# THINGS WE DON'T TALK ABOUT MUCH



## poorboys (Mar 23, 2011)

IVE HAD ALL KIDS, IN STALLS SINCE BIRTH, SEPARTED BY AGE, I HAVE BEEN SELLING MOST KIDS AS SOON AS THEY ARE BORN, TO GET TO THE PROBLEM, I RECENTLY SOLD A BUCK TO A LADY WHO NOW WANTS TO BRING IT BACK SAYING IT HAS SOREMOUTH. OK I KNOW SORE MOUTH IS A VIRAL INFENTION, I USE GRETIAN VIOLET ON MY DOES, AND HAVEN'T HAD IT FOR OVER 2 YEARS, BUT THIS KID HASE'NT EVEN BEEN OUTSIDE, THE ONE PARTICURLY BUCK, HIS MOTHER NEVER HAD IT, SHE WAS'NT HERE WHEN I HAD THE BREAKOUT, IT'S LIKE PINK-EYE, CL OR ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT JUST HAPPEN. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THIS LITTLE BUCK WOULD HAVE HAD IT, SINCE HE'S BEEN IN A CLEAN STALL, BOTTLE FED, AND NOT BEEN EXPOSED?? ALSO SHE ASK IF I WOULD BUY HER RECENTLY PURCHASED BOER BABIES, SINCE THEY WERE IN THE SAME PEN WITH THE BUCK SHE BOUGHT FROM ME. OF COURSE I SAID NO.!! SO WHAT IS THE LIKLY HOOD OF THIS BUCK HAVING SOREMOUTH FROM MY HERD?????? HE WAS BORN 3-4-11 AND HASENT LEFT THE KID STALL???? PLEASE HELP ME FIGURE THIS OUT. ALSO I JUST WENT OUT TO CHECK ALL MY BABIES AND NO-ONE HAS IT, I HAVE A BUCK WITH SCABS ON THE END OF HIS EARS, BUT THAT WAS FROM EVERYONE CHEWING ON THEM AND HE IS'NT IN THE SAME PEN AND NEVER HAS BEEN.


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## currycomb (Mar 23, 2011)

i would research the incubation time for soremouth, then see if the time table fits with when she got the baby. if you do not have any cases of soremouth on your farm, anywhere, i doubt the kid got it at your farm. might need to go visit her farm and see how many of hers have it. we got one quick hit with a case of soremouth, never been repeated.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 23, 2011)

I think very likely, but regardless, to keep a good name for yourself, I would just be willing to buy back the goat you sold to her, and then put him in an isolation pen.  
I would probably sell the goat you buy back at the stock yards, after he cleans up, There are different strains of Sore mouth and some of them can be very nasty. 

If she insists on you buying the other onse, I would just tell her you are sorry but you aren't willing to do that. 

It would probably be pointless to go into detail with her, how you don't feel it is your responsibility to buy back everything when she didn't isolate them seperatly. Animals coming from different farms should be kept seperate, or something like this could happen. Sore mouth is the first thing to break in a stressed out animal that is a carrier. 


But you are right to think it is very common, that is why  everyone reading this should head the WARNING and isolate all new animals for atleast 60 days, in an area that can be cleaned up and disenfected, always, and no exceptions.


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## poorboys (Mar 23, 2011)

I HAV'NT HAD IT SINCE 2 YEARS AGO, THEY TOLD ME TO USE GREATION VIOLET ON IT AND IT KILLS THE BATERIA IN THE SORE SO WHEN THE SCAB FALLS OFF IT'S DEAD. NONE OF MY GOATS HAVE IT. I REFUND HER MONEY AND ISOLATE THIS PRETTY LITTLE BUCK, IT'S JUST STRESSFUL ESPICALLY WHEN SHE TRIED TO PAWN OFF THE OTHER BOERS THAT SHE HAD BOUGHT BEFORE SHE BOUGHT MY LITTLE BUCK.


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## helmstead (Mar 23, 2011)

The virus lives in the scabs and is very hardy, so even if you had it 2 years ago, the virus could still be in your soil, and you could easily have tracked it on  your shoes into the kid pen.

There is no treatment for sore mouth - whomever advocated the use of that natural product probably intended for it to ward of the secondary bacterial infection that sore mouth causes.


