# Kid with diarrhea



## s.z.ichigo (Apr 15, 2013)

One of my three week old triplets has come down with diarrhea. I noticed yesterday that he wasn't bouncing around as much as the others, and was standing a little funny, with his feet very close together like he was perching on something small, and he had a little mess under his tail, which he's been holding tucked in when he's not pooping. His poo is ranging from toothpase to elmers glue in consistency. (sorry for that visual).
We have a good microscope so I found instructions online to do your own fecal sample to check for worm eggs. I followed these instructions and I saw absolutely nothing. I then did another with a new sample, following these instructions, which seemed a lot more detailed, and saw a whole mess of stuff in there. Bits and pieces and things that looked like plant fibers, but not a single thing that looked anything like an egg. I read that even the healthiest goats have SOME kind of egg presence, so I'm not sure whether I can assume he's worm-free, or if I should assume I did something wrong. 
I tried to give him a dose of dewormer, but they're really not eating out of our hands, so I could only get him to eat about half, and it's not the type that deals with coccidiosis, which is primarily what I did the sample to look for.

Any advice on what I should do? I was thinking of buying the coccidiosis dewormer and giving him that, just in case that's what it is and I'm just not seeing it. He isn't dehydrated or underfed. And should I do anything for the other kids or their moms so whatever it is doesn't pass on to them? Thanks!


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## kstaven (Apr 15, 2013)

Try straight gelatin to control the runs. Kids can dehydrate quickly if it goes unchecked.


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## s.z.ichigo (Apr 15, 2013)

kstaven said:
			
		

> Try straight gelatin to control the runs. Kids can dehydrate quickly if it goes unchecked.


Thanks. I've been checking his mouth periodically, and it feels nice and wet. His skin and fur look good, too. What amount of gelatin would you give to a three weeks old ND, and how do you prepare/present it? They aren't bottle fed at all.


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## elevan (Apr 15, 2013)

Coccidia requires a 5-10 minute longer float time than internal worms.  You may have done the float too short?

I agree with the gelatin approach but you should definitely double check to make sure you are not missing something that needs treated.

Give electrolytes too (gatorade is good in a pinch).


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## s.z.ichigo (Apr 15, 2013)

elevan said:
			
		

> Coccidia requires a 5-10 minute longer float time than internal worms.  You may have done the float too short?
> 
> I agree with the gelatin approach but you should definitely double check to make sure you are not missing something that needs treated.
> 
> Give electrolytes too (gatorade is good in a pinch).


Would have been nice for the websites to have mentioned the extra time! I'll try again tomorrow. Nothing says fun like having a kid in your lap, waiting for it to poo on your leg 

We have something called Bounce Back that we have for chick water, so I'll give him some of that in addition to the gelatin, assuming I can get it into him. He's only starting to nibble at food and drink water. I assume I'm going to have to put a syringe in his mouth. I had to do that with my buck when he was 2 months old, and I remember it being a messy process.


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## elevan (Apr 15, 2013)

A syringe or a turkey baster works well too.


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## s.z.ichigo (Apr 16, 2013)

Good morning. I did another test last night, using a much longer float time. Still nothing, so I guess I won't be giving him the meds. I did get a full dose of electrolytes into him, with the help of my daughter. I held him in my lap, tipped his head back, and she just put the tip of the syringe between his lips and slowly let it into his mouth. He liked that MUCH better than trying to put the thing in his mouth!


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## woodsie (Apr 16, 2013)

I used this after it was suggested on a thread I had going for a sick kid I had....it did work like a charm to keep diareaha in check until I could get the antibiotics to treat for cocci. I just put 10 cc in a syringe (28lb kid) and down the hatch, took about 8 hours to get the poops to start clumping again. I had best results giving it 3 times a day....if I stopped the diareaha came back...that's when I knew I needed the antibiotics - that and everyone was screaming for me to get the meds. 

Here was the thread. http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=25444&p=3

1 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp clove
2 tsp ginger
2 tsp slippery elm (health food stores or Hoeggers Goat Supply)
1 tsp garlic ( I use liquid)
2 cups of water

Bring to slow simmer on low heat while stirring.
I then place in jar and cover and allow to cool for about 20 minutes.
I have been using it for
the past few years with awesome results.
Give 6-12 cc's orally several times a day.
I have also mixed it with scour halt with very good results

Since I already had some of this mixed up I then added:
cayenne and thyme. I used a teaspoon of each because my babies are in the 50-70 pound range, well, most of them, Figured it wouldn't hurt the little babies.


