# Looking at getting some Meat Rabbits



## mickey328 (Oct 4, 2012)

Hi folks...hoping for some of your expert advice.  Hubby and I are looking into having some meat rabbits for our own use only.  There's just the two of us, so we don't need a lot.  We're thinking of building a 4 cage hutch outside, and starting with a buck and 2 does.  One cage for the girls, one for the boys, one for nesting and one for a grow out pen.  I've been scanning the posts and think (for the moment) we're fairly up to date on feeding and breeding and such, but I'd welcome any advice you'd be willing to share.  I'm thinking of going with rabbits that generally have litters of perhaps 3 to 6...we don't need great big litters like the Calis throw.  Maybe Standard Rex?  The plan (unless you advise against) is to breed one doe, and then breed the other about the time the first litter is transferred to the grow out cage.  Can the does be housed together when they're not pregnant?  If so, we'd put the does back together when the second litter was ready for a grow out cage and put them in the cage vacated by the first bred doe.

We get some awfully hot weather in the summer, so I wouldn't breed during that time at all.  So ultimately I think we'd be looking at perhaps 6 litters per year all together.

Whatcha think?

Thanks!
Mickey


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## lastfling (Oct 5, 2012)

Sounds like a plan except for the part of housing the doe's together.  You may run into some issues doing that.  I would house  buck and does in their own separate cages.  The does cage could be big enough for a nest box when needed eliminating the need for a separate nesting cage.  The 4th cage could be your growout cage.  Just a thought.  I would also breed both does at the same time, so that if one had issues you could foster the kits off to the other as necessary.


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## animalmom (Oct 5, 2012)

Lastfling has some good points.  I too would house the does individually, have a grow-out cage and would breed both does at the same time just in case you need to foster off some kits.  My does are each in a 30" x 36" cage and I have Cali/NZ crosses.  This cage is just fine for the doe, the nesting box and the kits.

Something I've noticed is if I leave the kits with the mom until they are older, like 6 weeks, the meat is more veal like.  OK, yeah well duh, milk fed etc.  Doing this messes with a breeding schedule and I find myself always having the last litter just as the heat of summer hits.  This may not be a problem for you.

I can't advise on breeds other than the Cali/NZ cross, which I like a whole lot, size good, make great moms, litter size 7-9, few problems breeding and just flat out mellow rabbits.

Having rabbits for your own meat production is a matter of economics.  The plus side is you know where the meat came from and get the enjoyment out of watching the rabbits especially the kits discover their world.  Depending on your set up the rabbits don't breed all year, but you do need to feed all year, clean cages all year, water all year... you get the picture.  You may want to rethink small litter size as a benefit and go with a larger litter size.  Same amount of work for you to feed mom and 4 kits as to feed mom and 8 kits.  Feed wise you may decide with a larger litter size that you can only breed the two does twice a year instead of 3 times and extend the time the kits are with the mom.  3 litters of 4 each is 12 kits where as 2 litters of 8 each is 16.  You may find it interesting to see that you reach into your freezer more often for rabbit than you thought.  Great meat, low calories, lower cholesteral than chicken!

Just my 2 cents.


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## mickey328 (Oct 5, 2012)

Thanks!  Definitely some food for thought there.  Can 2 does be housed together when they are raising kits, or did I mis-read your suggestions?  I see the sense in breeding at the same time...both for fostering and when it's time for them to be weaned, they can go in the same grow out cage since they'll all be the same age.


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## animalmom (Oct 5, 2012)

I STRONGLY advise AGAINST having does share a cage.  The darlings get territorial and if you have two feeling that way... well just think about being 12 years old and sharing a room all day, every day, with your sister.  You sisters would just argue back and forth until Mom or Dad stepped in.  Here there is no Mom or Dad and arguing includes some very sharp nails.

One doe, one cage, happy doe.

