# Sweetened's 2015 Kidding thread (Last arrival 2/23)



## Sweetened (Jan 2, 2015)

Though this year has some tragedy, and I will be missing out on kids from 4 does (and one gorgeous buck...), I am hopeful all 4 of my remaining does will deliver beautiful, healthy kids.

Unfortunately, we lost Millie due to pregnancy induced listeriosis.  We were unable to save her and she faded from this world in less than 3 days.  Just before Christmas, we had a latch break under the weight of an escaped goat, and our dogs, which are penned away from the goats for when we are not around for a -reason-, spent hours in with the girls.  Though they never made effort to kill them, the two dominant females were injured beyond repair.  Betty had a punctured rumen and was put down the next morning, and Agnes, my sweet herd queen, succumbed to her injury a few days later (ripped stomach wall, a gash).  Two other's were nipped, one in the leg and the other in the shoulder.  The leg is healed, and the shoulder is being cared for.

The kids we will not get to see are from the following does:
Agnes



Betty

Millie


We had traded Betty (were keeping her on site) for a doe who was set for slaughter.  She has a hip injury from transport that causes her to wobble.  She can run and play and is not in any pain, but unfortunately, she is unable to hold the weight of a buck to breed, so she will, ultimately, be harvested.

But, despite the sadness, our remaining girls have all been bred to our rugged Saanen boy, Sven.



We have 3 2nd fresheners up coming.  First, Gretel who was bred to Sven last year and produced a lovely, massive, red buckling (with LOTS of assistance), Henry.  She is due on February 12th, 2015.








Tootsie also FF to a large buckling, sired by a Nubian from another farm (we did not own her at time of kidding).  Her birth was unassisted.  We have kept Odin for breeding next year.  She is due February 17th.






Flora FF to a single stillborn before we traded for her.  She was a gallon a day producer as a FF.  She doesn't look pregnant, but hasn't re-cycled.  I have my fingers crossed.  She is due on February 17th, with Tootsie.





Our first freshener is a 3 year old.  Her former owner waited to expose her until 1.5 years, but I believe the buck was too small (You have to understand, this doe is nearly 4ft. at the shoulder and 260lbs).  Sven, poor boy, had trouble with her, but took the most time with her!  So funny.  You may remember, this doe came with leg trouble.  We are almost better, and should be better by spring.  I think she will always have a limp, but she doesn't seem to be in pain anymore.  She is due February 13th!




Some updated and current pictures coming soon.  Who's with me!  Due soon?  Let me know your thread!


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## SA Farm (Jan 2, 2015)

So sorry for your losses  Hope this year is much happier for you!
Looking forward to following along with you


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## Sweetened (Jan 2, 2015)

Thanks SA, hard lesson's learned.  Sometimes as much prevention as possible just isn't enough.


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## SA Farm (Jan 2, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Thanks SA, hard lesson's learned.  Sometimes as much prevention as possible just isn't enough.


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## norseofcourse (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm so sorry for your losses


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## Sweetened (Jan 2, 2015)

Thanks :


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## GLENMAR (Jan 2, 2015)

You are a great photographer. I can't imagine being up there in that cold, but it sure is pretty in the summer. Good luck.


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## Sweetened (Jan 2, 2015)

Oh its amazing in the winter too! A neutral pallet!

The two dogs who caused trouble when the latch broke:


 

 

Their father, whos a non issue with livestock;


 
Their mother is a great pyr

And two wintery goats, walter and gretel


 

 

Thanks for the compliment. I have a website but its down for renovations.


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## GLENMAR (Jan 2, 2015)

Yes. I saw those. I loved that second photo.


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## goats&moregoats (Jan 3, 2015)

So sorry for your loss. Will be following you to see your kids when they arrive. Good luck!


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## Sweetened (Jan 3, 2015)

Thankyou!


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## FarmersDigest (Jan 3, 2015)

So very sorry for your loss.  Sure hope the babies can make thing's right. Sure can't wait for your beautiful pics of the kids!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 3, 2015)

What a tragic loss... 
Hoping this year brings great kids, lots of does and healthy easy kiddings!


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## Sweetened (Jan 3, 2015)

Thanks all!


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## Sweetened (Jan 3, 2015)

Southern, did you start a kidding thread!?!?!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 3, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Southern, did you start a kidding thread!?!?!



No.... but maybe I should seeing as how tomorrow and the next day are day 145 for two of my goats! LOL


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## jodief100 (Jan 3, 2015)

I am so sorry for the loss of your beautiful girls.  Your goats are absolutely lovely, I enjoy the pictures very much.   Good luck and happy kidding!


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## Sweetened (Jan 3, 2015)

Thanks all. Southern, you can link to your thread here!!


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## Sweetened (Jan 3, 2015)

Here are some cell phone pictures of the girls I took tonight. Only one hates the camera. I tried to get a top and side of each doe. Feel free to make guesses!

Gretel:
Gets extremely copper deficient the moment shes pregnant despite mineral, so forgive her crusty nose! im hoping for twins instead of one huge buckling again.



 

 

Tootsie: 
She is quite big, certainly not as firmly wide as Gretel.


 

 

Flora:
I think yes pregnant, but a single, which is fine! That red head poking in is that lovely boer that cant breed.


 

 

Gladys:
I am not sure, but i do hope shes pregnant! Shes so large, if she had even a 10lb kid in there i wouldnt be surprised if you couldnt see it!


 

 

Still a month and a half to go!


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## Sweetened (Jan 3, 2015)

Ew, sorry they are sideways


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## Southern by choice (Jan 3, 2015)

Twins for all but I think a single for Gretal.


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## Sweetened (Jan 3, 2015)

Twins!? Even for gladys? Well thatd be just fine.

Lets just cross our fingers for a doeling single this time round lol


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## SA Farm (Jan 3, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Twins!? Even for gladys? Well thatd be just fine.
> 
> Lets just cross our fingers for a doeling single this time round lol


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## Sweetened (Jan 3, 2015)

Lol!!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 3, 2015)

Of course I have a 50/50 shot  of being right or wrong.

Ok so I have huge goats that pop out singles and thin barely pregnant looking goats that pop out twins and trips.

I may even have one ultrasounded... she is either going to have 5 LOL or a huge whopping single.


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## Sweetened (Jan 3, 2015)

Lol!

Surprisingly, gretel was bigger this time last year than she is now, which is why i was hoooping lol. But, gretel, even when not pregnant, can look that way, she is SUPER efficient with rumen space.


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## jodief100 (Jan 4, 2015)

Have you tried a copper bolus for the one who has copper issues?   I have a few that have more copper issues than others and it seems to help.


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## Sweetened (Jan 4, 2015)

Ihave only just heard about them. We are going to check if our feed store has them monday!


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## jodief100 (Jan 4, 2015)

You may need to get the cattle ones and break them into smaller pieces.  I get the Copasure for cattle and empty gel capsules from jeffers and break them into smaller ones for the goats.  Approximately 1 gram copper oxide per 20 lbs of body weight is the scale I use.  Jeffers carries ones for goats now but they cost 4 times as much per gram.


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## Sweetened (Jan 4, 2015)

Thank you. I will look for both and see!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 4, 2015)

Hi @Sweetened ! I did put up a thread... the first 2 are due any day... tell me what your guesses are!
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/southerns-2015-kidding-thread.30447/


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## Sweetened (Jan 4, 2015)

Woot!!


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## Sweetened (Jan 4, 2015)

I spoke with the guy we got gladys and flora from today. He said he never thought the girls were bred when flora kidded because she never got fat and the buck was still very young. flora and betty's babies were both around the 5lb mark!

Promising news then considering neither gladys nor flora are showing!


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 6, 2015)

sorry to hear of your loss 

your pictures are awesome!

 that all goes great for your does(and you )


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## Sweetened (Jan 6, 2015)

Thankyou so much!


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## Sweetened (Jan 7, 2015)

Gretel is certainly efficient with her rumen, she can look 3/4 this size when not pregnant, but boooy it makes me wonder what else she has packed in there.

Sorry, image is sideways again.





And today, flora and gladys got up from cuddling and surprised me. I think they may be showing!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2015)

Really hoping for a great kidding year for you.
Wow, you may need another buck if he keeps throwing all bucks.

So you need a PINK year!

Not sure why but everytime I think of your thread I think of Agnes.
She was beautiful. Very sad.


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## Sweetened (Jan 7, 2015)

I think of her every day.

The first kid was from a doe we bought bred. And each kid from last year was sired by a different buck, only one was svens


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2015)

Some just steal your heart more than others. 

All different bucks... you poor thing.


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## Sweetened (Jan 7, 2015)

At one point, we planned to sell agnes. She was just awful! Meeeean. Then she kidded, and turned into the most amazing goat.


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## Sweetened (Jan 8, 2015)

Am i just fishing or is there a marked diffrrence in 5 days here. Flora and gladys have never been seen even carrying their rumens out, but the right side sure seems more predominant.

Gladys:



 

Flora:


 

Their pictures from 5 days ago are a few posts back in this thread.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 8, 2015)

Gladys does but it could be the cold and they are just fattening up on hay.   I swear the more we watch the more they toy with us!


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## Sweetened (Jan 8, 2015)

All part of the doe code!


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## Sweetened (Jan 8, 2015)

Im going crazy and i still have mpre than a month to go


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## SA Farm (Jan 8, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Im going crazy and i still have mpre than a month to go


I think we need to start a club on that front!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 8, 2015)

My "Trouble" is still holding. 
I am glad as I am tired. Callie, pups, & triplets we are bottle feeding.. ugh


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## Sweetened (Jan 8, 2015)

You have your hands full!


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## Mantis71 (Jan 8, 2015)

So very sorry for your loss, heartbreaking to even read about forget going through it. 
Agnes was beautiful.  She caught my eye too. 

This is my first kidding coming up.  I'm SO trying to stay calm  LOL

I have 3 does.  One huge boer/saanen (50/50) who was bred before I got her, due March 15. One little ND girl I got a couple weeks ago who will turn one this month (unbred). And a second ND girl who's getting QUITE rolypoly now and I don't have a due date for her!!!!  SHE is making me crazy.  LOL


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## Sweetened (Jan 8, 2015)

Thankyou, mantis! You should start a kidding thread and link it here


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## Mantis71 (Jan 9, 2015)

After going out and checking I think I'm going to !   :::crazy waiting face::: lol


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## Sweetened (Jan 9, 2015)

Lol do it! Post a link here so i dont miss it!


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## Mantis71 (Jan 9, 2015)

I did it..lol  no idea how to post the link lol  heelppp hahaha


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## Mantis71 (Jan 9, 2015)

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/mantis-kidding-thread-oh-dear-lol.30477/ 

there we go


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## Sweetened (Jan 9, 2015)

Aweeesommme


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## jodief100 (Jan 9, 2015)

I can never tell by looking at a goat how close she is.  I watch behavior.  It helps to know your goats and their personalities.  They are all looking good but I think it is your imagination and wishful thinking that says the right side is bigger.  They look the same to me.


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## Sweetened (Jan 9, 2015)

Im not worried about closeness i know the dates rhey were bred, just thought these two might be showing a bit but i figured wishful thinking lol


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## Sweetened (Jan 13, 2015)

Much to the annoyance of my girls, I was pushing my hand into the right side and holding it there for a while to feel for baby movement. Only response was from Gretel's belly, and a swift double kick to my hand when i was poking around.

Well, at least ones pregnant!


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## Bucking Adoeable Fainters (Jan 14, 2015)

Oh my dear friend i am SOOOOOO sorry about Agnes and the girls. How difficult that had to been in you. 
But very glad you will be having kids soon! Cannot wait to see!!!


