# Copper Bolus Dosing Question??



## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 13, 2010)

So I went to Jeffers and they have Copasure..for cattle.  Smallest dose they have is for 150-300lbs calf????  Manufacturer recomends not splitting capsule??  Soooo....

Am I missing something??  Is there a capsule for goats???


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## ksalvagno (Dec 13, 2010)

No you just split the capsule. I'm sure they don't recommend it because you would want to give the whole bolus to a cow. For Nigerians, I just split it in thirds.


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## lilhill (Dec 13, 2010)




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## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 13, 2010)

Ok...sooo..next question..how do you give it to them once split up??? And it is actually "rods" ???  Do you use a Balling gun???    

Sorry...I never had to give it...so Im curious and If Im gonna I dont wanna do it wrong...

Thanks for the help!


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## jodief100 (Dec 13, 2010)

I just ordered some myself and would love to have some additional guidance about the dosing.  

I found something online that they recommended giving 1 gram of the copasure for every 22 pound of goat.  From what I understood, you open the capsule, measure it out and put the rods into a new gelatin capsule.  Is this correct?  I ordered empty capsules and a balling gun along with the copasure.  

I would prefer not having to measure out every capsule individually.  I would either have to catch them all twice, once to weigh and the other to dose or I would have to have someone hold on while I measure.   Really dont want to do either.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 13, 2010)

There's a lady that sells them and she does 1.5 grams of Cu per gel cap to treat 33 lbs.

And Jodie, can't you just make up the boluses before you go out to do the herd? You can make all the gel caps the same dose, that way you know how many boluses you need per goat and can bolus them that way.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> Ok...sooo..next question..how do you give it to them once split up??? And it is actually "rods" ???  Do you use a Balling gun???
> 
> Sorry...I never had to give it...so Im curious and If Im gonna I dont wanna do it wrong...
> 
> Thanks for the help!


Yes, you use a balling gun.


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## greenfamilyfarms (Dec 13, 2010)

For our Boers, we just use the whole capsule. For any under 150 pounds, you'll have to divide it up.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 13, 2010)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> I just ordered some myself and would love to have some additional guidance about the dosing.
> 
> I found something online that they recommended giving 1 gram of the copasure for every 22 pound of goat.  From what I understood, you open the capsule, measure it out and put the rods into a new gelatin capsule.  Is this correct?  I ordered empty capsules and a balling gun along with the copasure.
> 
> I would prefer not having to measure out every capsule individually.  I would either have to catch them all twice, once to weigh and the other to dose or I would have to have someone hold on while I measure.   Really dont want to do either.


Thats what I read too...I think Im gonna weigh and right that down and make the capsules..


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## babsbag (Dec 13, 2010)

I have the copper sitting in a box waiting for me to do something with it 

I don't have a balling gun and wouldn't know what to do with it if I did. I am going to try this with my goaties. 

http://www.goatspots.com/copper.html

Marshmallows seem like more fum IMO. I will start taking them some with no copper in it to see if I can get them to eat it and go from there.

Mine are also low in zinc, but I have an injectable for that. Wish I had one for copper.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 13, 2010)

You buy empty capsules to put the rods in. For the Nigerians I buy 00 capsules. But you could probably buy a bigger size for the full size goats. It is a little bit of a pain but not that bad. I have to admit that I just used my finger and shoved it down their throats. I'm going to try and see if they like marshmellows and then put the capsule in a marshmellow.


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## helmstead (Dec 13, 2010)

I don't fuss with capsules.

I do 1 cc per 60 lbs...cut off the tip of a luer slip syringe, pull the plunger down to where I need it for that goat, pour in the rods right out of the capsule, cap the open end of the syringe with probios paste...and shoot it into the back of their mouths.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 14, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I don't fuss with capsules.
> 
> I do 1 cc per 60 lbs...cut off the tip of a luer slip syringe, pull the plunger down to where I need it for that goat, pour in the rods right out of the capsule, cap the open end of the syringe with probios paste...and shoot it into the back of their mouths.


That sound easiest!! And if you miss a few..they just become ineffective correct???  

