# Chickens in the sheep pen



## shy sheep (Aug 20, 2012)

Ok. I know there aren't huge problems with my chickens in the sheep pen, but I don't want the chickens giving my sheep worms, and I also don't want the extra poop to pick up. Plus, its just plain annoying. They should be in their own spot. And speaking of that, my chickens keep flying over the fence of their garden area, and they aren't supposed to do that. What should I do! The chickens keep going farther away every time, and soon they're going to go too ar and get into trouble! I'm worried. What should I do?? Any ideas?
-shy sheep


----------



## bonbean01 (Aug 20, 2012)

I wouldn't like that either.  We have chicken wire over the top of the outside chicken area...mainly since I don't want any wild bird in there that may have bird flu.  Our handful of totally free range chickens don't bother with the sheep since I think they're afraid of them.  I too worry that one day they might wander too far away, but so far so good.  Two were lost to predators this spring, but we knew that could happen.

Not sure there is a way to keep your chickens from flying in with the sheep short of a chicken wire roof, but that defeats the free range plan.  Hope someone comes up with a good idea.


----------



## Southdown (Aug 20, 2012)

I was actually thinking I would allow my chickens to go into the sheep barns.  I believe that worms and parasites are host specific, meaning that chicken worms cannot infest sheep and vice versa.  If this is correct, they can co-exist without harming each other.  From what I understand, it is actually quite beneficial to have diversity of species intermingle.  Maybe the chickens can scratch down the sheep manure and help it to compost faster.


----------



## shy sheep (Aug 20, 2012)

Their garden is too big for wire, I pick up the manure in the pen, and I also need them to be kept IN their pen, not wondering about.UUUGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Their annoying, even if I love them dearly. Th jump up on the fence surrounding the pen, and then fly over, what shound I do to the fence? I don't really want to clip their wings, cause I LOVE their beautiful wings, and we tried it once, but they still flew. What to do???


----------



## Bridgemoof (Aug 21, 2012)

I have chickens all over the place, including the sheep pen. They roost above the sheep, which I am NOT happy about, because of course they poop on my woolies :-(

But, I have also seen the chickens sitting on the sheep's back picking the hay and bugs and stuff off of the sheep, so that's good! They do scratch around a lot and kind of make a mess of the hay. I'm not sure if it is helping to break down the manure. I don't see any issues with parasites. 

I can't envision your current fencing situation, so I can't help there. Overall, having them together is fun to watch. Good luck with your chickies!


----------



## BrownSheep (Aug 21, 2012)

I have chicken all over aswell. If anything I'm more concerned for the chickens. My sheep take no prisoners when they walk around.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Aug 21, 2012)

When you clip wings, you only clip one wing so it throws them off balance.  Other than clipping wings and adding to your fence, there really isn't much else to do.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Aug 21, 2012)

My chickens had free roam of the goat pen until they started flying over. Any chicken that flew over went to chicken jail. It started with 2 and now I have all 7 in the coop. (well I cant seem to be able to get the icelandic pullet back in the coop so I guess its 6.) I think I'll use the goat pen for the youngsters and anyone who doesn't like to excape. I have too many preditors here to clip wings and if they do get out a few will go roost wayy up in the trees. I agree on clipping only 1 wing though.   I've noticed the more you keep them cofined the less they want to excape. If you go from a brooder to a grow out pen to a coop and then let them out into the larger pen on occasion they dont want to go too far. If you give them more freedom as chicks then they like to venture further and further out as adults.


----------



## Sheepshape (Oct 19, 2012)

I have 45 chickens and they are everywhere in the sheep shed and the fields which they graze. I've never had a problem....both can move pretty fast when they want to. 

I'm not aware of any parasite (and I'm waiting for someone to tell me!) which passes between the two. Both species get roundworms, but they are species specific etc.


----------



## Sheepshape (Oct 19, 2012)

I have 45 chickens and they are everywhere in the sheep shed and the fields which they graze. I've never had a problem....both can move pretty fast when they want to. 

I'm not aware of any parasite (and I'm waiting for someone to tell me!) which passes between the two. Both species get roundworms, but they are species specific etc.


----------



## lovinglife (Oct 19, 2012)

We always do a wing clip, only we will clip both sides, and I am sure far shorter than most do.  We have never had a problem with this, and it does work, just a pain to catch clip and release.


