# breeding polled goats?



## Sydney (Nov 19, 2010)

Im curious why you will only get 50% healthy offspring if you breed two polled goats but polled sheep can be bred together with no problems?


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## ksalvagno (Nov 19, 2010)

It isn't health problems, it is the potential for female offspring to be hermaphrodites. But there are people out there breeding polled to polled with no problems.


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## freemotion (Nov 19, 2010)

Interesting.  I can't wait to see what I get from my one polled goat.  Hoping for polled anything....which will be kept, maybe.  Will there be a chance of it being a hermaphrodite if the buck was horned?  Will I be able to tell externally?


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## chandasue (Nov 19, 2010)

I've read there shouldn't be any hermaphrodites born if one of the breeding pair is horned, that only can happen when breeding polled to polled.


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## txcarl1258 (Nov 19, 2010)

Wow never heard of that.  Learned something today.  I thought that all nubians were polled.  I am guess that isn't correct?


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## whetzelmomma (Nov 20, 2010)

I'm really excited to try breeding to a polled buck that my breeder is getting!! All of my does are disbudded, and we have a 50/50 chance of polled babies!! Can't WAIT!! lol


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## helmstead (Nov 20, 2010)

No, all Nubians are not polled.  Most are horned.  

With polled goats, if you breed polled to polled, you have a ONE in FOUR chance of a hermaphrodite offspring.  So saying that people are breeding polled to polled with no problems is highly unlikely - more likely is they don't realize they're selling hermaphrodite babies or they cull the hermaphrodites and cover the evidence.

As far as my research can find - breeding polled to horned is safe.  I do have one customer who is reporting difficulty settling her polled doe from one of these breedings - but I think they're missing her cycle rather than there being a genetic issue with her fertility.  Her dam was very difficult to read when she was in heat, too.

A hermaphrodite doe should have an underdeveloped vulva...and they often act bucky and grow the buck hair around their neck and shoulders.  I've seen one in doe like this...I can dig up a picture...

Gypsy Moon Nigerians has a photo of a hermaphrodite vulva posted on their website.


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## Fancy7673 (Nov 20, 2010)

I have horned & polled nigerians.  It seems like we get more horned kids than polled no matter how you cross them.  Either that or I just haven't found the right cross.  I have only crossed polled on polled 1 time and was blessed to have no problems.  I discontinued this cross as I came across more information discouraging this practice.


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## jodief100 (Nov 22, 2010)

So is the polled gene is dominant?  If breeding polled to polled you have a 25% chance of a sterile baby, that would indicate the polled gene is dominant and receiving two copies of the polled gene leaves the offspring sterile.  If that is true, than all fertile polled goats are heterozygous polled (One polled gene, one horned gene: PH), all non fertile polled goats are homozygous polled (2 polled genes:  PP)and all horned goats are homozygous horned (2 horned genes:  HH).  The Punnet square than says this:
Polled to polled
	P	H
P	PP	PH
H	PH	HH
25% chance of a hermaphrodite, 50% chance of polled and 25% chance of horned.
Polled to horned
	H	H
P	PH	PH
H	HH	HH
50% chance of polled and 50% chance of horned.

Is this correct?


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## patandchickens (Nov 22, 2010)

To the o.p. -- It is just different in sheep. (For one thing in sheep there is also a version that causes only males to be horned, females to be polled). Here is some info on the polled gene in Shetland sheep: http://www.shetlandsheepinfo.com/CONFORMATION/polled.htm I do not know how different it is in other sheep breeds)

Basically, different critter, somewhat different genetics.

Supposedly water buffalos are like goats, where individuals with two copies of the polled allele tend to be hermaphrodites. 


Pat


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## Hollywood Goats (Nov 22, 2010)

the buck that my horned goat was bred to has a polled gene (1 of his 4 kids is polled), I wonder is her kids will be polled.


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## jodief100 (Nov 22, 2010)

Hollywood Goats said:
			
		

> the buck that my horned goat was bred to has a polled gene (1 of his 4 kids is polled), I wonder is her kids will be polled.


I did a little research today and from what I read my earlier speculation was correct:  the polled gene is the dominant.  

Given that, a horned goat cannot carry the polled gene.  So if one of his kids was polled either he or the doe he was bred to must be polled.  
Unless it is a very unusual case of random mutation or the polling was mechanical as opposed to genetic (i.e.:  physical injury) 

It could be what I read today is wrong. But the math suggests it is not.  

If the buck is polled, the Punnet squares in my earlier post illustrate the chances of what you could get.


