# What is a "puppy mill"



## OneFineAcre (Sep 3, 2017)

So how do you define a puppy mill?
And how do you define a responsible breeder ?
Are you a responsible breeder and not a puppy mill because you say you are?
Because you have a blog and website? 
I'm curious
I have 5 acres and I currently have around 50 goats ( some are Champions)
And 4 Great Pyrenees guarding them
We had a litter of pups last year year 
I think we are responsible not someone with 5 acre and 50
Dogs?
That's a puppy mill


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## BlessedWithGoats (Sep 4, 2017)

Imo:
A lot of it depends on how you care for the animals. From what I know about you and your farm, I would not say you are a puppy mill.
You're not breeding your dogs over and over, not letting the moms have rest in between litters. You don't have your dogs cooped up in filthy small areas. You're not just trying to produce as many pups as you can in order to make money.
Responsible breeder:
Has the health of the parents in mind
Makes sure the pup doesn't leave home at too young of an age
Is willing to assist the puppies' new owners in answering questions etc, supporting them


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## BrendaMNgri (Sep 4, 2017)

https://www.aspca.org/animal-cruelty/puppy-mills/closer-look-puppy-mills
_*Puppy mills usually house dogs in overcrowded and unsanitary conditions, without adequate veterinary care, food, water and socialization. Puppy mill dogs do not get to experience treats, toys, exercise or basic grooming.*_

I'm curious.
How many "dog breeders" regularly having litters of dogs on this forum can say they are licensed and permitted within their county and state?

I know for a fact I am the only licensed and permitted Spanish Mastiff and Pyrenean Mastiff breeder in the state of Nevada.

I am, and have been, for several years. It is required in my county. In fact most people would be surprised, that licensing is often
required in their own counties - they just aren't aware of it, or it is not enforced vigorously. Or they know and are trying to avoid the process. I have a dog customer in my state who even
listed a fake address on her website for ages in order to hide from authorities the fact that she had a large number of dogs, and was regularly pumping out litters.

I must pass inspection by my local sheriff, pay fees, and report any changes in my number of dogs.
I provide proof of vaccinations and de-wormings, and typically go above and beyond what is required.
When my puppy sales are under a certain amount, which they have been for three years now, I am not required to obtain a state license, and am exempt.
When the income goes over a certain amount, then I license with the state.

I know a lot of people breeding dogs in my area who do it under the table. But Facebook is often their undoing, as deputies often troll the for sale pages on local
pages, and _voila, _the unlicensed breeders are busted when they start advertising those litters. I know that for a fact.

It's a pain in the ass, yes, to go through stuff. But when the dust settles, I can sleep at night.  Probably better than some.
It shows I take what I do seriously, I am a professional, and that I care about my dogs enough to go through the hoops.

Stuff happens to everyone. When you undertake a breeding program, large or small, stuff happens. A puppy miller does not care. They cover stuff up.
They make their dogs suffer. They are deceptive, they lie and hide things.  Its how transparent and honest the breeder is about that stuff,
that counts. Sickness, diseases, accidents know no boundaries or preferences. I've had my share of tragedies on my ranch and have not hid them. I've had ignorant people make
rude and abusive and stupid comments about my dog losses out of spite and jealousy, even about my beloved Patron's rare EPI disease. (I'd put a link up to it to educate you but an Admin told me I can't so you guys are just S.O.O.L., sorry.) I have an old Pyr who was diagnosed with cancer last month. You know, how you deal with stuff like this is what separates them with grit, from them without it. Same with honesty. A lot of people out there want to be big shots without paying dues or doing time or walking the walk.

I will never forget the new deputy tagging along one year with the older one on my inspection day. He looked at my place, my dogs, and said, "Oh, _you're_ not a puppy mill!"
I said, "Oh, did someone say I was?" He nodded. I get that a lot. Another time, two out of area county sheriffs showed up unannounced to see my dogs, they'd heard about them, and wanted
to see them. Not two minutes inside she says, "Why, _you're _not a puppy mill!" Again, same BS from someone (jealous competition I'm sure) who said I was a "puppy mill."

