# Feelin' a bit sheepish...



## Beekissed

...and loving it!  Getting back into sheep in a small way and need a place to journal about it all.  

Starting again with Katahdins, my fave breed, and will keep a very small herd of one full time ram, a wether and a few ewes until I see what my pasture can support.  Won't have the wether until my first lambs, so for now it will be three.  

Doing all this on a very low budget, as that's the way I love to live.  No fences yet but I live in a unique situation that sort of creates fencing around our meadow for now...surrounded by forest, no near neighbors and none with any livestock for over a mile.  One LGD that will not likely bond with the sheep at all until we have lambs...I can see him wanting to nurture those.  Right now these two old biddies I bought would rather stomp him into the ground rather than bond.  They've never been worked with much by humans and never had a LGD at all..they had a llama.  

So, will be working on fences, have put up a temporary penning situation until I can build a permanent sheep barn of sorts.  Will likely be a pole shed situation, as we have plenty of trees on the land for use.  Only three acres of grass/pasture right now and would like to just keep that much, though we have 20 acres in total here.  

Have collected free enormous pallets for use in fencing....six large stacks of them.  These have 3x3 and 4x4 framing and are 10-12 ft. in length.  Were used to move metal sheeting.  Will put these back into the woods to give the sheep plenty of browse along with their pasture...we have a lot of stuff they love to eat in those woods~honeysuckle, multiflora rose, greenbrier, saplings and evergreens of all sorts.  Then we'll fence the pasture side of each paddock with regular woven wire sheep fencing with wooden posts harvested here on the land. 

Hope to milk these few ewes if possible, just enough for Mom and I to use for making cheese and such.  Both ewes have passable udders, nice and even, small but well placed teats...not huge udders but we'll see what the ram can add to the mix~his dam has a huge udder and regularly feeds twins and triplets with ease.  Could be I'll be able to breed upwards with him.  

These ewes were from a flock someone was getting out of...no longer wanted to do sheep, was switching to horses.  Supposedly these sheep were from strains of Katahdins bred by a fellow in OH who worked with OU on the improvement program but eventually got out of sheep altogether.   

I picked out the two most likely to succeed, though I still felt like they were a tad small for Katahdins~both short and short bodied.  Both had just weaned lambs, both had twins but the elder had also nursed and weaned another bum lamb along with her twins.  I liked that and felt she may come in handy, though she's already an old lady in sheep years at 7 yrs of age.  The other is 3. 




 

Shine, 3 yrs, is on the left and Rose, 7 yrs, is on the right.  They were both about 2-2.5 conditioning upon arrival but are starting to fill out a little on good graze and browse.  I should have them where I need them to be by Nov. breeding.  


 
So, will try to record successes and failures here so I can learn as I go.  Will only be using grains for training purposes, would really like to keep them on grass based nutrition as much as possible.  

Just starting to get the feel of sheep again and remembering how much I love sheep.  I hope to get to the place where I can use them for milk, meat and for keeping the meadow mowed, but also for the bond between sheep and shepherd.  I really love that part of it.  

My grandgirls are loving my having sheep also and I can't wait until spring when they get to experience the lambs.  

So far I have square bales of first cut hay but will be getting a couple round bales of second cut here in a week or so.  Will set them up on a self feeding style, using cattle panel placed tight against the hay to prevent too much waste.  

Experimenting around with some nipple waterers retrofitted to insulated drink coolers so I can keep water cool and fresh in the summer but try to use an aquarium heater in them this winter as a heated waterer...don't know if that will work, but it's worth a shot.  Already had the coolers on hand and the fittings are cheap.  Since all water has to be carried and comes from a well, I'm interested in better watering solutions than buckets.


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## Baymule

I am so glad that you are starting a sheep journal! Most of all, I am glad that you got sheep.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I am so glad that you are starting a sheep journal! Most of all, I am glad that you got sheep.



Me too, Bay.    I grin every time I hear them "baaa!" at me...it's worth all the hassle of getting started and all just to have another reason to smile in this world.   

Bonus....haven't seen a deer in the yard since they arrived.    They had been chewing down all my roses and eating our apples, but no more deer problems with the sheep in the yard.  Funny, huh?  

I guess folks who have deer problems in their gardens just need to get a few sheep.


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## Sheepshape

They look in nice condition.

Good luck with revisiting sheep.....they are lovely animals to have.

Also good luck with breeding them.


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## Beekissed

Built another gate in the sheep pens today and also situated self feeding hay stacks in both sides of the pen, one for the ram and one for the ewes.  The sheep seemed to like the changes.  

Also built small shelves for holding the drink coolers and tomorrow will buy additional fittings for using them as gravity fed nipple bowl waterers.  

Will be getting the ram, delivered from MO, on Thursday night.  Can't wait!!!  

Both sheep got a good brushing down by little girls this weekend and each time they are handled, they seem to do better and better.  Hopefully by spring, after being trained to stanchions all winter, they will be more willingly handled for milking.



 

 
Shine lined up this morning at the back porch with the morning moochers, waiting for the food bringer   Don't know why she bothers, as she isn't getting anything but grass and hay.


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## Baymule

That is so sweet. Those girls will do a lot to calm down the ewes. As you brush the ewes, you could give belly rubs and work your way back to their udders to get them used to being handled.  Do they yell when they hear your voice? If I speak one word, even out on the porch, they hear it with sonic ears like a bat, and start yelling for me. LOL


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> That is so sweet. Those girls will do a lot to calm down the ewes. As you brush the ewes, you could give belly rubs and work your way back to their udders to get them used to being handled.  Do they yell when they hear your voice? If I speak one word, even out on the porch, they hear it with sonic ears like a bat, and start yelling for me. LOL



Yep, they yell and they yell if they see me leaving the property.  Every time we tie them, I handle their udders and back feet...when I get the stanchions in place, I'll slowly train them up with a little feed on standing in the stanchions and eating while I'm feelin' them up.  

Then I'll get them used to me sitting behind them while they stand and eat AND while getting felt up.  It will be a long process, but I have all winter to get them to that point. 

Rose does much better than Shine on the udder touching and will also sometimes stand and get brushed without being tied.  When she does that I'll brush her all over and move down to brushing below her belly also.  She's a wise old ewe and knows a good thing when she feels it.  I give her a peanut butter dog biscuit when she stands and gets brushed without being tied....Shine won't even give one a nibble. 

Ram lamb coming in two days!!!!   

Bay, MMD( from SS) is driving to MO to visit her FIL and will be picking up the ram from Farmfresh and driving him here on her way home to Alabama.  Isn't that amazing?   And Texas Lisa paid for her gas to do that!  

I feel so incredibly blessed!!!


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## Baymule

Awww....that is so sweet. God sends his angels in all forms.


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## Beekissed

Today my heart is filled to overflowing with gratitude!!! The good Lord is always providing for me and loving me in a million ways, but today is a special blessing! 

@milkmansdaughter is coming to my homestead!!!!! Not only that, she comes bearing a gift from afar. @Farmfresh was good enough to sell me her very best lamb ram of the season, get him prepped for interstate travel(a LOT of bother, mind you), and MMD is transporting him here to me in WV, all the way from MO! 

What seemed like a light and jesting comment by FF about how she would love to sell me her ram lamb snowballed into @TexasLisa bankrolling the gas for the drive, MMD doing the transport and FF actually selling me her good stock. I am completely and totally blown away by all this generosity, kindness and love...been walking on air for days now, just thanking God over and over for these wonderful women I know but have never personally met. 

God moves in such mysteriously intricate ways in this life to bring His plans together. I praise Him for His ways! 

Romans 11:33: "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"


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## Mike CHS

Thanks you for starting my day off with a smile.


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## Baymule

I am so excited for you! I love the visits and connections we have made on these forums, meeting people that otherwise we would have never been able to meet and get to know. What a lovely thing to do for you Bee. What a fantastic opportunity and hearts full of love for you, to do such a wonderful thing for you.


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## Beekissed

New ram lamb from Farmfresh in MO...his name is Josiah, but will likely be called simply "Jo".  He's a little dirty from his travels but he'll clean up when he gets out on pasture.


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## Beekissed

Farmfresh provided me with pics of this ram lambs sire....at nearly 1 yr of age.  











Looks pretty sturdy and meaty...hope his boy fills out that well.   He's one of triplets, but was the largest lamb born to her flock this season.


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## Baymule

What a handsome boy! He's going to make some pretty babies! I can't wait for lamb pictures. We expect a lot of pictures as Josiah grows up.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> What a handsome boy! He's going to make some pretty babies! I can't wait for lamb pictures. We expect a lot of pictures as Josiah grows up.



I'll give you more pics of Jo if you give us more of Ringo!     He's a great looking ram!   Is he still friendly and easy to get along with?


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## Baymule

Ringo is a sweetheart. He loves attention, scratches, belly rubs and ear rubs. He put his head down and shook it at me about a week after we got him. I slapped his face and scolded him, never did that again. When he is "courting" a ewe, he is not aggressive towards me at all. I don't interfere or get in the way, but he does not try to run me away. I will get some more pictures of him. His first lambs are due October 15.


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## Mike CHS

What is nice is that his lambs have the same personality.


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## Beekissed

I'll be loving to see those lambs!   I sure hope this ram turns out like Ringo...that would be so helpful here on this small homestead, with grandkids visiting and such.  I don't have time for a dangerous or contentious animal, though I have no problem in training or trying to subvert such behavior...the thunder and lightning will land on him if he tries any butting of humans.


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## Sheepshape

Jo already looks quite a good size....As rams only really achieve their full size by about 2, he's likely to grow to be a big, big fella. If he's friendly at this stage, he'll stay that way if you treat him properly. My two rams are positively huge and ripple with muscle, but are friendly, predictable and safe to be around even when the girls are in the field and are in season (actually they tend to ignore us then as their thoughts are elsewhere).

The lambs should be lovely.


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## Baymule

My granddaughters are the main reason I switched from Dorpers to Katahdins. Dorper rams are just too mean. Ringo is calm and gentle. Our youngest just turned 3 and she wants to fling her arms around him and hug him. That scares him. I have to work with her on approaching not just Ringo, but animals in general.


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## Sheepshape

Well, neither Dorpers nor Katahdins, but here's my rams......





 

This is Marshall....a shearling (17 month old) Blue Faced Leicester.

And



 

Dexter.....2 year old Beulah Speckled Face ram



 

Just to show his disposition to people.


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## Baymule

Sheepshape said:


> Well, neither Dorpers nor Katahdins, but here's my rams......
> 
> 
> View attachment 65842
> 
> This is Marshall....a shearling (17 month old) Blue Faced Leicester.
> 
> And
> 
> View attachment 65843
> 
> Dexter.....2 year old Beulah Speckled Face ram
> 
> View attachment 65844
> 
> Just to show his disposition to people.


Your rams are young, how often do you change them?


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## Sheepshape

Baymule said:


> Your rams are young, how often do you change them?


 I operate a 'closed flock' as much as is possible which reduces the risk of parasites and real nasties like Johne's, so I don't buy any ewes in. Therefore after a couple of years I can't use these same rams. However, they won't become meat for a while.....I do swops with neighbours to keep 'fresh blood' coming in. These boys are sweeties, but those I swop with often are nervous and a bit wild. Usually, though, they tame down fine after a few months with my 'laid back' girls.


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## Beekissed

Well...Jo got his first lesson in mankind's dominion over animals today.   I think he's bored silly without his flock mates to butt heads with but he's been invading my personal space these past few days anyway, just mooching for food.   This evening I was working in and out of his pen and he came up behind me and butted me....gently but it was a first attempt.  

So, I did an immediate reaction but I didn't think he would remember that...more of a knee jerk response, which is always the worst kind.  It's a type of engaging in the fight....like when people kick at a rooster that's attacking.  

So, I pulled the section of CP in and fastened it, to make the pen much smaller and I proceeded to pressure him...around and around he went, getting more and more panicked as I turned with him.  I didn't chase him but I kept my eye on his shoulder and would move a little in his direction if he stopped.  Pretty soon he was trying to run through the fencing and that was his demise.  His collar got caught or he would have breeched that panel....as soon as I had my hand on his jaw he stopped trying to run.   I bent his head back towards his rear and leaned into his side until he went down.  

There I held him by the jaw, with his head bent back, while I stood over him....time went by and he eased, heart rate slowed, eyes weren't rolling up.  I didn't yell, hurt or otherwise unduly scare him, but he knew I was a predator and he'd been caught, was helpless and was remaining helpless until I chose to let him up.   I let him up and he slowly got to his feet and moved away.  

There we left it.  When next I had to enter his pen, he started peeing and he gave me plenty of space...first time I'd seen him do that.   I'll take that as an indication that he knows not to butt the humans again.  We'll see if that lesson sticks.  

I wish I had him a companion in there so he could joust around with his own kind.   He's bored and alone, away from his flock for the first time and just doesn't know what to do.  Next week the girls will be in the pen and he will go out on pasture and that will give him more options...he can explore, rub or butt against trees and structures, play with the dog if he chooses, etc.


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## Baymule

That made me smile. Jo, don't mess with The Boss!


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## Beekissed

Amen.  Not a good thing to butt the hand that feeds you, so to speak.   The food bringer should be held in high regard.


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## Beekissed

The sheeples are doing well, fat and sassy on fall graze and browse.   They rotate out on pasture every 2 days in an alternating pattern so both groups can get good food besides hay.    All poops are shiny pellets and that's a GOOD thing!    

The nipple waterers seem to work for the ram but the girls can't seem to understand to use them properly, even when confined to them and with no other water source.   Could be their noses are bigger than his and can't fit into that bowl.  I'm thinking about getting bigger bowls for those units before spring.  It's likely they will all water from the dog's heated bucket this year if I can't get this gravity fed nipple waterer off the ground properly.    I think getting larger bowls will solve the issue, though, so it will still be a great delivery system for the rest of the seasons.

The ram is still pretty bold and friendly...don't really know how to curb that, though I don't encourage it.   Every time he gets into my personal space I grab him or scratch his back around the loins, which usually gets him on the run.   Prey animals usually don't like being touched or grabbed there and it's the go-go button....well....except for when Rose wants her back scratched and then she will lean into me and stand still for a good scratching.   

  Shine still won't let me anywhere NEAR her body except if she's busy eating some really good feed, which is rare.  Still have to work on those stanchions so I can train them to them this winter.


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## Beekissed

A few pics of the gravity watering system I've got in place right now, utilizing a 4 gal. cooler and a 2 gal. cooler.  

 The larger cooler system has a small leak at the quick connect junction due to me having that whole hose under too much tension, putting tension on that junction.












I have a quick connect on the smaller cooler but no tension exists, so it doesn't leak at all.












The quick connect is so I can disconnect those quickly, without having to unscrew them, for cleaning or moving to a paddock system. I used pieces of an old garden hose we had in the farm junk pile, just bleached it out really well prior to use.

As you can see, the bowls are tiny....they looked bigger than that in the pics on Ebay. I'll be getting larger basins/bowls to go with these nipples so the girls can use it better.

I'll be doing a system like this for the dogs eventually as well. Cleaner water, less waste, and the ducks can't "fowl" it up....heh, heh!


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## Baymule

That is so smart! I use a hog nipple and a blue plastic barrel when I have pigs. It is awesome to fill the barrel and the pigs can't turn the water tub over, they just go to the nipple.  Horses have a 300 gallon tank, sheep have 5 gallon buckets, chickens have gallon water jugs. That's a lot of watering!

Maybe a bigger bowl for your ewes will work. Where did you get them?

Has your ram had to have any more lessons on behavior?


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> That is so smart! I use a hog nipple and a blue plastic barrel when I have pigs. It is awesome to fill the barrel and the pigs can't turn the water tub over, they just go to the nipple.  Horses have a 300 gallon tank, sheep have 5 gallon buckets, chickens have gallon water jugs. That's a lot of watering!
> 
> Maybe a bigger bowl for your ewes will work. Where did you get them?
> 
> Has your ram had to have any more lessons on behavior?



Got them off Ebay.   

The ram is still a bit too friendly at times...he's always mugging me for food, even when I don't have any.    I just grab him by the loins whenever he invades my personal space and that usually gets him on the run.  

He came into the coop today when I had the door propped open for one reason or another...had to run him out of there with a pitchfork.   Then he lingered around, gazing in at the chickens eating.   That's all he thinks about right now is how much food he can get in his huge gut.  He doesn't seem to be growing much in size, other than that huge belly.   

Jeep, Lab/BC cross pup,  seems to be laughing at him in this pic....



 



Today he came down where I was washing the car, stuck his nose in my bucket of sudsy water and took several big drinks of it.  Doofus!   Was snorting bubbles in between drinks.   That should take care of _his _deworming needs for a bit....


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## Mike CHS

That would make some great pictures.


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## Baymule

You can be friends with your ram. Lines of respect need to be drawn and you have done that. Scratching his favorite places can be a reward for him. Since he bugs you for food, you would probably avoid treats, but scratches are wonderful.


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## Beekissed

The sheep are all sleek and fat on fall graze, even though we just came through a month of no rain and the grass is not its usual lush of fall.  We are now getting rains and that should help regenerate some of the fall forage, but the sheep are looking FINE.  

No feeding of grains here and will be doing no flushing of any kind, as all body conditions are at peak levels.  

I've been rotating the girls and the ram on two day schedules so they each get good exposure to the graze and then a rest time with just hay.  All feces look healthy and show a healthy rumen action.  

Can't wait until they can all be together as a herd and I won't have to confine them any longer unless I just want them off pasture.  

Luckily, a lot of the tree's leaves are falling while still green due to that drought time and that's just good nutrition on the ground right there...all the nutrition of the tree is still in those green leaves and the sheep are making good use of them.  

They are also sampling from their minerals well and Shine's red patches are slowly leaving her coat and she's going back to shiny black.  

The ram could use more muscling and fat padding on his back instead of that enormous gut he's got but I figure that will come with time.  He's still a lamb with a lamb's bone structure and build, but I expect he'll fill out.


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## Beekissed

Pics of the fat as a tick lady sheep today....forgot to get a pic of fat as a tick Jo.   You can see the residual of the copper deficiency wool color on Shine's shoulders but that's getting less and less.  You can also see a similar patch on the shoulders of Rose, and it's a light cream color.   








Fat bottomed girls, they make the rockin' world go 'round!     Look at how long Rose's tail is compared to Shine's.   I hope she passes that along to her babies.


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## Mike CHS

That is the longest tail that I have seen on one of these guys.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> That is the longest tail that I have seen on one of these guys.



Me too!   She's a bit long in the tooth, could be she's a bit long in the tail also.      I hope her babies get that long tail...more to swat flies with.


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## Beekissed

The neat thing is, these girls are getting fat on nothing but minimal graze, minimal hay, some browse and whatever else they manage to nibble on.   No dewormers, no supplements...just whatever they can rustle up around here.  

That's why I love the Katahdin breed...they have excellent feed conversion if you let them eat their natural diet.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> You can be friends with your ram. Lines of respect need to be drawn and you have done that. Scratching his favorite places can be a reward for him. Since he bugs you for food, you would probably avoid treats, but scratches are wonderful.



I never hand feed him any treats, though I have done for the girls....big mistake!  Now they come running every time they see me and stick their noses into anything I'm carrying.   They are like a pack of thugs, those two!  

Usually if I want to feed him anything special I'll put it in his pen, either on the ground or in a feed pan but never from my hand.  

Just in the last week he seems to be filling out a little more on his muscling. To my eyes he's still a runt for his age, so I'm hoping his sire and dam genetics will show up soon.


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## Baymule

It could be that even if he turns out to be smaller than what you like, his genetics will show up in his offspring.


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## Beekissed

I saw Shine eyeballing the peach tree leaves, which are still green but loose enough to drop off anyway.   I pulled a branch down to her and those sheep started eating peach leaves like they were gourmet chocolate!!!  So, I just ran my hand down several branches to wipe leaves onto the ground and they pigged out.   I'll do that again this evening, just for a treat.  

All that is so funny as I was just watching a vid on YT about an old fella feeding his cows "tree hay" and talking about how they used to do that in olden times.  Harvest branches of trees while leaves still green and store them in the barn....his cows were going hog wild for them.


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## Baymule

I have read about tree hay. use the resources you have!


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## Beekissed

Noticed the perimeter of the meadow this evening...while I wasn't looking, these two ewes have been systematically denuding the briers, honeysuckle and other nuisance vines of all their leaves and tips.  If they can make that big of an impact in no longer than they've been here, imagine how much brush they can clear when fenced into it with temporary electric paddocks!

Imagine how much that will happen when there are more sheep's mouths here to do that work!  Love these hair sheep!!!

Could be why they are looking so very sleek when I have very little graze here...here's a great article telling the nutritive value of what they prefer to browse....

https://www.wormx.info/browseplants



> Using a mixed sward of grasses and legumes or legume (high protein) swards; using forage plants containing condensed tannins; and/or allowing access to browse plants can help in control of GI parasites in grazing goats and sheep.  Additional benefits can include improved protein availability (and probably minerals) for support of the immune system and improved nutrient-use efficiency (especially protein) in livestock.


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## Baymule

I have no honeysuckle. They ate it. When we clear out briars, they come back up, but the sheep strip the leaves off and will chew off the vines. Over time, the briars finally die out. They will eat blackberry leaves too, plus a variety of plants.


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## Mike CHS

I had one section of about 2 acres that had briers so thick that I had to cut it three times the first time just to get it down to a foot high or so. I cut it low just before I let sheep on the patch and they are gone now three years later.


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## Beekissed

Mom HATES Autumn Olive...but long about right  now I wish we were infested with it.  I love how they smell, the sheep love how they taste and did you catch the crude protein levels of that stuff???  

The honeysuckle on our porch and on my garden gates has been trimmed as high as Shine can get on her hind legs....they all look like they've been given a bowl cut.    What's good about that is that next year those vines will be all the more healthy for having been browsed this season....hopefully by next spring I'll have those sheep into paddock rotations that prevent them from overbrowsing those vines and then, when the vines get too wild again, I'll let them into that area for a good trimming. 

My neighbor has a very large field next to us and I just found out this evening that he has to pay a goodly sum each year to have someone brush hog it for him.....hmmmmm......I'm thinking I'm going to offer to mow it for him for free.     With QUIET mowers....


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## Beekissed

Added two ewe lambs to the flock yesterday and am VERY pleased at how they look and I can see great potential there.  They were also a decent price.    They were sourced from an excellent farm and breeder....I was most impressed by everything I saw except the docking of their tails.   Not all sheep were docked, so I'm thinking they had docked this ram's lambs as a way of spotting them easily and making them more marketable to an area that keep mostly woolly breeds. 

Will get pics soon and post them here.   I'm impressed with their calm nature, their incredibly nice build from top to bottom....but their bleats are flat, nasally and seriously not melodious.


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## Beekissed

I've been to many sheep farms in the past and again this year and every single one of them are never prepared to show their lambs for sale, don't have them separated out where one can view them properly, no way of loading them into a trailer or truck except by dragging them out there and shoving them in.   Two places I visited had plenty of time and warning I was coming but their flocks were still out in the fields....WAY out in the fields.  From bad farms to the best of farms, not a single one has a good system for selling or sorting their sheep!   


You'd think that would be a priority if you are attempting to profit from lamb sales, wouldn't you?   I have the unique opportunity this next season to be building a sheep barn and pens....not exactly a barn, per se, but a pole shed type structure.  It's nice to be able to design it instead of having to use existing structures or try to revamp an existing system that limits changes.   

Been watching some of Temple Grandin's ideas and setups in NZ and Australia and have an idea of how I can create a calm and orderly sorting, holding and loading setup that should work, especially for smaller flocks like mine.   Buying sheep should be a good experience where you can put your hands on the animals, see them from all sides, see their sire and dam, and load them without undue stress on the animal or the people involved.   

Furthermore, the flock should be accustomed to moving through these pens at other times, with good things happening at the end of the journey, so they know what to expect, are easily led into the pens and through the chutes and gates, so that when a stranger shows up and makes them nervous, they are in a place that makes them feel safe already.   

Anyone have any particularly good ideas that work well at your place and with your sheep when it comes to sorting pens, loading chutes, etc?


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## Mike CHS

We bought our handling equipment before we brought sheep in.  They are used to the lack of pressure so they are easy to work/load.


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## Baymule

We recently bought our equipment and what a difference it has made. We are loading up 6 lambs to take for processing next week and will put up a cow panel loading chute. So far our loading has been temporarily set up, It has allowed me to see what works and what doesn’t. At least we have a series of lots for sorting the Sheep and separating the lambs.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> We recently bought our equipment and what a difference it has made. We are loading up 6 lambs to take for processing next week and will put up a cow panel loading chute. So far our loading has been temporarily set up, It has allowed me to see what works and what doesn’t. At least we have a series of lots for sorting the Sheep and separating the lambs.



Bay, this current temp setup I have has also let me see it's severe limitations when it comes to ease in handling or sorting sheep.   I need a system of gates, chutes and pens to move them easily around in a semi-circle on the perimeter, with a pen in the middle to shunt the lambs or chosen sheep into, while the others continue through the chute to another pen that can release them to pasture once again.  

Got a few pics of the new sheep today, but mostly of their butts...not really my intention but every time I approached the group, they turned away and just kept on eating.   If I tried to get a side view or front view, they'd just casually turn away and move on....so lots of pics of butts.  Sorry!     

It does give an idea of the size of these ewe lambs~both 7 mo. old~in relation to my older sheep.   
























I really like these sheep's calm demeanor, stocky build and confident manner.  And I really like their chunky, chubby butts!   

..


----------



## Beekissed

This is a funny for all us LGD folks......


----------



## Baymule

Putting up temporary pens, etc allows you to see what works and what doesn't. I haven't firmed up everything to permanent status yet, but we're getting there. 

Those new girls do have some nice butts! They just wanted to show you their best side!


----------



## Beekissed

I think those are Dorper butts, for sure!


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## Sheepshape

Beekissed said:


> And I really like their chunky, chubby butts!
> 
> 
> Nice fat butts, for sure.
> 
> Just as a note....when you dock tails of your own lambs (if you do it) next year, don't cut them quite so short. If tails are too short, then muscles which surround the mouth of the anus and vagina (which have some  attachments to the base of the  tail) can be compromised predisposing to prolapse. This applies particularly to vaginal/uterine prolapse during late pregnancy, but also rectal prolapse.


----------



## Beekissed

Yep....I know that, and that's what makes me worry about these two a bit.   I would never dock a sheep's tail~even a wool breed.   When I asked the old lady about these two, she got defensive and then changed the subject, so I didn't pursue it.


----------



## Baymule

That is one of the reasons I switched from Dorpers to Katahdins. I see NO reason to dock tails of a hair breed. Stupid.


----------



## Sheepshape

It really doesn't make any appreciable difference in wool breeds, either. A large study showed the incidence of fly strike is little different in sheep with long to docked tails. 

Over here, for those going to breeding market the buyer expects them to be docked. For my own ewes, I often don't bother.


----------



## Beekissed

Sheepshape said:


> It really doesn't make any appreciable difference in wool breeds, either. A large study showed the incidence of fly strike is little different in sheep with long to docked tails.
> 
> Over here, for those going to breeding market the buyer expects them to be docked. For my own ewes, I often don't bother.



Her other lambs were not docked, so I'm thinking, since she was selling all the lambs from a particular ram, she was attempting to make them more marketable in an area where wool breeds prevail.   I have a feeling I'll be explaining those tails, or rather lack thereof, for many a long year.   

They just look so vulnerable and exposed without their tails....every time I look at that, it feels like I'm looking at an open wound.


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## Beekissed

This morning, with the weather turning cold and rain pouring down, mating season has commenced.   Virgin ram met 7 yr old Rose, who was the only one that would stand for him.   About wore him out trying to reach her successfully....he's still a tad short.   

Shine, who I thought was the only one heating up, wouldn't stand today....I might have missed her heat, as she was backing up to him through the fence a few days ago, but is butting heads with him now.  

The ewe lambs are singularly uninterested in him and he's only shown them a passing glance.   

Hope he can get the job done this month, as I'd like to have April lambs, if possible.  Now that he's finally had a chance to complete the act, he should be turning on the male hormones a tad more strongly.


----------



## Baymule

I have two ewes with chopped off tails. These are hair sheep, why do that to them? 

I hope your ewes romance with your ram, spring lambs!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I have two ewes with chopped off tails. These are hair sheep, why do that to them?
> 
> I hope your ewes romance with your ram, spring lambs!



Me too, Bay.   It will be so sweet to have lambs once again.  It finally feels like we are making good use of the land.


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## Beekissed

Could be we will be picking up our new flock guardian tomorrow, if the Lord wills it.  A 5 mo. old Anatolian pup that's already been started on sheep and chickens, which is a perfect fit for us here.   Owner says he stays on guard, doesn't leave the place nor the flock.  

Ben is not nor will not bond with the sheep at all, as he was here long before the sheep were and has no interest in them beyond if he can steal any food they may have.   Moving the sheep through paddock rotations will take them, eventually, a  distance out of sight of the place and from safety, so they will need a dog bonded to the flock for that.  

And God provides.....at a price we can afford and then some, which is unusual for this breed and from this particular breeder.  

I think we'll name him Blue...






...and this time I'll work in a different direction than I did with Ben.  This one will be all about the sheep and nothing more.   Basic training on things that could hurt us or him, but more of a hands off approach than I had to do with Ben.


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## B&B Happy goats

What a handsome boy


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## Baymule

That is a handsome pup, and just what you wanted! I can't wait for you to get him home!


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## Beekissed

He looks rather serious and sad, doesn't he?   He's not registered, but that never matters to me, I just want the traits his breed possesses.  I want a sheep with fangs in my flock.


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## Beekissed

Went and fetched Blue....he's a great dog!  I'm thanking God for sending us this dog and can't wait to see how he performs here.   A sweet, dignified, humble but strong young dog....very polite and correct in his behavior, though he had never had any socialization or training of any kind when dealing with situations outside of living in his flock.  I'm greatly impressed with him already and am seeing things I've never seen in any of my dogs....good things.  

Will post pics when I get back from another trip....for now he's in the pen with his new flock and adapting as well as he can so far from his home flock and pack.   He's been a real trooper all through this stressful change and all the new things he's had to face and learn.


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## Beekissed

Pics of the new dog...still working out his ways and finding out a few surprises about this dog.  It's like learning dogs all over again...this breed is a whole other breed of cat, which I knew but it's different when you actually experience it.  I'm impressed with how he thinks and I think this will be a fun journey. 

Shine lays down the law....he's wary, as a good dog should be.


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## Baymule

He is such a pretty pup and already showing what a great guardian he will be.


----------



## Mike CHS

I love his markings.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> I love his markings.



I do too, though that was not my first choice in Anatolian colors/markings....I had wanted the traditional fawn color pup.   But, this is the one God chose for me and I've come to think he's very beautiful and am glad now to have this color.   It's unusual coloring among LGDs.  

He should blend well into a multicolored Katahdin flock, which is good.   Like having a sheep with fangs lurking among them.  

He's learning quickly and I'm so liking this pup's intelligence and nature....makes things easier.  I'm not having to do much on my end, but watching him learn the sheep, his role here and how he's doing his job is delightful.   And he's quiet, which I love...he barks when necessary and that will increase as he matures, but he already seems to know what is bark worthy.   He also seems to be able to take cues from Ben by not being overly talkative.  

Had a lot of family out today and little kids...he only got in trouble once but learned the lesson well.  He was trying to romp with the 1 yr old and knocked her down twice, but it didn't take much to correct him and he learned it well.   He's not too exuberant as a puppy, keeping his actions low and gentle, which speaks of his intelligence and sensitivity to small creatures.  

The sheep are accepting him more and he's not trying to bunch them as often, though he will move them into what he considers safer zones now and again....and that fascinates me!   How does such a young dog KNOW?   Apparently he's working on some amazing instinct or he's been paying good attention to his elders at his prev. home.  

The limp is barely noticeable now...you'd have to know it was there to notice it... and he's getting up and down easily from a lying position, so a few meds have made a huge difference for him.  

Can't WAIT to see how this dog develops...this should be an amazing journey!


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## thistlebloom

Limp? Did I miss something? 
I'm enjoying his story as it unfolds. It's fascinating to watch your Blue and @Baymule 's pup Sentry grow into their jobs.


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## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Limp? Did I miss something?
> I'm enjoying his story as it unfolds. It's fascinating to watch your Blue and @Baymule 's pup Sentry grow into their jobs.



Yeah....they were selling this pup at a reduced price due to him having a limp, supposedly from an older, previous injury of unknown source.   Usually sell their pups for $400 but sold him for $50.   

He definitely had a limp when we got him and had trouble getting up from a lying down position, but upon getting him home and giving him a couple days of a dose of OTC pain med and he's moving freely, getting up and down with ease and I can barely even see a weakness in that hip/leg now.  I think he'll continue to build muscle around that injury enough to recover from it completely.


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## Baymule

Dr. Bee will have Blue healed up in no time.


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## thistlebloom

Wow, can't believe the deal you got him for!


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## Beekissed

Well, there could have been an additional reason he was so cheap.....he's a duck killer.  Ate my best duck the other night, so Blue is on alpha training as of today and will be so for many days to come, depending on how he responds to it......not sure how all of that will go.  

Did leash training and a little chicken training this morning.   I've seen better responses to the chicken training, so I have a feeling we'll have a long way to go.  He's one of those dogs that can act correctly and respond correctly to correction while you are there, but while you are not he does as he pleases.   That will have to change or Blue will have to go.


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## Baymule

There is hope. My Paris was a chicken killer, it took me 2 years to turn her around. Strangely enough, Trip is ok with all poultry—EXCEPT DUCKS. He not only killed, but he ate my Muscovy ducks. I don’t know what clicked in his brain that ducks are food. He snarled and lunged st me, WRONG thing to do. My knee jerk reaction was to snatch up a 4’ pine limb that just happened to be on the ground and I beat the snot out of him-until he ran away. I wound up giving the last duck away. Whalloping Trip with a tree limb probably wasn’t the best reaction, but when my big gentle giant lunged at me, I was whaling the tar out of him before I even realized it.


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## frustratedearthmother

Reminds me of the time that Cowboy growled at me, lol.  Stupid dog!  He's actually done it twice but the first time was in front of the neighbors kids so I chose not to give him a correction that time in case it went badly and the kids would have witnessed me being ripped to shreds by a big ol' dog, lol.  In his defense (not that he deserves any for that) he was mostly grumbling over his shoulder as he walked away.  Not like he challenged me.  But, the next time he even got close to a rumble I was on him like whipped on cream.  He ended up on the ground and didn't get up until he peed on himself, lol.  He hasn't tried it since.

But, all of my LGD's had a poultry phase.  Cowboy is the only one that never killed one - but he would pick them up and carry them around.  No idea why - but he never harmed one.  Maddie licked a few to death.  After a few nice 'conversations' they all got over it and went on to add poultry to their list of guardees.  

Pups make mistakes.  And most are capable of learning.


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## Baymule

With Blue, start over. Go to square one and start training like he is a 6 week old pup. Obviously there are holes in his training, I have confidence that you can find and fix them.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> There is hope. My Paris was a chicken killer, it took me 2 years to turn her around. Strangely enough, Trip is ok with all poultry—EXCEPT DUCKS. He not only killed, but he ate my Muscovy ducks. I don’t know what clicked in his brain that ducks are food. He snarled and lunged st me, WRONG thing to do. My knee jerk reaction was to snatch up a 4’ pine limb that just happened to be on the ground and I beat the snot out of him-until he ran away. I wound up giving the last duck away. Whalloping Trip with a tree limb probably wasn’t the best reaction, but when my big gentle giant lunged at me, I was whaling the tar out of him before I even realized it.



I understand completely.   I truly do.   That's my first inclination too when a dog growls at me....I let all the crazy hang out in those times so they never dream of ever, EVER doing that again.  Ever.   It's just too important with my grandkids around that every dog here NEVER shows a human any aggression.  



> With Blue, start over. Go to square one and start training like he is a 6 week old pup. Obviously there are holes in his training, I have confidence that you can find and fix them.



Already on it....started alpha training and will continue that every day until it's in his mind like a song.   It's hard when the dog is already this old, but I'm still going to try.


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## Baymule

You can do it.


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## Ridgetop

Anatolians are not natural poultry guards.  They have to be trained.  Some never really like poultry, some do.  
You can train them not to kill your poultry, and of course, they will not let anything else kill it either.  LOL  

Anatolians are very flock oriented.  If you have had other breeds, especially Pyrenees, you will notice a big difference in guarding types of behavior.  Like you notice with Blue, he sticks close to his charges.  Pyrs will spread out to defend the surrounding areas. Good  Anatolians stick closer to their sheep.  They will round up and move their sheep to a "safe' position and leave them in that spot while they return to deal with the threat.  The sheep seem to know they have to wait for the dog to return and get them.  Then the dog will run around them to get their attention and proceed to lead them into the grazing area.  One year we had a lot of growth after some rain.  it was very high brush and we were kidding in the barn.  We only had the one dog, Rika, at the time and she was sticking close to the newborns in the barn.  The other sheep lined up on the other side of the pasture fence bawling their heads off.  Finally, Rika was satisfied that the newborns and their mom were ok, so she went out and led the screaming sheep into the pasture.  As soon as the dog appeared, the bawling stopped and the sheep all crowded around the dog to greet her.  If my dogs have been separated from a certain group of their sheep for a time, as soon as they get to them again they go to each one and greet it.

So happy you got such a nice dog.  Has the vet checked the leg though?  You might want a hip xray.  Did the people say what the injury was caused by?  If it isn't a joint abnormality, since he is so young, he may fully recover.  Even if he doesn't, he will still be able to work for you.  Eventually, depending on your predator load you may decide to get another dog as back up, in which case Blue will train the new pup.


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> Good Anatolians stick closer to their sheep. They will round up and move their sheep to a "safe' position and leave them in that spot while they return to deal with the threat.



He has a little of this instinct and I'm sure it will develop over time, but being just a puppy, he tends to not be consistent....he's either bunching them away from a food source or he's laying up sleeping while they wander far out of his sight.  

    I don't expect him to guard the chickens...that's Ben's job, but I do expect him to leave them alone, including the ducks.   Working on training for that now and will continue to do so....it's important that he recognizes what is to be guarded and what is to be killed here.   The previous owners said he was started on sheep and poultry but judging from the way he acts, I'd say all their birds were only free ranged under supervision and not truly free ranged like all of mine.  

Starting taking him for a pack walk each day and will continue with that until he starts to recognize some authority.....I'm all for a dog working independently in the field, but when you can't even catch him and he won't come to your call, it can spell all sorts of problems.  

It's hunting season here, so sheep are confined to the pens and both dogs are on tie outs/runs for now, with daily, or more, walks to burn off some steam.   It's not ideal, but it's not forever.   Until he can be trusted to work independently, he'll need some additional training.  


Ridgetop said:


> Has the vet checked the leg though? You might want a hip xray. Did the people say what the injury was caused by? If it isn't a joint abnormality, since he is so young, he may fully recover. Even if he doesn't, he will still be able to work for you.



No, no point in having an X-ray...even if it were something that required surgery we wouldn't be investing that kind of money into a dog.   The people said they didn't know how he got injured but said he may have been kicked by a horse....I seriously doubt that, though.   Maybe THEY kicked him, though....he acts like someone has.  

The predator load isn't too heavy and his hip/leg is already improved so much that one can barely see that he favors it...you'd have to know it was there before you'd catch it.  I think he'll be okay with no more work than he'll have to do here.   


Thank you so much on the insight into the Anatolian work ethic!   I may need to pick your brains on that in the future as well....though Ben is part Anatolian, he has done very well with poultry and trained well on other aspects, though I've been unable to train him on being frightened of thunder and guns...he has no feeling for the sheep, whatsoever.   Thankfully, this new dog doesn't show any any fear of loud noises, though Ben didn't either when he was that age.


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## Baymule

Recall is pretty important. Sometimes mine look at me like I’m crazy, but at least we have good fences. 

This pup has his challenges, I’m hoping you can overcome them.


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## Ridgetop

If you want him to ignore loud noises, use a cap pistal or anything that you can use to make loud noises, even recordings of old western shootouts played loudly, and set it off every time you feed him.  He will associate loud bangs with something nice - like his dinner.  It is how many hunters (including ourselves when we had gun dogs) train their pups not to be gun shy.


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> If you want him to ignore loud noises, use a cap pistal or anything that you can use to make loud noises, even recordings of old western shootouts played loudly, and set it off every time you feed him.  He will associate loud bangs with something nice - like his dinner.  It is how many hunters (including ourselves when we had gun dogs) train their pups not to be gun shy.



I've got a CD I bought that folks use to train hunting dogs who are gun shy....haven't gotten a chance to use it yet on Ben but intend to do so.   It combines classical music with different types of gunfire and they say to play that during feeding time as well.   

Eventually you play it for several hours a day and it works up from plain classical music the first few days, then light gunfire with the music and in the end you get more gunfire.   I can't wait to see if it works!


----------



## Sheepshape

I wish all dogs were like my old Jared....Border Collie who has no idea how to work sheep, but has been inadvertently left with newborn lambs overnight, had a chicken who was broody in his bed and sheared his bed with the cat frequently. Some dogs just have the lovely nature. Does he guard the chickens? Well, sometimes....yesterday I lost my favourite little hen, Ginge, hand reared, tame to a fault.  Just disappeared off the face of the earth. She stays all day in the sheep shed where there is CCTV......and we found the culprit. It was Jared's consort....a 3-legged elderly Border Collie, Sal, from a neighbouring farm who visits him from time to time. 😭 .
 Jared will protect the chickens from a nasty rooster, AJ, that we have,  and he protects me from AJ should AJ decide I'm fair game to be attacked. AJ has only managed not to be dog's dinner by virtue of the fact that he seems to have stopped trying to attack me down to the fact that I will inflict on him the same sort of gratuitous violence he once reserved for me. I took to staring at him, crowing (not very well) and then ran after him with the coarse broom, which I threw at him if he decided to retaliate. (For about 6 months now he has been a gentleman).But I digress.
With regards to the hip injury, unless you have a policy from have a very sympathetic insurance company, whatever an X-ray will find will be outside the scope of your wallet. If a dog is getting around without too much pain, then he's good to go. All this does tie in with my previous ramblings. Sal... 3-legged chicken murderer....had her hip broken by some driver who hit her and failed to stop. Farmer owner wasn't insured to have a hip replacement, so a cast was applied. The leg never healed, so Sal had a hind quarter amputation. She runs around, if anything, a bit too fast.!
Then the other link is Jared....diagnosed via X-ray with spinal arthritis aged a little under 7 after he started to limp off both back legs. It was suggested that I got an MRI of his back at the animal hospital 1.5 hours away at a cost of £1200 (which would not have been covered by his insurance). Having ascertained that anything surgically remediable at anything less than prohibitive cost, I declined. Now, aged 12.5, he is doing fine and rarely has a 'flare up' from his arthritis.I'm giving him Lintbells YouMove extra strength (contains glucosamine, green lipped mussel etc) daily and Meloxicam if he does suffer a flare up. 
With regards to the fear of guns...him and me both! But seriously, Beekissed's suggestion of the CD sounds very good. From a human point of view, developing chronic tinnitus helps enormously. Having had 24/7 loud tinnitus for the last 5 years, there is one (and only one) benefit from it....you can become pretty unreactive to all background noise. That includes gunshot.....good if you are trying to ignore a hunt, but not so good if someone is taking a potshot at you!


----------



## Beekissed

That's a good way to look at it!    Though I would not wish tinnitus on anyone....that has to be one of the most miserable things to have to deal with. Constant noise? It would drive me around the bend....well....._further_ around the bend. 

I'm sure sorry about your chicken.  It definitely hurts worse if it's a bird one is fond of....I try not to have pet chickens or chickens I am overly fond of, but sometimes a bird just catches your heart.   Mini-quacker the duck was one of those....she just stole my heart~her quack sounded like a huge, hardy laugh from a big guy....made me smile every time I heard it!  I've had good old hens in the past that have worked their way into my heart and it always hurts to have to finally cull them before they get into laying issues~but to have them hurt or killed by another one of my animals is the worst.  That always makes me cry and makes me MAD.  

The pup is moving fine on that leg now and that's without medicine, so I think he just needed some pain relief while he built up some muscle around it.   I see no limp now though I do see some muscle atrophy still on that side....I think, with time, he'll build that up and not have any weakness at all.   Could be when he gets age on him and when all old dogs start to stiffen up, that hip/leg may bother him once again.  

Been taking him for walks around the border of the meadow and back on the land and he's doing MUCH better on leash and in presenting his neck for the leash to be placed, etc.   He's still not sure what to do with the feeding ritual I have, whereas most of the dogs learned from the older dog, this pup hasn't had the opportunity to do that.  So, he's learning....this morning he cocked his head when I took the food away and moved my hand around in it.   I could tell he's wondering what in the world THAT'S all about.  

Feeding ritual around here is done to insure my little grandgirls don't get bit when they are near the dogs during feeding time.  I do training on lying down while the food is being placed and not advancing on the food until told to do so and I also do food removal or "step back" when I put my hand in the feed dish....both things require them to step back politely and wait until I'm done handling the food or the dish.    When the grandgirls are here, I do training on letting THEM feed the dogs and do the hands in the dish action, requiring the dog step back politely while the girls "own" the food or food pan.  

All of that is important for when my 85 yr old mother has to feed also...she's 5 ft. nothing and can be knocked over easily by these larger breeds.   I don't want her to have to deal with anything like that, so the dog has to learn manners.  

Blue is having trouble catching onto that whole scenario, though he's been overall a polite dog and he's not a hog over food....for some reason he can't seem to grasp that he doesn't approach the food bowl until he's allowed to do so and must remain calm while waiting.  Repetition will win out in the end, but I can tell it's going to take him a long while to get that one.  

It will be a relief to get him into electric fencing paddocks with the sheep and moving when they move, which will give him his own little kingdom with the flock and will help him bond with them even more.   Then time and maturity should take care of any remaining issues.    I hope.


----------



## Beekissed

Blue is showing more focus with training after being tied out and also taking part in pack walks with Ben and I.   That walk with another dog on leash seemed to reinforce my authority over his world and he's watching for cues from me now, whereas before he was sort of just doing his own thing.  

He still blows right through the electric containment, so I need to check the collar....I know it's working and it's reaching his skin, but sometimes he's getting a shock and sometimes he doesn't seem to at all.   Right now the ground is saturated and sometimes that throws off the boundary signal, so that could be it.  

We've changed direction on the sheep barn build and penning, both in the place we are going to locate it and on the purpose of the building itself.   Now it's going to be MUCH easier to access for those coming to buy lambs and we will be only building ONE shed/building this year instead of the original plan to build two~one for more wood storage and another for all things sheep.   Those two have been combined into a general all purpose pole shed that will serve both purposes.  

This is going to enable us to do more things with less overhead and labor, which is perfect!   It also gives us more freedom with penning designs, which I love.   The sorting pens will be within one of the paddocks, so they can be grazed when not in use...I'll just open the gates and let them flow through there when it's not in use.  

We are also throwing around the idea of getting a young donkey for one group of the sheep(rams or ewes) so that one can go in rotation away from the house and onto the back of the land, while one stays here with the rams.  

The sheep are doing well and we are learning one another, which is always nice.


----------



## Baymule

You are making progress with Blue, barn building plans and even adding a donkey!


----------



## Sheepshape

Beekissed said:


> both in the place we are going to locate it and on the purpose of the building itself. Now it's going to be MUCH easier to access for those coming to buy lambs and we will be only building ONE shed/building this year instead of the original plan to build two~one for more wood storage and another for all things sheep. Those two have been combined into a general all purpose pole shed that will serve both purposes.


Definitely the way to go......a 'Shed for Many Uses'.
When we came here 13 years ago we had a leaky old sheep shed with one side completely open, regular flooding from the stream nearby and nowhere for logs, equipment, tools etc. We had our present shed purpose built. One side is for the sheep (and chickens...though they have their own hut), the other for storage, machinery tools, workshop and a thousand other uses. It has a 'mezzanine', used for storage, too. I probably spend more time in the shed than in the house. We built up the banks of the offending stream which has not flooded since, and has carved down a bit dee[er following some unprecedented downpours a few years ago, so no longer threatens to bridge its banks.
If you have an area which you want animals to come into easily, then the wider, the better. Sheep move into wider channels better than narrow ones.
Sheep are intelligent animals. Flock behaviour verges on the asinine at times, but individual sheep are bright and learn quickly. Apparently an individual sheep learns to recognise about 50 faces, sheep or human, and can pick up on emotions much like a dog. They will soon learn to trust and know how you're feeling!


----------



## Beekissed

Took a few pics today of one of the feeding stations.   This station used to have a block of square bales in it, but those have been consumed, so I moved the CP wrapper into a corner and am filling it with loose hay from a round bale out in the front soon-to-be-pasture.  I pack it in there pretty tightly so they can't pull out too much hay each time they grab a mouthful.  Seems to be working great at minimizing waste while still letting them get their fill.  








Shine has decided she loves peanut butter dog biscuits after all~used to Rose was the only one who would eat a dog biscuit~and is checking to see if the camera is food....she's really warming up to the treat bringer nowadays.   Seemed like when she got more sheep in her flock, she felt safer and acts less skittish overall.  




Although it's a bit of extra work to hand cart that loose hay up the hill to the pens(not the original plan, of course)it feels good to be using a pitchfork on loose hay, pitching it into a bin, etc.   Feels like a connection to all the folks down through the ages that did that on a daily basis from loose hay stored in barns and stacks.   I like that physical and almost spiritual aspect of it.  

It also feels good to see them with their heads buried in that sweet smelling hay, staying well fed and warm on a cold day.  I thank the Lord for the chance to do this, to live this lifestyle and to experience all the sights, sounds and smells of it all.   Just bliss!!!


----------



## Baymule

I have our round bale parked under the roof of the sheep barn, then I enclose it with half cow panels. YOU are the one who taught me that, years ago, long before I ever got sheep. Thank you!!


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I have our round bale parked under the roof of the sheep barn, then I enclose it with half cow panels. YOU are the one who taught me that, years ago, long before I ever got sheep. Thank you!!


 It's amazing what you can come up with when you don't want to fool with hay bales every day, huh?   That's why I started that CP feeder situation, so the sheep could feed themselves without too much waste going on.    It really does work, doesn't it?  

I see now where Premier 1 has feeder panels, which are just small squared hog panels with four larger holes cut in the panel, called big bale feeders....for $58!!!!  Do you think they lurk on these forums and steal our ideas?     I didn't start seeing probios in chicken feed until the FF craze really started to hit....I think it was their answer to FF, but an expensive answer.  





__





						Big Bale Feeder
					

Feed round and small square bales to the ewe-flock with less waste than conventional feeding systems. Pays for itself in 1 year!




					www.premier1supplies.com


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## Baymule

I have it on my radar to build a covered round bale feeder on skids. I'll have to pull it with the tractor, but what the heck. I want it for the horses. 

yeah, i looked at the Premiere1 hay ring.    Who are they fooling?


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## Sheepshape

A lot of us use rolled up fencing wire as feeders over here, too. Cheap, cheerful and effective with 'holes' just about the right size for sheep to pull out the feed. I have some little individual feeders which hook over sheep hurdles for feeding sheep who have just lambed etc. Also some little water buckets which do the same. They are not at all expensive and last for years. 

Big bale feeders are relatively common over here. BUT, with our wet climate, the area around the bale feeder becomes a sinking, soggy mess and is a good breeding ground for footrot bugs. Much better to have a wheeled rack which can be shifted by hand every day. Clearly a bit more work....but no need to go the gym after  day on 'sheep duties'

We loosen silage/hay/haylage from the big bales and top up the feeders daily. Sheep are 'fussy feeders' and won't eat anything that's a bit old/wet/soiled or has fallen on the floor, so this is best removed daily.

There's really no need to pay silly prices for fancy feeders.


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## Beekissed

Sheepshape said:


> We loosen silage/hay/haylage from the big bales and top up the feeders daily. Sheep are 'fussy feeders' and won't eat anything that's a bit old/wet/soiled or has fallen on the floor, so this is best removed daily.



Not sure if that applies to these hair sheep....they seem to LOVE old, rotten and moldy hay that has been wet over and over.   They were tearing up a 2 yr old mulch round  bale that was all kinds of rotten that I had spread on my garden....acted like it was the best hay they've ever eaten.   All that with having new, fresh hay from two different sources and cutting times available to them.  

 My last hair sheep did the same....I had bought the best hay around for them that year and they were feeding underneath a tarp that I had over some moldy, dusty 20 yr old square bales I had got to put on the garden.  Couldn't keep them out of that nasty old hay!  The lovely, green and fragrant hay I got for them to eat was just tossed around and wasted that year.  

In their current feeder situation, as I'm filling it with fresh hay, if I see any they've pulled out in front of the feeder that doesn't look soiled or trampled, I'll recycle that through the feeder and it gets consumed.   I'm thinking hair sheep are a little less fussy about what they eat than woolly breeds?


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## Baymule

For the horses, I am using a horse hay ring. I move it for each new bale. The dead hay and horse manure are improving the soil, so I don't care about the waste, it's all good!


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## Baymule

At the hay bale in the sheep barn, they sift through the stemmy parts, eating the leafy parts. I pull the reject stems out and put them in a tub. The sheep then go through the reject hay, eating more of it. What is left at the end of the day, goes on the barn floor to become deep litter.


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## Beekissed

I can already see the shape of the ewe's bellies changing....beyond their natural winter fatness, that is.   I see fullness and sag where the lambs are growing and they won't be here for another 4 months!    Didn't expect to notice that this early on, especially as fat as these sheep already were.   

I can't WAIT to see those little tails twirling!!!


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## Baymule

I can’t wait to see the pictures of your lambs. But I guess I have to wait.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I can’t wait to see the pictures of your lambs. But I guess I have to wait.



We'll BOTH have lamby pics this year, BAY!!!!      Isn't that just amazing???  

Got some GREAT hay for $35 a bale today....barn kept, horse quality.   Smells like summer!!!!   Couldn't stop burying my nose in it while he was loading it....looks and smells good, was put up right and stored properly.


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## Baymule

Hay is wealth. Funny the things that make us "rich" that 99.9% of people just wouldn't understand. Hugging a newborn lamb goes into the priceless category.


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## Sheepshape

Beekissed said:


> I had bought the best hay around for them that year and they were feeding underneath a tarp that I had over some moldy, dusty 20 yr old square bales I had got to put on the garden.



Don't allow your sheep access to mouldy hay/silage etc.....it can carry Listeria and listeriosis is a horrible, usually fatal disease. Also, watch yourself if there's much mould about......Aspergillus mould may lead to Farmer's lung. Now haven't I been a bundle of joy with regards to a bit of mould? As a fair bit of our silage was mouldy last year I wore a mould mask throughout the feeding season when handling the silage as I developed a chronic cough. I looked like some deranged over-sized fly....but it did the trick. A third wrapping on the silage this year has all but eliminated mould.



Baymule said:


> Hugging a newborn lamb goes into the priceless category.


Oh, i couldn't agree more with that. My  avatar is one of the sweetest lambs I've ever needed to be 'mum' to. Weighing in at under a pound, she was the tiny 'twin' of a bruising 14lb ram lamb, too weak to stand for feeding from mum. That's a chihuahua coat she's wearing. LLella is now a HUGE  3 year old ewe who has the sweetest disposition.

2 years back I ended up with 13 bottle lambs.....too much of  a good thing!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Hay is wealth. Funny the things that make us "rich" that 99.9% of people just wouldn't understand. Hugging a newborn lamb goes into the priceless category.



