# New pullets need quarantine advice please :)



## Duckfarmerpa1

Hi!  We are relatively new to chickens but catching on fast. I currently have a healthy flock of 12 hens one rooster..2 17 week old pullets and 5 cockerels.   I won’t bore you with breeds but theyre nice.  Any ways, we have two a joint coops only separatEd by chicken wire so my pullets could do the look but no touch.  That’s been going on since the brooder.
 I knew in the spring I wanted to expand by at least ten...to finally sell eggs.at this point I just give them away.  Yesterday I came across the deal we couldn’t pass up!  We got 4 silver laced Orpington, 5 buff orphington, one EE, one black Orpington, and one Americana.  Beautiful 4 month pullets.  
So, I. Was hoping to move my two pullets into the big coop and put a division  between the coop.  We would keep one cockerel, and put him in with my flock and pray it goes well with my other roo.  He’s calmed down quite a bit.  But... I was on BYC last night...which many of you have...had, not the best experience there.  I have received much flack there in the past for our too many ducks...  Last night it was about a strick one month far away quarantine.  I did know it was a month.  But, I can’t ask my hubby..in December..and, truthfully, I’m too busy also..to build another coop and run.  So..can we kee them in the cages they are in now...put them in rabbit hutches..but put down some wood for warmth...put up a small fenced area for a run...

The huge problem is, my husband thinks all this chicken info and precaution is balogne...how do I convince him to get on board?

And, yes, once again, I was chicken shamed at BYC, and sad for it... Here are some pictures of. The rabbit hutches...two hens...


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## Xerocles

Tell you what. I'll join you on your "walk of shame". Now, yes, technically the bullies on BYC are right. And if I had registered show birds that could sell for $200/pair.....I would use every precaution in the book (in fact, I DO have an isolation coop, over 100 yards from the main run, with separate everything. I was beset by the BYCbullies also). 
But.
Lets be reasonable here. If you know where the new chickens come from, and you saw their environment and it was clean, and the chickens look healthy....I would, and will take the chance. Just realize that you ARE taking a chance, and things COULD go bad. Be prepared for the worst and know you're not going to beat yourself up too much if the worst should happen.
But, to hear the "experts" talk, every chicken in the world (except theirs) is a "typhoid Mary" just waiting to decimate your flock. Fact is, the VAST MAJORITY of us have perfectly, or relatively healthy flocks. Now, I wouldn't buy a chicken from a flea market or someplace like that. Well, I guess I could leave that statement at that. I wouldn't. But what I was about to say I wouldn't do THAT without quarentine.
But I just can't live my life in a state of paranoia. Think it out. Take _reasonable_ precautions, and realize we're dealing with relatively inexpensive stock. Now, if those are your dear darling beloved pets you have there, and you're one of those snowflakes like the lady on BYC who spent $650 on the vet for her unregistered chicken, then by all means, build or have built, a quarentine run.
Bottom line, YOUR decision, your comfort level. Do what you can live with. But I'm with hubby on this one.


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## Baymule

You were chicken shamed over those lovely hutches? What a bunch of witches. In one hand I agree with @Xerocles on the other hand, a 30 day vacation in those lovely rabbit hotels is not going to damage your new chickens nor cause the psychological harm. By all means, isolate them for the required time and you will feel better about it. 

PICTURES!!! I love and adore silver lace pattern!!


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## Baymule

Gheesh people can be so hateful.


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## Xerocles

Baymule said:


> In one hand I agree with @Xerocles


Careful now, @Baymule the last person who agreed with me ended up doing 10-20 in federal max security.   
I just see things differently than many people today, in our sterilized, safe, litigious society. When people ask for advice, like @Duckfarmerpa1 or even like me, they need to hear the "safe" way to do it. But there's safe and then there's reasonable. Safe is what she received on BYC. But I find it helps to hear BOTH sides and make up our own minds at our own comfort levels. If all we ever hear is safe, we end up like Ralphie on "A Christmas Story" bundled up so safe that we can't enjoy ourselves.
Duckfarmer, I apologize for hi-jacking your post for this, but I just wanted everyone to be sure of WHY I said the things I said.


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## Hens and Roos

Baymule said:


> You were chicken shamed over those lovely hutches? What a bunch of witches. In one hand I agree with @Xerocles on the other hand, a 30 day vacation in those lovely rabbit hotels is not going to damage your new chickens nor cause the psychological harm. By all means, isolate them for the required time and you will feel better about it.
> 
> PICTURES!!! I love and adore silver lace pattern!!



I agree with @Baymule give them a 30 day vacation in the rabbit hotels just to be on the safe side!


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## animalmom

What's wrong with the rabbit cages?  I've put injured chickens in empty rabbit cages with rabbits in the next cage and have had no problems.

Look, I understand a 30 day quarantine and do so for new stock like goat or rabbit... but come on, it is just a chicken.  Of course my hens would get their feathers ruffled if they heard me say that.

Some folks take bio-security to a higher level than I do.  Yes I have my "poo shoes" that I wear when I go into any pen and yes I take them off as soon as I come in so that I'm not tracking crap, literally, through the house.  Do I have separate tools for gardening, animal care and human care?  You double betcha I do.  If you want to get on my bad side just take a kitchen utensil and use it in the barn.  What in the name of goathood do you think bleach bottles are for?  The top of bleach bottles make the best funnels and the bottom works well for a temporary feed dish (depending on the animal).  Not to mention the gallon jugs of vinegar when empty make a great rabbit hay rack.

One of my mother's favorite sayings was "My house is clean enough to be healthy and dirty enough to be happy."  Kind of sums it up for me.

Off rant, returning to previously scheduled broadcasting.


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## Bruce

The biggest fear I know of when bringing birds into your flock is Marek's because once it is in your soil it is there pretty much forever and all future chickens will be exposed. Some birds will be relatively resistant, many will die. If you know Microchick on BYC she's had to deal with this. Pretty heartbreaking to watch your flock drop one bird at a time. I think pretty much any other transmittable chicken disease can be treated. 

I've only gotten day olds from major hatcheries so I don't have concerns about putting them in a brooder in the coop with the older girls. Like @Xerocles, I wouldn't buy a chicken at a swap, that seems like Russian Roulette to me. But if you know where these girls came from is clean, I mean KNOW, as he stated, not just have an address to pick them up, I might isolate near the existing flock as you have suggested. Otherwise I think the rabbit hutches a good distance from the current flock would be in order. I have several girls that spend a week a few times a year in a broody buster about the same size as those cages. Your biggest problem will be keeping unfrozen water available. 

And I apologize for whoever was rude or condescending on BYC. Sadly I know several people who have bailed on that site for that very reason. I don't know why people can't give constructive criticism rather than dumping on someone who poses a question.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Xerocles said:


> Careful now, @Baymule the last person who agreed with me ended up doing 10-20 in federal max security.
> I just see things differently than many people today, in our sterilized, safe, litigious society. When people ask for advice, like @Duckfarmerpa1 or even like me, they need to hear the "safe" way to do it. But there's safe and then there's reasonable. Safe is what she received on BYC. But I find it helps to hear BOTH sides and make up our own minds at our own comfort levels. If all we ever hear is safe, we end up like Ralphie on "A Christmas Story" bundled up so safe that we can't enjoy ourselves.
> Duckfarmer, I apologize for hi-jacking your post for this, but I just wanted everyone to be sure of WHY I said the things I said.


You dint hijack...  as I said in your thread...that’s what these things are for...we all need to speak up and help each other!  I wouldn’t ask if I truly didn’t want everyones two cents!!