Here's a photo of those deputies taken that day.






There are parts of the country infamous for puppy mills because of lax laws; I've been told the Amish are particularly infamous for running puppy mills in some places. The Carolinas are really bad and so is Texas, and up in the NE. California has it's spots too.

I think I get called a puppy mill by people who are very jealous over the fact that I've put a ton of work into my operation (going on 9 years now) and have become very well known about my dogs and my writing, and my successful training and pack rearing. I came out of nowhere more or less and rose to the top of this profession, and when you are at the top you are an easy target. It's always easy to pick the spiteful and jealous ones out by what they say and how they say it, even on forums like this one.  Yawn, been here, done this, find it sooo passé and immature. Make my day….next?


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## Southern by choice (Sep 4, 2017)

I don't believe we are allowed under the rules of this forum to post links to animal rights groups such as PETA or ASPCA, HSUS.

Asking a person their opinion is just that.... giving YOUR opinion not linking to what other say about the subject.

I don't have time right now but I do not think it is a "one size fits all" just like the infamous "back yard breeder".

Under the caption that was posted in quotes - yeah, sorry I do know of licensed "kennels" that feed well, give vet care, socialize, have clean facilities and are still a freaking mill!
That is where the "opinion" part comes in. 
I also know of many more that are not mills.


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## Goat Whisperer (Sep 4, 2017)

There is someone not far from who I consider a mill. From what I've seen they have good facilities and I believe they are licensed but they still have like 15 pyrs on two acres, claiming that they are LGD's. Years ago I know they had a few goats and chickens. I don't think they have any more now (dogs misbehaving… killing stock…fighting…) So 15 "LGD's" on two acres with no livestock. Only two males, the rest are females. They breed their bitches every heat cycle (about 2x a year) and sell their pups for $1200 because folks think they are a "good" breeder. When the dogs start to slow down (having smaller litters-around 6 years old because they are constantly bred) I see them on Craigslist and FB selling these worn out dogs like crazy. Sorry but that IMO is a mill. They also boast about the hundreds of Pyrenees they've produced… 
They also will sell the dogs as LGDs but don't have livestock, do not evaluate, let buyers pick pups from photos, the list goes on.  Anyone who breeds dogs for the sole purpose of making money is a mill (there could be a few exceptions, but I can't think of them now). If you are breeding for money you shouldn't be breeding dogs. IMO

And of course you have the "other" type of puppy mill where they are caged, unhealthy, etc etc.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 4, 2017)

Goat Whisperer said:


> There is someone not far from who I consider a mill. From what I've seen they have good facilities and I believe they are licensed but they still have like 15 pyrs on two acres, claiming that they are LGD's. Years ago I know they had a few goats and chickens. I don't think they have any more now (dogs misbehaving… killing stock…fighting…) So 15 "LGD's" on two acres with no livestock. Only two males, the rest are females. They breed their bitches every heat cycle (about 2x a year) and sell their pups for $1200 because folks think they are a "good" breeder. When the dogs start to slow down (having smaller litters-around 6 years old because they are constantly bred) I see them on Craigslist and FB selling these worn out dogs like crazy. Sorry but that IMO is a mill. They also boast about the hundreds of Pyrenees they've produced…
> They also will sell the dogs as LGDs but don't have livestock, do not evaluate, let buyers pick pups from photos, the list goes on.  Anyone who breeds dogs for the sole purpose of making money is a mill (there could be a few exceptions, but I can't think of them now). If you are breeding for money you shouldn't be breeding dogs. IMO
> 
> And of course you have the "other" type of puppy mill where they are caged, unhealthy, etc etc.



I'm pretty sure I know who you are referring too


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## BrendaMNgri (Sep 4, 2017)

FYI that is not a link to PETA or another "animal rights group" so please….take a deep breath.  Deeper….   

