# Splitting up my 7 acres



## mystang89 (Nov 4, 2016)

As the title says, this is about splitting up my 7 acres so that I have the best system for what I'm doing.  As you probably know from http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/new-to-shepherding.34738/ I'm trying to get ready for raising milk sheep.  As per some reading on here and about 7000 other comments, it'll be best if I rotate the sheep through some fenced off areas.  I'm having a hard time figuring out how to set this up with what I want to do so I decided to make a picture of it posted below.  

  I'd like to have a goat with the sheep. One goat. no more.  We would like to have 2 horses as well if possible on what we have.  Once I get all that down to a routine I'd like to try my hand at baco...I mean pigs.  Not many, just Mr and Mrs Pig.  What they produce will be culled.  I say all this so you know exactly where I'm wanting to go with all this eventually.  Eventually being key word so please don't think that I am doing all this within the next near or even 3.

  For fencing I will probably be using  4' tall http://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/Iow...Mugm4EvA6VDgRAwJU-ZDm_xukwLKpFnEvLBoCcAnw_wcB and have electric wire running on top and at knee height.

  How can I split this up for my sheep which I will be getting first?  I'm thinking about having to split my nursing ewes, weening lambs, and rams so that's why I'm posting this.  

  In the picture each of those squares is 1 acre but the shape isn't set in stone so let me know what you think and how you'd do this if it was yours.


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## Bruce (Nov 4, 2016)

No personal experience but I think you want to do something that creates an alley with pastures on either side. Otherwise it will be a PITA to get the animals out to the gray and the dark blue pastures. Unless of course you have some great herding dogs.

How many sheepies? What happens if you run the light blue line parallel to the barn up to where the gray and dark blue pastures meet the yellow one and put the alley on that line? That would make the light blue one and the yellow one somewhat smaller but would give you an additional pasture. You can always move the animals a day or 3 earlier than you would if they had a full acre. And since you are planning to have 3 groups, you likely don't need as much space in a single pasture, especially for the rams since you won't have many of them.


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## mystang89 (Nov 4, 2016)

Bruce said:


> No personal experience but I think you want to do something that creates an alley with pastures on either side. Otherwise it will be a PITA to get the animals out to the gray and the dark blue pastures. Unless of course you have some great herding dogs.
> 
> How many sheepies? What happens if you run the light blue line parallel to the barn up to where the gray and dark blue pastures meet the yellow one and put the alley on that line? That would make the light blue one and the yellow one somewhat smaller but would give you an additional pasture. You can always move the animals a day or 3 earlier than you would if they had a full acre. And since you are planning to have 3 groups, you likely don't need as much space in a single pasture, especially for the rams since you won't have many of them.



Great suggestion!  I hadn't thought about how difficult that was going to be so I'm very glad you mentioned that.

I went back to the drawing board again based on your suggestion and came up with another one.  The blue lines going through there are the natural springs running through the property.

I was going to try to start out with 5 sheep at first and see how that went.  Two rams; 3 ewes.


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## Baymule (Nov 4, 2016)

Where is your barn or shelter for your sheep?


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## Baymule (Nov 4, 2016)

I wouldn't use the field fence. A horse can hang it's hoof in it and rip a big hole in it. The holes are big enough for a small dog to get through, and your sheep/goat can get their heads through it. Goat wire has holes that are only 4" square.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/goat-fence-48-in-x-330-ft

The driveway ends at what looks to be the garage/carport and house. The structure right above that, is that a barn and will it be used for the sheep shelter?

I think cutting the pastures down to a half acre would give you more rotation to let the pasture rest. I like the second layout. Gates. Gates to the alley and gates from pasture to pasture. If you want to move them from one pasture to another, open the gate and call them. If you want to move them back to the barn for the night, open the alley gate and call them. Mine come running to me like dogs.


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## mystang89 (Nov 4, 2016)

The barn is the building beside the .60 acres. 

I read that welded wire had a tendency to break when it was stretched.  With the link that I had posted I wasn't sure how big the holes were in it.  Did you notice that they were large?  I wish the info was a bit clearer for me ;/


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## Baymule (Nov 4, 2016)

I like the way you have it divided. Walk the property. Walk every imaginary fenceline and "open" the gates. Picture the movement of livestock and make mental notes. Get fencing string and "build" the pastures with T-posts and the string. If you can get a visual, it makes more sense to you and you can see if it will work the way you want it to.

