# How do you approach this?



## madcow (Nov 5, 2013)

My neighbor a couple of days ago showed me that she has let some friends put 2 beautiful Nubian does in a small penned in area (8 x 12) with a shelter on her property.  These 2 does are the friends' children's youth fair projects.  I am distressed about it because they have the mistaken idea that the goats should have only goat feed twice a day and nothing else and of course there is nothing for the goats to forage on in such a small area.  My neighbor loves our goats and she's worried about these 2 cuties too not getting what they need.  The owners come twice daily to give the goats feed and check on their water.   My neighbor (who doesn't own goats and never has) has told these people that the goats need hay too and they told her that it would bloat them.  I am so tempted to go and give these goats some hay, but I know that would be wrong, especially since they are fair projects.  I have a book on goats and I think I am going to put in a ziplock bag and hang it on the fence for them with my phone number inside asking them to call me if they need information on goats.  It's a very kid friendly book with lots of pictures.  What do you think?  I can't stand that these 2 beautiful does at not getting enough to eat.......


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## bonbean01 (Nov 5, 2013)

That sounds like a very good idea and hope they read it and take you up on your kind offer to phone you about it


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 5, 2013)

I would try to catch them there and hand deliver the book.
I would explain to them exactly how wrong the information they had regarding hay causing goats bloat actually was.
You should also invite them to meet your animals.


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## jodief100 (Nov 5, 2013)

They have gotten some bad information from a meat goat producer.  While I personally find this distasteful, a lot of meat goats for the fair are raised this way.  It does prevent them from getting "hay belly"  where their bellies stick out to the side.  Hay belly isn't bloat, it just looks like the goat is bloated.  Hay belly is Normal and Healthy.  Since meat goats for the fair are terminal animals, it doesn't matter that it prevents the rumen from developing, the animals are for slaughter and will be killed before they die from septis when the rumen rots away.

I am saying this because perhaps this is how you need to approach it.  Tell them you think they "misunderstood"  the information they were given.  That it is not bloat and you can only raise terminal meat animals this way- not dairy does.  This may be less confrontational.  I suggest talking to your neighbor and then directly to her friend. If you can convince the neighbor, her friend may be more willing to listen. I doubt she wants to see her kids be devastated when their projects die.  Try to be very clear- hay (or any long stemmed fiber) is needed for the rumen to develop.  Clear, but polite and as non confrontational as possible.


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## jodief100 (Nov 5, 2013)

had to add...

If the goats have been out there for more than a week without any hay or grass, the rumens may have shut down already. They need to restart them.  Plain yogurt may work but the best way is to steal a cud from another goat and give it to them.      not kidding.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Nov 5, 2013)

Stealing cud, now that sounds like fun......


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 5, 2013)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> They have gotten some bad information from a meat goat producer.  While I personally find this distasteful, a lot of meat goats for the fair are raised this way.  It does prevent them from getting "hay belly"  where their bellies stick out to the side.  Hay belly isn't bloat, it just looks like the goat is bloated.  Hay belly is Normal and Healthy.  Since meat goats for the fair are terminal animals, it doesn't matter that it prevents the rumen from developing, the animals are for slaughter and will be killed before they die from septis when the rumen rots away.
> 
> I am saying this because perhaps this is how you need to approach it.  Tell them you think they "misunderstood"  the information they were given.  That it is not bloat and you can only raise terminal meat animals this way- not dairy does.  This may be less confrontational.  I suggest talking to your neighbor and then directly to her friend. If you can convince the neighbor, her friend may be more willing to listen. I doubt she wants to see her kids be devastated when their projects die.  Try to be very clear- hay (or any long stemmed fiber) is needed for the rumen to develop.  Clear, but polite and as non confrontational as possible.


That's a good point.


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## elevan (Nov 5, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

> jodief100 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


x2


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## meme (Nov 6, 2013)

For fair, most people I know only give their meat goats and lambs a small handful of hay and a huge amount of grain each day. At fair this year, the person next to us had one Nigi with a bowl of grain 24/7 and no hay. It amazes me how people don't even bother to try learning about their goat's basic needs.


