# Introducing new herd members



## ChickenAndGoatLover (Aug 23, 2018)

We currently have a small herd of Nigerian dwarf weathers (3). We are interested in adding an 8 week old doeling but are still pretty new to goats and I’m not quite sure how or if we can.  

Our 3 wethers are NOT disbudded but the doeling is.   Will this pose any issues? Will integration be ok considering their sexes and being banded? 


All information and advice would be so appreciated.  Thank you!


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 23, 2018)

If all youngsters they should get along.  The 8 week old doeling still on bottle?    If banding done correctly then they should behave much like a doe.  Spend time to ensure nobody gets bullied.  How long ago were they banded and how old are they now?


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## ChickenAndGoatLover (Aug 23, 2018)

Donna R. Raybon said:


> If all youngsters they should get along.  The 8 week old doeling still on bottle?    If banding done correctly then they should behave much like a doe.  Spend time to ensure nobody gets bullied.  How long ago were they banded and how old are they now?


The 8 week old is just about weaned.   Two wethers were banded about a year ago and one is getting banded Sunday. He is the youngest and is about 11 weeks old.       We actually may be getting all 3 doelings from this specific litter not just the one.   Better odds of getting along or worse? 

Thanks!


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 23, 2018)

Better odds as the three new ones know each other so they will be more confident.  The two from last year have enough horn to be a threat, just keep an eye on them.   I would have a way to separate them into another pen if needed.  If the two older ones do decide to be hateful, then maybe try the doelings with the 11 week old.  Everybody will butt heads a bit until they work out pecking order.  You just do not want .anybody getting ganged up on.


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## ChickenAndGoatLover (Aug 24, 2018)

Donna R. Raybon said:


> Better odds as the three new ones know each other so they will be more confident.  The two from last year have enough horn to be a threat, just keep an eye on them.   I would have a way to separate them into another pen if needed.  If the two older ones do decide to be hateful, then maybe try the doelings with the 11 week old.  Everybody will butt heads a bit until they work out pecking order.  You just do not want .anybody getting ganged up on.


Yes, they have PLENTY of horn to be a threat.  That’s honestly my biggest concern but being a first time goat keeper I wasn’t sure if I should have more/bigger concerns with something else. We can certainly find a way to keep them separated if need be.  Will this have to be a long term thing if things don’t go well the first time? Or wait until my girls and the new wether are a bit older?   The 11 week old is not debudded either.  He is coming from the same farm as our first two wethers.  He was a tiny little thing when we first went and the runt. We were waiting for him to be weaned and banded. 

I know that being humans and being new herd members are much different but I wasn’t sure if their personalities can tell me a little in advanced? The biggest wether in size is a bit skiddish.  He has been since we got him but we decided to still get him and just work with him. He’s coming around a little bit but does have a ways to go.    The smaller wether is an absolutely delight and loves to be snuggled up on and is much like a puppy lol 

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond and help.   We are indeed getting all 3 little girls tomorrow evening so please keep your fingers crossed for us!  

I added some pictures of the girls for some cuteness!!


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 24, 2018)

CUTE!!!   I would have escape proof penning for three new girls so they do not decide to strike out for home and see how all goes.  

As new to goatkeeping do you have thermometer, B vitamins, know how to give injections, etc?  Moving and adding new herd members stresses everyone.  Giving the three new ones B for two or three days is a good idea.  When we used to show I gave B and Probios ( a probiotic gel) the day before we left and daily until we got back ( Th to Su)  It really made a difference in they kept eating and drinking like they did at home.  I always checked temp daily while showing and a few days after we got home.  This helped me catch trouble early if anyone got sick.


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## ChickenAndGoatLover (Aug 24, 2018)

Donna R. Raybon said:


> CUTE!!!   I would have escape proof penning for three new girls so they do not decide to strike out for home and see how all goes.
> 
> As new to goatkeeping do you have thermometer, B vitamins, know how to give injections, etc?  Moving and adding new herd members stresses everyone.  Giving the three new ones B for two or three days is a good idea.  When we used to show I gave B and Probios ( a probiotic gel) the day before we left and daily until we got back ( Th to Su)  It really made a difference in they kept eating and drinking like they did at home.  I always checked temp daily while showing and a few days after we got home.  This helped me catch trouble early if anyone got sick.


