# Where should I look to buy a used driving carriage?



## Cruz&Walker (Aug 13, 2011)

I am looking for a road cart for my 15 hand Tennessee Walker. Anyone know of any websites I should look? I live in Wisconsin, so if any of you have a cart for sale in my area, I could come pick it up. It would need to be nice enough for 4-H shows. I am willing to do some paint touch up work on it.






THis is a cart that I am currently borrowing. This is the type that I would LOVE to own! I would also be very happy with a meadow brook.


Thanks!


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## goodhors (Aug 13, 2011)

Good luck hunting!  Here is a link to the American Driving Society's Midwest Region.
The Director has her photo up with links to contact her.  Scrolling down you will find
clubs in your state and states around you, where you can ask about vehicles for sale.
Often Club members will have various Driving related things for sale and can be found thru
their Club websites.  They can also connect you to local carriage and wheel fixers, for 
using later on.

http://www.americandrivingsociety.org/regn_midwest.asp

You may want to get some measurements to have ready for asking questions about 
vehicles to buy.  In the photo shown, I would say your cart is a bit small for that horse.

Shafts on carts should be riding level, neither uphill or downhill at the harness saddle, unless 
shafts are specially shaped with curves.  Tip should end even with point of shoulder
on the horse, with enough room behind so horse can't reach to hit the axle at extended trot.  You could 
modify that cart by raising seat or body to sit higher on the axle.  I would suggest that 
you buy a cart with a backrest, which will GREATLY add to your comfort on a drive.  Backrests 
can fold down or be upright.  Springs under the seat will also add to the comfort of the ride.  
An unsprung vehicle tends to let you know about EVERY bump, rock or hole in the road.  Takes
away from the "fun" of driving down the road.  

And while antiques are great vehicles, remember that they are OLD.  All their parts are also OLD.  If 
you plan to do mostly fun things driving, it might be worthwhile to just buy a newer vehicle, with 
roller-bearing hubs in the wheels.  Less maintenance.  Rubber tires on the wheels are a quieter, easy ride over 
steel rim wheels.  Wood of newer is more likely not to be real dry or brittle as is often found on antiques.
With the carts you name, ALL parts are fairly straightforward and easy to change if needed.  
Shafts are MADE to be replacable, so when it dries out, breaks, you just put new ones on.  Shafts
are usually a point that WILL break, because they take on moisture.  Rubbing the sweaty horse, leather
coverings holding in moisture, can make the wood weak over time.  Rot is hidden under nice leather.

The money, time spent on rehabbing an antique is seldom able to be recovered in selling the nice
vehicle later.  So it is better to buy a newer one in fairly good shape for a bit more money. that you
can use.  If you are not familiar with carriages, I suggest taking ANY new vehicle to an experienced 
carriage repair shop or person, have them go over it for you.  Let them find the hidden places that 
may need attention BEFORE you hitch vehicle to the horse.  Experienced eyes and ears can find things
 you never dreamed of.  I say this from experience!!  We purchased a LOVELY cart, looked perfect.  
However "family rule" is to have an experienced carriage shop go over them before ever hitching.  Just
about KILLED my husband waiting!!  He hauled the cart to "Good Ole George" the carriage fixer.  George
watched husband unload it, heard how wonderful the cart was, and started walking around the cart.  Husband
watched in horror as George got out his little hammer and started tapping on the wheels.  Husband was 
even more horrified when HUGE CHUNKS flew off with clouds of dust!  George tapped some more in other 
locations on body, other wheel with MORE chunks flying off!  George had a rather evil smile on by then, was
having a good time teaching husband a lesson.  Lots of "You hear that?  And that?" as he hit the carriage.
The lessons to learn were what REAL wood sounds like and what plaster filler sounds like as you tap the vehicle.
Turned out vehicle was filled on a lot of places to make it look good once painted.  Spokes on wheels were BAD, 
more plaster than wood.  Any attempted driving in that cart would have resulted in a wreck when the spokes gave way
on a turn.  THANK YOU GEORGE, it was several lessons well learned.

George kept the cart, fixed everything up for us, repainted so it was nice again and we enjoyed using it for
quite a while.

Husband has learned a lot since then and we don't have George anymore.  Husband still takes everything apart, wheels
go to a wheelwright for checking spoke ends, hubs or new rubber if needed.  Wheelwright is  the expert on wheels, knows
all the sounds to hear, wrong sounds that means a problem lurks.  Husband does all the rest of vehicle checking 
himself, fixes needed things before we get to play with the new vehicle.  Better safe than sorry.

Hope I haven't scared you away from Driving!  It is our family activity, we do all kinds of carriage driving activities.  I just like 
folks getting started to be safe as they learn how much fun it is!!  You can meet the nicest folks out driving!


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## DuckyGurl (Aug 13, 2011)

Just wanted to say good luck in searching!


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## pekinduck<3er (Aug 14, 2011)

good luck searching


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## Cruz&Walker (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks goodhors for all the info! 

Now that you mention it, I definitely want a backrest. Good thinking! I would also like a two seater bench, unlike the one I was using. 