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## Sweetened (Jan 14, 2015)

I think about her every day. I think i long for this kidding becayluse im desperate for new life.

And in that desperation, i violated gladys today and groped her. Her taught never-had-a-baby-before teat area is now.... STARTING A BAG!!! Shes got some milk in there!


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## Bucking Adoeable Fainters (Jan 14, 2015)

YAAAAAAAY!!!! Nothing helps put a band-aid on loss, more then new life. Cannot wait!!! I will be watching!!!!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 14, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Jan 15, 2015)

The doe code is in full force today.  Feeder is full, open the door to the barn (since it's beautiful out again today!), all the girls are standing there, munching away, thin as can be.  I picture the conversation to be something like: "SHH!  She's coming, hide them."  Door opens.  "Oh heeeey!"

Buggers.


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## Sweetened (Jan 16, 2015)

Wandered in today to check water and fill the feeder and saw Tootsie and her tiny black teats were resembling the udder I remember: big, thick handles!  She's started putting some milk in there now too, and she's the last on the list, with Flora, to go!  That girl produces -a lot- of milk (3/4 gallon as a FF, I don't supplement for milk production), so I think it'll take her a bit to fill it all up!   Good things coming if I can just wait them out!  Tootsie and Gretel both look significantly thinner than before, so I think they've shifted their kids up their spines again.  Weather's been nicer, and that's when they seem to thin down a bit -- I think they're also not stuffing their faces as much since they're not cold.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 16, 2015)




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## Hens and Roos (Jan 16, 2015)




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## SA Farm (Jan 16, 2015)

And maybe a bit more


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## Sweetened (Jan 16, 2015)

Thatd be lovely.

I think maybe i update this thread too much :/


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## Southern by choice (Jan 16, 2015)

I like updates!


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## SA Farm (Jan 16, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> I like updates!


x2


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## Bucking Adoeable Fainters (Jan 19, 2015)

It IS exciting!  We're waiting too!!!!!!!!


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## luvmypets (Jan 19, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Jan 19, 2015)

Gretel has started putting her bag on, with 19 days until 145 (but who's counting...). The only one theres no positive signs on is Flora. If she isnt bred/doesnt kid, i may throw her in with the bucks and see if i cant get her to come around, otherwise, next year, which will be disappointing as she is SUCH a good milker. She is extra hard to tell though, because despite me drying her up for the past 8 months, she still has milk in there. I stopped pulling milk out every 3 weeks last month, just incase she starts bagging--i dont want to bleed her dry of colostrum.

They have been really good on food with this warmer weather, until today. I arrived home to find they must have spent the entire day GORGING as they went through 3 days worth of food today and theyre all stuffed to the brim, looking like a bunch of drunk chicks juuust about to pass out on the couch.

They do this on occassion, and it is always followed by refusing to eat anything twiggy. Then theyre left hungry for 2 days, and they eat the twigs!


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## luvmypets (Jan 19, 2015)

Good Luck. We have about 2 more months with our ewe Mammy.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 19, 2015)

Yeah... who is counting


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## Bucking Adoeable Fainters (Jan 19, 2015)

Tick tok tick tok....as i have my monitor on my night stand that i glance at every time i hear anything. No not the babies monitor, the goats


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## Sweetened (Jan 20, 2015)

I got my Photography computer hooked back up after a long while and was roaming pictures from summer/fall of last year.  Curious of your thoughts.  Having looked at these, I have a feeling Flora will not be giving us a kid this year.  What are your thoughts.

Then:



 

Now:


 

Then:





Now:


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## Southern by choice (Jan 20, 2015)

When would she be due?


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## Sweetened (Jan 20, 2015)

Day 150 is feb 17


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## Southern by choice (Jan 20, 2015)

may be a single??

How does her udder look? Any development?


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## Sweetened (Jan 20, 2015)

Not any bigger. Hard to tell though, she never fully dried up


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## Sweetened (Jan 20, 2015)

Sigh *pulls out hair* guess we will find out in 23-33 days


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## Bucking Adoeable Fainters (Jan 22, 2015)

I hope she has a single!!!


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## VKat (Jan 22, 2015)

I just want to say beautiful photos of beautiful animals. You are a great photographer!
I'm sorry for the loss of some of your girls. And wishing you the best in the coming month. 
...and looking forward to photos you may take of the kids!


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## Sweetened (Jan 22, 2015)

Me too BAF! she ff last year to a single stillborn, i dont know doe or buck or not, other owner didnt check. When i talled to him last, he said he never thought the girls were pregnant, they didnt look any different. Betty delivered twins, i think i mentioned that. They were barely 5 lbs each and floras buckling was apparently the same size.

Thank you vkat! I really appreciate that.


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## Bucking Adoeable Fainters (Jan 23, 2015)

That happened with my gal last year too. She barely looked pregnant and had a stillborn. Wasn't much bigger this year and twins! Hoping the same luck!!!!


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## Sweetened (Jan 23, 2015)

Agreed!


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## Sweetened (Jan 23, 2015)

When i go out at night to shut off lights, i spend time with the girls.  The herd is still healing from the loss of the two dominant does.  To mu surprise, Gladys took over the herd quickly and reigns with an iron fist. Flora is an easy second with the wobbly red, Eliza  tootsie and gretel indifferently placed on the bottom. To my surprise, though Eliza has no conflict with other goats, Flora has surrendered to her. Eliza cracks heads with flora and falls over from her defective back end, but it soesnt deter her in the least and Flora runs from her.

Gladys' bag is steadily growing. She has started filling the rear attachment area and when she crouches low in the feeder, the shape of her udder is obvious. She is significantly larger than 3 weeks ago especially after just getting up.

Flora was being sucky for attention so i sat with my head on her neck and scratched for a little over 20 minutes. I made sure to set my head so i could watch her right side. I saw 3 movements in a 5 minute span that looked like pieces of popcorn going off under her skin -- one forward rowards her ribs and then two within seconds of eachother back at her hips. It seems she does have a little one in there! 

Or im suffering from lack of sleep, hallucinations or Caprine Induced Psychosis (or CIP).


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## Bucking Adoeable Fainters (Jan 23, 2015)

I vote all of the above!! 

Yaaaaaay on the movement!


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## Mantis71 (Jan 24, 2015)

YAY movement!!!!  

I'm on a pure adrenaline rush right now and have to run update my kidding thread!!!!


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## Sweetened (Jan 25, 2015)

Gretel went from very little milk going in a couple days ago to a half full bag today. Her day 145 is in 12 days. While we havent seen her mucous plug yet this year, she is poofy in the vulva and opened up a bit. She did this early on last year as well and tried to trick me, but i am wiser this year and know her due date so i am not fooled or worried.

Tootsie lost her mucous plug a day or two ago, so all good signs and extra reassurances of pregnancy.

I am ridiculously excited for gladys's bag! If she is anything like her sister, itll be the udder everyone dreams for. As she continues to fill up, hdr attachment in the rear feels phenomenal, tight and high.

Got this years boy and girl name lists done up, so im set unless everyone has quads of one sex lol!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 25, 2015)




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## luvmypets (Jan 26, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Jan 28, 2015)

9 days to 145, this is Gretel! (Sideways im sure)


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## Sweetened (Jan 31, 2015)

1 week to Gretel day 145!


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## bonbean01 (Jan 31, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Jan 31, 2015)

A new baby will arrive on the 10th. He will take the name Atlas, has brambles and garden gate bloodlines. With any luck, he will sire next years babies.


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## SA Farm (Jan 31, 2015)

He's gorgeous


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## Sweetened (Jan 31, 2015)

I love love love his colour. Hes bottle raised but his damn still cleans and talks to him. Shes an awesome producer with a lovely bag and meaty body


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## bonbean01 (Jan 31, 2015)

Beautiful!!!!  Congratulations


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## Southern by choice (Jan 31, 2015)




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## luvmypets (Jan 31, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> A new baby will arrive on the 10th. He will take the name Atlas, has brambles and garden gate bloodlines. With any luck, he will sire next years babies.


 Im Jealous! His color is ammaaazzziinnggg!


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## bonbean01 (Jan 31, 2015)

Sweetened....I'm sure I asked you this before...but can't remember...where in Canada are you?  I'm from Canada...born and raised on a farm south of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan on the prairies, then 20 years in Northwest Ontario on Lake of the Woods near Kenora, Ontario.  Married me a Southern man from Florida and although Florida is lovely...really love living in northeast Mississippi....much like the Saskatchewan prairie but without that cold and snow


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## goats&moregoats (Feb 1, 2015)

Definitely agree with others................color is out of this world beautiful! Congrats!


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## Sweetened (Feb 1, 2015)

Thank you!

Bonbean, i live an hour north of Regina   i know all about the soutg! My mom married ab american when i was 14 and we lived in georgia and florida and i did a brief stint in wisconsin!

If you ever come for visit, we will have to get a timmies! I love the cold, or did until i got pregnant, now i feel it!


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 1, 2015)

Congrats on new buckling


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## Sweetened (Feb 1, 2015)

Thank you! Im hoping he will throw some of that colour around! We are actually not set on the name after thinking about it and will give him some time to tell us his name within the themes of course. His brother wasnt nearly as showy with colour, and was more plain with a swiss face and red with black lines on his spine and legs. A lot like gladys.

Speaking of Gladys, she is 7 days from her 145 today and is sure putting on a nice bag. Because of her size, i dont think she will kid until day 153 or so. Keep me waiting of course...


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## Southern by choice (Feb 1, 2015)

Ad what is even funnier is when you will approach your due date.
  and you wait and wait and the day estimated comes and goes and you wait and wait and are miserable and all you want to do is have that baby! And then labor starts and you think  nope not ready... lets do this tomorrow!

I don't know Sweetened I am so excited about you that it isn't as exciting with the goats... but I'll get over that when I see those lil kids bouncing about!


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## Sweetened (Feb 1, 2015)

Lol thabks southern


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## bonbean01 (Feb 1, 2015)

Sweetened!!!!  Our farm was 2 hours north of Regina!!!!  You live half way from my Dad's farm and Regina!!!  And yes, when I go home for a visit, I will message you and we'll get that Timmies and perhaps a honey crueler to boot    When are you due?  Love animal babies...but...crazy nuts for human babies


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## Sweetened (Feb 1, 2015)

Pm me where at if you like!

They adjusted my due date to july 13th! They may change it again. Im a first freshener


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## bonbean01 (Feb 1, 2015)

A first freshener!!!!!!  Yes, we do get to thinking and talking that way with enough critters around us 

I grew up on a farm just east of the town of Dundurn.  Bussed to Hanley for middle school and grade 10.  Then off to Church boarding school in Rosthern, north of Saskatoon for grade 11 and 12. 

Grew up on a cattle and grain farm....know the beauty of Summer on the Prairies and the 40 below thing in Winter.  Believe I have a good idea of where you are   Bet you have a jar of Saskatoon berry jam in your house!!!  I always stock up on that to take back when I'm home and also creamed honey   Not something I've found in the South.


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## Sweetened (Feb 1, 2015)

Lol. I compare all my learning to goats really, its quite funny. I know that area, we are very central to regina, stoon and Moose Jaw, closer to moose jaw than the others and not far from davidson.

I know, no creamed honey in the south, but creamed corn you can get almost anywhere lol. I do miss deep friend and pickled ocra...


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## Bucking Adoeable Fainters (Feb 2, 2015)

Sorry i have missed everything! This move stiiiiinks! Yaaaay for the buckling. He is flllllllashy!! I love me some flash  many congratulations! 

