# Question about Kiko/Boer percentage goats... Really confused...



## Capricornucopia (Jan 26, 2013)

I've been reading a good bit online about Genemasters/Texas Genemasters and seem to find conflicting information at every turn.  
Most of the info I've found refers to a 5/8 Boer - 3/8 Kiko mix. All else may be irrelevant because my main focus is the Kiko bloodline, but I'm curious about a 5/8 Kiko - 3/8 Boer mix.  
Is this a Genemaster, Texas or otherwise? 
Also, as an aside, what of myotonics? Tennessee Fainters x Kikos? 
Any input would be appreciated as at this point I am totally confused.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok so there are Kikos and there are Boers. You cross them and you are able to register them with the NKR, AKGA, IKGA depending on the goats registries and when you cross them and register the offspring you get to call them by a fancy name. Different registries have different names for what they call them which may be confusing you. I'll list how and what they are called by Kiko registry.

NKR
1/2 Kiko 1/2 Boer = GeneMaster
5/8 Boer 3/8 Kiko = Premier GeneMaster
5/8 Kiko 3/8 Boer = Kiko GeneMaster
I have an excellent diagram that helps very much with this and how to breed them to make these and understand better but I am unable to get it up here.

IKGA
1/2/Kiko 1/2 Boer = BoKi
3/4 Kiko 1/4 Boer = American MeatMaker
3/4 Boer 1/4 Kiko = International MeatMaker

AKGA
I do not work with the AKGA at all so I'm not sure how they do things. Though I think they are the ones with the Texas GeneMaster which must be created like:


> TO START WE BRED OUR FULLBLOOD BOER DOES TO FULLBLOOD KIKO BUCKS TO PRODUCE HALF BOER-HALF KIKO OFFSPRING.   WE DID NOT BAND ANY OF THE BUCKS, THEY WERE NEEDED FOR FUTURE BREEDING.
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> THESE HALF-BREED BUCKS WERE BRED BACK TO OUR FULLBLOOD BOER DOES TO PRODUCE 75% BOER AND 25%KIKO KIDS.  THE HALF-BREED DOES WERE BRED TO OUR FULLBLOOD BOER BUCKS TO PRODUCE 75%BOER AND 25%KIKO KIDS.
> 
> THEN THESE  3/4 -1/4 KIDS HAD TO BE BRED  BACK TO THE 50%, FIRST GENERATION ANIMALS TO PRODUCE 5/8% BOER AND 3/8% KIKO, THE TEXAS GENEMASTER.  THIS IS THE 3RD GENERATION THAT IS TO BE BRED TO EACH OTHER.  THIS PROCESS TAKES ABOUT 5 YEARS TO PRODUCE.


The 5/8 Kiko and 3/8 Boer that you are wanting would be the Kiko GeneMaster when using the NKR, my favorite and prefer registry.

Myotonic goats are a breed of goat. That is the breed name, though many people, wrongly I may add, call them Fainting goats, Stiff-leg goats, Fainters, etc. etc. Those are all names made up by people but are not the real name of the breed. The goat is a Mytonic goat. There are other kinds of Myotonics, much in the sense like these GeneMasters. You have Tennessee Meat Goats which are Myotonic goats but they must meet certain standards and are better than your everyday Myotonic goat and were bred to be better. You also have TexMasters which were bred to become a breed, not a cross with a fancy name. These goats are a breed and do breed true, unlike a GeneMaster or BoKi because they are really just crosses. TexMasters were created by using Myotonic or Tennessee Meat Goat bucks and crossing them onto Boer does.

Hope that helps some. Keep on with the Kikos. Greatest bred on the planet.


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 26, 2013)

You have made Straw Hats day


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## Southern by choice (Jan 26, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

> You have made Straw Hats day


 I was thinking the same thing!  He is so over the top about his Kiko's! But that's a good thing.


