# Dogs and farm/ranch life . . . stupid question



## rockdoveranch (May 11, 2011)

I live in a very VERY remote rural area.  We are 45 minutes to an hour from our closest towns.  We have lived here since the summer of 2004, and I have been coming out here since September 2000.  My husband has had the land since the early 1980s.

I am a Boxer person and have had them in my life for 60 years.  We also have a rescue German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP), and kept 2 of her pups, born January 17.  Both Boxers and GWPs have a strong prey instinct, and I am told that GWPs used for retrieving will kill the prey if it is still alive when retrieving.  Our dogs live in both the house and stock panel yard, and only run free when the sheep are put up or in empty pastures.  The GWP will walk through the chickens and cats, and even former bottle baby lambs, and pay no attention to them.  My current Boxer is less than 2 years old and has chased the chickens and cats, but only mouths them.    

Traveling to our surrounding towns I have seen a HUGE turn over in farm/ranch dogs that are allowed to free range.  I have seen a lot of Boxers, but they do not last more than a year.  One guy, who died recently in his early 50s, went through 12 dogs.  I stopped counting after 4 years.  Other people close to us, within 6 miles, and traveling to and from our "close towns" go through lots of dogs.  I have no idea what happens to them.  People who keep dogs in yards around their houses seem to have their dogs for years.  Hog dogs, retrievers and pointers are kenneled when not working.  I have no idea what their attrition rate is.  I see mixed breeds and Blue Heelers in the cowboy trailers with the horses going to and from working cattle.  Have no idea what their attrition rate is either.  It it is the free ranging dogs that do not last long and disappear.  

The only breeds I have seen that free range and have been with their owners for years and years are Labs and Golden Retrievers.

Is what I am seeing NORMAL for rural living?  

I love my dogs, but they are NOT rural type dogs in my opinion.

What kind of dogs do ya'll have?  Do some free range and others not?  Do ya'll have LGDs and other dogs?  Do they mix together or not?    

What are the best dogs to free range when you have live stock?

Thanks!


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## goodhors (May 11, 2011)

In my opinion, there should be NO free ranging dogs.  Unsupervised dogs are predators and get into trouble wandering about.  They chase and injure or kill wildlife and livestock.

Rural dog keeping habits are the result of years of "not bothering" to actually care for or train dogs you have.  People on farms came from that kind of background, so they often let the dogs raise themselves.  Dogs are not obedient, not helpful, not your best friend, used as a warning device for strangers.  These folks take advantage of the dog's natural tendancies to guard the homeplace.  But if something happens to the dog, they are easy to replace.

Cost of a quality dog seems to no matter to many dog owners, still don't take care of it.  Dog pounds are FULL of nice looking, Breed dogs no one cared for.

Working dogs who are useful, do seem to get better care, kept contained so they don't run off or get bred indiscriminatly.  These dogs are usually trained to work stock, hunt well, as their breed directs.  They are OBEDIENT when called or redirected in work.  They often are close to "buddy" status, but not pets.

Even the Livestock Guardian Dogs should be enclosed inside a good fence to keep them from wandering away from their flock or herd.  That is a LOT of dog to meet unsupervised, could be dangerous for a person.

I think you see more Labs and Goldens because they are bred heavily, have more numbers around, and their owners do LIKE their breeds.  Not my kind of dogs, but people replace their old one with another of the same Breed.

Boxers are not common locally, especially as farm dogs.  Just too cold here to be year around, outside dogs.  They are high energy, NEED training to be good companions.

