# Dog attack on 6 month old doeling



## nuts4goats (Jun 1, 2012)

I have a 6 month old Nigerian dwarf doeling that was attacked by dogs today. Luckily my kids were home at the time, and were able to get her away from the dogs. She recieved severe trauma to her neck with deep puncture wounds. She went into shock and pooped and peed on herself and went limp. I rushed home from work while my kids held pressure over the wounds and stopped the bleeding. I have 2 vets. One which I love, who I use for my dogs, and one who i use for the goats who is a fruitcake but who is my only option. When I got home I called the goat vet and he wanted me to bring her in for "magnetic therapy" for pain. I nixed that suggestion and called my dog vet. He agreed to sell me a bottle of bantamine but admittedly doesn't know anything about goats but agreed to help me with meds if I need them.  

This is what I have done so far:

Immediately flushed all wounds with 10% betadine solution and sterile saline as per fruitcake vets recommendation.  One wound that I flushed has an entry and exif because the puncture went straight through the bottom of her neck. When I flush it goes in one side and comes out the other!  Her airway is good. I dont hear any air or gurgling.

Gave her tetanus antitoxin

Gave her 3/4 cc pen G per fruitcake vet. Was told to give twice daily for 5 days

Gave her .3ml of flunazone (generic bantamine) IM per dog vet

Dressed wounds with triple antibiotic ointment and sterile 4 X 4s with gauze to secure.

My question:

Is there anything else I am missing, or should or shouldn't be doing? 
Dog vet gave me dosage for bantamine but didn't say IM or SQ or how often and for how long.

After getting her quieted down, warmed up, shaved, dressed, and medicated she is standing and eating.  Hoping this is a good sign. Im really worried about infection and tetanus. 

Any other suggestions?


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## elevan (Jun 1, 2012)

You're doing good so far from the sounds of it!  

Banamine  (Rx)0.25 ml / 25#  IM injection (Don't give more than 48 hours or you can cause liver damage)

Penicillin - 1 ml/ 15#  IM injection 2x day for 7 days (can give SQ)

While giving antibiotics give Probiotics (Probios or even yogurt) during the entire course.

Keep packing the wounds with triple antibiotic ointment for 48 hours and then switch to Blue-kote or something similar.

Remember to give the tetnus _vaccine _in 14 days.


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## nuts4goats (Jun 2, 2012)

Elevan- on the Banamine- how often can she have this? Is this every 12 hours?


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## nuts4goats (Jun 2, 2012)

Also- if I use the banamine sparingly, can I administer over a longer period? This morning she seems to be pretty comfortable so I may wait to give it to her because I have heard the third day is the worst, pain wise and I want to be able to give her something if I need to. Or perhaps, is there another pain med I can interchange? What about 325mg of crushed aspirin instead? Have you ever used aspirin? 

Also- do you think I need to set up a drain for the deep wound? I've never done that before and I'm hesitant about manipulating the tissue on this area as it is very friable. But if you think it will help the healing process I could give it a try.


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## redtailgal (Jun 2, 2012)

Can you show a pic of the deep wound?

While I agree that deep wounds often do best with a drain, if you cannot clean the wound THOROUGHLY and maintain a sterile field, it may not be a good idea to pout one in.  It may be better to pull the wound open daily, and clean it well, allowing for a slower healtime from the inside out.


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## SheepGirl (Jun 2, 2012)

I would spray iodine on it. I sprayed iodine on my ewe lamb's flystrike wound and it dried up and started scabbing over by the next morning.


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## terrilhb (Jun 2, 2012)

I don't know the answer but I pray your baby gets better real fast. It was good that your children were there to get the dogs away. Poor baby.