Yaaaay for July baby!!!! Mine came the 8th! So right around us celebrating her year, you'll be in the most intense pain of your life  ahhhh the joys of motherhood. Goats have it so easy....

So happy for you my dear friend!!!!!!!


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## Sweetened (Feb 3, 2015)

Are you almost done moving?

Yeah, not looking forward to the pain but its all part of the experience, and theres something about that thats just cool.  I dont think goats have it much easier, i think theyve just evolved for less drama as to not attract predators haha


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## Bucking Adoeable Fainters (Feb 3, 2015)

HAHAHAHA!!!! You can let me know the day AFTER you push out your child's shoulders  especially if you do everything natural. I did! (Just dont wait too long to go to hospital/birthing center like dummy me, and start to have them in the car!) Goats just have to get the head out, the rest is streamlined....us, not so much!

We are nearly done, moving the house. Lol. Haven't moved one single animal....waiting on kids. Our friend has 2 trailers especially set up for goats! How cool is that?!!!

Sorry didnt mean to hijack your thread. So excited for you!


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## Sweetened (Feb 3, 2015)

LOL That's alright.  I like conversation.  Better than me counting down the days to 145 (4).

I am wondering if Flora is one of those goats that bags up a couple days before or the day of.  She has really absorbed the last of the milk she refused to dry up over these past few months, and I haven't milked her because I didn't want to break any plugs or pull colostrum that may have formed.  She is not, however, putting milk back in yet, but she's still 9 days away from 145.  I watched her again this morning, and I still see light popcorn movements under her skin every half hour or so, so I do think she's pregnant.

Ahhh the doe code.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 3, 2015)




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## Mantis71 (Feb 3, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Feb 4, 2015)

Because I can't just let it be, I was out there again checking out the girls.  We are 3 days to Gretel's 145, and 4 days to Gladys'.

Glady's udder doubled overnight, and I know she's nowhere NEAR where she will be, but boy is this udder coming in beautifully.  I am so excited!  I got down behind her to take pictures and she started kicking right away, she will be a little wild, I think, when she learns to milk, but she will do fine.

First freshener!  I love love love how this looks!


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## bonbean01 (Feb 4, 2015)

Yup...udder is getting closer!!!!  Because I just can't let it be....LOLOLOL....do any of us???  Here with hair sheep and undocked tails, I have to add lifting the tail to those checks and makes for some funny positions trying to get a photo of an udder while holding a tail of a modest ewe


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## Sweetened (Feb 5, 2015)

Gladys, day 142.7, angry goat. She is busy making sure everyone knows she is uncomfortable and dammit all, they will be too!! She will be separated this weekend.  Her udder has doubled in size since those pictures and boy, is it BEAUTIFUL!

Gretel, day 143.7, rotund. She is so widr and carrying so high this evening, she attempted to squat to pee and said to heck with it, and just stood and peed! She looks like a spade from a deck of cards, udder filling quickly.

Whats this i read about multiples usually kidding earlier than singles?


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## bonbean01 (Feb 5, 2015)

I totally LOVE your sense of humour!!!!!!  Yes...it is the job of our critters to make us crazy!!!!


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## Southern by choice (Feb 5, 2015)

I think it is funny when they sit like a dog! You know when they are just so big they don't want to lay all the way down because it is toooo hard to get up.


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## Sweetened (Feb 5, 2015)

My sense of humor is very filtered here. I cuss like a pirate, sometimes i write posts and edit them for posting ability lol! Just who i am :/

Last year agned sat like a dog the day before she kidded. The only thing funnier is seeing a cow sit that way. Former friend had a cow who would sit like that


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## Sweetened (Feb 5, 2015)

Btw im hoping for a valentines day doeling, we have a couple names picked out thatd be super perfect for that.


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## Sweetened (Feb 6, 2015)

Day 145 for gretel is tomorrow and this begins the bi hourly vigils. Her ligaments are flexible, but kid(s) are still out and high and udder is not tight.

Gladys' udder is huge! But its not tight, and boy is she ornery.

Flora looks to have lost her mucous plug today and is out in the right side more than she ever has been.

Tootsie looks... broken. She is still round, but LOW and round, her tail bone and back hip is extremely prominent and i suspect she has the kids ready for launch phase, she is inly day 140. Ligs are firm but DEEP and hard to locate (thankfully i know what im looking for this year). Her udder hasnt gained much substance since its initial formation a couple weeks ago, and believe me, that bag will be unmistakable!


oi... id love a cold brew coffee right now.


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## Sweetened (Feb 7, 2015)

Gretel on the morning of her 145. Predictions on ehat day and how many? Udder is still not tight but is fuller, ligaments are flexible but not loose.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 7, 2015)

WIDE LOAD!  

Alright, I am saying twins on Tuesday!


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## Sweetened (Feb 7, 2015)

Boys girls?


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## goatgurl (Feb 7, 2015)

oh man sweetened, i just found your thread today.  i am so sorry for your losses.  kidding helps heal, new life does that most of the time.  I'm thinking Gretel is gonna explode soon.  will be watching.  and congrats on the new buck, he's a handsome guy.  and double congratulations on your first freshening.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 7, 2015)

Boys or girls?  Hmmmm...well probably the OPPOSITE of whatever you are hoping for


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## Sweetened (Feb 7, 2015)

Awh! Thanks goatgurl, do you have a thread started? Link here if so.

Im expecting boys but would like some girls. Our farm is 3-0 boys for live births on the farm, and 4-1 boys to girls if you include the stillborns last year!  Tootsie gave a buckling last year as well before i bought her, so i think theres a run on boys here lol.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 7, 2015)

twins .... boys 

i want to be wrong on this!


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## Sweetened (Feb 7, 2015)

My guess is single buckling again, so twins would be alright anyway.

Toosie has discharge, im somewhat worried she will kid before the 145 day :/ theres a very violent and active kid in there though, HUGE movement.


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## Mantis71 (Feb 7, 2015)

watching and waiting with you!!


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 7, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Feb 7, 2015)

Rebedded the kidding pen, cut up feed bags for goopy kid catching, used other feedbags to make hanging feeders for kidding pen.

I dont think anyone will be kidding tonight


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## Sweetened (Feb 8, 2015)

Gretels ligs are still prominent, but she is spacey, small bit of white discharge, little faster breathing. Some interest in food but ligs aaaall the way there. Doe code in action. Wheres my coffee...


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## goats&moregoats (Feb 8, 2015)

good luck. waiting  with you as well.


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## Sweetened (Feb 8, 2015)

Gretel day 146: ligs are spongey this morning, laying down makes her breathe hard, i think because of how large she is. Eating isnt her top priority but no more discharge, udder still has a way to go.

Gladys, day 145, will be a challenge to train to milk! She is sick of me touching her udder and checking her ligs. Udder is more rogid but still not tight, getting there. Ligs are firm.




 


 


 

Sorry they are sideways again. Im guessing twins, maybe on valentines day, so day 152. Remember, this girl is 260lbs not pregnant, shes huge!

What are your predictions?


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## bonbean01 (Feb 8, 2015)

My guess is twins ...one boy one girl...and she won't make it to Valentines day.


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## Sweetened (Feb 8, 2015)

Id like that. I was thinking boy girl as well


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 8, 2015)

I'm no good at making predictions


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## Sweetened (Feb 8, 2015)

Lol neither am i


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## Southern by choice (Feb 8, 2015)

Gosh I would loveto see a pic where there was something to really have scale... 26o lbs?  She doesn't seem that big ... because of the lack of scale. What kind of goat is she?


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## Sweetened (Feb 8, 2015)

Wonder what i could use to scale her... im 5'8 and her head comes to the top of my belly, just under the bra line.

Shes nubian/saanen/toggenburg (or alpine, guy i bought from doesnt remember but is almost certain its toggenburg). Over 50% nubian as the dam was that cross too and sire was nubian.


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## Sweetened (Feb 8, 2015)

The top section of gretels ligaments are very mushy, but the bottom half is still easy to find.

Tootsie, on the other hand, on day 142,  has nearly gone ligaments


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## Sweetened (Feb 8, 2015)

Gretel is following the doe code to the letter. I went back and looked at last years thread, and staying true to form, her ligs are coming and going. She has, however, dropped noticeably. We have set up the kidding pen, locked her in and hope she will relax and get it over with already!


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## Sweetened (Feb 8, 2015)

Because of tootsies behavior, i have put her in the kidding pen with gretel and will be watching both of them tonight.


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## babsbag (Feb 8, 2015)

Just to let you know, my does go to at least 150 always, 155 most of the time, and 160 on occasion. You may have a few more days and they may very well make it to Valentine's day. Anything before 150 scares me.

Good luck, hope it all goes smooth.


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## Sweetened (Feb 8, 2015)

Yeah, looked over last years thread and, though our dates were approximate, she went to 152 (Gretel), which is fine. Tootsie is the one in concerned with right now, tomorrow is 142 for her and she has been acting out of sorts and looks like shes fighting off early labor. Her breathing has gotten raspier as shes shifted babies so i dint know if theyre sitting funny or what. She doesnt want to lay down. Shes always had a rasp, she pulls hard on leashes, like some dogs do, and former owners tethered her out and i think its directly related. Never been detrimental, just never been this prominent.


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## babsbag (Feb 8, 2015)

Hope she hangs on for you. 142 is really too early.


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## Sweetened (Feb 9, 2015)

Tootsie's ligs were hard all night, but this morning that whole area was mushy and hard to find ligs.  She's up wandering around.  Her bag is only about half filled, so I'm thinking she's just one of _those_ that likes to play peek-a-boo ligaments.

Gretel had some crusty yellow discharge this morning but no changes.  Ligs are still easy to find and somewhat flexible.

Gladys, no change.  Bag is still filling but not stretched, no discharge, solid ligs, bitter about being touched and handled.


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## Sweetened (Feb 9, 2015)

If tootsie's ligs stay this way, i think she will kid in the next 24 hours. Verry very hard to find them, shes not eating, spends a lot of time laying down and when shes up, her tail is up and curled, back is a little arched.  no discharge yet and she sure is not lovey.  She is day 142 today so i guess we will see what happens and how it goes. Anyone have experience with early births want to share? I would assume itd be best to pull thebaby or babies?

Gretels ligs are more difficult to find and she has thinned down a little more. If tootsie is up, shes up as well, filling her face; otherwise they are both laying together.


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## Sweetened (Feb 9, 2015)

Gretel, getting a sticky tail. Ligs arent different from earlier but are still looser than yesterday. Day 147



 

Tootsie, eating now, ligs are still very hard to find, hair on the udder is starting to show skin through. You can really see her hip bones and how sunken she looks in the picture. You can see her tail is getting sticky


 

 

Gladys. Starting to hollow out. Day 146.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 9, 2015)

thanks for sharing the pictures...our new doe is due around Feb 18th and we are keeping close tabs on her.

Good luck and thinking PINK for you!


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## Sweetened (Feb 9, 2015)

If they help someone thats awesome. I hope to print them out and attach them to dates so this is helping me record keep


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## bonbean01 (Feb 9, 2015)

I have sheep, but no goats....but...looking to me that you are getting pretty close to babies arriving!  Hope all goes well 

I don't use a marking harness here during breeding time on my ram, and usually don't witness a breeding, so I have never known exactly many days pregnant any of them are...so far not aware of any early lambs, so no experience with that here.

Keep us posted!  Lots of us crazy baby fools on here....LOL!


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## babsbag (Feb 9, 2015)

I am really hoping for you that Tootsie waits a few more days, about 8 would be good.

