# Rescue goat hoof issues! HELP!



## Teeah3612 (Jan 9, 2012)

I went to pick up a goat that a friend of my DIL wanted to give us. She sent us a picture of this cute pygmy buck and never mentioned that he had any problems. He looked healthy from the picture. So, we get there to pick him up and she is like well he has some problems with his legs. Apparently her dog got hold of him and tore his front legs up. They took him to the vet and the vet (which apparently knew nothing about goats) puts hard cast on both is front legs. I don't know when this all happened, but one of them is still on there. He can walk, but not right. The first thing I noticed when he came out of the little makeshift pallet house he was in was his hooves. I ask her "When was the last time you trimmed his hooves?" She gave me a deer in the headlights look. She had no idea that you have to trim their hooves! This goat is almost 3 years old! His hooves are turned up. 

So, I now have a goat with some serious leg issues. I just could not leave him there to suffer. I am going to take him to the vet this week, because I just don't think I can deal with the hooves or the old cast that is still on his leg. I can care for him at home with some direction from the vet, but I am afraid to cut the cast off myself and the hooves are really bad. The only way I can describe it is if you have ever seen pictures of horses that have been neglected to the point their hooves grow out and turn up. It's really that bad!

Oh, and to add to all this, they were feeding him dog food. They said he wasn't a normal goat and would not eat grass. The first thing he did when I got him out at my house was start munching on the grass. I am sure he has never had goat food or minerals. It is a wonder he is not dead! He is getting a cup of grain (twice a day), loose minerals, and all the hay he can eat now. I am going to give him a CDT shot tonight. I am sure they never thought of that either.

I almost forgot to mention...they had a halter on him that must have been on there forever. I had to cut it off because it would not go over his legs or horns. They had him tied up to a tree in a muddy side yard at her mom's house.

So, I don't know what I am asking of you all. I just needed to vent about this obvious case of abuse/neglect/stupidity.  Thank God my husband is an animal lover because I know this is going to cost some money!


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 9, 2012)

Oh man, is that goat lucky you came along! He must have been miserable!   Hopefully the casts can come off and there's no permanent damage to his legs.  It's going to take a while to get his hooves in shape, but you just have to start trimming them.  I would start trimming off as much as you can, and if it looks too pink or starts to bleed, stop and wait a week or so and try again.  

If you're up to it, we would love to see pictures and then updates with his progress!


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## Roll farms (Jan 9, 2012)

First off, good for you for taking this on.....Sure hope those folks don't have other critters.

I'd be real gentle / slow introducing each 'new' thing to him, food-wise.  If he's not used to grain he may well scour a bit.

Probios, or yogurt ASAP.

Keep some tetanus antitoxin on hand in case his feet get cut during the removal of the old hoof tissue, it takes several days or weeks for them to build immunity after they get their 1st and 2nd shot, so there's a chance he could still contract tetanus, even though he's had his 1st shot.  And be sure to boost him.

Probably wouldn't hurt to have a fecal ran, too.


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## ksalvagno (Jan 9, 2012)

Good for you for taking him in. Now he can get the care that he needs. I bet the vet can help you out with some trimming too. It sounds like it is going to take some time. Good luck.


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## Queen Mum (Jan 9, 2012)

I had a goat that had hooves like that.  My vet said to soak the hooves in an iodine and salt water solution right before trimming.  It softens the hoof keratin, but right after you trim and it dries, it toughens the hoof tissue and prevents infections.  You can also put honey on the hoof if it bleeds when you cut.  Honey prevents infection as well and draws out any infection that might be resident.  This came direct from my vet.   

Take it a bit at a time, but the part that is growing upwards can be cut right off, since it is just dead tissue.  The sooner you cut it off the better.


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## Teeah3612 (Jan 10, 2012)

I was not able to get ahold of the vet yesterday. I will try again today. I just moved into the area and this is not my usual vet.

I was able to trim his right hoof some, but could not trim the left one. It has grown so much that it is wrapped around itself. I can't get them trimmers under it to cut. 

I gave him a CDT shot and wormed him last night. He is eating good and for all the health issues he has he doesn't seem to have any personality issues. He and Peanut are getting along just fine. They spend the day together and we bring Peanut into his enclosure at night and Mr. Buttons sleeps in the goat house we built.


