# Are goats the right dairy animal for us?



## RJSchaefer (May 8, 2013)

We plan on getting dairy goats either this fall or next spring. The hold up, aside from researching, learning and getting hands on experience, is building a sturdy fence. Those are expensive! 

Our backyard farm is on a 4.5 acre property. I'm planning on giving the goats 1 to 1.5 acres. Unfortunately, this is _all_ tall grass prairie. I've been told goats don't appreciate that as much as sheep do.

I'm going to use the old chicken coop (now unsuitable for chickens) for the goats after a few repairs. 

We don't need an excessive amount of milk, but a respectable amount is key - a minimum of 5 to 6 gallons per week. I looked into dairy sheep, and it seems they don't provide enough to meet our needs without having quite a few of them. We're also looking for something that could double-duty as a dinner producer without having to keep bucks on hand. It's easier to find goats to breed than sheep around here.

I'm really looking at Nubians right now, possibly Alpines, and finding someone locally who has a Boer buck to breed. Nubians seem to meet our needs best - produce a good quantity of milk and produce babies meaty enough for the family table.

I've been told I should have at least ten to start. TEN?! That's a lot of goats!!! I was thinking 2 or 3! I was told Nubians typically have twins, so even 3 goats would produce more offspring that we'd need.

Tips, thoughts, considerations? Been there done that, possibly?


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## lovinglife (May 8, 2013)

My young Nubian just had a single doe, yep don't think I will be able to eat her...... but she is producing just half a gallon a day, I expect this to increase a lot in the coming weeks.  If you had 10 goats you would be overwhelmed, and the next year who knows how many you would have.....20? 30?  Two pregnant does would be a good start, they will give you plenty of milk and if you find you need/want more goats (like most of us... just can't stop) they are usually not hard to find.

Goats are a lot of fun, great pets, and make wonderful tasty milk, love mine!  Going to have to work on the eating part, I know that would be the best thing to do with extra animals....


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## SheepGirl (May 8, 2013)

If you need 5-6 gallons per week, that is roughly 3/4 of a gallon per day. Two to three average dairy bred ewes can easily give you that (1/4 to 4/5 of a gallon per head per day), and depending where you are located you can find ewes that produce more than 1 gallon per day in a 200 day lactation (any University dairy sheep research program or private working farm breeding for production). Lactation in sheep IS shorter than in a goat, but I think that's a fair trade off since the babies grow faster and they have more meat on them than goats 

PLUS the ewes will be happier in a pasture than the goats (who will be thinking how to escape your expensive fence to go find some woods ) and you will love the sheep!

Take it from me..............cause I'm not biased or anything.


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## RJSchaefer (May 8, 2013)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> If you need 5-6 gallons per week, that is roughly 3/4 of a gallon per day. Two to three average dairy bred ewes can easily give you that (1/4 to 4/5 of a gallon per head per day), and depending where you are located you can find ewes that produce more than 1 gallon per day in a 200 day lactation (any University dairy sheep research program or private working farm breeding for production). Lactation in sheep IS shorter than in a goat, but I think that's a fair trade off since the babies grow faster and they have more meat on them than goats
> 
> PLUS the ewes will be happier in a pasture than the goats (who will be thinking how to escape your expensive fence to go find some woods ) and you will love the sheep!
> 
> Take it from me..............cause I'm not biased or anything.


Oh thank you. I've had many goat people tell me they'll "adapt." I didn't really believe it. I had an inkling that tall grass prairie wasn't something the goats would enjoy. 

There goes all that money on goat books!  OKOK, better to waste $50 on books than $600 on goats that would be unhappy. 

So...sheep then...what breed would you suggest? I'm in northern Illinois, right on the WI border. I know there are some good-sized dairy sheep operations farther north.


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## SheepGirl (May 8, 2013)

RJSchaefer said:
			
		

> SheepGirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, the goats will like it. They won't like it as much as the sheep, though!  Goats are browsers (like deer) and sheep are grazers (like cattle). And you are in the perfect spot. That's dairy sheep country right there lol. Especially the University of Wisconsin-Madion's Spooner ARS. An East Friesian or Lacaune or cross of the two will be okay.


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## Southern by choice (May 8, 2013)

*Goats prefer tall grass* and weeds and brush and vines.
Sheep are more grass grazers that will eat the grass down to nothing and kill it. Goats will not. 
I would love to find a milk sheep but they are very hard to come by.

There is a reason most dairies use goats.

BTW- I have sheep and goats.   So I am _not_ biased.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 8, 2013)

My goats ate the brush first, but most definitely like the grass too. Starting with 2 or 3 bred does will give you plenty of meat and milk. I've also heard that goat meat tastes better. And IMO goats are much more personable. And fun.


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## RJSchaefer (May 8, 2013)

Baaaaaaaah!

I'm so confused. 

Here's the conclusion I'm drawing. We need to prioritize, for our family, what our goals are. This is what we came up with.
1. Stocking the freezer
2. Having milk, suitable for drinking, cheese, yogurt and soap. 
2a. Milk suitable for butter. This is kind of a footnote, because I'm aware you're best bet for this is a cow. I don't want a cow.
3. Having fiber - nice to have

I do believe sheep are the winner for (1), from everything I'd read.

