# Rescued goat with CL dilemma



## Ariel301 (Aug 26, 2010)

A few months ago I got a doe and her doeling from a local "sanctuary" (actually a crazy hoarder lady) for free. They just really did not turn out to be what we wanted, they are very wild and skittish and I can't get them to come around, if I do manage to catch one, it's a rodeo to hold on to her! And then I was given a papered LaMancha doeling for free also, leaving me with too many goats. So, I decided the crossbred "rescues" were the ones to go. I was going to give them to a friend of mine if she wanted them, that way when the sanctuary lady asks me/my husband/other people about them (as she often will) we could say they are fine without lying and making her mad, I don't want to start anything bad there because she is a friend of one of our good friends, even if we all disapprove of her animal problem. Well, today I found a huge CL lump on the doe. So, now I do not want to give this doe to a friend or have her in my herd where she can spread the infection....I agreed upon taking the goats that I would not eat them...my husband does not want to sell them to someone else for eating or anything because he doesn't want to lie to the lady about what happened to them, and I would tend to agree. We have the option of taking them back, but I hate to put another goat back into that lady's care, because she underfeeds them, gives them no medical care or routine maintenance, and does not keep them from breeding, so she has out of control populations and does/kids dying all the time. (Animal control here "can't do anything about it because there is no limit on how many goats she is allowed to own" and goats are not taken seriously here anyway so no one cares if they die and no one knows that they can't just live on garbage)

What would you do?


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## ksalvagno (Aug 26, 2010)

Put her down. Tell the woman that she got sick and had to be euthanized. That is not a lie.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 27, 2010)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Put her down. Tell the woman that she got sick and had to be euthanized. That is not a lie.




Telling her the doe had CL and you didn't want it to spread to the rest of your herd isn't a lie either.


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 27, 2010)

Yes, I agree. I would never send an animal back to that woman.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Aug 27, 2010)

and what if she gave it to someone else? and spread the disease?

i think your instincts are correct, you just have a hard task to do. 

sorry
:-(


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## dkluzier (Aug 27, 2010)

I would let the friend know about the CL and let her decide if she wants her.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 27, 2010)

I'd call the "sanctuary" lady and say....look....here's the deal....it turns out this doe's got CL, and her baby's probably got it too.  If you want them back, I'll bring them back.  If you don't, I'm either going to euthanize her or send her to the auction...it's your call.

If she wants them back, so be it.    

If not, well...send them to the auction or euthanize them.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 27, 2010)

I have to admit that I would have a hard time sending an animal back to a place that they aren't being taken care of properly. I would rather euthanize the goat and just let her know that she got really sick and didn't make it. A better life for the goat than one of neglect.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 27, 2010)

I agree.  I wouldn't even give her the option.


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## Ariel301 (Aug 27, 2010)

She WOULD take her back, no matter what she sick with. She has a few half-grown kids that have been unable to stand since shortly after their birth, they just lay out in the yard and she brings them a little food and water. 

I'm thinking putting her down might be the right thing to do.  Poor girl, she's only 2.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 27, 2010)

What kind of life is that for a goat to just lay around and hope someone brings you food. They are better off being put down. She sounds like one of those animal hoarders who can't admit when it is too much for her and none of her animals are getting proper care.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 27, 2010)

As bad as I hate to say it, my thought process was:

A) I don't like euthanizing goats.  Period.  If I can avoid it, I probably will.

B) Not sure I'd want to shoot the goat.


_Edited to remove graphic material_


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## ksalvagno (Aug 27, 2010)

There is the option of taking them to the vet and having the vet euthanize and take care of the body. It is more expensive but better than a life of neglect with no vet care at the original farm. I would actually rather pay the vet bill than give back a goat that I KNOW will be neglected.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Aug 27, 2010)

K is just right. Ariel can always call a vet.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 27, 2010)

ohiofarmgirl said:
			
		

> _edited to remove deleted material_
> 
> K is just right. Ariel can always call a vet.


If it's really that bad at the "rescue" person's place, and since they have a highly contagious disease, then maybe a trip to the vet for a clean euthanasia and disposal would be in order...but I'm not sure I could personally justify a stressful transport with two super wild goats that would then have to be physically restrained for an IV of euthanasia meds in the juggular, only to be handed what I'd imagine would be a substantial vet bill for the trouble.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong to offer to give them back, either...I'm just saying that was my thought process and what led me to suggest making it an option.  

