# Tell me more about disbudding...............



## savingdogs (Sep 18, 2010)

So I have goats that will have their first kids in the spring. 

I want to learn about disbudding now so I'm all prepared in time.

How do you all accomplish this? Do you go to a vet, do it yourself or go to some other expert? What does it typically cost you?

What age is best? My kids will be 3/4 nigerian 1/4 nubian. Do you so it at the same age for both sexes? I also have two does set to give birth about a week apart, would I have to do the kids at different times if they are a week or more difference in age?

If I have a vet or other expert do this, can they castrate the bucklings at the same time? 

How do you know they did a good job? I have one now with scurs, I want to avoid that.

Do all of your disbud or do some of you leave the horns? 
Just wondering about the range of options.


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## goatgirl4008 (Sep 18, 2010)

It is not a hard thing to do after the first time or two. Cost a dissbudding iron is around 40-50 dollars. The cheaper ones I don't think get as hot and it will take longer to do. A "kid box" is very handy to. Those can be found in hoegger catalog or caprine suppy catalog. The key is to have enough horn growth to make sure the bell of the iron fits over and you know its in the correct spot. The age and size of the kid will vary just like human kids not everybody grows the same. I would suggest you get the supplies and visit a neighbor that dissbudds. Most goat people would gladly help and they could show you how to do it. And mentor you through the first round of kids. I hate horns on goats tear up a lot of fences. And if you have any small people around its just better to not have horned animals. When they swing their heads they might not mean to hurt someone but it still does hurt. And my suggestion on castrateing is just band them. It can be done anytime and yes they do act like they are dieing but they won't. I think a bander and bands cost less than 15.00 at a farm supply store. I will have to find it but I think I have some info on disbudding in my goat binder I will look.


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## Shootingstars (Sep 19, 2010)

Thanks for starting this thread, I have to learn all of this also!


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## savingdogs (Sep 19, 2010)

So how much horn growth are you looking for? I read somewhere that waiting too long wasn't good either. 

Yikes! So when you band them they squeal and cry? I can just imagine me talking my husband into helping me with this....lordy!


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## goatgirl4008 (Sep 19, 2010)

They will squeal for a little while but then its ok they are up and down a lot but by the next day they are moving ok. And yes the horn growth is important you don't want them to big. I know someone that dissbuds 3 days old and has never had a problem. But as far as banding that is the easiest way to go. Less chance for infections cause there is no open wound like with cutting. Once in awhile there might be a little infection but if the area where the band is just spray with a little iodine. And a shot of antibiotic and should be fine.


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## goatgirl4008 (Sep 19, 2010)

A very informative site to visit for just about anything goats.  www.goatworld.com or www.jackmauldin.com.  Jack Mauldin has a lot of stuff from record keeping to "secret remedies" that are very helpful and informative.


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## Roll farms (Sep 19, 2010)

I consider disbudding one of the 'necessary evils' of goatkeeping...I don't like it, but it has to be done.  Yes, they will scream bloody murder but sometimes they actually start that the minute they're being restrained, before the iron even gets close.

We use / love the Rhinehart X 50.

I've had to do some Kiko / Boer cross bucklings at 1 and 2 days old (born w/ hornbuds), and sometimes the Nubian doelings, especially the smallest of trips or quads, I'll have to wait a week until they've erupted enough to disbud...and all I 'need' is a little hump that tells me where to go.

I do not use / like a disbudding box....I felt like I didn't have enough control over the kid's movement unless I was smashing it into the hard head support.  
I have a big dog pillow that I throw down on the garage floor.  Then I restrain the kid by wrapping it tightly in a towel, put the kid down on the pillow and straddle it, using my left hand to hold the neck and my right hand to control the iron.

We do most of our own kids, except when the buyer wants the kid to have horns, and I charge 10-20$ (depending on how much I like you  )
to do kids for people around here every year....I probably do 50-75 kids per year total.
Our vet charges $40.00 per kid and produces quite a few scurs....that's not to say yours will, but I'd definitely ask her about it and if she charges for reburning.

(Speaking of reburning....if you have to reburn one, do it before they get 2 or 3 mos old, you'll be amazed at the difference in strength.)

There are different schools of thought on when to vaccinate goat kids....a lot of Boer people who don't disbud, will say to wait until they are 2 weeks old or older to start....but ours get their first CDT the same day I disbud them.  I boost them 3 weeks later.

Bucklings tend to be harder to disbud than wethers and does, so I spend a little extra time on their heads.  I cool the head w/ cold water in a paper towel, and then hit them again w/ the disbudding iron once it's had time to heat up again....also, you must let it reheat between kids...burning one right after the other is a good way to get scurs b/c the iron's not hot enough to burn well.

