# Rejected lamb tries to access udder from the back, instead of the side



## FunInTheSun (Mar 19, 2021)

First, thank you for all the advice I was able to read about this topic in other posts!  So, hoping you can help with our current situation.

One of our ewes gave birth to triplets 3/18, early morning.  This is her third litter, but she's not been the best momma.  She had triplets last year and did OK - just pretty much disinterested.  All three of this new litter nursed soon after delivery (yea!), but momma has since decided she doesn't want one of the lambs to nurse.  Kicks and head butts the little guy every time he gets close.  So, based on advice I read in another post, we penned her.  Then, DH held her head and we got the little guy on a teat.   Last feeding was 1:30AM, but she wouldn't have let the lamb nurse without DH holding her.   We will continue this (penned and holding her) for several days, hoping momma will get accustomed to the little guy.

So, now my question:  the little guy tries to nurse from the back instead of from the side.  When DH is holding momma, we get the lamb to go to her side, but when the lamb is left to his own devices, he always goes at the udder from the back.  I couldn't find any other post that addressed this and am wondering why he does this and if we should do something?


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## farmerjan (Mar 19, 2021)

If he can get on her from the back it doesn't make any difference.... if he can nurse then let him.  Will she take the 2 okay?   You might just have to be resigned to the fact that she is not going to feed 3.... many won't.  If she is just a so/so mother, then maybe time to replace her.... have you kept any of her triplet ewe lambs and gotten them bred and having lambs?  Are they better/more interested momma's?   
Calves will do it all the time.... when I have a nurse cow I always have at least 1 on the back, 1 on each side....and if the cow has 4, I make sure they all get to nurse and they wind up doing it in shifts once they are running with the cow all the time....


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## misfitmorgan (Mar 19, 2021)

A few things may be happening....either she just isnt a good ewe to keep breeding because of not having a strong mothering instinct. Ewe's without a strong mothering instinct will often pass that trait onto daughters. If it is a ewe you really need or want the genetics from you can breed her to a ram whose mother had very strong mothering instinct and hope the ewe offspring get it. If it was her first time lambing it can usually be excused as many first timers dont are only so so mothers. 

Another option is, there is something wrong with the lamb that you can not see so she doesn't want to expend the calories to feed it when she has 2 other lambs to feed who may be healthy.

She may simply know she can not produce enough milk so decided the weakest nurser had to go.

You have a few options, you can keep holding the ewe and letting the lamb nurse and hope she has enough milk and eventually accepts him. You can remove the lamb and make him a bottle baby, Lastly you can try to co-parent him, meaning sometimes you hold the ewe and let him nurse and sometimes he gets a bottle, most ewes are not ok with this last method in terms of accepting the lamb, Also be aware he will need to nurse or have a bottle 4 times a day for the first 2 weeks, then 3-4 times a day for the 2 weeks after that.

Also I agree if he can nurse from the back he is not hurting anything by doing so.


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## FunInTheSun (Mar 19, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> If he can get on her from the back it doesn't make any difference.... if he can nurse then let him.  Will she take the 2 okay?   You might just have to be resigned to the fact that she is not going to feed 3.... many won't.  If she is just a so/so mother, then maybe time to replace her.... have you kept any of her triplet ewe lambs and gotten them bred and having lambs?  Are they better/more interested momma's?
> Calves will do it all the time.... when I have a nurse cow I always have at least 1 on the back, 1 on each side....and if the cow has 4, I make sure they all get to nurse and they wind up doing it in shifts once they are running with the cow all the time....


Yes, she's accepted the other two lambs as well as a disinterested momma would.  She sniffs the two and all is OK.  But, as soon as she sniffs the third one, she pushes him away - either through a head butt or kick.  We just got back from another feeding (9:15AM) and she was less violent with her head butting, but still wouldn't let the little guy nurse unless my husband was restraining her. 

Glad to know it's OK if he approaches from the back, rather than the side.  He does seem to have more success getting milk from the side - at least judging by the tail wagging!

For the future: We getting close to retirement and hope to do some traveling.  So, this will be the last year we breed the ewes.  We plan to keep one of this year's babies and then let all of them have a leisurely, green pasture life until we retire.  Then, off to the auction they go!  That day will be one of mixed emotions....


