# Please Help, Aggressive Pyrenees.



## CaliFarmsAR (Dec 13, 2022)

Howdy y’all, I need some advice on my GP.
I was given a Great Pyrenees puppy almost 5 years ago. We have tried putting her in with the goats as a guard dog, but she ALWAYS finds her way out of everything, no matter what we do and prefers to free roam 15+ acres. 
Well, as she has gotten older, she is getting more and more aggressive towards other dogs, baby animals, birds, etc. 
My mom told me she growled at my sister or something like that. As well as she will get in fights with the other dogs. There is a chance that she will be put down, but was hoping to see if there is something I can do to fix this.  Does anyone have any suggestions? 
She was my first dog and means a lot to me. I’m willing to put in the work if that’s what it’ll take to save her.


----------



## Youngfarmer2019 (Dec 13, 2022)

Hello, we have two pyrs and have had problems with aggression in one, so I may be able to help. First (as harsh as it sounds) find a form of punishment that works, or if your dog responds better to positive reinforcement, reward her for every positive interaction she has with people/other dogs/etc. How old is she? If she's up there in years, pyrs sometimes have problems with their back and hips, so maybe she's in pain. Watch her interactions with people and/or animals, maybe she gets aggressive when they brush against a certain spot on her. If so, warn anyone on your farm (People obviously, animals can't be warned unfortunately) against touching that/those spot(s). We steer clear from muzzles unless the aggression is extreme and instead use a no pull head halter. If her aggression towards people is extreme, consider picking up a muzzle, it sends a clear message to anyone seeing it saying 'I CAN AND WILL BITE, STEER CLEAR'

I also have a question for you, does she do well roaming? Are the 15+ acres fenced? We are considering letting our pyr roam free as she jumps any fence we put her in and we don't want her chained up.


----------



## CaliFarmsAR (Dec 13, 2022)

Thank you for your reply, it’s greatly appreciated. 
My GP is going to be 5 next month. She isn’t in any pain from what we can tell, I can pet her all over and she shows no signs of being in pain. Positive encouragement is better for her, I think. We have tried both ways and none seem to work well, she just ignores me a lot of the time. 😒
She is now just showing some aggression towards people, hasn’t bitten anyone yet, but we fear she may one day. I will definitely look for a muzzle maybe just to have in hand, can she roam with it on 24/7? 

That’s what my girl did, climbed/jumped every gait. She does wonderful roaming, she absolutely loves it. No, none of it is fence to keep her in, we have fencing, but for the cattle so the dogs have access to all the fields and stuff


----------



## CLSranch (Dec 13, 2022)

To her any other dog that passes by is a threat and is no different than a coyote. That's what they're for. Many who use LGD's also use a goat style, no climb fence. That doesn't mean she can't climb it but can't walk through it.


----------



## CaliFarmsAR (Dec 13, 2022)

CLSranch said:


> To her any other dog that passes by is a threat and is no different than a coyote. That's what they're for. Many who use LGD's also use a goat style, no climb fence. That doesn't mean she can't climb it but can't walk through it.


Yes, I am aware of other dogs being a threat, but she was always fine with the dogs she roams with, she has even adopted and raised a puppy we have who she has now turned on and that isn’t like her.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 13, 2022)

Whatever you do with her, do not rehome her. She is out of control and if she continues to get worse, she should be put down. 

What kind of fence do you have? What wire, how tall? 

If you want to keep her in, put up a hot wire and I mean singe her hair hot. Top and bottom.  I had a female GP, Paris-and she taught me well. Her nickname was Psycho B!tch. We put up a hot wire to keep her in. That was the only thing that worked. BUT she knew and respected family and certain friends. My grandchildren were safe with her. If she had ever shown the slightest aggression towards children-ANY children, she would have been dead. 

Growing at your sister and escalating aggression would be a one way trip to the vet for me. I will not tolerate an aggressive animal towards family. Your dog knows your sister belongs and is growling at her. No way. No excuses. 

This goes back to her as a puppy. You are not the Alpha dog, she is. Over time, she has pushed the boundaries out further and further. If you will deeply ponder on past behavior, you will see how this started, as she took control in little bits at a time. On your next dog, you will recognize those behaviors and deal with them while those behaviors are small. 

I am not criticizing you. Do not beat up on yourself. So many dogs are bred that shouldn’t be. My dog Paris, came off a puppy farm. Within a year, she was a problem dog for her owners and they gave her to me. It took me 2 years to turn her into a guardian instead of a killer, but she was damaged by previous treatment, nuts and crazy all her life. Poor breeding no doubt contributed to that. 

LGDs are incredible dogs and extremely independent. My 2 GPS taught me so much, I am forever indebted to them. 

Your dog is aggressive towards baby animals, does that mean the goats that you want her to guard? 

I suggest that you read all the posts on the LGD forum. You may not find the answer to your problem, but you will learn and benefit from the knowledge gained. 