Below is a quote from another website, again was told we are "NOT" to post links - so here is copy cut and paste description from another source. NOT an animal rights group, either. I like their description of a backyard breeder:

*Backyard breeders*
Backyard breeders are also motivated by profit. Ads from these unscrupulous breeders fill the classifieds. Backyard breeders may appear to be the nice neighbor next door-in fact, even seemingly good-intentioned breeders may treat their breeding pairs as family pets. However, continuously breeding animals for years to produce litters for a profit still jeopardizes the animals' welfare.

Some backyard breeders may only breed their family dog once in awhile, but they often are not knowledgeable on how to breed responsibly, such as screening for genetic defects. *Responsible, proper breeding entails much more than simply putting two dogs together.*

*Look for these red flags:*

The seller has many types of purebreds or "designer" hybrid breeds being sold at less than six weeks old.
Breeders who are reluctant to show potential customers the entire premises on which animals are being bred and kept.
Breeders who don't ask a lot of questions of potential buyers.
No guarantees-responsible breeders make a commitment to take back the pet at anytime during the animal's life, no matter the reason.
Because puppy mills and backyard breeders choose profit over animal welfare, their animals typically do not receive proper veterinary care. Animals may seem healthy at first but later show issues like congenital eye and hip defects, parasites or even the deadly Parvovirus.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 4, 2017)

BrendaMNgri said:


> FYI that is not a link to PETA or another "animal rights group" so please….take a deep breath.  Deeper….


ASPCA is one of those groups.
I don't need to take a deep breathe. 
I have always shown you respect, I expect you to do the same.
I have been working in the canine industry since the 80's. I am very familiar with training, breeding, health, imports, exports, and the list goes on. 
I also know people can really %^&%$%^$! 
I also know there are many out there that are awesome.


My point being there are great breeders, terrible breeders, knowledgeable and unknowledgeable breeders.

You and I agree on many many issues.  So... take a deep breath.


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## BrendaMNgri (Sep 4, 2017)

This is why I have a stringent application process and insist people complete it or they don't get past the first Email.
I am always shocked at the number of people who stick noses up in the air over filling out applications. As said in my DGJ article - people should be embracing the fact that the
breeder cares enough to screen homes for their pups, not the opposite.

Behind every bad breeder are bad customers who don't care, want it cheap, want it fast, want it close by, who don't keep in touch with their breeder and lean on them for support.
Those are the people who keep the backyard breeders and puppy mills afloat. They are to be blamed as much as the puppy mill. No one forces them to buy from a puppy mill…...
_
"Anyone who breeds dogs for the sole purpose of making money is a mill (there could be a few exceptions, but I can't think of them now)" _- @Goat Whisperer I don't give my pups away (although I have placed adult dogs at no cost, and have given away a few pups but that is not the norm), and all the reputable good breeders I know of raising LGDs, also don't give their pups away….our time is valuable, so are our bloodlines, methods, work and training that go into producing great dogs…. Do you know what it costs to raise up a great litter of good working guardian pups? Hours and hours, hundreds and hundreds of dollars….usually more often into the 1,000's if C Section required - so all most breeders get in return is usually a return on their investment into the litter. There may be small profits, i.e., "making money" as you put it, but in my case, that all goes back into the dogs - more food, advertising, more vaccines, more vet visits, another import, etc. 

This is especially true today with the flood of backyard breeding going on, fad breeding, etc. I am going to sound like the old hag broken record, but many of you weren't  around 9 years ago and didn't have LGDs - 9 years ago, trust me again as said in DGJ article, you had to hunt to find LGDs. They were not common as they have become in past few years. Past few years they have exploded in popularity which has been both good and seriously bad in the big picture. $100 specials on Craigslist - demeaning these dogs by price cutting. A whole new generation of LGD owners placing these dogs on the level of butcher pigs and chickens, i.e. no respect, disposable, etc. Which they are most definitely NOT…..but that is what's happened here. And it's why many reputable breeders are really speaking out now and publicly condemning irresponsible fad based breeding without game plans, purpose, knowledge, experience. LGDs have become the new fad breeds.