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## Duckfarmerpa1

animalmom said:


> What's wrong with the rabbit cages?  I've put injured chickens in empty rabbit cages with rabbits in the next cage and have had no problems.
> 
> Look, I understand a 30 day quarantine and do so for new stock like goat or rabbit... but come on, it is just a chicken.  Of course my hens would get their feathers ruffled if they heard me say that.
> 
> Some folks take bio-security to a higher level than I do.  Yes I have my "poo shoes" that I wear when I go into any pen and yes I take them off as soon as I come in so that I'm not tracking crap, literally, through the house.  Do I have separate tools for gardening, animal care and human care?  You double betcha I do.  If you want to get on my bad side just take a kitchen utensil and use it in the barn.  What in the name of goathood do you think bleach bottles are for?  The top of bleach bottles make the best funnels and the bottom works well for a temporary feed dish (depending on the animal).  Not to mention the gallon jugs of vinegar when empty make a great rabbit hay rack.
> 
> One of my mother's favorite sayings was "My house is clean enough to be healthy and dirty enough to be happy."  Kind of sums it up for me.
> 
> Off rant, returning to previously scheduled broadcasting.


Wow..that was GREAT!  My husband would be sooo happy to hear that I’m speaking to relaxEd farmers!  Everyone I talk to wants me to build Fort Knox. And..the thing is..I’ve listened.  We went out and built another coop.  But we didn’t put it so far away because our free range cockerels were all over the place while building.  The place I thought we could put it,..and we h chicken tractors that we were going to cut and drill together for runs..but, I was afraid it would attract the free rangers that way.  It’s further than I want them..but it was a spot we had electrical outlets for their water.  Sooo we ended up putting the NEW coop over by the the other two.  It’s not nice, but it’ll do for Now, until spring when we rebuild it alllll. So...they will probably end up being able to free range  will the younger birds sooner than they should.  My husband said he’s willing to take the risk.  I started them on dewormEr today.  They are very gentle birds.   Gorgeous!  We didn’t build nest boxes but they are only about 14 weeks old so we have time.  We got a horrible storm tod.  First it was pouring and then it turned into that heavy wet snow..getting about 5”. My hubby plows for our rental properties.  We have 35 units, so he’ll be busy in the morning. 

Thanks soo much everyone for all the tips..and for not scolding me for jumping into more birds.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Bruce said:


> The biggest fear I know of when bringing birds into your flock is Marek's because once it is in your soil it is there pretty much forever and all future chickens will be exposed. Some birds will be relatively resistant, many will die. If you know Microchick on BYC she's had to deal with this. Pretty heartbreaking to watch your flock drop one bird at a time. I think pretty much any other transmittable chicken disease can be treated.
> 
> I've only gotten day olds from major hatcheries so I don't have concerns about putting them in a brooder in the coop with the older girls. Like @Xerocles, I wouldn't buy a chicken at a swap, that seems like Russian Roulette to me. But if you know where these girls came from is clean, I mean KNOW, as he stated, not just have an address to pick them up, I might isolate near the existing flock as you have suggested. Otherwise I think the rabbit hutches a good distance from the current flock would be in order. I have several girls that spend a week a few times a year in a broody buster about the same size as those cages. Your biggest problem will be keeping unfrozen water available.
> 
> And I apologize for whoever was rude or condescending on BYC. Sadly I know several people who have bailed on that site for that very reason. I don't know why people can't give constructive criticism rather than dumping on someone who poses a question.


Thank you so much for you nice words....the birds are very healthy... I believe.   I do know of Merck’s and... I would be heartbroken.  We built a coop larger than the hutches and put it by the others but hopefully the barriers are good enough to be safe.  Its not 100 feet but the other option was calling my young flock too far from where I felt they were safe...I’m praying it all works out.  I have my Corid on hand just in case anyone even looks sick.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Hens and Roos said:


> I agree with @Baymule give them a 30 day vacation in the rabbit hotels just to be on the safe side!


They’re not great pictures but the silver laced blend in with the background...next time 











Xerocles said:


> Tell you what. I'll join you on your "walk of shame". Now, yes, technically the bullies on BYC are right. And if I had registered show birds that could sell for $200/pair.....I would use every precaution in the book (in fact, I DO have an isolation coop, over 100 yards from the main run, with separate everything. I was beset by the BYCbullies also).
> But.
> Lets be reasonable here. If you know where the new chickens come from, and you saw their environment and it was clean, and the chickens look healthy....I would, and will take the chance. Just realize that you ARE taking a chance, and things COULD go bad. Be prepared for the worst and know you're not going to beat yourself up too much if the worst should happen.
> But, to hear the "experts" talk, every chicken in the world (except theirs) is a "typhoid Mary" just waiting to decimate your flock. Fact is, the VAST MAJORITY of us have perfectly, or relatively healthy flocks. Now, I wouldn't buy a chicken from a flea market or someplace like that. Well, I guess I could leave that statement at that. I wouldn't. But what I was about to say I wouldn't do THAT without quarentine.
> But I just can't live my life in a state of paranoia. Think it out. Take _reasonable_ precautions, and realize we're dealing with relatively inexpensive stock. Now, if those are your dear darling beloved pets you have there, and you're one of those snowflakes like the lady on BYC who spent $650 on the vet for her unregistered chicken, then by all means, build or have built, a quarentine run.
> Bottom line, YOUR decision, your comfort level. Do what you can live with. But I'm with hubby on this one.


nicely put!  He’ll love that!  I was doing my barn work till past 10:30ish..and he was building a coop!  What a dear!  It’s not pretty, but it has roosts. Ventilation....enough square footage...so, I think it’ll do...it’s closer than we wanted...do to electrical outlets....and the free rangers.  I wanted to put it on the other side of the shed...it’s across the driveway, etc...but the cockerels made their way over, and well... I don’t want them over there..so we putt it a little closer than I wanted..near the other coops..but there’s a barrier..so..I’m hoping that helps?  Praying...I dosed them with dewormer... I use herbal...they did too...I realize it’s sometimes ot as effective but I was nervous and just put a scoop in the feed and figured I run a fecal float in a few days.  Ugh?


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## B&B Happy goats

We are enablers....nice to have you join us


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## Baymule

We are enablers, more is always better! I thought it was the golden standard to get animals first, then figure out what to do with them. You sound pretty darn organized to me!


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## Xerocles

Terrible looking chickens and I can tell from the picture that they're disease infested.
So, in the name of chicken neighborliness, I'll rush right over and take them off your hands.
Good looking chickens. Congratulations....and quit worrying so much.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Baymule said:


> We are enablers, more is always better! I thought it was the golden standard to get animals first, then figure out what to do with them. You sound pretty darn organized to me!


Lol...that is sooo funny..you golden standard!  The organized part too.  My hubby just wishes I would quit reading the internet....  poor guy, he just wants to watch some racing .


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## Bruce

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Thanks soo much everyone for all the tips..and for not scolding me for jumping into more birds.


Chicken math, it happens!! I started with 12 in 2012, got more 4 times now. Had some losses so the current total is 23 including 3 of the 2012 girls. I think thereabouts has to be my max, I have a hard time counting that many to make sure they are all in at night! It would be helpful if they would all line up, maybe even count off, but they don't.

I agree, those birds look darn healthy from the pictures. Clear eyes, shiny feathers.


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## Xerocles

@Duckfarmerpa1 since you're already a member of BYC (and anyone else who would like an appropriate chuckle), may I suggest you read "Chicken Math 101 - with Quiz." on their site. Are you really sure you have as many chickens as you think? Maybe not. It's worth reading.😂


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Bruce said:


> Chicken math, it happens!! I started with 12 in 2012, got more 4 times now. Had some losses so the current total is 23 including 3 of the 2012 girls. I think thereabouts has to be my max, I have a hard time counting that many to make sure they are all in at night! It would be helpful if they would all line up, maybe even count off, but they don't.
> 
> I agree, those birds look darn healthy from the pictures. Clear eyes, shiny feathers.


