# Thinking of switching from full-size goats to pygmies



## Backyardherder (Apr 29, 2013)

Hi there,

We currently have two quite large-sized Saanen cross does. We also have some trees on our lot, planted by our landlord. I try to keep the goats off the trees, but I just don't always succeed - there's always the way to pasture, the way back from pasture, and it's amazing how quickly goats can stand on their back feet and chew off even the topmost branches of a 7-year-old lemon tree. They are taller than me when they stand on their rear feet! 

Last time our landlord visited, he wasn't at all happy with the way the trees looked.

Personally, I don't care much about gardening, but since we aren't on our own property yet, we've got to appease our landlord. 

I was thinking... if we had pygmy goats, perhaps they wouldn't be tall enough to reach tree branches? I always thought pygmies aren't worth milking, but I researched this a bit and it actually appears that 2 pygmy does would give enough milk for a small family like ours. Currently I often have more milk than I know what to do with - and if I take one day off cheesemaking, milk just takes over my fridge. 

I heard pygmies often have kidding problems, is that true?

What do you think? Will it make a difference if we switch from full-size goats to pygmies, as concerns trees?


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## Southern by choice (Apr 29, 2013)

Pygmy Goats are MEAT GOATS. The sad attempt to push them as dairy is  not good. Yes there are some who may milk them but if you want a small dairy breed go with a Nigerian Dwarf because they are dairy goats.


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## Pearce Pastures (Apr 29, 2013)

Pygmy goats are considered meat goats by most but are accepted into some dairy registries.  There are milking lines of pygmy goats, and while our own pygmy is not from one, we milk her along with our NDs and she gives us about 12-14 ounces per milking.  If you are wanting milk though, I would encourage you to consider the ND over pygmy because they are a more established milk goat, are great producers, and they tend to have fewer kidding complications.


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## Backyardherder (Apr 29, 2013)

Thanks for the replies! Yes, I know NDs are good milkers, as compared to pygmies, but it seems they can't be obtained where we live, so it's either a pygmy or a full-sized goat. 

Can pygmies kill trees, though?


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## elevan (Apr 29, 2013)

Pygmies most certainly could kill trees if they have access to them.

They are good kidders with generally very few problems in that regard.

You can milk them but if it's milk that you're after, I agree get NDs if you can.  I have pygmies and am a proponent for milking them but do not recommend them as family milkers.  If pygmies are all that is available to you then you'll need 2-3 for every 1 ND in comparison.


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## Pearce Pastures (Apr 29, 2013)

Have you tried maybe Hoobly.com or Craigslist?  Or you could also look up breeders in the NDGA registry who may have something to offer you or could steer you to someone closer to you.


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## goatboy1973 (Apr 29, 2013)

You might try Kinder goats which are a mini Nubian goat (about 1/2 the size of a full Nubian).


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## Backyardherder (Apr 30, 2013)

We live in Israel. The breeds that are available here are Saanen, Alpine, Nubian, Shami (Damascus/Cyprus goat), any crosses of the above, and pygmies. 

So, the choice is pretty slim really. 

Our options are:

1. Do a lot of fencing at our own expense. 
2. Switch to pygmies (I know they are goats and WILL eat anything within their reach, but they also *are* shorter, so presumably, they won't be able to reach beyond the lower branches?!) 
3. Opt out of goat keeping altogether. 

I really am at a loss as to what to do. The problem is, those trees are really sprawled all over the property, so it's not a matter of fencing in a couple of trees. If we don't find a way to appease our landlord, we might have to give up goat-keeping altogether, for the time being.


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## Pearce Pastures (Apr 30, 2013)

Oh yeah, I forgot about that  

If you can find an Alpine/Pygmy, you could get your smaller size, have a more suitable milking quantity, and the cross might offer you teats that are easier to milk.  

On the tree front though, all goats will nibble at bark but if it is the branches they are going after, being short might help  .


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## Backyardherder (Apr 30, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> If you can find an Alpine/Pygmy, you could get your smaller size, have a more suitable milking quantity, and the cross might offer you teats that are easier to milk.


I didn't think of that! I'll be on the lookout.


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## Backyardherder (Apr 30, 2013)

Oh, and just thought I'd mention that until we got our goats, our landlord's chief complaint against us was that we don't do enough weeding on the property. LOL... well, now there's no way he can say the place is overgrown... the goats have taken care of it all! But they also got his trees. :/

By the way, our goats have never tried to eat bark, only leaves and young branches.


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## ragdollcatlady (Apr 30, 2013)

Not suggesting you get out of goats...(as an addict myself, I would never)...but what about sheep? might they be more inclined to eat the weeds and leave the trees?  I think they also like the leaves but maybe not as stubborn about trying to eat them?  Or could you us a leash to walk them in and out?

