# I have 5 more posts to go :)



## Vickir73 (May 4, 2012)

before I can post pics (and I've got some really cute pics  - but I do have a(nother) question.  I've been doing my best to read all the forum topics before I post my question because sometimes if I'll just spend the time reading I won't have to post a question that already been asked and answered 

Anyway,  I have introduced myself already and have posted a few other questions; however, in reading some of the other posts I've discovered I have a question that I haven't really seen an answer to. "Mama Goat"  (my kids and I still haven't come up for names for our three girls) has softly butted me twice when I had her on the milk stand this week.  She is pregnant (due date is 6/19) and I'm trying to get her accustomed to my touch - in general and on her udder in preparation for milking.  All three girls have horns.

(1) This weekend I will be adding on a door to the area where the milking stand is.  All three girls want to get on there at once when I put treats in the little feeder on the milk stand - go figure 

(2) She poked me on two different days.  Both times after she poked me I stopped rubbing on her and started rubbing on her daughter (who is due 6/4), which she also didn't seem to like   (the are so much like my two kids - don't play with me, but don't play with her either 

(3)  I don't want her poking to get worse; however, I don't want to put her on the ground either since she's pregnant. And she's not doing it while we are out in the pasture, just when I've gotten too close to her udder.   Should I just push on her shoulder as I read in one post? or do you think she will stop doing this as she gets more accustomed to me touching her?  I've learned a lot about my chickens from BYC and one of the things I've learned from there is to make sure your roos know that you are head roo - don't let them mount any hens in front of you - this has worked tremendously for me - I've not had any problems with my roos being aggressive toward any person.  But how do I go about putting Mama Goat in her place since she is pregnant?  

(4)  I'd be interesting in trying to use the band on their horns, but can I do this while they are pregnant or should I wait?  Since I just got them a few weeks ago and they are within a month of their due dates (or pretty close to it) dI don't want to cause them in anymore stress.  I really don't want to dehorn them, unless she continues.  My 2 children are petite in size and could get hurt very badly if she decides she needs to "poke" them.

(5) My mother will be milking some days when I can't do it - so if the goats do eventually see me as leader, I'm assuming my mom might have the same issues with Mama Goat too?


----------



## SmallFarmGirl (May 4, 2012)

I can not really help you hear, but someone else should be able too!


----------



## Mamaboid (May 4, 2012)

Animals WILL try you.  It is in their nature.  Respect for the human is a learned behavior.  My Nubian Doe who has no horns is still learning this, sounds like yours is too.  A water bottle or squirt gun directly into the face is unpleasant but will not hurt her.  A sharp snap with your fingers on her nose will not hurt her but she will not like it.  A twist to an ear will smart a little, but if needed it will drive the point home, they hate their ears to be 'manipulated'.  The key to all of these things is timing.  You have to do it right when they first even think about headbutting you.  If you watch her closely, you will see that she will have a 'tell' when she is going to do it.  A difference in her head angle, a slight movement of her feet, something that tells you she is about to move in your direction.  With my little Buck, who does have horns, his was just a lifting of his front foot about an inch off the ground.  A sharp NO! followed by your discouragement of choice will first of all surprise her and take her mind off what she intended to do, and second she will soon learn that she does not like the consequences.  If you don't stop it now while it is mild,it will only get harder.  I have WAY more problems with the no-horned Nubbie than I do with any of the ones that have horns.  Individual personalities have a lot more to do with dangerous behavior than horns or not IMHO, cause while horns are sharp, a nonhorned goat head is harder than heck.  Good luck, just be patient but persistent, she will get it.


----------



## Vickir73 (May 7, 2012)

thank you, Mamaboid. I agree.  Like with children - consistency is the key   Baby goat got me with her horn this weekend.  It wasn't her fault at all.  She was trying to get to the feed bucket I was pouring into the feed bowl and I didn't get out of the way fast enough  so I've got a good scratch on my stomach.  My son (who is 6) bent over (before I could stop him) trying to get some of their feed so he could feed them out of his hand and if one of them would have raised their head, he probably would have gotten his eye poked out.  They are not aggressive at all and if it was just me I wouldn't mess with their horns at all, but IMO it would be safer for all if I just went ahead and dehorned after the kids are dropped.  But the more time I spend with Mama Goat, the more I'm deciding I'm going to have to have a loving, but firm hold with her personality


----------



## ksalvagno (May 7, 2012)

Banding the horns should work fine but I would wait until she has delivered her kids. It does hurt them the day you put the bands on.