Yeah, and I looked them over for lice pretty good..they have great temperments..so calm.  That’s nice.  So, hopefully all goes well.  Typically with me..it’s ducks that multiply, but, this time.....   Just think of all the loot I’ll make once they start poppinout the eggs!


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Xerocles said:


> @Duckfarmerpa1 since you're already a member of BYC (and anyone else who would like an appropriate chuckle), may I suggest you read "Chicken Math 101 - with Quiz." on their site. Are you really sure you have as many chickens as you think? Maybe not. It's worth reading.😂


I read that when I first joined..funny..
duck math got ahold of me..one for me, one for my dog, one for aunt Helen, one for good measure.might as well get ten more sincere we already have, etc..etc...  that’s what happened yester..we went to buy ten pullets...but, then Chris said...we’ll, since were here...we might as well get two more....


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## Beekissed

I don't do quarantines and I find that the way most people do them is pretty useless anyway, but it makes them feel like they are doing something, so I guess they serve their purpose in that way....but it does next to nothing for the flocks.  

Unless you can see visible symptoms of some disease process, it's likely your birds~if they have any sickness at all~are carriers and you wouldn't catch it in a quarantine situation anyway.   I've never heard of anyone quarantining a bird or birds and actually isolating an illness in that manner before it entered their flock...maybe external parasites can be caught that way, but not anything internal  .  

I don't do biosecurity at all, as it too is pretty useless.   We aren't running commercial flocks and, even if we were, you'll find that all their biosecurity measures are pretty much useless too.....it's the flocks that have all that hoodoo going on which are the very ones spreading diseases to all and sundry through the vectors that come through the commercial batteries and meat operations.  

It's an overused term that has very little true meaning, as it's impossible to secure any animal population against airborne and vector born diseases.  

So, no worries....put those birds together and concentrate on building immune systems and healthy soils instead of thinking you can keep your animals in some kind of germ free bubble.  BYC has many "chicken experts"....usually folks who have had chickens for a small hand full of years and read some books by other self proclaimed experts who have done the same.   All those I consider actual experienced flock owners~had chickens for 20-50 yrs or more~ left that site many years ago and would never return.  

A yearly cull for laying each spring will net you more in the way of eliminating disease and parasites in your flock anyway, so tell hubby he's right....this time.  LOL


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## Xerocles

Beekissed said:


> I don't do quarantines and I find that the way most people do them is pretty useless anyway, but it makes them feel like they are doing something, so I guess they serve their purpose in that way....but it does next to nothing for the flocks.
> 
> Unless you can see visible symptoms of some disease process, it's likely your birds~if they have any sickness at all~are carriers and you wouldn't catch it in a quarantine situation anyway.   I've never heard of anyone quarantining a bird or birds and actually isolating an illness in that manner before it entered their flock...maybe external parasites can be caught that way, but not anything internal  .
> 
> I don't do biosecurity at all, as it too is pretty useless.   We aren't running commercial flocks and, even if we were, you'll find that all their biosecurity measures are pretty much useless too.....it's the flocks that have all that hoodoo going on which are the very ones spreading diseases to all and sundry through the vectors that come through the commercial batteries and meat operations.
> 
> It's an overused term that has very little true meaning, as it's impossible to secure any animal population against airborne and vector born diseases.
> 
> So, no worries....put those birds together and concentrate on building immune systems and healthy soils instead of thinking you can keep your animals in some kind of germ free bubble.  BYC has many "chicken experts"....usually folks who have had chickens for a small hand full of years and read some books by other self proclaimed experts who have done the same.   All those I consider actual experienced flock owners~had chickens for 20-50 yrs or more~ left that site many years ago and would never return.
> 
> A yearly cull for laying each spring will net you more in the way of eliminating disease and parasites in your flock anyway, so tell hubby he's right....this time.  LOL


AMEN! TELL IT! And the truth shall set you free.


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## Baymule

Give your husband a rest. Tell him you want a Mikita cordless skill saw, with extra battery, cordless drill, with extra battery, 5 pound boxes of deck screws in 2", 3" and 4" for Christmas. A stack of 2x4's, wire, speed square, tape measure and sharpie and you'll be all set. Go make some noise and have a good time.


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## Xerocles

Baymule said:


> Give your husband a rest. Tell him you want a Mikita cordless skill saw, with extra battery, cordless drill, with extra battery, 5 pound boxes of deck screws in 2", 3" and 4" for Christmas. A stack of 2x4's, wire, speed square, tape measure and sharpie and you'll be all set. Go make some noise and have a good time.


And give HIM tickets to a racetrack near you (is Pocano near you?)


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## Sheepshape

Just caught up with this thread, and will throw in my 'two penn'orth' (can never resist an idiom).
Quarantine rules are there for a purpose. They are set by those with the highest degree of knowledge, and should be read. However, sometimes it seems to me that those who wrote them did so to cover their own Super-Specialists a$$es. They will refer to the longest ever recorded incubation period for any infection and add on several more days for good measure. They also suggest that you pretty well need to go through a process of 'decontamination' similar to that in a nuclear accident each and every time that you visit the new arrivals. The quarantine rules, therefore, can be impracticable in a small-scale setting.
So....imported stock? Well, do you know who you are buying off, or they from a reputable and registered stock breeders who are not going to damage their reputation by selling you a couple of disease riddled birds/animals?. Maybe the rules can be bent. Keeping them separate for a day or two if they have been sold from a livestock event makes sense.....there are lots of animals/birds there and some of the breeders may not be so reputable.
New stock can need to be introduced carefully to old stock to avoid territorial disputes, so letting the 'residents' see and smell the 'newcomers' from behind appropriate wire for a few days may well be the way to go.
Quarantine for all stock? Not in my book. Every year I borrow rams from a neighbour (never need to borrow roosters, I breed too many of them!), and they go straight to girls. I know he keeps his animals to very high standards and would never  send a 'dodgy' ram. 
So, my opinion ? Look at the quarantine suggestions and then consider if it should apply to your purchase in this instance.
Oh, and remember that BYC can be something of a Haughty Clique who seem  to have as a 'mission statement' the wilful shaming of us simple souls in order to further refine their shiny  clique.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Baymule said:


> Give your husband a rest. Tell him you want a Mikita cordless skill saw, with extra battery, cordless drill, with extra battery, 5 pound boxes of deck screws in 2", 3" and 4" for Christmas. A stack of 2x4's, wire, speed square, tape measure and sharpie and you'll be all set. Go make some noise and have a good time.


Oh he lets me do everything except the saws...I even used the nail guns when we built our last barn..and he was a contractor so he has the good stuff...it was the biggest gun and I loved it!  But the table saw, band saw...I don’t know.  I do use the saw-all. howeve you spell it...! . Power tools are fun


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## Baymule

A contractor husband! My husband thinks duct tape fixes everything. I have the things I need to properly attach the wire racks to the back of the pantry door, but he attacked it first with tape-lots of tape. I left it there. Sometimes I have to let him be the hero, even though I hate looking at it. LOL I'm no carpenter, but I manage to make what I picture in my head, happen. He thinks I am a genius. I'm not, I just don't back down from anything. We did hire a contractor to build our 12'x54' screened porch, that was above my pay grade. We also hired the 36'x36' barn built, but I had all the materials. 

Learn how to use the saws, Power tools rock!