Obviously, it's a really tough situation with no easy solution.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 27, 2010)

Unfortunately, it sounds like a choice of choosing the lesser evil may have to be made. I've been involved in too many rescues that I know I couldn't take an animal back to a place that I know will be neglected, especially if they are already unhealthy. The amount of time it would take to get that animal to the vet and have it humanely euthanized would far outweigh the weeks or months of neglect as it slowly dies. At least for me. We all have to do what we can live with. Ultimately, it is the choice of the OP what she can afford to do and what choice she makes that she can live with.


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## mossyStone (Aug 27, 2010)

If you can seperate the girls and live with CL than  thats an idea.. If you can not then putting them down would be the kind thing to do.. I would not give the goats back to such and awful place...

What you can live with is what you must do, only you can make the choice.....

You did good to bring them to your place and make their lifes better even if it's only a short time....

Bless your heart!!!!!

Mossy Stone Farm


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 27, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> As bad as I hate to say it, my thought process was:
> 
> A) I don't like euthanizing goats.  Period.  If I can avoid it, I probably will.
> 
> ...


I'm surprised you'd say that.  I've seen you mention several times you're more interested in the _quality_ of an animal's life vs. the _quantity_.  

I think a short time of stress (if there is stress with the vet coming out/being restrained) sounds a heck of a lot better than living with a hoarder with so-so conditions, no medical treatment, etc.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 30, 2010)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> I'm surprised you'd say that.  I've seen you mention several times you're more interested in the _quality_ of an animal's life vs. the _quantity_.
> 
> I think a short time of stress (if there is stress with the vet coming out/being restrained) sounds a heck of a lot better than living with a hoarder with so-so conditions, no medical treatment, etc.


I think what happened here is that I tried to put myself in the OP's shoes, which is difficult, because I've also said before that I don't take "rescue" goats in the first place just to avoid inevitable situations like this.  I've seen it happen too many times..

And for me, that's actually where the cognitive dissonance kicks in..  I love goats, and I'm willing to go to almost any length to make sure my goats are well taken care of, but if I see one languishing in a pen somewhere that's carrying who knows what kind of diseases...well, it's just gonna have to stay there because I can't risk the health of the rest of my animals.  It may be difficult to walk away and leave one in horrible conditions, but that's ultimately what's best for my herd.

So, to me, I guess I'm in the frame of mind that if I took one _just this once_ and had this pop up, it would sorta be a re-affirmation that goat rescue is a scary business...and one best left to someone willing to let their goats live in those kinds of conditions.

As such, the goat goes back, I tell myself "At least I gave it a try!" and "_That's_ why I don't rescue goats!" and I vow never again to rescue another goat.

I'm not saying it makes sense.  I'm not even saying that's how I'd handle a case of CL if it popped up in one of *my* goats, that *I'd* raised.  I'm just saying that's probably how I'd handle this particular situation if I were to find myself in it.


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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 30, 2010)

I may be way off base, but what if you offered them free (or better yet for a rehoming fee) on CL as scrub goats or pets with full disclosure of their condition? 

Or give your friend the option, again with disclosure of course. Might be tricky to weed out unsuitable or slaughter adopters, but if someone just wants a goat to keep forage cleared, or as a barn companion, or as a pet, maybe it could work out?

I guess if it were me I'd have to try. No way I think they should go back to the conditions you describe. Just might be hard to find a GOOD home with the way they are too. Really, as scrub goats would be the best use if they are that wild? 

Sigh ....  Sorry. It's not an easy situation. 

And I should qualify my whole post as saying that I don't know the effects of CL or the likelihood of them. Could be that my solution would doom them to a pretty 
iserable life if I'm underestimating that. I guess I just had to try.


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## Ariel301 (Aug 30, 2010)

It's not possible at my place to manage her in a separate pen away from the others, it would cost more than she's realistically worth to set up another area. She's cute, but not "show-goat" quality. I took her in just as a filler to get more milk because I wasn't getting enough from my purebred girls due to the abortion storm I went through this year, they didn't come into milk right. Then I made a trade for another purebred LaMancha kid, and since this rescue doe isn't milking anyway (she dried herself up right after I got her, grrr!) she's just eating and being useless and a general pain. I won't need her necessarily for next season with four other milkers, and my husband wants to cut down the herd size since our budget is really tight right now. If she was an amazing quality goat, I'd consider finding a way to manage her, my others are vaccinated for CL, but I really don't want to take chances, since I have a clean herd and don't want to bottle feed babies to prevent diseases like this. I'm sure other breeders can appreciate that. 