Please update this thread and let us know how she is doing.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 13, 2022)

I recommend this book. Brenda Negri was a member here, I think she had an illness , she disappeared. I’m dumbfounded by the price of this book, on Amazon it was $192. I found a used one for $25. I have a copy and while I don’t agree with everything she said, there is much to be gleaned from her years of experience. 






						9781791345228: The Way of The Pack: Understanding and Living With Livestock Guardian Dogs - Negri, Brenda M.: 1791345220 - AbeBooks
					

AbeBooks.com: The Way of The Pack: Understanding and Living With Livestock Guardian Dogs (9781791345228) by Negri, Brenda M. and a great selection of similar New, Used and Collectible Books available now at great prices.



					www.abebooks.com


----------



## CaliFarmsAR (Dec 13, 2022)

Baymule said:


> Whatever you do with her, do not rehome her. She is out of control and if she continues to get worse, she should be put down.
> 
> What kind of fence do you have? What wire, how tall?
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response. 
She isn’t in any fenced area anymore, just free roams. If I cannot keep her, she will be put down because I wouldn’t re-home an aggressive dog to anyone. We have two bottle baby goats, they are put in the backyard in the day and if they come in the porch, where my GP lives to be, she will attack them. She used to be fine with them, but flipped a switch for some reason. 
I will keep this updated on what I do and everything.


----------



## Youngfarmer2019 (Dec 13, 2022)

CaliFarmsAR said:


> Thank you for your reply, it’s greatly appreciated.
> My GP is going to be 5 next month. She isn’t in any pain from what we can tell, I can pet her all over and she shows no signs of being in pain. Positive encouragement is better for her, I think. We have tried both ways and none seem to work well, she just ignores me a lot of the time. 😒
> She is now just showing some aggression towards people, hasn’t bitten anyone yet, but we fear she may one day. I will definitely look for a muzzle maybe just to have in hand, can she roam with it on 24/7?
> 
> That’s what my girl did, climbed/jumped every gait. She does wonderful roaming, she absolutely loves it. No, none of it is fence to keep her in, we have fencing, but for the cattle so the dogs have access to all the fields and stuff


She should not have a muzzle on 24/7 (barring meals obviously) as she would not be able to drink enough throughout the day. A no pull head halter allows just enough wiggle room to drink (not eat, you would have to take it off for meals) but won't allow her to bite anything. From reading your replies to everyone else it almost seems like she has a neurological problem. These are the specific things that led me to think this:
1. She used to be fine with people but is suddenly aggressive
2. She used to be ok with your baby goats and animals but is suddenly aggressive 
3. Is now aggressive with a dog that she has seen grow up from a puppy that she was ok with before (not so much with other dogs as that is to be expected with pyrs, just like donkeys with an ingrained suspicion or even hatred for other dogs)

Do you possibly have a vet to take her to, maybe they could do a scan to check for abnormalities in her brain. Or you're like me and don't want (or in my case CAN'T) to spend a ton of money on vet bills...

Keep us updated, i would like to see how this turns out...


----------



## CaliFarmsAR (Dec 13, 2022)

Youngfarmer2019 said:


> She should not have a muzzle on 24/7 (barring meals obviously) as she would not be able to drink enough throughout the day. A no pull head halter allows just enough wiggle room to drink (not eat, you would have to take it off for meals) but won't allow her to bite anything. From reading your replies to everyone else it almost seems like she has a neurological problem. These are the specific things that led me to think this:
> 1. She used to be fine with people but is suddenly aggressive
> 2. She used to be ok with your baby goats and animals but is suddenly aggressive
> 3. Is now aggressive with a dog that she has seen grow up from a puppy that she was ok with before (not so much with other dogs as that is to be expected with pyrs, just like donkeys with an ingrained suspicion or even hatred for other dogs)
> ...


Okay thank you, I don’t think I’d be able to afford a vet bill, especially cuz the prices at my vet we use is going up. I will definitely keep y’all updated


----------



## Baymule (Dec 13, 2022)

I am truly sad for you and your dog. I know this is hard and it doesn’t look to get any better. She will not like the muzzle and once she sees you with it, she could bite you. I wouldn’t use a muzzle, that’s just me. It is not a training aid, it is punishment. She isn’t stupid, she will figure that out real quick. Be honest with yourself, do you truly have enough control over her to put it on her when she hates it? Please be careful. If she growls at you-her person, then it’s time to say goodbye.


----------



## Blue Sky (Dec 13, 2022)

I wish I had an easy answer for you. First I don’t believe a muzzle of any kind will solve your problems except when the dog is being examined or in close quarters with people. Muzzles restrict breathing and prevent eating and drinking. If you can’t contain her and she escapes wearing a muzzle she will likely damage herself tearing it off. This dog’s future depends on containment. For her safety and for all around her. Keep us posted.


