# Help needed please...trying to save my eight month old doe, got her in august ,



## B&B Happy goats

Purchased a doe in mid august, born feb. 5th. Just realized last week she was pregnant . She is eight months old, has not been eating, is in birthing pen, kids are moving around alot, is a little dialated, mucus plug out, little white discharge, no consistant contractions, but screams like crazy when she gets one, Have been using syringe  to get electrolytes  into her as she appears to be stuck in her own head and clueless. she is exhausted, and has not enough stregnth to get up and stand on her own. Ligaments are soft, some discharge, please let me know what i can do to help her...i have not gone inside to check anything because their is movement and i don't  she has so much a physical problem  but more of a scared and exhausted problem.....i am repostioning her every hour so she is not just stuck laying down, i do stand her up but have to support her.....no vets around  here deal with goats so am looking for any ideas anyone may have....thank you


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## Hens and Roos

tagging others for you 

@Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @OneFineAcre @babsbag


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## frustratedearthmother

What does her udder look like?   

I would be more worried about her inability to stand than anything else right now.  Does in labor...at least early labor...should not lose the ability to stand.  (There is a small possibility that she has pressure on a nerve that could be causing an issue - but that is fairly uncommon.) But, if she is exhausted from contractions then I'd lube up and do a quick finger sweep and see if she's dilated or has any part of a baby at the cervix.

I'm wondering if her weakness is coming from a different cause.  Have you taken her temp?  Has she been checked for parasites?  

Really hope this has a positive outcome!


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## MiniSilkys

In labor at 8 months! That was a very irresponsible owner! That means she got bred at only 3 moths old. I am very worried for your goat. She is not developed enough to pass a kid in my opinion. My youngest girls are just now 8 months and they still drink from their mothers!


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## frustratedearthmother

I had a neighbor that bought an eight week old baby doe that delivered 5 months later at 7 months - so while not ideal it IS possible.  I've personally had one that delivered at 9 months... oops happens.

If her udder is that full and she's having contractions I urge you to lube up and explore.  At first you should just use a finger or two and see if she's dilated internally.  If you hit a dead end and she's totally closed then you don't have a lot of choice except to wait a bit longer.   If you feel baby parts you must try to identify what you feel.   Has her water broken?  

I hate that you don't have a vet available...


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## B&B Happy goats

I am at same thought as you, quite angry as a matter of fact its like a ten or twelve year old child giving birth...however, she made thru the last two nights, i sty to stay with her but she hasr that far away in her own head look, i thought she would be gone this morning but electrolytes  and lamb and kid suppliment brought her back , going to go check again, thanks for the response,  i dont feel so all alome.....


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## frustratedearthmother

B&B Happy goats said:


> I am at same thought as you, quite angry as a matter of fact its like a ten or twelve year old child giving birth...however, she made thru the last two nights,


Has this been going on for two nights?


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## B&B Happy goats

I wonder when they are in the wild, and tgey get bred....how do they manage ?


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## frustratedearthmother

Good luck - hope it turns out well!


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## MiniSilkys

frustratedearthmother said:


> I had a neighbor that bought an eight week old baby doe that delivered 5 months later at 7 months - so while not ideal it IS possible.  I've personally had one that delivered at 9 months... oops happens.
> 
> If her udder is that full and she's having contractions I urge you to lube up and explore.  At first you should just use a finger or two and see if she's dilated internally.  If you hit a dead end and she's totally closed then you don't have a lot of choice except to wait a bit longer.   If you feel baby parts you must try to identify what you feel.   Has her water broken?
> 
> I hate that you don't have a vet available...


Have you really had one birth that young?


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## frustratedearthmother

Yes


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## B&B Happy goats

I hate that we just moved here and the human hospital is two hours away, vets arend here ars dog, cat and horses,,,,,what about goats...it is mostly farm country her....


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## MiniSilkys

Have you tried calling the vet anyway? A goat birth can't be that much different than a large dog.


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## MiniSilkys

My vet doesn't do goats either.


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## Latestarter

Greetings and welcome to BYH from NE TX! So glad you joined us, but sorry for the reason. There's a wealth of info, knowledge and experience shared in the multitude of threads. Now probably isn't the time, but later, you should browse around and see what interesting stuff you can find. By all means post away when the desire strikes you, especially if you have questions (provide as much detail/info as possible and pictures truly help)... With all the great folks here, generally someone will respond in no time at all. Please make yourself at home!

I only have a couple years experience... nowhere near the level as some others here. I had a doe get pregnant @ ~7 months last fall and she delivered with no issues at all. Not as young as yours, but in the wild, when they are in season, they get bred. In your situation I would be trying to assist with the birthing process. It sounds like she's worn out from trying to have them. IMHO, she's either not dilated enough, which you may be able to help with massage, or the first kid is misrepresenting and can't get out. Either way, she'll need help or you'll lose the doe and kids. Glove up and lube and you'll have to go internal and try and determine what's going on... If you7 can get a finger or two past the cervix, you should be able to feel hooves or nose... if not, then you'll need to try and determine what part of the kid you're feeling.

ETA: what breed of goat is it? Pictures always help when you need help...


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## frustratedearthmother

IF your goat has been in labor - and I'm talking about REAL labor, for two days she will die without help.  A C-section might be needed...OR you could do an internal exam and actually see what's going on.  What you see on the outside has little to nothing to do with what is going on inside.

You are all she has right now and she needs your help.


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## B&B Happy goats

MiniSilkys said:


> Have you tried calling the vet anyway? A goat birth can't be that much different than a large dog.


I called and asked her yesterday, she said she doesn't  even know of one that would come this far out. So i will be changing vets as she seemed not to value a goats life...and i just came back in from barn and she shows no signs of discomfort and laying down while sitting....couldn't  do that three hours ago. So i am going to wait on going into check and let her rest toll 5am. I did order a vidio baby cam with sound, to save on trios $52.00, its worth the pain in my back,  feet  and brain. Thank you so much!


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## B&B Happy goats

frustratedearthmother said:


> IF your goat has been in labor - and I'm talking about REAL labor, for two days she will die without help.  A C-section might be needed...OR you could do an internal exam and actually see what's going on.  What you see on the outside has little to nothing to do with what is going on inside.
> 
> You are all she has right now and she needs your help.


Her "labo" is not a hard or any kind of labor that i have seen, perhaps kids position could be caus of pain, will go in in the morning to check for sure, maby they will be ready for a rocket launch birth ! Fast, easy and all girls, lol. Thank you


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## Latestarter

Hope come morning you go out and discover live kids on the ground all dried off and plump from drinking mother's milk. Please let us know. Good luck.


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## B&B Happy goats

I 


B&B Happy goats said:


> Her "labo" is not a hard or any kind of labor that i have seen, perhaps kids position could be caus of pain, will go in in the morning to check for sure, maby they will be ready for a rocket launch birth ! Fast, easy and all girls, lol. Thank you


I am sorry how my spelling is comming thru, tablet has a mind of it's own  !


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## Wehner Homestead

If she’s been doing that for two days and is resting now, her body is no longer in labor mode and you’ll end up with dead kids and likely a dead doe. You need to go in now and get them out! 

I’m not trying to be harsh but you are going to risk losing all of them by putting it off any longer!


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## MiniSilkys

I would not wait. It won't do her any harm checking. I had a pregnant pygmy doe that I found sitting propped up in a corner grinding her teeth a little. When it went to research about 30 minutes and came back and she was down and died while I cried wondering what I should do.


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## MiniSilkys

Wehner Homestead said:


> If she’s been doing that for two days and is resting now, her body is no longer in labor mode and you’ll end up with dead kids and likely a dead doe. You need to go in now and get them out!
> 
> I’m not trying to be harsh but you are going to risk losing all of them by putting it off any longer!


I did not know you were online.


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## frustratedearthmother

B&B Happy goats said:


> Her "labo" is not a hard or any kind of labor that i have seen, perhaps kids position could be caus of pain, will go in in the morning to check for sure, maby they will be ready for a rocket launch birth ! Fast, easy and all girls, lol. Thank you


Even IF she is NOT in labor - it is not normal for her to be unable to stand.  Something is going on with your goat. 

If she has been in labor and it does not progress - then she will give up.  The hormones that start labor do not last forever. 

You came here and asked for help and everyone who has responded have suggested the same thing.  I'm not trying to be rude or mean but if you don't help her - who will?

And yes - find a new vet!

Now - having said all that - It would be awesome if you get live babies and a healthy mama after all this.


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## B&B Happy goats

Ladies and gentlemen,  i am going back out to check, clean gloves , ky and will let you all know. Results...your not being rude, and thank you for the. Kick in the butt !


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## Wehner Homestead

Thank you! Hoping all turns out well!


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## B&B Happy goats

Back inside right middle finger lube up, slid in half inch easily, hit band and easily expanded then got to my knuckle  and hit very tight ...felt like bones on both side almost like tight pelvis, she is resting very comfortably, and had more fluid by syringe. ...perhaps she isn't  in true labor yet ?


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## frustratedearthmother

Glad you checked!  Maybe she's not...


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## MiniSilkys

Maybe you can breathe a little now. Let us know how she's doing and when she does kid.


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## MiniSilkys

You didn't take any pics while you were out there? I/we would love to she what she looks like anyway.


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## B&B Happy goats

MiniSilkys said:


> Maybe you can breathe a little now. Let us know how she's doing and when she does kid.