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## rebelINny (Nov 24, 2010)

We bought a set of quads from a large scale dairy goat farm a while back. They were bottle fed our own goat milk. They all died at weaning age. They were all polled. Not sure if that had anything to do with it. However, all the kids we vaccinated for CD&T this past spring died a few weeks later while all the ones we didn't are alive and healthy. Something wrong with the vaccine?


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## freemotion (Nov 24, 2010)

rebelINny said:
			
		

> We bought a set of quads from a large scale dairy goat farm a while back. They were bottle fed our own goat milk. They all died at weaning age. They were all polled. Not sure if that had anything to do with it. However, all the kids we vaccinated for CD&T this past spring died a few weeks later while all the ones we didn't are alive and healthy. Something wrong with the vaccine?


Holy Crap, that needs to be reported to the manufacturer.  Did the polled goats also get this vaccine?


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## rebelINny (Nov 24, 2010)

Yes the polled goats did get this vaccine. I did report it today actually after I put that post up. It was an email though so we will see.


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## helmstead (Nov 24, 2010)

There has been a lot of talk at the shows this year about a bad batch of CD&T out there...hearsay is several breeders lost kids and adults alike after vaccinating.  What hearsay DIDN'T lend me was the manufacturer of the darn vaccine...which would have been nice to know.

Lucky me, I had stocked up on late 2009 lots of CD&T and didn't have to buy any yet this year.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Nov 24, 2010)

I hope they're able to track down lot numbers...


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## rebelINny (Nov 24, 2010)

Well if they got it from either from hoegger goat supply or jeffers livestock then it is Colorado Serum Company and I called them and filed a report. The serial number on mine is 355. Basically I am the only one that has reported on this batch and because I didn't do a necropsy and can't prove that it was the vaccine then I am out of luck


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## Jupiter (Nov 26, 2010)

rebelINny said:
			
		

> Well if they got it from either from hoegger goat supply or jeffers livestock then it is Colorado Serum Company and I called them and filed a report. The serial number on mine is 355. Basically I am the only one that has reported on this batch and because I didn't do a necropsy and can't prove that it was the vaccine then I am out of luck


I had a problem right after vaccinating my goat too. She'd never been vaccinated before. Right afterwards, her health really deteriorated, but she pulled through. Now I wonder if it was the vacc or just something else.

I'm sorry to hear that the company won't look into it further.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Nov 27, 2010)

Personally...I would not breed a polled goat.  I would not want that gene in my pool...but that just how I feel.   Personal opinion.  I dont think its worth the risk.  I look for better lines in milk production and overall health.

People do it..I just would'nt.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Nov 27, 2010)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> Personally...I would not breed a polled goat.  I would not want that gene in my pool...but that just how I feel.   Personal opinion.  I dont think its worth the risk.  I look for better lines in milk production and overall health.
> 
> People do it..I just would'nt.


Wouldn't breed a polled to a polled or wouldn't use a polled goat in your breeding program at all?  If it's the latter I'd be curious to know why.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Nov 27, 2010)

Personal opinion I formulated after seeing a breeder breeding polled goats only.  Was'nt a pretty picture and had alot of disasters. 

I understand that a polled and a horned are perfectly safe to breed.  And I don't think of it as a genetic problem, just a condition in breedng that should be watched. If you keep good breeding records and are a responsible breeder then there should be no issues.

Like I said personal preference... I look for milking production and health.  And a little freaked out after that Frankenstien breeder I meet long ago...  So I just never wanted that gene around.  Thats all.  Nothing more..personal opinion.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Nov 27, 2010)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> .  And a little freaked out after that Frankenstien breeder I meet long ago...


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## StudMuffinNigis (Jan 12, 2011)

I know this is an old thread, but I'm buying twins from a breeder and and the buck is polled and dam is horned, the kids came out (looking) like they are both polled. Birthed have the swirly hair where the horns grow or have anything hard on their head and are a week old. I know it's still young to tell but on most kids and with an experienced breeder you can tell that young. Is this possible? I thought polledxpolled is 50% polled and 50% horned? Thanks


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## helmstead (Jan 12, 2011)

Percentages are "of the time" not "of the kidding"...so the polled buck may throw XX% of polled offspring, but it's not going to be split perfectly in each kidding.  I bought three does bred to a polled buck in 2009, each doe horned, and all of the kids were polled.  Lucked out ...but not ALL of that buck's kids are polled.


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## StudMuffinNigis (Jan 12, 2011)

Thank you again Kate! So basically it is possible and these kids won't have any problems like being hermaphrodites since mom was horned? Got nervous since both were polled and that doesn't equal the 50% deal, but I see, it's of the time.... Nice


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