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## B&B Happy goats

The only power tool I don't  like to use is the vacuum cleaner, DH does that one  for me


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## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> My husband thinks duct tape fixes everything.


And zip ties!  Cant forget zip ties - they hold everything that duct tape doesn't, lol!


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## Sheepshape

frustratedearthmother said:


> And zip ties! Cant forget zip ties - they hold everything that duct tape doesn't, lol!


Over here it's orange string....the plastic stuff that circles bales of silage, straw etc. It's used to hold fences together, hang gates, make temporary harnesses and even to hold trousers up. Due to environmental concerns with plastic, the orange string will be replaced by hemp/sisal etc. Somehow, it won't look quite the same holding up a pair of pants......

My least favourite tool? Probably sharp knives as I'm a menace with them....or maybe anything that's twee in the kitchen...got it, kitchen blow torches......


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Baymule said:


> A contractor husband! My husband thinks duct tape fixes everything. I have the things I need to properly attach the wire racks to the back of the pantry door, but he attacked it first with tape-lots of tape. I left it there. Sometimes I have to let him be the hero, even though I hate looking at it. LOL I'm no carpenter, but I manage to make what I picture in my head, happen. He thinks I am a genius. I'm not, I just don't back down from anything. We did hire a contractor to build our 12'x54' screened porch, that was above my pay grade. We also hired the 36'x36' barn built, but I had all the materials.
> 
> Learn how to use the saws, Power tools rock!


Yes, he’s great...I can just give a hint of what I need and he can whip it up like nothing.  He has so many tricks it’s crazy.  He retired young so now he’s stuck with me running around with projects...lol.  I would do the saws...but...I have seizures...not for more than a year... But he won’t let me use a saw...so, he has to do my bidding.  That’s very nice of you to leave the tape up in your cabinet...that might drive me crazy..


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## farmerjan

I'm going to add in my 2 cents.  I have purebred chickens.  Have shown off and on for 40 + years.  I have raised laying hens, free range on pasture, simple sex-links in different colors/breed combinations.  I am lucky to have connections with a couple of commercial "concentration camp"  broiler poultry farmers.  I get the  "left-behinds" when the birds go out every 45 +/- days and bring them home and fatten them up on dirt as opposed to the confined enclosed houses they are raised in.

There are diseases that chickens get.  I had a bout with Mareks one time years ago.  It sucks.  BUT, if you are getting the birds from someone who has decent looking birds, if you take the time to look them over and check for external parasites, and they are reasonably clean, if their eyes look bright and they aren't droopy or raspy, then bringing them home, housing them in whatever you have available, that gives them some room and reasonable accommodations,  separate from your existing birds for a few days or a few weeks.... then you should be fairly safe.
Letting them out to get some of the "germs" that already exist in/on your soil/grass etc is a good way to get some exposure to and develop some immunity to what is existing.  I find that more than the "horrible disease exposure" is the co-mingling of birds.  There are always bullies in chicken flocks.  Different breeds have different temperments.  Different ages  can cause some concern when co-mingling. 

Anyone who spends $650 on a chicken is out of their mind.  Sorry if that offends anyone.  There are more chickens.  I would hesitate to spend that on one of our cows/bulls etc.  I cannot justify spending more on an animal than it is worth, in MOST cases.   There are cows that I have put down, that have been a favored animal,  and just "swallowed" the salvage value rather than ship it to market.  But, you have to be reasonable and accept the fact that they are animals..... they do not have the same value of a human life. 

Do reasonable precautions.  Take good care of them.  Address their needs and provide as safe and healthy an environment for them that you can.

I also hate to tell you but you do not have any "silver laced orpingtons".... The blueish looking ones are just that , blue orpingtons.  They will be that slatey blue color with darker blue/black edging on the feathers.  Silver laced is basically a white feather with a black edging.  There are silver laced wyandottes, silver laced cochins,  silver sebrights and silver polish which are basically the same pattern.   Orpingtons only come in white, black, buff and blue.  They may be mixed with something but what you have definitely are not silver laced anything.   NOT bad looking birds, don't get me wrong.  But this is what is the matter with all these "EXPERTS" because they don't really know what the true breeds are, or their characteristics.  I am not a fanatical show/purebred person.  But I like a breed to be what it is, and things like these "easter eggers" gets on my nerves, because they are also one of those crossbreds that  get touted as a "breed" when they are  not.  Great for a home laying flock, but they are just a crossbred that has the blue/green egg laying gene.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Sheepshape said:


> Over here it's orange string....the plastic stuff that circles bales of silage, straw etc. It's used to hold fences together, hang gates, make temporary harnesses and even to hold trousers up. Due to environmental concerns with plastic, the orange string will be replaced by hemp/sisal etc. Somehow, it won't look quite the same holding up a pair of pants......
> 
> My least favourite tool? Probably sharp knives as I'm a menace with them....or maybe anything that's twee in the kitchen...got it, kitchen blow torches......


Oh my gosh,,, I thought we were the only weird ones saving all those dumb strings off my hay!!  I DO use it for everything!  It was such a pain the neck at first...now I never want to throw it away!
As for the torch....we have one of those real ones..hooked up to the propa tank and you hold it with a 4’ rod...well i got to use it for the first time this summer when we built our ducks a floating duck house for the middle of the pond.  I was heating up the rubber roofing..then decided to go ahead and torch in the wood grain...it was a blast!  Seriously..those power tools are fun!  Then..when we went to launch the Duck house it was tricky, because it is an S shaped pond for our last name so we had yet, another C&D adventure


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> My husband thinks duct tape fixes everything.


Used to be duct tape and baling wire. But bales are now done with twine. Really not the best for holding up the muffler! 

While visiting with my dad last month we talked about the early farming days when they lived in Lancaster, CA back in the late '30s, early 40's. Seems his job was to follow the horse drawn baler and twist the wires before the bales were released. 



farmerjan said:


> I cannot justify spending more on an animal than it is worth, in MOST cases.


Yep, though I guess an animal, like anything, is worth what someone is willing to pay. It would be hard for me to justify taking a chicken that cost $3.25 as a day old chick to a vet at any point in its life. However we've spent a ton of money on house cats that developed curable or treatable diseases.


----------



## thistlebloom

I miss baling wire. It was at least less visible when you fixed fences with it. Although I do appreciate the hay farmer I buy from that uses black twine. It is a little more elegant than bright orange or the ubiquitous tarp blue color, lol. And twine is a lot better at mending the horses hay nets when they bite big holes in them. Wire just wouldn't work the same.


----------



## thistlebloom

Cool floating duck house @Duckfarmerpa1 !


----------



## Baymule

I have cow panel pens put together with hog rings, hay twine, baling wire, and clips. I use hay twine in the garden for trellis for climbing bens. Oh, and zip ties too. Love those things.


----------



## thistlebloom

Zip ties hold my world together. Our CP hay shed is completely zipped. 
How do you have baling wire Bay? I didn't think anybody baled with that anymore. I haven't seen it for years.


----------



## Baymule

We bought some square bales at the feed store that had baling wire. I carefully hoarded it...….. LOL


----------



## Bruce

Bay is the master (mistress??) of reuse/repurpose!


----------



## farmerjan

Baling wire is still popular in parts of Canada, and some other places you will occasionally find it.  The balers are harder to maintain, and the cost of the wire had gotten prohibitive.  When I was a kid, we would get "sq bales" with wire and they were HEAVY, not wet but just packed tight.  Most came out of Canada.... I lived in CT at the time.  A typical sq bale would weigh 70-90 lbs and today one of that "size" will weigh 45-60 lbs.  It also seemed that it used to be easier to make hay "dry" and the weather today makes it more difficult to get the hay as dry as it should be.  So they are not packed as tight, and so much is rolled due to lack of help.  Plus, "back then" , there were all kinds of kids, young guys, that were eager to work hard physically and then be able to brag about their day of helping make hay and how heavy the bales were and how many they helped make that day.  Today, they don't want to even get out in the heat and work up a sweat, let alone build some real muscle.  Rather do that in an air-conditioned gym...

