# Bruce's Journal



## Bruce

Not sure what all I'll put here but @Latestarter asked about a post mentioning my alpacas (news to his busy self) so I figured I would start a journal for random info.

Some history first. DD1 has had a 24x7x365 migraine since 2007. It is aggravated by loud noises, man made fragrances etc. Our prior home (still own and STILL trying to get totally moved out so I can finish it. Work stopped when her head went south) was 1,500 sq ft on a lot 44x100 with neighbors close on each side, similar size lots. Open the window when they are doing laundry and suck in the stink from their "make it smell nice" detergent and dryer sheets. Sirens on main road 1/4 mile away not muted, etc. 

Wife decided in 2011 that we should find someplace quieter so I started hunting land to build a house. She wanted an already built house for faster move. Found this place, it had been fairly recently rehabbed. ~26 acres, about 20 is woods. Some fields, two old barns. All buildings pre US Civil War. Bought Nov 2011. Nearest neighbor is 100 yards across the road to the east. DD1 didn't know he had a dog for a year. GOOD dog. Next closest is his neighbor to the north at 150 yards, next is our neighbor to the SW at over 200 yards. The noise we hear the most is their dog. Bark bark bark. And no, it is not a LGD doing a job.

Wife and DD1 moved in here March 2012 after I fixed some stuff and we replaced the relatively new washer and dryer because try as she might, my wife could NOT get the "make the clothes smell nice"  stink out of them. (BTW, CLEAN does not have an odor). Mostly I stayed at the other house with DD2 since I didn't think it fair to move her for the last 1.5 years of HS to a place where she knew no one on a hope that the move would help her sister. 

Fast forward to March 2013, DW And DD1 move back to the old house and the spring and summer (and a TON OF MONEY we had not expected to blow) is spent 95% rebuilding the north building of the house because the prior owners had lied through their teeth about the condition of the house. It was obvious how much they had knowingly covered up in their 'rehab', things a building inspector can't see because they can't rip down drywall, etc. 

In the middle of this the company I worked for was blowing the workforce to make it look like a better deal to the company they were going to PAY to 'buy' the 2 manufacturing sites and I retired when I was laid off.


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## Bruce

DD1 is an emotional vegetarian. Nothing living here will be eaten by us or anyone else so my options are eggs (she ignores the "what happens to the male chicks at the hatchery" thing), honey and fiber animals. Can't do dairy goats or sheep because ~50% of the offspring required to get the mom back in milk will be male and if no one is going to eat them, that runs into a lot of "useless" male animals to be fed all winter. It does not pay to be male in the agricultural world.

I researched Alpacas as fiber animals but at the time it was a business model doomed to failure near as I could tell. Pay thousands (if not $10K plus) each for breeding animals then sell the babies to people who will pay thousands for them so they can breed them and sell the babies to people who will pay thousands ..... You get the idea. There has to be a relatively small number of people who will ride that train so I wrote them off. Sheep? Money is in the food value, not the wool so that was a no go. Stopped thinking about fiber animals.

The first "livestock" was a dozen layer chicks from Ideal in Texas, June 2012. I converted a 10x12 stall in the barn to a predator safe coop. The barn alley (70'x8') is their indoor run. They are free to come out of the barn most every day and put themselves to roost at night though they do want their scratch grains first. And while a bunch of chickens is a flock not a herd, let me tell you a dozen hens running for treats sure SOUNDS like a herd! I put the game camera in the barn last night. Here they are when they heard me at the barn door this morning






Lost 1 Partridge Chantecler to "who knows what" March 2014 and an EE to a fox in late April. Lost the other Partridge Chantecler to a fox in late April 2015, nearly lost my fave Back Australorp Echo that same day but saw the fox from the kitchen window with the hen in it's mouth. Yelled, it dropped the hen and ran across the field to the woods. Echo ran the other way, found her 1.5 hours later across the road at the NE neighbor's. Got 7 chicks from Meyer in June 2015, they were raised by Zorra, my BIG Black Australorp after spending 2 nights and 1 day in their Momma Heating Pad brooder in our bedroom. Lost 2 of the older girls (both the Cubalayas) to a raccoon this past summer, one of the Anconas (also 4 Y/O, guessing heart issues) and one of the 1 Y/O EEs  to Fatty Liver Disease based on my autopsy and review of the pictures by someone who knows chickens. So, back to 12 at the moment.


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## NH homesteader

Oh I so feel for your daughter.  I have migraines but they've really been better as I get older.  Having one all the time? Wow...  That's so awful. Doctor at Dartmouth Hitchcock really helped but I don't need migraine meds anymore, thank goodness.  

Are the alpacas pets? I love alpacas. I'm hoping this journal will have pictures of them...


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## Bruce

Back in late June I was at the mailbox before going somewhere with DD1 and 2. A car pulled up, I didn't recognize the lady so I figured she needed directions. Nope, she wanted to talk alpacas. Her family is moving to Florida in the spring and she was divesting her animals. Some chickens (already gone), 7 alpacas (the 5 girls already gone) and 3 goats. Her husband had apparently been suggesting she talk to me. Maybe because we have the space and fields and maybe because our hens are outside a lot so he figured we treat our animals well. I never asked. Anyway, she thought it would be weird to come up to the door to talk about this but since I was out on the road, not weird 

So the deal was, she didn't want to post them on Craig's List and sell them to someone who might not appreciate them and care for them well. Instead, she wanted to GIVE them to me, along with their heated water bucket, a stock tank, leads (the halters were too small for them and she gave them away with the girls) and even the toenail shears. Such a deal. But I have SO MUCH TO DO at this house and the other. Figured my wife would say "Nice, NO!!!!!". Instead she was excited. Go figure. So I thought about it some and kept trying to talk myself out of taking the free boys because I already have SO MUCH TO DO. But I failed.

I started working on fencing an area on the north side of the barn so the boys could come and go as they please. In the video in the prior post, you can see the gate that separates the last stall and that part of the run (alpaca area) from the rest of the barn (chicken area). For whatever reason the prior owners had fenced around the pond behind the big barn to the NW corner (poor job as is true of everything done here that I can attribute to them) and did not include the doors on the north end. And OF COURSE I found another "sacred rock burial ground". EVERYWHERE I want to dig a hole here seems to be somewhere someone in the past decided would be THE perfect place to bury a bunch of unwanted and fairly large rocks. The garden fork hits rock no more than 1/2" down pretty much everywhere in the area I was working and well outside it. You can't see all the rocks in this picture but the posts are not in line as they should be, some rocks were just too big to move without equipment. The leaning post is just marking where it will go. The post to the right of it IS in place, several inches out of line. The pipe gate can't open in because it hits a large rock, you can see the white edge of it.






The "door" on the left used to go to a silo that was apparently falling down and was removed by the prior owner. It is just plywood screwed to the opening. I am putting in an operable door so the wind won't blow straight through the barn alley. There is this narrow area that goes from the alley to that door beside the alpaca stall. I have it all cleaned up now and the plywood is removed.


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## Bruce

The boys, Laddie (purchased) and Teddy (born at their place to one of their girls and a sire off the farm) arrived Sunday morning. I had figured out that I needed some way to keep them in the barnyard rather than having access to the area between the barns since I open the gate to let the chickens range around the house. To that end I used the remaining half of the gate that was there and put in some T posts to hold up a spare 10' pipe gate as a fence. Then I opened the doors on both ends of the barn hoping they would find their way through and out around back.

Teddy was let out first, he waited for Laddie then they walked down toward the barn.


















I love it when a plan comes together!


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## luvmypets

Beautiful boys! Alpacas are pregnant for so long, so we opted against breeding. Our herd is all boys. We were going to add a white and brown boy but that fell through. Cant wait to see what you do with them.


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## Bruce

The boys do not spend much time in the barn. In fact the reason that I have the video of the chickens running for the door is because I set the camera up to see if the alpacas came in during the night. They were in there in the late afternoon 3 days ago and I had put some alpaca pellets in their feeders on the gate in the alley later that day when I gave the girls their nighttime scratch but it was still there in the morning. It "disappeared" sometime during the day.

They have taken pellets from my hand through the pipe gate every morning but NO touching. They are a bit sloppy when eating out of hand and the chickens (still nervous as a cat in a room full of rocking chairs) have figured out that there are eats just beyond the gate and will venture there if the boys are elsewhere.

One of my White Rocks (2015 chick) is insistent on laying out. She was fine with the nest boxes in the barn all last fall, winter and spring. Then something got stuck in her brain. I keep OCD track of who lays when, how large etc and it was obvious I was getting nothing from Yuki for a period and she had previously been a great layer. The first nest was in the bushes in the front yard, 13 eggs (all good) by the time I found it. Her next nest was OUTSIDE the fence in the daylilies by the road. 5 eggs in that one when I followed her. I would not let her lay there and she was going NUTS trying to get back to that nest. I finally captured her and locked her in the barn and was going NUTS jumping in every nest box, then out. I don't know what her little chicken brain was looking for. One box is a dark community box 4' long. The other is a 4' box with 2 dividers. NONE were OK with her. I finally made a nest box out of a corner grain feeder I put on the floor in the "feed room" and covered fairly well and that seemed OK.

She laid there for many days then went silent again. Finally saw her going into the 5' tall weeds on the north end of the pond and later went looking. Found a nest with 9 eggs about 25' in. Long trudge for both of us. I stole those eggs too. Then I started seeing her at the south end of the pond. She had been poking around there some weeks before and I'm not certain there isn't a nest I never found. I found her latest nest about 10' in (much more reasonable) with 2 eggs and evidence there had been a third though there were no shell bits (odd??) I stole one egg and marked the other so I could tell which was the most recently laid egg the next day. But the next day (Tuesday) there were NO eggs. I put one of the rock weighted, taped shut plastic eggs in the nest. Wed it was there along with her egg for the day (I stole it). Clearly, much as the girls are afraid of the alpacas, she is so determined to lay out that she is taking her chances. Not that the alpacas are a threat. They had chickens before at their prior home, no big deal. Rainy today, not sure if she will go lay out or not. Here is a Google maps picture of the barn/pond area so you can get a bit oriented. The area I enclosed in is just to the right on the upper right of the outlined red area





I can walk past the alpacas and talk and they are OK with that. But they are nervous if I want to talk "face to face". Yesterday they alerted to a flock of turkeys in the NW field, the same area they saw a deer and alerted the prior day. Their alert noise is something like a higher pitched donkey bray.


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## frustratedearthmother

They are soooo pretty, and so is your scenery!


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## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> Oh I so feel for your daughter.  I have migraines but they've really been better as I get older.  Having one all the time? Wow...  That's so awful. Doctor at Dartmouth Hitchcock really helped but I don't need migraine meds anymore, thank goodness.
> 
> Are the alpacas pets? I love alpacas. I'm hoping this journal will have pictures of them...


Pets and fiber animals. Other than the 3 house cats (2 my wife's, 1 DD1s) I figure the animals need to "give back" something for my efforts to give them a decent life. We refer to the girls as "Spoiled butt chickens". Anyone from PETA that wants to claim keeping chickens for eggs is cruel would find it impossible to make their argument here. How many of them have dogs that are locked in their house or apartment all day waiting for their loving owners to come home and maybe take them for a walk?

The plan is that D1 with her migraine is not exactly employable so we need to find something she can do at home. How about "value added" fiber products?? We have a ~4' floor loom that my wife got from a college friend when his mother could no longer see well enough to use it. Sad part is we got it all put together, wife and D1 got a starter kit (placemats I think) 2 years ago and it hasn't even been opened. So not sure if the alpaca fiber WILL get made into something salable here. My wife's cousin has a spinning wheel (that she isn't ready to give up) and shears though I don't know if they are electric or manual. I have enough arthritis in my hands that I couldn't shear with manuals so I would have to buy an electric. Yes I could wait for Dan to come by next year, it was $35/animal last year, probably higher next year. Might be worth investing in my own and learning to do it. Maybe I can find a good used one on eBay or Craig's List. If I can do mine, maybe the lady NE would pay me to do hers. Less than $35, especially since I'd be REALLY new at it, so quite slow, but it would help pay for the equipment. So maybe it could be a family operation, we raise the animals, get the fiber off them and Sally spins it then sends it back for D1 to make something and sell it. 

Dan, the guy who shears around here (only one I've heard of from the neighbor to the NE (3 horses, 2 intact male alpacas) and the lady who owned mine)) didn't come or call back this year until it was too late to shear them so the poor boys had an uncomfortable quantity of warmth through the summer. We snacked and watered the boys and their 3 goats for 2 weeks while they were in Florida the end of August and other than one day, the boys were in their barn every day. They came out to get their snacks, eyeing us warily if we stayed by the feeders (opposite side of the fence) then headed straight back to their barn. I was worried they would be the same here but they have shown interest in seeing what I am doing and don't hide at all so I ASSUME they were just WAY too hot before.


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## NH homesteader

Wow that's expensive.  I think the best way to make money with fiber is doing just that,  taking the  whole thing from animal to finished project and doing it yourself. Sounds like a good plan. I'm going to attempt to do a similar thing with soap,  lotions, etc. With my goat milk.  I thought about  fiber animals but  I have too much going on right now! 

I do intend to learn to spin but more for fun.  My aunt,  who lives in VT, has been spinning for 30+ years and is going to teach me. 

Don't get me started on PETA! The real committed ones don't believe in keeping pets either.  At least they're not as hypocritical!


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## Bruce

About where does your aunt live in Vermont?


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## NH homesteader

Strafford. Near Tunbridge. Where are you? Way up north?


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## Bruce

Yep, 20 miles from the Canadian border on the west side. Guess I can't hit your aunt up for fiber spinning lessons for DD1  I was just north of Strafford for a short time on Saturday picking up DD2. She got a ride from school back to VT with a girl that lives in Chelsea. It is 1.5 hours from here. Beautiful fall colors in that area last weekend!


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## NH homesteader

I'm not far from her on the NH side.  I'm a half hour from White River Junction. It was beautiful,  they're starting to fall pretty fast now! I've been up near Burke Mountain,  we have friends there.  And I've driven through to NY way up north.  If there were more jobs up there we would love to  be that far north!


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## Latestarter

Thanks for starting the journal Bruce. You have a great looking property and the boys look great! Thanks for sharing the pics.


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## Bruce

Went out this morning expecting the usual routine. Say hi to the boys in the field, open the barn, toss kitchen scraps for the chickens after they rush out, go get BOSS for them and pellets for the alpacas, go back out, toss the BOSS, hand feed the alpacas at the gate.

But the boys had a different idea. All was as expected except the last part. When I got back outside, no more boys. I looked back into the barn and Teddy had come into the alley on their end. I guess they wanted to "dine in" so I took their pellets down that way. Laddie came in, then they both started to spook as I got closer so I rattled the pellets in the container and they stayed. Put some in each feeder and they each chose one.




Until Teddy decided he wanted what Laddie had and pushed him away. Laddie just switched feeders. Not sure if Teddy made out or not.

 

Then they went back to the field.


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## sadieml

For the past 5 or 6 years my DD and I have checked out pics of alpacas for sale locally.  We would love to have a few, mostly as pets, but we would certainly sell the fiber.  You could never leave an alpaca unshaven in SC all year long.  The heat would make that a death sentence.  Your boys are really beautiful.  I hope your wife and daughter are inspired by the gorgeous fleece.  BTW, around here darker fibers, especially true black, are sought after.  They sell for a lot more than the more common lighter fibers, even though those can be dyed almost any color.  There's just something about the naturally black and brown fiber, so your boys should be cash cows, er, alpacas...


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## babsbag

I am pretty sure that my friend pays way more than $35 to get her alpacas sheared. Yours are very pretty, love the white and brown one.


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## Bruce

Hmmm, I wonder how one knows "true black".

We got frost last night. The boys slept outside. Everyone sing along
"Frosty the alpaca ....."  



Laddie looks less frosted in the picture than he did when I first saw them, the sun hadn't hit him yet so the frost wasn't washed out by the light. Also, the picture was taken through a window screen which can't help.


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## Mike CHS

I'm not ready for frost yet but we are due within the next 2 to 4 weeks.


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## frustratedearthmother

Frost sounds pretty good, lol!  We're 93 right now - with the humidity our heat index is 103...  Started unloading square bales this morning - but not even going to think about finishing them until that sun heads a little more west...


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## frustratedearthmother

Double post


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## NH homesteader

Ughhh 95!? It was 28  when I woke up this morning.  The baby piggies have been spending a lot of time in their little house buried in hay! 

Apparently alpacas are not worried about the cold!


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## Bruce

Not these boys, at least not with a year plus of fleece and pretty mild (for Andean mountain animals) temperatures. It will be interesting to see what type of weather drives them inside the barn. It was raining some the other day and they just went to the new area I fenced in on the north end of the barn (where their access door is) and hung out away from the wind.

New morning behavior. They didn't go around into the barn for pellets like the other day and they didn't come to the gate. They were watching the private road that runs up the south side of our property. Eventually I saw an orange cat walking up the hill on the road. Teddy did as well and started alerting. After the cat disappeared, they came to the gate for pellets. Everything I've seen them alert on has been at least 100 yards away.


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## Bruce

The boys seem to have decided that it is safe to go in the barn other than for bribes (ie alpaca pellets). They aren't hanging out in the rain anymore. Last night Laddie was drinking from the bucket on the wall, first time I've observed it. I lowered it this morning to about alpaca shoulder height since in the old position, his head was up and his neck was right on the edge. Probably likely to have trouble if the water were too low. 

Of course they were concerned I might be going in to damage them in some fashion and went outside while I did the work though they came right back in when I was done (because it is raining again!).There is a gate in the alley that I have to open to access their end of the barn. Teddy went back out the door when I brought the water over. Laddie was looking nervous but stayed inside while I put the water in the bucket.

Now as to this nervousness. I ran across the guy I got them from (actually from his wife really) and asked just how they managed to get the hooves, Ivermectin, etc stuff done with them not wanting to be touched. He said "you have to manhandle them" and they trapped them in a small space before grabbing and "manhandling" them. No wonder these boys are shy about being touched. Touch always means "something bad is about to happen". Guess I'll be working on that.


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## Mike CHS

We are planning on building some handling chutes to make the "man handling" a little less drastic.


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## Bruce

That is how most people do it  Given they had 7 alpacas, I'm surprised they didn't have something of that nature.


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## Bruce

Been working on fencing about an acre. The existing fence you see around the barnyard/pond area is weasly
This is the modified plan



2 threads with questions and answers might be of interest to others:
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/fence-post-bracing.34779/
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/6-5-tposts-4-fence-hotwire-at-5-opinions-please.34768/

I have the line posts in down the west side for 4' field fencing though I need to make 2 H braces for a gate about halfway down. I hit ledge at 2' on the NW corner. Really wanted that post in 3' but it isn't going to happen. Hopefully the floating brace I plan to make will be enough to hold that post. I also wanted to make an H brace there coming south for a gate but I can't find anywhere even reasonably close that doesn't also soon hit ledge. Guess I'll have to figure something out next year.

The reason for not following the property line on the south side is a pile of really big rocks (*) around that tree and a rock lined swale for a culvert under the road. Didn't realize it was there. I wonder if that explains why the people who live on the other side of the road are suffering floods and driveway washout every year. They even had someone with a bulldozer work on it last year. No difference this year near as I can tell.

And if you are wondering why the south line on the right doesn't follow the existing fence line, it is because it is outside the property line. The guy we bought from said it was "grandfathered" but there is no mention of it in the deed. Why he built the riding ring with the north and south fences not parallel nor even the same angle to the fences running N/S is beyond me. They owned an additional 20 acres and split it off to make 8 building lots. That is where the road goes. In any case, I see no reason to build a fence on the Association's road right of way.

If you look at the first link you can see that I got a good suggestion from @farmerjan and expanded on it. I got the SW corner 6" post in today and all of the 7' T-posts (2' in the ground) for the cattle panels on the south side EXCEPT ONE! Hit a big rock at about 18". It happens to be a place where 2 CPs overlap so I can't move 1 post too far. I tried 6" left and right, no luck. I am going to pull one of the 6.5' T-posts (that were SUPPOSED to be 7' but someone at TSC had dumped MANY bundles of 6.5' posts on the 7' rack and when I bought the first 25 posts, the guy helping to load the car reasonably ASSUMED that the ones in the 7' rack were 7'. I had done the same). Anyway, I'm hoping having 1 post 6" less deep will be OK. @greybeard said they are pretty stable as long as the plate is in the ground. 

At @greybeard's suggestion, I bought two 12' corral panels to use as gates so they can be 5' high instead of 4' like standard "we don't care that you want your chickens to stay on one side of a fence" agricultural gates. That way I won't need to carry the hotwire over the gates and screw around with moving it out of the way when I open the gate, then put it back when I close the gate. One gate for the west line as mentioned and one on the east side between the two pieces of existing fence (except most of the lower fence was removed to make room for the concrete truck when the solar arrays were put in last December. So were 2 sections of the south fence. There is a falling apart wooden gate on too short and unstable posts in the east side fence, I will be replacing that. The 2 solar arrays are in that area between the not parallel E/W fences in the middle of the picture.


At some point I will make a fence that runs gate to gate (the ones mentioned) with an inline gate toward the east end so I can choose to have the alpacas in one pasture or the other.

I'm also thinking I will use @farmerjan's cattle panel idea for the short E/W sections projecting from the little barn.

Tomorrow I will work on an H brace for the SW corner so I can put a gate there. Probably a rework next year because I have only so much time (and energy, digging post holes in ground with rocks is not a quick task) to get this fence up so at the moment it will be bracing the fence between the SW corner and the mid point gate. And, hopefully get a 6" 8' post in the SE corner. The existing post is fairly stable but too short. Depending on how much energy I have (and how long it takes to put in those two 6" posts!) I'll start on the H braces for the gates. When I'm too low on energy to dig holes, I'll fix the cattle panels to the T-posts I put in today.

* I have mentioned that prior owners seem to like to put rocks where I want to dig holes or put in posts, right?


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## Mike CHS

We know what you are going through with the rocks.


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## NH homesteader

I have to get my husband to help me do fencing because I am really good at finding  rocks. He seems to be able to at least dodge them well enough to get a t-post in! We have weird soil here too, it's almost like clay.  And loves to turn to mud.  So we have a lot of muddy rocks...  Yay us.


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## Latestarter

Man Bruce... that's a pretty big barn you got there! About time you started getting some real farm animals to put it to use!  My fencing fun hasn't begun just yet but it's not to far in the future. I feel for ya!


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## babsbag

My soil is rock with a little dirt thrown in just to tease me. Its holding capacity for water is zip, zero, ziltch, which makes my orchard a challenge to water.  

I need to go and look at these corral panels.


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## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> I have to get my husband to help me do fencing because I am really good at finding  rocks. He seems to be able to at least dodge them well enough to get a t-post in! We have weird soil here too, it's almost like clay.  And loves to turn to mud.  So we have a lot of muddy rocks...  Yay us.



Same here! Digging that hole for the 6" post I think I was slamming a stone down and compacting the clay even more than usual. Finally got to where I couldn't make any progress and got out the breaker bar and 3.5' rebar with a point on the end. Finally worked around a rock that was flat and about 8" in diameter. Then I had to use the rebar to loosen up the stuff in the bottom of the hole to make more progress. By the time I finally got the hole deep enough, it was a bit too deep. Put that flat rock on the bottom then the post was 5' out of the ground. 

There is clay mud with alpaca prints in it just outside their door, and yep , kinda slimy after a rain.


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## Baymule

I feel for your DD1. While I don't have migraines, I have chemical sensitivities that mess me up. I totally understand about the laundry STINK products. A whiff of those and my face feels like it's on fire. I'll say this, having this problem sure makes us lead a chemical free life and we're probably healthier for it. I guess you've tried everything for DD1's migraines, what a terrible thing for her.


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## Bruce

Yep, lots of different drugs, acupuncture, even Botox. She is on Candesartan now and that seems to be helping keep the episodic "add on" migraines down. Does nothing for the base migraine though.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Man Bruce... that's a pretty big barn you got there! About time you started getting some real farm animals to put it to use!  My fencing fun hasn't begun just yet but it's not to far in the future. I feel for ya!


Big
And very old
And not in the best of shape 

There are 5 bents in the original barn.

The north one is the workshop
The next one south is FULL of stuff ripped out of the north building of the house when it was rebuilt 3 years ago. It is my "I need a piece of wood" pile. Or I need a door. Or ...
The middle one is inaccessible unless you scale a wall from a bent on either side of it. Structurally it appears there was originally a door to the outside. PROBABLY that is where the cows lived in the 1800's. And apparently cows were a lot smaller then, the door framing isn't more than 3' or so wide. Why someone closed it is beyond me, it is covered over on the outside with vertical board covered with horizontal shiplap, the stuff that was popular in the early 1900s. Has it REALLY been closed off for nearly 100 years?? Nothing in that bent but stuff tossed there by prior owners. I did clear out the metal a couple of months ago and took it to the scrap place. Got about $4. The copper pipe was worth a lot more 
The next one south is the drive bay. My 33 bales of hay for the alpacas, dump cart, garden tractor and blower for the tractor live there
The south one is just a mess of dirt and rocks. Originally it would have been the hay mow (rhymes with cow). No overhead trolley so they must have pitched it off the wagons.


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## Mini Horses

Well, still a big barn!!  

No suggestions for migraines that haven't already been said.

Soil -- WOW, I am so, so lucky.  Great soil, then sand, no rock!
The largest rocks I have are out of my Pennsylvania hay -- pd for by the pound.  I swear they throw it in there 
By the way, I really like the brown/white alpaca.


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## Bruce

I'll tell Laddie you like him

Truthfully, Teddie is a better animal. He has a flat back where Laddie seems a bit humped. And Teddy's teeth (front anyway, haven't see the rear ones) look like he went to the orthodontist. I'm still trying to figure out if Laddie is missing one or if it is just way forward and low. I think Kelly said Teddy's fiber is better as well. I will find out when they are sheared next summer.

Shall I mention that a lot of the barn sills are missing and that I stuck 600 roofing screws in the roof of the shed part this summer to cut down on the leaks? It is in better shape than when we bought the place. 2 rafters replaced (one was braced to the ground below when the prior owners bought the place in 1999 and they did NOTHING about it. Yet they had money to put in a pool, have horses, etc), the sill on the west side of the original barn (shed added probably in the earlier part of the 1900s) was cracked about 15' in from the SW corner and the corner was dropped about 18". This must have happened a LONG time ago since the repair guys had to take some of the shiplap off because it was keeping them from raising the corner to level. They scarfed in a replacement piece and did the same on the top plate. I'm sure as the SW corner sank (no decent support under the corner post! SHAMEFUL) it pulled down on both the plate and sill until they cracked. All the new looking stuff in the middle are temporary supports they had to make to hold things up while they did the repairs.


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## Mike CHS

I need to post a picture of the lean-to to on my shed where they put two of three legs on top of cinder blocks instead of in the ground.


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## Bruce

They won't rot if they aren't in the ground 

Maybe they only had one long post and didn't want to cut it off, too wasteful.


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## Mini Horses

With some of the rocks found when just driving a fence post I could see why they didn't dig.  Oooops....LOL

Another farm I had a big OLD barn.  At least 90 yr old and still there today.   Had some foundation work done on the drive thru side, otherwise they had everything on huge stone, in ground.   One side had settled a little, so it was jacked & some concrete added at that area.   Amazing old wood & wood work in it.   Nice layout, too.  Raised walkthrough in center for feed and holes to access stalls on each side.  Big loft for hay.

My barn isn't like the grand old ones -- didn't need it.   But, it is built on a concrete foundation with 3 block up, then the wood, like a house would be.   Has trusses, so interior stalls can all be removed and have just an open building.   Inside, those dividers are in ground.  And the feed, tack, work room has concrete floor.   It's 24X38 with 14X14 feed room & a 12X24 roofed lounge area at one end.    Run in barns in fields, so this one isn't used much except kidding time or something "special" or sick that may need me to have containment.     I have a trailer for hay, so only have a few bales in this one at any one time. Feed barrels in there & used.   Works for me.


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## Baymule

I love old barns. Since our place didn't have an old barn, we built a new one. I guess when we are dead and gone, it will have earned it's "character".


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## CntryBoy777

Hey Bruce....I had a thought about your fencing situation and I in no way extremely knowledgeable about it...but, have ya thought about getting a hole in the rocks...putting in concrete and using J-bolts to secure a post or 4x4 to?...the hole doesn't have to be but about 8-10" deep....may save you time, energy, and Pain....


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## Bruce

Hmmm. Well I have my 6" diameter 8' treated post and a 2' deep hole down to the ledge. I don't know if sticking a J-bolt or two in the post and concrete would make it more sturdy or not.

I imagine if I had a hammer drill I could make a hole in the ledge for a piece of rebar .. but I don't. I do have some drill bits for stone though. Might be worth seeing if I can make a dent with that. Not sure though. I seem to have 4 kinds of rock.

Stuff buried by prior owners - PITA!!!!
Stuff buried by the glaciers eons ago - tend to be smaller and not dumped all over each other. Still a pain but I have been able to work those out - so far
sedimentary ledge that breaks out in chunks. I can drive rebar down into this (and then have a heck of a time getting it back out!). The SE edge of the pond is this stuff and it is easy to see the structure because a seed will sprout there, the roots start to spread and open a slight crack which then gets dirt blown in making more seed bed. Eventually the roots crack out a piece of rock, usually around 4"x4" x anything from 1/2" to "long". Of course this takes a LONG time.
Serious solid stone ledge. Can't break through it. I took this picture a couple of years ago when I was seeing which "rip up the mower blades" rocks I could pull out (no machinery). There was about 4" of stone showing but as you see that is my left hand holding up turf and almost zero dirt up off the rock as hit heads down into the ground. 
  It is either a HUGE boulder or a large piece of ledge. This is the kind of thing I think I hit at the NW corner of my project.


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## CntryBoy777

Well with so much underground Rock...nothing will be digging under the fence....I know I am a Redneck...but, why not just use the 4x6s horizontally on the ground as a stabilizer and nailer for your fence...with the elevation differences they can be filled up with all that Rock...nothing says a fence has to be attached to a post set in the ground...so save yourself some Work and Frustration by just using what ya have to your 'Advantage'...it would even stabilize cattle panels if ya go that route....I may be Crazy but just trying to Help ya!!


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## Bruce

There are certainly places where nothing will dig under the fence. For example, the gate at the north end of the barn. You can't stick a gardening fork 2" into the ground ANYWHERE close to it without hitting some of the stuff buried by the prior owner.

So far I haven't hit anything close enough to the surface to keep something from digging under, just not deep enough to get a 6" post 3' in everywhere I want them. Like I WANT a gate at the NW corner but other than cementing in another post for an H-brace to the corner post, I don't know how I can do it. I'll try digging in a few places going south from that corner and see if I can find a spot. If not, maybe I can find something going east not too far. I'm already planning a gate going into the area west of the barn (there is a rotting wood gate there in the existing weasley fence) but it is only 16' from the gate at the end of the barn. That leaves ~130' to the NW corner and while it wouldn't kill a person to go up to a gate and back down, kind of a PITA if you are on the inside at the NW corner and want to be on the other side of the fence.

I could certainly pile rocks along the fence line though I would really need a tractor with FEL, some of the rocks in the pile on the north side of the barn are pretty darned big. I might end up doing that at the low area along the N fence line. It gets pretty mushy there. I don't know if it is water seeping out of the pond ( NO idea how the retaining "wall" in the pond is built, might just be dirt and mud), high water table there or maybe there is a lot of ledge underneath and the water has nowhere to go. Certainly would love to have the ability to dig a trench down toward the natural wetland and drain that water off. 

Yesterday I made the floating brace for the SE corner, amazing how stiff that post is even though it is braced in only 1 direction. I don't need to brace it going west since I'm using cattle panels on the south fence line. Today I put in the line posts for the east side up to the H-brace for the gate. Ran shy 3 posts so not QUITE done with that. I also cemented in the NW corner post and wired the H-brace at the SW corner.


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## Bruce

Bought 7 more wood posts and 25 more 7' T-posts today. One of the guys at TSC said "boy you sure can get a lot in a Prius". The other guys said "You should have seen it last week!" and detailed all I put in, on and behind the car.

Got the floating brace that runs south on the west line from the NW corner (the cemented post) in and wired. Still need to install an H brace and floating braced post for a gate about midway in that line. 

Cut the post for the floating brace that will run east from the NW post but ran out of light so I haven't positioned the rock nor wired it yet. Still need to build the double H at the east end of the north fence line (the gate post is already in with a 10' pipe gate on it) and put in a floating braced post ~13' west of that for a gate strike post then the 13 T-posts for the field fence.

Need a strike post for the gate in the East line and then it will be time to raise some fence. 

Slow but steady I guess, I feel like a turtle


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like ya made some really good Progress!!.......sure have much Less to go than when ya Started...and every step Forward...is another step Less to Go!!


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## Mini Horses

OK I have a "share" for you.    Having animals means you just never know when you may need to quickly go from one field to another and a gate is preferable but I have made some of the H supports in my fences into a ladder for myself.   I just nailed a couple extra 2X4 slats on each side and I can climb them quickly.    You could actually put stairs on each side -- of course for dogs & goats you would need to be sure to enclose them so that they would not be able to walk up & out 

Just a thought for that rocky corner.   Of course this is ok for people, not equipment & vehicles.   But, I have these in several places and have used them often to move quickly across a fence.
You can cover any hot wire in that one spot with some rubber tubing.....or run it  under the step, etc.

I climb a lot of fence & gates here.....trees were always a favorite thing for me.  Keeps you limber.


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## Bruce

Ah, just the thing! I could leave a ladder by the tree on the inside and one by the tree on the outside. If I were young and spry, I could skip those and pull myself up to the top of the post to get over. Hmmm, a rope ladder stored on top of the post would be easier. Given my level of "life experience" maybe a rope ladder with solid rungs would be better.

You do think out of the box @Mini Horses !


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## Bruce

Got the double H brace at the top of the North line in, still need to add cross brace wires though. Got the NW corner post done including wire on the floating brace. And I got the brace wires on the H brace at the north end of the East line. I posted pictures in the fence post bracing: thread http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/fence-post-bracing.34779/page-5#post-456542


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## Bruce

Got the last 3 T-posts set in the East line, modified a corral panel to become a gate and hung that allowing me to set the strike post. That post will likely become the east end of a cross fence, planning to put a matching gate in the west line directly opposite it. Now that I have one in, I can use that hinge post to strike post measurement for the posts for the other 2 gates I am planning. It is somewhat critical because I'm using these: 






Love them, no messing around with chains, just swing the gate back toward the strike post as you pass through and it will latch itself. BTW, should you buy this type latch, put the pin side on the gate with one bolt above a cross pipe, the other under it. That way it won't rotate when the gate is closed and you don't need to put screw in the hole in the vertical pipe to keep it from rotating. 

Got the wire on the top of the double H on the north line, need to get more brace wire.

The strike post I put in is about 2' farther north than the hinge side post in the old fence and 12'+ from the hinge side post in the new line. As such I didn't need to remove the old post first. As with the new hinge post I hit a lot of pea stone, larger stones lower down to 36" (where I stopped!) and ... 

A 4" PVC pipe running N/S just east of the hole I was digging and the old fence line. So more than likely the old strike post hole was not dug anymore than the 1' needed for concrete (which was not sufficient to keep the post stable). I can only guess that the original fence ran about at the edge of the leach field. But there is no fabric covering the stone nor the PVC pipe as one would expect. So MAYBE there is a "field" of pea stone over larger stone so the water from the leach field can flow downhill in the general direction of the pond. Not sure why the other end of the H-brace (8' away) for the gate I just hung was in a sandy clay mix, no stones.


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## Baymule

I want to give you a pat on the back and tell you what a fantastic job you are doing.  Fencing is hard work.  Fencing over a rock quarry is even harder.  It is easy to get discouraged when things are harder than they should be, just wanted to let you know that your fencing fans are cheering for you.


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## Bruce

Thanks @Baymule  

4 more 6" wood posts to put in, 1 H-brace and 2 floating brace. One floating brace is in the N line where I don't expect to find a problem digging. The other 3 posts , they are on the west line where all the ledge is. And since they are for a gate, there isn't a "move it 6 or 12 inches" solution if I hit ledge. The hinge and strike posts HAVE to be the right distance apart. I can fudge a bit if I get longer bolt hooks. TSC seems to have only the 8" 5/8 hooks in the store even though they show 10" and 12" online. There isn't much "play" with an 8" bolt hook in a 6" post. I think I'll order some longer ones.


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## NH homesteader

Trying to read this makes me very appreciative of my husband the resident  fence maker.  My eyes glaze  over...  I have no idea what any of it means. Not at all how my brain  works.


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## Mike CHS

I can appreciate putting fence up on rock slab land and I am pretty sure that as bad as ours has been, Bruce's is worse.


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## Bruce

Not much progress to show for the last 3 days. Dug 5 holes, 2 in the north line. I was only going to do 1 there and put a floating brace on it but hit ledge at about 2.5' ... and soggy then drippy wet clay at 2'. Figured I should have an H-brace instead of a floating one. Well both holes are half filled with water now so I guess it is a floating post either way  

I pounded my 3' pointed piece of rebar in the 3 places I wanted posts in the west line for a gate. Seemed to make it at least 2.5' so figured I was good. Started on the strike post. Got down about 2.5' and hit a rock dead center so I moved the hole north a few inches (meaning the rock was setting the location of the hinge side post) and got to 3'.

Started on the hole for the hinge post of the H-brace. Got down about 2', hit a rock. It looked like one I could get out but given the time of day I figured I shouldn't be banging on metal bars with the hand sledge and started on the south side of the H-brace. Got that dug yesterday and went back to the hinge side post and got the rock out (~6"x4"x12"), dug some more. Hit a rock. Found some edges so it isn't ledge. Dug some more to see if I could maybe get it out since it needs to be pretty close to 12' 2.5" from the strike post. Got dark. 

This morning I decided I was going to fail on this rock  and dug on the south side (bottom in the picture) of the rock to 3' meaning I needed to dig out the strike post hole again only this time the "in the way rock" would be on the north side of the hole. And I either have to re-dig the south hole or will have to shorten the brace post. Had to go to town so only had an hour. When I got back I only had 45 minutes before needing to go out again, returning after dark. Got the hinge side post in the right location and depth. Plumbed it, tamped in some dirt, plumbed it, tamped in some dirt ... until the hole was about half full. Checked the line visually (no string up) and saw that it must have moved a couple of inches out of line as I was tamping and plumbing so tomorrow I'll have to pull the post, dig it out and try again. HOPEFULLY I will get the H-brace, strike post and floating brace in tomorrow. 

I'm tired of digging rocks.

Still not sure what to do about the water holes. If I have a tractor and a backhoe I could dig a trench downhill to the side and fill it with stone, but I don't. I saw one suggestion where a person got 8" PVC and caps, cut the pipe to be ~6" above grade when installed cap side down in the wet hole (water removed first) and fill with pea stone. Seems like that would work to keep the post from being in wet clay and rotting.


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## Bruce

Got the 3 holes re-dug and posts in for the gate in the west fence line. H-brace is wired. Tomorrow I have to make and wire the floating brace for the strike side. Then time to make fence stretchers so I can raise the field fence on the east and west sides. 

D1 tied some old polywire horizontally through the first 2 full size openings in the cattle panels for the "riding ring" side of the south fence line so the chickens can't get through. I figure they aren't agile enough to fly up into the higher openings. If that proves to be untrue, I guess more work will need to be done. Still need to do the rest of the panels for the south line. They could be done after the panels are attached to the T-posts but I think it is easier to turn them upside down and do the work at a comfortable height.


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## Bruce

Got the floating brace on the strike post for the gate in the west fence line done. Rolled the 330' of field fence from the SW post down hill to the NW post (yes, I had the south end held down . Got the fence wired around the NW post. That bottom wire is a PITA on a floating brace with the brace wire down there as well. Sure don't want to tie the brace wire into the fence. Going to have rain all day tomorrow and snow all day Monday. 

Guess tomorrow I'll be making 2 fence stretchers so I can raise the fence (after I wire it to the SW post!) and cutting the connectors off the corral panel I'll be using as a gate. And cleaning the house up (meaning finding somewhere for all the clutter) since T-day is coming up fast.


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## Bruce

Got the fence post stretchers made yesterday. Only got part way through modifying the corral panel, I need a new metal cutting blade for my oscillating tool.

Today I wired the field fence to the SW corner post (NW done a couple of days ago) then set up the cattle panels for the west side of the south line. Only put 2 clips on them to hold them for now. Started stretching the west line. Not totally enamored with the "pull two pieces from the middle" thing though. Works OK while you are standing there cranking but when you need to go down the fence line to make sure nothing is getting hung up the stretchers can fall (assuming you have no assistants) and drop the fence. Also not entirely sure what happens when one end is longer than the other. Might end up getting the shorter end done but the longer one might not yet be tight.

Got dark so I haven't finished that and next time I work on it I'll try to see if there is an issue with one end getting tight before the other. If the shorter one does get tight first, at least that is the one that ties off to the H-brace which I can use to pull the long end. Wouldn't work the other way around since my strike post is using a floating brace.

I've decided that the north line will be all hotwire for this winter. No time to deal with the wet holes in the ground and figuring out how to stretch fence over such an elevation change (down then up) without having the fence pull the T-posts out vertically. The chickens don't go out in the snow so I don't need to concern myself with them getting through that line for many months.


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## Bruce

Got the west fence stretched and attached. Got the corral panel "modified" so it can be a gate. Still need to install the hardware on it and the post and get field fence over the gate so the chickens can't go through or under. 

Got the cattle panels attached from the SW corner post to almost the northeast corner of the "jog" around the tree at the "riding ring". There is about an 8' gap. I have the panel that goes north from the SW corner of the "riding ring" up on its 3 posts. Need to figure out how best to join the panel that will fill the gap with that panel. Problem is, the 16' panel is about 3' too long AND it hit the post pretty much dead in the middle of 2 verticals. If it were field fence I could just tie it back on itself but no way am I going to attempt that with cattle panel "wire" given how much trouble it is to bend the 10 gauge top and bottom wires on the field fence. Perhaps I can bend it 90 degrees??


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## Bruce

A bit more progress today. 

Removed old fence posts (2 broke when I tried to pull them, rot. All others pulled with no tools) and railing on the east line up to the veg garden.
Found the hog ring pliers and hog rings that I bought Saturday but couldn't find Sunday  and used them to connect the corners of the cattle panels that make the jog around the tree on the south line. 
Got the cattle panel at the SE corner cut (around brace wire and floating brace post) and connected to the post. 
Got the S&G 4' fence wired around the post at that corner. I find the 10 gauge top and bottom wires a PITA to get tied around the post. All the T-posts for the east line are already installed, hopefully will stretch that section to the H-brace at the gate tomorrow. 
Attached the strike side of the 2 way gate latch installed in the east fence line, just need to get wire fencing over the corral panel gate to keep smaller animals like chickens inside. 
Installed the bolt hooks for the gate in the west line. That gate also needs fencing installed over it.


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## frustratedearthmother

Making progress!


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## norseofcourse

I get wore out reading your posts... you're getting an amazing amount of work done!


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## Mike CHS

So what do you do with all your spare time Bruce? 

You are making some great progress and taking advantage of the cooler weather.


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## NH homesteader

Umm "cooler"  meaning COLD! I will admit I have had a hard time adjusting this season and have been hibernating inside an awful lot


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## Bruce

Near (or below) freezing and wet isn't my idea of a good time to be working outside kneeling in the snow/dirt/mud @Mike CHS !

I was going to stretch the east fence line today but it was cold and rainy. The corral panel for the west line gate was already in the shop where I had cut off the connectors so I got field fence wired to that today. Drilled holes in the vertical ends of the panel, threaded them through and tied them back onto themselves on the strike side. Put the fence puller on the free end of the fencing, stretched it and attached it to the gate the same way on the hinge side. Have I ever mentioned that the 10 gauge top and bottom wire is a PITA to work with? My hands are complaining at me. A lot.


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## Bruce

Got the gate up on the west line today. I had managed to screw up measuring when I put in the bolt hooks the other day and had to reinstall them 3" lower before I could hang the gate. Then appointments and no more work for the day. The west line now needs only the hotwire. I ordered the charger and insulators, they should be here Monday. HOPEFULLY (!!!) I'll have the rest of the "hard" fencing up by then, weather permitting. I need to rearrange the existing 3 grounding rods since they are in a triangular shape no more than 2 or 3 feet from each other. A far cry from the 10' minimum suggested (required??).


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## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> Found the hog ring pliers and hog rings that I bought Saturday but couldn't find Sunday  and used them to connect the corners of the cattle panels that make the jog around the tree on the south line.



GOOD JOB!!  I normally do not find such things until I've bought more and used them!  

You are getting so much done.   It's warmer here and I would love for you to come and rework some of my fence while you are "on a roll"


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## Baymule

Fencing in cold weather under the rocky circumstances you have is a series of small victories. Each post I read, I see a victory. Every day that you get something done on your fence is cause for celebration. If you just keep doing a little each day, weather and life in general permitting, then you will have a good fence before you know it.


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## Bruce

Sorry @Mini Horses I think my hands are not all that far from boycotting more fencing for awhile 

I try to keep reminding myself of that @Baymule  Kinda concerned about those grounding rods since they are just outside the north end of the barn - the area I enclosed before the alpacas came. The same location where there is a massive amount of buried rock and concrete chunks barely under the surface. Digging a trench west may not be possible and I'll have to go up the barn wall over the double doors and down the west wall where I HOPE no one buried rocks. I certainly can not dig a trench east and hope to find somewhere I can pound a rod 6' into the ground 10' from one in the existing location.


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## Mike CHS

I dug 5 trial holes for my corner posts now that I'm almost on my bottom land and did not hit any rocks other than the first try (sheared two shear bolts on the auger but got it dug).

It's nice to finally be able to use the auger.


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## Baymule

All you can do is the best you can. Our fencing has been an on again, off again thing. We are so close to being finished, but life keeps getting in the way. Been babysitting 2 month old grand daughter and that puts the brakes on everything. At mid term (parents are teachers) she will go to day care, she'll be 4 months old by then.


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I dug 5 trial holes for my corner posts now that I'm almost on my bottom land and did not hit any rocks other than the first try (sheared two shear bolts on the auger but got it dug).
> 
> It's nice to finally be able to use the auger.




I've dug enough rocks that I think I have "paid" for others to be spared.


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## Bruce

Got the sheep and goat fence pulled to the H-brace for the gate in the east line. All wired to the wood posts and wire clipped to the T-posts. Need to get fencing on the gate and put in a couple of T-posts from the strike post going north for a single cattle panel. From there the fence turns east to the SW corner of the little barn. 

I also remembered that gap in the south cattle panel fence line where it goes around the tree and rock pile. I ended up using the claw hammer to bend the wires on the panel that comes north 13' from the SW corner of the "riding ring" to make it turn west. Now I need to cut a panel in half and fill in the gap then the south line will be done except for the hotwire.


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## Bruce

Today's installment starts with a mini-rant. Mr. NOAA said .02" of rain between 8 AM and noon. How about .02" per 20 minute segment for a decent part of that time? He also said nothing about it spitting mini frozen bits of water later in the day.

Progress for the day -

Got a piece of cattle panel in the south fence line gap, done except for hotwire.
Got the posts and cattle panel in on the north side of the east line. Carefully avoided the underground power line that runs from the solar panels to the house. 
Got the fencing wired into the strike side of the gate for the east line and holes drilled on the hinge side. Dang this takes me forever! Hard on the joints too.
Moved a roll of 2x4 wire fencing that had run from the NW corner of the "riding ring" to the cheesy fence that currently encloses the barnyard (to keep the chickens from going too far into the west field). It now closes off the space between the old fence at the SW corner to the gate strike post in the new west fence line. Pretty much a linear extension of the old fence. I will remove that when I get the north fence line done which will HOPEFULLY be early next week after the fence charger and insulators arrive.
Tomorrow morning I will rehang the gate and use the brace post on the H-brace to tension the wire on the gate before attaching the hinge side. I think this will be better than doing it in the shop like I did the last time:

Ratchet strap from the metal work bench to the panel to keep it from moving when I tension the wire.
Ratchet strap connected to the puller at the bottom and to a leg of the table saw

Ratchet strap connected to the puller at the top and to side rail on the table saw
Ratchet strap from a gap in the wood floor the other leg on the table saw when it started moving as I tensioned the wire.
Then I can let the boys out into the new area as far as the gate in the new west fence line. They have pretty much eaten down everything in their current area. While they are out (assuming the go out!) I plan to put in the cattle panels that run to the SW corner of the little barn to the panel I put in today to complete the east fence line. There are some fence posts and crummy fence I need to take out before I can put in the T-posts and 3 cattle panels. Best that the boys not think they want to come out into the backyard!

Isn't this just a dandy looking fence line? Glad alpacas don't test fences.



All weather dependant of course. Mr. NOAA says it is going to snow but only .1" between 10 PM tonight and 8 PM tomorrow. We will see.


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## NH homesteader

Mr.  NOAA gave you our forecast apparently.  It rained a teeny bit for about 10 minutes today.  That's it.


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## norseofcourse

Bruce said:


> Today's installment starts with a mini-rant. Mr. NOAA said .02" of rain between 8 AM and noon. How about .02" per 20 minute segment for a decent part of that time? He also said nothing about it spitting mini frozen bits of water later in the day.


And yet, they make predictions for what the weather for the entire winter will be like...
They are really good at explaining why the weather didn't turn out like they predicted, but with all the extra technology that's been developed in the past several decades, forecasting is still often hit or miss.


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## CntryBoy777

Now a days all they do is Read what the Computer spits out, so it is really Decided by a computer Programmer....GIGO


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## Baymule

Wow....that really IS a Jim-Dandy fence ya' got there!  I admire your perseverance in fence building. You will get it done and it will be so nice!


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## Mike CHS

I can truly say that fence is unique.    Any idea what the purpose was - chicken pen?


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## CntryBoy777

I thought it looked like some kind of Abstract Art...


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## Baymule

I think it is a crab trap--all opened up and repurposed as a alpaca trap.


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## Bruce

Hard to say exactly. Some of the mess, the hotwire tape, was a failed attempt on my part to keep the chickens from going over. The tall chicken wire was something DD1 and I trashed together before we went out to CA for my nephew's wedding in Sept so the lady that was taking care of the chickens (*) wouldn't have to worry about them escaping their jail. You should see them complain about not being allowed out of that area behind the barns! Spoiled girls.

According to the people we bought from, at one point or another they had pretty much every type of common farm animal except bovines. The lower part of the little barn (it would be to the right in that picture) is divided in 2, most likely by the owner before the jackass we bought from based on the quality of the divider or even the one before that (transfer happened in the 50's). At some point it housed chickens on one side (maybe by the guy we bought from, has his mark of cr@p construction). There is a ramp and door on each side big enough for pigs or turkeys and broken down pens outside the barn. The roof is bad so we aren't currently using it for anything. Plus the fieldstone foundation is quite "gappie", no way to make it predator proof for chickens. He lost chickens in there to weasels, quelle surprise! 

Most of the rest of the fence is similar, way undersized posts (1.5" some maybe 2.5") barely in the ground, not PT. Any can be pulled out by hand. They had chicken wire held up by boards that ran post to post and at ground level with vertical boards between the posts for extra support. But again, not PT, rotting and pulling down the chicken wire they were supposed to be supporting. There was hotwire on it as well which I assume is what kept the horses in. There was hotwire on the perimeter and cross fencing in the rest of the field areas. Similar undersized pointed posts with little more than the point in the ground. Broken hotwire all over and hiding in the grass in the field, often 10' or 15' into the field. I "caught" it more than once mowing and even walking. I've pulled it all out and the posts as well since they are more of a menace than something with function. At some point I will put in a new perimeter fence with hotwire on T-posts. Don't look for pictures of that anytime soon.  

* The one that gave us the alpacas after we got back and I finished my fencing on the north end of the barn.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> I thought it looked like some kind of Abstract Art...


Uh oh. You mean I have to keep it after I finish my "should last a few decades" fencing project?


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## CntryBoy777

Well Bruce...they say that 'Beauty' is in the eye of the Beholder....and I have no 'Artistic Taste'....but it looks as good as some of the stuff on that 'Antique Roadshow' on PBS ....


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## Bruce

Here is a picture of the existing north fence line. When I patched up the entire fence 3 years ago (pulling off the rotted top horizontals and running bare wire through the chicken wire to hold it up) this section was so bad I just ran a 100' roll of 4' 2x4 fencing up the outside.  You can tell the size of the posts based on the yellow insulators nailed into the tops of them.


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## Mike CHS

If nothing else you have some good looking grass there.


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## Bruce

True, it does grow pretty well. I pay Al to mow it with his sickle bar mower sometime in July. Since there is nothing eating it, it just grows and grows. Had to take it slow mowing for the fence line. That spot also happens to be where it gets squishy. If I had the machinery I'd dig a curtain drain downhill (left) to the natural wetland. But I don't.


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## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> If nothing else you have some good looking grass there.


Always the encourager!


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## Bruce

Got fencing on the gate for the east fence line yesterday, ran some fence from the gate strike post in the new west line to the SW corner of the old fence line. I opened the fencing from the existing area to the new part south of it. Figured the boys would be interested in seeing if the grass was greener on the other side but even though I went through it several times they didn't venture out. But this morning they were over in the "riding ring" area so I guess they got brave. They spent most of today in the "new" area but bedded down near the pond in the old area.

This was taken from the kitchen window this morning.

 

Got the T-posts in for the north line today. 13 posts but I "installed" at least 20 - kept hitting immovable objects about 18" down. 

Old north fence line and posts for new line. Mine isn't perfectly straight but I think I did better than he did:


And finished the section that runs west from the little barn with all the "maybe this will keep the chickens in" stuff removed. I expect it was a bit straighter when he installed it but a scrawny post a foot in the ground just doesn't hold up. 8 more posts and 2+ cattle panels there.

Old fence line to little barn:


The fence charger came yesterday and the insulators, etc from Premier 1 are scheduled to show up tomorrow. It will be dark based on when UPS comes by our house so I will start the hotwire on Tuesday.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds and Looks like all the Work and perseverance is starting to 'Pay Off' for ya....and the Boys will appreciate the 'New' area to roam around in....Good Job!!


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## Baymule

All your hard work is paying off. Opening the fencing into the new area for the alpacas is HUGE!!!


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## Mike CHS

As always, I can relate to your "immovable objects" but you are making some awesome progress.


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## Bruce

Thanks all, it does feel like the light in the tunnel may NOT be the light on a locomotive after all  

I hope to have it all finished by the end of the day Thursday. I would like it to be sooner but since I figure the hotwire will take a day and using my wife's "everything takes 3X what you think it will" factor, Thursday is probably a safer bet.

I have to rewire the outlet where the charger will go. Prior owner was an electrical "wiz" NOT! There is no ground according to my tester. In fact he shouldn't so much as touch a switch to turn lights on and off as far as I'm concerned. Easy enough to do tomorrow. And I need to see what I can do with the 3 existing grounding rods that are much too close together to be of value. 

NOAA says skies clearing tonight then going right back to 100% by morning and snow all day. Oh well, at least today was dry. 

Once they got brave, the boys spent most of the day in the new area. They bedded down near the pond, to the right of where they are in the picture. I've seen them in that spot many a morning. Earlier I saw them running full tilt from the south end of the new area to the old area. Gotta be more fun to go "pedal to the metal" when you don't have to hit the brakes as soon as you get to top speed.


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## Baymule

Doesn't it give you great satisfaction to see them enjoying the fruits of your labors?


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## Latestarter

Really looking great Bruce. I'm sure you'll enjoy the "cleaned up" view much more and of course your new hobby - alpacas, are going to have so much more room to enjoy! Might even give you enough fenced pasture to consider dairy goats or something  I can't remember... is your DD1 against dairy products too?


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## Bruce

She isn't against dairy products. However there is the small issue of how one gets a dairy girl ready to milk - what do you do with the offspring that are not female? Unless there is a big market for field and forest clearing wethers we have a problem. And yes she distances her brain from that fact when we buy dairy at the grocery store.


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## NH homesteader

There is a fair amount of a market for wethers in NH and VT. For Nigerians anyway.  

Buying from the grocery store is way worse than what happens to farm raised offspring.  I know that you know that...  And of course you can't control what the buyers do with goats you sell them.  It is hard.  If I could milk without having kids that I have to sell,  I would do it too!


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## Bruce

That is the problem. Not only could she not tolerate us eating any animal we raised here, she couldn't tolerate someone else doing so.


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## NH homesteader

Are you and your wife vegetarians? 

At least you get to choose who you sell to. I won't sell to anyone I don't believe will raise them well.

I used to be a vegetarian...


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## CntryBoy777

Wow!!....and Look at ya Now.......that is something I could never consider doing....in fact, I feel 'Cheated' if there isn't some kind of meat on the plate....whether a couple of pcs of Bacon, slice of Spam, or something....even hock or fatback in the pot of beans....Something........even some Bologna...


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## NH homesteader

I've got a lot of opinions on the subject. For the sake of brevity I'll just say I'm not anymore! Lol I also had health issues when I didn't eat meat.


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## CntryBoy777

Well Bruce did ya get that Snow today?


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## Bruce

I'm a meatatarian  Wife loves beef, fish, bacon, ham. Not big on chicken unless mixed in with other stuff, will eat pork chops if she gets a lot of sauerkraut with it. She's OK with vegetarian stuff too, as am I but no where near daily.

Yep we got snow @CntryBoy777, at least 2 inches. Cold feet and hands. The boys watched as I dealt with the ungrounded outlet. The ground wire coming in was neatly twisted together with the ground wire going out. For some reason the outlet that feeds to this one was grounded. I added a pigtail to the ground screw on the outlet and voila, the tester is happy now.

I have no idea what this guy was thinking when he wired stuff. At least this one had the hot and neutral on the proper screws. I think he got that wrong on well over 50% of the outlets I've looked at. There MIGHT be a reason the words "white" and "black" are on the back of the outlets. And there MIGHT be a reason the screws are a different color. 

The worst one was the outlet in the barn workshop just outside the breaker box. It was in a metal box with a light switch. Maybe someone told him you don't need to run a ground to the outlet if it is in a metal box and gray plastic looks like metal? The ground coming from the breaker was just loose in the box, probably touching the box so maybe that outlet was grounded. So what was really bad? He had cut the ground wire off at the sheathing of the cable that came out of the box and fed downstream outlets


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## Baymule

That is exactly why we hired an electrician to run power to our barn and portable building. We have work to do before we can wire the barn/building up, but no way is somebody who has no idea going to touch it.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure ya know the old sayin....'Even a Blind squirrel finds a Nut'....sounds as if he just Lucked out on a few...glad ya found it before it became a Problem for ya....Fire isn't something ya want to deal with except in a fireplace or stove.


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## Bruce

I would say so, even a monkey could have gotten it right more often just by chance!

When half the house was rebuilt 3 years ago, the electrician ran a 20A 110V straight to the little barn (which had been fed by a 14-2 wire from the panel in the workshop 100' away) and a 70A 220V to the panel in the workshop.

Change the snow amount, it blows a lot here so I just guesstimated. Wife said she was dragging a bit on the way in, that means 5-6" Guess I'll have to blow tomorrow.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure am Glad that leaves are all that's blown here...well except 'Smoke'...


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## Bruce

Mr UPS never showed yesterday, status this morning was "rescheduled due to weather". Hasn't shown up yet today either but it is only 6 PM. Seems to me that if they can't finish their route for whatever reason, they should run it backward the next day so things that were expected arrive as close as possible to the original "target time".

Got not much done today other than grocery, winter boot and PVC pipe/fitting shopping. 

The only progress on the fence project was buying the PVC to run hotwire and ground wire under the gates. I TRIED to pull the outermost ground rod. This is what they look like. As you can see, not much separation.




Using the fence puller with a chain under the clamp, clamp just popped off.
Chain around the rod, slid off (OK I was not really expecting that to work).
Wrapped brace wire around the post ("self locking" style). Slipped off.
Drilled a hole in the top of the rod and ran brace wire through it. Couldn't get it to move with the fence puller.
Hauled the Gorilla ladder, post pounder and come-along out.
Set up the ladder as a "quad pod" frame
Put the pounder over the 2nd to highest rung pair.
Chain with 800 pound carabiner around the pounder, come-along attached to that
made a loop in the brace wire and connected the come-along.
STRAIGHT UP pull.
Slowly and steadily I pulled one foot of the ladder into the ground.
Released the come-along, put a big flat rock under the ladder leg.
Reset the come-along
Slowly and steadily I pulled until the brace wire snapped, rod never lifted a bit.

I don't know what the breaking strength of brace wire is but it is less that whatever is gripping that rod. Likely it is jammed into a lot of rocks that are acting like a "Chinese finger trap".

So now I know how to NOT pull a ground rod for reuse. I still have no idea HOW to do it successfully. Guess I'll be heading to TSC for ground rods in the morning. I had hoped to avoid that expense. I need new clamps as well. They are all loose and when I tried to tighten one, it fell apart. I was also going to reuse the ground wire. They had their charger about midway through the barn. As the wire goes, it is about 60' to the north end of the barn, over then down to the first rod. Plenty for me since I am putting my charger on that outside wall just above the existing ground rods. BUT the wire just snapped off when I moved the clamp a little. Maybe not the best idea to reuse it.


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## Bruce

UPS guy showed up at 6:20  Now I need to think about what parts I may have forgotten to think about and see if I can pick those up at TSC tomorrow.


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## CntryBoy777

Maybe it neede a little of WD-40 on it.....I think your Right about not using the wire that Snapped...,


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## Baymule

I drove some T-posts in for a temporary garden fence the first year. That fall, we were going to take it down and put up a permanent fence. The ground was dry and hard. Using the TRACTOR it took me over one HOUR to pull up ONE post! Plus I bent it.  I had to water the posts, wait a bit, tug a bit, water again, tug a bit..... Then to drive posts for the new fence, we had to water the posts, slam the T-post driver, water and soak, water and soak.....it took days to get them driven in and we live on SAND!!

Enter my new toy!! A T-post puller!!! After the first post I pulled, I could have hugged and kissed my bright shiny red T-post puller! why didn't I get one of these to start with??????

So I'm with ya' on pulling some stubborn piece of metal that does NOT want to come out of the ground.


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## greybeard

Next time, tie the chain on the rod just as you would the OB chain when using a calf puller but add an extra half hitch at the top. It won't slip.


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## Baymule

greybeard said:


> Next time, tie the chain on the rod just as you would the OB chain when using a calf puller but add an extra half hitch at the top. It won't slip.



Says the voice of experience......


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## Bruce

There isn't a lot of rod showing and it doesn't seem to have leg joints like a calf  I think I'd need a smaller link chain (not the the one I was using was all that big) for it to have any hope of catching the smooth surface.

DD 1 and I installed insulators on the fence today. We have about 35 to go at the 8" height then all the T-Post insulators will be on. I got all the insulators on the north line, the one that will have 6 wires. 2 hot, high and low, and 1 ground 6" below the top hot will continue around the corner and head to the gate in the west fence line. The other 3 are hot and just on the north fence line. I ran wire for those three. Not tight yet, I need to add insulators on the brace posts but figured it would be easier to know where I did and didn't need to do that if the wire was there.

Then dark happened :wink Will get back on it tomorrow.


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## CntryBoy777

Your body must feel like it is on Vacation...not having to deal with Rocks for a change...


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## Bruce

In a way! Will be fun when I try to drive the rods I bought today. TSC had only one 6' rod so I had to buy two 8' rods as well.


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## CntryBoy777

Take a hacksaw and cut 2' off the top...ya will have 3 6' rods....


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## Bruce

Yep. Considering it. Then I'll have to figure out what two 2' galvanized rods can be used for. Gotta be good for lots of things.


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## CntryBoy777

Btw....how big a pc of black walnut ya want?....this tree is coming down probably in about a month or so....
   roughly about 10-12" in diameter at base...and 20' tall.


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## Bruce

Will it fit in a standard mailer?? 

You could make some awesome "natural shape" cutting boards or serving "platters" if you had some Pentacryl. Expensive stuff though. You have to get a slice in the Pentacryl pretty much as soon as it is cut if you don't want it to crack.


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## CntryBoy777

Never heard of the stuff....and figured shipping UPS during cold temps would keep it long enough to get there in 3days...but, maybe it is my 'Ignorance' that thinks that way.........thought ya might like about 2' of it....


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## Bruce

DD1 & I made decent progress on the fence today. I have to figure out how to get an insulator for the low hot wire on a couple of outside corners that are cattle panels. No post at the corner to connect anything to. But at this point there will likely be snow often enough that it will ground out anyway and I'll probably have to leave the knife switch open so not a big rush to make sure it is just right.

We ran all the wire except the piece of low hot from the strike post side of the gate in the east line around the corner (one of the problem corners!) to the little barn. I still have to rip out the chicken wire covered old fence so we can't get to it easily and neither can the animals. None of the wire is tight yet but tight enough on the north line (5 hots, 1 ground) that I didn't replace the piece of fencing from the strike post in the west line to the SW corner post in the old fence when we had to get through it to get wire to the new post. They figured that out while we were working on the section south of that gate and went down for a look. Thus, other than the narrow section between the new and old North fences (and there isn't anything of interest other than SQUISHY ground with some standing water), they have been everywhere in the new 1 acre area.

Tomorrow I need to run underground gate bypass wire in PVC pipe and make the vertical parts with "round-over" tops (to keep water out), install those, tighten the wires, connect the bypass wires to the "in-line" wires and connect to the charger. I've decided to run overhead from the north end of the barn where the charger will be to the hinge side post on the gate to start the run. There is NO WAY I'll be able to bury pipe or anything else to bypass that gate. I have to run over the alpacas' "private door" to get to the short bit of fence from there to the NE corner then west to the strike post so I'm going to do that as a separate "spur" rather than starting there and dealing with getting the wire past the gate, not with all the burried rock. This is the section I'm talking about, older picture as you can see - no fence!


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Never heard of the stuff....and figured shipping UPS during cold temps would keep it long enough to get there in 3 days...but, maybe it is my 'Ignorance' that thinks that way.........thought ya might like about 2' of it....


I would love 2' of it! Have to find out how much that would cost. And this time of year UPS is so backlogged it won't likely be just 3 days. It will check some on the ends but won't crack right off unless you start slicing it up. In fact, the "rule of thumb" (before kiln drying) was 1 year per inch of diameter. A relative of mine designed the "Old Ship Church" in Hingham, MA but his sons had to build it because he died before the wood was dry.  This was in the later 1600's. He also designed and built the first Meeting House in Boston some years before.


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## CntryBoy777

Guess wood is in your 'Blood' then.......that's really Interesting and something to be proud of for Sure....never 'Dug' into my family 'History'....too scared what I might find....


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## Bruce

In case anyone was wondering why I was knocking myself out building this fence, pretending to be like REAL farmers who go out in nasty weather to work on stuff:

The chickens can be kept in with minimal fencing if high enough.
The alpacas see the weasley 3'-4' fence and say "it's the Great Wall of China!" and don't even think about crossing it even though they could jump it pretty easily
But a Great Pyrenees might see that same fence from the outside and not even think they had crossed a barrier.



Here we have Teddy, Laddie, Merlin and DD1. Until today Merlin belonged to @purplequeenvt who found herself needing to reduce her quantity of GPs. I am both very sad for that and grateful to her and @Southern by choice for the opportunity to give Merlin a new home not all that far from where he was born 16 months ago and where he was raised as a working sheep guardian and in the presence of chickens. Both of those things were important to me because I really don't want to sacrifice some quantity of my chickens teaching a LGD puppy to leave them alone. At this point I felt I would be better off with a "gently used  " dog than a pup.

His first day here was both eventful and uneventful. Yes, he drooled a bit on the way home (a sign of anxiety with him according to PQV). We walked him from the car

to the gate (as best one could describe the mess that is between the big barn and a fence projecting from the little barn). Laddie was more brave (as I've found to usually be the case) and came to the gate. He and Merlin sniffed each other a bit then Laddie went back to Teddy.

Next, time to meet the chickens. Given they don't like snow, they were in the barn alley (picture from late October). The alpacas' area is behind the gate, the chickens have the rest. Their coop is on the right about midway down the alley.


They came running, hoping for treats. Saw Merlin and freaked, running and flapping to the gate. Merlin did not react to the commotion AT ALL. Then the alpacas came in from the other side, possibly also hoping for a treat. Scared the bejeezus out of the chickens and most of them ran back toward us. Some made it into the coop, some past us. I think one actually hit Merlin on her way by. He did not react AT ALL. I wasn't sure if he could get in the auto chicken door. He fixed that by sticking his head and shoulders in. I closed it and opened the smaller glass door, figured he couldn't get in that one.

I gave him 2 cups of food, then a third and fourth. Not surprising given he has been eating about 7 cups a day (*). Then we went for a walk (that means we went where he wanted, I just held the leash), first stop was the pond. Yummy pond water, he drank a fair bit though he pretty much skipped the water in his bowl in the barn.

Next stop, the alpaca latrine. He gave it a very thorough investigation. Then we followed the alpacas' trail into the north end of the barn, his nose to the ground the whole way. Then around the pond and out into the southern sections of the newly fenced area. The alpacas were under the solar arrays and gave him a wary look but he didn't try to take us too close to them.

I released him and came in for lunch. After lunch the alpacas were still by the array and I found Merlin in their area of the barn. He came out the north end where I had gone to work on more fence stuff, then came with me to the gate in the west line where I needed to feed the top hotwire gate bypass. He hung out a bit then went to lay down.

He is EXTREMELY respectful of the alpacas' "personal space". He would lay down 20' or 30' from them, when they moved some distance so did he. The only time he frightened the boys was when they headed back toward the barn and he followed with a bit more speed since they were some distance ahead. They (especially Teddy) got nervous and started moving faster so he did as well to keep the gap. Made them more nervous, they sped up a bit, so did he. They weren't running, just walking fast. Then for whatever reason they slowed and so did he.

I went to do something in the workshop (north end of the barn but up in the original part where the alpacas and Merlin can't get to). After a bit I heard a lot of chicken ruckus so I went down. Turns out Merlin can fit through the small chicken door too. He was inside. Mind you he wasn't harassing the girls up on their roost, just sniffing around, learning about his new home. So I need to do something so the girls can come out (if they dare) but he can't get in. Of course I screamed at him for being in there. OK, actually I just opened the people door, told (requested?) him to come out and gave him another 2 cups of food and some scratches.  

Back to the gate, he and the alpacas came out as well. Wife came home from work and found us. Merlin got more loving. Around 3:30 I went to lock the chickens in. They were all still in the coop "hiding" up on the roosts so I put their scratch on the coop floor instead of out in the run. Merlin was at the gate on the alpacas' side. The boys came in for their pellets and that is such a big draw that they were willing to stand right behind Merlin. The feed bins are on the gate. I put their pellets in, they were not quite sure how to get past Merlin but Laddie made a move and got to a feeder. Merlin figured this was a great time to get better acquainted with his new charges and started sniffing Laddies' butt. He wasn't so sure about that but PELLETS!!! By the time I came back out of the "feed room" Laddie and Teddy were both eating. I worked outside more until it was too dark to see (ie 4:45), said goodnight to all three boys.

Merlin and the neighbor's (about 500' away) dog that barks WAY too much had a "discussion" around 6 and Merlin barked a bit maybe 1/2 hour later. Other than that he has been quiet.

DD1 sent a picture of Merlin out with the alpacas to DD2 (off at college in Wisconsin, coming home for a month Monday night). The response back was "We have a dog???". I hadn't been talking about the plan to get Merlin a lot (which is why it hasn't been here until now) because sometimes the best laid plans .... 

* Wife had asked how much is costs to feed a dog this size. The answer for us, based on the 7 cups a day of Wholesomes Sport Mix from TSC (what he has been eating) is "about $1 a day less than the canned food we feed the 3 house cats. This doesn't include the cost of their dry food or treats.


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## NH homesteader

Congrats! 

Now I get why you were fencing in the snow!


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like a really Good acquisition for ya and the Boys....he looks like a really good dog....and a good decision all around.....sure Hope things continue to work out, for Sure!!


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## Southern by choice

Sounds great!
I wouldn't worry at all about him getting in with the chickens. The chickens will get accustomed to him and go on about the life of chickens. Also it is good he has access so if there is a predator that does get in he can take care of it. Possum, coon, mink can get in small spaces... Our Eliza sleeps in the coop with the chickens and the door is always open to the outside field.

He should fully adjust at 7-10 days.


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## babsbag

My GP tried to get into the coop through the pop door. He got his shoulders in and that was it. He finally backed out but it was funny watching him.


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## Baymule

What a handsome boy!  I am happy for all involved, and you got a fantastic dog!


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## Latestarter

Wow, what an exceptional turn of events! Congrats on getting a proven LGD from a proven BYH member! A win win win for all involved! Sounds like he's going to be a great addition to your farm! I give you a month and you'll wonder how you ever lived without him... 6 months and you'll be considering getting another  This definitely explains why the over achievement on fencing  Should have realized there had to be SOME danged good reason for you busting hump in all weather to get that done.   Feeding him is going to cost $1/day LESS than the cats? Those cats need a job catching their own food out in the barn! Time for them to earn their keep!

Anyway, really glad for you and your family & for Merlin! Happy and sad for @purplequeenvt I can't imagine how difficult a decision it must have been for her to let Merlin go. At least he's close by to where he grew up. And I'm sure she wouldn't have let him go if it wasn't necessary.


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## Mike CHS

I'm another that is happy for you and for Merlin.  All that hard work appears to be a goal after all.


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## TAH




----------



## Bruce

Two of the cats take care of any mice that make it into the house. Then they barf it up somewhere. We aren't ALL that interested in them mousing in the barn (if they ever got out of the house other than to go to the vet).

My wife voiced some concern about not being able to sleep when he was barking last evening. I heard him 3 times last night, she didn't know he had barked even once after she went to bed.

I looked out the kitchen window while making breakfast, Merlin was trying to get the alpacas to play with him. They declined. Maybe if I tied a bag of alpaca pellets around his neck?? 

I don't know how much Merlin ate today. He decided to get his own breakfast before I went out. He found his 20 gallon food can, knocked it over and ate what he wanted. It doesn't have a bail to hold the lid down. I filled his dish from the pile though there were still at least 3 cups on the floor. Fortunately most of it stayed in the can. I moved the can to a room that has a half glass door, minus the glass. I suppose he could jump in through the window opening but I doubt he will bother.

I had taken the rotting and broken top boards off the old fence a few years ago. They were pulling down the chicken wire they were supposed to be holding up. This is what the NW end looked like facing south


And no, those are NOT floating braces, they are the top boards NOT holding up the chicken wire!! Q&D fix because my wife and I had to drive to Wisconsin to get DD2 from college. I ran and tensioned wire through the top of the chicken wire that was still in fairly good shape to hold it up and pieced in places that had really bad wire. I dropped the old boards along the inside of the fence line (screws and all, Q&D remember?) figuring any digging predator would be slowed a little. When the alpacas came I tossed them in piles on the outside of the fence so they wouldn't accidentally step on anything that could hurt them. Thus no longer a problem. Only now I have this new fence outside the old fence and those boards are again a threat to the boys (all three! ) They have never been painted so I carried them to the new fence closest to the "burn ring" behind the house and carefully tossed them over the new hotwire. Don't know when I'll have the bonfire. I should probably burn what is already in there, don't really need a huge fire! We can burn here any time there is snow on the ground. I think I'll call the fire dept so they don't get concerned about the plume of smoke I'm sure all the stuff in there and the boards will generate.

I took some insulators off the old fence and put them on the braces and posts on the north line. It has 6 wires, many of which were touching the posts. Granted they are wood so not very good conductors but still, best to have the wires clear.

Then I removed the broken and rusty chicken wire from the east end of the old fence to around the NW corner (lower right in this picture). Also removed from the lower right of the picture all the way to the top: 3 (thought there was only 1!!) strands of hotwire tangled in the dry weeds






You can see that a couple of the old posts are really close to the new fence. Now that it is hot I didn't want any animals to come to that really narrow area (especially from the top so there is still wire fence from the old corner post to the gate hinge side post)and not be able to turn around and retreat without getting zapped. I'm sure it won't be until next spring but I will remove that fence line. But there is too much rusty chicken wire stapled (long staple gun type) stapled to the posts and the ground level boards that go post to post to deal with at the moment.

Before @purplequeenvt PMed to say she was willing to sell Merlin to me I had been working on raising and stabilizing the old deck from the house so the alpacas would have a (cheesy) "weather shelter". Fencing took over that priority. I worked some more on the barn side and was able to take out the "stuff" the excavator screwed in underneath so he could carry it from the house and deposit it where you see it. Still needs some tarp or whatever to make it a weather shelter. I don't even know if the alpacas will go in. Merlin didn't show any interest when I sat in it and called him.

Note to @purplequeenvt: At this point "come" isn't even a suggestion to him. 

Not sure I needed to buy the heated water dish. He seems happy enough to drink from the alpacas' bucket, no bending over  I closed the south door to the barn (the chickens' end) and opened their smaller door halfway, held from opening farther, so in case Merlin came over the alpacas' gate, he wouldn't get into the coop. It took most of the day before any of them came out but I opened the people door around 3 and tossed their scratch. Most of them came out for that.


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## Southern by choice

Bruce said:


> My wife voiced some concern about not being able to sleep when he was barking last evening. I heard him 3 times last night, she didn't know he had barked even once after she went to bed.



She'll get use to it.
They bark, that is what they are suppose to do.
Eventually she will come around to being thankful for it and once she learns the different kinds of barks she will have a gratitude for it.

It is funny how you learn to sleep through it but once a certain pitch is made you will fly outta bed grabbing the shotgun! 

I hope she falls in love with him.

I have seen a few farms over the years where the one spouse just doesn't care for dogs and ends up jealous of the relationship the other has with the livestock/dog... always ends badly.


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## Baymule

Yes they bark. I can sleep blissfully through all the Boof-Boofs, but there is THAT bark that always gets you up to investigate. Just now Trip was booming his loud BOOF! BOOF! and DH went out to investigate. He came in laughing, it is real windy and Trip was barking at a wind chime!


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## Latestarter

Oh gosh... just recently Mel has decided that my cell phone ring is dangerous... Any time it rings or I get on it to make a call he goes bonkers. So now I'm trying to get to get past that. There are definitely different barks and different intensities. When you hear the real thing, you'll no doubt recognize it pretty quick.


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## Bruce

She likes him, gave him lots of scratches this weekend. Though when he was barking earlier she said "YOUR dog is barking again". I told her that is what they do if they perceive a threat. I assume he is still figuring out what is important and what isn't. 

I'm not sure if he has made any different barks yet. All sound the same to me. He's been going off a lot this evening (8:45 now). I went out about 15 minutes ago, he was down near the south fence but came when he saw me approaching the gate in the east line. He didn't want to get close to that gate maybe because he followed me out yesterday. I thought my wife coming behind me, I guess he got between us. He was checking out the area next to the little barn on his way uphill and I grabbed his collar (when I found it, lots of hair on that neck!) and took him to the gate between the barns. That is the one we use most. So I headed there and he took off to meet me. He is faster. I went in and gave him lots of scratches. Eventually he went back in the area behind the barns and hung around the alpacas' path. It wasn't until then that I noticed the alpacas were out under one of the solar arrays, no snow under them. While I was watching him the neighbor's dog barked, he didn't respond. And a couple of dogs down the road (possibly including the GP from the house where the alpacas used to live based on the deep voice) but he didn't respond to that either so I have no idea what he was barking about but it wasn't "here I am at the gate, come pet me".  

Now it is 9:30 , she is getting ready for bed and annoyed he is constantly barking. But every time I go to the door to listen, he isn't.


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## NH homesteader

Bahaha sorry that is hilarious. 

I had to change the text alert noise on my phone because my husband always texts me when he's on our road...  So I know he's coming  and the dogs don't wake the child up.  So now they think the text noise means someone is about to pull in the driveway. So the spaz out and bark anyway.  Counterproductive. 

Interesting to follow your new LGD adventures..  Maybe if I keep reading I'll feel more prepared when I get mine...  Someday


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## Latestarter

He could be barking at a deer, or a rabbit, or some other nightly denizen... raccoon, skunk, porcupine, rat, mice, etc. Sometimes there's no telling. They can see, hear and smell better than we can.

ETA... Your wife might be hyper sensitive right now since he just arrived, and may be "hearing things"...


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## Baymule

Trip always lays in the middle of the driveway between the house and the road where he can better survey his kingdom. Recently he changed his position to the end of the house, close to the gas pipeline. I couldn't figure out why until my son said, that's where the threat is coming from. Bingo! The guy that owns the 8 acres next to us planted an oat patch and the deer are in it every night. Deer drive the dogs nuts.

Our other GP, Paris always barked at EVERYTHING. If an acorn fell, she went off. I'd open the door and tell her HUSH! Then I started tapping the glass window before I opened the door to fuss at her. It finally got to where I could tap the window and she'd shut up. And as time passed, she stopped barking so much. She still barks, but there is SOMETHING out there. Just because I can't see or smell it doesn't mean that it isn't there. Just recently she killed a large possum.

Your dog is new, everything is new to him. When he is barking, go outside and talk to him. Tell him he is a good dog, pet him and go back in. In time, he will settle down and know what is a threat and what is not.


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## Bruce

He started off again about half an hour ago. In my pajamas (thanks to the in-laws for the insulated Carhartt overalls they gave me 3 years ago!), I put on my boots, no socks, figured same old thing, it will be a couple of minutes. I went down to the gate in the east line. He was at the barn side edge of the pond looking west toward the woods. That bark really echos off the woods and back to the house. He didn't come to me. Teddy and Laddie were looking the same direction (best I could tell, total overcast, supposed to snow 3.5 inches by tomorrow night). Teddy was alerting.

CLEARLY something was out there, they weren't all worried about a firefly or something. I went through the gate and to Merlin at the edge of the pond. Still barking. I scratched his ears and talked to him, still barking. And some low growls as well. I went back through the opening in the old fence and started toward the area between the old and new fences. I finally saw something about halfway between the woods and the new fence. It headed toward the woods. Didn't run like a deer and I think too big for a fox. Dog or coyote?

He was still at the pond barking. I went out through the gate in the west fence and toward the woods (I guess I am the "patroller" half of the team  ). I came across some footprints in the snow but not light enough to see them clearly. Merlin stopped barking and I went back to the gate. Merlin was there waiting for me. Gave him lots of praise and scratches and headed back through the east fence gate. Got about halfway up the side of the little barn and he set off again. So back I went out to the west fence gate and walked around more. Found several sets of tracks, some clearly a smaller animal based on the size of the print and spacing (definitely not rabbit), some larger. I went back to the woods and after a bit he stopped barking.  Same scenario on the way back to the gate and this time I made it to the house to report.

So he is a watcher. He stayed where he had some elevation and if necessary could make it to the alpacas in no time even though they were about 100' away as he would have to travel to get around the old fence. Unless he decided to go over it. I'll have to take down the rest of the jury rigged "fence topper" DD1 and I put up to keep the chickens in the barnyard while we were going in September. Wouldn't want him to hit that and get hurt. He didn't leave his post until he decided the threat wasn't there, then came to meet me near the west fence gate.

Of course if the threat did make it to the fence when Merlin was in the barn and tried to go over, it wouldn't try again The fence works. I got zapped earlier today when I was moving a piece of old poly wire that went from wood post to wood post across the gate outside the north end of the barn. Mind you this was NOT connected to anything, it was just a visual deterrent I put on a couple of months ago so the chickens wouldn't try to go over the 4' high pipe gate. I still have NO idea what I touched but I turned the fence off after that to complete the job. The wires I was anywhere near were the leadout wires for the top hot and the ground below it.

Now I just have to explain all this to the wife in the morning.

ETA - what is the bestest most powerful handheld light I can get that can shine at least enough light to get reflection off an animal's eyes minimally 100', 200' would be better. Or do they not exist. I would love to know where the critter was in the woods when Merlin was barking both times during this incident.


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## NH homesteader

So much  excitement! 

Hey Bruce...  I have a chicken question for you.  I don't go on BYC so forgive my forum crossing 

What do you use for water in winter? We had a heated waterer but it broke (and I didn't love it anyway)  ..  So we are currently using rubber dishes but with the snow on the ground they're not interested in going outside.  I love nipper waterers but am not sure how one could keep them from freezing.


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## Bruce

No problem! I built a recirculating waterer. Coop is a converted stall in the barn so no exposure to the elements.

Water is in a 5 gallon Igloo drink cooler. It is on the outside of the coop, enclosed in a makeshift plywood box with some rigid insulation on the sides and door. 
Nipple pipe is built into the bottom of the nest box on the other side of that wall. (*)
Water is pumped (freezing weather and below only!) through clear tubing by a VERY small reptile waterfall pump to the pipe and returns
Nipples are saddle and ONLY the pin sticks out below the plywood, rigid insulation around the pipe and most of the yellow part of the nipples and over the top, under the floor of the nest box.
Down to about 15F the stock tank heater works and since it has a thermostat only heats the water to not much more than "not freezing"
Below that the submersible aquarium heater is plugged in, works to about -20F. 
There is a fair distance between the pipe and the nipple pin in saddle nipples, I think a regular nipple would work to a lower temp with the stock tank heater since there would be less distance between the circulating water and the pin.

I have read on BYC that horizontal nipples are less apt to freeze at a given temperature than vertical.

* I would build it as a separate unit were I to do it again. the night before Thanksgiving 3 years ago 3 of the 5 nipple failed, no idea why. Had to take apart the nest box to replace them. That had to wait until spring, too cold to do that in winter in Vermont!


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## NH homesteader

Cool thanks! My husband has a plan.  I don't  totally get it but he knows what he's talking about! Lol I am not technically/mechanically minded


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## purplequeenvt

I'm so happy he seems to be taking his job seriously! He's definitely going to be barking more right now as he's learning the all the new sights, sounds, and smells. As he gets more comfortable, the barking should go down. My dogs are, at least at home, not excessive barkers. They seem to be pretty smart about what's a threat and what's not.

If he's barking a lot, there's probably something out there that he's not happy about (even if it's just a bunny). 

He takes after his mom in the obedience department. "Come" is always optional to her. His dad and most of his brothers are very obedient. Most of the time. He might get better about coming when called now that he's not competing with his brothers.


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## Bruce

Today's "excitement":
Went down for "animal chores". Merlin wasn't between the barns but by the time I got the door open he was there to follow me in. I put food in his dish - nothing doing, scrub my ears!! So I did.
Tossed BOSS on the floor of the coop. I left the smaller chicken door open halfway.
Scrubbed Merlin's ears some more.
Gave the alpacas their pellets.
Scrubbed Merlin's ears some more.

Went to the big grocery store. Got back in time to get DD1 for a day of errands. First stop, 25 miles away, the seamstress for her Theatre On Ice stuff, have lunch at the Nepalese restaurant a couple of doors down. Then to her Doctor's appointment, a stop at the health food store and finally a stop at my favorite family run market on the way home.

Only NOT! Halfway to stop #1 the "Problem!" triangle popped up and a thermometer. We were near the interstate exit I was going to take anyway. Got off, stopped at the gas station on the corner. Popped the hood, coolant reservoir empty. Bought some and filled the reservoir. Off we go. Not 3 miles later, Problem! Stop in the parking lot of a bar, check under the hood, fill the reservoir. Back the car up to see if there were any leaks, nope.

BTW, the manual says if there isn't steam coming out of the engine, pop the hood and see if the fan is running. It isn't so I am supposed to call Toyota. No time for that!! Off we go. Not a mile farther, same thing. Only this time reservoir still full. Off we go (the fact that the Prius runs on electric at times is most helpful "nursing" the car along) and another mile or so, same thing. Pull into a small used car lot to check the reservoir, still full. BTW, no heat coming out of the vents. Saleslady comes out, I explain my issue, she tells me they have a service center 2 doors down. OK! I pull in, talk to the guy. No lifts available then and the loaner car is already scheduled to go out.

Off we go. By this time Plan A is out the window. Nursed the car to the doctor's office about 10 miles away. Left DD1 there at 11:30 for her 1:30 appointment. Nursed the car to the Toyota dealer (not my preferred one!) 10 miles away. Of course with no appointment they aren't able to look at it right then. So they have the car which will cost I don't know how much to fix but their hourly rate is now up to about $97/hr 
OK so I have to rent a car for I don't know how long. He says they have a Corolla. $33/day. OK, what choice do I have?? Called the optometrist in MA and cancelled my appointment for tomorrow.

Only the people at the other counter just rented it. She said she would give me a truck for the same price since they didn't have the Corolla.
(This is where you throw me out of the herd)  Um, I REALLY don't want a truck.
Well we can give you a Highlander for that price.
Nothing smaller??
Nope. So now I'm driving a vehicle way bigger than I like. Stopped at the bagel place to pick up lunch (now 12:30) and went back to the medical center. Found DD1 in the waiting room about 1 PM. They had already done her vitals. She said maybe the Dr. will be early too. I told her Doctors are NEVER early, only on time if you are lucky. In comes the Doctor!  Seems they had 14 cancellations due to the snow this morning. Whoo hoo!

Appointment finished, went to the Health Food store, went to the family market, came home. Told Merlin we would be out in a few minutes after putting the groceries away.

We went down through the gate between the barns and scrubbed Merlin's ears a lot. OK, now 3:45, kinda dark in the barn, turned the lights on. Got scratch for the girls and threw it in the coop. Start headcount. 9 inside, one on the wall of the feedroom against the wire of the coop. Um, 10 chickens is too few by 2. DD1 snagged the White Rock from the feed room (squawking like she was being killed, they are not handled). Figured out we were missing a Black Australorp and a Faverolles. Merlin would not tell me where they were. He did however squeeze into the coop through the half open little door while the WR was being put on the roost. I was told he wouldn't go through a pipe gate. May be true but it isn't because he couldn't if he wanted to!! Gave the alpacas their pellets

Missing girls NOT in the barn. No prints outside the alpacas' end and I hadn't seen any between the barns, but then were weren't careful not to step on any "evidence" when we went down. Looked through the barn again, not there.

DD1 finally found the BA behind some old plywood leaning against the little barn. It is one of the places they hang out in the summer. I had looked there but didn't get down on hands and knees and stuff my face in 3' like she did. We moved some of the plywood and she was able to snag the hen. Stuck her in the coop and went looking some more for the Faverolles. She found the "fluffy butt" with her head in a hole right behind the barn. I guess Ostriches have something because she had successfully hidden from the big hairy animal.

All accounted for, time for Merlin's apparent favorite activity, ear scrubbing. Went back to the house and shoveled part of the driveway and down to the gate. Wife came home as I was finishing. Not seeing my Prius she asked if DD1 had already left for her TOI practice (not sure what she was thinking about the unknown vehicle). Nope. I told her "I figure since we got this huge dog, we needed a bigger vehicle and traded the Prius .... either that or the car is in the shop". She and I then went down and ... scrubbed Merlin's ears some more.


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## Baymule

It sounds like Merlin is getting the best part of this day! I hate car problems. $orry that you are having to deal with thi$. Hopefully it won't cost a lot to get it fixed. DH's truck is a 2004, we pay for repairs and are happy that we aren't paying a monthly note. Repairs are way cheaper!


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## CntryBoy777

Sorry ya had such a 'Start and Stop' day today....vehicle problems are always a PITA...and never seem to happen at a 'Good' time either....sure am Glad ya found all your Chickens and they were Safe.........since most animals are 'Routine Oriented' it sounds like Merlin is getting it going on the 'Ear Rubs'.........hope it is just a sensor on your Prius and ya don't have to feel 'Violated' to get it back..


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## Bruce

I already feel "violated" for the hour minimum they are charging to look at it! Sure wish it had happened locally and I could have taken it to the local mechanic up on the main road. He doesn't have the knowledge to mess with any of the hybrid parts but this isn't anything that wouldn't happen to any vehicle. Maybe the water pump, thermostat, etc. His 2 lift, single man repair shop is attached to the garage on his house. He doesn't have to charge nearly as much per hour to cover all the overhead that a dealership does. A wheel bearing replacement at his shop is about 25% less than at the dealer.


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## Bruce

Kinda beat today. DD2 came in on schedule at midnight. She said they were going to be delayed leaving JFK because the flight attendants were coming in on a delayed flight. But another crew of attendants said they would make the run. Not sure how that all works out with their schedule for the next day, that plane wasn't leaving Burlington until sometime this morning. Got to bed about 1:30. 

Wife up at 4:30 to Merlin barking. She's not happy, needs her sleep, gets up at 5:15. So I stuck myself into the Carhartts and went to chat with Merlin. Clearly not a "Danger, Danger!" thing, he met me at the gate between the barns on the west side. Stayed with him in the barn for an hour. Had no idea how long it actually was, Santa is bringing me a new watch. After some time I made a bed with HIS bed (not yet actually laid out since is don't know where he would want it or if he would even use it) on top of 3 bales of pine shavings. I "locked" him in the barn, meaning latched the west doors. Figure the 3' gate to the alpacas' side wouldn't be a challenge but maybe he would stay inside and quiet for a time. 

Came in at ~5:30, got in bed. Wife left about 6:30 so I figured I better feed the cats. Fed them and the woodstove and went back to bed. BTW, Merlin was out barking so as expected the 3' gate wasn't a problem for him. Went back to bed. Got up about 8 feeling like I was still in need of a lot more sleep (wonder why??) and laid on the couch under a blanket.

Service guy from Toyota called at 9 AM, car is ready and do I want them to deal with 4 or 5 other items. He detailed them and I said no (*). DD2 wanted bacon because Tuesday is bacon day at the commons. Claims she can't use the propane stove due to the odor even with the fan on so it is on me. DD1 had an appointment with the Bowenwork lady at 12:30. Since I had no desire to pay for 2 days on the Highlander, I had to squeeze breakfast and car pickup in there. 

Figured I would make a sausage/egg/muffin sandwich (got our Wolferman's order a few days ago) and use one of the eggs I froze about a month ago to see how they were faring. Haven't frozen eggs before. I probably should have gotten it out of the fridge and let it thaw but no time so it thawed and cooked at the same time. Turned out pretty well actually. 

Made it to the Toyota dealer, could have been worse. The belt was gone. Only 1 belt in a Prius and all it does is run the water pump. Belt $20.39, coolant $22.85, some "subassembly" $19.08. Labor?  $145. And tax of course, bringing it to ~$244.

I took a sleeping bag and blanket down to the barn this afternoon in case I have to "baby sit" again. Not very warm out there this time of year. If the overnight barking at non essential "threats" remains a problem (until hopefully she learns to tune him out), maybe I need to get a cot. Bigger problem, no bathrooms here other than in the house. 

* Especially said no to the replacement of the cabin air filter. That dealership charges 20 minutes of time to put in a new one, it takes 3 minutes to do if you are slow. The dealership closer to the house doesn't charge to install it. They figure it is already out so they could SEE if it needs to be replaced and they have to put it back in whether they change it or not.


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## Baymule

Last night Trip let out a LOUD BOOF BOOF BOOF and went running down the driveway.  I stepped out and it sounded like the coyotes were having a concert. DH got his pistol and walked to the end of the driveway, yelled loudly and shot into the ground. Between the dogs barking, DH yelling and gunshots, the coyotes figured this was a unhospitable place.  

Today Paris was barking, a high pitched MIRF! MIRF means she _thinks _there might be danger, but she can't prove it. She kept it up, so finally I tapped on the window. She tucked her tail like a board landed across her butt.  It took a lot of going outside and telling her HUSH, JUST HUSH to get her to the window tapping point. And no, I have never hit her butt with a board, it was just funny.

If there seems to be no real danger, pet Merlin and tell him good boy, then tell him to hush. That's what I did with Paris and now it's starting to work on Trip.


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## Bruce

GPs have a high pitched bark? Or is that just girlie girl GP's 


There was only the one time (that I know of) that he was on a likely serious threat (were it to get over the new fence). My voice was ignored that time. Such appropriate GP behavior - "Yeah I hear you but I'm kinda busy right now". 

If I open the door and say (not in a loud voice or yell) "Merlin" he will stop and come to the east gate where he can see the back of the house if he isn't truly busy protecting. But if he's going to start up again in a few minutes, my wife won't get back to sleep. This morning, after I came back in and went to bed, I heard her tap on the window frame when he was barking. I figured that was as useful as sending him an email  But later when I was in the bathroom and he was barking, I tapped on the window and he looked at me. Good hearing. It would be nice if that would work, better than opening the window in these temps.


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## CntryBoy777

Bruce said:


> Bigger problem, no bathrooms here other than in the house.


You afraid to make 'Yellow Snow' or sharing the Boys area?glad your car didn't 'Violate' ya....


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## Latestarter

Glad the repair wasn't anything serious... for me it seems any time there's a repair shop trip for anything it starts @ 4 figures minimum... Love that "I hear ya but I'm kinda busy" analogy... very apt. I've noticed with Mel that there's a serious bark - he's alerted on something and it's real, and then there's a warning bark - there MIGHT be something there and he just wants whatever it might be, to know that HE knows it might be there. Then there's the startled bark when something got him riled up but he doesn't really know what it is... like basically every time my cell phone rings. He does NOT like my cell phone for some reason.

I'm quite sure he's really going to enjoy your company at night.


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## Bruce

No @CntryBoy777, not worried about yellow snow, it is the other!

Merlin did not "ask" me to join him last night  I went to bed about 11. He was in front of the east gate between the barns about 11:30. That gate is about 40' from our bedroom on the first floor at the north end. Prior "alerts" have been from the south end of the newly fenced area (*) or from the barnyard by the pond facing our west field and the woods beyond. I opened the window and said "Merlin". He went quiet and we didn't hear from him again last night. 

My guess is the cat that lives across the street came over. Historically he has come over pretty much every night, checked things out around the house and in the upper part of the barn. We see his prints in the snow and I ASSUME the same happens in warmer weather. Looking for rodents I imagine since one day 2 years ago I saw that he went off his straight(ish) path, there was a "scuffle" in the snow, then he came back to the path he was making. He did stick his face in the game camera a few months ago when I had it set up in the feed room next to the coop when I was checking for rats. I think he found the doorway I opened for the alpacas. Not likely he has been back with Merlin down there.

* South of that is a private road that goes to 8 houses up the hill, an unkempt (never mowed) field that is probably 6 acres of my neighbors' (the one with the barking pet dog) 10 acres. South of that is woods. Thus plenty of wildlife opportunity there.


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## Bruce

I'm hoping he will decide -25F windchill is a "stay in the barn temp". That is what we will see tomorrow night and Friday.

Here is a picture of Merlin "on the job" today while I was working on a project in the barn:



I took the chicken wire off that gate so he can go through rather than having to go over.

This is the project. I am repurposing a door that was in the house before we had to rehab an entire building. I only needed to take some off the top. My intent is to have it on double acting hinges but I haven't purchased them yet so I hung it on the hinges it already had. It is tied "half open" so the animals can get back in, they have already done that successfully. I'm hoping that by needing to mess with that door to come back in, they will easily enough translate that to "push on the door" when it has double acting hinges and will be self closing. I have had 2 pieces of 3/16" plexiglass for I don't know how long, I THINK they were part of an entertainment cabinet at some point. And I THINK I snagged them figuring they would make good cold frame covers, but never got to using them for that. I screwed one over the glass on the inside of the door. I'll do the same on the outside with the other piece.
 

Another "on the job" picture:


And one where he actually appears to be alive:


ETA, he didn't eat all the chickens and leave a mess of feathers. The girls have been moulting. Still waiting for Nuit to moult, she is still laying every other day or so. Much as I appreciate the egg, I'd really like her to moult before it gets any colder.


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## NH homesteader

He certainly looks comfortable!


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## Ferguson K

I see hes trained you well.


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## Bruce

Partners train each other, right? Going out Tuesday morning at 4:30 was not him training me but my wife being quite unhappy about not getting enough sleep. Given I had only 3 hours of sleep at that time, I was pretty cranky myself.

He supposedly knows the "suggestion" "Come" but pretends he doesn't. He has however quickly learned "Back" when I come to the gate and want him to back up so I can open it without him having a possibility of going through it. 

And I'm working on just calling his name from a window or door in the house when he is barking. When I do that and he comes to the gate I know whatever he is barking at isn't a significant threat. I saw his reaction the other night when he and Teddy were both alerting at something in the field. WAY different than "you called, maybe you are going to come scratch my ears". And no, I do NOT want to train him that barking is rewarded with ear scrubs. And I don't want him to train me to don appropriate winter clothing and go outside every time he barks.


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## NH homesteader

So...  You're saying it's your wife that has you trained?


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## Southern by choice

Why are you going outside  everytime he barks? 

*You really need to look at this quickly and decide whether he needs to go back to @purplequeenvt *

You got an LGD to protect you alpacas and poultry.
LGD's BARK! 
They bark as a deterrent first!
If the predator is bold enough to proceed to your livestock or poultry then they kill.

Right now he is in a new environment. Prior to his being there you had an idea what was out there but no real concept of how many critters are on the move. The heavier the load the more barking.
There are seasons where they bark more. Like this time of year. As well as sound carries with no leaves on trees and colder air.

Two things-
1.He is going to bark PERIOD! Just because you don't see, hear or smell it doesn't mean it isn't out there.
2. If you do not let the LGD be a LGD you will frustrate and exacerbate the dog. This allowing your LGD to be what you got him for is critical to the trust and best interest of the dog.

Not trying to be a jerk here but if you cannot handle the barking then you need a different type of guardian. If your wife is frustrated and irritated she will end up hating the dog, she will not respect the dog. When these dogs are not respected and they know there is resentment they will respond, mostly in negative ways.

I have seen this before and it can cause a great deal of strife. 
Not everyone is cut out for owning a LGD. If your wife is already this upset with him being there for a few days and he hasn't even fully adjusted... this is not a good sign.

A good example- I can hear my dogs inside the house but I could not hear why they are barking.
A few minutes ago I took Rita out... off in the distance I hear coyotes... I also hear the cows (they are about 1/2 mile away)... not sure if the cows are calving or if it is the coyotes upsetting them but anyway my dogs are going nuts. They go quiet and stay quiet then they get set off. This is what they do.


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## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> So...  You're saying it's your wife that has you trained?


Yes! And no need to hide.

Not to worry @Southern by choice I do not go out every time he barks. The first evening I went out and he came to the gate as soon as he saw/heard me coming, same thing the second time. I figured out then that there were "unimportant" things he barks at. The time he didn't come and was intent on a specific direction, as was the alerting alpaca, I knew it was a true threat outside the fencing. One interesting thing I've seen is that he doesn't react AT ALL to other dogs I hear barking. Doesn't even lift his head. Lots of times in neighborhoods, one dog gets going and then most every dog in hearing range starts up. 

If he is going on a bit I can call his name in a normal tone of voice from the house and he will stop. If the time comes when I do that and he doesn't stop, I'll know I need to go out to see what he is concerned about. I mostly only do this around the time my wife is going to sleep.

I am working to learn the different barks. I think he followed a bark with a bay yesterday. Don't know what that means but I didn't call to him and he didn't keep it up. I called to him once last night when my wife was going to bed and he stopped. Didn't hear anything from him the rest of the night. If he was barking neither of us heard him. Given the expected overnight wind chill of -25F I'm guessing there won't be much of anything on the move for him to be concerned about tonight.

I think the Tuesday morning event was as much an exhaustion thing as not. Mondays are always really busy because even though the P.O.s aren't open on Sunday, mail is still moved so it is often 2 'regular' day's worth of mail. There are days that she can't get in the back of the P.O. as usual because it is packed full with mail. But the light switch for that room is by the outside door so she has to go in at least to turn on the light then go around front to get into the mail room from the other side and start working through it. As you can imagine it is pretty busy at the P.O. this time of year, it isn't a big office and she is the only one there. 

She likes Merlin and goes to see him when she gets home from work to give him ear scrubs even though it is already dark. He happily comes to the front gate between the barns for that. Might even be going there as soon as he hears the car for all I know. I did explain that GP's bark to warn off threats, that he is getting settled, learning what is around and declaring his territory. And I ASSUME the things he is warning off will learn that there is a new threat to THEM that just moved in and modify their activities.


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## Bruce

Today's activities:

Given the wicked wind we are having tonight, I replaced the string on the alpacas' (and also Merlin's now!) door with bungee cord material both outside and in so the wind can't blow it open too far or close it (the original purpose of the string). The alpacas, being wider in the middle than in the front, were pulling the door shut when they tried to get in on my first attempt so I lengthened the inside one and shortened the outside one. Had to do that twice. Had to bribe the boys with pellets in their bins on the gate to try the door while I watched so I could see if they COULD get in. That is how I saw that Laddie was only getting in partway before the door started closing on his neck. Hopefully this needing to push through will be good training for when I have it on double acting hinges.
Attached a large heavy duty clear tarp to the strike post on the gate outside the north end of the barn and most of the way to the NE corner to help block the north wind hitting the new door. It originally helped keep snow off the covered but open sided entry to the half of the house that was rebuilt. It still had the 2x4 on one end and a 2x2 on the other. I screwed the 2x4 into the strike post and connected the 2x2 to the corner post with wire. Don't know how much wind it will block given the door is about 15' from the fence. I also took the 4x8 sheet of plywood that had blocked the door frame when the silo was taken down and put it inside the 'block animals away from the hot wire ground rod piece of "fence". That should block some of the west wind. 
Cut the horizontals off a piece of cattle panel (left over from the fencing project), drilled a hole, above and below, in the middle of the coop frame for the smaller chicken door and slid the "rod" down. This SHOULD be enough to keep Merlin from going in the coop until the chickens realize they can trust him. the 13" opening (unless he decides to push through and bend the "rod" until he gets in) is now divided into two 6.5" wide openings. I don't THINK Merlin can fit through a 6.5" opening. You would think that him not bothering the "ostrich" Faverolles the other day would be a good hint. But as they are bird brains and the Fav with her head in a hole, being unable to see the dog, didn't likely notice that he could have snacked on her any time, they don't realize he isn't likely to hurt them.


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## Latestarter

Merlin is living the high life having an whole barn to live in vice being out in the elements. Long as he has some hay/straw/wood chips to snuggle down into, I'm sure he'll be fine. Mel was just fine laying down on an old piece of carpet out on the open air back porch last winter and some nights it was very cold and very windy. Never seemed to bother him and Merlin has a much thicker coat than Mel... They're really related to polar bears you know... I have that on good authority


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## Bruce

I don't think he was living out in the elements at his prior location. There is a REALLY big barn and sheep to keep the dogs warm 

He doesn't seem to mind being outside all that much. He'll be out even when the alpacas are lounging inside. Of course sometimes the boys are out and he is napping in the barn.

First pass at a "dog excluder" for the coop seems to have worked.


 

I am hoping the girls will get a bit brave and venture out, eventually figuring out Merlin isn't a threat. I don't expect they will learn that he is actually a safety feature but who knows. My wife and DD1 think that when we get more chicks this coming spring, they will not be afraid of him since he will have been there 'forever' as far as they are concerned. I'm not so sure. If the older girls are still afraid of him, the chicks will learn that from them.

It has been said that these dogs are smart and quick to learn. So far I would agree. He backs up from the gate when I go down now, I don't even have to ask him to back up. I don't think I had to ask him to back up more than a few times in the first place. Not only does he back up, he lays down. I didn't ask for that. Maybe I can "teach" him "down"


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## NH homesteader

My chickens are in no way afraid of  my dogs.  Even the one that likes to run through the  flock of them to see how fast they scatter.  Working on that habit! I think they'll be fine with him


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## CntryBoy777

It might be 'Worth' and extra 'Ear Scrbbing or 2'....huh?...


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## Bruce

Yep, he is getting lots of "good boy" and ear scrubbings. He loves those scrubbings!


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## purplequeenvt

Has he started moaning and groaning with pleasure while he's ears are getting scrubbed yet? His daddy does that.


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## Bruce

No not yet, I'll wait for it.  He has yet to say "thanks, that is enough" and walk away. In the morning I put food in his dish and put it down. He looks at it and then comes and waits for ear scrubbing. He might eat some while I deal with the chickens and alpacas but as soon as I'm available again, he's ready. BTW, I'm sure he has molars but I don't hear a lot of crunching. Maybe that is one way to be "feed efficient", no energy used chewing 

I was trying to collect all the burrs he stole from you so I could return them but he's not giving them up easily and now I can't tell which ones he has stored from here. I guess you won't get your burrs back after all.


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## purplequeenvt

That's alright. You can keep them all. No extra charge.


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## Bruce

Today I moved a ladder in the barn alley. WAY long ago a short vertical door was installed to get from the upper (original pre Civil War) part of the barn to the lower (early 1900's). Marks on the wall between the upper and lower parts suggest there used to be a ladder of some sort to make the ~5.5' vertical distance. The people we bought from cut out some of the ceiling (doubled TRUE 1 by) over the alley of the lower part. I think it was done so they could get larger hunks of round bale hay down into the alley. But that is a guess. I only know that they stored round bales they bought from Al in the "overhead" above the lower (shed) part of the barn.

True to form, the guy drove the screws in without pilot holes and kept going until the screw heads were stripped therefore impossible to remove. He did this all over the place  I had to take a "naked" hacksaw blade and cut through each screw that was holding the ladder in place. I took off the top 2 rungs, leaving 4 below. The 2nd from the top rung was was attached with spiral nails. Let's just say that the usable part of that board is now somewhat shorter. My guess is that the owner before him built the ladder and it was originally used somewhere else. Other than the 2nd to top rung, they were all attached with regular wire nails. Near as I could tell he used screws for everything (not knocking that, I do it too). Plus there were nail heads in the upper part of the vertical 2x4s near the screws he stripped in. But I didn't have to cut those, they were already cut, presumably when the ladder was moved. 

 I took a "pre picture" yesterday, no "post" picture yet. Should be a bit easier to get the alpacas' hay bales down from the drive bay now. The door on the back wall in the second picture opens into the drive bay.


 

When Merlin decided that I wasn't going to scratch his ears while I was working, he went out to lay in the snow. The alpacas have been hanging in the barn except to use their latrine. 

After I finished this task, I decided to introduce Echo (the most handled of our not very often handled chickens) to Merlin up close and personal. I took her off the roost and sat down near Merlin. She wasn't at all impressed and wanted to leave pronto as he came over. He didn't even look at her. He looked at me as if I should be holding something else in my hands - his ears. I let Echo go and she went back into the coop. I don't guess she figured out Merlin wasn't a threat. I was expecting him to at least sniff her but he did not. He did get his ears scrubbed though.


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## CntryBoy777

Well at least ya didn't have to use the hacksaw blade in the electrical boxes because of stripped screws....


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## Bruce

That could turn out SO wrong! I believe I would cut the power first.


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## CntryBoy777

Hope so....otherwise you'd be like hitting Mike's Hot Wire!!....


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## Bruce

Nothing exciting today. Drained the well pressure tank. I think it was starting to waterlog. Shoveled heavy rain soaked snow off the deck. Scrubbed Merlin's ears a few times.


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## Bruce

I added cleats to the ramps in the chickens' coop yesterday. They all used to fly down and some still do but I've noticed many using the steep ramp instead and they have to slide to each cleat. So now they are spaced 3" apart. And I replaced the "shelf" at the bottom where the ramp meets the side of the nest box since the old one was made with old wood that cracked and had fallen off.

2 days ago I moved the ramp in the alley that went to their "chicken door in the window" (missing pane, I had made a plywood door). They don't need to use the window exit since at least the alpacas' door is open 24x7 and they don't want to go out in the snow anyway. Or out of the coop with Merlin around. I ran it from the support for the broody buster box (at 4') which they have been using as more roost space (broody box not needed ATM) to the 2' high roost. No one ever roosted on it, they just stage the 4' roosts from it. Even though it is a LOT less steep than the other being a 2' drop over 6' length, they were wary of it so I added cleats to that as well again spaced at 3". Nothing doing. Don't know what is up with these birds. Guess they don't like change. The 5 that came down for scratch flew. Merlin was outside the door at the time and I think many of them won't even come to ground in the coop when he is visible. When he moved off, the Ancona came gingerly down the less steep ramp. By then most of the scratch was likely in the 5 brave birds.

And speaking of Merlin. He did his first bad thing that I have seen yesterday. Probably a repeat of what we didn't see when we came home and had to find the 3 missing hens. I fed Merlin, opened the chicken's door on the coop and tossed their morning BOSS in through the people door. Then I gave the alpacas their pellets, Merlin was over by the gate with me. 2 of the hens dared to venture out into the alley which is where they got their BOSS before I got Merlin. I don't know who saw who first but suddenly one chicken was running back into the coop, the other down the alley toward the open south door with Merlin chasing after  I yelled but he didn't stop or even look at me. The hen took a hard left before the barn door, Merlin stopped at it. He got some "BAD boy"s for that. No contrite look from him. I was not expecting this since he didn't even look at the hen I was holding while sitting next to him the other day.

I found the hen in the 2' x 4' brooding box (no top, it is "stored"), the same place we found her last time. I don't know if he was hoping for play or chasing the running panicked chicken but either way, NOT OK. We then went back to the alpacas' gate. They backed away because they are always afraid I am going to do something nasty to them which has yet to happen. Merlin went through the gate and proceeded to check out and start to eat some alpaca pellets in one of the feeders. Got a "BAD boy" for that too. He still had plenty of food in his dish, I'm not starving him.


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## Bruce

No excitement today. I raised the alpacas gate in the barn alley so it would swing clear of the ground. Moved 3 dump carts of wood from the little barn to the enclosed porch with help from DD1 and DD2. Then they apparated somewhere and I had to move the 4th load by myself. Have enough wood on the porch for something over 2 weeks now I think. 

And of course I scrubbed Merlin's ears and brushed him. Went out at 9:30 to say goodnight. Super windy, thankfully he was in the barn. He seems to have made a small depression in the alley by the outside wall, right across from the chicken coop. Poor birds. They all get nervous when they can see him and there he is sleeping right in front of them.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like you are able to 'Catch your Breath' at least from all the Fencing ya was rushing to get finished with earlier.


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## Baymule

Southern by choice said:


> If the predator is bold enough to proceed to your livestock or poultry then they kill.
> 
> Two things-
> 1.He is going to bark PERIOD! Just because you don't see, hear or smell it doesn't mean it isn't out there.
> 2. If you do not let the LGD be a LGD you will frustrate and exacerbate the dog. This allowing your LGD to be what you got him for is critical to the trust and best interest of the dog.
> 
> 
> This is what they do.



Haha! I read #1 to my husband with extra emphasis!!  Trip BOOFS a LOT! His nose goes up in the air and he trots off boofing all the way. Paris doesn't bark as much as he does, but she tunes up too. My husband gripes that they bark at NOTHING! And I tell him the same, identical thing, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE, SMELL OR HEAR IT, DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S NOTHINNG OUT THERE! This past spring when not one, but TWO does stashed their fawns in the horse pasture behind the house, Paris went spastic barking at them. Those brazen hussies left tracks just a few feet from the backyard fence. Obviously they were unafraid of the power and force of a fenced Great Pyrenees-no matter HOW much she barked at them. I got the same gripe--barking at NOTHING!! Paris was vindicated one morning when I saw a doe practically at the fence and called my husband to the window. I sure rubbed his nose in that one!

There are coyotes ALL AROUND us, sometimes right close to the fence, which they could easily jump to kill everything we have, but they stay away. WHY? Because of two big barky dogs. When the dogs go nuts because there are coyotes too close, we go outside to the end of the driveway. My husband yells, then fires his pistol into the ground to make the coyotes scatter.  Just a couple of weeks ago, I found a huge possum that Paris killed for daring to come into her territory. She kills snakes too. Their barking is music to my ears. If they get too annoying, I go out and talk to them, praising them for taking care of things, never scolding them. That seems to work. They get reassured and appreciated for keeping the sheep, chickens and us safe and sound from coyotes, snakes, feral hogs, falling acorns, talking neighbors, loud trucks out on the road, deer, smells and sounds that we are unaware of.

Train your brain to hear, the barking, but ignore it unless it is a frenzy. There is a difference between warning and confrontation barking.


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## Bruce

Yep @CntryBoy777 no more fencing for now. I've been finding things to do in the barn so I can be down with Merlin as he adjusts to his new home. Well I do need to get a proper gate up between the barns at the barnyard/pond side. Either that or shovel a lot of snow this winter. The west sides of the barns are offset about 14' and the wind channels between them and dumps snow. There have been times where there was no snow right behind the house (because the wind channels between it and the little barn) but 3' between the barns. Had to go down in snowshoes once. 

The difference between no gate with a shovel and a gate with little shoveling is the snow blower on my garden tractor. Works fine going downhill (from house to between barns) and usually pretty well uphill ... as long as I am going forward. That thing won't go up even the slightest incline in reverse even with chains and the 50# weight on the back. Thus I have to be able to go through the gate and make a cul-de-sac to get facing uphill to return to the starting point. I wonder how far down the ground is frozen. Supposed to snow tomorrow, good weather to try and dig a post hole, right?

@Baymule I have explained that to my wife. These dogs don't chase after a predator to get them to leave, they bark to announce their (large) presence and keep the preds from thinking they want to get close. I would like a super powerful flashlight so I can maybe see what he is barking at if it seems to be a "There is a threat" bark vs a "Keep your distance" bark. 

I'll probably jinx myself but Merlin has been pretty quiet the last couple of nights. I've gone down about 9:30 to scrub his ears and say goodnight, then latch the south doors on the barn. At first I was leaving one ajar because the chicken wire was still on the alpacas' gate in the alley. Merlin could get over it (only 3') if he wanted (and did once) and go out their "always open" door in the north end of the barn but I didn't want him to have to climb it. Now that I've taken the chicken wire off, he just walks through it so there is no reason to leave the south door open, it just lets wind blow through. In any case, he only sounded off a couple of times 2 nights ago and I didn't hear him last night until almost 5 AM, the furnace came on 30 seconds later and my wife's alarm 30 seconds after that. She didn't wake to Merlin's bark this morning so I guess she is getting more used to it. I think it mostly bothers her when she is trying to get to sleep and he is barking.

I don't know just how many things are wandering around at night right now. I don't see tracks in the snow on the other side of the fence. The alpacas have decided they would rather hang in the barn (other than at toilet time ) instead of being outside when there is nothing to eat in the snow. Thus Merlin has no need to stay out near them all night like when he first got here, that was before we had snow on the ground. MAYBE he has decided he can stay inside with his animals rather than patrol, I don't know.


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## NH homesteader

It is interesting,  the difference in LGD and non LGD instinct.  My mutt knows when something is a threat but instead of barking  (which he does,  loudly,  if there is a vehicle here),  he does this low growl/bark to get my or my husband's attention and then is silent but holds his stare so we can take care of it.  And thank goodness for his instinct,  he's alerted me to two Bears in our yard! 

Not sure about how far down it's frozen.  I wanted to move one more pen before it froze but I think  I'm too late. 1-3 inches here tomorrow!


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## CntryBoy777

I'd pass on that post hole....I think... and it seems Merlin is settling in on a 'New Routine'....either 'Night Vision or Infrared' cameras would let ya 'See' more of what's going on.


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## Bruce

I said goodnight to Merlin last night but instead of staying in the barn when I closed the south door, he came out with me. When I got back to the house my wife told me he was barking as soon as I left. I think she was expecting a tough time getting to sleep. I heard nothing from him until ... well I don't know because I've not heard a thing from him since 

I gave him the tennis ball rope toy. He sniffed it. I tossed it, he went over, sniffed it. I tossed it again, he went over and chewed on the rope a little. This was all in the alley. So I took it outside and tossed it in the snow. He went over and was chewing on it some more. Then it looked like he was fixing to chomp the ball pretty hard so I brought out the "Mammoth knuckle". He seemed pretty interested in that. I put it in his dish and went to fix the door on the little barn. When I was done I saw him out in the barnyard beyond the alpaca gate chomping away.

I went to the workshop and did some stuff. About 12:45 I decided it was time to eat. I went to see what Merlin was doing first. He was between the barns and there was a large thing where he had been chewing. Curious as to how far he got into the knuckle I went out back and found:






which was last seen in the barn alley with a big knuckle in it.

Near it I found:





And nearby:





Except it doesn't look exactly like that one, the edges are all chewed up  The last two were most recently seen as a unit in the barn under the non functional frost free faucet. There is a slatted wood base about 8" high around the spigot and in the summer I put water in the 1 gallon waterer since the girls prefer it to the nipples. I guess I will be buying a new base next spring.

I have no idea where his knuckle is. I wouldn't think he could gnaw that to nothingness in a couple of hours.


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## Mike CHS

We used to like to hang plastic buckets to the fence with bungee straps until Maisy showed us how much she loved to first chew off a bungee cord and then kill the plastic handle.  We have all galvanized metal buckets now.


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## CntryBoy777

Was the waterer an 'Appetizer' or a 'Desert'?........I bungee the feed buckets to the inside fence...the Boys think it is a Challenge to undo them....so, I have to do them back....so they can undo them.....guess ya can get the picture....


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## NH homesteader

I have clips to attach the water buckets to the fence.  Worst part  is I've discovered that they freeze over in winter and I have to pour hot water on them before I can take them off and bang the ice out. 

It was above freezing all day today  Woo-hoo!


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## Baymule

I lost my glasses once. The dogs found them before I did.


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## Bruce

oops. Hope you had a spare!

I sure hope Merlin doesn't decide to do the bucket thing like some of your animals! He and the alpacas are drinking out of the same one. That would make quite the mess in the alpacas' area in the alley.


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## Baymule

Paris buried her feed pan-never found it.


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## purplequeenvt

I feed my dogs in pails and they like to carry the buckets around. 

Merlin's brother, Bruce, once stole a scrub brush when someone's back was turned and it was found weeks later stuffed into the round bale.


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## Bruce

I think I need to build a feed tray into the barn wall! I put his food dish on a big square of plywood in an attempt to minimize the amount of floor shavings that get in it. But like DD1's cat with the water bowl in the house, Merlin pushes his bowl around on the plywood and often off it into the shavings. I understand the cat thing, they presumably don't see things up close well if they aren't moving so by pushing the bowl the water moves and he can see it. Don't know why Merlin pushes his food dish.


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## Bruce

purplequeenvt said:


> I feed my dogs in pails and they like to carry the buckets around.
> 
> Merlin's brother, Bruce, once stole a scrub brush when someone's back was turned and it was found weeks later stuffed into the round bale.



"lunch buckets" used to be quite common. Guess your dogs are taking their lunch to work.  

So about that giant knuckle. How long would you expect it to last? (Question posed to anyone with a GP that has given them a knuckle).


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## CntryBoy777

Well ya found something that 'Occupies' him, so let him have it as a Toy.....ya wouldn't have to 'Entice' him to play with something he didn't Like....just get another food bin for him....also, it isn't a Chicken either!!....


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## Bruce

True and there wasn't a mark on the metal pan. The non-skid ring was off a bit but other than that one wouldn't know that a person hadn't put the bowl out in the snow. I know he carried it, otherwise there would have been a trail in the snow.


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## NH homesteader

My crazy dog carries her metal food dish around with her and drops it on the wood floors with a giant CRASH! when she feels that it's time to be fed.  She also will go put it in the strangest places so we have to have a scavenger hunt to feed her dinner. My least favorite was when she placed it on my pillow.


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## Bruce

Perhaps she was hinting that she wanted breakfast in bed that morning! At least I know that won't happen given Merlin lives in the barn ... when he isn't sleeping in the snow. I was working on the post hole for the hinge side post for the gate between the barns this afternoon. Merlin looked for all the world like he had just dropped dead in the snow 20' away. Didn't move until I started to pick up the tools when it was getting dark.


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## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> "lunch buckets" used to be quite common. Guess your dogs are taking their lunch to work.
> 
> So about that giant knuckle. How long would you expect it to last? (Question posed to anyone with a GP that has given them a knuckle).




Maisy will get 3 - 4 sessions of an hour or so before we never see it again.  She chews awhile then goes off to bury it.


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## frustratedearthmother

NH homesteader said:


> My least favorite was when she placed it on my pillow.



UGH!


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Merlin looked for all the world like he had just dropped dead in the snow 20' away. Didn't move until I started to pick up the tools when it was getting dark.



Our Trip does a pretty good dead dog imitation too.


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## Bruce

I'm quite certain they are trying to convince any predators that there is nothing guarding the animals and property. Who's afraid of a big dead dog??


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## Baymule




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## Bruce

Apparently this "travelling food dish" thing is going to be a problem. I fed Merlin this morning and dealt with the chickens and alpacas then started working on the gate post outside the big barn. After a bit I heard a noise and looked in the barn. Merlin had picked up his dish, dumped what food he hadn't eaten and was carrying the dish toward the door. Perhaps he would like to eat al fresco? 

Then later while I was working on "deconstructing" the old rotting fence that runs from the NW corner of the little barn parallel to the shed side of the big barn in preparation to replace it with a single cattle panel I heard a metallic noise. I looked over and he was picking up the cardboard box that contained my wrenches. I have heard of this "spirit the tools away" behavior in other GPs. I already have enough trouble finding things I put down even though I haven't moved. I'll NEVER find them if the dog takes them!!

He was staying outside and the chickens decided to dare coming out of the coop into the barn alley. I think they polished off the food Merlin dumped. Probably best, I don't need him eating old pine shavings and dirt trying to pick up the food when next he got hungry. Later there was a HUGE chicken ruckus, Merlin had come through from the alpacas' door. 4 hens headed for the gate between the barns up by the house, 2 more hiding just inside the south barn door. One on the top of the half wall of the "feed room" up against the hardware cloth of the coop. I was going to put Merlin in the "integration coop" on the other side of the real coop. Oops, one of my EEs was in there. I had to tie him up in the alpacas' area and then coerce 8 of my 12 girls back to the coop.


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## purplequeenvt

Don't be surprised if he prefers eating his food off the ground. I don't recall him liking to dump his food, but his mom generally knocks her bucket over as soon as she gets it and then picks every kibble off the ground. 

Maybe get a few 2 gallon buckets (I use the neon colored ones from TSC). Either attach one to the wall or swap them out at each feeding and let him take it where he wants. The bright colors help you find the buckets whenever he may have stashed them. 

They can be quirky about where and how they eat their food.


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## Southern by choice

Yep, we have a few pyrs that will knock there food out and only eat off the ground.

I think Merlin is bored though and this playing with the dishes is a way of self entertaining.

They really are not solitary animals. They are pack animals and much like we remind people that sheep need sheep and goats need goats etc the dogs are the same.

We have always given our pups plastic coffee cans to play with. They toss them throw them and entertain themselves in positive ways.

I would perhaps give him buckets or something similar so that he can amuse himself. Dogs that are bored and have no companion often start messing with livestock.... so if he is playing with buckets - let him have his toys.


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## Bruce

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to change where I feed him, the shavings in the alley/run came from the coop. Prior to the arrival of the big hairy beast, the chickens would spend all day hanging out in the alley if there was snow outside. And we all know what chickens do all day long. I'm sure he has eaten worse, but still. Almost time to get more food so I can pick up a couple of buckets at the same time.  

Cost to feed Merlin (weight approximated at 140 pounds) in the winter: $2.20/day (or less, he hasn't run out of his first 40 pounds quite yet). Cost of only the canned cat food year round for 3 cats (total weight about 32 pounds) $3.21/day (and that includes my "old guy" discount at Petfood Warehouse).

It is curious. At first he would eat his food from the dish no problem. Then he started pushing the dish to the edge of the plywood so it tilted a bit into the alley. And now this. Maybe I'll feed him out in the snow tomorrow (except it is supposed to rain). Silly dog thinks sleeping stretched out in the snow is comfortable.


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## Southern by choice

Yep they love it!
Poured rain here the other day... my dogs are "basking" in the rain. When it snows they LOVE it. 

Remember they aren't housepets... they eat different, sleep different, play different.

Many LGD's will not eat everyday. Do not be surprised.


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## Bruce

Today he was playing with a clear plastic container that originally contained dates. 2 cup size maybe? I use those to bring kitchen scraps to the chickens. He was licking it and throwing it and chasing it. Yep, he is bored. He plays with the ball on a rope sometimes. My only concern with the plastic "toys" he finds for himself is him eating the plastic. That can't be good for him. And of course I would REALLY rather he not choose my ratchet wrenches for his next play thing. 

So far he is eating twice a day. From what you and others have said the "not every day" thing is more likely in the summer IIRC.


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## Mike CHS

What you are seeing tell us that we definitely need another LGD.  Maisy does get bored and when we let the lambs out we have to chain her up since she thinks they are play toys and I don't want dead lambs.   We are doing long lunge lead training but that won't do nothing for your case.


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## Bruce

Nope and since we are still dealing with dog barking and wife wanting to sleep, you KNOW there isn't another dog happening here in the near future. He was silent 2 nights ago but had something to bark at several times last night. One definitely wasn't the "3 bark and repeat" warning to whatever makes noise in the night. Bark Bark Bark howl. OK, I got dressed for that one. The process would be quicker if it weren't winter in Vermont. By the time I got out there, whatever was bugging him had passed, he came to see me when I went through the gate.


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## CntryBoy777

Seems to be doing a Good job....learning new 'Smells', territory, animals, set up, Voices...and Foes....and letting his Presence be known....not to mention a whole new 'Routine' and ya haven't Lost an animal....just some Sleep and Heat


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## Latestarter

Sorry the missus is such a light sleeper... Hopefully over time she'll "adjust" and become less bothered by it. One way to look at it is the more sleep she loses, the more tired she'll become, the easier it will be to fall asleep  Just a thought... Another alternative would be to soundproof the bedroom... Shouldn't take more than a couple of months for total adjustment.


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## Goat Whisperer

Did the DW realize that these dogs bark? 
Hoping she gets used to it, she doesn't really sound like the LGD type 

Perhaps have her take a Benadryl before bed


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## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> One way to look at it is the more sleep she loses, the more tired she'll become, the easier it will be to fall asleep






Goat Whisperer said:


> Perhaps have her take a Benadryl before bed


 you are rotten! 

Maybe get a sound machine for some white noise. 

My dogs are going freaking nuts out there tonight... and I mean NUTS! I can hear at least 5 of them. 

They are serious though, it is the no messing around bark.
I get a bit nervous when it is this intense and isn't letting up.
I see nothing but that is no matter, I usually don't... but they do.

Hard not hearing Callie's bark.


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## frustratedearthmother

Those little foam earplugs are mighty handy to have around.  Comfortable, cheap and effective ... mighty nice stocking stuffer!  Just sayin....


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## Bruce

She is falling asleep easily @Latestarter A bit too easily ... on the way to work if Merlin was "active" the night before. Not sure how we could soundproof the house. Already have triple pane windows and the "walls" are 4" rigid insulation SIPS attached to the outside of the posts and beams. Wood siding over those SIPS. Of course maybe all that "rigidness" doesn't do much to kill sound. Sure can hear the rain on the standing seam roof upstairs and it is over 8" SIPS. There is no attic to absorb any roof sounds though. They put 5/4 T&G pine on the rafters as the finished ceiling before putting the SIPS on.

She has earplugs but I think sometimes they fall out. He only barked once last night that I know of. She recognized it as an "unimportant" bark.  The night before, when he was more active, she recognized the bark, bark, bark howl the night before and said "that one sounds important". First steps to ignoring the unimportant ones right?


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## CntryBoy777

Well after the 'Pressure' subsides at work for her, things will probably work out for both of ya better and level out. when we are agitated we have a tendency to 'Lash Out' at the obvious and make 'Issues' of things that are totally unrelated. Truly it does sound like things are getting Better for ya....at least from down here in Mississippi where I sit.


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## Baymule

I gave Trip plastic gallon milk jugs to play with. Cheap, readily available, and easily disposed of.


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## Bruce

Hey thanks @Baymule! DD1 goes through a gallon every few days. I gather I do NOT need to be concerned about him eating plastic??


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## Southern by choice

Ours don't. We use the folgers plastic coffee tubs with no lid. They carry them, toss them, pummel them...

On the flip side it seems our goats and dogs are OCD they stack empty water buckets and if the wrong bucket gets put in the "wrong" field them are ever so helpful and take them to where they are suppose to be.

We use the heavy duty black round feeders for their food.


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## Bruce

No empty milk jugs available today so I took the wrapper off a 1/2 gallon plastic juice bottle. Made a nice toy, he played with it a reasonable amount.

 Went to TSC today to get colorful 2 gallon buckets (set of 4), dog food and a strainer for the H-brace. They had no strainers  For the moment, the "brace wire" is a ratcheting tie down strap. I need to order more leadout wire from Premier 1, guess I'll add a strainer to  my cart.

Looked at the dog "treats" and picked up a pig femur. When I got home all the dog stuff stayed in the car while I put the brace in the gate. While I was working, he started barking at something toward the northwest. For the longest time I couldn't see anything but eventually 3 deer showed up at the edge of the woods by the field. Odds are very good that they are the doe with her twins that were born behind the pond last spring INSIDE the weasley fence. I don't think she'll be having any more babies there. I told Merlin they were friends and he didn't need to bark at them. Of course I have zero confidence that meant anything to him.

When I finished with the gate I brought the buckets, with the bone in them, from the car and put them on the workbench in the barn. Went back for the bag of food. When I got back the buckets were on the ground and the plastic wrapped bone was in Merlin's mouth. 
I hadn't planned on giving it to him right away. 
I also hadn't thought about how keen his nose is. Probably best he found it then rather than work his way some time later into the room where I have his food can. Seeing as how the plastic probably doesn't add much to the flavor of the bone, has no nutritional value and likely isn't great for his digestive system, I took it away from him to unwrap. Not knowing how food aggressive he is of course I was not pushy. He resisted for about 1/2 second then gave it up. GOOD BOY! I got the plastic off and he took it outside.


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## CntryBoy777

Now Bruce....ya honestly didn't think ya was going to lay a Bone down....in an area that, that big of a dog is in....and think he isn't going to 'Sniff' it out....did ya?....that little plastic wrap is like the paper on a tootsie roll Pop to a child....it is just 'In the Way'....an 'AfterThought'....he makes his 'Livin' with his nose....and there's always Room for just a little More on a dog that Size.....bet he enjoys the Buckets....After the Bone!!.....


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## Latestarter

Reminds me that I always used to give my dogs a smoked pig ear after their bath. One time I took them out in advance of the bath and turned my back for a second and they were gone. Never underestimate the power of the snout!


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## Mike CHS

Every once in awhile I take Maisy a treat.  She usually comes trotting up the fence line as soon as one of us goes out and probably 25-30 feet away she can pick up on whether or not she has a treat.  As soon as I get inside she starts trying to stick her snout in the pocket that has the treat.


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## CntryBoy777

Those goats are that way too...they can Smell it coming...especially if the Wind is from the Right direction.


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## Bruce

Bucket #1 stayed in the barn about 4 hours max. I don't know precisely how long. I fed the animals about 4:30. I inatalled a bucket hanger in the little room where I had put his food dish because it has a wooden floor. Not a nice even nor level floor but no pine shavings from the chicken coop. I put the hanger just high enough that the bottom of the bucket could sit on the floor. Went out at 9 to say goodnight, no bucket. I looked past the gate into the barnyard on my way out. Yep, there is the bucket. I didn't check for damage, I'll do that in the morning.


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## Latestarter

Nice of you to keep the big lug supplied with new toys.


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## Bruce

No damage to the bucket, I left it out behind the barn for him to play with. Fed him in his new "dining room" this morning using colorful bucket #2. I hung it on its hook and went to feed the alpacas. I heard him making noise with the bucket, went back to his room and he was trying to get it off the hook. So I took it off and set on the floor. He ate some then came to find me (needed more scrubbing).

We went to my in-laws' for Christmas, left about 11 AM. Got home around 7:30 PM, put on my barn clothes (this time of year that means my insulated Carhartt coveralls) and headed down. Merlin was waiting at the gate (still there from when we drove in). His V-8 juice bottle (latest free toy this morning) had been brought out of the barn into the area between the barns, two "food buckets" were out in the field behind the alpaca gate. I brought them both in, put one with the other 2 in the room where I keep his food and put food in the other. I set it down on the floor in his dining room. He ate some then knocked it over and started to pick up the bucket. I set it upright and he started eating the food on the floor. He ate about 3/4 of it, then ate some out of the bucket. I am guessing that I will find the bucket in barnyard in the morning. Silly dog.

It will be interesting to see what he decides to do tomorrow. Expected temp at 2 PM - 32F, south wind 20 gusting to 30. ramping up to temp at 7 PM - 38F, south wind 30 gusting to 48.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like a Happy Merlin to me........but, that Weather doesn't make for a Happy Master...


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## Ferguson K

I could not survive the cold .


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## NH homesteader

Eh you get used to it! Except - 10... No one gets used to  that!


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## CntryBoy777

Naw....can't stand the Pain long enough to get Numb...and when Warming up the 'Burn' is never Enjoyable...heck, this arthritis 'Seizes' on me below +20degrees....so, can tolerate 0 for a short time....but, not below that....otherwise I'd be a 'Hibernator' and too much 'Dark' is not Kind for thise that have to 'Put Up' with me...to put it 'Mildly'....


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## Bruce

3:30 PM, Temp 32F south winds 17 gusting to 39. Still on track for a 7 PM temp of 37, winds 30 gusting to 47.

I picked up Merlin's toys including last night's food bucket from the barnyard and put them on the workbench in the barn (put the bucket in the room where I keep his food). I should probably keep a list of what I've given him, remove what gets crunched "enough" and replaced so I know how much stuff to look for in the spring 

Wind is cranking!!!

I flipped the upper hinges on the gates at the front of the barn so the pins face down. Wasn't real worried about someone taking them off since there is no way to lock them but in the dark last night I had to bash up on the cane bolt (they like to freeze into the holes) and the gate came off! With Merlin standing on the other side. Good thing I had my headlight, never would have gotten it back on in the dark. Problem solved now that they are in the proper orientation. 

Wind is really CRANKING!!! Guess it is time to go outside before it gets dark to give the chickens their scratch, the alpacas their pellets and feed Merlin. If you don't hear from me for a long time, I suggest looking in Quebec, the border is only 20 miles north.


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## NH homesteader

Not that windy here. Supposed to get freezing rain and all that garbage overnight  tonight though.  I just hope we don't lose our power! That happens a lot here. 

Are the alpacas letting  you touch  them yet?


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## Bruce

Update (just so you don't worry), I got back to the house 

Dog's dish in the snow in the barnyard. Green food bucket MIA. Gave the chickens their scratch, fed Merlin in the pink bucket. Actually, I put food in it, he didn't eat. Gave the alpacas their pellets. As is common, had to make sure Laddie didn't get all the pellets, pushy guy. Then I had to make sure Merlin didn't eat them. I guess they smell good to him. 

When they finished, Merlin and I went out the alpaca door hunting the green bucket. It was up against the old fence north of the pond. Also collected a rectangular (squished) juice bottle closer to the barn. Gave Merlin scrubs, he actually had enough at some point and went to what I think is his usual indoor bed spot, near the outside (west) wall opposite the chicken coop.

Timely question @NH homesteader !! I tried today with Laddie since he seems to be less skittish. Didn't go well. I had their 2 flat leads, one clipped to the loop of the other. Got it laid over his back but that was about it. Darned YouTube videos make it look like they go all calm when you do that. Nope. We were in their stall, I guess I should have shut the door, Teddy had hightailed it out back. Soon as I had a hold of both ends of the "long" lead, Teddie made for the door. As you can imagine "4 on the floor" is a lot more power than "two in the shoe"  He and the leads went out back. Took some time but I managed to retrieve the leads. Another day I guess.


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## Bruce

Spent much of the day looking for chickens. It was above freezing and blowing a ton all night so a lot of snow melted. Merlin and the boys were out by the solar arrays when I opened the "dog proof" chicken door. The girls evidently decided it was safe to come out into the barn alley, their normal winter haunt. Then they went into the alpacas' stall. Merlin came in for scrubs and breakfast. Then he went down toward the alpaca area. He looked in the stall and the birds started to freak. He took a step into the stall and they REALLY freaked. 10 rans back to the coop, 2 ran the other way and out the alpacas' door with Merlin close behind. 

I got out in time to see Yue going over the rail fence at the NE corner of the barn. Didn't see Penelope. Merlin was coming back from the barnyard so I ASSUMED Penelope was out that way. To shorten the story, I hunted those 2 girls in their usual haunts and anywhere else I could think of for an hour and a half. No tracks in the melting snow to help. Then I had to take DD1 to her Bowenwork appointment, then grocery shopping. When we got back DD1 gave the boys their pellets and threw scratch in the coop for the 10 that were there then started hunting chickens while I put the new registration sticker on my car. Really don't want to forget that. She was all over with scratch in a container shaking and calling the girls with no success.

I got a flashlight so she could see better in places a 23 Y/O 5' tall and way more flexible than me person could get down to. Finally found them under the back deck. I had looked there several times but they weren't answering and I couldn't see them. I put Merlin in the "integration" coop and DD1 slowly walked the chickens down with scratch. I had to play herding dog to keep You from going back around the front of the house. 

12 girls in the coop this morning, 12 girls in the coop tonight. Of course I accomplished not much of anything that I wanted to do today.


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## CntryBoy777

Well Bruce...ya made to 'Appointed Rounds', spent Time with your animals, gave them 'Undivided Attention', the chickens got Extra scratch, and ya did it all without Losing a single one!!....sounds like a Great day to me....


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## NH homesteader

You are a good chicken parent. I don't know that I would spend that much time looking for mine if they ran off. Maybe,  I don't  know,  mine have never not come back to the coop at night.  Except the one time my roo spent the night on our stone wall and he woke me up at 5am crowing outside my bedroom window.  I wished for something to eat him that day!


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## Bruce

Always the optimist @CntryBoy777

Keep it up because I seem to have fallen into the "glass half empty" mindset the last few years. Given what you've posted about your trials and tribulations, you surely have more of a "right" to be that way than I do!

@NH homesteader My girls have ALWAYS gone back to the coop at night so if any are missing when they are free ranging we go look for them. A few are very good foragers and apparently don't notice the "herd" has headed home for the night as the sun gets low. Once the barn gets locked up they would be out for the night which can spell death. Now that the alpacas have their "always open" door at the north end of the barn, a wayward hen COULD get back in the barn though until they figure out Merlin isn't trying to eat them, I can't imagine they would dare come in.

And that assumes that they are foraging inside the "keep the animals in" fence. In the spring, summer and fall, they have access to that and all around the house as well. No way to return to the "safety area". I need to make a chicken door in the fencing between the barns on the house side. NEED to keep Merlin in, the alpacas can't get that far but the girls get quite testy if they can't get out by the house. In the past they would stand at the front gate running their cups against the bars and saying "LET US OUT". When they were allowed to be out I would just leave the gate open so they could go down to the barn to lay but that can't happen with Merlin here. No fencing past that front gate to keep him "home". It has been cold and snowy since Merlin arrived so they've not left the barn other than the 2 panicked girls yesterday.

They are still afraid of the alpacas as well. The few times some of them dared go behind the barn post alpacas and pre Merlin, Teddy ran at at least one of them. Don't know why. Well, except for Yuki who was bound and determined to lay in the weeds by the pond.  I have no idea if they will trust that they can be in the fenced in area come spring. I sure hope so, I don't want them trapped in the coop by their fear nor do I want them out around the house if we aren't home.


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## CntryBoy777

If ya see the 'Glass' as half of its size....then, a glass half full or half empty turns into a Full glass with an Extended rim and with your chickens....I'd figure a way to block off a portion of the alley, so the chickens would feel safe and could see Merlin and get used to him by Spring....even putting up some temporary fencing, possibly use what I know as a Gap gate....tho, I have never been around a LGD so unsure just how it would work...but, I'd find something that did...and I would explain it to Merlin...but, there again I am an animal talker...whether they understand it or not I tell them what is going on...seems to work more times than not...


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## Bruce

I can't find a description of a gap gate, perhaps you could elaborate.

I've told him not to chase the chickens when they run. It either went in one ear and out the other or it never got in the first ear at all 

I used a 24" piece of 3/4" copper pipe and 2 bell hangers (because I had old used stuff in the workshop) to reduce the horizontal opening in the auto door. Now there are 2 openings big enough for a chicken and none big enough for Merlin. I am hoping they will venture out at least when Merlin isn't in the barn. Doesn't do a hen good to sit on a roost day and night. Especially since they have NEVER spent much of their day time on the roost in the coop until Merlin arrived. Now they spend almost all their time up there even when I have the little door (earlier made Merlin proof but not auto) open.

This is the coop, they can see him from the roosts and though the door. The open door is the PulletShut auto door. They don't freak anymore when he wanders by or even looks in through the doors so at least that is an improvement, they know they are safe inside the coop.


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## CntryBoy777

Basically a 'Gap Fence' is one that spans a 'Gap'...and isn't permanently attached except for one end....and the other end is held by loops of wire at the bottom and top....depending on the distance of the 'Span' may have 1,2,or3 sticks attached to fencing between the ends to support the integrity of the fence....used very commonly here between pastures, so a truck can get into it...and to move cattle and horses from one pasture or another....poultry wire will work for the chickens, but doubt it will stand against Merlin....will be posting some pics in a few days of exactly this....going to separate the bird yard so both can be out all day....tho, on one end of the building I am thinking of driving a T post in cause I don't want to handle that much Fence everyday....3-5' is ideal....if ya prefer to spend a little...just get a couple of galvaized Gates and chain link fencing, and hang the hinges on one side and latch on the other...depending on how wide the alley is....when they get used to each other, just leave them open....but, ya will have a Secure area available to use when the Need arises....


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## Southern by choice

To integrate a LGD with poultry it is usually the dog that needs to be worked with, in your case it is the birds. 
Either spend time in the coop and keep Merlin in there or don't do anything and don't coddle the birds. 
Chickens learn quick, they will get it and realize he isn't trying to eat them. But you can speed this up. 
Take Merlin in with you everytime, the birds will come to realize he is friend not foe. If you are trying to make a path or a way the chickens can avoid him you send the message he isn't safe and they will take much longer to figure this out. Having the small door where Merlin can't go in other than his face is scarier to the chickens because it triggers "something  trying to get at them" as opposed to  "he is suppose to be in here".
I have raised over 1000 chickens had a flock of 250 breeder birds and raised 20+ dogs with poultry.
Truly, don't over think it. 

BTW we had to stop the nightly "bed check" with our chickens once we got to over 100 birds.  
We really didn't need to with all the LGD's nothing was gonna get the birds. We currently have 75-100 birds living outside the LGD fence (feral chickens) they sleep in the trees... no dogs with these guys and nothing gets them. The presence of the LGD's pretty much covers everything.


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## Bruce

I'll work on it. I had thought about taking him in the coop on his leash. Wasn't sure that wouldn't traumatize them in their "safe space" though. They seem to have figured out he can't get in the modified doors. After I split the auto door opening today he stuck his nose in and they didn't react at all. Originally they freaked if they saw him in the run through the closed wire covered people door with both chicken doors closed. 

I'm pretty sure I couldn't do a bed check with anything near 100 birds. The most I have had at a time is 16 and the only way I could count them at night to be sure all got into the barn was when they were eating their nightly scratch in the run. I didn't worry about them getting into the coop, I just closed the barn door when I knew they were all inside. With very few exceptions they always got up on the roosts before it got too dark.


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## Bruce

As @purplequeenvt said, Merlin seems to have learned his "table manners" from his mother. This evening I put his food in his pink bucket (after collecting it from the barnyard) and took it into his "dining room". I dumped about half of it in the metal bowl. He ate some of that (after much scrubbing of ears and neck). I went out to put the latch pin on the pipe gate. Soon after Merlin and his pink bucket appeared and went through the gap between the pipe gate and the "fixed panel" (old falling apart gate which used to be the "active" section). He then took his bucket about 40' in the direction of the solar panels, put it down, intentionally knocked it over and ate the food out of the snow.


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## NH homesteader

I was thinking about chickens just now and realized mine aren't really afraid of anything.  Except hawks,  they scatter when they see them. They should be more afraid of the pigs than they are...  They ignore the dogs and everything else.  Must just be what they're used to. I'm sure if you get new ones in the spring theyll think your old ladies are scaredy chickens! Lol

I wonder if the food dumping is because they prefer to eat without stuffing their head in something that obscures their view...  A protection thing? Or is it just a funny quirk? I don't know...


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## Southern by choice

It is getting the chickens to understand their safe space is Merlin's safe space too.
That is why you got him, the chickens and alpacas.
It is not going to traumatize the chickens. It will make them uncomfortable and they will adjust but it will not traumatize them.
Remember as you focus on the chickens and whether they are anxious you are sending messages to Merlin, whether you realize it or not. These are not positive messages.


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## Bruce

This afternoon I started to "condition" the chickens to the dog. I put Merlin's leash on him and took him into the coop (after making sure there were no chickens on the ground) and closed the door. They panicked, two flew down to the ground, doesn't seem logical to me. Merlin sat down, the chickens went back up. Then he laid down. The girls were still pretty agitated. After a while Merlin went to check out the underside of the nest box where the nipple water pipe is. Then he laid down. The girls were more calm by then but on the roost as far as they could get from him. Next he sniffed around under the roosts, that got the girls nervous again as he came under them and they started to head the other way. He then decided it was time to leave so I let him out. Why he had NO reaction to the girls panicking right in front of him but ran after panicked chickens at least twice before is beyond my comprehension. The 2 differences I can think of are:

Merlin was on a leash today
The girls had no way to escape because they were in a closed space, they didn't run

OK, so I get that it is the chickens that need to understand Merlin isn't a threat. But Merlin shouldn't run after the chickens when they panic, right.


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## CntryBoy777

It could be once his 'Curiosity' is satisfied, he won't chase after them. If he feels they are his 'Responsibility', then he has to 'Know' them; and, their 'Territory' too. He has to 'Satisfy his Mind' that he can get to any threat. He may 'Settle' more for ya now, too. Although there will still be Adventures left to 'Unfold' with your 'Growing Group'


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## Bruce

Yes I explained to the girls that he just wanted to know "who" belonged in "his" space and who didn't. I don't think they were listening though.

I brought a plastic gallon milk jug down with me this morning. I showed it to him when I came through the gate. He always takes 1 step toward the barn door in front of me then stops and lets me go first. Such a gentleman. I put the milk jug and the water jug for the heated bucket on the workbench. Then I fed the chickens, gave the alpacas' their pellets then fed Merlin. He wasn't real interested in eating so I scrubbed his ears. Then I went to add some hay to the boys' feeder. Merlin chose that time to go over to the workbench, pick up the milk jug and take it out behind the barn to mangle. His bones and other plastic jugs were still on the workbench. Might be it will become his "toy chest". Or maybe I should find another accessible place to store his "toys" so there will still be a usable surface on the bench


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## Southern by choice

Bruce said:


> But Merlin shouldn't run after the chickens when they panic, right


Wrong. But I will get to that last.

Several things- 
One- I say it all the time... these dogs are smarter than you and know their job
Two- People end up messing up the dog or scolding a dog or correcting a dog when they shouldn't
Three- 
Merlin doesn't need to be on a lead
A lead is used when the dog IS a poultry attacker /killer and needs to be worked with Neither is the case for Merlin 
So what you are doing is sending mixed signals to the dog and the message you don't trust him.

When these dogs feel their master doesn't trust them they are not respected and know it. This is generally the first step into potential issues down the road.
TRUST the dog and get out of the way. Stop coddling your chickens and allow the laws of nature to work things out.
Anthropomorhism is not your friend here.  

With LGD's when a chicken, goat, lamb... whatever makes a fuss and a raucous it is NORMAL AND EXPECTED for the dog to rush to the animal... they need to figure out what is happening and why. Once the dog sees its is ok then it will just stand there and move away. They are protectors. Protectors don't sit back and do nothing. 
If you interfere you are giving the message the chickens are not his and he need not do anything with them... lucky this is a pyr because if this was a Toli then the "helpful Toli" would take your message and think you want the chickens no where where he/she is and would drive them out. That same fuss could mean a hawk came in is going after a chicken... don't you want Merlin to race to it's side?

These are all newbie mistakes but learn from  them. 
Most people realize after about a year it was the dog that had to teach and train them.

A good example is my micromanaging Silver. Silver would not allow baby goats to far out and would move them "in". To those that don't know these dogs they see the dog and think "he's chasing"... no he is keeping them safe. Sometimes too much as he didn't like them out of the barn and I did have to work with that but ultimately the dog was awesome for it because the baby goats could get through hotwire... being on a road that wasn't good!

When Blue and Pete got into it it was over Blue frantically trying to help a chicken caught in hotwire and Pete thought Blue was messing with his chicken.

Micro managing a dog that is already mature and trustworthy is damaging and you can very well mess up a dog by doing this. 
Leave the dog and chickens alone.
One thing that is hard for many new LGD's owners to grasp is this is now MERLIN's space. You need to respect his space, it isn't the other way around.

No matter what field I go to I walk in that field knowing my dogs got everything under control. I have no worries. My job is to feed and care for my livestock and let my dogs do what they do best.
That is partnership.

You've seen the pics of Eliza that is full time with our poultry- when she walks into the building they fluster and make noise and then they stop. They live with her and have for two years.


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## CntryBoy777

He'll have a Toy in each portion of area....so something to 'Occupy' time with, is always close by.....most just see the 'Results' of the actions with stuff scatted here or there. However, how many 'Sounds, Smells, and Seen' things took place to 'Change the Focus' and how long there was a Threat responded to...before he got Back to 'Doing' what it was he was doing before....but, so much Happened it slipped his mind.....just like me sometimes.....


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## Bruce

OK, I"ll do the dog and chicken thing in the coop today without the leash.

So how does he train me to properly ask "where is my chicken" such that he will show me? 

After the "dog in coop" exercise yesterday I realized Echo (Black Australorp) hadn't come to the meeting as required  

Thus began "The great chicken hunt, chapter 2". I had reconnected the auto chicken door when I made it dog proof so the girls could come and go as they dared. She couldn't have come out of the south barn door as it was shut all day (wind and snow) so she had to have gone out the alpacas' always open north door. I'll spare the details but I FINALLY found her buried as far as she could get under the steps to the old piece of deck I had the excavators put behind the barn. And I mean DEEP also behind some dead burdock. Would have likely found her the first time if she were a White Rock. This girl is a forager extraordinaire so the fact that she was hiding from the alpacas and/or Merlin means she didn't feel safe making her way back into the barn. 

So what happens if the alpacas are running at a chicken?? I've seen Teddy do it twice back before snow and Merlin. The girls were too afraid to go into the barnyard for some time after the alpacas arrived and when they did, at least some times they were rewarded with being run at. Given they never got back to their normal pattern of moving from up by the house to the barnyard later in the day, I don't know how many opportunities Teddy had to run at them. 

Will Merlin figure out he has to stop the alpaca? Do I let the alpaca run the chickens? I have no idea why he was doing that.


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## Southern by choice

Bruce said:


> So how does he train me to properly ask "where is my chicken" such that he will show me?


LOL Not his job. Some dogs will do this if they have the aptitude and if they have a strong partnership with their human. But most LGD's won't do this as it is not what they were bred for or purposed to do, they guard.



Bruce said:


> This girl is a forager extraordinaire so the fact that she was hiding from the alpacas and/or Merlin means she didn't feel safe making her way back into the barn.


More than likely you have a chicken that has figured out it likes to go elsewhere. She may even be going broody. This is not uncommon. Sometimes all is smooth then a bird here or there decides oooh I found a cool place to go. Under all those boards and dark places are bugs. They are better eating then chicken feed. LOL this is how our rogue feral birds of MANY are living in the woods.
In all my years and all my birds I have yet to see a chicken that was so scared it went and hid and would not come out. There is a another reason the chicken is doing this. 



Bruce said:


> So what happens if the alpacas are running at a chicken??


The chickens will learn how to stay out of their way. 



Bruce said:


> The girls were too afraid to go into the barnyard for some time after the alpacas arrived and when they did, at least some times they were rewarded with being run at.


All normal.



Bruce said:


> Will Merlin figure out he has to stop the alpaca?


That is not Merlin's job. Merlin isn't there to settle barnyard disputes. 
Think this through- you want Merlin to stop the alpacas from running at the chickens right? What do you want Merlin to do? Bark, interfere, lunge?
Where does that leave Merlin and his relation to the alpacas? Do you want a bond with the alpacas and trust with Merlin? Do you want them afraid of Merlin?



Bruce said:


> Do I let the alpaca run the chickens? I have no idea why he was doing that.


It is pecking order and barnyard issues that will work themselves out.
These aren't house pets where they all have to be a happy family. They are farm animals and livestock.They work it out.

.


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## Bruce

That went well. Except for the part where I was going to video it. For some reason the flip out screen didn't want to work. I don't use it outside because of sun glare and I find it hard to use with my multifocals. 

I tied the people door open and while I was doing so, Merlin went to the water bucket and drank for about 45 minutes  Then he went outside. When he came back in I went to the chicken coop and scrubbed his ears. Then I went inside. I think you are right @Southern by choice, he seemed somewhat reluctant to enter so he did understand I had made it off limits. But he did come in for more ear scrubs. The chickens were pretty anxious though I would say a bit better than yesterday. He didn't really pay much attention to them, sniffed around some and got bored. Except when he decided to investigate the nest boxes. 

The girls haven't been laying but the plastic eggs "live" in the nest boxes year round. I heard him picking one up. What IS it with these dogs and plastic?? I had to give him a couple of "akk"s (or however you spell that sound). I am hoping this is just a plastic fetish and he isn't going to "help" collect eggs when the girls start laying again. I removed all the plastic eggs. It would be nice if I could put them back in the nests come spring, the girls do prefer a nest that already has an egg in it.

I left the people door open the rest of the day and pulled the "dog excluder" from the chickens' auto door. Night time routine as per usual, gave the chickens their scratch (in the coop, pre Merlin it was out in the alley and may be that way again eventually) and closed the people door. The auto door closes when the sunlight disappears.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like the situation is Improving...and your 'Confidence' level will increase each day....


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## Bruce

Nope on Echo going broody. She's 4.5 years old, has never been broody and the last time she laid was in the spring, always a shell-less egg since she restarted in March. Prior to that she was my best layer. She has some sort of "growth" I'm guessing in her shell gland. It is almost the size of a baseball but doesn't seem to be causing her any distress. 

There are no bugs this time of year, it has been well below 0F several times so far. This isn't North Carolina  None of my girls has ever willingly gone out in the snow so she was frightened and ran.

ALL of my girls will hide and not come out if they are frightened by something. Chapter 0 of the great chicken hunt had one behind the barn pretending to be an ostrich but the other had crammed herself behind a bunch of plywood leaning up against the outside wall of the little barn. We had to move half of it before DD1 could get far enough in to grab the hen. She wasn't coming out even for scratch. Of course first we had to find her. She is also a Black Australorp so equally hard to see deep in a dark "hole". Chapter 1 had two girls under the deck in back of the house that were coaxed out with scratch. Slowly. Had to find them as well.


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## Southern by choice

LOL your chickens are neurotic! 
We had a goose gored by a goat horn on her throat-ripped it right open. Never hid.
Chickens (years ago before dogs) that were attacked by hawks, fought them off and never hid.
Once we even had a Min Pin get lost as his electric fence collar thingy had dead batteries and he showed up on the farm confused (neighbors dog) poor thing had to be rescued because he found himself surrounded by 20 chickens going after him... the dog didn't know what to do. 
Even chickens that have been in the jowls of pups never run off and hide.

Seriously I have never seen a chicken run off and hide from being scared. 

Oh and yes more than likely Merlin like most dogs will help themselves to eggs if they have access.


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## Bruce

Then I have a problem. If he is going to eat the eggs, the only reason I have the chickens, he has to be excluded from the coop.

Echo was a half second from being fox food April 2015. Saved only because I was looking out the window when it grabbed her by the neck. I yelled and ran outside, DD1 ran out another door. Fox ran to the woods, Echo ran between the little barn and the house. I thought she was going to go down between the barns to the safety of the coop. When we found her 2 hours later it was at the neighbor across the road diagonally, about 400' away. 

Now you know why the chicken crossed the road.


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## Southern by choice

Well you have the chicken door and that is adequate. 
He doesn't need to be IN the coop he has run of the aisle and the barn that is pretty much all he needs from the indoor perspective.
I thought you just wanted the birds to know he is ok and not some predator.


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## Bruce

Guess I'll be putting the dog excluder back in the door when the chickens start laying again. Hopefully by then they will be comfortable coming and going from the coop when he is present.


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## Bruce

This morning I did the animal feeding thing, put Merlin's food in the green bucket in his "dining room". One of the Favs came out of the coop and went into the feed room (between the coop and the 'dining room'). I have no idea why she did that but I went in to rake the coop. Shortly I heard her making a commotion and thought maybe Merlin had gone in the feed room.

Nope, passing the coop was Merlin's green bucket, dog attached of course. I guess the hen saw him go by and panicked. He went through the alpaca gate and took his breakfast out their north door and went to the area in the barnyard he favors just south of the gate that keeps the alpacas from coming up between the barns. Meaning, he carried it upright about 150'. He put it down, stuffed his face in and started eating. Clearly he would just prefer to eat outside so in the future I'll do it his way. No idea why he didn't go out the south door unless he couldn't get the bucket through the opening. It was pinned in the "chickens can come and go" position. Merlin can squeeze through, I can't.


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## Bruce

Chapter 3 of "where are my chickens".

I was moving some wood from the little barn to the enclosed porch. As I was putting the garden tractor away I heard a chicken making a big ruckus. When I got to the gate between the barns I saw a Faverolles behind the alpacas' exclusion gate running toward it with Merlin on her tail. Of course I didn't see the start of this and maybe she got too close to his green bucket (empty). I picked her up and put her in the coop. Counted, missing the other Fav, Persephone (my best laying older EE hen) and one of the White Rocks. I found the Fav in the same place I found Echo. Not moving a muscle, not even when I put scratch in front of her. At least this time there were no dead burdocks to pull out of the way.

I found Persephone buried in a green garden hose that was leaning against the wall with the black plastic sled against the hose. How she got in there I don't know but even after I moved the sled she was as still as a stuffed animal.

Couldn't find Yuki in the barn or in back so I looked under the back deck. Nope, but I did see some chicken prints heading north. I found her under the steps to the enclosed porch out front. Lots of 'out from under, hide under the branches of the lilac right next to the steps, back under the steps' (rinse and repeat) I got her out to the driveway. Could I get her to head down to the barn NO! Back under the steps she went and then under the porch. She wasn't going for the "look I have scratch" thing that got the two girls out from under the deck in a previous chapter. She was captured after at least an hour and only after adding my wife and DD1 to the hunt. DD1 crawled under the porch (easier at 5' almost 2" and 23 years old than for me!!) and got her to go out the end. Where she then turned tail and ran right back to the steps.  Eventually with DD1's body blocking the opening under the side of the steps she managed to catch the wayward bird and carry her down to the barn.

Perhaps @Southern by choice would care to send a "we never hide from anything" chicken up this way to school my girls.


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## Southern by choice

It really is strange. I don't doubt what you are saying it just is not the norm.
I would put up netting so they can't get through fences and make them face the music!


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## Bruce

Yep. Originally they didn't seem to be able to get through the vertical bars on the upper gates, worked fine all summer. Don't know if they got skinnier or if fear will shoot a 'too big' bird through a 'too small' slot. I will be putting some wire over those gates tomorrow.  Too bad, they are kind of attractive now. Won't be with wire attached in some fashion.


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## CntryBoy777

Well Bruce just think of it as temporary....and you'll have your attractive gates back before long....Hopefully


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## Bruce

If they can get through, it isn't temporary  When I want them to stay in the back, I want them to STAY in the back!!  Plus we need to get some chicks this spring. They can fit through no problem!

I have 2 human/LGD behaviour questions

When I go to the top gate, Merlin will back up so I can open it. I scrub his ears then say "let's go to the barn". At this point of course he is between the door (~45' distant) and me. He will take one step down the slope then move sideways and wait for me to take the lead. Always. I have not asked this of him, in fact I assumed he would go ahead, most dogs do I think. Is this something related to our relative position in the "pack" or something else?
I go down every night about 8:30 or 9 to say goodnight. We go into the barn because it isn't windy in there and is sometimes a bit warmer. Then he gets ear scrubbing and sometimes a bit of brushing to get the ice out of his fur.
Is this something I SHOULD be doing, as a bonding thing? 
Is this something should NOT be doing for some reason? 
It doesn't really matter?


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## Latestarter

Hey CntryBoy... That would probably be right after the silly birds do the chicken little thing about the sky falling and suffer heart failure. Probably best to start over with new chickens anyway... that way they'll accept Merlin as part of the fabric of life on the farm.


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## Bruce

As you know that doesn't work here! 

If I were a "proper" farm with no restrictions, the Favs would be gone, they were never very good layers and a MOUTHY. And Zorra (big BA) though she did a good job raising the 2015 chicks. Echo should be gone due to the shell-less eggs that started this past spring and whatever that growth is but she wouldn't be. She is the most personable of my girls so she would spared as a pet (even though my spoiled butt chickens are not pets). Yue has laid only 64 eggs this year and has moulted twice, summer and fall so she would be replaced. Of the 2012 girls, only Persephone has remained a good layer through 4.5 years of life. She laid 109 in 2016 and always XL or Jumbo. Don't know how she will do come spring of course.

Waiting to see if any of the 2015 girls pick back up this winter. I got the White Rocks because they supposedly will lay some in the winter and should lay a reasonable number of years. They and the "non-standard" Black Australorps did quite well their first full year of laying.


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## NH homesteader

Wow you keep way better track of who lays how many eggs than I do.  I either get eggs,  or I don't. Lately I mostly don't 

You should get some calm breeds.  My Dominiques are the most mellow birds.  Of course they're also not the best layers and don't lay very large eggs so if you are only keeping chickens for eggs they might not be your favorite.


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## Bruce

Only the Favs are mouthy. Anconas are a breed I would not get again unless that is all I had. They felt a great need to remind the other girls who was top of the flock quite regularly even though their status was never challenged. Yue has been a lot more mellow of late. Might be because she moulted. Both she and Zia got pretty submissive when they moulted. They never go near bald like some of the girls but they sure look silly with no tail. Zia died from, I think, heart issues this summer. Yue hasn't been near as aggressive since she had no partner to back her up so that could be it as well.

The BAs and EEs are calm and other than Yuki having a desire to lay out in the bushes the White Rocks have been good birds as well. I'm thinking maybe a couple of Barnevelders though they are expensive, about 3X something like a BA or RIR, etc. Maybe some white or brown Leghorns for white eggs. All white is boring but so is NO white  Besides liking different colors and hues, there is no way I could track who is laying if I had a flock of all the same breed. Since I don't cull I guess all this data analysis is pretty OCD isn't it!

I haven't seen a new egg since Dec 9th when Nuit stopped laying. Not sure when I'll see another. 6 frozen eggs thawing in the fridge for tomorrow's omelettes.


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## NH homesteader

Leg horns don't so that well in the cold do they? My new Dorkings will lay white eggs! But...  If you're worried about expensive...  My taste in birds is rather expensive. 

Everyone I know who has BA's loves them!

How are frozen eggs,  texture wise?


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## Latestarter

Unless you scramble them before freezing, a frozen whole egg will unfreeze with the yolk the consistency of a boiled egg, so really, that's about all they're good for.


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## Mike CHS

I'm curious about the frozen egg texture also.  We did several dozen once of scrambled eggs and froze some and dehydrated some as an experiment and both turned out good.


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## Southern by choice

Bruce said:


> If they can get through, it isn't temporary  When I want them to stay in the back, I want them to STAY in the back!!  Plus we need to get some chicks this spring. They can fit through no problem!
> 
> I have 2 human/LGD behaviour questions
> 
> When I go to the top gate, Merlin will back up so I can open it. I scrub his ears then say "let's go to the barn". At this point of course he is between the door (~45' distant) and me. He will take one step down the slope then move sideways and wait for me to take the lead. Always. I have not asked this of him, in fact I assumed he would go ahead, most dogs do I think. Is this something related to our relative position in the "pack" or something else?
> I go down every night about 8:30 or 9 to say goodnight. We go into the barn because it isn't windy in there and is sometimes a bit warmer. Then he gets ear scrubbing and sometimes a bit of brushing to get the ice out of his fur.
> Is this something I SHOULD be doing, as a bonding thing?
> Is this something should NOT be doing for some reason?
> It doesn't really matter?


1. I can't see his posturing  so don't know but no I do not think it is a position thing. I think Merlin is very gracious with you and he is patient with you. It almost sounds as if he is trying to show you how partnership works.
2. I think it is a great thing. Just keep in mind if one night he is not in agreement  leave him do his thing.


Question- Is this the same coop the birds have been in for all the time you have gad them?
Any significant change you made just prior to Merlin?

This really does have me curious. 
I truly have never seen this. I have placed, or helped place many LGD's into new farms and have never seen this.
I haven't even see birds do this that were caught in a LGD's jowls.  Some birds will go right back at the dog.
I've dealt wit h a lot of poultry issues (where people dogs are chasing poultry) and still not seen this.
It really is interesting and strange all at the same time!


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## CntryBoy777

I wish all of ya was closer to me, because I'd be Glad to give ya Fresh eggs....gave away 12dz the other day and have 8 full cartons in the Fridge right now!!


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## Bruce

Following information found on the internet (which is always accurate!! ):

How people do this in an ice cube tray I have NO idea. The white of 1 large egg barely fit. I used silicone cupcake "wrappers" in a muffin pan. Easy to pop the egg out and into a ziploc once frozen.
You have to scramble the yolk and white before freezing but you DON'T want to introduce any more air than absolutely necessary. 
The first one I tried I made a egg, sausage, Wolferman's English muffin sandwich. Didn't think ahead so it was thawing while it cooked. Turned out OK actually. The next two I thawed, again without planning. Seems a frozen egg takes LONG time to thaw at room temp so I put the bowl on the ground in front of the woodstove to speed it up. Probably heated them up more than would be desireable. There were a couple of lumps. Used those in waffles. Turned out fine. Guess I should see how the eggs in the fridge are doing. I would like to see how a "not forced to thaw" egg looks.

Re the Leghorns and cold. Don't know (should probably research) but one wouldn't think Anconas or Cubalayas would be cold tolerant and they did fine. I noticed the Anconas' combs were smaller after their first adult moult than they were before going into their first winter. Maybe they "learn" to adapt. Never had a frostbite problem.  The Dorkings look to have a pretty large single comb as well. Not sure I want to take up space for chickens that lay Small eggs though.


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## Bruce

Southern by choice said:


> 1. I can't see his posturing  so don't know but no I do not think it is a position thing. I think Merlin is very gracious with you and he is patient with you. It almost sounds as if he is trying to show you how partnership works.
> 2. I think it is a great thing. Just keep in mind if one night he is not in agreement  leave him do his thing.
> 
> 
> Question- Is this the same coop the birds have been in for all the time you have had them?
> Any significant change you made just prior to Merlin?
> 
> This really does have me curious.
> I truly have never seen this. I have placed, or helped place many LGD's into new farms and have never seen this.
> I haven't even see birds do this that were caught in a LGD's jowls.  Some birds will go right back at the dog.
> I've dealt with a lot of poultry issues (where people dogs are chasing poultry) and still not seen this.
> It really is interesting and strange all at the same time!



None of these birds has ever seen another coop. All arrived as day olds. 6 of the current birds in 2012, raised in the house in a bathtub and heat lamp (never again, I know the MHP method now!), moved to the coop at 3-4 weeks. The other 6 in 2015 raised by Zorra in a hardware cloth enclosed brooder space in the coop. She was never a particularly vigilant "watch for danger" bird until she had those chicks. Then she was on high alert ALL the time.

No changes to the coop but the alpacas did arrive 2 months before Merlin and they wigged the birds out as well. But since they can't get to the chickens side of the barn, they were still acting normal other than not going in the barnyard/pond area very much. They used to go out there morning and evening, spending their days up by the house.

Merlin hasn't rejected nightly ear scrubs yet! But sometimes he is more insistent about "MORE!" if I stop scrubbing than he is at other times. Last night he was out barking at something when I went down. He came up when he heard me and had probably 10 minutes of scrubbing, brushing, etc. Tonight I think he was asleep in the barn because he was doing a lot of stretching when I opened the door. He didn't seem to need as much scrubbing tonight and left the "scrubbing (until today, dining) room" (there is a low seat in there that I use) after a bit so I got up and we went outside. He found something to bark at and I came back to the house.



CntryBoy777 said:


> I wish all of ya was closer to me, because I'd be Glad to give ya Fresh eggs....gave away 12dz the other day and have 8 full cartons in the Fridge right now!!


You can stick some in the package with that Black Walnut when you cut it  I did find a bit of Pentacryl, I'll send that down and you can "paint" the ends soon as the piece is cut. Should help keep it from cracking before it gets here for repeated application.


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## CntryBoy777

The HomeDepot in Horn Lake is suppose to have some....at least that is what the website was showing....they sell a qt and isn't hi$ will be getting up that way probably next wk before the weather hits, and while up there was planning on cking it out....I'll let ya know what I find....there are a couple of WoodWorking suppliy places in Memphis too....gotta go up there and get some Red sakrete for some Posts....


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## Bruce

The quart bottles are ~$21 whereas a gallon is $63 but if you can get it at the store, the difference wouldn't be too great since the cheapest shipping on the gallon is $10. 

BUT ... I don't see it on the HD website


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## CntryBoy777

While I'm there will check and if I have any questions will send ya a pic of the bottle...just to make sure.


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## Bruce

@CntryBoy777 , I need that special glass you have.

10:30 AM, the great chicken hunt chapter 4. Found a Fav in the "not room" to the right of the south barn door. Found 3 girls in the feed room BURIED behind or under something. Found Yue crammed tight behind the compressed pine shaving bales in the "ear scrubbing room". Only the Fav was not buried, she was sitting on a makeshift shelf about 4' off the ground.

About 1 PM, went to do something down in the barn. When I opened the upper gate to leave Merlin bolted through. Mind you he's not tried that on me before and I didn't do anything unusual, opened it just enough from me to get through. Called the reinforcements as he went running around the yard. DD1 snagged him by the collar, I went to get the leash.

Wife decides he just wants to go for a walk around the property. I told her I had been told that was a bad idea. They walked around the yard then out into the north field to the end and back. She chose not to let him take her into the wetland halfway back. Put him back in his area.

I had wired some 2x3 fencing to the south gate of the upper pair to keep the chickens out. Still needed to do the north gate. But ... oops, the gates are held shut with cane bolts. I don't know about your families but no one here has a hand that can fit through a 2"x3" space to reach the cane bolt from the inside. So first I had to put the gate latch on it. I hadn't done that before because whoever made these gates never considered someone might want a double gate and the latch part is supposed to go on a 2" metal post. The gate bars are only 1" so I needed to make a spacer block. On one of my trips from the workshop (N end of barn) to the gate (S end of barn) for test fitting there was Merlin outside the barn licking an aluminum plate of some sort. Must have come out of someone's trash can Thursday when the wind was blowing all the containers over. The gate was still closed but the 2/3 wire was pushed down so the gate was now only 4' high with the wire now making a "springing" 1' high step.

I GUESSED Merlin had gone over the gate and I removed the wire. Put Merlin in the back and figured I might as well finish the gate latch, didn't want to leave it half finished. Back to workshop to find a block of wood to make the spacer. On my way back to the door "Hi Merlin" OK so He wants company or something. I put his leash on, went to the gate to do some measurements and brought him back to the workshop. Closed the door, it is a barn door on rolling (only they don't roll so well) hinges on a top bar. Merlin checked things out and I went to work on the piece of wood. Needed something, turned around, no Merlin. He had pushed the door and it opened a large gap (no way to hold it shut from inside. So there he is outside trotting around. I brought him back in the workshop and attached his leash to the planar table. When I was done working on my spacer, he was still there.

Back into his area he goes, I finish putting on the gate latch while he hung out nearby. Then I rearranged the plywood leaning against the little barn near the gate since I figured the only place he could have gotten out was near there. Tried to make it so he couldn't get past it. Admittedly this was a week spot in the fencing since it only needed to keep chickens in the back. Merlin hadn't challenged the gate and I didn't think to deal with that weasley section between the gate post and the little barn. Definitely a failure on my part.

I went toward the workshop so I could watch when he got out again. No dice. Then I hear chickens squawking. Down to the barn I go and find Merlin on Penelope's tail in that first "not room". She crammed herself between the wall and the edge of the brooding box.I got past Merlin and picked her up. Back to the coop, count the chickens, still missing one. Yue, second time today. I KNEW she hadn't gone out by the upper gate because I was trying to catch Merlin escaping. I found her crammed into the corner of the Alpacas' stall below the  loose mineral corner feeder. That would be the location specified by my wife as "She isn't in here unless she is in the corner I can't see 

Back to the house, watch the gate from the bedroom window. Merlin was working away at the area I had rearranged, shoved himself between the plywood and under the mass of chicken wire and 2x3 wire. So now it is 4 PM, getting dark and I have to do something about a real piece of fencing in the 4' gap between the gate post and the little barn. Poor timing. I managed to get 1 T post in about 5" from the barn wall. Could NOT get one in closer to the gate post (@#$^%Y rocks). I had a ~11' piece of 48" sheep and goat fence left from when I put in the East fence line. I ran it (best described now as 4' wide and 10' tall ) up between the T-post and fence post. Used fence clips to connect it to the T-post and wire to connect it to the gate post. I ran one "row" out as a skirt into the area between the barns so he couldn't possibly squeeze under. I would have run more, to get buried in the spring but the plywood is in the way. So there it is, attached going up about 8' then looping back down to the "standing" part at the top of the 5'+ tall gate. ASSUMING he doesn't escape that, I'll need to tidy it up in the spring with more skirt so I can make a "dig resistant" bottom to the fence.


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## frustratedearthmother

Wonder if he's kin to Cowboy?


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## Baymule

Or you could put up a hot wire.


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## Southern by choice

Merlin is bored.  You may need to do some family time outside his area to help with boredom.
Poor Merlin. It must be tough on him.


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## CntryBoy777

Oh my, what an "Eventful" day. I do understand your frustration and I do "Laugh and Cry" right along with ya. It truly is amazing how animals can "Test your Mettle' and resolve too. 
I had a similar event when we brought the goats home for the first time. I had read 4 books on goats, did some research, worked my tail off changing the old chicken house over to accommodate them, and should mention was "Proud" of my work. We were ready to Welcome our new members with open hearts, arms, and mind; I even vowed and promised them that they would be safe and I would protect them. We kept them in the pen and went in with them the next day to get aquainted, everything went well. That is until my sister called me....she was down staying with Dad a couple of days....and told me the goats were out. Well we jumped into action and went running with leads in our hands and pellets in our pockets. Comet has always been an easy one to catch cause he likes attention and rubbings. Lightning on the other hand is a runner and fast...thus his name. Well we finally got them and Star was still in the pen. Then it was time to find the escape route, in getting things ready I had missed securing the bottom portion of a section of fence, so they pushed out and under the fence. Although, now the bottom of the fence wouldn't reach, having been bent out of shape; so, I had to improvise with some wood I had. Needless to say my "Pride and Confidence" was as deflated as it could be.
I certainly don't want to give advice that would conflict with the developement in your relationship with Merlin; and don't want to be "Chastised" by SBC.  I do agree that your situation seems to be due to the chicken's behavior. Latestarter has a wonderful suggestion about developing a new group, but that doesn't resolve the present situation and facing a daily routine of putting "Fires Out" can wear and tear on ya. Since, with any animals, there is an "Introduction Period" and the chickens have been left to "Accept and Deal" with it, I go back to my original suggestion of a temporary barrier that allows them both to see, smell, and hear each other before there is a full emersion; more for the benefit of the chickens and you. I appologize ahead of time if I am wrong and just showing my lack of experience and knowledge, but it would be an immediate solution. It may not be the best one, but that is my opinion....unless SBC changes my way of thinking with her post....she thinks much differently than me, so I learned from each of her posts.


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## Bruce

Southern by choice said:


> Merlin is bored.  You may need to do some family time outside his area to help with boredom.
> Poor Merlin. It must be tough on him.


So it IS OK to take him for walks outside his area? I understand his role is LG/farm Dog but I don't know the proper balance or how to achieve it. We could play with him if we knew how he wanted to play. I gather GPs aren't ball and stick chasers. 

A funny I forgot to post. I got his green bucket for dinner, put his food in it and placed it outside in the general area he takes his buckets. He picked it up and trotted about halfway down the pond, then across the pond to the north side and came up on "land", then turned around, retraced his steps to about where I had put it and started eating.  We really have no idea what to make of that. I wonder if he will figure out when it is no longer safe to walk on the pond come spring.

I would love to have had enough time to replace the dilapidated fence around the house yard so his area would include the house (at least the outside of it  ). That would give him an additional half acre and the ability to be with us if we are outside. But the rails are rotting and falling off the wood posts. Prior owner didn't use PT and slapped latex paint on them. Latex seals in every bit of moisture that gets under it into the wood. I can't think of a better way to ensure rot. Like every other post here, they are all wiggly which suggests they aren't in very deep and wouldn't support a fence. As such they would all need to be replaced.

To be fair, we aren't normally out that much this time of year plus my wife is at work 6 days a week and the DDs hide in the house most of the time anyway. I've made a big effort to be outside IN his area a lot since he came. But if I'm working on something he's figured out there won't be any ear scrubbing and goes somewhere to lie down. "Somewhere" isn't near me most of the time. 

@CntryBoy777 Even when the girls are in the coop they can see Merlin and he can see them through the wire that covers the openings. 3/4 of the walls are 4' high plywood with wire above that. The only wall that is wood all the way up is the back wall. Even the people door is a frame with wire over it. The problem only seems to occur if the girls come out of the coop. I would have to get the game camera out to see the start of the "chicken run and hide" game to see if there was any obvious trigger and how it starts. They seem to deal OK with him going in the coop as long as they are all up on the roosts. He doesn't even look at them (at least not when I'm there  )


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## CntryBoy777

May be some roosts placed in other areas would give them an Escape to Safety in their mind, enough that they wouldn't Scatter on ya a couple in the alley might do the trick for ya. As far as the bucket goes, I'd keep hanging it inside for him to take his Lunch to Work with him so he thinks he is doing something Constructive....just a thought. I always watch an animal and work with their 'Natural Tendencies' to get things accomplished....less discipline, training, and a whole lot less Frustration.


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## Latestarter

Seems like you've met a very intelligent beast there Bruce. Maybe get him some wire spools or other "exercise yard" type things for him to play around on out in his area. Seems like he needs a challenge and since one isn't forthcoming, he's "making do" with what he can. I think the thing with the food dish is just him "working for his meal". Won't much matter where you fill the bowl, he's gonna carry it around for a bit to earn his food. Sorry he's been testing escape routes, but at least for the time being he's staying close when he's successful. 

Just one word of caution... when he does escape, do NOT chase him to try and catch him. He will think that this is a wonderful game you want to play and trust me, he can go a much farther distance, faster, and has better endurance than you do. Far better to just meander around with him and let him think it's his idea as you put the collar/harness/lead on him, then gently work your way back to where you want him. Think partnership rather than "obedience"...


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## Bruce

Wife melted down last night. Afraid she is going to kill herself falling asleep on her commute to work. Said it has happened 3 times each on 2 days. She can not block out Merlin when he is at work and he works nights. She gets up at 5 AM for work 6 days a week. She is frequently pretty stiff and uncomfortable with her RA which makes it hard to get to sleep anyway.

Very very  I will be returning Merlin to @purplequeenvt on Wednesday. DD1 looks on the outside  like I am on the inside. Doing my best for @CntryBoy777: My 1/8 teaspoon is half full, the fencing I put up to keep Merlin in should keep the coyotes away from the alpacas.

This is not good for PQV either. If it happens we have someone here that PQV feels would be a good match for him, I am willing to do some transport. Maybe a "doggie express" if there are intermediates on the route willing to drive some miles AND those that know about such things don't think it would be too hard on him to have several people moving him along.

He is a very good dog. I was out with him last night. Seems we have a coyote pack NE, he and dogs that direction were sounding off as the pack was howling. Later he and the dogs SW were on. Later still he and the dogs south were on. That pack was loud, I seriously doubt they were more than 300 yards away in the woods past the south neighbor's property. He hears what I do not, smells what I do not and can go from "dead on the ground" to "rocket" in 1/4 second.

He doesn't have a long fence line on a road people walk on much this time of year but I've never seen him bark at someone on the road or on the neighbor to the South's driveway that parallels it. Their house is set back 650' from the main road and he will go to the fence and watch, follow along the fence line but not go nuts barking at them to stay away like some dogs do. He seems to know they aren't planning to come his way. He doesn't even look when the neighbor to the South's dog is barking as it often does during the day; yada yada yada, unimportant. He and the alpacas get along fine and I'm sure the whole chicken thing would have worked itself out. He is very people friendly. 

For @CntryBoy777 who's wife has decided a GP is something they might get:

Fence! @Mike CHS will attest to this 
They bark. Loudly. For as long as they perceive a threat. They are warning that threat to not even think about coming near. They don't wait until it is a yard from the fence then warn. Merlin didn't see any coyotes last night but he was making sure they knew where he was. Unlike a lot of 'pet' dogs, I don't think I've ever seen/heard Merlin barking to hear himself bark.


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## Goat Whisperer

Poor Merlin


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## Southern by choice

Any grown dog being placed in a new environment should always be placed with a trial period.
It doesn't do anyone any good if things are not working out.

Merlin is bored and this is also why pairs are best. Singles can be placed but they need to be evaluated for the purpose of being a single and the temperament.
Always best to have a dog in the right place, even when it hurts.


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## Beekissed

Wow, Bruce!  I just found your journal, didn't know it was here.  I'm sorry you have to send Merlin back....he seemed so good for you, seemed like you had found a bud.  He's a great dog!


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## CntryBoy777

I do grieve with ya my Friend!!  I know it has been a challenge for ya, and he was becoming a great companion for ya and the animals, tho the chickens hadn't come around to that way of thinking yet. However, there are still others to consider as difficult as it is and the inner turmoil does effect all those involved. The sacrifice of your new companion certainly isn't worth your unity of many years. It is worth allowing him to find his right niche than to create a real life disaster to not only deal with, but to live with too. Your internal desire to go to the nth degree for your animals is certainly admirable, but can never stand in the way of those vows spoken many yrs ago. So, it is a very sad situation, but it seems you truly have no choice and the decision to return him is the best solution, unless NH sees a way to meet ya, or another up that way. I would take him, but there is too much work to do before I can seriously consider it at this point. Though it is tough I support ya with your decision, and will miss the updates of Merlin & Bruce's Adventures. Even though ya feel your heart being split in half....just remember that lovely Bride ya made vows to and ya have to Support her.


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## Latestarter

Truly sorry Bruce. Trust me when I say I know exactly what you're feeling. It hurts. Hopefully PQVT will find a suitable replacement, placement for him. I gotta say, you have a heart of gold. You do without a lot that you'd like for the sake of others. I hope they at least partially realize this. One of my past screen names was altruistic1...


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## Baymule

So sorry about this Bruce. But your wife has to come first, can't have her falling asleep and driving off the road. I hope PQV can find him a suitable home, he sounds like a good dog.


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## TAH

Very sorry Bruce . 
I will miss the updates on Merlin , I hope pqv can find him a good placement .


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## Southern by choice

you are doing the right hing Bruce. 
I can tell you have already fallen in love with Merlin. 
The trial period honestly a tough one for everyone.

Some time ago one of our Pups (2 years old now) went to his home they LOVED him and had visited for months waiting to get him.
About a month later there came a situation with an impending move and there was so much up in the air I requested the dog return back to us.
It was painful for the family - I would have kept him forever- lo and behold I got a call in Dec and everything was worked out, they were nervous that I wouldn't allow them to have the dog.
Truth is I knew this dog would return to them when the time was right. I can tell you allowing him to leave the 2nd time was tough on me but he really was meant to be with them.
Sometimes things just don't work out. Sometimes things take twists and turns you don't expect.

Yet I hope you take comfort in knowing that you cared for him very well in the short time you had him, and that Merlin will be ok. PQ is doing the right thing as well by taking him back.
Most important is that you care and love your wife.


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## NH homesteader

Sorry Bruce. I wish I had adequate fencing,  I'd be making a call to purplequeenvt.  Merlin sounds like a lovely dog. But definitely the right thing to do,  never a good thing to have an animals owner suffering or fighting because of him.  

Maybe look into a Llama?


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## Mike CHS

This was a hard thread to catch up on but I truly hope Merlin gets his perfect home and your life can get back to being less of a challenge.


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## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> Sorry Bruce. I wish I had adequate fencing,  I'd be making a call to purplequeenvt.  Merlin sounds like a lovely dog. But definitely the right thing to do,  never a good thing to have an animals owner suffering or fighting because of him.
> 
> Maybe look into a Llama?



I thought about you but know you don't have proper fencing. Really too bad since you are close. I think @Mike CHS needs a pair of dogs and since he already has Maisy, he needs a male  At least he has a more reasonable number of livestock than I do for dogs to guard.

No llamas. No value there, it could as easily be prey for coyotes as fend one off if it crashed the fence. And it would do nothing against raccoons nor the @#$%^&* woodchucks that are undermining everything.


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> This was a hard thread to catch up on but I truly hope Merlin gets his perfect home and your life can get back to being less of a challenge.


That would be nice but he was part of the solution to making my life less of a challenge.


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## NH homesteader

If it was spring I would send my husband out to work on the  fencing today lol!


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## CntryBoy777

I wouldn't give up on the dog "Pursuit", but would search out the breeds to find a better "Fit" for your situation. This one didn't quite work out for ya, but has made ya Wiser of what to be concerned with so a "Perfect" fit can be more easily found. Maybe a 90-120lb dog could do the job and be less vocal, or at least not a disturbingly loud Bark. There are many out there to choose from, so don't give up on it totally.


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## NH homesteader

But on the other hand  there are many ways to deter predators other than  dogs. And if the primary deterrent of predators is barking,  any other dog may not be a good fit. Good fences,  electricity,  locking them in the barn...  Will all work.


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## purplequeenvt

Bruce said:


> I thought about you but know you don't have proper fencing. Really too bad since you are close. I think @Mike CHS needs a pair of dogs and since he already has Maisy, he needs a male  At least he has a more reasonable number of livestock than I do for dogs to guard.
> 
> No llamas. No value there, it could as easily be prey for coyotes as fend one off if it crashed the fence. And it would do nothing against raccoons nor the @#$%^&* woodchucks that are undermining everything.



Actually, a llama is not a bad idea. Most are excellent guards against coyotes. I had llamas for years before the dogs. I switched to dogs as my llamas got older and the predator load changed due to a move. 

The biggest plus would be that they are camelids, just like the alpacas. Same feed, same health care.


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## Beekissed

Basenji, Bruce....they don't bark, supposed to be excellent homestead dogs.  

https://www.basenji.org/joomla/inde...t&view=category&layout=blog&id=109&Itemid=345


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## frustratedearthmother

I'm not trying to be disagreeable but I'm speaking from personal experience here:

About a million years ago I had a couple of basenji's before we moved to our farm.  They were beautiful dogs and nice enough in the yard, but found out the negative side when we moved to our farm.

They have an extremely HIGH prey drive and did NOT work out on my place.  I kept them in the fenced back yard and it worked for a couple of months until somehow or another they got into the barnyard area.  I had a 4 x 8 raised cage with hardware cloth bottom that I was raising chicks in.  The dogs got into that area and under the cage and literally (and this is a graphic explanation) pulled the legs off of the chicks from underneath the cage.  They also killed about 30 of my grown fowl at the same time.  Very efficient little killing machines.  I loved the breed - but couldn't keep them.


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## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear that it's not working out


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## Bruce

Beekissed said:


> Basenji, Bruce....they don't bark, supposed to be excellent homestead dogs.
> 
> https://www.basenji.org/joomla/inde...t&view=category&layout=blog&id=109&Itemid=345


Don't know about that Bee. @frustratedearthmother's experience plus





and (from your link)

"Although some are almost totally silent, Basenjis possess vocal chords and do have a voice. They have a growl worthy of a dog twice their size; they have a threatening wild-animal snarl, and they have a scream of terror. Some will talk with their masters and with one another in voices like those of Siamese cats. Others are yodelers, with a range comparable to that of a coloratura, and will even perform on command!

Then, there is a call heard generally at night, apparently a pack-call. It is an eerie sound, more reminiscent of a bird than an animal. And, there is the crow, delightfully like a young rooster's initial attempt. The Basenji crows when he greets human friends, when he's surprised, when he's amused, when he's achieved a triumph such as charging into a room forbidden to him, or when he is pleased with the way things in general are going. On such occasions he is at his irresistible best."

Sounds worse than a GP that only makes noise when it perceives a threat.


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## NH homesteader

Wow we just had a  lot  of fun watching a video about this breed.  They're lion hunters! I think I'll pass on having one on my farm.  But...  If I didn't have livestock I would want one!


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## frustratedearthmother

They truly are a unique breed.  Mine "yodeled" when they were happy!  My females were sweet and loving, but the male!  Very dominant and would NOT hesitate to challenge you.  I had another very large dog at the time that had wandered up to the farm and decided to live with us.  He finally had enough of the male basenji challenging me and simply stepped between us one day and told him in no uncertain terms not to mess with  his "mama" (me)!  Male basenji (Gizmo) never challenged me again.  It made life a whole lot easier after that, lol!

They are considered a hunting breed and are used heavily for that purpose in their native Africa.  I can attest to the fact that these little guys show NO fear and like I said earlier - very efficient little killing machines. Besides chickens - there wasn't a rabbit safe within miles of them. 

I could never convince them that they'd done anything wrong.  When they would kill a chicken, or anything else, they would come to me expecting praise and adoration.  I couldn't really fault them - they were only doing what they'd been bred to do.

I still love the breed - but in my opinion they are best kept away from any other little critter.


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## CntryBoy777

Don't discount the Rhodesian Ridgeback they are very versatile and will defend any people or animals that are considered in their Family. They are not very vocal and low maintenance. With this phone I don't know how to post a link to info, so be sure to check them out. Really nice dogs @Ferguson K  has one so she could add more to this I'm sure.


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## CntryBoy777

Sorry, but forgot to add that there is a breeder in Ky that uses them on their 40acres farm as working dogs. I found it on google the guys last name is Phillippe, I think. It is something like Phillippe Pharm, some really nice looking dogs.


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## Southern by choice

I agree with @frustratedearthmother  the Basenji has strong prey drive. They are good at ferreting out just about anything but adding that to poultry doesn't make a great  mixx. Second they are too small to be utilized as a farmdog imo. 
The Rhodesian Ridgeback is a great dog however they are NOT for a beginner and they are a powerful strong independent dog. Very few can handle a true Rhodesian.

The issue at hand is guardian - any true LGD will bark plain and simple. 
Farmdogs are great but cannot do what a guardian can and if the dog is left out you are still dealing with barking.


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## OneFineAcre

frustratedearthmother said:


> I'm not trying to be disagreeable but I'm speaking from personal experience here:
> 
> About a million years ago I had a couple of basenji's before we moved to our farm.  They were beautiful dogs and nice enough in the yard, but found out the negative side when we moved to our farm.
> 
> They have an extremely HIGH prey drive and did NOT work out on my place.  I kept them in the fenced back yard and it worked for a couple of months until somehow or another they got into the barnyard area.  I had a 4 x 8 raised cage with hardware cloth bottom that I was raising chicks in.  The dogs got into that area and under the cage and literally (and this is a graphic explanation) pulled the legs off of the chicks from underneath the cage.  They also killed about 30 of my grown fowl at the same time.  Very efficient little killing machines.  I loved the breed - but couldn't keep them.


x 2
Basenji's are hunting dogs
A very intense breed of hunting dog.


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## OneFineAcre

Sorry about Merlin.


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## Goat Whisperer

I agree.

From what I gather from Bruce's posts, it's NOT the dog.
And it isn't. This is just one of those situations where things aren't meshing the way it was intended  The reality is that ALL other "farm dogs" WILL bark- causing the same problem. Not trying to speak for anyone here, but I don't see how getting another dog would be any different. They hear something or see a threat- they bark.

I know this is hard for @Bruce, fortunately he is considered "lucky" that he has someone will to take the dog back. If he does get another dog and this dog barks (and it will) what happens? What if this breeder isn't willing to take the dog back? Does the dog end up in a shelter?  Just things to consider.


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## babsbag

My LGDs bark some nights and some nights they don't. But if there is a threat they bark, that is their job and their only way of persuading the predator to leave. I had one that barked at the moon, the sun, the wind, the leaves, the stars...you get the picture. The ones I have now only bark when needed but that can be minutes or hours depending on the what is out there.  My oldest female barks the least, and when she barks I really listen, but again, I have heard her bark for a good 30 minutes.  My neighbors hated my dogs, but the dogs have been moved off of that fence line and the neighbors are selling their home. Hope the new neighbors like goats and dogs.


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## Bruce

Goat Whisperer said:


> I agree.
> 
> From what I gather from Bruce's posts, it's NOT the dog.
> And it isn't. This is just one of those situations where things aren't meshing the way it was intended  The reality is that ALL other "farm dogs" WILL bark- causing the same problem. Not trying to speak for anyone here, but I don't see how getting another dog would be any different. They hear something or see a threat- they bark.
> 
> I know this is hard for @Bruce, fortunately he is considered "lucky" that he has someone will to take the dog back. If he does get another dog and this dog barks (and it will) what happens? What if this breeder isn't willing to take the dog back? Does the dog end up in a shelter?  Just things to consider.


I think you hit it exactly right @Goat Whisperer. ANY dog (OK, not my neighbor's Spaniel across the street but he is one in 100 million) will bark and in my experience most will bark at a lot more things than Merlin. Honestly I don't remember him EVER barking unless he was looking in a specific direction while barking. If he was barking at a dead run, he was headed to some part of the fence line, again looking in a specific direction. The people we got the alpacas from have a GP and a herding dog (neigher actual working dogs). They both go nuts and bark their heads off if someone walks down the road past their house. Any time of day and even if the owners are outside. I truly do believe that Merlin was the dog for the job here. Mind you, like @Latestarter's Mel, I don't think he would be even slightly unhappy hanging out on the couch during the day with his people. 

I took Merlin for a walk into the woods this morning. Smart as he is, he didn't figure out the part where I can't walk through the woods as fast as he can, nor can I go under branches that are 3' off the ground. Lots of rabbit and deer tracks in the woods. Fox tracks there and in the field on the way to the woods. There was a track that looked canine but larger than a fox, don't know if it was a coyote or if someone's dog was out unattended. Just inside the treeline at the north end of the west field - raccoon tracks. I had hoped the one that did in 2 chickens this summer ("rehomed") was a drop off but now not only do I need to worry about foxes, I again have to worry about a coon.


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## frustratedearthmother

So very sorry that Merlin didn't work out for you.


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## Mike CHS

One racoon can be a pain but the chances are if there is one around there is more than one.


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## Bruce

And isn't that a comforting thought. Not sure what brought the one up behind the house last summer. I figured some jackass illegally "rehomed it" to the country since we had never seen one before. We found a hen that we thought was gone for good at 3 AM one day. Turns out she had gone broody (first time in 4 years) and chose to do it in the plants right next to the little barn instead of in a nest box like the rest of the broody girls. She screamed bloody murder when it came for her. When we got outside the coon was up the nearby pine tree.


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## NH homesteader

I've never seen a racoon  around here. We had a fisher take out a chicken and multiple ducks last year.  I saw it in the yard at 9am. There was definitely something wrong with it being out during the day.


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## Bruce

True, they are presumably out hunting mostly near dawn and dusk. I have never (knock on wood) seen one.