I sure will let ya all know how samatha is, i have faith in her, but breathing easier comes when this is over...just can't  fathom a littly girl like her pregnant....blows me away, thanks for the invasion push, lol


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## Ridgetop

I hope everything turns out well.  Kids can be fertile and breed surprisingly early.  We bought a ewe lamb one year and she surprised us by giving birth suddenly at 10 months of age.  Sadly, we did not have her confined because we didn't even know she was pregnant.  She lambed in the field and since no one knew, she had trouble, the baby suffered brain damage from lack of oxygen.  He could never stand, we milked the ewe and bottle fed him, but we had to put him down 3 days later.  I really don't like breeding younger than about a year old now, although we did breed many yearling milkers and only had trouble with one.  In this case, 8 months is really too small.  Also, the doeling probably couldn't grow as much as she should have since she was diverting much of her nutrition to the growing kids.  If there is a sheep or goat vet within 2 hours drive, I would consider taking her there.  Better safe than sorry.

Goats can have a full udder several days before giving birth, or can be almost empty and fill within hours of kidding.  If your doeling has a full udder that is leaking colostrum, she is probably very close to kidding.  I agree with Wehner, frustrated, and Minisilkies - this labor does not sound at all normal thing.  During labor pressure can cause the doe to be unable to stand  occasionally, but that is usually during hard labor.  How do the ligaments feel?  On the other hand, some does scream during labor while others make no noise at all.

_*Do not be afraid to feel inside the doe*_ since if they have been labor for a long time and you missed it, they stop pushing because they are exhausted and nothing is happening.  Labor will stop completely if the kids die inside or if the doe cannot push them out because of dystocia.  Go online and pull up a drawing of how the kid is supposed to present during birth.  That will give you an idea of what you need to feel for.  There is a finite window of time to be able to intervene and save the kids in a difficult birth.  I had a lovely doe that we bought after she had a deformed kid as a first freshener that had to be delivered by cutting the kid apart.  I did not realize that she had developed so much scar tissue that when she tried to deliver the next year, she couldn't deliver.  I kept checking her but she did not push or seem to go into labor.  Finally, 2 days after her due date I took her to the vet and he pulled a single dead kid.  He had to cut the scar tissue before he could deliver the kid.  I decided not to breed her any more.  It was a shame because she was an ADGA champion and was absolutely lovely with wonderful bloodlines.  It wasn't worth her life.

Check Wehner's page about her kidding yesterday.  She had to pull both kids and luckily she acted promptly and saved them.  Do not be afraid to pull kids if there is a problem.  Too many people are worried about interfering and lose the kids and sometimes the doe too.

Hope to hear soon that you had a successful kidding.


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## babsbag

If the electrolytes helped her I would be concerned about ketosis. This is a great article. I would give her the Karo Syrup asap, you can rub it on her gums if she won't take it another way. 

https://fiascofarm.com/goats/ketosis.htm


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## B&B Happy goats

Ridgetop said:


> I hope everything turns out well.  Kids can be fertile and breed surprisingly early.  We bought a ewe lamb one year and she surprised us by giving birth suddenly at 10 months of age.  Sadly, we did not have her confined because we didn't even know she was pregnant.  She lambed in the field and since no one knew, she had trouble, the baby suffered brain damage from lack of oxygen.  He could never stand, we milked the ewe and bottle fed him, but we had to put him down 3 days later.  I really don't like breeding younger than about a year old now, although we did breed many yearling milkers and only had trouble with one.  In this case, 8 months is really too small.  Also, the doeling probably couldn't grow as much as she should have since she was diverting much of her nutrition to the growing kids.  If there is a sheep or goat vet within 2 hours drive, I would consider taking her there.  Better safe than sorry.
> 
> Goats can have a full udder several days before giving birth, or can be almost empty and fill within hours of kidding.  If your doeling has a full udder that is leaking colostrum, she is probably very close to kidding.  I agree with Wehner, frustrated, and Minisilkies - this labor does not sound at all normal thing.  During labor pressure can cause the doe to be unable to stand  occasionally, but that is usually during hard labor.  How do the ligaments feel?  On the other hand, some does scream during labor while others make no noise at all.
> 
> _*Do not be afraid to feel inside the doe*_ since if they have been labor for a long time and you missed it, they stop pushing because they are exhausted and nothing is happening.  Labor will stop completely if the kids die inside or if the doe cannot push them out because of dystocia.  Go online and pull up a drawing of how the kid is supposed to present during birth.  That will give you an idea of what you need to feel for.  There is a finite window of time to be able to intervene and save the kids in a difficult birth.  I had a lovely doe that we bought after she had a deformed kid as a first freshener that had to be delivered by cutting the kid apart.  I did not realize that she had developed so much scar tissue that when she tried to deliver the next year, she couldn't deliver.  I kept checking her but she did not push or seem to go into labor.  Finally, 2 days after her due date I took her to the vet and he pulled a single dead kid.  He had to cut the scar tissue before he could deliver the kid.  I decided not to breed her any more.  It was a shame because she was an ADGA champion and was absolutely lovely with wonderful bloodlines.  It wasn't worth her life.
> 
> Check Wehner's page about her kidding yesterday.  She had to pull both kids and luckily she acted promptly and saved them.  Do not be afraid to pull kids if there is a problem.  Too many people are worried about interfering and lose the kids and sometimes the doe too.
> 
> Hope to hear soon that you had a successful kidding.


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## B&B Happy goats

Thank you for your information,  greatly appreciated.  She is still alive, checked insid this morning, much softer and loose, plan is to have husband looking for vet while i stay with her and try to massage , talk and get her moving.....will keep you all posted, thank you for all thr help.


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## B&B Happy goats

Back again, i have moved her to our back porch, her sister has bagged up...go figure!  We can't  find a vet, so i am going to keep her alive till i see her wanting to go. She still will eat a little grain and hay, can't  feel kids in position but still feel movement that they are alive....we are now under the hurricane  watch so samantha will be in my lap in the house if needed, crazy goat woman won't  give up.


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## greybeard

You basically have a tad more 48 hrs before the hurricane arrives. Hope this issue is resolved before then.
Forecast of what and where it will be in 2 days from this morning:
48(Hours out)  (Oct) 10/0600Z (hrs)  27.2N  86.7W   95 KT 110 MPH
(Which is about 145 miles due south of Pensacola, tho they don't know how fast it will be traveling in the next 24 hrs)


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## Latestarter

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/
National Hurricane Center. Lots of maps, charts, predictions, info, etc.


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## greybeard

00:00amGMT=20:00pmEDT
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07:00amGMT=03:00amEDT
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10:00amGMT=06:00amEDT
11:00amGMT=07:00amEDT
12:00pmGMT=08:00amEDT
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20:00pmGMT=16:00pmEDT
21:00pmGMT=17:00pmEDT
22:00pmGMT=18:00pmEDT
23:00pmGMT=19:00pmEDT


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## B&B Happy goats

We FOUND A VET !!!  AND HE IS ON HIS WAY...


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## frustratedearthmother

That is awesome!  Hoping for the best for you and your doe - you've both been through a lot of stress already!

Please let us know how it goes!


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## Ridgetop

Never give up.  Keep fighting for her.  Sounds like both kids got bred - unfortunate but you can handle it.  Of she is tiny and the kids are shifting preparatory to kidding one may have pressed on a nerve, temporarily paralyzing her. 
So glad you have a vet coming!  Make sure to have him check both goats since the other one is bagging up now too.  If they are too small to kid normally, he can do a C-section.  They go in on upper side of goat, side opposite the rumen, NOT below belly, and if done before goat is too far gone, goat recovers and is fine.  Saw one done at ADGA National Convention many years ago - older Nubian doe whose owner wanted a last set of kids from bloodline - 3 doelings and 1 buckling - doe and kids were fine.  Doe was retired from breeding due to her age.  Both goats will be fine now.

Stay calm and start collecting everything you will need for the birth.  Here is a list:

*Antibacterial liquid soap *- this can be used as a scrub for your hands and also to lube up if you need to go inside doe to pull kids.
*Goat book or photo print out of possible birth positions *- if you have to sort out legs ad body parts this will help you visualize what you are feeling inside the goat - this is super important since you need to be sure you are pulling  either both the front or back legs of the same kid.
*Sharp scissors* - to cut cord.  Often t breaks or doe will bite it but I have had cords stretch out and break off too close to belly or be too long and you will want to trim it.
*Iodine or alcohol for the cord* - a pill bottle makes an excellent application tool, fill with iodine or alcohol, hold kid
and dip cord end into bottle.  This will sterilize open cord and keep kid from getting navel infection (joint ill).
*Clean old towels *- to dry kids after birth - mom will do it but I like to help because rubbing will help stimulate a weak kid, also of you have to pull kids wrapping the slimy legs in the dry towel gives you a better grip if they are hard to pull out.
*Nasal aspirator *- I used the ones from the hospital when I had my babies.  Now I get them from my daughter and daughter in law when they have babies.  I like them better than the commercial ones because the nose is long.  Any ind of bulb syringe will do.  Place it in the nostrils and suck out mucous.  In a long difficult birth the kids will often try to breathe and suck in birth fluids.
*Dental floss* *- *in case cord continues to bleed you can tie it off.  If cord bleeds I put iodine on end, then squeeze cord closed and still squeezing slightly run fingers up cord to belly.  This will often crush cord together and seal it off.
*Antibiotics *- in case you have to go inside goat to sort out and pull kids.  Either injectable (I use penicillin which is available on line or from the feed store) or you can also order intra uterine pessaries on line.
*PUT ALL THESE ITEMS INTO A BAG IN CASE YOU HAVE TO EVACUATE BEFORE KIDDING - YOU CAN GRAB IT AND RUN OUT WITH GOATS.  *I keep all my kidding/lambing supplies, except towels, in a carrying case in the barn so everything is handy.


