# Please HELP! 2 year old Wether Stuggling to pee! GOOD UPDATE!!



## Chicos Mama (Dec 12, 2011)

Urinary calculi...Im sure of it but hoping its not!  
I went out to feed this morning and noticed Chico taking his normal stance to pee...but nothing comming out.  He didnt hunch up or anything, but he did seem somewhat uncomfortable.
His tail is down and he didnt want any fresh water from the hose ( one of his favorite things to do)  He dosent seem to be in any pain and his stomach is rumbling as normal. 
His diet consists of Fresh Alphalha hay, 1/2 cup Purina Goat Chow and 1/4 cup BOSS daily. Fresh loose mineral daily as well and a handful of crackers from time to time. I have pulled all grain from him now. (My vet told me the goat chow was alright for him)

He was fine yesterday and today I noticed this.  I am hoping I caught it early enough to save my precious Chico.
Heres the BIG problem....We are in the middle of a major snow storm here in Northern Arizona and no Vet can come to me untill Thursday! All I have on hand at the house is: Baking Soda, Apple Cider Vinegar, Duramycin-10.

I called the only 2 feed stores in town and nobody carries Ammonia chloride!   I have about a 2 hour window to go to town to pick up anything I can and it is now 9:45 a.m. Monday morning...
Is there ANYTHING I can do for him ASAP!?

PLEASE HELP!!!


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## jodief100 (Dec 12, 2011)

Fruit Fresh.  Not as good as AC but it will help until you can get some.  You can order AC from Jeffer's.


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## Chicos Mama (Dec 12, 2011)

All i have are bannanas! And some kale and lettuce! My mom up the road may have some. What kind is best?


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 12, 2011)

Chicos Mama said:
			
		

> All i have are bannanas! And some kale and lettuce! My mom up the road may have some. What kind is best?


NOt fresh fruit, but a product used to sprinkle on fruit called " Fruit FRESh" get it at the grocery store.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 12, 2011)

like this   http://www.google.com/products/cata...1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=15763926150341814299#


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 12, 2011)

If the vet can't come to you, can their office sell you RX.  or ammonia chloride?   Banamine for pain,  dexamethasone for swelling.  And allow you to admister, and an antibiotic for possible UT infection.


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## Chicos Mama (Dec 12, 2011)

*I HAVE THAT!!! * How do I administer it?


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 12, 2011)

my notes say 2 tablspoons per 2 ounces of water every 4 hours.   take off of all grain and feed. maybe can offer a little hay if acting hungry.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 12, 2011)

here is another recipee I have seen on-line. 


http://www.barnonemeatgoats.com/ucalculi.html

There has been some success with a natural remedy to dissolve stones. A drench is made, given to the goat, and the goat is then laid on its back. Banimine is also given every 8 hours. 

UC Treatment 
1/2 red onion 
Juice from 3 lemons 
6 pods galic 
1/4 C distilled water 

Bring to a boil then simmer for 15 minutes. Blend in a food processor and allow to cool. Drench goat with all of the liquid. Repeat treatment after 12 hours, then 24 hours, and every 48 hours (3x).


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## elevan (Dec 12, 2011)

Do you have a local mill...health food store...soap shop?  They may carry AC.





			
				20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> here is another recipee I have seen on-line.
> 
> 
> http://www.barnonemeatgoats.com/ucalculi.html
> ...


Quite frankly if you have all the stuff to put that together AND you have some Fruit Fresh then I'd add 2 Tbsp of Fruit Fresh to that recipe after it's cool and then drench it.




> my notes say 2 tablspoons per 2 ounces of water every 4 hours.   take off of all grain and feed. maybe can offer a little hay if acting hungry.


I would use lemon juice instead of water if you have it to up the acidity even more.


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## Chicos Mama (Dec 12, 2011)

O.K. 2 tablespoons Fruit fresh and 2 oz. of lemon juice every 4 hours right?   And for how long?
 I have that!  Mixed it up and going in to drench...just waiting to make sure thats right. I ordered ammonium chloride from Jeffers overnight delivery as well. 

Wish me luck!


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## Chicos Mama (Dec 12, 2011)

ALSO... No Benimine!  Can I give him anything here from home for pain?  Asprin (uncoated) ?


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 12, 2011)

The key is going to be if you can get a urine stream going, If there is a total blockage you will have to get him to a vet for him to discuss surgery with you. 

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/stones.htm  here are detailed directions on treating with ammonia chloride, 

treat for 24 hours until urine flow is regained and then once a day for atleast a week.   After urine flow is regained you can offer hay and water.  Ofcourse this is the direction of Ammonia Choride, but I am assuming it would be the same. 

Good LUck!!!  

I wouldn't offer any extra water, or feed until you get urine flow, Or you will just cause his bladder to fill up faster. If you are willing to do the surgery for him, and can not get the urine flowing, I would be on the phone begging the vet to get you in for an appointment before thursday.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 12, 2011)

advil


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## Chicos Mama (Dec 12, 2011)

Wellll....*THAT* was *FUN*!!!  
Update:
Gave Chico 2oz. lemon juice w/2 TBS. Fruit Fresh, *2* (200mg.) crushed Ibuprofin mixed in and GAGGED him with a Turkey Baster! 
(He stepped on my drencher our first go round of "battle" and broke it.) So when in a pinch...That old turkey baster worked great!
He does not seem to be in any pain and is as ornery as ever!   He was *NOT* a happy camper! 
I still have not seen him urinate.
And I will repeat every 4 hours...minus the Ibuprofin...that every 8 hours. Does that sound about right?