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## poorboys (Mar 23, 2011)

I CAN'T FIND ANY INFO ON HOW LONG A GOAT BECOMES INFECTED BEFORE IT STARTS SHOWING, ALL THEY SAY IS IT STARTS FROM A BLISTER, AND HE DOES HAVE A BLISTER, BUT I SURE DID'NT SEE IT WHEN HE LEFT. I DID BUY THE BUCK BACK AND HE IS IN ISOLATION, LOOK AT ALL MY KIDS AND DON'T SEE ANYTHING, I THINK I WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE BLISTERS ON THEIR MOUTHS BY NOW IF IT CAME FROM ME. OH WELL, THEY ARE GONING TO SELL THOSE POOR BOERS, TO SOME UNEXPECTED PERSON. I KNOW THEY HAD BOUGHT THEM FROM A COMMERICAL GOAT FARM A WEEK PRIO TO BUYING MY KID. YES THIS IS GOOD INFO FOR NEW GOAT OWNERS TO CHECK AND KNOW ABOUT. THANKS


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## cmjust0 (Mar 23, 2011)

Ok, so here's my take-away from all that:



> I RECENTLY SOLD A BUCK TO A LADY WHO NOW WANTS TO BRING IT BACK SAYING IT HAS SOREMOUTH.
> ...
> ALSO SHE ASK IF I WOULD BUY HER RECENTLY PURCHASED BOER BABIES, SINCE THEY WERE IN THE SAME PEN WITH THE BUCK SHE BOUGHT FROM ME.


Mmmkay, there's where the soremouth came from -- her 'recently purchased boer babies'..  

Would I take this kid back?  Hell no.  I'd tell her exactly where she got the soremouth from (aka, NOT ME), and I'd tell her to practice better biosecurity than throwing a bunch of recently purchased babies all in together.  

I'd try to be nice about it for all of 90 seconds or so, though..


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## cmjust0 (Mar 23, 2011)

poorboys said:
			
		

> I CAN'T FIND ANY INFO ON HOW LONG A GOAT BECOMES INFECTED BEFORE IT STARTS SHOWING


It's pretty much immediate..  There's no 'incubation' to speak of..  I got hold of a few old scrub does once that brought soremouth to my place..  One of the does was recently weaned of kids, and her kids must have had it..  I later discovered that she had a teeny, tiny little scab of it on the back of her udder.

Within a matter of a couple days of being in with the does, my otherwise pristine buck was totally crusted over with soremouth.

:/

Seriously wouldn't doubt your buyer's already called the boer breeder from whom she bought the other babies -- and been laughed at -- so now she's gonna try it on you.  

Bottom line:  

1) You have no reason to believe this came from your herd.  
2) You *do* have reason to at least *suspect* that it came from the other babies she pitched yours in with, if only because the buck you sold almost certainly didn't have it *until* it went in with the others..  
3) She is responsible for having practiced poor biosecurity, and -- at the end of the day -- it's the poor biosecurity that got *all* her babies infected.

Therefore -- this is on her.  Sorry bout her luck.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 23, 2011)

I, am pretty sure, it is only a 2 or 3 day gestation period before the sores break.  
we had show sheep break with it. Thank god we had them in isolation off our pasture and barn.  Haven't been that lucky with all the diseased, but so far good luck with that one.


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## poorboys (Mar 23, 2011)

HE WAS GONE 3 DAYS, AS FOR MINE THAT WAS IN THE SAME PEN WITH HIM BEFORE HE LEFT, TONIGHT WHILE I WAS BOTTLE FEEDING THEM I DEFILED!!!!! THE POOR THINGS LOOKING AT EVERY INCH TO SEE IF I COULD FIND ANYTHING (NOPE) THEY ALSO SAID HE COULD'NT EAT, THE THING ATE LIKE A HOG, I HAVE FED HIM TWICE SINCE HE'S BEEN HOME AND HE HAS DRANK OVER 40 0Z, POOR THING, MY DH WAS P..... HE WORKS NIGHTS AND THIS ALL HAPPENED SO FAST, HE WAS ASLEEP AND WHEN I TOLD HIM, YEP YOU CAN ONLY GUESS!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL TAKE CARE OF HIM AND SELL LATER AT AUCTION BUT I JUST HATED THE WHOLE DARN THING. SHE PUT ON AN AD FREE BOER GOATS, EXPOSED TO SOREMOUTH, SHE DID'NT WANT HER PASTURE INFECTED. THERE ARE JUST THINGS THAT COME WITH LIVESTOCK SOMETIMES YOU FEEL LIKE IT'S YOUR FAULT AND YOU KNOW THAT REALLY THERE'S NO WAY OF PREVENTING ALOT OF IT. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP AND INPUT. HOPE DH COMES HOME IN THE MORNING SOMEWHAT HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  HE ALSO COME HOME WITH THE POOPS, I TOLD HER TO KEEP HIM ON COW MILK SINCE SHE DID'NT HAVE NO GOATS MILK, BUT SHE SAID THEY USE THE POWERED STUFF, SO I HAVE TO CLEAN UP HE'S POOPS TOO.  I NEED A STIFF ONE AND I DON'T DRINK!!!