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## misfitmorgan (Mar 19, 2021)

Usually ewes are ok with lambs that are not "theirs" standing nearish them unless they try to nurse. She may never accept him but it's worth trying if you are heavily against a bottle lamb.


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## FunInTheSun (Mar 19, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> A few things may be happening....either she just isnt a good ewe to keep breeding because of not having a strong mothering instinct. Ewe's without a strong mothering instinct will often pass that trait onto daughters. If it is a ewe you really need or want the genetics from you can breed her to a ram whose mother had very strong mothering instinct and hope the ewe offspring get it. If it was her first time lambing it can usually be excused as many first timers dont are only so so mothers.
> 
> Another option is, there is something wrong with the lamb that you can not see so she doesn't want to expend the calories to feed it when she has 2 other lambs to feed who may be healthy.
> 
> ...


Ah, I was wondering if she might have a sixth sense about the health of the little guy.  He doesn't seem sickly, but maybe she can sense something we don't see....

We'll keep trying the "pen and restrain" method for a couple of days.  I read in another post that should give some time for momma to smell her milk in the little guy's poop and then, hopefully, accept the little guy.  Fingers crossed!  We really would prefer something other than 2AM feedings for weeks!  If things don't improve within a couple of days, I'm afraid we'll have a hard decision to make.


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## misfitmorgan (Mar 19, 2021)

FunInTheSun said:


> Ah, I was wondering if she might have a sixth sense about the health of the little guy.  He doesn't seem sickly, but maybe she can sense something we don't see....
> 
> We'll keep trying the "pen and restrain" method for a couple of days.  I read in another post that should give some time for momma to smell her milk in the little guy's poop and then, hopefully, accept the little guy.  Fingers crossed!  We really would prefer something other than 2AM feedings for weeks!  If things don't improve within a couple of days, I'm afraid we'll have a hard decision to make.


We have managed to have 3 bottle lambs at a time and never had to do 2am feedings. We did a bottle before I left for work, a bottle when DH got home, a bottle right after dinner and another before bed for the first week. 

Weeks 2-3 were 3 bottles/day - one before work. after work, before bed
At the end of week 3 we bucket trained them and gave them a bucket to share 2 times a day until 8 weeks old


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## FunInTheSun (Mar 19, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> We have managed to have 3 bottle lambs at a time and never had to do 2am feedings. We did a bottle before I left for work, a bottle when DH got home, a bottle right after dinner and another before bed for the first week.
> 
> Weeks 2-3 were 3 bottles/day - one before work. after work, before bed
> At the end of week 3 we bucket trained them and gave them a bucket to share 2 times a day until 8 weeks old


Oh, that's really good news!  I was (like I have a tendancy to do!), sticking exactly to 6-hour intervals for the 4x per day.  Sounds like we can stretch a couple and shrink a couple of those intervals slightly so we're not trekking to the barn in our jammies and boots!  THANK YOU!!

Just in case we need to start bottle feeding: I found a "recipe" in another post, but was wondering if I should heat up the mixture a bit before giving it to the little guy.  Seems like a warm bottle would be best, but would like confirmation from some experts!


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## misfitmorgan (Mar 19, 2021)

Yes I've always warmed it. There are a few studies saying that cold milk/formula can help lambs to avoid over eating and help reduce the risk of CDT however 2 CDT shots can do the same thing. The problem with feeding cold formula is it means the lamb has to use calorie to warm the milk to digest it. I always make a bottle at least lukewarm but for the first week I do make it as warm as a baby bottle.


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## Baymule (Mar 19, 2021)

We warm our bottles too. It just seems like the right thing to do.

You will retire and sell your sheep to travel. We retired and bought sheep. LOL LOL 

We put our bottle babies in a dog crate in the house. We diapered them to let them scamper around the house. Since it’s a BIG dog crate, we bought XXL puppy pads to put in the crate. We transitioned them to a small pen in the barn and finally let them loose in the barn and lot. I go out there to give them their bottles. I creep feed the lambs, so they are doing great.