As far as banding bucklings, it is best to wait at least until they are 2 mos. old before putting the band on.  The urethra stops growing the minute you put the band on, and the longer you give it to grow, the less likely they'll develop urinary calculi.
A buckling banded at 1-2 weeks old is 50% more likely to develop UC than one done at 2 mos....the shorter the tube, the easier it is to block.

Finding a goat mentor close by is a great suggestion...that's how I learned how to do disbudding and banding as well.

I have to point out that the comment "a shot of antibiotic and should be fine" scares me....most antibiotics take a series of shots to be effective.  A shot, as in single, will only knock the infection back, not clear it up.  I like Pen G for 'wound' infections, and use it 2x a day for 5 days at least.


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## lilhill (Sep 19, 2010)

Here, I disbud bucklings at 5 to 7 days old or when I can feel their horn buds.  The doelings are disbudded whenever I can feel their horn buds, which is usually 10 to 15 days (or sometimes longer) of age.  I use the X30 disbudding iron.  Tried the more expensive one, X50, and got more scurs with it.  Burn each horn bud 8 to 11 seconds, rotating the iron the whole time, until I get a good copper ring.  Then with the bucks, I go back after both buds are burned and burn again for about 8 seconds.  Remember the bucklings' horn base is more of a tear drop shape, with the smaller part being at the front of the base (if that makes sense), so you have to get it all to keep from getting scurs.  And still there's no guarantee with the bucks as their testosterone comes into play and the BEST burning can still produce a scur.  Scurs are not really attached to the base and many times will get knocked off from playing or rubbing their heads.  After disbudding, I spray Furall on each bud.

As Roll Farms said, I didn't have enough control with a disbudding box.  My hubby holds the kids while I disbud.  They will squirm and scream from the holding as much as they will when you burn.  After burning, I take them back to Mom and they are immediately bumping the udder to get a snack.  

Bucklings that are wethered here get banded at 2 to 2-1/2 months old.  Most just go off and lay down for a few hours (and walk pretty funny), but after that, they are just fine.

CD/T is given at 3 weeks of age here, and then a booster at 6 weeks of age.  After that, they get a booster every year.  IF their dam did not have a CD/T 30 days prior to kidding, then the kids get another booster at 9 weeks.


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## savingdogs (Sep 19, 2010)

Gosh I wish I could watch your techniques. I have seen it done but at a vet's with sedation and an iron, I don't quite get the box idea. I was wondering how you would hold one still. I'll have to check out those websites, thanks! 

I'm thinking the first time perhaps we should HAVE it done, but with an eye for doing it ourselves the next year. Does that sound like a good plan? I will lose money on kids if I have to pay the vet to do the disbudding, mine are just mixes so I think I have to go the do-it-yourself route, at least eventually.

I don't know anyone locally who has goats unfortunately.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Sep 19, 2010)

I was lucky enough to see it done on 7 or 8 kids by some local pros (and attempt one with their guidance) before doing it by myself.  It made it much easier when we made the leap and did it ourselves.

It might be worth a road trip if you can find someone a little further out that would be willing to disbud your Spring kids (and maybe some of their own) and show you at the same time.  I'm guessing the folks you bought the goats from don't disbud?


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Sep 19, 2010)

I used to live about an hour North of you, by the way, that's a beautiful area.


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## Ariel301 (Sep 19, 2010)

I normally prefer horned goats. We have a lot of predators, so horns make a good weapon against them if something happens while we are hiking with our goats. Horns are also important to me in this hot climate, because they make a natural air conditioner for the goat, the blood vessels in them help to cool the blood as it runs through the horns. And they are just plain beautiful, and that is the way God made them, for a reason. Rather than adapting the goat to fit how I want to keep it, I adapt my housing and equipment to fit the goats. Our goats do not tear up fences or anything else with their horns (any more than a disbudded goat would do, they all tear stuff up), or even hurt each other with them. The only beating I have ever had that was serious, was from a disbudded doe who smashed another doe's kid into the feeder until it died! I do have a horned buck that turned aggressive and unmanageable, but he would be dangerous even without horns. Animals like these with bad temperaments are culled from my stock and often their offspring as well. We train our babies from birth not to touch a person with their horns; my horned goats will tip their horns away from me when I get near their heads.

I do show goats, so I have to keep a couple of disbudded does. We did our first disbudding ever this spring on our new buckling because we plan to show him, and he screamed more about being held down than about having his head burned. He had a headache and was dazed for a few hours, really sleepy looking and out of it, but the next day he was head butting the other kids with his little burned head, so he can't have felt too bad.


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