# Nigerian Dwarf growth question.



## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

My babies are a few days older than 5 weeks. Just weighed them this morning and my boy is 5 lbs and my girl is 6 lbs. The only growth chart I can find is for pygmys and according to that they're under weight by about 4 lbs. Should I be worried?


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## babsbag (Nov 29, 2016)

I don't know that I would be worried but that seems a little small. Can you take a fecal to a vet and see if they have any worms or cocci?  Also, like @Goat Whisperer said, maybe start putting out a little feed for them and see if that helps.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 29, 2016)

Depends on what they weighed when they were born
Mine usually double weight in 10-14 days from birth


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## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

No idea what they weighed when they were born. I got these babies for free from a family who I think didn't know what all they were getting into with farm animals lol. I'm currently in search of a vet right now. How much does a vet usually charge for a fecal and how often do I need to have a fecal performed?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 29, 2016)

How are you feeding them?
What are they eating?
What has been the protocol up til now?


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 29, 2016)

They sound very small. 

Cost of a fecal really depends on the vet or lab you use. You can send a fecal to http://www.midamericaagresearch.net/instructions.php I believe it is a $10 fee. Get individual samples, don't do a group sample. 

I would get them on grain and a good quality hay. My growing kids like orchard/alfalfa hay. Are you sure the weight is accurate? They look bigger in the pic. 

Here are some examples of our 2016 Nigerian Dwarf doeling. They are all PB and registered. 

4 weeks- Lucy's kids:
Belle- 9.8
Rain- 9.4
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5 weeks:
Clover- 10lbs
CarolinaGirl- 12lbs
Boots- 8.4lbs
Foxy- 9lbs
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Just over 6 weeks:
Clover- 12.2lbs
CarolinaGirl- 14lbs
Boots- 9.4lbs
Foxy- 10.4lbs
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12 weeks:
Clover- 22lbs
CarolinaGirl- 26lbs

Boots & Foxy were from a litter of 5 (yes! 5 kids!) They were extremely small, less than 2lbs at birth. 

Clover & CarolinaGirl are twins.


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## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

I've only had them about a week now. They're being bottle fed I feed them goats milk anywhere from 6-8 oz 2x a day had to drop them down from 3 to 2 times a day because of my work schedule and they get hay and water 24/7. I'm not sure exactly what kind of hay it is I bought it from someone local that he cuts and feeds his horses with but it smells great! And it's still green in places after drying. Looks like a mix. I figured I'd introduce a small amount of grain this weekend when I'm off so I can watch them closer.


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## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

I'm also planning on slowly transferring them over on a cows milk/evaporated milk/buttermilk Mix since goats milk is $18/gallon right now!


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## Southern by choice (Nov 29, 2016)

Tagging @Goat Whisperer  she is my farm partner and she is the master at bottle babies and no one I trust more with the bottle management on our farm.

She does things differently for 1 1/2 lb babies than 3-4 lb kid Nigerians.  We have had quints so tiny they fit in a feed scoop. LOL

Be careful when switching over. Did the dam have her CD & T a month prior to kidding? Have these kids had a CD &T.

We have seen on several farms this year issues with switching over... all the goats were unvaccinated.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 29, 2016)

I agree with SBC, you need to be very careful when switching milk. This can cause some serious issues, especially when you are adding new things to the diet (like grain). 
I wouldn't do much until they have at least 1 CDT vaccine. If you start switching the milk, do it _very_ slowly. It might also be a good idea to add some probiotics to the bottles too. I like the Goats Prefer (powder- NOT paste) brand from TSC. 

Definitely get a fecal on them. They might seem happy, but the move to your farm is still a stress on the kids. Stress can and will cause a parasite/cocci bloom. They are at the prime age for cocci as well. 

These kids aren't getting enough milk and aren't being fed often enough for their weight. Do you have any possible way to add an extra feeding or 2? I know you said your work schedule is affecting when you can or can't feed.

If these were my kids, I'd start upping the amount of milk- slowly of course. I'd be feeding at least 3x a day until you start seeing a consistent weight gain. 