We have 2 acres of electric fence penning so I think they should be ok. I believe they have electric fencing at their home now so I’m hoping they are aware of what it is and what it does lol. We will make adjustments as needed if needed.   We do not have a thermometer or those vitamins but I need to order some ivermectin to have on hand for them all so I will purchase those things while I’m at it.  Do you have a specific brand thermometer or vitamins etc that you suggest? 
Thanks!!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 24, 2018)

The bucklings that are not 6 weeks past castration CAN breed your nigerian doelings. Nigerian does can cycle as young as 9 weeks. The bucks are fertile by 8 weeks. The "pipes" are still working for up to 6 weeks after banding or castration so you need to watch for that.

If your breeder has given you a good protocol than you should follow your breeders advice. If the breeder doesn't give you one than that is a different story.  
I am not an advocate for taking temp daily on a new kid or giving injections. These are the very things that can add to stress when a goat is going to a new home as well as if the new owners is not skilled in giving injections. Baby goats are far harder to give injections to than adult goats and as a breeder of Nigerian Dwarfs I would never suggest these things to our clients. Temp fluctuates too much on young kids.  

We have a strict protocol for our clients - we have never had a single goat (adukt or kid) get sick after leaving our farm to go to a new home, not a single one lost, no respiratory, no fever, no lethargy, nothing. If you have a good breeder and kids are healthy follow the breeders advice. BTW if the kid is banded and leaves same day that would be an additional stress and concern, iif being weaned at the same time then that is asking for trouble.


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## ChickenAndGoatLover (Aug 24, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> The bucklings that are not 6 weeks past castration CAN breed your nigerian doelings. Nigerian does can cycle as young as 9 weeks. The bucks are fertile by 8 weeks. The "pipes" are still working for up to 6 weeks after banding or castration so you need to watch for that.
> 
> If your breeder has given you a good protocol than you should follow your breeders advice. If the breeder doesn't give you one than that is a different story.
> I am not an advocate for taking temp daily on a new kid or giving injections. These are the very things that can add to stress when a goat is going to a new home as well as if the new owners is not skilled in giving injections. Baby goats are far harder to give injections to than adult goats and as a breeder of Nigerian Dwarfs I would never suggest these things to our clients. Temp fluctuates too much on young kids.
> ...


Wow... that was a lot of really useful information.    I will absolutely watch for that and appreciate that a lot! The kid will be banded and leave the same day.. should we maybe wait until next weekend to get him?   He is already weaned but the 3 girls are very newly weaned... are you saying if he is banded and weaned and moved to our house the same day that it’s asking for trouble? Or that just being weaned and moved in any situation is asking for trouble?


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## Southern by choice (Aug 24, 2018)

ChickenAndGoatLover said:


> banded and weaned and moved to our house the same day


Those are 3 major stress factors. Each one is very stressful to the kid but all 3 together.... IMO bad move.
These aren't meat animals going to market. Are there lots of people that do this? Yes. They end up on this forum or others trying to figure out what is wrong with their otherwise healthy goat. Much depends on the individual goat and the management of the farm where you are getting them from. 
If the kids are not on coccidia prevention (the south can have major coccida problems but  it is not just a southern thing) they can have a bloom. Taking a fecal in within 4-7 days after you get them to check for coccidia is really important. Unless your breeder has another protocol.  Probiotics are important and those are great to give.

The fact that he is weaned is great, the girls are newly weaned, that is fine... they are still weaned.  I would ask the breeder to hold him for a week after banding if possible. They may charge you a boarding fee... but better then a goat coming in stressed, sore and then what?  Are you able to tell if when he is standing off is it because he is sore from the banding? Or getting sick? Do you know what the scrotum should look like with banding? Have you been given any instructions?  