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## Beekissed

I must have been really blessed in my dog life, as most of my dogs have not been excessive barkers...most were extremely quiet.  The only one I had here that did bark excessively I didn't have for very long...he was rehomed to the kind of place he was used to, an indoors home...no amount of training could help him adjust, he was already 4 yrs old and set in his ways.  Big dog, afraid of the dark as he had never been outdoors at night in his whole life, so he barked at everything.  

Ben has taken his cue from Jake and most of our nights are VERY silent, no barking at all.  Even when there is barking, it's a short cycle and doesn't go on and on.  Two times Ben has settled into a rhythmic bark that I considered excessive and stopped immediately when told to do so.  Since then he's not repeated that kind of bark cycle.   No barking in the day except, again, a few short woofs at a passing deer but nothing above a three woof, then ended.  I just don't tolerate it, so it doesn't happen.  Jake never barks in the day. 

Jake has always been really silent.  The older GP/Lab mix female I had had a tendency to WANT to bark frequently at times, but also would shut up when told to do so and finally, she learned what I considered barkable and became pretty quiet as well.  the dog I had before those two was also silent most of the time.   

I don't agree with the thought that farm dogs cannot do what LGDs can do...when all you need them to do is guard livestock of some kind on small acreage, they do it very well.  The goal, I believe, is to ward off predators...if that is done, then they can do what a LGD can do in that kind of setting.  In some settings, no, they won't live and work only with the flock, but Bruce's situation doesn't call for dogs working large acreage and guarding large herds. 

From my experience, in regards to barking in a small acreage setting, you get what you will settle for.  They CAN be trained to keep the barking to what is only necessary.  If they cannot, there are dogs who can.   

Large acreage and large flocks, I'd venture to say there are more predators wanting what is being guarded, a larger area to cover, so more need for barking.


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## Goat Whisperer

Beekissed said:


> They CAN be trained to keep the barking to what is only necessary. If they cannot, there are dogs who can.


Based on the posts, I don't think Merlin is an incessant barker. It sounds like he barked when there was a need. If @Bruce 's wife cannot tolerate that, it doesn't matter how much training is put into the dog. The dog will still bark when there is a need.


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## Southern by choice

Beekissed said:


> I must have been really blessed in my dog life, as most of my dogs have not been excessive barkers...most were extremely quiet.  The only one I had here that did bark excessively I didn't have for very long...he was rehomed to the kind of place he was used to, an indoors home...no amount of training could help him adjust, he was already 4 yrs old and set in his ways.  Big dog, afraid of the dark as he had never been outdoors at night in his whole life, so he barked at everything.
> 
> Ben has taken his cue from Jake and most of our nights are VERY silent, no barking at all.  Even when there is barking, it's a short cycle and doesn't go on and on.  Two times Ben has settled into a rhythmic bark that I considered excessive and stopped immediately when told to do so.  Since then he's not repeated that kind of bark cycle.   No barking in the day except, again, a few short woofs at a passing deer but nothing above a three woof, then ended.  I just don't tolerate it, so it doesn't happen.  Jake never barks in the day.
> 
> Jake has always been really silent.  The older GP/Lab mix female I had had a tendency to WANT to bark frequently at times, but also would shut up when told to do so and finally, she learned what I considered barkable and became pretty quiet as well.  the dog I had before those two was also silent most of the time.
> 
> I don't agree with the thought that farm dogs cannot do what LGDs can do...when all you need them to do is guard livestock of some kind on small acreage, they do it very well.  The goal, I believe, is to ward off predators...if that is done, then they can do what a LGD can do in that kind of setting.  In some settings, no, they won't live and work only with the flock, but Bruce's situation doesn't call for dogs working large acreage and guarding large herds.
> 
> From my experience, in regards to barking in a small acreage setting, you get what you will settle for.  They CAN be trained to keep the barking to what is only necessary.  If they cannot, there are dogs who can.
> 
> Large acreage and large flocks, I'd venture to say there are more predators wanting what is being guarded, a larger area to cover, so more need for barking.


Farm dogs can do what farmdogs do but you are wrong they are not LGD's, LGD's do what LGD's do. Some LGD's that cannot cut it as LGD's can be farmdogs. A great farmdog is a very valuable animal.
Not all environments require a LGD, I agree. Many settings do not require a LGD and a farmdog would be adequate. But predators to include numbers and type are also considered. 
I have worked with and trained far too many dogs and breeds and your statement simply is not true in regard to barking.  Yes you can train dogs to not nonsense bark but at the same time humans cannot see or hear as the dogs do and you have no idea what is out there that is setting a dog off. Currently we have a fox right on the line of our two fields. Guess when it likes to be out. YEP about the middle of the night. The dogs ARE going to bark and they will continue to bark as long as it is there. They should, that is why I have them. 
Acreage has nothing to do with it, it is predator load.  Over time as threats reduce by the presence of the dogs there is far less issue. After the puberty phase in the dogs and they learn an acorn dropping isn't an issue most LGD's are not constant barkers. When they bark it is because something is there and it is required.


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## Beekissed

> I have worked with and trained far too many dogs and breeds and your statement simply is not true in regard to barking.



My experience has been different, so I'll respectfully maintain that a dog CAN be trained to not bark at every little thing.  I've done it.  It happens on my land.  It's true enough here where I live.  I've had LGD breeds and I've had farm dogs and they all do the same thing....they both keep the predators away and sometimes kill them.  

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.


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## Bruce

I got up at 3 AM today. Merlin was barking. A lot, to the point it sounded like he was getting hoarse. I went out, he was in the south area and the alpacas were out by the solar arrays, covered with snow. Merlin came to me, I had my flashlight out to try and light up the field toward the woods some to "suggest" to whatever was out there that it wanted to be somewhere else. He wasn't barking nearly as much, I think I was the "extra" dog that gave him a break. The flashlight only projects about 150' and that is 'light' not "I can see what is out at 150' light". 

I could see Merlin's tracks around the entire perimeter of the fence line. Not surprising because from the bedroom I can tell where he is both by volume and direction and when I was in the bedroom he was clearly not staying in one location. If he is in the NW corner, the big barn blocks the sound some making him sound farther away than he is. If he is in the barnyard on the barn side of the pond, the sound comes straight up between the barns to the bedroom and he sounds much closer than he is relative to the actual difference in distance to the NW corner. If he is in the SW corner, he sounds closer than when he is in the NW corner even though he is farther away.

At one point Merlin was south and I was behind the solar panels (less snow falling on me!) and I scanned my flashlight north through the barnyard and barely beyond. I saw what I thought was a pair of red dots beyond the north fence. Of course the light was reflecting off the falling snow making anything in the distance difficult to make out. This was at the limit the light projected so I walked through the barnyard north. The red dots stayed put, I start thinking maybe I'm nuts because wouldn't an animal leave if a light was shining in its eyes?? Maybe not, we all know the phrase "deer in the headlights stare". I got to the old fence (about 5' from the new fence) and very clearly sitting on a rock not more than 75' from me was a fox. Looking right at me and my light. It didn't move for several minutes then walked off east. Merlin never saw that.

I may be wrong but I think this was a case where I was under dogged even for the small area I have. It is hard to defend something, even vocally, when you are surrounded. Can't be at both ends of the area at the same time. So while I probably needed another dog, we know that wouldn't work out well. 2 dogs barking at night, even if never at the same time, wouldn't improve the situation with my wife 

@Goat Whisperer is right and I will reiterate. I don't think Merlin barks to bark, doesn't bark at falling leaves, other dogs, people. RARELY barks during the day. We have had nights where he barked a lot and nights where I heard nothing all night long. The fact that I saw a single fox out, in the falling snow, suggests there was a lot more out in weather when I would have thought the critters would be hunkered down. Of course I thought the alpacas would be as well since on colder nights (it was just about freezing last night) they have been inside the barn even though there was no snow falling. There is a lot more activity out there in the dark than I know. But Merlin knows. The night I was out with him and heard the 3 coyote packs, he last barked around 1:15 AM, spent the rest of the night sleeping in the barn opposite the chicken coop. He had been there at 1 AM as well but shot out the alpacas' door triggered by something I didn't hear.

I am going to create a poll regarding seeing light reflected off animal's eyes. Not quite sure where to put it though. Perhaps a mod like @Latestarter can make a suggestion.


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## CntryBoy777

I know none here has been a witness to my very poor attitude, because I quit posting before it was shown. However, I do owe @Bruce @Southern by choice and @Goat Whisperer a very sincere Apology for my meager attempts to bring a solution to the problem at hand. In my attempts to suggest a solution, I was not "Seeing or Realizing" the real issue and was just inflaming it, merely by changing the voice of the irritating Barks. If another dog was introduced, it would still Bark, and if it didn't, then the desired result would not be realized. Also, a lesser animal that wouldn't be disruptive to the predators, possibly would be destructive to the intended animals to be protected. I really am sorry for my lack of absorbing the real "Issue" and the unwitnessed immaturity on my part. I do hope you all can forgive me for that and I will certainly strive to be more alert to the problem being confronted by the one "Posting" and not inflaming it.


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## Southern by choice

Southern by choice said:


> Yes you can train dogs to not nonsense bark but at the same time humans cannot see or hear as the dogs do and you have no idea what is out there that is setting a dog off.





Beekissed said:


> My experience has been different, so I'll respectfully maintain that a dog CAN be trained to not bark at every little thing.  I've done it.  It happens on my land.  It's true enough here where I live.  I've had LGD breeds and I've had farm dogs and they all do the same thing....they both keep the predators away and sometimes kill them.
> 
> We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.


The point is you cannot see what they see, so if they are barking there is something there. I did not disagree with nonsense barking...  generally if a LGD is barking alot then the predator load is such that warrants it.


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## NH homesteader

@Southern by choice do you have information regarding farm dogs vs.  LGD'S? How their jobs differ,  management,  etc? I'm trying to think about my dog needs! 

Sorry not trying to Hijack!


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## farmerjan

I have very little experience with any type of LGD having only been exposed to a pair of marema's on a farm that I used to farm sit for when the owner went away.  He knew nothing except book learning and the dogs were acquired as puppy's and they got to where they killed the lambs and roamed and it was a disaster.  The owner has died, the sig other has health issues and does not live there, the "new farm manager" is a joke and the one dog stays penned or tied and the other stays within the fenced field.  I feel sorry for the dogs but am not in a position to do anything as they are not being "abused".  So that is my experience,  all not very promising... We considered a LGD with our sheep, but since we put them out to pasture it is not always convenient to see them daily so that wouldn't work.
  We have since used both donkeys, which hate coyotes, and LLamas.  Both have been VERY GOOD at keeping predators away.  Had one donkey that didn't like the little lambs but was fine with the yearling ram lambs.
Understand, we raise White Texas Dall sheep.  Look like bighorn type sheep.  Semi wild breed, the rams get to 200 lbs and have magnificent heads.  We raise them for their trophy heads and sell to hunting preserves.  Yes to be hunted.  So crucify us for it.  They are not pets, the rams have dislocated my 6'6"  son's shoulder and collarbones.  But we just like them.  The ewes are raised closer to home and handled more, but have several that are faster than deer and are very flighty overall.  All that said, they are still sheep and are subject to predators.  Coyotes and dogs running loose are the biggest problem, but lately we have had a bear being a pain and hopefully he will be disposed of by a hunter....
Both the donkeys and the llamas have done exceptional at keeping the coyotes away.  I watched a pair of female llamas of ours deal with a pack of 3 dogs one day.  The one female took the sheep up on the hill, the other stayed down near the road/fence and everytime the dogs would change direction she was there.  These dogs were accompanying a woman who was jogging and she made no effort to call them out of the field and I just happened to be going up the road to check on another pasture when I came upon this scene.  I jumped out of the truck with my .22 when she came up and said those are my dogs and I told her in no uncertain terms that if she didn't call the d***d dogs and get them right now they were dead.  She thought it was fascinating that the llamas were doing what they were doing.  Well so was I, inasmuch as they were doing their job, but REALLY......The one llama got in a good kick to one of the dogs, it came running out of the field howling like it was dying, the other 2 dogs came to her and the llama went up the hill to the other one and they stood and watched over the sheep and us down at the road.  The woman was very concerned about her poor dog and I told her that I would be reporting it to the dog warden and the county sheriff's office and that if I ever saw anything of those dogs again in the field, they were dead.
  We have the right to shoot any dog harassing livestock and it believe me if any of those 3 were even in the field they would be "harassing" the sheep. PERIOD end of story.  It was a very impressive display of their protecting...We have one llama in each field with the different groups of sheep and have not lost a lamb to predators in years.  The llamas don't make noise, won't keep your wife up at night, and you can shear them for their wool so are not completely useless.  They also eat what the sheep and alpacas do so don't need a separate feed.  Ours do not protect the chickens, but also do not chase them either.  We have to keep them penned and when they are out loose, they are subject to predators....mine get locked in at night, and I use small moveable "chicken tractor" type coops alot.  Don't have much trouble with anything digging underneath and since they get moved all the time, predators don't get "comfortable" with learning a way in so much.  A farm/family dog keeps that to a minimum anyway.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> I know none here has been a witness to my very poor attitude, because I quit posting before it was shown. However, I do owe @Bruce @Southern by choice and @Goat Whisperer a very sincere Apology for my meager attempts to bring a solution to the problem at hand. In my attempts to suggest a solution, I was not "Seeing or Realizing" the real issue and was just inflaming it, merely by changing the voice of the irritating Barks. If another dog was introduced, it would still Bark, and if it didn't, then the desired result would not be realized. Also, a lesser animal that wouldn't be disruptive to the predators, possibly would be destructive to the intended animals to be protected. I really am sorry for my lack of absorbing the real "Issue" and the unwitnessed immaturity on my part. I do hope you all can forgive me for that and I will certainly strive to be more alert to the problem being confronted by the one "Posting" and not inflaming it.




You have _*NOTHING*_ to apologize for. And if you don't take it back I'll again!  

I appreciate everyone's input. You never know when someone's thought, on the mark or off, might spark an idea in someone else. Plus, if none of the offered alternatives suit my needs, people following the discussion might learn something new or consider a different path to what they had in mind. 

For instance: My new south fence line is all cattle panels BECAUSE @farmerjan suggested using them to go around the tree and pile of huge rocks on the lot line. If I had done it with field fence I would have needed to plant 4 more 6" posts, each braced in 2 directions plus additional bracing on the SE and SW posts. I would still have needed 2 posts braced in 1 direction each even if I had used the panels only to go around the tree as she suggested to solve the immediate problem of having to brace posts even when the section of stretched field fence is short. Those 2 posts would have been dug into locations where I will buy lunch for everyone who has been participating in this discussion if there aren't a lot of "impossible to remove without heavy equipment" rocks. I'm 99% certain that the pile of rocks  around the tree came out of the ground when the road that runs up the south side of our property was built. Dumped somewhere convenient - just outside the roadbed and side drainage ditch.  And they had to dig that ditch which means every rock they pulled out was buried somewhere nearby.

In my opinion, nothing good comes from a single mind.


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## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> @Southern by choice do you have information regarding farm dogs vs.  LGD'S? How their jobs differ,  management,  etc? I'm trying to think about my dog needs!
> 
> Sorry not trying to Hijack!


@Southern by choice and I discussed this and my specific situation before I got Merlin. I don't mind if she wants to answer your question here or in a new thread in the LGD forum. I think the latter would be better though because others with the same question would be more likely find it.


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## NH homesteader

I'll go start a thread!


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## CntryBoy777

Since I don't like getting twice, I will. It is just in my nature to help others in a difficult situation, and was thinking of a bark that would be less loud and of a lower tone so it wasn't booming and disturbing to your wife. However, I wasn't really thinking about all barking. So, I thank you for being understanding. Though one big deterrant that ya can do is to carry a good vermin gun with ya and eliminate some, tho ya want to stay legal, and I certainly don't know Vt law on such.


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## Latestarter

Bruce said:


> I am going to create a poll regarding seeing light reflected off animal's eyes. Not quite sure where to put it though. Perhaps a mod like @Latestarter can make a suggestion.



I would personally recommend: https://www.backyardherds.com/forums/predators-and-pests.69/


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## Bruce

Merlin has been returned to @purplequeenvt and in better shape than when I got him only because we got all the burrs of the front half of him, don't look at his tail!

The 'lemonade' here (because we must find some) for PQV is that since he was placed with us even though it turned out to be only temporary and no fault on his part at all, any future potential owner has 2 sources of info about his character and ability to be a LGD. His time with us is chronicled in this thread so my impressions are all here in black and white.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Since I don't like getting twice, I will. It is just in my nature to help others in a difficult situation, and was thinking of a bark that would be less loud and of a lower tone so it wasn't booming and disturbing to your wife. However, I wasn't really thinking about all barking. So, I thank you for being understanding. Though one big deterrant that ya can do is to carry a good vermin gun with ya and eliminate some, tho ya want to stay legal, and I certainly don't know Vt law on such.


Thanks for being understanding about being slapped  I knew you would take it in the way I intended.

OK, here is another "Yeah but ..."
DD1 is what I term an emotional vegetarian. Not only can we not raise any animals for us or anyone else to eat, she has a problem with lethal removal of predators and pests even if they have killed one or more of our chickens. A vermin gun would likely make a WEE bit of noise don't you think?? Given her 24x7x365 migraine and resulting inability to have gainful employment, we can't say "if you don't like it, move".


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## Goat Whisperer

What about "get over it?" 
Not the migraine, the thought of shooting a predator? Not saying that to be snarky- but can that really manipulate your life? 
Of course I don't know the full story so it isn't my place to say  you can  me too…

Hope it all went smooth with the transition of Merlin. Darn shame you couldn't keep him  Had to have been hard to give him up 

@CntryBoy777 I agree with @Bruce 
No need to apologize  


@farmerjan you NEED to post some pics of those sheep   So cool!


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## CntryBoy777

Oh!...and nor would I wish for ya to do that. I wasn't aware of the situation with predators. I knew the others from your posts. Well, that sure hampers ya a bit for sure. I'll keep my other suggestions to myself, then....I hate putting my foot in my mouth...and certainly getting .


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## Bruce

@CntryBoy777 you are in with 99% of the people who have an opinion on how to deal with predators. SSS my friend but in this case it is SSSS. The first S is "Silently" and therein lies the problem.

I forgot to mention that Merlin didn't go back quite as he was received (beyond the burrs). I couldn't find Eau de toilette - sheep scent ANYWHERE so he just smelled like dog. 

@Goat Whisperer - yes, since she doesn't really have any options and has been living with this migraine for 9.5 years. She will be 24 in March.  @purplequeenvt will tell you that she appears perfectly "normal". That is the problem with invisible diseases like migraine. She has learned to live with a constant pain level well above what most would tolerate. Presenting a "normal face" one day often results in the next day being bedridden. She also gets episodic migraines on top of the permanent one. Only recently have the Drs found medication to reduce the frequency of the episodic ones, nothing has helped the permanent one.


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## CntryBoy777

If she likes or can eat almonds, get some whole natural almonds...not roasted or salted....if nothing else has worked ya might as well try....Have eat a handful 3 times a day. There are natural enzymes in them that work in the brain, and is a natural remedy for severe headaches....it has worked for others in my brother's family.
If it is "Silent" that ya are looking for, then I would get a 22cal Air Rifle...if she is in the house and gun is in barn, she sure won't here the shot. They are just like a 22cal rifle, but just doesn't travel as far.


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## greybeard

Air rifle technology and their terminal ballistics have improved dramatically in the last few decades.
I would recommend something a bit bigger than .22 tho--especially if the varmint is bobcat or song dog.
.308 in a pcp rifle should be fine, and almost as silent as a .22 spring gun.


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## CntryBoy777

@greybeard that's a really nice one...for sure...but Big difference in price.... hit the right spot and anything will go down...they used an air 22 at the slaughter house to drop cows and pigs.


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## greybeard

The 'right spot' & at the right range.  The downrange ballistics degradation in air weapons is significant, especially in the springers.  No quite as bad in the pressurized rifles, but still very noticeable in velocity and energy loss.


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## Southern by choice

Ok- let me get this straight ... you can't shoot a predator because you daughter doesn't like it? 

No she doesn't need to move out but she can get over it.  This is your life too.  You know she can make those personal choices but she can't make them for you. 
LOL I am just shocked. I guess everyone parents differently. I can't imagine any of my kids telling me their parent what I can and cannot do.


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## Latestarter

Bruce said:


> Not only can we not raise any animals for us or anyone else to eat, she has a problem with lethal removal of predators and pests even if they have killed one or more of our chickens.





Bruce said:


> Given her 24x7x365 migraine and resulting inability to have gainful employment, we can't say "if you don't like it, move".





Goat Whisperer said:


> What about "get over it?"
> Not the migraine, the thought of shooting a predator? Not saying that to be snarky- but can that really manipulate your life?





Southern by choice said:


> LOL I am just shocked. I guess everyone parents differently. I can't imagine any of my kids telling me their parent what I can and cannot do.



I've kinda "pussy footed" around this in several previous posts. And I really don't mean to sound snarky either. And I've dealt with a similar/significant medical problem with my oldest daughter for a much longer period as she's 36 and epileptic, with uncontrolled, general/non specific seizures, that started when she was 4 years old. These have caused her to total a car (Thankfully she survived and didn't kill anyone), and be rushed to hospitals by ambulance on numerous occasions (some completely unnecessary when I wasn't there to prevail, with the associated costs that then had to be paid), & has caused her multiple dislocations with associated surgeries to repair damage. She can not drive, legally or morally. She lives alone with her small dog in a 1 BR apartment within walking distance of her job and shopping. She walks to/from her job or takes (pays for) a bus or Lyft/Uber if the weather is very bad. Sometimes co-workers have driven her home or shopping when weather was bad, but she hates to impose on anyone else for any reason (except me of course & I don't see that as an imposition). She has been hit in a cross walk by a "monster truck" while walking and had several other near misses. She's had seizures while walking and suffered the associated physical damage from concrete impact as well as the costs of ambulance rides and medical treatment for said injuries. But she's making it... and it's not easy. I know...

I dealt with a lot of guilt when I left Colorado, where she presently lives and works, for leaving her to herself and her own devices. I lived within an hour drive of her and was her support lifeline when she needed anything. I've supported her and protected her for 36 years. However, knowing that I will not always be here to protect and shelter her, she HAS to learn to deal with her condition and find a way to survive and make it on her own for when I'm gone. As far as support, I'm all she had/has, aside from her younger brother and he has his own family to deal with. I STILL provide her emotional support, but aside from that I'm no longer within reach when she has some difficulty to deal with.

Your daughter is now at a legal age where she can be diagnosed as 100% disabled and should be eligible for social security disability as well as 100% medical support through medicare/medicaid. So really, if it came right down to it, she being an adult, you absolutely could tell her "if you don't like it, move". As an adult, she has no right; legal, moral or otherwise, to rule your life or to impose her rules on you (or manipulate/guilt trip you!). As an adult, you have the right, legal, moral, and otherwise, to live your life in a manner that provides you happiness and freedom. You "allow" her to rule your existence, it is not helping her medically in any way. And really, she should be thankful that you ARE a caring/supportive parent (who is going above and beyond to live by/for her and her desires/wishes/demands). She's most welcome to make her own lifestyle decisions, but she has no right to make yours. By living the life she wants you to live, are you really helping her? Are you helping her prepare for a future without you there?  This one issue (I now know/see) was a contributor to several failed relationships for me (ones after her mother).

I'm sorry and in no way condemn you for doing what you're doing as life is all about choices. You choose to do what you do and choose to accept your daughter's demands on you. I've never been "tactful" and have been told that I don't know tact, only a-tack... I'm also not politically correct. I also often say things as I see them and have to accept consequences because of it. Again I apologize and will no longer post on this subject (publicly or privately) unless specifically called upon to do so. In the end it's none of my business anyway, but it (your situation) has been brought up publicly by you on numerous occasions and so my above post. I mean you no hurt/harm. I'm really sorry that you have to deal with that life situation... a sick/dependent "child" (adult!)... It's not easy or simple... I know/understand.


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## Bruce

1: SSDI doesn't recognize migraine as a disability. They probably figure if you can't see it, can't test for it, too easy to fake and get benefits you don't deserve or something.
2: There are others who also hold sway


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## NH homesteader

My aunt is on disability for chronic migraines.  Has been for 10+ years.  Maybe her doc is fudging paperwork...  Don't know. 

I'm not going to pile on the comments here other than to say I've been biting my tongue for a while and I also wouldn't change how I live my life because of my child not liking my choices.  But to each his/her own.


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## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> My aunt is on disability for chronic migraines.  Has been for 10+ years.  Maybe her doc is fudging paperwork...  Don't know.
> 
> I'm not going to pile on the comments here other than to say I've been biting my tongue for a while and I also wouldn't change how I live my life because of my child not liking my choices.  But to each his/her own.


Certainly possible. It was the leading headache doctor in Vermont who told us SSDI didn't recognize migraines and I have to believe he would know. Given her history (she's been seeing him for 5 years) I ASSUME he would provide the necessary 'proof' if it were legitimately possible to get her enrolled.


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## NH homesteader

That's interesting.  I'll have to see how she managed it. I doubt it's a VT or NH specific thing.


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## Bruce

You might not want to ask  and no it isn't a state thing, it is a federal government thing. 

It is possible I guess:
http://www.disability-benefits-help.org/disabling-conditions/chronic-migraines

Not sure how someone who can no longer do the work they did (or other "substantial Gainful Activity)  subsequent to the disabling migraines compares to someone who has never worked.


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## NH homesteader

True,  she did work most of her life. But people are on disability all the time who have never worked.  I don't know it would be nice if she could get some help.  How common are migraines like hers?


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## Southern by choice

I know when our daughter was born and long term NICU hospiralized we were told we should get SSI because in her condition she could not work. After taking her home the following years same thing. We chose not to receive these "benefits" as we thought it ridiculous. A) Babies can't work anyway nor toddlers B) There are many who NEED SSI - in good conscience we felt it would be like stealing from the taxpayers. We are responsible for our child no one else. 
So our daughter was eligible although she had never worked. Not sure how this is now but my goodness the system is so messed up. People that need the help don't get it and there are so many working (under the table) and getting it. 

Your daughter's situation is far different from ours as she is lifelong disabled. Have you considered a lawyer?


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## CntryBoy777

Well I was turned down several times, and had to get a Lawyer for SSI to even review the case. Most lawyers here work on a percentage of the 'Backpay', which I didn't get, so the lawyer was no cost to me. It may be well worth your while to "Jump thru the Hoops" to find out. I would, but it could take a year or so to get it....it is the Feds so they don't get in any hurry at all.


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## Latestarter

a good SSDI lawyer would have been my next recommendation. You have to fight for it sometimes.


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## Bruce

Yeah and a 'good' one can get SSDI for people that do not deserve it. My older sister's soon to be ex is an example. Somehow he got SSDI for something like a 15% disability and there is NOTHING that would keep him from doing any number of high paying jobs. I asked my sister how that happened. The answer was 'he got a lawyer'.

On the other hand, a good friend of ours had a stroke 2 years ago at the age of 57. STILL can't find the right words to say and will give directions while driving saying "turn left, but point right". If he is driving he can get where he is going because he knows what he means. It's like the "search the dictionary for a word to describe this thought" link is broken. Turned down for SSDI (even short term when few people could understand what he was trying to convey and then only with almost a game of 20 questions to figure it out), because he can do some kind of work. Now instead of being a well paid electrical engineer as he was for 30 years, he is cleaning rooms in a retirement home trying hard not to lose HIS home. But he isn't disabled according to the government even though he was totally unemployable for at least a year. 

Given DD1 has no 'back pay' to recover I doubt a lawyer would take the case other than for way too much an hour in *hopes* s/he can push it through.


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## CntryBoy777

Well it certainly wouldn't hurt to check into it tho. The consultation is Free and ya can't be charged til ya sign the "Dotted Line".
This is not a "Racist Comment", but just the Facts of what has been faced personally by me.
I have been turned down for any assistance by every gov't agency my whole life, mainly because I am a "White Male", what hasn't been turned down for that reason, is because I only have 1 kidney. When I had the 1st attack in '05, I was out of work, no insurance, married with a house on 3acres and a 16yr old in the house. I went to get some assistance with foodstamps, medicaid, or anything else I could to survive. The medical bills alone were over $125,000 I was turned down because I was a "White Male", but Joyce and the youngst daughter qualified for Medicaid. So, I lost Everything. That's why I am here, and I decided to Fight for the $$$ that I'd paid since I was 18yrs old. It was worth the Fight, and I have plenty of family members that have paid too; and, any of them would rather choose to support your daughter over the Trash that is "Stealing" it....someday soon it will be too Late....don't let it "Bite" your A$$....TRY


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## Latestarter

I believe as a child of parents who have paid in all their working lives, she would be entitled to full compensation based on your SS deposits. Any of her doctors would be able to present evidence that she's incapable of working at any job and more specifically anything involving a computer screen and since we're in the "digital age" where just about any job involves computer screens, I'd say that rules out about everything. She should be eligible back to her 21st birthday minimum or possibly her 18th. And you won't be there to help her forever, so starting now while you can would probably be best. just a thought...


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## Bruce

Pictures of eggs that were frozen on 10/30/16. I used the last two today for pancakes. After mixing with the oil and milk, they seemed no different than at the same point with fresh. Took this picture today since I hadn't taken one of the six I used to make omelettes on Jan 1.




Thawed in the refrigerator in a bowl (it was in a ziplock), no "assistance" to speed thawing.


After mixing with a fork. There are some "globules" at first and is a bit thicker than fresh eggs. No globules today but I used a whisk, not a fork.
 

The front of the stove is a wee bit lower than the back so fresh eggs run toward the front and I have to use the spatula to keep them from getting too thin in the back or running into the grease gutter on the right side. These didn't, I had to spread them some after pouring them on with a measuring cup.


When asked, the 3 people eating them (including me) could tell no difference from the ones made with fresh eggs the week before.


Verdict: I will be freezing more eggs next fall. I have no frozen eggs left and only 8 fresh in the fridge dating back to the beginning of December. Going to have to squeak by with those until the girls start laying again. Unless they start soon, Sunday breakfast will be pancakes or waffles as they use fewer eggs per person.


----------



## CntryBoy777

How many dzs did ya start with?


----------



## greybeard

Well, regarding SS disability, the words 'should' and 'would' are debatable. The bar is set pretty high to discourage SS disability fraud, which according to GAO is in the billions of $ every year. This of course makes it more difficult for deserving people to be approved and receive benefits, but I suppose that is the price we pay for living in a somewhat dishonest society.
I don't think there is a nation anywhere in the world that doesn't have a govt program that isn't abused, our own certainly included. I've personally seen it abused in the Agent Orange program and  even more so in the PTSD aspect several times.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> How many dzs did ya start with?


I only froze 1 dozen for testing purposes. Haven't tried baking (actually, I don't bake, but DD1 does) with frozen eggs. Gets a bit 'messier' then since some recipes call for whites separately from yolks. You can freeze them separately of course. I THINK the whites would work out better since the yolks are the part that tends to get thick.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya still squeezing out Eggs up there?


----------



## Bruce

Me? Nope, never laid an egg in my life!!! But Eos is. She started on Jan 10th with a 60g followed by:
1/12 - 68
1/14 - 70
1/15 - 68
1/17 - 70

For your viewing pleasure, here are 2 pictures of DD1's nutball cat that I JUST took. I was going to take a picture of him in his "seal" position with one leg back like a flipper but he moved. But he got into another cute postion and as soon as I took that he changed position again:


----------



## CntryBoy777

Looks like he is "Dreaming" of being Super Catman...and he is Flying...
Seems Eos is giving ya some sizeable eggs there.


----------



## Bruce

He just needs a cape!!! Of course I suspect the loss of flesh and blood trying to get one on him would be similar to what would happen if you tried to scratch his belly.


----------



## Bruce

Two eggs today, first time since 11/26. Yuki (1.5 Y/O White  Rock, she also laid yesterday) and Eos (1.5 Y/O EE) today. Persephone (4.5 Y/O EE that has NEVER laid in winter past her pullet year) laid Wednesday. 

Today I put the double acting hinges on the alpacas' door to the outside world. Not only were they not impressed, they are afraid of the mostly closed door. They need to learn they can push on it and it will move because I have no dog to keep the coons, foxes and woodchucks from just meandering in that door.


----------



## CntryBoy777

You'll have to get a pocket of Treats and teach them, a few times going thru and they'll get the hang of it. That's great to hear on the chicken "Front" could be a "Sign" of things to come.


----------



## Bruce

I need to find out what these boys think of as treats. I know they love their alpaca pellets but alpacas are SUPPOSED to love apples and carrots. Um, nope. Eat right around them and leave them in the bin.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Just gotta keep trying to find one, there is something that they will get "Excited" for. All animals have something they Love, tho be careful cause when ya introduce it, there's no going Back. They'll be searching for it.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Doughnuts, cupcakes, fudge brownies, chocolate chips, whipped cream - dang I'm hungry!


----------



## NH homesteader

thanks FEM, I'm trying to cut back on sugar


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Me too, lol!  But, I can dream....sigh!


----------



## Mike CHS

Animal Crackers work for our sheep (or at least some of them) but they won't touch apples or anything else we have tried.


----------



## NH homesteader

Half of ny goats love apples and carrots, the others see unimpressed. They love BOSS. They get very little grain so they think that's a treat!


----------



## CntryBoy777

@luvmypets should know some Alpaca treats, she has some.


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## Latestarter

Thanks FEM... you just reminded me that I have a box of fudge brownie mix and 1/2 a bag of chopped walnuts up in the cupboard... Now I'll have to run out to the store and get some vanilla ice cream to put on them when they come out of the oven all warm and chocolaty & gooey and such <wicked grin>


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> when they come out of the oven all warm and chocolaty & gooey and such <wicked grin>



Not nice....    But enjoy!


----------



## babsbag

@Latestarter , that was MEAN. 

@Bruce, about the chickens and winter. I was told that if you up the protein in the winter you will get more eggs and I do believe that they are correct. I just went back to game bird feed and after one bag my girls are starting to lay again.  But the days are getting longer too, and molt is over so maybe just a coincidence.


----------



## farmerjan

If  you increase the light to 12 hours a day they will lay.  What I have done when I had free range hens was have a light on a timer that came on at 4 am and went off at 8 am.  That way they "got up earlier, and would eat and drink some before I would let them out loose.  But I did not put the light on in the evenings so they would go to roost as it started to get dusk then dark.  It is too much of a drastic change to go from light to instant dark in the evenings.  They wouldn't be on the roosts and then would fly around and get hurt trying to go up on the roost. 
The extra protein will help a little bit, but it is day length that is the big deciding factor.
One other thing I do with the purebred show birds is feed a hot mash in the morning, a little soupy but not too much, like thick cake batter, and they get both the warmth first thing in the morning and extra water,  they might not be drinking as much as needed.  Don't make a huge amount of hot mash, you want them to clean it up.  If they leave some, you can just add hot water the next day but don't keep it more than 2 days or it will go sour and they won't like it.  Sour is different from fermenting.
Giving them some milk will also sometimes help some to increase laying.
When we were getting real cold temps, I would dump the waterers in the evenings so I didn't have to deal with frozen blocks in the morning and they don't drink at night while on the roost anyway.  So the hot mash was eaten fairly quickly and then they would go get a drink of warm water on top of that.  Increase water consumption....


----------



## babsbag

Just last week my husband put another light up for me so I can see when I do chores. It is in the coop and is on maybe 2 hours a day, but it is at night. It is connected to all my outside path and barn lights so I can't turn it off individually. I wonder if that has helped with the eggs too. Didn't think about that until now. With those lights on there is about 12 hours of light.


----------



## Bruce

frustratedearthmother said:


> Doughnuts, cupcakes, fudge brownies, chocolate chips, whipped cream - dang I'm hungry!


I believe we were talking about ALPACA treats  I guess I'll keep working on this list but I am NOT going to buy them expensive things like raspberries and blackberries!!! Maybe I'll try squash, have plenty of Red Kuri and small butternuts in the basement. I wonder if they would want it in small cubes or shredded or .... And would they care if it was peeled or would they eat the peel. That goes into the compost bin.
http://www.gentlespiritllamas.com/html/tips/treats.htm

I know about light and laying but I choose not to force my girls given they will live out their natural (assuming not unhealthy) lives here. Might as well not wear out the egg laying machine. And it is kinda weird. I've heard they need 14 hours but in the past my girls have started back up in late Feb or early March well before there was 12 hours of natural. I held them at 12 hours last fall through winter thinking it might keep the older girls laying a bit longer in the fall. No good. But I didn't want to screw up the pullets so left them at 12 all winter. The older girls started laying again as they had before.


----------



## Bruce

0 eggs today, I guess one of the two yesterday came early


----------



## CntryBoy777

She was taking advantage of the Warmer day...pushed it out Early for ya.


----------



## NH homesteader

Ha I got 1 egg today. Another teeny tiny pullet egg!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Ahhhhh, gotta love those itty, bitty eggs!  While my grandkids were here over Christmas, they found a couple of tiny eggs.  I told my granddaughter they were fairy eggs.  Bless her heart - she believed me!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I can see that "Playing Out" over the yrs into some good Laughs and Memories.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

It truly could!  She's such a trusting little soul.  I could work this one for awhile, lol!


----------



## purplequeenvt

How old are your alpacas? I found with my llamas that they wouldn't eat fruits or veggies until they were around 4 or 5 years old. A few were older the that. 

You could try corn chips. I had a llama that loved chips dipped in that nasty fake yellow cheese-like product. I found out by accident one time when I had him at an event and he reached over the fence and helped himself to my nachos. He looked so happy with the yellow cheese smeared all over his face! When he got sick (he was 16+) and we were going to put him down, I sat out in the field on his last day, opened a bag of chips and a jar of nachos cheese and we had a little picnic.


----------



## Bruce

The boys are 6 or 7 I believe. I can try corn chips next but no way that "processed cheese food product" stuff will be on them (or anywhere on the property  ). We had asparagus last night, snapped off the bottoms. My Alpacas don't like asparagus either.

Pullet eggs aren't teeny tiny. Fart eggs are! We got one a few weeks ago. Weighed 6 grams.
Got 2 eggs today, Eos and Yuki.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Bruce said:


> Pullet eggs aren't teeny tiny. Fart eggs are



True dat - we call them fart eggs or wind eggs - but at least once I got by with calling them fairy eggs.

We got 3 or 4 of those eggs for a week or so.  Found 'em all over the ground - not even in the nest boxes.  Maybe they really were fairy eggs, lol!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Are the Boys doing any better with the door?


----------



## Bruce

I finished up the door 'framing' today. The hinge side 2x6 was parallel to the stud it was attached to but that made the door 'at rest' sit open to the inside about 4". Old barn, leaning west, nothing plumb, straight etc. So I pulled screws on the right side, levered it out shimmed and replaced the screws. Actually, replaced them with 6" Timberlocks, 4" screws didn't reach to do much good. And I added the "strike side" 2x6. Of course a double acting door doesn't actually 'strike' or it wouldn't work. I had to screw a 2x4 flat side to the wall to have something to screw the 2x6 to. The door is still held open with a bungee so the boys can come and go as they have before. They spent the entire day outside, even for their pellets - hand fed at the gate.

So to answer your question  Not yet.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya better watch out feeding the Boys by hand too much, they just might accept ya in the Herd, and realize ya ain't such a bad thing after all....


----------



## Bruce

That would be nice! Um, unless they get ticked off and decide they should spit at me. 

The hard thing about the door is what will happen if they go partway through then change their mind. The door will close as they back up and will trap their head/neck and cause a panic. Not sure how to make them understand that once they start, there is no going back without going all the way out and starting from the other side.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Maybe you will have to demonstrate the process for them


----------



## Bruce

I DID!!!!!!

Push the door and walk through. Turn around, push the door and walk through. I tried holding it open a distance with one hand while on the inside, container with pellets in the other. Laddie is very into the pellets. He put his head through the opening and pushed a little, I let go of the door. He then got scared and started to back out while the door closed on his neck. He really panicked. That was yesterday. Nasty snow and ice coming tonight and tomorrow, sure would be nice if that door was closed.

On the touching front, I was able to scratch his neck (at least I think there is a neck under all that hair) when giving them their pellets this morning. Have I mentioned that he really likes the pellets? He had his face stuffed in the container and managed to not shy away RIGHT as soon as I touched him. Of course that made Teddy nervous.

Zero eggs today.


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## CntryBoy777

Don't blame ya for staying inside more, and it sounds like ya got something working for ya with the Boys....Teddy will come around...just takes time. Those hens heard about the Noreaster coming and decided it wasn't very urgent, now if it Storms it may Scare a double Batch out of them..


----------



## Bruce

Both Eos and Yuki laid today 

This morning I got up and helped my wife chip the ice off her car windows ... in the rain, freezing rain. Sure was fun! At least it wasn't raining hard. First I spread some ashes from the wood stove bucket so we wouldn't be seeing the car from the wrong perspective.

Went down to the animals later like a few hours after it got light! By then the rain had changed to snow. The boys were at their end by the gate waiting for their pellets. So they were smart and spent the night inside right? Nope, they were covered with icicles and snow. I didn't have my camera because I had 2 containers of squash guts and the ash bucket (so I could make sure I got down to the barn on my feet). My alpacas don't like squash guts. 

I took these pictures at "closing time". The longer icicles had disappeared but they still had ice and snow on them. Not so cute now! Teddy is sporting a bizarrely flat dirt/snow/ice/burrs hat.


----------



## NH homesteader

Ah they're so cute!
It was nasty enough this morning that all of the animals were inside. The turkeys don't go inside for much. Not a lot of snow but a good amount of freezing rain.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Great Pics there Bruce!!....sorry ya had to Endure such conditions today, that "Mess" is just Awful!...mighty "Gentlemanly" on your part helping the wife with her Ice situation. 
I just bet those Boys have character, personality, and spirit that will be Fun to experience....
I was thinking while I was digging holes today about ya and if ya could teach them to "Pull" as a team, they could help ya with some of those Rocks...aren't they a pack animal? 
Ya'd have plenty of rock ya could try your hand at some stone masonry.


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## Bruce

Yep, I could build a few things with the rocks I pull out of everywhere. And the old foundation for the rebuilt north building of the house was added to the rock pile on the north side of the barn. Those would be fairly big and fairly flat on 2 sides.


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## Bruce

Not a whole lot happening here but a kitten decided to take up residence in the section of the barn next to the workshop. My guess is he is about 3 months old. DD1 (23 years old) named him Christofur. From the house, workshop is in the far right section. If you look at the 3rd picture you can see the cat in his cat bed. I made 3 of them for the indoor cats years ago but they have stopped using them.


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## CntryBoy777

There ya go Bruce! He is nice looking cat, I love his markings and sure hope he becomes your "Little Man".


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## CntryBoy777

Oh, since it is close to your workshop, it reminds me to tell ya that I ordered the pentacryl today. Probably about a wk or 2 away from cutting the tree...depending on weather.


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## Bruce

OK, I better order mine as well! I was putting together an order and started adding stuff for the shop like more blast gates. Seems woodcraft has the metal ones with a knob headed bolt to hold them in any position in 6", 5" and 2.5" but not 4"  Apparently the 4" have a "get the wrench" bolt though the single picture shows the other side of the gate. One of the reviewers said they got a thumb screw to replace the bolt. Oh well.

Just tried to order my stuff. 2 credit cards turned down, neither anywhere near their limit. In fact one has $0 on it.


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## Latestarter

That sucks Bruce... Hope you get it figured out why.


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## CntryBoy777

It is so rare that I do...used a debit...I probably broke the dang thing....


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## Mike CHS

Bruce - do you have a link to the type blast gate that you are looking for.  I have several from our last shop that I won't use here since I have enough room for both dust collectors to be hooked up directly.


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## Bruce

Hey Mike,
The 2 I have came from Acme Tools. If I had even 1/8 of a brain I would have ordered more when I got the replacement conveyor belt for the drum sander a few weeks ago 

http://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/jet-dust-collector-blast-gate-jw1142

This is the similar one from Woodcraft, they show the opposite side of the gate so the bolt to lock it down isn't visible. 
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/4-aluminum-blast-gate?sku=85O07


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## Mike CHS

I won't have a chance to look today because I need to figure out where we put them but I think I have some like that.  I'll let you know soon.


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## Bruce

New barn kitten and the chickens






Carried the kitten down to the lower part of the barn today. I know he hasn't been there before, no footprints in the snow. I sat down in the doorway to the feed room holding him. He was a bit nervous (he isn't REAL sure he wants to be held anyway) but we sat and a few chickens got a bit closer to see what was going on. They got only about 5' away. Then he wiggled and went into the room behind me. A smallish cardboard box fell into it off the half wall so I got up to fetch that and put it elsewhere. While I was doing that the 10 hens in the run (2 were in the nests, good girls) panicked, I guess maybe he came out and they saw him. They all shot out the door and up to the house. He went the other way toward the alpaca end (they were outside). I saw him in their stall, then he came out and went into their alley to the outside. I figured he would turn around when he got to the door and all the snow outside but nope. He went through the door and the snow along the side of the barn, back to the top. 

Guess I don't need to think much about how he and the alpacas will deal with each other because I don't think he is planning to go back for a repeat visit any time soon.

5 eggs today (so far) including 1 each from Zorra (BA) and Persephone (EE) both 4.5 years old and never winter layers in the past. Really odd but not complaining! One from Niut (1.5 Y/O BA) who doesn't look like she is quite ready after her moult, she doesn't have her tail back yet. The others came from Mellori (BA) and Penelope (EE) both also 1.5 Y/O.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well that is certainly enough to "Dirty the Skillet"...
It probably won't take Mr Curiosity, Christofur, to get in the full swing of things. Cheetos dodges the goats, one of which Hates cats, to go chase squirrels in their pen. He has a few emergency "Escape" routes that he uses, but ya can't keep him out of it...no matter how much he is chased. ....tho, they tend to stay away from the bird pen, especially when the ducks are out.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah I expect he will get back down there on his own at some point. Hopefully when we have less snow and the chickens come out he and they will see each other from afar and eventually decide the other is not dangerous after all.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well he is still fairly young yet, too. He sure is a pretty little thing.


----------



## Bruce

Maybe the girls will think he is just another rabbit. They don't even notice them. I have to go find a picture, hang on.


----------



## Mike CHS

Those are some good pictures.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Oh, I'm sure once Christofur gets a bit more age on him, he'll be right along with the chickens....tho, I doubt the bunnies will be in the pics then.


----------



## NH homesteader

That's cute! We have rabbit prints everywhere on our property but they don't come too close, dogs and all.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> Those are some good pictures.


Thanks. I really like the second one. The rabbit looks like it thinks it is just one of the flock


----------



## NH homesteader

Hope your DW has an alright drive to work tomorrow. It's sketchy out there.


----------



## Bruce

Thanks. Yep it is. She's watching the state plows. They recently put up a web app so you can see exactly where they are. Her bigger concern is the road we live on, it is about 3/4 mile to the state road. Don't know when it will be plowed and that could be a problem. But there are a couple of people that go out before she does so even if it isn't plowed there should be some tracks to follow. I can blow a path up onto the road so she can get out. If no one is looking I can blow down the road to the north entrance of our parking area/circle/whatever you call it.


----------



## NH homesteader

Used to be around here that once bad storms hit, police wouldn't care if you dropped your plow on the roads to help yourself or someone else out. Those days are gone.


----------



## Mike CHS

I guess times have changed.  I lived in Michigan in the early 70's and did snow plowing as a side line work.  We got approved for gas even when there was shortages if we would drop our plows en-route to wherever we were going.


----------



## Bruce

Dang that sure makes sense to me!!! I don't know why but I HEAR it is the same in VT. NOT allowed to put your private plow down on a public road but you MUST have your yellow light flashing. Huh?? If you aren't plowing why do you need to have the light on? It isn't required any other time, only when you are going between plow job sites. 

I'm REAL sure that no private plow would drop the blade down unless it was really bad and the city and state plows can't keep up. It would cost them a ton of money in gas. But in the Valentine's Day storm some years back I bet most of them would have if it were legal. Claim "Good Samaritan"?? There were cars stuck everywhere for hours and hours and hours. Even the big guys can't deal with 27" in 12 hours, there just aren't enough of them.

I'm not talking about a plow truck here, I only have my garden tractor and snow blower. No flashing yellow light either. So of course I wouldn't go out on the road


----------



## NH homesteader

My husband used to plow. One storm was horrible, he was driving to the next place and a police cruiser was stuck in the snow. He ended up plowing and then towing him out. Wouldn't do that now, and that was less than 15 years ago. How things change...


----------



## Bruce

I bet the cop would give him a pass even today.


----------



## NH homesteader

Maybe... Depends on the cop.


----------



## Latestarter

I'm sure the cop would give him a pass... just as long as it was in the cop's best interest... Jaded? Maybe...


----------



## NH homesteader

We have some really good ones here. And some really awful ones.


----------



## farmerjan

Here in Va, the state contracts with private contractors to do the smaller roads, and alot of farmers even have contracts to plow with their tractors.  The state does not have near enough plows or manpower anymore to do it all.   Even with all that, there are several farmers that will plow out their own driveways to get the milk trucks in to pickup the milk, then many have plowed from their driveway to the "state road" where the state trucks plow so that the trucks can get in.  They don't get paid if they do it voluntarily, and they will only do it if it is milk pickup day, but it gets done.  We have often dropped the plow on our truck when going to a pasture that we have to feed at, and lots of times you will see farmers out with their tractors going to feed and stopping to pull someone out of a ditch, or giving them a hand to get "unstuck".  I am so glad that I live here in the "farming" area of Va.  Of course you have to deal with the "jerks" and we don't pull them out much since you never know when they will "sue" you for some damage or whatnot;  but the locals all help each other and the sheriff's dept and firemen etc.  

My son works for VDOT and had to go to VA Beach back about a month ago as they were supposed to get hit,  and they do not have the trucks or equipment to take care of it.  We only got about 4-6" here but they got about a foot.  Several headquarters sent like a truck each and they were there for 3 days plowing and clearing the snow.  Everyone was very nice he said...people helping and many of the VDOT workers there opened their homes to the guys and made meals and such even though the guys were housed in motels and all.  They worked 24 hours;  split crews were 12 hrs on 12 hours off; so the trucks were in constant use so it could get done quicker.


----------



## Bruce

Up at 5, fed the woodstove, ate some cereal dropped some dry food in the cats' dishes. Out at 5:30, shoveled down to wife's car and along the side so I could shove the snow off with the push broom. Cleared off the tractor/blower (*). Blew around the car and up on onto the road, then started to widen it. Plow came by going the "right" direction about 10 minutes before wife came out She said having the car and path to the road clear was the best Valentine's Day gift (if a day early). After she left I kept at it, cleared the rest of the parking area and around my car. Plow came by going the opposite way just when I finished  so I went out on the road  and cleared in front of the mailbox. CAREFULLY blew down toward the drive bay then CAREFULLY made a turning area so I could run parallel to the front of the barn. Went back up and ran down near the house toward the gate between the barns. Careful because if I go down too far it gets a wee bit steeper and the tractor WILL NOT BACK UP. Ran a path parallel to the front of the barn and OF COURSE GOT STUCK near the north end even though I THOUGHT I was being really careful. The tractor will HAPPILY slide downhill on a minimal side slope, the front wheels are useless other than to get stuck in the snow and act as a brake.  Then all attempts to improve the situation end up moving the tractor more down the hill. Had to manually haul it up sideways, turn the front wheels, haul up, turn the wheels, rinse repeat until I got it 180, facing back down the blown path. 

Shoveled the 10' from the blown path to the gate to the barns then the 50' down to the barn. Did animal chores and shoveled a path for the boys to their poop pile. They had already gone out to it but I figured they would prefer not to have to stomp through the deeper snow. 

Back up top I shoveled a path to the the bent where the barn cat chose to live. Went to the house to get hot water for his dish. Brought that back, cracked the ice out of the water dish and gave him water and food. 

Then I "fed" the tractor and went out to the solar panels to clean the snow off. Snow sticks to them even though they are tilted to 16 degrees but only about 1.5" to 2" on them. My GUESS as to what we had on the ground was 9" to 10". Always hard to tell since the wind moves it all over the place.

Back in the house at 8:30.

* I parked it by the house yesterday and covered it fearing I might not be able to get it up out of the barn if we got a ton of snow.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Sounds like a wonderful morning!  Woo hoo!

My morning was similar.  Got up at 5:30; put on t-shirt, shorts and sandals; fed the critters.  Went in and had another cup of coffee before work. 

Don't hate me!  

I'll be whining about the 105 temps and the 115 heat index in another week or so...


----------



## NH homesteader

I honestly have no clue how much snow we got. Maybe about the same as you. Not quite a foot I don't think.


----------



## Mike CHS

I thought about you this afternoon when I was cutting grass.


----------



## NH homesteader




----------



## Hens and Roos

Our snow is starting to melt we are around 44* today!  DH is considering tapping our maple trees given the temps we are suppose to get this week.


----------



## NH homesteader

Thanks for the reminder, I need to get our stuff out! We didn't tap last year because we had a January thaw and weren't ready by the time everyone started tapping. It's usually March by the time it starts running here.


----------



## Hens and Roos

NH homesteader said:


> Thanks for the reminder, I need to get our stuff out! We didn't tap last year because we had a January thaw and weren't ready by the time everyone started tapping. It's usually March by the time it starts running here.



this would be the earliest we have tapped trees! Usually it is around the start of March!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sounds like ya had good timing this morning Bruce. When we lived in Me, my Dad would get out and shovel and sweep the drive and walkway at our townhouse duplex. Mom would drive us to school and by the time she got back, the plow came thru and filled in up again....he'd get so Mad....

@NH homesteader , @Hens and Roos that is something I have never had...sugar maples don't grow here and I refuse to pay the price at the grocery store.


----------



## NH homesteader

What?? Never??


----------



## farmerjan

We have quite a few sugar maples here in Va.  Highland county, just west of here, will have their annual Maple Festival the 2nd and 3rd weekends in March.  Going on something like 55 years or so.  There are some taps out on trees but our weather has been so crazy, I am not sure that it will be a very good year.  I think the sugar water will turn to sap very early.  Oh well, we will go eat pancakes at the firehouses, and trout lunch and dinners and just enjoy it.  I'd like to live out there, much more rural, but there is basically no work and most commute 1-2 hours over the mountain to this area or to the Harrisonburg area, and I just don't want to drive it now.  My son could transfer in VDOT if there was an opening at their headquarters, but I don't think he wants to go that secluded anymore.  I always get a gallon of syrup every year.  I have done the syrup thing myself, but it is too much work for me when I have such a crazy schedule, and we will start our spring calving  schedule in a couple of weeks.  Too much to do.  I like to support them out there since there are so few other income opportunities.  It used to be one of the biggest sheep/wool producing counties in the state, but the coyote/predator problems have  made many people just give it up. Plus the lack of a market for wool.


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## CntryBoy777

Never....Joyce has, she grew up in Mi, but I never have. Something about E Tn is they get nowhere near the humidity we have here, nor heat either....not that it can't get hot, but it is at a higher elevation and that makes a world of difference.


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## NH homesteader

Wow. Maple syrup is just part of life here. In fact I made sure that sugar maples grow in TN, which they evidently do because I see a couple of places that do syrup. We eat a fair amount of it!


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## frustratedearthmother

Sounds good!  I think the only tree I could tap around here would be a pine tree and use that sticky sap for glue!


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## Hens and Roos

We have 4 Silver maple trees that we tap, DH and DS said it was coming out of the tap quicker then they could get it all set up.....guess we will see what we get!


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## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> What?? Never??



Maybe he is better off that way, once you've had the real stuff there is NO going back! 

I grew up in So. Cal on Log Cabin and Aunt Jemima. Thought that WAS maple syrup until I moved to Vermont. Now I won't even get something at a restaurant that "needs" syrup unless they have the real stuff  

Actually breakfast when on a trip is a bit difficult since I have my own chickens and know the difference between an egg from a happy chicken that eats what it wants and one that lives in a cage on a "has the nutrients they need" ration. Even though it is winter and there is nothing for them to forage (they are on their chicken feed and minimal stuff from the kitchen plus their daily BOSS and scratch) their yolks are still WAY darker than "egg factory" eggs. But I suck it up on the eggs, won't compromise on the syrup.

Snowing now, supposed to be another 9" between today and tomorrow.


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## NH homesteader

That is true. No use starting expensive food habits I suppose! Oh the egg thing is so true. Amazing difference. Same with pork, I can't eat grocery store pork any more. 

Snowing hard here too. Guess we better get to the dump and get our alfalfa pellets before it gets too bad.


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## Bruce

Can't you buy new pellets instead of picking through the dump for discarded pellets?? 

Yeah, yeah I really do understand those are 2 errands  But it sure did read funny.


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## frustratedearthmother

I almost said the same thing, lol!


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## NH homesteader

Lol! Oops!


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## NH homesteader

I was going to post that it had stopped snowing...it just started again though. A lot. Glad we got our errands taken care of.


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## Mike CHS

We made today as an inside 'get er done' day and we at least got up into the low 40's.  I made a big pot of jambalaya this morning to warm us up.


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## Bruce

I have been advised that I am planning to get up early and blow snow in the morning.


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## CntryBoy777

Well ya don't have anything Better to do, do ya?...
Your "Love" is to be more than 1 day....and ya have already set "Precedent"....


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## Bruce

True, though staying in bed until 6 is nice!

I guess it is a second Valentine's Day present.


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## CntryBoy777

Well Bruce how is Christofur doing, along with the Boys, and your Girls?


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## Bruce

It was warm yesterday and the snow where I had blown paths were melting. The girls came out up to the front of the barn over toward the area where Christofur has his food and water. I was shoveling snow/ice off the back deck areas and saw Christofur watching the girls from just inside the door.  After a bit all but Angel went back to the barn, they were making "concerned" sounds but not panicking. Then Angel was wandering (making those concerned noises) up the path toward the car and Christofur was following in a hunting crouch I yelled at him a couple of times as he and the hen went up the rise. The hen went around the car and came back down the path closer to the house. The cat didn't go all the way up to the car but retreated toward his door. Then the stupid hen wandered BACK north toward his door but turned around and went to down to the lower section of the barn. Thus I don't know if he would have gone for her or not but I sure didn't like the motion. 

Went below freezing again overnight so there are sections of ice on the paths, treading carefully!, but it should go above freezing tomorrow and stay that way for a couple of days so maybe the ice will melt. 

The boys are the boys though apparently they occasionally host a wild rabbit. I've seen it down in the barn alley twice when they were outside but my wife saw it there pretty much right under them the other day. I have seen rabbit tracks outside the barn door a couple of mornings. Looked like it checked to see if the door was open and when determined it was not went around back and came in the alpacas' door.

All but 2 of the girls are laying, I'm still amazed but not complaining! Given I don't expect Echo to ever lay again, I have 10 of 11 girls working which is nice. I have extra eggs but nothing like you have! I gave a dozen to my friend the sewing machine "doctor" on Thursday. He took that up after retiring as a Software Engineer for 35 years back in 2013. He fixed up a little Singer #20 "child's sewing machine" for me. It originally belonged to either my MIL or FIL. We have 2 of them from the early 1930's.  We were each other's Best Man a couple of decades ago. I get the "Best Man" discount - parts only, no markup. He fixed up my wife's early 1970's vintage Singer last year, cost me $18


----------



## CntryBoy777

I wouldn't be too concerned about the chickens. As long as they are mature, I've never seen a cat do anything but stalk and startle them. My "Little Man" was about 6mnths old and when we moved up here, he got his first Peck on the nose and never bothered them again. We had a backyard full of feral cats in Fl and when I brought the chickens home, the cats never bothered them. So, I would be very surprised if Christofur ever messed with them...he is still very young and stalking is what they do.
Glad the weather is warming up there for ya, and ya can get a break from blowing the stuff so early in the mornings.
Sure sounds good on the egg front, too. I know the Boys will be glad to get back to real grass...they have to be getting tired of "Frozen Dinners"....


----------



## Bruce

The boys won't see real grass until late April or early May but they were out this morning under the solar panels looking just the same. They seem to be happy enough with their hay. Of course they don't get a choice, I'm not feeding them a ton of alpaca pellets each day!

We are down one wild rabbit. Don't know if it is the same one we have seen in the barn by the alpacas. Circumstantial evidence to be sure but when I looked in the broken window of the little barn there was a dead and partially chewed up rabbit, Christofur was sitting not 2' from it.


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## NH homesteader

And THAT is why I don't like cats.


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## Bruce

I forgot to mention that my Woodcraft order came today. The 4" blast gates have knurled knobs, same as the ones I got last year from Acme Tools. Sure would help if they showed BOTH sides of the item. I'll have to go login and mention that in the comment/review section.


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## Mike CHS

I forgot to come back and tell you that I could not find the gates I thought I had.  We had several people help us pack up and I have a feeling some things got misplaced.  No idea where those things went.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Being a cat owner, I don't mind the cats getting a meal off wild animals outside. They get plenty of mice and rats, and other things. Rabbits here can become a real problem, if too many....just the natural order of things. Christofur is just trying to earn his keep...dogs will kill and eat rabbits too. Beagles love them.
So, ya got your Pentacryl, too? It will probably be in a couple of wks before I cut the tree, but will be soon. I will give at least a few days notice beforehand.


----------



## NH homesteader

Domestic cats decimate wild bird populations. Among other wildlife. I'll have to disagree that it's the "natural" order of things as domestic cats are not native species. My dogs have chased wildlife on occasion but have never done any harm to them.


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## Bruce

Yep, got my gallon of Pentacryl and the dust collector parts. We'll have to discuss what I can make for you once I see the wood, sometimes the wood tells you what it wants to be


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, there are some healing limb cuts on it, so could be some knots in the trunk. I will send ya some pics to choose from.


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I forgot to come back and tell you that I could not find the gates I thought I had.  We had several people help us pack up and I have a feeling some things got misplaced.  No idea where those things went.


Not a problem Mike. Now when you DO find them, you will probably have need to modify your DC system for some new tools and be all set 

BTW, when I went back to put in my review, I noticed the prior reviews were from 2010. Product change in 7 years is pretty likely.


----------



## Bruce

Not much exciting going on here but I found another reason to NOT buy the 8" bolt hooks because that is all they had at TSC. 

Looked out the kitchen window about 5 today just after putting the animals up for the night. Saw the gate in the west fence line swinging for the cheap seats. Put my insulated Carhartt Overalls back on and the winter hat with built in face mask and went out to look. And no, nobody opened it, no prints in the snow. The pin BARELY touched the outside of the lifting part of the latch when I went to close the gate. Very surprised since that one originally had a good inch of pin past the inside of the latch. I hiked to the workshop, couldn't find the big Crescent wrench so grabbed the Channel Locks. Moved the gate away from the hinge post as much as I dared (outside nuts half threaded) and the pin barely made it past the inside of the lifting part of the latch. Not enough to get a carabiner in the locking holes. Hiked back to the workshop and got the strainer wrench. Tightened the wire on the floating brace and a some on the appropriate wire on the H-brace enough to get the carabiner in. 

I don't know exactly what happened but at 0°F and 25 MPH winds I was in no way interested in forensics, just solutions. My GUESS is that with the warm weather and rain and the ground getting mushy then refreezing that maybe the floating brace pad sank some allowing the strike post to get pulled north. But like I said, in no mood to get out the level and check for plumb. Will do that when it warms up to something reasonable.


----------



## Mike CHS

It never happens in good weather as we all know.


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## CntryBoy777

Well I can't say that I can blame ya on that there....just glad it was a quick fix...for now.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Not much exciting going on here but I found another reason to NOT buy the 8" bolt hooks because that is all they had at TSC.
> 
> Looked out the kitchen window about 5 today just after putting the animals up for the night. Saw the gate in the west fence line swinging for the cheap seats. Put my insulated Carhartt Overalls back on and the winter hat with built in face mask and went out to look. And no, nobody opened it, no prints in the snow. The pin BARELY touched the outside of the lifting part of the latch when I went to close the gate. Very surprised since that one originally had a good inch of pin past the inside of the latch. I hiked to the workshop, couldn't find the big Crescent wrench so grabbed the Channel Locks. Moved the gate away from the hinge post as much as I dared (outside nuts half threaded) and the pin barely made it past the inside of the lifting part of the latch. Not enough to get a carabiner in the locking holes. Hiked back to the workshop and got the strainer wrench. Tightened the wire on the floating brace and a some on the appropriate wire on the H-brace enough to get the carabiner in.
> 
> I don't know exactly what happened but at 0°F and 25 MPH winds I was in no way interested in forensics, just solutions. My GUESS is that with the warm weather and rain and the ground getting mushy then refreezing that maybe the floating brace pad sank some allowing the strike post to get pulled north. But like I said, in no mood to get out the level and check for plumb. Will do that when it warms up to something reasonable.


One of the things I learned to do with this type latch, is to weld an extension on the pin before I ever install it so the pin stick further out past the latch. IF something should move, the gate will still latch because the pin is plenty long to engage the swing bar.
Not my gate--pic is for illustration purpose.






If it's the free swing both directions kind, not much you can do until you find out what happened to the post(s).
(I prefer my gates only open in one direction, closing into the latch and against the post. That way, pressure against the latch from livestock is only an issue from one side, and I always use a chain as well...a couple of my cattle have either learned to open the swing bar or open it by accident when scratching their heads against the latch. 
Only time I need them open both directions, is if opening the gate closes off another opening, such as the approach to my handling pen.




If you see someone getting rid of a trampoline, grab some or all the springs--they come in handy. I have 4 gates, that I installed some surplus trampoline springs on to make the gate close on it's own if not tied back. 2 are on my alley 3way sorting gate, another on a 7' gate that is simply there to allow cattle to move from one pasture to another, and the last is on a 3' wide gate that is my emergency exit gate in the pen working area by the head gate.  The cattle can get pretty rambunctious when I open the head gate and release them, and I don't want to be messing with unlatching a gate if a trainwreck is in progress and I have to get my wrinkled ol butt out of there in a hurry. That gate is spring loaded shut, and all I have to do is grab it, open it enough to get thru and it slams shut behind me against a big post. It's saved me and others more than once.


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## Bruce

This gate is hinged on the right (the wrong, i.e. downhill) side for the same reason as your blue/red/orange gate. At the moment only the area on the barn side is accessible to the boys but I figure if I made a pasture on "this" side, I could open the gate to either one by swinging the gate to open one and close off the other. Though I suppose even that could have been done with a 1 way latch. I do like the idea of being able to go through a gate without having to pull it toward me and backing up to create the opening but I can see with hefty cattle having the post there as extra support for the gate.


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## CntryBoy777

So, did ya investigate the reasons for having to adjust the gate to make the latch work?


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## Bruce

Nope! Will do that when the ground stops moving. I have the carabiner in the holes now so that will keep the gate closed no matter what. 

I suspect part of my problem is the time of year I was putting in the posts. Everything from rain to snow and freezing/thawing ground. I probably didn't always get a great "tamp" around the post. The floating brace rock likely got pressed into the ground, I suppose that frost heave thing might be a "con" for floating braced posts. Could be I need a bigger rock. Finding one won't be hard, moving it to the brace might be a bit more of a challenge. I think I'll have to sled it somehow.


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## CntryBoy777

May be if ya ask really nice and include a bribe, the Boys will help ya pull it to where ya need it. Just tell them they will be much Safer if they did so.


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## norseofcourse

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!!!


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## Hens and Roos

Happy Birthday- have a good one!!


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## NH homesteader

Happy Birthday!


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## CntryBoy777

HAPPY BIRTHDAY BRUCE!!!!!!
62 yrs ago..........Have a Great day FRIEND!!!


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## Mike CHS

I'll add my Best Wishes for a great birthday.


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## Latestarter

Happy B-day Bruce. Hope there are quite a few more in your future!


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## frustratedearthmother

Happy B'day!  Hope it's been wonderful!


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## Bruce

Thanks everyone


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## Bruce

I moved snow yesterday and today. After I cleared the parking area I went through the small door in the drive bay to the lower part of the barn (4' high drifts between the barns, the access to the south door of the lower part of the barn) to give the boys and girls morning snack and water. The alpacas had pooped in their indoor space. Deep snow from the north end of the barn to their outdoor poop pile 50' south. They went about 15' south when I came out with the shovel, I had to step some distance away from the path they had made to get them to go back in the barn because they don't like me to get too close. Teddy had to jump and turn to get turned around, the snow was up to the middle of his side which means about 3' deep. I shoveled them a path to their pile and made sure they knew the path was there, they went all the way to the pile and turned around (I made a cul-de-sac) and went back in the barn. 

When I went to give the birds and beasts their night time snack and close up one of the boys had pooped inside again 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 I didn't shovel ~300 cubic feet of snow for them to poop inside! NO SNACKS FOR YOU! I got the shovel to clean it up and made them walk the path in front of me. I guess I didn't really MAKE them, they were just staying away from me as usual. They jumped the poop pile (I had blown a decently large area in their area south of the barn after I had lunch) and I dumped their poop in the pile. Wife and DD1 were in the house and saw Teddy jump. When I got back in they said Teddy was frolicking in the snow. No he was jumping the poop pile to stay away from me!

Better not be poop in their part of the barn again in the morning or they are going to be disappointed when they only get their water and hay topped off.


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## Bruce

Snow pictures:
My car from the bedroom window (thus the screen)
 

View out the front door of the enclosed porch. Note that no shoveling has taken place overnight but there HAD been a path down to the cars.


View from the north end of the house, just around the corner to the left from the last picture. Yes we have wind funneling that will totally clear an area 

 

My car from the outside, it didn't go anywhere yesterday. And my wife's car, it had gone to work yesterday and went again today. Thus I moved a lot of snow.


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## Bruce

Well Christofur is now an indoor cat. The alpacas were chasing him in the field which means he wouldn't be able to get winter water down in the lower part of the barn. And, DD2 was home for the week on spring break. Wife has 2 cats, DD1 has 1 cat and DD2 love cats. So now Christofur is DD2's cat and if/when she moves to a place of her own, he will go with her.

He hasn't got good social skills with the other cats. Samantha, the 15 Y/O diabetic one turns on him and hisses (which sometimes starts a hairball cough which he finds much more frightening) anytime he gets even slightly close. Rascal (10) and Checkers ( 5, DD1's cat) are having a tough time with Christofur, he wants to play (I guess) and keeps running after them only to get a massive hiss in return. They are getting PTSD from looking over their shoulders all the time. Seems to be getting better though.

First we brought him onto the enclosed porch.

Rascal and Checkers meeting Christofur through the window, too cold to leave it open with the screen down though
 

He likes to play with the fish. Yes I know the tank needs to be cleaned.
 

Checkers watching from a safe, high, spot.


Christofur has dumped the cat toy box several times. We think he has ADHD, he'll dump it, grab a toy to play with and 15 seconds later is back looking for a different one.


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## CntryBoy777

I really just don't know how ya stand it, I do feel sorry for ya, I really do. I can barely stand to bundle up and go to the goat pen and back....and then complain when I have to go out again. Toting water and scooping ice out of the bucket with my hand for the Hot water to warm the bucket is the Pits. I would rather complain about the heat here, than to endure the Cold and snow for that long a period of time each yr. If I lived there I doubt I'd have animals...except Inside ones..


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## Bruce

When I "bundle up" it is in my Carhartt insulated coveralls that my in-laws got me a few years ago. They are great for the morning and evening trip to deal with the animals. They could use some waterproofing though, lots of areas got snow covered yesterday and it does melt where it is close to my body. Takes a long time to dry, even in the living room where the woodstove is. I think I need a tall coat rack or something to hang it on.   

The water for the boys isn't difficult, they don't fill their bucket with junk. I have a "pasta scoop" that is pretty worthless for pasta, it has a HUGE hole in the "bowl" part that most everything goes through. But it is useful for scooping the odd piece of hay out of the bucket. So I don't have to clean out their bucket all that often and just top it off every morning with my cat litter "jerry jug". 

Having Christofur outside was a PITA in that respect. I would have to take hot water out several times a day, smack the frozen water out of the bowl and refill it. Sometimes there was a half "ball" of ice that would fly off into the snow but often there was a lot of ice frozen to the side and bottom that had to be cleared out. Not fun.


----------



## Mike CHS

The first day of Spring is just a few days away.  

After seeing your pictures I don't think I'll gripe about picking up 5 gallon buckets of sheep manure every day.  At least I only have to deal with mud to get it out of there.


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## CntryBoy777

One thing about living here is, when it is 40° or 7° the attire is the same....may have a layer or 2 more....but, for the most part it is the same. We don't have enough of the cold to justify the expense of different coats and attire, because it would just be packed away most all the time. So, we just bundle up, rush thru the chores, come back in and bad-mouth the conditions while standing in front of the heater.


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## Bruce

The Carhartts are my 40°F to -whatever°F attire. If it is really cold I will wear thermal underwear under my clothes under the Carhartts. Above 40° I have a "barn coat" - old winter coat with a zipper I can get to start nearly every 5 times. It replaced the old "barn coat" with a zipper that would maybe start right every 10 times and the external side seams were ripping out. The "new" barn coat is my old winter coat which was replaced with a new one that the zipper works on almost every time. And it isn't all grungy from years of "primary winter coat wear".

My winter coat is my "winter purse" and I'm loath to unload all the pockets so anytime I go out off the property whether it is 50° or -20° I wear that. If it is cold or snowing I have side zip wind/ski pants that go over my regular pants. Had them for probably 15 years, still good as new. SO much easier to take off when you get to work than stripping down to take off long underwear so you don't fry in the office. I really don't like carrying anything in my pockets so in non-winter coat seasons, other than the fob for the car and my wallet, everything else tends to stay in the car.

No snacks for the boys this morning, they pooped inside again  NO reason to do so. Again they led the way down the path to the poop pile and jumped over it with me carrying their "deposits" in the shovel to the pile. Took a couple of trips. When I left the barn they were waiting for their snacks at the gate.


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## Latestarter

Might be time to leave the boys outside for a few days so they can re-discover their poop pile outdoors. They are after all wearing rather heavy fleece coats that should more than adequately protect them from that mild winter weather you're presently experiencing... 

Just as an aside, they do sell spray on waterproofer for clothing... It works pretty good. I've used it in the past for hunting apparel.  https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hunter-s-Specialties-Water-Repellent-Spray/27652542   Just as an example... Most everyone lives near to a wally world. There are dozens of variations/iterations.


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## CntryBoy777

I love having pockets to keep stuff in and that is the bonus to having to where a coat during this time of the yr. If I'm working outside past the coat season, I carry a box with me that contains stuff I may need. I would like to get some over-alls but they are just too heavy to begin with, much more when they are soaked with sweat. They are difficult in the washer and dryer too. The bulk of a tool belt just gets in the way too.

I sure hope the Boys don't change their "Spot" on ya, but can't blame ya on not feeding treats....I don't reward bad behavior either. Hope things work out with all the felines inside...they are looking really Good.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Might be time to leave the boys outside for a few days so they can re-discover their poop pile outdoors. They are after all wearing rather heavy fleece coats that should more than adequately protect them from that mild winter weather you're presently experiencing...
> 
> Just as an aside, they do sell spray on waterproofer for clothing... It works pretty good. I've used it in the past for hunting apparel.  https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hunter-s-Specialties-Water-Repellent-Spray/27652542   Just as an example... Most everyone lives near to a wally world. There are dozens of variations/iterations.



Yep, I think Vermont may have been the last state to get a WW, I think there are 3 now, one is about 7 miles from us. I'll look into the spray. Probably have to wait for it to warm up though because it likely would stink to high heaven and we don't allow anything with "man made stink" in the house.

Since I stopped working on converting the old piece of deck to a 3 sided shelter when I started working on the fence for Merlin, they have no outside shelter at all. And no water. But yep, I sure thought about it. If they are still doing it when the temps go to the point I can have a water bucket outside, the boys might find themselves outside whether they like it or not. 

Though ..... until it started getting really cold and snowing a lot, they stayed out all night anyway. I got some enzyme stuff from the pet store and sprayed it on the horse mats in the stall after the first time (when they were trapped inside) after they had been excluded from the stall for several days. Maybe it doesn't work well for alpacas, they went and pooped and peed in the stall the very next day even though it wasn't bad weather outside, no snow, not horribly cold. I guess as soon as a spot smells "right" it is fair game. When it warms up I'll pull the mats out and wash them with bleach water though there isn't much I can do about the dirt under the mats. They managed to choose a spot where 4 mats met.


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## NH homesteader

Pretty sure that's because half the population of VT comes across the border and shops at Walmart in Lebanon and (I think) Littleton.


----------



## Bruce

Certainly those who live on the east side of the state. 0% sales tax vs 6% (and maybe plus the 1% 'local option' tax).

Of course one is SUPPOSED to pay a "use tax" with their income tax equal to the VT sales tax they would have owed and the sales tax they did pay on items bought out of state or internet/mail. You can make it easy on yourself and just pay based on income so you don't have to keep track of it all. If you buy a lot of 'not in state' stuff, it is cheaper. 

I suspect the rate of observance of this is about equal to the rate of observance of the posted speed limit.


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## NH homesteader

I would suspect that as well. Lebanon is a sea of green plates. Sometimes I wish we had a sales tax, it would help my frustration level a good deal!


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## Bruce

While there are a lot of green plates here (of course), we see _*large*_ quantities of Quebec, NY, NH, MA with a smaller quantity of Ontario, CT and RI, even the very occasional AK. I once saw an HI. That had to be a permanent but recent move


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## Bruce

There is a strange yellow orb up above in a field of blue. Wonder what that is?

More poop in the alley this morning but I saw Teddy using the pile last evening and there was fresh stuff there this morning when I dumped what was in the alley. Maybe it is only Laddie who is pooping inside. I gave them their morning snack at the gate since that is where they were waiting.

Adjusted the panels to 37ish°. Next adjustment is 28° on April 1 then 21° on April 18th and 17° on the 30th. I'm trying to interpolate the "adjust 4 times a year" dates and tilt from here:
http://www.solarpaneltilt.com/

I don't know how much "improvement" I'm making but as you can see from the graph, there appears to be some "too early" and "too late" in the 4 times a year compared to fixed all year and winter all year. Of course trackers are much more effective but their cost is significant and the warranty on their "lives" is only 10 years whereas the warranty on the panels is 25 years and the post and frame holding them up should be about forever. Metal I-Beams on Sched 80 iron pipe set in 3' diameter sonotubes at least 5' deep.


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## Bruce

Officially spring (by the calendar). Figured I'd see @CntryBoy777's spring and raise him 

Heading into the north field then "panning" west then south back to the house.

    

From the west side of the west field. The boys are "eating grass" under the solar panels

  

Teddy close up from the south end of the barn

 

The girls prefer to stay inside when the spring ground is covered with snow


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## CntryBoy777

Boy oh boy, what a difference....the Hi here today was 88°, was a bit windy and Humid. I could only stay out til about noon, then I had to call it a day. Guess I'll have to work faster tomorrow.....


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## Bruce

That's what you get for living in a hot place! 

One does acclimate somewhat to the temps where they live. 35°F and sunny the other day, I was out with coat unzipped and no gloves. Of course come Oct when it is 35°F it will be a might different!


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## Mike CHS

Fred you guys have been running 10 degrees warmer than us all season.  I prefer our hills.


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## Bruce

And spring continues in NW Vermont, 3"-4" of snow yesterday and last night. I had no planned to blow or shovel since they were predicting about 1/2 that.


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## NH homesteader

Yeah we got 5" and we weren't even supposed to get snow. Ugh!!


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## CntryBoy777

What a bummer, y'all don't deserve such rude treatment. We are borderline heading to summer already, just have to get thru this rainy period. I have to get started on cutting grass before I get behind.


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## Mike CHS

I don't envy you folks with all that white stuff.  We have a cool season grass that I have been cutting since November.


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## Latestarter

I spent the last 2 days mowing... I finished 1/2 the back pasture and today finished the front. I feel like I've been run over by a truck.


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## Bruce

I won't have to mow until mid May


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## CntryBoy777

Bruce said:


> I won't have to mow until mid May


Seems to me that have been burnin' much more gas on running over all the Sn** ya been getting. Do ya use more gas in winter or summer?


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## Bruce

No, it seems to be about 1 gallon/hour regardless and though we do get snow here and there through the winter, the grass grows from May through Sept/Oct. I think I've blown snow only 4 or 5 (5 or 6??) times this year. I should really mow every 5 days minimum in the spring, I swear you can see it grow from one morning to the next. PRESUMABLY I'll be mowing less this year with the Alpacas here to eat it down. I had 3 areas to mow. Takes about 2 hours to do it all:

The part around the house where the Alpacas can't go.
The "riding ring" and solar panel area
The area behind the barn.
Of course unless I restrict the boys, I'll probably have to mow some of the second 2 areas anyway, 2 alpacas won't keep up with 3/4+ acre when it is growing fast. Even the people across the road with 2 alpacas and 3 horse on ~2 acres of pasture mow now and then. There are some things none of their animals eat so they have to mow to keep those weeds from seeding the pasture.


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## NH homesteader

Oh mowing. I'm not allowed to mow. My husband used to do landscaping, here and in CT for some large businesses, and he has OCD about his grass. Why does my backyard that no one ever sees need to be striped? Dude can drive a zero turn like nobody's business.


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## Bruce

I'm not that picky. When DD2 is around I make her do it. She only complains a little since basically she is sitting down with her earbuds in listening to music. Such a tough job! I do have to make her slow down though or the grass doesn't get cut well, especially when turning. Like @Latestarter's new machine, mine has a 19" turning circle so you can go around trees and bushes pretty easily.


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## NH homesteader

I would love to mow. Music and the drone of an engine.... My kid can't talk over that!


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## CntryBoy777

I have 3 primary areas that I mow, too. The smallest takes about 45 mins around the house.....field#1, where the fence is going, takes about 1.75hrs....and field#2, in front of trlr takes 2.5hrs. I've never cut fields #3-4 on other side of ditch with rider....hoping to work on it some this yr tho....


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## Bruce

Get out there to fields 3 & 4 before the grass is 4' high!

The area around the house takes about 1 hour, more due to the "going around things" than actual area so other than maybe mowing the fields (~4 acres) every couple of weeks after Al mows them the first time with the sickle bar, that hour should be the limit of my mowing. Of course those fields aren't exactly golf course fairway smooth so not fast going unless I want to rattle my body parts out. We'll see if I do better at getting out there this year. 2 years ago was the only time I actually kept up with it.


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## Bruce

Didn't have my camera yesterday so no video of the alpaca races, followed by an alpaca fight. Don't know what was going on with that but they were both breathing really heavy by the time they were done. Laddie had to lie down.

Teddy (the black alpaca) was chasing chickens behind the barn again today . I have no idea why. The girls are going back there when the boys are over past the solar panels. If they don't get out before the boys meander back in, squawking, flapping running and under the gate. At least 2 of them, the others headed for the alpacas door. My wife was out (to let me know I had to come in and help with taxes). She went through the barn and the stupid girls were "hiding" between the fence and the half open door. Mind you that is TEN hens, not exactly invisible. I gather Teddy was coming around the corner. Wife had to coax the hens to go around the door and into the barn. Teddy won't approach her other than for food. Of course it is the same with me.  

Started adding a 4' high section of chicken wire to the 16' cattle panel at the north end of the east fence (*) because the girls have figured out they can escape the fenced area and get into the back yard by going through the 1st full height opening. It wasn't an issue during the winter since they stay in the barn most of the time. They don't need 4' to stay in but without the dog to keep out predators I figured going to 4' (already had the wire anyway) would force a climbing predator to go through the top ground wire and the hot wire above it.

Only got the north end and the top done and the other end tacked in, needed to come in and help with the stupid taxes. Then make and eat dinner. Then more taxes.

Note to self, unplug the charger just in case you might happen to lean your shoulder against that top wire while attaching the chicken wire. 

* which means straight out the back of the house and near the little barn.


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## frustratedearthmother

Bruce said:


> Note to self, unplug the charger just in case you might happen to lean your shoulder against that top wire while attaching the chicken wire.



YIKES!!  (but darn good advice!)


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like ya was fairly busy there. Don't forget about the Charger!...


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## Mike CHS

I had no idea what 15,000 volts felt like until this year.


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## frustratedearthmother

Was it kinda like this?


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## Mike CHS

frustratedearthmother said:


> Was it kinda like this?




It was sort of but a whole lot faster.


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## Bruce

Yeah, it only hurts for about 5 minutes, don't notice it after 10. Makes me pretty certain that if a predator tries to climb over the top they won't try it a second time. Got my order from Premier 1 today so tomorrow I will be putting on the "reverse insulators" to get some "heat" low on the predator side of the fence to deter digging. I figure 1 at 6" and 1 at 12" with cut off switches for each since in the winter when the snow "grows" it will ground out. By the time we get  significant snow the ground should be pretty well frozen so no digging is likely and I can just open the switches. Of course I need a pair of switches on the "far" side of each gate.


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## CntryBoy777

It may be worth keeping the wire in the air, than underground...pvc/mtl conduit is Cheap...just a thought..


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## Mike CHS

I always enjoy reading your journal but I again learned about a way to solve a problem we have.  I had never heard of the reverse insulators but after seeing it in your thread had a good idea of what it was and went to Premier1's site to check it out. 

That just solved a problem for us where I was thinking the only way was to use step-in posts and poly wire.

Thanks again.


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## Bruce

I have the PVC ready to bury under the gates with the insulated hot wire running through it. It was a suggestion made by @greybeard. When it is buried I won't have to worry about driving over the pipe or beating it up with the string trimmer (or beating up the string on the trimmer ). The pipe has risers with 180° elbows at the top so no water can get in. Couldn't bury it in Dec, cold ground don't you know! Didn't have enough insulated wire to run the ground through as well so at the moment it runs only to the gate in the west line. But I have more insulated wire in my order so I will run it through the conduit before I bury it. *

I may have to run a low wire on the outside of the gates from the hinge side since there isn't wire running over the top. Probably have to pair it with the ground wire since the j-bolts for the gate hinges go into 6" wood posts, not the best to complete the hot-ground circuit. But if those suckers are touching any part of the fence or the carried ground wire at the same time as the hotwire, I bet I get to hear them scream.

Glad to help Mike! That is what communities like this are for 

* Note to anyone who wants to do this: run the wire BEFORE you glue anything together. I glued the 90° elbows and the risers on the ends of the pipe and the insulated wire REALLY doesn't like to make that turn on the far end. Good thing I didn't glue on the 180° parts or I would NEVER be able to run the wire through. I could cut the pipe near one of the 90° elbows to be reconnected with a union but that would sort of be cheating wouldn't it!


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## CntryBoy777

Either that or lube the wire...


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## Bruce

It slides fine but the end runs into the 90° at the far end (about 14') and when it tries to turn up into the riser it runs into the edge of the pipe where it bottoms out in the fitting. Since there is only horizontal "push" and no way to change the angle, it jams up into the "corner". I ended up folding it over and taping it so it was thicker and managed to get it in that way.


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## Bruce

Got the 5 wires on the outside of the T-posts in the north line today, DD1 helped. I set the gaps at 6", 6", 9", 12", 12". It is about another 6" to the carried ground wire and 6 more to the hot wire on top. I'm leaving those on the inside.  One of the new wires(not connected to the charger now) crosses right over a brace wire strainer so I'm going to have to insulate the wire in that location. I have the 2 knife switches installed, daisy chained so the hotwire from the first switch runs both to its wire and to the second switch. Of course they won't be needed until next winter, my "issue" now will be to make sure I keep the vegetation from growing up to the lowest wire.

Plenty of mushy and standing water in some places there. Sure could use a backhoe to create a channel for the water instead of having it sit on the clay over ledge. 

There is some green growing and the boys are finding it, they haven't eaten much hay since yesterday. I counted my remaining bales - 20 plus one "open" bale. I bought 38 in the fall. I think maybe I'll buy fewer bales next fall


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## Bruce

The 7 new chicks arrived at 11:28 AM Tuesday. They had a pretty quick trip given they left Meyers in Ohio around 9 AM Monday. 
2 Welsummers (chipmunk with dark and light head), 
2 Barnevelders (chipmunk with all dark head), 
2 Exchequer Leghorns (yellow and black)
and an Easter Egger. 

Here they are with their Mama Heating Pad cave in a cardboard box in our bedroom. MHP raised chicks sleep silently in their cave all night long. During the day they come and go as they feel the need to warm up. The heating pad is strapped up under a metal frame, the entire thing is in a pillow case. They get warm by going in far enough to contact the pad. Actual ambient temp in the cave is unimportant.

    

And here is a movie, turn up your volume all the way and you might be able to hear the happy chicks.


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## Mike CHS

Congratulations to the new chickey Dad


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## CntryBoy777

I'll be interested with your thoughts and opinions on the Welsummers. We settled on the "Dotties", but still thinking about adding some later. They are all little darlings....my question is how can ya watch and tape and not talk to them? I just can't do it....I even talk to the ones at the CoOp no matter who is standing there....


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## Hens and Roos

We have Welsummers, they are the talkative one of our group, we like them and they lay a terra cotta colored egg.  We(DD is good at it) were able to figure out at hatch which ones were pullets and which ones were cockerals.  Our pullets had a dark V on their head and dark eyeliner above the eye.


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## Bruce

I go for variety in bird and egg color. That way I can tell who is who and who is laying, plus I think it makes the flock more interesting. Never had any of these breeds but EEs (which aren't a recognized breed ) before so I don't know what their personalities will be like.

The 5 year old girls are:
1 Ancona (laying 2-3 a week but very weak shells, usually crushed by the time I find them)
2 Black Australorps (1 is laying 3 a week, the other started with no shell eggs last spring)
2 Faverolles (1 was laying ~4 a week again this spring until she went broody, then bailed on me)
1 Easter Egger (still laying 4-5 a week)

The 2 year old girls are 
2 Black Australorps
2 White Rocks
2 Easter Eggers


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> my question is how can ya watch and tape and not talk to them?


You wouldn't be able to hear their little voices if I was talking!


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## Bruce

Moved the babies out to the brooder area in the coop yesterday, they were a week old. Now the cats that like to sleep with us or sleep on the bed during the day can do so again. 

Had to kill my favorite hen Sunday. Echo was a 5 Y/O Black Australorp. She had laid only shell-less eggs since last spring. Prior to that she was my best layer closely followed by an EE the same age (she is still laying about 4/week). Echo had a nasty bloody prolapse Saturday afternoon. It was clear her chances of recovering were nil. She had a lot of personality, survived a fox attack 2 years ago and what I GUESS was an infection last summer. I have graphic pictures of the necropsy, I think she had a lot of small, hard tumors in her abdomen. She was a very happy hen for nearly 5 years.  

I now have 3 hens that think 5' is not a barrier. One of the 2 Y/O EEs and the 5 Y/O Ancona both fly up to the top of the 5'+ high gate between the barns and then over. The other 2 Y/O EE flew up to the 5' high hot wire on the new fence then over. So much for stringing wire above the fence because they won't try to land on something that thin!


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## CntryBoy777

Sorry to hear about Echo there Bruce, but certainly nothing ya could've done for her....except what ya did, it can be tough to do...but, better than suffering. That is one thing I just can't stand. Something my Mom would do is get a couple of sticks, broom handles, 2x2s, or whatever ya have and attach them to the post to extend up about 1-2' and tie some rope, twine, or such to them and make 2-3 runs of it loose, with a little sag in them.....or ya can always clip a wing, or fatten them up a bit so they are heavier and can't get tbat high.


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## Baymule

Sorry about your hen. She had a good long life for a laying hen. Echo was your favorite, that always makes it harder to do what you have to do.

I usually butcher mine on their second molt at 3 years old. I have one hen that is 6 years old, she was the Queen Of The Coop, now she is the old lady. LOL

I set my first clutch of eggs and they are hatching now! There were about 7 or 8 EE chicks awhile ago with more pipping. I set 24 eggs, we'll see how many I get hatched. My rooster is so darn mean, he hates me and tries to spur me every day. I go in with a 4' stick so I can keep him off me. This seals his fate. He has 3 hens, so I'll collect another batch to set, then OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!! It ought to give me enough replacement hens for the 5 I will butcher this fall.


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## Bruce

And likely a replacement roo with a better temperament!


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## NH homesteader

Sorry about Echo, it's the hardest part of having animals. 5 years is a good amount of time.


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## CntryBoy777

Have safe travels and Congratulations on the Graduation....give that girl a "Pat on the Back" and a "Atta Girl" too.....
I hope she has a "Bright Future" in all of her endeavors...


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## Latestarter

It's been 17 days since your last post... do you know where your journal is?  <--- That old commercial just popped into my head... Anyway, saw in another thread that your trip to get DD#2 went well and that you're all back home. How is she liking being back under mom & dad's wings? Has she decided what she's going to do and where? It's almost 10am and I'm sitting here with the light on as there's a nice dark T-storm that's lowered the daylight substantially. How are your alpacas doing? You had said you were going to get them sheared and not sure if you've even attempted to get a look at their hooves for trimming. Are they any more friendly now?


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## Hens and Roos

I think he's out catching up on everyone else's threads


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## Bruce

H&R is right, and it is an impossible task! 

No friendlier, not checked hooves but I'm going to have to do that and get them sheared or buy the tools and do it myself. I'm going to need to build a squeeze chute of some nature just to get a halter on them I think.

They aren't keeping up with the spring grass at all, mostly eating in the old "riding ring" area. There was a lot of tall (10") thicker grass between the barn and the pond (the "original" area) that they weren't touching. Similar stuff with a LOT of weeds of all types out west of the old "riding ring". Before I had the boys I used to mow the ring and behind the barn, the rest was "field". Yesterday I mowed behind the barn and the "new" area. I fenced in that 1 acre (including the pond) more for the dog to have more space. Now I have more to mow and no dog.

Need to take pictures of the chicks, they are 3 weeks old today. Sure was spoiled with the last set that Zorra raised and showed the ropes to. She is now in the broody buster wanting to hatch chicks but having NO interest in the chicks she could be raising. Pretty sure the "sexer" at Meyer screwed up on at least one this time around. Small yellow comb on one of the Barnevelders, no tail to speak of, still has fuzz on the "shoulders" and legs a weight lifter would be proud of. The other Barnevelder has bigger legs than the other breeds but not like this one, has a full complement of feathers, a tail and less comb.


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## Mike CHS

It is amazing how fast the vegetation grows this time of year.


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## Baymule

Sometimes you get surprises in baby chicks.....that's how I got my nasty EE rooster. I guess nobody told him he was supposed to be a pullet!


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## Bruce

Am I right or am I right?
the presumed boy 
  and the other Barnevelder

Welsummers (brown birds on the right)


Exchequer Leghorns. Feathering more slowly but at the same rate as each other. Not worrying (much) yet.


Cassiopeia (EE)


The alpacas must think the chicks are just another type of non threatening songbird. The second one is fuzzy but I include it because you can see how far they go into the boys' area.
 

After I took those pictures I heard the littles farther away. They had gone through the alpacas' alley and out the door. To my knowledge this is the first time the littles have gone outside. They will, of course, die out there since it is 65°, they are 3 weeks old and they aren't fully feathered yet  Chicks require ambient temp of 95° for a week, dropping by 5° each week until they are 4-5 weeks old my (donkey)!!!!  So many people bake their poor chicks following this "they say" "fact". These girls hadn't been in their brooder area with their MHP since I let them out at 7:30 AM.


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## CntryBoy777

Glad to see things are growing there and ya can disconnect the snow blower for another summer. The chicks are looking really good and we put ours outside at 3.5wks, but it was in June here....they are almost a yr old now.
Good that your trip went well and ya made it back safely.


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## Mike CHS

We have given all of ours some supplemental heat with the 'safe' heat lamps but it isn't much.  They have been pretty hardy here but our temps are nothing like yours.  We didn't baby them much once they got past 3 weeks old.


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## Baymule

Mine are in the brooder on the porch. We got a cold front with night temps in the low 50's. Yeah, I know that is the norm for most of ya'll this time of year, with a frost or two or three thrown in just for fun, but for us, that is unseasonably cool for this time of year. So I screwed their light bulb back in. I think it's a 75 watt, need to change it out for a 60 watt.


----------



## Bruce

Yesterday I removed (*) a long piece of 4' chicken wire from the old fence and put it in front of the sheep and goat fence I used to enclose the area outside the north end of the barn last Sept in prep for the alpacas. Once I saw the chicks had decided to go out the alpacas' door I knew it was just a matter of time before they went through the fence just a foot past the edge of the open door. Yep, I had to herd some of them back in to put the wire in their way. I still need to wire it permanently to the S&G. 

Zorra's pea brain is spinning. While she was in the buster she took great umbrage when I picked up a chick and it did the "I'm gonna get killed!!" peeping (so did the Fav that helped raise the last batch). I let her out of the buster Wed morning since she had started "talking" more normally. She hung out on the south side of the alley since I had run hardware cloth across it to let the littles have access to their brooder space and the run. Yesterday she laid a massive 80g egg and again positioned herself in front of the run. I didn't put up the wire separater. She won't let the other bigs get near "her" area but isn't' hanging out with the chicks either. But I saw one chick go closer to their door to the coop and she chased it. I don't know what is going on in her head. I put the wire back up at 5 PM and herded the chicks into the brooder so they could get to their food (they had been foraging outside) and water. 

Also mounted the alpacas' automatic waterer on the H-brace for the gate that keeps them from coming up between the barns. No use in freezing weather but easier for me than filling their bucket in the barn with the 2.5 gallon "jerry can" (over the 3' high hardware cloth "fence", through their gate)  Right now it is fed by a hose that LOVES to kink in many places, useless on a reel and most everything else that requires moving it. Long term I would like to bury a pipe at least from the house to the little barn since at the moment the hose runs across the grass and I'll have to disconnect it when I mow. I know, whine whine whine!!

* TONS of pneumatic gun long staples in posts and top and bottom "support" boards. Another addition to my scrap metal pile.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like Zorra took to her new area that ya gave to her and she was rehomed into, and is Defending her territory. She laid an egg and probably still wants to set, but her eggs keep disappearing so she is frustrated. Also, she may like the peace and quiet without all the hen Drama.
What if ya set up a barrel in the barn that ya could fill with the hose, and then....with a spigot or valve attached....ya could turn a handle and fill the water buckets from the barrel? Ya will still have to deal with the hose, but may be only once or twice a wk. If it stays a decent temp in the barn it could aid during the cold weather too.


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## Latestarter

I have hoses stretched across my pasture and back yard to fill the water where the pig pen was going to be and once it's been filled/pressurized the weight carries it down to ground level and the grass and weeds grow up around it. I run the mower right over it with no issues whatever. Of course it has to be a straight run with no loops or kinks that would lift it up into harms way... and I can't mow close at either end where it lifts to the spigot and to the end hanger. Though I agree, a buried pipe would be very beneficial in the long run including being able to use it in the winter months (buried below frost line and with a no freeze riser in the barn area).


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## Bruce

The inside of the barn is the same temp as the outside air in the winter. Plenty of fresh air flowing through that old barn! Though I suppose if I put the stock tank heater in a barrel it would keep it from freezing. Of course there wouldn't be any way to fill the barrel after it was emptied unless we got a timely thaw other than bringing 20 jerry jugs from the kitchen.

Zorra seems to be shifting to "sorta of taking care of babies" mode. Today she parked near where the littles were, kind of puffed up in the "I'm here if you get cold" mode. Not that they would even think of going under her since they didn't grow up doing that and hardly go under their MHP anymore anyway, at least not during the day, I don't know about night. When they went around the corner into "Alpaca Alley" she followed. It was raining today so they didn't go out. She got kind of frazzled when some were in the "AA" and some were in the alley in front of the alpacas' stall. Seems she wants them all close together in a pack she can keep an eye on all of them at the same time. And she went in the brooder area to eat and drink with them. Still pecked now and then but in general they seem to accept that she is hanging around and generally safe. Hopefully she will take to herding them around and showing them the ins and outs of living here.


----------



## CntryBoy777

If ya have an inside hose hook-up ya could run water thru the hose to fill it, then unhook the hose a drain it...roll it up until next time. It would be much easier than toting water everyday in that nasty weather ya have there. Just watch the weather reports and choose the warmer days to fill. Water does weigh 7lbs/gal, so I'd roll 3 100'ers 1-2 times a wk as apposed to hauling it everyday.....


----------



## Mike CHS

We all whine some but it is to an understanding audience.  

We had to go back and put 24" chicken wire on the G&S fence that the smaller birds could walk right through.  Fortunately for them they did it on the side opposite from Maisy.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> If ya have an inside hose hook-up ya could run water thru the hose to fill it, then unhook the hose a drain it...roll it up until next time. It would be much easier than toting water everyday in that nasty weather ya have there. Just watch the weather reports and choose the warmer days to fill. Water does weigh 7lbs/gal, so I'd roll 3 100'ers 1-2 times a wk as apposed to hauling it everyday.....


When was the last time you lived where it got real cold for a long time?  We have an old galvanized well pressure tank. Have to drain and refill with air every year or so or it gets "waterlogged". I made the mistake of doing that in Dec a couple of years ago. Hose out the basement door, open the valve, watch the water drain for a bit until ... it froze in the hose. And I had to finish by carrying 5 gallon buckets. 

I do have a frost free faucet coming out of the crawl space in the rebuilt part of the house. Can't use it in the winter, any water in the pipe outside of the seated valve freezes and blocks the pipe. But it did go up to 47° on 12/18 and 37° on 12/27. Managed 41° on 1/12 and 13 (Annual January thaw). Above freezing 8 times near the end of Feb. Unheard of, the normal highs are in the low 20°s. 46°on 3/1 & 2, then didn't go above freezing until 3/28.

So yeah, if I had a 50 gallon drum with spigot (how does one keep THAT from freezing) I could probably save quite a few "jerry jug" trips from the kitchen in the winter.


----------



## Bruce

Things seem to be settling into "normal" with Zorra and the chicks. She let Anais (Faverolles) hang around with them some today so I ASSUME Anais was the Fav that played "auntie" last time around. 

New for the littles:
Scratch last night, BOSS this morning, raw egg this afternoon. Yue (Ancona) has been laying really thin shelled eggs this year, guess her shell gland is giving out. She must have broken her egg getting out of the box today. As usual when such a thing happens I toss it on the ground (with whatever shavings are attached) and the girls dig in. Won't be long before the littles are running to greet me morning and evening just like the older girls when they get "snacks". They LOVE their snacks.


----------



## luvmypets

Hey @Bruce we have to see some updated photos of the pacas!


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## Bruce

Yep, poor Teddy has a HUGE glob of matted fiber in front of his right eye, has for a couple of months. Must have a "Before" picture of that!

I decided to bite the bullet and not wait to see if the (one apparently) local shearer is going to come by this year. Their prior owners said they could not get ahold of him in the spring and by the time they did in late summer it was too late to shear, they wouldn't have winter coats when the time came. The boys are suffering for it, that was obvious even early last Sept when we snacked them and changed their water for 2 weeks at their old home. Can't imagine how bad it will be this summer if they don't get sheared soon. 

For better or worse, I ordered the Premier 1 4000S plus a camelid comb. I'm pondering making a low (12" to 18") shearing platform and try shearing them standing. They would have to have their bridles on, tied up on both sides plus probably have their legs tied at 4 corners so they can't kick and squirm around. I know the "stretched on the floor" method is most common but I just can't see how that is anything but uncomfortable and scary for them. Probably not too bad with an excellent, experienced shearer that can get the job done in < 10 minutes but I'm betting no matter how many YouTube videos I watch, I'll be taking a LOT longer.

2 years ago the shearer was charging $35/animal, I suspect it will be higher now, everything goes up in price. So if I CAN manage it myself the payback with 2 animals is about 5 years. And if he doesn't come by, and I'm not TOO bad at it, maybe my neighbor would let me do her 2 for maybe $20/head. Cut the ROI down some more.

I'm sure when you all see what the boys look like when they are done, you will be laughing WITH me, not AT me 

Any suggestions before I embark on this foolishness will be gladly received.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Wear football pads?  Good luck!


----------



## Mike CHS

frustratedearthmother said:


> Wear football pads?  Good luck!



I was thinking a cup might be appropriate.  

Seriously though we are looking at getting some shears.  Some of our Dorper dominate ewes are looking like they will be all summer shedding and they need it off before the heat gets here.


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## CntryBoy777

Don't take time to shear a "Logo" or stripes on them, and it doesn't have to be even either.....
If at first ya don't succeed, try...try...and Try again....


----------



## Bruce

I'm sure I will Fred! And again, and again and again. When you do stripes, do they go along the body, across the body or diagonal??? 

I will definitely keep the "protection" suggestions in mind.  Even after I catch them up and get the halter on (SO easy I'm sure!  ) I bet they won't just offer up each leg to be tied. Once I DO have 3 tied, I might start with toenail trimming, go around to all 4 in turn then start the shearing process. I plan to do Teddy first because:

He has that nasty mat hanging in front of his eye
He is the more skittish of the two so I hope my chances of getting Laddie 2nd are better than getting Teddy 2nd. Teddy might end up at the far end of the field once I get him. Maybe I'll rig up a rope between the NW corner of the barn and the fence so Laddie can't go TOO far if he decides not to stick around. However, Alpacas are serious pack animals, I doubt either would go too far from the one that is being tortured, I mean shorn!, since they only have each other. 
He is black. Don't know how much difference that makes to how hot they get though. Several many inches of fiber is serious insulation and Laddie is fairly dark brown other than his white neck. I bet he is just about as hot as Teddy
Well, I have ANOTHER broody. Angel (White Rock) was in the nest box in the middle of the day yesterday, STILL there at "bed time". Growled at me when I took her out. She had laid an egg. If she is in there again this morning she goes in the buster. She is the only one of the now 2 year olds to go broody last year but broke in a day and didn't try that stunt again. She is one of my best layers, don't need her out of the lineup!


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## CntryBoy777

If @AClark was closer she could heel him for ya with her roping skills, just like she did her son...


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## luvmypets

Uh not to rain on your parade but I really don't think you will get far shearing them standing up. They are very skittish and considering your boys are shy in general I think it would be dangerous to try to shear them on your own. Ours who are pretty friendly thrashed while on the ground. Just a thought, if you weren't so far away I would help you out!


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## AClark

CntryBoy777 said:


> If @AClark was closer she could heel him for ya with her roping skills, just like she did her son...


Haha, actually that might work. I use the dogs to catch my goats, they are friendly enough to come up to me, but not enough to let me catch them. They herd them into a small area and my son and I mug them. Once caught, they are fine, but catching them without the dogs is an effort in futility.

Bruce, I don't know much about Alpacas/Llamas but I watched a YouTube video on shearing them. Looks dangerous to me, and like a two person operation. Maybe some sedative is in order?


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## purplequeenvt

Snub them up close to a wall and put a towel over their head, loosely covering the nose. They won't be able to wiggle so much tied really short and the towel usually keeps them calmer. PLUS...if they do start spitting, they won't hit you with it and they can't see you to aim their kicks. Worked on all the llamas I've ever sheared.


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## Bruce

@luvmypets (nice avatar!): I have NO intention of doing it BY myself! All the videos I've watched (*) have multiple people. One holds the head, one shears, another takes the fleece away and bags it. Often there is yet another person sweeping up loose fiber. These are either on a tilt table or stretched on the ground. I DO plan to enlist the aid of at least 2 family members whether I do them standing or stretched.

Thanks for the input @purplequeenvt, I have plenty of towels . Makes sense, if they can't see they aren't likely to be trying to run all over the place. In one video I watched they had a loose sock over the alpaca's nose specifically so it couldn't spit. For those that don't know, alpacas don't spit saliva which while disgusting enough on its own would be preferable to what they do spit. They spit from the contents of their first stomach, smells wonderful . Thankfully, the boys have reserved that action for each other, never tried to aim at me. But then I've never pushed them either. So if I can trap them against the corner, I can hopefully put the halter on. Having an extra couple of people SHOULD make that easier, right?

Since I don't have @AClark to heel them, maybe I should lay out some snare traps in the alley so they heel themselves  I do need to make a "chute" narrow enough they can't turn around once they go in. Their alley isn't quite tight enough for that but I should be able to rope it off (would that work?) or make a board or partition to make it narrower. I bet they will be REAL suspicious about that. Maybe I better get that done a few days before shearing so they can get used to it - sort of like setting out a live trap that isn't set so the target decides it is just a new part of the environment and not dangerous.

My plan to elevate them some is for my comfort, not theirs. I'm not as flexible as I was 40 years ago and don't imagine bending over trying to see under an alpaca would be fun for my back. Of course I could always assign DD1 the job of shearing the underside, she's not quite 5' 2", is 24 Y/O and flexible enough to do a vertical split in a doorway. Me? I can't spend even a few minutes in a "catcher's squat" without being unable to stand and walk without discomfort. Yep, sounds like a plan, I'll tell her when I hand her the shears 

* other than the one lady doing it with the alpaca standing, she knows her animals and made sure she was pressing against it so it couldn't take her down. I also suspect the animal was pretty well used to being sheared and wasn't as spooky as my boys are.


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## Mike CHS

We use a T-post outside our loading chute that we tie a cattle panel to keep it wide open like a Y.  We feed them in that a couple of days before we want to get them into the chute so it is fairly easy to get them in and just pull the cattle panel in tight.  Works for sheep but I'm not sure about your alpacas.  Plus we have our dogs guarding the panel so the critters don't want to go that way.


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## Bruce

This is "alpaca alley". They haven't figured out the double acting hinges (*) so it is tied open to the outside. The big piece of plywood isn't there now.


 

This is where I THINK I can make it narrower so it acts like a chute but the near end looks like this
 

Hard to tell since I don't have a picture close enough to the barn alley side of Alpaca Alley but to get to AA you go to the double doors at the end and turn right. I could drive a T-post in at the barn alley end of AA and run a board or panel from it to the strike side of the door to form the Y (OK, a V). And if I put something horizontal across the barn alley side of AA ONLY when I want to trap them, they would be stuck in AA as long as there is someone "driving" from behind. Another horizontal board behind them would keep them trapped. BUT there isn't enough space in AA to actually work on them so it would mostly be to hold them until I can get a bridle on. Then they would have to be lead into the barn alley where there is more light and space and shearing/toenail trimming could happen.

This is the outside of their doorway. I could set something movable (wood, rope, panel) on the mess of wood there and connect the other side to the strike side post for the gate (lower right), thus trapping them close to the green door where we can try to herd them inside one at a time. The other possibility is to put that moveable "thing" between the corner of the barn and the strike post. The double doors could be opened once one animal is secured inside so the one outside and the one inside can see each other. They definitely don't want to be out of each other's sight. They NEVER are and I think to do that would cause them great consternation.
  

* I tried to get them used to the door by tying in open to the inside so there was a gap big enough for their head. But they get nervous once their shoulders start in and they feel the hinge pressure. Then the door catches on their necks as they try to back out. Panic ensues. They don't understand it is a one way door until they get all the way in.


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## Bruce

We went out to dinner tonight so I closed up the barn at 4:30. I wanted to close Zorra and the chicks in the brooder area (with no top they can get out if they want) but they had no interest in going inside. So I closed the door anyway. Not predator safe if the auto door closes but the original chicken door is open!! Got back about 7:30, still plenty light. Went to see if Zorra and the chicks had all made it over the wall (~16" high, no problem for the chicks, they were 4 weeks old on Monday). 

No Zorra, no chicks! What the heck?? They wouldn't be outside, right? Nope. Last time Zorra moved the chicks to one of the open nest boxes when they were 2 weeks old. At 4 weeks some of the chicks started roosting up on the 4' roosts. No chicks in the divided boxes either. Thought I heard a bit of peeping, opened the lid on the 4' long community box. Yep, Zorra and 7 chicks were inside. Guess I can remove their MHP cave, clearly they aren't using it. I unplugged the pad yesterday. Old picture of the community box, the brooder area is on the inside of the coop on the same wall. The glass door is the original chicken door and serves as a "private entrance" to the brooder area.


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## Mike CHS

It sounds like they are ready to be independent.


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## CntryBoy777

It sure doesn't seem totake them long to out grow their set-up...I was absolutely shocked last yr when ours were peepers at there growth rate. The ducks were even more growth, daily they'd be noticeably larger. Those feathers pop out quick also.


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## Bruce

The "funny" thing is that they WERE independent the first 3 weeks before Zorra decided she wanted to mother them. It will be interesting to see how long she does it. Last time it was from 4 days old to 2 months, almost exactly to the day they were hatched. Since she started 3 weeks in this time, will she toss them at 2 months of age or 2 months of mothering? Stay tuned for the answer to that!

They didn't really outgrow the brooder space! It is slightly larger than the enclosed nest box. Of course it does have their MHP cave and the board holding their food and water. I'm GUESSING Zorra took them up because higher is safer. Now, when will they decide to hit the 4' roosts?  Are the going to be slow at that because they were independent for 3 weeks?


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## Mike CHS

The mothering instinct keeps surprising me.  You see that on BYH threads several times.  Our two turkeys were 'mothering' 10 of our chicks almost from day 1 and they were the same age.  Five week old chicks are in the same pen as 12 week olds and we have seen no sign of pecking order issues.  The few times we do see the bigger ones start to pick on the smaller ones, the turkies are right on top of it and it stops.  It will be interesting to see how long that continues but it won't be long before it won't matter since the chickens will be the same size.


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## Bruce

Doesn't seem to matter even when they are all the same size/age. My Anconas were on top (literally and figuratively) even though they weren't the biggest birds, closer to the small end really. But they felt the need to show the other girls they were in charge even though they were never challenged (*). I have read that if you have a rooster the pecking/bullying to decide/maintain order is somewhat less because the rooster steps in. Maybe your turkeys are playing that role.

* until Zorra took the 4 day old chicks and beat up on every hen that got close. The anconas ran scared from her.


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## misfitmorgan

As far as shearing goes. We sheared our not friendly llama. DH grabbed him i put the halter on with a leadrope. We then tied him with no slack to the top bar of the old milk stanchions. Sheared him while standing, i did nothing but watch and we used a goat comb to shear. He was tight enough to the top bar that he couldnt open his mouth far enough to spit and only his back end could dance around he kicked a little when DH got to legs and belly but overall he stayed pretty calm and still. The shearing took approximately 25 minutes and DH did a complete shear leaving him only a neat tuff on his tail end.

Since you have males i will say be careful on the belly check for a protruding belly button and of course watch out for the sheath. DH put his fingers on the sheath tip so he didnt lose track of it and quickly sheared the belly. We still need to trim toenails but we left that for another day because DH was shot after shearing 3 sheep and trimming their hooves before we even got to the llama.

DH did say this was the second time he sheared this llama, the first time they ground tied him like you see in videos and the llama flipped out, was way calmer standing.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> the first time they ground tied him like you see in videos and the llama flipped out, was way calmer standing.


Glad to hear. That is kind of what I'm thinking. I can't think of anything more scary for a prey animal than being strapped down on the ground. Bad enough to be tied standing.


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## misfitmorgan

I also forgot, make sure you tie their head up high enough so they cant lay down. The llama tried laying down a few times but he couldnt get his front end down on the ground so gave up and stood back up.


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## Bruce

Yep I read that. Head held high so they can't drop down. ASSUMING they don't drop right off! We shall see. My shears were supposed to come tomorrow, standard 2 PM to 6:30 PM. Well the driver never gets here until the tail end of that so I changed the delivery to hold it at the main plant. 28 miles 1 way but I can pick them up at 10 AM and MAYBE be shearing by noon. 

If a BIG llama took your DH 25 minutes, a small alpaca shouldn't take me more than an hour and a half 
I will have less help after tomorrow so IF #1 goes well, maybe I can get them both done (nails too) by dinner time, ie before the shears would have been delivered by the truck.


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## misfitmorgan

Hopefully it goes well for you and the boys


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## frustratedearthmother

We will want pictures, of course!


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## CntryBoy777

Sure hope all goes Well with no injuries to people or animals, what an Adventure!!....


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## Bruce

We had to muscle Teddy up onto the platform. He was really good for a really long time. Even though his head was tied he managed to kush so we had to let off the head lines. After a while he stood back up, readjusted the lines. Kushed again some time later, adjusted the lines. He stood again and after a bit decided he couldn't wait any more any emptied his 10 gallon bladder. OK, maybe only 1 but that boy can PEE for a LOOOONG time.

All went reasonably well for the first side. After that I was fighting to get the shears to cut well like they did on side one. I have NO idea what I am doing wrong. Using lots of oil (like 3/4 of the bottle that came with the kit), took the cutter out and cleaned the oily matted fiber out of the groove, put it back together, more oil. LOTS of times. Tried adjusting the cutter tension. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

I only managed to get Teddy's back, sides (to the hip), front and halfway up his neck. He isn't real fond of the neck part. Took 3 hours. FRUSTRATION. Here are some "before" pictures. No after pictures yet. I did manage to get a good hunk of that mat on his head cut before we started. Used the toenail cutters, I do not recommend them for this purpose.


 

Apparently I didn't narrow Alpaca Alley enough. Laddie managed to turn around. Prior to this picture they ducked the ropes I had across the end. Seems like I need a more "for real" gate structure.

D1, Laddie's butt, Teddy. Took some doing to get Laddie backed out. We tied him to the stall door with a towel over his head and he calmed down. Didn't take too long to figure he wasn't going to get done today so we let him loose.


(L - R) DW, Teddy, D1's friend (visiting from Indiana), D1.  The platform did work OK though I am going to need to come up with some official and permanent leg holders. I had a rope for the back feet but since the boys weren't willing to let me measure them before making the stand, I didn't know where to put leg tie downs.


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## CntryBoy777

It is progress Bruce, and like most things, it will get easier the more experience ya gain. I certainly Applaud ya and think it was a successful first "Go" at it. I have no experience with the clippers, so I can't help ya there, but ya sure made some head-way towards getting it done....


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## Latestarter

Sounds like you had quite the adventure. First time through is always a learning experience. Thanks for sharing.


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## Mike CHS

It's good to see pictures to get some size perspective about those critters.  I did not realize they were that big.


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## Bruce

But what did I learn??? The first side was smooth sailing, after that it was push, shove, hack take apart, put back together, rinse and repeat!


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## CntryBoy777

Ya could always have about 4-5 lined up and just keep using a fresh one, until they all need to be dealt with....not familiar with the clippers tho...just a thought.


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## misfitmorgan

You may have actually dulled the cutter enough that it needs to be sharpened. Often new cutters will come with a tiny bit of sharp to them and then you use them for a bit like half a sheep worth and they dont wanna cut because the dirt on the critter dulls the tiny edge that was there. Send your cutter and comb set out to be sharpened or if you have an extra cutter try it. You could also try contacting premier1 and telling them the problem to see if they will offer to sharpen them for free maybe or you could try sharpening them yourself, that is what DH does.

One set of cutters and combs should last about 5 sheep before needing to be sharpened. Typically you dont need to use a ton of oil, we used maybe a tablespoon when we sheared our Llama. I got a picture of him all sheared up.


 
He didnt wanna stand up but all he has left is the little tail puff.

It should definitely not take 3hrs to shear an alpaca. If it feels like your having anymore trouble getting shears thru fleece/wool then slicing thru slightly chilled butter, something is wrong.

I am wondering why you have that alpaca tied up so much? Those two uprights on the front of your stand, screw a board across them at high underchin height and use a clip or a lead to clip/tie their halter as close to that board as possible. They can not kush and only their rear moves around. Dont know about the alpaca but our LLama could only do short forward kicks when we had him tied like that, he wasnt even kicking at us he only kicked at the shears on his under belly. 

Thats what worked for us anyhow, it is your critter so however you wanna do it but being prey animals the more you restrain them the worse they act generally.

I hope attempt number 2 goes better for you


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## Bruce

Thanks @misfitmorgan. Only ONE tablespoon for an entire llama? Wow. I used 2/3 of the bottle. Clearly doing it wrong.

Yes the boys are dirty. I could hear the grit in the screws that hold the cutter in when I was taking it off to clean out the fuzz. The shears did get hot so maybe too tight?

Sharpening every 5 sheep would be about every 2 or so alpacas I would guess. Didn't know they dulled so quickly. Seems like I should get a couple extra cutters. Do you know anything about the ceramic ones? Premier 1 site says they last 3 times longer but I ASSUME they can't be sharpened. What sort of file does DH use to sharpen the cutters? I have some small files, including a 1/8" round one and a 1/2" (I think) half round. Or do they make special files just the right shape for sharpening cutters? 

He was tied up like that to keep him from moving his head  There was a convenient eye screw up high on the wall on each side. Maybe prior people tied horses? Don't know. I will try your board idea though I would have to truss him up first to know what height to make it, the boys don't have a desire to stand still and let me measure things. It would definitely be easier to just tie his head at 1 point. Might even be able to mount an eye screw at just the right height that I could clip a carabiner to the ring on the halter.  I guess that will be "Alpaca Shearing Stand Mark II © patent NOT pending"  

Your llama looks WAY better than poor Teddy!


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Thanks @misfitmorgan. Only ONE tablespoon for an entire llama? Wow. I used 2/3 of the bottle. Clearly doing it wrong.
> 
> Yes the boys are dirty. I could hear the grit in the screws that hold the cutter in when I was taking it off to clean out the fuzz. The shears did get hot so maybe too tight?
> 
> Sharpening every 5 sheep would be about every 2 or so alpacas I would guess. Didn't know they dulled so quickly. Seems like I should get a couple extra cutters. Do you know anything about the ceramic ones? Premier 1 site says they last 3 times longer but I ASSUME they can't be sharpened. What sort of file does DH use to sharpen the cutters? I have some small files, including a 1/8" round one and a 1/2" (I think) half round. Or do they make special files just the right shape for sharpening cutters?
> 
> He was tied up like that to keep him from moving his head  There was a convenient eye screw up high on the wall on each side. Maybe prior people tied horses? Don't know. I will try your board idea though I would have to truss him up first to know what height to make it, the boys don't have a desire to stand still and let me measure things. It would definitely be easier to just tie his head at 1 point. Might even be able to mount an eye screw at just the right height that I could clip a carabiner to the ring on the halter.  I guess that will be "Alpaca Shearing Stand Mark II © patent NOT pending"
> 
> Your llama looks WAY better than poor Teddy!



2/3 of the bottle is ummm a lot! For llama and alpaca you need more oil because there is no lanolin in the fleece to lubricate the cutter/comb so that "more" oil is about a tablespoon. Typical sheep you need a few drops per sheep.

If they are getting really hot either to much tension or just ran for to long. To set tension turn the tension nob all the way tight then back it up 1/4 turn. Turn on shears and slowly turn the knob backing the tension off until the pitch changes and the shears sound like they are running quieter....but only just until. Never go more then 1.5 full turns of your tension knob or your cutter will fly off and break your yoke spring lol. If your still having a problem with it getting to hot try getting some cool lube, it works good.

To sharpen cutters and combs they do not use those kind of files, they use a lapping machine. Basically get yourself a wetstone or an oilstone and lay the cutter cutting side down on the stone to sharpen same with the comb, basically the two sides that face each other on the shears are what you sharpen not between each "tooth". DH uses an oilstone, what movement you use to sharpen i have no clue as DH does it. There are some youtube videos that might help search "sharpening electric sheep shears", you might also just opt to send them in to be sharpened as it is only $7 plus shipping and a lot cheaper then messing up the cutter/comb and buying new. Btw if you didnt know Lister blades are an exact match for the premier blades and you do not have to use the camelid comb. We used a 20 tooth goat comb on our llama and he didnt come out bald or anything. 

You should be able to shear both of your alpaca with one sharp blade. Ceramic blades are nice but they are cheap because you can not sharpen them at all and they can be broken fairly easy. That said being you only have two boys to shear a ceramic cutter would last you something like maybe 5-6yrs. If you have the premier1 shears the ceramic cutter they sell will fit the shears. To sharpen your cutter/comb it is $7 for the set, $7 for return shipping plus how much ever it costs for you to ship it to them so $14+ and the ceramic cutter is $15.50 plus shipping so not sure which way would be cheaper. Either way it will probly take about a week to get cutter/sharpened cutter/comb back to shear some more.

Only other immediate option would be go to the store and buy a lister cutter off the shelf.

Don't feel to bad, we had a half sheared sheep last year 

Pay attention to temp too btw. You dont want it to cold or two hot when you shear because you will shock their system. Here we aim for in the 60s or low 70s.


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## Bruce

Haven't seen low 70's for some time, unusual heat wave a few weeks ago.

Thanks for the great tips on setting up the shears. I'm guessing I had the tension too tight since the machine was heating up. I did look at the blade today and figured out it wasn't a "file the edge" affair. I ran it across a small diamond stone I have since that seemed to be the only likely way. Didn't do the comb though. I guess they both wear at the same time which is why P1 says to send them both in. Seems I should run the comb over the stone as well. I do have a whetstone so I'll use that the next time. Holding them flat down on the whetstone has to be easier than keeping a chisel or knife at the EXACT right angle  I have NO idea where I could buy a cutter off the shelf.

Can't work on the boys just yet though. Besides not having a great desire to shear wet animals I have to finish up the Engineering Change on the "Alpaca Alley Chute". I made it a bit narrower by replacing the horizontal pieces that are screwed to the studs with ones 3" longer, they now have < 24" which doesn't seem like a lot but since Laddie was able to turn around in 27"  I guess it won't be a problem for them to walk through. For gates I am repurposing a prop door from a Theatre on Ice number some years ago. For travelling purposes it was split in half vertically with the halves connected with a piano hinge. Remove some screws and et voila, two "gates"  The width of the door is just right for the narrower alley. I got hinges and hooks tonight, the only money I've spent on the stand and alley. Thus tomorrow, when it is supposed to rain ALL day again, I should be able to finish up "Mark II" on both the stand and the alley. Then I wait for a dry day to see if I can finish Teddy up. May or may not be related to "sheared or not sheared" but this morning when it was sunny for a SHORT while, Laddie was in the shade under the solar panel, Teddy was basking in the sun.


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## Bruce

Scores:
Varmints: Woodchuck 0, Bruce 0.25
  Trapped a chuck yesterday, Bruce 1. But even though it likely couldn't have been in the Havahart more than 12 hours, it died there. Bruce loses 0.5. Obviously a nursing female Bruce loses another 0.25. I can only hope the babies were very young and didn't suffer too much  I don't want them around but I don't want them to die an inhumane way. Would have been better if I could have trapped her before she gave birth.

Alpaca shearing: Teddy 10, Bruce 1.
I modified the shearing stand by adding wheels for easier moving and a "head board" with an eye bolt running through it to hold the animal's head as suggested by @misfitmorgan. I got a double ended snap hook to clip the halter to the eye bolt. I positioned the board at the top of the verticals, not having any idea how high it NEEDED to be. Walked (OK, *PULLED AND SHOVED*) Teddy up onto the stand, then moved the board down to where it was just below his head and clipped him in.

I started with regular household scissors on his head since he *very much* disliked having the electric shears anywhere near his head the last time. I cut off all the matted stuff on top of his head and gave him the best "by hand" hairdo I could manage. Now onto the electric shears. I had sharpened the cutter and comb on a whetstone. I still could not get the shears to cut ANYTHING no matter how I set the tension. It wouldn't cut the long stuff on his haunches nor even smooth up the already short stuff on his back and sides. So what to do? Yep, clipped him - haunches, underneath and his neck - with the scissors. Pretty much a hack job but when we look outside now, it is obvious someone stole our fluffy black alpaca and replaced it with a stick figure. He'll be a lot more comfortable now and since there are no mirrors in the barn he won't know how stupid he looks. Laddie might be telling him though  I guess I'll have to do Laddie's midsection with scissors tomorrow. It is supposed to be 80°

Teddy was very patient again. Took about 1.5 hours all totalled including ATTEMPTING to use the electric shears. Near the end he managed to pop the snap hook openbut the lead was still on him so he couldn't get away more than 6'. I had neglected to tie the rope behind him which didn't help. But I managed to finish his neck before trying to lead him away. He does NOT want to walk on a lead. Before I released him I checked his front teeth. That boy looks like he had orthodonture, perfect alignment. Shouldn't EVER have to file his teeth.


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## Mike CHS

I knew there was a reason we have hair sheep and no shearing.  

That is a long time getting that done but it sounds like the boys were trusting you.


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## CntryBoy777

However....Bruce, if ya truly look at it....ya was more than Successful. There were no animals injured during filming, shearing, and handling....and there were no people injured either. The cut may not be what ya would like it to be...and may be something to improve on, but the "Objective" was reached and conquered.....


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Scores:
> Varmints: Woodchuck 0, Bruce 0.25
> Trapped a chuck yesterday, Bruce 1. But even though it likely couldn't have been in the Havahart more than 12 hours, it died there. Bruce loses 0.5. Obviously a nursing female Bruce loses another 0.25. I can only hope the babies were very young and didn't suffer too much  I don't want them around but I don't want them to die an inhumane way. Would have been better if I could have trapped her before she gave birth.
> 
> Alpaca shearing: Teddy 10, Bruce 1.
> I modified the shearing stand by adding wheels for easier moving and a "head board" with an eye bolt running through it to hold the animal's head as suggested by @misfitmorgan. I got a double ended snap hook to clip the halter to the eye bolt. I positioned the board at the top of the verticals, not having any idea how high it NEEDED to be. Walked (OK, *PULLED AND SHOVED*) Teddy up onto the stand, then moved the board down to where it was just below his head and clipped him in.
> 
> I started with regular household scissors on his head since he *very much* disliked having the electric shears anywhere near his head the last time. I cut off all the matted stuff on top of his head and gave him the best "by hand" hairdo I could manage. Now onto the electric shears. I had sharpened the cutter and comb on a whetstone. I still could not get the shears to cut ANYTHING no matter how I set the tension. It wouldn't cut the long stuff on his haunches nor even smooth up the already short stuff on his back and sides. So what to do? Yep, clipped him - haunches, underneath and his neck - with the scissors. Pretty much a hack job but when we look outside now, it is obvious someone stole our fluffy black alpaca and replaced it with a stick figure. He'll be a lot more comfortable now and since there are no mirrors in the barn he won't know how stupid he looks. Laddie might be telling him though  I guess I'll have to do Laddie's midsection with scissors tomorrow. It is supposed to be 80°
> 
> Teddy was very patient again. Took about 1.5 hours all totalled including ATTEMPTING to use the electric shears. Near the end he managed to pop the snap hook openbut the lead was still on him so he couldn't get away more than 6'. I had neglected to tie the rope behind him which didn't help. But I managed to finish his neck before trying to lead him away. He does NOT want to walk on a lead. Before I released him I checked his front teeth. That boy looks like he had orthodonture, perfect alignment. Shouldn't EVER have to file his teeth.



Sorry to hear your still having troubles @Bruce  If you cared to mail the shears to me i could see if i/we can figure out what is wrong with them? I know they are not cheap and it would be nice if they were usable. Alternatively I think you should call premier and see if you can send the shears back in under warrenty to be fixed since they have the 3yr warranty.

Have you at all tried using one of the other combs? The 13 or 20 tooth that came with the shears instead of the alpaca comb?

I can tell you that on the Oster shears I bought the first comb and cutter lasted for all of our sheep(5 adults) but one, our llama, and our friends 6 sheep with DH just lightly re-sharpening it twice. DH did put the new cutter/comb set it got him to do our last sheep.


----------



## Bruce

I just sent a note to them via their Contact page and will see what they say. They have been very prompt with replies in the past. I didn't try the 13 tooth comb having paid extra for the "proper" one for my animals. The difference seems to be the height the comb rides above the skin. Your suggestion, I presume, relates to finding out if maybe the camelid comb isn't quite right? I do wish I had seen some, ANY, info on their site suggesting buying an extra cutter or two when I got the machine since it seems they don't last all that long. Though for my 2 animals one should last at least a couple of shearings for each of them, thus 2 years before needing to be sharpened.

Laddie is still a puffball and it is supposed to be 80° today, 78° tomorrow and 85° Saturday. Based on his spitting (wall) and screaming when we fixed his halter yesterday (it had slipped off his nose Friday but was still around his neck). I think he won't be as calm as Teddy on the stand. Will definitely have the towel over his head! 

I will see what they say. If they don't have any brilliant suggestions for use, I'll see what happens with the 13 tooth "normal" comb, household scissors at the ready for at least the barrel. I am GUESSING they will request I send the comb and cutter in for sharpening, if not the whole unit for inspection. Having never used shears before, I don't know what sort of "common early failures" they may already be familiar with.

And thanks for the offer to look at it! What a nice community we have here. Since it is brand new, I ASSUME they will take care of any problems the unit may have.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I just sent a note to them via their Contact page and will see what they say. They have been very prompt with replies in the past. I didn't try the 13 tooth comb having paid extra for the "proper" one for my animals. The difference seems to be the height the comb rides above the skin. Your suggestion, I presume, relates to finding out if maybe the camelid comb isn't quite right? I do wish I had seen some, ANY, info on their site suggesting buying an extra cutter or two when I got the machine since it seems they don't last all that long. Though for my 2 animals one should last at least a couple of shearings for each of them, thus 2 years before needing to be sharpened.
> 
> Laddie is still a puffball and it is supposed to be 80° today, 78° tomorrow and 85° Saturday. Based on his spitting (wall) and screaming when we fixed his halter yesterday (it had slipped off his nose Friday but was still around his neck). I think he won't be as calm as Teddy on the stand. Will definitely have the towel over his head!
> 
> I will see what they say. If they don't have any brilliant suggestions for use, I'll see what happens with the 13 tooth "normal" comb, household scissors at the ready for at least the barrel. I am GUESSING they will request I send the comb and cutter in for sharpening, if not the whole unit for inspection. Having never used shears before, I don't know what sort of "common early failures" they may already be familiar with.
> 
> And thanks for the offer to look at it! What a nice community we have here. Since it is brand new, I ASSUME they will take care of any problems the unit may have.



My suggestion is because we used a 20 tooth normal comb on our llama and i didnt see a problem at all with it. I did consider getting the camelid comb but honestly after talking to a few people who do llama and alpaca most people hate that comb and dont use it. The thicker the comb is the harder it is to use on fleece, thats why people who do speed shearing take brand new combs and grind them thinner.....thinner equals faster and easier on you , the animal, and the machine. So yeah i suggested the normal comb to see if A it's easier, B you like it more, and C see if the camelid comb has an issue.

There is not a particular downside to using a normal comb on a llama. They do not go completely bald and you have the same risk of cutting them. I will say i would be more comfortable using a 20 tooth comb but honestly if you dont go close to the skin it doesnt matter which comb is used.

I'm not sure what their suggestion will be but hopefully something that makes the shears work and quickly. Yep i also assume they would stand behind their warranty and fix whatever issue there is but once in awhile some good companies just fail.


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## Bruce

Interesting comment about staying close to the skin. I'm sure I ran it close on the first side, not so close on the second since I was somewhat blinded by the light coming through the window. Why is it important to be close to the skin? Shouldn't it cut the same no matter how high it is or does the closeness mean the hairs are tight on one side and cut better? Would shearing "off the skin" dull the blade faster for some reason?


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## Bruce

Woodchuck update: Bruce gains back that .025 points for causing the inhumane death of babies of unknown quantity or age. Saw at least 2, possibly more, little ones in the pile of wood in front of the south side of the barn. Clearly old enough to not need mama so I didn't inadvertently kill them. But I lose points because while she is gone there are at least two more. AND, as I suspected, there is still a BIG one in the timbers in front of the barn on the north side, saw it scrambling back into the wood just after I saw the little ones. 

Put the Havahart by the pile of wood where I saw them, DW and DD1 informed me later that they had seen 2 little chucks, about the size of the 5 week old chicks in that area and the metal can in the trap had been moved around. The little @#$ don't weigh enough to trip it.


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## Bruce

Shearing update:
Tried the 13 point comb on Laddie. Worked for about 1/2 of one side then was not cutting any more no matter what I did. Premier 1 did not respond to my contact which surprises me. I did the best I could with the household scissors. Cut him once when he bucked. Put some Hydrogen Peroxide and bag balm on it. Need to get some antibiotic ointment. Not sure how I'm going to keep an eye on that, it is on his body just forward of his right leg. But I really doubt he is going to let me anywhere near it since he isn't tied up. MAYBE I can trap him in the Alley chute but I'll need to put some heavy duty eye screws in the barn wall studs to tie his head if I hope to get anywhere near him to treat the cut.

Unlike Teddy who stayed relatively still, Laddie was spitting, kicking and bucking all over the place. I tried to tie his back legs and no way I could hope to get a loop around one, kicked like I was going to kill him and it was his only way to save his life. REALLY not sure how they managed to shear him prostrate in the past, you need to get ropes on all 4 feet before you can stretch them out and force them down. Ended up with lots of ropes which helped some. For him the stand needs many more side boards, removable rear gate and to be about 18" wide. As it is it sits at about 24" wide and he had WAY too much room to move.


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## Mike CHS

Bruce - what are you using for bait?


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## Bruce

They like chicken food and scratch. I tried strawberries to catch the mother since I had read they like those, not even slightly interested. Given the little $%^&*() have raided the chicken feeder daily in summers past, I'll stick with chicken food from now on.


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## Mike CHS

I'll try some of that.  Maisy got one the other day.  I had moved the electric netting and didn't realize one had a den with two entrances inside the netting.  I had no idea a dog could dig that fast.


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## Bruce

Yea Maisy!!!!!!
She must have been digging fast. The ones around here run like mad for their tunnels when they see or hear me and their tunnels must be really long given how far apart I find new entrances when I block one off.


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## Bruce

Took some pictures today, the chicks are 5.5 weeks old (*I* do not name the chickens, DD1 does though):
The Welsummers "V" and "Not V". Not their final names but one had a light brown V on its head when younger. 
Zorra and Trouble - the Barnevelder cockerel 
The Exchequer Leghorns - Oreo and ?? (your guess is as good as ours as to which is Oreo)


 

 



Zorra and Cassiopeia (EE) with the Barnevelders to the side. 
The Barnevelders, Trouble and Trill


 

 
DD1 has allowed that Trouble can stay as long as he is a "good rooster" which means: 
- not overworking the girls (of which there will be 17 though 5 are 5 years old so maybe not all are as fertile thus maybe less interesting). Even so, 12 girls should be enough to keep him plenty busy if he likes them all equally. Still not sure what DD1 is going to do about fertile eggs and the fact that they COULD become chickens IF they were incubated which isn't going to happen. I collect eggs at least at the end of the day and several times a day in the winter when the temps are below freezing.    
- not attacking the people. Not a problem, I have that rule as well. I have @Beekissed's tips for putting an aggressive rooster back on line and if he isn't a good boy and doesn't want to learn who is above him in the order, he goes.

The fluffy unshorn Laddie and Teddy the stick figure. 


 



The "Squeeze chute" in Alpaca Alley. Laddie turned around in it yesterday even though I narrowed it to less than 24"!!! And the shearing platform, Mark II. It now has a board with an eyebolt just below head level of a standing alpaca so the halter can be clipped in close and low boards on the side. Teddy sometimes slipped a foot off the edge when he was fussing. As noted above, it is way too wide to contain Laddie.


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## Mike CHS

I am constantly amazed at what we sometime have to do.  But in the end it is all done with a smile in spite of any frustration.


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## CntryBoy777

What if ha mixed in some pebbles to increase the weight on the trigger, so when the young ones step on it, they will trigger the trap?


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## Bruce

not a bad idea Fred. Now, to figure out how many small stones will make it a "hair trigger".


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## Bruce

Found a rock that nearly triggered the door, set the trap about 11 in front of the pile of wood where the little ones hide out in front of the barn, baited it with grower crumblets and went to do stuff. Got back at 4:15, could see from the car (all of about 25') there was a chuck in the trap. Not one of the babies but an adult. Didn't need the rock for that one! I wasn't really expecting to catch this one so easily, the older ones are a lot more wary and have avoided the trap in the past even when I had the open door right in front of their tunnel that opened into the barn alley. I ASSUME this is the one that I've seen going into the timbers at the other end of the barn. Been chucks there as long as we've owned the place so I imagine if I don't clear them all out (never have been able to) they just use the existing tunnels. 

Went in the house and told DD1 there was a chuck in the trap and asked how many of us were taking it for a hike to the west end of the property. Apparently only one of us. I could see one of the little ones peering out from the wood while I fashioned a cover with a sheet and Gorilla taped 2 pieces of foam pipe insulation onto the trap's skinny wire handle. Clearly not designed to carry your "victim" any distance. Hiked the 20 minutes with a sometimes shifting chuck in the trap. Sure would be nice if there were some way to get it into a smaller cage for transport. Got to the back of the property, faced the door end of the trap downhill and opened the door. The chuck came right out and ran downhill. Sometimes they hang at the high end and I have to shake them out. HIked back out, clearing some downed small trees as I went to make it easier the next trip. 

Unless it comes back (and I wouldn't know if it did) Bruce:1 Woodchucks: -1

I have a physical next month and you know how they always ask if you get regular exercise. Guess I'll say "no but I get irregular exercise."


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## greybeard

Sounds like a comment I saw on one of my cardiac exam reports.
"Mr Greybeard has an irregularly irregular hearbeat."


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## Bruce

And what luck it is regularly irregular, at least some times, at the Dr's office or they wouldn't know about it at all.


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## Baymule

Great job on shearing! Only one to go! This makes me even more happy that I have hair sheep, although those woolies sure are cute...... What are you going to do with the alpaca wool?


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## Bruce

Zero to go, only have the two. Need to get Laddie in the Alpaca Alley "Trap" and see if I can check out his cut and get some antibiotic ointment on it. Given how much he kicked and bucked getting "scissored" I don't think this will go well. I would have a much better chance with Teddy, he was fairly calm once we got him tied onto the stand so he didn't get cut.

I added 3 large eye screws in the walls on the sides of Alpaca Alley - 1 high and 1 low on one side, one high on the other. I ran a line through the 2 on one side and joined them to a carabiner to pull the animal's head a bit to the side and keep him from moving it up, down or away from the wall. The high one on the other side can then (IN THEORY) be clipped into the halter and tightened to keep him from moving his head toward the first wall. Of course this does nothing to keep him from kicking and bucking with the rest of his body. The cut is near the fold of his right flank.


PRESUMABLY the fiber will be picked clean, washed and spun so it can be used on the floor loom.  

Problem 1 is ... we have only the last machine needed in this process. Hand cards are relatively cheap and I wouldn't spring for an expensive carding machine unless there was serious motion working with what we have AND likely we would need to have WAY more fiber to justify the cost. DD1 and DW got a loom starter kit that included yarn and set up the loom (physically, not warping on the yarn) 3 years ago; it hasn't been touched since. The kit is still sitting in its box. 

Problem 2 is ... this whole fiber thing is supposed to be DD1's thing. Of course she needs a spinning wheel, wanted one before a friend of DW's gave us the floor loom, not sure what she planned to spin on it. Given how much effort/interest has been shown on the loom, I'm not so sure I want to kick out many hundreds of $$ for a wheel which quite possibly might never get used either. D1 WANTS but is much less inclined to DO. 

I'm sure we could send the fiber out to get made into yarn, not sure how much they charge depending one what it looks like when they get it. They probably don't want a bag of VM tainted, dirt filled blobs of  poorly cut fiber.


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## Baymule

Make a drop spindle, you can find you tube videos on them. Give that to DD1 and if she gets enthusiastic and starts spinning yarn, then you might consider a spinning wheel.  You can make a drop spindle from a dowel rod and a piece of plywood.


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## CntryBoy777

That's why my banjo is made in Korea, $200....instead of a $1500 gibson banjo. I love the banjo and really would like to learn to play it some, but I figure if the predictions come true about the wheelchair, then I'll have time to mess with it. But, right now I'm either too busy or too dang tired. So, I agree with ya Bruce....and understand completely.


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## Bruce

I managed to get antibiotic ointment on Laddie's cut. I trapped them in the barn by closing their door when they were inside. This, of course, meant they were facing the door trying to get away from me which put Laddie's "wrong" side accessible. It would have been a bit easier if I could have closed the barn alley (west) end gate on the "chute" and had them come in from the outside, then closed the door behind them. Then Laddie would have his right (injured) side exposed. But as they were at least trapped in their alley, I closed that west gate and pondered how I was going to do this.

It worked out, Teddy had headed for the door first so Laddie was stuck behind him. I was able to open the door just long enough for him to get out but not Laddie. He was, of course, not at all pleased. Spit on the far wall a few times but I somehow managed to get him to turn around. I was hoping to get him forward enough to attach the lines I had installed earlier in the day at the west end to his halter but of course he wasn't real interested in being led forward. He did calm down as I talked to him and touched his neck and back. He never got quite far enough forward to be clipped in but I was able to close the east gate. Apparently he decided I wasn't going to kill him and I was able to get a look at the wound, it didn't appear to be infected which is kind of amazing since he was cut with scissors that had been cutting his very dirty "wool". I got some ointment on it, told him he was a good boy and opened the west gate. Then I opened the east gate and the door. He headed out pronto.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure does sound like there is "Progress" being made, and the more ya handle them the easier it will become for you and them both.


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## Bruce

Woodchuck update:
 3 down, 1 (that I know of) to go. One of the little ones went in the trap this morning. Chicken feed apparently is great woodchuck bait. I figure it is young enough it won't be able to find its way back so I took it the ~650' to the pond on the north end of the property and let it out there. The prior (adult) chuck got the longer (~2,000') ride over hill and dale to the west end of the property. Still have one more little one in front of the barn, I'll set the trap again tonight and maybe it will follow its sibling tomorrow morning.

On the way back I decided I should suffer somewhat similar to y'all down south. 80° and high humidity. Supposed to hit 90° today. I pulled out the rest of the interior fence line posts and loose hotwire down that direction. It is amazing how energy sapping simple things are when the temp and humidity are against you. I THINK I have all the old interior fencing out though it is hard to know. A long loose piece of hotwire can hide under the grasses pretty easily. I know - I found several of those with the mower in past years. While following the fence line (many posts were already out) I stumbled over a post that was down, it had several feet of hotwire attached and sticking out into the grass. Could be more of those little traps. In any case it should be easier for Al to mow the field (singular now that there are no interior fences  ) this year.

Off to Montreal in a few hours to pick up the in-laws returning from their Amsterdam to Budapest river cruise.


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## Bruce

Thought I caught sight of a small woodchuck in the pile of wood in front of the barn last night when I went to put the chickens up for the night. Maybe there were 3 and I never saw more than 2 at a time? Maybe one of them DID come back? Fine. I got the trap back out, put the rock on the trigger and put in the chicken feed once I was done closing up the barn.

Sure enough when I looked out the window this morning the trap door was closed and I could see something brown moving. Not a good view since the trap was mostly blocked by the wood. DW had gone out to her car, came back in to tell me that Zorra and the chicks were up between the barns. The chicks found the alpacas' door on the north end of the barn weeks ago and rather than Zorra leading them out, I think they lead her out. They had made their way along the backside of the barn and out between them. Zorra can't get out the gate up front so I expect that is why they were all between the barns instead of out front. The "kids" haven't yet been brought out front. Funny thing is the other girls wait anxiously for me open the south doors, they never dare go through the alpacas' area even when they aren't inside. I'm not sure they even know there IS a door there.

About 9 I went to let the chickens out and deal with the woodchuck in the trap. Only by then the trap was on it's side, the white sheet I used to cover the cage when "travelling" that was sitting crumpled up on top was hiding much of the wire. When I got close enough to see, I discovered not a little woodchuck but a full grown effing raccoon. 

OK, plan A to cart a little chuck to the woods has changed. I went to open the barn and snack the chickens. They were quite happy as I had cut up a "past it's prime" apple for them. I also had the compost so I took that out the the garden. The bird that made a nest in the end raspberry bush was giving me all sorts of heck. I told her I wasn't going to bother her babies. I did go to see them though as they should be starting to feather now. NO chicks in the nest, there were 3 two days ago. Fledged already? Doesn't seem likely. Then I noticed a decapitated partially feathered chick on the ground outside the nest. Effing coon, true to form, ate only the head and neck, even when the entire chick was smaller than the head of a full grown hen.

Time to SSS (at least as far at the residents of this house are concerned). The front of the barn is in full view of D1's bedroom window though she isn't usually up until about 11. I was going to put the sheet over the trap but the coon had pulled half of it into the trap. And I did not get a pleasant greeting from it, quite the contrary of course. I got another piece of sheet from the workshop and put it over the trap. I had to re-attach one end of the handle, the coon had pulled it loose along with the metal plate it goes through.

Carted the coon around the north side of the barn and came back for the .177 pellet rifle hidden up high in the workshop where DD1 can't accidentally find it. I don't know where the best place to shoot a coon is but I placed the first pellet into its forehead. Didn't drop dead like the chuck I dispatched in the trap in the barn alley last summer. Took a further 2 pellets to make it dead and one more to ensure it was well and truly dead. Any suggestions for a different "first shot" location would be appreciated. And no I can't really buy a real gun to do them in. I carted it to the north end of the field where I had noticed a woodchuck tunnel on my return from yesterday's "chuck walk". The male coon is now headfirst in that tunnel with most of its body inside. It will either rot there or fulfill its destiny as food for something else.

Now I'm heading to TSC to get some 5' no climb horse fence to cover the gates between the barns to ensure the next coon can't get through, around or over. I'm going to have to find some way of running a hotwire across the front as well since they are good climbers.

I count myself very lucky that I put the trap back out last night AND that the coon decided to go in for the chicken feed. Had I not, I'm sure the coon would have made its way at least between the barns if not all the way around and in through the alpacas' door. Would have found dead chickens just like @luvmypets. Those boys NEED to learn how to use the double acting door since I no longer have a dog to protect the lower part of the barn and the area I fenced in. The current "weakest links" are those gates up front between the barns and the area on the north end of the barn I fenced and gated before the alpacas arrived. That second one won't be hard to hotwire since the charger is on the inside of the barn on that wall. But I will have to span the gate. No way I can bury a cable under it, not with all the buried rock. Which means I will have to REMEMBER that there is now an actual hot wire there rather than the non hot wire meant to keep the chickens from going over.


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## Mike CHS

I haven't tried it with our pellet rifle but with a 22lr, I try in or just behind the ear, severs the spinal column or hits the brain.  That should work well with your pellet gun.


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## Bruce

Thanks Mike.

Didn't make it out today, waiting for a return call that never came. I did get hotwire about 4' up on the piece of fence on the north side. I used black and yellow stranded for the part that runs just at the top of the gate since it is more visible than smooth metal wire. The charge comes from the south which is the gate hinge side. I put a "Caution electric fence" sign on the gate wire on the far side by the latch. That should, I hope, make sure people remember they now have to remove the gate wire before they can open the gate.

I've told the whole family but most likely I'm the one that will forget and get snapped. No one else spends much of any time out there.


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## Mike CHS

I'm not going to say how many times I have been put on my back side.  It has been quite awhile now but I was sure a slow learner.  The 17k volt one only had to get me once and I remembered that one after that.


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## CntryBoy777

On many animals, the medial line between the ears...angled down towards the throat will take them out fairly quickly. If your pellet gun is a pump, be sure ya pump it to full power for the most damage. Also, if it is in a trap ya can always put it in water for a few minutes....it is Silent and deadly. It is good to know a few places, because ya never know what area will be presented for the best shot.

@Mike CHS I can imagine that certainly gains respect when touched....


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## Bruce

It is a Gamo Bull Whisperer .177 break barrel with inert gas technology (which I gather means cocking it compresses gas rather than a spring so there is less vibration when fired). 17.5 ft/lb at the muzzle. I'm using 10.5g pellets and shooting from just outside the trap. Can't imagine that thing coming at me wounded or not. Really nasty sucker. Read a bunch of "Google found" Q/A on killing a coon with pellet guns. Some said can't be done, others said it takes 10+ shots. Others say it can be done, shot placement important. All in all I don't think I would want to go coon hunting with this pellet gun, they are seriously tough hided and tough skulled critters.

DW spotted an adult chuck out by the pile of beams in front of the barn this evening. Either the one that got a free ride to the west end of the property came back or there is yet another "local". If this one finds the inside of the trap, I'm not going for another long hike. I've hidden the gun down in the barn alley so I don't have to worry about DD1 seeing me carrying it, I just need to move the cage somewhere out of sight. 

Interestingly DW did not ask tonight about the critter she knew was in the trap this morning. All the better. The less I have to "um carried um woods um" the better. No questions means no pertinent facts left out of the answer.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya can always say ya released them from the trap....they don't have to know the Condition of it when ya Released it....


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## Baymule

Good work on the coon. They are mean and nasty killers. At our old house, right in the middle of town, we had coons. I made my chicken coop predator proof. Several times our Great Pyrenees, Paris, "treed" coons in the yard behind us in a tree right up against our back fence. We have them here too, but they never come in where the dogs are.

I am glad I don't have to deal with woodchucks. Durned rabbits are bad enough.....but then we _do_ have feral hogs. Destructive of any and everything.


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## greybeard

Next time you clean and lube your .twotwo, don't forget the filter...........


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## misfitmorgan

Hey Bruce did Premier1 ever get back to you on the shears? We did a hired out shear job yesterday and in talking with the owner of the sheep, his buddy ordered shears from them too this year and they wouldnt work on his sheep and the guy has sheared for a several years so I doubt it is operator error. He sent them back. Maybe they had a defect in a batch of shears. We have Oster Showmaster shears, they work great and were only $280 if i recall right.


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## Bruce

No they did not @misfitmorgan. Quite surprising since customer service in the past has been speedy. Guess I have to call them and return it. Not sure I want them to send a replacement since I have no way to test it until next spring.

Saw 2 little chucks playing in the pile of wood at the south side of the barn. Very near the open trap with chicken feed inside. Once trapped twice shy, I bet the little buggers did come back. Well they have had their 1 chance to make a new life for themselves as has the adult over in the pile of timbers. Of course the trick now it to catch them again. 

@greybeard I don't think there is an air filter on the Gamo. Certainly nothing about it in the MINIMAL owner's manual.


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## misfitmorgan

Is there a reason you can't just shoot the chucks when you see them?


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## Bruce

Well, that might be hard since there are people in this house that would freak if they knew I was intentionally killing them. That is why the air rifle is hidden in the barn. If that wasn't an issue, I would need to have the gun in the house where I could sneak out the back and hit them from a distance of 100' plus since as soon as they hear anyone, they are GONE.

Plus, though I've tried to zero it in inside the upper part of the barn, I've not been very successful. Always seems to hit low and right. I've adjusted the scope's wind and elevation but still, no go. I have read that the scope that comes with the gun (no open sights on it) isn't the best. I've also tried 3 different pellets, always subsonic. I am using the "soft grip" on the gun as described here:
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/04/how-to-shoot-an-airgun-accurately/ since I understand that is required for this type of gun.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> @greybeard I don't think there is an air filter on the Gamo. Certainly nothing about it in the MINIMAL owner's manual.


I wasn't referring to the air rifle or an air filter.
a google search on rifle oil filter will lead the way


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## Bruce

Ah, got it, you weren't "talking" to me


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## Bruce

One young woodchuck "disappeared" today. Trap set again tonight.

I picked up the 5' horse fence today. Supposed to rain a fair bit tomorrow so I don't know that I'll be adding it to the gates right off. Still need to figure a way to get a T post solidly in the ground next to the barn walls. May not be possible if the foundation stones project out the farther down one goes. That is pretty typical for a rubblestone foundation.


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## Mike CHS

I'm not sure what your need is but can you possibly mount 2x4's to the wall in lieu of a t-post.  I had to do that in a couple of places and just stapled sheep and goat panels to that.  In one spot I had to use 3 2x's to get the area I needed to cover.


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## misfitmorgan

Oh i see, i didnt know the others had problems with killing critters. Good luck to you on the catching/"relocating" lol

We did the same thing @Mike CHS, nailed a 2x4 to the side of the barn and stapled the fence to it. Havn't have any issues with it.


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## Bruce

Yeah I expect I'll have to "pad" the barn wall to have somewhere to attach the wire. Will need to use LONG screws since I have to go through whatever I'm padding with, then the shiplap then the original vertical 1" siding before I get to the post which may or may not be in good shape on the outside edge. Barn is really old.

Wind blew the trap shut overnight, I have reset it.


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## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> Oh i see, i didnt know the others had problems with killing critters. Good luck to you on the catching/"relocating" lol


Kind of related, a current news story..a vegan that didn't believe in killing anything faced one of the harsh realities of life--gotta do what ya gotta do:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ns-rabid-raccoon-after-attacks-her/399987001/
*
A rabid raccoon bit into this vegetarian's thumb. So she drowned it in a nearby puddle.
*
_
Rachel Borch, a 21-year-old in Hope, Maine, went for a run in the woods near her home on June 3. She came back barefoot, bleeding and screaming after drowning a rabid raccoon who sunk its teeth into her hand.

Borch shared her harrowing story in great detail with the Portland Press Herald and Bangor Daily News, both accounts laden with grisly elements and incredible quotes from Borch.

"I’ve never killed an animal with my bare hands," Borch told the Daily News. "I’m a vegetarian. It was self-defense.”

Borch left for the run that morning along a familiar, overgrown trail near her house, but not before her brother warned her about a raccoon he'd seen oddly "sulking" in their yard, the Press Herald reported. Sure enough, shortly into her run on the wooded path, Borch and the beast met eyes. 

She recalled to the Press Herald a "ferocious-looking raccoon" who charged at her with teeth bared. Within seconds, it stood at her feet. Borch ripped out her earbuds and dropped her phone, which fell into a nearby puddle.

“Imagine the Tasmanian devil,” she told the Daily News.

She couldn't avoid the raccoon, she told the newspaper; the trail was too narrow. So she succumbed to the reality that she would be bitten. 

The best place, she reasoned, would be her hand: It would leave her relatively mobile and provide her best chance at defense. Borch extended her hands toward the animal, the Press Herald reported. 

It sunk its teeth into her thumb. Borch screamed. The raccoon clawed her arms wildly, its jaw pressed tight. Borch panicked. Then she remembered her phone that sank into the puddle.

Dragging the still-biting animal on her knees toward the water, Borch "pushed its head down into the muck,"  she told the Daily News, until "“its arms sort of of fell to the side, its chest still heaving really slowly.”

Hysterical, she bolted home. Her mother drove her to a medical center, per the Daily News. Her dad and her brother retrieved the dead raccoon, the Press Herald reported, lest another animal become infected by it. 

The raccoon later tested positive for rabies, according to the Daily News, and Borch is receiving the appropriate shots for treatment._


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## Bruce

I can't imagine how someone could hold an adult coon face down in a puddle long enough for it to drown. They are nasty, vicious and very strong. Plus they have a lot of claws and sharp teeth. I guess if you have enough adrenaline many things are possible.


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## Baymule

Vegan flew out the window on that coon. She sure put on her big girl panties and did what she had to do.


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## CntryBoy777

Yeh, 2 handsful of rabid coon can certainly get ya "Motivated" for sure.


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## Bruce

One more young chuck has moved on. Set up the trap over by the timbers to see if the adult chuck would like to move on as well. I also set up the game camera in front of the upper gates to the barn just to see if anything is snooping around at night.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like that trap is being pretty productive for ya. Glad ya are thinning them out. I once found a rat nest and got 10 rats out of it....all were full grown, they were under the slab of concrete under an AC unit for central air....I used a water hose to flush them out....and the 3 dogs I had killed them. I was standing, blocking an escape route and one came my way, I went to kick it back to the dogs and it bit the tip of my shoe.....I kicked it up in the air and it let go....but a dog caught it in the air and it was dead when it hit tbe ground...


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## Mike CHS

I have never been around those things before but I'm amazed at how prolific they are.


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## frustratedearthmother

CntryBoy777 said:


> but a dog caught it in the air and it was dead when it hit tbe ground...


That's a good dog!!


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## Bruce

Yesterday I decided enough was enough with the now 8 week old chicks and Zorra sleeping and pooping in the community nest box. The 2015 chicks were up on the roost at 4 weeks. Zorra had taken them to one of the single boxes at 2 weeks. I guess she didn't think about the "palace" size community box and as the girls got crowded they decided on their own to go up. I nailed a piece of plywood over the openings to the community box. As expected Zorra was fit to be tied when she couldn't get in. It took a fair bit of time and some effort to get them all up on the roost. After awhile Trouble (the cockerel) and either Betty or Veronica went up on the 2' high roost. Another decided to go to the 4' high but then a couple of the older girls decided they needed to come from the far side (ALL the older girls sleep on the north side roosts) and harass them so they all flew down. Put Zorra up, she got down. Around and around. Finally we got 5 of the littles up and protected from the older girls and Zorra went up as well. Of course several of the chicks decided they wanted be the ones to sleep under or next to "mama" so much fussing and jockeying for position occurred. And some needed to get back up on the roost of course. I guess I'll have to block the community box at night for a bit to make sure they don't think last night was a one time thing. 

DD2 and I put up the chicken wire above the rabbit fence on the south side of the garden, still need to get something above the gate (3' high) but attached to it. Then I had her help me replace the 8" bolt hooks on the two 12' gates with 12" hooks. Now I have adjustment distance and don't have the nuts barely on so the latch parts match up 

I started pulling out the insulated wire inside the barn for the prior owner's electric fence. They had their charger partway down the alley and ran 2 directions. I put mine on the north wall so it was close to the start of the fence. I'm going to use the older wire to run around the outside of the small barn from the "end" of the fence I put up last fall to the gates between the barns. While I was doing that I had DD2 scrubbing the dirt out of the alpacas' heated water bucket, not in use since I put up the automatic waterer out on the H-brace for the gate to the area behind the barn. While doing so she was stung by a random wasp, went through her shirt and got her upper rib cage in front . How and why? Who knows. I've not seen a wasp yet this year and couldn't find a nest. Didn't see her again after I sent her in to put Benadryl on it.

Found my chain and 2 comealongs. Been looking for them for a couple of weeks. Forgot that last time I took them out I had them in a big canvas bag so they weren't obvious when I was looking (multiple times) in the 3 places in the barns I knew were the only ones I would put them. In any case, now that I had the short chains I was able to pull the hinge post of the old, rotting short fence that was blocking the upper 12' gate from opening toward the house. Then I had to find something to fill the hole   

Not much but a few things that needed doing got done.


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## Mike CHS

We haves those aggressive red wasps here that seem like their sole purpose in life is to seek out humans to sting.


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## CntryBoy777

Something else that I have noticed about those wasps....their temperment doesn't get any better as the temps rise....they get more aggressive. I know it was a pleasure to not be bundled up and freezing temps while dealing with the fence issues.....


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## Bruce

I took pictures of the animals a couple of days ago. 

You might note the non-professional "do" on the boys. And no I didn't leave the hair on their legs for a "sporty look", I didn't want to get kicked in the head if I bent down far enough to "shear". Neither is remotely interested in having their legs touched. I'm going to have to do so though, their nails probably need to be cut. Can't really tell without picking up their feet which hasn't happened yet.


  

The older hens hanging out under a small tree between the barns


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## Bruce

The "littles" are now 9 weeks old and still hanging with "Mama Zorra"

One of the Exchequer Leghorns (Oreo or the other one) using the new auto-waterer. I want to move it into the barn but need a 25' hose. Welsummers Veronica and Betty. Or Betty and Veronica. Your guess is as good as mine.

  

Zorra and Cassiopeia (EE). An EL, Trill (Barnevelder pullet) and one of the Welsummers hanging out on the edge of the brooder top "stored" until the next time I get chicks
 

Trouble, the Barnevelder cockerel. His comb is as big and as red as Zorra's. He is getting some blue sheen in his feathers but not as brilliant blue as the pictures make it appear. Still no tail, all fuzz under his wings.
 
Spotted 2 young woodchucks 2 days ago in the pile of wood in front of the south end of the barn. I thought there was only 1. There is only 1 remaining as of this morning plus the adult I see out by the beams and trees in front of the north end of the barn. So I THINK I am down to 1 adult, one juvenile ... which is what I would have said 3 days ago


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## greybeard

If you aren't familiar with red wasp's habits, season to season, they don't tolerate cold or even cool temps very well. In winter, around here, the find their way up under the corrugations of metal roofs and huddle in attics or eaves much like honeybees make a cluster ball.
Other places, if there is no structure available, they crawl up under loose bark of stumps. I've seen hundreds fall out of an old stump when I pushed them down in winter. They can't even fly, just walk around a bit, too cold to move much.

When the temps begin to warm up, they slowly start moving around, flying and looking for a place to build a nest and raise another brood. Some place HOT, hotter the better. They like steel, like inside the hollows of farm implements, or inside steel pipes. I have a set of square tube sawhorses I do cutting and welding on and have had to tape up the ends with that alum foil type tape you see holding insulation in place, to keep them from nesting in there. 
Yep, in hotter weather, they're in their preferred environment and are most aggressive during this time. 
Not quite as bad as ground hornet (yellow jackets) but close to it.


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## Mike CHS

The boys have to be more comfortable now with it warming up.


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## Mike CHS

The boys have to be more comfortable now with it warming up.


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## Bruce

Yep!


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## Devonviolet

Mike CHS said:


> We haves those aggressive red wasps here that seem like their sole purpose in life is to seek out humans to sting.


Our red wasps have been out for a while now. Yesterday, DH grabbed a big double handful of loose hay, for the goats. It turned out there was a red wasp in the hay, and he got stung on the palm of his right hand.

Now, red wasp stings are a big deal, when DH gets stung!  His hand swells up so big & tight he can't use it for at least a week - maybe more.  The hot, red swelling goes up his arm, to his elbow. In the past, the Benadryl only took the edge off the intense itching!  Irritatingly, we never remember to use it until the itching gets bad. 

This time, I sent him in the house to take a Benadryl immediately & apply ice. I know Benadryl puts him down for the count. So, I suggested he take a nap. 3 hours later he woke up groggy. But, the amazing thing was, there was no swelling or itching. Today, the same thing!   

AMAZING!!!


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## OneFineAcre

I was getting in a deer stand one time in Dec that no one had hunted in a while.
It had a canvas cover over the opening that was rolled up.
I rolled it down and red wasps fell out of it all over me.
I fell about 7 or 8 feet and landed flat on my back.  Fortunately the stand was kind of straddling a ditch bank and it the ground was soft.
Left an imprint of my outline, kind of like how they chalk mark the body outline at a crime scene.  Lucky I wasn't killed.


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## Devonviolet

Wow! That would have freaked me out!!!  It sounds like a nightmare!  It reminds me of the time my ankle gave way, at the top of the stair.  I fell from the top to the bottom, ending up on my back, with my knees going over my head. It was kind of strange, because it felt like slow motion. I was in a LOT of pain for about a week!  Those are the kinds of experiences you never want to repeat!!!


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## misfitmorgan

@Bruce I think the boys look excellent....esp for using scissors to "shear". I don't think we have red wasps up here just lots and lots of yellow jackets, bald face hornets, mud daubers, blue winged wasp, and several other wasps/hornets. i hate them all!


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## Bruce

No big happenings. I have the T-Posts in for my bird excluder hoop from the blueberries though I have only 2 cattle panels and have to wait until TSC gets more in next week (I hope). Once they are all in, I'll need to cover them with chicken wire. 

Finally planted some broccoli (8) and cabbage (4) seeds today. 

Found another hose and moved the chickens' new auto waterer into the barn. The hose leaked some right at the male end so I went to Wally World and got a "repair" thing. Got home, cut off the end of the hose and ... it is a 1/2" hose, the repair thing is for 5/8.  It was the only one they had. I will see if Lowes has a 1/2" male repair thing tomorrow since I have to go down that way.


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## frustratedearthmother

Measure twice - cut once! 

Been there done that.... sigh.


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## CntryBoy777

I for one, absolutely and most positively, have a very strong Dislike for wasps....any Kind or Color. However, I really like the dirt daubers....there are 2 different kinds here, the common black&yellow and the dark blue ones with the blue wings. They kill insects and wasps. There is a smaller wasp that I've always known as a "Guinea Wasp", it is brown with a band or 2 of creme or yellow color to it on their tail section. They are smaller than the dark red w/black tail wasps, but they attack in a swarm. It is because of these that my foot sustained the injury that ended my ability to run or walk properly. I take great pleasure in punishing them by any means possible.
As far as the hose goes Bruce, I can empathize with ya on those kinds of things.....I seem to experience that somewhat regularly too.....


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## misfitmorgan

If you ever get stung by those blue winged/bodied mud daubers you will understand why i hate them. About one of the worst stings ever, it does take a lot more then a normal wasp for them to sting though so there is that.

That is why all hoses on our farm are 5/8" we went thru the same thing lol.


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## Bruce

Sadly I didn't even think of the possibility that I had more than one size hose. I'm sure I've had this one for many, many years. I would have done a double take if they had multiple sizes. Probably would have bought nothing and come home to measure.


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## Bruce

To the best of my knowledge, now down to 1 woodchuck - adult.


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## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> I for one, absolutely and most positively, have a very strong Dislike for wasps....any Kind or Color. However, I really like the dirt daubers....



I've turned on too many electric motors and found the rotor locked up because of dauber nests. Turned on the fan I have mounted in the rafters of my shop last year and thought it was going to shake itself to death because of the imbalance caused by dauber nests on a couple of the blades. Had one build a nest on the pulley of my lawn tractor and when I engaged the deck belt, it slung right off.


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## lcertuche

We have red wasp and mud daubers nests on our front porch and our back porch. Wasp spray just ain't cutting it!


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## Bruce

Got the ground wire for the electric fence run through the PVC pipe and buried under the two 12' gates.

I was trimming under the low hot wires on the north fence yesterday, came across the snapping turtle! On the WRONG side of the fence!!! Since the inside of the fence has 2x4 welded wire (to keep the chickens away from the hotwire) the only way I can think the turtle got from the pond (ASSUMING it is the same turtle, seen only twice before) is because the fence straddles one of the post holes I dug last year and hit water. The hole and the turtle shell seem to be about the same size, around 12" - 14".

They are STILL filled with water, it doesn't perk AT ALL through the clay and it keeps raining. I saw the turtle in the deep grass and it headed for the water filled hole. At one point it looked like it was trying to go back toward the pond but it's shell got trapped on the bottom of the welded wire fence. I went to get a shovel to make a taper on the edge of the hole on the inside. Saw the wife, she and DD1 came out to see the turtle. Wouldn't you know we couldn't find it. But I THINK it was still sunk down in the water. I poked around with the non working end of the shovel. What I ran the handle across seemed domed and I THINK changed position. No ledge is going to do that and the ledge is fairly flat. Of course I could be wrong about all that and the turtle went who knows where.

Sent an email to Meyer last night now that I am in the 10-18 week "mis-sexing notification" period. Trouble was clearly a boy at 3 weeks. Even more so now at 10 weeks with a comb and wattles that rival those of the laying hens. He still doesn't have much for tail feathers.

I got a reply today that said I would be credited or refunded the selling price of the pullet I should have gotten. That is what their catalog says but online it says they refund the difference between pullet and cockerel price. The catalog says the website is the "accurate" information since catalogs can change so I was expecting only the difference. Thanks Meyer!

You can't tell but the 2 birds next to him at the feeder are the Welsummers Betty and Veronica.


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## CntryBoy777

Well Bruce if ya need some snappers I could always send a few from the pond to ya....we have Plenty....along with some red ears....


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## Mike CHS

Sounds like Meyers went a step beyond. Good for them.


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## Bruce

The pond had some quantity of a tall plant (*) a couple of years ago, more last year. I pulled some out last summer when the pond was fairly low. This year there is easily 400% more than last year. Taking over the pond. I really don't need a swamp turning into a meadow! Spent about 1.5 hours (wearing chest waders) with a garden fork pulling some of it out. In many cases the shoot just broke off yielding few if any roots. They will just grow back  It would have been somewhat easier if the pond weren't full. It isn't deep, maybe 2.5' at most in that area. Deep enough I can't dig up the runners though.

After that fun job I pulled the rest of the crappy old fence on the north side of the pond and used the string trimmer to cut the vegetation that had been growing on both sides of it. If the alpacas don't mind getting their feet wet, the can now easily walk around the pond. 

After that I looked like the opposite of @CntryBoy777, the bottom half of my shirt was soaked in sweat. Maybe I should have taken the waders off for job # 2 !!! But I knew it would be wet so I figured better to not be wearing my sneakers. Took shower number 2 of the day, rinsed out the socks, shorts and shirt in the shower at the same time (yes I had taken them off). I think I lost 5 pounds today. All water weight I'm sure and I will weigh the same tomorrow morning as I did this morning.  

Send DW out to snack the birds and alpacas and close up the barn while I was making dinner (tacos). She didn't come back for a long time. DD1 finished eating and went out to relieve DW (I thought). They didn't come back for some time. When they did come back the reason for the long time was that the littles decided they wanted to sleep in the barn alley. They have been picked on since Zorra kicked them to the curb last week. She used to be their protector on the roost, now she is one of the adults giving them grief . And apparently a couple of the littles thought they might decide to sleep outside the barn  Talk about NOT SAFE. So the big delay was getting them all in the coop and closing the auto door. I had not thought to block off the community nest box earlier and I bet that is where they are sleeping again tonight. They went back to that when Zorra quit them so I've been nailing a board across it at night.

* no idea what it is but it doesn't "flower", not a cattail. Grows several feet out of the water and has thick (like 2" thick) hollow "runners" from which new shoots emerge.


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## CntryBoy777

It kinda sounds like hydrilia (sp?).....if it is it is some pretty difficult stuff the get rid of....some people here fertilize the water to control some weeds and algae. I would recommend some carp to ya, but don't think the temps there with such a shallow water level would sustain their life.


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## Bruce

No, it looks like cattails, but hasn't ever put out the brown furry "pod"
Like this picture I found


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## Baymule

Looks like cat tails or "rushes" as they were called back a few centuries ago.


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## Bruce

Tried something different in the coop last night.

I put the littles in the "integration" coop - next stall over from the real coop. It has been predator proofed (other than against stoats) since the !@$#% coon killed Fae in there last summer. There was a saddle blanket (I think) rack with a 1.5" round pole above it nailed to 2 boards (came with the barn) that I laid ladder like against the wall. A couple of the girls tried it but didn't seem happy. I took a 3" round rail and laid it against a convenient block of wood on the outside wall and through the rungs of the rack. It was about 2.5' off the ground. OK, some got on that but 3 kept trying to get up and sit on the wall. Could have too if the plywood didn't stick up a couple of inches above the top of the stud wall. So I got this thing (came with the barn) that I think is a movable saddle "pole". It has a metal hook near one end and is about 2.5' long. The wood is about 3" and sorta square with rounded edges. I stuck the hook through the 2x4 wire on the front of the coop near the corner and rested the other end on the wall spanning the corner. OK! 3 girls got on it. Then 4. There is only room for 3. Then # 5 tried 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Then I moved the 8' long 3" rail up to the top of the wall on the "real coop" side and stuck the other end through the wire in front. Had to pick up a couple of kids off the floor, they can't fly to 4' yet. 

They eventually settled, giving up thinking more than 3 could fit on the first "roost" in the corner. Of course they now had to wait for me to let them out in the morning. There is no chicken door in that "coop", automatic or otherwise. As often as I've mentioned on BYC that chickens want to be as high as they can get, I was surprised they couldn't deal with the 2.5' high rail. I guess they want to be in the nest boxes, not harassed, or as high as they can get. Last night the littles were at 4' high, same as the girls in the real coop and no more than about 2' from the closest big girls but they couldn't be harassed.

I went out at 6:30 to release the littles, had to be early since there is no water in their "night coop". Everyone was fine, don't know if they were "happier" or slept better not having to deal with the older girls. I wonder when Trouble will come into his own and take charge to protect his "sisters". He's still just as nervous as they are around the hens.


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## Bruce

In the 5 years I've had chickens I've come to believe chickens eat what they need when they need it. I've never seen a pullet eat out of the oyster shell container until a few weeks before they start laying. It is one of the signs they are getting close along with reddening of the comb, wattles, face and checking out the nest boxes. I've thought this whole business of not feeding layer to growing pullets (since the older girls would normally be eating it in the absence of chicks) is nonsense since the 2015 girls started eating the layer in the big feeder at 2 weeks, even though they had 24x7 access to higher protein, lower calcium chick starter. No adverse effect as far as I could tell. They, along with the layers, free ranged all day. I had to dump the rest of the chick starter into the bin of layer feed.

Well guess who was eating OS this morning? Yes TROUBLE!  
- The starter is 20% protein, calcium between .9 and 1.2%. 
- The grower/finisher is 15%, calcium .85% - 1.05%
- The layer is 16.5% and calcium 3.7% - 4.5%. 

The entire flock is eating grower/finisher now, free range all day so they eat whatever "natural" foods they want along with their feed and Trouble is supplementing his diet with pure oyster shell. One of the pullets looked in the bin while he was eating OS but did not partake. Tell me a growing cockerel doesn't need more calcium to make those bones! He'll have to keep doing it for a bit since I still have over 50# of grower/finisher. Plus those "crumblets" are much smaller than the layer pellets and gets broken down to wasted "feed dust". 

Now ... how the extra calcium in the layer formulation will affect him once he is an adult ... don't know. They don't have the option of designing their own diet between about Nov and April. And probably not much in the way of bugs after Sept.


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## CntryBoy777

I often wonder about those kind of things, and then think back to about 30-50yrs ago when they didn't have these highly developed diets and pellets and the chickens seemed just fine....then, back to the depression times and people were certainly raising chickens back then, too. It makes a person like me wonder just how much of the stuff is just "Marketing Practices"....and what matters and are concerns today are just manufactured so ya will pay $$ for their product, because they say it is better and healthier.


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## Bruce

You mean like the companies that put something in their feed to dye the yolks that nice dark yellow/orange color common to hens that free range and eat a big variety of things as opposed to the insipid pale yellow of yolks from a battery hen?


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## Baymule

Herbert Hoover promised a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage during the presidential campaign of 1928. then the stock market crashed in 1929 and that promise didn't come true. There were people raising chickens during the depression, but chicken was still a pretty special meal. People resorted to eating armadillos which were nicknamed "Hoover Hogs". My Daddy told me that his Mother used feed sack material to make clothing and quilts. She once sent him to buy hen scratch and it had to be in a particular fabric so she could finish a quilt. Chickens didn't get the feed then that they do today. I think the feed today has more nutrients and is better for the chickens than just scratch grains. I would imagine that Depression chickens could be a scrawny bird.


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## Mike CHS

When I was a young fellow our chickens were fed the old fashioned way which then was scratch and free range and any scraps we wound up with from hunting or fishing.  They were nothing like the chickens we are raising now with the modern foods but they also get a lot of fresh veggies and fruit.


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## Bruce

Picked enough shell peas yesterday for dinner. Took all the useable leaves off the bolting spinach today. Planted about 18" of row. I know it is probably early for the "fall crop" but I figure if I plant some every Saturday, we can use the earlier plants as "baby spinach" before they get close to big enough to bolt.

Cucumber beetles decimating the Red Kuri, Winternut and Yellow Crookneck squash plants. I don't know if there is something sacrificial I could plant nearby that they would like better. Don't seem to be doing too much damage to the zucchini but it was a bigger plant to start. Maybe the leaves are too tough for them. Have several 4-5" long zukes and plenty more flowers.


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## Devonviolet

OH, I'm sorry to hear about the cucumber beetles getting your squashes.  We LOVE Red Kuri Squash and I'm planning to plant it - eventually - when we can finally get our garden in. I'm not sure what to spray, to get rid of the beetles.  

When we had a garden in PA, we had masses of Mexican Bean Beetles.  We managed better than others, at the community gardens, because we squished every one that we saw - and we are talking THOUSANDS!  They are yellow and soft. ICK!  Eventually, we had less and less.


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## Mike CHS

I haven't had them although Japanese Beetles are keeping us busy. I quit being organic when they arrive and use Malathion on them directly as I see them.  I try to avoid areas that bees are going around but they can destroy plants in short order.


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## Bruce

The Japanese Beetles haven't been bad this year (knocking on wood it is true all season!). I have 2 traps (metal cans, not bags. They can't chew through the can  ) that I can put out AWAY from the garden when they do show up. Have to buy the pheromone things for them though or the JB's won't even notice the trap. A bucket of water with some soap is their next move when the can gets full.


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## Mike CHS

I haven't done it here because I don't have Crepe Myrtle trees (yet) but I found in SC at least the Myrtles were the favorite chow for the beetles.  I used a systemic pesticide drench on the Crepe Myrtles in real early spring and the Beetles were never a problem in garden since they died on the Myrtles.


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## Bruce

Bought a 10' PT 2x4 on Friday. Cut it in half and today attached one to the little barn wall and one to the big barn. Got a piece of 5' high horse fence "stapled" to the one on the little barn and wired to the 2 "hinge" brackets on the 2" metal post. Need to get some sort of "bracket" I can screw over the fence and into the post to properly hold it in place. Big improvement over the mess of pieces of different kinds of fence that was there. Cut the piece that will be attached to the big barn. Will attach that tomorrow. It rained on and off all day. Not real conducive to getting work done outside. Nothing like the quantity of water @Latestarter reported though.


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## Latestarter

Glad you were able to at least get the project started. That's the hardest part of any project


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## CntryBoy777

I don't know how elaberate, or cheap ya wish to go....but, ya can groove a few 2x4 pcs and screw them in to hold and support it.....


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## Bruce

That would certainly be cheaper than some sort of strap for each wire Fred. I'll ponder it. I have the tools. I could rip the wood down to maybe 1/2" and "channel" that for the wires. Then I would only need a few screws into the metal post instead of 2 for each strap for each wire. This isn't stretched fence, it is only 4' on one side, 3' on the other AND it has to be such that the gate side doesn't stick out much past the edge of the posts or the gates can't open.

If I paint the wood shiny black it would be nearly invisible on the shiny black posts. I'm thinking of painting the horse fence so it "blends in" with the gates since the gates look sorta fancy being shiny and all. These are the "vertical tube" gates that are up close to the house, usually not a "farm" gate but a residential one. They were the only ones I could find that were 5' high and ~3' wide.


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## Bruce

ALMOST done with the new horse fence on either side of the upper gates between the barns. Just need to get 8 or 10 1.25" screws I can put into the metal posts.

Left gate is open though usually that one is stationary, the right one is used 99% of the time unless I need to get the garden tractor down there.


The mess of fencing that was on either side of the posts before. The right side was 2x3 welded wire and didn't look too bad though it was on a 1/2" square metal post stuck as close to the big barn as I could get it. Not real structural. The left side was a mess of 2x3 welded and some chicken wire which managed to keep the chickens in but Merlin found it and came out. So I cobbled together a "fix" using a big piece of sheep and goat. Of course the chickens can get through that so I had to shove all the other fencing back in.


New 2x4 knotted horse fence 5' tall. I had a 2x2 piece of cedar that helped support a bean trellis at one time. I cut the cedar in half then ran it through the planer until it was 3/4" x 1 1/4" true. Marked where the wires hit and cut 1/8" x 1/4" deep grooves with the miter saw. Picture 1, Wire in grooves. Picture 2 Wood against post. Picture 3 View of the right side from the house side of the gate. Added benefit of this design is that the wood supports the part of the fencing that is taller than the post.
  

Great idea @CntryBoy777 , glad I thought of it


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## CntryBoy777

....and before ya know it @Bruce it'll be piling up on top of the ground all over the place.....


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## CntryBoy777

Just glad it worked out....looks Great, too!!...


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## Bruce

http://www.wcax.com/story/35883312/goats-stolen-in-randolph

Heard about this on VPR this morning! I don't know where @goats&moregoats lives, but I think it is west, not in Randolph. Sure hope they are found and returned.


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## Baymule

We are all a bunch of lunatics--out building fence in the heat!


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## Bruce

Not meeeeee!! I did mine in the near or below freezing temps, rain and snow. 
Oh wait, that means we are all lunatics. 

Lazy butt chickens, only 3 eggs today. From 11 laying age hens though I didn't expect anything from Angel since she just got out of the broody buster this morning.


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## CntryBoy777

Well, at least 3 were thinking of ya today....


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## Bruce

7 eggs today, one was a super thin shell from Yue. She laid it in the coop on her way to the nest box, then went in the nest box. There was some blood on the egg. I think her "internals" are giving out and she won't be happy and relatively healthy for a whole lot longer.

Large male chuck took a field trip from the front of the barn to the woods this morning. Woodchuck poop smells  Now to find out if the one that has been seen on the south side of the house is spotted again. I hadn't seen the "barn chuck" for 3 days after I put the trap in front of the "access port" he was using to get into the barn until this morning when he was in the trap. D2 had seen the "other one" during that time. MAYBE it is the same chuck. Wouldn't THAT be nice! In any case, I think I am back down to 1 chuck max by the house and barns.

Scared up a fawn  in a fairly damp area on my way through the field. Not sure why mama would have it stay there since there is plenty of tall grass/weeds on dry ground. Also saw several deer bed down spots.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure hope ya get all of them. Sorry to hear about Yue....she must be a pretty good hen....she felt bad about yesterday and wanted ya to know she was trying for ya....hope she hangs in there for some time to come.


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## Latestarter

Glad to hear you're finally getting that chuck population under control. Of course once you've finished eradicating them, you'll need to find something else to rant and rave about  If you're anything like me, I'm sure you'll find something right quick


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## Bruce

Yep, there is always something, unless you are @CntryBoy777 who seems to keep a positive attitude regardless.


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## Bruce

SON OF A B!!!! Just saw a BIG woodchuck go into the barn in the same place as I had the trap. And no it isn't the same one I caught yesterday. That one was not capable of self motivation (or anything else) when it got to the woods.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya could always give it lack of "Motivation" before it gets in the trap too....just saying.....


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## Latestarter

He can't though... there are some animal rights activists that he has to "live with" so in order to preemptively motivate, he'd have to be completely out of sight of the house and all other occupants, and all other occupants would have to be well out of sight or hearing range of him and the chuck.


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## Bruce

Yep. Plus even if I could get the .177 pellet rifle to shoot accurately, I don't think it has the power to take a chuck down at a distance. Unless maybe I hit it in the heart. Which is unlikely, I don't seem to be real steady.

As it is I don't put the trap out on Saturday nights since DW doesn't work on Sundays. If I catch something the other 6 days, I have to take it out between the barns to give it that "lack of motivation" before 9 AM when DD2 drags out of bed. DD1 usually doesn't get up until 11ish but if she goes to the skating rink, she is up about 8 AM so I have to know that the night before. In any case, once there is "lack of motivation" I have to go through the alley in the big barn to the north side where I can go through the field to the woods totally out of sight of the house. STS (T stands for toss  )


Forgot to mention, woke up at 3 AM to the sound of coyotes howling. At first I thought it was DW's radio alarm, then remembered it was Sunday so that wouldn't be set. Woke up enough to recognize it wasn't that sort of music. Small pack, maybe 3-5 based on the voices. The unnerving part is they were clearly close. Sounded like they were between the neighbor's houses across the road, probably back at the tree line or just inside. Sound does carry funny sometimes but my guess is 200 yards from my house.


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## Bruce

Chuck in the trap this morning, felt sorry for this girl. Even when she kept her body was still she kept moving her head around a lot, made it really hard to hit the center of that "ear to opposite eye" X. Took 6 shots, some were "glancing blows" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





. I don't get any enjoyment from killing them, I would prefer it be 1 shot and done.


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## CntryBoy777

I understand the feeling, but it is very difficult to do in reality, especially when they are moving and with such a small projectile. I have the same difficulty with the 22, cause at the distance I shoot from just hitting any mark is tough without a scope and unsteady hands. That is 1 reason for wanting the 30-30....better knockdown and takeout.....and, I'll put a scope on it.


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## misfitmorgan

One shot is always the best but it doesnt always happen that way. After two shots DH gets fed up and takes the gun from whoever has it and puts the critter down himself. As you might imagine that starts a lot of fights because the one who couldnt get it killed is always butt hurt and there was something wrong with the gun etc...

I've only ever seen DH take one shot to put any critter down but his guns are a lot bigger so i imagine its easier.

Did i ever mention the time my Ex-hubbs killed a porcupine with a sword? That was interesting and terrifying and horrifying all at once.


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## misfitmorgan

opps forgot to say...couldnt you put stockings over the squashes or are they eating all the leaves off?


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## Bruce

Well, IMO, if you have a proper varmint killing gun, it really shouldn't take more than 2 should it?? I would expect a single shot would do it most of the time especially at super close range. 

I'm sure your DH is using a higher powered weapon with larger projectiles. I suspect the first shot would have done it if I were using something bigger, it is nearly point blank, muzzle is just outside the trap. In fact, the first time I used it for this purpose last summer it was a 1 shot kill. No motion other than rear up for 1/2 second, then it dropped and I expected that was normal. Guess I got lucky ONCE. Of course for all I know the pellet is tapping the wire on the trap on the way by and deflecting some as well. Can't really sight down the barrel real well with the scope in the way. I suspect a pistol of some sort would really be a better option in this scenario.

If you are talking about the cucumber beetles, they munched the leaves. The yellow crookneck survived that because the beetles showed up after they had a bit of size on them. The Winternuts as well, though just barely, they were smaller. The Red Kuri, not so lucky,


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## misfitmorgan

Sorry the squash isnt doing well, always sucks.

Yeah thats what i was saying the higher power guns dont have a whole lot of excuse to take more then 2 shots. 

DH uses a handgun for pigs, some john wayne looking hangun that takes some really big bullets but every pig i've seen/heard him kill has been one shot and dropped he then gets over to them quick and cuts the arteries on either side of their neck so they will bleed out quickly. He has several rifles but says the handgun works the best for closer range.

The pellets could very well be hitting the wire and losing some of the oomph.


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## Bruce

Have a weird one today, maybe someone familiar with electric fences like @greybeard has an idea.

Went for a 4 AM bathroom trip and could hear the fence snapping. Looked out the bathroom door and could see it flashing out near the garden or beyond. Couldn't tell in the dark. Pretty loud, bright blue snap. Went out at 6:30 to let the chickens out and snack the alpacas and chickens. First I went to the garden to see what plant had gotten too tall and the fence kindly snapped for me. Right at a T-post. I can't get REAL close to the fence from that side but clearly there was no plant anywhere near it. Heavy dew overnight and there was a spiderweb that went between the top hot wire, the ground wire below it and I THINK also connected some to the T-post. When I was done with the chickens I went around the other side of the fence. It was no longer snapping. Is it possible that the dew on the web could have been causing the hot wire to ground to the T-post?? The wire on the insulator was no where near the T-post.


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## Bruce

I'm getting a bit nervous about Oreo. 13 weeks, comb and wattles. Mint isn't nearly so far along from that POV. The Meyer catalog says Exchequer Leghorns mature "very early". I guess I have to hope Oreo is VERY early! I didn't need one rooster let alone two.


   

Alpacas and young chickens. No, I have not seen any chickens sitting on the boys  I worry just a bit about the chickens. The boys don't seem to care that they have company but if the boys spook, like if I go in their area for whatever reason, they aren't looking at the ground to see if there is anything underfoot. 
  

Trouble has started prepping for his first crow. He doesn't do it often enough to get it on film with sound. I've actually not SEEN him when he does it so I don't know if he postures and makes his new noise or it just comes out instead of his "old" voice. He is also walking more upright than in the past. He is with Trill, the other Barnevelder that IS a pullet. She's working on a juvenile moult, no more tail.


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## CntryBoy777

They seem to be coming right along....they do grow quickly. Have ya thought about selling the roos?


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## Bruce

That would depend on if we could find someone who would keep, not eat, the roos. And agree to do so without a  behind the back. DD1 has an issue with ANYONE eating an animal that grew up here. In fact she would prefer no one eat animals. She doesn't give us static about eating animals raised by others because she knows that would be a lost cause.


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## Bruce

New start to an old line:
"Dumb Zorra is SO dumb"

She's sitting on infertile and plastic eggs for the second time this year. Shoved her in the broody buster in the "littles" coop this evening. I would guess she'll be there at least 3 days which means no more eggs from her for something over a week minimum. I was suspicious, she was doing some "Mrs Hyde" neck flaring the last couple of days and making the "I'm a broody hen" clucks. 

Trouble is making more "teenage boy" sounds. No actual attempt yet to "cock-a-doodle-do", at least not that I've heard.


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## CntryBoy777

Here's another old line for ya...."It's not nice to Fool mother nature".....even fixed animals go into faux estrus....


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## Bruce

New start to an old line:
"Dumb Nuit is SO dumb"


She's sitting on infertile and plastic eggs, she didn't go broody last year. Shoved her in the broody buster with Zorra. Zorra is 5 Y/O, Nuit 2 Y/O.

That leaves me with 6 of 11 hens that might lay. The 2 Favs have quit and if Yue lays, it is a very thin shelled egg that is likely broken by the time I see it. Persephone is the only 5 Y/O still laying reliably though Zorra did start back up after kicking the kids to the curb.

Stopped at Advance Auto parts today. Did a double take on a license plate on a car there. Jalisco Mexico! Never have seen a Mexico plate up here. Probably way more common for you folks in TX though even then Jalisco is still are pretty distant place, 1K miles as the crow flies. We do OCCASIONALLY see AK and HI plates. REALLY long drive for those from HI


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## greybeard

I have very very rarely seen a Mexico licensed vehicle here in Texas, except in the border towns.  Maybe 1 or 2 in my lifetime.


Bruce said:


> First I went to the garden to see what plant had gotten too tall and the fence kindly snapped for me. Right at a T-post. I can't get REAL close to the fence from that side but clearly there was no plant anywhere near it. Heavy dew overnight and there was a spiderweb that went between the top hot wire, the ground wire below it and I THINK also connected some to the T-post. When I was done with the chickens I went around the other side of the fence. It was no longer snapping. Is it possible that the dew on the web could have been causing the hot wire to ground to the T-post?? The wire on the insulator was no where near the T-post


It's more than possible, it's probable. Remember, electrons always travel on the exterior surface of any conductor, even copper and steel, but certainly on the outside of a water laden surface, including insulators and spider webs. This is important because it will explain something later on. *

10,000 volts will jump a dry air gap of about 1/8". Your fence is probably running somewhere between 4,000 and 8,000 volts, so it normally wouldn't be able to bridge a dry air gap 1/8", but the humidity plays a big part in air gaps and voltage entanglements. So does the chemical and elemental makeup of the air. We think of air as being mostly oxygen and nitrogen, but there are all kinds of other elements and chemicals in it and many of them have free electrons in the outer orbits of their atoms that can be knocked out to the next atom..meaning they are conductive.Add water to that in the form of humidity and air becomes a good conductor, but only in a relatively and narrowly confined path. 

Once it does travel along that tiny wet string one time, it  does so more easily each successive pulse because the air around the web is now ionized. It's the current travelling thru that ionized air and along the tiny strand of web that you see making the 'spark'. 

On a wet morning when dew is heavy and covers everything, or a rainy day, your fence is also bleeding voltage off at every insulator, down the wet tee post and along the damp ground to the ground rod. 
Why don't you see it all along the fence and hear the snap-crackle-pop like you did at the spider web?

* A 12 ga wire is about 3/32" or  0.099".  A spider's web is  1/10 the diameter of a human hair. Compared to the web strand diameter, the wire is quite large. The insulator, tho, is HUGE in comparison, and since electrons predominantly move along the outside of any conductor (or conductive surface) there is plenty of surface area on that wet conductor for the electrons to spread out and move to the tee post. 
Because the web strand is so tiny tho, it offers very little surface area for the electrons to move along--they're concentrated in a very small area, and because they are, they are also able to ionize the air immediately surrounding the strand.

You are very lucky to have seen this. In a short period of time, the heat from the spark evaporates the moisture on the strand and it no longer is able to conduct, or it simply gets burned as the moisture evaporates. Once it does, the main pathway collapses and the air is no longer ionized either.


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## babsbag

I have my fence snap on cobwebs all of the time. I have also had it snap on a trail of ants. The ants were being killed and other ants were crawling right over them and making the connection and being electrocuted too. It was basically a chain of dead ants that live ants were using as a bridge. It was a strange site. 

I use poly wire and when I need to splice it I just tie a knot and weave the ends together. I have found that at times even the knots will snap if they get dusty.


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## greybeard

Ants are notorious for getting electrocuted in any number of ways. They play havoc in many of the mechanical well pump switches. Dead dry ants build up between the contacts and won't let them close=no water.

(I've also seen big rafts of them in flood areas. You sure don't want to wade off into a raft of them if they are fire ants. They'll swarm up onto anything solid the raft bumps against.)


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> You are very lucky to have seen this.


Thanks for the explanation @greybeard. Those "wire to ground rod (T-post)" snaps are LOUD. I recently saw something similar with a small piece of vegetation that fried on a hot wire then dropped onto a brace wire. Hardly any vegetation left but enough to span that gap with SNAP SNAP SNAP resulting. Time to FIND time to get out there and whack the weeds growing near the north fence line. And maybe put a bit of foam over the brace wire where it passes near the hot wire, it is probably only a 1/2" gap.


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## Mike CHS

I thought about this thread this morning while trying to find one of those SNAPS.  I would here a loud snap and then nothing else.  Stood there a bit and got another then nothing.  I walked the fence for several minutes and could find nothing.  It finally did a SNAP right at a T-post that I was standing in front of. I looked around the post and saw nothing obvious then looked closer at the insulator and saw a dead red wasp that had evidently got fried touching the hot wire and the t-post at the same time.  He was separated at it's middle (thorax?) and the pulse would occasionally put the body parts together and then SNAP.

Knocked it off and nothing else since then.


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## CntryBoy777

If it kills red wasp, then I may just have to look at putting some up here.....


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## Bruce

Those wire to T-post arcs are LOUD aren't they!


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## Mike CHS

They are loud.  I could here it when I first stepped out and the arc was probably 75' away.


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## Bruce

I took a video of the "youngsters" now 14.5 weeks old. The brown "river" is the alpacas' poop pile, they keep moving its edge and the chickens scratch in the dry stuff. Trouble is a lot bigger than Oreo and Mint, the Exchequer Leghorns.


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## babsbag

I saw a couple of arcs last night but it was too dark to go an investigate. I am pretty sure it is cobwebs and dust as it is at a knot. I have had lizards and toads get electrocuted and they arc pretty good too.


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## babsbag

My young chickens (that I hatched to sell and no one bought) have taken to living in the buck pen scratching up all kind of fly larvae. While I love the fact that they are on fly patrol it sure does raise to odor level out there, constantly smells like a freshly scraped pen.


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## CntryBoy777

Looks like they are coming along just fine and are enjoying their exploring. Have ya heard the intermitent crowing yet?


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## Bruce

Yep. At first he sounded like the tail end of "Putting on the Ritz" from Young Frankenstein, just one "word". Then he put a few together but the "words" were not drawn out at all. I've since heard a few that are more like a crow. But he's still working to perfect it and doesn't sound off with frequency. On my side is the fact that it is getting light later so maybe by the time he does decide he needs to announce the start of the day, DW will already be up. Her alarm is at 5:10 or 5:20 depending on if she is taking a shower.


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## Latestarter

In my experience, the "start of the day" for roosters is whenever they get it in their mind to voice their thoughts... Mine never worked according to the clock, and neither did those around me there (CO) or those next door here (a LOT of them). Sometimes they scream all night, other times all day, still others, not at all.


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## Bruce

I'm hoping for the "not at all" version  Though the rooster that lives across and down the road does crow so Trouble might feel the need to "compete". Hopefully not but if he does and it is call and response, the one across the road doesn't seem to get up real early. 

In other news DD1 & DD2 saw a small woodchuck (small enough to get through the sheep and goat fence) in the garden a few days ago. So I'm not rid of the varmints. Went out to cut a couple of too big zucchini yesterday. They and the yellow crookneck squash are growing on a 2 1/2' tall mound of dirt and grass that I pulled out to make the garden last year. There is now a woodchuck tunnel under it and the few tiny beans that were on the pitiful plants are gone.


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## Mike CHS

It would be time to declare war on 'chucks but I think you have already done that.


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## mysunwolf

So about getting a dog...


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## Mike CHS

I haven't caught or shot any but the chucks aren't too smart when it comes to dogs.  There was another that tunneled under the fence yesterday.  I didn't see how she got it but there was a bunch of digging in one spot and I found the carcass this afternoon when I was trimming fence line.  She didn't eat it but evidently she used it as a chew toy.


