# Going to be getting a horse soon; need advise on how to pick right...



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 7, 2013)

*I had a Morgan that I loved as a teen/ young adult. I used to ride him 50-60 miles a week and was training to do endurance riding. I eventually had to sell him (out of my control) but he went to a great home.

Fast forward 13 years; I was fortunate enough to find a riding buddy who has taken me out for the last year and a half roughly two times a week, I have also got to take some lessons at her place.

Fast forward another year and we are now living on the same property as said horse friend! She has 4 horses but they are older and hers. 

I think I am ready to get another horse! I have been dreaming about the day when I could finally get another one. 

So I have been looking on craigslist and on some local ads and also the equine rescue.

I want to be very particular about the horse I acquire as I really want it to be the right one for me. I plan on keeping this horse until it dies of old age!

I am a very confident intermediate+ rider and I REALLY want to do some of the local endurance races. There are quite a few 15 and 20 milers around here. 

So I am POSITIVE that I want an arab or arab cross. But I am running across a couple problems (maybe you folks could help me out)...

1. I am a big girl, 5'9 and 180 pounds (trying to lose), which is pretty big for an arab, and especially because they say the weight with you and tack should not exceed 20% of the horses weight, so I would need at least a 1000 pound arab?

2. I have inquired about a lot of arab ads, but EVERY single one has said "yes it's an arab, it'll be good for endurance"... I get it, but how do I REALLY know that that one is a good one and not just another arab...

I would love any help/ suggestions/ advise or anything else!

Thanks in advance!*


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 7, 2013)

*Here is a nice one I've seen; I really like this guy!

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/grd/3515558522.html*


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## Mamaboid (Jan 7, 2013)

I am puzzled, may I ask a question?  You said you grew up riding a Morgan, right, so what makes you want an Arab now?  The reason I ask is, I had 7 horses, quarters, mustang crosses, tenn walker, and the most comfortable, dependable easily trained of all of them was a "Park" Morgan.  She would go forever, do whatever she was asked, and never met a test she couldn't pass.  Plus, she made beautiful babies.  Just curious as to why you wouldn't want to go back to another Morgan, not being nasty or mean in any way, just curious.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 7, 2013)

I'm not sure exactly what the percentage is for endurance but going by your 20%, then you would also need to include tack weight. Finding a 1000 lb Arab isn't difficult. They come in many sizes.  Perhaps you can find a Morab, so some other cross. Don't limit yourself to pure Arabs. 

My main advice is GET A PPE if you are serious about buying a horse and keeping it for life. You can also do a 30 day trial to see if its a good fit. 

If you want to do endurance, I would hook up with local endurance peeps and network through them to find the perfect horse.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 7, 2013)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

> I am puzzled, may I ask a question?  You said you grew up riding a Morgan, right, so what makes you want an Arab now?  The reason I ask is, I had 7 horses, quarters, mustang crosses, tenn walker, and the most comfortable, dependable easily trained of all of them was a "Park" Morgan.  She would go forever, do whatever she was asked, and never met a test she couldn't pass.  Plus, she made beautiful babies.  Just curious as to why you wouldn't want to go back to another Morgan, not being nasty or mean in any way, just curious.


*I'm open to Morgans again, it's just that everyone around here says arab arab arab when they hear endurance....*


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 7, 2013)

PendergrassRanch said:
			
		

> I'm not sure exactly what the percentage is for endurance but going by your 20%, then you would also need to include tack weight. Finding a 1000 lb Arab isn't difficult. They come in many sizes.  Perhaps you can find a Morab, so some other cross. Don't limit yourself to pure Arabs.
> 
> My main advice is GET A PPE if you are serious about buying a horse and keeping it for life. You can also do a 30 day trial to see if its a good fit.
> 
> If you want to do endurance, I would hook up with local endurance peeps and network through them to find the perfect horse.


*


Most of the Arabs I have seen have been much smaller than that... I will keep looking of course!


Sorry I am not familiar with the acronym PPE, can you please tell me more?