I say these things NOT to scare you or disuade you it is because some breeders that are newer may not think to tell you these things, may not know, may know etc. 
This is also something you should have knowledge of especially since you will have wethers. IMO it is one of the best resources on urinary calculi. We give this link to all our clients that buy bucks, oe wethers. 
http://www.ansc.purdue.edu/SP/MG/Documents/SLIDES/Urinary calculi.pdf


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## ChickenAndGoatLover (Aug 24, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Those are 3 major stress factors. Each one is very stressful to the kid but all 3 together.... IMO bad move.
> These aren't meat animals going to market. Are there lots of people that do this? Yes. They end up on this forum or others trying to figure out what is wrong with their otherwise healthy goat. Much depends on the individual goat and the management of the farm where you are getting them from.
> If the kids are not on coccidia prevention (the south can have major coccida problems but  it is not just a southern thing) they can have a bloom. Taking a fecal in within 4-7 days after you get them to check for coccidia is really important. Unless your breeder has another protocol.  Probiotics are important and those are great to give.
> 
> ...


I take it in no other way than you are trying to help me and prepare me for what is to come in these situations.   I never thought of all of those small details in regards to him getting banded and what it would be like on him or how we are to notice anything abnormal and give him his best care.    I am going to take a look at that website when I am done posting this.    I do think it’s best we obviously try to wait and give him a week after being banded before bringing him home. He does have two brothers at our house but they clearly have been apart for quite some time and will be of no comfort I’m sure to him at this point.  

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help me so extensively


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## ChickenAndGoatLover (Aug 24, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Those are 3 major stress factors. Each one is very stressful to the kid but all 3 together.... IMO bad move.
> These aren't meat animals going to market. Are there lots of people that do this? Yes. They end up on this forum or others trying to figure out what is wrong with their otherwise healthy goat. Much depends on the individual goat and the management of the farm where you are getting them from.
> If the kids are not on coccidia prevention (the south can have major coccida problems but  it is not just a southern thing) they can have a bloom. Taking a fecal in within 4-7 days after you get them to check for coccidia is really important. Unless your breeder has another protocol.  Probiotics are important and those are great to give.
> 
> ...


I just read the article... 

What and How exactly do you feed your goats? And in my personal situation how would you go about feeding them? 3 doelings and 3 wethers 


Right now I give them some grain, always have access to water, always have access to minerals and baking powder and also have hay along with their 2 acres of forage they have access to... 

Anything else I should be giving? How much grain should I be putting out a day for them? Any supplements you recommend on a daily, weekly, monthly basis? 

Thanks!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 24, 2018)

Remove the baking soda.... it renders the ammonium chloride useless
You want ammonium chloride in your feed

Depends on how much grain (feed) you are giving them

As far as supplements it all depends on your land and their condition etc.
There is no One size fits all in a management program. Always remember that management needs may need adjusted over time.


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## ChickenAndGoatLover (Aug 24, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Remove the baking soda.... it renders the ammonium chloride useless
> You want ammonium chloride in your feed
> 
> Depends on how much grain (feed) you are giving them
> ...


I was always under the impression it was best to help with bloat. I had read to leave our minerals and the baking soda.   Interesting! Thanks!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 24, 2018)

Leaving out baking soda sadly is repeated over and over this is a bad idea. You should have in hand in case there is ever an issue but free choice actually can cause more harm than good.

We have never given it, and there really isn't a good reason to.
The goat makes it's own sodium bicarbonate so giving it may cause the goat more issues... much depends on feeding practices.
If bloat is a problem on the farm then there are issues that need to be addressed. This should NEVER be a common issue. Goats don't just bloat.

Attached is an article from the Alabama Farmers Co-op
http://www.alafarmnews.com/index.php/battling-bloat


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## ChickenAndGoatLover (Aug 24, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Leaving out baking soda sadly is repeated over and over this is a bad idea. You should have in hand in case there is ever an issue but free choice actually can cause more harm than good.
> 
> We have never given it, and there really isn't a good reason to.
> The goat makes it's own sodium bicarbonate so giving it may cause the goat more issues... much depends on feeding practices.
> ...


I’m really grateful you found my post and have spent so much time trying to inform me of good practices. I honestly can’t thank you enough.  Truly.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 24, 2018)

You are welcome. Really, honestly, goats are pretty easy and the breed you have chosen is the easiest goat hands down! 
The simpler you keep things the better. 
Sometimes you start reading all this and can go wow.... uh... I don't know about all this now. Don't worry.
Hopefully you will find a good mentor that can help you along. 