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## Teeah3612 (Jan 10, 2012)

This is a little closer shot of his hooves. He wants to chew on the camera, so it was hard to get a close photo.


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## Queen Mum (Jan 10, 2012)

A dremmel tool or an angle grinder will help getting the worst of it off the front of his hooves if you have it.  You might need someone to help you hold the hoof still but it is much faster that way.  AS long as you are not near the tender part of his foot, just saw that part right off with the angle grinder or dremmel tool.  Then you will be able to get the trimmers much closer to the critical part of his hoof to do the clean up.  

Don't be shy about it.  But don't close your eyes either.  (I know, I'm just kidding here, but you know you want to close your eyes and just go for it.)


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## elevan (Jan 10, 2012)

He looks very much like my Speedy who we lost recently.  Bless you for taking him in!  

You've gotten some great advice so far.  Please keep us posted.  I can't wait to see updated pics of him with nicely trimmed feet and happy.


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## Shayna (Jan 10, 2012)

Aw, he's cute!  I'd love to have a couple little goats someday, they have so much personality.


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## Teeah3612 (Jan 10, 2012)

Mr. Buttons has an appointment with the vet at 3:30 today. We will see what he has to say about treating him. 

Thanks everyone for all the advice!


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## Stacykins (Jan 10, 2012)

I hope Mr. Buttons had a fruitful time with the vet. He is a cutie, I bet he is SO glad he is now with you and not his old home!


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## zzGypsy (Jan 10, 2012)

interested to hear what the vet says...
if you need more help getting the hooves trimmed, post up... I've had to do this several times.  soaking will definitly help. 

on the worst of the ones we did, we needed a horse hoof nipper to cut through what were *very* hard very overgrown hooves.  the goat hoof shears work well on the thin wall, but nippers can be used to take off the thicker areas, as well as trim back the overgrown pad.


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## Beekissed (Jan 10, 2012)

He looks in pretty good condition for having lived on dog food~not great, but not as bad as one would expect.  That cast does NOT look good....I'll not be surprised if you find some sores and tissue atrophy under that area.  Poor little guy!  Kinda makes you mad, doesn't it?


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## Teeah3612 (Jan 11, 2012)

Update: The vet doesn't think we can remove the cast. He doesn't think there is anything but bone under there. If we removed it he would be crippled, since that is all that is supporting his leg. Mr. Buttons has been chewing it away slowly. The vet's advice was to watch it for oozing and infection. If that starts then he will have to be put down most likely. The vet said we will also have to watch the leg without the cast, because it is a solid mass. He is worried that it might get infection also.

As for the hooves, I am going to try softening the one this weekend and then trimming it. Both of his hooves are very deformed. The vet suggested making leather booties for his hooves because he has worn the pad down on the side. He has busted it open twice since we got him. So, looks like I will be making goat booties this week. Am I insane or what?

I think the vet was of the same opinion that we are, make him comfortable and give him a good home for however long he survives. As long as infection doesn't set it, that could be some time. He actually gets around pretty good considering the condition of his legs. The only time he has problems is early in the morning when it is cold. Once he gets up and moving he is okay and they don't seem to be sore to the touch. 

I'll let you know how the softening and trimming goes.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 11, 2012)

That sounds awful odd that they can't remove the cast.  Even if you had to remove the cast and wrap it until his leg healed, I would think it's at least a better option to *try* rather than just say he has no chance.  I think I would find a different vet and get a second opinion.  Unless you're on a budget, in which case I completely understand.


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## Beekissed (Jan 11, 2012)

I'm with Aggie on this one....if you're going to keep the poor little bugger, I'd remove the cast, treat the open areas, wrap well with soft bandages and make sure he can't get them off.  What's the worst that can happen?  He sure isn't going to get better with a too small cast cutting the circulation from his leg.  

That leg will have to heal from the inside out, as the wounds will be so deep that you don't want to keep anything pocketted into them.  They may even need debrided of dead tissue before they can ever heal....can't believe the vet didn't at least remove the cast to see what is underlying it.


