# Arabian Stallian with blue eyes



## Farmer Kitty (May 20, 2009)

The farm broadcaster had an interview this morning with the owner of Arabian race horses. She has a 3 yr old Stallion pure bred Arabian Stallion with two blue eyes and black markings around the eyes. She had him at the horse fair here in WI a little while back.

Apparently this is a trait common in Avaro (sp?) Paint except they usually have pink around the eyes. His mother has one blue eye so the Avaro is in her background.

As far as they know, he is the only pure bred Arabian in the world with two blue eyes.

Owner: Pamela Fullerton of Resolute Racing in Athens, WI
Horse's name: Ice Man

Has anyone heard of him?


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## appytaz (May 20, 2009)

I am a little confused  :/

How can he be a pure Arabian if his dam has Overo Paint in her? 

I am interested in hearing what others have to say.


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## Farmer Kitty (May 20, 2009)

Apparently not the paint just the Overo pattern.  Something about the pattern being most common in the paint but, that it can happen in Arabians? I'm not familar with horse traits so, I'm wondering about it too.


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## Carri (May 20, 2009)

My understanding is that only Appys and Paints carry that gene.  That would be pretty amazing if he is, in fact, 100% Arab with no other breed mixed in.


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## laughingllama75 (May 21, 2009)

This is what I could dig up, thought it was interesting. at the bottom of my post, there is a link to a site that has purebred sabino and splash and overo arabs. They are neat, but they certainly don't float my boat. Not what I think of, when I think Arab.


Any excuse to surf the net on my pet breed. That led me to the sabino gene and these horses 
http://www.sabinoarabs.com/ 
Then I called an Arab judge and historian in Australia. She has seen a very few blue-eyed purebreds; in each case, there was a baldy face where the white marking included the eye. The blue eye would not therefore be downgraded, but she agreed with me that it, along with the pink nose, was an undesirable trait in our environment. 


http://www.shatormararabians.com/moonlightmoneymaker.html


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## Draven (May 23, 2009)

Your friends Arabian is definitely not the only Arabian with two blue eyes.  The gene that causes the wild/extra white markings ( and rarely blue eyes ) in purebred Arabians is the Sabino/Splash gene.  There is a black blue eyed Arabian stallion named Moonlight Money Maker who, according to his owners, is one of only four blue eyed *Black * purebred Arabians ( his grandsire, his sire, himself, and his daughter ).  Also, according to the website, he has sired 83% blue eyed Splash foals.

http://www.shatormararabians.com/moonlightmoneymaker.html












Despite the fact that he really lacks a lot of Arabian type, some of his foals have actually turned out pretty nice but thats a whole different conversation.

Here are two of my favorite Moonlight Money Maker foals ( both have two blue eyes )












There are a few really nice Sabino stallions out there though.  One of my personal favorites is Khartoon Khlassic.  






Here is one of Khartoon's sons






I have a minimal Sabino mare ( she has a wide blaze, chin white, two spots on her back, belly roaning, three white legs and a large patch over her right front knee ) that I would really like to breed but I haven't found the right stallion yet.  I want quality and color.  

I am a huge fan of Sabino Arabians so this topic was right up my alley.  I have plenty more pictures if you would like to see more.


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## Farmer Kitty (May 23, 2009)

to the herd!

They are beautiful. 

Not a friend, just someone the farm broadcaster had interviewed at the horse show.


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## Draven (May 23, 2009)

Thanks for the warm welcome.  Sorry I misunderstood your post.   I wish you had a photo of the horse you are talking about.  Do you remember what his name was?


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## Farmer Kitty (May 24, 2009)

Draven said:
			
		

> Thanks for the warm welcome.  Sorry I misunderstood your post.   I wish you had a photo of the horse you are talking about.  Do you remember what his name was?


All the info I have is in the first post--including his name.


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## haviris (May 24, 2009)

I've seen blue eyed arabians, there are different types of pinto patterns, I "think" the only one arabians can't be is tobiano. I think Sabino is the more common one you see in arabians, and I think they are more likely to have color around the eyes, rather then the bold face like splash and frame (not sure arabians come in frame). I don't really like sabino as much as some of the other patterns, I like the cleaner looking patterns!

There are alot of bold faced blue eyed horses, but blue eyes w/ color aren't really that uncommon either. I do like the blue eyes surrouded by color best. Paints are my breed, so I love any kind of color! I also like the pinto minis best! I would really love to someday have a splash!