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## TAH (Sep 4, 2017)

Being in the search of a puppy I have been looking a bunch... 

My dad wants a Brittany spaniel... There are lots of breeders here but only 2 that I can find responsible. 

If they aren't willing to help you with the pup after it has left there care. 

Lets you pick pups on your own... Someone that knows what they are doing will have a questionnaire on your needs and pick a pup based on that... Or if they are willing to give you a pup even if you can't care for it. One of the breeders (not the two I am looking at) gave a pup to a guy that lived in a Apartment, worked 12hours a day 6 days a week, and had plans to leave the puppy in his home while he was gone... 4-weeks later I see puppy on craigslist. 

For me they should be totally okay (should even offer on there own) with giving you a full run down on what they do, vet records on everything, ALL there dogs, kennels, puppy's, etc. 

Our family learned the hard way with our pup, he came from a shelter, no problem, right?!?! Well turns out he was fixed at 6-weeks, not socialized, sold at 8weeks, had lots of allergies, very temperamental, etc... It has been a 3year long journey to get him to where he is at today... And he still needs everyday training to keep him from going back, being on a raw diet because it was the only thing to keep him from allergies along with a bit of grain free dog food... It is hard but I have learned so much from him I wouldn't trade it for anything... 

Turns out the shelter he was bought from (he was $375 and we got him from friends at 4-months but knew him whole journey) as these breed of dogs every month... Makes me suspicious. Blue heeler/pit/lab.

@OneFineAcre I personally think there is no issue with what you did, I remember reading thru your journal and seeing your updates on the pups in there new homes, vet visits, etc... I remember thinking that is how it should be done!


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## Goat Whisperer (Sep 4, 2017)

_I_


BrendaMNgri said:


> This is why I have a stringent application process and insist people complete it or they don't get past the first Email.
> I am always shocked at the number of people who stick noses up in the air over filling out applications. As said in my DGJ article - people should be embracing the fact that the
> breeder cares enough to screen homes for their pups, not the opposite.
> 
> ...


I am very familiar with the costs, hours, and work. I work extremely closely with SBC (and some others) and I know first hand. I know that feeding pups alone, from weaning until they are placed, is in the $1000's. 
I know that a C section at the closest emergency clinic is over 4 grand in our area. 

But you are missing my point. I said " _Anyone who breeds dogs for the sole purpose of making money is a mill (there could be a few exceptions, but I can't think of them now)" 
_
So tell me, if someone goes on Craigslist, buys two $50 pups and breeds them for profit, you do not see it as I do? 


I know the cost, and I know what work goes into the pups from a good breeder. But if you are breeding _for the sole purpose of making money  _I see that as a mill. 
Heck, if you make a profit I don't really care. Of course you cannot gives dogs away. I have no problem with $1200 dogs. I am all for them. But if you are breeding each bitch 2x a year so you can sell pups for $1200, JUST TO MAKE MONEY you are crazy to think that isn't a mill. 
_
_
I have been doing this a while, I am not newb. 

You seem upset that I made a statement like that. I guess you know a lot of reputable folks that are in dogs for the sole purpose of making money ? Not for furthering the breed or making outstanding LGD's? Because that goes against most of what you've put on the forum.


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## Goat Whisperer (Sep 4, 2017)

Unfortunately I have have a friend who bought a pup from someone who I see as a mill. She was searching for a pyr to guard her goats. They were already on the list for one of our pups, but we didn't know when pups would happen (They waited over three years until we bred a litter).
Anyway, she talked to the breeder, talked about the parent stock etc.

The dam was relatively young but old enough to have pups. Now years later she sees that the dog (her pups dam) has been bred twice a year, every year. The facilities were nice, but the breeder wanted the pups gone by 6 weeks. She got the pup at 7 weeks and he was only 10# and had fleas
Breeding for the sole purpose of money, that is another example of what I see as a mill.

