# Help very bloated, won’t eat, butterscotch pudding out the rear



## Carla D (Nov 24, 2018)

i have another goat crisis. One of my 8 week kids is in trouble. He wouldn’t leave his little goat house not even for a bottle or attention. He was quite bloated, more than the bloat look after having a full belly. He had loose stools that resembled butterscotch pudding in color and texture. I called the vet to see what I could possibly do for him and what to look for. I had done a dressing change on his head earlier today. He was very much himself, prancing, pushing others to get his bottle, and some attention. Very typical Jack. Tonight I went to feed my boys and Jack didn’t bother to get up. Not to greet me as I entered, not to try and escape, not even when I waved his bottle in front of him. There was a large amount of feces in the house, on other goats, and in their area. The only things different these last three days was I ran out of our typical formula and had to get another brand that they’ve had in the past a couple of times. That was three bottles, then back to their regular. The other change was when we cleaned all of their old bedding out of their entire area we replaced it with a few corn husks and remnants from the neighboring field after he harvested it. They had plenty of hay options, feed, water like they always do.

My vet told me to release the dressing on his head, that may have been on too tight. I took it off, but it wasn’t on tight at all. He had gotten partially off as well. She told me to try and get him to burp by laying him down and slightly rolling him, massaging his belly, get him to walk around. Those didn’t get him to burp, but he did duty a small amount. He’s belly is large even on both sides, not rigid, but not soft either. It was only slightly further back that his typical full belly look. He did start to perk up, actually tried exploring and following other barn critters. I did try to to get him to drink a bottle with electrolytes and an agent to help firm his stools, it was Advanced Arrest that was given. I couldn’t get any of it in him. I did clean him up with soap and water and put him into isolation with a heat source. He was cold and damp from his cleaning. He did ultimately eat a couple, three, four pellets and a very small nibble of the hay they like. I did try sticking a tube down his throat, but it wasn’t as soft and flexible as a catheter. It wouldn’t go in very far. So instead of rupturing his esophagus I backed it out, it only went in four inches. He was also grinding his teeth. But I had seen a little improvement.

I also had two other kids that didn’t drink their entire bottle like they always do. Coincidence? Does anyone have any idea what could have caused this and are my other kids at risk as well. They finished a course of parasite medication about five days ago. They also went through a regemine of CoRid and finished that about 10-12 days ago. Am I going to go to the farm in the morning and find at least one dead kid? I’m worried. But, I’m honestly in no condition to make another trip out to the farm. I haven’t been feeling well.


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## Mini Horses (Nov 24, 2018)

The corn husks from field.    They will eat them and more often than not the husks will have molds from the corn, not to mention chems that were spayed on it.     These young ones don't have a developed digestive system. & no moms to help them choose what to eat.   You may have more issues with the others, hopefully not.

Getting the gases out is your goal.  Stand them with front feet up higher, like on a step, hopefully some gases will move up & out.   The diarrhea is a way to move the stuff thru & hopefully it will be enough to relieve the pressure and offending toxins....BUT tooth grinding denotes discomfort/pain, and they can die from bloat.  

You can get  "Bloat Release" to help.   If it does not relieve condition, vet can puncture and relieve gases.  But it is something that needs to be addressed quickly.   Do not worry about the kid eating right now, water yes.    ASK VET if warm water and Epsom salts can be used orally to help.


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## Carla D (Nov 24, 2018)

Mini Horses said:


> The corn husks from field.    They will eat them and more often than not the husks will have molds from the corn, not to mention chems that were spayed on it.     These young ones don't have a developed digestive system. & no moms to help them choose what to eat.   You may have more issues with the others, hopefully not.
> 
> Getting the gases out is your goal.  Stand them with front feet up higher, like on a step, hopefully some gases will move up & out.   The diarrhea is a way to move the stuff thru & hopefully it will be enough to relieve the pressure and offending toxins....BUT tooth grinding denotes discomfort/pain, and they can die from bloat.
> 
> You can get  "Bloat Release" to help.   If it does not relieve condition, vet can puncture and relieve gases.  But it is something that needs to be addressed quickly.   Do not worry about the kid eating right now, water yes.    ASK VET if warm water and Epsom salts can be used orally to help.


Thank you for your reply. I’m headed out there right now to see how he’s doing and if any of the other goats have issues. I will update as soon as I can. I sure hope my DLD’s baby is doing much better this morning. We did remove all of the husks out and cleaned up the mess last night. I’m really hoping that since he had perked up some last night and that his belly wasn’t rigid, just larger, and that he was trying to explore while chasing kittens means he did find some relief and is going to be ok after a little while.


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## Carla D (Nov 24, 2018)

Mini Horses said:


> The corn husks from field.    They will eat them and more often than not the husks will have molds from the corn, not to mention chems that were spayed on it.     These young ones don't have a developed digestive system. & no moms to help them choose what to eat.   You may have more issues with the others, hopefully not.
> 
> Getting the gases out is your goal.  Stand them with front feet up higher, like on a step, hopefully some gases will move up & out.   The diarrhea is a way to move the stuff thru & hopefully it will be enough to relieve the pressure and offending toxins....BUT tooth grinding denotes discomfort/pain, and they can die from bloat.
> 
> You can get  "Bloat Release" to help.   If it does not relieve condition, vet can puncture and relieve gases.  But it is something that needs to be addressed quickly.   Do not worry about the kid eating right now, water yes.    ASK VET if warm water and Epsom salts can be used orally to help.