Two does, one cage, not a good idea.  Stepping into the middle of a doe disagreement = many painful slashes on your arms and hands... and a few choice words.

Can two sisters, from the same litter, be raised together for several months... probably.  Get one pregnant and 
'watch the fur fly", as they say.

As I say, just my 2 cents worth.


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## mickey328 (Oct 5, 2012)

I did mis-read it then, thanks!  I figured they'd get pretty darned territorial when they were breeding; that's why I thought I'd just clarify it  

So, if we have 3 cages of 2' x 3'...one for each of the buck and 2 does, and then have a double sized cage where we could put two litters for grow out...would that work, do you think?


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 5, 2012)

I recently (in the last year) got meat rabbits-2 does and a buck.  I have 3 large cages, but I had to house my does together for a while until I got my 3rd cage. They were sisters, and I got them young, so they did ok until they were about 6 or 7 mos, and then one kept bullying the other.  I definitely agree with the keeping them separate.  Also, for your grow out cages, you may want more than one.  I have a large grow out cage, it's about 3'X3', and I had a litter of 12 in there. They grew out of it very quickly...so if you're going to breed both does at once, you'll want at least 2 grow out cages.  

I know it's recommended to breed 2 does at the same time, but I prefer to stagger breed mine.  I just don't want all those babies at once since I have limited space.  I am thinking of doing a communal grow out for my next litter. I've got a big stall in my barn and I was going to try just housing them all (the babies, once they're weaned) in there until it's time for the freezer.


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## mickey328 (Oct 5, 2012)

Thanks!  I appreciate the input.  Our space for cages is somewhat limited, so we're still deciding how we want to do it.  We'll likely expand when we get some acreage but that won't be for quite a while.


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## lastfling (Oct 8, 2012)

I breed rabbits primarily for show and not ones known to be meat breeds.  My rabbits lean towards small litter sizes, and on more than one occasion a small litter equals 1 kit.  That is when having another mom comes in handy as the singleton can be fostered to the other and the original doe be re-bred.  Bringing a nestbox to the house every night and back to the rabbit barn in the mornings because the singleton is unable to maintain body heat by itself gets a little old after while.  Fostering helps avoid this.  On  my litters sizes run from 3 to 6 usually, probably averaging 4.


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## mickey328 (Oct 8, 2012)

Points well taken and thanks!  DH and I talked it over (he has experience with buns and I don't) and what y'all have said makes perfect sense.  I'm now thinking I may try a cross with a Cali or NZW.  It may give us a sort of mid-sized litter, ya think?  If we have just one grow out cage, I'm thinking it might be a bit crowded if we had 2 big litters all in there at once.  If the litters averaged about 6, it seems like that would be just about right for us.  

Would 3 litters a year (leaving them to rest during the hot) be too taxing on a doe?  Should the buck be smaller than the doe, or does it matter?  Not talking dwarf or giant stock here, of course.  How long would one leave the kits with the mother?  From what I've seen, they're ready to butcher at about 8 to 10 weeks?


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## lastfling (Oct 8, 2012)

I see a lot of folks using the NZW/Californian cross for their meat herd.  It seem to be a pretty popular cross and I would think has its merits for so many people to be doing it.  As for litter sizes, sorry, I don't have the experience with the mentioned breeds to know that.  I don't believe 3 litters a year would tax the doe at all.  I too lay off breeding my does during the summer heat, breeding primarily in spring and fall while aiming to have litters weaned before the hot weather arrives in force.  I'm expecting my first fall litters this week as a matter of fact.  A rule of thumb is small buck to larger doe, although unless you're talking a large disparity between the breeds in size I don't think its going to matter.  Maybe some of the meat breeders will chime in with some answers to your questions regarding litter sizes, weaning, etc.  I usually leave mine with the doe for 6 to 8 weeks, but again, I'm not raising /breeding for meat.  I think I've read that 5lb is fryer size and would be there in the 10-12 week range or sooner.  I'm happy for 2lbs in 8 weeks for my Tans with a mature size of between 4-6lb (breed standard)  aiming for the mid-4's.