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## FunInTheSun (Mar 19, 2021)

Baymule said:


> We warm our bottles too. It just seems like the right thing to do.
> 
> You will retire and sell your sheep to travel. We retired and bought sheep. LOL LOL
> 
> We put our bottle babies in a dog crate in the house. We diapered them to let them scamper around the house. Since it’s a BIG dog crate, we bought XXL puppy pads to put in the crate. We transitioned them to a small pen in the barn and finally let them loose in the barn and lot. I go out there to give them their bottles. I creep feed the lambs, so they are doing great.


Haha!  Maybe we'll figure out a way to keep the sheep and travel - hire someone to look after them while we're gone...?  I'm really going to miss them!  Oh well, we have a couple of years to figure things out!

I bet you're smiling all day - watching those babies playing in the house!  How fun!


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## mysunwolf (Mar 19, 2021)

Hey, I would highly recommend NOT turning the lamb into a bottle lamb, as long as mom is not being violent towards it. Instead, offer all 3 lambs a bottle of their own mom's milk and get them used to the synthetic nipple. Then you can offer a bottle to the triplets at any time, and if one is hungry enough (not getting enough from mom) it will take it. Then you also have no true bottle lambs and minimal extra work. 

Just some advice from a shepherd who is sick of bottle lambs! The only time we pull anymore is when the mom is actively trying to kill the lamb, even when it doesn't try to nurse.


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## misfitmorgan (Mar 25, 2021)

mysunwolf said:


> Hey, I would highly recommend NOT turning the lamb into a bottle lamb, as long as mom is not being violent towards it. Instead, offer all 3 lambs a bottle of their own mom's milk and get them used to the synthetic nipple. Then you can offer a bottle to the triplets at any time, and if one is hungry enough (not getting enough from mom) it will take it. Then you also have no true bottle lambs and minimal extra work.
> 
> Just some advice from a shepherd who is sick of bottle lambs! The only time we pull anymore is when the mom is actively trying to kill the lamb, even when it doesn't try to nurse.



In theory an excellent idea. The problem we have is if the mom doesnt have enough milk you have to feed formula, most all of our sheep will reject a lamb who is on formula because the poo doesnt smell right. Bottle lambs are fun, they get to be a pain after the first 4 weeks but really they are not that bad. I will admit this year we have zero bottle lambs and it is nice. The most we have had on bottles at once is 3 lambs and 4 goat kids, that was hectic. I know commercial breeders use milk bars but we have luckily not needed to get to that yet and have been working on breeding better stock with better mothering so the issue is working itself out.


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## Isaac (Mar 25, 2021)

She knows she can't take care of 3 lambs. If we have triplets we always pull one. we have tried leaving them on the ewe but either they turn out not as large and kind of weak or one dies. It's always better to pull the one she doesn't want. If you feed it a full 25lb bag of milk replacer it will get to be the size of the other lambs. And the thing about getting up in the middle of the night, I only do that for the first week then they are fine to make it through the night. I usually feed mine at around 10:00P.M. then at around 7:00A.M., then throughout the day, but any time would work. Hope this helps!


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## FunInTheSun (Mar 25, 2021)

Isaac said:


> She knows she can't take care of 3 lambs. If we have triplets we always pull one. we have tried leaving them on the ewe but either they turn out not as large and kind of weak or one dies. It's always better to pull the one she doesn't want. If you feed it a full 25lb bag of milk replacer it will get to be the size of the other lambs. And the thing about getting up in the middle of the night, I only do that for the first week then they are fine to make it through the night. I usually feed mine at around 10:00P.M. then at around 7:00A.M., then throughout the day, but any time would work. Hope this helps!


Actually, this ewe had triplets last year and, although I would classify her as a so-so momma, she took care of all three last year.  This year was certainly a learning experience for us - never have had a bottle baby before!  Just an update: we found a wonderful couple who has experience in taking care of bottle babies and they picked up the little guy Sunday morning.  It was so hard to see him go, but knowing he will have a home with caring people made it a little easier.

As long as I'm posting, I have a an un-related question, out of curiousity.  We rubberbanded two of the boys the other night and one of them went completely limp - dishrag limp.  Almost like he passed out?!  I picked him up so we could dock his tail and he "came to" again.  We've never had this happen before, so I'm just curious!


