# My baby has diarehea(sp) and gunky eyes...



## supermommy (Mar 25, 2010)

It started yesterday night with the runny poop, its black in color and very loose almost water consistancy. Eating about 16-20oz of milk replacer per feeding 3x a day. Eating hay, not to interested in water yet though. Acting fine otherwise. oh and he is just over a month old. He alsi has runny eyes...Not bad but noticable. Clear from what I can tell, eye is not red just like a runny eye?

An advice..I called the breeder and she suggested he be put on goats milk.. Do you think that might be the problem? He has been on the replacer for a week now...

Thanks


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## Roll farms (Mar 25, 2010)

The replacer change could be responsible for the diarrhea, but I'd also be worried that it *might* be coccidiosis....or it could be e coli, for that matter.

If it was me, I'd treat him for coccidiosis for 5-7 days w/ DiMethox or Sulmet, give him Probios 1x a day for 3 days, and either switch to goats milk or whole milk (vitamin D) from the store but do it gradually, a sudden change in diet upsets anything's tummy.


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## warthog (Mar 25, 2010)

Sorry can't be any help with your problem, don't have enough experience yet.

I gave my young buck who was bought has a bottle baby milk replacer, but after having read posts of this site and others, if I have any more bottle babies, it will be whole cows milk, can't get goats milk here.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 25, 2010)

supermommy said:
			
		

> It started yesterday night with the runny poop, its black in color and very loose almost water consistancy. Eating about 16-20oz of milk replacer per feeding 3x a day. Eating hay, not to interested in water yet though. Acting fine otherwise. oh and he is just over a month old. He alsi has runny eyes...Not bad but noticable. Clear from what I can tell, eye is not red just like a runny eye?
> 
> An advice..I called the breeder and she suggested he be put on goats milk.. Do you think that might be the problem? He has been on the replacer for a week now...
> 
> Thanks


Like Roll Said, it could be the replacer....could be coccidia....could be a bacterial gut infection like e.coli.  

The fact that he's acting normally otherwise leads me to think it's probably a dietary scour, since the 'loose stool' from either _acute_ coccidiosis or bacterial enteritis will _usually_ be straight-up _dysentary_.  There's usually pain, or at least depression and a general 'off'-ness with real dysentary.

If he were here, I'd probably hold him off the bottle for a day or so, give him some pepto and probios, and wait it out.  If it improves or clears up, put him back on the bottle (I'd go smaller feedings at first) and start switching him gradually to goats' or cows' milk.

If the scour does not improve or continues getting worse after withholding the bottle, it's probably more than dietary and he'll probably go off his food anyhow.  At that point, I'd start him on SMZ-TMP and work to keep him hydrated.  SMZ-TMP is effective against coccidiosis and reasonably effective against bacterial enteritis, so you're working to cover both bases.  

I'd personally probably also go ahead and start him on PenG injections, too, just in case something breaks through the gut and gets into the bloodstream...plus, well, he's got the junky eyes anyway.  If that's an infection, you may end up killing two birds with one stone.  

**PLEASE UNDERSTAND that I have no idea of PenG and SMZ-TMP counteract one another...I'm just saying that *I* would probably do it.  Could be a bad call and he drops dead.  Who knows..  I've certainly made my share of bad calls before.**

If and when he starts to come back around after the SMZ-TMP treatment and gets interested in taking a bottle again, I'd probably still go with smaller feedings and begin to switch him off the replacer and onto goats'/cows' milk....though, at that point, I guess that step's more or less optional.


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## horsesrus (Mar 25, 2010)

you are giving this baby too much milk.  cut the milk back to maybe 6 ounces per feeding.  when baby is on mother they eat many times throughout the day.  they never drink anywhere near 20 ounces in one feeding.  It is just not natural.  I disagree with cows milk.  Did the diarrhea start as soon as you put him on milk replacer?  If so, switch back to goats milk.  If not, just feed less.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 25, 2010)

horsesrus said:
			
		

> you are giving this baby too much milk. cut the milk back to maybe 6 ounces per feeding.  when baby is on mother they eat many times throughout the day.  they never drink anywhere near 20 ounces in one feeding.  It is just not natural.  I disagree with cows milk.  Did the diarrhea start as soon as you put him on milk replacer?  If so, switch back to goats milk.  If not, just feed less.