----------



## Four Winds Ranch (Oct 19, 2012)

I, as well, let my 50ish chickens free roam! They are in and out of the calf pens, sheep pens, and yes I will admit, even on my front porch at times! They don't seem to bother my garden too much. In the spring during planting and until the garden plants are fair size, I keep the chickens penned up in their run. The run fence is about 9 feet tall and it has no roof. Anyone who escapes, I catch, clip the wings (about an inch of feathers along the wings/both wings) and put them back in the run. Also, my chickens have never wandered too far away! They seem to have an invisible barrier.
I have never had a problem with parasites going from one animal to the other because bird parasites are totally different than other livestock parasites. The bird bugs and worms cannot live on people or other animals. (Unless there has been some new study that I have yet to see)!


----------



## Sheepshape (Oct 19, 2012)

This is pretty gross, but absolutely true. I found an unfortunate lamb with bad fly strike in the summer....thousands of maggots. We took the poor animal into the shed and hosed, iodine, cleaned etc, until there were maggots everywhereAlong comes one rooster and calls over the hens to join him in the 'feast' he had just found.

The chickens seemed fine after their 'high protein meal' and the lamb went on to make a full recovery.


----------



## Alice Acres (Oct 19, 2012)

My sheep and free range chickens co-mingle. No problems from either camp. 
Less fly problems too, as the chickens go through the bedding of the sheep's area in the barn quite thoroughly.


----------



## Cornish Heritage (Oct 19, 2012)

> From what I understand, it is actually quite beneficial to have diversity of species intermingle.


Very beneficial. Our chickens keep the bugs on the farm WAY down. They clean up chiggers, ticks etc. In fact we moved here we had a horrible problem with lice on the pigs - the chickens have since solved that problem  Yes they lay everywhere so it is a kind of treasure hunt each day but the benefits way outweigh the disadvantages.

NOW we did have a problem with the garden in that I could not plant seeds in the ground as the chickens would dig them up. Had to grow the seeds in pots first & then replant them. This winter we are hoping to put HI-Tensile Woven wire around our garden area - not sure if it will stop the chickens or not but hoping so. At least it will keep the kids out as they can be more destructive than the animals, pulling up fresh young onions etc!

Liz


----------



## EllieMay (Oct 19, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> NOW we did have a problem with the garden in that I could not plant seeds in the ground as the chickens would dig them up. Had to grow the seeds in pots first & then replant them. This winter we are hoping to put HI-Tensile Woven wire around our garden area - not sure if it will stop the chickens or not but hoping so. At least it will keep the kids out as they can be more destructive than the animals, pulling up fresh young onions etc!  Liz


We also had to keep the chickens out of the vegetable garden.
We set aside a 50x70' area for our veggies and put electric netting around it. 
The netting not only kept the chickens out, it also kept out the rabbits and deer and any other critter that dreamed of a smorgasboard salad bar.


----------



## Alice Acres (Oct 19, 2012)

We need to do the same (fence of some sort around our veggies) for our chickens. That is really the only negative thing about them being free range that I have. 
I'm worried that ours will just fly over (and hubby's argument why he didn't fence it last year...again.)
Mine can easily clear the 4 foot livestock fencing. :/ 
And they also roost every night up in the rafters of our barn. I hate to start trimming wing feathers, as we don't lose any to predators the way they are now. ahhh, the dilemmas!


----------



## EllieMay (Oct 20, 2012)

Mine will fly over some fences, too; but for some reason they will not fly over the electric netting surrounding the garden.
I've only had a guinea get trapped inside the garden once the whole year and I had to chase it out.


----------



## Alice Acres (Oct 20, 2012)

EllieMay said:
			
		

> Mine will fly over some fences, too; but for some reason they will not fly over the electric netting surrounding the garden.
> I've only had a guinea get trapped inside the garden once the whole year and I had to chase it out.


How tall is your netting, and what did you put it up with for posts?


----------



## heatherlynnky (Oct 20, 2012)

The flimsy bird netting. Yea mine got caught in it trying to fly over. Ripped the fencing all up. Chicken was fine. Money down the drain.  Clipping wings was pretty pointless too. Tried moving everything away from the fences and making taller fences. They still got over.  I gave up.

Mine are forever in with the cows and goats.  As long as i can keep them out of the cars we are doing good. Even my mom gave up on keeping them out of her planting areas. We no longer have tick issues. Not one misquito bite this year either.  Actually almost no bug bites which where we are from seems like a miracle.  They do have their place in the big picture but I agree its annoying they won't stay where they should. Its the drawback of free ranging. They tend to go where they want and we just put up with it but despite the risks and annoyance it does make for a happier bird. If they keep bugs down in the sheep pens then thats a plus too.


