# All your natural Mastitis treatments *Update pg 4*



## FlightsofFancy (Dec 9, 2009)

I have a doe with a precocious udder, that may have mastitis. I am unable to get a good milk sample to do an accurate CMT test. However, what I got tested suspicious. 
I think she may be bred (only about 2 weeks along), so would like to try a couple days of natural therapy before diving in with the "Big Guns". What natural therapies have you seen work?


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## mully (Dec 9, 2009)

Tea tree oil ...just rub around the tip of the teat. I use a little peroxide first, dry and apply the oil.


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## freemotion (Dec 9, 2009)

Oh, dear, please keep us all informed of how this goes..... :/


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## Beekissed (Dec 9, 2009)

Here's a few interesting links that may help you:

http://www.u-sayranch.com/goats/ramsay/natural_ways_treating_mastitis.html

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/mastitis.htm

http://fiascofarm.com/herbs/oils.htm#mastitis


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## FlightsofFancy (Dec 10, 2009)

Thank you for the suggestions/links. Last night I washed her udder, like I would if I was milking her, then massaged it with peppermint oil. Her temp is normal and her udder is not hot. 
I have never seen an udder like this before. It is so hard and lumpy and about the size of a large cantaloupe with walnut size lumps. BTW: she is an Alpine/Nubian that has never been bred.


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## Beekissed (Dec 10, 2009)

I had heard of the old trick of feeding the milk back to the animal many years ago, so this article was kind of neat.


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## FlightsofFancy (Dec 10, 2009)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> I had heard of the old trick of feeding the milk back to the animal many years ago, so this article was kind of neat.


I really liked the article!!! It reminded me of when I had my baby. My midwife told me to use my milk for EVERYTHING! From putting it in my baby's eye, diaper rash, and chapped nips. So it makes total sense to me.


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## ()relics (Dec 10, 2009)

I always drench the doe with some of her colostrum the first day that she begins to lactate after kidding...The theory, I guess, is anything present in the milk is introduced back to the lactating does system, which then begins to produce antibodies to fight any "bad" organisms...which then begin to attack the problem...Who knows?? 
  Sometimes I have problems with some of my does starting to lactate before they kid...I think this is the biggest cause of mastitis like symptoms... The doe builds up milk pressure before the kid is born thus putting a strain on the udder...Making it extremely susceptible to bruising...I usually end up stripping any doe that I think may have problems...Once the kid comes the problem is usually over...At least for me this seems to work.
  Question...Should a doe that has never kidded even have milk present? Maybe I missed something....Even if she is bred; Some does don't let down milk until they kid or after...I would say not mastitis...JMO...


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## FlightsofFancy (Dec 10, 2009)

()relics said:
			
		

> Question...Should a doe that has never kidded even have milk present? Maybe I missed something....Even if she is bred; Some does don't let down milk until they kid or after...I would say not mastitis...JMO...


My question too! This doe comes from a very long line of heavy dairy producers, that have a history of precocious udders. I feel like I have failed her by not breeding her sooner. She is 2 and has never been bred. Their is a slight chance my Nigi buck got to her about 2 weeks ago, but her udder is growing everyday with lumpy knots. I was only able to get a small squirt out of each teet, so ran the CMT test and it came out a little bit gelled....like liquid hand soap.
If anyone has other ideas I am open to it. I really am not sure how to handle this doe's udder. It would be so much easier to understand if she had just kidded.


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## ()relics (Dec 10, 2009)

leave it alone...When you try to milk her you are actually forcing the orfices open which then could allow bacteria a passage to enter....If she is "on feed" and her temperature is normal; I would leave her to herself....Away from the billy...He may be the cause of the problem...He may have butted her or some how caused her to bruise her udder, making it hard maybe swelled maybe redish looking...Which all appear to be mastitis symptoms.
....If the problem worsens ie: temperature/stops eating/loose stools/anything that isn't "normal" for her...CALL YOUR VET... I would give him/her a call today just so they know you have a possible problem so they will have some backgroung information Just In Case you have to call them later....JMO...
   Please if you have any questions about the health and safety of your animals Call Your Vet...I would....I called my goat vet yesterday with a question relating to one of my does that recently kidded...He was happy to give me the information that I needed....