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## s.z.ichigo (Apr 16, 2013)

Finding slippery elm might be difficult. We live in rural NH, and there isn't a health food store withing reasonable driving distance. I'll definitely keep the recipe on hand, though. For now his poo seems to be improving, and hopefully it will continue to. It looks more like doggie poo now, with definite pellet shapes forming it. I did give him some gelatin.

Here is what most of the fecal sample looked like last night. I wish I knew how to identify the stuff in there. Is it weird that I found it really interesting?





This is the only thing that kinda looked like an egg to me, but not quite as it didn't have a real defined center (nucleus?) that pictures online had.


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## rebelINny (Apr 16, 2013)

If I remember right from doing my own fecals, the first pic you posted is bubbles.....I am pretty sure that's what I saw in my book about what the things look like when doing a fecal.


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## s.z.ichigo (Apr 16, 2013)

rebelINny said:
			
		

> If I remember right from doing my own fecals, the first pic you posted is bubbles.....I am pretty sure that's what I saw in my book about what the things look like when doing a fecal.


Yeah, the first picture is definitely just bubbles. I had a ton of bubbles in the second test for some reason.
We're back to runny poo, so I'm not sure he's still headed in the right direction. He's not dehydrated though, so I'm just going to keep an eye on him and continue to give him electrolytes and the gelatin. He's being a royal pain about getting it into his mouth now though.


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## s.z.ichigo (Apr 27, 2013)

Bit of an update, though not a real good one. The little guy still has the runs really bad. Yesterday he shot some straight out the back of him about a foot and a half. I've been bringing him the last few days for a bath and for a dose of diatomaceous earth and probiotic powder. I've tested his poo at least four times and still haven't seen a single thing that looks like a parasite egg. He still doesn't look anemic (pink gums and rear) or dehydrated (wet mouth and good skin), but he is significantly lighter than the other two triplets, and is now smaller than his brother who was always the more runty one. I'm worried he might not be getting to the teat. His mother is very sneaky about feeding them, I almost never see her do it. But he does seem more interested in the pellets than the other babies so maybe he's not getting enough milk? I wasn't able to lay my hands on any slippery elm locally, so I'm thinking I'll order it and try the recipe above. Any advice?


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## Pearce Pastures (Apr 27, 2013)

Have a vet run another fecal and treat for Coccidiosis with 40% DiMethox.  When the poo is watery, I have had my vet say it is sometimes hard to get a good fecal.  I am BETTING on it being coccidia though.  Discontinue the DE---it can be an intestinal irritant and while I am all about try to keep things natural where you can, at the kid's age and with its symptoms, I would not recommend using anything that could irritate its system further.


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## s.z.ichigo (Apr 27, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> Have a vet run another fecal and treat for Coccidiosis with 40% DiMethox.  When the poo is watery, I have had my vet say it is sometimes hard to get a good fecal.  I am BETTING on it being coccidia though.  Discontinue the DE---it can be an intestinal irritant and while I am all about try to keep things natural where you can, at the kid's age and with its symptoms, I would not recommend using anything that could irritate its system further.


I was considering that. I can't find much info on goats having diarrhea without it being due to parasites. He's not weaning or going through any other kind of stress. It seemed weird that I didn't see ANY eggs in the samples, but before we moved here a year ago this property had been animal free for YEARS (formerly a horse farm), so my husband contends that it's possible there just aren't any parasites around, but I'm not wholly convinced.
I probably have to wait until Monday to call the vet. The woman at Tractor Supply recommended the DE, but I haven't found much on the internet to support that, so I will stop using it and just give him the probiotic powder. With any luck the vet will be able to find the eggs I haven't and give me the proper meds for him. I looked for the Coccidia meds locally and the only thing TSC had was Corid, which I remember FiascoFarms saying does not work well.
Goats are so easy 99% of the time, but when something goes wrong it's so stressful! (at least for a newbie like me)
Thanks!