Great idea about the endurance club! I will check into that!*


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 7, 2013)

I have a Belgian and a Percheron.  Love them.  I will never have anything but a draft....

I say find a horse person you can trust to be your guide, mentor, sounding board to discuss.


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 8, 2013)

Absolute BEST advice I can give is GET A VET CHECK!! It is worth every single penny and then some. It is just too easy (especially in this economy of free horses everywhere) for someone to bute up a lame horse (or an high spirited horse or an untrained horse, etc). 

I lost 2500 on just such a situation... It was a first time purchase for me, the lady seemed SO nice and had other horses, was very friendly, etc. Well, that mare had such severe ringbone issues, we had to put her to sleep. I could never have ridden her, and I couldn't afford a boarding fee for an un-usable horse and there was no market for a lame horse. The vet that checked her after I bought her  (a few days after purchase when I noticed a limp) told me the mare HAD to have been sedated, NO way could I have ridden her when I went to see her without noticing a severe limp. (which I didn't notice and I did ride her that day.

Next horse got a thorough vet check before purchase and we still have her 8 years later.

Other bit of advice is to try to buy from someone with a good reputation, someone that has sold a horse or two to someone you know. 

Wish you the best of luck! The right horse is PRICELESS.... an amazing being to be loved and respected and enjoyed for many many years.

I think PPE = Pre Purchase Exam (same thing as vet check)


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 8, 2013)

Vet Check - Very good advice.

And remember, Free is Free for a reason.  Be careful of Free.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 8, 2013)

Yep, PPE is Pre Purchase Exam. Many people do not get one but for a sport horse, it is essential.


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 8, 2013)

Endurance rider here!

Arabs DO dominate the sport of endurance riding. DOMINATE as in win world champs, WEG, etc... However, for shorter rides or for endurance riders who just want to do the ride, get the coffee mug and rack up the miles, virtually any horse can do that. At endurance rides, I havepersonally  seen Arabs, half-Arabs, Percherons, Peruvian Pasos, Tennessee Walkers, Morgans, Paints, Welsh Ponies, non-descript ponies, Icelandics, Thoroughbreds, Quarter Horses, Mustangs, Saddlebreds, Standardbreds, Appaloosas, mules and Trakehners compete. Yes, the Arabs and half-Arabs tend to "win" but all breeds can compete. Mules, donkeys and zebras can even compete.

Not all Arabs can physically or have the mental ability to do endurance.

You want a sound horse (duh). 8" canon bones circumference measured below the knee, good-sized hooves, big hindquarters and a good back. You want the muscling to be "flat" but plenty of bulky muscled horses can do shorter distances with conditioning. 

The horse should know all the basics. Unless you want to start from scratch, it's best to get a horse that has some trail experience already. The horse should be a "steady eddy" type, exposed to water, bridges, logs, wildlife, different weather and "scary objects" like old mattresses and deer blinds. The horse should be able to go out alone and in a group. It should be the same horse if it is in the lead, middle or following. My horse, for example, likes to either lead or bring up the rear. She hates being in the middle and tends to buck and act up if she's between horses. 

The horse should have an easy, flowing ground-covering stride. Avoid a horse with a lot of knee action, no matter how impressive it looks. The horse should go "on the bit" or at the very least stretch down while trotting. It's much better on the horse's back and front end than a horse who trots 25+ miles with its nose in the air. 

In addition to Arabians, a lot of the heavier riders here in Michigan ride Appaloosas, Standardbreds and Arab crosses of those two breeds. If you decide to go with an Appy (the Appaloosa Horse Club and Arabian Horse Association both have a lot of distance riding incentives), go with a foundation "Indian Pony" Appy rather than a "Spotted Quarter Horse" Appy. I.e. one with leaner muscling. Bill Wilson, a US National Endurance Champion from Ontario, Canada who rides at a lot of the Michigan rides competes on Standardbred and Stanardbred crosses.

Check out American Endurance Ride Conference's website. They have a huge classified section with horses and tack.


