# I wish we could move....



## Alexz7272 (Oct 28, 2016)

I've been *TRYING* to convince my boyfriend to move out a bit more or to another surrounding state! He is a mechanical & electrical engineer (genius) and could get a good paying job anywhere! I'll be done with my paralegal studies in a year and then we'd be even better off! Three years ago we bought the house for 460k well now it is worth 860k. It is 4bd 3bath 2500 sq ft house on 5 acres. Could you imagine what size property we could buy for 860k elsewhere?! I've been showing him properties in that price range trying to convince him. Just imagine how big of a machine shop we could have!  
Do you think we'd be crazy to move? We are small right now but hoping to expand, maybe wait a little bit longer? And we are still struggling to get the water rights, which is a HUGE issue for me. 
 And I _*HATE*_ living in Boulder County. They would tax or regulate the air I breathed if we allowed them to. So yeah, am I crazy?


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## Mike CHS (Oct 28, 2016)

A majority of us on the forum have already or getting close to moving out of places we didn't want to be so I doubt anyone would think you are crazy.  The biggest issue though is it takes both of you to want to do it.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 28, 2016)

Hey @Latestarter want to weigh in? Lol.  Yeah I think Colorado is not the best place for free thinking homesteader types. You don't even own your own water... So yeah,  keep trying to convince that boy to move.


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 28, 2016)

@NH homesteader Not to mention the semi-desert climate. I am SOOO tired of brown. (sorry, now just complaining)


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## Bruce (Oct 28, 2016)

Alexz7272 said:


> I've been *TRYING* to convince my boyfriend to move out a bit more or to another surrounding state! He is a mechanical & electrical engineer (genius) and could get a good paying job anywhere! I'll be done with my paralegal studies in a year and then we'd be even better off! Three years ago we bought the house for 460k well now it is worth 860k. It is 4bd 3bath 2500 sq ft house on 5 acres. Could you imagine what size property we could buy for 860k elsewhere?! I've been showing him properties in that price range trying to convince him. Just imagine how big of a machine shop we could have!
> Do you think we'd be crazy to move? We are small right now but hoping to expand, maybe wait a little bit longer? And we are still struggling to get the water rights, which is a HUGE issue for me.
> And I _*HATE*_ living in Boulder County. They would tax or regulate the air I breathed if we allowed them to. So yeah, am I crazy?



Um, how about showing him how much your original $460K would buy elsewhere?? Assuming you didn't hit the Powerball, you have a mortgage. Why carry it to a new place?

You would need to do what @Latestarter did. Find the state that best suits your financial situation. In his case he was looking not only at sales and property taxes but also at income tax on Social Security (though he isn't there yet) and military pensions. Some states look good because they have no "this" tax or "that" tax but will kill you on "this other" tax and "that other" tax.

But do it fast, that sort of increase in that short a time is a housing bubble just waiting to explode as we saw in 2007/8. That $860K house today might be a $200K house when the bubble blows.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 28, 2016)

Yeah I would have to agree with that. Being free of a mortgage and starting a farm would be amazing! What states are you looking in primarily?  

Brown...  Ugh.  I couldn't live there.


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## Baymule (Oct 28, 2016)

Yeah, we are in a stupid high housing bubble. Great if you're selling, you will get bombed if you are buying, especially at those prices. Sell, take the money and RUN! Y'all come on down to Texas, it is GREEN and you own the water that falls from the sky onto your roof or property. (I never heard such a bunch of crap in my life--not owning the water that falls on your property)

Smith county  Biggest town is Tyler. Work there, but live on the outskirts in a smaller town. Lindale has the best school district.

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/21343-FM-1995-Lindale-Texas-75771/3422609

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/22571-CR-2138-Troup-Texas-75789/3504511

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/18010-County-Road-356-Winona-Texas-75792/3037679


Van Zandt county. Biggest town is Canton, also home to a HUGE Trade Days held once a month

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/552-VZ-CR-2313-Canton-Texas-75103/2616438

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/965-Vz-County-Road-2317-Canton-Texas-75103/2882470

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/4405-FM-1995-Van-Texas-75790/2380069


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## Bossroo (Oct 28, 2016)

We used to live in the " democratic peoples republic of davis" about 30 years ago  which rivals with Colorado in their restrictive living.  So , W E    M O V E D !!!  Much better now !!!


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## NH homesteader (Oct 28, 2016)

My state's motto is "Live Free or Die".  Can't complain about that! 

Could complain about other things about my state, however.


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## Latestarter (Oct 28, 2016)

In two words... GET OUT... adding another; NOW! Take advantage of the recent increase in property value while you can and use the profit elsewhere. I have a really bad feeling about the financial direction this country is going, like real soon. With the profits from that sale you could buy a really nice brick home on 50 acres down here and PAY CASH! And STILL have money left over for improvements! You could be living in the country and be 20-30 miles from a major metro area where either or both of you could make good money working and STILL have your homestead! But as has been mentioned... you really need to do it as a team. It can't be one sided.


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## promiseacres (Oct 29, 2016)

Oh my a $400,000 property. CANNOT  imagine. Amazing how much property is worth around different areas. My sis bought a 300+ acre farm with a very nice home in the UP of Michigan for under that. Around $300,000 I think.


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## Baymule (Oct 29, 2016)

Yes, get out while the getting is good. Our economy is headed for the rocks, no matter which political party holds the top position. It is liable to get real bad and I wouldn't want to be in a state where you basically have no rights. Sell your place immediately. Take advantage of the high price, even if you have to rent a place before you find what you want. Get out. Like @Latestarter said, your 860K could drop to 200K and then you'd be upside down, owing more than it is even worth and couldn't give it away. Take the money, honey and run as fast as you can to east Texas. You already have friends here.


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## Bruce (Oct 29, 2016)

Unless you like colder temps and snow over hot. In that case, apparently you want to look at the UP.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 29, 2016)

Up is good. Minus mass. They have the same problem as Colorado.  As does California. And Connecticut . I know California isnt up but I had to throw them in there because it's so incredibly not a good place to move as a farmer /homesteader  (sorry to the Californians on here)


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## Bruce (Oct 29, 2016)

UP being the Upper Peninsula of Michigan  That is where the "Yoopers" live.

Cheap up there per @promiseacres post a few back.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 29, 2016)

Oh haha oops


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## Bruce (Oct 29, 2016)

Don't feel bad @NH homesteader lots of people don't know the "nicknames" for places around the country. Like how many people know where the "Northeast Kingdom" (NEK) is??

I've been through the UP a few times, it is on the way between home and Beloit, WI where DD2 is a senior at Beloit College. Other than that, I have no reference. 

My GUESS is that land is cheap up there because there is nothing up there! No big cities to draw the people with good paying jobs that would like to live a bit farther from the busy city where real estate is very expensive. But they still want to keep their jobs in the city and they have enough money to drive the prices up in the "outskirts" where property is "cheap" (as long as you have a good paying job in the city).


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## greybeard (Oct 29, 2016)

Land is getting high here. If it continues, I will gladly sell out and move back to west central Texas, back to the 'brown' land where I can see into the next county. Too 'civilized' here for my liking anyway, and I'm sick of looking at pine trees--they just obscure the view.
I'll take the Llano caprock or as close to it as I can get every day of the week.


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## Mike CHS (Oct 29, 2016)

When I lived in Michigan we used to go the Michigan's UP hunting and fishing.  Beautiful country but I don't like 6 months of winter.  I know there isn't that much but it sure seemed like it.


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## Mike CHS (Oct 29, 2016)

Tennessee has some good buys but like everywhere else thee are some overpriced places.  The property above us on the hill is for sale but he is asking $89K for a two bedroom house on 17 acres. I thought about buying the property and renting the house but they have zero flat land and I have all the rock and hills that I want.


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## babsbag (Oct 29, 2016)

But it is really really hard to beat our weather in CA.