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## Pearce Pastures (Apr 27, 2013)

I am normally one to tout testing before treating, believe me on that   But he is at the perfect age for a coccidia bloom, the symptoms fit, so I am going with coccidiosis and if he were here, I would do a five day course of treatment.  If you can do it, order some 40% DiMethox from Jeffers.com.  I am not a CoRid fan but for this case in particular, you want something that is going to knock it out and DiMethox is a great med for it.  If you want to save a few dollars, you can get the powdered kind and I can give you directions on how to mix it to the 40% concentration you want to deliver.

You can also ask your vet, if she/he is willing to work with you, for something called SMZ-TMP, which is not an expensive med at all and will do a great job as well.

Edited just to add that with the feces being as watery as it is, it is not all that strange that NO eggs are visible, I promise.  I have dealt with nasty coccidiosis before and it was not until their poos started firming up that we were able to get sight of the eggs on a slide.


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## s.z.ichigo (Apr 27, 2013)

http://www.kvsupply.com/sulfadimeth...CKXmobS87LYCFccw4AodvE4ArA&CAWELAID=983684838
Yup, that's the same stuff I was looking at getting (the site above has free shipping though).
If it makes any difference, the poo we sampled was from a really thick pasty sample he deposited in the towel I had him wrapped in after his bath. I've had so much poo in my kitchen lately. 

So yeah, I'll call the vet on Monday and see what they say. Hopefully he can wait a few more days for me to sort out getting him the proper meds. I really should have done this a week ago when I suspected it was Coccidia, instead of listening to my husband!


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## woodsie (Apr 28, 2013)

Oh I sooooo feel for you....I was in the exact same position as you a month ago...I was thinking it wasn't cocci as the breeder I bought him from said that due to her program there was very little chance if any that he would have cocci. Then I was scrambling to get meds on Easter weekend when you could only get it through a vet (in my area), praying he would hold on for a day or two. I had a good result and with meds and lots of support on backyardherds we made it through. If you can get that slippery elm powder (it was in the tea section of a health food store in a smallish town in Canada) it really did stop the runs but as soon as I stopped it came back. I was told "GET THE MEDS" and as soon as I did it cleared up and we were on the road to recovery.

Oh, I was also giving bottles of electrolites, just the unflavoured kind for babies, which i mixed with the gelatin...he was a bottle baby so he took it really well and prevented him from getting dehydrated.

Hang in there...hugs.


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## 20kidsonhill (Apr 28, 2013)

I have had the state lab give me a negative or clean fecal result more than one time and then still ended up treating for coccidiosis and have the kid respond. I would treat for coccidiosis.  
Also, if the kid is starting to look really run down, 
I would give Penn G shots,
give a dose or two of Spectam Scour Gard for pigs 
and give the coccidiosis treatment.


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## elevan (Apr 28, 2013)

s.z.ichigo said:
			
		

> I can't find much info on goats having diarrhea without it being due to parasites. He's not weaning or going through any other kind of stress. It seemed weird that I didn't see ANY eggs in the samples, but before we moved here a year ago this property had been animal free for YEARS (formerly a horse farm), so my husband contends that it's possible there just aren't any parasites around, but I'm not wholly convinced.
> I probably have to wait until Monday to call the vet. The woman at Tractor Supply recommended the DE, but I haven't found much on the internet to support that, so I will stop using it and just give him the probiotic powder. With any luck the vet will be able to find the eggs I haven't and give me the proper meds for him. I looked for the Coccidia meds locally and the only thing TSC had was Corid, which I remember FiascoFarms saying does not work well.
> Goats are so easy 99% of the time, but when something goes wrong it's so stressful! (at least for a newbie like me)
> Thanks!


Causes of scours due to parasites and other causes:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-goat-poop


I agree with Pearce, get another fecal and have them do a longer float to check for coccidia.


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## s.z.ichigo (May 3, 2013)

Well, the little guy is looking loads better suddenly. I haven't seen him poo, but his butt is only a little dirty, not a caked on mess like before. He's walking with his tail up most of the time, and even running and playing a little. 
We ordered the Sulfadimethoxine powder, and it just came today, so I started him on a 5 day treatment, along with the Probiotic powder. We did not go to the vet for another fecal...the money just isn't there right now. 

I read that giving all of them a preventative treatment every 3 weeks is a good idea, so I think all the other babies will get a 3-day preventative dose as well, even though everyone looks really good.

So it looks pretty good right now. I hope he catches back up size-wise. He seems to have put on a little weight, but we're holding his mother to let him drink a few times a day, as he doesn't seem to be able to get in there while his brother and sister are eating.


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