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## GLENMAR (Jan 8, 2013)

Arabs can carry more weight for their size then other breeds. Here's some of mine from earlier years.
I think an arabian would be perfect for you.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 8, 2013)

*Thank you Michickenwrangler! I just got the website and some contacts for the local endurance groups around here. 

Did you see the ad I posted about the one I was looking at? There is a video of him, what do you think?




Glenmar- those horses are gorgeous!!!!*


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 9, 2013)

I just went to check it out, but the ad had expired.

You may also want to look at www.arabianhorses.org  on the marketplace tab. You can put in your state and endurance or trail under discipline. Mind you, the prices are generally higher on here than on CL. There is a separate tab for Arabians and Half-Arabians. There is also some distance riding info on the Arabian site since so many Arabs compete in it, but the info can be applied to all-breeds.


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## GLENMAR (Jan 9, 2013)

I think the one you were looking at looked very nice. He also looked young. You would need to put a lot of time into him.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 9, 2013)

GLENMAR said:
			
		

> I think the one you were looking at looked very nice. He also looked young. You would need to put a lot of time into him.


*Yes he was young, 3. I don't mind putting the time into one. We work from home and ride 3-4 days a week as it is. *


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 10, 2013)

*Well I talked to one of the local trainers and fortunately she is very familiar with his lines and the breeder. She said he breeds halter horses and as such they are VERY VERY hot, crazy, high strung and sensitive and she said I should steer cllllleeeeaaaaarrrrrr away from that whole line. So at least that's good to know! No wonder he was so pretty... Sigh... *


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## boothcreek (Jan 10, 2013)

Go with a Shagya, world wide one of the breeds that always places at or near the top of endurance competitions. And no its not "just another arab", they are destinctly different breed originally bred for military purposes. Awesome calm breed with arab character traits(very bonded/loyal, smart etc) in a more robust build body with arab flair.

Then again I am biased since we own/breed them.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 10, 2013)

boothcreek said:
			
		

> Go with a Shagya, world wide one of the breeds that always places at or near the top of endurance competitions. And no its not "just another arab", they are destinctly different breed originally bred for military purposes. Awesome calm breed with arab character traits(very bonded/loyal, smart etc) in a more robust build body with arab flair.
> 
> Then again I am biased since we own/breed them.


*

Wow those are AMAZING!!! 

I have never heard of them and just looked them up. They look like EXACTLY what I am looking for... amazing! 

I seriously doubt we have them anywhere around here though, they look like they are very rare. *


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## boothcreek (Jan 10, 2013)

There are a few breeders in the western united states. I am sure we could find you someone near or in Cal.... 

I know there are more shagyas in the US then Canada at any rate, out of the 8 registered ones in canada we own 4, the other 2 breeders are at the opposit end of the country.
The US population of pure and partbred shagya is around 150 or so.


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 10, 2013)

I think there are some Shagya breeders in California and Nevada. I remember seeing something about some in the Western States Endurance Ride aka Tevis Cup and some are advertised at stud in Arabian publications.

However, a Shagya is not a purebred Arabian and cannot be registered with AHA. Bred to a purebred, offspring are eligible for half-Arab. Again, the main disadvantage is rarity and cost. Even if one ended up in someone's backyard via auction, rescue or giveaway, it would probably just be called an Arab or part-Arab.

But good luck with your search


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## boothcreek (Jan 10, 2013)

Shagya is purebred, they are not an arab in the sense of egyptian or russian, they are their own breed. The clubs are looking to drop the arab part of their name cause that just seems to confuse people. They are not like an anglo arab which is a f1 cross(at least in europe anglos are that).

They have been pure for hundreds of years. Started from arabs, like so many other breeds, just never dropped the arab part of their name.

You can cross them with regular arabs and register them with NASS, ASAV, PShR, ISG etc as partbred Shagyas or Sportlos. I honestly am not for it being allowed to register mixed breeds like that because it doesnt help the breed but that just my opinion..... but everyone is whining there are no pure shagya mares to breed to since everyone is always only importing stallions from europe, not mares  (we brought four 100% pure mares with us, was less hassle then the stud was with the regulations  ).  