Every morning when I walk Reese out to the pen after milking, she takes a long way around to try and steal some avocado leaves..... even when they are eaten so high she can't reach....


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## Backyardherder (May 1, 2013)

ragdollcatlady said:
			
		

> Not suggesting you get out of goats...(as an addict myself, I would never)...but what about sheep?


It's true that sheep, unlike goats, graze more than browse, but our terrain is better suited for goats. If you saw it, you'd immediately understand why  We hardly found a flat patch to build the goat shed and chicken coop! It's rocks, rocks, rocks all around, and there are places where I can barely climb, but the goats have no trouble whatsoever... they just leap up and down effortlessly. They have been with us almost a year now, and I never gave them a hoof trim - none was needed. Their hooves look perfectly manicured from climbing up and down all those rocks every day!

And, not to offend any sheep lovers, but goats just have a special charm to me...


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## TheBanditQueen (May 1, 2013)

Pygmies are definitely not as hard on trees as full sized goats. We have a small orchard started, and what we did was take cattle panels and bend one in a circle around each young tree and wire it together.  But when we had some Alpines on the place, they could easily put their feet on the panels and reach their heads over and eat the leaves.  So we got some Nigerian Dwarfs and some Pygmies.  They are too short to reach over the cattle panels, but too big (when they get a few months old) to slip through the squares in the wire.  The trees haven't been damaged since. 

One goat book I read mentioned wrapping the trunks with some sort of mesh or wire (chickenwire maybe? I can't recall the exact details so may be getting it wrong) just in case they did try to eat the bark.  Ours have access to a lot of woody brush and shrubby wild trees, and I haven't seen them go for the bark.

Overall, the miniatures were the best all around package for what we needed.  We could keep goats and have our trees safe, too.  A crossbreed does sound like a worthwhile idea for milking, though.


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## Backyardherder (May 1, 2013)

I wish I could get NDs here... oh well. Will have to keep looking for the perfect goats!


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## TheBanditQueen (May 1, 2013)

Don't worry, you'll find the right ones for you! I was charmed by the Nigerians because they come in all kinds of color patterns. We have one that looks like a tiny panda bear, black and white with blue eyes, some blondies, and a lovely coffee-and-brown-and-white one. They are so beautiful.  Our Pygmies are sort of dun colored with black feet and ears, and black stripes on their backs. Not as colorful, but I like them because they look like little deer. They look sort of like wild goats, which is really pretty. But if you found a Pygmy crossed with some other large breed, I bet you would get some interesting colors too.


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## Backyardherder (May 12, 2013)

Well, we did it! 

We had a lot of problems with our goats last week... they escaped several times and destroyed other people's trees, I was running a high fever and was all over the place chasing them instead of resting in bed, and so we decided to take the plunge and, for now, keep pygmies, and in the future when we have our own place invest in strong fencing and keep some larger breed for milk as well.

(I realize we won't get much milk, if any, from our new pygmies, but initially we didn't even think about milk when we wanted goats... we wanted them to help solve our weed problem, and because they are just cute!)

Anyhow, we traded our dairy goats (who went to a very good home, together) for two pygmy does, some cash, and some Brahma eggs for our incubator. I hope it works out the way we planned (less upkeep, less feed costs, less damage if they do escape). They are very adorable. I will post a separate thread about our plans to breed them.


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## TheBanditQueen (May 12, 2013)

Backyardherder said:
			
		

> Well, we did it!
> 
> We had a lot of problems with our goats last week... they escaped several times and destroyed other people's trees, I was running a high fever and was all over the place chasing them instead of resting in bed, and so we decided to take the plunge and, for now, keep pygmies, and in the future when we have our own place invest in strong fencing and keep some larger breed for milk as well.
> 
> ...


  Yay! Best of luck to you. I will be very interested to hear about how it goes with the breeding (and how it goes with your Brahmas!!!).


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## Backyardherder (May 19, 2013)

This is Peanut.

Raisin, her sister, looks just like her.

But... here's the downside! They like to eat tree BARK  ... something our old goats never did... and you do know the quickest way to kill a tree is to strip it off bark! 

We'll need to keep a very, very close eye on them.


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## TheBanditQueen (May 20, 2013)

Cutie pie!!!


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## goatboy1973 (May 20, 2013)

Good lookin' goat. Very healthy looking and gorgeous black shiny coat.


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## Backyardherder (May 21, 2013)

goatboy1973 said:
			
		

> Good lookin' goat. Very healthy looking and gorgeous black shiny coat.


When I first saw them, I was reminded of a wee black kitten I once found and rescued. She had just this sort of shiny black coat.


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