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## zzGypsy (Jan 11, 2012)

we had a horse that skinned the hide off his lower leg - about half the length of it between knee and ankle.  he had a strip of hide about 1/2" wide on the front and back of the shin that was intact, but the rest of it was gone down to the bone and tendons.  we treated it by keeping it wrapped as follows: non-stick gauze dosed with antibiotc ointment big enough to cover the entire open wound on each side.  two thin sheets of cotton padding (surgical type) over the gauze pads. wrap the whole thing with vetwrap (the self sticking stuff), then tape with duct tape to keep it secure and dry (top and bottom only if the weather is dry).  we'd change the dressing every 3 or 4 days, or if it got soaked or started to unravel, or had any odor to it.  took about 3 months for the hide to grow back in but it did without any scaring, couldn't tell it was ever wounded.

I've had sheep regrow a missing section of hide that was 6x6" so I'm guessing a goat can too.  in the case of the sheep, the injury was not fresh, so the vet trimmed back the dried edge of the wound to freshen it, and we kept it dosed with a non-drying antibiotic spray to keep the edge clean and moist, and with SWAT to keep the flies away.  it was left open to the air.  the hole closed in less than a month.

with a lower leg, it'll be in the dirt so it needs to be covered.  if you're interested in trying this, removing the cast is needed, and if there's no connecting skin between the upper and lower areas, it may not close... but I've seen some things you can't imagine healing that heal anyway.

where is the hoof breaking open?  at the hairline?  on the walking surface?

goats in boots... interesting.

and good for you for doing right by this little guy. that makes you my hero


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## Teeah3612 (Jan 11, 2012)

I am not so sure about the new vet either. I may have to take a trip back to the old vet and get a second opinion. We just moved and tried to find a vet nearby. I have no problem with doctoring the leg after the cast is off. It just seems to so connected to the leg bone. I don't know that there is any connective tissue under it.

The hoof is breaking open on the padded area. He is not walking on the hooves, but back on the pad and has worn it down. It is raw looking. That is the reason for the goat booties, so the pad can heal while I work to get the hooves trimmed into a better shape. They will never be perfect, but hopefully he can put weight on them. Of course, the deformity may keep him from putting weight on them like he should.


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## Beekissed (Jan 11, 2012)

Teeah3612 said:
			
		

> I am not so sure about the new vet either. I may have to take a trip back to the old vet and get a second opinion. We just moved and tried to find a vet nearby. I have no problem with doctoring the leg after the cast is off. It just seems to so connected to the leg bone. *I don't know that there is any connective tissue under it.
> *
> The hoof is breaking open on the padded area. He is not walking on the hooves, but back on the pad and has worn it down. It is raw looking. That is the reason for the goat booties, so the pad can heal while I work to get the hooves trimmed into a better shape. They will never be perfect, but hopefully he can put weight on them. Of course, the deformity may keep him from putting weight on them like he should.


I think that will be your problem.  Chances are this isn't just a skin flap missing or a mere flesh wound but a bone deep loss of all tissues in some areas.  In a case such as this, we treat human wounds~not with antibiotic ointments~but with normal saline wet to dry dressings that are changed daily.  Since I know you don't want to do something like that daily, if he were mine I'd find some raw honey and saturate your gauze with it, apply directly to the wound bed after cleansing and secure it with a wrap.  I'd check that and apply fresh every 3-4 days.  

You can probably purchase booties wherever they sell such things for dogs~working dog suppliers should have them.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 11, 2012)

But I'm thinking there has to be SOME tissue under the bone, seeing as how the tissue and hoof underneath appear to have blood flow.  If the cast had completely cut off all tissue under it, then the foot below would have become necrotic and sloughed off.  At least that's what I'm thinking.  

Heck, I bet the goat would even do ok if he had a front leg amputated, if Teeah wants to go that route.


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## Beekissed (Jan 11, 2012)

I'm willing to bet that he has more tissue loss on the front of his leg as opposed to the back of it, where the major blood vessels will lie at the area of the cast.  I'm just amazed the vet didn't at least pop that cast and take a look....if he didn't think the area could bear being exposed, he could have affixed a new protective cast, couldn't he?