It is a learning curve like any new species of animal... but as long as they have the basics they are pretty hardy.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 24, 2018)

oh, and welcome to BYH.   There are a lot of wonderful goat people here and a wealth of knowledge.


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## Devonviolet (Aug 24, 2018)

Welcome to BYH, from sizzling hot East Texas.  How exciting to be growing your herd!!!

I started with 4 ND wethers (who are no longer with us). I have moved on to LaMancha dairy goats, and last Spring added a beautiful Nubian doeling. I love my goats and the milk they give us!!!

You have gotten some excellent advise from @Southern by choice.  She is among the best advice givers on BYH (we have quite a few knowledgable goat owners here).  She has owned goats from almost the beginning of time.    She is also an expert on LGDs.  Which by the way, I don’t think I saw you mention if you have any LGDs.  They are almost a must, when you own goats.  I have two wonderful Maremma’s, but I am by no means an expert.  One is the minimum, that goat owners should have. But two is much better.

Again, .


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 24, 2018)

Baking powder will cause bloat.  It reacts with acid to make carbon dioxide which gives baked goods light, airy texture.

Baking soda, sodium bicarbonate can aid with relief of rumen acidosis if goat over eats grain.  It is not necessary unless you are pushing for milk production or weight gain with high concentrate diet.  In fact animal is at risk of not eating enough loose mineral mix if they have free access to baking soda.  The animal's drive to consume sodium (salt in the mineral mix) is what makes them eat correct amount of mix. The fad of free choice baking soda comes from commercial dairy cow industry back when they pushed high concentrate for milk production.  Cows died of acidosis without baking soda.

Mineral mix is so important for goat's health.  It should be balanced for your feed ration and your area.   East Tennessee is deficient in selenium,copper, zinc and if you fail to provide minerals goat is at risk.   Used to have to give selenium shots and risk overdose before mineral mixes became available.


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## ChickenAndGoatLover (Aug 24, 2018)

Thank you ALL so so so much! I will be dumping out the baking soda in the AM and hopefully will find a new use for the 30 dollar bucket of it I purchased and just opened yesterday lol! 

I’ll be on here a lot more than I was. I clearly have a lot more to learn and I feel I couldn’t have come to a better place!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 24, 2018)

@Devonviolet  Thank you for such kind words-you are very sweet.   

As far as the baking soda! All is not lost  Baking soda is purchased here in  13# bags. It has so many uses! 
The biggest way we use it is (outside of baking) is cleaning! Everything to pots, pans, stovetops, tubs, laundry, cleaning the dishwasher, running it through our pipes. It is wonderful.
I have a feeling @Devonviolet  could write a book on natural safe products. 

Oh, and if you have kids (human kind) you can always make soda bottle car rockets. 

Yes, this is a great group and btw we all love pictures. The more the better.  I will also add that you will learn perpetually when you own goats. 
We have had many new and unusual experiences this year which I hope to post about. I don't type and am a one finger puncher so it takes a while to write up anything. Ok two fingers and my thumb for the space bar... but still.


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## Finnie (Aug 29, 2018)

This is a great thread. I appreciate new goat owner discussions, because I am thinking of getting goats some day, and reading what new owners are learning has taught me a lot of things I wouldn't have thought of. Those links were great too. I haven't run across those yet in all the Googling I've been doing. 

Thanks folks!


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## Devonviolet (Aug 29, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> I have a feeling @Devonviolet could write a book on natural safe products.


Interesting you should mention that, SBC.  I started selling at our local Farmer’s Market this year. After I realized there was a market for gluten free baked goods, I started making my natural personal care products, and am doing quite well with them.  

Off the top of my head, I am selling:  spray on deodorant, goat milk lotion, “Violet’s Lotion”, which is an anti-inflamatory lotion using goat milk lotion with about 10 different anti-inflammatory essential oils.  I am also selling non-toxic hair spray, liquid raw (as in green, not white sugar alcohol) stevia liquid, healing antibiotic ointment, and elderberry syrup with ginger and raw honey, for preventing and/or healing colds and flu. Today, I am making a roll up deodorant stick and tinted lip gloss in tubes. 

The possibilities are endless.  And there is a huge need for non-toxic products in this toxic, chemical laden world that we live in.


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