# Worming goats?



## Picklestix7866 (Jun 6, 2009)

I've had goats for only a few months and we have never wormed them.  How do we do it?  Do we use the same stuff as we use for horses, just a smaller amount?  Our doe just had kids, so should we wait til they are weaned or should we do them too?  Thanks!


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## Chirpy (Jun 6, 2009)

I worm my does the day after freshen.   I use Ivermec paste for horses (most people give 3x the amount to their goats -- that means if you have a 150 lb. goat you give them enough paste for a 450 lb. animal; some people only double the dosage).   I like to give it orally but some people give other types via injection or I've even heard as a pour on (like cattle).   There is also a natural wormer that is fed weekly to the goats with their grain.   I'm looking into that one.


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## helmstead (Jun 6, 2009)

You should be deworming from monthly to quarterly, depending on your climate.

That doe that kidded needs dewormed ASAP!  You should always deworm them the day they kid, then again 10 days later.

We deworm kids and young goats monthly beginning at 4 weeks of age.  

With paste Ivermec, I actually 4x the dose...but I prefer injectable or pour on to the paste (much more effective).


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## Chaty (Jun 6, 2009)

With pour-on you give it orally via a syringe w/o needle. Dont pour it on the goats back as it does sometimes burn them and cause hair loss. I use the injectable and you can give it orally also. 
Yes worm the goat that kidded as she is in need of worming as hormones cause the worms to go crazy and you dont want to lose her. I start worming my babies like helmsted does at 4 weeks for tapeworms. When you worm the doe do it and in 10 days do again and again in 10 days to break the cycles of worms.


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## Roll farms (Jun 6, 2009)

It also wouldn't hurt to get a fecal ran....to see if the goat _needs_ wormed and with what wormer.  
Not all worming programs work for all goats in all areas....
Ivomec is useless on stomach worms here in the swampy IN climate I live in.  I learned these things the hard way. 
A deworming program that's great in dry Arizona will be less effective in swampy Georgia.  
(See Goat Rancher magazine for tons of info on how overuse of dewormers is becoming a huge problem, how to use FAMACHA to evaluate, and even learn how to run your own fecals.)
I use Safe Guard dewormer (for goats) on preggos (when needed) and valbazen (never use it on my preggos) on the non-preggos for stomach worms, ivomec for lung worms, mites, etc.  
I've had a few I've had to use Cydectin sheep drench on, because even safeguard and valbazen are becoming less effective here.  I save that as a last resort, though b/c I don't want to over use it and ruin it's effectiveness.
Throwing wormer at a goat "just because" is making stronger worms and rendering the existing dewormers less effective.
Learn to evaluate their condition by checking eyelid color (pale lids usually indicates anemia caused by stomach worms), coat condition, weight gain, etc.
I've read a couple articles on how goats don't metabolize the pour-on wormers the same as cows do, and how it can build up and make them sick.  For now, I choose not to use pour ons, orally or as labeled.
I do generally deworm my new moms w/ Valbazen at kidding time simply b/c I *know* we have barberpole worm issues (from past and current fecals) and again 10-14 days later, and follow up to make sure it's working.
Another thing I've been doing...the goats who constantly need dewormed?  Get culled.  
The easy-keepers who rarely need dewormed tend to have bigger, healthier kids and do better over all.
*steps off dewormer fanatic soap box*


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## freemotion (Jun 7, 2009)

RF, fantastic "soapbox" speech.  Keep 'em coming.  Very researched and well-thought-out.  Have you considered writing articles?  That's when you get paid to get on your soapbox! 

I'm kinda new to goats, but experienced with horses.  One of the issues that came up, after all the "-azole" wormers became ineffective due to overuse.....they were the cheapest......was that now people switched to ivermectin, the new wonder drug.  And wormed by the calender, not by running fecals.  So the worms were naturally selected for shorter life cycles, and the owners were blissfully unaware of this new problem.

If an attempt is made to keep the animals 100% worm-free, there is no natural immunity (for lack of a better term) built up....hardiness can be bred out.  I'm with ya on culling.  We need to get hardiness back into all types of animals, much has been bred out of most species bred here, as we seem to breed for specific traits to an extreme.

I'm learning about goats fast, and I like your approach.  Thanks again.


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## Picklestix7866 (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm in central Minnesota if that makes any difference.