I think "down the throat goat" method  should work for my guys!!  Also you wont have a dry capsule to concern yourself with!!

Great idea!! Thanks!!


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## Mo's palominos (Dec 14, 2010)

I am very new to goats and was just wondering at what age do you bolus them for the first time ? Can you bolus them while they are preggers? When is the best time of year to bolus? Or does it really matter? Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to mess it up.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 15, 2010)

Helmstead - don't you have to worry about the rods getting into the right chamber of the stomach? On another thread it was really stressed that the rods had to attach onto a certain part of the stomach.


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## helmstead (Dec 15, 2010)

Horsepucky!  Myths:  A)  you can't let them chew the rods or it changes some critical part of the rod - horsepunky!  The rods aren't manufactured to some specific size, if you look, they're all different sizes.  Chewing affects little.  B)  well, I've never even heard that one about a specific stomach.  Ever noticed how quickly a capsule dissolves?    The rods are expected to disperse throughout all 4 chambers, as well as it is also expected a great many get pooped out.  They will do their job no matter what chamber they get caught in.  The copper is absorbed directly through the lining as it degrades...not through any special digestive process.  Most rods will, by default, settle into the rumen and reticulum.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 15, 2010)

Good! I thought giving the copper bolus was such a big deal and worrying about if it went into the stomach before the capsule dissolved. Putting it in the syringe would make life so much easier.


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## greenfamilyfarms (Dec 15, 2010)

How often do y'all give the copper bolus?


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## cmjust0 (Dec 15, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Horsepucky!  Myths:  A)  you can't let them chew the rods or it changes some critical part of the rod - horsepunky!  The rods aren't manufactured to some specific size, if you look, they're all different sizes.  Chewing affects little.


Disagree.

They're manufactured to have a "specific gravity" that causes them to lodge in the folds of the abomasum, and they're very brittle..  Chewing changes the specific gravity and allows more of the dose to pass through the animal without being utilized.



> B)  well, I've never even heard that one about a specific stomach.  Ever noticed how quickly a capsule dissolves?    The rods are expected to disperse throughout all 4 chambers, as well as it is also expected a great many get pooped out.  They will do their job no matter what chamber they get caught in.  The copper is absorbed directly through the lining as it degrades...not through any special digestive process.  Most rods will, by default, settle into the rumen and reticulum.


Yes, the capsule will almost certainly dissolve in the rumen, but the rods are designed the way they're designed so that they'll keep travelling through the GI until they reach the abomasum, where they'll become trapped in the folds and dissolve slowly.

If you can dose copper oxide wire particles without the animal chewing them up, that's fine...it's the same as a bolus that way.  But if there's any chewing, they're making copper oxide wire POWDER and it's just gonna go right through the animal.


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## helmstead (Dec 15, 2010)

Sorry CM...HORSEPUNKY.  Specific gravity isn't related to size...or they'd be uniform in size.  And, really, if it goes from mouth to rumen with or without a capsule cannot possibly make enough difference to matter.

Anyway, for 2 years+ now...it's worked for me.

As far as how often...in GA I needed to bolus them every 6 mos.  Here, in Indiana, it's looking like I can go more like 8-10 mos.


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## cmjust0 (Dec 15, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Sorry CM...HORSEPUNKY.  Specific gravity isn't related to size...or they'd be uniform in size.  And, really, if it goes from mouth to rumen with or without a capsule cannot possibly make enough difference to matter.


No, it doesn't matter how it gets from mouth to rumen..  What matters is if they chew it into powder, which they will if given half a chance.  



> Anyway, for 2 years+ now...it's worked for me.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 16, 2010)

Got it!! Thanks all!!


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## mully (Dec 16, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I don't fuss with capsules.
> 
> I do 1 cc per 60 lbs...cut off the tip of a luer slip syringe, pull the plunger down to where I need it for that goat, pour in the rods right out of the capsule, cap the open end of the syringe with probios paste...and shoot it into the back of their mouths.


Thanks for this tip ...seems so easy (Ilike easy) ...I will try it this way next time.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 16, 2010)

mully said:
			
		

> helmstead said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree!!!  No fuss...! Like it!!