Oh yeah, after the pup was flea free and healthy SBC had to retrain the pup. The breeder kept the puppies in with kids and the dog was terrible. Biting and chasing goats, chickens, didn't want to be corrected.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 4, 2017)

Goat Whisperer said:


> There is someone not far from who I consider a mill. From what I've seen they have good facilities and I believe they are licensed but they still have like 15 pyrs on two acres, claiming that they are LGD's. Years ago I know they had a few goats and chickens. I don't think they have any more now (dogs misbehaving… killing stock…fighting…) So 15 "LGD's" on two acres with no livestock. Only two males, the rest are females. They breed their bitches every heat cycle (about 2x a year) and sell their pups for $1200 because folks think they are a "good" breeder. When the dogs start to slow down (having smaller litters-around 6 years old because they are constantly bred) I see them on Craigslist and FB selling these worn out dogs like crazy. Sorry but that IMO is a mill. They also boast about the hundreds of Pyrenees they've produced…
> They also will sell the dogs as LGDs but don't have livestock, do not evaluate, let buyers pick pups from photos, the list goes on.  Anyone who breeds dogs for the sole purpose of making money is a mill (there could be a few exceptions, but I can't think of them now). If you are breeding for money you shouldn't be breeding dogs. IMO
> 
> And of course you have the "other" type of puppy mill where they are caged, unhealthy, etc etc.



GW
The veterinarian who got 2 wethers from me this year, I believe she got one of their "retired" females
They came to our place straight from there and had the dog with them
There was a whole group of people and I could tell by some comments that they were not very impressed with that "breeder"
They were very complimentary to my dogs and goats
I think that in this particular case that dog is enjoying her retirement


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## Simpleterrier (Sep 4, 2017)

Oh this is interesting. My main question is what makes everyone think that they know more or do it better then the rest. We have an eight month old Irish terrier. While trying to find one we were asked many times to fill out an application and I said no. I was told by so many people that they wouldn't sell me a pup cause I have other dogs no fenced yard and young kids or told I had to spay and neuter. Guess what I believe all of them were Mills. We got our male pup from.an old guy that lives out in the woods he had two females and one male.  When I buy an animal it is mine if I want to take it home and eat it then so be it. Most of the people I talked to are trying to keep their dogs rare so that the price stays up. I would also say most people who get defensive are usually guilty. One thing I have noticed is so many people are divided and that's how the other team wins.


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## Baymule (Sep 4, 2017)

I see LGDs on Craigslist all the time for a couple hundred bucks. Almost all are mixed breeds, LGD, but still mixed. There were Komondor and GP puppies listed a few weeks ago and they were some weird looking dogs, their coats forever doomed to be a mess. 

I think most of what I see are not puppy mills, but just dummy owners. They have some goats, chickens, and a couple of dogs. They don't have sense enough to pen the female when she's in heat.


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## Bunnylady (Sep 4, 2017)

Simpleterrier said:


> most people who get defensive are usually guilty.



And most people who make generalizations are usually wrong.

_Naturally_ the galled jade winces (to toss a little Shakespeare out there), but that doesn't mean it felt the spur _at that moment_. Anyone that has gotten picked at and criticized, _especially_ when they felt they didn't deserve it, is going to feel like, "oh no, here it comes again," when it looks like the same kind of language is getting thrown around. It takes a very disciplined  person (or one medicated to the point of feeling nothing) not to get defensive when they feel they are being attacked. 

Shoot, I still remember the hurt and anger I felt one time when my mother punished me for lying about something when I knew I was telling the truth, and that was almost 50 years ago. I may have had the satisfaction of knowing that I was right and she was in the wrong, but it didn't make it hurt any less to have her calling me a liar.