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## mickey328 (Oct 8, 2012)

From what I've read, the Cali's and NZW's tend to produce large litters (9 to 14) and the kits are fast growing.  At least to start, I don't think we'd need litters that big.  They're a sort of medium sized rabbit, which will suit us just fine.  I was thinking if I bred them to a standard buck, we'd still get the nice, medium size and maybe smaller litters.  I dunno...never done any of this before so I reckon it'll be an experiment...and I'm grateful for ALL comments, suggestions and advice.


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## lovinglife (Oct 8, 2012)

My NZ/Cali doe has always had 9 - 10 in each litter.  My SF doe has 8 - 9, don't count on smaller litters...    At one time my bunny barn was jam packed!  Had to get some to freezer camp.   Ahhhh roasted rabbit with potatoes and garlic...   ummmmm


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## DianeS (Oct 8, 2012)

You have very good, basic questions here. Here's how I do it. 

If I have more than one doe, I breed them both at the same time. 

Buck the same size (ish) or smaller than the doe. You just don't want large breed kits trying to make their way down the birth canal of a small breed doe. But two Californian rabbits, one 10 lbs and one 11 lbs? That won't matter which is which. If you don't SEE a size difference I wouldn't worry about weighing or measuring, it's close enough. 

A Californian and New Zealand mixed breed kit is considered ideal because it eats the least amount of feed while putting on the greatest amount of muscle. It's just something about that particular mix. Either parent can be the Cali and either can be the NZ, it's getting the kits that half-and-half mix that is ideal. (Note, that's why Giant breeds are not good meat rabbits - their early feed consumption goes into creating bone rather than creating muscle.)

There are NEVER guarantees about litter size. There are breed standards, yes, but they're just averages. Remember if you get more rabbit than you want all at once, you can let some of them grow longer, you can freeze the meat, you can pressure can the meat, you can invite friends to dinner. But if you get too few... you're stuck still feeding the adults without getting the payback you want. 

Four to six litters per year is pretty "average" and won't stress a doe out at all. More litters than that might stress one, but there's not even a guarantee about that. I try to get bak-to-back litters in the spring and fall, to avoid the extreme summer heat when they tend to be sterile anyway, and to avoid the winter cold when kits are more likely to freeze. It improves the number of kits I get to the weaning and butchering ages. 

And I have large cages for my does, and tend to butcher at 8 or 9 weeks, so I rarely use a grow-out cage. They stay with mom in her cage. Now, if I have a large litter that looks crowded in there, all of them (including mom) can go into the grow out cage. Or, if I need to grow out a litter longer than normal they can use the grow-out cage. But I don't usually require one. If I need to wean the litter before mom weans them naturally, I start by removing one or two of the largest kits. Then a day or two later the next one or two largest. Etc. But normally I let mom wean the way she wants to. Doesn't hurt kits to still be in with mom even when she's not nursing, as long as nobody is too crowded. 

Hope that helps!  You seem to be on the right track. Don't over-think it.


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## mickey328 (Oct 8, 2012)

That's great advice, thanks!  How long do they typically nurse?  I didn't realize I could leave the kits in with the doe...that would be a great space saver.  How long after weaning would you breed her again?  Our summers can get really hot, and although our winters aren't usually really cold, but I'd still like to avoid stressing them.  We definitely want kits for meat but only for our own use...we're not going into major production, and I want the breeding stock to be as comfy and happy as we can make them.

I'm now wondering if we should wait till spring to get our breeding stock.  At this point, we don't have cages so it would be probably a month before we could get and breed any.  Not sure I want them kindling in December...might be kinda cold then.  Maybe getting them around February and breeding in March might be better.  I'm thinking we could get two litters before the heat sets in and then another couple in the fall when the temps cool off.