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## Bruce (Oct 29, 2016)

Yeah, nothing like HOT and no rain for years


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## greybeard (Oct 29, 2016)

I wouldn't know anything about that--this one broke the 2011 drought here.





 
Mar 11 2016


 
Then Again, May 01 20016


 

And then less than 30 days later, here it came again--viewed toward house from the other end.. 5-27- 2016


 
A few days later, back down to normal


 

I've had just about enough.


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## babsbag (Oct 29, 2016)

I will never have a flood at my house, but I have had more than my share of rain in Oct. We usually have next to none, over 7 inches this year. 

I like hot weather and I love no rain all summer. I have a growing season that goes from April (March sometimes) to Nov. and mud free. Love it.


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## Mini Horses (Oct 29, 2016)

Heat & no/little rain for so long -- how do you keep pastures?

  uhhh, maybe you don't.     I would be  in trouble with no pastures.....even tho I do complain about having to cut them, with none the hay would be way too costly to maintain the animals.


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## Latestarter (Oct 30, 2016)

Too much water or not enough... seems that's the way of our future everywhere. I won't have Greybeard's flooding issues here. I visited the property the first time in early September after a week straight of heavy rain. Hopefully I won't have to deal with serious drought here either, like CA. Although I guess TX did suffer with a drought like many other places. I don't know...  I just know it's always green here, which I like. And it gets rain a lot more often than the front range in CO. And rain/water isn't legislated here.  And there's no state income tax here. And though residential property taxes are high, there is a homestead exemption and I can get all but one acre on my property classified as AG, so taxes are minor on that portion. And there are still decent sized properties available at reasonable prices. And so far, the folks here have been mighty friendly.


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## Mike CHS (Oct 30, 2016)

It seems it is always the people in an area that makes a place seem like home.  We looked at some places that you could tell they were clannish but we haven't met a "stranger" in our area in the 3 plus years we have had it.


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## farmerjan (Oct 30, 2016)

Please listen to Bruce and Latestarter and get out while the prices are very much in your favor.  I too am CERTAIN that there will be another downturn like we have probably never seen, and there will more people losing everything they have and properties that will be worth less than half of what they were bought for 10 years ago.  If there was ever a time to get yourself situated financially it is now if you could sell your place.  That is nearly 100% return on your money in less than , what, 5 years or so????? If you financed 100 %  @ 460,000 and could now get 860,000, you are looking at being able to buy something really decent OUTRIGHT with money left over to do improvements or whatever.  Plus leave yourself a nice cushion for the future and then you could work only part-time and take care of things like they need to be.   Your other half could build his own shop and go in business for himself,  either full time or as a side business so that if there is a crash he could still do some side work and you wouldn't have a mortgage hanging over your head.  I cannot imagine anyone even thinking twice about that possibility.....


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## Bruce (Oct 30, 2016)

Except the BF doesn't seem interested in moving.


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## farmerjan (Oct 30, 2016)

Bruce said:


> Except the BF doesn't seem interested in moving.


Yes, I did read that the BF didn't seem interested in moving, but I was hoping that for  both their sakes, she could prevail upon his common sense in regard to the amount of return on investment, if for no other reason....Ever heard of Dave Ramsey???  he does radio programs here about getting out of debt and I keep thinking about some of what he has to say and  how they could set themselves up to be totally financially independent as well as have a bigger farm that they want, etc....  If the BF is that much of a genius as Alexz7272 says and she has that much belief in him, he should at least look at what she is saying....maybe even talk to a financial advisor....  I am talking to one now trying to explore my options due to possible changes in my job situation, my joint issues, the newest bs with our health insurance, and what is my best recourse....I"ll bet most people on here would look at the possibilities with the amount of return they can get on the place they currently have, and give their eye teeth to make a move.  It scares me to think what could/can/will happen if we have another housing bubble burst;  not withstanding the debt this country is in and what it is going to mean for the younger ones coming up.  I was just hoping that maybe something you or latestarter or even I said would get them to look at it from another point of view.


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## Bruce (Oct 30, 2016)

I don't disagree. I would be extremely fearful of living in a housing situation like that one. However, some people are racing sailboats, turn on a dime and some are air craft carriers, turn on a mile. OK bad analogy.

BF might have many reasons he wants to stay put. His job, family in the area, whatever.

@Alexz7272 is BF in the room? We have some questions for him


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## greybeard (Oct 31, 2016)

Colorado was one of the states that suffered minimal overall  damage n the last recession.


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 31, 2016)

Sorry for the late response! I ran my Jeep into a tree on Friday and was busy rebuilding it this weekend. 
Funny enough, last night he made a comment about looking into moving to Texas  We are in the planning and assessing stages I would guess. Cost of living here is becoming ridiculous and so is property taxes. His immediate family lives here in Colorado and he has never lived anywhere else, that is where his hesitation comes from. I'll need to get some numbers and calculations put together as that is what speaks to him. He did say he liked the idea of Texas because it better aligns with our political views as well, so at least he is_ thinking_ about it somewhat. However, he is the opposite of me and money is extremely important. So he'll have to find a good job to be influenced to move, seeing as I found him his current job, I say mission accepted 
Thank you for all the info!


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 31, 2016)

@Baymule What you found was extremely helpful! I think I might've gotten him drooling over the water & machine shops on some of those! 
THANK YOU!!


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 31, 2016)

I'm thinking from my experiences that Austin would be where I'd like to go, he has never been to Texas so I'll have to bring him down to get an idea of the areas. Anyone know that area and how hard it would be to find some land? Maybe a bit farther out? Also, opinions on Austin? If _*ya'll*_ don't mind


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## frustratedearthmother (Oct 31, 2016)

If you looooove being stuck in traffic for hours at a time - choose Austin!   Don't mean to diss my own state, but the traffic in Austin is a nightmare...


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 31, 2016)

@frustratedearthmother Then not Austin! Hahaha


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## Bruce (Oct 31, 2016)

Austin? You have to be nuts @Alexz7272 ! If you want affordable property you can't be close to big cities. Austin metro population is now about 2M.

http://kxan.com/2016/03/24/as-austin-population-rises-some-are-looking-to-get-out/

http://www.zillow.com/austin-tx/home-values/
And that ISN'T property with acreage for your animals.


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## Baymule (Oct 31, 2016)

I live in the Tyler area, so am kinda partial. Tyler population is over 100,000, but there is an estimated half million people a day in town because everyone drives in to work from outlying towns. You might find a good job for him in Tyler. Bear in mind that salary difference could be lower because of overall lower cost of living here versus Colorado. Happy hunting!


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## Baymule (Oct 31, 2016)

Yeah, stay away from Austin.


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 31, 2016)

Yup, staying away from Austin. I'd love to find a good 'medium' town, he doesn't like big cities anyways. I just don't know much. I'll look at Tyler too!


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 31, 2016)

I have officially found the house of my dreams  

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...94.796219,31.873475,-95.776749_rect/9_zm/2_p/


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## NH homesteader (Oct 31, 2016)

That's the house of all of our dreams. Show that to your boyfriend and ask him how much he really likes Colorado!


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## Bruce (Oct 31, 2016)

Now all they need to do is come down $200K so you can dump your mortgage!


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## Mike CHS (Oct 31, 2016)

That place is only $655K more than we paid for our place.  

But that is a dream place.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 31, 2016)

Yup same here.  We owe $24k on our place right now.  It's not much but it'll be ours free and clear before I turn 40. Everything we do from there on out will be as we can afford it,  in cash. 

TN prices are pretty darn good too!


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 31, 2016)

HE HAS OFFICIALLY SAID HE IS OPEN TO CONSIDERING IT AND INTERESTED!!!


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## NH homesteader (Oct 31, 2016)

Go you! Hey we can totally keep telling you more reasons to move along the way in case he changes his mind.  We are very convincing.