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## CntryBoy777

Ours crow from 5am on, and with every hen cackle....they Cackle louder. If they see me outside close by they will crow too.....but hey, that's just part of being in the country and sure beats the honking of horns and the noises of the City. I much rather hear the animals.....


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## Bruce

Good dog Maisy!

@mysunwolf That ship has sailed.

Trouble crowed a real crow (though the notes were real extended) this morning when I went to let the younger set out of their coop. After that he was doing his imitation of a goose. At the moment that seems to be his "normal" voice. Honk honk honk


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## mysunwolf

Sorry @Bruce, hadn't caught up on that bit yet  wish it had worked out for the better.


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## Bruce

Me too  But thanks for reading through.


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## Bruce

Got 1 post put in for the deck (*). Had DD2 help with keeping the post plum while I drilled into the platform. Given that worked as planned, I drilled the 2 holes in each of the other 6 posts so they are ready for installation tomorrow. The post that was put in is the far outside corner. 

Lovely deck isn't it?? Originally there was a small deck just behind the door on the right, it now goes to the downstairs bathroom. We figured it would be better to have wet people walking outside into the bathroom rather than traipsing through the house. 



 

The thing in the lower right corner is the reel for the pool solar cover. It has had new webbing attached and is reinstalled on the pool which got a new liner a couple of weeks ago. I don't use the pool, nothing more than a wading pool for adults. But the wife uses it so there goes a ton of money to get a new liner. And I get to keep the pool clean for her.

 

Straight behind the pool is the garden. I went out late this afternoon to see if the woodchuck was using the tunnel under the squash. Didn't even get to the gate when I heard it scurrying and headed in that direction. The trap is now baited with chicken feed and positioned right outside the tunnel. I hope the little b@5tard is in there tomorrow morning. We no longer have the little cabbage plants that were growing, no little beans, lettuce gone 


* History: deck platform was built in '13 as part of the house rebuild. We've been walking on plywood ever since. Plywood is starting to get "iffy" so I finally got around to getting the wood to deck it but of course since I want the posts to be anchored inside the platform, not tacked on the outside, they need to be done first.


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## CntryBoy777

Just be careful of the ice in the Winter time forming on the boards.....a frosty dew can make it pretty slick.....good idea and will look good when ya are finished......well, ya only have to keep it clean for a couple of months.....


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## Bruce

That is actually quite true! No reason to go out the back in the winter.  Well, actually, if I get around to putting stairs on the far end (one side would meet that far corner) I would be tempted to go out that way on occasion in the winter. Of course I might have to shovel it first.


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## Mike CHS

'm obviously doing something wrong.  Do you disguise your traps in any way?


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## Baymule

Bruce you spend your time making everybody in the house happy. What makes you happy? You are one fine man and my heart broke for you when you had to give up Merlin. I know you have some special situations, but you need to do things that make you happy too.


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## Latestarter

I second that emotion (http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/smokeyrobinson/isecondthatemotion.html) Really nice looking yard you have there. Looks so northern New England-esque. Nice sized garden too. Sorry the chucks are reaping the benefit of your garden... that sucks. Hope you can eventually eradicate them all. I've never really tried trapping them... I always assumed a sniper position and settled in to wait them out (rather than bait them out). I know that's kind of an impossible plan in your present situation, though I imagine it would be good for your soul in so many ways. 

Not sure why you don't use the pool  I mean after sitting on a lawn tractor mowing (for example), you must be rather warm and I would think a dip in the pool would be rather refreshing. I mean, if I had one, I know I'd use it. After all, I'm (would be - you are) the one that cleans and maintains it. BTW, that's one impressive hose you're using to fill it... Is that coming from your well or connected to a fire hydrant?


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## Bruce

That hose is coming from a water truck  No way I would subject my 1979 well pump (and the well) to a 14,000 gallon drawdown. The liner needs substantial weight to "set it". So I forked over for 2 loads of water, total $540. In the end I needed to add only about the amount I would have if the liner didn't need to be replaced. Luckier than many on the road I guess, I see the water truck go down the road multiple times every spring. Must be they can't even come up with a few thousand gallons to bring it back up after the fall drawdown. 

No interest in a wading pool. By the time I'm done cleaning it, I really have no interest at all. I can cool off in the shower in a couple of minutes. Though I will say that the regrading of the sand for the new liner does make it easier to clean. Prior to the replacement, there was a dip to the outside all the way around so dirt collected there. And there were a lot of "divots" and "channels" that collected dirt as well. Vacuuming it was only so useful, couldn't really get the stuff out and brushing just floated it up so it could land again. Seems a lot of that stuff is now making it to the filter on its own though it has only been 2 weeks and I've only vacuumed once. Need to find time to do it tomorrow if it doesn't rain as expected. Of course the new liner doesn't do anything to stop the crap from falling out of the pine tree and into the pool.



Baymule said:


> What makes you happy?


Perhaps a future life.



Mike CHS said:


> I'm obviously doing something wrong. Do you disguise your traps in any way?


Not usually though one time I was able to put it RIGHT in front of the tunnel that went under the barn wall with a piece of plywood on either side of the open door so it almost had to walk right into the trap. I usually put an old piece of heavy felted material over the top. I cut a slit in it for the handle so the prisoner has shade. That MIGHT make it less obvious. Actually forgot about putting the trap out last night until just now. If the bugger went in, it may or may not be alive in the morning though it seems unlikely it would starve to death in a day nor die of thirst.

Went to the Field Days with the DDs today. Watched some "riding" horse competition and some pulling. Got back about 2:30. Was resting up a bit (fighting narcolepsy as usual) when the phone rang about 2:45. It was Al saying he was going out to bale at 4 PM and how many did I want for the boys. I told him 20 and got DD2 out to help me rearrange things in the drive bay for the delivery. That included moving some of last fall's hay (13 bales left of 38) closer to the the door that goes down to the animal section. Put 2 of those down the door and moved them to the "spare coop" where the younger chickens choose to spend their nights. 

DD apparently is only good with hay when gravity does 95% of the work. Finished all that about 3:30. DD asked why we had to rush out if he wasn't baling until 4. "Because Al is ALWAYS early" I told her. We went to work installing more posts on the deck and sure enough at about 4:15, I heard Al's tractor pulling into the drive. You KNOW that man didn't start baling at 4 PM, pick them up (by hand), put them on the trailer and drive the 3/4 mile to our house in 15 minutes (*).  

After the hay was put up and covered we went back to the deck posts. Have 6 of the 7 drilled and bolted though I need to attach ledgers to them where the deck boards will butt up and need support. I need to rout out a channel on the post that goes next to the house, there is a corner bracket holding the perpendicular to the ledger on the house which would require shimming and force the post out of line with the others on the north end of the deck and kinda screw the design of having a board running along that side that runs right to the inside edge of the posts. I'll post a future picture so this confusing description makes sense. 

* He does the same thing with firewood. He'll call at 9 AM and ask if I'm ready for the wood. I KNOW that means it is ALREADY on the dump trailer and he will be here 10 minutes after I say yes. I do usually get a week or so advance notice from him that he is getting ready to move wood but if I notice the woodpile at his house getting smaller, that is a good indication he'll be calling soon and I better get the little barn ready.


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## CntryBoy777

A chainsaw will stop the tree from shedding into the pool.......


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## Bruce

That may happen at some point. Though I would probably have to pay someone to take it down, I'm pretty sure it would take out the east fence line I just put in. I am not confident in my body climbing the tree nor my chainsaw skills to go up a decent way and drop the top first.


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## CntryBoy777

I haven't checked on the cost, but have often thought about renting a genie-boom to trim on some of these oak trees here.....if I just had a friend with a bucket truck, that'd work too....but a 20' ladder won't even touch a branch or limb.


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## Baymule

We had a large pine tree die right at the back yard fence and the horse pasture gate. It was striking distance to the house too. $400 and 35 minutes later, it was on the ground and cut up in easily handled pieces. Those guys are good!


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## Bruce

If this one does decide to die on its own (more than it has already, I've cut all the dead lower branches I could reach with the ladder) I'll pay to get it taken down. If if fell west, I might lose some fence. If it falls east the house will take a big hit. The tree is about 25' away.

HIGHLY suspicious activity last night around 10. The private road that runs up the south side of the property is about 75'-100' from the south end of the house. There was a car with its lights on facing east at the intersection of the road we live on. About 15' behind that car was a truck facing west, lights on and engine running. The guy in the truck must have been talking on his phone because there was enough light that I could see his face with my binoculars. I couldn't identify him in a lineup but he was clearly white and wearing a cap. The binoculars have big objective lenses so they gather light well. No light in the car so I couldn't see inside. My camera has much better magnification but puny objective, couldn't see a thing other than the head and tail lights. In any case after ~10 minutes a guy got out of the car and got into the truck. The car left, then the truck backed out into the road and left, also heading north. Guess I'll make a point of looking out the window more often. I couldn't have seen them from the couch, I just happened to be coming in from the kitchen at the "right" time. 

Took a trip to the edge of the woods this morning. Much easier since Al mowed a couple of weeks ago. No bushwhacking through 4'-5' tall grass and weeds, pretty much guaranteed to be wet with dew.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> If this one does decide to die on its own (more than it has already, I've cut all the dead lower branches I could reach with the ladder) I'll pay to get it taken down. If if fell west, I might lose some fence. If it falls east the house will take a big hit. The tree is about 25' away.
> 
> HIGHLY suspicious activity last night around 10. The private road that runs up the south side of the property is about 75'-100' from the south end of the house. There was a car with its lights on facing east at the intersection of the road we live on. About 15' behind that car was a truck facing west, lights on and engine running. The guy in the truck must have been talking on his phone because there was enough light that I could see his face with my binoculars. I couldn't identify him in a lineup but he was clearly white and wearing a cap. The binoculars have big objective lenses so they gather light well. No light in the car so I couldn't see inside. My camera has much better magnification but puny objective, couldn't see a thing other than the head and tail lights. In any case after ~10 minutes a guy got out of the car and got into the truck. The car left, then the truck backed out into the road and left, also heading north. Guess I'll make a point of looking out the window more often. I couldn't have seen them from the couch, I just happened to be coming in from the kitchen at the "right" time.



I see that kind of thing happen all the time here..usually with one vehicle left at the location for a few hours or sometimes all day or night.
Occasionally, it's just someone 'carpooling' into work near Houston, but most of the time, it's of a more  clandestine romantic nature...and I don't mean hubby and wife...or at least not that are married to each other anyway.


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## Bruce

I gotta assume it wasn't a romantic encounter. How many people get driven to that sort of thing and have the "chauffeur" wait in the running truck while they have a quickie?


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## Baymule

A spotlight on an extension cord pointed in that direction might let them know they aren't welcome. I sure wouldn't hold a light on them in my hand, might get shot at.


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## Latestarter

The again... anyone shooting at a spotlight might think twice about shooting as they might just get shot back at. justsayin...


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## Bruce

I think they should go farther up the private road, like right in front of the State Trooper's house 

Not so sure about the spotlight thing, they might figure out where I live   , come back later and shoot car or house windows.

If I do see them again I might go out by the fence at the road where our drive enters. The fence along the road is lined with lilacs. I could sit a few feet in from the fence and maybe get their license plates as they go past. No way they could see me from that direction. 

Or maybe it was a one-off and it won't happen again. Wouldn't break my heart. I gotta believe there are better places for suspicious activity than right next to a house even though it is 3/4 mile down a dirt road. There are plenty of houses on the road, it isn't like we are 8 miles from our nearest neighbor.


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## CntryBoy777

Now-now....lets don't jump to too many conclusions here. We have those kinds of situations around here too....many times it is just people that know each other discussing mutual business.....be it farmers talking crops or cows....family discussing issues.....yet, someone could've been meeting to share some fresh vegetables they had a bounty of.....around here many have to search for cell signal, and instead of ya coming all the way out here...and getting lost....I'd meet ya at a known location. So, don't let your mind get too far carried away.....there is usually a reasonable explanation. I'd keep an eye out for it and if it got to be too regular....then I'd get curious....otherwise, I wouldn't waste any time with it.....


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## Bruce

Well they aren't coming out to this road for cell signal, that's for sure! I will take your advice though there are any number of more appropriate places for all of those things you mentioned.


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## CntryBoy777

But, what if it is convienent and appropriate....could be an agreed to half-way spot that is familiar to both?....just sayin


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## Bruce

A mile down a road that has 9 houses before the one and only side road? When there is a small store/deli up on the main road 1/4 mile from our road? With a parking lot and not open at that time of night? Given they both left heading for the main road, I don't think the private road running up the side of my property was a halfway spot for them 

I do admire your rose colored glasses but there are a lot of drug problems here, sadly same as most of the country.


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## CntryBoy777

Oh Bruce.....I forgot to mention on the bacon slicing....be sure it is well chilled, the meat will stand better, cut better, and be more uniform.....and use a single edge, not surrated, knife..


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## Bruce

Thanks for the hair pick idea. Don't worry, I don't have a used one, it would HAVE to be new 

Yeah I'd already heard about cold meat slicing better, originally from a cashier at the family owned market I like. I was incredulous that frozen meat was easier to slice. Seems "in the freezer but not frozen solid" is what she really meant, clarified by the guy in line behind me. I have a boning knife (that NO ONE but me is allowed to use) that I think would work well. The blade is just slightly flexible and it is short enough for good control.







My wife's favorite knife is one *I* think is bad for most every task. About the length of a chef's knife but the "spine" is narrow and the blade quite flexible. Not stiff enough for chopping or cutting hard things like carrots and too big for cutting smaller softer things like tomatoes that might benefit from a narrow blade. 

Hmmmmmm, I WONDER ... probably illegal since it wouldn't be USDA packaged but if not maybe I could take my very cold "cured" belly slabs to the market and have them slice them for me. I'm well known to the deli staff and the owners of the store


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## CntryBoy777

Talk to them ahead of time and they might do it at the end of the day before they tear the machine down for cleaning....


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## Mike CHS

I have boning knives similar to the one you have pictured that I use for the majority of things but it isn't firm enough for things like winter squash.


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## Bruce

I have a 9" chef's knife that is good for winter squash. Very stiff and long enough to "lever" chop, I use it all the time. DD1 thinks it is "big and scary". She uses knives that are too small for the task instead which is actually more dangerous.

Apparently I've had it so long is it now "vintage". 
https://www.ebay.com/i/122614005825
Don't things have to be 50 Y/O to be "vintage"? I've only had it for 37 years and bought it new.


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## Baymule

I have a drawer full of knives. My favorite are the Old Hickory knives.


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## greybeard

Traditionally, 'vintage' doesn't mean much. 100 years for furniture and automobiles to officially be 'antique'.

'Vintage' is usually just used to describe something with some age on it, that has come back into fashion, use, or interest that came from the 20 year 1960-1970 period. 1950 to 1959 is 'retro'.

All of the above has to be considered 'collectible' 
 otherwise, like me, it's just old.


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## Bruce

Yeah I think there are several of us that are "vintage" age but far from collectable!

From wikipedia: "The Antique Automobile Club of America defines an antique car as over 25 years of age".
Might be time to change that, there are plenty of "antique" cars in daily use in places like So. Cal. Probably made sense in 1935 when the club was formed and cars hadn't been around all that long.


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## Bruce

Worked on the deck some more today. All planks cut that can be, I have 3 boards that are unusable and need a few more besides. Need some more clear boards for the horizontal baluster supports as well. Hopefully the company will take back the bad boards. Hate to think I have to pay for them. 

Went out to the garden, had to come back to the house to get a knife to defend myself. 2 HUGE Zucchini and one reasonable size one. 10 yellow crookneck, a couple a bit older than "best". 
1 beautiful orange pepper, the only one on the plant. There are a few TINY buds but given this one has been growing for 2 months I'm not holding out hope the next ones (if they develop) will get all the way to full color.  There are 2 smaller ones on the other plant, one is orange on the bottom 2/3. 
A few Sungold tomatoes, mid August and FINALLY SOME cherry tomatoes are ready?? . 
There are several artichokes on 5 plants, looks like plant #6 got its top munched, doesn't look good. Will have to cut the biggest ones tomorrow and save them in the refrigerator until a couple more get to size. Half of one not all that big artichoke just doesn't cut it!

The cantaloupe is getting bigger and I spotted a smaller one on the other side of the plant. Hopefully both will get ripe!


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## Bruce

Oh, one other thing. I finally got around to sending the Alpaca shears back to Premier 1 for evaluation. They didn't find anything wrong and I got to talk to one of their technical people. Will have to try again next spring and hope I recall what he said. I ordered another cutter so I will have 2 cutters and 2 combs. Also ordered 8 oz of shearing oil and a pair of hand shears (better than household scissors right?) that I can use if I fail with the electric again. The boys REALLY hated the noise of the shears on their necks let alone near their heads so I'll hand shear higher up anyway. 

And the good part. Premier 1 did not charge me to sharpen the cutter and combs and sent me a check for $12 to help cover the cost of me sending them the shears to look at. Pretty darned decent of them I say!


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## CntryBoy777

Ya sure can't beat that at all....maybe writing down those instructions would be of benefit come Spring, and not rely on that "Vintage" memory....
I'm with @Baymule on the Old Hickory knives....it's all that I use in the kitchen.
Hope the garden does come thru for ya....it is late, but something is certainly better than nothing.....sure hope ya survive the zucchini....


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## Mike CHS

Premier1 has the Customer Service part down pat.  I ordered some milking pails last year and my order did not include a part that wasn't mentioned in the description but it was needed to make it work. I got a call from them the morning after I placed the order and was told what I needed and said they were holding my order to make sure I got what I needed.

Hard to beat that.


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## Bruce

You are right Fred. I should write it down and put it in the case. I can forget stuff from yesterday let alone 9 months.

If the problem was how dirty the boys were, I guess they'll be hand sheared. The only other possibility would be to keep them away from dirt which is not practical. I did buy a pistol grip pump oil can (before sending the unit back). I've seen them used in YouTube shearing videos. The oil in the squeeze bottle comes out too fast, no squeezing needed so it doesn't hit the hole in the unit well and I think too much is wasted putting it on the cutter/comb. That should help me more easily put the oil where I want it. And maybe I need to put a bit on more often rather than waiting until they stop cutting well.  He did say that if they are "chewing" to move the comb forward so there is more than the recommended 1/8" distance between the points of the cutter and the drop off where the comb teeth hit the flat part.


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## Bruce

Not too much excitement here. Lousy picture of the partial eclipse. I have no idea what the "not sun" and red spots are but the camera really wanted to focus on them, not the eclipse. And the camera saw it upside down so I had to flip it

 

Pictures of the April chicks. The gate is directly behind the kitchen window, the solar panels are just beyond and to the left. The last picture is of the Barnevelders Trouble and Trill.


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## Bruce

Trouble has taken an interest in Oreo. Guess that means she IS a she and is getting close to laying her first egg. He is very "teenage boy" about it. Dancing around clumsily and trying to figure out how to get a girl's attention. She doesn't seem very impressed.


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## CntryBoy777

Oh....don't count him out, just yet, and their are other hens that might think differently.....


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## Bruce

Yes, he was on Penelope today. Serves her right, she's low on the pole of the older (2 & 5 Years) hens and chases the young ones more than any other hen does.


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## Bruce

Went to the fair Thursday. Should have entered my hatchery chickens, what a load of "meh"! Many birds listed as Ameraucana, crossed off and EE written in. Lots listed as EE, crossed off and Ameraucana written in. There was ONE possible Ameraucana, a black. ALL the others had patterns that can not exist in an Ameraucana. Half the Easter Eggers (claimed Ameraucana or not) didn't even have beards or muffs which are REQUIRED on Ameraucana. I know there are no standards for EEs as they aren't even a breed but sheesh what poor specimens these people entered. 

I have no interest in showing but I bet I coulda sold Trouble for at least $25. Heck people had RIR pullets for $20/$25 and they are as cheap as a day old chick comes from a hatchery. The Barnevelders are $10+. They had one Barnevelder pullet, Trill is a much better looking bird though I wouldn't sell a pullet.


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## CntryBoy777

That's an idea Bruce....since ya have no interest in showing, it would give a couple of young Ladies something to do to "Occupy" their time with.....nothing says "Encouragement" like a few awards....


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## Bruce

Um, Fred, they aren't interested at all. They don't even go down to the barn, especially DD2. The closest she gets is the drive bay up top where the garden tractor is ... and only when I ask her to mow the lawn.


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## Bruce

Zorra went broody, weird time of year, so I put her in the buster yesterday morning. Keep in mind that the buster is on its stand in the coop the younger chickens have chosen to sleep in instead of being harassed on the roosts in the "real" coop (both are stall conversions and are side by side). She laid an egg overnight (again an odd thing to happen so soon) and was sounding "normal" so I opened the buster to let her out.

She flew out and I THINK must have landed very near Trouble in the alley just outside the coop. And trouble ensued. They are about the same size (Zorra being clearly bigger than any other hen I have) and boy did they go at it. Flared neck and body feathers, jumping at each other claws out, jumping over to avoid an attack and return the "favor" from the back side.  I separated them and went to get the morning BOSS. They went back at it. I separated them again and Zorra disappeared. I looked all over and finally found her back in the community nest box sounding broody again. I put her back in the buster for the day. 

Got home around 4:30 from my activities and opened the gate so the chickens could come out up by the house. They still think they are in jail if they only have the entirety of the lower barn (except the older girls won't go in the alpacas' area) and the fenced in acre. I went to see how Zorra was. She was calm so I carried her out past the gate to make sure she didn't accidentally run into Trouble in what might be considered an attack. 

Everything seemed OK so I went to check for eggs.



 

Note the 38 gram first egg from Oreo (Exchequer Leghorn), laid at 19 weeks, 4 days.


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## Mike CHS

Ours have slowed down a bit but I guess we should probably add a light to the coops since the days have gotten so much shorter.   Good looking eggs.


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## Bruce

The egg I didn't show was from Zorra, it went to a customer this morning. She is 5 years old. The other eggs (besides Oreo's of course) came from the 2 year olds. Most of them made it to the end of October last year. By then I HOPE most of the 6 new girls will be laying. If I miscalculate this, I'll not have any eggs come mid Fall. Not sure when I should get nervous and start freezing some.

I don't add light. Ours live here until they die a natural death or need to be put down for an unrecoverable medical condition. I figure if I don't push them to lay in "unnatural" seasons, they might be productive longer. 

Since pullets typically lay their first winter (prior to first adult moult) one can have eggs year round if they get chicks every spring. Of course that could lead to WAY too many hens after a bit with most of them "slacking" 3-5 months of the year and much more as they age.

Zorra hopped back in the nest box tonight instead of on the roost. I rousted her out and covered the entrance with plywood. That put some frustration on her. Hopefully she will hit the roost and not one of the open nest boxes. If she's in one of them in the morning I'll have to put her back in the buster. Didn't really want to do that tonight as 3 of the young girls decided they wanted to sleep on top. It is 1/2" hardware cloth top, bottom and all 4 sides. Nothing like sleeping under pooping chickens.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya know...the fighting could be Zorra not wanting to relinquish the flock leader position to Trouble....


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## Bruce

Trouble hasn't yet been trying to run the flock. He and the other April chicks usually hang together but he doesn't even keep them all together. Also hasn't decided he should call the girls to food rather than making sure he gets his. He still mostly runs from the older girls. At some point I ASSUME he will figure out he is bigger than most of the other birds AND that as the rooster, he has a job to do as protector.

Or not 

I was talking to the maple people at the Farmer's Market today. They also sell eggs. Seems they have a LOT of hens, not many roosters. If Trouble becomes too much trouble, I can give him to them. They are actually interested in getting a couple about his age (20 weeks on Monday). 

I cleaned the wood stove chimney and replaced the filters in the furnaces today. I hope I've not jinxed any hope it will get warm enough again that we don't have to fire them up just yet but I figured I best be ready. I think my wife is done with the pool for the year, water temp down to 64 even with the solar blanket on. We've had nothing but cool, gray and rain the past couple of weeks.


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## CntryBoy777

Well that's good that ya have a plan B for Trouble. It is always better to do maintenance work without having to bundle up to get it done, so now it is ready to go....just in case, and for when it is needed. Yeh, I don't think there will be much soaking and splashing at 64°....might as well winterize that and take 1 more thing off the List. I'm trying to prepare for the cold myself, but it will/should be a bit longer before we get that far into it. Also, getting ready for the falling leaves....


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## Mike CHS

I don't envy you with your short seasons.


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## Bruce

You have a short season as well Mike, it is called "winter"  

I don't envy you and your Tropical Depression 

Wife's "pool season" was especially short since the new liner didn't go in until mid July. 6 week season this year. Up here pool and tomato/pepper planting happen around Memorial day.


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## Mike CHS

I guess that I got spoiled with long gardening seasons since I spent most of my adult life in NW Florida.  But I have to admire your New England fortitude for doing things in so few months.


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## Baymule

I have 2 pens of gawky EE teenagers. I'm starting to hear the squeaky ER-ER-ER-GURGLE. I have a plan for them.......a resort that rivals your state for cold....Freezer Camp!


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## Bruce

Thankfully I have only the one!


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## Latestarter

Sorry the other half only got a short swim season... makes the expense of a new liner hurt a little more I'm sure...  Can't you make some sort of solar still to heat the water and keep it usable longer?  https://theselfsufficientliving.com/10-diy-solar-pool-heaters/
I well remember swimming in New England... as a kid we always tried to have our first swim on Memorial day and last around Labor day (or later). As I recall, the water sometimes still had ice in it... As I got older, my tolerance for cold water swimming decreased annually. Now if it's much below 75-80 it feels like ice water to me   We used to take truck tire inner tubes, blow them up and make rafts out of them and float down stream in the brook/river that ran behind my home. It was generally 5-8' deep during the spring melt. That invariably ended up with someone swimming... planned or not.


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## Baymule

Swimming in _ice water?? _


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## Bruce

I have thought about making a plastic pipe heater, just not a priority given all the other things I need to do. I looked at the link you posted, hadn't considered connecting it into the pool pump. Figured it should have its own pump and some sort of thermostat so it wouldn't run if the water leaving the "heater" isn't hotter than what is already in the pool. Plus, the pool pump is moving a LOT of water, even on slow speed. Not sure the stuff in the pipe would have time to heat up much. I imagine I could skip the thermostat and just TRY to remember to turn the heater's pump on once the sun has gotten up enough to do some good AND remember to turn it off once it has gone down beyond whatever angle is "helpful".

DD1 figures the pool is usable when it hits 80°, DW will go in at 70°. She's turned down the option of going in at 66° but we are supposed to have some sun and temps in the mid 70°s and she is hopeful the pool (with solar cover) will heat up enough. I'm not really betting on that given the lows will be near 50°. It won't hit 70°until probably 3 PM. I'm thinking she's not likely to get in again this year.


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## CntryBoy777

Don't ya think a solar panel would heat the water faster and more? They sure have a bunch of those in Fl on the roofs of houses and they supply the pool with hot or warm water....and some even heat it for the home.


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## Bruce

They do make vacuum tube water heaters for domestic water but they are $$$. 
A quick search found this cheap one for $160, but there is no information on the conditions necessary to raise the pool temp 5° in 5 days as they state. Like how many gallons in the pool, sun hours per day, ambient air temp, etc. 
https://www.houzz.com/photos/54973159/SolarPRO-Curve-Heater-traditional-hot-tub-and-pool-accessories

A photovoltaic would be $$$$ plus you would need a resistance electric heater to do the actual work. 

I expect that is why people make the cheap black plastic pipe coil "heaters". Not going to get as much heat from them, but DIY affordable.

In THEORY, it is now cheaper to use a hybrid heat pump water heater that runs on electricity than to buy the vacuum tube water heaters. I've not checked into that but the guy who lives next to our old house is a contractor and that is where I got that information. He's rehabbing the house (bought 2 years ago) and has solar on the roof (6 kWh system I think), hybrid water heater and "mini split" heat pumps for heat. They managed to run the house without owing the power company anything the first year and no propane or oil. They do have a pellet stove in the basement for supplemental heat but didn't need to use it. They might wear sweaters or fleeces in the house some winter days for all I know.


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## CntryBoy777

I'd have thought it would be better and cheaper by now....guess it was just a fad.


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## Bruce

Electric resistance heat is always expensive energy wise. Of course if one has a lot of excess solar power from existing panels, who cares?  But I don't have much excess.


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## Bruce

I had managed to get Trill to come out of the "spare stall coop" leaving Trouble there by himself. He had gone after Zorra the day before, bloodied her comb and it wasn't a breeding event.

Last night's chicken bedtime:
I make sure they are all behind the front gate before 6 then go back when it is dark enough they should all be up on the roosts. I found Cassie (EE) up on the coop door, Mint (EL) in the community nest box and Oreo (EL) up on the top crossbar of the alpaca stand. I'll save you the long story, let's just say it isn't easy to get skittish chickens up on the roost without a lot of commotion.

Since all the new girls were in the regular coop, they got out when the sun came up with the auto door. This morning around 9 I saw a flock of turkeys (2 hens, 6 poults) wandering north in the field behind the area I fenced. And I saw Mint in the back yard. She has NO trouble flying up to the ~5.5' high front gates between the barns. Apparently she didn't read the memo that all the chickens are to stay behind that gate when it is closed.


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## CntryBoy777

It might be wing clipping time.....we have 1 Dottie that we call Wild Thang that will fly over the fence and poke her head thru every knook and cranny trying to expand her Horizon....and she is the last one to roost every nite, which drives the roos crazy cause they demand the hens to obey. That maybe the situation with Trouble and Zorra. Wild Thang doesn't care about the feather pulling or rough treatment, she does as she wishes to do.....


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## Baymule

It sure simplifies matters when you can eat the trouble makers.


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## Bruce

You know we won't be doing that @Baymule.

@Mike CHS's "wild" turkey's northern kin

  

And Mint, not where she should have been. Don't know about wing clipping, maybe I can raise the the height of the gate with a wire across it or something


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## Mike CHS

That's a good size gang of turkeys.  I haven't clipped any of our chickens wings but I assume it's the same as clipping a parrots wing which I have done plus with a chicken you don't have as much to worry about with their beaks as a parrot.


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## CntryBoy777

It is the same Mike, and after facing the beak of a parrot the chicken really isn't too be dreaded....Bruce, it is quicker and easier than stringing something up, hoping it works....clipping is a sure fix.....


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## Bruce

Today I made a more secure/easier to install/uninstall cover for the openings in the community nest box so none of the younger girls would try to roost in it.

Tonight's activity:
Whole family went to the barn well past dark.

Removed Oreo from the upper cross bar on the alpaca stand and put a black band on her leg. Put her on the roost.
Removed Mint from the upper cross bar on the alpaca stand and put a red band on her leg. Put her on the roost.

Removed Cassiopea from the top of the coop door and put her on the roost

Removed Veronica from one of the open nest boxes put a red band on her leg. Put her on the roost.

Moved Trouble to the other coop. He won't be coming out early in the morning and crowing, no auto door. And if he keeps beating on some of the other chickens, he won't get out at all.
Removed from the roost, banded, placed back on the roost
Angel - yellow
Yuki - blue
Mellori - blue
Nuit - yellow
Zorra - black

Anais - yellow
Clemence - brown
Betty - blue

Why? Because some members of the family can't tell them apart. I, on the other hand, can (though not always at a distance) and won't remember the colors


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## Baymule

Well that makes perfect sense. It really will help the family know what chicken is who. I knew a man with a herd of black angus. He knew every one of them by their faces.


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## Bruce

Closing up last night: Oreo on the alpaca stand, Mint and Cassiopea on the coop door, another girl in a nest box. I didn't bother to shine a light on her to see which Welsummer it was, I just heard her as I carried Oreo into the coop and snagged her as the second "night roost reassignment". I'm sure Penelope is running them off the roost before it gets really dark and she can't see well enough to do it. Trying to NOT keep her status as "low girl in the order" I guess. 

I let Trouble out of his coop around 10 AM, he seems to be behaving himself so far today. If he starts running down the girls again, he'll be "reassigned" tonight when I close up the coop.


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## CntryBoy777

I have a question for ya....the hen that has been raising the duckling here....when we take the ducklung from her, will she need to be reintergrated back into the flock or will she be okay to find her place back into it?


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## Bruce

In my VAST experience (Zorra raising 2 batches ), she bailed on them and went right back to the flock. These would be the same girls she'd been chasing away for a couple of months. 

Do your ducks and chickens mingle? I would think the duck would figure out it was more like the other ducks than her "mother" and might take him/her self "away" when s/he is ready.


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## CntryBoy777

Naw, they are separated, but there is fence between the hen-duckling pair and the rest of the chickens. I never got the ducks in their half of the house, so we separated her to the other half of the house when she went broody. She is acting like she is wanting back on the roost, so will probably take the duckling to the garage to finish out feathering....it is close to 3wks old now.


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## Bruce

Weren't some of your ducks broody? Maybe if you put the duckling in with them they would take care of it. BTW, Mama Heating Pad Brooder. Best thing next to a real mama.

Tonight's fun and games:
Already on the roost: 
- Betty (on the far left with older girls) and Trouble on the far right. I left him there. I wonder what time he'll come out of the barn through the alpacas' door and crow.
On the alpaca stand: Mint
On the door: Veronica
On the edge of an open nest box in the coop: Trill
On the half wall between the "feed room" and the alley: Cassiopeia
.
.
.
Above the door when I came in with the flashlight: Oreo .... who moved farther into the space between the rafters before I tried to get her. The entire ceiling is covered with 1/2" hardware cloth poultry stapled to the underside of the joists. No way I can get to her. Stupid bird   If there is a raccoon around and it decides tonight is a good night for chicken dinner, she's a gonner.


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## CntryBoy777

Yeh, we had 3 of them, but when we cleaned out the pen and eggs they quit acting broody. Oh, we still have our brooder setups, so Momma can be assembled rather quickly.....and only having 1 duckling it will be a breeze after the experience of 12....
1 thing about Oreo being up high tho, is that scent rises with the air, so she should be okay....hoping anyway....


----------



## Mike CHS

They are easy prey.  We found the last of our Delaware's missing it's head inside one of the coops the other day.


----------



## Baymule

Maybe you should keep them put up for several days to a week. Try letting them out an hour before dark. After a few days, let them out earlier. Possibly you could retrain them to their coop.


----------



## Bruce

Oreo is around this morning, nice pile of poop up on the overhead 1/2" hardware cloth. Mint is MIA though. I assume she went "flyabout" after the auto door opened. Cassie, Veronica and Betty were at the upper gate when I went down at 10. At this point I do expect Mint to show up from under some plant/deck. We will see.


----------



## Bruce

Still haven't seen Mint  I figured she would show up when the other chickens were let out of the barn (the older ones that won't go out through the Alpacas' door) or at least when we got back from the Farmers' Market and opened the gate up front since the girls prefer to be around the house than behind the barn. But no sign of her (or any evidence of foul play) in or out of the barn as yet.

Got my pork belly today
Unwrapped

 

Skinned and trimmed
 

In their sleeping bags (coated with salt, maple syrup, some pepper, garlic and basil) ready for their 1 week sleep in the refrigerator. I'll be gentle with the daily "flip" so I don't disturb them 
 

There are a lot of bacon curing recipes on the web, some very different from others. One says basically 0.5 cups of salt (kosher or sea) per 5 pounds of meat. Others say 2 tablespoons for a 2.5 pound piece of meat. That is a 2X difference since there are 16 tablespoons to a cup. I figure my two "slabs" are about 5 pounds each so I went with 1 cup of salt since the salt is supposed to pull out extra moisture and there are instructions that once cured the slabs should be rinsed really well to get excess salt off/out anyway. 

Another interesting thing mentioned on one site: home cured bacon doesn't spit and crackle when cooked as much as store bought stuff because the curing solution in store bought is injected into the slab rather than soaking in from the outside so there is water in the store bought meat. I guess I'll see in a bit over a week.


----------



## CntryBoy777

The belly looks and sounds good. Really sorry to hear Mint hasn't shown up yet...hope she does  that is kinda strange for a chicken, tho to stay away from the flock. I know ya will leave no board unturned in looking for her....


----------



## Mike CHS

We cured some last year but I can't recall if there was any less popping.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> I know ya will leave no board unturned in looking for her....


She showed up later in the afternoon. From where I have NO idea. 

And the board you speak of? I put a piece of plywood perpendicular to the back wall sticking out over the 2 twelve foot long parallel roosts so Penelope would have to choose a side and be unable to walk the length of them to harass the youngin's then retreat. Hoping they'll decide they can go up on the roosts because ONE side should be safe. 

Didn't work yet. She was on the right side with 2 other older girls, Trouble and another young one were on the left side wall with the other 8 older girls. I moved 5 younger ones from the alley (Oreo on the half wall, 4 others on the alpaca stand) to the left side of the new divider.

I also disconnected the auto door so Mint can't get out early and go flyabout again. Hoping that if she gets out with the rest of the flock she'll stick with them. Of course there were 6 other younger ones that could have gotten out to hang with this morning and she was still MIA so I have no idea what goes on inside her chicken brain.


----------



## CntryBoy777

She sounds like our Wild Thang....she is always off to herself and the very last to go to roost at nite. I had to chase her into their area this evening in fact. If we truly free ranged she would deffinitely be a prime target....she even fights with the roos.


----------



## Mike CHS

We let our older girls free range anymore but they are pretty slow at figuring out where the gates are so we have to herd them back in before dark.


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## Latestarter

Sounds like you've found a full time retirement occupation... chicken arrangements... Sounds like they're doing a fine job of keeping you on your toes.


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## Bruce

I moved 5 girls after dark from the run into the coop last night. As noted, Mint was missing for most of the day yesterday, showed up in the afternoon from who knows where. Given she hasn't started laying yet (to my knowledge) AND that ELs are not supposed to be broody, I doubt she was in an outside nest somewhere. 

Since Mint had gone flyabout before I opened the barn yesterday I disconnected the auto door last night so she would not be tempted this morning. Might have been a big mistake. I let everyone out of the coop around 8 AM. Trouble started chasing Zorra in the run so I chased him into the "extra" coop. Then I saw the back of Zorra's head, he'd ripped through her skin. Clearly he'd trapped and ripped at her either last night before roosting or this morning or both. She had nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. 

This isn't a bit of exuberant breeding, he's still got it in for her for "attacking" him by landing near him when she came out of the broody buster box 2 weeks ago and they went at it. He's only gotten larger since then. Not a nice way to treat the hen who raised him! He'll be living in the "extra" coop and likely move to the farm of the "maple people" from the Farmers' Market. I caught Zorra up and put some antibiotic ointment on the wound, hoping none of the other girls will go after it. 

I used 3 of Oreo's first 4 eggs (unless the last one was from Mint since it was the smallest at 30g) this morning. ALL of them were double yolk. I am not surprised by that when I open a 70g or 80g egg but a 32g, 34g and 36g?? I guess the factory is still working out the startup kinks.


----------



## Bruce

I only had to move 2 girls into the coop last night. Hopefully it will soon be zero.

This morning Mint was still in the barn when I went to open up. Veronica was between the barns, thus behind the front gates. Cassie was foraging in the back yard beside the small barn  I don't know if she can fly up to the top of the gate like Mint and Oreo do or has found a different way out.

I have noticed that Cassie (EE), Betty and Veronica (Welsummers) seem to be the "3 Musketeers", they are often together. All are more than happy to come see if I might have snacks.


----------



## Bruce

Moved 1 last night, 2 tonight. Mint was in the front yard this morning, Cassie in the back where she belongs. They are taking turns breaking out??

Spent a good part of the day letting cordwood heat me more than once  There are always some pieces (about .5 to 1 run) that are either too long, too big or both when the wood is delivered. I never got to that pile in the barn with last year's wood so I did it today while DD1 was at class. She's not fond of noise and chainsaws are nothing if not noisy. Plus, Al (the guy I get the wood from and who mows my field) had been working on his barn roof and wall.  He finished yesterday which to me, given it is mid September, means he'll be itching to get this year's wood delivered. Figured I better beat him to it this year and be ready when he calls.

I cut split the few that needed it, took the full dump cart up to the house and put the wood on the enclosed porch. That is about enough for 1 week. Then I took the splitter and the cart to the pile of cut (and uncut!) logs in front of the big barn and split another cart and a half of 16" pieces I'd cut last summer. What didn't fit in the cart is sitting on a log, the cart is by the porch waiting for me to empty it tomorrow.

When I was close to done with that DD1 came out with the phone. It was Al. Guess what he wanted?  Yep, he'll be delivering on Monday and if the past is any predictor he'll be here by 8 AM latest. But this year I am ready, just need to smooth out the girls' favorite dust bath spot, get the pallets ready and spread the tarp Monday morning. It keeps the wood from digging into the grass/dirt as it is dumped and covers it while the workers (basically me) gets the 4 cords of wood into the barn over a period of days. For those that don't burn wood, a cord of dry hardwood like maple, oak, cherry weighs ~3,000 pounds or more. Since I move it 4 times (5 counting actually putting it in the stove), that means I'm getting my exercise all fall and winter! I do have some ideas on how to cut that down to 2 or maybe even only 1 move using "Bruce power" but it will require a REAL tractor with forks.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Bruce said:


> a cord of dry hardwood like maple, oak, cherry weighs ~3,000 pounds or more. Since I move it 4 times (5 counting actually putting it in the stove), that means I'm getting my exercise all fall and winter!


Golly!  That's a lot of exercise!


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## CntryBoy777

You messin with wood, reminded to ask ya how the woodchuck situation is coming along....ya get'em all?


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## Baymule

I bet your bacon is going to be soooooo good! Do you have a smoker pit? Take pics!


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## Bruce

Moved 2 girls last night.  

DD1 & 2 and I went to the farm of one of our ground beef suppliers at the Farmer's Market on Tuesday. They were making cider ... with a hand turned press. I have no idea how many bushels of apples they had but it was a LOT and a LOT of "put the bar in, turn 1/4, move the bar, turn 1/4" to process! We primarily went to buy 15 pounds of ground beef in 1 pound bags so they wouldn't have to cart it all to the market. They live only 11 miles from us. We came home with our purchased meat and a HOT (just pasteurized) half gallon of cider as a free bonus.



CntryBoy777 said:


> You messin with wood, reminded to ask ya how the woodchuck situation is coming along....ya get'em all?


Haven't seen any since the garden one went for a "walk". Perhaps I'll be "chuck free" next year though I imagine there will be transients that find the place eventually.



Baymule said:


> I bet your bacon is going to be soooooo good! Do you have a smoker pit? Take pics!


Um, no smoker pit, no smoker grill.  Don't tell anyone but I bought some Wright's applewood liquid smoke (smoke and water only, no other ingredients) and will "smoke" it in the oven. I know this will cause pain to those who do smoke meat. I can't see buying a smoker, cheap or otherwise, to smoke 10 pounds of home (un)cured bacon when I don't even know if DW and DD2 will like it.


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## Mike CHS

I have done some bacon on my Weber grill with an after market smoker accessory but it was too hard to hold the temps down. But, I have also done some in the oven also.


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## Bruce

Thanks Mike, maybe I won't get kicked out of the herd for not doing real smoke 

No birds out front this morning. Maybe because it was seriously foggy. Our temps are way high for this time of year and the humidity is too. Only had to move 1 bird into the coop tonight. 

Called the couple we refer to as "the maple people" from the Farmer's Market this evening. They will bring a cage Saturday and I'll put Trouble in it off the roost that night. Sunday he moves one town east. It is too bad he has it in for Zorra. He is a pretty bird and other than the potential problems with him waking DD1 in the morning (since she goes to bed late and doesn't get up until 10 or 11), it would be nice if he were around as a flock protector when they range outside the fenced area.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Um, no smoker pit, no smoker grill.  Don't tell anyone but I bought some Wright's applewood liquid smoke (smoke and water only, no other ingredients) and will "smoke" it in the oven. I know this will cause pain to those who do smoke meat. I can't see buying a smoker, cheap or otherwise, to smoke 10 pounds of home (un)cured bacon when I don't even know if DW and DD2 will like it.



I have cooked with Liquid Smoke before, it ain't half bad. It ought to work well for you. @Devonviolet used it on bacon before and she was delighted with the results. She can't handle the nitrate/nitrites in "cured" bacon. 

Our BBQ/Smoker pit was $99 at WallyWorld early this spring. It works great. So we aren't a BBQ purist either. Our other BBQ pit is an old water heater tank, I love it. 

I applaud  your efforts to make bacon, smoker pit or not. Good for you.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> She can't handle the nitrate/nitrites in "cured" bacon.


Me either, migraine hell (*). That is why I decided to try to "uncure" it myself since I had access to quality pasture raised pork from Farmer Brown. I can sometimes buy "uncured" at the grocery store but I can't always find it and since it is a really small part of the bacon makers' business they charge a lot more for NOT using pink salt. The "uncured" has celery salt in it which apparently has a naturally occurring nitrate. But maybe like "fragrances", man made can be bad but natural doesn't seem to cause DD1 or me to get a migraine. 

The "not curing"  process will be done tomorrow afternoon. I do notice that without the nitrate the visible lean is brownish rather than reddish. Or maybe the maple syrup "stained" it. No matter, the lean will get brown when it is cooked anyway.

OK, I just read up on the "liquid smoke step". All the recipes I find say to roast it to an internal temp of 150° then brush the liquid smoke on all sides and let it air dry for some amount of time (like 30 minutes). Why does that not result in "smoky" on the outside and not smoky inside? Is the smoke flavor really just on the skinny edge of each piece of sliced bacon and (really strong on the 2 outside pieces)? I was ASSUMING the LS was put on BEFORE the roasting to 150° but I guess not!

* can we say "hell" here???


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## Baymule

Are you putting liquid smoke on the whole slab or sliced pieces? I would think it would be better on sliced pieces or sprinkle it on when you cook it. 

If you heat the slab to 150 degrees, it will slightly cook it. We smoked ours at 110 degrees. I don't know if 40 degrees makes that much of a difference. 

I would slice it, liquid smoke it and fry some to test it. if it is to your liking, do the rest of the slab, portion and freeze it.


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## Bruce

I wasn't planning on brushing each and every slice! I guess for that one could do it just before cooking rather than prior to refrigerating/freezing. Does real smoke get driven deep into the meat as it smokes or is it also just on the surface?

Every recipe I found said to oven roast or smoke it to 150° in the thickest part of the slab. Going to be trial and error I think. The different recipes roast anywhere from 90 to 150 minutes to get to that internal temp!

Moved Trill and Cassie into the coop last night. All the chickens were in or behind the barn this morning


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## Mike CHS

Real smoke penetrates pretty deep depending on how long the smoke is generated.  It doesn't penetrate as much when smoking at lower temps though.


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## Bruce

Trouble has gone to his new home. They forgot to bring the cage to the market so they came over later in the day and picked him up.


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## CntryBoy777

Maybe Zorra and you can get some rest now and ya can get back to normal....


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## Bruce

Zorra was getting plenty of rest, though I think she was still nervous about going back to the barn just in case Trouble was loose. Trouble had been confined to the "second coop" (where he and the younger girls stayed at night until recently) since the day he attacked and ripped into her neck. It seems he will be the oldest rooster in their flock by far. That is good, it means he doesn't have to fight for position with an established hierarchy of "manly men". And apparently there are LOTS of girls to chase. 

Moved Cassie into the coop again tonight. Bacon is done curing, roasting and "smoking". DD1 came out of the bathroom as I finished brushing the liquid smoke on the still warm meat saying something like "is that the bacon?". Her tongue was stuck out like a cod pulled up from 300'. DD2 on the other hand said "smells like bacon". 
Tomorrow morning we find out if it is any good.


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## CntryBoy777

I'm sure it will be good...not that there might be some tweeking on future batches, but ya never know til ya try and experiment a bit with it. It sounds like Trouble will be royalty before very long....


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## Bruce

I will have a problem replicating the bacon if it turns out really well. Other than a cup of salt and a cup of maple syrup I don't know how much of what I put in there  I know there was some garlic, some fresh ground pepper (my hand gave out at what was probably about 1 tablespoon, the recipe called for 3), some fresh basil. The liquid smoke was CAREFULLY measured ... by pouring some on the meat then spreading it around with a pastry brush. 

Yes, I do hope that Trouble will have an "enjoyable" life free ranging at his new home. I know he wouldn't be happy living here in a coop forever.


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## CntryBoy777

Don't feel bad Bruce....I never measure much of anything either. That's why I'm not a baker, cause ya have to measure for things to turn out right. It drives the daughters nuts when they want a recipe and I tell them a little of this, and some of that....oh, and add some of that over there and taste it to see if it needs more...


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## Pastor Dave

Most of the bacon today in groceries haven't been smoked. Pretty sure it's all chemical processed. That being said, I use Liquid Smoke a lot.


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## Bruce

Pastor Dave said:


> Most of the bacon today in groceries haven't been smoked. Pretty sure it's all chemical processed. That being said, I use Liquid Smoke a lot.


Apparently true! I saw a video of how they make liquid smoke and it said all the large commercial smoked food is "smoked" with LS. 

Moved Trill and Cassie into the coop last night. 

The bacon came out OK, a bit too salty, I'll have to rinse/soak it more next time. All the different recipes were confusing. Some said to rinse it well, one said to soak the meat for 4-6 hours to get the excess salt out. I ate the outside end pieces I cut off to make the slices uniform length. I don't know if there is more salt in the ends or not. Wife said it was "different" but not in a bad way but yeah a bit salty. I will say there is more fat than I would like to see. Apparently this came from a really big pig. He had another from a smaller pig but of course being all packaged up by the butcher, neither of us could see and compare. I think next time I'll ask for one from a pig that hasn't had as much time to chow down


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## CntryBoy777

At least now ya have a reference point to work from, and it only gets better as ya increase the experience and knowledge......


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## Bruce

Well Trouble didn't make it 2 days at his new home. Apparently jumped the fence. They found his headless and neckless body down near the road. Clearly the mark of a coon. No idea why he went AWOL, there was plenty of free range space and free range "girl friends". I asked how the other chickens don't get eaten. 
Because they don't go over the fence was the answer. 
And why don't the coons come to get them? 
Because the dog stays in the fenced area as well.

Replaced the 12V battery in DD2's "new" 2006 Prius today. 4th time I've done it on this generation of Prius, gets fairly easy with repetition. Since the 12V is behind the right rear quarter panel and you have to take out the storage tray under the rear "floor" to get to it, good time to check the spare which is then exposed. Sadly Toyota has it mounted such that you can't get to the valve stem without removing the jack bracket that holds it in place then removing the tire to get to the outside of the rim. As such it isn't checked nearly as often as it should be. < 20 PSI in a tire that should have 60 PSI so clearly not checked in a few years at least. Since I had the pump out I set all the tires on all 3 cars. The spares in DW and my cars were both at 50 PSI. Guess I haven't checked often enough either!

Moved more firewood. Just have some odds and ends short pieces left. I would have finished this afternoon but several of the girls were helping and I didn't want to stop their bug foraging. 

Penelope is still being a b*tch on the roost. She tends not to go in until most of the other girls are already up, then proceeds to bully any bird below her in rank (which means the six 2017 "kids") and they run out of the coop. I got sick of it tonight after she shoved 5 of them off. Grabbed her and stuck her in the coop the younger birds had been using before I forced them to move to the more secure coop by not opening the door on the other one. Now she is stuck there until I decide to go down in the morning to open the barn.


----------



## Mike CHS

Do you have to go through all of that to get the spare out to use?


----------



## Bruce

Of course! Options in cars and trucks in the past have been:

Buried under the rear floor of the trunk (assuming there is a "floor" of some sort to make it flat over the spare
Suspended under the vehicle
Mounted on the back of some smaller SUVs
Plusses and minuses to each. 

With it underneath the "devices" that hold it in place and get rusty. And if you need to use it, most likely you are wearing clothes you don't want to be crawling under a vehicle to get to the spare. But you don't have to get anything out of the vehicle to access the spare.
With it under the floor, it is nice and clean but you do have to empty whatever is above it. 
Mounted on the back was easy access though you may have noticed that at least Toyota and Honda have changed that. Why? Because if you get hit in the rear, or manage to back yourself into a post, you destroy the rear door.
The '95 Odyssey I had was easier, the spare was mounted vertically in the back with a fabric cover zipped over it. Never had to use it though.


----------



## Mike CHS

I guess they have to make room for all the stuff you need whether you can get to it or not. 

I drove a 1962 Triumph TR3 that I restored in the early 80's until I got tired of having to be MacGyver to keep it on the road.


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## CntryBoy777

I don't like or trust those little donut tires, and since it is just me and Joyce, the spare is inside the van along with a floor jack....on the side of the road...I'm not dealing with the dang scissor jack.....hop out hit the 4 way lug wrench, pop the tire off put the other on, tighten, lower, and throw everything back in the van....I can still change one in under 10 minutes...


----------



## Bruce

The little donuts are better than what some cars come with these days, a can of "fix a flat" stuff. At least the donut can get you to a tire shop 50 miles away. I think the "can" is good for a couple of miles to the tire shop, IF there is one a couple of miles away. Few mid to smaller size vehicles even have room for a full size spare. In fact, though I was told differently, the spare on the '95 Odyssey wasn't full size. Bigger than a donut but not full size. 

Gotta have a full size van or a truck if you are going to carry a floor jack and full size spare! And yeah, those scissor jacks are truly only for emergencies. I bought a floor jack to swap the summer and winter tires.

Frost on the ground and cars this morning even though Mister NOAA said it was going to be low 40°s. Just started a fire in the woodstove, house was down to 62 which is a degree or 2 more than it will be for a high outside today.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'd rather have a plug kit in the vehicle instead of a can of stuff. I've plugged plenty of tires and never even jacked it up. I haven't talked to a single tire guy that likes the can stuff, because it is flamable and is dangerous for them when thay break the seal on their machine....plus, the liquid will damage the inside of the tire, if it is run too long.
Btw, sorry to hear about Trouble....guess ya named him properly tho.


----------



## Bruce

Not only that but the "goo" will destroy the now mandatory tire pressure monitors inside the tire! I don't know about all of them but the ones for our cars cost over $100 each which is why we don't have them in the winter tires on their own rims. (don't tell anyone but I make sure the yearly inspection is done when the summer tires are on the car. )

I've never tried to plug a tire though I gather it isn't too hard. IF I had a pump with me I could have done that to my wife's car some years back. Left the house at the same time, heading for the rink. She was in front and pulled into a lot not 1/2 mile from our house. Seems she picked up a screw in our driveway from the next door neighbor's construction. Since she had to open the rink, she took DD1 in my car and I was left to swap the donut on. Wouldn't have worked the last time I got a flat because I got two at the same time. Sidewalls blown when I was forced into a curb by an AH that changed lanes into me. If I had a beater rather than a fairly new car, you can bet his passenger side metal would have been ripped up and my tires would have been fine. And I would have made it to the airport to pick up my friend!


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is pretty basic and simple and if ya can see the screw or nail and can get in a position to pull it out and force the plug in, ya never have to even jack up the car or bust a lug. Nothing will repair a sidewall, except another tire.


----------



## Latestarter

There are also very inexpensive DC powered tire pumps that you can throw in the trunk or hide under a seat that will re-inflate the tire. You plug it into a cigarette lighter and simple as pie. Plugging the tire is easy if you can get to the hole. The only thing you have to be careful about is when pushing the plug in, that you don't push it too far and have it go completely through the hole and into the tire... Once that happens, you lose the plug when you pull the tool back out and it is inside the tire rather than lodged in the hole. So you have to start over. That's why it's nice if the plug cord is longer than the tool shaft so when you push and the tool slams all the way in against the handle, there's still plug left outside the tire hole. As was said, sidewalls aren't repairable...


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> There are also very inexpensive DC powered tire pumps that you can throw in the trunk or hide under a seat that will re-inflate the tire. You plug it into a cigarette lighter and simple as pie.


Yep, have one of those. TINY though, it would probably take an hour to inflate the tire from dead flat  I suppose I should buy a plug kit and keep it in the car with the pump. Now that we have discussed it, if I don't get a kit, I'll probably get a nail or screw in a tire. Of course if I DO get a kit, I'll never need it.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Just think of it as preventive maintainence then...I even plugged the front tire on the rider and it held all season, so far. Though, I had to use soapy water to find the hole....


----------



## Latestarter

I've plugged 3 times on the lawn tractor already. Something to do with running over thorn bushes/green briars. Who knew the tread on those garden tractor tires was 1/2 ply? Never plugged a regular vehicle tire. There's this little Hispanic tire shop in town and I pull in there. They pull the tire, water trough it, pull the offending object, bore and plug the hole then re-mount the tire for $7... and all in under ten minutes. Well worth the expense as I don't have to get all grimy/dirty/sweaty and waste several hours doing it. Just had a slow leak on the front left tire taken care of a couple days ago.


----------



## Bruce

Spent part of the day adding a 6' roost to the coop. Hoping the younger girls can find a spot Penelope won't chase them off of when she comes in at night.
Old right side: 


Current coop from left to right. Left side is the broody buster box support. But it is in the next stall over because the birds really seem to like to roost on it.
   

I tacked the board on the end so no one could accidentally shift too far toward the front of the coop and land in the nest box.

Just so you know @CntryBoy777, other than the screws it was made entirely of scrap  And that isn't just the new roost, EVERYTHING in there was "reclaimed".

I put Mint in the coop tonight, from the Alpaca stand. Guess how many birds were on the new roost! Right, the same number you see in the pictures


----------



## Mike CHS

They are definitely creatures of habit.


----------



## Bruce

Just about finished with the deck
Before. The plywood has been there for 4 years. About time to get a "Round to it"

   

Some construction details. I'm not fond of attaching the posts to the top of the decking. Had to notch around this plate:


cleats to carry the deck planks
  

Posts installed


----------



## Bruce

More deck construction. The last picture is before I had the right two midline supports in


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## CntryBoy777

That looks really Good there Bruce!!....is that cedar ya used?


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## Mike CHS

That is nice work and it makes an amazing difference in the look.


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## Bruce

More details, in case anyone is interested:

The balusters run through the support piece and are screwed to the end pieces of the panel. Those are then screwed into the posts. I don't like wood sitting on wood, sort of begs for rot so I put rubber "feet" on the midline supports.
   

The cap rail is attached to a baluster piece and then sits in notches in the panel support pieces  
  

They are held down with screws through the panel ends that go into the 2x2 under the cap rail. No screws going into the top of the cap rail to trap water and create rot.


----------



## Bruce

Yep, cedar. Spendy (only used clear for the cap rail and the midline supports though) but less likely to rot, no nasty PT splinters and it doesn't warp like PT.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm curious about how long that little project took you?  I really like some of the design technique you used on this.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I've got to do something with the porch here at the house, but need to stretch a couple more yrs out of this PT that is here. I'm thinking of renting a drum sander and sanding it down, then sealing it with something or staining it. I was thinking of replacing the warped railings, too.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Very nice @Bruce.  Thanks for sharing all of the pictures.  Great structural design!!


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## Latestarter

Legit deck flooring makes a world of difference over plywood. Super job, looks great!


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## greybeard

The usual reason for PT warping on deck rails relates to  the selection of the individual boards being used, more true if it's pine. Avoid any board with a big knot or grain oddity in it, especially if the knot is within 2' or so of an end.  It's guaranteed to curl up or outward if there is a knot near the end..the wood dries out more in the less dense section and the more dense section of the knotted area does not. Sealing it as quickly as possible after building and keeping it sealed helps, but can't completely offset the effects of knots and grain variations. Be very selective when choosing boards for deck railings, looking at each side of the board.
On vertical sections (vertical supports) it is not so evident, but any board installed flat and horizontal will go thru dry/wet cycles as humidity and rain comes, followed by sunny days. For horizontal runs, if it's in the budget, buy premium PT lumber, not the generic pt stuff right off the rack at Lowes or Home Depot. More expensive, but the treatment from the plant lasts much longer. I like to use pt lumber that is rated for below ground on my railings.

http://www.buellinspections.com/not-all-pressure-treated-lumber-is-created-equal/


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## Pastor Dave

Well Bruce, it ought to drain better now than having sheets of plywood. Seems like it would have been pretty slick with snow or even when wet before, but now it should function better. Looks good too.


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I'm curious about how long that little project took you?  I really like some of the design technique you used on this.


Not quantifiable since like everyone else's jobs, it started and stopped. If I had to guess, probably 20 hours, which means more likely closer to 40  Remember the deck framing was put up by the carpenters 4 years ago so that isn't included.

The balusters were kinda rough and not dimensionally equal. Maybe they run them through a planer one direction then a different planer for another side? In any case I ran them all through the open arm drum sander, took off probably 3/64ths over many passes to get them fairly smooth and uniform, still had a little hand sanding on some. Uniformity wouldn't have been as important if I didn't run them through the midline vertical supports (which keeps them in the "angle on top" position) but I sure didn't want to worry about having them not fit since I sealed them before assembly. Really hard to do the ends of the balusters, insides of the midline and backsides of the end pieces once installed  Plus rough hangs on to water and snow much more than smooth does.

And of course all the holes in the midlines were really time consuming. The jigsaw doesn't like to cut straight up and down even though I try not to push it, I still get a hole narrower on one side than the other so chisling and hand sanding became necessary. If I didn't care about snow sitting on the balusters (which presumably could speed rot) the holes in the midlines would have been a lot faster, I could have done them pretty quickly on my RouterBoss. But it doesn't slide at angles (other than 90° )

The posts weren't bad since they are bolted to the frame, DD2 helped me with that. The outside deck edge pieces again took time since I had to notch around the posts. As with any other deck the decking was reasonably fast but I sealed the bottoms and ends before installation (again hard/impossible to do later!) and since the sealer isn't supposed to get wet for 24 hours there were some days of delay doing them and the tops. In the end I put a tarp over the deck boards because even though it didn't rain, the nightly condensation wasn't much different. All the railing parts were sealed in the workshop. 

I used a Camo Marksman Pro tool to put the decking down. Other than at the board ends that have to be face screwed, the screws are all in the edge of the planks.

http://www.camofasteners.com/hidden-deck-fastening-system/marksman-tools/


I suppose I should put some stairs up to that opening  But like many things, there is the "must do first" which means some sort of level landing at the bottom (per codes). Wouldn't be hard if the ground didn't slope there, but it does. And I SHOULD probably go down below frost to support whatever I put there so not started yet, too daunting! There are stairs up to the existing (as usual poorly made) deck behind the south half of the house (I was standing on it for some pictures) so it is just a longer walk, not a jump. 

The ice/snow slippery bit on the plywood wasn't a big deal. No reason to go out there in the winter OTHER than to push snow off.


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## Bruce

Cassie laid her first egg yesterday, 42g, bluish/green.


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## CntryBoy777

It seems that with all the rock ya have there ya could use rock to level out the ground for the step base/foundation, but this is a southerner suggesting it, remember.....
What did ya use as a sealer?


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## Bruce

Yes, plenty of rock! Don't know that I want to dig down 4' (frost level) and fill it with rock. I'd probably run into rocks doing it though, I suspect the excavator didn't move more than he needed to when he smoothed the ground. I might just cheat and ignore that frost line thing. Maybe it will be solid enough.

I used Thompson's Water Seal. No idea if it was the best choice or not but I had 4 gallons that were given to us a couple of years ago by friends when they moved to TN. "Waste not, want not" right?


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## Bruce

For all the garden efforts:
- 3 sweet potato plants yielded 11 oz of "crop", the largest was 3.4 oz
- 1 russet potato plant yielded 2.25 pounds, the largest was 9 oz, basically a regular size potato
- 30 onion plants yielded 2 pounds 1.2 oz - about 20 onions and some were no thicker than a green onion. None were near as big as the ones we grew last year and be only planted 10. Probably got 3x the weight.
- 10 shallot bulbs yielded 2.9 oz - 6 bulbs total.
- Threw away the 3 Winternut squashes, they were still mostly green and were getting soft. Since the Red Kuri never got started we have no winter squash for soup.


 

Basically 

- The artichokes did well 
- The (they were supposed to be cherry tomatoes?!?) 2 big tomato plants have a lot of fruit that are finally getting red now that they are about to die. Not near as much flavor as smaller tomatoes, I sure wouldn't choose to plant whatever variety they are. The "big" tomato I would likely plant is an Early Girl but since DW won't eat tomatoes, DD1 shouldn't (nightshade intolerance) that leaves DD2 and me and she likes the "snacking size" Sungolds ... which is why that is the ONE tomato plant I bought!
- The Sungolds are still producing well, I've rigged an old clear shower curtain and a blue tarp around the tall "frame" hoping to keep them going as long as possible. I know you can put unripe ones in a paper bag but they never get any better than grocery store winter tomatoes (which I don't buy because they have little flavor)
- Got 3 orange peppers off the 2 plants, they finally set a few more but they'll not get close to turning from green so DD2 won't eat them. She only likes orange which is why I bought those 2 plants. I do have a cover for the plants to extend their season a bit, DW and I aren't so picky.

I made some Pico de Gallo with tomato, onion and cilantro from the garden and garlic from the farmer's market, lime juice from a bottle. I don't "do" hot peppers. As mentioned, not at much tomato flavor as it should have since I used the big tomatoes.


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## Bruce

Cassie laid her second egg today 

Moved the new ramp from running parallel to the back roosts to starting at the right side of the 2' roost and going up over the nest boxes parallel to the new roost. There were 2 issues:

Some of the birds are so stupid they hopped on to the 2' pole under the ramp and couldn't figure out why they were stuck. Funny they never do that on the left side ramp!
Yue likes to sleep on the far right forward roost and would get fussy with any bird coming up the ramp in her direction even if they hopped to the 4' roost long before they got near her.
Grabbed Penelope and stuck her in the "spare" coop again. She just can't stop annoying the other girls when they try to get up for "bed" and then they run back out of the coop before the auto door closes and get stuck out in the alley when it does.


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## CntryBoy777

That harvest is pretty disheartening....I wish I knew what to tell ya or suggest, but I'd either do some heavy research or just forget it all together....and buy local....
Since change is new to the hens, I'd change all the roost poles and put them in a new place, then nobody has a favorite place and they all have to figure it out together.....glad that Cassie is starting out to be regular for ya.....


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## Mike CHS

I think you like your milder summer temps but I'll take our somewhat hotter temps.  I'm not sure how you can garden at all with your short seasons.


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## Bruce

We certainly don't garden like you do! You were pulling food out before we even planted many things. 

I was expecting the potatoes in tires (never got more than 1 on though) to be growing not only in the ground but also in the hay in the tires. Nope, even though I added hay as the plants grew which presumably causes them to send roots out, nada.


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## greybeard

I tried growing russets in 5 empty mineral tubs one year, just a little good soil in the bottom, planted the seed taters, and added soil as they grew until the tub was full of soil. The plants looked good and healthy. Really expected a lot of taters, but found just little tiny things when the leaves died back..and ants got into 2 of the tubs even tho I had the tubs up on cinder blocks and not right on the ground. Pretty disappointed.


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## Bruce

So it isn't just me with a black thumb!


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## CntryBoy777

Naw, I wouldn't say so....it is some very difficult conditions that ya have to deal with there and a short season to boot. I would check into cool weather crops....cabbage, broccoli, carrots, and such....check with locals on what and how they grow things....but the list won't be very long....fruit and berries would/should do okay....but, the soil could be a problem.


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## Bruce

Carrots and broccoli didn't come up, cabbage got eaten by something soon after starting. Didn't try carrots here before but both cabbage and broccoli were OK last year. Probably need to make a raised bed for the carrots and just fill it with potting soil given the quality of what we have to dig in.


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## CntryBoy777

With the cabbage and broccoli, start the seed indoors about 4-6wks before last frost and set in a sun facing window....and since there is less hrs of light up that way....use a flourescent grow light for a couple of hrs after sun begins to fade. That will get ya ahead of the game for days til harvest to produce the fruit....raised beds would be really good, just be sure to use some quarter to half inch hardware cloth on the bottom to protect from ground dwelling critters. The only plants we don't start indoors here are beans, peas, and corn...they are straight sown. If ya like leafy greens they should do good there. We have an array of grow lights that we utilize for house plants and seed starts....


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## Mike CHS

Is Alpaca manure hot or is it like sheep manure?  We compost some but mostly we put right on the beds in the winter so it's broken down by planting time plus we put some directly on after the plants were up. We usually have a decent garden but we found sheep pellets to be great for the soil.


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## Latestarter

I believe carrots need sandy/loose soil to do best. I know to store them long term you lay them horizontal and cover with moist sand. When I lived in New England, I always had very good luck with swiss chard. The cold doesn't seem to kill it, just slow it down. As long as it gets sun, it will continue to grow until such time as it bolts. I used to harvest fresh chard right through winter. Never really got 2 years out of it, but if you let it bolt, it will self seed and you'll have new plants coming up with the spring thaw.

Since the alpacas drop pellets, like sheep/goats/rabbits, I'd expect you could use it straight up. A huge advantage you have with alpacas is they designate a dumping pile and try to always go in that same spot. So it's not like you have to collect it up from all over the paddock.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Since the alpacas drop pellets, like sheep/goats/rabbits, I'd expect you could use it straight up. A huge advantage you have with alpacas is they designate a dumping pile and try to always go in that same spot. So it's not like you have to collect it up from all over the paddock.


Yep. Though their "pile" seems to be more of a "trail". They started in 1 location a year ago and have slowly "walked" it. Probably 30' long at this point. Makes sense I guess, you can only poop so high. The chickens have helped with the older stuff so that is where I like to "mine" as it is already broken down some and doesn't stick to the shovel as much. 

And yes, you can use it as "laid" unlike chicken manure.  If I could get my act together, I'd clean out the garden when everything is dead and move the 'paca poo into it. 

@CntryBoy777  In the past I've bought started plants. Last year I did start the broccoli and cabbage from seed indoors but it got REALLY rangy. Probably started it too soon. It was amazing that any of them managed to grow outside, they were that scrawny. I'll have to try that again next year, just later. That HAS to be done with things like peppers and tomatoes. The peppers need to be started in February even though they aren't put out until Memorial Day. I've done OK in the past (except this year) with beans and cucumbers planted outside from seed.


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## CntryBoy777

If the plants are getting really thin and stringy, your light is too far away from the plant....it should be 1-2" above the top and adjusted as it does grow....also, a little dashboard sized fan will move enough air thru them for circulation....I have the lights rigged with chains and S hooks for easy manipulation.....


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## Bruce

You are right, I went with the "easy" method. A 29 gallon aquarium that has a leak up on a side joint. So if any water leaked from the pots, no problem. It also has a 2 tube light that sits on top, what could be better? But the light can't be moved down. Of course that makes sense, don't really need your electric light dropping into the aquarium  And the result is stringy plants. Need a better method next year.


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## CntryBoy777

I'll take a couple of pics of the grow area we utilized in the trlr, one was in a closet and the other in a shipping crate turned into a cabinet....if ya wish to give ya an idea. Having an indoor cat we had to protect from curiosity. We just use meat trays and baking sheets to set the pots on for any runoff water, combined with the lights it also provides humidity to keep plants from drying out from the heat of the bulbs....


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## Bruce

So as not to post too much redundant stuff to the web, Veronica's first egg:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/the-nfc-b-day-chat-thread.1050266/page-1991#post-19073879

I replaced the piece of handrail with a 2x4 (*) since it seemed the handrail, though a good shape for chicken feet when roosting, was too narrow for their comfort. The replacement goes all the way to the front wall so they have 7' feet. I also moved it some inches toward the inside of the coop so Yue wouldn't be annoyed at any girl coming too close to her end of the original roost to get on the new roost.  I've not seen any of them use the new ramp. They either fly right to the roost or get on the forward one that is parallel to the back wall and walk over to the new one.




* To make you non perfectionists happy, I pieced together 2 pieces of 2x4 with a big "patch" board underneath and screwed the heck out of it


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## Bruce

Weather shift:
Low last night - 55°. High today 74°, winds gusting to 35 MPH until 8 PM, slowing some then picking back up to 25-30 from 11 PM to 7 AM. 

Low tonight 45°, high tomorrow 47°. 

Low tomorrow night 35°, high Monday 54°.


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## CntryBoy777

It is 77° here now, a low tonite of 48...high tomorrow of 69 and low tomorrow nite of 44, then temps rise back up some to mid 70s as highs.....waiting on the rain to get here now.


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## Bruce

Pretty "brisk" for you this time of year isn't it?


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## CntryBoy777

It really is more normal for us to have a frost in October and cool spells off and on. In recent yrs it hasn't been the case, but it is about time for a more normal winter here, tho I sure don't like the really cold...the cool spells are certainly welcomed......


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## Mike CHS

Bruce - is your first frost date already here or coming soon?


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## Pastor Dave

Our temp swing occurred today after 8am. 73degs this am cooling with rain and wind. Down to abt 57 or 55 now. Supposed to get down to 42 tonight.


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## Latestarter

The front died long before it got over me so not a drop of rain. Nice humidity before it arrived, nice cool dry air after it passed late this am. House is opened up now, as it has been all day. I may regret that in the morning as we're supposed to be down mid to upper 40s. High tomorrow low 70's and  similar for the next few days. love it. Just wish we could get a little rain... Gonna spa soak later before bed and expect to sleep like a baby. Always do when it gets cold.


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## Bruce

The northern end of that front came through here. Amazing definition of the front on the radar, looked like a straight line all the way down to Joe, then Fred, then Mike.


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## Latestarter

I'm sure it probably also hit or will hit @dejavoodoo114 and @Mini Horses and of course @farmerjan and then that group over in the Carolinas as well. I know there are a lot of other folks over that way too. Hope everyone is enjoying the change in temps as much as I am. Maybe you folks way up north, not so much...


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## Bruce

Right you are. I'm planning to start the woodstove back up in the morning. It will be going at least a few days though MAYBE it can be left off during the day later in the week.


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## dejavoodoo114

Latestarter said:


> I'm sure it probably also hit or will hit @dejavoodoo114 and @Mini Horses and of course @farmerjan and then that group over in the Carolinas as well. I know there are a lot of other folks over that way too. Hope everyone is enjoying the change in temps as much as I am. Maybe you folks way up north, not so much...



Right at this moment I am sitting on my screened in porch hoping DH's cat stays on my legs because it is cold and the wind is DEFINITELY picking up! I am looking forward to the lower temps!



Bruce said:


> Right you are. I'm planning to start the woodstove back up in the morning. It will be going at least a few days though MAYBE it can be left off during the day later in the week.



We have been eyeing the wood pile, trying to be good and thinking ahead... Now the cold is coming and the wood pile hasn't changed! At least we have quite a few trees DH downed last year that just need to be hauled to the house with the tractor, cut into rounds and run through the wood splitter. If only the cat actually liked me I would be so much warmer right now!


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## Mini Horses

We're having the same up & down weather here.  Warm, cool, warm, cool --  you start in jeans and change to shorts.  This week we've have gloomy & drizzle all week long.  Same tomorrow, then Tues we should see the sun again.  So glad.   Some 40-45 night temps coming but, that's fine as we go to 70 days.  Ok with it.  It's good sleep & work weather.   Saving on A/C & no heat yet.

I could be fine if it would stay these temps for another 6 months. Ain't gonna happen!

Next best thing would be to just see snow from pictures of those up North and not MY backporch.


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## babsbag

It's in the high 70's here. Might get rain on Thursday and then back to the high 70's again. Won't see frost for another month...I like CA weather...A LOT.  I still have a garden growing, squash, cukes, green beans, corn (not sure the corn will make it, but it is in tassle), peppers, and tomatoes. Finally getting tomatoes, it was too hot all summer for anything but Cherry ones to set. It could stay like this all winter and I'd be good...the fruit trees not so much, but I would be ok.


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## greybeard

much cooler here this morning too, and the front came thru dry, which I'm glad of..a waning crescent moon and  stars fill the perfectly clear sky right now. Supposed to be in the upper 40s tonight and tomorrow night.


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## Mike CHS

Seems we are all experiencing the same weather for a change.  We got a good bit of rain out of the front and the same drop in temps which makes it pleasantly cool this morning.


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## farmerjan

Getting cool here after a BEAUTIFUL Sunday.  Supposed to drop to the upper 30's the next two nights with day temps in the 60-70's.  More like fall but I didn't mind the 60-80's we were having.  It did get very humid there a few days, and after a month of no rain and no humidity, it was hard to readjust.  We got about 1.6 "  total rain last week from Nate, it greened things up, got the spring running so I am not hauling as much water; plus we moved 7 heifers out to another place to take some pressure off the spring.
Sad thing is, the dry month, totally did away with any real fall pasture regrowth;  even if we get some real decent moisture now, it is getting too late in the year for any pastures to come back much. 
We have plenty of hay, and will cut back some numbers due to selling some old cows and any that are open because we lost 2 pastures this year.  May be getting an old one back after 5 years or so, but not going to count chickens til the eggs are hatched.  We do have several places that have not had cattle on for several months that we "stockpile"  the grass for fall/winter grazing.... but won't have the flexibility to move things around without these 2 places.

Going to get the fuel oil tank filled, and start getting things ready for winter but we will get more nice weather after this front goes through.  Still will make some more small square bales of hay on a couple of places.  I have been running the deutz 1006 with the 10 ft bushhog getting some of the pastures cleaned up too. 
Moved some cows home from one pasture & sold some 450 lb steer calves, preg checked and had 13 of the 14 preg so that was good.  Got more to move and check yet but that'll get done as the fall progresses. 
Bred some AI and will get them out with the bull for cleanup in case any didn't settle.  Then the fall calving cows that are calving now, and still due, will be going to these stockpiled pastures with the bulls in a couple weeks to get rebred for next fall, and to graze into the winter all according to how much snow we get.  Last year we grazed all winter due to no snow cover and fed less hay than normal.


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## Bruce

dejavoodoo114 said:


> If only the cat actually liked me I would be so much warmer right now!


Many cats really like canned tuna. You could put some in a cloth bag and tie it around your neck


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## Latestarter




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## Bruce

Started working on implementation of @CntryBoy777's idea for hauling winter water less distance. I had to run power to where the repurposed plastic rain barrel will sit. The closest source was power into an outlet on the west wall that feeds a light switch for all the interior lights. So I put in a metal junction box above the outlet, then had a "lightbulb" moment. The metal cover for the junction box is made for an outlet or switch, why not put the outlet in there rather than feeding it back down to the plastic box (*)! The first picture is left of the door into the barn, the right picture is to the right of that door. All repurposed parts other than the outlet cover above the barrel. And that only because the first one I found happened to be new in its plastic "envelope". If I had ANY sort of decent organization, I'm sure I could have found a used one.


 

I plan to box the barrel in with 2" rigid foam, the fitting for the overflow hose should make a good path for the stock tank heater cord. Biggest concern is if that spigot can be kept from freezing. Hopefully the warm water in the barrel will radiate enough heat through the metal to keep the valve safe.

Well, actually the biggest concern is:
Does ANYONE know where I put the stock tank heater, aquarium heater and reptile waterfall pump last spring????? I've looked everywhere in the lower barn, 3 times  Seems the best idea would have been to put them in a bag or box to keep them from being coated with dust (as is everything non mobile in the lower barn). I can't think of a reason I would store them anywhere else 

* the outlet's screws had kinda glued themselves into the plastic so probably wouldn't rethread anyway. They wouldn't back all the way out. I was able to strip the plastic off the screws by threading them into the metal box.


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## CntryBoy777

Stuff like that happens to me all the time....glad I'm not the only one....I can assure ya tho, it'll be in the very last place ya look for it....


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## Bruce

And right after the replacements arrive when I give up looking!

You know, things you are looking for are ALWAYS in the last place you look ... because you stop looking when you find them


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## CntryBoy777

Just like when ya put them up, ya told yourself ya was gonna put them there so ya wouldn't forget where ya put them, and they would be handy when needed....


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> The closest source was power into an outlet on the west wall that feeds a light switch for all the interior lights. So I put in a metal junction box above the outlet, then had a "lightbulb" moment. The metal cover for the junction box is made for an outlet or switch, why not put the outlet in there rather than feeding it back down to the plastic box (*)


I try not to ever do that. Nothing more aggravating than to go to add or replace an outlet and find the same breaker/fuse that made the outlet circuit safe to work on also killed the lights in the room.


----------



## Bruce

Well, there is that. But there was no other circuit anywhere near. I agree, I would prefer to have multiple circuits so one could be switched off and still have power at alternate outlets. You have nearby power for a work light if the one you shut off controls the lights. I played it safe, given I don't know which breaker controls what down in the lower part of the barn. I shut off the main 70A breaker, the hammer and the cordless drill still worked, as did the "manual" screwdrivers   

I am not the original "electrician" in this barn  The guy we bought this place from did some pretty bizarre (and dangerous) things. Like the first thing coming out of the service panel on 1 circuit is a metal box with an outlet and the lightswitch for the lights in the workshop (north end of the upper part of the barn). The ground wire coming out of the service panel was connected to nothing. Might have been touching the box and so the outlet and switch may have been grounded. But the wire that left the box had the ground wire cut off at the edge of the plastic/rubber sheathing. NOTHING beyond that box was grounded. And at least 75% of the outlets were reverse wired. You KNOW how hard it is to tell which screw should be the hot and which the common on those outlets. Brass colored screws on one side, silver on the other and the words "black" and "white" next to the screws, just SO confusing!


----------



## Latestarter

Couldn't you just use an extension cord run through the rafters from the existing outlet over to where the barrel is?


----------



## Bruce

I could but I'd rather not so I didn't  Electrical wiring isn't all that hard (if you use your brain a tiny bit) and other than some time, that part of the "project" cost me nothing. I have the bottom half of the insulating enclosure "framed up". I need another sheet of rigid foam. I cut a 6"x6" hole to reach the spigot and can plug it back up with the piece of foam I cut out. I'll need a short piece of hose that can store inside the enclosure and be long enough to reach out to fill a container. I figure about a foot to 18" will be enough. I got a rubber stopper at the lumberyard that fits in the hole in the barrel for the overflow hose and plastic fitting and cut a ~5/16" groove in the edge for the heater cord. 

I found the missing items RIGHT where @CntryBoy777 said I would.


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## CntryBoy777

I always try to be helpful...even from far-far away....


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## Mike CHS

I try not to use extension cords if I can keep from it.  Even in my shop the majority of plugs are in the overhead metal trusses.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> I always try to be helpful...even from far-far away....


And you are! 

4 eggs today. One from Nuit (2015 BA), one from an Exchequer Leghorn, one from Cassie (EE) and Veronica's (Welsummer) 3rd egg. Cassie managed to get up into USDA Medium (barely) with this one.


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## Mike CHS

We had one egg today that had a visible line around it like it had cracked and then sealed back.  Never saw that before.


----------



## Mini Horses

Are your girls molting &/or odd lay habits with lessening light?  I find that during this transition time there are some odd things.  An almost round egg, a long one, odd deposits of shell material that looks lumpy or like sand added on.  LOL     Not every day but during this time of year.   I don't add light in winter, so laying takes a rest for many.   I'll still get eggs, just not like Spring & Summer.   New hens should start within the next month.   They are EEs so should be some fun eggs.


----------



## babsbag

What ???? Are you telling me that extension cords are not for using as a permanent cord that is run across the driveway and driven over multiple times a day? Are you telling me that my DH has been doing this wrong for these last nine years? 

I dug a trench, (well my bobcat did) and ran 2" conduit and placed an ungodly size of service wire in it, (I believe it was 1-1-1-3) for the dairy trailers and I still have an extension cord running across the driveway.


----------



## Pastor Dave

babsbag said:


> I dug a trench, (well my bobcat did) and ran 2" conduit and placed an ungodly size of service wire in it, (I believe it was 1-1-1-3) for the dairy trailers and I still have an extension cord running across the driveway.



Ahhh, projects IN-PROGRESS!


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## greybeard

babsbag said:


> What ???? Are you telling me that extension cords are not for using as a permanent cord that is run across the driveway and driven over multiple times a day? Are you telling me that my DH has been doing this wrong for these last nine years?
> 
> I dug a trench, (well my bobcat did) and ran 2" conduit and placed an ungodly size of service wire in it, (I believe it was 1-1-1-3) for the dairy trailers and I still have an extension cord running across the driveway.


There is wire that comes closer to being rated for being strung across a driveway that gets occasional use, tho I can't really recommend it for being run over daily. 
It has a thicker weather resistant outer covering, is very flexible and has more paper leader inside. 
Look for soow, seoow, and sjoow. Good abrasive resistance in sjoow and soow. 
https://solutions.borderstates.com/soow-seoow-and-stoow-what-is-the-difference/

(I used a lot of it in different applications where vehicular traffic and weather exposure was common, it ain't cheap tho.)


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## babsbag

I really just want him to put in a couple of weather resistant outlets and get rid of the extension cord. He knows that it is only "temporary", the sub panel has a ton of room, it is just a matter of finding the time. When he is gone all week it makes for busy weekends and that is supposed to be his "rest" time from work too. I keep him pretty occupied with projects.


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> We had one egg today that had a visible line around it like it had cracked and then sealed back.  Never saw that before.


Zorra was laying eggs like that this past year before she started to moult. Almost like they hit a "hard narrow" spot in the shell works that kinda crunched the fat middle part. It was odd, but they all seemed to be properly "resealed".

@Mini Horses, the 2 Y/O girls that are still laying (ie the 4 that are not moulting) are actually laying LARGER eggs that normal for them. I think maybe because while they were laying like gang busters all summer, they are slowing down, one egg every 2 or 3 days now so they have the "resources" to "supersize" them.  I don't do winter light either. I figure (hopefully) that they may lay longer if they don't get worn out early. One of the 2 Y/O that is moulting OFTEN has small "calcium balls" on her normal eggs. They are smaller than a grain of salt and rub off if one cares. 

Pretty much finished up the "winter water source" today. I put enough water in it to cover the drain cock, just to make sure it doesn't leak. Probably should have done that BEFORE making the enclosure. Just my luck, it will leak. Looked OK right after I added the water though. I still need to get a hose. I found a 3' one in the workshop from "I don't know where and I don't know how old" and need to test it to make sure the end fittings are OK. The spigot doesn't leave much room for a hose, it faces almost straight down and is only a couple of inches above the bottom. 

 There are some chickens that are going to be pooping Panther Pink  D@mn things couldn't give me ONE morning to get the lower half of the rigid foam enclosure covered with something. Pecked out 3 of the corners (2" foam!), before I went down at 9:30. I encased it in cardboard and used spray foam afterward to fill in those corners. Then I went to get another sheet of foam so I could make the top half of the enclosure. I also got another rubber stopper for the heated waterer for the chickens' "in coop" nipple pipe. I've always just laid the lid on top over the cords for the aquarium heater and the reptile waterfall pump. But there is always some dust that gets in. Since the rubber plug for the "winter water source" worked well, I figured I might as well put one in the middle of the screw on lid of the 5 gallon drink "cooler". I also cleaned out the "cooler" as I do every fall.


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## Mike CHS

At the least all of this work might make not having to haul water so much better doing the chores.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya know I was thinking as ya was talking there...ya could use a washer hose with some pipe insulation on it...since is such a short distance....it would be flexible enough to move around and give the hose extra protection from the severely single digit temps. But, it is sounding really good and should save some hard work....bundled up, on frozen ground, hauling water. Gonna get started on my set-up here very shortly...


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## Bruce

Hopefully. Sure would be nice if the plastic pipe to the frost free "yard hydrant" hadn't gone belly up! 

@CntryBoy777's idea is to fill the barrel for use after I have to pull the hoses for freezing weather. And since we almost always have a thaw in January, I can refill it then. I think it will hold 40 or 50 gallons. That should cut down carrying water from the kitchen to the alpacas substantially. The chickens are easy, their 5 gallon container lasts a good long while so I would just bring a gallon or two every week to top it up. While they don't like to walk in snow, I think they like to eat it so they don't drink all that much from the nipples in the coop.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> give the hose extra protection from the severely single digit temps



single digits isn't the big problem, double digits BELOW 0°F is the BIG problem 
My "plan" is to tuck the empty hose into the insulated box since the rain barrel is round and the box square, there is vertical space in the corners. I just have to make sure the hose can drain out before I do said tucking. A piece of pipe insulation couldn't hurt since it doesn't take long to freeze non moving water at those temps! I think the stock tank heater only goes up to 40° so it isn't like there is a lot of residual heat.


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## Bruce

Hmmm, double post.


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## CntryBoy777

It may be more residual than ya think...if it can maintain that 40° at those cold temps. The ground at that temp will melt the snow that is frozen above it, until the temp of the ground drops. Being shielded from the outside ambient temps will aid greatly inside the barn, too. I really am anxious to find out if it does work for ya....and certainly Hoping so....


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## babsbag

Reading about all your water issues and freezing temps makes me thankful for my winters. My only concern this year is moving the does water back into the barn so they don't have to get wet to get a drink. The problem is that Alondra likes to "dig" in the water trough so the ground around the trough stays muddy. I really don't want that in the barn. I have been thinking of pouring a concrete slab around the trough. The farm where I bought Jumanji uses lick-its for their goats, no dirty troughs but also no place for Alondra to play in the water...she likes her water.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> It may be more residual than ya think...if it can maintain that 40° at those cold temps. The ground at that temp will melt the snow that is frozen above it, until the temp of the ground drops. Being shielded from the outside ambient temps will aid greatly inside the barn, too. I really am anxious to find out if it does work for ya....and certainly Hoping so....


If it does, I'll give you the credit. If it doesn't I'll blame me for listening to a stupid idea 

The barrel in its rigid foam "house" is sitting on a platform about 1 foot high. It is sort of a grate with 2x4s running horizontally with a 2x4 space between each piece of actual wood. It was placed over the frost free spigot, I assume so there was a flat surface when they wanted to fill something and any excess water could go down to the (small bit) of rocks underneath. I leveled a space nearby and moved the platform away from the spigot. 

The barn, having a dirt floor, does stay warmer than the outside for some time until it stays cold long enough to freeze the ground inside.


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## CntryBoy777

Just so ya know....I've never applied for a patent for anything, but some of those ideas have proven to be worthwhile....many have made sense at the time, but there seemed to be something that wasn't thought of or factored in that caused the failure.......


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## Bruce

I figure at the VERY least, it will work to some temperature below when I can use the frost free spigot coming out of the house foundation (ie, nothing below 33°) so even if the spigot on the rain barrel (for which I can neither give you credit nor blame) doesn't work at really low temps, there should be many weeks when I don't have to carry water from the kitchen sink


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## Mike CHS

Not having to carry water is always a win.


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## Bruce

News updates 

Got the water barrel done. I had to put a second "shorter" piece of 2" foam under the barrel so I could get a hose attached. I guess they don't expect you to place them directly on the ground.
Got some organic garlic at the health food store and planted it yesterday. I've never tried garlic before but October is the time to plant it so what the heck, we'll try. It was planted in a lot of really well composted horse manure and stall shavings mixed into the garden 'soil'. Like no "fresher" than 6 years old. Grows REALLY tall grass in the pile. If it works we'll have 12 heads of garlic next summer/fall.
Cleaned out the garden, except for the chard which isn't quite dead yet. Dug out all the weeds/grass yesterday that were growing there (*) but first I had to run the string trimmer over all the "non planted" areas so I could get to them more easily  I need more time in the summer!
Put the cultivator on the trimmer today and mixed everything up, including what the woodchuck added when it tunneled under the mound the squash was on. He had to contend with a lot of rocks too. But he left them all in the ground around the cherry tomato plant instead of removing them. I had to remove them before cultivating, some were as big as softballs.
"Spread" a dump cart load of fairly fresh 'paca poo on all the "plantable" areas and hopefully it will break down over the winter. If things go well, we might actually be ready to plant early season crops when the time is right rather than having to do all those things first (and not having time). That would be novel!
Note that the boys were not even slightly interested in what I was doing over in their 'paca poo "trail". They stayed over by the solar panels, Laddie was in their dust bath space. 

* because I never seem to have time to weed when they are small and easy to get rid of!!


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## CntryBoy777

I apologize for not getting those pics for ya, but will make a point to get them tomorrow of the grow box. It is really easy to set up and will give ya a good headstart for the growing season there.


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## Bruce

I'm still trying to understand why seedlings you start indoors get rangy if the light is too far away (like 1') but ones you start outdoors don't when the light source is way, WAY far away. The grow box has to be "cat proof", one reason I liked the aquarium setup 

I just found out we will be "empty nesters" for a month starting on the 4th. DD1 is going to house sit for one of her Theatre on Ice team members while she, daughter and husband are in California. Apparently he has some need of a REALLY special specialist for jaw surgery. DD2 has to go with her because DD2 has a car and DD1 doesn't  Somehow we get to board their cats free of charge for the month. Of course we usually do but at least DD2 feeds them in the evening and cleans the litter boxes after she does the dishes. And DD1 (in theory) cleans the litter boxes when she gets up (which is about 11 or noon). 

As with the alpacas, the cats are treated really poorly, I also clean the litter boxes every morning after I feed the cats. I bet not many cats have servants to clean their litter boxes at least 3 times a day.


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## CntryBoy777

Our inside cat won't go if the litter hasn't been scooped, she will wake ya up to scoop it....during the day she will come tell me when it needs scooping, and also have to stay with her to eat....I guess she is afraid of the toilet monster getting her, so I have to stand guard for her....
Almost forgot about the light, the intensity of the sun is the same at any range and hits all the way around the plant, top to bottom. The intensity of the bulb lessens greatly with every inch of distance and isn't the same around, or top to bottom....so, thus ya get overstretching and if their isn't and breeze from a small fan the stem gets spindley and is weak.


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## Bruce

You OGRE you! 
And I thought OUR cats were spoiled. Maybe you need one of those automatic litter boxes. Sorry I can't recommend any because I've never had one to know how well they do, or do not, work.


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## CntryBoy777

Got those pics for ya Bruce....
    ....it hasn't been touched since Spring, so it is a bit ragged and dirty right now...the cabinet is on casters so I'll be moving it up to the house for use this next time....
The door keeps cats out and run-off water in the tray adds humidity along with detering felines.


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## Latestarter

What the heck there Fred... looks like one of those wacky weed grow out chambers there. You been doing some extra curricular farming for $$ over there?


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## CntryBoy777

....nope, it is our garden starting box. I got the crate when I was truck driving and living in Fl...it works great for starting tomatoes, squash, peppers, and such...to get a jump on garden stuff, because Joyce being ADHD can't wait for the weather to break....patience isn't in her vocabulary....
In fact she over wintered the poinsettia in it last winter.


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## Bruce

Nice sturdy crate to hang the height adjustable lights. 

I dunno know Fred, that looks mighty complicated to duplicate 
Do they even sell plant spectrum CFLs?

I do have a big cardboard box I could run some wood across to hold up fluorescent light fixtures. I have a 2 tube 24" one on the aquarium and I think a 24" single tube one as well. Now, as to WHERE to put it to keep the cats out ...


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## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> Not having to carry water is always a win.


Oh...I wouldn't say .....always............


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## CntryBoy777

Those CFLs are not full spectrum, they are daylight 100watt equivalent bulbs. Yeh, it isn't anything special, but it works....


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## AClark

CFL's don't nail full spectrum, for that you need the fancy stuff like the metal halide bulbs - I used ot have a grow set up for carnivorous plants using a MH bulb, and it works great. I believe the spectrum is 4600 or something like that for full sun. 
I'll be back to growing carnivorous plants this spring, they are some neat little things for sure - plus pretty to grow in the garden and catch bugs.


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## Baymule

Just got caught up, dunno why I never get alerts. Your porch looks awesome! Job well done, I know you will enjoy that. Of course, winter is coming and it will snow, but you could always build a snowman to keep you company while you sit out on your new porch!


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## Bruce

Might need to batten down the hatches!


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## CntryBoy777

Oooo!!....look at all those different hues of purple and lavender going on there....I don't know about the Hatches, but firing up that woodstove might not be a bad Idea....


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## Sara Ranch

Time to pull out the long johns and add another blanket to the bed!  Stay warm!


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Oooo!!....look at all those different hues of purple and lavender going on there....I don't know about the Hatches, but firing up that woodstove might not be a bad Idea....


Already done though at the moment we wouldn't consider it all that cold for a wood fire. Any leaves that are still on the trees now sure won't be by Tuesday if that wind really does come through.


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## AClark

Yikes, that weather! It warmed up here today, 74 or so, the last two days were cold and sucky. High winds and low temps just aren't my thing. 

I don't know how y'all that live where it's cold get the motivation to go outside every day. When it's cold, I do it because I have to, but I make it as fast as possible!


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## CntryBoy777

After I posted I saw where that TS Phillippe is headed up that way...and then, that the map was a power outage map...please for give me for just glancing and assuming it was temp related....ya might be right to batten down the hatches after all....sure hope ya don't lose power for Sure....will your solar panels at least run your lights and fridge?


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## Bruce

Nope! Unless you have battery storage, which we do not, the inverter shuts down when it doesn't detect line power. Presumably that is to protect the power company workers while they fix downed lines. If you have the proper battery set up there is something that cuts power going out to the world but sends a "line power" signal to the inverter so it will still "collect" from the panels. 

Kinda sucks really, seems if the grid is down one should still have power. There is a switch at the meters they can turn off so no power can go out. I guess they are worried some numbskull will flip it back on after they shut it off or something.


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## CntryBoy777

That has been the main reason I haven't pursued solar very much...the cost of batteries and the maintenance of them is too high $ for my liking. I can understand the power company's concern and really don't blame them. I didn't know if there was a transfer switch or something that would supply the house directly. Y'all be Safe up there and stay Aware.


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## Baymule

Winter storms......


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## Sara Ranch

I have battery storage and my batteries (ALL of them) drained out last night.  Lost power.    Luckily the generator could be started to help out.

I am super careful on cloudy/stormy/overcast days about usage.

It's super cold and windy here.  Hope you are much warmer with calmer air!


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## Latestarter

Where are you located Sara? Was it upstate NY or something? You really should consider putting at least your general location in your profile.


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## Sara Ranch

If I did things correctly, my profile should now include where I live - WV.     (Does it? Does it?)


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## CntryBoy777

Sara Ranch said:


> If I did things correctly, my profile should now include where I live - WV.     (Does it? Does it?)


Yes it does....ya did it correctly....good job!....

Ya okay up there Bruce?


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## Latestarter

How's things way up there in the white country? My favorite oldest daughter in ME has been without power since yesterday morning. She's said it looks like another day before they get it back.

Thanks Sara  WV is a beautiful state. Driven through it many times. Was one of the (many) places I considered retiring to but chose down here in TX in the end. Looks like another powerful frontal line building up and headed east. Lower portion of it is about at Dallas/Ft Worth right now and I should be seeing it in about 2-3 hours. The northern part of it stretches from Nebraska all the way through eastern KS and down into MO... All headed your way.


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## Baymule

Yay! More rain for us!!  The grass seed I sowed last week before the much needed 2 inches of rain we got, is just starting to sprout. I sowed another 50 pounds of rye grass awhile ago and some white Dutch clover in our yard. A rain shower will be much appreciated.


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## Bruce

We've been out since 2:30 Monday morning and the estimate is the 4th. Sure would be nice to have that battery backup now!!

Typing from my in-laws 30 miles south where we are all having showers. I'm heading back, animals to care for you know. DD1 is staying to do homework (though it hasn't been posted yet and class is tomorrow at 1:15). DW and DD2 are staying, DD2 has an ear operation tomorrow, must be at the hospital at 8:30 and has to shower with antiseptic soap both tonight AND tomorrow morning. BUT DW has an eye doctor appointment at 3:45 so if DD2's surgery takes the full 2 hours (starts presumably at 10:30) AND she comes out of the anesthetic hard like she has in the past, I will need to go down to the hospital (25 miles) to pick her up. Fun! 

I have at least found one bit of "lemonade" from this outage. The pool is an excellent source of water for flushing the toilet. I have no use for it otherwise 

If you don't hear from me before the 4th, just figure I have no power, therefore no internet.


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## Hens and Roos

Hope all goes well for DD2 and the rest of you!


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## CntryBoy777

Thanks for the update and really sorry about the power....glad ya hadn't emptied the pool....sure makes it much more convient instead of looking for a tree....hope their estimate is a few days off and ya get it back sooner....
Hope all goes well for DW and DD2....maybe things will go well enough ya can stay put.....


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## frustratedearthmother

UGH!  Like CB777 said...hope it comes back sooner!


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## Mike CHS

We lost power when I was stationed in Memphis back in the mid 80's due to a massive winter ice storm in January and lost power for over a month but the damage went way on down in Mississippi.  I don't envy you that have a 'real' winter every year.


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## Mike CHS

We lost power when I was stationed in Memphis back in the mid 80's due to a massive winter ice storm in January and lost power for over a month but the damage went way on down in Mississippi.  I don't envy you that have a 'real' winter every year.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Thanks for the update and really sorry about the power....glad ya hadn't emptied the pool....sure makes it much more convient instead of looking for a tree....hope their estimate is a few days off and ya get it back sooner....
> Hope all goes well for DW and DD2....maybe things will go well enough ya can stay put.....


Could be worse you know, we could be in Puerto Rico!! Those poor people have been in a world of hurt for a month and there is no quick repair that can happen.

The pool is above ground, one needs to empty it below where the water from the filter goes back in the pool but not much more. The water is needed to keep the sides of the pool from caving in. Of course the last time we lost power, the pool was frozen. Tried collecting snow and melting it in front of the woodstove but you don't get much water from a 5 gallon bucket of snow!

(I will admit to having watered the grass beside the deck a couple of times last night)


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## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> (I will admit to having watered the grass beside the deck a couple of times last night)



I didn't know the font could be made that small.


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## Pastor Dave

Mike CHS said:


> We lost power when I was stationed in Memphis back in the mid 80's due to a massive winter ice storm in January and lost power for over a month but the damage went way on down in Mississippi.  I don't envy you that have a 'real' winter every year.



I seem to remember that storm. We moved back up to IN from TN one winter in mid 80's. We had a mini blizzard up in IN, but Dad was making a second haul of belongings, and said the storm had extended so far South it had become a huge ice storm.


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## CntryBoy777

That one was bad, but the one in '94 shutdown from Batesville to Dyersburg, Tn....several hundred miles....it is the one referenced whenever a storm arises around here.


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## Pastor Dave

Our bad blizzard we make reference to in IN was the "Blizzard of '78"


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## goatgurl

I remember that ice storm well, had no electric for 11 days but had propane heat and cook stove so all was well.  the day we got power back I ran out of propane but had electric heaters and coleman stove to cook on so all was well.  it was another 10 days before the propane truck could make it up my driveway.  kind of makes you realize what you can get thru if you have to.  you stay warm and dry Bruce.


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## Baymule

Hang in there Bruce!


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## Latestarter

Mike CHS said:


> I didn't know the font could be made that small.



That aint the only thing gets small when watering the grass in the cold... Justsayin


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## Sara Ranch

To all that have it worse than I do - hang in there!  Stay warm!  

I don't have heat, but there is a spare room here.  It's 57 in the house - about as warm as it will get.  But there's PLENTY to do outside.  It's 40 outside - but you won't notice if you are  moving around and working...

Hoping to have working heat in a few weeks.  I ran the propane tank system for the radiant floor heating system for hours the other day.  It raised the temp only 2 degrees.    The plumber is still working to get things right.  And he accidentally cut the line for the thermostat for the propane room heater.  So no heat in THAT room!  I have faith he will get it working.  

But again, once outside working, coming inside feels great!  And all that working outside generates body heat!


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## Baymule

Could you hook up  a propane space heater to get some heat in the house?


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## Bruce

That doesn't sound good Sara! Why didn't he fix the thermostat line he cut?

The worst prior storm was an ice storm pushing 20 years ago I think. I was cooking on a Coleman white gas stove out on the porch. But we were lucky, the power randomly went on for a couple of hours so the refrigerator kept things OK.

When the snow tires came off in the spring I noticed the inside sidewall on one looked bad. Planned to take it to Bill (my car repair guy 1 mile away) whenever. That turned out to be today since it is now November and the snow will happen eventually. Very good timing, we were talking about the power outage, his never went. He is about 1/4 mile up the main road from where our road comes off. He loaned me a generator. Said he has 2 and hasn't ever used them other than occasionally to make sure they were still running. What a guy! I went and got gas and set it up on the deck with 2 extension cords, one for the freezer, one for the refrigerator. I'd put 2 bags of ice in the refrigerator on Monday evening. 2 more yesterday plus 2 each in the freezer section and the 5 cu ft chest freezer. When I opened it after plugging it in the thermometer said 33° at the top 28 pounds of quality ground beef, which are way at the bottom, from my 2 meat vendors at the farmers market didn't go bad!! 

Contact through the day with DW, she called at 2 needing me to come swap. So down I went, timing was such that I was able to go back to the garage, get the car and meet them up top at the road level. DD2 wanted to go back to the grandparents since we had no power. DW came over after her appointment. I checked the power status at my in-laws, it said we were back up. Of course I had an email at 4:30 yesterday saying the same thing  and it wasn't true. I finally got back home at 7 PM and indeed we DO have power  Checked email messages a short time ago. Had 5 from the power company. First one telling that they were updating the "UP NO LATER THAN" times. Second one said we would be up by 11 PM 11/3. Next one said earlier in the day, next one said 10 PM tonight, next one (at 4:45) said it was up.


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## Mike CHS

_I have BTDT more times than I care to think about but you appear to be taking it for what it is.  _


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## CntryBoy777

I know it sure feels Great to hear the hums and light when the switch is flipped....and Running water....


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## Bruce

Especially the running water  
and internet so I can "talk" with my friends.


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> _I have BTDT more times than I care to think about but you appear to be taking it for what it is.  _


I'm channeling my inner @CntryBoy777


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## Sara Ranch

@Bruce - Thank goodness for good neighbor and the COLD to save your meat!  Did they save your bacon too?


My plumber has tentatively scheduled to come out next week to fix the propane heater thermostat wire that he may have accidentally cut for the sunroom, as well as the propane heater for the main part of the house, as well as reconnect the wood broiler.  Er, does that make sense?


I have two options for heating the main part of the house - wood burning and propane.  Wood burning was disconnected while he was working on the propane.  The propane didn’t appear (or feel) like it worked when the temps dropped.  I have a sunroom that has a separate propane heater, separate thermostat.  The plumber may have accidentally cut that wire to the thermostat.  I know that heater no longer works.  I don’t think we were speaking the same language….he kept asking me how many thermostats and I kept replying - two - one for the main house and one for the sunroom, but the sunroom has a separate thermostat.  Oh well.  He plans to come out next week.  I am counting on a great visit that restores heating options for my house!  And heat too.


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## CntryBoy777

Isn't it amazing when dealing with modern day "Skilled" workers?....


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## Sara Ranch

@CntryBoy777 - it is what it is.  

I am blessed the pipes didn't freeze and that I have enough clothes to dress in layers.  

I am blessed that he is coming back to try to fix the problems.  Yeah, it will probably cost me, but there is a cap on the entire project that he agreed NOT to exceed.  How many plumbers would agree not to exceed an amount on a project?  Not many!  This falls under that project.  

He built in extra money for "what if's" and "just in case".  I said that was fine because I could not have a project without a price cap.  Our agreement was if it cost less to complete, that is what he would charge me.  If it cost more, then he wouldn't go past the cap.  

Sadly (for me,) looks like all of that extra money will be going to his pocket instead of hanging around with me for another week.  Gosh darn it!


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I checked the power status at my in-laws, it said we were back up. Of course I had an email at 4:30 yesterday saying the same thing  and it wasn't true. I finally got back home at 7 PM and indeed we DO have power  Checked email messages a short time ago. Had 5 from the power company. First one telling that they were updating the "UP NO LATER THAN" times. Second one said we would be up by 11 PM 11/3. Next one said earlier in the day, next one said 10 PM tonight, next one (at 4:45) said it was up.


The power was out here all day about 5 years ago. A hot August day. They are usually pretty prompt about fixing it or calling with an "estimated time of restoration of power" now as someone on this leg always calls it in, but we didn't have that notification option activated then. The day drug on, it was already dark and I assumed they were working on it, then I noticed thru the woods, that 1/4 mile away, my nearest neighbor's lights were on. I took a drive and everyone else's lights were on too, and that's when I noticed a fallen pine sapling back down on the right of way on my own property. I called and they came right out, cut the sapling off the powerline and had me up and powered in an hour. I felt like a dummy, as I was the only one without power, being the last residence and on the very end of that leg. I learned from that and now make the call myself as soon as the power goes out, no matter what.


----------



## Bruce

Sara Ranch said:


> @Bruce - Thank goodness for good neighbor and the COLD to save your meat!  Did they save your bacon too?
> 
> My plumber has tentatively scheduled to come out next week to fix the propane heater thermostat wire that he may have accidentally cut for the sunroom, as well as the propane heater for the main part of the house, as well as reconnect the wood boiler.  Er, does that make sense?
> 
> I have two options for heating the main part of the house - wood burning and propane.  Wood burning was disconnected while he was working on the propane.  The propane didn’t appear (or feel) like it worked when the temps dropped.  I have a sunroom that has a separate propane heater, separate thermostat.  The plumber may have accidentally cut that wire to the thermostat.  I know that heater no longer works.  I don’t think we were speaking the same language….he kept asking me how many thermostats and I kept replying - two - one for the main house and one for the sunroom, but the sunroom has a separate thermostat.  Oh well.  He plans to come out next week.  I am counting on a great visit that restores heating options for my house!  And heat too.



Save my bacon  Yes, both figuratively and literally 

Um, your plumber should come out and fix the wire YESTERDAY and it should not cost you anything. This of course ASSUMES he did indeed cut the thermostat wire (why would he cut the thermostat wire??). 

Do you know where this wire would have been cut?? If so, do a temporary fix yourself. There is nothing complicated about thermostat wires. Usually 3 wires, only 2 are used if you don't have both AC and heat though all will be in the outer insulation. Find where he cut it, strip a bit of insulation off each wire (1/2" is more than plenty) and twist the like colored wires together. These are VERY THIN wires, careful you don't cut the wire when stripping the insulation off. It is low voltage, you can't hurt yourself. But you can switch the thermostat off or turn the temp all the way down first if it is a mechanical one.  

How and why was the wood boiler disconnected? I can imagine if there was a possibility of a propane leak while he worked on that he wouldn't want any flames nearby. But he shouldn't have left you without heat this time of year even if he had to work OT (on his dime) to make sure you had heat. In fact, why NEXT week? Why isn't he there TODAY?


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## Sara Ranch

My understanding....

When I moved here, there was just a wood furnace (separate building) that supplied the hot water.   The floors have radiant floor heat.  Since the wood furnace heated up all the water, it was all pumped into the house system and distributed based on demand.  There were water line valves on each line to turn it on or off for the radiant floor heating.  The hall thermostat controlled the temp for the radiant floor heat.  (How that little box with a lever does that is beyond my comprehension!!)

My plumber, at my request, also did maintenance and repair work on the wood furnace and existing pipe valves.

I was not use to the big picture of always having a fire going in the wood stove.  And with it being in a separate building, it was pretty easy to forget about it.  Which I did.  Until I took a cold shower.  By then, too late to go start the fire and have hot water.  Morning get up time came early....

I hired the plumber to install a propane tankless water heater that could also provide/run the radiant floor heating.  It might be a part of my DNA to always have two sources for stuffs.  So for heat and hot water, I can choose to use the wood furnace or the propane tankless heater.  Two choices.  

To install the propane tankless heater, the plumber had to disconnect the existing wood furnace from the water lines.  (Not sure if that part is accurate - he had to connect the propane water heater to the pipes.)  Part of the project was to install a switch or a lever so I could choose which system I wanted to provide the hot water.  He hasn't gotten to that.  (Partly his fault and partly my fault.)

While doing the work of installing and trouble shooting the system, the plumber had asked me about thermostats.  I am not sure why.  The spool of thermostat wire was in the utility closet.  Not sure if there were two lines or what.  (I so don't get how it works.)  I had responded with there were two thermostats - one for the main house which depended on the wood furnace and the other for the sunroom which depended on the propane tank outside.  When we were testing the thermostat in the main house, it was 90+ degrees outside and I don't have a/c.  So it was pretty challenging to tell if the thermostat wire was down there for both or not.  I haven't seen a dangling wire/loose wire/cut wire.  (If the wire was cut - and I am hoping it was - it was done by accident.  He probably thought it was not needed.  Again, I don't know if that is the problem or not.  I know that the propane heater worked before and during his prior visits.  It did not work after his last visit.  It could be that the heater itself went kaput.  I dunno.)

This project has taken some time to complete because other projects (emergencies - like a well pump stopped working, a pump hydrant broke, a water pipe broke, etc) that need immediate attention.  I totally understand.  If I was that person that called & said I have no water or one of those other things, please help, I'd want my plumber to arrive asap!  

Then I had to put a hold on things while I dealt with some medical stuffs.

We reconnected and have tentatively scheduled for next week.  I know if someone else has an emergency, he will push me back.  With the temps at/below freezing, I should be moving towards the top of the priority list.  Lol - and you know what the high temp was yesterday??  81.  Yeah.  81 degrees.  Today was 65.  But last week and the months prior, the temps were dropping to freezing and below.  With temps that warm (only falling to the 40's at night) it wasn't necessary to rush  back out here. 

If the problem is not fixed on Tuesday, then I will ask that he do what is necessary to make things work so I can have heat via propane tankless water heater.  Worse case scenario, I have to do wood.  (I don't have a lot of wood stocked or saved - burned through most of it already and have been focused on animals this summer.  My thoughts were I didn't have to worry as much because I would have an alternative heat source from the wood furnace.)

On the bright side, the hot water from the tankless water heater is awesome!!    And hot!


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## Bruce

Sara Ranch said:


> (How that little box with a lever does that is beyond my comprehension!!)


You mean one of these?





If so there is a motor inside that opens a valve in the pipe when the thermostat triggers it to do so. That little lever will move from left to right when this happens. If you want to have it open when the thermostat isn't calling, you can push it to the right and up into the slot, there will be resistance. It will stay open so water will go through that "branch" anytime the pump is running. 

I understand now why he disconnected the wood boiler but only kinda-sorta. Is there a "wood or propane" valve in the plumbing? If so and he had put that in right off the bat then started building the propane side of the system, you could be using the wood boiler now while he is off on his "pressing" problems. If he is just connecting the propane furnace water lines to the wood burner water lines with no valve, he may have drained the line coming from the wood burner but is not yet ready to fill the lines back up and the wood boiler can't be used no matter how much wood you have or if the thermostat wire is intact or not. 

You'll need some sort of switch in the thermostat wires that is the "wood or propane" 'chooser', perhaps he did intentionally cut the thermostat wires but doesn't have this switch installed yet? I would think, given how simple that would be, he wouldn't cut the wire until he was ready to install the switch and that would be the last thing done after all the plumbing is finished.


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## Devonviolet

Wow Bruce!  I just had a few minutes to check your journal, and realized I hadn't looked at it since the 18th or 19th of Oct. Time sure flies when you don't know if you are coming or going!

You sure have had a time of it, with your Winter storm & power outages!  What a PITA!!!  So, you said your power was supposed to be back on by the 4th. I saw you posted around 1:00 yesterday (on the 4th).  Is your power on to stay?  I hope things get back to "normal" quickly, for you and your family!


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## Bruce

@Devonviolet The power actually came back on Wed the 1st about 5:30 PM. There were ZERO lines down on our road and the power on the main road never went out. Must have blown a transformer at the top end of the road, easy fix once they eventually assigned someone to it.

The girls finally all seem to be getting into the coop at night. I see a lot of squabbling and pecking when I'm there to herd them in so I don't have to come back later. I really don't know why, with 36' of roosts at 4' high, 17 girls can't just sit somewhere and leave the others alone. 

We went to the Bday party for DWs aunt, 100 years old today. It was held at the retirement place where she and DW's parents live. The other 3 older siblings lived out their lives there as well. 

Aunt Ruth told me that when she got her driver's license renewed, they gave her a "Junior operator" (ie under 18) license  She had to go back and get that fixed. Approximately 40 family members ranging from 100 years to less than one for the "family only" lunch part. I don't know how many more of the residents for the second part, probably 60 or 70. Ruth, for good reasons, is well thought of!

When we left the house at 10 AM, Oreo and Trill had exited the "stay behind the gate" space. Seems to always be those two or Mint and Cassie, never a "mix 'n match" combination. In any case, all 17 girls in the coop when we got home at 0 dark 30. Or in this case 6 PM. I hate the daylight "saving" time changes. We aren't "saving" any daylight, the sun comes up when it comes up and goes down when it goes down. Today it started to get JUST a bit light about 6 AM and was pretty gone by 5 PM when we left my in-laws. Started checking the forums about 7 and it already feels like I should be going to bed!


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like a really good time with the family, and that's quite a few yrs to be Celebrated....
Glad there was a great turnout for her.
2 words for your chickens....Pecking Order. It may seem silly to us, but it is their way of life and how their "World" functions. 
We tend to the animals according to the sun, so even tho the clock pings back or forward, we stay on the same schedule according to the Sun. Our bodies maintain the same cycle, so we will be getting in bed early according to time, but it will be the same time before sunrise....


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## Latestarter

Ahhhhh we don't need no stinkin' clock! The animals get fed after I wake up and get presentable (mostly). They get taken care of again just before it gets too dark to see what's goin' on. And sometimes, they get taken care of just cause they need it... like this afternoon when my silly boy goat decided to lift the hoop house tarps with his nose and stick his horny head through the cattle panel...  and get stuck   I guess the view must be better looking out from inside. Maybe he's tryin' to tell me they need a window? Luckily, he didn't freak out or go crazy but just nonchalantly stood there waiting for me to notice and extricate him... As I approached he looks up at me like "who? me? I'm just standing here looking around...no big deal" So I moved his head the way needed to get those scurs back through the fence and I doubt he'll attempt that again (maybe? I hope?) When he grows in size more, his head should get too big to fit through.

Clock be danged... days are getting noticeably shorter, noticeably sooner. Lot less daylight available to work with. Previous few nights I haven't been able to sleep. Last night I was just so dog tired that when I finally laid down I tossed for about 5 minutes and then went out. Overslept this morning and didn't get up till almost 10 (pre clock change, so really 9am ) That was when my eyes opened, so that's when I got up. Still run down.


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## CntryBoy777

Glad he didn't give too much trouble getting him backthru. It is amazing sometimes the situations they can get into. We feel the same way about the clock, we just operate year round by the sun, dang what the click says....all those extra hrs of daylight tho would come in very handy with cooler weather to get stuff done...when there isn't any grass to cut every week. Now that the temps have dropped some the dad-gum rain won't stop here...have more coming in tonite. Oh well, it'll just make easier work digging some post holes....been waiting for it. How's your fencing going there?


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## Latestarter

It's basically been stagnant for a bit. I'm at the point now where I have to rip out old fencing (that's the yard boundary), T-posts, and corner/support logs that are rotted out. Some are broken off at ground level so may just leave what's there and install new right alongside it. Hopefully I won't find yards of concrete around the bottoms causing me to have to dig huge holes to get around it. I've seen all the rain you've been getting but it keeps missing me. I had the one morning of storm that dropped just about an inch and nothing since. Looks like we're supposed to have the possibility of rain here starting soon.

Just looked at the radar and there's a front moving SE and the tail of it's developing and moving toward you. Looks like you're due for more rain before morning Fred. It's just over the border to your NW, extending up and through Memphis. If you follow the front line SW, it extends just about over the top of me along I-30 but there's no rain with it or on me right now. I expect Mike will be seeing it some time in the morning.

Just took a peak @ the forecast...





Just got out of the spa and couldn't dry off cause the humidity is so high out there right now. Like looking through fog... and it's not steam from the spa.

Have a couple of doc appts over at the VA on Tuesday. Can't even remember what they're for. Guess I ought to call tomorrow as I believe they have me scheduled for a dye and CRT scan and this might be that appointment. I recall them telling me I had to do something the morning of that and can't recall what that was either. Gettin' old(er). Better than the alternative, or that's what I've heard... Course nobody (in a couple of millennium) has ever come back to verify that... justsayin'

So with the much cooler weather coming in later this week, preceded by rain, I need to really push myself to get the fencing done and gates installed. Mike is making me look like the lazy old bum I've become. 

ETA: Sorry for spewing font all over your journal Bruce... thought I was on mine.


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## Bruce

Spew away, it makes it easier for me to find my journal when I want to post something 

Been really poor solar of late. First there was ZIP for 3 days while the power was out (10/30-11-1). It has been grey and rainy since then. Generated 15 kWh on the 4th and only 24.6 kWh for the month to date. We use 15-22 kWhs most days yet somehow used 12 kWhs last Wed when the power was out until 5:30 PM, we didn't get home until 7 to unplug the refrigerator and freezer from the borrowed generator and back into the wall outlets. 12 kWhs in 5 hours?? The ONE daily usage bar on the power company's website that won't show the usage by hour is THAT day. We will be eating into the credits this month if this keeps up, we managed to squeak a $1.80 credit last November.


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## CntryBoy777

That does seem a bit strange for just 5 hrs time....maybe they need to check the meter?


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Have a couple of doc appts over at the VA on Tuesday. Can't even remember what they're for. Guess I ought to call tomorrow as I believe they have me scheduled for a dye and CRT scan and this might be that appointment. I recall them telling me I had to do something the morning of that and can't recall what that was either. Gettin' old(er). Better than the alternative, or that's what I've heard... Course nobody (in a couple of millennium) has ever come back to verify that... justsayin'


Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence...
No one has returned to dispute it either......

Hopefully you aren't scheduled for a chemically induced nuke stress test. The one i did a few weeks ago was pretty un-nerving. Thought I was drowning. Passed it with flying colors tho, but next time intend to try to opt back in for the treadmill type.

Had a different test done not too long ago where the girl said "You're going to feel it when I inject this, in different places but don't be alarmed."

She was right..I felt it in a very private place the most and wasn't sure I hadn't wet my pants.......or worse down there..but I hadn't.


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## Bruce

Well THAT doesn't sound like fun @greybeard, sure hope @Latestarter isn't having the same thing.


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## CntryBoy777

I've had a few similar to those...one was to flush clots with the first attack....it was a crazy situation, but I survived it...


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## Bruce

And glad we are too!


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## frustratedearthmother

Ditto!


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## Latestarter

The CT scan is the 28th. Tomorrow is more or less a regularly scheduled appt. The CT test is not the stress test. It will involve a radioactive dye injection and I remember it well from the last time. You described the sensation quite accurately I might add. I was rather amazed at how fast I felt it move through my body. When I mentioned it to the nurse, I was informed that's the reason a cut artery leads to bleed out so quick. I have hypoaldosteronism, so bad adrenals (both), that are the cause of the hypertension. The over weight and poor diet doesn't help, but that condition is aided and abetted by the adrenals as well as thyroid issues.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure hope it turns out well, when ya do have it done....hope the checkup goes well too....


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## Mike CHS

CntryBoy777 said:


> Sure hope it turns out well, when ya do have it done....hope the checkup goes well too....



Same here.  I had to spend some time on Google looking up things I have never heard of.


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## Devonviolet

About a year ago. I was having high blood pressure, chest pressure, aching down my arms, light headedness and weakness in all four extremities.

I went to a Cardiologist, who wanted to do a nuclear stress test and CT scan (with contrast dye) in spite the fact that I had an anaphylactic reaction to CT dye in the past.     I also told her I have MCS (multiple chemical sensitivity). She didn't care. She was determined to do the tests.   

So, I got online and found Dr. Peter Langsjoen (in Tyler), who uses Ubiquinol (the most effective form of CoQ10) to treat cardiac issues. 

Instead of doing the nuclear stress test & CT scan. He did an EchoCardiogram, and determined that my heart muscle was stiffening in the resting phase (meaning that muscle wasn't getting enough blood supply.

Dr. Langsjoen told me to start taking 200mg of Ubiquinol, twice daily.  After 5 month on that, my blood pressure was 120/7, all the symptoms were gone and a repeat EchoCardiogram was normal!!!   I'm now taking 100mg twice daily. My blood pressure is normal & I continue to be symptom free.

I had a nuclear stress test in 2005, prior to having a knee replacement.  I thought I was dying!  It was a "normal" result.    Ill never do that again!!!


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## Mike CHS

@Devonviolet - I hope I get similar results as I have been taking CoQ10 since the last time this discussion came up.


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## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> Dr. Langsjoen told me to start taking 200mg of Ubiquinol, twice daily. After 5 month on that, my blood pressure was 120/7, all the symptoms were gone and a repeat EchoCardiogram was normal!!!


That's an extremely low diastolic number. 

I had an echo done on Oct 25, a week after the stress test. It's good to check valve operation, whether blood is flowing while at rest and muscle action, but does very little in regards to amt of blood pumped and how well the arteries that feed the muscle are working. 
I didn't like the chem stress test at all , but stress tests have saved mine and many millions of other lives because they give the cardiologists the full picture of what is going on while the heart is having to work the hardest, which is when most fatal heart attacks happen at work or at home, during any kind of exercise. (myocardial infarction can happen any time, but usually happens during times of duress/physical activity) 
Even most diseased hearts work quite well when the patient is just lying there quietly which of course, is the norm for when an echo is done. 
(I didn't like after the echo, having to get all that slimy mess off my hairy chest tho..TMI?)


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## AnimalIAm

That's A Nice Sounding Barn! something that We do (My Brother has extreme migraines) is essential oils. The craziest thing is It Took it away in seconds! if you are instressted just tell me and I will give you a link to amazon for the product I hope this was helpful!


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## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> That's an extremely low diastolic number.



OOPS!!!  That was supposed to be 120/*74*!  Not* 7*!


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> (I didn't like after the echo, having to get all that slimy mess off my hairy chest tho..TMI?)


Well the other "option", not that I was given a choice, is to have your hairy chest shaved. Those regrowing hairs are mighty uncomfortable for a LONG time!

Yes @Devonviolet , I am glad to know that your diastolic wasn't actually 7  I think that would mean you were about dead. But 120/74 is really good, especially without high blood pressure medicine.



Latestarter said:


> and poor diet doesn't help


If you like we can call all the places you go to eat food that is bad for you and tell them you aren't allowed to come in 

Do you think the sun gods are trying to tell me something?


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## CntryBoy777

That sure is an Extra long bar there in the middle...


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## Bruce

Yeah, the Sun god's middle finger! 
And it is only 15 kWhs. We use more than that most every day, often 50% more.


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## mysunwolf

The sun god's finger, love it!


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## Sara Ranch

@Bruce - nope, don't recognize that box thingy thing.  

The guy came out.  He said the pilot light was out on the heater.  (Yes, I can contribute this directly to him as he turned off the gas to the house so the light went out.  No one realized that the pilot light didn't automatically start up again.  We will be discussing that when they try to bill me extra for it.)

A rooster is calling me.  The ducks too.  Guess they want lunch.


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## Bruce

You had to go without heat for a week because he didn't test that the furnace came on? 

It is 36F, blowing pretty well. The alpacas are out in the field sleeping. Supposed to get to 22F with a wind chill of 8°. I wonder if they'll stay out all night or go in the barn when it starts gusting to 30+ MPH the rest of the night and almost until midnight tomorrow.


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## CntryBoy777

Well they do have plenty of protection, but that wind would be difficult to bare....stay Warm up there....I won't complain about the 50s here, or the lows in the 30s....


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## Latestarter

They may feel safer outside since it's dark and they feel they have room to escape if needed. Inside the barn with noises and the inability to see what's near or approaching, it probably makes them nervous. Besides that, with their knit coats, I doubt getting cold is an issue for them.


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## Sara Ranch

@Bruce - no heat since July.  There were some COLD nights & days in July when I really wished I had heat.  I had left him a voicemail message about the sunroom heater not working back in July.  (He just forgot.)

Since July, there have been some really warm days and some really cold days.

Heat works now in the sunroom.  Yeah!!!  (In the house too, but using propane only.)  Now for him to hook up the wood furnace so it doesn't cost me a fortune to heat the house.  I used 10% of the propane in the outside tank in less than 48 hours.  Then used 8% in the next 48 hours.  Thermostat set at 60 and I am still wearing layers and long johns.  House is well insulated.  And I try to maximize passive solar heat when the sun shines.  And no, the heater is not running all the time.  It just sucks up the propane, I guess.  

BUT I have electricity and heat and this is a PLUS.  High temps are hovering around 29-33 outside.  Brrr!!!

So all is well over here.


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## Bruce

Must be a small propane tank! I have a BIG one buried in the back yard.

Methinks you need a different guy for future projects if he can leave you hanging for 3 months.

Laddie was outside this morning but clearly hadn't been all night or he would be coated with ice. We had a T-storm at 12:30 and it dropped to 16°F by this morning. Teddy was inside and acting nervous when I went his direction. Silly boys are always thinking I'm going to beat them or something (I never have!) There was a ~1/4 sheet of old particle board ("gift" from the prior owner, he left many) leaning against the end wall of their alley by the door. It had fallen and was leaning against the structure I made to narrow the passage. Thus he was trapped and REALLY didn't like it. I had to go out through their door, around the corner of the barn and rattle the pellets in the container to get Laddie to come into the barn. I really had no desire to stand out there and hand feed him in those temps with 30+ MPH wind blowing in from the west across the field. They have "feeders" on the gate in the barn.


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## CntryBoy777

I don't blame ya a single bit....I do alot for my animals, but there are times that they better do for theirself and those conditions would certainly be one of those times...BRRR!!!


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## Sara Ranch

Brr!  I am not a fan of being in super cold temps.  Too many times of being cold over the years.

Did you have someone take pictures of you crawling through their door?    I am sure the photo would bring many smiles to many of us.


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## Bruce

Sara Ranch said:


> Did you have someone take pictures of you crawling through their door?  I am sure the photo would bring many smiles to many of us.


Crawl? Have you seen an alpaca? Their heads are almost as high as mine and I'm 6'1". Their door is a full height 34" door, held open a bit less than halfway.

This might give you an idea, keep in mind Teddy is on a platform ~18" high
... or not. The site is screwed up, says the file is too big. It is only 490K. So you'll have to trust me on this for now


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## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> The site is screwed up, says the file is too big. It is only 490K. So you'll have to trust me on this for now



So that is the glitch.  I had 2 pictures about 90k that the site said was too large.


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## Sara Ranch

lol - ok, if you say so!

Btw, alpaca's are on my wish list.    I'm not ready for them yet.  There's still so more research to be done.  I welcome all of your alpaca wisdom, Oh Great Bruce.  (Seriously.)


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## Bruce

I have no alpaca wisdom!! If I did I'd know how to get the boys to figure out I'm not going to hurt them. @luvmypets has more alpacas and more experience.

I did learn that they eat very little. I had no idea how much they would eat. The lady that gave them to me originally had 7 alpacas and 3 goats. And the lady across the road has 2 alpacas and 3 horses. Thus their  quantity of hay used per animal is sort of "not definitive" since they had no need to track it. I got 38 bales (small squares) of hay last fall for them. They didn't eat even half of it before the grass started growing again in late April/May. They do eat it all summer though, I guess they like some dry to go with all the fresh green they have out in their pasture. I got 20 bales 2 months ago but they still have 8-9 left from last year.


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## CntryBoy777

Is your weather getting any better up there for ya?


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## Bruce

Well it didn't snow this morning and it is above freezing. 
Supposed to rain later today and tomorrow.


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## CntryBoy777

Well we have 30mph wind gusting into the 40-45mph range today with imminent rain and 70°. I was hoping ya wasn't having to deal with that howling wind ya was having and that terrible white stuff....


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## Pastor Dave

We are getting thunderstorms and 60's out of Illinois. Wind is howling and gusting. Rain is being driven pretty well. I told my wife that if we had cooler, normal  November temps with all this, it would be a pretty good winter storm.


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## Bruce

We are supposed to get the 30 MPH plus gusts starting tomorrow around 10 AM tomorrow through 7 PM.


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## Pastor Dave

We are getting the cold front now. It has dropped abt 20 degs. We had high of 67degs F. today, and high of 37degs for tomorrow.


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## Bruce

I took the deck off the garden tractor a few days ago and yesterday, with a clean undercarriage since I haven't yet put the snowblower part on, took the dump cart out to the north end of the NE field. I had seen some old metal out there just inside the tree line. Looks like mostly the remains of an old folding table and a few other things. I dumped it in front of the barn since I plan at SOME time to collect all the scrap metal and get a couple of $$ for it. Also took some firewood to the porch to restock.

Eggs from Cassie, Veronica and Trill yesterday. No eggs today but I'm not surprised, Cassie laid the prior 3 days and Veronica the prior 5. Trill's was her second egg, she started 3 days ago.

Checked the girls' 5 gallon water tank this evening. Basically empty which I thought was odd but then they don't have their auto waterer now and there are 17 of them. 
So I filled it up. 
And then I heard something that sounded like water dripping rapidly.
Yep, one of the nipples failed and was draining the tank. 


Why does this happen just before Thanksgiving?? Same as last time except only 1 this time, not 3.
I shut off the valves and unplugged the pump. Got the heated dog water dish out, filled it up and plugged it in. They had that last year as well as their "en suite" water nipples and it worked fine. The only problem is it gets dirty from all the scratching and dustbathing in the alley. As before waterer repair requires totally dismantling the open nest box since it is built into the bottom. They will have to live with their dog dish for the winter, though I don't think they mind. I'm going to make a separate water unit so I can replace nipples more easily but that may have to wait until spring.


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## CntryBoy777

Nothing every happens at a convenient time it seems....Congrats on still getting eggs....are ya freezing any this year?


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## Mike CHS

Our egg production hasn't dropped yet but our temps keep going up and down plus Teresa added some lighting to the coops.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Nothing every happens at a convenient time it seems....Congrats on still getting eggs....are ya freezing any this year?


No freezing this year because I got the 6 pullets. SHOULD have at least a couple dozen eggs a week. Would be NICE if the Exchequers had continued laying and if Betty would start though! Cassie, Veronica and now Trill are enough to keep us fed (as long as I don't make eggnog too often) but my "customers" like eggs too. MIL gets 6 a week so that doesn't leave much for customers at the moment.


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## farmerjan

AnimalIAm said:


> That's A Nice Sounding Barn! something that We do (My Brother has extreme migraines) is essential oils. The craziest thing is It Took it away in seconds! if you are instressted just tell me and I will give you a link to amazon for the product I hope this was helpful!


I am interested in the essential oil that might help relieve migraines.


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## Mike CHS

Jan - our daughter-in-law uses lavender - it isn't a remedy but it lessens some of the symptoms.


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## Pastor Dave

A young college gal here at my church missed so much of her senior year in high school due to migraines, they feared she wouldn't graduate. She went to many doctors and tried several treatments. She got the little part of her ears pierced that stick out above the earlobe closest to the jaw, and somehow they mostly all stopped. Not sure abt seeing a guy piercing his ears, but if it would work...


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## Baymule

Bruce I thought about you and your alpacas yesterday. We went to a Fiber Festival in town Saturday and there was Alpaca wool, so soft! There was sheep wool from many different breeds and a couple from Kansas with a fiber mill. Several people were spinning, one lady was hooking a rug and one man had a picker going and a drum carder. All of them were passionate about their animals and the wools they produce. It was extremely interesting.


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## Bruce

Pastor Dave said:


> A young college gal here at my church missed so much of her senior year in high school due to migraines, they feared she wouldn't graduate. She went to many doctors and tried several treatments. She got the little part of her ears pierced that stick out above the earlobe closest to the jaw, and somehow they mostly all stopped. Not sure abt seeing a guy piercing his ears, but if it would work...


My older daughter (now 24+) missed so much school in 11th grade from migraines that she had to do 12th at home. She got a diploma but the last year was pass/fail rather than letter grades. Pretty hard for a kid who is way too hard on herself anyway thinking that 100% is ALMOST good enough. She has a lot of issues that trigger migraines, nothing has helped much in the last 10 years since her 24x7 migraine started. She is on Candesartan now which has helped stave off the "headache on top" episodics. She's taking a class at the local community college now to see if she can: 

be in a room with other people. Before classes started she asked, and the teacher relayed her request, that people not wear fragrances. They trigger episodics as do nasty things like Purell. Seems everyone is complying
can handle doing work that is due on someone else's schedule.
She's doing OK and is planning 2 classes for the next semester. She hopes she can actually go to college. Kind of hard when your younger "A's and B's are good enough" sister graduated last May.


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## Pastor Dave

I can't even imagine the debilitation it would cause. Poor girl. Praying she can follow her dreams!


----------



## Mike CHS

Same here - I'm a wimp with just a minor headache.  Everything else I can handle but not that.


----------



## Baymule

Thank God that my chemical issues don't trigger migraines, but I can't stand perfumes or chemical smells. I pray that she is able to conquer her problems and live a better life.


----------



## Bruce

I found an egg from Veronica in the community box this morning. There was another dark egg in there late  this afternoon. I think that means Betty is FINALLY laying. Guess I'll have just the 4 to carry through the winter since the Exchequer Leghorns started, then quit.


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## CntryBoy777

Well if memory serves me correctly ya only need 4 or 5 for Sunday breakfast, right?


----------



## AnimalIAm

farmerjan said:


> I am interested in the essential oil that might help relieve migraines.


ok here you go! https://www.amazon.com/Rocky-Mounta...9&sr=8-8&keywords=essential+oils+for+migraine


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## Bruce

Guess it's been a (long) while. Not much excitement here.

I put up a second hay feeder in the alpacas' area last week so they wouldn't have to tussle for position. Already had it, came with the barn. 

Forgot to take water down with me this morning. NO WORRIES! I had left a couple of "cat litter jerry cans" in the barn. Moved the small piece of plywood (*) from in front of the cardboard flap in front of the foam plug in the "winter water" insulation box. Pulled out the hose, filled the container. That foam box is pretty important. I was concerned the hose might be pretty stiff from the cold but the heat leakage through the plastic barrel trapped by the 2" foam box keeps it quite pliable.

Thanks for the great idea @CntryBoy777 ! 

* which keeps the chickens from getting to the foam


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## CntryBoy777

Glad things are working out well so far with the system that you built and ya should get that credit and pat-on-the-back. How is the deck/porch working out?....getting slick?


----------



## Bruce

Wouldn't know! No reason to go out back in the winter. I guess I could go out to the barn that way (*) instead of through the enclosed porch on the front of the house. But DW would kill me for tromping snow through the bathroom on my way back in.

* if I had already built stairs on the north end


----------



## Bruce

Not much excitement here. Worst of the really cold weather has gone and it is supposed to be above freezing, and raining , tomorrow. That should make for some interesting lack of traction.

2 years ago we had a new Eastern Cottontail added to the property about every 3 weeks. Plenty of bunnies around. Last year, not ONE bunny anywhere. I started seeing rabbit tracks in the snow a few weeks ago so I decided to see if I could make sure this one is healthy enough to be around in warmer times (assuming no predator gets it). I made a sort of an A frame with 2 pieces of plywood outside between the barns where the rabbit tracks came through the cattle panel and put a metal bowl/dish with some rabbit food from the grocery store in it. Next day BIG pile of bunny poop and food gone so I've been continuing that. Today I got 2 bag of layer and went looking for rabbit food. Lots of choices. The girl wanted to know if I needed bulk. Nope, only have the 1 wild rabbit as far as I know. In the end, I got two 25# bags of rabbit food that was expired. All of $2/bag. Surely I don't need that much but who can pass up a deal? The 4# bags on the shelf were something like $8-$9 each. I doubt the rabbit will care about the expiration date, perhaps it will tell its friends about the new restaurant. 

I have determined something I would not have expected. I put a pile of brussel sprout leaves (from prep before cooking) in the bowl and some iceberg lettuce leaves that were a bit wilty. The sprout leaves disappeared, the lettuce did not. Yesterday I put out some more sprout leaves. They were gone this morning and the lettuce had been dragged out of the bowl and left on the side of the rabbit trail. I guess they know what has food value and what doesn't!


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## CntryBoy777

Well, if the A frame is inside the fence, then ya could provide a safehaven for them, but if ya are going to attempt a garden of sorts ya may be just growing a banquet table. It would be interesting to dicker with to see what transpires....
Ya may want to take advantage of the temps and replace any water used out of your barrel. Are ya still getting some eggs?
Ours dropped here with the days of below freezing temps...but still getting 3 khaki eggs a day....I saw some wing feathers on the ground today, so 1 has probably quit to finish her molt. Ya can't beat the price on the rabbit feed and sure they won't say anything.....


----------



## Bruce

The "rabbit feeding station" is between the 2 barns, between the two "balloons". The garden is at the bottom, with the old pool cover (in this picture). Not that the rabbits don't go down there too but there is a fence around it. There were rabbit prints ON the pool (partially visible on the right) last week. 

 

I haven't used much water from the barrel yet, probably 4 gallons. Not really worth the trouble to open up all the insulation and cardboard to replace that. Of course that does suggest an engineering change: the ability to refill without a lot of dismantling. 

Trill (Barnevelder hatched in April) has been laying 3-4 a week.  She's the only one of the 6 that didn't quit  Yue (5.5 Y/O Ancona started up this past week. 1 under the roost cracked and frozen, 1 in the nest, 1 under the roost cracked and frozen and with a thin shell hole on the pointy end, 1 in the nest, shell looks OK. Not sure what is going on with her shell gland, she laid only really thin shelled eggs last year. Figured that would be what I got for the rest of her life. Now I'm not sure. 

What are you doing with all those eggs since you said you can't even give them away?? I bet Gabbie is enjoying some of them.


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## Mike CHS

We are still getting about a dozen a day out of 20 layers but one silly hen has decided she wanted to sit and hatch chicks in the dead of winter.  I don't see it being successful but Teresa is letting her try since she got downright vicious when she tried to get her off the nest and she is getting enough eggs for her sales.


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## Bruce

No reason the hen shouldn't be successful. I know it has been colder down there than normal but a hen is pretty warm underneath.


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## Mike CHS

We have supplemental heat in the coops but she was determined we weren't going to move her and she is one of the tamer ones.  We are such hard masters.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We continue to save most of the eggs....we eat some, there are a couple of people that will call from time to time, and haven't really started giving many to Gabbie....but, will....she just has a defiance streak in her and tries to make demands of things over eating her regular food....so, we are going slow with her treats and specials to make sure she eats her food first. She knows the word treat, so we have to spell it around her....when Joyce browns hamburger, she pours the pan residue over her normal food.....she doesn't react to too many smells and sounds right now, because she doesn't know what it is about....but, she absolutely knows when ya open a can of tuna and will climb your leg to get at some of it....we'll give her the water drained off it along with some chunks. She is eating about 5 cups of puppy food a day in 3-4 feedings.
On the water issue....I'm thinking about getting a 20' stick of the heavy, black plastic piping used for culverts that is about 2' in diameter and see about insulating the inside of it and get a lid for 1 end of it and insulate it too....then, with it about 30-36" tall and use it to place over the up pipes and spigots and should have enought room to store some hose inside also. Pick them up and cover the spigots in each house and in the backyard durning winter and accessing the hose and spigots thru the removeable lid, then empty the hoses, store, replace lid....and store during the Spring. That way wasps and spiders won't be inclined to inhabit them during the warm months. The black will warm in the sun and the insulating material will hold warmth in and cold out. I was thinking of using spray adhesive with those foam mats that are used to float in pools that are made like those noodle things kids use as floats theses days.....it kinda looks like pipe insulation and would certainly not be affected by wet weather....I know your situation is a bit different, but that is what I'm thinking on doing here.....


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## Wehner Homestead

I just read all of your journal Bruce! It's very interesting putting the relationships between members and the backgrounds of each together. I find alpacas interesting and I've enjoyed the information that you've shared but I doubt I'll ever own one. I enjoy your chicken stories. I can't believe your cat food is that expensive! 

I have to say that I wish it would've worked out with Merlin. I loved my Pyrs and will have another at some point. I wonder if you might have better success after your wife retires since she won't have to be up super early every morning...

As someone that suffers from occasional migraines...mine can be prevented and/or relieved depending on how dedicated I am by my chiropractor. My neck actually curves the wrong way, making it easier for any type of strain or stress to set my body off.


----------



## Bruce

I also wish I could have kept Merlin. DW had the "I'll never get back to sleep" mindset rather than "Merlin is doing his job, I can ignore it" mindset. I doubt she would be happy having a dog bark at night whether she had to get up in the morning or not. 

I can generally avoid migraines if I avoid my migraine trigger foods. I sort of feel like I'm walking on that grass strip between the road with fast traffic and the sidewalk. I can occasionally eat a bit of something and stay on that strip but I never know how close I am to the wrong edge so I don't take chances. 

@CntryBoy777 Rascal (lunch cat) and Christofur (lunch cat Jr) come running when I get a plate out or open the refrigerator  anywhere near lunch time. Though Christofur seems to not care for ham anymore, Rascal has gotten double share the last 2 times. We give the tuna water to the cats though I'm not generous with the actual tuna  

It was low high 40°s yesterday and 50°s today, Melted all the snow except where I had blown it. This is our near future, nothing like freezing rain and sleet overnight  

 

I've been collecting the scrap metal from various locations in preparation for a SINGLE trip to the metal recyclers. Given the snow had all melted off it I figured I better get it moved before the snow covers it back up again tomorrow. I dug into the pile that has been in the front yard for the last 4 years (I know, I KNOW!). That pile was originally covered with a tarp by the contractors and I THOUGHT it was lumber they had delivered for the rebuilding. Found out when they were about done that was not the case, at least not by then because I KNOW they had some new lumber in there at times. I was expecting to find some small roofing pieces to scrap and some full pieces that I could keep for some unknown future project. There was also some scrap wood in there and a couple of fairly decent length pieces of PT 4x4 and one 6x6 probably 5' long. Good deck support that! 

Well whoever put that metal roof on did it wrong. Holes all through the ridges. I would have thought that holes on the deck would be BAD and holes above it in the ridges would be GOOD since water wouldn't be running past the fasteners but I watched a video done by a roofing company a year or so back and the guy said the most common mistake people make is to put the rubber grommeted screws in the ridges. So it is either all scrap or I decide that whatever I make will be done wrong or will have holes where there should be none and maybe they can be patched with roofing tar or something. 

The plywood I put up before to make the rabbit "feeding station" was resting on some old chicken wire loaded with snow and before it warmed up the snow in the wire was the peak of the Q&D structure. Today all the rabbit food was a wet mess since the snow melted. The bowl was, of course, directly under the peak of the structure. I took one piece of roofing that was about 3' long to make a new rabbit "feeding station" tunnel. I then leaned the bigger piece of plywood over it and against the CP fence to keep the 9" of snow we expect tomorrow from pushing the tunnel down. 

No sign of the rabbit today but since the snow melted it probably had plenty to chose from. The alpacas were out all day, rain or not and they were pretty wet. The chickens must have thought spring had sprung with the snow gone and the temp up, they were wandering all around their normal haunts up by the house. Yuki must have been out in the rain then got into the dirt in the barn alley. She is the most brown White Rock there ever was! Won't the poor girls be surprised and  when it is 15°F tomorrow morning and -8°F Sunday morning ... and their outside world is again covered in white stuff they wish to avoid.


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## Mike CHS

I spent too many years in Pensacola to like winter but I'll take ours here in Tennessee over yours.   

We are still going to be at or below freezing for the next several days.  I'm going through hay at almost double what I estimated for.


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## Bruce

I hope you get an early spring Mike! Hay might be hard to come by with everyone having the same cold and going through their supply faster than expected.


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I spent too many years in Pensacola to like winter but I'll take ours here in Tennessee over yours.
> 
> We are still going to be at or below freezing for the next several days.  I'm going through hay at almost double what I estimated for.


But MIke, one just can't appreciate how nice a +10°F day is until the -20°F days have come!


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## CntryBoy777

They mentioned today on the news here that from 4pm yesterday to today....counting today's windchill factor...that there had been a 54° temp change. We had 2.5" of rain in the gauge with another 1/2" of sleet and snow....the gauge cracked with the freezing temps, so will have to get another tube next time to town....when the roads clear....


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## Latestarter

Missed basically all of it here. It passed just south of me and built north and east after passing. Didn't even really register in the rain gauge. Plenty chilly here though, and I drove through some serious T-storms coming back from Shreveport and the VA Yesterday. The wind was howling last night. Had Mel up and barking most of the night. Guess with all the noise he was nervous and hearing things. Would have been a perfect time for a coyote attack... I went out a couple times before bed to blowing snow flakes. By midnight, the sky was crystal clear and stars shining bright.


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## Baymule

It got cold here last night with blowing wind. The power went out. We got flashlights and called the power company, estimated time to lights was 10:15. That was 2 1/2 hours away. We turned off the flashlight and looked out the window, which surprisingly was fairly light outside. At least enough to see the treeline against the sky. it got late, we called again and the new time was 11:00 PM. At 10:59 the lights came on, so we turned them OFF and went to bed.  Going to be 21 degrees tonight......I do not know the joy of -10 or -20 and hope I never do!


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## Bruce

No big excitement. Eos (2015 EE) has laid 2 eggs in the last 3 days and Veronica (Welsummer) laid one yesterday. That is good, poor Trill needs the help, she shouldn't have to carry the entire load on her own. 

This afternoon in the barn I noticed that the bottom strap of Teddy's halter had come undone. I left their halters on after shearing them in the spring EXPECTING to get back and do their toe nails. Still haven't done that. But I figured it wasn't good to have a loose halter on him so I took them off both boys. Teddy was a bit easier once I had my hip up against him and his butt and other side were up against Laddie who was up against a wall at that point. After I took his halter off I stroked his back and neck. Not sure he was enjoying it but didn't fight. Then I had to catch Laddie. He wasn't as docile, sounded like he was planning to spit though he never did. Got my hip on him up against the closed stall door and got his halter off. Stroked him some as well, he was less "not unhappy" sounding but didn't fight. While that sounds positive, I'll bet they head out the door ASAP when I go back to the barn tomorrow and approach the gate to put water in their bucket and refill their hay feeders. 

I counted the chickens this afternoon when closing up. I always do that in the summer but since the birds don't like the snow and stay in the barn, I've not done it every afternoon lately. Good thing I did count, no Betty (Welsummer). I went out and looked behind the barn thinking she might be wandering around the area I have to blow to get the garden tractor turned around to go back uphill between the barns. She wasn't there but she was standing (not happily) on a 90°ell on a vertical piece of 4" sewer pipe that had been removed from the house that is right behind the big barn about 20' from the barn corner. She was about 6" above the snow. There were NO chicken footprints (or those of any other animal for that matter) leading to the pipe. This means she must have flown there for some reason only known to her tiny chicken brain. It does look like there are some "wing beat" patterns in the snow, I guess from landing or keeping her balance. I walked down the alpaca path then 8' through the 8" deep snow across to where she was. She let me pick her up and carry her back to the barn. I'm sure she would not have been happy to be locked out of the barn all night. Though ....  if she decided to get off her perch and go to the barn, she is one of the 2017 chicks and would probably try to go through the alpacas' door IF she managed to fly/trudge 50' down the alpacas' path to the north end of the barn.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Glad ya got Betty back in the barn!


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## Mike CHS

We have one rooster that decided to roost outside the other night when it got down to 7 degrees and he has some serious frostbite.


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## Bruce

Sorry about your rooster's frostbite. Hopefully he learned his lesson. Just because he lives in the south doesn't mean it is always warm! Which is something I've learned from you Southern folks and your weather this winter 

I don't think Betty actually wanted to be where I found her. Also didn't know how to get back without walking in the snow. I am really surprised she managed to get as far as she did without touching snow, I'll try to remember to take my camera out in the morning.


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## Baymule

Good thing for Betty that you counted heads!


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## CntryBoy777

That is something I do many times in a days time, is head counts.....goats and ducks are fairly easy, but them danged chickens are hard to catch all together at one time in one place throughout the day.....course they are the only ones that are true "free-range"....the ducks are inside fence all day. Sure glad ya was able to rescue her from herself and her bad decisions....


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## Bruce

Pictures of "Betty's perch". Close up (with "wing prints" I THINK) and from the corner of the barn. It is that black thing near the second window.

 

And the wild rabbit feeding station, close up and from a distance. The rabbit sometimes comes/goes down the path or through the cattle panel left of the "station" ... and poop. For a small animal they sure poop a lot, or there is more than one. The gate in the second picture ends at the lower right of the second picture above.
 

Moved more wood onto the porch today, now have about 1.5 cords there, should be enough to get to the end of February even if I don't have decent weather to bring more in.


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## Wehner Homestead

@Bruce I thought of you this morning when gathering eggs. I got ONE egg from 30 laying hens! I know two more were laid in a pen of 7 hens but one is cracking them. I’ve got to get a plan to separate them until I find the culprit to send to freezer camp! I’ve also got two molting and two that haven’t laid in months but they are from my first set and let the kids carry them so they get to eat and hang around. Still...you’d think I’d end up with more than one egg to bring in!


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## Bruce

Lazy butt chickens!! 
I got none from 17 yesterday but 2 today.


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## CntryBoy777

Hopefully with the daylight hours getting longer they will pick up some for ya both....tho, during the fridgid temps ours slowed down....except for the khakis, they are still putting them out....


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## Mike CHS

We are still getting between 7 & 11 from 19 hens so far.


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## Wehner Homestead

I’ve considered some ducks since I like to bake but don’t think I need another species to keep up with at present...


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## Bruce

I'm staying away from ducks mostly because I don't want to deal with their winter water needs. Plus they would have to be housed separately from the chickens so they don't foul the chickens' water. But I bet they would love the pond behind the barn in the non freezing months.


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## Wehner Homestead

Keeping them in water in winter is my concern too! Maybe in the future. If we had a pond, it’d be a done deal!


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## CntryBoy777

I know I go a bit overboard with the water for the ducks, but our locale is usually accepting of what we do....but, if I were in a more northern and colder locale they would be limited during the frigid months to only having it during the daylight hours. The only reason for them to have water at night is if pellets or feed is available to them....if ya take the feed away at night, then no water is necessary. This would cut the water demands greatly and would lessen the amount of ice that would have to be dealt with....but on days above freezing I would still give them a pool or tub to swim in cause they truly Love it and it is very entertaining to watch them in it.....ours have been in it at 21° after we busted the ice on top and removed the chunks....crazy little beasts they are....


----------



## Bruce

I suppose one could put in a bubbler to keep it from freezing. Not sure what temp that works to though.


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## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> Keeping them in water in winter is my concern too! Maybe in the future. If we had a pond, it’d be a done deal!


Don't know about where you are but our pond freezes pretty much solid. It is really shallow, I'm not sure how the frogs and fish manage to stay alive each winter.


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## Wehner Homestead

We are in Southern Indiana. We had polar freezes in 2014 then not enough to really even freeze the top of anything until this year. We live very close to the Ohio River and it actually got icy this year. A century ago it froze solid enough that they drove horses across it! (I thought I got a pic and I didn’t.)


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## Wehner Homestead

I found a few pics on Google from years ago. The ones at the Historical Society are even neater. (Please ignore the reference pics under. These aren’t related and I don’t know why them came up!)


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## CntryBoy777

Some frogs and fish will bury themselves in mud and hibernate until the water temp rises, being cold blooded they go into a catatonic state. Even during the single digits here the ducks were eating and dusting in the snow....like chickens in dirt. We had to tote water to them 3 times a day, but would've been only 2 times if we didn't give feed at nite, but using hay and the deep litter method of bedding kept the inside water from freezing solid overnite. They do shake and sling water and even dip their head in the water and then let it drip from their bill outside the water tub....so, if ya had to keep the area dry and the wet area down, putting their water in a tote or box with an access hole cut in it would eliminate a lot of excess water in other areas....and have a short distance between their feed and water so they don't get to mixing the 2 in both containers.


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## Wehner Homestead

@CntryBoy777 If I get ducks you’ll be my go-to for what to do and what not to do!


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## CntryBoy777

Well, I'm not an expert, but will sure help ya as much as I can.....my favorite breed is the Khaki Campbells...they are hilarious and egg laying machines....


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## Wehner Homestead

I think they are pretty and have always stood out to me!


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## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> A century ago it froze solid enough that they drove horses across it! (I thought I got a pic and I didn’t.)


Gee, you must be REALLLLLLY OLD!  


Lake Champlain used to freeze all the way across almost every year in the 1800's and early 1900's. That started to change in the 1950's when it didn't close 5 years of the decade. 3 years in the 60's, 3 in the 70's, 5 in the 80's, 7 in the '90s, 5 in the 2000's and so far this decade it closed only in '14 and '15.  To put it in perspective, between 1816 and 1949 there were only 6 years that it did not freeze over. Used to be a "highway" to northern New York state for some part of the year.

Our above ground pool freezes, no surprise. I ASSUME it freezes all the way down. Had rabbit tracks in the snow on it a couple of weeks ago. That rabbit must have been pretty desperate to find something to eat. It had to go up 6 steps, across ~5 of deck, through a closed picket gate, down two steps to get to the pool deck, then up and over the edge of the pool landing a foot or so down on the surface.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Some frogs and fish will bury themselves in mud and hibernate until the water temp rises, being cold blooded they go into a catatonic state.


Must be we have that kind of fish and frogs. Never see any big fish, only very small ones. Maybe they get big enough to lay eggs in the mud in the fall that hatch in the spring?


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## Wehner Homestead

@Bruce you are SOOO funny!


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## CntryBoy777

Bruce said:


> Must be we have that kind of fish and frogs. Never see any big fish, only very small ones. Maybe they get big enough to lay eggs in the mud in the fall that hatch in the spring?


Ya gotta remember though, fish will only grow to the size of their environment....if the water is overcrowded then they won't grow and remain small. The amount of water does dictate the amount of fish that can be supported, but is not the only factor....in a large body of water 90% of the fish are only in 10% of the water.....


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## Latestarter

See, now that's why I was saying you should start fishing in your overfilled pond! You only need to fish in the 10% of it that the 90% are using!


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## Bruce

Right @Latestarter !! Why should @CntryBoy777 waste his time working the other 90%??

I would like to dredge the muck out of the pond, at least some of it. I guess I would have to be careful not to get rid of all of it or the fish and frogs would have nowhere to winter over. It would be nice to have more water volume for dry spells. This is a picture of it summer of 2012. Sadly, all that dry area proved to be a good seedbed for grasses that shouldn't be there and cattails. Constant fight to keep it from becoming a meadow.


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## Latestarter

I'd be more concerned about going too deep and removing the clay base that must be there to hold the water in in the first place. I mean with your rocky soil, would a man made pond exist if it wasn't "lined" either with artificial material or a dense clay (or be naturally replenished)? 

I guess you could remove the "dried out" end enough for the remaining water (in pic, at end of summer) to run into it after being deepened, then follow up with deepening the deep end. I agree, if I had a pond, I'd want it deeper than what your appears to be. Imagine ice fishing in your back yard!


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## Bruce

The stuff I want to get out is, I think, decades and decades of silt and muck. Step in and lose your boot. I don't know the shape of the ledge but you can see the edge of it in the foreground. I'm guessing whoever dug this thing started with a natural wet area over the ledge.  I've pulled some of the growing stuff starting at the exposed ledge and so far have found only more ledge angling down. The "soil" there has so far been pretty shallow. Given there are ledge "peaks" to the west, I bet one could make a much bigger pond though I'm not planning to do so.

All the "soil" around this place is clay near as I can tell so I ASSUME the "walls" to the north and west are just stuff that was pulled out from around or within the pond area and heaped up.


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## Mike CHS

The lack of a pond is about the only thing I don't like about our place.  There have been two ponds dug but neither hold water.  The smaller of the two I have already leveled off and filled in and the larger one will be filled in not far in the future.


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## CntryBoy777

When ours was built back in '92-94, it was 18' at the deep point on the levee.....with all the trees around the leaves and debris that have fallen into it thru the years probably has had an effect on that depth....but, with the carp we have in there they may have kept it to a minimum, hopefully. I'll have to keep an eye out for them this year cause it's getting close to time to replace them....they are hybrids and don't reproduce and live in the 35yr range. It is stocked with largemouth bass, bream, and catfish and has been a pretty productive small pond with enough predators that the fish continue to grow to good size.


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## Pastor Dave

You may need to snorkel down there and take some measurements.


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## Baymule




----------



## Pastor Dave

I learned SCUBA in an IN "lake" at a state park that wasnt any deeper than that. It was kinda cool. We did a cool water dive later at that same pond when the air temp was 45 or 50F deg., and it was a lot different.


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## Bruce

I learned SCUBA in the pool at the Y. Open water dives to complete certification were off the So. Cal coast and Catalina Island. Of course that was 45 years ago. I tried diving here once about 35 years ago. Lots different in a lake with maybe 15' visibility.


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## Pastor Dave

I bet. I read abt currents and such. No experience. My biggest water was a quarry pit dive. The water was clean and blue-green. Visibility was great. I only went down abt 45-50 feet. I grabbed a buddy's fin that was using a propelled underwater jet ski sort of apparatus you might see in a James Bond movie. I didn't mind diving brown, murky ponds because my intention was training for rescue and recovery while I was on FD and EMS. I never got that far in my hours or training though.


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## Bruce

I was thinking more about what there is to see in the ocean (in the proper places) compared to a deep lake. Kelp, pretty colored fish, etc. Once you are under in the ocean you aren't affected by the wave action though you do need to be mindful of rip currents if they occur in the area. Best to just avoid those places!

My dive in the lake was on the General Bulter - a sail powered canal boat that went down in 35' of water 300' outside the Burlington breakwater Dec 9, 1876 when the steering failed. All 4 aboard made it to the breakwater (boat probably struck it then floated a distance while sinking) and were rescued. It wasn't discovered until 1980, though I'm sure in the late 1800's plenty of people could tell you where it went down. The fact that the wreck wasn't discovered for so long tells you how NOT clear the water is. You can't see much of the G.B until you are almost on it and then only a small amount at a time. I think it was found via sonar searches. There a plenty of Revolutionary War and later wrecks in the lake.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I was thinking more about what there is to see in the ocean


Ships...lots of old ships.
"There are far more ships at the bottom of the ocean than there are sailing on the surface of the ocean."

yo ho ho it's a pirate's life for me.....


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## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> in a large body of water 90% of the fish are only in 10% of the water....



Sometimes. On a volume to volume comparison, it certainly be true. IOW, the water any fish displaces by it's own presence is pretty small compared to the size of the whole body of water. Multiply that cubic volume of displacement by the total volumetric size and numbers of fish and it's still relatively small compared to the acre/ft of the lake.

It's much like saying 90% of the world's birds spend their time in less than 10% of the air. Of course they do..there's trillions of cubic feet of air in the atmosphere and really not all that many birds comparatively.

Same with crawling/jumping insects compared to total land mass.
All 3.5 million Americans can fit in a 3.5 mile x 3.5 mile square and all 7.3 billion of the Earth's population will fit in  a 16.8mi x 16.8mi square. That is a square smaller then NYC.
Yep, the entire human race will fit in that tiny square but they wouldn't stay there. 


However, it is also a proven fact that in any large body of water, fish spend 90% of their time in open water and only 10% of their time in the shallows where cover is (and where their small prey is) and exactly where the catchable (bigger) fish are going to be is dependent day to day on different conditions..and time of day.

The reality is, that the easy to catch fish are in 10% of the water, where 10% of the fishermen congregate to catch 90% of them.


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## CntryBoy777

Hope the weather doesn't hammer ya up there....
Are they calling for any rough stuff to affect ya?


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## Bruce

Nah, it is going south of us. Not much south, but enough that we will get < 1" of snow if any at all.

Not much going on here, I've been posting little things on other's journals when appropriate. I did get the gas trimmer out and start clearing the old rusty chicken wire fence around the pond. Can't get the rusty wire and rotted wood out if I can't get to it  I want to collect all the old metal I find on the place so I have 1 trip to the recyclers. And I keep finding more. DW and I tromped around the perimeter of the fields on our snow shoes a few weeks back (when we had snow) and I spotted some rolled up field fence just past the NW corner of the fields. Couldn't get it out since it was frozen into the ground. Also found more old hot wire and pulled what I could but again some frozen in.

I went back out last week after the snow left and it had been above freezing some. Still couldn't get the old field fencing free but found even more junk. Looks like part of a metal bed frame with some springs, some small pieces of fencing, a rusty milk can (~5 gallon??) some really old rusty barbed wire. I got most of that out but the milk can and the BW, it is really brittle and breaks off rather than pulling out of the ground where is was frozen in. So I have to go back when it warms up even more. Of course that also means it will be soggier getting there. I did get (I THINK!!!) all of the old hot wire free. But then I've thought that a couple of times already.


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## CntryBoy777

Glad to hear it isn't bringing ya grief to deal with. We pick up shards of glass eveywhere around here....I think in the past somebody used glass bottles and stuff to shoot for targets. It seems when we have heavy rains there is more brought to the surface or is uncovered with the water washing out the mole/vole tunnels.....


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## Mike CHS

Once we get the bulk of the junk we are currently working on getting rid of I'm going to fence around the ditch to keep the sheep out of it.  No end to the broken glass.


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## Baymule

Our place was covered with trash too. Old trash and new trash, the people this was repo'd from never had trash service and threw everything out on the place. No wonder they couldn't pay the mortgage with all the beer bottles and beer cans laying around. The old trash is from probably 50-60 years ago and is mostly glass shards and metal bits. 

Good luck Bruce on getting all you can get picked up and cleaned up. In times past, it was acceptable to have a burn barrel and dump it out on the property. It was acceptable to fill in holes and gullies with all manner of trash and cast offs.  The problem now is, we don't want trash on our property and we work hard to clean it up. We politely offer a coffee can to people who smoke to put their butts in.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> In times past, it was acceptable to have a burn barrel and dump it out on the property.


I still have one and use it a couple times/week. The problems arise when people burn types of plastic that will only melt or don't tend their trash fires and it doesn't burn completely and they end up dumping out partially unburned raw wet garbage on the ground. I've been using the same drum for nearly 2 years now and it still isn't 1/2 full of ashes. Glass and metal go to the county compactor so they can bury it in a big hole for the garbage to become leachate to get into the ground water for future generations to deal with in spite of what they may claim. Liners, do not have a 'forever impermeable'  life.  EPA will tell you the same thing.

I've been on lots of farms and ranches from here to West and South Texas and don't personally  know of a single one that doesn't burn their own household garbage and much if not all their farm related garbage.


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## Bruce

Burning trash wasn't such a big problem before plastics and styrofoam were invented. Now there is a WHOLE lot of stuff that shouldn't be burned but some folks just don't care.


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## Mike CHS

We burn paper trash but everything else gets taken to the recycle drops or the trash drop off center.


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## CntryBoy777

We never burn anything but plant material and junk mail to get it started....food scraps go to the chickens and everything else is picked up in the trash. The landfill is a mile and a quarter up the road, so taking things there is fairly easy and doesn't take very long.


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## Bruce

Took the camera out today. As you can see, my burn pile isn't near as big as some of what you have!
I was only 6' from the pile in the second picture and you can see my shadow for size comparison. Still looks pretty big to me but as you can see, it isn't close to any buildings.

  

And because I had the camera - "livestock" photos
Laddie, Teddy, chickens in the barn alley


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## CntryBoy777

I wouldn't be too concerned about burning that pile, but I would wait until the breeze is blowing from the house to the pile....that way the smoke won't engulf the house and some things burning don't always have a pleasent smell to them....
The boys and girls look like they are certainly enjoying theirselves and the sunshine too....


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## Latestarter

I believe you folks are about to get some snow... Perfect opportunity to get that mess burned. I'd be a bit concerned about all that long dead grass right up to the burn circle, so burning when it's snowing would be good. Either that or mow it down real close for a bit out from the circle.


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## Bruce

The pile is in, I guess, a burn pit. Totally encircled with large stones. I suppose I could get the trimmer out and beat up some plastic string, got more gas for it today. How well will that pile burn with 8" of snow on top? I could melt it with with my 500K BTU/hr flame thrower  Of course that might make the stuff I want to burn sort of soggy.


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## Latestarter

A gallon of diesel fuel, (or kerosene, or gasoline) in that preferred order, liberally applied to the center of the pile with a trail leading off to one "lighting" spot should solve any moisture issues. I roll up a piece of newspaper and dip the end in the flammable liquid as well to ensure it stays burning. I then light the paper and then the pile with the lit paper. I'd had 10" of rain over a week+ period and my pile burned down to an ash pile.  No sweat, no strain.


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## CntryBoy777

I use waded up paper or a low roll of toilet paper and soak it for just a few seconds in rubbing alcohol put it in under some dry stuff and lite it with a Bic lighter....the alcohol will burn longer than the paper and will catch on the wood....if snow is on top just pull it out some and pour a pint of it on the pile itself and lite it up....as long as the snow isn't dripping directly on what is burning it should continue to burn as the wood thaws and warms....I've used the other too....but, alcohol doesn't have the flash of gas and evaporates much quicker than diesel or kerosene.


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## Mike CHS

This is a marathon on how to start a burn pile.  

Kerosene is my favorite but I like to do several paper towels saturated with cooking oil (or bacon grease) works just like my grill.


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## greybeard

Rubbing alcohol (isopropanol) has a lower flash (ignition) point than gasoline and it's vapor is just as bad to flash as gasoline.....you just don't see it. It burns almost invisible.  It is the evaporation that burns the easiest and fastest, but produces fewer BTUs over gasoline--about 1/2 as much. Because of the comparative low BTU rating/gal  of alcohol (approx 14,000) versus gasoline (120,000 btu) and diesel (138,000 btu/gal) , alcohol is a very poor fire starter....not to mention 70% alcohol is anywhere from$15-$30/gallon. 

If you've ever seen the youtube vids of the "Talledaga invisible pit row fire", that was a form of alcohol..methanol. Rubbing alcohol does the same thing. 

Rubbing alcohol very dangerous and is only approved as an energy source in certain alcohol camp stoves. I won't have one around. Curtains and walls have caught on fire when rubbing alcohol reached an ignition source and the residents never saw the initial flames that ignited the home furnishings. It's simply bad juju.
a 4:1-6:1  mix of diesel/gasoline will ignite easily without a big flash off, will burn longer and hotter than alcohol and imo, is much safer than alcohol for starting a fire. This mixture is what Foresters use to safely start back burns and prescribed burns.


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## Latestarter

If you want spectacular ignition, go to the local airport & get a gallon of avgas to use. I believe it's between 115 and 125 octane. Should blow up quite nicely!


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## Bruce

I'll be right behind you when you come up here to do that for me @Latestarter. 

And by "right behind" I mean 100 yards away at the edge of the woods to the west!
Please wait for a low velocity north wind.


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## Bruce

OK, I'm thinking maybe Sunday. Winds NNW at 6 or 7, perfect direction and I THINK not too strong.

I collected up all the branches and pine cones around the old oak and the pine on the SE side of the house and added them to the pile. Covered it with a big tarp so the pile won't be full of snow from the next couple of days.

I have a plan worked out given all the advice here.
Mix rubbing alcohol with diesel fuel and gasoline, add some aviation fuel for good measure. Soak the pile and make a trail starting on the windward "side" running out to the SE and light with a match while standing next to that "fuse".

Is that about right? 

OK, for real, about how much of the 4:1 - 6:1 diesel:gas mixture would a person need for a pile of this size? Should I be putting it on the entire pile or only on the downwind side where I will lighting it and the rest will burn naturally? There is no green wood in the pile but are some pine branches that I cut out of the tree by the pool, mostly dead when I cut them. Some of the stuff on the bottom has been there for 6 years, could be compost by now!

This is a picture of my fence plan, prior to installation. You've seen it before but probably didn't pay attention to the burn pit. It is that round grayish thing center right north of the garden and to the right of the fence.


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## Latestarter

Sounds like you've got it down perfect! like a science! I'd go with that plan almost exactly   Will be diligently waiting for "film at eleven"  

The more liquid enhancer you deliver, the faster and more comprehensive the burn will be. Being the generous (and apparently accident prone) person that I am, I'd use a 5 gallon container for ease of measurement and fill with 4 gallons of diesel followed by 1 gallon of gas at the local filling station. I know I could get those measures correct by reading them right off the pump as I filled. Then liberally apply obtained mixture over the center area and light.

Actually, 1/2 gallon should be adequate I'd guess.  I don't measure for things like this. I use what I have in an amount that "seems right"... I also don't "pour" it on... I "throw" it to get a better/lighter/more even dispersion over the entire area. With straight gas, that causes highly flammable fumes which (creep along the ground) causes the "WHOOSH" or "WOOOF" if you prefer. That shouldn't happen with the mixture.

Wishing you success. I'm sure you'll be glad when it's done and gone.


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## CntryBoy777

We have several burn piles in different locations and as a rule, we don't let it above waist hi before we burn....summer is knee high.....and we only vuse waded paper to light it.....most of the branches and limbs that fall are dead when they fall, so not much is needed to get them burning...we always have way more dry than green, so it is easy to mix them as we burn....we had one pile that we kept burning for 4 days before conditions put it out. My Dad thought if it wasn't head hi it was fine and it had to be Big.....he thought what I do was a waste of time.....


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## Wehner Homestead

We don’t typically use accelerants. Pieces of paper feed sacks work well as starter. Depending on the size of the pile, we may start it in a few spots around the circumference.


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## Bruce

We don't get feed in paper sacks anymore, all types seem to be plastic now.


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## Wehner Homestead

Newspaper? We’ve done that before. We have a local, family-owned feed store/mill that uses paper sacks still.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> bout how much of the 4:1 - 6:1 diesel:gas mixture would a person need for a pile of this size?


Not much. 
You don't want the mixture to burn the fire..just to get it started.
About 1 or 2  coffee mug's worth  should be plenty. 
Those unwanted,  unsolicited, no-one-ever-reads-anyway piles of mailbox ads and 'circulars' with a little straight diesel on them will work too. 

(I cannot believe, 1 million years after homo erectus [back in the Pleistocene geological epoch] learned how to make and control fire, that modern man is questioning how to do it)


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> (I cannot believe, 1 million years after homo erectus [back in the Pleistocene geological epoch] learned how to make and control fire, that modern man is questioning how to do it)


We forget how to do things that we haven't been taught to do , want to be careful I don't create a hazard.  Lots of people douse with gasoline so one could think "hey that must be a good way". Only I've read enough to know that is not real safe. Not that it CAN'T be done, but dangerous if done wrong. 

I watched the neighbors to the SW figuring out how to control a fire they started last summer. Too far from the house for a hose. Lots of bucket running and shovels and running around. I think they might have needed new underwear when they were done. Of course I will have snow all around my burn pile not weeds. They never mow their field. I think maybe they didn't think before they started theirs.


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## greybeard

I have seen, people throw a coffeecan sized quantity of gasoline on a pile from an approved gas can and set the closed container down about 10 yards away, and when they set the pile ablaze, the fire flash followed an invisible path of gas fumes back to the can. It didn't ignite the closed container but set the grass afire along the path  and sure made a believer out of them.


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## CntryBoy777

Well, I do what I do in a totally safe manner, but have had my share of whoooops!! situations. A shovel can be a great tool if ya know how to handle it and observe the fire as it burns. I have burned whole fields, but have cut them down beforehand and the conditions have to be right.....but, I never leave one unattended until all dangers have passed.


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## Bruce

OK, I would feel a bit silly going to the gas station for 2-3 cups of diesel fuel. I had another thought though. I have a bunch of liquid paraffin that I keep for oil lamps when the power goes out. Flammable but not explosive. Could I soak a partial TP roll or almost done paper towel roll in that and use it as the "core" of the fire?


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## CntryBoy777

As long as it will burn ya should be just fine...once it is started the piled up fuel will take care of itself....


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## Latestarter

Gosh folks... it's not brain surgery here... go light the pile on fire.


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## Mike CHS

snow is the best bed


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## Bruce

Wind prediction for tomorrow is now 10 MPH WNW. Not at the house but clocking more west later in the day. Is 10 MPH OK, marginal, maybe not so good? 

How long will this pile take to burn? Monday is SE at 0 (wind direction with no velocity??) early, clocking to N mostly under 3 MPH, no more than 5 MPHnby 4 PM so that is better but I wouldn't be able to start it until about 1 PM since I have an appointment at 12:30. Certainly wouldn't want to start it earlier and leave it unless maybe it would be burned down by noon or enough that I could call it done and put it out. 

Sorry for all the wishy washiness Joe, I'm a newbie!


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## CntryBoy777

I've burned in 10mph wind without any problem....just keep watch on it until the the bulk is burned at least halfway down and ya should be good to go....just lite the downwind side of the pile and the wind will keep the flames from sweeping thru the whole pile at once....this will also provide an ember field for the windward side to blow anything on for added protection....have a shovel with ya and ya should be good....Happy Burning!!....and take a pic or 2 of your accomplishment.....


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## Bruce

Or the inferno


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## CntryBoy777

I doubt it will burn as ya are thinking it might....ya been watching too many movies....unless it is grass or leaves ya won't have to fight the flames and burning materials leaving the area. Just get it started and the wood will provide the fuel and the flames will do the work....just enjoy watching it....if ya watch the pine cones they will burn different colors, too....


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## greybeard

10mph is a pretty good wind but manageable if humidity is high. 
If you have snow on the ground or the nasty slop that follows a snow melt, you should be fine. 
How long? Depends the wood type, moisture in the wood and density.
Dense damp wood will mostly slowly ember itself to death after the initial flames die down. I've had piles slowly smolder for weeks..even after heavy rains fell on the embered logs and heavy branches. . I just kept re-piling the remains till it all burned up.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> if ya watch the pine cones they will burn different colors, too....


That will be cool. Probably won't show up well in pictures I suppose.


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## Latestarter

10 mph isn't too bad since everything around it will be white &/or wet. Monday should be fine and I typically don't start my fires till late afternoon or supper time. After dark, it's a lot easier to see if embers have blown/spread or the fire is escaping its area. I use a short tine garden rake as I can flip it to the flat side to push or use the tines to pull. My huge piles were down to a coal and large log bed in a couple of hours. The coals continued to finish burning for a couple of days. If you start it at 1pm, it should be down to a bed of coals before nightfall unless it's very wet/damp/rotten wood which smolders and takes longer to consume. If the latter IS the case, then you should have no fears about leaving it to smolder overnight. Once down to smoldering coals, the danger of it spreading is nil.


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## Bruce

Saw your post Monday after I did the burn. I bet the garden rake would have worked better for moving wood in the pile than the shovel.

Weed burner to start the fire and the liquid paraffin soaked partial TP roll with paper towel wick. It is in the small dark area to the left of the propane tank in the first picture.

  

Conflagration! I used the flame thrower on the TP roll and to the right. Couldn't get it to light on the left ?? 
   

After 1 hour, almost done! Only not! The last picture is after almost 3 hours. That had burned (smoldered?) to pretty much nothing by the time I got back from the dentist and grocery store at 2.
   

Comments:

One gets even greater respect for firefighters when realizing you can't get 6' from this pretty small fire at the beginning when it was really flaming. I can't imagine the heat coming off a structure fire.
The pit is 10'-12' in diameter on the inside. Too big to easily reach the stuff you want to move around to get it all burned. I had to keep moving partially burned stuff from right to left (relative to the first picture).


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## Bruce

Wildlife seen while burning - Crows overhead
 

No so wild - Alpacas. Teddy had a "snow bath", much had fallen off by the time I got the camera out. Laddie is NOT wearing a blue coat, that is smoke blowing in front of the camera.


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## Wehner Homestead

That smoke gives Laddie an interesting look! 

Congratulations on accomplishing your burn!


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## CntryBoy777

Alright!!....knew ya could do it.....
The remnants can be piled up and burned with the next pile. They do put off some heat and on a hot summer day ya sure don't stand very close for very long a time. That is funny that the smoke did that.....


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## greybeard

I usually use a pitchfork or a long handled manure fork to sift thru and get the unburned stuff out of smaller piles. 
On the big piles I had, I just put the tractor in a higher gear, ran thru the piles with my landscape rake behind and drug all the chunks out where it was cool damp grass and re-piled them and started again. (praying the whole time the tractor didn't die in the middle of the hot coals and every once in a while, drove thru some mud or standing water to cool the tires off) 
ain't skeered...


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## Latestarter




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## Bruce

Haven't had much to write about, been posting little things in other's journals. But today I have 6 new chicks, picked up from the PO just after 7 AM. Rebecca was plenty happy to send them out the window since, as expected, they were peeping loudly. As she said, people think it is so cute. It is, but not for long. Got them home and in their bedroom brooder in about 15 minutes. Yep that is about as much peeping as I need too. Poor DW has to listen to that quite a bit this time of year.

Their temporary home (at least until tomorrow)


3 of them found the MHP cave before I even showed it to them. All inside, all quiet. Heat lamp users go get your ear plugs.


They came out 1/2 hour later to eat and drink. The second picture shows all 4 breeds. Lower left clockwise: Barred Rock, Welsummer (replacement for Betty 2017 chick who died 2 weeks ago), Golden Campine, Barnevelder (replacement for Trouble the accidental cockerel from last year).
  

Anais went broody last week, I moved her to the brooder area in the coop Sunday night at 0 dark 30. When I tried moving her last year she kept going back to the nest box. 24" off the ground in a box not big enough for food or water isn't a good place to raise chicks. She ended up in the broody buster and the chicks were "raised" with their MHP cave.

This time I put a cover over the brooder area so she is "in jail". She was up and around Monday morning whereas in the nest box she was glued to her plastic egg. I gave her some food and water which she made use of. Again something she wouldn't do in the nest box. But she screamed at me when I tried to give her scratch that evening. She didn't even look at the BOSS this morning so MAYBE she is going to be broody enough to stuff chicks under tomorrow night. If not, it is back to the buster for her and the MHP cave will move to the brooder area in the coop.

I HOPE she will stick it out, hen raised chicks learn so much from mama and she was Zorra's "helper" with  the 2015 chicks. She even stuck with them a couple of weeks after Zorra kicked them to the curb so I know she has an interest.


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## Latestarter

Good luck with placement.


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## Bruce

Happy girls this morning


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## Bruce

Stuffing chicks under Anais was a total fail. Brought them back in the house. Put them outside on Tuesday when it warmed up


That night instead of going into their MHP cave they were all piled in the corner of the brooder area behind the feeder. That would be to the right in this picture. I shoved them in their cave and checked an hour later, they were still there.


Yesterday the little daredevil Barred Rock flew up on top of the feeder then shot straight up out the 2x4 welded wire top. At least 8" . I put a heavy cloth over the brooder in that area so she couldn't do it again. If she decided to drop down into the coop there is no way she could get back in the brooder.

Last night they weren't in the corner. GREAT they must be in the cave. Nope, I heard a bit of noise and found them all in the "well" between their glass door to the run and the board that keeps the shavings in the coop. Here are 2 of them sitting on that board watching the "outside" world. You can see the "well" in this picture.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like they are having a Blast checking out the area....also, much better lively...well, than the alternative...


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## Bruce

That is very true. Tomorrow I'm going to enclose a small part of the barn alley outside their door so they can explore beyond their brooder. The brooder area is against the west wall inside the coop. Other than light coming through their door and some from that end of the brooder, it is pretty dark in there.

BTW, had to move them out of that "well" again tonight. 90°F required 24x7 my ass.


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## Wehner Homestead

I completely agree on the temp. We leave our brooder in the garage that stays about 45 in winter and 75 in summer. Heat lamp is at a set level. They have mesh over so that air movement is good. Ours never stay right under the light, only on the edges. It works for them. Of course, our smallest group was 10 so they have plenty of body heat too.


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## Bruce

Accidentally solved the problem of the kids piling into the window well at night. They have their little run area (though a few have somehow managed to escape it) accessed by their open door. When the door is open, there is no well so they can't pig pile in there. They were all in their MHP cave last evening since it was fairly cool and their door was left open until about 7 PM.


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## Mike CHS

Accidentally or otherwise it's always nice to have a problem go away.


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## Bruce

Yep. 

I massively increased their run space today. They had a circle (ish) about 3' in diameter, now they have everything north of their door which includes the alley in front of the next stall, the alpacas' area and their 'alley' to their door. I don't expect the littles to go that far for awhile though they are 2 weeks old today and I think the batch last year started to get pretty brave and exploring further afield by 3 weeks. They spent most of their time in their MHP cave today as far as I could tell since it was only 50°F and the sun doesn't hit the alley until about 5 PM. DW went out when she came home from work and said they were out in a sun spot.


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## Bruce

The "kids" decided to escape their side of the chicken wire fence by going under it. Near as I can tell all the older birds ignore them, probably think they aren't any different than the wild finches/sparrows that come in and raid their feeder in the coop. Clemence (Faverolles) seems to show some interest in them, maybe she will decide to shepherd them around. 

What happened to my chick???
 
Sun bath attack! This is Betty. DD1 is having a hard time with me calling Betty's replacement Betty. But she'll get over it, I figure if we have a Veronica we should have a Betty. The DDs did admit that every albino catfish we have had was named Whitey except when there were two then the other one was Lighty.

Here are all the chicks sunbathing
 

The Barred Rocks don't seem to mind being handled at all. In fact they will step on my hand and hang out when I lift them up. Then stay on my hand when I put it back near the ground. 
This is DD2 with Vienna
 

And DD1 with Arcadia on her shoulder and one of the Golden Campines in her hand
 

And the boys


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## CntryBoy777

I just love those little peepers!!....and it seems the boys are at least staying in the same room with ya....


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## Bruce

Unless I go into their area, that picture was taken from the chicken side of the gate. It was warm 2 days in a row so I opened the door at their end of the alley each morning. They went out their "always open" door when I went to open the alley door. And when I went to close it, they went out that door and had to come back in the always open door.


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## RollingAcres

Nice pics! I love seeing chicks/chicken/dogs/cats or any animals "sunbathing".


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## Baymule

It's hard to beat chicks for cuteness. Tiny little balls of fluff, but with an agenda to eat and grow! You keep an interesting mix of breeds. I think it is more fun to keep a mixed flock, for all the different colors and feather patterns. It also makes it easier to tell them apart, LOL


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## Bruce

Yep, and I still screw up. Got all the chickens behind the gate last night before going out to dinner. I swear I counted 15 (not including the chicks). Got home from dinner and Angel was at the gate, wrong side, and came to the car.  I swear I counted 15!! Next time I better count to 15 AND make sure I have the right number of different colored or breed of bird. 

Vienna seems to think she should be a pet or something. I went into the barn earlier and all the kids were together on their side of the chicken wire (which they can get under). She split from the group and came under the wire. I put my hand down and she hopped in.


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## Baymule

Aww.....that is sweet. Vienna needs a treat!


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## Bruce

Pictures of the "kids" at 3 weeks + 1 day
Their "enclosure" in the run is a chicken wire fence just past the open people door to the coop. As you can see, they don't mind being on the wrong side of it.

  

One of the Golden Campines is about as friendly as Vienna (the BR). She has a name, I just don't know what it is.
 

Here she is with Vienna hanging out in the open people door to the coop
 

The Barnevelder
 

Betty the Welsummer on the right, most of a Barred Rock on the left.
 

A bunch of the girls pecking at a door. I have no idea why


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## Bruce

It wasn't supposed to rain at all this week, Mr NOAA said so as late as Monday afternoon and I watered the garden, waiting for most things to come up since they were planted recently. He changed his mind overnight and it rained a good part of yesterday. So much for mowing the lawn and planting more stuff yesterday. Will plant today but will wait until tomorrow to mow so the grass has a chance to dry some.

Need to vacuum dirt out of the pool and get the solar cover on. DW thinks she wants to use it at least once this month. She's the only one that will though, other than Sharky the thermometer.

All of 39°F overnight, supposed to get just over 70°F later this afternoon. Hopefully it will so I can open some windows and warm up the house.


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## RollingAcres

Down poured here yesterday, I guess some parts (south of where I am) got hit with pretty severe thunderstorm and golf ball size hail. I haven't really planted anything outside yet, other than some lettuce and peas.


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## Hens and Roos

we are drying out from the rain we got Monday, our garden will have to be tilled again before planting...


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## Bruce

Chicks at 4 weeks

 
We've twice found Arcadia thinking she should be up on the roosts. The first night there were none of the older hens anywhere near her so we put her in the brooder with the other kids so she would have someone to cuddle with. The next night there were other chickens on that part of the roost and she was wandering around. I had to get Nuit out of a nest box. She had been in the broody buster in the next stall/coop but wanted out so bad she had bloodied her comb and a toe so I had let her out for the day. Never had a bird want out that bad. There got to be too much commotion so again Arcadia was put in the brooder area with her "friends". Last night the entire group of 6 was in a pig pile on top of the brooder area in the corner. Perhaps they will all move up to the roosts en mass. 

Al, my wood supplier who said he wasn't cutting after last year (he's pushing 70) talked to me this winter and said he got bored and cut some wood so I could get my 4 cords this year. BUT, on Monday night he called to say he had it stacked and it wasn't near the 10 cords he thought he would have. So now I'm back to getting my wood for the year by other means. This tree was free, it was in the bottom of the truck that brought my (court forced) cut down sugar maple from the other house. So I cut it up, here are a couple of  "mid work" shots, I still need to split and stack it. BIG (at least to me) tree but it is likely only about 2 runs. Lotta tree for a 16" "homeowner model" chain saw, fortunately I won't be cutting anything near that big again.
 

Ornamental cherry in front of the barn by the road, the driveway circles around it, the chickens love the cherries in the fall.


DW and DD1 have been planting pansies. Apparently DW wanting some pansies didn't mean an entire flat. Oh well. They planted the tulips last fall, the daffodils and other plants came with the house.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I have some oaks here that really need to come down...ya can have all ya wish for free....just come and get it....I'll even help ya cut it up....


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## RollingAcres

Free wood is always a plus! 
Beautiful cherry tree! We don't have cherry, just apples, pear and mini plums.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> I have some oaks here that really need to come down...ya can have all ya wish for free....just come and get it....I'll even help ya cut it up....


Thanks @CntryBoy777 but I don't think I can carry enough in my Prius to make it worth while. 

We have one puny sickly apple (red, don't know the variety) tree in the yard. There were 4 but 3 died over the winter a few years ago. And there are a couple at the edge of the woods that look like they were planted by someone going by on a tractor. I think when I cut I will daylight those 2 trees since they are good size. I would like to have pear, plum and peach trees.


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## Mike CHS

That cherry tree is beautiful.  We picked a bunch of cherries off of our dwarf cherry yesterday which is the first time we were able to get any before the birds found them.


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## Bruce

Chicks 1 day shy of 5 weeks. They all slept in their pig pile on top of the brooder again last night.
         

3rd chick is a Golden Campine, then Betty (Welsummer) and the head of a Campine, the Barnevelder, Vienna, Arcadia and the Campines.  The last chick is Vienna. I didn't pick her up, she jumped in my hand when I put it near the ground. 

The chicken auto door was only half open this morning. I figured that after 2.5 years the two 6V lantern batteries were shot. I've been expecting that for the last 1.5 years! So I taped together the ones I bought 1.5 years ago and connected them to the door. No go but the door's battery status light shows green. I reconnected the old ones just to see and yes, the light is red. Those batteries read just shy of 11V. I put the new ones back on and slowly forced the door closed. It sounded like a hot water heat system valve motor when you force it to open the valve. I'll open the motor box and look inside but I doubt it is anything I can fix. Will probably have to order a new motor.


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## CntryBoy777

They are so Cute!!....and seem to be personable too...
In this disposable world we live in....things aren't made to last forever....especially in the extremes ya have it working in....


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## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> In this disposable world we live in....things aren't made to last forever....especially in the extremes ya have it working in....


If you make them last forever than you won't get to make money. Instead of making something that works and lasts, most companies make half a** stuff, so you can keep buying them and they can keep making money.


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## Bruce

Got the door fixed. As usual, didn't do anything that should have been useful. I took the cover off and connected the old batteries to the contacts on the motor. The closed door tried to move. Reversed the wires, door opened. Reversed the wires, door closed. Put the cover back on and the door has been working fine.


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## Wehner Homestead

Who knows?! Just glad it’s functioning again!


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## CntryBoy777

I bet it was that thing-a-may-bob....or, that thing-a-ma-jig....you messing with it unstuck it somehow and it started working........


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## Mike CHS

I think it's just some of that Vermont know-how.


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## Bruce

I think you guys are right. It was definitely the thing-a-ma-jig! And I used my learned Vermont know-how to strip some wire and connect the battery. et voila!


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## Wehner Homestead

Good job @Bruce !!!


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I think you guys are right. It was definitely the thing-a-ma-jig! And I used my learned Vermont know-how to strip some wire and connect the battery. et voila!


oops...........







 

story at 11...


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## Wehner Homestead

Yikes!!!


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## Bruce

Fortunately I didn't leave the 2 6V batteries connected very long and I was right there @greybeard  

Little Barnevelder gave us a scare last night. Only found 5 chicks on top of the brooder. They get pretty loud if they are separated from their flock mates and I heard nothing. Then DW managed to spot her on the Broody buster support behind one of the Faverolles. Phew! Tonight she was down with the other 5.


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## Bruce

Last night she was back up. Tonight one of the Golden Campines was up with her. Given how the older girls fight for "ownership" of that location and there are usually at least 6 crammed on it I am amazed that they have ceded the left side to two impertinent 6 week old chicks.

Dad and sister are visiting from So Cal. Yesterday and today we split the big tree I had cut into 16" pieces. I had hand sledge and wedge split the biggest ones in half. I bet they still weighed over 10 pounds each. Sadly, big as the tree appeared to me, it was less than half a cord. That means I have a LOT of reasonable sized trees to cut and split in the relatively near future.


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## CntryBoy777

That's great news that ya have family visiting........sure hope all have an enjoyable time there. I sure wish I could give ya some of the trees from here....you'd have enough for yrs to come.....


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## RollingAcres

It's nice to have the extra help. Enjoy their visit!


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## Bruce

I got plenty of trees, but the rest of them aren't already cut and in front of the barn.

This

 

Turned into this. Seemed like a big tree but only about 1/2 cord of wood.

Dad on left, me on right, sister taking the picture. Bunch of old people working. Dad will be 90 in Oct, sister 65 in Nov.
 

The alpaca's were "playing". At least that is what my sister thought when she took this video. They are actually being aggressive with each other. I think many, but especially @Mike CHS, will have sympathy for how the video ends. You'll want the sound up loud. The talking voice is DW.





Shoulda told my sister about the hot wire I guess.

3 of the now 6 week old chicks were up in the NE corner of the broody buster support tonight. The closest hen was one of the Faverolles. I didn't think to check which one but neither is close to dominant in the flock so I'm still flummoxed as to why the littles are being allowed to take over a spot on the roost favored by many of the older girls.  Now, how long before the rest of the 6 go up?


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## Pastor Dave

I would not have guessed the fella in the pic is almost 90! He looks to be doing real well.


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## greybeard

This is how we learn...............about joules and volts and grounds oh my!


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## Bruce

Yep, only needs the plastic part of his artificial ankle replaced. That will happen later this month.


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## Latestarter

Have to agree, neither of you look as old as you are. Good that he's in great shape and bodes well for your continued longevity. Sorry but had to laugh out loud at sis. I did as instructed and turned the sound up...  Both the paca boys look like they could use another shearing.


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## Bruce

Yep, it is shearing time. You saw how grayish Teddy is? He is a black alpaca, all that gray is from his dirt baths. Not sure how I'm going to brush that out so the shears don't get dull with the first pass. 

Sister laughed at the video too. Probably not so much when it happened. I wasn't there, DW mentioned that she had hit the wire, I didn't find out that there was video/audio evidence of the event until later.


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## Baymule

I love active older people. Ever catch yourself referring to “old” people that are younger than you? LOL Glad you got to spend time with your Dad and sister.


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## Mike CHS

I made it a point to not laugh when your sister hit the wire.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Ever catch yourself referring to “old” people that are younger than you?


Not yet though I suppose there may come a time. My problem is I would describe a female in her 30's as "a girl" not a woman. "Women" are older than me! Or at least close to my age, I don't refer to DW (6 years younger) as "a girl". But I suppose even my DDs now 23 and 25 are women, right? Nope, can't do it, they are still girls.


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## Pastor Dave

I have a hiccup with the women/girls terminology. Not out of disrespect, but out of age factor. I tend to use the term ladies. It works for girls, oh say 10+ on through high school age and college, and I think it continues to work up to infinity. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Lol


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## CntryBoy777

That is great that your Dad is in such good health, he sure looks to be getting around pretty good to have ankle problems........looks like ya did quite a bit of work getting that tree down to size and even tho it isn't enough for winter, ya got it cleaned up and stacked just waiting to get used. Ya know those youngsters may be a bit fiestier than the older ones and I've always been told that it is the rooster that controls the roost, so without the enforcer being there, the young ones are quicker to the spots.
I think in that short video there are a couple of definitions of "charge" contained in it....hope your sister took it well.....


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Shoulda told my sister about the hot wire I guess.


Your poor sister! Sorry I laughed, I really tried not to....



Bruce said:


> My problem is I would describe a female in her 30's as "a girl" not a woman. "Women" are older than me! Or at least close to my age, I don't refer to DW (6 years younger) as "a girl". But I suppose even my DDs now 23 and 25 are women, right?


What about females in the 40s? lol



Pastor Dave said:


> I tend to use the term ladies. It works for girls, oh say 10+ on through high school age and college, and I think it continues to work up to infinity.


I agree!


----------



## greybeard

RollingAcres said:


> What about females in the 40s? lol



Of course, there is that urban dictionary 'feline scale' that explains every female age group...
Search at your own discretion........


----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> Of course, there is that urban dictionary 'feline scale' that explains every female age group...
> Search at your own discretion........


Oh boy....


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## Wehner Homestead

greybeard said:


> Of course, there is that urban dictionary 'feline scale' that explains every female age group...
> Search at your own discretion........



I’m going to just laugh and leave it at that.


----------



## greybeard

Also one for males, called the canine scale...again, search at your own peril guys.


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## Bruce

Pastor Dave said:


> I have a hiccup with the women/girls terminology. Not out of disrespect, but out of age factor. I tend to use the term ladies. It works for girls, oh say 10+ on through high school age and college, and I think it continues to work up to infinity. Someone correct me if I am wrong. Lol


MANY years ago I was walking down a hall between buildings at work, saw a group of 3-4 female people I knew coming my direction. Well a person can't say hi to each by name when passing in opposite directions so I just said "Hi ladies". One of them was offended, like I was calling them "Ladies of the evening". Can't win! 



RollingAcres said:


> What about females in the 40s? lol


Well now we are getting into the finer details. I guess by then they could be women. But what about when I'm 70? Many females in their 40s will be girls again!

3 littles up top again tonight. Closest hens were Mellori (3 Y/O BA) and Anais (6 year old Faverolles). They weren't cuddle up close, maybe a foot or so away. The littles have to be flying up from the top of the brooder area below. I can't believe they are going up the ramp and making their way past the older girls (or is that women??).


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> I can't believe they are going up the ramp and making their way past the older girls (or is that women??).



Pssssstttt........Bruce! They are hens!


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Pssssstttt........Bruce! They are hens!


Are you talking about the poultry or 70 year old  human females?


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## Wehner Homestead




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## Baymule

greybeard said:


> Are you talking about the poultry or 70 year old  human females?


Both. A gathering of ........ ahem......."mature" ladies is referred to as a "hen party".


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Both. A gathering of ........ ahem......."mature" ladies is referred to as a "hen party".


I was well aware of that, except around here it's usually something like 'Them old women are sitting around gossiping like a bunch of old hens'..

(see..when you're old yourself like I am, you can talk about other old people..them's the rules...)


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## Bruce

Yeah I wouldn't refer to ANY group of female humans as a "hen party". I'm pretty sure that has a negative connotation.


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> I can't believe they are going up the ramp and making their way past the older girls (or is that women??).





Baymule said:


> Pssssstttt........Bruce! They are hens!





greybeard said:


> Are you talking about the poultry or 70 year old human females?


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Yeah I wouldn't refer to ANY group of female humans as a "hen party". I'm pretty sure that has a negative connotation.