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## Mamaboid (Jan 26, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said "Myotonic goats are a breed of goat. That is the breed name, though many people, wrongly I may add, call them Fainting goats, Stiff-leg goats, Fainters, etc. etc. Those are all names made up by people but are not the real name of the breed. The goat is a Mytonic goat. There are other kinds of Myotonics, much in the sense like these GeneMasters. You have Tennessee Meat Goats which are Myotonic goats but they must meet certain standards and are better than your everyday Myotonic goat and were bred to be better."

Stepping up on high horse.........
I don't want to hijack this thread, and I don't normally take exception to anything anybody says on here, because everybody is entitled to their own opinions and there are very few absolute rights or wrongs, and this is a great site with great people and there is a lot of knowledge to be found here.  Besides, I don't like to disagree or argue with anybody unless I am face to face so they can see my intent, not just read it and maybe misinterpret.  Having said all that, please know that as I type this I am smiling  and also doing  a bit of      OK, Here goes.

I raise Myotonic Goats.   About 90% of the time I call them Fainters.  When you say Fainters, people know what you are talking about.  When you say Myotonic, people look at you with a blank look on their faces.  Why is it any more Wrong to call a Myotonic a Fainter than it is to call a Nubian a Nubi, or a Nigerian Dwarf an ND or a Toggenburg a Togg.  We see these things all the time and nobody tells us we are wrong.  

Tennessee Meat Goats are probably a 'better' goat if you are looking strictly for meat quality.  Maybe.  I raise 'everyday' Myotonics, and I can tell you that for pets, they cannot be beat.  For Meat, they are hard to beat. For ease of care they are the easiest goat to take care of because they do not test fences, jump on things including people, and they are hardy and parasite resistant.  I milk my does and get a generous amount of great tasting milk from them, and they are easy on the milk stand because they do not jump, kick, etc.  They are great Moms, and the Bucks are the sweetest things ever.  

I love your passion for your Kiko goats.  I understand your passion for your Kiko goats, because of all the breeds out there, they are probably the closest to 'Fainters' you can get in temperment and ease of care and are my number 2 favorite goat.  One of the best crosses you can get is a Myotonic/Kiko cross.  My next doe that is due is a Nubian/Kiko cross and she is bred to a Fainter buck and I think she is going to make wonderful multi-purpose babies.  

Stepping down off high horse, putting nose back in joint, and hoping you take all this the way I intend.  
If not, I will just be over here


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 26, 2013)

Funny you say all that. I'd like to address each part as you said them.



> I raise Myotonic Goats.   About 90% of the time I call them Fainters.  When you say Fainters, people know what you are talking about.  When you say Myotonic, people look at you with a blank look on their faces.  Why is it any more Wrong to call a Myotonic a Fainter than it is to call a Nubian a Nubi, or a Nigerian Dwarf an ND or a Toggenburg a Togg.  We see these things all the time and nobody tells us we are wrong.


I am not saying it is wrong to call them anything other than a Myotonic. I am simply saying that the breed name is Myotonic, which it is, and I could see that the OP did not know that a "Fainting goat" is the same as a Myotonic goat. So I was just telling the OP that they are the same goat but one if the "correct" name and the others are nicknames. I take no offense in you calling them "Fainting goat", "Fainter", etc. You may call them whatever you wish to call them. It's not up to me to tell you what to call them. I personally will only call the Myotonic goats but there is a reason for that, which I'll get to in a second. Again, I was just saying that the breed name is Myotonic and a "Fainting goat" is a Myotonic goat.  So I hope you do not get or feel that I am bashing anyone for calling them what they wish to call them.



> Tennessee Meat Goats are probably a 'better' goat if you are looking strictly for meat quality.  Maybe.  I raise 'everyday' Myotonics, and I can tell you that for pets, they cannot be beat.  For Meat, they are hard to beat. For ease of care they are the easiest goat to take care of because they do not test fences, jump on things including people, and they are hardy and parasite resistant.  I milk my does and get a generous amount of great tasting milk from them, and they are easy on the milk stand because they do not jump, kick, etc.  They are great Moms, and the Bucks are the sweetest things ever.