Oh, yeah, it does.       A new calf is similar....such sweetness and they smell so fresh and new!    

I DO feel wealthy with all this good quality hay today!   Worked all morning getting it into the feeding stations, up on pallets, covered in tarp, etc.   I feel RICH!!!!

Even stole some of the fresher hay to place in the nest boxes and in Blue's dog house and his lounging spot.   We are having a cold and sunny day, so the ground is frozen enough for good working and the sunshine is making all creatures feel warmed despite the colder temps.   We've had cold rain for a few weeks now, steady and without let up, so the sun is like a huge blessing!   

Sat down on the DL under the hoop shelter and leaned up against the new bale while the sheep nibbled the hay around me.   The DL is dry and cushy, no bad smells and the new hay smells like early summer and flowers.    I sang to the sheep a little and they seemed to like it.   

It's a beautiful day and I praise the Lord for it!!!


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## Beekissed

CP protection for the hay....these pics show the sheep eating hay through the squares.   I feel this cuts down on waste tremendously, both in how much they can pull out and keeping them from tearing down the bale with their feet as they climb.


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## Baymule

That is exactly how I do my round bales, thanks to your inspiration years ago, the first time you had Sheep. They eat the leafy parts, leaving the stemmy parts. I pull the stemmy parts and put them in a tub where the sheep go through the reject hay again. Then I dump out the twice rejected stems to become deep litter and bedding. I also put it in the chicken coops and dog beds. Waste not want not!


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## Beekissed

They definitely waste a lot less than just eating the bales unprotected by that wire.   What little they waste acts as bedding and adds a thin, dry layer to the DL each day where they poop and pee the most.  It's kind of self maintaining in the areas around the hay.  

Spent some time with Blue today after a pack walk with both dogs.   He's coming along on alpha training and has such better recall now....most often I don't even have to call him back, if I stop walking and he notices I've stopped, he comes back immediately if he's ranged out in front.   

Mostly he doesn't range out any longer but stays by my leg, pacing with me, even if Ben is ranging out in front.   He's still a puppy, so still requires correction on where he's allowed to put his paws since I didn't get to do early training with him on that.   

He's a sweet dog, reasonably smart but doesn't sound as smart as Bay's Sentry...likely due to breeding differences.   Of course, after having a dog like Jake, most dogs seem on the dim side of life.     He was incredibly swift to learn things, even up into his old age.


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## Baymule

A dog like Jake is a hard act to follow.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> A dog like Jake is a hard act to follow.


Some dogs leave a permanent mark on your life...I've had two of those.   They have gone down in family lore as almost legendary.   They both wrote incredibly great stories in their time on Earth.  Jake was one of them.


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## Beekissed

Was out moving hay around and evening out the DL, so took a few pics of the girls.   I swear I'm not overfeeding these monsters and they aren't due until mid April, but you can certainly see some huge bellies on these sheep.   

They are getting hay and a large scoop or so of alfalfa pellets mixed with a little oats and BOSS per day to share among them.   Not much but enough to supplement any nutritional shortages in the hay....if they weren't penned right now I'd not be supplementing, as they would supplement themselves out in the woods and such.  

Shine, 3, on the left and Rose, 7, on the right....can't imagine how Rose will look once those lambs are actually ready to come out.   She'll be dragging bottom.   





Juniper in front, May in the back...both 9 mo. old now.   





Poor Rose!   She's got 3 more months to go!  







Good shot of a Type B Katahdin and a Type A body style difference....I prefer Shine, with her type A body style and hope to be culling for that down through the years.  





New round bale, all laced into its CP corset!   





Which keeps climbers from scraping down the sides of the bales and wasting hay.  





Can't wait to get sheep out on the land where they belong.   Got a fencing guy coming this weekend to give us an estimate on running high tensile around the property~18 acres~ and separating paddocks.   

When they are finally out there, all this DL can be moved out to areas that need it most and it should produce some fine graze this year.


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## Mike CHS

It's hard to believe that Rose has 3 months to go.  Poor Baby.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> It's hard to believe that Rose has 3 months to go.  Poor Baby.



I know!   I guess that's what I would look like if I were carrying twins right now as an old lady....like my gut was about to drag the ground.       I feel for her and hope it isn't too rough on her to carry and have lambs.  

I'm not quite sure where one draws the line on aging sheep, when it would be a mercy to cull or, if just wanting more hooves on the ground to keep down grass, just separate them out at breeding time....but then I would have to keep the rams out of the grazing pattern for several months for one old sheep.    Not a good thing.   

I just love the old sweety.


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## Baymule

Your Rose reminds me of my Miranda Lambert. Miranda has a big belly, even when she's not pregnant. When she is pregnant, she is HUGE!  Your ewes sure are looking good.


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## Baymule

Here's Miranda, NOT pregnant and she is currently nursing twins. 

 
​


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## Beekissed

Yep, that's a Rose body!   That's the type B body that I'll be culling out of the flock.  I love Rose and I know I'm going to love her mothering abilities, but I'll likely not keep any of her lambs with this body style.   I'll keep them long enough to use them for grazing and hooves on the ground, but likely won't keep any for breeding back.  

The other ewes have the body style I'm going for, so there should be options from their lambs to keep for going forward.


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## Baymule

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water! Look at that long loin on Miranda. She twins with every birth and has a milk bag that the goaties turn green with jealousy over. Her twin lambs from Ringo are very nice, but both are boys. I have three daughters from her, but they were sired by that raunchy Dorper ram. I Will cross my fingers for ewe lambs from her and Ringo for the next lambing. The two wethers she is raising are both very nice I sure wish the black one had been a ewe. He definitely took after his sire.

If Rose has a ewe lamb, you might want to keep her for the purpose of hooves on the ground until you can raise enough ewe lambs to start culling hard. I am keeping 3 out of 5 ewe lambs this year and sending one 3 year old ewe to slaughter. She will become tenderized round steak and pan sausage. I have a couple more that may not make the cut as I go forward that I might consider selling as bred ewes, they aren't bad, but they aren't great either.

ETA: Miranda also has great worm resistance too and THAT is one of my culling criteria. Right before and after lambing, when the worms crank it up, she still has extremely low numbers. Her black lamb shows worm resistance, the long loin and lovely hair coat. Her white lamb shows low worm resistance, long loin, hair coat, but is not growing off as well as the black lamb.


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## Beekissed

I know she has a long loin and she may also have good parasite resistance...and I will keep her lambs until I get enough hooves on the ground.   But....and there's always a butt, isn't there?    

....Shine, May and June also have long loins and I've yet to see their parasite resistance and that goes for all of them....so I want to start as I intend to end.   By culling for those with the right body style AND all the other good traits.  

If you'll look at that body style, they are pinched in the hindquarters, so the loin doesn't actually extend the whole length of their spine as well as the loin on the type A bodies.   They also don't have the thickness and length of hams that the type A bodies do, while having a heavier bone structure~heavier through the shoulders but no real meat.   They have too much spring of the ribs, though some is good, too much is not so good.   

I'll have to see how both body styles perform in lambing as well, where the type B may lamb easier due to all that room in their abdomen for lamb growth and proper birthing positions.   I don't want to cull for appearances and lose the function....too many folks doing that in breeding towards breed standards...but I do want a meatier carcass while still retaining all the other good traits.  

The final goal is all the good traits of the Katahdins, while having a certain uniformity of body styles as well.   When folks buy off my place I want them to have some consistency of type AND good traits to show for it.


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## Baymule

It's all a work in progress, isn't it? It sure is fun!


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## Beekissed

Don't know about y'all, but sometimes these sheep have me scratching my head.   These nipple drinkers I have only stick out about 3-4 in. from the wall and the bowl/cup isn't any bigger than my cupped hand...and I have small hands.   

Somehow, not once or even twice, these sheep manage to fill that cup neatly with poop.  Now, this cup is not horizontal but a vertical cup, if you know what I mean....I could see this happening if it's just a bowl sticking out from the wall and they happened to back up to it once or twice, but I'd have trouble filling this bowl like that, intentionally, and getting all those turds to stay mounded up in it.  

I can just see them snickering among themselves as they take turns backing carefully up to these tiny drinking bowls and aiming a big load of berries directly into that small receptacle....sort of a statement about what they think of these small drinkers.  

But, how in the world do they DO it?   SMH....


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## Baymule

St least they don’t throw it at you. LOL


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## Beekissed

Penning the sheep this winter until I can get proper fencing built has yielded a few positive things, though it makes me cringe every time I go up there, as I've always felt strongly about penned animals in small feedlots...and here I am, penning some animals.  Can't WAIT to get them out on the land.  The incessant and torrential rainfall has really put a wrench in anyone doing anything out on the land right now also, so I feel pretty antsy about getting things started.   

But, it has had a few bonuses....Shine, my wild girl, has settled down a good bit when I walk into the pen she seems more accustomed to me, doesn't run like a deer and taking the rest with her.   I'm hoping that was God's plan all along, so that when they are out on pasture full time and I want to move them from one paddock to another that don't actually touch each other, that they will gladly follow where I lead.  

What charmed the black sheep of the family?   Feed, for one...alfalfa cubes or pellets, BOSS and a dab of oats has turned me into "the food bringer".   But the real clincher was those peanut butter dog biscuits.  Even with the feed, Shine was still very flighty and wouldn't let me get a hand on her...but the power of the peanut butter has her letting me pet her face, walk next to her with our bodies touching, putting my hand on her back~she still will jump away from that but not as violently as before.   

It also tamed down another member of the flock....Fat May, previously known as simply May, who would knock you down and take your lunch money if she had a place to spend it on food.   Those two ewe lambs were always more laid back than the other two, even on their first day here, but Juniper has since become a wallflower, standing at the back, dodging out of the way of touches and not really enjoying human contact.  

Fat May, on the other hand, will now let me randomly grab her head and give her a good scratching as she closes her eyes and tilts her chin for more.   She LOVES the peanut butter cookie lady and her jaw scratchies.  I sure hope she turns out to have a lot of good positive traits as time goes on, as shepherd life is much easier when the sheep let you touch them or hold them still without fighting you on it.   Sure would love to have more easy going sheep that enjoy cuddles....though I could do without them taking out my kneecaps when I have feed in my hand.  LOL

Loving this sheeple life!


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## Baymule

You will get pasture ready for them. They aren’t being abused, you are giving them the best care and they are deciding you are not a monster. Sounds pretty good to me.


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## Beekissed

Have a chance to pick up some great hay if it turns out to be of good quality.   Down here alfalfa or alfalfa mixed with orchard grass is going for at least $6-7 a bale, so I never buy it....but this old fella has some for $3 a bale and stored in the barn.   Has 100 bales, so we are thinking of picking up 40 if our trucks and trailer will hold them.  

That will be good as a supplement during lambing if our grass hasn't come in well by then.  Easier for me to handle out on pasture and more likely to be eaten at that time of year.   

Just rolled our last big bale into the pen and they attacked it like piranha....exact same hay as the last bale but each one is greeted like something new and better than the last.   Funny girls!  

Will be getting a bigger trailer this spring so we can take advantage of any deals for mulch hay to roll out on the land but also to feed next winter....after seeing how the girls went for the middle of those old bales this summer/fall, I've learned my lesson on hay.   Why buy expensive when they will eat free hay and get fat on it?


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## Mike CHS

Free hay is hard to beat if they will eat it.  If my sheep get a bale that doesn't suit their desires, they will just leave it.


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## Baymule

The hay we buy is Bermuda. That and Bahia is about the only grasses that survive the heat.


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## Ridgetop

We feed alfalfa.  It is the most available here on the west coast and is usually the cheapest.  Alfalfa has the highest protein level so no need to supplement our horses unless like 2 of our last sweeties, they were so old that they had no teeth and couldn't chew hay.  Then we fed them Purina Senior with a little hay for them to mouth.

When feeding Alfalfa which is high in protein and calcium we don't have to supplement the sheep much either.  When feeding any grain I have switched over to rolled barleycorn and they do fine on that.  Also less than half the price than  any sheep or lamb ration.   The Dorsets I had on a higher cost sheep ration in the creep, but the Dorpers don't need as much protein to gain and produce a good carcass.


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## Beekissed

Got our first farm machinery yesterday....a used 4 wheeler.  Haven't ridden one in over 25 yrs but will be having to get on there and learn it all over again.   Since we are doing low input farming, we won't ever be using a tractor here and the 4 wheeler has less impact on the soils than a truck or tractor.  

We'll also be making a bale roller this year so we can more easily roll out mulch and feed bales on the land this first year and probably into the second year, which is usually how long it takes to produce pasture enough in MIG to be able to grow a good winter stockpile.   The goal is to eventually not have to purchase hay and roll it out at all, though it's advised to have some hay each winter in case of heavy snows.   Sheep can dig through lighter snows, but really thick or highly crusted snows may require hay supplementing.  

I'm pretty tickled to have this work horse on the land, as I've been using my old Cub Cadet for dragging, pulling and hauling things up to now and it's just not built for that.   I'll continue to use it for light duty here but the 4W will be able to do the heavy work and it's meant for the task.  

Need to get a hitch and winch for it, as well as a cover until we can get the pole barn/wood shed extension built to store it under.


----------



## Baymule

I am thrilled for you. A piece of machinery can sure make it easier on the farm! You can even get a small wagon to pull behind it too. That’s great Bee, I’m really happy for you!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I am thrilled for you. A piece of machinery can sure make it easier on the farm! You can even get a small wagon to pull behind it too. That’s great Bee, I’m really happy for you!



We got it mainly to pull a wagon with the water tanks, minerals and dog feeder on it through out pasture rotations....some places are up hill and our old mower just wouldn't be able to do it, especially in the winter months.  Eli and I are going to build or retrofit a wagon to hold all these items efficiently.


----------



## thistlebloom

I like our quad. We use it to plow the driveway in the winter. It's small enough to drive through the trees, and we also have two small trailers to pull behind it. You'll get a lot of use out of it.


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## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> I like our quad. We use it to plow the driveway in the winter. It's small enough to drive through the trees, and we also have two small trailers to pull behind it. You'll get a lot of use out of it.



That small enough to weave through the trees is the important part, as well as having the right clearance of stumps, fallen logs and brush and having the power to pull logs or wagons through that kind of terrain.  My mower just can't do it.


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## Beekissed

Took the 4wheeler, which I will now refer to as Sally...as in Mustang Sally, out for a spin yesterday, "racing" my 5 yr old grandgirl on HER Barbie toy quad bike named Pinky, which we got for $25 at a yard sale a few years back....man, that thing is FAST!   She loves to go fast, that one.

Well, Miss Sally is also fast, with way more power than I'm used to, so I have to really learn how to keep it a steady and slow pace around here.....but there for a minute I felt kind of young on that bike.    Remembered how much I used to have a need for speed.

Will have to resist that urge.     The sheep didn't seem to mind the quad, so they must be familiar with such a thing, which is a bonus, and the dogs didn't mind it either.  That's all good.

Going after hay today, if the Lord wills it.  Due to conflicts with Mom's line dancing schedule, can't take both trucks, so can't get all the hay we want tomorrow, but may revisit his place if we like the quality and get more later.

Aliza loves the sheep and enjoys "grooming" them, so we cornered them in the pen and snagged Shine, her favorite and the most wild, of course.  Clipped her to a lead and brushed her all over, which she stood very still for and even seemed to enjoy a bit, against her better judgement.  Aliza is a natural with livestock and the sheep don't treat her like a stranger, though she doesn't get to work with them as much as she likes.  The peanut butter biscuits were the key to getting Shine, and all the rest, to not mind us touching them, brushing them and otherwise woman handling them.

Got to brush down Rose, which didn't need clipped to a lead, while she ate alfalfa pellets and such...she enjoys being brushed.   Shine doesn't normally enjoy any kind of handling, but even she seemed to really like getting a rough brush down all over....she has entirely different hair/wool than all the others and I hope to breed that into my flock greatly....it's a short, wiry/woolly, but still distinctly hair, coat.  It never looks rough or even bushy but stays close to her form and glistens in the sun, hence her name.

Rose has hair more like a horse, coarse hair with an undercoat of fine cream colored wool along the top of the back.

May and Juniper are typical Dorper cross sheep, with raggedy and dirty looking wool that is shedding in little streamers right now...NOT a coat I enjoy having in the flock.  Can't really brush them at all, but I did get to pull a few tags of shedding wool off them as they passed by. 

It was fun for Aliza and she said it's one of her favorite things to do here, groom the sheep.  I love that about her.   She also enjoys catching up "her" chicken, just to see if she can.   So glad I have this opportunity to fuel her farming personality, even in this small way.   She was born to be a farm girl, that one.  So was I, so we have a lot in common and have been BFFs from the beginning.

A good day on the homestead and I thank God for it!!!


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## Baymule

I love it that your sweet granddaughter loves the farm life. The lessons you teach her may take years to bloom, you may even be gone from this earth, but someday she will say, “My grandma taught me......” My husband asks me how I know things and I tell him I just know. My Daddy, my grandparents taught me. Those lessons of long ago are embedded in my very being, as natural to me as breathing. You are doing the same with your grandchildren. You never know when that seed you plant now will take root and grow.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

She’s your granddaughter?  I thought the little girl in your avatar is your daughter?  I was under the impression that you are about 35 yrs old?  Boy, you a young grandmother!


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## Beekissed

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> She’s your granddaughter?  I thought the little girl in your avatar is your daughter?  I was under the impression that you are about 35 yrs old?  Boy, you a young grandmother!


 I'll be 54 in April and that little girl in the avatar is now 5 and will be 6 in March.   I feel both young and old, as my body is growing older than it should at this age, but my heart and mind are still quite young in a lot of ways.  

But, like Bay says, my grandmother planted seeds in my young heart and mind from my tender years and I collected all that old people wisdom down through the years, so I was always older than other kids my age and still seem to be.  Also, moving off grid at the age of 10, living in log cabins with no electricity or running water, homesteading and living off the land....all that stuff made me more able to converse with and get along with the older generation who also grew up that way....kind of changed my life and perspective, so I've kind of lived outside my generation's era all these years.  

Aliza is much the same way....her grammar, her thought processes, her memory is razor sharp, and her humor is waaaaayyyyyyyy beyond her age, which is why she and I get along so well...peas in a pod, we two.      When your two best friends in the world are 85 yrs old and 5 yrs old, you know you are between worlds.


----------



## Beekissed

Got some gorgeous hay yesterday!   This stuff was put up right, is horse quality orchard and alfalfa, and such a good price I had to retain this old guy's number for future use.   He has two farms, one of which is far away from this one...he transports 1200 bales a year up to this farm from the other one to sell in these parts and for use in his rescue horses.  

Hay this good is usually $7-8 per bale, so getting it for $3 was simply a blessing, pure and simple.   Can't wait to let the girls get a sniff of this...they will go cra-cra.   Will be using this when I finally get them out on the land and for lambing season.  

Thirty bales stacked under the carport....chickens will soon discover it and start to make nests there, which makes egg collection much easier until it warms up and black snakes and possum discover said nests, which will then have to be wrecked and discouraged.


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## thistlebloom

Wow, that's an excellentprice! I pay between 7 and 8 for orchard alfalfa (80/20).


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## Baymule

Congrats on the hay! That is a great deal, don't blame you for keeping the phone number.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

So you lived without electrinity or running water growing up?  Wow!  My old farmer friend...who I often refer to...he’s not old...he’s just an old friend who happens to have farmed his whole life.      Anyways, he doesn’t have running water even now.  He only heats with a wood stove.  So, the whole house doesn’t get warm.  We keep our very very big house pretty cool due to cost...we use a wood stove and gas heat.  We keep it between 57*-60*.  We layer up.  But, he likes his life on a more, old style way of living.  If he could..I know he’d go off the grid.  He just doesn’t have the money for land.  Everyone has been asking us if we’re going to start only living off our farm...no more stores, etc.  I don’t think either of have it in us.  Our garden is huge, and I’m even looking into going ‘farm to table’ so I can sell to restaurants this year.  But, I will always need my Jif!  . It sounds like you and Aliza are just made for each other.  That’s the best!  My son has that with my Dad...what a Blessing since my ex husband wasn’t in the picture.  Are her parents farmers too?


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## Beekissed

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> So you lived without electrinity or running water growing up? Wow! My old farmer friend...who I often refer to...he’s not old...he’s just an old friend who happens to have farmed his whole life.  Anyways, he doesn’t have running water even now. He only heats with a wood stove.



We still only heat with a wood stove.  Back when we lived fully off grid, we had a wood cook stove in the kitchen and a barrel stove in the living area....which were the only two rooms we had.  We were toasty warm all winter long but come summer, cooking and canning on that wood cookstove could get a bit too warm.   We had the top half of that room screened and just covered it with plastic for winter.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Wow...two rooms!!  How many people??  I bet you guys are all very close knit.  That’s nice.


----------



## Beekissed

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Wow...two rooms!!  How many people??  I bet you guys are all very close knit.  That’s nice.



 No, we were not the Waltons, no matter how  much I wished we were.  When we moved back there, there were 4 kids still in school, but with older kids drifting back home from the military, divorce(and bringing their kids along), etc.  Any given time there could be 6-8 people sleeping in one room.   And not a big room....I could reach out and touch my parent's bed, I slept with my sister and my brother bunked over us.  

I'm the youngest of 9 kids and everyone always asked us if we were like the Waltons, but, alas, none of us are close to one another and weren't even before moving off grid and into smaller situations.   

But, I never complain about how we lived, as it formed my whole perspective on life and how much a person actually needs in order to live it....not much, as it turns out.   I wish every person on Earth had to live that way for a good portion of their lives so they could realize just how little one needs in order to be content.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

You are sooo right about a simpler way of life.  I grew up pretty spoiled, from a wealthy background.  My husband actually makes a lot of money too...but we are major penny pinchers!  When we go on road trips, we take sack lunches.  We never eat out.  We cook from scratch.  We have no debt.  Living simple...’off the grid’ appeals to me in sooo many ways.


----------



## Beekissed

Finally got a start...however small....on the fencing for the sheep.   Rented a 2 man post hole auger, though it had to be used as a one man, one woman auger.  Not ideal, as I'm short and old, son is young and tall.    
Much frustration and strained muscles later, we had several holes dug for gate posts, corner posts and support posts for the barn/wood shed.   

Got a few gates, will put in posts tomorrow for those and hopefully put in corner posts as well.   And that's just for B paddock and a few in A paddock.  Timber guys are currently working to remove large trees and pines out of B paddock so we can get started on getting this fence, at least, done so as to get the sheep out on fresh soils for lambing.  

Will order line posts next week~using Timeless t posts for that~and charger, as well as will be buying tensioners, fencing jenny, wire and other items for getting this fence up.   Later will order the line reels and polybraid.  This one will be the most difficult, whereas the others will just be tying into this one and stringing line.  

Neither of us have ever put in high tensile fencing, so this should be quite the learning curve....hope and pray we get it done right.  We'll soon find out if we did.  If we did, then it's the sheep and dogs' turn to learn a thing or two about electric fencing.   OUCH.  I'm sure I'll get juiced more than once in this journey, as I'm very clumsy, so they won't be alone.


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## thistlebloom

What type of charger are you going to be using Bee?


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## Jesusfreak101

I agree with be zapped.i done it more then once actually happened while i was pregnant with my youngest there was a immediate call to the midwife to make sure the baby was fine.


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> What type of charger are you going to be using Bee?



We were thinking about getting a Cyclops, but they are in the middle of a warehouse move and won't be able to ship orders until after March 21st, which may or may not line up with when we will need it, depending upon how quickly we can get this fence in.  

In light of that, we may go with a Zareba....not sure.


----------



## thistlebloom

Beekissed said:


> We were thinking about getting a Cyclops, but they are in the middle of a warehouse move and won't be able to ship orders until after March 21st, which may or may not line up with when we will need it, depending upon how quickly we can get this fence in.
> 
> In light of that, we may go with a Zareba....not sure.



Solar or AC?
I have been using a Zareba solar at one of my jobs that's vacant in the winter to keep the deer damage down. So far I'm happy with it.


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## Baymule

Bee, maybe you should start a new thread, linked to this one and link this one to the new thread. A new thread on putting up electric fence, it would help anyone searching for “how to” and it would open up more discussion on the subject. Just a thought.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Bee, maybe you should start a new thread, linked to this one and link this one to the new thread. A new thread on putting up electric fence, it would help anyone searching for “how to” and it would open up more discussion on the subject. Just a thought.



I'll try to do that, Bay...good idea.   Most of my how to on electric fence thus far has been gleaned from watching Greg Judy vids. 

Took some pics of the girls, out on grass for a little bit because it was so very pretty out.   We don't have much grass yet, but it was enough for a taste.   Gave them some alfalfa/orchard grass hay to sample along with their greens so they wouldn't get a bellyache from the sudden change in diet...and, being the smart sheep they are, they did indeed take turns on grass and hay until the hay was nearly gone.  

If you are wondering about what Blue is wearing in these pics, it's a triangle of PVC that keeps him from worming his way in the pop door of my coop and stealing all my eggs.  It's working great, BTW.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

I live Blues bling!! . The sheep are beauties too!!


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## Beekissed

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> I live Blues bling!! . The sheep are beauties too!!



It also has the added benefit of defeating Ben in any coup attempts, which is kind of funny.   Thank you for the sheepy compliment...wish the cross girls didn't have all that nasty wool to get rid of, but I think Shine is looking pretty sleek even while preggers.


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## Baymule

Your girls are looking lovely, they are so healthy and happy. It makes me smile, I know how long you have wanted this. I am beyond delighted for you. Blue's collar made me bust out laughing, I turned the computer around to show BJ and he laughed too. Yeah, I bet that does work! Thanks to Joy Chicken laying her egg in Sentry's dog house, he is one humdinger of an egg sucking dog.


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## Beekissed

I think my old gal may have been a victim(not really, she would have had to back up to it)of a fence line breeding, as she's presenting with increased signs of imminent lambing.   Even though she was the first to be bred when I joined the ram to the sheep, she was also standing for him and letting him attempt to breed further when they were finally all separated.   She's an old hussy, what can I say?  

Chances are she backed up to that gate for him, as she's settling further and she's bagging up more each day, way beyond the others.  Getting that more caved in look to her flanks...granted, she looks like that most of the time anyway, as she sort of has that milk cow/goat body style....but MORE so these past few days.  

In light of that and not wanting to lamb in that winter pen, I'm going to keep the girls out on the grass from now on~at least, when I'm home~ so she can find a clean place to lamb, to isolate herself from the others, etc.   Will be working hard this weekend to get the fence up and in place, several fencing things being shipped here as I type this, but I have a feeling Rose is going to have lambs way before we can get a good paddock established.  

I was kind of hoping Rose would be lambing first, but closer to the date of the others, of course.  She has fostered other lambs at her previous  home and I was wanting to have that ability on hand~ was even one of the reasons I chose her.   Don't know if a ewe with older lambs will accept a new one or if the older lambs will even let a younger, weaker lamb nurse, so her usefulness in that regard may be null and void.  

Kind of exciting waiting for lambs and I pray that all goes well.


----------



## Baymule

Lambs! I can't wait! How exciting for you Bee!


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## Beekissed

Worked on hanging gates, bracing corners and getting everything ready for stringing wire today.   Fence posts arrive on Monday.    We hope to have most of the wire strung through the woods in B paddock and all the corners ready to receive the line when we get the posts installed in the open areas.  

Got the charger today and I never knew it would be so BIG.   It's big as a lunch box!   I've only ever had chargers that were the cheapy $30 kind, small and simple.   This is a big, red behemoth!   It's a Cyclops brand, "The Stallion" version.   

Today was absolutely a beautiful, typically March day, with dramatic cloud movement, warm breezes that dried the land out a little from all the rains.   The peach blossoms opened today and I saw scout honeybees around the shed.   Need to get my hive baited....NOW.   

Perfect day for work, perfect day for the sheep to get out on the land and range around....I could tell they loved it.  May stood with her nose into the wind and closed her eyes....looked like pure bliss on her face.   Blue hung around the sheep most of the day, as he was supposed to do but soon got bored and laid up higher in the yard to watch over them.  

They got good exercise today, a good bit of grass though it's still mighty short here, and they got out on the clean soils.   Rose still looks to be progressing faster than the other girls, so the fencing is really important now....I really want her to lamb in B paddock and not in that winter pen.  

Will get them out of the pen tomorrow too while we work on fencing and enjoy watching them be where they are supposed to be...out on the green grass, heads down and the fresh wind over their bodies.


----------



## Beekissed

Tried out my homemade sheep chair yesterday and it works just as good as the Premier chairs seem to work....needs a tweak here and there to improve it, but overall made trimming a few hooves much easier.  Made this one from a pool ladder and bungee cargo netting~the netting is the thing that needs work....I'll likely switch that to a canvas sling with bungee on the edges instead.  Less chance of getting legs caught up in the bungee and also gives more support. 

Trimmed the Dorp cross girls' hooves, which had become over grown this winter while walking around on all this soft, cushy DL.   The other two were fine.   I'm hoping the Dorp's hooves will be less prone to this when they are all wearing their hooves off naturally on pasture.  Got to try out my new hoof trimmers, which were GREAT....very sharp and just the right size for the job. 

Dosed the two older gals with garlic, mother ACV and raw honey just because...their FAMACHA is fine but not as nice as the two younger, so figured they could use a boost during this last stage of pregnancy.   Rose hated it but Shine seemed to really love the taste, fought me less and overall has calmed down her wild butt lately.....and I blame it all on the power of the peanut butter dog biscuits.   She's CRAZY over those and has even warmed up to Eli since he's been feeding her one now and again. 

They were out on the grass yesterday and seems to need less and less of the hay to buffer what they are consuming out there, pellets are wonderfully small, round and shiny, so the grass doesn't seem too rich for their diet.   They are staying around close and are following me right into the pen each evening for night penning, which is nice.   No wrangling to get them back into fences. 

Fence building is going slowly....lots of rain here to halt things and getting deliveries of materials has slowed down a bit, so not getting them when I have the help to use them.  Son only gets some consecutive days off every two weeks, so it makes it hard to get any momentum going if those days are hindered by anything. 

The girls look good, though Rose looks far more advanced in her pregnancy than the others.   I'm glad this winter is over and they will soon be out on the land instead of in that confined space....can't wait to have the whole fence done and have them on rotational grazing.   That's when the real benefit to them begins! 

Talking with a person who has Anatolian pups for sale, ready in May, that we can go fetch in VA.  Are wanting a female so we can produce our own dog replacements if and when it's necessary.   Ben has a last chance to stay on the land in high tensile...if he can't stay put he will be quietly retired from service and this female will take his place.


----------



## Beekissed

It's a sunny, breezy 67* here today and I've got lambs!   First born of the season, set of twins to my old gal, Rose.  Ram lambs, good size and healthy, mama doing well.  She had them on day 147, which is right on the average.   A good, steady ewe. 

Will get pics later...busy day here.   I'm thanking God for the gift of healthy lambs and a good lambing for all concerned.


----------



## Beekissed

Another lamb...ram lamb again.  Healthy and vigorous but Mom doesn't know if she wants to lick him to death or butt him every time he goes to nurse.   First timer....


----------



## Baymule

I can't wait to see pictures!


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## thistlebloom

!!


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## Beekissed

The past few days I finally got a chance to take a few pics....



















And folks think you need to get goats to have milk and to get one's brush eaten down. Just look at that nice udder!

 







May's tiny single...out of the woods and doing fine today, strong and vigorous.













This whole section of the yard is covered in little purple violets....spring is here!!! Violets, bluebirds, lambs and all the lovely things that go with. Hallelujah!!!!


----------



## Baymule

Aw, Bee they are beautiful. I am so happy for you, you have lambs now!


----------



## thistlebloom

Congratulations on the arrival of your lambs Bee!  
Those are beautiful pictures.


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## Mike CHS

As always, some great pictures and just in time for spring.


----------



## Beekissed

Finally got the sheep into an electrified paddock yesterday evening....and in the night we had a VERY violent thunder storm with lightning strikes close by, high winds, hail, torrential rain and uprooted trees in the yard.   Figures, huh?   The only thing missing is a lambing in the middle of it.....    

Went to check the sheep after the worst of the storm, as the dogs were barking like crazy~haven't got a dog in that paddock yet as both of my dogs are currently worthless mutts not worthy of the food they consume each day~and they all were fine.   Figure a coyote was out roaming, as both dogs were going at it...usually only happens when a serious threat is around.   The sheep were fine, shaking off the rain and lambs were up and nursing.   

The lambs have reached the constant frolic stage, which I could watch all day long!   They also have experienced the fence several times each, but don't seem to learn from it.    The cats sure learned....the finest of redneck reality TV going on when we got that fence up and running.   We pulled up chairs and just watched the entertainment....which turned into annoyance when Ben explored the perimeter and promptly slipped under the 10 in. bottom wire without getting much of a zap.   Folks said put a ground wire down at ground level, but I know more experienced ranchers than me who have done so, with barbed wire no less, and their dogs still get out and have to wear a drag all the time.  

So, today is innovation day wherein I devise antennae for Ben's collar to see if that will give the desired result.   This is Ben's last chance on the farm....he's taken to ignoring his invisible fence boundary and going walk about every chance he gets and now he won't stay in high tensile.   With his issues about loud noises and running off, he can't very well be moved to a different home....he'll just be anxious in a strange place and STILL wind up dead on the road or in a shelter, passed from person to person as they fail to keep him confined or from going T totally crazy every time it thunders.   If we can't keep him in the fence and on the job this time, we'll have to take care of that issue in a more final manner, which is going to hurt me and the grandgirls quite a bit~but the alternative is that he gets shot out there or hit on the road(which he already did one time recently on one of his jaunts).   I just don't see the point in keeping a dog tied up all his life....no good for him nor for us.  

Should be getting more lambs soon and can't wait!


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## thistlebloom

I can picture your lambs running and bouncing Bee, and what great entertainment that is! I can also picture a cat intercepting the wire  😁.  

Could you shave Bens back so he has to touch the wire? 

I'm not necessarily recommending this but it worked for me to keep a cattle dog in an area where he was persistently slipping under the hot wire - I baited it and had no more escapes from there on out. I suppose a lot of people would call it cruel, but much less cruel than getting hit by a car, or shot when he herded peoples livestock without permission.


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## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> I can picture your lambs running and bouncing Bee, and what great entertainment that is! I can also picture a cat intercepting the wire  😁.
> 
> Could you shave Bens back so he has to touch the wire?
> 
> I'm not necessarily recommending this but it worked for me to keep a cattle dog in an area where he was persistently slipping under the hot wire - I baited it and had no more escapes from there on out. I suppose a lot of people would call it cruel, but much less cruel than getting hit by a car, or shot when he herded peoples livestock without permission.



I agree.   Cruel is in the eye of the beholder....everyone says send him to a pet home situation, but that would be more cruel than death for a dog that has only ever been outdoors, gets highly anxious if brought indoors and also is decidedly an alpha dog where other dogs are concerned.   The fits he throws when anxious about thunder or gunfire is another issue...he goes completely wild eyed crazy, clawing anything nearby, digging holes, jumping and yelping or running flat out for the wild blue yonder.  Who would want that in their homes or around their children?  

I don't know about keeping Ben's back shaved...he's out in the sun and elements all the time, so that fur of his protects him in so many ways.  I don't even agree with people who clip their GPs in hot weather....those long guard hairs insulate the dog from the heat, so removing them just makes the discomfort worse and exposes them to more biting pests.   It could come down to that, all the same, as I really want him to be able to live here, work here and remain free upon the land as much as possible without endangering him...weighing a hair cut against killing him is an easy choice.   Good suggestion!!!!


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## thistlebloom

You wouldn't have to keep it shaved. Shave once, set it up for him to get a good shock and he'll remember it. It would have to be a deliberate scenario. One where you have made an easy way for him to want to crawl under that wire, after you've given him a haircut, and where you are removed from the situation but can keep an eye on him to know he's done his homework and learned his lesson.


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## frustratedearthmother

And wet him down too!  I had to take drastic action when my LGD's were jumping the fence and the hot wire.  I took a lightweight chain and hung it off of the hot wire and laid it out in an "s" pattern on wet ground.  Then I took the dogs for a walk.  With luck, after a few tries they would step on that chain and realize that they could be "bitten" by the fence without even touching it.  Moved the chain a few times to different areas and did the same trick.  These dogs don't even get close anymore, lol.


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## Beekissed

Now that we have the sheep in a paddock....but with no dog that will actually STAY in the paddock with them, we are currently shopping for a donkey for a guardian.   Going to look at this girl today.....


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## thistlebloom

I love donkeys! We have a crippled mini mule and I could listen to his chuckling bray all day long. It never fails to make me laugh.
If our acreage was fenced I'd get a pair of BLM burros just to let roam around and eat brush. And listen to them bray.


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> I love donkeys! We have a crippled mini mule and I could listen to his chuckling bray all day long. It never fails to make me laugh.
> If our acreage was fenced I'd get a pair of BLM burros just to let roam around and eat brush. And listen to them bray.



I think that will make me chuckle as well.....I love that sound!   She's very sweet and quiet, gentle and easily handled.  Can't wait to get her here~tomorrow!!!~and give her a good all over brushing, trim her hooves and just give her some attention each day.   

The guy is also giving me some antique cart shafts and a single tree, along with her shipping halter.  I'm tickled!!!  Been thanking my good, good Lord all day long and just floating about a foot off the ground.  

Also may have found a safer home for Ben, one with better fencing than we have and young children to love on him, so that was a praise as well.   My cup runneth over!!!


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## Baymule

That is double the good news! A guardian donkey and a home for Ben. I like donkeys, they are so smart, so wise and just fun to have around.


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## Beekissed

Willow...our new, sweet donkey.   She was calm when she arrived, let us pet her and brush her all over and just explored the paddock and the strange things in it.   They are scared to death of her but they'll get over it.   She seems to want to join them but they keep running away.   She's definitely the boss of the food....May soon found that out.    She's very gentle, calm and quiet.   The dogs think she's a definite threat, so I've been giving Blue a zap every time he barks at her.


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## frustratedearthmother

Ahhhhhhh!


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## Baymule

Awww..... she looks so sweet.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Awww..... she looks so sweet.



She is....until she gets near Shine and her lamb, then she tries to kill the lamb.   Also tried to kill our new 2 mo..old LGD pup.   Sweet in all other ways and with humans, ignores the adult sheep and other lambs.....just wants to kill THAT one.   It looks like all the rest, a little white lamb.  

She is currently listed for sale.  She'd make someone a great pet or project donkey or even a brood jenny....but not a sheep or goat guardian.  

The new pup is a fawn Anatolian female that my son bought, called her Charlie.   Don't ask me why, but since we have a ram lamb named Sweety Blossom and a tom cat named Ruffles, I guess it all works here on messed up acres.  

 She's a sweety, as all pups are, and it only took her two days to learn how to act around the sheep to avoid getting butted, which impressed me greatly.   She has learned to lie down in a submissive posture when they go to butt her and they back off and leave her be....at first she growled and barked at them while cowering, now she's showing proper submission and curiosity towards them, which they are now allowing.   Sharp as a tack, especially since she's never really worked with livestock at all.  

I have high hopes for this one!   

June never lambed, though she still could as I kept the ram in with them for almost 2 months.   We got all ram lambs thus far and the twins from Rose are the best looking of the bunch and were also larger at birth than the other two.  The other two will likely be wethered for meat this fall while Rose's two will be sold as breeding ram lambs.   

We'll be reevaluating Shine after next year...if she doesn't twin next season, it's likely she'll be culled.  May is a first timer, so she will get another season as well to show her genetics.   Rose is a keeper, though she doesn't have the body style I particularly like, she has a stellar udder, had wonderful lambs and is a great mother as well as a docile sheep to have around.   If June doesn't lamb this season at all, she'll be butchered this fall as well.  

We'll be buying two ram lambs and several ewe lambs this season to add to the flock.


----------



## Baymule

And that is why I sold my mule, she wanted to stomp to smithereens everything that wasn't a horse. She was an equal opportunity hater. 

I'm with you on the dog thing. My Pyrenees are not bonded with the sheep, but protect them by way of territorial protection. Sentry has more bonding than the GP's do, but is limited by his issues. He tries. We watched him yesterday, watching the sheep. he positioned himself where he could survey them all and we marveled at his dedication. And this was a day after a trip to the vet with a ruptured anal gland impaction. (we had him to the vet two days prior and the vet didn't catch it) I'll post that adventure in his thread in a day or so, been busy. Poor crippled leg, no hip socket, sore butt dog, still wants to work. So much heart and dedication wrapped up in a dog suit.


----------



## farmerjan

We had one donkey that loved all the lambs, would stand guard with them as they would all collapse in a pile to sleep.   Had another that hated all the lambs.... he was fine after they got to about 40-50 lb size... just hated the small ones for whatever reason. Ran him with the weaned ones/ ewes without lambs etc.  
We have 2 now that are quite feral that stay with the young rams that are weaned.  They really don't do anything, but are just there.  Donkeys are funny about what they decide they like and don't like. A good one is worth it's weight in gold, one that decides it doesn't like something can be a real menace.

One thing, Most donkeys do not like dogs. As in HATE them.   So I am not surprised about the reaction to the puppy.  Too much like a wolf/coyote/predator to them.  Since we had one that didn't like the little lambs, I am also not real surprised at the reaction, except for her to only dislike one lamb inparticular.  But they are way too smart about some things....


----------



## Beekissed

Added two ram lambs to the flock today....both excellent looking fellows at an incredible price~$125 ea.   Both twins out of big ol' ewes with nice udders.   Will get pics later~will share the FB pics until then~ much too busy right now....traveled all day picking up free bales of mulch hay, then 6 hr round trip for the rams, and got another day like that tomorrow when I'll go transport 20 round bales of barn kept hay~for $5 a bale!!!!!!(folks be clearing out barns for the first cut of the season)   But, first we are buying a really great hay trailer. 

One ram is cream with black speckles on face, ears and all four legs and the other is black with a white blaze, two white socks on hind legs and I think he has white on his tail also.   Both have decent conformation, both a good size for their age(2.5-3 mo.) and both healthy as horses....came from a great place and nice folks.  






He's the lamb in the middle, next to his mama.  





Also added a female Anatolian pup recently,  not sure if I wrote that here on this thread.   She's 2 mo. old and smart as a whip, has learned so much in a week and a half that I'm greatly impressed.   She's already very much in love with the sheep and they seem to like her pretty well too.   She's quiet, obedient, confident and sweet.   

Am thinking about making some Johnson aprons for these two rams and running them in with the ewes until I have to separate out the lambs.....anyone have any negative experiences with those?  Don't want any oops breeding.


----------



## thistlebloom

Congratulations on your new rams Bee, they're handsome!


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Congratulations on your new rams Bee, they're handsome!



TY, Thistle!  I think they were definitely a God send, as that's a rare price for good lambs in this area, especially right now.   Can't wait to see how they develop!


----------



## Baymule

What a find on those two handsome boys! I can’t wait to see how they grow off! They will contribute to your flock. 

Anatolian puppy! Whoo-eeeee! You have been wanting one for a long time. Dreams do come true! 

Great deal on the hay! You sure find some good deals. You hunt, God provides.


----------



## Beekissed

The more I look at those rams the more pleased I am....both are very well balanced animals.  Was looking at how pretty they both are and realized that I got a black ram with white points and a white ram with black points....sort of a ying and yang situation.   No, I'm not calling them that.    

Very pretty boys and I look for them to be very pretty rams as they grow.


----------



## Beekissed

Been hauling hay for days now...have 20 square bales of mulch hay to use on the garden and pasture and have 17 round bales on the land now, going after 14 more tomorrow.   All that hay for $155...all barn kept.   
Placing the round bales up on skids or railroad ties but can't afford enough tarps or plastic to wrap them all, so will just leave them as is and peel off the outer layer as we feed them out.   The sheep really like hay that's been sitting like that and fermenting on the inside of the bale.


----------



## thistlebloom

Great deal on the hay Bee!


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## Beekissed

The two new ram lambs will be getting fed a little oats, alfalfa and BOSS today to get them used to seeing me as the food bringer.   Need to acclimate them to coming to a feed pan before I put them out into pasture, as their life will consist of moving through paddocks to new places on a frequent basis...until we get lush stands of grass, there will be no incentive to move to a new paddock unless I can get them conditioned to the red feed pan enticements.    

Until then, they are confined to a holding pen with alfalfa hay, water and my 30 pieces of silver in the form of feed, in hopes they will start to tame down a bit.


----------



## Baymule

Feed is a good reason for Sheep to love you! Mine can hear my voice and start calling me to feed them. LOL I love it. Spoiled rotten beasts. Do you call them when you feed them? I shriek SHEEP! SHEEP! SHEEP! They run to me. They know there will be a pan of Feed for them.


----------



## Sheepshape

Baymule said:


> Do you call them when you feed them? I shriek SHEEP! SHEEP! SHEEP! They run to me.


Excellent advice. i make a practice of shouting "Girlies, come on Girlies"  and clap my hands. As sheep and lambs get used to you  and associate this behaviour with food, they will come over if you shout of clap your hands.


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## Baymule

Not all my pastures are connected, no problem, because they come when I call, just like the Bible verse. Paraphrasing, “My sheep know my voice and they come when I call.”


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Feed is a good reason for Sheep to love you! Mine can hear my voice and start calling me to feed them. LOL I love it. Spoiled rotten beasts. Do you call them when you feed them? I shriek SHEEP! SHEEP! SHEEP! They run to me. They know there will be a pan of Feed for them.



If they hear my voice at all, they know feed is coming of some kind, so I don't really need to call them unless they are out of casual speaking range~they start yelling and running when they hear me first speak to the cat or dogs.   If at a distance, I just sing out sheep, sheep, sheep~like you!~and then comes the thundering herd.  

I can move them all with a single biscuit in my hand, but I have to move kind of fast or they will trample me and take it from my lifeless body.   Much like the chickens.


----------



## Sheepshape

I dispense with the  'incentives' once the group have learnt the call/clap to come. I feel pretty guilty when I'm calling them for worming/vaccinating etc.....but I always give them some goodies after they have had their treatment.

 With my flock swelled by over a hundred lambs, they are spread over several fields  by age of lambs/breed etc, but all respond to being called.

 My 'Misfits' field of about 20  is the best place to go....they are the most affectionate bunch. They just come over for head/back/belly rubs. The Misfits consist of very elderly ewes (oldest 14), ewes who lost lambs (only 3 this year), lambs who were too small/young to be put to the tup, and a few real 'gems' like Becky (probably brain damaged at birth, limited vision, but fat happy and affectionate  and never bred).


----------



## WyoLiving

Our Guinea Hens come when you call "guineas, guineas, guineas" or "Kitty, Kitty, Kitty", lol.  I think all their squawking makes them hard of hearing.  lol.
The 2 remaining Guinea's like to approach me when I get home from work and remind me that they need to be fed like everyone else.  And, since they were there first, they should get fed first.  Yesterday they followed me into the milkhouse!


----------



## Beekissed

The only problem with the sheep responding to our voices here is that we can't holler back and forth to communicate a need.  Right now we are building fence, so my son will shout, "Hey!  Can you bringBAABAABAABAABAA?" and I'll respond, "I didn't heBAABAABAABAABAAou!!! and we'll keep shouting back and forth until we realize that neither of us can hear a thing over the baaing each time we yell.  

Can't wait until we get these sheep on rotation to the back of the land so we can actually shout some instructions here.     

Rose almost mugged the FedEx man today...he's lucky to escape with his life.   Not sure if she thought that thingy they carry for you to sign was a biscuit or what but they usually don't approach strangers like that.


----------



## thistlebloom

You need walkie talkies! Or semaphore flags!


----------



## Beekissed

Sold the donkey today and she'll be out of here by Thursday.   Had another incident today where she was chasing lambs that had gotten into her section of the paddock, then the mothers went through electric fencing to save their babies, then the donkey bit and tried to stomp on Rose.   It was quite the rodeo and Eli wanted to shoot the thing, but I went directly into the house and put her on CL...within minutes we had a bite on that line.  

I'm so glad that episode is over!   Live and learn.   

Built more fence today....


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## Baymule

I was laughing at your attempts to communicate over yelling Sheep. Same thing here. Sometimes we just call each other on the phone.


----------



## Beekissed

Moved the sheep today in our second true pasture rotation....2 days on the first section was all our grass could stand right now...not much grass in that particular area.  Mom scalped the lawn during last season's drought last year and it's had a hard time recovering from that....just now seeing some grass that is going to seed in places, so it's tall enough to graze here in the middle of the meadow. 

I'm so tickled to actually be starting what we've worked so hard for this past year!   Still have a long, long way to go to get all the paddocks done and functioning in a MIG situation, but it's a start.  B paddock got overgrazed while we were trying to work around Eli's work schedule and the rains, but it should get a nice, long rest and should recover well.   Can't wait to see what happens there after all this trampling, pooping and peeing went on in that paddock.   The apple trees should really benefit from it.

Very lovely to see the sheep browsing on the briers, autumn olive and honeysuckle and then grazing, all in the same paddock.  When I moved the polybraid today, they RAN to the newly opened up section and started mowing down the grass, baaing all the while.  I think they'll get the hang of this moving to new graze every 2-5 days pretty fast.  

The lambs are all healthy, fat and sassy and bouncing all over the place.  Still waiting for one ewe to lamb....Eli thinks she's not preggers but I think she is.  If she goes past the end of May I'll be proved wrong, but we had the ram in with them clear up to New Year's day, so she could lamb any time this month.   If she doesn't lamb, we'll have to decide if we'll keep her and try her in the next breeding or butcher her fat little self....she is one solid chunk of meat.


----------



## Baymule

You are on your way! It is such a good feeling to see your sheep run to fresh pasture. You are working hard to achieve that goal. I am happy for you.


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## Beekissed

Pics of the sheep and the new sheep guardian dog, Charlie(female)....







In this pic below you can see it's time for a paddock change, which is what we did right after this pic. 










One of the new ram lambs in the pic below....he's the more friendly one, but not in a good way.  Will need a lesson in manners soon. 




You can see where we've had the place timbered in the background...we have a LOT of work to do to recover that space and get all that wood and brush worked up.  As you can see, we still don't have much grass to offer in most places in the yard, as the weather has been pretty cold still and we have poor grass to begin with....hoping the sheep will help us improve that. 



These lambs are 1 mo. old~from left to right:  Single ram, twin rams, single ram...all rams thus far, still have one ewe to lamb.  Shine(black ewe)has just about rubbed off her winter coat, all except that pesky top knot on her butt.  The Kat/Dorp cross ewes aren't even attempting to shed/rub off the shed. 




The grass isn't much but it seems to be keeping them fat even while nursing lambs, so I'm pretty pleased.  The lambs are growing and quite sturdy as well.


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## Baymule

I love Charlie! Wow! all your hard work is greening up the pastures. Your lambs look awesome, I see the fence you put up, I see the love of the land in your pictures. I'm sending you a big hug and a goofy grin of pure happiness for you. Dreams do come true.


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## thistlebloom

It's all beautiful Bee.  Good work.


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## Beekissed

Did training on Charlie for staying in the high tensile fencing and the movable temp wire and it yielded positive results.   She's pretty sensitive, so a few vibrations on a little collar reminded her to stay away from the hot wires(she's so little she can just scoot under them in between pulses).   

She's also responding well to leash training(these Anatolians are incredibly smart and intuitive) and was trained on chickens yesterday, but I chose the wrong chicken~an EE that screamed loudly the whole time and scared the pup...NOT the desired result~so will repeat that training with one of my calm, sweet WR hens.  

She also had her first lesson on food etiquette today and responded VERY well to that too.   I'm very pleased with this dog's response to training, she's not a bit stubborn on things.  Will continue to give her lessons each day on leash, manners, sit, stay in the fence, and waiting for her food/letting me mess with her food, etc.   

The sheep had their 6th paddock move today and are down to two wires and even one wire in some places in the temp wires.   Will soon graduate to one wire only, around a foot off the ground, to move them....which really makes it easier on us.  It would be one wire already but I needed to train the pup about staying in the fences first.  Now I need to move Blue down to the paddock and do his training on the fence wire also....he will be moving in rotation with the sheep and Charlie as they get further from the safety of the house, which will be as soon as we finish A paddock.   

Hope to work on making some ram aprons this week/weekend so I can turn the new breeding ram lambs in with the rest of the flock.  When I apply the aprons, I'll be giving the white ram a lesson in human relationships...he's way too disrespectful towards humans after being "spoiled" by his previous owner a bit.   Has lost his respect of humans, but I'll soon put that right..... or he will soon be turned into a wether.  I won't keep a disrespectful animal on hand, particularly a ram.


----------



## Baymule

Bee, you make me smile.


----------



## Beekissed

Blue has become collar wise to the Ecollar and didn't even need any correction for training in the sheep paddock this evening....he has no intention of braving both the electric fence AND the Ecollar.   Just a vibration is all it takes for Anatolians to get their minds right.  Just putting the collar on him produced the desired effect.  

Ben, on the other hand, takes actual shocks to effect a change.  Longer fur, more callous neck to wearing receivers, more bull headed.  

So, Blue's first night in with the sheep on paddock rotation, along with little Charlie.   Charlie really needed this....she's been trying to play with the sheep and getting the rough end of the deal.   She's been roughing Blue up ever since we put him in the paddock and seems tireless.   This is good for both dogs, as Blue hasn't had anyone to play with either....they both need the socialization of play, the exercise, muscle development and the fighting skills it provides.  

Blue is very gentle with the pup....but the pup shows no mercy.  She's going to be boss dog soon and Blue will be her beta, but he's not going to be dominated all the same.  He's got game.  

So far I'm LOVING having Anatolians....smart, intuitive, ferocious when needed but smart enough to know when to apply it.  Friendly and social also.  Not a bit bullheaded, which I also appreciate...nothing worse than a stubborn dog to work with.   

June looks like the lamb is going to burst out of her behind like that alien thing in the movie Alien...if she doesn't lamb soon it will just climb out half grown.  Bagged up, hugely swollen vulva...wish she'd just get it over with because the suspense is killin' me!  

Will be stringing fence tomorrow between thunderstorms and will be trying to do that all weekend.  Gotta get A paddock up and running before we leave for our annual family fishing trip so the sheep will have fresh pasture to run on while we are absent.


----------



## Baymule

Aren't they awesome dogs? I will enjoy reading Blue's and Charlie's journey together with your sheep.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Aren't they awesome dogs? I will enjoy reading Blue's and Charlie's journey together with your sheep.



Bay, how's your new little girl doing? I'm betting she's fitting right in with your nice pack.  

They are...and Blue reminds me of Jake in little ways, which warms my heart.  Not quite as eager to please as Jake, but still has a few of his traits that were unusual. 

Charlie is going to be a great working dog, I do believe.   She's tough and solid and already shows a more bold and aggressive style.   We'll be needing that in light of Blue's more laid back approach.  I think they'll make a good working pair. 

All is quiet out there~well, except the usual night sounds~ which is what I like to hear.   Blue is a quiet kind of dog and only barks at real threats, so I'm hoping he will teach that to Charlie as well.   I like a night where I can hear the frogs, the whippoorwills, and the owls....it's just such a night, 66* and a balmy breeze.  Perfect!


----------



## Beekissed

Blue stayed in the fence and seems a little more relaxed there this morning.  I'm still working out how to feed the dogs without the sheep ganging up on them....when I get my water/mineral wagon built, I'll also build a drag unit for the dogs that will allow them to eat while excluding the sheep, but haven't gotten to that yet.  

