# Goat Electric Fencing



## meoddone (Feb 16, 2016)

Hi All, new here...

I have about 1 acre fenced in that I want to enclose two Nigerian Dwarf Goats. How many joules do I need? I don't need a 50 mile charger, will a 2 mile charger rated to 0.1 joules be enough? Do the joules increase as the fencing distance decreases?

Currently I have two cows in the pasture and they don't challenge the 3.5' fencing with a single barbed wire on top. I know goats will be tougher to keep in (impossible I hear...), but feel confident that my fencing is hog tight... it's the up-and-over I'm worried about... 

Thanks for all your help!


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## babsbag (Feb 16, 2016)

I can't tell you if joules increases with a shorter distance but .1 isn't much and I doubt it will stop them. I wouldn't go less than 1 joule. We put our wire on the inside at goat knee height; they learn pretty quickly to stay away from the fence.


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## meoddone (Feb 16, 2016)

So 1 joule is what you use? Thank you very much!


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## babsbag (Feb 16, 2016)

Yes, I use 1 joule. Zareba has a chart on their website that lists what chargers work for what animals.


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## Latestarter (Feb 16, 2016)

Greetings @meoddone from the front range in Colorado. Welcome to BYC, glad you joined us! get comfy and  enjoy!


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## meoddone (Feb 16, 2016)

Will they jump the 3.5' fence? They will have large stumps in the pasture to play on, plenty of food and water, and the whole acre to run around in. Do I even need an electrical wire? Or can I just electrify the barbed wire?

Thanks All.


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## norseofcourse (Feb 16, 2016)

Welcome to BYH!  I would not electrify the barbed wire.

What is your current 3.5' fence?  Woven wire? Welded wire? Something else?  Got any pictures?

They may be happy in that 1 acre, till it gets more eaten down than what's outside it, and the outside looks more and more tempting.  What kind of fencing are the goats currently in, at the place you're getting them from?


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

Just deleted my post 

I will try to re post it when I can get to a computer.


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## meoddone (Feb 17, 2016)

Ha, sorry about the post being deleted. I struggle with similar issues. And sorry for delaying my replies, things get busy... I'll get pictures tonight.

It's woven wire fencing, not too sturdy... I'm fixing up the place and have added a few T-Posts in areas and reattached the fence to them in others. Why wold you not electrify the barbed wire? The fence is currently set up for it, not that I need to, just curious...

I'm not sure what type of fencing is currently holding them. But they are in a smaller enclosure with no grass so I anticipate that it's a more expensive (and more effective) cattle panel or something. I just bought a used Solar Pak 12 and plan to install it with polytape around the top of the fence, as well as knee high to a goat.

What do ya'll think?


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2016)

Three Joules    Don't touch that fence and the goats will learn the same very quickly.   Is this for predator control too or just to keep the goats in? It should work for the goats no problem.

As far as the barbed wire. I'll let this explain.

"The electric pulse flows down the perimeter (surface) of the fence wire.  If this wire is smooth, then the pulse flows fast and pretty much unabated down each length of wire.  *Every wire joint is a potential source of electrical resistance *and therefore joints must be kept to a minimum. There are many joints barbed wire."  

Also, getting hung up in the wire would be downright painful for man or beast and I wouldn't want to take that chance.


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## meoddone (Feb 17, 2016)

Oh, man... 3 Joules is quite a bit? I was reading this thread and didn't feel it would be too much. They said that 2 does the trick, maybe I don't understand how much more 3 is than 2... one said that the goats didn't flinch at 1.5 joules, but maybe they had poor grounding?
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/goat-joules.2759/

There is a pack of dogs that sometimes roams the area, I don't know where they belong yet, but I've seen them twice in the last year. Coyotes live in some trees a mile away but they haven't bothered my chickens at all, so I'm not too concerned about them. The neighbors German Shepherd is sort of a pain...

Good info on the barbed wire, thanks for that.

I appreciate all of your input. I read many things on-line but have a harder time believing websites trying to sell me something... I hope my unruly 10 month 60 lb lab learns a thing about the fence too, but I don't want to cause lasting injury...

Now I'm scared!


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2016)

My 1 joule fence hurts so if their goats ignored a 1.5 I would expect a bad ground. I have a meter that tells me what the output is and it runs about 7500 to 8500 volts.  Joule and volts are not the same thing so it gets really confusing sometimes. I just looked up our charger and it says it is 11,460 volts with no load and the one you bought is 13,500; so a little higher but not much. When you add in the resistance of the fence it drops quite a bit. I am sure you will be fine. It says that goats need 4000-5000 volts, which again is not joules.


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## meoddone (Feb 17, 2016)

I do believe in 'tough love', letting kids and animals learning a tough lesson, but then being there to pick them up and give them a hug.

I want the goats to learn to stay in, but I won't enjoy the learning process, and don't want to be overbearing. I specifically picked polytape so that the animals could see what was biting them, I didn't want them afraid of everything gray... I may get a little pleasure out of seeing the neighbor's dog learn a thing or two though...

Would you run the polytape at the ground level to keep them away from the fence? will they jump over it? Or should I just put the tape at the top of the fence so they learn when they jump?

I wish I could just put in a 4' 2X4 WW fence, but that is not in the budget...

Are 3 - 8' ground rods really necessary?

Thanks again...


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2016)

I have 3 6' rods that are probably buried about 4' each and yes they are necessary, especially in the summer if the ground gets dry. 

I would put the tape down low where they can touch it with their nose or their body, they will learn to just stay away from the fence. I have mine up high too as I am keeping my LGDs in and before the dogs I was keeping the coyotes out so I have it at the top inside and out.  I use the poly wire, not the tape. When I want to keep the goats out of a place where I am working I can just run a strand of wire, not hot, and they won't cross the line.


