# Kidding Pen - Building New Goat Pole House



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

Hello from Thailand,

I have a pregnant Thai/Alpine cross doe and we are currently building a raised platform wooden slat floor goat house, 10 x 12 ft.  I am wanting to section off a kidding pen for her for when her time comes.  What size would everyone suggest please?

Thanks


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Dec 7, 2015)

Most say a 5x5ft is good. I personally like a bigger space so I have plenty of room. Most goat owners will tell you, including myself, that you will end up sleeping in a kidding stall waiting for your doe to kid at least once...Its really nice to NOT be curled up in a 5x5 stall LOL

Because she is a lone goat, and you are waiting until she kids before adding another I would just make sure you can close her in the shelter when the time comes  When she looks like she is going to kid, make sure you hang the water buckets up high so you wont have the risk of a kid drowning.

I know you have a lot of children you are raising (I think its awesome!). So if you have anyone present other then yourself its nice to have an area big enough so that she doesn't feel crowded.  

Y'all will love having (goat) kids! They are so much fun!


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

Were it me, and since there's only the one girl, I'd section off an area say 4x6 or 6x6 inside to keep her in when the moment comes along. Since this will be her 3rd go-round, I would expect she's got it down pat, even if you don't... And if she's like most other goats, she'll take pride in running you ragged thinking "now's the time"  and then she'll put it off for another little while  (anywhere from 24 hours to 2 weeks!) so that you can freak out...  You'll see this as you read many of the kidding threads between now and the magical moment... 

In the interest of being a typical goat lover, you really should just put off sectioning off the area until right before she's about to pop, then go about it frantically, and never get it done in time so she has her kids before you get it completed. And come to find out that everything went just fine regardless 

Isn't this exciting?!


----------



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

LOL!   You guys are great!  I'm so glad I found this forum.

Hey - not a kid pen question, but.....the builders are about to start building the walls of the goat house (raised platform, wooden slat floors etc.)....but how high do you think I need the walls to be?  The house is 1.5 metres up off the ground already!  But, I don't want to have to almost crawl inside, hit my head etc LOL.  At the same time don't want this to end up looking like a flight tower thingy at the airport!  Suggestion?


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

wow... that is HIGH! 1.5 meters? Really? Are you in a flood zone or something? I understand houses on stilts, but that's WAY above and beyond... You could build a mother in law apartment under that!    Don't tell DH I said that... He may care for his mom... 

It really doesn't have to be more than a couple of feet... lets say 1/2, 3/4 of a meter off the ground... As long as you can reach a rake under it to clean the droppings out every so often... And it's high enough that vermin and snakes don't decide to nest under it... Then make the inside about 2 meters, so you can comfortably get in and out without hitting your head, or stooping over and becoming a hunch back while inside. 

I hope they're building you a step ladder for it so you and the goats can get in and out safely...


----------



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

Oh my goodness....this is what has already been done..... 1 m off the ground, and the walls are now going to be 1.60 m high.  Will this be ok?  I might go take a photo and post it here in a minute.


----------



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

Here's a photo of progress so far....


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

It is what it is... 1m off the ground is still better than 1.5m... 1.6 m high is better than 1m, but you're not going to be comfy inside it crawling around on hands and knees... Unless you're really, really short, you won't be able to stand up in it. Won't bother the goats though, they'll fit just fine.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

Looks like they built it so the goats could go under it for shade. Looks like from the guys standing inside it, it will be high enough to stand inside it (if you're a short East Asian anyway...)... <--not trying to slur anyone...


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

No way the goats will be able to jump high enough to get inside, especially kids, so you'll need steps or a ramp. Adults could most likely jump out, but a new kid would/could get hurt doing so.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

I think you might want to go out and climb inside it so they can make the low roof line above your head level... at least that is the most important aspect to my way of thinking... climbing in and out is a pain, but NOT being able to stand up inside would be a long term nightmare.


----------



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks Latestarter.  Yes I am intending to have a ramp built.  I'm 5'1" so hopefully it will be ok for me LOL!  I'm gonna have the guys build a dry lot around the goat house.  We do have 1 acre of forest next to us that I can take goats into to run around and browse.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

Oh, also, disregard my comment about a step ladder... tell them now we need an elevator


----------



## babsbag (Dec 7, 2015)

It will be easy to clean under     I would make the walls as high as possible; bending over is hard. I wouldn't worry about kid pen this year since she is the only one. She will be just fine in the entire shelter, but if you do build one mine are 6x6 and it works.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

Steps might prove much better than a ramp... you have tropical monsoons there and a ramp will get slippery like ice! At least steps are level so you won't have to worry as much about slipping. Also, goats like to climb AND jump... steps will be no issue for them and in fact, they'll like it like kids in a playground.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

Just make the steps a little "deeper" than for a human foot... so let's say 12-16" deep vice the standard 9" for a normal step. Another thing is steps will have a much smaller "footprint" on the land... take up less space.