Twine is easier to work with, it can be cut with a pocket knife, and is more easily disposed of. Also, the bales will be lighter and are not as tightly packed.....yet usually cost the same or more of comparable wire bales.  
And yep @Bruce , we held up many a muffler with baling wire;   and fixed fences and held gates to posts and any number of things.  
We don't use the plastic twine, we use the "old fashioned sisal"  twine.  It will rot and you don't have to worry about the calves eating it and it getting into a wad in their rumen and blocking everything up.  Better for the environment.  I HATE having to deal with the plastic twine.  Bad enough to have the net wrap for the one round baler and have all that plastic waste.  We don't use it alot, but sometimes we have people who want hay with that.  It does help shed the water better and will keep a "falling apart" bale together to handle more easily.....


----------



## thistlebloom

Here in the west the sq bales (2 string) I get run an average of 70-80 pounds. That's grass mix, alfalfa is always heavier. 
When we lived in SoCal the alfalfa hay that came from the Imperial Valley (3 wire bales) ran 100-120 pounds. Those are exhausting to stack.

@farmerjan  I always enjoy your posts. You are so knowledgeable!


----------



## farmerjan

@thistlebloom , you are fortunate to live out there as far as the hay situation, I think.  You have pretty good drying conditions don't you?   Like real low humidity, and lots of sunny days in a row?   The weather has a big effect on the hay making here.  There are next to no farmers that irrigate anything here EXCEPT the dairy farmers that irrigate corn for making silage.  And some will irrigate alfalfa but it is nearly all chopped for haylage since it will have a very good protein content and it can get made with a short "drying window" since it doesn't need to be "dry" like hay.   Are you in an area where there is much irrigation for hay crops?  It is so much easier to control the "finished product" if you can water it when and how much it needs..... not when Mother Nature decides to / or not to , water it.
We occasionally got a few 3 wire bales from Canada, and you are right.  They were so heavy, you were exhausted from having to buck them off the trucks and into a haymow. 

Thank you for the compliment.  I think that is is mostly just the school of experience, not really being that smart.  He//, if I was so smart, I would be a rich "gentleman farmer" !!!!!;  not a poor working wornout farmer


----------



## farmerjan

"GentleWOMAN farmer ????? Guess that is more proper????  Oh what the he//,  no one  ever accused me of being politically correct or proper;  why start now?


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

farmerjan said:


> I'm going to add in my 2 cents.  I have purebred chickens.  Have shown off and on for 40 + years.  I have raised laying hens, free range on pasture, simple sex-links in different colors/breed combinations.  I am lucky to have connections with a couple of commercial "concentration camp"  broiler poultry farmers.  I get the  "left-behinds" when the birds go out every 45 +/- days and bring them home and fatten them up on dirt as opposed to the confined enclosed houses they are raised in.
> 
> There are diseases that chickens get.  I had a bout with Mareks one time years ago.  It sucks.  BUT, if you are getting the birds from someone who has decent looking birds, if you take the time to look them over and check for external parasites, and they are reasonably clean, if their eyes look bright and they aren't droopy or raspy, then bringing them home, housing them in whatever you have available, that gives them some room and reasonable accommodations,  separate from your existing birds for a few days or a few weeks.... then you should be fairly safe.
> Letting them out to get some of the "germs" that already exist in/on your soil/grass etc is a good way to get some exposure to and develop some immunity to what is existing.  I find that more than the "horrible disease exposure" is the co-mingling of birds.  There are always bullies in chicken flocks.  Different breeds have different temperments.  Different ages  can cause some concern when co-mingling.
> 
> Anyone who spends $650 on a chicken is out of their mind.  Sorry if that offends anyone.  There are more chickens.  I would hesitate to spend that on one of our cows/bulls etc.  I cannot justify spending more on an animal than it is worth, in MOST cases.   There are cows that I have put down, that have been a favored animal,  and just "swallowed" the salvage value rather than ship it to market.  But, you have to be reasonable and accept the fact that they are animals..... they do not have the same value of a human life.
> 
> Do reasonable precautions.  Take good care of them.  Address their needs and provide as safe and healthy an environment for them that you can.
> 
> I also hate to tell you but you do not have any "silver laced orpingtons".... The blueish looking ones are just that , blue orpingtons.  They will be that slatey blue color with darker blue/black edging on the feathers.  Silver laced is basically a white feather with a black edging.  There are silver laced wyandottes, silver laced cochins,  silver sebrights and silver polish which are basically the same pattern.   Orpingtons only come in white, black, buff and blue.  They may be mixed with something but what you have definitely are not silver laced anything.   NOT bad looking birds, don't get me wrong.  But this is what is the matter with all these "EXPERTS" because they don't really know what the true breeds are, or their characteristics.  I am not a fanatical show/purebred person.  But I like a breed to be what it is, and things like these "easter eggers" gets on my nerves, because they are also one of those crossbreds that  get touted as a "breed" when they are  not.  Great for a home laying flock, but they are just a crossbred that has the blue/green egg laying gene.


I. Wondered my my farmer friend at a party tonight looked ar funny when I called them silver orbs...I get it...they’re blue!


----------



## thistlebloom

@farmerjan , yes, we have a very arid climate, generally. This year was a difficult one for hay farmers as we had a lot of summer rain, which is very unusual for us. Trying to time the cutting to allow for enough dry days before baling was a crapshoot.
I go in with a lot of neighbors and purchase loads from a farmer up near Canada and he was able to get his hay all cut and baled with no rain damage, which was pretty remarkable. 
Mostly only alfalfa is irrigated around here, to my knowledge. More and more farmers are making the huge squares since they are more cost effective, and many are shipping them to Japan. It's getting tough to find small squares. I can't use big sq or big rounds as I don't have a big storage area or a tractor to handle them.

Don't undersell your smarts, you are rich in knowledge and common sense. I guess it's too bad you can't take it to the bank, but you are certainly enriching a lot of peoples lives by sharing.


----------



## Sheepshape

thistlebloom said:


> I didn't think anybody baled with that anymor


You should come to Wales.....time warp....and we don't even speak English all of the time.



Baymule said:


> We bought some square bales at the feed store that had baling wire. I carefully hoarded it...….. LOL


I should think so, too. I have old feed bags full of knotty, useless old bits of orange string which i jealously guard from being disposed of.......'might come in useful', needs to be re-cycled/re-used, you never know when your works pants will need to be reinforced' etc etc.

I love that floating duck house.....bet the drakes do, too.

One of my 'not so breed standard' ewes had a trip to the vet yesterday. I found her with blood pouring from somewhere around her eye and thought she had had a dog attack.Long story short, she had a single large gash over her eye....no signs of ripping etc or teeth marks. That could cost a bit being a Sunday, but she was areal trooper about the whole thing.Over here a ewe of her type would probably only realise about £40 at market....but she is probably in lamb.

Well, one thing is certain. The 'output' of our animals is an excellent product. Giant vegetables....


----------



## thistlebloom

Sheepshape said:


> You should come to Wales.....time warp....and we don't even speak English all of the time.