Right! Cuz if you did, you'd definitely get this:


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Yeah I wouldn't refer to ANY group of female humans as a "hen party". I'm pretty sure that has a negative connotation.



I guess I'm just not into all this new age  avante gard political correctness thing and not much on sensitivity training either.


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## RollingAcres

People get too sensitive and too easily offended by anything and everything nowadays. You breath the air a little too hard and someone gets offended.
But I think(so far from experience) we have a good group of people with lots of sense of humor around here in BYH.


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## Baymule

If I have offended anyone in any way during my time here on BYH........ it was not on purpose. I promise that if you will let me know, I will mend my ways and make sure to insult you on purpose next time!


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## Bruce

Atta girl, er woman, Bay!!

Only 2 littles on the roost tonight.


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## Bruce

Lost one of the 6 Y/O Faverolles this morning. Not real surprised, she's mostly been hanging in the barn alley or just outside most days the last few weeks instead of going out to forage with the rest of the girls, er hens. But as recently as yesterday she was still running for morning BOSS and evening scratch. Time just caught up with her. First one I've lost that was "natural" end of life, not a predator or major medical issue. Thus now down to 4 of the original 12, all currently laying. Flock is now 14 hens and 6 nearly 7 week old (better be!) pullets.


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## Baymule

I had a 7 year old hen that died this spring. She was a black sex link with a red breast, we named her Robin. I took our oldest grand daughter to the feed store when she was 3 to get baby chicks. In my mind's eye I still see her carefully cradling the baby chicks in her hands. Robin was walked on a leash, a participant on "chicken on a string" in which she was tied to a brick so we could take her to the front yard at our old house. She had a bad attitude and was Queen Of The Coop. 

You know me and you know I am quick to butcher a hen when she no longer produces, but Robin had that special place in my heart. 

I am sorry about the loss of your hen. Just a chicken--uh...nope, she was a friend.


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## Baymule

Robin.


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## RollingAcres

@Bruce sorry for the loss of your hen.


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## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> If I have offended anyone in any way during my time here on BYH........ it was not on purpose. I promise that if you will let me know, I will mend my ways and make sure to insult you on purpose next time!


I like your attitude Bay! 



Bruce said:


> Atta girl, er woman, Bay!!


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## CntryBoy777

I know it seems but a short time, but 6 for a hen is a ripe old age....so, ya gave her a very good life and she thanked ya with eggs for quite a while....hope the young'uns ya have now can produce that long for ya, too......


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## Bruce

7 is quite long for a sexlink Bay! how long was she laying? One reason I've not gotten sex links is I understand they lay like the dickens but burn out fast.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> If I have offended anyone in any way during my time here on BYH........ it was not on purpose. I promise that if you will let me know, I will mend my ways and make sure to insult you on purpose next time!


This 'trigger happy cowboy' ain't skeered....


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## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> This 'trigger happy cowboy' ain't skeered....


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## Baymule

Robin laid a little past 3 years old. Sex links make great layers but are done after the 2nd molt.


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## Bruce

5 littles on the roost tonight. Betty (Welsummer) was down on the brooder by herself. I figured she wanted it that way and didn't disturb everyone by moving her up.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> If I have offended anyone in any way during my time here on BYH........ it was not on purpose. I promise that if you will let me know, I will mend my ways and make sure to insult you on purpose next time!





greybeard said:


> This 'trigger happy cowboy' ain't skeered....



Rumble!!!


----------



## Mini Horses

6 & 7 are really old for a hen.   I purchased 4 sex links once, about 3 yrs ago.  They were about 6 months at purchase and I have 2 left.  Both others just dropped over.  Mine did lay nice large eggs and I don't use lights in winter.  Expect to lose the last two in the next year.

Speaking of chickens....I was late closing the coop tonight and as I walked in with flashlight glaring, a long black shiny slid along a wall.  Quietly left & returned quickly and took action.  Been thinking the laying was off but...if the laying is off now, it won't be the fault of this one.


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## greybeard

Sserpentss make sskitissh.

http://www.wsfa.com/story/38376061/video-alabama-man-battles-headless-rattlesnake

rattlesnake head nearly kills man


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## Bruce

Looks like if you are going to mess with one end or the other of a snake who's head has been cut off, the tail end is the one you want. Until I read the first one I would have not thought it possible for the head to cause damage but it does make sense if the fang and poison sacs are intact.

People, be safe out there!!


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## Bruce

Went out at 8:15 to close up. All 6 littles were still outside, all the older girls were in the coop up on the roosts. Silly teenagers want to stay out late! I got them into the barn and noted that the west end of the north roosting section was already occupied by 2 hens so the littles wouldn't be going up there (I don't think). At that point I picked up Vienna (her choice) and was trying to corral the others into the coop. Most were in, 3 on the end of the brooder space and I was standing near the south roosts which are the newest (last year) and mostly unused by the older girls. The friendlier Campine came up the ramp so I put Vienna on the roost. Eventually they were all there but I had to "aid" (against her wishes) the Barnevelder onto the upper part of the ramp so she could be with the others.


----------



## Bruce

All the littles put themselves on that same roost tonight so tomorrow I can take the brooder out of the coop. Integration going well this time since the kids are using a roost that the older gals don't seem to favor. It has its own ramp so they don't have to go past the older birds to get to it though it does connect to the more forward of the rear roosts so it can be accessed from the top as well as via the ramp.


----------



## Bruce

All sorts of excitement to report here today 
Started the day with watering the garden. Followed by vacuuming the pool to waste. I think it is full of pollen. I had turned the pump off last night hoping some would settle to be vacuumed out. I just hate sending that much water out of the pool. By the time I was done the level was below the bottom of the skimmer. Had the hose in it for 5 hours, still need to add another inch or two of water.

Then time for lunch and forum reading.  Then I added a board to each side of the alpaca stand so they hopefully can't accidentally step off or intentionally kick me. Also put 3 cleats to the ramp, I don't think they felt they had traction on the grooved plastic mat last year. Of course they didn't have any desire to be on the stand AT ALL. Going to shear at least one tomorrow. Not really looking forward to that. While I was working on that Yue was in the nest box. She came out singing the egg song. Sorry Yue, you are an Ancona, you can't lay a green egg. Oh well, she tried. She is 6 years old after all. That makes her pretty old as layers go and she has been laying 1 or 2 a week this year.

Then I jacked up the GT on the lift, took off the "lawn" blades and cleaned the deck out. Put on the "field" blades. Mowed the perimeter of the fields. I saw a doe (the deer kind, not the rabbit or goat kind) about 100 yards from the north end of the NW field. She was in the tall stuff I wasn't near and watched me as I was going along the edge. Soon as I passed her position she took off north into the woods. Might have a baby in the tall grass somewhere. We've seen a doe and fawn at the edge of the woods. 

After dinner, time for closing the barn. DW says she sees a teeny bunny near the small barn. Yep, I saw it as it ran into the bushes. Went outside expecting all the birds to be in bed and saw

Actually what I saw was all the juvenile delinquents on the outside of the gate, they ran through while I turned the camera on. This is the gate all the older girls come to and run their tin cups over the bars when I don't let them out to play around the house.

Left to right:
Welsummer, Golden Campine, Barred Rock, Campine, Barnevelder, Rock


This is Vienna, the friendly Rock


After I closed up the barn I heard something run through the bushes behind the little barn (the birds pictured were in the ~15' space between the barns) and saw
 
It isn't quite as teeny as DW said, I would guess it to be about half size. A couple of years ago the little ones we saw would fit in a tea cup.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce..you got some pretty fast fingers and a sharp mind still........or, you can be 2 places at once....


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## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> Bruce..you got some pretty fast fingers and a sharp mind still........or, you can be 2 places at once....
> 
> View attachment 49633


----------



## Bruce

DW, DD1 and I cut toenails on the alpacas yesterday. First we had to trap them in the barn. They had come back  inside so I gave them some all stock pellets and DD1 snuck around the back of the barn and closed the far door on their "chute" in "alpaca alley". She barely got there in time, Teddy was suspicious and nervous, he was about to bolt out the door. Then we had to convince them they wanted their halters on. They got them but I don't think they were convinced THEY wanted them on.

Given their nails have not been done since Oct '16 (by the people who gave them to us) they were in pretty decent shape. We manage to do it with one person holding their neck and the other (me) leaning against them and cutting nails. They don't have a lot of hard surface (like almost none) to wear them down so while I still feel badly they weren't done earlier I'm glad they weren't suffering from my lack of action.

Then we sheared Laddie. Why him first? He was on the lead since his nails were done second. The stand needs more "features" added. He's a pain, I even had all 4 feet tied so he could not kick. But he managed to sink a number of times which isn't good since his head was tied tight at standing height. And he LEANED a LOT. I'm going to put removable side boards (so 'that' side can get sheared) and a 2x4 can take the lean instead of us. They weigh probably 30-40 pounds less than me, maybe 10 less than DW and probably 40-50 MORE than DD1. Also add a couple of boards up front, a single rope just isn't cutting it.

The shears worked as they did last year - about 3/4 of the blanket then they weren't cutting well. Given we screwed around with it for 3 hours last year I just quit using them and went to the hand shears and scissors. Got him done but I cut the top of his head a little when he jerked, no blood but skin open maybe a 1/4" circle  Got some triple antibiotic on that, took off the halter and let him loose. DD1 stated she does NOT volunteer to help shear Laddie next year.

I took the cutter out afterward and there was some fiber underneath. Last year I took the cutter out and cleaned a bunch of times trying to shear but things didn't improve. I was probably using too much oil but didn't want to futz with it this year. Might try the same camelid comb and cutter pair on Teddy, if they don't work I'll put on the other set which should work for at least some time. They could be dull, there is a TON of dirt way down deep.

This morning the boys were willing to get their pellets at the outside gate so I checked Laddie's head. Looked OK except there was a fly on it I wanted to put more ointment on it but of course he wouldn't let me touch him. So I tried to get a 10' rope around his neck. Um, nope, somehow he managed to get it wrapped twice around his neck and took off. After a few miles of walking around the pasture, filling in the partially dismantled old midline fence with sheep and goat field fence (conveniently left nearby from the fence work 1.5 years ago because it is HEAVY) and DW coming out we managed to get him to go up between the barns (front gate closed) and at least trapped. Long story slightly shorter I finally got him trapped next to the winter water thing just inside the barn and tied him to the non functional frost free spigot. At that point putting the ointment on was real easy. Wish they were smart enough to know I'm not going to kill them. I put his halter back on since I'm sure I'll need to put more ointment on. Not sure how I'll get a lead hooked to it though.

It will probably be at least a week, probably more, before we can trap Teddy to shear him. Clearly I need some way of confining them closer to the barn where they can be forced into the barn but that would require getting fence up to the barn wall and given all the rock (ie was originally foundation) I'm not sure how I can get a post in close enough to connect to. Might have to bolt into the framing. Then there is the question of "how do you get the buggers to go into the smaller area"? They sure know not to go in the barn. I need Mike's herding dogs!


----------



## CntryBoy777

What about making a sandwich chute with some CPs?....


----------



## Bruce

Thing is I would want it to be something that could be up only when I need it. Only need to shear them annually and even if I do their nails 2-3 times a year, anything permanent would be in the way when I mow. Which I have to do because 2 alpacas don't eat much and they seem to like the short grass better than the long. In fact they will graze whatever is growing in the area I blow snow off to get the GT turned around to go back up between the barns rather than longer stuff .... unless I mow it, then it is somehow tastier.

What I would like to do is something in the northern part of the area between the barn and pond, but I would have to have some sort of gate between the pond and the north fence. Can't tell from the picture but there is quite a "berm" creating the north end of the pond. Less than 5' wide along the fence that is kinda sorta flat ... and really wet in the spring. Less than mower width for a section so I have to use the string trimmer on it. Maybe I could put a gate between the fence and that old piece of deck (bad design I know) but I would have to have some way of closing off between the south end of the deck and the pond at an angle to form a chute. I do intend to replace the falling down chicken wire fence south of the pond with something structural but that can't be priority 1 for awhile, too many other things to do. So, for the moment, there is the sheep and goat fence up where I've taken out the rusty chicken wire but it is not real structural. Good thing alpacas don't challenge fences much. But I think I'd also need a gate between that and the pond otherwise they can go behind the pond. Pondering.


----------



## Mike CHS

As wise as they are to what you are going to do to them, I'm not sure my dogs would do you any good.  Even the sheep will head butt them if they decide the dogs are trying to make them go to a bad place.  Sheep are more food driven and I can usually get them to wherever I want them without the dogs.  Working the dogs is more FOR the dogs than any convenience for me.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> 2 alpacas don't eat much


Then maybe it's time to get more?


----------



## RollingAcres

Hey Bruce how did you end up cooking those garlic scapes?


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> As wise as they are to what you are going to do to them, I'm not sure my dogs would do you any good.


Bummer  Of course I don't have time to train up herding dogs anyway. 



RollingAcres said:


> Hey Bruce how did you end up cooking those garlic scapes?


Haven't yet. Last night was "Hamburger Saturday" with burger I get at the farmer's market each week. Not feeling all that well today, had DD2 and DW choose a pizza from the freezer. DD2 was quite happy to have a choice that was basically "Hawaiian". And since it doesn't involve the propane cooktop, she could cook it herself.


RollingAcres said:


> Then maybe it's time to get more?


Yeah well they would have to be FRIENDLY ones, like all the people with Alpaca YouTube videos have! AND they would have to teach these two that death is not imminent if I touch them.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I wasn't thinking of a permanent set up, but something ya could set up and take down as needed.....if ya attach 1 end with carabiners it will pivot and if they can be run into the chute....then ya could sandwich in with the panel and hold them....when ya finish just unhook the carabiners and let it loose.....storage can be as easy as clipping the 2 CPs to a stretch of fence and it is out of the way and available when needed.....even for emergencies.....


----------



## RollingAcres

How's Laddie's cut looking today? Good luck with shearing Teddy later this week.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

X2 to what @CntryBoy777 said. You could get as many cattle panels as you want to make an ideal size. Just know that these silly alpacas will be suspicious when you get the gates out and set them up.


----------



## Baymule

We use cow panels for temporary loading chutes. I love cow panels. Your alpacas are still leery of you? You'd think they would_ like_ you by now!


----------



## Bruce

Nope, they still think my main goal is to trap and torture them. Even though the only thing I did to them the first 1.5 years was to shear them last year. After trapping them in the barn for that they STILL exit the barn post haste if I go anywhere near that end of the barn outside. If I've opened the big doors at their end of the barn in the morning and come in the evening with their pellets, they go out those doors when I go through their gate to close them, then they come back in their "always open" door to get their pellets. Now of course they have again been tortured with foot trimming and one shearing. Teddy will be hard to catch.



Wehner Homestead said:


> Just know that these silly alpacas will be suspicious when you get the gates out and set them up.


Yep. There will have to be some sort of permanence to at least part of it. Might have to use a combination of permanent, movable and time. IE move the portable pieces to form the chute a few days before I plan to trap and torture them. 



RollingAcres said:


> How's Laddie's cut looking today? Good luck with shearing Teddy later this week.


Don't know, been feeling poorly most of yesterday and all day today.


----------



## Mike CHS

Our main loading pen by our chute can be set up in about 5 minutes.  The t-posts that are used are left in place but I left enough room around them initially that I could cut grass and not need much hand trimming.  I brought in a load of gravel at some point but the cattle panels are still not left on unless we are going to use the trailer to haul sheep.  By keeping it temporary we can sort animals in 3 different directions depending on what we want to do.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Don't know, been feeling poorly most of yesterday and all day today.


The "tortured" Alpacas or you? 
Hope you feel better.


----------



## Bruce

Me, they seem fine. Laddie wouldn't let me look at the top of his head when eating his pellets. If I came close enough to the gate in the run to see, he would lift his head and back up.


----------



## Baymule

When alpacas were $20,000 in the height of their popularity, they were touted as back yard pets. Ads had pictures of alpacas with smiling children playing with their "pets" and hugging them. 

Teddy and Laddie must not have seen those advertisements......


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## Bruce

No, I'm sure they didn't! Laddie was purchased by the people who gave them to us but Teddy was born at their property (Laddie is not the sire). You would THINK he would be reasonably friendly but Noooooooo.

I guess you couldn't sell an alpaca for $20K if they were shown kicking and spitting at the offense of cutting nails.


----------



## Mike CHS

I definitely will NOT be adding Alpacas to our farm.


----------



## greybeard

Chinchillas and Emu is where the real $$ is Mike...
Trust me on this...they are TNBT


----------



## Mike CHS

I know of a farm where they got some Emu when they were at some ridiculous price point. They no longer own that farm.


----------



## Baymule

Emu meat never caught on in this country. Breeding pairs sold for $20K at the height of their madness.


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## Bruce

For awhile there were people at the county fair selling emu oil products. Don't know that I've seen that in quite some time though.


----------



## Bruce

Bad news - DW spotted a small woodchuck. I did too, yesterday morning. Don't know if there is one or two. She saw "her's" just south of the little barn and it took of into the bushes there. I saw "mine" over near the pile of wood in front of the barn. I set up the Havahart blocked open last night with some chicken food inside to catch "mine" hopefully tonight. I had to take Samantha to the vet at 9 and wouldn't have had time to deal with a trapped hog. Food untouched this morning, not a good sign. It is set to trap tonight with some chicken food and some scratch.


----------



## Rammy

Use bbq. Caught a raccoon with it.


----------



## RollingAcres

Not good! Hope you catch it soon.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Bad news - DW spotted a small woodchuck. I did too, yesterday morning. Don't know if there is one or two. She saw "her's" just south of the little barn and it took of into the bushes there. I saw "mine" over near the pile of wood in front of the barn. I set up the Havahart blocked open last night with some chicken food inside to catch "mine" hopefully tonight. I had to take Samantha to the vet at 9 and wouldn't have had time to deal with a trapped hog. Food untouched this morning, not a good sign. It is set to trap tonight with some chicken food and some scratch.


I'm excited for you!
T.R.E.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Hope ya get it before it does damage and presents ya with woodchuck "math".....


----------



## Baymule

Glad we don't have those around here. I'll just keep the alligators, they stay in  the ponds, lakes and rivers, none of which I have on our place.


----------



## Bruce

Maybe they would eat the chucks! Of course they would probably eat the chickens as well.



greybeard said:


> I'm excited for you!
> T.R.E.


Because? And T.R.E. ??


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Hope ya get it before it does damage and presents ya with woodchuck "math".....


Me too. After moving about 8 last year I was hoping for at least one year off. But if these stick around I'm sure they will breed. Plus I really don't want to find more tunnels. Bout dropped a foot in one in the little barn a couple of weeks ago moving gardening stuff around. Luckily only the front of my foot was over it when it collapsed.


----------



## Bruce

Rammy said:


> Use bbq. Caught a raccoon with it.


I suspect a coon would go after bbq long before a chuck would, they are vegetarians. If they didn't tunnel and only ate the broad leaf weeds (which seem to be their favorite) I wouldn't mind them so much.


----------



## Rammy

Whats T.R.E. ?


----------



## goats&moregoats

Bruce, isn't funny how some animals remember things and hold it against you forever and some just shake it off and are loving on you two seconds later. A couple of the goats here are like oh no you trimmed my feet(gave me grain well at it) and checked me over, now I will avoid you so it doesn't happen again. Then Sonny who most likely never saw a milk stand before is all over me as soon as I sit on the stump in the pen. Good luck with your Alpaca's. Hope your feeling better.


----------



## greybeard

_"DW spotted a small woodchuck. I did too, yesterday morning. Don't know if there is one or two. She saw "her's" just south of the little barn and it took of into the bushes there. I saw "mine" over near the pile of wood in front of the barn."_

Target Rich Environment

Now you understand why I'm excited for you.


----------



## Bruce

Ah. But, sadly:

I don't know that my pellet rifle would take it down at distance. I have a hard enough time hitting the right spot in the head when the critter is in the trap. Takes several shots, single shot break barrel.
I don't think the rifle has anything that would be called accuracy. Seems to always hit low and right when I've tried to zero it at about 30' with a target inside the barn no matter how I adjust the dials on the scope. Could be the gun, could be me!
The little bastards bug out as soon as they see or hear human activity. 
Rifle existence is totally the last S in SSS. Can't keep it in the house and hope to get a shot at the varmint.

Looked out this morning and saw one over by the wood. This is bad for 2 reasons. 
1) Looks to be full grown, DW said the one she saw by the little barn was small.
2) It wasn't in the trap set not 10' from it.

Sounds like @CntryBoy777 was right, mama and a baby. And in the past, mama's had as many as 5 babies


----------



## greybeard

You don't need (or want) a scope for 30'. Take it off and use the iron sights.


----------



## Bruce

I agree but sadly there are no iron sights.


----------



## RollingAcres

Did you catch that dang thing yet?


----------



## Bruce

No!
Night 1 - chicken feed. The plastic tray on my homemade hanging feeder in the coop has beaucoup teeth marks in it from prior woodchucks raiding it daily. Never had one that didn't hit the trap in the first 2 nights, usually first night, with chicken feed. I've trapped over a dozen of these %$# things over the past few years.
Night 2 - peas. Still there.
Night 3 (last night) - melon. Still there. 

Other things to try tonight: cantaloupe (other melon was more like a honeydew), peanuts, string beans. I know the chuck is still there, I startled it yesterday in the weeds near the wood pile where the tunnel is. Didn't see it but lots of scuffling getting back to the tunnel. Of course the "wood pile" is hand hewn building timbers from when the house was rebuilt, not anything I can move to get access to that particular entrance.


----------



## RollingAcres

Sounds like you have a picky woodchuck over there!
You may need to set up a salad bar to catch 'em!


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry you got chucks again... But at least it gives you something to occupy your copious amounts of free time... Not to mention the secret forbidden pleasure of "offing" them, unbeknownst to the family members who might die of apoplexy if they but knew...  Hope you get them quickly


----------



## Bruce

RIP Samantha. She was 16 (80 in people years according to the chart on the wall at the vets), we got her at the Humane Society about 11 years ago. She had diabetes for the past 3 years but was dealing well with the twice daily glucose tests and insulin. But she really cut back eating starting some weeks ago and was getting thin and bony. Last vet check in Oct she was about 12 pounds. Took her to the vet Monday, she had barely eaten anything the prior few days, she was only about 7.5 pounds. She's not eaten anything since Monday morning and that was about 2 licks of the food. 

In short her kidneys were shutting down. She was at the vet overnight last night for treatment of what issues could be treated and if anything her numbers were worse this morning than the results from Monday. No kidney infection, that actually would have been a positive since it could be treated. Didn't make sense to let her starve to death at home over the next few weeks or spend thousands of $$ to see if there was anything else that could be done that would extend her life (with who knows what kind of quality) for a few months.


----------



## Mike CHS

They grab your heart strings don't they.


----------



## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear


----------



## Rammy

S


Bruce said:


> View attachment 50258
> RIP Samantha. She was 16 (80 in people years according to the chart on the wall at the vets), we got her at the Humane Society about 11 years ago. She had diabetes for the past 3 years but was dealing well with the twice daily glucose tests and insulin. But she really cut back eating starting some weeks ago and was getting thin and bony. Last vet check in Oct she was about 12 pounds. Took her to the vet Monday, she had barely eaten anything the prior few days, she was only about 7.5 pounds. She's not eaten anything since Monday morning and that was about 2 licks of the food.
> 
> In short her kidneys were shutting down. She was at the vet overnight last night for treatment of what issues could be treated and if anything her numbers were worse this morning than the results from Monday. No kidney infection, that actually would have been a positive since it could be treated. Didn't make sense to let her starve to death at home over the next few weeks or spend thousands of $$ to see if there was anything else that could be done that would extend her life (with who knows what kind of quality) for a few months.


 
Sorry to hear about your kitty.


----------



## Latestarter

Tough loss Bruce. Sorry. Take solace in the fact that you provided her the best, longest, fullest life she could have had.


----------



## RollingAcres

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss Bruce...


----------



## greybeard




----------



## Bruce

Thanks all. She did have a pretty decent and long life. Wasn't ever a lap cat which is why we didn't notice the weight loss sooner. But she was a "sit beside you" cat with a purr that could be heard 30' away and she usually slept between DW and me.


----------



## Bruce

On DD1's computer. My 2 month old computer has decided to have a hardware problem with the graphics card I think. Taking it in on Monday. If I am not on often or am MIA for some days, I probably haven't died.


----------



## Baymule

I am sorry about your cat. You get a lot of family history wrapped up in a pet. They intertwine themselves in our daily lives and then they aren't there anymore and we miss them so much. Your cat obviously was loved and well cared for to have such a long life.


----------



## Bruce

She was Bay. Interesting, perhaps it is a cat thing. None of the other 3 cats seem to notice. I don't think dogs work that way.

DW, DD1 and I sheared Teddy today. He fights getting on the stand but after that he is pretty calm. Not HAPPY but calm. He got sheared all the way down to his feet. A lot of it is hand shears and scissors. The shears were getting hot and not cutting well. I have to figure out if that means the tension is too high or too low. Sure would be nice if there was a shearing school somewhere around. Laddie is sporting a knee high fur boot look. His 4 feet were tied and he was still kicking when he was sheared a month ago. I'll try to get pictures tomorrow.

DD1, DD2 and I split the wood I've brought in since the first cord was finished. Not so overbearingly hot the last few days though tomorrow is supposed to be over 90° again.  Not even a full run  I notice it is a lot more work for me when I have to cut the trees and bring the 16" pieces in to be split that it was when Al dumped it in front of the barn.


----------



## RollingAcres

Really not liking these 90 degree days!


Bruce said:


> Laddie is sporting a knee high fur boot look.


Trying to picture this look on Laddie.


----------



## Bruce

May not get pictures today. It is so dang hot they are laying in their part of the barn alley. Though if I go out there, they will likely stand up and get ready to run. If I get to their gate, they are likely to head outside because they KNOW I'm going to do something awful to them. Too bad they don't understand that getting sheared only happens once a year and they have a long time before I am mean to them again.


----------



## RollingAcres

That's because Bruce is the BIG BAD WOLF!


----------



## Bruce

Too bad I can't hang out in that form near the barn in the later evening. That woodchuck would be history. Didn't try to trap it last night, no time this morning to deal with it if I got lucky. Might try tonight bit it is SUPPOSED to rain tomorrow. Don't really want to be traipsing through the waist+ high growth in the fields in the rain to move it to the woods.


----------



## Mike CHS

I don't blame you.  Do you have ticks up your way?


----------



## Bruce

We do though knock on wood I've managed to avoid them entirely. Of course now that I have to cut my own wood I'm out where the ticks might be a lot more often.


   

Saw the "wood pile" chuck last evening through the bedroom window. Couldn't have gotten it even without my "restrictions" since the window is an awning. Today, exiting the garden I saw the "little barn" chuck racing through the flock of chickens in the back yard, hightailing it for it's hole in the bushes by the little barn. Didn't look like a little chuck to me. Figured it likely had an opening in the lower part of the little barn floor since I've filled some in there in the past. Yep, nice big hole. Didn't have the camera to take a picture. Moved the trap near the hole and baited with peanuts (which they supposedly like). No idea if it is 1 chuck making use of lots of old tunnels or 2 of the little b@stards. I was really hoping for a year off from the varmints after "rehoming" about 8 of them last year.

For reference, the "wood pile" is to the right of the north end of the big barn. The garden is in the lower left corner and the little barn should be obvious from its "name".


----------



## Mike CHS

I have declared war on all of the destructive varmints.  I have found out my brave Lance is gun shy. 
Every time I see a critter outside and grab the shotgun he jumps up on the couch (where he isn't allowed) to hide behind Teresa.


----------



## Bruce

OK, so you have 2 LGD's, 2 herders and now you need 2 hunters! Get fast ones so they can catch the varmints before they get to safety.


----------



## Latestarter

Get the right hunters and fast won't matter... They'll dig the varmints out producing even larger holes and sod destruction.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Get the right hunters and fast won't matter...


you got that right. 2300fps...


----------



## Latestarter

Yup, that works extremely well also, but said option is pretty much off the table for Bruce. He has "sensitive" family members...


----------



## Bruce

Yep, and at this point even without those "restrictions" I think the only way I could take down a loose chuck would be to lie in wait in a ghilly suit. Dang things are gone soon as they hear me.

I put the trap next to the new tunnel entrance in the lower part of the little barn with some peanuts last night. This morning, nada. So I've put some cantaloupe in there with a trail. MAYBE I'll have a chuck tomorrow? Cantaloupe is supposed to be a "can't miss" bait.


----------



## Latestarter

Maybe these are distant relatives of the previous ones you removed and they're on to you?


----------



## Mike CHS

I think critters have some sort of homing call.  All hands on deck to get Bruce off his mark.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Maybe these are distant relatives of the previous ones you removed and they're on to you?


Sure seem to be on to something! Nothing in the trap at 8:15 PM.

Pictures of the barn swallows, they fledged today.
In the nest yesterday, Mom and Dad.

  

This evening when I went to close up. The fence is opposite the south barn doors, about 10'. I'm a bit worried about them. I left the door open until after dark in case they were going to go in and they were still on the fence. Doesn't seem a safe place to spend the night.


----------



## Bruce

The little swallows were all around in the same general area at 7:30 this morning, Mom and Dad came by as well so everything is fine 

Anyone wonder why I want the woodchucks out of here?
Lower part of the little barn. 2nd picture is a size 12 boot. Third picture is in the upper part.


----------



## Latestarter

Thinking a connibear type for the opening that will kill it when it exits. Can you make a "tunnel extension" out of a box of some sort so it has to go through the box to exit and have a leg trap inside the box?


----------



## Mike CHS

A wire snare at the openings should work and let it catch itself for you but they wouldn't be considered humane.


----------



## Latestarter

I'm under the impression that compassion/humane and ground hogs are not terms that Bruce would even consider using in the same sentence... On the other hand, I presume several of his family members should not learn of Bruce employing this method should he choose to do so.


----------



## Baymule

Just for you Bruce. Pig fertilized and pig planted. Look close!


----------



## Bruce

Melons! I guess you are getting enough rain there.



Latestarter said:


> I'm under the impression that compassion/humane and ground hogs are not terms that Bruce would even consider using in the same sentence... On the other hand, I presume several of his family members should not learn of Bruce employing this method should he choose to do so.


Not true @Latestarter. I want them gone but have no desire for them to suffer. After all they are just dumb creatures doing what they were designed to do. They happen to be doing it in the wrong place and it isn't like you can fence them out. 

Have thought a conibear would be about the only option if they won't go in a trap. And I *think* they are instakill(?) which is OK by me. I don't much like having to shoot them, usually multiple times, with the pellet gun. The FIRST one I did in was a 1 shot. Rear end hiked up, then still. Every one since then has been at least 3 and of course it takes a bit of time to break the barrel and put in the next pellet so the critter is suffering some. Not sure where one gets a conibear on the sly, sure won't be ordering online.

I could get one in the little barn, conveniently on the sly no less. The lower part of the barn is in bad shape, no one goes in there and the chickens can't get in either. No way to get a trap in the wood pile by the big barn since I have no idea exactly where the hole is and it is likely under a lot of big timbers anyway.


----------



## Latestarter

Way to go Bay! Those melons are doing great! They like sandy "drier" soil anyway.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said he planted watermelons and got nowhere. I tossed watermelon rinds over the fence last fall to the pigs and got quite a nic3 little patch of at least two different kinds. Maybe 3, I think there was a yellow meat type in the mix.


----------



## Latestarter

Next batch of pigs, you need to throw them some cantaloupe and honeydew


----------



## Mike CHS

Are the solid green melons Sugar Baby?


----------



## Bruce

I think she should throw some money over the fence, maybe they will plant money trees!


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> Are the solid green melons Sugar Baby?



We bought melons at the local fruit stand, I don't know what they were.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> I think she should throw some money over the fence, maybe they will plant money trees!


Then she can share with us!


----------



## RollingAcres

@Baymule wow on those watermelons! Maybe Bruce could use some of those melons to trap his woodchuck friends!


----------



## Bruce

Couldn't work any worse than everything I've tried so far.


----------



## Bruce

I set up the game camera in the little barn where the trap is. Will see if the chuck is even using that tunnel entrance/exit. If not that would explain why it has not gone in the trap after the "can't resist it" cantaloupe.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Have thought a conibear would be about the only option if they won't go in a trap. And I *think* they are instakill(?) which is OK by me.


Depends. With beaver, a 330 will usually break their neck, but If they somehow manage to just get a foot in it, you have to finish them off when you find them in the trap and they can make a mess of the wire and chain anchoring the trap down. I suspect a groundhog will be the same way. 

I don't know much about those critters, but I'm pretty dang sure the groundhog just don't give one rat's behind how much suffering you will endure if you step off in their hole and break your leg.


----------



## mystang89

greybeard said:


> but If they somehow manage to just get a foot in it, you have to finish them off when you find them in the trap and they can make a mess of the wire and chain anchoring the trap down. I suspect a groundhog will be the same way.



Yep, You're right. Can't stand the things.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Depends. With beaver, a 330 will usually break their neck, but If they somehow manage to just get a foot in it, you have to finish them off when you find them in the trap and they can make a mess of the wire and chain anchoring the trap down. I suspect a groundhog will be the same way.
> 
> I don't know much about those critters, but I'm pretty dang sure the groundhog just don't give one rat's behind how much suffering you will endure if you step off in their hole and break your leg.


That last part is certainly true. I'm sure if they think about me it is only from the aspect that I am a predator to be avoided. And they could DO SO by deciding to live elsewhere  But they aren't smart creatures.

From what I can tell a 220 is the appropriate size for a groundhog or coon.


----------



## Bruce

Rassa frassa  no good woodchucks. DW and DD1 were standing out on the deck behind the house about 7:15. I had gone down to get all the chickens in behind the front gate, snack them and the alpacas and close the door on the north end of the barn. When I came back up DW pointed and said "look". Yeah the damned WC was out by the wood pile. Now she knows about both of them. Makes it harder to off them without questions. Moving the trap out by the woodpile tonight.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, since she/they've only seen it once, they might think it was just passing through...


----------



## Bruce

Um, sure, I'll rent that thought. For a short time. We've had these things far too much for her to believe that, DD1 as well. I don't recall the exact exchange but when I got to:
"Kill it!"
DD1 wailed "Don't kill it".
I suggested throwing it at DD1 and she could keep it for a pet.

Of course you already know what I am up against. If it were legal to relocate them off property AND I could trap it, I'd put the trap in her car and tell her to drive it at least 5 miles away and release it. She can be responsible for screwing someone else with the "donation".

She probably doesn't care if I step into a tunnel and break a leg any more than the woodchuck does.


----------



## Bruce

No groundhog in the trap this morning  Will have to close the trap up. DW doesn't work on Sundays so I couldn't sneak out and deal with one if it got trapped overnight.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I'm sure if they think about me it is only from the aspect that I am a predator to be avoided. And they could DO SO by deciding to live elsewhere  But they aren't smart creatures.



Evidently, not exactly accurate.

You don't really have a woodchuck problem. You have a people problem.


----------



## Latestarter

That's sure one way to look at it GB...


----------



## farmerjan

Let the ground hogs (wood chucks)  start costing you a small fortune in machinery repairs like we have with broken spindles on a front tractor wheel.... I mean like let the family members  pay for some of the "expenses of being HUMANE"  ... Really, if you don't think it would bother her for you to have a broken leg then .....  sorry,  that's being totally disrespectful of you and totally out of touch with real life.  
We don't go out of our way to just kill them, but they are fair game in the hayfields and pasture fields where us or an animal can get injured from a tunnel collapsing.  They are some of the most destructive animals there are and there is no rehoming here;  I will not wish that problem on another soul, even my ex.....


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Evidently, not exactly accurate.
> 
> You don't really have a woodchuck problem. You have a people problem.


You got that right.

Woodchucks love cantaloupe ... BS. This b@stard/biotch sat there and took a freaking bath, never looked at the cantaloupe outside the trap let alone inside. What I didn't see was it coming up out of the hole. it must have come in through one of the "animal" doors on the east side of the little barn, they are kind of broken up.  The only other images were of a mouse around 3:30 AM



Yes, you CAN fit both an adult White Rock AND an adult Ancona in a trap that will hold a coon or woodchuck 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



 

My fault, I didn't think to spring the trap when the girls were let out about 1 PM. Fortunately they got trapped only about 6 minutes before I had rounded all the other chickens up and given them scratch then went looking for the missing two. First picture is Yuki, second is Yue. Must have been quite a surprise for Yue when Yuki hit the trigger. That door must have slapped her tail pretty well.

BTW, I'm not putting a lot of stock in the camera's thermometer, it wasn't anywhere near 119°, maybe 85°.


----------



## goatgurl

well I guess that the good news is that yuki and yue were safe from the well groomed ground hog.  another day perhaps


----------



## Baymule

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around such bleeding hearts, that they would let a destructive animal run amok on the property. Nope. Nada. Not happening here. But I realize that I am a bit different...…..always have been and I wouldn't have me any other way. My own sister wont' eat a meal at my house for fear that I might serve her a "poor little animal" that I raised, fed and cared for, made sure that the animal had a good life and got to act out it's natural behaviors and named it. But she sure will go to the grocery store or a restaurant and eat some mass produced animal that had nowhere near as good of a life as one of mine. Go figure. 

Ok, off my rant now. I just don't get people like that. You are not alone, I have one of those in my family too, but at least there is a 3 hour drive between us and we don't live in the same house. Sadly, my friend , you are severely outnumbered. BYH is your safe place.


----------



## goatgurl

here @Baymule, let me help you down off that high horse.  I know just how you feel tho.  I work with my butcher shop, local farmers and hunters for hunger to donate to a food ministry and they had a whole 300# hog donated because the wife couldn't stand to eat something she had seen.  just seen for crying out loud.  people are so disconnected from their food sources.  they think that the stuff at Walmart just falls over onto those styrofoam trays, no fuss, no muss.  my ex mother-in-law wouldn't eat at my house because I might feed her something with goat milk or meat in it.  suited me just fine, but let me tell you she could empty a gallon ice cream freezer made with fresh goats milk.  people!   ok, my butt  looks kinda big up here on this high horse, think i'll get down now myself.


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## greybeard

Some of you are beginning to sound a mite like 'trigger happy cowboys/cowgirls' and it's  beginnin to worry ol greybeard.


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## Latestarter




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## Bruce

All stock sweet feed.


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> All stock sweet feed.


For your little friend?


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## Bruce

Yup. Put it out by the wood pile after I got all the birds in the back about 6:30 and snacked them. Went to close up at 8:15, noticed the trap had tripped.


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## Latestarter

But was it a successful trapping?


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## Bruce

yes. Trap went back into the little barn with more sweet feed, nothing so far. Still not sure if there are two or just one that gets around. It isn't really very far between where the "two" have been seen, only about 140'. Probably an entire city of tunnels between the 2 locations.


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## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> But was it a successful trapping?





Bruce said:


> yes.



Yay!


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## Baymule

Shhhhhhh……..…… we won't tell...….


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## Bruce

Thanks 

Spent 3 hours pulling cattails from the pond behind the barn this morning. And yes they ARE cattails. They have seed pods this year. Don't know if that is based on the age of the plants or they somehow know when there is no water so the seeds will land on dirt/mud/muck and can germinate. Like they need another way to propagate!  

Wore me out and I maybe got 1/3 of them. Possible only because the pond is going dry from lack of rain. Blister on my big toe, not comfy. Penny wise and pound foolish on those rain boots.

Need to go to the woods to cut some trees. Will have my tools and a nearly empty (and used to be empty) feed bag with me.


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## Bruce

Well cr@p. It was raining but stopped. Radar looks like it will be coming back stronger soon. Wait for WEEKS to get a bit of rain and now that I have a NEED to head out to the woods, it rains. Guess I'll have to walk out, skip the cutting.

I am NOT complaining about rain, I'm not!!! Just bad timing.


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> I am NOT complaining about rain, I'm not!!! Just bad timing.


I hear ya Bruce! Bad timing for sure! I posted in a different thread earlier about wet hay. Talk about bad timing! DH bartered some ammo for round bales of hay a couple of months ago. They decided to bring the hay to us late last night and we couldn't find any tarp at the house so couldn't cover them. Woke up this morning and it was down pouring and it's been raining off and on today. So hay is now wet. Looks like it's going to rain this whole week off and on.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Thanks
> 
> Spent 3 hours pulling cattails from the pond behind the barn this morning. And yes they ARE cattails. They have seed pods this year. Don't know if that is based on the age of the plants or they somehow know when there is no water so the seeds will land on dirt/mud/muck and can germinate. Like they need another way to propagate!
> 
> Wore me out and I maybe got 1/3 of them. Possible only because the pond is going dry from lack of rain. Blister on my big toe, not comfy. Penny wise and pound foolish on those rain boots.
> 
> Need to go to the woods to cut some trees. Will have my tools and a nearly empty (and used to be empty) feed bag with me.


I have a few cattails at the pond edge but the cows keep them eat down to a nub.


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## Bruce

Anyone know how deep water needs to be to keep cattails from growing? I'd love to dredge the muck, er I mean pond, but getting it deep enough that there wouldn't be any cattails except maybe at the edge or a small island in the middle would be a good thing, possibly mandatory for the work involved.


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## CntryBoy777

When I read about your trip to the woods....the tune of the "Ants go Marching 1 by 1" came into my head....or, "whistle while ya work"...........I have seen others wading in water waist deep among various reeds looking for catfish, turtles, and fishing.


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## Bruce

Chose to connect the dump cart to the tractor and head out. Not walking that far even in the better boots with a large hunk of skin off my toe. I did pick up some already cut wood that didn't fit in the cart last time and did some surveying of what to cut next. I should really find my flagging tape.


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## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> When I read about your trip to the woods....the tune of the "Ants go Marching 1 by 1" came into my head....or, "whistle while ya work"...........I have seen others wading in water waist deep among various reeds looking for catfish, turtles, and fishing.


Dang it @CntryBoy777 now I have "Ants go marching 1 by 1" song stuck in my head!


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## greybeard

24" or more for several weeks will kill them here.
Or
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=230296


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## Bruce

I'm not likely going to be dumping weed killer of any sort in the pond but if it only has to be 24" deep to kill the cattails, at least there is hope if I ever get some equipment. Would be a problem if it had to be 6' deep or something. 

I just read something that said cutting them off a few inches below the waterline will slowly kill them. I guess that would work if one could walk in the water where they are growing without sinking into the muck and being stuck until *I* die.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya can always use a flat bottom boat and cut them....after they are cut they will float and can be pushed to the bank or use a rake to reach out from the bank to bring em back to shore....


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## Bruce

I don't think a flat bottom boat will float in the muck. Been so dry here the pond is nearly empty, frogs and fish (whatever may still be alive) are surviving (maybe) in a very small and not very deep area. If I had my computer I could post a picture of the last time it was this dry a few years ago. There were no cattails then, I wonder if that is when the cattail seeds took hold. 

At this point none of the cattails are in water, just a foot or more of boot sucking muck. I might take a shot at reaching the plants at the (normally shallower) part, those that I didn't already dig out. But I have this huge hole on the side of my big toe from when I dug them out a couple of days ago. Walking is no fun, not putting those boots back on EVER. Maybe someone that sips Goodwill has feet the proper size and shape for them.

I could dig out some muck if I had the equipment, too much to even attempt to shovel out by hand.


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## CntryBoy777

If ya have a sheet of plywood or some wide boards, ya could use them to stand on atop the muck and not get stuck....


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## Bruce

Oh, true! I'd have to pull some nails from the old plywood, but that isn't too hard.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I'm not likely going to be dumping weed killer of any sort in the pond but if it only has to be 24" deep to kill the cattails, at least there is hope if I ever get some equipment. Would be a problem if it had to be 6' deep or something.
> 
> I just read something that said cutting them off a few inches below the waterline will slowly kill them. I guess that would work if one could walk in the water where they are growing without sinking into the muck and being stuck until *I* die.



Well then, kinda sounds like you're stuck with 'em and will have to learn to live with them or even like 'em. 
(maybe you could try snowshoes for walking in the mud?)


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## Bruce

I have snowshoes but I suspect they would sink down into the muck and get stuck. I like @CntryBoy777's plywood idea.


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## Bruce

Well cr@p. After many days of the trap being set down in the little barn and untripped, I figured I was "chuck free". Then a little after 8 tonight when I went down to close the animals in the lower part, I saw a chuck racing into the drive bay of the big barn. The trap has been moved out by the big barn. Might be taking a walk in the morning again.

Update on the tree cutting. 

I went after that tree behind the apple. Using non stretch rope, chain and my come-along, I pulled on the tree about 10' up. When I cut the tree the base leapt about 10' toward the tree it was tied to and the top dropped over the apple a bit to the right of "center" (several small trunks all close together). It took out one of the trunks partway up. So I guess I would say it was a partial success. If I had been thinking I would have waited on that tree until after the apples were ready, instead some have been lost, poor deer. Speaking of deer, while I was out there just inside the woods I heard walking noise. Have had people from the neighborhood up the road that runs west up our property line wandering around in our woods. Clearly I need to get a surveyor to mark so I can put signs every 100' or whatever. Anyway I was looking, listening then my eyes caught a doe about 100' away. Kinda cool, no pictures but it did happen.

Seems lots of the trees I cut hang up before they fall, I've trapped the saw under the upper part several times. Instead of the tree falling toward the hinge, and even when it is naturally leaning that direction, the upper part of the tree doesn't fall when the saw cuts through.   Had a 9" tree yesterday right next to a bigger tree so I decided to drop it and daylight other trees near it. Didn't fall toward the hinge AT ALL and trapped the saw. I had to use the attach the come-along to the bigger tree and lift the "felled" tree off the saw, then pull from 2 other trees in succession before it came down. Talk about widow makers! And it didn't even have all that many upper branches.

I also keep finding remnants of an old barbed wire fence (bob wire to some of you ). Sometimes embedded in a tree low down suggesting the fence has been "gone" for some long time. Sometimes it is buried in the ground with ends sticking out. Came across a few old metal posts with wire hang off them yesterday. 

Saw has gone to the shop. The chain kept getting tight then loosening when I'd done nothing to change the tension yesterday then bound up and killed the motor. I took the cover off to try and loosen the chain and discovered the washer and E clip that should have been on the sprocket (and were earlier in the day!) were missing. Time for a bit more than a tune up.


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## Latestarter

Sorry the tree cutting didn't go exactly as planned. Glad there wasn't too much damage done. Hope your saw makes it through surgery and returns good as new.


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## RollingAcres

Sorry your chuck friend is back.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure hope ya get the trees to cooperate better for ya and ya get that blasted chuck!!....did ya have any success with the plywood to cut the cattails?


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## mystang89

How much do surveyoys cost out there? I was going to have mine surveyed when I moved it here but it was than I could afford. Around 1000$ + was the range here


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> and E clip that should have been on the sprocket (and were earlier in the day!) were missing


We call that a Jesus clip around here, because when you try to remove it, the thing goes flyin off into the tall grass somewhere and ya say "Oh Jesus, I'll never find that thing!"


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## Bruce

I didn't spend much time looking for the clip and washer. There is a nice large gap under the sprocket when the saw is held in the cutting position. Whenever/where ever they came loose is where they dropped into the forest floor. I might have found them IF I knew EXACTLY when they dropped and didn't move from that spot though that would be a needle in a haystack event anyway. 

Saw needs (besides those 2 things) a new (to me) clutch. I wonder if that happens when the trees keep trapping the saw bar and chain. Gotta figure out how to keep that from happening!! I know it isn't good for the saw regardless. Apparently they have some "gently used" saws they scavange parts from so instead of $100 for the parts I need it will be $40.

Don't know what surveyors cost. The land is surveyed and I know where some of the pins are. There SHOULD be one near the road sign at the SE corner but the guy we bought from said he pounded it down (damn fool idiot) so he could mow over it. But that one isn't a real problem. The problem is in the South line where it jogs NW. There is another pin in a vernal pool behind a tree and then the one at the SW corner of the property. Too many trees and ups and downs to have any hope of finding the property line by sight. 



CntryBoy777 said:


> did ya have any success with the plywood to cut the cattails?


Didn't try. I gave up THINKING I need a real tractor and decided I DO need a real tractor. Too many things I need/want to do that I just can't physically do without a lot more horsepower. Y'all can  me right now but since I'm not real knowledgable about tractors I'm going new with the 7 year warranty instead of used and hope I can figure out what isn't working right on a used one after I buy it not knowing what isn't working right. Couldn't find any on Craig's List anyway. 35 HP Mahindra with bucket and backhoe.


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## CntryBoy777

I don't know much about tractors either, but ya might as well have ya some Fun while ya still can....ya only live once, so no need to wait.....tho, it has been my experience that many that buy a first tractor, always wishes they'd got the next size up for either hp or equipment ability......can't wait to see ya working with it either way......on the cutting....it is relief cuts, and not sure why they aren't falling for ya without seeing the hinge....maybe not enough angle on the wedge cuts.....suppose to be about a third the way thru trunk....


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## Latestarter

Congrats on the new tractor! (now I'm really jealous ) Waiting for pics of you and your new toy... ummm I mean TOOL! yeah, that's what I meant...   A learning curve, but I'm sure you're gonna wonder why you didn't get it sooner. I know that's the way I generally feel when I finally get something I should have gotten years earlier.


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## RollingAcres

We'll be waiting patiently right here for pics of your new tractor!


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## Pastor Dave

Trying to find the optimum blend of HP, compactability, action as in FEL or PTO, fuel, etc, etc. Does it have a belly mower or get a pull behind? Will it fit under a roof or do I need to build on a lean to or overhang? So many options to consider


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## Mike CHS

Congratulations and I don't blame you for buying new.  I had an old Massey that I bought used that wound up blowing an engine. I had it mechanic checked but that didn't keep the motor together.  My 32 HP Kubota has been perfect for me since I needed something small enough to maneuver in some our our tight spaces but enough power to do what I need.  I'm not cutting grass in high gear on my hills but it does everything I need it to do. 

I'll have to dig out some pictures of the 1000 pound slabs of stone I pushed down the hill to a dry pond.  Note I said pushed and not picked up.


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## Bruce

Yeah I'm probably only going about 1/4 on the 70° wedge, I'll start higher and go farther next time, thanks for the tip. I guess I was afraid it might get weak and start to go on me doing the bottom of the wedge but seeing as how the darn things are still standing when I've gone most of the way through on the 3rd cut I guess I'm worrying unnecessarily.

The whole "not big enough" thing. Yep every time I read anything about a person asking for opinions on buying a given tractor on tractorbynet that came up. Thus I went for the 35 HP for the 4+ acres I need to mow, it has 25 HP at the PTO rather than 19 on the 26 HP version and can handle a 6' mower, the 26 HP only a 5'. I figure the extra 1' per pass adds up. The backhoe will dig to 94", the 26 HP is 86", not much difference but maybe that little bit extra will come in handy. The bigger difference is the 2,900 pound digging force vs 2,440. Nearly 500 extra pounds though both are WAY WAY WAY more than I can do with a shovel  Plus the one on the 26 HP only swings 145° instead of 180°.

I'm going out now to take pictures of the nearly dry pond before I start messing with it. I ALWAYS forget the "before" pictures. I think I have 2 areas that have a shallow enough slope from the surrounding "non pond" areas that I can drive in but I need to get the string trimmer out there and make sure that is the case. Really hate to get it stuck right off! In the meantime, here is a picture of what the frogs in the pond fear most, thinking that a solar panel is the prime sitting spot. The pond is off to the right. Probably a good view from up there. Taken from the back deck of the house about 200' away.


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## Bruce

OK here we have some before pictures. 
Pond from the SE corner. One planned entry is from the upper left in the first picture. Second picture is moving north, look, cattails!
   

Which would be here


The other potential entrance is from the NE side pond, here


This is from down at the pond from the potential NE entrance


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## Bruce

After string trimming. Turns out it was a good plan, found some rocks. Here, at my place!! Can you imagine??
NE entrance, second picture is south from that path, third is up at the cattails where there is a big enough piece of ledge I don't think I should try to cross it.
  

Looking right (north) from the path, the tracks are from frogs and herons.


From the edge of the mud flat in the previous picture. Can't see them here but lots of very small dead fish in what is left of the very shallow water. I think I need to try and get here and dig as deep as I can as far out as I can so what little water toward the north that is too shallow for fish can drain to a new "deep spot". I will be using @CntryBoy777's plywood suggestion to give the outriggers on the backhoe something to push down on. I stuck a stick in at the edge, the muck was about a foot deep. I expect the backhoe can dig deeper.


----------



## Bruce

And the south entrance


Look rocks! Guess I'll be using the backhoe right off


On the way down the path. I think I'll need to widen it with the bucket because it gets a bit high on the left side. MAYBE not too steep but better safe than sorry!




And at the "deep" end. Really squishy at the edge, not sure how much I can reach from there.


And, for your "enjoyment", the heron frogging at the north end.


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## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> My 32 HP Kubota has been perfect for me since I needed something small enough to maneuver in some our our tight spaces but enough power to do what I need. I'm not cutting grass in high gear on my hills but it does everything I need it to do.


HP sells tractors but torque does the work and completes jobs.
Always remember:
_Torque is the measure in foot-pounds (ft.-lbs.) of the amount of work an engine can perform. Horsepower is the measure of how quickly that work can be done_

It's the transmission gearing and final drive gearing that enables a tractor to be a tractor..

*torque = hp × 5,252 ÷ rpm*

The venerable old 1950  Ford 8n for instance, had only 25hp at the drawbar but 2800ft lbs of torque. 

You can probably find all the specs of yours at
http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/tractor-brands/mahindra/mahindra-tractors.html


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## Bruce

With that calculation, and using the engine HP of 34.5 and RPM of 2376 (spec sheet for PTO 540 RPM) I get a torque value of 76.26.


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## Latestarter

GB... how 2800 ft pounds from a 25 hp engine? Working backwards, that would be at an rpm of ~46.89... or idle?


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## mystang89

I have a Mahindra. It's my first tractor and I was a bit Leary about it at first since it's not American made but originated in France however all that worry got thrown out the window after the beating I've put that through. Great tractor!


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## mystang89

I have a Mahindra. It's my first tractor and I was a bit Leary about it at first since it's not American made but originated in France however all that worry got thrown out the window after the beating I've put that through. Great tractor!


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## Bruce

France? The 1500 series is a Japanese product from Mitsubishi. There is a sticker on the tractor that says "Proudly assembled in Pennsylvania" 

Glad to hear it has done well for you! What model/year do you have?


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## CntryBoy777

It sure would help this "scrambled brain" that I have.....if there were at least a pic or 2....so, I could see ya working and having fun doing some projects there.....


----------



## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> I'm going new with the 7 year warranty instead of used and hope I can figure out what isn't working right on a used one after I buy it not knowing what isn't working right





Bruce said:


> with bucket and backhoe



GOOD for you!   I get a lot of use from my backhoe besides digging.  Work up a fence puller and you can move it up, down, back, forth, pull sideways with the backhoe.   Takes practice but not much.
I have cruise on mine.    You probably do, also.  Nice when mowing open fields.  I've used mine to pull those trees out of/off of another.   Have several of those wide flat, long tiedowns, ones like truckers use.

NEW - absolutely good decision.  Warranty and I am not wanting to do any heavy repairs...or breakdown with no backup.  Waited a long time and love my tractor!   Mine is a little smaller and has always done everything I needed.

ENJOY that new ride.


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## goatgurl

I have tractor envy.  I could do so much if I had a tractor around here.


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## Bruce

You want selfies? I don't think I can do that. I guess I could take a picture of the tractor in a working "pose".

Tractor gets delivered Friday. He didn't say what time, guess I'll just be ready. Likely not before 9 I would guess. Saw should be fixed soon as well. But I'm going to start on the pond. With my luck, if I put it off a couple of days to cut more trees, we'll get a monsoon and the pond will fill, then I can't really dig it out much. Only a bit at the edge which wouldn't gain much for the fish and frogs.

Called yesterday on the flail with hydraulic shift. I need a valve on the back for it but those are $$ and I have read on TractorByNet that some people steal from the loader valves. Since I can't imagine I'd ever need to tilt the bucket while mowing, I'm going for a couple of "extension hoses". Thought MAYBE they would have an idea how long the hoses need to be. Not surprised that he didn't. But glad I called. He looked at the tractor specs and really advised me against the 6' model. 25 PTO HP isn't nearly close enough to the 30 their literature said the bigger one needs. He sounds like he really knew his product. So even though the tractor sales guy said "No problem!", I'm going with the 5' model. But there is a small problem, they are sold out for the year. There are some coming in Sept but all have deposits on them. So I am the waiting list in case one of those people changes their mind. If not it will be spring before I get one though it could be earlier, just of no value then.


----------



## mystang89

Sorry, said France, meant India. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahindra_Tractors

I have a 4500 DI. I "think" it was produced somewhere around a 2000 or so.

Wow, that's a long waiting list. I sure hope someone changes there mind.


----------



## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> I have cruise on mine.  You probably do, also.


I do on the garden tractor (tractor in name only  ). Didn't notice that feature on the real tractor. But I found this video 



 that compares the 1538 (1500 series made by Mitsubishi Japan which is 35% owned by Mahindra) to the 2538 (2500 series made by TYM - Korea). They have the same engine but I guess otherwise do not share design features. The local "leftover" 1538 was sold a few days before I started looking, if it weren't I could have gotten that instead of the 1533 for a couple thousand less. Oh well. Anyway, apparently the 1533 does have cruise.

I looked at the leftover 2538 since the specs between the 1500 and 2500 series are very close. I could have gotten the 2538 for even less (MSRP is less to start with) but my height (6' 2") got in the way. As is noted in the video, the seat in the 2500 is lower and that meant that my knees were up, lacking thigh support. I've never been able to do the "catcher's squat" and get back up, poor knee design I guess. And that hasn't gotten better with age. If I were to sit for even half an hour with my knees locked up, and they would have to be to keep pressing on the accelerator, I would have a hard time walking afterward. I actually have more legroom from that perspective on my garden tractor. The higher seat in the 1500 gives me more extension and support.

Secondarily, the seat in the 1500 rotates backward to use the backhoe. That can't happen with the lower seat on the 2500 so its backhoe has its own small, low back, seat. Again a leg room problem for me in the backhoe "operator's station". And it also means extra length behind the tractor. BUT, if one were to be digging a trench AND had an assistant, it would be quite convenient to have a separate seat for the backhoe. One digs, the other moves the tractor. 

There are other things I liked better on the 1533 but those were the 2 main reasons I chose the 1533 over the 2538. A shorter person may not have those issues and can save some money if there aren't other things that make the 2538 less desirable for them.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Leg room is one of my main concerns, too.....being 6'2" it is rather difficult, as ya have stated to work very long if your chin is bouncing off your knee.....sounds like ya made the better choice.....


----------



## greybeard

We call that flywheel torque, as the formula is strictly for engine or motor output.
_Torque is the measure in foot-pounds (ft.-lbs.) of the amount of work an engine can perform. Horsepower is the measure of how quickly that work can be done

It's the transmission gearing and final drive gearing that enables a tractor to be a tractor.._
You aren't taking into consideration the transmission+final drive gearing, and, the size of the wheel/tire assy has to also be considered as part of the gearing. 
You will have to know the gear ratios for each gear, as well as the ring and pinion size in the final drive and the wheel/tire diameter to accurately calculate torque.
It's why drawbar torque and PTO torque are different from each other and both are different from engine torque. The gearing multiplies engine torque.

We tend to think of torque in relation to what we have always thought of and referenced in automobiles, but they do it completely different/opposite. Automobile eng designers start with torque and develop HP from it, while tractor designers start with hp and develop torque from that.

as one person put it.here's an interesting bit of trivia:
_below 5252 rpm any engine's torque number will always be higher than its horsepower number, and above 5252 rpm any engine's horsepower number will always be higher than its torque number. At 5252 rpm the horsepower and torque numbers will be exactly the same._
Again, flywheel torque, not torque at the wheels. 
examples...


----------



## Bruce

Tractor arrived. Messed about figuring some stuff out, like yeah I need to remove the top link to turn the seat around to use the backhoe. The rest of the 3PT parts were just strapped in. I put them all on a shelf in the barn workshop. That would be the open door in the last picture. I put the boom for the auger in there as well. Auger is too heavy to move easily. The sales guy said some people just use it to drill a hole and leave it standing.

Lacking depth perception, I can see (not trying to be funny!) that I will need to come up with some strategies for attaching/detaching equipment. Am I close enough yet? No, now? No, now? TOO CLOSE! The loader and forks are skid steer attach so at least when I am in the right place I don't then have to figure out how to line up pin holes. I can get close then wrangle the attachment so it is parallel to the plate. Maybe I need a hood mounted camera with a display back at the operator's station


----------



## CntryBoy777

Wow Bruce!!!....that looks really good sitting on your property there..........I know ya will sure have fun and enjoy figuring out all the amazing things ya can use it for....hopefully, it'll even come in handy for some of the snow removal too. My Dad has used cinder blocks or bricks to mark the tire spots for his attachments.....when the tires hit them he was where he needed to be to attach whatever to it.....it may just work for you too.....


----------



## RollingAcres

Nice! Congrats on the new tractor Bruce!
If you run out of things to use with your new tractor, I'm not that far away from you!


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Tractor arrived. Messed about figuring some stuff out, like yeah I need to remove the top link to turn the seat around to use the backhoe. The rest of the 3PT parts were just strapped in. I put them all on a shelf in the barn workshop. That would be the open door in the last picture. I put the boom for the auger in there as well. Auger is too heavy to move easily. The sales guy said some people just use it to drill a hole and leave it standing.
> 
> Lacking depth perception, I can see (not trying to be funny!) that I will need to come up with some strategies for attaching/detaching equipment. Am I close enough yet? No, now? No, now? TOO CLOSE! The loader and forks are skid steer attach so at least when I am in the right place I don't then have to figure out how to line up pin holes. I can get close then wrangle the attachment so it is parallel to the plate. Maybe I need a hood mounted camera with a display back at the operator's station
> View attachment 50946 View attachment 50947 View attachment 50948 View attachment 50949 View attachment 50950 View attachment 50951


A few things...
1. When you get your implements all situated where you want them, make it a habit to off load each from your 3pt at the same place each time..and do it on level ground. The first time you get ready to  disconnect from one, lay a treated board right behind your rear tires..2x4 or even better, a 4x4. Next time you get ready to hook up to it, just back up till you feel the tires touch the board and you're exactly at the point you need to be to hook up to the implement. 
2. Before you use anything with a gearbox, check the lube oil in the box!!. They generally come from factory and from dealership with no lube oil in the gearbox. (most gearboxes are vented and the oil would all leak out in shipping because of the way they are positioned and handled during shipment) This is especially true with mowers and post hole augers. 
3. Your auger should always be stored standing up, but I would not reccomend drilling a hole in the ground to stand it in. The drilling edges would be constantly in soil, usually wet and the cutting edges will very quickly rust and be dull. Make or buy an auger stand. (I back up to a heavy fence post (cross tie) and have a chain stapled to the cross tie. I back up until the gearbox of the digger contacts the post, lock the brakes on the tractor and lower the auger until it contacts a cement pavestone. I then get off the tractor, wrap the chain around the auger right below the gearbox, hook the chain hook tightly and then take the pins out of the lift arms and center connection, as well as disconnecting the drive shaft.)
4. If you have more than one size auger for your digger, the 1st time you swap them out, before you put the other auger bit on, apply a liberal amt of grease or antiseize to the shaft protruding from the gearbox and inside the bore of the auger itself. Then do the same thing to the auger bit you just removed. (you will thank me for this tip one day)
5. On your backhoe...When you are done, make sure the stabilizer rams are completely retracted, and if you are keeping the tractor outside, extend the boom, dipper and bucket until those rams are retracted inside their cylinders as well. In other words, the whole thing will be stretched out in a line on the ground. This keeps the rams' immersed in an oil bath inside the cylinders and keeps the chrome plating on the rams from rusting and pitting, which leads to leaks and an expensive repair. 
IF, you ever remove the backhoe from the tractor, and store it for any length of time, you won't be able to do that, as the stabilizers and boom/dipper/bucket assy form a tripod for the thing to be freestanding. Once you get it off the tractor and stable and freestanding, smear some cheap grease on any exposed chrome of each ram.


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## Mike CHS

Congratulations on your new machine.


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## Bruce

Thanks for the tips @greybeard and @CntryBoy777 
OK, so the tractor, when parked other than for short periods will look like a snake with a long tail  I do plan to clean up one bent of the barn to keep the tractor inside. But step 1 for that is renting a Uhaul truck and moving metal to the recycler. Then I have to clean up all the stuff in that bent. The deconstruction/construction guys were throwing EVERYTHING in the dumpster and I told them to stop, so they started throwing everything in the barn. Most of it is usable, I haven't bought a 2x4 since the reconstruction. That bent has a gravel floor.

What I would LIKE to do is build a wood/equipment shed. Now that I have the tractor and forks, I want to build "cages" for the firewood. Maybe 4x4x4 which would be a half a run. I measured the landing where we bring the wood into the enclosed porch (not the primary porch door we use to get in the house) and it is big enough I can fit a pallet on it. So my PLAN is to stick a cage of wood on the landing, remove the glass from the storm door. Then the wood will be accessible from the porch without having to pick it up from the pile, put it in a transport then carry it up the steps and stack in the porch. This should be a time and back saver for me. Of course I'll need some sort of weather proofing around the wood and a roof of some sort. Don't need it getting all packed in with snow.


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## Bruce

OK, made my snake tail when I went out and snacked the animals and made sure all the chickens were in the back.

First effort with the tractor:
Implemented @CntryBoy777's suggestion using my loader implement. Good thing I remembered to ask for chain hooks.  

Afraid I am too late to save any fish, looks like there is hardly any water in the pond at all. I didn't think there was a big deep part and looks like that is correct.


Second "task" was messing with the loader to take down some"high ground" just outside the gate on the north fence line. It is years of horse stall shavings and poop from before we bought the place. We've pulled some out over the years for garden compost and it grows really great grass where it is "stored". Sorry, no true before picture. The grass is a royal PITA, it rolls up in wads that are not easily picked up in the loader. I ended up pushing a lot of it up the hill. Not done yet and it is really a job for the rake (and was starting partway through!!) but I didn't want to mess around with taking the backhoe off since I really want to dig the pond. It is a lot less hill than before and I will rake at some future time.


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## CntryBoy777

Thanks!!!.....that really helps out a bunch....now ya are "styling" up there...........and I have severe tractor envy!!


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## Bruce

Well if you ever get a tractor, don't give Gabbie rides in the FEL!


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## mystang89

That looks real nice! I'm jealous of that backhoe attachment!


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Afraid I am too late to save any fish, looks like there is hardly any water in the pond at all. I didn't think there was a big deep part and looks like that is correct.


I predict this will not end well....


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## Bruce

I'm not planning to put the tractor on the plywood, only the backhoe supports. Tractor stays on dry ground. I'll reach as far as I can with the bucket and pull out the muck, moving it to the side. I'll have to move it again to get it out of the "full pond" level. The muck is like gray-green marshmallow fluff.

Still thinking it will end poorly? And if so, why. I'd rather not lose my new tractor!


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## greybeard

To use the backhoe, your stabilizers carry most of the weight the rear tires usually do. When you start digging, the force tries to pull the stabilizers backwards. Those feet on the end of the stabilizers are made to be in dirt, not on a smooth surface like plywood sheeting.
one or both of the following will happen.
1. You'll find yourself pulled off the plywood and down will go the stabilizer feet into the mud..
2. The forces the bucket and dipper exert on the tractor will pull the plywood (and your tractor) off into the muck, even with the front bucket tilted down with it's cutting edge in the dirt.

Or 3...
Looking at that picture close, I bet what may look solid ground with the grass on it is only a crust a few inches thick, with muck below it. You're already going to be sitting at an angle due to the slope of the ground leading to the water's edge......all you'll need is a few little pulls with that bucket and you can find yourself in muck. The muck is soft and easy digging, but force is force.
Good luck with it.


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## Mike CHS

It's amazing how much force is put on the tractor by the bucket.  I have gotten my tractor mired in mud so bad a couple of times that even the 4 wheel drive wasn't enough to get me out.  The bucket pulled me right out sort of like I think GB is talking about.  I have never tried to do something like that so I'm no help.


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## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> It's amazing how much force is put on the tractor by the bucket.


For that 1538B backhoe it's: (these are ftlbs)
Bucket force: 2900 lbs [1315 kg] 
Dipperstick force: 1800 lbs


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## Bruce

OK then! I'll test the "dry land" first. Yes, that whole lower part where I would take the tractor is under water when the pond is full, not sure how deep the muck is before hitting bottom of the pond when it was originally made who knows how many decades ago. Given how mucky that stuff is I suspect if I dig deep closer to "shore", the stuff farther out will slowly slide into the low spot and over a few years I can continue to dig the "new deep part" out.

But is "bucket force" MAX it can do, or "is always the case"? Sure wouldn't want to put 2,900 pounds out there. I was figuring on gentle removal, not dig deep and hard.


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## greybeard

MAX. It's sometimes referred to as breakout force. 

Get a small diameter rod like a piece of rebar, walk down where you think the ground is solid and see how far and how easy the rod goes down. If it starts hard, then gets real easy, there's muck below.


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## Bruce

Will do, thanks. The big unknown here is how much muck is on top of the ledge and how far does the ledge go and how fast does it drop off. If you look back at the picture where I said I wouldn't want to take the tractor past a rock, it isn't a loose rock. All the stuff on the left is ledge. I figure that is why the pond was made where it is, at least the SE side is pure sedimentary ledge. That could extend dropping gradually a good distance to the north or it could drop off or just end. My GUESS is that it continues since I hit ledge 2' down when I put the north fence line in, it is ~20' from the inside of the pond.

Next questions:

The manual says not to use the bucket to side swipe waste back into a trench. I've seen excavators do this all the time. Is that because the entire machine above the tracks is rotating on a heavy pivot rather than the backhoe's arm rotating on a relatively weak pivot on the back of the tractor?
It also says not to lift things with the bucket which doesn't make sense to me, I would be lifting dirt when I dig and there is a chain hook on the bucket. Does it really mean don't lift heavy things? Like don't try to pull the engine block out of a vehicle?
AND it says not to pull things with the backhoe. Can't pull something of not great weight toward the tractor?


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Next questions:
> 1. The manual says not to use the bucket to side swipe waste back into a trench. I've seen excavators do this all the time. Is that because the entire machine above the tracks is rotating on a heavy pivot rather than the backhoe's arm rotating on a relatively weak pivot on the back of the tractor?


It has more to do with the swiping action causing the front end to try to swing around or the stress it puts on the stabilizer legs than the pivot strength. It's real easy to unintentionally lower the boom to much, taking weigh off the stabilizer and you'll have the whole backend of the tractor try to move in opposite direction  you are trying to swipe dirt. You'll discover tho, that there isn't a lot of power produced from those swing cylinders. They are usually fairly small diameter pistons. 



> 2. It also says not to lift things with the bucket which doesn't make sense to me, I would be lifting dirt when I dig and there is a chain hook on the bucket. Does it really mean don't lift heavy things? Like don't try to pull the engine block out of a vehicle?



Yep, that's what it means. A generic CYA safety statement...from the manufacturer.   They want you to lift stuff only INSIDE the bucket because a chain suspended load can get to swinging side to side  and possibly turn you over, or start swinging fore and aft and cause damage to the front of the tractor. 

I have 4 different hooks on mine..front and back bucket.
Everyone I know, has picked suspended loads up with either bucket.....of course almost everyone I know that does that, eventually has a little wreck of some sort with it..including me. (new radiators ain't cheap I can tell ya)


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## Bruce

OK I did as Sensei @greybeard instructed.

Everywhere I shoved the rebar in I hit solid rock eventually. About 18" down when standing on the plywood and reaching out toward the water as far as I dared so as to not become part of the pond muck. It was about 6" deep along the 4' edge of the plywood on the south (near in the pictures) side. The farther I got from the muck, meaning uphill in the direction the tractor is in the picture, the less I had to go to hit rock. I stuck the rod in lots of places in each area to make sure I wasn't just hitting a single rock. When I went to the other side of the pond (west side) and to the southern end where the minimal bit of water is and reached out, I could go down 2.5' from a squishy bank that held MY weight.


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## Baymule

Really nice tractor. I am happy for you that you got it. Greybeard is giving good advice, he ought to know. Just remember, safety, safety, safety.


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## Bruce

So I SHOULDN'T use the 2 beer holders while I'm working?  

Actually it is nice to have 2 holders for the insulated water mug things. Now I have to figure out a "cargo" area. Sort of hard to get out to the woods to cut trees with no place to put the equipment. I don't think trying to balance my dump cart on the front forks would work out well. And even if it did, couldn't put it up there for the trip back with logs on the forks.


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## Latestarter

Really happy for you Bruce! Nice rig. I'm sure you're gonna have all kinds of things that need doing with it in the near term. I'm a little surprised that you got the industrial type tires you did vice agricultural tires... I guess they'll work OK for you. Like others, I'm suffering serious tractor envy here...


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> So I SHOULDN'T use the 2 beer holders while I'm working?
> 
> .



Sure..What's the worst that can happen?
(my neighbor had a few 2 many...)


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## Bruce

I think ag would have been too aggressive. I don't intend to do any field plowing and I THINK ag tires are better at gripping under those conditions. I told the sales guy what I was planning to use the tractor for and he spec'ed the R4s, loaded. Hopefully I got the right thing. Of course now you have me worried about getting anywhere near the pond!


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## Latestarter

Well, you can always pull it out with your Prius... or ask the old fella down the way to pull you out with his tractor...


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## Bruce

Both are options! I did have to use the Prius to back the Garden Tractor away from the pond some time ago (which you are probably referencing). Sure hope the real tractor will back up hills better than the GT. Not real sure the Prius will pull a 3100 pound tractor. Unless I get ag tires for the Prius of course


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## greybeard

Well, IF there is a hard rock bottom as you indicate with your probing, it might not be as risky as it first looked. You may sink down a little, but not be mired because it has a hard bottom below the crap.
Of course, I don't know how the pond was built either. If they blasted rock out to get it deeper, that might be problematic.

Oh...
If your rear wheels ever start spinning when backing uphill, reach back and extend the dipperstick and bucket out..it puts more weight on the rear tires.


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## mystang89

If you do end up getting stuck and there's no other way to get the tractor out then you can use the front loader to free yourself. Just tilt the FEL to where the blade of the bucket is pointed at the ground, lower it down until the tractor is starting to be picked up with it, then rotate the FEL the rest of the way towards you as you apply the gas with the tractor in 1st low gear. Apply the emergency break, rince and repeat.


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## Bruce

Thanks for the tips guys. Whereas I was originally going to start in the area where I have the plywood down since I figured I could make a deeper hole for the fish, I don't think any are alive anymore. So I'm going to start in the SW corner where I basically have a "road" if I cut into the west side a bit with the left side of the bucket. Practice on the shallow end from a very gentle slope. 

As to how the pond was built, the deeper (north) end follows the contour of the land, it slopes down both west and north. It starts rising on the west to more visible ledge about 100' from that side of the pond but continues down going north. The berm that makes those sides of the pond are somewhat steep on the outside. NOT thinking of running the tractor up those backward hoping to get the bucket a couple of feet into the pond (horizontally), MAYBE. My GUESS is they dug dirt from what is the "deeper" part and made the berm. No idea if there is any rock or other structural "stuff" in the berms. Whether they went all the way down to ledge everywhere in the pond I have no idea. What I do know is there is decades of dirt/silt/whatever on the bottom now.


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## Latestarter

OK... just a thought... What about making a break in the pond berm and draining it, then doing the bottom work, rebuild the berm, let the fall rains and winter snow melt re-fill it for spring?   Or maybe dig a trench around the side of the berm to drain it so the berm integrity isn't disturbed... Then you could bury a large sized drain pipe to the center of the deep end with a valve so next time you won't have to dig to drain it?


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## greybeard

I didn't know he intentionally drained it...thought it was from lack of rain.


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## Latestarter

No... I was suggesting the possibility of doing so...


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## greybeard

Ok.
There is more to installing a drain or overflow pipe than digging a trench, dropping in the pipe and back filling it.  If it were a square or rectangle shaped pipe, it's relatively easy but round pipes present unique backfill problems due the curvature on the bottom 1/2 of the pipe and as a result, they often fail to seal and leak. It's difficult to get dirt to even go back under the curvature, much less pack down against the pipe.
Most overflow or control pipes don't use an anti seep collar, but they should. I don't have one on the 24" culvert pipe I showed a couple months ago, but I should have used one on it as well. It's just a piece of steel that encircles and  sticks out from the pipe 360° and digs into the soil in the bottom of the trench.  You may still have a void nest to the bottom curvature, but the soil particles quickly gets compacted next to the seep collar and seals off.
The top part shows a drain/overflow pipe without an anti seep collar, then one with an anti seep collar from a 'pond end' view.
The bottom part shows a pipe with anti seep collar as it would be seen from on top of the dam.




You can see a anti seep collar installed here:
http://www.soilmovers.com/central-texas-fishing-lake-infrastructure/




Most farm ponds silt, some more than others. Ponds with lots of deciduous trees or even pine trees in it's water shed are bad about filling in due to the leaves settling and turning to silt, and of course, soil gets washed in no matter what. Mowing the watershed contributes significantly as well, as the first big rain washes the cuttings into the pond body. Everything sinks to the bottom, as well as other biological crap and slowly builds up down there. The process for most farm ponds takes 20-30 years to really begin to show up tho.


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## Bruce

The anti seep collar is to keep the fill from washing out?

This pond doesn't even have an overflow pipe but I don't think I'm up to remedying that, afraid the berm wouldn't hold when I rebuild it since I have no idea what I'm doing. The natural overflow area is in the NW corner of the pond which I can't get to with the tractor with respect to dredging, the deeper part I'm making is on the NE corner and side. I guess if I worked up to it the next time there is a drought, I could dig out the berm where the overflow happens and try to dig out the pond. But it would have to be really dry to get the tractor in and not stuck in the muck.

I started on the SW side, dug out what I could reach from the side as I went north but the ground got high on the west side, wasn't comfortable running the tractor on a side slope. I had to go back through the waste and it is soft, glad I didn't get stuck. I'm not able to make a flat "road" with the bucket since the tractor is parallel to the hill. Tried some with the backhoe which kinda worked but it is mushy soft where I had gone before and the front wheels lost traction in the muck (R4s vs R1s?). I thought better of continuing but might go back after it has a chance to dry out more. I have pictures of that work. First the rocks that were in the path.
    

Dug out to where you can see I stopped at the cattails. Probably should have started backwards and moved the waste as I went, about trapped myself going forward since I had the hoe angled toward the pond for max reach and had to dump on my path. Live and learn. The last picture shows when I quit working on that area, you can see it is pretty chewed up. Not obvious but there is a ridge between the "path" and where I dug the pond. The PLAN was that area was going to be stable enough to make the "road" but not the case.

  

After I stopped there I went to where the plywood was shown before. Have to get pictures tomorrow. I got a bit nervous with being too "uphill" with the tractor per @greybeard's concerns so I angled it with only the left side backhoe brace on the more southerly piece of plywood. That meant I ended up dumping the waste mostly on the other piece. Being sludgy it slumped, hopefully whatever water is in it will seep back to the pond without too much of the "dirt/clay/mud". I dug a hole, hard to see exactly how deep where given all the muck. The part toward the center of the pond broke through and water came in to fill my hole way before I was expecting or wanting it to. I saw a lot of dead small fish on the current but also a few clinging to life in the shallow water and fighting the "current". Hopefully they will get to the deeper spot and the silt will settle so they can breath. 

I'm noticing I might have a problem, I can't connect the north east and south west sides with the tractor so in a drought I would end up with 2 deeper areas and if one started to go dry, the fish couldn't get to the other one.  Might have to get out the manual shovel. That stuff is heavy 

Good thing I quit when I did. When I got back in the tractor's operator station I noticed the fuel symbol blinking. That means close to 7.7 gallons were used for 10+ hours on the engine. Over 6.5 of that was today and mostly at 2,000 RPM. Engine had 1.2 hours on it when the tractor arrived. Put my 5 gallons of diesel in, have to get another 5 tomorrow. 

I have to say having the fill cap right in the middle of the engine cowl and a foot or so from the dash is not real convenient for use with 5 gallon cans. I guess they expect people to have a large tank and electric pump? I have ordered a 5 gallon can that has a short hose connected near the bottom and a trigger on top to let the fuel out. As noted by a commenter on Amazon, you have to release the trigger before the tank is full since there is fuel in the hose that still has to drain. I saw it first at Aubuchon Hardware but they wanted $61 which seemed a LOT to pay for a 5 gallon can. $44 on Amazon.


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## mystang89

You should have just picked those tiny pebbles up with you hands instead of using that backhoe  lol

I agree about the location of the gas cap. Holding a 5 gal container gets old. I normally try to situate the can in my knee and hold it steady for the 5 minutes it takes to empty it. Fortunately I don't go through gas that often.


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## Baymule

We started out with a 5 gallon plastic can. I found a 500 gallon tank  on Craigslist and it is a whole lot easier. We have a diesel truck, Kawasaki mule and the tractor. 

I wouldn't break the dam. If you need the rest of the water out, what about renting a pump? If you are trying to save the fish, could you put them in a water tank with something to aerate the water?


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## Mike CHS

I have an oversized funnel and can rest the fuel can on top of the cowling so it pours fairly easy.


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## Bruce

I'll take pictures in the morning. There is hardly any water left. WAY worse than the last drought. But what is under the water is slick soggy airy muck. I did hit ledge everywhere I dug. Not hard to know it is there when you are curling the bucket and the rear of the tractor starts to lift. I'm learning the down, curl, up a bit while curling, pulling in, up a bit while pulling in (because of the ledge) thing. Still have to think about the controls even after 6 hours of using them today.

I do have an unused stock tank. Not sure how I could catch the fish though. Didn't see them this evening and unless they wanted to be right next to the plywood, couldn't reach them anyway.


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## greybeard

I used to use a bulk tank, but no longer have a use for that much fuel. I  or my wife just pick the can up and pour it in nowadays. It's 35lbs, which far less than a sack of feed. My oldest sis is 74. She still pours diesel into her Kubota from a 5 gal can, but like everyone else around here, got rid of that stupid flow release thingie they come with nowadays.
One of these I guess tho the suction/discharge hose looks pretty hokie.
https://www.amazon.com/Fill-Rite-FR1614-Diesel-Transfer-Hoses/dp/B00132AM9I
(note tho, that it weighs 23 lbs....without the 5 gal can of fuel)


A barrel pump with a nozzle on the end or diesel caddy are the other options.


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## Pastor Dave

Mike CHS said:


> I have an oversized funnel and can rest the fuel can on top of the cowling so it pours fairly easy.



Yes, but didn't you say you were a power lifting body builder not too long back?


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## mystang89

greybeard said:


> like everyone else around here, got rid of that stupid flow release thingie they come with nowadays.



They can be handy especially when mowing grass and having to fill multiple tanks but I'm about to do the same thing and get rid of it on my diesel can. Just takes to long and I never fill the whole tank up anyway.


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## Mike CHS

Pastor Dave said:


> Yes, but didn't you say you were a power lifting body builder not too long back?



I didn't say I am, I said I was. And a lot of years ago.


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## Bruce

OK, pictures of the east side of the pond.
The closer part is where I dug in the NE "corner" where the plywood is. As you can see there isn't much water anywhere else. It is a little hard to see because the water that is there is reflecting the grass/weeds on the bank. Lots of dead or dying fish.



And over by the cattails. I was able to move some of that mud up and out this morning but not going real well. So mucky it slides back down and I can't reach any farther up.


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## Latestarter

Sounds like you're going to need to do this a bite at a time... remove some then bucket load it away to a drop spot elsewhere so it can't slide back down into where you removed it from. This looks like one of those jobs that looked like it was gonna be a breeze, only to find out it's gonna be a lot more work than originally thought.


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## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> This looks like one of those jobs that looked like it was gonna be a breeze, only to find out it's gonna be a lot more work than originally thought.


I was just thinking that. Makes it so much more fun right Bruce?!


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## Bruce

I can't really do that @Latestarter, no place to make a pile I can then pick up other than one 16" bucket at a time. I'm already working with 2 wheels on the "hard" and 2 in muck.


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## Latestarter

Maybe it's time to go buy (rent) a dozer?  Maybe you can hire a dozer to push it all out to where you can get at it to move it where you want? Since it's sitting on ledge, I'd have to guess a tracked machine wouldn't have any issues.


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## Baymule

That looks like hard hot work. Just for you, have a piece of our pig planted watermelon.


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## Bruce

Gee thanks Bay! 

I don't know that a dozer would work well since they have to push stuff, not lift it. Works when making a new pond in relatively dry ground. I can see one begging for water wings when it got into the deeper muck. I really have no idea how deep the oozing muck is away from the "shoreline" in the north end.


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## greybeard

If you think you have muck now, put a dozer in it....it'll either find bottom or find there isn't one.


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## Bruce

Yep, I'm finding that out with the tractor. As you noted when you sent me out with my piece of rebar, what seems pretty firm gets awful squishy after the tractor has gone over it a few times. And once that grass cover breaks up, big change in what is under the tires.


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## Bruce

Progress. I figured that if there is ledge under the area where I could reach from the side with the backhoe, I could make a "road" and drive the tractor down there. Then I could use the bucket to dig. Got lots dug out including the cattails. It rained overnight so now there is water where I was digging. We NEED the rain, but I sure don't need it in the pond.

As a reminder the first picture shows the south west side where I had dug from the edge with the backhoe. That is the view from the upper left of the second picture. The next 2 are what the pond looks like today after using the bucket and the overnight rain. Lots of muck/clay up on the left which is what I was going to move today so I could attempt to dig more out.


 

The next picture shows the east side where I had dug with the backhoe (center left in the 2nd picture above). Kind of frustrating because there is a lot of stair step ledge where I had to dump the crud then move the tractor and try to move it more up the hill. Except there is no way to clean the stuff off the ledge. So much if it may end up back in the pond unless I get out the shovel.


This picture shows the extent of where I dug. Notice there are no cattails other than a clump that is up at the right top of the pool of lovely brown water. The cattails preferred to fall off the bucket rather than stay in it.


OK Joe, here is where you don't need to be jealous. Today I started moving the piles, beginning with the one right in front in the last picture. The bucket was cavitating when I was lifting it and wouldn't curl and lift at the same time which it was doing yesterday. I figure that means hydraulic issues so I checked the dipstick. It wasn't showing any fluid  I had noticed some trails on the rocks in the parking area but figured it was just water. So off I go to TSC to get 5 gallons of fluid and a BIG funnel. I ended up putting all of it in and I think I'm still not seeing it on the dipstick. Lucky anything was running at all! I looked at all the fittings and the only place I saw shiny wet was under the quick connects for the backhoe which I didn't even use yesterday. I disconnected them and cleaned up the oil then reconnected and started the engine. Fluid started dripping then nearly flowing from the lower disconnect   So I shut it off and called the dealer who sent a service guy over, turns out he was called as he was driving home from work. Long story short, it needs a female quick connect. He said there is an o-ring inside and it isn't just any old "pick it up at the hardware store" item. If he doesn't have the connector at the shop he will steal one off another tractor and be back tomorrow.


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## Mike CHS

I'm glad you found the leak.


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## RollingAcres

Looks like you've been busy!


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## Baymule

The good news is that it is new, under warranty and will be fixed pronto. Frustrating, it has been dry so long, now that you are working on the pond, it rains.


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## Latestarter

Sorry to hear it Bruce... But as was said, it's under warranty. You should ask to have them pay for the hyd fluid as well. Good to see that the weather cooperates with you up there like it does for us down here   Hope the rig gets fixed early enough tomorrow that you can get back to it. Looks like you're having quite a bit of fun with your new tool.


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## Bruce

OK, so he came back in the morning and replaced the coupler. And noticed that the upper bolt that holds the backhoe together was backed out, no nut or washer on the inside. I don't know when he came back, probably on his way home from work. I looked at it a couple of times during the day and noticed it was fixed when I went to get the birds back behind the gate about 6 PM. Would have been nice if he'd rung the bell to let me know he did it.

So today I worked on the pond some more. I was able to create a "road", bumpy as it is, from the SW corner to the NE corner. Made it so I could run a loop south to north and dump the crude outside the north side of the pond instead of "temporarily" storing it like I did Wednesday and will have to move it again. Didn't make sense to get a bucket full and back all the way out the south end of the pond, drive to the north side then return.  Pictures

"Road", looking north into the pond and a closer shot of where I had been digging. Note the sludge has moved into the space. Note the tire track in the second picture. There is raised ledge to the right of it that I have to go around. And the "road" as it exits to the NE
  
Camera at the approximate level of the pond when full


Closeup of the recently dug area


The sludge pile outside the north end of the pond. Lovely sticky clay. Which has oozed out to the north.
 

And just barely visible, @CntryBoy777's "plywood implement" at work. I have to clear the rock on the left. If not for the plywood I wouldn't be able to have my "road".


So far everywhere I have dug has had ledge underneath. Easy to check, push the bucket down and lift the front of the tractor off the ground


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## CntryBoy777

I was wondering if some square bales of hay would assist ya in holding back some of that sludge and keep it from flowing back into your way....I see them do a lot of that around here when they are doing roadwork...it should retard the sludge, but allow the water to perculate thru the hay....sometimes they will drive a couple of stakes into it to aid in keeping the bale in place....ya could use the cheap stuff for it and hopefully keep ya from having to travel to dump each bucket..........your problems with the tractor brought to mind that old Johnny Cash song...."One Piece at a Time".....


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## Latestarter

Looks like you're making some real progress there! I hope you get some serious fall rain and winter snow for melt to fill it this coming spring. Looks like if the drought will hold for you for just a bit more, you'll have a pretty \deep pond once again when it fills. Might even be able to put some real fish in there like cats or small mouth bass or both.


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## Mini Horses

I am happy you are finding out how great a loaded tractor can be.    Plus, "new" got the needed repairs quickly with no more expense -- this could have been used and your $$.   I truly weighed the cost of new and used but because this equipment is often not well managed, the possible cost to me just made it a no-brainer.  Besides, most do not come with backhoe as used.  That was the case with one exceptional unit I checked into -- none to fit it.

Well keep those projects moving along!  Looks great.


----------



## greybeard

That pile of sediment/muck should be some very rich soil for gardening once the water dries out of it some.  It may smell pretty 'ripe' for awhile tho.


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## Bruce

Definitely smells a bit ripe now. Not sure how good it would be in the garden with all that clay in it though.


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## CntryBoy777

That is all we have in the garden here...clay....we are always adding compost and manure to it....fish emulsion is a high quality fertilizer....


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## Latestarter

The best loam is a combination of clay, sand, and silt... I'd have to agree that it would make for some very rich planting soil, even if you did have to add some other soil to get the mix right.


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## RollingAcres




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## Bruce

The pond seems to be lots of clay and silt. I'd have to go get a ton of sand. OK, I'd have to have it delivered, I can't carry a ton of sand in my Prius 

Progress after yesterday

 

The left side started to calve and brought some water down from the "upper pond". With some tadpoles. DW and DD1 were screaming for me to stop. Said there were tadpoles going down. So I pushed some "stuff" to stem the flow. Put me in the doghouse since apparently I was driving over the tadpoles. DW made a small dam on the left side of the now "lower pond" and we rescued some tadpoles that were flopping on the mud. We added some water to make it a bit deeper. Didn't see any fish flowing, but then I've not seen any fish dead or alive since I made the "upper pond". Notice in the pictures above how far the calved area on the left is from the "upper pond"

After today. I'm working on making a channel from the lower pond to the upper so it will drain down and I can work on the north end. Note how SMALL the distance is from the "upper pond", no calving Takes a LONG time one 16" bucket at a time.
 

The tractor after a day playing in the muck


And an hour later after washing the crud off. Not worried about splatters but I figure all the moving parts should not be locked in dried up clay.


When the guy dropped the tractor off I asked about 1st service interval. He said 50 hours, it will take you a long time to get there.  There are now 40 hours on the engine.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya sure seem to be Moving right along with that project!!....if they are so worried about the tadpoles, then they ought to tend to them.....sounds like the Best thing to do.....that sounds like a good plan....on getting to the north end to work....Great Job!!.....


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Put me in the doghouse since apparently I was driving over the tadpoles.


 tadpoles killer!


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## Latestarter

Bruce said:


> DW and DD1 were screaming for me to stop. Said there were tadpoles going down. So I pushed some "stuff" to stem the flow. Put me in the doghouse since apparently I was driving over the tadpoles.


 Seriously? Are you kidding? Are THEY kidding? How can the two of them function in the world of reality? How many insects do they kill driving? Are they completely out of their minds? Or is it a selective thing about what can be allowed to die? They do realize that the herons and egrets feast on those tadpoles, right? as do coons, and the fish, and anything else that can swallow them...

Bruce, I really feel for you and can't imagine how you manage to stay sane and calm dealing with your situation... I think I would become "cidal"... either sui or homi   And I believe they are deliberately driving you towards one or the other... Sorry man... I'd laugh but it's so far beyond funny...   You must have the patience/heart of a saint.

Aside from the issues that are preventing progress, you seem to be making some. I would recommend taking the banks down some as well so they aren't so vertical. That will help slow their collapse into the pond once it starts filling again. If you have some $$ to spare, you could order a couple truck loads of gravel and cover those banks to help with erosion as well.





If you dig the current puddle down as deep as you can so the water can run down into it to "save the tadpoles", you could then clean out the deep end working back toward that puddle and let it drain back into the deep end while you finish up digging out the in-between area.


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## Rammy

Im with @Latestarter on this. Tadpoles? And ditto on the bugs. Dude, run.......


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Seriously? Are you kidding? Are THEY kidding? How can the two of them function in the world of reality? How many insects do they kill driving? Are they completely out of their minds? Or is it a selective thing about what can be allowed to die? They do realize that the herons and egrets feast on those tadpoles, right? as do coons, and the fish, and anything else that can swallow them...


Of course I'm not kidding you Joe! See, if the heron eats them (and it has been hanging out at the buffet table for weeks) that is NATURAL. But if WE kill them, or let them die if we can save them, that isn't.  I guess because we aren't eating them. Of course that doesn't explain not raising animals that we would eat. The insects on the grill are unavoidable accidents. Spiders and ants in the house are carried outside and released (not by me!). Even if it is -20°F and they will die. I can not explain them.

The low spot you mentioned is already as low as it can get, I was scraping along the rock bottom when I made that. I can angle down the vertical area you mentioned. Not easy to see but the "top" of that cliff is below the waterline when the pond is full. Hmmm, actually I can't, not with the tractor since there is now a "pond" there and it is the low spot. Guess I'll have to use a shovel from above.

After working today.
From the south and then from the north, no more "upper pond". It was where the depression is in the second picture. And yes a lot of that water came from the hose. I don't think any fish are alive though DW thinks she found and saved a small one.
 


After tomorrow I'll have to take a few hours off digging and do the first service. I'm sure that will take a couple of hours. Need to change the oil (6.7 quarts) and filter, fuel main and pre filters, hydrostatic and hydraulic filters, front axle lubricant (4.9 quarts). Transmission oil (8.7 gallons) doesn't need to be done until 100 hours. How do people get rid of nearly 9 gallons of hydraulic fluid??


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## Mike CHS

I get rid of my fluids by having a mechanic come out and do the services.


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## Bruce

Ah, I see. They charge $110/hr for tractor service. Not sure how much they charge to come out, or if they even do that. Didn't think to ask. I think they charge $30 one way to transport the tractor to them and return it.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> . How do people get rid of nearly 9 gallons of hydraulic fluid??


I take it down to the county trash compactor/waste oil collection point. No charge...a private processor comes by and collects it when the county's tank gets full and pays the county a little for it...probably pennies on the gallon.
(Unless I'm burning brush piles and need something to get it burning good and hot, then I use it for that purpose.)

Right now, I have about 150 gal of waste diesel, bad engine oil and hyd oil from last year when I had to replace the oil on everything here after the flood. I suspect about 1/2 of it is actually water, since most of the oil floated out of the engines and transmissions.


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## Bruce

My town is not part of the waste district. I think it may be the only town in the entire state that isn't part of their local WD. The town does have "hazardous waste" days, April, July  & September. I need containers. I went last month with an old scanner in its original box, waste oil and oily paper towels and filters. They took the oil at one place then sent me to the next. The guy took the scanner out of the box and put it in a trailer for recycling. Dumped everything else in the compactor truck. So much for mandatory recycling of the cardboard. I don't know if maybe I can give them full containers and get them returned empty.


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## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> Ah, I see. They charge $110/hr for tractor service. Not sure how much they charge to come out, or if they even do that. Didn't think to ask. I think they charge $30 one way to transport the tractor to them and return it.



I could do it myself but Cosmo does a complete service with all fluids for around $235 last year.  He is an authorized Kubota mechanic so it covers me for the warranty.


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## Bruce

Hmmm that is something to consider.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> My town is not part of the waste district. I think it may be the only town in the entire state that isn't part of their local WD. The town does have "hazardous waste" days, April, July  & September. I need containers. I went last month with an old scanner in its original box, waste oil and oily paper towels and filters. They took the oil at one place then sent me to the next. The guy took the scanner out of the box and put it in a trailer for recycling. Dumped everything else in the compactor truck. So much for mandatory recycling of the cardboard. I don't know if maybe I can give them full containers and get them returned empty.


Scoop up all those dang tadpoles and take them too.


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## Bruce

OK, called the dealer about the 50 hours service. They don't have a service truck. Since the machine is new he would waive the pickup and drop off fees. For them to do it would cost  $600. The parts will cost $300. Guess I'm picking up parts, get oil at Walleyworld or somewhere.


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## greybeard

Make sure, that each component (oil and filters) meets or exceeds the manufacturer's specs..especially the hyd fluid.. I've seen failure to do so used as a reason not to honor warranties when there was no real evidence the 3rd party hyd fluid had any thing to do with the warranty claim...


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## CntryBoy777

I would use the recommended brands and keep the receipt, in fact I would buy it from the dealer....even tho it may cost a bit more. As far as disposal of used fluids, I would ask the tractor guy for suggestions.....here, it is a small town and many places will take old oil and pour it in their tank to be picked-up....even WallyWorld takes stuff here....but the hydro fluid will be a bit different.....


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> OK, called the dealer about the 50 hours service. They don't have a service truck. Since the machine is new he would waive the pickup and drop off fees. For them to do it would cost  $600. The parts will cost $300. Guess I'm picking up parts, get oil at Walleyworld or somewhere.


So you have to get the parts and oil then bring them to the dealer for them to do the service on your tractor? Since they are doing the service at the dealer you don't have to worry about disposing of the used oil right?


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## Latestarter

Wow... tractor ownership gets pretty expensive huh? There must be "how to" video's on YouTube and since you're handy, could save a bunch doing the services yourself. The sales places I've looked at down here, several offer to pick up and return the tractor for service, for free. Some even offer the first service free.

I was thinking... on that bank area, since you've already scraped the area where the standing water is down to ledge, you should be able to drive fwd into it and scoop the bank with the bucket to get it better sloped. The added weight from the scooped material + 4x4 drive, and being on rock ledge should allow you to back right back out of there. Of course you can't do it when any family member is present as you might "accidentally" run over some creature in the puddle  ...  Probably be a lot easier to see what you're doing that way vice backed down the bank and reaching with the back hoe.   Either way, what you've done so far is looking really good! Maybe some of that dug out material could be added along the top of the berm to increase the height/pond depth even more?

In my earlier post was going to ask if they wanted you to pay for water (using house water/hose) to add to the puddle. Guess you confirmed that was the case.  If I lived closer, I'd insist on kidnapping you every now and again and forcing you to join me at some bar a few towns away for a few beers or dinner and a few drinks.


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## greybeard

RollingAcres said:


> So you have to get the parts and oil then bring them to the dealer for them to do the service on your tractor? ?


I don't think that's what he had in mind but, it is Vt...maybe they do it different there. 
I don't know a single restaurant here that I can take my steak and tater into and get them to cook it for me......


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## Baymule

Tadpoles.  @Latestarter said it all.


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## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> So you have to get the parts and oil then bring them to the dealer for them to do the service on your tractor? Since they are doing the service at the dealer you don't have to worry about disposing of the used oil right?


No, I bought the oil and hydraulic fluid at Wallyworld. both good quality. The Mahindra manual had suggestions on the motor oil and Wally had several of them. I got the Mobil Devlac 15W-40. The chart shows 15W-40 is good from -4°F to 86°F, same for 10W-30. The hydraulic fluid bucket listed many major brands of tractors. I bought the 4 filters at the dealer. Somewhat cheaper than he said on the phone, they were about $185 total. He said their records would show I had purchased the filters and that is good enough for the warranty. He didn't seem at all concerned that I would be doing it myself. My guess is most people do the basic service stuff themselves. He also didn't ask if I needed to buy oil or hydraulic fluid so I ASSUME most get it elsewhere.

But yeah Joe, that cost is something I didn't think about up front! Fortunately they don't need to be replaced again for another 200 hours for the fuel filter, 300-350 hours for the others. That should take a little time. I still have 4 hours to run the tractor before I change the filters and the front axle fluid. The manual seems to have adequate directions but we shall see.

The guy at the service desk said no one has ever put 50 hours on their new tractor in such a short time. I guess no one else was trying to recover a drying up and perennially shallow pond before the rains DO come . He wanted to know where I was last year when the were looking for someone to put hours a demo tractor. I asked why they needed lots of hours put on a demo. Turns out it was model that hadn't yet been tested and approved for sale in the states. Well, that wouldn't have been me, the pond didn't dry up last year. I won't be putting hours on so fast when I'm moving wood or mowing the fields.

I can't do anything with the tractor on top of the "rim" of the pond. Not wide nor flat enough. And you want me to drive through the small amount of water that is there now? That wouldn't go over well.

Nearly got myself stuck today, front end sliding down slope in the muck on the left side of the "road" out the north end. Remembrances of the garden tractor doing the same thing on ANY side slope in the snow. Guess it isn't just the relatively massive weight of the blower that makes that happen. Thought for sure I was going to have to call Al. But I managed to pull one of my "@CntryBoy777 Tractor Supports ®" to the rear of the tractor with the backhoe and back the tractor onto it. Still needed to use the hoe to get leverage to get the front end back on more solid footing. Maybe I need to test my post hole auger and plant a 6" post 4' deep above the pond so I have something to anchor to if I need to pull myself out  I am wondering how much of the remaining pond I can clear. There is solid ground under the muck, at least near "shore" but the slope may be too much.


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## goatgurl

you are sure making progress mucking out the pond.  just be sure you don't bury it in the mud so that it slowly sinks into the sunset.  be hard to explain.


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## Bruce

I'm working hard at that @goatgurl!


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I still have 4 hours to run the tractor before I change the filters and the front axle fluid.


If it's like a Kubota, allow some time for the front axles, both in the draining and filling. It's a bit of a slow process...takes awhile for the bearing areas to drain out. When doing a complete service, I got in the habit of starting there at the front and allowed the axle housings to drain while I did all the rest of the machine. 
(get and keep a small sample of each of the old fluids when they first start draining. Label them and put them up for future use if you have a warranty problem..if the front axle lube oil is silver colored, you need to let your salesman know, as well as the service dept where you bought it. I'd do it by email or text as well as voice and keep a copy of the text.)

Regarding all that mud......it's important to keep the area where the front axle enters the wheel hubs clean. There is a seal there, but you don't want it constantly covered in caked on dry mud. Same with where the shaft from the transmission goes into the front differential housing...common areas for foreign debris to enter.


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## Bruce

Thanks for the advice. Those axle drain holes do look pretty small. I have 2 "regular" oil drain pans with big screw cap tops and one open one. I can use the two on the front axel and the other for the filters. Of course I have no idea at this point if there is an easy way to get a pan under each of the 4.


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## Bruce

Current progress

  
Sadly, I can't move the piles with the FEL so I have to carry them one 16" backhoe bucket at a time up around the greenery at the NE "corner" of the pond. You can see that one of my @CntryBoy777's Tractor Supports ® is broken. I was going to claim he owes me a replacement since they have a lifetime warranty but then I read the fine print:
Lifetime warranty void if the product is used to support a tractor weighing more than 50 pounds including the operator.

I now have 50.1 hours on the engine. It is supposed to rain tomorrow. Unless I cover the tractor with a tarp and drag a work light in there, the 50 hour maintenance will have to wait. Hopefully it won't rain enough for the "pond" to overflow to the area I dug today, it is lower. You can imagine the problems that would cause.

I've seen a woodchuck on occasion, not often. But I noticed some digging activity in the upper part of the little barn so I put the trap in there with some sweet feed. Nothing for several days though the feed mostly disappeared, I'm guessing rat. Anyway, tonight I thought I should look in and make sure I hadn't trapped a rabbit (which has happened in the past). Lo and behold, there is a pissed off chuck in the trap. I'll deal with it tomorrow morning.


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## Mike CHS

Congratulations on catching that critter.


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## CntryBoy777

After all that work....ya Deserve a day off/rest, anyway....sure hope ya don't get much and it set ya back very much.......I know ya are Happy to "relocate" the rascal.....


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## RollingAcres

Looks like nice progress over there with the pond area. And yay on catching that chuck!


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## Baymule

YAY! On catching Chuckie! Now off with his head....or something like that. The pond is looking good, keep it up.


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## Bruce

It rained a fair bit last night. That nice hole I dug is now half filled with sludge that slumped into it. Some of it came from the "lower pond". Yeah, the one with the tadpoles in it.


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## Baymule

We’ll thats good for the tadpoles.


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## CntryBoy777

Hope it doesn't set ya back very much.....and about those tadpoles....they grow really fast so they will be jumping out of the water and hopping away, before too long..........hope ya was able to "Chuckle" today.....


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## Bruce

I changed the engine oil and filter and the front axle fluid yesterday. Whoever put the engine oil drain bolts in sort of forgot to check the required torque before cranking them in. I had to use the air wrench to get them out. Then set my torque wrench to 28 ft/lbs to put them back in. 

Gotta say the Mahindra manual pretty well sucks. 

It shows the location of the engine oil fill port. No, not a screw cap, a funky looking thing with a hose attached. And no instructions. I found a short video on it from "Mahindra Dan". You CAREFULLY pry it up with a flat screwdriver. OK, easy enough once you know. The plug has 2 good size O rings on it. Goes in hard, REALLY HARD. Don't know why they can't have a screw cap.
It shows a drain bolt in the bottom of each front hub, the bleed screws on the back side and the fill port on top. PITA draining those things per the manual since there is no way to get anything under the drains. After I had done it I was looking at the TractorByNet site in the Mahindra owners forum and see people draining from the front center of the beam on similar models. Today I look and yeah it sure appears there is a drain plug there!
Supposed to change the main fuel filter. Regular spin on but it has a screw fitting in the bottom where the water sensor goes. Instructions say to unplug the electrical connection, then take the water level sensor out by turning counter clockwise. POOR PLAN! All the fuel in the filter then drains out. Certainly something that should be done AFTER the filter is off the engine. Only I can't possibly get a grip on it to unscrew it and I can't get my metal band filter wrench on it because of metal parts too close to the bottom of the filter. 
And lastly (so far) the "pre" fuel filter, the one the guy at the dealer said was one and the same as the main filter.  Only it isn't. Good thing he didn't sell me the insert. That filter is below the level of the fuel tank. Found some videos about this. One guy followed the manual's direction and in the video of his 50 hours service the fuel tank was draining all over the ground while he took the canister off and got the new filter inserted and the canister put back on. He added some text to the video that said not to do it that way. No chit! Another guy showed how he put in a shut off in the fuel line from the tank. I'll be doing that before I change that filter! Poor design. And WHY put the water sensor in the 2nd filter? That would mean that the "pre" filter would be full of water before it gets to the main filter. Someone suggested putting in an inline water separator after the shutoff. Sounds like a good idea, not sure how easy it is to find a small one of those. Would surely be easier to drain of any water that you can see in the bowl rather than waiting for the warning light on the dash or, as the manual suggests, pulling the sensor once a week to drain off water (and with no easy way to catch it) from a solid black spin-on. BTW, there was no water in my filter when I took the sensor out. 

I need to make a few more @CntryBoy777's Tractor Supports ®. It is getting really mushy, squishy, slimy on the left side of the "road" out of the pond area. About got stuck a couple of times again today. Had to use AWD and the hoe to extricate myself.


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## Mike CHS

I know you are being careful but once those things start sliding there is no stopping them till they hit something solid. 

I'm surprised their manuals aren't better than that based on their rep.


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## Wehner Homestead

Wow @Bruce! You’ve been up to a lot. Congrats on the tractor and getting to learn it so quickly.


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## Bruce

Was using the backhoe in the pond and  hydraulic leak!! Stopped doing what I was doing and got the tractor up on "land". Cleaned up the fluid and moved everything, determined that it is one of the hoses for the cylinder that raises and lowers the lower arm. It is getting picked up tomorrow by the dealer. 

_So a question for the backhoe knowledgeable:
Is there anything *I* could have been doing that would cause the hose to go? It is definitely a hose, not a fitting. Of course the hoses are covered with thick fabric so I can't see the leak._

Since I couldn't continue with the pond, I dropped the FEL and put the forks on the quick attach (AKA "Tool Carrier") and went out to the woods. Pulled out some trimmed trees I had cut 3 weeks ago before I got the tractor. Cut two other trees and brought them all back to the front of the barn. So far lots easier on my back than cutting them to 16" in the woods and carrying the pieces out to the field.


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## Latestarter

Sorry you seem to be having all these issues with a new tractor. Guess the up side is you just call the dealer and yell and scream and then use the warranty for service. I cut down a small gum tree for the goats today. The pastures are getting really dry and crackly... Figured some moist greenery would be appreciated and I have lots of gum trees I can afford to lose.


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## Bruce

And make space for the other gum tree to grow larger!


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## Mike CHS

Gum Trees grow so quickly you probably won't lose anything.


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## CntryBoy777

At least ya are working the "bugs" out of it....and hope it all smoothes out some for ya.....sure sounds like a winner getting the wood handled too.....


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## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> ..and about those tadpoles....they grow really fast so they will be jumping out of the water and hopping away, before too long..........hope ya was able to "Chuckle" today.....


If they are unlucky, they will be snack for the heron.


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## Bruce

@greybeard do you have a comment on my question? They are picking it up soon and I would like to know if there is a chance I screwed something up or there was just a weak hose on a new machine.

_So a question for the backhoe knowledgeable:
Is there anything *I* could have been doing that would cause the hose to go? It is definitely a hose, not a fitting. Of course the hoses are covered with thick fabric so I can't see the leak._


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## CntryBoy777

I don't think it was anything that ya did Bruce....I don't have experience with tractors, but have tons on a forklift....there are always weak spots along the way during the manufacture of the hoses and they have to endure the pressure and the oil traveling through them.....if there is a flaw in the wall of the hose it will be revealed sooner rather than later.....sure hope the snafus come to an end for ya....so ya can get back to having some more Fun!!.....


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Was using the backhoe in the pond and :ep hydraulic leak!! Stopped doing what I was doing and got the tractor up on "land". Cleaned up the fluid and moved everything, determined that it is one of the hoses for the cylinder that raises and lowers the lower arm. It is getting picked up tomorrow by the dealer.
> 
> @greybeard do you have a comment on my question? They are picking it up soon and I would like to know if there is a chance I screwed something up or there was just a weak hose on a new machine.
> 
> _So a question for the backhoe knowledgeable:
> Is there anything *I* could have been doing that would cause the hose to go? It is definitely a hose, not a fitting. Of course the hoses are covered with thick fabric so I can't see the leak._


Yes I do.
Get used to it.
OEM hoses have a short lifespan, just as tires on a brand new vehicle do. On most import farm equipment and implements, anything ancillary to the engine and drive train is made as cheaply as possible.
I'm assuming the leaky hose is part of the FEL and not the backhoe attachment? Or did you mean it is a hose that raises and lowers the BkHoe stabilizer?

On loaders, I saw it constantly when I worked at the Kubota dealership, but they finally learned it was costing them $$ in the long term due to lost customers and too many service related warranty claims. We ended up just changing out every hose on some loaders under warranty while we had them in for one leaky hose, whether the rest leaked or not, using locally made hydraulic hoses.

NO, there is nothing you could have done in your dirt work that could cause the leaking hose. You haven't had it long enough or put nearly enough hours on the unit for it to be a case of the hoses rubbing together inside the fabric cover either, and even if you dead headed the control lever (holding it so that a cylinder is fully extended or fully retracted under pressure for more than a couple seconds) the pressure relief valve is supposed to ensure pressure stays well below burst point of the hyd line/hose.

IF, you were using it out in heavy brush, it's possible a hose could have been hung on something, but I'm pretty sure from your pictures and work description this is not the case, especially in light the leaky hose was encased in the fabric sheath.

Likely as not, the service dept will simply shrug, tell you "it happens" and offer no realistic explanation.

On my brother-in-law's Kubota tractor, I replaced every hose on his FEL and grapple within a few years 2-3 of him buying it, and I insisted we get the hoses made at a local shop as a hydraulic shop or even NAPA makes better hoses and fittings than OEM, and lots of dealerships just make their own or has a local place make the, anyway.


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## Mike CHS

I'm interested in the answer to that one.  I have put some major strain on my front hydraulics and haven't busted any hoses yet.


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## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> I'm interested in the answer to that one.  I have put some major strain on my front hydraulics and haven't busted any hoses yet.


As I said, Kubota finally learned and made some changes in QC regarding both their hoses and seals in loaders.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Yes I do.
> Get used to it.


We ARE used to it AND value your comments highly!! I figured I should be forearmed in case they want to claim it is not a warranty thing but something I did BEFORE they tell me  So far they have been good, hopefully that will continue.



greybeard said:


> I'm assuming the leaky hose is part of the FEL and not the backhoe attachment?


No, it is one of the 2 that go to the "lower" or "inside" (visual reference) cylinder in the boom. It raises and lowers the boom, the "upper" or "outside" cylinder extends and retracts the dipper arm and isn't affected. It doesn't look like it has been getting pinched and I've not noticed it. I did notice that 2 of the hoses going out the dipper were getting caught between it and the boom as the dipper extended and retracted so I zip tied them to the other hoses farther into in the dipper, problem solved.



greybeard said:


> On my brother-in-law's Kubota tractor, I replaced every hose on his FEL and grapple within a few years 2-3 of him buying it, and I insisted we get the hoses made at a local shop as a hydraulic shop


Interesting. Before he figured out which hoses I was talking about, he told me to go get one made at a local (to him) shop. Guess if I need out of warranty work I'll do that. Nice to know I'm better off with local than OEM parts.

Oh, and on that fuel "pre filter"?? He had to look at the diagrams and "explode" the can that holds the paper filter to find the part number. Said he has NEVER sold one of those. I wonder if it gets changed when someone brings their tractor in for 50 hour service. I guess it isn't real important to replace it at 50 hours. A guy on Tractorbynet with a 1538 (basically the same engine) said his owner's manual doesn't give a timeframe for replacing the fuel filters. Said something about replacing them if the engine is running rough IIRC.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> No, it is one of the 2 that go to the "lower" or "inside" (visual reference) cylinder in the boom.


That's usually simply called  the boom cylinder.

By "get used to it" I meant get used to replacing hydraulic hoses. 

They will honor the warranty on hoses for awhile, but be prepared, even within the warranty time period, to be told it doesn't cover 'consumables', and consumables often include any rubber goods.  

Can't expect even a steel braided rubber covered and rubber lined hose to last as long as a pump or other mechanical part, as the hoses are constantly being contracted into a "U' (or inverted 'U' ) and straightened back out, then cycled again over and over again at high temps and pressures. But, it's way too early for them to start going bad at just over the 1st 50 hr service. 50 hrs of course, is basically just over one six day, 8 hr work week. Not even broke in good yet.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I wonder if it gets changed when someone brings their tractor in for 50 hour service.


Sometimes we changed the fuel filters at 1st service, sometimes did not..........customer's choice.
The reason for doing it is in case there was any debris or even water in the tank between the time it was built and sold to the customer. It could easily be up to a year and rust never sleeps...nor does condensation.  Be meticulous about using clean fuel from clean containers and fuel filters will last a very very long time.
(I have not yet changed the fuel filter on my gasoline 2008 Silverado pickup but have changed the filters on all my diesel farm equipment many times since '08)


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> By "get used to it" I meant get used to replacing hydraulic hoses.


 I thought you were saying to get used to you having an opinion and commenting.
Got it, hydraulic hoses will go.  ASSUMING they are of 'decent' quality, about how many hours of work can one expect a given hose to last? Could be useful information not only for when I should think about replacing hoses before they go but also anyone buying a used tractor. Questions like: Will it need new hoses soon? Should I just replace them right off?


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I thought you were saying to get used to you having an opinion and commenting.
> Got it, hydraulic hoses will go.  ASSUMING they are of 'decent' quality, about how many hours of work can one expect a given hose to last?


impossible to say. depends on too many local factors, how good the quality was to begin with etc.


> Could be useful information not only for when I should think about replacing hoses before they go but also anyone buying a used tractor. Questions like: Will it need new hoses soon? Should I just replace them right off?



I never replace the hoses on my own backhoe till they actually need it, just due to the trouble of getting to them. Not much room to work, and always caked with mud and grease.


----------



## Bruce

I can see that. All the hoses are covered individually in heavy fabric, then they are all sent down inside the boom in a big common fabric sleeve and go up under the platform to the controls. I can't think changing a specific hose will be much fun since it seems unlikely it will be easy to thread a single hose down the big sleeve and up into the controls.


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## Baymule

I worked for a garbage company. Those hydraulic hoses bust because of the hard life they live. Just like GB said, they flex constantly and any weak spot is quickly found and ruptures. The best fittings are the Gates brand. We used both Gates and Weatherhead. The Gates had a better clamp and grip, the Weatherhead often burst at the fitting. After we switched to all Gates fittings and Gates hose, the call outs for busted hoses went way down.


----------



## Bruce

Given I have only 55 hours on the engine so not all of that on the backhoe, I HOPE it was a manufacturing defect rather than wear and tear related. In any case, the dealer called today to say they fixed it under warranty and will bring it back tomorrow. My step-sister and her husband are visiting tonight through Sat AM so I doubt I'll be using the tractor any more this week. Then DW, DD1 and I go college touring in Canada starting early Sat afternoon and won't be back until Friday late afternoon so no tractoring for me for over a week!


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## Mike CHS

Those hours add up fast for awhile.  Most of mine were cutting the pastures but although we have had our tractor for going on 4 years it only has 390 hours on it.  Almost all of those were the first two years but relatively minor hours since we have had sheep.  Mostly just topping off the tall grasses.


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## Bruce

Yep, I don't figure it will see nearly so many hours once I finish the pond (due to completion or rain starting to fill it).


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## greybeard

There's 'easy' hours and 'hard' hours when it comes to tractors and other powered equipment, and, tho hours do affect any resale value, the most important thing is how the equipment is cared for and maintained.

When using the backhoe itself, the engine becomes a constant rpm motor that is doing nothing but driving a hydraulic pump, and the only other wear & tear is on the pivot points of the boom/stick/bucket/swing. It's only when the tires are turning that wear on everything or anything  else comes in to play.

If a backhoe/loader combo had nothing to do it's entire life but dig a straightline trench, (just digging and dumping off to the side of the trench) & minimum required maintenance was done, and a greasegun was used religiously on the hoe pivots, the unit would last forever.  It's all the rest of the crap we do with them that wears them out.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Yep, I don't figure it will see nearly so many hours once I finish the pond


You may be surprised just how many uses you will find for it other than your pond work. They will spoil you for sure.


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## Latestarter

I don't even own one and can think of a dozen things just to start with... Sorry you'll be separated from your tractor for a week or so. Hopefully there'll be no heavy rain while you're gone and you'll come back not having any further worries about tadpoles.  Sure looking fwd to pictures of the pond when you're done cleaning it out, and again when it's re-filled next spring.


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## CntryBoy777

What????.....visitors and and a trip at such a critical point in your weather?.....priorities man!!....priorities!!.....ya have a breakdown and get it fixed....and then, announce a Delay?....just how could ya do such a thing to so many that ya call Friends?....................I guess we can do nothing, but wait......sure hope ya have a Great visit and a very safe trip.....we'll survive til ya get back, but will surely miss your updates......


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> My step-sister and her husband are visiting tonight through Sat AM so I doubt I'll be using the tractor any more this week. Then DW, DD1 and I go college touring in Canada starting early Sat afternoon and won't be back until Friday late afternoon


Enjoy your company and have a safe trip!


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## RollingAcres

So Bruce, I was just wondering if you sing this song while you're on your tractor:

_She thinks my tractor's sexy....
She's always staring at me while I'm chugging along...

_
Sorry I can't help it, this song was just on.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

RollingAcres said:


> So Bruce, I was just wondering if you sing this song while you're on your tractor:
> 
> _She thinks my tractor's sexy....
> She's always staring at me while I'm chugging along...
> 
> _
> Sorry I can't help it, this song was just on.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> What????.....visitors and and a trip at such a critical point in your weather?.....priorities man!!....priorities!!.....ya have a breakdown and get it fixed....and then, announce a Delay?....just how could ya do such a thing to so many that ya call Friends?....................I guess we can do nothing, but wait......sure hope ya have a Great visit and a very safe trip.....we'll survive til ya get back, but will surely miss your updates......


Oh my, you are right!!!  I am so rude and inconsiderate!! I apologize profusely and will cancel the trip to Canada.  



RollingAcres said:


> So Bruce, I was just wondering if you sing this song while you're on your tractor:
> 
> _She thinks my tractor's sexy....
> She's always staring at me while I'm chugging along...
> 
> _
> Sorry I can't help it, this song was just on.


If any "she" is thinking that it would have to be one of the 20 chickens. And they only stare at me when they are expecting treats so I'm not sure the song applies

I am quite religiously using the grease gun. Anything that pivots has a zerk and I'm putting the gun on each one at least every 10 hours of use of that part. Some days the FEL gets little use but the hoe is working a lot. And probably somewhat "hard" duty with the bucket in mucky stuff. I always wash that off. 

And yes there is a reason there is an engine hour meter but no odometer. 

Tractor returned without any notification. Went outside early this afternoon and there it was parked next to the wood pile. No charge on the hose but I did have to pay $55 for them to "easy out" a broken zerk on the bottom of the boom. Must have hit a rock or something. They said the darn thing kept breaking apart so it took 1/2 hour.


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## Mike CHS

I prefer them to fix things they see rather than not.    Our CO-OP is like that with my Cub Cadet.  Anything they see that is a might bit off gets fixed.


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## greybeard

If you don't already have some, ya may as well get a package of grease zerks that fit your machine. Some will break off, some will plug up, some will simply & mysteriously disappear from the threaded hole & face of the Earth, never to be seen by modern man again.

(If it's like a lot of modern stuff, the holes aren't

actually threaded and neither are the zerks...they are 'drive in' zerks.
No threads, just ridges.
Drive-in zerks..





Some places call them 'push in' tho it takes a lot of force to get one all the way seated in it's bore, and they are a royal pain in the butt to get out if it goes bad or breaks off)

https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-3-16-PTF-Straight-Head-Angle-5PU15


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## Bruce

So you are saying I should use "cram in" zerks as replacements when I need them rather than the screw in ones that are there now? I can see where they would be a bitch to get out, and driving them in will destroy the tapped threads in the machine.

Been a LONG time since I've seen that drive in movie ad!


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## greybeard

only use the drive in zerks if the hole is not threaded.


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## Bruce

OK, I won't be using them, all the zerks are threaded. I've tightened a few.


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## greybeard

Manufacturers went to the smooth holes and drive in zerks to save the cost of threading the holes and making threads on the zerks. The ridges are just cast in the original casting of the zerk's core, not tool cut like threads have to be.


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## Bruce

Just so @CntryBoy777 (and potentially others) don't feel neglected:

DW, DD1 and I were in Augusta, ME Sat evening/night on the way to see Mount Allison University in Sackville, NB and Saint Mary's in Halifax NS. Had dinner at a Japanese place called Kume Sushi Hibachi. If you happen to be in or near Augusta we give it 3 thumbs up.

Made it to Sackville, NB yesterday. B&B is nice but we chose it specifically because their restaurant had lamb on the menu. I love lamb, can't get it at restaurants at home. No lamb available tonight and maybe not when we come back on Wed night  Might choose to eat at a restaurant in town, much less money. 

Mt. Allison tour starts at 10 AM Monday, goes to 11:30. Then meet with registrar for 1/2 hour followed by the head of the languages program. DD wants to double major in Spanish and Japanese with thoughts toward teaching ESL and translating. After however much more time she deems necessary, we'll head to Halifax, it is only 2 hours driving. Yesterday was long, left at 10 AM got here about 7:20, lost an hour to the time zone. We'll get it back on Thursday though.


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## RollingAcres

Sorry you didn't get to have lamb at the restaurant you have chosen. I know you were looking forward to it. 
Maybe look for an Indian restaurant, they almost always have lamb on the menu.
Safe travels!


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## Baymule

What a disappointment!  Their menu lied to you! No Lamb!


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## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Sorry you didn't get to have lamb at the restaurant you have chosen. I know you were looking forward to it.
> Maybe look for an Indian restaurant, they almost always have lamb on the menu.
> Safe travels!


Yes but not the same! I'm looking for chops, leg or rack. Not lamb cooked into something else.


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Yes but not the same! I'm looking for chops, leg or rack. Not lamb cooked into something else.


I understand.
So any chance of looking for a restaurant with lamb on the menu on the returning route?


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## Bruce

Not that I know of.

DD liked Mt. A (which seems to be what everyone we've talked to in NB and NS call it). Small town of 5.5K (with a gluten free bakery), school population ~2,300. School has what she wants and seem to be very accommodating of her "odd status" being 25 so 7 years out of HS and with a few CC courses in the last year. The fact that she looks much closer to 18 than 25 won't hurt wherever she goes as a freshman. She's hoping for January.

Dorm rooms are decent, all have 3ish cu ft mini fridges and (amazingly) free washers and dryers. DD2 got LOTS of quarters for Christmas when she was at Beloit, I think it was $2/wash and $2/dry though she could get 2 washer loads in one dryer. Food service seems to be accommodating of different dietary requirements/desires. Campus smallish but nice. Oldest building is the original women's dorm. The guide kept calling it the "Old Lady's Hall" though I think she was REALLY trying to say the old "Ladies' hall"  needed a slight pause in that phrase.
Interesting factoid:
"May 25, 1875
Grace Annie Lockhart becomes the first woman in the British Empire to receive a Bachelor degree when she graduates with her BSc "

There is a waterfowl park right nearby that we walked through. Nice place for a bit of exercise and relaxation. Pictures later. The dorms are above the bigger street, all other building below. The smaller buildings on the lower right are not part of the campus but the gluten free bakery is one of them.



DD said it is a "Maple League" school, which apparently is the Canadian equivalent of our Ivy League schools. She told the registration advisor (Mt. A grad from about 8 years ago) that she was bored with the CC courses and wanted a challenge. Advisor said Mt. A would be good for that. Not concerned that she didn't take the SAT or ACT because Canadian colleges don't care about such standardized testing. Also not concerned that her senior year transcript will have P/F (all P) instead of number grades. Happy with the 4.0 on the CC courses. So this school is still on the definitely possible list. I gather there are a few in Ontario she might be interested in as well though they have not been visited.

Went to see St. Mary's in Halifax today. 6,400 students in a city of 440K. Very compact campus surrounded by homes and trees, a couple of kilometers from the more congested parts of Halifax. But ... SMALL dorm rooms, there are 4 buildings 4 stories high (with shared kitchens), one 22 story with 2 stairwells and 4 elevators and one 20 story with NO elevators at all. Almost all the buildings are connected so you pretty much never go outside which could be nice in foul weather but seems claustrophobic, like the dorm rooms. Lots of stairs to get around places since the ground the buildings are on isn't flat.


The dorms are everything between the 2 towers (inclusive) at the bottom.

 DD has written it off.

We did find a nice restaurant called Morris East in Bedford, near the B&B where we are staying. B&B host recommended it last night after we told him all of DD's dietary restrictions. They have a gluten free pizza crust and even a gluten free tart shell (both cost more than regular of course). Last night I couldn't decide between the Spaghetti Bolognese and the lemon chicken. Went with the chicken, it was good. DD had half her 9" pizza left (normal) which came back to the fridge in the room. DW had pizza, ate it all as is normal.

Wore DD out today with:

St. Mary's tour
Walk around the Point Pleasant Park (can post pictures later)
Lunch
Natural History Museum
Walk around the Halifax Public Garden
She's held out really well so far. Way more than she could have a year ago so that is great. Bodes well for her being able to handle a full college course load away from home. Anyway, we brought her back to the B&B at her request and left her to eat her pizza. Back to Morris East for DW and me. Waitresses recognized us as we came in. The one we had last night asked if I was going to have the Spaghetti Bolognese. Yep! It was good. DW had another pizza.

The morning plan is to check out here and go to the Bay of Fundy and see, best we can, the highest tides in the world then we go back to Sackville, NB. Don't know that DD has anything else she wants to see there but we planned it so she could if she wanted to.  Will have breakfast Thursday at the gluten free bakery (where the baker is already planning to make sticky buns with no nuts at DD's request yesterday) then head down to Bangor, ME for the night.


----------



## Baymule

This sounds like it will be very good for her.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Maple League" school, which apparently is the Canadian equivalent of our Ivy League schools.



_There will obviously be ups and downs in the Maple League’s progress. Each institution will play a crucial role in attracting students to invigorate the respective town, but working together through the Maple League will make it that much easier. Regardless of the university, Acadia, Mount Allison, St. FX, and Bishop’s all have so much to offer. They deliver on the promise of a solid liberal arts education and they provide the intimacy that so many larger schools lack. But if there’s one thing they do best, it’s that they ensure students aren’t just numbers. Students are the central focus of the institutions. They’re the poets, the scientists, the artists, the athletes, the singers, the mathematicians, the leaders, the writers, the activists, and the scholars that form the bedrock of each school. They are the future. The least these universities can do is help them make the best of it._


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## CntryBoy777

Sure sounds like ya are having a good trip....and really busy, too....I can understand not wanting to got to the one with all those blame stairs....I got out of breath just thinking about them.....if I could get ya to do me a favor when ya get to Bangor I sure would appreciate it.....look kinda SE and give a wave towards Winter Harbor for me....haven't been up there since we moved back in '66..........y'all be careful and enjoy the scenery.


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## Bruce

I've been to Bar Harbor twice but that was before I knew you, waving at Winter Harbor would have been a lot closer then!


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## Bruce

OK, looked up the Maple League colleges. She's already been to Bishop's (in Quebec a couple of hours from home) which is where she found out about Mt. A.), they have both Spanish and Japanese but it is physically impossible to add in ESL at Bishop's with the way their courses are set up. 
St. Francis Xavier is in Nova Scotia, as is Acadia (in Wolfville, we will be going through there today!) but neither have Japanese. Guess that is why we aren't visiting them even though we are really close.


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## RollingAcres

Sounds like a good trip and sounds like both places would be great for her.


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## Latestarter

Bruce, Is there any reason she's only looking at Canadian schools? I mean I expect she's going to need to board at whatever school she chooses simply because of where you're located. Why not consider a school in Japan that teaches Spanish and ESL? Or Spain and a school that teaches Japanese and ESL? I mean immersion would pretty much guarantee she'd get that country's language down pat. Glad you're having a good trip so far.


----------



## Bruce

Don't know about Japanese schools. I doubt she would be able to get a degree in both Japanese and Spanish though.
Why Canada? Nice schools, cheaper. Mt. A would be $25K a year USD including housing, meals and medical, UVM (if they have the programs) would be $31K, no medical insurance. Since she is 25 now, she'll be tossed of DW's insurance in March so more money for that. I really don't understand why they give a rat's patootie if related people are all on the same insurance ... other than greed, they can charge more for the family -1 and a single.


----------



## greybeard

ESL....Sounds like one of those things where the only employment opportunity out there is teaching other people the same thing you were taught?
(my niece's husband is like that......went to college for years and years and years, riding the govt loans or grants till the $$$ ran out, and ended up with a degree in marine biology so specialized, the only job he could get was teaching the same thing to others.. )

Is there a chance in hades, that some college would start a degree program, qualifying the graduate to teach foreigners English as a 1st language?  (probably won't be any liberal arts institution that ever does it) 

I sometimes wonder, that if I press 2 for Spanish, I'll eventually get someone on the other end that speaks better English than the person on the 1 line, or at least does it without an Asian  or Mideast accent.


----------



## Bruce

I think the ESL thing is a teaching certificate sort of thing. And you really couldn't teach foreigners English as a first language since they already are already fluent in one (or more) other languages


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I think the ESL thing is a teaching certificate sort of thing. And you really couldn't teach foreigners English as a first language since they already are already fluent in one (or more) other languages



No, but their children can be taught it as a first language, and that is NOT what has been happening in this country for the last couple 3 decades.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Went to see St. Mary's in Halifax today





Bruce said:


> DD has written it off.



So is DD picking Mt A. U or she will keep looking? When does she start college?


----------



## Bruce

She is going to apply to Mt. A. and will look at others if they don't want her. I see in my USPS "Informed Delivery Daily Digest" that she is getting a post card today from the senior that gave the tour. Definitely feels like "small college service". Kind of like what my wife does as the clerk in a small PO compared to the big ones. She's hoping to start in the January session which means not much lead time to get a visa for educational residence. Not sure about that process but she'll figure it out.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> She is going to apply to Mt. A. and will look at others if they don't want her. I see in my USPS "Informed Delivery Daily Digest" that she is getting a post card today from the senior that gave the tour. Definitely feels like "small college service". Kind of like what my wife does as the clerk in a small PO compared to the big ones. She's hoping to start in the January session which means not much lead time to get a visa for educational residence. Not sure about that process but she'll figure it out.



That was nice that the senior sent her a postcard. It such makes you/her feel welcome.
Right, not much lead time left. Maybe the student visa process for Canada won't take as long as the visa process for the US.


----------



## Bruce

Didn't get much done on the pond while I was traveling to Canada 
Dug with the backhoe Saturday for hours. Slow, one 16" bucket at a time, dig out, put to the side dig, put to the side. Sunday we went to a family gathering, no pond work. Yesterday I moved the stuff I dug out Saturday, for hours. Slow, one 16" bucket at a time, pick it up, move it ~18', pick it up, move it ~18'. When I finished that yesterday afternoon I decided to see if I could get the tractor down into the dug area and move with the loader. YES! Only 2 buckets as a test, pictures taken before I started this afternoon. 
   

Today after a whole 2 hours of work. Fall is coming  look at those shadows and it was only 5 PM!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Making progress!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya seem to be working the things out and gaining experience with the equipment and lay of the land.....the coming winter will give ya time to have a "game plan" for the next spring if it doesn't fill up on ya.....


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Didn't get much done on the pond while I was traveling to Canada
> Dug with the backhoe Saturday for hours. Slow, one 16" bucket at a time, dig out, put to the side dig, put to the side. Sunday we went to a family gathering, no pond work. Yesterday I moved the stuff I dug out Saturday, for hours. Slow, one 16" bucket at a time, pick it up, move it ~18', pick it up, move it ~18'. When I finished that yesterday afternoon I decided to see if I could get the tractor down into the dug area and move with the loader. YES! Only 2 buckets as a test, pictures taken before I started this afternoon.
> 
> Today after a whole 2 hours of work. Fall is coming  look at those shadows and it was only 5 PM!
> View attachment 51903 View attachment 51904


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## Mike CHS

That was funny  but Bruce might not think so.


----------



## Bruce

They are still in that small muddy pool in the first picture! Presumably it will eventually rain and the parts I've been digging out will hold water, then the tadpoles can increase their range. The lowest point is to the right and closer to the side I'm standing on to take that picture.


----------



## greybeard

Well! That's a relief. The coons and birds should be able to find them much more easily now, with them all bunched up in the smaller area.


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## Latestarter

Wow, you've come a long way and it's looking really good. I'm pretty sure at this point though, you're probably looking forward to being done with it. Looks like you'll have added 2-3 feet of depth to the deep end when it's all said and done. With that added capacity, hopefully you won't have it drying up on you in the future unless there's a really severe drought.


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## RollingAcres

Looking good Bruce!


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## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> View attachment 51910





Poor Bruce! He's never going to tell us anything anymore.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Wow, you've come a long way and it's looking really good. I'm pretty sure at this point though, you're probably looking forward to being done with it. Looks like you'll have added 2-3 feet of depth to the deep end when it's all said and done. With that added capacity, hopefully you won't have it drying up on you in the future unless there's a really severe drought.


You are very right on all accounts there @Latestarter!  

I didn't dig today for a few reasons.

Had to take DW's car in for coolant change (both engine and inverter) this morning.
DD1 has started her classes so while she was gone I got the chainsaw out and got about 80% of the wood I brought up 2 weeks ago cut to 16(ish)". I can finish the rest tomorrow late morning when she goes to class again.
It was pretty mucky yesterday, about got stuck several times churning it up. Figured it best to let it dry up some. Doesn't take much of a rock to stop the FEL especially when I don't know if it is a football sized rock or a big piece of ledge. I picked out a few that I saw this morning so hopefully I can get through that tractor trapping stuff. 
Who could pass up the opportunity to cut cordwood when it is 90°F and humid??
Will dig some more tomorrow afternoon. BTW, I have a shocking thing to tell you all, hopefully you are sitting down. 
You can dig muck out of a pond WAY faster with the 60" FEL than with the 16" backhoe bucket  Of course I knew that from when I was digging the other side of the pond before the "Tadpole Incident". Been slow going since then. Tractor now has 72 hours on the engine. Most of it digging the pond. 

OK, stupid chainsaw question time. I took it in and got it fixed up over a month ago. It ran fine for the couple of hours I used it 2 weeks ago to cut trees down when the backhoe hydraulics were leaking. Today I was surprised by 2 things:

It seems to not be using much chain oil. I thought that went about 1:1 with gas use. Especially odd since when I picked it up they said the oiler wasn't working and they had fixed it. Seemed like it had been using oil at what I thought was a proper rate before it broke.
It won't shut down when I move the lever up to 'stop'. I had to put the choke on to kill it every time.
I guess I should take it back for them to look at it but is there some adjustment one can make that would fix the lack of shutting down?


----------



## greybeard

What brand and model chainsaw?
Assuming you begin with both oil and fuel tanks full, most Stihls are designed to run out of gas before running out of bar oil. Some do have an oiler adjustment. Some do not.

Shutoff on a medium duty Stihl is accomplished by a little bar spring grounding out the coil wire when the lever is moved to 'off'.. sometimes, the spring gets out of position or hangs up on a cam that is part of the switch lever. 


 

Usually tho, after it has been worked on or taken apart, the problem is a spade connector has come off it's terminal.
Other brands, I'm not real familiar with.


----------



## Bruce

It is a Stihl MS180 C-BE. I don't mean there is a LITTLE bar oil left when the gas is mostly gone, I mean like still 3/4 full. I've never seen more that a bit of bar oil in the reservoir when it is out of gas before. So, either it was using WAY more than it should have originally OR something is wrong now.


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## greybeard

If everything for the bar oil was working right before the shop worked on it, I'd take it back to them, but it does appear that one of the complaints about that model with the auto oiler was it used too much bar oil.  I'm not sure if there is an adjustment for that model or not. .

You can take the bar and chain off, and start the unit with the bar cover off and you should see oil coming out the little nozzle. I see mine oozing out just sitting there when I have the bar off and crank it over with the switch on off.
(Be careful reving it up. I would not run it long without a bar on it..it's easy to overspeed one without some kind of load on it and damage the innards.)

(My 290s usually have about 1/8-1/4 tank of bar oil left when I run out of gas)


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## Bruce

Any thoughts on the fact that it won't stop when I move the lever to the stop position? Really weird that it worked fine 2 weeks ago.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Any thoughts on the fact that it won't stop when I move the lever to the stop position? Really weird that it worked fine 2 weeks ago.


https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/bruces-journal.34651/page-158#post-566748


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## Bruce

Sorry, didn't see that you had updated your post, it was back a page.

Ding ding ding ding! @greybeard wins again! The part labeled "c" in the picture was shoved way left of the holder, no way for the lever labeled "b" to contact it. Shoved it back in its proper position and now it shuts off as it should. Still need to look at the oiler. Found a video on how to replace the oil pump which made what I will be looking at more clear.


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## RollingAcres

Bruce did you try your garlic yet?


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## Bruce

Pulled one. No overlapping cloves but a good size head. Guess I better pull the rest and the onions too. Fearful they will not store well though. I put some broccoli and cabbage in the basement where it is cooler than upstairs and the dehumidifier keeps it at about 50%. Both started to mold, broccoli a total loss so I brought the cabbage up the kitchen. Gave one away and am using the others, lots of moving stuff around in the refrigerator to keep them in there.


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## CntryBoy777

If ya want to save the garlic, but need it out of the way....ya can dice or mince it and sprinkle some olive oil on it....put it in a ziploc freezer bag and toss it in the freezer.....just remember that when ya use it to use it to cook with.....it will not cook  and render in a skillet, but will burn....the oil keeps it from being a hard chunk that ya have to chip with an ice pick....


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## Bruce

Unfortunately, minced and sautéed is the way I usually cook with garlic. But I might do as you say just to make sure I have some if the stuff I try to save fresh doesn't work out. Of course if it does look like it is starting to south, I can also do as you suggest.


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## CntryBoy777

You can do onions the same way.....most of ours is used in spaghetti, lasagna, stronganoff, and such so it is not noticed, but the flavor is there.....even have some bell peppers frozen.....


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## Bruce

I guess I don't make much of the "casserole" type stuff. Onions usually either sautéed into something or we make onion bhaji.


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## Baymule

Had to look that up, sounds good. bhaji how do you pronounce that?


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## RollingAcres

What is onion bhaji @Bruce ? Off to the World Wide Web we go to look up bhaji


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## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> bhaji how do you pronounce that?



"bah jee"
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/pronunciation/british/bhaji


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## greybeard

RollingAcres said:


> What is onion bhaji @Bruce ? Off to the World Wide Web we go to look up bhaji


Hashbrowns, without the taters.


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## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> Hashbrowns, without the taters.



Hashbrowns...now I want some (the ones with taters )


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## Rammy

Mike CHS said:


> That was funny  but Bruce might not think so.


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## Bruce

baa-gee - Learned about them at a Nepalese restaurant. They are nothing more than onion rings EXCEPT you use chickpea (garbanzo) flour in stead of wheat. Really good.


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## Bruce

Checked the oiler on the chainsaw. Nada. I opened it up down to the clutch and made sure the notch on the drum was engaging the wire on the worm gear. Didn't pull the clutch out, at this point I think the dealer needs to fix whatever they broke when they "fixed" the oiler before, though at the time it was using oil and gas about equally.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Didn't pull the clutch out, at this point I think the dealer needs to fix whatever they broke when they "fixed" the oiler before, though at the time it was using oil and gas about equally.


I think that is a reasonable course of action. 
(some Stihl saws did have an oiler adjustment screw, but I'm not sure if the newer ones still do. The adjustment screw on those, was on the very bottom of the saw.)


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## Bruce

I don't think it does, at least it wasn't mentioned in the 2 videos I found on the same or very similar saw. When I dropped it off she agreed that it should be using oil at about the same rate as gas (no surprise). The guy will look at it Monday since I didn't get there until about 4:30 yesterday.

About done digging the pond    it will hold water! I don't think there are any tadpoles left but there are a number of really small frogs in the mud puddle along with the bigger ones. I am concerned the frogs won't make it long though unless we get a TON of rain. I am pretty sure they winter over in the mud under the frozen water but if there is hardly any water, won't they freeze as well? Or freeze well before winter actually sets in since it doesn't take much to freeze a few inches of water.

Plan to make a test cordwood holder/transport cage tomorrow. I think I can get a 3.5' wide one right on the porch landing with the forks, accessible from the enclosed porch. No more loading the dump cart then unloading at the porch steps and stacking in the holders on the porch. A cord of dry hardwood runs about 2,000 pounds. If I read the fork manual right, the forks will lift that and more.  Given I will be loading them right off the splitter, the wood will weigh more then than it will after it dries. The tractor specs say lift capacity to full height at pivot pins is 1,650 pounds. So if I can work it out dimensionally, I should be able to fairly easily lift a run, right?  To be safe, I suspect I best limit myself to a quarter cord, not sure the porch landing will hold more .... or even that. Maybe I better get the whole family standing on it (~600 pounds) and see if it collapses. If it doesn't maybe get 1 more person and if it still doesn't collapse, perhaps I could actually get a full run in a holder. 

Now let's see a run is 16"x48"x96". I don't think the landing is 4' deep so maybe the cages should be 42" wide x 36" deep (4" spare for pieces 2 deep) and about 5' high?? Or maybe make it 7' high in the front, 5' in the back so I can put a piece of metal roof on it to provide snow protection when it is up against the porch door; load only to about 5'.


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## Latestarter

Ahhhh the possibilities seem endless! Hope whatever you finalize works!


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## Mike CHS

I think you might be over thinking this  bit.


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## Bruce

You don't think it is important to consider the size of the platform and lifting capacity of the equipment?


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## Mike CHS

Bruce - if I try to lift something and it strains, I drop it and take less.


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## Bruce

Yeah, that works for picking up stuff you need to move from here to there and it doesn't much matter how many trips but my long term plan is to fill the cages for drying then move one as needed to the porch landing, leave it there and move wood from it directly into the house to use, no extra intermediate moves onto the porch. Thus the cages kinda have to be somewhat of a known quantity as to how much they are holding. I burn about 4 cords a year so knowing how many I need to make a cord means no measuring to make sure I have enough. Which I won't this year, spent lots of time on the pond. Don't know that whatever else I cut now will have time to dry.


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## Latestarter

If you cut it after leaf drop, most of the sap will be gone and you set it for "last use" so it has time to dry a little more. When you stack it, stack really loose so lots of air can get in and around it to help dry it.


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## Baymule

You also run "stickers" or a length of lumber between the layers to give more air flow. I get stickers from Lowes for free and use them for all sorts of things. They are usually 4 feet long and I even find treated ones. They are the short pieces between the bundles of lumber to create the gap so the forks will fir under the bundle to lift it.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> You also run "stickers" or a length of lumber between the layers to give more air flow. I get stickers from Lowes for free and use them for all sorts of things. They are usually 4 feet long and I even find treated ones. They are the short pieces between the bundles of lumber to create the gap so the forks will fir under the bundle to lift it.


They will also allow more snow and ice to build up in between the layers. Lot of difference in where Bruce lives and where we do. 

If you still have the hoe attachment on when moving the racks of wood, you can lower the boom down and stretch (extend) the dipper out to act as a counterweight. Do however, be extremely cautious about left/right stability. It's easier to turn one over on it's side in this configuration, when making even a wide turn.


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## Bruce

I expect I'll have the backhoe on to keep some weight on the back. Load to be carried LOW, just above the ground, until it is lifted onto the landing which is about 3' high I think. I will definitely keep your roll over caution in mind!

Rack is a work in progress. Decided on 44" wide, 38" deep. So far I have made a pallet  with 4 vertical corners on the outside. That leaves a few inches on the sides for "slop" when putting it on the landing. Deciding if should make a bunch of vertical pieces to hold the wood in or maybe wrap 3 sides with chicken wire. Thoughts?

Going to make it 5' high and since I only need the angled top when the rack is on the landing, I've decided to make a single removable top which will be a bit more than 7' off the landing at the wall side ('front') so it is above the top of the storm door. I have the "base" of it made, still need to make the side triangles and top brace then cut a piece of metal for it.

The "racks in waiting" can just have a piece of metal roof on top to keep the snow from filling them. Might need to tarp the whole mess when a quantity of snow is expected. Long term I would like to make a woodshed to hold the racks of wood with open front and back during non snow seasons for more airflow. Some way to close up the back side in the winter.   

This is, of course, taking longer than it should for 2 reasons:

First time is always long figuring out what to do
I'm using old wood that was pulled from the house (figure Bay will approve) and it has sheetrock screws, nails and lots pneumatic gun staples in it. Takes a fair bit of time to pull all that out. The 3/4" pieces are made of hardwood flooring that was ripped out. Good thing looks don't matter on this project!


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## greybeard

Personally, unless I just have to lift something high, I prefer to use forks on the 3 point instead of moving it with the FEL. I always have forks on from fall thru early spring anyway to more easily move round bales so that's what I like to use for moving everything else too instead of starting the backhoe.
1. You never have to worry about losing traction at the rear wheels.
2. Generally more stable left to right.
3. The rear tires can support more load than the front tires. Narrow front tires tend to sink down in winter easier than the wider rear tires.
4. Lots easier to just temporarily pick up a load of dirt or snow in the front bucket to use as a counterweight to the real rear load.


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## Bruce

Guess I can pick up a tiny load in the backhoe bucket and have one of the DD's hang on for the ride
I have quick attach front forks. There is a large hunk of concrete with a lifting ring in the barn right next to the drive bay ramp. Wonder what that weighs and if I could lift it with the backhoe's chain hook if I really need some more weight on the back. Would have to truss it up somehow so it doesn't swing.

Don't know how high one could lift something with 3PT forks. I'm pretty sure I would have a devil of a time backing something into a narrow space. And I wouldn't be able to get it past the steps to the landing or between the hand rails. The loader arms are narrow enough to fit between the handrails and far enough forward of the front wheels to get the load on the landing ... at least that is what my measurements say.

BTW there ARE still tadpoles in the muck pool. We are SUPPOSED to get an inch of much needed rain tonight. I seriously doubt it will happen given the radar says all but some spittle is running south of us.

Cleaned the wood stove chimney today. Burning some scrap wood to test it. Seems fine and the living room/dining area isn't 64° anymore. And now I have an empty scrap wood box.


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> BTW there ARE still tadpoles in the muck pool. We are SUPPOSED to get an inch of much needed rain tonight. I seriously doubt it will happen given the radar says all but some spittle is running south of us.



That rain is stuck here in NY. It's been raining since yesterday morning.


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## Latestarter

you get a rain train and pick up 2+ inches to help get that new pond fill started right! Do you have any "finished" pics of the pond or are you still "fine tuning" it? Since you've lately been posting about the wood pallet system, I figured you'd finished with the pond.


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## Baymule

Yeah, we are on pins and needles waiting breathlessly for pictures of a big mudhole with pitiful but_ very_ cute little tadpoles at the bottom of it. shouldn't they be be frogs by now or are they going to be professional tadpoles forever?


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## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> shouldn't they be be frogs by now or are they going to be professional tadpoles forever?



I was thinking the same this morning when I saw his post and I had to look it up. It normally takes 8 to 9 weeks for tadpoles to turn into frogs, some take longer. Has it been 8-9 weeks yet since he posted about tadpoles?


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## Baymule

Honestly, for the life of me, I can't understand how he could leave those poor little tadpoles in that awful mudhole. He should have caught them all and transferred them to an aquarium in the house with a tunnel to a terrarium where they could be little froggies.


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## Bruce

The second aquarium needs to be resealed Bay 

Yeah, pond finished, but haven't remembered to take the camera out. I dug a pit maybe 18" deeper than the surrounding area so there would be a definite low spot but it doesn't seem to be holding water well. We got about 1" of rain (no more in the forecast  ) A section of the wider north end of the pond seems to be holding its little bit of water from the rain. Some of the muck slumped into the tadpoles' area and displaced a lot of the water. I did what I could to dig some of it out without killing the tadpoles that were attempting to stay wet. AND  found 4  small fish, 2 of which were still alive. Gasping on their sides in the mud hole, I have NO idea how they managed to survive in a mud hole with little water the last few weeks. So I put about 4 gallons of hose water in a bucket and put those fish in it. They recovered once they had clear water to breathe so they got some flake food and are in the upper part of the little barn for now. We are calling them Adam and Eve because it will be up to them to repopulate the pond if it ever gets enough water in it. Of course they could both be Adams or both Eves, then we have to figure out what kind of fish they are and see if we can get some more ... if the pond ever fills. We could use some of Florence's rain but I doubt there will be anything left if her remnants even reach us.

I have one wood rack done, will test it tomorrow. First, with a spotter, see if I really can stick it on the porch landing. If I can manage that, take it to the little barn and load it about halfway with some of last year's leftover wood and take it to the porch. If that works OK, take it back and load it up and take it to the porch. All the old wood in the little barn will be put on the porch in the racks there. I think there is about 1/2 cord there. If all goes well I have some wood I need to split that I can put in the rack. I'll build at least one more rack this year (time dontcha know) that I can use to move the already stacked wood to the porch landing.


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## goatgurl

the wood racks sound good in theory, sure hope they work in reality 'cause that would save you a ton of load and move it work.


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## Bruce

I hope so @goatgurl! I've seen similar on a tractor forum. Don't know how many are carrying directly to a door.

Wood rack picture, will try to remember to take some "in use" pictures later. The upper part is actually the start of the roof but I want to measure when the rack is on the porch landing before building it. Still not sure if I need something across the back to keep the wood from falling out during transport.

 

Pond after the rain

 

and some modification of the tadpole area. This is where I found the fish


The "pit" it has some tadpoles in it now too, must have washed down during the rain. Needs more water. Tadpoles in the pit.
  

The water in the north end of the pond. As you can see we didn't get much rain
 

And the fish in the bucket


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## Latestarter

yup... you need a lot of rain. On the wood rack... I'd be real concerned with no cross bracing that if you lean a little or hit a bump and jerk to the side, the whole thing will fold up and collapse... May not be an issue depending on how high the wood is stacked inside...


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## Wehner Homestead

My concerns are similar to LS’. My main concern would not having anything to help steady the load. If it shifts from any bump the load could fall forward or backward and then you’d have more work to do plus wood that’s potentially snowy or muddy. I’d make the back solid, less labor than slatted. The front, I’d do some sort of pony wall. Only have it come up so high to help steady the base of the load but still easy to access the load and easy to get the load in the rack.


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## RollingAcres

I like what @Latestarter and @Wehner Homestead said.


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## Pastor Dave

I wonder abt a heavy canvas cargo net for the back. It would weigh less and maybe still gibe some structural support while holding the stack in place.


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## Bruce

I will take it under advisement  I do have a top brace across the back. I assume you are talking about bracing the back from one top corner to the opposite bottom corner ... or a solid back? 

From these pictures you can see that it was only half filled and I could see where I was aiming at the platform. A solid back or full load would make that hard. I am planning to load only to about 4.5', not the full 5' so presumably I can still see through a bit. Will have to wait until Friday to try a full load of that nature, have an optometrist appointment in MA tomorrow. All day affair since it is about 7.5 hours of driving and I like to eat lunch and sit for an hour so my eyes aren't burned out from staring at the road. 

EC #1 - Add a board across the front so the forks can't pass through and hit the frame of the storm door. Done
EC #2 - hack off more of the lilac bush that grabbed the rack on the left side. Done

Future ECs 

Make it maybe 40" wide instead of 44". 2" of space on each side just isn't enough to make it easy to get the rack on the platform. A tiny change in the direction of the tires makes a big sideways change in the rack which then hits the hand rails and posts. 

      

The rack of wood on the porch was a little under half full before this load.


----------



## Bruce

And now, another very big (small?) surprise DW and DD1 spotted in the "pit" this evening.


Not quite sure what that is? How about this?


About 1.5" shell, presumably they are about 1" when they hatch. Must have hatched not a whole long time ago. I've not seen the big turtle since I found it in the hole full of water I was trying to dig for a post on the north fence line over a year ago. Apparently the eggs are laid in grass so I ASSUME up on the edge of the pond. And if there are eggs, that means there MUST be at LEAST 2 snapping turtles somewhere inside the fence, right?

So now there are frogs and tadpoles in the "south" mud pit. Frogs, tadpoles, swimming beetles and a snapping turtle in the pit ... which I keep adding water to so they can stay alive until we  get some rain and 2 fish in a bucket.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like things are working out for ya with the rack....glad ya will be able to do things easier and less wear and tear on the body.....
With that snapper in that puddle, everything else in the puddle is "on the menu".....just so ya know....


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## Bruce

So far I think the "everything else" is safe. The tadpoles are bigger than the turtle. Some of the smaller frogs better watch out though. They are only about the size of the turtle's shell. Don't know how fast the snapping turtles grow.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> So far I think the "everything else" is safe. The tadpoles are bigger than the turtle. Some of the smaller frogs better watch out though. They are only about the size of the turtle's shell. Don't know how fast the snapping turtles grow.


Depends how many little fishies and tadpoles they have to eat......


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## Bruce

No more fishies that I know of. But I guess I better not put "Adam and Eve" back in the pond until there is a LOT of water!


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## greybeard

Any fish slow enough to be caught and eaten by a turtle deserves to die anyway...


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## Bruce

But aren't the turtles sneaky and sit quietly waiting for the unsuspecting critter to get too close?


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## Latestarter

When you said you were going to put a rack or racks of wood up on the porch, I was picturing them sitting and staying on the deck where you'd go outside to get the wood. I didn't picture you placing the rack up there on temp basis to unload it into the inside porch area... So after you lift the pallet up to the door on the porch, I guess you go inside through a diff entrance and walk to the doorway to unload it inside? I noticed the storm door has no glass... not sure if that was planned or part of the wood rack learning curve...   looks like it did what you intended 

OOOooooo alligator snapping turtles... very nasty creatures when they get big. You're developing a regular wetlands menagerie there Bruce... Pretty soon, you won't be able to do anything on your land for fear of harming some living creature...


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## Bruce

You have it right both ways Joe! There is leftover wood in the little barn. Prior method of getting it to the enclosed porch and in the racks involved the GT and dump trailer several times a winter. Load the cart in the little barn, unload and carry it up the stairs and put in the racks. I need to move it onto the porch so it is accessible this winter since I have room on the porch racks. If I didn't have the tractor and my rack plan, that is what would have been done yesterday.

Figured it would be good stuff to test the drying/storage racks I'm attempting to build so first I moved the empty rack to the landing. Then made EC 1 & 2. Then loaded up some wood and placed the rack on the porch. That is where it would sit in the future for accessing as needed. Didn't want to load it up for drying/storage without first testing and modifying until moving it to the landing full works OK. I have a pile of wood that needs to be split that will go directly into a finished rack once I'm satisfied with the design. I'll need at least 2 for this winter since the one with the "hasn't had any time to dry yet" rack won't be available. Trying to plan my time to cut more wood, build more racks, do all the other stuff that needs to be done.

I'm going to modify the existing one to be 40" wide tomorrow and test with more wood. I think for the actual winter movement, I really need to have some fixed chocks in front of the stairs to stop the front tires at the proper location rather than needing to have an assistant standing on the porch playing "ground controller" and inching, inching, inching "TOO CLOSE!". I'm thinking this is a procedure that would substantially benefit from depth perception. Sadly that is an EC I can not make. I'm also thinking if I attach a string with a weight, like a big washer, on the back side I can get an idea if the load is level (sorta) or not since raising the loader arms tilts the forks and they have to be counter rotated to stay flat. Practice, practice, practice. 

And yes, there are 2 doors onto the porch. 99% of the time that door is used, it is to move cord wood from outside to inside. The other door is close to the main entrance to the house and is closer to the parking area. It is just out of sight on the right in the 3rd picture previously posted.

Driving to MA and back yields a lot of "thought time" so I thought about the suggestions to brace the rack. I don't want a permanent solid back or front, even partial, during the drying time since that would keep air from blowing through and drying the wood. But I could make "transport bracing" that would be put on only to move the wood. One thought that would be easy would be to use 2 ratchet straps to crank the piles tight to the platform. I have lots of those. Though a solid back could be useful as it would keep snow from blowing in.

DW and DD1 said the turtle moved to the upper water area today.


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## CntryBoy777

Something that may help ya out with a back or front piece is to either use window latches on it to be able to remove or install rather easily....or, make slides on the ends that the panel can slide into....it would depend on the clearence ya have and style of window latch that is used....


----------



## Pastor Dave

Latestarter said:


> OOOooooo alligator snapping turtles... very nasty creatures when they get big. You're developing a regular wetlands menagerie there Bruce... Pretty soon, you won't be able to do anything on your land for fear of harming some living creature...



My Dad had some acreage once that had a spring that fed into a woods and made a swampy area and fed a small area in the smack dab middle of a tilled field that always had water and sometimes a full fledge pond. It occurred naturally and had reeds and all the wildlife to go with it. He wanted to put it in tracts for some residential development and all the DNR told him was that he couldn't impede the spring, or the water movement to that woods or pond.  He told them he thought of making it a bigger pond and having homesites on the ridges around it. They were ok with that, but of course any plans had to be preapproved. He eventually sold the land as it was before he purchased it to a farmer wanting to keep it agricultural.


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## Bruce

I like the idea of keeping it agricultural!

 Looks like Florence has decided to swing well south of us. AGAIN no rain. WE NEED RAIN! 

I have to check with Al in regard to hay this year, already told him a month back that I would need 25 small squares. Usually he cuts at least twice a year, sometimes 3. I don't think he has anything to make a second cut this year. Nothing has been growing.


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## Pastor Dave

I got my two cuttings and decided with all the raking by hand and baling by hand, that was enough! I just got that field cut down today, and it was as high as the hood of my Craftsman. I probably could have used a third cut of hay, but will wait til Spring and plan to buy a hay rake for Class 0 or Class 1 tractors, and maybe a different stationary baler that looks to be more efficient.





And DONE and put away!


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## Pastor Dave

Bruce said:


> Looks like Florence has decided to swing well south of us. AGAIN no rain. WE NEED RAIN!



What was the one ahead of Florence? Edward? Don't remember, but it hit more Gulf states, right? We got 5" clear this far inland.
Surely you will get some rain with the remnants of Florence here in the next week or so.


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## Baymule

Your pond looks good. You are having fun with your tractor, it is saving you a lot of work. I like the turtle.


----------



## Bruce

Pastor Dave said:


> Surely you will get some rain with the remnants of Florence here in the next week or so.


Highly unlikely. Every time I look the track has moved yet more south. It is now expected to go through CT and Boston before heading out to sea. That is well over 200 miles south of us.

Messed in the pond again a bit today. Smoothed out the northern "low" section to get rid of the tractor wheel ruts, really trying to get a clean "low" area for when the level drops in the future. Don't need fish and tadpoles getting trapped in a bunch of small pools that will dry out. 

 
Then (some of you should definitely avert your eyes here) DW, DD1 and I rescued about 2 dozen tadpoles from the pit I had dug that does not hold water even 24 hours and put them in the north "pool".

Tomorrow I'm going to fill the pit with clay and fill some other low spots that I had to make so I would have traction to get farther into the north part. Seems SO wrong to be filling in part of the pond that I just dug out. That still leaves the small "muck pool" with some tadpoles in it south of the pit. That is where they originally ended up when everything slid a few weeks ago. Some of them were washed into the pit during the one rain we did have bit over a week ago. If the south muck pool is higher than the north pool it isn't by much. It does hold water so moving tadpoles would be a lot harder than finding them in the very shallow mud pool that was in the pit. 

And yes Bay, I am making good use of the tractor so far doing things that could not happen without it.


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## CntryBoy777

It is much nicer to work a machine....than to struggle to "just make do"....it can help ya catch up on that "to do" list and save ya wear and tear on your body....


----------



## Baymule

I am really glad for you that you got that tractor. I know how much I love mine and it sure has made a huge difference in the amount of work that we have been able to get done.  I pick at you, but if I were there, I would be moving the tadpoles to a bigger puddle too. No point in just watching them dry up and die if all you gotta do is catch and move them. Good for you.


----------



## Bruce

Filled the pit yesterday and some low spots close to it. Of course I can't smooth it out because the tractor wheels just make huge ruts in it, it is the same wet clay I pulled out before. Dumped a couple more loads over the area. Maybe if we ever get any rain (yesterday's forecasted rain for tomorrow is shot again ) it will cause the clay to slide into the lowest spots.  DD1 moved some tadpoles from the original "after the slide" mud hole, said some were starting to get legs. There are still some in that area so I can't yet fill it. But, hopefully, eventually, I will have a single, larger low point where whatever lives in the pond can escape to when the water drops in the future. IF it ever rains to have something to drop!


----------



## farmerjan

Too bad Wilmington couldn't have sent you a foot or two of their rain....


----------



## RollingAcres

@Bruce don't you know that when you need the rain, it doesn't rain but when you don't want it to rain that's when it pours for days?

Forecasting rain later this week here.


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## Bruce

Yeah even southern 1/3 of Vermont is supposed to get a "present" from Florence.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Well, @Bruce, I have been stalking you for weeks and I finally have caught up to the present.  Thanks for letting me read about your adventures.

Miss @Ridgetop, Miss @Rammy, Miss @goatgurl, and @Latestarter, would you folks kindly provide the names and contact info for the therapists you have been seeing after learning of my having stalked you for weeks?  After all, they will be trained in STASS (*).

Senile Texas Aggie

(*) STASS is not (yet) a formal diagnosis, although I think it has been proposed for the next revision of the APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, as numerous cases have been reported around the country.  In case you have not read about it in the news, STASS is Senile Texas Aggie Stalking Syndrome


----------



## RollingAcres




----------



## greybeard

I had a stalker once starting in 2006. (I think I may have mentioned it before here at BYH) Wife and I were living in a small house in the front of this property while they were building my present home and one day a pretty young blond came driving up out of the blue. Walked up and said hello to me, a few nicieites and walked around a bit and drove off. She returned frequently. I didn't think much of it, there were always friends of my father that I didn't know coming around, to see what we had done and were doing to the place. A few months later, in Feb, we moved to an apt in town since the only heat in that house was a wood burning stove and wife & I both were both tired of splitting wood and hauling it, and the whole place was a muddy quagmire from winter rain. (final straw was the morning the old Char bull walked by and took a good healthy green poop right on the hood of wife's sports car and she saw it as she left to go to work at 8:30 that morning.)

Not long after moving into the apt, the blond showed up there. Not sure how she found me. My wife found it hilarious but sternly warned me to walk the straight and narrow. Something to the effect of "I'll kick your scrawny wrinkled butt old man.." (wife is a decade & 1/2 younger than I am) 

We stayed there in the apt less than 6 months and moved into our new house as soon as it was finished (paid the re-letting penalty for breaking our 6 month lease)

Finally in our new home to be away from the world and all it's weirdness. Not to be...
I saw her coming down the long drive..the young girl just showed up here about a month after moving in. Wife was off work that day and I told her..
"Here she comes"

"Here who comes?"

"That blonde stalker girl again, she's found me"

Wife said she was going to go out & have a few words with her once and for all, but came back in after just a few seconds.

"That's no stalker you dumbaxx..she's the %*#@!* electric company  meter reader and reads the meters for everywhere around here"

My ego deflated somewhat...to about the size of a ping pong ball..........


----------



## Rammy

Awwww, poor @greybeard!! That is funny, though.


----------



## Bruce

I think you should go stalk @greybeard @Rammy, he needs the ego boost 

Don't worry about me @Senile_Texas_Aggie, I'm pretty oblivious to things happening around me, never noticed you were stalking


----------



## Rammy

I dont think @greybeard would like my skinny ugly self stalking him. Im not that good at it anyway.


----------



## farmerjan

Poor @greybeard  :  I think his ego got a little puncture in it when his wife found out it wasn't him that was being stalked, but his electric meter


----------



## greybeard

Well, don't worry much about my ego....I've always been a pretty humble guy anyway. Comes with title I guess..
<-------------------


----------



## farmerjan

@Bruce;  I was looking at our projected weather maps and it really does look like it is going to stay in the lower third of VT for the rain.  Sorry, you are pretty far north aren't you?  Sure wish we could send some of this up there.  We are supposed to get 3 days of sun starting Tues aft or Wed then thunderstorms, showers etc again starting on Sat......  It is getting old yet I think of all the ones in Tx and Ks and the four corner states that have had horrific drought for months on months and even years, and you hate to complain about rain.


----------



## Mike CHS

@farmerjan I saw that Richmond has been getting hit pretty hard but I'm guessing that isn't hitting anywhere near you yet.


----------



## farmerjan

Richmond is at the opposite side of the state.  I am in the Shenandoah Valley,  along  I-81, between Staunton and Lexington Va.  I-64 goes east from Staunton to the coast, Richmond and points east, Williamsburg;   and west from Lexington towards WV.  We have the Blue Ridge Mountains to the east and the Alleghanies  to the west.  Sometimes a storm will come right up the valley, but if it comes from the east the Blue Ridge's will mitigate alot.  We are more affected by the storms that come up from Roanoke VA.  There is alot of flooding down that way, but it will go down fast as the rains move out.  It is the NC and SC  people who have absolutely been  innudated.  We are on the backside of it now, and we actually were very fortunate to not get any torrential rain for any long length of time.  Our problem was being so wet all summer that it has had very little place to go and nowhere to soak in before becoming a problem.  It's been an annoyance for us, not a huge problem; some downed trees, minor mudslides and high water  road closings in some places.


----------



## RollingAcres

Poor @greybeard !


----------



## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> BTW there ARE still tadpoles in the muck pool. We are SUPPOSED to get an inch of much needed rain tonight. I seriously doubt it will happen given the radar says all but some spittle is running south of us.



I think you need to put some BIG water  haulers in the FEL and add a couple hundred gallons to the tadpole hole.     TSC has them and you can add the hose fitting at the bottom.


----------



## Bruce

Or I could just fill it with the hose from our well. Of course I don't know that it could support a drain of a 25,000 gallons of water. I am, of course, just guessing but the 24' above ground pool holds about 1,400 gallons. The pond is a lot bigger than the pool.


----------



## Mini Horses

OR...here's a thought...(unless it's heavy chlorine)   move the tadpoles to the pool !!


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce, you're not getting any of this rain today?


----------



## Wehner Homestead

About time to close the pool...drain it into the pond!


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Bruce, you're not getting any of this rain today?


We have a 17% chance of not much of nothing. And it isn't from Florence, she was supposed to max out about Rt 4 (Rutland) but from the radar it looks like she's barely making the MA/VT border.



Mini Horses said:


> OR...here's a thought...(unless it's heavy chlorine)   move the tadpoles to the pool !!


No chlorine in the pool, we use the Pristine system. And then we would have a pool full of frogs in the fall and spring! Except the frogs need to be able to get out of the water. I know, I can build stairs for them!



Wehner Homestead said:


> About time to close the pool...drain it into the pond!


I suppose I could link a bunch of hoses together and drain to the pond. Though it only gets dropped 18" or so.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> We have a 17% chance of not much of nothing. And it isn't from Florence, she was supposed to max out about Rt 4 (Rutland) but from the radar it looks like she's barely making the MA/VT border.



Ya I saw the radar after my comment, the big band of rain that we got here did not travel that far north to Rutland that way. Not sure where about you are, must be further north of Rutland?
And now it's back to sunny, hot and humid.



Bruce said:


> Except the frogs need to be able to get out of the water. I know, I can build stairs for them!


Yes you can!


----------



## Bruce

Way farther north than Rutland, it is 20 miles to the Canada border from our house.

DD1 moved 2 dozen (apparently not an exaggeration) tadpoles form the "mud hole" to the "pond" area this evening. Said there are still more in the mud hole That means close to 50 or so have been moved to the "pond". DW added some water to it tonight. No idea how much or how much it was necessary, I didn't look at it at all today, busy with "off farm" stuff.


----------



## RollingAcres

Oh you're way up there.

Well if those tadpoles survived being eaten by the heron and any other predators, then you'll have lots of frogs!


----------



## Bruce

I'm wondering how many tadpoles must have been in the pond in prior years when it didn't go dry!


----------



## Latestarter

Probably more than enough to support the heron, raccoon, and other predator (of tadpoles) population.   It's a good thing really, that you are supporting the food chain for everyone.


----------



## RollingAcres

Like an all-you-can-eat tadpoles buffet. 

Bruce please don't tell DD1 I said that.


----------



## Latestarter

That's RIGHT Bruce... don't TELL her... let her come here and READ it!


----------



## Bruce

I think it best she not read my journal 



RollingAcres said:


> Like an all-you-can-eat tadpoles buffet.
> 
> Bruce please don't tell DD1 I said that.


That heron was coming to the buffet daily for quite some time. I bet it didn't tell its friends about all the free food. It has been around again of late, don't know if it is getting into the shallow water or just attempting to "tadpole" from the edges.


----------



## RollingAcres

We had a heron stopped in our side yard last week but I couldn't get a pic of it.


----------



## farmerjan

Believe me, a little mud will not deter the heron.  I'm sure that for as many as have been moved, it has gotten that many or more for it's lunch.  They will actually stand on the edge of the concrete cattle water troughs, and grab the goldfish that we put in them .  When we had drought type conditions several years ago and the spring had trickled to nothing, I caught the d******d heron actually standing in the trough cuz it was down to about 6 inches from 2 1/2 feet deep.  They will wade in some pretty deep water, and mud is not a big deal although they prefer their food to be "clean".


----------



## RollingAcres

farmerjan said:


> They will actually stand on the edge of the concrete cattle water troughs, and grab the goldfish that we put in them .



Goldfish in water troughs, that's cool.


----------



## Bruce

Keeps the mosquitos at bay.


Hopefully the frogs and tadpoles will lay low when the heron comes around. Whether I had dug it or not, PRESUMABLY it will have water in it again. Without fish and frogs I think we would have a hellashish mosquito problem. We have plenty of seasonal insect eating birds but no way they could keep up with a pond full of mosquito larvae and the nasties that hatch from them. And they don't show up so early that the mosquito horde would not have already started.


----------



## CntryBoy777

One word......DUCKS!!!.....


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry Fred... IMHO, ducks aren't the answer (by themselves)... They aren't going to get 100% of the larva, and they make a HUGE mess! So you trade off one benefit for a rather nasty detraction... Just MHO...  Some mosquito fish will make a huge dent as well and provide food for other animals. Go to the local bait shop and buy some live minnows and release them in the pond. Maybe go fishing and catch a few small crappie/sunfish and release them. A couple catfish will help keep the bottom clean(er).


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well now....I know they aren't the "end all" answer and there are some factors that can be controlled, in order to lessen the mess. If there is any barley grown up that way....Bruce could always get a bale of barley hay and make "barley balls" out of it and just toss them in the water and it will do more to control the skeeters than everything else combined....for the 2-3 months that he has skeeters there. Some bat houses would help too....


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> One word......DUCKS!!!.....
> View attachment 52351


Only if you promise to come deal with the winter water issue!!

We do have a bat house, don't know that any bats ever live there. I suspect not because we would likely see them coming out at dusk. I would LOVE for them to populate it. There was one bat that found its way into the wood stove about a month ago. Came down the chimney but could not fly straight up to get out. The chimney is a metal one external to the house so I took the clean out cap off the bottom and the bat disappeared.

Don't know if anyone sells barley straw, don't find any with a google search. Apparently it is good for algae control. 

I don't know what kind of fish "Adam and Eve" are. Probably something gotten as LS suggests, from a bait shop. I don't know if they are native or not.


----------



## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> for the 2-3 months that he has skeeters there


Hey that's 2-3 months too many if you ask me.


----------



## CntryBoy777

RollingAcres said:


> Hey that's 2-3 months too many if you ask me.


Says the lady from Malaysia....


----------



## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> Says the lady from Malaysia....



In my defense, I've live here in the US longer than I've lived in Malaysia.


----------



## Bruce

And I've lived in VT much longer than I lived in So. Cal. 39 years vs 23 years.

Tested the narrower wood holder today then moved a run from the little barn to the house. Not much left in the little barn and what is there is shorter stuff. Later the DDs and I split the wood I had cut a few weeks ago, stopped when the carrier was full to the "run" level. One of us wasn't complaining most of the time. Still some bigger pieces to split but I have to make another carrier and make the top for when they are on the porch landing. But, totaled up, I have only about 2 2/3 cords. Sure takes a lot of trees to make a cord!

DD1 moved 6 more tadpoles this evening. A large frog watch from the middle of the pond area while DW added water. Seems to be holding fine, now if we could only get some RAIN!!! We have the potential for .5 inches tomorrow and Saturday. But I'm not counting my drops until they fall, we've been shortchanged this year pretty much every time Mr. NOAA said it was going to rain.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I appreciate your offer, Bruce....but, I'm so slow now that I'd probably just freeze solid making a trip to the barn and wouldn't thaw out til May or June..........so, best to stay here in the south..........there is a bunch of hard work in a cord of wood for sure.....


----------



## greybeard

Don't get goldfish to populate your pond as skeeter eaters without checking with your state's fish & Game Dept. They're a species of carp and some states they are allowed as bait, others they are not because the state doesn't want them to get loose and in the natural environment. The do a good job in man made water troughs keeping larvae and algae down, but something keeps eating the ones I put in. 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one with bat houses but no occupants. Got plenty of bats tho, they just spend their resting time somewhere else.


----------



## Bruce

I wouldn't put goldfish in the pond legal or not, they wouldn't survive the winter. I'll need to find something that is native and will manage to live in near freezing water, or in the mud under the ice, or however these fish have managed to date . The pond, when full, couldn't have been but MAYBE 4' deep at the deepest part. Around here 4' is generally considered frost level. I figure they should be self sufficient, no desire to buy a bunch of fish every spring.


----------



## Latestarter

The live minnows you buy at bait shops are generally caught locally or originate from local populations. They should do well in the pond as long as it has water in it. Since it's basically empty right now, I would hold off till next spring as it might freeze solid this winter.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> The live minnows you buy at bait shops are generally caught locally or originate from local populations.


No.  Local bait catchers are too unreliable to provide bait shops what they need and when they need it, and there is too much danger of losing a whole tank of live bait if diseased minnows are brought in by some local guy in his 14 john boat. Exceptions would be saltwater bait like frozen squid and freshwater frozen shad, and live saltwater bait shrimp.
In Texas and many other states, they come from bulk fisheries and wholesale distributors like these, that provide bulk sales to local bait shops.
https://www.joneswholesalebait.com/  Sales to Oklahoma and North Texas
http://www.gollonbait.com/page/shipping-live-bait

Most of the minnows sold in Texas bait shops and local bulk distributors originate in Arkansas at:
http://www.andersonminnows.com/

https://www.google.com/search?biw=9...1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.sncc5ZOap1g


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## Bruce

I know that at least some of the bait fish are brought in from far away. Last year there was a problem with invasive species being brought in. Wouldn't be a problem if a person used all their bait but when they don't they just dump the extras in the lake. Bad plan.


----------



## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> I appreciate your offer, Bruce....but, I'm so slow now that I'd probably just freeze solid making a trip to the barn and wouldn't thaw out til May or June..........so, best to stay here in the south....



Don't worry @CntryBoy777 that's what the salamander heaters  
 are for, to thaw your-frozen-self


----------



## Bruce

We could put a harness on him and he could pull it around behind him.


----------



## RollingAcres

Good idea.


----------



## Bruce

Actually getting some rain today. Not sure what it will add up to and since I don't have a rain gauge I guess I'll never know. But it should add some water to the pond. Lucky tadpoles and frogs!


----------



## Pastor Dave

Well, if all else fails, maybe you'll get plenty if snow that can melt into a pond for you.


----------



## Bruce

It all helps! We've not gotten a ton of snow the past couple of years but no matter how low the pond got it was always full by the time the "permanently below freezing" temps hit. But then in the 7 years we have owned the place, we never had basically zero rain all summer. The pond always started to go back up in August.


----------



## RollingAcres

If we keep getting "no snow" for the winters up here, we better start thinking about moving down south!


----------



## Bruce

Yep! 2 years ago DW's brother had 5' of snow in his back yard in NH on the MA border. We had squat.

Funny thing is his wife wanted to live in that area so they would have less snow to deal with than farther north.


----------



## Mike CHS

We get very little snow but we get freezing rain a couple of times every year which pretty much shuts us down for a day or two on our steep winding roads.  If I can get out of my drive way I can get to town since the flat land starts at the edge of our place.


----------



## Bruce

Did get some rain yesterday. Shallow but at least there is more water. Tadpoles had been moved from the area on the left. Now it doesn't matter since it is all connected.

 

One of the residents
 

Had 50 MPH winds last night, power went out at 8. DSL down most of today


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Well I liked your post all the way to the end! I hope that’s all the damage that occurred!


----------



## RollingAcres

You must have gotten the wind we had yesterday.


----------



## Bruce

Yep, only damage is the time to re-stack it. No other issues around the house. Might bring some of it onto the porch, still have about 2 runs worth of space on the racks there. Of course the really dry wood is still standing, the stuff on the left of the 2 rows. That tree was cut 3 years ago though just split and stacked when my Dad and sister were here in June.


----------



## RollingAcres

Glad nothing else was damaged.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Kinda looked like a leopard frog, but mud and markings hide the pattern.........glad it was only your "labor costs" that took the hit....


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry about the blow down... Generally, it takes a pretty stiff blow to knock over a stacked cord of wood... & that looks to be a double stack, back to back. Good to see the pond having some water in it. Not much now but  you get enough so it doesn't freeze solid to the bottom over the winter. That may be asking a lot... But then I can remember some pretty big fall storms up in New England that dropped a heckuvalot of water and ruined all those pretty fall colors.  Still time...


----------



## Bruce

The back (close side in the blow over picture) was only half way end to end. What blew down was the other 1/2 cord on the front that had no "backing". Could be it was leaning north before the wind came up so not as sturdy as it could have been. I don't know if it has been out long enough to get properly dry yet. Maybe I'll bring a piece in and see if it wants to burn. If it does I'll put the fallen stuff on the porch. Had to start the wood stove this morning. It was 32°out this morning and 64° in the house, 3° warmer than the expected high for the day. Tonight and tomorrow should be similar.

Guess I'll be calling the oil people tomorrow. Tank is nearly empty which was my plan. I was hoping to replace the oil hot air furnace with geothermal but I can't find any HVAC people to do the work


----------



## Latestarter

You have a back hoe now... you can dig your own trenches to install geo thermal.


----------



## Bruce

It isn't the outside (which up here is drilled well anyway) it is the INSIDE. Need whatever machinery that takes heat from the ground water and moves it into the air ducts. And air duct modification when the furnaces are removed. And connection of the machines to the ductwork. Also the machine to use that same water to move heat into a water heater.

Test pieces of wood burned OK. DW, DD2 and I moved the fallen wood to the porch using the FEL. Seems to hold just over 1/3 run. DD1 was doing pre-calc homework so she got a pass. DD2 and I also moved some of the weird short cutoff pieces that were in the little barn to a large cardboard box on the porch. That stuff doesn't stack and doesn't work in the carriers. Still have some out in the little barn but no more room in the box. I'll burn that stuff first since we don't need to burn day and night and I can just throw some chunks in until the house warms up some. 

Supposed to get 1.5" of rain Tues/Wed.


----------



## RollingAcres

Just curious how much is oil up your way?

I filled mine already a few weeks ago. The price was the same as last year, which means it will probably go up from here.


----------



## Bruce

I'll find out tomorrow, likely pushing $3 I would guess. For propane I'm stuck with Suburban since they own the tank and they charge around, or over, $4 gallon. One reason I want to replace the systems with geothermal. Our solar panels generate more power than we use, better to put it into heating the house than paying Suburban their outrageous price.


----------



## RollingAcres

$2.69 here


----------



## greybeard

Oil is $71.54 here.


----------



## RollingAcres

??


----------



## Bruce

He is likely talking per barrel for crude, not for a gallon of fuel oil. Definitely wouldn't want to dump that in the tank for your furnace.


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah, even light crude oil wouldn't do the furnace any good.


----------



## Bruce

Big news!!! DD1 has been accepted at Mount Allison  She starts in the January semester. Now she has to ask the kindly Canadian government for permission to go to school there. The Study Permit should be "automatic" since she has been accepted at a qualifying school.


----------



## RollingAcres

Congratulations to DD1!
That's the one with a GF bakery near by right?


----------



## Bruce

Yep. There is also a larger one in Bangor ME which is about half way. She got 3 different loaves of bread at that one on the way home. Just over 10 hours driving time to Mt. A. not including stops or the 1 hour time change when you hit the ME/NB border.


----------



## RollingAcres

I'm happy for her!

Just a thought, when DD1 starts college, who's going to save those tadpoles from the "evil dad"?


----------



## Bruce

The rain?? Supposed to get more tomorrow. If not that, I guess DW will have to do it.


----------



## Ridgetop

Does the pond water drain/absorb into the soil or is it empty because of no rain for a year?  I think there is some sort of natural clay stuff you can coat the pond with to hold water.  I think it begins with G.  I herd somewhere tht rnchers use it in stock ponds to prevent the water from leaching into the soil.

Great story Greybeard!  DH laughed a lot.  Adding it to my funny stories for bridge club!


----------



## Rammy

RollingAcres said:


> I'm happy for her!
> 
> Just a thought, when DD1 starts college, who's going to save those tadpoles from the "evil dad"?



I was wondering about the tadpoles, too. Who's going to save the tadpoles?


----------



## farmerjan

The pond is going to get enough water in it for the winter, the tadpoles will all turn into frogs and by the time she gets home from college for a summer break, the pond will be full to the top and no longer a problem.  The heron will walk the banks and nature will resume the natural order of things. Maybe the groundhogs (woodchucks) can be dealt with in a sensible fashion and disposed of, not turned loose to plague some other poor person.


----------



## greybeard

I'm glad she got to attend college that has a gluten free bakery nearby. I could tell that was beginning to be a worry.



farmerjan said:


> The pond is going to get enough water in it for the winter, the tadpoles will all turn into frogs and by the time she gets home from college for a summer break, the pond will be full to the top and no longer a problem. The heron will walk the banks and nature will resume the natural order of things. Maybe the groundhogs (woodchucks) can be dealt with in a sensible fashion and disposed of, not turned loose to plague some other poor person.


One can only hope..


----------



## Latestarter

If I'm not mistaken, Bruce deemed it unfair to foist his woodchucks onto others and surreptitiously acquired the tool of lethal means while remaining somewhat "stealthy" in the noise department (air powered vice gunpowder). Said tool is kept hidden in the bowels of the barn and used secretively as and when necessary. Of course he needs to make sure any trapped vermin (not restricted to just chucks) is removed from sight/sound of the females in his family, so they are unaware that a trapped "harmless/lovable/cuddly/cute/etc." animal exists at all.


----------



## Bruce

@Latestarter is correct. In fact, I do my best to put the live trap where it can't be seen so no one can just happen to see something is in it and ask what I am going to do with it. In the past there were trips through the woods to the edge of the property where there are no houses for some distance.

I VERY much hope @farmerjan is correct!! It is supposed to rain again tomorrow, could be another 1.5".



Ridgetop said:


> Does the pond water drain/absorb into the soil or is it empty because of no rain for a year? I think there is some sort of natural clay stuff you can coat the pond with to hold water. I think it begins with G. I herd somewhere that ranchers use it in stock ponds to prevent the water from leaching into the soil.


Not sure if it was perking through or just evaporating. Hopefully I haven't screwed it up by digging it. It nearly went dry in 2012 (we bought the place Nov 2011) and has gone down every summer but we usually get enough rain to keep it with some depth and by August it rains enough to fill it back up. Not this year.



greybeard said:


> I'm glad she got to attend college that has a gluten free bakery nearby. I could tell that was beginning to be a worry.


It is a worry, having to avoid gluten is a big hurdle in life. She buys a lot of flours from Nuts.com (which is a safe site, unlike thinking you can get to Dick's Sporting Goods using just the commonly used short name ). Don't know if they ship to Canada.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Don't know if they ship to Canada.



If they don't then she can order them, ship to dad's house and dear dad will ship to Canada.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> It is a worry, having to avoid gluten is a big hurdle in life.



I can only imagine how difficult it is having to avoid gluten.


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> If they don't then she can order them, ship to dad's house and dear dad will ship to Canada.


Nah, dear Mom can ship them, she's a Post Office clerk.  If I don't feel like wandering out to the mailbox at night and putting the flag up, I stick it in the outside pocket of her purse. We call it the outgoing mail slot.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Nah, dear Mom can ship them, she's a Post Office clerk.  If I don't feel like wandering out to the mailbox at night and putting the flag up, I stick it in the outside pocket of her purse. We call it the outgoing mail slot.



Oh right, I forgot that your DW works there. Well guess dear Bruce is off the hook.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> If I'm not mistaken, Bruce deemed it unfair to foist his woodchucks onto others and surreptitiously acquired the tool of lethal means while remaining somewhat "stealthy" in the noise department (air powered vice gunpowder). Said tool is kept hidden in the bowels of the barn and used secretively as and when necessary. Of course he needs to make sure any trapped vermin (not restricted to just chucks) is removed from sight/sound of the females in his family, so they are unaware that a trapped "harmless/lovable/cuddly/cute/etc." animal exists at all.


Imagine it's thought processes......
_"Uh Oh, I'm trapped...but thank goodness this human is humane, using a harmless box trap instead of one of those claw traps or those awful conibears that heartless greybeard uses on my beaver cousins. Now, he'll take me down the road to my new home where I can cavort and dig holes to my heart's content.  "PFFT!" What was that noi..OUCH!! Gawd, I'm hit--MEDIC!!! ..oh no...the golden BB................stealthy and sneaky...goodbye all"_


----------



## farmerjan

Sorry, I missed that part about the "tool in the barn".  Good for you.

Talking about "humane live traps"   I keep mine set next to my moveable chicken"tractor".  I have mentioned in other posts that I have gotten A LOT of predators this year.  Well, have gotten 2 MORE possums in the last 10 days.  I'm pretty sure that makes 11 so far this summer.  4 coons,  and 2 skunks.  I am so tired of possums..... I know they supposedly eat things like ticks, and other stuff as well as clean up dead stuff, but when they find the chickens, they will dig under, eat the feed and kill the birds sometimes too.  Plus, I will wake up to the chickens making noises so even if they aren't actually bothering the birds, they are still in there.  Since the whole purpose of this moveable coop is so the birds have clean ground and grass regularly.... and the landlord goes ballistic if they are out loose.... they will have a different coop for the winter and can be locked in... but I had no thoughts that there was a colony of them.....


----------



## Ridgetop

Here are 2 stories you will all appreciate about catching vermin. . . .

An former acquaintance who couldn't bear the thought of exterminating the rodents in her house "they have the right to live" told us that she used humane rat and mouse traps.  Then she took the captured rodents to the edge of the patio and released them.  She couldn't understand why she was overrun with mice since she caught several a day.
Duh . . . 

Another friend was more aggressive about the gophers that were infesting his yard and garden.  Over a period of months he and his neighbor used lethal traps but one day over a couple (?) beers they realized that they were just driving them back and forth between their properties.  They began to coordinate their attacks.  After catching and dispatching all they could in their lethal traps, they resorted to pouring gasoline down the holes.  This flushed out more and they dispatched them with air rifles, etc.  Finally after several months they discussed situation over more beers and realized they had the little beasts confined to a large hole under a tree in our friend's yard.  Again, beer drinking seemed to play a part in their gopher hunting activities.  Deciding to eradicate the threat once and for all, they poured several gallons of gasoline into the gopher holes under the tree.  They decided they would throw a match in the hole and burn them out!  Luckily, our friend whose head for beer is legendary, came to his senses just as his neighbor struck the match.  The tree and house are still standing, and our friend does not allow his neighbor to go deer hunting with him.

I use barn cats for mice and rats, and my Anatolians have killed several raccoons.  I have no qualms about lethal methods considering possums, raccoons, and skunks carry rabies here.  Rats like to defecate in the feed barrels making the other animals refuse to eat the feed. 

I guess I am just a mean person.


----------



## Latestarter

Welcome to the "mean people" club


----------



## farmerjan

I am one of the "meanest" in the mean people group. I have barn cats, and they have finally made a big dent the resident rat and mouse population.  The owner of the farm where I live gets feed in bulk and stores it in "totes" so the animals are in it all the time.  It is a never ending battle.  I don't have house cats so in the winter I get some mice inside.  I catch alot on the sticky traps, take them outside and call "callie....here kitty...." and have 2 cats that will come pull them off if I hold the glue boards tight.  I live in a 1750's historic old stone house, nothing is "tight" and I am getting so ready to find something else, since he won't sell the farm as my son has asked.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Bruce deemed it unfair to foist his woodchucks onto others


To add to this, if I legally re-home them to my own property (the only legal way), they just come back. 1,500' isn't all that long a walk for a chuck even though it is "over hill and dale".

I think Mr. NOAA's prediction of 1.5" of rain for today turned out to be .5" or less


----------



## RollingAcres

We had about 1" of rain. I think more tomorrow. I can send you some


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## greybeard

Ridgetop said:


> Another friend was more aggressive about the gophers that were infesting his yard and garden. Over a period of months he and his neighbor used lethal traps but one day over a couple (?) beers they realized that they were just driving them back and forth between their properties.


This applies to varmints, pests, and predators off all kinds. 

_Never make your troubles, your neighbor's trouble._
Never.
Your neighbor(s) should follow the same adage.


----------



## goatgurl

I sure hope you get enough rain to save the tadpoles.  my rain gauge is busted but over the weekend we got a 5 gallon bucket 3/4 full.  ground is still saturated.  but its ok, we needed it.


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## Bruce

We are getting another .5" of rain today. There is plenty of water for the tadpoles and frogs at the moment, especially given how little they had for 2 months earlier in the summer, but not for the winter if we don't get a lot more. 

I've decided it is highly unlikely we will be able to put "Adam and Eve" back in the pond this fall and they will spend the winter in a bucket in the house. Fish need more than ice capped mud to live. Will be curious to see how big they get and if we can figure out what species they are to get them many friends in the spring.


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## CntryBoy777

A couple of things to be aware of.....fish will only grow to the size of their environment.....and at what level in the water is their preferred level.....these can make a great deal of difference in the size that they will attain.....just be sure to oxygenate the water they are in every once in awhile so they will be able to breathe.....


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## Bruce

Plenty of surface for oxygen in a 5 gallon bucket with two 1.5" (at least so far) fish in it. I gave them a plant from the aquarium so they had somewhere to hide. I think the largest of these fish I've seen in the pond were only maybe 3-4".


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## Rammy

On one hand I commend you trying to save Adam and Eve. On the other, if they don't make it, fish fryb.......Just make sure the daughter isn't home when you do it..............


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## Bruce

As long as they live until early January when she heads to New Brunswick for school! 
I don't think they will ever get big enough to bother with trying to eat them. Maybe the cats or chickens would be interested.


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## RollingAcres

Umm @Rammy Adam and Eve are barely enough as appetizer.


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## Latestarter

First couple inches of the mud might end up frozen as well... Hope adam and evan make it through the winter to be released in the spring.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I gave them a plant from the aquarium so they had somewhere to hide.


The plant will oxygenate the water to some degree...it's what plants do when they aren't busy falling on your fences, cars or houses...


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## Rammy

RollingAcres said:


> Umm @Rammy Adam and Eve are barely enough as appetizer.



Ever hear of sushi? (Jk)  Appetizers!


----------



## Bruce

Yeah but personally I'm not into raw fish. DW and DD2 are but I doubt they would eat those little things. Bones and all because if you took off the bones and skin there wouldn't be much left.


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## RollingAcres

No thanks on sushi for me as well.


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## Rammy

Geesh! Try to be helpful!


----------



## greybeard

put them in a big clean bowl of clean water and don't feed em anything for 24 hrs ..then wash each in clean cold water from your kitchen sink faucet.
chop off their heads, remove the gills and fry or bake them whole. down the gullet they go like little sardines..or stick them on top of the next gluten free pizza like anchovies..


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## Bruce

Yeah that would go over well, putting fish on an "emotional vegetarian"'s gluten free pizza.


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## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> $2.69 here


Got 100 gallons today. $2.999/gallon, just a bit more expensive than gasoline.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Yeah that would go over well, putting fish on an "emotional vegetarian"'s gluten free pizza.



Had to look up what an "emotional vegetarian" was.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...1211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind

https://www.womenshealthmag.com/food/a19941229/side-effects-of-vegetarianism/


----------



## Bruce

I made it up  Basically she is vegetarian not because she thinks it is healthier but because she doesn't want animals to die so people can eat them. She has to deal with the rest of us eating them anyway. Still sure she couldn't deal with us eating any animal she knew or saw personally. That said, she does know what happens to a lot of the cockerels at the big hatcheries since mostly people order female chicks for eggs. Somehow she deals with that. I don't ask questions!


----------



## greybeard

Don't forget to watch it thru to the PSA at the very end.





(I thought this way of doing a NY strip steak was blasphemy till I tried it......none better, but lots of trouble to go thru for just one steak.)


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Got 100 gallons today. $2.999/gallon, just a bit more expensive than gasoline.



I just checked my vendor's website, it's now $2.79/gallon. I got 150 gallons a few weeks ago(at $2.69/gal.) to top of at least one of the tanks. I have 2 tanks, one is full and the other is about 5/8. Hopefully it will last at least until end of the year. I don't have a wood stove, just the oil for heating.


----------



## Bruce

Not terribly big on crunchy fried stuff. When I do go to KFC I get the original, not the extra crispy.

Here is the pond after the rain we got recently. Note how nicely green  it is already. It has gone "up" a couple of feet horizontally. Of course that isn't at all like a couple of feet vertically.


 

And a question for you wood people. I cut 16" off the sugar maple that has been laying in the yard for 3 years to see how far the end cracking went. If too much, might as well cut it for firewood. No cracking at 16" in but there is a lot of "decoration". Wondering if this tree was cut into planks if that stuff wouldn't look rather ugly. Is this normal or is something going on that would make it not a great choice for building a trestle table?


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## CntryBoy777

The pond is looking good Bruce and it will probably do fine....even tho ya have been getting a half of an inch at a time, there is the runoff that adds to it....and once the cold hits, it will take awhile before it freezes 3-4' of ground....


----------



## Mike CHS

That decoration you refer to is called Spalted Maple from what I can of the picture. It's  a general description of any type of Maple that has been allowed to begin initial stages of decay, and then subsequently dried (preventing further decay).

That kind of pattern is really liked by folks that turn large bowls.  It's hard to say what kind of patterns you will find until it actually gets milled but it could be some awesome grain.


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## Bruce

So now I need a lathe so I can make 19" wide bowls??

Is that spalting likely going down the entire trunk? This end is just above where the tree branched out. Below that it is pretty uniformly 19" diameter and ~10'-12' long.


----------



## Mike CHS

It can and often is found in much of a tree but once it has changed back into the hard state it's pretty stable.  If you work it you might want to wear a dust mask since it is a fungus.   I have some pictures somewhere but evidently not on this computer of some bowls I did and it has a beautiful affect.  If it's been down 3 years it might be worth milling if you have a way to do it.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Not terribly big on crunchy fried stuff. When I do go to KFC I get the original, not the extra crispy.


Nor am I and when I fried the steak, it wasn't crunchy but I didn't use the same batter mix he did and I probably didn't have my oil as hot as he did either.
(I don't go to KFC....Prefer a local joint, Popeyes or Chik-Filet for me...I try really hard to avoid gas station chicken tho)


----------



## Bruce

No Popeyes or Chik-Filet anywhere near here. In fact I can't think of any chicken restaurants other than KFC that are around here.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> If it's been down 3 years it might be worth milling if you have a way to do it.


I do know a guy with a portable sawmill, not sure what he would charge to bring it over and cut the tree. It isn't like I have a few dozen trees to mill to make hauling it 14 miles cost effective.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> No Popeyes or Chik-Filet anywhere near here. In fact I can't think of any chicken restaurants other than KFC that are around here.


There is a Popeyes here but it's in a neighborhood i don't like going. No Chick-fil-a here either,  I wish we do.


----------



## Bruce

Saw the baby snapping turtle swimming across the pond today. I think the tail is as long as the shell.


----------



## CntryBoy777

He's probably wondering where the danged tadpoles are that he saw.....


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> I do know a guy with a portable sawmill, not sure what he would charge to bring it over and cut the tree. It isn't like I have a few dozen trees to mill to make hauling it 14 miles cost effective.