----------



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

Ok...just climbed up there!  Yep....it's good enough for me to stand up in


----------



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

Wow....thanks for that advice about steps instead of a ramp!  That's exactly the kind of advice this newbie needs!  Steps it is then.  I'll continue to post photos as things move along  

Oh....just thought of this.....how wide would you suggest the steps be?


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

If you really want to get in detail, top the steps with crushed corral or very rough cement. Better grip for human feet when wet, and the coarse grains will help keep the goat hooves filed down = less trimming for you.


----------



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

Good, good...and the width of the steps?


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

Well, on step width, that depends on which side you're going to place them, as well as what type roof, roof lay, and roof design... is it a peaked roof like a typical home; with the peak running parallel to the long sides? if so, I would try for a roof overhang on a wide side of at least 30-50cm on the open side to help keep rain from blowing in and then place the steps under that overhang, maybe 1.6-1.75m wide. If it's a lean to type roof, single pitch high front to low rear running along the long direction, I'd do the same thing, except, I'd slope the overhang in front down (reverse pitch so to speak, so there's a peak, but it's right over the opening), to again try to block rain from getting inside. 

If the opening will be on the short side (based on the present dimensions probably where I'd put it, with a peaked roof), I'd make the steps about the same width; 1.6-1.75m wide. I'd do it this way so the length of the bldg and steps stay along the existing fence line rather than forcing further extension out into the yard. The roof can still extend out over the steps a ways. In addition, it will make it easier for you to make a kidding pen (or 2 for later) at the back by building a simple wall across (10 feet) and about 6-7 foot deep. Later when you have more animals, this could be split in 1/2 to make 2 kidding pens side by side. It also leaves room in front of the created pens for other goats and for you to move around to access the kidding pens.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

sorry, typing slow and thinking simultaneously...


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

The main thing is, you'll want the steps wide enough that you, a goat, and 2 children can be on them at the same time, because I assure you... that WILL happen! As soon as you start up or down, the goats will think it's a race and try to get passed you. And then your children will want to follow the goat's lead so they'll join the race. Next thing you know, the unsuspecting adult will be laying on her back in the mud wondering where that truck came from... 

Based on the picture, it looks like the driveway/property entrance/road is to the right of the picture. So I'd put the hut entrance on the IN-side end, or left side of the hut/picture... This will help keep a potential thief from being able to slip in and back out unseen. It will also allow you better visibility from inside your home (maybe?). I can't tell orientation from the shadows as it's near noontime there in the picture but you also want to take into account prevailing winds... you don't want the open end facing INTO oncoming wind/rain... you want rain to come at the hut from the back or sides if possible, not the front. 

just another few things to consider


----------



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

Brilliant info!  Thanks so much    The roof will be peaked like a normal house.  The peak runs from the left side of photo to right side towards the driveway entrance.  We will follow your excellent advice.

I have already told the builders I want the door on the left hand side (north side)....but what about door placement?  In the middle or to one side?  Guess the left side (between us and the neighbours....we will be building a high wall between us) would be the best option for allowing more useable space inside?


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

Actually, I'd center the entrance and the stairs. I like symmetry, and don't like uneven lighting or dark corners. just me... Will there be any window openings (I hope) to allow some light in, especially near the back? I wouldn't put one on the south/back wall as I wouldn't want hot sun beating down inside all day.


----------



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

We're not intending to have the walls go all the way up to the roofline, so hopefully lighting won't be a problem?  Husband favors having the door to one side on the left, figuring will give us more room to organise the inside part.  I suppose we should put something over the window openings which would basically run the length of the building (both sides?), running north to south?


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

I think also I'd only put the windows on the west side, 2, facing the property, and maybe at 4-4.5 feet height. I would cover the window openings with wire fencing material say 2"x4" openings/squares on the inside, then do hinged covers on the outside, hinged at the top. You could raise or lower the covers based on hot sun or heavy rains, and prop them open to the degree you wanted, or latch them shut when bad weather. The goats WILL stand up against the wall to look out the windows, so high enough to hopefully prevent jumping (out) but low enough so they can satisfy their innate curiosity.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

we're running neck and neck here...


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

OK, going with those thoughts... I'd still do no windows on the wall side, but would leave the top foot or so open for ventilation but cover it with fence materials none the less. Keep birds and such out leave the whole front/west side open at the top, but still cover with fencing material and I'd put those drop down shutters for shade and bad weather...


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

OK, I've manipulated your thread... time for me to  and let someone else think of/post what I probably forgot...


----------



## thailand (Dec 7, 2015)

Ha ha....I don't mind chatting with you...it's great  

So, the only "windows" you'd have would be along the west side then, right?  With ventilation along the east side/wall side.  And the door side?  Walled in and a door, maybe ventilation along top of that wall also?