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## ksalvagno (Dec 19, 2010)

Kate - I copper bolus'd the boys today and used your way. It was SWEET! 

I can't believe how easy it is. I will never fear copper bolusing again.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 19, 2010)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Kate - I copper bolus'd the boys today and used your way. It was SWEET!
> 
> I can't believe how easy it is. I will never fear copper bolusing again.


I liked that idea too!! So glad it worked well!! Sounded the easiest so far!!  Nice to hear it was easy!!!


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## freemotion (Dec 19, 2010)

Mo's palominos said:
			
		

> I am very new to goats and was just wondering at what age do you bolus them for the first time ? Can you bolus them while they are preggers? When is the best time of year to bolus? Or does it really matter? Sorry for all the questions, I just don't want to mess it up.


   Ya'll missed this person...


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## ksalvagno (Dec 19, 2010)

You can copper bolus them at any time. I just copper bolused a pregnant female. I'm not sure on how young. I had to copper bolus a 4 month old this past summer. When they start showing the signs of copper deficiency, then copper bolus them. Although I will probably do it at least once a year. But I'm not sure if I will do the whole herd at once or different times.


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## Calliopia (Dec 29, 2010)

So.... I got a Jeffers GC for Christmas and  everybody has been dosed... 


 Now what do I do with the other 24 capsules  (L) 


I REALLY wish these had come in smaller packages.  Anybody need copper?


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## ksalvagno (Dec 29, 2010)

Save them for the next round. You will probably have to copper bolus again. I'm planning to copper bolus at least once a year. The copper isn't going to go bad.


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## rebelINny (Dec 29, 2010)

I have to get some copper boluses as well. I know all my goats need it. My original herd of 8 and their kids don't seem to deficient at all but the new herd that I bought in Aug looks very deficient. They have been getting free choice trace minerals with copper and selenium but it isn't enough. I dosed them with Sel/Vit E a few weeks ago and now I need to get the copper. Is it just me or do goats require ALOT of work LOL!
Too bad I love the goats so much......I would have a much more lazy life without the whole crew ya know!


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## Our7Wonders (Dec 29, 2010)

Calliopia said:
			
		

> So.... I got a Jeffers GC for Christmas and  everybody has been dosed...
> 
> 
> Now what do I do with the other 24 capsules  (L)
> ...


If your serious, I would definately consider purchasing a few of the capsules from you - I only have two does and HATE the thought of having to buy so many.  I know they last, and, well, it's copper, so they don't expire, but still, that's one more thing I'd have to store and keep track of.  You can PM me if you'd like - and if your were just kidding, that's ok too - but I figured it didn't hurt to ask.


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## freemotion (Dec 29, 2010)

rebelINny said:
			
		

> I have to get some copper boluses as well. I know all my goats need it. My original herd of 8 and their kids don't seem to deficient at all but the new herd that I bought in Aug looks very deficient. They have been getting free choice trace minerals with copper and selenium but it isn't enough. I dosed them with Sel/Vit E a few weeks ago and now I need to get the copper. Is it just me or do goats require ALOT of work LOL!
> Too bad I love the goats so much......I would have a much more lazy life without the whole crew ya know!


I suspect that there is a reason why there are no wild goat herds in most of the US and Canada....They may only thrive in areas with certain minerals in the water, soil, or trees.  I wonder if they would do better on browse only....but how many of us have enough browse to support a goat population?  Mine cleared out my pasture in a matter of weeks, now I have a lovely, grassy pasture that would be perfect for horses....when I had a horse, I battled tall weeds, saplings, brush, you name it.... 

It is so interesting to me that we never wormed our dairy goats or gave them mineral or goat feed when I was a kid, and never had issues with them at all.  Ever.  The well was tested a couple of years ago and it was very high in copper!


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## Calliopia (Dec 30, 2010)

I messaged you re the copper bolus.


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## Calliopia (Jan 10, 2011)

So my girls got a 1/2 dose the day it arrived and a 1/2 dose a week later and OMG. The difference in their coats is already showing.  So in less than 2 weeks I'm already seeing softer, thicker, shinier coats and the only change has been the addition of copper.


