# How do you decide quality of rabbit?



## Somebunny2love (Jun 16, 2012)

How do you determine if your kits are show quality, breeding quality, or pet quality, and how do you price them?


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## kfacres (Jun 16, 2012)

as a general rule of thumb-- if you have to ask--- they're not SQ...  99.9% of the time- if you didn't guy SQ stock to begin with-- nothing else will produce show quality offspring.  mutts and crossbreeds, right off the bat, are not show eligible.


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## Somebunny2love (Jun 16, 2012)

Say you did buy show quality rabbits.  How do you determine what quality THEIR offspring is?  I assume that not ALL of their babies will be considered show quality or even good breeding quality, but how do you know the difference?


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## Bossroo (Jun 16, 2012)

Find the "Standard of Perfection" for the purebred breed in question and apply the standard to the  rabbit in front of you.  Keep in mind that animals change as they grow/ mature.  Also, find an experienced show breeder that would be willing to be your mentor/ sounding board. Next step would be to enter your best rabbit in a show, then study the judges comments as to how the rabbit placed. Then ask the judge questions/ advice as to imprvements that need to be addressed.  Have fun !


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## Bunnylady (Jun 16, 2012)

kfacres said:
			
		

> as a general rule of thumb-- if you have to ask--- they're not SQ...  99.9% of the time- if you didn't guy SQ stock to begin with-- nothing else will produce show quality offspring.  mutts and crossbreeds, right off the bat, are not show eligible.


This is not entirely true. It is not uncommon for someone to do an outcross to another breed to try to improve type on their stock, particularly if the breed they are working with is not one of the more popular breeds. The first generation cross may be a bit too far off to be show quality, but it isn't at all unusual to have a rabbit that can't be registered because of, say, a grandparent that is another breed, that cleans up at shows. This happens more often in the commercial - type breeds; most of the smaller "pet" breeds are pretty distinctive, so outcrosses there tend  not to do well compared to purebreds on the show table.

As Bossroo said, the breed standard is your starting point when it comes to knowing what your breed is meant to be like. The difficulty is learning what those words mean when you are dealing with an actual rabbit. That's where experience comes in, and the need for other breeders or maybe a judge that can tell you just what they look for in that breed. Understand, though, that a judge may or may not know much about a particular breed, or may not even like the breed you are interested in. For example, I know of a judge that really likes commercial rabbits, and refers to Jersey Woolies as "furballs." He may be able to adequately judge a Wooly class at a show, but I wouldn't go to him for advice on how to improve my Woolies. Or another example - I took some of my Harlies to a triple show one time. With one of my does, one judge almost sneered at her, and remarked, "I don't even know _what_ to say about that body." She put that doe at the bottom of her class. Another judge, who I knew was a Harlequin breeder from way, way back, playfully offered to buy that same doe, and put her at the top of her class (she won a leg for that placement). Which judge's opinion do you think I payed attention to?

If you don't know somebody who can act as a mentor, I'd say go to a show, see who's rabbits are winning, and ask them what they look for. If they aren't in a hurry to get something else on the table, most breeders are more than glad to brag  - I mean, show you their animals, and point out the good and bad points. 

Understand, most rabbit breeders suffer from a condition we call "hutch blindness." We tend to be absolutely over the moon about our stock, thinking that everything we have is just the best thing ever to appear in a nest box -at least to start with. Taking rabbits to a show can be a humbling experience. After a while, you learn what's good, and what's not so good. Sometimes, a breeder will go in the opposite direction, seeing so many faults, that they are actually surprised when their animals win!

Pricing is tricky, largely because it depends on the market. Basically, pet quality is worth whatever you can get for it, which may be $5 in some areas. Show quality - that gets even trickier. "Showable" can be a far cry from "Show winning," especially with the more popular breeds. Some of the price can be based on reputation. A breeder with a history of lots of show wins can usually command top prices, because people believe they will get a good rabbit from that breeder.  Some people will charge extra for a pedigree, but I think that's a bit over the top. IMO, if you go to the trouble of writing up (or printing up) the pedigree in the first place, just figure that it's part of the price. You can't undo the time spent, either way.


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## kfacres (Jun 16, 2012)

quote=Bunnylady]





			
				kfacres said:
			
		

> as a general rule of thumb-- if you have to ask--- they're not SQ...  99.9% of the time- if you didn't guy SQ stock to begin with-- nothing else will produce show quality offspring.  mutts and crossbreeds, right off the bat, are not show eligible.


This is not entirely true. It is not uncommon for someone to do an outcross to another breed to try to improve type on their stock, particularly if the breed they are working with is not one of the more popular breeds. The first generation cross may be a bit too far off to be show quality, but it isn't at all unusual to have a rabbit that can't be registered because of, say, a grandparent that is another breed, that cleans up at shows. This happens more often in the commercial - type breeds; most of the smaller "pet" breeds are pretty distinctive, so outcrosses there tend  not to do well compared to purebreds on the show table.

the average person, who would be asking this question-- will most likely not have the genetic experience needed to accomplish this task of improving a breed.