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## DianeS (Oct 8, 2012)

My does have seemed to get annoyed with the kits when they're anywhere from 4-6 weeks of age. She'll spend more and more time on top of something, or laying flat on her belly, to keep them from nursing. She might tolerate one nursing from time to time, but if they gang up on her she'll just hop away and lay down again. It seems mostly finished by 6-7 weeks of age. 

When I lived in Colorado I had to breed as soon as possible to fit litters in the narrow spring and fall timeline there - so I'd breed mom back to the buck as soon as the litters were 4 weeks old. (But just once, so two litters in spring, a long summer rest, two litters in fall, a long winter rest, repeat.) I don't do that here in Oregon where the weather is milder. I butcher the kits around 8 or 10 weeks of age,  wait two weeks, then rebreed mom. That's a really relaxed breeding schedule, you could definately do that schedule year-round if you wanted to. They breed more often than that in the wild. 

The right cages and rabbits don't always come along when we want them to. If I were you, I'd start accumulating things now. That gives you the luxury of looking around for the best cages at the best prices. As soon as you have a cage, go ahead and fill it. You can look around for the best rabbits at the best prices that way, too. No hurry. Doesn't hurt for the rabbits to get familiar with their surroundings and you to get familiar with them, before you want to breed. 

When you do breed them for the first time, expect total failure. MANY rabbits don't have a clue what to do with their first litters, and they often die. Not always, but often enough that this is a good caution to give new owners. If the first litter of each doe dies, it is NOT something you did wrong. It's just their ignorance. Usually the death is because they were born on the wire instead of in the nestbox, or mom didn't pull enough hair to keep them warm, or mom doesn't feed them enough. Their instincts kick in after that and the second and later litters should be fine. You may want to take that into consideration in your timing. Time that first breeding and litter so that you have plans for it if it lives, but it doesn't wreck your plans if it dies.  

Hope that helps!


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## mickey328 (Oct 9, 2012)

It certainly does, Diane, thanks so much!.  At this point, we're thinking DH will build the cages....he's very handy and has built them before.  My thinking was to have them for a month or so before breeding...to let us all get settled in and used to each other.  I kind of figured it would cost less to not have to feed them for *too *long before we start breeding.  I sure wouldn't bring them home and have them get right at it...that'd just be asking for trouble.  When we got our chickens we were totally unprepared...we'd been talking about it for several months when suddenly the "right birds" came along...exactly the breed and age we were looking for.  Fortunately the lady we got them from lent us a good sized rabbit cage to house them in while DH built the coop, and we stopped at the feed store on the way home to get food for them.  It was nice weather, so we tarped the cage and made a temp pen for them and had the coop done in about 3 weeks.

I don't want to be caught with our pants down like that again, LOL.  This time...cages and feed first, then rabbits!  If possible, I was hoping to get one doe who'd had a litter or two as well as a younger one.  Would you have any suggestions as to how I'd go about finding breeding stock?  Seems most of the breeders around here stick with show and pets rather than meaties.  The few I've seen seem to be into the Flemmish Giants, which, from all the reading I've done, have poor meat to bone ratios.  

So, if mom has them weaned at 6 to 7 weeks, do you leave them in with her till you butcher, or do you move them to a separate cage?  And, if the cages are about 30" x 36" is that enough room for the litter and the mom?


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## DianeS (Oct 10, 2012)

It can definately look crowded in there with a larger litter and mom together, in the last week. But everybody seems to be able to move when they want to. As long as they can all lay down at the same time, and can all fit their heads in at the feeder and waterer, I don't worry about it. I only move them to a larger cage if they can't lay down or feed/water properly. Like in case of a litter of 11 or 12, and I'll see that issue coming so I'll move them all when they're a couple weeks old - mom and litter together. 

You'll quickly get a sense for what you like and don't like. Some of it is just experience. And more is preference. 

