# Goat with kidney stones?



## Alicia G (May 22, 2012)

Iv'e had my goat for a year now. He is a 3/4 nubian buck, neutered. He has been urinating dark, almost a brown/red color. I called a few goat owners/experts and I was told its most likely kidney stones and there wasn't much I could do about it. I really would hate to lose him, he's such a nice fellow.... Any tips? 
btw, we are getting his urine tested by a vet
Thanks,
Alicia


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## redtailgal (May 22, 2012)

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1272

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6670

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1539

I urge you to read the information in the above links.  Your wether is in serious danger, and you need to act quickly.

If you have any questions, please ask!


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## Alicia G (May 22, 2012)

Thank you for the information! Can someone please explain what it is I need to do exactly? I have spent my life around horses, but know nothing of goats  So I really need it broken down for me as I can be a bit simple minded at times >.< I would like to mention that he is NOT given feed (only as a rare treat) and has been out on fresh grass for a good month or so, also eating lots of tree buds/branches.

Thanks,
Alicia


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## redtailgal (May 22, 2012)

I've never been through this personally, but give me a few minutes to do a search and I'll see what I can find for treatment options.


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## Goatherd (May 22, 2012)

If he's not been receiving grain, I would hesitate to assume it's a kidney stone or urinary calcification.  He is urinating and that is a good sign.  A stone would cause him to strain and produce very little, if any, urine.
The dark colored urine may just be a very concentrated urine possibly due to a smaller intake of water than what he should have or a result of what he's been eating.

One way to prevent stones from forming is using a product called ammonium chloride.  Wethered males should have this as a staple in their diet.  It helps to keep the acidity of the urine in check which can become a problem for wethers.

If he's not acting out of sorts, I would just make sure he is drinking well and has water available at all times.


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## redtailgal (May 22, 2012)

This thread has an excellent post with treatment suggestions, some of them may be more than your goat needs right now.

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10181

It's also been suggested to drench with Cranberry juice or "Fresh Fruit" (this is NOT just a piece of fruit, this is a product in a package used to prolong the freshness of fruit, I find it in the grocery store with food storage bags, canning equipment, or at times in the produce section). 

Also add some apple cider to his water......keep his water cold and fresh and encourage him to drink alot.  Putting out a salt block may help make him thirsty.

You'll need the help of a vet, if possible, esp with you being new to goats, so it's good that you've already contacted one. 

Also, feeding a good quality grain is fine so long as it has AC  in the ingredients, and a GOOD loose mineral with AC is essential to preventing urinary problems in the future.

If this progresses to a full blown blockage (indicated by poor or dribbling urine stream) his chances of surviving are slim.  Your best bet is to jump on this hard and fast.

(and go back to your first post, click edit and change the thread title to read: URGENT: Possible UC


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## Alicia G (May 22, 2012)

Thank you again for all the help. He has been peeing what seems to be regularly, and he as doing some pretty sad noises this evening  I will be checking into everything I can.
Alicia


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## elevan (May 22, 2012)

*Even though he is not fed grain you should still consider urinary calculi because those tree branches / buds and grass will be higher in phosphorus than calcium which is what causes U.C.*

Now, I didn't say that to freak out those who don't grain their goats but you need to know that items that they eat that are high in phosphorus (or oxilates) will cause urinary calculi and this includes browse.  Know your pasture!  This is why we feed alfalfa pellets free choice here to counter balance the Cah ratio back to 2:1 as we know that we have high oxilate and high phosphorus browse and not a lot of high calcium browse at certain times of the year.  We're working on correcting that but for now we supplement.



eta:  I would also give him either a shot of banamine or some liquid ibuprofen for pain / inflammation.


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## babsbag (May 23, 2012)

elevan said:
			
		

> *Even though he is not fed grain you should still consider urinary calculi because those tree branches / buds and grass will be higher in phosphorus than calcium which is what causes U.C.*
> 
> Now, I didn't say that to freak out those who don't grain their goats but you need to know that items that they eat that are high in phosphorus (or oxilates) will cause urinary calculi and this includes browse.  Know your pasture!  This is why we feed alfalfa pellets free choice here to counter balance the Cah ratio back to 2:1 as we know that we have high oxilate and high phosphorus browse and not a lot of high calcium browse at certain times of the year.  We're working on correcting that but for now we supplement.
> 
> ...


