# Finally 2nd calf



## Mike Fronczak (Jun 30, 2012)

We finally had our second calf this afternoon.  It appears it is a male.  Black just like his half sister. You forget how little they are when born, she is 8 weeks today and huge comparativly.


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## Royd Wood (Jun 30, 2012)




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## Mike Fronczak (Jun 30, 2012)

The first cow that gave birth, picked the calf up with her horns and flipped him over, he seems ok.  We just seperated her & the older calf (8 week old) off.  Luckily this mom is very friendly with us, the other one is not so.  She didn't eat the afterbirth which the other did (I think), which is normal & any signs of a problem ?  Another question as well, the about herd matiach (first one that gave birth), she isnt the easiest to work with, I would say almost semi-aggressive, I always just accepted it, but after being in the pasture with out her there the other two cows seem more at ease, as we were as well, after what she did to the calf, my wife is ready to send her to the freezer & replace her.  Is this how all herd martiachs act or will one of the two friendly cows just assume the position & the rest will learn from her ?  It is nerve racking, this is only our second calf, we have only had them less than a year.


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## greybeard (Jul 1, 2012)

Has she always been this way--or just since she has had the calf?
I've seen lots of cows that were just a little testy all the time, but once they drop a calf, ya have to give them some room.  And, that's not always a bad thing.  But if matriarch always has been and now is even more fiesty and difficult to be around, you might want to trade her in for a better dispostioned cow--especially since she is horned.


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## Mike Fronczak (Jul 1, 2012)

Yes she has always been like this for the most part.  We didn't dare go near her calf.  The other two cows come up to us until she spots them doing it.  This cow was almost seeming to encourage us to interact with her calf.  All three of our mature cows were halter trained at one point the previous owner said.


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## Mike Fronczak (Jul 1, 2012)

Checked on them all at 6 am, the new calf was up walking around then latest down again his moms utters are still really swollen, possibly so much so he cant feed. I can't tell if he is feeding or not, he has tried but wether or not he fed I can't be sure, as soon as she saw me she started mooing to get my attention ??? My hope is he is feeding and he just doesn't eat as much as she is producing.  While she is friendly, I don't think she has ever been milked, nor have I ever done it so feeding by milking her & bottle feeding is probably not an option.
The matriarch is on another pasture with her calf (8 weeks old), I put our bull (Bubba)in with them.  She is having a fit being away from the other cows, making all kinds of noises.  She tried to get pushy dropped her head and pushed him, didn't work he gave it right back.  I couldn't be happier with him,  she probably has 400 lbs on him, and 18" of horn, his previous owner "de-horned" him, fortunately he didn't do that right either they are growing back (about 2-3" now), so he will end up with the "rodeo look" with the stubby ended horns.  He is such a good boy (laid back, calm, probably one of the friendliest of our cows, doesnt beg, etc) so if he can put her in her place that's even better.
I had to go to TSC this am anyway, going to grab a bottle and smallest container of milk replacer just in case.


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## Cricket (Jul 2, 2012)

Cows can be such a joy to have around, both their interactions with you and with their other herd members.  Having a cow that constantly has to be on top can throw off the whole dynamics and you end up not enjoying any of them.  I think your wife has the right idea!  It sounds like your other cows might be as relieved as you to see her go.  With her gone, you might not even notice who becomes the boss--with mellow cows it can be pretty subtle.

First calf heifers esp can have bags and tits that are hard as rocks--the calf nursing should help that.  Does she stand for the calf nursing or keep batting him away?  I would think if he wasn't eating he'd be doing a LOT of bellering.

Maybe when one of your nice cows is further along in lactation, like 3 or 4 months, you could have a go at milking--it'd be a good thing to know.  At least learn how to use your thumb and first finger to strip in case you ever need to check for mastitis.  One of those things you'll hopefully never need to know, but you feel better for it anyway!

Good luck and PHOTOS!


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## Mike Fronczak (Jul 2, 2012)

The mom isn't supposed to be a first time mom,  I am taking the previous owners word on this, but I have no reason to doubt this guy.  The other two cows i know for sure are not; one came with her calf, the other currently has a calf.  We finally got him bottle feeding decent this morning, I had to make slits in the nipple much larger,   so far today we gave him two quarts of collestrum supplement & a quart of electrolyte, my wife is out there now giving him another of colestrum, we are shooting for every three hours/quart of collestrum or electrolyte till the collestrum pack is gone, then milk supplement.  ALL the cows are back in the pasture with him and ALL (even the bi$&h, as my wife affectionally refers to her) have actully been helpful, it like they know something is wrong.  He try's to nurse but doesn't find the nipple.  He is still trying and the mom continues to coax him, I just don't want him getting run down or de-hydrated.