----------



## EllieMay (Oct 21, 2012)

Alice Acres said:
			
		

> EllieMay said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought the netting from Premier1.
I bought two sizes; one is taller than the other.
I ended up returning the shorter netting and exchanging it for the taller one since I saw a rabbit jump over it.
The netting comes with the posts (it's all attached).
All you do is roll it out where you want it to go.
We don't have electricity there, so we bought a solar charger for the fence.

http://www.premier1supplies.com/detail.php?prod_id=20226 






*
Here's a pic of my mom stepping over the shorter netting.*


----------



## Southdown (Oct 22, 2012)

Not the greatest picture, but showing chickens, cats, and sheep together.  I think it's great and fun when they all intermingle.  They seem to entertain each other too.


----------



## Kellykidz (Oct 22, 2012)

Southdown said:
			
		

> http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/5960_100_1497.jpg
> 
> Not the greatest picture, but showing chickens, cats, and sheep together.  I think it's great and fun when they all intermingle.  They seem to entertain each other too.


Our cats enjoy stalking the sheep.


----------



## Cornish Heritage (Oct 22, 2012)

> They do have their place in the big picture


They sure do. Chickens can clean up cow patties faster than anything else! It is great! They also eat any grain expelled by the pigs. NOW if we could just find a critter who likes to clean up chicken poop we would be good 

Liz


----------



## Alice Acres (Oct 22, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> > They do have their place in the big picture
> 
> 
> They sure do. Chickens can clean up cow patties faster than anything else! It is great! They also eat any grain expelled by the pigs. NOW if we could just find a critter who likes to clean up chicken poop we would be good
> ...


Invite a neighbor's "town dog" out - they love eating any kind of farm Poop! 

That short netting - that would never even slow my chickens down 
One of my neighbors got some 5 foot netting fence to try and keep the deer out of their garden (they live on a deer highway, I swear). Didn't stop the deer, so maybe I can buy it cheap from them??


----------



## Sheepshape (Oct 23, 2012)

I have La Fleche chickens amongst my flock and they happily roost in tall trees, so they laugh at fences. (Mine are allowed to go anywhere). My Brahmas are just the opposite....they won't try to fly over a blade of grass due to their weight.

Just thought I'd add a pic. here of some of my sheep with  hen and chicks


----------



## Southdown (Oct 25, 2012)

Cute.  
(I love my brahmas.)


----------



## meadow1view (Oct 25, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> > They do have their place in the big picture
> 
> 
> They sure do. Chickens can clean up cow patties faster than anything else! It is great! They also eat any grain expelled by the pigs. NOW if we could just find a critter who likes to clean up chicken poop we would be good
> ...


It's the same critter that cleans up any waste product - microbes.  They are the true work horses of any successful farming operation.  Our utmost concern in farming Holistically is really not about managing animals...... it is about managing the microbes.  When they flourish so will your soil, then your grass/vegetation, then your animals, and then you.  Never forget the "little man".


----------



## Fiberfling (Oct 31, 2012)

shy sheep said:
			
		

> Ok. I know there aren't huge problems with my chickens in the sheep pen, but I don't want the chickens giving my sheep worms, and I also don't want the extra poop to pick up. Plus, its just plain annoying. They should be in their own spot. And speaking of that, my chickens keep flying over the fence of their garden area, and they aren't supposed to do that. What should I do! The chickens keep going farther away every time, and soon they're going to go too ar and get into trouble! I'm worried. What should I do?? Any ideas?
> -shy sheep


I have been raising chickens and sheep for over 30 years. I don't have a problems with them being together unless it is dead of winter and the sheep don't have coats on. The chickens prefer roosting on their backs for warmth instead of being under a heat lamp. Then they crap on the fleece. It takes a while for it to disintegrate.  I raise my sheep for their wool. I have that wool spun into yarn every year so I try to keep them jacketed to keep the fleece clean. Otherwise, mixed livestock are no problem unless I don't want to breed or someone is dangerous.  I also do not pick up poop. I have a composted floor which keeps the barn warmer in the winter, which I prefer.  Raising livestock is not like keeping a house in order.


----------



## Sheepshape (Oct 31, 2012)

Not just two, but four species together...


----------



## BrownSheep (Oct 31, 2012)

Sheepscape can I come live with you? SO much GREEN!