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## Roll farms (Mar 23, 2011)

Yeah, I'm bettin' he got it from HER goats...I tromped all over your place *and* got a kid from you and all mine, including her, are fine.

Some people just make you want to....do things I can't mention on a family forum.


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## BlackSheepOrganics (Mar 23, 2011)

I too would bet that cmjust is right on this one.

We have had some folks pull stunts like that - demanding refunds and/or more for animals they got from us and claim they were sickly.  I put their names down on a list we keep and their address and phone number.  This has kept us from selling animals to others who lived at that address or had that same number pop up on caller ID.  Just a thought you might want to consider.

We had a guy buy a set of turkeys from us and then claim they all died the next day and he wanted a refund.  We told him to bring us the dead bodies and we certainly would.  He then brought one who was slightly torn up and made us wonder.  My husband forced the issue and said we would not refund except for the bodies we received.  He then tried to say he got rid of them.  His son piped up that their dog had torn them to shreds so they had to go burn them with his Grandpa's brush pile.

2 summers later we had his wife try to buy from us, using a different last name.  That didn't go very far when we compared the phone number, called and asked for him and he came to the phone.  

Sorry this happened to you and hope the little fella will be okay.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 24, 2011)

poorboys said:
			
		

> HE WAS GONE 3 DAYS, AS FOR MINE THAT WAS IN THE SAME PEN WITH HIM BEFORE HE LEFT, TONIGHT WHILE I WAS BOTTLE FEEDING THEM I DEFILED!!!!! THE POOR THINGS LOOKING AT EVERY INCH TO SEE IF I COULD FIND ANYTHING (NOPE) THEY ALSO SAID HE COULD'NT EAT, THE THING ATE LIKE A HOG, I HAVE FED HIM TWICE SINCE HE'S BEEN HOME AND HE HAS DRANK OVER 40 0Z, POOR THING, MY DH WAS P..... HE WORKS NIGHTS AND THIS ALL HAPPENED SO FAST, HE WAS ASLEEP AND WHEN I TOLD HIM, YEP YOU CAN ONLY GUESS!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL TAKE CARE OF HIM AND SELL LATER AT AUCTION BUT I JUST HATED THE WHOLE DARN THING. SHE PUT ON AN AD FREE BOER GOATS, EXPOSED TO SOREMOUTH, SHE DID'NT WANT HER PASTURE INFECTED. THERE ARE JUST THINGS THAT COME WITH LIVESTOCK SOMETIMES YOU FEEL LIKE IT'S YOUR FAULT AND YOU KNOW THAT REALLY THERE'S NO WAY OF PREVENTING ALOT OF IT. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP AND INPUT. HOPE DH COMES HOME IN THE MORNING SOMEWHAT HAPPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  HE ALSO COME HOME WITH THE POOPS, I TOLD HER TO KEEP HIM ON COW MILK SINCE SHE DID'NT HAVE NO GOATS MILK, BUT SHE SAID THEY USE THE POWERED STUFF, SO I HAVE TO CLEAN UP HE'S POOPS TOO.  I NEED A STIFF ONE AND I DON'T DRINK!!!


I will have a drink for you, and I don't drink either.


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## jodief100 (Mar 24, 2011)

Free Boer goats because of soremouth?  Where is she? - I can handle soremouth....hehehehehe

I think you did the right thing.  It is highly probably she was at fault but some battles are not worth fighting.  Your reputation is intact and she is on your blackball list.  

Game Over


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 24, 2011)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> Free Boer goats because of soremouth?  Where is she? - I can handle soremouth....hehehehehe
> 
> I think you did the right thing.  It is highly probably she was at fault but some battles are not worth fighting.  Your reputation is intact and she is on your blackball list.
> 
> Game Over


I would come and get them, put them in isolation, feed them out until they are 70lbs and sell them for meat. They would bring around 110 to 120 bucks each.  Don't know why you would just give them away?