 I'd love it!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

farmerjan said:


> Baling wire is still popular in parts of Canada, and some other places you will occasionally find it.  The balers are harder to maintain, and the cost of the wire had gotten prohibitive.  When I was a kid, we would get "sq bales" with wire and they were HEAVY, not wet but just packed tight.  Most came out of Canada.... I lived in CT at the time.  A typical sq bale would weigh 70-90 lbs and today one of that "size" will weigh 45-60 lbs.  It also seemed that it used to be easier to make hay "dry" and the weather today makes it more difficult to get the hay as dry as it should be.  So they are not packed as tight, and so much is rolled due to lack of help.  Plus, "back then" , there were all kinds of kids, young guys, that were eager to work hard physically and then be able to brag about their day of helping make hay and how heavy the bales were and how many they helped make that day.  Today, they don't want to even get out in the heat and work up a sweat, let alone build some real muscle.  Rather do that in an air-conditioned gym...
> 
> Twine is easier to work with, it can be cut with a pocket knife, and is more easily disposed of. Also, the bales will be lighter and are not as tightly packed.....yet usually cost the same or more of comparable wire bales.
> And yep @Bruce , we held up many a muffler with baling wire;   and fixed fences and held gates to posts and any number of things.
> We don't use the plastic twine, we use the "old fashioned sisal"  twine.  It will rot and you don't have to worry about the calves eating it and it getting into a wad in their rumen and blocking everything up.  Better for the environment.  I HATE having to deal with the plastic twine.  Bad enough to have the net wrap for the one round baler and have all that plastic waste.  We don't use it alot, but sometimes we have people who want hay with that.  It does help shed the water better and will keep a "falling apart" bale together to handle more easily.....


It’s soooo funny that you talk about the people working out...my son..is an exercise fanatic.  He’s is the stren and conditioning coach for SlippRey Rock University...he has his own website for training people..he just ran 50 miles in a day and is training for his next ultra marat...100  Miles....BUT...he’s too busy to do farm work!!!  Lol drives my hubby nuts!!  Appare he woulent know how much he’s actually lifting...  I tell hi to stick it in his ear!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

thistlebloom said:


> Here in the west the sq bales (2 string) I get run an average of 70-80 pounds. That's grass mix, alfalfa is always heavier.
> When we lived in SoCal the alfalfa hay that came from the Imperial Valley (3 wire bales) ran 100-120 pounds. Those are exhausting to stack.
> 
> @farmerjan  I always enjoy your posts. You are so knowledgeable!


So...can I be so blunt as to ask...how much is alfalfa hay?  It is hard to get around here...we have to drive 63 miles one way and it’s $9. Is that normal?  We’re not thrilled. Plus..it’s no way that heavy..bulky...mayby 40-50


----------



## thistlebloom

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> So...can I be so blunt as to ask...how much is alfalfa hay?  It is hard to get around here...we have to drive 63 miles one way and it’s $9. Is that normal?  We’re not thrilled. Plus..it’s no way that heavy..bulky...mayby 40-50



It would vary according to your region. If I had to buy alfalfa from a feed store it would be between $10 and $12. I buy 4 tons of alfalfa (and 6 tons of grass mix) every summer from a hay farmer. I don't remember exactly what the alf ran per bale this year, but it was probably between $7and $8/bale. These are about 80/85 pounders. Do you think you could buy from a farmer? It's usually much cheaper.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

thistlebloom said:


> It would vary according to your region. If I had to buy alfalfa from a feed store it would be between $10 and $12. I buy 4 tons of alfalfa (and 6 tons of grass mix) every summer from a hay farmer. I don't remember exactly what the alf ran per bale this year, but it was probably between $7and $8/bale. These are about 80/85 pounders. Do you think you could buy from a farmer? It's usually much cheaper.


We are buying from a farmer.  The feed stores only sell straw.  People don’t really have goats..like, my hubby’s sister has a store that sells feed..so I went and asked for goat feed..it was sweet feed.  I called..only thing they carry,  same all around.  I found a place that orders pellets just for me.  Crazy.


----------



## thistlebloom

Wow. That's just pitiful. I wonder why that is?


----------



## farmerjan

Most feed stores that do  not have very many in the area that want a certain type feed, do not keep it in stock because they have to order a minimum amount.... or in the case of a mill than makes their own, have to make a minimum amount.  If it is not sold in a reasonable amount of time, it can get "old" or even stale and musty.  Our mill will make a 1 ton of some of the feeds, but then I get it delivered in bulk and have to have a 2 ton minimum for delivery.  So I can get 1 ton of poultry and 1 ton of cattle feed.  I also get a small discount if I give them at least 48 hour notice or get a minimum of 4 ton.... I will get the early order discount if I call ahead and tell them......Whenever you are headed this way the next time, I need 2 ton of such and such.... Sometimes it is 3-5 days.... but they give me a break since they can put in on a truck that is already coming this way.  Most of the delivery trucks have 4-6 separate "bins" and they hold at least 2 ton.  
But in the case of having it on the "floor" at the store....if there isn't enough call for it, it will get stale or even musty.  So if you can get a place to order it for you, and take a minimum amount, and are a regular customer, they will be more likely to keep some in stock.  Many places have to get  at least a ton.... a pallet will hold up to 50 -  50 lb bags..... and many places that get it shipped in will have to get a minimum of a pallet.  If they make their own, most "mixes/formulas" are based on a ton because many of the vitamins/minerals etc are added in small amounts......like 4 lbs per ton, 1/2 lb per ton, etc.  It is often very difficult to break it down in less than a ton mix.  If they carry the mix in 50 lb bags on the "floor" they are making up 1-2 tons at a time so that it is fresh for the customer. 

Years ago, I was raising guinea pigs and had TSC  order GP pellets in 50 lb bags.  GP's do not make Vit C in their system and it has to be ingested from their food.... like humans.  They did not carry it, so I asked and had to take 4 bags at a time, and then they found that there were a couple other people who would buy it.  TSC is better about being able to order "partial pallets"... but it depends on the store manager too.


----------



## Sheepshape

thistlebloom said:


> I'd love it!


 Nadolig LLawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda. (Merry Christmas and Happy New Year).

Just edited my last post to change 'the stakes will love it' (the duck house that is) to 'the drakes will love it'......what IS it with my computer? (the autocorrect feature end up with causing me endless trouble as I seem unable to notice the 'minor changes' it makes. The deranged machine just changed drakes to stakes again......it seems not too like that word.

Just reading about the trouble getting bags of feed. The approx 50lb bags work out more expensive than bulk feed, but folk with a small number of animals don't want to have large quantities of feed which would spoil before being used. Maybe if there was a regular order, say monthly, a feed store would accommodate your purchase. Duckfarmerpa1, find out what your neighbours are using for feed as to what will be the most easily available and economical to use, and maybe you could buy

These days I rely on my many trips to the sheep shed  to 'keep fit' rather than proper exercise, though I was a marathon runner in my heyday. A ruptured Achilles tendon and broken ankle put a stop to that. I doubt I could find the time to do the 'practice' now, even if the mind were willing. Working on a farm/smallholding is physically demanding enough for me now.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

thistlebloom said:


> Wow. That's just pitiful. I wonder why that is?


I think it’s partly because the soil is mostly clay around here?  Hard to grow alfalfa?  In our town....I only know of one otheR farm with goats...but I’m sure there are more..but, at the feed store we go to now..not my hubby’s sisters store..oops..they grind it all...have my assortment, etc.  except goat pellets.  They have to order it in special.  So I just get that when we go to TS.  But he even says...his beet pulp..he gives it to me dirt cheep because I’m the only one one who buys it..  I think people just can’t grow alfalfa hay due to the soil...and so goats are a luxury.


----------



## thistlebloom

Sheepshape said:


> Nadolig LLawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda. (Merry Christmas and Happy New Year).