Make sure each pasture has shade. Dogs and sheep need the shade in the hot part of the day.


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## Latestarter (Nov 5, 2016)

You've already made adjustments as recommended by Babs (Edit to say it was Bruce, not Babs... sorry Bruce)... I would make a further adjustment and make an open area (shrinking down the .6 area) to leave a nice wide open area around the barn. The area open to the barn on the right should be about the same as the open area on the left & above it. You'll need maneuver room for tractors and trailers and moving hay bales and such around the barn. It looks like it would be a really tight fit between the garage and barn for machinery...  You could then use the smaller pasture as the full time residence for the ram and a wether for companionship. Just build a small run-in shelter for them right in the pasture and they won't need to come/go from the barn. You can treat that as a year round dry lot for the "boys". You can then either bring the ewes for conjugal visits to his place, or take him out and add him in with the ewes in their pasture when the time comes.

Another thing is you'll need to connect the fencing to the barn with (large!) gates at some point to prevent the animals from just walking out and down the driveway when you release them from the barn/pasture(s).

You want to make sure that you leave the "walking paths" between pastures wide enough that you can easily get your tractor/lawn mower throughout the property. You will still need to do pasture maintenance and you want to make sure the equipment can get to and into/out of the pastures without tearing up fencing. If you do it right, the "walking" path to the other pastures and the area around the barn itself can actually be used (with the actual pasture gates closed) as a short term pasture all on its own. <-- I hope that made sense...


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## farmerjan (Nov 5, 2016)

First thing I would do is fence the perimeter. With whatever kind of fence you choose.  Baymule is right, try to lay out or somehow walk and try out different spots for the gates etc. Then, invest in a couple of rolls of electric netting and see how well your proposed fencing lines will work with the animals actually in them. You can put it up to mimic the fence around each "acre pasture" and see where you find it easiest to have "gates" to be able to move the animals.  If you are only thinking 5 sheep, then 1/2 acre pastures will give you alot more flexibility; that said you can use the electric netting to split up a one acre field for rotational purposes.  Gates should be directly across from each other  with the laneway between, to be able to move animals "across the road".  Also, if the pastures have permanent fences then gates between the connecting pastures would be helpful.  12 ft gates minimum to move equipment in and out, even 16 ft or 2 8ft gates.
As soon as you get a permanent crossfence up you will say oh it should have been 20 ft this way or something so try it out with moveable/portable fencing.
One question, if you are only planning to have  3 ewes to start, why 2 rams?  Will it be hard to find or replace a ram if something happens to him?  Ratio of 1 ram to 15-25 ewes to get them bred in a 30-45 day period so 2 will be overkill unless there is a reason, genetics, etc....Get an extra ewe and then invest in a 2nd ram 2 years later....


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## Baymule (Nov 5, 2016)

With equipment and gates, you need swing room, or turning room.


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## promiseacres (Nov 5, 2016)

Divide the area by the barn into dry lots. I have 5 drylots on less than an 1/2 acre. It has better fencing they stay there in winter and during night otherwise. For sheep a catch area to handle them is a must! You don't know how fast they can be until you're chasing them around a smaller pen that just isn't small enough. For grazing here in indiana we can estimate 1000 pounds of animal per acre. That's a place to start depending your area. I would only fence off 3 acres to start, for the amount of critters I would do 1/3 -1/2 acre areas.  but still plan on needing to mow taller parts unless you get more critters if you (don't be surprised you probably will have 20 sheep very quickly) . Keep the remaining acres as a nice hay field, if you can find someone to do it on shares unless again you have more animals.


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## mystang89 (Nov 5, 2016)

Baymule said:


> I like the way you have it divided. Walk the property. Walk every imaginary fenceline and "open" the gates. Picture the movement of livestock and make mental notes. Get fencing string and "build" the pastures with T-posts and the string. If you can get a visual, it makes more sense to you and you can see if it will work the way you want it to.
> 
> Make sure each pasture has shade. Dogs and sheep need the shade in the hot part of the day.



Definitely a good idea to walk it before I build anything there.  Kind of a wierd question but how I do walk out 1 acre?  It's easy to do it on the computer since it measures for you but I'm not sure how to do that in reality.