I did read up on the whole pizzle surgery...but as soon as it said to "place goat on his back"...I stopped. 
Chico is "around" 225 lbs. (according to a tape measure) of pissed off Nubian Goat. The only one placed on their back would be ME!
So...Not even an option, as I live alone and have no help for THAT job alone.
He is not eating or drinking as of yet.
I will recieve my order from Jeffers tommorrow morning, but untill then is there anything else I can provide for him.  All that I have on hand is what I have and cannot get out to go to town.

Thank you all so much for your help...even if hes not feeling better yet ...You have all made me feel like Im not so alone out here in the middle of nowhere! And your advice and prayers are immeasurable! 

My lump o` love...Chico


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## redtailgal (Dec 12, 2011)

I dont have much to contribute.......am doing more learning from this thread than anything.  I still wanted to say that I am rooting for your and Chico.  He looks like a sweety!


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 12, 2011)

normally when they have UC the sheath area is very messy looking and a little irritated looking, From the urine coming out slowly, "like a drippy faucet building up calcium on the outside of it" before the complete blockage occurs, are you seeing any signs of this?  Atleast in my experience this is what I have seen. 

I am so sorry you are unable to get out to a vet. 

I am sure the lemon juice did not make it any easier to drench.   

I just don't want you thinking it is UC and it ends up being parasites or something else causing him to be off feed.   

but it sounds like you are quit capable of telling if he is peeing or not, just wanted to make sure.


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## elevan (Dec 12, 2011)

On the ibuprofen:  Ibuprofen(liquid)  2x childrens dose by weight  orally (Do NOT use more than 48 hours)
Of course you can use the tablets but you should figure out the by weight dosage .


Have a look at his penal sheath too.  It could be an infection and not necessarily UC.  Here's a thread I had a while back that ended up being a penal shaft infection and affected my buck's ability to pee.  There are pictures.  http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=101425#p101425


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## Chicos Mama (Dec 12, 2011)

Thank you *Redtailedgal*! He truley is one obnoxious boy to everyone but me! And I adore him!

*20kidsonahill and elevan*: His "sheath area" is clean and dry a a bone. I am unable to crawl under him and press "IT"  out so to speak...on account of his lovely set of horns! 
Which he thinks fit perfectly between my 3rd and 4th rib! *JERK!*...but I know I havent exactlly been bringing him cookies to feed him this morning so he sees me comming and scruff goes up and head drops down , pupils dialate cuz he thinks "game on!"  
He was wormed with his second dose (10 days after the first) of GoatGuard 3 weeks ago along with my other 2 Does.
What else would cause him to not be urinating?

Chico will be 2 years old in 2 days as well and nothing has changed in his diet for over a year. Would this happen overnight like it seems to have? He was castrated very young as well...6 weeks old.  Way too early I know! Can this be a contributing factor?


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## autumnprairie (Dec 12, 2011)

rooting for you and chico I hope all goes well my buck is still a baby (6 months)and thinks it's fun to run between my legs  I will say no more. 

keep us posted.


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## elevan (Dec 12, 2011)

UC or a penal shaft infection would be the only things I can think of right now that would stop him from peeing  :/

Keep up the Fruit Fresh until you get the AC then switch.

I'd be putting a collar on him and clipping him to the fence so that you can work on him without having to fight his horns.


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## Chicos Mama (Dec 12, 2011)

O.K Im going to tell you all something only because as "Goaty" people...ONLY ya`ll would understand...

*Deep Breath*...alright...here goes... 

Out of desperation, and worry for my poor boy...I decided to try something *COMPLETLY UNORTHODOX*!

Oh geez....No she didnt!....Oh Yes she did!  

I figured why not?  After I made sure there werent any snoopy neighbors and no hidden cameras ANYHERE... I comenced to do a homemade...Goat penis massage! 

*STOP LAUGHING!!!!* (ok, your allowed to giggle)

But guess what?  About 5 minutes of this "interesting" experiment...*CHICO PEED*!!!! 

Say what you will...laugh if you have to...But *CHICO PEED*!!! 

Then he turned for his Alpalpha hay and snagged a couple of bites!
I am still going to continue with the Fruit Fresh/Lemon juice drench untill the ammonium chloride arrives...but I dont think anymore massages are in his near future!

Oh ya...did I mention *CHICO PEED*!!!?? 

*This message will self distruct in 10 seconds! (Oh God I hope this dosent get out on the internet *


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## elevan (Dec 12, 2011)

Well...I guess what counts is that it worked.  But I did and am still giggling  

Keep us posted.


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## redtailgal (Dec 12, 2011)

I no longer feel sorry for Chico.

jus sayin.