If she is really at day 142 you will have to pull the kids and may have to tube feed them. They will not be able to regulate their body temp at all so you need a heating pad and probably a heat lamp too, with a thermometer close at hand. Don't want them too hot either.

Anything before 140 days is usually not going to make it so the longer she holds out the better.  Also, if they do come this early she may not have colostrum yet so be ready to maybe milk some out of your does that are farther along than she is.


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## Sweetened (Feb 9, 2015)

Thanks babs. 

As of my last visit out there about 10 minutes ago, tootsies ligs are hardened right up and she has gone back into the herd (she bolted past me out of the kidding pen). I have left gretel seperated, but i dont think kidding is on her mind anymore.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 9, 2015)

that she waits more days for you


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## Sweetened (Feb 10, 2015)

Gladys, day 147, no change. The only doe who didnt get the doe code memo. At least ill know she is serious.

Tootsie, day 143. Ligs are GONE. I'd be willing to bet purpousfully stepping barefoot on a lego that will change by noon.

Gretel, day 148. Someone guessed tuesday, and with the expected 10cm of snow today and -20 temperatures tomorrow, you may be right! Her ligs were strong this morning but she didnt go looking for food when she finally stood up and laying back down is burdensome, so when i had left after watching her for a half hour, she was still standing. She starts to kneel down her front legs and then grunts a bit and stands. Much of her tome is spent scratching (not normal for her), and it sounds like she might be starting tummy talk. She wanders forward and back in a 3ft line.

But im sure this is a pointless update and theres still 54 more days until she decides to kid *eyeroll*


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## bonbean01 (Feb 10, 2015)

I dunno....but I'm thinking you may lose that bet and have a sore foot by tonight...my kids loved lego...my feet hated lego. 

Another possibility is that she is just positioning baby/babies?  Had a ewe do this several times and fooled me with her behaviour with neck stretching, grunting, groaning, spacing out away from the rest, having trouble getting up and down and she was about 10 days later before she had her twins....BUT...that Mama talking to her side...that I've only seen right before labour.

Your temps are COLD!!!!  I've been in the South now for 20 years and have become quite a wimp...when I visit family in Saskatchewan in winter I always wonder why we do Christmas in that cold, and then have visitors here in the blistering heat in summer?  Had a family reunion last summer in Canada and that was awesome! 

We have a cold front coming in later this week here and although not as cold as you, not set up for your kind of cold either...three sided shelters but no barn here...couldn't do that where you are!


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## Sweetened (Feb 10, 2015)

Ligs are on the way back for tootsie. Looking at pictures of her from 3 weeks ago to about a week ago, those kids are already in position. If it wasnt for having seen kicking on her side, i would nearly say she aborted/absorbed them.

Gretel is unchanged, still mumbling when she is scratching her right side.  

This may be my last post as i plan to commit myself since in going insane. I thought hand breeding would be better because id know the days, and i suppose it is because i havent been nutso for 14 days, only 4.

I dont miss summers in the south, and i like snow so maybe the mountains would have been better for me. I think raising animals in that humid and hot environment would be harder than the frigid cold.  They always say cold and dry is better than hot and humid. Our bucks are in a garden shed with the doors open, so essentially a 3 sided shelter, and the sheep are in a 3 sided shelter and we have no issues. My coop is drafty, cold and unheated, and the only aninals getting special treatment are pregnant does in the 2 car garage turned barn lol.

I neeever got used to the heat in the south and i was there 10 years. I commend you! But youve got all that kudzu down there! Great for cattle


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 10, 2015)

hang in there... , hopefully she will wait several more days for you!  our new doe is at day 142 (so we are right behind you)- since we have only had her since Sat- we have no idea what "normal" is for her.


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## Sweetened (Feb 10, 2015)

Yeah this is our first year with tootsie. I co tacted former owners but they are very much people who check for babies ever 2 hours around thr 5 month mark when the buck went in. They dont check ligs or take notes and stuff so they couldnt help me. Which is totally fine.

Just drivin me nuts. I want healthy happy kids on the ground!


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 10, 2015)

I hear you on healthy kids- we are suppose to get much colder here by the end of the week.  Our doe is a first timer-guess we will learn together!


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## Sweetened (Feb 10, 2015)

Last year we kidded in 40 below. I just made certain they were dry, made polar fleece coats by cutting rectangles and a leg hole and had them under a heat lamp for 24 hours.


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## babsbag (Feb 10, 2015)

You can save yourself some sanity if you don't start checking until day 149  and if they go before that you are just surprised and still sane 

As far as the Lego, it is called the Lego limp and we knew it well in this house.  But my eldest son said that all those Lego instructions made him capable of putting together his new IKEA furniture as he is used to building from pictures and not words 

I would never bet anything important or painful on a goat, they will make you suffer every time.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 10, 2015)

DH has just about finished making a heating barrel so the kid(s) can get/stay warm. Just trying to have items on hand 

Do you find that a birthing pen helps?


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## Sweetened (Feb 10, 2015)

The kidding pen is just a 10x10 dog kennel. I do it to avoid potential agression from other goats. Flora really bunts at gretel. I dont think it speeds anything along lol


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## Sweetened (Feb 10, 2015)

Top half of gretels ligs have gone loose and, unlike the past couple days when they have loosened off a little, that top area is mushy. 

This is all meaningless lol.


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## babsbag (Feb 10, 2015)

Yup, meaningless as they change by the 1/2 hour 

I have kidding pens, 5x5, and I love them. I used to let them kid where ever they were at the time but as I got more goats it got too likely that they would be kidding at night or in the rain. Once I learned that I should try and be present for birthing I lock them up on day 150 and I have a barn cam on 3 of my 6 pens. This lets me watch from the comfort of my nice warm house/bed.  I also find the goats bond more quickly and it is easier for the kids to find mom. And last but far from least I don't trust my LGDs not to pull on the afterbirth.   Don't need any hemorrhaging does.  I wish I had trained the dogs better but when they were pups I didn't know it would be an issue; totally no experience with dogs and livestock.


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 10, 2015)

We are now kidding in luxury with our 6x8 stalls for our ND's 

We've had plenty drop them in the yard though

Never had a problem with Mikey though

He does love some baby goat turds though 
They are like candy to him


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 10, 2015)

Good luck Sweetened! 

The earliest I have had a doe kid was on day 144. The kid was fine, she was a big girl too! 1 of our standard girls always kids on day 145 and the other kidded on day 146. 

I would prepare to bring babies in.....Just in case!

I have been following your thread, I am so sorry for your loss


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## Sweetened (Feb 11, 2015)

Thanks everyone! I thought about it last night and i cant imagine not starting checks early. We kid in FRIGID weather. To not check and just be surprised may resilt insurprise frozen kids. I feel a bit more rational now.

Gretel day 149 and its farking cold, so who knows. Better weather coming tomorrow.  Ligs unchanged, soft and mushy on top hard on bottom.

Gladys day 148, no change.

Flora and tootsie are 144 today and flora has zero udder and i havent seen kid movement in a week and a half to 2 weeks?


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## Southern by choice (Feb 11, 2015)

Watch them all go at once!


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## Sweetened (Feb 11, 2015)

Ohw lawdy... aint that the truth.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 11, 2015)

with their winter coat can you even see movement?


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## Sweetened (Feb 11, 2015)

Oh yeah, strong movements easilly. The obers hair gets longer but nothing like our saanens and our nubian mixes have like... a double layered coat.


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## Sweetened (Feb 11, 2015)

Our new buckling, next year's herd sire was picked up yesterday.  Maybe these pictures can tide you over.  They are not excellent, my camera lens was freezing up.  I also havent touched them up.

YAY goat coat!



 


 

He LOVES dogs.


 


 
I'd be scared of this cat as well!


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 11, 2015)

He is a cutie patootey!


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 11, 2015)

Nice


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 11, 2015)

Congrats! Is that your guard cat?


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## bonbean01 (Feb 11, 2015)

Congrats!!!


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## Sweetened (Feb 11, 2015)

Lol hens and roos, youd think so. Her name is basil, her sister is pepper; the only way they can be told apart is basil looks perpetually ticked off.


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## Sweetened (Feb 11, 2015)

Day 149 for gretel. Ligs unchanged, still soft on top, hard on the bottom.

Day 148 for gladys. More milk in her bag. Still a lot of growing room but definitely more in there!


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## bonbean01 (Feb 11, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Feb 12, 2015)

Gretel day 150. Until 5:15 this morning, she had been standing all night with tootsie.

Tootsie and flora are 145. I will get new pictures of them today.

Gladys day 149. Further udder development, no change on ligs.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 12, 2015)

well they have all made it to 145... that's good!

Love your new addition!


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## Sweetened (Feb 12, 2015)

Gosh hes precious, settling in well. He sure needs a friend though.

Heres tootsie, day 145, i dont think you can get much more of a sunken look. She is stretching lots today and fence standing. Guesses and predictions? She was waaaay wider a couple weeks ago if you decide to go back in the thread.



 

Flora day 145. Still cant see kid movement anymore. No udder development, no stretching, ligs are easy to find. Guesses on whether or not she is pregnant?


 

Gretel day 150, also fence stretching with tootsie. I feel like those two are going to kid at the same damn time together lol. Gretels udder tightened up a bit this morning.


 

Gladys day 149, ligs felt different this last check. They are very wide out so already different to look for, and they just seemed harder to find.


 

So i checked her udder and it was getting tight! Less movement and space. How pretty is this!!


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 12, 2015)




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## bonbean01 (Feb 12, 2015)

that broke me out laughing....that last pic...how pretty is this...cracked me up...now the back end of a goat is not my idea of "pretty" and her hoohaw...not pretty...but her udder is looking more impressive 

Hoping for easy births and beautiful babies!!!!


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## Mantis71 (Feb 12, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Feb 12, 2015)

Lol bonbean, i meant her udder! I am IMPRESSED. Gretel has a nice udder but low production, tootsie has high production but poor (not awful) foreudder attachment, and requires a veeerry strong hand on those big teats. Agnes had a decent udder but was boer so not a tonne of production. Flora has an impressive udder as well. Betty had good production, but was untrainable and unrestrainable, small teats and heavier on one side.

So i am admiring what looks to be the nicest one here!

No predictions? Im pouty.


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## Mantis71 (Feb 12, 2015)

I say Tootsie will go overnight.


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## Sweetened (Feb 12, 2015)

I was thinking that myself. That girl has been locked and loaded for a week and a half.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 12, 2015)

bonbean01 said:


> that broke me out laughing....that last pic...how pretty is this...cracked me up...now the back end of a goat is not my idea of "pretty" and her hoohaw...not pretty...but her udder is looking more impressive
> 
> Hoping for easy births and beautiful babies!!!!



Ok I thought the same thing @bonbean01 
I know Sweetened is a little twisted too so she probably laughed!


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## Sweetened (Feb 12, 2015)

A LITTLE twisted? Understatement. lol


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## Mantis71 (Feb 12, 2015)

"I know Sweetened is a little twisted too so she probably laughed!" < all the best people usually are! lol


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## Sweetened (Feb 12, 2015)

Awh that was nice of you!!


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## Sweetened (Feb 13, 2015)

Up for my first 2 hour check of the night. Tootsie got up when i decided to lift her tail (she HATES that). Tootsie has a small (ie size of a pea) creamy white discharge and some stickiness to her tail. I have opted to stay up and watch the Flintstones and head out in another hour for another look. When she kidded last year i remember the people we bought her from saying they checked for kids, came back 2 hours later and she had given birth.


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## babsbag (Feb 13, 2015)

That white discharge could mean kids today or next week .  Hope you have a lot of movies to watch. Glad they have all made it past day 145.

