# Adding hot wire or barbed wire to fence helps with predators??



## secuono (Apr 25, 2011)

We already have a field fence and want to get sheep. But I keep reading about coyotes being a problem. I'm in northern central Virginia, no idea if we even have coyotes, I've seen foxes, but nothing larger.
Can we just add a strand of barbed wire or two to the top?
Or should we add a strand of hot wire to the top instead?


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## carolinagirl (Apr 25, 2011)

that would help, but adding an additional strand of hot wire outside closer to the bottom is good added protection.


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## patandchickens (Apr 25, 2011)

Coyotes can go either over or under (or thru), but are more apt to go under. This can be real hard to prevent.

A LOW (like 6") hotwire on the outside will help HOWEVER it is quite difficult to maintain hot (you have to walk the fence very, very frequently and weedwhack every time the weeds threaten to grow up, and it will not work well in wintertime if you are in a snowy area). 

Some sheep producers will run a strand or two of barbwire right on or barely-above the ground, on the outside of the fence; I don't know how much good this does, but it is definitely not safe if there will be pet dogs or livestock such as horses on the other side of the fence.

A hotwire higher on the fence isn't a bad idea *too* but digging is yer coyote's usual first impulse.

This is why people tend to either lock the sheep into an extra predatorproof night yard or barn every night, or have trained guardian animals live with the flock. And still sometimes lose sheep.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## carolinagirl (Apr 25, 2011)

I am getting an anatolian shepherd pup later this year, but still plan to put the sheep in a paddock area closer to the  house at night.  Too many people around here let their dogs run loose and I know there are coyotes in the area as well.


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## rockdoveranch (Apr 25, 2011)

I think the only sure fired way to protect your sheep is to get LGDs.

Hot wire, barbed wire and field wire will not keep predators out.

That said . . . we do not have LGDs.  I _did_ a LOT of research on them after having a neighbors dog kill a lovely little black belly ram lamb a few years back.

From what I read I believe the Anatolian is the superior LGD dog, but I have never had a guardian or guard dog before and the idea of having an ASD is a little scary to me.  They are incredibly beautiful though!

If I did get a LGD it would be Great Pyrenees.  The reasoning is that we have a lot of children on our 1 1/2 mile road in the middle of nowhere, and I believe the breed would be less likely to hurt a child if he/she wandered onto our distant pastures.  We only have 32 acres.


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## carolinagirl (Apr 26, 2011)

I chose ASD for a number of reasons.  I like their short, no maintenance coat for one.  I live in south Carolina where the summers are HOT and humid.  ASDs have a coat that can handle that kind of weather.  I also chose them for their temperament.  I know they are very good watch dogs and probably more aggressive than other LGD breeds, but compared to the rotties I have had in past years, that does not bother me.  I also love the fact that since this breed is so new to AKC registration, there are no puppy-mill versions of ASD out there yet.  Nearly all of them remain very true to their heritage.  they also don't have the hip problems or other health problems that many large breeds have (although still getting dogs from OFA certified parents is always a good idea).  And this breed also has a very long life compared to most giant breeds at 14 to 15 years.  It took me a while to choose my breeder.  Both parents are working dogs (goats) and the sire is also an AKC grand Champion.  He is an amazing dog.  That's the only reason I am willing to wait for the pup.  In the mean time, I'll have to rely on hot wire and paddock at night for protection.


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## rockdoveranch (Apr 26, 2011)

I love people who do their research before making any kind of decision whether it be on a forum, networking, googling or books!  

I am 61 YIKES! and have had Boxers all my life.  I have never been around German Shepherds, Rotties or Dobies.  Had I been, I am sure I would have gotten an ASD!

Carolinagirl, don't get me started on the racket going on with some AKC breeders.  I think THEY are responsible for many of the genetic diseases out there today!  I am sure puppy mills play a big part, but after my last experience I think the problem lays mostly with a specific type of AKC breeder who puts what they want over the health of the dog and their puppies, and then toss out rules and regulations for us folk who want a pet.  EEEEEEEERRRR!


