# Mama Goat with Scours!



## SkyWarrior (Mar 21, 2013)

Lulu gave birth yesterday to a lovely little doeling.  Today, Lulu is unwilling to eat or chew cud and when I went to take her temperature, I saw she was scouring.  The doeling is fine.

So, this is what I've done:

Given her a big bolus of baking soda
Given her Ivermectin
Given her 10 ccs of probiotics
Given her Clostridium C&D antitoxin

I put some warm water in her bucket with molasses to tempt her to drink.  She's not interested at the moment.  :/

I was thinking of giving her some calcium and a shot of oxytetracycline.  Thoughts?


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 21, 2013)

Anyone? :/


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## alsea1 (Mar 21, 2013)

Gosh. I'm still new at this game. 
I sure hope one of the more exp. see's this soon.
Sounds like you have done quite a bit to get her back on track.


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## Pearce Pastures (Mar 21, 2013)

Did you get a temp?  I would treat for hypocalcemia.


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 21, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> Did you get a temp?  I would treat for hypocalcemia.


No, I didn't.  It was mighty messy back there.  What's the treatment for that?  Calcium, right?


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## alsea1 (Mar 21, 2013)

I found this recipe for hypocalcemia

To re-create the equivalent of a 30 cc CMPK dose (650 mg calcium; 500mg potassium; 150 mg phosphorus; and 96 mg magnesium) right in your kitchen, go to the Supplements department of any large chain-type drugstore and buy a bottle of Posture-D tablets (containing 600mg calcium, 266mg phosphorus, and 50mg magnesium), and bottles of Potassium tablets (500 or 550mg) and Magnesium tablets (150 or 250mg). Calculate the amount of each pill needed to come up with an equivalent to one 30cc dose of CMPK as spelled out above, and, using a pill cutter of some kind, create that amount, crush it up to a powder and serve it orally in a little yogurt. Or add some water to the mixture and dose it in a drenching syringe. 

If a doe is already down this should be given to her every 2 hours for the first day, or longer if it takes more than a day to get her up and eating normally again... And then it should be given 2X a day for a week or so, and finally 1X a day until you feel she's totally stabilized again


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## Pearce Pastures (Mar 21, 2013)

Calcium Gluconate, which is available at TSC for about $6, is commonly used but I know I have heard that there are other treatments that work well too.  If you can though, get herself something soon.  Not saying it is 100% hypocalcemia but if it is...

And yes, the CMPK is great too, because it offers more than just calcium.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 21, 2013)

OK, is it liquid or pudding consistency?  AND what color is it?  

You are on the right track.   There is a great thread on treating scours on here I will try to find it for you, but you are doing pretty much everything you need to right now.  HOWEVER, Oxytetracyline will likely make it worse.  I wouldn't at this point, unless she is REALLY sick.   

I suggest cutting out any grain till the scours clears and making sure you don't overdo the molasses as it can have a mild laxative effect.    

A lot of does get the runs after kidding.  Stress, worm bloom, etc.  When was she wormed last?


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## Pearce Pastures (Mar 21, 2013)

I agree---no more molasses, no feed, and no antibiotics just yet.  Ivermectin was given already (but personally, I don't do worming after kidding until I test here).


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 21, 2013)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> OK, is it liquid or pudding consistency?  AND what color is it?
> 
> You are on the right track.   There is a great thread on treating scours on here I will try to find it for you, but you are doing pretty much everything you need to right now.  HOWEVER, Oxytetracyline will likely make it worse.  I wouldn't at this point, unless she is REALLY sick.
> 
> ...


I wormed them a couple months back.  I didn't want to overdo it so close to kidding time.

It's kinda pudding-ish and between tan and brown.  I also have Pen-G, if I need to treat her.

I'll check on her after dinner tonight.  Her milk production isn't that much -- her udder is still pretty small, but she's a FF.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 21, 2013)

You might just give her a day or two.    You are doing everything you can.   At this point, as long as she is not weakening and is not in distress, she could just be  really, really stressed from the kidding, the afterbirth, the whole pregnancy hormone thing.  Wash her bottom and clean her up.   Make sure she has lots of clean bedding and check her hay for icky stuff that might have gotten in there.  A weeks dose of corrid wouldn't hurt either.


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 22, 2013)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> You might just give her a day or two.    You are doing everything you can.   At this point, as long as she is not weakening and is not in distress, she could just be  really, really stressed from the kidding, the afterbirth, the whole pregnancy hormone thing.  Wash her bottom and clean her up.   Make sure she has lots of clean bedding and check her hay for icky stuff that might have gotten in there.  A weeks dose of corrid wouldn't hurt either.


Yeah, I thought so.  I filled up some syringes with antibiotic just in case when I headed down to the barn.  Lulu looked sick.  She lay beside her kid and wouldn't get up when I entered.  So, I gave her more probiotics and yes, I gave her antibiotics.  I then went and did all the chores including feeding the bottle kids as well as all the goats, chickens, turkeys, etc.  I took her temperature a bit after I gave the antibiotic: 102.2F -- seems normal.  I milked her and fed her kid some to make sure she was getting food.  