I have seldom seen kids move in my does. A lot of times the movement I do see is their rumen.


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## Sweetened (Feb 13, 2015)

Gretel day 151, ligs unchanged, relaxed on top, firm on bottom. 

Gladys day 150, groans through rumen movement when laying down. Super uncomfortable. Boy can she stretch though, i watched her get her head under her back leg to scratch her udder. She groaned a lot about it, but accomplished it.

Flora day 146, actually appeared to be opening up this morning, but i may just be overly hopeful.

Tootsie day 146, still no ligs, but it is the moring. No interest in hay, lost her mucus plug last night (which i could have sworn she did a couple weeks ago). She gets up if/when i try and check for discharge, but otherwise wont get up. When i get her up she squats to urinate and very little comes out. She is actually even THINNER than yesterday -- didnt think that was possible with a baby in there!


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## Southern by choice (Feb 13, 2015)

maybe today


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## Sweetened (Feb 13, 2015)

Maybe. But we are expecting 10-15cm of snow tomorrow with a windchill of -40 from the worst wind direction possible. So probably tomorrow!


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 13, 2015)




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## luvmypets (Feb 13, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Maybe. But we are expecting 10-15cm of snow tomorrow with a windchill of -40 from the worst wind direction possible. So probably tomorrow!


Yea we are getting bad weather too! As I was reading through all the posts that I missed I was laughing in my head, you guys are such comedians. Anyhow I would take a bet and say that she will go when you yourself can barely drag yourself outside cause its so cold. Our one ewe Belle lambed on the coldest day of the year last year, but thats another story. I am so jealous everyone is getting babies, I want my share  These next few weeks are gonna feel like years


Hope they kid soon


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## Sweetened (Feb 13, 2015)

Ohhh the weather and temperature here doesnt stop us, cant stop us, is no an option. I will, however, stock everyone up on food and water so im not lugging that around in cutting wind.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 13, 2015)

If the option was given I would take more snow over the cutting winds....


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## Sweetened (Feb 13, 2015)

Tootsie's ligs are still gone, tail head is raising up.  Maybe today/tonight.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 13, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Feb 13, 2015)

Tootsies raised tailhead, if im not mistaken. I separated her again. Just in case, and in hopes she will resign herself to the delivery process.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 13, 2015)

Does look pretty close!


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## luvmypets (Feb 13, 2015)

x2


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## Sweetened (Feb 13, 2015)

Got loved on by gretel (not normal). Was touching her right side and felt a huge knob sticking out her side, moved and push against me. I must say, i hope its not a head or we are in trouble again this year with a huuuge single.


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Feb 13, 2015)

Can't wait to see pictures of the babies.  I'm feeling lots of pink with just the right sprinkling of blue...


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 13, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Feb 13, 2015)

Lol i cant wait to just SEE them!

I would like a buckling. Little house goat needs a friend. However, if i am overwhelmed *feigns dismay* with doelings i -guess- i could pull one of those too. Just easier with buck and buck, dont have to worry about their stupid humping behaviors causing accidents


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 13, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

Gretel will kid within the next few hours.  Ligs are gone (since about 10:30 last night), won't lay down, happily greeted me (she usually glares skeptically, is friendly but only once I catch her), circles, sniffs at food and moves away.  Today is now day 152, the same day she kidded last year.  Oh yeah, and the weather is CRAP!

Alright, so, I just looked over my old thread and here's what I gather from her first freshening.

Gretel stopped laying down around 3:30am
Ligs were unable to be located from 6:30am (3 hours)
Didn't eat from about 7:30am (4 hours)
Minor contractions were occuring at 1:30pm (10 hours)
First actual pushes at 3:20pm-ish (12 hours)
Big pushes begin at 3:40pm (12.5ish hours)
Complications ensued and birth happened about 2 hours later.

Excellent... in for the long haul.


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)




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## norseofcourse (Feb 14, 2015)

She's experienced now, maybe this time will go quicker?

  and thinking good thoughts for you both - did you get any sleep last night?


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 14, 2015)

Hope you have kids soon!


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## luvmypets (Feb 14, 2015)




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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 14, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

Experienced now... interesting concept this... experienced thing. She is sleeping on and off, eating on and off, laughing on and off -- err... i swear.

Her ligs are still gone, only when she is laying down and i am really trying to find them can i find ONE. But she is back up again, pacing, resistig laying down, nosing feed and dropping it out of the feeder.

So i still say today, but it could be more like... tonight i guess.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 14, 2015)

I bet she will kid today/tonight. 

So many people say that their does will go off hay and feed before kidding. I guess ours didn't get the memo because they seriously are eating alfalfa while they are pushing!


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

Lol. Im also going by her first freshening, which was a bad birth in the first place. Clingly to the last shreds of my sanity


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

Oh i guess i should update too:
Gretel day 152, kidded on this day last year

Gladys, day 151, ligs same, udder tighter yet, HATES the meat doe thats in the pen with them. She usually cuddles up with them at night but glafys will get up at acertain distance and charge her. I witnessed her 'freak out' a couple times and quickly scramble her head to her udder to lick and moan, but nothing else going on.

Tootsie and flora day 147, both unchanged.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 14, 2015)

Sending lots of positive thoughts your way


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

Started small contractions. Passed some discharge and is starting to talk, pacing.


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

I suppose i should add, it was hubby who came home from the store, did a check and discovered the development.


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 14, 2015)

Hoping it all goes well!


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

She is presenting and withdrawing a waterbag. Additionally she was spewing water at 11:10. Im trying to figure out when/if i go in. No actual pushing yet


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## luvmypets (Feb 14, 2015)

Thinking PINK


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 14, 2015)

Hope all goes well! 

We will be waiting to see your new DOELINGS!


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## Mantis71 (Feb 14, 2015)

CMONNNNNN babies!!!!!!!!!


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 14, 2015)

It's never too early to do a preliminary check.  Identifying a mal-presentation early is soooo much better (and easier to deal with) than a kid that has been smooshed into the birth canal in the wrong position!  I frequently wash up and do what I call a "finger sweep" when I see the first hint of a water bag.

Hang in there!!!


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

Still contractions, sometimes, mostly eating with long strings of goop hanging around. No pushing yet, havent seen waterbags for an hour


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 14, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

She has been having contractions since 11 but is NOT pushing. Is this normal and do i go in?


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 14, 2015)

I don't want to alarm you and I am probably wrong.  But I am concerned. The water you say poured out---that was a long while back, she has had lots of goo, lots of contractions.  Personally, I am wondering if she is dilating correctly or has a breech kid.  Does she look open?  Can you scrub and disinfect and do a light check to see is she is dilated or if you can feel a kid?


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 14, 2015)

I think you might put in a vet call at this point.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 14, 2015)

Is everything else OK? How is her energy level? Temperature?
I would go in and do a check, I suspect maybe there is a problem with presentation... and sometimes a doe will just give up and not push anymore.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 14, 2015)

Everything I am reviewing recommends interventions 30 minutes after water breaks.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 14, 2015)

I am on standby here in case.  I am wondering if maybe you have a butt first baby?


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## Southern by choice (Feb 14, 2015)

Pearce Pastures said:


> I am on standby here in case.  I am wondering if maybe you have a butt first baby?


That's what I have heard too Pearce but have seen differently with others goats... good rule of thumb though.

I am wondering the same thing. Hoping NOT but this is a long time.


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

I went in, tangled babies.

Successfully got live twin bucklings. Pictures later.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 14, 2015)




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## Southern by choice (Feb 14, 2015)

Great JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How is momma?  Glad they are alive!


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 14, 2015)




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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 14, 2015)

Glad you have live babies! 

Hope momma is doing ok


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

Everyone is fine. I knew i should have gone in early. The initial break did not include the presented waterbag and i continued to see it so figured babies could breathe. I thought it was a half hour after the first push, rather than water.

Next time i will just dive in when im uncomfortable with how its going.

They are beautiful, i left mom with them while i grabbed a bite. Will check on them shortly. They are both up, mom is interested and cleaning just not standing for them to drink yet and she doesnt want me helping with that. Icouldnt bring myself to pull one.


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 14, 2015)

Whew.... so glad it worked out!


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 14, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> I went in, tangled babies.
> 
> Successfully got live twin bucklings. Pictures later.



and


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## Southern by choice (Feb 14, 2015)

Give her some TUMS if you have any. Adds calcium which they can deplete quickly with long labor and difficult birth.
Do you give any drench or molasses warm water after kidding? This will help her perk up a bit.
It's been awhile and she needs to stand to get them nursing as well as pass the afterbirth, them nursing will help with that too.

Can't wait for pics!


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

She was never down. That was part of why i hesitated, i thought she just wasnt working on it, too busy eating. The kids were pulled with her standing.  I just gave her a gallon of warm molasses water! I dont have tums but will grab some for next time. Didnt know that. Shes not a heavy producer which helps.

We are breaking (somewhat) our antique name theme for valentines names. Meet romeo and cassenova.




 


 

Though sven is mostly white, he has a few patches of black sable hairs and boy are these faces sable or what!! I was expecting white or cream kids as i read it is dominant in an f1 breeding with a saanen. Well theres lots of lightness in there but they are otherwise ober patterned.


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 14, 2015)

Congrats 
Keep them warm up there in the polar vortex


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 14, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

Just trying to get their ears warm, everything else seems fine so far!


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 14, 2015)

You need to make them ear muffs!


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## Sweetened (Feb 14, 2015)

Thanks everyone for everything.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 14, 2015)

Congratulations on getting those beautiful boys untangled and they are so cute!!!!!!

Wow...go away for a day and I miss it all!!!!  Glad all are doing well!


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## babsbag (Feb 14, 2015)

I'm with bon... I don't check in for a bit and  look what happens. So glad they all came out ok. Having tangled babies is my biggest fear; good job getting them delivered.  They are adorable.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 15, 2015)

They are gorgeous! 

Glad to hear all are well!

Thinking of you last night as the cold has moved in. The windchill is making it 2 degrees here. Last night we were putting up plastic adding extra straw etc... if I had a goat kidding right now... it would be kidding in my house!


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 15, 2015)

They are adorable!  Like your sweaters.


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## norseofcourse (Feb 15, 2015)

I know you feel bad about waiting, but you've got two live babies and momma is fine, and that's what matters - congratulations!  They look very cute.


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## Sweetened (Feb 15, 2015)

Lol, for the sweater we just went to the second hand store and bought a big old polar fleece blanket. All i do is lay it on top, get an approx rectangle, snip snip, cut two holes! We use polar fleece because, even when wet (unless its on my feet *eyeroll*) it holds in body heat.

I found the pull very difficult, i dont have a point of reference for a normal birth. With gretel and agnes last year, i wasnt able to get beyond the cervix, so didnt know what to feel for. Agnes' baby was so big it took up her entire cervix which is why he was pulled with only one leg presented; gretel never dialated fully, so all i was able to feel was two feet and a nose, and spent that hour pulling and rubbinf her cervix, and the baby was huge.

