# ADGA paperwork issue



## Ferguson K (Aug 8, 2016)

Long story short, the buckling a bought a while back (ND) was tattoed when we got him, but she didn't submit his paperwork. I thoughtyou had to wait on the paperwork to comeback in to tattoo, but I may be wrong? 

They shot back his paperwork saying the tattoo belongs to another member, which is correct, it belongs to the breeder. I sent them the picture of her being registered to the tattoo. They sent back and told me I still couldn't keep his tattoo, and recommended I add a letter. That's fine. I added the letter they told me to on his tail webbing.

Is this because he was tattoo'd by the breeder and it belongs to her not me, when I am the one who submitted the paperwork?


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 8, 2016)

Did they not give you the application for registration with the transfer section filled out and signed by them?
Most goats that I sell I have not already registered
I provide the buyer the application for registration filled out and there is a section wher you transfer ownwrrship
at the same time

Never had the problem you are encountering


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## Hens and Roos (Aug 8, 2016)

Did the breeder you purchase from, give you a bill of sale?  I know when we bought our buck, we were given a bill of sale listing his information.

@OneFineAcre  or others might know better


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 8, 2016)

Most likely, the breeder was using a tattoo that, with ADGA, is registered to a different breeder. I had that problem with 2 bucks I bought from a herd that wasn't registered in ADGA. The tattoos were already being used by another breeder that ADGA had on file, so I added the letter to the tail web to solve the problem.

For my own tattoos, I checked with both ADGA and AGS at the same time I joined, to be sure both would accept the same combo.

Shouldn't have anything to do with you submitting the paperwork. I give applications to new owners all the time. I fill in the breeder info and animal info, the new owner adds the rest of the animals name (the breeders herd name is the first part of the name of kids born on their farm) and their own info and submits it with payment.

Also for dairy goats, I am of the understanding that the tattoos are supposed to be on the animals before you submit the paperwork.


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 8, 2016)

When we got Ginger she was only registered with AGS
When we applied to register her with ADGA her LF was already taken by another member so we had to add a Q to her tail web


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## Ferguson K (Aug 8, 2016)

AGS accepted her tattoo, but ADGA did not. I have lost the copy of her ADGA tattoo certification.

This is in his left ear.

She signed a bill of transfer and his "birth certificate" paper both. I sent both of those in. When I called ADGA I left a message, hoping to find out if her tattoo expired and was grabbed up by another member.

They also dropped her herd name off, and he's now just "The Hollar Too". He was GreenwoodAcre The Hollar Too. They sent back originally and said the herd name did not exist. Which doesnt make sense because all of her goats were branded with this name.

I will be tattooing a few this weekend that I haven't yet for their upcoming show, and I will add the "Q" to his tail at that time. Then all is well with him.

Could her membership have run out and she didn't realize? She said everything was PIF through September and it's only August, this has been a battle since July.It feels like his paperwork will never be right. 

First was his ears were missing, sent it back in.

Got a letter back sayingthey corrected his name as the herd name was... missing? I don't remember and I already sent it back with corrections.

Third time said his tattoo belonged to another member and they gave me a letter and location so the process could be completed. Just dropped that back in the mail.

Lyra had similar issues with her herd name. She's just DA Lyra instead of CloverfieldGoats DA Lyra.


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## Ferguson K (Aug 8, 2016)

AGS accepted everything no problem, I have to submit a name change and add a tattoo when ADGA is all settled.


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## babsbag (Aug 8, 2016)

The first goats I bought I had to add  a Q to their tattoo as the breeders membership had expired and therefore her tattoo couldn't be used. But her herd name was still used so ???

Technically you aren't supposed to tattoo until the registration has been accepted but I always do them when I sell them and just fill out the application and transfer the ownership. I guess if I ever make a mistake on the tattoo  letter or number it will be a problem.


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## Ferguson K (Aug 8, 2016)

babsbag said:


> Technically you aren't supposed to tattoo until the registration has been accepted



That's what i thought


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## Southern by choice (Aug 8, 2016)

I am of the understanding you do tattoo prior to... On the application you fill that out and goats are to be tattooed before being sold... I guess I should look in the rule book.


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## babsbag (Aug 9, 2016)

I stand corrected...the great and powerful @Southern by choice obviously has a better memory than I and she is correct. 

ADGA Article VII of the Bylaws

_It is required that all goats presented for registry or recordation be tattooed before the application is made. 
_
One of the nice things about registering them online is that you know immediately if the tattoos are correct. I have accidentally assigned duplicate numbers in the same year. Glad I hadn't actually done the tattoo.


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 9, 2016)

The AGS certificate just means that AGS has accepted that herd name and tattoo and they are assigned to your friend in THEIR book. The tattoos are probably already assigned to another person in the ADGA books and therefore are unable to be used for your friends herd.

As for the "THE (goats name here)" instead of "Herd name (goats name here)".... ADGA will only allow your herd name at the start of the goats name, if you have paid them for the use of and they have approved the herd name through themselves. The herd name might already be in use by an ADGA member or she may not have asked and paid for the use of that name. 