----------



## Cornish Heritage (Oct 31, 2012)

Great pic Sheepshape


----------



## Alice Acres (Oct 31, 2012)

BrownSheep said:
			
		

> Sheepscape can I come live with you? SO much GREEN!


I know - green overload. After our drought and no pasture since June...I was totally sucked into all that beautiful GREEN.


----------



## Sheepshape (Nov 1, 2012)

Thank you....yes we are blessed with green pretty much always. 

However....our climate is cold , though not cold on comparative standards,it is that kind of cold thatchills to the bone as it is so damp. The mud is also deep and sticky!

Still, the scenery is lovely. The Brecon Beacons can't be seen on the pic. due to cloud and mist, but are visible behind our neighbour's house when clearer.


----------



## Southdown (Nov 3, 2012)

Cool picture.  I noticed the lovely dark brahma rooster.


----------



## Cornish Heritage (Nov 6, 2012)

> The Brecon Beacons can't be seen on the pic. due to cloud and mist,


Oh you are in Wales? I know exactly what you mean by the damp having lived in England for the first 29 years of our lives! It really struck us the first time we went back after being over here - that damp really goes through you and the green over there is SO different from here which is really weird as it is still grass but the green over there is somehow more vivid. 

Liz


----------



## Sheepshape (Nov 7, 2012)

Yes, Liz....Wales...land of 3 million people and nearly 12 million sheep...so the climate clearly suits them.

The cold/damp combination is bone chilling at times. The local hill sheep seem totally unaffected and it is usual to find 'lumps' across a field in the newly fallen snow which turns out to be slumbering sheep. We have Beulah Speckled Face who regularly do this....their fleece is super-thick and profuse. The few Blue Faced Leicesters we also keep will be huddled under trees or in a little shack which we have.

I would prefer a bit more sun and a little less water though!


----------



## bluebirdsnfur (Nov 7, 2012)

Sheepshape said:
			
		

> Not just two, but four species together...
> 
> https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hbXcfNpSlQk/UJFLfnpIGMI/AAAAAAAAB78/hLM3OZ2gor8/s912/IMG_7260.jpg


Beautiful Sheepshape! Love all your critters! Always thought Wales would be a beauitiful country to visit!

We have four small banty hens in our back yard who have never tried to fly over the fence into the sheep yard. And the fence is only 3' tall. . I certainly wouldn't mind if they scratched thru some of the sheep poo, lol!


----------



## Cornish Heritage (Nov 7, 2012)

> Yes, Liz....Wales...land of 3 million people and nearly 12 million sheep...so the climate clearly suits them.


I was raised on a farm on the Devon/Cornwall border on the Tamar River. I can remember going out with Dad after a really bad snowstorm as the sheep were missing. We were walking on top of the snow & poking down through it with sticks until we finally poked a sheep. Then we had to start digging. They were all alive but completely buried!

My family still lives over here & my brother will often tell me he has the fire on in the summer when it is supposed to be warm. BUT sheep do so well over there as your grass grows nearly all year round so there is an advantage to all that damp. 

Amazingly enough many many Americans have never eaten lamb - it is not a popular meat over here. We couldn't believe it when we moved over here first. Couldn't buy it! It is more popular in Jewish areas but very rare you see it in the grocery stores.

Liz


----------



## bonbean01 (Nov 7, 2012)

So true Liz...on a rare occasion lamb is sold in specialty shops and over $20.00 a pound...yikes!  In Canada we had New Zealand lamb in most every grocery store...but not here in the States.  When I went to visit my daughter in Switzerland, most grocery stores did sell lamb.  Not sure why it isn't sold in grocery stores here.  Lambs sell for a high price here for Jewish and Muslim holidays around Easter time.  A lamb born in January will sell for at least $130.00 and more depending on size (live) at that holiday time.  Not sure about wool breeds, but for hair/meat sheep...they are considered lambs up to one year old and by then they are a pretty good weight.


----------



## Cornish Heritage (Nov 7, 2012)

> Not sure about wool breeds, but for hair/meat sheep...they are considered lambs up to one year old and by then they are a pretty good weight.


I think that goes for ALL breeds. Anything under a year old is consider a lamb, older than a year and it is mutton. 

Liz


----------



## meadow1view (Nov 7, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> > Not sure about wool breeds, but for hair/meat sheep...they are considered lambs up to one year old and by then they are a pretty good weight.
> 
> 
> I think that goes for ALL breeds. Anything under a year old is consider a lamb, older than a year and it is mutton.
> ...