So, for this morning, they had to eat under a picnic table that is in the current grazing area.  Not ideal, as the sheep could still kind of nose into their feed pans, but at least they were better able to defend their food there. Next paddock won't have a conveniently placed picnic table, so I'll have to come up with something soon or just bring the dogs out each morning for eating....that would soon become a pain in the patoot.


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## Baymule

What about a pallet safe zone? You are a pallet wizard and I know you can come up with something brilliant.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> What about a pallet safe zone? You are a pallet wizard and I know you can come up with something brilliant.



I'll likely model something off Greg Judy's setup out of cattle panels, but I want it to be designed a little differently.  I want it to have a roller PVC section across the bottom front to allow it to float over obstacles more freely, but it has to have some heavy skids on the sides to keep it from being something the sheep can tip over....May is like a bulldozer and if she can get her head and shoulders into something, there's no stopping her.


----------



## Beekissed

June had a little ewe lamb just  now....had a hard time of it and it took a good bit of time, it being her first and being a good sized lamb.  I had to sneak up on hands and knees and give a tiny bit of traction to get it's head all the way out and after that it was all fine and dandy.  A good hair coat and long back on her...a fine lamb.   We called her July, but likely Aliza will have other ideas about what to call her.


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## Beekissed

Worked from daylight to dark today, got rained on and beat up by the terrain....I'm totally whooped, but I'm a happy woman.   New ewe lamb, more fencing done, grass starting to grow, birds singing like crazy and life bursting out all over.   I've been thanking God all day for the weather, for the work, for the strength to work, for my son to help me....basically for everything.


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## Baymule

You may be tired, but that's a good tired. You ought to sleep good tonight!


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## thistlebloom

Yay for a new little ewe! 
That's a good day, hard work, beauty all around you, a successful addition to your flock, Gods goodness so apparent in everything. You'll have sweet dreams.


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## Beekissed

Got more fence built yesterday, enough so we could tie onto it and annex a little piece of land next to us owned by an absentee owner.  We normally mow this piece for them several times a season, but this year we want to utilize it as graze...it has a lot of good stuff in it and some not so good, but it's all 100% better than what we have to offer on our place, so we feel very blessed to get to use it.  

Got the flock moved down there and was pleased to see Charlie, the now 3 mo. old Anatolian, following the flock instead of the bigger dogs that were being led down by my son behind the move.  This half acre is out of sight of the house, so this is all a bit scary for the bigger dogs.  Ben is tethered in the field, as he can't be trusted to be loose in the temp fencing...or any fencing, for that matter. 

Some pics of the meadow, the sheep, the newest lamb and mother, the dogs, etc.   When next we do this paddock, we'll be sectioning it off into smaller paddocks so we can more greatly impact the grass and soils there.


----------



## Baymule

What nice pasture! Your sheep look very content there.


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## Beekissed

Been a little worried about June since having the lamb, as she's been laying down a lot and I can walk right up to her and touch her head before she gets up, which is NOT like her.  So, today I was headed down to give her a little booster drench but found her up and grazing, alert and quick on her feet.   Could be she was just a bit worn out from the lambing and nursing, but she seems to have recovered today.   

Today was the hottest day we've had, but had a little breeze going, which helped.   I put the booster drench in the water bucket instead, so they will all get a little boost, I guess.  

I'm so very pleased about them all staying in the single strand polybraid, dogs and sheep alike, and pleased with how much good clover and grasses are in that one meadow...the sheep really needed  it after having to eat the skimpy stuff in our own meadow/yard.   I could likely keep them on there for 10 days or more and not see too much impact on it.   

I'm thanking the Lord for His protection over the sheep in that paddock, which is right adjacent to the field we most often hear the coyotes singing in.  I'm also thanking Him for keeping everyone in that fence and doing what they are supposed to be doing.


----------



## Beekissed

Joined the two ram lambs we bought recently in with the flock, after placing some homemade ram aprons on them.   Have decided we won't keep the white ram lamb for breeding...there's several things I don't like about his personality, though his conformation is the better of the two.   I just don't want to breed stupidity and bad temperament into my ewe flock.  

July, the little ewe lamb, is doing fine and so is June, her mother.   That baby will have some mighty rich milk to eat on that graze they are on....very rich.   

Some pics of the two younger dogs, learning to live, work and play together....


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## Baymule

Awww..... they are buddies. They are having fun playing with each other.


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## Beekissed

Am so pleased about how the young dogs are watching over the sheep, lying near by and up slope of them as they graze and lounge.  I think they are going to make a good working pair of dogs.  

I'm also pleased to see the tree/brush line along the current paddock has been trimmed so well that one can now see through there and into the paddock beyond.   Everyone is doing their jobs well!


----------



## thistlebloom

Yay! Happy to hear you have a good pair of dogs working out.


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Yay! Happy to hear you have a good pair of dogs working out.



Just heard Blue barking down there, so went to check it out....and it was deer.  Usually he doesn't bark at deer, but I think he's feeling a little vulnerable down there in coyote territory tonight without Ben.   What surprised me was Charlie, a little 3 mo. old pup, was doing exactly what she should have been...she was sitting back with the sheep, guarding them as they were bunched up at one end of the field, while Blue was out in front, barking at the perceived threat.  

I don't know just HOW they instinctively know to do that, but I think it's amazing!  

I went and reassured him, so now all is quiet.   I'll be listening this night....I moved Ben back up by the coop, so we are spread a little thin right now on dog power.  Blue is only 1 yr old and Charlie is 3 mo., so this is not a solid defense against the coyotes....and there's a single strand of wire between the flock and where we usually  hear the coyotes the most.


----------



## thistlebloom

It really is amazing how they are hardwired to know their job. Sure sounds like they're on the right track. It would be ideal if they could get some more maturity and learn how to work together before there was a real threat.


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## Beekissed

Pics of the flock and dogs today...

This is a paddock they just left...if you'll note the tree line and how the brush has been trimmed all the way across at sheep height.  And folks always tell people to get goats to clear brush!  






In the pic below you can see in the right hand corner where the electric fence kept them from some of the brush at that wood line.  It used to look just like that brush, all the way across that edge of the field.  That brush consists of autumn olive, green briers, various tree sprouts and weeds.  





First day on this new paddock...and the faithful guardians, having been up all night, are sleeping back by those hay bales.  





Three lambs in the front will soon be 2 mo. old and the one on the far right is just over a week old.  The two ram lambs directly behind the three ram lambs we produced are from another farm and are 4 mo. old. 







Almost 4 mo. old ram lambs from another farm, wearing DIY ram aprons I made here from materials I had on hand.


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## thistlebloom

Your land is so pretty, especially with your flock on it. So happy to see it coming together for you Bee.


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## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Your land is so pretty, especially with your flock on it. So happy to see it coming together for you Bee.



Did you see all those tree tops in the background??  Not as pretty as it used to be after all the logging, that's for sure!  Can't WAIT to get those cleared up so we can grow pasture there, but also due to how ugly it all looks.


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## thistlebloom

Well, they're there, but I don't think they detract from the beauty. I'm sure they stand out to you because you are so used to how it used to look.


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## Baymule

What beautiful pasture and sheep. I am so happy for you Bee. This is what you have been wanting for a long time. On the coyote activity, can you put the Sheep in a night pen until the dogs get a little older?


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> What beautiful pasture and sheep. I am so happy for you Bee. This is what you have been wanting for a long time. On the coyote activity, can you put the Sheep in a night pen until the dogs get a little older?


Not with this kind of grazing system...they have to graze as a mob and move often.  Unless I had herding dogs to bring them in and take them out to an ever moving paddock, we couldn't use this system.


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## Beekissed

Been working on a war wagon, so to speak.   Bought a small utility type wagon that can be hauled behind an ATV and have been working on a gravity watering system utilizing a cooler, a float valve and a goat feed trough.   Also hanging a mineral feeder off the side.   

It's also big enough to haul a dog food tote, a tote or bucket for minerals, our reels and push in stakes and just about anything else we need.  We'll also be utilizing some PVC to make a type of continuous feeder for Blue that will allow him to get under the wagon to eat without the sheep bothering him.  We are tickled with the quality and heavy nature of the wagon for the price we paid....$169.00 from TSC.   Turned out to be bigger than it looks in the pic...a lot bigger and heavier.   I'm very pleased!  






						GroundWork 1,400 lb. Capacity Heavy-Duty Steel Utility Cart, GW-1400-2 at Tractor Supply Co.
					

Find GroundWork 1,400 lb. Capacity Heavy-Duty Steel Utility Cart, GW-1400-2 in the Garden Carts category at Tractor Supply Co.Transports Large L




					www.tractorsupply.com
				









The sheep are doing VERY well on paddock moves and are staying in the single strand temp wire that's 12 in. high, which we use to move them along the paddocks.  Blue is staying in it well also.  

Can't wait to work the kinks out of the water wagon...has a few leaks we will work on tomorrow.  This will streamline my work load quite a bit with each paddock move and that makes me smile.  Quicker is better and better is great.


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## Mike CHS

We have one of those wagons and it is well worth the money.


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## thistlebloom

Seems like a great tool. Pictures of it in use would be appreciated! It's encouraging to hear about Blues success and turning into a reliable guardian. That must make your heart lighter.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> We have one of those wagons and it is well worth the money.



Has it held up for you over the years?  It looks very sturdy and tough and we'll put it through some rough use along the way.


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## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Seems like a great tool. Pictures of it in use would be appreciated! It's encouraging to hear about Blues success and turning into a reliable guardian. That must make your heart lighter.



Will take a pic of it when completed and being used....can't wait!   Everything in one place and portable will be such a treat!   Plus, the sheep having nice, clean water on demand is what I've always envisioned.  I can even freeze a 2 ltr pop bottle of water and drop into the cooler on hot days so the water will be even more cool.


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## Mike CHS

We have had it for a little over three years with no problems.


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## Beekissed

Worked on training my youngest LGD, an ASD pup.  Haven't had a chance to work with her much but she's 3 mo. old now and the sooner the better.   Worked on leash training a few days and she's got it down now, so worked on chickens today.   She responded appropriately to corrections and we've been bonding a good bit as I go about my chores.  

The Anatolian breed is just a bit too independent for my liking, but we have them now and I need to learn how to work around that.   This pup is smart about many things, but oh, so very stupid about anything that goes against her bullheadedness.   But then, here I am trying to force her past all of that and it not working~ equally stupid and bullheaded on my end~ so today I changed directions.  The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results each time.  

Still learning how to train and work with this breed.   I'm really liking Blue's temperament and intelligence so far, but Charlie's personality is going to need a bit of tweaking....she's much more dominant.  

The water wagon is working well thus far.  Will get pics when I get it all outfitted with various totes~dog food, minerals, tools, etc.  Gives me peace of mind that the water is more fresh and plentiful now, for dog and sheep alike.


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## Baymule

Hahaha I am smiling about your saying that Anatolians being so independent. I am learning the same lessons. Sentry has been easier to train than what I’m finding with Sheba. Stubborn doesn’t even begin to describe her personality. You and I, and our pups are traveling the same road.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Hahaha I am smiling about your saying that Anatolians being so independent. I am learning the same lessons. Sentry has been easier to train than what I’m finding with Sheba. Stubborn doesn’t even begin to describe her personality. You and I, and our pups are traveling the same road.



Could it be...dare I say it?...because they are female???


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## Baymule

Beekissed said:


> Could it be...dare I say it?...because they are female???


Absolutely. Sheba already rules. Paris hates her. Paris hates all female dogs and carries a death wish for them. She tolerates male dogs rather well, but not females. I guess they are not called B!tch for nothing.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Absolutely. Sheba already rules. Paris hates her. Paris hates all female dogs and carries a death wish for them. She tolerates male dogs rather well, but not females. I guess they are not called B!tch for nothing.


My female Akbash, Lucy, hated all strange dogs...was very dog aggressive, especially in her older age.  Never saw her come up against any other females, but I'm betting it wouldn't have been pretty.  

My son brought out his dog, in heat mind you, and Blue was VERY interested, but Charlie, this little 3 mo. pup dominated this 3 yr old female St. Bernard mix dog.   She stood over her and growled...I had to correct her.   After I corrected her on that she sat and sulked for a few minutes and then  she moved to Blue and was grabbing him by his underparts~yes, the tenderest bits~ and trying to pull him away from this other female.   She tried every leg hold she knew on Blue....it was like she was pulling her husband away from an attractive female.   It was hilarious but at the same time it gave me some insight as to how dominant this pup wants to be.


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## Baymule

Oh that is funny! I am laughing at the visual image! Hahaha!


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## Beekissed

As promised...a few pics of the water wagon.  It's working out great, with all animals partaking of the water and minerals ad lib.  Please ignore the dates on the pics...changed the batteries in the camera and it defaulted to that date.  






That water trough isn't dirty, it's an old goat feeder someone gave me and it's stained with feed...can't wash that stuff off!  




We had this cooler and never use it, so put it to good use.   Also had old garden hoses in our farm junk storage to utilize.  




Left the flap up on the mineral feeder for a few days until they got used to finding the minerals there, then put the flap down and they are now nudging the flap up to access it.  





Blue dog...my $50 Anatolian.  He's working out great and I really like his personality.  He's very sweet, submissive with the sheep but takes charge when he needs to.  





The dogs meet their first turtle..and were petrified of it.  





Blue, 1 yr and Charlie, 3 mo.  Both looking rangy because they are growing like weeds.


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## Mike CHS

I love the flap on the mineral feeder.  I have gone to a lot of trouble making covers on gates that work but your idea is so much simpler.


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## Baymule

That's some wagon set up you got there! You always amaze me with the things you come up with. I like the flap over the minerals too.

Blue and Charlie are quite the pair. My pup is looking rangy too, so don't feel alone. Rangy or not, they look pretty to me.


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## farmerjan

Good idea on the mineral feeder flap.  We have a couple of "bull mineral feeders" that are round with that type of flap.  doesn't take them long to learn to push it up with their noses to get the mineral and it doesn't get full of water in a rain.  The bull ones are very heavy to keep the bulls from pushing them around so much, but they work great for the cattle .  The waterer set up is nice.


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## farmerjan

Is there a float under the plywood on the end of the water trough?


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## thistlebloom

That wagon is genius. I know sheep are much more well behaved than goats, so I'm guessing they aren't tempted into jumping up and all over it?


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## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> That wagon is genius. I know sheep are much more well behaved than goats, so I'm guessing they aren't tempted into jumping up and all over it?



Nah...it's full of dog food tote, mineral bucket, spare stakes and polybraid reels.   That's one reason why I love sheep....not near as much of a headache as goats.  

I love the wagon!   I can fill that cooler and the water stays fresh for days....I lose the most water when I move the whole thing over this uneven terrain, but that's usually only every other day.   It's so very nice to move one thing instead of having to dump buckets, rinse them out, refill, then move the minerals, fasten the whole thing to a tree so they can't dump them, etc.   Also nice to have the dog food and pans on the same cart so I'm not carrying dog food to the paddock each morning.   

Soon I'm going to attach a continuous feeder type thing to the wagon so the dogs can eat their food without the sheep trying to get it.   The mouth of the feeders will extend under the wagon too far for the sheep to reach but not too far for a dog to do so.  It will likely be PVC pipe and designed to hold at least 2 day's worth of food.   That's about how long each paddock stay has been thus far.  

If that doesn't work I'm going to build a skid cage for the dogs so they can eat in peace.  I'll attach it to the wagon for moves.  It will have a jump gate for entering and eating.


----------



## Beekissed

A few pics this morning of the flock and guardians.  A beautiful Sunday morning in June!  I thank God for it and the animals seem to be doing the same.  

May and her ram lamb, Dingleberry, 2 mo. old today.





Rose and one of her twins, Moe, also 2 mo. old today.  Charlie, 3 mo. 





Shine's ram lamb, Noodles, will be 2 mo. old on the 15th.  





And Blue, my sweet, soft guy, 13 mo. old.


----------



## Baymule

Beautiful lambs. I am so happy for you, I just can't say it enough.


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## Beekissed

Very hot and humid again today.   Finally got a 2 ltr bottle of frozen water into the cooler on the water wagon....I want to see how long that ice chest will keep it frozen in this kind of weather.  Should make for some nice, cool water being dispensed into that trough.   

Am loving this water wagon!!!  Clean, cool water on demand.  We are going to outfit another ice chest/cooler for the wagon and use the other free goat feeder/trough to double our water supply.  Will move the mineral feeder and use the other side of the wagon.


----------



## Beekissed

Finally got A paddock fenced!!!!  Now we can wait to do the back of the land later on in the year and move on to other big projects like building onto the wood shed to have more wood storage and a set of sorting pens and a loading chute for the sheep.   Also need to roll out several bales of hay onto logging roads and landing sites.  

After that I'm revamping our utility trailer into a stock trailer/wood trailer so it can more easily load and haul sheep from a variety of locations.  One place we buy stock from has a loading dock on the barn, so we want to devise doors into the trailer that will work with that, while other places require a small ramp for loading.   The current ramp onto that trailer is much too big, wide and heavy for use on a stock trailer.  

Then we'll be cleaning up tree tops from the logging that was done.


----------



## Baymule

Always work to be done on the farm!! I don’t think I’ll ever catch up!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Always work to be done on the farm!! I don’t think I’ll ever catch up!



Me neither, but I'm having a good time trying!   I know people hear me say that and they think I've got a screw loose, but I like to work...it's not a dirty word to me like it has become to most of the world.   This is work I love to do, so when I have it to do, I'm as happy as pigs in mud.


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## thistlebloom

I totally get that! Sure wish I had summers free to be here and knock out a lot of projects that just aren't doable in the winter. But I am grateful for the job I have and the ability to still do it. The list never shrinks does it?


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## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> I totally get that! Sure wish I had summers free to be here and knock out a lot of projects that just aren't doable in the winter. But I am grateful for the job I have and the ability to still do it. The list never shrinks does it?



It's funny, but it doesn't!   When I worked full time, it seems I never had this much to do at home, though I worked on the homestead every weekend and days off.   Now that I'm not working at all, I'm working harder than I ever did, just to try and keep my head above water.  

I keep thinking, "When will I get this place well maintained, all things stored neatly, and functioning properly?" and it's almost like running in water.   A lot of effort but not really going anyplace real fast....but it's kind of fun ticking projects off the list and gives me a good feeling, so it's all good!


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## Beekissed

A few pics showing how well these hair sheep eat brush. When most folks mention getting animals to eat brush, they always mention goats but I don't think they realize there are other good options.

This tree line is ordinarily a solid wall of greenery, from top to bottom. After the sheep are in that paddock, you can see the difference in a big way. All that's left clinging to the stems and branches are tiny leaves.














A few pics of the flock grazing in a temp paddock next to a neighbor's field. What's amazing is the shoulder height (to a sheep) grass behind that single line of hot wire and that no sheep dare cross it to get to that field.







One of the twins, will be 3 mo. old in July. Time flies!







And Blue, the faithful sheep dog. We give him large bones for each paddock so that when he gets there he'll have something to do while he's just lying around watching sheep.


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## Mike CHS

I built all of my fences inside the treeline at the property line but when I trim the property line brush, it all gets thrown in with the sheep and they clean it up.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> I built all of my fences inside the treeline at the property line but when I trim the property line brush, it all gets thrown in with the sheep and they clean it up.



They eat so fast, don't they?  Like lightning!


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## Beekissed

Heading out early tomorrow for a 4 hr trip to see/buy some more sheep.  Should come home with 6 new additions, 1 ram lamb and 5 ewe lambs.   Hope to get some longer torsos, a straight back line, wide and deep bodies and, hopefully a little color into the flock with these additions.   Could be we'll have some lambs we can smile about next year.   This year there is only a few that I'd offer up for breeding ram lambs, one in particular.


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## Baymule

Yay! More sheep! You KNOW we want pictures!


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## Mike CHS

Good luck on getting what you want.


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## Beekissed

We didn't get what we wanted.   The lady had departed from Katahdins and was breeding up on Texels!   Well, we didn't know that and she didn't tell us, so we had committed to buying 6 sheep from her already.  We drove the almost 4 hr trip, found out that she had very few Katahdin lambs in her flock and those she was keeping.   She's 76 and she was very confused about all the breeding ins and outs and had really run down that flock in just one year!   But, she's sweet and we had committed and a few of the Texels had great conformation...and Eli saw meat instead of breed, so was eager to go ahead and buy them.   I didn't have a chance to pull him to one side and talk it over.   Plus, her lambs were born the same month as mine but were smaller than mine...all the while receiving grain supplements and out of Texel genetics.  

So, we now have one Katahdin ewe lamb(mine) and Eli has 5 Texel/Katahdin or possibly all Texel(not sure how much Kat or if any, as her records were a mess!) lambs, one ram and four ewes.     I think she could tell I was none too thrilled with the situation and so she took $100 off the total price of Eli's sheep and took $25 off the price of mine, which I thought was very sweet.  

So, we'll play with my Katahdin ram lamb and his Texel/Texel/Katahdin ewes and his Texel over my Kat ewes this year, just to see what the crossing looks like but it's likely most of them will be sold off the land.  They DO have meaty and well balanced bodies, nice and neat little Katahdin looking heads(not a bit like a Texel), but they are all white....not a smatch of color in any of them.  

I do NOT want to have to shear but here I am with Dorper and Texel crosses in the flock....how did this happen????  All I wanted was Katahdins, period.   So, I have my small flock of mostly Katahdin ewes(only 3 are pure Kat and 2 are mixes) and my 2 Kat ram lambs, while Eli has an all Texel or Texel/Katahdin cross group.  

Still it was a nice day, we visited for 2 hrs with those nice ladies and was on a mountain top farm with a spectacular view, sun on our faces and we drove home with some healthy, chunky butt lambs for a decent price, so I thank God for it all.   He has a plan and it HAS to be better than any plan I make, so I'm just going with the flow.   What happened was supposed to happen.  

So, did we get what we wanted?  Nope.   But I'm sure we got exactly what we needed!


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## Baymule

I read this with a smile on my face. You sure have a knack for finding the obscure "deal" and running with it. Ok, so now you have Texels. Here you go off on another adventure and will see where it leads you.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I read this with a smile on my face. You sure have a knack for finding the obscure "deal" and running with it. Ok, so now you have Texels. Here you go off on another adventure and will see where it leads you.


 Hopefully nowhere towards raising wool breeds, that's for sure!  My intent is still Katahdins, so hopefully this is just a little detour until we can build enough pure Katahdin into our flock so we can cull out the Texel sheep.  Since we aren't going towards registered stock, I'll be happy if we can keep ewe lambs that are at least 3/4 Katahdin and only if they shed out.   If not, we'll keep breeding out the Texel genes until we reach full Katahdin/shed out capabilities once again.  

But, there's just something about these Texel ewes that's kind of cute....they have a pleasing symmetry of shape that catches the eye, so I'm not sorry we have them on board at the moment.   That may change, according to what happens down the line, but for now they are kind of cute.   They are also one of the wool breeds that is supposed to do well on grass based systems, so that's a plus.


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## Beekissed

@Baymule, a few pics of the lambs and the farm they came from...didn't get some really good broad side pics so you could see their conformation but will try to do that tomorrow.  












These lambs are the same age as most of mine, born in mid April.  You can see a little bit of Katahdin influence in the heads/faces of most of them, but the bodies are pretty much Texel.  









The one on the rt. in this pic is pure Katahdin(my pick out of her flock) but the others are Kat/Texel cross(all of Eli's lambs from this trip).  




....and my dead dog, Blue.   Just kiddin'....  



In this pic, our lambs are in the forefront and you can see they are larger, though the new lambs were being creep fed grain.


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## Baymule

That is a pretty farm, rolling hills and GRASS! Those lambs look good, got some nice butts on them LOL.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> That is a pretty farm, rolling hills and GRASS! Those lambs look good, got some nice butts on them LOL.



This farm is huge at 600 acres and they have several barns, silos, grain elevators, several tractors and various haying equipment, houses, etc.    They have very little stock on this farm and all that grass you see is just cut for hay.  It looks good from a distance, but there's very little diversity in the grass nor is it all that lush.   In other words, it's screaming for some managed intensive grazing as the only people working this farm is a 76 yr old grandma, a 54 yr old mom and a 16 yr old boy.  It's a mountain farm, with high elevation, spectacular views and fresh air aplenty, with no close neighbors.  

You can imagine how much Eli and I have to damper down the coveting as we drive away from that place.     You know the routine...."what I couldn't DO with a place like that!!!!!"


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## Baymule

Beekissed said:


> You can imagine how much Eli and I have to damper down the coveting as we drive away from that place.     You know the routine...."what I couldn't DO with a place like that!!!!!"



I sure do. When we bought our first sheep, we followed directions to the ranch. As we came around a bend in the road, there was a magazine picture worthy beautiful ranch. White pipe fence, green lush pastures, a winding lake with 2 brick homes on the shores, black Angus cattle, it was gorgeous. Slack jawed, we could only admire....... thinking about our raw land, barely fenced with no amenities, I told BJ, "Those sheep are going to be so pissed off when they get to our place."


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I sure do. When we bought our first sheep, we followed directions to the ranch. As we came around a bend in the road, there was a magazine picture worthy beautiful ranch. White pipe fence, green lush pastures, a winding lake with 2 brick homes on the shores, black Angus cattle, it was gorgeous. Slack jawed, we could only admire....... thinking about our raw land, barely fenced with no amenities, I told BJ, "Those sheep are going to be so pissed off when they get to our place."



 That's probably what these lambs felt like too....no views, no lovely breezes and big 360* skies to look at, no huge fields and nice old barns.  

These lambs have been quite enterprising...taken off their moms on the day we bought them, they have found a way to get their milk anyway.   Some have taken to stealing milk from our ewes and doing it quite successfully, I might add.    

One has injured a leg from getting wrapped up in Charlie's tether...nothing serious but definitely will be sore for awhile.   So, no more tethering for Charlie, which means she's roaming at will out of the high tensile.   We tried a drag~chain and front lawn mower tire~to no avail.   She comes under the fencing anyway.   No amount of me returning her to the fence, scolding or anything else has stopped this behavior...she's just a hard headed, stubborn dog....at 4 mo. of age.  Imagine how hard she will be to control when she's older.  

So, this evening Eli(my son) caught her coming out of the fencing and punished her for it.   She thinks the sun rises and sets in Eli and that was the very first time I've seen her voluntarily go right back into the fencing.  I've punished her for it and she just lays down and acts all sorry, but no stopping of the behavior and no returning to her rightful place.   We were quite pleased to see her correct her behavior in this way and I'm hoping that will continue....guess I just haven't been hard enough on her, though I'm a more strict disciplinarian than most.  

We are in a drought with high temps and low humidity right now and for the foreseeable future, so are trying to manage what little food we have in these paddocks to the greatest effect.  Right now we are seeing a lot of good forage in the brush paddocks, plus they have more shade while eating and also seem less bothered by the flies while working the brush.   The brush is less affected by the drought, so we are using it more and giving the grass a good rest.  

Will be building our sorting pens soon and it can't happen too soon for me....I really need to castrate some sheep and apply ram aprons to others.  Also want to put collars on all that are staying for the winter, with their ID numbers/name tags also.  We are separating the ewes into two color groups, red and blue, with their chosen rams with the designated color for each group.   This year, with numbers so small, we can get by with running the rams in with the ewes, aprons applied, but next season we'll have to establish a whole separate grazing pod of rams and ram lambs in this system.  

This next season, Lord willing, we'll be breeding the Texel/Kat ram over the Kat ewes, the Kat ram over the Texel/Kat ewe lambs and a single Kat ram lamb over a Kat ewe lamb, just to give that spare ram a breeding opportunity.   Should be fun seeing what pops out come spring!


----------



## Baymule

Charlie listens to Eli, maybe she will straighten up. She is just one of those who knows, but chooses to try you. It will click and all come together, don’t give up. The really smart ones can be a special challenge, but they are so worth it. Hang in there.


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## Beekissed

Sold Charlie on Sunday and am feeling really good about that.  She went to her new owner immediately and acted like I never existed, so I do believe she's with who she was meant to be with.   She'll be working with horses, goats and chickens.   

The sheep are doing well, even in this drought.  Still have one that's needing a repeat worming, but the other two that had worms have recovered well and are putting some wt. back on.   Two of the wormers will be butchered, the other sold when he gets back in good condition.  

The other lambs are all sleek and growing well.  The one Texel cross ewe lamb that got hurt in Charlies tether is still limping from that injury...not much we can do for her.  It's not broken, but likely tore some tendons/ligaments.  

Our ram lambs are now 4 mo. old and little July is now 3 mo.   June was sold for being a total jerk and escaping the fencing, so July was weaned at 2.5 mo. of age...she didn't miss a beat and is growing fat on browse and graze, no grain needed.  

Little July...she waddles when she walks.  Has more back than front right now.  






Noodles...he is the tallest and longest of the ram lambs and acts the most rammy.  If I had to guess his wt he's likely at 75-80 lbs.  





Tank, born a week prior to Noodles, we estimate at over 100 lbs.  He's short, wide and deep and has balls so big they look like a full udder.  





Both of those rams are still nursing on their mothers but soon we will wean them off to let the girls recover before breeding season.  None of these three required worm treatments nor did any of their mothers, FAMACHA scores are high.


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## Baymule

That is awesome Bee! Beautiful lambs. That's good about Charlie, I know you want what is best for her. You will find that just right dog to be a partner for Blue and fit in on your farm.


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## Beekissed

Found this commercial hilarious!


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## Beekissed

A few pics of the ram lambs~now 4 mo.~in their new suits.  We made ram aprons out of breeding harnesses...the harnesses are a tad big on them but they'll grow into them eventually.  They'll only have to wear the aprons a month, then they'll be separated out from the flock and won't need them again until next season, perhaps.  

Also some pics of other sheep, doing what sheep do, and sheep dogs~shepherd and sheep herder(potentially).   Blue and Dooley look like they are kin!  









Tank, below, seems to have plenty to work with....looks like a full udder!  





Ewe lambs...Texel/Katahdin cross.  




















Dooley, learning "down" at the gate.


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## Beekissed

Continued.....

Shine, loving on the sunflowers....







Shine's boy, Noodles....


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## Baymule

You have a great crop of lambs. Dooley and Blue look to be good buddies, enjoying each other. Dooley is a wonderful addition to your farm and you are doing a great job with him. 

I like your ram aprons, you don’t have to split up the flock. I’m not cutting ram lambs in the next crop of lambs. Because of the stupid crazy slaughter houses being booked a year or more out, we are going to take the next batch of lambs to auction. I got lucky this year, I had a slaughter date, set before everything got Covid crazy. I sold live lambs for $200, took them to slaughter and the buyers picked up the meat, paying the slaughter fee. I’m not that lucky now, LOL so off to auction they will go.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> You have a great crop of lambs. Dooley and Blue look to be good buddies, enjoying each other. Dooley is a wonderful addition to your farm and you are doing a great job with him.
> 
> I like your ram aprons, you don’t have to split up the flock. I’m not cutting ram lambs in the next crop of lambs. Because of the stupid crazy slaughter houses being booked a year or more out, we are going to take the next batch of lambs to auction. I got lucky this year, I had a slaughter date, set before everything got Covid crazy. I sold live lambs for $200, took them to slaughter and the buyers picked up the meat, paying the slaughter fee. I’m not that lucky now, LOL so off to auction they will go.



Bay, I doubt I'd get that kind of price around here for lambs....most folks here have never even tasted sheep!  But, oh, that I could!!!  Do you just advertise your lambs for sale/slaughter to get those customers or is it word of mouth?


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## Baymule

Mostly word of mouth-mine! LOL I did post lamb on a local FB sale site, by the pound and got several responses. 2 of them later bought live lambs. A neighbor and her sister each bought live lambs and our son bought one too. Then we took the scrubby ones to auction and sold them at a better price than I thought they would bring.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Mostly word of mouth-mine! LOL I did post lamb on a local FB sale site, by the pound and got several responses. 2 of them later bought live lambs. A neighbor and her sister each bought live lambs and our son bought one too. Then we took the scrubby ones to auction and sold them at a better price than I thought they would bring.



In light of the difficulty getting things butchered on time, I doubt I can do that at this late date.  I think one of my brothers wants to buy one and butcher it out here, but the other lambs will be sold as ram lambs in October to folks who didn't get their ram lambs on time for breeding season this year, hopefully.


----------



## Baymule

I won't have a slaughter date for next year, so will take them to auction.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I won't have a slaughter date for next year, so will take them to auction.



I have a feeling that, by next year, there will be a customer base wanting them for home butchering or for starting their own flock.


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## Baymule

Beekissed said:


> I have a feeling that, by next year, there will be a customer base wanting them for home butchering or for starting their own flock.


I've thought about that too. I may advertise some for sale, but if there is no flurry of sales, auction!


----------



## Beekissed

The burdizzo worked like a charm and the two wethers we castrated show testicles that are steadily shrinking and no ill effects from the procedure.  All in all it seemed pretty painless and they walked away from it like nothing happened.  

Selling a fence jumper, May, and one of Rose's twins, a wether now, to a lady who wants them for eating of brush.   Hate to sell May as she's our best sheep as far as conditioning, conformation, etc. but she's just too much trouble and she's teaching it to the younger sheep.  

Had an answer to prayer about winter feeding and how to do it here without any winter stockpile hopes...we may be getting a lease on a neighboring field, just to keep it mowed down!   I don't know how many acres it is, but possibly 10 and right now it's 3-4 ft tall and only gets brush hogged once a year, but it has a lot of good grasses, legumes and forbes in it.  No fencing as it hasn't been grazed by any animals but deer for about 20 years now and the last animals were a few horses.  

So, winter stockpile prayers answered and I praise His Holy name for it!!!  That will take the pressure off our meager grass and give us a chance to clean up all the tree tops out of the paddocks here this winter.  

Once all the wethers have been butchered and all the rams sold or butchered, we'll be down to just 10 sheep to winter over, so a field that size could feasibly last us most of the winter with small paddocks and 4 day moves.  

We don't know whether to brush hog it on a high setting now so that the cool weather grasses can get some sun before winter or just start grazing it as is and do a clean up brush hogging in the early spring when we move the sheep closer to home for lambing.


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## Baymule

What a blessing! 10 acres of grass, I would positively swoon at the bounty of so much grass! I think I would graze it as is, then mow to knock down what the sheep wont eat in early spring.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> What a blessing! 10 acres of grass, I would positively swoon at the bounty of so much grass! I think I would graze it as is, then mow to knock down what the sheep wont eat in early spring.



That's  my inclination too.  I'm going to take the ATV and run up into that field and assess just how much canopy I'm dealing with overall and what's lying beneath that, if the sheep can reasonably reach it, etc.   If not, I'll try to get it brush hogged on a very high setting to clear out some of the canopy.  

I'll get pics of it today and let you see what it's like!


----------



## Beekissed

It's the time of year when things have to be sorted, separated, and sold.  We are still building and fencing, so haven't had time to get ready for it, but are stopping to throw together a sorting pen situation.  

Going to butcher a nuisance ewe this weekend....hate to do it, but she's a consistent fence jumper and a leader of the young into the same behavior.  We also need the meat, so it's a win/win, though she is a great sheep in all other aspects....it's a shame she's so stubbornly stupid.  

Making decisions on what rams to keep, what rams to sell.   I have one solid candidate that has stood out from early on and has maintained that quality while growing, but have to make a decision on a second ram between two also rans.   

Right now I have the three older ewes in the garden doing clean up, while the younger flock are grazing outside the garden space.   Plan to separate the males completely on Oct. 1st and move the females at the farthest distance on the land we can get.   Individual breeding groups and their respective ram will rejoin Oct. 31st for breeding.   Once in a blue moon.....

Will be selling 3 ram lambs and retaining two wethers for butchering later, one of which will be sold to a family member for butchering and the other will be for our own consumption.  

All sheep except the eldest are in good body condition.  Poor Rose has had her two wethers and 2 other ewe lambs nipping in for drinks all summer long, so this 8 yr old ewe has been nursing 4 lambs for the past 2 mo.  Not bad for an oldster, but she needs a break so she can get some fat on her before winter.  Not sure how we can wean all those off her when all the females will be pasturing together and with our limited resources for penning and separating long enough for a proper weaning.  The wethers I can get off her but the ewe lambs will still be pestering her and she will still let them.   

And so sheeping continues.  I'm excited about having some sheep in pens so I can do some training on Dooley while they are there.


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## Beekissed

These Katahdin amaze me....was watching them today and noticing just how fat they are all.   They've been in a brush paddock for several days, no grass to speak of and came out fatter than they went in.   Seems like this breed can stay fat on the worst kind of feed.   We have the most poor of pasture here, even the grass paddocks have bad grass...more trash than anything else and not much of that since we've had drought since July.  

Hopefully making a deal with a neighbor for grazing an approx. 10 acre field just to help them keep it mowed down and to supplement our pasture....if we get that land, I can't imagine how well they will do this winter.  That field has good browse on all the edges, along with better graze than we have and hasn't had livestock on it for nigh on 20 yrs or more.  We'll have to build fence around it and haul water to it but it will be worth it to have that field for winter stockpile.   Will need to get another dog to help our single LGD in that big of a paddock that's farther from our house, but it will be worth it.   Will be trying to get a lease worked up tomorrow and hope to get it signed and notarized this week, if all goes well.


----------



## Beekissed

Used the three older gals to clean up the garden...took one night to strip most of it...that trellis in the background was a solid sheet of green just hours before this pic, with knee high weeds and flowers in behind it.  






Poor 8 yr old Rose, on the right, is finally getting a break from all the lambs still nursing on her...I count 4 different lambs nipping in for a sip, two of hers and two from a group we bought a few months ago.   The ewe on the left is the nuisance ewe that we will butcher tonight...it's a shame because she's young, a good producer and has great parasite resistance as well as feed thrift.  Just too stupid to live in our setup.  



Shine, 4 yrs old now, still nursing her big ol' 5 mo. old ram lamb, is also getting a break.  She's our highest climber and keeps our honeysuckle well pruned.  




Blue, our Anatolian, on guard and looking sweet....









Can you locate the wolf in sheep's clothing?  






Noodles, 5 mo. and our choice to retain as a breeder this season, currently wearing a ram apron.  He's top ram of the bunch and the most dominant and virile acting.  He's Shine's boy, so will she will not be in his breeding group.  He ain't pretty, but I like his length, his top line, his width of chest and his height, not to mention he's all ram, big jewels and can't wait to use them.  





Not a great pic, but this black ram is one of two rams we are trying to decide on for our second breeder.  He's second in dominance in the group and competing directly with Noodles all the time, though they are both in ram aprons to prevent breeding at the moment.   He's full Katahdin and not related to any of our group.  




Tank, on the right below, the second contender for second breeder, is May's boy(May, dead sheep walking), is 1/4 Dorper, is also showing good parasite resistance along with Noodles and the Black.  Tank has no interest in the females, just in eating.  Haven't seen him once checking for heat or pawing at a female.  He's thick and chunky, has a great set of jewels, a tad shorter than the black but seems to have the same length of loin.  He has the biggest balls of all the rams but the least sex drive...could be a late bloomer.  





All sheep are paddocked in the yard and garden right now to clean up flowers, vines and garden....they are quick and efficient.


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## Baymule

Poor Rose! She is a good ewe and mom, maybe you could put a bra on her? LOL
You have some very good looking sheep, they are showing your care and dedication. Those are real nice ram lambs, picking between the two is going to be a hard choice!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Poor Rose! She is a good ewe and mom, maybe you could put a bra on her? LOL
> You have some very good looking sheep, they are showing your care and dedication. Those are real nice ram lambs, picking between the two is going to be a hard choice!



We think so much alike!    That's EXACTLY what I was thinking...how can I make this girl an anti nursing garment?  They have those anti nursing nose rings for lambs but I'd have to ring the whole flock to make sure she would get some rest.  Seems like just when I've identified which lambs are stealing milk, it's not the one I saw doing it before.  

May turned out to be one lean sheep under all that bulk...no excess fat around the organs or under the hide...no excess of fat anywhere.   Sure fooled  me!   She's lean and the meat is so tender it tears.  A good carcass and meat yield.  Aliza and Ella(6 and 4 yrs) watched the kill and butchering, came in and told their Mom they loved ALL of it.  They also helped dispose of the offal and such.  When Aliza saw how big May's guts were, she said, "That's going to be one flat sheep when those come out!"   She's a hoot!  

We decided not to shoot her but did the throat stick instead....that went well and it was an easy, quick kill and bleed out.  SOOOOO glad to have that sheep out of the flock!   She gave me one last insult by grazing my wrist in her death kicking, left quite a bruise and hurt pretty bad.  That's just how spiteful that ol' hag was!


----------



## Baymule

What is the throat stick? We haven't butchered our own lambs. I'm just coming around to it. I sure can be tough and hard, but those lambs........just can't do it. I'm starting to think I could. LOL So far, paying the slaughter house to do it has been ok with me. Plenty of meat in the freezer and a confirmed slaughter date for the steer. Dunno how all the slaughter packing places are gonna play out, not even trying to set slaughter dates for any lambs, planning to take them to the auction.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Beekissed said:


> We decided not to shoot her but did the throat stick instead


You didn't stun her first?  Must not have been too quick if she got her revenge...


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> What is the throat stick? We haven't butchered our own lambs. I'm just coming around to it. I sure can be tough and hard, but those lambs........just can't do it. I'm starting to think I could. LOL So far, paying the slaughter house to do it has been ok with me. Plenty of meat in the freezer and a confirmed slaughter date for the steer. Dunno how all the slaughter packing places are gonna play out, not even trying to set slaughter dates for any lambs, planning to take them to the auction.



We just laid her down, I held her legs and Eli bent her head back, with his knee behind her head to keep her throat taut and exposed and then he just stuck the knife tip where the blood vessels lie in the throat and cut outward.  Immediate blood spray outwards and she didn't even move or fight until the blood volume got so low that her fight or flight reflex kicked in(just a nerve impulse by that time, she was pretty much dead/dying) and then I let her legs go so she could kick and thereby bleed out better.  It was over pretty quickly...about as quick as killing a chicken in the same manner.


----------



## Baymule

I think I'd have to use a 22.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> I think I'd have to use a 22.



If a sheep's head is as thick as a goat's head - you might want to use something a little more powerful.


----------



## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> If a sheep's head is as thick as a goat's head - you might want to use something a little more powerful.


what do you use? or rather, what does your husband use?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

DH informs me that he has used a 22 rifle with LR shells on smallish pigs.  Goats we have used a 38 or a 44.    He does most, but I've done it also.  Neither of us enjoy it, but we do it respect and reverence, thanking God for the animal and thanking the animal for it's life.


----------



## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> DH informs me that he has used a 22 rifle with LR shells on smallish pigs.  Goats we have used a 38 or a 44.    He does most, but I've done it also.  Neither of us enjoy it, *but we do it respect and reverence, thanking God for the animal and thanking the animal for it's life.*


That's what I'm talking about!


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I think I'd have to use a 22.



I had originally planned to do that but decided we'd get a better bleed out if we cut the throat.  Pretty much like when we shoot a deer with a bow, the deer gets a good bleed out prior to death.   Worked out good for the little girls too, as there was no loud noise...just a quiet, efficient kill with a sheep bleeding into the garden soil.  

Bay, we found a replacement for Charlie this evening...I hope.  A male Anatolian, a little over 1 yr old, well socialized and good with kids and other dogs, though not good with chickens(I'll be seeing if he can be trained on that).  His price was the kicker, plus he's in our state, which rarely has pure Anatolians to buy....$100 for him.  

He's not worked with sheep, just horses and cattle, so there will be a tethering period, a training period and a trial period.  I hope and pray he works out and makes a good companion and partner for Blue.  They are the same age and sounds like they have the same temperament as well, so we'll see how it goes.  It's all a gamble really, so now we roll the dice again on a dog named Sarge.  

He's got a sturdier build than does Blue and looks to be a healthy, strong animal.  I'll be going to look at him this weekend.  I've been praying about a dog to help Blue and this seems to be the dog God put in my path, so I'm now thanking God for this dog and praying for guidance in his training.


----------



## Baymule

Bee, Sarge is a handsome dog. I hope everything works out well with him. I know if there is a way, you will train him and train him right. I am excited for you, the Good Lord has answered your prayers. 

I can see why you would quietly cut the throat, it is probably less traumatic for the animal. I'd have a hard time even shooting my lambs. LOL I've been raising them long enough now that I feel like I can put my "awww cute" feelings aside and get it done. Kinda like when I raised rabbits for show and meat. With 50-60 breeding does, I got over the cute factor real fast. LOL


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Bee, Sarge is a handsome dog. I hope everything works out well with him. I know if there is a way, you will train him and train him right. I am excited for you, the Good Lord has answered your prayers.
> 
> I can see why you would quietly cut the throat, it is probably less traumatic for the animal. I'd have a hard time even shooting my lambs. LOL I've been raising them long enough now that I feel like I can put my "awww cute" feelings aside and get it done. Kinda like when I raised rabbits for show and meat. With 50-60 breeding does, I got over the cute factor real fast. LOL



Trust me, I really, really wanted to just shoot this one in the head so very many times, even right up to the day before the kill she pushed past me~she was so strong she could just move me to one side easily~and out of the garden gate before I could stop her.   Lucky for me she's such a hog, as I got her right back in with the lure of feed, but I so wanted to shoot her, club her or any other violent way to get her dead.  

Then I started thinking...if the .22 didn't penetrate the skull right, I'd have to use a hollow point mag.  If that blew out the other side it would create a lot of really messy gore and possibly ruin some neck meat...not what I wanted the girls to see.  If it failed to do a quick and quiet kill, I didn't want that sticking in their minds.   

As it was, we faced the cutting end away from the girls, so they got to see poop coming out of the butt and it distracted them from the blood spraying.  All they really saw was a sheep lying calmly while we worked around her neck, then she lying quietly while the blood came out, then some leg kicking when the autonomic nervous system indicated low blood volume and triggered the fight or flight response.   That didn't last long either and I allowed the legs to kick to encourage more bleed out.   The girls are used to seeing chickens do the same behavior....calmly receive the throat cut and bleed for a bit, then some kicking right prior to death...so it was more natural for them.  

All very quiet and it felt better for her to die while we held her in our hands....I couldn't stand that sheep but I truly didn't want her to suffer a bad death.


----------



## Kusanar

Hi all, I don't have sheep, but I have read this entire thread over the past few days and have been enjoying learning. I'm thinking about getting some Jacobs sheep at some point (next few years) for the wool primarily but also to help eat out some of the non grass "weeds" in my field that the horses don't touch. Anyone know if they eat Yellow Crownbeard? my fields are 4 feet high and bright yellow right now...


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## Beekissed

@Baymule ....more pics of Sarge!


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## Baymule

Sarge looks awesome. He just might be the answer to your prayers. He has that wise look in his face. 

@Kusanar what is yellow crownbeard?


----------



## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> Sarge looks awesome. He just might be the answer to your prayers. He has that wise look in his face.
> 
> @Kusanar what is yellow crownbeard?


----------



## Kusanar

Kusanar said:


> View attachment 77705


I have also heard it called "stickweed" because the stalks get woody when it gets tall like this, then in the fall, all of the leaves drop off and leave woody brown sticks standing all over the place. When it is young the stems are soft and it has decent sized leaves, if they will eat it, it should have a decent amount of nutrition when it's young and they can eat the whole thing.


----------



## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> I have also heard it called "stickweed" because the stalks get woody when it gets tall like this, then in the fall, all of the leaves drop off and leave woody brown sticks standing all over the place. When it is young the stems are soft and it has decent sized leaves, if they will eat it, it should have a decent amount of nutrition when it's young and they can eat the whole thing.


From what I've read, no livestock will touch it.   Best to just keep it mowed down as often as possible so it can't survive.


----------



## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> From what I've read, no livestock will touch it.   Best to just keep it mowed down as often as possible so it can't survive.


Right now I'm leaving it alone, the honeybees are loving it. I figure they can get one last easy meal before winter.


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## Baymule

Glad I don't have them here! I have enough big ugly weeds! LOL


----------



## Finnie

My favorite weed is goldenrod. I let it grow along my whole backyard fence to provide hiding spots for the chickens. I would cut it down, and let the chickens hide somewhere else, but I absolutely love the golden yellow flowers this time of year. They look like a fireworks display all around my yard.


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## Baymule

Goldenrod grows here too. It’s like natures last blooming fling before winter.


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## Beekissed

Finnie said:


> My favorite weed is goldenrod. I let it grow along my whole backyard fence to provide hiding spots for the chickens. I would cut it down, and let the chickens hide somewhere else, but I absolutely love the golden yellow flowers this time of year. They look like a fireworks display all around my yard. View attachment 77801



Not to mentions it's great for the pollinators, as well as lovely.  I love goldenrod honey!


----------



## Beekissed

Got rams in their own paddock where they can't see, hear or small the ewes and it all went very well.  There's been no crying for mamas or babies in this move and all seem pretty calm.  I was glad to get the ram aprons off the males as they had started to rub behind their shoulders....I doubt I'll ever use ram aprons again, just too much hassle and they were impossible to keep in place, to keep intact and to do any good at all.   I'll be incredibly surprised if we don't have ewes pregnant much earlier than we had liked.  

All our fault for not having separated them much earlier, but we are swamped with work here and all the other things life throws at you.  

Hope to advertise three of the rams and get them sold...if not we'll hold them over until the better prices in January and take them to the annual Jan. 1st ram and goat sale here locally.  

Getting those rams gone will help my breeder rams get some more tucker and conditioning in preparation for breeding on Oct. 31st.   

I'm impressed with the rams we chose, both of which did  not come down with worms this season...one ram we were contemplating is showing a case of worms right now, so it's good we didn't choose him.  He'll be wormed and sold.  Trying to keep and breed all that don't get worms, treat and sell all those that do and keep doing that until we develop a flock that doesn't require deworming.  Others have done so and I'd like to join them.  This being our first year, I expected having to cull quite a few sheep over that issue.  

Can't wait until every sheep is bred and all can run in one flock once again.   Going this evening to get a lease signed on that big field we are going to use for winter stockpile...we'll build fence there in Nov.  I have a month or two to get the new dog trained to our land, the sheep and the stock moves and then he and Blue will be working that big field, which is a good distance from the house.  Going after the new dog tomorrow...can't wait!  He's a beautiful, big and serious looking Anatolian.


----------



## Baymule

Your sheep are turning into a business for you. Small, yes, but it gives your family meat and sales helps with expenses. I am so happy for you. Can't wait to see pictures of your new dog!


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Your sheep are turning into a business for you. Small, yes, but it gives your family meat and sales helps with expenses. I am so happy for you. Can't wait to see pictures of your new dog!



I can't wait to get him!  He just has one of those faces you want to love on.  

Got the lease signed and the field scheduled for brushhogging!   Things are happening!   Bay, our goal is to sell enough lambs each season to pay for the taxes on the land and eventually, when the flock is bigger, to also pay for any other things we need to do such as fence repairs, little home improvement jobs, auto repair, etc.  

I sure hope that one can still sell sheep and get a good price in the coming years...this world is changing quickly.  Could be all we are creating here is a food on the hoof, stock piled for our family's needs, which is okay too.


----------



## Baymule

Bee, when I was still in my old house, mere blocks from downtown and a 4 lane highway that went through town a block away and a tire store across the street from us, I was dreaming of escaping. Small livestock figured strongly in my plans of becoming more self sufficient. Creating that food on the hoof was forefront in my planning. Being able to sell the lambs helps to pay for expenses. I am so delighted for you that you are now able to achieve your dreams. I remember when you were in a rent house with your first sheep and your sadness when you had to give them up. But those first sheep kindled a longing in you that never went away, a dream that grew, and look at you now. Your dreams are coming true and you are living the life that you dreamed about for so long. Dreams do come true, not bestowed on us by some imaginary fairy with a magic wand, but by working towards that dream, getting in the trenches, getting dirty, celebrating the success and suffering the loss, but most of all, NEVER GIVING UP.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Bee, when I was still in my old house, mere blocks from downtown and a 4 lane highway that went through town a block away and a tire store across the street from us, I was dreaming of escaping. Small livestock figured strongly in my plans of becoming more self sufficient. Creating that food on the hoof was forefront in my planning. Being able to sell the lambs helps to pay for expenses. I am so delighted for you that you are now able to achieve your dreams. I remember when you were in a rent house with your first sheep and your sadness when you had to give them up. But those first sheep kindled a longing in you that never went away, a dream that grew, and look at you now. Your dreams are coming true and you are living the life that you dreamed about for so long. Dreams do come true, not bestowed on us by some imaginary fairy with a magic wand, but by working towards that dream, getting in the trenches, getting dirty, celebrating the success and suffering the loss, but most of all, NEVER GIVING UP.



It's funny how we both wanted sheep, both wanted to have that food on the hoof.   For me it was food that was bigger than chickens but still small enough I could butcher it on my own.   I think that portable, easy to transport and easy to home butcher food is going to become a hot commodity soon in this world...could be a powerful bartering item.  Your hogs too.  

Got the DOG today...and, yes, that's how I think of him in my mind after today.   

Short answer to how did it go with getting the dog today?  They lied.  About everything.  I bought him anyway because we really need another dog, but the jury is out as to whether he will work out for us.   He's ginormous, untamed, untrained, un- everything.   He's over a year old and just got his first collar, has never been on a leash or tie out, never been taught anything at all, freaked out in the car all the way home, smearing poop, pee, dog hair and slobbers from one end to the other(that was before we even got a mile down the road,  mind you), even though he was tied in the back....that's just how big he is.   His head can be tied but the rest of his body able to trash the car.   He didn't relax for the 3 hrs it took to come home and hyperventilated the whole time, alternating between thrashing around or standing and panting....this will give you an idea how big this dog is~every time he thrashed the whole car would rock and I'd have to hold it on the road, felt like a strong wind trying to blow the car off the road.   Then, when he stopped and panted, the whole car would go up and down.  I'm pumping gas, leaning against the car and the car was moving up and down each time he breathed.   Yeah...he's massive.   I'd say he weighs over 200lb.  He eats about 4 times more than Blue.  

He doesn't recognize his name at all, doesn't know any commands, has been allowed to put paws, teeth and his body on anyone and everyone, but he doesn't seem to have any real meanness or bad temper in him.   He's just a very large, bratty child.  Seems like a big, lovable lump but his size and lack of any previous training will still make it hard to teach him anything.  

The Lord blessed me with good weather, a pretty drive, and no movement of that kidney stone that's hung up in there, so I'm worn clean out and I have a dog shaped horse in the front yard on a tie out, and I'm thanking God for being home.  I hope and pray we can train him to at least leave the livestock alone and stay in the fences, come when called and stay off of humans.   Those people got him for a pet, so he knows absolutely nothing about anything and was allowed to run the neighborhood.  

Since he doesn't even come to nor recognize his name, we'll give him a new one.  We've decided to give him an ironic name~Audie Murphy.   We'll likely call him Murphy for short.


----------



## Kusanar

I pet sat for some people that had a St. Bernard that when I showed up the first time to meet everyone jumped up and put her paws on my shoulders as soon as they opened the front door. By the time they came back home from their vacation she was MUCH better behaved, but I will never understand why people let big animals act like that.


----------



## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> I pet sat for some people that had a St. Bernard that when I showed up the first time to meet everyone jumped up and put her paws on my shoulders as soon as they opened the front door. By the time they came back home from their vacation she was MUCH better behaved, but I will never understand why people let big animals act like that.



Or small animals, even.  It's just rude to allow your dogs to put their paws all over folks, no matter the size.  People think because a dog is little that it's okay to let it jump up, but it's just as rude...those claws are sharp and old people have thin skin that tears like tissue paper.