I was very delicate to go in there, and finally, when i was in, i could feel the waterbag but was... almost scared? To push too far forward. When i did, i did so between her trying to push my hand out. I was afraid of bursting the bag and not getting the baby, i was afraid of hurting her and causing damage. I could feel the tips of two feet but no nose, then i could feel a bony triangle, then i found a head but no feet and an upside down foot somewhere in there. My DH was holdig her by the collar since she was standing and i was trying to talk myself through it. I just closed my eyes, took a breath andpushed in a little further. Finally i figured out the triangle was from the head i could feel, which is why the hoof felt upside down, i got the other leg pushed back and that bent leg instantly came forward and a head moved over the feet. I tried to make sure it was the right head and, at my best guess, i gave a pull. Water broke, hand slipped out, went back in and worked with gretels resistance to my hand to get him the rest of the way. Got the goop off, went back in. Found other baby, whos head was turned and one foot back. I could not find the other foot, but when i turned the head it was trying to suck and kept his head in place. It took effort, but i broke the water so i could keep a grip on the foot and pulled out the other one. I checked for another one but could just feel afterbirth so i left it there and she passed it on her own during the night.

Im sharing this in hopes it might help someone some day if they come across the thread. Really helped when i closed my eyes and just talked myself through it. Do what your gut says. Hopefully you get an unassited birth first so you have a point of reference.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 15, 2015)

Congrats!! They are adorable  glad everything came out good!


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## norseofcourse (Feb 15, 2015)

Wow, that's a great description of the process and how it worked out.  Thank you, I'm sure it will help someone facing the same thing.


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## Mantis71 (Feb 15, 2015)

Wow.  Holy smokes, lady  Great job.  Congrats on two healthy babies!!  That's a big concern over here.  I'm looking towards only my second kidding in a few weeks, first went fine.  I'll be reading your post over and over ....


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## bonbean01 (Feb 15, 2015)

You did great and thank you for posting that!!!  I've always feared tangled twins and not knowing what to do...this was so helpful   You did a good job of saving those babies and your doe!


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## Sweetened (Feb 15, 2015)

Heres a couple pictures from today without their coats on.

Romeo:



 


 

Cassenova:
I am concerned with his feet and legs. I think you can see from the pictures they are not quite right. He can get up and walk, but he marches in place with his front feet, so i dont know if they hurt him?


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 15, 2015)

His joints seem a bit soft, maybe slightly bent in on the front ones.  Give him a few days though and as he moves about and eats more, they will likely firm up and straighten.  If not, it might do him well to have a bit of Nutridrench or selenium gel.  Lots of people get BoSe from their vet which is better than the gel if you are in an area of Selenium deficiency.


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## Sweetened (Feb 15, 2015)

Thats what dh said, and i suggested selenium. Farmers in our area dont use selenium shots regularly as we dont have an issue with it, but im sure its needed on occassion! Will keep am eye on him.


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## luvmypets (Feb 15, 2015)

Finally!!!


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 15, 2015)

Most of the U.S. is deficient and other soil and plant contents impact absorption as well (like sulfur, iron and molybdenum).  I bet it is similar in Canada.  That said, our vet isn't keen on the shots and we have only had one who had an issue (which he said was just her poor confirmation--he was in error and we treated her with gel and now she has fantastic shape that visitors even comment on).  I know others will tell you the paste isn't worth its weight but it did help her.


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## Sweetened (Feb 15, 2015)

Excellent! It just seems to be a small area here that farmers dont worry about se and its just what ive been told from waiting for goods at the feed store.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 15, 2015)

Hope that works for him, and loved the photos!!!!  Such pretty boys they are


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## Southern by choice (Feb 15, 2015)

Pearce Pastures said:


> Most of the U.S. is deficient and other soil and plant contents impact absorption as well (like sulfur, iron and molybdenum).  I bet it is similar in Canada.  That said, our vet isn't keen on the shots and we have only had one who had an issue (which he said was just her poor confirmation--he was in error and we treated her with gel and now she has fantastic shape that visitors even comment on).  I know others will tell you the paste isn't worth its weight but it did help her.



Alot of the vets here give the Selenium shot automatically  which drives me nuts... we (our county) isn't deficient yet the ones around us are. 2 of my vets are not big on the Selenium shots for goats and won't sell a bottle for anything! Cattle here always gets it though.
Glad to hear the paste works pretty good. A few years ago the kiko's had some soft legs down on their pasterns... we just did the kelp balls and in 3 days they were fine.  Last year we did half dose of Selenium even though my vet was very hesitant... I think it was helpful. We have extremely high iron here and Dr. L at NC State thinks we may have a problem with the Molybdenum... it seems like we will be doing our yearly sampling of a percentage of goats for mineral analysis as long as we live here. UGH. 
I think we have paste here too @Pearce Pastures ... glad you saw good results. I will check the exp date on mine in case we need it.


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## babsbag (Feb 15, 2015)

We always give the BoSe shot to the dam before kidding and many times to the kids too. Minerals with Se and extra Se mineral blocks too; and even with that when we have to have a necropsy done that goats are almost always Se deficient.

I have a friend that is a 4H leader and she has 3 life sized stuffed goat kids that she will cram into a giant pickle jar and then have here 4h kids try to untangle them and identify parts without looking. It is a fun time and a good learning experience. AND HARD so you did a good job.


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## madcow (Feb 15, 2015)

Congratulations Sweetened on your husbandry skills and a great outcome from a difficult birth!  Difficult births are scary as h*ll and my first 2 with my pygmies (who are notorious for difficult births) had to have assistance.  I lost my herd queen and her 2 bucklings last year because she didn't dilate and I hesitated to call in the vet.  Thankfully all our births since that time have been unassisted and resulted in live births.  Birthing is always scary to me, simply because so much can go wrong, and I'm devastated when it does, because I feel responsible in some way, even if it isn't my fault.  Some goats always have problems with birthing, but for the most part most births happen without mishap.  Your bucklings are just adorable and you should feel proud in how you handled the situation.


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## Sweetened (Feb 15, 2015)

I guess i forgot to update days.
Gladys, day 152, a little friendlier, otherwise no change.
Flora day 148, no change
Tootsie, day 148, still has the incredible disappearing and reappearing ligament act, however is opening up and showing signs of discharge.


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Feb 15, 2015)

Wow - I missed some excitement!  So glad everything worked out so well.  Congrats on two beautiful boys - they are cuties!


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## Sweetened (Feb 16, 2015)

Gladys day 153, no change.
Flora and tootsie, day 149, no change.


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## Sweetened (Feb 16, 2015)

Gladys is kind of standing and marching in place, appears to have a little discharge but nothing significant, udder hasnt grown and ligs are still there. Her genitals look like... maybe pelvic floor exercises are going on in there? I think i saw this with agnes last year but cant remember.

Tomorrow is day 154 for her and 150 for the others and OF COURSE i have to work. I have friends coming at 10:30 and 3:30 to do checks and i will come back at lunch for a check. If they could just wait until im home after work, thatd be wonderful (but you just watch!!!). My friends are great people but have no experience with this at all.


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## Sweetened (Feb 17, 2015)

Gladys, day 154, seems to be putting more in her bag, otherwise no more changes, back to her old self.

Tootsie and flora, day 150, no changes.

And it just needs to stay that way until 5pm my time tonight.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 17, 2015)

hope she waits for you!


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## luvmypets (Feb 17, 2015)




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## Fullhousefarm (Feb 17, 2015)

Hope she waits! 

So far all our goats have birthed when we were home/around. Two of the four we did come home to first babies legs, so we did cut it a bit close. Lol. Also, none after 9 pm or before 9am. I'd like to keep that pattern going.


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## Sweetened (Feb 17, 2015)

Thats very comforting! So far so good. Friends hust headed out to do their last check. Gladys hollowed out at lunch and was looking a little poofier back there, all good things if she waits. her ligs were still firm and tight.  I will seperate her back off tonight after im done feeding everyone. I knew this goat would drag it out.

Heres a question. How far past the 155 do you wait before you get a vet or reach in there?

Maybe tonight! We will see.


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 17, 2015)

We deployed some @Sweetened baby sweaters for ours today.  They seemed chilled this morning.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 17, 2015)

I think some of @babsbag  's goats have gone to 160.


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## Sweetened (Feb 17, 2015)

Oh god i will just fall over. Hopefully tootsie and flora kid before then!!


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## bonbean01 (Feb 17, 2015)

The good news is...she can't be preggo forever!


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## Sweetened (Feb 17, 2015)

Lol! Truth


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2015)

I had a doe go to day 161. I saw the breeding so I know when the countdown started. I also had a friend SWEAR that her does were past due and talked the doc into letting her induce labor. She lost all three kids, they were early and she had miscalculated. Patience. I mine go before 155 I am surprised.


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2015)

Fullhousefarm said:


> Hope she waits!
> 
> So far all our goats have birthed when we were home/around. Two of the four we did come home to first babies legs, so we did cut it a bit close. Lol. Also, none after 9 pm or before 9am. I'd like to keep that pattern going.



I have come home to new kids after work,had them born in the early evening, and had them born in the middle of the night. About all I can say is that I have not had any born between 5 and 9 AM. Other than that it is open season.


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## Sweetened (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanks babs! Just something i am not experienced with, was worth asking. I know the breeding dates for sure, i hand bred them, watched my buck struggle to leverage himself to her height but he got it, several times lol.


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2015)

I remember counting those days. I thought for sure she was going to pop. She did manage to wait until I took a day off, but that wasn't how I wanted to spend that day. Goats...


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## Sweetened (Feb 18, 2015)

Gladys day 155, UnFrickingChanged
Flora, day 151, Unchanged
Tootsie, day 151, poofy back end, still has udder room but, if I had to guess if anyone would go today, it'd be her.

Cassenova's feet are doing better, he's walking well and they are straightening out.  They are already bounding around and playing with each other.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 18, 2015)

My Kiko showed nothing when I was feeding her alfalfa... 30 minutes later she had twins standing and nursing...
don't sweat it


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## Sweetened (Feb 18, 2015)

Yes I remember that post!  It made me smile and laugh and worry all at once LOL.

I must, however, hope it doesn't go that quickly as missing it in these temperatures means dead babies.  I am out every hour and a half.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 18, 2015)

I hear you on the cold, we are at least warmer than you!


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## SheepGirl (Feb 18, 2015)

I couldn't imagine having a herd of goats! They take forever to kid, lol...about a week and a half longer than it takes for my sheep to lamb. Of course now that I have a little goat I will be making a kidding thread for her when the time comes and I'm sure the lil turd will hold the kids in for as long as possible.


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## babsbag (Feb 18, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Gladys day 155, UnFrickingChanged
> Flora, day 151, Unchanged
> Tootsie, day 151, poofy back end, still has udder room but, if I had to guess if anyone would go today, it'd be her.
> 
> Cassenova's feet are doing better, he's walking well and they are straightening out.  They are already bounding around and playing with each other.



And here I was worried they were going to kid too early.    Standard sized goats seldom go before 150 so you are doing just fine...very normal.


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## Sweetened (Feb 18, 2015)

It's not tootsie and flora that are getting to me, really, it's Gladys.  They're all going to go at once  , like Southern said.

Flora has started stretching lots today, and she's the one who hasn't put in an udder at all.  I know she can produce, and produce plentifully, so when there's an udder coming in, I should know she's down to business.  Should.  Or when there's feet hanging out.

It's hard to not let it consume me, because it's an every hour and a bit part of my routine in order to make sure we don't lose anyone to cold.  I have to make those observations or the possibility of death rises.  I know the decision was mine as to when to expose them for it, and I stand by it.  I prefer to do it when it's consistently cold dry than when it's sometimes cold, and a little bit wet, and then it's humid and freezes again.  I hear about too many people here kidding in March/April or even June/July/August, and they lose kids and lambs to wetness and heat.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 18, 2015)

hugs for you...hang in there!!!!!  You just aren't quite crazy enough yet...you will be and then it will happen


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## Sweetened (Feb 18, 2015)

Ahah. THAT crazy means i give up and stop checking.