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## Ninny (May 25, 2009)

Draven said:
			
		

> Your friends Arabian is definitely not the only Arabian with two blue eyes.  The gene that causes the wild/extra white markings ( and rarely blue eyes ) in purebred Arabians is the Sabino/Splash gene.  There is a black blue eyed Arabian stallion named Moonlight Money Maker who, according to his owners, is one of only four blue eyed *Black * purebred Arabians ( his grandsire, his sire, himself, and his daughter ).  Also, according to the website, he has sired 83% blue eyed Splash foals.
> 
> http://www.shatormararabians.com/moonlightmoneymaker.html
> 
> ...


If i had a horse like the one with the lady riding id might like riding more.


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## Draven (May 25, 2009)

I think I found him.  Is this the horse that you saw?? 

https://www.addisequineauctions.com/EZ_DispLib_Item.aspx?ID=79

Interesting.  I wish they had used a picture that showed all of him.  I would really love to see more of him.


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## Farmer Kitty (May 25, 2009)

I only heard about it on the radio but, the horses name and the name of the contact/owner match so, I would guess it's him. 

He is a very pretty colored. I do wish they had shown a full body shot of him. Thank you for digging that up as I was curious as to what he looked like.


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## haviris (May 25, 2009)

I think he's really pretty! I wouldn't call his color rare, but he is pretty! I'm partial to the blue eyes anyway. To bad he'll end up white, but I kind of think he'll still be pretty! He'll probably keep the black eye liner, and around the blue eyes is always stiking, my blue eyed white dog has black eye liner!


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## Farmer Kitty (May 26, 2009)

Why will he end up white?


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## haviris (May 26, 2009)

Because he's gray, they always eventually end up white, and since he's only two and already so light, I'm going to guess he'll get there fairly quick.


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## Farmer Kitty (May 26, 2009)

That's to bad. He's so pretty now. I'm sure he will be all white but, I like color.  Of course, comformation is more important but, color doesn't hurt.


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## haviris (May 26, 2009)

Yes conformation (and temperment) are more important, but I figure there are enough good horses out there that someone should be able to have the one they want in the color they want!


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## sterlng&sierra (Jun 5, 2009)

Arabs do carry a splash overo gene, plus sabino and rabicano(sp?) genes. I know the most about the overo gene. Overo is a recessive gene, so both parents must carry it and pass it on in order to have overo offspring. The father of my foal carries the splash overo gene, as he has two babies with white besides facial/leg markings, one out of a draft cross (non-colored, foal has a leg spot about 4" long, 3" wide), the other out of my childhood pony (an overo). My pony's foal is a VERY loud splash overo, much louder than her mom, and she has one blue eye. I saw Ice Man, too, and I saw this here: The Iceman. His pedigree is at the bottom of the page, and he's probably on allbreedpedigree.com.

_This amazing young colt is the RAREST COLORED Arabian Stallion in the United States.  He is a true Blue-eyed, Overo marked purebred Arabian.  The Iceman is tripled registered a purebred Arabian (AHA), a Pinto horse (PtHA) and as a Sabino (SAHR).  Iceman is negative for lethal white, Sb1 and is SCID clear.  The Iceman's breeding is the very best of Russian and Polish lines.  His sire is the Regional Sport Horse Champion, RFR Polar Star.  His Dam, the race winning mare, I Ofthe Flame was sired by the multiple NTR setter, Flaming Streak and is out of a mare by Cre-Run Stud, internationally famous for their Endurance and Performance Champions._


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## AF Texas Longhorn Ranch (Aug 10, 2009)

My best friend's parents raise Arabians, some of the best in the world. No 100% true purebred Arabian is a paint one, all that are admitted to the Arabian Stud Book have to be solid colored with no white markings above the knee. Paint Arabians are not purebred. They have to have at one point in time be bred to a paint horse or another multi-colored breed to have obtained the "paint" gene.


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## haviris (Aug 11, 2009)

Actually there are different types of Overo, I don't know that it is recessive or dominate, but only one parent has to have it for a foal to get it (in fact if both parents past on the frame overo gene the foal dies). On the other hand two completely solid horses can throw a wild colored pinto foal. I once knew of two purebred registered appaloosas having a very loud flashy splash overo foal!

Now tobiano is dominate, and if a horse carries two genes for it it is homozygous and will only through tobiano foals!

And as for pinto arabians, there certainly are purebreds that are also pintos! Now they can't be tobiano (even though there is currently one in question), but overos definately! Somewhere along the line they started favoring the solid colored horses for show, and bigtime breeders have actually had cosmetic surgery to remove small white body spots! Anything w/ much more white then that was kept well hid! In fact it is rumored that one of the really "big name" stallions originally had a white spot removed from his belly, now that's just a rumor, but he is very prone to throwing lots of white on his foals.