Yes, correct. For meat I too think they are a better goat but not all are and I myself would rather buy good Myotonic goats then TMG because of the price difference.  I am not trying to say one breed is better than any other breed, again, simply stating facts. 



> I love your passion for your Kiko goats.  I understand your passion for your Kiko goats, because of all the breeds out there, they are probably the closest to 'Fainters' you can get in temperment and ease of care and are my number 2 favorite goat.  One of the best crosses you can get is a Myotonic/Kiko cross.  My next doe that is due is a Nubian/Kiko cross and she is bred to a Fainter buck and I think she is going to make wonderful multi-purpose babies.


Thank you.  Actually I agree! Myotonic goats and Kiko goats are very close to each other. They have alot of the same traits and are alike in many, many ways. 

As for you saying that the Kiko is your #2 breed. How funny is that because Myotonic goats are my #2 goat! I do not want to get to it on here but I have a deep passion for the Myotonic goat, just as I do the Kiko, and ultimately I want to run a heard of high quality Kiko and Myotonic goats.

So I agree with all you are saying, am not saying or telling you what to call them, just stating facts and giving info on the matter.

As for why I call them Myotonic goats; now this may not be for everyone but in my experience people that call them Fainters are uneducated and have no idea what they are talking about. I can see the people on this forum and on the internet that are of course knowledgeable and smart so they do NOT apply, but in person and around here, the people that call them Fainters aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, if you know what I mean. Then the breed name is Myotonic and nobody knows that so I try to get people to realize that.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 26, 2013)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

> I raise Myotonic Goats.   About 90% of the time I call them Fainters.  When you say Fainters, people know what you are talking about.  When you say Myotonic, people look at you with a blank look on their faces.  Why is it any more Wrong to call a Myotonic a Fainter than it is to call a Nubian a Nubi, or a Nigerian Dwarf an ND or a Toggenburg a Togg.  We see these things all the time and nobody tells us we are wrong.


Very good point!

Yes Straw is my farm partner... but I have nothing to do with meat goats. I want to say that because I am one of the "ignorant ones"  to the meat goat world! I have dairy goats.

It seems around here when people advertise "Fainters" the goats are nothing like a meat goat... they are real small and look like a cute little pet goat. Not much bigger than a ND.

Straw talked often about really wanting to get some Myotonic Goats..... all about how they are awesome goats and right up there with the Kiko, and blah blah blah.... he loves his meat goats!   This seriously confused me... I was thinking why on earth would you want something like that... see I was thinking about the "fainters" advertised around here. When he showed me the Myotonics ...    I was like OHHHHHH.

It seems that they are almost like two different goats. I think of fainters as small pets. I think of Myotonics as meat goats.

Maybe this is a regional thing.. I don't know. So when I see them advertised.... it usually pans out as the above. The "fainters" are not meat goats around here.  Of course I now know fainters/myotonics are the same so to speak but it is shocking at how different they are here.

Weird isn't it.


by the way I watched your doe kid on the webcam thingy!


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 26, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

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Thus the reason "myotonia" is a disqualifying characteristic in Nigerian Dwarfs


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## Mamaboid (Jan 26, 2013)

Last words of the highjack.  I wanna meet you in person, Straw.  I think we think alike.  

We now return the thread back to Capricornucopia with thanks for allowing the temporary detour.


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## Capricornucopia (Jan 26, 2013)

LOL, I didn't mean to cause such a stir with only my second post!  

 Thank you, Straw Hat Kikos and Mamaboid, for your time and answers. Very helpful stuff that gives me more to think on.

 As a long term goal, I'm considering developing my own high-quality, dual-purpose breed. Lofty thinking, to be sure. Haha!