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## B&B Happy goats

Well my update is a painfull one, samantha is gone, the vet did every thing he could, we even cut her open to try and save baby.....she was as you all said...toxic, two weeks premature and vet thinks  other sister will go the same direction. Will be trying to save other girl but also need to mend my heart and prepare  hurricane.....thank you , each and every goat loving owner....never give up hope...peace to all...barb ...dammm i am so heart broken


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## Latestarter

I'm sorry to hear that you lost her. Don't let this ruin your desire to own goats. These things happen and the person you got the animal from is the one responsible for this loss. I suggest after you are through grieving that you contact a reputable breeder and acquire replacement animals that you KNOW will have been properly cared for. Best wishes that the second doe doesn't follow in the first doe's hoofsteps...  Please also know that you are still welcome here at BYH. Hope you'll let us know the outcome of the 2nd doe.


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## Goat Whisperer

I am so sorry for your loss. How heartbreaking  

Can you schedule a C-section for the other doe? The kids may not be viable but it could save the remaining doe.


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## frustratedearthmother

I am so sorry that it ended this way. Like LS said- please don't let this curb your desire for these awesome animals.  You've had a baptism by fire but you've also learned a lot and someday it might be your turn to help someone and their animal.  
Really hoping the other doe can get through it with flying colors and that you at least get some little ones to help ease the loss of Samantha.


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## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear


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## B&B Happy goats

I love you guys, i do have three registered ADGA goats and two bucks that we,  keep in other pasture, and have (now) three "pet" quality does  here.... after all was done, and while i was busy feeding other goats, they were smelling samatha on me and asking wher she was...you all know how they know,... all of a sudden the sky got dark and it started to rain hard, i cried while  the rain washed away the tears....be blessed and thank you so much, the support kept me going


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## B&B Happy goats

I have contacted the breeder....she wants to give me a doeling that was born in august,  i asked her if she was in the same area as the buck, she said yes but the buck has no intrest in her .... what do you think i should do...take the doe ...or not ?


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## babsbag

I am so sorry you lost Samantha, I checked on here after milking hoping for a better update.  It is so hard to lose them.  Is the vet giving you some treatment options for your other doe to try and get her through this?  

You could take the doeling and have a sonogram or blood test done to see if she is bred and if she is  she would only be a few months along and you could give her lute and let her abort the baby and grow up. Why oh why is this breeder keeping babies and bucks together? Heck I have some that are 8 months old now and I am trying to decide if I am breeding this year or not. So very irresponsible of the breeder.


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## B&B Happy goats

Hens and Roos said:


> sorry to hear





Hens and Roos said:


> sorry to hear


th
[....QUOTE="Goat Whisperer, post: 571496, member: 9889"]I am so sorry for your loss. How heartbreaking 

Can you schedule a C-section for the other doe? The kids may not be viable but it could save the remaining doe.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, vet said c section was not advisable  due to young age of goat, nutrition from birth and apparently  the buck was larger than breeder said....but going to follow vets recommended  plan, preparing for thr worst and hoping fot the best


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## B&B Happy goats

babsbag said:


> I am so sorry you lost Samantha, I checked on here after milking hoping for a better update.  It is so hard to lose them.  Is the vet giving you some treatment options for your other doe to try and get her through this?
> 
> You could take the doeling and have a sonogram or blood test done to see if she is bred and if she is  she would only be a few months along and you could give her lute and let her abort the baby and grow up. Why oh why is this breeder keeping babies and bucks together? Heck I have some that are 8 months old now and I am trying to decide if I am breeding this year or not. So very irresponsible of the breeder.


The breeder has offered me a doe born in august, i don't  know if i should take it or not, what re your thoughts ?


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## B&B Happy goats

B&B Happy goats said:


> The breeder has offered me a doe born in august, i don't  know if i should take it or not, what re your thoughts ?


Yes, i am going to follow his directions to keep her going....he expects same out come, but i plan on giving it a shot and doing my best...i am a retired end of life giver, human diseases and death are normal for me....except for my animals, she is the first one i have lost since  1977


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## B&B Happy goats

Ca


babsbag said:


> I am so sorry you lost Samantha, I checked on here after milking hoping for a better update.  It is so hard to lose them.  Is the vet giving you some treatment options for your other doe to try and get her through this?
> 
> You could take the doeling and have a sonogram or blood test done to see if she is bred and if she is  she would only be a few months along and you could give her lute and let her abort the baby and grow up. Why oh why is this breeder keeping babies and bucks together? Heck I have some that are 8 months old now and I am trying to decide if I am breeding this year or not. So very irresponsible of the breeder.


Thank you, you made me smile


Ridgetop said:


> Never give up.  Keep fighting for her.  Sounds like both kids got bred - unfortunate but you can handle it.  Of she is tiny and the kids are shifting preparatory to kidding one may have pressed on a nerve, temporarily paralyzing her.
> So glad you have a vet coming!  Make sure to have him check both goats since the other one is bagging up now too.  If they are too small to kid normally, he can do a C-section.  They go in on upper side of goat, side opposite the rumen, NOT below belly, and if done before goat is too far gone, goat recovers and is fine.  Saw one done at ADGA National Convention many years ago - older Nubian doe whose owner wanted a last set of kids from bloodline - 3 doelings and 1 buckling - doe and kids were fine.  Doe was retired from breeding due to her age.  Both goats will be fine now.
> 
> Stay calm and start collecting everything you will need for the birth.  Here is a list:
> 
> *Antibacterial liquid soap *- this can be used as a scrub for your hands and also to lube up if you need to go inside doe to pull kids.
> *Goat book or photo print out of possible birth positions *- if you have to sort out legs ad body parts this will help you visualize what you are feeling inside the goat - this is super important since you need to be sure you are pulling  either both the front or back legs of the same kid.
> *Sharp scissors* - to cut cord.  Often t breaks or doe will bite it but I have had cords stretch out and break off too close to belly or be too long and you will want to trim it.
> *Iodine or alcohol for the cord* - a pill bottle makes an excellent application tool, fill with iodine or alcohol, hold kid
> and dip cord end into bottle.  This will sterilize open cord and keep kid from getting navel infection (joint ill).
> *Clean old towels *- to dry kids after birth - mom will do it but I like to help because rubbing will help stimulate a weak kid, also of you have to pull kids wrapping the slimy legs in the dry towel gives you a better grip if they are hard to pull out.
> *Nasal aspirator *- I used the ones from the hospital when I had my babies.  Now I get them from my daughter and daughter in law when they have babies.  I like them better than the commercial ones because the nose is long.  Any ind of bulb syringe will do.  Place it in the nostrils and suck out mucous.  In a long difficult birth the kids will often try to breathe and suck in birth fluids.
> *Dental floss* *- *in case cord continues to bleed you can tie it off.  If cord bleeds I put iodine on end, then squeeze cord closed and still squeezing slightly run fingers up cord to belly.  This will often crush cord together and seal it off.
> *Antibiotics *- in case you have to go inside goat to sort out and pull kids.  Either injectable (I use penicillin which is available on line or from the feed store) or you can also order intra uterine pessaries on line.
> *PUT ALL THESE ITEMS INTO A BAG IN CASE YOU HAVE TO EVACUATE BEFORE KIDDING - YOU CAN GRAB IT AND RUN OUT WITH GOATS.  *I keep all my kidding/lambing supplies, except towels, in a carrying case in the barn so everything is handy.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

babsbag said:


> I am so sorry you lost Samantha, I checked on here after milking hoping for a better update.  It is so hard to lose them.  Is the vet giving you some treatment options for your other doe to try and get her through this?
> 
> You could take the doeling and have a sonogram or blood test done to see if she is bred and if she is  she would only be a few months along and you could give her lute and let her abort the baby and grow up. Why oh why is this breeder keeping babies and bucks together? Heck I have some that are 8 months old now and I am trying to decide if I am breeding this year or not. So very irresponsible of the breeder.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

goats, post: 571517, member: 18434"][/QUOTE]
She was checked by vet today, he expects smat out come. But he gave me instructions to keep her going to full term and told me how to do c section if momma starts failing, with same ptoblem samatha had...if it help you to know, i did contact breeder and flat out told her how stupid and unprofessional  she was. Sho offered to give me doeling born in august ....what do you think i should do ?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Goat Whisperer said:


> I am so sorry for your loss. How heartbreaking
> 
> Can you schedule a C-section for the other doe? The kids may not be viable but it could save the remaining doe.