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## nuts4goats (Jun 2, 2012)

Redtailgal- after I got home from work and redressed the wounds, the deep one is looking alot better than I thought. Yesterday she was so swollen, it really made it look catastrophic. It is still open on both ends and when I flushed it with saline and betadine the solution is going clean through, so I'm thinking since its basically draining itself, I'm going to skip the drain. She was pretty uncomfortable this afternoon so I did go ahead and give her another shot of bantamine (first one today). She perked right up 15 minutes later. I think keeping her pain under control is going to allow her to get up and move around alot more and work out the soreness. We went ahead and cleaned out a stall and put down clean fresh straw bedding and gave her fresh hay and pellets and she seems a whole lot happier outside closer to her buddies. The laundry room is not a good place for goat ICU- haha. I think as long as i can keep her wounds clean, covered, and dressed, and keep away infection she will be ok. 

I'm going to use the bantamine for one more day, then switch to aspirin as needed. Does anyone have any experience with aspirin, how much to administer, and how frequently? 

I sure would love to switch to an oral antibiotic, as I HATE doing these shots. Is there an oral antibiotic I can switch to in a few days that would do as well as IM penicillin?

Thanks for everyones advice.


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## bonbean01 (Jun 2, 2012)

I'm so sorry this happened to your little goatie   but...so glad those horrid dogs did not attack your children...this is bad, but could have been so much worse!

Sorry I am no help with giving crushed aspirin...have been fortunate here in not having this happen yet, but read these so that should it happen I will have an idea what to do.

Hope she heals up super fast!!!!


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## ksalvagno (Jun 3, 2012)

You can give Banamine once a day for 3 days in a row. That is what is considered safe. If she is still in a lot of pain after 3 days, use your judgement. It can cause kidney damage but I had to give an alpaca Banamine shots for a full week and there was no damage done and the alpaca was fine. The big thing is to keep swelling down and pain down. You can give it SQ or IM.

I think my only concern with giving aspirin is that it has to be processed by the stomach and it could cause ulcers.

I hope your little one gets better quick.

All shots except hormones can be given SQ. If you give them IM, it gets into the system quicker. I like to give antibiotics SQ. I have seen more reactions from giving IM than SQ which would make sense since IM gets it into the system quicker.


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## nuts4goats (Jun 3, 2012)

Molly has alot of swelling underneath her jaw this morning. I don't know if she is developing an abscess or if it's because she hangs her head down most if the time and this is where all the swelling has accumulated due to gravity. There are no wounds in this area. Her dressing stops just below this area. She is super slow and sore this morning.  Guess I will do bantamine one last time today. She is a little goat- only 27 pounds, so I don't want to risk any kidney/liver damage. I'm feeling less optimistic today. I hate to see her feeling so bad. I put her best buddy, Mikey in with her today hoping it will encourage her to be more mobile. She is still eating and drinking, although very slowly. 

I am wondering if I should try two antibiotics in tandem, in case the penicillin isnt covering some of the organisms, especially with the new swelling this morning. I would rather be aggressive, than cautious at this point.  Any thoughts or suggestions? 

I may have to call the goat vet tomorrow, but honestly, I think I'd get farther using google. He's not very helpful and I would LOVE to find anyone else. We may show up at the dog clinic tomorrow and BEG.


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## ksalvagno (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm not sure about using 2 different antibiotics. You do have to be careful because some cancel each other out. The good thing about giving her the twice a day shots is that you have a constant level of antibiotic which is really good in your case. It does take 3 days for antibiotics to work so give it some time. She went through a huge trauma and it sounds like she is doing well for going through what she has. I bet the jaw stuff is from her hanging her head.  I would go ahead and do 4 days of Banamine total. In this situation, I think she really needs it.

Remember if you do something very strenuous that you feel the worst a couple days later? This is what is going on with your doeling. This is going to take some time to heal both physically and mentally. Putting her buddy back in with her is a good thing. Just keep up the good work. I know you are trying hard.


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## elevan (Jun 3, 2012)

Good work getting her this far.

I'm on the fence on giving her more banamine because she's so small.  I would probably do a few days of asprin (325 mg per 10# of body weight orally) don't crush it unless you're using baby asprins though (lessens the chance of ulcer that ksalvagno mentioned).