----------



## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> Or small animals, even.  It's just rude to allow your dogs to put their paws all over folks, no matter the size.  People think because a dog is little that it's okay to let it jump up, but it's just as rude...those claws are sharp and old people have thin skin that tears like tissue paper.


True. My small (13 pound) dog always wants to jump up but he won't if I tell him not too. But he is so small he has to stand up on your leg for you to reach down and rub him, so he is allowed to sometimes (when invited not on his own). 

The big animals get super dangerous when they do stuff like that though.


----------



## Baymule

Oh BEE!! It might not be nice, but I have to tell you that I laughed all the way through reading that! No training, no manners, big dummy dufus! Peed, pooped and slobbered all over your car! I'm sorry, but that is just too darn funny! hahaha! Oh my! A horse in a dog suit!   

On the flip side, poor dog. It is not his fault, but he is the one that has to suffer the consequences. I'll say this, he's got the best home and now he at least has a shot at a better life. If you hadn't gotten him, he probably would have wound up in a shelter and who would want a big, no manners dog like that? NOBODY and it would have been lights out for him. God bless you for buying him anyway. I'll pray for you AND Murphy's Law. Audie Murphy indeed, he's more like Murphy's Law. Guffaw, Laugh, haha, whoo-boy! You are on a ride now!


----------



## Baymule

I just read that to to BJ, we both hee-hawed all the way through your adventure. I have tears in my eyes! Sorry, just can't stop laughing!


----------



## Baymule

I've laughed so hard, my nose is running......where's the kleenax?


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I've laughed so hard, my nose is running......where's the kleenax?



Bay, you tickle me pink!!!! Now that it's over, I can laugh about it too....while it was happening I kept thinking, "WHAT have you just DONE?????"   I called Eli on the way home and told him I had a pony in the back of the car and poop was flying everywhere and I thought maybe I had made a huge mistake.....and he calmed me down a good bit, told me he would help me train this one.  Said we had two large black bear on the land right now and we needed a pony/dog right now, so it could turn out okay.  

Funny thing was, as soon as that dog got out of the car he acted like a normal dog...calm as can be, hasn't let out a whine nor a bark, just laying out there like he really needed a nap after driving with that crazy woman who trapped him inside that misery buggy.    

Bay, I hope you peed yer pants!!!!


----------



## Baymule

Both of us almost did!


----------



## thistlebloom

Maybe he's a diamond in the rough Bee. I know a gal that lives on a couple thousand acre cattle ranch in the middle of nowhere. It's hours to a vet. Their LGD's won't get into a vehicle so they trailer them in the big stock trailer. 
I hope he turns into the best dog ever for you. And I hope you are able to get your car smelling like a regular car again also. 🤣


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Maybe he's a diamond in the rough Bee. I know a gal that lives on a couple thousand acre cattle ranch in the middle of nowhere. It's hours to a vet. Their LGD's won't get into a vehicle so they trailer them in the big stock trailer.
> I hope he turns into the best dog ever for you. And I hope you are able to get your car smelling like a regular car again also. 🤣



I already told Eli that I will NEVER haul one of these dogs in the car again.   Nowadays, folks will report you for hauling a dog in the back of your pickup, so the stock trailer it's going to have to be.   I don't have a dog cage big enough for THIS size of a dog...I'm sure they make them but I'm not buying one.


----------



## Baymule

You mean that you don’t like Puppy de Poopy Phew Perfume??


----------



## Kusanar

Make removable side walls for the back of the truck and either tie them down inside the walls or put a cattle panel lid on it. Then no one will know there is a dog in the back of the truck. Out of sight, out of mind.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> You mean that you don’t like Puppy de Poopy Phew Perfume??


Mom and I spent the entire morning scrubbing my car with strong Pine-Sol, sweeping out the tons of hair that clung to every crevice and surface, removed every object in the car and scrubbed that, removed all the carseat covers and washed those.   It was a total overhaul...every window was smeared with dog juice, every surface had slobbers or green poop smears.  It took a few hours with both of us working to even get it down to smelling like Ode d' Dog Lite with a whiff of pine.  

Stopped and got a new car smell bomb this evening~will use that tomorrow as prescribed~ and the strongest air freshener money could buy.  

Well, that takes care of the fall detailing of the car, I guess.    We'll go into winter smelling like new car, dog poop and pine~not necessarily in that order.  Lovely.  

Worked with Murphy today on the leash, on "sit" and on waiting politely for his food until I tell him he can have it.   He did very well, though he wants to eat Dooley...can't say I blame him, if I were a dog I'd want to bite Dooley's jittery butt off too.   Just too much jitter to stand.  

He doesn't seem to have any meanness in him and he's been patient with all this new training, though he tends to want to crowd my space and use his body on me, which I will not allow....he'll get it, though.   He's already learning Murphy is something he should pay attention to....if he wants a treat and good head scrubs.   

Got him the heaviest cable tie out today money can buy for a dog and put him on Ben's old run line so he can sleep in Ben's comfy insulated dog house and memory foam bed tonight, out of the rain and cold front coming in.   He has slept most of the day...all these changes are hard on a dog.  Chickens all around him and drinking out of his water today and he didn't even look at them.  We'll see how he goes along.  

This dog originated from a working farm and reputable breeder of Anatolians, so could be he'll have good instincts that will kick in once we get him acclimated to the sheep.   I hope and pray this is so.


----------



## Baymule

I love Murphy already. I think he's going to be the best dog ever.


----------



## Baymule

ACV is also a good deodorizer. After you air out the car and get all the smell out that you can, wet a rag with ACV, roll up the windows and park in the sun for the day. Then air out the car again.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I love Murphy already. I think he's going to be the best dog ever.



He just may be!  He chewed through his tie out the first night here and slept on the back porch all night.   Could have ate every chicken and sheep on the place or ran off home during that time but he camped out on the back porch and never made a peep.   Had a little set to with Dooley that morning but didn't kill him, so I put that down to his calm demeanor(outside of a moving car, that is).  

He barked a few times in the night, just a few notes and nothing more.  I can't imagine that dog needing to say much at all to get things to leave the premises....he's every bit as big as the male black bear that is traipsing over the back of our land.   The female looks like she'd out weigh him but he's almost as tall as she is.  

Could be he'll work out to be one of the best LGDs we've had in these recent years, though no dog could ever be as good as my Lucy, the Akbash, was.   She was in a class of her own.   If he stays in the fences and doesn't bite the sheep, chickens or humans, moves when we move the flock and doesn't kill the other dogs, I'll be pretty satisfied with him.


----------



## Beekissed

Murphy met Blue, tried to eat Blue and has also tried to snap Dooley again....he's got a tad bit of dog aggression~got corrections for being TOO aggressive and instructed on the true pecking order here~I rule, all dogs file in under that leadership.  He'll either relearn that behavior when it comes to members of our pack, fit into this pack as a beta, or he will be gone.   There's always a bit of a pecking order scuffle and I allow those....under supervision.   He just needs to learn these dogs are under my protection, as is he, so he doesn't need to be so aggressive towards them.   

We'll see if he can learn that.   Training continues.


----------



## Beekissed

Murphy met some sheep, got up and barked at them, which was another teaching moment wherein he was backed down by me, told these were MY sheep.   Then I watched...the sheep came back to investigate, Murphy lay still and watched, then the sheep left and Dog got good head scrubs and told "Good boy!"  

He's learning.   Love these teaching moments.  We tethered him in the ram paddock and I just happen to be working in there today, so teaching moments were bound to occur.   We'll keep repeating this tethering, slow introductions and then he'll be allowed to be tethered there unsupervised at night.   We'll transition from that to Ecollar and off the tether to see how he does, so on and so forth.   

He's been his own boss and the boss of his humans for over a year now and a big dog doesn't let that go easily, I imagine.   It's been confusing for him but he's trying to adapt.


----------



## Baymule

He's been floundering around for a year with no direction. these dogs are smart and want to work. I think you got a winner.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> He's been floundering around for a year with no direction. these dogs are smart and want to work. I think you got a winner.



So far I'm pretty pleased with his response to our intervening in this doggy life, Bay.  He's big enough to tear us up if he wanted but he's taken it all with dignity but also with a humble spirit.   I don't know if I can convince him not to beat up on Blue and Dooley but he doesn't seem human aggressive at all, so that bodes well.


----------



## Baymule

Dog pack dynamics. They will figure it out. Blue is pretty laid back and I think he will relinquish his pack leader position to Murphy. It won’t happen all at once, but with your direction it will go easier than them fighting it out. 

Where are pictures????


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Dog pack dynamics. They will figure it out. Blue is pretty laid back and I think he will relinquish his pack leader position to Murphy. It won’t happen all at once, but with your direction it will go easier than them fighting it out.
> 
> Where are pictures????



Will try to get some tomorrow....we are flat out busy here this week, trying to finish up projects and getting ready for an annual family cookout.   Will be putting the roofing on the shed build tomorrow...I'll try to get a pic of the monster from the roof, should give some perspective on his sheer size.   Eli is 5'10 and this dog comes up to his waist line, so he's officially the largest dog we've had here by a few inches...we had a GP briefly(got shot by the neighbors the 3rd day I had him) that was almost as big.  

Blue is not the pack leader and he knows it, so there's nothing to give up on his part....but I think he's afraid of getting his hip injured.  Blue has never jockeyed for a top position and he's just not that kind of dog...I don't think he would be even if he were not vulnerable, but he also isn't the kind of dog to roll over and get his butt whipped all the time.   Ben attacked him a few times and Blue gave as good as he got but was never the aggressor, but didn't submit either.  

Sort of like  my old dog Jake....he was perfectly happy to be a beta but he NEVER got whipped by a bigger, more aggressive dog.   Jake put every dog down, even those that outweighed him by 100 lbs or more.   Then when they partnered up, he let that dog lead out and in play he submitted willingly and often.   Just never let himself be bullied and I sense that same attitude in Blue.  He doesn't want to be the leader but he sure as beans doesn't want to be a punching bag either.  

They'll work it out on their own eventually, but I need to get this dog in the mindset that he doesn't have to establish leadership over MY pack as I'm already leading.  So, I back him down and defend the other dogs if I feel he's being too aggressive...and he is.   He doesn't even wait for the traditional sniffing of each other or anything but goes directly to attacking, even that little 4 mo. pup, Dooley, that's approx. the size of this dog's crap pile.  Literally....we got to see the size of it yesterday and Eli asked, "Where was he keeping ALL that POOP????"  I told him that's only half of it, the other half was in the car on the trip down!  

So, this morning he and Dooley will be walked together by me and they will walk as a pack~up til now it's been Eli walking one dog, me the other.  Later I'll do a pack walk with Blue and Murphy, after we've had a few more supervised meetings.  I'll keep working at this for as long as it takes to get him to realize that all the dogs answer to me here and he needs to get with the program.   I don't know if I can accomplish that with this dog but I'm sure going to try.  I just want to get him to the place where he isn't using his size and aggression to establish his place here...I don't think he knows how to be any other way yet.  

Only took him one day to get the feeding ritual, so that's pretty impressive.  He doesn't lie down for it yet, but we'll get there.  He sits politely now and waits instead of rushing in or following me around, trying to reach the food pan I'm holding.  I think he's got brains and a good temperament, which is a good start.


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## Baymule

This dog is going to hit the list of BEST DOG EVER. I just got that feeling......


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> This dog is going to hit the list of BEST DOG EVER. I just got that feeling......



I hope you are right, Bay.   He got what seems to be his first brushing ever this morning and hair flew!  He was scared of it at first but then seemed to like it...but still wanted to bite the brush afterwards.  We'll do that every day until his coat is lined out...it's healthy enough but he's blowing way too much hair this late in the season for a dog this young.  Usually my dogs would have wrestled all that off each other by now, so his lack of a dog to play with is likely why he's still blowing a coat.  I hope Blue and he get to the point in their partnership wherein they have settled the pecking order and can then play with one another.  

He's so beautiful!   He's still not sure why humans are trying to control his life but he's being patient about it.


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## thistlebloom

Beekissed said:


> Eli asked, "Where was he keeping ALL that POOP????" I told him that's only half of it, the other half was in the car on the trip down!



That made me laugh! I had a trip like that in the cab of a truck one time with a cat, and I was imagining you with something 30x bigger. An unforgettable experience for sure, and you only need one per lifetime.  🤣

Take this for what it's worth from a non LGD person, but I have to agree with Bay about Murphy's potential. That is such an intelligent face, it just needs time to ripen.


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## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> the size of this dog's crap pile. Literally....we got to see the size of it yesterday and Eli asked, "Where was he keeping ALL that POOP????"


I ask my 13 pound rat dog that all the time... his poops are half his size... and he does so many of them!


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## Kusanar

Hey Bee, I am thinking about getting sheep (mentioned that already) and am thinking about using them in my pastures with my horses in 2 ways, penning them into problem areas to have them strip the growth back so the grass can come back, and having them just free to graze with the horses when not locked into a certain area. When I have them penned up into a smaller area, how big of an area is big enough? Thinking 2-3 ewes and maybe a ram in the area. I know that I will have to play by ear how soon to move them and learn how fast MY sheep strip an area of MY field, but just trying to think of a ballpark size I could start with and go from there. I'm thinking of using a portable electric fence with step in posts to contain them and thinking about how big of a system I would need.


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## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> Hey Bee, I am thinking about getting sheep (mentioned that already) and am thinking about using them in my pastures with my horses in 2 ways, penning them into problem areas to have them strip the growth back so the grass can come back, and having them just free to graze with the horses when not locked into a certain area. When I have them penned up into a smaller area, how big of an area is big enough? Thinking 2-3 ewes and maybe a ram in the area. I know that I will have to play by ear how soon to move them and learn how fast MY sheep strip an area of MY field, but just trying to think of a ballpark size I could start with and go from there. I'm thinking of using a portable electric fence with step in posts to contain them and thinking about how big of a system I would need.



That's so very hard to say, as I don't know the amount of grass you have on that area, but I always tell folks to err on the side of caution and go bigger on area.... or stock less.   Sheep eat so much faster than other livestock....truly!   Their mouths move like they are on speed and if you watch closely, not all of that grass actually goes in the throat...their tongues are constantly sorting the good from the bad as they mow along, so you'll see grass coming out the sides of their mouths as they graze.   I couldn't believe it the first time I noticed that...I figured, if they are biting it off, they are consuming it, but they aren't.   They are specialists...but the grass is still getting clipped all the same.  

I had 3 sheep and a lamb on an acre of good grass and in a drought year, it was barely enough to keep them going all summer, so keep in mind that the area you leave needs anywhere from ~according to how much rain you are getting~30-60 days recovery time or you will soon eat it too short and have slower recovery, worse species will get a better foothold and you'll experience more parasite issues(don't let the grass get below 3 in. in any one area of the pasture for the best results).  

Bay grazes her sheep alongside horses and could give you a better idea how those two share grazing.  She does quite a bit of work to plant more sustainable species, to mulch and seed to keep ahead of grazing needs, etc.


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## Beekissed

Murphy got off his tether today and was on the Ecollar...explored the paddock, getting tiny signals when he was getting too close to the electric fence.   Ignored the sheep for awhile and, just when my attention was elsewhere, he started to chase the sheep.  Eli yelled but I knew a dog that doesn't even know his own name won't respond to a yell, so I gave him a level 4 shock...no notice.  Turned it up to 7 and held 'er down.   

School is HARD!  He yelped all the way back to his tethering place in the paddock, looking back at those sheep like they were evil beasts from the 7th circle of Hades and he's been pouting in just that place ever since.   Blue yelped along with him in sympathy, from the other paddock.   Funny!  

He tried to play with Dooley today, in the first behavior I've seen that shows he knows how to be a real dog...seeing that huge dog trying to play with that little pup was comical and Dooley wasn't playing along.  He ran and put his back to a fence, waiting for what the giant dog would do next.   I think they will eventually become a pack..it's only day 2 and he's learning so much.   Today he laid down to wait for his food....and he wouldn't come anywhere near it until I stepped completely away, even when I said he could.  He's learning and being cautious.  Very polite compared to what he was like at his old home.


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## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> That's so very hard to say, as I don't know the amount of grass you have on that area, but I always tell folks to err on the side of caution and go bigger on area.... or stock less.   Sheep eat so much faster than other livestock....truly!   Their mouths move like they are on speed and if you watch closely, not all of that grass actually goes in the throat...their tongues are constantly sorting the good from the bad as they mow along, so you'll see grass coming out the sides of their mouths as they graze.   I couldn't believe it the first time I noticed that...I figured, if they are biting it off, they are consuming it, but they aren't.   They are specialists...but the grass is still getting clipped all the same.
> 
> I had 3 sheep and a lamb on an acre of good grass and in a drought year, it was barely enough to keep them going all summer, so keep in mind that the area you leave needs anywhere from ~according to how much rain you are getting~30-60 days recovery time or you will soon eat it too short and have slower recovery, worse species will get a better foothold and you'll experience more parasite issues(don't let the grass get below 3 in. in any one area of the pasture for the best results).
> 
> Bay grazes her sheep alongside horses and could give you a better idea how those two share grazing.  She does quite a bit of work to plant more sustainable species, to mulch and seed to keep ahead of grazing needs, etc.


Thanks, I have 3 horses (2 and a mini) on about 10 acres of grass, they don't come close to keeping up for most of the spring and summer. I would say a good 2/3 is weeds and unused by the end of the year because they pick their favorite spots and eat those and ignore everything else... In my area, you should have 2 acres per horse, so that's 6 acres taken up, so 4 available that could be used by sheep. We are still working on fencing and opening up more area.

Just for reference, this spring we cut hay IN the field with the horses, just cutting the tall standing grass that they hadn't touched and got nearly enough hay from in the field from 1 cutting to feed all winter.


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## Beekissed

@Baymule , as promised...pics of the new horse.  I'm very proud of him today and very pleased at how  much he's changed and learned in just two day's time.  He learned how to interact with Dooley like a real dog should, he learned about chasing sheep and he's learning we expect certain behaviors from him.  And guess what?  He's already learned his new name!   I was on top of the shed roof today and he was lying flat out asleep and I said, "Murphy!" He raised his head to look at me and wagged his tail....then rolled over on his back to show his belly. 

He's not a bit like the dog I met at his previous home...as soon as people got out of their cars he had his paws wrapped around their legs, his teeth on their hands and arms and pushed his body up against theirs.   He has done none of that here except the body bumps and no more of that since I indicated it was not desired.

Isn't he a magnificent animal???  I'm starting to think you are right....this could be a really great dog in the making.  We just need to get to know one another and trust each other for it to really feel right.














My son, Eli, who is 5'11" and over 300 lbs.  Shows you just how big this puppy is.  In these pics

he's learning to sit with hand signals.

















A gorgeous day to work on the shed roof, to work with a new dog and just to be alive!!!  I thank God for it all!!!


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## Baymule

Murphy is fabulous. What a gorgeous dog. This dog is going to worm his way into your heart and take over the very cells of your entire body, in the truest form  of a partnership and cause you to fall head over heel in love and respect for him. Sign me up for Murphy's Fan Club!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Murphy is fabulous. What a gorgeous dog. This dog is going to worm his way into your heart and take over the very cells of your entire body, in the truest form  of a partnership and cause you to fall head over heel in love and respect for him. Sign me up for Murphy's Fan Club!



Oh, Bay, you amuse me!  My cells are not easily taken over, so I wouldn't go that far, but he's definitely showing me good things.   Eli said yesterday, "So...you are starting to like this dog?" and I told him, "Well, I don't DISLIKE him anymore, so that's a start."     

If I'd had my pistol with me on the drive home, I'd likely to have popped him one in the head and left him for dead on a lonely back road.  So, I think being able to see his good progress and attributes as a good step forward.     He's not dead, so that's all good.


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## Baymule

So you are admitting he has a chance? You can put up your grumpy front, I know you like that dog. Haha But I won’t say anything, it’s our little secret. Shhhhh.........


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> So you are admitting he has a chance? You can put up your grumpy front, I know you like that dog. Haha But I won’t say anything, it’s our little secret. Shhhhh.........



Yeah...he's got a good chance.    He's doing GREAT.  Today he explored the electric fence and slipped under the 10 in. bottom wire as if it didn't exist and ran gleefully up the driveway, like a kid getting one over on their parents.  At least he came back.   That fence was on but he didn't get zapped...gauged the pulses and made his escape.  

Can't wait to get our Sport Dog fence installed around the property.....   

He's been very patient, has been very calm and good with everything we've been making him do.  I just MAY start liking the big lug.


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## Beekissed

A few days ago we supervised a fight for pack order between Murphy and Blue and this time Blue instigated it first.  I guess he found out that being friendly to this dog isn't working, time to bring the hurt.   We had a long rope on Murphy in case true fighting started, but though it was intense a couple of times, no true fighting for injury happened....just establishing each other's strengths, how much they were willing to give one another towards dominance, etc.  We pulled Murphy back a few times when he was getting too intense but it turned out to not be necessary.

I was concerned all the while that the activity would strain Blue's hip and I thought he would be a little stiff and sore the day after, but no injury occurred during the fight...to Blue, that is.

Now, Blue had just finished a long and intense play session with Dooley and was resting in the shade, while Murphy has been on the run line for the past few days, storing up energy...likely not the best time to have done it, but I had man power on hand and it needed done.   We brought Murphy down to the gate and Blue was growling before he even got there....in other words, he was through playing Mister Nice Dog.   Two other occasions I had let them meet and Blue was willing but Murphy was in attack mode right from the start...no history of dog socialization skills in that dog's life, apparently.

In the fight we started to see a little blood on Blue's fur but couldn't see a wound, so we let him finish what he started....and he did.  I was so proud  of him I could have burst buttons off my shirt if I had had any on it!  The blood?  It was Murphy's....a small slice in the skin of one of his front legs, so every time he was trying to get on top of Blue, a little blood was being wiped on him.    The sound was ferocious, the action was fast....and Blue was a fast, strong fighter.    Murphy depended on his weight, his height, and sound, while Blue fought like a wolf, low and fast, biting quickly and holding on for dear life, slipping out from under Murphy time and again to gain the upper position.

We tried to pull Murphy out of the fight to give Blue a rest, but Blue didn't want it and followed Murphy when we pulled him back, so we let it continue....he kept fighting until Murphy was done with it all.   They stood face to face, panting from it all, facing one another for the first time with no fight in their eyes or their body language...at least, Murphy had none...Blue was still in feral mode with hair up all along his spine and clear down his tail, with his eye on his opponent and waiting for the next round.   Murphy was clearly done with it all.  They were both blowing like a race horse and Murphy was trembling from all the effort, but Blue was not.

Murphy found out that Blue is ready to be a pack member~even a partner~ but he's nobody's punching bag.   He also found out that superior size isn't going to win him anything much against a faster, meaner opponent.  Nobody got seriously hurt and I think the next time it won't get that bad, might not even get bad at all....could be they'll be ready to play fight instead. 

Blue is my underdog hero!   It was incredible to watch him fight....he's like a feral thing, with teeth exposed and ears back, while Murphy fights like most dogs do. 

Side note:  Neither dog was stiff or sore the next day and the small cut on Murphy's leg is so shallow as to be inconsequential.  I'm hoping to supervise a meeting with them again this weekend when I have Eli to hold the rope and help me see that neither dog gets injured too badly.  I'm hoping there will be no fighting this time, but just regular social interaction of actually sniffing one another and posturing.


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## Baymule

This is awesome! You are right, this had to be done and under supervision so that neither dog got hurt. I’m proud of Blue too, what a great dog. Give him a hug from me. Murphy tried to bully his way through and found out that being big and a bad attitude just doesn’t cut it—not with Blue! Both dogs are fortunate to have you as pack leader, you know and understand their social order. These aren’t lap dogs and require a strong leader, they have it in you.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> This is awesome! You are right, this had to be done and under supervision so that neither dog got hurt. I’m proud of Blue too, what a great dog. Give him a hug from me. Murphy tried to bully his way through and found out that being big and a bad attitude just doesn’t cut it—not with Blue! Both dogs are fortunate to have you as pack leader, you know and understand their social order. These aren’t lap dogs and require a strong leader, they have it in you.



I think only someone like you, Bay, would think this is awesome.    Most people would be horrified that I supervised a fight between my own dogs or let them fight at all.  But you likely are like me....you understand there is a pack order and it has to be established in order for them to work as a pack.  I'd rather that order be worked out in front of me and under my direct supervision, than later on when I can't help a dog that is possibly getting the worst of it.  

Murphy just hasn't had much dog interaction, I think, as he seems to have missed the part where you sniff a dog before you start fighting with it....with both Dooley and Blue, his first reaction to them was to try and bite them...didn't even growl first, just lunged forward with  mouth open.  Not healthy social skills in a dog, especially one that has  nothing its guarding or protecting from other dogs.  

After I got onto him about attacking Dooley, I supervised a visit between the two and only then did Murphy do the sniff greeting and now they play together and Murphy even lets Dooley eat out of his food dish without snapping his head off.   

After the fight with Blue, Murphy is showing me much more respect...not sure why that is.  Could be he thought he was pack leader until Blue took him down a notch?   Not sure, but I'm liking it.


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## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> After the fight with Blue, Murphy is showing me much more respect...not sure why that is.  Could be he thought he was pack leader until Blue took him down a notch?   Not sure, but I'm liking it.


He probably knew you were above Blue but thought you were below him, now that he knows he is equal to or below Blue, he now knows you are above him because you are above Blue. 

Trying to figure out ranking is interesting sometimes.


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## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> He probably knew you were above Blue but thought you were below him, now that he knows he is equal to or below Blue, he now knows you are above him because you are above Blue.
> 
> Trying to figure out ranking is interesting sometimes.



It is indeed.  Even the roosters on the land seek to find the ranking when it comes to the human....I spend a little time as they grow to show them they are low on the totem pole around here.  

Soon I'll be training Dooley(my herding pup), using the ram lambs and wethers and they too will get a sense that the human outranks them, as do the dogs.  That should be good for later, when my breeder rams are much larger and harder to handle.  Right now the ram lambs see me as food bringer, so the bucket love tends to make them more familiar than I deem is safe for later interactions.  I don't encourage them getting in my space, but when they are all pushing and shoving one another, I do get bumped at times by a thick, muscular rear end.


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## Baymule

I’ve worked out herd order with my horses, nothing like  1,000 pound animals working out herd leadership. One thing I have ALWAYS established is that I am the LEAD MARE. I don’t bite or kick and I’m 10 times smaller, but I get the message across. 

Dogs are trickier. They are so much our equals and predators like we are. LGDs are even harder to establish the Alpha Dog over the pack. Yes, you had to let Blue and Murphy fight for their place in the pack. Murphy has no inkling or glimmer of subjection to any dog or human. He got a darn good lesson and he needed to get taken down a couple of notches. By controlling it, you showed him that you are the ultimate boss. That fight was allowed by you and ended by you, the Pack Leader. Well done.


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## Beekissed

Pics of sheep, temp pens and the field next door we'll be leasing(for free!) and fencing in this winter.  

This field is around 10-12 acres in total and is a long rectangle in shape.  










The ewes and ewe lambs in a small field adjacent to this bigger field...you can see the gate into our land in the background.  This small field is owned by an absentee owner that says we are welcome to graze it as often as we like, so we do...normally we mow it with the mower but now we mow it with sheep.





Got some of the gate posts stained and bracings painted....









Males in a temp pen that will soon become part of our sorting pens, alley and loading chute(you can see the posts in the background that will be part of our guillotine gates) ...right now it's a holding pen for males to be sold, males that will breed and males that will be eaten.


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## Baymule

You are so blessed with all that pasture.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> You are so blessed with all that pasture.



I think so too....it was definitely a God thing how that all came about.  He has blessed us richly in all things and especially in this farming venture.


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## thistlebloom

Everything looks so good!


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## Beekissed

So, have been working hard on sheepin', as per usual.  Soon we'll take a break to get in firewood, then back to building fence for a bit, then back to firewood, wash, rinse, repeat all winter long. 

The noisy boyz are currently in the garden but will be joining their ladies on Oct. 31st...well...two of them will.  The rest will remain penned for a bit while I train Dooley....hopefully we'll be selling two rams and that will leave the two wethers for training purposes.  Can't wait to have one flock again for awhile. 

Hope to get the sheep out of the garden in time to lightly cultivate in there and sow some winter wheat and clover as a cover crop and grazing for later. 

Got 8 round bales hauled and dropped into various paddock spaces, rolled up onto pallets and tarped for later use.   I staggered them across the big field, trying to put them in areas out of the wind for winter feeding.   It was white knuckle driving, getting 5 of those 1000 lb bales on a load, especially since the load started to lean to one side.  Prayed all the way home (about 35 mi.) and God got us and the hay home safely.   Second trip wasn't as bad.   Unloading those bales with just the Ol' Bat to help was kind of dicey too, but she's more help than you'd believe, even at 86 yrs old.   No tractor here, so it's all done by hand. 

I don't like the looks of cattle panel around the sorting area, so will be taking them down this winter and replacing them with the large skid pallets we got for free a couple years back.   Been using them a lot around here and really like the looks of them, plus they are really sturdy.  Still haven't built the sorting alley...can't wait to get that finished! 

Sheep all look good and are going into the winter fat enough....well...except for Rose.  Got that one ewe lamb that's not even hers that's still pestering her and trying to nurse. 

Hope to get the LGDs in for neutering soon, hoping that will remove the rivalry and tension between the two.  Blue wants to be friends but Murphy isn't having it, so Blue feels compelled to bring him what he wants.  I'm tired of it already, so both will lose their lower brains so maybe they can start thinking with the upper ones.  If that doesn't work, Murphy will have to go....Blue's the better stock dog and a good dog all around, while Murphy is a wild card and I don't know yet if he can learn to be around stock safely.


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## thistlebloom

Glad those bales all stayed put while you were driving! Must be tough rolling them around, especially uphill.
Give the Ol' Bat a hug from her Idaho fan club.


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## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Glad those bales all stayed put while you were driving! Must be tough rolling them around, especially uphill.
> Give the Ol' Bat a hug from her Idaho fan club.



We've rolled them up hill and it's always a little scary, especially for me and Mom....we could flattened by them easily, even if they aren't rolling fast.  We try to unload them on the level or sideways on a slope as much as possible but even then sometimes life takes over.   I felt such a gladness that we were able to unload the trailer of all of them without injury to ourselves or anything else.


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## thistlebloom

Getting rolled over by a bale is not to be taken lightly (which I know you don't.) If you know SmilesJR on Teg, he was seriously injured when a bale knocked him down and rolled over him.

I wonder if there is some way to pound an axle of some sort through the center, then pull it with your quad. Or at least hold it steady while it's manually rolled...
I've never had round bales so I'm just thinking aloud. I could be full of hot air too.


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## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Getting rolled over by a bale is not to be taken lightly (which I know you don't.) If you SmilesJR on Teg, he was seriously injured when a bale knocked him down and rolled over him.
> 
> I wonder if there is some way to pound an axle of some sort through the center, then pull it with your quad. Or at least hold it steady while it's manually rolled...
> I've never had round bales so I'm just thinking aloud. I could be full of hot air too.



We'll be building a bale roller this winter that will be able to hook into a bale, lift it with a winch and move it here and there, but mostly roll it out on the land where we want them most.


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## Beekissed

Breeding rams in the teaser pen and girls are in the paddock all around them...they will be joined as one flock on Oct. 31st.   As soon as they were installed there, away from the other rams and wethers, they started knocking heads.  They know what's coming.  

Sold one ram lamb earlier on but got a guy coming Friday to look over the remaining two and possibly buy one.  May sell one to my brother for butchering as he intends to pay whatever I'd ask for them to others, so that's all good.  

The wethers will be food for us....one will be butchered this season, while the smallest one will be held over as company to the ram(s) and more training opportunities for Dooley.  We'll need more mouths on the grass this spring to keep ahead of that grass in the big field.


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## Baymule

Sales are good! Congrats!


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## thistlebloom

Having to keep ahead of the grass is a good thing too!


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## Beekissed

I'm feeling all kinds of blessed to be getting that big field to graze from now on, but especially this winter when we need to clear the tree tops out of our other paddocks and roll out bales for seeding the land.  

I'm also feeling blessed that the sheep all survived and all are going into the winter in good health and condition.  Feels good to see them out there all fat on graze and browse, even when what we have is very crappy right now.   That's the beauty of Katahdin sheep...they seem to get and stay fat on nothing at all.


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## Baymule

Beekissed said:


> That's the beauty of Katahdin sheep...they seem to get and stay fat on nothing at all.



Uhhhh....... nope. I have that nothing at all and I can vouch for they don't get fat on sucking air!        Believe it or not, they don't do well eating sand either! I know! Hard to believe!


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## Beekissed

Just found a pretty neat thing on FB for the sheep enterprise.  There's a larger producer in my state of Katahdin sheep and he wants to do a fall and spring lamb pool for smaller producers like me so we can all get better prices on our lambs than we can at the local auction barns.   Several people are interested and I'm interested on two levels.    I can more easily sell my lambs and for a better price than I can get at my local place and I can also meet more Katahdin producers in the state, thus possibly buying into better blood lines when we change out rams or want to add more ewes.  

I may still hold out some of the better ram lambs for selling off the land or providing locals with grass fed lamb for butcher, but this would help us tremendously to streamline our farm income while networking with other Katahdin growers in the state.   

Just need to work on my stock trailer to build a good looking topper for it and painting it with our farm colors and sign so we have a real farm identity when we go to these lamb pools.  Who knows?  Pretty soon that little 4x8 may be too small to accommodate our lamb production!


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## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> Just found a pretty neat thing on FB for the sheep enterprise.  There's a larger producer in my state of Katahdin sheep and he wants to do a fall and spring lamb pool for smaller producers like me so we can all get better prices on our lambs than we can at the local auction barns.   Several people are interested and I'm interested on two levels.    I can more easily sell my lambs and for a better price than I can get at my local place and I can also meet more Katahdin producers in the state, thus possibly buying into better blood lines when we change out rams or want to add more ewes.
> 
> I may still hold out some of the better ram lambs for selling off the land or providing locals with grass fed lamb for butcher, but this would help us tremendously to streamline our farm income while networking with other Katahdin growers in the state.
> 
> Just need to work on my stock trailer to build a good looking topper for it and painting it with our farm colors and sign so we have a real farm identity when we go to these lamb pools.  Who knows?  Pretty soon that little 4x8 may be too small to accommodate our lamb production!


Very cool. Having a market where you know you can sell whatever you produce is always a good thing.


----------



## Baymule

That sounds like a very good deal. Plus the added bonus of networking with other breeders. Win-win!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> That sounds like a very good deal. Plus the added bonus of networking with other breeders. Win-win!



Bay, I didn't even know there were that many people in my state breeding Katahdins!  It's good to see that happening, as the more sheep we produce, the more people actually try this good, sweet meat and it will be more in demand locally.  Hopefully!  

I hope to market to the one and only butcher in the area, as I don't know if he has a supplier of grass fed lamb, which is becoming way more desirable to the keto crowd.  Don't want to put all my eggs in one basket here, as the lamb pool idea is a good one but that ships our good stock out of the state, which I hate to see.  I'd like to see lamb become more mainstream in the US, like it is in Australia and New Zealand.


----------



## Beekissed

Needed to band a 7 mo. ram lamb or use a burdizzo, but liked the looks of the California bander and got one.   I really LIKE this bander and the ram barely noticed we had banded him....flinched at first and then went back to grazing like nothing had happened.  Will report on how well it goes.


----------



## farmerjan

The California bander is popular with cattlemen to band older bull calves also.  We have a "Callicrate" brand bander and have been very pleased with the results.  The bulls are usually in the 3-600 lb range, and I find that they will be a little "lay around mopey" for maybe an hour or 2,  but by the next day, you won't know you ever did anything to them.  I have never used the Calf bander but it is well liked but cattlemen.


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## Baymule

I'm not going to castrate this year. I'll wean at 2 months and take to auction. 

Yes, let us know how you like the bander!


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## Baymule

How's Murphy?


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> How's Murphy?



He's doing well and was just moved down to the big field with the sheep yesterday...on a tether, of course, as he still wants to eat Blue's face off and he doesn't know the sheep.   He's still in training and I still don't trust him fully as we've had no time to bond yet.  

He HAS learned to wait politely for his food until I tell him he can have it, has learned to give me space and be polite around my body....before he was constantly pushing against me, looping his paws around one of my legs, etc.   He's learned that we won't enter into his space until he calms down, so he's doing that more quickly now.  

When he's been on the tether for a bit with the sheep, he'll graduate to a tire drag.  We'll be getting Sport's Dog fencing soon and will get it up as soon as we get the big field fenced in.  I finally got around to ordering him his ID tag, so even if he blows past two electric fencing systems and takes his drag along with, someone can call me if he's found.


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## Baymule

He will take patience, but will be so worth it! The tire drag is a good idea, wouldn't work for me because of too many trees that my husband is in love with and won't let me cut for more pasture. Murphy is going to make you one fine dog. Have you considered neutering him? It might take some of the attitude out of him, before it gets to be solidly entrenched behavior. My two, Sentry and Carson still have theirs and they are getting ugly to each other. Wrong thing to do dogs, it is snip, snip time.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> He will take patience, but will be so worth it! The tire drag is a good idea, wouldn't work for me because of too many trees that my husband is in love with and won't let me cut for more pasture. Murphy is going to make you one fine dog. Have you considered neutering him? It might take some of the attitude out of him, before it gets to be solidly entrenched behavior. My two, Sentry and Carson still have theirs and they are getting ugly to each other. Wrong thing to do dogs, it is snip, snip time.



Yep....right now it's a 6-9 mo. wait for neutering through the not so Humane Society and/or it's a shorter wait through the local vets, but it will cost each dog over $300 for neutering.   

I've been told, even if I neuter them both, that they may still fight all the time...I'm hoping that's not the case, as both WILL be neutered as soon as I can.  Murphy comes first.   

Right now I've too many irons in the fire to attend to it...my Dad just died, so dealing with all of that with the funeral and Mom, family and such, then I'm scrambling to get in the winter firewood...doing that mostly by myself, though Eli cuts up the stump logs, I'm doing all the splitting and transport, loading into the shed and onto the porch.  

We are also trying to get that big field fenced in(haven't got a single post in the ground yet)before hard winter.   Still haven't butchered the chickens nor the wethers for canning up, nor even got the coop ready for winter.  Collecting some more bags of leaves when I go into town today....hate to do that on a Sunday, but the leaves are there and I'll be there, so might as well take a truck and trailer and collect leaves, huh?  

In the middle of all of that I'm trying to find time to be with the grandkids(they depend on me so much for so many things)and take care of Mom.   

Dog nuts will have to take a back burner for now, you know?


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## Baymule

I'm so sorry about your Dad. I know he has not been in very good health for a long time and it may come as a relief, but is still sad and will leave a gap in your and your Mom's lives. I was with my Daddy when he died and I cried tears of relief for him that he would no longer suffer. It's been almost 30 years and I still miss him. If you can, take a little time for yourself. A quiet moment in the pasture with the sheep is the best medicine for a broken heart. Big hugs to you. 

You got a lot on your plate right now, and it will continue for sometime. Lots of work ahead getting ready for winter. Add the things to be done after your Dad's funeral, the paperwork and legalities can get absurd. My prayers are with you.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I'm so sorry about your Dad. I know he has not been in very good health for a long time and it may come as a relief, but is still sad and will leave a gap in your and your Mom's lives. I was with my Daddy when he died and I cried tears of relief for him that he would no longer suffer. It's been almost 30 years and I still miss him. If you can, take a little time for yourself. A quiet moment in the pasture with the sheep is the best medicine for a broken heart. Big hugs to you.
> 
> You got a lot on your plate right now, and it will continue for sometime. Lots of work ahead getting ready for winter. Add the things to be done after your Dad's funeral, the paperwork and legalities can get absurd. My prayers are with you.



Thank you, Bay.    It's the working and also the sitting in the pasture with the sheep and Blue that give me quiet times of solace, prayer and peace.  After the funeral I'll be able to get back to having time for that.  

Dad's death was a very peace filled one and Mom was in bed with him, holding him when he breathed his last, so good in many ways.   We are feeling quite blessed in many ways right now as God has been moving and taking care of things long before we ever run into the problem, so walking light right now and feeling that all is well with my soul.   

This is the first death in our family, so it's all very strange and surreal, and I'm going to miss seeing and taking care of Dad.  He was 89 yrs old.


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## Baymule

I had the honor of being with my great aunt, who had no children, my Mom was very close to her. We were both with her, it was Mother's Day. We had a sad breakfast at a Denny's in Houston near the Medical Center. Being with my Daddy, then with my Mom as they left this world gave me peace, knowing that their suffering was over.


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## farmerjan

Thoughts and prayers for you.  My parents health has declined greatly and my mom has dementia/alzheimers or something they won't put a label on.  Family dynamics being what they are, my one brother is "in charge" of their care and all.  Stopped trying to fight them so I stay at my distance.  I butt heads with my father terribly as we are too alike.  So it is better for all concerned to keep my distance and offer what I can even when it is totally rebuffed by the brother.


----------



## Beekissed

farmerjan said:


> Thoughts and prayers for you.  My parents health has declined greatly and my mom has dementia/alzheimers or something they won't put a label on.  Family dynamics being what they are, my one brother is "in charge" of their care and all.  Stopped trying to fight them so I stay at my distance.  I butt heads with my father terribly as we are too alike.  So it is better for all concerned to keep my distance and offer what I can even when it is totally rebuffed by the brother.



I have the opposite situation...none of the other kids wants anything to do with taking care of their parents and are more than glad to let me handle it all.   They don't want updates or anything else as they would rather not know.   I'm okay with that, as their input tends to lack rational thought or sincerity.


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## thistlebloom

Bee, I'm sorry to hear about your dad, but so joyous for the situation that you and your mom were there with him.
I understand your lightness and  peace. 

My folks have been gone for seven years now. Leaves a hole even when you know it's coming. They died 57 days apart and because of distance and unhealthy family dynamics my good sis and I were not able to be with them at the last. I regret not being able to take care of them, though my sis and I were certainly willing.

You have a lot on your plate right now, emotionally and physically it sounds.
I pray for your strength and that these things will all get done in good time before winter moves in hard.


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Bee, I'm sorry to hear about your dad, but so joyous for the situation that you and your mom were there with him.
> I understand your lightness and  peace.
> 
> My folks have been gone for seven years now. Leaves a hole even when you know it's coming. They died 57 days apart and because of distance and unhealthy family dynamics my good sis and I were not able to be with them at the last. I regret not being able to take care of them, though my sis and I were certainly willing.
> 
> You have a lot on your plate right now, emotionally and physically it sounds.
> I pray for your strength and that these things will all get done in good time before winter moves in hard.



Thank you, T!     I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with unhealthy family dynamics...our family is covered over in such things.  The funeral will be tension filled and that's only with the kids coming that tolerate one another.   There will be three that won't be there at all.  

Then there is me... I'm opting to stay at home to watch all the great grandchildren, get them fed and corral them in my room for playing, if possible.  Should be the job of DILs and daughters, but they will be "supporting" their husbands, from what I gather.  I don't need to be there to see a box go in the ground....I gave all my love and respect while Dad was still living, so no need for ritualized gestures.


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## Baymule

We as a family, have never had any ugliness when settling things after a death in the family. Well, there is that cousin, greedy witch...... after she was caught red handed _stealing_ as we were cleaning out my Grandmother's apartment, my sister lowered the boom on her like a bomb, and ran her out. Nobody had anything else to do with her after that, but me. I tried to be friendly and helpful, but her drama finally got to be to much and I backed off. There are some people who are just so self centered and disagreeable that a saint would want to smother them in their sleep with a pillow. 

The rest of us all get along. After running my cousin out, the rest of us divided up Grandmother's belongings, taking turns selecting what we wanted, then trading to someone for something they had. It all was very friendly and no hard feelings. After Mom's stroke, she moved in with us. So she told the family to come get what they wanted and they did. Then everyone came back to help with the garage sale and get everything cleared out. Of course, Mom got the money. When Mom died, I was dividing up a stock account and needed everyone's signatures on a form. Mail would have taken a week or two, sure wasn't going to drive all over Texas, so I sent a text. I told the heirs to write their signature, take a picture of it and send it to me so I could copy it and forge the forms and get things settled up. They did, I did and they got their shares. LOL 

It is so sad when people fight over possessions, it splits the family and hard feelings that never go away. Bee, it sounds like the fighting is about to start. I am so sorry about that. As usual, you are taking the high road and staying out of it. keeping the kids sounds like a much better choice. I hope the ugliness doesn't upset your mother.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> It is so sad when people fight over possessions, it splits the family and hard feelings that never go away. Bee, it sounds like the fighting is about to start. I am so sorry about that. As usual, you are taking the high road and staying out of it. keeping the kids sounds like a much better choice. I hope the ugliness doesn't upset your mother.



I doubt there will be any fighting, as they are all too cowardly and passive aggressive....usually someone does something that unknowingly offends another person~or their wife~ and that offended person stops talking to the other one for the next 25 yrs and never once tells anyone why.   Not that they talked much anyway, but then they go out of their way to snub.   That's my family.  

Dad doesn't have any possessions any longer and anything of any value has already been weaseled out of Mom long ago by the eldest son.  Nothing left to fight over, essentially.  Mom is so used to the ugliness that she wouldn't notice it, most likely, and is so confused and befuddled right now it wouldn't even give her pause.  

The property?  I get it when Mom dies, already put in place with a survivorship deed~none of them know that for sure but they have their suspicions.  Not that I care, really, as it's all just so much stuff to me and I could take it or leave it....God takes care of all of my needs and always has, so it matters little to me where I live or what I possess on this Earth.   There's a freedom in that that is priceless and I wouldn't trade it for any amount of money or possessions on Earth. 

My family has always seemed strange to me....all that time in life wasted on petty things and all the while convinced of their own intelligence and superiority over all the others.  I'll tell you right now that some of them will be offended by my not attending the funeral, though they won't speak to me or any of my children anyway and could care less if I lived or died.   They always seem to find something to be offended about.


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## Baymule

I like your attitude. Make yourself happy, take care of your Mom and to heck with them.


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## thistlebloom

My observation in life is that a family members death brings out the best in some people and the worst in others. It seems to be a litmus test of character.


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## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> My observation in life is that a family members death brings out the best in some people and the worst in others. It seems to be a litmus test of character.



I agree.  My family are currently failing that litmus test.


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## Larsen Poultry Ranch

Beekissed said:


> I agree.  My family are currently failing that litmus test.


I'm sorry you are going through that. Death can be a difficult thing to deal with, and a lot of people don't deal well. I hope they get their acts together and behave decently; failing that, I hope they don't cause too much trouble. Sending hugs your way.


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## Mini Horses

So sorry for the loss of your dad.  He is now at peace and you can be, too, until you meet again.


----------



## Beekissed

Got a new pack member this past Sunday.  A little Anatolian/Akbash mix pup from up in OH and we are incredibly pleased with our purchase.  She's just 8 wks old and barely weaned off mama for 3 days before we picked her up, but she's still on the ground and ready to go like no other pup I've seen, especially in this cold weather.  Never got a pup in cold weather before, so didn't quite know what to expect but she's adapted incredibly well from life in a nice, dry and warm barn with all her siblings, to snow, rain, freezing weather and outdoors living.  

The first night was pretty miserable for her, though she had dry, warm hay and a crate to be in out there.  Since then I increased the size and type of house but she doesn't use it at all....doesn't like to be inside that small of a space, I imagine.  I feed her in there so the sheep and Blue can't steal it before she's done but I can tell she doesn't sleep there now.   Took her exactly two days to leave shelter behind and integrate fully with the sheep and Blue....now she follows the sheep wherever they go, plays so hard with Blue that she punctured his lip, has learned the dangers of the high tensile fencing and beds down at night in the hay with all the rest of the pasture fixtures.  She's been here 5 days and she's fitting in like Flynn. 

Her name~and don't blame me for this one either~is Pinky Pie, aka Pinky Pie Sugar Booger.  She's smart, sweet and not too moochy but loves affection all the same~but doesn't attempt to follow me out of the pasture.  She's learning at lightning speed from Blue and the sheep and seems quite happy about her new life.  Just pops right along behind the flock as they forage in the brush, plays violently with old bones while the sheep lie down and ruminate, and has the most amazing pelt I've ever seen on a domestic animal....reminds me more of a wild animal's coat, with a deep, soft pile that allows nothing to penetrate to the skin and a slight oily coating that seems to repel snow and rain.  Never seen that on a dog before, but I'm loving it!  










She's about the same color as the sheep are right now, so it's often hard to spot her among the flock....for now she's the little one in the back, but in a few months it will be hard to spot her out there. 









....and Blue!  So, now we have  Blue and Pink on guard in that paddock.  Will be much more funny when she's a full grown power house full of teeth to be calling that girl "Pinky Pie".


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## thistlebloom

She sounds like a valuable and wonderful new addition. Congratulations on your new pack member!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

She is a beautiful girl.  But - poor baby - going from a nice cozy barn to being plopped into 20 degree snowy weather (at only 8 weeks when she hasn't even had all her shots yet).   Of course, I don't have to deal with that kind of weather so I don't really know how cold is too cold.  What kind of temps would it take for frostbite to be a concern?  Maybe she should go snuggle with Murphy!  He's bound to be a big ol' bundle of warmth.  How's he working out?  They would sure make some pretty babies!


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## thistlebloom

She certainly has a plush coat. Bred to be a tough and rugged guardian!

Even my farm dog Bernese prefers laying in the snow belly up when it's snowing to being in shelter. She rarely uses her dog house and is comfortable in all manner of "awful" weather. And she wasn't bred specifically to withstand harsh conditions. 

Makes me think of the contrast between a store bought horse and a mustang. 
My QH gelding sought his shelter in inclement weather, spent a lot of time in there looking out. My little mustang only uses the shelter when I put her hay in there. Otherwise she prefers to be out in everything. Her coat is plush and keeps her plenty warm. I've never seen her shiver, even when the snow has melted on her coat and turned to ice, and the hair inside her ears is frosted with ice. Tougher genetics.


----------



## Ridgetop

Beautiful pup!  Looks to be very well integrated with the sheep already.  Where are you?  Ohio is cold weather winter territory too so maybe not as drastic a change as you think.  When we got Angel from Idaho, it was cold with lots of snow on the ground and the pups had access to a shed of straw.  However they spent a lot of time outside the shed in the goat pen playing.  They would also lay down and nap in the snow!  

Anatolians and Akbash have a short top coat of guard hairs.  Like all LGDs these guard hairs are made to ward off water and mud.  No matter how muddy our Pyrs got, the mud would simply fall off once they were dry leaving the Pyrs' bright white.  The Anatolians are the same.  They have a warm undercoat that insulates them.  Remember that although we may think of Turkey as being hot and dry, the mountainous regions are extremely cold in winter and do get lot of snow.  

The most interesting aspect of LGDs (and I see this particularly well in our shorter coated Anatolians) is the amount of loose skin they have on their bodies and necks.  This excess skin makes them able to turn their bodies inside their skin if a predator (wolf, bear, lion) gets hold of them.  I have seen my dogs actually do this while playing with each other.  One will have what looks a death grip on a throat or nape of the neck and the one that is being held is able to turn around and grab its attacker!  

They also seem to have a higher pain threshhold than most dogs.  When Angel got that humongous tear in her upper flank, she didn't even whine when I put antiseptic on the gaping wound, bound it up together and took her to the vet.  It was during the beginning of the quarantine last March, on a Sunday night of course, and it took us a couple of hours to locate an emergency vet to see her.  2 hours later she didn't move or cry while the vet examined the wound!


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> She certainly has a plush coat. Bred to be a tough and rugged guardian!
> 
> Even my farm dog Bernese prefers laying in the snow belly up when it's snowing to being in shelter. She rarely uses her dog house and is comfortable in all manner of "awful" weather. And she wasn't bred specifically to withstand harsh conditions.
> 
> Makes me think of the contrast between a store bought horse and a mustang.
> My QH gelding sought his shelter in inclement weather, spent a lot of time in there looking out. My little mustang only uses the shelter when I put her hay in there. Otherwise she prefers to be out in everything. Her coat is plush and keeps her plenty warm. I've never seen her shiver, even when the snow has melted on her coat and turned to ice, and the hair inside her ears is frosted with ice. Tougher genetics.



Those Bernies are mountain dogs!    I'd say it's all in her genetics, wouldn't you say?  I wish Blue had as deep a pelt as this pup...to me he looks pretty scantily clad for winter.  I'd say HIS genetics may be to blame for that.


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> Beautiful pup! Looks to be very well integrated with the sheep already. Where are you? Ohio is cold weather winter territory too so maybe not as drastic a change as you think.



I'm in WV....a bit further east and of higher elevations but pretty much the same weather, though this pup has been spending all her time in a nice, dry stall with Mom and siblings for warmth, so I guess it surprised me how quickly she acclimated to damp, cold, snow, rain and wind.   She hasn't sought shelter since her second night here and now prefers to remain with the sheep and Blue rather than snuggling in the warmth of the hay in her range hut.  She seems to love every minute of her new life....I guess to us it seems bleak and holding no comfort during the winter weather, but to her it seems like she has more to do, more things to see and smell, and has a job to do, which is important for this type of dog.  Just never saw it in one so young!  



Ridgetop said:


> The most interesting aspect of LGDs (and I see this particularly well in our shorter coated Anatolians) is the amount of loose skin they have on their bodies and necks.



That's this pup.....more loose skin than on any other LGD breed pup I've had~you could fit another pup in there!  Blue doesn't have much loose skin except around his neck, like most of them.  This pup can practically swim in all the extra hide she's got and she's a plump little rolly polly.


----------



## Baymule

She sounds like she is made for your farm. A baby and already stepping up like a 2 year old dog. These dogs are so tough. My anatolians are usually outside where they can see and hear what’s going on. I don’t put them in the barn at night with the sheep, but they can access a small part of it to get out of bad weather if they wish.

Pinkie Pie. I love it.
So what about Murphy? I know he was a handful and only wanted to fight with Blue. Did you keep him or find him another home?


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> So what about Murphy? I know he was a handful and only wanted to fight with Blue. Did you keep him or find him another home?



Murphy was really coming around and I was liking the changes in his demeanor towards humans...he was responding to some training and seemed like he could eventually be trained on working.  But, no, he couldn't resolve his aggression towards Blue.  It's a shame, because I was growing to really like that dog...he was beautiful, strong and intelligent.  

I was going to get him and Blue neutered but then had many people state their LDGs didn't get along, even after neutering...so, I was at an impasse.  Couldn't drag both dogs to the vet(they both despise riding in vehicles) for neutering that may or may not work to ease the aggression.   Couldn't keep him tethered all his life and he couldn't do his job that way, couldn't get him to tolerate Blue and Blue was getting quite wary of Murphy's aggression.   I couldn't risk him hurting Blue, as Blue is the only one here that is dependable guarding the sheep and this winter is crucial...I'll have the only easy prey around and all these hungry predators. 

So, Murphy doesn't live here any longer.  I tried all I could and everything I knew, but it didn't work out the way I'd hoped and prayed.  And I really miss him....was growing quite attached to the big, sweet lug, so it hurts.


----------



## thistlebloom

I'm sorry Murphy didn't work out for your situation Bee, but I know you worked hard at trying to make him fit. With a working animal that you have to rely on for the welfare of your livestock you didn't have the luxury of keeping him around for sentimental reasons. 
I respect your quest to find a dog that will protect as well as get along. 
Looks like you've found her in Pink. 



Beekissed said:


> Those Bernies are mountain dogs!  I'd say it's all in her genetics, wouldn't you say?