Vet said due to young age, same buck, and poor nutrition,  they all wouldn't  make it. So going to follow his plan, see how she progress  in next week and if she is headed the same way, he showed me how to open her up lift kisds out and then put her down fast.....the poor nutrition  was before  she came here, i spoil and feed my girls better than i do myself.  If she went to the university of fl, i would be in the thousand dollar range...without guarebteed results... said if it was his animal, he would do as i am planning to do. Will keep you all up to date, mentally drained and going to go to bed....thank you so much for your help,


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Ridgetop said:


> Never give up.  Keep fighting for her.  Sounds like both kids got bred - unfortunate but you can handle it.  Of she is tiny and the kids are shifting preparatory to kidding one may have pressed on a nerve, temporarily paralyzing her.
> So glad you have a vet coming!  Make sure to have him check both goats since the other one is bagging up now too.  If they are too small to kid normally, he can do a C-section.  They go in on upper side of goat, side opposite the rumen, NOT below belly, and if done before goat is too far gone, goat recovers and is fine.  Saw one done at ADGA National Convention many years ago - older Nubian doe whose owner wanted a last set of kids from bloodline - 3 doelings and 1 buckling - doe and kids were fine.  Doe was retired from breeding due to her age.  Both goats will be fine now.
> 
> Stay calm and start collecting everything you will need for the birth.  Here is a list:
> 
> *Antibacterial liquid soap *- this can be used as a scrub for your hands and also to lube up if you need to go inside doe to pull kids.
> *Goat book or photo print out of possible birth positions *- if you have to sort out legs ad body parts this will help you visualize what you are feeling inside the goat - this is super important since you need to be sure you are pulling  either both the front or back legs of the same kid.
> *Sharp scissors* - to cut cord.  Often t breaks or doe will bite it but I have had cords stretch out and break off too close to belly or be too long and you will want to trim it.
> *Iodine or alcohol for the cord* - a pill bottle makes an excellent application tool, fill with iodine or alcohol, hold kid
> and dip cord end into bottle.  This will sterilize open cord and keep kid from getting navel infection (joint ill).
> *Clean old towels *- to dry kids after birth - mom will do it but I like to help because rubbing will help stimulate a weak kid, also of you have to pull kids wrapping the slimy legs in the dry towel gives you a better grip if they are hard to pull out.
> *Nasal aspirator *- I used the ones from the hospital when I had my babies.  Now I get them from my daughter and daughter in law when they have babies.  I like them better than the commercial ones because the nose is long.  Any ind of bulb syringe will do.  Place it in the nostrils and suck out mucous.  In a long difficult birth the kids will often try to breathe and suck in birth fluids.
> *Dental floss* *- *in case cord continues to bleed you can tie it off.  If cord bleeds I put iodine on end, then squeeze cord closed and still squeezing slightly run fingers up cord to belly.  This will often crush cord together and seal it off.
> *Antibiotics *- in case you have to go inside goat to sort out and pull kids.  Either injectable (I use penicillin which is available on line or from the feed store) or you can also order intra uterine pessaries on line.
> *PUT ALL THESE ITEMS INTO A BAG IN CASE YOU HAVE TO EVACUATE BEFORE KIDDING - YOU CAN GRAB IT AND RUN OUT WITH GOATS.  *I keep all my kidding/lambing supplies, except towels, in a carrying case in the barn so everything is handy.


----------



## babsbag

You can get ketone strips at the drug store and you can test her urine to see how she is doing.  I do believe in miracles so keep on giving her the best and hopefully it will work out. She needs the best nutrition she can get right now, high in calories and low in volume.  I would look at adding some calf Manna to her diet...slowly of course. 

As I stated before, I would take the kid and have her checked.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

After retiring from end of life caregiving , i am way to organized  with the prep kit, towels and supplies , my husband laughs at me....i plan for the worst and pray for the best outcome....people passing i can do...no matter of the situation i can handle it.....but my animals, omg, i hold it together and stay focused and stay with them....but today i told her she was not going to die period....well that was not the outcome i wantd, like i tell dieing patients familys. ..when you are too close, sometimes the brain can't  process what the eye sees.


----------



## Bayleaf Meadows

A lot of thought goes into getting another goat.  How many goats do you want or are able to care for?  What are you looking for in a goat?  Is the goat from a disease free herd or could she be bringing illness to your herd with her?  You may be getting heartache from this breeder or a nice doeling. But do you want to take a chance...You probably will have new goats of your own, maybe some kids in the spring?  If you do decide to get her, I know you will give her lots of loving care.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Vet


babsbag said:


> You can get ketone strips at the drug store and you can test her urine to see how she is doing.  I do believe in miracles so keep on giving her the best and hopefully it will work out. She needs the best nutrition she can get right now, high in calories and low in volume.  I would look at adding some calf Manna to her diet...slowly of course.
> 
> As I stated before, I would take the kid and have her checked.


 Checked today, due to her age, prior nutrition and size of buck, he expects same situation. I am doing as you have suggested, she needs about two more weeks for kids to be born alive...if she goes into labor, or the same things start to happen to her he showed me how to do a c section if i want to try to save the kidswe are mentally drained and i am going to bed. Thank you so much, i will keep ambers information up to date for you to read, again thank you


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Will definitely get the strips tommorow, and the calf manna


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> Greetings and welcome to BYH from NE TX! So glad you joined us, but sorry for the reason. There's a wealth of info, knowledge and experience shared in the multitude of threads. Now probably isn't the time, but later, you should browse around and see what interesting stuff you can find. By all means post away when the desire strikes you, especially if you have questions (provide as much detail/info as possible and pictures truly help)... With all the great folks here, generally someone will respond in no time at all. Please make yourself at home!
> 
> I only have a couple years experience... nowhere near the level as some others here. I had a doe get pregnant @ ~7 months last fall and she delivered with no issues at all. Not as young as yours, but in the wild, when they are in season, they get bred. In your situation I would be trying to assist with the birthing process. It sounds like she's worn out from trying to have them. IMHO, she's either not dilated enough, which you may be able to help with massage, or the first kid is misrepresenting and can't get out. Either way, she'll need help or you'll lose the doe and kids. Glove up and lube and you'll have to go internal and try and determine what's going on... If you7 can get a finger or two past the cervix, you should be able to feel hooves or nose... if not, then you'll need to try and determine what part of the kid you're feeling.
> 
> ETA: what breed of goat is it? Pictures always help when you need help...


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I’m so sorry that you lost Samantha. The first bred Nigerian that I bought was too small to be bred. It was horrible. I stayed with her and checked her (I raised Boers prior and have had cattle my whole life.) We ended up doing a csection on her and saved her. Lost the kid. I totally get it. 

As far as another, if you get her, I’d contact the vet that was just there and discuss it with him. He will probably have you give her something called Lute or lutalyse about two weeks after you get her to make her abort any fetuses if she got bred. This would be the safest route and the med has to come from the vet anyway. 

I’d just be tempted to wait and go elsewhere if I really wanted to add to my herd. My preference is to retain females born, if possible, instead of bringing more in.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

We  have all NG DWARF, CAN'T UPLOAD ANY THING, DID get vet here, lost doe and one very large kid, vet thinks other sister goat will do same...may have better results after kids are more mature at birth.plan is if Amber starts heading  down hill like her sister, vet showeh me how to c section then put mom down...planning for worst hopping for the best. Following vets directions for Amber...will keep everyone posted ✌


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Wehner Homestead said:


> I’m so sorry that you lost Samantha. The first bred Nigerian that I bought was too small to be bred. It was horrible. I stayed with her and checked her (I raised Boers prior and have had cattle my whole life.) We ended up doing a csection on her and saved her. Lost the kid. I totally get it.
> 
> As far as another, if you get her, I’d contact the vet that was just there and discuss it with him. He will probably have you give her something called Lute or lutalyse about two weeks after you get her to make her abort any fetuses if she got bred. This would be the safest route and the med has to come from the vet anyway.
> 
> I’d just be tempted to wait and go elsewhere if I really wanted to add to my herd. My preference is to retain females born, if possible, instead of bringing more in.


I agree, not feeling it with breeder, although she says she feels bad, can't feel as bad as we do, most likely to pass on her offer, thank you


----------



## Latestarter

Once again, so sorry you're going through this. You didn't sign on for this for ask for it. I applaud that you did all that you could to try and get a positive result with Samantha. It's a shame that it wasn't possible. Fingers crossed  that things go differently with Amber. Get some rest and release some stress. We're here for you if/when you need an outlet.


----------



## MiniSilkys

I was so much praying for a different outcome for you. And I will pray for Amber. When I bought my first pygmy the owner said she was due in about 30 - 45 days. When that time came around she went into labor. She gave birth to a small doe that was having trouble breathing. And to tell you the truth I put her tiny muzzle in my mouth and tried to clear her airway. I was totally not prepared and had nothing else to use. She died after 15 minutes. Then when I came back to check on mama doe, she was in the middle of labor again. She pushed out a little buck the was swollen to three times the size of the little doe and did not have any fur or eye slits. He had died sometime in gestation and poisoned his sister. Later I read that you should never move a doe any long distance in the last trimester. Again I will pray for you and Amber.


----------



## Ridgetop

Horrible for you.  I am so sorry.   I agree DO NOT get another goat from that breeder.  Even with Lutelyse the outcome would be uncertain and it would be very stressful for you.  So awful for you having to go through this again with Amber. 