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## greybeard (Oct 31, 2016)

Alexz7272 said:


> I'm thinking from my experiences that Austin would be where I'd like to go, he has never been to Texas so I'll have to bring him down to get an idea of the areas. Anyone know that area and how hard it would be to find some land? Maybe a bit farther out? Also, opinions on Austin? If _*ya'll*_ don't mind


I don't mind a bit. If they paid me the market value of a 'dream home' near or in Austin, and that much again annually for the next 5 years, I still wouldn't move there. If Phil Sheridan were alive today he would say:
 "If I owned Austin and hades, I'd live in hades and rent out Austin"

It's not quite as bad as Paris Tx, but a very very close 2nd.


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## Baymule (Oct 31, 2016)

That is an awesome place! Satterwhite log homes have a VERY good name around here, very well made homes. Satterwhite is in Longview so is considered local. There are a lot of their log homes around and people really like them. 79 acres!! It is in a good location. Close to Tyler, easy commute, but far enough out to be "in the country". If this is what you're looking for and in your price range, jump on it.

You and your boyfriend should make a trip to Texas and look around. Get several places lined up to look at. But I must warn you, good deals go fast. When my husband and I were looking, places sold before we could even get up here to look at them.


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## Latestarter (Oct 31, 2016)

That's a beautiful property, but you can find others maybe just a bit less "perfect" at substantially less cost. https://www.trulia.com/property/3211836017-11250-County-Road-4027-Kemp-TX-75143

I also found that just searching using Zillow will cause you to miss properties as well. Also, Zillow isn't really ideal for searching for acreage properties. Another search engine you might consider looking at is http://www.landsoftexas.com/  And since taxes are a major issue for most who care about their finances, I also found this site most handy https://smartasset.com/taxes/property-taxes   TX has no income tax and running a country (TX considers itself separate from the US in many regards, and in some it is) takes money, most of which is raised here by property taxes. You can mitigate it somewhat by using the homestead exemption (knocks $25K of assessed value for tax purposes), but the biggest is the agricultural exemption. You block off 1 acre around the house to be the residential property and get the rest designated as agricultural. That way the value gets broken up and some is taxed substantially lower than the residential portion. You do however have to document ag income within 5 years to keep the exemption and not have to pay back taxes (and penalties) on the whole property. From what I understand there are 2 types of ag... timber (helps with the 5 year but can kill you years from now) or animals, and here in TX, cattle are the king when it comes to ag. TX doesn't recognize goats or chickens and the like from what I understand.

Sales taxes are steeper than CO as well, you can get an ag exemption for that as well where you'll pay no sales tax on materials and supplies that are directly geared toward the ag portion of the property... animal feed, fertilizers, equipment, fencing, etc. That can save you a bundle! And I guess it even includes dog food.

Really glad your SO is willing to consider it. If he's really a "city slicker" type, and I'm guessing that he is, you might want to look NE-E-SE of Dallas. I know you said he doesn't like big cities, but he does want to be within reach of higher paying jobs and such... That way he'll be within reach of a BIG city and all that it offers... You'll be in the eastern portion of the state which has the highest annual rainfall (it's GREEN!) and an hour outside Dallas you'll be in country. Really, there are some decent "small cities" east of Dallas, Tyler being one of the largest.

There are no mountains down here for you to climb to escape the heat (and humidity... remember there's a LOT of humidity down here!) and the further south you go, the higher the humidity gets. Also, hurricanes do sometimes move ashore along the TX coast, which is pretty flat, so they carry massive amounts of rain and flooding inland quite a ways. So as I was recommended, you might consider drawing a line east/west and stay north of that line.


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## Baymule (Oct 31, 2016)

Here's a cute place on 73 acres for $449,900. It's in Van Zandt county, between Tyler and Canton, giving your boyfriend 2 towns to find work in. Or he could drive to Dallas. And the best part is it is only about 15 miles from me! LOL Really, the best part is that ya'll could pay cash for it after you sell your place. On the Google earth view, tap it a couple of times to move out the view, we're across I-20 in Garden Valley.

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/4405-FM-1995-Van-Texas-75790/2380069

Seriously, finding a place you could pay cash for from the proceeds of selling your current home would be a good idea. There are some real nice places out there, but you have to find them. And it depends on where your boyfriend finds work.


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## babsbag (Oct 31, 2016)

@Mini Horses I don't have pastures and the people that do have large wells, live in an irrigation district, or have water rights to a major river; I have neither. The norm is virtually no rain May-Oct and that is the way I like it. Pretty much everyone I know buys hay for their livestock.


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 31, 2016)

He thankfully is not _quite_ a city-slicker but his father is the regional Vice President for HP, so he grew up how we could say, comfortably.   
He has made two things a requirement, a large machine shop & water. He said if it has a pond or lake he'd be extremely interested. Yay! Just happy he is considering things more too. You guys are AWESOME! 

@Latestarter Thank you so much for those sites, I will share that with him!


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## TAH (Nov 1, 2016)

We had friends they use to live a  half hour from Paris and loved it. We consider several times moving to Texas but God had other plans.


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## Bruce (Nov 1, 2016)

Alexz7272 said:


> He thankfully is not _quite_ a city-slicker but his father is the regional Vice President for HP, so he grew up how we could say, comfortably.
> He has made two things a requirement, a large machine shop & water. He said if it has a pond or lake he'd be extremely interested. Yay! Just happy he is considering things more too. You guys are AWESOME!
> 
> @Latestarter Thank you so much for those sites, I will share that with him!



If there is no pond, you can sometimes create one depending on the terrain. The pond behind my barn is "I don't know how old" but it is man made, probably before the advent of excavators. The NE section is sedimentary ledge, the west and north walls are all "dredged up from making the pond". 

So ... I know an HP VP, how stable is BF's Dad's job? I'm guessing NOT given I talked to her just a week ago and she said HP is breaking up (no surprise there). Her position was eliminated and she is in a new one but she figures 6 months before she goes through it again.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 1, 2016)

Alexz7272 said:


> I have officially found the house of my dreams
> 
> http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...94.796219,31.873475,-95.776749_rect/9_zm/2_p/



That place looks nice but WAY overpriced!! Area homes are less then 300k, the property accessed at 346k and they have been trying to sell it since September 2013. Houses that are good deals for the area do not sit on the market for 3+yrs and property taxes are almost 6k/yr. This house is literally the most expensive house listed for sale in/near Tyler.

This house is only 2yrs old and on 33 acres and just sold for 285k 
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...5,-95.035515,32.137827,-95.518914_rect/10_zm/

This place looks like a nice deal. 85 acres with all your barns up already and paddocks fenced(not sure what all livestock you want), ponds stocked with fish, barn stalls, hay barn, feed silo, grain/feed room, shop..etc. Most things you could want i would think asking 478k and only 5mins from Tyler. Admittedly the house is kinda poopy but being 225k less then the other place you could build your own house. You can put up a really nice house for less then 150k as far as i know. http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...5.035515,32.137827,-95.518914_rect/10_zm/2_p/

I gotta say i LOVE this place
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...5.035515,32.137827,-95.518914_rect/10_zm/2_p/
But again its overpriced by about 70k

This is one of the worst offenders
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...5.035515,32.137827,-95.518914_rect/10_zm/2_p/
Overpriced by approx 150k

Then you also have to watch for the reverse though....This house is listed at 565k and is goregous but tax wise it is taxed like it is worth $1,061,000 approx so yearly taxes are over 9k.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...5.035515,32.137827,-95.518914_rect/10_zm/2_p/
This listing has a typo glitch for acerage its only on 10acres.

Also these places which zillow does not have all of them listed.
http://www.kw.com/homes-for-sale/75703/TX/Tyler/15030-County-Road-1131/3yd-GTARTX-10049271.html

I definitely think a trip is in order. 