Latestarter said:


> You've already made adjustments as recommended by Babs (Edit to say it was Bruce, not Babs... sorry Bruce)... I would make a further adjustment and make an open area (shrinking down the .6 area) to leave a nice wide open area around the barn. The area open to the barn on the right should be about the same as the open area on the left & above it. You'll need maneuver room for tractors and trailers and moving hay bales and such around the barn. It looks like it would be a really tight fit between the garage and barn for machinery...  You could then use the smaller pasture as the full time residence for the ram and a wether for companionship. Just build a small run-in shelter for them right in the pasture and they won't need to come/go from the barn. You can treat that as a year round dry lot for the "boys". You can then either bring the ewes for conjugal visits to his place, or take him out and add him in with the ewes in their pasture when the time comes.
> 
> Another thing is you'll need to connect the fencing to the barn with (large!) gates at some point to prevent the animals from just walking out and down the driveway when you release them from the barn/pasture(s).
> 
> You want to make sure that you leave the "walking paths" between pastures wide enough that you can easily get your tractor/lawn mower throughout the property. You will still need to do pasture maintenance and you want to make sure the equipment can get to and into/out of the pastures without tearing up fencing. If you do it right, the "walking" path to the other pastures and the area around the barn itself can actually be used (with the actual pasture gates closed) as a short term pasture all on its own. <-- I hope that made sense...



I posted an updated picture to show the open area.  I think it's probably a good idea to have a little play room if I need it.  The area between the garage and the barn is wide enough for a tractor as they have used that area plenty for it and there is already a gate put up but I'll need to rearrange the existing gate next to the barn because it connects right up to the barn



farmerjan said:


> One question, if you are only planning to have 3 ewes to start, why 2 rams? Will it be hard to find or replace a ram if something happens to him? Ratio of 1 ram to 15-25 ewes to get them bred in a 30-45 day period so 2 will be overkill unless there is a reason, genetics, etc....Get an extra ewe and then invest in a 2nd ram 2 years later....



I was wanting 2 rams in order to keep a separate blood line.  Also if its anything like rabbits then if I only had 1 ram something would happen to that and I would be left with none so its an insurance policy of sorts as well.



Baymule said:


> With equipment and gates, you need swing room, or turning room.



That's a good point.  I was going to ask how wide should the walking area be between the lots for moving the sheep back to the barn but I suppose if its big enough for a tractor to make it through then its big enough for the sheep.



promiseacres said:


> Divide the area by the barn into dry lots. I have 5 drylots on less than an 1/2 acre. It has better fencing they stay there in winter and during night otherwise. For sheep a catch area to handle them is a must! You don't know how fast they can be until you're chasing them around a smaller pen that just isn't small enough. For grazing here in indiana we can estimate 1000 pounds of animal per acre. That's a place to start depending your area. I would only fence off 3 acres to start, for the amount of critters I would do 1/3 -1/2 acre areas.  but still plan on needing to mow taller parts unless you get more critters if you (don't be surprised you probably will have 20 sheep very quickly) . Keep the remaining acres as a nice hay field, if you can find someone to do it on shares unless again you have more animals.



I think I'll probably make them 1 acre lots, except for that .5acre for 2 reasons.  One is because I probably won't want to redo the fencing again if I begin to expand the operation and get a few more sheep which might require more room..  Secondly is because I don't think I will have the money for all that extra fencing required for multiple lots.

Edit: Forgot to load image.


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## farmerjan (Nov 5, 2016)

OKAY,   in reality, walking out an acre....an acre by definition is 43,560 sq feet.  The original english measurement was 66 x660 feet.  So how wide is the property, and how long from back fence to front....You need a rectangle that is 66 ft  x 660 feet.  If it is wider then it will be shorter.  If it is perfectly square, it will be 208 feet 9 inches on each side.  So you will have to first know the distance across the end where you have the two lots side by side.  I am thinking maybe that is actually the front of the property as it looks like the driveway goes out to the road??? Minus the laneway down the middle of at least 12 feet wide you need the property to be132 feet for the 2 lots plus 12 feet to the driveway  minimum of 144 feet if you are going to make it a perfect measured acre.   Since I don't have the math skills in my head anymore to figure it, you can  figure length  times width gives you area... total 43560 sq feet in whatever shape you have.  
100 ft x 435.6 feet =1 acre   80 ft x 544.5 =43560sq ft= 1 acre
Get out a tape measure or look at the plat for your property and at least get the distance along the road and then divide in half, less 12 ft for the lane between ( or however wide you are going to make it) and then take that number and figure your other side, and you can then walk it...