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## Bunnylady (Jun 16, 2012)

kfacres said:
			
		

> quote=Bunnylady]
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Yes, but the subject isn't about improving a breed, it's about determining show quality, besides, what you said was "show eligible." The ARBA does not require pedigrees for animals to be entered in their shows. As long as the animal is the right size, type, color, etc, to be a specific breed, you can enter it in a show as that breed. That doesn't mean it automatically stands a chance of winning - even if it's the only one entered, a judge can determine that an animal is "not worthy of an award," and refuse to place it. An animal can be free of disqualifications, thus technically showable (in some people's minds, that's the same thing as "show quality"), and yet not have the kind of quality required to win at a show.

I have been breeding rabbits for over 25 years. During that time, I have known quite a few breeders that had extremely good stock, who didn't know diddly about genetics. They regularly got the name of the color wrong, but still had lots of grand champions in their herds. They knew a good rabbit when they got their hands on it - whatever the heck that color is called! 

I have also known several breeders who would _give_ show quality stock to a young person that had expressed an interest in their particular breed. Hopefully, they would be in a situation where they could continue to be in contact, and guide the neophyte in their choices on what to keep and what to show, but I can see a situation where a newby might acquire some very good stock, and then not know which kits in a given litter had promise, and which to get rid of at whatever price they could get. I have known several instances where an experienced breeder put a young rabbit up for sale, some know-nothing bought the rabbit, and went on to beat the animals that the breeder kept at future shows!  Sometimes dumb luck _can_ put a good animal into the hands of a person who, for whatever reason, fails to appreciate the quality of it.


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## kfacres (Jun 16, 2012)

Bunnylady said:
			
		

> kfacres said:
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more times than not?  I remember saying 'the average person', and 'as a general rule of thumb'-- and 'more times than not'..

but in general, I do agree with you-- every old blind dog finds a bone every once in a while...


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## PinkFox (Jun 16, 2012)

onthe price question that will also be determined by locationand time of year...some places sell higher than others, some have different "fast sell" seasons where bunnies go like hotcakes...ect...itll also depend on breed (rare breeds will fetch a higher price...ect.)


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## Somebunny2love (Jun 17, 2012)

So what's the difference between breeding quality and pet quality?


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## Bunnylady (Jun 17, 2012)

Breeding quality might be an animal that is showable, but which you really don't believe would win at a show. In a popular breed like the Holland Lop, the little critters need to be darn near perfect to win, because there are so many of them at shows. In a case like that, breeding quality might be the "other" good one in a given litter, that somehow just doesn't make the cut (see the rabbit purchased by the know-nothing in my previous post!  ). Most of the time, breeding quality is show quality, but there are exceptions. It might be a rabbit that you wish you could put on a show table, but is an unrecognized color for that breed. It might be an animal that has a large chunk missing from an ear (they are animals, it happens!), or a missing toe; something that would get it DQ'd at a show, but doesn't affect its health nor that of its potential offspring. In the dwarf breeds, breeding quality could be a false dwarf doe that has very good type for a false dwarf, but of course is too big to be shown. Essentially, breeding quality is an animal that you think has the potential to produce show quality offspring, if bred to an animal of at least similar quality.

Pet quality is any animal that you think just doesn't have it, period. Although, for a real "do or die" sort of breeder, anything that they personally wouldn't put on a show table is pet quality (that might even include your rabbit that just beat their best rabbit in a class!  ). False dwarf bucks are generally considered pet quality by most breeders, simply because they have so little usefulness to a breeder. In marked breeds, there are an awful lot of "pretty" bunnies that just don't have what it takes, markings-wise, that could be either pet or breeder quality, depending on the market.


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## AprilW (Jun 21, 2012)

I agree - the Standard of Perfection is the place to begin. Some of the terms can be difficult to decipher and so talk with experienced breeders for better definitions and examples. Any rabbit with a heritable disqualification is pet (meat) quality in my barn. I breed Dutch which are a marked breed so usually a mismarked/sport animal with good type is considered "breeding quality". Pets may have incorrect markings or poor type. I like the previous response that breeding quality is what you believe could produce show stock/rabbits better than itself but isn't itself showable. Saying a rabbit is show quality is tricky. To me it is a rabbit with no disqualifications and has the potential to do well on the show table. I never sell rabbits as show quality - I call them "show prospects" because they MAY do well or they may not. I suppose ultimately it is up to the buyer to decide. 

Pricing is largely relative to your local rabbit market. Here, pets are a dime a dozen. No one will pay a breeder more than $5-$10 (yet they buy the pet store's mutts for $40  ). Selling pets isn't worth it to me - anything I don't believe will help my herd or someone else's is put on the dinner table. There also isn't a big crowd of show breeders and so if I want to sell brood/show stock I generally have to wait until one of the two or three shows I hit each year. Then prices are in the $30-$50 range - I purchased a "herd buck" from a well known breeder/judge and paid just $75 for him. In a more popular breed I have seen excellent quality bucks sell for $150-$200. I've also seen breeders sell pets for $40 each. 

In the price of my rabbits, I include a pedigree and sample of my food to make switching easier on the animal. I also have a lifetime return (no refund) policy. 

What breeds are you interested in and perhaps we could help you more?


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## Somebunny2love (Jun 22, 2012)

Currently I have Lionheads, and I am considering getting some mini lops as well.  We do have a big lop, but he is just a pet and has been neutered.


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