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## Latestarter (Feb 17, 2016)

When you put hot wire down low, roundup or a weed whacker will become your best friend, and you'll need to routinely walk your fence line to make sure no branches or other debris have fallen against the hot wire, grounding it out. Grass and weeds will cause a load on the fence (hence the round up). I've no idea where you live, but the wetter it is, the less grounding rods you need.  Some folks actually have their lawn irrigation water the rod location just to ensure moist soil for a good ground. I think the "standard" is 3 ground rods. You could always do one and check the fence, then add another/more if needed.

3 joule (with a good ground, and within the length of fence (miles) designed for) is normally enough for a bear or moose, so for a Nigie/dwarf goat or a dog, it will leave a lasting impression for sure.  If the grass is wet and you take a hold of it, it will probably put you on your butt. No lasting damage mind you, but you'll respect it henceforth and forevermore! If you decide to tough love check it out, make sure you're standing on top of the ground rods when you do it...  That way you'll have the full benefit and know worst (best?) case scenario. I'd say just grab the positive and negative posts on the energizer, but that's just too routine/simple, and doesn't actually test the fence.  In any case, please have someone video your test so you can publish the video here when completed! 

Where you put the wire will depend on what you're trying to stop... If you are trying to keep the goats from scratching on the fence (weakening and eventually destroying it), then a wire just above knee height or at body height inside will do the trick nicely (goats love to scratch their body on fencing or fence posts). If you want to stop something from going over the fence (in either direction) then put a strand vertically up above the top of the fence. Just remember, if the animal jumps and contacts the hot wire while NOT touching the ground, it will NOT receive a shock. That's why some folks run a "cold" ground wire around just below the top hot wire (or next to any hot wire) and connect it to the ground post as well. If they contact a hot and cold wire... ZZZZAAPPPPP!!! If you want to stop diggers from getting in, then a strand down low on the outside will generally take care of that.


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## Scooby308 (Feb 17, 2016)

I was reading an article the other day that recommended 6 joules for goats! That seemed awful hot.


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## meoddone (Feb 17, 2016)

All good information, I appreciate you all very much. Sorry to disappoint, I will not test the fence myself, but I have no doubt I'll accidentally hit it sometime... when I do, I'll let you all know! I may, however, try to lure the neighbor's dog in to test it, I'll let that be my experiment...

I will have the solar panel near my house so I can turn it off whenever I or my kids will be out and around it. 

Thanks again for all of your help!


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2016)

Scooby308 said:


> I was reading an article the other day that recommended 6 joules for goats! That seemed awful hot.



Holy smoke...and there will be smoke...6 joule is crazy and I don't want to ever touch that fence. I have hit mine more times than I can count and I don't think I could do 6 joule; especially in the winter. I know I could never let the baby goats or the pups near it, my heart can't stand it when they hit my measly little 1 joule; 6 would kill me.  My goats and dogs respect my 1 joule just fine.


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## Mike CHS (Feb 18, 2016)

I can't imagine a 6 joule zap.  We had a 3 joule in Pensacola for the cattle and it got me enough times that I put cut-off switches at every corner to keep me from doing stupid things to avoid a walk back to the energizer.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 18, 2016)

We have a 4 joule and it wasn't _that _bad. We also had it with the poly wire instead of the normal wire you would see in most cattle fields.

Now our very old fence charger on the other hand is very powerful! I don't know the output on it but I have touched it a few times and you can feel it in your chest for a good 40 minutes if the ground is moist. This is what stays between the Bucks and does 

I hit it in the fall when I was out mucking pens, my hand hit the wire and man my muscles HURT for a long while. Yep, that fence gets unplugged before I step over it.


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## babsbag (Feb 18, 2016)

Mike CHS said:


> I put cut-off switches at every corner



Can you explain what you used? I leave the fence on when I am looking a short but having to go back to the energizer so I can fix the short is a real pain. Also, when there are times that you just NEED to do something on the other side of the fence cut off switches would be nice to have.


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## Mike CHS (Feb 19, 2016)

I can't find the one that we used since it has been awhile but it was similar to this one from Premier1.  I still got zapped every once in awhile in spite of the switches.  

https://www.premier1supplies.com/detail.php?prod_id=419


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## babsbag (Feb 19, 2016)

So you just wire the switch in line and then when you throw the little handle it shorts it out?  Hmmm. I too have been shocked by a fence with a short so not sure about that. But I trust Premier1 so maybe it would work. I have a meter I can test with to see before I touch it. 

Thanks for the link.


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## Mike CHS (Feb 19, 2016)

I would have to read more about that one.  The ones we used didn't short anything out but just broke the connection to one side of the connection.  You can disconnect power to all the hot wires on one side of even just one wire depending on how you wire it.  My neighbor only uses them on the bottom hot wire when his grass starts to get a little high and touching the fence.


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## babsbag (Feb 19, 2016)

I have problems with that lower wire too. I use the weed whacker but always seem to get the wire caught at least twice in the process. This year I am thinking weed killer.   It is on the outside of the fence so at least I know nothing will try and eat the grass. Not that the goats would get that close to the fence to begin with.


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## norseofcourse (Feb 19, 2016)

I got a cut-off switch from the local farm supply store, and I got shocked *through the handle* when I used it.  I took it out when I took out that section of fence.  I haven't tried the Premier1 cut-off switch yet though.  According to the reviews, it's better made.

I like the precaution on their instructions:  "Make sure energizer is off when installing."


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## meoddone (Feb 19, 2016)

I'll have to check how powerful the last one I touched was, it was the first time I'd seen polytape and I thought, "there's no way that works as well as wire". I had leather gloves on and got a bite and a very audible 'POP'. I was a believer from that time forward...


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