Most people want to feel good about the decisions they make; few are so totally callous and indifferent that they really don't care that they might be doing harm. Only an extremely uninformed person could not know that there are a lot of unwanted animals (in this discussion, dogs) in this world; anyone who breeds them has to come to grips with the fact that they are adding to an already burgeoning general population. More is, well, more, and there are some people who will criticize you no matter what you do, just because you are making more. You may be doing your darnedest to make sure that the animals you produce are as free of health issues as is humanly possible, and are as suited to their breed's job as it is possible for them to be, and make every reasonable effort to get them into the hands of people who will appreciate them and treat them with consideration and care, and yet some will still lump you in with people who breed anything to anything due to ignorance or greed, and criticize you. (If you want to take it to extremes, there are some who feel that any animal that is forced to associate with humans is so warped and unnatural that its very existence is torture, and the worst thing you can possibly do is create more beings to live in such misery). In the words of an old song, "you can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself" - you have to do what makes sense to you. You also have to be prepared for the fact that some may not agree with what you do, and if the majority opinion seems to be against you, you may be prevented from doing it (or even prosecuted for it), however sensible it might seem to you.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 4, 2017)

TAH said:


> Being in the search of a puppy I have been looking a bunch...
> 
> My dad wants a Brittany spaniel... There are lots of breeders here but only 2 that I can find responsible.
> 
> ...



Well thank you


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## Baymule (Sep 4, 2017)

Simpleterrier said:


> When I buy an animal it is mine if I want to take it home and eat it then so be it.



*TACOS!!! *


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## rosti (Sep 7, 2017)

I define a puppy mill as a facility that produces the most amount of puppies possible for the cheapest price possible and sells them for the most possible. They also have little, if any, concern for the temperament or health of the parents, mental wellbeing of all of the dogs, and are breeding for no purpose other than sale. 

I don't see "high volume breeders" as puppy mills.
Nor do I agree that all breeding dogs must be registered and health tested, though I prefer health testing myself. 
I would argue that back to back breeding has good benefits as long as the female is healthy and in good condition.
If you can make money breeding dogs, more power to you. Nothing wrong with making money on animals. 
Not all breeders can take back a puppy they sold. Life happens, and sometimes we are not in the position to do so, no matter how much we want to do so. 
I won't ask you to sign a contract or any such thing, except, maybe a bill of sale. It's a dog, not a human going through an adoption process. 
Most of the points I make above point to a BYB. Rubbish. I was also called a BYB because I breeding for working standard, not AKC conformation standard. 

OP, "responsible breeder" is a relative term-don't get sucked into that. Some people think you are a cruel and irresponsible breeder if your dogs live outside, of all things. And no, you are not a puppy mill.


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## Baymule (Sep 7, 2017)

@rosti welcome to the forum. Glad you joined us. Why don't you mosey on over to the New Member Introductions and tell us a little about yourself!


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## rosti (Sep 7, 2017)

Baymule said:


> @rosti welcome to the forum. Glad you joined us. Why don't you mosey on over to the New Member Introductions and tell us a little about yourself!



Thanks!
I've been stalking for months now, and joined a couple months back. I will introduce myself soon.


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## BrendaMNgri (Sep 7, 2017)

@Goat Whisperer _"You seem upset that I made a statement like that."_ No. Not upset at all.

Meanwhile, I posted my article for Dairy Goat Journal in another thread so people can read it. It sums up my opinion on what makes a good breeder. I must not be alone in my opinion or they would not have printed it, I'm sure…. 

@rosti _"Not all breeders can take back a puppy they sold. Life happens, and sometimes we are not in the position to do so, no matter how much we want to do so." _

Good point. And welcome to the forum. Quick as I can be with a story of a placement of three LGDs to working home - a going adult and two pups - to what I thought would be a great home. Started out really good and the dogs did fantastic, saving a high powered expensive show lamb stuck in a fence, keeping predators at bay, etc.. Then the owner started dropping off the map. Became testy, temperamental, cross when I hit him up for updates on my dogs. Then he didn't like my blunt writing (I am infamous for calling it as I see it, that is putting it mildly), and dropped off the map completely - no updates, no nothin'. "Kiss my ass" kind of vibe. 

