# Sick goats,help



## Blue Dog Farms (Aug 29, 2011)

A neighbor of mine is having a very difficult time right now. His wife is very sick and now his goats are going down, fast. He has lost several this year, one of which I have the baby from as she died 2 days after giving birth to him. These are nubiens. They show like they are wormey, loosing weight, pale lids ect but we have wormed them. Ivermectin and valbazon. Given red cell to most and now we are giving B shots daily. My baby that I got from them is giving me a hard time too, scrawney wormy looking but no diarhea and he has had the same treatment. We have not sent out fecals yet. Now one of the bottle babies that isnt even living on the property and the oldest one are both having foamy saliva. This is not real new apperantly, so not bloat. Any ideas?? Today i bought a meat maker mineral bucket and put it out there. They have lots of browse and are grained daily as far as I know. Any thoughts?


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## elevan (Aug 29, 2011)

Fecals should be done right away...barring that...

Worm them with Cydectin or Prohibit.  Many farms have worms that are resistant to valbazen and ivermectin.  (See parasite management link in my signature for more information on resistance).

And don't lump the bottle babies on your farm into the same bunch as this guys goats even if they came from the same herd you could be dealing with 2 different issues...what I'm saying is don't assume that you're dealing with exactly what this guy is dealing with.


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## Blue Dog Farms (Aug 29, 2011)

I only have one of the bottle babies, the one with the foaming issue is his and doesnt live on the property but does go to the property.  He ended up with 3 bottle babies this year when 2 of his does passed shortly after giving birth. Very very scarey stuff, my heart is really going out to him. Hes a very nice man Thanks I will try the other wormers, and I will see about the fecals. I cant personally dump a ton of money into these guys, as much as I want to but I will do what I can.


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## Roll farms (Aug 29, 2011)

I agree fecals are called for...it's *probably* coccidia w/ the kids but....could also be several other things or cocci and something...

If you're using the sheep dosage for goats w/ the valbazen, it's not going to work in most places.  
I use it at 2x the dosage, or 3x w/ a really wormy doe.  
I have combined the valbazen w/ ivomec and given at the same time.  Repeat weekly for 1 month.  I'm reading that deworming on an empty stomach helps a lot.

Copper bolus them if possible.  If not, keep up the red cell.


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 30, 2011)

I would say more than one issue,  probably a mineral deficiency, and parasite load combined. the two feed off of each other. 

I would put them on free-choice loose minerals
Worm them weekly with a stronger dosage of valbazene and ivermectin like Roll said
or switch to even a stronger wormer.  
Worm weekly for atleast 3 weeks.
treat the entire herd for coccidiosis for 5 days in a row. Personally if it were me, I would just put Corid in the water for 5 or 6 days. 

What about Vaccinations? CD&T  Any of them up to date. 

The does dying after birthing could be two things in my opinion, they didn't clean out well enough and had something retained and died of infection. 

They had a parasite bloom from the stress of kidding. 

Did you treat your baby for coccidiosis?  ON a single baby or just a few I would treat orally. 

Some of the weaker goats may also benifit from Penn G shots.  this could be a big job saving all of them. The thing about anemia and worm load is it becomes a nasty cirlce of the animal being run down from the parsites, making then even more acceptable, so you worm them and may or may not get a good kill on the worms and then they are too anemic and mineral deficient to fight off the next round of worms, normally 14 to 21 days later and they just go down hill again.  Red cell, iron shots, loose minerals, Bo-se shots, copper bolusing can help break the cycle. Takes around 6 to 8 weeks to build the animal back up. 

Have any of his goats ever had Bo-se shots? 

What about injectable iron for pigs for some of the more anemic goats, It is pretty cheap to buy, OTC


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## cmjust0 (Aug 30, 2011)

Do most of the adults still have kids on them?


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## Blue Dog Farms (Aug 30, 2011)

Most adults do have kids on them, im sure vacines are not up to date, have not treated my boy but did buy the treatment, will start it tomorrow. Now today their neighbor has a goat thinking menigeal worms with him, they lost one a few mnths nack to what they think is that. They both back up to swamp and the goats go back there and deer are back in the woods too. I back up to the swamp but my fence stops before it gets wet  what a mess


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 31, 2011)

you have a big job on your hands trying to save this herd. Is he able to pay for the treatments and supplies, just needs advice and man power?    Do you have a way to pen up the herd into a smaller area for treatment and better control of them, feeding them hay and grain instead of pasture for a little while until they are in better health?  Sometimes getting them off of pasture can help slow down the coccidiosis and worms. But I wouldn't lock them up in a barn out of the sun. 