Yes, I would like to buy a used vehicle (for price reasons), but I don't think I will buy an antique. I really don't want a project for my first cart. I am willing to repaint, but not be replacing parts.

WOuld you be weary of buying a cart without seeing it? I found a used cart that *sounds* good in PA. The pics are really nice. If I measure and if fits, it would have to be shipped. I suppose that is too big of a leap of faith for my first cart. I would like to have this experienced driving friend of mine take a look at it, so I probably shouldn't go with this.

What are roller-bearing hubs in the wheels?

I currently own a easy entry metal cart, and it has served me well. However, it is really too small for him, but was perfect for training.


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## goodhors (Aug 15, 2011)

I think I would pass on a vehicle so far away.  If you are just starting, you may not know the right questions to ask seller,
to have everything answered so you get what you need in a cart.

The measuring would include height of shaft loops on horse, in their center hole from under the rein ring.  That will let shafts 
ride level when hitched, as I mentioned before.  No shafts uphill or down hill when hitched.  Height of seat so 
you are sitting higher than horse.  Length of shafts, so tip will end at point of shoulder, with room behind horse.  My horse uses draft LENGTH
shafts, but they are not draft width at the harness saddle.  Shafts can be pulled together or pushed apart some at saddle curve, 
wood is flexible.  So width your horse needs can be added on a little, with some "stretching" apart possible.  Height of singletree 
where traces attach should be lower than horse bottom of windpipe, so horse has a little bit of uphill on his traces.  It is 
mechanically better for him.  Husband has gotten pretty good at carriage things, so we just put our singletree on the bottom of 
the crossbar instead of the top.  Gave us that couple inches for the upward angle to pull.  The angle is called "Line of draught 
(pronounced draft) that gives horse the mechanical advantage.

I would suggest you look around for a Road Cart, a model that would make you happiest.  The seat is higher, so you can look
forward of the horse, without having to lean sideways.  The reins should run from bit, thru rings on shoulder, harness saddle rings, 
into your hands in a straight line.  Looking at your photo, you see reins dropping from bit to your hands because seat is too low.  Dragging
your reins across horse when you signal him adds delay time in his response, might add leverage to his bit, making rein signals harsher than 
you want.

I dislike Meadowbrook Carts because they always seem too low behind the horse.  Driver needs to lean outward to see ahead of horse.  That
leaning can be tiring on long drives.  Again the low seat has rein line broken unless you hold hands VERY HIGH, also tiring.  They are wide and stable
to ride in, so many folks like Meadowbrooks.  Modern Amish ones can be heavy for carts, made of Oak.  The split seats are a bit easier to 
enter with the cart than stepping up and over the shaft in some Road Cart designs can be to enter.  Our Road Cart started with fold-down seat backs, 
so I could step on the rear floor slats at the back and then swing a leg over seat to enter.  Other folks may be stiffer legged, short, so they 
would not like that cart to get into.  Some wooden carts have a double bent shaft, so they are easy to get into from the side step.  Kind of a 
wooden "easy entry" cart.

Roller bearings are the inside of modern wheels, roll very easily on the axle for horse to move vehicles.  Antiques like buggies, have a leather piece
that works as a washer against the axle spindle wheel goes on.  We have been told that buggies should be greased about every 300 miles,
probably will need the leather washers replaced at the same time.  Quite often the aged buggy has worn into axle and wheel (married) needing the left front wheel ONLY fitting
the left front axle spindle.  Same with the other wheels of that buggy.  Roller bearings are supposed to be interchangable on spindle for quick replacement 
should you need a new wheel or different size wheel.  You remove wheels and hub parts in order, clean and regrease the parts and replace everything 
inside the wheel hub on the spindle, screw the hub cap back on.  Wheels are good for several months of steady usage, many miles, before needing to be 
regreased.  Lots easier upkeep, standardized to be easier to use if parts need replacing.

The CD-L is a large Driving group.  They can be entertaining, abrasive, but they know much about driving all over the USA.  You have to join to allow posting.  
You could post on there asking for carts in your area.  Lots of folks read "the List" but don't post, except private messages.  No telling what might 
turn up with asking or just watching the For Sale posts in the future.  Holler if the link doesn't work.

http://listserv.dartmouth.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A0=CD-L

I have to think there are a bunch of carts near you, Wisconsin is a hotbed of Driving!


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## FlaRocky (Oct 29, 2011)

Hello, Have you thought about going to the big Perry, Georgia sale that they have once a year? It is worth the trip. Big 3 day carriage, wagon, cart, and driving horse sale. Make contact with an experienced carriage person who is going or will go with you to find the cart of your dreams. Google for information on the Perry Sale or for other big sales that might be closer to your home.

 BTW, I drive my Rocky Mountain Horses,

Hope this helps.

 Maye


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## zzGypsy (Oct 30, 2011)

did you get your cart?
keep an eye on craigslist, carts do come up from time to time.  I see one or two a month (although not always the type you're looking for) in the Springfield, MO listings.  also try DraftHorseStuff.com they have national listings.


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