I like AGS better as the rules are simpler and easier to understand. I generally reregister with ADGA after completing my AGS certificates, since ADGA is so much more complicated.


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## Ferguson K (Aug 9, 2016)

So, they would only have the herd name if the breeder had registered them then I transferred? Instead of me t registering them for the first time, both goats in question were purchased at weaning.

Lyra had no issues except the loss of her breeders herd name.


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## babsbag (Aug 9, 2016)

She had to submit the paperwork or give it to you filled out with a transfer. I am the breeder, I am also the one submitting it for registration, and then I transfer it to the new owner and they get the papers from ADGA. So as the breeder on the ADGA registration application my name goes in #10 and #11, and then I fill out and sign #12 when I sell a kid that has not been registered.


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## Ferguson K (Aug 9, 2016)

I only had one paper, the "transfer" section was signed on both. Also sent in bills of sale. 

At least I'll know for next time.

Does this mean when I submit the paperwork for the buckling I should send more than just the service memo?


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## Ferguson K (Aug 9, 2016)

Clarifying, this buckling:




 

Not Lyra or Hollar.


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## babsbag (Aug 9, 2016)

Is this the paper the breeder gave you?


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## Ferguson K (Aug 9, 2016)

Yes, it did.

Section 10, 11, 12 filled out by both breeders in question.
Also received an ADGA "transfer" paper for both goats.
Also received bill of sale on both goats.

All three papers sent in at time of registration.

The buck, "The Hollar Too" is the one who had three rejections.

The doeling, "The DA Lyra" just wasn't approved to have the heard name.

The buck's Dam and Sire are both triple registered, as he will be. His breeder was recognized by AGS, ADGA, and NDGA. Pretty sure she was the same under all three registries. His tattoo was rejected, so I added a "Q", but that doesn't tell me why his herd name was also rejected from his paperwork?

The doeling was in the same boat. Everything except her herd name was accepted.


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## babsbag (Aug 9, 2016)

I never send in a service memo as I own the buck too so you don't need one.  The breeder filled out the tattoo information, and had her herd name on the application?  

Is the doeling from the same breeder? Same tattoo?


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## babsbag (Aug 9, 2016)

Ferguson K said:


> So, they would only have the herd name if the breeder had registered them then I transferred? Instead of me t registering them for the first time, both goats in question were purchased at weaning.
> 
> Lyra had no issues except the loss of her breeders herd name.



If the breeder registered a herd name with ADGA then it would go before the kid's name as she owned the dam at the time of breeding; it wouldn't matter who submitted the papers as long as the breeder signed the application in the correct places and transferred them to do you.  So perhaps the breeder never registered a herd name with ADGA???


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 9, 2016)

ragdollcatlady said:


> As for the "THE (goats name here)" instead of "Herd name (goats name here)".... *ADGA will only allow your herd name at the start of the goats name, if you have paid them for the use of and they have approved the herd name through themselves.* The herd name might already be in use by an ADGA member or she may not have asked and paid for the use of that name.


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## babsbag (Aug 9, 2016)

There is a Greenwood Acres herd name in ADGA but no goats registered with it since 1991 and no Nigis. I would say she never registered that name


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## Ferguson K (Aug 9, 2016)

The buckling and doeling are from two separate states, two seperate breeders.

I'm guessing I'm both cases it's not improbable their herd named weren't registered.

They are the only two I have had issues with.


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## babsbag (Aug 9, 2016)

What was the herd name for the doeling?


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## Ferguson K (Aug 9, 2016)

Cloverhill Goats


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## babsbag (Aug 10, 2016)

Well there is THE CLOVER HILLS GOATS and CLOVER HILLS ND and CLOVER HILLS FARM. All of them have nigis registered in the last 3 years. I don't know who owns the herd name though.


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## Hens and Roos (Aug 10, 2016)

babsbag said:


> Well there is THE CLOVER HILLS GOATS and CLOVER HILLS ND and CLOVER HILLS FARM. All of them have nigis registered in the last 3 years. I don't know who owns the herd name though.



the owner/membership name would be listed in the 2016 ADGA membership directory


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 10, 2016)

This is an off shoot but if you have a doe registered NOA with ADGA can it be registered under AGS as well or no because it is a NOA?


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## Goat Whisperer (Aug 10, 2016)

I don't think AGS allows grades or NOA's.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 10, 2016)

i wasnt sure because it says "any" goat from ADGA and CGS...Guess its somthing to figure out down the road.


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## babsbag (Aug 10, 2016)

Hens and Roos said:


> the owner/membership name would be listed in the 2016 ADGA membership directory



For some reason I haven't seen one of those in years. I suspect that I am to access it online but have never tried.


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## Hens and Roos (Aug 10, 2016)

babsbag said:


> For some reason I haven't seen one of those in years. I suspect that I am to access it online but have never tried.



we received ours in the mail this spring I think kind of just had it sitting off to the side since then.


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## Ferguson K (Aug 10, 2016)

I'll dig through the one i got with the membership package


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