Can you take the logs to him?


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Can you take the logs to him?


He drives a Prius. They would have to be shortened significantly.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Can you take the logs to him?




I'm not sure I could even lift it into a truck with the tractor. That is one heavy log! It is an idea though, perhaps if I could get it into a truck - HIS truck. Since it is a single log it would likely be more cost effective than hauling the sawmill round trip. I'll have to call and ask about that. BUT I think this log is about 12' long (have to measure), that is a lot to dump in many pickups especially since a lot of them have only 6' beds.

Don't see the tadpoles in the pond. They are good at hanging out down in the mud and with so much more horizontal coverage they could be anywhere. Haven't seen any dead ones nor evidence of the heron so there should be > 50 in there excepting for the ones that may have turned into frogs. DD1 did see the start of legs on some that she moved. Do see some frogs now and then, about stepped on one when I went to see where the turtle ended up. Only know it was there because it jumped into the pond just before I stepped on it. Brown and green frogs are very well camouflaged.


----------



## Baymule

If he can move a sawmill, I bet he has a trailer an could put the log on the trailer. obviously your Prius Pick-Up needs a trailer hitch...……….


----------



## greybeard

Probably much easier to find a way to move a single log than to  move the mill as the mill is probably already set up and levelled where it is.  You don't have to pick the whole log up..just one end high enough to set the end on the back of the trailer, then go around with the tractor and shove it  the rest of the way on to the trailer.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> obviously your Prius Pick-Up needs a trailer hitch...……….


My Prius HAS a 2" receiver hitch! Though "towing is not recommended". It isn't wired for lights, I have a cargo tray. Went with the 2" figuring if I wanted an "attachment" it would be easier/safer to neck down to 1.25" than up to 2" if it came in only 1 size. 

I'm pretty sure his sawmill has wheels for transporting to job sites. Don't know if he has a trailer.


----------



## Bruce

The latest installment of "The wildlife in Bruce's Pond" is here.

DD1 saw a single tadpole, no legs. But that wasn't the confusing part. Now, along with the very young snapping turtle which came from ???? given I don't think there are any adults in or around the pond, DW saw a salamander today. I saw another one in a different part of the pond. Why is this confusing? Well, there were certainly no salamanders in the "mud pit" with the tadpoles and in the 7 years we have owned this place we have never seen salamanders in the pond. So where they heck are these critters coming from??


----------



## Latestarter

Now see? You've cleaned up the pond and improved the environment and you're zoo species list is increasing!


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## Bruce

Ah, that must be it! Location, location, location. Everyone is telling their friends about the renovated neighborhood!


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## CntryBoy777

It is like the "Field of Dreams" movie....if ya build it they will come!!..........most aquatic species are not restricted to a body of water, but are mobile and will travel about searching for the proper environment.....they could've been in some of the scoops of mud that ya removed and have found their way to the larger watering hole......


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## Bruce

Maybe, or maybe they came from the natural wetland north and downhill from the pond. I should go there and see if there is even any water in it. I usually don't go near it because it is normally very squishy fairly far out and into the field, not a place a person wants to walk.


----------



## greybeard

Salamander was there.you just didn't see it while you were mucking about in the pond.  They bury themselves in the mud, sometimes pretty deeply. We found one about 2' long when this pond was originally dug.....the local paper ran a picture of it because they are rare to find that big here.


----------



## CntryBoy777

If ya find a hellbender....don't think ya have found a prehistoric life form....


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## Baymule

Improving the habitat.....upgrade to the real estate.....tell all your friends! Go west young salamander!


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## Ridgetop

Proud to be a member of the "Mean Club".

Most standard pickups have an 8' bed.  4x8 - the size of a standard sheet of plywood.  If you load it sticking up over the tailgate and put a red rag on it, it should be legal to drive in the pickup with 4' sticking out.  Just be careful to tie it in really well.  We carry 12' lumber all the time in our pickup like that.  We carry 16' moldings by loading them through the rear widow and then having them hang over the tailgate.  You can't do that with a tree trunk though!  LOL 

I think the grain would look gorgeous on a tabletop.  You will probably polyurethane the top too to prevent heat, water food stains which will keep the grain looking fabulous.


----------



## Bruce

I see a lot of trucks with 6' beds. 

Measured the tree. it was about 16' before I cut off the top 16". 24" diameter at the bottom. 19" just before the branch out. The top most piece that I cut off originally didn't split well. A lot of it wanted to slough off in relatively small pieces, slightly punky. That is the very light wood in the prior picture. Next piece down did the same thing. Even farther down only the center looks real solid, wouldn't have gotten much usable lumber out of it. 

Good thing I waited until I had a tractor to cut that tree (though that isn't the reason it wasn't dealt with earlier). I needed the power of the tractor to lift up the ends of the log to get some 6x6's under it so I could cut it into rounds. Of course my little 10 ton electric splitter can't handle rounds that big so I'm having to split them in half with a sledge and wedges before I can even think about hefting them up on the splitter.


----------



## Ridgetop

So it sounds like the wood wasn't any good as lumber.  No need to take it anywhere. 

6' beds are getting popular with crew cabs since the truck stays shorter than a standard bed with a crew cab.  My son has 2 trucks one is a standard bed and one is a short bed.


----------



## RollingAcres

My truck is a short bed


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> The latest installment of "The wildlife in Bruce's Pond" is here.
> 
> DD1 saw a single tadpole, no legs. But that wasn't the confusing part. Now, along with the very young snapping turtle which came from ???? given I don't think there are any adults in or around the pond, DW saw a salamander today. I saw another one in a different part of the pond. Why is this confusing? Well, there were certainly no salamanders in the "mud pit" with the tadpoles and in the 7 years we have owned this place we have never seen salamanders in the pond. So where they heck are these critters coming from??



Pretty soon your place will be a wetland/wildlife sanctuary.


----------



## Bruce

Saw Al last evening returning from delivering a couple of round bales up the road. Asked if he had the 25 squares I had requested when I returned his call regarding mowing the fields. Seems he hadn't caught that request and no he didn't have any since he only got 1 cutting this year. Did I mention we had a drought all summer?  No rounds either. He said he would check this morning with a couple of guys he has coffee with. He called back this morning and said he went out and re-counted the hay in the barn (he delivers all year as needed to people up the road that don't have enough storage space) and he had 4 extra rounds. 1 round ~= 10 squares so I said I would take 3. 

I didn't want to put them up in the drive bay, too hard to manhandle given the boys are down in the bottom. But the boys don't have access to "their" stall since after they moved in they decided they wanted to sleep in the alley and pee/poop in the stall. I've been putting 4 squares down there for use, refilling as needed. He asked when I wanted them. I said any time since I didn't have to move a bunch of stuff out of the drive bay to get the trailer in. In typical Al fashion, he said he wasn't doing anything this afternoon, would that be OK. I said yes; he said I'll be there in 15 minutes. Al brought the rounds down to the north end of the lower part of the barn to the open double doors and we put them on pallets in the stall. Used my tractor to carry the pallets down of course, sure does make things easier!

PHEW! Wasn't looking forward to finding other hay. Still have 6 squares from last year so I'll move those down maybe 3 at a time to use first. 

Got some rain overnight. Might get another inch tomorrow.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure glad that all worked out for ya....that would not have been good to need hay and couldn't get any...........hope ya have some water for the pond....but, be careful....once started, some can bring much more than was inteded....


----------



## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> ....that would not have been good to need hay and couldn't get any



He could always drive down to me and we can load a round bale of hay on top of his Prius to bring home. I can spare a bale.


----------



## Bruce

Hey thanks @RollingAcres! I'm not sure 400 pounds will fit on the rear cargo carrier, guess we'll have to heft it up on the roof racks. I'll start slouching down as I drive home and the roof collapses on my head.


----------



## Rammy




----------



## farmerjan

What is the towing capacity of the prius?  You do have a receiver that a towing bar and ball can go in if you have a cargo carrier,  correct?  Have you ever considered one of the TSC type trailers  which usually do not have alot of tongue weight, especially if it is balanced right;  for all the carting you do?  It would save alot of wear and tear on your car, which I agree is a very tough little car;  and you could then haul something like a round bale or even some of the large "squares" that are in the 3x5 to 4x7 sizes.  Every baler makes them a little different.  But what I am saying, if hay is not available from the guy you usually get it from, and if I remember he delivers, then you would have options.  Sure, new, those trailers are in the 1,000 to 2,000 range, but if it takes some of the pressure off the car and extends it's life..... you would find a multitude of uses for it a I am sure.


----------



## goatgurl

if you look around you can probably find a trailer like that used.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> 1 round ~= 10 squares so I said I would take 3



You either have really big square bales there or really small round bales.

One round bale here = approx 1000lbs or around 21  forty-five or fifty lb sq bales.


----------



## Ridgetop

Is there a reason why you don't want a truck?  It seems you really need one.  You could look for a used one.  If you only use it for the hauling jobs and the Prius for all other transportation, you won't burn that much gas.  We only use our truck for hauling and our small car for general transportation.  We have a 1999 Ford 350 diesel dually crew cab with an 8 foot bed.  It gets good gas mileage even when hauling fully loaded with our 5th wheel long range driving, especially if we keep it to 55 mph when towing.  We have about 260,000 miles on it so the diesel is just broke in.  We are looking for a second one now (used) so we can have 2 tow vehicles.  DH wants the 7.3 diesel so between 99 and 03 - oh yes and no blue additives to the diesel.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> You either have really big square bales there or really small round bales.
> 
> One round bale here = approx 1000lbs or around 21  forty-five or fifty lb sq bales.


You can get big rounds and big squares here as well but for a lot of people a 1,000 pound round bale is beyond unusable because they can't move it. Not everyone has big tractors and a hundred head of cattle or horses or whatever or the ability to take 1,000 pound rounds off a delivery trailer. Al makes ~40 pound small squares and ~400 pound round bales and delivers (2 rounds at a time, front and rear of the tractor) but ONLY to people on the road. I've not seen anyone else delivering hay other than people carting a pickup truck load of small squares. 



farmerjan said:


> What is the towing capacity of the prius?


It doesn't have one. The owners manual only says "towing not recommended". That doesn't mean it COULDN'T pull something. The car weighs just under 3,000 pounds so you wouldn't want to haul anything really heavy. And of course the brakes aren't designed to stop a big load trying to push you down a hill. But I'm sure one could tow a relatively small trailer relatively short distances. 



Ridgetop said:


> Is there a reason why you don't want a truck?


Yeah, I would hardly use it and it would cost many MANY thousands of dollars used. 



Ridgetop said:


> We have a 1999 Ford 350 diesel dually crew cab with an 8 foot bed.


You don't have salted roads, no rusting out. Anything "cheap" or that old here would be pretty rusty.



Ridgetop said:


> It gets good gas mileage even when hauling fully loaded with our 5th wheel long range driving, especially if we keep it to 55 mph when towing.


Define "good" gas mileage in a diesel truck, infinity miles on zero gallons of gas?  My sister had a Suburban that got maybe 14 MPG on the highway whether it was hauling just the driver or 4 people and the 30' travel trailer. Too much engine for "commuting". Funny since the vehicle was originally built to haul dead bodies, sure didn't need a big engine or towing capacity for that, just an enclosed back at least 7' long. It's kinda like the ER, costs minimally $350 on our insurance for a hang nail because they have the ability to deal with massive auto accident trauma. But the cost is spread over every patient, no consideration of the effort to deal with their immediate problem.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> You don't have salted roads, no rusting out. Anything "cheap" or that old here would be pretty rusty.



That is true. The 2 vehicles we have now were purchased from Oregon. DH flew there and drove them(not at the same time) back.


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah... driving them both at the same time would have been a serious challenge!


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Yeah... driving them both at the same time would have been a serious challenge!


Or serious talent.


----------



## Bruce

I'd like to meet the person who can drive 2 vehicles across country at the same time, not towing one of them with the other!


----------



## CntryBoy777

What if they were on a flatbed trailer hooked to a big truck, being hauled across the "fruited plains"?......


----------



## Rammy




----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> l but for a lot of people a 1,000 pound round bale is beyond unusable because they can't move it.


your tractor tho, will handle a 1000lb round on the back, & one on the front tho not necessarily at the same time & I do know a guy, that says (and has posted a pic of it with the round bale in it) he hauls a 4x5 round bale in the back of his s'burb, but he's from Maine. 

( don't have 100 head of cattle or horses either)


----------



## Bruce

Must be a tight fit getting a 4x5 into the back of the Suburban.

Yes my tractor will easily lift a 1,000 pound round bale. Then what? It was enough effort getting the three 400 pounders into the alpacas' 10x12 stall (*) for storage. I doubt a 1,000 pounder would fit through the stall door. And I'd not store the rounds in the upper part of the barn where I had the small squares. I don't trust the drive bay on the uphill side to support the 3,200 pound (without loader or backhoe) weight of the tractor. It MIGHT but I'd hate to wake up to the sound of the tractor crashing down out in the barn.

* they were evicted soon after they came because they decided the alley was for sleeping in, the stall for peeing and pooping.



CntryBoy777 said:


> What if they were on a flatbed trailer hooked to a big truck, being hauled across the "fruited plains"?......


No that would definitely be cheating!


----------



## farmerjan

Am I the only one who noticed that @greybeard has a picture?  If I could ever get something to take pics with that I could learn how to post....but my cell phone is an ANCIENT and basically INDESTUCTIBLE FLIP PHONE and my digital camera I can't seem to figure out how to use it to upload and my house computer is also on an ancient operating system.... time to get into the modern world one of these days...


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

farmerjan said:


> Am I the only one who noticed that @greybeard has a picture? If I could ever get something to take pics with that I could learn how to post....but my cell phone is an ANCIENT and basically INDESTUCTIBLE FLIP PHONE and my digital camera I can't seem to figure out how to use it to upload and my house computer is also on an ancient operating system.... time to get into the modern world one of these days...



Yes, I noticed his new picture as well.  And if that is him in the picture, it looks like he cut his beard close or shaved it off completely.  Mr @greybeard, sir?  Inquiring minds want to know.

And you, Miss @farmerjan, it is time for you to get your picture on BYH, too!  Find a neighborhood kid who can take your picture and then send the picture to you in an email.


----------



## Latestarter

Brilliant STA! Exactly! I'm sure her son is computer literate and has a "modern" phone if not also a camera. No more excuses Jan!


----------



## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> Am I the only one who noticed that @greybeard has a picture?  If I could ever get something to take pics with that I could learn how to post....but my cell phone is an ANCIENT and basically INDESTUCTIBLE FLIP PHONE and my digital camera I can't seem to figure out how to use it to upload and my house computer is also on an ancient operating system.... time to get into the modern world one of these days...


As I stated elsewhere, I use a several yr old Verizon LG flip ph that looks like





The avatar is something I was messing around with this morning after going thru some old photos and scanning to my hd and to removable disk. 



 

The picture is about 4-5 years old, probably around Easter as I usually shave clean for Easter and again at Christmas. I sent that car to a new home in Feb 2016 so I know the pic is at least 2 1/2 years old.
However, I am currently clean faced, as I had a funeral to attend Monday.


----------



## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> and my digital camera I can't seem to figure out how to use it to upload and my house computer is also on an ancient operating system



If your camera has an SD card (most do) you can buy a card reader rather cheaply IF your computer doesn't already have that ability and you can upload digital photos to your computer right off the SD card. I have to do that on my Sony digital camera because I lost to cord for it and it is a proprietary cord that you can only get from Sony.....kinda...I 'could' get one off eBay if I was desperate.


----------



## Mike CHS

That flip phone looks like mine except mine is a Samsung


----------



## greybeard

Assuming you can both take pics and text on your flip phone, you can also send a picture from your phone to your desktop or laptop computer via text message.  The 'phone number' you send to, is simply the email address you use on your computer.


----------



## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> That flip phone looks like mine except mine is a Samsung


My wife has a Samsung smart phone. I have to 'fix' it for her several times/month. 
She can't grasp that it is actually a little computer and she needs to leave settings alone.


----------



## Mike CHS

My phone is a definite no frills.  When I got that  I was still working in a Classified Navy environment and we weren't allowed any device that would record audio or video.  Even that basic they had to be left in lockers at the door as we entered.


----------



## Bruce

My cheap old flip TracFone has neither a camera nor an SD card.


----------



## greybeard

Most flip phones don't have an sd card but most digital cameras do.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah, my camera does. My old Olympus camera had a Smart Media card. Try to find one of THOSE suckers!


----------



## Baymule

I like my Apple I-phone, but I am nowhere near as good on it as my daughter is. She and our SIL are a thousand times smarter with the I-phones than we are. But I like it and I manage to muddle around on it.


----------



## greybeard

I'm very computer/media/electronics literate, tho not nearly as much as I once was, and tho I can use a smart phone and it's apps and built in functions quite well I simply can't see paying what amounts to what a good weaned calf is worth for something that is mostly used just to jabber talk on and play games on...and, has to be upgraded/replaced every 2-3 years.
Go to a family gathering or public place where people used to socialize in their immediate surroundings and you will see what so-called  "smart" phones have done to the world.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, it is like most things in life....it can be used for good, and it can be used as bad.....it also depends on the definitions that those 2 carry with the one that turns the phone on. Out here where we live....sometimes it is our only means of communication. Ya can get a decent phone for $150....ya don't have to have the bells and whistles....but, texting is certainly easier on a touchscreen than that push the button so many times for a letter.....when I gave up my flip phone, my thought to myself was....why'd ya wait so long?..and just what was ya trying to prove?.....I was resisting change.....


----------



## Latestarter

I see the new ads on TV... get your new "whatever" phone 10 and save $400! Yeah and in the small print underneath, you need to agree to a 2 year contract for service, it must total more than $89.00/month for the plan, and if you stop the service you will owe a prorated share of $1,200.00+ for the phone! TWELVE HUNDRED DOLLARS! That's 2 and a half mortgage payments!! No fricken way! I have a Samsung G-6. I'm now 4 iterations "behind the times" and that's fine with me. I use the phone for GPS as required, and for weather radar pics when my internet is down due to storms. I rely on that for tornado awareness. Can't do those things on most flip phones. I can take pics if I really need to as well. Might be appropriate in the case of an accident or things along that line.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We use Cricket....no contracts....2 "unlimited" lines for $90/month....1 phone would be $50, I believe....they use the AT&T towers for service....


----------



## Mike CHS

I don't use a phone enough to justify the expense of one of the smart phones although Teresa has and uses one very much.  I only have a few people that I like to talk to on the phone and although my phone has a text feature, I don't use it to send and I won't answer one sent to me.  I will read it but just won't answer so most that know me "assume" I got the text.  I still prefer voice when communicating.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I don't use a phone enough to justify the expense of one of the smart phones


Same here



Mike CHS said:


> I will read it but just won't answer so most that know me "assume" I got the text.


Bad assumption here. I don't turn my phone on unless I'm away from the house, we don't get a reliable signal and the phones die hunting for it. But for whatever reason, TracFone doesn't seem to send the texts or voicemail through when the phone is turned on. A few months ago I turned it on and had 3 voicemails. Of course the system ASSUMES you have the phone on at least daily and doesn't give the date, just day and time. 2 of the voicemails were from someone I would want to talk to so I called him. Turns out he had called and left those messages about 2 months before.



Latestarter said:


> TWELVE HUNDRED DOLLARS! That's 2 and a half mortgage payments!!


You mean almost 1 payment  But I agree, they really do want to suck your wallet dry and the small print likely gets some people.


----------



## Bruce

We got rain most of the day Tuesday. Pond got some water. Still really GREEN water but water none the less. Maybe I should have put marked stones at 1 foot depth intervals down the slope of the pond so I would know how deep the deepest part is.


 

The boys were looking over my shoulder. They like to hang out in the rain, excuse their "hairdos"


----------



## Latestarter

The alternative to stones would be to go drive a tall stake into the bottom now, and mark the various depths on it so you can see at a glance. Not too deep to wade into now, but might become so soon...


----------



## CntryBoy777

The algae bloom may provide the food for what is there to survive thru winter....and it is good to see the Boys out and about.....


----------



## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> The algae bloom may provide the food for what is there to survive thru winter



I'm not sure if they can survive the frozen tundra up here.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Nature is full of amazing creatures and they are well equipped and designed to survive in their natural environment....


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah... <shrug> not always... The pond was completely disturbed so it's gonna take a spell to re achieve "balance" and in the meantime can be a real mess/toxic... There are additives you can get that will keep the algae in check until the pond balances out. They are supposed to be non harmful to fish/animals. I don't know enough about it to make any kind of recommendation... But I AM glad to see that it's starting to fill for you.


----------



## greybeard

Disturbing the 'muck' ,  coupled with runoff from the grassy areas is what caused the oxy imbalance. 
The muck, was mostly nutrient rich sediment (high nitrate fish and other animal poop) as well as decaying plant life, which now being 'loose' is feeding the microscopic algae and they are reproducing in great numbers. Nitrates, sunlight, and nutrients is all it takes. 
Because of the pond's size, filtering the algae out is probably not a workable solution. 

I've seen most that cleared up on their own...others that never did, even after years.


----------



## Baymule

Now you need some hogs in there, to wallow and seal it up for you.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> The alternative to stones would be to go drive a tall stake into the bottom now, and mark the various depths on it so you can see at a glance. Not too deep to wade into now, but might become so soon...


Already too late, I didn't go all the way down to rock (if there is rock at the lowest point). Boot sucking mud/clay down there!

The pond has ALWAYS gone green all summer. Some years I've used the big plastic leaf rake to pull globs and globs of stringy green algae out when the wind blew it to the north edge. The algae seems to die back some when we get a fair bit of rain but comes back.

I'm sure I've disturbed the balance given all the muck I pulled out, just hoping there is still "sealing" stuff on the bottom where the ledge is not. Of course I have no idea if the ledge continues under the bottom all the way across. I ASSUME it does since it appears to rise back up some distance past the edge of the pond. I certainly hit it putting in the NW corner post, only got 2' down.


----------



## Latestarter

Get a used small bucket and fill it with concrete with your "yard stick" stuck into the center. You can rig a "hoop" on top of wire and then raise it up with the bucket and reach out and lower it into the center of the pond. No sweat, no strain, no getting sucked to the center of the earth by muck. ETA I was referring to using the tractor bucket to reach out with...


----------



## Bruce

I guess if I marked the stick in feet starting at the bottom of the bucket, and the bucket didn't sink into the bottom too much ... that would tell me how deep the water is now. I guess from that I could figure out the other 1 foot depths as the water  rises.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya can mark it like a rain guage....just be sure to use a color ya can see without squinting......


----------



## Latestarter

© google images https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...UlTa_cV9QX&ust=1538864146248221&ictx=3&uact=3

Of course, marked in feet (unless you WANT it in metric) and if the bucket is wide enough, you don't need it to weigh 80 pounds... all you'll really need is about 20 pounds... enough to keep it from floating (if you use wood), or being lifted by ice or blown over by wind. It shouldn't sink all that much. Is there a metal fabricator near you that can punch out a strip of 1/4 or 1/2 inch aluminum or even steel about 5-6 feet long? Have them bend the bottom 2-3" over at a 90° angle to give something to hold under the concrete... Then measure up from the bottom of the concrete base in 1 foot increments. Maybe paint a "stripe" in florescent or glow in the dark orange at 5 foot so you can quickly tell if above or below that level and by ~ how much...


----------



## Bruce

If I have a bucket with a lid I could fill it with rocks, dug out plenty of those along with the muck.


----------



## Bruce

Hmmm, the pond is now too wide to reach the middle with the backhoe. Shallow but "wide". I guess I don't really need to know how deep it is though I think it is fair to say "at least 2' deeper than it was before" (whatever that was when it was full).

Dinner tonight (@greybeard close your eyes !!) 
"Vegetarian chili" except it came out more like "Great Northern Bean, onion and corn soup". Cilantro on top. Not bad if you think it is soup. Not at all good if you think it is chili.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Hmmm, the pond is now too wide to reach the middle with the backhoe. Shallow but "wide". I guess I don't really need to know how deep it is though I think it is fair to say "at least 2' deeper than it was before" (whatever that was when it was full).


Maybe it's time to put those wetsuits and goggles on and get in the pond Bruce. 



Bruce said:


> Dinner tonight (@greybeard close your eyes !!)
> "Vegetarian chili" except it came out more like "Great Northern Bean, onion and corn soup". Cilantro on top. Not bad if you think it is soup. Not at all good if you think it is chili.


I've once tried a spicy vegetarian chili (it was during a chili cookoff at work), it was actually quite good.
I remembered reading in someone's journal(can't remember if it's @Wehner Homestead or @Latestarter 's journal) , a discussion on what should and shouldn't be in chili(like beans).


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Hmmm, the pond is now too wide to reach the middle with the backhoe. Shallow but "wide". I guess I don't really need to know how deep it is though I think it is fair to say "at least 2' deeper than it was before" (whatever that was when it was full).
> 
> Dinner tonight (@greybeard close your eyes !!)
> "Vegetarian chili" except it came out more like "Great Northern Bean, onion and corn soup". Cilantro on top. Not bad if you think it is soup. Not at all good if you think it is chili.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...1211/youre-vegetarian-have-you-lost-your-mind
https://www.newsweek.com/your-vegetarian-diet-may-be-making-you-sad-706214
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/08/09/vegetarian-depression-meat-study/

This one definitely has some "issues".
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/21/vege...she-claims-she-was-served-beefburger-7965786/

_"Got in her personal space.."?
 "shouted at me"? _

In a pub...wow.
Poor little thing...don't ya feel just a little sorry for her?
_uh...gee wow..uh lemme think about it a bit...no!_

_"Miss Marshall said: ‘We don’t want to go back there again. They shouted at me and left me with nothing while everyone else ate."_
No they didn't. They left you with a vegetarian burger, you wittle entitled snowflake.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

It’s was my journal! We had great fun discussing chili!!!


----------



## Bruce

Today was "Change the hydraulic fluid and filters" day. 

Found the 5 drain bolts, including one that wasn't marked in the manual but I figured if there was a need to drain by the right side wheel, there must be a need to drain the left side as well. 
Started with the single centerline bolt into the biggest thing I had, a large rubber tub thing with handles. I think some people use these to feed animals. Since it is pretty soft sided I had to use a 12V oil transfer pump to get the fluid into an empty 5 gallon pail. Well ALMOST, it was about 5.5 gallons (manual says total fluid is 8.7 and I presume that is not including what is in the hoses.
Drained the 2 bolts that were behind the centerline one
Couldn't get the socket on the left side wheel bolt, there is a big filter in the way. It didn't want to come off easily so did the right side first. 
Took off the smaller filter on the right side. Couldn't get it out of the space because it was blocked by the backhoe frame and the rod that goes from the brake pedals to the rear brakes
Figured out that pulling the easy to get to cotter pin on the front of the rod wouldn't drop the rod far enough to get the filter out so I got the hard to reach back one out and of course it broke. Got the old filter out, new filter in and the pin holding the brake rod is currently kept in place with a piece of wire until I can get another cotter pin
Used a ratcheting box end wrench to get the drain bolt out of the left side.
CAN NOT get the big filter off. Doesn't matter how hard I pull on the filter band wrench, which now has broken welds and needs to be replaced. Must be the same guy that cranked the oil pan drain bolts WAY too tight put this filter on. 
So now the tractor has no hydraulic fluid and is out of action until I can get that filter off. Does anyone have a good suggestion for how to get a filter off? Any preferred kind of wrench? There isn't a lot of space between the backhoe frame and the filter. Not a whole lot of "swinging room" either. Don't know if one of the "end of the cartridge" type wrenches will work and didn't think to see if I have socket wrench extenders to be able to connect to it and be able to crank on it.


----------



## Latestarter

I'm convinced there are some really sadistic bast@#$% on vehicle assembly lines... When I went to do the first oil change on my truck, the filter was on so tight I shredded it trying to get it off and ended up having to use a cold chisel on the metal top that actually screws onto the oil feed pipe. Once the filter body is punctured, you can't drive it to a shop to have them do it...


----------



## Rammy

Shoot it. Oh, wait, nevermind. Jump up and down and scream?  No. Wait. Kick the tractor?  No.
Im out of ideas. 
Just teasing you, Bruce! 

I know getting something done and it wont cooperate is frustrating. Hope you figure it out soon.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah I'm holding off on the time honored method of punching a screwdriver through it. I think I'm better off not changing the filter than ruining it and potentially STILL not be able to get it off.

BTW, the filter wrench was NOT slipping. Tight as could be but the torque clearly isn't being applied in a useable fashion. I have no idea how someone could get it on that tight.


----------



## Latestarter

three words... pneumatic impact wrench


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya try turning it the other way?.....may have a left handed thread on it.....sometimes a glaze can form on those things and there can be a vacuum created.....just some of the things that I've faced a few times.....


----------



## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> Ya try turning it the other way?.....may have a left handed thread on it.....sometimes a glaze can form on those things and there can be a vacuum created.....just some of the things that I've faced a few times.....



Left threads..on a hydraulic filter?
No. 

On modern filters, it's not the threads that are tight. 
The 'o'ring or rubber-like (usually neoprene) gaskets swell up due to the heat from the hydraulic fluid and makes filters difficult to get off. The swollen membrane acts like a brake pad between the metal face of the filter and the metal base the filter seals against. Once the 'o'ring/gasket material swells, it never goes back down to origninal thickness, thereby ensuring a good seal.


----------



## Bruce

The tractor is back in service. Bought a new band wrench, a strap wrench (the only kind I think I can use to get the fuel filter off due to tight access), a pliers style wrench and a 93mm end cap type wrench. 
Started with the end cap, it didn't want to go on more than minimally and slipped so I tried the band wrench. Clearly this one was starting to flex in a bad way so I tried the pliers style. No good, not enough room. The strap wrench slipped and I'm not surprised by that. 

So I went back to the end cap wrench and persuaded it to go on with the use of a hammer. Couldn't use an extension on the ratchet, 3 point connector in the way thus no way to use the ratchet from up above behind the rear tire. Couldn't get it to move with the 12" ratchet so made a 12" cheater from a piece of pipe. Comfortably (NOT!) situated under the tractor I managed to get it to loosen up. Now I'm FAR from the strongest guy in the world and laying under a tractor without much "swinging" room isn't the best for torque but the amount of force needed to get the filter to free up was ridiculous.  Then I figured out I had to thread it most of the way back on to get the ratchet off the cap, it was forced into part of the frame as the filter backed out.  I guess it is good that those filters are (intentionally or not) pretty well protected with all the frame parts in the way but I had to use the pliers style from the back to loosen it up again before I could turn it by hand. And then I had to use the hammer to get the cap wrench off the old filter. I used the band wrench for final tightening. Yeah I know, "hand tight". I don't have that much grip especially when there is no way to get your hand wrapped around the filter, I went about 1/2 to 3/4 turn after the gasket was causing friction on the housing.

Oh yeah, and I replaced my bit of wire on the brake rod pin with a new cotter pin.


----------



## Rammy

Yeeeaaaaahhhhhh!!!!


----------



## greybeard

The filters are installed OEM on the transmission and engine prior to the 'big pieces' being fitted together. They don't intentionally make the frame as a protectant, they just worry whether there is clearance or not. Most tractors, there is no 'frame' as the driveline components' cases ARE the frame.


----------



## Bruce

Too bad the people at the factories don't have torque wrenches.


----------



## RollingAcres

Yay! Now Bruce can get back to work! lol


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Too bad the people at the factories don't have torque wrenches.


Torque wrenches do not help when a rubber type gasket or 'o' ring is involved.
Ambient temperature on any given day cn and does change how much compression the material sees as well as how long the threaded nipple actually is in length due to expansion.  It's why all filters are installed '.X' amount of turns after contact. Anyone that has ever had a filter begin to leak after that threaded nipple got hot from the oil flowing thru it, and expanded in length will tell you it is far better to have it too tight than too loose. As the nipple expands in length, it's threads push the filter out away from it's mating face a few thousandths and lessen the compression of the neoprene sealing material=leak.

There are lots of things that are fastened with other than a simple torque value because of expansion and/or stretching. Many head and exhaust studs for instance are initially installed to a specified torque, then "tighten 'X' degrees" more, usually 90 degrees. It's called TTY--torque to yield.


----------



## Rammy

RollingAcres said:


> Yay! Now Bruce can get back to work! lol




Lookout, tadpoles, here comes @Bruce!


----------



## Bruce

Nope, pond work is done. Occasional rains are putting water in it. Plenty for the tadpoles .... unless they have already become frogs. Then NO tadpoles. Supposed to get something over .5 inch tomorrow. Maybe I'll remember to take a picture on Friday.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, from the sounds of it, it seems it's holding water... That's a really good thing.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Supposed to get something over .5 inch tomorrow.



Rainy here too.


----------



## Bruce

Big doings today ... I set the 2 solar arrays to their winter angle. Yep, big whoop 

This is what the pond looked like this morning.
From the south. That "peninsula" on the lower right side is a hunk of ledge I had to either go around on the left or over the top with the tractor so I know when it starts to get water over the top it is about 18" deep at that spot. 

 

Southeast


Northeast
 

North
 

I also finished rearranging/removing stuff from the barn bent where I can put the tractor. Not lots of spare space but I have the post hole digger, rake and tractor in there tonight. The forks are on the tractor, the loader bucket is outside. Don't have that much room. As it is the backhoe dipper is lifted some and turned to the left side and JUST clears the rake attachment point. The ends of the forks are a couple of inches inside the barn doors. Next time I want to use the backhoe I better remember to pull the travel pin or I'll be getting a Zinger award when I can't figure out why the boom won't move up and down.

Speaking of the doors, there are 2 of them on roller track and each is only about 4.5' wide. The tractor is 5' wide so I have to open both doors. There are no doors on the next bent (no idea what someone was thinking when they covered over the opening for a small people door however long ago!) but that bent isn't wide enough for both "tractor bent" doors to open all the way before they run into the doors on the next bent, the one with the drive bay. So to get the tractor in or out of the barn, I have to move all 4 doors left. The drive bay doors only have to be moved a couple of feet. So that this is perhaps a wee bit less confusing, here is a picture of the drive bay bent when I was fixing the floor support. The diamond on the right door is the left door of the "tractor bent".


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sounds like there is some redesign looming in your future....anyone that drives a Prius isn't a "just make do" kinda guy....


----------



## Bruce

Oh I have a LOT of "make do". I don't play the lottery and if I did I wouldn't win 

If the barn ever gets rebuilt (major $$) the drive bay will be strong enough to hold the tractor. And the people door into that inaccessible (other than crawling under the drive bay) bent will be put back in.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad we have something else in common....if I had every ticket to the lottery except 2, I still wouldn't win.....they aren't sold here, closest is in Tn....play on occassion, just for kicks....in all the times that I have played, I think I have had 1 number just one time....never anymore than that....


----------



## Latestarter

Sure would be nice to win it about now... The megamillions is over 1/2 a billion (548 mil) and the powerball is 314 million. I'd even be willing to split either with another winner


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> in all the times that I have played, I think I have had 1 number just one time....never anymore than that....


Last year the Powerball was up real high. DW and I each bought 1 ticket. Each had 1 number from the draw. I think that tells us the odds of US winning are closer to 0% than 0.5%


----------



## greybeard

The bad math tax. It's reached that high because of all the people that DIDN'T win..


----------



## Latestarter

OK, and now it's even higher thanks to those who donated...  MM @ ~654 mil for the next drawing on Tuesday.  Since I'm short of cash this month, I'll try to wait till it breaks a billion before buying tickets.


----------



## Baymule

The Redneck Retirement Fund--designed to reduce the dollars flowing into a real retirement fund. LOL LOL


----------



## Bruce

But Bay, When you DO win, you fund your retirement account!  Actually, from what I've read people who win pretty big (like a few million, not half a billion) are in no better shape financially after a year than they were before they won. 

Cut a number of trees yesterday. As I was cutting one I noticed it had some old barbed wire in it a few inches above where I was cutting the back side. Didn't see it when I was cutting the wedge, I was on the other side of the tree. Sure glad I didn't hit it when I was cutting the wedge! 

One, of course, tipped in the general direction I wanted then got hung up on another tree at probably no more than a 15°angle. I think it is about a 16" to 18" diameter trunk. The butt end of the trunk and hinge solidly on the stump. Took the come-alongs out today, hooked a chain to an uphill tree. No good. Figured the hinge wasn't going to pull up against the vertical projection of the stump so changed tactics. Took the chain and come-along to a tree about 90° from the direction I want it to fall. Cranked. Nothing. 

OK, time to bring in the big guns. Took the tractor off to the side I wanted to pull toward but still out at the edge of the field. Added the 30' 10,000 pound tow strap to the 14'  3,900 pound logging chain and the 10' of lighter chain. That put the strap to chain connection just at the tree I was pulling around. Not unexpectedly, one of the the roughly 800 pound Interlocking spring snaps "unbent" and let loose. Guess I need some more 5/16" chain and properly sized hooks so I can see if I can pull the butt sideways off the stump. Can't think of anything else to do. I suspect that trying to cut any part of the butt end would not end well (unless I had a 30' chain saw bar ) and cutting the tree that is holding up the widow-maker (not one I want to cut anyway) would be guaranteed suicide. Yep, sure would be nice to have a logging winch.

So far tree 2, Bruce 0. I've been pulling with the massive "D" ring on the pallet fork support. Plenty fine for skidding logs out down hill. I don't think I want to put any more pressure on it than I did when the spring snap let go. I don't imagine that is great for the loader hydraulics. Thus I will learn a new skill - removing the backhoe. Then I can pull with the tow bar.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sorry ya are having difficulties like that....is it just leaning on the other tree or is it caught in a branch or in a fork?


----------



## Bruce

Branches to branches. Who knows, could be in a fork once the butt can be moved. Last time I had this problem I was able to pull it backwards until it fell.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Now ya need a big gust of wind to rock it.....


----------



## Bruce

We are supposed to have gusts up to 35 MPH tomorrow night. But that sucker isn't moving, rock solid. Maybe if I under cut the trunk in 16" lengths it would weaken enough to come down on its own ... in 5 or 10 years.


----------



## Mike CHS

That's what I had to do on those big trees that came down by our garden last winter but I blocked up just past where I was under cutting the trunk so I could control when it let go.  I didn't expect to get all of the way through and didn't but it dropped enough that I was able to cut a large enough V at the top so it finally let go.


----------



## Bruce

I ASSUME by "top" you mean just below your blocking? Not sure how I would do that but I can think about it. It is a good size tree and probably at least 60' tall. I'll do a little measuring and figuring. Coupon for 10% off at TSC came today so I'll be replacing the garden tractor battery (no more jumping every time I need to blow snow this winter) and getting more chain.

I ran across Al at TSC. If I can't get the tree down he will bring his tractor with the logging winch over and pull it. Not a today job though, it is raining.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad ya got a neighbor willing to help ya out....getting more water for the pond, too....sounds like a productive morning for ya.....


----------



## greybeard

If I can't pull it off the stump easy,  I just start on the little end(s) and fire up a chainsaw.



 
Took me most of 1 day to get this one cut down and piled up because of it's size and precarious nature. I had already begun on it when I took this photo but it originally was big enough, that I could easily see it from a google earth view..looked like a big spider from above.


----------



## Bruce

I suspect it is easier to start on the little end when it is on the ground rather than 60' up. I don't think I want to climb the other tree and start cutting!


----------



## Bruce

Here is the tree as I found it today.

   

It wasn't this poorly supported when I left yesterday so the heavy winds Fred sent last night must have set it a-rockin'
 

I was able to easily pull it off the stump .... and plant it in the ground. I tried pulling from the direction where I was standing for the first few pictures. No good, just dug in. Tried pulling it uphill. No good, it crammed up against a large buried root. I tried pulling in the opposite direction of the first try. No good. I called Al. He came over after a bit with his logging winch. Took some mighty pulling to drag the butt through the ground but it came down.

I lied it was only 14" at the base. But it was 60' tall to the broken off top. No idea where that ended up, it was rotted. But the diameter at 60' was still 5".

Some of the smaller wood I had cut to 8' lengths before I called Al. No sense driving back up to the house "empty forked".


----------



## RollingAcres

Glad you had some help with the tree. That was some heavy wind last night.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad ya was able to get it down....and safely too!!.....sorry the wind didn't do the whole job for ya.....


----------



## goatgurl

i'm sure glad you were able to get that tree down without anyone getting hurt.


----------



## greybeard

I would have just cut the other &*^#!@ tree down.


----------



## Bruce

The one it is leaning on? The one I would be standing next to when they both dropped at the same time? I'm pretty sure I would have to leave a suicide note before I started.


----------



## Rammy

Note would read....Im sorry I killed the tadpoles. Please forgive me!  Just teasing!


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> The one it is leaning on? The one I would be standing next to when they both dropped at the same time? I'm pretty sure I would have to leave a suicide note before I started.


Done it lots of times. I'm still here. 
2 entities involved. A man and a tree. One can think and plan, one cannot.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Done it lots of times. I'm still here.
> 2 entities involved. A man and a tree. One can think and plan, one cannot.


Well, too late for you to come do that for me


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Well, too late for you to come do that for me


I never get to have any fun anymore...I like raising cattle but killing trees is my passion.


----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> I like raising cattle but killing trees is my passion.


You and "tree huggers" will not be BFF


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> I never get to have any fun anymore...I like raising cattle but killing trees is my passion.


You'll create the Great Texas Desert!


----------



## Bruce

Came back from dinner after dark last night. Happened to see something shiny in the parking area. Large bolt with a 10 on the head. Around the area my car was parked earlier but way too clean to have come out of the bottom of my 9 year old car with 140K miles. So I figured tractor even though I haven't run the tractor through there for a couple of weeks. 

This morning I was going to go out to work in the woods but figured I better see if there were any similar bolts on the tractor. Looked here, there, everywhere ... then spotted the matching bolts on the right rear tire. OK, must have somehow lost one on the other side. Nope, lost THREE and the other 3 were backing out. Darn good thing I didn't go to the woods figuring I'd deal with the mystery bolt after. 

I was going to put the one I found back in but it wasn't totally properly lined up. Got the 20 ton jack under the frame and lifted a bit to take the weight off. Thought I'd best put some loctite on the bolts. Now can't find the bolt and washer I found before (still can't!!!!!!   so I backed out one bolt and though it still had about 3/4" of thread on the end, they were all mashed up between there and the head. Must be the wheel was wobbling just a bit and flattening the threads. The other two were the same. Called the dealer to see if they have them in stock but they don't. So they ordered them, will be in next week. I tightened up on the 3 bolts and backed the tractor back into the barn.

Now one weird thing is there was a washer on the rim, just sitting there. You would THINK that a rotating tire would lose the washer or the bolt would be really near by. Could not find any other bolts. The other weird thing is the 50 hour service says to check the wheel bolt torque. And I DID!! They were all fine. Every bolt on the other 3 wheels are still tight. Why did those loosen up? I have about 5 hours to go before the 100 hour service when I am supposed to check the torque again. ASSUMING the wheel hadn't fallen off (I would NOT bet on that with me traipsing up and down the bumpy field on 3 backing out bolts!) I would have noticed the missing bolts then. 

I believe I missed the Zinger ™ award by --> <-- much!  So all you tractor owners, check those wheel bolts!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Oh my Goodness!!....that had to be a real stunner, but sure glad ya caught it before it was a catastrophy for ya....I have such a time with bolts, nuts, washers, and stuff that I got a telescoptic magnet to run thru grass, dirt, and around objects to find something metal that is lost or dropped....even used it when fencing to pick up dropped staples, so I didn't deal with a flat tire or injured hoof on an animal....hope it was just a bizarre happening and not something ya deal with very often.....


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> single digits isn't the big problem, double digits BELOW 0°F is the BIG problem
> My "plan" is to tuck the empty hose into the insulated box since the rain barrel is round and the box square, there is vertical space in the corners. I just have to make sure the hose can drain out before I do said tucking. A piece of pipe insulation couldn't hurt since it doesn't take long to freeze non moving water at those temps! I think the stock tank heater only goes up to 40° so it isn't like there is a lot of residual heat.


Bruce..in my old days, we took hot composting manure  and packed around piping during winter.. that was in new hampshire , boxed it in from weather and pipes never froze....just a thought for you to ponder.


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## Mike CHS

I haven't lost any wheel bolts but I have had bolts disappear from my front end loader enough that I do a visual around the whole tractor before taking it out.


----------



## Bruce

B&B Happy goats said:


> Bruce..in my old days, we took hot composting manure  and packed around piping during winter.. that was in new hampshire , boxed it in from weather and pipes never froze....just a thought for you to ponder.


I built the insulated box last winter, worked fine. Of course there were a couple of changes, like the spigot on the rain barrel points down so I had to raise the barrel up and cut out some foam board to be able to attach the hose.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> then spotted the matching bolts on the right rear tire. OK, must have somehow lost one on the other side. Nope, lost THREE and the other 3 were backing out. Darn good thing I didn't go to the woods figuring I'd deal with the mystery bolt after.


So close......


----------



## Bruce




----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> This morning I was going to go out to work in the woods but figured I better see if there were any similar bolts on the tractor. Looked here, there, everywhere ... then spotted the matching bolts on the right rear tire. OK, must have somehow lost one on the other side. Nope, lost THREE and the other 3 were backing out. Darn good thing I didn't go to the woods figuring I'd deal with the mystery bolt after.


Good thing you decided to check!


----------



## RollingAcres

So Bruce, I saw a couple of them the other day and they have more black on them. Does that mean we're in for some severe winter?


----------



## greybeard

RollingAcres said:


> View attachment 53565  So Bruce, I saw a couple of them the other day and they have more black on them. Does that mean we're in for some severe winter?


With that much black, it probably won't be too bad for you. You should be able to get some mid winter relief by taking a trip to McMurdo Sta for a week.


----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> With that much black, it probably won't be too bad for you. You should be able to get some mid winter relief by taking a trip to McMurdo Sta for a week.
> 
> View attachment 53567



We'll take a trip to Texas, should be nice and cool there during mid winter.


----------



## Mike CHS

It's summer at McMurdo right now so it isn't too bad and I've been there quite a few times.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce, I knew you had a screw loose, just didn't know you actually lost not just one, but three!


----------



## Bruce

I have 3 loose and 3 LOST. I'm more far gone than you thought. Which will come first, the 6 replacement bolts or the new splitter. Sure would like to have all bolts on the tractor before I use it to unload from the delivery truck.


----------



## Rammy

Good thing you found them before you used the tractor. Can you pick those parts up or do you have to order them? Im sure you will be double checking all the bolts from now on before you use the tractor. Hate to think what would happen if you got into trouble because something came loose!


----------



## Bruce

Double checking and installing with blue loctite! Fortunately I called the tractor place and asked if they had the bolts rather than driving down ASSUMING they did. They do not carry them, had to order them. They should come in this week. The splitter is being delivered Thursday morning. The bolts were ordered Friday afternoon.


----------



## Latestarter

That tractor has turned out to be a real evolution for you. It's kept you busy in more ways than one and on your toes... So how's the pond doing? You haven't said anything about it recently. Is it holding water for you?


----------



## Mike CHS

Did the say if that was a common problem?  Everyone I know here has tractor(s) and I haven't heard of anyone having that going on.


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> Double checking and installing with blue loctite! Fortunately I called the tractor place and asked if they had the bolts rather than driving down ASSUMING they did. They do not carry them, had to order them. They should come in this week. The splitter is being delivered Thursday morning. The bolts were ordered Friday afternoon.




Which one will come first?  Kind of like what came first , the chicken or the egg..............


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Double checking and installing with blue loctite! Fortunately I called the tractor place and asked if they had the bolts rather than driving down ASSUMING they did. They do not carry them, had to order them. They should come in this week. The splitter is being delivered Thursday morning. The bolts were ordered Friday afternoon.


What did the holes in the wheel look like....still round or oblong shaped now?


----------



## Bruce

The holes in the wheels didn't seem unusually shaped, the threads on the inside looked OK as well. But since you mentioned it, I will pay particular attention to that when I get the new bolts. If they don't look properly round, I guess I'm in for a BIG expense replacing the rim! And they would have to come get it, no way I'm going to try to get that big, loaded tire off and move it even 1". Wouldn't fit in my Prius anyway I don't think.

I find it odd that such a big tire is held on with 6 not all that long flat head bolts. Not even tapered like the nuts for the lugs on my car to help center them and give a surface for the rim to "sit" on. Nope, just bolt threads.

Had a bit of a DOH! thinking about it. I had gotten out the 20 ton hydraulic jack to lift up the tractor to tighten, as much as was reasonable with bolts that have mostly flatted out threads, the remaining bolts. Bet the backhoe stabilizers would have done the job just as well if not better. And no looking around for the right size pieces of 2x12 to put under the jack.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> Did the say if that was a common problem?  Everyone I know here has tractor(s) and I haven't heard of anyone having that going on.


Don't know. The guy at the tractor place didn't comment on it. I would THINK it is not very common though as I said, the manual does say to check the wheel bolt torque at 50 hours and at intervals of 100 hours. I happened to see a "Tractor Mike" video the other day specifically talking about checking torque on various bolts. He had an incident some years back where he was blading snow on a driveway and someone hailed him to stop. Apparently some tractors have the "outside" bolts plus more on the inside that hold the hub onto the rim. All but two of the hub to rim bolts had fallen out.







Latestarter said:


> That tractor has turned out to be a real evolution for you. It's kept you busy in more ways than one and on your toes... So how's the pond doing? You haven't said anything about it recently. Is it holding water for you?


Live and learn with new stuff!! 
It has rained on and off, raining again some today and yes the pond is holding water. Not sure what was up with the pit I made not holding water unless everything around it was so dry it just sucked the water in. I imagine the "mud pit" where the tadpoles and 2 fish were surviving held water better since it was mostly the clay/sponge material that I was digging out that had slid. The pond is probably about 4-5" deeper than the last pictures I posted.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce, i have been reading some of your comments on diffrent members posts....you really make me laugh, ya got that yankee humor that really is appreciated  by another yankee, lol....enjoy your vermont winter, lol i will enjoy my florida winter....hate it when it gets down to the 60's...it really has the damp cold factor that goes down to the bone....ba ba ba bad....bad to the bone


----------



## Bruce

Right now I'd be happy if it got up to 33°! 

My splitter was delivered today. Sure is easy to unload such things with pallet forks on the tractor. Bonus: It came on a pallet with braced sides! I was trying to figure out how to create something to toss rounds into for later splitting rather than just dumping them on the ground. I can take the top off and lift the splitter out with the tractor leaving the rest of the crate intact. I can add a couple of pieces of wood to the sides of the crate and won't even need to have the buck saw right near where the splitter will be used because I can move the "rounds cage" to the splitter same as I can move the drying racks. Of course in an efficient world, one person would be cutting rounds next to the splitter, another would be putting them on the splitter and another would be moving the split wood into the racks. Don't have that though. I also got quite a few heavy duty 3' zip ties. Don't know what I'll do with them just yet but I bet they come in handy some time.


Must have picked up the Yankee humor over the last 39 years. I grew up in So. Cal, just south of L.A., didn't move until after college. But I'm glad if I add a little humor to your life.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> move


You crack me up ! If you can live in Vermont for 39 years... that makes you not only a yankee...but a dammm good survivor. ..congratulations  to you !


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> I also got quite a few heavy duty 3' zip ties. Don't know what I'll do with them just yet but I bet they come in handy some time.


3' zip ties? Dang, didn't know they make such long zip ties. I've seen the foot long ones.


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## Bruce

B&B Happy goats said:


> You crack me up ! If you can live in Vermont for 39 years... that makes you not only a yankee...but a dammm good survivor. ..congratulations  to you !


But NOT a woodchuck. Always will be a flatlander. Of course so is my wife and daughters even though they were born here. DW's mother was born in NY, her parents were both born in Switzerland though they met in NY.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> But NOT a woodchuck. Always will be a flatlander. Of course so is my wife and daughters even though they were born here. DW's mother was born in NY, her parents were both born in Switzerland though they met in NY.


Well, good luck with the wood splitter, we moved ours here with us, used it one season, now getting ready to post it on CL....


----------



## Rammy

B&B Happy goats said:


> You crack me up ! If you can live in Vermont for 39 years... that makes you not only a yankee...but a dammm good survivor. ..congratulations  to you !


You think HE's funny, wait til you read @Baymule posts. Not to mention @RollingAcres! Alot of very funny people on here, not to mention alot of very knowledgeable ones.


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## RollingAcres

Rammy said:


> You think HE's funny, wait til you read @Baymule posts. Not to mention @RollingAcres! Alot of very funny people on here, not to mention alot of very knowledgeable ones.


Oh thank you, thank you very much!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Ya all are funny....i really want to read all the stories, much more interesting than tv...and some smart creative people, wish i had found this BYH (back yard heroes ) last year !


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## Bruce

Probably not so much need to burn wood in Florida. 

@Baymule doesn't have a specific journal, you'll have to find her  and  posts in other's journals or her topic specific threads. She really is a hoot.


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## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Probably not so much need to burn wood in Florida.
> 
> @Baymule doesn't have a specific journal, you'll have to find her  and  posts in other's journals or her topic specific threads. She really is a hoot.


Bruce.... no don't  have a need for more heat here in the swamp...so am selling wood splitter, i have started a journal ...you can pick on me anytime, lol


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## Rammy

Yeah! Dont be drinking anything while reading her posts. You will spew it all over your screen. Alot of funny people on here.


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## Bruce

You are apparently limiting who can see your profile thus I can't stalk you and find your journal!


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## Rammy




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## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> You are apparently limiting who can see your profile thus I can't stalk you and find your journal!


B&B Happy goats journal....come a stalkin....by the time you get here you may need snow shoes, lol


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## Baymule

Here I is. In Texan that would be Heah Ah is!


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## Bruce

B&B Happy goats said:


> B&B Happy goats journal....come a stalkin....by the time you get here you may need snow shoes, lol


Can't stalk what I can't see!


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## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Can't stalk what I can't see!


Did you go to journal  section ?  I am there, peek a boo, lol


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## B&B Happy goats

Baymule said:


> Here I is. In Texan that would be Heah Ah is!


Well howdy, they said id have to hunt  superwoman down to find her...saddle up let get this party rollin !


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## Baymule

B&B Happy goats said:


> Well howdy, they said id have to hunt  superwoman down to find her...saddle up let get this party rollin !


Saddle up and let's RIDE!


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## Rammy




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## Latestarter

B&B has her profile set so nobody can read it. You don't need her profile to see her journal, it's listed in the journal section
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/b-b-happy-goats-journal.38563/unread


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @B&B Happy goats,

Regarding


Bruce said:


> @Baymule doesn't have a specific journal, you'll have to find her  and  posts in other's journals or her topic specific threads. She really is a hoot.


I suggest you start with the posting of hers that brought me to BYH: "I Hate Green Briars!"

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Can't stalk what I can't see!


Ok Bruce...I quit hiding...here i is...how's  the weather up yonder ?


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## Bruce

Cold. Apparently it did hit 34° today. I saw 28° when I left the house at 11:15 and it was the same when I came back at 5:45.  Sunny today, made 40 kWh of electricity. Been a pretty lousy month for solar all in all. 

I read your journal since @Latestarter was kindly enough to post the link  I SUPPOSE I could have found it by clicking on Watched Forums but I am in a rut, only click Watched Threads.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Cold. Apparently it did hit 34° today. I saw 28° when I left the house at 11:15 and it was the same when I came back at 5:45.  Sunny today, made 40 kWh of electricity. Been a pretty lousy month for solar all in all.
> 
> I read your journal since @Latestarter was kindly enough to post the link  I SUPPOSE I could have found it by clicking on Watched Forums but I am in a rut, only click Watched Threads.


No, i think i had changed something on my profile that hid it by accident....i feel for you guys with the weather, i left new england in 1998 for good, can't  do month after month of grey skys, rain, snow forever and ten minutes  of summer. The humidity here really is wicked bad, but i don't  have to worry about dry skin !  Do you get winter depression  ? , i did....so much better living in sunshine for me...post some snow pictures when its a fresh snow please....that's  so pretty...from a distance. Have a great evening


----------



## Bruce

Hopefully we won't have any significant snow for a couple of months  Of course we could always get in some pattern and get snow and more snow and more snow. Probably will since I still have a fair bit of outside stuff to do.

We actually get a fair bit of winter blue sky other than November (which technically isn't winter). DW calls it the brown and gray month. No leaves left, lots of cloudy days, not much snow.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce are you getting this Nor'easter rain? It's cold and rainy here today, right now 37 degrees. Will be raining all weekend, pooey! I've things to get done outside .


----------



## Bruce

Yep our rain started around 2. Now it is "confused", doesn't know if it should rain or snow. There is a good chance of rain until Tuesday, then again on Wednesday.

What do y'all think about these 3 bolts that were holding the rear wheel on the tractor?

 

Yeah me too!!! Sure dodged a bullet there. Got the new bolts yesterday, installed this morning with blue Loctite. They all threaded in easily so the threads in the hub are undamaged. Here are the holes in the rim and yes it does look like some are elongated a bit. @greybeard how bad are they, what do I need to worry about?
The first 3 are the ones where the bolt was missing.
   

   

And here is the new splitter in its crate. I have since put the tow bar and table on it. Generally looks OK but the instructions show two places to grease with a gun. Figured it wouldn't hurt to make sure they have grease before I use it so I took off the plastic "case" and did one. The other is physically impossible to get to. Not sure what they were thinking. Probably the classic case of someone building one part not knowing what it will be put in to.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> @greybeard how bad are they, what do I need to worry about?


Not too bad.
2 things keep a wheel in place so it doesn't slip on the hub..

1. The wheel's  center hole that fits pretty snugly over the shoulder on the hub (or brake drum). If you have 2 opposite located bolts out of 6 that are tight enough to keep that wheel on the shoulder, it isn't going anywhere.

2.  There is as a matter of course always a little clearance between the bolt's OD  and the hole's ID, so there has to be something to prevent the wheels surface from moving within this clearance and that is also the most important aspect of torquing the bolts.... The bolts' torque results in a metal to metal clamping action keeping the wheel's ID against the flat hub surface. It's this clamping action, similar to how a disc brake pad works..that actually keeps the wheel in place. As long as you keep the bolts torqued to specs from here on out, you should have no trouble.

I have looked hard and tho I did find a similar report on a specific model  JD tractor, and Kubota  compact tractors are notorious for a 'clacking' noise coming from the rear wheels because of loose axle pinch bolts, I have not seen any indication that this is a widespread problem on your brand, tho it can happen on any make tractor. Everything needs to be checked after the first few hrs of operation. Temperature changes during first few hrs of operation alone can cause bolt elongation and consequent loss of torque. The wheel bolts thread into the end of the axle. The axle is inside a housing filled with oil, which gets pretty hot pretty quickly. The heat is transferred to the bolts. Heat equals expansion and expansion=elongation.....you get the picture.


----------



## Bruce

Thanks @greybeard, glad I don't need to replace the rim! In the future I will be checking wheel bolt torque far more often than the 100 hours the manual says! Probably never find a loose one again but I'm not taking chances! This one was too close - 1/2" of thread on 3 bolts, no good.


----------



## Bruce

Exciting day today. OK, not so much. Made French Toast for breakfast. Waited for it to stop drizzling which it did about 2 PM. Got the tractor out, stuck a pallet on it and loaded DW's snow tires, the torque wrench, impact wrench and compressor from the workshop and the jack from the drive bay. Took them to her car along with an extension cord for the compressor, got the pressure gauge from my car. Definitely better than carrying all those things individually. 

Started getting the tires ready by airing them up. The two I wanted to put on the front had 32 PSI so I upped them to the desired 38 PSI. First rear tire ... ZERO PSI  One expects some loss over a many month period but not zero. Sure glad I hadn't started taking tires off the car first. Put that one in the back of my car to take to Bill tomorrow. Other rear tire was at 28 PSI, upped it to 36 PSI. Got the front snows on the car. Also checked DD1's car, she aid her tire light was on. Front right was a little low at 35 PSI, right rear was only 27 PSI. Wondering if that is the one that had the sharp rock that caused a leak earlier this year. Will watch it and take it to Bill when I put the snow tires on her car later this month ... er next month.

Figured I should check the tractor tire pressures since I had the equipment out. Fronts should be 40 PSI, rears 30 PSI. Had to add some air to the fronts and the right rear but not too much. Left rear, the one that the bolts came out of, was at nearly 40 PSI AND even though I had the valve at TDC, when I was letting pressure out (the gauge has an air release) I got a lot of whatever they loaded the tires with. I don't know what it is but it isn't Rimguard. Had to put the gauge on one of DW's summer tires to blow the salty water out of it then put more air in that tire for winter storage. 

Put all the stuff back, got the empty wood drying/storage rack from the work shop and put it out by the stacked wood. left it and the pallet forks there and got the FEL. Filled that twice and deposited it on the porch racks that I had been pulling wood left over from last year and then I was out of time for the day. If it decides not to rain tomorrow I'll get another load in the bucket for the 1/2 filled 1/2 run rack on the porch then swap the forks back on and fill the empty drying/storage rack with stacked wood and stick it on the porch landing. Thus will begin the testing of that system. I did finish the roof for which ever rack happens to be sitting on the porch landing but I suspect I'll need some sort of wind screen to keep snow from blowing into the rack. Still need to make at least 1 more rack for this year, 2 would be better, so I have somewhere to put the logs I have already brought in from the woods when they are blocked and split.


----------



## Rammy

Arent tractors nice? Makes life so much more fun.


----------



## Bruce

There are certainly things that I can do now either much more easily or would not have done at all.

I likely wouldn't have brought out the tractor for the tire change bit if I didn't also plan to move wood. Doesn't make sense to get the tractor all warmed up just for that.


----------



## Mike CHS

I have a bunch of slabs that probably weigh 500 lbs that would still be sitting beside my driveway if I didn't have the tractor.  They obviously wouldn't fit in the FEL so I couldn't pick them up but I was able to push them down the hill.


----------



## Bruce

You need pallet forks Mike! You could easily pick up those slabs with forks. I am referring to standalone forks, not the bucket attached ones. Too much weight on those and you bend the bucket. Does your tractor have skidsteer quick attach on the loader arms?


----------



## Mike CHS

It does Bruce


----------



## Bruce

Then check with the finance committee regarding some QA pallet forks


----------



## Bruce

Wood moved.
View from the door (at the south end of the enclosed porch) to the dining room to the "wood access" door in the middle (sort of) of the porch. As you can see, there is a fair bit (and you are seeing only about 1/2 of it) stored on the porch. That was the method in the past. Stuff something over a cord on the porch in the fall when the wood is delivered and refill as needed and when the weather is decent.

 

Wood on the "deck" outside the porch as seen from inside.
 

View from the outside, the door we usually use to get into the porch and the house is on the right. The yellow sign to the right of the door says "Please put packages inside". 
 

Closeup from the outside. MAYBE that wood sitting there will dissuade delivery people from deciding that is the proper place to put packages.


----------



## Rammy

It wont. Once I came home and found a package ontop of my truck. Guess the guy couldnt take two steps to the right and put it on the side porch right beside the truck. Poor thing might of hurt himself.


----------



## Bruce

I know they are harried trying to get more done in a day than is reasonable. The UPS guy was generally good about putting the packages inside. The Fed Ex guy ... not so much. Leave them on the ground in the rain or snow, right in front of the door or just beside it. I had the sign made for him/them. Yet we must get "relief" drivers sometimes and indeed just last week found 2 packages where I just put the wood. I wouldn't have known they had delivered but I got an email saying they were. On the porch? No. Just outside the porch, no. On the landing for the stairs? Yep. I'm not even sure why they think that is the main entrance given the other one is closer.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Well bruce, our drivers sit them on the front gate post, no what the weather  and they know anyone going by can grab it....so for us we have to track our pkgs. And keep a vigil  on the day it should arrive..pain in the neck for sure. The pictures of your wood and your house look great...almost made me miss the wood stove smell,....then i got the grey sky, cold wind chill...ops, back to my abby normal self...


----------



## Mike CHS

Most of ours are pretty good but some need to find a new job. Often, the mail carrier will put a package on the front seat of a car in the driveway if it looks like rain.  They won't try to put one in our porch because of the dogs and I don't blame them.


----------



## Baymule

We have a gate across the driveway, so UPS, Fed-Ex and USPS_ never_ even try to come to the house. I have a pallet on the inside of the gate, in the corner of the fence and that is usually where they leave packages. They can just drop it over the fence. If it is rainy, they bag it up in plastic. I have met the drivers and they are as good as they can be. Once the Fed-Ex driver brought us a package with the wrong address, but he recognized our name and knew where we lived. If  I am outside when I see them drive up, i'll walk to the gate and they will hand me the package.


----------



## RollingAcres

Nice job Bruce and ready to take on those cold winter nights!

Our FedEx guy is pretty good. If we know it's going to be a rainy day and we're expecting the delivery, we'd put a sign on the door to have them leave the package in the carport (a few steps away from the door).


----------



## Bruce

I wish their online options for where to leave packages had an "other" box. Front door, back door, etc doesn't include INSIDE the enclosed porch.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce, i am suffering from alpaca  envy...would you create  mini ones for me ? Please...i would need more space for them ( am checking into some land that is owned behind me by my neighbor)......but mini ones would be sooo cool to have.....we have a guy about five miles from here that has a zebra and has been cross breeding with horses.....strange but interesting looking for sure...


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I wish their online options for where to leave packages had an "other" box. Front door, back door, etc doesn't include INSIDE the enclosed porch.


Or on TOP of the mailbox, 2 miles away, like the mail lady did.......


----------



## Bruce

B&B Happy goats said:


> Bruce, i am suffering from alpaca  envy...would you create  mini ones for me ? Please...i would need more space for them ( am checking into some land that is owned behind me by my neighbor)......but mini ones would be sooo cool to have.....we have a guy about five miles from here that has a zebra and has been cross breeding with horses.....strange but interesting looking for sure...


That would be just a bit difficult for 2 reasons:
1. Alpacas don't come in "mini"
2. They are both geldings

Consider getting some llamas, then decide on 'mini' llamas - alpacas! They aren't the same but are closely related.


----------



## Bruce

Last night - good cat or bad cat?

DD1 and I were in the living room doing our own things. Her cat came through the room running kinda hinky. He ran back and she noticed he had a mouse. Of course she started screaming at him to drop it, went through the lower part of the house trying to figure out where he went. The stairs are open underneath with an opening on both the mudroom side and the kitchen side. She saw him in there and crawled in. Note she is still SCREAMING for him to drop it. I was on the mudroom side of the stairs so he was kinda trapped. He did drop it. She screamed for DW to come help. Well no go:
1) DW was on the toilet
2) DD1 is likely the only human in the family who could get under the stairs with ANY ease. That is what she gets for being 100# and 5'2" 
She wanted something to pick it up with other than a piece of ribbon she found under there I got her a couple of paper towels. I asked if it was still alive, she didn't know, thought maybe it was in shock. She handed out to me, I tossed it out the porch door. Looked pretty dead.

So she gets over it, right? Um, no. Then she started the 3rd degree with the cat repeatedly and angrily asking him where he found it. "WHERE did you find the mouse!!" "SHOW ME WHERE YOU FOUND THE MOUSE" Right, like he understands one syllable of what she was saying. 

The good thing about this is that the cat didn't have a chance to crunch on the mouse, eat part of it and then barf it up somewhere for us to find in the morning.

I gave the cat lots of scrubs and praise after DD went to bed


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Yepper sure would be difficult  doing that with two geldings   thanks for the reply,


----------



## RollingAcres

Saw this video yesterday and I thought of you, not sure why since your boys normally avoid going near you
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1154090231382322&id=199098633470668


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## RollingAcres

Good cat and good Bruce for praising the cat!


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> not sure why since your boys normally avoid going near you


Because you feel sorry for me


----------



## Latestarter

Good cat 
Bad DD1  
Good Bruce ...  

She's (DD1) about to start college and she's chastising/questioning giving the third degree to a cat?    I'm actually a bit surprised that you didn't mention her getting angry at you for "throwing" the mouse out the back door, vice giving mouth to mouth and CPR and ensuring viability before GENTLY releasing in an appropriate "mouse friendly" area outside... or better yet, inside, where it could stay warm and dry... 

You don't say much about your DW, but I have to imagine she has to be a lot like your DD1... I mean, having "gotten to know you" kinda/sorta over time on here, I have to say: for a sensible sort, you must have not contributed much toward your DD1's genetics, so she must have gotten it from the Missus, I'm continually like: 
 How can she be so decidedly opposite you in so many ways?


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Because you feel sorry for me


Nah


----------



## Bruce

Opposites attract? Actually she isn't that much like DD1. I think a small minority of people are like DD1  I can not hope to understand where her "issues" come from. Certainly she didn't grow up with anyone, family or friends, who act similarly. And she only knows that I took it outside, she didn't see the "care" with which I tossed it out the door  and didn't ask if it was alive. I'm betting she knew it wasn't. 

So ponder this: It isn't OK for me to kill a predator that is killing my chickens because they are just doing what they naturally do. But the cat can't kill a mouse in the house. I guess in her mind the wild animal needs to find it's own food, the cats get fed plenty so they don't need to kill. 

DW doesn't mind eating vegetarian stuff but meat is fine, especially if it is beef, fish or bacon  She did let out a small shriek the other day when she was getting ready to leave for work and saw the half chewed mouse on the mudroom floor but that was surprise, not fear. 



RollingAcres said:


> Nah


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> I'm actually a bit surprised that you didn't mention her getting angry at you for "throwing" the mouse out the back door, vice giving mouth to mouth and CPR and ensuring viability before GENTLY releasing in an appropriate "mouse friendly" area outside... or better yet, inside, where it could stay warm and dry...



I was thinking the same. I actually made a  face reading that part


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


>


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> the cats get fed plenty so they don't need to kill.


The cat believes differently. They kill for the fun of it thru a primordial instinct. 
Cats are truly the most "off the grid" 'domesticated' animals in the world. 
I've seen dogs dropped off on the side of the road and they'll sit there hungry for 2-3 days waiting for that 'owner' to come back for them. Dropped off cats don't care one bit.....they walk into the woods and start hunting immediately.


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## Bruce

Yeah I know that the cats do not think the same as DD1, nor do the chickens. The girls will eat anything "meat" related: muscle, fat, gristle. They'll pick bones clean.

BTW, I am NOT going to give mouth to mouse resuscitation!!


----------



## Devonviolet

RollingAcres said:


> Saw this video yesterday and I thought of you, not sure why since your boys normally avoid going near you
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1154090231382322&id=199098633470668


Awww!  How sweet!!!  Now I want a couple alpacas!!!  I showed DH the video and said how cute it was.  All he said was, “NO”!


----------



## RollingAcres

Devonviolet said:


> Awww!  How sweet!!!  Now I want a couple alpacas!!!  I showed DH the video and said how cute it was.  All he said was, “NO”!


 I think my DH would say the same


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> Last night - good cat or bad cat?
> 
> DD1 and I were in the living room doing our own things. Her cat came through the room running kinda hinky. He ran back and she noticed he had a mouse. Of course she started screaming at him to drop it, went through the lower part of the house trying to figure out where he went. The stairs are open underneath with an opening on both the mudroom side and the kitchen side. She saw him in there and crawled in. Note she is still SCREAMING for him to drop it. I was on the mudroom side of the stairs so he was kinda trapped. He did drop it. She screamed for DW to come help. Well no go:
> 1) DW was on the toilet
> 2) DD1 is likely the only human in the family who could get under the stairs with ANY ease. That is what she gets for being 100# and 5'2"
> She wanted something to pick it up with other than a piece of ribbon she found under there I got her a couple of paper towels. I asked if it was still alive, she didn't know, thought maybe it was in shock. She handed out to me, I tossed it out the porch door. Looked pretty dead.
> 
> So she gets over it, right? Um, no. Then she started the 3rd degree with the cat repeatedly and angrily asking him where he found it. "WHERE did you find the mouse!!" "SHOW ME WHERE YOU FOUND THE MOUSE" Right, like he understands one syllable of what she was saying.
> 
> The good thing about this is that the cat didn't have a chance to crunch on the mouse, eat part of it and then barf it up somewhere for us to find in the morning.
> 
> I gave the cat lots of scrubs and praise after DD went to bed



Good kitty. 

Your DD1 wouldnt like me much if she saw me stomping mice I find in the feed bins even though I have put the lids on tightly. Or killing snakes or any other critter that decides my feed or animals is on its menu. Lots of possums and raccoons have checked in but they never checked out.


----------



## Bruce

She doesn't know about the animals that didn't check out.


----------



## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> Good cat
> Bad DD1
> Good Bruce ...
> 
> She's (DD1) about to start college and she's chastising/questioning giving the third degree to a cat?    I'm actually a bit surprised that you didn't mention her getting angry at you for "throwing" the mouse out the back door, vice giving mouth to mouth and CPR and ensuring viability before GENTLY releasing in an appropriate "mouse friendly" area outside... or better yet, inside, where it could stay warm and dry...
> 
> You don't say much about your DW, but I have to imagine she has to be a lot like your DD1... I mean, having "gotten to know you" kinda/sorta over time on here, I have to say: for a sensible sort, you must have not contributed much toward your DD1's genetics, so she must have gotten it from the Missus, I'm continually like: View attachment 54101 How can she be so decidedly opposite you in so many ways?



X2!!!!!


----------



## farmerjan

Has your DD1 ever found a favorite sweater with a chewed hole or stinking mouse manure and smell in one of her drawers?  Does she find that acceptable?  
God bless the people at the school she is going to.  They will not like that sort of behavior if there is disease carrying "vermin" at the school.  Would she like it if there were mice running around the kitchen on the counters where she is preparing her food?   I just don't get it. 
She would have a heart attack when I catch a mouse on a sticky board trap and take it outside and hold it and call the cats and my calico will come and pull it off the sticky board.  Then I can use it again a few more times. 

All I can say is you must have the patience of a saint..


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Would she like it if there were mice running around the kitchen on the counters where she is preparing her food?


No, but she would want them caught and taken outside alive ... like the spiders and ants. We don't get all that many mice, mostly fall and winter when they are looking for a cold weather home. And so far, much as she doesn't like how this happens, they don't manage to get upstairs.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> No, but she would want them caught and taken outside alive



Caught and taken outside by you and DW. Would she do it herself?


----------



## Bruce

She would catch the mice (though I"m not sure how), no go on the spiders. She calls for "ant patrol" or "spider control". That would not be me most of the time. More often DW or DD2. I squish the ants when I see them and she doesn't. Toss them out and they will just come back. I ignore spiders if they are small. I will scoop up bigger ones and toss them outside. Spiders are good.

Don't know who will do it if she has a single at college.


----------



## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> God bless the people at the school she is going to. They will not like that sort of behavior if there is disease carrying "vermin" at the school.


I suspect, that considering the college she is going to, she will probably find a lot of like minded people. It is, primarily a liberal arts college..not exactly known for their rough and tumble student body or faculty. And, it's in 'kinder and gentler'  Canada.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> And so far, much as she doesn't like how this happens, they don't manage to get upstairs.


That anyone is aware of.........


----------



## Bruce

Oh there are spiders upstairs, I don't think the mice get up there all that often. Probably don't get the chance, the cats seem to know when they are around even though we don't hear or see them. 

I don't think the nature of any given college is more or less likely to be "emotionally friendly". Sure, people who go into the ag department at A&M and grew up on farms are more likely to be less sensitive to critters than someone from "town" going into one of the other depts. Heck, DD1 used to eat beef (somewhere there is a picture of her at about 2 with a big rib bone) and she took a good size wolf spider for "show and tell" in Kindergarten. Don't know what worm invaded her brain since then.


----------



## Latestarter

farmerjan said:


> ... All I can say is you must have the patience of a saint...


Thought that was worth repeating. I couldn't deal with it...  

You know, I wonder... A stray thought just crossed my mind...  I'm originally from New England and Bruce is originally from CA... I mean it's obvious that there are some really "wrong thinking" people out on the left coast... I wonder if some of that was passed on to your offspring? I know YOU don't have those issues... you're more a New Englander than some of the present folks who claim to be... Maybe the CA mindset skips a generation (or more)?  I suppose it's a good thing that only the 1st child was affected... DD2 sounds like a completely normal gal...


----------



## Bruce

Nah, there are people like DD1 all over the world. Witness the PETA people. She isn't nearly that bad, not even a vegan. Of course she chooses not to think about where the animal based things she eats come from or what sort of lives they lead. She couldn't even be a Jain, they won't kill anything, not even a plant. Talk about a restrictive diet.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> no go on the spiders. She calls for "ant patrol" or "spider control".





Bruce said:


> Don't know who will do it if she has a single at college.



Guess she will just have to let the spiders live with her.


----------



## RollingAcres

Just a thought, I wonder if vegans eat bread? Bread (yeast bread) is made from yeasts. Yeasts are single-celled microorganisms, that should be considered a living thing.


----------



## Bruce

Don't confuse them with facts LS!


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## Latestarter

Huh? WhadIsay? Facts? huh?


----------



## Bruce

Went to get a bags of layer and a different flavor of dry cat food. The oldest cat suddenly tired of the chicken flavor. Stopped in the boot section JUST in case the winter boots I've been waiting for came in. They did  Good for -50° to 65°(mind you that is if you are ACTIVE at those temps, my feet will still get cold sitting on the garden tractor blowing snow if it is -20° and there is a lot of snow to move). Now I don't have to gorilla tape the rips in the old ones and still get wet cold feet anyway.

And 
Tossed my old taped up boots (what a crazy thought!  ) while DW was there in the mudroom with me. She got a bug up her .... er ... a bee in her bonnet and decided EVERYONE should go through the footwear and get rid of old, beat up or things smelling of cat pee (Christofur was a bad boy before he got fixed in May). I think I tossed about 15 pair of shoes and boots in the trash


----------



## Mike CHS

We found a use for old boots as we use tarps outside our shop stall for added shade.  We use T-posts on the outside to secure the tarps and then drive a T-post in the middle that we secure a 2x4 long enough to create some good run off.  We put an old boot over the 2x4 that keeps the tarp from wearing on the 2x4.


----------



## Bruce

Good use for old boots! Got no tarped areas here though. If the animals want shade they (the chickens) hang out in the barn or under bushes by the house. The alpacas go in the barn, under the solar panels or under the tree behind the pond.


----------



## farmerjan

Down here old boots and such are used for "planters".... like at the end of walks on old country looking places, or under trees or in areas that are rather rocky.  Gives some character to planters... they S_L_O_W_L_Y  will rot away if they have much leather.  Fill em up with good topsoil and plant things like "hens and chicks" in low ones, old lace up type work shoes can get anything you want...
I like mikes idea to prevent tarps from tearing.  Good to put on the top of T-posts also so an animal doesn't get hurt or cut...
It's the country, we are not in it for looks but for practicality.


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> It's the country, we are not in it for looks but for practicality.


Then you won't have anything insulting to say about my wood drying/storage racks 

These boots were all rubber or synthetic. Some had fake fur on them.


----------



## farmerjan

Bruce said:


> Then you won't have anything insulting to say about my wood drying/storage racks
> 
> These boots were all rubber or synthetic. Some had fake fur on them.



Yep, candidates for the dumpster......  does your daughter have an aversion to leather because it comes from an animal?  If so, then what is her take on all this fake stuff that won't even biodegrade?????  I can't seem to get my head around some of the reasoning that the "tree hugger" types have.  Not trying to be disrespectful.... I just don't get the not killing anything yet nature has intended for "higher life forms" to kill, eat , use and eventually discard "lower life forms" that will return to the earth in a natural way. 

I think your idea of having the racks to put up on the porch all in a big "piece" rather than having to do it all by hand is a great idea.  Who the he// cares what it looks like if it does the job?  

If looks were important, I would be driving a new(er) truck, making payments, have newer tractors, and cows with registration papers.....
Instead, I have  ALL PAID FOR....a 2000 subaru forester ( as soon as the rebuilt engine gets put in it), a 1994 ford ranger pickup with some "DEER MODIFICATIONS" and a different colored drivers door from a slight bent backwards door that was sprung and we had to replace it;  a 1984 4wd ranger pickup with faded black paint, no tailgate but a short "stop board" and right now a broken muffler, and no radio but the heat does work....
Our newest big P.U. truck is a 1998 ford f350 crew cab;  our preferred truck to pull the cattle trailer is a f-250  maybe a 95(?),  plus various other trucks to take to and from fields... most on "farm use" tags.
Plus my preferred tractor is a 40's model faded paint, iron seat, no power steering, type, Farmall H to rake hay in small tight fields;   faded old ford 4600 and 6600 tractors with live hydraulics to use other farm equipment;  old Allis Chalmers 190's and 200's for other stuff,  a BIG 7040(?) allis that actually has a cab.... plus the 2 newer tractors, a big agco allis to use with the discbine, and the 4wd big John Deere that is part of the payments on the rented farm....they both have air cooling ( not really air conditioning cold...) both over 100 hp each for the big equipment.
Plus so much other equipment it looks like a used tractor/equipment lot; rakes, tedders, round and square balers, wagons....  All paid for except the discbine..... 
All the angus and other cross bred cattle.....paid for.  All the bulls are registered purebreds so we do believe in "upgrading"... again paid for.

We are into as much paid for as we can.... yet we still owe nearly $20,000 in seed and fertilizer, spraying some fields,  from 2018 operations....with feeder calf prices down and not looking good so don't know how much of that we will have to carry over .....

So don't apologize for being practical and a little ingenuity for the rack.  Looks be d#@%d.


----------



## Rammy

Im the same way on debt. Everything I own is paid for. If I dont have the cash to buy it, I go without. I would love a new car, tractor, lots of stuff, but have to save for it first. Hey, if it runs and is paid for, fine with me. If someone doesnt like it, they can buy me a new one. I wont mind.


----------



## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> Yep, candidates for the dumpster......  does your daughter have an aversion to leather because it comes from an animal?  If so, then what is her take on all this fake stuff that won't even biodegrade?????  I can't seem to get my head around some of the reasoning that the "tree hugger" types have.  Not trying to be disrespectful.... I just don't get the not killing anything yet nature has intended for "higher life forms" to kill, eat , use and eventually discard "lower life forms" that will return to the earth in a natural way.
> 
> I think your idea of having the racks to put up on the porch all in a big "piece" rather than having to do it all by hand is a great idea.  Who the he// cares what it looks like if it does the job?
> 
> If looks were important, I would be driving a new(er) truck, making payments, have newer tractors, and cows with registration papers.....
> Instead, I have  ALL PAID FOR....a 2000 subaru forester ( as soon as the rebuilt engine gets put in it), a 1994 ford ranger pickup with some "DEER MODIFICATIONS" and a different colored drivers door from a slight bent backwards door that was sprung and we had to replace it;  a 1984 4wd ranger pickup with faded black paint, no tailgate but a short "stop board" and right now a broken muffler, and no radio but the heat does work....
> Our newest big P.U. truck is a 1998 ford f350 crew cab;  our preferred truck to pull the cattle trailer is a f-250  maybe a 95(?),  plus various other trucks to take to and from fields... most on "farm use" tags.
> Plus my preferred tractor is a 40's model faded paint, iron seat, no power steering, type, Farmall H to rake hay in small tight fields;   faded old ford 4600 and 6600 tractors with live hydraulics to use other farm equipment;  old Allis Chalmers 190's and 200's for other stuff,  a BIG 7040(?) allis that actually has a cab.... plus the 2 newer tractors, a big agco allis to use with the discbine, and the 4wd big John Deere that is part of the payments on the rented farm....they both have air cooling ( not really air conditioning cold...) both over 100 hp each for the big equipment.
> Plus so much other equipment it looks like a used tractor/equipment lot; rakes, tedders, round and square balers, wagons....  All paid for except the discbine.....
> All the angus and other cross bred cattle.....paid for.  All the bulls are registered purebreds so we do believe in "upgrading"... again paid for.
> 
> We are into as much paid for as we can.... yet we still owe nearly $20,000 in seed and fertilizer, spraying some fields,  from 2018 operations....with feeder calf prices down and not looking good so don't know how much of that we will have to carry over .....
> 
> So don't apologize for being practical and a little ingenuity for the rack.  Looks be d#@%d.



LIKE x 1,000!!!!!


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Not trying to be disrespectful.... I just don't get the not killing anything yet nature has intended for "higher life forms" to kill, eat , use and eventually discard "lower life forms" that will return to the earth in a natural way.


She figures people can live without eating animals. Which is true in most areas though I gather that some places in Africa are SO poor in soils and water that they eat far more meat than the average "American" because animals that evolved to live on such plants that can grow there are utilized. Might explain the popularity of goat meat.

I don't imagine she spends a lot of time thinking of the ramifications of man made versus nature made materials.

You have a LOT of equipment! We owe only on 2 things - the house and the credit cards. And the credit cards are paid off every month. Used to be only the LL Bean CC but they switched from Visa to MC and Costco only takes Visa so there is one charge on my CU Visa monthly.



Rammy said:


> Hey, if it runs and is paid for, fine with me. If someone doesn't like it, they can buy me a new one. I wont mind.


Your future BF @Latestarter will buy them for you when he wins the MM.

Planning to put snow tires on DD1's car (which has a slow leak in the RR summer tire) and the remaining 2 snow tires on DW's car today. One of the rears that I was going to put on last Sunday was dead flat. Some loss is expected over the summer but not 36 PSI. Took it to Bill last week and he said it had a bead seal leak, took care of it. And I plan to get the new splitter out since it isn't supposed to rain today. Will try to remember to take pictures of it and the wood racks. Will also take pictures of the pond which is filling nicely with all the rain we have gotten the last couple of weeks but SHOULD have been spread out over the summer months


----------



## farmerjan

@Bruce ,  yes we do have alot of equipment.  More than maybe is needed but much is old.  We  were able to buy most of his equipment off the farmer friend that passed away from cancer a couple of years ago for bargain basement prices because he did not take as good a care of it as should have been and it was appraised at very low prices.  We had several pieces of our own before that but we weren't doing as big of an operation.
Much is cosmetic, not being stored inside, paint faded peeling and such.  But several have some small stuff, minor hydraulic oil leaks, one has power steering issues, stuff like that.  We have done some work on some and will do a little more on some more this winter.  But, like having 2 round balers... had one, used, then got the second one in the group of equipment from him.  Ours had a major breakdown.  If we didn't have his we would have lost alot of hay to rain.  Neither are new, a new one is like 30,000.  We are not going to pay payments or interest on something like that.  So we dropped the one, got the other finished baling and the other had to go to the dealer to get fixed and will be picked up after a bit over 1,000 of parts and work.  We had a small square baler; bought at a sale for about $5-600.,   about 30 yrs old; some things are a little "loose and sloppy" but it works.  Then found one that had an attached kicker a few years later, bought it and now keep the "little one" as a backup.  Broke the tongue that the baler attaches to the tractor and did some damage.  It was metal fatigue/ weak spot.  Had to use the small one.  Got the one with the kicker fixed for over $500 but it is back and working pretty good.  A new one is in the 20,000 range.  We have a virtual junk yard of old stuff that some are just for parts now.  Just bought a small used chopper, about 20 + years old. About 3,000.   Couldn't get the custom guy to get to our "small acreage" of 15 acres, then he broke down, not going to fix it until after the first of the year.  Could not find anyone else to do it.  Do you waste 15-20,000 worth of seed, fertilizer, and subsequent grain sorghum silage?   Nope we will do our own.  The big plastic bag that it goes into is $400  for the 8x150 ft bag.  Rent the bagger, use our 2-3 tractors to get it done. The bag is a one use thing, so money spent every year.  If we owned the farm we would put in a concrete slab, and concrete pony walls and pack the silage in a trench instead of spending money on a bag. Capital improvements, but again money spent... But it enables us to have this as feed, and a cushion against years of crummy hay like this year where the quality is poor due to wet and over mature late first cutting.
We have more equipment than alot of farmers, but we do not trade in stuff every 5-10 years except our discbine. It is one piece that gets all the wear and tear and when it starts to wear out, is very expensive to start replacing parts.
Because we also make hay in several different places, it helps to have extra equipment to have at each place and not have to constantly move equipment from one place to another.  That is in itsself very time consuming.
We bought a couple of tractors at sales where they couldn't get bids, or not above scrap prices.  We don't care what it looks like, and some have not been well maintained and that hurt sale prices, but we are well adept at "jury-rigging" things to get them to work.  So we get stuff for next to nothing because everyone wants something that is nice and in A-1 working order and don't want or know how to work on it.  And I prefer an open station tractor for much/most of my hay raking and everyone wants cabs and air conditioning and all that.


----------



## Bruce

Pond pictures
Looking west, then south

  

Looking north
  

Still picture of running water under the rocks in the prior picture. I guess if we get enough rain some of it must drain into this area.
 

NOW we know why the pond went dry!!!


----------



## Baymule

all your hard work paid off, it looks good!


----------



## Bruce

Wood rack pictures and the pile I'm working on that used to be the big maple from the other house. I can't even pick up the full rounds, I had cut crosses in them with the chain saw then used a sledge and wedges to quarter or halve them.


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## Baymule

Looks like you are ready for winter.


----------



## Bruce

And the splitter. Jury is still out. Started splitting a good size chunk and noticed an odd noise. The pulley on the motor had moved outboard. Pushed it back. Same thing only this time as the motor slowed to a stop, the key fell out of the motor shaft. Good thing I saw it drop or I wouldn't have known where to look for it. Of course I had to take the safety shield off to get the key back in. The 1 set screw was loose and the pulley had rotated away from the "keyable" position. I ASSUME that there is supposed to be another set screw in the threaded but empty hole on the pulley. I will have to check the manual and have them send me one FREE since THEY didn't tighten the set screws properly.

    

Splitter in action, the belt noise is louder than the motor. I think I had the pulley in too far. After I finished splitting and had unplugged the machine I moved the pulley out until the belt and pulley looked more in line.


----------



## farmerjan

Pond is looking nice.  You will have it full for spring from whatever more rain you get and then subsequent snow melt.  
By the time you wait for them to send you another set screw, you can take the one still there out, take it to the hardware store get a couple and get back home and back to work, and not waste days waiting on the mail.   They aren't that expensive. It helps to have an extra or two of small stuff like that.  Keys for the keyways are another thing we keep extras around.   Although sometimes things are special sizes and are not easily replaced locally.


----------



## Bruce

And the splitter. Jury is still out. Design of some parts could be better. There are 7 bolt/nut pairs and 4 bolts that must be taken out to get the shield off the machine. If they want people to do proper maintenance, they could have designed it so it was fast and easy to get that shield off. There are 2 grease fittings. One is easy to get to, the other looks impossible. Although there may be a way but they didn't explain it in the greasing instructions. Later in the manual it talks about removing the 2 return springs and sliding the ram forward (for a different maintenance item). MAYBE with the ram forward the grease fitting will be accessible. But at the moment I'm not willing to take the time to take the shields off AGAIN. And, as the manual suggests, this thing really doesn't like angles on EITHER end of the piece of wood. The other one could deal with that since the wedge was pushing against the wood and since it was moving really slowly, I could hold the piece in place. This one slams in pretty fast and I am NOT putting my hands on that wood. Not that I could anyway, they have a safety lever that must be held up while the handle for the ram is moved forward. No hands left to put on the wood.

Started splitting a good size chunk and noticed an odd noise. The pulley on the motor had moved outboard. Pushed it back. Same thing only this time as the motor slowed to a stop, the key fell out of the motor shaft. Good thing I saw it drop or I wouldn't have known where to look for it. Of course I had to take the safety shield off to get the key back in. The 1 set screw was loose and the pulley had rotated away from the "keyable" position. I ASSUME that there is supposed to be another set screw in the threaded but empty hole on the pulley. I will have to check the manual and have them send me one FREE since THEY didn't tighten the set screws properly.

View attachment 54226 View attachment 54228 View attachment 54229 View attachment 54230

Splitter in action, the belt noise is louder than the motor. I think I had the pulley in too far. After I finished splitting and had unplugged the machine I moved the pulley out until the belt and pulley looked more in line. I'll see if that changes the belt noise.


----------



## Bruce

Not sure why the pictures in the prior post are attachments rather than inline. Oh well.
Here is the tractor in its "home".


----------



## Baymule

You sure seem to have all the small annoying problems with equipment. DR equipment is not cheap stuff either. Our neighbor has a splitter, we use it for our DD's firewood. It never gives a bit of problem, but then we don't service it-he does-and just brings it over for us to use.


----------



## Latestarter

Pond is looking really nice. How much higher will it come up the banks before full? Appears the top is about another 2-3 feet.


----------



## Bruce

That would be about right @Latestarter, I'm guessing the deepest part will be maybe 6' now. That is good, plenty of water under the ice in the part that fills first if it fills all the way. Still don't know how the fish and frogs made it through prior winters.

Well splitting today was a bust. Wasn't supposed to start raining until after noon, started around 9:30 just after I got started. Good chance of rain tomorrow during daylight hours but it is not SUPPOSED to rain on Wednesday so I will try again.  Still have plenty of logs to cut to 16" as well, none nearly as big around as the pile I showed yesterday.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> If they want people to do proper maintenance, they could have designed it so it was fast and easy to get that shield off.


You can thank the leftists and alphabet agencies that are concerned about someone taking the guard off or even leaving it off. 
I have read requirements from govt agencies that plainly stated that was their aim and intention....Design it in such a way as to make public access to moving parts so difficult that many would opt to take it to a shop to have the work/maintenance done by "factory trained & qualified personnel'.
Mantra...
"Must
Provide
Safe
Spaces
and
refuge from
Real
World...."


----------



## Bruce

In this case I think people would be MORE likely to leave the cover off. They say to grease this thing every 5 hours (of use I presume  ). Not something you would take to the dealer. If they put turn button like fasteners on it so you could take the one side off without tools, I bet people would do the maintenance. It isn't like there is any stress at all on the thin plastic cover, certainly no need for bolts with a 9/16" head on them.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr @Bruce,

Your pond is looking great!  When I read through your journal and all of the work you did to clean out the sediment that had filled it, I though, "Wow!  That is a lot of work!"  And now you reaping the rewards of that work!

It is a shame that you can't have some of the wood I have.  I have all kinds of wood and nowhere to burn it!  And the gas fireplace insert is goofing up, so I don't even have that to keep us warm!

I hope you get your splitter fixed and it will prove to be less of a burden to use.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> Your future BF @Latestarter will buy them for you when he wins the MM.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Rammy said:


> [/
> That would be cool...a BYH wedding...and all that great farm fresh food, no pressure here.... (sorry Rammy,  I couldn't  resist joining the teasing)


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> It isn't like there is any stress at all on the thin plastic cover, certainly no need for bolts with a 9/16" head on them.


Tell it to CPSC. They set the standards for what kind and size fasteners are to be used on things like safety guards.


----------



## Rammy

We keep this up, poor @Latestarter will go into hiding.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Pretty sure he already states that he plans to when he wins!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Yes, but he could pay for all of us to fly to the wedding and at the reception ...he could cook for us  then they can go into hiding....


----------



## Rammy

You mean, HE......can hear those feet running now.................thanks for being a good sport, LS!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Oh is he in for a surprise when he gets back on to catch up after his son goes home!!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Wehner Homestead said:


> Oh is he in for a surprise when he gets back on to catch up after his son goes home!!


Gosh, Id  sure like to be a fly on the wall watching, omg....way too funny ...welcome back to BYH LATESTARTER


----------



## Rammy

Poor guy. When the cats away.................


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Rammy said:


> Poor guy. When the cats away.................


"You don't  have to be lonley at for farmers only .com"...they should change it to BYH.COM.  ya when the cats away us mice sure do have fun ! Hey Rammy, pass me the cheese will ya   i wonder if he's  going to put me on the ignore  list....lmao


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Wood rack pictures and the pile I'm working on that used to be the big maple from the other house. I can't even pick up the full rounds, I had cut crosses in them with the chain saw then used a sledge and wedges to quarter or halve them.
> View attachment 54222 View attachment 54224 View attachment 54225


Pond is looking good and looks like a nice day when you took those pictures.
Yup, you're ready for winter. So how much of that wood do you think you'll go through?


----------



## RollingAcres

Y'all are a bunch of trouble makers!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

RollingAcres said:


> Y'all are a bunch of trouble makers!


Yupper...and fun was had by all


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> So how much of that wood do you think you'll go through?


All of it and some I haven't yet split. We go through about 4 cords a year, half a run a week. There is 1 run in each rack and probably about 2 runs left in the stack that was put up before I got the tractor and started on the "let's have Bruce do a WHOLE lot less wood moving" project. There are also about 1.5 cords on the porch. Left over from last year and then we filled the racks with some of the wood in the stacks since some of it blew over. Used the bucket on the tractor to move the wood to the porch. If it is super cold when I need to replace a rack on the porch landing or foul weather, I'll use some of the porch wood until the weather improves.



Latestarter said:


>


 Welcome to the lonely hearts club @Latestarter


----------



## Bruce

Jury has returned, guilty as charged. The new splitter is going back. I bought a replacement set screw for the pulley yesterday. Put it in today and tried splitting again. In 1/2 hour DD2 and I managed to get about 4 pieces of wood off the splitter. Most of the time was spent with a 3' crowbar trying to free the wood being split as it was crammed against the wedge by the ram. The ram apparently can not retract without going slightly forward first. When the wood wasn't trapped, but also didn't split, I had to turn the machine off then back on to get the ram to retract. This is the same thing that happened Monday in the short time I had to try the splitter.  I understand this is maple which is pretty hard though the tree was cut about 3 years ago and I had blocked it a month ago. All but one of the ~20" (?) rounds and one with an 8" Y branch (that one was only about 14" diameter") had been split into 2 or 4 pieces with wedges and a sledge prior to trying to split it on the new splitter. 

So I gave up right? NO! I put that POS back in the barn and brought out the old 10 ton hydraulic electric DR. It split EVERY dang piece of wood including the round with the Y branch AND the full round. DD and I could barely lift the full round onto the splitter. I tried these for S&G not expecting to be able to split them. Yes we had to try various orientations to get those last two to split and sometimes got some small little bits chunked off but with time the little dude did the job where the big guy was a near total fail. It HAD totally failed on the Y branch piece even though it was given at least a dozen chances in various orientations on Monday. I guess slow and steady wins the race.  Sure am glad I hadn't yet posted it on CL and sold it before finding out the new machine couldn't do the job. It took about 1 hour with the old SLOW splitter to split that pile I posted a picture of before. The only good thing about the RapidFire is that when it isn't stuck, the ram does move very quickly, no standing and waiting for it to get ready to start the next attempt.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Sorry about that bud, that really stinks when you buy a piece of eqipment THINKING it will make the job easier...wish you were closer, not using our  splitter...works fast and slick.


----------



## Baymule

It may be slow, but it beats pounding on a wedge or using a maul.


----------



## Bruce

OK, now I need that pickup. I can either take the splitter back to the factory store (aka 'depot') about 50 miles or pay nearly $500 to have them pay a freight company to collect it. I paid $99 to have it brought to my house, apparently a "promotional" price.


----------



## Baymule

They are just shoving it up your where-the-sun-don't-shine. Good thing it don't work or it would hurt a lot worse. Road trip?


----------



## Mike CHS

It might be money ahead to rent a pickup


----------



## greybeard

what brand and model is the malfunctioning splitter?
rent a trailer.
Load the splitter on to the trailer.
pull the trailer to the dealer with the alpacas.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Baymule said:


> Road trip?



Yeah, to go see Miss @B&B Happy goats to get her splitter!  Mr. @Bruce, you need a bit of Florida sunshine, don't you?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Come on down ya yankee, lol


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> what brand and model is the malfunctioning splitter?
> rent a trailer.
> Load the splitter on to the trailer.
> pull the trailer to the dealer with the alpacas.



I'll get right on that. I wonder who rents alpaca double pulling harnesses.
The splitter is a DR RapidFire electric. SUPPOSED to equal a 22 HP hydraulic splitter.  DD said it didn't want to split anything that was taller than the wedge. Don't know about that but given all the time and effort it requires to take down a tree of any size that would be reasonable with a 16" bar chainsaw, limb it, cut to lengths and haul it to the splitter, I wouldn't even bother cutting down trees that small in diameter. Very little extra work to cut down a tree twice that size which would yield twice as much wood.

Yep, checked U-Haul, I can rent a truck for about $20. Not sure how many free miles but I'm sure it will cost well less than $100. Round trip is about 100 miles.


----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> what brand and model is the malfunctioning splitter?
> rent a trailer.
> Load the splitter on to the trailer.
> pull the trailer to the dealer with the alpacas.


And be sure to video that. We at BYH would really like to see the Alpacas at work.


----------



## RollingAcres

@Bruce sorry you are having a hard time with that new splitter.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I'll get right on that. I wonder who rents alpaca double pulling harnesses.
> The splitter is a DR RapidFire electric. SUPPOSED to equal a 22 HP hydraulic splitter.  DD said it didn't want to split anything that was taller than the wedge. Don't know about that but given all the time and effort it requires to take down a tree of any size that would be reasonable with a 16" bar chainsaw, limb it, cut to lengths and haul it to the splitter, I wouldn't even bother cutting down trees that small in diameter. Very little extra work to cut down a tree twice that size which would yield twice as much wood.
> 
> Yep, checked U-Haul, I can rent a truck for about $20. Not sure how many free miles but I'm sure it will cost well less than $100. Round trip is about 100 miles.


When the log hangs up, that is, stops moving farther into the wedge, exactly what is taking place?
It's a pretty simple design that's been around for a long time by different manufacturers,  and there are only a few possible reasons they would fail. (keeping in mind that even the best hydraulic splitter will find some wood it stalls out on.)

Possible causes are:
A.
1. Electric motor rotor stalls. (motor just stops turning but power is still going to it)
   a. Usual cause of this is that the electric power to the motor is too low voltage...#1 cause is from extension cord too small or too long.
2. Power trips off to electric motor via thermal reset at the motor. ..again, #1 cause is from extension cord too small or too long.
In other words, a voltage drop. In order for the motor to be able to develop it's full rated hp, it has to be able to pull it's full rated amps, and as ohm's law stipulates that voltage (drop) is equal to amps X resistance, the longer the cord, or the smaller the diameter wire inside the ext cord, the more voltage drop you will have. (Voltage drop is measured/calculated while under load, not while running with no load)
B.
1. Belt slipping on elec motor pulley.
2. Elec motor pulley slipping on shaft--meaning the key is sheared or missing..
3. Flywheel pulley slipping on it's pinion shaft--meaning it's key is sheared or missing..

Unless the electric version is different from the gas powered version, the return is a simple spring return. The hand lever lowers the rack which disengages rack from pinion gear and the spring pulls the rack and push plate back away from wedge to it's rear most position.

The return hangs up under tension only because the rack cannot release from the pinion gear due to the friction between the pinion and rack gear teeth.

Different brand, same design with a gas Kohler engine but beginning at 4 minute mark, they do a good job explaining and showing how the rack/pinion splitters work, and their limitations. You do have to get used to quickly releasing it, before it jams up..The flywheel has to have a few revolutions to be able to develop the kinectic energy. You can't just keep pushing the handle expecting it to work like a hydraulic ram does. That, is a no go.





I grimaced watching Elliot carrying "mama's boy' log over to the splitter)


----------



## Bruce

New 50' 10 gauge power cord. Power is a 20A breaker in a sub-panel in the barn workshop. New (professionally installed by licensed electrician) 70A feed from the main house panel in 2013. The wood was from a maple that was cut down 3 years ago, I blocked it a month ago and as noted, all but one piece had already been wedge split into halves or quarters so nothing taller than about 12".

Yes it is designed as you described. If the piece doesn't split, the ram often did not return unless I turned the motor off (pinion holding the rack) and there is a less than pleasant noise until the motor is turned off. The handle can't be moved back which SHOULD let the ram lift but it won't because of the pressure against the wood and the handle being in "force the rack down on the pinion" position. I think sometimes the ram must have lifted just a bit and the pinion was skipping in the rack but turning the motor off didn't allow the rack to retract. If I don't turn it off, the breaker on the machine trips. And if the ram does not return because it is locked up against the wood, it doesn't matter how many times I turn it off then back on. Then I have to pry the wood out. This:




 at 15:23
No way I would put that much pressure on the table (and I have the same heavy duty table). He has the 34 HP equivalent model, though gas (22 HP is the largest electric model), I'm sure the extra 50% power helps him get through the larger pieces. His machine has 2 flywheels, mine has only one 55 lb. My pieces were getting stuck in the normal splitting orientation, not turned 90°. It was rare that I could retract the ram and try again. Generally speaking, the wedge was < 1" into the wood when the ram got stuck. Even then it took a good 5 minutes with the 3' crowbar to lift the wood up and off the wedge and ram so the rack could return. I was operating it as specified, you have to hold the handle forward or the ram will return. This is different than the one in your video. Unless, of course, the ram is held against the wood by the pinion, then the rack can not return. It would be most helpful if they had a "release the rack" feature.


----------



## greybeard

I did not realize your's only had a single flywheel.

I've watched quite a few videos of the DR and a few of  other brands... mostly electric. All the electric ones I saw that had trouble, showed the unit pretty far from any building. Every one I saw that was in a garage or shop had no or very very few problems, and the few problems I saw of the units located inside, didn't include a complete shutdown of the machine, but just a quick reaction when the log didn't go thru as quickly as normal.

The one with the double flywheel would naturally have a larger electric motor. It takes more mechanical hp to get two flywheels rotating from a stop than it does one and requires more hp to keep them rotating. I had watched it earlier, if it's the one where he ends up using a chainsaw to free it up.
The one I remember as being most negative is this guy, and it does appear he is located a long way from an outlet....I can see what looks like a coiled up cord on the other side of his machine.




50' btw is a long way for developing full power in an electric motor, even for 10ga.

Being on an extension cord can make a LOT of difference.
Before I got my shop wired in with 240v, I ran my 110v 3/4hp table saw with a 50' extension cord from my back porch and I had to be very careful to keep the motor from stalling  tho it was plugged into an outlet wired for and on a 20a breaker.
Once I got the shop wired properly, the tablesaw never gave me any more trouble and the current draw went back down to a respectable 6.5A instead of the 15 amps it was pulling on the extension cord. I never  checked to see what my voltage drop was while running the saw off the extension cord, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were down around 80vac.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> The one I remember as being most negative is this guy


Yep, just like that. Ram hits the wood and bounces off like a fly hitting a window. Yet I've run my 10 ton electric on a 100' 12g cord without trouble. 

But I do know the "quality of the electricity" problem. When I first got the 10 ton in 2012 I was using it in the little barn with a 10' cord because that is where Al dumped all the wood and where it was stored. I had to cut some pieces down (too long) and or split them, total of about a run/year. I tripped the 15A breaker in the machine ALL the time. 

So I started checking the power line. The idiot we bought this place from couldn't tell a silver screw from a brass one or the word black from white on an outlet. And who needs a ground? And he had used 14g wire, it was about 100', OK for the lights on the circuit (and incandescent bulbs don't care about ground or reverse polarity anyway), not so good for something that actually draws some amps. I found I could use a 100' extension cord plugged into the outlet by the workshop sub-panel (after I grounded it and swapped the hot and neutral wires). The electricians ran a 20A circuit from the main house panel to the little barn (a whopping 25' or so) in 2013 when they ran the 70A line to the workshop and I could then use the splitter in the little barn with a 10' cord.

BTW, the specs on the motor on the 10 ton splitter say it is a 1.8 kW motor which Google says equates to 2.4 HP.
The 22 ton has a .5 HP motor which equates to .37 kW. Something doesn't seem right there. But maybe they figure the flywheel is doing all the work so it doesn't need much power to get it spinning and the smaller splitter needs a bigger motor for the hydraulic pump. The gas 34 ton has two 75 pound flywheels and a 6 HP gas motor.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Yet I've run my 10 ton electric on a 100' 12g cord without trouble.


Is it a straight elec over mechanical or is it elec over hydraulic?
HP is HP with some caveats. Hyd horsepower is calculated different than mechanical hp and electric hp is calculated different than both the former.
Hyd work is much better defined as force than as HP as a units of time is involved, as is flow.
The brake hp delivered to the pump is not 1:1 equal to the flow from the pump, but the difference can be made up in real time thru a larger piston or more efficient hydraulic motor, with a loss of the time factor.

What you can do with an electric/hyd unit in comparison to an electric/kinetic unit is mostly irrelevant except for getting advertising attention. They simply work too differently.

The DR splitter (and those that work like the DR) shouldn't really be advertised using the HP jargon at all. At best, torque should be the defining parameter or measurement. 
And, something many people don't take into consideration or understand....Unlike the motor & pump of an electric powered hydraulic unit, the flywheel of a kinetic unit does NOT create one bit of power..none, zilch, nada. The flywheel can only store the energy created by the electric motor and it's small-to-large pulleys. 

If I were going to try to troubleshoot your unit, (assuming nothing is slipping)  I would begin by checking the real rpm of the electric motor vs the name plate stated full load rpm, then using my clamp on volt and amp meter, see what is going on with the electric supply AT the motor.


----------



## Bruce

The 10 ton splitter with the 1.8 kW electric motor is hydraulic.


----------



## Bruce

Some pictures of the "wood processing" area.

  

And a lovely piece with ancient barbed wire. I thought I was below it, but it was in way deeper than I thought. Hello saw file!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Oh, how i don't  miss all that work....but really nice set up Bruce !


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Some pictures of the "wood processing" area.
> View attachment 54486


If that one in the foreground was here, I'd say it was pine.


----------



## Mike CHS

If there is any metal in a tree trunk, I always manage to find it.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> If that one in the foreground was here, I'd say it was pine.


Nope, I don't cut pine whether it is living or dead. Definitely second rate wood for heating. But I agree, the bark on that one sure does look like pine bark. No idea what it is though. I know there is oak, maple, beech, birch, cherry


----------



## Baymule

Lighter pine or pitch pine is an excellent fire starter. We have logs of a large pine tree that was cut in October 2014 and they still have the bark on. The whole tree was full of sap.


----------



## Bruce

Don't need that much fire starter  Pretty much burn 24x7, need wood that burns slow.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Some pictures of the "wood processing" area.
> View attachment 54485 View attachment 54486
> 
> And a lovely piece with ancient barbed wire. I thought I was below it, but it was in way deeper than I thought. Hello saw file!
> View attachment 54487


Wood processing area looks like nice set up.


----------



## Bruce

Cut down another tree yesterday, got the smaller branches (the 4ish" ones) back to the "staging area" but not the trunk and big branches. I was going to go bring some more in from the woods today but after grocery shopping and lunch and looking at the weather forecast, decided I REALLLLLLLLY needed to get the garden tractor set up for blowing snow. Otherwise it will snow a foot over night instead of only 4" overnight and tomorrow.


----------



## Latestarter

Have no fear... the downed tree will remain there waiting ever so patiently for you to come drag it to the butchering area. The weather waits for no one!


----------



## Bruce

True but I would like to get the rest of it at least cut to 8'. Blocking to 16" would get it drying some. But I'm not gonna go out through deep snow. Didn't get chains, probably couldn't lift them anyway, and the last thing I need is to have the tractor stuck out there for the winter


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Have no fear... the downed tree will remain there waiting ever so patiently for you to come drag it to the butchering area. The weather waits for no one!


Ain't  that the truth!


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> True but I would like to get the rest of it at least cut to 8'. Blocking to 16" would get it drying some. But I'm not gonna go out through deep snow. Didn't get chains, probably couldn't lift them anyway, and the last thing I need is to have the tractor stuck out there for the winter


So get your butt moving and get working


----------



## Bruce

But RA, snow! Gonna be a mess. Snowed about 3", near freezing so wet, just above freezing now so mush that will freeze. Temp dropping over the next couple of days and the low Thurs AM is supposed to be about 12°.

And my lower back is spasming. Not sure why.


----------



## RollingAcres

Was just picking on you. Getting the tractor ready for snow blowing is definitely #1. It's still fall but winter always comes early 'round here.
Sorry to hear that your back is spasming. Hope it stops soon and doesn't give you too much pain.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> But RA, snow! Gonna be a mess. Snowed about 3", near freezing so wet, just above freezing now so mush that will freeze. Temp dropping over the next couple of days and the low Thurs AM is supposed to be about 12°.



Why don't you send that snow down here.  We would love to have some snow for a change.


----------



## Latestarter

Careful what you wish for STA... Might turn into one heck of an ice storm for you vice snow...


----------



## Baymule

If we get snow, it is usually February. Last year it was January. Today there were snow flurries! Very light, it melted when it hit the ground, but snow in November??


----------



## farmerjan

We had 1.3 inches of COLD rain Sunday aft and Monday.  Then just cloudy and dreary today and temps barely hit mid 40's.  They are calling for a rain/ice/sleet/snow  "EVENT"  here starting Wed night/early Thurs a.m..  Up to 1/4 inch ice/sleet and roads will be a mess.  About a month early for us.  It was in the 50's and 60's  and we made hay 10 days ago.... Got to test a farm Wed that is 70 miles from me but should be home by 8-9 p.m.  Got one scheduled for Thurs aft. but it will depend on the weather.  I don't go out in it anymore if it is bad.  Got the 4x4 ford ranger farm truck to get around for the cows I have to go do.  Then clearing and cold for a week or so starting on Friday I think.
Gonna be a tough winter I think.


----------



## Mike CHS

Our temps are about 20 degrees below the average.  We are at 1500' elevation and had low clouds on the fields all day plus a 20 mph wind all day long.


----------



## Bruce

Low clouds on the fields. We call that fog 

Mr. NOAA was a bit off in his prediction for this morning. Not low 20's. Past 10 now and it has warmed up to 14°.


----------



## RollingAcres

Warmer here, 27 degrees


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Low clouds on the fields. We call that fog


..it comes on little cat feet.


----------



## Bruce

It sits looking 
over harbor and city 
on silent haunches 
and then moves on.


----------



## Bruce

DD2 and I are flying to So. Cal (no, not the fire areas) tomorrow. Sharing a suitcase. 
She has all her stuff in and then says she needs room for her sneakers. 
I ask why. 
She says she is wearing her winter boots. 
I ask why. 
She says because there is snow on the ground. 
I say she is not going to use space in the suitcase for sneakers, she can wear them to the plane. She has no use for winter boots in So. Cal. for 10 days.
"I am NOT going to wear my sneakers in the snow!!!!!" 

I tell her it is all of 40' to the car and the snow is packed. No snow tomorrow.
She says her feet are going to get wet and she will be uncomfortable the entire trip. Then repeats "I am NOT going to wear my sneakers in the snow!!!!!" 
I told her I can go down to the barn, get the plastic sled and pull her to the car.
Where is the ,,|,, emoji (if you get my drift)

Mind you this "child" is 23 years old.


----------



## Latestarter

<sigh> Loss for words... Have a safe/"fun" trip. Maybe you can leave her there when you go back home?


----------



## Rammy

Im so glad I never had kids.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> DD2 and I are flying to So. Cal (no, not the fire areas) tomorrow. Sharing a suitcase.
> She has all her stuff in and then says she needs room for her sneakers.
> I ask why.
> She says she is wearing her winter boots.
> I ask why.
> She says because there is snow on the ground.
> I say she is not going to use space in the suitcase for sneakers, she can wear them to the plane. She has no use for winter boots in So. Cal. for 10 days.
> "I am NOT going to wear my sneakers in the snow!!!!!"
> 
> I tell her it is all of 40' to the car and the snow is packed. No snow tomorrow.
> She says her feet are going to get wet and she will be uncomfortable the entire trip. Then repeats "I am NOT going to wear my sneakers in the snow!!!!!"
> I told her I can go down to the barn, get the plastic sled and pull her to the car.
> Where is the ,,|,, emoji (if you get my drift)
> 
> Mind you this "child" is 23 years old.


Whose child is this?


----------



## Bruce

DW and mine. 
In case anyone is wondering, she will be wearing her sneakers when we leave the house. Or, minimally, carrying them and leaving her boots in the car.


----------



## Rammy

You have the patience of a saint.


----------



## farmerjan

I often wear my barn "shoes or boots" and take my better sneakers with me so I can stop at the barn and feed the calves then go from there to test a herd.  Leave the barn footwear in the car or whatever I am driving so I don't track my "barn germs" to another farm. No big deal for her to wear her boots, change at the airport and leave them in the car to be ready for when she gets back. 

And I am beyond thinking a patience of a saint.  I am to the point of thinking that somewhere these CHILDREN need to get out on their own and learn to grow up and DEAL with real life.  You do realize you are not always going to be able to play the "mommy and daddy will fix it and make it better" routine?


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Mind you this "child" is 23 years old.


_
mil·len·nial
/miˈlenēəl/
noun
plural noun: *millennials*; plural noun: *Millennials*

a person reaching young adulthood in the early 21st century.
_

I suppose you've seen this already....






Well, to be expected I suppose. I "knew it all" at 23 yrs old too.......but, was already married,  had 1 child, had my 1st (and last) mortgage, was living 600 miles from my parents house, and had already been halfway around the world on a year long govt sponsored 'vacation'.


----------



## Latestarter

Hadn't seen that video before. kinda funny.


----------



## RollingAcres

@Bruce have a safe and great trip to So Cal. Hopefully DD2 doesn't drive you nuts while there.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

greybeard said:


> mil·len·nial



Mr. @greybeard, sir, you continually amaze me!   Not only do you have an encyclopedic knowledge about so many different subjects, but you also find these funny videos, like the one about, the one "You picked a fine time to leave me, loose wheel", and "The Chevy got stuck and the Ford got stuck".  I so much enjoy your posts.

Mr. @Bruce, sir, I hope you have a great trip and some bonding with your daughter.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Come yesterday morning she was over her "shoe" thing. Wore her sneakers to the car. 



farmerjan said:


> I am to the point of thinking that somewhere these CHILDREN need to get out on their own and learn to grow up and DEAL with real life. You do realize you are not always going to be able to play the "mommy and daddy will fix it and make it better" routine?


Yep. Started working on that in a small way. She expects me to ask her please to help with stuff, like splitting wood, that is a benefit to all but figures I should things that benefit just her "because". DW asked me to put on her snow tires a couple of weeks back since she has quite the drive to work 6 days a week. DD1 had a problem with a tire and asked me to look at it. Figured I might as well put her snows on since that tire did go low pretty quick after I aired it up. Yep had a screw in it. Took it to Bill along with my winters because my car needs state inspection sometime in Nov or Dec and they can't inspect it if any lights are on. No TPS sensors in the snow tires and the brakes should be cleaned up now an again anyway. Didn't touch DD2's car. Busy with other stuff anyway. 

So while I got some grief from all 3 of them, DW did point out that both she and DD1 has asked me to do something about their tires, not just ASSUMED I would take care of it. No time to do DD2's since we are traveling and Thursday was taken up with returning the splitter, I had plenty to do Friday, the ground is snow covered anyway. DD was supposed to call Bill Friday since her winter job will likely start soon as we get back and see if she could set up a tire changeover but forgot.  He could have done it this week, DW and DD1 could have dropped off and picked up the car, still rescuing DD2 from her lack of self reliance.


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## Baymule

Bruce, you are a good man. You have enormous amounts of patience and common sense. Kinda makes one wonder just where the DNA split off and where did it wander off to? Maybe it will show back up in the next generation.


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## Bruce

One can only hope. DD1 has been suffering from her migraine for 11 years. Really kept her down. She's the one that can barely deal with 'only' 100% on schoolwork. Since they've finally gotten some medicines that help her out, she can go to college. I expect she won't be sitting on her heels. 

I really wouldn't care if they wanted to live at home for an extended period, living in VT isn't cheap. But I would like to see some work ethic that says "I see something that needs to be done and I do it", especially out of DD2. She's the "bare minimum to get by type".  Apparently she is more willing if there are $$ involved. Maybe I should pay her minimum wage to work around the house .... then charge her $500/month room and board


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## RollingAcres

Bruce you do a lot(sometimes too much) for your family. I feel like they expect you to...why do something when dear Dad will do it(eventually)? I hope that they appreciate all that you do for them!



Bruce said:


> Apparently she is more willing if there are $$ involved. Maybe I should pay her minimum wage to work around the house .... then charge her $500/month room and board


Ok, you let us know how'd that work out for ya.


----------



## Latestarter

In the animal kingdom, most parents make it near impossible for the offspring to "stay at home". They stop feeding them, or chase them away, or simply leave them, and move on without them. As I recall, DD2 has now graduated college and having said diploma, should be seeking employment in her chosen field. Perhaps it would be in your interest to pay for or hire a professional to assist her in finding that starter position, preferably well beyond daily commute distance, where you can help her start establishing herself as an independent adult who can become self sufficient. In other words, her own apartment that SHE is solely responsible for keeping clean, cooking for herself, etc. As for DD1, she has the migraine obstacle to overcome but since she'll now be attending college, I would surmise that her field of study will lead to a future field of employment as well. It's never easy but the longer it takes to accomplish, the more difficult it will become. In the mean time, might be time for a sit down and enlighten, ground rule establishing discussion with both, establishing the fact that as long as they are living with you, help around the place will be EXPECTED, without being asked, and that there is no more "freeloading" living for them. Make them WANT to leave! 

Wishing you eventual success!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce...pay her, then charge her room and board...that was a great idea you posted.     I got my first job at fifteen, had to give my parents fifty percent toward my room and board plus do all the house work, all the laundry and baby sit my younger brothers and sisters....


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Sorry, i forgot to wish you a wonderful  trip and have a happy time turkey day...


----------



## Bruce

DD1 will likely be more successful finding employment in her field. She wants to do translation and ESL. The "Modern  language" (or whatever is it called) degree at Mt. A. requires 3 languages. She'll be taking Japanese, Spanish and German. The ESL is a secondary thing. Not sure if they have that at Mt. A. or not.

DD2 on the other hand wants to write fantasy novels. Haven't seen any job listings with benefits for fantasy writers. I expect there are plenty of jobs available in the general "Creative Writing" area but that sort of thing isn't what she wants to do. She could easily get a job teaching English in Japan, people do that who haven't taken any Japanese at all and she has that as her second major. But she doesn't want to teach, being out in front of people is not something she is comfortable with.

And yeah there is a fair bit of entitlement going on. Should have been dirt poor, then she would have had to get at least summer jobs in HS and college. Neither DW nor I grew up poor, just basic middle class, and both had jobs in HS, college and went to work soon as we graduated college. Same was true of our siblings. And none of that was because the parents said we needed to. It is what normal people did.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> I suppose you've seen this already....


Nope and


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Same was true of our siblings. And none of that was because the parents said we needed to. It is what normal people did.


Same here. Part time jobs all thru part of Jr High and all of high school. As soon as HS graduation was over, my father told my twin and I we would be paying my mother the princely sum of $85 each per month to my mother IF we were going to continue to live at home. This was for meals and laundry. Needless to say, that meant we both had to get paying jobs (the nonpaying job we already had helping our father didn't count), or get our axxes on out of the nest. Looking back, $85/mo was a bargain compared to what lay ahead.


----------



## farmerjan

Okay, so if she wants to write fantasy novels, why isn't she doing it now as a part-time thing and working another job to help support herself?  Even if she is living home?  Since you and your wife didn't grow up expecting everything to be handed to you, why is she like that?  I worked all through high school because I wanted a horse.  I had to pay for the horse, her feed and hay, all her equipment/tack etc., and pay for the lumber that built her little leanto type barn, which I had to help my dad build... It was my horse, not my father's....  I did not have to pay anything out of my wages to my parents while in school.....BUT had to help babysit for my brothers and sister, help with things like setting the table for dinner, did some cooking which was also good learning and practice, help in the garden during the season, but my brothers got the lawn mowing jobs which was fine with me... did laundry if needed although we didn't do our own due to wasting water so it all got done as bigger loads, helped stack wood for the wood burning stove.  You didn't sit around and let someone else do it.  Once we were earning any outside income, we did not get allowances, like after about 10 or 12.... AND we were expected to keep our grades up.  We shoveled snow off the walkways and in front of the garage doors, but my dad did have a snowplow on his truck after I hit about 12.

I never had my own car living home, but once I had my liscense, was expected to do some of the "carting" of the kids to after school stuff.  If I got to use the car then I was expected to put gas in it at least as much as I used out of it. I paid the extra costs on the family insurance for me being on their policy.

Once graduated from high school, we were given the "summer off free" (no board but still had to help with stuff) but once the first of Sept rolled around, you either went to college, or got married (my option) or was working and paying board to help offset the costs of you living there. $100/ month in 1971 for starters.  I cannot for the life of me imagine just living off my parents.  Nor did I want to, I wanted some independence.  Even if I lived in their basement...as so many "milenials do"...  it certainly would not be for free.

I can see some of the problems with the DD with the migraines, but still, does DD2 think that because her sister gets it a little easier due to the health issues, that she should get a free ride?  And is she getting student loans to go to school or are you footing that bill too?  My folks would pay for college classes, loans and all, but we had to buy our books and help with the housing and such.  I should have gone to college....except I wouldn't have my kid.

Sorry, it just seems that by making their lives easier, as we all want to do for our kids, and that's not all bad, but  you and your wife have busted your axxes  with no appreciation for how tough life is and they are really going beyond.... whatever to take advantage of you and you are letting them.

Okay, only MY OPINION and you can tell me to go pound sand...


----------



## Baymule

Bruce you aren't the only one who has grown kids at home. It seems to be a pretty common thing these days. I don't get it. I was out of the house at 17, had a job, apartment and was still in high school.


----------



## greybeard

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> and "The Chevy got stuck and the Ford got stuck".


Corb Lund sings that and  is near the top of my favorite entertainers.


----------



## Rammy

When I was in high school, I had a job. My parents bought me a car, but I had to pay the loan, pay for my share of the insurance, and keep gas in it.  Once it was paid for, I got the title. I remember my final payment was $18 dollars.  My parents never gave us an allowance. We were expected to help with the housework, cook, clean, even do the yard work when necessary. My sister and I rotated who did what each week. One week I was entirely in charge of laundry, cleaning the bathrooms, and my sister would be in charge of the vacumming, and she would be in charge of the cooking and cleaning of the kitchen.
When I turned 18, and still lived at home, I was expected to help pay for the utilities. I would give so much out of my check from work to help with the expenses. I never resented it or questioned it. I was what was expected and was told would be expected as long as I lived there. I think it helped make me the financially responsible person I am today. I cant say that for my brother or sister, as my sister goes thru money like its a hot knife thru butter, and my brother has hardly any savings whatsoever. 
Im certain your daughter has a great future ahead of her and will be successful at whatever she chooses to do. Im glad Im not a parent because I would be scared to death hoping that I would raise a child that would be able to make it on their own when the time came. Being a father can only make it scarier Im sure.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Neither DW nor I grew up poor, just basic middle class, and both had jobs in HS, college and went to work soon as we graduated college


We didn't grow up poor either, same here, basic middle class. I got a job right after HS but still lived at home at the time. Then at 20 left home, left country to come here for college. Got a job working at the college computer lab the 2nd semester of Freshman yr and worked there through college.


----------



## RollingAcres

Rammy said:


> My parents never gave us an allowance. We were expected to help with the housework, cook, clean, even do the yard work when necessary.


Same here.


----------



## Bruce

@farmerjan, go pound sand. 
JUST KIDDING!!!!! But you did tell me to tell you that so I did .

DD2 had to pay for her books, incidentals and travel though when we got tired of driving to Schenectady to pick her up at the train (a mere 3.75 hours each way) I started paying the difference between the train and flying. And travel, on her, included the semester in Japan. Neither kid is a money spender and DD2 can pinch a penny until it bleeds. Not that she minds spending money if it is someone ELSE'S money. 

No loans for school, too many kids getting out of school with crushing debt they may never be able to pay (of course that was a choice they made). Dad set up 529's for his grandkids and DW's parents were also generous and paid some every year. In the end it was about 1/3rd us, 1/3 each grand parent side. Since DD1's 529 has been sitting longer, it is worth more (unless the market goes down of course). But at less cost than Beloit even after the merit scholarship, her education will be cheaper for us. 

DD2's winter job will start after we get back from So. Cal. When the snow stops, she plans to go visit friends in Japan then get a full time job ... maybe as a city carrier for the USPS. DW and I find this most "amusing" given that job requires a lot of walking carrying a lot of weight, in all weather. Not really something DD2 has ever shown any "skill" at or desire for. But no more excuses about her ear surgery coming up and all, that was done in June. She has made mention of wanting to be out on her own, and I suspect that is true, at least so we won't expect her to do things like dishes and vacuuming (the work poor "Cinderella" is expected to do!). Of course those things will have to be done when she lives somewhere else and she'll be doing it. 

And yes, I suspect DD2 sees DD1's "exemptions" as somewhat unfair though I seriously doubt she would want to trade places. DD1 has offered her migraine to DD2 but the offer was not accepted


----------



## farmerjan

@Bruce  Maybe getting out on her own will be the "lightbulb" in her life to doing things and then she can do them HER WAY.  
Thank you for not taking offense.  It just seems that you 2 as parents have done things  for them that my parents would have said  " there's the door, don't let it hit you in the azz on the way out " .  Again, patience of a  " saint " .


----------



## greybeard

Well, there's always going to be sibling rivalry no matter the circumstances. My twin brother and I were just alike in every way and we still often disagreed on how 'fair' each was treated compared to the other. 
Growing up, he got less, of nothing than I did some of the time, and other times, it was reversed.
"Boy, you don't get any."
 "What about me Dad?"
"You?    you don't even get that much."


----------



## Bruce




----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

When I was a teenager in my first year of college (and still living at home), my dad and I started having our "disagreements".  It got so bad that I considered joining the Army (and this was during the height of the Vietnam War) just to get away from home.  Finally, I decided to go and stay with my uncle and his wife in Maryland for awhile.  In the few months I was there, I got to learn just how right my dad was, and that I was the one causing all of the problems.

Maybe DD2 could have an experience like that, to get away from home for awhile, and spend some time with a relative or good friend and see what the real world is like.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## greybeard

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> It got so bad that I considered joining the Army (and this was during the height of the Vietnam War) just to get away from home.


That's exactly how my bother ended up in the US Navy in late 1969.


----------



## Baymule

And my brother joined the Marines.....1967


----------



## Latestarter

And I joined the Navy in '76.


----------



## Bruce

Hmmm, there seems to be a theme!


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Hmmm, there seems to be a theme!


Not for me. I had, from a young age wanted to become a Marine and no matter what was happening within my family, I intended to and did enlist as soon as I came of age.
I did kinda feel bad leaving my brother with so much work, but well..he figured it out.


----------



## Rammy

Teehee!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Mother of a marine here, he did six years and got out on 9/11/01 called and told me because of what just happened, he was re enlisting.... i told him the world had just changed, and no please don't  stay, come home to your new wife. And that was the last time he listened to his mother.


----------



## Mike CHS

I don't mind saying that I enlisted in the Navy to avoid being drafted to serve in the Army.  I graduated in 1969 but the class of 1968 had 6 of the 18 males get drafted and 5 of those were killed in Viet Nam.  I didn't care for those odds so I entered into a delayed enlistment program with the Navy in January 1969 with a scheduled arrival at Boot Camp Great Lakes in June of 1969 about 3 days after graduation.


----------



## Mike CHS

Bruce, what have you been using for your ground hogs?


----------



## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> I don't mind saying that I enlisted in the Navy to avoid being drafted to serve in the Army.  I graduated in 1969 but the class of 1968 had 6 of the 18 males get drafted and 5 of those were killed in Viet Nam.  I didn't care for those odds so I entered into a delayed enlistment program with the Navy in January 1969 with a scheduled arrival at Boot Camp Great Lakes in June of 1969 about 3 days after graduation.



Odds and the prospect of death never entered my mind, back then or since. I know a handful of my graduating class and the one previous died or were wounded in Vn but within my own family, it was only an issue to my parents and sisters, specifically to my mother who had lived thru WW2 and seen the many service flags with the  gold stars. My father accepted it as an inherent risk of the times, as he had during WW2. 

Killed in Vn from the town I went to high school,but not necessarily from my or the previous graduating class...on search The Wall by city and state:
2LT JAMES DOUGLAS CARTER Jr
SSG ARTHUR W DRYNAN
CPT ROYAL CLIFTON FISHER Jr
PFC ROBERT LAWRENCE HALE
PFC VICTOR JAMES HUMPHREY
CPL CHARLES HOWARD KILGORE
SP4 DANIEL PENA Jr
PFC THURSTON CRAIG ROBERTS
PFC JAKE A SIMMONS
PFC ROGER WAYNE SMELSER
SP4 ALBERT WILBER SONNIER
SP4 GEORGE OWEN SPANGLER
SP4 NOE TAMEYOZA
SGT RONALD FREDERICK WILDER


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> Bruce, what have you been using for your ground hogs?


To trap them? Originally the layer feed worked well. Maybe because the little bastards were raiding the feeder daily. That didn't work this year but they went for the all stock sweet feed.

Have you gotten visitors of that nature?


----------



## Mike CHS

There is at least one left down by our storm drain.  I just looked at the havahart site and they listed a few things that I'll try.


----------



## Mini Horses

Your daughter could join the military as an officer with a degree.   Travel the world, have room & board & medical provided.  Write fantasy in her off time hours.    AND get a paycheck.


----------



## greybeard

Mini Horses said:


> Your daughter could join the military as an officer with a degree.    Write fantasy in her off time hours.



NOT to be confused with office hours...


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> There is at least one left down by our storm drain.  I just looked at the havahart site and they listed a few things that I'll try.


Oh, you meant what kind of trap? I think it is this one. 
http://www.havahart.com/large-1-door-animal-trap
Definitely a 1 door trap, have caught coons in it as well.



Mini Horses said:


> Your daughter could join the military as an officer with a degree.   Travel the world, have room & board & medical provided.  Write fantasy in her off time hours.    AND get a paycheck.


  Either daughter in the military


----------



## Rammy

I have a havahart trap and have caught raccoons, possums, cats, chickens in it. Its great. Much better than this one that I got off a woman from CL. She had bought it to catch her cat that got out. It was used once. Nice trap but doesnt work as well as my havahart.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce are you home yet ?


----------



## Bruce

Nope. Red-eye tomorrow night. Will be interesting, JFK should be clear but 7ish inches of snow at home tomorrow and Wednesday. Hope we don't get stuck in JFK though there are worse airports to be stuck in. DD1 got stuck overnight in Newark last summer. Had nothing good to say about it.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Nope. Red-eye tomorrow night. Will be interesting, JFK should be clear but 7ish inches of snow at home tomorrow and Wednesday. Hope we don't get stuck in JFK though there are worse airports to be stuck in. DD1 got stuck overnight in Newark last summer. Had nothing good to say about it.


That would be not be good...got stuck overnight in Charlotte, sat in chair all night....most people slept on carpeted floor...too gross  for me ...have a safe flight and may the magic snow fairies have all your snow neatly plowed out of your way...and your driveway cleared, woodstove full and a meal when you walk in the door !


----------



## Bruce

B&B Happy goats said:


> have a safe flight and may the magic snow fairies have all your snow neatly plowed out of your way...and your driveway cleared, woodstove full and a meal when you walk in the door !


 It WOULD have to be the magic fairies! The only one that knows how to run the garden tractor with snowblower is me. Not because I am greedy and keep that fun task to myself but no one else is interested. DW leaves for work about 6:45, earlier if there is snow on the road so she wouldn't have time to do it in the morning anyway. I did ask if she wanted to learn before I left but I guess not. I suspect she will park close to the road so less shoveling to get the car on it. As you can see the house is pretty close to the road so it isn't like we have a 300' driveway to clear. 


 

We are supposed to land around 10 AM so even if we are delayed we should be stuck all night. Don't know that the woodstove has been running since we left, might have been until Thursday when DD1 came here but DW isn't home to feed it during the day and wouldn't necessarily mess with starting a fire. But we have oil hot air as well and I suspect that has been running.


----------



## Baymule

Nothing says welcome home like a yard full of snow and a cold wood heater.


----------



## Bruce

Yep! And I don't sleep for cow manure on planes so I'll be dead tired, my head will be soggy and I'll need to blow snow for a couple of hours. 

Hopefully DD1 will be able to pick us up at the airport because I do NOT want to think what it would cost to take a cab 25 miles. Probably cheaper to rent a car from Enterprise and drop it up in St. Albans 5 miles from home.


----------



## RollingAcres

Have a safe and smooth flight Bruce!


Bruce said:


> The only one that knows how to run the garden tractor with snowblower is me. Not because I am greedy and keep that fun task to myself but no one else is interested.


They can always shovel.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

My dear friend Bruce,  Although i am very sorry that you may have snow issues to deal with, wood to haul in to start the fire and a night of travel  ...without sleep.... what on earth are these women in your life going to do if something happened to you and you couldn't  do  everything for them. Do they know how to put air in a tire ? Gas up the tank ? Change a tire ? Plow the snow ?  Start the woodstove ? , these are basic survival  skills all woman should know (JMO) ... particularly  living  in snow country.  D o I need to make a road trip to give you a hand ?...hope you get some sleep....and the fairies  did show up.


----------



## RollingAcres

B&B Happy goats said:


> Do they know how to put air in a tire ? Gas up the tank ? Change a tire ? Plow the snow ? Start the woodstove ? , these are basic survival skills all woman should know (JMO) ... particularly living in snow country



Agree!
They might know how to do all of that but if dear Brucey is there, why not let him do all of it.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Being from that area myself...i am stupidified (if thats a word) that he does it all.....Bruce you are either way to nice....way to soft ...... well, .....if the hoof fits ...?       Well i guess it's  easier to pick on you when your not right here to give me a quick.... It just makes me sad that in this day and age ...some women don't  don't  know HOW or are not WILLING to do some  MAN U AL LABOR.... ok, i will zip it ....


----------



## Mini Horses

IMO women need to know how to survive the things mentioned.  Before I was allowed to drive alone, my dad made me learn to change a tire, etc.  Practicing the skills will help with confidence and actual help in doing.

THAT SAID -- I'm thinking Bruce is secretly enjoying doing many of these things.  Being a gentleman and feeling it is "a man's job".   Kudos for the excellent training in manners and now,  it's time to make sure the ladies can do more.  Especially the young ones.

In today's world, where consideration for life is not high on some human lists, they need to be able to handle their lives, fending for themselves and being able to not have to depend on a partner for necessities. This training in part of love. You bring them into the world, raise them to adults, then allow them to fledge.


----------



## greybeard

Mini Horses said:


> THAT SAID -- I'm thinking Bruce is secretly enjoying doing many of these things. Being a gentleman and feeling it is "a man's job".


I too, suspect this to be the case..the more 'traditional family' way of doing things. 
Not saying the girls should have to do it, but probably need to know HOW to do it if the need arises.


----------



## Rammy

Hey, y'all. Give the poor man some credit. If I lived in his house too, Id be telling him what to do also.


----------



## RollingAcres

@Rammy You're already "living" in @Latestarter 's private island mansion...now you want to live in @Bruce house as well?


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Agree!
> They might know how to do all of that but if dear Brucey is there, why not let him do all of it.


That would be the case other than knowing how to run the blower and they could probably figure that out. Only DD2 has run the mower so DW and DD1 would likely have to call to find out how to start it. No key so you have to push push the buttons to enter the combination and push the start button when it turns green. Can't have a combination less that 1 number so if y'all want to come blow the parking area before I get there, the combination is '2'  It has an electric winch to raise and lower the blower, the switch is on the right side of the engine cover. 

DW had a job mowing lawns as a teen, one guy had a rider that she used on his property. And she used to plow with the Scout at her parent's house way back when. Frankly, and I know I'm not insulting anyone here, there is NO WAY I would ever marry a "helpless woman". 

DW and the girls can and will shovel (dd2 pretty much has to grouse some since she doesn't get paid cash money to do it) but DW working 6 days a week 35 miles away and at this time of year, she leaves before the sun comes up and gets home after it is down. Doesn't really have time to build fires in the morning. She and DD1 will shovel the walking path to the cars and shovel what is needed to be able to park and get out in the road. About the same amount of space as the driveway at the prior house, 3 vehicles. No one is going to shovel the entire drive through parking area including me! We don't get huge plow "walls" out in the country though because the plow is moving fast enough to throw the snow, no just push it to the side like at the old house. 

And, since I don't do anything (to quote DD2 once), I have time to do things like start fires and blow snow. They will put wood in the stove and it is possible that DD1 started a fire after she got back though when I called last night she was really wiped from traveling and classes yesterday. Easier to just let the oil furnace heat that part of the house.  

And yes @greybeard, I do the "heavy lifting". DD1 wanted to learn how to change a tire after she got a flat (razor sharp small rock!!) a few months ago. I had to make her a cheater bar to get the lug nuts off. Those little bent 1' irons are really minimal. The old cross ones were way better since you could push down and pull up exerting more force. Of course if one doesn't mind waiting there is always AAA for that.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

RollingAcres said:


> @Rammy You're already "living" in @Latestarter 's private island mansion...now you want to live in @Bruce house as well?


Omg...this is getting way to funny...poor Bruce, ..... he needs to become the chracter in the movie "BRUCE ALMIGHTY " ....He would get some things changed then


----------



## greybeard

I found it easier to buy a few cans of fix-a-flat and a cig lighter powered air compressor to keep in her car than teach one of my family how to get the spare tire out and change it. Blowout=cell phone call and most of the time I'm on the receiving end of the call.
And yes, a 4-way was much better than the dinky lug wrench that comes with most vehicles nowadays. Lots easier to reach the 90-125 lbs torque most passenger car wheel nuts require.
A 1' long lug wrench means you have to exert a full 100lbs of force to get 100 ft lbs of torque on the nut. A 4 way close to 2' total length means each arm only has to exert 50lbs of force to get the same 100lbs of toque on the nut. (the use of lbs in this instance is completely circumstantial, as force is correctly noted in newtons or joules except where lbf (pound-force) is used, which isn't very often at all) lbf is completely different than ft lbs.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> since I don't do anything (to quote DD2 once), I have time to do things like start fires and blow snow



That's right, you don't do anything other than being on BYH and chit chat with us all day long...


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Well Bruce, ya gotta know we all love ya and have alot of fun teasing you....I would come get the snow out of the way for you but you will be home before i could get there.   stay warm


----------



## Rammy

RollingAcres said:


> @Rammy You're already "living" in @Latestarter 's private island mansion...now you want to live in @Bruce house as well?


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> @Rammy You're already "living" in @Latestarter 's private island mansion...now you want to live in @Bruce house as well?


She wants to help as many as she can! 



greybeard said:


> I found it easier to buy a few cans of fix-a-flat and a cig lighter powered air compressor to keep in her car than teach one of my family how to get the spare tire out and change it. Blowout=cell phone call and most of the time I'm on the receiving end of the call.


That would be HIGHLY expensive. The TPS monitor Toyota uses cost about $115/tire. The fix a flat stuff would destroy it.



RollingAcres said:


> That's right, you don't do anything other than being on BYH and chit chat with us all day long...


Exactly!!!! Though I have more time to do it than some, rarely sleep more than 6 hours.


----------



## greybeard

Perhaps, but how often do you really have a flat? And when we do, we have the tire fixed or replaced at 1st opportunity so the tire place is going to break the tire off the wheel regardless. At that point, they can change the TPM sensor if needed. (They are only about $50 for my Chevy Silverado.) 
None of us really worry about the cost when trying to get a family member off the side of the road. 



Bruce said:


> Exactly!!!! Though I have more time to do it than some, rarely sleep more than 6 hours.


 Good man. 
Sleep is over rated. I'll catch up when i die.


----------



## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> And, since I don't do anything (to quote DD2 once), I have time to do things like start fires and blow snow



Sounds fair to me!!  



Bruce said:


> The old cross ones were way better since you could push down and pull up exerting more force. Of course if one doesn't mind waiting there is always AAA for that



Actually, an extender pole is in my trunk, upon which I must stand and bounce to loosen some!    Yep, I do have road service on my policy.  Was towed once.


See what happens wen you leave home???  WE POUNCE.


----------



## RollingAcres

Mini Horses said:


> See what happens wen you leave home??? WE POUNCE.



Hahahaha so true!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Are you still plowing.....putting  wood in the stove or sleeping ? We miss you......????


----------



## Bruce

Got home pretty much on schedule. Plane landed somewhat late in Burlington, had to wait for them to plow the runway. DD1 picked us up but since things were running behind schedule, she didn't have time to bring us home and go back for classes so we dropped her at her friend's house where she leaves her car and walks to the campus, not far and saves a lot of parking lot money. 

Drove the 20 miles home, spent 3 hours blowing snow including clearing the car off. Cleared the car off again starting at 7 and left at 7:15 to get DD1 at 7:30 ... make that 8. The road we usually take to the interstate when we go south is notoriously poor in snow, that town doesn't plow well so had to go north 3 miles then retrace south on the interstate. Road was sloppy and it was snowing, interstate was the same for the first 10 miles. Not real speedy.

Got her home, took a shower. Been up since 8 AM EST Tuesday and it is now 9:30 PM Wednesday. Going to bed.



greybeard said:


> Perhaps, but how often do you really have a flat? And when we do, we have the tire fixed or replaced at 1st opportunity so the tire place is going to break the tire off the wheel regardless. At that point, they can change the TPM sensor if needed.


DD1 has had 2 flats this year, one small but very sharp rock, one screw. Both plugged. I "oops" a curb a couple of months ago (guess I get that Zinger™ award), did the sidewall in of course. Bill got me a new tire, still have the same 4 TPMS sensors that were put in the wheels when it was new in 2009. At least I ASSUME so since I bought it used when it was 3 years old. I put the mini spare on myself because 

I can
I don't want to wait for AAA to show up.


----------



## Mike CHS

That was a long day.  Have a good nights sleep.


----------



## Latestarter

Welcome home, safe and sound. Rest will make a huge difference. Get it while you can!


----------



## greybeard

_
"Yesterday at 8:36 PM



*Bruce*

Got home pretty much on schedule.....and it is now 9:30 PM Wednesday. Going to bed."_

Good to hear you made the trip ok.
You've now  had 4 of those six hrs you said you  need so I guess in another 2 hours you'll be up and roaring to go again.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce, glad to hear that you made it home safe.


----------



## Bruce

Slept 7 hours. Fell asleep again reading forums  
Went out at noon and spent 3 hours shoveling "heart attack" snow off the decks. About 16" where it wasn't "slid off the roof" snow, 3' there. Not done but got a lot of the weight off the old less than sturdy deck. Tired.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Sorry you have so much snow ...  winter will be over in May........no rush Bruce


----------



## Baymule

I don't have to shovel sunshine......or even rain.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Fell asleep again reading forums



Guess we bored you to sleep!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

Glad you made it home safely.  Your mentioning snow makes me glad we have to deal with it so little down here.  (Of, course, I envy you when it's 100º F down here.)  It is very pretty to look at, but a pain when you have to go to work and back.

So get some rest.  We want you to be able to continue to post on your adventures.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## CntryBoy777

I've never flown coast-to-coast, but I have driven it....picked up a container at the port near LA and returned the container in Jersey City.....it took a couple of days to recoop from it and that was with some down down along the way.....I'm sure ya will need a few days to get over that jet-lag and get things feeling back to normal..........glad to hear it was a safe trip there and back....sorry that your work "piled up" on ya while ya was gone.....


----------



## B&B Happy goats

BRUCE. ..whats up?  are you rested and settled back home, caught up on work and enjoying your day ?  Hope you got a lazy boy recliner day tommrow


----------



## Bruce

Seem to be back to normal ... fighting the urge to sleep when I'm not moving and wrestling with it when I am moving, narcolepsy is like that. Moved, refilled, replaced the wood rack on the porch landing yesterday. Still about 1 rack left in the stacked wood then on to the pre-filled racks though I don't know if that will be dry enough to burn. Guess I will see. 

Out to dinner at the Thai restaurant last night with DW, 28th anniversary.

Above freezing today, possibility of rain though not seeing it, just really heavy cloud cover. Lots of snow on the barn roof, I expect, actually hope since it is heavy, it will slide. 
Big excitement today will be doing Quicken updates and account reconciling with statements. Yep, exciting to be sure.


----------



## Mike CHS

Congratulations on your anniversary


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Big excitement today will be doing Quicken updates and account reconciling with statements. Yep, exciting to be sure.


Oh wow! Now that IS something to look forward to...bet you can hardly wait to get started but you do realize of course, the terrible emptiness and loss of purpose that always follows when you are done and have keyed that last 'click to save'.  Buck up...........something will come along in the next few weeks to make life worth living again, tho admittedly,  it won't be quite the same..never is.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Hope your snow slides gently off the barn roof when animals are inside sleeping...have a restful day.


----------



## Bruce

B&B Happy goats said:


> Hope your snow slides gently off the barn roof when animals are inside sleeping...have a restful day.


 
That kind of snow never falls gently. And it has to drop about 12'. Gonna be quite the "WHOOMP" when it lands. 

You are right @greybeard, there will be no joy in my life once I've finished those tasks


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> That kind of snow never falls gently. And it has to drop about 12'. Gonna be quite the "WHOOMP" when it lands.


I've seen some videos in which people get up there and ride the snow to the ground...sometimes intentionally, sometimes not. It seems to be a 'thing' in some of the Nordic countries..a sport of sorts..
Language warning!!


----------



## Bruce

Yeah? Just slightly more safe than getting caught in an avalanche? 
Hold my beer, I'm going up.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Yeah? Just slightly more safe than getting caught in an avalanche?
> Hold my beer, I'm going up.


Bruce have you ever had a blood transfusion? Maybe somehow some southerner redneck DNA got mixed up in it somehow...…


----------



## greybeard

Be my luck I'd get 1/2 way down and come astraddle a plumbing vent pipe....


----------



## farmerjan

greybeard said:


> Be my luck I'd get 1/2 way down and come astraddle a plumbing vent pipe....


----------



## Bruce

OW! Well, not on that roof no stack. In fact that might be preferable to getting whatever part of your body is in contact with the roof from getting ripped up by the hex heads on all the roofing screws.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Awww....ya'd never fell it til the chilling numb went away and ya was already down to earth.....YeeHaw!!!!.....


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> OW! Well, not on that roof no stack. In fact that might be preferable to getting whatever part of your body is in contact with the roof from getting ripped up by the hex heads on all the roofing screws.


I'm a hardax but not that hard.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Out to dinner at the Thai restaurant last night with DW, 28th anniversary.



Sorry to just now respond; I was out tearing up more equipment Sat and Sun and will post about it later.  Congratulations on your anniversary!  That is quite an accomplishment for you two.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Out to dinner at the Thai restaurant last night with DW, 28th anniversary.


Happy belated Anniversary! Hope you enjoyed the Thai food.



Baymule said:


> Bruce have you ever had a blood transfusion? Maybe somehow some southerner redneck DNA got mixed up in it somehow...…






greybeard said:


> Be my luck I'd get 1/2 way down and come astraddle a plumbing vent pipe....


----------



## Latestarter

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Congratulations on your anniversary! That is quite an accomplishment for you two_._


 Oh my!  Just kidding... kinda... With all the idiosyncrasies Bruce has described here, involving ALL females under their household roof, an anniversary is a wonder. Statistics show that these type anniversaries are becoming more and more rare. Congrats for hanging in there Bruce! Of course we here all know that Bruce has no idiosyncrasies, though the above mentioned females may disagree...   Sorry you had to settle for Thai food vice a nice leg of lamb.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Congrats for hanging in there Bruce! Of course we here all know that Bruce has no idiosyncrasies, though the above mentioned females may disagree...


Bruce's handling/acceptance and surviving all of the things going on within (and without) his household IS his idiosyncrasy.
Congrats on the 28 years. I'm 4 years behind..


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Sorry you had to settle for Thai food vice a nice leg of lamb.


Would have had to cook that myself, if Mike had sent me one . And while DW would have eaten it, she wouldn't be too excited. She had a spicy ginger seafood thing with shrimp, squid and scallops. I had garlic duck.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad ya had a nice dinner and I would vote for your choice, too!!.....I overlooked your anniversary announcement and wishing ya a Happy one....sorry 'bout that.........I do like duck, but not seafood.....


----------



## Bruce

I like seafood but that one was spicy, I don't do spicy.


----------



## Bruce

Not real exciting but figure I should post on my own thread occasionally 

There is some underground water running into the pond, even with the really cold temps the south end hasn't frozen. The southern end is the higher elevation but shallowest part.

Had some snow a week or so back, was above freezing yesterday and Friday so some of it melted. Chickens very happy since they have some grass to wander around, they won't come out of the barn in the snow. They are happily out foraging. One of the EEs laid an egg today, quite unexpected as I've never had an EE lay at this time of year other than their first year. I don't have any EE pullets this year. Not expecting this to continue through the winter.

Took advantage of the lessening snow and took the tractor out to the edge of the woods to pull out some trees I had felled some weeks ago. Yes I DID check those lug nuts first! Also dropped a tree I had marked but didn't have time to cut last time I was out. Not sure how much wood I have in 16" rounds or "logs" ready to split. Still too much snow on the wood I previously cut to 16" to split and supposed to get more snow tomorrow, maybe 2".  Supposed to get up over freezing the end of the week so maybe the new stuff and some old will melt off. I have 3 racks full (1 cord) I rearranged the 3 racks so they are easy to get to when they are needed at the porch. The boards I had on the ground to keep the racks from freezing in were frozen to the ground, had to bash them loose. I have 1 rack half full though I'm not sure I can even move that one. It is on the ground right next to where I split, not on any "shims".


----------



## RollingAcres

Rain, freezing rain turning into snow today. Supposed to start later thus evening but it already started at my house about  an hours ago.


----------



## Bruce

Ah freezing rain, everyone's favorite!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

I hope it has melted by tomorrow for both of y'all's sake, since you and/or your spouses will need to drive to work.  Ice skating on the way to work is no fun!


----------



## Bruce

Pretty exciting day here on the "Farm". 
If you are into BORING! 

Went grocery shopping, Thursday is the day I drive 25 miles to the healthy food store, only place I can get some things DW requires. Had plans to split at least a run if not a run and a half since it was dry and reasonably warm (read "above freezing") but by the time I got the empty rack off the porch landing, freed up the half full rack from the ground with a 3' crowbar (*), got the rear weight off the GT so I could pull the splitter out of the little barn and get it set up it was already 2:45. 

Got DD1 and her BF (visiting from Indiana) to come out and help. Typical response when I asked:
"Oh Joy". I don't think there was an eye roll with it but it was that tone of voice. Yep, can't help out without at least a complaint of some sort. DD runs the splitter, we ran a few rounds so the BF learned what to do (city boy ) then I went to snack the chickens and the alpacas and close the barn.

By the time we got the half rack full and moved to the storage location it was getting dark. Rain tomorrow and Saturday. Maybe we can split and fill that empty rack Sunday. You can sure tell the rounds that were cut from a tree that was live when I felled it. Water squished out as the wedge started to push in. I might be splitting wood for the NEXT heating season! It might make sense to hold the stuff I split now and later in the season to the end and start burning the stuff on the porch once the 3 racks that were filled a month or more back are used up. Or, if they aren't burning well, even sooner. Trial and error I guess. 

* didn't want to use the tractor, if it was really frozen in I could have ripped the 3 bottom boards off and left them in the ground.


----------



## Baymule

So how did the BF do on log splitting? I like the way you operate...… he's sitting on your sofa, soaking up the heat that your hard work provides, so yeah, get him some learning on where that heat comes from!


----------



## farmerjan

Let DD1 and the BF have their own place, and pay for the fuel oil, or propane(natural) gas and see how much of an "oh joy"  attitude they have......  
Bless you , your "kids" get to me. They are like 2 yr olds when you need some help to help keep THEIR BUTTS warm and comfortable.  Not to mention all that you do for them with the cars and snow tires and whatever else....


----------



## RollingAcres

Since you didn't get an eye roll from DD1, I'll give you one .

Raining here as well. Today is a total washout but 52 degrees, warm. Tomorrow no rain and high 40s, warm as well. Then the temperature is going to drop back down to 30s but I don't care because I won't be around!


----------



## Bruce

Um, you aren't planning to go to the great beyond some time today I hope @RollingAcres !!

Yeah it is annoying. If I am dumb enough to say "I'm going to be doing xyz, who wants to help" even DW gives me a "Don't want to but I will" response. Of course she works 6 days a week and does laundry on Sunday.  

BF did fine. Once they were out there it was OK.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Um, you aren't planning to go to the great beyond some time today I hope @RollingAcres !!
> 
> Yeah it is annoying. If I am dumb enough to say "I'm going to be doing xyz, who wants to help" even DW gives me a "Don't want to but I will" response. Of course she works 6 days a week and does laundry on Sunday.
> 
> BF did fine. Once they were out there it was OK.


No no, not going to the great beyond. 

I usually say to my son "hey buddy, come help me please" or "why don't you help me please?"
I hope she only does laundry for you and her.


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> I hope she only does laundry for you and her.



Um, sure if you say so 
DD2 does her own sheets. I'm allowed to do my white socks 'cause I can't screw that up. Pretty much everything is put in the various hampers and the dark colds get washed as a unit, and the dark warms, etc.


----------



## greybeard

Yall do things differently than around my house when the boys were still here...*and certainly differently than when I was young and still at my parents*.
No help-no eat.

"You gonna  help or just sit around like a bucket of stale urine all day?"
(only he didn't say 'urine')


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Um, sure if you say so
> DD2 does her own sheets. I'm allowed to do my white socks 'cause I can't screw that up. Pretty much everything is put in the various hampers and the dark colds get washed as a unit, and the dark warms, etc.


I've done all my own laundry since age 17. Being 'not a slave to fashion' means I don't worry too much about color matching (being color blind makes it impossible anyway).


----------



## Bruce

DD2 had to do her own laundry at college for 4 years. She CAN do it but I guess DW figures there are so many combinations of colors and water temps, it is basically one load of each whether the girls' clothes are in there or not. I think DD1 does some of her stuff sometimes. I don't pay a lot of attention. However she will be doing her own when we drop her at college in 2 weeks. Of course DD1 "sat around like a bucket of stale urine all day?" most of the summer, could have been doing all the laundry as far as I'm concerned. I leave that to DW.


----------



## Bruce

Changed the water for the pond fish this morning. I put them in a clear container so I could take pictures
Top



Side


No idea what kind of fish they are. I bet if I ask Google to find it, I will be told they are probably fish.

ETA

Best guess for this image: common yabby

Which is a freshwater Australian crayfish

Yeah, thanks for that helpful info Google


Split a run of wood yesterday to fill the rack I had emptied in the morning. Took nearly 2 hours. The "help" had gone the grocery store, then got "lost" at the game store. Of course I hadn't asked for help either.


----------



## Latestarter

Well hell Bruce... there ya go! It's all your own fault! Can't expect them kids to read your mind and volunteer themselves to help you do any work. If you don't ask, they have to assume that you don't WANT them to help...


----------



## Bruce

At least they went to the grocery store. The night before DD1 said she was going to be out of milk. Who was going to the store to buy more?  I told her she has a car and knows where the stores are.


----------



## CntryBoy777

They look like yellow perch...if not, they are of the sunfish family....they are kin to bream and bass....but are mainly found in colder water and bream and bass prefer warmer water...except for the small mouth bass....they prefer cooler temps and current....whether stream, creek, river, or a large body of water where currents are produced by the wind....


----------



## Bruce

I wonder how much they change from juveniles to adults. These seem to have a continuous dorsal fin which wouldn't match the perch or bass but would match Pumpkinseeds/Bluegills/Crappie. But they don't have that tall body.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, if there's open water access to the pond, why not put them back? I would imagine it's pretty much filled by this point with the rain and snow you've had. I'm sure there are plenty of nutrients there to carry them through the winter as well with everything you stirred up. Unless of course you've had them long enough to consider them house pets...


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is still a bit faint, but if ya look along the dorsel fin ya can make out the points of the distinctive bars....or stripes....of the yellow perch....the others that ya mentioned are others in the sunfish family and are much smaller than bream and chances of seeing them deminish as ya head north.....Crappie...or Specs as they are also known by....inhabit deep water and only come to the shallower water each year to spawn....they are a true "schooling" fish and travel in groups of similar sizes.....they also have a very delicate mouth and if ya ain't use to catching then....ya will bring back just the lips on the hook....they are called paper-mouths by quite a few too...


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Well, if there's open water access to the pond, why not put them back? I would imagine it's pretty much filled by this point with the rain and snow you've had. I'm sure there are plenty of nutrients there to carry them through the winter as well with everything you stirred up. Unless of course you've had them long enough to consider them house pets...


Because I think the change from 65°F water to probably not much more than 32°F water would kill them instantly.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir,

Do you think you could put the fish in a large bowl and gradually cool the bowl to the cool temperature?  And maybe I missed it somewhere, but did you get the fish from your pond back when you cleaned it out and have saved them all this time, or did you get the fish from some other place?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

The fish somehow managed to live in the muck puddle that the tadpoles were in, the one we were adding water to so the tadpoles wouldn't die while I worked on the north end of the pond and waited for rain. We saw scores of fish and tadpoles die as the pond dried up and they were stuck in little pockets of water that disappeared. And the heron came daily to help further reduce the population.

How these two fish(there were 2 others that were dead when I found these) rode the "river" of mud down when the muck collapsed (*) I do not know. Never saw any fish after that event, though we did see tadpoles. I have no idea what any of them ate or how the fish breathed in the super mucky water but figured muddy water was not unusual for tadpoles.

I don't know how I could cool the water gradually and actually get it to pond temperature. Plus, IN CASE I happen to have and Adam and an Eve, I'd like them to have the chance to get big enough to maybe reproduce in the spring out in the pond. I have no idea what is out there for them to eat now. There is algae but I don't know what they eat (clearly NOT algae because there was always a ton of it when the water started to warm in the spring) and if it is insects or similar, I doubt there is much out there now. But the pond IS full.  

* go back however many pages to see where I got in trouble with DW and DD for trying to stop the flow.


----------



## Baymule

You could put them in your daughter's bathtub so they could "save" them all winter....


----------



## Rammy

Baymule said:


> You could put them in your daughter's bathtub so they could "save" them all winter....


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> The fish somehow managed to live in the muck puddle that the tadpoles were in, the one we were adding water to so the tadpoles wouldn't die while I worked on the north end of the pond and waited for rain. We saw scores of fish and tadpoles die as the pond dried up and they were stuck in little pockets of water that disappeared. And the heron came daily to help further reduce the population.
> 
> How these two fish(there were 2 others that were dead when I found these) rode the "river" of mud down when the muck collapsed (*) I do not know. Never saw any fish after that event, though we did see tadpoles. I have no idea what any of them ate or how the fish breathed in the super mucky water but figured muddy water was not unusual for tadpoles.
> 
> I don't know how I could cool the water gradually and actually get it to pond temperature. Plus, IN CASE I happen to have and Adam and an Eve, I'd like them to have the chance to get big enough to maybe reproduce in the spring out in the pond. I have no idea what is out there for them to eat now. There is algae but I don't know what they eat (clearly NOT algae because there was always a ton of it when the water started to warm in the spring) and if it is insects or similar, I doubt there is much out there now. But the pond IS full.
> 
> * go back however many pages to see where I got in trouble with DW and DD for trying to stop the flow.




You sure one is a girl and one is a boy? Could be Adam and Steve you know. No baby fishies if thats the case.


----------



## Bruce

I did say IN CASE 'cause I have NO idea what gender they are other than the odds are good that the choices for each are either male or female. 

Actually I COULD put them in DDs bathtub, for two reasons:

We are taking DD1 to New Brunswick starting in a week and leaving her there for the winter.
No one uses the bathtub. In fact, I've never even put on the spout or put up the bar for the hand held shower (no stupid fixed shower heads for me!!), there is no curtain or door and there are 4 stacking drying racks sitting on the bathtub.


----------



## Rammy

Fish pond in a house. How modern


----------



## Bruce

Well you know, once you have the tennis room with 4 courts, olympic ice rink, basketball court, football field, baseball field, olympic size pool complete with 10 meter boards, 6 lane bowling alley, you have to find SOMETHING to fill up the extra space! Why not fish pond?


----------



## Bruce

Had just over 30°F today. It was a good day to split the remaining rounds I had. Still have logs to block to 16" but no time today. This time of year a good day to split means around freezing or higher, no snow on the ground, no snow or rain coming from the sky. Likely to get some of both tonight and tomorrow.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It was 84° here today.....


----------



## Bruce

Oh, TOO HOT for splitting wood!


----------



## Baymule

30 degrees? Aww heck no! I'm keeping my southern self inside! LOL


----------



## Bruce

30°F is fine when its has been down at or below 0°F several times already. Besides, you are moving when working with wood. Don't even need a hat at 30°F.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> 30°F is fine when its has been down at or below 0°F several times already. Besides, you are moving when working with wood. Don't even need a hat at 30°F.


I put on my sweat material hoodie with my Carhartt over it at 40 degrees. LOL LOL


----------



## Bruce

Long sleeve cotton shirt and Carhartt jacket was fine today, didn't even have the flannel lined jeans on, just plain denim. Going to be warm pretty much through tomorrow then a low of 4°F Wednesday at 7AM. Seeing as how the chickens won't likely come out of the barn at that temp, no reason for me to hurry out either  Should be 11° by 10 AM though not going much higher. Then it warms back up to above freezing for the start of our trip to New Brunswick.


----------



## CntryBoy777

When I get a place Bruce, ya will always be Welcome to come thaw out for as long as ya wish....and ya can even entertain Gabbie while ya are doing so.....


----------



## farmerjan

Is your DD getting excited about going to the school?


----------



## greybeard

It was pretty nice today, tho misting rain at times. The big rain that was forecast failed to materialize, but so foggy tonight you can't see across the yard. Currently 45 deg and high tomorrow will be 60. I see a little green popping up in some places in the pastures.
Almost Indian Summer-like.


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Is your DD getting excited about going to the school?


Yeah, packing. Also a bit stressed, not unexpected. We did find out that we don't have to get her car insured separately up there. She will have to buy a phone though and it is going to cost. No cheap TracFone up there, we've managed to stay away from expensive contract phones til now. She has researched the services available and I guess we are going to a store in St. John Friday and buy a phone. Also opening her a bank account up there that day. Dinner at Taste of Egypt. That is where we had lunch on the way back last time and where I found lamb  Then Sat AM we head the 2 hours north to Sackville. She can't get into the dorm until 10 AM though that is about when she usually wakes up so most likely we won't be there before noon.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Dinner at Taste of Egypt. That is where we had lunch on the way back last time and where I found lamb


You should call ahead to make sure they have lamb!


----------



## Bruce

Well they either do or they don't  It is on their fixed menu. If they don't have it there were plenty of other tasty things.


----------



## RollingAcres

Have a safe drive to St John and Sackville. Enjoy your lamb dinner!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Be safe Bruce, you know there are alot of idiots  driving crazy this time of year up that way !


----------



## Bruce

No idiots up there thankfully. Dropped her off yesterday afternoon, went to the parent info meeting then went to a nice B&B in Cocagne north of Moncton (which is about 1/2 hour west of Mt. A.). Drove to Bangor today, will drive home tomorrow.


----------



## Mike CHS

I thought about you this evening when the news was on.  Evidently there has been a rash of thefts of car lug nuts in Nashville.  No idea what that would be about.


----------



## Bruce

Well if anyone wants to steal the "locking" nuts on my car they can have them  . What a pain those things are, just leave the other 4 regular nuts on each wheel. 

It is bizarre someone is stealing car lug nuts. They aren't that expensive.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Well if anyone wants to steal the "locking" nuts on my car they can have them


No thanks you can keep them. lol


----------



## Bruce

If I find your house, I'll swap my 4 locking ones for 4 of your regular ones. Of course I'll have to find a way to distract you first. Oh, and I'll throw in the "key" socket since I'm such a nice guy!


----------



## RollingAcres




----------



## greybeard

I've seen those 'key sockets' strip out or the lug pattern the key fits into strip and the dang lug has to be cut off or rednecked in some way to get it off.,,usually on the side of the road in a pouring rain..


----------



## Bruce

Yep, they are a PITA. Came on the car. DD1 has them as well and I really doubt my in laws got them on purpose when they bought the car in 2010. Really should just get some regular ones and be done with it.


----------



## Bruce

There were originally 3 round hay bales for the alpacas. Standing "on end", they are ~5' "tall". One in the back left corner of the alpacas' "sorry you can't use it because you treat it as a toilet" stall, one in the back right and one front right. When I went to snack and close up this afternoon I needed to get the string off the second round bale having finished off the first this morning. As I was removing the string from the back right bale, I happened to look at the one on the left. There was a nest of 10 white eggs right in the middle of the roll. 8 were frozen/cracked. Perhaps the other two were today and yesterday's eggs, it was only about 25°F last night. I suppose little Lana the Golden Campine has been flying through the horizontal bars on the stall door. I had found 2 or 3 smallish white eggs a couple of weeks ago but they were in the nest box where they belong. Guess I now have to check the hay roll as well.


----------



## Latestarter

Sounds like someone has found the perfect nest!


----------



## Bruce

It is pretty nice. The hay roll makes a natural concave area in the center and pre-lined with hay. No work for the hen at all. Could be a problem when roll number 2 is used up though. What to do, feed the alpacas and mess up her nest or let the alpacas starve


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> What to do, feed the alpacas and mess up her nest or let the alpacas starve


I think we know the 2nd option is not going to be the one chosen.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> What to do, feed the alpacas and mess up her nest or let the alpacas starve


Leave that bale there for the hen. Buy another bale to feed the alpacas.


----------



## Latestarter

Heck with that! Put the hen back where she belongs in a nest box and feed out that hay!


----------



## Bruce

I can't really put the hen "back" since she and the others have free access to the entire lower part of the barn. Only the girls that came as day olds last April dare go in with the Alpacas though. Which is weird since the 2017 April chicks also spent their early days in with the boys. The boys don't seem to see chicks as anything other than the small wild birds that fly in and out of the barn. Much less of a problem for the littles than the older hens that see the new birds as competition.

RA, I don't know that Al has any more hay. Last year was serious drought, he was lucky to get the one cutting before it started. He usually does two and sometimes three. There is a corner grain feeder in the stall. I'd have to cut it out since the guy we bought this place from had a penchant for driving screws until the bit jumps and strips the screw head. Perhaps once I need to get too far into that third bale the silly bird will either decide to use the nest box or the corner feeder if I put some hay in it.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> RA, I don't know that Al has any more hay


Actually I was trying to be a smarta** with the buying another bale comment. Feed the alpacas the hay. I'm sure the hen will adapt and find a new place to lay her eggs.


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## Bruce

I know! 
I was going to suggest the alpacas can just go paw through the snow and find something to eat. After all in the Andes they live at around 10,000'. Of course there are also (to my knowledge) no alpacas in the wild. They are the domesticated descendants of vicuñas. Probably don't spend a lot of time struggling to find food for themselves.


----------



## RollingAcres

Did you dig yourself out of the snow yet? 

Did your DD's work let them stay at the resort an extra day?
How's your DD1 doing in college?


----------



## Bruce

Yes up in the car area. Used the big tractor yesterday. Used the blower on the garden tractor today. Then ended up having to park it in the barn facing in because once the chains on the rear wheels hit frozen ground they just polish it ever finer, wheels spinning. Couldn't back up the hill to turn around and back in. I don't know if I could get it backed up and turned around if I took the heavy blower off. Of course then I would have to figure out how to get the blower back in the front. I shoveled down to the lower barn door a few times to get to the animals. The wind funnels through between the barns and deposits snow it has picked up off the ground.

Wish they would have! She got home fine last night, crashed on the way to work this morning. This is the 3rd time she's crashed her car, twice last winter. Kid just doesn't get winter driving. Apparently she WAS going quite slowly and leaving enough space between cars that people pulled in from side roads/driveways. But she was doing the "suggested in bad weather" 15 MPH on the corner after the bridge rather than slowing way down to something reasonable for the CURRENT conditions. I don't think there is a clear road anywhere (possibly the interstate). Blowing snow, snowplow polished snow, etc. Couldn't stay in her lane, left front hit the left rear of a car going the other way. Don't know if she totaled it this time or not. If it damaged the inverter it is totaled. Cop gave her a $220 ticket with 3 points for driving too fast for conditions. Oh, and I found out that while I THOUGHT she had collision and not comprehensive, it is the other way around. So no insurance coverage.

Don't hear much from DD1. Do know that her new computer (received in Dec) is acting up and apparently she needs to send it somewhere. It is a Razer brand, never heard of them, her BF helped her pick it out. Have only received 2 emails. One had the line "Stupid phone". No idea what that means. She was going to meet with the dietician to see if they could get some different stuff at the gluten free station. Apparently it is mostly Indian food and I guess they use a lot of nightshades (peppers, tomatoes, potatoes) and she has issues with them as well.


----------



## RollingAcres

That wind was really brutal today! Doing animal chores was almost unbearable. The drive to work was kinda bad too but I knew to take my time. I pulled over for others to pass when they got too close.I'm not taking any chance.
Sucks that DD crashed her car but glad that she wasn't hurt. Maybe this time she'll learn to slow down.


----------



## Mike CHS

At least your daughter wasn't hurt but it's still something to cope with.


----------



## Latestarter

Bruce said:


> Oh, and I found out that while I THOUGHT she had collision and not comprehensive, it is the other way around. So no insurance coverage.


 I believe comprehensive is pretty much required/standard all the time, the collision is optional (unless the car is financed and the lender requires it). Then again, maybe neither is required as the insurance totaled my truck, so now I have only liability. Either way, Hope your daughter is indeed OK. Hope the car isn't a complete loss. Hope the repairs are less than what the deductible WOULD/SHOULD have been... That way at least you'll know you'd have been paying for it regardless. I believe there's a (bad/negative) trend developing here WRT her driving.  Hope she can get that reversed...


----------



## farmerjan

Here in Va comp and collision are "one package" and liability is the basic.  I just dropped the comp and collision on the Subaru when I renewed and just kept the liability.  It has 287,000 miles, what they would pay for it at book value isn't enough to pay for the comp and collision, in 2 years, if it were totalled.  But I keep the rest at the top of the limits. Still cut my ins costs for the year in half. 
Glad that she was not hurt.


----------



## greybeard

I have comp, collision and of course liability on wife's car and just liability on my pickup.
It's been worth it to keep it on her car, since she is prone to run in to things, tho the comprehensive also saved my bacon (pun intended) when i hit a feral hog Christmas morning a few years ago and tore up the front left qtr and a bit of the grill. That was my 1st accident in 39 years (no fault too) but wife has had 4 'at fault' accidents involving other vehicles in the last 6 years (nothing serious-no injuries) ........and she got a ticket for 90mph in a 65mph zone in 2004....obviously, I pay a pretty high insurance premium considering my age and my own driving record.
Ain't love grand?


----------



## RollingAcres

We have comp, collision and liability on both our vehicles. I know the day we decide to drop comp and collision that's the day when we'll need it. 
In the past 17 years, I've gotten into 2 accidents, no other vehicles involved, it was just me. First time was 17 years ago, I didn't slow down enough exiting the highway, hit a patch of slushy snow and hit the guardrail. The second was about 3 years ago, it was snowing, again I should have known better to slow way down but I didn't, slid off the road into someone's yard. No damage to my car, just bruised my ego a bit. DH has good driving record.


----------



## Bruce

People still going off the road today! I went out to the grocery store. There were 2 flares about 100 yards apart on the main road just after I got on. Cop with flashing lights at the right curve just before where I turned left, tow truck pulling a car out of the snow bank. It wasn't there yesterday when I went to look at DD's car and pay for the tow and the roads were worse. Still I stayed at 10 MPH below the posted limit and slowed extra at curves. The roads were plowed but very little pavement showing until I got to the major N/S road in the state. And that wasn't clear, at least half the time I had packed snow under at least one wheel.

Here you have to have liability which does cover other vehicles if you are at fault, we have the standard $100,000 coverage. Everything else is voluntary though most people carry uninsured motorist coverage since there are those without insurance even though it is required to register a vehicle. Oh yeah, there are those driving unregistered vehicles as well. 

I figure I am on the hook for the difference between the $1,000 deductible we have on the other cars and the value the ins company would pay if the car had collision and was totaled since I'm the one that screwed up when the policy was written. Haven't mentioned that to DD yet, figure she needs to stew on her losses for awhile. She still is hanging on her claim that she wasn't going too fast around that corner. Sorry but if your tires don't have traction, even 3 MPH could have been too fast.

DW did mention last night that DD figures she's just shot her planned vacation to Japan when the resort closes in the spring. That has to hurt, enough to make her extra cautious when the roads aren't clear and dry in the future??


----------



## RollingAcres

With all that wind yesterday some places get terrible snow drift. Some people don't think of that and by the time they saw it, it's too late.



Bruce said:


> Haven't mentioned that to DD yet, figure she needs to stew on her losses for awhile





Bruce said:


> DW did mention last night that DD figures she's just shot her planned vacation to Japan when the resort closes in the spring. That has to hurt, enough to make her extra cautious when the roads aren't clear and dry in the future??


Whether it's your mistake or not on the insurance policy, I hope she learned from her accident this time. She's lucky that she wasn't hurt and no one else got hurt.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

Just caught up from having to go out of town.

Sorry to hear about your daughter.  I'm glad she is OK.  I really hope you can get the car fixed for not too much money.  What kind of car does (did) your daughter drive?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

Her car, like her mother's is a 2006 Prius. She has about 165K on hers, DW has 205K. Mine is an '09 with 135K miles, DD1's is a '10 with 80K miles, this one doesn't have built in Nav, she bought a Tom Tom. 

Estimate to repair the car is $5K. The auto body guy said his computer totals it at $3,800. We looked at a Craig's List 2008 Prius today with 150K miles, $3,850 IIRC. That would be about $4,120 after taxes. But it didn't have the Navigation system which she has currently and wants again. There was another 2008 that did have Nav but it would cost more than $5K after taxes. I told her she could get a standalone GPS for a lot less than ~$900 with the added advantage of free updates for ever (Toyota's nav system uses a double layer DVD and they charge out the wazoo for updates) but she wasn't interested. 

She is going to get her car repaired. Hit the coolant thermos which Adam says Toyota wants $1,400 for (hoping he can source a used one!) but not the inverter. Left front fender and wheel well liner, hood, bumper, headlight assembly, fuse box are the major hits. Frame doesn't appear damaged.



RollingAcres said:


> Whether it's your mistake or not on the insurance policy, I hope she learned from her accident this time. She's lucky that she wasn't hurt and no one else got hurt.


She's gotten lucky 3 time now, this is the first time someone else was involved. But that kid has an entitlement issue. Haven't heard back from the insurance guy to see about a rental (will they even rent to a 23 Y/O?) or adding collision on her policy so my car is covered if she is driving it or adding her back to our policy for a short while. I did mention I didn't look forward to driving her to work and picking her up (30 minutes each way in good weather) 5 days a week. She said I could force DW to do it on Sundays. Force? *FORCE?? *Yeah I did let her have it on that. She should be groveling and asking very nicely if we will drive her to and fro.  

Have I mentioned that my DDs should have grown up dirt poor so they would appreciate what they have?


----------



## Rammy

Wow. All I can say is,  Wow.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Boy oh boy!!.....I'm certainly cringing here for ya my friend....and have been faced with similar things in the past with my 4 girls.....if I had of known when they were young, how they'd think and act when they were teens and 20s....they certainly would have different memories of what they faced growing up....and I wouldn't have sacrificed near as much so they could have....


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce...the issues you have with your daughters are similar  to the ones I had with my only child....He had a sense  of entitlement. ...we haven't  spoken or seen each other for over ten years. After giving all  I could and doing the best I could do as a single mom  He resented me having to work to support us. 
Good luck with your girls, I hope you never get to the point that your child says "I appreciate  that you gave me life, but I don't  want a relationship  with you "
Seems like these days, if you don't  bow down to them ,then you are disposable. ...
Surprise will be that I am leaving everything in trust for humane society...and -$10.00 to him....
If I had known then, what I know now........, well you know how that saying goes.......good luck, ..girls tend to stay in touch better with their parents.


----------



## Bruce

Nice, I guess, to know that I'm not alone. And the leaving them money thing, I've already thought about an ever decreasing %age with the rest going to a charity or two. Of course it goes to DW if I croak first so I suppose she could give them whatever is left when she dies.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

No Bruce you are not alone....sad but true.


----------



## farmerjan

I may not have a great relationship with my one brother, but am good with my sister and other brother.  Whatever my parents do at this point is ..... whatever.  My father is so opposite of how he was raised by my grandparents.  
That said, I may have some small issues with how my son does some things, but he was raised without alot, we were divorced when he was 7, and although there will be a decent settlement from his father as he is the only child, he learned from the get go, that money didn't grow on trees and I never had issues with him feeling entitled.  He worked for his first truck, paid his own insurance from 16 on, but I did help him with his first loan.  He works his butt off now, and I will hopefully never have to worry about him trying to take advantage of me or my stuff.  Again, he is not perfect, but he has always known that you worked for what you wanted. And  he will take care of me when the time comes, just as he will take care of his father.  I have no issue with that either.  

Yes, she should have been asking nice in every way she could think of.  And one thing, why are you going to be on the hook for the difference in the 1,000 deductible?  She's working, it was her fault, her accident, she should know what her insurance covers,  it's HER RESPONSIBILITY to pay what needs to be paid. 
My son would have said "force" to me about driving him back and forth to work one time, and he would have picked himself up off the floor... all 6'6" of him.  That kind of disrespect has never been and will never be tolerated.  EVER!!!!  Not even to his father, and his father has made his life very difficult at times with his attitude.  We have our days, and our differences, but he was taught respect and had better ALWAYS remember that. 

God bless you that don't have at least that from your kids.


----------



## Rammy

Im glad I never had kids. I was taught also you worked for what you wanted. It wasnt going to be handed to you. I agree the daughter should fork over the difference. Bruce shouldnt have to. Its her car, her accident. Maybe if she starts owning up to her responsabilities, she will be more careful in the future. I also paid for my own car and insurance. Parents told me its your car, your responsibility.


----------



## newton the goat

Bruce said:


> Nice, I guess, to know that I'm not alone. And the leaving them money thing, I've already thought about an ever decreasing %age with the rest going to a charity or two. Of course it goes to DW if I croak first so I suppose she could give them whatever is left when she dies.


Im sorry to read about your problems with your DD's. I hope they one day are able to see you for the awesome person you are. Because so far they are missing out. Im glad your DD who went off the road is ok... and i hope your able to get through to her. If i ever said something like the whole "force you DW to take her to work on sunday" to my dad i wouldnt be here right now as my father would likely beat my ass for the mere suggestion of him "obeying" like a dog would take commands. I was one of the lucky few of my generation raised with the mindset i have and it astounds me to hear people saying **** like that. My dad if i had three accidents would have taken back his car long ago...he would expect me to take responsiblity no matter what no excuses.. sure he would cover me if i was low on cash but i would be expected to pay him back asap but thats just his parenting style and not everyone would agree with him. when i accidentally backed into my great aunts brand new car i was expected to pay every penny of that as soon as the bill touched my fingers. What i mean is though i probably dont have a right to comment is if you pay when shes working she will always rely on you. Im not saying relying on you is bad but if she really doesnt have the money then maybe let her "borrow" with the expectation that she pays it back? Idk if anything i say is outa line i appologize i just hate to see ya going through difficult times with your girls. Good luck!


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> will they even rent to a 23 Y/O


if they have a credit card they can rent anything around here...


----------



## Bruce

I figure the lack of collision coverage is my fault. We sat with the guy and set it up. She knew nothing about car insurance other than she needed it and I told him (wrong) what we wanted. We will be having an educational session 

OK, I have temporarily added her back to our insurance so she can drive my car. I really don't want to spend 1.5 hours twice a day to drive some place I have no need or desire to be.


----------



## RollingAcres

But is she at least going to help pay for some repair expense?


----------



## Rammy

X2


----------



## B&B Happy goats

................................X3


----------



## Bruce

Oh yeah she is. She's on the hook for the $1K deductible she WOULD have had if there were collision coverage and everything over the $3,800 the guy said the car would be totaled at. And, of course the $220 for the ticket. 

She would have been better off buying the car we looked at Tuesday and buying a portable Nav system. That would have been about $800 less than the estimate to fix hers. That car is 2 years newer, 15K fewer miles and there is some salvage value to her car. Possibly a bit more than salvage if the auto body guy decided he would buy it, fix it and sell it. No labor costs. But not my decision to make, I can only suggest.


----------



## Latestarter

Gotta say Bruce, that is some real shortsightedness on the girl's part... I mean really... So stupid, all over a built in GPS? In case she hasn't heard, there are places like Car Toys, that can make her a built in system that would look stock if that's what she wanted. Newer car? less miles? better shape? (obviously at this point) and less cost involved? What the hell is that girl thinking? and college educated as well... Here's to liberal education!  Perhaps you should her a good one?


----------



## Rammy

You have to remember that she is still young and does not have the life experience many of us have. Practicality doesnt factor in with convienence and style. I bet alot of us can say now how we wish we knew then what we know now.


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## B&B Happy goats

Have to agree with Rammy, what Bruce and DW decide to do is their choice...he can't  "force" her to make the right decisions....
It's not like @Bruce is ASKING  for advice here.....
So I will keep my opinions to myself as difficult as it may be ...


----------



## farmerjan

I deleted my post since I was giving an opinion that was perhaps too personal.  Sorry if I offended Bruce or his family.


----------



## Rammy

Same here. Sorry Bruce.


----------



## Bruce

It is really unfortunate that you can't buy an aftermarket Nav system that could show on the built in 7.3" display. 

I do find it a bit confusing. On the one hand people think I should let her be responsible for herself and stew in her own juices and on the other I shouldn't let her make what most of us think is not the best financial decision regarding a car.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I do find it a bit confusing. On the one hand people think I should let her be responsible for herself and stew in her own juices and on the other I shouldn't let her make what most of us think is not the best financial decision regarding a car.


Somewhere in-between Bruce, which I'm sure you are making every effort to do.



> It is really unfortunate that you can't buy an aftermarket Nav system that could show on the built in 7.3" display.


As far as the nav system, yes, you can buy an aftermarket system that will show on the OEM display but not one that is plugNplay. You would have to find someone that can sync the new software to the OEM software/hardware and it will usually be someone that has to hack into the OEM  system. It's not the fault of the aftermarket people...it's because the car manufacturers and their own vendors insist on using proprietary software and hardware. They don't WANT anyone else's software working on their hardware and there is probably a legalese blurb regarding that in your owner's manual.


----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> Somewhere in-between Bruce, which I'm sure you are making every effort to do.


What GB said!
No one said parenting is easy...


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> They don't WANT anyone else's software working on their hardware and there is probably a legalese blurb regarding that in your owner's manual.


Yeah I get that, don't have to compete if you don't let them use your hardware. There is definitely a "on one hand verses the other" functionality discussion with regard to the built in system and a portable one.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, since I am imminently qualified to provide advice on raising kids (my wife and I had NONE), I will put in my 2 cents worth.  Once of the best things that ever happened to me was when I was just prior to my sophomore year of college.  My dad and I were at odds, so to speak.  Looking back, I see it was all my fault.  But at the time, I couldn't believe how dumb my dad was.  So in the summer between my freshman and sophomore years, I moved from Texas to Maryland and stayed with my uncle.  I had decided to strike out on my on, planning on getting a job, an apartment, and then continuing to go to school full-time.  In the 5 or so months I was there, I came to realize just how much it cost to be independent.  It is amazing just how much smarter my dad got in those 5 or so months.  At the end of that 5 months, I moved back in with my parents to continue my education there.  I suddenly started listening to him, because it finally sunk into my thick head that my dad was a lot smarter than I gave him credit for.  It was the best 5 months of education in the real world I could have received.  Perhaps your daughter could use such a 5 month education.


----------



## Bruce

Well she did spend 4 years (minus breaks) getting educated in Wisconsin. Didn't make me any smarter though  

I guess a FEW things do get through. She was chopping up veggies for the dumpling things, using my large chef's knife. Even properly chopping by holding the point down and "pivoting" the knife on it over the stuff she was chopping. I commended her on using the proper knife (*) and technique. She said when she was thinking about which knife to use she thought "which one would Dad use?" Apparently the technique came from some cooking show she saw on her computer or something. Oh well, at least I made a small difference.

* DW insists on using a thin bladed partly serrated knife she's had since before we were married for most things. Thanks but I REALLY do not like the knife I'm chopping/cutting hard veggies with to flex. Yeah just what I want when I'm cutting carrots, have the knife flex and spring off.


----------



## Mike CHS

Those kind of knives will make you pay for being careless.


----------



## Bruce

Yep, I don't use it for anything. 

The pond fish today. If they are native I have to guess they are some kind of panfish based on the joined dorsal and adipose fins. Probably a Pumpkinseed or Bluegill.

 
https://vtfishandwildlife.com/node/702


----------



## greybeard

bait.......


----------



## Bruce

Hopefully yes, something I could buy at a bait store. Sure don't want to go scrounging ponds trying to find the same kind.


----------



## Latestarter

You could always make or buy a minnow trap and catch a few for release in your pond. I'm sure the predators would greatly appreciate your efforts. 





Courtesy Cabela's.  https://www.cabelas.com/browse.cmd?categoryId=734095080&CQ_search=minnow+trap&CQ_zstype=REG

Pretty sure I've seen them at wally world as well.  You could catch juvenile fish of multiple species as well as minnows. All would benefit the overall wellness of the pond.


----------



## goatgurl

wow bruce, just wow.  i'm so sorry about your dd's accident but so glad no one was injured.  you do what you need to do for yourself and your family.  no one can make those decisions for you.  the one thing I will say is that my daughter finally started growing up when I started making her responsible for herself.  I didn't throw her off the pier all at once but it was a good thing for her.  now i'm trying to teach her how important is for her to let her own daughter learn what the life of hard knocks is all about.    being a parent isn't easy and I don't know about yours but mine didn't come with an owners manual. 
   my dad had a minnow trap like that and caught most all of his fishin' minnows with it.  I can remember watching his face turn really red when I accidently opened it and all those little fishies swam away.  talk about being thrown off the pier, he wanted to really badly.


----------



## Bruce

Hmmm, I had a thought based on LS's trap suggestion. I wonder if whatever prior owners who put the fish in the pond behind the barn put any in the pond at the NE corner of the property. It too is man made but didn't dry out last summer. So ... what does one bait a minnow trap with?


----------



## Rammy

Bread?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Lady minnows ......bread or cat food work....we asked google


----------



## Bruce

Hey look, Google has a new satellite shot of our property! Must be as the pond was just starting to dry out so likely June 2018. Now you can see the area I fenced and where the solar panels are. That light brown area near the panels is the alpacas' dirt bath. They made it themselves. If you look CAREFULLY there is a black spot (Teddy) and a brown and white spot (Laddie) pretty much in a line from the south end of the big barn going to the pond


----------



## RollingAcres

Nice! How many acres do you have?


----------



## Rammy

Very nice. So whens the pool party?


----------



## RollingAcres

When it's warm out


----------



## Bruce

Total is about 26 acres. What is shown is about 2.25 acres.

Any time you like Rammy, I would suggest not standing on the pool deck and jumping in right now, you might break a leg.


----------



## RollingAcres

Where is your garden?


----------



## greybeard

Do you have solar panels on your house roof as well or just the free standing ones out in the back?
The pond is bigger than what it appeared to be when you were digging on it last year.


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Where is your garden?


That triangular space at the bottom. To the left is the area I put the new fence around, replacing old falling down fence going north and to the west to that remaining piece of N/S fence (there was a "riding ring" in that area up to the dirt bath area. Everything west of that is newly fenced area. I still haven't pulled the really bad fence from around the pond. There are pictures of it here back a couple of years.



greybeard said:


> Do you have solar panels on your house roof as well or just the free standing ones out in the back?
> The pond is bigger than what it appeared to be when you were digging on it last year.


Hard to get the full pond picture from the ground. Don't have a camera drone  All the green at the south end of the pond is vegetation. Mostly gone now that I dug it out. The very light parts are ledge.

The panels are only on the ground, no south facing roof on any building. Since they are on poles I can adjust their tilt seasonally. I didn't go with trackers because I've heard they are kind of questionable for longevity and we get a lot of wind here that would test their strength. In fact, the steel poles are sched 80 rather than 40 though that may not have been necessary. For a few hundred dollars I figured better safe than sorry.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Hard to get the full pond picture from the ground. Don't have a camera drone



You could climb atop your barn to take the picture.......

(I've had the same problem... trying to get a good overhead shot of my cow pen setup)

Your place looks good Bruce.


----------



## Mike CHS

Your hard work shows.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> You could climb atop your barn to take the picture.......


Top?? I think not! It was slippery enough on the shed part when I was planting about 700 roofing screws in it to cut down on the leaks.


----------



## Devonviolet

Very nice Bruce.  Your hard work shows!  I have serious pond envy!  Our property is only 150 Feet across, so it isn’t really feasable to put a decent pond.  Maybe when we get more of the woods cleared we can take another look at that.


----------



## Bruce

You need a long SKINNY pond, REALLY skinny  Must be your place is quite deep. Is this one of those places where they hack up a whole lot of acres into a lot of skinny lots along a road?

You might not have had much pond envy when it looked like this in 2012

 

Or last year when it went totally dry and I was digging it out


----------



## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> You need a long SKINNY pond, REALLY skinny  Must be your place is quite deep. Is this one of those places where they hack up a whole lot of acres into a lot of skinny lots along a road?
> 
> You might not have had much pond envy when it looked like this in 2012
> View attachment 57590
> 
> Or last year when it went totally dry and I was digging it out
> View attachment 57591


You make a good point about the long, skinny pond. Yes, our lot is 150 feet wide and 1465 feet long.   The people that build our house, bought 25 acres and divided out this 5 acres, for themselves and 20 acres for their son. 

When we found this place, we had looked for six months and our lease, in Dallas was coming to an end. We really didnt want to havvee to sign another six month lease.  This was the nicest plac e we had seen, that we could afford, and that didn’t need a LOT of work.

To be honest, since there wasn’t a fence or dividing line, it didn’t look that narrow . . . Until we came and saw the surveyor’s marks, we didn’t realize how narrow it was.  I told DH I didn’t want a “spaghetti farm” and that is exactly what we got. 

Truth be told, I don’t know that we have enough elevation and water runoff to keep a pond full most of the year.   If I dug a pond, it would be at least 8 feet deep.


----------



## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> Truth be told, I don’t know that we have enough elevation and water runoff to keep a pond full most of the year. If I dug a pond, it would be at least 8 feet deep.


Those type are often called 'tanks' in Texas, which is only a little different than a 'pond'. You don't need or want a lot of run off/watershed area, and often, you have to include some neighboring property in determining how much runoff you may have.  The bigger watershed you have, and the more angled/steep the landscape is, means you have to have a much stronger dam or a much more complex overflow system.

Gallons in a round, straight sided pool:
Diameter x Diameter x Average Depth x 5.9 = Total gallons
Your depth is going to be partially dependent upon substrata....which kind of soil is down there. If you get to desired depth, and it's sandy, it will not hold water.

One inch of rain btw,  falling on 1 acre of ground is equal to about *27,000 *gallons. If you ever do decide to build one, there is a forum type website called PondBoss that can be of great help.


----------



## Devonviolet

Thanks. That’s good to know. I have heard about PondBoss, and from that site, I learned how much is involved in building an effective dam.  Now if the neighbor, who owns the 160 acres across the road from us whould have known about PondBoss, maybe the dam (and I use the term lightly) that he built four years ago, (to replace the previously failed dam) wouldn’t have failed six months later. I strongly suspect he wouldn’t have listened to me if I had made any suggestions.


----------



## greybeard

Well, a lot goes into the design of a dam, and unless one does plenty of research, it's difficult to determine just how much water flows into a new pond. I'm not a fan of long skinny ponds, as they are generally more difficult to maintain. If I were younger, and intended to keep this place, I would do away with my pond altogether and build a smaller simpler pond closer to the house in a 5 ac pasture that doesn't get as much runoff. My current pond gets runoff from about 400 acres, maybe even twice that, most of which is national forest. 
The dam did survive Harvey, Rita, Allison, and Ike tho.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

You have a really nice piece of property.  You and your wife should be very proud of what you have accomplished.  I am proud for you.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

I will take credit for any improvements  Wife has a paying job and does laundry though she does help when we shear/scissor the 2 alpacas. And she can do the alpaca and chicken chores if no one else is home like when the DDs and I went to So. Cal. in November.


----------



## Bruce

Warmed up today, and is cooling down now, approaching freezing. WINDY!!!!!!!!!!!!  Really started cranking around 4 AM. Trash pickup was supposed to be yesterday but I think they didn't finish their Wednesday houses due to the ice and we got pushed out so our cans were still out from yesterday. Our 32 gallon cans had been blown over, DW picked them up when she left for work at 6:45, I guess not much fell out. 

The guy that lives "next door" on the other side of the road that runs up our property came down about 7:40. The girl (who I think is about 13) was already down waiting for the school bus. Their recycle bin was knocked over, stuff all in the snow. He started picking it up, son came down the long driveway. Dad still picking up. Floors me that neither kid helped at all, but then I wouldn't be surprised if my kids wouldn't have been just as 'helpful' unless I told them to help. My guess is the girl called Dad to tell him about the problem (assuming she actually got a cell signal), I don't think he could have seen it from the house it is over 100 yards from the road. 

I went to town to pay the property taxes (1/3, just shy of $2K), stopped twice on our road to pick up a 96 gallon can that had been blown into the middle of the road. Those were empty recycle cans but I saw a number of other cans, empty recycle and full trash that had blown over. Went to get cat food and 3 bales of pine shavings. When I got back our trash was over again. I righted it and put the few things that had fallen out back in. The trash truck came by as I was taking the first bale to the barn. Supposed to be gusting to mid 30's all the way until tomorrow afternoon when the high will be 18°F.

Last spring I bought a bag of 5 horizontal chicken water nipples. Planned to take the pipe out from the "basement" of the nest box in the coop and replace the 5 vertical saddle nipples and attach the pipe OUTSIDE the nest box. Didn't get to it, figured I had the heated dog dish and it worked fine the last 2 winters so no rush. The last time I had a failure in the 5 nipple pipe a few years ago I made a 2 nipple pipe and attached it under the (crappy) box that holds the 5 gallon drink cooler, removed it when I fixed the 5 nipple pipe. But that had some leakers 2 years ago I think. I decided yesterday that since the element in the dog dish seems to have failed (solid block of ice Tuesday morning) to replace the 2 vertical saddle nipples with 2 horizontals and reattach it. Seems the birds have taken to it just fine, I saw several drinking from it from the original June 2012 chicks that were used to the old nipples to at least one of the girls from last spring. This even though their dog dish is full. I might skip replacing the dog dish, the nipple waterers are more convenient.


----------



## RollingAcres

It was 41 degrees this morning and now 34 degrees. It will be down to 21 degrees by tomorrow morning. 

Those kids were in their school clothes, can't get them dirty you know.


----------



## Rammy

You all are probably getting that front that came thru here yesterday. Its COLD here today. Big difference from the 70's to 28 today!!


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> It was 41 degrees this morning and now 34 degrees. It will be down to 21 degrees by tomorrow morning.
> 
> Those kids were in their school clothes, can't get them dirty you know.


That must be it. The girl was holding some sort of papers or something, not in her backpack. Still I think once Dad had tossed some of the stuff up to where the can was, the kids could have at least put it in the can.


----------



## greybeard

What!?! Actually handle 'garbage'?? Oh Noes..they can't do that...what if the bus came and their friends saw them?


----------



## Bruce

Oh but it wasn't garbage, it was recyclables! Wet with snow, but not garbage.


----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> What!?! Actually handle 'garbage'?? Oh Noes..they can't do that...what if the bus came and their friends saw them?


They would be the talk of the whole school. Everyone will look at them funny and won't sit witg them at lunch time.