You wanna keep in mind how many animals you want, their upkeep time, how far it is to possible work or buying farm supplies, groceries etc, yearly taxes, monthly payment(do you really wanna pay 3k+ per month), type of climate you like(no snow is nice but having animals get heat stroke sucks as bad as frostbite). If one of you gets hurt outside of work and cant work for awhile can you still afford the payments? The housing market is getting ready to crash again and soon, do you want to buy a brand new place to end up oweing way more then it is worth because you overpaid in the first place? How many acres of property do you NEED? For most people buying and maintaining 60-80acres is not reasonable alongside a full time job. If the property needs any infrastructure such as barns, water lines, fencing, gates, sheds, shops, garages, house, driveways, property cleaned up, stalls, hay storage...do you have time and money left over to do those things. If you plan on keeping goats/sheep and the fencing is for cattle/horses you know your going to have to re-fence it all and i can tell you minimal fencing with the "cheap" field fence on 20acres is around 30k if you do it yourself...so 30k times 3 or 4...it adds up.

Personally i think the biggest question would be do you wanna be the Jone's or do you wanna be the Smith's. You can have a really exspensive house and pay thru the nose for 30-40yrs or you can live in a completely paid for house on 25-55acres so you have 3k of fluid income a month to invest in livestock, nice vacation, new fencing etc lol.


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## Bruce (Nov 1, 2016)

@misfitmorgan I agree, the house on the second listing can't be much since there a just a few pictures of it and tons of pictures outside and in the outbuildings. The 4th listing - paying for their custom work I guess. And the $.5M price tag is $90K down from before last month. 

And the last Zillow listing. You mean it DOESN'T have over 49,000 acres?? bummer  Not sure what makes that a million dollar home and why is it taxed at that much if it is for sale at the bargain price of $565K. Down $10K 6 weeks ago which means it was overpriced at $575K)


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## Alexz7272 (Nov 1, 2016)

You all are AMAZING and super helpful, thank you!  

To answer you @misfitmorgan We ideally wouldn't want more then 20 acres, we'd be happy with 10. 
I think we are planning to stick to sheep, a few goats, a few hogs and the birds of course. We are definitely doing more or a homesteading situation and selling excess on as a side business, not our main business. That being said, does anyone have experience owning a business in Texas? We currently have a contract engineering business that obviously we'd relocate with us. It's just the two of us and it is a registered LLC, I know NOTHING about moving something like that. We also are about to get one our patents issued come December and start production on that. I'll have to look that all up I guess. 
As far as infrastructure, it would be nice if it was already set up, but we could do it ourselves too (yes I know lots of work). The main thing it has to have is a big (reasonable) machine shop, we have a lot of machinery we'd be moving down. Totally not looking forward to even the potential of that.
Soooo much to think about!


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## Latestarter (Nov 1, 2016)

A main thing you have to keep in mind.... try to do nothing less than 11 acres... I'm not sure as I've heard mixed info, but I believe it runs by county and there's a minimum acreage required to get the ag exemption. You must have a min of 1 acre attached to the house, and although I guess some counties allow ag exempt with 5 acres, I believe most are 10 or more acres of ag required. You really don't want to pay full property tax on the whole 20 acres (can you say OUCH?!) if you can avoid it. On my 19 acres, the difference is ~ 1 grand vs almost 3 grand/year in property taxes.


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## Alexz7272 (Nov 1, 2016)

@Latestarter THANK YOU!  We definitely want AG exemption.


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## Mike CHS (Nov 1, 2016)

Farms here have to be over 10 acres for most programs.  I'm not sure if there is a minimum for the sales tax exemption (if you guys have that in Texas) but it has saved us several hundred dollars just in fencing supplies.


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## Baymule (Nov 1, 2016)

I would definitely use the profit from selling your current home to pay CASH for your new home. Then if the market takes a downturn, and we all know it's coming, your place is all paid for.

Do I hear ROAD TRIP?


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## greybeard (Nov 2, 2016)

Texas ag exemptions are complicated and vary widely.
First off, it is not an exemption, even tho everyone calls it that. It's simply a different way of valuation by each county's appraisal district and there are generally 2 different kinds. Hobby farmers generally do not qualify for either, tho the bar is set pretty low by some counties.
1. Open space valuation. This is the most commonly applied for valuation. For small farmer/rancher.
2. Agricultural use valuation.  This is for the serious farmer/rancher that derives all or most of their livlihood from the land.
Open Space Valuation=Qualified open-space land" means land that is currently devoted principally to agricultural use to the * degree of intensity generally accepted in the area * and that has been devoted principally to agricultural use or to production of timber or forest products for five of the preceding seven years
Ag Use valuation=Land designated for agricultural use is appraised at its value based on the land's capacity to produce agricultural products.  The value of land based on its capacity to produce agricultural products is determined by capitalizing the average net income the land would have yielded under prudent management from production of agricultural products during the five years preceding the current year.
See the astericks?  That 'degree of intensity generally accepted for the area' is what gets a lot of people in tax trouble.
It is specifically written to disqualify hobbyists who apply simply to get a devaluation and have no intent or plan to make their ag endeavor show income.  The counties each have different ideas what defines degree of intensity.
Here are some examples:
 Grayson County:


> LIVESTOCK / STOCKING RATES (based on the Degree of Intensity) established January 1, 2005 BEEF :
> Cattle operation on Improved Pasture: 1 animal unit (1,000 lbs) per 3 acres of productive land mass.
> 
> Cattle operation on Native Pasture: 1 animal unit (1,000 lbs) per 7-10 acres of productive land mass.
> ...



Caldwell County:


> CALDWELL COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT- DEGREE OF INTENSITY STANDARDS The “degree of intensity” test measures whether the land is being farmed or ranched to the extent typical for agricultural operations. This test is intended to exclude land on which token agricultural use occurs in an effort to obtain tax relief. The degree of intensity test measures what the property owner/operator is putting into the agricultural operation (in time, labor, equipment, management, and capital), and compares it with typical levels of inputs for the same type of operations in the area generally. In addition, a property owner/operator should be able to verify purchases and sales of livestock and/or farm products by bill of sale, sales receipt, or other documentation. The following standards will be applied by Caldwell County Appraisal District:
> OPERATION TYPE.. MINIMUM NUMBERS.. NUMBER OFFSPRING / YEAR
> Cow / Calf ............4 Cows........................ 3 Calves
> Stocker Calves .......8 Calves
> ...



Don't get caught several years down the road not meeting the qualifications--you can have to pay back the difference between residential valuation and ag valuation PLUS a substantial penalty/interest for late payment. They don't recognize pets as qualifiers.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 2, 2016)

Alexz7272 said:


> You all are AMAZING and super helpful, thank you!
> 
> To answer you @misfitmorgan We ideally wouldn't want more then 20 acres, we'd be happy with 10.
> I think we are planning to stick to sheep, a few goats, a few hogs and the birds of course. We are definitely doing more or a homesteading situation and selling excess on as a side business, not our main business. That being said, does anyone have experience owning a business in Texas? We currently have a contract engineering business that obviously we'd relocate with us. It's just the two of us and it is a registered LLC, I know NOTHING about moving something like that. We also are about to get one our patents issued come December and start production on that. I'll have to look that all up I guess.
> ...



I dont know Texas pastures but i know in Michigan 15 acres would be plenty of room for what your wanting to do. For the LLC it is a pain in the butt!! This website can outline options for you http://www.bizfilings.com/learn/moving-business.aspx
By far moving a sole proprietorship is so much easier, i refuse to move any of our LLC's i would rather dissolve them and make new ones but thats just me.



greybeard said:


> Texas ag exemptions are complicated and vary widely.
> First off, it is not an exemption, even tho everyone calls it that. It's simply a different way of valuation by each county's appraisal district and there are generally 2 different kinds. Hobby farmers generally do not qualify for either, tho the bar is set pretty low by some counties.
> 1. Open space valuation. This is the most commonly applied for valuation. For small farmer/rancher.
> 2. Agricultural use valuation.  This is for the serious farmer/rancher that derives all or most of their livlihood from the land.
> ...