As for giving/selling her to someone else with the awareness that she is sick...not many people her would really be willing to manage her correctly, those that would are knowledgeable enough about goats to not want a scrub goat that they can't handle. If someone took her, she'd be tossed out in a field with no real care, and I'm not so sure that's good either...

I am going to make arrangements with a friend of mine who will take Fancy to her place down the road and put her down for me. It's just as fast and a lot cheaper to shoot her than take her to the vet, that could be a several hundred dollar bill here. The baby, I will vaccinate, then just wait and see, hopefully she has not been exposed enough to get sick. It's sad, but I think it will be the best for all involved.


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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 31, 2010)

Ah well, it's good you have reached a decision and have someone who will help you out. I know these things have to be done. 

Too bad we're not close. I guess I was thinking about offering her on CL because of conversations I've been having with my pastor. He was a cattle farmer who has raised lots of livestock and recently had a stroke. They sold off all the animals. He is in his late 80s by the way. After the animals were gone, they realized they don't like having NO animals, plus they need something to graze down near the house. He used to keep goats too, but he's been asking me all kinds of questions about my llamas.

Someone like him might provide a goat like Fancy a great home, was all I was thinking. Such homes must be very hard to find though. 

Hope the doelng comes out clean.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Aug 31, 2010)

Glad you were able to come to a solution...these things are always hard...I hate seeing them suffer needlessly. Its always best that you put them down when you feel you have to...Im sorry...  Its always a question that we battle with...???  

As for that women with all the neglected and sick animals...????  Is there any agency or anyone you can call to get them out of her care???  I will NEVER understand that hoarding sickness people have???  Its really a sickness???  Soooo wrong in all sense of the word???   

Good luck with the baby!     I hope she stays well for you!


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## ksalvagno (Aug 31, 2010)

I'm glad you were able to come to a solution. Unfortunately, this is one of those decisions that isn't easy and doesn't leave you feeling good about it. It comes down to doing the right thing. I hope your little one turns out to be ok.


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## Ariel301 (Aug 31, 2010)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> Glad you were able to come to a solution...these things are always hard...I hate seeing them suffer needlessly. Its always best that you put them down when you feel you have to...Im sorry...  Its always a question that we battle with...???
> 
> As for that women with all the neglected and sick animals...????  Is there any agency or anyone you can call to get them out of her care???  I will NEVER understand that hoarding sickness people have???  Its really a sickness???  Soooo wrong in all sense of the word???
> 
> Good luck with the baby!     I hope she stays well for you!


The humane society/animal control has been called numerous times by many people, but the only things they can get her on are having too many dogs or horses per acre, because there is a limit where she is, she can have two horses to an acre or six dogs, and she is over...but she hides the extras if she sees them coming, and if they find them and tell her she has so long to get rid of them, she will either hide them again or turn them loose onto the neighbor's property, or on occasion actually find a home for them. There is no regulation about having five hundred goats roaming around on two acres, and animal control knows nothing about goats so they can't tell a sleeping one from a dead one. This lady thinks it is "normal" in a herd that big to lose 40-50 goats every kidding season! I have a feeling she'd find more homes for goats, but she wants $80-150 in adoption fees for goats, and the few that are registered, she won't let you have the registration papers, and they mostly all have horns, most are bucks, and just generally unadoptable animals. It's sad, but nothing I can really do about it. I try to go out there on occasion and trim hooves for her, and she wants me to de-louse her whole herd, but she won't let me shave them or buy them a medicine to kill the bugs...:/ (And yes, any clothing/shoes that go out there are either thrown away or bleached before going anywhere near my own animals!)

Lacey, the doeling will probably end up going to someone as a lawnmower, because she is just far too skittish to be a milk goat. If she gets out the gate or away from my grip on her, she will run at top speed and who knows where she would go, I cannot catch her, and my property is not fully fenced. She's not getting friendlier despite trying to bribe her with treats (she's getting nice and fat though lol) or just catching her, tying her up, and petting her regardless of her feelings. And, I'm done with rescue goats! The other one I got, a little LaMancha buckling (born prematurely from a doe I tried rescuing who had one dead, one live, and then died herself), is five months old and only weighs ten pounds, he won't gain weight or grow despite anything I have tried.


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## MysticScorpio82 (Aug 31, 2010)

Ariel301 said:
			
		

> Emmetts Dairy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So sad...  I wish there was something that could be done...


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