# Here I go again asking for help



## Roy and Vicky (Apr 10, 2012)

Duh is about 2 months old now.  I'm giving him 1.5 quart of milk replacer mornin, noon, and night.  Is that enough?  He looks thin, I can see his hip bones.  He refuses to eat the calf starter, he refuses to drink from a bucket.  He's munching on grass. I have him out about 7 hours a day now, worked up slowly like I read.  no sign of scours, no diarrhea, I boost him up about 1/2 hour every few days and see how he does on pasture.  But he's not making any headway and that worries me.  He's fiesty, oh boy is he fiesty.  I've got him walking on a lead now which is great.  I can take him from his pasture area back to the chicken coup with just his bottle and of course he knows he's going to get it so he follows right along.  The dang birds are eating more of the calf starter than he is lol.  Is it okay to give him some hay? and if so how much at a time.


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## currycomb (Apr 10, 2012)

hay is pretty safe to give all he will eat. maybe a little sweet feed to get him started eating grain. not much, a handful to start with, then you can add other feeds as you go. if he had a friend he could copy eating the grain and hay.


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## Cricket (Apr 10, 2012)

If he's getting filled up on milk, he doesn't really have any incentive to switch to grain.  Some of them are just slower to deal with the change..  I ended up getting a 2nd bag of milk replacer for my steer (his name should have been 'Duh', too!)--he won that round!  I'd cut back on his milk--if he's healthy, he won't starve himself to death!


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## redtailgal (Apr 10, 2012)

Cricket said:
			
		

> If he's getting filled up on milk, he doesn't really have any incentive to switch to grain.  Some of them are just slower to deal with the change..  I ended up getting a 2nd bag of milk replacer for my steer (his name should have been 'Duh', too!)--he won that round!  I'd cut back on his milk--if he's healthy, he won't starve himself to death!


I gotta agree with this.  I'd go to 2 quarts twice a day, and let him get hungry enough to eat that grain.  You can mix a couple tablespoons of karo or molasses (i prefer to use molasses in his grain to gain interest then ease back on it as he starts eating it better)

Dont be afraid to stuff some grain in his mouth so that he will understand that its food.


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## Roy and Vicky (Apr 11, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

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he is so flipping stupid it's not even funny.  I have put milk replacer in the grain and nope he won't touch it unless I feed it to him.  He flips the bucket of grain over.  He is so dang thin I'm afraid not to feed him lol.  I'll try the molasses and see if that will attract him to it.  He'll put his head down and eat the dang grass but won't put his head in a dish or bucket to eat grain, go figure!!  Oh he is definitely so DUH!!!

He seems to be healthy, he jump and bucks around, he's quite comical.  I can lead him around the yard with his bottle, or now on the harness.  He sleeps and eats grass and his bottle and plays around.  if the birds go in the kennel with him then he jumps and bucks around them.  I still wish I had a partner in crime for him, but calves are very scarce here this year and very expensive!


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## redtailgal (Apr 11, 2012)

Can you post a pic for us to see how skinny he is?  I cant remember what breed he is, but some of them will go thru a "stage" where they grow taller and suddenly look skinny.  Getting him on grain will really put some weight on him.  

I really do recommend cutting his feeding to two feedings a day of 2 quarts at each feeding.  He'll only be losing half a quart of milk, but it will increase his hunger during the day, encouraging him to graze better and giving him more interest in that grain.

Hold his noon bottle and let him get good and hungry, then take your molasses and offer the grain mid afternoon.  Try it in a low pan, sometimes they dont like sticking their head in a bucket that obstructs their vision.

Oh....no more hand feeding.  He is training you.  lol, I've had one do that to me.  It makes things harder, and the longer it continues, the harder it will get.  Time for some tough love on the little guy.  If he is bucking and playing, he is not hurting for nutrition.

If he feels he must have your hand to eat grain, put your hand in the pan he is eating out of, but dont let him eat from your hand.


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## Cricket (Apr 11, 2012)

I'd really work at getting him off the bottle and drinking out of a bucket, too.  He needs to get the idea that the good stuff in life comes from a bucket.   I'd just skip the bottle, leave the milk bucket for him and leave town for a few hours.  Try putting the bucket in a milk crate.

As RTG said, a lot of times they go thru 'skinny' periods.  My steer always looks a little on the bony side (I didn't make a great pick, there!), but then I'll notice he's shot up a couple of inches.  I've yet to hear of a calf that will starve itself to death from sheer stubborness!


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## dragonmorgan (Apr 12, 2012)

I agree. 2 feedings should be plenty. He wont starve himself so if he gets hungry enough that grain will start lookin pretty good. I kept a little out for our calf all the time for her to nibble on. To start her off I put some in my half and let her taste it and then slowly moved my hand down to the trough. She figured it out pretty quick that the same thing in my hand is whats in trough.


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## Roy and Vicky (Apr 12, 2012)

dragonmorgan said:
			
		

> I agree. 2 feedings should be plenty. He wont starve himself so if he gets hungry enough that grain will start lookin pretty good. I kept a little out for our calf all the time for her to nibble on. To start her off I put some in my half and let her taste it and then slowly moved my hand down to the trough. She figured it out pretty quick that the same thing in my hand is whats in trough.