Goats win for (2).

I believe sheep win for (3).

If, as some of y'all have said, goats will be just as happy on the tall-grass, I'm torn. Perhaps my best bet is to keep both. How well do they cohabitate? Information is conflicting. I've had some people tell me they do beautifully together and others tell me not a chance. I have one stables area. I really don't want males, at all. I'd rather rent a male to breed. The only potential commercial endeavor I can see coming of this is soap making, which we've discovered we love. I don't want to go through the hassles of commercial food manufacture.

Sorry, I know a lot of this is rambling etcetera. I'd just really like to get some advice on the best way to start.


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## OneFineAcre (May 8, 2013)

I don't know why you can't have both.

I only have goats, but there are many posters on here who have both, so I don't think cohabitation is a problem.

BTW, goats milk is not very good for making butter.

We have ND's and the milk is great, and it is great for making cheese.  ND's have the highest butterfat, but the cream doesn't separate readily.  I think you can buy seperators, not sure how they work.  But, it doesn't separate on it's on like cows milk.


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## frustratedearthmother (May 8, 2013)

You said you needed 5 - 6 gallons of milk - you can get that from one good dairy goat.  ( I don't recommend having one goat though)  Goats are opportunistic feeders... they will browse or they will graze.  Goat milk does not separate as easily as cows milk - however - it WILL separate.  A couple days in the fridge in a shallow pan and you can skim off the cream. Goat butter is white and delicate flavored - Yummy!

I don't have sheep, so I can't speak to that aspect.  

What I do know is that goats have personality plus!


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## Southern by choice (May 8, 2013)

I agree with 1 Fine Acre.

We have our Jacobs sheep in with our Nigerian Dwarf Goats and LaMancha.
Our Jacobs are for wool. Their wool isn't a "fine" wool, but we like it and it can produce great rugged outerwear. Jacobs are a bit more goat like in the sense they like leaves and tall stuff too. They are pretty rugged. Excellent parasite resistance.

We are new to sheep mostly because everyone said they couldn't go together. After researching and our livestock vet neighbor as well as another vet we use said "no, it isn't a problem" there are certain things to watch out for. *The biggest issue is copper*. Our one vets has her sheep and goats together . Our Jacobs do not have a copper storage issue so we really don't have the copper issues.
I am not well educated on all the bajillion   kinds of sheep but for meat I would say the Katahdins or dorpers are a great choice, they are hair sheep though. Wool sheep are great BUT for meat Katahdins or something like what sheepgirl has. She has a website you could look at. Friends of ours have just weaned their lambs.. 90 days and 80+  lbs already. they have Katahdins. Many of the wool meat breeds may not have the quality of wool you are looking for. Wool breeds must be shorn also. It seems the hairsheep have less issues with parasites internal and external.

I could be way off here but I think the scottish black face and the icelandic may be "triple purpose" meat, milk, fiber. (Sheep)

*Our goats do not destroy our fences.* We also have Kiko meat goats here which, if you research them they are also excellent for milk.  

Rams (male sheep) can be very aggressive and dangerous. Not everyone deals with this but it is more the rule than the exception. We chose to wether our Jacobs boy for that reason. He is very sweet.
Bucks (male goats) at least all the breeds and male goats we have are very sweet and never have been aggressive. Yes their are some that aren't ... there again mean ones are the exception. Rut is usually the time where any buck can get iffy. None of ours do. Every ram I have ever seen... always penned separately and they are dangerous. Our bucks are super lovey... pee smell and all we let them cuddle up with us and we pet em and then we change our clothes... 

And yes sheep girl... I know your ram isn't 

Getting really good parasite resistant stock IMO is also very important when having sheep and goats together too. We like having our males here because of bio-security and disease management. No transporting etc. I think that may be easier with goats because of thee heat cycles. It seems many with sheep do not keep a ram around unless they have a good many ewes.

I will say their are things I get annoyed about with my goats and things that annoy me with the sheep. Our goats are much friendlier and more personable. The sheep don't really want to come lay on our lap, they will tolerate a neck scratching but that is it. The biggest issue we have had is sometimes our ewe can get real bossy and she will really ram the goats sides. Not good when you have pregnant goats. Our goats never butt the goats, they may rear up as a warning but they just never hit them.


Yes long post... Just wanted to put a little out their without being biased. Sheep people always say sheep,"sheeples" are like that  and goat people will push goats- come on "goaties" you know it's true!   And EVERYONE pushes for their breed.    It is great to take your time and visit as many farms as you can and see the different breeds you are interested in. Me, I am really a poultry and LGD gal, so a little less persuasive about goats vs sheep etc.


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## sprocket (May 8, 2013)

RJSchaefer said:
			
		

> Baaaaaaaah!
> 
> I'm so confused.
> 
> ...


