I am not saying let them live in filth, just be realistic. Goats lay in dirt, on the grass, in the woods etc.


Sorry... Turning this into a milking thread... Do you thing one part apple cider vinegar, one part water is good enough to wash with, and then fight bac spray at the end? I was thinking maybe the apple cider vinegar wasn't good enough.
 I also use mastitis indicate cards every week or two to make sure nothing is creeping up on me.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 17, 2016)

I don't think anyone should live in a sterile environment. Sterile milking,  sterile meat processing,  but not sterile living. Not to mention that sounds exhausting! Lol


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

Our vet was ABSOLUTELY horrified we drank our milk raw...


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> I don't think anyone should live in a sterile environment. Sterile milking,  sterile meat processing,  but not sterile living. Not to mention that sounds exhausting! Lol


It's not. If you make a habit of it, it doesn't build up on you, so pretty quick and easy.


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## Latestarter (Sep 17, 2016)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Oh man, I am SUCH a slacker!  I do brush off the goat's benches when I want to sit on them, lol.  Other than that ...Let's just say... Hi, I'm frustratedearthmother and  I'm a slacker...



  A slacker is the person who doesn't even bother to brush off the bench before sitting...


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

What is REALLY grossing me out is that we're not rotating yet! That's just disgusting! Hopefully by the end of this year...


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## Latestarter (Sep 17, 2016)

I'm sorry, I don't understand... Why is not rotating grossing you out? Are you referring to pasture rotation? What's disgusting?


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## Southern by choice (Sep 17, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> What is REALLY grossing me out is that we're not rotating yet! That's just disgusting! Hopefully by the end of this year...


What do you mean?



Green Acres Farm said:


> Our vet was ABSOLUTELY horrified we drank our milk raw...



There is good reason. Most get on the "raw milk" thing/hype. The issue is the bacteria's today are NOT the same strains grandpa and grandma had on their farm. They have mutated  and are quite dangerous and deadly. AND you cannot see this bacteria. Goats can live with these at certain levels but we cannot.

I could care less if someone does raw or not. I just think people should fully educate themselves on the subject AND not just believe everything about how pastuerization kills everything.

"Food" for thought (pun intended) 
This is a list of zoonotic illnesses.... read through and you will see how many come through milk.
http://iiad.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Meat-Goat-and-Sheep-Part-2-English.pdf

Next is a video link of a fascinating giant petri dish with e-coli and antibiotics. It is WILD!





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153674766881607
			






As far as Apple Cider Vinegar goes. It does not kill as much bacteria as many think.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> I'm sorry, I don't understand... Why is not rotating grossing you out? Are you referring to pasture rotation? What's disgusting?


Yes, I'm talking about pasture rotation. Our goats have been in the same pasture since we got them, reinfecting it with parasites! It doesn't have grass, though, which I guess is kind of good I guess because of that.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What udder wash do you use? Do you drink your milk raw?


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## NH homesteader (Sep 17, 2016)

I don't drink our milk raw either.  Freaks me out.  I also have a young child so I am very cautious.  I am very careful when milking but since you can't see bacteria, better safe than sorry.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> What do you mean?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow!


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## Southern by choice (Sep 17, 2016)

No, we pasteurize.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

@Southern by choice , Yes, I have read up on it, but I've that probably 99% those illnesses were from people who weren't being sanitary (and I know a lot of people who aren't). I've been off and on about it. I might start pasteurizing, I sometimes do.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

@Southern by choice , what udder wash do you use? I used to use a one part water, one part rubbing alcohol wash, but it seemed so harsh.


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## Latestarter (Sep 17, 2016)

I believe I've read before that many use a warm water with liquid dawn and bleach wash, followed by a warm water rinse, then milk, followed by application of fight bac &/or bag balm or whatever you're using.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 17, 2016)

Yep that's what I do.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 17, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> @Southern by choice , Yes, I have read up on it, but I've that probably 99% those illnesses were from people who weren't being sanitary (and I know a lot of people who aren't). I've been off and on about it. I might start pasteurizing, I sometimes do.



Not necessarily.   




Green Acres Farm said:


> @Southern by choice , what udder wash do you use? I used to use a one part water, one part rubbing alcohol wash, but it seemed so harsh.