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## FlightsofFancy (Dec 10, 2009)

Relics....great advice! However, the vets around here are confirmed idiots and goat killers. :/


Edited to add: Her udder started getting hard well before she was possibly bred. The vet looked at it about 4 months ago ( I had her in for something else) and he just shrugged. I believe at that time, while he was examining her, he dislodged the seals in her teats which in my mind opened them up for infection. 
I am a watch and wait type of person, believing that if I messed with her udder too much it would cause more harm. However, this situation is getting worse and how fast it changed...like over night! I can not tell you how knotty her udder is....all these little walnut sized bumps on a cantaloupe is my best explanation. 
I have contacted local producers, her breeder, and I have even put a call into the Vet. I am reaching out in every direction to educate myself on precocious udders and the possibility of mastitis. We don't have an actual diagnosis yet, but I am not just going to sit around and wait for her udder to fall off until someone calls me back. (OK, I know a bit over the top.)
That is where the natural therapies come into play. Peppermint oil, tea tree oil, etc, will at least be doing something that will not interfere with antibiotics, until we get some answers.


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## ()relics (Dec 10, 2009)

I have 3 vets...1 for my horses...1 for my dogs....1 for my goats...My goat vet has a  fullblood boer herd, his animals have won distinctions at every level...What he tells me I usually believe and fortunately his office is less than 10 miles from my house and I have his cell phone number on speed dial , along with the other 2 vets....He understands that I want to try to stay away from the "drug makers" solutions and usually has some less harsh treatments for me to try....
  Your other option would be call a dairy cow vet...They may be able to help.


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## FlightsofFancy (Dec 11, 2009)

Well, I finally spoke to the Vet. He is completely puzzled. (Big surprise!) He posted on his own Vet forum and the recommendation is to ultra-sound the udder or/and do a needle biopsy.  However, he would prefer to just wait and see. Wait and see for what...he doesn't know. He suggested I keep doing what I am doing..... wash the udder with warm soapy water, apply the peppermint oil and spray the teats w/ Fight Bac. I am not going to milk her because I do not want to encourage milk production. 
I sent off the blood work and should get pregnancy results by Wed of next week. Lets hope she is preggers so we can be done with this in 5 months or atleast have a better idea of how to treat her.
Thanks for all your support. I will keep you updated on changes.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 21, 2009)

If she's never been bred then there should be no udder. My sister had a yearling doe that started developing an udder (had never been bred), and it turned out to be a tumor and we had to put her down.  

Something sounds wrong. She should just have small teats with no udder development at this point.  :/


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## no nonsense (Dec 21, 2009)

_Edited - if you don't want to discuss organic animal husbandry then don't open these threads, this section is for those who want to treat their animals organically_


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## FlightsofFancy (Dec 22, 2009)

To those wondering about why she has an udder......Have any of you heard of a precocious udder??? Very common in high lactating breeds like Alpines. Very common in my does bloodlines. Alpine Bucks have also been known to produce milk in this bloodline. We are talking heavy dairy here!

As I stated earlier, I am working with a Vet, with dairy cow background, but goats are VERY different. He supports the natural approach because at this time he doesn't know what to do that would not be invasive....like a biopsy that would open her up to infection and a slew of other issues. The last breeding didn't take....we will be re-breeding her after Christmas. Everyone involved...Vet, her breeder and I believe that is the best solution. 
I would like to add.....we have seen improvement from the cleaning, fight-bac and peppermint oil massage.

*There is a balance between holistic and western medicine and just because you start with "natural" doesn't mean you are with-holding proper care.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 22, 2009)

FlightsofFancy said:
			
		

> To those wondering about why she has an udder......Have any of you heard of a precocious udder??? Very common in high lactating breeds like Alpines. Very common in my does bloodlines. Alpine Bucks have also been known to produce milk in this bloodline. We are talking heavy dairy here!
> 
> As I stated earlier, I am working with a Vet, with dairy cow background, but goats are VERY different. He supports the natural approach because at this time he doesn't know what to do that would not be invasive....like a biopsy that would open her up to infection and a slew of other issues. The last breeding didn't take....we will be re-breeding her after Christmas. Everyone involved...Vet, her breeder and I believe that is the best solution.
> I would like to add.....we have seen improvement from the cleaning, fight-bac and peppermint oil massage.
> ...


Well if you think it's precocious udder and not a tumor (like I stated we had a yearling doe develop a mammary tumor that made it look like a full udder), I would milk her out frequently.  Frequent milking is one of the best organic ways to combat mastitis.  Just make sure you'd follow the procedures like you would normally do, wash the udder first, have clean hands, milk out, dip teats in teat dip to seal teats.  

I'd do this as often as possible.  And keep massaging the udder.  

Once the mastitis is under control, you can follow dry off procedures to stop production.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 22, 2009)

FlightsofFancy said:
			
		

> Thank you for the suggestions/links. Last night I washed her udder, like I would if I was milking her, then massaged it with peppermint oil.* Her temp is normal and her udder is not hot. *I have never seen an udder like this before. It is so hard and lumpy and about the size of a large cantaloupe with walnut size lumps. BTW: she is an Alpine/Nubian that has never been bred.