Your location could be part of the issue of free-ranging dogs.  We have moderately strict laws for dog control.  The County does home visits and CHECKS that dogs are Rabies vaccinated and liscensed each year as required by State law.  Big fines if not.  Dogs outside the house, are County required to be wearing both Rabies and liscense tags.  This is even if in your fenced yard or being walked on a leash, the local police agencies can stop you and ask to see the tags on the dog.  Again, you get fined if they are not ON THE DOG.
Loose dogs seem to be quickly dealt with, we seldom see any around our area.  The Pound, Humane Society, Vets, all communicate well for lost dogs, but owner HAS to be doing the work quickly.  We found a Boston Terrier running down the road, obvously knew NOTHING about cars, didn't move over, came when called.  We put him in a stall with some food and a drink, called a Vet, Pound, HS and owner showed up in a couple hours.  Dog was more than 5 miles from home, little bitty dog!!  Had broken his collar the day before, found a hole in his yard fence to escape.  They were happy to get him back!  But that is really the 1st loose dog we had seen in a year.  Our two dogs would NOT have been happy with him in THEIR yard, so stall on a warm day was fine for him.

We have usually got 1-2 Bouvier dogs, who are just WAY too big to leave wander about.  Got a smaller dog when daughter was too little to manage a Bouv.  Presently we have a Bouvier and Corgi, who are kept in the fenced yard unless they are "helping me" work on fencelines.  They love that, but always supervised running in the enclosed fields.  I don't use them on stock.  Both are obedience trained, pretty well behaved, but since we LIKE them, they are kept contained at home.  Our dogs last for a long time!!


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## carolinagirl (May 11, 2011)

I HATE the habit of rural people to just let their dogs run loose.  Why do they think that's ok to do? I don't get it.  One man told me once that he thinks dogs like to be able to run around so it's mean to confine them.  This same man has probably gone through 30 dogs in the 20 or so years we have known them.  

My dogs stay at my house.  Now honestly....my front yard is not fenced (although fencing is being worked on right now) and we are almost 1/4 mile off the road.  My pit bull is the only dog I have ever had in my life that actually stays put.  She NEVER leaves the yard.  She lays in the driveway watching things.  I have had other dogs in the past that stayed fairly close by, but were not reliable to stay in the yard so they either stayed in a fenced yard or in the house.  We do close the front gate by the road when we leave.  I have kept livestock for years.  And through those years, I can't even remember the number of times I have had livestock damaged or destroyed by a neighbor's dog.  Dogs have no business running loose, ever.  

I am getting an Anatolian shepherd later this year.  He is the reason we are fencing in the front yard right now.  He will spend some of his time in the yard and when he is older and 100% reliable with stock, he will spend most of his time in the pastures. 

Your male boxer is gorgeous.  He is thick and tough looking.  around here, he would get stolen if he was loose.  There are an unfortunate number of pit bull fighting people around here and he's bully-looking enough to get himself into trouble with some bad people.


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## Bossroo (May 11, 2011)

We live at the rolling hills at the base of the Sierra Nevada Mountains in Central Cal.  Our last 2 dogs were very well bred Champion bred Boxers.  90 & 95 lbs. of solid muscle females. We used them as guard dogs on our horse ranch.Their mother produced 3 champions, and 2 huge males I sold to police Dept. for police work. Kept in the house or chained outside when we go to town. Both were killed by packs of coyotes after one coyote would bait one into a fight then running fights untill lured into a pack then killed .  Our neighbor had a 110 lb. Rottweiler guard dog. Killed by a coyote pack... all that was left was the head and hide. Another neighbor had an attack trained  Doberman Pincher, lasted a year then killed and torn apart by a pack of coyotes.  Another neighbor had a Rhodesian ridgeback, coyote pack tore him to shreds. Our part Dingo Quensland blue healer, same thing. Our neighbor  has a huge male Akita and a couple Akita females ( they bred them), they cower and hide when the coyotes have their nightly sing along.  I could go on.