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## Bruce (Nov 6, 2016)

1 acre give or take @mystang89 

You can use the Google area calculator 
https://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm

to get a decent approximation. If there are "landmarks" that are visible you can stick T-posts or stepins at the approximate corners. You can also use the Google "measure distance" feature on the regular map so if you can find even a couple of points, you can get approximate measurements from there. If you don't have one, get a 330' tape reel. You don't want to measure out that much distance with a 25' tape. 

I've not done breeding animals but I can't imagine you really want to start with 2 intact rams for 3 ewes. What are you going to do when the ewes are in season and the rams are both "over excited"? If something does happen to the one, replace him. Sheep are pretty hearty, don't know about rabbits. Also, I don't know why you would need to have a separate bloodline this early in the game. Unless you happen to find 2 EXCELLENT rams, why not get one good one first and see how things go. Otherwise you are feeding 2 rams year round (pasture in the summer, hay through the winter) and won't have any need for both the first time around on the 3 ewes at breeding time.


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## mystang89 (Nov 6, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> OKAY,   in reality, walking out an acre....an acre by definition is 43,560 sq feet.  The original english measurement was 66 x660 feet.  So how wide is the property, and how long from back fence to front....You need a rectangle that is 66 ft  x 660 feet.  If it is wider then it will be shorter.  If it is perfectly square, it will be 208 feet 9 inches on each side.  So you will have to first know the distance across the end where you have the two lots side by side.  I am thinking maybe that is actually the front of the property as it looks like the driveway goes out to the road??? Minus the laneway down the middle of at least 12 feet wide you need the property to be132 feet for the 2 lots plus 12 feet to the driveway  minimum of 144 feet if you are going to make it a perfect measured acre.   Since I don't have the math skills in my head anymore to figure it, you can  figure length  times width gives you area... total 43560 sq feet in whatever shape you have.
> 100 ft x 435.6 feet =1 acre   80 ft x 544.5 =43560sq ft= 1 acre
> Get out a tape measure or look at the plat for your property and at least get the distance along the road and then divide in half, less 12 ft for the lane between ( or however wide you are going to make it) and then take that number and figure your other side, and you can then walk it...



If i could like this twice i would lol. 



Bruce said:


> 1 acre give or take @mystang89
> 
> You can use the Google area calculator
> https://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-area-calculator-tool.htm
> ...



Thanks Bruce ! It sounds like having two rams would be a bit of an overkill from reading yours and others posts so i think I'll start with 1 ram and 2 or 3 ewes, probably 3 depending on money.


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## Baymule (Nov 6, 2016)

Most people change rams every 2-3 years to keep their flock from becoming inbred. My ram is so calm, I just hope he stays that way! He comes to me, stands patiently, for me to scratch under his chin. I keep an eye on him, but so far, he hasn't shown any "ram" behavior. If he stays like this, it sure will be hard to sell him to get another ram.


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## greybeard (Nov 6, 2016)

question..
What is the water source for the one acre plot on the upper right--the one most distant from the barn?


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## mystang89 (Nov 6, 2016)

The water source for the gray plot (furthest north) will have to be trough trough.  I will need to check throughout the next few months and even while I have sheep to see if that little corner of the dark blue plot has a constant source of water in it.  If not then it will also need a water trough.


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## farmerjan (Nov 6, 2016)

Once you get an idea of where the fences will run, do some serious thinking about running a water line  to the 2 furthest "lots".  If the stream/creek ever dries up or anything happens you will need a water source.  I would run one line, put in a frost proof spicket on one side of the laneway to supply the 2 back lots, and another frost proof spicket  halfway down the laneway to supply the other 2 lots.  You can always run a hose across the lane to the opposite lot.  Carrying water gets old real quick, and the older you get the harder it gets.  You are talking about the possibility of a horse....the amount of water it will drink will make the sheeps' consumption of water look like a teacup full.  I am not trying to "spend" you into bankruptcy....If you are going to put a water line in, do it all at once, and put in enough frost proof hydrants so that you don't have to run alot of hoses.  They will be there forever and you will be eternally thankful when you have water available closeby.
 Also, you don't need the lane to go all the way to the end of the property unless you want to be able to access the perimeter fence outside of the acre lots.  Run the lane to the 2 furthest lots and end it there with  2 gates so they can go in one lot or the other. ( I think that you would even get better utilization from having 3 lots across the end of 3/4 ac m/l) .  The water hydrant could be right at fence at the two fields so a trough could be in each with a short hose to the spicket and a float on the trough.