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## autumnprairie (Dec 12, 2011)

I am glad it worked.
I am a massage therapist but I am not sure I would massage my goats penis to make  him pee just saying.
thank you for the laugh.


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## jodief100 (Dec 13, 2011)

Glad to hear he is doing better.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 13, 2011)

If he doesn't continue to improve, I would take his temp.  and consider putting him on antibiotics in addition to the AC treatments

Once he is doing better, I would go to the preventive dosage of AC,  It is on that website I posted earlier, I beleive 1teaspoon per 100 to 150lbs of goat per day.  You can mix it in his sweet feed or mix with a little water and drench daily, then give him his grain after that.  

A vet can adivice you about his diet and look at what you are feeding him. 

It is good that he peed, but UC sometimes will become a chronic problem, So I would follow through with the treatments and a vet visit. 

I know a family that had a wether at the fair this summer, and the wether didn't make it into the show ring, because he went down from UC. Vet treated, and they took the wether home to be put down, but he slowly improved, and they still have him. I was talking to the gentlemen the other day,  and he said he is drenching him daily with AC even though the incident happened in August.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 13, 2011)

Hey, Whatever works! That is the only thing that counts. But it is funny.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 13, 2011)

I think the penis stimulation was a good idea.  A bit like massaging a clog out of a hose.  If he had a UC it might have gotten stuck and needed a hand to move along out of the tightest spot in the end there.   We all have to do that now and then to get the plug out of the end of a stuck teat!  Don't we ladies and gentlemen? So good choice!  


Boy it was hard to type that without my fingers quivering on the keyboard from the giggling.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 13, 2011)

The thing's that we are willing to try to make our babies ok. I love it! Good job momma. No need to be embarrased, it just shows how much you love him. Hopefully he won't think of you as a gf and not momma anymore.  Sorry I had to at least say something!


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## GLENMAR (Dec 13, 2011)




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## Chicos Mama (Dec 14, 2011)

Thank you all for your support, prayers and well wishes! AND...understanding my "DUTIES" as a Goat Mama.  
My Fiance` on the other hand, wants to know how he can get UI 

(Sorry...I just had to add that)

Chico is doing great as of this morning and proudly takes his stance and shows off his strong pee stream 
My ammonium chloride arrived this morning and he will be getting 1 TBS. daily on his 1/2 cup of grain. 
So no more Fruit Fresh & Lemon juice drenches for him...I never saw a 225 lb. fat goat run so fast as he did when he saw me comming with the Turkey Baster!

B.T.W. When I was "massaging" Chico, It felt like sand was inside. Could this have been crystals of some sort? Or is that what "it" normally feels like?

Dont be scared all you Goat penis experts! Inquiring minds want to know.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 14, 2011)

daily dosage is recommended to be 1 teaspoon per 150lbs of animal, I think 1 tablespoon a day is a quit a bit.  maybe for a week or two it would be okay, but then I would cut back to half that amount.  1 1/2 teaspoons daily.   

AC can be overdosed.


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## Chicos Mama (Dec 14, 2011)

Made a note of that! Thank you* VERY *much!


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## jodief100 (Dec 14, 2011)

I have no experience with UC but my understanding is it crystalizes the urine.  So if it felt like sand, I have to think yup, it was UC.  Makes me think that you did help out, maybe by dislodging some of the particles.  

Good for you doing what you needed to do to save your boy!  So glad he is doing better.


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## Chicos Mama (Dec 14, 2011)

*Chico showing off his winter garb! (Goats in Coats!)*







*Chico & Violet love their coats!*


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## SmallFarmGirl (Dec 14, 2011)

Cute !!!


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## elevan (Dec 14, 2011)

Feeding the AC over the grain is likely going to be a waste.  It's been my experience that they'll eat the grain and the AC will fall to the bottom of the pan and they will not touch it.  Better to drench it.


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## redtailgal (Dec 14, 2011)

Elevan is right.........I've tried feeding ac over the grain as a supplement.  Every bit of it was wasted. 

Someone recommended that I "swirl" it in their water......I do and that works great.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 14, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Feeding the AC over the grain is likely going to be a waste.  It's been my experience that they'll eat the grain and the AC will fall to the bottom of the pan and they will not touch it.  Better to drench it.


I am under the impression she is feeding sweet-feed, but if not, you will need to add a little moisture to the feed to get the AC to stick. and not end up in the bottom of your feeder.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 14, 2011)

Chicos Mama said:
			
		

> *Chico showing off his winter garb! (Goats in Coats!)*
> 
> http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/2273_sir_chico.jpg
> 
> ...


Wow, what a handsome boy. I loved what your fiancee had to say.


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## Chicos Mama (Dec 14, 2011)

Heres what I feed: http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=11677&p=15

Yeah...*THATS* my Fat Wether (not a pregnant Doe) CHICO! (See why hes on a diet?) 
He says hes not fat, he just "spreads-out" when he lays down!


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## redtailgal (Dec 14, 2011)

he is very ....erm.......fluffy?


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## elevan (Dec 14, 2011)

It's not fat, it's pleasantly plump


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 14, 2011)

He has his "winter" coat on.


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## autumnprairie (Dec 14, 2011)

I like their coats.


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