We lost DS2's favorite home bred doe when she couldn't give birth to an oversize kid.  We had lots of goats but she was everyone's favorite.  Her name was Kiwi and she was a beautiful LaMancha.  I tried for an hour to pull the kid but it was too big.  She needed a C-section.   I called every vet I could reach and none of them would do a C-section.  Finally I loaded the goat and DS2 and 3 into the truck and drove to my friend's house 30 minutes away.  We both tried to pull the kid.  Finally, poor Kiwi was so torn up and suffering so badly DS2 told us put her down.  He was only 12 but he made the decision not to let her suffer any more.  We were all crying.  I asked my friend to get her gun.  We put Kiwi down and immediately cut her open to save the kid.  He had been alive and nibbling my fingers 15 minutes earlier but when we opened her up a few minutes later he had died.  It was a huge single buck kid.  His leg bones were as big as the doe's.  We never used that sire on first fresheners again.  It is one reason why I hate singles.  Twins are usually smaller and easier on the doe.  Our hearts were broken.  DS2 was devastated.  It happened 20 years ago, and I have saved many, many does and kids since then, but I still feel so guilty for not saving Kiwi that I cry.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

k


Ridgetop said:


> Horrible for you.  I am so sorry.   I agree DO NOT get another goat from that breeder.  Even with Lutelyse the outcome would be uncertain and it would be very stressful for you.  So awful for you having to go through this again with Amber.
> 
> We lost DS2's favorite home bred doe when she couldn't give birth to an oversize kid.  We had lots of goats but she was everyone's favorite.  Her name was Kiwi and she was a beautiful LaMancha.  I tried for an hour to pull the kid but it was too big.  She needed a C-section.   I called every vet I could reach and none of them would do a C-section.  Finally I loaded the goat and DS2 and 3 into the truck and drove to my friend's house 30 minutes away.  We both tried to pull the kid.  Finally, poor Kiwi was so torn up and suffering so badly DS2 told us put her down.  He was only 12 but he made the decision not to let her suffer any more.  We were all crying.  I asked my friend to get her gun.  We put Kiwi down and immediately cut her open to save the kid.  He had been alive and nibbling my fingers 15 minutes earlier but when we opened her up a few minutes later he had died.  It was a huge single buck kid.  His leg bones were as big as the doe's.  We never used that sire on first fresheners again.  It is one reason why I hate singles.  Twins are usually smaller and easier on the doe.  Our hearts were broken.  DS2 was devastated.  It happened 20 years ago, and I have saved many, many does and kids since then, but I still feel so guilty for not saving Kiwi that I cry.


It's  3:20 am, got some rest, thank you for your kind response ....you never forget a experience  as we both have had. Animals depend on us for everything and in return we get love, poo and laughter and a bond like no other on earth.  As far as amber,  i now know the signs, and i won't  let US go thru three days of torture,  vet said bullet, oh lord give me the stregnth if thats the route ....considered doing c section if she goes full term but can't  deliver... but what pandoras box will i open as i know lack of proper nutrition  prior to my getting them was a major factor...perhaps i would just keep them all as one and lay them to forrage in greener pastures. Amber by the way has wattles,  and beautiful blue eyes.... going back to bed, have a beautiful day today


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## Wehner Homestead

I don’t believe in letting my animals suffer...may not be easy but it’s one of the kinder things that I can do for them. You’ll know if that’s what you are supposed to do. Trust your instincts. 


Pray for multiples...they may stand a chance of being delivered...


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## B&B Happy goats

Wehner Homestead said:


> I don’t believe in letting my animals suffer...may not be easy but it’s one of the kinder things that I can do for them. You’ll know if that’s what you are supposed to do. Trust your instincts.
> 
> 
> Pray for multiples...they may stand a chance of being delivered...


I am, i will pray big time, but will do what is needed...will stay intouch my goat buddy, lol


----------



## greybeard

It is unfortunate things turned out as they did, and I've had it happen with heifer cattle too...as far as losing the newborn..not the momma...or at least not in a lot of years.

The reality is, that even with everything planned and done 'perfectly' .........if we're going to raise them, we're going to lose some along the way. Mankind has been domesticating livestock for centuries, and birthing in the wild has gone on for longer than that and none of it is perfect yet...not even with us humans & births even with as much technology, medical advancements,  and experience as we've had in it.

I suggest, you counsel with your vet and perhaps try to prepare for the next one to be at the vets when the time comes.......they can generally do more at their facility than they can 'in the field'.
Animal husbandry is always an ongoing/learning/improving prospect.

Unless you are very confident with the vet you were able to get to come out, try to network with other goat people in your area. You may find another vet even better..or closer.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

greybeard said:


> It is unfortunate things turned out as they did, and I've had it happen with heifer cattle too...as far as losing the newborn..not the momma...or at least not in a lot of years.
> 
> The reality is, that even with everything planned and done 'perfectly' .........if we're going to raise them, we're going to lose some along the way. Mankind has been domesticating livestock for centuries, and birthing in the wild has gone on for longer than that and none of it is perfect yet...not even with us humans & births even with as much technology, medical advancements,  and experience as we've had in it.
> 
> I suggest, you counsel with your vet and perhaps try to prepare for the next one to be at the vets when the time comes.......they can generally do more at their facility than they can 'in the field'.
> Animal husbandry is always an ongoing/learning/improving prospect.
> 
> Unless you are very confident with the vet you were able to get to come out, try to network with other goat people in your area. You may find another vet even better..or closer.


 The issue with the two goats are simple...human stupidity , the breeder keeps all her goats together, the girls got pregnant  first cycle, poor nutrition on a young goat along with being pregnant...just dumb...samantha paid the price for sure. The breeder has offered me a free doe, ...really ? ...i am 66 years old, have had to break a cows pelvis with a hammer and chisle back in  1978 to try to get a calf out (per advice of vet during snow storm and 72 hours of labor)  ended up losing  both cow and calf. I know exactly wher you are comming from, until yesterday, i have been able to save  many animals on my own...samantha was so toxic, and brain fried...such a pathetic  shame. The only good thing i can say is, she had never  never allowed anyone near her till she got here in august, she was fed well here, loved and began to trust me, the last five days of her life she  and i became one... the vet that came was excellent, i will continue to use him if needed, wonderful  young man...he did check amber (pregnant sister) and has given me instructions....the point of all of my rambling on here is, if amber follows her sisters path, i will put her down before i will let it go as far as it did with her sister... lesson learned...you can't  fix what is already gone...i have taken care of 51 end of life patients, two of which were my own parents....no problem.   But a situation like samatha and amber  just is human stupidity.  If she was a wild animal she probably would of done better, we humans interfere  with nature and think we should change things....you probably don't  need to hear exactly what i told breeder about her offer of free doe, but i can assure you she is moving her buck away from the young doe's,  lol...i was very frank with her and graphic images will stay in her brain of the last hour of samanths  life...trust me...thank you for caring  and sharing, GOD BLESS TEXAS, lol


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Please keep us posted on Amber!


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## B&B Happy goats

I'm  trying to stay up to date with everyone, lol, she is fine and out with other goats , i am following vets instructions, getting prepared for hurricane  michael, just got vidio and audio monitor  for goat house, so i have eyes on her , back is out, brain is gone...no stress here lol, ...


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## frustratedearthmother

Dang - you sure have a lot on your plate right now.  Hang in there!


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## Latestarter

North central Florida is a huge area. Hope you're not in the direct path of Michael. Also hope you're not located in a low lying area or right by the coast.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Wow! Sending prayers for all that way.


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## B&B Happy goats

Thank you, we are praying for all in the path of the storm...this is one ugly looking  storm,....i feel for the animals....


----------



## Latestarter

Really hope that you come through this unscathed Barbara, you've already had enough excitement and sadness recently... Costs too I imagine... From the description of your location, you should be far enough east to avoid a direct hit... Seems like you're on the farthest east portion of the potential cone of probability. I think those up by Apalachicola are gonna get a direct hit.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I agree  trees are a concern,  as long as wind stays low...we should be fine....i always prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Our home is under a 300 year old oak tree, had a health check on it so that  should be fine. I'm  going to go to sleep now to get ready for whatever the storm brings, but going to try after storm to help people with animals that need tempoary housing, that is only for animals, lol will keep up dating as thing progress,


----------



## greybeard

B&B Happy goats said:


> We are 28 miles inland from west coast, 3 miles from Suwannee  river


Everyone has to be somewhere and where ever you're at, there you are..

I'm about 75 air miles from the nearest point on the Texas coast, on the banks of the East Fork San Jacinto River.  We have received hurricane related winds in excess of 100mph even this far from the coast.



 

or less detailed..


 

Ike's eye passed within just a few miles of my residence, but Ike was a huge storm. Rita passed about 45 miles to the East of my place,, but Harvey was the real kicker. It came to visit, and like the bad relative, stayed and stayed.

I'm not hard to find and have more than once posted a map right to my house with written directions on this website and several others. 
(This isn't it, but all ya gotta do is look for the place that's shaped like a boot.)


----------



## MiniSilkys

I feel sorry for all those down there with animals as well. Did anyone see all the chickens that were killed in NC's last hurricane? They could not escape the chicken houses. Thousands died. Some people think chickens are just stupid birds but they have personalities as well.


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## babsbag

I lost chickens in a coop fire once and they were all piled up against the door trying to get out. They knew that they were in danger and it was horrible to see the next day. 

Praying for everyone in the path of this storm. Stay safe.


----------



## Bunnylady

@B&B Happy goats praying you stay safe.


----------



## Sheepshape

We're being told over here that the hurricane is imminently due for touchdown.

Praying you and your animals keep safe.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Praying for your safety!


----------



## greybeard

Looks like the worst for surge will be Apalachee Bay.
It is East facing and NOAA says it can expect 13ft surge, above mean high tide.