I tried some in my hand and moving it down to the dish but he would eat til the palm of my hand got near his mouth then he just wanted to suck BLAH!!!!!  Yesterday I tried some Karo syrup on the grain, no go he turned up his nose and nibbled on the grass.  Today I put some molasses on it and bingo he ate probably 2 cups of it so I was happy!!!  I have his dish down in a milk crate as suggested, he tries to scratch his head on the milk crate now!!!! and would tip it over if i didn't have it in a corner.  I'm soon going to have to tie everything down out there!!  

This weekend we're going to try to get him out of the chicken coup.  I have him on the lawn nibbling from about 9 am til 5 pm and no signs of diarrhea so i'm excited..  Gotta get his little over hang cleaned out and ready for him.  He needs more area to move around in.  Is hog panel going to be high enough to keep him in?  I'm thinking not he bucks and jumps around pretty good when I take him out of the dog kennel and back to the chicken coup for the night lol


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Apr 13, 2012)

Roy and Vicky said:
			
		

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All I can tell you is that we have had a 400 pound steer scale a 4 1/2 ft wooden fence from a stand still.  As he gets bigger, he will start rubbing on the hog panel and everything else that he can reach.  Will it keep him in?  Maybe.  Do you want to be chasing your cow all over the countryside like we did?  Nope!


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## redtailgal (Apr 13, 2012)

Well, chasin cows IS good exercise.


If you have access to a fence charger, it would be a good thing.  Electric fence will do the trick.

If you dont have one, good luck!


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## Roy and Vicky (Apr 13, 2012)

The hog fence area would just be for about two weeks.  After that he'll be out in the big pasture, we just have to have time to get a section of it fenced off for him so that he is easier to deal with out there than about an acre of pasture lol I guess I can always wave the bottle at him.


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## Cricket (Apr 13, 2012)

One thing that I've found to work well is to give them grain in a 'special' bucket--ours is the magic blue bucket.  Then if he gets out or you need to catch him (or 'gasp' load him in the beef truck), he'll just think he's going for happy food.  People laugh at you (and NOT kindly!) if you're waving a bottle in a big old steer's face, esp. if it works.


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## redtailgal (Apr 13, 2012)

lol, I've gone out waving a bottle at a big ole steer before.  Let them laugh!  They just dont know the good life when they see it.

One thing I do with all my animals is the "secret code word".  Its a method that I picked up when training hawks.  It worked AMAZING with them, so I thought I'd implement it with my other critters as well.  When I feed them, be it their meal or just a treat, I say the same word before I give give them the food. The goats hear "who's hungry" the dogs hear "wanna bite", and the iguana hears "food time".  It works.

I can go out to the pasture and yell "here goats" and get IGNORED.  But when I say "WHO"S HUNGRY"...........It looks like a lil goatie stampede. jus' don' git in da way!


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## Roy and Vicky (Apr 13, 2012)

I Love it LOL.  I can see me out there yelling here Duh !!!!  I guess I always call him Pretty Boy so maybe that would work.  

When I take him over to the kennel in the daytime I put the harness on him, he doesn't always like it but he's learning there is grass and yummies over there for him so he's going a little better now.  When it's time to go back of course I have his bottle in my hand so he's very eager to go with me.  I mess with him a little and let him kick and play around.  usually Roy is out there with me and he'll go from me to him and do a little shoving to see if either of us is going to give him the bottle, it's rather cute.  When he's being "loving" he'll walk around me just rubbing against me or put his head against my leg and push up and down my leg with the top of his head til I reach down and pet him.  He loves under his chin rubbed and will raise his head up so I can rub him.


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## WildRoseBeef (Apr 13, 2012)

Uh oh, I think someone's teaching someone some bad habits!   Now would be a good time to teach him that rubbing his head on your thigh or leg is bad.  You're teaching him that rubbing his head on your leg is good because you keep wanting to pet him.  You'll have to start to NOT pet him when he does this, and pet him when he DOESN'T rub your leg.  It'll be a hard habit to break, but it'll do you good when he gets to be a big steer!


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## redtailgal (Apr 13, 2012)

A couple years ago, I raised out a Holstien steer, he grew to be the size of an elephant by the time he was a year old.  I named him "Beuford" but I called him "good lil cheeseburger", and he liked me.  Only me.  Wouldnt lead for anyone but me, head butted other people, was a general PITA to everyone else.  But, I had the secret.  If you scratched Beuford just under his ear, almost going into the ear with one finger, he would literally roll his eyes back in his head and MOAN.  He would lean into it so bad, that if I pulled my hand away, he would almost fall over, even when he was 1600 pounds!

and just in case you are wondering, he WAS a good cheeseburger!


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## Roy and Vicky (Apr 13, 2012)

I am absolutely rotten with him.  He's spoiled, this i know.  I'm just counting the minutes now til I get to go home from work to see if he ate any of his grain today!!!  Hopefully this afternoon I'll get some pictures posted to show how scrawny he is!!!  Freaks me out!  

