# Foul Play or Not?? 😭💔



## ThieleK (Jun 15, 2021)

Hey Everyone,

so recently I've lost my pet ram lamb,
I've had him since he was around 4 days old so was hand raised as his mother passed shortly after birth.. 
He's always suffered with bloating since I can remember from birth but nothing as bad and extreme as the night of the 11th of June..... 

I've come to the forum to seek some sort of help and guidance as I've already made some pretty strong allegations without actually 100% knowing and Google is actually being useless in this instance...

So the night of June 11th around 8:45pm I had my house cameras up on my phone and seen Lucy (aka Lucifer) acting so strange and getting down on this front legs crawling for a bit then getting back up walking some more, shaking his head almost as if he were sneezing but with no sound and making horrible little cries and his stomach was absolutely enormous, the biggest I've ever seen it! 😭💔

I notice this and instantly fly out of bed, run through the house and try to help him, my ex partner (current at that point in time) came out a few minutes after and basically told me he is ****ed and going to explode..... 
He has never sort of liked the fact I had a lamb but had no say in it....

Now what transpired after he said that was an argument of him yelling at me while I was holding Luce trying to help him breathe, saying to get inside and make the bicarb solution before he dies!!!!!
I run inside to start making it, slam the door, he then calls me some names and then he drags him out of sight of the camera but can still hear audio and comes inside 5-8 minutes later and tells me he's dead.....
he was not with him for that full 5-8 minutes...
he is seen dragging him out of sight, then walked away locked the gate, walked back over to him then walks inside...

My question is
 if Luci were to die of bloat would his entire body be 
Stiff or limp? 
Or stiff but neck limp?
would he generally die in a certain position?

I've googled for hrs and nothing is telling me on how to determine if my Sheep died of bloat or a Snapped neck...

Just over 4 months ago I lost my 7yr old English Mastiff to twisted stomachl surgery X2, I got a phone call from my vet saying he's made it out of his second surgery and was awake and in recovery, he's eating/ drinking and using his bowels and I should be able to pick him up in around 3 hrs...
An hr later I had a phonecall from my vet telling me he stopped breathing and they couldn't revive him 😭😭💔
so I'm quite hurt and still very upset at the fact he passed without his mumma around and only strangers....


Now I have already made the alleged acquisitions toward him about snapping Lucia's neck and he Denys it all but there just is something that isn't sitting right with me hence the whole "ex partner - current at time"  comment but I feel like the biggest piece of **** for not being there when he passed whether it be from bloat or foul play because of my boy Zeus....💔

I will get justice if this is what has happened and I'm sorry to put my life story up but I'm just trying to give you guys some sort of insight and I can't exactly gain justice with only acquisitions and not knowing what physical evidence to look for....

any help would be kindly appreciated....
sorry once again 🤦🏼‍♀️​


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## Baymule (Jun 15, 2021)

This is now your ex partner. You cannot prove anything, you cannot prove that he snapped your sheep’s neck. All you would accomplish is stirring up a big stink that could backfire on you. He sounds like a jerk, you don’t have to put up with that from anybody. But you have to let this go. Trying to bring charges against him with no proof would just amount to a vendetta, no DA would take the case. Let it go. Lick your wounds, never ever let anyone else ever call you names or berate you like that ever again. Let this go. You have learned to keep what is important to you and clear the clutter of a controlling jerk out of your life.


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## farmerjan (Jun 15, 2021)

If this has been a chronic case of bloat then there is no way to ever prove otherwise, regardless of the "now -ex".... as @Baymule  says.  Let it go.  Sounds like it may have been a case of just coincidence... there is no way to say that an animal is going to die in a certain position from bloat,  or that a snapped neck would be limp and the rest of the body stiff.  
If the lamb was suffering from constant bloat, then he is now not suffering.  Be glad of that and accept that he is gone...  the ex-partner is gone, and you have to go forward from here.


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## Kusanar (Jun 15, 2021)

I'm with the others, you can't prove anything so don't try. He (the ex) is now out of your life so if he did it, there should be no further issues. 

My bigger question of what happened though is not did he break the lambs neck, but why was this lamb bloating his entire life? My understanding is that it isn't super common for sheep to bloat when properly managed and is typically feed related. I don't know anything about your management system or how old he was but that just seems odd to me.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 23, 2021)

I agree with everyone else on this.  

*Bloat can be a killer. * The most optimal help would have been to tube him, inserting the flexible tube into the rumen so the gas could escape.  Bicarbonate of soda is slow acting and not effective in such a desperate situation since sheep can't burp.  All bicarbonate of soda actually does is soothe the stomach lining.  Vets use a special instrument like a corkscrew to open a hole into the rumen through the side of the animal to release gas from bloated animals immediately.  Bloat as extreme as the symptoms you were describing could certainly have resulted in death very quickly.  

How old was this lamb?  It takes a lot of strength to snap the neck on a mature sheep, or even one 4-6 months old. Sheep, goats, and cattle have very strong necks with strong neck muscles.  I don't know how strong or big your partner is/was, but snapping the neck on a sheep is not easy.    As far as whether he would be stiff or limp, he would start to stiffen into rigor mortis very quickly as the body temperature cooled.  

As Kusanar asks - Why was this lamb bloating consistently?  What were you feeding?  How much at a time?  You might need to review your management practices.

Glad to hear that your partner is now an "ex" since he was so unhelpful and unsupportive.  Whether the ram lamb survived or not, you didn't need the verbal abuse on top of the distressing emergency.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 24, 2021)

I'm in the same boat. I'm doubting he snapped the lambs neck, I dont even think that is possible if he was over 6 months old.

If he had that much issue with bloat either something was wrong with him or with something you were doing. Better off without the Ex and even though he was clearly a jerk, I don't think it was fair for you to assume he killed your lamb. Accusing anyone of killing your animal without hard proof no matter your emotional state is over the line.

I'm in agreement with the others, I have seen more then one animal bloat and die very quickly. There is no typical body position, there is no part of the body that is more floppy then others, even if the neck was somehow snapped it would not stop rigor mortis in any way. Unless you had a necropsy there is no way to prove if he died from bloat or a snapped neck and no way to charge him. Sadly the lamb was doomed to death by the time you found him.

In an emergency we have punctured the rumen with a sharp to let off the pressure. This however has only ever saved one animal, the others just bloated again despite baking soda. Make sure any lamb or goat gets CDT, it helps prevent bloat.


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