# Need advice on breeding



## GoatRancher11 (Jun 20, 2012)

Been a while guys, I'm back!  Just picked out my buck today but will not bring him to the farm until late August.  I would like for the doelings I purchased in 2011 to be well nutritioned with their millet, sorghum sudangrass and cow peas by the time he comes to the farm.  They are in great shape and should get some great eating this Summer as they already have.  I have 21 total.  16 doelings and 5 Nannies originally whom I did not breed intentionally last year b/c I wanted all of them on the same cycle.  My doelings have grown out now, are looking great and are all in the 12-14 month old range, a few are a little bit older than that.  

One thing I really debated was getting an older, seasoned buck but I've instead opted for a buck that will be 6 months old when he gets to my farm in August.  His genetics are good and I figured, long term, better to go with a younger guy.  He's 4 months old now and yes, I know that sounds young BUT he is a beauty and is a stud for his age.  He actually had his nose in the air today and he and his twin brother were harassing a young doeling.  Her mother took care of that though, it was funny.  He will be in the buck pen soon.

Two questions:

1.  Being that he'll be only 6 months old when I get him to the farm, are the older does more likely to push him away or pick on him b/c he is younger?  I'm not worried about him being able to reach them, he is sort of big for his age now; I think he will be able to reach any goat I have by the time he gets here (although it would be great if did hold off a while).

2.  I have a 13 year old wether goat I sort of inherited by mistake (my other 21 are purebred Kikos) but he's harmless.  He does think he is boss out there on the farm although he is neutered.  Do you think he may pose a problem if the younger buck starts breeding the does?


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## ksalvagno (Jun 21, 2012)

The only way to find out about the wether is to put the little guy in and see what happens. You may have to pull the wether while breeding is going on. I'm assuming you are just putting the male in with the females and letting nature take its course. The other option would be to watch for females in heat and hand/pen breed. I would think if females are in heat, there would be no problem with the little guy but if they aren't in heat, the older females may not appreciate a male in there. Once again, you will just have to try it and see what happens.


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## GoatRancher11 (Jun 21, 2012)

Good advice.  You nailed it.  That is exactly what I was thinking, put them in there and let nature takes it course.  Appears that he may be able to grow up with the herd and just run with them for a while.  If I put him in there at 4 months old, I'm pretty sure they will push him around.  In a perfect world, he would be about 7-8 months old and I could put him in there in about late Sept/Oct BUT it is never a perfect world!  I think as he grows a little more, he'll be somewhat more respected when he gets out there.  If that makes any sense at all...............

I may just completely take the wether out and fence him off totally.  In a short time, the young buck will dwarf him but right now he is very young.  A 2-3 yr old 100% NZ Kiko buck is powerful but a 6 month old has a long way to go in stature.  As far as the animal behavior of one bullying the other, I don't want my 6 month breeder buck injured by a non producing wether.  I would be an unhappy camper as many others would as well!  Not a risk I want to take.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 21, 2012)

my biggest concern for you would be if your 6 month old buck is going to have the stamina to breed 21 does. I would train him to come out of the field and feed him extra every day. I think you are border line with his age. He may do a good job, but then again, you may have a really wide spread of kidding dates, or several does being missed all together. 

Also a couple years ago we brought a 6 month old, almost 7 months home and he wouldn't go anywhere near the 5 does we put with him. He didn't breed a single one of htem, even though they were in raging heat. We had to pull him out and put them with another buck and they ended up kidding later than the rest of the herd.


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## SheepGirl (Jun 21, 2012)

I would get a marking harness and marking crayons for your buck so you can see who he is breeding and when so you know when their due date is. Switching colors every heat cycle (with sheep, it's about every 17 days, don't know how long it is for goats) will let you know if he's rebreeding anybody and can clue you in if he is sterile (esp if he is remarking every doe) or if the doe isn't fertile. That will save you from heartache next year because if he does turn out to be sterile, you won't have to deal with 21 open does...instead you can find a replacement buck real quick to solve the issue.


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## marlowmanor (Jun 21, 2012)

What part of NC are you in? I'm figuring the coast since you've mentioned using Coastal Hay and having sandy soil in previus posts.