----------



## CaliFarmsAR (Dec 13, 2022)

Baymule said:


> I am truly sad for you and your dog. I know this is hard and it doesn’t look to get any better. She will not like the muzzle and once she sees you with it, she could bite you. I wouldn’t use a muzzle, that’s just me. It is not a training aid, it is punishment. She isn’t stupid, she will figure that out real quick. Be honest with yourself, do you truly have enough control over her to put it on her when she hates it? Please be careful. If she growls at you-her person, then it’s time to say goodbye.


It’s definitely hard. She wouldn’t attack me, I know that for sure, it others I’m concerned about. I will be talking to my parents and see what the think of everything.


----------



## CaliFarmsAR (Dec 13, 2022)

Thank you all for your replies, I will keep y’all updated on what I do


----------



## Baymule (Dec 13, 2022)

Sometimes we need an unbiased opinion from others.


----------



## Youngfarmer2019 (Dec 13, 2022)

Blue Sky said:


> I wish I had an easy answer for you. First I don’t believe a muzzle of any kind will solve your problems except when the dog is being examined or in close quarters with people. Muzzles restrict breathing and prevent eating and drinking. If you can’t contain her and she escapes wearing a muzzle she will likely damage herself tearing it off. This dog’s future depends on containment. For her safety and for all around her. Keep us posted.


Properly fitting muzzles should not restrict breathing but I do agree that if she’s being aggressive to use it only in close quarters…BUT this is why I suggested the no pull head halter, it does not restrict any breathing and allows for drinking freely. we’ve had great success with it (though it may not be the solution for everyone) I suggest treats (healthy ones to avoid weight gain) at any and every positive interaction she has with any people and animals, muzzle only if you deem the situation unsafe.


----------



## CaliFarmsAR (Dec 14, 2022)

Youngfarmer2019 said:


> Properly fitting muzzles should not restrict breathing but I do agree that if she’s being aggressive to use it only in close quarters…BUT this is why I suggested the no pull head halter, it does not restrict any breathing and allows for drinking freely. we’ve had great success with it (though it may not be the solution for everyone) I suggest treats (healthy ones to avoid weight gain) at any and every positive interaction she has with any people and animals, muzzle only if you deem the situation unsafe.


Thank you 😊


----------



## jambi1214 (Dec 22, 2022)

We have very similar problems and our lastest put Pyrenees mix almost killed my senior dog and did kill our cat so I know how real and scary this is. Tons of great suggestions mentioned. Maybe contact the vet to try some behavioral medications. There are tons of options out there for those but it goes hand in hand with training.
I learned in dog training school to never use aggression for aggression. But really focusing on other things like commands helps. If you use a muzzle start with short sessions of dog wearing it with positive reinforcement or the dog will associate it with bad things.


----------



## Ridgetop (Dec 30, 2022)

Baymule said:


> I recommend this book. Brenda Negri was a member here, I think she had an illness , she disappeared. I’m dumbfounded by the price of this book, on Amazon it was $192. I found a used one for $25. I have a copy and while I don’t agree with everything she said, there is much to be gleaned from her years of experience.


Brenda's book is still available for $27.00 on Amazon.  (I saw the ad for $192 which is ridiculous) It is based on the trans-humance way of shepherding.  This is leading out the flock to grazing and returning at night or staying out in open grazing with the sheep and dogs.  For this type of sheepherding you need a larger number of dogs that coexist and work as a pack.  No fences are involved because this type of sheep raising takes place on open rangeland.  Many older Basques in Bakersfield, CA, still use this type of grazing in the mountains on forestry leased land.  This is also the type of grazing @SageHill does with her herding/guardian dogs.

Brenda's book is* very good *as it focuses on learning to read your dogs, understanding the tones of their barking, understanding the ways LGDs work that often puzzle us until we understand what they are doing and why, and how to train them using their own natural reactions to livestock and dangers.  I enjoyed it and learned a lot.  She also discusses her use of several different breeds of LGDs and how they work in different ways.  Brenda is battling some severe health problems.  She is also working on another book about her experiences working on large ranches, etc.  

With regard to your dog and her escalating aggression, I would seriously consider putting her down.  If you do not choose to do this, she should be confined in a kennel run on concrete with a top from which she cannot escape. Since fences won't hold her (Pyrs are escape artists) a kennel with top and bottom is your only choice.  

Allowing an aggressive dog to run loose is asking for a serious problem to occur when she encounters someone and bites them.  Since you know that she is becoming more aggressive means that you have no defense if she attacks someone.  At that point the authorities will put her down for you, and you will be responsible for any damage to people, animals, etc. that she causes.  

Since she has been with you 5 years and was previously OK with your sister and the animals she was used to protect, putting her down would be the best solution.  She might have a brain tumor or other illness which could be causing this behavior but since you can't afford a vet visit and any necessary surgery or medications for whatever is causing this new dangerous behavior the best solution is to painlessly euthanize her before she injures someone severely.  

As animal owners we all need to remember that we not only have a responsibility to our animals to provide them with a healthy life and proper care, but to face the inevitable when it comes.  This means putting an animal down painlessly when they are in uncurable pain, illness, or become a danger to others and/or themselves.  It sounds like your dog has reached that point.


----------