I don't even doubt the guy here is purebred. I just don't really care for them toting him as "rare", I've seen sabino arabians, w/ and w/out blue eyes. If I was a mare owner looking to breed, I'd find that a turn off. I probably wouldn't use that as my final answer, but it'd definately be a mark against them.


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## ducks4you (Aug 11, 2009)

Draven said:
			
		

> I think I found him.  Is this the horse that you saw??
> 
> https://www.addisequineauctions.com/EZ_DispLib_Item.aspx?ID=79
> 
> Interesting.  I wish they had used a picture that showed all of him.  I would really love to see more of him.


Looked at the bloodlines--BEAUTIFUL stud colt!!!!  
Don't want to start an online arguement, but (forgive my naivete) are there not 2 types of Arabians:  the ones with Saudi-Arabian bloodlines and the Polish?

I wouldn't mind admitting being wrong to tell un-horsey folks that ONLY Arabs and TB's come in solid.  Your thoughts...?


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## haviris (Aug 11, 2009)

I honestly don't know, they are different lines! But to my knowledge they are all arabians. And FYI Thoroughbreds can also be colored!


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## momto5lilrascals2angels (Aug 11, 2009)

Draven said:
			
		

> Your friends Arabian is definitely not the only Arabian with two blue eyes.  The gene that causes the wild/extra white markings ( and rarely blue eyes ) in purebred Arabians is the Sabino/Splash gene.  There is a black blue eyed Arabian stallion named Moonlight Money Maker who, according to his owners, is one of only four blue eyed *Black * purebred Arabians ( his grandsire, his sire, himself, and his daughter ).  Also, according to the website, he has sired 83% blue eyed Splash foals.
> 
> http://www.shatormararabians.com/moonlightmoneymaker.html
> 
> ...


   These are beautiful !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ducks4you (Aug 11, 2009)

haviris said:
			
		

> I honestly don't know, they are different lines! But to my knowledge they are all arabians. And FYI Thoroughbreds can also be colored!


Do you have pics of these, I assume, paint TB's?


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## joletabey (Sep 10, 2009)

Hi,
I am new and this is my first post - this looks like a great site!
I used to breed and show Arabians, and though I have been out of the business for quite some time, I do remember reading that there were many accounts of Arabians in the Mideast with white spots.  I think it was the Blounts that did quite a bit of traveling and purchasing, and spots were acceptable.  For some reason in America, there was a prejudice against them.
There are several people breeding specifically for "pinto" Arabians, and I think they are referred to as Pintabians.  
Try googling it, as I can't remember any of the farm names.  Khartoon Khlassic is a lovely horse, and a lot of the Khemosabi kids had a lot of white- belly spots were common, as I recall.


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## big brown horse (Sep 10, 2009)

Joletabey, Welcome to the herd!


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## joletabey (Sep 11, 2009)

Thank you, Big Brown Horse!


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## BDial (Sep 11, 2009)

One of the prejudice against the pinto coloring was because my ancestors loved loud colored horses. They were indian ponies and not good enough for the American people to ride. (Just one of the reasons. Another I think was because white on a horse made it easy to spot the rider)


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## ducks4you (Sep 14, 2009)

BDial said:
			
		

> One of the prejudice against the pinto coloring was because my ancestors loved loud colored horses. They were indian ponies and not good enough for the American people to ride...


That surprises me--I remember reading accounts of preferred paint horses in other parts of the world.  I know that there is a spotted breed that hails from Northern Europe--NOT  Appalousa, but something like a big, brown Dalmatian.

I had a problem with the thread because I had seen lots of ads for Pintabians which were 1/2 Arab or maybe 3/4 Arab but never purebred Arab.  I have not had a real need for a paint, BUT our favorite Pone/horse was a big barrelled, 13.2hh tobiano, with great big spots and 2 blue eyes.  Many non-horsey people asked if he was blind!  ?!?!?!?  whatever....

I DO know that so many people want a paint for the show ring, (to stand out,) then find themselves in the ring with a full house of other paints!

SOMEHOW, the Egyptian Arab has the genetics to improve other breeds. To do so, the breed must be bred to the same breed.  If this stallion is a Polish Arab, I could certainly understand, because all of my research suggests that Polish Arabs are slightly outcrossed already.

I NEVER dismiss a horse because of color.  TO me it is the LEAST important reason to buy, and color does not affect temperament. I also am not a purist when it comes to breed.  I loved my Arab (27 years old this year--RIP) and I know that there is another one in my future.  I know that there's another paint in my future, too.  I am *always* willing to look at good horse, irrespective of lineage and coat color.