Make sure you're giving plenty of probiotics.

Keep up with the penicillin - keep giving SQ if it makes you more comfortable to do so.  

Oral antibiotics are generally bad for goats because they really need their stomach flora and antibiotics kill all bacteria - both good and bad, so giving an antibiotic orally increases that effect.

Switch to Blue-kote or Iodine for the wound today and don't cover it.  Allow the wound to dry.

Keep us posted.


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## redtailgal (Jun 3, 2012)

ALso, if the swollen area is soft and squishy, like there is fluid in there, I would apply a warm compress.

If the swollen area is firmer and more solid, like swollen tissue, I'd apply a cool compress.


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## Queen Mum (Jun 3, 2012)

Antibiotics DO NOT cancel each other out.   They kill different bugs.   The only risk with antibiotics simultaneously is that they kill beneficial bacteria and being  ruminants, goats need gut flora for digestion.   

Banamine is safer than aspirin for goats and is preferred over aspirin.  It will not kill the animals kidneys or liver if used sparingly for up to one week but that is ONLY in cases where the animal is really in a LOT of pain.  In most cases you should not need it more than three or four days.    Aspirin is problematic as it can cause bleeding problems and liver problems in ruminants.   It must be used MORE sparingly than banamine.  

Moderation and common sense are keys to using prescription drugs in animals.  It's a balancing act.

Animals in mild pain are animals that will be safer.  In other words, keep the animal up and moving.  If they are in mild pain, they are less likely to re-injure themselves.  Severe pain may cause them to not move enough to prevent pneumonia.


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## nuts4goats (Jun 3, 2012)

I ended up NOT giving her banamine today. I'm still doing penicillin. The area under her jaw feels like fluid to me. I've moved her hay bag and feed trough up to a higher level where she has to keep her head up to eat.  I have a goat house on a platform with a ramp that she has to climb to get up into. The ramp is not steep or tall, but requires just enough of her energy for her to barely make it up and down. She's pretty weak. She lost a lot of blood. I think with having the house in her stall, and putting her feed and water at a higher level, it's gently coaxing her to work a little. 

As far as uncovering her wounds... Uncovering the deep wound scares me. I'm afraid she's going to get dirt down into it, or worse- end up with maggots down in it. We definetly aren't short on flies.  Is there a salve I can apply to keep the flies out of it? I know it has to be uncovered soon- I am just so worried about infection. I have been keeping it meticulously clean.


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## bonbean01 (Jun 3, 2012)

I am sorry that I am of no help here for you...so glad folks on here know what to do!  You are really trying hard and taking good care of her!

Sending you a hug and encouragement


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## elevan (Jun 3, 2012)

nuts4goats said:
			
		

> As far as uncovering her wounds... *Uncovering the deep wound scares me. I'm afraid she's going to get dirt down into it, or worse- end up with maggots down in it. We definetly aren't short on flies.  *


Use your best judgement on this.  We're not there to see what's going on - *you are*.  Definitely switch to a drying type of wound care such as Blue-kote or iodine though.


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## Roll farms (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but just in case it hasn't been brought up...swelling under the jaw can also be a sign of severe anemia - aka "Bottle Jaw".

Can you pull down her eyelid so that you're seeing the mucous membrane and see if it's pink (should be almost as dark as our inner eyelids).  If it's very pale, or grayish / white, she needs some supplementation asap.  I use Red Cell (iron supplement for horses) but there are other ways to get her iron levels back up.

Anemia can be caused by several factors, and that may not be the case here, I'd just like you to check b/c in an already stressed / weak animal, anemia isn't good.

QM, oxytetracycline DOES counteract w/ Pen G, lowering it's effectiveness.  It also isn't absorbed well in nursing animals, because milk inhibits absorption.

As far as what the preferred drug for pain killing / inflamation, the OP could ask 10 goat people and get 10 different answers.  I've owned goats for 20 yrs and never owned a bottle of Banamine.  
In the rare case I need to give a goat something, I use children's ibuprofen liquid.  Yes, in moderation...but still....what one prefers may not be what others prefer or recommend.