We use water with a drop of soap and a drop of bleach, some use iodine/betadine before and after...
We dry, strip, and milk, then use fight bac

We stopped dipping.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Not necessarily.



Wouldn't you think most of the time, though? I know not _always_.

I may start pasteurizing. We'll see. Like I said, I'm off and on about it. Benefits and disadvantages to both. I want to make a wise decision.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 18, 2016)

For me,  the fact that if you get sick from raw milk,  you get really really sick,  is enough deterrent! 

Sorry this is totally not the original topic.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 18, 2016)

Yes, sorry, @Jea.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 18, 2016)

oops did we get off topic?

That never happens on BYH.


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## animalmom (Sep 18, 2016)

Well I wouldn't use rubber mats with the goaties because it would be one more thing to clean... what I mean is the goaties would play with the mats and if possible push the mats on the ground and then sleep on the wood while others chewed on the mats.  I like the KISS system... Keep It Simple.  By the way my goaties don't have sleeping benches.  They do have shelter buy don't always use the shelter.  They like sleeping under the stars.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 18, 2016)

animalmom said:


> Well I wouldn't use rubber mats with the goaties because it would be one more thing to clean... what I mean is the goaties would play with the mats and if possible push the mats on the ground and then sleep on the wood while others chewed on the mats.  I like the KISS system... Keep It Simple.  By the way my goaties don't have sleeping benches.  They do have shelter buy don't always use the shelter.  They like sleeping under the stars.



LOL  we have had benches which the goats loved. Now no benches in the barn but spools outside.
But our walkway that goes down the center of the barn... yeah at one end they knocked the board off ( so many times I gave up) and the dogs and the baby goats go under there! So funny! You will see goat after goat come out then 1-2 dogs. It is a riot!

about 6 of them have already come out ... they are so weird!


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## Latestarter (Sep 18, 2016)

That's too funny! Commando animals... belly crawl to escape the concentration camp...


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## babsbag (Sep 18, 2016)

I use a bucket of water with bleach and Dawn for the udder wash, then Fight Bac when I am done. I have been known to drink my milk raw but most of the time I pasteurize it and I always pasteurize if I am making cheese or ice cream and other people will be tasting it.  I don't believe that the illnesses causes by milk are caused by unsanitary milking practices. The bacteria is in the milk. Period. Unfortunately you can't see it and many of the dairies that sell raw milk run tests every day on their milk. I will not be selling raw milk, I could never live with thinking that I unknowingly killed someone and it is a very real risk. 

@Green Acres Farm are your goats tested for Brucellosis and Tuberculosis?


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## NH homesteader (Sep 18, 2016)

Agree. I don't even have interest in selling milk period. Just non-edible things made from milk!


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## Southern by choice (Sep 18, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> That's too funny! Commando animals... belly crawl to escape the concentration camp...



I would have to say this must be the Hogan's Heroes Camp if it is one.
Hey wait... scratch that cuzz I am not Klink or Schutz


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 18, 2016)

@babsbag, no, I have not tested for TB or brucellosis. The lab I have used does not offer that. What lab do you use?


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 18, 2016)

Oops, forgot tb is not tested from a blood sample...


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## babsbag (Sep 18, 2016)

I use UC Davis as I live in CA, but there are others. WADDL and PAVL come to mind. Your vet needs to do the TB.  I haven't done those tests either but need to before next spring.  If you are drinking raw milk you really need to test for these diseases; IMO, you are risking your life if you don't. It is one reason I haven't had raw milk in the last 3 years...I got educated and it was eye opening and frightening.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 18, 2016)

Does low temp pasteurization work for these diseases or is 165 better?


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## Southern by choice (Sep 18, 2016)

babsbag said:


> I use UC Davis as I live in CA, but there are others. WADDL and PAVL come to mind. Your vet needs to do the TB.  I haven't done those tests either but need to before next spring.  If you are drinking raw milk you really need to test for these diseases; IMO, you are risking your life if you don't. It is one reason I haven't had raw milk in the last 3 years...I got educated and it was eye opening and frightening.



I can say the same. 
When I really started educating myself there was no way I could allow my children to have raw milk. 