I try to walk him around the yard some before i put him in the kennel to keep consistent on him being in the harness.  It's a homemade one, but until he grows into the other one it works for now, except when it slips off his ear when he's bucking around lol.  

Red I can picture you out there rubbing a big ass steers ear and leading it around hehehe.  I want to be able to do that with Duh so that it's easier to deal with him.  

I want to get him out of the chicken coup as soon as possible so I can get it cleaned up and ready for some fast grow chickens and get it insulated so we don't have to worry about freezing water in the winter.  

I'm pretty excited for more animals!!!!!  Want chickens in the coup, pigs in the pig pen area, and garden in it's area.  Gotta thin out the raspberrys this weekend they have over taken part of the chicken yard since it hasn't been used in years and the raspberrys are as big as your thumb and delicious but they need to be tamed!!!!  

Since we signed the paperwork on the house, I swear sometimes we just sit there and stare out in the pasture and dream of Duh out there running around and the garden up and going.  Roy has about 70 tomato plants at the house that are looking wonderful, man does he have a green thumb!!  he has my buttercup squash going, red warty pumpkins, and straight eight cukes.  I've got a ton of flowers going, holy cow, chinese lanterns, a few different colored pansys, nasty's, carnations, zinnias, coleus, and i'm sure i'm forgetting a few.  There is not a free window sill in our house, then there is a shelf with some of the tomatoes on it under grow lights, and an office desk with lots of plants on it under grow lights too.  and fans running everywhere to condition then to be outside!!!  Some of the tomato plants are close to a foot tall now !!!!!!  YUMMY


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Apr 13, 2012)

rtg,  Unitl you mentioned it, I didn't even think of a secret word.  But I guess we have one too.  When we go out with the feed buckets, we tell them, "line up" and they do.  

Yep, all of those cute little bad habits that we encourage before we know the difference.  We still have one steer that wants to chew on your clothes all the time.  He'll do well for a while and then right back into it. 

Can't wait to see updated pics of Duh.


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## Roy and Vicky (Apr 15, 2012)

I put up a few pics of Duh in a new thread.


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## Roy and Vicky (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm not sure if Duh has the scours again or not, but he has diarrhea today.  A few times looked like butterscotch pudding, one looked like very watery stools.  I stopped milk replacer and gave him a quart of pedialyte, go figure this town only has flavored pedialyte so he had strawberry for supper LOL I gave him one quart and I just checked on him and the stool looks light brown and puddingy again, so for breakfast I'll give him 1.5 quarts of pedialyte and see what it all looks like when I get home from work tomorrow.  I haven't done anything different.  He has been out in the pen for 10+ hours a day, twice a day feeding of milk replacer 2 quarts and grain with some molasses in it for a week now.  nothing has changed UGH why is he showing signs of scours or is he okay?  

Between life stressers and now him he's really stressing me out big time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Cricket (Apr 20, 2012)

I'd really cut back on the milk if he's getting grain, too.  Also try giving him hay instead of grass.  It sounds like he has an overloaded system.  Watery stools could be worms or cocci., but if they improve when you cut back on his feed, it's probably overfeeding.  (Try to think of overfeeding a calf as giving chocolate cake to a child who has been vomiting--might help you harden your heart!)


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## Roy and Vicky (Apr 20, 2012)

I'm never sure how much milk replacer to give him to go with his grain.  Cut back to 1 quart twice a day on the replacer and slowly wean him off it?  He enjoys the grass and munches good so i know he's eating and what the birds don't eat of his calf starter grain he eats about 2 cups or so a day.  

I wish I had more experience with calves.  I'm so glad I found this forum to keep us straight!


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## redtailgal (Apr 20, 2012)

Do what your doing to get him over his runs.  I'd take him off the grass for now.  I'd work to start cutting back on the molasses as well.

Then once you reintroduce the milk, I'd cut back to two quarts once a day, and see how he does.  If he is eating grass and grain good, it's time to cut back on the milk.  When I cut back to one bottle a day, I like to do it in the evening because I think that filling them up with milk in the morning caused them to not graze as well.  But, that's just me, others keep the morning bottle and do just fine.

There is no real reason to panic over puddin' poop, it happens to us at times.  Maybe he got a bite of something that disagree'd with him

If it continues or worsens, I'd consider a fecal, he is at a good age for a coccidia problem and also worms.  Of course, I do agree, he may just have an overloaded belly and his body is telling you it's time to ease up on the milk.  It's about this time that his mother would start walking away some when he tried to nurse.


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## Roy and Vicky (Apr 20, 2012)

the Puddin poop didn't bother me much, but when he lifted his tail and it shot out like water I was like ut oh, no milk for you tonight and we went and got pedialyte.  Wanted to at least be preventative.  There was a pudding poop in his yard last night, nothing this mornin so i'm hoping that when i get home it will be the same .  I'm figuring tonight on pedialyte and if all seems good in the mornin then pedialyte in the mornin then 1 quart of milk tomorrow night, sound about right?

I'm using less and less molasses, only use about a teaspoon stirred into the grain then a drizzle on top to get his attention otherwise he just ignores it.


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## redtailgal (Apr 20, 2012)

SOunds to me like your doing just fine.

Your plan works for me!


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