My Nigerian kids eat/drink about a quart of milk at their peak. Goats that are just naturally smaller get a little less. 

How do these kids feel? Can you easily feel their ribs, spine, or hips? 

Again, you are going to have to go very slow in doing all these adjustments. Things like enterotoxemia can be a real risk. 

Are they getting minerals?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 29, 2016)

Because Nigerians are so small and these guys are particularly small, probably from birth weight IDK, feeding then 3-4x day is better than 2 larger feedings. It really can cause stress on their tummies if they are itty bitty.

2 of our goat kids this year were itty bitty... they stayed on bottle for 3months whereas most Nigerians can wean at 8 weeks.

I would not recommend castrating a very tiny goat. I think you said you want to stud him out.

Are the goats parents CAE, CL, & Johnes negative? Brucellosis?
You will need to separate them as you mentioned but once you do neither will have a companion. I may have missed this but do you have any other goats?


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## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

Yeah I'm switching them VERY slowly like over a week or 2. Mama got her CD/T while she was preggo and I'm gonna give them theirs this weekend. My little girl is a fat little thing but the little boy is kinda skinny! I was giving them 8 oz at a time and on my days off I'm feeding them 3 times a day. I only work 2 days in a row then I'm off 2 days and I work 3 days every other weekend. I had another thread because my little girls tummy was bloating when I was feeding them 8 oz and some of the people thought I was feeding too much. Maybe I'll keep feeding him the 8 oz and just feeding her the 6 since the lower amount is helping with  her tummy. The man of the house has the same schedule I do but he gets off earlier so maybe I'll have him feed them then I'll feed them again when I get home so it's back to 3 times a day. They're eating a good amount of hay only a little bit on the floor when I get home of the basket full I feed them.  Found a vet and I'm taking them for fecals and checkups as soon as I can.


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## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

Also I do plan on separating them around 8 weeks as I do want to stud him out and def don't want her preggo yet! So no castrating going on here. And no minerals yet. They seem happy always running around and very vocal lol. I thought they were a little small though! Been keeping a close eye on their poop too. So far just little pellets. Not even the sticky stuff I've read is common with bottle feeding and thank goodness no signs of scours!


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## Southern by choice (Nov 29, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Are the goats parents CAE, CL, & Johnes negative? Brucellosis?
> You will need to separate them as you mentioned but once you do neither will have a companion. I may have missed this but do you have any other goats?


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## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

Not sure about the parents being tested. All I could get from the previous owner was mom was vaccinated and she sold the parents. No other goats yet!  But I plan on lots of supervised play time!


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## Southern by choice (Nov 29, 2016)

You need to look for companions. It just is not the same.
When they are around 8 months you should have them tested especially anything you plan to breed.

Look up CAE, CL, and Johnes.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 29, 2016)

x2

Supervised play doesn't work with goats. It only takes seconds for the deed to be done…


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## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

Thanks for the heads up! I would love to have them some more friends but as much as these babies cost $600 for 2 more (and that's low balling in my area) just isn't in the cards. I'll be on the lookout though for anyone who is selling some for cheap. I found these 2 on Facebook from a breeder who was getting out of the hobby and just needed to find them good homes quick and she gave them to me for free.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 29, 2016)

I'd avoid getting the cheapest goats you can find. That is the best way to bring diseases into your herd.


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## babsbag (Nov 29, 2016)

I wish I could bring my goats to SC and sell them. If I can get $150.00 for an 8 week old kid I'm happy. Mine are mostly Alpines and I sell them with registration papers but none of my goats have been shown. No way could I sell them for $300, that is just crazy for a pet goat.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 29, 2016)

Your best bet is to castrate the male when he is big enough. You can always add in a buck and doe later then you will have the wether for the buck and a doe for the doe.

Cheap often means just that. Not always but usually.
Do you have papers on these goats?
Many wethers go for 75-100 and many are coming from farms that are tested.


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## Latestarter (Nov 29, 2016)

Also, if you don't want to wether the buckling, you can find two inexpensive wethers, you could separate them and put one with each of your present animals so everyone would have a companion and no one can inadvertently get "knocked up".