----------



## Bruce

10°F this morning. Dog water dish frozen .... horizontal nipples frozen. So much for horizontals not freezing as quickly as verticals. My verticals wouldn't have frozen until at least -10°F. They can't be frozen in the pipe since the circulating water is 65°F. Left over water in the little 'platform' must have frozen the pins on the outside 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  Will be buying a new heated dog dish.


----------



## Mike CHS

Even here it was cold enough that there was a solid inch of ice in all of the water troughs.  I have been putting all of my 5 gallon water containers on the porch to keep them from freezing outside.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I will admit that I've racked my brain for ya in trying think of a way to keep ya from dealing with frozen water, but when it is so brutually cold for long periods of time it is extremely difficult without heating the barn and that would be costly....I truly do cringe for ya having to deal with it....cause frankly I sure couldn't do it....I hope ya do come up with a solution....


----------



## Bruce

Heating the barn 

Solution: New heated water dish! Installed about 3 PM today.


----------



## rachels.haven

It's a little late, but I use this in my chicken nipple buckets.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00061UQ6G/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I want to experiment with insulating the bucket, but so far they work down to single digits. Just don't let your geese eat the cord like I did.


----------



## Bruce

Yep I have an aquarium heater in the 5 gallon drink cooler, the lowest it goes is 65°F. The water is continually pumped with a tiny reptile waterfall pump down through the 16" pipe that has the 2 horizontal nipples in it then back to the cooler. Must be some water froze around the pin on the outside of the nipple. These are the ones I got from Meyers Hatchery. No instructions, maybe I put them in upside down? I have the wide flattish part on the bottom.


----------



## Bruce

We are looking at 9.5" of snow by 7 AM Wednesday and total of about a foot by evening. Guess I'll be getting up early Wed morning.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Guess there will be plenty of water in the pond come Spring from the sound of that....hope it holds it and doesn't dryout again on ya.....


----------



## Rammy

If we got that much here in Tn there would be riots at the grocery stores over the last loaf of bread.  If we just get an inch or two here, people shut down just about everything.  Stay warm. Hope your new dog bowl works.


----------



## Mike CHS

We just sit on our hill and wait for it all to melt.


----------



## greybeard

Rammy said:


> If we got that much here in Tn there would be riots at the grocery stores over the last loaf of bread.


Milk sandwiches......


----------



## Baymule

I couldn't like your post. A foot of snow and we durn shure wouldn't be going to the store to fight over that last loaf of bread! LOL I'd bake my own.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> We just sit on our hill and wait for it all to melt.


If I were to do that we have a problem! Neither DW nor DD2 could get to work.

The pond went into winter full. Once whatever snow we have in the spring is gone, it is all up to the clouds to add water as the sun removes it.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Guess I'll be getting up early Wed morning.


Guess you will be.


----------



## rachels.haven

Bruce said:


> Yep I have an aquarium heater in the 5 gallon drink cooler, the lowest it goes is 65°F. The water is continually pumped with a tiny reptile waterfall pump down through the 16" pipe that has the 2 horizontal nipples in it then back to the cooler. Must be some water froze around the pin on the outside of the nipple. These are the ones I got from Meyers Hatchery. No instructions, maybe I put them in upside down? I have the wide flattish part on the bottom.




Yep, you should have it right the way you've got it-cup/flat side down.


----------



## Bruce

Guess I'll be carrying water to the new heated dish until the temp gets high enough for the ice around the pins to melt then.


----------



## RollingAcres

How much snow did you get?


----------



## Bruce

By the time you posted? No idea, it was dark out there  Probably around 6-7" by 5:30 when I went out to move snow. It kindly stopped snowing while I was doing that then started back up lightly when DW was about to leave at 6:15. Been snowing ever since. Unfortunately there isn't a bond between the new snow and the ice that was still around from before, still have to walk carefully AND remember where the icy places are. Looking out the window there is too much glare on the white snow to see how much has landed since I came in at 6:45, can't see any tire tracks though so at least a couple of inches I think.


----------



## Bruce

Dinner, beef barley (and a lot of vegetables) soup. DW bought the bread on the way home from work. Came out pretty well. She said I could skip the tomatoes if I want (I don't want) since she isn't a tomato person. Also said it could have less meat (I like meat). Hey I followed the recipe. It said 3 pound chuck roast, I buy a 3 pound chuck roast! She did say it was good.


----------



## Mike CHS

_I really love barley.  The Kroger here didn't carry it till I asked them to stock it and it stays sold out now._


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Looks good to me!


----------



## Bruce

Yep, the problem with not selling it is they don't know if people would buy it. I don't know if stores do any sort of 'polling' to see what people WOULD buy if they COULD.

Have 3 quarts left over. Still had 2 quarts of lentil soup in the freezer. So 5 dinners!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya are cheating yourself if ya don't have a couple of roast sandwiches out of it too....


----------



## Bruce

Roast beef and barley soup sandwiches? I don't think so!! That is why there is bread on the side.
The meat was cut to bite size, braised and cooked in the soup.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I've been known to fish enough pcs out to have a sandwich.....


----------



## Bruce

Ah, well I could do that I suppose.


----------



## RollingAcres

Soup looks good @Bruce!


----------



## Baymule

I bet your wife sure appreciated coming home to a pot of hot soup on a snowy cold day!


----------



## Bruce

Heard back from the state fish and game people regarding to what kind of fish I have. He agreed they are juvenile panfish, probably bluegill. Seems one can't buy such things and you need a permit to trap them. Of course with a fishing license you could always go out and hope to catch some. He suggested getting fathead minnows or golden shiners at a bait shop. Both seem to like fairly still water which sure describes my pond. In addition I found this on golden shiners:
"Golden shiners are omnivorous. They eat zooplankton, insects, plants, and algae."
I wonder just how much algae the will eat. Sure could use help in that respect!

I asked about the possibility of trapping some in the other pond (if they exist) without a permit. Also even if I did have bluegill in the other pond if it would be a good idea to have multiple species anyway. Also asked how long it takes bluegill to mature given these don't seem to be growing all that fast. Will see what he has to say. 
Wikipedia says:
"The growth of the bluegill is very rapid in the first three years, but slows considerably once the fish reaches maturity. Many fish reach five to eight years old, and in extreme cases, can live 11 years."

And again, this on golden shiners:
"In the southern parts of their range, golden shiners can start reproducing at one year of age; in Canada, first breeding is more commonly at three years of age." Seems like it would be quite a long time for any fish to get old enough to reproduce. So again, how did I have fish in the pond? I've never seen an adult fish in the pond and we've owned the place for 8 years. Maybe they stayed in their juvenile state? Can that even happen?


----------



## CntryBoy777

More than likely, they were transferred by either waterfowl or nomadic turtles....the fertilized eggs will cling to feathers or scales on the legs of the birds and can be dislodged on landing in another area....they can also be trapped in the wrinkles and creases of skin of the turtle and around the shell they too can become dislodged as the turtle crawls across logs, limbs, and the bottom silt of another pond of water. 1 female bluegill can produce 10,000 eggs in a breeding season....here in the south that happens twice a year and is dictated by water temps usually in the Apr-May and Sept-Oct time periods.....


----------



## Bruce

Wow, really interesting! We do get a few mallards and Canada Geese coming through during migration.


----------



## RollingAcres

That's really interesting to know!


----------



## Rammy

I was wondering if a hawk or eagle dropped it in the pond by chance.


----------



## greybeard

There are several species of bluegill, and not all get 'large'. I have them by the thousands and have only very occasionally caught one large enough to even consider being of 'eating' size.

Golden shiners otoh, get quite large for a 'minnow' type fish and the ones I have are just too large for my bluegill to eat.

You would be well served I think, to buy your flathead minnows from a fishery instead of from a bait shop. Lots cheaper and your state may even bear part of the cost.
If you have any great blue or lesser herons walking around your ponds, you won't see many fish grow to maturity. They are deadly and voracious  fishers and I've been told they even fish at night, tho the ones I have, come in every evening and roost in a big pine tree right about sunset. I could have killed them off long ago but just haven't seen the need to since I have such a large pond network and have never seen more than 3 at any time.
This one has no idea how close to death he is.......there's a conibear beaver trap just a couple feet ahead of him right at the water's edge just past the fallen sapling.



 


Believe it or not, turtles eat a lot of minnows. They are more stealthy than most folks think.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> There are several species of bluegill, and not all get 'large'. I have them by the thousands and have only very occasionally caught one large enough to even consider being of 'eating' size.


I've not seen any fish more than maybe 4" and not many of those. None of the biggest I have seen even have the characteristic panfish shape. And yes I do have great blue herons. One came to the buffet daily as the pond slowly dried up. I'm sure it ate hundreds of fish, tadpoles and frogs. 

Hmm, looked again at shiners and fathead minnows. Yep, says shiners can get to 12" long though 3-5" is more common in the wild. Fathead minnows only to maybe 2". There aren't any hatcheries around here. Is your suggestion based just on cost? I have no idea what a bait shop charges or a hatchery that would have to ship them.

I watched a video of a guy in Alabama who had a small pond put in his back yard for the 2 bass he had in an aquarium. He bought 3 catfish, caught a couple of panfish specifically to put in the pond and got 10,000 golden shiners delivered and in the pond before putting the other fish in. I REALLY don't need 10,000 fish! He got them for the other fish to feed on. He got another 10,000 not all that long after being quickly down to a few hundred by his estimation. I guess those bass and the other fish eat a lot. The shiners were really small, probably not more than about 1".


----------



## CntryBoy777

The growing season there will be much less than in the south, because fish will be lethargic in cooler water and if there isn't enough warmth to digest a meal they will choose to not eat....also, a fish will only grow to the size of their environment....in a small overpopulated pond the fish will be stunted in their growth....just like fish in an aquarium....


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Is your suggestion based just on cost?


Mostly but for disease & parasite concerns as well but if you don't have any close by, I guess you have no recourse  except bait shops.


----------



## Bruce

Mint, 2017 Exchequer Leghorn finally laid her first egg for the season, I think the machinery needs a bit of adjustment. Maybe that means her "sister" Oreo will start up soon.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It has been my experience that once the shell is removed ya will never know there is/was a difference....


----------



## Bruce

That is true


----------



## Baymule

CntryBoy777 said:


> It has been my experience that once the shell is removed ya will never know there is/was a difference....


Yeah, but those shells sure make eggs more fun.


----------



## Rammy

Baymule said:


> Yeah, but those shells sure make eggs more fun.


And crunchy.


----------



## Bruce

I DO try to remove ALL of the shell Rammy.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Mint, 2017 Exchequer Leghorn finally laid her first egg for the season, I think the machinery needs a bit of adjustment. Maybe that means her "sister" Oreo will start up soon.
> View attachment 58237


Yay!


----------



## RollingAcres

Rammy said:


> And crunchy.





Bruce said:


> I DO try to remove ALL of the shell Rammy.



@Bruce maybe @Rammy likes shells in her eggs. That's how she gets her calcium from. @Rammy


----------



## Bruce

That could be, supposed to be good for the chickens too.  Maybe Rammy is actually a chicken.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> supposed to be good for the chickens too


I always forget to save the shells to give to the chickens.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Maybe Rammy is actually a chicken.


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> That could be, supposed to be good for the chickens too.  Maybe Rammy is actually a chicken.


Depends on the circumstances.


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> I always forget to save the shells to give to the chickens.


Me too. Doesn't seem like it would be all that hard does it? Maybe I should take the 4 out of the compost bin, smash them up and stick them in the oyster shell bin for the girls.


----------



## Bruce

Rammy said:


> Depends on the circumstances.


I'm sure that is true of all of us!


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Me too. Doesn't seem like it would be all that hard does it? Maybe I should take the 4 out of the compost bin, smash them up and stick them in the oyster shell bin for the girls.


My sister puts everything from the kitchen in a 'compost bucket' and gives it all to her chickens. They don't leave a single scrap. This time of year, the chicken tractor is in her garden. that stuff's getting 'composted' twice.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Maybe Rammy is actually a chicken



Drop the "-en" and that definitely applies, if the top of her head is any indication.


----------



## Bruce

I don't toss everything to the girls, don't need them eating tea bags, moldy food, etc.


----------



## Bruce

Yesterday. BYH was screwed up last night.

Well aren't we having fun today.
DD2's car finally fixed. I took her to the shop this morning (1/2 way to her work) to pick it up and continue to work. Told Adam thanks and I hope I never have to see you professionally again. Returning home coming into town 10 minutes later a vehicle crossed the center line and I pulled right as far as I could, hit the horn hard then was hit driver's front corner to driver's front corner. 30 MPH area at least. That car never veered from the straight line at my car. Car probably totalled. Ambulance ride to the ER, nothing broken, whiplash. Other driver taken to the same place, MRIed and then, according to the state trooper who was taking my information, was going to be transferred to the UVM Medical Center. Nurse said I would hurt worse tomorrow and Monday.
Yay.
Now I need a new car. Was not in the current plans.

Oh, and BTW, DD showed so much appreciation (Hah!) that I let her use my car for the last 5 weeks that I didn't tell her I was going to cover the difference between deductible and total for her car. Decided not to do it last week. One of her comments when she got home today was "grocery shopping will be difficult"  So I let her borrow my car 5 days a week for 5 weeks and if I might need hers to go grocery shopping that would be a problem?


----------



## Hens and Roos

wow...that stinks about your car, glad you weren't seriously injured!


----------



## promiseacres

Glad you're ok. 
Kid's are always so appreciative...


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'm feeling stiff and sore already for ya!!....sure hate about the car....hopefully the other driver had insurance, but it sure doesn't aid the situation with a totaled car....ya get a little $$ and still pay money to replace what ya had....sounds to me like ya need to get the daughter a Yugo and tell her she can have something else when she pays for it.....


----------



## Mike CHS

I wonder if the other driver was texting?  Sore beats the alternative and at least you are mobile coming out of this.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Could've been so much worse - but I know that doesn't help much.  Glad you weren't seriously injured.


----------



## Bruce

Actually DD bought the car used Sept 2017 and paid for all the repairs. 

Nurse was right, more sore now than yesterday afternoon. Woke up several times with sharp neck pain even though I took the Flexeril when I went to bed. I have some leftover Tylenol 3 and am taking that during the day.

Yes the other driver has insurance, it is on the police accident report. No exchange at the accident, neither of us was in shape for that, the state trooper found us in the ER. I filed a claim with her insurance after I got home some time after noon. The lady I gave the info to didn't say the other party had filed anything yet. I am not surprised since she was taken to the bigger hospital after the MRI at the local hospital. I imagine her husband (listed as the owner of the car) was preoccupied with her condition. Have to wait until Monday for their adjuster to look at the car, can't get her insurance to approve a rental until they take responsibility after the incident is investigated.

Don't know if she was "distracted driving" or not. The police report isn't totally clear but her DOB suggests she is around 72, much less likely to be texting than a younger person. The trooper told me she didn't remember what happened, she might have had a medical incident just after she got on the bridge? I think that is possible since I didn't see any change in the car's heading while I was laying on the horn. Someone who was "just" distracted would likely have had time for at least a little correction. 

If I am correct about the condition of the car (*), this will be the second Prius I have had that was totaled by someone else. The first was my 2004 bought new, it had 130K miles when I was rear-ended on an interstate onramp in Sept 2012. I was doing about 40 MPH at the time and I will bet the girl (mid 20s) WAS texting. How do you hit someone so hard at that speed on an onramp that you can mash in the back and bend the frame of a vehicle in front of you? I don't like the design of the 2010-2016 Prius so I replaced the '04 with a feature identical '09. 140K miles on it yesterday. Never in my 46 years of driving have I hit anyone. 

So yeah, I'll get a few thousand dollars for a car that could easily last another 3+ years (DW's is an '06, also bought new, now with 207K miles) and have to come up with the rest of the replacement cost of whatever I buy. As you can see we keep our cars a long time (if no one destroys them) so I will likely buy a new car. 

DD1 was rear ended while stopped at a red light last summer, her car was nearly totalled. DW's similarly nearly totalled a bit under 2 years ago while stopped at a stop sign. The "value" of totalled of course depends on how new the vehicle is and what it will cost to repair it. Similarly, DW was rear ended close to 20 years ago when she stopped at a changing light in bad weather and the guy behind her planned to run the light and assumed she was going to as well. Slammed her into the intersection, no insurance, license suspended. I have been rear ended at low speed while stopped twice in the past. I guess we are magnets. Fortunately this is the only time any of us have needed medical attention after a car accident. 

* I never saw the front of it but they really had to crank the door for me to get out and I saw a lot of plastic parts on the ground. They were shoveling that into the back seat floor of my car to get it off the road after I was put in the ambulance.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I saw a lot of plastic parts on the ground


That happens nowadays even with the most minor of fender benders or accidents. Plastic everywhere.
Nothing new tho. The car in my avatar.....everything on it is 'plastic'.
Hope you get to feeling better.


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## B&B Happy goats

Glad you are ok Bruce.....hate winter driving hope you feel better quickly


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## Bruce

It wasn't even winter driving! Roads were perfectly clear.


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## farmerjan

Sorry to hear of your accident, and very glad that you were not seriously hurt.  Just keep up on the pain situation, and make sure that if anything else even feels a little "hurt" you get it checked out.  Please don't "sign off" on anything for awhile. 
I got hit head on by someone that didn't even pay attention to oncoming traffic (me) when they made a turn across in front of me in '07 and although I swerved to miss them, they hit and totaled my little truck.  I wound up with damage to my knee from hitting the brake control box in the truck, had to have orthoscopic surgery 6 months later, and have had knee problems ever since.  After a year with the lawyer and ins. company, finally settled;  as 3 different lawyer consultations, thinking mine wasn't getting me anywhere, all said that I would not be able to get much better of a deal than what I was getting due to the laws in Va., and the area I was located in.  But if I had signed anything sooner, would have been alot worse off.  It did pay all my medical, but I never could find another little truck that got the mileage that one did,  and the money I actually got only helped to catch up bills that I had incured while unable to work.  Like you it could have been worse;   but it is a real PITA to have residual problems.


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## goatgurl

dang bruce, that's a bummer.  so glad you are ok but listen to farmerjan about being careful about signing off on anything.  I sure hope you can find another Prius that suits you.  take your pain meds and muscle relaxers like you should cause today and tomorrow should be your worst days for stiffness.  take care of yourself


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## Bruce

Thanks GG. I've seen that advice from several people and will heed it. The ER is sending me to the osteo group, I'm supposed to call tomorrow. They said something about "wedging" in my neck, don't know if it is new and due to the accident or old from something else.


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## farmerjan

Even if it is "old",  the accident can have aggravated it... but for all practical purposes, if you never had an issue with it before, IT IS NEW.....  Believe me, even though you are younger than me, at this stage of the game, any damage, injury, etc., gets harder and harder to deal with and since this was totally NOT YOUR FAULT, let that ins. co. shoulder the expenses.  I am the poster child for saying "it's okay" and then down the road finding out that it really wasn't... or that the damage only becomes a bigger problem as you get older and joints etc., get worn out.


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## Bruce

Yes'm.


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## RollingAcres

Dang @Bruce I'm glad you're ok and not seriously hurt.


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## greybeard

Call Lawyer J. Noble Daggett of Dardanelle, Arkansas......


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## Baymule

I've totaled 2 cars, one my fault, one not. Either way, the car is gone. I hope you have no lingering injury. It sucks that your car is gone. Hope you can find the right one at the right price.


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## RollingAcres

How are you feeling @Bruce ? I was not on BYH for about a day and a half, came back on do a quick check last night and read about your accident and now heard about Latestarter's passing.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Dang, Mr. @Bruce, sir!  I am glad to know that you are OK, relatively speaking.  I'm sure you will heed the voices of others regarding signing anything just yet.  As for another vehicle, have you considered buying a vehicle that's more like a tank than a gocart?  I mean that if you ever collide with someone else, unless they have a tank as well, they will suffer more damage than you would.  If I am in a collision with someone while I am driving my F-350 dually diesel, more than likely I'll be OK while THEIR vehicle is totaled.  If you buy a truck, you will be able to haul a lot more, and if it is four wheel drive, you'll be able to travel in bad weather better.  Probably your daughters won't ask to borrow them.  The downsides?  Initial cost, operating costs, etc.  I get the WONDERFUL fuel economy of 15 MPG.  But I'd still prefer my truck over a smaller vehicle.  Anyhow, just a thought.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Sorry but there is no way I'm buying a truck as my daily driver. Putting gas in that would put me in the grave. I have never owned a gas hog and never will. I realize just saying that might get me kicked out of the herd  

I did have to rent a Chevy Silverado to return the splitter. Can't say I enjoyed anything about driving that other than the splitter fit in the bed. If I had real need to haul stuff regularly I would consider an old PU but I don't foresee that need. 



greybeard said:


> Call Lawyer J. Noble Daggett of Dardanelle, Arkansas......


Not sure that would do me much good, he died in 2005. Well, at least the actor that portrayed him did.

Woke up several times again last night, sharp neck pain. Still not real comfy today, neck and down the right side of my back. But, in theory, things should be improving tomorrow.


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## RollingAcres

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Probably your daughters won't ask to borrow them.


His daughters might ask to borrow the truck. Chicks look cool in big trucks, you didn't know that STA? That's why I drive one.  



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> The downsides? Initial cost, operating costs, etc. I get the WONDERFUL fuel economy of 15 MPG. But I'd still prefer my truck over a smaller vehicle.


I can't get over how expensive a new truck costs now a days. No way I'm getting a new truck or even new car. I kinda like that we have no vehicle payments. You are right about the wonderful fuel economy we get from the trucks but like you, I'd prefer it over a smaller car. Also helps a lot with 4 WD when driving on snowy roads.


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## High Desert Cowboy

Sorry about your vehicle but a car is replaceable where you are not.  Glad it’s only whiplash, it’s painful in the short go but hopefully there’s no lasting damage.  Buying a new car is never fun, especially if you’ve gotta pay down thousands more to replace it.  But sometimes you get lucky, when I totaled my truck a few years back I got back 4000 more than what I paid for it.  Fingers crossed you’re that lucky


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## farmerjan

I have a small ford ranger and get in the neighborhood of 22-25 mpg.  My 2000 forester subaru gets the same.  There is no way I would get a "car" that I cannot haul feed and my testing equipment and all that in. I use the truck all the time for hauling buckets of feed from the 4 ton gravity bulk feed bin up to the pasture/barn where I have my nurse cows.  I understand that you like the economy of the hybrid, but the outlay cost difference would never be offset here by savings in fuel, or convenience of use.  I paid 1200 for my USED 1994 (?) ranger.  Paid 400 for the 4wd then redid the engine for a total of 1300 in it.  Paid 1500 for the 2000 subaru put 100,000 miles on it, and just got it back after putting a new engine and rear struts for 1450.   It will hopefully go at least another 100,000.  Especially since I am not testing as many farms, and not travelling to Pittsburg Pa for the prolotherapy treatments every 2 months, round trip of 1,000 miles.   I look at it as a cost per month....
My car will cost me about 150 month for the next 10 months then the "engine cost" will be paid back.  I would have to put gas and do maintenance  on anything I drove.  The total insurance is 450 a year for liability with the highest prop damage etc allowed in Va.  Total insurance for Full coverage was 800/yr. so I am saving nearly half.   If I had to make payments then I would be saddled into something for at least 2 or more years.  I will not buy new for the ridiculous costs.
If I were to go any long distance trip, I can rent a "new" type vehicle for about 200 a week.  All their headaches and payments.  Have done it several times.  If it breaks down, call them;  not my problem.  It is money well spent if I have to go anywhere that I don't want to take my car.  I have no problem in going 500 miles with what I have. 
Understand too, that I don't care what it looks like much.  The subaru is a decent looking car.  The trucks get used in the field, the cows can and do rub against them.  Lenses get cracked and broken, they did break a plastic bracket for a mirror once.  They rub their nice mud covered butts on it. 
We also have the big trucks for the farm.  Can't easily carry a 1,000-1500 lb round bale on a little vehicle.  And we take at least 2 at a time to save trips that are too far from the barn to run the tractor.  Can't use a little truck to haul a trailer with 8-10,000 lbs of cattle.
It is all in WHAT YOU NEED.  If the Prius works for you, and you obviously like them, then good for you.  I like the principles of the hybrid, but cannot see where they make economic sense due to the very high cost and then the maintenance that would cost a good amount when the batteries need replacing.  I have not seen where it is justified with the increased mileage. But that is me.... maybe they have improved since I first looked into them.  
And I am also one to want some "metal" between me and the person who hits me.  Another reason to have some older vehicles.... they aren't made out of tinfoil and plastic.


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## farmerjan

The truck would be too big for his daughters to drive too.  It is hard to go from a small vehicle, to learning the "size" of a big one and things like turning allowances, and stopping distances.  And on top of that, all our trucks are standard shift.  The only automatic is my subaru....  It is alot easier/cheaper to replace a clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing, than rebuild an automatic transmission.  Although all new trucks under a 1 ton are now automatic.... another reason I will not buy one.  Even with my ankle I drive a standard shift.  The best thing, is if you get stuck in mud, you can "rock it" to get it out.  And if you have a battery or starter problem..... you can roll it down a hill, or pull it and pop the clutch and get it started.  Can't do that with an automatic.


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## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> It is alot easier/cheaper to replace a clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing, than rebuild an automatic transmission.


X2!!!

Lots easier and cheaper to rebuild a standard transmission than an automatic too, tho the newer ones with OD are getting more complicated.


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## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> you can roll it down a hill, or pull it and pop the clutch and get it started. Can't do that with an automatic.


Actually I think you can. Put it in neutral, get it to speed and drop it in drive. Though I've never tried it and would be fine with being told you really can't.



High Desert Cowboy said:


> But sometimes you get lucky, when I totaled my truck a few years back I got back 4000 more than what I paid for it. Fingers crossed you’re that lucky


 Not bloody likely! You made out really well buying that truck for so much less than its 'book value'. I think the value of my car now is about 1/3 of what it cost as a 3 year old in 2012.



farmerjan said:


> Paid 1500 for the 2000 subaru put 100,000 miles on it, and just got it back after putting a new engine and rear struts for 1450.


Hell of a deal. I would expect just the engine (new being 'new to you' I'm sure) would cost well more than that. What year did you buy the Subaru and how many miles did it have at the time? 



farmerjan said:


> If the Prius works for you, and you obviously like them, then good for you. I like the principles of the hybrid, but cannot see where they make economic sense due to the very high cost and then the maintenance that would cost a good amount when the batteries need replacing.


Sadly the urban myth that the traction batteries will fail and need replacing will not die. Started by naysayers when the cars first came out and repeated by people who know no better. We have had ZERO maintenance cost related to any part of the hybrid system on any of our cars. DW's car was bought new in April 2006 and has 207K miles on it. The only maintenance done on the car is the same as would be needed on any ICE based vehicle. And as to initial cost? The absolute cheapest F150 costs $4K more than the cheapest Prius. The cheapest Ranger cost $1K more than the cheapest Prius.

I understand that some people DO need a truck. Up here anything as old as your truck would likely be at the junkyard rusted out. As you said "It is all in WHAT YOU NEED." I don't need to haul 1,000 pound round bales. My hay (small squares or small rounds (1 round = 10 small squares)) is delivered by the guy up the road that bales and sells hay. I use < 30 small squares a year. If I needed to pick it up hay I could rent a UHaul for a few hours for about $40. Somewhere in my journal I detailed all the fencing materials I brought home from TSC in, on or behind (cargo tray) my Prius. None of my fencing materials were delivered and that includes numerous 7.5' T posts, 6" wood 8' posts, 16' cattle panels, 300' rolls of field fence and 12' pipe gates. Yes it did take a few trips but it would in a PU as well.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Actually I think you can. Put it in neutral, get it to speed and drop it in drive. Though I've never tried it and would be fine with being told you really can't.


It depends on whether the automatic transmission in question has what is know as a rear pump (as well as the usual front pump.) The rear pump would be driven off the transmission's OUTput shaft which is coupled to the drive wheels. The rear pump then, can provide hydraulic fluid to the pistons inside the transmission as well as to the torque convertor. Torque converter has to have fluid to it in order to transmit energy, except at highway speeds when the converter's stator and rotor are hydraulically or electrically lacked together, which is called  going into lockup. (if lockup clutch is an option for that model)
The usual arrangement tho, is to only have a front pump which of course is driven by the transmission's INput shaft, which is driven by the engine.

GM Hydramatic.





All the early automobiles with automatics had a rear pump so they could be push started..Ford's Fordomatics/cruiseomatics, the early GM steel cased Powerglides and right up until the minivan craze, the Chrysler Torqueflites.
No rear pump is also why you aren't supposed to pull or push an automatic powered vehicle with the drive wheels on the ground......no rear pump means the gears and bearings don't get lubricated unless the engine is running. When the Chrysler Voyagers first came out, there was even a warning sticker telling people to not even coast downhill in neutral.
As far as I know tho, Mercedes has always had a rear pump.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

RollingAcres said:


> His daughters might ask to borrow the truck. Chicks look cool in big trucks, you didn't know that STA? That's why I drive one.



I always smile whenever I see the bumper sticker on a truck that reads "Silly Boys -- Trucks are for Girls"


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## High Desert Cowboy

Woops my 0 button got over excited it was 400 not 4000.  Still not bad after driving that thing for 5 years.


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## Bruce

I agree, you still did pretty well driving it for 5 years with a capital 'cost' of -$400.

According to @greybeard's post, seems like it isn't advisable to try to push start most automatics.


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## farmerjan

@Bruce ;  @greybeard  is much more knowledgeable on the possibility of what/how an automatic can be "started" but I know my son said that we cannot do it with the forester and all other automatics I have any knowledge of from when I was a kid, cannot be pulled or rolled and "popped" into gear to start.  The newer vehicles I just don't want to get into because they are too complicated and costs too much to be worked on. 
I have a friend that had an older prius, and they did have to replace the batteries.  Not cheap.  It had about 250,000 or a bit more on it.  Don't know the year. They loved it. 
My forester had 157,000 on it, I think,  when I bought it in April, 2016.  She did not put alot of miles on it and was fanatical about oil changes and such.  Still it was a 16 year old car.  Book value was a little over that, but that is what they were going to allow her for trade in on a new vehicle.  I haven't had it for the last 4 months with the engine replacement, but it has about 280,000 on the speedometer.
The engine the guy got was out of a wrecked Legacy, with about 60,000 on it he said.  The struts were new.  One on mine was bad, so we just replaced both.  The replacement cost was as much labor as the engine.  It seems to be running good.
The 2wd ranger has about 250,000 on it now.  The 4wd have no idea if it is right and it is an 86 I think, and they didn't go up over 100,000 so don't know how many times the thing had turned over.  It runs, the heater works, wipers work, 4wd works. Rest doesn't matter.  ALOT CHEAPER than a small utv although they have some handy features.  But I cannot justify one for cow checking, when I have to go to different pastures and such. 
Yeah, the salt tears up the older vehicles up there.  My parents vehicles don't last because of the salt damage and the requirements for inspection.  Glad we don't have near that much salt here, although they are now using that "brine" before any "weather events" .  We have one of my dad's 4wd ford trucks, for the engine and stuff and the body is eat up. He used to run it between Ct and NH regularly when they still had the house in Ct before they completely retired to NH.


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## Bruce

You put 120K miles on it in 2.75 years?  How do you have time to do anything BUT drive?



farmerjan said:


> It had about 250,000 or a bit more on it. Don't know the year.


That could be important. The 2001-2003 model years are an entirely different body (4 door sedan) and engine and battery design than the 2004-2009 (4 door hatchback). Engine and battery changed again for 2010-2015 and again for 2016 - ..... I think the battery voltage is different in every one of the generations. I do know someone who bought a used 2003 a few years ago, don't know how many miles it had when the got it but at some point its traction battery went south. No idea how many miles they had on it when that happened. 

Given the vast majority of people don't keep a vehicle even close to 200K miles I doubt many original owners ever see a bad traction battery. 250K miles at 15K a year is a 17 year old car. I see a number of 2004-2009s on the road with recent plates and I see some 2001-2003s as well. Far fewer of those were sold however being it was brand new and scary technology with a funky dash. The 2004 design seemed to hit the sweet spot, many months long wait lists to get one in the first few years.


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## farmerjan

@Bruce  when I was testing more farms, I was putting an average 25-3500 miles a month on a vehicle. It was nothing to test 5-7 farms a week with over 100 miles round trip each farm.  I have 2 that I test that are 125+ miles ONE WAY from my house, and a couple more that are 50-65 miles one way.  Yes we get mileage. I figured I averaged close to 100 miles a day.  That's 3,000 a month, plus. 
Plus add in another 1,000 miles or more for the trips I was making to Pittsburg Pa for the prolotherapy treatments, every  other month at least.   To me 30-35,000 miles a year was nothing.  And to be more accurate, I looked when I was outside.  The car has 247,000, and it had 157,000 when I got it.  So not 120,000 on it, but then I also drove the 2 wd drive for the last 4 + months. Got the car in April 2016, blew the engine in Sept 2018.  90,000 in 2yrs, 5 months.
The fewer small farms, the further I travel to the "bigger farms".  I have lost several small farms in the past 3 years.  And gotten a few bigger ones that are further away.  My closest farm is 10 miles, the furthest is 127.  Used to do all the farms once a month.  That's alot of travel, more than it used to be.  When I first started testing, there were 25 small (100 cows or less) farms in Rockbridge county, and over 40 dairies in Augusta, the county north of me that I tested alot there too.  I didn't travel over 60 miles round trip to any, except one that was 102 miles. The only dairy in that county. Still do them.   There are 5 farms in Rockbridge, and all are 125 cows or more. Only 16 or 18 in the county north of here.  I travel to 7 different counties now. Average over 50 miles one way.  Not all farms test.  It is not a state requirement.  We are not part of the state...

But as I said, many farms are testing every 6 weeks or every other month.  My travel in the last 6 months has lessened alot.  Still, when you travel twice as far to one farm than you used to travel to 3 small local farms, it adds up.  
It's 20+ miles to a town of significant size, with a "grocery store", Walmart, or other type stores.... so that is 40 miles round trip. I can get gas 5 miles away, and Mcdonalds, or Wendy's or Burger King at the truck stops there.... and a Dollar store 12 miles away.... but that's about it. 
We live in the country, farm land....out in the "boonies" although with the interstate traffic, it is getting quite congested now.  Most people here travel at least 30-45 miles one way to work.  
It is 5 miles one way to the pasture where I keep my nurse cows.  When I was going twice a day, when they first came fresh, that was 20 miles a day.  I try to combine trips when I am coming from or going to work.  Doesn't always work but you do try to not make extra trips.  Still, there didn't used to be much traffic.  You have to travel 10-12 miles to find a traffic light.  If it was 30 miles to work, you figured 35-40 minutes. Especially with me, I am out at 3 a.m. so no traffic except for trucks on interstate and no one on the back roads at that hour.  Longer to come home at 8-9 a.m..  
All our vehicles have high miles.  All the 4wd drives, the farm trucks have over 200,000 on them.  The one we finally had to retire, had over 450,000 and the floor boards were rotting out and the frame was getting weak.  Kept engine, trans, other parts when we scrapped it. You rebuild it, not replace it if possible.


----------



## Bruce

Wow. I think I would have contracted with people to provide a bed so I could sleep instead of dringing home after doing one farm and the go to the closest one the next day.


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## B&B Happy goats

Hey bud, just stopping by to see how much your aching today....hope you are on the mend and resting.


----------



## Bruce

I am indeed improving, thank you for asking. The ER nurse was correct (not surprisingly) that the 2 days after were the worst. I went for my regular every other Tuesday Bowenworks massage today. After I mentioned the wedge fractures (which she didn't know anything about) she decided to stay away from my neck but did do shoulders and back and I'm sure that helped. I have an appointment at the orthopedist next Wed, I guess that means they aren't too worried or they would have figured out a way to get me in quicker, they had the MRI to look at.

This was my car. Technically it still is but it isn't a car I can drive. Had DD2 and her BF take me over to clean it out this morning.

  

And for something more pleasant to look at, this is DD2's cat Christofur on top of the cat tree.


We left the house at 1 and drove to a Toyota dealer an hour away, I had seen a car in their inventory and the pricing showed lease and loan payments. I emailed and asked what the cash price was. Seemed reasonable, Toyota has a $4K cash back and the internet sales lady had pulled off another $1,360 off MSRP. I hadn't driven a Prius Prime and won't buy a car I haven't driven so we went down. Liked the car, the salesman came back with a price. I showed him the lower price the internet lady gave me and he said OK, that is the price then. So, note to anyone looking to buy a car, check with the internet sales team AND the 'on the floor' team, they don't necessarily play with the same pricing rules.

Since it is a plug-in, there is a federal tax credit of another $4,500. Not sure what the insurance company will give me, they haven't checked the car yet but the KBB average private sales figure is about $6K. After I get the insurance payment, I can recover some of the state sales tax. They tax what you paid the dealer minus the value of the "trade in", or in this case "caved in" vehicle (if any).


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## B&B Happy goats

When are you getting your new car ?


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## B&B Happy goats

I liked the cat picture, your car makes me sad....glad you are ok.


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## CntryBoy777

Oh Wow!!.....that was a hard blow to absorb!!....so Glad ya wasn't hurt worse than ya was.........hope things workout on the other car and ya get a bit more than expected on the trade-in.........thanks for the pic of Christofur....been wondering how he was doing....and...I was wondering if ya had an opinion as to whether ya liked the Welsumers.....I apologize for not remembering their names.....


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Oh Wow!!.....that was a hard blow to absorb!!....so Glad ya wasn't hurt worse than ya was.........hope things workout on the other car and ya get a bit more than expected on the trade-in.........thanks for the pic of Christofur....been wondering how he was doing....and...I was wondering if ya had an opinion as to whether ya liked the Welsumers.....I apologize for not remembering their names.....


Christofur, the short term barn cat, turned house cat is doing well. I still have to tell him "Stop chasing the cat" (which sounds weird since he is also a cat). He is a bit over 2 years now and still loves to play.

The Welsummers, Veronica (2017) and Betty (2018) are friendly enough birds, lay dark eggs though not as productive as I had hoped. Meyer says they lay Medium eggs but mine are laying Large so no complaints there.



B&B Happy goats said:


> When are you getting your new car ?


It is parked at the house, plugged in to start charging the 8 kWh battery at 9 AM when the sun should be hitting the solar panels. It doesn't really matter when I charge, what I send to the electric company is credited at the same rate as I pay when I pull from them. Just figure it would be nicer to use my own 'juice'. It will, presumably, go 25 miles at highway speeds (I think that means like 60-65, not 75-80) on electric alone. If that is the case, I can start with the battery full and make it down to the health food store 25 miles away, plug in there while I shop (and sit for awhile since it takes 2 hours at regular charging station Amperage) and get home using no gas at all. These days, a regular week for me entails 1 trip down that way and a few closer to home, well within the 25 mile all electric distance. For long trips I can theoretically go about 600 miles on a tank of gas. I've done that with my 2 prior Prii in the summer but they didn't have any "all electric" capability.


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## Baymule

Our DD has a Chevy Volt and gets 40 miles to a charge. Round trip to work is 50 miles a day. Her gas bill is around $20 a month.


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> And for something more pleasant to look at, this is DD2's cat Christofur on top of the cat tree.


Your car pics certainly were not pleasant to look at. Glad you were not seriously hurt. Hopefully there's no other issues with your neck. Christofur is much pleasant to look at.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir

Glad to see that you are recovering, though still sore.

Wow on the car wreck!  So glad your weren't hurt any worse than you were.  Sounds like you found a good replacement Prius.  I may need to have you negotiate for me should I ever buy another vehicle (which I hope I don't).

Senile Texas Aggie


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## farmerjan

Bruce said:


> Wow. I think I would have contracted with people to provide a bed so I could sleep instead of dringing home after doing one farm and the go to the closest one the next day.


There are a couple of farms I can do back to back.  But you have to test when it is good for them.  Plus, you have to be able to rearrange your schedule when there is a reason one has to cancel and stick someone else in.
On top of that, I couldn't be gone for 24 hours straight when I had my own chores to do.  The nurse cows take more time and a routine that my son didn't have the luxury to do,  plus what he does.  And I have to be able to come home, pack samples, upload info from the computer to the processing center, get more sample bottles etc, to go to the next farm.  Add to that, I have to be able to get some sleep and although I have over the years stayed overnight, often in a motel when I was doing some farms as a relief test, you just don't sleep as well.  There are 2 now that I do together whenever I can.  I do stay at the farmers house, go up the night before to sleep because they start milking at 2 a.m. The second farm starts milking at 7:30 a.m. so I can finish at the one, and go to the second. But, I get up at 1:30 a.m. to go down the road to test at 2, get done, do the computer work and leave there by 6:45 go 15 miles to the other, start about 7:30, don't get done with all the paperwork, and the meters going through the wash cycles, til about 10:30;  get loaded back into the car and come home  and it is usually 12:30 or 1 p.m.  Then I have to get the samples packed and out for UPS.  I put in over 12 hours when I do them that way. 
Doesn't matter so much now as I don't have the workload that I had with so many farmers struggling financially, and skipping a month or more sometimes.  Plus the ones that have sold out and the 2, that I gave up a couple months ago due to their expanded parlor size and my not being able to keep up with my ankle problems.  I am ready to slow down and cut back.  I have 3 that are talking selling out in the next couple of years, and one just told me that his cows are for sale... so don't know how long they will still be milking.  Prices are so depressed for the cattle that he may still be milking for quite awhile.  They are all registered and very good cows. 
Nearly 40 years of EARLY morning hours between  milking and testing... I like not having to constantly wake up to an alarm now.  Plus any I do, I won't take on any more that want mornings.  I will do afternoons.


----------



## farmerjan

I have a question.  What value do you put on the charging of the batteries?  You may be saving in gas costs, but what does it cost to charge one of them?  I realize that you have solar @Bruce, so that is a part of what you are "producing" but what does it cost to charge them when you are somewhere else?  Are there that many places where they can be charged?  They would not be at all practical for us with needing vehicles that can pull heavy loads, and often not having the downtime in the middle of doing stuff to stop and charge them.  Night time charging is fine, but to only go 25-40 miles and needing to recharge would just not work for us.  Do companies where people work allow "charging"?


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Our DD has a Chevy Volt and gets 40 miles to a charge. Round trip to work is 50 miles a day. Her gas bill is around $20 a month.


I considered looking at a Volt and found that Chevy is not going to make them after this year. I am concerned about their commitment to anything. GM had an all electric in the late 90s, made maybe 1,000 all leased and when they canned the program, they crushed the cars. When the 2004 Prius came out, GM dumped all over it and said wait for our hydrogen car, coming in 5 years. Every succeeding year it was "coming in 5 years, wait". Where is is now? Right, non existent. Prius is still selling quite well. They are, in theory, going big into all electric. At the moment their only all electric model is the Bolt, with all the safety features available and the rebates, it would be $7,600 more than the Prime I got and still not have all the features.

The Volt does have more electric range capability than the Prime and seats 5. I had to think about that some. The original Volt seated only 4 like the Prime and I did downgrade it for that along with the poor MPG (37) it got when the gas engine ran (on high test no less. That adds about $0.40/gallon here). The newer model improved to seating 5 and gets EPA 42 MPG on regular gas. The MPGe went from 92 to 106 starting with the 2016 model, the electric range went from 40 to 53, all good improvements. The Prius Prime has an EPA combined of 54 (which I regularly exceeded in the summer with both my 2004 and 2009 which spec'ed at 50 MPG) and a MPGe of 133. Of course to get those EPA MPGe values you have to drive the EPA test routes which likely fit no one. The other glitch in the Volt vs Prius Prime is the price. Even after the $4,500 rebate on the Prime and the $7,500 on the Volt, the Volt, with all the safety features on the Prime Advanced still costs $9.6K more than the Prime.

I had hoped my next car would be an all electric but the totalling of my 2009 Prius kinda of stomped on that. There are more choices just now coming out and I would have liked another year or two to see what each manufacturer came up with and which were weeded out before I bought in. At the moment the only 200+ mile EVs I know about are the Bolt and the Tesla. Nearest US Tesla dealer to me is in Boston, not real convenient for a test drive. AND they are a lot more money even for the Model 3 that came out last year. Maybe DW's next car will be all electric.


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> I have a question.  What value do you put on the charging of the batteries?  You may be saving in gas costs, but what does it cost to charge one of them?  I realize that you have solar @Bruce, so that is a part of what you are "producing" but what does it cost to charge them when you are somewhere else?  Are there that many places where they can be charged?  They would not be at all practical for us with needing vehicles that can pull heavy loads, and often not having the downtime in the middle of doing stuff to stop and charge them.  Night time charging is fine, but to only go 25-40 miles and needing to recharge would just not work for us.  Do companies where people work allow "charging"?


Our electric rates are $0.15/kWh, thus the cost for 25 miles would be $1.32 (8.8 kWh battery). With gas at $2.49 now (seems like it went up in the last couple of days), 25 miles in my prior car would cost about the same. 

As you said, we have solar panels and they generate more than we use. I lost close to $100 in credits last year because they lapse 1 year from when they are booked. Generally speaking, I'm using credits only Nov - Feb and accruing them the other months. Some areas have time of use rates, usually lower at night. The only thing we have with my power company is lower rates at night if they control your electric water heater, it won't run between 4:30 and 10:30 PM and you pay less for electricity when it is running. 

There are some places that have free charging, like the health food store in South Burlington. Some businesses do allow employee charging, there are at least 2 at the hospital were I was in the ER. I don't know if they charge to use them. I expect the number of employers allowing charging will increase as more EVs are sold. There are some EV stations around, I haven't looked to see what they cost per kWh because I wasn't expecting to need them.

And you are right, you are not going to pull heavy loads with a Prius Prime or any other Prius. But because the Prime isn't all electric, it has a range of over 600 miles gas plus electric. "Range anxiety" is a real thing and when the first EVs came out the range was something like 70 miles, it increased over time in the Nissan Leaf to 107 in 2016 and is up to 150 miles now. That is summer, not winter. Using the battery to drive AND heat the occupants uses more power. Good enough only for relatively short daily commutes. 

The all electric Bolt has a range of 238 miles. I consider 200 mile electric range to be the minimum *I* would want in a pure EV and if I had only 1 vehicle I would rent on the occasions I needed to go much farther than that. There are charging stations all over the country, more in some areas than others. If you happen to be going somewhere you will be shopping or sleeping for some hours, the car can charge while you are doing that. Some hotels have charging stations and I know there are some at airports. There is a charging curve that is something like the first 50% goes fast, the last 20% much slower. Thus with some planning you can go a bit farther than max range miles and not take many, many hours to fully recharge before you arrive. But it wouldn't be near as fast as pumping 10 gallons of liquid into your tank. Nope, EVs are not currently for everyone but I hope they continue to improve in the future such that they make sense for more people.


----------



## Bruce

Cleaned the pond fishes' "winter home", they look like this now

  
The one was always bigger than the other but the difference is greater now.

The prior picture is here for comparison
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/bruces-journal.34651/page-229#post-591569


----------



## Baymule

They might not want to go back to the pond, you might have yourself some house fish!


----------



## Bruce

Life in the bucket is certainly easier and safer. Free ranging isn't really a possibility though.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Life in the bucket is certainly easier and safer.


Yes but NO FUN.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> The one was always bigger than the other but the difference is greater now.
> 
> The prior picture is here for comparison
> https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/bruces-journal.34651/page-229#post-591569


----------



## RollingAcres




----------



## RollingAcres

@Bruce are you back in VT yet or you decided to stay in sunny FL?


----------



## Baymule

He probably has a travel hangover.


----------



## CntryBoy777

One thing is for sure.....he covered a whole lot of miles in his week long escapade!!....and was a pure "Blessing" for us...


----------



## Bruce

Got home about 11:30 last night. Had to get up at 6:30 to put the trash and recycles out. Never have any idea when they will collect  Had to pick the recycle one up 3 times before I went shopping at 10 AM, got back at 1:30 and picked it up again. At least nothing had dumped out. Fortunately they came by and collected it while I was unloading the car. Trash barrel hasn't been blown over yet. I guess I need to add "build a dual can 'corral' out at the road" to my list of tasks.

Off to physical therapy for my neck soon.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I noticed that ya had a pretty steady "breeze" up there.....sure hope therapy goes Well!!....


----------



## Baymule

Nothing like Home Sweet Home and flying trash cans. LOL


----------



## greybeard

Cold up there, but I put the diesel porch heater away today, and plugged the bug zappers in tonight. They're working non-stop on mosquitoes and small black bugs I don't know what are. I would open up the mesh grid guard some, to kill all the dang June bugs, but scared it would start a fire...bug zappers fire off as long as the insect has any electrically conductive liquid in their body and June bugs have a lot.
Silly things seem to have no plan at all...they fly well enough, but their navigation and landing skills are questionable...just fly around blindly till they crash into something, fall to the deck and just crawl about and die. In all these years, I've never seen a single one ever take off again once they land. (Obviously can't read a calendar either)


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> I noticed that ya had a pretty steady "breeze" up there.....sure hope therapy goes Well!!....


It was breezy when we landed too, the last 10 minutes had us rockin' and rollin'. Clouds coming in now going to get maybe 1/4" of rain and maybe a bit of snow. Supposed to be 53° tomorrow.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> It was breezy when we landed too, the last 10 minutes had us rockin' and rollin'. Clouds coming in now going to get maybe 1/4" of rain and maybe a bit of snow. Supposed to be 53° tomorrow.



It's  a shorts day here @Bruce ....go figure


----------



## CntryBoy777

Did the therapy help to loosen up the neck and shoulders for ya?....


----------



## Bruce

B&B Happy goats said:


> It's  a shorts day here @Bruce ....go figure


It would have been Wed as well but that was travel day.

I think it is going to be some time before my neck is back to normal. We old people heal slowly.


----------



## Baymule

Maybe you need some more U-Haul driving therapy, followed by furniture lifting therapy. Anybody else moving? Bruce needs to get his neck back right again!


----------



## Bruce

We had a small amount of snow Tue night into Wed morning. I figured out that one of my hens, likely Lana the Golden Campine, went walkabout. I saw prints by the barn door and in the area behind the barn, looked like they started from nowhere near the fence that extends west from the SW corner of the little barn and went back north along the back of the barn. Later I saw some prints by the south side of the little barn, outside the fenced area in the backyard. I back tracked those around the front of the little barn and along the front of the big barn to the north end where they started. Near as I can tell, she came out the alpacas' always open door on the north end of the barn alley, FLEW the 35' to the piece of fence at the NE corner of the big barn, then walked around along the fronts of the barns, along the south side of the little barn then went through the cattle panel into the fenced area behind the barns. I really need to get some chicken wire over those panels since all the chickens can go through the 8x8 openings. Won't stop Lana though, she can squeeze between the verticals in the gate. And if I bar that, she can easily fly up the 5' necessary to go over the top.


----------



## CntryBoy777

May need to pull a couple of feathers, or clip some on the wings to keep her earth-bound.....


----------



## Baymule

Lana is a sneaky chicken, getting out and walking around. You need to lecture her about raccoons!


----------



## Rammy

And fox's, and possums, amd coyotes, and stupid people in cars, and dogs...


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## Bruce

Especially foxes this time of year. Both times I lost a hen to a fox it was near the end of April. That was before there was any decent fencing. My guess is they have their kits (do foxes kindle too??) before their natural food supply is up and running. Fence doesn't help if the girls let themselves out though.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Are ya still recouping form ya "trip lag" and "catching up" adventure?....


----------



## Bruce

All recovered from that. 

Today's "excitement" was cutting up the top half of a tree that snapped over, NEARLY all the way up by the north end of the NE field. There were some branches reaching down into the road, I used the loppers 3 days ago to get them out of the way. Yesterday I noticed the broken part was down. Either the town (the tree is in the road right of way) or someone else pulled it down given it wasn't where it would have fallen naturally.

Would have been a good time to have a grapple but easy enough to get the forks under the bigger parts and hand stacking the small branches on the front of the forks for the ride back to the blocking/splitting  area in front of the barn. Got the reasonable size parts cut to 16". I would drop the rest of the tree, pretty rotted down low but there is another tree growing right up next to it on the north side, doesn't veer off until about 7' up. Thus, dropping it south, parallel with the road isn't likely. The other options are:
Dropping it east into the road.
Dropping it west into the power line. 
And, given it isn't actually on my property, I probably shouldn't drop it at all without town approval.

Supposed to rain overnight but no rain again tomorrow so I think I'll start blocking the trees I dropped last fall and brought up near the wood blocking/splitting area. They need to start drying out for next winter!


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## Bruce

The wood from that tree

 

and the smaller branches. I picked those up with the forks and drove them over to the burn pit
 

The pile I cut last fall
 

I was going to finish up this morning but DD2 came home from an overnight with her mini spare on so with the tractor warmed up, I picked up a pallet and fetched her summer tires and the compressor from the workshop and swapped her tires for the season. 

Here are the remaining logs
 

And the pile of wood blocked so far. I'm starting to think I need a saw more powerful than my little Stihl MS 180 "homeowner" saw. 
  

Noticed the mount for the winch on the garden tractor was racked, couldn't lift the blower all the way up when I drove the GT out of the barn to turn it around so I could store the blower. Took the chains, blower and rear weight off the garden tractor. Guess I'll need to deal with the winch before next winter.


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## Bruce

For future reference, here is the pond when full. There is some water trickling down into it from the SW corner where I drove down to dig it out. There is a low spot in the field not far to the south, always wet after winter so I guess there is a seasonal spring there.
From the east side, looking south then north:
  
From the north east corner
 

From the south


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## Rammy

Want some ducks?


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## Bruce

Only if you want to hang out here in the winter to make sure they have unfrozen water for their basic needs. DW wouldn't mind ducks but she's not got time to deal with them since she works 6 days a week.


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## B&B Happy goats

Sure looks like you have been busy around the farm..... winter is almost over for you, what is your summer project  and how is your neck ?


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## Bruce

Neck is about 90%.
Summer projects .... well 

I need to cut a lot more wood, sooner than later. Def need a new saw, my MS 180 is classed for "Occasional use, Fallen limbs, pruning, lighter cutting. And I've been using it like a forestry saw. Guess I've been beating the heck out of it. It was fine when I got it, I wasn't cutting down trees for firewood.
Need to make 7 more wood racks
DW would like some of the interior trim on the house done (meaning bought/made and installed)
Sure would like to build a roofed wood drying/storage area
Need to get the garden going and this year have time to weed and pick. I was hard on the pond last year and it was let go. No one else seems to think they should do much in the garden.
Would like to clean up the stuff I pulled out of the pond and put it somewhere useful. Have lots of low spots or places where the ledge is high. But of course there is a lot of clay in the stuff I pulled out, might want to figure out how to mix other stuff into it. Know anywhere I could get some sand?  
Need to clean out the chicken coop and put in new shavings.
Need to do alpaca feet and shear
Need to figure out how to use my new flail mower and mow the fields at the appropriate time.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Neck is about 90%.
> Summer projects .... well
> 
> I need to cut a lot more wood, sooner than later. Def need a new saw, my MS 180 is classed for "Occasional use, Fallen limbs, pruning, lighter cutting. And I've been using it like a forestry saw. Guess I've been beating the heck out of it. It was fine when I got it, I wasn't cutting down trees for firewood.
> Need to make 7 more wood racks
> DW would like some of the interior trim on the house done (meaning bought/made and installed)
> Sure would like to build a roofed wood drying/storage area
> Need to get the garden going and this year have time to weed and pick. I was hard on the pond last year and it was let go. No one else seems to think they should do much in the garden.
> Would like to clean up the stuff I pulled out of the pond and put it somewhere useful. Have lots of low spots or places where the ledge is high. But of course there is a lot of clay in the stuff I pulled out, might want to figure out how to mix other stuff into it. Know anywhere I could get some sand?
> Need to clean out the chicken coop and put in new shavings.
> Need to do alpaca feet and shear
> Need to figure out how to use my new flail mower and mow the fields at the appropriate time.


Ain't  country livin great


----------



## CntryBoy777

Surely ya have some haulers up there....just have to check and get ya a load or 2....sand should be cheap.....


----------



## Bruce

I wanted sand from my friends
Made it to Bangor, off to Mt. Allison in the morning.


----------



## Bruce

We have made it back to Bangor, 1 more day of travel.

I thought of @CntryBoy777  & @B&B Happy goats this morning at 3:30. Maybe I should not travel. Had breakfast with Fred and Joyce at the waffle House last month, 2 guards outside. Lunch with Barb and Leon, SWAT team across the road. Then later the flashing blues on the road in front of their house. This morning I was woken by some loud knocking on a door in the hallway. Somewhat loud talking that didn't stop quickly so I was thinking those people were pretty rude. Got up and went to the bathroom, put my glasses on, checked the time and looked out the peephole. Door across the hall was open, 1 female and 1 male cop outside. Apparently they were arresting a lady from the room. There was a man in the room as well but I don't think he was also getting a ride. They could have at least let her (and me!) sleep until 6.

This police presence seems to be getting awfully frequent and close! Not that they have any reason to get closer to me.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, we didn't have any issues with "blue lights" all the way down here.....tho, the ambulance the first night on our side of the bldg was a bit irritating flashing red and white lights thru the drapes.....but, somebody was moving furniture all night above us............how far is Bangor from your house?....


----------



## Baymule

You have a good summer list of things to do. It ought to keep you busy all summer. The pond looks real good, now you need a gazebo out by it. Strombergs has a star plate kit that looks pretty easy.

https://www.strombergschickens.com/starplate_building_system

I want a gazebo and a BBQ hut. We are finally getting around to cleaning up the tangle on the side of the house where I want to put them. It sure would be nice if you built a gazebo before I do so you could take lots of pictures, make the mistakes and tell me all about it. LOL LOL LOL


----------



## Bruce

I'm sure the alpacas and chickens would love a gazebo as well. However, if I spend any money out there it will be to fix the barns. I could probably build hundreds if not thousands of those starplate buildings for what the barns would cost to fix.

Bangor is 300 miles from home and 300 miles from Sackville, NB where the school is. I have determined that 70 MPH makes for sucky MPG.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It does drop the faster that ya go....but, it can be worth it on the "long run".....if ya avg 55mph for 10hrs, ya have went 550miles.....but if ya drive 75 for the same 10hrs, ya are 200 more miles down the road....just depends if ya want stay in the seat for that long....I grew up in 55mph law and was thrilled when it finally changed.........I guess driving a truck for yrs got me use to burning fuel.....getting from 4-8mpg was normal....depending on gvw and wind....and how many hills ya gotta top.....


----------



## Bruce

True. But next time we'll stick to Rt 9 in Maine. 39 miles shorter, 55 max for the Maine leg, about 7 minutes longer than taking I-95. Really see no benefit to the "go north then east" route. Figured there would be more rest areas that way but nope.

I guess you could laugh at me for this I suppose given that even at 70 MPH I'm kickin' butt on all y'alls pickups (and even your cars). Heck, you'ld almost be happy getting the difference between 55 MPH and 70 MPH in my car 

Found an egg in the pond yesterday. I was actually looking at the pond to see what life was in it. Saw plenty of frog egg masses and then this one (turned out to be) 60g egg. KINDA greenish, not sure if it was originally white and maybe got some algae coloring on. Not entirely sure it isn't a wild mallard egg though why she would have laid a single egg with no nearby nest I don't know. But my white layers on a good day don't make 60g. Is a puzzlement. I've occasionally seen 2 male and 1 female mallard plus 2 Canada geese on the pond the last couple of weeks. Just passing through I'm sure, I've never had them stay for the summer.


----------



## CntryBoy777

These days and times a "peaceful" drive is much better than the "rat race" that is faced on the "big roads"....course road quality does matter, but so does "bumper to bumper" traffic.........something about the egg......if a waterfowl is a new layer or is having some difficulty in the laying process....floating in water can help to relax enough for the egg to drop....I don't know about size or color of mallard or canadian eggs, but the green tint may have come from the frog eggs....they usually lay in algae or mosses.....


----------



## Bruce

That is why after we went the northern USA route to DD2's college in Wisconsin to drop her off the first time it was also the LAST time. We came home through Canada (eh) and all subsequent trips were that route. USA route packed, 4 lanes, with people all in a hurry to get where they are going ... or the next toll booth. You get to go through big cities like Cleveland and Chicago  (nice place to visit, sure wouldn't want to live there). The Canada route was 100 miles longer and 1000% less stressful. If you are going to drive 3 days, one way, it might as well be a pleasant trip.


----------



## Baymule

Our diesel truck gets 12-15 MPG, the car gets 23. Yeah, I'd love better mileage, but I sure wouldn't want a new car/truck note.


----------



## Bruce

If it makes you feel any better, I think the moving van only got about 8 MPG.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I will say....and did a Fine job at driving to get that good mileage!!.....


----------



## Bruce

Just keeping up with you! Except when I had to go through that checkpoint in Florida. I imagine the van would have done better on 55 MPH roads than the 70-75 MPH we were running.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I think the moving van only got about 8 MPG.



yes I feel much better now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

ohhhhh Bay


----------



## Bruce

Bought the Echo CS-590 chainsaw yesterday, didn't get a chance to use it because I needed to swap DD1's snow tires for the summers. Ran the saw today, seems to work well on the big stuff. Ran into a problem with the small stuff (2"), it likes to spin the piece and get the teeth hung up. I figured out that unlike the small Stihl saw, cutting the small stuff close to the engine isn't the right place, have to cut it way out on the end. The teeth on the Echo are about 3x the size of those on the Stihl, I guess that isn't a surprise since the Stihl is classed for limit use for things like pruning.


----------



## Bruce

Changed the pond fishes' water again today, so full of algae I could barely see the fish to net them out.
Bigger fish

 

Smaller fish
 

Both
 

Top view


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> Changed the pond fishes' water again today, so full of algae I could barely see the fish to net them out.
> Bigger fish
> View attachment 61593
> 
> Smaller fish
> View attachment 61595
> 
> Both
> View attachment 61594
> 
> Top view
> View attachment 61596


Run wild, run free......


----------



## CntryBoy777

Shouldn't be too much longer before they get an Increase in "playground" size.....have ya cranked the chainsaw yet?....


----------



## Bruce

Yep, posted that on Tuesday. No need to crank it again until I go out and cut down some more trees, a bit wet out there at the moment. 

I'm trying to decide if I should make an enclosure in the pond to keep the fish where I can see them for a bit or just let the loose and hope they make it. If I don't see them again, I either ASSUME they are in there somewhere or ASSUME they died. In any case I have to wait until the water temp in the pond is close to that of the house which generally is between 65° and 68°.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Free the fish...free the fish...


----------



## Rammy

Run, Forrest, Run!


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I either ASSUME they are in there somewhere or ASSUME they died.


or sumpthin ate 'em.... nyum nyum nyum...


----------



## Baymule

You could tie a balloon to their fins.  No balloon, no fish. See the balloon, you still have fish.


----------



## Bruce




----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya could put some cheap goldfish in the pond....a dz or so....and see how they do....get them locally and they should be really cheap....pet stores sell them as "feeders" for other fish....they are of the carp family and will eat algae....when water is shallow they can breath air from the surface.....


----------



## Bruce

I'll likely get some Golden Shiners and/or Fathead Minnows. They are native species though the bait shops get them from a hatchery in NY.


----------



## Bruce

There were some just hatched and hatching tadpoles in the pond the other day, now disappeared into the depths. The pond is 55° so warming up for the bucket fish.

Scraped some of the "excess" road left by the grader down into the driveway with the tractor bucket. Sometimes they leave a ridge at the edge, as they did the last time.

Used the tractor backhoe and pallet forks to get some large rocks out of the fields. These only stick up a few inches, but high enough to get hit by the mower blades and would also get hit by the cutters on the new flail mower. True icebergs these, substantially more rock below the surface than below. They are rocks I found in the past with the Garden Tractor and most were marked with old ski poles that were left in the barn by the prior owner of the property.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It won't be too long and they will be singing a tune for ya.....
I know ya was glad to have the "muscle" to deal with the rocks.....


----------



## Bruce

Yep, I had previously pulled out some rocks that attacked the mower blades, before I had the tractor. The ones I pulled today were ones I either could move in their holes some but much too heavy to pull out or too big to even try. I did run into some that the tractor couldn't deal with and there is ledge in places that will stay there until they are blown up with TNT (no I don't have any nor an explosives license) or a massive lightning strike shatters them. Not holding my breath on that either


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## Baymule

Some things are meant to go around.


----------



## Bruce

As long as you have them marked with old ski poles left under the drive bay by the prior owners! And of course before you can mark them, you have to take chunks out of your mower blades.


----------



## greybeard

You can buy tannerite without a license.......


----------



## Baymule

greybeard said:


> You can buy tannerite without a license.......


Where do you get it and how do you use it?
(helping you out here, Bruce)


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> You can buy tannerite without a license.......


True, but as you yourself said when that product was discussed in the past, best not to be using it in place of TNT for fear the regulators will take away unlicensed access.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Just paint them ....ya could get creative in your painting...a big smiling  face, a alien creature, moon rock,


----------



## Bruce

Wouldn't work, if I could see that, I could miss them now. Can't see them when the grass/weeds get high.
Maybe someone would like to drop a few thousand yards of good topsoil in the north field. Then I could spread it out over the ledge and all the low spots.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

Just caught up on your journal.  As I mentioned on @CntryBoy777's journal, sorry I missed out on helping you guys.  And it would have been wonderful to meet you and the rest of the folks.  I hope I will be able to do so soon.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Baymule

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Mr. @Bruce,
> 
> Just caught up on your journal.  As I mentioned on @CntryBoy777's journal, sorry I missed out on helping you guys.  And it would have been wonderful to meet you and the rest of the folks.  I hope I will be able to do so soon.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


Are you back now? We have been missing you.


----------



## Bruce

He's baaaaack!

We're going to move the compost out from the fenced garden area because:

It is a pain in the winter
We want to put in another 4 (hopefully better than the ones that came with the house) blueberry bushes and the compost area is right where they would go. 
We want to have a proper 3 bin rotation 
So I moved the old fence boards that were piled where we want to put "official" compost bins rather than just one big pile. One trip with the tractor and pallet forks, dumped it in front of the barn with other scrap wood. I could have hiked it over a few boards at a time though the posts with concrete on the bottoms would have been a problem. That was step 1 in cleaning out the chicken coop (and boy does it need cleaning out). But first I have to have somewhere to put it. 

Then I split a run (ie 1/3 cord) of the wood I blocked a week or so back and put it in a rack. Sure wish that new (and returned) fast splitter had worked. That relatively small amount of wood took 2 hours by myself. It would be faster with two but even then the splitter is really slow.

Exciting day tomorrow. Going to pay the last installment on the property taxes. And get: 

Pool chemicals, their spring chemical sale starts tomorrow, any opportunity to save some money!
diesel for the tractor 
non ethanol gas for the string trimmer and chain saws
regular gas for the garden tractor
And yes that is at 3 different stations. Thursday is $0.05 off in the city to the north and I get $0.05 off Shell anytime so the regular gas will come from there at probably $2.779. But they don't sell untainted gas and neither they nor the place that does carries off road diesel (less tax than on road diesel but still more than gasoline). I have 1/4 tank in the car so I'm not in need but since I'm there I guess I'll fill up.  Currently about 800 miles on the tank I got in Skowhegan, ME (230 miles from home) back on April 20th when we were coming back from picking up DD1, 101 MPG, not complaining


----------



## Baymule

I have projects like that. To do "A" I have to move "B". To move "B" I have to finish "C". To finish "C" I have to start "D", to start "D" I have to go to Lowes.......and so it goes......Wait, where was I?


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Wait, where was I?


EXACTLY!!!!!


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> diesel for the tractor
> 
> non ethanol gas for the string trimmer and chain saws
> 
> regular gas for the garden tractor


I've used the same gasoline for the lawn tractor, chainsaw and weedwhacker for the last 8-10 years now, and yes, the fuel does  have ethanol in it. 
Just insist on a good quality 2 cycle oil (assuming the saw and trimmer are 2 cycle) and run them completely out of fuel when you get ready to store them for any length of time and they will last for years. My saws and my weed whacker were all bought 2007,2008 or 2009 and the latest. I've abused the crap out of all of them..
I think highway diesel is about $2.78 here, and regular unleaded gasoline was $2.499 yesterday abut 20 miles South when I filled up. Farm diesel was $2.3something last time I got some.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir!

I thought of you yesterday as I was watching a video on YouTube.  I was looking for some videos that explain how to use a box blade.  I still haven't found any that I think are worth a crap, and my driveway is in need of repair again.  Anyway, I found a video on using a box blade on a channel that I had not seen before and watched it.  (In my opinion, it wasn't that good.)  While I was on the channel, I decided to see what other videos the guy had.  The one that made me think of you had to do with removing rock ledges using small explosives.  I remembered how you had trouble with your rock ledges while digging out your pond and I seem to recall while in your fields.  I really perked up when I read in the comments that you don't need a license to use the explosives.  Here is the video, in case you are interested:





Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

I think I saw that product some time back, if not that then something similar. Somewhat cost prohibitive unless you have a lot of rocks to blast over a period of time or can hire yourself out to blast other people's rock. I did find a place that rented them but they are 3.5 hours away, one way. The daily rental wouldn't work out given I'd have to rent if for 3 days minimum and 2 of those days would be to pick up and return the "machine". But maybe I should put a query out on Craig's List or something to see if anyone has one for sale cheap or uses it to blast rock cheap.

Not a problem with ledge in the pond, in fact the presence of the ledge allowed me to dig out the built up muck down to the ledge which slopes downhill. I think that is why the pond was built where it is. If not for the ledge, my tractor would be stuck in the muck  But yes, ledge in the field when fencing was a problem. One corner post is only 2' down and held with concrete. Two other posts I wanted to put in never made it, I hit ledge and water about 1' down. The clay holds water so well it doesn't even run over the rock ledge under the clay.


----------



## Bruce

Busy day today

Got up at 7, fed the cats (yes the ones that woke us up)
Made French Toast, fed DW and DD2 (DD1 is in Indiana) and me
Started adding more water to DW's pool. I've vacuumed to waste twice to get all the needles and fine dust/dirt out of it. Several hours of time.
Yesterday I discovered a zerk was missing on the garden tractor mower deck when I was prepping it for use. Found one this morning, installed it, greased that spindle, put the deck on and mowed
Spent a good half hour plus scraping the wet grass (though it hasn't rained since Friday) out of the deck. I still can't believe they waste the time to put a "washout port" on the deck. It is as effective as if I were to spit on it.
Turned water off in the pool, backwashed. Ready for water test and chemicals, only ready for penguins to swim in it though, 55°.
Came in for a short rest and forum time (and a Dr. Pepper)
Split a bit over a run of cordwood, DD2 helped. Said it was because DW asked her to but she would have anyway if I asked nice with a "please". Having a second person took about 1/2 off the job since there was always someone splitting or getting the wedge in position for the next piece. 
Made lasagna for dinner.


----------



## Mike CHS

I think this daughter actually likes to help.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

You were busy, busy!


----------



## Baymule

Sounds like a good day!


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I think this daughter actually likes to help.


Perhaps but you'ld never know it. We were close to done filling the rack and she was checking her watch, getting close to 5 PM. Time to quit because it is cat dinner time. Mind you she often doesn't feed them exactly at 5 when she's busy doing whatever she does in her room all day. Never see her unless it is time to eat or I go ask for something. 

One might think that an adult living cost free with the parents would be looking for ways to help.


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> Busy day today
> 
> Got up at 7, fed the cats (yes the ones that woke us up)
> Made French Toast, fed DW and DD2 (DD1 is in Indiana) and me
> Started adding more water to DW's pool. I've vacuumed to waste twice to get all the needles and fine dust/dirt out of it. Several hours of time.
> Yesterday I discovered a zerk was missing on the garden tractor mower deck when I was prepping it for use. Found one this morning, installed it, greased that spindle, put the deck on and mowed
> Spent a good half hour plus scraping the wet grass (though it hasn't rained since Friday) out of the deck. I still can't believe they waste the time to put a "washout port" on the deck. It is as effective as if I were to spit on it.
> Turned water off in the pool, backwashed. Ready for water test and chemicals, only ready for penguins to swim in it though, 55°.
> Came in for a short rest and forum time (and a Dr. Pepper)
> Split a bit over a run of cordwood, DD2 helped. Said it was because DW asked her to but she would have anyway if I asked nice with a "please". Having a second person took about 1/2 off the job since there was always someone splitting or getting the wedge in position for the next piece.
> Made lasagna for dinner.


Your a good wife, Bruce.


----------



## Bruce

Somebody's got to do it!


----------



## Bruce

Sunday I decided to rip out the crappy old fence, here it is dumped in front of the barn



While doing that I came across a rock that has caused problem mowing in the past so I decided to dig it out out. While doing so I blew a hydraulic hose. I was not even putting much pressure on the bucket at the time, must have been the best straw that broke the camel's back.

Stopped by the dealer on the way back from errands because I wanted to ask the approximate price of getting a third function on the back of the tractor for the side shift flail mower. $2K! Ok, getting 2 hoses to steal the curl/dump control from the loader.

Instead of collecting the tractor, they sent one of the guys to take the blown hose off the tractor (he lives just a few miles north of me). So I took the shield off the control valves and when he came we figured out which hose was leaking when we raised and lowered the boom. He decided to pull both for that cylinder, good thing he did because when the covers were taken off both had holes in them. He'll bring the replacements (made locally) along with the 7' hoses for the flail tomorrow. 

Now the part I don't understand is how the hoses that are connected to the boom cylinder seem to connect to the control for the bucket. Pictures coming, please hold. They are on the phone


----------



## Bruce

Looking at the back of the controls. The one on the left extends/retracts the dipper and curls/dumps the bucket. The one on the right moves the boom in and out and side to side. The little ones in the center are for the outriggers 
 

The boom cylinder rotated out of the boom so the hoses could be disconnected. 

Perhaps MR. @greybeard can explain this to me!


----------



## Bruce

NEVERMIND!
My misunderstanding. The cylinder that is rotated out (the one that had the blown hoses) is the one that extends and retracts the dipper. And yes that is the control on the left in the picture. If you think about the physics of where that cylinder is attached, that would be obvious. The reason those hoses were leaking when we extended and retracted the boom is because we had to extend the dipper before the boom could be lowered more than about a foot. The repair guy came back with the hoses this morning. Bear of a time to get fabric covered hoses shoved through an even bigger fabric cover that encases all 6 fabric covered hoses that go out the boom. Probably didn't help that there was hydraulic fluid on the big cover and it rained a lot last night as well.

I put the cover over the controls and figured I should check the hydraulic fluid level so I drove the tractor up to the parking area (the only SORT OF level area on the property) and needed to bring the boom up, dipper and bucket in to do so. Only pulling the lever toward the tractor pushed the dipper out and pushing it out brought the dipper in. Wrong guess (unmarked) on the repair guy's part as to which hose went on top. Since we both thought it was the boom in/out that was causing the leak and when the hoses were replaced the right side lever worked as expected and there was no leak, figured the hoses were connected properly. Thus I got to take the cover off again, swap the hoses and replace the cover.

Educational at least!


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Stopped by the dealer on the way back from errands because I wanted to ask the approximate price of getting a third function on the back of the tractor for the side shift flail mower. $2K! Ok, getting 2 hoses to steal the curl/dump control from the loader.


"Power Beyond" port....


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure glad ya was able to get it fixed....ya learned some good "stuff" to refer back to, in case something like that happens again....hydraulics are Great....as long as it is working.....


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> "Power Beyond" port....


I found some videos that explained how the Power Beyond works, seems like the simplest solution would be to have a valve I could plug into the existing quick connects on the back of the tractor for the backhoe. Obviously wouldn't be using the hoe and a mower at the same time  The tractor runs fluid full time so the valve would have to have a (probably bad wording) passthrough connection. If I take the BH off I have to connect the "return" hose into one of the supply hoses.


----------



## Bruce

Lack of LGD has now cost me one of my best layers. I put up a fence that would keep the dog in, dog was supposed to keep predators out. Well no dog and now no Yuki. Trail of white feathers inside the fenced area from behind the barn to the west fence line. Feathers on both sides so apparently not only can a fox get in through the field fence, it can also drag a full grown large fowl through. Feathers also found at the edge of the woods.  I suppose I should be happy that it hasn't happened before but now that it has, I'm sure the fox will come back. This was a DAYTIME event.

I guess tomorrow I'll be going to TSC and buying multiple 100' rolls of no climb horse fence. No way I can get longer rolls in the car and I don't yet have a cargo tray for the new car. Will have to go with the 120 pound 100' rolls and get help to put them in the car. I can lift them out with tractor using one of the pallet forks.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> (probably bad wording) passthrough connection.


"Open Center"

An aftermarket add on valve will also have a PB connection, and I'm surprised your existing FEL loader valve doesn't.


----------



## Baymule

Sorry about your layer. Chickens are livestock and pets too.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> "Open Center"
> 
> An aftermarket add on valve will also have a PB connection, and I'm surprised your existing FEL loader valve doesn't.


It very likely does based on some videos I watched. THOUGH, it could be that the connections for the backhoe are already using the PB on the loader valve. One video I watched started with the basic hydraulics then added (schematically) more valves, tapping into the existing hose coming from the loader valve PB.


----------



## greybeard

Every valve I ever saw, oem or aftermarket, had the PB port marked "PB" "T" or "TC" but there is an adapter that is used on any valve that does not have a dedicated PB port. 
If your backhoe was rigged up at the dealer it was probably plumbed into the tractor's OEM hydraulic block that comes off the side of the transmission. That block would have it's own PB port.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

I'm about to show my ignorance yet again, but do you or does anyone else know if there are LGDs that don't bark, at least not much?  Any time a predator comes onto the property it would simply deal with the problem, and then perhaps bark to let you know that the predator had been dealt with?  I know you had problems with your previous dog barking and keeping your poor wife awake, but maybe there is a breed that doesn't bark that much but still would guard the place.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

I don't know STA. 

This morning I bought four 100' rolls of 48" knotted horse fence. After lunch I start fencing. At least this time it is "only" stretching and tying off, no posts to set. That will come later when I replace the rotting fence around the front and side yards of the house. 

I think I'm going to add a strand of hot wire on the outside of the fence about a foot down from the top. The existing hot wire is 6" above the fencing but on the inside. Thinking about it, I won't be able to stretch the south line since it is all cattle panels and no braced posts. There is a LOT of rock and that tree I had to fence around in the south line. I guess the new fencing will be unstretched there. 

@greybeard, I'll have to crawl under the tractor (WAY easier than crawling under the cars ) and see if there is an unused PB port on the loader valve.  The tractor was built as a TLB so based on your experience there is probably an available PB port as you stated.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Mr. @Bruce,
> 
> I'm about to show my ignorance yet again, but do you or does anyone else know if there are LGDs that don't bark, at least not much?  Any time a predator comes onto the property it would simply deal with the problem, and then perhaps bark to let you know that the predator had been dealt with?  I know you had problems with your previous dog barking and keeping your poor wife awake, but maybe there is a breed that doesn't bark that much but still would guard the place.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie



Dear STA, I have always been a "hater" of barking dogs. Having Mel come into our lives has made me rethink my position....Mel barks alot at night, and often during the day, it is his way of letting other animals, people and sounds , know that this is HIS turf, and they need to stay away. I have seen dogs walking down our road and turn around and run away when Mel goes to barking at them....Grown men cross the street or not get out of their vehicle  because of his bark. He is doing his job and I have grown to love the bark, even in the middle of the night.....He makes me know I am safe.
With all of the robotic technology  we have, you may be able to find a robotic  dog you could program to your liking....but I don't  think it would do as good a job as a LGD that is bonded with its partner/owner and would give his life to protect you and your loved ones....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

I was suggesting to Mr. @Bruce that if such a breed exists then he might consider it.  I don't know if you have read all of Mr. Bruce's journal or not, but if you haven't, Mr. Bruce had a LGD for awhile.  He was a really good watch dog, but unfortunately his barking at the critters at night kept his poor wife awake most of the night.  Considering that she has to go to work early in the morning, her lack of sleep just didn't permit their keeping that dog.

I seem to recall that there are some guard dogs, such as ones that patrol the grounds of property like big mansions, that are trained not to bark should an intruder enter the grounds until they have killed or rendered harmless that intruder. I was thinking perhaps that there are LGDs that may be trained that way as well.  But I am grossly ignorant of LGDs (and most other working dogs, for that matter), so I was hoping others might suggest some ideas.  I hate to see Mr. Bruce lose any more livestock because he cannot have a barking LGD.

I understand your liking Mel's barking.  You know that when he barks, critters (both two legged and four legged) are going to pay attention.  It also gives your warning that something is around that maybe shouldn't be.  That bark is like a burglar alarm.  Alas, poor Mr. Bruce can't have such an alarm.  

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

B&B Happy goats said:


> Having Mel come into our lives has made me rethink my position....


And I gather that is how it is with most people. Hearing the dog bark gives them comfort that things are being taken care of. They know the "get the he11 away from my property" bark from the "Bad things happening!!!" bark. And they have learned to generally not even notice the first kind. DW couldn't manage that. I've heard that there are people who live near railroads and wake up when a train does NOT come through on schedule. Sleep like the dead otherwise.


----------



## Baymule

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Mr. @Bruce,
> 
> I'm about to show my ignorance yet again, but do you or does anyone else know if there are LGDs that don't bark, at least not much?  Any time a predator comes onto the property it would simply deal with the problem, and then perhaps bark to let you know that the predator had been dealt with?  I know you had problems with your previous dog barking and keeping your poor wife awake, but maybe there is a breed that doesn't bark that much but still would guard the place.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


LGD's bark to warn predators away. Any time a LGD engages with a predator, there will be bites and wounds. No predator wants to fight for a meal, as wounds can be debilitating, get infected, severely cut down on their chances of catching their next meal, and/or death to the predator. Properly warned, they will go find an easier meal. As far as dealing with the predator, the LGD could also be wounded. So the barking is music to the ears of those that know, truly_ know_ why and what it means. So I smile when Paris and Trip bark at garbage truck monsters, the neighbors who_ dare_ to walk around their own yard and talk, because I know when the chips are down, my dogs will come through.


----------



## Bruce

Since I've not lost any to a fox in the past 2 years since the fence went up, I ASSUME we just didn't have a fox around. This is late for fox attacks, when I've had them in the past it was late April.

I got some 2x4 fence Saturday and have been putting it up on the outside of the existing fence. Long slow process, I don't even have the west side finished yet. This fox is bold as brass. I put the tractor away about 5 PM today and went to get the chickens into the barn. Got most of them in, went out to gather the rest and that @#$%^ fox was trying to get one of the girls not 20' from the barn door. It ran off as I came out and it went the ~170' to the south fence and through to the road. That part is cattle panel so it has even bigger holes than the field fence. Perfect timing or I'd be down another hen. Thus the girls are now locked not only in the barn but in the coop since the fox could come in through the alpacas' door and at least 2 of the girls have no qualms about going out it in the morning before I open the barn.  I'm sure they will not be happy stuck in the coop without even the barn alley to hang out in. 

Adding to the lower egg count: 2 of the girls are broody, another was just broken of that a couple of days ago so hasn't started laying again yet and Mellori is laying such thin shelled eggs that they get broken under Angel who has claimed the left side of the community box and will collect any egg laid in the rest of it so she can 'hatch' them. I've ordered 9 chicks to come in about a week and am letting the broodies hog their nests in hopes that one of them will take the kids and raise them right. Of course they won't be producing until Nov or Dec, unless they decide to skip the winter as some of the young pullets have in the past, then it will likely be February.


----------



## Mike CHS

A Fox is a formidable foe with chickens so hopefully you can keep it out.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Is it a gray fox or a red one?.....they make a sound that sounds is similar to a squeeking door with rusty hinges....I got a couple of them in Mississippi.....


----------



## Baymule

I hope you can get the girls secured from the fox. In the meantime, they probably don't like you very much, how to explain to a chicken that jail is for their own good?


----------



## Bruce

I don't think they understand that I'm torturing them to keep them alive  Hopefully they won't start attacking each other due to "cabin fever". Probably not a big issue with chickens that are never let out of their coop, these girls get POed when they aren't allowed out of the 1 acre fenced area into the area around the house since it is what they are used to. But they were foraging around DW's flower beds (planted with bulbs last fall) and they've be confined to the (no so safe after all) fenced area. 

I ordered a Premier1 164' 48" electronet. I can make an outdoor run area for the girls and connect it to the hotwire on the fence for daytime use.


----------



## Bruce

I had the game camera set up near where the fox was trying to get another chicken dinner 2 nights ago. 
The chickens have been locked in the coop in the barn since then.

This is me taking the tractor and a roll of fence out to the work area this afternoon

 

This is me coming to let the girls out of the coop and the barn so they can forage while I'm out where the fox likely won't dare pass by ... and earlier than we've seen it. DW saw it from the kitchen window about 5:30 last night. It was out in the field closer to the woods probably hunting its NATURAL food. There are usually a lot of voles out there.
 

This is me going back to start working
 

This is me coming back because I remembered I hadn't unplugged the fence charger BEFORE I got zapped. Teddy provided the frame
 

And one of some of the chickens enjoying their "exercise period". The one in the front is Oreo, she is an Exchequer Leghorn.


----------



## greybeard

GIANT ALPACAS..GIANT CHICKENS.....*RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!!!*


----------



## Bruce

Oh you should run! Look at the size of this one!


----------



## greybeard

Or, it's a case of _Honey, the Kids Shrunk Me_

(Reminds me of the huge snails they frequently have everywhere in Hawaii..

GIANT SNAILS...WALK FOR YOUR LIVES!!)


----------



## Baymule

Escargot anyone?


----------



## Bruce

Last week while looking for signs of Yuki's demise, we spotted the big snapping turtle just outside the fence on the north side of the pond. I didn't see any way it could get to the inside. But today I was raking floating algae gunk out of the south end of the pond and in the shallows was a large snapping turtle. I spotted the shell as I lifted out some gunk. The shell wandered down the sloping ledge to deeper water. So either there is 1 adult snapper and it has a secret passage under the fence or there are two adults, one on each side of the fence.

Well now I have a conundrum. I rescued the two fish from certain death in the mud hole, kept them in the bucket in the house all winter. If I put them back in the pond at their current size I suspect they may become turtle food.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It wouldn't matter if they were full grown, they could still be a meal or snack for an array of wildlife....we had many in the pond and still caught fish....when they are small they can hide in many more places....I used to sink old tires in the pond for fish attractors....glad to hear your work is being rewarded with a blooming environment....


----------



## Bruce

You mean the algae blooming in the pond?  yeah, I hate that stuff. It is curious about the turtle(s). We have no idea where the "infant" one we saw in the pond as it started to fill in the fall came from. IF there are 2 adults and they can't cross over the fenceline, the one I saw in the pond today must have been hiding in the weeds around the pond all summer and we just never saw it. Wish now that I had spray painted a spot on the turtle we saw outside the fence so I would KNOW if it is the same one in the pond. We've also  seen 2 red salamanders in the pond since the dredging but never saw any before. 

Sure you were catching fish in the pond, you had LOTS of fish. I think maybe I'll stock some fathead minnows before I put the rescued fish back in, that will give the turtle something else to eat. Just seems a shame to go to the effort of saving those 2 fish for them to end up as turtle dinner.


----------



## Baymule

Is yours a common snapping turtle or an alligator snapping turtle? We have the alligator snapping turtle variety here.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Last week while looking for signs of Yuki's demise, we spotted the big snapping turtle just outside the fence on the north side of the pond. I didn't see any way it could get to the inside. But today I was raking floating algae gunk out of the south end of the pond and in the shallows was a large snapping turtle. I spotted the shell as I lifted out some gunk. The shell wandered down the sloping ledge to deeper water. So either there is 1 adult snapper and it has a secret passage under the fence or there are two adults, one on each side of the fence.
> 
> Well now I have a conundrum. I rescued the two fish from certain death in the mud hole, kept them in the bucket in the house all winter. If I put them back in the pond at their current size I suspect they may become turtle food.



I was once told that any fish that can't outrun (outswim)  a turtle deserves to  be eaten..

Been about a month ago I saw several turtles crossing the pasture to lay their eggs. They lay them, according the biologists..in holes they dig 'above the high water mark'....Yeah....good luck with that premise here.


----------



## Bruce

Regular snapping turtle. Yes I read they aren't real agile or fast in the water, so they lie in wait. 



greybeard said:


> They lay them, according the biologists..in holes they dig 'above the high water mark'....Yeah....good luck with that premise here.


Maybe you need to watch how high they lay their eggs in a given year and see if that isn't above the high water mark. Maybe they know something Mr. NOAA doesn't


----------



## rachels.haven

*finding snapping turtle eggs on the roof*


----------



## Bruce

Chicks arrived today ... while I was out. Prior emails said Wed by 3 PM. Well they were left outside the (locked) porch at 12:48, DD1 and I got home at 2:15. They don't seem worse for their experience, temp was about 65°F



The gray ones are Columbian Wyandottes, the yellow are White Rocks, the yellow with dark spots are Austra Whites, the dark chipmunk center front is the Barnevelder, the other chipmunks are EEs


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I'm  happy they were ok when you got home....that would not of had a good outcome if it happened here !


----------



## CntryBoy777

Looks like ya have "painted the face" of chicken math with some really Cute and Fluffy "peepers".........sure glad they were all Okay....sure don't need the temps to drop too low, that young....sounds like they are pretty hardy little sweeties.....


----------



## Bruce

So far so good. I have 2 broodies. Angel has hogged the N end of the community box and steals any egg laid in it by another hen. Anais has gone broody 2-3 times a year for the past 6 years and is parked in one of the open boxes. I'm pretty sure she is the one that played "auntie" when Zorra was raising the 2015's (Angel is one of those) and stuck with them for a month after Zorra unceremoniously dumped them at 2 months. I take both girls out of their nests each morning so they will eat, drink and poop. 

Yesterday I cleaned out all the stinky old shavings in the coop and put in 3 bales of new shavings as well as the brooder space (*). 

I have a plan, which means it will probably blow up in my face:
Tomorrow I'm going to see if Angel will accept being put in the brooder area after she heads back to her nest. When I tried that with Anais last year she went bat****. I tried 3 days running then gave up on her and put her in the buster. The chicks were "raised" by their Mama Heating Pad cave.

 If Angel can't take that move I'll let her have her community box nest for the day. I'm going to put the broody buster box against the north wall of the coop under the roosts (yes with a cover so poop won't rain down!) perpendicular to the official brooder area and put in shavings. At 0 dark thirty tomorrow night I'm going to stuff 4 chicks under Anais and 5 under Angel. After they wake in the morning to the miracle hatch of plastic eggs and have accepted the chicks, I'm going to move Anais to the buster and I ASSUME she'll be happy there with her babies. If Angel is still in the community box I'll move her and her chicks down to the brooder area. 

Fall back plan if one of the girls rejects the dark of night raid: I'll put them all under the other hen .... unless NEITHER accepts the chicks in which case the chicks will get their MHP cave in the brooder area and in the morning the broodies will start their week or longer "sentence" in the broody buster moved back to the "spare" coop in the next stall over.

Wish me luck! 

* 2 sides of a rectangle, 1/2" hardware cloth sides. It fits in the corner at the front of the coop.


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## CntryBoy777

I hope everything works out and they are Happy to raise them to the "routine".....nothing sweeter than to see the chicks around their momma.....


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## Bruce

Yep, loved seeing Zorra teach the 2015 girls the ins and outs of chickenhood. The 2012's (first chicks I ever had) had to learn everything for themselves. But, being chickens, they seemed to instinctively know what to do.


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## Baymule

I have EE's hatching out in the incubator, 17 so far. The previous batch was 17 hatched out.


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## Baymule

1 more this morning, total of 18 out of 26 eggs. I am happy with the results. Next year I think I'll order chicks, I've been considering Speckled Sussex, they are so pretty. Do you have any Speckled Sussex?


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## Bruce

Nope, no SS. Looking at the Meyer catalog I'm not sure why. They meet my criteria:
decent layers, large eggs, non broody, cold tolerant. 

Phase 1 complete. I sent Anais and Angel out for their forced morning constitutional. Good thing too, I noticed big 'ol broody poop later. I put Angel's 3 fake eggs down in the brooder area with the brooder food and water stand, added the food and water. She came back to her nest in the community box and was upset that her eggs weren't there. She came back out of the box all flustered, I grabbed her (she wasn't happy about that) and put her in the door to the brooder area. She saw her eggs, settled down and pulled them under her


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## SA Farm

I have had and now have SS again. As a heritage breed they do have a decent chance of broodiness. I had both my original girls go broody. We’ll see if my new batch does next spring.


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## Bruce

You mean the Meyer catalog could be wrong about broodiness? 
Well I know that IS possible. They say EEs are broody. I've never had an EE even hint at going broody and the last 6 I got were from them.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

OK, I am going to show my ignorance (again! ): what does a chicken do when she goes broody?  Does she sit and pout in the corner?  Does she cluck like crazy when you are late with the feeding?  Does she attack other chickens when they get too close to her?


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## Bruce

There are 2 kinds of broody hens that I know of. The ones that are actually incubating fertile eggs and the ones whose hormones tell them that they are supposed to park their butts in a nest until the shavings or fake eggs or golf balls hatch. Being I know you are an intelligent person, I know that you know that won't ever work. 

Now I've never had a hen that was incubating eggs but as I understand how it works:

The hen lays eggs for a period of time, could be 6, a dozen maybe more
She decides it is time to incubate said eggs and stops laying. 
She will park on the eggs for a few days straight
After they start developing she will get off the nest for a period of time each day (maybe 1/2 hour) to eat, drink, poop. 
The last 2-3 days before they hatch (21 days) she'll park her butt in the nest.
Eggs hatch, little chicks hang out under mama's wings.
Mama teaches them everything they need to know, protects them, calls them to food. I don't know if there is a general timeframe that this lasts but when I gave Zorra the 2015 chicks she was a Tasmanian Devil (the Warner Brothers type) if any of the other hens (with 2 exceptions) came within 5 feet of her babies. She's a big girl to start with but "grew" to twice her size when "necessary". 2 months later she laid an egg and forgot all about the chicks, even started chasing them away from food.

  Zorra and her week old babies in the brooder area of the coop. 

BTW, this is a great example of the lie that claims young chicks need an ambient temp of 95°F the first week, 90° the next, then 85° then 80°. The barn was never anywhere near 80°. 45°to 55° at night, 55° to 70° during the day. What they NEED is access to a "warming hut" when they get cold. Hens of course are the ultimate warming hut since they move to wherever the chicks are exploring. The next best thing is a Mama Heating Pad cave. The chicks learn that is where the warm is and will go back under whenever necessary. The least desirable (yes I AM biased) is a heat lamp in a small space where they never get away from the oppressive heat and 24 hour light. They cheep constantly day and night, cheeping is a complaint. Happy chicks chirp quietly and sleep at night. With a heat lamp they have no idea of a normal day/night cycle.

A broody hen (in my experience) that has nothing to hatch will:

lays eggs for a period of time, could be 6, a dozen maybe more. We people steal the eggs daily.

her hormones say "park on the nest and hatch whatever is there, even nothing.
they will NOT get off the nest for a daily constitutional, likely will growl and puff up when anything comes near.
if another hen lays in the nest (as with Angel in the 4' long community box) they will gather those eggs under them with whatever they already have ... or don't.
they will fuss when you reach under. I gather some can be quite vicious though I've been lucky.
If you take them out of the nest they will be kind of Mr. Hyde like. Running around all fluffed up, squawking their broody squawk. But once out they will eat, drink, poop. Broody poop, being backed up for a long time, is BIG and STINKY! Then they will go back to their nest.
They will sit in that nest for weeks and have the potential to do harm from lack of food and water.
Unless one has fertile eggs or fairly newly hatched chicks to give them, they should be broken.
Breaking a broody hen entails getting them elevated in a wire enclosure of some sort, I made one with 1/2" hardware cloth on all sides, top and bottom. No nest material. The idea is to keep them from staying warm underneath which breaks the hormone cycle. My buster box sits about 3' off the ground. 

Obviously it is easier to break them when the temperature is colder than in the heat of summer. How long it takes to break them depends a lot on how long they have been broody. If you catch them the first day and it is relatively cool, they might break in a day or two. Let them stay broody because you (wrongly) think it is cruel to break them and it will take a LOT longer. Generally they won't lay until 5+ days after they have been broken. Some people claim that you should dunk their breast in icy water and boom they will be broken. I don't think so. I once had a girl that had been parked for a couple of days. She thawed two refreezable ice packs in succession that I put under her and when I took the second one out (thawed) she was hot as a furnace underneath.


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## Bruce

Next phase of the chick plan complete. Anais was going to get 4 and we started with her as her nest is much easier to get to. I tried to put the first one in from the back. Anais pecked at me and the chick wasn't underneath so I tried to get it under the back of her wing and she went for me again. When I pulled my hand out she went for the chick. 

I doubt she had any idea what she was attacking. In any case, can't let her hurt the chick so we uncovered Angel's brooder area and successfully got all 9 chicks under. She fussed at me a little but didn't flare like Anais and settled. 

Now I'll have to check early in the morning to make sure Angel wakes up happy with her babies.
Then clean the shavings out of the broody buster and move it back to the "spare" coop stall then stick Anais in there. Second year she has failed to get chicks to raise.


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## Baymule

Now I am looking at Jubilee Orpingtons. At the price they want for chicks, I think I will break my usual routine and get prepared BEFORE  I get them. I know, I know, that just isn't me, but I do pop up with surprises from time to time.  I have plenty of chicks to keep me busy for this year, Jubilee Orpingtons will be a next spring project. I guess this means I have made up my mind to suck it up, pay the price, and get some.


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## Bruce

Any particular reason you want the Jubilee Orpingtons? And wow they are expensive. Meyer is $32.47 for straight run, $34.05 for females. Cackle is a bit cheaper, SR a lot cheaper at $11.95, Females $27.95. Price goes down $2 if you buy 5 or more. Minimum 3 SR or F, 1 Male.


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## Bruce

Looks like Angel is taking the chicks pretty well. I've seen as many as 7 at a time, not sure if I've seen all of them or not. She pecks at them a bit, not sure why but one of them pecked her beak and she didn't react at all. Those that I have seen have found the food and water. I took away her 3 'unhatched' eggs.

I moved the broody buster back to the other coop/stall but I need to take the waterer out of the house brooder box before I move Anais so she will have water in the buster.


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Any particular reason you want the Jubilee Orpingtons? And wow they are expensive. Meyer is $32.47 for straight run, $34.05 for females. Cackle is a bit cheaper, SR a lot cheaper at $11.95, Females $27.95. Price goes down $2 if you buy 5 or more. Minimum 3 SR or F, 1 Male.


I like the color. Orps are supposed to be a good dual purpose chicken, so if I'm going to get some, I might as well get the color I like. I know you can't eat color, but they sure are a feast for the eyes.


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## rachels.haven

Bruce said:


> Any particular reason you want the Jubilee Orpingtons? And wow they are expensive. Meyer is $32.47 for straight run, $34.05 for females. Cackle is a bit cheaper, SR a lot cheaper at $11.95, Females $27.95. Price goes down $2 if you buy 5 or more. Minimum 3 SR or F, 1 Male.



Yuck. Hatchery price for those breeds makes me wince. If you can find a breeder usually chicks are "only" $10-$20/straight run chick and they will be prettier, usually nicer temperament and broodier. The hitch is that you may get roosters and the hens don't lay well. (decorative orps, I learned the hard way, are decorative).


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## Bruce

I opened the door to the brooder area so Angel and the girls could come out. Didn't take Angel 10 seconds to pop out with 8 of her babies. Sadly the Barnevelder was not among them. I found her in the shavings. I don't know if Angel accidentally stepped on her or if she had unobvious issues or what. 

They spent about an hour out in the alley, I'd strung chicken wire across the run so the other hens couldn't get into the area. Angel did a lot of clucking and food finding (I tossed some in for them). She took a dust bath. A couple of times she flared and flapped mightily. Those chicks that didn't get blown away ran away. But they came right back.


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## Bruce

Angel and her 8 babies. Surprising that only one was moving.

 

And the entrance to their private suite, complete with food and water


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## CntryBoy777

How sweet!!......watchin them will sure put a smile on your face....in a short amount of time....


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## B&B Happy goats

Awww Bruce, you ARE a chick magnet  ..... they are sweet


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## Bruce

Actually I think I am a chick repeller. Those girls run. That is just the way it is with hen raised chicks.


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## mystang89

Too cute!


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## Bruce

Pictures of older hens. I'll start with the remaining 2012's, originally there were 12. 7 years old today.


 
Anais - Faverolles
She lays for a week or so, then goes broody. Usually does it 3 times a year.

 
Zorra - Black Australorp. She raised the 2015s. She lays sporadically

 
Yue - Ancona. She was laying really soft shelled eggs last year, hasn't been laying this year.

 
Persephone - EE Lots of the other girls, INCLUDING Anais, like to pluck muff and beard feathers. She looks a lot nicer after she moults. At least for a couple of months. She's still laying 2-3 blue-green eggs a week Spring til fall.


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## CntryBoy777

They are looking really well....and since there are 4 of them, they will be able to sit and chit-chat while playing "bridge"....while they wait for the younger ones to "chime in" on the egg being laid, so they can all cackle together....


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## Bruce

I guess they could! Persephone is the one hen I have that has no need to announce her egg. All business that girl, lay the egg, leave. I've got some that will sing the egg song when another hen is in a nest and hasn't even laid yet.


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## Baymule

That's pretty good Bruce, to have hens that old. They are a testament to your good care. 

You know me.....it's off with their heads by age 3. LOL LOL But I had a black sex link, named Robin, that was Queen of the Coop, had a bad attitude and put up with being lugged around by my grand daughter. She made the move with us and died a couple years ago at age 7. I even buried her in the garden and put a large flat rock over her grave.


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## Bruce

Hmmm, I wouldn't think "bad attitude" and getting carried around would go together. I guess she and your GD had a special bond.


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## Baymule

Robin put up with being lugged around, but she wasn't above getting in a peck or two.


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Angel and her 8 babies. Surprising that only one was moving.
> View attachment 63131
> 
> And the entrance to their private suite, complete with food and water
> View attachment 63132


Chicks!  
I have a Columbian Wyandotte as well and I saw that you too have an Ancona. 
My Columbian Wyandotte went broody. Not fertile eggs for her to hatch and I've been trying to break her but so far she kept going back in the nesting box. Most of the time she's not even sitting on "borrowed" eggs, just been sitting on her invisible eggs. I go in there and take her out of the nesting box every morning so she can go outside with the rest of the hens. She'd go out, get a drink, eat something then later I'd find her back in the nesting box. What other ways can I break her of being broody?


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## Baymule

RollingAcres said:


> Chicks!
> I have a Columbian Wyandotte as well and I saw that you too have an Ancona.
> My Columbian Wyandotte went broody. Not fertile eggs for her to hatch and I've been trying to break her but so far she kept going back in the nesting box. Most of the time she's not even sitting on "borrowed" eggs, just been sitting on her invisible eggs. I go in there and take her out of the nesting box every morning so she can go outside with the rest of the hens. She'd go out, get a drink, eat something then later I'd find her back in the nesting box. What other ways can I break her of being broody?


Give in and buy her some baby chicks.


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## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> Give in and buy her some baby chicks.


Nice try  but no thanks.


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## Bruce

You need a broody buster cage. I made mine out of scrap wood and 1/2" hardware cloth. All sides, top and bottom are hardware cloth. You need to elevate it and do not put any bedding material in. Mine is about 3' off the ground on a stand I made from scrap 2x4s. The concept is that you need to make it so they can't stay hot underneath. I've had several hens that would try to hatch shavings several times a year each.  If you don't break them, they'll keep going back to their nest pretty much forever as far as I can tell.

Sorry to hear your Columbian Wyandotte is a broody. I try to not order broody breeds and Meyer says they are "infrequently" broody.


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## Bruce

I forgot to mention that we saw the little turtle, deemed TINY TURTLE!! by DD1, in the pond the other day. It just happened to be really near the edge where we were looking for red salamanders, or maybe the big turtle. It doesn't look like it has grown much over the winter. But I suppose they must do some sort of hibernation so wouldn't be growing.


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## CntryBoy777

They will burrow in mud and being cold blooded they grow slower and can survive by slowing down their metabolism....that is why they bask in the sun...to digest and get warm oxygenated blood to the muscle to "run/swim" for their life at a moments notice....


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## Bruce

Now we'll have to find it in the fall and see how much it has grown. 

Going to the Farmer's Market tomorrow and if the bait store has any fathead minnows and/or golden shiners I'm going to pick some up for the pond.


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## Bruce

Got some fathead minnows and shiners for the pond today. They mostly headed for deep water as they were poured out of the cooler. I have no idea how they knew where the deeper water was. Don't know when we will see them again.

 

Nearby frog
 

Angel and her babies in the barn alley. I wonder when she'll take them outside. Pretty windy today, probably best to stay inside.


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## Bruce

Saw some of the minnows in the pond. I know it isn't a great picture, best I can do.
 

Angel took the kids out of the barn today so they have scratched in dirt (rather than old coop bedding), didn't have my camera with me.

The 4 remaining (of 7) 2015 girls. 
No separate picture of Angel (White Rock) without the "kids". 2 of the chicks are WR's.
 

Penelope - EE
 

Mellori - Black Australorp
 

Nuit - Black Australorp
 

And because he was there when I had the camera out. The pair are still really nervous when I'm around which I don't really understand. They are either the same birds as last year or one of them is a bird that fledged out of the nest in the barn. Really unlikely some random barn swallows would just happen to shoe up and build a nest in the exact same place. As such, I'd think they would have figured out by now that I mean them no harm. But they still fly off the nest when I come in and if I'm there when they fly in they get all whacked out.


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## Bruce

We saw the big snapping turtle today. I was doing evening animal chores, the alpacas were outside the north door looking at something, kind of nervous but not alerting. I kept looking in the distance and as usual couldn't see anything. Then I heard some noise near the fence and Laddie looked that direction. Looked to me like the turtle was trying to get through the 2x4 welded wire, having no luck. It was partially buried under the tall grass I had taken down with the string trimmer yesterday. I went to get DD1 since she's never seen it and REALLY wanted to but she and DW had gone to feed an ancient horse and a couple of cats. Rebekah is doing this Wed-Sunday, morning and evening all summer.

I got DD2 and we took a couple of pictures. Of course I STILL can't figure out how to transfer them from the phone to my computer so I'll add them from the phone after I post this. After I finished chores DD1 & DW happened to be just arriving home so we went to look at the turtle. It wasn't there but DD1 spotted it about 30' down the fence line so we went down to it. We watched as it buried itself in the massive quantity of grass, it was at least 5' tall when I whacked it. I don't know what it was doing that for but I sure hope it isn't still there the next time I go to whack (long before it is 5' again!) the grass, sure wouldn't want to step on it.

I also saw a shiner in the pond. I hope the rest of the fish are still alive and just hanging out in the deeper part. Haven't seen any evidence of them dying. Adam and Eve are still in the bucket in the house, guess it is time to set them free and hope for the best.


----------



## Bruce




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## Baymule

I'm glad that DD1 and DW got to see the turtle.


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## mystang89

Mmm, turtle soup!


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## Bruce

Zorra has gone broody. 3 days ago she was in the nest in the afternoon. At roost time she was still in the nest, I put her on the roost in the dark. Come morning, she was back in the box so she got a free ride to the broody buster. She was not fussy this morning so I let her out, hoped that since I caught her with less than a day of nest time, she would break quick. She headed straight for the (now occupied) box. Another free trip to the BB. Typical pattern for her, lay eggs for a few weeks, then go broody. So at the moment I'm down 3 layers. Angel has the babies and Anais is playing Auntie again.

I saw some baby faces sticking out over the edge of the barn swallows' nest today.


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## Genipher

Bruce said:


> Saw some of the minnows in the pond. I know it isn't a great picture, best I can do.
> View attachment 63317
> 
> Angel took the kids out of the barn today so they have scratched in dirt (rather than old coop bedding), didn't have my camera with me.
> 
> The 4 remaining (of 7) 2015 girls.
> No separate picture of Angel (White Rock) without the "kids". 2 of the chicks are WR's.
> View attachment 63320
> 
> Penelope - EE
> View attachment 63321
> 
> Mellori - Black Australorp
> View attachment 63322
> 
> Nuit - Black Australorp
> View attachment 63323
> 
> And because he was there when I had the camera out. The pair are still really nervous when I'm around which I don't really understand. They are either the same birds as last year or one of them is a bird that fledged out of the nest in the barn. Really unlikely some random barn swallows would just happen to shoe up and build a nest in the exact same place. As such, I'd think they would have figured out by now that I mean them no harm. But they still fly off the nest when I come in and if I'm there when they fly in they get all whacked out.
> View attachment 63324



Such pretty chickens!


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## Bruce

The 5 remaining 2017 girls, originally there were 6
Trill - Barnevelder

 

Cassiopeia - EE
 

Mint - Exchequer Leghorn
 

Oreo - Exchequer Leghorn, she looked a lot like Mint until she moulted last fall.
 

Veronica - Welsummer (That would be part of Betty in the front, but she'll have to wait until the 2018's are posted)


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## Baymule

I have a wellsummer hen, I like her dark brown speckled eggs. She is with an EE rooster, along with  a few EE hens and a cream legbar hen. I've hatched out 35 chicks, hope I have some olive egger pullets in the batch from the wellsummer hen.


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## MiniGoatsRule

Alpacas can be sweet, but weird as crud...


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## CntryBoy777

They All look really GOOD!!.....course, I don't have any "eye" for the fine points....but, I sure like em.....ya sure have a pretty "palatte" walking around outside.....except on "snow days".....


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## Bruce

Yeah on snow days (ie all winter) they choose to hang in the barn alley.



MiniGoatsRule said:


> Alpacas can be sweet, but weird as crud...


These 2 are weird. We got them from people up the road 2.5 years ago, they were fixing to move to Florida. I don't think they handled the boys much and one of them was born at their place. They will eat maintenance pellets from my hand (that took some time!) but touch them? NO WAY, look at them straight on and they spook. I guess the only time they were touched was when it was shearing time, hoof time, Ivermectin time.


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> The 5 remaining 2017 girls, originally there were 6
> Trill - Barnevelder
> View attachment 63652
> 
> Cassiopeia - EE
> View attachment 63653
> 
> Mint - Exchequer Leghorn
> View attachment 63656
> 
> Oreo - Exchequer Leghorn, she looked a lot like Mint until she moulted last fall.
> View attachment 63654
> 
> Veronica - Welsummer (That would be part of Betty in the front, but she'll have to wait until the 2018's are posted)
> View attachment 63655


They are very pretty!
And good news! My Colombian Wyandotte is no longer broody(for almost a week now)!!! However, she's still not laying yet.


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## Bruce

She should start soon, I find 5-7 days is pretty usual. 

So today, not only is Zorra still in the broody buster, Betty (year old Welsummer) has decided to hang in the nest box. I put her up on the roost tonight but I'll give better than even odds she will be joining Zorra in the morning  

Thus of 16 adults, 2 are broody, 2 are raising chicks, 2 (one 4 and one 7 Y/O) are laying very thin shelled eggs that break when another hen gets in the box. Plenty of oyster shell available, must be their shell glands are giving out.

Found a dead shiner in the pond today. Don't know why it died, plenty fat, no obvious damage. Recently dead, no decomposition at all. I threw it to the chickens inside the electronet.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Found a dead shiner in the pond today. Don't know why it died, plenty fat, no obvious damage. Recently dead, no decomposition at all.







Most common cause of dead fish with no apparent cause of death is water quality and/or water temperature. Algae bloom, being the usual cause of poor water quality mid to late summer. Life forms simply suffocate, with the weakest being the first to belly up.


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## Bruce

Well then these fish have a problem because there is no water flowing through the pond. The fish that were there before it dried last summer managed to live with a lot less water than what is in the pond now.


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## Bruce

Last night Angel decided to take the girls into the 4' long covered community nest box (her favored nest for laying). It is nearly as big as the brooding area but no food or water. She likely moved them due in part to the fact that since she can't get out the little opening into the coop, she was tired of being the only chicken in the brooder area in the morning. Zorra did the same thing when the 2015s were a few weeks old. Except she took them to her favorite nest which is about 14" square. Not a lot of room for a big hen and growing kids.

I'm thinking one of the Columbian Wyandottes is a little roo. Nearly 4 weeks old, all the others have substantial tails, all wing feathers and feathers on their backs, still fuzz on their heads. This one has a stubbly little bit of tail, shoulder feathers not in yet and not a single feather on its back, all fuzz. So while I was expecting 7 new layers, with the Barnevelder kicking off (for whatever reason) and in all likelihood one of the others being a roo, I'm down to 5 new future layers.


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## Bruce

I talked to Al about hay for the winter earlier this week. Told him I prefer 30 small squares but if he's only doing rounds, that will be OK. He is nearing 70 after all and picking up bales is work, pickup up rounds is not. Of course he's still stronger than I am. He said he had about that much ready to cut in one of the fields and was planning to do it this weekend. 

He called about 7:30 tonight, said he cut and baled today since it is supposed to rain this weekend and it's on the trailer. Of course it was a "comfy" 85°and humid today! (*). Well I know Al and I know "it's on the trailer" means "I want to bring it over now". He did the same thing with cordwood. OK then, into overdrive we go. Had to move what is left of the last round bale and get the remaining 4 squares from 2017 out of the alpacas' stall to have room on the pallets for the 34 bales. That is what he made and that is what he delivered, only charged for 30 at $3.75 each. 1st cut.

* Y'all can have that back by the way.


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## Baymule

Delivered hay at $3.75? The cheapest I ever found was $4 in the field and it was just so-so hay.


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## Mike CHS

I can get square bales from Jay's Grandpa for $2 but the sheep won't eat it so it's not a good deal.  We bought 8 large round bales for $30 a bale and he is storing them for us under cover till I come pick start needing them.


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## Bruce

How is the hay in the round bales different from that in the squares Mike? I don't care as much for the rounds since I have to strip it out handful by handful because if I put in a "sheet" of hay in the wall feeders, the whole thing gets pulled out and most of it dropped on the floor. 

Al only lives 1/2 mile up the road. Once the hay is on the trailer in the field, he wants it gone. Definitely doesn't want to unload it into his barn for later pickup. The people that live across the road have 3 horses, 2 alpacas. They take their pickup out to the field and collect their hay. I think they get something like 250 bales a year. I don't know if Al charges them less per bale but I assume so since he doesn't have to touch them.


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## greybeard

I've bought small square hay for $3 in the field, fertilized bahia/coastal mix. The same hay stored in their barn would have been nearly $7/ea.
Seems like a lifetime ago now but was only 10 years back.
Same bales now are around $12/bale from the barn..$14-15 at the nearest feedstore out of an 18 wheeler box truck.

I'm paying locally, about $85/ton for 10+% protein grass hay this year which is less than the average. If the rain doesn't stop, these prices will all seem like a bargain the closer to the end of hay season we get.







I don't buy any alfalfa but here's the current graphic for that:


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## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> How is the hay in the round bales different from that in the squares



The round bales are from a different farm.  Our sheep won't eat the round bales from Jay's place either.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce, can you put a aerator  in your pond ?


----------



## Bruce

I don't know. What would keep it from sucking up muck? And how many does one need for a pond that size? It isn't a little 100 sq ft Koi pond.


----------



## farmerjan

Get one of those "sprinkler type" things that makes like a fountain. I think they float.   It will stir the water, which will add back some O 2.  Don't forget, the minnows/shiners that you got were from temp controlled and O 2 controlled water in some hatchery/fish farm type place.  Probably never saw mud and such.  They are meant to be bait, and most not to last any amount of time.  So one dead does not surprise me nor should it be of very much concern.   Like the "left over" broiler cornish x I get.  I am happy if 50-60% of what I pick up make it past 2 weeks.  Those are the ones that will survive and eat and grow.  The others are just as well off croaking so I am not throwing away feed on them.  Heartless???? well, they were going to be killed off by the farmer the next day anyway, so at least at my place they get a chance.


----------



## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> Heartless???? well, they were going to be killed off by the farmer the next day anyway, so at least at my place they get a chance.



Haha, you just reminded me of CC a rooster I injured while slaughtering. He was HUGE, dressed out at over 7 pounds. While handling him, I broke his wing, a bad break, I felt terrible for him. I'm holding him, apologizing to him while my husband watched.....then eased him into the killing cone, still apologizing to him as I cut his throat. DH asked why I was so concerned if I was going to kill him anyway. I told him that I didn't want to cause any pain or stress to the poor chickens. I feel bad enough killing them without causing any extra pain.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce farmerjans idea is great, you can also use a weight to hold it down so it stays in the deepest  part of the pond...plus they look kinda cool to look at while circulating the water and adding oxygen to the pond...


----------



## Bruce

How does one get electricity to a floating "sprinkler"?

Wnet to close up the coop and barn tonight. I always count chickens to make sure they are in the predator safe coop before I close the door. I counted 1 extra chicken tonight, one of the White Rock littles was up on the 4' high roost next to her Auntie Anais. 4 weeks tomorrow which in my previous experiences is about when they start roosting. I won't be surprised if there is 1 or more new ones tomorrow or the next night.


----------



## farmerjan

Find someplace that specializes in water gardens.  They can tell you all you want / need to know about that stuff. Don't know if there would be many up your way.  One of our "nurseries"  you know the plants/trees kind of nurseries, also has alot of stuff for water "accents" for your yard.  With as much cold as you get up there you might not be able to find much, but maybe someone knowledgeable at a plant nursery could steer you in the right direction. 
I have also seen a "windmill" type thing that will catch the wind and causes the water to circulate.


----------



## Ridgetop

Baymule said:


> While handling him, I broke his wing, a bad break, I felt terrible for him. I'm holding him, apologizing to him while my husband watched.....then eased him into the killing cone, still apologizing to him as I cut his throat. DH asked why I was so concerned if I was going to kill him anyway. I told him that I didn't want to cause any pain or stress to the poor chickens. I feel bad enough killing them without causing any extra pain.



I know what you mean.  Just because we are going to kill and eat them doesn't mean we want it to hurt any more than necessary.  I like to do it quick and as painlessly as possible.  On rabbit butchering day we never ate meat.  That was mac and cheese night!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

Here is a review of 5 aerators, including a solar powered one:
https://pondacademy.com/pond-aerator

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

Thanks for the link STA! I was hoping the solar one would be OK but it is for really small ponds. I'm not sure I would even call 50 gallons a pond. Funny that $$ is $50 and $$$$ is $700. I do like the idea of the floating one, won't suck muck up off the bottom. Not sure what the wildlife would think about a fountain. Of course that is one of the $700 options.


----------



## Bruce

3 nieces up on the 4' roost with Tante Anais tonight.


----------



## Bruce

4 nieces up on the roost tonight. Both White Rocks, 1 Austra White and one EE. Bets on how many are up tomorrow? It's going to get hot, not quite FL or TX hot but crossing over 90°F which is way hot here.


----------



## CntryBoy777

That has to be tough on ya and the animals too....try to stay as cool as ya can!!....hope it doesn't last long.........I believe ya will have 100% up there....


----------



## Mike CHS

We hit 95 degrees again today here but we almost always have a good bit of wind which lightens it up a bit.


----------



## Baymule

We've been having spotty showers, if we don't get the rain, we get the cooling breeze. Temps are in the high 80's.


----------



## Bruce

No chance of rain the next few days and sadly not much for breeze either. Though somehow there is often a slight breeze blowing between the barns and if I open both the north and south doors down below, a slight breeze through there as well. I think DW said the pool was 82° today.

Checked in on the barn swallows, I'm guessing they will fledge in the next day or two. 

Since there won't be much wind maybe I should burn the stuff in the pit. I'm considering hauling the old chicken wire and wood fence from the heap where I dropped it over to the pit as well. It would take hours to pull all the staples out of the posts and other "supporting" wood. If I burn the wood I can just scrunch up the remaining chicken wire into a smaller heap and add it to the scrap metal pile. Gotta get rid of that soon.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya gonna run a magnet thru the area ya burn it in, for the staples?.....would hate for ya to damage a tire running over them.....


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> It's going to get hot, not quite FL or TX hot but *crossing over 90°F which is way hot here*.


Totally agree!!! Y'all from TX or FL, please take this HOT weather back. We don't want it.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Ya gonna run a magnet thru the area ya burn it in, for the staples?.....would hate for ya to damage a tire running over them.....


I'm not likely to drive into the burn pit, it is ringed with rock 

Though after it is burned I guess I could get the wheeled bar magnet thing out and run it through the ashes. It would be best to not have them in there in case I decide to use some ash in the compost bins or garden. These aren't fence staples they are inch or so long thin staples. The guy used a ton of them to attach the chicken wire to the wood.


----------



## Bruce

Only 3 up last night, I had to "ask" Vienna to move over a bit so the 3rd very determined chick had room. Of course that elicited a fair bit of rearranging of the older girls.

For some reason the stupid alpacas have decided they should poop inside at night. Which makes no sense since I know they go outside, heard Teddy alerting on something again last night.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> For some reason the stupid alpacas have decided they should poop inside at night. Which makes no sense since I know they go outside, heard Teddy


Maybe that something "scared the sh*+" out of one of them so they poop inside


----------



## CntryBoy777

Yeh, and when ya gotta Go....ya Gotta GO!!....no matter where ya are....


----------



## Bruce

You saying I should pee in the bed rather than getting up and walking to the bathroom? Outside is only 15' for those boys, the current location of their pile is about twice that.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

@Bruce....just breaking news, biggest earthquake in 20 years rocks South California,  6.4 magnitude....Ridgecrest area


----------



## Bruce

Probably felt at @Ridgetop's, likely at @ragdollcatlady's as well. I don't think there were any nearly that big while I lived just south of L.A. the first 23 years of my life. Dad and older sister live 120ish miles south so they probably felt it too but likely not much magnitude.

Hope all is OK for our friends and families.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Probably felt at @Ridgetop's, likely at @ragdollcatlady's as well. I don't think there were any nearly that big while I lived just south of L.A. the first 23 years of my life. Dad and older sister live 120ish miles south so they probably felt it too but likely not much magnitude.
> 
> Hope all is OK for our friends and families.


News is saying they are expecting another shortly, they have been getting the aftershocks....
Sure hope everyone  is o.k., glad your family is some distance away....they said it was more than 5 miles into the earth....  yikes!!!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

RollingAcres said:


> Totally agree!!! Y'all from TX or FL, please take this HOT weather back. We don't want it.



Nope...we love to share with yall


----------



## Baymule

B&B Happy goats said:


> Nope...we love to share with yall


x2 We are friendly people and like to share with our friends.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> You saying I should pee in the bed rather than getting up and walking to the bathroom? Outside is only 15' for those boys, the current location of their pile is about twice that.


Whatever makes you happy @Bruce . If you want to pee in bed rather than getting up to go, then pee in bed. It's your bed.


----------



## RollingAcres

B&B Happy goats said:


> Nope...we love to share with yall





Baymule said:


> x2 We are friendly people and like to share with our friends.



That's very nice of y'all but really, you don't have to share this time.


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Whatever makes you happy @Bruce . If you want to pee in bed rather than getting up to go, then pee in bed. It's your bed.


Well since it is also DW's bed, I guess I better get up if I need to. Stupid alpacas pooped in their area again last night. They do it RIGHT under the wall hay feeders. Now if one was going to poop in their living space, wouldn't it be more wise to do it other than right where you eat?



RollingAcres said:


> That's very nice of y'all but really, you don't have to share this time.


I think they really want to so they did. Supposed to be 90° today, too hot for us! 
Only 2 littles up with Anais last night but there was one on the plywood that covers the end of the brooder area straight below and 2 in the opening to the nest box. 

The Barn swallow fledged sometime between 8 PM last night and 8 AM this morning. The three of them were on a wire in the barn, Mom and Dad kept coming in and getting all worked up that I was there doing chores. If it works similarly to last year, the littles will hang around the barn for a couple of days. I don't see the dozens of fledged swallows on the telephone lines like I did last year. Maybe these are the first to fledge this year.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> I think they really want to so they did. Supposed to be 90° today, too hot for us!


I went out to get some more fly spray for the cows, it's so hot out I thought I melted!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Supposed to be 90° today, too hot for us!



Dang, Mr. @Bruce, that's only 2 degrees cooler than it is here!  I am glad I didn't move up there thinking we'd be getting away from the heat when we retired last year!

And I bet, Miss @RollingAcres, that the weather you are having reminds you of Louisiana when you were going to school there!  I hope you don't have the mosquitoes as badly!


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Dang, Mr. @Bruce, that's only 2 degrees cooler than it is here! I am glad I didn't move up there thinking we'd be getting away from the heat when we retired last year!


We don't spend all summer with those temps though! More than we did 40 years ago though. Way back it seemed to hit 90° only once or twice a year. Lately its been many more times each year but on the whole, a lot cooler than the south.


----------



## Baymule

Our rain and spotty showers are going away and it's going to be hot all this coming week. I go out to do something and I'm soaking wet in no time.


----------



## Bruce

Does this little 4 week, 2 day old chick scream ROO or what? He is showing some pin feathers on his back today.

 
This is the other Columbian Wyandotte chick


----------



## SA Farm

Thick legs, upright stance, cocky expression...I’d guess roo, but give it a few more weeks to be sure


----------



## Baymule

Is he the first one to feed, aggressive eater and does he eat more than the others? That is the first indication of a roo. Watch him and see, it takes awhile for rooster feathers to show up.


----------



## farmerjan

The color in the wing feathers and the pointed ends to the new neck feathers most likely indicate it is a cockerel.  Neither has much of a comb but that is more typical of a wyandotte due to the rose comb that follows the head and does not have a spike that stands straight out. 
Did you get straight run or pullets?  Even with sexing, there are mistakes made.


----------



## Bruce

I don't know that he is more aggressive than the others. It is quite a show when 8 chicks and 16 hens all come racing out of the coop in the morning. They all dive for the BOSS and whatever kitchen scraps are out for them.

Ordered pullets and yep they to make mistakes. Got a Barnevelder cockerel 2 years ago. Meyer guarantees 90% so I'll get my money back since I ordered 9 chicks. Unfortunately the money is all you get back, the unwanted roo/one less layer is on the buyer. 

I don't expect to see any rooster feathers for some time. Trouble (the Barnevelder roo) was CLEARLY a roo at 3 weeks. But you have to wait until they are at least 11 weeks to claim the error. Similar to this one, Trouble had no back or shoulder feathers when all the girls, including Trill (the other Barnevelder) were pretty much feathered out and his tail, like this one, was only a stub for quite a while.


----------



## Bruce

Today:
The Plan: DD1, DW and I do alpaca nails, hand shear/scissor Teddy
Actual: 

Friend called about 11 AM, just as we were about to go out to execute the plan. Said they were in the area. Gave them the address and they showed up about half an hour later. We visited for some time, showed them around.
On to the plan ... oops the boys aren't in the barn any more. Plan B, change the oil in DW's car
Execute Plan B, while the oil drained I took apart the small shop vac and oiled the motor, it was sounding bad. Put that back together, finished Plan B
Alpacas back in the barn so back to "The Plan". I snuck around the back of the barn and closed the boys in. If they spook, they are near impossible to get back into the barn.
Got Teddy's halter on, not too bad. Laddie fought it some but was trapped in the alley to their door so got his on too.
Did Laddie's nails. Of course he fought the whole way but didn't kick
Did Teddy's nails, he fought some but not near as much. 
Used hand shears and Fiskars scissors to shear Teddy. He is actually pretty good once he is up on the stand. 
Pretty well beat! DD1 noticed an odd thing on Teddy's back leg, way down just above the ankle, as she was cutting hair. From the look and feel of it, at some point he cut his leg about 1.5" long and it healed with the skin adhering to the exposed bone?? Is this possible? It wasn't tender at all, clearly whatever happened happened a long time back. We don't remember seeing it when we sheared him last year though. Is this something I should worry about?


----------



## RollingAcres

Glad you were able to complete both plans.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It does sound like things progress some between handlings, and not kicking is an added Plus for sure!!....if it already looks healed and closed, with no sign of infection...I'd think it'd be okay....but just monitor it some...as best ya can....


----------



## Bruce

That is the weird thing, it ISN'T closed. It is like the skin adhered to the exposed bone.


----------



## rachels.haven

That is weird! Are you going to get it closed somehow?


----------



## Bruce

I don't think it is possible, there was no soft fleshy edge on the skin. It clearly isn't new. 

Got out the tractor today to pull a really large rock that was in the way of my compost bin set that I am building. Then went and pulled out the really large rock I was trying to remove when the hoses blew the last time. Both rocks are now on the rock pile on the north side of the barn. 

Since I had the tractor out I used it to gather up old rotting fencing from 2 places in the fenced area so I can use my flail mower when the final part arrives. Put that stuff on the burn pit. Now I REALLY need to light it 

I guess the fish in the pond aren't TOO unhappy. Yesterday and today I saw a dozen or so TINY fish, maybe 1/4".


----------



## Baymule

I'm glad you got the shearing and toenail clipping done. Sounds like you had a pretty good day.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Now I REALLY need to light it


Bonfire party at Bruce's!


----------



## Baymule

RollingAcres said:


> Bonfire party at Bruce's!


I'll bring the marshmallows!


----------



## RollingAcres

I'll bring the chocolate!


----------



## farmerjan

All right,who is going to bring the graham crackers?????


----------



## Bruce

And the hot dogs! Ready to light it, just called the fire department for the permit


----------



## RollingAcres

farmerjan said:


> All right,who is going to bring the graham crackers?????


You are!


----------



## Bruce

OK, let's get started



I hope you brought your 20 foot skewers for the hot dogs and marshmallows





Still plenty of heat from 5' out


Getting done, I should be able to pull out all the old chicken wire when it cools down, supposed to rain tomorrow so maybe I'll gather it up on Friday. And then, as @CntryBoy777 suggested, run the manet through the ashes to pick up all the million thin staple nail things that had been used to attach the wire to the wood.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We are fixing to make a few piles around here, real soon....ourselves....things may work out so I can get some posts....but, have few areas to clear to make room for the fence....


----------



## Bruce

Gabbie will love you for it


----------



## Bruce

4 chicks up on the roost tonight. One trying to get comfy on Anais


----------



## Bruce

Only 1 chick on the roost with Anais tonight. Those birds sure aren't predictable.

Dug out a very large rock imitating an iceberg just outside the electronet. There was enough sticking out that I would hit it with the garden tractor so I had it marked and drove around it. But I should have all the things I need to use the new flail mower by Sat afternoon and missing that rock would be quite a bit harder.

Used the string trimmer to cut the grass down so I could move the birds' electronet and found that we are down 1 adult snapping turtle. I had noticed a smell about a week ago that made me think something had died over in the area of the currants and gooseberry bush. Thought maybe a rabbit had been wounded and crawled off to die. But when I moved the electronet there was a turtle shell and the tail bones. It was between the electronet and the cattle panel permanent fence. The only thing I can think of is that it went under the electronet from the pond, then under again and got stuck at the cattle panel fence. The creatures that clean up such things did a mighty fine job, the shell was picked clean, there was no evidence of the turtle's body.


----------



## rachels.haven

Thumbs up for fighting iceberg rocks. You never know how much is hiding under the surface.


----------



## Bruce

Finally have everything I need to use the new flail, got the last part today. So I took off the backhoe, first time I've done that. Wasn't too hard, just followed the directions in the manual. Lining up to put it back on will likely be a LOT of fun, maybe I'll need to have someone help and say "C'mon back, more more, more STOP!"

And I put on the 3 point parts, obviously the first time for that as well since they can't be there when the backhoe is on. Fortunately I noticed that 2 pins that hold the stabilizer bars to the lower link arms were missing their hairpin clips. What fun it would be to be mowing away, hit a bump and have the stabilizer start swinging around! Went to Ace hardware and picked up 2 at $0.37 each. And a tarp to cover the backhoe.

After lunch I'll go out and hopefully have no trouble connecting the quick hitch to the flail and getting it out of it's metal frame shipping crate. Then I have to find somewhere flat & level , fill the gearbox with oil and set up the machine to mow. By the time I get all that figured out, it might be dinner time


----------



## CntryBoy777

When ya drop an implement, put something at the rear tire....that way when ya go to reconnect, ya just backup til the tire hits the marker that was left....I always used a concrete block or concrete slab they use on propane tanks....but have used a chunk of wood....don't use round logs, they will roll and lose your "spot"....


----------



## Bruce

Too late!!! Why weren't you here helping so you could make that suggestion earlier?  I think I'd need a side rail to run against as well, there is VERY little leeway for the side to side connection.


----------



## CntryBoy777

If the angle is critical....use a board long enough so both tires can touch it....this way, when both tires hit at the same time...the angle is correct....


----------



## Bruce

I'll have to set that up the next time.

Got the 3 point parts put on and the quick hitch. Got the mower on the quick hitch then had to take out one vertical on the shipping crate so I could pull the mower out. Drove it over to a sort of level area and filled the gearbox with oil. 

I'm "borrowing" the curl/dump functions of the loader for the side shift feature. All of the hoses for the loader at the "manifold" are male so I put 2 female fittings on the ends of the pair of 7' hoses the dealer had made up and have them in a common "sleeve". 50% chance I got the right one connected to the "lever left, mower left" motion. 100% I got it wrong. Moved the lever right, mower shifted left. And it didn't want to come back to the right. The dealer had given (sold) me 2 adapters to get the thread size on the mower to the size Mahindra uses. One of them is faulty, it leaks. Not bad enough to keep the mower from shifting I don't think but who knows. Disconnected the hydraulic hoses, I'm going to see if they have those adapters at Advance Auto tomorrow. If not I'll have to see if the dealer can get me another one. 

Got the PTO shaft connected, kinda hard to see with the guard in the way but eventually I got it connected to the PTO on the tractor. It is the "Push the pin" type connector. The other end is similar but has a special partially threaded headless bolt and a nut. The guard was off on that end so at least I could see when things were lining up. 

Lowered the roller and skids for max height cut (4"). They have changed something without changing the pictures in the manual. Apparently the prior model had the roller and skids adjusted separately, now there are 2 bolts and nuts on each side of the mower and the roller is connected to the skids. 

I messed around some with the 3 point raise/lower lever and set the "lowering" stop when the mower got to the ground. Didn't have much time but I took a short pass in the field, I think I need to adjust the top link so the mower tilts back just a bit, I managed to dig the skids in a couple of times. I might also need to adjust the right side lift link for side to side "level". It cut pretty well, didn't mulch it all that much but given the vegetation is somewhere north of 3' high, I'm not surprised. It didn't leave any uncut stuff though and the area in front of the barn that had been mowed with the garden tractor cut nicely.


----------



## Bruce

Angel laid an egg today but she's still hanging with the kids along with Anais. Tonight she was on the back roost with one baby. First time she's been on the roost since she went broody back in May. Anais was in her normal spot all the way left on the north side roost. She had the other 7. Don't know if they prefer her or just went there because it is easy for them to get to from the top of the brooder and they don't have to compete with the other adults, some of whom (especially Penelope) can get kind of nasty with new birds on the roost. Will see what tomorrow night brings.


----------



## Baymule

You are enjoying your tractor so much. I like reading about your tractor adventures.


----------



## Bruce

Yesterday I mowed the fenced in area. Big surprise to no one, a compact tractor with loader and flail is NOT a Z turn! Way too many corners and stuff to go around, especially with the addition of the electronet enclosure. I think maybe I'll do only the more open areas with the tractor and use the garden tractor for the "close in" parts. I just need to get on it early before the stuff grows too much and then keep on it. Now way the GT could have mowed what was out there.

Today I mowed most of the outer fields. Nice weather for it, 75°, clouds moving in and out, with a breeze. Kinda slow going since the stuff was anywhere from 3' to 5' high and hiding everything in front of me and even "sorta flat" is not descriptive of the land. I found (and avoided) rocks I knew about and others I didn't. Yep, kept my hand on the 3 PT lever at all times, hopefully didn't dull the knives too much. Some of what is left I KNOW has some exposed ledge and some drop offs so next time I mow I need to be super careful. From the weather report I guess that means tomorrow - hotter than today, about 80° but nothing like the heat index of 95° on Friday 

Odd thing about the stop for that 3 PT lever. It likes to move forward which in turn means pushing the lever down to the stop equals dropping the front of the mower lower than I want. So the knob is loose right? NO!!!! It is so tight I can barely get it loose to move it back where it started. In fact it would be helpful to have a T or star knob instead of a small round one. I have no idea how this happens but it is a PITA.


----------



## Bruce

Chicken update. Last night Anais had 4 chicks and Angel had 4. Today Angel wanted nothing to do with them and was pecking them when they tried to get near her on the roost. Good thing Anais really likes "babysitting" because she's #1 now. Took forever for all eight to get near her on the roost tonight. I had to play rooster and "peck" some of the other hens that pecked at the chicks if they even got near in their attempt to find a way to Angel (BIG mistake) or Anais. Eventually there were 4 on either side of Anais but these kids need to learn the ropes pretty fast now that Angel wants nothing to do with them.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Too bad ya can't grind the rocks down, so they wouldn't be an issue....but, I'd have to find a way to "mark" them in some fashion....even an old car tire placed on top...landscaping flags might work....


----------



## Mike CHS

As you know I can relate to your ledge rock. I use my Cub Cadet to mow around the ledge that circles our place and the tractor for most of the rest that needs cutting.  The mower lets me get close to the rocks.  I haven't been doing a lot of cutting but I have knocked the tops off of some of the woody grasses.


----------



## Bruce

Previously found rocks have been marked with old ski poles "kindly" left under the drive bay by the prior owners. I definitely need to mark the "outcroppings", I've seen them before after Al mowed so I KINDA know where they are. Also need to see if some of the previously known rocks are of a size I can get out with the backhoe and forks. Didn't have that ability before. But there are some ledge areas that are just going to stay. I'm thinking of partitioning them off in some fashion and maybe planting flowers that bees and butterflies like. Then I won't have to mess with them so much in the future.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir,

I would like to know what your impressions are of the flail mower after a couple of uses.  I somehow got the impression that flail mowers were rather fragile, almost like a sickle mower, but then I saw a YouTube video (I think on GP outdoors) where the flail mower was used to cut tougher stuff than grass.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> You are enjoying your tractor so much. I like reading about your tractor adventures.


You are in luck!!!!

STA pass the Zinger™ award

This morning I had the brilliant thought that there is no reason the reducer has to swivel, in fact that serves no purpose with a quick connect fitting screwed to it and is just a potential (and real on that one) fail area. So I went out to the mower to again remove the reducer to go back to Avance Auto. Now I know what that loud clunk was that I heard yesterday, the entire male fitting was sheared off (or pulled out of??) the end of the hose, only the crimp band remained. I guess I didn't have the hoses up as well as I thought though the other was still safely where I put it.

The saga continues. I Googled and found a truck repair place that makes hydraulic hoses. I went there, he cut the end of the hose to see what kind it was (would be needed regardless) and found that he didn't have a male threaded fitting that would work with the Gates connector nor did he have an adapter that would work with the hose fitting he did have. He sent me to the CAT repair place. They can only work with CAT hoses, they have a special crimper that they have to enter the hose part number and the machine applies the proper force in the proper places. They sent me to another truck repair place. He likely had that fitting but he won't crimp fittings on "used" hose even though this one had never been used under pressure, liability if it fails (seems like he would have the same liability issues with a hose he makes himself). He could make a new hose but doesn't have and likely can't get the 13mm banjo connector but could do something with a 90° if he had one that matched the banjo bolt thread (I hadn't brought that part) for about $60.

I sent an email to the WoodMaxx service guy to see what it would cost to get a replacement hose 
I'm sure the shift feature will be worth it, eventually 

Got a reply from the WoodMaxx sales guy. He has "decided" that the crimps on the hoses failed, no fault of mine and is going to send 2 new ones (though I only need the one). I guess sometimes being nice DOES pay off. I was very patient with the quick hitch fiasco (as he called it) unlike some others.


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Mr. @Bruce, sir,
> 
> I would like to know what your impressions are of the flail mower after a couple of uses.  I somehow got the impression that flail mowers were rather fragile, almost like a sickle mower, but then I saw a YouTube video (I think on GP outdoors) where the flail mower was used to cut tougher stuff than grass.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


Will do. But to start - Flail mowers can uses "knives" or "hammers". The sales guy listened to what I was going to hack away at and said to get the knives. In theory they will chop down things up to 1" thick. The hammers are heavier so have more mass to put into whatever they hit. Since I'm not planning to intentionally hack at anything even 1", I took his advice. I think you can beat up somewhat larger stuff with the hammers but not as big as you can with a brush hog. 

Sadly, there is more non grass than grass in my "used to be a hay field" fields. I would guess that the thicker "woodier" stuff is about the thickness of my little finger and the mower had no issues chopping that up. It bogged a little when I got into really dense stuff that was like thick bladed grass, I just slowed down and no problem. I'll take a couple of pictures of what I have left to cut and what is on the ground post mowing. It is chopped up pretty well but not super short pieces. I think they would be shorter if the pre cut stuff wasn't so tall.

I don't know if a flail is fragile or not. There are a lot of knives/hammers, especially if one gets a finish mower. If you lose one, it needs to be replaced and from what I read on TractorByNet, the attachment is machine specific, some use clevis and cotter pins, some use bolts and nuts. A sickle bar mower would be nice for cutting under trees, Al's is a 6'. I know he's had to weld it near the pivot point a couple of times but the machine is old so that might not be a specific weak point though it is where the most stress is on the machine. The problem I have with them is that they are meant to cut near ground level leaving the entire upper part lying flat on the ground, sometimes thick stemmed stuff is pushed over under the just cut stuff and not cut at all, creating a mat that keeps anything from growing up through it. That is OK if you are cutting hay and are going to rake and bale it but that isn't the case here. Since we've had the place, the stuff being cut and dropped is 3'-4' high by the time it gets mowed.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I really dislike having to "chew" grass 3-4 times to get it broken down enough that I didn't have to "wear it" each time I turned into the wind.....


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## Bruce

Maybe you need a bagger!

Some mowing pictures
Some of the thicker stemmed stuff

  

Going to cut this
 

Cut
 

This turned out to not be as nauseating as I feared





I left patches of these flowers, the bees seem to like them. Are they possibly Bee Balm?
 

And the little barn swallows decided to have a nap on the deck rail this morning


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## Baymule

That mower is doing a good job. It is leaving a smooth cut without a bunch of clumps.


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## CntryBoy777

I agree...looks like it did quite the job for ya....now ya can enjoy even more parts of your place there....I'm still thinking about putting up a "shootin gallery" for the BB gun, here....can't play golf...don't care about being in an ocean....and I'm not fishing with gators, either....cause I sure as heck can't run....


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> I left patches of these flowers, the bees seem to like them. Are they possibly Bee Balm?


Maybe Aster?


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## Bruce

Not according to most of the pictures of Asters on Google. I'm not so sure about the Bee Balm though. The flowers look similar but it seems in the pictures I find on Google the leaves are a bit different. Plus these leaves are alternating the ones on the Bee Balm look to be bilateral. Who is the resident flower expert here??


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## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> Who is the resident flower expert here??



We have a friend in South Carolina who is.  I can copy your picture and ask him what it is if you want.


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## Mike CHS

He said he needs better resolution to see the flower shape and leaf shape.  I thought it might be a little fuzzy.


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## Bruce

I'll take more pictures. Someone on BYC suggested they might be Bachelor Buttons.


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## Bruce

OK, close up pictures instead of taken from the tractor


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## Mike CHS

Mike said the flower is Stokesia laevis and it's in the Daisy family.


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## Bruce

Thanks Mike, that fits when I Google it. A number of Google pictures for that also say Stokes Aster which is a bit easier to remember. There are tons of varieties so I'm guessing the people who lived here before us planted some in their flower garden (still there) and they spread to the fields which they did not keep up.


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## CntryBoy777

When my grandma lived on farm land, she would buy a packet of wildflower seeds each year and would scatter them about.....she loved flowers, but no time to mess with them....and since the yard area wasn't a point of focus...the flowers would grow thru the taller grass and she got to enjoy them as she walked to the vegetable garden....


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## Mike CHS

This friend that I asked to help is one of those people who reads everything imaginable and he remembers it all and he is a Botanist.  Mike and his wife Keena own Bright Lake Farm in upstate South Carolina where we started training Sassy and Lance.  They have been and still are our mentors on everything sheep related plus I still get to Mike's knowledge base every once in awhile.    I asked him a question about three years ago and when he said "I don't know", I almost fell out of my chair.


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## Baymule




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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I asked him a question about three years ago and when he said "I don't know", I almost fell out of my chair.


Well, no one is PERFECTLY perfect


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Some mowing pictures



Thank you, Mr. @Bruce!


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## Bruce

The chicks are now 7 weeks old
The EEs
  

The White Rocks Daisy and Iris .... or Iris and Daisy I can't remember which is which.
  

The Austra Whites
  

The Columbian Wyandottes, suspected male on the right


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## CntryBoy777

That's a nice group of Girls...ya got there....(thinking +).........ya don't need any Trouble to deal with....


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## Bruce

No I don't need another Trouble. But I'll be surprised if the one is a pullet. Just took WAY too long to feather up. If it is a cockerel and he behaves himself, he can stay. Heck, DD1 will be heading back to school in a little over a month and intends to stay there next summer so I won't even have to deal with her potential/probable issue with possibly fertile eggs other than the odd week here and there that she'll be here.


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> The chicks are now 7 weeks old
> The EEs
> View attachment 64590 View attachment 64591
> 
> The White Rocks Daisy and Iris .... or Iris and Daisy I can't remember which is which.
> View attachment 64594 View attachment 64595
> 
> The Austra Whites
> View attachment 64593 View attachment 64592
> 
> The Columbian Wyandottes, suspected male on the right
> View attachment 64596


They are beautiful looking!


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## Beekissed

Bruce, your young chooks are looking GOOD.


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## Baymule

I like EE's, their different colors and you never know what you'll get. I saved eggs from 3 EE's, 1 Cream Legbar, 1 Wellsummer and a EE rooster for my two hatches. They are a variety of colors, looks like I got a lot of young roos, but that's ok, I have no problem sending them to freezer camp. 

I have fertile eggs, people never know it. If you gather them daily and keep them refrigerated, the "spot" doesn't grow...….

You might enjoy hearing a rooster crow, it is a farm sound.


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## Bruce

True but you have to (well you don't HAVE to) understand DD1. The fact that there is a rooster means the egg COULD be fertile and therefore COULD develop into a chick if given the proper conditions. Yeah, I know


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## RollingAcres




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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir,

It seems that my idea of flail mowers being somewhat fragile was quite mistaken.  After all, you posted your short clip of you mowing your pasture with no problem and this YouTube video shows this guy not have any problem:




Of course, I did not see where he tried to run over any wood-type bushes or trees, but he wasn't afraid to go in the woods where limbs were on the ground.

Please let us know how the flail mower works for you.  And thank you for posting about your chickens.  (For some reason, the Dire Straits song "Money for Nothing" is going through my head.)

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Seems to be cutting stuff similar to what I was doing. Looks like he was occasionally using it to level the ground  He was cutting pretty low. I have mine on the highest setting which is supposed to be 4".

If you are wanting to make trails through the woods I think a bush hog would be the better choice but once they are cut a flail would maintain them. Definitely shortens the overall length of the tractor since my 5' flail is about 2' "long", a 5' bush hog would be closer to 6'.


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## farmerjan

One good thing about a bush hog  is that you can back up to places and use it to get under branches of trees that you can't go forward to get to.  Used a bush hog many times to clear back crappy weedy growth by backing up and using it to cut off vines and such.  Have never used a flail mower.  We use spacers on the hydraulic arm to control how low we let ours down to.  With all the uneven ground here, and rocks, you could not even think about it running that low to the ground.


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## Bruce

Here either! There are so many high and low spots that the flail skids will dig in if you make a sharp turn. 

You can lift a flail, back up and then lower it and cut running forward. Best to know that there isn't anything big in there though. You would get farther under the trees with a bush hog since it sticks out the back so much farther. So again, it depends on what you need to do.


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## farmerjan

Bruce said:


> Here either! There are so many high and low spots that the flail skids will dig in if you make a sharp turn.
> 
> You can lift a flail, back up and then lower it and cut running forward. Best to know that there isn't anything big in there though. You would get farther under the trees with a bush hog since it sticks out the back so much farther. So again, it depends on what you need to do.



Agree, plus you can run the bush hog while backing up.


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## Bruce

The instructions with my flail said not to mow backwards because you could hit something and damage the roller. If you know there is nothing there, you can mow backwards. But since the flail runs in the opposite direction of the tractor tires (when running forward), it won't cut as efficiently plus the roller will be holding the taller stuff down so the knives won't necessarily contact the "stalks" at the set cutting height.


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## Bruce

Saw a fish in the pond that had me really confused because it didn't look like either of the species I put in there from the bait shop.





But some Google investigations show it to be a male fathead minnow in breeding colors. I guess the fish are happy enough in the pond.





http://calfish.ucdavis.edu/species/?ds=241&uid=30


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## RollingAcres

Nice to see a fish in the pond.


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## Bruce

Yep and there are lots of little tiny ones too so I guess the environment is OK for them.


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## CntryBoy777

That's really Great!!.........looks like ya did well and shows the water is healthy to sustain life....that is the best "stamp of approval" of your hard work dredging it and hope the water level stays high enough for ya....


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## Bruce

Its going down but yes hopefully the added depth will keep it from going dry again. Could use some decent rain. Big T-storms all around this afternoon, reports of 60 MPH winds, heavy rain. Apparently we have an invisible umbrella over us. DW came home from the north and said trees down everywhere, tons of rain. Here? If I had a gauge I bet it wouldn't even have registered.


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## RollingAcres

Same here, thunder and lighting but only received some sprinkles then it's over. Then we hear on the news that the next town over trees were down and no power.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like ya both were better off not getting any of that storm.....smart to just let it "pass right on by".....


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## Mike CHS

We have a nice steady shower going on that started about an hour ago but no wind or other damaging stuff.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Sounds like ya both were better off not getting any of that storm.....smart to just let it "pass right on by".....


Can't disagree on that! Though some major quantity of the 1/2" rain predicted for today would have been nice. It is starting to turn into last summer again, no rain.


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## CntryBoy777

Since y'all up that way have been so Hot here as of late, maybe this will help to Cool ya down some.....

 ......


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## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> Since y'all up that way have been so Hot here as of late, maybe this will help to Cool ya down some.....
> View attachment 64814 ......


Can't wait!


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## Bruce

You have a time machine?? I don't remember putting that on the truck.


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## Bruce

Got around to testing the slide function of the WoodMaxx 62H today now that I no longer have a leaking hydraulic adapter. It doesn't want to do it on the ground but is happy to go both ways at any elevation off the ground. This was using the curl/dump valves from the loader, worked fine. Slid all the way left it looks like it will cut at about the outside edge of the left tire (turns out the tractor is 5.5 feet wide, sure wish I had the PTO power to run the 78H) and all the way right will be a few inches to the right of the right rear tire. If I'm careful, that should get me pretty close to the fence line.

BUT I find I have a new problem. I think the only way I'm going to get the mower off the quick hitch is to create a level platform just below the mower at full height. As I lower the flail, the quick hitch runs into the top link bracket. Too much friction to let the QH drop even though there is no tension at all on the top pin. I guess the other idea is to get one of those extender things. In either case, I still needed the replacement top hook because I couldn't use the rake with the OEM one on the HF QH. Of course I haven't yet tried the rake on the QH, could be I'll find yet another problem.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Wish I could help you, Mr. @Bruce.  I am still hooking up my 3-pt equipment the hard way.


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## Baymule

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Wish I could help you, Mr. @Bruce.  I am still hooking up my 3-pt equipment the hard way.


Can you get a quick change attachment to fit it? We have one for my 2320 Kubota, and I love it.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

I haven't looked for one yet, but I may.  Does anyone have a brand that they would recommend or (just as importantly) not recommend?


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## Mike CHS

I have and like the Pat's Quick Change Hitch and they seem to be available all over the place.  I got mine at Northern Tool on sale when I first got my tractor.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

I have the following 3-pt attachments: shredder/rotary mower (the one most difficult to connect and disconnect), wood chipper, box blade, and wagon (goose neck) hitch.  What makes the shredder the most difficult is connecting/disconnecting the PTO shaft.  But still, making the 3 attachment points easy to connect can't hurt.  I will look into those.


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## Bruce

Pat's is just the lower links though typically those are the hard ones to get lined up. And there is a spreader bar (optional I think) to set the arms at the right distance for a given implement. The spreader is taken off before you start working. 

I went with the Harbor Freight $100 model, but then had to go on Amazon for another $45 and buy one that put the hook a BIT farther back of the frame. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OKWIIOY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Seems to be something done by a lot of people on Tractorbynet. Seems ridiculous they don't have that sort of hook on it already. This was just to get it far enough back that the landscape rake could connect. I originally started looking for a QH at the Kubota dealer since they are close and that is where I got my Stihl chainsaw and string trimmer. They wanted something like $450 for theirs and I don't see a lot of difference, especially for something I'll use a few times a year.


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## Bruce

Somewhere @Senile_Texas_Aggie asked for pictures of the mod I did on my flail mower. Don't remember where so I'll just put them here. TSC didn't have a variety of clevis pins so I had to go with the much too long "universal" pin with a bunch of holes

replacement on the lower door connection.


 

Originally it had the same bolt and nut as the upper connection.


This is what it looks like with the door closed



And this is with the door open for maintenance


Forgot to mention, I measured the flail, front to rear it is only 29". Compare that to the 102" of a 5' brush cutter. Yep, lots easier for me to store!


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## Bruce

I heard the calls to FREE THE FISH!
Today was the day.
Here they are posing for their last "in the house" picture


And the first for comparison, when they had been in the bucket a couple of months.


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## Bruce

Here they are with a male fathead minnow protecting its territory, it is the one with the white markings on its fins


And some of the VERY MANY small fish in the pond, those that I put in from the bait store have been busy.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Somewhere @Senile_Texas_Aggie asked for pictures of the mod I did on my flail mower.



Thank you, Mr. @Bruce!  That is a lot clearer now.  And I can understand why you got a flail mower for the space savings!

Thank you for posting the video of freeing the fish!  I hope they can make it through the winter OK.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## AmberLops

I like your fish video  They're pretty cute!


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## B&B Happy goats

FREE THE FISH  .........


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## Pastor Dave

I have been wondering how your pond shaped up. You were hoping for Winter snow and Spring melt to fill it since working so hard on it last Fall. Sorry for such an abrupt question requiring a possibly long answer. You can make it as brief as you want.


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## Bruce

Pond was full in fall.
Is that brief enough?  We started to get rain not long after I finished digging it and it filled through the fall. I didn't put the fish back in because I had no idea if there would be anything for them to eat.

It was full most of the spring because we got a lot of rain. So much it delayed planting the garden, didn't even get in spring peas this year. But then, like last year, the rain became scarce and the pond has been going down. But so far, there is still plenty of water in it, far more than was there in July/August last year. The ASSUMPTION is that with a greater volume of water, it can evaporate at the same rate and still have enough to support life until the rains come again. 

I should take a picture so y'all (for the southern people) can see what it looks like. At this point I'm not concerned. But then we bought the place in Nov '11 and prior to last year the only year it got dangerously low was 2012 but August rains brought it back up. August last year was pretty dry, much more so than "normal" and it continued to dry as I dug.


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## Bruce

This was it mid September just before the rain came. BTW, all the water you see here came from the hose to keep the tadpoles alive


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## RollingAcres

"Free the fish" yay!
Your residence Heron says:"Yay, free food!"


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## Mike CHS

From the video it looks like your freed fish have plenty of food.


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## CntryBoy777

Ole Mr Snapper liable to return if there is meat on the menu.....


----------



## B&B Happy goats

You guys better stop or Bruce's women will make him take those two fish out so they won't be  hurt or eaten !


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## RollingAcres

B&B Happy goats said:


> You guys better stop or Bruce's women will make him take those two fish out so they won't be  hurt or eaten !


----------



## Pastor Dave

Thanks for my report on your pond. We too in Indiana had an unusual above average rain that kept the corn from being planted until dangerous cutoff dates. Most got planted. Some fields that don't drain well are just weeds this year. I have always heard from the old timers that if you get wet Springs with flooding, expect dry Summers and drought. We are pretty much following suit. Glad your hard work paid off on the pond.


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> "Free the fish" yay!
> Your residence Heron says:"Yay, free food!"


Actually .... DW and I had taken the container down and put it in the water to let the water get to the same temp as the pond so the fish wouldn't be shocked. I went back to the house to get the camera. The heron landed at the northern edge of the pond while DW was standing by the container. She figured she better not leave it unprotected. The heron left when she called to me to come slowly since the heron was there. First I've seen it this year but with all the frogs I'm sure it will be back.



CntryBoy777 said:


> Ole Mr Snapper liable to return if there is meat on the menu.....


Well ... No. I mentioned that the pond side adult was found as only a shell between the electronet and the cattle panel a couple of weeks ago. Today I was mowing the field, primary reason was to cut the overhanging branches so in the future I won't have to duck, push them out of the way, mow around them. Coming in I was running the edge of the fence on the north end of the pond and found the outside adult. All there but dead, right up against the fence. Must have died very recently. I suspect that means we no longer have any adult snapping turtles though we can probably ASSUME that the little one we saw in the pond last fall is still there.



B&B Happy goats said:


> You guys better stop or Bruce's women will make him take those two fish out so they won't be  hurt or eaten !


I really doubt we'll ever see them again, but you never know. The pond seems healthy given all the baby fish and the bazillion frogs in there now. They may grow big enough to be able to tell them from the fathead minnows and the shiners. They certainly have plenty of tiny fish to eat. If they do get to adult size AND we happen to look in the pond when they are closer to the edge, we will know they are still there.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

And you will bring them in for the winter.... @Bruce


----------



## Bruce

Nah, they are in the pond for good. Clearly it is biologically sound and they are big enough to fend for themselves.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Nah, they are in the pond for good. Clearly it is biologically sound and they are big enough to fend for themselves.


----------



## Bruce

I have an unanswerable question! Went down to the pond after closing up the barn just now. Saw lots of water bugs on the surface, walked the east (barn side) edge, said hi to lots of frogs. As I was standing at the NE 'corner' looking in the water something caught my eye. It was an adult snapping turtle that had obviously gone in very close to where I was standing and swimming to the deep part of the pond. 

So that question: Were there THREE adult STs or was the one I pulled away from the electric fence yesterday and tossed over the fence into the tall weeds on the pond bank not dead but stunned and recovered? I guess the only way to find out is to put on my boots and long pants and wander the north edge of the pond bank. If I find a dead turtle, the answer is there were originally (at least) 3 adult turtles. If I don't, there is still no answer since I'd be looking (almost) for a needle in a haystack).


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Well Bruce you could suit up and get your goggles out and go in for a look n see ! Then you may get a answer


----------



## Baymule

Or is it a totally NEW turtle that has decided that your pond is the fanciest real estate in the neighborhood?


----------



## CntryBoy777

Turtles can find a "way" to travel....snappers can dig and stay hidden for long periods of time....they will also use other animal tunnels....woodchuck, rabbits, fox, and just like the ones that make it across a road....some are just lucky....snappers are meat eaters and anything is on the menu.....


----------



## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> snappers are meat eaters and anything is on the menu.....


And on the menu is 2 freshly released fish


----------



## Bruce

Or, hopefully, the tadpoles or the purchased fish that I bought and dumped in the pond rather than the two I raised in the house all winter!



B&B Happy goats said:


> Well Bruce you could suit up and get your goggles out and go in for a look n see ! Then you may get a answer


That isn't necessary since I KNOW there is an adult in there.



Baymule said:


> Or is it a totally NEW turtle that has decided that your pond is the fanciest real estate in the neighborhood?


Given the pond is inside the fenced area, I'm guessing this one didn't come in any more recently than 2.5 years ago when I put the fence up OR is the one I tossed over the fence. I acknowledge Fred's comment on them being able to dig but at least so far there are no holes under the fence. I would see it when I run the trimmer to keep the weeds from growing up into the hot wire.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Would the women in your life get upset if you carried (say) a 22 pistol and sent the turtle to turtle heaven?  That way you would be protecting the fish there.  Of course, that would still leave the heron.


----------



## RollingAcres

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Would the women in your life get upset if you carried (say) a 22 pistol and sent the turtle to turtle heaven?  That way you would be protecting the fish there.  Of course, that would still leave the heron.


STA, if he could carry a 22, he could have easily "taken care" of his woodchuck problem last year and the year before.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce, a baby bottle nipple over the end of the barrel supposedly makes an effective silencer. Not that I would know.....


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Save the


Baymule said:


> Bruce, a baby bottle nipple over the end of the barrel supposedly makes an effective silencer. Not that I would know.....



 just got a mental image of Bruce sneaking out to the pond with a baby nipple on the end of a shot gun  in camouflage  ...".turtle sniper in Vermont strikes again".......


----------



## RollingAcres




----------



## AmberLops

Turtle murder for hire


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> STA, if he could carry a 22, he could have easily "taken care" of his woodchuck problem last year and the year before.


That would be true, could have offed the raccoon I caught (unexpectedly) in the trap year before last a lot easier as well. Sadly it often takes several pellets to kill the critters. I don't want them around eating my chickens or digging holes to undermine things but I don't need them to suffer either. 

I guess everyone here with a .22 will need to test the baby bottle nipple thing with a decibel meter and report back  And I ASSUME one should buy the large economy pack since after one use there will be a very large hole in the nipple which would affect performance.

Actually I'm not all that happy that the turtles are dead. Based on their size, they have to be quite a few years old and to my knowledge haven't caused any harm. According to Wikipedia, up here they reach breeding age at 15-20 years and since we did see the Teeny Tiny Turtle last fall, these critters have clearly been hiding out a LONG time. They were seen only a few times in the past 8 years. And now I don't even know if those who had seen them saw the same one.

OK, the unanswerable question is answered. I used the trimmer on both sides of the north fence today. The dead turtle is still dead, it had flattened out the 6'+ tall stuff as it came over the fence and landed on the "dam" clearly visible with no hunting necessary. That means we have at least 1 adult turtle inside the fence and had at least 3 before.  There won't be any more turtles for a LONG time and then only if the one I saw yesterday and the TTT are opposite genders.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir!

I've been meaning to ask you -- now that you have had your Mahindra for a little over a year, how do you like it?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

So far so good though I'd like a better parking brake setup. There is a short lever under the steering column that you pull up while the brake is pushed in. Underneath is a curved notched plate that is moved by the lever. Many more than once I've set the brake only to have it pop out or the tractor rolling (hill) slowly and I have to set it again or push on the brake while holding the lever and hearing it 'crunch' into the slot. Would prefer it like my garden tractor which has a wide larger lever, easier to lift up and never had it not engage.


----------



## Bruce

Well what do you know, both Betty AND Angel went broody yesterday and are spending time in the lock up  If Angel wants babies so bad why did she kick the kids to the curb at 6 weeks? Anais is still with them at 9 weeks.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Probably because she only can "put up with them" til they reach a certain age....and by then, she is "way past done" with these "thangs".....


----------



## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> Probably because she only can "put up with them" til they reach a certain age....and by then, she is "way past done" with these "thangs".....


----------



## Bruce

Probably. Zorra waited until 8 weeks when she did the duty. I guess Angel doesn't remember how long Zorra stuck with her and the others. Anais is still happily calling the littles to food and hangs with them all day. Tonight 3 of them are next to her, the other 5 are on the opposite side of the coop.

On the tractor @Senile_Texas_Aggie, I forgot to mention the PTO power. I wish it had more so I could have gotten the 6' flail. Not something I knew to think about when I was looking. The Kubota L3301 is a pretty much equivalent tractor (33 HP engine, 26.2 HP PTO vs 34.5 HP engine, 24.7 PTO) But it seriously lags on loader lift (1131 pounds full height at pin vs 1650 for mine). If you've seen Mike Morgan's recent videos he mentioned he sold his Kubota L3301 since 
1) he has the 3 RKs (though how long he gets to keep them is unknown)
2) the lift capacity just isn't there and he hauls out some big loads. 
The RK 37 has a whopping 2116 pounds to full height at the pin. The shuttle shift version has 30.2 PTO so could run a 6' flail though it is on the low end of the PTO requirement, at least for my WoodMaxx flail.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Thanks for the update.  I have been watching a good number of tractor reviews on different YouTube channels and got to wondering how well you were liking your tractor.


----------



## Bruce

Today DD1, her BF visiting from Indiana and I went out and marked the rest of the south lot line. I don't recall if I mentioned it but I had surveyors come and start the process a month or so ago. They stopped when it was quitting time for the day which was fine. What was left was about 500' straight line from their last stake to the survey marker at the SW corner. DD wore her bright pink rain coat which turned out to be very helpful. She was placed at the 2nd to last stake, BF at the last stake and I ran a tape measure, trying for 100' (but that didn't always work out due to the terrain) to set the next stake when the tape, BF and DD1 were all in line. When I put a stake in DD1 took BF's stake, BF came to the new one and off I went again. Turned out pretty well, I was about 2' N of the corner marker (not realizing I had closed in on it) about 30' from the last stake I had put in (which was then moved about 2' to be inline with DD1 and the corner survey marker.

Additional fun, I cut up the 2 birches I had brought in from the edge of the woods 2 weeks ago. The Echo 590 Timber Wolf sure cuts through the wood fast.

I forgot to add, there are 4 barn swallow babies in the second nest. Never had a second round before and I assume it isn't the same parents or they would have used their existing nest instead of making a new one on the next joist over.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

That was a neat idea you had, Mr. Bruce.  I need to do something like that along my southwest property line.  Could you loan your DD1 and her BF for a while?


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

If you haven't seen episode #535 of Outdoors with the Morgans, you should watch it.  It's pretty funny.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, Mr. @Mike CHS, and others with big rocks,

I was looking for tractor attachments to cut down trees with and stumbled upon this YouTube video on removing big rocks.  I had never seen or heard of such a thing.  Let me know what you think:





Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> I had never seen or heard of such a thing. Let me know what you think:


Me either, looks pretty slick. Now all I need is a gas generator of sufficient size to run that drill! I've definitely got a few surface rocks that could be no problem for mowing if they were even just a few inches shorter.


Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Could you loan your DD1 and her BF for a while?


That could be hard. BF is heading back to Indiana today and DD1 is going back to school Friday. Maybe you could find one more helper. Definitely works well with 3 people. You might want to get a GOOD compass. I was planning to follow the compass bearing but the cheap one I had couldn't find a heading for its life. And since it was trash day and they hadn't come yet, it paid for its inability with a trip to the dump later in the day.



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Mr. @Bruce,
> If you haven't seen episode #535 of Outdoors with the Morgans, you should watch it.  It's pretty funny.


I have, I watch the YouTube channels I follow every night. It was funny. I'd seen the electric bike when Eva was riding it in a prior episode. Wondering why he was using it and the little electric chain saw to cut down a tree when he has so much better equipment. Then came the video with the "East coast sissy" comment and Mike returns with the "big guns".  I don't think I could likely even use that MS880, the thing is a monster.


----------



## Mike CHS

That is a pretty neat product.


----------



## Bruce

I mowed the fields again to keep the weeds down and HOPEFULLY allow the grass to take over a bit. I really should get a soil sample and find out what is needed for good grass growth and hopefully less weed growth. I also dug out 3 more icebergs and while mowing likely found a few more I might be able to dig out. Then there is the ledge which would take a lot more that any size excavator to get out. 

 saw a likely juvenile wood*uck out front of the barn in the metal pile yesterday. Given the time of year it was probably born somewhat nearby and kicked out to live on its own. Guess I should be happy I've not had others this year until now. Time to get the trap out but that will wait until we get back from Canada on the 7th. With DD2 and DW at work during the day & DD1 in Canada I won't have to be stealthy about catching and disposing of it. Sure don't want it living here through the winter to make more in the spring.


----------



## Baymule

Here you go again….the Ninja woodchuck trapper!


----------



## Bruce

Yep. Not my favorite thing. Guess I need to head to TSC for more all stock pellets. Seems the g-hogs really like those, at least based on my last attempts to trap them.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Guess I should be happy I've not had others this year until now.


Those dang woodchucks!


----------



## CntryBoy777

May be time to get a pistol since ya don't have to be so careful........sure hope ya have a great trip and enjoy the sights and food along the way.....Safe travels my friend!!...


----------



## RollingAcres

So @Bruce how was the trip to Canada? And more importantly did you catch that woodchuck yet?


----------



## Bruce

Trip was good, managed to not have any rain when we wanted to be outside. Lots of interesting things, especially the butterfly house and the Greenwich park walking trails. We did our best to support the local mussel farmers  We got to the middle and east side of the island. Interestingly, the price of gas at 99+% of the stations was $1.158/liter (~ US $3.35/gallon), 2 cents less than in New Brunswick. One would think having to truck or boat it over would make it more expensive. BTW, the "ransom" to leave the island is CAD 47.75 for a 2 axle vehicle. 

Haven't seen the woodchuck but I'm going to put the trap out tonight and see if it is still around. Likely as not I'll trap a bunny.


----------



## RollingAcres

So you can enter for free but would have to pay to leave...


----------



## Bruce

Yep. It is a really long bridge - 8 miles. I think they should discount the ransom based on how much you spend on the island


----------



## RollingAcres

I like that idea! Or based on how long your stay is. The longer you stay the cheaper.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah because you buy lodging and food EVERY day you are there! I wonder if there is a cheap "season's pass" for PEI residents. You aren't likely going off island very often if it costs nearly $50 each time.


----------



## RollingAcres

Wait...the island residents have to pay to get off the island as well? That would be like you local town charging you every time you "leave" your town to go to work or do other things.


----------



## Bruce

I don't know! Guess I better look it up. I was going to make lunch but now you've sent me into the internet black hole!!


----------



## RollingAcres

Bahahaha! I'm SO sorry!
But it's not lunch time yet, so you have time.


----------



## Bruce

Apparently they DO have to pay the same $47.75 every time they leave the island!! That really sucks.


----------



## RollingAcres

Wow that really sucks! Guess if you want to live there, you better make sure that you are either retired or can find a job working on the island.


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## Bruce

AND you never want to leave the island. Probably keeps the population from increasing due to immigration from other provinces/territories. AND ... they just replaced the Champlain Bridge going into Montreal, cost $4.2B (of course that is ONLY about $3.2B US ) and it is FREE for everyone. It is a lot shorter bridge (2 miles) so less annual maintenance cost. I don't know what the reason is for no charge, maybe the traffic jams 160,000 vehicles crossing per day would cause. It is already bad even with no tool booths, they got rid of those on the old bridge in 1990.

Also, you are wrong about lunch time. I'm retired, lunch time is whenever I feel like eating lunch in the general 11 AM to 1 PM timeframe


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> AND you never want to leave the island


So you better raise your own food or eat only things that you can buy or grow on the island. Everything else would have to be mail ordered! 



Bruce said:


> Also, you are wrong about lunch time. I'm retired, lunch time is whenever I feel like eating lunch in the general 11 AM to 1 PM timeframe


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

So I am guessing you went to Prince Edward Island for a vacation/tour?  Your daughter is not attending college there, is she?  I was thinking it was another town closer to Vermont.


----------



## Bruce

Well Sackville New Brunswick *IS* closer to Vermont than PEI is but only by 2 hours. It is a 12 hour two day drive for us to get to Sackville. If you stay on the Trans Canada highway and don't get off in Sackville, the next town is in Nova Scotia. If you turn left before you hit Nova Scotia, you end up at the bridge to PEI. 

Yes, DW and I spent 3.5 days in PEI after dropping DD at school on Sunday the 1st.


----------



## Bruce

I was going to post that I hadn't seen the chuck for awhile, maybe he moved on. Then I thought I heard something run under stored wood beams in front of the barn so I put the trap out where I had seen it before. 2 days later and no furry thing in the trap but then I saw it yesterday afternoon about 10' from the trap so I moved it to that location. Nothing this morning, I figured it wasn't interested in the sweet feed so I was going to think of something else. 

But as I was moving cordwood from the front walk onto the porch I heard the door trip. Yipee!! Young chuck in the trap and it was 4 PM, no one home but the animals and me.
I don't feel quite as bad about shooting this little guy because like the first chuck I shot in the trap a few years ago (a big momma) this was a one and done event. Most of the others have taken 3-5 and they had to have suffered some which is not my goal. Young master woodchuck took a one way trip to the woods at the edge of the field. If there is a hungry fox out there, it can have tender woodchuck instead of going after my chickens.


----------



## Baymule

That was good timing! No one home. Sometimes things just work out.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Nice catch!


----------



## Bruce

Today I was replacing a gas vapor sensor in DW's car. Neighbor across the road came over all apologetic because he had opened an envelope that should have been put in our mailbox. Just ripped the end off before noticing it was addressed to us (from the C.U., it is the mortgage bill, I wouldn't mind if he HAD paid it ). No biggie, really. 

As it happens he is building a 2 lift garage with containers on either side. Had 4 piles of stone in front of it that needed to be spread, especially over the bolts in the front of the concrete pad so the guy bringing the containers wouldn't puncture a tire. Said he had more than he needed and he knew I was planning to get some stone to fill in front of the barn where the tractor and garden tractor live as well as at one of the entrances to the parking area. I guess some would call it a circular drive but that sounds kinda fancy for a stone and weed drive around space. So I'm good with getting some stone and told him "I have a tractor, why beat up your plow moving that stone?" We struck a deal, I got some stone and moved the rest up against and over the bolts at the edge of the pad.

While placing the stone in front of the bay the tractor goes in, I tapped the unstable pile of straw bales and scrap metal (sure would be nice to have depth perception) just inside the door opening. Yeah I REALLY do need to get that scrap metal gone! In any case, the pile shifted a fair bit and likely I'd not be able to get the tractor in without knocking it over completely. So I took all the scrap metal and put it in the outside scrap metal pile and started moving the straw bales. I discovered where Little Lana the Golden Campine (who was taken by a fox in early May ) had been laying. There were TWENTY FIVE eggs in a nest on a straw bale. She had to have gotten there from the back side and it was under another bale. She's the one that had been laying on top of one of the round bales in the stall by the alpacas earlier in the year. Guess I should have let her keep doing that. Silly bird, cute as could be, excellent forager but not smart enough to stay in the fenced area. Of course that didn't save Yuki since she was taken in early June inside the fenced area.


----------



## Bruce

Got one egg from Angel about 8:30 this morning .... and 17 from the 3 Easter Eggers at close up time.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Bruce said:


> Got one egg from Angel about 8:30 this morning .... and 17 from the 3 Easter Eggers at close up time.


Are ya saying those 3 hens "spit out" 17eggs in 1 day by 5pm?.......that's gotta be a record for something.....


----------



## Bruce

Well, either that or they have been at it awhile! 

Yue wasn't up in the community box where she has been sleeping. She's 7 and I don't think her eyesight is so good any more. Perhaps she's afraid to jump up on the 2' roost and use the ramp to the 4's or maybe she just doesn't feel safe on a roost at all. In any case, she had taken to sleeping in the corner of the feed room under the ladder but that isn't predator proof so I made a cardboard box and put it in the corner of the coop. I'd move her there nightly but for some reason she decided to get up into the community box. I moved her from there nightly for a while but decided to let her use it after a week or so. She wasn't there nor under the ladder so I started looking around and moved a piece of plywood that was leaning against the outside wall of the alley and there was a nest of 17 green, clean but for the dust, eggs. I finally found her in the corner where I had put that cardboard box (taken out last week since she wasn't using it). I wouldn't have found that nest if I hadn't been searching for Yue.


----------



## Bruce

Found 2 more EE eggs this morning, one near the nest of 17 and one buried in the hay next to the cat litter pan nest that Yuki had used. Other girls have used that nest but this buring the eggs thing is new. Both passed the float test and along with one I found last night made French toast breakfast for 3.


----------



## Baymule

I have 5 barn chickens that lay where ever. They like the round bale. When I clean out the leftovers in preparation for a new bale, I often find eggs they have burrowed into the hay to lay. I even speared one on the tine of a pitchfork one day. Oops. I break them one at a time into a cup before using, just to look them over. LOL


----------



## Bruce

I wish I knew WHY they decided to change where they lay! Given all the moulting going on, I'm not surprised the egg count has been down but now there is another reason.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir!

I meant to post this earlier, but family visits prevented me.

I am really glad that your neighbor and you were able to work out a deal for the gravel, as you both benefited.  And it is good you found one of the secret laying spots for the chickens.  How many chickens total do you have?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

24 girls. 4 are 7 Y/O, 4 are 5 Y/O, 5 are 2.5 Y/O, 3 are 1.5 Y/O, 8 were hatched (at Meyer in Ohio) 17 weeks ago tomorrow. I THINK one of them laid last week but hasn't since. I don't usually expect eggs until they are 22-28 weeks on average.


----------



## farmerjan

One of the reasons I have found that hens change where they lay is because the don't feel safe where they were laying.  For whatever reason.  And I had to keep fake eggs/golf balls in nests or they felt like they weren't accomplishing anything.... as in wanting to stockpile eggs to set on.... plus you may want to put drop cloths on the front of the nest boxes halfway down, as many hens prefer to go into a semi-lighted place to lay... it's a security/hiding thing.  Then there is always the  " who knows why I just wanted to go lay somewhere that you can't find them"  reason.


----------



## Mike CHS

We also keep fake eggs in our nest boxes.  Occasionally, one will lay an egg just short of the nest boxes but we are guessing that's because another hen was on the box when the urge came.


----------



## Baymule

You can have 8 nest boxes and they may use two, then stand outside of their favorite box yelling their little birdy brains out because another hen has that spot.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Yep...it's that "pecking order" thang they got going on........just like a spot on the roost pole....


----------



## Bruce

I do have fake eggs in the nests, one I made from a piece of cherry wood, the others are all plastic "Easter Eggs". The girls that have changed their laying location have been laying in the regular nests with these for 2 and 5 years respectively. Maybe they are upset by the 8 new pullets, though only one has (maybe) laid an egg so far.


----------



## farmerjan

It could very well be the change in the flock dynasty.  Even if they are all getting along, you have changed the pecking order with the introduction of new birds.  Chickens don't like change like that.  Change their environment, like with moving a chicken tractor around, is fine.  You have changed their "home place".  Might get better once they all settle in.


----------



## Bruce

Mowed the lawn today, after spending 2 hours trying to get Rhea (one of the EE pullets) back to the chicken area. I'd gone to put the multimeter in the workshop and there was the sound of something bolting in the weeds at the corner of the barn where the workshop door is. I thought ***, another woodchuck but saw Rhea instead. Not sure how she got there but she is the bird that I have to take off the people door into the coop and put her on a roost each night. She might have gone out the alpacas' end of the barn, hopped up onto a piece of plywood I have for a windbreak by the alpacas' door and flown over the fence. The pullets aren't trained to come when called nor to scratch in a can since they have never been out front. Janet put the kibosh on that in the spring because the hens were scratching in her flowers and ripping them out. 

My first attempt was to get her to come to scratch. As noted, not much hope there. She would eat what I tossed toward her but wasn't leaving cover. Since she's never been out front I doubt she could ever find her way across the front of the barn to the gate. 

My second attempt was to bring Cassie (2 Y/O EE) out since I know she will come to food hoping Rhea would come out of the weeds to eat with her. That didn't work and Cassie headed back to the gate, she's in full blown moult and likely doesn't feel too comfortable being out and exposed. 

Third attempt worked. I let out 8 of the older girls that I know will come to scratch and called them over to the corner of the barn where Rhea was hanging out in the weeds. I tossed scratch here and there and Rhea came to join the feast. I slowly led them back toward the other end of the barn and managed to get them all in back". Stupid chicken!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sounds like ya had an "event filled" day there Bruce....sure reminds me of a few I "participated" in myself..........and when I would have the same exact words about a chicken, my mom would always snap back with.....but that Stupid chicken made ya think, now didn't it?.............it sure wasn't funny at the time, but now ya think of the "fun" ya had/have....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir,

I am glad you figured out how to get the chicken back in the coop!

You mentioned having to mow.  When do you normally stop needing to mow?  Also, have you been getting the normal amount of rain, or have you been in a drought?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

No drought this year. I'd guess it is about normal for non drought years (2012 & 2018).
Can't say as I really know when mowing normally stops (other than drought). I have now mowed twice more than I thought I would. Still once a week though in the spring that is about 2 days later than I should based on growth.


----------



## Baymule

I have a fish net that I use to capture wayward chickens. I used to have chickens that I could herd back to the coop, but now I have chickens that scatter like a shotgun blast. I have 5 that abandoned their coop and now sleep on the sheep's round bale. We are going to have to come to some kind of agreement, I would rather them have shelter for the winter.


----------



## Bruce

Not to mention safety. Though you have a passel of LGD's so I suppose the possibility of a predator getting to those hens is quite remote. 

Don't have a net but even if I did I couldn't have used it to catch Rhea. She was in thick 5' tall weeds and under a small tree that is up against a short section of 3 rail fence.


----------



## farmerjan

What about a leg catch?  They will maneuver in tighter spots.  I keep one and have caught many a bird with it.  Not that great if you get it tangled in weeds, but still, more flexibility to where you can use it as opposed to a net.  I use a net with a retractable handle, that also came from the fishing/sporting aisle of Walmart.  It is PERFECT to catch the "left-behinds".


----------



## Baymule

I caught 3 of the 5 barn chickens this evening and put them in the coop. They hate me.


----------



## Bruce

I do have a leg catch Jan, can't imagine how I could have gotten Rhea with it in those weeds, the tree and the fence. 

My chickens don't like me to catch them either. The littles still think I am to be avoided but they will eventually come around. The only downside I can think of with hen raised chicks. I do have to catch Daisy and Lily and band them. Easy to tell them apart now since Daisy has developed comb and wattles, Lily isn't there yet.


----------



## Bruce

Regarding hard boiling eggs so they are easy to peel:
I heard that doing it in a pressure cooker works so I found a method with Google. 
In short: IT WORKS! 
https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/237562/pressure-cooker-hard-boiled-eggs/

I did 3 eggs, 2 of unknown age they were part of a hidden nest with 19 eggs, 15 from one Easter Egger, 4 from another. The third egg was 6 days old from a White Rock. They all peeled easily and the yolks were perfect, yellow, not tinting, not chalky.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Thanks Bruce, I had forgotten the vinegar that my grandmother used to use !


----------



## Bruce

For @CntryBoy777 and whoever else


----------



## Baymule

That is pretty! I like the view, but I'll keep my green pine trees. LOL LOL


----------



## Bruce

We have some green trees all year and more green trees starting in May, then lots of colors in the fall


----------



## farmerjan

You are several weeks ahead of us.  Especially this year since we have been so hot and dry through Sept.  Normally we see some decent color about the 10-20 of Oct.... but it is still dry here.  Some leaves are coming off without any color change, just drying up and falling.  But we will be more like the end of Oct before there is some real color. 
Looks like @Mini Horses  may have gotten some rain this afternoon, the clouds were south and headed east and seemed to move over the whole eastern part.


----------



## Bruce

I've heard the same is happening in W. VA. Similar year there, rain early then dry, dry, dry.


----------



## Bruce

Finished up a couple of projects. Built 2 more wood drying/storage/delivery racks total of 7 now. Need 12 but running out of scrap wood to make them. Last year I had a tarp I used to cover the left side and back (as seen from outside the porch) which was kinda a pain since I had to move it to each new rack before it was put on the porch. This year I made a common back panel with a wood frame supported piece of metal roof and put a piece of the same roof metal on the left side of the porch. Now when I replace a rack on the porch landing I just have to move the roof (with the tractor forks) and move the back panel over, it connects with hooks. It should keep most of the snow from blowing into the wood.


 

I also moved all the racks up near the house so I don't have far to go with them in the cold and snow.
 

Finished moving the hot wire to the outside of the posts. I also put a cut off switch at the gate in the west line so I can turn off the south section without going to the far north end of the barn and unplugging the charger.
 

Since there was a gap of at least 6" on the hinge side of the gate, I slammed a T Post in the gap.
 

I think the fenced area is as fox resistant as I can get it other than I could maybe run some hot wire on the outside of the gate hinge and strike posts as a clever fox could figure out there is no pain if it goes straight up those.

And in less happy news Yue died Thursday night. She was a 7+ Y/O Ancona, one of my first 12 chicks; there are now 3 left. I wasn't surprised, she's been looking old the last couple of months but she was still running out of the coop tail held high with the rest of the girls every morning and was out front  of the barn and house foraging with them Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons while I was working out there. She always was the one I had to go hunt for when everyone else came back to the barn as the sun got low. The last month she hadn't been up on the roost, had taken to sleeping in the nest boxes but eventually couldn't even get there so I slanted a board (so the birds up top would not poop on her all night) against the wall in the corner of the coop and made her a little sleeping cave. It rained hard all day Thursday, I didn't bother to open the barn until about 3. She was hunkered in a corner with her tail down and neck pulled in. Didn't figure she'd make many more days. 

She had a pretty darn good chicken life. She was the first as a chick to get brave and try a sunflower seed, pecked the water nipple before I even had water in the jug. She and her "sister" Zia were the top of the flock and made sure to remind all the other girls with frequency until Zia had a couple of strokes or heart attacks and died 3 years ago. Yue was still top but didn't often choose to show it to the others so I guess that was mainly Zia. Yue and the others had free run of the yard around the house and behind the barn every day since spring 2013 until DW got fussy about the girls digging up in the flower garden this spring. Of course when there was snow on the ground they hung in the barn. Yue always slept wherever she wanted on the roosts and no one ever challenged her about anything. BOSS every morning, scratch every night. What more could a chicken want? 

Here she is back in June at 7 years old


----------



## rachels.haven

Glasses raised for Yue!


----------



## Mini Horses

Yue was a beautiful, beautiful girl!   She had a long and enjoyable time on earth, as documented by her long lifespan.  You will miss her, it is certain.  But you gave her everything for that long, happy life!


----------



## farmerjan

Like the way you have the panels to protect the wood from the worst of the weather.  Those racks have turned out good.  Bet it is a nice thing to look out and see them ready to go and realize that you don't have to go out and fight the weather just to get in some wood when it is snowing and such.  Although I have seen a forecast that the extreme northern plains states, and New England are due for colder than normal temps with higher than normal precip, maybe you will have enough of a few breaks to be able to refill one or two racks after you have emptied them.  They are saying we are in the normal to warmer than normal area for the winter, with pretty much average precipitation. So that could mean anything is possible.  Would rather it be snow than the cold bone chilling rain of 2 years ago.  We will take it as it comes since we can't do anything to change it. 
Sorry about your hen.  I know they are family/pets to you.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It's always tough to lose one ya have spent that much time with.........glad she brought ya joy and ya was able to enjoy the "fruits of her labor".....I'm sure she will be missed at roost time.....


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> maybe you will have enough of a few breaks to be able to refill one or two racks after you have emptied them.


Besides the 7 racks I have about 1.75 cords on the porch from my neighbor who used to cut and sell firewood but stopped. Except he got bored and cut some more. He'll probably have a bit more next year as well, said he has some trees he wants to cut down.

I have enough dried to fill only 1/2 of one. I have some birch the I cut earlier this summer, they were hanging down into the field, weren't doing that last year. But I just split it last week. I did go out and mark some trees to cut this fall (guess I better hurry!) to block for next year. I can split it in the spring and it should be dry for next fall/winter.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Sorry Bruce for your loss of Yue.....even a chicken can break your heart,...we sure do love our crirrers


----------



## Baymule

I'm real sorry about Yue, she was a very pretty girl. 7 years is a long life for a chicken and she had a good life.


----------



## AmberLops

I'm sorry that you lost Yue...she was a beautiful hen


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> 7 years is a long life for a chicken and she had a good life.


She did and there are still 3 more from the original flock - Zorra, Black Australorp; Persephone, Easter Egger and Anais, Faverolles. Persephone still lays regularly spring and summer, Zorra and Anais only when they decide it is time to go broody AGAIN.


----------



## Bruce

Note to those who might buy a landscape rake for their tractor: Get one with a stand!!! What a PITA. Not real Quick Hitch compatible with the lower pins laying on the ground. I wonder if there is a bolt on stand I could buy.


----------



## Mike CHS

I just use some cinder blocks to hold it up.


----------



## Bruce

I'll see if I have any. I guess I could slap some wood together to make a support.


----------



## AmberLops

Bruce said:


> I'll see if I have any. I guess I could slap some wood together to make a support.


Pallets maybe?


----------



## Bruce

Doesn't need to be that big. Even a 2x4 cut to the right length would work. Might want to screw a piece of plywood to the bottom for stability.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir,

Have you seen the latest Tractor Mike video?  It is titled "Why Not to Buy a Tractor Backhoe (the 4 Reasons I Haven't)".  In the video he asked that those who own backhoes to provide comments as to whether they have been happy with their purchase or thought it a waste of money.  Have you commented?  If not, I think it would help those who may be thinking of getting a backhoe for/with their tractor:






Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Baymule

Since my internet sucks and videos take forever to play, can I take the shortcut and ask, what are the 4 reasons not to have a backhoe on a tractor? I love tractor gadgets and would adore one!


----------



## Mike CHS

I watched the video.  The biggest reason was the cost versus the amount of use.  Another was the pain in the A$$ to get it on and off.  Another was that for the few uses that you might have, rentals are available.  The guy that did the video said he sold one unit in 11 years because he couldn't justify the use versus cost.  

I went through all of that when I bought my tractor and elected not to get one since I have contacts that I can get fairly cheap for the few times I would need one.


----------



## farmerjan

Baymule said:


> Since my internet sucks and videos take forever to play, can I take the shortcut and ask, what are the 4 reasons not to have a backhoe on a tractor? I love tractor gadgets and would adore one!


PITB to put on and off with the kind needed to do heavy work has a sub frame; a 3 pt hitch type can put alot of stress on the tractor frame plus you will want to use it, then switch to a bush hog then have to switch back....; a piece of equipment that you don't want to leave out when you are not using it, so it gets put inside and takes alot of space, but that would protect it from weathering; do you have enough jobs to use it  and would it be big enough to do a bigger job, like burying a big animal like an elderly horse;  and he has good alternatives, can rent one that would be more sensible than make payments for years, or can call a neighbor to do it and they can get the job done quicker, and maybe can trade off with a neighbor that has a mini excavator but not a tractor.


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## farmerjan

@Mike CHS  and I were posting about the same time.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

All of the reasons listed are why I don't have one.  But Mr. @Bruce, you DO have one and I am fairly certain you used it to deepen your pond.  So are you happy you got one?  Either way, if you would kindly do so, let us all know here on BYH and even more importantly, let the viewers of Tractor Mike know what you think.


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## Bruce

Yep, I've watched all the Tractor Mikes. I did post on that one, taking the hoe off my tractor (which is a Mahindra similar to the one he was standing behind I think) wasn't hard at all. My guess is that he's never done it more than a couple of times, or maybe they were a lot harder back when he was selling tractors and he's not checked into "current technology". 

The process for mine: Set the bucket and stabilizers on the ground, pull two pins, push the hoe up off the tractor with the stabilizers, pull the tractor forward a bit and disconnect the hoses. I've not tried to put it back on, I'm sure that will be "fun" since lining it up will be critical. Beyond that, it is the reverse of taking it off. Back up, connect the hoses, raise the hoe with the stabilizers (which leak down so they are currently flat on the ground), back up more, lower the hoe onto the "cradle", reinstall the pins. Since I don't have inside storage for it, I have it covered with a tarp in front of the barn. No desire to leave any equipment out in the sun/rain/snow. 

Am I glad I got mine?? Yes, digging that pond out took both the loader bucket and the hoe (and the hoe rescued me a couple of times). It would have been pretty expensive to rent one for the time I used it and since I have no way to transport such things I'd have to pay for delivery and pickup as well. I was doing the 50 hour service on the tractor by the end of the second week of ownership. I wouldn't consider a 3 pt hoe any more than I would consider forks that clamp on to the bucket. Way too much chance to damage things with weight and pressure they were not designed to handle.

If I need to bury a large animal, my hoe could easily do the job (assuming I can find somewhere without ledge) as it will dig down 10', I don't know what he was talking about there unless he was thinking a little 3 pt hoe on a subcompact tractor. He could certainly do it with that Mahindra and I posted as much. I do have future uses for my hoe and could have saved some money on "hired out" projects if I had the machine 3 years earlier but agree one should think about why they want a hoe in the first place. If you have access to one free or cheap for some occasional small jobs, that would certainly suggest your money could be better spent on other implements/attachments (or  something non tractor related).


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

I went back and read all of the comments on that video.  I somehow overlooked your comment, but I am glad to know you provided one.  I also learned about towable backhoes / trenchers.  That looks like something that could be useful and not require being attached to the tractor.  Here is a video demonstrating one in action:


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## Bruce

Curious little machine. $3K at Harbor Freight. This guy sure put his to the test, likely a lot more than the designers planned for but it did the job. You can see him crabbing it to move the machine around the 27 minute mark. As he says, it is really more meant for digging trenches than digging large stumps and I can see how one could dig a trench using the bucket to lift the stabilizers and push the machine back as shown in the video you linked


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir,

Thanks for that video.  Very interesting.  I may get one some day.

Senile texas Aggie


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## Baymule

If I had a back hoe, I'd dig a pond. I doubt that my little tractor could do much, but I am still delighted with it.


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## Mike CHS

Baymule said:


> If I had a back hoe, I'd dig a pond. I doubt that my little tractor could do much, but I am still delighted with it.



I had two pond holes but neither held water so I won't be getting back hoe.    A friend has a gigantic dozer that makes stumps look like sticks and I can get him for $100 an hour.


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## Baymule

That would be my luck. Dig a pond in this sand and watch a hard rain fill it up, then watch it all drain away.....


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @Baymule,

I bet you could do as Mr Greybeard recommended to me to stop my pond from leaking and use Bentonite (I think that is what he called it) to retain the water.  I'll look it up on my journal if you wish.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## farmerjan

Bentonite is a type of clay.  It is used to seal the bottom of the pool, pond, etc.  It is also used as a binder in some feed and will bind toxins when used in feed formulations. It actually can be used in some formulas, to help "bind" up a calf that has scours.  It just basically slows down the progress of the manure through their system....think of flour thickening gravy, it will thicken the manure and keep it from "shooting out the back end" when a calf has a bad case of scours. That helps to retain fluids longer, which stops dehydration, which helps to keep the calf from getting too weak, which gives you a chance to maybe get the cause of the scours under control.


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## Bruce

Big excitement today, changed the oil and filter in the Garden Tractor, new air and fuel filter. I don't think I ever got around to changing the summer oil for winter last year and it was pretty dark. Hopefully it will start more happily this winter. 

It was harder than it sounds, the stupid Sears site can't find ANY of the part numbers on the sticker under the hood even though the machine is only 4 years old. Found parts that looked likely at Lowes. 3 were Briggs & Stratton (my engine) but though they had about 6 different B&S air filters none were the size or shape of mine. They did have one in Deere packaging. What do you bet the Deere garden tractors have B&S engines? 

I put the chains on the GT Sunday. Well mostly, I got the left side one on in the tightest chain link position, having trouble (nothing new here) getting the right side to the 2nd link (of 3) so I still need to get that one link tighter (somehow). One of the cross chains was still floppy which seemed odd. I started counting links, EVERY cross chain on both sets except that one have 11 links, that one has 12. Of course I have never noticed this before but I have heard it flopping. Someone/some machine screwed up making it. I had a really thick/wide zip tie (came holding down either the splitter I returned or the flail to the shipping pallet) so I connected link 11 to the fitting that connects to the side chain. No way I could open it up and put link 11 in place.


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## CntryBoy777

Something that may help you out is to look for a B&S certified workshop....they will have parts for all the engines, irregardless of the name brand....


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## AmberLops

That's all greek to me, but sounds like you're getting your tractor all upgraded and ready for another year


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## Bruce

Hmmm, I wonder how I would find one.


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## CntryBoy777

There is one in Colchester.....

http://thesmallenginecoinc.com/stihl-briggs-certified/3295597


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## Bruce

Thanks! I know exactly where that is.


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## Baymule

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Baymule,
> 
> I bet you could do as Mr Greybeard recommended to me to stop my pond from leaking and use Bentonite (I think that is what he called it) to retain the water.  I'll look it up on my journal if you wish.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


A pond is not high on the list right now. There are several companies around here that have the bentonite, it seals ponds right up. The old fashioned way to seal a pond is to use hogs as it fills. Their wallowing seals the pond. Crazy, huh?


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## Bruce

I would think the "soil" makeup would make a big difference on whether hogs rooting would or would not cause it to seal. That sand you, @B&B Happy goats and @CntryBoy777 have doesn't seem like it would hold water no matter how much they "kneaded" it.


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## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> I would think the "soil" makeup would make a big difference on whether hogs rooting would or would not cause it to seal. That sand you, @B&B Happy goats and @CntryBoy777 have doesn't seem like it would hold water no matter how much they "kneaded" it.


You would be very surprised how much water is being held in the sand in our county this time of year.....


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## Bruce

How much does it hold when it isn't raining?


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## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> How much does it hold when it isn't raining?


When we have our dry spells...holds nonthing......rainy season, once saturated , it hold long enough to hatch alot of skeeters


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## Bruce

But not enough to support the fish to eat them! You need some barn and tree swallows


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## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> But not enough to support the fish to eat them! You need some barn and tree swallows


We got some , little darlins go in the goat house and poop on everything and we have had a few get into the back porch and sit in my plants and knock the soil out looking for dinner!


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## Bruce

Curious, I've never seen them on the ground. fence, roofs, wires yes, never on the ground. They fly over the pond and vegetation areas picking off flying things.


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## B&B Happy goats

They are little barn swallows here, even Florida deer are small...makes me laugh when they get excited about deer season here, may as well hunt for a dwarf goat ! 
Nonthing like deer, moose or bears up in new england !


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## Bruce

Too hot to get any bigger!


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## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Too hot to get any bigger!


 TRUE !


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> I would think the "soil" makeup would make a big difference on whether hogs rooting would or would not cause it to seal. That sand you, @B&B Happy goats and @CntryBoy777 have doesn't seem like it would hold water no matter how much they "kneaded" it.


I know it sounds crazy, but it works.


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## HomeOnTheRange

Baymule said:


> The old fashioned way to seal a pond is to use hogs as it fills. Their wallowing seals the pond.


Get a couple of 500 pound Wilburs, that should do the trick!


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## AmberLops

B&B Happy goats said:


> They are little barn swallows here, even Florida deer are small...makes me laugh when they get excited about deer season here, may as well hunt for a dwarf goat !
> Nonthing like deer, moose or bears up in new england !


I was chased by a bull moose once in Maine...the thing had to have been 7 feet at the shoulder. They are so big and so stupid...they're cute from a distance though. The scariest thing is when you're swimming or kayaking and a moose pops up from the middle of the lake.
They can forage for plants on the bottom of lakes and ponds


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## AmberLops

Bruce said:


> Curious, I've never seen them on the ground. fence, roofs, wires yes, never on the ground. They fly over the pond and vegetation areas picking off flying things.


Do you ever get dive-bombed by the swallows? I had a birdhouse once and some swallows made a nest, every time I went around the nest, they'd swoop down and attack me


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## B&B Happy goats

Try snowmobiling  and go around a corner and find a moose standing in front of you  in the trail


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## AmberLops

B&B Happy goats said:


> Try snowmobiling  and go around a corner and find a moose standing in front of you  in the trail


EEK!


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## B&B Happy goats

AmberLops said:


> EEK!


I certainly  don't  miss those  days at all, cold , cold , cold sport !


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## AmberLops

B&B Happy goats said:


> I certainly  don't  miss those  days at all, cold , cold , cold sport !


I'm with you...can't stand the 6 months of freezing weather. I've never been snowmobiling though...it seems like an easy way to get frostbite!


