# Should I buy? I need help Today!! ~LOOK~



## secuono (Sep 29, 2011)

My breeder for the Babydoll sheep is selling them all off!!!
I need to know which to buy now. Please help me choose!
The Ram area is not fully secure yet. I can make the field secure[little bits here and there they might crawl through] secure over the weekend. The barn area for them is also nearly done, just need to add fencing to keep them from the hay storage. 
Should I get Lamb ewes and hope I can find and afford a Ram next year?
Or should I get two Ewes and a Ram and have them out together now? I'd love 3 ewes and a ram, how does color work? If I get a black ram and white ewes??

"We have nine for sale: a white ram and a black ram (born 2010), two white ewe lambs (born 2011), three black ewes, and two white ewes (ewes range in age)"

Thanks!!!!


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 29, 2011)

I don't know the answer to your color question, but you sound like us. Buy first and when they are here make it work.   Brought home our two new bucks with nothing rearranged and nothing ready for them.  ON the way home with them in the trailer we start discussing, where are we giong to put them?   

So I say go for it.  actually since the ram is plenty old enough to bother the ewes, you would really need to have a seperate place to keep him away from the ewes.  How hard will it be to fix the ram inclosure to make it secure?  How hard will it be to find another ram next year, after the ewes get older. Exactly how old are the ewes?  Are they early January ewes or late spring ewes. How dangerous would it be for them to be bred if the ram gets out in the next couple of months?  

ask youself these questions and good luck with your desision.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 29, 2011)

Go with the Ram and two ewes.  That's what you want, right?  You got the chance to get them, why not?  If you know you can get the barn and area they will be in secured by the time they get here, why not do it now?  

Get the White Ram and one black Ewe and one white Ewe.  Or get the Black Ram and one Black Ewe and and One White Ewe.   Should get some color out of both combinations if you want it.  

As long as they are all healthy, you have your choice.  Do you know why this person is selling all his sheep?  I would definitely find out why.  

If all is well, go for it!


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 29, 2011)

If you buy 2 adult ewes and a ram (make sure he's unrelated) you can put them together now for breeding.  Then, you have about 2 months or so to work on an enclosure for the ram.  Or, get 2 rams so he'll have a buddy.  I'm not 100% positive, but I'm almost positive their coloring works the same way with Romneys.  Romneys come in white and natural colored, and you can get either color from either color, know what I mean?  I had a white ewe bred to a nat. colored ram 2 years in a row and the first year she had twins, one of each color. The second year she had 2 white twins.  I used her natural colored ram (born the first year) to breed my Southdown (standard, not babydoll) last fall and this year she had 1 natural colored ewe lambs.


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 29, 2011)

Here  is a very informative page about selecting good qualities in Babydoll Southdowns.  

And some things to ask about:

Ewes:
-have they lambed before?
  - if so, do they routinely have multiple lambs (you want muliples, not singles!)
-were they themselves a multiple?
-does their udder have any lumps (feel for an udder and see if anything is hard or uneven)
-how are their teeth?  You want a sheep with teeth that aren't worn down
-how old are they? Avoid any ewes older than 5 or 6 unless they're discounted and still have several good breeding years left
-how is her conformation?

Rams:
-has he sired lambs?
-was he a multiple at birth?
-does he have 2 testicles (make sure to feel them) and are they even?
-how is his conformation?


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## secuono (Sep 29, 2011)

Couldn't the ram live with the ewes until before they lamb? 
If I got both rams, would they fight over the ewes? Could I get both rams and 3 ewes? What other animal could be the rams friend?


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## SheepGirl (Sep 29, 2011)

We've had a purebred natural colored Babydoll ewe bred to a purebred natural colored Babydoll ram and got a white lamb.


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## secuono (Sep 29, 2011)

Alright, if I get the ram and two ewes, they would be together during the breeding season. When 'should' I remove him? 
Also, how much of a fence do I really need for him? How tall should it be or will any height work as long as he has a friend and it's not breeding season?


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 29, 2011)

I would think a 4' fence *should* be plenty tall for a Babydoll Southdown.  Yes, 2 rams could fight, but not necessarily over the ewes. They could just fight because they're male and that's what they do.     You could get a wether or him if you don't want to rams.  

Yes, I guess the rams could live with the ewes until they lamb, but like Sheepgirl said the ewes are going to need more nutrition than the rams.  You'll not only waste food but also end up with pudgy rams.  If you were going to separate them, you can do so whenever you think they've had plenty of time to breed.  Like was said before, keeping them in for at least 2, preferrably 3, heat cycles should be long enough.


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## secuono (Sep 29, 2011)

The breeder said she keeps them all together until the lambs are 9mo, then they are separated so those little ones wont be bred that fall. 

If I could do that, unwanted rams would be sold or eaten. I would hope until I get two ewe lambs I could keep that set up going. 1 ram would be wethered to be a companion. Then I could go with having the rams only with the ewes for breeding. 

They would all eat grass, hay late fall and winter. I've been feeding my horses on opposite sides of the barn, since the pony is a pig. 
I could do the same the 1st year with the two ewes and lock the ram out during feeding.


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## SheepGirl (Sep 29, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> My breeder for the Babydoll sheep is selling them all off!!!
> I need to know which to buy now. Please help me choose!
> The Ram area is not fully secure yet. I can make the field secure[little bits here and there they might crawl through] secure over the weekend. The barn area for them is also nearly done, just need to add fencing to keep them from the hay storage.
> Should I get Lamb ewes and hope I can find and afford a Ram next year?
> ...