The bolded part is what makes me think it's not mastitis.  It really would be good to milk her out and see what's coming out of the udder.  I know you said you're worried about stimulatic milk production, but as long as you dry her off properly there won't be a problem. I think it'd be worse to not milk her out than to milk her out and then dry her off.  

And I know you said goats and cows are very different, but they're really not THAT different. There are a lot of commonalities between species when looking at mammary systems.


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## helmstead (Dec 22, 2009)

FlightsofFancy said:
			
		

> I have a doe with a precocious udder, that may have mastitis. I am unable to get a good milk sample to do an accurate CMT test.


Okay, so here you see that mastitis is NOT confirmed.



			
				flightsoffancy said:
			
		

> I am not going to milk her because I do not want to encourage milk production.


And here you see she does not plan to milk the doe.



			
				flightsoffancy said:
			
		

> we have seen improvement from the cleaning, fight-bac and peppermint oil massage.


And here you see she's seeing improvement.

LOL

I think cabbage leaves in a goat bra, that's MY vote


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## no nonsense (Dec 22, 2009)

Edited for flaming reply


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## mully (Dec 22, 2009)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I think cabbage leaves in a goat bra, that's MY vote


How many cups would you sew in? red or green cabbage : lau


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## cmjust0 (Dec 22, 2009)

Edited for flaming


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## FlightsofFancy (Dec 22, 2009)

OK...let me explain a bit......
My Vet, by his own admission, said "I know about dairy cows, but not much about dairy goats. I am not sure we can treat them the same."

Then, the Vets in my area just don't know anything about goats. They spend 1 day in Vet school on Ruminates. I have called and called around, but the best Vet here is the one I speak of above. My personal experience has been to get my self educated as much as I can with the issue at hand, then work with my Vet to come up with an appropriate treatment. I also have some of the best producers in the country on my "call" list, but they are not always available and I like to double and triple check everything I do.

*This is a unique situation. *We have decided to treat as if it is Mastitis or heading in that direction.  The Vet thinks I just caught it very early, before she got really sick. BTW: Mastitis doesn't always have a fever in the early stages...there are many different symptoms. I tested with CMT and it had suspicious results (I couldn't get enough milk to run an accurate test)

I am very confused at the recent replies. This isn't a debate!!! I asked for suggestions on treatments.
Thank you to those of you who offered suggestions and Kate you crack me up!!!!

Edited to add: Yes! I have watched some of the Vets in my area kill goats by lack of education, really stupid mistakes that any half educated goat owner wouldn't make. I am not anti-Vet or anti-modern med......talk to me about wormers some time.


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## reinbeau (Dec 22, 2009)

This thread has been cleaned up and returned to the Organic Husbandry Goat forum.  If you are not interested in organic animal husbandry then please, stay out of these threads and this subforum.  Any argumentative comments will be deleted and the poster may be subject to further moderation.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 22, 2009)

FlightsofFancy said:
			
		

> OK...let me explain a bit......
> My Vet, by his own admission, said "I know about dairy cows, but not much about dairy goats. I am not sure we can treat them the same."
> 
> Then, the Vets in my area just don't know anything about goats. They spend 1 day in Vet school on Ruminates. I have called and called around, but the best Vet here is the one I speak of above. My personal experience has been to get my self educated as much as I can with the issue at hand, then work with my Vet to come up with an appropriate treatment. I also have some of the best producers in the country on my "call" list, but they are not always available and I like to double and triple check everything I do.
> ...


Cows are ruminants too.   And you mention mastitis not having a fever in the early stages but if her udder is hard and lumpy it doesn't really sound early to me.  

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.


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## houndit (Jan 7, 2010)

Hoeggers recommends Peppermint extract.


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## rollingmeadow (Jan 12, 2010)

Has anyone considered colloidal silver?  Google "colloidal silver".  It isn't well known since antibiotics where invented but before that it was used everywhere.  It's still used in treating burns and wounds.  

You can add it to the water or drench like an antibiotic while also washing the udder.  It is considered a natural remedy not a medication.  You can use it along with any current treatment, it might be worth a try for you.