That's poopy..sooooo much easier here. Just need more then 50% devoted to ag which can be anything aside from horses and chickens, they dont count..but anything esle does hay, trees, berry bushes, orchards, garden, you can even rent out the land to someone else to farm it and still qualify.


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## greybeard (Nov 2, 2016)

In Texas, we can also rent out the land for ag and still get the devalued appraisal. After all, it is all about the land value and it's productivity, not who the individuals are that's doing the work.  That last part comes, with the cottonpickin agriculture census the USDoA/TxDoA sends out every few years.  It's pretty extensive and local appraisal district gets a copy IIRC.
My sister owns 41 acres right beside me, and she's under ag, my twin brother has 24 ac beside me in the other direction, lives full time in Arkansas and his Tx property is on ag as well--neither owns a cow, got or any other kind of livestock but both leased their property to me and a neighbor, and therefore falls under ag valuation.

One of the reasons it is more difficult to get ag in Texas is we have no state income tax. State income tax is not just for state project use--a portion of that tax revenue, according to area populations is given back to each county to use in their local projects and maintenance. So, without that state income tax, Texas  counties have to get as much local property and school tax revenue as it needs. Michigan has a state income tax, (4.25%) and about the same state sales tax rate (6%) as Texas (6.8%) . With Texas local/county sales taxes capped by state statute at 2% max, (Tx max total sales tax not to exceed 8.25%) that means both states sales taxes are nearly the same, but Texas counties have no state income tax to claw back. They rely on that property tax to keep up county roads, and we have a lot of roads the counties have to keep up.

If I read the Michagan regs correctly, horses do qualify for ag, but only if they are raised in production mode and not simply for recreational use, and Michigan does use a 'degree of intensity' qualifier as well, but they call it an "animal to acreage ratio" instead, even if the landowner is unaware exactly how the ratio is computed. (appraisal details and such from those type offices are generally a tightly kept secret akin to stuff usually relegated to Langly Va) 



> *What is meant by “acre-to-animal ratio” in relation to the qualified agricultural property exemption?*
> For any animal, the “acre-to-animal ratio” is the number of acres it takes to support 1 of that animal. For instance, it may typically take 3 acres to support 1 dairy cow. The acre-toanimal ratio for dairy cows would then be 3 to 1. (This ratio was created without significant research and may or may not be an accurate acre-to-animal ratio for dairy cows.)



There's more explanation of that on pg 24-25 of Michigan's Dept of Treasury website:
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/uploads/234/71344/Qualified_Agricultural_Prop_BOOK_139854_7.pdf


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## NH homesteader (Nov 2, 2016)

That's interesting. We also have no state income tax,  or sales tax.  So property taxes are really high.  No agriculture specific tax rate but we have "current use"  which  is undeveloped land used either for agriculture or left as "wild"  land.  However we can not build anything on land in current use.  No barn,  nothing. Except fencing is OK.  So from what understand we need to carve an acre off for the house and barn (we don't have a barn yet,  but if we build one)  and the rest can be fenced in for animals.  Kind of a pain.


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## norseofcourse (Nov 2, 2016)

We have income taxes, sales taxes, and property taxes in Ohio.

In my county (and it may the be the same or similar for other counties in Ohio), the agricultural exemption is called CAUV, and there's two ways to get it.  First way is to have 10 acres or more in agricultural use (no animal ratio I'm aware of), and they deduct 1 acre for the house, so you'd have to own at least 11 acres.  The second way, if you don't have enough acreage, is to make at least $2500 per year gross from agricultural income, which is what I'm going for.  This would include income from my lamb and fleece, as well as any income that would be considered 'farm' - seedlings, plants, vegetables or fruits, etc.  Income from boarding horses or other livestock would count, too, although I don't plan on doing that.

Stuff that I buy for the production of agricultural stuff is exempt from sales tax, but fencing and stuff for buildings are specifically excluded from the sales tax exemption.  And the exemption is not for animals raised for my own consumption, so that can be difficult to separate out...


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 2, 2016)

greybeard said:


> In Texas, we can also rent out the land for ag and still get the devalued appraisal. After all, it is all about the land value and it's productivity, not who the individuals are that's doing the work.  That last part comes, with the cottonpickin agriculture census the USDoA/TxDoA sends out every few years.  It's pretty extensive and local appraisal district gets a copy IIRC.
> My sister owns 41 acres right beside me, and she's under ag, my twin brother has 24 ac beside me in the other direction, lives full time in Arkansas and his Tx property is on ag as well--neither owns a cow, got or any other kind of livestock but both leased their property to me and a neighbor, and therefore falls under ag valuation.
> 
> One of the reasons it is more difficult to get ag in Texas is we have no state income tax. State income tax is not just for state project use--a portion of that tax revenue, according to area populations is given back to each county to use in their local projects and maintenance. So, without that state income tax, Texas  counties have to get as much local property and school tax revenue as it needs. Michigan has a state income tax, (4.25%) and about the same state sales tax rate (6%) as Texas (6.8%) . With Texas local/county sales taxes capped by state statute at 2% max, (Tx max total sales tax not to exceed 8.25%) that means both states sales taxes are nearly the same, but Texas counties have no state income tax to claw back. They rely on that property tax to keep up county roads, and we have a lot of roads the counties have to keep up.
> ...



Yeah they dont actually use that in my county. They dont even go look at properties 95% of the time..they just go by the permits issued or what you tell them. DH went down to the tax lady and told her we needed to be listed as ag and she changed it on the spot and printed a new tax paper. Keep in mind we dont own the property, we just lease it....the owners have another residence in the next town over. Of course you also have to make an appointment to see the tax lady because it is only her part-time side job. The tax accessor also only works part-time on the side. Michigan gets more revenue because they send less taxes to schools since the lottery supports the schools, which means they have more regular tax money to spend on roads and such.

Forgot to mention we qualified from the use of the hay field btw...nothing to do with our livestock. There is 12 acres of hay field and we cut it once this year so the entire 20 acre property falls under ag use.


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## greybeard (Nov 2, 2016)

Sounds like a pretty good setup there in Ohio Norse.  Still they basically say the same thing most states do.



> *What about you? Who qualifies for CAUV?*
> This list ranges from aquaculture to apiculture and field crops to flowers. Timber and animal husbandry, including horses, is there, too.
> 
> But the key word is “commercial.”
> ...


http://www.farmanddairy.com/news/tax-time-thinking-about-cauv-do-you-qualify/1620.html

It's why I tell anyone moving here, to get their Ps & Qs in order and keep them in order if they want to qual for ag ....and stay that way.
There are other financial advantages to being in Texas agriculture.
1. Farm related sales tax exemptions--in Texas, you have to apply for farm tax exempt status tax # and 'the little guys' generally can't get it without being on land ag valuation, or a bona fide full time employee of a farm or ranch.
2. Farm tags for vehicles--trucks/trailers. Lots cheaper. Requires the tax stamp to get them. Far tag (license plates) can also increase the allowed GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) on a truck and trailer.  I can legally haul a lot more wt with my truck and trailer with farm tags than if they had regular lic plates. I have seen people get overweight  tickets for hauling a few cows in a 14' bumper pull stock trailer with regular tags on the vehicle and trailer, but wouldn't have gotten the ticket if they had farm tags.

In  Texas, tax records are private and the appraisal office is a stickler about that.When one applies for the ag valuation, don't expect the appraisal folks to tell you if it has met the '3 previous years on ag' requirement--they won't. It's up to the new land owner to find that info from the seller and be able to prove it to the appraisal officer--otherwise, that ag valuation won't kick in for the new owner for 3 years, no matter how many cattle he is running or how many acres he has under cultivation for those first 3 years..