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## zzGypsy (Jan 11, 2012)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> I'm willing to bet that he has more tissue loss on the front of his leg as opposed to the back of it, where the major blood vessels will lie at the area of the cast.  I'm just amazed the vet didn't at least pop that cast and take a look....if he didn't think the area could bear being exposed, he could have affixed a new protective cast, couldn't he?


that's what I'm thinking too.
and amputate - that's possible too, but it might depend on the health of the other leg - I'd want to wait until the other front hoof is in better shape if that's possible.  putting all his weight on one front leg is going to be hard on the healing hoof.  I don't know about goats, but horses carry 70% or so of their weight on the front legs goats, maybe a bit less, but still it'll be a challenge to the hoof.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 11, 2012)

It's hard to not judge the vet not knowing what all went on, but I am just really disappointed to hear a vet say they couldn't take off the cast and only keep him comfy until it gets infected and they have to put him down. Yikes. I just don't know.  Maybe the vet doesn't think the goat is worth the time/money, or who knows what. 

I would take the chance and remove the cast, because it's pretty obvious it's on their way too tightly.  I'd do my best to keep it clean and help it heal, and then the goat at least has a chance!  It's no life for a goat to have an awful cast on his leg all the time.  If it really is that bad, and he doesn't make it, at least he had a shot.


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## cmjust0 (Jan 11, 2012)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> I think I would find a different vet and get a second opinion.


Agreed, x100.

"Leather booties" for his hooves?!  ReAlLy?  I've *personally* trimmed goat hooves (for the record, not *my* goats!) that were like 6" long.  Seriously.  At least.  I had to clip off huge sections with horse hoof nippers until I got down to the pad and hoof wall that was soft enough to trim, and even that was a good 3" from the top of the foot.  I trimmed that particular goat until it passed out either from pain or blood loss..  I know that sounds horrible, but I was so focused on getting it done that I think I kinda sorta forgot I was working on a live, conscious animal and the daggone poor thing went limp and about fell out of the stand..  I seriously thought she died...had to go smack her to make sure she was still with us.  

Yes, it's awful that I did that..  I know, I know..  And no, I wouldn't have done it under most *normal* circumstances..  But when I was done, the goat got its bearings back, jumped down and just sorta tiptoed a bit like 'Ah! Oh! Eeh!"....and then went STRAIGHT to the feed pan.  She was high-stepping like she till had her 'old shoes' on (which was frankly comical, I have to say), and I'm sure she was sore for a few days, but the job got done and she was better for it..

Which is why I say again...LEATHER BOOTIES!?  Jeez o pete.. :/

And don't get me started on the idea that that goat's still living with "nothing but bone" under the cast..  I wish I could ask that vet how blood was being pumped through the area under the cast if there was no tissue there, considering the foot hadn't rotted off yet?!  No skin means no veins...no veins means no blood...no blood means no life.  If the foot's ALIVE, then there IS more than bone under that cast.

That vet sounds really stupid.  Sorry.    

Edit:  I wrote the blood flow thing before seeing that pretty much everybody had already come to that same conclusion..   Good to know I'm on the same page as everyone else for once!


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## PattySh (Jan 11, 2012)

I can't imagine that cast is comfortable on his leg, no wonder he is trying to chew it off. I would take the cast off and try to heal it,  or euthanize him, I wouldn't leave him like that. I am shocked that a vet would leave that on.


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## secuono (Feb 20, 2012)

Any updates?


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## Beekissed (Feb 20, 2012)




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## hcppam (Feb 20, 2012)

Hope it works out. That cast looks like it is strangling the leg.


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## Teeah3612 (Feb 21, 2012)

Mr. Buttons is still running around and eating like a horse. We are doctoring the hooves as best we can. He has lost a little weight, but he was overweight to begin with, so that is a good thing. Did I mention his diet consisted of dog food when I picked him up? He and Peanut are still getting along fine and mob whoever feeds them. 

Last night we were outside burning some brush around feeding time and they got so loud my son was like "Mom, Can you go feed those goats!?" They think if they can see you that you should come over and pet them.


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## Beekissed (Feb 21, 2012)

Did you ever remove the casts???    Any pics of his legs since the removal, if so?