Too much milk?  Not at all.  Unnatural?  Perhaps...  Intolerable?  Absolutely not.

In fact, I disagree with pretty much everything you just wrote.  Feeding 20oz 3x/day is pretty much a universally accepted method of bottle feeding baby goats.  I've done it many, many times myself -- both with cows' milk and goats' milk -- and have never had a problem.

Begs the question...how many bottle baby goats have you raised?


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## horsesrus (Mar 25, 2010)

I raised many kid goats on a bottle.  I would have to say too many.   You can not take a baby goat that is getting maybe an ounce or two from the mother and give it 20 ounces at a time.  Will cause diarrhea every time.   I've witnessed many people KILL their baby goat over feeding them.  
Many goat breeds hardly make any milk at all.  The babies do well and grow fast.  

Say, are you the person who wants to wean the babies and feed them less times per day because it is better than heating milk, cleaning nipples, washing bottles?

First if one buys a bottle baby that is just how it is.  They need to be fed several times per day and should not be weaned off milk until they are at least 8 weeks old.

With my feeding method I've never lost a bottle baby.  I've raised hundreds of them that way.  

To the new goat mommy that is having the diarrhea issue.  Err on the side of caution.  You've given 20 ounces at a time.  You got diarrhea because of it.  Now do it right and feed that baby as it's mother would.  Small amounts several times per day.  
If you have children, did you bottle feed them only 3 x per day large amounts.  I hardly think so.


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## jlbpooh (Mar 25, 2010)

Hmm, this thread may get interesting.


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## Roll farms (Mar 25, 2010)

I have also raised hundreds of kids, around 50 per year in fact, on 3 - 20 - 24 oz bottles per day....goat milk usually, but when I don't have enough to go around, I use whole cow milk.

I suggest this method to folks who buy kids from me, or to beginners who contact me for advice...I've yet to hear of any of them having issues.
The person who 'taught' me about bottle raising, more than 10 years ago...raises 100 kids or so per year on 3 feedings per day.

Our kids start out getting 3-4  6 oz bottles of colostrum the first 24 hrs, and as they get older I give them as much milk as *they* want in a feeding, up to 24 oz per feeding.  

It takes them a while to get up to that point, usually a few weeks.  It's not as though I'm cramming 20 oz of milk into a newborn, or even a one  week old, kid.  
I wouldn't pull a kid who's been nursing off his dam and feed him 20 oz suddenly, either...it would have to be adjusted accordingly.

I never wean before 12 weeks, and in fact I have 2 - 15 week old kids who're still getting 20 oz. per day, because I have plenty of milk at the moment.

I do my best not to belittle other folk's methods and to point out that what I suggest or that any advice I offer is just how I do things....
and that it may not be the best way for everyone.

In a forum situation, you will see conflicting suggestions daily.  
Diplomacy is key..."If you can't say something nice...." will go a long way.  
If you feel you *must* say something that someone else might take offense to, well, that's what the "Private Message" button is for.

You feed your kids many times a day...it works for you...wonderful.   

Please don't ASSume that because I choose a different path than you, that I'm either stupid or too lazy to wash bottles...I assure you I'm not.

And.....I haven't lost a kid in many years....so while I may not be "right" in your eyes, I'm not wrong in mine, either.

Different strokes.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 26, 2010)

I think we need a few more answers before we can figure out if it's too much milk or something else.  

The kid is a month old.  How long has the OP had him?  Was he on his dam before she got him or was he being bottled?  If he was being bottled, how much was he getting how many times a day?  What breed is he?


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## cmjust0 (Mar 26, 2010)

horsesrus said:
			
		

> I raised many kid goats on a bottle.  I would have to say too many.   You can not take a baby goat that is getting maybe an ounce or two from the mother and give it 20 ounces at a time.  Will cause diarrhea every time. I've witnessed many people KILL their baby goat over feeding them.


Yes you can, no it doesn't, and...if you say so.  



> Many goat breeds hardly make any milk at all.  The babies do well and grow fast.
> 
> Say, are you the person who wants to wean the babies and feed them less times per day because it is better than heating milk, cleaning nipples, washing bottles?


In other words...am I the person with other things to do?

Uh, yeah...that's me.

If you have nothing better to do than feed a month old kid 6oz at a time, 10x/day...more power to ya.  