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## carolinagirl (Apr 26, 2011)

rockdoveranch said:
			
		

> I love people who do their research before making any kind of decision whether it be on a forum, networking, googling or books!
> 
> I am 61 YIKES! and have had Boxers all my life.  I have never been around German Shepherds, Rotties or Dobies.  Had I been, I am sure I would have gotten an ASD!
> 
> Carolinagirl, don't get me started on the racket going on with some AKC breeders.  I think THEY are responsible for many of the genetic diseases out there today!  I am sure puppy mills play a big part, but after my last experience I think the problem lays mostly with a specific type of AKC breeder who puts what they want over the health of the dog and their puppies, and then toss out rules and regulations for us folk who want a pet.  EEEEEEEERRRR!


Boy you got that right!! MANY great breeds have been destroyed because of breeders trying to achieve a certain look.  The two most notable examples that come to mine are German Shepherds and Collies.  GSD breeders wanted to get that sloping rear end look.  Well, they got it.  The dogs rear ends slope so much that the hips and pasterns/hocks are weak. Now most police dogs are not GSDs anymore, they are belgian malinois.   And collie breeders wanted a narrow head, so they bred out brains.  Collies used to be awesome working dogs.  Now it is rare to find a good sound working example of either, unless the line has been carefully preserved.  

So far, the Anatolian breeders I have been looking at put working ability over everything else.  I bet most, if not all, of the AKC champion Anatolians are working dogs that go home after the show and rejoin their flocks or herds.  And all of the breeders I have encountered require OFA certification on the pup (when it's old enough) even if you never plan to breed or show because they want to know if their bloodlines are producing any hip problems.  I love the code of ethics I have seen with  these breeders!  

My local farm paper is loaded with people selling Anatolians and pyr (and crosses) for $100.  That scares me.  Right now, those are the folks who are breeding without regard to genetic problems.  There were actually some pyr pups sold at the local livestock auction a month or so ago for $25.  I wish I was at that auction....I would have rescued them all and rehomed them.  I was told they were filthy, thin and flea infested.  Treated like livestock.  That is tragic and should be against the law.  Oh I could go on and on forever about how dogs are so mistreated and poorly bred.  It's just so hard to get decent dogs.  It is SO hard to wait for my puppy.  His litter is not even concieved yet, but should be soon.  Waiting is HARD!!! But I know this puppy will be part of my family for 14 or 15 years.  I'll wait for just the right one.


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## rockdoveranch (Apr 26, 2011)

carolinagirl, 

That is just sickening to learn what breeders have done to GSDs and Collies!  And your story about ASDs, Pyrs and their mixes in your area!  My Gosh!  That just turns my stomach!  I will NEVER understand people!

All my Boxers have lived to be 12 with the exception of a rescue I got whose age the vets did not all agree on.  NOW Boxer breeders will tell you we are lucky to have our Boxers live 8 to 10 years!  This is insane!

After my rescue died I was very depressed, and a pup just sort of fell into my lap.  I was on my way to a shelter to look at a heartworm positive male when 2 hours into the 3 hour drive my daughter told me about a friend of a friend who had puppies and one was a white.  We had a white in the 1980s who lived to be 12 and died of Mast Cell.  I was grieving terribly for my Boxer who had died and it seemed like both my adult kiddos where cheering me on to go look at this White, so I did.

I had no idea I was going to the home of an American Boxer Club (ABC) show person and breeder until I got to her house. The breeder very carefully went over all the certifications both parents had to assure me her pups were health, that is according the the ABC!

When I asked about Mast Cell and Osteo Sarcoma she told me those diseases were not issues like the diseases she health checked her dogs for.  She did tell me one of her pups had a testicle that had not descended and she was going to have to sell him as a pet.

I left a deposit, but she did not tell me I would have to sign a contract until the night before I drove 2 1/2 hours to pick him up 3 1/2 weeks later.  This was my first mistake, but by that time I just had to have this pup.  I needed him!  I agreed to the contract over the phone.  This is not the first stupid thing I have done in my 61 years!

When I brought him home and took him to the "required" vet check the next day, I learn he only had one descended testicle.  The other was way up the in abdominal area.  Since the breeder stressed health and insisting on wanting to know of any problems, I called her.  She did not think it was a big deal.  I was not planning on major surgery to have my dog neutered.