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## Mike Fronczak (Jul 3, 2012)

The Rocky road with him continues, mom left him in the pasture in full sun most of the day yesterday, until I moved him (carried) into a horse stall at 5pm, because he wouldn't move.  Giving up on keeping him with mom, we had to tube feed him a quart of electrolyte, ice cubes in his mouth, a large fan on him, any thing we could think of to cool him down.  We ended up getting 2 quarts of colestrum & 2 quarts of electrolytes in him yesterday (through out the day).  Really thought we were going to loose him last night, he wouldnt hardly move, didn't make a sound. I let him sleep last night went out a 6 this am, he was still asleep, but breathing, I woke him up, got him moving around & gave him a pint of electrolyte, he wanted more went after the bottle, but I'm thinking trying smaller more frequent feedings to keep him moving, switching to milk replacer today, hopefully by the end of the day no more electrolyte, planning to alternate the two till end of day.  He curled back up & he went back to sleep.  His mom is freaking out looking everywhere, making all kinds of racket, I did leg her in the aisle to see him, but no further.


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## Cricket (Jul 3, 2012)

Is he peeing and pooping?  Do you stand him up occasionally?


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## Mike Fronczak (Jul 3, 2012)

Cricket, 
Yes he is peeing & pooping (2 times each that I know of).  My wife got him to drink some milk replacer (I think a pint or so), then when I got home at 2pm I tried, he wouldn't take the replacer, tried the electrolyte slammed the first pint wanted more, gave him a second, then snuck the replacer back in and he drank that, figure that he likes sugar.  He was up the entire time & active, then got him to follow me around for about 5 minutes in circles in the stall, he is back laying down with the fan on him now.  His belly looks much better now.  His mom is flipping out pissed but I really don't care at this point, I'm trying to do what is best for him.
A question is the eltrolyte more important or the milk replacer, I know in people you will die from dehydration quicker than starvation, is it the same idea, where hydration is more important than food ?


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## redtailgal (Jul 3, 2012)

I'd give him the electrolytes for the remainder of the day, then tomorrow give him some replacer, but only half strength.  Make a pint of replacer like normal and add a pint of electrolytes to it.

If all goes well, no scours, tomorrow, I'd make a pint and a half of replacer, and add half a pint of electroyltes.

the  next day, if all is well, go to full replacer, but add a little yogurt (activia is what I use) or probios to the mix.


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## Mike Fronczak (Jul 3, 2012)

My day went from rocky to god only knows.  We were/are supposed to go to/be in my sisters wedding out of state on Friday, Thursday pm is tge rehersal.  My wifes uncle (he raised the steers with me last year, has raised horses, pigs, never young calves though),was originally going to just come over fill/check water & check cows and chickens, he said he was good with taking the calf to his house & putting him in a horse stall over there (so he only had to come over to check others once a day) and coming over to water the other animals.
  We are in final stages of situating everything, my son comes in and says "we have another baby calf", my first thought was this calf snuck out of the stall into the pasture.  Nope, the third (and last) pregnant cow delivered a little girl.  The good news is this one & mom have their act together already feeding as she should be.  The mom who's calf we had to bottle feed was interfering some so she is now in with our bull & steer for the time being.  Our bull is freaking out with all the hormones in the air, not getting agressive just lots of belowing, following her around, etc. 
  The bad news is I dont feel right dumping this off on my uncle, so I'm sticking around to make sure the first 24-36 hrs go ok, sent my wife, kids & sitter (family friend), planning on making the trip once the first 24/36 hours passes.  On a good note the one on the bottle is doing very well, taking bottle while standing on his own, he can polish off 2 quarts now with no problem & chase you for more, urinating & pooping, thank you for all the help.  Hopefully things settle down.


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 9, 2012)

Any chance you could try to pawn the little "orphan " dude off on the new mom? Might make life a whole lot easier....if she is a mellow and accepting sort.....Maybe if the calf will nurse, your uncle could tie up the new mom for a few minutes a few times a day so he could nurse???? I don't have cows (I do want one ), but that would be my first thought to try.  
Good luck with him. Good luck with the wedding too


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