# A wool sheep should never be judged as a market lamb!



## TheSheepGirl (Mar 11, 2012)

I just hate showing my Wool Ewes at both county and state fair with all those Meat judges! They just don't know what they are talking about when it comes to judging wool sheep. at the last fair I attended each and every animal entered in the wool class got a red for lacking in meat producing qualities. He even told me that my "miniature" sheep was too small! Duh, cause she's a miniature!

Most of them judge a wool lamb the same way they judge a market or club lamb. They measure the loin, feel for good flesh on the legs and hind quarters, and them give out reds when the wool sheep is just too small and has no meat on it.

Instead they should remember that a wool sheep is scored with a 60/40, 60 wool/40 body conformation. They need to check for good crimp, luster, and overall wool quality before even considering the body type and should never look for meat producing qualities in a sheep being shown in the wool class. They must also remember that a wool sheep is generally going to be small, fine boned, and lanky, because they are bred to put all of their energy into a good fleece and not into the production of meat. A wool sheep will not be stalky, large boned, or any of the other traits that one looks for in a meat sheep.

And yet, each and every time a meat judge judges a wool sheep, they never even mention the wool quality and complain about how small, fine boned, and lanky they are. 

Just a rant of mine and a general observation of my experiences showing sheep.


----------



## SheepGirl (Mar 11, 2012)

At our fair, we have a judge for the 4-H shows that judges all breeds, and then for the open shows, we have two judges. One judges the wool breeds and the shorn fleeces and the other judges the meat breeds.

What breed are yours?


----------



## TheSheepGirl (Mar 11, 2012)

My girl is a Miniature Katahdin/Gotland cross. She is a 50lb sheep full grown.

We can't afford to have more than one judge come to our fair. this judge was also judging goats, but refused to judge the Dairy Goats even though that was also part of his job.

The other sheep that got reds were 2 Babydoll southdowns, 3 shetlands, and a black welsh mountain. Hardly sheep to be judged for meat.

I have also been to the State fair and another Sheep show and had the same thing happen.


----------



## theawesomefowl (Mar 11, 2012)

That sounds so annoying! Ugh!  

(Miniature Katahdins? That sounds really interesting!)


----------



## TheSheepGirl (Mar 11, 2012)

It is quite annoying! It is really hard not to correct the judge! 

My main rant for this is that I didn't get to got to State Fair for sheep my final 4-H year because of this judging style. i was so angry that I actually cried! A 4-h'er shouldn't have to know more than the judge!

Miniature Kats are very cool1 They are about the size of Shetland sheep and are quite easy to handle and show.


----------



## Queen Mum (Mar 11, 2012)

Have you complained to the show officials?  It seems that this would be an appropriate way to handle the issue.  Put in a written complaint about the issue.  Mention that XYZ judge seems to be out of his league with respect to judging wool sheep and be very specific as to what your complaint is about.  DO NOT mention that he gives the sheep reds.  JUST mention that he uses the wrong criteria for judging the lambs.  Loins, flesh, hindquarters, marks them down for bone structure size, etcetera, when this should not be an issue and fails to address wool quality, etc.

Remind them that these are meat sheep issues not wool sheep issues.  Suggest that he be "retrained" as a wool sheep judge.  Ask your wool sheep friends to  write a similar letter of complaint.


----------



## SheepGirl (Mar 11, 2012)

TheSheepGirl said:
			
		

> My girl is a Miniature Katahdin/Gotland cross. She is a 50lb sheep full grown.
> 
> We can't afford to have more than one judge come to our fair. this judge was also judging goats, but refused to judge the Dairy Goats even though that was also part of his job.
> 
> ...


Well that would be annoying. Did you show them in a wool class? Or were there meat breeds in the same class as your sheep? But I agree with Queen Mum -- write a formal complaint to the fair board, or at the very least, the sheep department.

But I would've shown the Katahdin cross and the Babydolls in the meat class, personally.

I hope you get this issue resolved for next year!


----------



## TheSheepGirl (Mar 11, 2012)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> Have you complained to the show officials?  It seems that this would be an appropriate way to handle the issue.  Put in a written complaint about the issue.  Mention that XYZ judge seems to be out of his league with respect to judging wool sheep and be very specific as to what your complaint is about.  DO NOT mention that he gives the sheep reds.  JUST mention that he uses the wrong criteria for judging the lambs.  Loins, flesh, hindquarters, marks them down for bone structure size, etcetera, when this should not be an issue and fails to address wool quality, etc.
> 
> Remind them that these are meat sheep issues not wool sheep issues.  Suggest that he be "retrained" as a wool sheep judge.  Ask your wool sheep friends to  write a similar letter of complaint.


Thanks. i'll be sure to do this last time.

I did mention this to the officials for my county fair and they just excused it and said, "oh, well."


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Mar 12, 2012)

What classes are they being shown in?  What are your options?


----------



## TheSheepGirl (Mar 13, 2012)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> What classes are they being shown in?  What are your options?


At county their are breed classes for the common breeds and an All Other Wool Breed class for uncommon breeds. There is also a crossbreed white fleece class and a Natural Colored Wool Class for the crosses.

They were judged for meat in the Wool classes they were entered in. NCW classes are wool quality only classes, meaning only the fleece and not the body is judged.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Mar 14, 2012)

Well, even in wool classes body structure should be judged, since you want a good quality sheep that can produce more good quality sheep.  However, if he was measuring loin and leg and stuff, that's not quite right.  I would maybe speak with other breeders and see if you can get a group of people to complain, and maybe the fair people would listen.  Is it this way every year?  Maybe they just couldn't find a good judge and had to settle?  :/


----------



## TexasShepherdess (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree with Aggie..sometimes a round of voices and opinions ring true-er then just one..

I would be calm and factual about the whole event..I know with our local livestock show, the organizers DO work hard to put on a good show..but they need input from the exhibitors on if the judge did a good job..and the more "opnions" they get, the better.


----------



## TheSheepGirl (Mar 14, 2012)

The problem is that the sheep officials have been the same people for 20 years and feel like they know everything, so when all of us tried to talk to them they took it as a threat and simply didn't listen. Plus they have never even handled a wool sheep, so they would not have noticed the mistakes in judging them. We aproached them very calmly and liberally, but they felt they knew best and just excused us.

This judge is one of the best judges in the state for meat sheep and since our county has a small number of wool breeds compared to meat breeds, the county hired a very excellent meat judge. Every sheep in 4-H with the exception of 2 south downs was a market project lamb. Sort of sad in my opinion.

A wool breed is judged 60/40, so body does play a part in the judging, however, nearly 20 more points are awarded to wool than to body structure. When judging wool sheep you at least have to look at the wool and mention its quality, crimp, luster, strength, and all the other qualities of good wool. A wool sheep with a good fleece and a poor body nearly always topples a sheep with a poor fleece and a good body structure. 

It is always important to breed good, sound sheep regardless of the breed and purpose of the sheep. That is not what I am saying. I am simply saying that a sheep bred for wool and nothing else will not have a big, meaty, full boned body structure and shouldn't be expected to have that body type. A good wool sheep puts all of their energy into producing wool and will have very little meat on them because all the energy went into a nice big fleece and into producing a lamb.

I am also not referring to just the Fair's show and this particular judge, but the trend I've noticed in most meat judges recently.


----------