*“People should be able to buy raw milk if they want to, but we shouldn’t turn a blind eye to some of the food safety concerns.”*
Michael Pollan, Author
The Omnivore’s Dilemma


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 18, 2016)

I'm NOT saying you're wrong in any way, but this is just my (current) opinion on it for _us:_

A _lot_ more people have gotten sick and dies from raw fruits and vegetables than raw milk. Should we stop eating them? Raw milk DOES have a lot of benefits and definitely a very good immune system boost to protect against diseases. It is very rare for someone to get sick from raw milk. Getting sick from other things we aren't going to stop is a MUCH bigger risk.

Here is a list of zootonic diseases potentially transmitted in raw goat milk:

Salmonella, E. Coli, Campylobacteriosis, Cryptosporidiosis, and Yersisiniosis are caused by _FECAL_ contamination in the milk. That is why I sweep/ bleach 2× a day and try to clean the udder/ teats really well and squirt out first bit of milk to be safe.

Diseases potentially secreted milk:

Listeriosis can be found from fecal contamination or milk. I guess all I can say is I try to keep things clean and don't feeds moldy or contaminated feed or hay.

Brucellosis and TB- it is very rare and we have no symptoms. I know, we should still test, just saying.

CL- negative

Q fever- excreted in milk, urine, and feces. Very rare and if we had it, then we would get it without drinking the raw milk...

Staph food poisoning- caused from mastitis. I use mastitis indicator cards often and they always come back normal. I try to a good job of preventing mastitis. 

Toxoplasmosis- keep cats away

Louping ill- carried by ticks. Have not seen ticks on goats I milk and I am with them/ touching them all the time. I would think if we had ticks carrying that around here we would be told to vaccinate for it.

Meliodiosis- not found anywhere near where I am.

Leptospiriosis- extremely rare. Only 27 cases is the US in 2015.

Cryptococcosis- all I can say is I don't think we have it and if we do, we'd be in trouble even if we didn't drink the milk.

Let me know if this list is not complete or if anything is inaccurate. I got the list from Goat Medicine. This milk is for our family and we let people know who come to come for dinner or something that it is raw and have pasteurized it for them. I have given it to one close family who are very close friends and they have watched me milk and handle the milk and they want it raw.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 18, 2016)

People have every right to drink raw milk.  No,  it's not likely that any of those things will happen.  I just won't do it because IF it did,  it's way beyond a mild case of food poisoning.  The thing that bothers me is when people aren't educated about their decision.  So,  if after doing all the research you and your famous are comfortable drinking  raw milk,  kudos to you.  You know the risks. I did the research and feel the risks are too much for my family.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 18, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> People have every right to drink raw milk.  No,  it's not likely that any of those things will happen.  I just won't do it because IF it did,  it's way beyond a mild case of food poisoning.  The thing that bothers me is when people aren't educated about their decision.  So,  if after doing all the research you and your famous are comfortable drinking  raw milk,  kudos to you.  You know the risks. I did the research and feel the risks are too much for my family.


I'm not trying to turn this into a big debate, I just wanted to say my opinion on it which may change.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 18, 2016)

babsbag said:


> I use UC Davis as I live in CA, but there are others. WADDL and PAVL come to mind. Your vet needs to do the TB.  I haven't done those tests either but need to before next spring.  If you are drinking raw milk you really need to test for these diseases; IMO, you are risking your life if you don't. It is one reason I haven't had raw milk in the last 3 years...I got educated and it was eye opening and frightening.



WADDL does not offer brucellosis testing. PAVL does. Will see vet tomorrow and can ask about TB testing.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 18, 2016)

I wasn't either.  I was trying to emphasize that it's your decision and no one here is going to tell you that it's wrong for your family it's up to you!


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 18, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> I wasn't either.  I was trying to emphasize that it's your decision and no one here is going to tell you that it's wrong for your family it's up to you!


Oh, I know, I was saying that because I didn't want to be the one sounding argumentive.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 18, 2016)

Ya'll just hug it out, lol!  It's all good!


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 18, 2016)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Ya'll just hug it out, lol!  It's all good!


Well, I've seen what some disagreements have turned into here with both sides having legitimate reasons for their point and people taking offense... Not saying people are doing that now (did it again ).