B&B Happy goats said:


> Thank you for your posting greybeard, you nailed it...thats exactly where we are,



Well, you gave us the only 2 clues needed to get a pretty close grid coordinate fix.
A. 25 miles from coast=a north/south line or longitude.
B.  2 miles from the specified river, (which in this case runs mostly E to W or at least mostly SW) = an East West line/latitude--within a close proximity anyway.  Since it was unknown which side of the river, the closest one possibly could get with the would be 4 miles, +/- 2 miles.
Combined, both 'clues' give us an X & Y axis for any map with names of towns.

Bob Henson, meteorologist has a very good write up this morning on some unique features of this storm, the following being one of them:
_Satellite images of Michael’s evolution on Tuesday night were, in a word, jaw-dropping. A massive blister of thunderstorms (convection) erupted and wrapped around the storm’s eye, which has taken taking a surprisingly long time to solidify. A layer of dry air several miles above the surface being pulled into Michael from the west may have been one of the factors that kept Michael from sustaining a classic, fully closed eyewall (see embedded tweet below). A closed eyewall is normally a prerequisite for a hurricane to intensify robustly, but somehow Michael managed to reach Category 3 status without one._.

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Florida-Panhandle-Bracing-Potential-Category-4-Hit-Michael


----------



## greybeard

B&B Happy goats said:


> You are one cool person, you are like my husband...he always knows what the weather is doing , stays on top of it like you


My interest in weather phenomena notwithstanding, I have been fooled occasionally  and it's usually a doozy when I am.
About 1 year ago from my back porch:


----------



## Bunnylady

B&B Happy goats said:


> I am not worried about us, although it's raining all is looking safer for us than above us



I do not mean to alarm you, or anyone else, just throwing this out there - nowhere within the circulation is truly "safe" when it comes to land falling hurricanes. As the storm encounters land, shear on the rotating bands causes whorls to form within the embedded thunderstorms, which can result in relatively weak (F1 or F2) tornadoes. During Florence, the NWS office in Wilmington spotted rotation within thunderstorms that resulted in them issuing a tornado warning 35 times; surveys of the areas after the storm has confirmed the formation of at least 10 of them. Some of these storms were in areas like New Bern and Goldsboro; 100 miles or more from the point where the storm officially made landfall. Monitor, and pay attention to any warnings in your area - it could save your life! A decade or so ago, the remnants of a storm that went in through the gulf passed through here during the overnight hours a day or more later. There was barely enough left to make a radar signature, but there was enough energy to spin up a weak tornado that tossed some trailers around and killed 3 people in the Castle Hayne area.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

I hope you’re ok! I’m in Tallahassee, so we’ll be getting hit, too.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Green Acres Farm said:


> I hope you’re ok! I’m in Tallahassee, so we’ll be getting hit, too.



Prayers for y’all!!


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## Green Acres Farm

Thank you! It’s supposed to pass over us quickly and I think we’ll be ok.  The goats have above ground, 4-sided shelters so I think they’ll be safe from wind and flooding.


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## greybeard

"quickly" is a realtive term...
With 100mph+ winds extending 25 miles out and minimum hurricane force winds (75mph) extending 45 miles out in all directions, and forward speed after landfall expected to only increase to about 20mph at most until the storm is picked up by the west to east jet, you can expect at least 5 hrs of hurricane force winds anywhere the first part of this sentence holds true. 
I don't think it will quite make it to Cat5 but 919mb is really getting down there tho.


> Hurricane Michael
> Last Updated: 10/10/2018, 12:00:00 PM (Central Daylight Time)
> Location: 29.9 N 85.7 W Movement: NNE at 12 mph Wind: 150 mph Pressure: 919 mb


----------



## greybeard

Be careful of flying and moving debris out there.





This currently....pushing Cat 5 threshold as it makes landfall. 
155mph SUSTAINED winds!!

From NHC/NOAA as of 1:00pm CDT:
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT4+shtml/101836.shtml?


> DISCUSSION AND OUTLOOK
> BULLETIN
> Hurricane Michael Intermediate Advisory Number 16A...Corrected
> NWS National Hurricane Center Miami FL       AL142018
> 100 PM CDT Wed Oct 10 2018
> Corrected pressure in inches in summary block and text
> ...MICHAEL INTENSIFIES AS IT MAKES LANDFALL NEAR MEXICO BEACH
> FLORIDA...
> ...LIFE-THREATENING STORM SURGE...HURRICANE FORCE WINDS...AND HEAVY
> RAINFALL OCCURING OVER THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE...
> SUMMARY OF 100 PM CDT...1800 UTC...INFORMATION
> ----------------------------------------------
> LOCATION...30.0N 85.5W
> ABOUT 5 MI...10 KM NW OF MEXICO BEACH FLORIDA
> ABOUT 20 MI...30 KM SE OF PANAMA CITY FLORIDA
> MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...155 MPH...250 KM/H
> PRESENT MOVEMENT...NNE OR 20 DEGREES AT 14 MPH...22 KM/H
> MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...919 MB...27.14 INCHES
> ----------------------
> Satellite, aircraft, and radar data indicate that the eye of
> Michael is making landfall just northwest of Mexico Beach, Florida.
> At 100 PM CDT (1800 UTC), the eye of Hurricane Michael was located
> near latitude 30.0 North, longitude 85.5 West. Michael is moving
> toward the north-northeast near 14 mph (22 km/h). A turn toward the
> northeast is expected this afternoon or tonight. A motion toward the
> northeast at a faster forward speed is forecast on Thursday through
> Friday night. On the forecast track, the core of Michael will move
> inland across the Florida Panhandle this afternoon, and across
> southeastern Alabama and southwestern Georgia tonight....
> ecent data from NOAA and Air Force Reserve Hurricane Hunter
> aircraft indicate that maximum sustained winds have increased to
> near 155 mph (250 km/h) with higher gusts. Michael is an extremely
> dangerous category 4 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Wind
> Scale. Michael should weaken as it crosses the southeastern United
> States. Michael is forecast to become a post-tropical cyclone on
> Friday, and strengthening is forecast as the system moves over the
> western Atlantic.
> Hurricane-force winds extend outward up to 45 miles (75 km) from
> the center and tropical-storm-force winds extend outward up to 175
> miles (280 km). A wind gust of 130 mph (210 mph) was recently
> reported at a University of Florida/Weatherflow observing site near
> Tyndall Air Force Base before the instrument failed.  A wind gust to
> 129 mph (207 km/h) was reported at the Panama City Airport.
> The latest minimum central pressure based on data from an Air Force
> Reserve reconnaissance aircraft is 919 mb (27.14 inches).
> A minimum pressure of 920 mb was recently reported by a University
> of Florida/Weatherflow observing site near Tyndall Air Force Base.


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## Wehner Homestead

Careful! They’ll be making alternate versions of this one soon!


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## greybeard

If you've never been in one, watch (and listen) to the last 20 minutes of this almost real time landfall video at Panama City Beach.
https://wtop.com/national/2018/10/watch-live-webcams-show-hurricane-michaels-impact/

I have no idea why they keep leaving the door open and trashing their home..but last 3-4 minutes, watch the top of the door closely, as the wind flexes it, and allows light in thru the door facing. 
Tho I think they are beyond foolish for staying, I do hope they survive it.


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## greybeard

Wehner Homestead said:


> Careful! They’ll be making alternate versions of this one soon!


Yes, there are some out there that look real but are not really......I have no idea if that one is genuine or not, but the following one has definitely been proven a fake...from Great Britain.

(You will have to turn the volume up a lot)


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## Latestarter

Green Acres Farm said:


> I hope you’re ok! I’m in Tallahassee, so we’ll be getting hit, too.



We have/had a number of folks from FL here on BYH. They come and go, some stay. I thought (for some reason) that you were in the Clearwater or Orlando area...  Regardless, I hope you fare well in the state capital. From appearances, there will be damage and trees/power lines down, but the storm seems to be picking up speed, (though not weakening very fast), so maybe you won't have to deal with it for quite as long.


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## Green Acres Farm

The eye of the hurricane ended up passing west of us and we’re ok. We have a lot of cleaning to do and several trees down, but it looks like the worst of it is over and the goats are all safe and dry.


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## Green Acres Farm

B&B Happy goats said:


> So happy to hear you and family are safe ! All is well here also


Yay! I’m so glad to hear.


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## greybeard

I've heard from an internet acquaintance that raises cattle about 50 miles N of Pensacola. He's safe, and the house is still there but as he put it "everything looks to be gone".
Must have been really rough for awhile. Glad all here have weathered thru so far.


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## MiniSilkys

I am also glad everyone made it through safely.