They come out and check here periodically. Gave my sister a hard time when they looked her 41 wooded acres over good and couldn't find any indication of cattle being on it--no cow manure. Cows just don't like to go over there much---too many mosquitos and not much grass anyway. They check mine with aerial view--the cattle show up real good on their helo and satellite  photos. 

The county told me I could take as little or as much as I wanted for my home expemption (Homestead) but the guy said I would have to show I was in fact using the whole place as my homestead residence (yard). I set aside 1/2 acre for my homestead, as the ag valuation is lower than the homestead exemption, meaning the more I use for house and yard, the more in total taxes I would pay, as that extra 1/2 acre wouldn't be ag qualified.


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## Bruce (Nov 2, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> That's interesting. We also have no state income tax,  or sales tax.  So property taxes are really high.  No agriculture specific tax rate but we have "current use"  which  is undeveloped land used either for agriculture or left as "wild"  land.  However we can not build anything on land in current use.  No barn,  nothing. Except fencing is OK.  So from what understand we need to carve an acre off for the house and barn (we don't have a barn yet,  but if we build one)  and the rest can be fenced in for animals.  Kind of a pain.


Our "current use" requires the land be used for agriculture or forestry. No break for leaving land wild for the benefit of the animals. And, as I said before, we need a minimum of 27 acres since the minimum is 25 and you must have 2 for the house.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 2, 2016)

norseofcourse said:


> We have income taxes, sales taxes, and property taxes in Ohio.
> 
> In my county (and it may the be the same or similar for other counties in Ohio), the agricultural exemption is called CAUV, and there's two ways to get it.  First way is to have 10 acres or more in agricultural use (no animal ratio I'm aware of), and they deduct 1 acre for the house, so you'd have to own at least 11 acres.  The second way, if you don't have enough acreage, is to make at least $2500 per year gross from agricultural income, which is what I'm going for.  This would include income from my lamb and fleece, as well as any income that would be considered 'farm' - seedlings, plants, vegetables or fruits, etc.  Income from boarding horses or other livestock would count, too, although I don't plan on doing that.
> 
> Stuff that I buy for the production of agricultural stuff is exempt from sales tax, but fencing and stuff for buildings are specifically excluded from the sales tax exemption.  And the exemption is not for animals raised for my own consumption, so that can be difficult to separate out...



Oh yeah i forgot about that.

Oh Ag Use is literally called Ag Exemption on the property tax paper so maybe its my states fault everyone calls it that. We have sales tax, income tax and property tax. We are tax exempt for anything for ag use feed, fencing, posts, electric wire, fencer, building materials, feeders, waterers, dog food, anything that could be used for farming/livestock/shelter.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 2, 2016)

greybeard said:


> Sounds like a pretty good setup there in Ohio Norse.  Still they basically say the same thing most states do.
> 
> 
> http://www.farmanddairy.com/news/tax-time-thinking-about-cauv-do-you-qualify/1620.html
> ...



For us to get tax exempt you just have to go online and get a EIN for free and then fill out the paperwork for each store you wanna be tax exempt at and it does not have anything to do with being commercial or not here.

We can also get farm plates for our vehicles it does however not change the weight your allowed to tow but unless you using a semi to haul no one pays attention to it.


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## greybeard (Nov 2, 2016)

Yep, our appraisal folks call it an exemption too--in voice, but not on paper. 
Texas Dept of Public Safety (state highway patrol) will squeeze a nickel to get a dime if they can, so they sometimes set those scales up on US 59 on Saturdays when everyone is hauling stock to the sale barn.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 2, 2016)

greybeard said:


> Yep, our appraisal folks call it an exemption too--in voice, but not on paper.
> Texas Dept of Public Safety (state highway patrol) will squeeze a nickel to get a dime if they can, so they sometimes set those scales up on US 59 on Saturdays when everyone is hauling stock to the sale barn.



Well thats a dirty thing to do! DOT here will occasionally go after those hauling stock with semi trucks to make sure they are not overweight but that is way different then going after someone hauling with a pickup and trailer. Not to say we dont have our fair share of cops who are having a bad day and wanna be jerks but for the most part they let the farmers slide on a lot here at least in my area.


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## greybeard (Nov 2, 2016)

well, they got a job to do same as everyone else I guess, and to be fair, I've seen some of these 'wood folk' with pretty ragged looking trailers show up on sale day, that I'd be afraid to haul a pen of bunnies down the road in. When they go to swing the back gate open at pickup and the whole thing breaks off the rusty hinges, it's not good. my stuff isn't close to perfect, but i won't endanger the public if it isn't road worthy.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 3, 2016)

greybeard said:


> well, they got a job to do same as everyone else I guess, and to be fair, I've seen some of these 'wood folk' with pretty ragged looking trailers show up on sale day, that I'd be afraid to haul a pen of bunnies down the road in. When they go to swing the back gate open at pickup and the whole thing breaks off the rusty hinges, it's not good. my stuff isn't close to perfect, but i won't endanger the public if it isn't road worthy.



That's why i said our fair share of cops who are having a bad day and want to be a jerk....i dont dislike cops and everyone has their days. For the most part they leave small farmers alone though which is what i was getting at. I've never seen anyone haul livestock in anything that bad up here not even to auction but we dont have wood folks or hill folks much so that could be why.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 3, 2016)

Police here don't even look at trucks with ag plates.  I appreciate that!


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## Alexz7272 (Nov 8, 2016)

Whelp! Thanks to Colorado voting to increase the minimum wage to $15 an hour, the boyfriend is 90% on board to move to Texas within the next year! This is the ONLY time I will say thank you to the Liberals of this state, hahaha!


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## Latestarter (Nov 8, 2016)

OMG... they did?! What IDIOTS! The cost of living there is now going to skyrocket!


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## Latestarter (Nov 8, 2016)

I am so glad I got out when I did! I sure hope you folks don't wait too long...


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## Alexz7272 (Nov 8, 2016)

@Latestarter THEY DID!! 
I make $16 an hour as an office manager and I work my ass off doing all accounts payable, inventory, marketing, patient files, insurance and all bookkeeping. Soo now I'll get a HUGE payrise, right? UGHHHH


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## Latestarter (Nov 8, 2016)

I'm just shaking my head in almost complete disbelief... Of course the dumbing down of the public school and "common core" (teach to the lowest common denominator) education system combined with the ultra liberal college education push has raised several generations now of (edit to add MOSTLY - some survived intact) brain dead people... Sorry Alex...


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## NH homesteader (Nov 9, 2016)

Good time to get out! @Latestarter I was a public school teacher who will be home schooling my daughter....  You are so right...  It's so sad.


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## Baymule (Nov 9, 2016)

@Alexz7272 have ya'll thought about buying land and building what you want? You could build your shop the way you want it, making sure that the slab would hold the machinery and equipment you have. And you could build a small living quarters in it to live in while you built your home. There are two 17 acre tracts a couple of miles from us, and they would be about 7 miles from I-20. I-20 would be easy access to Tyler or Canton and about an hour and a half to Dallas.

http://www.boborealty.com/search/La...-FOR-SALE-IN-SMITH-COUNTY-NEAR-LINDALE/924453

http://www.boborealty.com/search/La...T-TEXAS-IN-LINDALE-SMITH-COUNTY-TEXAS-/924377


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## Baymule (Nov 9, 2016)

If it's going to be a year before you move, you will have time to get what you want, where you want. But if you find something you like, move fast on it. Good places don't last long. I think the word is out on Texas real estate.


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## animalmom (Nov 10, 2016)

@Alexz7272, telecommute!  Whisper that into your fella's ear.  One does not need to live in a big city to have a big city job... telecommute!


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## Latestarter (Nov 10, 2016)

Not sure when the new minimum CO wage is supposed to kick in, but the state economy is going to go squirrelly just before that happens and I have no idea how long before it settles out or what the ramifications will be. Were I you, I hope it works out for you when the time comes. I think were I you, I'd be thinking to get out sooner rather than later.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 14, 2016)

They keep talking about wanting to raise min wage here in michigan to $15/hr as well i would freak out if they did, it would totally kill every single small business here that we NEED so we can keep some kind of reasonable number of jobs.