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## hcppam (Mar 6, 2012)

we still don't know what happend here?


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## Teeah3612 (Mar 27, 2012)

Okay, I know you all want to know about Mr. Buttons. Well, we took him to a different vet. (The one where we used to live!) Dr. Marshall cut off the cast like thing. We think it was a mix of bandage and some sort of skin/scar like tissue. There was actually hair starting to grow on part of it. There is no obvious flesh under it, but some sort of bony growth. Dr. M was able to trim his hooves some for me. They are very deformed because of the way he walks. He has no movement in his knee joints. Dr. M had to use horse nippers to trim them. He showed me everything he was doing so that I can get nippers and do it at home. He doesn't believe they will ever grow anywhere near normal. 

Oh, there is blood flow to through the bony leg material, but not real good flow. We know this because it bled alittle in one area when Dr. M cut the cast thingy off. We put Buttons on pencillin because he had some swelling in the foot. All the vet techs in the office came out to watch the removal of the cast thingy. No one has ever seen anything like this. 

Mr. Buttons was very good throughout the whole procedure. He just layed there with his eyes closed. He only hollared once and that was when they were making him lay down. As soon as we opened the stall he headed outside and straight for the truck. I don't think he wanted to give us time to do anything else.

Hopefully this will help his leg to heal in a little more natural way.


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## ksalvagno (Mar 27, 2012)

Glad that you were able to get that cast off. Hopefully he will be able to live a decent life now. At least you are giving the best chance possible for a halfway normal, pain free life. It really was great that you took him in.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks for the update!  I'm glad you took him to a different vet!!  And now he's got a chance to heal and hopefully live a much better life than he had before!  Be sure to keep updating us.


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## wannacow (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks for the update.  He's sure a lucky goat, now...


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## JustKiddin (Mar 28, 2012)

I too had been wondering about this guy... thanks for the up date.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 28, 2012)

Wow, thanks for the update.  Can you post pictures so we can see how he looks now.  This is a great way for us to learn what we can do for any animals that we rescue.   

BTW, when I got my doe, Mama, her hooves were badly deformed from neglect.  They have taken almost 3 years, of patient trimming, but they look almost normal now.  Her legs have stopped making funny noises when she walks and she is doing GREAT!  

Keep at it and you would be surprised how much you can do with some careful and patient work.  Also you can ask a farrier to take a look at his hooves and get some advice or an experienced hoof trimmer.  AND an angle grinder or dremel tool can do wonders for overgrowth.  Just be careful and work at it slowly.


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## hcppam (Mar 28, 2012)

Poor little guy  thank you for the info.


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## Pearce Pastures (Mar 29, 2012)

That is great to hear.  Bless you for taking the care that you have of the little sweetie.


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## Teeah3612 (Mar 30, 2012)

I am going to try something new on him this weekend. I have heard that sugardine (sugar & betadine mixture) is good for healing flesh wounds on horses. I am going to mix some up and start putting it on his leg and bandaging it to see if we can get some more normal tissue growth going. I have been keeping it sprayed down with an antiseptic in the area where the cast like thingy was removed. 

Boy is he going to love me for this NOT! He already runs when he sees me coming with the spray bottle. You would be amazed how fast a three legged goat can run. He is still not putting a lot of weigh on that leg.


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## fanov8 (Mar 30, 2012)

Just read your whole story, and WOW!  Kudo's to you for doing your best with Mr. Button's.  Glad to hear things are going pretty good for him right now.  I am a vet tech and I was going to suggest the sugar and betadine to you.  We have used it a few times in our clinic with great results!  