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## terrilhb (Jun 3, 2012)




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## nuts4goats (Jun 3, 2012)

Roll- I will definetly check the eyelids. I didn't even think of that! If it means anything- the swelling is only unilateral under one side. But id be willing to bet she probably is anemic because she lost alot of blood. I'm pretty sure I saw a bottle of red cell at the farm supply. What exactly is that? Is it injectable or oral? I'm getting that first thing tomorrow! I can't believe I didn't think of that! Oh my goodness, thank you for bringing that up!!!


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## SheepGirl (Jun 3, 2012)

nuts4goats said:
			
		

> As far as uncovering her wounds... Uncovering the deep wound scares me. I'm afraid she's going to get dirt down into it, or worse- end up with maggots down in it. We definetly aren't short on flies.  Is there a salve I can apply to keep the flies out of it? I know it has to be uncovered soon- I am just so worried about infection. I have been keeping it meticulously clean.


I just dealt with a case of flystrike/maggots on my ewe lamb. First I picked out all the maggots I could...they left a deep wound around her tail. So I sprayed it with water to clean out any dirt (I used the little sprayer in my kitchen sink) and then when my mom got home we put some iodine in a spray bottle and sprayed her wound and around her wound and then we used Prozap screwworm spray and sprayed around her wound and pretty much all on her back end to kill any eggs I missed cutting out. The screwworm spray works as both treatment and preventative and you can get it at TSC. It does turn them blue, though...I would definitely get this if you are worried about maggots. I went to TSC to get fly repellant stuff today and I think I saw the screwworm spray there for $7 or $8.

ETA: I know that your doeling's wounds are probably a lot worse than my ewe lamb's flystrike wound was, but I found the iodine really helped to heal her up quick--just as it helps to dry up umbilical cords, it dries up the wound and then a scab quickly develops on top of it.


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## nuts4goats (Jun 3, 2012)

Thank you Sheepgirl. Guess I will pick that up tomorrow too. 

Roll- just read about the red cell and bottlejaw. Dosage says 15cc's orally. Is this what you would give a 27 pound goat? Also, I'm thinking a b12 shot might not hurt either. I'm debating on worming her also- but I dont want to overwhelm her with all these meds! It makes me so nervous. 

This afternoon, my husband had to give her the penicillin because I hate giving her the shots. She hollers and sounds just like a baby- I hate it! I know it has to be done- but it sure isn't easy! I keep waiting for her to have a reaction, or something horrible.


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## elevan (Jun 3, 2012)

nuts4goats said:
			
		

> Thank you Sheepgirl. Guess I will pick that up tomorrow too.
> 
> Roll- just read about the red cell and bottlejaw. Dosage says 15cc's orally. Is this what you would give a 27 pound goat? Also, I'm thinking a b12 shot might not hurt either. I'm debating on worming her also- but I dont want to overwhelm her with all these meds! It makes me so nervous.
> 
> This afternoon, my husband had to give her the penicillin because I hate giving her the shots. She hollers and sounds just like a baby- I hate it! I know it has to be done- but it sure isn't easy! I keep waiting for her to have a reaction, or something horrible.


We give Red cell here at 6 ml / 20-30# every 6-8 hours for 24 hours, then once per week until better.  So 6 ml would be the dosage (orally) for your goat.

A B-12 shot certainly wouldn't hurt and may be helpful.

If you're concerned about worms, then get a fecal done.  I wouldn't throw that into the mix unless you have to.


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## Roll farms (Jun 4, 2012)

I like Elevan's dosing schedule for itty bitty goats.  (Mine are all bigguns)

You can do a B shot daily, she'll pee out any extra and I know B vit certainly helps me when I don't feel perky.