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## Bruce (Nov 6, 2016)

I don't recall where you live @mystang89 , maybe you could put it in your profile. I'm assuming somewhere it freezes since frost proof spigots were mentioned.

Regarding the water: I for sure wouldn't want to carry water that far. How is the rock/ledge supply on your land? If not bad, rent a 4' trencher and run that water line to those frost free spigots. And drop underground 12/3 wire in conduit in the trench at the same time. You'll need stock tank heaters out there.


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## mystang89 (Nov 6, 2016)

Bruce said:


> I don't recall where you live @mystang89 , maybe you could put it in your profile. I'm assuming somewhere it freezes since frost proof spigots were mentioned.
> 
> Regarding the water: I for sure wouldn't want to carry water that far. How is the rock/ledge supply on your land? If not bad, rent a 4' trencher and run that water line to those frost free spigots. And drop underground 12/3 wire in conduit in the trench at the same time. You'll need stock tank heaters out there.



Updated the profile.  I live in Southern IN.  There is a stretch of land running horizontal with the middle spring that is rock.  I can't see being able to dig anywhere in that.  It spans about 10ft wide in some spots.  The rest of the area is nice and green though  

I can't really say I look forward to halling 5 gal bucks at a time to the troughs  :/


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## Bruce (Nov 6, 2016)

Given the scenario you plan, I expect that until you have water lines out to the pastures, you will be using a water wagon attached to a tractor (or garden tractor if that is what you have). I sure as heck wouldn't be carrying that much water that far! I'm going to have to carry water from the house down to the alpacas at the far end of the barn this winter. I'm using Cat's Pride bottles. Take the label off and they look like Jerry cans  Two of them hold more water than the heated bucket.


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## Baymule (Nov 6, 2016)

Heeeere kitty, kitty, kitty!


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## mystang89 (Nov 7, 2016)

LOL


Baymule said:


> Heeeere kitty, kitty, kitty!


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## Robert Shon (Dec 30, 2016)

I wish I had seen this site two years ago before I fenced in our reclaimed acres.  I've corrected most of my mistakes now but could have saved some $$$ if I had only known !
 I originally did most of my gates as 10' & didn't give myself access from what turned out to be a critical entry point.  That's now been corrected with 16' gates so moving 1000 lb bales around in the mud & snow isn't a problem any longer.  I use my 12' wide 400' long connecting path as a run for my young calves during the summer when it's got a nice cover of clover / timothy on it.  It's gated on both ends & has access between four different pastures along it length. Now that the gates are either 12 or 16 ft the tractor & equipment move very smoothly between all areas. Hind sight is a great thing !!!


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## Baymule (Dec 30, 2016)

@Robert Shon you aren't the only that learned by mistake. We fenced in a previous piece of property--all wrong. This time, a lot of thought and planning went into it. Isn't it great to have a forum like this that we can all learn from?


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## mystang89 (Dec 31, 2016)

I haven't been able to buy the Fencing yet due to some unexpected expenses with the house (it's about as insulated as a barn built in the 1800s) but hopefully in the spring the tax return will be good to me. Yes it is very good to have a site like this especially for new people like myself.


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 2016)

You can see through the boards on the walls and feel the wind blow up through the floor? 

Given my experience fencing in November, spring would be a much nicer time of year to do yours anyway


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## mystang89 (Dec 31, 2016)

Bruce said:


> You can see through the boards on the walls and feel the wind blow up through the floor?
> 
> Given my experience fencing in November, spring would be a much nicer time of year to do yours anyway


Actually yes lol.  We had a home energy author come out to the house and he did a blower test on the door while using his thermal scanner and he found a place in the wall right above the fireplace of all places where there was air coming through the wall. And we have been able to feel air coming from the cellar through the floor as well LOL.  I figured we either could try to stay warm in the winter or get some fencing and put it up fencing and put it up. I voted for the warm. 

I'd  have agree with you though, I think that spring would be a much more beautiful time to put the fencing up.


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 2016)

I asked because I have an 1800's barn and it (naturally) has no insulation. And gaps in the walls and gaps in the floor the prior owner put in to make a workshop. Plenty of air coming up through the floor when there is a north wind given the foundation (where it exists) is fieldstone and not at all tight.

Don't wait TOO long into the spring. Digging post holes can warm you up pretty quickly.


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