She laid there for a while with her head down.  Then, when I was getting hay for the kids in the crate about an hour after giving her the antibiotic, she began to perk up.  I showed her the hay and she took some!  Yay!  So, I took the "old" hay out of the bucket and fed it to my horses and gave her fresh horse hay.  She was nibbling on it when I left.

I will clean her up tomorrow, barring a snowstorm.  She hardly touched the molasses water and ended up spilling it all over the floor, so I gave her regular water.  I closed the barn so she wouldn't get cold and left her in the pen with her baby.  

Right now, it's hard to say what is going on.  It might indeed be stress, or something else.  She expelled the afterbirth and placenta (ended up giving it to the chickens for a treat).  She's hardly producing milk.  I think maybe I could get a cup from her?  For a Saanen, that's not a lot, even for a FF.


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## alsea1 (Mar 22, 2013)

I hope things turn around for her


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 22, 2013)

I would give her more Penn this evening.  
I have had really good luck with does that are scouring resonding to being drenched with Resorb or Sav A Caf electrolytes. I actually use both and atlernate them, I mix them in Kaolin Pectin for cattle and give around 8 to 10 ounces of a 50% mixture.  That and repeat every 3 hours or so.  then when the scours let up, I give the magic drench mix thinned with electrolytes. normally perks them right up. And finally, If htey are still looking weak and off feed we give them a bag of IV fluid under the skin.  

This is of course along with worming and antibiotics.  the above mentioned things are supportive care and for hydration.  They wont get better if they are severally dehydrated it shuts down their rumen and they wont be hungry or thirsty.   Hydrating is the key.  

worm her with ivermectin every 10 days for 3 times.  Ivermectin is not always a strong enough wormer, so you may wish to keep that in mind if she doesn't respond real quickly or keeps having problems. 
If the kid is more than 6 weeks and will eat feed, i would wean the kid or kids.


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 22, 2013)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> I would give her more Penn this evening.
> I have had really good luck with does that are scouring resonding to being drenched with Resorb or Sav A Caf electrolytes. I actually use both and alernate them, I mix them in Kaolin Pectin for cattle and give around 8 to 10 ounces of a 50% mixture.  That and repeat every 3 hours or so.  then when the scours let up, I give the magic drench mix thinned with electrolytes. normally perks them right up. And finally, If htey are still looking weak and off feed we give them a bag of IV fluid under the skin.
> 
> This is of course along with worming and antibiotics.  the above mentioned things are supportive care and for hydration.  They wont get better if they are severally hydrated it shuts down their rumen and they wont be hungry or thirsty.   Hydrating is the key.
> ...


Okay.  I decided to use the Tetracycline because it's the ingredient in the scour meds I've seen.  I have some electrolytes I can put in her water or drench her.  I may switch to Pen G because I don't have to give her quite as much.  2 cc versus 6 ccs!


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## Queen Mum (Mar 22, 2013)

I would definitely go with what 20kids says.   Drench her with the fluids.  She may have no appetite and so would not want to drink water either.  Once you drench her she will probably eat and perk up.  Put the fluids in her mouth ever hour or so for the first several hours and she will pick up pretty quickly.


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 22, 2013)

I'll do that.  She's looking a bit better and allowing her kid to nurse.  I caught her chewing her cud, which is awesome.  I've got another doe with scours too.  I'm wondering if they got some icky hay?  I have a few bales that were iffy.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 22, 2013)

Don't know if it is the hay.  Could be coccidia?   Not sure...  Usually the kids get that, but the adults can get it also...


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 22, 2013)

coccidiosis is a possibility, I had an outbreak 3 or so weeks ago and a couple adults were even scouring, but could be worms too. 

As far as switching to Penn G, at this point you have used a tetracyclene, which will deactivate the Penn G, so stick with the tetracyclene.


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 22, 2013)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> coccidiosis is a possibility, I had an outbreak 3 or so weeks ago and a couple adults were even scouring, but could be worms too.
> 
> As far as switching to Penn G, at this point you have used a tetracyclene, which will deactivate the Penn G, so stick with the tetracyclene.


Okay, good to know.  If it doesn't clear up, I'll start them on corid.  Oh, how long would you recommend I keep her on the tetracycline?


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## alsea1 (Mar 22, 2013)

Corid is good for cocci. but bad for thiamin with goats.
I have been told to go with Sulmet.
I started my goat and sheep crew on a dx feed to try and avert any problems


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 24, 2013)

Well, Lulu is doing better. 

She started eating again.  Last night she was somewhat dehydrated (not badly) and I drenched her with my own electrolyte solution concoction and gave her a tums for calcium.  Today she and her sister were eating hay and I suspect drinking down that bucket.  Her doeling is doing fantastic!


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## elevan (Mar 24, 2013)




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## Queen Mum (Mar 24, 2013)

HOOORAYYYY!


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