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## PattySh (Jun 4, 2012)

Poor little doeling (poor you to have to go thru this!), how is she doing today?  Sounds like you are doing a great job caring for  her. I would not deworm during an injury.  Sounds like she has fluid accumulation and swelling from the wound. Watch it if it  heads towards her chest or she is "fluidy sounding when breathing" which may mean fluid around her heart or in lungs. Keep her up and moving if possible rather than laying prone. I would also keep the deep wound covered. at this point possibly using a fly ointment around the bandage and use duck tape if you have to to keep it on.  I've seen what maggots can do (hidden wound under duck feathers) and you want to prevent them. Although the time has passed to use it for this goat, I ordered a skin stapler for such accidents (Jeffers).  If you shave or clip area around a fresh wound you might also be able to apply steri-strips (butterfly strips) to hold a wound closed (pharmacy). Good idea also to keep hemostats on hand (stop artery bleeding  (wound or umbilical cord)or hold edges of wound together while you staple etc). They have been lifesaving here a few times. I am still learning about meds for goats so I will leave that area to the more experienced.


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## marliah (Jun 4, 2012)

I'd use comfrey salve on the wounds. I prefer herbals to pharmaceutical drugs.


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## nuts4goats (Jun 4, 2012)

Good news! Molly is looking like a champ today. The swelling under her jaw has dissipated considerably. I did go ahead and get some red cell and gave that to her, and will probably keep that up for a few days to help counteract her blood loss. (thanks for the pointer, Rolls). Also, her wounds are looking terrific. I almost have the deep one scabbed over enough to uncover. I've been swabbing it with iodine. It's still draining a little- but only clear fluid with no foul odor (thank you God!) Today i only dressed the deep wound and covered with one thin layer of vet wrap to hold the sterile guaze in place to try to get more air to it. My plan is to turn her out tomorrow with the others, with her wound still covered, and then maybe Wednesday see how it looks and try to at least uncover for a bit and see how she does. As long as I can keep the others from re-opening it from horse playing I think we will be good to go. Have to get some fly ointment too before we uncover for safe measure. 

This could have been so much worse...thankful she's hanging in there. Close call! Thanks everyone for all the tips! I'm always learning something new!


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## bonbean01 (Jun 4, 2012)

So glad Molly is doing better!!!  You've been the best goatie Nurse/Doctor/Mommy for her!


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## Roll farms (Jun 4, 2012)




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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 4, 2012)




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## elevan (Jun 4, 2012)




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## PattySh (Jun 4, 2012)

That's AWESOME news.


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## terrilhb (Jun 5, 2012)

That is fantastic news.


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## bonbean01 (Jun 5, 2012)

So happy she is doing better 

A question...about those dogs....do you know who owns them and is there any way to be sure they will not do this again?


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## nuts4goats (Jun 5, 2012)

Thanks everyone! Our gate was accidentally left open and she got out of our fence. The dogs belong next door. The dogs are actually not bad dogs, but they are territorial, and she was on their turf. She wandered into their yard. It was only one that attacked her, the other was a bystander according to my daughter. The dogs arent aggressive towards my kids or me- Theyve always been good dogs? I guess it is an instinct to chase something that runs?  I have no idea.We added a second lock to our gate to keep it from happening again. I think it was partially hinged and she probably pushed it open. There is no way the dogs can get into our fence. It's very secure. I suppose if anything was really determined to get in they could, but it wouldn't be easy. Our fence is tight and high and their dogs dont roam. And the goats are close to the house so we can keep a close eye on them, and can hear everything.  BUT, with that said, I'm not afraid to shoot a bb gun, or a high powered rifle (whichever is warranted)if  I ever see them close to my goat lot!

Molly is out with the others today. She is still not 100%, but getting stronger every day. The swelling is much better around the neck, and almost completely gone from the jaw.  I think the red cell is really helping her. She really lost a lot of blood. Had my daughter not been here and held pressure I am certain she would have bled to death. We got really lucky. I am so glad they were home!


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## Four Winds Ranch (Jun 6, 2012)

Congrats!!!!   
you have done an excellent job with her!


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