I wanted to give you a better follow up now that I’ve fed him this morning. He was up and wandering around. Since he hadn’t eaten more than a couple of pellets last night and no bottle I left him a dish with about 40oz of formula, electrolytes, and water. It was all gone this morning except about 1-2 ounces. He drank an entire 20oz bottle of formula this morning. His bloat was gone. Very eager to receive some attention, so I held him in my lap and he snuggled me with his head resting in my hand and fell asleep for a couple of minutes. Right now it looks like his only issue is the diarrhea which is a bit thinner and a bit less than it was last night. I think that covers his situation. Thank you for responding this morning. I think I’m going to stick with the commonly used bedding of hay, stick with the food mixture and formula they are accustomed to. No deviations for a while. Thank you again.


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## greybeard (Nov 24, 2018)

Any feed change, in all livestock (and most other biological entities) should be done little bits at a time and gradual. The rumen is a wonderful organ, but is pretty fragile regarding what microflora it has versus what it needs to deal with feed changes. 
There are 'some' concerns with corn stalks and husks regarding nitrates but that would be pretty obvious by now and unless it is chopped corn stalks using the bottom part of frost or drought stressed whole stalks, it should be fine.


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## Carla D (Nov 25, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Any feed change, in all livestock (and most other biological entities) should be done little bits at a time and gradual. The rumen is a wonderful organ, but is pretty fragile regarding what microflora it has versus what it needs to deal with feed changes.
> There are 'some' concerns with corn stalks and husks regarding nitrates but that would be pretty obvious by now and unless it is chopped corn stalks using the bottom part of frost or drought stressed whole stalks, it should be fine.


Thank you. I had the vet out tonight because I got overwhelmed with everything that had been going on. It seemed like more things keep cropping up. Turns out it was Enterotoxemia. They got it because they are still getting bottles and the pretty drastic temperature change that we’ve been experiencing this last week. It caused their intestinal bacteria to bloom. If they had been totally weaned and eating only pellets and hay this wouldn’t have happened.


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## Sheepshape (Nov 25, 2018)

Carla D said:


> Turns out it was Enterotoxemia.


Crikey, Carla.....this has been a 'Baptism of Fire' for you.

 How is Mr Bloat? Now,What are you going to call him?............Mr Bloat isn't a nice name!

Give him a cuddle for me.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 25, 2018)

Carla D said:


> If they had been totally weaned and eating only pellets and hay this wouldn’t have happened.


Not true- I have posted links in your other thread of causes of enterotoxemia.


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## Carla D (Nov 25, 2018)

Sheepshape said:


> Crikey, Carla.....this has been a 'Baptism of Fire' for you.
> 
> How is Mr Bloat? Now,What are you going to call him?............Mr Bloat isn't a nice name!
> 
> Give him a cuddle for me.


I have been getting quite the baptism, that’s for sure. But many times the the things I’m being told by the vets are meeting a little bit of criticism from actual goat people with hands on experiences and quite possibly more experience than 90-95% of the knowledge and experience from vets. As many or most vets have very little experience dealing with goats.


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## Carla D (Nov 25, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Not true- I have posted links in your other thread of causes of enterotoxemia.


Ok. I guess I’m going to need to find them and read them. Now I’m confused again.


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## greybeard (Nov 25, 2018)

It's the feeding

https://vet.uga.edu/news/view/enterotoxemia_in_sheep_and_goats
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/enterotoxemiaaka.html



> Enterotoxemia, also known as Overeating Disease or Pulpy Kidney Disease, is caused by the bacterium clostridium perfringens. There are many types of C. perfringens, but types C and D are what are usually seen in goats in the USA. Type C is more often found in young kids and type D is more common in adult goats. Goat raisers are fortunate that two of the few medications made specifically for goats are a vaccine to prevent Types C&D clostridium perfringens and an anti-toxin to give when the problem already exists.
> 
> Enterotoxemia is primarily a management-caused disease. Feeding too much carbohydrate-rich feed (processed grains) creates an environment of undigested starches in the rumen and intestines where C. perfringens toxins can flourish. Other causes can be feeding very lush pasture or baked goods such as bread. Goats breaking into a feed bin and eating their fill often results in Overeating Disease. Sudden changes in feed or pasture or in how or when you feed can cause Enterotoxemia. The pH of the rumen becomes acidic, rumen contractions slow down, toxins go systemic (throughout the goat's bloodstream), damaging blood vessels in the brain (become neurotoxic), and killing the goat. *All changes in feed, hay, and pasture must be done slowly and over multiple days to avoid shocking the rumen and causing sickness.*


The last part applies to pretty much any kind of animal (and humans).


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