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## carolinagirl (May 11, 2011)

Bossroo said:
			
		

> We live at the rolling hills at the base of the Sierra Nevada Mountains in Central Cal.  Our last 2 dogs were very well bred Champion bred Boxers.  90 & 95 lbs. of solid muscle females. We used them as guard dogs on our horse ranch.Their mother produced 3 champions, and 2 huge males I sold to police Dept. for police work. Kept in the house or chained outside when we go to town. Both were killed by packs of coyotes after one coyote would bait one into a fight then running fights untill lured into a pack then killed .  Our neighbor had a 110 lb. Rottweiler guard dog. Killed by a coyote pack... all that was left was the head and hide. Another neighbor had an attack trained  Doberman Pincher, lasted a year then killed and torn apart by a pack of coyotes.  Another neighbor had a Rhodesian ridgeback, coyote pack tore him to shreds. Our part Dingo Quensland blue healer, same thing. Our neighbor  has a huge male Akita and a couple Akita females ( they bred them), they cower and hide when the coyotes have their nightly sing along.  I could go on.


You have some BAD coyotes in your area!! I think I'd give up on keeping dogs and wait for them with a reliable firearm of some sort.


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## Okie Amazon (May 11, 2011)

We once had a dog brought in to the emergency clinic in siezures after the owners had used some kind of dip on him. I can't remember the name of the dip, but I still remember a warning on the label: FOR USE ON FARM DOGS ONLY!

In other words, if you care if they live or die, don't use this dip on them!


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## rockdoveranch (May 11, 2011)

I started to post again earlier, but got side tracked.

Sounds like the problem of free ranging dogs is a generations-old way of thinking.

Our county could not care less about loose or vaccinated dogs even though occasionally there are animals reported to have rabies in and around our county.  Years ago a Beagle we had was half way under ground trying to dig out a gopher.  It was time to come in and she would not come.  I went to pick her up and she bit me by mistake not knowing it was me that had a hold of her back end.  Since I get sick easily I went to the doctor for an antibiotic and tetanus shot.  The doctor told me I had to report the bite to the county even though it was my dog and she did not mean to bite me.  When I called they asked me why the heck was I calling and did not take any information. 

After my first post I thought about two neighbors, both of who contain their dogs and say they take good care of them.  Eventually I learned neither get rabies shots for their dogs.  One had both their geriatric dogs get attacked by a huge feral tom cat.  The cat actually tore off parts of both dogs ears.  The owner had to shoot the cat at close range to get it off their dogs!  I did not go visit them for a year after the attack fearing rabies.  After our GWP killed a skunk that wandered into the dog yard I did a lot of reading on rabies as I waited for the results from the state on the skunks head.  From what I read, it can take a year before signs of rabies can surface.  

I found the Boxer I had before the one I have now on Petfinder . com, and my daughter found her Boston Terrier the same way.  She downsized after her Boxer died at age 12.  Although Petfinder does a great service, I HATE going on their site because it is SO depressing.  There are loads and loads of Boxers listed!

I guess how some people view their dogs is not any different in the big city, it just presents a different way and most the time we do not see it.

Thanks to everyone for posting.


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## ohiofarmgirl (May 11, 2011)

> I have no idea what happens to them.


around here if folks let their dogs run loose - they come home dead. that is, a lot of people have livestock so loose dogs are shot. 

i have two huge GSD and a new pup - they work with me and are always supervised. we'll soon have our property completely fenced (its almost done) then they will be able to patrol at nite. during the day they are always with me. 


off topic:
hey Bossroo!


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## Bossroo (May 12, 2011)

Hey Ohiofarmgirl to you too... We are curently dogless.      I and a few of the neighbors started popping the coyotes.     Then hang them on the fences as a warning to the wily clan. Now, when they have a community (depending on season, up to 20 chorus members) sing along at 3am, I get my .222 with scope and all it now takes is for me to start opening the sliding glass door or screen door ... SILENCE !!! ... all gone !


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## TwoGoats (May 16, 2011)

We are on 23 acres and we have several dogs.   Three live outside year round (we are in central indiana) and live in very well built dog houses.   They are heated with hound heaters in the Winter.  The dogs are allowed to free range on the 23 fenced in acres (field fence) when we are home or herding.   Our dogs like to dig deep holes out in the field when searching for mice and varmint.  They stay in large fenced in pen areas when we are away.   Dogs with double coats do very well living outside year round.  Boxers are not a good choice as a farm dog.  They need to be inside during very hot and very cold conditions.    Our cattle dog and shepherd mix are very hardy and are ideal farm dogs.   A cattle dog has incredible stamina and they can live over 20 years! The longest living dog is a cattle dog at 27 or 29 years I believe.