PS: the last 3 world endurance championships(in dubai i think they were) have been won by shagyas- fyi .


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 10, 2013)

*I did find a breeder in Nor Cal, but it looks like they are between 8-10,000 dollars each.... wayyyyyyy out of my budget... I think I will probably end up rescuing a horse or finding an arab cheap. *


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 10, 2013)

*Ooh look what I found, what do you guys think of this one? http://www.horseclicks.com/handsome_10_yr_old_gelding_ready_to_go/horses/275965*


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 11, 2013)

Looks like a nice boy. Go check him out.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 11, 2013)

*YES! I have been talking with the owner and it sounds like he is really nice. I think we'll go look at him early next week! *


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## sawfish99 (Jan 12, 2013)

Here is another important consideration.  Do you plan to keep him barefoot or shod? Horses that are barefoot with boots when needed have started to dominate the endurance circuit.  If the one you are going to look at is already barefoot, that is a plus. 

I second the idea of linking up with some other endurance riders in your area.  Word of mouth about available horses can be vital to finding the right horse or wrong horse (like the halter arabs...).

If you are going to stay barefoot, you should look for a reputable barefoot trimmer.  They may know of horses for sale too.


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## sawfish99 (Jan 12, 2013)

I also highly recommend a 30 day trail period on the new horse.  An owner that won't agree to a trial may be hiding something.  I have returned a number of horses I thought were perfect when 2 weeks of trial revealed we didn't really fit together.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 12, 2013)

sawfish99 said:
			
		

> Here is another important consideration.  Do you plan to keep him barefoot or shod? Horses that are barefoot with boots when needed have started to dominate the endurance circuit.  If the one you are going to look at is already barefoot, that is a plus.
> 
> I second the idea of linking up with some other endurance riders in your area.  Word of mouth about available horses can be vital to finding the right horse or wrong horse (like the halter arabs...).
> 
> If you are going to stay barefoot, you should look for a reputable barefoot trimmer.  They may know of horses for sale too.


*
Thanks sawfish! This is good to know! 

The one I am currently looking at is barefoot, as are all the horses here where I live. We do have a good barefoot farrier.*


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 12, 2013)

sawfish99 said:
			
		

> I also highly recommend a 30 day trail period on the new horse.  An owner that won't agree to a trial may be hiding something.  I have returned a number of horses I thought were perfect when 2 weeks of trial revealed we didn't really fit together.


*Yes, she has offered me a 30 day trial on him. *


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 13, 2013)

*Gonna go look at this guy Tuesday. 
*


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## promiseacres (Jan 14, 2013)

Sounds like he good plan! Have fun!


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 15, 2013)

So ... how'd it go?


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 15, 2013)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> So ... how'd it go?


*

It went well. He hasn't been ridden in about a year so he was pretty nervous at first. I did eventually get up on him but he seemed pretty jumpy under me. 

Other than that I am not experienced to tell enough about his conformation. I did notice his feet don't wear flat, and I haven't put my finger on it yet, but it seems he steps "heavy" on his front end. I don't know though, I am not familiar enough with Arabians to know.

I have a video I would like you to look at and tell me what you think. Have to figure out how to add it though. Ok I'll add it in a few minutes as soon as I figure out how to do videos. *


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## sawfish99 (Jan 16, 2013)

If you put the video up on youtube, you can just post the link here.

Top question - why wasn't he ridden for a year?

Now that you have seen him, I will share some observations about the picture you posted.  Let me know what you think based on having looked at him.

1. His body language in the photo suggests he is flighty.  He is very nervous in the picture as indicated by his head so upright, ears, and the eyes.  

2. Conformation looks ok.  Shouders might make it difficult to fit a saddle without impinging the should movement.  The saddle on him looks like it interferes with his shoulder, however, it is difficult to tell from the photo.

3.  His hooves are not ideal for a barefoot horse. His heels are too long and the whole hoof is too tall.  

4. Why is he being ridden with a tie down or some other device to prevent rearing?  In the photo, there is a cord going from the cinch to the bridle.