Okay, so what I am getting from this information is that:
1) There are 2 yearling rams
2) There are 2 ewe lambs
3) There are 5 mature ewes

I would get one or both of the yearling rams. Because you are new to sheep(?) I would get at least two mature ewes (and not the ewe lambs). By getting two rams and two ewes, you can breed them and their offspring together.

For example, you have Ram A and Ram B. You also have Ewe C and Ewe D. You can breed A to C the first year and B to D the first year. The next year, you can breed B to C and A to D. So far you will have AxC, BxC, AxD, and BxD lambs. You can cross the AxC and BxD lambs for non-inbred sheep and you can cross all the half siblings together for 12.5% inbred lambs (which you can send to market). After two or three years of using the first two rams, you can sell them and buy one or two more rams to introduce new genes into your flock.

(Sorry if that was a bit confusing--I hope it made some sense! )

ETA: Look at this link  for an idea for breeding your sheep if you do only end up with one ram.


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## manybirds (Sep 29, 2011)

i'de think you could cross the colors


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## secuono (Sep 30, 2011)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> secuono said:
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I think that would be too much hassle and too many enclosures all over the place to keep up with that. I was mainly thinking of keeping one ram, let him breed the two ewes for 2-3 yrs, their lambs and all and then get a new ram and sell off the original or wether him to be the new rams friend. 

I'll check the link you posted, too.


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## secuono (Sep 30, 2011)

Read it over. New Q, do sheep NEED ear tags? I rather have nothing on them, I may tattoo their ears like I will be doing with my meat rabbits.
Also, how many days until this breed of sheep delivers? Or is it the same for all sheep regardless of breed or size?


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 30, 2011)

Sheep don't *need* eartags unless you're selling them off the farm (look into Scrapie tag regulations).  If yours come with Scrapie tags, I'd leave them in.  It's up to you if you want to tag any lambs born though.  

And all sheep have gestation of ~148 days.  It can range from 145-150, give or take.


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## secuono (Sep 30, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> Sheep don't *need* eartags unless you're selling them off the farm (look into Scrapie tag regulations).  If yours come with Scrapie tags, I'd leave them in.  It's up to you if you want to tag any lambs born though.
> 
> And all sheep have gestation of ~148 days.  It can range from 145-150, give or take.


So if I want to sell any lambs as food or pets or w/e, I'd have to tag em first? The ones I'm buying then should have them, no? Does it cost anything or need a vet to test them or something?


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 30, 2011)

You'll need to look up the APHIS rules for which animals need Scrapie tags.  They are free, they'll send you the tagger and tags.  Just call your local APHIS and they'll get your name and address and send you the stuff.  I eartag all my sheep.  Not only does it help tell them apart (not so much for me, but for others) and because sometimes I show, sell animals, etc.  The Scrapie tags aren't saying your animals are Scrapie free, they're just there so that animal can be tracked to the farm where it was born.


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## secuono (Sep 30, 2011)

What happens if I refuse to tag them? 
I don't show or take them to auction or the butcher. 
What about the adults I buy off of another person, if they have no tags, they weren't born on my land?


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 30, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> What happens if I refuse to tag them?
> I don't show or take them to auction or the butcher.
> What about the adults I buy off of another person, if they have no tags, they weren't born on my land?


In virginia they should be scrappie tagged by the farm that they were born on, or registered and have the tattoos in their ears that go with their registration, when they leave the original farm they were born on. They are suppose to carry this form of identification with them through out their lives, no matter how many farms they go to. 

HOw many people really follow these practices? For sure not everyone. 


Call the extension office in your county to ask about scrappie laws?  ask what they suggest if you purchase animals that do not have scrappie tags on them. I really don't know what the laws are on that.  Or what their advice would be.


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## SheepGirl (Sep 30, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

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You would just need one pen per breeding ram so you can separate the different breeding groups. So if you had a pen for your ewes and a pen for your three rams, you'd only need one more pen because you can convert the other two pens into breeding pens.

But anyway, as to your question about the Scrapie tags, if the breeder doesn't have a premises ID, then they need to call their local USDA/APHIS office and get one. I think they are still sending out free tags and applicators. If your sheep don't come with Scrapie tags, not only is it illegal for the mandatory program, you need to write down the breeder's name, address, and phone number, in case anyone comes knocking on your door. The rule is any lamb or sheep over 18 months old needs to be identified with a Scrapie tag. And any sheep or lamb under 18 months old NOT moving into a slaughter channel needs to be IDed, too. Check this  out.

If you have any more questions, look at http://eradicatescrapie.org


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## Bossroo (Sep 30, 2011)

In this new world order and it's ramifications, one would be well advised not to purchase any sheep  that is not identified as to scrapies. Doing so is at your own risk and peril. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.   Please refer to what happened in England after an outbreak a short time ago... animals were siezed, destroyed then burned. With horses, similar laws as to requirements for Coggins test if a horse is transported to shows, rides, eventing,   breeding farms, and crossing State lines, etc. . One has to have the current (within 6 months) Veterinary certificate together with the horses identification traveling with the horse.


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## secuono (Sep 30, 2011)

Thanks everyone about all the crazy Scrapie stuff, I'll try to find more info later on. 

I'm going with the one black ram and two white ewes.


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