After joining a Boxer forum I come to learn that American Boxer Club (ABC) members who are big posters on forums do not know the difference between true monorchidism, unilateral cryptorchidism and bilateral cryptorchidism.  Plus it is clear the ABC does not know the difference when reading their website.  They also do not think any of the above is a big deal because they pawn these pups off as pet-only with strict contracts, and keep breeding the parents even though cryptorchidisma and monorchidism is genetic.  Merck considers such puppies as unsound and should not be bred.  The ABC does not care!

My breeder did not bother to mention that she had had her bitch tested of Degenerative Myelopathy along with a half brother of my dog that shares the same sire.  My dogs father was frozen semen and he is in the pedigree of my dogs dam.  *She did tell me after my dogs half brother died of the disease over a year after I got my pup.*

When she emailed me she referred to it as a "heads up down the road."  Turns out both my dogs dam and half brother tested AT RISK, meaning they have/had both allels for DM!

The ABC "recommends" breeders to test for a few genetic diseases, but NOT DM!  So, I assume this is why the breeder did not bother to tell me that the dam and half brother were AT RISK.

I asked her if I should have my dog tested, and she said NO!  Well, I had him tested through the OFA and he carries both allels.  I am Pi$$ed out of my mind, but the breeder does not believe it is a big deal because "it is an old age disease."  Well . . . my research says it can happen at any age.

*When I got my dogs results I started to look around the OFA site and found the EXACT date my breeder had the dam tested, and it was months before she bred her.*

She considers herself an ethical breeder by ABC guidelines!

If you look up Boxer on petfinder.com the number of BOXERS listed is SHOCKING!  Turns my stomach!

RANT RANT RANT !

I am SO saddened that this sort of stuff happens with other once wonderful breeds.


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## carolinagirl (Apr 26, 2011)

That is just horrible.  REALLY sad.  It seems that most breeds that are AKC recognized for any length of time start to suffer.  The more popular the breed, the sooner it happens.  People start realizing that they can make money on a breed, and that's it for that breed.  After Disney's movie 101 Dalmations came out, EVERYONE had to have one.  They were the "dog of the year"!! And soon after, the rescue places were stuffed to the brim with unwanted ones.  People don't do their homework.  You don't pick a breed because you saw it in a movie and it was cute, or because matches your decore.  You know another thing I like about Anatolians?  They look like big mutts.  Unless you knew what they were, you'd have no idea that they were actually a purebred dog.  They are about as generic looking as you can get for a registered dog.  It's easier to deal with home owner insurance companies that way too.  Anatolians are NOT on any of the "bad dog" lists.  Yet.


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## rockdoveranch (Apr 26, 2011)

carolinagirl said:
			
		

> That is just horrible.  REALLY sad.  It seems that most breeds that are AKC recognized for any length of time start to suffer.  The more popular the breed, the sooner it happens.  People start realizing that they can make money on a breed, and that's it for that breed.  After Disney's movie 101 Dalmations came out, EVERYONE had to have one.  They were the "dog of the year"!! And soon after, the rescue places were stuffed to the brim with unwanted ones.  People don't do their homework.  You don't pick a breed because you saw it in a movie and it was cute, or because matches your decore.  You know another thing I like about Anatolians?  They look like big mutts.  Unless you knew what they were, you'd have no idea that they were actually a purebred dog.  They are about as generic looking as you can get for a registered dog.  It's easier to deal with home owner insurance companies that way too.  Anatolians are NOT on any of the "bad dog" lists.  Yet.


You are a person after my own heart!  I agree with everything you are saying, especially about people not doing their homework!

In my opinion, the over population of unwanted dogs has nothing to do with spaying/neutering, it is all about people not doing their homework before bringing a dog home!

I too think the ASD is beautiful because of its big mutt like appearance.  Beautiful dogs!


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## secuono (Apr 26, 2011)

AKC is purely LOOKS not ability to work, health, etc. 
Dang near impossible to find real working dogs in VA, all are mutts, bred for looks or backyard filth with more health and mental problems than you can count. 
Border Collies from the farm come in different heights, coat lengths and all from farms where they all work. Not some city folks back patio, which is where any random person will end up getting their dog. 

Just had something kill 60+ chickens...not looking at getting sheep right now...


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## rockdoveranch (Apr 26, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> Just had something kill 60+ chickens...not looking at getting sheep right now...



So sorry to learn about the loss of your chickens.


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