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## madcow (Nov 7, 2013)

I am happy to say that they took the book, but I have yet to see any hay added to the pen, nor have they called me.  All the advice everyone has given me has been great.  How the  heck do you steal a goat's cud without having your fingers taken off?  They haven't been there a week yet, maybe 5 days at the longest.  Maybe they will call me.  I do hope so.  I am so tempted to just put a little hay in there that I know they will consume before they come for the evening feeding just to be sure they are getting a little bit to keep their rumens going until they figure out what's best for these goats.  Poor babies, and they are so blasted pretty.  I think I am going to watch closely today to catch them when they show up and talk to them to ask if they got the book or not.  I'm sure they did, but it would be a good intro to get the ball rolling.  I think that will be my next step.  I hate to give the goats some hay and then something happens to them because of it.  Rather a sticky situation.  I'll keep everyone posted as to what happens.  Thanks so very much for all the help.  You guys have reassured me that helping out is the right thing to do in this situation.


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## Amarisus (Nov 7, 2013)

Poor goats  Keep us updated!


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## chicken pickin (Nov 7, 2013)

I do hope you get a chance to introduce yourself and be able to offer your advice and opinions to them. And I really hope they are happy to gain knowledge from you and change the way they feed so they and their children can have happy and healthy goats. Keep us posted Id love to hear what they have to say.


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## BrownSheep (Nov 7, 2013)

Just going to throw out that a lot of show feeds ( for lambs at least) have alfalfa in them. 

If this was me I would just have your friend introduce you as an experienced goat owner. If they want help they'll ask. Just through out unwanted advice can lead to contention with some people ( especially with 4-H show moms)


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## madcow (Nov 8, 2013)

Well, still no change from these goat owners.  I've taken 2 handfuls of alfalfa hay over to these 2 goats on 2 occasions and both times they have gobbled it up, which is not surprising.  I wrote a very nice, informative letter (3 pages!) to them today telling they may have been misinformed as how to feed their goats and left it for them.  I even told them the best place to buy high quality hay and how much it would cost for a 100-pound bale.  Yesterday I spent extra time out with our goats waiting on these people and didn't catch them come and feed their goats.  Today, I saw their water had been refilled, but I'm not sure if Jackie, my neighbor, did that for them.  In the letter I also told them they needed to have something raised for the goats to get up on when the ground is wet.  I'm betting they don't know how much goats hate walking or lying in mud or getting wet, and I mentioned they could avoid some potential health problems by giving them a platform, bricks, or something off the ground to sleep on.  We have black, clay-laden dirt here that holds water like a sponge and this year we've had a really wet fall here in central Texas.  Those poor goats had to just stand in the mud all the time for days when it rained earlier this week with no dry place to lie down.  I again invited them to come and visit me and also to come and see my goats.  Their goat pen is only about 20 feet from ours.  I also told them about this website as a good place for information on goats.  I hate this......I will just have to keep waiting and see what happens.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 8, 2013)

Been watching this thread. 
I really commend you for taking the time to help the people.
Hopefully they will take heed to your advice. 

I agree with Brownsheep-


> If this was me I would just have your friend introduce you as an experienced goat owner. If they want help they'll ask. Just through out unwanted advice can lead to contention with some people ( especially with 4-H show moms)



Some people are just stubborn and hardheaded... I deal with it all the time in working with LGD breeders.
Maybe they will show up on CL and you can get them!


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## meme (Nov 9, 2013)

So sad.  Last year my lovely drug dealer neighbors were left with a horse and they stopped feeding it after it ran out of hay. They once tried to tie it out on a plastic tie out made for dogs, and I am the one who found the poor thing on its back with all of its feet tied and deep gashes on its legs from the wire. After that, I started bringing it a leaf of hay after dark each night. Then, one day he just disappeared.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 9, 2013)

meme said:


> So sad.  Last year my lovely drug dealer neighbors were left with a horse and they stopped feeding it after it ran out of hay. They once tried to tie it out on a plastic tie out made for dogs, and I am the one who found the poor thing on its back with all of its feet tied and deep gashes on its legs from the wire. After that, I started bringing it a leaf of hay after dark each night. Then, one day he just disappeared.


That just made me sick.    I can imagine how you felt when you saw him "just gone". 
There is no cure for stupid.
Hoping the OP has better success.


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## NaturesPace (Nov 12, 2013)

i was just reading about Chaffhaye and saw this FAQ. you could tell them about chaffhaye and see if that is a better option for them.
*Will Chaffhaye reduce hay-belly?*
Yes.  Animals have less intestinal fill because less Chaffhaye is required to achieve nutritional needs. Within ten days of feeding, the stomach will begin to tuck in. This makes Chaffhaye the ideal feed for saddled and show animals.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 23, 2013)

ThreeBoysChicks said:


> Stealing cud, now that sounds like fun......


Recycling rumen's beneficial bacteria at its best!


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## Missy (Nov 25, 2013)

Any new updates? I have been following, curious of the outcome of your labors.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 25, 2013)

Yeah, what Missy said.


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