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## ksalvagno (Jan 10, 2011)

Good to hear. i copper bolus'd my boys and they are looking better as well.


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## glenolam (Jan 10, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> do 1 cc per 60 lbs...cut off the tip of a luer slip syringe, pull the plunger down to where I need it for that goat, pour in the rods right out of the capsule, cap the open end of the syringe with probios paste...and shoot it into the back of their mouths.


So - can you make the probios paste out of the probios powder?  I have so much powder it's rediculous & don't want to buy something I already have!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 10, 2011)

Yes you can use the poweder!! I just did that!!! I used a little water...and very little molasses.  If you put too much molasses it wont move nicely through the syringe.  I had to get creative and I use a larger mouth drenching syringe but it worked well once I got the consistency down.

It took me a couple tries of mixing it the bowl before I actually added the copper....but It was a fabulous idea...and it worked great!!!!!  Sooo easy!!!!  It was like walking around giving paste!!! Easy peasy!!
Recomend it highly!!!  

I wieghed and measured out everyones dose...sucked up the paste and added their copper indivdually!!!  Very pleased with how it worked out!!

Thank you Kate!! Great Idea!!!

Hope it works out for you!


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## chandasue (Jan 10, 2011)

Are you all doing this in addition to free choice loose minerals? I'm just not seeing signs of copper deficiency in my goats and wonder if this is necessary if they're getting enough from their minerals?


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## ksalvagno (Jan 10, 2011)

If they are getting enough from your minerals, then you don't need to copper bolus. The copper bolus would be done if you are seeing a deficiency or know your area is more deficient and you start doing it on some sort of schedule because of deficiency problems in the past.


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## Calliopia (Jan 10, 2011)

We basically live in a limestone and shale quarry. There's not much of anything beneficial here and I have to supplement everything apparently.  I knew we were selenium deficient and I didn't realize the difference the lack of copper was making until I added it in.


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## chandasue (Jan 10, 2011)

Ok. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.


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## glenolam (Jan 17, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I don't fuss with capsules.
> 
> I do 1 cc per 60 lbs...cut off the tip of a luer slip syringe, pull the plunger down to where I need it for that goat, pour in the rods right out of the capsule, cap the open end of the syringe with probios paste...and shoot it into the back of their mouths.


I just used this method yesterday - got to say it was easy!  I made a paste from Red Cell and probios, cut the tip off the syringe, poured the rods in at that dose then put a little of the paste on the end.  Carried the doses out all in a little cup with the tip up (my paste wasn't as pasty as it could have been) and figured out on the 2nd to last goat that they willingly would take it!  I rangled 4 of them and shot it down their throats, then after sweating just held it out for the 5th to sniff and she sucked it right up!  Rods and all!  Tried it with the 6th and got the same response.    At least they all got it now!  I can't wait to see the difference in a few days/weeks.  My little nubian buck sure needed it.


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## jason_mazzy (Jan 17, 2011)

how do you know when or if you have to bolus? I have goat pellets unlimited hay, and I give her minerals. if I gave her a bolus would it be an overdose?


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## glenolam (Jan 17, 2011)

The bolus is given to boost the copper level in goats.  The signs differ from goat to goat, but I could tell my little black nubain buck needed it because his black hair was starting to turn red and his winter coat hasn't come in very well.  He's too thin and just not looking as nice as I'd like him to be.

Here's an article: http://www.jackmauldin.com/health/copper_deficiency.htm


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## pride&joy (Jan 6, 2012)

Where can I find the capsules? I looked at Jeffers but could not find it?


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 6, 2012)

pride&joy said:
			
		

> Where can I find the capsules? I looked at Jeffers but could not find it?


I saw them on jeffers. 

copasure. 


http://www.jefferslivestock.com/copasure/camid/LIV/cp/16535/

and I ordered the gel caps, since we give them as a bolus



http://www.jefferslivestock.com/product.asp?camid=LIV&pn=0040314


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## pride&joy (Jan 6, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> pride&joy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you


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