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2015)

I would do "peak" vents at the top of the peaks at both ends, slatted/screened to keep weather & birds out. I would do a full length open "vent" along the wall side at the top, maybe the top 1 foot, covered with fencing/screening to keep birds out. I would fully enclose the back wall and the front wall around the door. The door will be left open during the day I would imagine, so no other openings there would really be needed, and closed/locked at night for goat protection. The side wall facing the property/west side, I'd do as you said... 1/2 wall with top 1/2 open covered with fencing and screening on the inside and drop down (latchable) shutters on the outside.


----------



## babsbag (Dec 8, 2015)

I think latestarter has covered it all. But think about which directions your winds come from and make that the side with the most protection. Here I batten down the south and south west of everything I build.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 8, 2015)

You're going to have a goat mansion the likes of which your neighbors have never seen or experienced... The fact that it is for a single goat will lead them to believe it is a goat that delivers solid gold kids...  (everyone knows goats don't lay eggs). Other goats will be green with envy.   Your goat will assume the attitude of the queen that she will be treated as... (loved by a family with 9 kids?! talk about lovin!)   And when the goatie prince(s) and/or princess(es) are finally delivered, their regal birth will be the chatter of the goat world.  Other goats from far and wide will seek to join the herd.   (Actually, you'll be so addicted by this point that YOU'LL be looking to add to the herd!)  And they'll all live happily ever after


----------



## thailand (Dec 8, 2015)

Latestarter!    I LOVE IT!   You're hilarious.....shhh....don't tell my husband this is only the beginning   LOL


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 8, 2015)

One final comment based on my last... just a caution really... Never name your food. If you intend some of these goats for meat/eating, do NOT get attached to those animals. This will be especially important for the kids that they understand. If they want to pick a select couple that will be ongoing herd members, milk/kid producers and make them family pets, well, who can argue with that. They (the kids - and you!) WILL become attached as I'm sure you know. 

Maybe if they name the potential meals with meal names like steak, ground chuck, burrito, taco, enchilada, curry... sorry not familiar with popular NZ or Tai names, but I'm sure they can come up with some


----------



## thailand (Dec 8, 2015)

Ha ha...learnt that lesson already.  No one is allowed to eat our chickens!


----------



## thailand (Dec 9, 2015)

Um....I have a query.  The builder is suggesting that the steps be the same width of the door.  The door is .90 m wide.....and he is recommending the steps be 1m wide.  Any thoughts on this?  If I'm not misunderstanding, I think it was suggested that the steps run the entire width of the building.  Is that right?


----------



## babsbag (Dec 9, 2015)

I think the steps need to be wider so that you and the goat(s) can be on them at the same time. You may want to lead the goat down the steps at some point, or up. Goats don't always go where you want them to when you want them to. Also, the goats are going to try to come down the stairs by pairs, they won't walk single file.  The wider the better.


----------



## thailand (Dec 9, 2015)

Ok thanks, expert advice has been heeded.    The steps are now going to be 2m wide (although the door is finished and is only 1m wide...will this matter?)


----------



## babsbag (Dec 9, 2015)

That doesn't matter at all.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 9, 2015)

They'll still try to get through the door at the same time... with each other or with you... By having the wider steps, it gives you room so neither gets pushed off the side of the steps 1.5m off the ground. Not THAT high, but could hurt... specially if it's you who takes the tumble...


----------



## thailand (Dec 9, 2015)

Ok thanks!  Next question....the area around the goat house (which will end up being fenced), should I remove the grass from the ground and leave just straight dirt there?

I am concerned about cocci and worms.  This is a new property and all manner of animals have been free roaming through here for many years.  It's all the neighbours free-roaming animals....chickens, dogs, ducks etc.  We are hoping to fully fence the property as we can to totally prevent unwanted critters.,,,it just may take a bit more time.


----------



## Southern by choice (Dec 9, 2015)

No, no need to.


----------



## babsbag (Dec 9, 2015)

I wouldn't remove it but you should always check her for worms.  Also cocci is species specific so no goats, no goat cocci.


----------



## thailand (Dec 9, 2015)

oh I see.  Ok I didn't know that, that cocci was species specific.  That is GREAT news....one less thing to have to worry about.  I don't think there are any goats around here for about 20 miles or so!  This means I should be able to take her for walks browsing forest areas etc. immediately right?


----------



## babsbag (Dec 9, 2015)

Yes she can go for walks and hopefully she is used to a lead.  Mine will walk but usually not eat until I turn them lose.


----------



## thailand (Dec 9, 2015)

With the goat house....as it's raised, can I utilise this space underneath somehow?  The floor will be slatted to allow for urine and goat berries to fall through, but if that was raked up regularly could I use this space effectively?  Would love your thoughts on this  

It's all coming together nicely...hopefully will be all finished by the time I get back from Bangkok on Sunday.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 9, 2015)

You could put anything under there that you wish, as long as it's covered, to keep stuff falling through the floor over head, rolling off. Your goat will probably like to go under there during the hottest part of the day for shade. As others said, no need to take the pen down to dirt... It will get there all on it's own more rapidly than you can imagine!


----------