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## haviris (Sep 15, 2009)

Sorry it took me so long to respond, I haven't been by here in awhile, here is a site w/ a breeder that breeds colored thoroughbreds, these are dual registered w/ APHA. 
http://www.coloredthoroughbreds.com/


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## BDial (Sep 15, 2009)

ducks4you said:
			
		

> BDial said:
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Now days it is a lot better but there are still those that don't like the chrome. Prob because that "isn't the color they are supposed to be".


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## ducks4you (Sep 15, 2009)

I'll BET the ponies who referred to had REALLY  GOOD  FEET!!  That would be ENOUGH to get ME looking at 'em.


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## BDial (Sep 17, 2009)

Sorry temp thread hijack

They have really good feet. My girl doesnt were shoes. the farrier compares them to a donkeys feet. If you ever come over my way you can see my girl.


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## joletabey (Sep 21, 2009)

The only reason I can think of for people to be against chrome is the white hoof that goes with it, that can SOMETIMES be "softer" than dark hooves.  I am trying to think if I know of any real proof of that. . . I don't think any of my horses had any differences.
Khemosabi and Padron both somewhat helped changed the prejudice against chrome in the Arab world.  I agree with some of the above posters- if its a good horse, then the color is like icing on the cake.


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## rittert3 (Dec 4, 2009)

another link with his pic and an article on him
http://midwesthorsefair.com/index.php?page=stallion_detail&post_id=2362


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## LauraM (Dec 4, 2009)

> I know that there is a spotted breed that hails from Northern Europe--NOT  Appalousa, but something like a big, brown Dalmatian.


You may be referring to Knabstruppers.

Here is a good article about Knabstruppers .  I have a friend who breeds them here in Virginia (these are her horses in the photos).  

Okay, sorry for the hijack.


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## Stauffer (Dec 4, 2009)

LauraM pointed me to this thread. I think because I love equine color genetics...lol

Pure Arabians CAN come in sabino overo or splash white overo. Moonlight Money Maker is a splash white overo. Khartoon Khlassic is another splash white overo. I don't believe Frame Overo or Dominant White exist in Arabians(but they do in thoroughbreds, as well as the sabino overo and splash white overo) and tobiano for SURE does not exist in arabians.

Some of these pinto patterns can stay VERY hidden for generations. I've seen a solid colored mini horse with a half blue eye test positive for the frame overo gene. 

I've seen two "normal" looking quarter horses--sorrel with normal ol' blazes and a couple of low socks through a very loudly marked foal--Dominant White (for an example--look at the now deceased GQ Santana)

check out how minimal some of these markings are on a splash white overo on these morgans: http://www.morgancolors.com/splashwhite.htm

Sabino can be just a face marking and some leg markings and that is it...and one day you cross two and you might get a belly spot or more. 


There is a theory that blue eyes are only caused by Splash White Overo and Frame Overo--not sabino or tobiano. If this is true, then The Iceman would be a splash white overo.

Most arabian breeders do not recognize splash white overo and tend to lump it under sabino overo. 


also on the appaloosa spotting thing...it's called the Leopard Complex, or LP, usually...because more breeds than just the appaloosa have it  It can be found in Knabstruppers, like LauraM mentioned, as well as it has been seen in three thousand plus year old Chinese paintings--so it was found in Asian breeds as well. I've seen it in Spanish breeds. The Altai is another LP spotted breed. I'm sure there are more that have not derived from the Appaloosa as well...and I can find out if anyone is interested.


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## Ariel301 (Jan 16, 2010)

joletabey said:
			
		

> There are several people breeding specifically for "pinto" Arabians, and I think they are referred to as Pintabians.
> Try googling it, as I can't remember any of the farm names.  Khartoon Khlassic is a lovely horse, and a lot of the Khemosabi kids had a lot of white- belly spots were common, as I recall.


Actually, a Pintabian is a pinto/Arab cross, that is almost all Arab. They're usually 80% or more Arab I think, but they cannot be registered as a purebred Arab, at least not for many, many, many generations, as you can never 100% breed out the outside influence. The Arab registry is very particular about registrations...I could not get them to register my half-Arab mare because her sire was a feral horse. (Mare in a rural area accidentally bred by a mustang stallion)  

There are many different 'types' of Arab, including Egyptian, Polish, Russian, and Crabbet. They are all purebred, but were selected for different looks/uses. So the Egyptian tends to be a very small, delicate looking horse, while the Polish is a bit bigger and stockier, and the Russians I've seen tend to be very tall and leggy racehorse types, almost like a Thoroughbred. They have not had any other breed crossed with them in a very long time, they were just selected from within the breed to create those types that fit individual tastes.  

