# Thiamine deficiancy or also called Polio in lambs



## california cowgirl (Nov 4, 2013)

Hello...I have a small herd of sheep about 10 ewes and a ram.  They are mowers around our barn and houses and in a closed fenced area.  We always have green feed since we water and keep fire danger low they are to eat.  I do supplement hay in the winter months when feed stops growing and they are lambing.  Last winter I had a lamb born fine and then suddenly start to fade.  Seemed blind.  Our neighbors have a lot of goats and they have a huge commercial flock I asked her and she looked at the lamb and said it was Thiamine deificiancy.  Gave me some and told me to also give a 1/4 cc of selenium and you know that lamb recovered.  Did the Thiamine for a few days twice daily till it seemed like it could see again and was fine.  So the next four ewes no problems and then the rest Thiamine defficiant.  It seemed when I would have twins one would be and one would not be and I have learned it is due to the ewes nutrition.  Some things make them that way so does anyone know what they can eat in their diet that makes the ewe thiamine deficient?


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## SheepGirl (Nov 5, 2013)

Make sure your ewes have access to a sheep specific mineral, ESPECIALLY during gestation.


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## california cowgirl (Nov 5, 2013)

I buy a sheep and goat all in one mineral protein block.  Is that good enough?  The vet told me I may be able to give the ewes and dose of thiamine before they lamb for the babies.  Is that something you have heard of?  I have been raising lambs for years and last year was the first year this has happened and not much has changed in the diet or the feed area.  So strange.  If anyone else has any ideas let me know I think I will google it and see what I can find.  Both lambs are doing fine but I hate a rocky start for lambs since they seem so fragile...anyways. Thank you if you have a mineral block that you use or what I need to look for please let me know.


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## n8ivetxn (Nov 9, 2013)

High grain diets, or plants that are high in sulfur can cause it. Thiamine is vitamin B1. In people thiamine deficiency is a sign of malnutrition.

Test your drinking water for high sulfur content.


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## california cowgirl (Nov 9, 2013)

n8ivetxn said:


> High grain diets, or plants that are high in sulfur can cause it. Thiamine is vitamin B1. In people thiamine deficiency is a sign of malnutrition.
> 
> Test your drinking water for high sulfur content.


 Wow I do not feed grain maybe a tiny bit after they lamb if they need a boost.  All in great shape and younger ewes.  We live on a working cattle ranch and all the animals drink from the creek or pond water.  I wonder what kinds of plants are high in sulfer.  Just native grasses and they eat leaves right now that are turning yellow and falling they love leaves from fig trees and some magnolia trees walnut trees and oak leaves some.  A pecan tree and an apple tree or two.  So that is weird.  Just started last winter.  Now first set of twins had it...never ever had that before.  So I do feed some grass hay but just started that a little in the last month.  Grass hay from cattle pastures native grass with some rye grass and pasture hay.  They get wormed twice a year and Covexin 8 shots and I have a sheep and goat all in one block out all the time.


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## n8ivetxn (Nov 9, 2013)

Hmmm, very strange, indeed. I don't have a clue why it would start suddenly....Lots of earthquake activity in CA, maybe releasing stuff up into the water supply? - That would be my best guess. I can't imagine a sudden change in the grass. - Boy, that's all we need, something else to worry about!

If you do get the water tested, post back and let me know what turns up. Normally I think the local ag extension agent can test a sample, or, if you know a high school science teacher, they may be able to do a simple test for sulfur?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 9, 2013)

Selenium deficiency can cause similar problems, but not the blindness.  Water high in iron can also act as a binding agent.


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## n8ivetxn (Nov 9, 2013)

Oooh, good call. I forgot about mineral interactions.....


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## california cowgirl (Nov 11, 2013)

So water high in iron can cause this also?  I will see what I can find out on the internet.  Thanks I really do not know what would have changed last year and this year.  My vet said well start researching on the web.  He said could just be that kind of year.  Oh great.  Thank you for the posts if I find anything I will let you all know.  At least it is treatable with shots for a few days till they get going.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 11, 2013)

We are currently gathering all our data and it will be studied at NC State. We have incredibly high iron here. We are not in a copper or selenium deficient area either. Yet the iron is believed to be having a binding effect. We sent in bloodwork for a mineral analysis.
you can see our history here...
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/the-importance-of-good-data-data-is-in.25751/

A tip from one of our old timey vets... prior to lambing/kidding you can do oatmeal balls with sea kelp fed to momma. Then for the next 3-5 days after birthing feed the balls 2x daily. The kelp is 90% utilized as opposed to regular minerals where there is a 40-60% utilization. It will help with week legs.

We have adjusted many things with our goats. One of the researchers is thinking it may be the Molybdenum.

Have you tested for OPP ( I think that is what it is called) CAE for goats.


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## n8ivetxn (Nov 14, 2013)

Yes, I think the water could do it. I would think the water is the culprit, not the grass. Just because mineral can leach into water from anywhere and be transported by current, with grass, it would be more difficult.

Right, the iron binds up the other minerals. I've also read about the molybdenum.

I'm in a high copper, selenium deficient area, my sheep get bo/se injections - especially during pregnancy and lactation. Lambs get bo/se at about a month, plus, I make sure it's adequate in their mineral. Extra zinc in the mineral can help off-set copper absorption in sheep.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 18, 2013)

n8ivetxn said:


> High grain diets, or plants that are high in sulfur can cause it. Thiamine is vitamin B1. In people thiamine deficiency is a sign of malnutrition.
> 
> Test your drinking water for high sulfur content.



Look on page 137...  http://books.google.com/books?id=1F...AQ#v=onepage&q=iron toxicity in goats&f=false


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## purplequeenvt (Nov 18, 2013)

Certain medications (like some of the ones used to treat coccidia) can cause a thiamine deficiency.   

I was told by a vet that it can also be caused by a sudden change (particularly by a sudden increase of grain) or stress.


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## california cowgirl (Nov 23, 2013)

Southern by choice said:


> Look on page 137...  http://books.google.com/books?id=1FZOX5oQ7MUC&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=iron toxicity in goats&source=bl&ots=Tff42La2eu&sig=LKUAFf8E65nh6hNrm2Fw3oTYsCo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x-fCUfDEMYbq8wTBgYGADA&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=iron toxicity in goats&f=false


 Thank you for posting this.


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## california cowgirl (Nov 23, 2013)

purplequeenvt said:


> Certain medications (like some of the ones used to treat coccidia) can cause a thiamine deficiency.
> 
> I was told by a vet that it can also be caused by a sudden change (particularly by a sudden increase of grain) or stress.


 I don't grain them and nothing has changed in their feed mostly except some winter feeding of hay is all that changes and they are on green the rest of the time.  So strange.  This just started last winter some had it and some did not.  All my sheep are in super good body shape and are of younger in age one is older.  But that is strange and I keep a protein and mineral block in front of them all the time.


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