I used it many many times and so far it has squashed cocci in my chicken flock and healed what would have been a deadly wound to the neck of one of my hens (it looked like her brains where exposed-gross).  It is non toxic.  Colloidal silver is charged silver ions suspended in water.  It works by preventing the bacteria, virus, fungi, or parasite from "breathing" from their chemical lungs and they die within minutes.  It does not affect living animal cells because they are too complex, only simple cells like the bad guys.  It costs nothing to make, pretty much just the distilled water.  You make it with 9 volt batteries, and ohm reader, resistor, and distilled water.  Electricity from the batteries pulls ions from the silver wire and suspends them in the water, thats it.

Here it is used for birds: http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/features_colloidalsilver.mgi

This is a kit I use to make it: http://www.atlasnova.com/ColloidalSilverStarterKit.htm


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## FlightsofFancy (Jan 12, 2010)

I love colloidal silver! I use it on myself, finches, chickens, but didn't think about it here. Thanks!


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 12, 2010)

FlightsofFancy said:
			
		

> I love colloidal silver! I use it on myself, finches, chickens, but didn't think about it here. Thanks!


How's she doing?


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## FlightsofFancy (Jan 12, 2010)

She is doing GREAT! Thank you for asking! Her udder shrunk to half it's size. The real test will be when she kids. I'll keep you posted.


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## ksalvagno (Jan 12, 2010)

So how did you end up treating her? I would be very interested to hear.


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## FlightsofFancy (Jan 12, 2010)

I didn't treat her past the washing, Fight-bac and the peppermint oil which I only did for about 6 days. Oh, I did cut back her grain a bit.


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## FlightsofFancy (Apr 3, 2010)

I wanted to give everyone an update on my doe...... I stuck with the natural remedy of  washing the udder, Fight-bac, and peppermint oil for about 10 days....then I just left her alone. At that point the swelling had gone down and I had marked results.
She is now 60 days bred and has a nice normal soft udder that is starting to look like any other FF goat udder. It has evened out completely.
I have to say I really think just getting her bred fixed the issue, but the non-invasive protocol eased her discomfort, made me feel better and might have kept her from getting full blown mastitis. 

**I did a ton of research on this topic while going through it and found that this line of Alpines  has some major milk producing bucks....YES I said Bucks!!! Along with precocious udders in does that are not bred by 1 year. If I retain any of her does (her Dam produced 2 gallon a day) I will be ready to breed these gals early. 

Thank you to all for the suggestions and support through this!!


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## ksalvagno (Apr 3, 2010)

That is wonderful that it worked. I will have to keep this in mind if I ever run into the problem.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 3, 2010)




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## houndit (Apr 4, 2010)

Thank you for letting us know!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 5, 2010)

I have a question about mastitis, well not really mastitis but about one of my girls' udders.  5 of my goats came from a couple who dearly loved their goats, but the lived in a golf course community and the management found out after a year that they had the goats and made them move them. They though that they were going to be able to keep them at some friend a half hour away, but it didn't work out, the goats were neglected, the bucks got in with the does bred and bred them. Because of the neglect two lost the kids, 1 aborted, one birth to still borns. The last doe gave birth to twins, one died but one lived. When we got them the buckling was about 7 weeks old. The dam had not been milked at all except by the buckling. When I got her I noticed that there was hardly any milk in one side. I got maybe a TBS each milking for the longest time. By the time I dried her I was getting a lot more. 

Things that I noticed, the buckling only drank out of the other side. I never saw him drink out of the side with little milk. Also the owners told me she is a "loopy" goat, and that she used to milk herself, on that teat. I tested (taped her up) and got the same amount of milk. I've never seen her drink from her teat.

I've been reading about mastitis just in preparation and I noticed that mastitis can cause problems similar to what she had. So my question is, does it sound like there was a previous case of mastitis? And if so what do I need to do to make sure she doesn't get mastitis again?


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 6, 2010)

Sometimes in the case of a single kid, the kid will only nurse from one side of the udder at first. Then the non-nursed side will get larger and the teat will be harder for the small kid to nurse.  If left alone, the kid will probably stick to the one side which could cause the other side to eventually dry off.  

I would hesitate to do anything at this point.  Wait and see how she freshens and then milk her to see how things look.  If she has another single, then milk out the non-nursed side or put the kid on both sides so both sides get nursed.


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## Kenneth Flippen (Jan 1, 2011)

FlightsofFancy said:
			
		

> **I did a ton of research on this topic while going through it and found that this line of Alpines  has some major milk producing bucks....YES I said Bucks!!! Along with precocious udders in does that are not bred by 1 year. If I retain any of her does (her Dam produced 2 gallon a day) I will be ready to breed these gals early.
> 
> Thank you to all for the suggestions and support through this!!


I sent you a PM I am very interested in a Alpine buck from this line to breed with my does

                                    Kenneth Flippen


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