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## mysunwolf (Mar 25, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> In theory an excellent idea. The problem we have is if the mom doesnt have enough milk you have to feed formula, most all of our sheep will reject a lamb who is on formula because the poo doesnt smell right. Bottle lambs are fun, they get to be a pain after the first 4 weeks but really they are not that bad. I will admit this year we have zero bottle lambs and it is nice. The most we have had on bottles at once is 3 lambs and 4 goat kids, that was hectic. I know commercial breeders use milk bars but we have luckily not needed to get to that yet and have been working on breeding better stock with better mothering so the issue is working itself out.


I have never had a ewe reject lambs that were getting formula! It's interesting that this is the first year I've heard from multiple sources of this happening. I find that if a ewe wants to reject a lamb, she'll find any old reason to do so...


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## mysunwolf (Mar 25, 2021)

FunInTheSun said:


> Actually, this ewe had triplets last year and, although I would classify her as a so-so momma, she took care of all three last year.  This year was certainly a learning experience for us - never have had a bottle baby before!  Just an update: we found a wonderful couple who has experience in taking care of bottle babies and they picked up the little guy Sunday morning.  It was so hard to see him go, but knowing he will have a home with caring people made it a little easier.
> 
> As long as I'm posting, I have a an un-related question, out of curiousity.  We rubberbanded two of the boys the other night and one of them went completely limp - dishrag limp.  Almost like he passed out?!  I picked him up so we could dock his tail and he "came to" again.  We've never had this happen before, so I'm just curious!



He's fine, just in a lot of pain! Some have a lower pain tolerance than others and will be more dramatic acting because they just hurt that much more. You have to make sure they don't get too cold or overheated while they're experiencing this stressful time, which may mean keeping him and mom close (I either pen them all again, or go out to the field a few times a day to reunite mom and lamb).


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## FunInTheSun (Mar 25, 2021)

mysunwolf said:


> He's fine, just in a lot of pain! Some have a lower pain tolerance than others and will be more dramatic acting because they just hurt that much more. You have to make sure they don't get too cold or overheated while they're experiencing this stressful time, which may mean keeping him and mom close (I either pen them all again, or go out to the field a few times a day to reunite mom and lamb).


Drama King!  Poor little guy!  Thankfully his momma is a great mom - always attentive and protective and she never gets too far away from him.  The little guy was up and running around a couple hours later, although his exuberance was a bit suppressed.  Now, a day and a half after the banding, he's back to normal - bucking and jumping, etc.


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## misfitmorgan (Mar 25, 2021)

mysunwolf said:


> I have never had a ewe reject lambs that were getting formula! It's interesting that this is the first year I've heard from multiple sources of this happening. I find that if a ewe wants to reject a lamb, she'll find any old reason to do so...



We have found the same to be true in goats as well for the most part. It is not a this year thing either, first we heard of it was about 9yrs ago and first we saw it personally was about 6yrs ago. It did not matter if we used store bought formula, mixed formula with mothers milk, or used home-made formula as soon as around 24hrs passed from the first bottle they would reject and no longer let them nurse at all. As I said we have exceptions to this and have obviously not tested all of our sheep/goats.

Year before last I believe it was we co-parented with one of our goats and she was perfectly fine with it. Our sheep tend to seem more picky about making sure a lamb is their lamb before letting it nurse.


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## misfitmorgan (Mar 25, 2021)

FunInTheSun said:


> Actually, this ewe had triplets last year and, although I would classify her as a so-so momma, she took care of all three last year.  This year was certainly a learning experience for us - never have had a bottle baby before!  Just an update: we found a wonderful couple who has experience in taking care of bottle babies and they picked up the little guy Sunday morning.  It was so hard to see him go, but knowing he will have a home with caring people made it a little easier.
> 
> As long as I'm posting, I have a an un-related question, out of curiousity.  We rubberbanded two of the boys the other night and one of them went completely limp - dishrag limp.  Almost like he passed out?!  I picked him up so we could dock his tail and he "came to" again.  We've never had this happen before, so I'm just curious!



Glad you found him a good home!


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## Ridgetop (Apr 2, 2021)

Good that you found him a home  I was going to suggest you advertise him as a bottle lamb  Lots of people like to raise them.


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