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## Rence (Jun 7, 2009)

I also worm either the day, or the day after, a doe kids. And again ten days later.

I worm the kids at 3 weeks, and again in ten days.

And then, I go by how they look. If they start to get thin despite having plenty of food, or if the membranes under their eyelids aren't nice and pink, I worm and again in ten days. If they still don't look right, I'll do it a third time.

They now make cydectin oral wormer for goats. 

However, since these are new goats to you and you don't know their worming history, I agree that you should start with a fecal. Not all wormers cover the same parasites, and some are resistent to certain wormers. Plus, a fecal will identify coccidia, if they have it. 

Since this is the very first time you're doing this, I'd run the fecal, worm, worm again in ten days (depending on the fecal results), and then ten days after that, I'd run another fecal. So: fecal, worm, worm in ten days, fecal in ten days. Just to be sure their bugs are responding to the wormer.

For coccidia, I wouuldn't use anything else but albon via oral drench. I wouldn't bother with putting stuff in their water. But that's just me. I feel you can't tell who gets what when you mass treat.


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## nightshade (Jun 7, 2009)

I have been told by other goat raisers that you should switch wormer every time you run out. Like if you buy a bag of one kind when you run out of it buy a bag of something else. After that is gone you can switch back to the first stuff.


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## Picklestix7866 (Jun 7, 2009)

I do know that I have to switch wormers every time just like with horses, so I am at least a little knowledgable.


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## Roll farms (Jun 8, 2009)

Switching dewormers isn't always enough...if the worms aren't being killed by what you're using, you're wasting your money on an ineffective treatment and building up resistance to other things.
Meningeal worms are ONLY killed by ivermectin-based dewormers.  If you have a meningeal worm infestation on your property, and don't use the ivermectin often enough to combat it...your goat's spines will be severed by the worms.  It's a horrible thing to watch them go through.
Barberpole worms can kill a goat.  If you don't reduce their load enough the first time you deworm for that, then switch to a different wormer that doesn't kill barberpole worms, the goat can develop bottle jaw and become so anemic that any form of stress will kill it.
(Again...I learned BOTH of those lessons the hard way...back when I was "switching wormers ea. time".)
You have to know what dewormers work for what types of worms, what worm issues you have, and how to best administer the specific dewormers so that you increase their efficiency.
Fecals, FAMACHA...learn what you have, how to treat it, and follow-up to make sure it's working.
Just doing what everyone else says to do, doesn't always work.


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## ksalvagno (Jun 8, 2009)

So meningeal worm affects goats like it affects alpacas? I didn't realize that. Very good to know. Is it the same that Ivomec is the preventative and Safeguard is the treatment (if you catch it early enough)?

What is the dosing for goats? Alpacas are 1cc per 70 lbs for Ivomec and 1cc per 7 pounds specifically for meningeal worm. Regular Safeguard treatment is 1cc per 10 pounds.


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## ksalvagno (Jun 8, 2009)

I meant that Safeguard is 1cc per 7 pounds for meningeal worm treatment.


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## redhen (Jun 8, 2009)

I live in MA. What is the best wormer to use in my area? Thanks


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## Roll farms (Jun 8, 2009)

You should speak to someone locally, either a KNOWLEDGEABLE goat vet (not a dog vet who's read a book on goats) or a long-time goat rancher and ask them what works on worms in your area...
There's nothing like experience.
You can't decide what to use based on where you live.  Not all of Indiana is a swamp, just my 18 acres, LOL.

You also really DO need to have a base-line fecal ran (it's not expensive) to see if you even NEED to worm them.  Why waste the money and unbalance their rumen if you don't even have issues?

Then, learn your animals...you will know when they're "off" if you observe how they're eating, pooping, baseline temps, etc.  Check their eyelids.  Are they pink?  Rumen moving often? 
I have goats I literally haven't wormed in years, b/c they never show signs of needing it. 

I don't understand using chemicals "just because"...nor do I understand wasting money on meds if you don't even know WHY you're using it, or for what type of worm you're after...just because someone says so?

Nearly everything I know I researched myself, there's TONS of info online or read in goat magazines...your states' agriculture extension office website, other goat producer's sites (Fiasco farms, onion creek ranch, etc.) and even the dewormer manufacturer's sites can help you.  

When I need to use Ivomec on our goats, I use a generic ivermectin injectable, 1 cc per 40# given _*orally*_


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