Out of sheer cussedness and because I wanted to know, one day on FB I PM him, hey, how are the dogs. Oh, just so happens his family is _kicking him off the ranch, _ and he has only _one month _to get rid of _all_ his sheep and must find homes for my dogs!  REALLY?  I about bite my tongue in half but keep cool because I know if I blow up, this guy will vaporize forever. So I spend money advertising the dogs, I spend scads of time and effort trying to find homes. No one buys. Not even one word of thanks from the owner for all my work. Then when I contact him after weeks, he goes into total meltdown, completely off the handle calling me this and that, on and on. It becomes very clear to me why he's been kicked off the ranch by his family - good God, the man is a basket case, coming apart. Oh, and a royal you-know-what hole, to boot. 

Long story short, tonight, I got an E mail from someone who says they have a dog I bred, and from what they say, I know its' one of the grown pups this guy had. So I'll call them tomorrow and find out which one they took and probably get all the details. If I'm lucky I will find out what happened to the other two dogs he had, too.

I could not bring the dogs here because - 2 intact males - it would have been a train wreck of blood to try to re-incorporate them into my (at the time) 15 dog pack. The adult female I could probably bring back but the owner is so skewered in his mind by now, I doubt that I could even get him to do that.

So @rosti is right - sometimes breeders cannot take back dogs for one reason or another because yes, life DOES happen. But a good one will try their best to re-home if they can't bring them back; I have successfully re-homed my dogs in situations (divorce, death in family) and other events. I know I did the best I could do for these three dogs, in spite of a jerk of an ungrateful customer who did nothing but stab me in the back for all my effort and for caring. It sounds like this one dog has found a good home and I am thankful for that.  Thus goes the trials and tribulations of a breeder….   ….a breeder who cares, that is!


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## BrendaMNgri (Sep 7, 2017)

PS the Buckeye chickens and LGDs story in the Chicken forum? The two Spanish Mastiff siblings? Those were re-homes. Went to Barbara's place where she already had sibling pair from me. She took on "The A Team" Agostin and Argenta - and did great job with them. A happy ending to what could have been a sad story.


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## rosti (Sep 7, 2017)

BrendaMNgri said:


> But a good one will try their best to re-home if they can't bring them back; I have successfully re-homed my dogs in situations (divorce, death in family) and other events. I know I did the best I could do for these three dogs, in spite of a jerk of an ungrateful customer who did nothing but stab me in the back for all my effort and for caring. It sounds like this one dog has found a good home and I am thankful for that.  Thus goes the trials and tribulations of a breeder….   ….a breeder who cares, that is!



I agree in trying to help rehome the dog.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 8, 2017)

I think you just know it when you see it and hear it 
ETA
Kind of like porn
Call it what you want


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 8, 2017)

My family has the privilege of owning dogs that we can trace their lineage to the 1940's
I have underwear and socks that are 9 years old


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 8, 2017)

2 years ago a family visited out farm
Their teenage daughter took some pics and wrote an article about us 
It was published in the Goat Rancher magazine
So if anyone is impressed by someone having one of their "articles"published don't be


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 8, 2017)

$1200 a lot for a dog ?
LOL
That's funny


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## Rocky Girl (Sep 18, 2017)

I have no dog in this discussion, but at what time does a dog stop being a breeder dog?!?

 I understand there's an inherent want for dogs to be placed in a good home with responsible owners but if I'm paying $900+ for a dog I don't want to be be babysat for the rest of that dogs life. I should be able to make decisions on my dogs life from the moment it walks out of your property it's no longer "your" dog, and if you has the breeder feel the need to continuously check in to verify that dogs welfare ( with some exceptions) than you didn't do your job has a breeder in vetoing that owner!


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## Baymule (Sep 18, 2017)

Welcome @Rocky Girl! Glad to have you here. Why don't you mosey on over to the new member section and introduce yourself?


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## TAH (Sep 18, 2017)

Baymule said:


> Welcome @Rocky Girl! Glad to have you here. Why don't you mosey on over to the new member section and introduce yourself?


x2 welcome!


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