I tend to get my rabbits from Craigslist. It does take time to find appropriate stock from that, though. I think I got taken one time with a rabbit that was much older than I was told. Supposedly an excellent breeder and mother was 2 years old, but despite numerous breedings to a proven buck, she never took. That usually means she's too old. I've also gotten rabbits I had to treat for ear mites before I could do anything else with them, but that's a small issue in my book. Craigslist rabbits also don't usually come with pedigrees.

The upside of rabbits from Craigslist is that they're cheap. I've never paid more than $20 for one, so at that price I can afford the occasional dud. I've gotten them as cheap as $4. And my current buck and doe I got for free. 

I check all the areas around me where I'm willing to drive. I go to their Craigslist site and type "rabbit" into the search in both the Farm and Garden for sale section, and in the Pets community section. My Californian buck was someone's pet until he grew up and got hormonal. My American Chinchilla doe was supposedly from really good lines, a man got him at the fair for his kids to do 4H shows, but then the kids lost interest. Both ran "free" ads, I responded and was completely honest about what I'd do with them (that I breed rabbits for meat, I was looking for more breeders, the adults have a good life in large cages with good care, but that I would breed them and use the offspring to feed my family). For the really inexpensive ones I usually have to move fast. I've left home at 8:30 at night to drive 30 minutes for my current doe, I was first in line for her but he didn't want to wait until the next day. 

Now, if I had money, I'd go to rabbit shows. And I'd talk to the winners in any breed that is good for meat rabbits, and I'd ask if they have any for sale. Some want to sell their winners, some want to sell relatives of the winners, some have extra rabbits that just don't fit into their breeding plans anymore. Those rabbits will be pricey. But you know they meet the breed standards (which includes size and amount of muscle), and you know they were well taken care of, and you'll get a lot more information about the rabbit, litter sizes in its family, etc. Plus you'll likely get the pedigree. Pedigrees make it easier for YOU to sell your rabbits if you want to in the future. It will also come with an ear tattoo, which is useful if you get more than one rabbit of the same breed - helps with telling them apart. But the price! I've seen show winners advertised for sale at $80. I just don't have the cash for that. 

If you can find anyone else in your area who breeds meat rabbits, you can probably buy young ones from them. I'd certainly sell my young ones if someone were interested. I can either butcher a 5 lb rabbit for dinner, or take maybe $10 for it and buy something else for dinner. Same difference for me. It's just that most little operations like mine don't advertise so we're hard to find. 

Hopefully one of those avenues will work for you!


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## mickey328 (Oct 10, 2012)

Hehe, since I want to breed for meat, I'm a bit hesitant to tell pet or show breeders...I'm afraid they'll freak out.  Of course, I'd keep the breeding stock and just butcher the kits, but still.  

Earlier this year we responded to a local lady who advertised free bunny poo (we got lots for the garden) and she was really nice.  She breeds the "cute" ones but I was thinking she may well know folks who have rabbits that might be suitable to breed for meat...having an "in" locally would sure help.  Like you, I certainly don't want to spend a ton of money; that would pretty much defeat the purpose.  Sure don't need pedigrees and pure bloodlines and all that when I intend to cross them anyway.

Our "local" Craigs is for pretty much all of northern Colorado be even so I don't see many ads for anything other than Flemmish or fancy breeds.  I'll keep digging though...it'll happen when the time is right.  Told DH today that he needs to get a building soon so we're ready when it happens    It probably won't be "pretty" but it'll be functional.  Ultimately I'd like to have a shed to keep the cages in but for now we'll put them behind the garden shed, next to the fence so they'll have a good windbreak on 2 sides and we'll be able to tarp or otherwise protect the other.  Come spring, we'll rig up a roof of some sort to provide shade.

Really starting to get excited about this project now!  After all your generous sharing of info, I feel much more confident and eager to get started.  Thanks for your patience and generosity!