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## Ron Bequeath

So sorry to hear about Samantha, having raised goats since i was 18, i have never seen a year like this. I'm 67. And although i was getting pretty cocky about my record after last year and this year I'm almost ready to fold. I have in the last 4 years always tied my bucks to protect and know dates, and now I tie my does. Usually the buck is in another area where does aren't this year after an abortion from low copper. I thought I was watching my kids closely and I always castrate the bucklings on their 12th week religiously. That being said a week ago I noticed that the doeling's utter was swelling, all I can figure was she was bred by brother at 8 weeks. From now on the bands come out at 7 wks. She didn't make it. Counting on next year. Another strange thing this year, my jersey heifer born June 10th came in heat Sept 5th and is due for her Oct heat any day now, looked it up on web and found out that although its not common they can come in after 3rd month, this one push that even earlier. Glad I use AI. Wish I could on the goats, cause not a possibility in this area yet. Now to get back to my point. As a child raising goats, cattle, sheep, rabbits. My father told me that two weeks or more before you know or have an inkling their to birth to start feeding your pregnant stock a 1/4 to 1/2 cup of seed rye, or ground rye, "and they'll just slip right out" did that to the cow watched her 24 7 for 10 days, ready to call vet went in the house for a bite came back out calf was up and dry and she had no problem not to the goats and had to help some. In the past I know some of the goats were early but the kidds passed fine. I would start giving your other goat some rye can't hurt and hopefully will help her pass them. Good luck


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## babsbag

@Ron Bequeath  that is interesting about the rye. I will have about 50-60 does to freshen next spring and it would sure be nice if they just "slipped right out". I'll have to try it. 

Glad that you are all safe; I can't even imagine going through a hurricane or tornado.


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## babsbag

@Ron Bequeath  that is interesting about the rye. I will have about 50-60 does to freshen next spring and it would sure be nice if they just "slipped right out". I'll have to try it. 

Glad that you are all safe; I can't even imagine going through a hurricane or tornado.


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## Ridgetop

Just came on to make sure that all you BYHers in Florida are safe.  Glad to see you made it through without losing any people or animals.  Still a bad storm even though the worst is over for you.  Now the clean up.  

@Ron Bequeath interesting about the rye.  I wonder where I can get some.  Rye like in rye bread, not rye grass seed, right?  Maybe a health store?  Or can I order it on line.  If it is crop seed, probably can't get it locally.  I will check on it.  If it is only 1/4 cup serving, it shouldn't take too much for my 4 ewes if I have to order it on line.


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## Dee Mini Pigs

Hi everyone, Dee from mini pigs Australia, thinking of you all, I have some idea what you are all going through, as I live in  an area on North Queensland, that cops a cyclone or two every year, we are now approaching that time. When times are tough, we  all need to all stick together, in the physical way but mentally as well. Stay strong and keep looking after our wonderful animals, as I know you all will. Lots of love and stay safe.


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## B&B Happy goats

Ron Bequeath said:


> So sorry to hear about Samantha, having raised goats since i was 18, i have never seen a year like this. I'm 67. And although i was getting pretty cocky about my record after last year and this year I'm almost ready to fold. I have in the last 4 years always tied my bucks to protect and know dates, and now I tie my does. Usually the buck is in another area where does aren't this year after an abortion from low copper. I thought I was watching my kids closely and I always castrate the bucklings on their 12th week religiously. That being said a week ago I noticed that the doeling's utter was swelling, all I can figure was she was bred by brother at 8 weeks. From now on the bands come out at 7 wks. She didn't make it. Counting on next year. Another strange thing this year, my jersey heifer born June 10th came in heat Sept 5th and is due for her Oct heat any day now, looked it up on web and found out that although its not common they can come in after 3rd month, this one push that even earlier. Glad I use AI. Wish I could on the goats, cause not a possibility in this area yet. Now to get back to my point. As a child raising goats, cattle, sheep, rabbits. My father told me that two weeks or more before you know or have an inkling their to birth to start feeding your pregnant stock a 1/4 to 1/2 cup of seed rye, or ground rye, "and they'll just slip right out" did that to the cow watched her 24 7 for 10 days, ready to call vet went in the house for a bite came back out calf was up and dry and she had no problem not to the goats and had to help some. In the past I know some of the goats were early but the kidds passed fine. I would start giving your other goat some rye can't hurt and hopefully will help her pass them. Good luck


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## Wehner Homestead

@Pastor Dave and @promiseacres and @Bunnylady are the three rabbit members that come to mind. All are quite knowledgeable. Posting in the rabbit section may also get comments from others that I didn’t think of.


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## MiniSilkys

Ron Bequeath said:


> So sorry to hear about Samantha, having raised goats since i was 18, i have never seen a year like this. I'm 67. And although i was getting pretty cocky about my record after last year and this year I'm almost ready to fold. I have in the last 4 years always tied my bucks to protect and know dates, and now I tie my does. Usually the buck is in another area where does aren't this year after an abortion from low copper. I thought I was watching my kids closely and I always castrate the bucklings on their 12th week religiously. That being said a week ago I noticed that the doeling's utter was swelling, all I can figure was she was bred by brother at 8 weeks. From now on the bands come out at 7 wks. She didn't make it. Counting on next year. Another strange thing this year, my jersey heifer born June 10th came in heat Sept 5th and is due for her Oct heat any day now, looked it up on web and found out that although its not common they can come in after 3rd month, this one push that even earlier. Glad I use AI. Wish I could on the goats, cause not a possibility in this area yet. Now to get back to my point. As a child raising goats, cattle, sheep, rabbits. My father told me that two weeks or more before you know or have an inkling their to birth to start feeding your pregnant stock a 1/4 to 1/2 cup of seed rye, or ground rye, "and they'll just slip right out" did that to the cow watched her 24 7 for 10 days, ready to call vet went in the house for a bite came back out calf was up and dry and she had no problem not to the goats and had to help some. In the past I know some of the goats were early but the kidds passed fine. I would start giving your other goat some rye can't hurt and hopefully will help her pass them. Good luck


Ron, just be careful about banding too early. If done before the urethra has fully developed it can cause wethers to have calculi stones. It is best to separate and keep doing it as you always have at 12 weeks.


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## Ron Bequeath

MiniSilkys said:


> Ron, just be careful about banding too early. If done before the urethra has fully developed it can cause wethers to have calculi stones. It is best to separate and keep doing it as you always have at 12 weeks.


Thanks up grading barn just make another pen.


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## Ron Bequeath

Ridgetop said:


> Just came on to make sure that all you BYHers in Florida are safe.  Glad to see you made it through without losing any people or animals.  Still a bad storm even though the worst is over for you.  Now the clean up.
> 
> @Ron Bequeath interesting about the rye.  I wonder where I can get some.  Rye like in rye bread, not rye grass seed, right?  Maybe a health store?  Or can I order it on line.  If it is crop seed, probably can't get it locally.  I will check on it.  If it is only 1/4 cup serving, it shouldn't take too much for my 4 ewes if I have to order it on line.


Grain rye seed but this year the feed store was out so check internet and it wouldnt get to me in time so i used ground bread
rye on the cow. I'm thinking of planting a 2000 sq ft plot. Of non gmo this coming year. Should give me enough to last the year. Dad said could use it on all types of animals haven't tried it on chickens though, wonder if it would work on sheep, know they had sheep before my time, and he learned from granddad.


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## Ron Bequeath

B&B Happy goats said:


> Any one raise new zeland rabbits ?.....looking for hints, tips and warnings....have two does, one buck....all seperated....no funny bunny business till goat issue has passed. Thanks


Have nz white and have a good network here in NW PA , if i can help let me know.


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## Ron Bequeath

B&B Happy goats said:


> Oh thank you so much, what is the best and safest age to breed them in a mostly humid climate, although is does get cooler here in the winter...the rabbit hutches we built are 36 " x 34" per rabbit...with 4 feet off rhe ground, shaded area and wire mesh on three side and solid roof with over hang. They also have area to get off the wire, each rabbit is five months old, and we are building each a inside hutch shelter / kit area....two doe's,  one buck...all whites with pink eyes...breeding for pet and to eat (although i have never eaten  one...yet, lol) thanks in advance for any info ! ...barbara


I would suggest 8 mo., the more size on the doe better to carry large litters, cage size is great, i would suggest keeping grass hay in pens daily along with pellets, 18% if you can find them. I can't locally, so substitute, found a source for raw peanuts so am going to try them, as a child use to have kit hutches built to cages and now just use tupperware 4 or 5 inch trays, (not a dealer), I like the height off the ground however I  just put double wire 4" apart on bottom of cage. Learned this when first raising rabbit and dogs would bite off my rabbits legs after pulling them through 1"sq holes. Only happened twice after i sat up the whole next night with my rifle and didnt get them.  I start to put does to buck after the heat of summer is gone, sept or oct. I'm in zone 5 NW PA. As for eating, to me the meat tastes cleaner than chicken, I would suggest a stew, I  like a simple hausenphefer made with carrots, celery, onions, garlic,  creme of chicken soup, grilled rabbit chunks with the drippings added to the soup an optional a cup of favorite beer. If the thought doesn't bother you to cook rabbit whole than roast, cook like fried chicken, or any other way you cook chicken, a friend from PR made a rabbit for me and used powdered jalipeno peppers with chicken spice , i can't eat hot foods but this was great. Back to breeding i try to get a litter every 4 months with a 2 month break over summer. Don't forget to add bacon or some fat to your cooking because rabbits are almost fat free. Hope this helps.


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## MiniSilkys

Ron Bequeath said:


> Thanks up grading barn just make another pen.


I am in the process of upgrading myself. This years rain has made everything wash out, and my fences are trying to fall as they are now unlevel.