Sabino is not all that unusual in Arabs, it just goes unnoticed a lot because the markings can be as minimal as a white blaze that goes down over the chin, or a couple of stockings that extend higher than usual. 

I really like a dark colored Arab with a good amount of white, I find it very attractive. But that's just my taste. 

And yes, there are purebred pinto Thoroughbreds. I've seen some, even on the racetrack. It's a throwback to way back before the studbook was closed;  the animals used to make the modern Thoroughbred were all sorts of colors.


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## michickenwrangler (May 29, 2011)

Bumping this thread because I met the horse's trainer this weekend. They have branched into endurance and competitive trail.


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## country freedom (May 29, 2011)

I wonder what my youngest daughter would think about these Arabians - she's always wanted a horse that has it's tail flying like a flag - I had to show her Arabians.
She's also a Paint lover, too.


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## michickenwrangler (May 30, 2011)

Here's their website. Again, met the people this weekend. 

http://www.resolutefarmsracing.com/index.html


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## genuck (Aug 12, 2011)

ducks4you said:
			
		

> Draven said:
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There are Polish, Egyptian, Crabbet (english), and believe a small Spanish sect I can'e remember right now.

 I don't know if I could handle a blue eyed or bald faced arab, would give me flashbacks of my old paint mare lol. That Khemo bred pinto is gorgeous though!


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## manybirds (Aug 12, 2011)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

> The farm broadcaster had an interview this morning with the owner of Arabian race horses. She has a 3 yr old Stallion pure bred Arabian Stallion with two blue eyes and black markings around the eyes. She had him at the horse fair here in WI a little while back.
> 
> Apparently this is a trait common in Avaro (sp?) Paint except they usually have pink around the eyes. His mother has one blue eye so the Avaro is in her background.
> 
> ...


i'm just like45 minutes from athens. will they be at the athens fair by any chance? I would like to go watch horses


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## michickenwrangler (Aug 12, 2011)

manybirds said:
			
		

> Farmer Kitty said:
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Probably not. They do endurance with their horses now. I beat their stallion Silver Crescent last Memorial Day weekend.


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## equinehugger3 (Aug 12, 2011)

Sounds gorgeous! I'm also in WI, Chippewa County. Any chance he'll come there?


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## michickenwrangler (Aug 13, 2011)

Again, probably not. THey do don't fair shows or any kind of show. They train Arabians for racing as well as endurance. Jason, the guy trainer and I spoke at the Grand Island Ride and a few days after on the phone.

They sold their blue-eyed stallion to a gal out in California, but they still have some others--like Silver Crescent. They race at the Michigan tracks sometimes.

I don't know where the Wisconsin tracks are, but they have been going to endurance rides and you can see a WI schedule at www.umecra.com


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## equinehugger3 (Aug 13, 2011)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> Again, probably not. THey do don't fair shows or any kind of show. They train Arabians for racing as well as endurance. Jason, the guy trainer and I spoke at the Grand Island Ride and a few days after on the phone.
> 
> They sold their blue-eyed stallion to a gal out in California, but they still have some others--like Silver Crescent. They race at the Michigan tracks sometimes.
> 
> I don't know where the Wisconsin tracks are, but they have been going to endurance rides and you can see a WI schedule at www.umecra.com


Yeah, they're probably not coming around here. Even our country fairs only have about 10 or so participants in any equestrian activities, and they don't even do any discipline besides English. Thank you anyway!


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## manybirds (Aug 15, 2011)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> Again, probably not. THey do don't fair shows or any kind of show. They train Arabians for racing as well as endurance. Jason, the guy trainer and I spoke at the Grand Island Ride and a few days after on the phone.
> 
> They sold their blue-eyed stallion to a gal out in California, but they still have some others--like Silver Crescent. They race at the Michigan tracks sometimes.
> 
> I don't know where the Wisconsin tracks are, but they have been going to endurance rides and you can see a WI schedule at www.umecra.com


and i suppose stallions arn't allowed to comete in 4-H shows anyway. i just thought if they had kids and it was right in town they might have gone there.


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## michickenwrangler (Jun 5, 2013)

Thought I'd give this a bump since this horse is doing endurance now. Also, the owner's son hit on me at an endurance ride back in 2011. He's been riding Iceman in endurance rides, although last I heard Iceman had been gelded.


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## Prairie Fleur (May 12, 2017)

I found this thread very interesting as my mare's sire, Khartoon Khlassic, is mentioned several times.
My girl is 7/8 Arabian and the rest is pinto. She's got the Khemosabi temperament and loves people tho she's still inexperienced and a little jumpy around strangers.


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