Yes, her love of cold weather is certainly genetic. I meant that she wasn't bred to be out in all weathers guarding a flock. I'm sure her ancestors had the option of a nice barn or maybe even a farmhouse kitchen to come into if they chose.


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> I'm sorry Murphy didn't work out for your situation Bee, but I know you worked hard at trying to make him fit. With a working animal that you have to rely on for the welfare of your livestock you didn't have the luxury of keeping him around for sentimental reasons.
> I respect your quest to find a dog that will protect as well as get along.
> Looks like you've found her in Pink.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, her love of cold weather is certainly genetic. I meant that she wasn't bred to be out in all weathers guarding a flock. I'm sure her ancestors had the option of a nice barn or maybe even a farmhouse kitchen to come into if they chose.



You have hit the nail on the head.  I don't have the luxury of keeping every dog...only those that can help us here.  It's like interviewing for a job and some don't seem fit for the job, so they get jobs elsewhere that they ARE suited for.  

Most folks don't view dogs in that manner and I didn't used to either, but that's before I had a flock of sheep that we've spent a good bit of money on and the start of our farm here.  These dogs aren't merely pets but actual farm employees....but are also pets to me.   But, if I have to choose between those that can help me and are pets, and those that cannot but are pets, the choices become more clear.  Any dog can be a pet, but not any dog can do this particular job.  

I'm hoping and praying that this little girl pup will grow into the job as I'm really tired of rehoming/selling dogs that I've grown attached to because they aren't able to do the job well.  If we were rich folks, I think we could just feed them and fence them in places where they couldn't harm one another or the livestock, but that wouldn't make any sense either.  And we are not rich people...not even middle class, so the option to keep all the dogs is not on the table.  Only those that are necessary to work the farm.


----------



## Baymule

Murphy came to you as a dog with problems. I hope he went to a home where he is the only dog, since he is aggressive to other dogs. For what it's worth, i think Murphy didn't want to share YOU and considered Blue a rival. I know you really liked Murphy, he was a beautiful dog.  You did right, Blue is your faithful hard working boy. You couldn't let him get beat up by Murphy. 

Carson, the black Lab/Great Dane cross that we have, and Sentry don't get along. Most of the time they do, but they have their moments. Since Carson is not officially a working dog, I can keep them separate. They are both going to get neutered, that ought to take some of the edge off. 

I think you have found your dog. Pinkie is right for you and your farm, to start with. She isn't a dog that somebody has messed up for you to try to correct. She is all yours, right from the start. She is already getting with the program, Pinkie belongs there.

How are things with your Mom since your Dad passed away? I hope she is ok.


----------



## Baymule

Beekissed said:


> You have hit the nail on the head.  I don't have the luxury of keeping every dog...only those that can help us here.  It's like interviewing for a job and some don't seem fit for the job, so they get jobs elsewhere that they ARE suited for.
> 
> Most folks don't view dogs in that manner and I didn't used to either, but that's before I had a flock of sheep that we've spent a good bit of money on and the start of our farm here.  These dogs aren't merely pets but actual farm employees....but are also pets to me.   But, if I have to choose between those that can help me and are pets, and those that cannot but are pets, the choices become more clear.  Any dog can be a pet, but not any dog can do this particular job.



You are so right. Your working dogs can be pets, but pets can't be working dogs. You need dogs that are worth their dog food, partners that do the work you need them to do, keep your sheep safe from predators.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Murphy came to you as a dog with problems. I hope he went to a home where he is the only dog, since he is aggressive to other dogs. For what it's worth, i think Murphy didn't want to share YOU and considered Blue a rival. I know you really liked Murphy, he was a beautiful dog.  You did right, Blue is your faithful hard working boy. You couldn't let him get beat up by Murphy.
> 
> Carson, the black Lab/Great Dane cross that we have, and Sentry don't get along. Most of the time they do, but they have their moments. Since Carson is not officially a working dog, I can keep them separate. They are both going to get neutered, that ought to take some of the edge off.
> 
> I think you have found your dog. Pinkie is right for you and your farm, to start with. She isn't a dog that somebody has messed up for you to try to correct. She is all yours, right from the start. She is already getting with the program, Pinkie belongs there.
> 
> How are things with your Mom since your Dad passed away? I hope she is ok.



She's doing very well.  Weepy on some days, replaying memories every day, but working through her grief quite well.  She went to her dance practice today and seemed happy to get back to her dance ladies, some of whom remember Dad when he danced with the group.   She's been sleeping with his military flag in the bed each night....I guess that makes her feel closer to Dad.  

We are both missing him being gone from this Earth, but corona restrictions had taken him from us many months back, so we were glad he didn't have to live in that nursing home anymore with no way for family to visit.  No way of making him understand why we no longer could visit....when I think about it, it makes me furious.  Furious for him and for all the other elderly who don't know why family can't come see them anymore.  

We are currently trying to work through the various paper work involved with SS and the VA, along with other paperwork and that all seems overwhelming for her, but we'll get through it together.  

Thanks for asking, Bay, you are so very sweet!  And thanks for understanding about Murphy....I'm still hurting over him, which is why I've not said anything.  I seriously didn't want to let him go and I still tear up when I think about him.    

I keep thinking maybe I was just a conduit for both Charlie and Murphy, getting them to the places they needed to be in a round about way...but not here.  

I have high hopes for this pup.  I'm doing things differently this time....no leash training or obedience type training with her until she's fully bonded with that flock, so she doesn't want to leave them to be with me~and then, training only in the pasture with the sheep in sight.  I made that mistake with Charlie~taking her out of the pasture and away from the sheep for obedience training~ and I thought I'd done so with Blue, but he's growing more and more bonded with the sheep and doesn't voluntarily leave them now just to hang out with us.  

Blue is helping me with all of that bonding/training, so he's become quite invaluable though he's still considered a pup himself.  

Now, if I can just get Dooley trained as a sheep herding dog, I just may have a good team going on here.  He's growing more intense in his herding instinct but I've not had the chance lately to work with him, so all that nervous energy has no good outlet.  I need to get him down there to meet the pup and let the pack romp together each day, so it's not as much of a shock to them when he's actually working the sheep.  Blue's okay with it, but that girl pup needs to learn he's okay too.


----------



## Baymule

I must have felt something was going on, because you were on my mind. I figured you were working through things and would come back and tell us when you were ready. I do understand about Murphy, I don't think anyone here will think less of you for finding a better fit for him. It takes courage and wisdom to know when you have to make a change, hurt though it may. 

I feel so bad for you, your Mom and most of all, your Dad. I think cutting off family is more cruel than the Covid virus. Letting an elderly person pass away with no family is more than cruel, it is downright criminal. I was honored to be with my Dad and my Mom when they died. Whether they knew i was there or not, I don't know. I like to think that they did. I want to think that they knew I was there and that I loved them. Being denied to be with them, being denied telling them that I loved them, I just don't have words...... 

Big hugs to you, you have a lot on your plate right now. You know you can always come to your BYH family, we got 'cher back.


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## Sheepshape

Baymule said:


> "Those sheep are going to be so pissed off when they get to our place."


But they were REALLY loved when they came to you!


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## Sheepshape

Beekissed, these are horrible times for so many of us....and little sign of things improving for some while. You have had some 'rough rides' recently......I hope things settle down for you soon. Time is a great healer, but memories often don't 'mellow' as much as we would like for moments which can never be replaced.

I've got a new pup, too, and am going to get her formally sheep trained if I can find the right trainer. At least having a new pup is a joy (and also a challenge!)


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## Beekissed

Sheepshape said:


> Beekissed, these are horrible times for so many of us....and little sign of things improving for some while. You have had some 'rough rides' recently......I hope things settle down for you soon. Time is a great healer, but memories often don't 'mellow' as much as we would like for moments which can never be replaced.
> 
> I've got a new pup, too, and am going to get her formally sheep trained if I can find the right trainer. *At least having a new pup is a joy (and also a challenge!)*



I agree!  This pup is a joy and brings a much needed smile to my face right now.  I can't stop myself from sinking my hands and face into her soft, thick fur and loving on her when I'm in the paddock.  I love watching her dinking around behind the flock or attacking an old bone like it's a coyote.  She's so very active for one so young, but not in a hyperactive way....more like a pup that's much older than she is.  

I thank God for such a hardy, strong pup that doesn't need a whole lot of my time and nurturing right now, but still likes some lovin' when I can give it to her.  I've been giving her warm whole milk in her food each day and that's about all the nurturing she's getting besides the hugs and pets.  

I wish I could find and afford a trainer to which I could send Dooley off for herd training...that would take such a load off my mind and chore list.  I know zip about herd training, but this pup clearly needs a job...he's just jittery with excess energy and an obsession to herd.  He's 6 mo. old now and ready to jump right out of his skin! 

I hope you find someone for your new pup and I hope you post vid of her working when you do...I LOVE seeing those dogs work!


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## Ridgetop

Beekissed said:


> You have hit the nail on the head. I don't have the luxury of keeping every dog...only those that can help us here. It's like interviewing for a job and some don't seem fit for the job, so they get jobs elsewhere that they ARE suited for.



That is the _exact thing_ I try to stress when writing about acquiring working LGDs.  Not all of them have the aptitude for guarding _in the way you need_.  All LGDs have different personalities just like people.  Some are better guardians than others.  Unless you know exactly what to look for in a guardian dog pup, an _*experienced  breeder of working LGDs*_ is the best bet for choosing you a pup that will grow into the exact guardian you want.  

Keeping males of the same age and females of the same age together are often a problem in certain breeds.  Anatolians are well known for not tolerating same sex/same age companions.  If you have working Anatolian LGDs, you are better served to have them separated by several years in age if the same sex.  Male and female Anatolians of the same age will work together.  If your farm is large enough to separate your same age/same sex Anatolians into different fenced pastures you can keep them but if they manage to get together, they will fight.  This does not seem to be the case with all LGD breeds.  Our Pyrs and Shar Pleninetz x Maremma got along fine with our large house dogs of the same age and sex.  Our Anatolians do not, although toy dogs do not seem to pose the same problems.  Maybe the Anatolians do not recognize them as dogs!    

Even in the same litter LGDs have different aptitudes for different situations.  Not all pups will be a good candidate for every guarding situation.  This is why an LGD that won't work out on your farm might be perfect for your neighbor with the same predators. 

Dogs and people both have different personalities.  Just like choosing friends and horses, you both need to suit each other.


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## Kusanar

Ridgetop said:


> Maybe the Anatolians do not recognize them as dogs!


Lol, I kind of have the same problem... My 13 lb "dog" is an overgrown rat crossed with a cat, and he's not even really small enough to be a toy! My reasoning is that you have to be at least as big / heavy as my cats to be a dog.


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## Beekissed

If I hadn't seen this with my own eyes, I doubt I'd believe it if someone told me....but, this morning was the first time I started training on this pup about the down and wait for your food.  First time I've had Blue even do it since she came here.  First time they've eaten side by side since she's come.  

So, I prepared both pans and put them on the ground, but hesitated a moment before doing so....Blue knows this means he's to lie down.  He lay down.  The pup backed off and lay down too...I've not taught her that, so was impressed right away.  I put the pans down and neither dog got up to approach them.  I'm stunned at this time, because the pup has been eating like every other dog until now, rushing the food bowl and starting right in.   


I let them lie there for a matter of seconds and then said the "okay"...Blue jumped up and put his nose in her bowl instead of his own and she just lay there, didn't move.  I put Blue back on his pan and then told her it was okay while patting the pan...then and only then did she come to the food!!!!! 

It's like a miracle, this pup....she has exceeded all my expectations and she's only been here a week and a half.  I watched both dogs this morning as they went about their business...which, for Blue, meant lying down for a snooze, but still alert.   For the pup that meant following the flock into the brush and staying with them everywhere they went.  She never lies down until they do, then she lies down with them.  Every time I look down in that paddock I find the pup with the flock and Blue on sentry at a distance.   Sometimes he's up on the round bales watching, sometimes he's flat out on the ground...but he can spring up in a flash and be with the flock like lightning.  

The pup moves through the flock, often brushing her body up against them, weaving through and under their bellies and legs.  They touch noses with her~yeah...this flock that barely tolerates Blue~and let her rub against them.  She never follows Blue around like that, just the sheep.  I rarely even see her playing with Blue...one time since she came, have we seen that.  

For now, I'm thanking the Lord for this pup and all her good traits, like I've never seen before in a dog that young.  I hope and pray they continue!   I really needed an easy dog long about right now. 

Nuzzling with the ram lamb, Noodles...




















I don't know if that's what folks call bonding, as I've not seen it yet in any of my dogs as of yet.  Blue and old Rose seem to be bonded, but he doesn't seem to buddy up with the rest of the flock.  

This flock seem to look favorably on this pup and seem also to enjoy her nearness, both male and female alike.


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## Baymule

Wow! That is fabulous Bee! You must be about to bust with happiness. Finally. You have your dream dog.


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## Ridgetop

Looks like you have a real winner.  

Don't be surprised if she goes through some teenage "play behavior " issues later with the sheep or lambs.  Even the best guardians will often play rough with the sheep at a certain age when they identify with them as pack members.  

It looks like she is really watching Blue for her cues so she may play with blue instead of the lambs.   But even if she plays rough with the sheep at around 12-18 months old, she will pass through that phase.  Usually it is as they want to play and identify with the sheep so closely that they try to play with them in a pack manner, nipping at ears and legs.  Not acceptable but identifiable and instead of freaking out you can deal with it *if* it occurs.  Not all LGDs go through this phase.

This pup sounds like a terrific LGD.  Congratulations!


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## thistlebloom

She sounds like a real treasure, I'm so happy for you to have a great dog in the making. 😍


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## Beekissed

Pinky Pie met children for the first time today and her initial reaction to was the most strange I'd ever seen.  From afar she started barking at us as I led the group of grandkids into the field...then as we continued to walk towards her, she tucked her tail and ran, yelping all the way.   She ran clear down the paddock and hid behind a huge pile of stump logs.   I called to her as I walked towards her, having left the visitors about 50 yds behind me, seated in the hay.  

As I advanced towards her she started screaming like I was beating her....a very high pitched screaming like I'd never heard out of any dog I'd ever owned!   After I got a hand on her, she shut up and let me pick her up.  I petted her and talked sweet to her all the way back to the grandkids and when she got there she acted like any other puppy....a loving ball of sweetness and licks.  

A very weird first reaction, to say the least, but she soon warmed up and acted like a normal pup...but she didn't try to follow us down the field and to the gate along with Blue, which I thought was good.


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## Baymule

She didn't know WHAT those were! She is a fabulous pup, but still just a baby, she got scared! LOL


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## Kusanar

Lol, reminds me of a few times with my horses. I had an old been there / done that type of appaloosa gelding that absolutely lost his mind at a show because there was a costume class and a girl had dressed up as Little Bo Peep and dressed her yearling mini donkey as a sheep. Thunder backed all the way around our truck and stock trailer trying to get away from that sheep donkey!

Another time was when I got my mini... first they all were scared to death of him, and then the switch flipped and they all wanted to KILL him... they settled down pretty quickly (a few days) but it was an exciting first few days for the little guy who can actually run as fast as a normal sized horse even though his legs are only about a foot long!

Also, that pup is so cute and young that you don't realize just how BIG she is until you see her with kids nearly the same size as her. She's going to be a monster!


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## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> Lol, reminds me of a few times with my horses. I had an old been there / done that type of appaloosa gelding that absolutely lost his mind at a show because there was a costume class and a girl had dressed up as Little Bo Peep and dressed her yearling mini donkey as a sheep. Thunder backed all the way around our truck and stock trailer trying to get away from that sheep donkey!
> 
> Another time was when I got my mini... first they all were scared to death of him, and then the switch flipped and they all wanted to KILL him... they settled down pretty quickly (a few days) but it was an exciting first few days for the little guy who can actually run as fast as a normal sized horse even though his legs are only about a foot long!
> 
> Also, that pup is so cute and young that you don't realize just how BIG she is until you see her with kids nearly the same size as her. She's going to be a monster!



Yes...I think the little people, the bright colors and even me wearing a different jacket threw her off her game.  

And I agree...that pup is HUGE for her age, so is likely to turn out bigger than our male, Blue.  Her legs are already as thick as his and she's 9.5 wks old!


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## Beekissed




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## Mike CHS

That is a great video and I wonder how long it took them to set that up.at was a nice video.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> That is a great video and I wonder how long it took them to set that up.at was a nice video.


A lot of good ol' boys with nothing but deep skill and time on their hands....would have loved to have been there!


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## farmerjan

@Beekissed  that was quite an outstanding video to post.  Really Really NEAT.


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## Baymule

I watched that and for once, didn't get the start-stop. That is a great video!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I watched that and for once, didn't get the start-stop. That is a great video!



I've watched it several times and STILL can't figure out how they made the legs "walk" like that....incredibly difficult!


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## Beekissed

Sheep and dogs enjoy a sunny day....rare lately.  I let the sheep out of paddock and into the yard to grab some of the grass.   Frosty morning and the sun rises...









Pinky Pie enjoys a pig ear...


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## Baymule

Merry Christmas Bee!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Merry Christmas Bee!



You too, Bay!   Looks like it's going to be a very cold, windy and snowy day tomorrow, so folks will get their white Christmas around these parts.  Right now it's just raining cats and dogs.


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## Kusanar

Merry Christmas all! It is cool and raining today, could turn into sleet and freezing rain later. Maybe snow tomorrow which I am ok with since I don't have to work again until the 28th so it has time to melt before then.


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## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> Merry Christmas all! It is cool and raining today, could turn into sleet and freezing rain later. Maybe snow tomorrow which I am ok with since I don't have to work again until the 28th so it has time to melt before then.



We got snow too!!  And it's still coming down in a real pretty, snow globe kind of way.....I LOVE it!   So do the animals, it would seem.  I feel so sorry for inside dogs that don't get to play out there for more than a little while, as my dogs have always loved snow days. 







The vet wrap on Pinky's leg has really helped her keep up with her sheep...and she likes to stay with her sheep all she can. 





I changed it out today and it was surprisingly dry under there.  I put on a fresh wrap and used the old one to reinforce the joint area a little more.  She seems to really like having that wrap on there...no more limping.  Second day of her good puppy food and she seems to love it....I gave her a little room temp buttermilk over it to help her gut transition to the new food. 









Dooley got to visit the paddock this morning for playing with dogs and stalking the sheep a little....just a little...but I wouldn't let him move them too much at all.  Got him an insulated jacket for this cold snap as he has no other dogs or even a sheep to snuggle with at night.  













Blue check to see if the chicken left a snack...and she didn't....so she had to move out of his fence.  No lay, no stay, sister! 





Right before she took wing and flew completely over the fencing.  LOL   She didn't like that cold nose goosing her egghola.


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## farmerjan

Pretty snow.  We got nearly all rain... over 1 1/2 inches total.  Changed over to snow about midnight.... snowed real hard but it didn't last too long.... so we had a decent "dusting" of white for Christmas.   Stayed cold all day.... 26 this morning after 60 yesterday.... never even got up to freezing and down into the teens tonight....
Glad the pup seems to be doing better with the leg wrap and hope the food change works.   Sometimes they just grow too fast for "all the parts to keep up" equally.... so I hope these little  tweaks will solve the problems.


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## Beekissed

farmerjan said:


> Pretty snow.  We got nearly all rain... over 1 1/2 inches total.  Changed over to snow about midnight.... snowed real hard but it didn't last too long.... so we had a decent "dusting" of white for Christmas.   Stayed cold all day.... 26 this morning after 60 yesterday.... never even got up to freezing and down into the teens tonight....
> Glad the pup seems to be doing better with the leg wrap and hope the food change works.   Sometimes they just grow too fast for "all the parts to keep up" equally.... so I hope these little  tweaks will solve the problems.



Me too.  She's a great dog thus far and seeing her with that leg knuckled over is just sad.  The vet wrap is really supporting the joint, though, as she's much more mobile than she was without it.  She loves the food and it even LOOKS good to eat, unlike most dog food.


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## Baymule

Love the snow pictures! The dogs are having a good time!


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## Kusanar

My dog hates snow.. of course he is a house dog with barely any fur. He's only happy on like 75 degree days when he can lay in the shade, the rest of the time he wants his climate controlled basement.


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## Beekissed

We have started work on clearing brush off the proposed fence line in the field next door.  It's mostly huge autumn olive and multiflora rose(10-15 ft tall) all tangled together and very densely grown in the first portion of the fence line.  It thins out further down the line, so that's a relief but the other side of the field will be dense, thorny and heavy brush once again.  

Just the little we got cleared the other day is startling to see.  I've been traveling this road since I was 10 yrs old, when one could only walk back as the road was impassable, but this is the first time I remember being able to look directly into that field without brush obscuring the view.   It's going to look GREAT when finished.   I wish I had taken a before pic but will try to remember to do so for the rest of this field renovation. 

We wouldn't really have to cut down all the autumn olive to run fence in behind it, but we would be coppicing that anyway to turn it into better feed for the sheep, so we are doing it now while it's winter.  All those stumps will sprout some tender young autumn olive and multiflora rose...and my sheep will eat it like they broke into a candy store.   Every time they rotate through that field they'll get  the benefit of that good nutrition and roughage, which they love best.   Every paddock we separate them into in that field should have some of this tender young browse for them.  

We'll likely cross fence this field sometime this spring so as to make the paddock smaller and more easily grazed by rotating within the smaller sections.   We also plan to make a mobile field shelter for this winter and early spring, as the sheep dearly hate rain and we'd like to be able to move the hoop shelter around the field as needed.  We'd likely park it on places that really need concentrated poop and trampling, then move it when it's had enough of both.  

Exciting new changes!    Lots of back breaking work but it's the kind of work where you get the see the progress every day you get to do it.  I love that kind of work!


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## Baymule

Clearing out the brush will be a big help. You are right, it does make you feel accomplished when you can see the progress you made. Far too many farm duties work us all day with nothing to "show" like a before and after! LOL


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## Beekissed

I saw an amazing thing today and maybe some of you have seen this already in your dogs but I'd yet to see such a thing.   Lately I've been seeing Blue harassing certain sheep...usually Rose(older, lead sheep)...and it's not play behavior.  He seems to be preventing her from moving where she wants to go or something.  I saw him pull her tail, pull on her legs and also rear up and pounce on her with his front legs all in the same episode.  This was all seen at a distance and both times I saw this, the pup was dancing around the whole thing and darting into the fray, so I was thinking she was copying Blue's behavior.   

Well, Blue earned himself a shock collar and as soon as he got that collar on, he stopped that behavior...Blue is very collar wise and it only takes wearing the collar to get results.  Never saw it again until today.   Today, with the shock collar long dead on battery and with no further recurrence of the behavior, I removed the collar, as I'm splitting wood in their paddock and he comes to me for pets.   Not long after that, I glanced up from splitting wood and saw Blue doing the same behavior to Shine(another older, lead sheep), who usually would just roll that dog if she takes a mind to.  I was waiting for her to do so, but she didn't and Blue continued to put his paws on her back and then would try to grab her back leg.   All the while I'm yelling a typical verbal correction at Blue and this usually very obedient dog would just look at me and go back to this behavior.   

Enter Pinky Pie, at 3 mo. old, mind you, and she runs over and starts to pull at Blue's back legs.  He continued to try and paw at Shine and Pinky Pie moved to his front and grabbed his jowl and braced her legs to pull.  So Blue is trying to fend off the pup and Shine turns around to butt him also.   The pup switched to his back leg and let Shine work the front and mild mannered Blue gave up.  He walked away and the pup sat down next to her sheep and watched him go.   If I had to caption the look on her face it would be, "Yeah, walk away, Big Boy....just walk away."   She watched him until he was sufficiently gone and involved in something else and then she lay down with some adjacent sheep but continued to watch Blue.  

Now, my mind thinks back to the times I saw him doing that to Rose and I had to rethink this pup's behavior, as I could not see it clearly at a distance.  I'm thinking she was trying to stop Blue then also but lacked the strength or power to do so.  Now that her legs are stronger, she's been displaying her growing power in how she plays with Blue, so I think her efforts today were more effective.   

I just never dreamed that a 3 mo. old pup would try to pull an older dog off of a sheep.  How does she have the confidence to do that?  I'll not be applying the shock collar on Blue any longer...I'm going to see how this pup does on correcting him.  She seems pretty effective now!  

I continue to be amazed at this puppy and also puzzled by what Blue is trying to do.  I checked over Rose after the last time he was doing that and he doesn't break skin.  He doesn't seem to be doing this with any intensity, but he seems to be trying to prevent the sheep from moving from one place to another.  Ordinarily if he wants them to move, he'll just gently walk around them until they start to move and then he'll follow behind them.  So, I'm thinking he's wanting these sheep to stop moving.  Not sure why, but Pinky sure doesn't like his methods.  

That Blue is the sweetest dog and came to me a couple of times while I was splitting wood to get petted and ear massages...he'll close his eyes and just lean into the pleasure of it all.  He's so polite and respectful when he approaches and moves around humans and he is usually so around the sheep, so it surprises me to see him using his mouth and paws on these two sheep.  Not sure what's going on in his head.  

Anybody else see such behavior from their LGDs?


----------



## Kusanar

I wonder if he's somehow trying to assert his dominance on the sheep in some sort of weird hybrid dog and sheep behavior. I'm thinking sheep behavior based on the movement control aspect, dog because of the grabbing and pulling. And it seems dominance based if he is only really going after the top sheep in the herd. 

Weird none the less and glad the baby girl is putting him in his place! Those are HER sheep and he's not allowed to chew on them!


----------



## Baymule

This is a new one on me. First thing that went through my mind, are the ewe in heat? Estrus is estrus and the smell may be making him misbehave. 

A guy that we used to get hay from had cattle. he got a jack donkey to protect the calves. Wrong. When the cows came in heat, the jack attacked the bull for trying to breed them. He chased the cows, biting and kicking them. Needless to say, that jack got hauled to auction.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> This is a new one on me. First thing that went through my mind, are the ewe in heat? Estrus is estrus and the smell may be making him misbehave.
> 
> A guy that we used to get hay from had cattle. he got a jack donkey to protect the calves. Wrong. When the cows came in heat, the jack attacked the bull for trying to breed them. He chased the cows, biting and kicking them. Needless to say, that jack got hauled to auction.



Nah, they are all bred but maybe pregnancy hormones?  Both of these older ewes may put off more hormones as the ram seems interested in their urine more than he is in the others.  He even tries to mount Rose now and again, but all these gals are preggers and well along the way.


----------



## Baymule

Could be. Maybe a dominance issue, but why now? Pinkie will straighten him out. Her, and the collar. LOL LOL


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Could be. Maybe a dominance issue, but why now? Pinkie will straighten him out. Her, and the collar. LOL LOL



He's only worn that collar a couple of times and only been shocked one of those times, a long while back.  The second time it was a vibration only.   Just from those two incidents that happened many months ago, he's wise to that collar and he also seemed to figure out just what behavior he had been doing that earned him the collar, as he stopped doing it without my having to give a correction....and started right back doing the behavior about 5 min. after I removed the Ecollar.  Smart dog,huh? 

These Anatolians seem incredibly sensitive to pain or discomfort.  Do you find the same thing with yours?


----------



## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> This is a new one on me. First thing that went through my mind, are the ewe in heat? Estrus is estrus and the smell may be making him misbehave.
> 
> A guy that we used to get hay from had cattle. he got a jack donkey to protect the calves. Wrong. When the cows came in heat, the jack attacked the bull for trying to breed them. He chased the cows, biting and kicking them. Needless to say, that jack got hauled to auction.


I'm not really sure that's true. I have a stallion that acts no differently around me no matter the time of the month. and I have read but not actually researched that the pheromones are different between species at least so far as females go. Males apparently do produce the same general pheromones between species when they are being aggressive and I assume in breeding mode. 

It would not surprise me that a jack that was put in to guard cows would react badly to a hormonal male coming bellowing into the field and "attacking" the cows. My dad used to drive dump trucks and had a bull attack his truck because they spooked the cows, farmer had to come out and rescue the truck.


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## Baymule

Estrus can get males excited, even cross species. Most males are ok, but some get crazy. I've had 2 female friends get almost attacked by stallions while in their time of the month. They both were careful around the stallions and got out of the pastures. One was their own stallion, one belonged to a friend that they let use the pasture. The stallions could smell it and it got them acting crazy. This is the only two instances where women got stallions all riled up that I know of. One was a young stud, all full of himself, the other was an older stud, both went stupid.


----------



## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> I'm not really sure that's true. I have a stallion that acts no differently around me no matter the time of the month. and I have read but not actually researched that the pheromones are different between species at least so far as females go. Males apparently do produce the same general pheromones between species when they are being aggressive and I assume in breeding mode.
> 
> It would not surprise me that a jack that was put in to guard cows would react badly to a hormonal male coming bellowing into the field and "attacking" the cows. My dad used to drive dump trucks and had a bull attack his truck because they spooked the cows, farmer had to come out and rescue the truck.



I think female hormones of any species can set off intact males of some others....when the sheep were in heat, I saw Blue trying to hump one of the ewes as the ram was also trying to get a chance.  Others have reported their LGDs doing the same thing.  No actual breeding going on, but Blue was definitely excited with all the hormones flying around the field.  

I was once trying to help my sister locate her pony's halter out in the field and a visiting bull kept following me, curling his lip and breathing heavy....followed me all over that field and I had to carry a big stick to keep him from coming closer.  When I exited the field, he paced the fence and bawled continually as long as I was standing outside the fence.    I knew then that I needed to lose some wt...when the local bulls think yer sexy, it's time to take a look in the mirror!


----------



## Sheepshape

Beekissed said:


> when the local bulls think yer sexy, it's time to take a look in the mirror!


Then you REALLY need to be worried😱


----------



## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> when the local bulls think yer sexy, it's time to take a look in the mirror!


Lol! I remember when I was a kid, we were visiting some friends of the family that had goats... well, apparently my mom is a very sexy goat... that buck peed all over her...


----------



## Beekissed

Well, true to the nature of my sheep, they are once again eating old, last year's weather exposed, rotten round bales rather than the new round bales I just hauled in for them.  Haven't touched the new bales, even though they the same hay from the same source down to a nub just a week or so ago.  

They are tearing into those old bales like there is treasure stored inside...I think the interior of those bales may be fermented just to their liking because they are eating the centers right out of them.  So much for having some mulch bales to roll out on the land as compost, huh?  

Pinkie Pie is growing like a weed and is sturdy as all get out now.  She's twice again the size she was when she arrived here.  That new food is some kind of wonderful!  From now on, any pups I get are going to have a bag of that to start out their lives.  

She's finally learning the feeding ritual, though it took her a really long time due to pure stubbornness.   The very first time she did it like she always knew how.   Every other time after that since then she's done everything BUT lie still and wait for her food, no matter how many corrections she got.  So, I stopped correcting her and just waited her out.  Fed Blue in front of her because he was having to wait too long for her to lie still....and that seemed to get through her fuzzy head what happens for dogs who lie still and wait properly.   Now she's doing it sooooo much better and for the first time this morning, she was lying down and waiting before Blue did. Success!!!  

NOTE:  Yes, I know Blues nails are too long, but I usually sit down on a dry spot in the paddock and trim them and we haven't had a dry spot for a very long time.  I'll get it done, no worries.


----------



## Baymule

Haha! Sentry runs ahead and sits, giving me an adoring look. Sheba refuses to sit, won’t make eye contact and I have to push hard on her butt to get her to sit. Yesterday was a breakthrough, I didn’t have to push hard. LOL I get it. Anatolians are stubborn, but brilliant smart.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Haha! Sentry runs ahead and sits, giving me an adoring look. Sheba refuses to sit, won’t make eye contact and I have to push hard on her butt to get her to sit. Yesterday was a breakthrough, I didn’t have to push hard. LOL I get it. Anatolians are stubborn, but brilliant smart.



Yes!  I'm fully convinced they are uncannily like humans in their intelligence and the way they process information.  Not like any dog or dog breed I've had before, though Labs came awfully close.  They too are super intelligent but their intelligence seems centered around just how much they can love and serve you, whereas Anatolian's smarts are centered around how to get around what you want so they can have their life the way they want it...but still love you dearly in the process.  On their terms.


----------



## Baymule

That's a pretty good description.


----------



## Beekissed

Another funny Blue story...this dog is pretty smart.  He's been chasing the neighbor's truck down the fence line ever since the neighbor got a new truck.  I don't like it but haven't had a chance to correct him on it.  Then that gradually morphed into him chasing alongside our vehicles when we come and go...I can tell he's bored and this is a good game, as he loves to run and rarely gets the chance to do so.   Well, yesterday he slipped under the bottom wire and ran along with the neighbor's truck almost out to the hard road.   He waited out there and came back along with the truck, but still an undesirable habit going on there.   

Pinky, all the while, runs along with him for a little ways but never gets out of sight of her sheep and she did not leave the fencing, but stayed with her sheep.   Good dog.  

This morning I found Blue outside the fencing again, which means he had repeated that behavior...but this time I was ready for him.  I scolded him for being out of the fence and told him he was a bad dog....he ducks his head when I say bad dog, so he knows perfectly well he's been scolded.   Had the shock collar all charged up and put it on him.  Blue is very collar wise to that thing, having been vibrated with it a couple of times...he HATES that vibration.   

So, the neighbor goes out again this morning and Blue doesn't leave the fence but he lopes a little along the fence and then looks back at the house.  By the time I got the transmitter in my hand and  gave him a little blip on the collar, the truck was long gone but he immediately returned to his former place in the paddock, head down and slinking.   Mom goes out later to the mailbox and Blue doesn't move a bit.   Pinky runs to the fence and starts to lope in the fence alongside the truck, but realizes Blue is not coming, so she stops and goes back to Blue's resting spot.  Good outcome.   

More trucks coming and going today, no Blue chasing alongside in the fence or out of the fence.  Smart dog.  He knows what he got in trouble for, knows why he's wearing the collar and will not repeat that behavior as long as he's wearing the collar.  I think he'll be wearing it for a while, be it charged up or not.  I want him to get out of the habit of running after vehicles and slipping out of the fencing...he hadn't done that for a long while, so not sure why he's doing it now.  Restless, I guess.  

Pinky, at 4 mo. of age, is fully bonded with her sheep...I don't see her trying to use them for playing or anything, though her playing with Blue has increased greatly since getting her legs strong once again.


----------



## Beekissed

Building fence on the big field we leased next door.  It's a bright and sunny day, but a tad chilly at 31* with a windchill of 12*.  Good weather for working!  Got insulators and posts put in on one whole side and one end and started on the other side these past few days.  Should be able to finish the posts and insulators for this field today.  Can't WAIT to get the sheep on that big field!


----------



## Beekissed

Well, Blue came out of the fence twice today.....it's a mystery as to why he's all the sudden leaving his duties.  Maybe because he feels the pup is big enough to guard now and he's free to range or is it just male hormones kicking in?  Who knows?   But, it earned him the tire drag of shame.  I felt sorry for him, but also couldn't stand the thought of losing him to the road or the neighbors...some shoot first, ask whose dog this is after. 

We'll see how he manages the tire drag in that brush filled paddock.  Poor Blue.


----------



## Baymule

Oh Blue! He just wants to chase the truck predators away! And for being so brave and chasing that bad ol' truck away, he gets the shock collar! Poor Blue!  

Our dogs chase trucks, but they are inside the fence. We are known as the people with the big white dogs. People who jog, walk or ride bikes bring their dogs, who run up at the fence to bark at my dogs. This incites them to a frenzy, since they can't reach the bad dog on the other side of the fence, they turn on each other and fight. 

We were outside last week, working on the front gate when a car came by, real slow. The rear window came down, their dog stuck it's head out and barked at my dogs! Of course my dogs chased alongside of the car, barking back. So these nincompoops drive their dog over to our place for some "fun" to bark at our dogs??? WTH?? 

I wrote the above yesterday, but my computer wasn't co-operating and it wouldn't post.

Is the fence not shocking Blue when he goes through it? Would extra strands of hot wire help? His male hormones may be kicking in. I got really mad at Trip because I couldn't keep him in ANY fence, he wanted to go romancing the neighborhood, so I had him neutered. Then it was his turn to be mad, he turned on the vet and techs, trying to bite them, he was a different dog for about a year, but finally returned to being the dog I knew and loved. I should have had him neutered sooner. Maybe extra strands of more powerful hot wire will help.


----------



## Beekissed

I haven't investigated yet, but Blue is currently lying outside the gate, sans tire drag.  Don't know how a dog gets a chained on tire drag off his body without losing his collar but I suppose I'll find out.  

Guess it's time for a tether setup.  Sigh.  We'll be buying a Sport Dog type fence to go around the acreage this week, but can't really put it in until we get that big field completed.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Oh Blue! He just wants to chase the truck predators away! And for being so brave and chasing that bad ol' truck away, he gets the shock collar! Poor Blue!
> 
> Our dogs chase trucks, but they are inside the fence. We are known as the people with the big white dogs. People who jog, walk or ride bikes bring their dogs, who run up at the fence to bark at my dogs. This incites them to a frenzy, since they can't reach the bad dog on the other side of the fence, they turn on each other and fight.
> 
> We were outside last week, working on the front gate when a car came by, real slow. The rear window came down, their dog stuck it's head out and barked at my dogs! Of course my dogs chased alongside of the car, barking back. So these nincompoops drive their dog over to our place for some "fun" to bark at our dogs??? WTH??
> 
> I wrote the above yesterday, but my computer wasn't co-operating and it wouldn't post.
> 
> Is the fence not shocking Blue when he goes through it? Would extra strands of hot wire help? His male hormones may be kicking in. I got really mad at Trip because I couldn't keep him in ANY fence, he wanted to go romancing the neighborhood, so I had him neutered. Then it was his turn to be mad, he turned on the vet and techs, trying to bite them, he was a different dog for about a year, but finally returned to being the dog I knew and loved. I should have had him neutered sooner. Maybe extra strands of more powerful hot wire will help.



Who does that???  This world is full of some real weird folks, isn't it?  

Blue and most any dog I've met, can time the pulses of the high tensile and slip under the fence in the seconds before the next pulse~Ben did it, Murphy did it and Blue can do it.  With the way our fencing is and how the land is, there's no way of putting a wire any lower than we have it currently.   It's 10 in. off the ground and even that runs into problems at times for being too low on this hilly, bumpy, brushy land.  There truly is no more powerful high tensile out there that we can afford...it's 12.5 gauge wire with 9K volts running through it, which would work if he didn't slip out quickly between the pulses.  We use a Cyclops low impedance charger, so it stays hot even if there has been grounded somewhere by a limb or something.  

This week we'll be buying an invisible fence for large acreages but we can't install it until we get that big field done.


----------



## Baymule

I guess my dogs are stupid. They hit the hot wire, yelp, run away from the monster and never want to try it again. But the difference is, we have a permanent fence with hot wire in front of it, so they can't run through it to freedom anyway.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I guess my dogs are stupid. They hit the hot wire, yelp, run away from the monster and never want to try it again. But the difference is, we have a permanent fence with hot wire in front of it, so they can't run through it to freedom anyway.


That makes a huge difference to have hot wire AND a physical barrier in place.  I wish we could have afforded good ol' fashioned sheep fencing with an offset of hot wire but couldn't. 

Blue is now on a soft tether and I ordered the Sport Dog fencing this evening.  It's a bad mamma jamma with 7 levels of correction and a rechargeable collar that has a battery life of up to 2 mo. 

I'm thinking that Blue is leaving the fence to smell the scent left behind by female foxes and coyotes coming into heat in our area...this is when they generally come into heat and mate, so the sudden departure from the fencing could lie somewhere in that reason. 

Shine has been separating herself the past few days and since we had oops breeding this summer, she could very well be due long before all the others.  She's been preggers longer, that's for sure.  The upshot is that we don't know exactly when and who got bred at that time but I'm thinking it was Shine and one of the ewe lambs by the name of Lola.   Both looked settled back then.  I hope she has twins this year but she doesn't look big enough to do so.


----------



## Beekissed

Walked Pinky on the same leash as Blue this morning and she did very well.  A little screaming and rolling around, getting in front of me, tangling herself around Blue, but pretty soon she got the hang of it.  I could tell Blue was thoroughly disgusted with her but I'm proud of him for holding back from giving her a correction.   

After I walked them around and around together, giving treats for sitting when I stopped, lots of praise while walking, then I walked her by herself.  She did perfectly the whole time, though keeping her head down like she was being beaten.  I gave her good loving and petting at the end of it, telling her what a good dog she was....I expect this will get easier from here on out.  At least, I hope she retains the lesson enough that it goes better next time...we'll see.  She's not the brightest match in the box, if ya know what I mean.       Excellent guardian, though, so I consider her a keeper.


----------



## Baymule

Sounds like the Blue “therapy” is working! Go Blue!


----------



## Beekissed

Guess what??  This morning I have a beautiful little black and white ram lamb, healthy as can be, following after Shine.  I'm hoping she has another...this one was just born and licked off.   She doesn't look big enough to have another but her udder is four times the size it was last year....if this is a single, he'll be eating like a king!  Got a pic or two but don't have time this morning to upload them.  

I'm glad Shine had a lamb before the rest of the flock, as she is teaching Pinky Pie about respectful distancing...and Pinky Pie seems to understand it.  She's giving Shine a wide berth.  When I approached, Pinky Pie was trying to get my attention and affection and Shine came after her, driving her away....LOVE her mothering instincts.  She didn't come after me at all and lets me handle her baby just fine but that dog was in the danger zone.  

So very happy it was born this morning, in 33* temps, instead of next week when we will be in the negative digits.


----------



## thistlebloom

That's great! Looking forward to some pictures. Shines a good mama!
We will be getting pretty frigid here too. It's been almost balmy for several weeks, I've been switching mental gears to gardening. It'll be rude switching back to winter mode 🤪


----------



## Baymule

Awww....... I can't wait to see a picture of the new arrival. Pinkie Pie is getting her education! 

I keep Sentry in the sheep barn at night. He is respectful of the new moms and babies. Sheba, on the other hand, wants to love the babies so bad! Last night, Aria was giving birth right up against a cow panel and Sheba was on the other side trying to lick the baby! Silly dog!

How many ewes do you have now? Are they all bred and expecting?


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Awww....... I can't wait to see a picture of the new arrival. Pinkie Pie is getting her education!
> 
> I keep Sentry in the sheep barn at night. He is respectful of the new moms and babies. Sheba, on the other hand, wants to love the babies so bad! Last night, Aria was giving birth right up against a cow panel and Sheba was on the other side trying to lick the baby! Silly dog!
> 
> How many ewes do you have now? Are they all bred and expecting?


I have 8 ewes, 6 of them are ewe lambs, and all are preggers, though Rose wasn't bred until much, much later than the group.   That leaves Shine lambing too early, Rose lambing too late and all the rest somewhere in between....yeah, we did a crap job of controlling breeding opportunities this year.  Most should be born at the end of April/first of May.   

Pinky Pie is doing an excellent job of watching over but maintaining distance.  Blue is tethered at the moment due to him ducking out of the fencing and chasing the neighbor's truck down the driveway, so I haven't gotten to see what he makes of the new lamb.   I let him have the cleanings, though, so he feels like he participated in some way.    

Pinky is now 5 mo. old and is growing like a weed.  I'm starting to see the dog she will become and I think she'll be strong and thicker overall than Blue.  She won't be as fast as him, that's for sure.  I'll try to get some good pics of her.


----------



## Beekissed

Not the greatest of pictures, as my camera is old and crappy and she kept moving around due to Pinky Pie dancing around by my leg, wanting my attention.  
















Pinky Pie at 5 mo. with super strong legs.  






Compared to PP at 8 wks, first full day on the farm.


----------



## thistlebloom

What a pretty little lamb he is! Pink is sure growing into herself. She's a good looking dog, nice big bone structure. I'm so glad she's working into such a great partner for you.


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> What a pretty little lamb he is! Pink is sure growing into herself. She's a good looking dog, nice big bone structure. I'm so glad she's working into such a great partner for you.


Me too!  She's been doing some behavior lately that I'm not liking....but to be fair, she saw Blue doing it first.  She's grabbing at the legs of a particular wether and trying to keep it from moving.  So much so that she's wounded him in three legs...not severely, but enough to break the skin and cause him to limp.   Hence the shock collar she's wearing, because I need to correct her at a distance...the only time I can catch her in the act.   This is the same behavior she saw Blue perform and SHE corrected him on it...now she is doing the same thing.   Not sure what either dog is trying to accomplish, as it's definitely not play behavior....it's like they are trying to prevent certain sheep from moving to a different area of the paddock.   While Blue doesn't cause injury, Pinky's teeth are tiny and needle sharp, so they are penetrating the skin and underlying tissues.   Not good and needs to stop...I can't imagine what she would do to a tender little lamb.


----------



## Beekissed

I know youins sheep people are likely used to lambs and all their cuteness, so I'll likely sound like a new grandma spewing all sorts of biased goo at the general public....but this new lamb is out of this world funny.  He's on his second day of life and he's climbing partial round bales and jumping off!  He's playing~or trying to~with any other animal he sees, though his mama then drives off any sheep or dog that tries to reciprocate.  He's a trouble maker in a little black and white package, making him easy to spot from 100 yds away....the approx. distance from the house.  

I've been watching him this morning and how much trouble his mama has been having keeping him from interacting with possibly dangerous things...it's hilarious!  I don't know that we've had a lamb that young to be that precocious before.  He's a hoot!


----------



## Baymule

Adorable lamb, love the markings on him! Gush all you want to, it's what we do! I have pages and pages of gushing over my lambs, so you just gush, brag and tell us all about your lambs! 

Pinkie Pie is growing into such a strong, beautiful dog. Adding maturity, which will take a little time, and she will be magnificent.


----------



## Beekissed

We are almost finished fencing in that big field next door and I'm getting more excited by the day.  We should, barring interruptions, get the fencing done tomorrow and possibly get the Sport Dog wire ran around the land tomorrow or the next day...more likely the next day.  

Here's some pics of that field from different views that will give you an idea of the lay of the land. 

This end borders our land and is as wide as the rest of the field but there's a section of woodland that juts into the field there on the left that makes the field look narrow....we like the woods being there as they have plenty of low growing brush for the sheep to eat.  Our land lies to the right of their field, right past that smaller field in the foreground right. 





This is the left side of the field as we face towards the main road out past that distant tree line.  You can see the brush line where we had to clear the brush back from the edge of the field for the fencing...that was all hugely overgrown autumn olive and some multiflora rose.    We coppiced it all so that it will grow back young and tender, more palatable for the sheep and put the fencing in behind that row of autumn olive tree stumps.  Did all of that with hand tools and chainsaw, as we have no tractor or brush hog type machinery here. 




Up at the top of that field and behind those large pines is the neighbor's house and they own the field.



This view is looking down from near their house towards our land....you can see our cabin just barely.  Those dark brown things are tarp covered round bales on pallets...just waiting for the sheep.  And Steve, our four wheeler....just named by my grandgirl.   




This view is from the top of the field but looking towards the road...fencing not tensioned yet. 






All in all it's a nicely rolling field without any really good graze in it, but more graze than we have on our land and we hope to develop it into a better pasture with the rotational grazing of the sheep.  It stays pretty moist most of the year, though that's largely due to the clay based soil. 

The fencing is low and very discreetly set back in the tree line, not marring the scenery much and should be low enough to allow deer to jump it easily...it's only 32 in. tall.  The bottom strand is 10 in. high and should let smaller wildlife flow through easily as well.  Eli does neat work on the fencing, the gates and bracing, so it's a nice looking job. 

In the spring I'll stain the gate posts with an oak stain and paint the bracing barn red to match our other fencing and gates, as well as matching the gates we are using for their field.  It should look pretty sharp in the end.  It will look even better with sheep grazing the field....it's been more than 20 yrs since that place had any stock on it and that was just a few horses.


----------



## farmerjan

Quite a project..... looking real nice.


----------



## Beekissed

Better pics of the black lamb....I sooooo love a black sheep!   














Pinky Pie with her shock collar that is as worthless as a flea collar....I've  had nothing but trouble with this Sport Dog ecollar, they sent me a new transmitter that was supposed to solve the issue but never did.  Fully charged, barely used, won't give a reliable signal of anything but muted beeps....sometimes it will send a vibration, sometime it won't and never gives a shock, no matter what mode or setting.  






Blue, currently tethered for leaving the fencing and chasing the neighbor's truck towards the highway.  We are working hard these next two days to get a system around the entire land to contain him to the fencing with an additional layer of shock value.   Can't afford to lose him and don't know why he started that all the sudden, which makes him unpredictable in his behavior.   He isn't much good on that tie out, that's for sure.   The sheep is July, our smallest ewe lamb...she has always loved climbing round bales, from the earliest age.  I think it makes her feel taller.  LOL


----------



## Baymule

That field is a HUGE asset to your grazing program! Awesome!


----------



## thistlebloom

He's a Border Collie ramling! Those are great markings, very distinctive.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> That field is a HUGE asset to your grazing program! Awesome!


I know!!!!  I keep thanking God every time I work in that field and I grow excited about the possibilities.  We have NO grass except in a few portions of the yard and orchard, so getting this 10 acre field with varied green stuff in it and encircled by good brush for sheep is like winning the lottery for us.  This will give us a chance to clean up the tree tops left by logging and get some hay bales rolled out on those poor dirt paddocks.  It will give them a chance to rest and grow something green maybe.


----------



## farmerjan

Great to get good grazing like that.  You have done alot to get it fenced and glad that it will be soon complete.  
The lamb's color is what we called "chromed up" ;  in cattle.  Very pretty... well, attractive/handsome since it is a ram lamb.  I love loud colored animals....


----------



## Baymule

That ram lamb is so pretty, you might get a good price selling him as a sire, providing he has the conformation to match his beauty as he grows. He is gorgeous!

Ewenique had a solid black ram lamb with a white tip on his tail. Too bad he is not a she! I have the prettiest, spottiest ram lambs that I have ever had! I may put them up for sale on Craigslist or something, just to see what happens. Several look pretty good now, I'll be watching them as they grow. Two of them are small, they won't make the cut. Eh, we'll see. 

Isn't this FUN?


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> That ram lamb is so pretty, you might get a good price selling him as a sire, providing he has the conformation to match his beauty as he grows. He is gorgeous!
> 
> Ewenique had a solid black ram lamb with a white tip on his tail. Too bad he is not a she! I have the prettiest, spottiest ram lambs that I have ever had! I may put them up for sale on Craigslist or something, just to see what happens. Several look pretty good now, I'll be watching them as they grow. Two of them are small, they won't make the cut. Eh, we'll see.
> 
> Isn't this FUN?


It is indeed!  I love being a shepherd more than any other kind of livestock I've raised, even horses.  There's just something about the sheep and the relationship with them that I am drawn to.  

Bay, isn't it always the really pretty ones that turn out to be rams?    I'd love to have spotted, speckled and vividly marked ewes in my flock but it seems it's always rams that have all the pretty markings.


----------



## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> Bay, isn't it always the really pretty ones that turn out to be rams?  I'd love to have spotted, speckled and vividly marked ewes in my flock but it seems it's always rams that have all the pretty markings.


There is a commercial sheep farmer that I follow on youtube, she has mostly white sheep, some speckles, but she randomly got a few black ram lambs with big white blazes that for some reason she fell in love with and named them all Billy or some variation on the name (one is Prince William). She FINALLY got a ewe lamb with the same coloration and named her Bella. None of those black and white sheep leave the property and luckily for her bottom line (since she is a meat sheep operation) they don't seem to be very dominant genetically as she has around 400 breeding ewes and probably 20-30 rams but only has about 5 Billies and 1 Bella.


----------



## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> There is a commercial sheep farmer that I follow on youtube, she has mostly white sheep, some speckles, but she randomly got a few black ram lambs with big white blazes that for some reason she fell in love with and named them all Billy or some variation on the name (one is Prince William). She FINALLY got a ewe lamb with the same coloration and named her Bella. None of those black and white sheep leave the property and luckily for her bottom line (since she is a meat sheep operation) they don't seem to be very dominant genetically as she has around 400 breeding ewes and probably 20-30 rams but only has about 5 Billies and 1 Bella.



I've often wished I had the time, space and money to dabble in developing a flock of all black Katahdins but I think that would take longer than I have on this Earth, for that simple reason...it's not a strong gene in Katahdins.  

Here's an interesting story, though....









						How a white ram and 37 white ewes produced a flock of entirely BLACK lambs
					

Farmers Sally and Jacob Du Toit have helped deliver 60 black lambs from their flock of white sheep in the past month at their smallholding near Royston, Herts.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


----------



## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> I've often wished I had the time, space and money to dabble in developing a flock of all black Katahdins but I think that would take longer than I have on this Earth, for that simple reason...it's not a strong gene in Katahdins.
> 
> Here's an interesting story, though....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How a white ram and 37 white ewes produced a flock of entirely BLACK lambs
> 
> 
> Farmers Sally and Jacob Du Toit have helped deliver 60 black lambs from their flock of white sheep in the past month at their smallholding near Royston, Herts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dailymail.co.uk


Oddly enough, she has wool sheep that she breeds year round and sells for meat... She loses money every time she shears them and has to deal with infertility in the summer due to heat (and she's in Canada, not somewhere hot), I don't get why she isn't breeding hair sheep instead.


----------



## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> Oddly enough, she has wool sheep that she breeds year round and sells for meat... She loses money every time she shears them and has to deal with infertility in the summer due to heat (and she's in Canada, not somewhere hot), I don't get why she isn't breeding hair sheep instead.


I wonder the same thing about so many who keep sheep....graining, shearing, trimming hooves, hormones for breeding out of season, deworming, etc. all seem to affect the bottom line when it comes to farming, when a person can manage a Katahdin flock in such a way that none of that is necessary, so once you get the flock developed the way you want, it's pure profit from then on.


----------



## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> I wonder the same thing about so many who keep sheep....graining, shearing, trimming hooves, hormones for breeding out of season, deworming, etc. all seem to affect the bottom line when it comes to farming, when a person can manage a Katahdin flock in such a way that none of that is necessary, so once you get the flock developed the way you want, it's pure profit from then on.


I want Jacobs, but I want them primarily for the wool and helping out a rare breed is a bonus. They are also a "primitive breed" meaning that they are more browsy like hair sheep, and they still breed and lamb easily without assistance. But, if I were going to be doing meat sheep and wanting to breed year round I would totally go for a hair sheep breed.


----------



## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> I want Jacobs, but I want them primarily for the wool and helping out a rare breed is a bonus. They are also a "primitive breed" meaning that they are more browsy like hair sheep, and they still breed and lamb easily without assistance. But, if I were going to be doing meat sheep and wanting to breed year round I would totally go for a hair sheep breed.


I love the looks of the Jacobs as well and much of what I've learned about the breed.


----------



## Beekissed

The big field is hereby fenced!  Tested, working right, cut off switch working, done.  Just need to string dog wire around it and the rest of the fencing on our land and we'll be able to move stock over there.  

You have NO idea how happy this makes us!!!!  Eli and I have worked hard on that thing, pushing to get it done as fast as we can, as we had hoped to have it done back in November!!!  That's how far behind we are around here.


----------



## farmerjan

CONGRATS !!!!!!!


----------



## Mini Horses

Always feels good to get a project done.  Especially one with the benefits of new pasture for the animals.


----------



## Baymule

*WHOOP! WHOOP! WHOOP!
*


----------



## Baymule

Beekissed said:


> Bay, isn't it always the really pretty ones that turn out to be rams?    I'd love to have spotted, speckled and vividly marked ewes in my flock but it seems it's always rams that have all the pretty markings.