Looks like you are getting good advice so far. I can't add anything personally since we haven't done any breeding yet ourselves. I can add what my dad is doing with his herd right now though (pygmies and NDs). Right now he has his buck in with a small herd of does and the other does are in a maternity lot because they just had kids within the past month. He can have kids almost year round this way and the buck (who is young) doesn't get overwhelmed. Maybe you could put the buck with a few of the does at a time then switch them out. It may mean you have a longer kidding season but it could be easier on the buck too.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 21, 2012)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> I would get a marking harness and marking crayons for your buck so you can see who he is breeding and when so you know when their due date is. Switching colors every heat cycle (with sheep, it's about every 17 days, don't know how long it is for goats) will let you know if he's rebreeding anybody and can clue you in if he is sterile (esp if he is remarking every doe) or if the doe isn't fertile. That will save you from heartache next year because if he does turn out to be sterile, you won't have to deal with 21 open does...instead you can find a replacement buck real quick to solve the issue.


Thanks for reminding me that I was planning borrowing a couple breeding harnasses from a friend who raises sheep.  Our frined wanted us to try them this year. That is a really good suggestion.


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## GoatRancher11 (Jun 25, 2012)

Thank you for the advice guys.  Very good stuff.  Hadn't thought about the crayons/coloring.  That is a heck of an idea.  How in the world do I go about getting the right stuff for this and where do I get it?

I've done a long term lease on a farm in the southeastern tip of Wake County in NC to start with.  The goal (maybe even this Fall or Winter) is to get down to our family farm in Sampson County, NC (very sandy) where we have cows.  It is fenced for cows right now and cows and goats (especially kikos) do well together in complimenting one another.  The cows really knock down the parasites (mainly barber pole) on pasture for goats.  We also have a lot of woods though.  Where I'm at right now is a lot of pasture but some woods as well.  About to turn 'em loose on 3 acres of millett in about 2 weeks.  Hoping we get this rain this afternoon as well.  Just planted 4 acres of sorghum sudangrass and iron and clay cowpeas.  Trying to get their bodies in as good of condition as possible for Fall breeding.

A little concerned about the buck being young but not overly concerned.  Definitely my first go round though so I need all the advice I can get!  It would be much better if I could get him in late September and he was a month older.  I would feel a little better then but it is what it is. 

Goats cycle every 21 days so a little longer than sheep.

Where is Linwood, NC?  Just curious.

Also, if you guys know where I can buy some cheap welded wire 4 x 4 or so, let me know.  I need a lot of it.  Part of the reason for not starting on our farm originally was the fence was so expensive.  Our farm is fenced for cows BUT I need 11,000 feet of welded wire to go around 71 acres currently.  Not sure if you can buy in bulk anywhere or not?  I already have the T posts, some 12.5 gauge wire and barbed wire on the fence for cows.  Had a few folks tell me to just run a few 12.5 gauge wires on the T posts but I'm not sure that will work long term.  We all know goats are pretty inquisitive.  Probably need that welded wire on those T-Posts.


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## marlowmanor (Jun 25, 2012)

GoatRancher11 said:
			
		

> Thank you for the advice guys.  Very good stuff.  Hadn't thought about the crayons/coloring.  That is a heck of an idea.  How in the world do I go about getting the right stuff for this and where do I get it?
> 
> I've done a long term lease on a farm in the southeastern tip of Wake County in NC to start with.  The goal (maybe even this Fall or Winter) is to get down to our family farm in Sampson County, NC (very sandy) where we have cows.  It is fenced for cows right now and cows and goats (especially kikos) do well together in complimenting one another.  The cows really knock down the parasites (mainly barber pole) on pasture for goats.  We also have a lot of woods though.  Where I'm at right now is a lot of pasture but some woods as well.  About to turn 'em loose on 3 acres of millett in about 2 weeks.  Hoping we get this rain this afternoon as well.  Just planted 4 acres of sorghum sudangrass and iron and clay cowpeas.  Trying to get their bodies in as good of condition as possible for Fall breeding.
> 
> ...


Linwood is basically between Salisbury and Lexington. We are at the edge of Davidson county right near the Rowan county line.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 25, 2012)

I get a lot of different catalogs that have marking harnesses... Caprine, Hoeggers, ValleyVet, Jeffers I think all have them but I do not know for how much (online shopping time!   )


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## SheepGirl (Jun 25, 2012)

Marking harnesses run probably around $15-$30 and the different crayons (you want at least 2 different colors) probably about $3-$5 a piece. Premier 1, Sheepman Supply, and the other suppliers mentioned by Pearce Pastures also carry them.


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