----------



## marliah (May 7, 2012)

How is she getting you when she is in the stand? Just curious. I have a Nigerian dwarf who is horned and when she is in the stand she can't move her head in a way that her horns can touch me at all. I have a stand like this one

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....rce=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_content=35672

And I sit on the side of the stand. She can barely move her head at all let alone get her horns near me.


----------



## Vickir73 (May 8, 2012)

I can't post pics yet  but I'm using an building/milk stand that my grandfather built back when we started showing in jr high/high school - the building is 20+ years old.  For the time being since they are new and I'm just trying to get them used to me, milk stand, etc. I haven't been restraining her (their) heads because I didn't want to freak them out right from the get go.  I'll post pics as soon as I can - I think this is post 7.  I took pics this past weekend so I could show everyone when I am able to post pics.  

He built a very good building and stand - for 20+ years ago.  The way the milk stand is set up the goat walks up onto the stand and goes to the little feed box.  There is a chain affixed to the wall that we attached to the collars of our does. There is an area where you can either sit on the stool or you can stand up and milk.  (He built it so when the goat stand on the stand, you don't have to bend over very much to milk) I remember this set up working very well when we did this years ago - but the goats were very tame (show goats) and very used to being milked (and were dehorned).  

She hasn't been what I would call aggressive at all, she's just been trying to tell me she's boss, I'm sure, but I want to stop it before it gets out of hand.  I've just been trying to ease us into everything.  I've left her unrestrained because I wanted to make sure she could leave it she got uncomfortable.  Maybe this is wrong?  Should I restrain her and then try to pet her / her udder?  We bottled raised our kids (in high school) so we didn't have this type of issue.  All of our goats were used to us touching them everywhere once it came time to milk.


----------



## Vickir73 (May 8, 2012)

My last post was post 9, so I'll try  now


----------



## Vickir73 (May 8, 2012)

This is a view of the area where they would stand and put their head







This is a view of where they would get on the stand (i've never quite figured out why he put a hay feeder there, but, oh well)






This is a view of Momma Goat on the stand (unrestrained as I was cleaning up and she was in there playing)


----------



## SDBoerGoats (May 8, 2012)

Well, if it was me, I think I would give her grain in the grain box and go ahead and restrain her. Maybe just let her stand there and eat grain first for a few days. Maybe brush her down just on her body, etc. THEN I would start touching her udder etc. I had to milk a goat a few weeks ago that was barely tame, let alone having her udder touched. But she had a baby who couldn't stand up to nurse and I didn't want to buy milk with the machine standing right there! 
She didn't want any part of her body touched. I found it I put her on the stand and gave her grain, we could milk her. As soon as the grain was gone, she was done. But she got better and better about it. Thankfully the baby got strong enough to nurse on his own and now she does all the work!


----------



## Vickir73 (May 8, 2012)

I will begin restraining her/them tonight for a few minutes at a time and see if that helps.  Thanks!!


----------



## Mamaboid (May 9, 2012)

If she fights the restraint, make her stay until she calms down....do not let her call the shots, you should do it.  Even just a minute after she pitches a fit, then calms down, which she will do when she figures out she cannot get off.  This lets her know that you are the boss and she will be rewarded by good behavior, not bad.  It sounds mean, but it is best for both of you for her to know that you will be nice if she is.


----------



## Vickir73 (May 9, 2012)

Well last night I put Momma Goat on the stand (and discovered the latch to restrain her head was broken  so I just held her by her collar.  Once she discovered I was trying to restrain her on the stand she had a crap fit, but I didn't let her go.  She did try to get me with her horns, but by watching her closely I was able to figure out when she was about to and I just laid my forearm across her face (while still holding onto her collar) all the while petting her gently with my left hand.  I kept talking to her gently and petting her with my left hand with my right hand holding her collar.  As soon as she picked up her head I would move my right arm so her head wasn't restrained anymore and I would let her sniff my face.  After about 20 seconds she would lower her head again and I would prepare for the horns.  We did this for about 15 minutes.  I did not let her off the stand until I was ready for her to get off the stand.  I was dripping in sweat by the time we were finished, but I think it still went well.  I didn't lose my temper and talked to her gently the entire time and I'm hoping she's starting to realize I'm boss.

When I took her out and brought the daughter in, it went a little more smoothly.  I've not reached their udders yet, but I think I'll get there at some point


----------



## Mamaboid (May 9, 2012)

Yup slow and steady wins the race....if you want to learn patience.......get a goat.


----------