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## melindaregner (May 18, 2011)

rockdoveranch said:
			
		

> I live in a very VERY remote rural area.  We are 45 minutes to an hour from our closest towns.  We have lived here since the summer of 2004, and I have been coming out here since September 2000.  My husband has had the land since the early 1980s.
> 
> I am a Boxer person and have had them in my life for 60 years.  We also have a rescue German Wirehaired Pointer (GWP), and kept 2 of her pups, born January 17.  Both Boxers and GWPs have a strong prey instinct, and I am told that GWPs used for retrieving will kill the prey if it is still alive when retrieving.  Our dogs live in both the house and stock panel yard, and only run free when the sheep are put up or in empty pastures.  The GWP will walk through the chickens and cats, and even former bottle baby lambs, and pay no attention to them.  My current Boxer is less than 2 years old and has chased the chickens and cats, but only mouths them.
> 
> ...


They are not the usual rural dogs or farm dogs. But they are trainable. It is up to you how you trained them. It's better to train them not to range and run loose whether you're with them or not. Let me remind you that the leading cause of death of dogs is IRRESPONSIBILITY.. owners who let their dogs range free don't see their dogs alive again(most of them). Good luck and have fun training them.


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## rockdoveranch (May 18, 2011)

Oh no no no.  I have no intention of allowing my dogs free range.  Even when I lived in Houston I always had locks on my gates.  No way my dogs were ever going to get out of my yard or front door unless on lead.

I was just wondering about what I see out here in nowhere Texas and whether this is what most rural folk do.

I noticed I had a typo.  My dogs only run free "when the sheep are put up _and_ in empty pastures."  When walking to the pastures, 400 - 600 foot away, and much much farther if we go to the big pond, I do allow my GWP off lead because she stays with me.  She has a keen devotion to me.  I think it was because she was a stray.  My Boxer now must be on lead because he WILL go after the chickens and cats mouthing them if he catches them.  Interesting though, when inside closed pastures, my GWP is off and running non-stop and my Boxer stays close to me or in eye sight.

I just don't understand how people can go through so many dogs.  Don't they grieve when they loose a dog?


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## goatsintheopen (May 18, 2011)

rockdoveranch said:
			
		

> I just don't understand how people can go through so many dogs.  Don't they grieve when they loose a dog?


I know right?!  

we had a problem with a couple dogs coming onto our property..had a talk with ALL the owners of the dogs. actually, we had quite a few as we were trying to be patient and give the owners a chance to do something. 

 Long story short..two of our roosters were attacked by a dog one saturday morning,  when we were gone..very next saturday morning, there are  two dogs almost at our back door..next to our goat pen and chicken pens.   

One dog got away, one dog didn't.   took the collar of the dead dog back to it's owner.. the owner seeing my DH asks if her dog was on our property again.  He tells her her dog is No longer alive and hands her the collar.  

He said she had NO REPSONSE..said he was more upset than she was or looked.  said she just kept smiling at him as he told her what happened.       ????


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## carolinagirl (May 18, 2011)

rockdoveranch said:
			
		

> I just don't understand how people can go through so many dogs.  Don't they grieve when they loose a dog?


many people only grieve because of the monetary loss.  Some got the dog for free and have almost nothing invested in it (poor quality food, no vetting) and certainly no emotional investment. To them, a dog is nothing but a possession that can easily be replaced with a new, cuter, younger version.  Pathetic, isn't it?

I wish my anatolian was already here and old enough to work.  Our neighborhood has been having a lot of 2-legged predators lately.  So far they are leaving animals alone and stealing farm gates, steel, tractor implements, whatever they can get money for at the scrap yard.  Time to get more secuity around here!


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