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## norseofcourse (Feb 18, 2015)

and sending good thoughts your way that all goes well


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## Sweetened (Feb 18, 2015)

Thanks!


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## Sweetened (Feb 19, 2015)

Gladys, day 156... no change.
Flora, day 152, no change, but if shes anything like her sister shes got another 700 days to go.
Tootsie, day 152. Poofy back end and no ligs this morning, but we all know no ligs with tootsie means nothing. She has been putting more milk in the udder, hubby confirmed (hes not desparate for progress like i am).  My other ober went on day 152.... maybe... i had to check close a couple times during the night as i thought she was pushing, she is just uncomfortable laying down.

I have officially gone crazy. I was up between alarms last night dreaming the girls were about to kid, had strings or feet out and id head out to find nothing hut disappointment.

Today would be a nice day for them to kid. Temperatures are good for today only.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 19, 2015)

and  hang in there and hoping they kid today for you!!


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## Sweetened (Feb 19, 2015)

I went out and checked everyone just after 10. Sat down, fed Oscar (house goat), finished watching border security, 15min, went back out to put oscar in with the babies and tootsie had water bags out, feet presented. Within 5 minutes she gave birth to a gorgeous baby girl and in another 15 minutes, she pushed, amd within 2.5 minutes we had a gorgeous baby boy on the ground. Both seem polled! Both are twice the size of gretels twins.

Meet Edward



 


 




And beautiful Pearl.


 


 


 

Oh and guess what. I cant find gladys' ligs.


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## SA Farm (Feb 19, 2015)

Congrats! Finally - a girl!


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 19, 2015)

Congrats!!!


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## Sweetened (Feb 19, 2015)

Thankks!!


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## babsbag (Feb 19, 2015)

Cute kids, love those easy fast deliveries; they are the best.

I am sure it is in your journal or this thread, but what kind of goats do you have and do you own the buck too? Those look like alpines?

Is their sire or dam polled?


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## Sweetened (Feb 19, 2015)

Gretel and tootsie are both oberhaslis, dq'd for pattern (gretel) and broken chamoisee (tootsie). both are polled

Flora and gladys are nubian/toggenburg/saanen cross.

I own the buck. The buck is a saanen with 2 spots with black hairs on him (sabeling).

Last year tootsie produced polled buckling off a nubian with horns


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## Sweetened (Feb 19, 2015)

Officially, gladys has no ligs.  Camp out time. Built another pen and got her moved.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 19, 2015)

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!  Beautiful babies!!!!!


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## bonbean01 (Feb 19, 2015)

See???????  All you had to do was be officially insane   Hope the next come easily!!!


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## Sweetened (Feb 19, 2015)

Lol! Ditto.


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## luvmypets (Feb 19, 2015)

Yayy!




Im getting jealous! They are beauties!

Mammy still has like two weeks


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## Sweetened (Feb 19, 2015)

Almost there


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## luvmypets (Feb 19, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Almost there


Almost.... It could be more  I really dont know right now....  I do however know I loooove pearl!


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## Sweetened (Feb 19, 2015)

Youre telling me!! She just gloooows in person and is so gorgeous. I couldnt be more thrilled that shes a girl.


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## babsbag (Feb 19, 2015)

Polled goats are awesome. I have 4 polled does and wish I had a whole bunch more. Really wish I could find a nice polled Alpine buck and then all of my does could have a chance of giving me polled offspring.

Someone asked me the other day why female deer are naturally polled and female goats aren't. Never thought about it, except deer have antlers and not horns, wonder if that is why.

I love your mixed up breeds, personally I think it makes for better goats.


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## Sweetened (Feb 19, 2015)

They can be big trouble, but i love horned goats. I have griwn to like polled for certain reasons, but if you put two goats with simolar traits side by side and one is polled and one isnt, ill take the horned one every time.

I mix breeds for lots of reasons, mostly its right for me. I like obers and saanens, but they are very dairy bodied. I like boers because theyre meaty, but they can be boring looking. Obers and saanens, for the most part, lack colour variety and i just love colour and pattern! So i dknt mind mixing breeds amd goats to get the traits i want.


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## norseofcourse (Feb 19, 2015)

Congrats - they are such cuties!!!!!


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## babsbag (Feb 19, 2015)

So you want eye candy that gives milk   That is one of the reasons I like my alpines, all colors except brown togg is acceptable. I had spotted boers too and this year are my last kids born 50/50 and I did get some neat colors.  ND have fun colors too.


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## Fullhousefarm (Feb 19, 2015)

Yay! Babies.


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## Sweetened (Feb 19, 2015)

Lol pretty much babs. I like variety for sure, and i like being able to look at traits and make choices and stuff. Only really has to work for me, hah.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 20, 2015)

Missed the whole thing! 
Congrats on 2 beauties!

Pearl is pretty!


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## Sweetened (Feb 20, 2015)

Thankyou 

Gladys day 157, will kid today. Ligs never came back and the tail area has just frther relaxed. First signs of goop at 6:15 this korning but nothing since. Loveable to me, but literally tried to kill the barn cats today and will not remain penned. She repeatedly rams the pen and is causig lots of trouble. I might pull her kids, i dont want them to learn cat hate. The other babies are curled up warm with the barn cats and thats helpful for everyone.

Flora day 153, grunts during rumen activity if laying down, so another pregnant sign. Otherwise, no change. Full ligs and no udder growth.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 20, 2015)

Congrats on the kids! Pearl is a cutie!

Glady


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## Sweetened (Feb 20, 2015)

Input needed.

First signs of goop were 630ish. Long goop stings started 3.5 hours ago accompanied by contractions. She decided to make her initial 3 pushes in/at the feeder. I moved her, and since then she laid down once brieflt, isnt contracting, isnt pushing and isnt gooping. I released her back out as she clearly will not ve confined.  No water bag has presented.

Should i see about going in and checking for problems?


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## purplequeenvt (Feb 20, 2015)

I would, but I'm very quick to intervene.


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## Sweetened (Feb 20, 2015)

She has been working at all this, ligs gone, since 11 yesterday


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## purplequeenvt (Feb 20, 2015)

I'd check. I'd rather go in and find that she's not quite ready than sit around waiting and then find out too late that there is something wrong.


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Feb 20, 2015)

This is totally not professional advice (lol, maybe not even helpful ), but I'm all about going with your gut.  If she's acting like she's ok and you're not overly concerned, maybe wait it out a bit longer.  If you're really getting concerned, go in 'for a peek.' 

Congrats on the the newest kids btw.  They are all cute as can be, but Pearl, what a beauty!


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## Sweetened (Feb 20, 2015)

What will i feel if shes 'not ready'.

I am concerned. I know sge has driven me crazy, but usually when theres goop you can tell things are going on. This is very gretel like is all


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Feb 20, 2015)

That is a great question that hopefully a more experienced goat breeder can answer very soon.  I'm guessing an undilated cervix??? I'm only on kidding season #3 and I've never reached into a goat that wasn't ready.  Hoping someone can share this valuable bit of knowledge...


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## purplequeenvt (Feb 20, 2015)

If her cervix isn't dilated then you will hit a dead end (and you won't be able to get much deeper than just past your wrist). If she is dilated, then you will be able to reach much farther and you may feel feet/nose or a water bag.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 20, 2015)

Update? 

Hoping all is well.


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## Sweetened (Feb 20, 2015)

When i went in  (super small considering the size of the goat), it took me 2 seconds to know something wasnt presented right and 20 minutes to figure out why i thought that. He was unresponsive, in his water bag, and i was finally able to get in far enough to push him backwards as there was no feet. Once he was pushed back i was able to find feet and pull. Took us 3 minutes to get him breathing; he is skin and bones. In less than 45 seconds, she delivered 2 doelings who are a good weight and vigorous. The boy is in the house. Has fight but we are struggling to get him nursing, i habe nothing to tube him with and our highways are a mess. Going somewhere is not an option.

Virgil (yep, hes alive)



 

Ethel


 

Edith


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 20, 2015)

Hope that little fella makes it.  The girls are precious!


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## Sweetened (Feb 20, 2015)

Thank you everyone for your input.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 20, 2015)

for the little guy, will he suck on your fingers- if so then slowly pull your fingers out while putting the bottle in.  We were given this great advice this past week when our buckling wasn't interested in nursing the doe.

Congrats! They're cute!


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## norseofcourse (Feb 20, 2015)

You sure are getting a lot of really good experience with assisting birthings!  Congrats on the two does, and I know you'll do all you can for Virgil, I hope he makes it.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 20, 2015)

Hoping Virgil will make it!!!  And congrats on your girls   Am worried here too with neighbour's little teeny tiny born in this stupid cold freezing rain weather...a tiny little goat baby girl and she is precious...think I may go steal her and bring her in the house and have a bottle baby!  Have never had a goat, but this tiny girl has stolen my heart with her will to live.  I am not a big fan of letting mother nature take her course...she is not always very kind


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 20, 2015)

bonbean01 said:


> Hoping Virgil will make it!!!  And congrats on your girls   Am worried here too with neighbour's little teeny tiny born in this stupid cold freezing rain weather...a tiny little goat baby girl and she is precious...think I may go steal her and bring her in the house and have a bottle baby!  Have never had a goat, but this tiny girl has stolen my heart with her will to live.  I am not a big fan of letting mother nature take her course...she is not always very kind



This stupid cold weather is why we now have a bottle baby-wasn't going to wake up to find he didn't make it.  Good Luck


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## bonbean01 (Feb 20, 2015)

Except this isn't MY baby...hoping my neighbor takes me up on my offer


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## luvmypets (Feb 20, 2015)

Sweetened this is killing me  


They are beautiful Im like drooling right now All your kids are precious! Im just waiting waiting waiting..., When this lamb/lambs comes I will finally be at peace... Ok getting off topic. Can I please take a visit to where you live and take all your doelings


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## Sweetened (Feb 20, 2015)

Yes! Wait a minute... no.

I made the heart wrenching (for me) decision and pulled all the babies. Gladys was spending all her time charging the cats, trying to get through the fence after the other kids and so on. She stomped on the babies several times and when they would try and nurse, she would keep backing away to clean the already dry babies. It will be a very cold night and they had already started to shiver.

Edith is by far the strongest. She took to nursing quickly (finger trick! Thanks!). Virgil got his first drink in, but ethel is struggling. She tries to nurse (great bump reflex) off edith, will take our finger but not a nipple (we have the red screw cap as well as the black, neither).


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Feb 20, 2015)

Congrats!  Triplets with two girls - that's impressive.  What a save!  Hoping the little guy makes it.  Sounds like you're doing a great job with everything.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 20, 2015)

You are doing great!!!!  Helping with birthings and knowing when to pull them...I have no doubt at all that you are going to be such a great Mommy and really hope my next visit to my Dad will include getting to meet you!!!


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## babsbag (Feb 20, 2015)

What a busy day you had and what a long legged little boy; I hope he makes it. Good job going in, once again, and setting things straight.  And about the nursing...grrr. Sometimes they are just so slow to catch on. If she won't take the bottle can you hold her dam and see if she will nurse from her?


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## Sweetened (Feb 21, 2015)

Virgil is doing so well, takes a bottle on his own now and they finished a full liter of colostrum last night and this morning between the 3 of them. I will go out and milk gladys again this morning. 

Ethel finally got a couple ounves in her this morning after much protest.

I have a couple questions. Edith has been raspy since she was born, her lungs just never seemed to clear despite pulling the mucous from her mouth and nose and rubbing her vigorously. She was up and alert the moment she was born so we didnt swing her (in fact, ive only ever swung... swinged? Virgil trying to get him to live). Has anyone encountered this? Thoughts on what to do? Its very noticable after she drinks but she is not aspirating her milk from what we can tell. Nothing is brought back uo and she does not lose any out her nose or even bubble.