Ain't that the truth?? I have the prettiest, spottiest, black and white, and not one, but THREE tri-colored beauties and every danged one of them are RAMS!!!!


----------



## Beekissed

Hauled 4 sheep to Mt. Hope in OH this evening for the sales tomorrow.  One ram lamb, 3 wethers.  I love Katahdins....they traveled well, hopped out of the trailer and walked a few feet and calmly looked around.  No yelling, no panic, just a casual inspection of the new surroundings.  One guy, a quiet building, the easiest, most calm transfer of stock I've ever done. 

It was an easy trip, a gorgeous sunset, and we found an singularly excellent Amish restaurant right next to the auction~no mask needed, employees were not wearing masks, actual salt and pepper shakers on the table, a buffet!, the food was excellent, the prices were too and the coconut cream pie will definitely be on the menu in Heaven.   

The only bad thing was someone siphoned our gas while we were in there eating and I was almost home before I realized we were sitting below E with the light on...had to backtrack to town to gas up.  Prayed all the way there to get there without running out.  God said YES and we made it.    

It was a good day....got a lot done on the dog fencing and tomorrow should have it up and running and be able to move the flock and dogs to the big field.  Finally!!!!


----------



## Mini Horses

Shame on gas but, sounds like all else went well.


----------



## Baymule

That does sound like a nice afternoon except for the gas. Hope you get a good price on the sheep.


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## thistlebloom

Sounds wonderful all around. Isn't it nice to have some semblance of normality and sanity out there? Except for the fool that stole your gas.  
 James 1:2
Hope your profits are good from your sheep sales.


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Sounds wonderful all around. Isn't it nice to have some semblance of normality and sanity out there? Except for the fool that stole your gas.
> James 1:2
> Hope your profits are good from your sheep sales.



Yes, it was!  I was gushing over it and the waitress acted like she had heard that frequently.  It would be interesting if they did a study on how many of the Amish have taken sick or died of Covid, wouldn't it?  They aren't taking part in all this restrictions nonsense and living their lives as per normal.  Eli and I were contemplating how nice it would be to live in whole communities that were not giving up their freedom to be what they want to be and live normally....bliss!  

Even the gas getting stolen seemed to remind me of times past....it has been since the 80s since I had gas siphoned out of a car and didn't know people were even still doing such a thing, especially where they could so easily get caught.   Though it was annoying, it seemed like it was supposed to happen and God didn't let us get stranded over it, and that too was a blessing!  

I too hope profits are good....they can't be worse than what we get locally, where sheep are hardly ever sold at the sales and when they are, they go for bupkiss.  Mt. Hope has the best pricing around, which is why so many people are willing to travel so far to take their livestock there.  We've decided next time we go we'll make a little trip of it and stay overnight in a hotel, relax and partake of the wonderful free atmosphere and homemade foods.   That restaurant had made everything from scratch and off the farm~even the salad dressings were homemade, the cheese was made locally and hand grated, and everything was perfectly seasoned...didn't have to touch a salt shaker once.   Tender, flavorful, juicy and at a good price with good service.....heavenly!


----------



## Beekissed

I didn't have a working camera to record today's joyful entry into the big field, but Eli took a few pics on his phone....I'll try to move a few here.   It was glorious!!!!  Big dark clouds moved in this evening, making skies very dramatic and showers and sun in turns as we opened gates, called the sheep and dogs and the joyful exit from the old paddock like the Israelites leaving Egypt!  

Eli drove the ATV and sheep wagon down in front while I walked the stock down with my staff and container of dog biscuits.   Rose and Shine led the procession, walking beside me all the way, while the younger girls and little Rocket ran alongside, up front, then back behind, trying to get a feel for where we were headed.  When they saw the gate open into the big field they knew and the pace picked up.  We all entered the field with gladness and the sheep immediately spread out, noses to the grass and calling one another as they ate. 

The dogs' tails were curled and riding high as they trotted like kings surveying their domain, sniffing for animal sign, looking things over and stopping to play now and again.   Pinky Pie is nearly as big as Blue and you don't realize it until you see them trotting side by side down a wide open space....just beautiful to behold!   Rocket stotting about, kicking up his heels and exploring all the dips and mounds...just beautiful!  

Fresh water, refilled minerals, fresh hay, fresh soils and wide open spaces, wooded areas for shelter, browse aplenty and short grasses....but still, it's greenery!  Electric fence functioning, dog fencing working, collar set and on the dog, so all is secure.  

All that hard work came to fruition today as we watched them grazing across the field and the dogs running through wide spaces and over the soft grass, while the wind whipped the warm rain around our heads.   Deep blue skies behind the whole scene and my heart leaping with joy over it all....I praise God for it all!!!! 







There was a partial bale, just teetering on the pallet, so I pushed it over and it exposed some lovely green hay.  It also will be a nice place for the sheep and dogs to bed down if they wish.  






Not the best of pics but still gives one the space available.  We won't start doing rotational grazing there until the lambs are born and all is well with them, then I'll move the flock clear to the other end of the field and put up temp fencing to keep them on each section for around 10 days.  Later on we'll cross fence so I have more control over the spaces. 






And one last pic of a log we sawed this past winter that expresses how I feel today......my heart is overflowing with joy!!!


----------



## Baymule

For going out to eat, you sure picked the best place in the state. How wonderful! When you eat out, you want it to be as good or better than what you cook at home, better yet, something you don’t make. Sounds like the Amish restaurant fit the bill!

What space! And grass! And browse! The Blessings just keep coming. All your hard work is paying off.


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## thistlebloom

I think I'm as  happy as you ! Reading your description put me right there in the field with you and your sheep. Beautiful day!


----------



## Beekissed

Took Dooley down when I went to feed the dogs this morning in the big field.  Dooley and Blue played so hard and long that both were soaking wet, slobbered down and panting with muscles all atremble.  I'm so glad they like one another.  Pinky preferred to get lots of lovin' in the hay while we both enjoyed the sunshine and watching the sheep mowing the field.   The sheep are VERY happy, the dogs seem VERY happy and Blue learned his new containment system overnight, so all are secure and at ease in the big field.  

Dooley hasn't been worked with all winter and has been on a zip line, obsessing over the chickens that pass by, so I was pleasantly surprised that he retained all the commands I already taught him and he performed all but "sit" perfectly....he's still too jittery to sit perfectly still if I bend over to give him a pat, he has to squirm a lot each time.  I've learned to just give him verbal praise, as he just can't handle physical affection without spazzing out.  He did perfect and lasting downs, walk ups, come through, walked perfectly on the leash, sat when I stopped, etc.   I was impressed, as he has had pretty minimal training on all of that.  I'm hoping teaching him the rest of the stuff comes as easily and lasts as long.  

I'll be throwing up a small round pen in the field so I can work Dooley as often as I get time to do so and also will be scheduling him for a neutering, now that his balls have finally dropped.  He was real interested in riding little Pinky Pie, so getting those gone will free his mind for more important things.  

I'm loving the move to the big field and intend to get some chairs down there so I can sit and watch the bucolic peacefulness of it whenever I want.  Once all the lambs are born, we'll start putting up temp lines down there to put the sheep through rotations on that field.


----------



## Baymule

That is great about Dooley. He is going to be one heck of a dog as he matures. He will definitely be a wonderful asset to you.


----------



## Beekissed

I was thinking that the sheep and dogs would be a little nervous in that big strange place and it would take some adjustment time for them to get used to being that distance from the house and us.   Nope....in fact, they all seem much more relaxed in their new setting.  I haven't heard the dogs barking once, when I know there is much more game movement around and through that field than in our paddocks....that's the coyote pack's favorite place to hunt.  

When we drive by the sheep are spread out, grazing, and the dogs are either meandering about sniffing or just lying up on a high spot, sleeping or watching.  They no longer bark at vehicles driving by the land, nor run along the fence line....they'll get up and see if it's a familiar car, then sit down and watch it go by.  

The sheep no longer crowd me at the gate nor try to get the dog's food...too busy grazing.   

Maybe because this field has no obstructions to their sight or movement, maybe because the sheep seem more relaxed, but I'm thanking God for the good transition for both parties.  

Tomorrow I place warning signs on the gates into that field, stating LGDs on duty, only enter with an escort.  The neighbors who own the field are animal lovers and I'm hoping they don't try to feed or befriend the dogs.


----------



## thistlebloom

That's great to hear. What a perfect addition to your other grazing land. 
Does this mean Blue isn't chasing cars now?


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> That's great to hear. What a perfect addition to your other grazing land.
> Does this mean Blue isn't chasing cars now?


Yep....that's what it means.  He's no longer bored silly, I guess, with all that space in which to guard his flock.  The dog fence also prevents him from getting near the fence itself, so keeping him back may take the whole fun of the chase out of it as well.


----------



## Kusanar

Nothing worse than a car chasing dog. There is a big black Doberman looking bitch out near my farm that will actually bolt in front of cars and try to stop them, she actually caught me the other day, got dead in front of my car and wouldn't move and there wasn't room to go around her. Luckily a man (her owner?) came out and chased her out of the road long enough for me to get moving.


----------



## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> Nothing worse than a car chasing dog. There is a big black Doberman looking bitch out near my farm that will actually bolt in front of cars and try to stop them, she actually caught me the other day, got dead in front of my car and wouldn't move and there wasn't room to go around her. Luckily a man (her owner?) came out and chased her out of the road long enough for me to get moving.


Agreed....hate that!  Blue was chasing the neighbor's truck but staying on his side of the fence.  Then he was slipping out of the fence to chase it.  Now he just sits and watches it roll on by....LOVE it!


----------



## Beekissed

Pics of the sheep and dogs in the big field this morning....

Rocket is just over a month old but he's showing some good size against those ewe lambs we bought last year.  






When we were cutting down brush to put in the fence, Eli had wanted to take these young pines out....but I knew we would need those.  The sheep are really browsing on those today.  











The dogs.....Pinky is really growing and at 6 mo. old she's gaining on Blue, who will be 2 yrs old in May.  








Waiting for permission to eat....soon that will be a thing of the past when I get their jump pen/continuous feeder setup done.


----------



## Beekissed

Now that it's  not likely we'll have sustained nights with freezing weather, I set up our watering system on our field wagon once again, but increased the cooler size to hold much more water.  I took apart the water trough float cover and bleached out the trough, the float and all the connections.  Feels good to get the watering back onto the cart itself once again. 

We bought a water tank we can carry on the 4 wheeler that will pump the water into the cooler for me, running off the battery of the ATV.  Just haven't built a rack for it for the 4 wheeler.   That will make water hauling and delivery MUCH easier

Cool water, always clean and fresh, flowing into the trough each time an animal drinks....can't beat that!  When it's really hot, I put frozen 2 ltr bottles down into the cooler to keep the water even cooler.  The thick walls of the insulated cooler keeps out the growth of algae due to the sun and keeps the water cooler than ambient temps. 





With the float uncovered for cleaning.  This trough was given to me and is a goat feeder...we modified it into a water trough.  I'd like to add a plug in the bottom soon so I can clean it out better. 





Just screws right over the threads on the drain of the new cooler...no adapters needed!  I was tickled about that.  The more adapters you have, the more chance you'll have a slow drip at those connections.









My mineral feeder at the moment....originally designed to hang in a tree, I am using it on the cart right now...seems to be working to keep the minerals dry and the sheep can't waste too much mineral by fighting over it.  One sheep at a time on this one. 





More pics of the flock loving that field...and it makes my heart glad to see them with heads down on that grass.  They haven't had grass all winter long, so this is like heaven for them, even if it's short and of poor quality.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have fresh hay out but the sheep are evidently getting enough fresh growth that they aren't touching the hay.  Great pictures!


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## Baymule

Your flock is growing! Rocket is a flashy boy, he's beautiful. I love your cart, you always show such ingenuity. You can take a whole lot of nothing and create something useful and functional. You are amazing.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> We have fresh hay out but the sheep are evidently getting enough fresh growth that they aren't touching the hay.  Great pictures!


Mine aren't eating hay either....grass must be coming in quicker than I thought.  I'm so glad!


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Your flock is growing! Rocket is a flashy boy, he's beautiful. I love your cart, you always show such ingenuity. You can take a whole lot of nothing and create something useful and functional. You are amazing.


Not even a little bit....I come up with the ideas, Eli works out the kinks of my ideas so they actually work.  He's amazing...I'm just a dreamer.    

Rocket is very pretty....I am going to hate to see him go when it's time to sell him.  He gives my flock some flash and style.


----------



## Baymule

I KNOW!!!!! I had the flashiest, prettiest spotty lambs this year--ALL BOYS. The 6 ewe lambs I am keeping are all white. of course they are. 

Yes, you are amazing.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I KNOW!!!!! I had the flashiest, prettiest spotty lambs this year--ALL BOYS. The 6 ewe lambs I am keeping are all white. of course they are.
> 
> Yes, you are amazing.


Awww, Bay....yer gonna make me cry.     I just know if I have any other pretty lambs this season they'll be males also.  I'd love to have a colorful flock but Shine's the only one that really stands out in a crowd.


----------



## Beekissed

Blue has been helping me lately to correct Pinky's recent want to run back and forth in front of the 4 wheeler as I'm driving into the field.  Two different days he has driven her back from the 4 wheeler as soon as she started doing that.  I'm so appreciative of that dog's intelligence and intuitiveness!   Best $50 I've ever spent!  

Both dogs waiting patiently by the gate....they've learned it won't open if they aren't calm.  






And waiting patiently for permission to eat.....they can't eat until they are lying calmly.   Pretty soon they won't be doing that, as we are making them a jump pen and continuous feeder.   



And lounging with the sheep....Pinky is allowed to brush her body all over them, but not so much poor Blue.  Only Rose will allow Blue to buddy up with her that close and he's nothing but polite to them all.


----------



## Baymule

You have your working team. Pinky and Blue are your partners in sheep. I am happy for you, it has been a journey to find those missing pieces to the daily puzzle of life. And there they are.


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## Beekissed

Had the vet out to the farm to give health check ups on dogs and sheep....she and her vet techs gave them all a clean bill of health, though she did mention their reflexes were BAD.  









This vet tech just wanted to pet Blue, as all the other animals scared her too much....really scared of the sheep!  Blue is the all time favorite for the girls, as he maintains a calm, submissive demeanor to them all.  He's always been so gentle and sweet, even as a much younger pup....the girls love that.  They get frustrated with wiggly dogs that get in their faces.


----------



## Baymule

What a precious gift you provide for your "vet techs"!! They will always carry the wonderful memories spent at Grandma's farm and all the wisdom you teach them.  It looks like a beautiful day for all, lots of fun and love.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> What a precious gift you provide for your "vet techs"!! They will always carry the wonderful memories spent at Grandma's farm and all the wisdom you teach them.  It looks like a beautiful day for all, lots of fun and love.


It was Aliza's birthday the day previously, but we were celebrating it on Sunday.  She loves to "farm" and always wants to "vet" the animals.  She has a pink doctoring kit she takes around.  After we caught Shine and held her (quite the rodeo, mind you)and she had examined her, gave her a shot, etc., she stood up and said, "Now....I'll have to examine ALL these sheep."     

I told her the next time we ran them through the handling system, I'd bring her out for giving them all check ups.   She's priceless, that girl.....always keeps us laughing with her imagination.  

Bay, we had a wonderful day and finished it up around a fire, looking at the stars and eating soup outdoors in the chilly night air.  I'm so thankful that we have this place and can do these things with the kids.  My grandma had a farm and that's the earliest memory I had of knowing I wanted to be a farmer too.  She had Angus cattle, some pigs and chickens.


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## Baymule

What a lovely day and then soup around the campfire. Totally awesome. 

I have a ewe that loves attention and comes up for the little girls to give hugs. She loves scratches and will paw at me with a dainty hoof when I stop scratching her. Her name is Ewenique and she can stay until she dies. Watching those little girls hug her and love her, well, there is no dollar amount that could buy her. She would love Aliza's doctoring!


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> What a lovely day and then soup around the campfire. Totally awesome.
> 
> I have a ewe that loves attention and comes up for the little girls to give hugs. She loves scratches and will paw at me with a dainty hoof when I stop scratching her. Her name is Ewenique and she can stay until she dies. Watching those little girls hug her and love her, well, there is no dollar amount that could buy her. She would love Aliza's doctoring!


I would LOVE to have a ewe like that....the girls need that.  I'm guessing the only way I'd get that out of this flock is to raise a bottle baby, which I don't really want to do.   

These sheep just crowd the girls if they have dog biscuits or they think they have them, then they duck away when the girls try to pet them.  

I'd love to have a Ewenique just for myself too....I like petting a sheep whenever I can.  I love the way these hair sheep smell and I like their personalities.    

Grandma's house....it's where memories are made, huh?


----------



## Beekissed

Dooley, the herding pup, has been sold to a much bigger outfit, with cattle and sheep.  He will be on his way to a trainer in KY ASAP.   Those folks have the money it takes to realize his full potential and I'm so very pleased for him.  Hurt to let him go, though.   It will be a better life for him than I could provide and he'll finally get to learn how to do what he wants to do so badly.  

So, down to two dogs now and no one to guard the chickens.  Dooley wasn't exactly guarding them, but his constant movement on the zip line up by the coop did afford some level of deterrent for predators.   

Now it's up to God to guard them and provide a replacement if He wills it to be so.


----------



## WyoLiving

Sorry to hear that Dooley didn't work out for you.
 
Good to hear that he is on his way to a better situation.


----------



## Beekissed

WyoLiving said:


> Sorry to hear that Dooley didn't work out for you.
> 
> Good to hear that he is on his way to a better situation.


I hadn't realized just how much he was working those birds from his zip line until he was gone.  Instant calm in the flock and it was so very quiet....birds just strolling around at ease.  He was harassing them so much that the flock felt like they were being hunted, even though he couldn't chase them down...constant squawking and running when he would lunge at them, bark at them, try to herd them from a distance.  

I hated to see him leave but am so glad he's gone, if that makes sense.   I value the peace of all the animals here, so when just one is out of harmony, it affects the whole farm....and that affects MY peace too.  I like a quiet farm and I like the animals to feel safe, at peace.


----------



## Baymule

I couldn't agree more. One disruptive animal influences all. I want my animals to be happy in their lives. I sold a real nice mare one time because she kept beating up on my gelding. She made him miserable, so she had to go.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I couldn't agree more. One disruptive animal influences all. I want my animals to be happy in their lives. I sold a real nice mare one time because she kept beating up on my gelding. She made him miserable, so she had to go.


Will be selling a whole group of pullets and a cockerel for the first time off my land(usually I just kill and can, but don't have the time right now) and just for that purpose.  The pullets are hatchery stock and have the temerity to peck my heels as I walk to the coop to feed!  THAT'S never happened to me before. And the cockerel crows much, much too often and is too rough in his mating.   They are all going to an animal swap this coming Saturday and good riddance.  I like to farm happy.  

The only suitable replacement I could find for guarding the chickens around here, after an exhaustive search, is a Goldendoodle puppy.  Will be picking him up after coming back from our annual fishing trip.  Not my favorite nor best choice but it's as close as I could come to a Lab or Lab mix dog in this area.  Should be intelligent, easy to train, have a suitable prey drive and also be good with the grandkids.   I hope.


----------



## Beekissed

Took the Ol' Bat down to the big field while I fed dogs....the dogs love that old lady!  Especially Blue...and she likes him right back.  She's 87 now and just starting to slow down a bit







.


----------



## Baymule

That is precious. Dogs know who likes them and they know who needs them. I know your Mom enjoyed all the attention she got from the dogs.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> That is precious. Dogs know who likes them and they know who needs them. I know your Mom enjoyed all the attention she got from the dogs.


She's not a dog lover, by any means....but, she does tend to like the ones that behave well.  That's the mother of nine coming out in her.    I am the same way....those that behave well earn a special place in my heart.  Blue is a very well behaved dog (that's why the truck chasing episodes were so puzzling...not in his character at all), very polite around all people and animals.  

Pinky, on the other hand, is just a huge fluffy ball of sweetness that just wants to be petted no matter what and can't stand for Blue to have any attention.  She's a drama queen....but I love her for her sweet nature.  Makes her good with the sheep.


----------



## Beekissed

1963: Tonight: Sheep Recognition Experiment | #OnThisDay 1963: Tonight conducted a fascinating "sheep recognition" experiment. Why not play along at home? Try not to fall asleep, mind... | By BBC Archive | Facebook
					

687K views, 9.3K likes, 1.6K loves, 1.3K comments, 10K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from BBC Archive: #OnThisDay 1963: Tonight conducted a fascinating "sheep recognition" experiment. Why not play...




					fb.watch


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## Baymule

I suffered through the circle of doom to watch that LOL. I am impressed by that shepherd's ability to really KNOW his sheep.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I suffered through the circle of doom to watch that LOL. I am impressed by that shepherd's ability to really KNOW his sheep.


Me too!!!  I can't even begin to know my sheep that well....I have 8 sheep that don't all look alike and I struggle to tell the difference between at least two of them....and they have different colored ear tags/numbers.    For the life of me, all those sheep looked alike except some slight differences in horns.


----------



## Baymule

I knew a man that had a herd of about 50 black angus. He called them "his girls", walked among them daily and knew each one of them by their face. 

I'm going to have my own challenge this year. the 6 ewe lambs that I am keeping are all white. This year's lambs are the friendliest I've ever had. This is also the first year that I have creep fed the lambs. That may have something to do with it. When I feed them, I sit on a upturned milk crate by the creep feeder and when they have full bellies, they are curious about me, they sniff and nibble on my clothes. Or it may be feeding Tiny and Panda their bottles that has made the lambs so friendly towards me. Tiny and Panda both love to grab the zipper tab on my jacket and unzip it. Tiny loves to mouth my shoe strings and has chewed the plastic tabs off the ends. Other lambs nibble on my clothing and I reach out to scratch them. Adorable. I can sit out there with them for an hour. 

I know one thing, I've been missing the boat by not creep feeding. Getting that early boost in growth is making a difference.


----------



## farmerjan

In your case @Baymule creep feeding is a plus.  You do not have the grass to keep them in a high rate of gain.  And you recognize that.  And yes, it definitely makes for friendlier calmer animals overall.  That is one reason that the calves that come off the first calf heifers I have at the "nurse cow pasture" are friendlier and easier to get in because I do creep feed a little.  I do it for the purpose of easier to catch and work, not because they need it there. 
 But "creeping", does boost growth and will put a finish on the lambs faster.  The trick is to figure out when it is economically sound to do so.... in your case, and @Mike CHS , to get the lambs to market at a better time.  It didn't hurt that you had the 2 bottle lambs that gave the others reason to not see you as the GIANT bad scary guy too.... 
And once the other ones are gone, you will be able to better utilize the grass you have until you manage to find some others that you want to add to the flock.  And as you said, it will help to flush the ewes to get them to cycle and breed back "out of season" better.


----------



## Baymule

10 total sheep loaded up and going to auction this morning. It’s bittersweet. 6 ewes, 2 with lambs and one ewe lamb, 3 months old. I’m sad and excited at the same time. My son came up yesterday to spend the weekend, he got a kick out of the lambs. He’ll help me sort out ram lambs to wean this afternoon. Y’all wish me luck. This money will get stashed for registered ewes purchase, as many as what I get for 10 sheep culls will allow me to buy.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> 10 total sheep loaded up and going to auction this morning. It’s bittersweet. 6 ewes, 2 with lambs and one ewe lamb, 3 months old. I’m sad and excited at the same time. My son came up yesterday to spend the weekend, he got a kick out of the lambs. He’ll help me sort out ram lambs to wean this afternoon. Y’all wish me luck. This money will get stashed for registered ewes purchase, as many as what I get for 10 sheep culls will allow me to buy.


Bay, I sure  hope you get good prices!!!!  We too are spending more money on better stock this season, if it can be found.


----------



## Baymule

Prices weren’t what they were the first of the year, but we got good prices in comparison to what was run through the ring.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Prices weren’t what they were the first of the year, but we got good prices in comparison to what was run through the ring.


I'm so glad!!!  Next time...think about livestock swaps at TSC.  I know I've had my mind awakened to that market after today.  Folks with lots of cash there and will pay anything you ask for an animal.  I sold 5 chickens and could have asked way more than I did and got the money.  Sold out in a half hour, 5 chickens for $84 cash money.     I was wishing I had priced them higher, I can tell you that!  

I had never went to such an event before and certainly had never sold any of my chickens before...just couldn't bear the thought of what kinds of homes they would be headed to.  If I think about it tonight I'll still be cringing over it, but they had to go and it was nice to have the money for them.  

But....to get to the sheep.  There was a single Katahdin ram lamb there, bottle fed, a beautiful milk chocolate color and they were leading it around on a leash.  They said he was 7 wks old, but Bay, he was the size Rocket was when he was first BORN!  Asking $200 and I'm sure they got it because the lady who bought the last of my birds was also wanting that lamb.  Didn't blink an eye at the price either.   A light went on in my head.....could be another handy market if a person had some spare lambs standing around.  I could have taken Rocket and asked $300 for him and got it, no joke.

A person could have taken a pen of bottle lambs and gotten top prices for them there, what with all the folks with stimulus cash in their hands and nowhere to spend it, apparently.


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## Baymule

I’m so jealous! Our TSC doesn’t have animal swaps. I sure wish they did! There is a small animal auction twice a month in Canton, about 30 minutes away, that we are going to investigate. We’ve heard that prices there can run higher. They sell everything from chickens to sheep and goats. I think they draw more of the “Awwww.......she’s so CUTE!” crowd. LOL 

Congratulations on the chicken sales, that’s good money for chickens you didn’t want. Chickens have become important livestock since Covid shortages bared the grocery store shelves last year. Haha! Wake up people! Your food supply is only 3days worth! Then stores run out and have nothing. Does your TSC have these events regularly? It might become a good market for you, 

It’s been nice knowing you, Rocket, but TSC is calling!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I’m so jealous! Our TSC doesn’t have animal swaps. I sure wish they did! There is a small animal auction twice a month in Canton, about 30 minutes away, that we are going to investigate. We’ve heard that prices there can run higher. They sell everything from chickens to sheep and goats. I think they draw more of the “Awwww.......she’s so CUTE!” crowd. LOL
> 
> Congratulations on the chicken sales, that’s good money for chickens you didn’t want. Chickens have become important livestock since Covid shortages bared the grocery store shelves last year. Haha! Wake up people! Your food supply is only 3days worth! Then stores run out and have nothing. Does your TSC have these events regularly? It might become a good market for you,
> 
> It’s been nice knowing you, Rocket, but TSC is calling!



TSCs around the state regularly have swaps of this kind....this is the first one I've known about in my local TSC, so I was interested right away.  Not just to take something to sell, but just to see what happens at these swaps.  I'd  never buy anything at these swaps, though.....too much chance of bringing home diseases to the farm.   

And, no, Rocket won't be sold at my state's swaps....too, too  many ignorant people out there about sheep in general but especially about hair sheep to let one of these sheep fall into the wrong hands.  Most people thought that little lamb was a goat....couldn't have looked less like a goat, but even the woman that was wanting to buy him thought he was a goat(she was wearing high heels and a mini skirt).  

But, I figure you have a more enlightened crowd in your state, Bay, due to your state being more of an agricultural based state than mine....likely to be much more sheep people, more hair sheep people, more farm people in general?   That guy that bought Dooley runs 200 head of woolly breeds and he had never even HEARD of Katahdin sheep....thought Rose was a goat.  To be fair, Rose does look like a goat, but when is the last time you ever saw a goat with a tail down to her heels?  Longest tail I've ever seen on a hair sheep, even. 

Agriculture is a dying thing in my state, with most farms falling by the wayside as family are not interested in working that hard.  Sheep, in particular, have also disappeared....I can drive clear across the state and maybe see 2 flocks of sheep, only woolly breeds, along the way, and those are the farms that have always had them.   This state's mountains make it a great place to raise sheep, as they can make the most use of the hilly terrain, but no one is doing it.


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## Baymule

We have lots of goats and sheep here. They are becoming more and more popular as more people buy small acreage.


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## Mike CHS

I don't know how the growers are changing across the nation but our state is having some of the best growth ever.  That might have something to do with active Associations and a lot of interaction on social media.  We sold herd sire lambs that I would not have bought at that age but the buyers came to us based on word of mouth recommendations.  Not bragging but our stock has gained a reputation in the short time that we have been doing it that it makes it fun to sell them and the buyers stay in contact.


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## Beekissed

@Mike CHS, ya got any spare Ringos you want to sell this season?   Eli and I have decided we really need to get a mature ram with lambs we can see of his on the farm and we'll likely have to travel to get a good one.


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## Baymule

@Mike CHS what age were the lambs you sold for future flock sires?


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## Mike CHS

Baymule said:


> @Mike CHS what age were the lambs you sold for future flock sires?



I answered you PM.  For some reason I tried to post earlier and the post just hung there.


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## Beekissed

Got a new chicken dog this evening.  Time will tell if he works out but he seems like a nice dog, just never really got to be a dog much in his life.  Black Lab/GS mix, neutered male, 5.5 yrs old.  I sure hope Blue and Pinky Pie likes him.


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## Baymule

That dog will have a great life on the farm.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> That dog will have a great life on the farm.


I sure hope so!  I took him on his first leash walk this morning to the back of the land, worked on sitting when I stop, walking on a loose leash...hard to teach an old dog new tricks.  Finally did get him to keep lying down when I put the feed pan down and being given permission to approach the feed.  Didn't take as long as I imagined...he had the idea right off the bat, but he just needed reinforcement.  

Brushed him and cleaned out his eye...I have a feeling that's why they were getting rid of him, so they wouldn't have to vet him....both of his owners were nurses, you'd think they'd do some home vetting?  He has an injury to his cornea, so is tearing and has light sensitivity, but no blindness there.  I cleaned it well and applied antibiotic ointment in there...if it doesn't improve over time, I'll take him to the vet.  Brushed him down well and you should have seen the fur and dandruff fly!   

We'll work on recall today and I'll keep working on training him on obedience and bonding a good bit before we train on chickens.


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## Beekissed

Second lamb of the season and likely the only one we'll have this spring besides Rocket...none of the other ewes seem to have gotten preggers besides Shine and Lola.  

Came home from a 4 day fishing trip and was rolling up the drive, counting heads in the field next to it and came up one ewe and two dogs short.  Stopped the car and investigated...as soon as the dogs heard our voices they started to bark from an area we could not see easily but a whole field away from the rest of the flock.   We were missing Lola, so figured she had lambed up in that neck of the field....but the dogs came running and so did Lola, baaing all the while.  

As she got closer we spied a black looking item hanging slightly out of her hoohoo and Eli said, "Oh, crap, she's prolapsed and it's dead tissue" and I thought the same at first glance but a second glance revealed tiny black hooves and a black nose sticking out.  She had run to us about 200 yds like that!    

So, I grabbed her leg until Eli could grab her head, then I proceeded to investigate....elbows were back, so did a gentle push on the nose while pulling one leg and that started some progress, the head started to want to come as soon as I had the one leg pulled into position, but I prevented it until I had the other leg pulled forward as well.  After that the lamb came quickly.  Don't know how long she had been stalled in her delivery, but the dogs had licked her and the lamb clean and she was dry back there, the lamb was golden when it came out, so some meconium going on there.  

Have a healthy ewe lamb on the ground now and am thanking God for His impeccable timing!!!!  I figured she would lamb while we were away and during that cold snap with the snow and winds, but God provided and had us come home at just the right moment.  I praise Him!!!!  

Pretty proud of these young dogs of mine, staying with the ewe while she was isolated and in labor, then barking to let us know where she was.   I'm also pretty pleased with Lola that she's so peanut butter dog biscuit trained that we didn't have to traipse all the way up field to find her and that she came to US.  Can't get any better than that!


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## Baymule

I love a happy story. Lola knew you would help her and she ran to you. That is the humbling trust Gods creatures put in us. What a beautiful experience, it has to make you swell with love for Lola. And your dogs! They knew she was distressed and did their best to comfort her. Then they barked the alert to you. How awesome.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I love a happy story. Lola knew you would help her and she ran to you. That is the humbling trust Gods creatures put in us. What a beautiful experience, it has to make you swell with love for Lola. And your dogs! They knew she was distressed and did their best to comfort her. Then they barked the alert to you. How awesome.


Can't fault a ewe that will bring her problems right to the gate so you don't have to walk the field, huh?  I think it was more a case of wanting a peanut butter dog biscuit than knowing I could help her...she's obsessed with those biscuits, even more so than the older gals.      She's a keeper, either way!


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## Beekissed

Checked on the new mother and lamb this morning and found they had traveled quite a bit down the field and were near the rest of the flock but still quite distant.  Blue had chewed threw his tie out in the night and hadn't harmed the lamb, so it's all good.   Had tied him up due to him getting too close and too excited about licking the lamb but by the time he got off that tether, the lamb was fully licked and I'm hoping she had expelled her placenta....hoping that Blue didn't tug on it and break it off inside her.  

Lamb is spry and running quite fast beside her mama, so nothing bad going on there.  Lola is being a good mother, so no worries there either.  Will watch her closely for any signs she didn't clean out well.


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## Beekissed

The two dogs are sticking like glue to the new mother and lamb and she is still remaining separate from the rest of the flock.   They aren't bothering the lamb but they are moving real close to them as they travel, one on either side of the pair.  I find that very endearing but I could just be looking at that through rose colored glasses....they could just be waiting for her to drop something tasty out her rearend again!


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## Baymule

It’s remarkable that Pinkie is so serious and not wanting to play. If Sheba could get to newborns, she would lick them and mom would reject that dog slobbered freaky THING!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> It’s remarkable that Pinkie is so serious and not wanting to play. If Sheba could get to newborns, she would lick them and mom would reject that dog slobbered freaky THING!


I think it really came from her being with them since 2 mo. of age and from Shine being the first to lamb, thus teaching Pinky Pie the proper manners around lambs.  Blue didn't have those good moments early on in his life, so still wants to get in there way too close.  Pinky lays back and watches from a respectful distance all the while.   Could be a girl thing vs a boy thing too, maybe?  Boys more excited by the pregnancy hormones and girls not so much?


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## Beekissed

Got a new ram today at a good price.  He's a really laid back, docile guy, 1 yr old, and I like a lot about his size and conformation.  He's not perfect, by any means, but you don't get perfect for $200....for that amount, you get acceptable, if you are blessed.  His lamb is a deep red with white markings with a really good top line and body length, so I'm hoping he can impart the same to my flock. 

His pasterns and rump line aren't super pleasing to me~a tad weak in both areas~ but I like the rest of him and he's 100% better than rams we've had thus far and those that we have produced.  He's bigger, his hair coat is better, his personality is better, he's taller and he's more evenly balanced than those we've had previously, so I'm very thankful to get him.  He came from a flock that is participating in my state's program for improving parasite resistance in Katahdins, so I'm tickled pink to get him.  

Will get some good pics this evening or tomorrow and share.

Going after another ram, ewe and twin lambs on Friday, so we'll finally have our two rams for separating our flock into breeding groups.  This other ram is also 1 yr old, the ewe is the same and comes with her twin lambs, a ram and a ewe lamb.


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## Baymule

A new ram, then another new ram, plus a ewe and her twins! Waiting on pictures!!!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> A new ram, then another new ram, plus a ewe and her twins! Waiting on pictures!!!


Was going to get a few when we moved him to the ram paddock this evening but it was quite the rodeo and then he disappeared up into the woods.   Will have to bide my time.


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## Baymule

Amazing how animals don’t cooperate with us....... ram rodeo!


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Amazing how animals don’t cooperate with us....... ram rodeo!


He skipped out last night, jumped fence and was last spotted moving past my neighbor's turkey blind, heading into thousands of acres of uninhabited land owned by a pulp and paper company.   As the movie says, "There they be monsters." so it's unlikely we'll recover him unless it's God's will that we do.   The coyote pack, bobcats or the black bear can make short work of him out there.  

I've prayed and committed him to the Lord and that's all I can do.  Have looked high and low, called to no avail.  Now He's in the Lord's hands.


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## Baymule

That sucks. Maybe for new arrivals you should pen them up to acclimate them to you and their new surroundings. Maybe he wasn’t the greatest, but you paid money for him and your money will likely feed coyotes. Stupid durned sheep. 
I’m really sorry for you, El Stupido the ram and the whole situation.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> That sucks. Maybe for new arrivals you should pen them up to acclimate them to you and their new surroundings. Maybe he wasn’t the greatest, but you paid money for him and your money will likely feed coyotes. Stupid durned sheep.
> I’m really sorry for you, El Stupido the ram and the whole situation.


No worries, Bay....God brought him back to us!  A mean ol' man from down the road found him in his field fighting with his scrubby little woolly head ram and penned him up for us~his ram comes up to this one's belly.   Funny that God would use THAT particular man to recover our ram for us, as he is as evil as they come....I'm very surprised he didn't just shoot him and drag him to the back of his land, honestly.   It's a God thing, I tell ya!  

I'm praising God tonight for the recovery of this ram...he is soft tethered, firmly, right now until we can get him companions on Friday.   After they have acclimated with one another and this place, we'll let him off the tether on a day we are all here and can monitor him, maybe lead him a bit next to the fence so he gets a negative experience from the fence....if he jumps fence again, he'll be taking a trip to the auction. 

I'm guessing he didn't jump the fence to the big field to be with our gals because the dogs didn't let him...they don't know him from Adam, so likely just ran him off.


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## Baymule

Whoop! God is good and throughout the Bible, used some very unlikely people to achieve results. I’m sure you were thunder struck by this particular man returning your ram. Glad he is back. So what’cha gonna name him? Surely something to highlight his jumping abilities!
Basketball (bounce bounce)
Leaping Larry
Jumping Jack
Wings
Ram Runner


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Whoop! God is good and throughout the Bible, used some very unlikely people to achieve results. I’m sure you were thunder struck by this particular man returning your ram. Glad he is back. So what’cha gonna name him? Surely something to highlight his jumping abilities!
> Basketball (bounce bounce)
> Leaping Larry
> Jumping Jack
> Wings
> Ram Runner


I had already named him Ezra but am now thinking Esau would be more appropriate....Esau sold his birthright for a bowl of stew and God didn't like him much, plus he was covered with red hair, like this ram.  But...he really is just a big ol sweety and I didn't want to give him a bad name, so he'll likely stay Ezra.  Ezra means "helper" in Hebrew and I'm hoping he's going to help us develop some better, bigger stock here.  

We'll see how he wears on us and see if he earns a different name as time goes along.  I really like this guy...I think he was just very lonely, having never been away from a flock before.   I caught up Rocket and put him in with him, but left Ezra tethered so they can get accustomed to one another.  Rocket cozied right up to him and he to Rocket, so it could be what was needed to keep him in the fencing.  We'll see.  Getting another ram and ewe, along with her twin lambs, on Friday.  

Will take some pics of this boy today.


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## wolf

Beekissed said:


> ...and loving it!  Getting back into sheep in a small way and need a place to journal about it all.
> 
> Starting again with Katahdins, my fave breed, and will keep a very small herd of one full time ram, a wether and a few ewes until I see what my pasture can support.  Won't have the wether until my first lambs, so for now it will be three.
> 
> Doing all this on a very low budget, as that's the way I love to live.  No fences yet but I live in a unique situation that sort of creates fencing around our meadow for now...surrounded by forest, no near neighbors and none with any livestock for over a mile.  One LGD that will not likely bond with the sheep at all until we have lambs...I can see him wanting to nurture those.  Right now these two old biddies I bought would rather stomp him into the ground rather than bond.  They've never been worked with much by humans and never had a LGD at all..they had a llama.
> 
> So, will be working on fences, have put up a temporary penning situation until I can build a permanent sheep barn of sorts.  Will likely be a pole shed situation, as we have plenty of trees on the land for use.  Only three acres of grass/pasture right now and would like to just keep that much, though we have 20 acres in total here.
> 
> Have collected free enormous pallets for use in fencing....six large stacks of them.  These have 3x3 and 4x4 framing and are 10-12 ft. in length.  Were used to move metal sheeting.  Will put these back into the woods to give the sheep plenty of browse along with their pasture...we have a lot of stuff they love to eat in those woods~honeysuckle, multiflora rose, greenbrier, saplings and evergreens of all sorts.  Then we'll fence the pasture side of each paddock with regular woven wire sheep fencing with wooden posts harvested here on the land.
> 
> Hope to milk these few ewes if possible, just enough for Mom and I to use for making cheese and such.  Both ewes have passable udders, nice and even, small but well placed teats...not huge udders but we'll see what the ram can add to the mix~his dam has a huge udder and regularly feeds twins and triplets with ease.  Could be I'll be able to breed upwards with him.
> 
> These ewes were from a flock someone was getting out of...no longer wanted to do sheep, was switching to horses.  Supposedly these sheep were from strains of Katahdins bred by a fellow in OH who worked with OU on the improvement program but eventually got out of sheep altogether.
> 
> I picked out the two most likely to succeed, though I still felt like they were a tad small for Katahdins~both short and short bodied.  Both had just weaned lambs, both had twins but the elder had also nursed and weaned another bum lamb along with her twins.  I liked that and felt she may come in handy, though she's already an old lady in sheep years at 7 yrs of age.  The other is 3.
> 
> View attachment 65579
> 
> Shine, 3 yrs, is on the left and Rose, 7 yrs, is on the right.  They were both about 2-2.5 conditioning upon arrival but are starting to fill out a little on good graze and browse.  I should have them where I need them to be by Nov. breeding.
> View attachment 65580
> So, will try to record successes and failures here so I can learn as I go.  Will only be using grains for training purposes, would really like to keep them on grass based nutrition as much as possible.
> 
> Just starting to get the feel of sheep again and remembering how much I love sheep.  I hope to get to the place where I can use them for milk, meat and for keeping the meadow mowed, but also for the bond between sheep and shepherd.  I really love that part of it.
> 
> My grandgirls are loving my having sheep also and I can't wait until spring when they get to experience the lambs.
> 
> So far I have square bales of first cut hay but will be getting a couple round bales of second cut here in a week or so.  Will set them up on a self feeding style, using cattle panel placed tight against the hay to prevent too much waste.
> 
> Experimenting around with some nipple waterers retrofitted to insulated drink coolers so I can keep water cool and fresh in the summer but try to use an aquarium heater in them this winter as a heated waterer...don't know if that will work, but it's worth a shot.  Already had the coolers on hand and the fittings are cheap.  Since all water has to be carried and comes from a well, I'm interested in better watering solutions than buckets.


Cool! I live in Virginia in driving distance from WV. I had sold a bunch, and only kept one ram and two ewes. Yes, Katahdins. This Spring both ewes had triplets. The elder ewe suprised me with a set of Painted rams - some wild colored boys - two red, one black. They look like Pinto horses. The younger ewe had a red ewe, a white ewe, and a black ram. I'm hoping someone would like a young ram later this year, that can throw a little Splash o' Color into their flock, cause I sure can't keep five rams! 😱


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## Beekissed

wolf said:


> Cool! I live in Virginia in driving distance from WV. I had sold a bunch, and only kept one ram and two ewes. Yes, Katahdins. This Spring both ewes had triplets. The elder ewe suprised me with a set of Painted rams - some wild colored boys - two red, one black. They look like Pinto horses. The younger ewe had a red ewe, a white ewe, and a black ram. I'm hoping someone would like a young ram later this year, that can throw a little Splash o' Color into their flock, cause I sure can't keep five rams! 😱


Wowza!!!  I wish MY ewes would do triplets!  I'd be content if they even did twins....I've only had one lamb twins and she's an oldster.  Those are very pretty lambs....but, once again, the prettiest ones are boys.  Just not fair.


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## Beekissed

New ram and newly weaned Rocket have been very quiet and content today, so that seems to have worked.


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## Baymule

Ezra just needed a friend.


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## Baymule

wolf said:


> Cool! I live in Virginia in driving distance from WV. I had sold a bunch, and only kept one ram and two ewes. Yes, Katahdins. This Spring both ewes had triplets. The elder ewe suprised me with a set of Painted rams - some wild colored boys - two red, one black. They look like Pinto horses. The younger ewe had a red ewe, a white ewe, and a black ram. I'm hoping someone would like a young ram later this year, that can throw a little Splash o' Color into their flock, cause I sure can't keep five rams! 😱


Those are some pretty lambs! My Katahdin lambs were all spotty, had 3 tri color! Solid black, black and white spotted....All boys! The 7 keeper ewe lambs are of course, white.


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## wolf

Beekissed said:


> Wowza!!!  I wish MY ewes would do triplets!  I'd be content if they even did twins....I've only had one lamb twins and she's an oldster.  Those are very pretty lambs....but, once again, the prettiest ones are boys.  Just not fair.


Wasn't like I was expecting it! 🤣🤣🤣 I'd just sold 5 last year to ease my feed-bill - and now have 6 to replace the 5! When Mutt had the first triplets, I figured Sunrise would have twins... but she surprised me! Told my feed-store man "Gee, I only had two ewes! And they _both _had triplets! It's like putting a single quarter in each of two slot-machines and hitting the jackpot both times! What's the chance of _that?"_


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## Beekissed

Can't get any good pics of that new ram due to him moving so much now that he's tethered.....soon as I come in the paddock, he starts to try to get away from me.  I'm the bad guy right now.  So, will just post pics I took when he first got here....not good ones but at least he's standing still.


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## Baymule

He does have a nice long loin. He’s a nice looking guy and will be an asset to your flock. Hope you can get him calmed down. Mine are all spoiled brats. Treats go a long way to making you look real good, but you already know that.

When we have people and/or kids visiting and they want to experience the sheep, I give them whole corn to hand feed. I put kids in a chair so they don’t get run down. LOL My sheep will do anything for corn.

Maybe a little corn in a pan while you sit near and let him get used to you would work. Your ewes settled down nicely for you, now work your magic on him.


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## wolf

I always like the mane these guys grow! With Woolies you don't notice it much cause it gets lost in the curls - but with Hairies it stands out! Some get almost lion-like! I've had three rams go through to breed my girls - first one was so awful, I couldn't wait for him to get the job done and freeze him! Second one was good to start, and would mind his manners when we were face to face, but would sneak around like a cat behind the shed or a tree and hit me from behind. I ended up belling him cause he was so stealthy - and he went to freezer-camp. This third one is a lot more like my eldest ewe in temperment (so far) - I've gotten enough experience with the previous two to be able to read the thoughts going through his skull - and assert a "Don't _go _there, Twink!" as I hold my bamboo-pole horizontally to give the impression I'm wider than I am. Sometimes he'll try to paw at my legs like I'm a ewe, and I refuse to allow that, either! No matter what - don't screw with me Bub! But I feel good crossing the pasture and doing chores with him about with his family. He'll come watch out of curiosity, then get bored and go back to his girls and lambs. He's over a year old and so far so good. Yeah, feed-bucket time they're ALL sweet!


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## Baymule

wolf said:


> I always like the mane these guys grow! With Woolies you don't notice it much cause it gets lost in the curls - but with Hairies it stands out! Some get almost lion-like! I've had three rams go through to breed my girls - first one was so awful, I couldn't wait for him to get the job done and freeze him! Second one was good to start, and would mind his manners when we were face to face, but would sneak around like a cat behind the shed or a tree and hit me from behind. I ended up belling him cause he was so stealthy - and he went to freezer-camp. This third one is a lot more like my eldest ewe in temperment (so far) - I've gotten enough experience with the previous two to be able to read the thoughts going through his skull - and assert a "Don't _go _there, Twink!" as I hold my bamboo-pole horizontally to give the impression I'm wider than I am. Sometimes he'll try to paw at my legs like I'm a ewe, and I refuse to allow that, either! No matter what - don't screw with me Bub! But I feel good crossing the pasture and doing chores with him about with his family. He'll come watch out of curiosity, then get bored and go back to his girls and lambs. He's over a year old and so far so good. Yeah, feed-bucket time they're ALL sweet!


@wolf i am Blessed with a Katahdin ram, Ringo, who is such a calm, laid back sweetheart. Even my little granddaughters can give him hugs.  He runs to me if I have a brush in my hand, he is spoiled rotten. Every great once in awhile, he may barely push me, a quick slap, finger shaking in his face and a scolding puts him back in his place. His lambs have his same attitude. I had rams like you described and their names were Ramburger. LOL


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## Beekissed

wolf said:


> I always like the mane these guys grow! With Woolies you don't notice it much cause it gets lost in the curls - but with Hairies it stands out! Some get almost lion-like! I've had three rams go through to breed my girls - first one was so awful, I couldn't wait for him to get the job done and freeze him! Second one was good to start, and would mind his manners when we were face to face, but would sneak around like a cat behind the shed or a tree and hit me from behind. I ended up belling him cause he was so stealthy - and he went to freezer-camp. This third one is a lot more like my eldest ewe in temperment (so far) - I've gotten enough experience with the previous two to be able to read the thoughts going through his skull - and assert a "Don't _go _there, Twink!" as I hold my bamboo-pole horizontally to give the impression I'm wider than I am. Sometimes he'll try to paw at my legs like I'm a ewe, and I refuse to allow that, either! No matter what - don't screw with me Bub! But I feel good crossing the pasture and doing chores with him about with his family. He'll come watch out of curiosity, then get bored and go back to his girls and lambs. He's over a year old and so far so good. Yeah, feed-bucket time they're ALL sweet!


The lady I got him from had trimmed his mane due to burrs, so it's likely he'd have a more flowing mane....I expect if he lives long enough to grow it back, he'll get a nice one.  

This one doesn't seem to make any fight at us, no matter how we've had to manhandle him to get him into the trailer, or into the next field/paddock.  I think he'll be a nice ram and pass that along to his offspring, much like Ringo, but only time will tell.  Both of these new rams will be wearing a bell, as I often forget about things as I'm working along...with my back turned to a ram that could cripple me.   I'm hoping the bells will at least give me a chance to jump out of the way, but I need to learn to always keep my sheep stick in the ram paddock as well.  

I won't tolerate mean, so any overt stalking of the food bringer will result in a lot of meat in the jar.


----------



## wolf

Beekissed said:


> The lady I got him from had trimmed his mane due to burrs, so it's likely he'd have a more flowing mane....I expect if he lives long enough to grow it back, he'll get a nice one.
> 
> This one doesn't seem to make any fight at us, no matter how we've had to manhandle him to get him into the trailer, or into the next field/paddock.  I think he'll be a nice ram and pass that along to his offspring, much like Ringo, but only time will tell.  Both of these new rams will be wearing a bell, as I often forget about things as I'm working along...with my back turned to a ram that could cripple me.   I'm hoping the bells will at least give me a chance to jump out of the way, but I need to learn to always keep my sheep stick in the ram paddock as well.
> 
> I won't tolerate mean, so any overt stalking of the food bringer will result in a lot of meat in the jar.


I once tested an app with "bedtime stories" for adults, and the narrator was talking about lavender-fields one was passing by and t of the sheeps' bells being so sothng


Beekissed said:


> The lady I got him from had trimmed his mane due to burrs, so it's likely he'd have a more flowing mane....I expect if he lives long enough to grow it back, he'll get a nice one.
> 
> This one doesn't seem to make any fight at us, no matter how we've had to manhandle him to get him into the trailer, or into the next field/paddock.  I think he'll be a nice ram and pass that along to his offspring, much like Ringo, but only time will tell.  Both of these new rams will be wearing a bell, as I often forget about things as I'm working along...with my back turned to a ram that could cripple me.   I'm hoping the bells will at least give me a chance to jump out of the way, but I need to learn to always keep my sheep stick in the ram paddock as well.
> 
> I won't tolerate mean, so any overt stalking of the food bringer will result in a lot of meat in the jar.


I once tested an app with "bedtime stories" for adults, and the narrator spoke of passing lavender-fields and the sound of the sheeps' bells being so soothing... I said "Soothing? Hell! That puts me on high-alert, wondering where that SOB is coming at me from!" Was the total opposite from putting me to sleep! 🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Beekissed

wolf said:


> I once tested an app with "bedtime stories" for adults, and the narrator was talking about lavender-fields one was passing by and t of the sheeps' bells being so sothng
> 
> I once tested an app with "bedtime stories" for adults, and the narrator spoke of passing lavender-fields and the sound of the sheeps' bells being so soothing... I said "Soothing? Hell! That puts me on high-alert, wondering where that SOB is coming at me from!" Was the total opposite from putting me to sleep! 🤣🤣🤣


That would be the same for me!  🤣


----------



## Baymule

Bee a mean Dorper ram I had was scared of a flapping plastic grocery bag. It was easy to keep him on his toes. I chased him flapping a bag and yelling at him. That made him wary, but he still snuck up behind me and rammed me a few times. Wish I had thought of the collar and bell! He went to freezer camp.


----------



## Beekissed

Got a black ram on Friday but he didn't mesh well with the other ram or our high tensile fencing, so we hauled him a couple hours away to trade for a lamb ram from a lady I've bought rams from before.  She got some fresh blood that will stay in her standard fencing, I got a good ram lamb in trade and neither of us had to spend any money.  Eli chose a 2 mo. old creamy looking ram lamb, out of a set of twins, with speckled points and a long, balanced body.  We hope he develops fine.  

The other ram has settled down in the ram paddock but is still VERY wary of us since we manhandled him into and out of trailers and such.  He's such a big boy compared to all the other sheep we've had or even seen of this breed.  Like a cow lying down there in the clover.  

With the black ram we got a year old ewe with twin lambs, male and female, of a month old.  Took some moving and grooving to get all these different sheep acclimated to each other and to the dogs on a pasture based system....we are still learning and making stupid mistakes in that regard.  I'll not tell the saga of all of that, as it would take pages.  Suffice to say we've been chasing a lot of sheep, tying up both sheep and dogs, penning up sheep in the field shelter, etc.   Right now we have the new ram lamb tethered in the ram paddock after a not so merry frolic all the way down to the big field.  

He's the only animal remaining tied or penned at this moment.   I think Eli would have shot several animals this weekend if they all weren't so expensive to replace.    

Pics to follow soon.


----------



## Baymule

Ram swap. Everybody’s happy. I have a mental picture of sheep escaping, y’all chasing, wild sheep round up!    How many sheep do you have now?


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Ram swap. Everybody’s happy. I have a mental picture of sheep escaping, y’all chasing, wild sheep round up!    How many sheep do you have now?


You picture it exactly right....but add us being fat people and it makes it all the more comical.  Fat people, rounding up really quick and strong sheep.  So funny it hurts.  

We now have one adult (1 yr old) ram, 3 ram lambs, 9 ewes, 2 ewe lambs for a grand total of 15 sheep on the land.  Here are some pics of new arrivals but please forgive the poor pics...this new camera of mine is horrible on zooming.  Lose all clarity when I do that.

The next two pics are Little Bit, Lola's ewe lamb.  She's a week and a half old.  









This is the new ewe, a 1 yr old with her first lambs, a male and female.  Selkie, Dodge, and Idgie, respectively.  These lambs are a month old. 




The black lamb is a ram, the spotted grey is the female.  They were sired by an all black ram. 






Pinky Pie is 7 mo. old now and doing a GREAT job with the sheep.  Even the new sheep trusts her around more than Blue.  She's a sheep whisperer! 




Today's swap subject, Otis, a 2 mo. old ram lamb.  Swapped him for that 1 yr old black that we bought along with the ewe and twins.  They all came from up near Cleveland, OH~3 hrs from us~ and this boy was 2 hrs east of us, so we've done a bit of traveling these last two days.  He's got his mouth open in this pic, so he looks misshapen in the face. 




And then there is Ezra, a 1 yr old ram, which has now been dubbed "Big Red", for obvious reasons.  He's the biggest Katahdin ram I've ever stood next to, but very sweet and easy to handle when he isn't scared out of his wits by being chased by us and loaded onto trailers. 