How many are there?


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## cmjust0 (Aug 31, 2011)

Let me rearrange the comments a bit to shed some light on my thought process...



			
				G&H Farms said:
			
		

> A neighbor of mine is having a very difficult time right now. His wife is very sick and now his goats are going down, fast.





			
				G&H Farms said:
			
		

> These are nubiens.





			
				G&H Farms said:
			
		

> Most adults do have kids on them





			
				G&H Farms said:
			
		

> They show like they are wormey, loosing weight, pale lids ect but we have wormed them. ... They have lots of browse and are grained daily as far as I know.


My experience is that a goat with too little body condition will have paler eyelids than one with plenty of condition..  And goats -- especially *dairy* goats -- that still have kids on them in September (assuming they were born when nubian kids are normally born, from about early Februaryish thru late Aprilish) are absolutely, positively going to have lost a good deal of condition as a result of the kids nursing..  Nubian milk is high in fat, like around 5%..  So if the goat's giving, say, 7lbs of milk a day, that's about a pound of pure fat the goat's shedding every three days.  Or, 10lbs a month..  And these goats have most likely had kids on them for 5 months or more...that's 50lbs of pure fat, gone.

And that doesn't even get into protein, which would result in muscle loss, which would result in a highly visible spine, spindly neck and legs, etc.. 

Having said that, I'm not really convinced that there's a health crisis going on here..  I think it's worth considering the possibility that the goats which have been lost so far were lost as a result of the owner having to shift his focus to his wife and not really having time to fool with the goats, and that the reason they're going downhill in terms of condition may very simply be the result of having unweaned babies running them ragged..

As such, my suggestions would be:

1) Wean, ASAP.
2) _Feed._


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 31, 2011)

weaning is a good idea, How old are the kids?


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## Livinwright Farm (Aug 31, 2011)

As far as pale lids go, definitely give them a dose a day of red cell until you seel improvement in color.


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## Blue Dog Farms (Sep 1, 2011)

the babies are 2-3mnths .  One of the bottle babies is showing signs of meningeal worms now, the neighbor just lost her pygmy buck to suspected meningeal worms. They both live on wooded property with swampy areas in the back so prime area for them. I dont believe this is the issue with all the does but with all the rain we have had and their nutrition not being the best I do believe worms are partially to blame here. The main doe I have been going over to care for is looking a little better. Still pale lids but a little pinker and she has more energy. I have been giving her b daily along with the sweet lix yesterday I took over beet pulp with electrolytes she was a little dehydrated.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 1, 2011)

So, the babies were born early june through early july?  That would mean they were bred in January and February..  Is that right?  Not saying that never happens or anything, but that's kind of an odd time for a gaggle of goat babies to be born..


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 1, 2011)

that is a horrible time of year for does to be nursing. we bred 4 for a june kidding and the does look like crap, now.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 2, 2011)

Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking too..  Either the kids are already huge (like, more than 2-3mos old) and have run the does ragged all Spring, or they're starting to get really big just as all the graze and browse is sorta finishing up for the year..  Either way, it's not a great situation..  

Definitely wean those babies if the goal is to put weight on the does..  It's virtually impossible to fatten a doe that's nursing or being milked...especially a dairy doe.  The more you feed, the more milk she'll produce.  I had some kids on does for too long once and the does actually got *worse* with more feed..  I cut them off feed entirely and they lost a little more weight, "magically" decided to bounce their kids off the teat, dried off, stopped losing condition, and actually began slowly gaining again......on zero supplemental bagged feed.

I know that runs counter to pretty much everything you'll ever read, and I'm not *suggesting* it by any means, and it's not something I was happy about having to do...but I did it, mostly because I didn't have much else of a choice at the time..  I'd much rather have gotten rid of the kids and kept feeding, but...well...there were some odd circumstances.  I'll leave it at that.


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