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## Roll farms (Mar 24, 2011)

IMHO, she's giving them away to try and make Poorboys feel even more guilty...which she SHOULDN'T.... :/
But now the buyer can be all, "Now I've lost money on the boer kids I took in because of YOU."

Passive-Aggressive BS at it's finest....grrrrrr.

I'm sorry you're being put through this, Patty....she sucks.  
DO NOT feel bad.


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## jodief100 (Mar 24, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> I would come and get them, put them in isolation, feed them out until they are 70lbs and sell them for meat. They would bring around 110 to 120 bucks each.  Don't know why you would just give them away?


That is what I was thinking.  Only I can get around $2.00-$2.25/lb at my auction right now.     

Grown them out to 70 lbs, get about $140-$150.  I can deal with a little soremouth for that deal.

poorboys- the guilt trip should not work because you have nothing to feel guilty of.  You did more than you techenically were respoible for as it is.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 24, 2011)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't checked prices lately, I just looked them up, and what I realized is I am selling my goats tooo cheap, that stinks.   Here are the New holland prices from last monday, this is the major sale for the east coast.


Slaughter Kids: Selection 1  40-60 lbs 122.00-148.00; 60-80 lbs 
138.00-160.00; 80-90 lbs 147.00-162.00, 90-100 lbs 170.00-182.00; 100-110 
lbs 172.00-186.00. Selection 2  40-60 lbs 100.00-118.00; 60-80 lbs 
108.00-126.00; 80-90 lbs 126.00-130.00. Selection 3  40-60 lbs 59.00-
91.00; 60-80 lbs 84.00-102.00.


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## mossyStone (Mar 24, 2011)

It's people like her, that make it hard on honest folks selling goats!

Every once in a while a bad apple shows up... I am sorry she found you .....


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## poorboys (Mar 24, 2011)

thanks everyone, well my babies in the pen are all fine, i think i would have seen a blister by now. yeah she was trying to get me to buy them boer's and then she gave them away for free!!! if I would have had a nice isolated place to put them I would of had my son go get them for me.!!! and then I would have sold them when they got well.!! yeah I think she was just trying to get out of her own mess. he is eating fine, i put some antioiment on it, so it would'nt be so sore, and gave him a vit b shot, loved on him a little bit and put him back in his little pen, dh feels sorry for him cause his all by himself looking across the the way to the other babies  she's on my naughty list


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Mar 25, 2011)

G'day Poorboys,Sorry I'ma bit late on this one..If Soremounth is what we call "Scabby Mouth",you can try  1part Copper Sulphate to 10parts Apple Cider Vinegar,put the mix in a wide mouthed jar and push thee kids muzzle in it completely(it does not matter if it swallower's a bit) twice a day for a few days,you will see the "scabs "dry up and fall off.

 Worth a try,hope its of some value to you ,regards ...........T.O.R.........


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## poorboys (Mar 29, 2011)

well, it's been almost a week since she brought my buck home, and i still have no outbreaks in my stalls, and my kids, or does. I really got taken by this gal., anyway the little buck is okay, eating, but I know his lonely cause he is by himself.  we will wait it out, (bad thing is out of the 3 bucks i had left, he was the best looking,) would have made a good sire.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 29, 2011)

poorboys said:
			
		

> bad thing is out of the 3 bucks i had left, he was the best looking, would have made a good sire.


Why can't he still?  There will be some people out there who will be wary of a buck that's had soremouth, and those people will be somewhere between 'old timer' and 'total noob' in terms of goat knowledge..  

The total noob wouldn't know any better than to buy one in with who knows what, and the old timer would know he's safe as long as it's not an active case and he can be cleaned up to make sure he's not carrying any scabs or anything..

Those in the middle tend to run for the hills at the very first mention of any disease whatsoever..


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## BlackSheepOrganics (Mar 29, 2011)

I agree with Mr. GPS.  If you're honest and tell whomever is buying him, and even educate them on it, then you would both win and he gets a new home doing what little boy goats like to do best.

You might consider doing some research, printing it up and sending it with them so they know it is not just you saying something to excuse it.  AND, they probably wouldn't even know if you didn't say something so that should help demonstrate how honest you are being with them.

I hope you find him the perfect home!


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