I raise goats, but I'd actually vote for sheep on (2).  Sheep milk has twice the protein and twice the fat as goat and will make AMAZING cheese and yogurt.  It'll be a personal preference as to whether or not you'd want to drink it - it's a bit rich for my liking.  You'll likely need to get a cream separator for both goat and sheep milk to get any amount of fat out for butter.

Now personality wise, I far prefer goats...sheep just aren't my thing when I have to work with them daily.


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## SkyWarrior (May 9, 2013)

To add more confusion.  I love my goats.  Goat meat is yummy and goat's milk can't be beat.  They will graze gas but prefer browse.  Of course mine are simply wonderful.  

My DH said "NO SHEEP!"

We have lots of goats.


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## woodsie (May 9, 2013)

frustratedearthmother said:
			
		

> You said you needed 5 - 6 gallons of milk - you can get that from one good dairy goat.  ( I don't recommend having one goat though)  Goats are opportunistic feeders... they will browse or they will graze.  Goat milk does not separate as easily as cows milk - however - it WILL separate.  A couple days in the fridge in a shallow pan and you can skim off the cream. Goat butter is white and delicate flavored - Yummy!
> 
> I don't have sheep, so I can't speak to that aspect.
> 
> What I do know is that goats have personality plus!


5 - 6 Gallons of milk off one goat? I would love to get a goat from you if that is the case! I am pretty sure that 5+ liters (not gallons) is a good milk goat. OOPS - I just reread the original post and you are saying 5-6 gallons per WEEK not daily....my bad - sorry!


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## woodsie (May 9, 2013)

I have both my goats and sheep together, I just have the goat minerals on top of the run in shelter...the goats jump up there to get their grain and minerals and the sheep have never even tried. They get along very well together and all sleep together and ruminate together. The goats stray further from the "herd" and will go browse for any leaves they can reach while the sheep keep their heads down and eat the grass. 

I have hair sheep and live in a dry climate so I haven't had a hard time with parasites. Even our ram is in with them as he is very peaceful, a little pushy when there is grain but I have about 4 or 5 buckets/feeders I spread the grain out so they just dance around between the bowls, the ram can only be at one bowl at a time... 

In short, if you are a little creative and keep a close eye on them it can be done...I don't think it would work if you want a model of efficiency and are running large herds but for a "backyard herd" it works out well. I have 6 ewes a ram and 4 nannies on the pen together and rotate them through 4 pens and portable areas that need to be "mowed". 

A side note - I think the sheep may have become "tamer"  with the goats in the pen as the goats are much more people oriented and the sheep seem to realize that I am not dangerous and follow the goats when rotating them into the temporary pens...or it could be the grain....haha, yeah it is probably the grain. LOL!


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## wooliewabbits (May 13, 2013)

We have a sheep and 5 goats and there are never any problems.We just make sure she doesn't get into the goat grain!  Only one problem.....she thinks she a GOAT!


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## Animallovers1 (May 13, 2013)

If you are still look in to goat a nupine a cross between a Nubian and and alpine and a pygora would probly be okay for you


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## GLENMAR (May 15, 2013)

I have Nubians. I  have three does. Combined they give me 5 and a half gallons a week. I am only milking once a day. 
One of my does has been in milk over 300 days and still gives at least a quart a day.
Their field is about 3/4 an acre.


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## bjjohns (May 17, 2013)

I don't own sheep. I do own goats. Goats are seasonal milkers (You won't get milk year-round). My Lamancha and my Nigerian dwarf both will breed off-season from all my other goats, so that means I have fairly decent year round milk availability for us (but not enough in the off season for selling products). Most of my goats milk from 1/2 to 3/4 gallons of milk a day, with a couple of the Saanens producing as muck as 1.5 (6 liters  per day.

What's the difference between a sick sheep and a dead sheep? 30 Minutes. I've had really bad luck with sheep.


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## GLENMAR (May 17, 2013)

bjjohns said:
			
		

> I don't own sheep. I do own goats. Goats are seasonal milkers (You won't get milk year-round). My Lamancha and my Nigerian dwarf both will breed off-season from all my other goats, so that means I have fairly decent year round milk availability for us (but not enough in the off season for selling products). Most of my goats milk from 1/2 to 3/4 gallons of milk a day, with a couple of the Saanens producing as muck as 1.5 (6 liters  per day.
> 
> What's the difference between a sick sheep and a dead sheep? 30 Minutes. I've had really bad luck with sheep.


You said you won't get milk year round, but I have been milking one of mine for 300 days. I think you could stagger a few kiddings, and still get milk year round. 
A lady came up a few months back and bought one of my bucklings, she said she had been milking her herd continously for 6 years. I think I would need a break by then.


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## quiltnchik (May 21, 2013)

I have to chuckle every time I see someone say that goats won't be happy and/or do well on pasture.  That's just not the case!  We just moved from 64 acres of gorgeous pastures to 5 acres of woods.  My goats thrived on those pastures, and the ONLY time I supplemented with grain was when the does were on the stand being milked, or with hay when there was snow on the ground.  Other than that they got no supplementation and they did absolutely great, and were much happier than they are here in the woods.


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