Another question would be, has anyone encountered this skin and bones thing? I could not believe how thin and weightless virgil was and he really seemed to have very little muscle mass. He maybe, maybe weighed 2lbs literally soaking wet.

Thanks everyone for your help and encouragement. One of these years my kidding threads will be uneventful!!


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## purplequeenvt (Feb 21, 2015)

I've noticed that most of our bottle babies sound a little raspy after taking a bottle. I think the milk comes out too fast or something. 

Watch for signs of pneumonia. She could have inhaled something at birth too.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 21, 2015)

Sounds like they are trying to get the hang of everything.  Congrats on the cuties- you will have your hands full I'm thinking!


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## SheepGirl (Feb 21, 2015)

I've had raspy babies born, it hasn't developed into anything for me, though, knock on wood. Lambs become "normal" in a day or two.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 21, 2015)

You are doing great Sweetened!   And glad the little guy is doing well   The little teeny goat baby of our neighbour died shortly after I posted about her...so sad...a strong will to live, but not meant to be


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## Sweetened (Feb 21, 2015)

Awh bonbean! Sorry to hear that


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## Sweetened (Feb 21, 2015)

Flora day 154, no change.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 21, 2015)

bonbean01 said:


> You are doing great Sweetened!   And glad the little guy is doing well   The little teeny goat baby of our neighbour died shortly after I posted about her...so sad...a strong will to live, but not meant to be



so sorry to hear this


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 21, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Flora day 154, no change.



 , hang in there!


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## bonbean01 (Feb 21, 2015)

You are a well seasoned goat midwife Sweetened...your goats are lucky to have you 

Thank you for the kind words...kicking myself for not taking that baby home and at least trying everything possible...but owner believes in letting nature take its course...survival of the fittest...I do NOT adhere to that...I will jump whatever hoop it takes...we all have our own husbandry practices and mine is that where there is life, there is hope...and turn yourself inside out to give that life a chance.


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## babsbag (Feb 21, 2015)

As far as the skinny little boy, it just happens sometimes. I have two born big and fat and one born little and skinny; I see it in triplets more than in twins. I have never asked why, I just figured that for some reason they got shorted on the nutrition, or they are like the runt in a litter.

Hoe your little kids are doing well.


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## Sweetened (Feb 22, 2015)

Ahah!  This is our 2.5 year mark with goats. Guess its good to do this early on and learn quickly, then i can be grateful for the easier years that come along. Despite the stress, this has been a very enjoyable experience and i wouldnt trade it at all.

I truly truly apprecoate everyones help. Just up doing a feeding for the trifecta. Everyone has figured out the bottle but ethel wont suck unless its maneuvered under protest i to her mouth, then shes on it. Hoping that goes away over the next couple days.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 22, 2015)

Our boy still has to have help from time to time- sees the milk and tries to get it out the side of the bottle!


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## Sweetened (Feb 22, 2015)

Flora day 155, no change.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 22, 2015)

awwwww sweetie...2.5 years...I am going on 8.5 years with sheep and still learning so much every year...love my sheepies and lambies and also gobbling up all learning I can and experience is a wild ride for sure...and like you...would not trade it for anything!!!! Grew up on a cattle ranch and sheep are different, but that experience and confidence that I can do this...well...I'm loving it...stress and all   The learning never ends...the heart break...the joys...never end...we are a special breed for sure   And this year for me...raising and training my first livestock guardian pup, now almost 8 months old...another new learning experience...life is for living and you my friend are living the life!!!!


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## Sweetened (Feb 23, 2015)

Flora day 156, ligs are gone and udder is filling. Today and tomorrow are excellent for kidding temperatures. It was nice, i got a full nights sleep last night.

All kids except the triplets are outside in a pen together, bouncing around. Will see if i can get a couple pictures.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 23, 2015)

Yeah for sleep!! Hope she has them soon!


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## bonbean01 (Feb 23, 2015)




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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 23, 2015)

I thought I already posted on here????

Anyway, CONGRATS on the kids!!!!! Great job on getting those kids out, looks like you are getting really good at this lol

I hope Virgil is doing 100% better now!

I think you need to go squeeze Flora now


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## bonbean01 (Feb 23, 2015)

hahahahaha Goat Whisperer....have wanted to squeeze a few of my ewes a few times


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## Sweetened (Feb 23, 2015)

SURPRISE! Flora kidded between checks. Her bag isnt even 1/4 the size it was last year -- it has milk for sure but hardly anything compared to before! I suspect she will started packing it in in the next couple days. I have to keep an eye on her. She had an amber water bag that hadnt popped but when i went in there was just a mushy mass, and no kid. She is distracted by whats hanging from her but we got her to stand to feed. Will have to make sure she passes the afterbirth.

4 and 4 on the season isnt bad. Beautiful Fern, who was up, cleaned and almost totally dry when we walked in. Like i said, good night to kid.


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## Sweetened (Feb 23, 2015)

Oh and an updated picture of the triplets sleeping (gonna need a bigger box!).

Left is Virgil, middle white is edith, bottom right is ethel. I hope ethel stays this dark chocolate colour, but i have a feeling she will become the lighter (but still darker than flora) brown her mom is.


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## mikiz (Feb 23, 2015)

I love piles of babies!!! I would want to steal Edith! She's adorable I love the silver/grey colour


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## Sweetened (Feb 23, 2015)

I do as well! Love how svens two little spoys of sabeling came out in two DOELINGS


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 23, 2015)

very cute kid- Congrats


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## norseofcourse (Feb 23, 2015)

Congrats!  And you didn't have to untangle this one!


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## Sweetened (Feb 23, 2015)

LOL!!


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## babsbag (Feb 23, 2015)

Congratulations, I love it when they do it without our help. They are all adorable.


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## Sweetened (Feb 24, 2015)

Bit of a better picture of her this morning. Flora has calmed down and Fern is nursing just fine.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 24, 2015)

Like the names! Glad they are settling in.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 24, 2015)

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!  Adorable   Loved the photos of all of them


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## Southern by choice (Feb 24, 2015)

Yay! I like her color too!


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## catdiva6 (Feb 24, 2015)

Congrats on your beautiful babies!  I am sure you are enjoying them all!  I am still waiting....rather impatiently for mine.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 24, 2015)

Congrats! So happy for an easy delivery!


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## Sweetened (Feb 25, 2015)

Heres virgil, id say hes doing well. Hes the only one thats not a diva about the bottle. Edith has bad aim and ethel required a finger in the mouth before the nipple will go in and once she unlatches you habe to repeat, with her fighting the entire time.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 25, 2015)




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## madcow (Feb 25, 2015)

OMG, Virgil is so sweet!  He seems like a real fighter there and nursing well.  You are really getting some experience with having to go in and assisting with difficult births.   Congrats on all the new cuties!


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 25, 2015)

glad to hear they are doing good!!


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## Sweetened (Feb 25, 2015)

Question: how do you guys merge dam raised kids into the herd? The babies keep escaping back out with their moms when i seperate them. Nothing has happened to the babies, they stick close to their moms, but I worry about it a little. They are all over a week old now.

I want to keep moms out at night and move the babies into the kennel for the night and just be able to release them for the day after morning milkings.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 25, 2015)




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## Southern by choice (Feb 25, 2015)

Not sure what the question is... do you mean at night... you want to separate them so moms give milk in the am?

If so then you will need a kennel or stall that they can't get through or climb over.


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## Sweetened (Feb 25, 2015)

Yup, but im asking if after they can be feleased with their dams in the herd. The mothers are only quiet at night but will spend their entire day trashing everything to get out, whether they have food and water or not.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 25, 2015)

When we dam raise they are just all together. We give a few days with momma and kid alone then out they go with everyone. When it comes time for milking and we start separating at night once the momma is milked in the am she goes out and the kids get let out with her. It stimulates her to make more milk as she is now empty and they will try to nurse anyway causing her to make more.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 25, 2015)

Only have sheep that we don't milk, so have no input on your question...but must comment on that pic of that adorable baby....LOVE your pics...can't get enough of anyone's baby pics


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## Sweetened (Feb 25, 2015)

Thanks! Thats perfect.

Hapoy to share pictures


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## ragdollcatlady (Mar 1, 2015)

Congrats on all the kids! 

Bottle kids usually come around and take the bottle easier once they really figure it out. 

Good job on sorting everyone out! It is pretty scary when you realize you have a problem, disappointing if you can't save someone, but soooo rewarding when you end up with live, healthy kids and mamas.


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## Sweetened (Mar 1, 2015)

Thankyou! I agree. I was heartbroken at the thought of not being able to revive virgil!


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## Sweetened (Mar 6, 2015)

Unfortunately,  Romeo was found, crushed and buried yesterday in front of the feeder. It happened sometime over night and all i can suspect was the does jostling in front of the feeder resulted in his broken back and he ended up crushed and buried from there. Took us hours to find him.

Here are some pictures from today.
Cassenova



 

Edward


 

And his sister Pearl


 

Fern


 

And the triplets, Ethel


 

Edith


 

And Virgil


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## luvmypets (Mar 6, 2015)

Im so sorry  


Im really in love with all the kids!! 


Pearl and Edith especially!!!


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## SA Farm (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm sorry for the loss of Romeo  

The rest of the kids are looking great though!


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## Hens and Roos (Mar 6, 2015)

So sorry about Romeo


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## Goat Whisperer (Mar 6, 2015)

I am so sorry about Romeo


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## norseofcourse (Mar 6, 2015)

I'm so sorry about Romeo


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 6, 2015)

Sorry about your little one Romeo


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## Sweetened (Mar 6, 2015)

Thanks everyone. I feel awful about him, but its such a freak accident and Gretels kids are prone to either being miles away from her or right under her, doesnt seem to be a nearby point. Even cassenova is always under her feet, less now than even a week ago, but hes been playing with the others since the weather warmed.


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## bonbean01 (Mar 7, 2015)

so sorry about Romeo     Kids are looking cute and Pearl is precious


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## Fullhousefarm (Mar 7, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Question: how do you guys merge dam raised kids into the herd? The babies keep escaping back out with their moms when i seperate them. Nothing has happened to the babies, they stick close to their moms, but I worry about it a little. They are all over a week old now.
> 
> I want to keep moms out at night and move the babies into the kennel for the night and just be able to release them for the day after morning milkings.



How big is your herd? We have 10 does and two boys not counting kids we aren't keeping.

We have a kid-proof mom-proof stall in the back of our three sided goat barn. It can be 4x4 or 4x8 depending on how we close the door. We lock them in at night- usually after dark. We lock the babies in at night and let them out after moms are milked and goats are fed. We wait (especially with Nigees as we have a mixed herd of Lamanchas/Nigerians.) to put moms and babies out with the herd until babies are bouncy and moms are feeling well. Usually 2-4 days.

If it's rainy and we have little babies we put some of the big girls without babies in a separate pasture so the barn isn't as crowded with goats pouting about the weather.

We will have another pasture with shelter soon for dry does and ones that are bred, but not close to kidding. That will make things less chaotic in the main pen/shelter. We also don't have freezing weather here, so young kids getting lost/cold in a large area isn't a concern. Pasture areas are 1/2-1 acre.


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## BlessedWithGoats (Apr 20, 2015)

So sorry for your losses that you've had this year Sweetened!!  
Congrats on all the new little ones! I'm sure they've grown quite a bit already! (I don't know if I ever saw this thread before...) 
How is everyone doing? Have all your does kidded for the season?


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