We would all love to see some new pics of the fella if you get a chance


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## zzGypsy (Mar 30, 2012)

Teeah3612 said:
			
		

> I am going to try something new on him this weekend. I have heard that sugardine (sugar & betadine mixture) is good for healing flesh wounds on horses. I am going to mix some up and start putting it on his leg and bandaging it to see if we can get some more normal tissue growth going. I have been keeping it sprayed down with an antiseptic in the area where the cast like thingy was removed.
> 
> Boy is he going to love me for this NOT! He already runs when he sees me coming with the spray bottle. You would be amazed how fast a three legged goat can run. He is still not putting a lot of weigh on that leg.


here's another thought... you might try honey... there's good evidence that it promotes healing, actually speeds it up, and it's antibiotic, antifungal, and keeps the growing edge of the flesh moist but not wet.  It's being used as a dressing for wounds with antibiotic resistant bacteria as it works on them as well.  I've done some experiementing on myself - I got some major gouges from one of my rabbits, treated one arm with honey, left the other arm untreated - definitely sped the healing, reduced the scar, and totally eliminated both infection and swelling in the honey-treated side.

make sure you get *local* *raw* *un-heated* honey, direct from the beekeeper if you can - the healing enzymes are destroyed by heat and commercial honey may not be actually honey - even if it says "pure" or "raw"... those are marketing words and there's no standard to enforce what is actually in there.  commercial honey often comes from china and can be mosly rice syrup or fructose or other things, and contaminants are not controlled.  the reason for buying directly from the beekeeper is then you can ask how it was processed... it should be filtered, but not heated over 100 degrees F.

honey can be applied and left open (although stuff will stick to it) or covered with a light dressing - often a single sheet of gauze or cotton (like a bit cut from an old sheet) is all you need and the honey actually helps keep the dressing in place if it's not applied too thick.  the white paper surgical tape (available in drug stores) can be used to hold the sheet/gauze in place.


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## fanov8 (Mar 30, 2012)

The honey uses the same principal as the betadine and sugar.  It's the sugar in the honey that keeps the bacteria from growing.  Both are great methods!


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## Teeah3612 (Apr 3, 2012)

I started the sugardyne on Sunday when I had some help. My husband held him while I put his whole leg is a tub of water and betadyne to clean it good first. I coated it with the sugardyne and put some self stick wrap on it. I am going to change the bandage tonight. I will let you all know how this goes. Hopefully we will get some good tissue growth. I think that part of the swelling in the hoof may be due to poor circulation. What gets me is that he will let me give him shots, wash and bandage his leg, but runs when he sees the bottle of Blu-kote. That stuff must really sting. I have to sneak up on him with it behind my back. I have gone to work with a purple hand more than once!


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## Stacykins (Apr 3, 2012)

Teeah3612 said:
			
		

> I started the sugardyne on Sunday when I had some help. My husband held him while I put his whole leg is a tub of water and betadyne to clean it good first. I coated it with the sugardyne and put some self stick wrap on it. I am going to change the bandage tonight. I will let you all know how this goes. Hopefully we will get some good tissue growth. I think that part of the swelling in the hoof may be due to poor circulation. What gets me is that he will let me give him shots, wash and bandage his leg, but runs when he sees the bottle of Blu-kote. That stuff must really sting. I have to sneak up on him with it behind my back. I have gone to work with a purple hand more than once!


Too funny about the blu kote! I think it is alcohol based, so it must sting. I should try it on a cut sometime to see how it feels. Hopefully at work you don't get too many looks with the blue splatters! It seems no matter how careful someone tries to apply blue kote, it still gets EVERYWHERE!


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## fanov8 (Apr 3, 2012)

Our vet always said to make sure that you use gauze under the vet wrap.  The vet wrap can cause alot of irritation to the skin, I'm sure that's the last thing that you want to do right now.  Just a recomendation, maybe someone else can agree or disagree?  Did they tell you to only do it every few days?  We had to change the dressing everyday when we did it.  I dunno...  Good luck either way and I hope you can see some changes!


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## zzGypsy (Apr 3, 2012)

fanov8 said:
			
		

> Our vet always said to make sure that you use gauze under the vet wrap.  The vet wrap can cause alot of irritation to the skin, I'm sure that's the last thing that you want to do right now.  Just a recomendation, maybe someone else can agree or disagree?  Did they tell you to only do it every few days?  We had to change the dressing everyday when we did it.  I dunno...  Good luck either way and I hope you can see some changes!


that matches my experience as well... gauze under the vetwrap if there's any exposed skin.  we do sometimes use it without gauze if there's no exposed wound or skin (for pressure wrapping) but it can pull hair.


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