On a side note...i wanna move, winter is coming. If i could get a better paying job i could probly talk hubby into it 

Glad your getting to move though Alex!



Latestarter said:


> I'm just shaking my head in almost complete disbelief... Of course the dumbing down of the public school and "common core" (teach to the lowest common denominator) education system combined with the ultra liberal college education push has raised several generations now of (edit to add MOSTLY - some survived intact) brain dead people... Sorry Alex...


Hubby and i survived  but i know exactly what you mean. My younger brother i love him and he is smart but he is all about "what can i get", "what is the benefit for me", "everyone owes me"....truly the gimme/i'm owed generation. He still lives at my parents house, though he is now going to college which i am pretty proud of him for but i wish he would get rid of that mindset of the world owing him things. A friend of his who is a twit to be honest was on the other day about how he "deserves" a nice car because he works hard i pretty much lost it and schooled the poor kid. This kid dropped out of high school, has only ever held two jobs and only for roughly 3 months each, he is on food stamps and lives in his mothers house where she does everything for him from cleaning to cooking to his laundry. i can't stand the younger generation who is like that....yeah you work hard alright, hard at doing nothing at all.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 14, 2016)

Wow...  That would drive me nuts! I try very hard to teach my daughter that you don't deserve fancy things just for existing! 

I survived public school too but my husband ended up in a private military school (apparently he was a troublemaker lol).  It has gotten a lot worse since I was in school.  And being a former teacher,  I will not be sending my kid to public school.  Most of the day is wasted time,  when i can teach my daughter more at home in 2 hours of traditional schooling and spend the rest of the day working on the homestead or volunteering...  

OK off my soapbox now. 

Let's just all move to Texas huh?


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## farmerjan (Nov 14, 2016)

The countryside in Va is pretty nice, as is the western part of NC and anywhere in the mountains/foothills.  We get winter but it doesn't last as long as up north....Had 26 yesterday then sun and up to the 70's,  and 28 this morning.  A little sleety rain early for a few minutes, and chilly today;  But tomorrow and the rest of the week is supposed to be up in the 60's.  Don't think I could take the heat in Texas,  90's here about does me in.


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## Mini Horses (Nov 14, 2016)

FarmerJan, sounds like you may be in between Charlottesville & Roanoke areas?  I'm in far SE of state but really like the general weather of the State.   I was warmer than you this AM but, all else pretty much same.   I like the gentle roll of the terrain in the Blacksburg to Roanoke areas but, no moves seen in future, LOL.   Winter cold not my thing, FL tooo sandy, TX some nice spots but, way long move for me to somewhere I just don't know well.  

Looks like I'm here!!   It's all good.  Some years the summer is a little hotter than I'd like & further inland is somewhat less of that.
Overall, I like VA.  NC has some nice areas, as you say.


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## farmerjan (Nov 14, 2016)

I'm in the Staunton - Lexington area.


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## Mini Horses (Nov 14, 2016)

Pretty up there !!   Spent a lot of time at Lexington Horse Park about 15 yrs ago.  Once, when I was young and overly ambitious, my then DH & I looked at a couple farms in Staunton.   Mind you, 40 yrs ago it was cheap...especially down a dirt road & up a hillside to a long abandoned old house.   

But I wanted a farm soooo badly, similar to grandparents in WV.  Didn't happen there but, did buy in NC along VA border.  Divorce, moves, more land in VA.   I'm settle in now but, love the area where you are.    Land there is way more than I need to pay now.  Such is life.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 14, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> The countryside in Va is pretty nice, as is the western part of NC and anywhere in the mountains/foothills.  We get winter but it doesn't last as long as up north....Had 26 yesterday then sun and up to the 70's,  and 28 this morning.  A little sleety rain early for a few minutes, and chilly today;  But tomorrow and the rest of the week is supposed to be up in the 60's.  Don't think I could take the heat in Texas,  90's here about does me in.



Atm i like my weather better low was 40 last night and high is 60 today...i am sure i will change my mind in a few weeks when we have a foot of snow and it is in the 20s. Last year was really only bad for about 3 weeks which i was very happy about.

If they would just keep the outdoor heat on during winter i would be fine living here...oh and long days  The winter depression is starting to set in but i am trying to stay positive about it...just sucks so badly when you get home at 4:30-5pm and it is dark at 5:30pm.

I will probly seriously look into moving when my folks pass away or if i found a really good job in my line of work so i could afford to visit home fairly often.


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## Latestarter (Nov 14, 2016)

I hear all of you and there are indeed beautiful places all across out country. Seems every place has a little something to offer that isn't quite as good some place else. Loved New England for the fall colors and that general time of year, Also the summers weren't as long or as hot, but that doesn't really exist here. Cold didn't used to bother me but I've begun to like it less as I've gotten older. Past few days have been wonderful with night temps around 40 and day temps right around 70 +/-5 degrees or so. Up that way is very expensive to live and very crowded as well. I loved living in Tidewater VA, close to the beach and ocean fishing, great fresh seafood, but more traffic than anyone could possibly hope for combined with high all around taxation. FL was hot, flat, all sand and either palm trees or pine trees... yuck!

I guess we all become more or less "comfortable" about where we live and take the "bad" with the "good" and very few really "like change" or the unknown, and moving covers both of those bases fairly well. Having spent my active years in the military, putting down roots wasn't really an option, so I spent my "formative years" from Maine to FL and in between in VA. Then I spent 15 years out in Colorado. I'm pretty sure where I'm at now is where I'm staying. Home is where I decide I want to be, regardless of where parents/siblings/kids/relatives are located. They all have their lives to live too. About the only thing that might change that would be winning the lottery. But then I would be able to afford basically all my dreams and could have multiple places and travel. I think we all know the odds of that happening


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 14, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> I hear all of you and there are indeed beautiful places all across out country. Seems every place has a little something to offer that isn't quite as good some place else. Loved New England for the fall colors and that general time of year, Also the summers weren't as long or as hot, but that doesn't really exist here. Cold didn't used to bother me but I've begun to like it less as I've gotten older. Past few days have been wonderful with night temps around 40 and day temps right around 70 +/-5 degrees or so. Up that way is very expensive to live and very crowded as well. I loved living in Tidewater VA, close to the beach and ocean fishing, great fresh seafood, but more traffic than anyone could possibly hope for combined with high all around taxation. FL was hot, flat, all sand and either palm trees or pine trees... yuck!
> 
> I guess we all become more or less "comfortable" about where we live and take the "bad" with the "good" and very few really "like change" or the unknown, and moving covers both of those bases fairly well. Having spent my active years in the military, putting down roots wasn't really an option, so I spent my "formative years" from Maine to FL and in between in VA. Then I spent 15 years out in Colorado. I'm pretty sure where I'm at now is where I'm staying. Home is where I decide I want to be, regardless of where parents/siblings/kids/relatives are located. They all have their lives to live too. About the only thing that might change that would be winning the lottery. But then I would be able to afford basically all my dreams and could have multiple places and travel. I think we all know the odds of that happening



I moved around the US and over seas for many years i only moved back to michigan 5yrs ago. I decided to stay here because of my dad mostly. My dad was in the marines during Vietnam and often was one of the first teams in when the agent orange was many many times still dripping off the plants. As a result he has all the classic signs of agent orange, including we discovered 4 yrs ago the agent orange chemicals are actually eatting away his cerebellum and will eventually end up killing him. in the past 8 yrs he has gone from an active man in his early 60s to having incredible balance problems where he falls down a lot, his spine is deteriorating, he can no longer drive a car because he does not have the coordination. He also had a heart attack that required a triple by pass at 43yrs old which the non-VA doctors say is common in those exposed to high levels of agent orange. However the VA says none of his symptoms are from his activities when he was active duty so they are not giving him much help or support. On top of all of that my father has always suffered from PTSD very badly but refuses treatment for it. Even to the point he used to wake my mother up with his rifles out and tell here "their out there right now watching us and their going to kill us all" he ment the gorillas and would be running around the house with a loaded rifle looking out the windows. Thankfully he has gotten a bit better but he still has symptoms of PTSD which will never go away. So yeah i decided to stay here until my father passes away as i dont think there is much time left and i spent 11yrs moving all over the place and hardly ever seeing him.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 14, 2016)

Thanks to your dad for his service and I'm so sorry that this is happening to him.  Far too frequent story I'm afraid.  Those who were in Vietnam have had the most unfair time of it... You're a good daughter for sticking around.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 14, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Thanks to your dad for his service and I'm so sorry that this is happening to him.  Far too frequent story I'm afraid.  Those who were in Vietnam have had the most unfair time of it... You're a good daughter for sticking around.