Merry Christmas to you! (translation- Merry Christmas to you!)
I would be completely lost, but loving it. I would be the one nodding and grinning like an idiot while not understanding a word.


----------



## Beekissed

Thistle, I just love you, you know that?    Bless yer little heart!


----------



## thistlebloom

Beekissed said:


> Thistle, I just love you, you know that?    Bless yer little heart!



Hahaha!     
Which "bless yer little heart" is that?


----------



## Bruce

MUST goats have alfalfa? I don't know if anyone around here grows it. It is too protein rich for alpacas so I've not looked for it. 

The local Farm and Garden store carries Poulin products (now 3rd generation family owned Vermont grain business) but I think I am one of the few (if not only) that buys the Alpaca and Llama maintenance pellets so they have to special order it since I only use 100-150 pounds a year. I have noticed that they have always had some when I've gone in this past year so they are either planning really well or are getting at least 1 bag in stock knowing I'll be asking. They don't carry any All Stock sweet feed so I get that from TSC. I mix some into the alpaca pellets, only use about 50 pounds a year, maybe less.


----------



## Bruce

thistlebloom said:


> Hahaha!
> Which "bless yer little heart" is that?


 

Hmmm, well @Beekissed claims W. Va isn't "the south" (though the maps say it is based on the Mason Dixon line) so she probably means it in the positive sense 
Besides, if she wanted to insult someone, you wouldn't need to wonder about it any more than you would if @Baymule wanted to insult someone. It wouldn't be rude but you'ld know the intent. I love people that don't pussyfoot around.


----------



## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> I love people that don't pussyfoot around.



Me too! Punch me in the face, don't stab me in the back!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

farmerjan said:


> Most feed stores that do  not have very many in the area that want a certain type feed, do not keep it in stock because they have to order a minimum amount.... or in the case of a mill than makes their own, have to make a minimum amount.  If it is not sold in a reasonable amount of time, it can get "old" or even stale and musty.  Our mill will make a 1 ton of some of the feeds, but then I get it delivered in bulk and have to have a 2 ton minimum for delivery.  So I can get 1 ton of poultry and 1 ton of cattle feed.  I also get a small discount if I give them at least 48 hour notice or get a minimum of 4 ton.... I will get the early order discount if I call ahead and tell them......Whenever you are headed this way the next time, I need 2 ton of such and such.... Sometimes it is 3-5 days.... but they give me a break since they can put in on a truck that is already coming this way.  Most of the delivery trucks have 4-6 separate "bins" and they hold at least 2 ton.
> But in the case of having it on the "floor" at the store....if there isn't enough call for it, it will get stale or even musty.  So if you can get a place to order it for you, and take a minimum amount, and are a regular customer, they will be more likely to keep some in stock.  Many places have to get  at least a ton.... a pallet will hold up to 50 -  50 lb bags..... and many places that get it shipped in will have to get a minimum of a pallet.  If they make their own, most "mixes/formulas" are based on a ton because many of the vitamins/minerals etc are added in small amounts......like 4 lbs per ton, 1/2 lb per ton, etc.  It is often very difficult to break it down in less than a ton mix.  If they carry the mix in 50 lb bags on the "floor" they are making up 1-2 tons at a time so that it is fresh for the customer.
> 
> Years ago, I was raising guinea pigs and had TSC  order GP pellets in 50 lb bags.  GP's do not make Vit C in their system and it has to be ingested from their food.... like humans.  They did not carry it, so I asked and had to take 4 bags at a time, and then they found that there were a couple other people who would buy it.  TSC is better about being able to order "partial pallets"... but it depends on the store manager too.


The musty pellets...that’s why we don’t buy from my hubby’s sister’s store..bad feed.  And, we can’t tell her.  She’ll give us outdated feed...and it’s like...thanks.  We are landlords of 35 units...we take garbage to the landfill...so then we have to pay to dump the bad feed..ugh.  Anyways...the place we go makes their own feed..just not goat..no demand..and I only have two..for now.  How long does 1 ton of chicken feed last you..how many chickens?  Or whatever birds?  Our store does the discount thing.  We have room to store it..but before we didn’t want it to go bad...now we’ve upped our numbers.

Speaking of feed...do any of you grow any crops that you can feed to your animals?  We also farm veggies.  Last year my ducks ate tons of everything...now we’re talking a huuuuge fence...ugh again.  But...we’ve decided to use about 5 acres to grow something.  We thought corn...no ones allowed to eat much.  Plus..need a ton of equipment.  Soybeans don’t grow well here.  Anyways.. I think we settled on sunflowers and pumpkins.  Pumpkins last soooo long and were a huge money maker at our farm market at our driveway stand. All the animals can eat both, and...neither take huge equipment...

Any thoughts?


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Bruce said:


> MUST goats have alfalfa? I don't know if anyone around here grows it. It is too protein rich for alpacas so I've not looked for it.
> 
> The local Farm and Garden store carries Poulin products (now 3rd generation family owned Vermont grain business) but I think I am one of the few (if not only) that buys the Alpaca and Llama maintenance pellets so they have to special order it since I only use 100-150 pounds a year. I have noticed that they have always had some when I've gone in this past year so they are either planning really well or are getting at least 1 bag in stock knowing I'll be asking. They don't carry any All Stock sweet feed so I get that from TSC. I mix some into the alpaca pellets, only use about 50 pounds a year, maybe less.


They don’t eat many pellets?  How many do you have?


----------



## Bruce

Just the 2 wethered alpacas. They each get about 1/2 to 3/4 cup of pellets twice a day. As much hay as they want and plenty of pasture when the grasses are growing. The 23 hens are eating about 100 pounds a month, no way I'd get a ton delivered!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Sheepshape said:


> Nadolig LLawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda. (Merry Christmas and Happy New Year).
> 
> Just edited my last post to change 'the stakes will love it' (the duck house that is) to 'the drakes will love it'......what IS it with my computer? (the autocorrect feature end up with causing me endless trouble as I seem unable to notice the 'minor changes' it makes. The deranged machine just changed drakes to stakes again......it seems not too like that word.
> 
> Just reading about the trouble getting bags of feed. The approx 50lb bags work out more expensive than bulk feed, but folk with a small number of animals don't want to have large quantities of feed which would spoil before being used. Maybe if there was a regular order, say monthly, a feed store would accommodate your purchase. Duckfarmerpa1, find out what your neighbours are using for feed as to what will be the most easily available and economical to use, and maybe you could buy
> 
> These days I rely on my many trips to the sheep shed  to 'keep fit' rather than proper exercise, though I was a marathon runner in my heyday. A ruptured Achilles tendon and broken ankle put a stop to that. I doubt I could find the time to do the 'practice' now, even if the mind were willing. Working on a farm/smallholding is physically demanding enough for me now.


Oh geez... I tore my perennial tendon Aug2018 !  Raking apples!  Long story but I was disabled...WAS..and that was my bad leg.  Then after PT...I got so strong on my whole leg...look out..now I’m nuts!  My hubby loves it but can’t keep up...lol.

Anyways, we are at the feed store weekly.  I’m trying sooo hard to keep track of how much we buy..,to know what we are spending..,and, it’s just not happening.  I run the farm.  Period.  Chris builds it.  But, yes, the many trips to our barns, in the the deep iced over snow today, carrying buckets because the plastic valve on the 300 gallon water tank froze! Ugh.  