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 16, 2013)

2. Conformation is hard to tell, pic is at an angle and makes his hindquarters look small. I have made that photogaphy make myself

3. Some "barefoot" and "natural" trimmers trim long on purpose. This picture might also be taken just before a trim. Actually, from the photo, it looks like he has shoes on the hind and barefoot on the back.

4. A good number of endurance riders use forks or running martingales to keep a horse from getting it's head too high, although from the photo it doesnt exactly look like a running martingale, more like a gogue: lines attached to the bit and cinch. Used for training, but they really should have taken them off for the picture.

How much actual endurance experience does he have? It will usually be given in "miles" ie "He did 200 miles last year and 300 the year before." Ask if he has ever been pulled and why, THEN double check that against AERC's web results. It will usually have reason for pull with a code at bottom: RO = rider option, M = metabolic(gut was shutting down or other systems affected). If he is registered, get me his FULL registered name. I can check his performance record on AHA's website. I'm a member and can access performance records of horses and riders in the US and Canada.

If you weren't 100% comfortable or have any misgivings. Pass.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 16, 2013)

*Thanks guys! I HIGHLY appreciate the feedback! 

So come to find out, this picture (and his endurance training) was taken when he was 6 years old. He is now 11. 

The owner can't ride anymore, she is older and retired and so most all of the horses have just been sitting.

This picture was taken when he was in training. And his endurance training consisted of the trainer (pictured) about 6 months worth of training, she said 15 miles a day.

She said he is not good barefoot, (because of the uneven wear) but fine with shoes.

He raced a bit (I guess there are arabian races out here) when he was 5. Only 5 starts though.

It felt a bit weird when I was riding him on the front end. The horse I am used to riding steps VERY lightly though, so it could just be that. I don't know.

I felt like he was fairly flighty/ nervous, but again he hadn't been ridden in a year and I don't know what is "normal" for an Arabian.

I think I will pass on him. I need one that is "more broke" (if that's a term) and not as nervous.

I can't put the video up on Youtube because it is too big. I don't have any programs to edit it and make it smaller. :/

I can put more pictures though, but a moot point now. 

I'm going to look at another one later this week that is much closer to my house. At least this way I will have something to compare. I made it a point to look at all her other horses while I was there too, just to get my eyes more "trained".

There was one there that was absolutely beautiful, I fell in love with her, but she said she is hotter than a $2 pistol, lol.

I'll get pics of the next one I look at too.

Thank you so much!!!! *


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 16, 2013)

*Ok I think I figured it out. It only took me 2 days, lol, sheesh! 

Sorry it's a little squished looking, don't know what happened when I converted the file. *

*Can you guys still tell me what you think? Maybe the difference between this and his picture?
*
http://youtu.be/34BotB3Mj08




*ETA: Ok, guess that worked, I don't know how to embed it here... :/*


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## sawfish99 (Jan 16, 2013)

I'll start with my bottom line: Don't get that horse.  

Here is why.
That's a LOT of horse.  He is definitely flighty.  He is afraid of the owner and his body language signals distrust of people in general.  He will not be easy to handle.  However, I see physical issues that turn me off.

1. He shows no collection at all and doesn't engage his hind end when moving.  
2. He doesn't "track up" meaning hind feet don't hit where front feet just left.  Related to #1.
3. He has an injury or problem with his back right leg.  It could be back related.  He doesn't extend that leg in particular. On the video, at about 0:38, in the right canter, he stops moving his hind legs correctly and starts to hop with his hind legs together instead of moving them independently.  I believe this is related to the back right leg problem.

In general I like his conformation, however, after watching that video, if I was in the market for a horse, I wouldn't bother test riding the horse.  

Look elsewhere.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 16, 2013)

*THANK YOU SAWFISH!!!


See this is why I love this forum! 

That is exactly the type of feedback I need and was looking for!

Because I am an "untrained eye" I didn't see that about his legs, but as soon as you said something I saw it immediately! 

I am going to keep looking. *


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