  Years ago, when I first started looking into goats, I was initially drawn to dairy goats because that was what was most common in my area. Then I discovered meat goats were gaining in popularity and availability, although the Boer goat seemed to dominate the playing field. I'm not sure why, but the Boers never really appealed to me (perhaps because I like more color/pattern variety). Still I'm not opposed to using some of the Boer's genetics (hybrid vigor and what not). 

 I began looking at various other breeds and found the Kiko and the Myotonics, my current favorite being the Kiko. From what I've seen, these two breeds seem close to what I want in a herd as part of my foundation stock.

Thanks again, and I'd love to hear more of your input! Meanwhile, I've got some reading to do... Haha!


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## Mamaboid (Jan 26, 2013)

LOL, you didn't cause a stir, we just like to be thorough in our answers.     Here are some good sites that I have found for information on Myotonics.  There are lots of them but these are my favorites.

http://www.myotonicgoatregistry.net/ 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/nov/05/fainting-goats-explained

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/myotonicgoats.html

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/goats/


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 26, 2013)

Onion Creek Ranch has good Myotonics, TMG, and TexMasters. She's one of the most well known Myotonic breeders and she's created the TMG and TexMaster.

I would love to talk Kikos with you, or goats in general. I'll PM you some Kiko info and research in a few minutes.

I too have thought about my own cross and the "Perfect Meat Goat" which would be a Myotonic Kiko cross.  Reason the Boer Kiko cross is so big is because it has a fancy name, just as the TexMaster now does.

Boers are good goats and I am a big Boer fan, though it will never come off that way as it looks like I bash them, but I only like Boers if they are good ones. There are so many Boer goats in the US and most of them are bad goats. I think even Boer people would agree to that. Most, esp east of the Mississippi, have no parasite resistance, horrible hooves, and are overall bad goats. Out west they aren't as bad but here east most have issues. Reasons why are another story for another time. I would like to say, before I am attacked, not all are like this and I am not calling any of your Boer goats bad quality. 

Yep meat goats are growing very quickly and they are alot less work than dairy goats. You can feed 200 goats in the time it takes to milk 10 does.

I don't think you could go wrong with either breed. Both are very much alike.


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 26, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

> Southern by choice said:
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Really wish "Swiss" markings was a DQ for N.D.'s

Oh, I hijacked again didn't I?


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## Capricornucopia (Jan 27, 2013)

LOL! That's okay OneFineAcre! I soak up info like a sponge, and I often go off-topic along various tangents. One never knows where a conversation may lead.

Thank you for those links, Mamaboid. I will, believe it or not, read every word, and I'm sure I'll find some helpful information!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 27, 2013)

@ 1 Fine Acre- 





> Really wish "Swiss" markings was a DQ for N.D.'s


Why?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 27, 2013)

I was curious as to why as well.  The only thing I can guess is that some disreputable people might try to cross an ND with an Alpine or something so as to cheat a win.  I love the Swiss coat though.


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## jodief100 (Jan 27, 2013)

I raise kikos, I love them.  Wonderful,  hardy goats that I rarely have to worm.  They are a little on the smaller side and not as stocky.  I mix and match.  I have a few boers and I recently bought come MiKi's (myotonic, kiko crosses).

The fastest growing, biggest, most solid goats I have are my BoKi kids that have Boer Sires and Kiko Dams.  They get size from the boer and the kikos are great moms with LOTS of milk.  They don't breed true but they are fantastic terminal kids.  

I have added some myotonic genes because they tend to have the highest dress out percentage and best carcass quality.  I am seeing if I can retain some of those characteristics in my breeder kids.  We will see how it works.  

It really all comes down to good breeding.  There are good Boers, but lots of bad ones.  There are good kikos and some bad ones. There are "meat"  myotionics and "pet"  myotonics.


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 27, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

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What Pearce Pastures said.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 27, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

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That is just sad.


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 27, 2013)

You quoted me before I edited the last line out


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## Southern by choice (Jan 27, 2013)

Reminds me of the dog show world... where "Clairol" reigned! :/


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