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## MiniSilkys

B&B Happy goats said:


> Oh thank you so much, what is the best and safest age to breed them in a mostly humid climate, although is does get cooler here in the winter...the rabbit hutches we built are 36 " x 34" per rabbit...with 4 feet off rhe ground, shaded area and wire mesh on three side and solid roof with over hang. They also have area to get off the wire, each rabbit is five months old, and we are building each a inside hutch shelter / kit area....two doe's,  one buck...all whites with pink eyes...breeding for pet and to eat (although i have never eaten  one...yet, lol) thanks in advance for any info ! ...barbara


I love tame rabbit. Rabbit stew is the best. I also like fried rabbit with gravy. Yum. I used to have rabbits in the same pen as my chickens, goats, and ducks. They loved the open space to run. Although it makes the meat tougher. They even made their own underground burrow.  I don't have anymore right now though. My last one learned how to climb 5 ft fences. LOL. Silly rabbit. After catching him 10 or more times I decided to let him live wild. I think he is still around here somewhere though. I will know if I start seeing blond rabbits running around in the spring.


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## MiniSilkys

Have you ever killed a rabbit?


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## Ron Bequeath

MiniSilkys said:


> Have you ever killed a rabbit?


Hope my response reaches you, not sure how to use this system yet. Yes, many, I usually use one of three methods unless hunting, although I've seen 4 methods myself. First I give thanks to our creator for His provision and the life I'm about to take
Than 1st method: with a very, very sharp knife remove the head with a cut on both sides of the neck takes 2 - 3 seconds then drop in cone to bleed out. 2nd method: hold rabbit by hind legs extending body with a quick twist of neck breaking spinal cord and then quickly remove head. Haven't used in quite a while so don't use now. 3rd method: hold rabbit by scuff of back and with a blunt tool, I use an old hammer handle kept just for that purpose, hit the rabbit on the head forcefully just in front of ears, immediately removing head. Some folks hit behind ears but I have found that tends to bruise the meat. The 4th method I do not like because I prefer to keep rabbit close to me: place rabbit on ground, place a broom handle behind ears, step on broom handle and give quick upward pull on rabbit. Definitely not my favorite. Hope this helps.


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## B&B Happy goats

Planned on trying the breaking neck method....although I haven't even started breeding them yet, I would thank them before I did that though. And would do more than two at a time so I don't know who is on the dinner menu...thank you for sharing your thoughts.,.


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## B&B Happy goats

MiniSilkys said:


> Have you ever killed a rabbit?


Not yet minisilkys....I am going to raise them to sell and for our use if needed...I am one who pepares for the worst and hopes for the best.where we live, going to the store takes 40 minutes one way...hate to catch myself in a situation where I was dependant on Wal Mart for to survive.   I wanted to reply yes, i killed BUGS BUNNY, , that cartoon drove me crazy


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## Ridgetop

The best way is to breed both your does starting at 8 months old within a day of each other.  If you wait until they are a year or older they do not breed as well.  Once they are producing litters, keep them breeding by producing a litter every 3 or 4 months like Ron Bequeath says.  The does will kindle within a day or two of each other.  That way if you have a problem with one litter you can put surviving kits in nest box with other litter and mom will foster.  Then breed the litterless rabbit immediately back. 

Don't worry about killing 2 at a time.  Rabbits are not like chickens running around that you catch a rooster when you want a chicken.  You need to butcher the entire litter around 8-10 weeks or the meat gets tough.  If the weather is hot, DH butchers at night so there are no flies.  DH lines a trash can with a giant trash bag, places it under the skinning hooks, pulls the hides off into the bag, and dresses out the rabbit into the bag.  Then it is easily tied up for disposal.  Kill, cut off head, and paws, skin, and dress each one then place carcasses into cooler of ice water.  Once you have butchered all of them, take cooler up to house, rinse and cut carcasses into pieces, or freeze whole.  We keep the livers and kidneys to eat.  DH throws them into a separate bowl of ice water.  Rabbit livers are large and very sweet.  I fry bacon, sautee onions, dredge the livers and kidneys in seasoned flour, and sautee them.  Make gravy and simmer.  YUMMY!  

Actually, we prefer to eat mac and cheese on butchering day.  LOL


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## MiniSilkys

B&B Happy goats said:


> Not yet minisilkys....I am going to raise them to sell and for our use if needed...I am one who pepares for the worst and hopes for the best.where we live, going to the store takes 40 minutes one way...hate to catch myself in a situation where I was dependant on Wal Mart for to survive.   I wanted to reply yes, i killed BUGS BUNNY, , that cartoon drove me crazy


My grandmother used to breed rabbits for meat. She did the killing but says she can't do it anymore. She says because if you don't hit them right and kill them, they scream like a baby. We don't kill goats for the same reason.


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## Ridgetop

Yes, you have to do it quick.  All meat animals deserve a quick and painless death.  I take my lambs to the butcher who kills, butchers, cuts and wraps.  Butchering yourself is a lot of work and I prefer not to do it myself.  If I hunted, it would be different.  I would have a hanging shed where we would do the job.  Rabbits are easy though.  I have done many myself.  The worst job I had to do though was when we had a dog attack on our rabbitry (pre LGD) and I had to destroy about 20 rabbits who had been mutilated but were still alive.  DH usually has no problem butchering our rabbits for meat but these were his breeding stock, they were his pets, most of them champions.  I went down and did it for him so he didn't have to.  That dog attack took out 30 generations of planned breeding - the equivalent of 15 years of large livestock breeding.


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## goatgurl

just finished reading about your loosing you doe and her kid.  i'm so sorry for your loss.  some people with animals are so irresponsible  and you had to pay the price.  
I raise meat rabbits for my own use and I do everything form caring to killing to preserving.  i'm 68 years old and have pretty bad arthritis in my hands and wrists and don't feel I have the strength to hold one by the feet and hit them hard enough to break their neck and i'd die if I hit one and it started screaming.  would not ever touch another one.  I have a small handmade cage that one rabbit fits in snugly and I put a single bunny at a time in it.  I purchase 'no load' 22cal shells, just have the primer and powder but no bullet so it has enough power to kill neatly without splattering stuff.  works just fine for me.  a full load 22 was a bit of over kill.  this has worked well for me for several years.  good luck with your rabbit adventure.


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## MiniSilkys

Ridgetop said:


> Yes, you have to do it quick.  All meat animals deserve a quick and painless death.  I take my lambs to the butcher who kills, butchers, cuts and wraps.  Butchering yourself is a lot of work and I prefer not to do it myself.  If I hunted, it would be different.  I would have a hanging shed where we would do the job.  Rabbits are easy though.  I have done many myself.  The worst job I had to do though was when we had a dog attack on our rabbitry (pre LGD) and I had to destroy about 20 rabbits who had been mutilated but were still alive.  DH usually has no problem butchering our rabbits for meat but these were his breeding stock, they were his pets, most of them champions.  I went down and did it for him so he didn't have to.  That dog attack took out 30 generations of planned breeding - the equivalent of 15 years of large livestock breeding.


That is so terrible. How was your set-up at the time? I have just found out what the culprit was that killed five kittens and two chickens. It was a bobcat. There were so many cat tracks that we did not realize. I lost my favorite kittens to it.


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## Latestarter

Kudos for doing the "right" thing and giving these poor animals a fighting chance! I doubt you'll catch much if any grief from folks here. By all means share some pics if you'd like recommendations or help in getting them back to what they should/could be. I'm assuming they are all does? Mine will eat dried leaves before hay as well, even though it's expensive, high quality hay. Give them time, they'll catch on.


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## Wehner Homestead

You are taking them in properly. Keep them quarantined. The only thing that I would caution you on is the importance of testing for CAE, CL, and Johne's to avoid contamination of your existing herd (that should be tested if they already haven't.) Passing on these things to more goats can be prevented. I'd go into more detail but it's been discussed on numerous occasions on the forum. Just do a search. 

You may also look into starting a journal. This would allow you to have an ongoing record of your occurrences on your homestead. Several of us have them already and it might be something that you'd like to be able to have as a running record.


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## Wehner Homestead

You'll persevere and get them there! You've read my Blossom's story.

I can't imagine being that greedy for the milk! (And that's coming from someone that milks my goats for the benefit of my medically fragile daughter. We keep more goats so that there is enough to go around. We also dam raise and still manage to get enough milk for us. JS.)


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## Latestarter

Ummm The brown one doesn't look all that bad to my untrained eye...   I mean her coat looks full and shiny. She may be a little light weight wise, but that should be relatively easy to fix over time. I think I can barely make out one of her rear hooves, and yes, they definitely will need continuing care to get them "right"... Otherwise, She doesn't look all that bad to me at all...


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## Latestarter

B&B... you should really consider starting a journal rather than posting all this stuff in the emergency section. That way you can have all your ongoing stuff in one place concerning all your posts rather than posting non pertinent stuff to the emergency thread in the emergency section of the site. It's easy to do, just go to: https://www.backyardherds.com/forums/members-backyardherds-journals.18/

Top right, click on "Post New Thread", create a name for your journal That starts with your screen name, type out your opening post, and post it, and you'll be rolling! I among many others will absolutely follow along with you!


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## Latestarter

Gosh B&B... I'm terribly sorry that I made that recommendation now... Didn't mean for you to go and delete everything that you had posted... 

Once you have your journal established, if you post the name of it here, perhaps you can ask one of our excellent moderators like @Sumi if she'd be kind enough to resurrect those deleted posts and then transfer all of these thread pages done after the initial emergency over to your journal for you.


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## Finnie

B&B Happy goats said:


> Thank you, just deleted  all the non emergency posts i had and will start journal. ..i love things that make life easier, thank you again !


Yikes! I'm glad I followed this from the beginning so I didn't miss the deleted posts. Guess I need to go find your journal now to keep up to date.


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