Is it possible to NOT have mice in my barn?  Crazy question right?  Most of my feed is in rubber made totes.  But, we just got two extra bags, and I don’t have room..,and they are different types of duck feed that I’m trying out.  Anyways... I see no sign of mice in this barn.  Well, it’s actually a converted semi trailer.  We were short on time.  We bought a semi trailer..gutted the wood floor..put in cherry hard wood...sectioned it....ducks with 32 rabbit cages above...then grain room..then goats. There are solid doors between the ducks and goats so there is no cross contamination..other than..when my goats try to sneak in and grab a snack!!  I’ve got that basically under control..but Stormy is a stinker!   We cut a door and three windows in the side. Redid walls and roof.  Pretty sure it cost more than a barn.  Cool part..it’s on a 4th foot grade...my hubby built housing for animals the whole way underneath.  When our 20 week old ducklings came out of the brooder they went in a 6’x8’ pen underneath...it was great!  Then they grew big enough to join the other guys.  Anyways...the trailer door..at the far end is open during the day.   But I’ve never seen a mouse.  I do know my ducks eat mice, and frogs. But, is it possible that there just aren’t any out there?  We’ve trapped 21 in the garage and this barn attached to my house...hmmmmmm


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Bruce said:


> Just the 2 wethered alpacas. They each get about 1/2 to 3/4 cup of pellets twice a day. As much hay as they want and plenty of pasture when the grasses are growing. The 23 hens are eating about 100 pounds a month, no way I'd get a ton delivered!


I don’t understand...we go through wayyyyyy more feed than you...until this week..less hens... my hens get free feed..do yours?  Are they good layers?


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## frustratedearthmother

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Well, it’s actually a converted semi trailer.


Would love to see pics!  (or have you posted them already and I missed it?)


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## Duckfarmerpa1

frustratedearthmother said:


> Would love to see pics!  (or have you posted them already and I missed it?)


 These are pictures of when we first got it and then after doing the floor...the ducks on their side....then you can the water eras and how we built a feeder into the wall...works ok....now they all have sleeping boxes against the walls.  By the grain room there is a heated waterer.  Then you can see the trailer door with my pots coming in for the first time.  They don’t like the ramp...too hard for them.  They stayed in the small barn.  Thats the goats side.  They don’t have stalls because they never did before and I didn’t want to stress them with sooo much change.  We’ll see about when the kids arrive.  New post for a couple more.  I don’t have any of the outside...I’ll get some..no shudders yet...got too cold too fast.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> These are pictures of when we first got it and then after doing the floor...the ducks on their side....then you can the water eras and how we built a feeder into the wall...works ok....now they all have sleeping boxes against the walls.  By the grain room there is a heated waterer.  Then you can see the trailer door with my pots coming in for the first time.  They don’t like the ramp...too hard for them.  They stayed in the small barn.  Thats the goats side.  They don’t have stalls because they never did before and I didn’t want to stress them with sooo much change.  We’ll see about when the kids arrive.  New post for a couple more.  I don’t have any of the outside...I’ll get some..no shudders yet...got too cold too fast. View attachment 68216View attachment 68217View attachment 68218View attachment 68219View attachment 68220View attachment 68221View attachment 68222View attachment 68223View attachment 68224View attachment 68225
> View attachment 68216View attachment 68217View attachment 68218View attachment 68219View attachment 68220View attachment 68221View attachment 68222View attachment 68223View attachment 68224View attachment 68225


Oops...sorry.. I posted those dumb pictures twice...maybe you won’t notice?  Lol. Ok. Hers just a couple more...here you can see how we wrapped the cages around the tra.  He put tin under to catch the Pooh.     Room for 32 rab..give or take several now that we just had 12 kits!    And then you can see my stinker rabbit Uncle George that jumped out of his cage...first on the left...and up to the top!!  He’s nuts!  He’s my favorite...he keeps me on my toes.   it’s uni barn, that’s for sure...we thought we might save some money...original plans were for a 32x24 barn....I ask Him if he’s happy with the choice..because he had to redo everything....roof leaked like crazy...was noisy  ...etc  it’s good now...I think


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## Baymule

Haha, I was looking at the pictures, then the picture of the pigs walking up the ramp scrolled up. My first thought was Noah's Ark! You need a sign with your (name) Ark!


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## frustratedearthmother

Cool set-up.  Thanks for the pics!


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## Beekissed

Bruce said:


> Hmmm, well @Beekissed claims W. Va isn't "the south" (though the maps say it is based on the Mason Dixon line) so she probably means it in the positive sense
> Besides, if she wanted to insult someone, you wouldn't need to wonder about it any more than you would if @Baymule wanted to insult someone. It wouldn't be rude but you'ld know the intent. I love people that don't pussyfoot around.


We do claim southern status merely due to that Mason Dixon line, but all the geography books say we are the northern most southern state and the southern most northern state.   Can't make up their minds what they want to call us as we just don't fit in with either culture, having a culture all our own due to the mountains in which we reside.   Hillbilly culture, I guess you'd call it.  

And I would nevah insult Thistle!!!  I would, however, tease her without any mercy.


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## Beekissed

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Oops...sorry.. I posted those dumb pictures twice...maybe you won’t notice?  Lol. Ok. Hers just a couple more...here you can see how we wrapped the cages around the tra.  He put tin under to catch the Pooh.     Room for 32 rab..give or take several now that we just had 12 kits!    And then you can see my stinker rabbit Uncle George that jumped out of his cage...first on the left...and up to the top!!  He’s nuts!  He’s my favorite...he keeps me on my toes.   it’s uni barn, that’s for sure...we thought we might save some money...original plans were for a 32x24 barn....I ask Him if he’s happy with the choice..because he had to redo everything....roof leaked like crazy...was noisy  ...etc  it’s good now...I thinkView attachment 68226View attachment 68227



Girl, you need some serious light and air into that building, both low and high.   I predict very high humidity and ammonia levels if you don't....bunnies alone can put out a ton of pee.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Beekissed said:


> We do claim southern status merely due to that Mason Dixon line, but all the geography books say we are the northern most southern state and the southern most northern state.   Can't make up their minds what they want to call us as we just don't fit in with either culture, having a culture all our own due to the mountains in which we reside.   Hillbilly culture, I guess you'd call it.
> 
> And I would nevah insult Thistle!!!  I would, however, tease her without any mercy.


My hubby wants to spend our winters in WV because it’s not that terribly far away...still have mountain areas, woods...but not NEAR the harsh winters....in his book, I guess you are coveted state!


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## Bruce

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> The musty pellets...that’s why we don’t buy from my hubby’s sister’s store..bad feed. And, we can’t tell her.


WHY can't you tell her? If I were running a business I would want to know. Going to lose customers because of it. They won't say anything, they will just go elsewhere and never come back. Not a good business plan.



Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> I don’t understand...we go through wayyyyyy more feed than you...until this week..less hens... my hens get free feed..do yours?  Are they good layers?


They have layer pellets 24x7. They lay well in the spring, summer and into fall. Not at all in the winter other than 3 of the 8 now 28 week old pullets. They also get some BOSS in the morning, scratch in the evening. Not a lot, about 3/4 of a 5 oz cat food can.



Beekissed said:


> And I would nevah insult Thistle!!! I would, however, tease her without any mercy.


That is how she knows you like her! I don't waste pixels teasing people I don't care about.


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## Beekissed

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> My hubby wants to spend our winters in WV because it’s not that terribly far away...still have mountain areas, woods...but not NEAR the harsh winters....in his book, I guess you are coveted state!


 If the truth were known, we are a coveted state by many. Folks sort of hate WV like the world hates the US....too independent, too many natural resources in one place, too beautiful and varied to classify or pigeon hole, and we LOVE where we live and wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


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## Bruce

I think I have to up my accounting of layer feed use to about 150# a month.


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