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## NH homesteader (Sep 18, 2016)

No it is hard online because people don't have facial expressions and tone of voice to help convey their message.  People will come across much differently in writing than in person.  Sometimes I re-read things I've written and think wow,  I was trying to  be nice but I sound like a jerk! Lol!


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## babsbag (Sep 18, 2016)

http://waddl.vetmed.wsu.edu/goat-sheep-testing-schedule

WADDL does does test for Brucella, which causes Brucellosis.

Brucellosis was called Undulent fever years back and people would die from it, also from Bovine TB. Louis Pasteur saved a lot of lives when he introduced pasteurization. Some states require testing for those diseases for  all dairies, whether you are going to sell raw milk or not, CA is one of them. 

I am not sure about low temp pasteurization as I have a pasteurizer that does all of the work for me. The temp. of the milk at the top of the container is 156-159. One of these days soon I need to start studying for my pasteurizer operator permit; really hoping I don't have to memorize a bunch of stuff and that it is all common sense. My brain doesn't retain stuff like it used to.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 18, 2016)

I think it is important to look at where your info comes from. Raw milk sites are very biased. There was actually an  article about pasteurized dairy products that had made people sick and it was horrible, sad, and repulsive... raw milk advocates- one after another were laughing and making horrific comments about those that had gotten sick. 

There are many myths to the whole organic and raw foods.
_There are some that believe "they are pasture raised" so their milk is safe. 
Organically grown veggies are safer...
_
Both the above statements are wrong but these are the things that get out there and people believe. Many don't realize if they use their great poop compost from their goats, chickens etc they increase their risk!  It's POOP 

I think Kylee Young's parents nailed it. Their video is the best I have seen. They are very balanced and believe people should have the right to choose!  If you watch the 12 minute video they explain their views, their reasons, why raw, what happened, where they are now and ultimately at the end of the video they talk about what we are.

They put it in a great way too. At the 7 minute marker he tells HOW it happened, and how everything was clean... it was a FREAK thing... but that one small freak thing changed their whole life... At 7:35 the mom talks... AMAZING! She feels people have the right to choose. (See Below)At the 9 minute marker they bring some fantastic points talking about BOTH sides.

When you hear the mom you hear what her greatest frustration has been. They want to share their story to help other be educated so they can make an educated decision and know more... but the raw milk advocates do not want to listen about what happened to Kylee, they don't want to hear these stories.
She also talks about the benefits. 

This family does NOT present anything to scare people. The one thing family after family says is they really didn't know and didn't have much info. They heard how raw is the cure all and raw is great for your baby and raw is the best... many never researched anything. 

I could figure out how to get the video url thingy so I am just posting the link with the video. This is not where I read about this but it is the same video.

http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/real-life-stories


*BTW- I am not anti -raw*. 
I have spent over half a lifetime in hospitals. I grew up in them... then my own children required extensive hospital stays. I have seen so much... I have also seen liver failure... kidneys shutting down... my own child sent home  to die. I know what it is like to have a child on transplant list. I know what a central line is, a g-tube... the list goes on. 
I also have seen first hand  Campylobacter infection.
Guillain-Barré syndrome is strongly associated with Campylobacter. The variants of GBS are also just as devastating.
I have first hand experience with this as well.

I just believe in educating and bringing awareness so people can be informed and make the best decision for their family... whatever that may be. 

For much the same reason I try to share about Johnes Disease. 

I am a science geek. Can you tell? 

So I am not turning this into a debate. I personally don't care what people choose to eat or drink. There is balance in everything.


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## Latestarter (Sep 18, 2016)

This is your friendly moderator speaking... Perhaps it's time the thread went back to talking about rubber mats in goat houses. Both sides have expressed their views. If you'd like to continue the "debate", please start a PM as more than one person can participate there as well. Or start a new thread specifically aimed at this discussion. Thank you for your time. I now return you to your regularly scheduled forum threads.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 19, 2016)

Apologies to the OP for the progression that led the discussion off topic.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 19, 2016)

Sorry... Again...


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## Latestarter (Sep 19, 2016)

It seems that my post was worded poorly and misunderstood... Nobody is in trouble, nothing was "wrong", no need for apologies... Sorry for the confusion.  Perhaps someone could start a new thread with all this data, maybe in "Our Herds As Providers" subsection "milking"? That way folks looking for this detailed information might more easily find it?


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