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## CochinBrahmaLover=) (Oct 10, 2012)

animalmom said:
			
		

> Lastfling has some good points.  I too would house the does individually, have a grow-out cage and would breed both does at the same time just in case you need to foster off some kits.  My does are each in a 30" x 36" cage and I have Cali/NZ crosses.  This cage is just fine for the doe, the nesting box and the kits.
> 
> Something I've noticed is if I leave the kits with the mom until they are older, like 6 weeks, the meat is more veal like.  OK, yeah well duh, milk fed etc.  Doing this messes with a breeding schedule and I find myself always having the last litter just as the heat of summer hits.  This may not be a problem for you.
> 
> ...


OK this is completely random but basically backing up your facts. 

If your say, lost in the wilderness and all you have for food is wild rabbit, you will DIE because rabbits are so lean, you will get practically NO fat, and die.

OK good bye....


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## lovinglife (Oct 10, 2012)

Very true about the fat part, which is why if you are feeding dogs raw and using a lot of rabbit, they will not get all they need.  HOWEVER, I know in my house, there is no shortage of ....ahem....fat....I am not in danger of starving from lack of fat...   LOL


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## mickey328 (Oct 10, 2012)

I hear you on that, LL!  I'm hoping to use rabbit to replace beef about 2 or 3 times a week, although DH and I have enough of that other stuff stored to live off it for several months, LOL  Still and all, we're omnivores and just aren't built to live on just one type of food.  We need a good mix to keep healthy.  I know the vegetarians will disagree but imo, we need it all...fruit, veg, meat.

DH is heading out to start collecting materials for our hutches this morning.  Yay!  Hopefully he'll have them ready to go in a week or two so we'll be ready.


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## Harbisgirl (Oct 10, 2012)

Yay, I love this thread - exactly what I was looking for. Would any of you mind showing pics of your nesting areas? I'm curious as to what that looks like


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## DianeS (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't have a nesting "area", just a nest box. I put it in mom's hutch 28 days (or so) after breeding, and keep it filled with hay. Mom tends to eat it the first day or so, but then she settles down, and somewhere around day 31 she pulls fur, stuffs it in the nest box, and has her kits in it. At least, that's the way it's *supposed* to, and the way it *usually* does. Not always though. I've had does dump the nest box (I just keep putting it back upright), pee and poop in the nest box (I keep cleaning it and replacing it full of fresh hay), or eating all of it (I give her half a cage full of hay to eat in addition to her food).  

This is quite similar to the boxes I use: Blue stackable storage bins  It's what I had, I used it with my first rabbit, and it worked so well I've just continued. 

I use it the normal way until the kits are outside the box more often than they're in it. Then I flip it upside down, giving the kits somewhere to go (underneath) if the weather turns bad, and giving mom somewhere to go (on the top) to get away from the kits. 

Hope that helps!


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## mickey328 (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks Diane.  You don't have issues with them chewing on the bins?  I had figured to eliminate as much wood from their environment as possible both to reduce their chewing and for ease of cleaning.


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## DianeS (Oct 12, 2012)

For some reason they've never chewed this plastic nestbox. Don't know why. I have a couple water bowls that are plastic and they certainly chew THOSE!  I expected that sooner or later one would start chewing the side of the box, and that would be my cue to change to metal nestboxes, but it simply has never happened. 

As for wood, I agree to remove that where you can. Give them the occasional stick to chew on, it helps keep their teeth worn down and keeps them busy. But you do want to avoid wooden nestboxes or resting pads when you can, beause they are terrible to clean. Unless it's so cheap you can replace it, of course.


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## mickey328 (Oct 12, 2012)

Maybe they're too busy with babies for the short time the nest boxes are in there?

I didn't realize bucks spray, but DH said on his cages before he was always having to replace chewed and stunk up wood, so he wants to stay away from it as much as possible this time.  Makes sense to me...how could you ever get it really clean anyway??


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