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## Bruce

AmberLops said:


> Do you ever get dive-bombed by the swallows? I had a birdhouse once and some swallows made a nest, every time I went around the nest, they'd swoop down and attack me


Nope. In fact the barn swallows that make their nest in the barn alley just can't understand I'm not going to hurt them, they fly out any time I go in. I really have no choice but to go near the nest since it is on the floor joist right in front of the stall coop, not 6 ' away. I've never gone real close to the tree swallows in the birdhouse on the post out by the pond though. Don't know if they would dive bomb me as a threat.


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## Bruce

Someone (OK some chicken) laid an egg today! First one in 3 weeks when the last of the big girls shut down. At 46 grams it could be either an older one restarting or a good size first egg for a pullet. Since my girls typically DON'T restart after moulting I'm assuming it is a pullet. Maybe a White Rock (Daisy) or a Columbian Wyandotte (Ana or Sophia) based on comb and wattles.


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## Baymule

Congrats on the egg! I love it when pullets first start laying.


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## AmberLops

Congratulations!


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## Bruce

I'm up to 3 now! Two days in a row, Saturday off, early morning (8ish) egg Sunday. Will see if there is a morning egg today. Expecting over 10" of snow today through tomorrow


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## Bruce

Got another egg this morning, probably about 10 AM. And the forecast is up to 12" now.


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## promiseacres

I have a video of the swallows dive bombing us... kids were afraid to do chores for a while this spring....  I will see if I can upload it. 


Bruce said:


> Nope. In fact the barn swallows that make their nest in the barn alley just can't understand I'm not going to hurt them, they fly out any time I go in. I really have no choice but to go near the nest since it is on the floor joist right in front of the stall coop, not 6 ' away. I've never gone real close to the tree swallows in the birdhouse on the post out by the pond though. Don't know if they would dive bomb me as a threat.


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## Baymule

A foot of snow? Awww heck no!! Yay for the eggs! Booo on the foot of snow!


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## Bruce

The not snow gods fought with the snow gods, then they agreed to a truce. We ended up with about 8" instead of 12". Got another egg today, 50 g


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## farmerjan

You can keep it, no offense @Bruce.  I sure don't want it.... and with trying to get things somewhat on a "plan of attack" for getting feeding and such done, I definitely doubly don't want it.  Don't even want this unseasonable cold after the much more normal of low 60's a couple days ago.  Weather is WAY TOO volatile...  and unpredictable.


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## Bruce

Forgot to mention I have a number of birds that think they should be roosting in the feed room or on the alpaca stand. Only 3 tonight, 6 last night. USUALLY it is the pullets though 2 of the 1.5 year olds have done it of late as well.


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## Baymule

I have one free range chicken that refuses to go back in the coop, is uncatchable due to her ability to pop through cow panels, while I must go around, so I let her be. She roosts in the round bale and leaves poop, that doesn't make me happy, but oh well. Other chickens know where home is, she is a maverick. I have to admire that about her. When I feed Sentry the puppy, she hangs around waiting for him to walk away, then she darts in for a bite or 2 or 3. He pounces at her, never on her, she moves away. Rinse and repeat. It is like watching bumbling puppy and hen ballet.


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## Bruce

Al at Lumnah Acres (YouTube) had one of those hens. She was named Crazy White Chicken, CWC. She'd be most anywhere when he came out each morning, not in the coop, not within the electronet, maybe in with the 2 pigs. Sadly, but not surprisingly, a predator got her. Based on the evidence, my guess is fox.

At least if no one remembers to go out and move the stupid birds into the coop (only 1 last night), they are at least in the barn though still at risk given the alpacas' always open door.

Working on putting cedar lining in the small (like 24" square!) closet in our bedroom. It was intentionally not drywalled and I had to put in some nailing surfaces. Got the ceiling done and the top two pieces of the back wall. All had to be coped to the beam (debarked tree) that is a joist for the floor above. The rest of the back wall will be easy, bunch of 22" boards. The top board on the right side also hits the beam so it will take additional work.

Expecting freezing rain and sleet mid-day tomorrow into Tuesday. NOT looking forward to that.  Temp running just below freezing the entire time.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Gosh, Mr. Bruce!  When you have ice instead of snow do you still plow it?  If not, what do you do to make the ice driveable?  Do you use sand or deicer or nothing?


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## rachels.haven

Aw, @Bruce, you getting freezing rain too? I hope you can figure out how to not go out.


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## Bruce

Ice doesn't plow. On the parking area I use ashes from the wood stove and sand if I have it. Freezing rain is a wee bit more tolerable if there is snow on the ground since it tends not to form a solid flat slick surface ... at least if there isn't too much of it.


----------



## Bruce

rachels.haven said:


> Aw, @Bruce, you getting freezing rain too? I hope you can figure out how to not go out.


Gotta go out! Have an appt with the Bowen massage lady at noon and need to do some grocery shopping to fill the shelves/fridge for DW and DD2 - I'm leaving Wed noonish for a visit with family in So. Cal.. Freezing rain doesn't (supposedly) start until around 1 and then only a 14% chance. Of course things can change since last night they were expecting freezing rain starting tomorrow around 5 AM.


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## B&B Happy goats

Be safe Bruce and have a great visit with your family


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## farmerjan

Have a safe trip, don't hang around with too many of the radicals out in Ca.....  you ought to go visit @babsbag.....


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## babsbag

Unfortunately I am at the opposite end of the state otherwise I would look you up.  Have a safe trip


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

You could visit Miss @Ridgetop, who is just north of LA I believe.


----------



## Mini Horses

OK -- I'm late to the party but have to comment anyway.     The backhoe guy, Mike...had some valid points  BUT -- I am like Bruce.  Nothing close to rent, lot of hauling or expense to have hauled (which rental prefer!), no one near with such equipment.   
I keep mine covered  and take it off and on by myself!!!!  I do place cinderblocks and a slice of wood under the frame to keep it up as it does leak down.   Mine works like Bruce explained.   No PTO only hydraulic lines.

I don't have a pond but moved here with a lot of OLD mini horses.  Dug a few by hand, checked prices to hire out, BOUGHT that hoe!!   I can dig & refill without needing Absorbine Jr that night.     Dug my last one by hand at 69.

I have NO issues getting off & on to use it.   It can and will dig a hole for a big horse (small ones, too). Ditches, ponds, etc.  BUT that is far from the only use it has.  I've used mine when fencing & repairing fence....FEL goes up & down, this hoe can go up & over, front to back, right to left plus up & down.   You can hook fence onto it (I use boards & rope), then adjust as needed.   Of course this is once you have laid it out the length you need and are at adjusting & hooking.   I've lifted and moved right & left without moving equipment-- boxes, feeders, whatever.  It just takes thinking it out.    For me, I love mine!  Plus, it is easier to take off & on than the bushhog!   Putting on takes a few more minutes as you DO have to line up...otherwise pretty simple.  


AND -- pigs will seal a pond!  It's amazing.  Like a Beaver makes a dam  It's just something they know how to perfect.


Bruce, hope you have a safe trip and a great visit!


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## farmerjan

Perfect example of @Mini Horses needing and using her backhoe attachment and @Mike CHS  having much more limited use for one therefore the easier to hire the neighbor and there are other perks for doing so.  That is what is so great about sharing ideas and such, everyone gets to hear different pros and cons for different situations.


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Have a safe trip, don't hang around with too many of the radicals out in Ca.....  you ought to go visit @babsbag.....


As she said, she is WAY up north of where I am going. My oldest cousin lives 10 miles north of her in Redding, there is potential they met when she went to the ER. Of course I don't know what her work schedule is. 

Thanks for the safe travel wishes all!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

I stumbled across this video of a guy in southern New Hampshire and wondered if you have ever faced something like this:





Senile Texas Aggie


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## babsbag

@Bruce, it would also depend on what hospital I was at.  I was at Shasta Regional. I told them Mercy but the ambulance got redirected to the other one due to some major accident that was taking over the ER at Mercy.


----------



## Mini Horses

A snow like that would shut our entire area down for at least a week!!

Last blizzard we had like that was last week of December 2000 or 2001, couple days after Christmas.   14" and drifts up to 2'.   Everyone with a tractor was out trying to help clear roads and driveways.  A neighbor did mine.      Got about 8" maybe 10 yr ago.

Normally 3" is a lot here.   LOL...last 2 winters, less than 1".   But we do get cold -- Jan/Feb mostly.


----------



## WolfeMomma

We have had that here, Its crazy to deal with. we use the snow blower and the atv plow.


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> I stumbled across this video of a guy in southern New Hampshire and wondered if you have ever faced something like this:


Not when I had a machine to move it with. We did have 28" in 12 hours on Valentines Day some years ago. 



babsbag said:


> @Bruce, it would also depend on what hospital I was at.  I was at Shasta Regional. I told them Mercy but the ambulance got redirected to the other one due to some major accident that was taking over the ER at Mercy.


Hmmm, I don't recall which one she works at! OK, I did a Google search, she's a Shasta Regional. If you saw a female doctor it could have been her. If her name was Dr. Alvarez, it WAS her


----------



## babsbag

No female doctor. I actually only saw a doctor for a few minutes as they were sending me home.


----------



## Bruce

Made it to So. Cal. on Wednesday, got to the Grand Canyon just before dark today.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange




----------



## B&B Happy goats




----------



## MiniGoatsRule




----------



## MiniGoatsRule

Maybe I'm too overexcited about things going good, ending up good, or randomly having something nice occur...? I think I am, I used the sacred bunny even


----------



## farmerjan

Hope you are enjoying the trip and take some awesome pictures to share.


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## Bruce

Most are on the real camera but I took some with the phone so I could post them


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I hope you are having a great time Bruce


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## Baymule

Have a good time and take lots of pictures!


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## farmerjan

That's on my "bucket list" if I can get these joints to where I can walk..... Beautiful picture......


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## Wehner Homestead

I’m caught up! Enjoy your trip @Bruce !


----------



## MiniGoatsRule

@Bruce, have a great time on your trip, post lots of cool pictures if you can! I'm sure it is awesome to be there.


----------



## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> I’m caught up! Enjoy your trip @Bruce !


So glad to see you back, I have been worried about you.

Back from the canyon Sunday evening, rest day Monday. Dad, sister and I drove up to Oxnard to have lunch with the lady who was his office manager for about 30 years. 88 miles, took 2.5 hours to get there, over 3 to get back.

Started yesterday with a checkup visit to Dad's doctor. Left for the 100 mile trip to San Diego at 12:45 arrived at 4. Step sister & her DH had a tenth anniversary dinner cruise for about 90 people. T-day with 20 at their condo at the beach (yeah they have money) this afternoon then back to Fullerton tonight. Traffic will again suck. 

Any guesses as to one of the reasons I left here 40 years ago? This was on the way to Oxnard in the HOV lane, it doesn't really capture the traffic.


----------



## farmerjan

All I can say is you were a better person than me to be there at all..... I get a case of the nerves in Raleigh-Durham, NC and it is like 4-5 lanes wide each side.... and they are moving......Guess that's better than wall to wall creeping, stopped traffic.  Hope you have enjoyed the visit with the relatives.


----------



## thistlebloom

It's a good place to be _from._
Dad moved us down to San Diego for work and it took me 40 years to escape and come back home. 
Glad you are getting to see family though.


----------



## Bruce

There was NO congested traffic on the way home! The 100 miles that took 3 hours 15 minutes yesterday took only 1 hour 45 minutes today


----------



## babsbag

Traffic in CA stinks most everywhere.  Up in my neck of the woods it isn't bad unless there is an accident or SNOW.  Tuesday we got snow and the major pass into OR was closed in both directions and people and big rigs were stuck ALL NIGHT and most of the next day. What a major mess. We all had warning that this was coming but people thought that they could outrun Mother Nature and it didn't work. The two major highways east and west of Redding were closed too and there were accidents everywhere. Good way to start the holiday week.


----------



## Bruce

And according to my Uncle my 2 female cousins (the ER doctor from Redding and the other who lives in Upland) were camping with their kids (2 High schoolers, 2 in college) in Sequoia NP Tuesday when the predictions were for lows around 8°F and anywhere from 1-3' of snow the following days! Will see them (at least the local cousin, don't know about the Redding residents) today (going to Upland where aunt, uncle & 2 cousins live) and find out if they were really out in all that.

Had lunch in San Clemente with Dad, older sister, younger sister, her husband and older daughter yesterday.


----------



## Ridgetop

Bruce - if you are still in California, come see us!  We are outside L.A. in the San Fernando Valley.


----------



## Bruce

Sorry Ridge, not in the schedule but thanks very much for the invitation.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

I hope you made it home safely!


----------



## Bruce

I did! Since I don't have much to post very often, here is the "short" version of my entire trip:


Drove to in-law's Wed 2 weeks ago, MIL took me to the airport, I flew to So. Cal. arriving about 9 PM.
Spent Thursday in Fullerton (South of LA) hanging with Dad. 
Went to the Grand Canyon Fri - Sun (2 of those days were pure driving) with older sister, niece and her dog. Bought dinner for niece and sister (66th Bday) Saturday night. Nice restaurant at the park.
Rested up on Monday with Dad, did laundry. 
Went to Dad's office manager's in Oxnard (north of L.A.) on Tuesday with Dad and older sister. She worked for him for about 35 years, both retired when he sold the business 20+ years ago. 88 miles took 2+ hours going up, 3+ coming home.
Found a florist in St. Albans (love the Google!) and sent flowers to DW, 29th anniversary the following Sunday. Flowers mostly still look pretty good 2 weeks later.
Drove to San Diego Wednesday with Dad; older sister, niece and nephew drove down from Huntington Beach. 100 miles, took over 3 hours. Went to older sister and her DH's 10th anniversary party that night (dinner on a tour boat in the harbor, they have money). 
Had T-Day at step sister's. Got to see younger (of the 2, still 3 weeks older than me) step sister, her DH, son his wife and the 5 month old baby both days  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Thankfully no real traffic on the way back north, only 1H 45M.
Went down to San Clemente on Friday with Dad and older sister to have lunch with younger sister, her DH and the older niece. The younger one now lives up in the Bay area. Got a massage from nephew in the afternoon, paid him this time since my free one was last year when he was just finishing up his education/training.
Went out to Upland to Aunt and Uncle's on Saturday then to dinner at Centro Basco in Chino. It has been there since 16 years before I was born. Got to see 3 of the 4 cousins, their spouses and kids 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 . Found out the youngest cousin got married, he lives in Hawaii now. Always has been sort of a loose footed guy, never seems to have any direction. I didn't think to ask what he was doing for work now. He's 47, wife apparently about 20 years younger. I gather her parents weren't overjoyed.
Hung with Dad and did laundry Sunday then went to a restaurant near older sister's to celebrate her birthday with Dad and nephew present since they weren't at the GC the prior weekend. 
Hung with Dad on Monday, we needed the rest! 
Hung out in the morning Tuesday, Sister, niece and nephew came over mid afternoon. We played card games then went to a local Mexican restaurant. Dad took me to the airport from there. Plane 1H 10M delayed, left at 10:10 PM. Got to JFK, gate 4,  next plane delayed but at gate 1 so no distance to walk ... until they changed it to gate 29. Meaning hiking all the way down one arm, past the food "court" and all the way down the other arm. Plenty of time though.
MIL picked me up at the airport and took me back to their place. Drove to Lowes and picked up two 10 year, no battery to replace, smoke/CO detectors to replace the hardwired ones in the downstairs bedroom and "hall". Janet had told me the one in the bedroom kept beeping it needed a new battery but that didn't fix it so she had turned off the breaker the hardwired alarms are on ... which also happens to control ALL the lights in the kitchen, the stove hood, the "hall" light and the lights by the mirror in the bathroom.
Stopped at 2 grocery stores (picked up dinner at the health food store), then Costco to get a new pair of gloves as I managed to lose one in CA somehow, then a 3rd grocery store. 
Got home, pulled out the hardwired alarms, replaced them with the new battery ones. That leaves only the one in the crawl space near the propane furnace since I previously replaced the 2 upstairs ones some months ago. Couldn't reach those to change the batteries even standing on a chair. What a STUPID REQUIREMENT the electricians have to follow!! They must have batteries in case the power goes out but drain the batteries when testing to see if they still have "juice" so you have to change the batteries. And WHY do they need to have batteries? In case the power goes off they will still work. Which is how the battery only ones work anyway. Plus if one alarms they ALL alarm so you don't even know which way to run. STUPID STUPID STUPID! Started the wood stove back up since DD2 hadn't kept it running. She did take care of feeding the chickens and alpacas. Her lift attendant job at the mountain started today.
Ate dinner, went to bed 33.5 real hours after I woke up on Tuesday, I don't sleep on planes because if I do I feel like crap for many hours. 
Didn't do much Thursday, nor Friday. Did take the car Friday for its 10K service and put the final few cedar boards in the little closet in our bedroom. Still need to put a bit of moulding on the floor and put up shelves. Door casing and door will be done later but DW will be able to fill the shelves. The interior is only 22" wide and 17" deep. There is a similar (drywalled) closet on the back side of this one in the bathroom.


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## Baymule

Your dance card sure was filled up! I'm glad you had a good time and was able to spend time with your Dad and family.


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## farmerjan

Sounds like it was a full, but good trip.  I'll bet you finally collapsed when you got home and got those other chores done.


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## frustratedearthmother

Whew.....


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Thanks, Mr. Bruce, for a description of your trip.  Sounds like you were quite busy!  Glad you were able to see so many family members.  Belated Happy Anniversary to you and DW.


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## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Sounds like it was a full, but good trip.  I'll bet you finally collapsed when you got home and got those other chores done.


Pretty much! Went to bed at 8:30 Wed, close to 3 hours earlier than usual. Had to be up to get the trash and recycles out by 7 AM. Breakfast and some attempt at forum catch up, took a 2 hour nap starting at 9 AM.


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## Bruce

Stupid stupid chickens!!!!! Yesterday I saw Aurora (Austra White) scratching around in the center open nest box, no egg later in the day though. Big comb (and mouth), squatting, ready to lay. Sophia (Columbian Wyandotte) laid in the closed box this morning. 

Mid afternoon there was a lot of racket so I checked the nest boxes again, nothing. Aurora had come from the north end of the alley so I checked the hay room since Little Lana had laid a ton of eggs there last summer before she disappeared that one morning. Nope, no eggs. 

3 PM I gave the girls their scratch and the boys their pellets. Before doing the boys (I can do that from the chickens' side of the gate) I decided to go through the gate and get them a bit more hay in the half full wall feeders even though the snow totally melted between yesterday and today. I grabbed some hay and dropped some in the left feeder then the right. As it dropped in the right side one my eye BARELY caught a flash of white. I pulled the hay back out and found not only the first (that I KNOW of) whitish egg from Aurora but also an egg from Daisy (White Rock). WTH????? Daisy has been laying in the closed box for a month!

I put some hay in the middle open box in case Aurora just thinks hay is a better place to lay than pine shavings. Hopefully she will get the hint. I REALLY don't want to play egg hunt several times a day all winter, not in the summer either!


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## Baymule

The Australorps dug tunnels in the round bales. As I groped around in the hay I sure was hoping I wouldn't grab a snake.


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## Bruce

At least mine are "kind" enough to lay their eggs on top of the hay!


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## Bruce

Went out at 8 after putting the trash and recycle bins out at the road. Aurora was already in the wall feeder!!!!! And Daisy looked like she planned to jump right in there with her.  I took Aurora out and put her in the nest in th coop with the hay. She turned right around and headed back to the wall feeder  I moved her again, she came right back out. So I closed the auto door, went and fetched her AGAIN and put her back in the coop. She escaped before I could get the door unhooked to close it. Spent a fair bit of time chasing her around, finally caught her (all chickens going nuts of course) and put her in the closed nest box from the outside. Then went on the hunt for Daisy which again resulted in a bunch of whacked out hens. Most of them went in the "spare coop". I got all of them out but Daisy, FINALLY caught her and put her in the coop as well. No escape, those eggs HAVE to come out.

Went back out at 11:30. 2 eggs in the closed box and Sophia was in the danged wall feeder! Likely because she was locked out of the coop (at least I hope so). I moved her to the closed box and she stayed. I let the other 2 out of the coop. 

Sure hope Aurora gives up on the wall feeder "nest" idea. I guess I'll have to spend a lot of time going out to the barn to shortcut her from laying there again.


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## Beekissed

If I find a nest outside that the dog and predators can't reach, I usually leave it alone and just collect eggs from there.   Cuts down on all the nest blocking and having to retrain them if they have an outside nest that's safe but also provides their natural want for a hidden nest.   It's also better to have a nest you know about then to block it and have them locate another one you CAN'T find.  

But, then, you don't want to have eggs floating around in your hay feeder, do you?   They tend to filter down into the hay in those situations and you don't find them~if you ever do~until they've been in that hay for quite some time.  

Right now I'm placing a small roll of scrap wire on top of my hay bunker so the chickens can't establish a nest there.


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## Bruce

I finally got to the "leave it be" method when Yuki was on her 5th outside nest of the season a few years ago. At least that one was relatively accessible and by the pond out back rather than right by the road. She kept with that nest after the alpacas arrived (when no other chicken would go out back anymore) until she stopped laying for the year. She went back to the cat box nest in the feed room the following year and stuck with that until the fox got her last May. 

No eggs and no hens in the hay feeder at 9 AM. I put a board over each of the feeders. One would ASSUME they won't lay on a flat board. HOPEFULLY they will think the nests in the coop are acceptable as a second choice.


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## Bruce

The boards seem to have worked. All 3 laid in the enclosed box in the coop   
Hopefully they will keep that up FOREVER!


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## Bruce

Finished up the cedar in the little closet, made, urethaned and installed shoe molding, installed the shelves. Now DW can fill them with sweaters or whatever. Fitting the 1/4" T&G cedar in the ceiling, the top 2 back wall and top side wall boards around the joist (debarked log flattened on the top) wasn't all that much fun.


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## Mike CHS

That looks great and should make her happy.


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## Baymule

Beautiful closet!


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## Bruce

Thanks. I have a ton of stuff to do, mostly door and window trim. Too much to do outside in the summer and too cold out in the barn in the winter. Next project is tile in the entryway/mudroom (it is only 6.5' x 9.5') but that will have to wait until DD1 goes back to school in early January, she is arriving home in a few hours. Can't be running power tools in the house when she is around.


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## thistlebloom

What kind of tile are you using? DH is a tile and stone man. He wishes it were not so, lol, but that's what he did to put himself through college and it kind of stuck.
Tile is lovely on the floors. We have it throughout the house and it is so easy to maintain.


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## Baymule

How is DD1 doing and is she liking school?


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## Bruce

Seems like there are problems in the dorms, wasn't an issue last semester (her first) and with the food service. Apparently the lady that runs the place (contracted out by the school) is retiring about the time school starts back up in January. She's taken good care of DD and all the other people with dietary restrictions. DD is a bit concerned that the next most senior person will get the job and he's proven to be less than adequate in that regard. Hopefully one of the other 2 candidates for the job will get it. She and 3 friends are renting a furnished 4 bedroom house starting May 1 so those issues will go away.



thistlebloom said:


> What kind of tile are you using?


Um, specifically?? Something from an Italian company called Isla based on the box, approx 7 3/4" x 15 3/4". It is not a repeating patterned so no issue trying the follow the "plan". It is basically gray and white with a somewhat rough surface for "non slip". I need to rent a water saw to cut it.


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## Baymule

When our daughter was in college, she got in a dorm that had a kitchen in it. She did NOT like the food plan crap they made us pay for. So she told the other kids that if they bought the food, she would cook it--and help them eat it. Since those kids didn't know much about the real world and could not cook anything past a bowl of cereal, she ate very well.


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## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> approx 7 3/4" x 15 3/4". It is not a repeating patterned so no issue trying the follow the "plan". It is basically gray and white with a somewhat rough surface for "non slip".



That's a big tile, should look real nice. Sorry for the nosy question, I see a lot of tile, and hear about every step of my husbands work days. Back before we had kids I would work with him as a gofer if I was free. Actually I guess I was always "free" haha. 
Now and then he'd buy me a candy bar.


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## Bruce

Boy, you work CHEAP! I'll take pictures.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir!

I saw the weather forecast earlier today for your area.  It seems that you, Miss @RollingAcres, Miss @rachels.haven, and Miss @misfitmorgan will be getting a big wallop of winter weather.  This for you folks:





Let us know how you make it through the nastiness.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## rachels.haven

We got about 6" of soggy, heavy, sleet ball snow Sunday into this morning. We're pretty much dug out. Darn slushy winter.


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## Bruce

We had sleet and freezing rain yesterday. Wasn't really all that bad since other than the 3/4 mile of dirt road we live on the roads were salted and not slippery. Took it easy on our road. DD2 was at her midstation position at the ski area, said it was sleet and freezing rain all day there too. Given the direction the high winds were coming from, one of the other "mostly bunny trails" lifts was shut down so her lift was extra busy. DW didn't have any trouble on her 35 mile one way commute either. Happy enough to be following a plow on the 50 MPH road at 30 MPH, she left plenty of time to get to work.


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## Baymule

When will your wife retire so she doesn't have to commute in the snow anymore?


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## Bruce

Don't know. She's only been a permanent PO employee since 2015 so I don't know when she is even retirement eligible. She'll be 58 on Sunday.


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## misfitmorgan

Weather here wasn't bad. We got 1-2" of snow overnight/ early morning, then we got rain from about 7.30am until 11am then we got hail for about 10 minutes then it went to sunshine then an almost blizzard with no real accumulation around 2pm and everything stopped by 3.30pm. Most any snow that hit the ground was gone by 4pm. Todays high is 41F  I am loving this warmer winter.


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Don't know. She's only been a permanent PO employee since 2015 so I don't know when she is even retirement eligible. She'll be 58 on Sunday.


She has a few years to go then. I know she has your support and from what you post, you are pretty good at helping to lighten her chores around the house.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Don't know. She's only been a permanent PO employee since 2015 so I don't know when she is even retirement eligible. She'll be 58 on Sunday.



I think it's 10yrs for PO which would be good cause she should be eligable for retirement at the same time as she could start her pension from the PO.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> She has a few years to go then. I know she has your support and from what you post, you are pretty good at helping to lighten her chores around the house.


True, her only "permanent" household task is laundry. Given she's got nearly an hour drive to work and again to get home and works 5 full days and one half day a week, she doesn't really have a lot of extra time other than unwinding.



misfitmorgan said:


> Weather here wasn't bad.


You must have felt like you were living in a snow globe!


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> True, her only "permanent" household task is laundry. Given she's got nearly an hour drive to work and again to get home and works 5 full days and one half day a week, she doesn't really have a lot of extra time other than unwinding.
> 
> 
> You must have felt like you were living in a snow globe!


  yes a bit


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## Baymule

When we both worked and even now, BJ has almost always cleaned the kitchen after I cooked supper. Our joke is that I mess it up, he cleans it up. Since we retired, he has taken over loading and unloading the dishwasher and I can even find things most of the time! LOL 

Your wife works long hours and I admire you for pitching in to do your part and hers too.


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## Bruce

I used to do all the cooking AND cleaning up (which included cleaning up so I COULD cook. This back even when DW wasn't working from late 2006 to late 2013). Got sick of that and made a rule: the one who cooks doesn't have to do clean up after. 

Now we make DD2 do cleanup, it is about all she does around the house anyway. I still do all the cooking unless DD1 is home and feels like making something related to her dietary requirement. Her stuff is more "interesting" than my basic "meat and potatoes" style but takes a lot longer and creates a lot more preparation dishes/bowls/utensils.


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## Bruce

I got 10 eggs from the girls today! 4 were from the older girls, 1 from 2015, 1 from 2017 and 2 from 2018. I'm not complaining but I sure am surprised by those girls laying at this time of year.


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## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> 1 from 2015, 1 from 2017 and 2 from 2018



Those are some old eggs!


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## Bruce

Today's "fun", time to move another rack of cord wood (1 run equivalent, pretty much every other Sunday) onto the porch landing. Tractor didn't want to start, gauges all fine but only a click when I turned the key to start. It ran fine a week or so back. I'm thinking of @Senile_Texas_Aggie and his recent neutral safety switch. I have no idea where that would be and actually I don't think I have one because it is hydrostatic, the transmission lever can be in any of the LNMNH positions and it will start. I must have the clutch in for it to start  so maybe there is a switch somewhere for that. No idea where to find that either. The only other things I can think of is the battery, seat safety switch or a fuse. 

First thought battery, opened the hood, got out the meter, 12.5V so fine. I get out the manual to see where the fuses are. I pull and check a few that MIGHT, MAYBE somehow be related. Check them with the meter, all fine. Start looking in the manual to see if there is a "what to do if" section. Of course not, it isn't very complete manual and doesn't even mention the clutch or seat switches. I happen to see the start up instruction steps. One is to make sure the PTO lever is off. I look at it, it is half way forward. I pushed it all the way back, tractor started fine. I must have caught it getting off the tractor last time. I know I OFTEN catch the light and turn signal switches, that unit needs a cover for klutzes like me!

Not worthy of a Zinger™ award but time consuming and frustrating. Checked the oil when I had the hood up and got the wood rack moved.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Good catch on the PTO engagement safety switch.  When my tractor won't crank/start, but the dashboard lights up with the key on the "ON" position, I immediately suspect a safety switch.  Here are the safety switches that I know about for my tractor: PTO engagement switch, seat occupant switch, neutral safety switch, and one more that doesn't come to mind (I'll remember it once I post ). Only after I have checked all of those do I then check for other issues. But it was smart of you to figure it out. 

Mr. @Bruce, I think you should start a YouTube channel, showing you cutting firewood, mowing your pasture, taking care of your chickens and alpacas, etc.  I would definitely subscribe!


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## Bruce

Given how little I have to post here that would be a REALLY boring, unwatched and forgotten channel! Some of the channels I watch post videos 4-6 (sometimes 7) times a WEEK!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

I bet it would be an interesting channel.  Even if you only posted once a week, I would still watch it.  The channel North Texas Hay hasn't posted a new video in 5 months -- I have a feeling they are getting ready to sell the farm -- but I still check every day.


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## Bruce

Not much happening here even weekly!


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## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> Not much happening here even weekly!



That is the way it here now that we are more into maintenance mode.  There is a lot of days that I don't post at all but I still like to read a lot of threads.  There is still a lot of things to do but it is about identical from one day to the next.


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## Bruce

Yep. Today's YouTube video would have been super exciting:

Get the fire in the wood stove going again, add water to the pot on top
Feed the cats, clean the litter box, feed the aquarium fish
Make breakfast for DD2 and myself (omelettes today)
Feed and water the barn animals, including forking out alpaca poop  Collect eggs (5 today, one hen in the nest when I left)
Brush snow off the solar panels
Shovel a path down to the parking area and around the car, brush snow off in the car in the process
Shovel a path from the house down to the gate to the barns
Carry 1 bag of chicken feed from the car to barn and dump it into the 10 gallon can; take the plastic sled up to the car to bring the other bag down to the barn
Bring 2 carriers of firewood from the porch landing into the house
Read and post here
This afternoon I'm going to get a couple of things from TSC and the big grocery store
Probably fire up the tractor (with PTO lever ALL the way back!) and push some snow around.
Snack the barn animals around 3
Go out about 4:30 and move wayward chickens into the coop.
Make lasagna for dinner
Read and post on forums
Watch followed YouTube channels
Go to bed
The first four are daily of course (well DD only gets breakfast made on Tue and Fri, her days off work) as are the last 3. Yep, I can see people lining up around the world to watch that!


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## thistlebloom

You got my attention at make omelettes for breakfast and lasagna for dinner. 
Hey, maybe you could do a combo farm and cooking YouTube? 
Curious, why do you carry one bag of feed and slide the other? 🤔
See how interesting your day is?  

My excitement today will be going to the grocery and making dinner. Kid#2 comes over on Tuesdays to hang out and get a free meal, lol. Nothing going on outside for me because of the wretched rain.


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## Bruce

Because I was up at the car and too lazy to go down to the barn to get the sled and return for the first bag! But since I had to go up for the second bag, might as well take the sled and make bag 2 a bit easier. Probably shouldn't do that, carrying 50 pound bags of feed should help me keep fit I suppose.


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## thistlebloom

Yes, you should lift something heavy every day supposedly. My heavy lifting yesterday was a bag of traction sand I added to the other two in the bed of the little truck. Since it was wet it weighed more than the 60 lbs. it had printed on the bag. It wasn't a smart thing to do, but once I picked it up I was comitted and wobbled my way over to dump it.
Dh had removed it because it was in his way. He'll thank me later. That truck is just 2wd and hopeless in snow without a couple hundred pounds in the back.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

I don’t plan to move stuff...but it seems like I always do...oh, and climbing!  I’m always climbing up my ladders in the barn and the shelves in the feed room!  I always did want to rock cllimb!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

thistlebloom said:


> Hey, maybe you could do a combo farm and cooking YouTube?



That's a great idea, Miss @thistlebloom!  Mr. @Bruce, sir, the list of items you made above sounded interesting to me.  I would watch it every time!


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## Bruce

Boy do YOU need a life STA!!! Wait, you have one, you get to do outside work all year long.
Did go to TSC. Stopped first at the farm and garden store to pay for the bag of cat food I brought home yesterday but they forgot to charge me for. She was a bit surprised and said "Boy are you honest". Um, yeah.

Got TSC, picked up a couple of hair clip pins since I pins since I managed to lose BOTH of the ones holding the lower links on the 3pt while "logging" last week. Amazingly I happened to see one of them sticking out of the mud quite some time after I noticed they were missing. Didn't know that is where I lost them, just noticed they weren't there when hitching up a log to the draw bar. Got a 1/2" hitch pin to use when pulling. I was going to get a shackle but I don't think there would be enough sticking out the back to hook the logging chain to.  I figure I can hook the chain around the hitch pin lifted up a bit. Also got a bag of PDZ, MAYBE if I spread that stuff where the stupid alpacas poop inside they will decide to go out? Long shot I know. Went to pay, flung the PDZ on the counter, she scanned it and asked for my Neighborhood number (phone), then told me how much I owed. I asked about the hitch pin and hairpins. Oops she hadn't noticed those, said I was honest. Um, yeah.

On the way home witnessed a car pull out of a side street and hit a pickup in the side. Truly amazing, it isn't like there were cars parked that would block their view. Got home and decided I better get the tractor running to move snow when I figured out I'd have better luck backing in the way I came out rather than going in the other entrance as I usually do. Lots of snow in that path. Got it cleared out in time for a predicted 1.5" tomorrow. Of course last night was supposed to be a trace and it was 4".


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## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> That is the way it here now that we are more into maintenance mode.  There is a lot of days that I don't post at all but I still like to read a lot of threads.  There is still a lot of things to do but it is about identical from one day to the next.


I would like to hit maintenance mode, but we aren't there yet. We have done some pretty intense maintenance in the sheep barn and garden lately. Poor BJ is worn out, his knee is swollen, his fingers hurt and he needs a day off. I wanted to dig out bedding hay from the two pens that have a small space in the barn, but he would want to come help, so I told him that I'll work the sheep today. It's supposed to be rainy Friday and Saturday, so I'll run my samples then. It takes longer for me to do it by myself, but that's ok.   He can rest today and rainy days make us both take a rest. LOL He took most of the day off yesterday too. I have to stop beating him up with shovels, rakes, pitchforks and other instruments of torture.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> picked up a couple of hair clip pins since I pins since I managed to lose BOTH of the ones holding the lower links on the 3pt while "logging" last week. Amazingly I happened to see one of them sticking out of the mud quite some time after I noticed they were missing.



I seem to lose the pins regularly, so I recently bought a bag of the hairpins and a bag of the linch pins that keep the lower arms on the 3-pt hitch attached to implements.  The bag of linch pins came in handy recently when I went to pick up the tractor at the shop.  I had bent a linch pin (the circular part) for my trailer that keeps one of the ramps in its carrying slot while offloading the tractor for the power steering repair.  I decided to use it any way, as it seemed to work OK.  On the trip to pick up the tractor after the repair was completed, as I rounded a curve to the right, I heard the ramp come sliding out of the carrying slot and go flying across the road into the ditch on the other side!  Thank goodness there was no oncoming traffic or it could have been ugly!  When I got to the shop and loaded up the tractor, I got out a new pin from the bag on the tractor and secured the ramp in the carrying slot.



Bruce said:


> Got home and decided I better get the tractor running to move snow when I figured out I'd have better luck backing in the way I came out rather than going in the other entrance as I usually do.



You could make a video out of that!  GP Outdoors, Lumnah Acres, and others have snow clearing videos and I bet yours would be more interesting.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Especially when I backed into DD2's car with the flail! Yep, I can see it now, camera set up to the side to fill and everyone yelling at their computer Stop! STOP!!!! I TOLD you to stop!


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## Mike CHS

Baymule said:


> I would like to hit maintenance mode, but we aren't there yet.



We found it a whole lot easier when we quit trying to use shelters for the sheep,  We have them available as you saw but we let them do their thing out in the pastures.  I still have a lot of work to do but it's on my schedule.


----------



## Bruce

Not too much excitement around here. I thought it was cold enough to go up the trail into the woods to get the limbs from the trees I cut a few weeks back. These were small enough that I could drag them by hand into a pile at the edge of the trail. Ran through open water between the cistern in the field and the natural wetland 100' north of it. Then I got to the woods and drove the tractor up the trail. Squishy with water running down the track even though it was below freezing  It took several attempts at chaining them all together and dragging, rechaining and dragging, etc before I got them out to the field. I didn't want to make multiple trips up the soggy rutted trail. I then got them all on the forks and took them back to the pile by the barn. Given the squishy conditions I didn't go back down to cut and retrieve the big pieces that I left in the field when I cut the trees down. I did cut the 2 trees I had dragged up before down to 8' lengths and stick them in the pile.

6" of snow expected tomorrow then lows below 0°F Friday and Saturday. High Sunday just below freezing at 10 AM then a steady drop Monday to a low of 1°F Tuesday at 7AM. I guess winter is here, unfortunately even if all that cold freezes the ground out in the fields, the snow will make it so I can't run the tractor down there. No chains. I'm sure I could make it down, coming back up the hill is the question.


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## Baymule

We had temps in the 70's today. We are running the air conditioner! Last January 16, we got 3" of show!


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## Mike CHS

It was 72 today and we have a high of 40 tomorrow.  My poor grass is confused about whether to grow or not.


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## Baymule

My grass has done nothing, but we got 3 1/2" of rain last weekend, so it is already shooting up.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> We had temps in the 70's today. We are running the air conditioner! Last January 16, we got 3" of show!


Hey, it is January 16th and WE have 3" of snow!! Maybe 3 more coming today and 3 more Sat/Sun. Given the temps the next 6 days (at least), isn't going anywhere other than where I push it. Other than to the barn, I'm not going anywhere either.  Unfortunately for DW and DD2, they have to go to work. Glad the commute to my "work" is only 100'.


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## Baymule

Today is January 16 and while raining, high today is in the 50's. January is weirdly warm, but we still have February, it might get colder. We'll have to put away the shorts, flip flops and T-shirts for a few weeks.


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## thistlebloom

Baymule said:


> Today is January 16 and while raining, high today is in the 50's. January is weirdly warm, but we still have February, it might get colder. We'll have to put away the shorts, flip flops and T-shirts for a few weeks.



Get out your winter wear! Toe socks, long sleeved T's and a hoody for those really cold days! Lol.


----------



## Baymule

I went out in the rain to feed animals. I put on flannel lined jeans, not for warmth, but to keep me dry. I put on a denim shirt and a sweat hoodie, again, to keep me dry. Then I came in, changed clothes and the wet articles are draped over barstools. LOL


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> the wet articles are draped over barstools.


Had too much of Grandma Wall's full strength eggnog??

January has been weirdly warm here too, it usually never goes above freezing in January and the first 3 weeks of February except for the approximately 24 hour "January thaw". That, of course, is the high for the day, average low is around 10°F. Of course that is the AVERAGE and sub 0°F temperatures are quite common in Jan and Feb.


----------



## thistlebloom

Our winter has been warm also. The promised sub zero temps never happened. Got a few nights in the teens this week, or last, but it's hanging around in the 20's and warming up soon to the mid to high 30's with more rain. Rain and snow are a bad mix.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

OK, Mr @Bruce, I am having trouble finding your YouTube videos showing you clearing the snow from your driveway and around your property.  Where are they?


----------



## Bruce

In your mind my friend! Look inward.


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## Baymule

Yeah, that’s where my snow clearing videos are too!


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## thistlebloom

Baymule said:


> Yeah, that’s where my snow clearing videos are too!



That's where I watch them. In the comedy section. 😂


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## Bruce

No real excitement but I figured I should post here occasionally. Went for a snowshoe trek, a little under 1/2 mile around the fields with DW this morning. Saw a TON of snow fleas/springtails. Tiny black spots that jump if you are looking at the right time. No idea why the descriptions say they are called snow fleas since a) they aren't insects and b) they don't look a THING like a dog/cat flea even though the description says they look like fleas. Springtail makes more sense.

Snow flea article at the Farmer's Almanac.


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## Baymule

Yes you need to post here once in awhile. The rest of the time you are the Grand PooBah Ambassador of Wise Cracks, Encouragement and Good Will. I think we’ll keep you!


----------



## Bruce

Got a good 18" of snow last Friday, more on that later but I wanted to post these 2 pictures. I called @CntryBoy777 on his birthday and see what I got in return!








Now if y'all had called him, you might have gotten a gift as well 

OK, for real, they came with a nice thank you note for helping them move last year. Mrs @CntryBoy777 embroidered the pillowcases. I am grateful for their thoughtfulness and friendship.


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## Baymule

Those are beautiful, I know you will treasure those!


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## thistlebloom

Very sweet! If you give me his number I'll tell him happy birthday too!


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## Bruce

OK, specifically for @Senile_Texas_Aggie I did a couple of videos (hope they come out) of (static) snow. Unfortunately it was a weird misty snowy day, no blue sky and sun so a serious lack of contrast.

From the front door around the street side and a view of the barns.





To the barn and back





I came to realize yesterday that I won't be getting to that last rack of wood in front of the house any time soon. The pallet forks are on the barn side of all the empty racks and there is way more snow than I'm going to shovel between the barn and the forks. I have to run parallel down near the barn then turn uphill to get to the forks. The tractor isn't going to do anything on a snowy (even if mostly shoveled) side hill other than want to slide down into the barn. At least I had this epiphany BEFORE I needed to try it.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Thank you, Mr. @Bruce!  Wow, you have a lot of snow!  Do you have enough wood to last through the winter (or perhaps till the next snow melt) before you need to get to the pallet forks?


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## thistlebloom

Do you hand shovel all your paths? That's good exercise but a snowblower is faster  . I love your big red barn!


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## Bruce

thistlebloom said:


> Do you hand shovel all your paths? That's good exercise but a snowblower is faster  . I love your big red barn!


Down to the barn and to the parking area yes, around the front where that big pile of snow and the remaining wood rack are were done with the tractor. I had to go around the wood rack to get to the fuel oil fill pipe THINKING I was out of oil. The gauge said 1/2 but I didn't trust it since the furnace wasn't running. Turns out it only took 92 gallons to fill the 275 gallon tank which means the gauge WAS wrong but the other way which is why I THOUGHT I was correct about it being empty because it didn't "thump" differently as I went down from the midpoint.  Turns out all I really had to do was hit the restart button on the burner, no idea why it tripped. 

I have a 50" snowblower on the garden tractor but the winch is broken. It broke at the end of last winter and I THOUGHT I had it repaired but it broke again as soon as I put the blower on and tested lifting it. I guess I need someone to do some welding. There is a fair bit of disassembly required to get the mounting bracket off the front of the GT

In the past I have used the GT to blow down behind the barns though it is a bit of a pain. NO WAY it is backing up the hill so I have to make a good size cul-de-sac on the other side of the pipe gate. And of course since the blower is not much wider than the GT wheels, once a front wheel hits snow it gets stuck so there is a lot of forward and backward "chewing" to make the cul-de-sac big enough to turn the GT around to go back up through the gates. If I didn't have the real tractor I would have done something about the winch since I'm sure not going to shovel the entire parking area though it would have been REALLY slow going in 18" of snow with the blower. And it doesn't take much snow for the GT to get stuck even with chains on the rear wheels and an additional 50# weight on the back. And if there is ice on the hill?  no differential lock and the chains polish the ice rather than moving the tractor.



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Thank you, Mr. @Bruce!  Wow, you have a lot of snow!  Do you have enough wood to last through the winter (or perhaps till the next snow melt) before you need to get to the pallet forks?


Who knows when it will all melt?? It was -8°F this morning and will be at least that cold tomorrow morning. It MIGHT make 0°F for a high today and MAY go above freezing for a couple of hours on Tuesday before dropping back to near 0°F Thursday morning. Still winter here! 

I have about 1.5 weeks of wood in the rack on the porch landing and a similar amount on the porch. If the snow hasn't melted by then I have to decide if I just want to burn oil or if I want to hand move the wood in the "stranded" rack. There are about 2 weeks of wood in each rack when they are full.


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## thistlebloom

Sorry about all that below freezing stuff. I know you get into the swing of it and deal, but it's so nice when it gets above freezing. Then it's shorts weather!


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## Bruce

Another one for Mr. @Senile_Texas_Aggie since I'm quite certain you don't see this sort of thing at your house


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## thistlebloom

I see blue sky and sunshine!!


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## Bruce

Froze my butt off every time I went down to the barn but the panels made 42.46 kWhs today 
Supposed to have some increasing cloudiness tomorrow so we will make less. But not nearly as little as many of the days that will be on the next electric bill. We had quite a number of real stinkers, 14 days didn't even approach 5 kWhs and of course we made nothing during the storm last Friday.


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## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Froze my butt off every time I went down to the barn but the panels made 42.46 kWhs today
> Supposed to have some increasing cloudiness tomorrow so we will make less. But not nearly as little as many of the days that will be on the next electric bill. We had quite a number of real stinkers, 14 days didn't even approach 5 kWhs and of course we made nothing during the storm last Friday.


So maybe you are the one to answer this question for me...Is it worth the cost of getting the solar panels ? How long does it take until you are getting "free" electricity  ?


----------



## Bruce

I haven't actually calculated that out yet. I started a spreadsheet so I could see how much the bills WOULD be if I didn't have the panels but the dang electric company keeps adding new "fees" and jacking the rates and the "fees" change monthly  making it really hard to have the spreadsheet do the calculations. Our electric rate is $0.18/kWh with a daily charge of $0.49 plus all the added fees.

The next bill would have been about $134 if I didn't have the solar. The last one would have been $155. I have to pay $66 on the coming bill but that is because I have no excess credits built up. My fault because I've been charging my Prime and didn't cancel the net metering sharing so some of my credits have been going to the other account. I used up all my credits with the last bill and owed $4, first time I've paid since Feb 2016. I should get back to not paying after this month (or not much next month) since I cancelled the net metering. I'm now using my "excess" in my car.

But, IF all my bills were $134 the payback would be about 12 years. And one thing is certain, the price to have power coming from the utility has only gone up and will continue to do so making the breakeven come in fewer years.  I've had the panels for 4 full years so far. Note that mine are ground mounted on sched 80 metal pipe and can be adjusted seasonally increasing the net output by about 15% more efficient (but not as efficient as trackers, though those are much more expensive). As such the installation cost was higher than it would have been if the panels were on the roof ... which they would have been if we had any south facing roof!

The web site that stores the production data says I've saved 52,000 pounds of CO2 and "planted" the equivalent of 1,300 trees. I have NO idea what algorithms they use to calculate that but I suspect it is wrong in my case since my power company has mostly hydro (from Canada) plus solar and wind based power.


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## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> I haven't actually calculated that out yet. I started a spreadsheet so I could see how much the bills WOULD be if I didn't have the panels but the dang electric company keeps adding new "fees" and jacking the rates and the "fees" change monthly  making it really hard to have the spreadsheet do the calculations. Our electric rate is $0.18/kWh with a daily charge of $0.49 plus all the added fees.
> 
> The next bill would have been about $134 if I didn't have the solar. The last one would have been $155. I have to pay $66 on the coming bill but that is because I have no excess credits built up. My fault because I've been charging my Prime and didn't cancel the net metering sharing so some of my credits have been going to the other account. I used up all my credits with the last bill and owed $4, first time I've paid since Feb 2016. I should get back to not paying after this month (or not much next month) since I cancelled the net metering. I'm now using my "excess" in my car.
> 
> But, IF all my bills were $134 the payback would be about 12 years. And one thing is certain, the price to have power coming from the utility has only gone up and will continue to do so making the breakeven come in fewer years.  I've had the panels for 4 full years so far. Note that mine are ground mounted on sched 80 metal pipe and can be adjusted seasonally increasing the net output by about 15% more efficient (but not as efficient as trackers, though those are much more expensive). As such the installation cost was higher than it would have been if the panels were on the roof ... which they would have been if we had any south facing roof!
> 
> The web site that stores the production data says I've saved 52,000 pounds of CO2 and "planted" the equivalent of 1,300 trees. I have NO idea what algorithms they use to calculate that but I suspect it is wrong in my case since my power company has mostly hydro (from Canada) plus solar and wind based power.


Thank you, then when is the cost of the panels  paid off? I would think it would be a major incentive to use it here in Florida.....


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Bruce said:


> OK, specifically for @Senile_Texas_Aggie I did a couple of videos (hope they come out) of (static) snow. Unfortunately it was a weird misty snowy day, no blue sky and sun so a serious lack of contrast.
> 
> From the front door around the street side and a view of the barns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the barn and back
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I came to realize yesterday that I won't be getting to that last rack of wood in front of the house any time soon. The pallet forks are on the barn side of all the empty racks and there is way more snow than I'm going to shovel between the barn and the forks. I have to run parallel down near the barn then turn uphill to get to the forks. The tractor isn't going to do anything on a snowy (even if mostly shoveled) side hill other than want to slide down into the barn. At least I had this epiphany BEFORE I needed to try it.


Yeah, you do seem to have more snow than I have, or perhaps ours just blows around better in the open fields.  Either way, you’ve got a lot.  Will you hand carry the wood?


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## Bruce

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Yeah, you do seem to have more snow than I have, or perhaps ours just blows around better in the open fields.  Either way, you’ve got a lot.  Will you hand carry the wood?


We will see, no need to rush things  DW and I are going to So. Cal for a niece's wedding mid March. Even if there is wood DD2 won't necessarily keep the stove going so I'll probably switch the oil furnace from the basement thermostat back to the first floor thermostat and figure the wood heating season may be over for the year. 



B&B Happy goats said:


> Thank you, then when is the cost of the panels  paid off? I would think it would be a major incentive to use it here in Florida.....


In theory 2028 but if the power company keeps raising rates it will be earlier. The panels have a 25 year warranty.
Everyone needs to evaluate putting on solar based on their local situation. 

The Federal Tax credits were 30%, dropped to 26% this year and 22% next year and zero after that unless the Feds decide to change it again. 
Some states also have tax credits. 
Then there is how the power you feed back into the grid is valued. Here it is the same as the retail price you pay but any credit you earn in a given month expires a year later, use it or lose it. USED to be you could transfer the $ credit to another account. They killed that a couple of years ago. Some places you can get cash for your extra credits.
And in VT there is a $0.05/kWh generated credit for every kWh you generate regardless of if it ever hits the grid. That is a 10 year thing, drops off after that (guess I have to go back and recalculate some). Since my array is putting out about 8 mWh's a year that is $400/year. That is the only incentive the state/utility  provides ... but see the next bullet
When I had mine installed (grandfathered) there is no restriction on how the credits could be used. A couple of years ago they killed that too, credits earned on newer installations can't be used to pay the fixed costs (like the per day fee), only against kWhs you pull from the grid above what you sent them in a given month so there is no way to have NO bill other than going off grid. Pretty much the minimum bill is close to $20/month which therefore can't be used to "pay" for the system.
About the time I got mine (end of 2015) Nevada basically killed residential solar, all the big companies pulled out. The per day price for net metered accounts jacked to double that of non net metered accounts and the price the utility paid for the power you put on the grid was at the wholesale rate they paid for other power yet you still got charged retail for anything you used. And I don't THINK that was even net difference. Meaning if you sent them 10 kWh during the day they credit you that much at the low wholesale rate, when you then pulled 10 kWh at night they charged you retail. Here (and I think most places) that would be a wash.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Another one for Mr. @Senile_Texas_Aggie since I'm quite certain you don't see this sort of thing at your house



You are right, Mr. @Bruce, we rarely see that sort of thing here.



Bruce said:


> And it doesn't take much snow for the GT to get stuck even with chains on the rear wheels and an additional 50# weight on the back. And if there is ice on the hill?  no differential lock and the chains polish the ice rather than moving the tractor.



Do you think you could get a rear mounted PTO snow blower for your tractor?  And maybe get some aggressive chains that will bite into the ice?  Here is an example of a rear mounted PTO driven snow blower in action.  This guy lives in central Ontario, so maybe it would be similar to what you face:





Regarding chains to get, there is another guy who got aggressive chains for his tractor and they work great:





Anyhow, I hope you can get something that will do the job for you.  I don't want you to have a heart attack from shoving snow!  

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Baymule

If I had to deal with those temperatures I would hibernate! Brrrrr!


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## Bruce

But Bay, then your animals would all starve to death if they didn't die of thirst first!

No way I'd do a rear blower. First I'd be a permanent pretzel if I had to twist around and drive backwards. Second, I think a rear blower would be more suited to long paths/roads than to my relatively small circular parking area. 

If I get chains I think I'll go with the front wheels since it would aid in grip and steering and my front tires are probably about the same size as the rear tires on that B2601. Not sure how I would haul around chains big enough to go on the rear wheels let alone get them tight. My neighbor down the road has chains only on the front of his 105 HP cab Zetor, he uses the bucket to clear people's driveways.


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## B&B Happy goats

Thank you Bruce for explaining  that for me, guess I won't  go in that direction at my age.
Oh, your namesake is chocolate and white now that he is out in the sun and fully dried off  cute as a button !


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## Bruce

So Mike and I are twins! Well we already were anyway.

I also forgot to mention that the panels are more efficient in cold temps than hot. They are rated under "ideal" conditions (70 or 75°F IIRC) with the sun exactly perpendicular. My array is rated at 6.6 kWh under ideal conditions. It can (and did yesterday when it never got to 0°F) produce above that. I'll never see that if it is 90°F so that is another thing to take into consideration. Of course whoever is sizing the array to a customer's needs should know that and take it into account. 

I saw a video of a guy in Australia who had made his own array. It was IIRC well above 100°F and he tested the theory by hosing down the array, output jumped as the panels cooled off. Of course it wouldn't be energy efficient to power a well pump to hose the panels down all summer long. Plus you would need a REALLY good well.


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## B&B Happy goats

Lol, not quite twins, you are chocolate  Mike is a redish brown....but both quite dear to us


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Bruce said:


> We will see, no need to rush things  DW and I are going to So. Cal for a niece's wedding mid March. Even if there is wood DD2 won't necessarily keep the stove going so I'll probably switch the oil furnace from the basement thermostat back to the first floor thermostat and figure the wood heating season may be over for the year.
> 
> 
> In theory 2028 but if the power company keeps raising rates it will be earlier. The panels have a 25 year warranty.
> Everyone needs to evaluate putting on solar based on their local situation.
> 
> The Federal Tax credits were 30%, dropped to 26% this year and 22% next year and zero after that unless the Feds decide to change it again.
> Some states also have tax credits.
> Then there is how the power you feed back into the grid is valued. Here it is the same as the retail price you pay but any credit you earn in a given month expires a year later, use it or lose it. USED to be you could transfer the $ credit to another account. They killed that a couple of years ago. Some places you can get cash for your extra credits.
> And in VT there is a $0.05/kWh generated credit for every kWh you generate regardless of if it ever hits the grid. That is a 10 year thing, drops off after that (guess I have to go back and recalculate some). Since my array is putting out about 8 mWh's a year that is $400/year. That is the only incentive the state/utility  provides ... but see the next bullet
> When I had mine installed (grandfathered) there is no restriction on how the credits could be used. A couple of years ago they killed that too, credits earned on newer installations can't be used to pay the fixed costs (like the per day fee), only against kWhs you pull from the grid above what you sent them in a given month so there is no way to have NO bill other than going off grid. Pretty much the minimum bill is close to $20/month which therefore can't be used to "pay" for the system.
> About the time I got mine (end of 2015) Nevada basically killed residential solar, all the big companies pulled out. The per day price for net metered accounts jacked to double that of non net metered accounts and the price the utility paid for the power you put on the grid was at the wholesale rate they paid for other power yet you still got charged retail for anything you used. And I don't THINK that was even net difference. Meaning if you sent them 10 kWh during the day they credit you that much at the low wholesale rate, when you then pulled 10 kWh at night they charged you retail. Here (and I think most places) that would be a wash.


A friend of mine thinks we should ge5 solar power in my chicken coop because we have lights on a timer.  I politely explained how much money we have invested in these 40 darned chickens, and never see more than $2.50 on a good week!   My old farmer friend, nodded his head, sat back in his chair, very smugly and said...‘she’s finally getting it’.


----------



## Bruce

What does lights on a timer have to do with solar just for the coop? You clearly already have power in the coop.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Bruce said:


> What does lights on a timer have to do with solar just for the coop? You clearly already have power in the coop.


I know, my friend is just a ditz.... She just thinks we have big bucks because we built a farm, etc...


----------



## Bruce

Oh, she doesn't know how to have a million $ when farming??


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## Bruce

Bit the bullet today (so to speak). Got the tractor out and cleared snow from the side of where the pallet forks are stored since there is no way I could get to them the "right" direction. I was able to lift the forks with a chain on the hook on the bucket and carry them over to the parking area and set them down. Then I had to move snow away from the 1 remaining full rack on the lawn and the ground in front of the porch. Swapped the bucket for the forks, moved the empty rack out and the full rack in. Took a couple of hours but it's done.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I know that was a PITA, but congratulations  on getting it done


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## Bruce

Thanks. Should be enough wood left to get past the 11th when DW and I head to So. Cal. I don't expect DD2 will try to keep the "home fires" going so there will be some for use when I get back on the 26th. DW is staying just the first week.


----------



## Baymule

Ice and snow then to California! That will be a nice change.


----------



## Grant

Bruce said:


> Bit the bullet today (so to speak). Got the tractor out and cleared snow from the side of where the pallet forks are stored since there is no way I could get to them the "right" direction. I was able to lift the forks with a chain on the hook on the bucket and carry them over to the parking area and set them down. Then I had to move snow away from the 1 remaining full rack on the lawn and the ground in front of the porch. Swapped the bucket for the forks, moved the empty rack out and the full rack in. Took a couple of hours but it's done.


I hate having to change implements.  I especially hate hooking up the post auger, but I don’t want to dig them by hand so I do it.  Sometimes like you said, you have to just bite the bullet and do it.


----------



## Bruce

Swapping the forks for the bucket isn't usually a big deal WHEN there is no snow or ice. I kinda forgot to plan for that when I positioned the pallets they are stored on when not in use. There will have to be a change next year!

I haven't put the post auger on yet. I hear that is one of the "not much fun" implements. Heavy and ungainly. I've seen where people have made supports on dollys so they just lower the auger and arch down and unhook. Of course those people also have big barns with nice level concrete floors. Don't have that here!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir,

I bet you wished you resided further south where almost all of the tornadoes happen, such at Nashville, instead of the boring weather you have in Vermont! 

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> I haven't put the post auger on yet. I hear that is one of the "not much fun" implements. Heavy and ungainly. I've seen where people have made supports on dollys so they just lower the auger and arch down and unhook. Of course those people also have big barns with nice level concrete floors. Don't have that here!



I literally take my auger apart when taking it off and then put it back together on the tractor when I'm going to use it.  It takes about 20 minutes but when I'm working alone, it makes it manageable.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah, mine is still in its original 3 pieces. The arch and arm are in the workshop and the auger is leaning up against a wall in the "tractor bay" (for lack of a better description)


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Mr. @Bruce, sir,
> 
> I bet you wished you resided further south where almost all of the tornadoes happen, such at Nashville, instead of the boring weather you have in Vermont!


About as much as I'd like to live in Antarctica!


----------



## Bruce

Heading to So. Cal for 2 weeks this afternoon.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Have a good and safe trip!!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Have a great time Bruce


----------



## thistlebloom

Safe travels! Have a good time with your family.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Have fun!


----------



## farmerjan

Hope you have a safe trip.  Be careful in and around the masses of people in public places.  I am not an alarmist, but this corona virus is a little  scary.


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## Bruce

Scaring everyone. I posted on Barb's journal but here is a quick run down. 

Made it to So Cal Wed night just fine. 
Hung out at Dad's Thursday. 
Friday DW, my sister and I went to the desert zoo near Palm Springs. Dad was going to the wedding rehearsal down in Escondido. Got home from the zoo, Dad was unexpectedly home. He developed a cold, ZERO Corona virus symptoms but just to be extra careful and come back home. He's self quarantining JUST in case though I'll bet 100% he has nothing more than a cold. Sister, DW and I went out for dinner per our plan. And ... the dining hall at the retirement community had been closed that day to non residents. 
Dad, aunt and uncle bailed on the wedding on Saturday, sister, DW and I went. 
Hung out at Dad's Sunday, scrounged dinner. DW and I still had some leftovers from Friday night anyway.
Changed my flight from next week to go home with DW this Wed AM since who knows if they will start cancelling flights for lack of warm bodies or other CV fears.
Drove Dad's car to sisters this morning arriving around 11. Dad called just as we arrived to say that the entire community was closed to all visitors. Kind of a PITA, no?? Dad's place is one of the few single family homes, the closest next residence is 100' away on one side, major ravine runs around his place at the end of the "peninsula". Not like we could infect anyone even if we were sick. So .... he had to get special permission for us to drive back, with sister in her car, to return his car and collect all our stuff. 
Now spending the next 2 days at sister's on the sofa bed ... unless DW's RA can't deal with it, then she'll sleep on the living room couch. Hoping Jet Blue doesn't cancel our Wed flight.
And in other news - DD1's university is throwing everyone out of the dorms on the 22nd, 3 weeks before the end of school, classes will be online (like it is SO easy for teachers to create online content with little notice). She and 3 friends already leased (back in Jan) a 4 bedroom house starting May 1st. Having no US health insurance and her Canadian insurance only good for 1 month in this country, plus fears they will close the border, she and another girl will be staying at an air B&B on PEI for 3 weeks, then 2 weeks at the girl's family's summer place (assuming the well is thawed by mid April).


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Bruce said:


> Scaring everyone. I posted on Barb's journal but here is a quick run down.
> 
> Made it to So Cal Wed night just fine.
> Hung out at Dad's Thursday.
> Friday DW, my sister and I went to the desert zoo near Palm Springs. Dad was going to the wedding rehearsal down in Escondido. Got home from the zoo, Dad was unexpectedly home. He developed a cold, ZERO Corona virus symptoms but just to be extra careful and come back home. He's self quarantining JUST in case though I'll bet 100% he has nothing more than a cold. Sister, DW and I went out for dinner per our plan. And ... the dining hall at the retirement community had been closed that day to non residents.
> Dad, aunt and uncle bailed on the wedding on Saturday, sister, DW and I went.
> Hung out at Dad's Sunday, scrounged dinner. DW and I still had some leftovers from Friday night anyway.
> Changed my flight from next week to go home with DW this Wed AM since who knows if they will start cancelling flights for lack of warm bodies or other CV fears.
> Drove Dad's car to sisters this morning arriving around 11. Dad called just as we arrived to say that the entire community was closed to all visitors. Kind of a PITA, no?? Dad's place is one of the few single family homes, the closest next residence is 100' away on one side, major ravine runs around his place at the end of the "peninsula". Not like we could infect anyone even if we were sick. So .... he had to get special permission for us to drive back, with sister in her car, to return his car and collect all our stuff.
> Now spending the next 2 days at sister's on the sofa bed ... unless DW's RA can't deal with it, then she'll sleep on the living room couch. Hoping Jet Blue doesn't cancel our Wed flight.
> And in other news - DD1's university is throwing everyone out of the dorms on the 22nd, 3 weeks before the end of school, classes will be online (like it is SO easy for teachers to create online content with little notice). She and 3 friends already leased (back in Jan) a 4 bedroom house starting May 1st. Having no US health insurance and her Canadian insurance only good for 1 month in this country, plus fears they will close the border, she and another girl will be staying at an air B&B on PEI for 3 weeks, then 2 weeks at the girl's family's summer place (assuming the well is thawed by mid April).


I’m glad you had, a sort of good, but weird trip...glad you’re com8ng home sooner.  My sons college is now online too...he’s furious because he’s pre-med and it’s hands on.  Please be safe on your flight!!!  Let us know when you ar3 h9me!!


----------



## Baymule

This is a very good time to hunker down at home with wine and brownies. LOL LOL Be sure and let us know when you are back home, safe and sound!


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## B&B Happy goats

Are you safe at home yet Bruce ?


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## Baymule

B&B Happy goats said:


> Are you safe at home yet Bruce ?


x2


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## Bruce

Yep, got home at midnight-ish.  DD2 said there was no bread at the store yesterday so I fed my sourdough starter for making some tomorrow and am taking a shot at King Arthur's Whole wheat oatmeal honey bread today. Supposed to be relatively fast, 3 hours total. The sourdough (at least what I've made) has been more like 24 hours start to finish.

No one told the hens about this virus. There are 7 dozen eggs in the refrigerator and they are STILL working!  DD2's lift attendant job was shut down after Tuesday and for various reasons she was able to get only 1 dozen eggs delivered last week. The "potential" was actually 6 dozen. One of my regular customers is up for 2 dozen ... as long as only DD2 touches and delivers them JUST in case DW or I were in contact with infected persons. Of course one never knows but I'm pretty sure we did not, even though we were flying.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Happy you got home safely  Bruce ....stay healthy !


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## Baymule

Maybe you should squirt some hand sanitizer up your hens egg chute, just to be on the safe side for finicky customers. Welcome home!


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## Bruce

Don't have any hand sanitizer, that stuff gives me migraines. Not sure how I managed to avoid getting one on the trip. I did see Arcadia drop her egg today. NO question about which hen laid that one. DD2 collected it.


----------



## Bruce

High of 22°F yesterday. Water running down the "track" up into the woods where the 2 trees are hung up. No tractoring up there. Also standing water in the sun at the low spot between the pond and wetland 160' to its north. No tractoring through there either. 10°F this morning at 7 AM. Went out at 9 AM with the tractor when it was up to 15°F to collect the logs I had stored at the NW corner of the field last fall. Firm "enough" crossing the low area. 

I cut the logs to 8' lengths then took the saw up the track, some ice in the track but definitely still too wet for the tractor.  I was able to cut the tree that was leaning across the track to 16' and the trunk fell into the track. The 2 "branch trunks" dropped at the butt ends, tops still hung up in the trees. Then went to the other leaner, it was one of 3 trunks coming off a single base but while the other 2 had dropped, this one got hung up sitting on the stump. I managed to cut it such that the butt end is off the stump but it didn't drop the top down at all. I guess I'm going to have to get the come-alongs and pull the butt up toward a big tree so the top will fall, not sure how I'm going to get those 2 trees out of the woods since it won't dry for months if ever. 

Having finished messing with those trees I went back to the tractor and took the 8' logs up to the pile by the barn in 2 loads. Sure would be nice to have a grapple for that instead of forks but they worked well enough.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

It got up to 26* here yesterday...it’s about 30? Now, not sure?  we talked to farmers yesterday about an hour south, they already planting lettuce and peas!  What?  We have to wait till after Memorial Day, at least!  Ugh


----------



## Bruce

Wow, amazing that ~60 miles can make such a difference! We don't plant anything that likes warm weather until Memorial day either. Cabbage, peas and broccoli can go in earlier. Peas "as soon as the soil can be worked" but unfortunately it is usually a clay mud mess early. Never even got the peas in last year.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Sure would be nice to have a grapple for that instead of forks but they worked well enough.



I don't recall how much work you do in the woods, but I guarantee that if you do much you will be so glad you got them.  It is probably my second favorite attachment, behind the mower.


----------



## Bruce

How do you attach the grapple behind the mower and can you use them at the same time?  

I only need 4 cords of firewood per year and so far have yet to accomplish even that. And I certainly have NO idea what 4 cords looks like as a pile of cut trees. I had 2.5 cords last year but Al got bored last winter and cut some wood so I got his 1.5 cords. He used to cut and sell 10 cords every year. I see he has some up on the "splitting" hill this year as well, I might need some of it if he offers it up. 

Besides Al having a logging winch (*) the trails up through his woods must be in a lot better shape and a LOT drier than mine. Not surprising since he's been logging for years. There is only one place to go up into the woods here as there is a large section of ledge running behind the west field. Plenty hard to clamber up that in boots, certainly nothing a tractor will scale. That one trail on the north end is all I have to work with. Might need a hundred tandem trailer loads of stone and a lifetime to carry it all through the fields to the trail to get the trail usable for the tractor. And I am surely NOT going to walk up into the woods, cut down trees and carry out all the rounds in my arms one at a time. If that is the option, there are plenty of people selling cord wood here.

Snow flurries have started, might get 1.5".  Making soup stock and sourdough bread today. Will make a chicken and veg soup for dinner. DD2 will eat something else since I'm not making New England clam chowder, the only soup she will eat and then only if the first "solid" ingredient is clams. DW wouldn't be happy with that soup, she's really not a potato fan other than yams/sweet potatoes.

* which Mike Morgan found out he really DID need once he got one. I 'hinted' about his need in the comment section of several videos. OK, hint is too weak a word, I actually said it outright  When he finally got one his comments in the video suggest I wasn't the only one telling him what should have been obvious to someone who brings in as much wood as he does.


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## farmerjan

He meant that the grapple is his second favorite attachment.... as in second favorite behind his first choice favorite, the mower.... not attached behind the mower.....

I just noticed the Winky eye..... duh.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> How do you attach the grapple behind the mower and can you use them at the same time?



It's really quite tricky to do! 

I think you would be amazed at how much work you could get done with a grapple.  You could easily carry the rocks you are talking about that would be needed to build a trail.  I know you could carry the rocks with the FEL bucket, but using a grapple you can easily pick them up and move them around into position more easily.  Do you have a 3rd function valve on your Mahindra?  If you don't, you can install a diverter kit on your tractor for less money than a 3rd function valve.  I went ahead and paid the extra expense for the 3rd function valve when I got the grapple.  The 3rd function valve was $3500 for installation, while the grapple was $1500.  I bought the 2-clamp kind of grapple, which I like better than the ones with a single clamp.  I believe you can install a diverter kit in lieu of a 3rd function valve for around $1000.  As for the winch, you may want to consider buying one as well.  I don't have one as I don't make and burn firewood.  If I decided to go into the firewood business I would certainly consider one.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

The kind of stone that would be needed on the "trail" would fall right through a grapple! I had originally told the tractor dealer that I wanted a grapple .... until I found out how much the 3rd function kit would cost. Went with the pallet forks instead. From watching TTWT and OWTM I agree that the double grapple over the single seems a lot more functional. 

Saw on Tractor Mike's channel yesterday:  a sub compact tractor electric grapple for those that don't have a 3rd function or diverter. It is a single clamp and not the full width of the lower section - 49" wide (lower) and 28.25" (upper) though. That is a pretty narrow single upper clamp. I don't know well one would have to center the load to keep the ends from dragging in the dirt. I would like to see longer lower "jaws" on it as well, looks like you would be limited to 1 log of any diameter at a time. Apparently $2K without shipping. I wonder if they make one for compacts, I don't see one on the Worksaver site.

Just found Good Works Tractors "review" of that and another "no hydraulics" grapple. Yeah, single log on the Worksaver unless you somehow managed to stack them vertically when picking them up. The other one clamps as you use the dump function on the loader. Much more circular clamp so multiple logs but not great with control of the grapple since you can't adjust the bottom relative to the ground without opening/closing the clamps at the same time. But something to think about in any case. 

I don't cut near enough wood to justify a logging winch. I think you should start burning wood so you can make even more use of your grapple


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Believe me, I would like to burn wood instead of propane.  It would be practically free.  But the cost of upgrading the fireplace and chimney would be outrageous.  I may look into an outdoor wood burner -- HomeSteadHow did a review of their outdoor woodburner stove after 4 years of ownership.  I may need to watch that more closely.

I can't imagine buying an electric grapple.  I am so glad I got my 3rd function valve installed, as it has permitted me to buy the tree shear and be able to use it as well.  Now all I need is a wood splitter and I'd be ready to cut and process some wood!


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## thistlebloom

Couldn't you put a freestanding woodstove in, instead of using your existing fireplace? I love wood heat, it's the best!


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## Bruce

I think the cost of the chimney could be a deterrent. Even a triple wall metal chimney isn't cheap.


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## farmerjan

Did you get any snow?  My brother sent a picture from my parents in NH that they got 5 inches.  I guess a day or 2 ago?
Boy, I sure don't want to see any of that stuff with my peach trees in full bloom....


----------



## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> I think the cost of the chimney could be a deterrent. Even a triple wall metal chimney isn't cheap.



True, but you only need the insulated pipe through the attic area. We have single wall, then triple through the roof, which because our ceiling is vaulted it doesn't have a lot of attic to go through.


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Did you get any snow?  My brother sent a picture from my parents in NH that they got 5 inches.  I guess a day or 2 ago?
> Boy, I sure don't want to see any of that stuff with my peach trees in full bloom....


Yep, about 3". It all melted yesterday and today though. No problem with fruit trees flowering here yet.


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## Bruce

thistlebloom said:


> True, but you only need the insulated pipe through the attic area. We have single wall, then triple through the roof, which because our ceiling is vaulted it doesn't have a lot of attic to go through.


Yes but what does STA have? If not vaulted one story he'll need a lot of triple wall either straight up or out the wall.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

I have vaulted ceilings.  I will talk to the boss and see what she would like to do.  I also watched the HomeSteadHow video where they reviewed their outdoor wood stove.  They reside in Wisconsin, so they burn a lot more wood during the winter.  Here's the video if you want to see for yourself:


----------



## Bruce

OK, then we have to determine the layout of your house and do you already have hot water heat you could tap an outdoor furnace to? 
If the house is a fairly open floor plan you could heat it with a single wood stove in the house. Probably need a few registers, some possibly with fans. 

Seems like he's heating a lot with that boiler but I sure wouldn't want to / be capable of cutting 10 cords of wood a year.


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## thistlebloom

Besides the quality of wood heat, I'm pretty addicted to watching the fire through the glass. It's so cheering when it's ugly and cold outside.

We used to have a propane fireplace that was intended for heating the house (our house is little, 1200sf). It was loud and horribly inefficient. When the power went out one winter for 12 hours we decided we needed to have something that was not dependent on electricity. The electric stove that also came with the house went out about the same time, so we installed a gas one, and tore out the old propane fireplace and put in the woodstove. Now when the power goes out we know we can keep the house warm and cook.


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## Bruce

Yep, nothing so inefficient as a fireplace of any nature. Most of the heat goes straight up the chimney. They were necessary a hundred plus years ago, before wood and coal stoves. And those were necessary before oil/gas central heat, no muss, no fuss ... and ... no electricity, no heat. More recently - pellet stoves, less fuss and muss than wood though I think most still require electricity to run the auger but they can be run with battery backup.


----------



## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> Yep, nothing so inefficient as a fireplace of any nature. Most of the heat goes straight up the chimney. They were necessary a hundred plus years ago, before wood and coal stoves. And those were necessary before oil/gas central heat, no muss, no fuss ... and ... no electricity, no heat. More recently - pellet stoves, less fuss and muss than wood though I think most still require electricity to run the auger but they can be run with battery backup.



My mom and dad went from woodstove heating to a pellet stove. The pellets were easier for my dad to store and mom liked that they were neater. But she missed the more radient heat of a woodstove, and that even when the fire died you still got heat from it. The pellet stove cooled down immediately when the fire was out. But that was nearly 30 years ago and maybe they have better features now.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy

Wood burner is the way to go.  I’ve installed two in my house, one was a lesson learned.  We put one in the unfinished basement because everyone said it would be great and would heat our home wonderfully.  We couldn’t ever get the upstairs past 67 degrees on a warmer day.  So I told my wife we had two options, be cold every winter or she could start going downstairs to do the laundry.  Tore out the upstairs utility closet where the junky furnace was, tore out the “mud room” where the washer and dryer were and installed a free standing wood stove.  That put it more or less smack in the middle of the house and it melts us on the coldest days.  Just gotta pay a little for the wood cutting permit and spend some healthy hours outside cutting and splitting wood and telling your kids/spouse for the hundredth time that no they can’t go inside yet because there’s still wood to stack.  


this is when I first moved it upstairs. Since then I’ve replaced the flooring and added some dark stained 3x3s with hardware on the outside of the heat shield to give it a better look. Heats like a champ.


Then you get to make some trips like this.
A word in pellet stoves, they have their uses but everyone I’ve talked to who used one said they didn’t like them and after a year or two replaced them with wood stoves.  I’ve helped replace a couple of those.  The plus is you can get them that self regulate and maintain a constant temperature but they didn’t do as well in the radiant heat department and buying pellets didn’t really save them any money.  But it was convenient not having to cut the wood.


----------



## Bruce

It is great that you can have your stove in the middle of the house. As built, at least 160 years ago, this house had a central chimney, there is a notch in the 5 sided hand hewn ridge pole. The fireplace below on the first floor would have been very central to the house and used for heat and cooking. No way to have the woodstove there now because at some point someone moved the stairs. The woodstove is in the SW corner of the living room, not the best place to get even heat through the house.

At some point an idiot put two chimneys upstairs at either end of the house. I say idiot because they didn't offset them a bit, they cut the ends off the ridge pole   The brick part of those chimneys in the attic was removed, again "at some point", but the "chimney cabinets" in the rooms below are still in place. Whoever did that "cleverly" slapped a couple of boards up to connect the cut off rafters to the end of the cut off ridge pole. My GUESS is that there was a room at either end of the house upstairs with a woodstove in each one and the original staircase was an L shaped affair that came up to the center of the house between the two rooms upstairs. The original staircase would have been in what is now the open first floor, combo living and dining. No idea what the first floor layout was.


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## thistlebloom

A 160 year old house sounds charming, but I bet it comes with it's own set of frustrations. I bet if walls could speak it would have quite a story.


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## farmerjan

Love those "old New England farmhouses and colonials"  but they do have their frustrations as I am sure @Bruce can tell you.  My house up there was over 100 yrs old, my grandparents house was over 100 yrs old when I was a kid 50 yrs ago.  It has since been taken down.  My family had a couple of places in VT, that were original salt-box type houses and I loved them but so many have undergone several "remodelings"  and again as @Bruce was saying.... not everyone was qualified to make changes and it can affect the integrity of the structure. 

The house here I am in is over 250 yrs old and I would LOVE if it was mine so that there could be some  remodeling done, but I would want to fix some of the stupid stuff and bring back some of the original integrity.  Of course it is stone, blocks that are 18 inches.  It has several pluses, but the present owner is so tight that he won't do anything that is not life or death..  I mean it took nearly 6 months to get the porch roof fixed and replaced..... I would have the chimneys redone, lined and make them useful... and have the stone foundation redone so it is more airtight and many other things.  The thing is, if it was mine and I was collecting rent, I would be putting all that back into the house to fix, upgrade, and improve the house.  He doesn't need the rent, he uses the farm for his cattle.... he has a good retirement from his job, and rental money from another house that is also on this property up the road..... but he is letting this house just deteriorate slowly.  It is sad for such a beautiful, truly original, house from the beginnings of our country from revolutionary times.


----------



## thistlebloom

That's amazing to me that a house that old is still standing and habitable. I'm very impressed.


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## farmerjan

thistlebloom said:


> That's amazing to me that a house that old is still standing and habitable. I'm very impressed.



It is a shame that the current owner, a family member that bought the farm from his uncle, is not willing to restore this house the way it should be.  The one thing in it's favor, it has never stood empty for any length of time.  But the uncle took better care of this place from what I have been told.  This nephew, is a tightwad, and there were some family disagreements and squabbles, and then he bought this place and I know part of it was to piss off some of the other family members, and he wanted the rent from the 2 houses on it.  I wish I could win the lottery so I could offer him a " too good to turn down" offer, and do some things that need doing and utilize the land here the way it should be.  He doesn't hardly fertilize it..... only what is the minimum, he doesn't make enough hay to feed his cattle through the winter but buys quite a bit, it is not cross fenced like it should be to rotational graze it like it should be..... you just hate to see only the minimum done to get by with.    GRRRRRR


----------



## thistlebloom

Such a shame. I wish it was yours too FarmerJan.


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## Bruce

Nothing exciting going on but I'll post these 2 "projects".

Temporary handrail until I get around to finishing the stairs. Don't know why I didn't think of doing a temp thing 6 years ago.



Of course the first attempt was a fail for 2 reasons. 

I thought it was supposed to be 38" off the stair at the riser. Nope, supposed to be that at the nose (34" minimum). Of course there is no nose yet but I made it 38" at the front of the steps the second time.
 I somehow REALLY screwed up measuring and math and it was only about 33" at the top, not the 38" I expected though it was 38" at the first riser off the floor. I enlisted DD2 to hold a few parts on the 2nd pass while I measured and got it right. Works well now.
And yes all that mess is "normal"  None of it is mine other than the red raincoat (on top of the pile) which I had just brought from the other end of the house when I got the camera. Rain today and all day tomorrow. It is now hanging in the mudroom. 

The mudroom. We had picked out tile for it 6 years ago when this entire part of the house was rebuilt. But of course it was a closeout and someone bought it while we brought some home to see if we liked it. Finally got around to deciding we ought to get on this and went back to the tile store in January. These things aren't easy when your DW works every day but Sunday and the tile store isn't open on Sundays. 

As it has been for 6+ years (without the bench and all the mess on the floor or the 2 boot trays). For reference, the door in the right picture is the front door to the house.
 


How do you like the new look?


OK, that isn't the tile that is a tile separation membrane ... which I didn't know I needed when I got the tile water saw to cut the tiles before we went to So. Cal earlier this month. My plan was to finish the job before we left. Instead I ordered this stuff, it came while we were gone, I cut the pieces today. 

Yesterday I started looking at the instructions on getting it onto the floor. I need some modified thinset mortar. I have a bucket of expensive premixed thinset. NOT supposed to use it on plywood, particle board, etc. Of course it doesn't say that anywhere on the bucket, that info is online   Good thing I didn't lay the tile with it without the membrane. So tomorrow I'll see if it is even possible to buy any thinset or if the stores are closed. AND, I'm not sure I can use the expensive premixed stuff on top of this. I'm going to call the membrane company tomorrow and ask. If not, I also need to get some unmodified thinset to put the tile down. I hope I can find 25# bags of thinset, the room is only about 60 sq ft and I sure don't need 50# bags.

This is what it should look like when the tile is down before grouting
 

And this is the water saw setup in the walk-in shower. Couldn't use it outside in the sub freezing weather of course. 


Does any of this sound like how your projects tend to go @Senile_Texas_Aggie ??

In outside news, the snow has melted, the hens are popping out about a dozen eggs a day and there are fish swimming in the pond.


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## thistlebloom

That is exactly how projects seem to go at our house.

I used to think my husbands method of not going after projects was related to being in the business of construction and being reluctant to do it in his time off. But now I know he's just a common procrastinator. 

I forgot to say your tile looks good! You're going to love the good looks and low maintenance.


----------



## Baymule

And I have a feed and tack room that needs finishing...….


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## Bruce

Bay, I have that entire part of the house to finish! No door, window or baseboard trim anywhere! Part of it is no one wants to decide - paint or natural. And to me it makes a BIG difference. If natural it will be hardwood (likely cherry or red birch), if paint it will be the much cheaper pine. And what color paint? Decisions, decisions.

Finishing the staircase is a bit of a head scratcher. The carpenter built the landings 42"wide BUT this is a post and beam house and there is an 8" deep beam on the wall (seen in the picture) which makes it only 34" wide usable. In theory the 2 posts at the U would be on the landings making the landings and intermediate step only 31" usable which just doesn't cut it at all. So the posts have to be on the first step of the upper part and the last step of the lower part. I need to engineer a way to do that. I think I'm going to have to pad out the lower stairs several inches so I don't end up with really narrow stairs on the bottom. And then there is the "how the heck do you put a nearly vertical handrail in between those two posts at the right height? Especially an issue because DW wants the handrail to be continuous so she doesn't have to take her hand off it if she is unsteady. Fortunately that hasn't been a problem yet (as evidenced by the years long lack of a lower railing).

And the OTHER problem is - once it is warm enough out in the workshop to do anything, there are a ton of outdoor projects to do!


----------



## Baymule

Want some cheese with that whine?


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## thistlebloom

You need a woodstove in your workshop!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Does any of this sound like how your projects tend to go @Senile_Texas_Aggie ??



Yes, Mr @Bruce, that is exactly how my projects seem to go.


----------



## mystang89

Thanks for the constant updates on your remodeling. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who learns as he goes. Sometimes even if you think you gave everything you need, and know everything possible.....you don't lol. Measure twice cut one? That's for the pros. Mine is more of a "measure 4 times, cut 3, measure 2 more times, get a new piece of wood, cut once, Ducktape what doesn't work."


----------



## SA Farm

mystang89 said:


> Thanks for the constant updates on your remodeling. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who learns as he goes. Sometimes even if you think you gave everything you need, and know everything possible.....you don't lol. Measure twice cut one? That's for the pros. Mine is more of a "measure 4 times, cut 3, measure 2 more times, get a new piece of wood, cut once, Ducktape what doesn't work."


Same lol


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Want some cheese with that whine?


I have some Edam in the refrigerator 



thistlebloom said:


> You need a woodstove in your workshop!


 That's a scary thought. One bad spark and the whole thing burns down. It is as old as the house. Also needs a lot of work.



mystang89 said:


> Thanks for the constant updates on your remodeling. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who learns as he goes. Sometimes even if you think you gave everything you need, and know everything possible.....you don't lol. Measure twice cut one? That's for the pros. Mine is more of a "measure 4 times, cut 3, measure 2 more times, get a new piece of wood, cut once, Ducktape what doesn't work."


Yeah, that seems just about right.


----------



## Bruce

Saw from the house what I thought was a tree down on the edge of the field. I went out and found that it was actually the shadow of a nearly horizontal trunk of an apple tree. Nothing to do there but I started looking at the trees in the area thinking about which were in the best shape and would benefit from nearby trees being cut out. 

Walked up the hill a bit and saw a big downed tree so I went to investigate to see if it was usable wood. I nearly ran into a ladder tree stand. It is in quite good shape including the ratchet straps holding it to the tree so it hasn't been there for years and years. The stand was facing our fields and house. I hope whoever was using it was bow hunting. I didn't put it there but I did take it down. I wonder if someone is going to come wandering around looking for it. Maybe I should put a sign on the tree "Looking for a tree stand?? Call .....". Guess it is time to post the property. I understand anyone can legally hunt on our property if it isn't posted (not that I want them to) but I don't think that gives them the right to put up a tree stand.


----------



## rachels.haven

Free tree stand? 
Kind of creepy actually. And dangerous.


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## Bruce

Yeah, I can only imagine if the are rifle hunting facing our house and barns. Hey look a black deer! And a brown one with a white neck! And look, they are inside that fence.  

We came across a guy wandering around a few years ago. I ASSUME he lives in one of the 8 houses on the road that runs up the south side of our property. All the houses are past where our field turns to woods and they have a few acres of "community property" on the south side of our woods. He said he thought their community property went to the chain link fence (neighbor to the north's fence). I told him if he could see the fence he was WAY off their property. 

I had surveyors come out last spring to put stakes on the south lot line at distances we could see each one in turn  from the previous stake. I need to pound in some T posts with signs. By law the signs need to be 200' apart but that is WAY too far apart in the woods. They would be all but invisible.  I doubt 50' apart would be enough unless someone was specifically looking for signs. One of the PITA's of posting is you have to put up new dated signs every year. 

And maybe see if they have an HOA 'president' or something and ask if they even have a survey of their property so they have some idea where their community property is. Our property has a 450' NW line running from the SW corner of the field, then goes 1,000' west. That corner is "conveniently" in a vernal pool that seems to have water in it all year unless we are in drought.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Guess it is time to post the property. I understand anyone can legally hunt on our property if it isn't posted (not that I want them to) but I don't think that gives them the right to put up a tree stand.



Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that people can legally hunt on your property and don't even have to ask or notify you? Oh HE!! NO! That would get someone shot here.


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## Baymule

You have to date the no trespassing signs and put up new ones every year? Do these trespassers pay the property taxes? We can just paint a tree or post with a ring of purple paint, it means posted. Date it? Nope. Put up a new ring of paint every year? Only if it fades. Gheesh. If I saw someone walking around on my property, he/she would be confronted and told to leave.


----------



## Mike CHS

Baymule said:


> You have to date the no trespassing signs and put up new ones every year? Do these trespassers pay the property taxes? We can just paint a tree or post with a ring of purple paint, it means posted. Date it? Nope. Put up a new ring of paint every year? Only if it fades. Gheesh. If I saw someone walking around on my property, he/she would be confronted and told to leave.



All we need here are Posted signs and I'll take care of anyone poaching on our place.


----------



## mystang89

I might put a sign out saying you have the stand since those are kinda expensive but at the same time that note might also come with confrontation which you may not feel like dealing with either. 

I agree, I sure hope they weren't using rifles. I have a neighbor who always shooting guns, which is fine, except I don't know which way she shoots and I'm down hill of her. I understand the fear.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that people can legally hunt on your property and don't even have to ask or notify you? Oh HE!! NO! That would get someone shot here.


Yep, unless it is posted. It is in the state constitution. 

But GOOD hunters will always go up to the house and ask permission before hunting on someone else's property. And frankly I'd say it would be pretty dangerous to rifle hunt up in my woods. If you miss aiming south that round will travel through the neighborhood up the road unless it hits a tree. East could put it in my house or the neighbor across the road. West could possibly put it into a car on the interstate if you happen to be up on the top of the hill before it slopes back down. Granted it is most likely that an errant round would hit a tree but still.



Baymule said:


> You have to date the no trespassing signs and put up new ones every year? Do these trespassers pay the property taxes? We can just paint a tree or post with a ring of purple paint, it means posted. Date it? Nope. Put up a new ring of paint every year? Only if it fades. Gheesh. If I saw someone walking around on my property, he/she would be confronted and told to leave.


Yep we do and no they don't pay my property taxes. And we did tell the guy a couple years ago to leave, I expect he was just out for a summer walk in the woods. 

Vermont posting law 
Note that there is nothing in there about putting hunting structures on someone else's land without permission.


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## thistlebloom

In Idaho it's similar - posted, planted or fenced. But posted could be signs or a 100 sq." orange spray paint marker on post or tree.
Actually that may be just trespassing, but I guess if you were hunting you would also be trespassing if you ignored one of those conditions.


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## Bruce

Nope, no "color paint means no trespassing" in Vermont. That sure would be cheaper than a bunch of signs minimally 200' apart but realistically 100' probably isn't close enough to ensure they are seen. It isn't like someone would be coming through an open field to a row of signs along the edge of the woods.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir, have you been getting a good bit of snow?  I saw where New England, especially Maine, to receive a lot of snow.


----------



## Bruce

Nope. Had a tiny bit on Thursday, gone now.

We are selling our old house which we have been renting out. Monday was "move everything that is going in the dumpster to near where the dumpster will be put" including stuff I brought from up here on my various trips down to the house.

Tuesday was dumpster day. Apparently it was about 1,600 pounds of "stuff".

Wed was metal recycling day. The people buying the house helped me put in the old cast iron tub (no, not a nice clawfoot) that has been sitting in the backyard for the last 29 years, a dead water heater, dryer and a 7 cu ft freezer (all were in the basement) in the truck. Then I put in the rest of the scrap metal and old usable lumber in the truck and drove it up here. Tractored the freezer onto the back deck (moving it into the house today) and removed the other usable stuff. Then DD2 helped (without complaining!  ) me load up the metal from here. Some was put in with the tractor, took 2 hours. Drove it to the recyclers:
1.16 tons scrap metal
93 pounds insulated copper wire
65 pounds #2 "dirty" copper
123 pounds #1 copper
52 pounds aluminum.

2653 pounds of metal. And I moved most of it twice. Good thing I didn't know how much weight that and the dumpster was going to be or I wouldn't have started at all! Don't bother with aluminum, more work than value - $0.08/pound. The only real value to the aluminum fins I pulled of the old baseboard hot water pipe was that its removal increased the value of the copper pipe from #2 to #1 - $0.20/pound more money. All the aluminum cat food cans I carefully sorted out of the other metal cans testing each with a magnet? Not worth the time and effort!!

Thursday - I didn't do a dang thing (other than make dinner)


----------



## Baymule

After all that hard work, you deserved to prop your feet up and have dinner fixed for you! Yeah, I know, it ain't happenin'.


----------



## thistlebloom

That's a lot of heavy lifting and moving. Cheaper than a gym membership I guess. Sorry you didn't get much $ to show for your recycling efforts. At least you got a lot cleaned up and done and that must feel good. I took a load of scrap metal to the recycler last year, a tent garage that had collapsed and a dead washer plus other odds and ends, and didn't even get enough to treat myself to a coffee at the Dutch Bros drive thru next door. An Americano there costs 2.50, if that gives you any idea .


----------



## Bruce

Better than paying for someone to collect it I guess @thistlebloom.


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## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> Better than paying for someone to collect it I guess @thistlebloom.



Oh for sure. It was going to get gone regardless, but I guess I had ideas of paying for my gas to get it there. Silly me!


----------



## Bruce

Well depending on what you are driving and how far you had to go, could be you lost a bit. Better that than some of the stuff I took - pulled ancient metal junk out of the woods just beyond the field. Good thing you didn't stop for that coffee on the way to the recyclers! And you didn't have to pay to rent the truck like I did.


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## Baymule

Before we moved in here, we hired a couple of day laborers to help us clean up. They hauled not one, but THREE sofas out of the woods, lots of trash and there started to be a lot of metal. One of them said he collected metal, so BJ took him to get his truck. They used old bedspring units for sideboards and piled metal up over the cab. The bumper barely cleared the ground. We paid them $75 each for their work, gave them $20 for gas to haul it off and they were tickled pink. We watched them drive away, congratulating ourselves that WE didn't have to haul it off.


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## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> Well depending on what you are driving and how far you had to go, could be you lost a bit. Better that than some of the stuff I took - pulled ancient metal junk out of the woods just beyond the field. Good thing you didn't stop for that coffee on the way to the recyclers! And you didn't have to pay to rent the truck like I did.



It didn't pay for my gas, but it was an errand day in town anyway, so I did make enough for a candy bar to treat myself, lol.


----------



## Bruce

They made out decently well for their time and effort Bay!

I really had no idea how much the dumpster was going to cost. There is a company here called "Got Junk?". I wonder what they would have charged to haul off the dumpster stuff. Too late now so like the current value of my investments, I don't want to know! Lucky I'm old enough to have a defined benefit retirement, just squeaked into that one when the company changed over to a cash balance plan. That was then converted to a 401K plan.


----------



## Bruce

Eggs today




The tiny blue one is from the breed of micro bantam Ameraucanas I developed.

OK, it is a robin egg that was "laid" in front of the barn. No trees within 50' so maybe she is just warming up for nesting season.


----------



## thistlebloom

😂 I was getting ready to be really impressed with your micro bantam breeding project, hahaha! I hope you don't have a bridge for sale....

That is a beautiful batch of eggs  .


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## Baymule

Perhaps you could collect more robin eggs, enough to make an omlette? LOL


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## Bruce

I'm afraid that is unlikely Bay, I don't know where else robins might leave random eggs!



thistlebloom said:


> I hope you don't have a bridge for sale....


I might, how much do you want to pay


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## thistlebloom

*runs to check wallet*


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## Bruce

I'm sure I can find a bridge in most any price range


----------



## Bruce

I have a small bit of actual herd activity to report. This afternoon DW, DD2 and I went out at afternoon "snack" time for the chickens and alpacas. After the boys started eating their pellets DD2 snuck around the barn and closed them in. Then I got their halters on which was easier than I expected. Of course they were kind of cornered against the outside door and that end of the barn alley which made it easier. 

I did Teddy's nails first, DW held his neck. He isn't real fond of it but doesn't fuss too much though he will pull his foot back a fair number of times. When he was done it was Laddie's turn, as usual he resisted more. He tries to sink down, shoving the foot I want under himself on the opposite side leaning heavily against both DW and me. But we got them done, nice that they have only 2 toes per leg  

First time in a year, should be doing it 3 or 4 times a year since they don't have hard ground to wear the nails down but since they so hate being handled I don't get to it. Several of their nails were quite long and curved but some hardly needed a thing. Good traction in the snow right?  I'll try to do better this year, get to them at the end of July and October. Not going to try it in the cold depths of winter when I won't be able to feel my hands with gloves off. 

OK, I know that trimming the nails on 2 alpacas isn't really up there with what some of you do but it's all I've got!


----------



## farmerjan

Hey, sounds like it all went "right" and it didn't sound like it was quite the chore it has been in the past..... or maybe that was the shearing???  It was work and obviously a team effort.  Good work.


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## thistlebloom

Maybe if you handled their feet more often they would get better faster? Like just running your hand down their leg initially, then lifting a hoof for an instant and putting it down without working on it. If every time you handle their feet it's an ordeal for both of you then that's what they come to expect and get bracey and resistant. 
That's my Alpaca whisperer advice for the day. You may go about your normal business now. 🤣

I understand this might have to start with getting them accustomed to getting haltered easily. Halter before their treat time and only at treat time.
Hey, it will give you something farmy to do!
(I have zero alpaca experience btw)


----------



## Bruce

Oh shearing is MUCH worse!! Teddy is still the "reasonable" one, not happy but he doesn't lean and drop and try to kick (much). Still takes over an hour (probably more) with hand shears and scissors. Laddie is so bad that he is still wearing last year's coat, we didn't shear him last spring. IF the shearing guy calls again this year hopefully I won't be heading out to a doctor's appointment when he could come after doing the 2 alpacas across the road in 15 minutes. Not a lot of pre planning there. Of course he probably didn't know I had these 2 until he talked to the neighbor, maybe she mentioned it when he said he was on the way or something. I think he's the guy that never called the year we got them from people down the road, he had sheared their 7 plus the ones across the road in the past.


----------



## farmerjan

Sometimes it just pays to have someone else do them.  Hope that you can get them done this year by that guy, and not have to fight them.  If it gets done quickly they might fight less too, so less traumatic????   Can't you find out from the neighbor about when the guy is coming so you can be better prepared to be there?  Are theirs that much easier to handle that he can just call and come by?   We've had llamas to run with the sheep.... lost the last one about a year ago I guess and have  fewer sheep so don't need to get any more.  Got 2 jenny's that run with the one group and the rams don't need protection.


----------



## Bruce

The only way I can get the halters on is to trap them in the barn, they are extremely wary. If they sense any sneakiness happening, they are gone. And it isn't just their feet, they don't want to be touched AT ALL. We got them in Oct 2016, before they prior owners moved the following spring I saw the man in the grocery store. I asked how they managed to work with the animals since they won't let anyone close enough to touch them. His answer I think is the reason they hate being touched: "We manhandled them". It is pretty sad given that Teddy was born at their place. I guess they didn't handle him when he was a wee cria either. I kinda figured that by not manhandling them they would figure out I wasn't going to cause them the distress that the prior owners did. I figured wrong.


----------



## Bruce

I know he does the standard "truss them up on the ground" shearing method, it is common with alpacas. Front legs stretched out one way, hind legs the other, they look ready to be spit roasted.  Someone has to hold the head down and that usually means weight on their necks since they are so long and muscular. That all seems pretty traumatizing to me which is why I built the stand so I could shear them on their feet. They still don't like it.

But yes I should talk to Martha and see if he has contacted her this year or she contacted him. Given this is an agricultural endeavor I think there is not a moratorium on his work though I could be wrong. Though it is still early to shear since the temps are still regularly dropping below freezing at night.


----------



## farmerjan

Anything agriculture related is considered an essential business and is allowed.  Of course, if you live in Michigan anything is possible - OR NOT - with that governor.   Bet you anything she doesn't get re-elected.....


----------



## Bruce

I watched WTFarmGirl's channel last night. She is in Michigan and yeah somehow agriculture and gardening are not "essential"  So you can't buy food and you can't grow food, are you supposed to eat the paint off the walls? 

I'm willing to bet that while a lot of governors are getting good reviews for their handling of the virus, she isn't one of them. And I agree, her time in office is limited though she has 3 more years. I guess she has time to redeem herself, if it is possible.


----------



## thistlebloom

So Bruce, basically what your saying is that an alpaca is a cat in a bigger fuzzier suit?


----------



## Bruce

Kinda, I suppose. But they don't scratch when they are done with you. Nor do they leave barfed up mouse in various places around the house  They will occasionally kick, Laddie gave me a glancing blow in the thigh once when I accidentally startled him. Lightning fast those legs! 

And while llamas are known to spit (actually it is regurgitation from their first stomach compartment) at people, alpacas are much less likely to do so. They will spit at each other and when really annoyed Laddie has spit near people, luckily has not hit any of us. I don't think cats spit at people.


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## Baymule

Animals remember ill handling for a long, long time. One of my horses, Sparkles, at 34 years of age, is still wary and we've had her 20+ years. Once we turned her out, it took 2 months before I could touch her again. I don't know what happened to her before we got her, but it must have been bad. She is the only horse I have ever had that I can't reach. I call her compliant but distant. The closest she can come to actually wanting anything to do with me is when I have a brush in my hand, she likes that. It took 12 YEARS before she would come to me to get brushed.


----------



## Bruce

Hmmm, the boys will be about end of life (and on the old end of the 15-20 years) if it takes 12 years! They have come and eaten their maintenance pellets (ie their "snack") out of my hand but do NOT raise the other hand to try and touch them. Nope, nope, nope, not having that! I can only keep trying I guess.


----------



## thistlebloom

It's all about consistency.
I had a wild colt that came off the Omak reservation 17 years ago. I believe the only handling he had was being branded, twice, shoulder and hip. He wanted NOTHING to do with people. It took three weeks of daily approach and retreat to finally be able to stand next to him. But he was much easier to establish a trust relationship with than Syringa has been. Once he trusted me he was all in. I don't even remember my first ride on him it was so matter of fact.

Of course I have no idea how an alpacas mind works.


----------



## Bruce

Me either!! During the summer when I was hand feeding them they got trusting enough to eat but if I didn't have pellets they weren't interested in being near me. Another thing about alpacas, they don't want you to stand directly facing them. I've heard that as a generalization and it is true of my boys, stand at an angle and they might approach. Now that it is getting warmer I can try again.


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## thistlebloom

Standing facing an animal puts a certain amount of pressure on them.An oblique angle is seen as less threatening.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya might try playing "find the pellet" with them....put it in a pocket and see if they will track it down....it may take a few tries, but work around them paying them no attention and see if  the scent and desire draw them to ya....if it does, be sure to reward them....


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## Bruce

I'm pretty sure they won't get near enough to smell a single pellet in my pocket. Even when they eat out of my hand it is at full neck stretch distance.


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## rachels.haven

That's why they have those necks, isn't it?


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## Baymule

Bruce, we had lamb for supper last night. Leg of lamb to be more specific, sliced, tenderized, seasoned, floured and fried in hog lard. Mmmmm.......... good! I fixed garlic mashed potatoes and gravy to go with it. So yummy! BWA-HA-HA


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir,

I simply cannot understand why you want to live in Vermont, where the weather is boring.  You could be enjoying the exciting weather that I, Miss @Baymule, Miss @frustratedearthmother, Miss @Jesusfreak101, and others will be enjoying today:




Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Me either STA, nothing like thunderstorms, torrential rain, blow the roof off winds and tornadoes to make life fun 



Baymule said:


> Bruce, we had lamb for supper last night. Leg of lamb to be more specific, sliced, tenderized, seasoned, floured and fried in hog lard.


 



Baymule said:


> I fixed garlic mashed potatoes and gravy to go with it.


 

DW spotted a #$%^& woodchuck out in the backyard by the little barn this evening. Time to get out the Havahart. Don't know where this one came from or when it arrived. I was groundhog free last year.


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## Baymule

Tonight we had the rest of the lamb and I made potato patties with the leftover mashed potatoes.


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## CntryBoy777

The chuck could be last year's litter being pushed out to make their own way and territory to establish.....


----------



## Bruce

More than likely. And every time I clear the little buggers out new ones come and say "Whoa! Look at this great property, lots of tunnels and dens. No work at all!"


----------



## Mike CHS

I think Maisy may be digging for one but I haven't found where.  Every time I've seen her today she is about twice as dirty as the last time.


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## Bruce

I hope if she finds it she hasn't dug up a hundred feet of pasture to get there!


----------



## Baymule

And all we've got is gophers...… Our place is deep mined from the dogs digging frantically to get them. Darn gophers. Chucks sound like gophers on steroids.....


----------



## Bruce

Oh yeah. We had gophers when I was a kid in So. Cal. I remember the traps that were set in the holes to kill them as they came out. Woodchucks are easily 8X their size. And of course so are the tunnels and holes. You CAN easily put your foot into a woodchuck hole and damage yourself. The tunnels go 50' to 100' ... and they have several of them. Whole underground networks.


----------



## thistlebloom

We have woodchucks around here, but I am very happy to not ever had one on the property. We do have gophers. We went for about 10 years without seeing any, but they are starting to get a foothold in the lawn, in spite of my Macabee traps. I'm hopeful that our two young cats will be on top of that situation. Finian catches mice daily,and a gopher is basically an underground mouse right?

Hope you are able to trap that chuck quickly!


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## Baymule

Bruce, I know you swoon at my leg of lamb hack into chicken fried steak. I have another lamb hack for you. Our supper tonight, I cut the meat off lamb chops, cubed and marinated it. I picked my first broccoli from the garden, along with green onions, radishes and beet greens. I made a stir fry with the lamb, broccoli and store bought onion. I sautéed the beet greens in butter to see if we liked them, and we did. It was a very good meal, except for the half onion, all home raised. I will cook beet greens again. 






​​
For our own use, I don't want lamb chops anymore. The bones are aggravating. From now on, I just want the backstrap lifted out, cut in 4-5" chunks and vacuum sealed. I'll cut them up the way I want them.


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## CntryBoy777

Ain't it amazing how they can do all that digging and tunneling and we as humans ztruggle to dig a hole because of the rock?.....🤔

@thistlebloom ....2 words.....Fox Terrier

@Baymule I'd sure try em, but certainly would "sample" before serving my plate.....Joyce picked green beans and bell peppers today....we will be better prepared for this fall....quick question...did your loquats hold the fruit for ya to get some?


----------



## Baymule

The loquats froze and didn't make fruit. Pretty tree. Pretty useless.


----------



## farmerjan

Baymule said:


> The loquats froze and didn't make fruit. Pretty tree. Pretty useless.


Maybe next year?   Is your climate that much colder than @CntryBoy777 ?


----------



## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> Maybe next year?   Is your climate that much colder than @CntryBoy777 ?


Oh yeah it is. In Livingston, 160 miles south, where we moved from, a loquat tree would make fruit. Here, nope. It gets just cold enough, just long enough to even freeze a fall/winter garden. In Livingston I had vegetables growing all winter, here, nope. Where @CntryBoy777 is, is much hotter all year than it is here. Our summers are scorching, but our fall, winter and spring seasons are cooler.


----------



## farmerjan

If you have southern exposure and some protection from the wind, the tree might just work there.  My parents retired to NH from Ct years ago.  My mom, before retiring up there about 10 years previous, had planted a magnolia tree that  everyone said would never bloom because it is colder up there, more snow, harder winters.  She planted it on the southern side of the house, and it is in a "nook" of sorts where the house has an L and is protected from the worst of the winter winds.  It blooms, year after year,  and no one can believe it.   They also have some other bush, maybe an azalea that she transplanted up there and it is in that same general "nook" and it also blooms.  They do cover it in the late fall to prevent winter wind damage, and it has survived for years.


----------



## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> If you have southern exposure and some protection from the wind, the tree might just work there.  My parents retired to NH from Ct years ago.  My mom, before retiring up there about 10 years previous, had planted a magnolia tree that  everyone said would never bloom because it is colder up there, more snow, harder winters.  She planted it on the southern side of the house, and it is in a "nook" of sorts where the house has an L and is protected from the worst of the winter winds.  It blooms, year after year,  and no one can believe it.   They also have some other bush, maybe an azalea that she transplanted up there and it is in that same general "nook" and it also blooms.  They do cover it in the late fall to prevent winter wind damage, and it has survived for years.


It blooms in the fall and fruits in the winter. We get some low temps and they last long enough to freeze it. I don't really have a protected spot for it. On the south side of the house is the carport and there isn't room for a tree there.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We had a few trees that weren't covered by the oaks and we had about 3-4hrs of freezing temps and the leaves got burnt by frost....we didn't get many of ours.....squirrels and birds pick em clean, they began ripening when the truck brokedown so the gs was unable to get his lotwats.....  this year....gotta love 3yr olds.....we had quite the crop tho....


----------



## thistlebloom

CntryBoy777 said:


> @thistlebloom ....2 words.....Fox Terrier



🤔 I used to have a Jack Russel terrier... is that close enough?😄
Loved that little rascal, but he was high maintenance for sure. Couldn't take him hiking unless he was leashed or he'd follow his nose and lose us.
He unfortunately and very sadly decided he could whup a coyote pack.

But a Fox Terrier... they're good ratters?


----------



## CntryBoy777

thistlebloom said:


> 🤔 I used to have a Jack Russel terrier... is that close enough?😄
> Loved that little rascal, but he was high maintenance for sure. Couldn't take him hiking unless he was leashed or he'd follow his nose and lose us.
> He unfortunately and very sadly decided he could whup a coyote pack.
> 
> But a Fox Terrier... they're good ratters?


Yep....and they carry the size for chucks too....tenacious and "never say die" attitude when after something....I believe that they are just slightly larger, but comparable to a Jack Russell....they are a terrier and very active....super smart and can be trained....can be nippy, but if pup can be raised with kids....great family dogs.....find things for them to chew on while teething....we have a german shepherd and have allowed her to chew on limbs, pine cones, cardboard boxes, and cutoff bluejean legs with knots in them....we allow her to shred them....they are cheap and readily available, she loves it....and when we leave for an extended period we put a cardboard box down for her and she has never torn up anything in the house....no clothes, shoes, or furniture.....I'm sorry about your Jack, but I sure admire the tenacity and know ya lost a treasured companion....may be time to find another.....


----------



## rachels.haven

Our vicious 10 lbs poodle with the sweetness of a rat trap was a great groundhog dog (and a want to kill people dog, and a want to kill other dogs dog). Going to ground and rooting out vermin was just about the only thing she was good for. You just had to catch her and not get bit before she ran off to go find another dog or a person to bite after she was done. I hated that thing, but it was fun to watch her work. I think you need to borrow a terrier/killing dog for a few days. They are AMAZING (just find a nice, well bred one and never accept a puppy given to you because "she bites").


----------



## thistlebloom

rachels.haven said:


> Our vicious 10 lbs poodle with the sweetness of a rat trap was a great groundhog dog (and a want to kill people dog, and a want to kill other dogs dog). Going to ground and rooting out vermin was just about the only thing she was good for. You just had to catch her and not get bit before she ran off to go find another dog or a person to bite after she was done. I hated that thing, but it was fun to watch her work. I think you need to borrow a terrier/killing dog for a few days. They are AMAZING (just find a nice, well bred one and never accept a puppy given to you because "she bites").



Dh has showed me a few YouTube vids of vermin dogs at work. They are serious and so fast it's amazing! Maybe your little poodle had some Rat Terrier in her background? I do like terriers and my JRT was a great loss as a companion dog. 

We have had several dogs of varying breeds that imagined they were vermin killers, but mostly they were just really good at excavating.
Cats have the patience to sit at a gopher hole for hours just waiting. That's for gophers though, don't think they'd be much of a challenge for a chuck. 
If I end up with a woodchuck I may just invest in a little dynamite.


----------



## rachels.haven

She may have. Personally I think she was just mean, but anything is possible when you accept a puppy mill dog.
Dynamite


----------



## Baymule

Dynamite. I like the way you think!


----------



## Bruce

Finished the mudroom tile install. 

Step 1 - Install the tile separation membrane, needs modified thinset


Step 2 - Install tile, needs unmodified thinset. Yes I DID tile myself into the closet. No way around it, the "must be right" areas are between the doors and around the heat vent. WHY do they put these things in the floor??!?!?? Great "dirt and other stuff" catchers.
  

Step 3 - Find out one tile is way high on one side. And of course it is RIGHT inside the door, not buried in the closet. I had noticed the night before that the right side was high and was able to pull and reset it. Didn't think about the left side I guess. 


Step 4- Remove the high tile, break the left side with a hammer then pop it out with a taping knife. And then notice that the two on the hall side of it were high at the joint so since there was already a gap, pulled those as well. 


When trying to get the tiles reset I discovered that there is a slight hump running from the midline of the single tile and through the joint area of the other two. I mashed the orange plastic waffle down a bit and carefully reset the 3 tiles with no thinset in the hump area. I had used up the full 50# unmodified thinset bag so these went down with the modified stuff, I had only used less than half that bag. Presumably it will take longer to dry so I left the tiles for 2 days before:

Step 5 - Grout and be done


----------



## farmerjan

Looks pretty nice...... beyond my patience to do.   Bet you are glad you are done, and now something nice to look at and be able to utilize that room and clean it easily.  Congrats.


----------



## Bruce

Not beyond my patience but I discovered tiling on the floor is beyond my knees and hips. Funny, that didn't seem to be a problem ~30 years ago when I tiled the bathrooms in the prior house.


----------



## thistlebloom

Looks good!


----------



## Grant

I know the feeling Bruce.  Things I could do all day just 10 years ago hurt for days now.  I can still do them, it just hurts.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Nice job Bruce


----------



## Baymule

Bruce, I tackle a lot of stuff, but even I wouldn’t do tile. I guess I have some sense to know when something is above my pay grade. You did a great job, it looks beautiful. Very nice.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Nice job, Mr. @Bruce!  I can certainly identify with hips and knees whining!


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> I tackle a lot of stuff, but even I wouldn’t do tile.


You could do it Bay! Maybe your knees couldn't  Just for fun watch some YouTube videos on tile installation. Like a lot of things there are some right ways and wrong ways but it isn't particularly complicated.


----------



## Bruce

When I was figuring out how to get the high tile out I checked YouTube (of course). MANY of the videos had an open side on the tiles so they could just hammer a pry bar under. Not useful! Of those that were "in the field" there were 2 camps: "Hit it with a hammer to break it" and "*NEVER* hit it with a hammer". You know what worked but first I tried to cut into the tile with my angle grinder so I could get under it. It stunk up the house and wasn't even particularly effective.

Where I'm going with this is I stunk DD2 out of the house, she went for a walk around the upper fields. I asked how wet it was and she said other than an area next to the natural wetland, it wasn't wet at all. Hard to believe this time of year but yesterday I walked down to the "always wet" low area. It wasn't wet. So I walked to the "logging trail" it was damp but not soggy, no running water like I had back in March after the "big snow" melted but when it was well below freezing for days. 

I took the flail off the tractor so I could more easily get to the draw bar, loaded the tools in the bucket (yes CAREFULLY not dumping them) and went out to the trail, backed in and pulled out the 12' piece of trunk of the tree that I felled across the trail and had cut to get it to drop. I left it at the edge of the field and went back for the rest of it. Got the lighter weight upper trunk out to the field and went back. Blew out an 1,100 pound (supposedly) carabiner holding a pulley to a tree to get the larger upper trunk across the trail so I could turn it down the trail. Had to connect the pulley  directly to the chain around the tree. Got that piece out to the field as well. 

Unloaded the bucket and went back in frontwards and backdragged the trail some. Given it is all soft "soil" it was probably a wasted effort and it will all squish out when I go up the next time. I need to get a lot of stone. The "widowmaker" is still leaning about 100' into the woods from the trail. I ran out of time yesterday afternoon. But I'm hoping Saturday (rain tomorrow) I can go back out with the come alongs and pull the base of the tree back and have it drop. Then I can figure out the best path to get it out to the trail. Maybe tomorrow I'll go to TSC and get a stronger link to connect the pulley. I have just over 200 hours on the tractor and it is time to change the hydraulic fluid so I'll be there anyway.


----------



## Mike CHS

I make sure I have my knee pads whenever I do flooring or tile.  Yours looks great.


----------



## CntryBoy777

One thing ya got lots of is rock....  ....may can relocate it from that pile.....be careful with those trees........the 3 pines laying in the oaks is of concern to me, but not enough room here to work around it without equipment....I did get an estimate on having some done and can get most addressed for 1,000-1200.....they have an $800min just to bring equipment......so, best deal to get it done is to pay a bit more and let them cut and drop and we will take care of disposal....they will use their skidsteer to take logs to whatever area we want them in and drop them....have to have a permit to cut down the oak or pine if they are considered monumental....so, trimming will do for now....


----------



## thistlebloom

Dh sometimes runs into tiles that are different thicknesses. He uses a gauge and sorts them. It slows a job down, but he's a little on the OCD side of flat, square, plumb and level. That's why I'm such a gift to him,  😄 I'm a more 'Looks good enough to me!' kind of person. We balance each other. 

I sure hope you wore kneepads. I use the tile type for gardening when I have to crawl around and weed, or do anything on the ground.

Glad you were able to get some of your trees pulled out. That's a good day.


----------



## farmerjan

Good on getting the trees pulled out while it was drier.  Lets not hope that it is going to be an indicator of a dry season.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

Glad you got your tile fixed, and am glad you got to work in the woods with your tractor!  I'm envious! 

I don't know if you have seen this YouTube video or not -- I discovered it just a few days ago.  I'm glad I watched it.  Maybe it can give you ideas on how to deal with the "widowmaker":





Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

That is an EXTREMELY helpful video STA, thanks! Among the things I learned:

I need to grow a beard
I don't need to use my chainsaw chaps
Eye protection is optional 
No need to back away from the tree as it falls


Nice how well they described the various cuts. Buckin' Billy Ray always seems to use the Humboldt, hardly anyone else I see on YouTube does. I bet that would keep my trees from getting stuck on the stump as they fall since the butt hits the ground first with that one. I am NOT going to try the "back cut first" technique! That looks WAY too dangerous.



CntryBoy777 said:


> One thing ya got lots of is rock.


Yeah but no blasting permit!



CntryBoy777 said:


> have to have a permit to cut down the oak or pine if they are considered monumental


I would say that most of your trees are monumental, they are HUGE in diameter!



thistlebloom said:


> I sure hope you wore kneepads.


You bet I did. 



farmerjan said:


> Good on getting the trees pulled out while it was drier.  Lets not hope that it is going to be an indicator of a dry season.


I was thinking the same thing. Good news now may not be so good later


----------



## Bruce

Yesterday afternoon I went out after the "widowmaker" in the woods. 

I tried to pull the base with the 2 ton comealong. No good, didn't move a bit. 
I tried pulling 90° to the first direction. Same result.
I cut about 8' of the bottom off, that part dropped, the upper part got more vertical top still hung up in other trees and the "butt end" dropped into the ground. Go back to step 1 and 2, same result.
Tied in higher up the remaining part of the tree (i.e. about 6-7') and pulled. The whole thing got more vertical as the top pulled out of the trees it was leaning into. It leaned a bit left, then a bit more so I started slacking on the comealong. It leaned into some different trees but they were less dense and eventually it dropped  
I cut 3 more sections and limbed it. Tall tree but not very large in diameter. Oddly (to me) there were leaf buds opening on the top branches ... from a tree that hadn't had roots since last fall. 
I pulled the upper part out to the pile by the barn, since there was very little weight on the ground it didn't dig a rut. I am using the Quick Hitch like a logging arch to lift and hold the butt end of the logs up off the ground and close to the tractor for "towing". 
Came in to make dinner. 
Today I planned to go back out to get the rest of the pieces but wanted to move a birdhouse from the garden to the NW fence corner by the pond so another pair of tree swallows would hopefully use it. There is one at the SW corner of the pond that has tree swallows every spring. The house was on a post in the garden when we bought the place 8 years ago and has been unused for a couple of years with the post leaning quite a few degrees. I think I figured out why it was unused, the roof had a rotted spot near the back with a hole plenty big enough to let rain in. Not what a mama bird wants for its babies. So I made a new one using the old one as a pattern. Took a few hours of course. Guess I'll get the logs tomorrow ... if I'm willing to brave the 0.08" of rain that may fall between 8 AM and 8 PM 

A few days ago I mentioned DW pointing out a small woodchuck in the back yard near the little barn. I put the Havahart in the unused (bad roof and structure) part of the little barn since there is a tunnel opened up in there next to the foundation. Checked it every day for a few days and nothing. Figured maybe the little one had moseyed along but nope. I looked in the window after locking the chickens up last night and saw the door closed and a dark shape inside. I feel really badly about this little one, it was already dead which means it died of thirst  I want them gone but I don't want them to suffer. I took it out to the woods this afternoon.


----------



## Baymule

I laid our wood floors and had never done floors. I sanded, stained with a whitewash and used a water base polyurethane. It looked good, but the water base polyurethane was a mistake. It has worn. Maybe if we didn’t live on pure sand, making every step sandpaper, it might have worked. So I need to sand, restrain the worn places and use an oil base polyurethane. ......... someday......


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad ya got the tree down without incident........sorry bout the chuck, but at least it won't be doing damage....don't be too hard on yourself....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

CntryBoy777 said:


> Glad ya got the tree down without incident.....



Amen to that!  Did you take any pictures?


----------



## Bruce

Of course not! Maybe I can take a picture of the downed pieces but I don't carry my camera around as a regular habit while I'm working.


----------



## CntryBoy777

....


----------



## Bruce

Pictures, because STA is so demanding 

The pieces of the last widowmaker I dropped. Exclusive of the top I had dragged up to the barn previously



Larger pieces up close and the stump this "tree" and the rest of them came from. Not including the very top of the tree it measured about 75'


And this is what happens when the new "bottom" of the tree drops. No wonder it didn't want to pull sideways with the comealong


My logging "winch" setup, the "road" is fairly dry unlike in March when it was below freezing ?!?!?!? It is worse than it looks with regard to ruts. The green behind the tractor in the middle picture is the neighbor's property, the property line basically runs along the upper part of the picture at that green line though their driveway is between the trees and the grass.
  

And of course one must watch out for the ancient barbed wire (or bob wire for those that say it wrong  )


The pile in the field, cut to "carry length", I've not gone to get it yet. I need to put the mower back on (kinda seen behind the wood pile) and swap the bucket for the forks (*) And the pile by the barn, seems like a LOT of work for not much wood. And it isn't even bucked and split yet! The BIG rotty looking stuff on top are beams that came out of the house in 2013. I finally got around to digging in the pile now that I have a tractor. I had no idea what all was in there, the excavator just put the big stuff where I told him to. The beams that looked to be of some structural value are off to the left where you can't see them 
 

And most of my "herd" of chickens foraging behind the barn, must be the alpacas were in the barn. The chickens mostly won't go out if the alpacas are there.


* And because I'm a wimp, weather warmer than "wind chill below freezing". Might get to it tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Looks like your grass is greening up really good for ya  and I know your feathered "herd" is enjoying it........I don't blame ya for the delay, there is time to do ahead when conditions are more favorable....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir,

Thank you SO MUCH for the pictures!  Keep them coming!  BTW, Mike Morgan would be proud!    I now have a better idea what you are up against.

Did you get any snow from the cold front that came through?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Looks like your grass is greening up really good for ya  and I know your feathered "herd" is enjoying it........I don't blame ya for the delay, there is time to do ahead when conditions are more favorable....


Yep, I might need to get the mower deck on the garden tractor. Not for the area you saw in the pictures but for the lawn around the house.

Just the slightest bit of snow STA, 1/4" maybe? I think Mike should send me his logging winch  Of course he now has tractors again, probably thought he had died not having any tractors for a couple of weeks, so I guess he won't give it to me.

And then there were 21. Zorra died this morning, she was a month shy of 8 years. She's been off by herself during the day the last few weeks and not interested in morning BOSS or evening scratch so I knew she was fading. Last night she was in the closed nest box instead of up on the roost, same thing Yue (same 2012 batch of chicks) did last fall so I figured she would similarly live only a couple more weeks.

But this morning she had (I assume) a heart attack right outside the barn when I was tossing out BOSS and feed. Fell over right in front of me, I picked her up and she died almost immediately. Frankly I'd rather that than to find her just dead somewhere, I know she didn't suffer.

Zorra would go broody a few times a year and raised many of the remaining 21 girls.

This is her last June


----------



## farmerjan

Sorry for the loss of your hen.  I know they are much more like family than mine are,  and that you don't look at them as salvageable for meat after a few years of laying when they fall off.  And yes, at least you know what and when and that she just went quick.


----------



## rachels.haven

Toast to the life of Zorra! Off to chicken Valhalla! May she raise millions and they conquer the grain mills of heaven together forever.


----------



## B&B Happy goats




----------



## Bruce

Hi Barb


----------



## Bruce

I've been messing with the stupid pool and getting the garden started. I can kinda see the bottom of the pool so the suspended dirt is slowly clearing out. I've managed to get all the pine needles off the bottom. Garden has been cleared of weeds. Spinach and peas just starting to come up. Planted the Sun Gold cherry tomato and the 4 celery plants today.

Got a picture of the Tree Swallows at their house


and while I have no pictures there is definitely a robin's nest on the main beam under the back deck. Every time I walk by the bird takes off even though I'm probably 10' from it and it is at my knee level. I wouldn't even know the bird was there if it didn't come blasting out.

Also noticed that the barn swallows must be getting close to laying eggs in their nest in the barn alley right in front of the chicken coop. There were some visible feathers sticking out. 

Got a new accessory for the tractor. I've been needing something to carry "equipment" other than in the bucket, especially when I'd rather have the forks on for "logging". There is a thing called "The Big Tool Rack" that can hold a lot of stuff, very versatile, but it is: 

really expensive
rides on the 3 point so pulling with the draw bar would be difficult and I couldn't use the quick hitch to drag logs like a logging arch
has nice retractable legs on wheels that work quite well for people with concrete floor equipment sheds for storage (which I don't have). 
So instead I got this Tractor Caddy from TractorMike. It can't hold near as much as the Big Tool Rack and only 40 pounds at that (though I suspect it is sturdy enough to hold more, it seems quite well built). I don't need to carry the chainsaw on it since I made a holder that is mounted on the left side of the operator station. And I no longer need to carry gas and oil since the Echo has a much larger capacity than the little Stihl. So I should be able to carry the other stuff I need on the caddy. I had to move the mount for the "slow vehicle" sign, it was low on the left where I put the bracket for the caddy. The tray is mounted with 4 clevis pins so easily removed when I want to use the backhoe. Note that they don't have a snazzy color scheme, it is gloss black, the sun did funny things to it color wise.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We had a nest of wrens to flege this past week and many other birds fledging too....the wrens were in the carport and had 3 that came from the nest.....I know the tool rack will be a big help to ya and 40# of tools, sure beats none.... 🤣


----------



## Bruce

Everything happens sooner down south! The swallows usually fledge the first or second week of July.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> And of course one must watch out for the ancient barbed wire (or bob wire for those that say it wrong  )



Bob wire is still sayin' it wrong. If'n you're gonna say it wrong, get the wrong way right. 
Pay atttention:


*BOB WAHR

*


----------



## Baymule

I'm sorry about Zorra. I know your chickens are pets and they mean a lot to you. that is a long life for a chicken.


----------



## thistlebloom

Black can be a snazzy color scheme. It's elegantly understated, and classic.  
Of course it's really gonna show the dust!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> instead I got this Tractor Caddy from TractorMike.



Let us know how that works out for you, as I have been considering getting a tool rack for my tractor (IF I ever get it back).


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> BOB WAHR


Oh, my mistake! Of COURSE it would rhyme with Fahr!!



thistlebloom said:


> Black can be a snazzy color scheme. It's elegantly understated, and classic.
> Of course it's really gonna show the dust!


Oh, I didn't think of that. I should probably put it back in the box


----------



## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> Oh, I didn't think of that. I should probably put it back in the box



Just make a little slip cover for it. Something complementary to the color of your tractor though. Or you could go with something in a basic understated elegant black shade. Does black have shades?


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Do you think, Mr. @Bruce, that your black tool rack will be attractive to your loader bucket?  Of course, with one at one end of the tractor and the other at the other end of the tractor, they will never get a chance to meet!


----------



## Bruce

The bucket is currently on a pallet in front of the barn, if I open the doors to the "tractor bay" the rack can see the bucket. I haven't seen any evidence of it being attracted though 



thistlebloom said:


> Just make a little slip cover for it. Something complementary to the color of your tractor though.


OH!! I just need to find some Mahindra Red fabric and I'll be all set


----------



## Bruce

So about that garden tractor. I didn't use it this winter to move snow because the winch that lifts the blower is broken. But I did start it every few weeks. The last time I tried (probably some time in Feb or March) it went "Click" and that was it. I thought maybe the battery was low so I put it on the charger. Took the charger off the next day. Don't recall if I tried to start it.

A couple of weeks ago I decided it was time to mow. "Click", then nothing. Checked the battery, fine. Tried a bunch of different stuff including messing with the seat switch. I took it out and reinstalled it several times, I checked for power on the wires the module connects to. But even the headlights would not go on, no lights on the switch went on. So I figured the electronic switch module had gone bad and ordered a new one. It will arrive Saturday. 

But yesterday I figured there must be some way to bypass the switch. I found some YouTube videos but the one that was closest had spade connectors on the back, mine has 2 plugs each with about 8 wires going into it so nothing matched. I tried connecting the red power wire to the one marked coil. And a few other pins as well. Nothing. I thought maybe there were other connections that had to be made through the switch module so I put it back in. Sat on the seat and et voila, the blue light came on. It didn't do that when I was messing with it before I ordered the replacement. So I tried the start sequence - "Click". OK, so maybe it is the solenoid. I tried jumping past it, nothing. 

I found a video with a number of common things to test. Since jumping the solenoid didn't start it I got to the starter. Maybe it was bad. The video said sometimes the starter gets stuck and turning the engine counterclockwise could free it. I was able to do that. "Click". So I looked at the starter, there were 2 small head bolts underneath headed up, figured they must hold the starter in. Indeed they were LONG bolts (those of you who know about these things can now say "NO!!!!!" or  or just cover your eyes). I pried a bit on the case and a round plate dropped out. Then the part of the starter that has the 4 brushes. And of course the brushes all came out of their slide spots on the springs. No way I could manage to put that back on from underneath. It took a fair bit of time just to get them all into their spots and held there with a 3/4" copper pipe connector. Can't see a thing from underneath the tractor. 

At this point I'm thinking I'm well on my way to a Zinger™ award when I would have to call someone to put my machine back together. So what the heck, might as well keep digging!! I took off some plastic shrouds and found the actual bolts that hold the starter onto the engine. Hex key and unlike EVERY other bolt I had taken out these were metric ?!? Got it off, got the brushes back on and the plate put back on all held together with the long bolts "phew". I managed to get enough wires connected to the battery to give the starter some juice, it kicked hard. Figured at this point there was no way I could hold it and see what it was doing so I put it back on the engine. Reconnected the wire to the solenoid, sat on the seat, did the start sequence and it STARTED! 

I have NO idea what I did that fixed it but I took advantage of the fact that it would run and put the deck on, mowed the lawn after dinner (boy did it need it!) before the tractor changed its mind. About the only thing I did right was to grease the deck and sharpen the blades then put them back on after I took the deck off last fall. It was ready to go.

If anyone who understands this sort of thing can tell me how I fixed it and what I should look for or do the next time, I'm all eyes.


----------



## CntryBoy777

....well, I was always told to Never "look a gift horse in the mouth"..  ..and I was gonna ask if ya checked the brushes when ya had them out....🤣....when I was reading, I had the thought it'd end with it being a blown fuse........but, it was probably a loose or bad connection that ya found during your "adventure".....sounds like ya won't have to worry bout those issues for awhile.....
Explaining "things" was something GB did pretty well....


----------



## farmerjan

Often times the brushes are the problem with the starter on the various vehicles..... have had them cleaned and had them replaced.  I suspect that it was in the brushes, maybe needing some cleaning, and them falling out and then you having to reinstall might have done it.  But, I am not a mechanic;  just what I have heard over time.


----------



## Bruce

The brushes looked great but we'll go with that 
Is it possible for the started to get "stuck" internally? It is just a small electric motor winding, powerful magnets and the brushes. I guess it could be a loose connection though again the one going to the solenoid was tight and the ones connected to the brushes were all good.


----------



## farmerjan

I have been told that the brushes do "stick"  whatever that means.  Again, it is just what I have heard.... but hey, you fixed it even if it is temporary, it got the lawn mowed.....


----------



## CntryBoy777

Some problems can be from the bendix or windings of the armeture...if continuity is broken in a winding then it can't be rebuilt or if the shaft of the armeture is bent it can't, but most other parts and pieces can be replaced....not many wish to spend the time to answer the "why" question....so, it is "locate" the problem and change the part mostly today....most parts are sealed anyway these days....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> But even the headlights would not go on, no lights on the switch went on. So I figured the electronic switch module had gone bad and ordered a new one. It will arrive Saturday.



The brushes in the starter being bad would explain why it would not start, but it would not explain why the lights wouldn't come on.  You may have multiple problems.  For the time being it sounds like everything is working fine, and you may have even solved the problem permanently, but the problem(s) may come back.  Replacing the control switch may fix the initial problem of no power to the lights.  The brushes being stuck in the "up" position may be fixed with your disassembly/reassembly.  I hope so.  Keep us up-to-date.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## thistlebloom

If things stop working again, just unscrew a few parts and drop them. I think that's the key.


----------



## Bruce

Maybe I could just whack the starter case. Somewhere in the depths of my mind I THINK I remember that is something people do.


----------



## Bruce

Finally got the garden planting done . And it isn't even all that big a garden. Supposed to get some rain this afternoon. Seems unlikely at the moment given there is more clear than cloud up there. There is a severe storm warning over in NY with big hail. By the radar it looks to be heading this way. Hopefully we'll be on the edge of it rather than in the direct path. I don't need the garden pelted with hail.


----------



## farmerjan

We used to have to get down under the one truck and smack the starter with a hammer as the brushes stuck .... did it for several months til he got a new one put on it.... Sometimes I have to smack the starter on the Farmall H .....


----------



## CntryBoy777

Bruce said:


> Maybe I could just whack the starter case. Somewhere in the depths of my mind I THINK I remember that is something people do.


 ....that reminds me of when we were kids.....we had a tv, a zenith in a metal cabinet....tubes in the back, type....the signals back then were a challenge and for some reason ya had to manipulate the v-hold adjustment.....it use to make my dad really Mad and he would walk up to it and whack the top with his fist and slam his hands against the sides........it lasted for yrs, but the cabinet was bent and dented from the whacking.....my dad wouldn't give it up til tubes got harder to find and transitors was the "way to go".....hey....ya just never know, I can't "swear" to it...but I have "followed suit" and done my share of banging....didn't work everytime, but was sure Thankful when it did....🤣


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> he would walk up to it and whack the top with his fist and slam his hands against the sides


Everyone did that, it was how you "adjusted" the set! Though I don't think we ever bashed hard enough to dent the case. I recall going to SavOn drug store to test tubes and buy replacements for bad ones. I suspect a lot of people here on BYH do as well.


----------



## CntryBoy777

How did the pond "winter" Bruce?.....did it hold water?...the ground dry out enough to get more wood out to working station?.....


----------



## Bruce

It held water fine, full to the top all winter and into spring. Then we had no rain for about 3 weeks and warm (for us this time of year) temps and it has gone down. But more rain this week and it has gone up some. I guess that means it is holding  Of course after seeing it at its high point I wish I had dug a little wider in some spots. Oh well, if we get another super dry winter again some time I can look at doing that. 

I brought in all the wood I had cut when it was so dry but been busy with the garden and other things. Just started bucking to 16" today. I have determined that the Echo CS-590 is far too powerful and aggressive for the smaller limbs (say < 4"). I'll put those on the sawbuck and cut them with the little Stihl MS180.


----------



## Bruce

Got 2 yellow pepper and 4 orange pepper plants to replace those that got hit with frost a few days ago and got them planted. Noticed DW's zucchini got hit as well, it looked OK a couple of days ago. Supposed to rain and get extra hot (for us mid 80s) tomorrow so I decided to mow the lawn this afternoon. Garden tractor started right up  I drove out of the barn, engaged the mower deck and .....
the belt blew  I just can't get a break with that machine! Now waiting until mid month for the new belt to arrive. Until then I either use the string trimmer to make paths to the places I have to go or put the flail on the real tractor and do what I can. I'm afraid at this time of year 2 more weeks of growth will be too much for the GT deck.


----------



## CntryBoy777

i guess they haven't developed the "flex seal" belt mender yet??...
Ya may checkout CL and see if there are any used woods mower or small bush hog....sometimes ya can catch something decent for a good price.....if ya measure the belt ya may can get by with a fan belt from auto parts store....


----------



## thistlebloom

We just bought our first ever riding mower. Dh has been talking about it every summer for a couple of years. He's enjoying it. The lawn mowing went from 40 minutes (for him, 50 for me) to 20. Seated is a big bonus. I don't suppose I'll get a turn at mowing for a long while. I'll have to be okay with that .


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> i guess they haven't developed the "flex seal" belt mender yet??...
> Ya may checkout CL and see if there are any used woods mower or small bush hog....sometimes ya can catch something decent for a good price.....if ya measure the belt ya may can get by with a fan belt from auto parts store....


145" V belt. I don't know how many vehicles use a fan belt that long! The GT has no PTO so any woods or bush hog would have to have a gas engine on it. Might as well pull the 5' flail with the real tractor  I got the string trimmer out yesterday and made some paths to the places I need to go without needing to put on boots. The mower belt has "shipped" but USPS is still waiting for the package. It is coming from some auto parts place in Ohio ... which suggests, as you did, that maybe I should have checked at Advance Auto instead of Tractor Supply.


----------



## farmerjan

I have gotten to be a big shopper on EBay.... not all the parts are from China either..... have gotten some stuff from US suppliers for my little trucks and all.  I like EBay better than Amazon..... and it is not all just for "auction" stuff... I buy my sneakers  6 pair at a time and the ones I like are probably a "closeout" item now.  Used to get them in JC Penney.... then they quit carrying this style in the store, but could get them from them online.  Now still get them though a couple of different shoe  dealers.....shoebecca (I think) is one that is great, fast shipping, good prices.  I am not a "shopper" like many women, so the shipped to me is great.....and when I find something I like, I stick with it.....


----------



## Bruce

Yeah, the "issue" with eBay is trust in the seller. The one thing I've gotten with some regularity is HID headlight bulbs for the second gen Prius(s), we still have 2. OEM bulbs in the box for less than half what Toyota charges.


----------



## Bruce

The belt for the GT mower deck made it to Westborough, MA 2 days ago. USPS is still waiting to receive it. Since I had the flail on the real tractor (see my entry on Mike's journal just now) I decided to mow the tallest/thickest part of the lawn since it will be a bit much for the GT once that belt shows up. Got done what I wanted AND made an amazing discovery! A compact tractor with a 5' flail hanging off the back isn't exactly a Z turn mower. Not even a garden tractor mower


----------



## thistlebloom

It's exciting to learn new stuff!


----------



## Baymule

Hope you get the belt soon. My husband would try duct tape.


----------



## thistlebloom

Baymule said:


> Hope you get the belt soon. My husband would try duct tape.



I heard that in a pinch you could substitute pantyhose for a broken fan belt.

That makes so many funny images pop up in my head that I'm trying not to laugh out loud. Too hard to explain to dh who already suspects I'm half a bubble off level.


----------



## Bruce

Well y'all, we have to stop teasing @Senile_Texas_Aggie about coming to our houses and causing chaos with our machinery. Maybe he'll stop if we are nice to him 

The belt came today. I went out to put it on the deck. Had to remove the plastic shields from the outer pulleys but didn't have to take the deck off to do that. Went to thread the belt around the pulleys and .... the idler pulley was blown apart. I don't know if the pulley blowing destroyed the belt or the belt blowing destroyed the pulley but no mowing is going to happen until the pulley shows up (in a couple of weeks) from one vendor and the nut that holds it onto the bolt from another. 

Of course I had to pull the deck to get access to that area. That nut did NOT want to come off, not even with a cheater bar. So I had to remove the entire bracket and put it in the vice so I could NOT remove the nut but rounded off the thing instead. I had to use the angle grinder (cheap Harbor Freight purchase last year that so far has been more than worth the small amount it cost) to cut the nut on two sides making a nice flat surface on each side. Came right off with a crescent wrench.


----------



## thistlebloom

Throw some wildflower seeds in your lawn and call it a meadow.


----------



## Bruce

Actually there is a section of the field just north of the barn I would like to turn into a bee/butterfly/hummingbird garden. It has some large rocks and ledge and a lot of slope down to the west. Not easy to mow.


----------



## Baymule

Your luck seems to run to the bad luck side a lot lately. Weeks for delivery...….


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Well y'all, we have to stop teasing @Senile_Texas_Aggie about coming to our houses and causing chaos with our machinery. Maybe he'll stop if we are nice to him
> 
> The belt came today. I went out to put it on the deck. Had to remove the plastic shields from the outer pulleys but didn't have to take the deck off to do that. Went to thread the belt around the pulleys and .... the idler pulley was blown apart. I don't know if the pulley blowing destroyed the belt or the belt blowing destroyed the pulley but no mowing is going to happen until the pulley shows up (in a couple of weeks) from one vendor and the nut that holds it onto the bolt from another.
> 
> Of course I had to pull the deck to get access to that area. That nut did NOT want to come off, not even with a cheater bar. So I had to remove the entire bracket and put it in the vice so I could NOT remove the nut but rounded off the thing instead. I had to use the angle grinder (cheap Harbor Freight purchase last year that so far has been more than worth the small amount it cost) to cut the nut on two sides making a nice flat surface on each side. Came right off with a crescent wrench.



That's OK, Mr. @Bruce, about the teasing.  I got a real chuckle about all the different stories on Mr. @Mike CHS's journal about how I had visited several different places to bring a bit of fun.  

Wow about the idler pulley!  If it's not one thing, it's another, it seems.  I hope you can get it fixed with no problems.


----------



## Baymule

@Bruce, I have another lamb hack, not as bad as converting leg of lamb into chicken fried steak, but still a redneck hack. On my cutting instructions I wrote, Forget about lamb chops. Just lift out the backstrap like a deer and cut in 3/4" slices. 

I cooked some tonight and they were delicious. No bone, no connective tissue, just little medallions of yummy.


----------



## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> I had to use the angle grinder (cheap Harbor Freight purchase last year that so far has been more than worth the small amount it cost) to cut the nut on two sides making a nice flat surface on each side. Came right off with a crescent wrench.



One of those Harbor Freight angle grinders is my go to tool for fast work on the sheep hooves.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> No bone, no connective tissue, just little medallions of yummy.


Which you then Chicken Fry!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Hey, Mr. @Bruce, sir!

I have been catching up on my YouTube videos after getting behind when I had all the fun with the water line.  I watched this and immediately thought of you.  Did you know about these kinds of tools for removing stuck/rusted out/rounded off bolts and nuts?


----------



## Bruce

That is new to me, sounds like I should get some. Might have worked on the headlight leveler sensor on DW's car. Talk about rust, 13 years of road travel. Had to have my local mechanic get it off. I was careful not to strip it since I was pretty sure I was not going to be successful.


----------



## Bruce

I got all the parts to fix my garden tractor mower deck. Got it all put together. I knew a front tire has a slow leak so figured I might as well find that and plug it before testing the mower. Can't plug it, it is a really thin slit on the sidewall so while I can mow if I put air in the tire first every time, I need to ge a new tire.


----------



## farmerjan

@Bruce  why not take it and get a tube put in it?  They can put a patch inside on the sidewall to strengthen it a bit, then put a tube in it.  We put tubes in tires all the time if the tread is still decent.  Since it is not a car on the road, if the leak is a slow one, they ought to be able to "cement" a patch on the inside.  On road vehicle tires they won't do.... liability and all and I get that.  But a slow leak in a tractor or mower tire ought to be fixable.


----------



## Bruce

I guess it would depend on how much a new tire would cost compared to having it patched and tubed.


----------



## Bruce

Put the bucket on the tractor and moved 3 buckets of 'Paca Poo to the 3 bay compost bins. There is a fairly significant rise going up to the north end of the barn from the pond side. The boys originally started their pile 4 years ago at the south end of the barn and it has been slowly moved to the north end, then uphill to just outside the double doors. Does it surprise anyone that 'Paca Poo doesn't yield great traction??

I dug some of the excavated pond "soil" out of the pile and put it down where I got the 'Paca Poo so I could get up the hill. I also dug out the area between the north end of the pond and the fence. I used to be able to get the garden tractor through there (dicey though) before I dug the pond but when the pile oozed during dredging it went north and west and filled in a section to the fence. Now I can mow around the pond with the real tractor. Of course there is now nothing TO mow on the north end but I suspect the grass and weeds won't take long to grow back.

Had a barn swallow nest (somewhere) fledge. The 5 babies started showing up for fly by feeding

 here is #5 sitting on the deck 
and Christofur enjoying the birds


There is another nest of 5 babies just about ready to fledge in the barn alley. Same area as every year since 2012 (first summer we owned the place). They rebuilt the nest from last year then for some reason abandoned that and built a new one on the next joist over.

One of the hens decided to "decorate" her egg. I have made no modification for this picture other than moving the egg from the nest to the basket.


----------



## Mike CHS

I would love to see an explanation for that modified egg.


----------



## CntryBoy777

That's unique about the egg.......we have a 2nd hatching of wrens here....the mom is busy all day tending and feeding to this batch...she fledged 4 the 1st time and will have to see how many come out this time.........better to be on the tractor in the "poo" trying to find traction" than standing in it hoping the boots are tall enough....


----------



## thistlebloom

I think you better stick a nest cam in your coop! That was some creative hen.


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## frustratedearthmother

How bizarre!


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## Baymule

What do you do with the alpaca poo? Do you raise a garden? The Sheep poo we put on the garden in January and tilled in is making the garden grow! We recently cleaned it out again and spread on pastures, then got 2 1/2” of rain on it. We never spread it on pastures before, kinda excited to see the results.


----------



## Bruce

Mostly I've not done anything with the 'paca poo. In the past they just sort of moved the pile along by using the end of it and the weather, chickens and grasses dealt with it. Lately they've been pooping inside  and just outside the door not moving the pile along so it is building up and STINKY. So I put some in the compost bins. There are 3 - 4' deep and 5' wide. Hopefully something will come of it for the garden. To date the bin we have been using (kitchen compost, weeds, etc) hasn't been doing much. I bought a thermometer and it is running cold, 80° sometimes 90° when it should be like 120°. I think I need to mix it a lot more often.



Mike CHS said:


> I would love to see an explanation for that modified egg.


The plastic egg comes apart and I guess sometimes a laid egg ends up in one half of the egg. How an egg got BOTH halves I do not know. But it won't happen again with that egg, I put a piece of lead 'something' inside and superglued it.


----------



## Bruce

Paca poo and pee from outside the barn door and from below


 

The new "track" on the north side of the pond. Before the work the entire upper 3rd was covered with the pond sludge and weeds sloping to the fence. Note the chicken halfway down the track. They are afraid of Teddy, he chases them.

The pond is going down a lot with our lack of rain. Got some earlier this week and HS Fay gave us some more this morning


Some of the hens lounging in the barn alley


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. Bruce, sir!

I was watching the YouTube channel "Colorado Mountain Living" and in one video Miss Amy mentioned that they were visiting her parents who reside near Georgia, VT.  If I remember correctly, that is just south of you.  Below is the video.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

VERY just south, the next town south!!!

All projects yesterday were a major fail.

Vacuumed the stupid pool - it was murkier after vacuuming than before
Made Champlain sourdough bread per the new recipe, 2.5" high should be 5"  The only time it was a bit higher was the last time when I doubled the starter AND added some yeast. It was still nowhere near as high as it should be. 


Made the King Arthur basic sourdough ... the top collapsed when I moved it (prior to baking) to make room for the very hot dutch oven with the Champlain bread. I haven't cut it yet. 

                                                                    compare to the first time I made it                     


Spent 2 hours getting the front left tire off the garden tractor. I had bought a tube to put in it. After 2 hours I had gotten no further than the bead on one side of the tire being freed. Took another 1/2 hour this afternoon to get the other bead free then 1.5 more to get the tube in.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sorry for the difficulties and I sure couldn't be of assistance with the pool or bread....unless it was to help eat a "mistake"....I have ate many thru my life....🤣....I could help with the tire, and haven't had too many problems with busting the bead....must've been glued or sealed with something........sure hope ya have a much Better day tomorrow....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Some days it just doesn't pay to get outta bed... Sorry for the troubles.


----------



## Baymule

Paca poo sure would be good for the garden! I mine the sheep barn for poo and spread on the garden and pastures. 

The bread looks good, rise or no rise. Get some jam and start enjoying! Yum!


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## thistlebloom

I think your bread looks great too! I fancy myself sort of a bread baker (is that ambivalent enough?) I used to make some killer sourdough but lost my starter and haven't attempted again for years.

That PacaPoo is very valuable stuff. I used to get truckloads from a neighbor with llamas and alpacas and it was amazing. No need to compost it either. You should be putting it in your garden!


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## thistlebloom

The neighbors let me drive through the pasture and load up from the community piles. They sure are nosy creatures! I was warned that might chew on my truck, but they didn't. They did seem amused by the mirrors though.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Sorry for the difficulties and I sure couldn't be of assistance with the pool or bread....unless it was to help eat a "mistake"....I have ate many thru my life....🤣....I could help with the tire, and haven't had too many problems with busting the bead....must've been glued or sealed with something........sure hope ya have a much Better day tomorrow....


OK, if I ever have to do it again I'll call you and tell you what I'm doing and you can tell me what I SHOULD be doing 

Steps

jack up the corner of the tractor
take tire off the tractor
let air out of the tire
cut the valve stem off
put tire on the ground
spray some lube on part of the bead
stand on the tire (holding on to something) heels together near the lubed area and "knead" it with your heels
press & rock harder and say a few choice words
start jumping on it
decide the guy in the YouTube video's 250+ weight might be a factor, I'm only about 190
get out the screwdrivers and tire irons and work and work and work until FINALLY the bead releases
turn tire over and start again at step 6


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Get some jam and start enjoying!


That is what I'm doing for breakfast  along with store sausage and eggs from the barn. The sandwich bread is fine if not quite as high as usual. This recipe is especially easy though it uses a full 2 cups of sourdough starter. Knead with the KitchenAid mixer for about 7 minutes. Let rise in a bowl for about an hour, shape into a loaf and put in the pan. Let rise another hour or two until it is about 1" above the top of the pan and bake. 

The Champlain is time intensive. Mix everything together the night before. "stretch and fold" every 1/2 hour about 4 times (kinds puts a damper on getting much done outside!). Form into a ball and put in a basket (which I don't have) or a tea towel lined bowl. Let rise an hour or two or .... bake in a preheated dutch oven (which I do now have). I've made it 4 times and not once have I gotten close to what it SHOULD look like!

The twin 6V lantern batteries that run the auto door for the chickens died yesterday. The door lets them out of the coop and into the barn alley every morning. I don't even know how long they have been there, probably at least 3 years; far longer than I would have expected. I'm charging an old 12V from a Prius (they are small since they don't have to crank a starter motor) to see if it will hold a charge. If so it will move to the barn. If not it is off to WallyWorld for 6Vs since I don't know anywhere else to find them.


----------



## Bruce

thistlebloom said:


> The neighbors let me drive through the pasture and load up from the community piles. They sure are nosy creatures!


Mine are not near as friendly as those! Though they do want to see what is going on. And the stupid animals keep thinking it is OK to poop and pee in the barn at night even though they have 24 hour access (they have been excluded the last 2 nights) or just outside the barn door even though I keep shoveling it away expecting they will use where I put it as their pile and dumped about 15 pounds of stall dry on it then covered the area with hay. And when they pee I swear they could fill a 5 gallon bucket.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Something that I do it ride on the tire with very low air or flat until it breaks, but I normally use the handle ends of a couple of crescent wrenches and work it off....I've never cut the valve stem off a tubed tire, and when replacing the tube, only 1 side of tire has to be lifted.....I would think that a auto parts store or batteries plus store could help with the 6v batteries....


----------



## Bruce

Hadn't thought about riding on it flat. So I should have skipped the jumping on it part? They guy did have other good suggestions like the fact that those rims are fairly cheap and can have rough welds or other "pointy" bits inside that need to be filed off. I found several. It WAS a tubeless tire, OEM on the tractor. Easy to get all the air out that way and it has to be cut off at some point.

I don't specifically need 6V batteries, I need 12V but 2 6V lantern batteries in series are a lot cheaper than a 12V tractor or other battery.


----------



## thistlebloom

Sorry to laugh at your tire and alpaca troubles Bruce, but you shouldn't make it so funny!


----------



## Bruce

Well someone has to laugh with me, right? Only I'm not laughing 

Got the car battery hooked up to the auto door. The light turns green saying there is power. The door doesn't do anything. I guess I have to open the controller box and .... well look at it and hope something fixes itself. Oh, and then I tested the paired 6V lantern batteries - 11.7V, they can probably still run the door.  

I did make headway on a project today. Sorry no before pictures but I moved the old piece of deck that was in the enclosed area near the north end of the barn, stuck it over behind the little barn and did some stabilization. Let's just say it wasn't very stable where it has been the last 7 years. I got some new posts under it so it is basically level, the far end was already cross braced. I will cross brace the new posts tomorrow and take a picture. 

The plan is that it will provide some shade for the girls other than the small tree between the barns. They could go out under the lilac bush behind the little barn but if the alpacas come out, the girls all run back between or into the barn. Hopefully they will be able to get to and from the new shade spot safe from the alpacas.


----------



## Bruce

Chicken shade area finished. I suppose I could put tarps on 3 sides to block the wind when it gets colder. I put a sheet of roofing off the south side to increase the shade area. I know it doesn't look like it but it is level.




It was over here


You can see where it was near the north end of the big barn from this Google aerial shot. It is now behind and perpendicular to the little barn


----------



## Bruce

Apparently I have "inherited" another effing woodchuck. I was in the workshop in the north end of the barn and heard a lot of rustling in the other end. I opened the door closest to that end and looked over into what was originally the hay mow many many decades ago. Saw something dark (in the mostly dark) scuttle into a woodchuck hole dug several years ago. I went and got the Havahart and got squeaked/whistled at from the hole  Will check in the AM.

I think I have the chicken door working. The 12V car battery wasn't cutting it and only held 11.7V. So I went to Wallyworld today and got 2 more 6V lantern batteries. I debated getting the expensive ($7.50) 3X ones but went with the pair of (I guess 1X) for $6.75. Figured if the unit was shot I didn't want to have a lot of money in batteries I don't need. 

Well the door didn't work though the battery status light did briefly come on green. So I got down on my knees with two 2 thin wires and put power right on the motor terminals and the door moved. I ended up having to do that a couple more times then the door seemed to work as designed with the magnet. I'll check at close up time and the real test will be if the chickens meet me at the barn door (and maybe a few up at the gate) in the morning.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm sure there is a purpose for the woodchucks but I'm not sure what it is.  I took one out a couple of days ago and I found a carcass out in one of the paddocks that evidently the dogs had killed.  That explains why they didn't eat their dog food that day.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Hope ya get the dang critter..........I detest electrical issues, sometimes tracking them down will drive ya nuts....tho, if the wires got it working, it has to be the wires or some switch in the circuit...


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

I hope you can take care of the groundhog.  I have never had to deal with them, so cannot offer any advice.  But I bet that groundhog's days of a peaceful life are numbered.

Good diagnosis on the barn door opener.  As Mr. @CntryBoy777 said, electrical problems can be a pain to figure out at times.  Good luck it getting it solved.


----------



## thistlebloom

Mike CHS said:


> I'm sure there is a purpose for the woodchucks but I'm not sure what it is.



Dog food apparently!


----------



## Bruce

No chuck in the trap yet today. 

I dug up some dirt in the area I want to level out and stone so I have somewhere at least MOSTLY level to store my cord wood racks. I have 4 corner stakes with level lines on them so I can now get the manual landscape rake and kinda sorta make it level before I get the stone to spread. Of course I first need to find stone and someone to move it but I'm sure there are plenty of people who do that sort of thing.

Then I went out back to where the deck piece had been and moved some dirt from the pond dredging up onto that steep part going up to the north end of the barn. When we bought the place there was a fence piece that went from the corner of the barn to the cheesy fence they had up. There was a drop of about 18" from the barn side to the low side. I pulled that piece of fence out when I added the fence extension that included the north barn doors. The alpacas kinda smoothed out the drop off but it was still somewhat of a steep drop down. Not sure why someone would want to lead their horses out past 15' of fence then downhill to a gate into the fenced area rather than just open the doors and let them into the paddock/pasture directly. Anyway I added dirt and back dragged it so now it is more of a smooth slope down to where I dug out between the pond and fence a couple of weeks ago.


----------



## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> I have 4 corner stakes with level lines on them so I can now get the manual landscape rake and kinda sorta make it level before I get the stone to spread.



I'm shocked that you aren't screeding it. Did you learn nothing from my journal?


----------



## Bruce

I thought your DH was going to come do it!

Of course then I'd have to box in the sides with wood. That isn't in the plan THOUGH long term I'd like to make it about 10x36 pole barn, basically just a roof on poles so the rain and snow would stay off the wood and the wind could still blow through to dry it.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Pictures, Mr. @Bruce!  We want pictures!  (A YouTube channel video would be nicer, but that probably isn't happening any time soon.)


----------



## Bruce

The stone was delivered today. I was using the tractor to spread it out



And I earned a double Zinger Award ™. I was going back and forth in the area where the tractor is now, heard an odd thunk a couple of times and a funny dip on the left side. Nothing is flat so I figured I was just crossing a hole. But I didn't like that thunk, thought maybe something under the tractor was somehow damaged. Nope, left rear wheel had only 1 bolt in it and wasn't centered on the hub owing to the location of the remaining bolt.. 
  

Note that the only bolt actually attaching the wheel to the tractor is the one at 2 o'clock. I slipped other "not quite big enough" bolts into other holes to hold it in place and tightened down the one remaining bolt. I found only 1 bolt on the ground very well stripped. It was over to the right in the first picture when I had been going in from that (the east) end.



Note to self and others - just because all the bolts are there and feel tight by hand, they may not be. Again EVERY other wheel bolt on the tractor clicked the torque wrench set to 94 ft-pounds. I don't recall the last time I checked them with the torque wrench after losing 3 and having 3 loose ones the first time this happened after being pretty good about it for a couple of months and finding them all tight, but I have looked to see that they are all present. My guess is there are 4 stripped bolts somewhere in the fenced area since that is where I last used the tractor to mow. The odd thing is that even with only 2 bolts, one loose, one VERY loose, the tractor didn't "feel" odd at all. 

I think I've really done it this time though. The holes in the rim look elongated and I think there is probably damage to the threaded part the bolts go in to. No idea how much this is going to cost but I bet it will be a lot. I guess I have to make some lemonade out of this. At least it didn't happen out in the field but right up by the parking area where the dealer can get it on a trailer. AND at least the wheel didn't fall off dropping the axle down to the ground.


----------



## thistlebloom

Ouch! Sorry to hear about your tractor trials. Also glad to hear that you weren't out in an inaccessible location and the whole wheel didn't come off.
Those darn tractors!


----------



## farmerjan

Sorry to hear it.  Yeah, it might be expensive.  And yes, the good thing it is right where you could get to it. 
Had that happen to my truck one time.  Felt a little funny and I stopped at the farm bureau thinking it was a low tire.  Only 1 lug nut holding the wheel on !!!!!! Where or how they disappeared I will never know.  On the side I don't "see" normally at the house to get in and out.  Had to discard the rim as the holes were wallowed out.  Luckily I had the spare with me, they changed it.  I don't normally change my own tires so it was put on with an impact so don't have any idea why.....
The more equipment you own, the more things that go wrong....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Holy cow, Mr. @Bruce!  I wonder why the bolts came loose.  I seem to remember your using Locktite on the bolts the last time you had the wheel bolts come loose.  I wonder why it didn't hold.  This happening to you makes me want to check the bolts on my tractor!  Any idea when you might get it fixed?


----------



## thistlebloom

I was in town sitting at a stoplight one day, at the front of the line in the left turn lane.
The road perpendicular to me had light traffic. All of a sudden, from the left, here comes this huge wheel rolling fast through the intersection!
 Right behind it came the logging truck it must have belonged to. The next instant I heard a loud boom. I think it must have jumped the curb and hit a vehicle in the parking lot. 
I felt like I had been protected from harm by one of Gods angels. 
The light turned and traffic flowed. I checked the news but there was nothing about it, so thankfully nobody must have got injured.

My brother lost a wheel off his truck twice, different times, same truck.
He thinks maybe he over tightened the lugs. Fortunately he can fix anything, and has all the tools to deal with it.


----------



## Ridgetop

Sometimes I think going back to horse and buggy days might be a good thing.  On the other hand, you would have to work a lot harder to get stuff done with a mule and harness.  I guess checking the bolts is not so bad.

Glad you were not hurt!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I've never had a tractor, so am fairly ignorant about such....is there a reason that lock washers aren't used?...just thinking it would keep them from backing out....or are they snapping off?....


----------



## Bruce

They are backing out. They aren't even tapered, just "regular" hex head bolts that go through a flat washer and the wheel (with holes that allow some slop) then screw into a plate on the axle. Not even any nuts on the back. I don't know why they backed out ... again ... but you can be sure that torque wrench will be used to check every couple of weeks when I'm using the tractor in the future.



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Any idea when you might get it fixed?


Don't know but not holding my breath. I have to call the dealer in the morning when they open. The last time they had to order the bolts, had never heard of it happening, no reason to stock wheel bolts. This time I need 6 bolts, a new wheel and I'm pretty sure the plate the bolts thread into that is bolted to the axle. No way I can do any of that myself. Oh yeah, and refill the fluid in the wheel. Oh my aching wallet! 

Definitely a hit to the planned tasks. I'm getting a delivery tomorrow morning. Since I have a tractor with forks I got cheaper shipping, no need for a lift gate. I was thinking I would have to break it down on the truck and lift the pieces down. But I figure with one real bolt torqued to 94 ft lbs and 2 bolts just a tiny bit smaller than the real bolts through bolted I should be able to drive it the 100' round trip to the truck and onto the dealer's trailer whenever they can come. I was able to put in the through bolts in alternating holes so the wheel is held on with 3 bolts in a triangle pattern. It was drivable with one loose bolt and one VERY loose bolt ... that fell out so I think I'm good for VERY light and only necessary duty. 

Contents of the shipment? 

Two 36" pallet forks so I can get my wood racks all the way back to the frame with nothing sticking out the front. I've had to put a 2x6 on the flat between the rack and frame which puts the weight that much farther forward.
A canopy for the tractor so I can mow the field in some quantity of shade. 
The plan was to level out that stone area, split the wood (getting REALLY REALLY late for that!) fill the racks and place them on the stone. Then mow the field. I will not be surprised if all that is now put off 2 weeks


----------



## CntryBoy777

Too bad ya can't get a rim from a junkyard....but ya may can get a used one from the dealer....maybe.....  .....a telescoptic magnet can help ya find the bolts in the grass....I have had success many times with one....


----------



## Bruce

Doesn't matter if I find the bolts or not, the threads are totally flattened from working against the metal of the wheel as they back out.


----------



## drstratton

When it rains it pours...really bizarre to have those bolts work loose like that! Hope it all comes together and you can get back on track faster than you think!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

After reading about your trouble with your tractor, I checked the wheel bolts and nuts on mine.  All were tight except for the wheel on which I had the flat.  They needed tightening!  I will try periodically to check my wheels as well.


----------



## Bruce

You actually have bolts long enough to have nuts on the back? That sounds like a GOOD design. I found another bolt by the tractor when I took it of the jack stand. That means I kinda sorta had 3 bolts in the wheel while working Saturday.

Called the dealer, they are going to send someone tomorrow to pick it up. I feel sorry for the guy, we are expecting a fair amount of rain tomorrow from Isaias. 

At least a week to get parts, I don't expect to see it back for 2 weeks. And if it is like the last time they had to come get it due to the hydraulic line in the backhoe boom breaking, it will disappear when I'm not looking and come back the same way. They just dropped it off and left, I didn't know it was there until I went outside some unknown amount of time later.


----------



## Bruce

Canopy and shorter pallet forks received. I checked the wheel bolts after I got the parts to the barn and the tractor
positioned for pickup. The one remaining bolt had loosened some as had one of the others. But that one was too long and didn't have a lock nut. I re-tightened the regular bolt and replaced the long bolt with a shorter one with a lock nut. I couldn't do that yesterday with the wheel a bit askew as I couldn't get the shorter bolt through the hole. Should be good for driving up onto then off a trailer tomorrow. I took off the 3pt hardware and quick hitch, figured they didn't need any extra stuff hanging off back of the tractor.


----------



## Ridgetop

Since they don't stock the bolts, you might want to order 2 sets of bolts, just in case.


----------



## Bruce

And pay careful attention if any start backing out. I have no idea if they start one at a time or all at once. I wish they were long enough to attach lock nuts on the back. When properly tightened there isn't even 1/4" sticking out the back


----------



## Bruce

@Senile_Texas_Aggie PM me please, I can't start a conversation with you.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Did you get anything from the storm Bruce ?


----------



## Baymule

I have had my tractor going on 6 years this fall. I have never checked the bolts on the wheels. I guess maybe I should sorta, kinda, half way check them. LOL LOL I never get to drive it any more. I abdicated my tractor seat to my husband. He is unable to do the on the ground grunt work, so I do it. I miss my tractor, but he is more important.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> @Senile_Texas_Aggie PM me please, I can't start a conversation with you.



Done.  BTW, to everyone on the forum, I disabled my receiving of messages not because of anything anyone sent to me, but because my Beautiful Gal asked that I disable it because of something that happened long before I joined BYH.



Baymule said:


> I never get to drive it any more. I abdicated my tractor seat to my husband. He is unable to do the on the ground grunt work, so I do it. I miss my tractor, but he is more important.



I think you should be able to drive the tractor every once in a while.  Maybe BJ can just stand by and watch you work for a bit.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Baymule

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> I think you should be able to drive the tractor every once in a while.  Maybe BJ can just stand by and watch you work for a bit.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie



There are things that he can't do anymore. For instance, he can't bend over without getting dizzy-and I don't need him falling down! So he can't help weed the garden or even pick stuff since much of it is low to the ground. So I do my best to find things that he can do, so that he feels like he is helping. If I need something done that requires using my dear Marigold, I tell him and he jumps into the seat, happy to be useful. He is 10 years older than me and tires easily, so I plan things out that gives him recovery time. Working on the farm keeps him in good physical shape, I just structure it to what he is able to do. He does a lot of work, just no bending over!


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## B&B Happy goats

Baymule said:


> There are things that he can't do anymore. For instance, he can't bend over without getting dizzy-and I don't need him falling down! So he can't help weed the garden or even pick stuff since much of it is low to the ground. So I do my best to find things that he can do, so that he feels like he is helping. If I need something done that requires using my dear Marigold, I tell him and he jumps into the seat, happy to be useful. He is 10 years older than me and tires easily, so I plan things out that gives him recovery time. Working on the farm keeps him in good physical shape, I just structure it to what he is able to do. He does a lot of work, just no bending over!


Sounds like BJ and Leon  are on the same page lol, except my DH is only 61.....


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> So he can't help weed the garden or even pick stuff since much of it is low to the ground.


Time to start growing stuff in stock tanks? I know someone on another forum with pretty bad arthritis that made raised beds out of old stock tanks. Doesn't matter if they leak a bit aren't useful for their original purpose.



B&B Happy goats said:


> Did you get anything from the storm Bruce ?


We got rain all day, probably only about 2". Wind picked up around 8 but nothing more that we've had from non tropical storms. There was supposed to be wind around 50 MPH at midnight but either it didn't happen or it happened at another time. I was up at midnight visiting the bathroom. There were some long dead branches under the ancient maple. Not real big but one was at least 12' long. I should probably call a tree service to come cut out the dead parts before they drop on someone. The original main trunk is dead about 25' up but there are plenty of good branches coming out below that part.



Baymule said:


> I have never checked the bolts on the wheels. I guess maybe I should sorta, kinda, half way check them.


Couldn't hurt! Though I suppose if they've managed to stay on for 6 years they are likely good.


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Time to start growing stuff in stock tanks? I know someone on another forum with pretty bad arthritis that made raised beds out of old stock tanks. Doesn't matter if they leak a bit aren't useful for their original purpose.


No stock tanks. The heat would cook whatever was planted in them. If I was going for raised beds, they would be cinder blocks with caps. I don't want raised beds.


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## thistlebloom

Baymule said:


> No stock tanks. The heat would cook whatever was planted in them. If I was going for raised beds, they would be cinder blocks with caps. I don't want raised beds.



Stock tanks may actually be possible Bay. Sweet Miss Daisy over on TEG gardened in them when she lived in TX.


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## Bruce

The tractor dealer service guy called yesterday. They have ordered the parts - bolts, rim and the plate the bolts go into because the threads are messed up. But since this isn't common and has happened to me twice on the same wheel, no problem with the others, he is taking pictures of that part to send to Mahindra to see if it is something they know about and regardless of that, would they cover it under warranty. That would be very nice  I have to admit to not checking the torque as often as I should so the damage COULD be due to my negligence. Since it is only that one wheel maybe there was something wrong with that part from the start.

He said they had another customer some time back that kept having problems with a front wheel, after several fixes Mahindra covered it. 

I also asked if it was common to have nothing but bolts and flat washers holding tractor tires on and he said yes. Though back when they were selling Massey Ferguson there were SOME models that also had lock washers rather than just flat. He had no idea why it was only on some models.


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## thistlebloom

That will sure be nice if they fix it under warranty!
Seems strange that it's the same wheel each time, like it's not due to operator negligence.


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## farmerjan

It does sound like it is something that is not right from the factory.  So, even if they will go halves with you that is better than nothing, but the fact that it is the same wheel, and that you are having the dealer do it, that adds more credence to anything they can claim under warranty. So, here's hoping it will be covered. and that it won't take too terribly long to get the parts and fixed and back to you.


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## Bruce

I hope it is covered and returned quickly as well. Kind of a bummer to get my canopy but not be able to install and use it right away. All in good time I guess. I didn't even unpack it, hopefully there are no missing or damaged parts.


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## Baymule

It can't be all your fault. Keep after the warranty, it sounds like it should be covered. Hope you get your tractor back soon!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

I hope the wheel and hub repair is covered under warranty.  I hope even more so that they can get it back to you soon so that you can get done all the things you were planning.  I seem to recall that you had a load of gravel delivered that you wanted to spread, and you had some firewood that you wanted to move and process.  I know how it feels to be without a tractor when you've got work that needs doing.


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## thistlebloom

I can commiserate with you Bruce. Sort of...
 I was cleaning pens last evening and my two wheeled wheelbarrow felt floppy. I flipped it over and 3 of the bolts holding the wheels on were near to backing off., and the clip thingy that holds the wheel in place on the axle was missing. It could have been an ugly accident if I'd lost a wheel with a full load of manure!  🤣


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## Bruce

Glad you caught that in time. I guess it isn't only tractor wheels we should check over occasionally.


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## Bruce

Al happened by on his way back from delivering hay (to see when I wanted the cord of wood) just as we finished the 5K "Egg Run". He's had tractors forever. Never had a wheel bolt come loose, never checks them. No lock washers or lock nuts on the Massey he was using.

I don't know WHY it is called an Egg Run, no eggs (and in our case no running) involved. It is a fund raiser for the town's dept of Parks and Rec, funds this year going to the Community Center refurb. The halfway point was a tree across the road from our house. My sister-in-law has been visiting for 3 weeks now. She goes out every morning for a 6 - 10 mile walk/run. She saw the sign on the tree last week and decided we should do it. She actually did it last week but DW works 6 days a week. She's on vacation for 2 weeks starting today so SIL goaded us into "participating", even managed to get DD2 out for it. Now to submit the pictures of the midpoint and start posters with my watch in them to prove we did it. We did the "average adult walking pace" of 3 MPH. I assume they won't mind that we started and finished at the midpoint. Then we can get our T-shirts.


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## thistlebloom

Good thing you're providing verification.


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## Bruce

Dr. Temple Grandin was on Stoney Ridge Farm's YouTube channel today. She sees things in pictures, she sees things the way animals see them. 
SRF video it is 46 minutes long so plan some time. *Well worth watching*. 

At the beginning there is a question about autism and Aspergers. She said people with Aspergers aren't educationally delayed (or something like that) and people with autism are.


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## farmerjan

Temple Grandin is an extraordinary person.  She did a presentation at one of our statewide seminars and then again spoke at our Angus assn. summer field day a few years ago.  I greatly admire her and her knowledge and her abilities and how she is able to convey exactly what she is saying.


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## Bruce

Split some wood with my Sister-in-law this morning (after she got back from her 6 mile walk/run completing a 1,000 mile virtual race). I have a question:
Has anyone else ever found a live snake in a piece of wood they split? Definitely a first for me. It was young, a little less than the diameter of my little finger and about 18" long. It was snaked up inside the piece. And .... no snakes were harmed when the wood was split. I let it go off into the grass.


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## thistlebloom

thistlebloom said:


> Good thing you're providing verification.



Oh, now I get it. Your verification was for the race officials, not us.  🤔

I still think you should show us though. No pictures = didn't happen. 😄


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## Bruce

Have to do this from my phone, hope you appreciate the effort. Still can't figure out how to get pictures from phone to laptop


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## thistlebloom

Thanks Bruce. It's not that I didn't believe you....

I email my phone pictures to myself then download to my computer. Yes, it's a pain.


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## Bruce

I SHOULD be able to just connect the phone to the computer but whatever app I need on the Mac doesn't talk to the Android phone even though that is its only purpose.


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## Bruce

DW, her sister and I sheared Laddie Thursday. He started off by spitting at DW and her sister. Fortunately I was behind him  Overall he wasn't near as bad as prior years until I tried to take the ropes off his feet. He bent the double snap hook near the end and the piston and spring part shot who knows where. I think the noise of the electric shears really sets him off. I didn't even take them out of the box since they don't work long on their dirty fiber and haven't been sharpened since last year anyway. We'll do Teddy tomorrow. 

The vet is coming Monday late morning to do Laddie's teeth, should have been done a couple of years ago I suspect. Not sure how they intend to hold him but I'll leave the shearing stand in their area in case that might be helpful. I have a 350 pound carabiner, hopefully he can't bend that! I put up the electric net fence (not electrified) near the north west corner of the barn so I can close them off in a small area Mon morning before the vet comes. I suspect I would not be popular if we had to chase them all over the 1 acre of fenced area trying to catch Laddie. And I suspect his teeth wouldn't get done since we likely couldn't catch him.

Sister in law and I split all the wood, she's a LOT more helpful than DD2 and doesn't complain about working.


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## B&B Happy goats

It nice that you have someone  helping you Bruce, perhaps you can invite her to stay longer ???


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Any word yet on when your tractor will be ready?


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## farmerjan

Maybe sister in law ought to live with you and DD2 go live where she doesn't have to work for her board???? Or pay you board so she doesn't have to help????


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## Bruce

B&B Happy goats said:


> It nice that you have someone  helping you Bruce, perhaps you can invite her to stay longer ???


She's been here a month, leaving tomorrow. She lives in VA and is a teacher. She had to be here 2 weeks and have a negative Covid test before she could go visit her parents 45 minutes south. Only M-W-F. 



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Any word yet on when your tractor will be ready?


Haven't heard a thing. For all I know it will show up in the yard with no notice like the last time when it had hydraulic lines in the backhoe fixed!



farmerjan said:


> Maybe sister in law ought to live with you and DD2 go live where she doesn't have to work for her board???? Or pay you board so she doesn't have to help????


See above  Having her here for a month wasn't a bother at all. DD1 and her BF got old after about a day. DD1 is heading back to Canada on Friday, she came back 1.5 weeks ago from 2 weeks in VA dropping BF off at home. Had her Covid test on Thursday and hasn't heard anything which supposedly means she's clean. They tell you within 48 hours if the test is positive. She SHOULD get a phone call and will get a letter from the state health dept in a couple of days (if Sister in law's experience holds).

We've talked about having DD2 pay rent but haven't ever gotten to it. Of course now she is unemployed (though making more sitting home until the Fed $600/week stopped). She says she wants to move out but doesn't seem real motivated to find a job that would pay enough to afford an apt somewhere. So do we charge her now which makes it harder to save up money to move out or don't charge her so she has a better chance to move out??? Catch-22.


SIL and I sheared Teddy yesterday. He was good as usual. Still took over an hour and a half, I'll be sending the hand shears in to get sharpened. Those boys are sure dirty!!!!! I mowed the fenced area yesterday after shearing, got the Queen Anne's Lace cut down before it could reseed. Pretty but invasive and neither the boys or the hens eat it.

Had a vet out to cut down Laddie's front teeth today. Apparently being long isn't as horrible a thing as I believed but he took care of it. Guess that isn't something I'll need to have done again since their lifespan is usually around 15 years and he's at least 9 (if what the prior owners told us is true). The vet said they aren't like horses, can't tell age by looking at their teeth.

They don't look great but they are done. Not sure what is going on with Teddy's hair on the upper part of his legs unless spending time in the pond does that. No need to cut it at all and an odd brownish color. Head and tail still black, the rest getting pretty darn gray. Sorry no "before" pictures.


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## thistlebloom

Charge rent. It's good practice for being a grownup. You can put the money aside, without her knowledge and use it to help her with the first, last, and security deposit on a place of her own. 
Our boys paid rent, enough to cover utilities and a little groceries. They also helped out with the yard, and did their own laundry. They cleaned up after themselves too, which was a no brainer and what had been expected of them since they were little.
Paying your parents rent to live in their house is a very good motivator to get out and pay rent to a stranger. 😄


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## Bruce

Good idea Thistle! I'll have to chat with DW about it. And figure out how much to charge. I know my sister in So. Cal. charges her kids $300/month ... if they are working. Nothing when at school or not working. Her daughter has had some nasty medical issues for years.

BTW, I've got some pretty purple flowers on the bean plants


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## thistlebloom

My Carminat are spindly things this year, but the Fortex and the bush beans are looking good.


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## farmerjan

When I graduated high school,  got the summer off... no rent.  Come Sept if I went to college no rent of course, but I didn't go to college.  Got married in Oct but paid rent in Sept.  Brothers paid rent after their summer" free" until they moved out.  We all had to follow the same rules too as when in school... of course had a younger sister there who needed the routine and all... but all those restrictions were a good motivator to move.  This was back in the 70's... paid like 100 month and still had to do things around the house.  And you didn't b#@ch or moan about helping either.  
@thistlebloom 's idea to put the rent money aside to help out when she moves out is a nice gesture.... better than what alot would do, mine included....


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## Bruce

Still nothing on the tractor.
I think I should have kept checking the zucchini plant after not seeing anything for weeks and weeks.


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## farmerjan

They will hide just to see how big they can get!!!!!!!!


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## Bruce

They are very good at it! I brought in 3 really big Suyo Long cucumbers today. The difference between a big Suyo and a big zucchini is that the cucumber is still good all the way through, the seeds don't get big like "regular" cucumbers.


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## rachels.haven

That sounds great! Do they get bitter?


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## Bruce

Nope! A 12" Suyo is a great cucumber.


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## Baymule

You could play zucchini baseball with those! Use them as the bats and a tomato for the ball. LOL


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## Bruce

I better do that inside the chickens' area so they can pick up the tomato splats


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## Bruce

OK, got the tractor back. Though they didn't consider it a warranty repair Mahindra kicked in $550 plus they didn't charge the dealer for shipping the parts. And the dealer sold me the parts at no markup. $780 out of my pocket. Money but a LOT better than it could have been. 

Mahindra suggested to the dealer that they get paint pens and mark the bolts on all tires when they prep a machine. So they've ordered paint pens but did put some (I guess less durable) paint marks on the bolts and rims so I can visually see if any move. You can bet I'll be looking at those every time I run the tractor from now on.

The service/parts guy said "tattletales" are even better than paint but they are expensive. He described what they looked like and said truckers use them. The bolt goes through them so they can't be put on when the tire is mounted.  I happened to notice a semi today that had them. Teardrop shaped things that all pointed to the next bolt clockwise. If any move it would be really obvious that the point of the teardrop wasn't pointing where it should. 

In other news, though I'm sure most won't really care since I think I'm about the only one with interest in decreasing my "carbon footprint", we bought DW a Leaf 2 weeks ago. All electric so no more twice a week and bad weather stops at the gas station, no more mid winter oil changes  Her commute is 70 miles 6 days a week, the car's range is 215 miles. 

She kept her 2006 Prius with nearly 250K miles "so we would have a spare" (good if DD2 racks up her car AGAIN I guess) and she'll be driving that once a week just to keep it in running shape. All in all, I think a used truck would be a more useful "use when needed, ie rarely" vehicle. Of course the Prius isn't worth much, I'd surely want something a bit newer and with not nearly so many miles and that would cost more money.

At our electric rate of $0.18/kWh, the Leaf costs $.044/mile to run NOW, it will be more when the temps drop. That cost is about equivalent to her 2006 Prius when gas is $2.20/gallon. Now we need more solar panels 

She did say that fudge buying might take a hit since the store that sells the fudge doesn't have "pay at the pump" so she has to go in. Once inside the fudge drags her over to its counter    I bet she still stops in sometimes.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Yay for getting the tractor back!  I am glad that Mahindra and the dealer gave a bit of a price break!  I have never heard of the indicators that truckers use to see if the lug nuts have loosened.  I may need to check into those.  Will you be able to resume processing your firewood now and get caught up?

As for your wanting to reduce your carbon footprint, I think that is a laudable goal.  I should consider doing that, and more than consider, perhaps put something into action.  I had been considering putting in solar panels, but then when I ruined my previous tractor and ended up spending > $40K on a new one plus another $2500 for a new mower, then that has given me pause on spending any more money.


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## Bruce

I hear you on the money thing. If I had known I'd be spending nearly $800 on a tractor repair I probably wouldn't have purchased the canopy for it. Sure jacks up the $$ "invested" in it this year. But I'm sure I'll appreciate it for some years.

Regarding solar, it would be of value to look at your finances, current electric costs, net metering with your power company and your annual federal tax "burden". There is still a 26% federal tax credit for solar this year (drops to 22% next year). Unlike electric/plug in vehicles, the credit not used this year (ie you don't owe that much tax) the solar credit can be extended into the following years. I don't know if your state has any solar incentives but look for that as well.

My electric bill has been $0 for nearly 5 years but they made a change a couple of years ago that I am grandfathered against. That change was that you can't use solar credits to pay other than the per kilowatt charges. Those costs on my last bill would have been almost $16. Thus it is IMPOSSIBLE for more recent installations to have a $0 monthly bill unless you are not connected to the grid at all.


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## rachels.haven

Hmm, I'm pretty sure my husband wants to be you in 10 years or so in regards to carbon footprint. That is a laudable achievement.

DH wonders if your state compensates you for what you put back into the grid. Mind if I ask you on his behalf?


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## Bruce

Net metering is different in every state. I don't know if it is also by utility. 

Green Mountain Power credits at the retail rate. Utilities in some states credit at a lower rate. That is wrong IMO since there is no cash value for the power. One shouldn't have to sell their excess power in the summer for a wholesale value then buy it back at retail in the winter. In months that we generate more than we use we get a credit for the difference but that credit expires the following year on that month so you can't save up for future power users (like a Leaf for example). Use it or lose it. I have "lost" several hundred dollars in the past.

A few years ago Nevada effectively killed residential solar by charging solar net connected accounts twice the daily "fee to be a customer" of non solar customers and paying wholesale for the power sent to the grid but retail for the power used from the grid. All the big solar companies pulled out. And what better place than sunny NV for solar panels?


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## rachels.haven

Yeah, DH has mixed feelings on the credits since most power generation occurs at non-peak hours and is hard to store and a lot of the expense of a power co is maintaining the grid. Too bad about NV though. That's kind of sick. They don't have to buy power from them but they shouldn't _discourage_ people from using solar, imo. I guess the power of the lobby is great.


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## Baymule

Politics as usual. Screw the little guy, cut deals with the big companies. 

Our DD is on her second Chevy Volt and loves it. I would consider an electric car, but for now, mine still runs, so we will keep it. LOL


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## Bruce

I just did a little looking:
"or your net metering system is older than 10 years or has been amended (increased by more than 5% or decreased by more than 60%), net metering credits cannot be used to pay “non bypassable charges” on your bill."
So my "grandfathered" bit is only good for 5 more years and if I add any panels I'll lose it immediately.

GMP has a "Resilient Home" program which makes little sense to me. For $30/month or $3,000 up front they will put 2 Tesla Powerwalls in your house - actually I think the homeowner has to pay a ton of money for an electrician to install them. Once installed you can use the power to run your home during an outage and they will pull power from them during peak usage. They own the batteries and the program runs 10 years. After that time you can keep the batteries until they cease to be reasonably functional (about 5 years according to the Q&A). Seems like a lot of money/month unless the power goes out frequently so the homeowner can pay to provide "housing" for GMP's batteries.

They also have a Bring Your Own Device program where they will pay money upfront per kW enrolled for either 3 or 4 hour discharge. It basically caps at $9,500 and based on the amount they will pay I think 10 kWh per day. So the money up front sounds good but they get to use your charge/discharge cycles which aren't infinite. If my guesstimates are correct that means if you have 14 kWh of battery storage (2 Tesla Powerwalls) and let them take 3 kW every hour for 4 hours, you have NO power you can use during the period since the batteries should never be fully discharged. And if they are using all your battery storage to feed the grid during peak periods are they just turning at some of it around and putting it back into your service panel to provide the power you need?


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## Bruce

Well the fun never ends here 

 I noticed yesterday that the click on the fence charger was weak, no flashing light. Web check says replace a fuse in it. The fuse looked good today so I'm thinking there is a problem with the charger. Later this afternoon I wanted to use the planer in the barn workshop. No power. Lights in the workshop working though. None of the outlets in the workshop have power. No lights in the drive bay. No power in the outlets down in the barn alley but the lights down there work. 

Broke out the multimeter and took the cover off the panel. 9 breakers in there, 5 reading maybe 5-10V. The 40A for the level 2 EV charger read OK ... I thought. DW's Leaf needs to get charged and thinking about @rachels.haven comments about peak power usage decided to set the timer to start at midnight. I took the car down to the barn, figured out how to set the timer .... no lights on the charging station. This is not good.  Thinking I had properly tested the breaker I tested the outlet for the charger, one side read 120V, the other 5-10V. So I went back to the panel. One half of the breaker reads 120V the other reads 5-10V. So I guess I had only tested the top half of the breaker and ASSUMED that since it was good the entire breaker was good. Guess not. 

So I moved my car and took the Leaf up to the house where I charge on 110V, got the Leaf's charge cable out and hung and the car is charging s-l-o-w-l-y. It will probably take at least 3 times as long on 110V. I know that is the ratio for my car. Glad I decided to charge overnight tonight because if I figured this out tomorrow night there is no way the car would have time to fully charge. It would still have been OK since it has 55 miles of range, even at 110V it would have added plenty for DW's 75 mile round trip commute Monday. And of course she does still have her Prius. 

Hopefully Ace has the GE breakers in stock tomorrow or I'll have to wait until the electric supply company opens on Monday morning. I might just get 9 new breakers given only 3 are currently working now. Those can be spares for the future.

I have no idea what the heck happened. We did have a big T storm a couple of nights ago and one strike was FLASH-BOOM, not even 1 second between them so it was close. My guess is some of the breakers, being old, fried. BUT the 40A was new 14 months ago AND I used the EV charger yesterday so I know it was working then. I don't recall when I last used any power other than lights in the workshop, certainly several days ago at the most recent. Likely before the T-storm but I wouldn't swear to that in court.


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## farmerjan

WOW, good thing you found it now.  I am tea totally scared of electricity.  Don't understand it much and have gotten hit enough times on electric fence to make me wary of any and all electric anythings.....Oh well,,,,,, guess I can't like everything or be even somewhat proficient at it either.  Electricity is for the experts..... of which I AM NOT.


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## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> WOW, good thing you found it now.  I am tea totally scared of electricity.  Don't understand it much and have gotten hit enough times on electric fence to make me wary of any and all electric anythings.....Oh well,,,,,, guess I can't like everything or be even somewhat proficient at it either.  Electricity is for the experts..... of which I AM NOT.


X 2! Me too! We can't all be experts on everything. 

Bruce I guess the only way to come out ahead is to not be connected to the grid on some circuits and use those circuits for certain things.


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## Bruce

That was my thought Bay. Add batteries and more panels but don't connect those to the grid, at least not for the next 5 years when I lose the grandfathered "non bypassable charges". Move most of the house onto the panel connected to the batteries exclusive of hogs like the electric range, floor heat in the one bathroom, the pool pump. We can do without those, the pool pump is only May-Sept anyway, and I have the propane 1931 stove if I don't have power for the electric oven. It is the cooktop regardless of the status of electric supply anyway.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Dang, Mr. Bruce!  That is a bummer on your flaky power.  I hope that Ace hardware has the breakers you need and those fix the problem.

Clever idea on having some of your solar panels and batteries not connected to the power grid.  How will you separate the different appliances so that they are off grid?


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## Bruce

You need a separate panel. What I don't know, and why one does need a real electrician, is if it is possible to have a switch between the batteries and the grid for that panel such that one could choose grid or battery but the batteries wouldn't be chargeable from the grid. From my reading that is actually a requirement to get a federal tax credit for adding batteries - that they can't be charged from the grid and there must be a new solar installation feeding them. The tax rules around solar seem meant for lawyers not for functionality or decreasing fossil fuel use. I think one could "switch" between grid and batteries the same way you can switch from grid to a generator that is hardwired into the panel.

When the house was worked on before the electrician ran a wire from a new 70A breaker in the main panel to the existing panel in the barn. I guess before that it was run straight from the meter even though it wasn't a separately metered panel. The panel in the barn has a 50A main shut off breaker. I don't know if it is better to have a bigger breaker feeding a smaller one or he just left the preexisting 50A in there and it COULD be a 70A. I also don't know why it is better to have a breaker in the main panel than run directly from the meter.  Beyond my knowledge level!


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## Bruce

I called Ace, asked if they had the GE breakers in the store. The guy says I'll go check, comes back and says Yes. "GE breakers?" I asked. Yes. 

Before I headed off to the store I did a little more testing and investigating. What I found, and maybe would have noticed if I knew what all was attached to each breaker and could test those, was that the left leg is dead. The way the panel works is that as you go down one side each "next" breaker is on the alternate leg. That is how a single 240V breaker works, it gets 120V from each leg because it takes up 2 vertical slots. I was able to move the breaker for the workshop outlets (yes ALL on the same 15A circuit and run with 14 gauge wire . (*) ) and et voila, the tester worked in them. I moved another breaker and got lucky, it was the one the fence charger is on. Click-blink, click-blink  Can't move any more, there isn't enough wire length.

So I tested the 50A Main breaker. Power in to both halves, no power coming out of the lower half, the left leg of the panel. I shut off the 70A breaker in the house, disconnected the wires from the 50A pulled it out and took it to ACE where they do NOT have any GE breakers at all :mad 

I put the 50A back in, turned on the 70A and will go to the electrical supply house in the morning. 

* I already knew the guy we bought this place from was an electrical moron. I discovered early on that even a monkey would have gotten lucky and not wired up over half the outlets with the hot wire on the neutral screw and the white wire on the hot screw. It REALLY isn't that hard!! The hot (black or red) wire goes on the brass screw (often labeled Black) and the white wire goes on the silver screw (often labeled White). And NONE of the outlets in the workshop were grounded, he'd cut the ground wire in the first outlet box (just above the service panel) rather than connecting it to the wire coming into the box thus no ground on any receptacles further on.


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## Hens and Roos

Never fun repairing someone's work


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Yikes on the wiring!  Have you fixed all of the bad wiring in the house?  I hope so.  I hope you can get the correct breaker for the barn from the electrical supply place today.


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## Bruce

He didn't touch the house but I did replace all the rubber and cloth covered 2 wire and ungrounded outlets with new 12-2 and grounded outlets. That is in the original building. The rebuilt one is all new wiring done by electricians - who didn't understand that I wanted a box on the wall at the top of the stairs for a wall sconce (which I had purchased). They put a box there so I figured all was good ... until they put in the hardwired smoke detector


----------



## Bruce

The electric supply place didn't have a 70A breaker but they had a 60A so I'm up 10A on "capacity". I shouldn't really ever need it all at once, no plan to run both the EV stations (electric co is giving me another for the Leaf) at the same time but those go on 40A breakers and the EV station will pull 35A. 

And why you don't want to have to charge at 110V if you have a somewhat long commute: The Leaf had about 22% charge when I plugged it in around 8 PM Sat, DW left just before 7 AM Monday and said the battery was 97%. Rough calculation says the charge rate on 110V is about 1 kWh/hour. That is about the same as my Prius but most of the time I don't need to rush is since I mostly only go out 1-3 times a week and I try to charge it during the day when the sun is out and I'm effectively charging from the solar panels. The Prius battery only has about 6 kWh available for charging, the Leaf 10X that. I suspect the chargers in the car could pull more amps and charge faster on 110V but the car companies err on the side of extreme caution. They don't know if someone is plugging into a 15A circuit on 14 gauge wire or the more common 20A on 12 gauge. Or the "not to code" 14 gauge on a 20A circuit, that could overheat the wire.

I mowed some of the field Sunday and most of the rest yesterday. Had to stop to make dinner, still have about 1/2 hour more. Time to get another 3 containers of off road diesel. It is only a bit more than 4 acres but with the height of all the weeds, the rocks and ledge here and there plus a few trees surrounded by rocks (presumably all pulled from the field over the years) it is pretty slow going. Probably not much more than 1/2 acre/hour. Hopefully the grass can grow now. 

There were 3 deer passing through this morning about 6:45. I think one was a loner, the other two were a doe and her fawn I THINK since they were near each other though not interacting at all. They were over by the apple tree at the edge of the woods.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Glad to see that you were able to get a circuit breaker that worked.  Do you have power in your barn now?  And glad to see that you are able to mow the pasture, albeit slowly.  I seem to recall that you had planned to bring in some firewood for processing when you discovered the loose lug bolts on your tractor.  Do you plan to start back on that project?  If so, I hope you will take pictures of your work.  I still think you could have a YouTube channel where you recorded all of your work, akin to GP Outdoors.  I would be a devoted fan!


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## Bruce

Power to the barn is restored. Maybe the T-storm weakened the one side of the breaker and it died a bit less than a week later? 

I still have to level out the stone then I can start filling racks with the wood my sister in law and I split last month.. I guess I better get on that, winter will be upon us soon.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Be sure to get pictures, or better, videos!


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## Bruce

For your excitement (or whatever)

The "pad" for the wood racks. Still needs some leveling, probably need to find a laser level since it is 14' x 20', not something I can screed over especially since there are no wood sides.


I'm planning on putting the racks on the right side and storage for the forks, bucket and maybe the landscape rake on the left. The flail will be on the tractor for rear ballast so it doesn't need a winter storage area. You can see the pile of wood to the left and behind the "pad".

And the siding "issue". That is the 110V charger for my Prime.
 

As you can see there is plenty of rot in the part just right of the outlet


I was able to lift the next board up enough to pop the nails out and pull them


The next piece down looked a bit suspect as well and I was deciding if I wanted to replace it or not. The decision was made for me when the side left of the outlet cracked as I was trying to get that side of the bad piece above it out.

So for tonight and tomorrow it looks like this, I'm letting it dry out. I made the replacement for the bad piece last week and primed it with oil primer. I made the replacement for the lower piece today and primed it. I'm going to have to put paintable caulk in the nail holes of the next piece up and put new nails near, but not too near, those holes. 


The carpenters that did our old house 29 years ago had ZERO nailheads showing other than the very top piece. I don't know why these were put up with a bazillion nail heads showing. Every one of them is a potential leak/rot point. Of course it was the crack in the wood that cause the damage here. Nail too close to the edge without pre-drilling and even thin pine will crack. Cedar is about guaranteed to do so. Cedar would have been less likely to rot though. Of course these were put in with pneumatic nailers so not even a chance to go gently near the edges.


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## Baymule

You are a man of many talents. You can fix just about anything. My fix-it abilities are limited, but I can muddle through. BJ's  fix-it consists hitting it with a hammer, then duct taping it back together. In comparison, he thinks I'm a genius. Shhh....... don't tell him any different!


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## Mike CHS

Baymule said:


> You are a man of many talents. You can fix just about anything. My fix-it abilities are limited, but I can muddle through. BJ's  fix-it consists hitting it with a hammer, then duct taping it back together. In comparison, he thinks I'm a genius. Shhh....... don't tell him any different!



I'm the builder but in most other things, I just ask Teresa to fix it.


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## Baymule

I love and adore my cordless power tools. Recently my son gave me a battery powered chain saw. I immediately cut down 2 dead pines, it did a good job. It is light enough for me to handle and will cut small trees with a 6" stump. I've been waiting for cool weather so I can go play with it. With the garden season winding down, I am ready for something besides canning all day!


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I'm the builder but in most other things, I just ask Teresa to fix it.


One builder, one fixer. Sounds good!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir,

Thank you for the pictures!  We (or at least *I*) can better understand what is happening around your place when you provide them.  So thank you again!

So will you be storing the wood on racks where the gravel is spread out?  If so, do you plan on building a covered shed there, or perhaps cover the wood with a tarp to keep the wood dry?  I am asking because I have seen different folks on YouTube do it different way, with some stacking the wood in a shed, while others (Sawing with Sandy in particular) storing the wood in IBC totes and covering the totes with tarps.  I hope however you do it you can get done before it turns really cold!  I also hope you will provide us with more pictures!

Senile Texas Aggie


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## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> The "pad" for the wood racks. Still needs some leveling, probably need to find a laser level since it is 14' x 20', not something I can screed over especially since there are no wood sides.



Since there will be no permanent structure on your pad dh says it's ok if you don't screed it.  😄


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## Bruce

Yes the racks will be stored on the gravel. In the past they were where stuff in the foreground is currently. That area slopes both toward the barn and the pad area so getting wood down so the individual racks were on a basically level surface was a PITA. And picking them up in that situation in the winter to move them to the porch landing wasn't so easy. The first time I had the "forks go in" side facing south so getting the forks in when the tractor was on a left leaning slope was no fun. The next year I faced them east so at least the tractor was sort of level but facing downhill. Again not that easy to get the forks level to go into the racks when the tractor end of the forks hit the ground first. 

Last year I moved all the racks up onto the front lawn past the porch landing. That worked OK since the ground is kinda sorta a little bit level but put them where I need to push snow and backing the tractor with the rack to get lined up with the porch put the back wheels closer to the flower garden than DW liked.

So this year I decided to get on the "move and look through that pile of wood" project and build the pad. Since I should be able to approach the racks with the front wheels of the tractor on the same level as the racks they should be easier to pick up. I will cover it with a tarp or old metal roofing. Probably the latter since the tarp holds snow and sags down on the wood. The resulting melted and refrozen snow makes it hard to get the tarp off. 

For reference the "pad" is where the horizontal stuff is at the top of the picture. The racks had been where the brown stuff is below that and the brown horizontal stuck (stacked wood) is. When I had them on the front lawn the were at the bottom right below that brown patch. The porch landing for the wood is left of the round lilac bush. The entrance to the porch we use is at the NE corner of the house.