I agree. I don't want to scare the original poster into thinking she has something she doesn't, but I had a wether put down a few weeks ago because of UC and he hadn't had grain in years. What he was eating was primarily wheat and grass hay and very little alfalfa. I mistakenly thought that the alfalfa and grain was the problem, but after he got sick I did some reading and discovered that wheat hay is 1:2, exactally opposite of what I should have been giving him.   I should have been giving him alfalfa hay or pellets as well. I felt really bad as I should have been on top of this, it was my fault.

As elevan say...know your pasture, or in my case, your hay.


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## Alicia G (May 23, 2012)

I took my goat to the vet this morning, he told me that he didn't think it was kidney stones. He did a once over and felt his bladder was empty and there was no sign of stones or swelling. Temp was normal as well and Mervin (the goat) was trying to head butt the vet the whole time indicated to him my goat wasn't as bad as we thought. The vet told me that he didn't think there was much to worry about and he thought maybe it was just something he ate. Apparently there is a plant that grows around here that is known to upset there stomachs (vomiting, the runs, bloating the works) something he referred to as 'lamb kill'? He was eating this morning and he pee'd a steady stream of yellow urine (not red/brown like before) and then ran up to me and head butted me in the stomach >.< Iv'e left him and his pony friend in their stall in hopes to get what ever it is out of his system
Please send good thoughts Mervin will be ok, I love him so much 

Thought I would show some pictures of my goofy boy. 





Mervin and his buddy indigo 




Apparently Mervin likes my camera XD




How can you not love that face?


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## Goatherd (May 23, 2012)

Glad to hear that Mervin was A-OK.  I do have one question for you though...what time was your vet appointment that you're back and posting this at 8:17 AM?


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## Alicia G (May 23, 2012)

well it was 9ish when I posted (different time here) but we took him to the vets as soon as the office opened, which was 7:30 this morning  we live only a 5 minute walk from the vets office anyways


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## Catahoula (May 23, 2012)

Alicia G said:
			
		

> well it was 9ish when I posted (different time here) but we took him to the vets as soon as the office opened, which was 7:30 this morning  we live only a 5 minute walk from the vets office anyways


Did you walk Mervin to the vet's office? He is cute!


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## redtailgal (May 23, 2012)

He is a lovely boy.........

I'm so glad he is OK!  


and you were right to get him to a vet asap!  thank goodness it was not UC!


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## elevan (May 23, 2012)

Folks remember that the time zone posted is YOUR local time zone.  We have members from around the world!


Alicia G - Did you happen to give a Vitamin B shot or give supplements of Vitamin B recently?  That could cause reddish or brownish colored urine.
You also want to break that head butting habit right away!  He could seriously hurt you or someone else.

Glad that he is feeling better!


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## Alicia G (May 23, 2012)

elevan said:
			
		

> Folks remember that the time zone posted is YOUR local time zone.  We have members from around the world!
> 
> 
> Alicia G - Did you happen to give a Vitamin B shot or give supplements of Vitamin B recently?  That could cause reddish or brownish colored urine.
> ...


No he hasn't had any extra vitamins given. He was de-wormed three weeks ago, but I am wondering if he got into my ducks food. It's straight corn, nothing else, but it must not be too good for him :/ He has been jumping around in the stall just itching to get out, but I think I will leave him in for a day or so just to be safe. I am going to pick up some of the Ammonium chloride (sp?) to help avoid actually running into kidney stone problems. 
Thanks,
Alicia


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## elevan (May 23, 2012)

Corn is high in phosphorus and can lead to urinary calculi.  Most grains are high in phosphorus.


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## Alicia G (May 23, 2012)

Will make sure to be 200 times more careful every bit of corn/grain is out of reach from now on.


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## elevan (May 23, 2012)

Alicia G said:
			
		

> Will make sure to be 200 times more careful every bit of corn/grain is out of reach from now on.




As long as it's not to excess grain can be fed to goats.  I know I'm probably confusing the matter but I just want you to understand that while folks do feed grain they need to make sure that Calcium to Phosphorus is at a minimum of a 2:1 ratio.

In addition there are certain plants that are higher in B vitamins and if he ate a concentration of them that day they could have resulted in his urine color.


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## Goatherd (May 23, 2012)

Here at Willowbrook Farm, all goats are fed grain conservatively twice a day, 365 days a year.  This includes the wethered male.  Never has there been a problem with dietary upset with any of them.

Make an intelligent and informed decision and act appropriately for what you feel works for you.


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