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## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

That's what I'm saying! And the ones asking $300 in my area are just selling them on Facebook! The breeders near me they for anywhere from $4-500 each! Bucks of course aren't that expensive but they're still around $150.


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## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

The papers situation I found out has been moot. The lady I got them from said their parents were registered which gave me hope since I want to register them but then she said since she sold the parents she didn't have the info and wouldn't give me anymore than that. I reckon that's what I get for free goats can't expect the paperwork to come with them. I reckon weathering the boy is my best bet. I can't breed them together anyway. I just hate to since from what I've read polled males are hot stuff and know he would make pretty babies.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 29, 2016)

BDaY said:


> The papers situation I found out has been moot. The lady I got them from said their parents were registered which gave me hope since I want to register them but then she said since she sold the parents she didn't have the info and wouldn't give me anymore than that. I reckon that's what I get for free goats can't expect the paperwork to come with them. I reckon weathering the boy is my best bet. I can't breed them together anyway. I just hate to since from what I've read polled males are hot stuff and know he would make pretty babies.


It really depends. In the pet world it might be. I don't breed for coat color, eye color, moonspots, or polled. 

I agree with the others, I'd go ahead and wether this guy. You can always get another buck down the road. 

If you plan on studding a buck out, read up on CAE, CL, Johne's, chlamydia, sore mouth, and other diseases. 

Studding a buck to just any doe can have serious consequences.


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## BDaY (Nov 29, 2016)

Yeah that sounds like the best route. What's the best way you guys think is to weather him? Banding? Or there's a piece of equipment I read about that's supposed to be better. It may be a little while before I can as he seems to be a little under weight as I mentioned in my other posts. They're going for fecals and checkups next week to make sure it's not coccidia or any worms.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 29, 2016)

We cut. 
I loathe banding.

Ask your vet at check up.


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## BDaY (Nov 30, 2016)

Next question lol. If a vet neutering is too pricey and we cut how do you keep him still? I read some articles on castration and methods and I'm a medic so I'm not squeamish and pretty comfortable with a scalpel if we go with cutting. How do you get the little guy to sit still long enough to take a scalpel to his most sensitive area? I know I can anesthetize the area but cutting sounds like something that requires sedation and the articles say nothing about suturing the sac after you cut the vas deferens so are you supposed to leave it open? I also looked at using and emasculotome but that seems like there's an opportunity that it won't take.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 30, 2016)

Easier with two people. It takes a few seconds. 
*You do NOT cut the vas deferens. *
The only cut you are making is the bottom of the scrotal sac where it is thick skin.
I suggest you either let the vet show you or you find someone from the extension service etc. that can show you how this is done. 
It is very simple but you need to be taught first. 

It also depends on age of goat.


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## BDaY (Nov 30, 2016)

Th website I looked at said you can either rough cut or pull the testicles from the spermatic cord (which I thought was another name for the vas deferens) it did say not to cut cleanly because it will bleed way too much. The video I just watched showed the guy cutting the cords after pulling them pretty taut and looked like he did the whole thing with a pocket knife and there wasn't ANY bleeding and the goat maybe flinched a tiny bit (the man was good!). Goats are definitely tougher than us humans!


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 30, 2016)

I think 5 weeks old might be a tad bit old to castrate yourself.  Especially if you've never done it.  Of course yours are pretty small, so maybe you can.

We band ours


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## Southern by choice (Nov 30, 2016)

Nigerians we will do up to 12 weeks cutting. Of course that depends on the size of the goat. Teeny tiny goats we wait til closer to 12 weeks.
We do not cut anything but scrotal sac.
We also do not cut any goat under 8 weeks. 

There are times when you tube videos are great but this isn't one of them. Have a vet show you. Even it it is costly it is a longer term investment. 

Since you are brand new to goats it is wise that you learn from those who can teach you. Goats are like any animal they will need vet care. 

Vets hate fixing stuff from clients google searches and things go wrong...


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## frustratedearthmother (Nov 30, 2016)

Love the mug!


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## BDaY (Nov 30, 2016)

I feel you. WebMDitis hits daily and sometimes hourly at work.


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