We call him the wall o' meat and the little ram, Otis, is the "tube o' meat" until he gets his full size and we'll see if he makes "wall" status.


----------



## Baymule

Look at all that color! Love the spots! Little Bit is adorable. The new ewe with twins, all 3 are great additions to the flock.

Pinkie Pie is growing into being a big girl!

Otis has a good top line and a nice rounded butt! You did good on the swap!

Ezra. He is huge. Wall ‘o Meat is right! What do you think he weighs? He looks good all over and I love his color.

You have made some good purchases and trade. Nice, Bee, real nice.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Look at all that color! Love the spots! Little Bit is adorable. The new ewe with twins, all 3 are great additions to the flock.
> 
> Pinkie Pie is growing into being a big girl!
> 
> Otis has a good top line and a nice rounded butt! You did good on the swap!
> 
> Ezra. He is huge. Wall ‘o Meat is right! What do you think he weighs? He looks good all over and I love his color.
> 
> You have made some good purchases and trade. Nice, Bee, real nice.


If I had to guess on that wt, I'd say he goes a good 225 but I'm a terrible guesser...not below 200, for sure.  I know our 32 in. tall high tensile hits him mid chest and he just jounces when he runs, like a cow.  His hooves are twice the size of that black ram's were and they are the same age.  He made that guy look like a ram lamb.

I feel so blessed to have found this ram and for the price we paid!!!  $200!!!  His pasterns are good, he's thick in all the right places and he's got a good, docile personality, while also sporting a true hair coat, like Rose.  More like horse hair than sheep's hair/wool.


----------



## Baymule

You are kinda ram heavy for the number of ewes you have, but i am sure you have a plan. I like Ezra, he is one handsome boy and an excellent sire for your flock.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> You are kinda ram heavy for the number of ewes you have, but i am sure you have a plan. I like Ezra, he is one handsome boy and an excellent sire for your flock.


Most of those boys will be going to market when they are big enough.  Will just have the two for breeding/companionship with one another.


----------



## wolf

I saw you


Baymule said:


> Bee a mean Dorper ram I had was scared of a flapping plastic grocery bag. It was easy to keep him on his toes. I chased him flapping a bag and yelling at him. That made him wary, but he still snuck up behind me and rammed me a few times. Wish I had thought of the collar and bell! He went to freezer camp.


 say that once, and decided my "flat diaper" pocket rag would work good. I yanked that whire rag out, swung it over my head in a circle - and I swear that Twinkle thought I'd pulled an Eagle outta my pocket and was hnting sheep!


----------



## Beekissed

Big Red has settled down in his ram paddock and I finally let him up into the brushy portion of it...and yesterday he appeared with a limp to his front leg and a small puncture wound to that shoulder.  Unfortunately I can't get a hand on him to examine it, though I have lured him into eating out of my hand, with the peanut butter dog biscuits...those things must be GOOD!  

I'll likely loop a rope and try to slip it over his head the next time he comes for a biscuit, as he's too strong for me to grasp his dog collar and hold him.  A rope gives me distance and leverage with my own weight behind it if he runs.   I'd really like to get a look at that wound...doesn't seem inflamed nor are flies blowing it, but he's limping all the same, so it must have went deeply enough to hit muscle.  

He'll be breeding in June, so I'd like to get him healed up prior to that...it's coming up quickly!


----------



## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> Big Red has settled down in his ram paddock and I finally let him up into the brushy portion of it...and yesterday he appeared with a limp to his front leg and a small puncture wound to that shoulder.


Big guy probably had the wise idea to roll or lay on a stick...


----------



## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> Big guy probably had the wise idea to roll or lay on a stick...


That paddock also has tree tops in it from logging, so lots of pointy, dead limbs sticking out in the areas where they are browsing, right at his shoulder height.  I figure he got stobbed on one of those.  Can't wait to get hold of him and see for myself.


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## Baymule

Hope it’s not serious. Maybe a cow panel pen in your pastures to feed sheep In would be a help when you need to catch one. Oh, but cow panels cost money and I know you better than to expect you to pay money to construct a pen. If anybody around there has a sawmill, you could get the sawmill slats and use them. Or pallets or whatever you come upon.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Hope it’s not serious. Maybe a cow panel pen in your pastures to feed sheep In would be a help when you need to catch one. Oh, but cow panels cost money and I know you better than to expect you to pay money to construct a pen. If anybody around there has a sawmill, you could get the sawmill slats and use them. Or pallets or whatever you come upon.


Currently building a catch pen and loading chute with these big skid pallets....as we type!   I occasionally use money on things but not if I can get it free instead!


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## Baymule

I knew it! LOL LOL


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## Beekissed

I caught him up with the use of the dog biscuits.  There's no wound there, just a grease spot.  Checked his entire hoof and there's  no wound, swelling or inflammation of any kind to the gland there nor the hooves themselves.  I can find no wound, swelling or painful area at all on that limb.   

I noticed one of the ram lambs is also limping a bit on one of his front legs and the brain started to kick in....I think they are foundered!  There's an over abundance of clover to the ratio of grass in that paddock and I think they are getting too rich a diet there.  I was hoping eating the brush would counteract that richness but then the brush they are eating is likely high in protein as well, being autumn olive and multiflora rose~26% and 16% protein, respectively.  

They are not bloated looking at all, but what's the likelihood of a large ram limping on a front leg and a few days later, a 2 mo. old ram lamb limping in the same way?   Might have to rotate those guys into a crappier paddock or move them onto the back of that paddock and out of the clover growing mostly in the front of the paddock.  

I'll also offer some baking soda and see if they sample it.


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## Baymule

I always offer my sheep baking soda when I let them at the clover. They lick it up like candy, your boys probably will too. As the clover grows and blooms, they aren’t so interested in it.


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## Mini Horses

Low quality hay or straw before going out on pasture?  With baking soda!   😁   Any willow leaves?   Aspirin like for comfort.


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## Beekissed

Mini Horses said:


> Low quality hay or straw before going out on pasture?  With baking soda!   😁   Any willow leaves?   Aspirin like for comfort.


They live on pasture, so no "going out" for these guys.    Alas, no willow leaves!  We are going to give them some nasty old hay in that paddock...they seem to LOVE that stuff and it does help even out their guts.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I always offer my sheep baking soda when I let them at the clover. They lick it up like candy, your boys probably will too. As the clover grows and blooms, they aren’t so interested in it.


I put some out for them and will see how much they've sampled it in the morning.  I'll get an old manky bale of hay in there too, clearing off the outside shell and letting them have the middle that isn't so nasty.  They should sample it enough to balance their rumen.   The gals down in the big field are still sampling round bales in this manner.


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## Baymule

My ewe lambs are so dumb. They are in the side pasture that includes the backyard, where Paris can watch over them. She is happy to have work to do, besides a chicken tractor of poopy Cornish Cross chickens. LOL The granddaughters playhouse is in the side pasture. Do the ewe lambs go in it to get out of the rain? No! They stay as close to the sheep barn as they can get, out in the pounding rain. They are looking white and pretty from all the showers they are getting. But the dummies yell at me to come rescue them and they are unhappy at being out in the storms. Yesterday I moved their feed pan in the playhouse. They scarfed it down and skeedaddled out of there! Dummies. Before we took ram lambs to auction, they were in the side pasture and they happily took shelter in the playhouse.


----------



## Mini Horses

Poor hay seems to attract....stuff we would not buy with intent to feed!!!   I scrounged  7 large bales from a clean the barn deal last fall.  Brought home and dropped over fence into garden area.  It was for mulch this year.  Darned mini mares were in there to eat any weeds, now I have almost  no mulch!       Not like they don't get good hay.....I was floored when I noticed it.  Even sometimes leaving the good stuff.   It wasn't moldy or such.  Had to close that area back off.


----------



## Beekissed

Mini Horses said:


> Poor hay seems to attract....stuff we would not buy with intent to feed!!!   I scrounged  7 large bales from a clean the barn deal last fall.  Brought home and dropped over fence into garden area.  It was for mulch this year.  Darned mini mares were in there to eat any weeds, now I have almost  no mulch!       Not like they don't get good hay.....I was floored when I noticed it.  Even sometimes leaving the good stuff.   It wasn't moldy or such.  Had to close that area back off.


I found this out many years ago about the sheep and the neighbor's cattle.  Bought the most beautiful hay ever for those sheep that year...it was a GREAT year for haying.   They ignored it, trampled it, wasted it.  Then I found they had been eating up under a tarp of stacked hay and the neighbor's cows had also broken down our fence to get to that stack of square bales......those bales were* 40 YEARS OLD *and were meant for my garden in the spring.  We had cleaned out an old barn for an old farmer and those bales were~in my eyes~ absolutely void of any nutrition whatsoever and so moldy, dusty that I sneezed all throughout the loading and unloading of them.   

This year I bought beautiful round bales for $30 a bale, horse quality hay.   They never touched them while in the paddock with the $5 mulch round bales, rained on for 2 seasons and moldering into sodden lumps of ferment.  Ate those mulch bales like candy and got hugely fat on them!   

What I'm learning is that they actually prefer the moldy, nasty hay to the "good stuff" and I'm a fool for buying the good stuff.   And all those people adamantly asserting that moldy hay will KILL YOUR SHEEP.  Guess my sheep, your mini-horses and the neighbor's cows are some kind of superanimal beings, then.


----------



## farmerjan

Many animals prefer the fermenting hay that we deem unpalatable.  We often feed 2-3 yr old hay that they scoff down.  The trick is for them to "HAVE A CHOICE".   The animals will make the different hay/feed/crap balance out.  It is feeding them ONLY the bad stuff that they cannot  balance out that we get into trouble.  

Our cows will stand and eat the chicken litter when it gets delivered to our pastures before we get it spread.... like CANDY..... YUCK..... but it supplies something that they seem to crave.  We will get the litter delivered into the one "catch lot" and shut the cattle out of there so they don't eat and walk all over the pile.  It gets brought in on trailers with a "walking floor" .... so it gets unloaded in piles that back up to each other as the trailer pulls forward as it unloads.  THE COWS will eat and walk it down if we do not keep them out.


----------



## Kusanar

farmerjan said:


> Many animals prefer the fermenting hay that we deem unpalatable.  We often feed 2-3 yr old hay that they scoff down.  The trick is for them to "HAVE A CHOICE".   The animals will make the different hay/feed/crap balance out.  It is feeding them ONLY the bad stuff that they cannot  balance out that we get into trouble.
> 
> Our cows will stand and eat the chicken litter when it gets delivered to our pastures before we get it spread.... like CANDY..... YUCK..... but it supplies something that they seem to crave.  We will get the litter delivered into the one "catch lot" and shut the cattle out of there so they don't eat and walk all over the pile.  It gets brought in on trailers with a "walking floor" .... so it gets unloaded in piles that back up to each other as the trailer pulls forward as it unloads.  THE COWS will eat and walk it down if we do not keep them out.


When I was in Hippology (the study of the horse) in 4-H, we had to look at different feedstuffs and learn to visually ID the different hays and grains, one of the things we were supposed to look at and learn was "broiler litter" which is what your cows are eating. Apparently it is high in protein and minerals that may be lacking in their normal feed.


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## Beekissed

The boys hit the baking soda hard last night and this morning Rocket isn't limping, though the big boy still is.  I'm going to move them off that clover, to the back of the paddock that's mostly brush, then I'm going to mow down that clover and put an old hay bale in there before letting them back in.   

Rocket came and accepted a biscuit right out of my hand....a first!  I'm telling you, folks, those peanut butter biscuits will drive them mad!  I'm petting ewes now that never let me touch them or even get near them before they finally got a biscuit....now they are climbing on the 4 wheeler, letting me pet their heads and necks, stealing the 4 wheeler keys(Gimpy...got to watch that one like a hawk!), etc.    

All year long they never got a biscuit because the older gals would crowd them out, but we made a point of making sure most could get one early this spring and now the only one who can't be touched is the only one who still hasn't gotten curious enough to crowd in and claim a biscuit~Ugly Betty.   

Now, to win over Betty and the new ram lamb, Otis....if I can just get them near enough to eat a biscuit, they will join the crowd who go bonkers for biscuits!     >insert evil laugh here<


----------



## farmerjan

Cows have free choice mineral and salt at all the pastures.... If they are lacking, it sure is not from lack of offering.... they just like to eat that litter like some of us get hooked on Chocolate...... I always believed it was due to something lacking.... and still might be somewhat... but it is just getting something that they don't have in front of them all the time.... and to go overboard and gorging on it.  DUMB COWS.....


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## NEWCOMER

They are lovely! My sheep are not so into "baa" noises more like...mahhhhh
My anut said they sound like men


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## Beekissed

farmerjan said:


> Cows have free choice mineral and salt at all the pastures.... If they are lacking, it sure is not from lack of offering.... they just like to eat that litter like some of us get hooked on Chocolate...... I always believed it was due to something lacking.... and still might be somewhat... but it is just getting something that they don't have in front of them all the time.... and to go overboard and gorging on it.  DUMB COWS.....


I've seen vids of deer and cows chasing baby birds along the ground to eat them, crunching them up like cabbage, so it could very well be that extra something that only a certain type of protein can fulfill.  Like food cravings for us.


----------



## Beekissed

We've been having stunningly gorgeous weather, temps in the low 60s, low humidity, beautiful skies, light breezes and plenty of sun.  Just perfect in every way!!!  No bugs yet, bonus!!

Took a few pics of the sheeps today...

You see those eyes??  Those are the eyes of a biscuit tweaker!  






Checking Steve(my grandgirl named my 4 wheeler "Steve") for biscuits....




It's like an illegal vehicle search every time I go to the field...it's a shake down!  









Little Bit isn't so little anymore...3 wks old now and sturdy as can be.  All that milk to herself!  





The field shelter and the new sheep to the flock....





The new lambs are almost 2 mo. old but they seem so much more fragile looking than Little Bit....maybe due to being twins?  



....just a beautiful day and a peaceful scene.


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## Baymule

What lovely scenes. I love the snoopy sheep checking out the 4 wheeler! I love Little Bits color! She is so pretty. Beautiful Bee, just beautiful.


----------



## Mike CHS

I have said it before but it is always true,  I love pictures that make me smile and those made me smile.


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## Beekissed

Glad to report that Big Red is favoring that leg less and appears less bloated.  Today we'll roll  a crappy round bale into that paddock and mow the tender tops off that clover in the orchard so that he can have full use of his ram paddock back.  I'll also put out some baking soda and the usual minerals for him. 

Busy putting in fence posts here for the catch pens and working chute, using up some of the last of those big pallet's 3x3 framing to fabricate me some posts.  Also using up the last of the good pallets to make the walls of this pen.  Will do pics when finished.  

I really like the gentle nature of this ram and his polite but responsive attitude towards me.  He will now turn his head and look at me when I say his name, which I like...shows his intelligence.  I can talk all lovey dovey to the boys in that paddock but he'll only turn his head when I mention HIS name.  Kinda cool!  Took Rose and Shine much longer to recognize their names when I called them.


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## Baymule

It looks like you have a keeper! I am so happy for you, you are achieving your dream.


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## Beekissed

Did a paddock move today in preparation for breeding season....will run the gals down the middle this next week so they can smell the big boy and see him.   Hoping that will cause them to ovulate.  

Cleaned and bleached all components of the water delivery system and tweaked the dog food storage so it stays dry and safe from sheep.  Feels good to have those tweaks done.   

Also put up mineral and baking soda feeders in the ram paddock, rolled in an old hay bale and mowed down all the high, tender clover so he doesn't get even more too rich food in his system.  He still is limping on that front leg a bit.  

This next week or so will be a big push on getting fence posts cemented in so I can put up the walls of the sorting pens, as well as the alley.  Can't WAIT to finally have all that finished and move on to other pressing projects.  

First I have to spread 20 tons of gravel we had delivered today...by hand.....THAT's going to be a treat.


----------



## Baymule

You have been busy and with 20 tons of gravel, you are going to be a heck of a lot busier. 20 tons? Is that a typo? To spread by hand?


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> You have been busy and with 20 tons of gravel, you are going to be a heck of a lot busier. 20 tons? Is that a typo? To spread by hand?


No....not a typo.  I wish!   We've been so excited to get this gravel, as we got it put in places that are muddy and high traffic...but I sure would love to have a little Bobcat long about now to help me move some of this gravel.  

Mom just can't do it anymore and Eli has to work, so it's up to me to move that gravel.    We had piles dumped at the entrances of the new L shaped shed extension, so it all has to be moved UNDER that extension and spread evenly across the floor of it.  Then an extension of the driveway but they poured it all in a thick strip, so it has to be raked and shoveled outward until it's wider and less deep overall.   Then he dumped a pile next to the driveway in some mudholes adjacent that need spread throughout those mudholes and a strip through a gate that also needs to be raked and shoveled elsewhere to thin the thickness and extend the strip.  Then there's a thick strip poured through another gate that needs redistributed as well.   

It's all crusher run, so it needs to be done before it rains and gets too compacted with driving over it as we go about our daily business.  When I get it done it will look GREAT, but right now it just looks like a lot of really bad pain.    Little bits at a time....that's how it all gets done.


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## Baymule

If we were close, I’d sure bring my tractor and you could just point and tell me how you wanted it done. That’s a LOT to spread. Bless you, you just wade in the thick of things and get it done with what you have. I know you will get it done. I see a lot of sore muscles in your very near future. But what an improvement on your land.


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## farmerjan

All I can say, is holy cow.   DS dumped and spread some crusher run here several months ago.  Brought the skid loader up to do it and help pack it down.  Yeah, it needs to get done before rain or it packs.  Which is great to get it to settle in and make a great base to walk and drive on.... but that is an awful lot.  Good luck.


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## Kusanar

At least is is all roughly where you want it. Still a whole lot of work and sore muscles, but at least you aren't pushing it in a wheelbarrow from a massive pile to across the land.


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## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> At least is is all roughly where you want it. Still a whole lot of work and sore muscles, but at least you aren't pushing it in a wheelbarrow from a massive pile to across the land.


Was going to, but our WB is a sad sight right now...has a bum wheel.   Used a dump cart hooked to the 4 wheeler to move it further out from the source.   It worked and I have the gravel spread under the shed thus far....and am VERY happy about that!

Have decided, upon some good suggestions from good friends, to check out a mini Bobcat rental at our local town...will check pricing tomorrow.   They have a weekend special that would allow us time to use it on other things around here too.....repairing the road from the logger damage, smoothing out logging roads on the land, and moving that gravel too.


----------



## Beekissed

Got 7 fence posts cemented in today....just need to let them set, then put up the walls of my sorting pens and alley.  Can't WAIT!   Will get pics when it's all done.  That project will use up all but a few of the big pallet skids we got for free a couple of years back.   Can't believe how many ways we've used those pallets.....6 stacks taller than my head have dissolved into just a few scraps and a few odd pallets that need busted up.


----------



## Baymule

What a treasure trove you had. My husband no longer questions my scrounging. LOL I have a pile of R panel metal that was once a portable building. It was in a couple hundred acre field that was for sale. A hurricane rolled the building and destroyed it. I called the number on the for sale sign and got an immediate call back. Probably thought I wanted to pony up the millions $$$& to buy the land, sounded disappointed that I only wanted the now torn up building. I promised to clean it all up, which I did. I salvaged all the metal panels, a few torn nearly in two by the force of the winds. That was 11 years ago, still have it. The right project will come along. Also have a pile of corrugated tin that has dwindled considerably. Some assorted drill stem pipe, treated 4x4s and lumber, collected and hoarded until needed.

From one old scrounged to another, Bee well done on the pile of pallets, look at all the uses you found for them! Pictures of the sorting pens are needed! An idea, build a platform to raise the sheep off the ground, with drop sides. It saves the back when trimming feet.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> What a treasure trove you had. My husband no longer questions my scrounging. LOL I have a pile of R panel metal that was once a portable building. It was in a couple hundred acre field that was for sale. A hurricane rolled the building and destroyed it. I called the number on the for sale sign and got an immediate call back. Probably thought I wanted to pony up the millions $$$& to buy the land, sounded disappointed that I only wanted the now torn up building. I promised to clean it all up, which I did. I salvaged all the metal panels, a few torn nearly in two by the force of the winds. That was 11 years ago, still have it. The right project will come along. Also have a pile of corrugated tin that has dwindled considerably. Some assorted drill stem pipe, treated 4x4s and lumber, collected and hoarded until needed.
> 
> From one old scrounged to another, Bee well done on the pile of pallets, look at all the uses you found for them! Pictures of the sorting pens are needed! An idea, build a platform to raise the sheep off the ground, with drop sides. It saves the back when trimming feet.


Just think of the gold mine you have now, with all that scrounged materials and lumber on your land!  You'll have to put out security cameras to just protect the wood alone!    Lots of really funny memes about the cost of lumber out there right now.   We were hoarding wood before it was cool, weren't we?  

I did the same as you when I still had two boys at home....took down a large wooden shed for a guy and got to keep all the lumber, all the chain link fencing and posts and the roofing.  Turned around and built myself a hay shed and winter lot for the sheep back when I had sheep the first time around.  Teenage boys...cheap slave labor!  

I'll talk to Eli about that idea....he wants me to finish/perfect my sheep chair and use that instead....I'm switching out the bungee seat to a canvas one with bungee trim instead.    There's only one ewe that needs yearly trimming that we are keeping and that's old Rose and we only trim her once a year, so not sure if we'll incorporate something into the chute just for her.  We've found all the sheep with black hooves rarely, if ever, need them trimmed.  

I would like to have a section of the chute where we can tie a sheep with her head up and inspect her, shear off any wool that's stubborn, check hooves, etc.  Haven't figured out how to do that and also access their bodies but the drop away or slide away sides sound good.


----------



## henless

Hope you're able to get the bobcat to help spread your gravel Bee. Sure would make it easier on you.


----------



## Baymule

Yes, we were hoarding wood before it was cool. LOL LOL


----------



## Beekissed

henless said:


> Hope you're able to get the bobcat to help spread your gravel Bee. Sure would make it easier on you.


Even better....I had Mom asked the neighbor if we could hire him to come spread it with the blade on his tractor and he will be here tomorrow, but isn't going to charge us anything!   Oldster to oldster favor!    

That Bobcat was going to cost $410 per day, plus fuel!!


----------



## farmerjan

That is fabulous @Beekissed .  You can do what little smoothing out with the rake and stuff without hurting your back  or making yourself so sore you wouldn't be able to move.  Maybe a chicken or a cooked meal or something as a thank you since he isn't going to charge you.  I am sure you have some sort of a "trade" for a thank you in mind.  That is wonderful.....Yeah, the bobcats are not cheap... sometimes if there is a lot you want to do it is worth it...but still a chunk out of the budget.   Really really glad for you.


----------



## Baymule

What @farmerjan said!


----------



## Beekissed

farmerjan said:


> That is fabulous @Beekissed .  You can do what little smoothing out with the rake and stuff without hurting your back  or making yourself so sore you wouldn't be able to move.  Maybe a chicken or a cooked meal or something as a thank you since he isn't going to charge you.  I am sure you have some sort of a "trade" for a thank you in mind.  That is wonderful.....Yeah, the bobcats are not cheap... sometimes if there is a lot you want to do it is worth it...but still a chunk out of the budget.   Really really glad for you.


We took him over some eggs(we do that every now and again through out the year) and offered to hire him to do the job....but our biggest favor we do for him is pay for all the gravel that's ever been applied to our joint 1/4 mile driveway over all these many long years as neighbors.  Yep, he hasn't paid a dime one on all the thousands of dollars worth of gravel we apply to this road and the road just absorbs like it's water in a paper towel(clay based soils).  He gets to enjoy the benefit of all that money every time he has to get out of the holler each winter.  

There is no raking that doesn't hurt my back....it was injured repeatedly throughout my career as a nurse, so everything I do hurts.  That's just my life, nothing new, but even raking leaves makes it hurt.


----------



## Baymule

A back injury is forever. People don’t realize that until they are hurt. Sorry that you have that as part of your daily life.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> A back injury is forever. People don’t realize that until they are hurt. Sorry that you have that as part of your daily life.


This is true.   I was a strong, 'can lift anything' person all my life until one day I lifted on a 400 lb guy and the other nurse didn't...she just didn't even try and it was an emergency that we do so.  I felt something give in my back that day, it took me down to my knees.... and it's never been the same since.  Now every day is pain, some days worse than others, but I haven't lived a day without pain since that day in 2005.  

Also both shoulders are pretty much toast...same thing...from lifting patients all my career.


----------



## Mini Horses

IMO he should be thrilled to do the spread part, since he has equipment and uses the drive.  Of course, we know some don't feel that way!

I need a trailer load of crush and run before winter...patch work to do on a driveway to back of farm and DD house.  Hmmmm $ again.


----------



## Beekissed

Mini Horses said:


> IMO he should be thrilled to do the spread part, since he has equipment and uses the drive.  Of course, we know some don't feel that way!
> 
> I need a trailer load of crush and run before winter...patch work to do on a driveway to back of farm and DD house.  Hmmmm $ again.


That's my thinking too, as it should only take him about 10 min. and the man is so bored he's been mowing his grass when it gets 3 in. tall.   I don't think he begrudges us the time or the use of his equipment at all as he's offered to help us many times in a sort of "if there's anything I can do to help you guys" kind of way.   We do the same thing and we both work on cutting trees out of the road and such.  He'll also go and smooth out the gravel we get hauled to put on the whole driveway, without being asked.  

But, you know me....I hate to ask for help with anything.  Don't know why, but it just doesn't come natural to me.  It's the last solution that comes to my mind most of the time.  

I've been trying to get Mom to use crusher run on this road for years now but each time she contracts the gravel, she would always choose a regular gravel instead.  This past winter we got a small load that didn't quite get delivered(long story) and was dumped on the side of the driveway instead.  The neighbor took his tractor and bucket and distributed it into potholes and such....since seeing how well the crusher run did, Mom finally agreed it was the best choice for back here.  Cheaper, molds easily to the landscape, doesn't bounce out of the ruts and potholes like regular gravel, packs well into these clay soils without being consumed as easily.


----------



## farmerjan

Yes, the crusher run fills in and then gets almost like concrete once it gets wet.... we use it for most all the places we need to fill and smooth.  The vehicle tires don't catch it and like you said, bounce it out of the holes and such.  
Glad that he is willing to help out that way.  I hate to ask for help most of the time, but have learned that not only with these knees I really can use the help, but that people also feel better when they are able to help you if they offer.  So now I do accept and am very thankful for the help.


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## Baymule

We all want to help others, but feel reluctant to ask for help ourselves. A man at church had a heart attack and surgery. It laid him out, helpless. He and his wife depended upon their church family for practically everything for awhile. It was a hard lesson for him.

He put it like this; he always helped others, receiving his blessings from the Lord. Suddenly he was on the receiving end of “help” and struggled with it. Pride. He realized that for others to receive their blessings, he had to accept help. Who was he to deny others their blessings and the good feeling of helping someone else.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> We all want to help others, but feel reluctant to ask for help ourselves. A man at church had a heart attack and surgery. It laid him out, helpless. He and his wife depended upon their church family for practically everything for awhile. It was a hard lesson for him.
> 
> He put it like this; he always helped others, receiving his blessings from the Lord. Suddenly he was on the receiving end of “help” and struggled with it. Pride. He realized that for others to receive their blessings, he had to accept help. Who was he to deny others their blessings and the good feeling of helping someone else.


That's exactly the point I came to about 10 yrs ago, where I was no longer holding down a job for the first time since I was 14....depending on someone else for your living after that is a hard, hard thing to do.  I had to trust the Lord that it was where He wanted me to be in life, despite ridicule from friends...well...no longer friends of mine....and I still get the look when I say I'm not working, just taking care of my Mom.   They all look at me like "riiiiiiiiggggghhhhtttttt.....so, how can you afford to do that???"  My only explanation is that God took over and I've not wanted for anything at all, all my needs are provided for, pressed down, shaken together and running over.  

I agree, Bay...it's hard to accept help when I was always the one helping others.   Then, when I did accept help, I realized I had been hogging a lot of blessings all those years and it truly IS more blessed to give than to receive....others need a chance to give too.  My neighbor is out there right now, smoothing gravel......I feel blessed on this end of the giving too!!!


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## Beekissed

Gravel is smoothed!!!!!  Hallelujah!!!!  God is good!!!  I pray a blessing on the neighbor for this help.


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## farmerjan

The thing is, with being thankful, you can also use your time for things more productive.  And it is done now which will be great if it does rain.   And he feels good for doing something for a neighbor.  So glad for you.


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## Baymule

That is awesome that the gravel is spread! And your neighbor knows he did a good deed for his neighbors.

We live in a great neighborhood. Robert just came to get our tractor. He has a sawmill now, his next door neighbor wants the pines cut off his place and Robert can have the lumber. Robert needs the tractor to drag the tree trunk to his sawmill.


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## henless

It's so nice to get a big job finished! It's nice when you have friends/neighbors that can help when needed.


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## Beekissed

Been getting pretty steady rain these past few days, which is a huge blessing!!!, and that gravel is giving us our money's worth.  Nice to be driving the 4Ws back and forth into and out of the shed area, working under there and walking about without encountering mud.  

Still working on turning big pallets into a sorting pen...it's like trying to put together a big puzzle, but all the pieces are 10-12 ft long and 4-5 ft wide~no two with the same dimensions, so cutting to fit, tearing them apart to build a different pallet, etc., is in order.  Now we are even using regular pallets, slotting them into spaces where they fit as well.  It's all a hodgepodge of construction and the pallet wood is hard as iron, so it's all done with maximum effort....makes the tools hot~some even smoking hot~and muscles sore.  

Just trying to get this all done~at least good enough to do a sorting...will have to do the detailed items later~to get the big boy in with the girls by or near June 1st and also take advantage of this cooler weather these next few days.  They've been sharing a fence line for the last 4 days in hopes of someone feeling frisky enough to start cycling by the time they are joined in one paddock.


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## Baymule

Yes it is hard work, yes pallets are some sort of alien wood composite mixed with iron filings and concrete. They should build cars and trucks out of that stuff, it would end wrecks and put body shops out of business. LOL LOL 

A lot of hard work now, but you never back down just because something is hard. Just look at what you’ll have when you are done. It sure will make working your sheep a lot easier.


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## Beekissed

The new sorting system needs some tweaking, which we knew would happen, but it's still discouraging.  The alley was too wide and also too tall for me to work it, even with me standing on a railroad tie.   The catch pen will have to be expanded by the time we have lambs, as it's just too small for our purposes, though our flock fit in it, it's a bit snug.  

The slats on the lamb pen were just wide enough for the more slender lambs to squirt through, so that had to be rectified.  We also want to have some halters and clips along the alley for keeping heads up if I need them to be....got tired of pulling heads up out of the depths of the alley to check sheep over.  

We need to get my sheep chair tweaked so we can use it to trim hooves when needed...we'll be ditching all the ewes that need that a lot, except for Rose, who has an honorary place in the flock no matter what.  So, the chair will still come in handy and I'll hang it up down here when not in use.

Our $250 set of sheep shears are nigh worthless and the blades dull within a few swipes of the clippers, gumming up with lanolin.  I can't imagine what it would be like to shear truly wool breeds but these clippers won't even cut the lamb coats off these first year ewes.  They desperately NEED to get those soggy, dirty, nasty coats off before it gets really hot and they don't seem able to shed them(these are not full hair lambs but have some measure of Texel and/or Dorper in the mix).  

Anyone who shears their own have any tips as to why a brand new blade in brand new shears are so ineffectual?


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## Baymule

You have to oil them frequently and wash them off n some sort of solution to cut the grease. I only know that from @Ridgetop bringing her shears and showing me what to do.

When we took 6 of my ewes to auction, 4 of them were poor shedders and kept a Mohawk of matted mess. I still have 3 like that, but they consistently have twins or even triplets that are real nice lambs. So I just got a set of hand shears to trim them up. Looks like I’ll have another one, Frimplepants is a woolly puff ball.

I’ll take before, during and after pictures. I got a feeling that the after pictures are going to look like my girls were attacked by a phycho squirrel with broken teeth.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> You have to oil them frequently and wash them off n some sort of solution to cut the grease. I only know that from @Ridgetop bringing her shears and showing me what to do.
> 
> When we took 6 of my ewes to auction, 4 of them were poor shedders and kept a Mohawk of matted mess. I still have 3 like that, but they consistently have twins or even triplets that are real nice lambs. So I just got a set of hand shears to trim them up. Looks like I’ll have another one, Frimplepants is a woolly puff ball.
> 
> I’ll take before, during and after pictures. I got a feeling that the after pictures are going to look like my girls were attacked by a phycho squirrel with broken teeth.


How often, say....after every 4 strokes down the body?  Because that's about all we get is four strikes down and then they start to snag in the hide and no longer cut.   The solution....is it a degreaser solution?  Does the clippers have to sit in them for awhile or is it just a dip and swish?  How often do the blades have to be changed out on these shearers?


----------



## Baymule

That I don't know. @Ridgetop got any answers?


----------



## Ridgetop

Sheep pick up dirt and debris in their wool because of the lanolin and grease..  Even the "hair" breeds like Dorpers carry some wool.  The dirt is hat dulls the blades.  You can usually shear 3-4 sheep before having to change and sharpen blades.  It depends on the amount of dirt.  The amount of dirt in the fleece depends on your surroundings.  Do you mostly have brush and weeds that bury themselves in the wool or do you have dirt and sand that will work in and lodge fine grit against the skin.

BUT it sounds like your blades are not getting dull so much as getting sticky from the lanolin.  You need to buy *clipper blade wash.*  It is available in most feed stores.  You also need to get some *Kool Lube.  *Both these products are available from Oster although there are other brand names that supply them as well.   

The easiest way to shear sheep is in a stanchion with a sheep head..  This will allow you to have 2 hands free to shear while the sheep is confined in the head lock.  You can also wash the blades etc. without having to keep hold of the sheep.  I highly recommend either buying one or setting up some sort of head hold for shearing.  Yu can buy the head holds separately and build your own stand.  Some head holds will bolt on to pipe fencing and can be stored easily when not in use.  Using a raised stand makes it easier because you don't have to bend over.    Bending over to shear the way I used to is no longer an option for me if I want to be able to walk the next day!   








So here are some instruction on shearing more easily.  Don't try to do all the sheep at once.  Spread it out several days over  week or so.  Assemble all your stuff - blade wash, Kool Lube, antiseptic spray or cream on, flat pan for the blade wash, hand shears if desired, etc.  Nothing worse than having to run inside to find your equipment and having to leave  sheep in the stand, or _worse_, having to catch it again.  

*First*, make sure that your blades are properly loaded in the clipper head. (I often have trouble getting them done so the run smoothly and have to have DS1 or DS2 check them over for me.  )  Once loaded, run them and listen for any sounds that indicate the blades are hanging up or not running smoothly.  

*Second, *spray the blades with Kool Lube before even putting them onto the sheep and listen to see if they run smoother.  You will repeat this procedure through the shearing process since the blades will heat up from the friction causing the sheep to flinch away as the hot blades touch the skin.

*Third,* get a shallow dish.  I use disposable pie pans.  Pour about 1/2-1" of Blade Wash into the pan.  You will be putting the blades in the solution and running the clipper to remove the oil and grease that builds up on the blades as you shear.  Do this procedure as you shear whenever the blades feel like they are starting to gum up.  

*Fourth,* shear from back to front.  If your sheep are shedding out anywhere, that is a good place to start.  Make sure that you hold the clipper *horizontally to the body*.  The large shearing blades can easily cut through skin, flesh and even bone.  The blades should always be horizontal to the body of the sheep.  

*Fifth, *as you shear, fold the cut fleece away from the clipper blades so you can see where you are cutting.  If you are saving the fleece to spin, you want to try to keep it in one piece although that is not necessary.  Since your sheep are Dorper/Texel the wool probably won't be worth saving so don't worry about that.  

*Sixth,* on Hair breeds, there is usually little or no wool on the bellies.  Dorpers only carry wool about 2/3s down their body.  Some carry more, but most have very little under their bellies.  This is a plus for you since you don't have to flip them and shear.  Not only do you not have to wrestle with holding a sheep on its butt one handed while you hold the heavy clipper with the other (this takes a lot of practice as does flipping the sheep) but an even bigger plus since shearing around teats and penises can be difficult for beginners.  One wrong move or jump by the sheep and you can take off a teat or injure the penis.  No more brood ewe or stud ram.  

*Seventh,* keep cleaning your blades in the blade wash as they start to bind up.  Keep spraying the Kool Lube on the blades during the shearing process.  These 2 actions make  lot of difference in the work of shearing.  

*Eighth,* your final step is to keep a spray bottle of antiseptic spray handy in case you nick the skin.  After shearing the sheep check it all over for any blood spots.  If you find any abscesses *don't freak out*!  Sheep that carry any wool during the year will often get abscesses caused by foxtails, shearing nicks, etc.  These are usually just minor irritational abscessses.  Drain them and use antiseptic.  

Ninth:

Don't worry about getting a super smooth cut at first.  You are learning how to shear and can go back over the job if you need to with a finer blade.  The job you do depends how close you want to shear, if you will be spinning the wool, and of course how practiced you are.


----------



## Ridgetop

OOPS!  That posted too soon.  The little square metal bits on the sides are to hold U-shaped side bars to keep the animal in place on the stanchion.  You move them around for access from each side.  I sold mine when i sold the other stanchion.  I need to get another sit for trimming hooves and shearing if I decide to go to the Reno show.

Here is a picture of a portable metal stanchion with a sheep head.  This is useful for both shearing and hoof trimming.  The head and post can be bought as a bolt on single post and head from vendors.





What Baymule said abut washing the sheep is true.  But that is mainly for doing a slick shear for shows.  Then you would shear off the heavy wool, wash with dish detergent to cut the grease, and slick shear with a finer toothed blade.   Since this is usually done for show animals that are lambs or yearlings, they often are not carrying much fleece and you only have to wash and slick shear. 

I hope this helps you.


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> Sheep pick up dirt and debris in their wool because of the lanolin and grease..  Even the "hair" breeds like Dorpers carry some wool.  The dirt is hat dulls the blades.  You can usually shear 3-4 sheep before having to change and sharpen blades.  It depends on the amount of dirt.  The amount of dirt in the fleece depends on your surroundings.  Do you mostly have brush and weeds that bury themselves in the wool or do you have dirt and sand that will work in and lodge fine grit against the skin.
> 
> BUT it sounds like your blades are not getting dull so much as getting sticky from the lanolin.  You need to buy *clipper blade wash.*  It is available in most feed stores.  You also need to get some *Kool Lube.  *Both these products are available from Oster although there are other brand names that supply them as well.
> 
> The easiest way to shear sheep is in a stanchion with a sheep head..  This will allow you to have 2 hands free to shear while the sheep is confined in the head lock.  You can also wash the blades etc. without having to keep hold of the sheep.  I highly recommend either buying one or setting up some sort of head hold for shearing.  Yu can buy the head holds separately and build your own stand.  Some head holds will bolt on to pipe fencing and can be stored easily when not in use.  Using a raised stand makes it easier because you don't have to bend over.    Bending over to shear the way I used to is no longer an option for me if I want to be able to walk the next day!
> 
> View attachment 85701
> 
> 
> 
> So here are some instruction on shearing more easily.  Don't try to do all the sheep at once.  Spread it out several days over  week or so.  Assemble all your stuff - blade wash, Kool Lube, antiseptic spray or cream on, flat pan for the blade wash, hand shears if desired, etc.  Nothing worse than having to run inside to find your equipment and having to leave  sheep in the stand, or _worse_, having to catch it again.
> 
> *First*, make sure that your blades are properly loaded in the clipper head. (I often have trouble getting them done so the run smoothly and have to have DS1 or DS2 check them over for me.  )  Once loaded, run them and listen for any sounds that indicate the blades are hanging up or not running smoothly.
> 
> *Second, *spray the blades with Kool Lube before even putting them onto the sheep and listen to see if they run smoother.  You will repeat this procedure through the shearing process since the blades will heat up from the friction causing the sheep to flinch away as the hot blades touch the skin.
> 
> *Third,* get a shallow dish.  I use disposable pie pans.  Pour about 1/2-1" of Blade Wash into the pan.  You will be putting the blades in the solution and running the clipper to remove the oil and grease that builds up on the blades as you shear.  Do this procedure as you shear whenever the blades feel like they are starting to gum up.
> 
> *Fourth,* shear from back to front.  If your sheep are shedding out anywhere, that is a good place to start.  Make sure that you hold the clipper *horizontally to the body*.  The large shearing blades can easily cut through skin, flesh and even bone.  The blades should always be horizontal to the body of the sheep.
> 
> *Fifth, *as you shear, fold the cut fleece away from the clipper blades so you can see where you are cutting.  If you are saving the fleece to spin, you want to try to keep it in one piece although that is not necessary.  Since your sheep are Dorper/Texel the wool probably won't be worth saving so don't worry about that.
> 
> *Sixth,* on Hair breeds, there is usually little or no wool on the bellies.  Dorpers only carry wool about 2/3s down their body.  Some carry more, but most have very little under their bellies.  This is a plus for you since you don't have to flip them and shear.  Not only do you not have to wrestle with holding a sheep on its butt one handed while you hold the heavy clipper with the other (this takes a lot of practice as does flipping the sheep) but an even bigger plus since shearing around teats and penises can be difficult for beginners.  One wrong move or jump by the sheep and you can take off a teat or injure the penis.  No more brood ewe or stud ram.
> 
> *Seventh,* keep cleaning your blades in the blade wash as they start to bind up.  Keep spraying the Kool Lube on the blades during the shearing process.  These 2 actions make  lot of difference in the work of shearing.
> 
> *Eighth,* your final step is to keep a spray bottle of antiseptic spray handy in case you nick the skin.  After shearing the sheep check it all over for any blood spots.  If you find any abscesses *don't freak out*!  Sheep that carry any wool during the year will often get abscesses caused by foxtails, shearing nicks, etc.  These are usually just minor irritational abscessses.  Drain them and use antiseptic.
> 
> Ninth:
> 
> Don't worry about getting a super smooth cut at first.  You are learning how to shear and can go back over the job if you need to with a finer blade.  The job you do depends how close you want to shear, if you will be spinning the wool, and of course how practiced you are.


WOWZA!!!! YES, that helps!  Will have to get that stuff on hand...we were dipping the blades in hot water with degreaser in it, then spraying with WD40 for the lube.  

THANK YOU!!!!!      Eli wanted to pick up one of those stanchions we saw for sale the other day, but I can just see my sheep throwing their bodies off that raised floor and hanging from their heads, choking themselves to death and us trying to pick their big, fat bodies up enough to release them from the head hold.   And they will...we have some that will hang themselves, choking until their eyes roll back, rather than stand tied to anything let alone trying to wrestle them up onto a platform, THEN tying them up.  Not used to being handled at all, as they are pastured at all times, so they will buck like wild horses, throw themselves onto their backs and roll and otherwise try to free themselves from any kind of restraint.  If we put them in a regular stanchion, they collapse to the ground and thrash around, choking themselves with the stanchion.  

We make a vow not to keep heavy blunt instruments or guns nearby, as we will definitely beat or shoot a sheep to death during these histrionics if we have any kind of weapon in our hands. 

The pasturing is the problem with doing just one at a time...we have one place to do them and they are in a managed intensive pasture rotation, which means they move to new pasture every 4-10 days and aren't near the handling facilities at all. 

Eli's going to sharpen the blades, get more blades and we'll definitely get the Kool Lube and degreaser, though I doubt either can be found around here...will order online.  At the end of this month we'll be running them through the pens again to sort out the ram and put the ewe lamb and wethers back in with the flock...we'll try to have everything more ready before then so we can finally shear these sheep....there are only four that need it and two of them have partial shears where we buzzed the back, but couldn't cut anymore due to the blades hanging up and not cutting any longer. 



Their fleeces are VERY dirty on the surface, but not near the body where the blades are cutting...very clean there, with buttery yellow lanolin in the clean, white wool/hair.


----------



## Larsen Poultry Ranch

In the sorting pens is there a chute area where you could block one in to try to shear at least part of it?


----------



## Ridgetop

You can train them to stand still by putting them in a halter (inside  pen) nd tying them up tight to a post.  Then let them fight the halter rope on their own till they realize they can't move away.  Get the stanchion and get the optional side rails too.  Then they can't fling themselves off so easily since the side rails will keep them from falling off to one side.  Once they lose their footing a couple times and feel themselves dangling in space they will tend to freeze in place on the stand.  I need new side rails for mine.  My sheep are not tame either.


----------



## Baymule

Beekissed said:


> We make a vow not to keep heavy blunt instruments or guns nearby, as we will definitely beat or shoot a sheep to death during these histrionics if we have any kind of weapon in our hands.


----------



## Ridgetop

Sheep can drive you to violence faster than any other living creature.  Except perhaps DH.    I try not to keep blunt or sharp instruments too near him either.  But mostly I love him.


----------



## Beekissed

Larsen Poultry Ranch said:


> In the sorting pens is there a chute area where you could block one in to try to shear at least part of it?


There is....we need to work on it to make it more narrow and also provide a place to clip the sheep's head up so they can't back away or put their heads down.  We also need to drop the sides down lower.  More tweakage needed at this time but we'll get there.


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> You can train them to stand still by putting them in a halter (inside  pen) nd tying them up tight to a post.  Then let them fight the halter rope on their own till they realize they can't move away.  Get the stanchion and get the optional side rails too.  Then they can't fling themselves off so easily since the side rails will keep them from falling off to one side.  Once they lose their footing a couple times and feel themselves dangling in space they will tend to freeze in place on the stand.  I need new side rails for mine.  My sheep are not tame either.


We'll look for one or Eli will build us one...he's got a welder now, so he needs the practice!


----------



## Ridgetop

Great idea!


----------



## Beekissed

Big Red has been in with the girls since June 1st and we are starting to see breeding activity.  Probably more going on at night when it's cooler, as we are having some pretty hot, muggy weather right now.  I'm really liking this ram's docile nature towards us....not too familiar or getting into our space at all, but very polite, not flighty, just a nice guy.  

Can't wait to see how  many red lambs we get this fall....I hope it's a lot! 

The lambs are weaned and in their own flock now, eating like crazy and growing well. 

Got a new dog awhile back....a retired Anatolian named Eli, 10 yrs old and FREE.  He's for watching over the coop and the lamb group while its up here by the house.  He's kind of stiff in his joints and a good bit overweight(168 lbs!!!!!), but we've got him on a diet and on pain meds and he seems to be moving better.  He's quiet and aloof, but friendly and not a bit aggressive towards any animal or human.  Blue liked him right away and Pinky just ignored him. 

The big field is getting away from us a bit, what with all this rain and hot weather, as we don't have a big enough flock to keep up with it....but it's a good problem to have!  Too much graze?  Never had THAT before.    We are dividing it up into 4 sections, with the sheep on each section for 10-15 days per section.  What they leave behind we'll mow on high, just to keep up with grass that has went to seed and any weeds that may be forming.


----------



## Baymule

Too much grass? I can only DREAM! How wonderful for you and your sheep. We need more pictures of the pastures, Big Red, the girls, the lambs and Eli!


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Too much grass? I can only DREAM! How wonderful for you and your sheep. We need more pictures of the pastures, Big Red, the girls, the lambs and Eli!


Will do!  Here's a pic of the new dog...hiding in the shed with me during a thunderstorm.  Could be why he's had 5-6 owners in his life.  Probably used to run off the property during storms but now he's too old and crippled up to do that.


----------



## Mini Horses

But he's a good looking dog and might limp but can still bark!   He deserves some easy times....and hugs.


----------



## Baymule

Eli can still contribute and have a good rest of his life. Life expectancy for Great Pyrenees is 10-12 years. Paris is 13. The Cornish Cross chicken tractor is in “her” pasture and so are the weaned ewe lamb replacements. She is still working and is happy.
Old dogs are still worth it.


----------



## Ridgetop

Old LGDs don't retire, *we* have to retire *them* to easier guarding duties.  Maybe less pasture to protect, a job closer to the house, etc.  If they are in a situation with not enough backup and heavy predator load they often get killed or badly injured by predators because they don't back down and don't realize they are not as fast as they used to be.  

That is why I add a young pup when the older one gets close to slowing down.  The old dog is still active enough to train the next one, and by the time the elder dog needs back up it is in place, fully trained and able to protect against predators.  The mistake many people make is not realizing when their LGD starts to slow down.  Older LGDs don't show age like house dogs, but need backup _much sooner_ than house dogs due to what they are protecting against.  You will not notice the need for an additional dog until the older dog is injured or you lose stock. 

Old LGDs like Eli and Paris still have the drive to work.  Giving them easier tasks like guarding poultry or the lambing barn closer to the house where you can back them up if needed is essential for them.  They won't realize they can't take on a coyote pack or cougar and will try to their last breath to defend you and yours.


----------



## Beekissed

Mini Horses said:


> But he's a good looking dog and might limp but can still bark!   He deserves some easy times....and hugs.


He doesn't limp, just moves like his hips are stiff and sore....I'm giving him enteric coated aspirin each day for that and since he's been getting that, he's actually loping and trotting at times, plus getting up and down easier than before.  

He's very quiet, rarely barks at all....usually just one woof.  He seriously doesn't like to be hugged, petted or otherwise handled, but I'm working on that.  He doesn't like me but will let Eli and Mom pet him, which is an odd feeling.....usually I get a lot of bucket love from the animals, at least, as I'm the one who feeds.  I guess he doesn't trust me because I'm the one who helped put him in a cage and take him away from his home, sprayed him down with lemongrass spray to repel the ticks and fleas, and tied him to a zip line for the first week.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Eli can still contribute and have a good rest of his life. Life expectancy for Great Pyrenees is 10-12 years. Paris is 13. The Cornish Cross chicken tractor is in “her” pasture and so are the weaned ewe lamb replacements. She is still working and is happy.
> Old dogs are still worth it.


Amen!  These folks were moving to Idaho and wouldn't have stock or land any longer, which was why they were trying to find Eli a farm home.  He's been no trouble at all and doesn't eat much....they had been feeding him all kinds of raw meats, most with bones, and his old, worn down teeth could no longer eat such things....I think he's horribly constipated.  I got to see one of his BMs and it was seriously not normal.  Treated him for that at the beginning of the week and again today and we've seen a noticeable difference in his countenance and how much more he's moving around....being plugged up makes a creature miserable.

We also put him on a diet and he's losing wt, which will also help his mobility and pain issues.  We put his water up the hill by the chicken coop and he likes to "guard aka sleep" down by the house, so he's forced to walk up the hill to hydrate, which is about the only exercise he's getting.  A little is better than none at all, I say!


----------



## Beekissed

Well...we've come to a turning point in our sheep farming that we didn't quite prepare for as we are just winging it, making things up as we go along, for the most part and working with a shoestring budget....not even a whole shoestring.  More like a frayed piece of a string.   

With all the lovely rain and hot temps, the grass is growing very quickly down in the big field and our flock is still too small to put a real dent in it.   When we leased that field, we told the neighbors we would keep it mowed via grazing but until we get a sizeable flock, it's an unrealistic goal.  

We entertained the thought of mowing behind the grazing with our old Cub Cadet riding mower but it would mow it closer than we like and we may also hit something in that field, not knowing the terrain as well as we would like.  We've been looking for old horse drawn hay sickles that we could pull behind the 4Ws but not finding any that aren't clear across the country.   

So, today we found a solution that Eli has decided to invest his own money into....just $1K....which is cheaper than most used riding mowers we've seen on Marketplace.  We are going to look at and possibly purchase a 1948 Massey Harris Cub "Pony" tractor that has a belly mower!  Now....I've always wanted to have a cub tractor, as I think they are the perfect size for a lady, but never dreamed to actually own one.  This one has all new tires, plugs, wires, battery and runs great if the ad is to be believed.  We shall see.  

Here's a pic of it.....










Restored they look like this....but this one will never look like that if we are the owners, unfortunately....






The belly mower supposedly lifts higher than what it shows in the pics, which would allow us to mow this field on a high setting so as not to lose the good smaller, lower growing forage, while cutting down the mature grasses and cutting down weeds before they seed.   It would also save us wear and tear on the old lawn mowers we have, as these old tractors are built for brush hogging a field and a lawn tractor is just not.  

After doing some research I found out these little tractors are powerful little work horses that we can use in many ways here as we clean up this logging debris, so they are not just toys.  

I hope and pray that it's as advertised and I also pray for God's guidance on this purchase.  Mom's tickled as she feels it's the perfect tool and size tractor for our little farm enterprise and will pay for itself soon enough.  I'm a tad excited because I've always wanted to drive a tractor but Dad would never let us drive his while I was growing up and this one is small enough to not be too intimidating.  Eli's a bit excited because it will be his and he's been wanting a tractor too.


----------



## Baymule

Oh wow! A tractor! Our tractor is small, 23 HP, but it has been a life saver here! That tractor will make a HUGE difference in the work load on your farm! It will make a lot of things much easier. What a find!

Sounds like Eli Dog is going to be just fine. What about giving him turmeric in his feed? It is great for inflammation, I take it when my knee hurts and I can feel it reducing the pain in less than 30 minutes. I buy the powder in a 1 pound bag at the health food store for under $9.

Does it get confusing having a dog and son with the same name? LOL


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Oh wow! A tractor! Our tractor is small, 23 HP, but it has been a life saver here! That tractor will make a HUGE difference in the work load on your farm! It will make a lot of things much easier. What a find!
> 
> Sounds like Eli Dog is going to be just fine. What about giving him turmeric in his feed? It is great for inflammation, I take it when my knee hurts and I can feel it reducing the pain in less than 30 minutes. I buy the powder in a 1 pound bag at the health food store for under $9.
> 
> Does it get confusing having a dog and son with the same name? LOL


YES!  We are trying to call him Esau instead but he's not buying it, so we are sticking with the name.   

I'll try the tumeric....they were giving him joint supplements every day but I didn't see that it was doing him a bit of good.


----------



## Baymule

Just tack Dog after Eli, so your son doesn’t come running when you call the dog.


----------



## farmerjan

Massie's are a great work tractor.  We have a small one,  a few years newer than that one in the picture.... and smaller than that one and it is great for tedding with the non-hydraulic arm tedder, and little stuff... in fact DS is putting in a new seal because it has been leaking oil.... it was another of the pieces of equipment that DS got from the estate of the friend... he set it up before he passed away so his wife would have an extra "income check" every month... and the interest was low... many of the pieces had been used and abused... he was not much on maintenance... so we have had to do some serious work on a few pieces... but overall, it was a good deal.  The ford 4600 and 6600 tractors were both part of that deal.... and I use the 4600 all summer with the wheel rake for the hay....
Hope you get it and it runs as good asthe ad says it does.  You will not be sorry if it is halfway decent....


----------



## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> Just tack Dog after Eli, so your son doesn’t come running when you call the dog.


I used to lease a barn, the barn owners had a free roaming dog named Jake, then I started babysitting and giving riding lessons to the kid next door... also named Jake, so then we had Jake Dog and Jake Kid which worked well. 