Just some added info....when sheep are at the slaughter house, most do not carry their 'birth certificate' to prove they are of legal age.  So, what is a slaughter house/butcher to do?  Dilemma solved---They usually check the teeth of the animal to gauge the age.  

A lamb/kid will not have it's first adult tooth(which is a pair) until about the age of 12-18 months (usually closer to the 18 mark than the 12).  

Point being...'lamb/kid' can be used until the animal has it's first adult 'tooth' which can have a margin of error of up to 6 months. (If the true meaning of lamb/kid is up to 12 months and no older)


----------



## bonbean01 (Nov 7, 2012)

True...and our processor also told us that there is a bone in the chest that does not grow until they are a year old, so they can always tell when they butcher if it is lamb or mutton.

Interesting thing about hair sheep...we have a friend who finds our lamb too mild and can tell they are grass fed, something we prided ourselves in...solid meat with less fat...we had a barren three year old ewe (that I am sorry I didn't keep just because I miss her everyday) that he bought and had processed.  Said he could not tell the difference in her meat than a lamb.  I thought the meat would be a stronger flavour.  I think he needs to buy mutton from a wool sheep...but not any for sale in our area.


----------



## Cornish Heritage (Nov 7, 2012)

> Said he could not tell the difference in her meat than a lamb.


We ate a fully intact 2 year old, sexually active St Croix ram & you would not have known he was a ram. I LOVE the mild flavor of the St Croix. I think that is probably why many Americans do not like the taste of lamb as most of what they have had is stronger and/or grain fed. In fact some customers have told us that. I don't think we ever gave grain to a sheep in England - it just lived on grass & it does make a difference. 

Thanks for the teeth & bone facts - I did not know that.

Liz


----------



## RemudaOne (Nov 8, 2012)

At the Hamilton sale barn (I thought it was true for all sale barns here), you will be docked if the lambs are over seventy pounds. Our Dorpers generally reach that at 60-90 days. The market demand is for lambs 70 and under here.


----------



## meadow1view (Nov 8, 2012)

bonbean01 said:
			
		

> True...and our processor also told us that there is a bone in the chest that does not grow until they are a year old, so they can always tell when they butcher if it is lamb or mutton.
> 
> Interesting thing about hair sheep...we have a friend who finds our lamb too mild and can tell they are grass fed, something we prided ourselves in...solid meat with less fat...we had a barren three year old ewe (that I am sorry I didn't keep just because I miss her everyday) that he bought and had processed.  Said he could not tell the difference in her meat than a lamb.  I thought the meat would be a stronger flavour.  I think he needs to buy mutton from a wool sheep...but not any for sale in our area.


I 'googled' about the bone in chest and found nothing to support this claim.  I could understand if the processor was referring to the size of the bone --- but the bone itself would have to be there from birth.  If you have link information about this bone/size please post it for I could find nothing.



> The market demand is for lambs 70 and under here.


I think you need to add, 'depending on time of year' to your quote above.  Each culture requires a different size/weight at different times of the year.  Then again, there are some that don't follow any 'rule' and just want the biggest sizeweight for the money paid.


----------



## bonbean01 (Nov 8, 2012)

http://www.sheep101.info/201/lambmarketing.html

They call it a spool joint...our processor just said a bone in the chest...that's all I know :/

Remuda...that is the same higher price market here too...lambs 70 lbs or under.


----------



## RemudaOne (Nov 8, 2012)

"I think you need to add, 'depending on time of year' to your quote above.  Each culture requires a different size/weight at different times of the year.  Then again, there are some that don't follow any 'rule' and just want the biggest sizeweight for the money paid."



The demand for small may vary, but the docking for high weight is year round at the sale. I haven't sold off of the farm for butcher, just breeders. If they don't sell off of the farm or if they are inferior and something I wouldn't offer for sale as a breeder, they go to market.


----------



## meadow1view (Nov 8, 2012)

bonbean01 said:
			
		

> http://www.sheep101.info/201/lambmarketing.html
> 
> They call it a spool joint...our processor just said a bone in the chest...that's all I know :/
> 
> Remuda...that is the same higher price market here too...lambs 70 lbs or under.


Before I began 'parroting' the claim made by your processor I wanted verification --- thank you for the link.  Now, I understand why I couldn't find any info on this 'bone' in the 'chest'.


----------