Ditto! I have a lot of respect for that. I "tip my hat" to you @misfitmorgan


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## norseofcourse (Nov 14, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Thanks to your dad for his service and I'm so sorry that this is happening to him.  Far too frequent story I'm afraid.  Those who were in Vietnam have had the most unfair time of it... You're a good daughter for sticking around.


I'll add my thanks, too... @NH homesteader said it very well.


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## Baymule (Nov 14, 2016)

@misfitmorgan I am so sorry for your Dad and his health problems. My older brother was a Marine in Viet Nam. He came home a changed man. He died several years ago from Shy-Drager disease. You can't tell me that it wasn't caused by exposure to Agent Orange. He slowly lost all muscle control until he could only communicate by raising his eyebrow. And finally, even that was gone.

http://brainfoundation.org.au/disorders/shy-drager-syndrome

He went to the VA for years, as he was disabled, and kept getting worse and worse with no diagnosis. Finally he lost muscle control one night and his wife had to call an ambulance. He was carried to a civilian hospital where a diagnosis was made. He and his wife looked back and figured he had had this terrible disease for 7 years and life expectancy is 7-10 years. He died less than a year later. The VA is a shameful excuse of medical care foisted upon our heroes.

Big hugs to you for spending this time with your Dad. It is heart breaking to watch a loved one suffer and waste away. I am so sorry.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 15, 2016)

Thanks everyone 

i really just wanna spend time with him but its so hard because its so hard to watch him go from the strong outdoor type man i always knew to barely able to get around his own house, it just sucks so much. So yeah im sticking here for awhile.



Baymule said:


> @misfitmorgan I am so sorry for your Dad and his health problems. My older brother was a Marine in Viet Nam. He came home a changed man. He died several years ago from Shy-Drager disease. You can't tell me that it wasn't caused by exposure to Agent Orange. He slowly lost all muscle control until he could only communicate by raising his eyebrow. And finally, even that was gone.
> 
> http://brainfoundation.org.au/disorders/shy-drager-syndrome
> 
> ...



The VA is a joke at least here it is. For the first two years my dad was having symptoms they told him it was because he was an alcoholic, thats why he was having balance problems. Does my dad drink....yes....is he a fall down drunk...no. My dad has always liked beer and after my Stepmom died he did get a bit heavy handed with it for awhile but that was not the problem and those jerks knew it. This is the same VA hospital that my grandpa went to for  most of his life, after going in for 2yrs complaining about his arm hurting they finally figured out he had bone cancer, he died 3 weeks later. Nope i dont like the VA.

So how goes the house hunting @Alexz7272 ?


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## Baymule (Nov 15, 2016)

@Alexz7272 I just heard on the TV news about a interest spike in mortgage lending. Of course, being the news, they had to blow it up to make it sound scary. The interest "spike" turned out to be .04%. They went on to say that on a $200,000 mortgage it meant $56 more per month.

If interest rates start trending up, it might be harder to sell your property and the value could go down from what it's worth right now. Right now, anybody with a pulse qualifies for a loan. A year from now, it could be a totally different story. If you aren't ready to move now, but know that's what ya'll are going to do, then SELL now and rent a place while you find what you want in Texas. Things could get real squirrelly on selling and financing in a year's time. With a wad of cash in your bank account, you could pick and choose what you want.


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## Alexz7272 (Nov 17, 2016)

Update: Aaron's mother is going on a witch hunt against me, I don't think we'll be moving anytime soon. 
On that note, she keeps getting caught in lies and its hilarious.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 17, 2016)

Uh oh... Is this related to the potential move? My MIL and SIL's HATE me.  Which makes my husband and myself want to move. Far far away from them!


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## NH homesteader (Nov 17, 2016)

@Baymule that is not the case here. Banks are not giving many loans,  houses aren't selling and people are being told at their closings that financing fell through. funny how different markets are.


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## Latestarter (Nov 17, 2016)

Could it be the banks (who just happen to "own" the world by the way, through the federal reserve <and all other central banks> - a privately owned company that sells us <and all other countries with central banks> all our money) have some idea as to what's coming? Ohhhh or maybe going a bit further down the rabbit hole..... are actively planning it? Yes, I'm a conspiracy theorist. Just a stray thought. Sooooooooooo glad I sold and bought when I did. Now off my political rant...

I'm assuming that Aaron's mom is local to you and doesn't want you "stealing away" her son. I'd also assume she's scared of you and doesn't think you are "good enough" for her precious boy child...   Eventually the hilarity of it all will fade (see NH's post above).   Hope you can get it "fixed" before it reaches that point.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 17, 2016)

My situation is very complicated and no,  not particularly funny.  Mine is more that they would like to control our lives and they hoped I would make hubby want to be more like what they wanted him to be. Instead, every time they try to start issues, he gets madder at them and he and I are more determined to do what we want. Away from them! And BTW he's fine the way  he is!


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## Baymule (Nov 17, 2016)

I have an EX-MIL that was and still is a mean, hateful ol' blankety-blank. She did her best to make my life a living Hell. Spiteful, rude, just plain mean. Why anybody wants to be like that is beyond me. She reminds me of a bucket full of rattlesnakes that somebody stirred up with a stick.

@Alexz7272 if you are headed down the trail of "not good enough for her precious baby boy" then get him away from there. If you stay in her area, she will do her best to drive you two apart. If you actually marry her perfect son, she will really hate you and double up on her attacks. My EX-MIL attacked me through my children. Evil witch.

@NH homesteader I feel for you. It sure makes for an uncomfortable feeling at family get togethers. The good news is, your husband resents their meddling as much as you do. Move. Move away from them and their poison attitudes. There is no reason to subject your family to such ugly attitudes.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 18, 2016)

Yep i agree, someone acting like that would only make me more determined to move.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 18, 2016)

Well not really because we don't go to them anymore. We see his parents and one sister and don't speak to his other sister.  But no big events.  His mom is nice when he's around and so mean to me when he isn't. His dad and step mother are fine. 

Wow EX-MIL involved the kids?? Mine makes snide comments to my daughter about how we don't see each other enough.  My husband will not let her get away with anything more direct when she gets older.  I am lucky,  yes.


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## Bossroo (Nov 18, 2016)

On the other side of the coin - my wife is an only child . Her mother was my  MOTHER IN LAW and her dad was my  FATHER IN LAW .  My parents accepted my wife and she was   their  DAUGHTER.   All of our parents are now gone.   We  were brought up to accept the choice of their childrens' spouses so we in turn have accepted our childrens' spouses .  Life is GOOD !


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## NH homesteader (Nov 18, 2016)

And that's the way it is with my parents. Lovely isn't it?


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jul 11, 2018)

OK, @Alexz7272, I know this is an old thread, but I am relatively new to BYH and just now ran across this thread.  What happened to you and your boyfriend?

Senile Texas Aggie


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