Still doesn't make you correct, though..  Indeed, you're still incorrect and there are many thousands of people raising bottle babies on 20oz x 3 feedings who would back me up on that.

You've seen a few here already.



> First if one buys a bottle baby that is just how it is.  They need to be fed several times per day and should not be weaned off milk until they are at least 8 weeks old.


We wean at 8-10 weeks...usually 10.  And, last I checked, _three_ makes _several_.



> With my feeding method I've never lost a bottle baby.  I've raised hundreds of them that way.


Me either.

FWIW, I'm sorry that you had to raise hundreds feeding them umpteen times a day before someone told you how much simpler it could have been.

At least you'll know next time, though.  



> To the new goat mommy that is having the diarrhea issue.  Err on the side of caution.  You've given 20 ounces at a time.  You got diarrhea because of it.  Now do it right and feed that baby as it's mother would.


Yeah!  

First, get on all fours and go "mehemememehe".....

 



> Small amounts several times per day.
> If you have children, did you bottle feed them only 3 x per day large amounts.  I hardly think so.


That's a ridiculous analogy..  Are human babies up and running around at one day of age?  Do human babies decide to walk over to the fridge and make a sandwich at a few days old like a baby goat walks over to hay?  Were your own children big enough to have babies of their own at 8 months of age?

Gimme a break...


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## supermommy (Mar 26, 2010)

ok wow...This is interesting..lol People argueing over how much to feed goats.. I will say this what works for some may not work for others..With that being said,
 I have had him only about a week, he was on mom before that but takes feedings like a pro! I did cut back feedings to see if that was the problem his poop is a little more solid but still not firm so to speak! We checked for fever last night and it was 103 so Im pretty sure he is not "sick" Eyes look better today, so I think that was just a fluck and really has nothing to do with the scour  Thank you all for the help and advice...


I want to "try" and stay away from meds IF possible, but I dont want to risk loosing my little guy because of my stupidity. So we will keep working on it and if he doesnt get better with the reduced feedings we will try step 2.. Thanks again!


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## Roll farms (Mar 26, 2010)

FWIW, "pro-bios" are just good bacteria you put in the rumen to help straighten it out if the bacteria gets off balance....kind of like the "Activia" you see Jamie Lee Curtis selling on tv, only for goats.

I understand staying away from meds when possible, and I'd LOVE to, but I found out the hard way that our ground is coccidia-laden and if I don't use preventative treatment, my kids will sicken / die.

It won't cost you much to have a fecal ran to see if there *might* be an issue, and it may well make a difference if there is a problem and you catch it early enough to treat it.

Whatever you decide, best of luck to you and the kid.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 26, 2010)

A totally unrelated question:  I do a lot of texting but, what on earth does FWIW stand for??


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## ksalvagno (Mar 26, 2010)

For What It's Worth


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## Roll farms (Mar 26, 2010)

And I've never texted in my life....


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 26, 2010)

Ooooohhhhh- I see.  A while back I used BTW in an email to my mom at her office- she emailed back and asked "what is BTW?  And don't include it in the email if it's inappropriate."  Leave it to my mom to assume that I'm being inappropriate... she knows me all too well.


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## supermommy (Mar 27, 2010)

woohooo we have normal poops again  thank you ALL for the help,advice,etc


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## ksalvagno (Mar 27, 2010)

Glad he is doing fine now!


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## horsesrus (Apr 4, 2010)

I know it been a while since your original post.  What is it you've done to get this baby better?  Thank you


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## pioneergirl (Apr 22, 2010)

Obviously I'm new here and I'm dredging up this thread.

My 2 kids have runny nose, gunky eyes, and runny poop.  No, not technical terms, but I call it like I see it.  They are roughly a month old, and we've had them for a week.  I have no doubt we are using a different brand of milk replacer than the people before us, and were feeding 20oz twice a day, with two 10oz snacks between.  Yesterday they started drinking warm water from a bowl, and seem to be acting just fine otherwise.  They wander the yard tasting things, the doe more than the buck.  

So I'm wondering if I should try what the OP's have suggested....that is, get some goat's milk from the store and gradually replace the powdered stuff with that?  Or should I just go ahead and call the vet?  Seems everything I read has something different, so I'm all kinds of confused!


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## horsesrus (Apr 24, 2010)

Stop overfeeding your babies.


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