Also, when I was a kid we went to a church that did a yearly mission trip to a reservation in SD, well, one year we ended up with way too many guys named John. We then had St John (the only adult one), then 2nd John, 3rd John, and Biscuit (who was also named John)


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Oh wow! A tractor! Our tractor is small, 23 HP, but it has been a life saver here! That tractor will make a HUGE difference in the work load on your farm! It will make a lot of things much easier. What a find!
> 
> Sounds like Eli Dog is going to be just fine. What about giving him turmeric in his feed? It is great for inflammation, I take it when my knee hurts and I can feel it reducing the pain in less than 30 minutes. I buy the powder in a 1 pound bag at the health food store for under $9.
> 
> Does it get confusing having a dog and son with the same name? LOL


Bay, we didn't even get to see the tractor....one of those bad FB people who didn't even show up to the meeting place then messaged later that he got called out to work that morning and couldn't make it.  We traveled an hour and a half, used a quarter tank of gas, waited around at a gas station in a cellular dead zone trying to call and message this guy~the gas station he said to meet him at by giving him a call when we got there~ and even used the phone in the gas station, then on our way home he messaged this lame story.

 I told him I didn't buy that story (I have a feeling he sold it to someone else~after he had committed to us to see it~ because they got there first but didn't want to admit he had done so), as anyone with any common courtesy, having been called out to work, could spend 5 seconds to tap out a message on FB about that change in plans.   He didn't like being called out on his lie and called me everything but a white woman, so got reported to FB for his abusive language and failure to meet up when selling an item on marketplace.

As the Lord says~"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil; *for of the abundance of his heart his mouth speaketh." * So the filth and anger that came out of that man's mouth was a good indication of what kind of person we would have been dealing with.   I look at it as God's way of saving us from possibly buying something from someone so dishonest and inconsiderate....we would have regretted it, I'm sure, so I'm not too disappointed....angry at first, due to a wasted day, wasted gas and wasted expectations, but after thinking about it, I was relieved.


----------



## Baymule

What a disappointment. And what a jerk. I've bought lots of stuff on Craigslist and never had a problem. Sold some lambs on Craigslist too. On FB Marketplace and Craigslist, it is buyer beware, gotta be careful.


----------



## Beekissed

Got my Blade Ice in the mail today...supposed to be a blade coolant and lubricant combined.  Not sure if that will work as effectively as having those two things separately, but it's worth a shot.  

Have been mowing the big field with my old Cub Cadet and am quite proud of the old girl for doing so well...it was pretty high grass/weeds/briars/etc.  

Here ya go, Bay....shows how high that field got before we even turned around.  It looks like a lot of grass, but it's not lush, thick and good stuff....just sparse hay type grasses, some clover but a lot of just plain ol' trash.  This field hasn't been grazed for 25 yrs or more and brush hogged once per year since then, so lots of bad things have been allowed to thrive...but we are still oh, so very thankful for it!  Soon enough we'll have it looking more lush.     






Sheep seem to be liking it well enough....look how much bigger Big Red is than the girls!    






Dog's are thriving, still growing and Pinky Pie has reached her lanky grow out stage while Blue is finally showing meat on his ribs, having passed his 2 yr mark.  Pinky is still just 8 mo. old.  



Rose is about as filled out as Rose gets...she always looks like a milk goat.  Can't wait to see the lambs she and Red produce!  He's just the sweetest guy to these girls...saw him with his head laying on Shine's neck, just standing there broadside to her, not trying any breeding or anything, but just like he was giving her affection.  There's a fella who knows how to get a gal to ovulate!  





Here's a funny....in the worst possible soil that only grows a thin layer of moss, Blue had been using a certain place as his toilet while he was tethered for awhile.  That patch of grass/hay is the most lush, deep green and varied patch on our whole place.  Where nothing used to grow we got several different types of grasses and even wildflowers. 







You can see the grass on either side is thin and even nonexistent all around this patch.  Just need those dogs to fertilize the whole place like that!


----------



## Baymule

It may not be the pasture you want it to be yet, but it sure looks good to me!


----------



## Beekissed

So...was walking the paddock this evening and was quite surprised by what the sheep are eating.  What looks to me to be just weeds and rank, tough grass seems to be quite delectable to the flock.  For this I am very grateful!!!  Was shocked to see them actually eating those plants more than things I thought they would prefer.  Can't beat that!


----------



## Mini Horses

It's true, sheep and goats prefer what many livestock don't, especially the goats.   I can turn goats and mini horses together with little concern for who's eating what.  The goats love the trying to grow young trees and wild berry starts....horses walk on by.   Plus, their systems are built to use that forage very well.   

In winter, any young tree starts become theirs!!  Free food, growing when grass isn't.


----------



## Ridgetop

Beekissed said:


> Got my Blade Ice in the mail today...supposed to be a blade coolant and lubricant combined. Not sure if that will work as effectively as having those two things separately, but it's worth a shot.


Blade Ice, if it is the same as Oster Kool Lube, is not the same as Oster Blade Wash.  If you pull up Valley Vet Supply on line and go to their Oster Kool Lube and Blade Wash pages there is an excellent U Tube video showing the 2 products and how to use them on your clippers.  Be aware that the clipper they are demonstrating on is not a sheep shears, but is the Oster A-5 clipper.  The A-5 will not shear or clip wool on sheep.  But the video shows how to use the blade wash on the blades.  Kool Lube lubricates and cools the blades while the blade wash dissolves the lanolin that gums them up.  

If you can't find the video on the Valley Vet website, then just putting *Oster* *Blade Wash on clipper blades* might turn up the same video on U Tube.  

The blade wash is super important because it will cut the lanolin which is what is gumming up the clipper blades and causing your problems shearing.


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> Blade Ice, if it is the same as Oster Kool Lube, is not the same as Oster Blade Wash.  If you pull up Valley Vet Supply on line and go to their Oster Kool Lube and Blade Wash pages there is an excellent U Tube video showing the 2 products and how to use them on your clippers.  Be aware that the clipper they are demonstrating on is not a sheep shears, but is the Oster A-5 clipper.  The A-5 will not shear or clip wool on sheep.  But the video shows how to use the blade wash on the blades.  Kool Lube lubricates and cools the blades while the blade wash dissolves the lanolin that gums them up.
> 
> If you can't find the video on the Valley Vet website, then just putting *Oster* *Blade Wash on clipper blades* might turn up the same video on U Tube.
> 
> The blade wash is super important because it will cut the lanolin which is what is gumming up the clipper blades and causing your problems shearing.


Will get it!  Turns out it has a bit more than a degreaser in it....more petroleum type agents that will degrease and also lube.  Thank you!


----------



## Ridgetop




----------



## Beekissed

We are back on serious rotation of pasture now and I'll move the flock by myself to the other end of the big field on Tues....that will be the first time in awhile since I've done that and it will be with sheep that are out of the routine of changing paddocks.   I think only the power of the dog biscuits will help me get them to the new paddock once I've got it strung up.  

Tomorrow I move the lambs into the garden for weed cleanup....I'll keep them there a couple of days until I'm sure there's nothing else they will eat, then they will go into A paddock to feast on even more brush.  I'm putting Eli Dog into that paddock with them....he's moving around a lot better nowadays and seems much more alert, less sleeping all day long. 

I'll mow the paddock the big flock leaves behind and work on getting my dog feeder pen up and running.  

Moving the sheep shade shelter(say that real fast 3 times)each day is providing some intensive manure cover, much like moving a CX tractor does, as they take cover in that for most of the day and only graze in the cooler hours....when they stand up and stretch, they naturally evacuate their bowels right in the shelter.  Should be interesting to see what the areas that the shelter were on look like when the grass recovers and even further down the road.  I'll take pics of those, both before and later when I see the after affects, if any.  

I'm planting clover seed in the spots left behind by bale feeding this past winter and those spaces have plenty of manure around them as well.  Should be nice spots of fresh growth once things start developing. 

Going to look at 2 Ford 8N tractors this week, one that runs and one for parts, both for a good deal.  Then we'll have to buy a brush hog to go along with if we want to mow a little higher than I can with the Cub Cadet. 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplac...ghtspeed_banner&referralCode=messenger_banner


----------



## Baymule

I am loving hearing about your sheep and the pastures. Grass is the very staff of life. Where we spread sheep barn clean out, the grass comes back dark green and lush.


----------



## Mini Horses

In their day, those 8Ns were THE tractor to have!   Very reliable and even today one maintained works well.   Hope you get it and it's in good working order!  A blade will make snow shoveling a thing of the past.

My tractor is very helpful for so many things!   I can rope or chain things to lift and move that would not get done without that muscle.   Used it when picking blackberries last week...parked with front end loader up and over the patch, climbed up arms and into it....worked well.   But, I'm half monkey.


----------



## Mini Horses

I see new gravel...is that pic at your house???   It's home??? 🤔


----------



## Beekissed

Mini Horses said:


> I see new gravel...is that pic at your house???   It's home??? 🤔


That's the place where the tractor is at, not ours.  I'll try to find a pic of our place for you, if you'd like.  Thank you for the tractor review!  That sets my heart at ease, as we are first time tractor buyers, my son and I.  We've been watching all the YT vids on tractor reviews, what to look for when buying an old tractor, etc. but it's still anyone's guess what we will get.   

So...after seeing a wound on a LGD on FB, it occurred to me that we could easily get a wound like that on the dogs or sheep at any time and I didn't have a contingency plan in place.  Most folks would run them to the vet, but being a nurse, I try to do most of the vetting here at the house.   So, did a search for lidocaine, surgical stapler, sutures, hemostats, etc and found, to my astonishment!, that these things are not only affordable but readily available online.   Things ya learn.   

So, soon I'll be stocking up on such things to keep in the spare fridge, along with injectable penicillin I already have on hand.  Need to get more needle syringes to keep on hand as well.  Should be able to take care of minor wounds and such here for the sheep and, hopefully, for the dogs if they don't freak out and need to be sedated.  Come to find out, you can even purchase injectable sedatives for dogs too!  How cool is that?  

Couldn't find any recent pics....I'll have to take some that show the changes we've made this past year.  Lots and lots of changes.


----------



## Ridgetop

Yes, it is absolutely essential to have a lot of first aid supplies at home.  Even if you have a local vet you can often treat the wound yourself. 

One trick my friend Erick (breeds Anatolians) taught me for puncture wounds is to use mastitis tubes.  He uses Tomorrow tubes and after cleaning the wound, inserts the tube end into the puncture and squirts in the antibiotic.  He says this works like a charm on punctures. 

Punctures are terrible to treat since you can't stitch them up or they form an abscess when they heal on top.  That s why vets will put an irrigation tube in one end of the wound and stitch up around it.  I had a mare that developed cellulitis after coming home from the horse hospital with instructions to "just hose it off a couple times a day".  A new vet was recommended to me by my farrier.  This guy was older  and a real old fashioned horse doctor.  He showed  me how to use a Water Pic to irrigate inside the deep puncture (about 6" deep") to flush out the pus and bacteria.  Had to do this 2x daily with iodine and water.  Took her 3 months to heal.  That water Pic was wonderful.  He also gave me an old coffee grinder from the thrift store to use to crush antibiotics to drench her.  I still have them in my medical cupboard. 

Other items that come in handy are disposable scalpels, stitch removal scissors, disposable needles and sutures, Kotex pads for large wound drainage pads.  Lots of vet wrap (cheap on line), Alumashield spray, etc.  Hemmorrhoid cream, etc.  

I add to my kit every time we have an emergency and it seems like the emergency doesn't often recur.  LOL


----------



## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> So, did a search for lidocaine, surgical stapler, sutures, hemostats, etc and found, to my astonishment!, that these things are not only affordable but readily available online. Things ya learn.





Ridgetop said:


> Other items that come in handy are disposable scalpels, stitch removal scissors, disposable needles and sutures, Kotex pads for large wound drainage pads. Lots of vet wrap (cheap on line), Alumashield spray, etc. Hemmorrhoid cream, etc.


I second the disposable scalpels, you can buy them in sterile single use packaging so you can buy 5 and only need to get 1 dirty if you only need 1 at the time. 

Another odd one for bandaging horses is menstrual pads and diapers. They both absorb a lot of ick and the pads at least don't stick to blood so you can put them straight on a weeping wound and they will pull the pus and blood away but will not stick to the wound surface. 



Ridgetop said:


> One trick my friend Erick (breeds Anatolians) taught me for puncture wounds is to use mastitis tubes. He uses Tomorrow tubes and after cleaning the wound, inserts the tube end into the puncture and squirts in the antibiotic. He says this works like a charm on punctures.


Something I tried on the last horse I had with a puncture that was abscessing was I got one of the cheap disposable condiment bottles from walmart (like $1) and put the end of it in the wound and flushed it with water, then I made a liquid version of sugardine (betadine and white sugar mixed), I made mine liquid by microwaving it to warm it up so the sugar would melt and went heavy on the betadine, then put that in the bottle and filled the abscess pocket with that and left it. Looked horrible because every time he moved he would weep betadine down his shoulder (looked like he was bleeding to death) but it healed from the inside and healed well and quickly.


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> Yes, it is absolutely essential to have a lot of first aid supplies at home.  Even if you have a local vet you can often treat the wound yourself.
> 
> One trick my friend Erick (breeds Anatolians) taught me for puncture wounds is to use mastitis tubes.  He uses Tomorrow tubes and after cleaning the wound, inserts the tube end into the puncture and squirts in the antibiotic.  He says this works like a charm on punctures.
> 
> Punctures are terrible to treat since you can't stitch them up or they form an abscess when they heal on top.  That s why vets will put an irrigation tube in one end of the wound and stitch up around it.  I had a mare that developed cellulitis after coming home from the horse hospital with instructions to "just hose it off a couple times a day".  A new vet was recommended to me by my farrier.  This guy was older  and a real old fashioned horse doctor.  He showed  me how to use a Water Pic to irrigate inside the deep puncture (about 6" deep") to flush out the pus and bacteria.  Had to do this 2x daily with iodine and water.  Took her 3 months to heal.  That water Pic was wonderful.  He also gave me an old coffee grinder from the thrift store to use to crush antibiotics to drench her.  I still have them in my medical cupboard.
> 
> Other items that come in handy are disposable scalpels, stitch removal scissors, disposable needles and sutures, Kotex pads for large wound drainage pads.  Lots of vet wrap (cheap on line), Alumashield spray, etc.  Hemmorrhoid cream, etc.
> 
> I add to my kit every time we have an emergency and it seems like the emergency doesn't often recur.  LOL


Good suggestions!!! I'll need to get me some suture scissors....used to have all that years ago but after a few moves, I've lost my usual nursing supplies~even lost my stethoscope!   I've got mini e kits in each vehicle and large sanitary napkins are in each one....folks don't know just how valuable those are until you go try and buy ABD pads, which are hugely expensive and absorb less than the SN.  

Raw honey is in my home doctoring wheelhouse, as is castor oil, sulfur powder, iodine, peroxide(yes, I still use it on wounds, especially puncture wounds, all the new craze to the contrary....Dr. Pol still uses it too), vet wrap, various wound dressing supplies as well as syringes, antibiotic ointments, bag balm, Nustock, etc.


----------



## farmerjan

The good thing about using mastitis medicine is that it is NOT irritating to tissue.  We use Today or Tomorrow... whichever we can get as sometimes it is not in stock.... tomorrow is a little longer lasting since it it designed for use on a cow going dry.... We use it in eyes for pinkeye... it does not irritate or hurt, and if you squirt it under the eye lid, as they blink it will coat the eye... and helps.  We do other things too, but for eyes that are weeping but no real sign of white spot for pinkeye, it is often enough to save the eye.  And it will soothe the eye and if only some sort of irritant, it will help it to flush out.  Have also used it in puncture wounds.


----------



## Mini Horses

I keep most all those things mentioned on hand.  Also ambu bag, meds for bloat, Epsom salts, goat puncture equipment, oxygen tanks etc.   Today and Tomorrow is used on goats, too, if needed.   😎   My medicare OTC benefits let me buy all the basic ointments, wraps, topicals I will ever need... . I still have equipment from when mom was here to refill the oxy tanks, a concentrator??   Whatever it is.

Jeffers, Valley Vet...look under fish for SMZs, amoxicillin, etc...no script.   Yep, it's out there, once you start looking.


----------



## Baymule

Can you keep Today and Tomorrow on hand, or does it have to purchased as needed so it doesn't get old?


----------



## Beekissed

Today was the very first time I did a paddock  move and felt like we had done this managed intensive grazing properly!!!  I've been excited about that all day long!   In these brush paddocks we've been unable to keep our paddocks the right size in order for them to clean everything up and trample it well in a short amount of time, as there's not enough grass to measure how much they are actually eating. 

But, in the big field, we've been playing with paddock size and grazing days to see when we hit the sweet spot and I think we have it!!   Five days was the sweet spot in this last paddock and that's good....they advise to move in 6 day's time to avoid any worm cycles, especially in damp weather.   We finally got to see most of the available graze and browse eaten but not overeaten and most of the inedibles trampled very well, poop scattered in all the paddock.   There was a clear difference in the paddock they left and the one they moved into, whereas the last paddock was too big and was not impacted properly.  

AND, even better....when I opened the gate line, they flowed in like the Israelites leaving Egypt!  They moved in and immediately started eating.  I could almost hear them singing "Oh, Happy Day!", they were that excited.   When next we move paddocks, I'll try to get a pic to show the before and after before they graze it down. 

The way I have it set up, I set up 3 paddocks, side by side and put them in the first paddock.  Then they moved to the middle paddock....when they move to the third paddock, I'll take up the temp fencing for the first paddock and leap frog it forward to form another paddock so there's always a new paddock already set up ahead of them but a backline behind them.  As time goes on and we get better, the pasture gets better forage and we learn how to work this field, we won't leave a backline behind them, just paddocks ahead of them.   Then we'll stay two paddocks ahead of them at all times and leap frog the fencing with every paddock move to keep that flow.  I'll get pics tomorrow to show all of this better. 

Moving the shade shelter each day is also making quite a difference....the spot left behind is well trampled and full of poop, so those spots will flourish even more than the rest of the grass.  I'm also moving the water wagon every other day for the same reason.   Poop and trampling. 

I've got disposable fly traps in the shelter and now one is hanging over the water wagon, where flies like to congregate.  I'm happy to report a real good population of dung beetles that are working all the manure into the soils, even in the yard, which was surprising when you think of how many chickens are working this land all year long for more than a decade now.  Healthy dung beetle populations mean our soils are improving. 

Eli Dog has been working in the lamb paddock these past few days....he doesn't like it much but they seem much more settled now that he's in there with them.   He's moving much more freely now, getting up and down more quickly and seems to be feeling a bit better, but I think he's got something wrong in there...possibly liver disease, renal disease, or etc.   He's still not eating as much as a dog that size normally would, he's drinking quite a bit of water, his digestion is still slow but better than it was, and his stool doesn't look a normal color nor does it smell like it should.   Yes, I inspect my dog's poops....it's one way to know what's going on inside, just like for us humans.   Once a nurse, always a nurse.


----------



## farmerjan

Baymule said:


> Can you keep Today and Tomorrow on hand, or does it have to purchased as needed so it doesn't get old?


They have expiration dates, usually 2-3 years out if you get a "new batch".... but we have used them further out than that.  Keep in a fridge if the temps get too high, like your summers do.... but we just keep them on the shelf out of the sun in the "open barn"....Since they work for pinkeye, I usually buy a box of 12 a year or there abouts.... they last.  You can usually buy single tubes so if you don't think you would need much or often, then just buy one or 2... usually a couple dollars a piece....


----------



## Mini Horses

Here, you buy the box....where Farmerjan is there are more cattle and often store will break a box.....I have shared with another in past but haven't needed in a long time.

For Eli dog, have you tried giving him something for gut Flora?  Maybe yogurt or a prebiotic to help him develop better digestion.   Of course, if renal, etc, not that helpful. But immune support via gut.  Only a thought after your inspection report.    glad to hear he's taken on a job.


----------



## farmerjan

If someone only needs a tube or 2, I can send singles... can't cost that much can it?


----------



## Beekissed

Mini Horses said:


> Here, you buy the box....where Farmerjan is there are more cattle and often store will break a box.....I have shared with another in past but haven't needed in a long time.
> 
> For Eli dog, have you tried giving him something for gut Flora?  Maybe yogurt or a prebiotic to help him develop better digestion.   Of course, if renal, etc, not that helpful. But immune support via gut.  Only a thought after your inspection report.    glad to hear he's taken on a job.


I have thought about it and usually give all dogs buttermilk for their first week here but haven't had a chance to do that with Eli dog just yet.   Thanks for the reminder!  Life's been very busy and he's kind of been on the back burner, though he does get pain meds each day, gets brushed and Wondercide sprayed on his coat for the flies, fleas and ticks.   Poor dog was covered in ticks the day I picked him up but haven't seen one on him since a few days after arrival.  

All the dogs HATE that spray due to the smell(Lemongrass EO) but it sure seems to be working.  

He still thinks I'm the devil and Eli is his savior...he even likes Mom more than me, so I think I'm his enemy for taking him away from his old home.


----------



## Baymule

How exciting! Your dream pastures are working! I can’t wait to see before and after pictures!

Eli Dog sounds like he is a little happier, having something to do. Hope he feels better and that the last part of his life is the best you can give him.

Where we bought our 2 registered ewes from have Akbash dogs, 4 of them, 1 in each pasture. They have to contend with eagles carrying off the lambs.

Paris, our 13 year old female Great Pyrenees has retired herself. She recently decided to abandon her beloved back yard and side pasture for the leisure of living under the south end of the front porch, where it is higher off the ground and she doesn’t have to crawl under it. For years, she has been psychotic about her back yard and resisted all my efforts to move her. That’s why we put up a fence from the back yard to the sheep barn, so she could have more room and be guarding sheep. She has quit now. LOL Paris can do whatever the heck she wants, she has earned it.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> How exciting! Your dream pastures are working! I can’t wait to see before and after pictures!
> 
> Eli Dog sounds like he is a little happier, having something to do. Hope he feels better and that the last part of his life is the best you can give him.
> 
> Where we bought our 2 registered ewes from have Akbash dogs, 4 of them, 1 in each pasture. They have to contend with eagles carrying off the lambs.
> 
> Paris, our 13 year old female Great Pyrenees has retired herself. She recently decided to abandon her beloved back yard and side pasture for the leisure of living under the south end of the front porch, where it is higher off the ground and she doesn’t have to crawl under it. For years, she has been psychotic about her back yard and resisted all my efforts to move her. That’s why we put up a fence from the back yard to the sheep barn, so she could have more room and be guarding sheep. She has quit now. LOL Paris can do whatever the heck she wants, she has earned it.


She most certainly has!!! And I feel Eli has earned the right to stay close to the house and not have to rotate into far paddocks where he may feel vulnerable, working all by himself.  The lambs are right here next to the house and chicken coop, so I figured I'd just put him on the other side of that fence.   

I would LOVE to have another Akbash dog...my first LGD, Lucy, was an Akbash and she was by far the best LGD I've ever known.   Pinky is supposedly 1/4 Akbash, though she shows none of the traits....very much Anatolian traits on that one.   Also, she continues to be somewhat dim in her thinking....but it's okay, because she's excellent with her stock and that's all that matters in the end.


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## Baymule

Sentry is 1/4 Akbash. 1/4 GP and half Anatolian. Instead of explaining all that to people who don’t know what I’m talking about, I just say he’s Anatolian and they still don’t know what I’m talking about. Lol


----------



## Beekissed

Got a 1951 Ford 8N tractor today....will get pics as soon as I can.


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## Mike CHS

Beekissed said:


> Got a 1951 Ford 8N tractor today....will get pics as soon as I can.



I had a whole lot of hours on one of those when I was a young boy.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> I had a whole lot of hours on one of those when I was a young boy.


The seat is murder!!!!  How did farmers handle that big horn sticking up in the middle of that seat???  Eli said it presses right on a spot he'd rather not have it press!  It doesn't bother me, but my legs are too short, so the seat cuts me off on the back of my thighs.  Needless to say, the original seat is history and real quick.  

Now, I wanted to walk away from this tractor, as 3 tires need replacing and, a supposedly completely rebuilt tractor with only 10 hrs of run time on the newly rebuilt tractor was showing mysteriously black oil, but my son wanted it....though we had previously discussed the need to just WALK AWAY if there are any red flags.  Since it was his money on the line, I didn't push it, but I think the tractor was overpriced at $2K. 











...and a few pics of the oldster, Eli Dog.  As you can see, he has no love in his eyes for me, which is a weird feeling for me, as usually all the animals love me best, even if it's bucket love.  No amount of loving on him, feeding him, caring for him or just leaving him alone has worked with this one....I'm still the enemy.  He likes Eli but still only comes when called when he feels like it.  

But, even with all of that, we are getting him slimmed down a bit, he isn't hurting as badly, he doesn't smell bad like he did when he arrived(no bathing, just a change in diet sufficed), and he has a lot of roaming space within the system.


----------



## Mike CHS

It has been so long ago that I don't remember any issues with the seat so they may not have been original.  It seemed at the time that all of the peach orchards around our town used those things and everyone had several.  Peaches was (and still is) a big business around the part of Missouri I grew up in.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> It has been so long ago that I don't remember any issues with the seat so they may not have been original.  It seemed at the time that all of the peach orchards around our town used those things and everyone had several.  Peaches was (and still is) a big business around the part of Missouri I grew up in.


I like it because it's small enough to fit through our gates and around the trees in our orchard as well....could be why they used this type of tractor, small but still powerful.   

That's funny, as you always picture peaches coming more from the southern part of the country or out in CA....never knew they were a big thing in Missouri!  Things ya learn every day, huh?


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## Ridgetop

Beekissed said:


> s you can see, he has no love in his eyes for me, which is a weird feeling for me, as usually all the animals love me best, even if it's bucket love. No amount of loving on him, feeding him, caring for him or just leaving him alone has worked with this one....I'm still the enemy.


He is an old dog, and may take time to warm up to you.  Many Anatolians remain suspicious of everyone not in their family.  Since you didn't raise him he may still be "evaluating" you.   Another thing about Anatolians is that they decide whether you or _*they*_ are more capable of protecting the flock and property. If you are not the alpha, they will ignore your commands because they don't think you are able to make correct decisions. They will decide for you if they should obey you or if they should ignore your commands because they "know better than you". Being the Alpha does not mean being bigger or stronger either. It means the dog or human better able to decide the size of any threat and determine the force necessary to deal with it. Most male Anatolians believe they they are the only one capable of making those important decisions! Some dominate females Anatolians also think that way!   Their attitude also can change with the time of day the threat is posed etc.  For instance, any time from dusk on, Bubba has decided that he will protect me even if I am talking in a friendly manner to a stranger on the driveway.  He was quite ferocious towards the traveling notary on Friday evening as I walked her to her car outside the fence.  Nothing I could say to him reassured him that I was not in the utmost danger from the woman.  During daylight hours, he acts differently. 

Eli The Dog is still probably evaluating your fitness for protection from him.  And your decision making abilities!  LOL


Beekissed said:


> Raw honey is in my home doctoring wheelhouse, as is castor oil, sulfur powder, iodine, peroxide(yes, I still use it on wounds, especially puncture wounds, all the new craze to the contrary....Dr. Pol still uses it too), vet wrap, various wound dressing supplies as well as syringes, antibiotic ointments, bag balm, Nustock, etc.


I have been wondering about honey as an antiseptic dressing.  It has been used on wounds and burns for thousands of years.  Of course, if I used it on the dogs would have to cover it and wrap it really well to avoid having the other dogs clean it off!  LOL


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## Ridgetop

By the way, sheep can also get mastitis - and you can treat them with Today and Tomorrow.  It is not pleasant since you have to insert the thin tube into the teat which the sheep will object to!  We had an older Suffolk ewe given to us and she freshened with only one half of her udder her 4th set of twin lambs.  She was able to raise her twins on only one half of her udder.  I treated her for mastitis but was unable to help.  I think she probably got mastitis the previous year and it was not treated by the owners who gave her to us.  After she raised her twins we sold her at the auction.


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## Baymule

A tractor will seem like a miracle just appeared. It will help y’all get a lot of work done.

Eli Dog got ripped from his home and blames you for it. Go figure the mind of a dog, not just any ol’ dog, but an Anatolian dog! He looks good, maybe he’ll warm up to you. Poor guy, his world got destroyed and now he’s in a whole ‘nother  place.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> A tractor will seem like a miracle just appeared. It will help y’all get a lot of work done.
> 
> Eli Dog got ripped from his home and blames you for it. Go figure the mind of a dog, not just any ol’ dog, but an Anatolian dog! He looks good, maybe he’ll warm up to you. Poor guy, his world got destroyed and now he’s in a whole ‘nother  place.


He felt the same way about his previous owner, apparently....she said he was friendly but aloof, which is how I would describe him....not exactly friendly but he's  not aggressive either.  I'd say submissive but anxious if I had to describe him.  It's likely from having 6 owners in 10 yrs time.


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## Baymule

6 owners in 10 years. No wonder he is distant.


----------



## Mike CHS

Baymule said:


> 6 owners in 10 years. No wonder he is distant.



That's one of those things that can't always be explained.  Look at Mel.  He has had three homes in five years and all of them loving but circumstances weren't always simple.


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## Baymule

Mel opened up his heart, Eli Dog closed his, probably more hurt than he could take.

My horse Sparkles is like Eli Dog, distant. She is 35, we’ve had her 23 years. She was abused and has never got over it. I call her compliant but distant. I have never been able to reach her. She does like to be brushed and will stand still without being tied. It took 12 YEARS for that. Some animals and some people just never get over the hurt.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Mel opened up his heart, Eli Dog closed his, probably more hurt than he could take.
> 
> My horse Sparkles is like Eli Dog, distant. She is 35, we’ve had her 23 years. She was abused and has never got over it. I call her compliant but distant. I have never been able to reach her. She does like to be brushed and will stand still without being tied. It took 12 YEARS for that. Some animals and some people just never get over the hurt.


I agree....some never trust again.  But...it was HIS fault he ran through so many owners, as he was an escape artist.  Willfully wanting his own way and refused to be confined by fencing.   To me, that's not a smart dog...if you want your home, STAY at your  home.  Any dog that doesn't stay here, doesn't GET to stay here.   The only reason Eli dog hasn't left is due to the Ecollar system...or old age.....if he runs through that, I'll attempt to catch him long enough to get the collar back and let him go.  I have no interest in keeping an animal here that wants to be free. 

Animals, much like people, having different personalities, also have a choice to obey their tendencies or overcome them and obey their master instead.   Those that obey the master usually get a life long home....usually....not always, but with these LGDs, the roamers and runners tend to get rehomed.  At my house, if you obey the rules, you get a good home for life.  Repeatedly rebel against the rules, you take a long walk to nowhere.  In Eli Dog's case, I think the only thing keeping him here is that he's too old to fend for himself any longer, too crippled to run and roam.


----------



## Ridgetop

Some Anatolians are more aloof than others.  It may just be his personality.  It is certainly a breed characteristic to be aloof from anyone except family members.  Don't take it personally.


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> Some Anatolians are more aloof than others.  It may just be his personality.  It is certainly a breed characteristic to be aloof from anyone except family members.  Don't take it personally.


I've had four other Anatolians besides this one and one Anatolian mix besides that and not a single one could be categorized as "aloof".....not even close.  In fact, I'd call them all velcro dogs and not just to family....anyone we introduce to them has a dog in their pocket from then on if they pet them.  One pet and you have to KEEP petting.  My 'Tolians LOVE attention, from anyone and everyone.  

This dog is just rather strange, is all.  I don't take it personally, but it's mildly frustrating when you do everything that usually works and the dog acts like you are public enemy #1.  It's just weird and not a bit dog-like.  The only other dogs I've met like him were all living in Rhode Island and/or with strangely aloof people....my boys and I would go to the beach and see people walking with their dogs running out ahead of them and not a single dog we met was friendly or dog-like, in that they were joyful at being at the beach nor did they run up to you to meet you and get affection.  My boys said, "Look, Mom, the dogs are just like the people!" and they were right....met one person in our 3 mo. there that was normal, kind, friendly.  The rest were actively rude and downright mean.    

I think this dog was raised by strange folk and likely developed his aloof, wary behavior from that raising.  All the dogs we raise are happy, joyful and eager to please, eager to love and be loved, no matter the breed.


----------



## Beekissed

A pic of this new paddock that I moved the sheep to late last evening....just one night and a morning in there and you can see how much eating and trampling has gone on!  We like them to stay in there at least 4-6 days...the last few paddocks have been only 4 days due to the size but this one was a tad larger in width.   






The shade shelter has been the most wise addition to our paddocks, though each paddock has some level of shade, they seem to prefer the shelter instead.  We move it daily, away from the poop deposited each day and night....LOTS of poop and trampling at this site.  This one shows a newly moved shelter, so the grass is quite clean and intact.  





Our new jump pen for the dog's automatic feeder....Pinky finally learned how to access it and get back out again.  





The water wagon, truly a godsend for a rotational grazing setup....cool water dispensed as they drink it down enough to activate the float.  No mucky, warm or algae ridden water.  No water waste.  It also holds our mineral feeder, a locker for extra dog food, a bucket full of minerals, misc. items and even a fly trap hanging overhead.  Easy to move, easy to fill and the push in stakes help to stabilize it on uneven terrain.


----------



## Baymule

I love your moving sheep caravan. My sheep much prefer a shelter as opposed to trees. They seem to feel safe in smaller confined areas.

All your hard work is showing. The pastures that started off so poorly are growing lush and showing your care. Well done!


----------



## Beekissed

I had put up fly traps in the sheep shelter and over the water wagon, but I got to thinking about that.....though they caught MANY flies, I hadn't really SEEN many flies until we put up the traps.  I think the baits in those actually brought in more flies than we actually had, so I removed all of that.   Checked the shelter and animals this evening and not a fly on any animal at all.  

I had noticed Rose running from a nasal bot fly yesterday, so this morning I put a rub of SWAT on each sheep's nose, just because.  Been using that ointment on the dog's ears this season and not a fly bitten ear to be seen...they rub it off along the ground but they can't get it all.  If they want ear rubs and pets, they are getting it with a little SWAT in my palm now and again.  

The dogs are looking GREAT now that we are back to their regular dog food~cheapy stuff from Rural King~and their continuous feeder.  They both jump in and out easily now and seem very fulfilled by getting to sample their food all day instead of eating it all at once each morning.  The Wondercide seems to be keeping them flea and tick free and I don't have to apply it much at all....only twice since I got it and not because I've seen they need it but just because I thought it was likely time. 

The sheep are  currently grazing the milkweed paddock....we'll see how they do with that.


----------



## Baymule

SWAT, what is it and where do I get it? Sentry has one ear that is fly bitten. Just one ear and no other dog. I’ve tried different stuff, but nothing keeps them away.


----------



## Mini Horses

It's a heavy fly ointment, about like petroleum jelly.  Horse area, hand sized jar.👍


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> SWAT, what is it and where do I get it? Sentry has one ear that is fly bitten. Just one ear and no other dog. I’ve tried different stuff, but nothing keeps them away.


What she said!  It's relatively cheap compared to other treatments, the ointment goes a long way and the dogs can't see I have it in my hand, ready to apply it, like they can the spray bottles.   If I'm real sneaky they can't see me dipping into the container.  

It doesn't have a strong smell, though the dogs still don't like to have it on them....I just give their ears a good massage with it, then continue on down their bodies, wiping my hands off in their fur along the way.  They think they are getting some good lovin' until the smell hits them...and it's really faint, so they have good sniffers.  

Blue doesn't mind it as much as Pinky....she will stay far away from me if she sees me anointing Blue with it, but if I start to talk to Blue about being the best dog, the favorite dog even, in my sweety voice, she simply cannot help herself and MUST come and shove in between us.   Then I anoint her too.


----------



## Baymule

Pinky is jealous! Hahaha!
Thanks for the information on SWAT, it’s on my list now.
Carson was flapping his ears, so I loaded them down with ear mite stuff. It makes my face and tongue tingle, just smelling the stuff. But he knows I’m helping him and let’s me rub his ears and massage it in. Have him a treatment yesterday, today no ear flapping.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Pinky is jealous! Hahaha!
> Thanks for the information on SWAT, it’s on my list now.
> Carson was flapping his ears, so I loaded them down with ear mite stuff. It makes my face and tongue tingle, just smelling the stuff. But he knows I’m helping him and let’s me rub his ears and massage it in. Have him a treatment yesterday, today no ear flapping.


I can pet Blue and I can give Rose a good scritchin' all I want.... but I have to do it quietly....if I start saying loving things, Pinky has to squeeze herself in between me and the offending animal to get that special kind of loving all to herself.  She's a sucker for this and I've tolled her in several times when needed, just by using the lovey voice.


----------



## Baymule

Sheba is the same way. She and Sentry have two young rams in their pasture. Every evening I sit in a lawn chair for attention time. The rams come up to be petted and scratched. Sentry adores his special time. Sheba wedges herself between me and the other 3. She even gnaws the rams heads. They know she won’t hurt them. I just need an extra set of arms.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Sheba is the same way. She and Sentry have two young rams in their pasture. Every evening I sit in a lawn chair for attention time. The rams come up to be petted and scratched. Sentry adores his special time. Sheba wedges herself between me and the other 3. She even gnaws the rams heads. They know she won’t hurt them. I just need an extra set of arms.


Yeah...those unsocialized LGDs, living outdoors all the time and never getting any attention from humans, unable to be handled.  Every time I hear about such animals and people's stereotyping these working dogs in that way, I have to laugh.  I have velcro dogs living out there and it sounds like you do too!    Never saw the inside of a house, never trotted down the aisle of TSC, but love, love, love to be handled, loved on, talked to, etc.  

Makes me wonder about this Eli Dog and his nature....he had to have been neglected as a puppy to develop such a standoffish nature, because I've not had a dog yet that didn't love to be petted and would come willingly to get it.


----------



## Beekissed

Well....found out the fly traps were not attracting flies instead of getting rid of them....the flies are back, with a vengeance.  So, ordering the better traps but reusable, so we can get more life out of each trap.  The green netting ones were crap, waste of money.   The Rescu fly traps were the bomb diggity!


----------



## Beekissed

Found Pinky Pie this morning with massive facial swelling and edema, unable to open her mouth without screaming, drooling and overall a very downcast dog.  I couldn't find a single wound on her, but couldn't open her mouth to see if she had punctured herself inside....she chews on sticks constantly...and the area was not hot to the touch.   

So, figured a vet visit was needed, as I didn't have the kind of meds on hand to help her with the swelling~but I will from now on!!!  Will be ordering some home vetting meds ASAP so we can do these things at home.  I'm a nurse, so most things I can assess here and treat here....if I feel I'm out of my league I can always take them to the vet.   Why would I want to do it here?   Because ALL the meds given to her today were twice what they'd charge a human for them, sometimes 3 times the price.  

An exam, a shot of prednisone, one of Benadryl and a rabies vax(HAD to...they won't let you escape without one but I would have refused if I could have done so), plus a bottle of PO Prednisone all cost us $325!!!!!!   

Let me recap....a steroid shot, an antihistamine shot, a rabies shot and a bottle of pills that would cost me $11 at the pharmacy~plus a very brief exam~ cost $325!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  _(Now, I know that's not much to you folks who vet frequently, but it was sticker shock to someone who rarely darkens a vet's door....mostly just for spay, neuters and emergencies, which are all few and far between....sometimes many years between.)_

I was so very proud of Pinky....never been in a crate, hadn't been in a car since she was 8 wks old, never been inside a building, HATES to walk on the leash but did so like a trouper, didn't make a peep all the way to town, while in the clinic, and all the way back.  Never been tied up, but was tied in Joel's back yard for a bit while we kept an appointment.....laid down and didn't make a peep....and was just the sweetest love bug throughout the whole experience.   She stuck to me like glue, followed where I led her, and was just the best dog all day long.   She is currently tied to the zip line so we can monitor her and give her meds the next few days...didn't make a peep about that either.   First time away from Blue and her flock and hasn't shown a bit of anxiety all day long.  

What a good dog!!!!!  And she weighed 76 lbs,  at 9 mo., so she's got some growing and filling out to do yet.  I'd say she'll make it to 90~100 by adulthood, which is exactly where she should be.   Blue is likely already at 90 and will likely top out at 110-120 by 4 yrs of age and that's exactly where he should be too.  

They saw a piece of flea collar zip tied to her collar and immediately stated she would have to be treated for fleas and I shut them down on that....told her she had an allergic reaction to the collar, hence it being zip tied away from her skin, so I didn't want to risk her reacting to topical or PO flea preparations.  So, they hurried to get a flea comb and said if they found any evidence of fleas she would HAVE to have flea treatment.....they couldn't find a flea or flea poop anywhere, didn't even find any dirt on her skin.  They seemed amazed!   Especially when we told them she'd never had a bath, never had chemical flea treatments except for the one exposure to the flea collar that broke her out.  

They also seemed amazed at how well behaved she was~and I quote~"considering how she was raised", after we told them she has lived in the field with the sheep since she was 8 wks old.  

All in all, it was an eye opening day, both for us and for the vet staff, I guess.  We are going to become better prepared here, that's for sure!


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## Mini Horses

So sorry about Pinkie. .  My first thought was snakebite, probably you too.    But you have seen what many are forced to endure with vet prices!   As a nurse, you are quite capable of so many of the day to day things...shots, sutures, Lance, meds.

There are many med options out there that can be bought online, from reputable sources.  My vet was very instrumental in training ME to perform many of these practices.  I was fortunate .  He was horse, farm and exotic trained and practicing. 

Pls keep us updated on Pinkie.  I'm sure she's getting the best of care!

I don't say vets or human doctors are not due their fees. Just that we can't always afford them!


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## Beekissed

Mini Horses said:


> So sorry about Pinkie. .  My first thought was snakebite, probably you too.    But you have seen what many are forced to endure with vet prices!   As a nurse, you are quite capable of so many of the day to day things...shots, sutures, Lance, meds.
> 
> There are many med options out there that can be bought online, from reputable sources.  My vet was very instrumental in training ME to perform many of these practices.  I was fortunate .  He was horse, farm and exotic trained and practicing.
> 
> Pls keep us updated on Pinkie.  I'm sure she's getting the best of care!
> 
> I don't say vets or human doctors are not due their fees. Just that we can't always afford them!


Amen!  You have been blessed to have a vet to mentor you, that's for sure.  Just recently I found what meds and equipment are out there for the general public to buy and I was shocked....and pleased!  We will be slowly but surely putting together a vet kit, both for the dogs and for the sheep...and it could come in real handy for humans down the line.  

Within minutes of getting the steroid and Benadryl injection her face was losing the swelling...you could visibly see her pain being relieved when that happened.  The tail started waving gently and she started to look around and enjoy her new experience a little.  

Yes, I was thinking snakebite too as I had never seen a dog get a bee sting that swelled so much and lasted so long(I heard her yelp as we were leaving the paddock yesterday morning and saw her run out of the sheep shelter...thought one of the sheep had stepped on her foot, which has happened before, so didn't think much about it until seeing her face this morning!).  

 So, so glad it wasn't snakebite!!! Would have had to take her 2 hrs down state to the nearest antivenom and she would have had to have antibiotics and who knows what else also.  Bay knows, I think she's had snake bit dogs a few times or three.


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## Baymule

It was a bee sting? Wow! I was thinking snakebite too. I treat my dogs for copperhead bites with Benadryl, 1 baby aspirin and Arnicare pills for pain. Every 4 hours, up to 3 or 4 doses. Only had to go to 4th dose once, for Trip. His front leg, chest and neck was terribly swollen. It took 3 days to go down enough that he would let me look at it. There was a quarter sized hole (from him licking it) on the inside of his leg, up near his chest. It was the worst one yet.

A rattlesnake bite would kill them.

Pinky behaved herself so well because she has 100% trust in you. That is a true working partner ship in that shows how she is treated, trained and loved. Pinkie, girl, you done good.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> It was a bee sting? Wow! I was thinking snakebite too. I treat my dogs for copperhead bites with Benadryl, 1 baby aspirin and Arnicare pills for pain. Every 4 hours, up to 3 or 4 doses. Only had to go to 4th dose once, for Trip. His front leg, chest and neck was terribly swollen. It took 3 days to go down enough that he would let me look at it. There was a quarter sized hole (from him licking it) on the inside of his leg, up near his chest. It was the worst one yet.
> 
> A rattlesnake bite would kill them.
> 
> Pinky behaved herself so well because she has 100% trust in you. That is a true working partner ship in that shows how she is treated, trained and loved. Pinkie, girl, you done good.


Now I'll know what to do if they DO get bit, thank you, Bay!!!!  I think she may have swallowed this bee and gotten stung in her throat, as she is still having trouble swallowing water even.  Couldn't swallow her own drool for a good while.  

I think you are right about the trust, as I've not really had any time at all to train this pup on any leash or obedience work~a few failed tries at leash training and that's about it....she just followed me and stayed glued to my leg.  She wouldn't follow Eli nor come to him during this at all...just me.  Food bringer, ya know.     Normally she LOVES Eli...all the dogs do, but when you are hurting, you want a mother, ya know?  

She laid her head on my shoulder and just shut her eyes while we waited for the meds to take effect....so much trust in that.


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## Beekissed

@Baymule...we are thinking of changing up our mineral mix and I know you had mentioned you feed one that has a little Cu in it and was wondering about the name of it?  Or was that someone else, perhaps?


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## Baymule

I feed a Dumor mineral mix from Tractor Supply, dolomite lime, and Azomite, a rock dust from an ancient lava flow out of Utah. I feed a 14% all purpose pellet with 5ppm to 15ppm of copper. If they get too much copper, the dolomite lime is supposed to neutralize it.


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## Baymule

That is so sweet about Pinkie laying her head on your shoulder.

With that reaction, you reckon it might have been a Yellowjacket or a hornet?


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> That is so sweet about Pinkie laying her head on your shoulder.
> 
> With that reaction, you reckon it might have been a Yellowjacket or a hornet?


I was thinking it must have been something pretty bad and possibly she snapped at it like she does a horse fly and got stung inside her mouth.  We cannot see a sting site outside and she's still so swollen internally that she's having trouble eating and drinking.  And this happened yesterday morning!  Can't open her mouth to look inside as it seems she can't open her mouth without pain...she's able to hold it open further since the meds but it still seems pretty affected. 

Put her meds in a piece of weenie this evening and had the hardest time getting her to eat it(NOT like her...she's a hog or food!) and she seemed unable to chew it.  She sort of mouthed it a little and I think it went down but she's not biting down hard at all. 

I felt so sorry for her, Bay....she's a big sissy, in the first place, so when she hurts it's all about the drama.  She clung to me like a little kid all throughout the visit to the vet and afterward....her favorite thing to do is walk between my legs and stand between them.  Don't know why, never had a dog do that, but she did that after she got out of the initial pain and swelling and did it again when I went up to feed her the weenie, so that tells me she's getting back to herself but I can't imagine WHAT kind of BEE could DO that to a dog???   She's still pretty swollen under her chin and you can tell she's still hurting.

Oh, and thanks for the info!  I was thinking you were feeding a mineral mix with Cu but it's a feed, instead.  I would love to find a loose mineral that had Cu but not as much as goat mix....nigh impossible, I tell ya!  I've done search after search and cannot locate such a thing.


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## Baymule

Once I put them on this feed, the brownish tinge on the black marked sheep shed out and grew in black.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Once I put them on this feed, the brownish tinge on the black marked sheep shed out and grew in black.


I've had people argue vehemently that it just doesn't happen...that the brown wool doesn't turn back to black but I've seen it happen on Shine, though hers didn't shed out, it just turned back to black, as this was at the beginning of summer.  

Right now she's a little more red around her edges than I have ever seen on her and I use her as sort of the canary in the mine for the rest of the flock....her wool color tells me if the flock is getting enough copper in their mix or not.


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## Kusanar

Beekissed said:


> I've had people argue vehemently that it just doesn't happen...that the brown wool doesn't turn back to black but I've seen it happen on Shine, though hers didn't shed out, it just turned back to black, as this was at the beginning of summer.


Could it be possible that the red bleached wool is weaker and it is just breaking off at the tips and the healthier wool is coming in behind it? I know with horses if you get one with a real bleached out coat that the hair is brittle and almost crunchy as opposed to another horse in the same pasture (same sun exposure) that did not bleach and has a softer coat.


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## Baymule

Ewenique is my mostly black ewe and is a healthy black color. When shedding, she tinges brown, but has black hair underneath.
@Kusanar hair sheep actually need a little more copper than what most wool sheep can tolerate. It’s a delicate balance.


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## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> Ewenique is my mostly black ewe and is a healthy black color. When shedding, she tinges brown, but has black hair underneath.
> @Kusanar hair sheep actually need a little more copper than what most wool sheep can tolerate. It’s a delicate balance.


Understood, horses do the same thing. Dark colored horses will bleach if their diet isn't right and there is at least one supplement "black as knight" that is to keep them dark and glossy and it's pretty copper heavy. But when the coat gets unhealthy and bleachy their hair also gets crunchy and is prone to being rubbed off by tack. So, it seems like that nearly instant color shift could be caused by the unhealthy tips being rubbed out through natural wear and tear and the healthier and jet black hair coming in behind it.


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## Beekissed

Kusanar said:


> Could it be possible that the red bleached wool is weaker and it is just breaking off at the tips and the healthier wool is coming in behind it? I know with horses if you get one with a real bleached out coat that the hair is brittle and almost crunchy as opposed to another horse in the same pasture (same sun exposure) that did not bleach and has a softer coat.


Not in this case....she started getting a red tinge to her spring to summer wool when I was out of minerals for a time, then turned quickly back to black wool when the minerals were replenished~all of this happened in a few week's time.  This sheep has a very short, nappy wool/hair coat, so doesn't have long threads at all~1/4 in at its longest at that time of year.  Since it was the hair/wool on the top of her back and wouldn't have broken off unless she rubbed it on something and I would have noticed her doing so....they were right here in the back yard at the time and I'm out there every day for most of the day...I'm doubting it became brittle or broke off.  Hair sheep don't produce much wool as it is and it doesn't grow much in the spring/summer months at all...they usually stay pretty slick and shiny then. 

Right now my mineral mix is off a bit and she's showing a little red tinge in the creases of her legs where they join the body(not much hair there at all and hardly any wool fibers), but not along her back where most sun fading would take place.  Just a little redness around the edges of her body, not much, which tells me her copper intake is less, either in the graze in that field or in her mineral intake.


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## Beekissed

Update on Pinky....she's doing MUCH better this evening, following the lambs all over this brush paddock beside the house and barking just fine when I called her for her meds....came down the hill, acting as per usual and I can't see any residual swelling left.  She had eaten her food and also ate her med laced weenie just fine.   

Final analysis of her bee event is likely yellowjackets.  I found small pink dots on her muzzle, one on the nose, one on her lip, one on the folds of her lip and she whimpered this morning when I passed the brush over one of her hips, which she has never done.   Yellowjacket nest....we'll look for it and destroy it so we won't get into it when we mow that paddock and so the animals won't have to get stung again.  

So glad that is all it was and so glad Pinky is back in the pink.  Heh, heh!


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## Baymule

I’m so glad Pinkie is so much better. Fipronil or however you spell it will wipe out a yellow jacket nest. It’s the drops you put on dogs for fleas. Find the nest. Mix the fipronil fog flea drops with canned cat food, a few drops to a small amount of cat food. Put it up high to keep other animals out. Make sure the dogs can’t get to it. Put out fresh each day. They take it back to the nest, feed it to the larvae, the Queen and workers.


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## Mini Horses

Hopefully you will be able to rotate flock to another field and then go after the yellow jackets.  

Glad Pinkie is doing well.

Question....did Pinkie come from a litter in WV?    I'm looking .


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## Beekissed

Mini Horses said:


> Hopefully you will be able to rotate flock to another field and then go after the yellow jackets.
> 
> Glad Pinkie is doing well.
> 
> Question....did Pinkie come from a litter in WV?    I'm looking .


She came from one up in OH, about 3 hrs from us here.  Seems like any and all Anatolians are 3-4 hrs from us here, which is why I'm interested in breeding these two every now and again....once, for sure, to bring up some replacement/extra help here and also so folks won't have to go so far to get a good Anatolian that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.  

In Beverly WV, I do believe the Teter Farm raises up batches of pups now and again and they seem to have a GREAT reputation, I just never needed a dog exactly when their pups have come available...they seem to be like me in that they only breed for when they need extra dogs themselves.  



			Teter Farm | SHEEP
		


Seems to be quite a few Anatolian breeders in VA, but not sure about their dogs and reputation.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I’m so glad Pinkie is so much better. Fipronil or however you spell it will wipe out a yellow jacket nest. It’s the drops you put on dogs for fleas. Find the nest. Mix the fipronil fog flea drops with canned cat food, a few drops to a small amount of cat food. Put it up high to keep other animals out. Make sure the dogs can’t get to it. Put out fresh each day. They take it back to the nest, feed it to the larvae, the Queen and workers.


We normally just pour gas or kerosene down their holes and later on, set it on fire.   This is one reason folks shouldn't be in a hurry to kill skunks...skunks LOVE to dig up and eat yellowjackets and ground hornet nests.  

I've not located the nest, even after observing that spot in the paddock for some time, to see if I can see the bees coming and going.  

Side note...put out more of the fly traps, but this time we ordered the reusable containers(plastic jar) instead of the throw away pouches.  I don't see a fly one on the dogs or stock since putting up the new traps yesterday morning...but the traps are doing brisk business, with an inch or so of flies in the water already.  Will keep these jugs and reuse them for as long as they hold together.


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## Beekissed

Never did find that yellowjacket nest.   That field has a large leach bed in it that isn't working properly, so there were two paddocks that had sopping wet ground and even water standing on the surface....NOT clean water.  One of the sheep got hoof scald shortly after grazing the first paddock for 4 days and was walking on her knees in the second paddock, though all feet were affected....I caught her up and took a whiff of the area between the hooves and it smelled like fungal rot.  

At the time I didn't have anything with me to treat it, so I sloshed some ACV on the areas as best I could, as I had a jug of it on the water wagon.   By the next day she was off her knees but still hobbling along, limping still.  They rotated out of that paddock by the next day, so that had to help also.  

Eli was off work by the day after that day, so I had him help me catch her(she's one of the wildest ones and I only caught her by myself due to her being on her knees)and I sprayed the area with an iodine solution.  Two days later and she's no longer limping at all, fast as a deer and looking well.  

Big Red also showed some effects from those bad paddocks....noticed one of his testes was just the tiniest bit lower than the other.  Every time I've seen that in these ram lambs, it means they had worms of some kind....in this field, not having been grazed for 25 yrs except for by deer, the likely culprit is barber pole worms.  Caught him with the use of a peanut butter dog biscuit, clipped him to the 4 wheeler, checked eyelids and they were a bit more pale than I would like to see, so I dosed him with ACV w/mother, garlic juice, walnut/wormwood/clove extract and a dab of soap.  He gagged it down and I felt sorry for him, as it had to be some NASTY stuff.  But...his balls are hanging even once again and he's feeling more dauncy, I can tell, as I can't catch him even with the lure of a biscuit.  I'd like to dose him again for good measure, but even Eli couldn't catch him....I see that as a good sign and will leave him alone.   

We will no longer let them graze that part of the field and will try to load that part up with mulch round bales so we won't have to take the tractor in there to keep it cut down.  The round bales should be able to absorb all that surface water and also effectively suppress any grass or weed growth there.


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## Baymule

Good thing you realized that and got the sheep out of there.


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## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> Good thing you realized that and got the sheep out of there.


They got that septic pumped in late winter/early spring but it didn't correct the situation....then I found out who put their septic in and it all became clear.  That leach bed will NEVER act correctly, so we will try to rectify it from up above by laying more soil down on it with the use of mulch bales.


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## Beekissed

And that's all, folks!  Due to censorship of the truth on this site, they will no longer be using my posts to generate hits and money from advertisers.  It's been lovely to know some of you....you know who you are!  Bless you and stand for truth...it could save a life or two.


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