 



thistlebloom said:


> Since there will be no permanent structure on your pad dh says it's ok if you don't screed it.  😄


Phew, I was wondering how I could afford a plane ticket for your DH to come screed it. Can I leave it unscreeded if I put up a structure around the pad? In the long run I would like a permanent roof over it but open on the sides so the air can get in to dry the wood.


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## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> Can I leave it unscreeded if I put up a structure around the pad? In the long run I would like a permanent roof over it but open on the sides so the air can get in to dry the wood.



I'll ask and see if that's allowed. 

........... Ok, dh says you have his blessing.  😄


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## Bruce

I'm glad he is flexible


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## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> I'm glad he is flexible



He didn't want to have to fly out there.


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## farmerjan

Bruce, what about one of those "carports" that are so popular?  Do they not stand up to snow loads up there?  You could get one to cover the wood... put one up on a pony wall a couple of feet if it was not high enough for you, but since you lift the racks of wood from the bottom they would not have to be too terribly high.  Maybe they are not allowed up there by building codes?  One thing to be thankful for down here.... much more relaxed acceptance except in developments with restricted covenants.  The one at the house has sides but no ends,  but they don't have to... on alot of them the sides come down like 2 ft or something and then are open all around.


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## Bruce

I got a small one to put over the backhoe (once the empty wood racks in front of it are put into use and moved since the tarp that has been on it 2 years is ripping where the height points are. We'll see how that handles the wind and snow. I suspect anything with open ends or sides would be blown halfway to Canada.

The racks are 6' tall and roughly 38"x 44". If I had to bother with building a pony wall to get a "carport" high enough I might as well build a "hard top" pole wood shed.



thistlebloom said:


> He didn't want to have to fly out there.


I don't blame him, too much "danger" and restriction to do the air travel, then 2 weeks of isolation. Once here , of course, we are the safest state in the country relative to Covid. Then there is New Brunswick, CA where DD1 is at school. There are only 4 active cases in the entire province.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. Bruce, sir!

Refresh my memory -- do you cut, split, stack, and burn all of your own wood, or do you buy your wood already cut and split?  I seem to recall that earlier this year you wanted to go into the wooded area on your property and cut one or more trees and then haul them to your house where you planned to cut it to length, split it, etc.  I seem to recall the reason that you didn't was that the ground going into your woods was too wet.  Later when it dried out, then you had your lug bolt issues, and so only now can go into the woods.  Am I remembering correctly?  If and when you do go into the woods to get some wood, I hope you record everything so that we can watch it on the new YouTube channel "Outdoors with Bruce" which you will start! 

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Ridgetop

Baymule said:


> No stock tanks. The heat would cook whatever was planted in them. If I was going for raised beds, they would be cinder blocks with caps. I don't want raised beds.



I wonder if that was what happened to some f our raised stock tank beds that didn't do so well!


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## Ridgetop

Bruce said:


> hat I don't know, and why one does need a real electrician, is if it is possible to have a switch between the batteries and the grid for that panel such that one could choose grid or battery but the batteries wouldn't be chargeable from the grid.



Yes you can have a switch installed.  I am not sure if it would prevent charging from the grid, but you can have another switch installed to cut off grid power to that.  I only know that much because DH had a switch installed in both our old camper and our 5th wheel to stop the solar panels from charging and burning out the batteries when the 2 vehicles were parked.



Bruce said:


> The rebuilt one is all new wiring done by electricians - who didn't understand that I wanted a box on the wall at the top of the stairs for a wall sconce (which I had purchased). They put a box there so I figured all was good ... until they put in the hardwired smoke detector



Our hardwired smoke detectors went bad.  We replaced them with the new sealed battery 10 year kind.  You could install the sconce in the box and just put a battery operated smoke detector next to it.  Of course, you probably already did that as soon as you moved in, right?  LOL

Electrical problems are no fun.  DH is the resident electrical genius.  I can change light bulbs.  DS1 has also learned from his dad, and can do a lot of household electrical stuff, and of course the other 2 are linemen and anything under 34,500 volts is a laughing matter according to them.  I finally figured out how too change out an electrical plug receptacle if I have the instructions in front of me.  I got a lot of flack for insisting that the house current be OFF!  DH and all my sons do it live.  They like to wait until I am in the other room then scream so I come running thinking they electrocuted themselves.  Then they all laugh heartily as I stagger to a chair and try to slow my heartbeat down.  Very funny guys!


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## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Refresh my memory -- do you cut, split, stack, and burn all of your own wood


Only some of it. I had about 2.5 cords last year but Al had gotten bored and cut some wood even though he said 2 years ago he wasn't going to sell wood anymore. Then this year he asked if I wanted a cord ... yep bored again! I think he's cutting maybe 4 cords now, he used to cut 10. I'm not sure how big that pile of wood I cut and sister-in-law and I split is, I'll find out when we fill the racks. I have enough racks for only 2 & 1/3 cords.

Here is the pad, as level as it is going to get. 14'x20', DD2 helped me. DW told her last night that she's going to get out of her room and do at least 1 hour of useful stuff 5 days a week. 



I let the chickens out of the back while we worked





Ridgetop said:


> You could install the sconce in the box and just put a battery operated smoke detector next to it.


I could, if I wanted the light on all the time  The ORIGINAL plan was to have the light on the intermediate landing and the one on the wall at the top of the stairs on one Two way switch circuit. The way they wired it the only way to get that would be to run a wire along the sloped ceiling from the landing light to the sconce light. There is no attic in that part of the house. 



Ridgetop said:


> Our hardwired smoke detectors went bad. We replaced them with the new sealed battery 10 year kind. You could install the sconce in the box and just put a battery operated smoke detector next to it. Of course, you probably already did that as soon as you moved in, right? LOL


Mine didn't go bad but they are a royal PITA since you STILL have to replace the batteries twice a year. It makes NO sense to me why one needs hardwired alarms if the batteries are there for backup. 2 of them were up on the 10' wall upstairs, no way to get to them without a ladder and when the batteries decided they wanted to be replaced it was always in the middle of the night (I believe there is a law that makes them do that!). And when they do go off all at the same time you have no idea which one detected (false in our case) the fire so no idea which way to run. 

Plus they put the hardwired alarms on the same circuit as ALL the kitchen lights and the short hall and the mudroom and the lights in the bathroom by the mirror. That means when you flip the breaker to shut off the deafening migraine inducing horns it is pitch black.

Yes I removed them, capped the wires together and put a 10 year lithium in their place. 



Ridgetop said:


> I got a lot of flack for insisting that the house current be OFF! DH and all my sons do it live.


Um, I kinda prefer to have the power off as well though if you are careful you can do it live.


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## Bruce

Apparently I had this set up to post yesterday and didn't get it done!!!! I added 2 more full racks today behind the ones shown below.
Some "before" pictures
  

Pile in the middle moved


Testing placing the racks


Two racks filled and placed


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## thistlebloom

Looks like a very successful project.
And that's a mighty fine looking pad too!


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## chickens really

I love your place..❤️
Your house is fantastic..👍☺️ Is that a veranda out front? I always wanted a house with a covered veranda..❤️🏡


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## Bruce

If a covered veranda in CA is the same as an enclosed porch in the USA then yes


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## Bruce

DD2 and I finished off the split wood, the sixth rack (near left) isn't totally full so something under 2 cords.


I set the other rack so I can take the splitter out tomorrow and deal with the "bits" that were too big even for 2 people to pick up. I couldn't deal with them when sister-in-law and I were splitting because the tractor was getting fixed. I'll put the splitter between the rack and the rounds then load the rounds with the tractor. Each split piece will go directly to the rack. I don't expect this will be dry enough to burn this winter since it isn't yet split but I do have a moisture meter so I can check. If they are dry enough I'll move them to the not full rack.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. Bruce, sir!

That is great that you are getting caught up on all of your wood chopping and splitting.  You almost certainly said already, but I can't remember what you said.  Do you plan on putting a wood roof over the wood, cover the wood with a tarp, or just leave it out in the open?  In the YouTube channels, I think Outdoors with the Morgans has a roofed wood shed, as does GP Outdoors, while Sawing with Sandy uses IBC totes and covers each tote with a tarp.

Thank you for providing all of the pictures of the work you are doing.  It helps me get a better idea of all of what you do.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Mike Morgan built a woodshed with purchased PT 4x4s and pine siding he cut and milled. There is no wood in the shed, it is filled with equipment!

I will probably make individual metal covers that can sit on top of the wood when it is stored and cover that with a tarp of some sort to keep the snow off and make it easier to get the rack uncovered. I made a slanted roof that I put on each rack when it is sitting on the porch landing. It keeps the rain and snow from pouring off the roof into the wood. Didn't want to make one for every rack. That roof is on the ground in front of the first rack on the right in the picture above.

I had some pieces that were still too long that I hadn't dealt with yet. I cut those down, none needed splitting. That filled the rest of the rack we did yesterday. Today DD and I split those big pieces, it takes some guessing and trial and error to split wood that is far too big for the splitter and oddly shaped to boot. That filled up about 1/4 of the last rack. That wood is definitely too wet to be used this winter.


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## Bruce

When we were done splitting the "too big" pieces I cut up some smaller branches that hadn't been dealt with earlier in the summer plus a few from the cord Al delivered that were a bit too long. Those filled up the rest of rack #6. Sorry it is fuzzy, I took the picture through the bedroom window



Much neater in front of the barn now. Next task (raining today) is to clean up around the backhoe (the thing under the ripping silver tarp, it lived only about 1 year) and attempt to erect the small carport I got at Harbor Freight. Hopefully it will hold up to the wind and snow of winter.


Since you probably don't recall, this is what it looked like before I finally got the pad built.


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## Baymule

I hope all that helps you get to the wood pile easier this winter. It sure is an improvement.


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## thistlebloom

I'll offer an observation about the carport. I don't know what your winter snow is like, or how the carport is constructed, but around here, I would be sure to pull the snow off a structure like that before it accumulated more than 6". You can get away with more if it's dry, and if it's wet and heavy than that would be the max I would be comfortable with. I lost a Shelter Logic shelter last year from a heavy wet snow, there were other factors involved, but it sure is a disappointment to have to deal with a collapsed roof in the winter.

Your new wood storage area looks good! Isn't it great to have improved organization?


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## Bruce

It should be lots easier to get to than it was 2 years ago. Last year I moved the racks up into the front yard and while close to where they needed to go to be used that location was also a bit problematic. I had to be super careful to not back into DW's flower bed when lining up to get to the porch and the racks were about where I needed to put snow. 

I hear you on the snow load. Given the carport will be only a few feet from the gate down to the barns, I'll see it at least twice a day to remind me to clear it off. A couple of years ago I hooped cattle panels over the blueberry bushes then covered that with chicken wire to keep the birds out. Never thought about snow not falling through those big holes and in the spring what originally looked like an upside down U looked like M. It still does since I never got around to taking it all apart to try and flatten the panels.


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## farmerjan

I like the pad you built for the wood racks and hope that it will make wood moving easier for you.  It will eliminate the soggy wet muddy ground right there for the wood and that is great. 
Amazing that chicken wire, which is mostly "holes" will actually pile up with snow.... Had one once in CT that actually was soo well covered that the chickens went out in it and it was bare ground in a couple days under it.  We had a long cold spell, so it didn't melt for a couple weeks. They ate the snow on the ground and then wore it down and used it like a "covered run"... Amazing....


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> When we were done splitting the "too big" pieces I cut up some smaller branches that hadn't been dealt with earlier in the summer plus a few from the cord Al delivered that were a bit too long. Those filled up the rest of rack #6.



Mr. Bruce, sir,

Mike Morgan would be proud!

When winter comes and you start burning wood, do you plan to move a rack with your tractor to the porch, so it will be easier to get wood when you need it?

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

I bet even Mike and his Wolf Ridge commercial splitter would have had to do a little planning with those oddly shaped pieces. I notice all his wood is nice and round 

Yes, for use each rack in turn is put on the porch landing. The empty is moved off the landing back to wherever the racks are stored (on the new pad now!) then the roof and back are moved from the empty one to the new one and the new one moved to the landing. While not beautiful at all, the vertical piece of roofing on the left side and the wood and plexiglass panel on the right keep most of the rain and snow out of the "in use" rack.


I had made the wood and plexiglass panel to go on the north side of the other entrance to the house before we had to rebuild most of it. The north and west winds would blow plenty of snow right onto the covered landing. This is during construction (destruction?), the landing isn't there but you can see the door and roof over it on the right. The panel was on the near side.



We originally planned to just have the existing porch roof extended over and replacing the small roof since a LOT of water got dumped off both the porch and house roofs into the space between the covered landing and the covered porch. But the existing roof didn't lend itself to that extension and we ended up enclosing even MORE porch in front of the house. It is nice to have an "airlock" between the outside world and the heated space. Plus we have even MORE space to store a lot of stuff we don't use.


----------



## Bruce

The "carport" project
Step 1 - remove the ripped tarp on the backhoe and attach the backhoe to the tractor (which of course was harder than one would want) so it could be moved
 

Dumped a bunch of "excavated pond bottom" on the slope to bring the barn side up some. Not level and not going to be!


Assembled the top frame


Assembled the legs, if you "bigify" the picture you can see that the barn side legs are on a 12' 2x6 so the structure is level side to side though not front to back. Got the rear anchors in without too much trouble. After literally HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS of effort got the front anchors in. What a PITA!!!!! Every little stone (after the softball size rock was removed) caused the anchor to stop digging in.


Got the front and rear panels on


DD2 helped put the top on. I attached a 1x2 to the bottom of the door to make it easy to roll up.


I can get the tractor (with canopy removed and ROPS down) all the way in so I can put the hoe all the way to the back and the rake in front of that. BUT I'm thinking for the winter I might move the garden tractor and splitter into the "tractor bay" and put the hoe and rake in the drive bay. The "tractor bay" isn't wide enough for the hoe. The hoe would be near the front of the drive bay because I don't trust the structural integrity of it to hold up the tractor. I could then put the tractor in the "carport". I use the flail mower as rear weight in the winter (and most of the year actually) and I THINK the tractor, flail and bucket will fit in the carport with the door closed.

Why would that be useful? Well because to get the tractor out of the "tractor bay" I have to slide both of the drive bay doors left a couple of feet and the "tractor bay" doors all the way left to get the tractor out. Not a huge deal in good weather but if we've had a significant snowfall, there is a lot of digging out needed before the doors will slide.

Mike, does that special paint come in "barn red" because other than for Halloween, the orange material is really not very attractive.


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## Mike CHS

I have only seen the paint in white and have no idea if it could be tinted. That's an interesting thought though.


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## thistlebloom

Bruce said:


> Not level and not going to be!


😄




Bruce said:


> After literally HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS of effort got the front anchors in.


We have extremely rocky soil soil we didn't even try the anchors. We pounded in three t-posts per side and tied the legs to them. Another thing I found useful was to run rope in a zigzag over the beam and eaves (?) between the purlins (hopefully that's the right terminology). The amount of space between the purlins is large enough that with any snow the roof will belly out and make it difficult to remove. Same with a hard rain. The rope support helps it shed a little better.


----------



## thistlebloom

Oh, and my dad had an arch type carport (tarp material) and he painted it with regular exterior house paint. Seemed to work just fine.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. Bruce, sir,

Thank you so much for the pictures!  I fear my Texas Aggie I/Q got in the way, but I think you decided to put the garden tractor and the wood splitter in the tractor bay, the backhoe and the rake (landscape rake?) in the drive bay, and the tractor in the carport (the structure you just assembled), with the flail mower attached to the 3-pt hitch and the bucket on the FEL.  Is that right?  I seem to recall that you use your garden tractor to remove snow from your driveway.  If so, will the new arrangement make it easy for you to get the garden tractor out of the barn so you can blow the snow off of the driveway?

I am glad you are finally able to get all of this work done before winter.  Speaking of winter, I had expected to see your tress already turning colors, but the only color that I noticed was in the very last picture was in the trees north of the barn.  Have your trees started turning already, or will it be a couple more weeks?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

The leaves are definitely turning, fall is here though we are having "Indian Summer" for a few days. 

I originally moved snow with the garden tractor and snow blower. But the winch that lifts the blower is broken, maybe I can find someone to weld it IF it is even repairable. 

The blower is a commercial product specifically designated for use on this garden tractor but the winch is a "this will fit" item selected by the manufacturer. It has 50' of cable and only needs to pull about 5". Even with that it got kinked and wrapped on itself and sometimes would not reverse because the cable couldn't move. The cable eventually wore through. I was out in the drive when that happened so I put 2 cable clamps on the wire so I could lift the blower and finish up. What I didn't realize was that every time I lifted the blower the cable clamps pulled against the 2 rods on the front of the winch and badly stripped and bent the screws that hold them in, one pulled out completely. There is no way for the drum to hold into the outside end plate on the winch "body" without those 2 rods.

With that out of commision I was using the bucket on the tractor to move snow, thus the thought that I might want it in the "carport" where it would be easier to access.


----------



## Bruce

thistlebloom said:


> We have extremely rocky soil soil we didn't even try the anchors. We pounded in three t-posts per side and tied the legs to them. Another thing I found useful was to run rope in a zigzag over the beam and eaves (?) between the purlins (hopefully that's the right terminology). The amount of space between the purlins is large enough that with any snow the roof will belly out and make it difficult to remove. Same with a hard rain. The rope support helps it shed a little better.


I'll be putting in some rope support based on your suggestion as I can surely imagine that will happen. We had big south winds today, gusting to mid 30's. The front and rear legs were rotating (they are L shaped on the ground, the "foot" of the L pointing in. That caused the other 2 legs on that side to shift toward the front. Since it isn't on a concrete pad I didn't use the concrete anchors on the middle legs (couldn't could I??). I sank some 6" Timberlocks against the sides of the corner "Ls" so they couldn't rotate and stuck a couple through the holes of one of the side legs into the 2 pieces of wood under it. Yeah, a temporary solution but holding at least for now. A couple of short T posts might be an excellent idea.


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## Bruce

Some fall foliage photos for the unfortunates 

The post on the right on the far gate is the one where the brace wire went "pop" when I tightened it.


----------



## Bruce

OK, the EV station installation "project" 

The location - NE corner of the house
  

First, dig a trench. 
   


Don't forget to find a lot of rocks and old pieces of asphalt. That dark thing on the right is the biggest hunk of asphalt still covered with dirt. Also a couple of odd pieces of metal. The one on the left is some sort of threaded bolt with a pin.


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## Bruce

Since was done to code, individual 6 gauge conductors in PVC conduit 18" deep. Since this would be hard to find in the future especially since it isn't a straight line, document the location
     

Note that the hole into the crawl space took HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS!!!!! In fact over 2 days of work with tools I had, multiple trips to the hardware store, then the other hardware store. While I had checked and measured inside the crawlspace to make sure I wouldn't be coming in on a stud AND I started outside 1/2" higher than the center of the half inch pipe for the spigot, I hit the top 1/4" of the foundation wall. I'll spare you the details but the plumbers hit the same thing with their 1/2" PEX but they were able to drill a bit higher from the inside and flex the PEX over the wall. 1" PVC conduit doesn't flex that much.


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## Bruce

Into the crawl space from the basement  
hang a left to crawl in then to the right   
and go to the far corner  (WAY TOO MANY TIMES!) 

Note how chewed up the foam and wood is for the water pipe. I also noticed that the "frost free" spigot doesn't come all the way into the crawl space. Too bad that hadn't caught my attention before I started drilling from the outside. Maybe I would have noticed the PEX arching over the concrete wall. 
    

Outside single conductors connected to the inside 6-2 wire. Yes there is a cover on the junction box now


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## Bruce

The service panel was full, not one slot available and not the kind where a tandem (1/2 width) breaker can be used so I had to make space for a double breaker. The bottom breaker wasn't labeled on the sheet but I figured out it was only servicing the outlet right below the panel (with only the network switch plugged in) and the dishwasher. Neither are heavy loads. The one above it labeled "Prius" goes to a switched outlet on the NE corner of the house and was originally intended for use with the block heater in my 2009 Prius. (*). Given the minimal load of all 3 of those things, I pigtailed the "Prius" wire with the ones for the dishwasher and the outlet below the panel and moved the Living room wire down to the "Prius" breaker.

  

That opened up 1 breaker above the pool pump breaker. Since the pool pump runs only in the summer and the furnace in the crawlspace only in the winter, I pulled and capped off the pool breaker and freed up space for the 40A double breaker. I can swap the pool wire with the furnace wire (2 breakers down) in May (**).

  

Charging station wired and ready for use.
  

* A Prius will start without cranking and running down a 12V battery to "er, er, er, nothing" no matter how cold it is since it uses the big electric motor and battery to start the ICE through the transmission instead of a wussy starter motor like most ICE vehicles. I used the block heater figuring the engine would be warmer faster for better MPG and cabin heat on cold mornings. But during the house rebuild I got laid off in July 2013 along with 1,000+ other people when the company "right sized" so Global Foundaries would TAKE $2B to "buy" the chip fabs. I ended up retiring and never did need to use the block heater prior to the car being totalled in Feb 2019. I have been using the outlet to charge the Prime if I didn't need "fast" charging of the 6.6 kWh battery (about 6 hours on 110V). The electric company gave me an EV station for the Prime which I installed in the barn and I've used if I made more than one trip off the property per day and for the Leaf once we got it mid August. But it isn't real accessible in the winter and they gave us another one for the Leaf so the relatively minimal cost for parts to connect it to the panel was worth doing.

** In the planning stages of adding another solar array and battery storage since the Leaf sucks up 62 kWh if it is "empty". Well more than the excess kWh's being generated by the current array. That will entail a sub panel so I don't really expect to need to swap the pool and furnace wires seasonally.


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## Bruce

And then on to filling in the trench. I did go "cheap" here and used flagging tape instead of paying $20 for a large roll of "utility warning" tape when I needed only 20'. Still better than the conduit from the solar panels to the inverter on the house. The excavator guy didn't have any warning tape so he just filled in the trench. 
I put tape on the conduit as well as a few inches above it so if anyone digs there in the future they will hit the first warning before they get to the conduit. Of course that meant I had a lot of hand shoveling to do so the upper tape didn't just get flattened down onto the conduit. 


  

I still don't know what I'm going to do with the asphalt pieces so I left them on the pallet forks for the moment.


The next project is a "house" for the EV station. It is weather proof but I'd really prefer it not be covered with ice, freezing rain and snow.


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## thistlebloom

Whew! That seems like a complicated project. Glad you have it mostly done before winter!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Wow, Mr Bruce!  I'm impressed!   And thanks so much for the pictures. Even this Texas Aggie could follow along.  I am glad that you were not having to work in rain or snow. How long did that end up taking you to do, start to finish? BTW, beautiful foliage.


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## Bruce

Check the date/time stamps on the photos  10-9 through 10-23 ... way too long!

I didn't HAVE to work in the rain .... and didn't so that delayed things a bit. And that problem with the foundation wall, that sucked up 2 days of effort. And there was the temp. Even though the post is pressure treated (old post that held up the roof over the entry door when we bought the place) I wanted to prime it and the oil based primer required 50° and at least 5 hours after painting that the temp not drop below that. Then more rain so I couldn't paint it with the latex coat. Then more rain so not filling in the trench.

And I still have to make the "house" for it. I started during the rain times and made decent progress but now I think I made it too narrow so I'm going to change it. Which means that other than the basic design (which I rethought several times) I've not gotten much done on it


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## Baymule

I am impressed with your electrical prowess. Electricity is something I know nothing about--and do not fool with! You did a great job!


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## Bruce

Thanks Bay. Basic wiring really isn't hard (except for all the trips on hands and knees to the far end of the crawlspace). There are, of course, code rules to follow but that is easy enough to find ... for the simple "new breaker to 'device'" wiring I did. I wouldn't attempt the net metered solar array and battery stuff.


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## farmerjan

Electricity is one thing I REFUSE to fool with.  Good for you.  Have had some issues in the past with faulty wiring in a house I was in.... no fire but sparks and smoldering at a plug in.  NOPE, I will call someone everytime.


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## Bruce

If I had sparks and smoldering I'd jump on that before the place burned down waiting for the electrician! 

Electricians are way expensive. The crew that did the work here when half the house was being rebuilt was $110/hr for the master electrician and $50 for the apprentices. If I had the time I would have run the wires and installed the devices myself. And I would have had a 3 lamp wall sconce (which still sits new in it's box) at the top of the stairs and a lamp on the midpoint landing (U shaped stairs) on a 3 way switch like I planned instead if just the midpoint lamp. I thought they understood what was to go there since there was 12-3 wire in a round box on the wall. Turns out that was for the hardwired smoke alarm. No way to rewire with all the sheetrock up and taped. Instead of doing that work I was replacing all the cloth covered ungrounded wire and ungrounded outlets in the other half of the house.

DW, her dad and I did the electric and plumbing when we redid the old house in '91. Didn't hurt that my FIL had retired from his business installing gas stations and had previously held a master electrician license  I will say that it took a bit if staring at the book and head scratching to figure out the 4 way switch setup. There was a light at the top of the stairs and one just around the corner in the short hall to a bathroom and bedroom. 3 switches upstairs and 1 at the bottom of the stairs. But the current owners don't have to guess where the wires go, every piece of Romex coming out of the service panel is labeled as are all the junction boxes.


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## Bruce

Yesterday and this morning I "fixed" 2 more cast iron pans. I don't care what Lodge thinks, their "pre seasoned" lumpy coating is not nearly as good as the old pans from before the mid '50s that were smooth. And who cares about "pre seasoning"? It isn't like the coating will last forever, it has to be seasoned every so often anyway (according to some on YT, even before first use). And since the "peaks and valleys are relatively high/deep, it takes a fair number of thin oil seasoning coats and heating to fill them in and things STILL stick to the pan.

The answer - get out the angle grinder and flap discs and take off their lumpy coating.  The top pans are the ones I did today, not yet seasoned. The one on the right is the top for the Dutch Oven below it. That has the original coating. The 10" pan lower left is one I did about a month ago, it has been seasoned and used. Hardly any sticking at all. 





The 10" pan


The pre seasoned coating on the Dutch Oven. The difference doesn't seem to show well in the pictures.


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## Bruce

Worked on the "shelter" for the EV station. I had previously made quite a bit of progress only to find out it would be too narrow to easily use and HEAVY. Plus, so it wouldn't look like just an ugly box, I was going to put siding on it and paint it the same color as the house. Even MORE weight and the door hasn't even been decided on yet. 
 

So today's progress. I'm replacing at least the sides with just siding and making the box a bit deeper front to back. Got 1 side mostly done.


The boards in front are temporary, just there to hold the front pieces up in place. At this point it still has the original narrow back. I still have to decide just what I want to do back there when I make it wider since the entire enclosure will be screwed to the post through the back.  Not sure if siding is up to the task though I suppose it might be strong enough if I screwed through a number of them. And I still have to decide about the front. Do I want a nearly full length door or a shorter one with a small cutout for the cable to stick out when it is in use?


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## Baymule

I love my iron skillets. I have some that belonged to my mom, others that I picked up here and there. I had a couple that belonged to my ex's granny, I took them with me when I left. I gave them to my son a few years ago, knowing that he would love and use them. I like your sander idea, the new skillets are not smooth. When mine get crusty, I put them in a fire and leave them until the coals are cold. The iron skillet comes out gray and new again for me to season and start over.


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## Bruce

You are lucky to have the GOOD cast iron, sometimes old is better.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Wow, Mr. Bruce!  You have been busy!  Are you planning to make a door in the front of the charging station so that the cable can be plugged into the receptacle on the car and still protect the inside of the housing in case of bad weather, such as wind and rain, wind and snow, etc.?  I swear you ought to start a YouTube channel -- Homesteading with Bruce, or something like that!


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## Finnie

Bruce said:


> Yesterday and this morning I "fixed" 2 more cast iron pans. I don't care what Lodge thinks, their "pre seasoned" lumpy coating is not nearly as good as the old pans from before the mid '50s that were smooth. And who cares about "pre seasoning"? It isn't like the coating will last forever, it has to be seasoned every so often anyway (according to some on YT, even before first use). And since the "peaks and valleys are relatively high/deep, it takes a fair number of thin oil seasoning coats and heating to fill them in and things STILL stick to the pan.
> 
> The answer - get out the angle grinder and flap discs and take off their lumpy coating.  The top pans are the ones I did today, not yet seasoned. The one on the right is the top for the Dutch Oven below it. That has the original coating. The 10" pan lower left is one I did about a month ago, it has been seasoned and used. Hardly any sticking at all.
> 
> View attachment 78538
> 
> 
> The 10" pan
> View attachment 78539
> 
> The pre seasoned coating on the Dutch Oven. The difference doesn't seem to show well in the pictures.
> View attachment 78540





Baymule said:


> I love my iron skillets. I have some that belonged to my mom, others that I picked up here and there. I had a couple that belonged to my ex's granny, I took them with me when I left. I gave them to my son a few years ago, knowing that he would love and use them. I like your sander idea, the new skillets are not smooth. When mine get crusty, I put them in a fire and leave them until the coals are cold. The iron skillet comes out gray and new again for me to season and start over.


Maybe this is why I have trouble with my cast iron. I have two, and they are the newer “preseasoned” kind. I follow the instructions on the Lodge website for how to take care of them, and I’ve looked at many websites that claim to be experts with cast iron. But I either get black crud on my paper towel when I dry them prior to oiling and heating them, or if not black crud, I feel like I’ve scrubbed every bit of “seasoning” off of them and have to start over every time I use them.  I think it’s the bumpy texture that’s the problem.
Bruce, should I dremel them inside and out? Or just the inner cooking surface? How did you learn about this “fix”?


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## Bruce

I'd seen the fix a couple of times on YouTube and most recently again on the Lumnah Acres channel which I follow. I finally decided to get brave and try it on an 8" frying pan since I've seen Al Lumnah doing many many projects and felt comfortable with his advice on this.

You only need to do the cooking area, no need to do the outside. And when you season it, Al suggests doing it twice in succession. I think he is the first I've seen to suggest preheating the pans before adding oil and putting them in the oven. He also uses a lower oven temp of 325°. After that the surface is WAY smoother than the "pre seasoned" pans even after they are seasoned again (because you always have to periodically reseason cast iron) with a much thicker coat of "burned on" oil.





I'm not sure how well a dremel would work though because it would be really hard to keep the surface flat. I used the 4 1/2" angle grinder I bought a year ago at Harbor Freight. Hardly the fanciest thing around so not expensive at all - $20, especially if you use the 20% coupon. If I had a lot of use for one I would have bought a higher quality one. That said, I've more than gotten my < $20 worth and it still works just fine. Then of course you need to buy the flap discs. I bought all 3 grits they had, the finest is 120. Then used an orbital palm sander. Once FINALLY done I then used steel wool.  This is NOT a fast process.


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## rachels.haven

Good thing you didn't wash it with soap. (jk, btw)
I need to do that now.


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## Bruce

rachels.haven said:


> Good thing you didn't wash it with soap. (jk, btw)


I might have done that a time or two  But you are right I'd always heard you should never use soap on cast iron. The "seasoning" will wear off (that is the little black bits, it isn't cast iron bits) over time whether you use soap or not but the important thing is to dry the pans after washing and apply a VERY SMALL amount of oil to the cooking surface to make sure the pan doesn't rust. The oil pretty much shouldn't even be visible.


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## Finnie

Bruce said:


> I'd seen the fix a couple of times on YouTube and most recently again on the Lumnah Acres channel which I follow. I finally decided to get brave and try it on an 8" frying pan since I've seen Al Lumnah doing many many projects and felt comfortable with his advice on this.
> 
> You only need to do the cooking area, no need to do the outside. And when you season it, Al suggests doing it twice in succession. I think he is the first I've seen to suggest preheating the pans before adding oil and putting them in the oven. He also uses a lower oven temp of 325°. After that the surface is WAY smoother than the "pre seasoned" pans even after they are seasoned again (because you always have to periodically reseason cast iron) with a much thicker coat of "burned on" oil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how well a dremel would work though because it would be really hard to keep the surface flat. I used the 4 1/2" angle grinder I bought a year ago at Harbor Freight. Hardly the fanciest thing around so not expensive at all - $20, especially if you use the 20% coupon. If I had a lot of use for one I would have bought a higher quality one. That said, I've more than gotten my < $20 worth and it still works just fine. Then of course you need to buy the flap discs. I bought all 3 grits they had, the finest is 120. Then used an orbital palm sander. Once FINALLY done I then used steel wool.  This is NOT a fast process.


I happened to be at Lowe’s the other day so I asked them about flap grinders and about dremel tips I could use. The guy and I both agreed that dremel was not the way to go. I ended up getting a 2” wire cup brush that can go on my cordless drill. But now that I’ve watched that video you linked, maybe I will see if my husband has an orbital palm sander. It sounds familiar, so I think he does have one.
I’m glad you posted that video, it really gives me a better idea of what to do. Thanks!


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## Bruce

You can start with the drill brush, let me know how that works. I have one but didn't think to start with it. I do still have the bottom of the dutch oven to do and given the high sides I can't really see how I could get the grinder in there, surely it won't sit flat, probably wouldn't be any better than a dremel. I think the palm sander will fit ... if I take off the dust bag.

I THINK that the flap sanding 'pads' will outlive an orbital sander pad. People probably use them for smoothing metal where an orbital sander is designed for wood. So be prepared to use a lot of the coarsest grit pads you can get and work your way up to finer. Good luck and don't forget your PPE - dust mask and ear protection.

We will require some pictures of course!


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## rachels.haven

Bruce said:


> I might have done that a time or two  But you are right I'd always heard you should never use soap on cast iron. The "seasoning" will wear off (that is the little black bits, it isn't cast iron bits) over time whether you use soap or not but the important thing is to dry the pans after washing and apply a VERY SMALL amount of oil to the cooking surface to make sure the pan doesn't rust. The oil pretty much shouldn't even be visible.




 ...I use soap. So far so good. My parents strip their pans regularly in the dishwasher and have the same lodge pans they got over 30 years ago...but they are smooth now, inside and out, probably from the dishwasher detergent. Not sure I'm going to be copying that, but the pans survive. Personally I like finish on my pan. I bet one could skip the years of dishwashing and having naked pans with a sander.


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## thistlebloom

My Lodge pan that I use the most (10 ish years old now) is perfectly smooth inside, just from almost daily use. I don't have a problem with handwashing my iron in soapy water. I know it's not orthodox, but it works out alright for me. I always dry them on the stove burner and rub a tiny bit of oil on them while still warm before putting them away.
I use my iron for almost everything these days, love that stuff!


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## Bruce

Yeah, I'm a little off on "Teflon" myself though I do have an 8" and a 12" pan. One gets a bit nervous about non-skid cookware when they have to throw away two pizzas that ended up with a nice shiny silver underside. And yes the then not so non-skid coated pizza pans went out at the same time.


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## thistlebloom

I think Kid#2 is planning on getting me a cast iron pizza pan for Christmas.
I have two stone pans that work well, but sure wouldn't turn down iron!


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## Bruce

I've never used a pizza stone. What is the supposed value of it?


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## thistlebloom

Well supposedly the surface heats more evenly and bakes the crust better. 
I do think I like mine cooked on the stone over a pan, but it's been a long time since I've used a baking sheet for pizza.
I have to admit though, that I also like store bought take-n-bake pizza that cooks on those paper things too. 
My taste buds are equal opportunity and not so well educated it seems.


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## Finnie

I have a set of super expensive stainless steel pans that we splurged on about 15 years ago. I love them. No need for non stick, these clean up very easily. I ditched my non stick anyway when I got parakeets in 2008. So even though I love the idea of cooking with cast iron, it’s just an occasional thing with me if a recipe specifically is geared towards it. Which is probably why I can’t get them broken in properly.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Finnie said:


> I ditched my non stick anyway when I got parakeets in 2008.



Are parakeets susceptible to the effects of non stick cookware being used, akin to canaries being susceptible to methane as is found in coalmines, or was it simply a coincidence that you got parakeets and got rid of your non stick cookware?


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## Mike CHS

Non-stick cooking appliances and self-cleaning ovens release a colorless, odorless gaseous toxin and can cause death to a bird within 24 hours.  I never used them when I had parrots either.


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## Bruce

The first pass REALLY heavy (and no siding yet) EV station "house" which turned out to be too small



New larger "house", primed and no 3/4" boards on 3 sides, siding only. Sometimes one needs to THINK about just how sturdy things need to be!!


Installed. Not sure what I'm going to do about the door yet. It faces east and the wind almost always comes from the south, west and north so snow shouldn't be blowing in too much.
 

99.9% of the house is stuff I had around already. Needed to buy 2 stainless screws and fender washers to screw the house into the post from the back and a box of stainless siding nails because I ran out.

Since STA wants pictures of all my VERY exciting projects 

While I had the angle grinder out to cut the roof for the "EV House" I made "covers" for the wood racks so snow won't be piling on top then melting into the wood. Nothing to keep it out of the sides but that is usually minimal. The racks are 38" deep and the old roofing is conveniently 38" wide


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Since STA wants pictures of all my VERY exciting projects



Thank you, Mr. @Bruce!  Great job!


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## Finnie

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Are parakeets susceptible to the effects of non stick cookware being used, akin to canaries being susceptible to methane as is found in coalmines, or was it simply a coincidence that you got parakeets and got rid of your non stick cookware?





Mike CHS said:


> Non-stick cooking appliances and self-cleaning ovens release a colorless, odorless gaseous toxin and can cause death to a bird within 24 hours.  I never used them when I had parrots either.


Yes, exactly as Mike CHS said. And if you inadvertently overheat the Teflon, your bird can die rapidly. Even though it doesn’t kill us, I can’t imagine it is doing us any good, either. Now ceramic nonstick pans are readily available and they claim to be safe. At least, their labels say PFOA free etc. I have gotten a few of those.


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## Larsen Poultry Ranch

I just finally got to the end of your journal, looks like you have done a ton to your property! My in-laws have that kind of soil, can barely dig without hitting a rock; I'm hoping my new place isn't the same but we haven't had to dig yet. 

Did you ever figure out what caused your garden tractor to not turn on intermittently? I'm sorry if I missed it. I was wondering if it's because you weren't sitting in the seat when you tried to turn it on. Some tractors/mowers have a "safety feature" to prevent operator injury and won't start/change gears or will even shut off if the person doesn't stay seated.


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## Bruce

Not a safety switch issue. After taking the starter out (incorrectly at first, it is a royal PITA to get the brushes backed out and the commutator put back in place!) it worked. I guess the starter somehow "froze". Maybe I could have just smacked it with a hammer or something.

I hope you have rocks only where you want them!


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## Baymule

Or put duct tape on it somewhere........


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## promiseacres

thistlebloom said:


> I think Kid#2 is planning on getting me a cast iron pizza pan for Christmas.
> I have two stone pans that work well, but sure wouldn't turn down iron!


I have one on my "list"


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir!

Have you gotten much if any snow there in NW Vermont?  I don't recall you having mentioned it.  The reason I am asking is that I watched a YouTube video recently where some guy had a snow blower on his tractor, and many of his neighbors would hire him to clear their driveways.  Do you have neighbors like that, who might need their driveways cleared.  I saw a YouTube video on the Colorado Mountain Living channel that showed the wife driving the tractor by herself for the first time clearing their driveway using a rear mounted snow blower:






Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Only a small bit of snow so far and it has melted. There are people who have their driveways done but it won't be by me. And there is no way on this green (or white) earth I would EVER get a rear snowblower. First I can't even imagine what shape I would be in having spent a lot of time twisted around to see where I was going. Second, I don't have a long driveway where you can aim and go, I have to work around a lot of obstacles. A rear blower on the real tractor would be very inefficient and likely result in damage to cars. 

I did buy a new winch for the blower on the garden tractor since I figure the broken part of the old one couldn't likely be welded. The new one is a new part number but is the exact same winch with a MUCH shorter cable. I guess they figured out you don't need 50' of cable to pull the lifting mechanism on the blower back 3". It kept over wrapping, getting the "running part" stuck under the part on the reel. I'm sure it would be fine for whatever work the generic winch was actually designed to do. 

At one point I replaced the cable with a shorter "rope" cable, that worked for awhile until it wore through. So I cut off a length of the metal cable with the loop and  thimble on it and put that on the winch, all OK again until .... the cable frayed right at the thimble while I was using the blower. Of course it dropped to the ground and there is no way to get it back to the barn dragging it on the ground. So I made a loop in the cable and put a couple of cable clamps on it, finished the work. I THOUGHT everything was OK until I got off the tractor and saw that the 2 parallel bars that hold the side of the winch plate to the motor were bent and one broken off. Spool for the wire barely hanging in the motor. The bars have a thin threaded end that goes into the motor and female thread for small screws to hold them to the plate on the other end. Thus I had bent threaded ends and bent and stripped out screws on the other end. 

I just used the real tractor last year and could again this year except .... Last year there were 3 cars max since DD1 had her car at school in Canada (and does now). I could move enough snow for DW and DD2 to get out to work then have only my car to deal with later. But DW kept her 2006 Prius (drives it to work once a week) when we got the Leaf and her sister is living here at least through the end of the year (she's a teacher in VA and they are fully remote) so she can visit their parents (except that there are severe Covid driven limitations on anyone going into the community now), there will be at LEAST 3 cars to deal with when DD2 goes back to work and DW is at work and as many as 5 in the morning before they leave. I can maneuver the front mounted snow blower on the garden tractor around the cars much more easily than pushing snow with the bucket on the tractor.


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## Baymule

I can't even begin to fathom the necessity to dig out my car as part of my morning routine to go to work.


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## thistlebloom

A walk behind blower is perfect around here for clearing the driveway, 150'ish, plus all the house walkways and animal chore paths. Usually dh uses the quad with the plow for the driveway, but there comes a time when you don't have anywhere left to push the snow, so the blower is good for carving out bigger spots.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> I can't even begin to fathom the necessity to dig out my car as part of my morning routine to go to work.


I don't dig out my car to go to work, I'm retired! 
I clear out DW and DD2's cars though. I figure if DW is going to work I can at least get her on her way. And I'm already out there so I make a path for DD2's car as well. Not real hard with the blower on the garden tractor. Usually I move enough snow so they can get out then clear everything later when the sun is up and it MIGHT be warmer.


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## Bruce

Happenings on the "farm". 

Got the chains on the rear tires of the garden tractor and about 100# of weight on the back. You can sure feel the weight of the blower on the front, it is like driving a car without power steering. The weight behind the axle gets more traction on the rear tires and balances a bit of the weight way out front. In any case, with the blower on the GT it is a real slug, it can't back up any sort of hill. Have to make a cul-de-sac and turn around. 

One of the Christmas Cacti 



They came to put in the ground screws for the new array today and dig a trench to the old one so they can use the existing conduit to the house. Not the most exciting pictures

  

I have no idea when they will be back to build the racks and put in the panels. Heck, I didn't know until after noon yesterday that they were doing this work today!
The guy that came yesterday afternoon to mark out where the anchor posts were to go didn't know when the batteries will be in. Apparently they are in somewhat short supply. IF I'm lucky they can get it finished this month. 

Looks like someone up the hill is moving. I saw a truck pulling a trailer FULL of plastic kid "yard toys" and if you look at the top left of the first construction picture, there is a U-Haul truck at the first (of 8) house up the hill.


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## B&B Happy goats

Happy Anniversary  Bruce


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## Bruce

Thanks Barb 

Got an email from the solar company, they want to put the panels in Thursday next week. That is good! Not sure that they will be doing electrical work at the same time or not but they seem to do things with crews that have a single function so the electricians could be doing some stuff while someone else is putting up the racks and panels.


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## thistlebloom

So that will double your solar capturing capacity?
We seem to have an overwhelming majority of dark days in the winter season. Is there some sort of calculation of sun hours/year that makes it more cost effective in some locations?

Oh! And happy anniversary to you and your wife!


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## Bruce

Thanks!

Not double but the new panels/electronics are apparently more efficient than the 5 year old ones. The original array is 24 panels, 6.6 kW. The new one is 12 panels and 4.3 kW.


----------



## Baymule

Happy Anniversary! 

Are you off grid?


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

As others have said, Happy 30th Anniversary!

Thanks for the pictures.  I hope the installation goes smoothly and quickly.

Regarding the GT with the snow blower, how about some pictures?


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Are you off grid?


Nope. Right on the road though based on the wiring in the original part of the house I suspect they didn't have electricity until the 40's. One would definitely need a generator AND a big bank of batteries to be off grid in Oct - Feb. We generated about half of what we used last month .... EXCLUDING the electricity to charge the Leaf. I'm not so sure that off-grid and electric cars is currently a viable combination. There are losses going into and out of the batteries. The Leaf has a 62 kWh battery, would likely need twice that to reliably run the house and charge the car.

The "sad" thing about grid connected solar is if the grid goes down, the inverter shuts off (presumably so someone working on the line won't get fried) so even if it is a bright sunny day you have no power ..... unless you have batteries.

Given the current IRS tax credit rules the batteries can not be charged from the grid (not that they would likely come around to check) but the design is to run the house off the solar and batteries, extra going to the grid. Not putting the heavy hitters on the batteries though. Like the electric wall oven, bathroom floor heat, EV charger, pool pump. Will definitely have the well pump, lights etc "off grid" except for when we don't make enough power to fill the batteries. Our battery storage will be 27 kWh though one shouldn't drag them all the way down to 0 nor charge them to 100% with any frequency, doing so shortens the life of the batteries. But, IN THEORY, during the sunnier times of the year we should be able to run the house off the batteries.



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Regarding the GT with the snow blower, how about some pictures?


No snow yet! Well, it is flurrying lightly now but it is just above freezing so no accumulation of the expected 0.3" :lol


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## Baymule

Thanks for the explanation on your solar.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

I saw on the weather report that New England is about to get hit with a bad Nor'easter, with snow in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine, and maybe even Massachusetts where Miss @rachels.haven is.  I hope you don't get hit too badly.


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## farmerjan

Looks like they are already getting hit.   Heard there is alot of power outages.


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## Bruce

More likely Rachel than us, we are expecting MAYBE 1/2", it is running up the coast


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## rachels.haven

(dlkfjsdkjfdkdjfsk!)

So...anyone want a snow filled care package?


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## Bruce

No thanks, I'm sure we'll get plenty of our own later on. 


On second thought could you send a few tons to the Smuggler's Notch ski area so DD2 can go back to work?


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir!

Haven't heard from you in a couple of weeks and I am wondering if you are OK.  Please let us know, as I enjoy your posts.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Still living! Though I will admit to having been sucked into the talent shows on the internet. Some amazing people out there!

DW takes her 2006 Prius on Saturdays. It wouldn't start Saturday, it was a toasty 1°F, so she hopped in the Leaf. ALWAYS plug your electric car in even if you don't think you are going to use it "tomorrow"! A check later said the battery was at 7V. Not sure why, she drove it the prior Saturday. So I got that charged to 100%. Kinda funny in that she kept the Prius in case she had issues with the Leaf in the winter. I would expect a 4 month old car to be more reliable than a 14 Y/O car with nearly 250K miles on it. 

DD2 went back to work Saturday. Her car wouldn't start either, I think the 12V has been run down a time too many by not driving the car. I had to jump it a couple of times this summer. I doubt she's driven it 6 times in the last 9 months. Figured out pretty quick it wasn't going to charge enough to jump with a battery state of 2V (and of course she was already running late) so I let her take my Prime - which was a big surprise to her. I've not heard a Thank You yet. 

I charged the battery in the car Saturday, the charger said the battery was at 100% but it didn't start yesterday either. She took DW's Prius (the other reason DW wanted to keep it). I checked the battery, 7V. I put it on the charger and it sat at 73% for several hours of 2A slow charge so I called Advance Auto to see if they had a 12V for that car. Given you need zero Cold Cranking Amps to start a Prius the battery is a smaller size, lower CCA and higher on the Amp Hour capacity than a 12V for pure ICE vehicles which have starter motors. They didn't have one but their computer said the store 22 miles south had one. I called, he said he had 4 so I drove down and got one. 

By the time I got home the wind was picking up and bits of snow were starting to fall. I did get lucky, the car started so I backed it down to the barn planning to put the tail end inside. But I needed to move the GT with snowblower attached. I got the "clunk" from the starter instead of the "rrrr, rrrr, rrrr". DAMN!! 

Well, OK, at least I was up to the barn door opening, I clamped a tarp to the side of the open hatch (2004-2015 Prius has the 12V behind the right rear wheel) so at least I was out of the snow and wind. Given I've replaced the 12V on 4 (5??) separate Prii the technique wasn't unfamiliar though there is a bit of contortion needed which isn't as easy as it was 12 years ago when I did the first one. The only thing I heard regarding the time and effort to fix her car was her asking about the lead core charge and removal on the receipt. Of course I never heard squat when she used my old Prius 5 days a week for 5 weeks in Jan/Feb last year while her's was being repaired following her accident. 

The car started fine today, though unless she was *REAL* heavy on the pedal, she was late for work. She plays on her iPod instead of getting ready THEN playing. I wonder if she will ever learn. I guess I'm too old. I figure she should be leaving to arrive at least 5 minutes EARLY in case there are any "on the road" problems. As far as I'm concerned, 5 minutes early is ON TIME.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

A wise person told me once that you have to_ teach people how to treat you._  Perhaps your DD needs a lesson, lol.  I'm certainly not one to tell folks how to lead their life or deal with their family, but I think the keys to my car would remain deep in my pocket if my child couldn't express gratitude.  "Please" and "Thank-you" go a long way in my world.  A major life lesson is to learn to have_ an attitude of gratitude_.

All of that aside - I would never be able to function in your kind of weather and you are to be commended for dealing with all that crap, lol!


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## thistlebloom

Brrr! That's pretty nippy!
 Our weather seems to think this is Portland OR.  
Snow on the ground and staying would be much appreciated by this girl. It makes a lot of my outside chores more pleasant, and more easier  , haha.
Come on real winter!


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## Bruce

Amazingly we have taught both girls to send Thank You's to people who give them gifts. Apparently parents don't count as "people".


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## farmerjan

You know I am a true Yankee, and tend to speak my mind.  I have to agree with @frustratedearthmother .  It is well past time for you to sit down with DD2 with a list of all that you have done, what you continue to do,  what she has done, her attitude as perceived by you.... and her lack of appreciation and her inability to be a responsible adult.  Is she still doing the required work to pitch in there that you had stipulated  was necessary back awhile ago????  To be fair to her, did you ask for or make her do things when she was younger??? If not, then maybe she just hasn't picked up on what is proper considerate action.  If you did try to teach her, then maybe it is time to tell her that she has until spring or whatever date... to get her life together and find her own place.  She is past old enough to be out on her own and dealing with her own problems and responsibilities.  You are doing her no favors by allowing her to continue to take and not give back and not being a contributing member of your family, let alone of society.  If things go to he// in this country, you will be her supporter for the rest of your life and she will drain you down to the point,  like the battery, you will not have enough reserve left to recharge.  
You are too nice a person to your DD.... you and your wife deserve better than to have an "adult"  child living off you when there is no good reason, like some sort of special needs or learning disabled child that you will have to take care of for the rest of your life.   Tough Love...... 
I am not perfect, and my situation with my son is not always great.  BUT,  I do not support him financially;  he takes care of his own finances..... sometimes I get aggravated, but if it were push come to shove,  he would do for me and I would do for him..... he is not a constant user.  Like with my trucks.... he is getting the clutch done.... he has talked to 2 different mechanics to try to figure out the problems with the 4x4.   He found the outback even though it is not perfect, it is serving the purpose.  
Years ago, after being out on his own, he moved back with me for 6 months or so.  He paid towards the bills at the house.  He knew that I was not made of money, that he added to my costs, and that he needed to help.  
I get uptight with some things now.... feel a little pushed aside with the farming stuff due to the gf situation.... and I really don't want to see him get devastated like he was the last time..... but I cannot control it and I can't prevent him from living his life.  Sometimes I do vent here,  when I get really aggravated.... but he is not a user in that way.  More forgetful or not putting the priorities on the same things I do.  
You deserve to be appreciated and shown that.  You need to make it happen.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Amazingly we have taught both girls to send Thank You's to people who give them gifts. Apparently parents don't count as "people".


They certainly need to appreciate you and your wife. They won't know what they have until y'all aren't there any more.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

Thanks for letting us know what you have been up to.

Since my Beautiful Gal and I never had any kids, I won't comment on how to raise yours.  I think what the others said makes a lot of sense.

You have had a good bit of bad luck with batteries being ornery.  Do you normally have this much trouble when the temperature gets cold like that?  Are there additives for batteries that help them hold charges better in cold weather?  Do you put the batteries on trickle charge overnight?  I really hate that you had all those problems and am wondering if that is normal when it gets really cold or if it is unusual.  I would hate to think of having to get out in 0°F with windchills well below that to work on batteries.  Brrrr!

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

I guess neither of us has enough backbone to tell her to shape up or ship out. She did keep up with the help around the house ... for a while. I guess I just don't want to deal with riding her.

STA, I don't have particular problems with batteries. They don't last forever! With ICE vehicles up here in the cold you find out your battery is weak when the first real cold night hits and the next morning it goes "RRRRRR, RRRRrrrrr, RRrrrr, rrrrrr, nothing". It might start the same afternoon when the temp has risen to well above freezing. Since the Prius 12V doesn't have to turn the engine over you don't get that "hint". 

The reason I've changed so many Prius batteries is because we've had 6 of them including my current car. And we keep them for a long time (or until someone hits me and totals my car  )
I replaced the one in my 2004 probably around 2010, it was totalled in 2012. I don't remember when I replaced the 12V in the 2009 that replaced it, bought used. I replaced the original 12V in DW's car at some point, it is now 14 years old with nearly 250K miles on it. I replaced the 12V in DD1's 2010, it was given to her by DW's parents early in 2018 when they bought a new one. 

I don't know the history on DD2's car since she bought it used. I replaced the 12V couple of years ago. I'm sure DD2's battery was damaged by the car not being driven. There are still drains on it like the clock and the flashing engine immobilizer light. There is no other explanation as to why it isn't holding a charge other than maybe it was killed once too often in the past 9 months.

Not sure what happened with DW's Prius last Saturday. I should probably check the voltage tomorrow or Friday just to see but it started and ran fine when DD2 took it to work on Sunday. I did notice that it beeped when I opened the door after I charged it on Saturday, DD2 has said in the past that her car does that. DW said she figured out (the hard way) that it does that if it didn't shut down correctly. So maybe that happened the last time she drove it?? I went back out to her car, started it, then shut it down, opened the door and no beep. 

The only time any of mine have done that is when I get out of the car without shutting it down. But then I KNEW I hadn't turned it off since I would just be gone a minute, delivering eggs usually. AND, as I recall, it doesn't beep when I open the door to get out but when I shut it.


----------



## Bruce

We are supposed to get @B&B Happy goats kind of weather tomorrow, rain and almost 60°F. That will make the "forest trail" an unusable mess until it gets cold enough to freeze the ground again. So I went out today to see about pulling in some of that big blow over, it is about 16" in diameter and straight as can be. I marked 8' lengths, 4 of them to the root ball. Not sure how tall it was before the neighbor cut it off after it apparently fell on his fence who knows when. Must have easily been 60' given the diameter. I put the chain on the first one before I cut it, easier when it is up in the air  Never got to the other ones as it took 2 hours to get it pulled to the "trail".

I can't get close to it due to some drop offs in the land. I need to replace my 50' low stretch line with a 200' one so I can pull a distance before having to reset things. I ended up using the 50' line, a 30' and a 40' towing strap plus a length of the WAY too stretchy 200' 1/2" anchor line. That line  got REALLY tight when I tried to use just that but the log barely moved. And of course the log got stuck several times up against other trees and a "rise". Had to stuff some other wood under it to get over that. Add a not great "trail" and a couple of turns the tractor had to go around so lots of stops, backing up and resetting.

My Kingdom for a logging winch!!!!!! Boy wouldn't that be nice. But I don't cut enough trees to justify the cost.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Gosh, Mr. @Bruce!

I wish I could come help you with the tree logs.  I have fun like that sometimes whenever I try to remove fallen trees in the woods.  So together perhaps we could get it out more easily.  But then, you may get tired of telling me, "No, STA, you put the chain around the log to pull it, not around a tree that's in the way!  "

I saw a comment on one of the videos on the YouTube channel "Sawing with Sandy" where he was removing some fallen trees using a winch on his four wheeler.  Sandy kept having trouble with the logs getting caught on trees, other logs, and rises in the ground where the pulled log was moving.  The commenter mentioned that he used an old car hood placed under the log so the log would not get hung up.  Maybe you can use something like that (from a totaled Prius ?) to help you.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Baymule

Haha! a car hood for a log skidder! Genius!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir!

Would you kindly take some pictures of your trail from the field into the woods and then of the fallen tree?  I would like to see just what it is that you are dealing with.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

He's a lot tougher than I am!

Wet/soggy or not I wouldn't dare take my tractor in there! Way too many drop offs and such, similar to what I have to work with. But sometimes he's doing it like I did, pull with the machine. I thought about maybe getting an UTV winch to put on the tractor but the info I found says SLOW SLOW SLOW for logging purposes. Still, it might be better than all the resetting while pulling a relatively short distance with the tractor, backing up, resetting and doing it again, and again, and again.



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Would you kindly take some pictures of your trail from the field into the woods and then of the fallen tree? I would like to see just what it is that you are dealing with.


I can maybe do that tomorrow, but I can only show you the root end of the tree. My "logging wench" (*) and I went back out a couple of days ago to get the rest of the tree.  On the way out I saw my neighbor going up the road with his winch on the back of his tractor. I stopped him and asked if he was taking it for one last nostalgic trip and was ready to sell it to me for a reasonable price. Sadly that was not the case.

We cut the rest of the tree into 32" lengths plus the 16" at the root end. That was a bit bigger in diameter than my saw. Each piece was pulled/pushed up to the tractor on the plastic sled. I pulled, she pushed.



I ratchet strapped them to the fork frame then took them up to the "bucking area" by the barn and went back to the edge of the field for the 8' piece I brought out the prior day.

 

Since the garden tractor isn't currently functional I had to bring the wood to the splitter at the little barn today.



If you look carefully you can see the drying/storage rack behind the rounds on the pallet. One side was already about 2/3 full of wood from another log I pulled a month or 2 back. When both sides of a rack are full it is a run, ie 1/3 cord.  We filled up the rest of that rack and have maybe enough for 1/4 of one side of the next one. The sad part about all this is that the entire log wasn't even a run and that is probably the biggest diameter log I've ever dealt with   I can't imagine how many logs people that cut 10 cords have to pull out.

* Logging wench, ie sister-in-law. She's most helpful!!


----------



## thistlebloom

I laughed at your wench reference. 😄
Poor dh sometimes gets vowels in similar words mixed up. 🤭

He was talking about getting a new "wench" for his Jeep recently and made Kid#2 and I laugh. 
"What - I'm not good enough for you anymore?"


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## Bruce

The "logging wench" thing is from BYC. A lady there from MO and her husband cut a LOT of wood so I said I assumed they had a logging winch. She said no, she was the logging wench .... though she meant to type winch. So now I call her my favorite logging wench, she does an amazing amount of stuff with serious health issues, never complains on the forum, just occasionally mentions them slowing her down. Since my SIL is helping I guess I have TWO favorite logging wenches now.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

Thanks for the pictures.  That was a humorous story about your sister-in-law and about your other favorite wench on BYC.



Bruce said:


> On the way out I saw my neighbor going up the road with his winch on the back of his tractor. I stopped him and asked if he was taking it for one last nostalgic trip and was ready to sell it to me for a reasonable price. Sadly that was not the case.



What kind of a neighbor is that!  The ingrate!  



Bruce said:


> Still, it might be better than all the resetting while pulling a relatively short distance with the tractor, backing up, resetting and doing it again, and again, and again.



Have you considered using a longer rope or cable and a snatch block or two so you can pull longer distances?  By using a snatch block or two, you can drive forward along the trail and pull the log up to the trail.  You probably have seen this YouTube video before, but at around 9:40 or so, Mike used a snatch block to be able to pull a log up a hill without it running into trees in the way.  Even though he was using a winch, I think it would work with a long cable or rope tied to your tractor's drawbar.






Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Yes I could use a longer rope so I wouldn't have to reset when the tow strap hooks get to the pulley. Then the "reset" would be taking each pulley off it's respective tree as the log gets to it. Not TOO hard IF one has a logging wench (or other assistant). Otherwise I'd have to be able to see each "next" pulley from the tractor, stop at the appropriate time then get off the tractor to go remove the pulley (which I have done).

Those self releasing snatch blocks cost a few hundred dollars each. From where I was working I'd have needed at least 5 if not 6 blocks to pull the log even 100' because of turns in the trail.

I don't remember how many times I posted on one of Mike's logging videos that he takes enough trees out to justify the cost of a logging winch. I guess I wasn't the only one to do so. Of course once he finally decided to get one, he couldn't believe he hadn't gotten one a lot sooner.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

_Happy New Year, Mr. @Bruce!_

Did you get any snow from the storm that just went through?


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

OK, Mr. @Bruce!  With you in northern Vermont you almost certainly got more snow than fell in west Texas, which rarely gets snow.  So we want to see your snow.

Here is what fell near Iraan, TX, which is on the Pecos river in west Texas:






Senile Texas Aggie


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## Baymule

Our DD sent us her snow pictures from Odessa today. The two little granddaughters made a snowman-about one foot high from 3 carefully placed snowballs! LOL LOL Not enough snow for much more than that!


----------



## Bruce

That is some seriously ugly snow STA! Nothing worse than snow that is as much water as ice. Are you going to post the video of the news reports of all the people who had heart attacks shoveling it next? 

We got about 6", no pictures, it is dark out right now 

I had to use the real tractor to move the snow because you and I are hard luck twins! I figured I should charge the battery on the garden tractor before the snow fell. Somehow the "relay" for the winch touched the now uncovered positive pole of the battery and it fried a thin copper piece (new part on order). The winch went nuts and the cable mangled the curved plate behind the reel. Hopefully that isn't very important because even if I reshape it the only way to put it back on is to take the winch off which is a couple of hours of time given all the bolts that are ALMOST accessible.

New "task". It was decided we needed a "Covid isolation" shower for when my SIL showed up from Virginia on Veterans Day. You see, the DD's refuse to use a tub shower if there is another option so there wasn't any actual need to have the shower set up. I scurried around, ordered a curved shower rod, bought a curtain, replaced the spout with one that had a fitting for a hand held shower. The plumbers figured connecting it up where a regular shower head would go was sufficient. I have a certain "dislike" for professionals, just do what you THINK the customer would want surely don't ask any questions. Of course that means the hand held would be TOTALLY useless if one was using the tub for themselves, a child or a pet. I had the tub/shower all set up for Veterans Day .... except no cold water from the bathtub valve (which has been used MAYBE 3 times since it was put in in 2013).



I took it apart hoping to find something obvious, but first I had to put in some shut off valves because professionals don't care about future maintenance (or figure they can ream you later when repairs are needed). The Pex pipes happen to run up the front wall of the little closet in our bedroom that I lined with cedar. Why they don't run up the east wall (left side of closet) straight up to the valve is beyond me. But I guess doing it the hard way saved me from having to take down a bunch of thin cedar "planks" to access the pipes.

The pipes are around the left side of the closet opening, I've taken out 4 shelves.



I had to buy a clamp crimper. The "pro" models cost well over $200, the one handed ones over $400. I paid $50 for this one on Amazon, I figure it is less than the price to have a plumber even show up let alone do any work and it only needs to work for 4 clamps (OK 5, I messed one up). Good thing I got the one handed model, I don't think I could have gotten a 2 handed one in position to do the deed.





I had my sister-in-law slowly open the shutoffs, water came from both hot and cold lines so the pressure balancing valve guts are bad. I called the place where we bought it today. The guy said he had one, $75. Ooookay.  BUT he said Kohler has limited lifetime warranty on some parts so I called them and  they are going to send me a replacement free. At least one good thing related to this project.

The Kohler guy said the pressure balancing parts can "freeze up" if they aren't used so we'll have to run some water through it every couple of weeks. By the time the crimper tool came, SIL was well past her 2 week isolation period, using the downstairs shower of course so no big rush to get this done. But we should be set up for the NEXT time we need it.


----------



## Bruce

"Stimulus" present to myself on the left, Xmas present from my in-laws on the right. The 18g brad nailer came as a "kit", for some reason it wasn't more expensive than the "tool only" on Amazon. It has a 2 AH battery and a nice big carry case. The impact driver is "tool only". I have two 1.2 AH batteries that came with my drill and already got myself a "stimulus" 5 AH battery. 


Would have been nice to have the brad nailer when I put the cedar in the closet. But now I have it for all the door, window and baseboard trim I need to make and put up.


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## thistlebloom

I think you just have the most fun Bruce! Who doesn't love a plumbing project?


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## Bruce

I know STA just LOVES him some plumbing problems


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## Baymule

What I know about plumbing..........make a phone call!


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## B&B Happy goats

Plumbing problems truly  suck 🤪....glad your a handy dude Bruce 😍


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> I know STA just LOVES him some plumbing problems


 Amen to that, Mr. @Bruce!

Boy, you have been busy!  Nothing like plumbing problems to make the holidays enjoyable!   At least you got some nice tools out of the effort.  As Tim Allen used to say on his TV show, "More power!"  Is that a 1/4" impact wrench you got?  If so, I have one just like it.

Where did you learn about working with PEX pipe?  I have never used it and would not have known how to install those shutoff valves.  I figure I better start learning now, because sooner or later I will have such plumbing issues to deal with!

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Yes it is the 1/4" brushless impact. Now I need to drive some screws (though I don't have any immediate projects for that).

PEX - the plumbers put it in when half the house was 95% rebuilt. I sold all the copper that was taken out to the metal recyclers. All of the "water use" places are in that half so the only copper left runs from the pressure tank in the basement of the original house to the point they started working. 

PEX is a lot easier than copper. When we rehabbed the prior house 30 years ago there was no such thing as PEX, I cut a LOT of copper pipe and sweated a LOT of fittings and shutoffs. Only had to redo one. 

With PEX you just cut the tube with tube or PVC cutters, snip. You can use "Shark Bite" or similar fittings, they just press in. I did that when I put in the 12 gallon 110V water heater in the crawl space under the kitchen between the on demand propane heater and the water using sources. BUT I've since heard they aren't "life time" and shouldn't ever be used inside a wall so I forked over for the ratcheting clamp tool, which I may or may not ever have another use for, for this project. Given the valves are in a closet, if they developed a slow leak after a time it would be quite a mess and not noticed for a long time. 

Installing PEX fittings is really easy, you can either use clamp rings (and tool) or crimp rings (and tool)
clamp vs crimp

My relatively inexpensive clamp tool doesn't have the ring cut off feature mentioned in the video. PEX, unlike copper and PVC, is flexible so it is easy to run the pipe. The plumbers used crimp rings and a very expensive (like over $700 expensive) battery tool that did the squeezing, no hand squeezing necessary. I'm sure it is easy for a working plumber to justify that cost given the number of fittings they install in a month let alone a year.



Baymule said:


> What I know about plumbing..........make a phone call!


And empty your wallet


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Thank you, Mr. @Bruce.  Whenever I have needed to work with plumbing, it has usually involved copper tubing.  I never was able to learn how to sweat copper connectors together - they always leaked.  Compression fittings usually worked but I had one compression fitting fail under the kitchen sink at night and flooded the kitchen and den area.  That was quite expensive!  So when I started working with the flexible tubing with the fittings already formed, such as connecting faucets to water shutoff valves, that was great!  But that left the work where the length was not standard.  It also left the work where items such as the water shutoff valves themselves needed replacing.  So thank you for showing this to me!


----------



## Bruce

Yep, I had to eventually replace all the quarter turn valves in the prior house. Sure was glad I'd put in shutoffs to every water using space when I first did the work. No need to shut off the entire house while making a repair.


----------



## Bruce

Since STA likes pictures ... my Harbor Freight "portable garage" sorta fail. It was leaning HEAVILY to leeward in big winds bending the posts where they met the top cross piece. I put in the lower bracing to keep it from leaning. The pipe is very thin walled and bent and cracked in the wind at the top of the short braces, pipes going into several upper fittings also cracked. So I had to add the long braces that go to where the cross pieces meet the posts. The posts were already screwed into the 2x12 so I didn't have to add anything to attach the lower part of the wood bracing. The tractor just fits between the brace pieces.








And no, you can not get replacement parts for the "garage" 

Hmmm, I just noticed when looking at the first picture that the post isn't even connected to the top cross piece any more. Another repair task I guess


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## Bruce

> Baymule said:
> So you had to buy electricity? Horrors! Put up a wind turbine!


Actually, I had considered a wind turbine to go with solar 5 years ago but the solar guy said he stopped installing home wind turbines. Not reliable enough and require a fair bit of annual maintenance - up at the generator on top of the 100'+ pole of course. So I went with 24 panels on 2 towers instead of half solar, half wind.

So how about



Another array of 12 panels in front of the original 24 on towers? The new panels are higher watt so a 50% increase in panels has added 60% or more extra electricity. Now if we only had some ☀️ !!!

I talked to the guys that installed the new array, apparently residential wind turbines haven't improved. I guess more R&D is being put into solar. BUT if residential wind turbines get more reliable I'm open to the possibility.

Moved from @chickens really thread.


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## thistlebloom

Deja vu! 

Having had a HF carport I can understand the frustration. Fortunately we didn't have an issue with wind, probably because we are sheltered with a thick belt of pines that moderates it. They are a temporary fix in any case, the tarp material on the roof degrades and wears from rubbing over the supports. 
I still have the front and back panels that I salvaged when we took it down. They are in good shape and handy for tarping.
Hopefully you can get a couple of years out of it.


----------



## Ridgetop

Bruce said:


> PEX is a lot easier than copper.



While Pex *is* easier and cheaper to install than copper or PVC  (no fittings needed for the bends) another reason plumbers started using it in stead is that is goes in really fast.  *BUT *be very careful with installing the drywall or hanging pictures since a stray nail or screw can puncture the flexible tubing. On our apartment we missed the stud when installed the drywall, and it punctured the new PVC piping in the kitchen. Luckily plumber was working on other stuff for us and fixed t right away. We discovered it when we turned the water back on and it started dripping down the outside wall. Ordinarily it might not have ben discovered unti t ruined the wall and went into the downstairs units.  That unit was over the garages so it showed up immediately! 

When we replaced our tub with a huge walk in shower in the Master BR our plumber used Pex.  We just have to be careful on the office wall when hanging stuff.  That unit was over the garages so it showed up immediately! 


Bruce said:


> Yep, I had to eventually replace all the quarter turn valves in the prior house. Sure was glad I'd put in shutoffs to every water using space when I first did the work. No need to shut off the entire house while making a repair.



You can never have too many shutoff valves IMHO.


----------



## farmerjan

When we put up the "shelter greenhouse" for the chickens here,  DS said that the wind would cause the material to rub and wear on the pipe supports.  Used the foam pipe insulation that you just slide over the pipes... it is like 3-4 ft lengths and is slit all the way down the side so it just fits around the pipe.... Stopped all the rubbing.  Very smart of him to think of it because I never would have.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Since STA likes pictures



Thank you, Mr. @Bruce!


----------



## Ridgetop

That is a great idea.  DS1 is putting that foam pipe insulation on the squeeze bars because the large rams bloody their noses on them.  I will remind him to do it while we are gone to Texas because I need to trim feet on everyone when I get back!  Otherwise . . .  Normal Ridgetop way usually goes like this:

Time to trim feet.  Take an hour to put up Anatolians and get all sheep sorted into small pens and chute.  Maybe 2 hours if they escape onto large field or grandchildren "help".  
As we run first ewe into squeeze I notice that foam insulation has not been applied.  
Me:           "Where is insulation?!"  
DS1:          "*&%#*!  Forgot to get it at Lowes"  
Me:            "*&%#*!  Do you want to go now?"  
DH, unable to hear what we are saying over screaming sheep:      "Are we doing these sheep or not?!  I have other things to do today!"
15 minutes while we explain things to Dad.  
Me:            "So do you want to go to Lowes now?"
DS1:           "No you need me here."  
Me, tentatively:         "We can send Dad?"  
DS1:           "He won't know what to get.  I have to go."
DH:             "Yes I will!  I can go.  What do you want?  Just tell me."
DS1 and I exchange glances in the sheep pen.  Sheep continue to scream in chute.  Then DS1 spends 15 minutes telling DH exactly what he needs and where to find it in the store.
DH:              "OK, just write all that down while I find my wallet because I couldn't hear anything you said over these *&%#*! sheep."     
DS1 and I exchange glances in the sheep pen again.  
Me:             "OK, Daddy can help me while *you* go to Lowes."  
DS1:            "He can't hear your directions."
DH, miraculously hearing this:       "Yes, I can!"
Me:              "I will shout loudly."
After an hour DS1 goes to Lowes where if he is lucky the foam insulation will be in stock.  If he is not lucky he will go to another Lowes.  
It's the Ridgetop Way.

DH is going to Costco to get a few things before we leave for Texas, mainly instant oatmeal for us to make in the motel on the way.  Usually we stay at Best Western which serves a hot breakfast but with the Covid stuff we may just get a paper bag with a stale muffin.  (Happened last spring when picking up sheep in northern California.)  On the way back DH will swing by Lowes and see if he can find the insulation.  He keeps asking DDIL2 if she wants all kids of fruits and vegetables.  She will be going back to San Diego next week after her doctor appt.  DS2 is goig back n Sunday.  No one will be here to eat all the vegetables and fruits.  I keep telling DH that, but he is determined to leave provisions for his children.      Such a good Daddy.  Sigh . . . .


----------



## Bruce

Ridgetop said:


> *BUT *be very careful with installing the drywall or hanging pictures since a stray nail or screw can puncture the flexible tubing.


You can put a nail through copper as well. HOPEFULLY any pipe in the wall is set back, in a 2x4 wall that would leave it 1.5" from the inside of the sheetrock. And HOPEFULLY people aren't hanging pictures with 2"+ nails. But yes, it can happen and there is no way to know IF the pipe is set back or protected with plates as it goes through the wall.


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## thistlebloom

You aren't supposed to hang pictures with 2" nails? 🤔


----------



## Ridgetop

Drywall can range from 1/4" to 3/4" in thickness.  DH always used 5/8" since it is stronger but most contractors have gone to the 1/2" size to save costs in new construction.  1/4" is mostly used to "skin" over badly damaged drywall instead of taking it all down, or to cover paneling or popcorn ceilings.  Often easier to cover popcorn with a 1/4" skin since the drywall underneath has often not been properly finished.   If the underlying drywall on popcorn ceilings isn't good once the popcorn is scraped off, then you might have to apply a skim coat of mud and sand it down  By applying the 1/4" drywall over the popcorn you cut down the work of refinishing the existing drywall ceiling.  

Off the subject, but depending on how the Pex is installed, if it is attached to a stud and you get too close, yes you can cause a tiny hole in the Pex tubing.  Even a small 1" brad can cause problems.  Best is to know where the Pex is in the wall.  It is normally only run through the upper half of the wall when there is a bathroom shower on the other side of that wall.


----------



## Bruce

Yes, always best to know where water and electricity are running in a wall. Unfortunately once covered over you can but guess based on where the fixtures are. If that little closet had been finished by the carpenters I would have NO idea the water didn't run straight up the shower wall from the crawl space. AND I have NO idea how the PEX gets from the north wall into the east wall upstairs. 

Likewise, the thermostat is on the hall on the outside of the closet, same wall plane as the valve for the upstairs tub. Does the wire to the furnace run straight down the wall into the crawl space then make a 90° to the furnace? NO!!! It comes into the wall then turns south. When it gets to the back of the closet it runs west along the back then, north in the closet side wall then drops down into the crawl space. Wouldn't it have been a LOT easier to just drill one 1/4" hole in the east wall sill plate?? There is nothing in the crawl space to hit there. 

I can't claim to understand the thought processes of professionals.


----------



## Bruce

More EXCITING pictures for STA. These are related to the repair of the winch control harness for the garden tractor snow blower.

Step 1, disconnect the battery cables
Step 2, disconnect the wires from the winch, note how nicely this wire connects to the top of the winch.




The other wire is underneath .... and unreachable with the blower on and grounded. So I had to remove the blower 

Blower pulled away enough to get to the other terminal. 



Note the clamp that holds the wire loom. There are 3 bolts on each side holding the winch/blower bracket to the GT frame. Two are carriage bolts so no wrench needed on the inside. Of COURSE this bolt is the exception.  And of course the wire loom for the limit switch on the other side is on the matching bolt.  

Fortunately DW's uncle gave me a box of tools many years ago when he and his wife moved to a retirement community. Without this wrench it would not be possible to get to the inside of the bolt, no room for a socket and it isn't a flat entry.Thanks Uncle Charles! 


I found 2 nylock nuts the right size and after removing the clamp and retightening the nuts on the bolt I could replace the clamp without having to ever screw with that bolt again. Not that there SHOULD be a reason to do so but stuff happens. If it didn't I wouldn't be replacing the wiring harness would I?

This is the part of the old harness that got fried (the copper if you biggify the picture) when it touched the battery positive terminal. Apparently there SHOULD be a cap on it like the other side but it wasn't there to protect the contacts. Of note, there is no "right way" to stuff all the wiring harness pieces in the battery compartment. It would be nice if they had designed it to neatly attach to something. The thing on the left is a 30A fuse holder, I had to pull the fuse to get the winch to stop running wild after the copper parts fried. What I took out was a "circuit breaker" fuse which I had finally found to replace the standard 30A fuse that came with the unit. Touchy sucker, it would routinely fry the fuse when the winch overloaded. I carried a number of spares any time I used the blower. HOPEFULLY they figured out that was a problem and it won't happen with this harness but if it does the breaker fuse will be the first replacement.   Second picture is the new harness, caps on both relays.
 

Limit switch connectors on the new harness. I had found these to be VERY hard to take apart and had replaced them with a single 4 wire connector (other side shown right of the standard connectors) so I had to cut these off. Thinking I could have one connector for the limit switch and the LED light bar I later added to the top of the blower I had previously purchased a water resistant 6 conductor connector.



Sadly, the connector is for 20 gauge wire (not that it said so in the description on Amazon) which is fine for the limit switch given it only needs to know it there is a complete circuit. The light bar needs at least a 16G plug. Dang! 

This is the "original" 4 conductor plug on the limit switch side. The plug came with wires attached. I did a GREAT job installing it, including soldering the wires, shrink tubing on each wire and around the entire bundle. 



So of course I had to cut all that off and install the new connector parts. I also made a dummy loop to plug into the tractor side for when the blower isn't on. Not that the winch is real useful with the APPROPRIATELY short length of cable on the new winch as opposed to the ridiculous 50' on the original. The winch REALLY only needs to pull about 6" to lift the blower to full height and the old cable kept overriding itself and getting stuck.  But at least it will keep dirt out of the tractor side connector. And if I want to I can put a longer cable on the winch for summer use if I have  need.


----------



## Bruce

Continued:
This is how I kept my feet from totally freezing


I had a 50% chance of having the winch wires on the proper terminals. Given my luck, I got it backwards but of course I couldn't test this until the blower was on 

So I thought "Hey why not just reverse the wires from the switch into the wiring harness?  Once I did that the blower lifted as expected when I rocked the switch forward and down when I rocked it back, opposite the design.

Genius!! 

Um, no. It also reversed the limit switch action and once the conductors were put in the plug they don't like to come out. So, the blower got stuck in the UP position against the DOWN limit switch. So of course I couldn't lower the blower because it was stopped by the limit switch. I had to reverse the wires from the switch to the harness again and the wires on the winch. I REALLY didn't want to have to take the blower off again because putting it back on isn't easy by one's self. BUT with the blower locked "up", I could get a socket with extension underneath, though it was totally blind, by feel. 

Knock on wood all seems to be OK and the blower works. Guess I'll find out how long the next time we get snow.


----------



## Finnie

Oh wow! After all that, I hope you don’t have to fix it again!


----------



## Bruce

So far, so good. I've used it twice since the repair.


----------



## Bruce

OK so I'm gonna whine some, skip past if you care to 

Back in January I realized I hadn't gotten a car reg renewal, checked and yes it did lapse at the end of December.
Went online to pay the registration, system can't find my plate associated with a car. So I put my DL number in, it comes up only with the Leaf (didn't even know they associated vehicles to a DL).
Called, got a message saying everyone busy and it hung up on me. 
So I emailed. Two weeks later I get a reply asking for the VIN, I provided it.
Nothing for two weeks so I sent another email asking if anyone was looking at it.
Two weeks later I get a reply from another person asking for the VIN  I sent it, nothing came back.
Monday I called again, put in the queue. Wait five minutes or so and get asked if I wanted a call back or hold more.
I chose hold more and THEN it tells me the wait time is 128 minutes!!!!!! They couldn't have said that BEFORE I was asked if I wanted a call back??? Five more minutes and I get the question again, went for the call back. 
Some time later, less than 2 hours though, I get a call. After answering some questions Al determined that somehow when the registration on my car totalled 2 years ago was transferred to the car I bought to replace it 'someone' deleted it from the new car. I've had this plate since 1986.

Thus I've been driving an unregistered car for 2 years. Wouldn't that be fun if I got pulled over? So Al tells me he can't fix it, I have to mail in a new registration form and explain why I'm not paying tax on it. I was going to mail it yesterday but forgot. So today I figure I can make an appointment at the DMV down in Burlington tomorrow and do it in person. Again I go online to make an appointment, the first one available is March 18th. I put it in the mailbox and raised the flag. 

Sigh


----------



## Bruce

And while I'm ranting ... Covid vaccines:

Vermont started with first responders and nursing homes in January then went to 75 and older then to 70 and older. Last week they went to 65 and older. As some of you know, today is my birthday so I set up the account so I would have less to do online when I entered the 65 & older age group. Last Friday at the governor's press meeting they decided to open it to people 55 and older with "conditions" this past Monday and 16+ with conditions the following Monday. OK so now I'm behind a fairly large group including DW. She made her appointment on Monday for the afternoon of the 24th. That is GOOD! She's in more danger than I am. 

Yesterday at the press meeting they say they are going to move the 16 and older with conditions .... I start sweating ... to tomorrow, ie Thursday. Phew! That would have put me in contention with tens of thousands of people if they made it today.

So today I go online to make my appointment. It says I'm not eligible yet. It THINKS I am 65 but I am in the 55+ group. I change my profile to say my birthday was yesterday (which happened to be DD1's 28th Bday), no change. So I lie and say my birthday was last March. I'm now 66 but no change to my group. I call, I go through the 10 or so phone menu things I talk to the lady, explain the situation. She finds me an appointment on the 23rd ... but oops she can't update the group I'm in so the system won't let her give it to me  She notes that they know about this problem , something about the system updating on Mondays, well I wasn't 65 om Monday was I?and they will work on my particular "Account" but in the meantime I can call Walgreens and see if they have any appointments. I guess they aren't tied into the state system, they are part of some program direct with the govt. I call, lots more phone menus and it says go to their website. So I do. Guess what, you can't make an appointment unless you have an account. Great, so I create an account, go in, look for appointments, there aren't any.

Perhaps by now you can imagine I am in a very foul mood. If they don't get me fixed in the state system I'll be looking at a "Black Friday at 4 AM at Walmart" hell trying to get an appointment. But I got an email about 1:30 saying they fixed my group. Phew. I went in and made an appointment for my first shot .... this Friday!  

I am in a slightly better mood but still stressed by all the shenanigans. 

I sent my Dad flowers for my birthday, Bernie at Creative Floral Design in Fullerton, CA does a great job


----------



## rachels.haven

Dang, that sounds fun. I'm so sorry. Vehicles bring more fun into our lives than they should be allowed. Bring the government and bureaucracy into the equation and suddenly the opposite of a beautiful thing happens and we get more "fun" than should be allowed.

Edited: I'm glad you got an appointment finally! My husband's uncle (65-70ish) in Pepperell was taking care of his 98 year old mother until she died a few weeks ago. She was just about to get her vaccine. Our uncle and aunt are eligible, but can't get an appointment anywhere. So they don't get one. The aunt still works in the public school system, but no dice. 

Beautiful flowers though. x2 on a good job done by your florist.


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## Bruce

Different states do it in their own "best for us" way. But it isn't great when there are tons of people eligible at the same time, especially if there isn't a single portal. Lots of places people are calling here, calling there, calling somewhere else to hopefully find an appointment. Huge stress and a huge waste of a lot of people's' time.  I hope your aunt and uncle can find something.


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## thistlebloom

Happy Birthday Bruce! Pretty bouquet, and what a nice idea to send flowers to your dad on the day of your birth. 
My birthday was last week, dhs is Saturday, our anniversary is tomorrow, our son's is the 25 and about a bakers dozen of our friends are Marchies also. It seems to be a great month to have a baby in!


----------



## Baymule

What a load of incompetent crap. The state screws it up and you have to fix it. I’m sorry you have to put up with this. Hope you can get it straightened out without a migraine.

Happy birthday to you!


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## Mike CHS

Happy Birthday!


----------



## Bruce

Thanks folks.


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## Larsen Poultry Ranch

Happy birthday Bruce! I'm sorry you are having to deal with all that but it's great you were able to get an appointment. Hopefully the DMV issue will be able to get fixed easily since it was their fault.


----------



## farmerjan

Happy Birthday also.  Hope that you get the DMV thing straightened out.  I would have suggested sending the Title registered or certified mail........ no offense to your wife but the postal system STINKS anymore.  I refused to send mine through the mail when I got the car.... and waited nearly 2 months on  the appt, but as long as it was covered by my ins company they told me that all I had to do was have the e-mail with the appt printed out and that it would be accepted.... Yours was a little different but it was their screwup.... if you had gotten stopped, it would have been thrown out of court with the DMV guy admitting that it was THEIR screwup not yours .... hope you get it back fast but I am not going to hold my breath on anything "bureaucratic"  being done at anything faster than a snail's pace.


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## Bruce

If I was sending the title I would surely send it with DW to post it registered/certified. This is just a one page  application form to register the vehicle. Of course there is also a check in there. Hopefully no bad things will happen to it.


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## farmerjan

Good to know it was only an application thing.  A friend of DS sent a title in to do a transfer thing and in 3 months it has never turned up.... been a PITA for them.  That is why I refused to send mine and decided to just wait on the appt.  Everything is so screwed up anymore and DMV is ridiculous.  
There will never be a "back to normal" for many of these places I'm afraid.


----------



## CLSranch

My wife spent months trying to her dl renewed. They were all switching to the new real ID. After my designated driver goes 2months without a dl she got one online, still no Real ID but a valid DL and we have passports


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## Bruce

I have a passport and a passport card so I was thinking I could save money by getting a driver's privilege card like DW did last time she renewed but there wasn't an option. I guess because I already had a Real ID license. I guess her prior license wasn't Real ID.


----------



## Baymule

My husband got his DL renewed last January. It never showed up. Many emails later it was determined that they sent it to the wrong POBox number. 6 months later he got his real ID with a black and white picture.  LOL


----------



## Bruce

And no one at the PO noticed that the address was wrong? How long was it sitting in the wrong box? Why didn't the owner of that box give it back to the clerk? How big is this town you live in? DW would have caught that and put it in your box.


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> And no one at the PO noticed that the address was wrong? How long was it sitting in the wrong box? Why didn't the owner of that box give it back to the clerk? How big is this town you live in? DW would have caught that and put it in your box.


Population 6,011. Two numbers were transposed. I guess the overworked drivers license workers didn't look at the actual drivers license to check the address. LOL LOL


----------



## Bruce

Someone didn't deserve a "thank you gift" at holiday time!!!
Maybe it was because you are new in town and the PO clerk didn't recognize the name


----------



## Bruce

Got my driver's license last week. All washed out, almost black and white. Apparently they are all like that now even though it is the same picture as my prior license which was bright and in color. The check for the car registration was cashed 3 days ago so hopefully I'll get the paperwork soon. Also hopefully no cops will notice the expired registration when I do the 425 mile round trip to MA tomorrow.

Yet another night and day of 40+ MPH winds .... and 




It was still standing when I left at 9 AM but clearly in bad shape. I figured I'd take it down when I got from my morning appointment and shopping. The wind didn't wait. All but one of the vertical pipes is broken at some place, also a couple of the "rafter" pieces. Not sure if there is enough to rescue and maybe make something connected to the old deck piece behind the little barn (which you probably don't recall, looks like this):


I really don't want the backhoe out in the weather. For the moment I've got a couple of tarp pieces covering the hydraulic cylinders since they are all extended.


----------



## rachels.haven

Those winds were certainly rough. I'm glad you mostly made it through without damage. I amused myself during it by watching a gallon bell chicken waterer get blown across the yard over those two or so days. So low profile, so traveling on its own. Very heavy wind (we only lost a little door trim as far as I can tell).


----------



## Bruce

Copied from Mike's journal

Many tiny fish in the pond, I've seen no adults but there must be some or there wouldn't be babies.

I need to mow the boys' pasture, they like the new grass best so of course they ignore the taller stuff and the plants they don't like. Something wrong with having to mow a pasture that has animals on it! But the neighbors have 3 horses and 2 alpacas in a similar size area and they just mowed recently so I guess it isn't terribly unusual.

Some peas, radishes and lettuce are up, need to plant the 2 tomatoes and the basil since it shouldn't go below freezing until fall. I have 2 artichokes to plant, need to replace the 2 I managed to kill. Plus plant bean, cuke and squash seeds.

I've been working on a poor man's logging winch. I don't do enough to justify an expensive 3 point PTO version. I bought a 4,500 pound ATV winch with wireless remote and am attaching it to a steel plate that will sit on the pallet forks. The plate will be tethered back to the tractor frame so there won't be any stress on the loader. The winch only has 35' of cable so there will be multiple pulls and resets but that is still better than getting on and off the tractor for each pull and moving the tractor some distance forward then back while not running over the rope.

I also bought a skidding cone so the logs should not dig in and get stuck while coming out of the woods. You can probably just power them out with a 12,000 pound PTO winch.


----------



## Ridgetop

What WAS that yellow thing?  When it was actually more than crumpled metal?  Metal?


----------



## Bruce

It WAS a Harbor Freight "small garage" 10' by 17'. The metal pipe is too thin walled to stand up to our wind. 

The backhoe and rake fit in it nicely though DW was not fond of the noise it made when the wind blew. It was only about 30' from our bedroom.

Based on something she saw on her way to/from work I've moved the rake under the new solar panels. The backhoe won't fit but I can put the flail under in the next "bay"


----------



## Bruce

Ok, about that winch setup. Today I cleaned up the corrosion on the battery positive post, installed one oof those battery post pads and hooked up the winch to the battery to test things.

 No go, there is power to the "control module". There are 2 small red wires that are supposed to be connected into a wire somehow connected to the ignition switch. This makes sense of one is using the ATV winch on an ATV.

I'm only going to have it on the tractor when I'm "logging" and it will ONLY be connected to the battery when the tractor is parked in "winch mode" so I'm not concerned about it being wired into the ignition switch. I will be running the engine so the winch doesn't kill thi the battery. I wire nutted the red wires together. One goes to the rocker switch, the other to the wireless control box.

But I guess the control module NEEDS power from those wires. Does anyone know if I can just connect to the positive wire from the battery?? Or do I need to find a wire that is hot only when the ignition switch is on?


----------



## Mike CHS

I would be guessing so I won't offer an answer


----------



## farmerjan

Mechanics and hydraulics are not my thing either so I wouldn't even begin to guess.


----------



## Bruce

I called the number in the winch manual last night and was on hold for half an hour before I gave up for dinner. Then I called again and left a call back number with their automated system. They close at 8 so gave up expecting a call at that time. 

Called again this morning, left my number. Got a call 1 hour later and explained my situation. The guy had the manual, we both went to the wiring diagram on page 10. Right, I know it says to connect the red wires to a wire connected to the ignition but I want to know if I can just connect it to the battery positive.

He said he thought it would go on the negative which doesn't seem to make sense but okay. He said. "let me check something" and came back in a few minutes and said it would go to the positive.

Frankly I think I would have had as much confidence in one of you guessing! But I found a short piece of wire and speed nutted it to the 2 red wires then put the other end on the controller post that has the battery positive wire connected. Hauled the whole thing (weighing about 50 pounds) back to the tractor and placed it on the forks, connected the wires to the battery and et voila the winch works with both the wired rocker switch and the wireless one 😃

Now I need to go out and start cutting up the big downed tree that isn't too far from the field and see if my little project is successful.


----------



## Ridgetop

Hope you are successful.


----------



## Baymule

Isn’t “help” wonderful? Snicker, giggle.....


----------



## Ridgetop

Yay!!!


----------



## Bruce

She was just trying to help me eat my cereal. Hard to get spoon to mouth when your elbow is being bumped. 

Computer presumably fixed, picking it up today. Finally!!

Chicks hatching Monday so they should be here Tuesday or Wednesday. Time to get the MHP ready in the house,  clean the coop and set up the brooder area in it.

 Nuit is holding steady waiting for me to hatch her fake eggs.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

I have intended to tell you about this wench I saw on YouTube, but maybe you don't need it as you now have a wench for your tractor:


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## Ridgetop

STA:  You are back - we were worried about you!


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## Baymule

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Mr. @Bruce,
> 
> I have intended to tell you about this wench I saw on YouTube, but maybe you don't need it as you now have a wench for your tractor:


Where have you been? We have been so worried about you. It’s wonderful to hear from you!


----------



## Bruce

STA!!!! You have returned!!!!!!!! We were really worried Covid got you or something  SUPER GLAD you have come back 

I've watched videos of the Lewis winch, seems a good product but it needs a powerhead even bigger than the one on my Echo so it gets pretty pricey. Plus I don't think I'd want to be swapping the winch for the bar and chain while out logging. I did buy the cone, will consider the block. Not sure how one is supposed to keep the line/cable in the block prior to putting tension on it unless there is a helper to keep it stable. For now I can try my new set up with the blocks I've been using. I just have to release them from whatever tree they are attached to when the log gets to them. Not as convenient but one step at a time .... especially with my short 35' cable on the winch.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Thanks, everyone, for the well wishes.  We are both doing fine here in western Arkansas.  Back in mid-January I decided to take a break from the forum and have just now returned.  We'll see how long I stay this time.

I am glad you got something to work for your logging needs!  Now if only you can get something to work for your storage needs.


----------



## Bruce

Taking a break is fine, just let us know ahead of time! You don't want to cause us to worry 

You must have some activities to report from the past 5 months


----------



## Bruce

My 6 chicks shipped yesterday. Update from USPS at 4:50 last night said they were in transit to be delivered by 6 PM tonight. Not very surprised that they aren't here. I'll be up about 5 to see what the tracking says. If they are going through the local PO I can get them by 7 AM. The clerks don't mind sending cheeping chicks out before the window opens AT ALL. 

I've got their Mama Heating Pad set up in the room off the living room and Nuit is still doing well staying broody but with forced "personal time" twice a day. Once the chicks arrive I'll keep them in the house one night and at 0 dark 30 the next night will stuff them under Nuit in the community nest box. The next morning the little family will be moved down to the brooder area.

I cleaned out the coop on Sunday, still need to move all that stuff out of the alley and into the compost bins. It will be cooler after tomorrow.


----------



## Baymule

Baby chicks!


----------



## Bruce

They are here! Actually they have been here since 7:30


----------



## Finnie

Bruce said:


> They are here! Actually they have been here since 7:30
> 
> View attachment 85794


What kind did you get this time?


----------



## Baymule

Awww! New chicks!


----------



## Bruce

Finnie said:


> What kind did you get this time?


2 Black Australorps (these girls will be raised by one of the BAs from 2015)
1 Gold Laced Wyandotte
1 Silver Laced Wyandotte
2 Blue Ameraucana. The really light bird is one of them so she is likely a splash. Not sure if the other is a blue or a black. Weird chicken genetics with Blues.


----------



## Finnie

Bruce said:


> 2 Black Australorps (these girls will be raised by one of the BAs from 2015)
> 1 Gold Laced Wyandotte
> 1 Silver Laced Wyandotte
> 2 Blue Ameraucana. The really light bird is one of them so she is likely a splash. Not sure if the other is a blue or a black. Weird chicken genetics with Blues.


I thought I saw Black Australorp, but then, all black chicks look similar, huh? And I thought I saw a Sapphire Splash, until I noticed she had a beard. Splash Ameraucanas are beautiful. It will be interesting to see how she turns out. Wyandottes are always nice, too.

I went and bought 6 Blue Laced Red Wyandotte straight runs from a local breeder. The photos of their parent stock looked awesome. Unfortunately, it’s looking like I got all 6 cockerels.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> 2 Black Australorps (these girls will be raised by one of the BAs from 2015)
> 1 Gold Laced Wyandotte
> 1 Silver Laced Wyandotte
> 2 Blue Ameraucana. The really light bird is one of them so she is likely a splash. Not sure if the other is a blue or a black. Weird chicken genetics with Blues.


I'm guessing splash and a black by the looks. I love blue genetics, its the same for ducks blue, black and splash.


----------



## Bruce

I've been picking the chicks up and talking to them. Won't be happening much after they go under Nuit tonight. Prior experience says hen raised chicks are more flighty.

AND I noted that the dark Ameraucana has 5 toes per foot. I'll be talking to Meyer about that. When you pay big money for a REAL Ameraucana, it shouldn't have "breed faults".


----------



## farmerjan

Sounds like there is something like Salmon Faverolle or Dorking in them?  I know there are a couple other breeds with 5 toes. but the accepted Ameraucana in the standard of perfection only is supposed to have 4 toes right?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I've been picking the chicks up and talking to them. Won't be happening much after they go under Nuit tonight. Prior experience says hen raised chicks are more flighty.
> 
> AND I noted that the dark Ameraucana has 5 toes per foot. I'll be talking to Meyer about that. When you pay big money for a REAL Ameraucana, it shouldn't have "breed faults".


I would tell them you want a refund for the two because you dont believe they are purebred. Then go order from Murray McMurray....Ameraucanas for $4.35 or less. Unless you specifically wanted the BBS then I would go with cackle hatchery....$19.95 or less and they have good stock overall.
​


----------



## Bruce

Chick phase 2 completed. Nuit didn’t seem upset by getting 3 chicks per side. Amazing how fast they grow, prior picture was 7:30 yesterday morning. This is them in their taxi going out to the barn at 9 tonight


----------



## Bruce

I looked up snatch blocks and found these at Harbor Freight





Regular $29.99 on sale for $19.99.

 They won't let the cable drop out without disconnecting the shackle from the "ears" but that will be easier than using the sailing blocks I have been using. With those I have to remove the pulley from  the tree it is attached to and let it run along the ground since the cable has to be threaded trough the pulley, no way to open the sides.

Plus, MAYBE there will be situations when I can connect the shackle to only one "ear" and remove the cable from the pulley manually without having to disconnect anything.

20,000 pound working load. Not a problem for a 4,500 pound winch. If I could put 20,000 pounds of pull on something it better want to move otherwise the 3,200 pound tractor would move to the object 

While I was there I topped up the battery in my car, they have a free Level 2 charging station


----------



## Baymule

That's a good mix of breeds and colors. Eye candy! 

I want Jubilee Orpingtons, just because they are so darn pretty. But until I build a real coop, walk in permanent coop, I am holding off. I must have fever........


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That's a good mix of breeds and colors. Eye candy!
> 
> I want Jubilee Orpingtons, just because they are so darn pretty. But until I build a real coop, walk in permanent coop, I am holding off. I must have fever........



The Jubilee's are gorgeous! I want jubilee, blue laced red wyndotte, isabel Orph. lavender marans, and EE for my eye candy/rainbow egg flock. They will get a permanent coop in the backyard so I can sit on the deck or in my back living room and look at them.


----------



## Bruce

The girls have moved with “mom” from their first night in the community nest box



to the brooder area on the coop.
I'll have to take a picture of that, seems I took a video with the phone instead of a picture.


----------



## misfitmorgan

She looks like a happy momma!


----------



## Larsen Poultry Ranch

Speckled Sussex are very pretty too, and the ones we got go decently broody and are great moms.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> I've been picking the chicks up and talking to them.


When I first read this, Mr. Bruce, I thought, "Dang!  Does your DW know you're picking up chicks?"  Aggie I/Q getting in the way.



Bruce said:


> Plus, MAYBE there will be situations when I can connect the shackle to only one "ear" and remove the cable from the pulley manually without having to disconnect anything.


I have snatch block pulleys like that.  I have never used them so I cannot testify how well they work.  But I would think by having only the bottom ear bound to a tree and the other ear free to pivot, you could pull and have the cable disconnect once it reached the block.


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> "Dang! Does your DW know you're picking up chicks?


Of course she does, she even encourages it   And the faster the better since she’s been the unfortunate PO clerk that has had to listen to a box of unhappy chicks for an entire day


----------



## farmerjan

Bruce said:


> Of course she does, she even encourages it   And the faster the better since she’s been the unfortunate PO clerk that has had to listen to a box of unhappy chicks for an entire day
> 
> View attachment 85933


ROFL


----------



## Bruce

Curiously these chicks were pretty chill. They were peeping away during the car ride (about 15 minutes) but it wasn't the distress peep. I have heard that one and man it would drive a person nuts listening to it all day.


----------



## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> The Jubilee's are gorgeous! I want jubilee, blue laced red wyndotte, isabel Orph. lavender marans, and EE for my eye candy/rainbow egg flock. They will get a permanent coop in the backyard so I can sit on the deck or in my back living room and look at them.


Isabel orps? I have to look those up. I had some gorgeous Blue Laced Red Wyandotte’s before we moved. Had a couple of the sports too, I thought they were even prettier. Big healthy chickens, they came from a breeder. I gave them away when we moved.


----------



## Bruce

Just came back from closing up the barn. On the way there I heard some rustling in the weeds next to it, saw a flash of white. Thought maybe one of the white rocks hadn't gone in the barn yet but clearly that was not the case. It is a very young skunk. Oh joy. Put out the Havahart with some chicken feed though I have no idea if it will care to eat that. I don't really need a skunk out in the chicken and alpaca area.


----------



## Mike CHS

Every time I used marshmallows, I got the skunk (twice)


----------



## Bruce

I don't have any marshmallows, guess I need to find something else.
I did catch something .... Cassie a 4 year old EE. I don't need to trap her, she is very food driven


----------



## Larsen Poultry Ranch

You might need to set the trap after the chickens have gone to bed so they don't keep eating your bait. Although the trap should smell chicken-y to the skunk now, so maybe that's a bonus?


----------



## rachels.haven

😱 You don't have marshmallows?! (JK, I'm out too. my kids always eat them all the day or two after I get them.)


----------



## Baymule

So you trap a live skunk, then what? Relocate and you get to wear skunk perfume? Or shoot from a distance?


----------



## Bruce

Not sure Bay.  I was hoping since it is young it might travel to the woods without spraying. DW saw it out in the backyard when she came home yesterday.

I did set the trap at night but since the skunk wasn't interested it was still available when the chickens came out through the alpaca door after their auto door opened.

Nuit took the girls out into the run for the first time today


----------



## Baymule

Skunks are cute and pretty with their black and white fur, but I wouldn’t want one hanging out in the yard or barn.


----------



## farmerjan

You will have a feed and egg eater next thing you know.  They carry rabies too....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

You can always paint a white stripe down one of your cats like Pepe Le Pew:


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Would I be considered old if I remember watching that episode  on TV?


----------



## Bruce

No older than the rest of us!!!
STA, it could work with Checkers, he's already black and white. Might be harder with Rascal, she's grey and Christofur would be pretty difficult, he's orange.
 There are at least FIVE of them!!!!!!
Yes I know, that are only 4 pictured.
They were in front of the big barn this evening, north end of the house. Saw one go into the drive bay and another go into the tractor area.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce if you get the skunk in the trap, cover it with a old blanket or open the trap door so it can go into a burlap bag or old pillow case...my dad did that many times and never had a skunk spray..and he moved lots of sk,unks while being a animal control officer in his later years, ( in the back seat of his car or truck)


----------



## farmerjan

I used to put them trap and all in the back of the pickup and move them.... move slow and easy.

If there are 5 then you have a family from last year that is grown up.  Sorry to say that they will become a major problem... and keep breeding....


----------



## Baymule

HomeOnTheRange said:


> Would I be considered old if I remember watching that episode  on TV?


Me too! But I'm not old, I just had my share of birthdays. My 5 year old granddaughter asked me once, "What's that on your FACE?" 
I replied, "That's a wrinkle, you get a birthday, you get a wrinkle."
Long silence, then she said, "I don't want anymore birthdays."


----------



## Baymule

What's the problem? Bruce likes cats. Now he has a family of Two Toned Striped Kitties With Fluid Overdrive!


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> If there are 5 then you have a family from last year that is grown up. Sorry to say that they will become a major problem... and keep breeding....


This must be a new family since they are all quite small. But yeah I'm really concerned we'll become a skunk breeding ground haven. 

The full striped one in the second picture above was out this morning when I went to do some stuff. It is pretty cute but that is kind of how most young animals are. I guess it instinctively knows that not much will mess with a skunk, it wasn't afraid of me being there at all. 

Speaking of doing stuff, my PLAN was to empty out the dump cart (which I've not used since last summer) in the little barn then move the small amount of cordwood in the barn to the porch. Following that I planned to fill it up with logging hardware and stage it out at the edge of the woods near the close downed tree for (hopefully soon) use in removing said tree in pieces with my fancy dancy poor man's logging winch. 

Got the wood moved and drove over to the big barn, noticed the right tire wasn't tight on the rim. I got out the air pump, put air in it, the other tire and the garden tractor tires. Yeah I probably should have checked the air pressure BEFORE moving the wood given how long it has been since I used the cart. By the time I finished all the other tires the "bad" one was going flat again. So I've got it off the rim (tire says tubeless, tube inside suggests otherwise) and now I need to go to TSC to get a new tire. The sidewalls have a fair bit of cracking even though the cart has never lived out in the sun. I might decide to get 2 tires since the other one is the same age.


----------



## Bruce

Well the trip to TSC was a bust. They had a tire but I would have to also buy a tube or a "tubeless" valve which may or may not fit the hole in my cart's rim. So I decided to just buy a tire on a rim, plug and play not fighting to get the tire on the rim. Brought the new tire home .... the axle on the cart is larger than the hole in the rim. I had ASSUMED there would be a single standard size. So I made an Ass not of you but of me. Now I have to take it back and get a tire and tube. The difference between that and a tire on a rim comes to about $25.


----------



## Bruce

Two positives today.

 Took the tire and rim back to TSC, got a tire and a 2 pack of tubeless tire valves. Assuming the pressure holds overnight the cart is fixed.

Took the bent pipes from the portable car shed thing to Harbor Freight and got credit for it. Turns out that against my usual habits I had purchased an extended warranty.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Yay!


----------



## Bruce

Tire on the cart is fine 

Planted 2 replacement artichoke plants. That means I've purchased 10 and got 5 in the ground. Pea plants died. Just not my year in the garden! Also planted a zucchini and a yellow summer squash.


----------



## Baymule

There are times that it is good to have a grocery store for back up!


----------



## Bruce

Yep and the Farmer's Market.


----------



## farmerjan

Glad the tire is good.   Yep, Farmers markets are great for fresh.....


----------



## Bruce

Today started much as every other day. Woke up, DD2's cat sitting in the window above my head looking out at the wildlife. I looked out and saw a rabbit by the wood storage area. We seem to have a lot this year. Last evening there was an adult and 3 ages of juveniles in the front yard. There was another little one out by the pond behind the barn. 

But Christofur wasn't looking at the rabbit I saw so I figured out which direction he was looking. At the birds? No. Another rabbit closer to the barn? No, didn't see another rabbit. Then I spotted something moving in the Havahart



So now I've seen the adult skunk I've not seen before. Haven't seen any juveniles for a couple of days. I doubt the little one I chased out of the chicken brooder and the lower part of the barn went back and told the rest they better find somewhere else to live. In any case my plans for the start of the day changed. I took an old sheet out and put it over the trap then went to start the tractor. While it warmed up I let the chickens out, fed them and the alpacas. Then I drove the tractor to the trap, loaded up the trapped skunk in the bucket and drove it as far into the woods as I can get the tractor. The skunk left the trap without incident. No guarantee it won't find it's way back. Time to make the skunk repellent and hope it works.


----------



## Bruce

I was closing up this evening. I have to slide both drive bay doors about 3' left in order to open the doors for the "tractor bay" to get the tractor out. Just as I was closing the left drive bay door I saw 2 dead juvenile skunks next to each other about 8' in on the left. Neither was the skunk I scooted out of the brooder the other day. No obvious damage so the only thing I can think of is they found some Ramik the rats moved up out of the lower part of the barn and stored somewhere up above in the drive bay or hay mow areas.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> I was closing up this evening. I have to slide both drive bay doors about 3' left in order to open the doors for the "tractor bay" to get the tractor out. Just as I was closing the left drive bay door I saw 2 dead juvenile skunks next to each other about 8' in on the left. Neither was the skunk I scooted out of the brooder the other day. No obvious damage so the only thing I can think of is they found some Ramik the rats moved up out of the lower part of the barn and stored somewhere up above in the drive bay or hay mow areas.


I don’t know to like that or not. I guess it does make it easier because now 2 are gone and won’t be after the eggs and chicks. I have nothing against skunks, but like you, I don’t want them around the barns or house!


----------



## Bruce

I know. I felt bad for the little ones. Still haven't seen the other 2 but I have to assume they met the same demise somewhere else. I wonder if the adult came out after the littles had died. Maybe if she (assuming) knew she didn't have little ones to care for back at the barn she might stay out in the woods.

Given I never saw the adult until it was in the trap I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back and I never know it.


----------



## Bruce

I kept finding Nuit and one or more babies on the wrong side of the separation chicken wire barrier at close up time. Plus I kept finding other hens on the "nursery" side. They either fly over or go around the barn and come in the north door. Then they go in the brooder area and eat all the chicks' starter feed. 

Today I made a cardboard "adult excluder" for the door to the brooder area in the coop so the chicks could get in to eat and drink but the adults can't. Didn't close the separation barrier so everyone could meander the barn alley at their leisure. 

Nuit took the girls out the south door, I wasn't sure she would this quickly. The girls are 2.5 weeks old. I guess they are going to die because the ambient temp has never been in the "required" range


----------



## Larsen Poultry Ranch

If they get cold they will run back to mom for a warm up cuddle. They will be fine.


----------



## Bruce

I know. I just keep looking at all the chicks I've raised after the first batch of 12 in 2012. They ALL went out to the barn at about 3 or 4 days old. NEVER did they have 95°F ambient, the house is usually 65°-70°. Heck they never had 80°F ambient other than maybe a hot day or two. I think it was 75° and a bit breezy when I took the picture. I've got pictures of 2-3 week old chicks running around in the barn in 50° weather.

Yet the "claim" is they NEED 95°F ambient for a week, dropping by 5° each week until they are fully feathered at about a month. What they NEED is a heat source like a hen or a Mama Heating Pad type setup that they can go to when they get cooled off.


----------



## Larsen Poultry Ranch

The heat numbers are for mass raising of broilers in giant chicken barns. Doesn't work well for small flock raisers. I don't measure the temperature, just watch how the chicks act. Change the height of the heat lamp until they act happy, or if I have a broody, she does all the work and teaches them to be proper chickens at the same time.


----------



## Bruce

I know but if you go to any hatchery website they will give you the 95° thing. So everyone believes that is what they MUST do for their 3 or 6 layer chicks. Same "information" all over the web.


----------



## Bruce

Drove to Bangor Maine today with DD2. Will go to Ragamuffin gluten free bakery in Veazie on the morning then meet DD1 down in Augusta. She’s coming down from Sackville,NB 13 hour drive if you don’t stop. She’s toting some of her friend’s stuff for her father to collect, they live near Portland. Friend and another will be going to graduate school in Newfoundland and the COVID rules when they had to go up said no driving across provencial boundaries, they had to fly  

DD2 will drive DD1 back to VT


----------



## Baymule

I raise chicks in a horse water tub, it works for me. I use a 100 watt light bulb, heat bulb is too much. Hard to find old fashioned light bulbs!


----------



## Bruce

Nuit decided to take the kids up on the roost tonight. About a week earlier than I expected, they were 3 weeks on Monday.
 

The barn swallows fledged a couple of days ago but are still spending their nights in the nest. Sorry it is a bit fuzzy, it was getting dark in the barn.


----------



## Alaskan

I love swallows


----------



## Bruce

The chicks will be 7 weeks on Monday. Nuit laid an egg today and dumped the chicks. At close up time they were all in the barn alley, she was up on the roost. Not the south one where she's been with the chicks but the one on the north side. That leaves the kids to the mercy of the other hens, some of which are not very nice to "intruders". And without Mama protection, the chicks are intruders. I coaxed them into the coop and they all eventually got up on the south roost. Had to grab Penelope and move her as she, true to form, was trying to keep the kids from getting up on the desired roost. I might have to make some sort of "blocker" with a chick hole to keep them from being harassed.


----------



## Bruce

Laddie the swamp monster


----------



## Baymule

@Ridgetop and her DH met me and BJ at the livestock auction in Emory, Tx to watch the sheep and goat auction. After that came the horses, to be followed by cattle. But after the horses, in walked a llama! She didn’t seem to be bothered by all the noise, walked around with a stately air and calmly left the ring.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

That is a great picture, Mr. @Bruce!


----------



## farmerjan

Curiosity, @Baymule  what did the llama bring?  They run from 2-800 here... most are in the 5-7 range.


----------



## Baymule

I think she went for $600.


----------



## Bruce

Poor man's logging winch. I don't do enough "logging" to justify a multi thousand dollar logging winch, far superior as they are.

The little box on the left is for the wireless controller. the hand held controller seems to be the only cheesy part but it works. Easy to pull the cable out while using it.
The winch - 4500 pound UTV from TSC. Only 35' of cable though but this model came with the remote, others didn't. Thus it takes several pulls to get a log out to the field. It would be nice to have a 200' cable 
Out front is the wired controller, if you put this on a UTV that wire goes back to the operators station.
Far right - control block. I swapped the short black and red battery cables for the longer yellow and blue winch to controller cables.
Not visible but the metal plate the winch is attached to is connected with low stretch rope back to the tractor frame. Thus no strain on the loader.
The plate is held down on the forks by "C" shaped metal brackets usually meant for sliding a 2x4 through to bar a door. Keeps the winch from lifting.
I got longer bolts for the battery clamps and added a washer and wingnut. The wires are only attached to the battery when the winch is going to be used. I ran the tractor while using the winch so as to not run the battery down.




Test pull on a small "log". The winch stopped pulling as soon as there was tension on it. I could pick this "log" up. What the heck, a 4,500 pound winch can't pull it??? Took me a bit to realize the clutch was in "neutral" instead of "retrieve". Worked fine after that .... SLOW but fine.




Brought in a larger "log". I have to guide the cable so it doesn't clog up one side. The yellow cone keeps the log from hanging up as it travels.




Small amount of wood pulled in today. The was "standing dead" only not the way most people think of it. 2 trees that had broken off some distance up the trunk, dropped into the ground a good 8-10". Couldn't pull them out sideways, had to cut the "trunk" to get the rest to drop. Yes they were also hung up in other trees.




The plan is to pull a bunch of wood to the edge of the field, remove the winch and carry the logs on the forks up to the the bucking and splitting station by the barn.


----------



## Baymule

I like the yellow cone idea. Your logs are coneheads.


----------



## farmerjan

Looks like it works pretty good for you.  I also like the ingenious yellow "cone" to keep them from hanging up.  Could you not lift the logs up to drag out with the tractor?  Don't know how much room you are working with, might be too tight to maneuver.


----------



## Bruce

If I could get the tractor up to the trees I wouldn't need a winch. Those small bits were about 90' from the field up a hill you would need a skidder to scale. The big downed tree I'm actually aiming for is another 40' up the hill.


----------



## Ridgetop

At least yi realized the clutch was in neutral before calling for service!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Great job, Mr. @Bruce!


----------



## Bruce

Yep! I averted receiving yet another Zinger™ award!!


----------



## Finnie

Finnie said:


> I went and bought 6 Blue Laced Red Wyandotte straight runs from a local breeder. The photos of their parent stock looked awesome. Unfortunately, it’s looking like I got all 6 cockerels.


@Bruce , do you remember when we were talking about your cockerel Trouble over on the BYC sexing Easter Eggers thread, and I said he was very definite for all the cockerel signs? Well these BLRW are an example of when the pullets show mild signs of being cockerels. They went through the bare shoulders and no tail stage, and really had me worried for a long time. But tonight I was counting them, and at 12-15 weeks old, it looks like I have 2 boys and 4 girls!

It just goes to show that there aren’t always hard and fast rules. And I have also read in a lot of places that Wyandottes as a breed are hard to sex early anyway. I still hope none of my “pullets” does a 180 and turn out to be a boy after all.


----------



## Baymule

Finnie said:


> @Bruce , do you remember when we were talking about your cockerel Trouble over on the BYC sexing Easter Eggers thread, and I said he was very definite for all the cockerel signs? Well these BLRW are an example of when the pullets show mild signs of being cockerels. They went through the bare shoulders and no tail stage, and really had me worried for a long time. But tonight I was counting them, and at 12-15 weeks old, it looks like I have 2 boys and 4 girls!
> 
> It just goes to show that there aren’t always hard and fast rules. And I have also read in a lot of places that Wyandottes as a breed are hard to sex early anyway. I still hope none of my “pullets” does a 180 and turn out to be a boy after all.


Wyandottes are scruffy looking as youngsters. I bought chicks one time and was thinking I got stuck with mixed breed who knows what. LOL It's no wonder they are hard to tell gender until they get older.


----------



## Bruce

Finnie said:


> They went through the bare shoulders and no tail stage, and really had me worried for a long time. But tonight I was counting them, and at 12-15 weeks old, it looks like I have 2 boys and 4 girls!


Assuming they weren't sexed as all pullets, sounds like you did well! 

My SLW and GLW filled in, no longer behind the other 4. Their colored lines are getting wider. I don't know when they moult into their laced feathers.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir!

I saw the YouTube video below and immediately thought of you.  I have considered getting an all electric car or a hybrid car, but several things have held me back:

+ I hate to spend the money.  Since I am retired and don't have a big nest egg, I have to be careful with what I buy.  But owning my F350 diesel is not cheap.  For example, I just had to replace my 2 front tires after only 15,000 miles - $372.  And my wife hates the truck -- at least to drive, because it is so large.  So buying a hybrid or an all-electric car may pay for itself in only a few years.
+ The impracticality of driving an all-electric vehicle on long trips.  The round-trip distance to visit family in northeast Texas is around 360 miles, plus whatever driving we do there when visiting.  An all-electric car would need to be recharged prior to getting.  As far as I know, there are no recharging stations in northeast Texas.  I know it is a chicken-and-egg problem which will solved eventually, but for now an all-electric car is impractical for us.
+ I figured (mistakenly it turns out) that if I drove an all-electric car that I would not be helping the environment, as all I was doing was moving the pollution / carbon emission from the vehicle to the electric power station (assuming the power station ran on fossil fuels).

The last assumption proved to be wrong, at least according to the YouTube video below:






Back to my dilemma, though: has your experience with hybrid vehicles been good?  (I assume it has or you would not have bought several.)  How about your all-electric Nissan?  What is the longest trip have you taken in it?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> I just had to replace my 2 front tires after only 15,000 miles


  

DW drives the Leaf to work 5 days a week, 70 miles round trip. No problems in the year we have had it. We got the one with the bigger battery, something like 215 miles range per EPA. It is higher in the summer, noticeably lower in the winter. We've not attempted to take it on longer trips hoping to find charging stations on the way. They do exist but not between here and Maine via the most direct northern, back roads route for example.

NEVER had even one problem with the Priuses (Prii, whatever) that you wouldn't have with a normal ICE car like tires, brake pads and bearings. DW has nearly 250K on her 2006, averaged 45 MPG in the winter, 50+ in the summer. 

I wouldn't have replaced my 2004 in 2012 if it hadn't been hit and totalled. I had several full tanks in the summertime at 60 MPG, lots of 40-50 MPH roads for those tanks. 

I wouldn't have replaced the 2009 in 2019 if it hadn't been hit and totalled. 

I have 21K on the 2018 Prime, average is a whopping 140 MPG. It would be much higher if I didn't have trips to New Brunswick/PEI, and the twice yearly 425 mile round trips to the optometrist in Mass. Even pure gas (ie no initial 6.6 kWh precharge) I got close to 80 MPG between the rest area on I 91 in NH and home, mostly 50 MPH roads with slow downs and stops in small towns. In the summer I can get close to 40 miles on electric on non Interstate roads, about 20 MPG in the winter. Of course winter here isn't winter where you are  

The only thing I don't like about the Prime is it is fairly low, lower than the 2 previous generations. DW, with her RA, has a harder time getting into it and wouldn't have wanted one for herself. The Leaf is higher. 

Look into what incentives there may be in your state if any. There are many companies making plug in hybrids, here is a table of those and pure EVs.
Tax credit table

The Prime, with Toyota rebates, cost little more than a Camry hybrid and after the tax credit, cost less. There is a problem with the tax credit which the govt needs to fix if they want more people to move into vehicles that use less gas/diesel. The credit has to be used in the year you buy the vehicle. If it is eligible for a $2,500 credit and you don't have that high a tax burden that year, you lose the difference. If they made it like solar/wind credits you could claim credit in future years until you meet the max for that vehicle.


----------



## Baymule

Our daughter is on her second Chevrolet Volt. When they lived here, she worked in Tyler, 50 mile round trip daily. She spent $20-$40 a month on gas. Now her husband drives the Volt, she hauls kids in a mini van.


----------



## Bruce

Depending on his commute, he may not buy gas but every few months 

Unfortunately Chevy stopped making the Volt in 2019. Don't know why. They must have sold plenty of them since the tax credit for Chevy EVs no longer exists. It disappears when a company sells a certain number of plugins/EVs. Thus we didn't even look at the Bolt when we bought the Leaf, that lack of tax credit made it $7,500 more expensive. And we didn't look at the Teslas for the same reason (that and with a credit even the Model 3 would still be WAY more expensive). Of course if we hadn't sold the other house we wouldn't have gotten much of that $7,500. And if we hadn't sold the house, we wouldn't have been able to buy an EV so the credit wouldn't matter anyway


----------



## farmerjan

@Senile_Texas_Aggie why did you have to replace the tires on the truck at only 15,000 miles.... okay, I get that they were worn or something... but that is not acceptable... there must be something out of alignment... we regularly get  over 50,000 mile out of a set of tires on any of the 4wd trucks and they are all F-250's and 350's... and we work our trucks with the trailers and hauling and everything.  Most will go 60-80,000.  Yes we run our tires down too... because at over $200 a tire for the heavier 6 and 8 plys we run for the weight we haul....but you definitely have something going on that is not right.  
Honestly, I would think that you could easily get by with an F-250 for 99% of the jobs you do, and get a car to boot.... and I would not go new, I would find a good used one if possible.  You don't do the heavy farming that we do... you don't use and abuse a vehicle like we do.  
We had to take the one truck in to get the alignment done as it was "eating tires" and it cost like $150-250  for the truck alignment... has to be done at certain places that are able to handle the 4xd and linger wheel base.... but it dot it straightened out.  Maybe something you need to have them look at. 

Sorry @Bruce ... wasn't trying to hijack the thread.  Interesting about the hybrid vehicles....I am not against them... but I don't want the transfer of one type of emission to get transferred as STA said... and the unavailability of a charging station.... I think they are a good idea IF there is not just a trade off of the emission stuff... and there is a way to justify the increased cost of the vehicle... the rebates are great... but that is like someone paying you to drive their car or use their product... and is it a fair deal?   Obviously for you it has worked out... and for many it probably does... and I am concerned about all the waste after things like the solar panels get worn out... just like the windmill rotor blades and such....

I was just thinking today I was going to ask how your pond has done this year.  Since you finished that big project, your thread has been pretty quiet.... 
How has the snaking out of the trees been going with your winch set up?


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @farmerjan,

Thank you for your comments.  I have a couple of more questions for you, but rather than clutter up Mr. @Bruce's journal, I will take them to my journal.

Mr. @Bruce,

Thank you for your response.  It sounds like owning a hybrid or EV is quite economical once the initial purchase price is overcome, and it sounds like some of them are as cheap as gasoline powered cars.

But I like the questions Miss @farmerjan asked you about your pond and your winch.  Inquiring minds want to know! 

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

A full hybrid (ie, not plug in) uses only gas, the battery is mainly charged by regenerative braking. Having the battery and electric motor allows a smaller more fuel efficient gas engine. Barring coal probably, electricity generated in a big pollution controlled plant produces less pollution that most individual gas or diesel vehicles. And let us not forget all the pollution generated when drilling for oil, moving the oil, processing it into fuel, moving it again to regional stations and trucking it to the gas stations. Somehow those "costs" are never talked about. Electricity, once produced, moves pollution free. I think we all agree there is no free lunch 

The pond is holding firm, we've managed to get enough rain for it to not go dry, at least not yet. I'd say it is about half full. The alpacas go wading in it sometimes. Plenty of frogs and tiny fish. I assume there are larger fish since the tiny ones don't just fall out of the sky.

Haven't used the winch since the first time, other tasks get in the way. For instance, Al dropped off 3 cords of wood a week ago. I've got one run put in the porch and 1 1/3 in racks. But it keeps raining enough that I don't want to move any onto the porch (room for another cord) while it is wet. And by the time it dries out it is too hot to do anything! Supposed to have more reasonable temps starting Saturday so even if it rains overnight Friday as Mr NOAA expects, I can move some Sat afternoon. Hopefully I can get back out to the woods when it cools down. Nee to cut wood this fall for winter 2022-2023.

I mowed the fields yesterday and today. Takes over an hour per acre with all the rocks and trees I have to go around.


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> The last assumption proved to be wrong, at least according to the YouTube video below:


Good video STA. They ALMOST used DW's Leaf (same color), we have the 66 kWh battery for more range. Still far more environmentally friendly than any gas car given we generate more kWhs per year than we use so while we may not be using OUR clean electrons to power the car, someone is using them probably during peak times. 

And while it is small per car therefore not included in the video, how many thousands (tens? hundreds) of gallons of motor oil are replaced in ICE vehicles annually.

I notice from his map that in no state is a pure ICE car the better choice, even in dirty coal WV.

The paper today said our electric company is getting 2 electric trucks next year. A bucket truck and a stake body truck. The former has a range of 130 miles, the latter 200 miles.

A note regarding having a single vehicle and it being an EV. That can work if you rarely take daily trips beyond the range of the vehicle. In that case you can rent an ICE vehicle for the rare vacations or whatever. If, on the other hand, you often go long distances, a hybrid or plug in hybrid is a better bet. When it comes time to replace a vehicle do some research. When I got my 2004 Prius it was only 1 of 2 hybrid options, the other being the Honda Civic (which has an inferior hybrid system  ). Now there are many, many hybrid and plug in hybrid models from many manufacturers. The number of EV models is still relatively small but growing pretty quickly.

And ANOTHER note  I'm getting a 2 in receiver hitch for the Leaf, it can tow 1,500 pounds. I will be able to use it to pick up things like fencing at TSC, renting their trailer.


----------



## Bruce

I ordered a new set of Y blades for the flail and a set of hammer blades. They are meant for heavier cutting. I put the hammers on to mow the fields this week. I keep a strip mowed around the outside but leave the rest until mid August for the wildlife. Don't want to run over any fawns or bird nests. I managed to chip a few of the new blades on rocks of course.


 

The center piece of the Y blade SHOULD be straight, a number of them were bent like this one. NO idea how it could get bent the much (the guy at Woodmaxx didn't know either) but there is no way I can straighten them on my bench vice, the metal is too thick to just bend it.
 

We've seen a flock of 6 hens and 11 poults up the road at Al's place, he hays his fields. I told DW that we would see turkeys when I mowed our fields. Lo and behold, a flock of 7 toms this morning


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

More posts like these, Mr. @Bruce!  Please!


----------



## Baymule

What a treat to have turkeys in the field!


----------



## farmerjan

Didn't realize that you had very many up north.... they are great at eating bugs and stuff as they need the higher protein.... we have alot of them down here too....


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## Bruce

Turkeys were pushed to extinction in the 1800's due to habitat loss and hunting. They were reintroduced in 1969 and made a great comeback.


----------



## Bruce

Yesterday DW and I went to the retirement community where her parents and aunt live. Dad and aunt are in the full care facility, mother still living on her own. Beautiful day, 75°, sunny, light breeze. Sure was a change from last week with the 104°F heat advisories! We took dad and aunt out for a walk in wheelchairs. Had to convince the aunt, she was fussing about just staying in. Dad wanted to go out but with his Parkinson's it is a struggle for him to just move to and from the wheelchair.

Aunt was a WHOLE lot more perky once we got her out. A person can't just sit in their room all day. She said it was the first time she went out this year. At nearly 104, I'm not sure her memory is working well. I'll have to check with the other relatives, many who come visit with frequency. If they aren't pushing her to go out, they should be.


----------



## Baymule

What a nice day! I know that meant a lot to Dad and Aunt. Getting outside in the sunshine is good for people.


----------



## farmerjan

Baymule said:


> What a nice day! I know that meant a lot to Dad and Aunt. Getting outside in the sunshine is good for people.


Yes, that is great.  They do need to get out and into real Vit D giving sunshine,  and all.  God Bless her for her age.... one of my great aunts was 102... don't know of any in the family that were older than that off hand but many in their 90's.....


----------



## Bruce

Yep, DW's Dad's side is long lived. He is one of 5, the one to die youngest was the oldest son, died at 90. Oldest sister 4 years later at 96, next oldest brother at 97. FIL is 96 but I suspect the Parkinson's is going to shorten his life. I'm sure DW's aunt never expected to be the last surviving child. Of course who knows which of them will outlast the other.


----------



## farmerjan

Thinking that I will be around for a long time to drive my DS nuts!!!!!


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## Bruce

Good new/bad news story

Good news - DW drove DD1 in her car to Bangor to meet a roommate who lives in MA. DD1 and said roommate successfully make it to Sackville, NB in DD1's car some hours later. DD1 isn't fond of driving and 12 hours to Sackville is too much for her. Roommate doesn't have a driver's license.
Good news - DW and I didn't hit the two New Hampshire moose crossing the road in the dark on the way back in my Prius Prime.
Bad news - blew a sidewall on a tire with maybe 12K miles on it 10 miles from home around 11 PM
Good news - I've got a lifetime 22K mile 140 MPG average with the car.
Bad news - the battery that makes that possible takes up the space where the spare tire would be.
Good news - we have AAA, called, someone should be there by 12:30 AM
Good news - DD1's Virginia boyfriend is still at our house waiting for a new cell phone battery from Amazon, he came to get DW so she could get up at 5:15 to go work at the PO this morning
Bad news, 12:30, no truck. After 3 calls and 2 AM rolling around, no AAA. Apparently they can't find anyone awake/willing to get out of bed at 11PM let alone later. I guess 24x7 towing is only a marketing thing. Never did hear from them other than when I called.
Good news - 3 motorcycles passed by and turned around. Better news, they happen to know a guy who drives for AAA down in Burlington. He came out and brought the car and me home at 3:15. The bikers hung with me until he arrived.

I guess sometimes it IS who you know because AAA Dispatch didn't accomplish a thing and didn't find this driver who works 3 PM to 7 AM (what a shift!!!!!).

Had I known AAA wasn't actually coming I could have had DD1's BF bring any one of the 16 mounted snow tires from the barn when he came to get DW. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

So today I get to deal with the tire on 3 hours of sleep after a 14 hour drive yesterday followed by a 3 hour "sit and wait". Trying to find out if there is some warranty on the tire, Toyota service phone busy the last 1.5 hours.


----------



## Larsen Poultry Ranch

That is terrible!! I'm sorry they failed to provide good customer service, but that's fantastic the bikers were willing to stop and help and get you connected to someone who could give you a tow. 

Can you make a stink with the AAA customer service people (after some sleep) about the lack of service? Why are you paying for 24/7 service if they don't provide it?


----------



## rachels.haven




----------



## Alaskan

Larsen Poultry Ranch said:


> Can you make a stink with the AAA customer service people (after some sleep) about the lack of service? Why are you paying for 24/7 service if they don't provide it?


Uh..... yeah.     

And total #@!* on the tire.


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## farmerjan

10 miles from home... I would have told BF to bring tire and just got it changed and gone home..... Would have helped your sleep alot more.... not waiting around when he could be there in 20 minutes and the tire changed and you could have gotten  home  before AAA could have gotten there at 12:30.....and dealt with it in the morning.... oh well, live and learn.... glad you didn't hit the moose, that it wasn't horrible weather and the bikers were very considerate and helpful...
Hope you get some sleep tonight.


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## Bruce

I hadn't really thought about BF bringing a tire until he had already taken DW away. Given the people that were passing by on the 50 MPH 2 lane road, including a few semis, mostly didn't slow down or even move over a bit, it wouldn't be my first choice to be standing at the edge of the road changing a tire when AAA was SUPPOSED to be coming soon anyway. By 1 AM I didn't figure BF would still be awake to have him make a second trip out. Besides, AAA was "coming soon".




I have NO idea why it blew, we didn't hit anything. Can't get a replacement tire until Tuesday so I'll be driving DW's '06 until Tues afternoon.



Larsen Poultry Ranch said:


> Why are you paying for 24/7 service if they don't provide it?


That is what I asked the dispatcher on call #3. His answer is the towers were all worn out from being extra busy. But yeah, I might whine at them a bit. If the bikers hadn't come by and didn't know the tow guy I would have been there until 8 or 9 this morning.


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## Baymule

I didn't hit like because I didn't know whether to hit the Wow, Sad or Angry. Too bad I can't hit all 3! What a night! I hope it is never repeated, except for the not hitting the moose. It is always good NOT to hit large animals in the road. Glad you finally made it home and the tire will be taken care of. Lousy customer service on AAA.


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## farmerjan

I would do more than whine... I'd raise holy he// with them for the lack of service... no excuse for that.  Ypu pay for it you at least deserve them to keep you up dated since you had to call them 3 times....


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Holy cow, Mr. @Bruce! What an experience!  I am glad that someone was considerate and stopped to help.  It helps to be reminded, with all of the cruelty and hatred on display around the world, that there are still some people who can show kindness to others in need.  I hope that Toyota can get you a replacement tire soon, and that you can find out why AAA was not responsive.


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## rachels.haven

Bruce vs. Moose?
Wow, you were lucky. On the other hand AAA needs to up their game! At least tell you they aren't coming so you can do your best to take care of yourself (and cancel your subscription, lol).


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## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> It helps to be reminded, with all of the cruelty and hatred on display around the world, that there are still some people who can show kindness to others in need.


Yep. The older of the 2 guys even made mention of believing good deeds are returned in the future. He didn't use the phrase "pay it forward" but that is the philosophy.


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## Bruce

AAA kindly sent me a satisfaction survey link. You can bet it would have been even more negative if they had anything "worse" than "totally dissatisfied".


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## Baymule

Wasn't there a comment part at the end of the survey? Maybe you should sent them an email on their lousy service.


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## Bruce

Yes there was and I was very specific about the dispatcher's lack of finding anyone and lack of communicating with me.


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## Baymule

Good for you!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

I thought of you when I watched the YouTube video below:






I don't know if the winch is the same as the one that Mike Morgan has or a different one.  If you get one like that you can get out those logs that are deep in the woods without having to tear up your woods with the tractor.  And if you get one, then we here on BYH will call you Lumberjack Bruce and sing you this song:






Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Same brand at least. You can sing the song if you send me $4,500 to buy a skidding winch  But I'm not putting on women's clothes and hanging around in bars!!!!!

Had some visitors the other day. These are around the house and barn all the time.





These were just passing through though DW saw them the next morning as well. 23 birds all together.


----------



## Bruce

Old vanity, was here as part of a larger set when we bought the house. Not very useful with big drawers where everything got all jumbled together, DW got sick of it. I really like the 1940's American Standard sink but it was originally meant to be wall mounted with legs in the front. I couldn't find that hardware anywhere.

  

New vanity, 9 shallow drawers - much more useful. Now things that are used daily can be kept in the top drawer instead of on top of the vanity.



They said to silicone the backsplash to the wall. I stuck it down to the top instead. Given how heavy it is, even that wasn't necessary but I didn't want to get water and "crud" under it.


Of course having a bottom drawer created an issue. While the electricians put the wall lights at the center for a 48" cabinet, including a 1/2" overhang for the 49" top (which I did NOT realize), the plumbers didn't. Thus the wonky slot in the shelf. I wasn't surprised to find that the 1/8" back was MDF in an "all wood cabinet" but I was REALLY not happy to find out that the shelf is also MDF. I can't think of any reason I would want MDF in an area that might get wet. Really stupid. I put 3 coats of enamel paint on it.

  

And the drawer modification. I put 3 coats of enamel on the drawer bottom (which is plywood) as well and the pipe "box". I stuck the box down with silicone and 18 gauge brads (used the Xmas present ) I also coated the bottom and inside of the box with silicone since that is where any water leak from the drain will end up. Hopefully that won't happen but then how often DOES it happen even when it shouldn't? Better safe than sorry.


----------



## Alaskan

That will be so much easier to clean!

Very nice!


----------



## Bruce

Except getting the cat fur out of the sink. It was an easy swipe up and out with the old sink. This one is undermount so anything you swipe up gets stuck on the underside of the countertop overhang.

Of course this wouldn't be a problem if DD1's cat didn't require getting brushed on THAT countertop!


----------



## Larsen Poultry Ranch

Can you put something over the sink to prevent the cat fur from going into the sink when the cat is brushed? Thinking like a large cutting board or a piece of plywood? Would give the cat something additional to stand on as well.


----------



## Bruce

I suppose we could, not a bad idea. It wasn't a problem with the old sink. Now to find his brush, it has gone missing.


----------



## Finnie

You could even just put a towel over the sink.

I thought you were going to say the hair got in there because that’s where the cat likes to sleep! We had a cat once who loved to curl up inside the bathroom sink.


----------



## Bruce

That could be fun, especially if he steps on the booby trap 

He fell in the bathtub once when he was little. Didn't seem to care for that though he will occasionally roll around in the shower when the floor is dry.


----------



## Bruce

Been working on some firewood collection. My sister-in-law and I found this tree about 110' from the NW corner of the field while snowshoeing last winter. The still standing part is 20' high and 22" at the base.



 I have no idea what happened but the rest of the tree just splintered off. It is another 45ish feet to where the larger branches get small
 

I would not want to cut down a tree that big! It would for sure get hung up in other trees because that is how my logging always goes. But nature made it easy. Other than running out of gas in the Echo Timberwolf a few inches shy of dropping the standing part and having to finish with the little Stihl MS180, it was pretty easy.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Wow, Mr. @Bruce!  That looks like it will supply you with firewood all winter!

Are there many people in your area that burn wood for heat?  If there are, do you think that you could become a firewood provider for them?  Or are there many people who have woods on their properties that have dead standing trees that they would like taken down and would give you the wood?  I keep thinking about how you burn firewood and you are so good at it.  It seems a shame that you can't turn that into a profitable business.  Then you could buy the Wallenstein winch and put it to good and profitable use.


----------



## Bruce

Too much work!!!! I have never yet cut enough for one winter's need which is 4 cords. I did figure out last year that I really have no idea how much tree it takes to make a cord. While this tree is big I'm sure it isn't close to 4 cords. Maybe 1, 1.5? I've got my wood for this year, 2.5 cords of it came from Al down the road.


----------



## Mini Horses

It's a huge amount of work!   Even if another fells the trees for you.  Cutting, splitting, stacking...whoa!   I had a wood stove when I built.  Switched out to propane!! Oh, I have a central system beyond the propane stove but, use little.  Mostly I live in downstairs of my 2 story house.  So central heat and AC can be costly for double size space I need.  So I heat and cool only downstairs...shutting top off, unless I have visitors to use.

DD uses wood for days she's home, in her house.  I help her get wood and stack.  She has a splitter.  Still a lot of work.  She's mentioned a propane FP insert.


----------



## Bruce

Is your propane cheap? The people that bought our old house had been living in a rental with an oil hot air furnace and a propane insert. She said they hardly ever used the insert because it cost so much to run. 

I'm paying $2.85/gallon PREPAID for the season for propane for the one hot air furnace in the rebuilt part of the house, on demand water heater, dryer and cooktop. Well over $1K per year. The woodstove and oil hot air furnace heat the original part of the house.


----------



## Bruce

Apparently DW suggested on Sunday to DD2 that I she was a bit worried I might be overworking myself out in the woods. Monday I told DD2 I was going out - "OK". Tuesday I told DD2 I was going out - "OK". Yesterday I told DD2 I was going to get the last 2 big pieces out. One was still where it fell, the other was the lower part of the still standing tree that I had gotten 10' from the field before it got stuck on a big root. Amazingly she told me of DW's concern and asked if I wanted any help.

So here she is wearing her Lumberjack sash and pulley

STA - I guess you can sing "I'm a Lumberjack" now because she has no problem dressing up in women's clothes. She isn't prone to hanging out in bars though.

Here I've got the last big piece and some small stuff.

I've bribed her to help me in the morning after breakfast (the bribe) to get the rest of the "small" pieces. A grapple would be quite helpful with that.

Almost as amazing as DD2 actually offering to help is this flock of turkeys. DD2 spotted them as we pulled the last big piece (the bottom of the broken off upper part) out to the field. Clearly they are quite distressed at our noise and presence 100' away. I guess they know hunting season doesn't start until October?


----------



## Bruce

Continuing, backwards in time, when I went to start the tractor yesterday I got a lot of flickering dash lights and clicking under the hood. What the heck, it started bunches of times the day before! As any "don't know much about engines" guy would, I opened the hood and peered around. I figured out which solenoid might be clicking. I unscrewed it from the vertical part it is attached to and turned the key to "glow plug" position again and yes that is the one that was clicking. Thinking I really ought to disconnect the battery before messing  with electrical stuff (having no idea what I would be doing anyway) I removed the nut that holds down the big cable to the starter and the other 2 cables. I also loosened the clamp to the battery post (though thinking about it that really wasn't necessary). I pulled up the rubber tray that contains that whole metal part and ..... somehow this doesn't look real good!!!!!!



Went to Advance Auto with the 2 parts of my 1 part. The youthful person took me over to a wall and looked at all the things there, pulled something off. I told him I needed one with the post. OK, so he pulls that one off and it looks like a reasonable replacement. Then comes the sad part. We went to the computer register, yes I do have a phone number with them. I gave him that, he scanned the part. It was $8.80, I gave him a $20. Then apparently the computer didn't tell him how much change to give me so he had to pull out his phone  Don't they teach ANY basic math in school anymore??

In any case, I got back to the tractor with the part and REALLY FORTUNATELY (since I have no idea what I would do otherwise), the tractor was happy to start. Phew.


----------



## farmerjan

Unfortunately , no @Bruce they don't teach basic math skills anymore.....  I had a friend post a copy of the new math and I still cannot figure out how they came out with the answer to a simple 32-20=12.... it had things listed in a vertical manner and 4 columns for something that simple....seriously, it was worse than Greek to me.... I still do not understand what and how they came up with all those numbers to get 12 as the answer... I am really glad that I don't have kids in school....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Thanks so much, Mr. @Bruce, for the pictures and the stories...



Bruce said:


> I'm paying $2.85/gallon PREPAID for the season for propane for the one hot air furnace in the rebuilt part of the house, on demand water heater, dryer and cooktop. Well over $1K per year. The woodstove and oil hot air furnace heat the original part of the house.



Wow!  We paid $1.699/gal prepaid, and if we weren't careful, we could burn up the entire 500 gal tank -- or formerly could; I replaced both downstairs and upstairs A/C units earlier this year with electric heat pumps, so we won't have big propane bills any more -- just big electric bills! 

I am a bit surprised that heating with wood would be more costly than heating oil or propane.  I thought that heating with wood would be a cheaper alternative, and that the downside would be the continual monitoring and stoking the fire.



Bruce said:


> So here she is wearing her Lumberjack sash and pulley... STA - I guess you can sing "I'm a Lumberjack" now because she has no problem dressing up in women's clothes.



She's a lumberjack (lumberjill?)
And she's OK
She sleeps all night
And she works all day...



Bruce said:


> A grapple would be quite helpful with that.



My grapple is my most frequently used implement, more than anything else.

You showed some ingenuity in solving the "tractor won't start" problem.  I am glad it was not anything more serious.

Now I would like to offer a piece of advice.  I do this not in a condemning way but because I don't want you (or anyone else) to get injured.  Whenever you work on a tractor (or car or truck) starter motor or a battery, always disconnect the ground cable on the battery first, perform your work, then hook up the ground cable last.  The reason to take this precaution is that should you fail to disconnect the ground cable is that if you had something that would conduct electricity, such as a wrench or screwdriver, and that wrench was contacting the starter cable nut or the positive battery post and then contacted any of the chassis of the tractor, creating a short, you could get a nasty spark.  Depending on the tool that created the short, it could get incredibly hot.  Here is a video that explains it, starting around 3:00 minute mark.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> I am a bit surprised that heating with wood would be more costly than heating oil or propane. I thought that heating with wood would be a cheaper alternative, and that the downside would be the continual monitoring and stoking the fire.


Everything depends on the price of each fuel in one's area. Fuel oil here generally goes for around $2.50/gallon and up. IF you happen to live where there is a natural gas pipeline that tends to be far cheaper per BTU than propane. Firewood depends somewhat on how far they have to haul it. Al was up to $225/cord this year. I don't even know how to value "cut your own". Clearly my time is worth nothing since I'm not going to go do something for money for those hours I spend cutting/splitting/stacking wood. Had to buy the saw of course, gas and oil for it aren't all that expensive nor is diesel for the tractor.



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> always disconnect the ground cable on the battery first, perform your work, then hook up the ground cable last.


Hmmm. I figured positive first then cover with the red cap since if it isn't connected there is no power to anything. Guess I have that wrong since apparently with the negative disconnected there is no power to anything. Thanks  
Good thing I had it wrong though or I wouldn't have found the corroded connector.


----------



## Baymule

I love the pictures of the turkeys. How beautiful to have them on your place.


----------



## Bruce

I know they are around, been lucky to see them more this year than usual. Sometimes it is all about being in the right place at the right time.

These boys were out in the west field just after I mowed the field, taken from the kitchen window thus fuzzy through the screen.
 

And DW spotted the female/poult flock in the north field as she came one one afternoon. I ASSUME this is the same flock we see up the road in other fields. They mosied across the field, around (some flew over) the wetland into the NW field and off into the woods.


----------



## Bruce

Been working on that tree. Sister, DD2 and I cut and split the small stuff, it is the pile here




Sister and I cut up the big stuff yesterday, will split tomorrow
 

Today we went to Mount Washington. Oddly warm for October - over 60°F. And no wind!
Unfortunately I forgot to bring my real camera. We we below the clouds at the bottom and above them at the top.
 

This is the oldest building. Sadly closed for restoration, I have no idea what is inside
 

We took the Kancamagus Highway on the way back


----------



## farmerjan

Pretty pictures.  It is often the top is in fog... real nice for you to have a clear day... and warm....
 my DS went on the cog railroad with my dad (his Grandfather) about a month before we lost him... so that is real special for DS .... showed me pics on his phone... they had some clouds and fog but not real cold...

How much wood have you got done?  I see the ricks in the background.  Are you about full up for this winter?  Nice that your weather is not too cold so you don't have to start using it yet.
We have been fairly warm too and calling for nice temps for at least another week.  I'll take it.


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## Baymule

Bruce, I like the pictures of the wood pile, winter time warmth! Lots of work, but very satisfying work.

What beautiful scenery and interesting old building. Taking a day off to just go see the beauty of the world around you is food for the soul. Glad you had such a nice day.


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## Bruce

This year's wood is on the porch and in the racks. 3 of those 4 cords came from Al up the road for money. What I'm working on now is for next year. 

I'm glad your DS and Dad took the trip, I'm sure they enjoyed it. We thought about the cog railway but it is pricy, not that the road is real cheap. Turns out it is the oldest cog railway in the world! I would have guessed they would have had them in the Alps first. 

Considering how packed the 3 trains were when we saw them at the top I'm glad we didn't fork over. I know some people aren't overly concerned with Covid but we are. We would have missed our train time anyway because contrary to what I thought, the road and railway don't start at the same place, the railway runs up the other side of the mountain!! That would have been a lot of money down the drain.

We are going to the Vermont Institute of Natural Science in Quechee VT tomorrow. It is about a 2 hour drive, not near as much as what we did yesterday.


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## Alaskan

Baymule said:


> Lots of work, but very satisfying work.


Wood!  The fuel that warms you thrice!

Chopping, stacking and burning


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## Bruce

Not to mention moving it from the outside stack into the house so you can then put it in the stove later.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Nice work on the wood, Mr. Bruce.  And beautiful pictures!  Like Miss @Baymule said, it can be food for the soul.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. Bruce, sir!

I plum forgot to ask after it happened, but how were you and Miss @rachels.haven impacted by the nasty Nor'easter that hit last week?

Senile Texas Aggie


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## rachels.haven

no impact other than lots of wind. Seems like all around us there were lasting mass outages though.


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## Bruce

Nor'easter? What nor'easter? We are WAY to far north and west to even hear about it.

But thanks for your concern 

If we DO get one and the power goes out we are all set now though. Have had the Powerwalls for 2 weeks. Of course we would still need some sun.


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## Alaskan

Bruce said:


> Nor'easter? What nor'easter? We are WAY to far north and west to even hear about it.
> 
> But thanks for your concern
> 
> If we DO get one and the power goes out we are all set now though. Have had the Powerwalls for 2 weeks. Of course we would still need some sun.


If you are all prepped for bad stuff... it almost guarantees that the bad stuff will not happen!

Brilliant!


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## Bruce

That IS the way it usually works isn't it? Need to remember something? Write it on a note, guaranteed you don't need to look at the note. DON'T write it on a note and you won't even remember there was something you need to remember.


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## Bruce

20°F this morning, Mr NOAA said it would be 29°F overnight. I wonder how many hoses will split when it warms up, I still have one going out to the barn plus the one at the house  Guess I"ll be pulling those whether I got lucky or not as it is supposed to be as cold tonight. I plugged in the alpacas' bucket though it wasn't frozen in the barn. Moved the chickens' water bowl into the barn, plugged it in as well.


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## Alaskan

Huh... our hoses have never split... even when water froze inside...

You are clearly special.


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## Bruce

I sure am!!!
I've had hoses split. I've had sillcocks crack!
You should be equally special given where you live 


BTW, it doesn't look like any damage was done. Hoses all put away now.


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## Baymule

Nothing frozen here! Maybe February.


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## Bruce

It would be quite the weird world if you had frozen ground before we do!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

I saw where Long Island had a tornado.  Do you get any bad weather to speak of up your way?

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Depends on what one considers "bad weather"  

We've never had a hurricane though Tropical Storm Irene did a number on the narrow valleys in the state 10 years ago. She came right up the state, dumped a LOT of rain and lots of areas got flooded. We lost parts of roads, entire bridges, etc. I think we may have had a tornado or two but so small as to be pretty much non events. 

We DO get ice, that is bad weather whenever it happens. We had a BIG ice storm in '98, power out all over the place for days. We got lucky, it would come back on occasionally, enough to keep the house from getting too cold and the refrigerator cold. 

And we get snow. On 2/14/2007 we had well over 2' of snow in about 12 hours. Only time I've ever been stuck and that was < 1/4 mile from my house. It had taken nearly 3 hours to get that far. Our road hadn't been plowed since about noon and it was 7 PM when I got there. Once the frame of the car is up on the snow, there is no powering forward  I had picked up a neighbor out on the main road, he'd been waiting 2 hours for a tow truck, had given up and was walking home. He was super cold so when it was clear we couldn't get the car moving he walked home. DW and DD2 were shoveling the driveway, he sent them up the hill with their shovels. With the snow cleared in front of the wheels about 30' I was able to get moving and with gravity assist made it down to the house. Took another hour to shovel the road and driveway so I could get the car parked.

Have you been affected by tornadoes? I assume any hurricanes that hit TX would be down to tropical storms or depressions by the time they get to you so not too bad.


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## Bruce

I made it up to low 50's, warm enough for me to work on the latest "in the house" project out in the barn workshop. Not supposed to get much over freezing tomorrow or Sat so I fired up the stove for the winter.


----------



## Bruce

OK, in house project. Finally got around to trimming a window. Chose the hardest one, bathroom window. Took a lot of time, and a couple of remade pieces, the non rectangular ones of course. Bummer when the router skips.

The carpenter had put 3/4 OSB around the inside of the shower so grab bars could be put anywhere (not that I've installed any) and decided to run it all the way across the west wall. In hindsight I wish he had stopped at the edge of the shower, a slight return there would have made my finishing life much easier. The exterior walls are SIPs with 6" insulation and drywall on the inside. Thus both the door and window are recessed by not only the 3/4" OSB he added but also the drywall on top of it.


You might note that there wasn't a great attention to detail getting the cutout in the OSB or the drywall to fit tight to the window or door frame so first I had to clean up the foam insulation and cut the OSB and drywall so there would be a flush surface.

Then I padded out the gaps with appropriate sized pieces of pine. Of course the depth from drywall to the window isn't any more uniform than the side and top gaps.


Since the family decided on natural vs painted wood, all trim will be red birch. Thus I had to stain the window frame. Fruitwood on pine seems to be a decent match for red birch, haven't found any stain called "red birch". Sill and interior trim installed. The left side trim is wider at the top than it is at the bottom to match the wall.


Sides, top and apron installed


The trim was installed with my battery operated DeWalt 18 gauge brad nailer that I got for Christmas last year. WAY easier than pre-drilling hardwood and fastening it with finish nails as I did in the prior house 25 years ago! 

The door will be "interesting" since the strike is inset a fair bit from the wall face. I'll need some sort of metal plate with a curve on it so the latch doesn't bash then drag along the wood padding trim. And, of course, the hinges extend partly across the door frame on the other side. And you may have noticed that there isn't much space for trim between the door and the beam above it.


----------



## Alaskan

Bruce said:


> OK, in house project. Finally got around to trimming a window. Chose the hardest one, bathroom window. Took a lot of time, and a couple of remade pieces, the non rectangular ones of course. Bummer when the router skips.
> 
> The carpenter had put 3/4 OSB around the inside of the shower so grab bars could be put anywhere (not that I've installed any) and decided to run it all the way across the west wall. In hindsight I wish he had stopped at the edge of the shower, a slight return there would have made my finishing life much easier. The exterior walls are SIPs with 6" insulation and drywall on the inside. Thus both the door and window are recessed by not only the 3/4" OSB he added but also the drywall on top of it.
> View attachment 88239View attachment 88238
> 
> You might note that there wasn't a great attention to detail getting the cutout in the OSB or the drywall to fit tight to the window or door frame so first I had to clean up the foam insulation and cut the OSB and drywall so there would be a flush surface.
> 
> Then I padded out the gaps with appropriate sized pieces of pine. Of course the depth from drywall to the window isn't any more uniform than the side and top gaps.
> View attachment 88240
> 
> Since the family decided on natural vs painted wood, all trim will be red birch. Thus I had to stain the window frame. Fruitwood on pine seems to be a decent match for red birch, haven't found any stain called "red birch". Sill and interior trim installed. The left side trim is wider at the top than it is at the bottom to match the wall.
> View attachment 88241
> 
> Sides, top and apron installed
> View attachment 88242
> 
> The trim was installed with my battery operated DeWalt 18 gauge brad nailer that I got for Christmas last year. WAY easier than pre-drilling hardwood and fastening it with finish nails as I did in the prior house 25 years ago!
> 
> The door will be "interesting" since the strike is inset a fair bit from the wall face. I'll need some sort of metal plate with a curve on it so the latch doesn't bash then drag along the wood padding trim. And, of course, the hinges extend partly across the door frame on the other side. And you may have noticed that there isn't much space for trim between the door and the beam above it.


Very nice!!


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## Mike CHS

That can be a lot of work but the results are worth it.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Have you been affected by tornadoes? I assume any hurricanes that hit TX would be down to tropical storms or depressions by the time they get to you so not too bad.


 We have had little bad weather (i.e., storms) this year.  No tornadoes near us, no bad wind storms, and after early July, hardly any rain.  This is the driest I have seen in the 3+ years we have been here.

Regarding your carpentry work, it looks beautiful!  Where did you learn to do such work?  Did you learn from others, learn on your own (trial-and-error), or something else?  There are times when I wished I knew how to do those sorts of things.  I can do basic hammering and drilling, but to plan out a project like that, I shudder to think what it would look like! 

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Where did you learn to do such work? Did you learn from others, learn on your own (trial-and-error), or something else?


Yes! 
Lots of good stuff on YouTube though it didn't exist when I did the prior house. I have many books ... you know, those paper things with pictures and words  

Start small and work your way up. My step-father gave us a table saw for a wedding present. DW had a jigsaw, I bought a sliding compound miter saw. And then more hand and power tools as I needed them. I need a shop the size of Mike's for all my big stand tools, but don't have it. Kind of crowded in there. If I had his space I could get even MORE tools!!


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## Larsen Poultry Ranch

Hubby needs to do the windowsills in the front room and den. They have been unfinished drywall for over a month now. Maybe I can guilt him into doing it after showing him your work. It looks really nice and professional.


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## Bruce

Just don't tell him that the rebuilt part of the house was done in 2013 and I'm just now getting to putting in trim


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## Baymule

I am in admiration of your carpentry trim abilities. 

My son's house needs trim finished out. The last workman he had in there left his sliding compound miter saw. That was a year ago and he never answered son's phone calls. It's mine now. I reckon I'll learn how to use it and finish out the trim. But I bet next to your lovely trim work, mine will look like it was miter cut by a beaver on meth.


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## Bruce

Congratulations on your new saw Bay, you'll be fine! Get a new fine cut blade for it since you are doing trim. Use the existing old one for framing work. Remember, inside corners are coped, never mitered. If the baseboard is just rectangular board, it is easy, butt the pieces together in the corner. Outside corners are mitered. If you need to put in baseboard on a wall that is longer than the boards, cut the joint at 45°, easy to do with that new saw 

One of the reasons I chose the "craftsman" design is because it is easier than "picture framing" the window. There is rarely anything in a house that is perfectly square and the 45°(ish) angles on the corners of the frame are hard to get right without visible gaps, especially if you saw is off by even part of a degree. The wider the pieces, the harder it is. When people are going to paint they fill the gaps with filler or caulk then paint over it. They are still pretty obvious and of course you can't hide the gap at all when you urethane instead of paint. I've never seen filler that perfectly matches, even if you make it from sawdust created when you cut the wood. 

I also left it fairly plain, no detailing on the long parts since "too fancy" doesn't go well with 170 year old exposed beams and pine ceilings. Plus I don't have the hands to do all the sanding that was needed on the trim I made for the prior house. I didn't 45° there either, I made rosettes. Again way more sanding than my hands will do now, somehow it was easier 30 years ago.


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## Bruce

Got my first pullet egg from the 6 new girls today  A MASSIVE  34 gram brown egg. I am GUESSING Nina since she has the most red comb and wattles. She laid it in the box under the ladder in the feed room. 

Aurora also laid, she's been doing 1 or 2 a week even though she is moulting. Never had a hen do that before. AND her last 4 eggs have been on the floor of the coop. This from a girl that has been laying in the nest boxes for 2 years without a break. What the heck?


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## farmerjan

You can pick them up and check to see who is laying....


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## HomeOnTheRange

Incredible work @Bruce!!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

You have been posting regularly on other folks' journals (for which I am quite grateful), yet you haven't told us what you have been doing lately.

Have you worked in the woods any, getting out more firewood?  Every time I watch the YouTube channel "Sawing with Sandy", I think of you, not so much when he is running his saw mill, but more when he is in his woods cutting down trees, skidding them to the sawmill and either making lumber or cutting them up into firewood.  I don't know how cold it has been up your way, but I know you do burn wood for heat.  If I remember correctly, you use 4 or more cords of wood each winter.  Can you tell us about that?

Senile Texas Aggie

Latest "Sawing with Sandy" video where he is having to deal with a lot of blown down trees when a wind storm blew through a couple of weeks ago:


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## Bruce

Accessible blowdowns would be nice, less work! I've not been out in the woods since the fall when I hauled in the broken over tree. I added up to about 1.3 cords. That is for next year. I've used 3 racks of wood so far, just replaced the 3rd one on the porch landing this week. I filled the prior 2 with wood from the aforementioned tree. 

Haven't been doing much exciting to tell anyone about. Working on making door trim. The outside door in the bathroom is as "interesting" to work on as the window was. I've got the fill pieces made, somehow confused myself thinking some sap maple was red birch so I have to sand and stain those pieces before urethaning them. Then sand, urethane and install those and the trim pieces. Will have to do that urethaning in the basement as it is too cold outside.

I have enough made for 2 door frames both sides and will definitely do the insides of the bathroom doors first. And I made some plinth blocks and about 32 feet of baseboard. Really boring stuff, just flat boards except the part that goes over the top of the doors. Not sure which doors I will do next but at some point, maybe within a week, the bathroom will be done. I made door and window trim for the old house but never did get the baseboards. It had baseboard hot water heat so with furniture the lack of baseboards wasn't all that evident.

8 year old furnace in the rebuilt part of the house (north end) stopped working on the 13th. finally got someone out the next Monday, he said he would be back the next day. Haven't heard a thing, called this past Tuesday, still waiting. Fortunately the makeshift "down draft" furnace system is working surprisingly well. Wood stove and furnace in the south building. Heat goes up the stairs and into the north building then comes down the stairs in that building, floor fan blowing back into the south building. Even without a furnace the north building is holding 65°F. Probably doesn't hurt that it has been fairly warm. Supposed to be 40ish today then drop continually. Will likely be about 0°F Monday morning. Not rising much during the day then back to about 0°F Tuesday morning.

Trying to get a new front tire on the rim for the garden tractor. Not working like everyone shows on their YouTube videos. I've done it before!!! Very frustrating. Supposed to get 5" of snow tomorrow. If I can't get the tire on, snow removal will be with the bucket on the real tractor again. I started with the GT last time we had snow a couple of weeks ago, didn't realize the tire was flat. Once I figured that out I understood why I was having so much weird trouble driving the GT  It's never real easy with all the weight of the blower on the front even with weight on the back. But it shouldn't be THAT hard.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

Thanks so much for the update.  You have obviously been busy!  If you can, post pictures of what you have done and will do in trim work and other home improvements.

I hope you can get the furnace fixed before it becomes REALLY cold!  Brrr...  And I hope you can get the tire back on the garden tractor so you can use the snow blower.  Be sure to take pictures of that!

You mentioned trim around your doors and windows.  Are you making the trim boards from trees the way Sawing with Sandy does?  Are you starting with lumber, such as 1x2s and 1x4s and using tools such as a router to shape the boards into trim?  Whatever you are doing, please tell us about it!

Thanks again for the update.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Got the tire on the rim yesterday with copious amounts of liquid soap. Got air in it last night, seemed OK after a lot of cleaning where the air was leaking out. I think the soap keeps the rubber from sealing. No air pressure this morning so I brought it in the house to warm up, clean some more. Seems to be holding pressure and I did clear the snow. You can bet I spent plenty of time looking down at that tire for any sign of it going flat. I'll check if it still has pressure in the morning.

I buy rough lumber and change it into what I want. I have some left over from the old house though I'm running real shy on that. To save time I might buy boards planed to 3/4". Not sure if I will find it specifically cut to 2 1/4" for the verticals and 3" for the baseboards. If not I'll rip them. Or ... buy rough again, it will depend on the cost!


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## Baymule

You make your trim? My woodworking skills leave a lot to be desired. Good thing chickens and pigs don’t mind. LOL


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## Bruce

Yeah, that is how you get what you want in the wood you want. If we were painting it I'd just buy premade pine at the store (though I wont buy finger jointed wood). The trim at the prior house was a lot fancier. But I don't have the hands to sand all that anymore, plus fancy doesn't really go with exposed 8 to 170 year old exposed beams and debarked tree floor joists  You can see the level of (lack of) detail in the window pictures. Only the sill, apron and the piece over the top are other than flat boards. The doors will be similar.

This is what all the trim looked like at the other house. Door and window top corners were rosettes, TON of sanding on those!! This is cherry as was all of the downstairs to match the kitchen cabinets and sap maple floors (sap maple is a light wood). The stairs, upstairs trim and floor were red birch (heartwood of the yellow birch tree). That is what I am using at this house.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Thank you, Mr. Bruce!  I wish you would consider making some YouTube videos.  You don't have to do anything fancy like Sawing with Sandy or Red Tool House.  You could do something like what Miss @SA Farm does on her YouTube channel Seneca Acres Farm.  Nothing fancy, but still interesting.  I've watched all of her videos.  I hope she keeps it up.  I believe your content would be interesting as well, as I like to watch woodworking being done.  I know that *I* would watch it and learn a lot, and I think other folks here would, too.


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## Bruce

Sorry STA, no plans, no equipment.


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## Marie2020

Baymule said:


> You make your trim? My woodworking skills leave a lot to be desired. Good thing chickens and pigs don’t mind. LOL


Wow girl.  That's the first thing I've read that you can't do, YET!  .

Give her time and she'll get there


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## Baymule

Marie2020 said:


> Wow girl.  That's the first thing I've read that you can't do, YET!  .
> 
> Give her time and she'll get there


Since the trim around the floor/walls at the rent house is not finished, I'll get a good chance to learn how to cut angles to fit the trip. I suck at angles, but now I have a saw for that, since the workman left his behind. I'll hopefully figure it out and do at least a halfway decent job of it.


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## Bruce

There will be a lot of trial fitting. "Measure twice cut once" except where angles are concerned. RARELY will you find perfect 90° angles in a building so the first cut may not be exactly right. Make some small pieces to test the angle before cutting the finish pieces.

And remember - inside joints are never mitered. If using plain square edged boards you can just butt one to the wall and the other to the first. Which is first depends on the angle the joint will usually be seen from. If not using square edged boards you need to cope the joint. Google and YouTube are your friends here  I suggest using fairly plain baseboards 

The outside corners are mitered, again test with trial pieces so you don't end up with big ugly gaps.


----------



## Alaskan

Also...  wood putty...

Or... just plain wood glue...  

If the wood glue is too liquid,  take the sawdust, mix with the wood glue and stuff in gaps. 

Let it dry, sand and paint.

Think bondo... but for houses.

Sanded properly... then painted...  looks perfect.


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## Ridgetop

Beautiful work Bruce!   

Our old house built in 1920 had baseboards that were made from 3/4" flat boards rounded on top.  I really liked them.  They were easy to clean too.  I like your idea of ripping them yourself and sanding them down.  I also like the idea of the Craftsman style moldings to avoid cutting 45 degree angles.  You are right, there is no door or window in this house, built in 1953, that has a proper angle.  Of course, here in the Land of Tremblors (CA) the houses are constantly "settling".    Luckily DS1 will be moving to Texas with us.  I used to cut and install all the moldings myself but lately DS1 has developed a real gift for it, particularly crown molding which I never could figure out!

Sawdust mixed with glue won't take stain properly due to the glue.  If you are using a wood filler, get several shades both lighter and darker than the wood you are using.  Do a trial run with the wood filler and stain to see which matches better.  Even though the wood filler says "stainable" it never takes the stain the same as the wood you are using.  I have natural oak molding in my whole house, except the new laundry room, entry, and 5th bedroom we built on a couple years ago.  There I went with paintable moldings since I didn't want to bother with the work and expense of real wood.  I also changed out the natural oak moldings in the office when I laid the new floors.  Easier since we had built in some white cabinets in the old FA space in the office so the moldings match the cabinets.  When we sell this house, I can either paint out _all _the moldings or leave them natural in the main rooms and painted in some of the house.  The house has gone up so much in value that if I come down in price, it will only drop the amount the government is going to gouge us for.  If our son and DIL buy it, they won't care or DS2 can change out everything himself.  

You did beautiful work on those moldings.  We will never tell how long they took!  🤫


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## Bruce

If the gap is big enough to need filling, yes, buy filler or make some with fine sawdust and wood glue. Glue by itself doesn't sand very well  Even if you paint it, it is nice to star twith a smooth surface that doesn't change shape with temperature and humidity changes. 



Ridgetop said:


> Of course, here in the Land of Tremblors (CA) the houses are constantly "settling".


Sure does. I have no idea how many times my aunt and uncle have had to have their drywall joints fixed after bigger quakes. 



Ridgetop said:


> Even though the wood filler says "stainable" it never takes the stain the same as the wood you are using.


Yep. The only wood I am staining is the pine doors/frames. Fruitwood seems to do a fair color match to red birch. I will have to use a little filler between the frame extension and the vertical trim on the outside door in the bathroom, Just too hard to get a clean edge on the extensions to match the wall. I don't like it but I'll have to suck it up.

I buy wood I like the color and grain of with just semi gloss urethane on it. I'm partial to sap maple, red birch and cherry. Not overly fond of pine or oak. Of course there is a TON of pine in the rebuilt part of the house, the ceiling of the first floor is the subfloor of the second. And the ceiling of the second floor is the deck of the roof.


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## Baymule

The so called carpenter that DS hired to do trim did a half way job. In one bedroom, he did 3 walls, but not the 4th wall. In the other bedroom, he did 2 walls. There seems to be no pattern for what he did. The kicker, DS can't find more of the same trim.


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## Ridgetop

Here is a suggestion - Pull the trim off from the room with 3 walls and recut it to fit the bedroom with only 2 walls trimmed out.  Or vice versa, whichever way makes more sense with the trim you have.  When removing the trim, pull the remaining nails through the wood with a set of dykes from the wrong side instead of trying to pound them back through the front.  Easier and less splintering or marking on the trim.  

Then buy new molding for the other room making sure to get enough of the same stuff to do all 4 walls.  Don't bother doing the trim in your bedroom until we lay the floor.  Then the trim can be installed afterward.  If you want to wait until we get back there, I can cut and install the trim for you.  I will bring my electric brad nailer.


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## Ridgetop

Bruce your trim looks great.  Anyone that looks too closely and criticizes - don't invite them back!


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## Baymule

Ridgetop said:


> Here is a suggestion - Pull the trim off from the room with 3 walls and recut it to fit the bedroom with only 2 walls trimmed out.  Or vice versa, whichever way makes more sense with the trim you have.  When removing the trim, pull the remaining nails through the wood with a set of dykes from the wrong side instead of trying to pound them back through the front.  Easier and less splintering or marking on the trim.
> 
> Then buy new molding for the other room making sure to get enough of the same stuff to do all 4 walls.  Don't bother doing the trim in your bedroom until we lay the floor.  Then the trim can be installed afterward.  If you want to wait until we get back there, I can cut and install the trim for you.  I will bring my electric brad nailer.


I'm going down there this morning. Going to drag out that nasty carpet out of that bedroom. Gross! Bag up the padding for the trash. A friend wants the carpet to lay in the dirt in front of his shop. It seems to be the thing to do, use old carpet to lay over dirt. To me, that sounds stupid and results in yet even more mess to clean up. But if he wants the carpet, I don't have to haul it off. 

Got the truck and trailer loaded, will unload it. Put 3rd coat of paint on living room trim, window sills, and hang drapes. Going to bring back a trim piece ans see if I can match it. YES! Bring youur brad nailer!


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## Ridgetop

We used the old carpet in our house to lay down in strips on the very steep paths to the barn and lower field before we put in the steps.   Cut it in strips and lay it down upside down to provide grip on muddy paths.  Yes, you eventually have to haul it off, but on our heavy clay it helped for the first few years.  I also know people that used it for garden paths to keep from having to weed.

Will bring the brad nailer.  I have an 18 gauge electric one and both 18 and 16 gauge ones that work off the air compressor.  Do we need the air compressor?  It also handles the large construction nail gun.  

What are we going to do other than moldings and vinyl flooring?  Give me a list so I can plan what tools to bring.  I have a large selection of battery operated tools with extra batteries and chargers that will all come.  Do we need drywall tools?  Are we hanging closet doors?  Regular doors?  Installing electrical outlets, fans, switches?  Do you need cabinet knobs?  I have a lot (100) of new black round cabinet knobs that I can bring if you want them.  California is too far for me to "run home and get it".    However, wait to buy the flooring or additional molding for your room till we arrive if you buy it at Lowes or Home Depot since DH has a 10% military discount at both. 

Seeing the excellent quality of Bruce's work, we should detour through Vermont and bring him along too!


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## Bruce

Ridgetop said:


> Will bring the brad nailer. I have an 18 gauge electric one


I got one of those for XMas 2020. First use was putting the trim up on the bathroom window. Sure would have been nice if I had it 25 years ago when I did the trim on the other house. Every piece was pre-drilled for finish nails. Never a good idea to put those into hardwood, especially near the ends, without pre-drilling.


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## Baymule

Ridgetop said:


> We used the old carpet in our house to lay down in strips on the very steep paths to the barn and lower field before we put in the steps.   Cut it in strips and lay it down upside down to provide grip on muddy paths.  Yes, you eventually have to haul it off, but on our heavy clay it helped for the first few years.  I also know people that used it for garden paths to keep from having to weed.
> 
> Will bring the brad nailer.  I have an 18 gauge electric one and both 18 and 16 gauge ones that work off the air compressor.  Do we need the air compressor?  It also handles the large construction nail gun.
> 
> What are we going to do other than moldings and vinyl flooring?  Give me a list so I can plan what tools to bring.  I have a large selection of battery operated tools with extra batteries and chargers that will all come.  Do we need drywall tools?  Are we hanging closet doors?  Regular doors?  Installing electrical outlets, fans, switches?  Do you need cabinet knobs?  I have a lot (100) of new black round cabinet knobs that I can bring if you want them.  California is too far for me to "run home and get it".    However, wait to buy the flooring or additional molding for your room till we arrive if you buy it at Lowes or Home Depot since DH has a 10% military discount at both.
> 
> Seeing the excellent quality of Bruce's work, we should detour through Vermont and bring him along too!





The kitchen and bathroom were remodeled before DS bought the house. So, don't need knobs. I bought vinyl tiles today, hoping to get them put down this week, but have so much to do to that awful room first. Bring the brad nailer, we have trim work to do! 

Need to move the outlets in the kitchen. They are below the piece of granite trim. I'm painting 2 closet doors, they only need the missing screws to hang them. Need some switches and electrical plugs done. Won't need the big nail gun. I have a small pancake compressor, don't know if it would pull the brad nailer. 

Swing by and pick up @Bruce, we can use his trim talents!!!


----------



## Ridgetop

Start packing Bruce - bring your tools!


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## Ridgetop

Bruce said:


> I got one of those for XMas 2020. First use was putting the trim up on the bathroom window. Sure would have been nice if I had it 25 years ago when I did the trim on the other house. Every piece was pre-drilled for finish nails. Never a good idea to put those into hardwood, especially near the ends, without pre-drilling.


I hear you!  I installed all the oak molding and baseboards in this house with pre-drilled pilot holes and finish nails.  Exhausting!  Some years later we went to my mother's house in Washington, and I laid 2 bathroom floors for her and redid all the trim.  DH bought me the 18 gauge brad nailer for my birthday while we were there.  What a difference!  Have used it on all our renovations, for furniture repair, cabinets, paneling, etc.  The newer 16 gauge air compressor brad nailer was bought because we were doing so many apartments and I had to use such long extension cords.   The air compressor powered gun is faster when doing whole house jobs, but I still love my little Craftsman electric nailer, particularly for small jobs and repairs.


----------



## Bruce

Ridgetop said:


> Start packing Bruce - bring your tools!


Given how much I need to do in the house here I think DW would be displeased!


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## Ridgetop

She can come too - another pair of hands is always welcome.


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## Bruce

And who will cover the Post Office?


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## Ridgetop

Well, we have a ladder, I suppose we could sneak you out in the middle of the night.  Nothing like a bunch of oldies restaging an elopement to go work on house renovation!


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## Bruce

Internet has been really sucky today. The internal installation of the fiber optic line is supposed to go in Wednesday afternoon. I can't wait to have decent speed, reliable internet!

DW has to go in early tomorrow, as always on a day after a holiday. Planning to leave at 5:45!!!!!! Crazy


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce,

You haven't posted on your journal in a couple of weeks, so I am wondering how you are doing.

Are you prepared for the big storm that will be hitting your area (as well as mine) in the new few days?  I hope you have plenty of firewood ready and stacked near your door.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Doing fine. Yep plenty of wood on the porch. We are expecting 10" overnight. I started the garden "tractor" and the real tractor and let them run for a bit today. Assuming there are no issues with the GT, it and the blower on the front will be moving the snow. I'll have to get up early tomorrow so DW can get out to the road and go to work ... assuming the road is plowed or there have been some earlier high clearance vehicles on the road to pack the snow down. She wants to leave at 6:15.

DW's aunt died Tuesday morning. Always sad but given she was living independently until almost 103 (turned 104 in Nov) and never had a chronic "makes life miserable" problem, she had a good life. Never married and when most women were secretaries or teachers, she worked in the "man's world" as a chemist. 

Went yesterday to get 2 dressers, 2 bookcases and a nightstand from her room at the Assisted Living facility. Thankfully one of DW's cousin's DH generously drove up from 1.5 hours south with his truck to help bring the stuff to my house another 45 minutes north. The dressers are DD2's for when she moves out ..... whenever that is. The way things are going, DW and I will be in a retirement community and DD2 will still be here.


----------



## Baymule

Yes, it sure sounds like your wife’s aunt led a full and good life. At 104, she sounds extraordinary.


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## farmerjan

Condolences for your wife's aunt but she lived a good long life.  

Hope you all do all right  in the snow.  We are only getting rain and it has continued to warm up ... up to 53 now... snow should mostly all be gone tomorrow, but the rain has made it soggy on top with the ground frozen underneath.  Still better than a foot of snow....


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. Bruce,

Thanks for responding.  Sorry to hear about your aunt, but as you and everyone else has said, it sounds like she lived a good life.

I hope you got pictures of you plowing the driveway.  I also hope that your equipment didn't give you any grief this morning.  Nothing like going out to clear the driveway only to discover you have a dead battery, or a flat tire, or a frozen snow blower,

We got about an inch of snow on top of about an inch of sleet, similar to what Miss @Baymule got.  I plan to post pictures later today.

Hope you can post more soon.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Ridgetop

So sorry about DW's aunt.  It is those people that are greatly missed because of their tremendous experience and enjoyment of life.  

Don't worry about the dressers - eventually she will get them and yours too when you go into the home!


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## Bruce

The bigger "worry" is what the heck are we going to do when MIL moves out of the 2 bedroom retirement home house (actually part of an L shaped 4 plex)! FIL is already in the assisted living building with Parkinson's. MIL is 88, FIL is 96, both going to be a year older in the next 2 months. More beds, more dressers, many "knick knacks" including a LONG bridge FIL built out of toothpicks when he was a teen. And then there is the ENTIRE set of National Geographics from month one  We will make space for the Swiss clock, it is one of only 2 identical ones  made and I'm told the other is in a museum in Switzerland. 

I blew snow twice yesterday then shoveled the 2" where DWs would be parking her car. Still snowing lightly but is supposed to get sunny later so I'll blow again before DW gets home. 

The chickens are happy to hang in the barn, they don't like snow. And apparently we have a cottontail that thinks the hay stall is a great place to live. I've seen it in there twice. It can squeeze out beside the sliding door, I've seen it do that so it isn't trapped.


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## farmerjan

So how much snow did you finally end up with?  How cold did it get?   Kudos to the cottontail.... he's no dummy. Found a place to get some good "grazing" and warmer if he wants to snuggle inbetween the bales....


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## Ridgetop

Storage facilities are for all the extra stuff belonging to parents and children.  Once they stop asking about where it is you can start to get rid of it.  LOL

Donate the bridge out of toothpicks to a library or school as an exhibit.  It is almost 100 years old so certainly a "collectible" even if lacking a few years to the 100 year antique mark.


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## Baymule

You let your kids go shopping in your house to furnish their home/apartment, then you fill it back up with relatives things. My daughter went shopping in my kitchen when she moved out, taking some of my favorite things. I'm ok with that, happy that those items are being used and loved. Oldest Granddaughter says she is going to take my set of Pyrex mixing bowls. LOL LOL


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## Ridgetop

That is why I am trying to give some of my good stuff to the kids so they and their kids will enjoy it now.


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## Bruce

Hard to say how much snow with all the wind blowing it around. At least the 10" they predicted, maybe more. 

DD2 went shopping at Aunt Ruth's so some of the stuff on the porch will go with her if she ever leaves. That would include a twin bed, 2 dressers and a night table. I don't see anyone renting an apartment to someone who has seasonal jobs and only works maybe 9 months of the year.

DD1's BF's house in VA is 2 bedrooms. Apparently the front porch is as big as the house (~900 sq ft). He plans to screen it in. But there is only so much room and I THINK she said he has FIVE beds. I have no idea why. Don't know if they need any dressers. She has a couple of chairs here, a wingback that was my grandmothers and one she bought when we bought the couch in 2013. I didn't buy it because I don't find it comfortable but she really wanted it.

I already have furniture from my mother's side, including a settee, 4 chairs and an armchair that were made in the family factory in Baltimore. They exist only because the set was in the family's house when the Confederates burned the factory. And a large marble topped dresser that was her father's, circa 1870's. And the dining set. And some nice dressers that my Dad didn't need when he moved back to So. Cal. And a BIG armoire from the same move. 

Ran out of fuel oil yesterday, discovered it about 8 PM. I swear the tank gauge said about 1/4 last week!!! Went to the gas station and got 15 gallons of diesel (sadly the expensive on road stuff) to get it going again. Fuel delivery sometime today. Of course I'll have to pay the "emergency delivery" fee unless they just happen to already have planned to deliveries in the area today.


----------



## farmerjan

Are you on a "call in" for the diesel fuel when it gets down to a certain level?  I used to be at the other house but the furnace ran so much that I went to mostly using the couple of electric oil radiators and other "room size" heaters in the rooms I spent most time in.  When I moved here I went on automatic delivery with the propane because I had no idea how much I would use with the stove and LR gas fireplace heater... plus knowing I was going to be having the knees done, I didn't want to be bothered with having to be responsible for checking the gauge.  It costs no more to be on auto delivery than call in... and the call in says you have to call in before it gets down to 30% so they can schedule a delivery when the truck is in the area or then it is emergency delivery fees and all that.  What I want to do is put in a bigger tank and fill during the summer when the prices were NORMALLY cheaper.  I lease the tank for the propane.... but there is no charge if I use at least 100 gallons a year ... it is a 100 gallon tank.... Propane use has been less than  I expected, but won't have a problem with using at least 100 gal per year... don't know if the same rules apply for a bigger tank... going to look into it this year.  
Delivery yesterday was 40 gallons @ 2.99 gallon.  $121.99.  I do also use the small ceramic heater at the desk sometimes... and the oil filled radiators in both the bedroom and the back room... that one is set low to just keep the chill off... Electric runs about $200/month for everything.... I have 5 freezers, full, remember I put over 80 chickens in the freezer last year.... and a beef......regular electric lights and all,  as well as the hot water is electric... so I am not unhappy with it right now.  
I have been there with running out of diesel in the other house.... gone to get 15-20 gallons several times to get me through... YEP... expensive.  Diesel here at the local stations,  just went up to over $4.00 gallon.  Thankful I have the 500 gallon tank full for use in the tractors this coming year... it will help with the costs... but don't know how painful it will be to refill this summer....


----------



## Bruce

NORMALLY we don't use a lot of fuel oil, just enough to keep the basement from freezing so I call when I need oil which usually is not until spring. With the woodstove running 24x7 in the living room the furnace blower brings warm air down from the living & dining room (really one long space) into the furnace so it doesn't have to run much. 

However, I've got the basement thermostat set to 50° so I can urethane some wood. And with the propane furnace in the other half of the house broken, we are pulling warm air from the south building up the stairs in the south building to the upstairs of the north building. There is a floor fan between the kitchen (north building) and the dining room (south building) that pushes cold air from the 1st floor of the north back into the south. The heat comes down the stairs in the north building. This process works surprisingly well.

On road diesel last night was $4.099/gallon. Off road at the family market today was $3.64/gallon. Fuel oil, 227 gallons, was 3.549/gallon. If my 3 diesel jugs for the tractor been full last night instead of having only about 2 gallons, I could have saved nearly $7 on what I put in the furnace tank. I don't know if the fuel oil price is "standard" or if there is an "emergency delivery" add on to the price.

The propane tank, buried in the backyard, is owned by the company so I can't shop around for prices. It is on auto fill and as of spring 2020 I'm on the prepay program which keeps the price down.


----------



## Ridgetop

Bruce said:


> Ran out of fuel oil yesterday, discovered it about 8 PM. I swear the tank gauge said about 1/4 last week!!!


🥶🥶🥶🥶🥶

Hope you get warmed up soon!


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## Bruce

No problem. It was 64 in the dining room when we noticed. The display on the burner suggested it had been off 7 hours. Soon as I added the 15 gallons and bled the line at the pump the furnace restarted. DD2, lazy as she is, hadn't stoked the wood stove when she got home about 5:15. DW and I got home about an hour later. I didn't crank the stove because I didn't notice the temp right off. And at 7 we have Family Zoom with my So. Cal family, DD1 in Canada and DW's sister in Virginia. We do that on the couch near the woodstove so the cold wasn't really noticed until after that was over at 7:45.


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## farmerjan

Maybe you need to tell DD2 that if she doesn't pull a little more weight that  there will be some consequences... even as a kid when we had the wood stove in the house, our job as soon as we got home was to make sure the wood box was full... you NEVER went up the stairs without an armload of wood... Mom used to make sure it stayed pretty stoked... but we still checked... it was part of being a family... and we were in school.  When my parents got more incapacitated, mom's dementia and all, they had a pellet stove put in the house in NH and so there wasn't any wood to do.  My DS used to go up to see them at least 2-3 times a year and he and "gramps" used to cut wood and he stacked it on the porch for them.... a couple cord at least... they filled the front porch and then dad only had to bring an armload to the porch when he was out in the garage and such to refill....
But if you wanted to stay warm, you did your part.    You are too nice @Bruce, she would freeze here..... my DS used to help with wood when he was 8-10 years old and I had a wood stove in the one house.....

On road diesel here is  $4.04 to $4.14 at the local stations... and was $3.69 at the Southern States when I came down from taking the meters to the farm.  Off road was 3.39 at SS.....


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## Bruce

Can't disagree Jan. I guess neither of us wants to ride her. Not sure what to put out as a carrot or stick.


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## Ridgetop

Bruce said:


> Not sure what to put out as a carrot or stick.


Suitcase outside door?


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## Alaskan

Bruce said:


> Can't disagree Jan. I guess neither of us wants to ride her. Not sure what to put out as a carrot or stick.


A bit after eldest moved back home (yeah covid times.  )...  we were CLEARLY not on the same page...

I grabbed a notebook, and sat down with him, and made a list of things that **I** thought he should be doing (daily, weekly, etc.).

He explained how some stuff on my list he wasn't going to do... zero interest. 

So we discussed how to figure out a way that we could both be happy.

So he now pays rent in exchange for NOT having to clean his room or clean the kitchen.  (Both things I REALLY wanted him to do...  but I said if he gave me cash I could manage to not be bothered by his super messy room, and no kitchen help).

But he DOES have to clean up after himself, and if he cooks for himself he has to clean up after.

That sort of thing. 

We also covered how he was responsible for his car.  If he wanted me to wake him up for work, I needed notice... etc. Etc.

I tried to cover all things that bugged me, and all things that bugged him.

It has been working well.


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## Bruce

She's still talking about moving out. Now maybe with a girl (20, 21??) she works with at the ski resort. Still not sure how they would get a lease with a job that is going to end in a month or so. She's house/dog/chicken sitting for 2 weeks starting tomorrow.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Bruce, sir!

I have intended to ask you: it seems that you have had several winter storms come through your area.  Have you gotten much snow or ice with them?  Any videos of you clearing your driveway?

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

No videos, not at all exciting. We got a snowstorm some days back. Hit 50°F today and a lot of the snow is gone. Good thing DW and I went for a snowshoe trek yesterday afternoon. Her new shoes now cost only $140/use


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## Bruce

Well sad news to report. Celene, the Splash Ameraucana, died Monday last week, 9 months old, never saw an egg from her. No idea why she died.




Today I lost the last of my original flock. Persephone was an EE, would have been 10 in June and was still laying last year so she had a good long productive life.


----------



## Alaskan

Bruce said:


> Well sad news to report. Celene, the Splash Ameraucana, died Monday last week, 9 months old, never saw an egg from her. No idea why she died.
> 
> View attachment 90173
> 
> Today I lost the last of my original flock. Persephone was an EE, would have been 10 in June and was still laying last year so she had a good long productive life.
> View attachment 90172


Wow!  Not a good week.


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## Baymule

Awww..... that's too bad. It's hard to take a loss, no matter what the animal or the age. At almost 10, you aren't really surprised, but it sure hurts your heart. At 9 months old, you wonder why and was there something you missed. Sorry about your girls Bruce.


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## Bruce

Thanks Bay. Yeah Celene was a surprise, a very expensive surprise. Paid $25 for her and $25 for Nyx so I could get REAL blue eggs. Got my money back on Nyx given the NOT SOP 5 toes on a presumably true Ameraucana. I have recently found some fairly blue eggs recently though they seem a bit large for a pullet's first. Maybe Hera (nearly 3 Y/O EE) used up her brown dye? Her eggs last year were more blue than green.


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## Bruce

Gotta mention it somewhere. DD1's final grades are in, Cumulative GPA 4.09. Not bad for someone living with a 24 hour migraine.


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## Baymule

That is pretty darn fantastic. I know y'all are proud of her.


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## Bruce

Yep though I wouldn't expect any less from her (we'll not mention DD2 here  ). Scholastically she's always thought that anything less than an A was unacceptable. Pushes herself way hard. I hope she can wind down a bit now, all that self pressure can't make the migraine better.


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## Finnie

Congratulations on those grades! 👩‍🎓


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## Bruce

They will be here tomorrow late afternoon. Oh joy, I have to guess what to make for dinner that 5 people will eat, 1 picky, another picky, gluten free, nightshade intolerant and a vegetarian (won't eat anything animal that doesn't come from a live animal).


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## Baymule

You got your work cut out for you. Good luck with that and enjoy your company!


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## farmerjan

Every animal you eat is live to start with.....????
I get being intolerant to certain kinds of food that cause a reaction, problem, or illness... 
Guess I will never ask them to dinner...

 You eat what is on the table unless it will truly make you sick... picky eaters don't last here... that is why GF  and daughter have never been asked here to eat... I will not make something separate for the daughter because she thinks she is entitled to special treatment  and there have been no attempts made since she was a baby to HAVE to TRY things... I have always made a variety of things if someone is coming if I am not sure of their preferences... but this kid is totally ridiculous... pizza, only kraft mac & cheese in the box,  won't eat real homemade kind... bread ... strawberries...candy.... does  not eat any vegs and is getting a fat gut now from all the carbs and starches.... plus the total inadequate healthiness of the diet...And you wonder why I am glad that they can't have kids....


----------



## Alaskan

farmerjan said:


> Every animal you eat is live to start with.....????
> I get being intolerant to certain kinds of food that cause a reaction, problem, or illness...
> Guess I will never ask them to dinner...
> 
> You eat what is on the table unless it will truly make you sick... picky eaters don't last here... that is why GF  and daughter have never been asked here to eat... I will not make something separate for the daughter because she thinks she is entitled to special treatment  and there have been no attempts made since she was a baby to HAVE to TRY things... I have always made a variety of things if someone is coming if I am not sure of their preferences... but this kid is totally ridiculous... pizza, only kraft mac & cheese in the box,  won't eat real homemade kind... bread ... strawberries...candy.... does  not eat any vegs and is getting a fat gut now from all the carbs and starches.... plus the total inadequate healthiness of the diet...And you wonder why I am glad that they can't have kids....


Yeah, that would drive me nuts.


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## Bruce

This is what happens when your chicken decides the nest boxes are no good anymore





4 of them are not Aurora’s


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## Ridgetop

My kids are good eaters.  I was a picky eater and cannot count the numbers of hours i was made to stay at the table "until you finish your dinner".  Never did finish so also never did that to my kids.

On the other hand, any of my children who did not like something (they had to taste a small bite first) was not served it again.  With 6 of us at the table at least one or two others liked whatever it was.  Cries of "Can I have his/hers?" usually had the "finicky" one deciding that they might like it after all.  LOL

Luckily no food allergies.


----------



## Bruce

The girls seem to have gone back to the regular nests though I keep checking the hay bale nest just in case. 

Finally got the stupid pool cleaned up and ready for whenever DW might want to use it. Probably won't be for a month but gotta get it done early before the algae gets so bad you could walk on it. Took a good 8 hours over several days. 

Built another tree swallow house today. I've seen at least 6 flying around but have only 2 boxes. I've seen them visiting the one house we can see from our house. The other is at the NW corner of the fence so hidden from view from the house by the little barn. The new one will go behind the little barn so all three will be at least 100' from another box.

The barn swallows are back as of yesterday so I expect to see building/rehabbing their nest in the barn alley. Neither variety will be laying eggs until mid June or later. 

Heard the alpacas alerting while I was in the barn working on the bird house, went out to see what had them concerned. Turned out to be a tom and maybe 6 hens in the field. I thought they had finally gotten used to the turkeys and were ignoring them but maybe the fantail the tom was showing off to the ladies made them nervous.


----------



## Baymule

That sounds like some productive days!


----------



## Ridgetop

Does it get warm enough up there for a pool?


----------



## Bruce

82 today and 86 tomorrow (though it is early for that). Way back when I moved here in '79 it would hit 90 maybe once or twice a year, lately it has been much more often. Need a solar cover to make the pool usable by late May unless one is fairly sturdy.

And by "usable" I mean something warm enough DW can walk around in. Unless you are a young kid a 24' above ground pool is nothing more than an adult wading pool by my estimation.


----------



## Ridgetop

We had a huge Doughboy pool (18 x 36) for 20 years.  Our kids and their friends swam constantly until they hit Jr. Hi when they suddenly realized they could stand up only waist deep!  LOL  Learning to swim in it when small made them completely water safe though, and when they hit Jr. Hi they went to the public pool ad were on summer sim team, etc.  

When DH had to take off weight for his first knee operation he would walk around the pool for an hour clockwise and then counter clockwise.  Walking in the pool was easier on his knee and he lost weight.  It may be only 24' but you can still swim laps and cool off in the heat.


----------



## farmerjan

I know they are alot of work... but the sessions in the pool at PT were really helpful.. I got alot more flex and bending of the knees and I wish I had closeby use of a pool so I could do more exercising and help to take off weight and do more for exercising of the knees... One neighbor has a pool and I am thinking of asking if there was a way I could pay them something for pool use for the therapy/exercise part of it...No gravity on the joints but alot of resistance in the water.


----------



## Bruce

Ridgetop said:


> It may be only 24' but you can still swim laps and cool off in the heat.


I'm 6'2", a "lap" of the pool, straight across is like 4 strokes then turn and go back. And that assumes you don't push off the wall, in that case, 2 strokes. Can't get any sort of rhythm that way. No thanks!

And, even without air conditioning in the house, if it is 90 outside, the pool is 80+, the house is cooler.


----------



## Bruce

Related to Jan's exceptionally eventful trip ... DD1 and BF were going to come up Wednesday night for DW's aunts burial and service Saturday but got a stone on the windshield that cracked it bad. Only place they could find with that windshield AND an appointment was in Richmond on Thursday. Spent the day doing that, the "appointment" was "first come first served". 

Thursday night they start up, got into Maryland and all the brake warning lights on the dash came on. They went back to BF's parent's in Fairfax since Dad has a reader. Code said right rear speed sensor, figured that wasn't too bad, no ABS, just drive carefully. Apparently that also affects the regenerative braking (not sure why) but they left in the morning and got here about 10 PM Friday night. 

Fortunately the local mechanic in town we started going to after Bill retired last June had a cancellation Monday morning. They are really busy since 4 other mechanics retired last year! Charles said the speed sensor failure is usually a magnet in the bearing breaking off so the whole thing needs to be replaced. It was replaced under warranty in Canada in March, prior part installed a year earlier! DD1 will have to contact the Canadian mechanic to get the warranty coverage.

We dropped the car off Sunday night. Mid afternoon they called and said the left rear caliper was leaking and ... falling apart! Good thing the mechanic had the cancellation because they wouldn't have gotten far on the way back to VA before the brakes failed entirely!!!!


----------



## Bruce

And .... 
After the cemetery and church service with food after pretty much the entire extended family went to the summer place that has (mostly) been in DW's family for well over a century. 30 or more people. 

Tuesday I went outside about 1 PM after lunch and DW's car was here. This is not normal unless she had a medical appointment which she didn't. Felt like crap, sleeping in the bed. Tested yesterday morning and yep she has Covid. I was on my way to the PO to mail the estimated taxes, her text said "wear your mask". 

Not absolutely sure she got it from a non symptomatic person on Saturday but given she does nothing besides working and staying home I find it likely. O2 is staying up so hopefully the 4 vaccine shots will keep it from getting bad. But no meds for her RA until a week after symptoms and a negative test. NOT FUN for her as it also means she won't be able to take her Humira next Wednesday. She's supposed to get some Paxlovid today, waiting for the Hannaford pharmacy to call.


----------



## Baymule

Why does car trouble always seem to happen when away from home ?  I consider a 100 mile radius still close to home, if nothing else you can always get a wrecker to drag you home. Well, maybe not now since fuel costs are stupid high. At least they could rely on the BF's father for help, and once they got to your house, you had a mechanic for them to go to. 

I'm so sorry that your DW now has Covid. It doesn't play around. Finding something she will eat will be a challenge. For some strange reason, I only wanted orange juice and toaster waffles. Normally I wouldn't touch a toaster waffle. Yuck. Keep plenty of fluids, juice and whatever she wants. I know you will take good care of her. And she can't take her other medication? That's going to be rough.


----------



## Bruce

She's been interested in chicken based (no not ours though maybe Daisy the egg eater would like to volunteer) soup. And her regular cereal for breakfast.

She's in trouble if she wants toaster waffles, I don't think we've ever had those in the freezer the entire 33 years we've been together.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> She's been interested in chicken based (no not ours though maybe Daisy the egg eater would like to volunteer) soup. And her regular cereal for breakfast.
> 
> She's in trouble if she wants toaster waffles, I don't think we've ever had those in the freezer the entire 33 years we've been together.


I can send you a big box of toaster waffles. Somehow I seem to have lost my taste for them. Not responsible for their condition when they arrive.


----------



## Bruce

I suppose with enough real maple syrup they could be choked down.


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## farmerjan

Oh @Bruce ... I can feel for your DD and her BF.... all this electronic stuff on these cars is enough to give anyone a nightmare/headache.  Glad they could get the windshield fixed and at least get there... the brake stuff... YEP.... ALWAYS something... I guess the saving grace of it all is that we all were safe and no accidents resulting from it.


----------



## murphysranch

My niece gives herself a shot of Humira every Sunday. She's has ulcerative colitis. There is nothing else that helps/keeps her alive. Its expensive but luckily she's on Medicaid.


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## Bruce

VERY expensive without insurance. DW has to keep working for 5 years to make P.O. retirement and Medicare. She does every other week. WAY back when she started on Enbrel it was twice a week. She's getting rather tired of sticking herself after over 20 years of doing it.


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## Baymule

Another 5 years, I bet she is counting down the time! Meanwhile, ol' Bruce is the retired House Husband!


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## Bruce

Tis true! But if she works to 65 we'll have worked the same number of years


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## Bruce

Spent a lot of time on the phone yesterday, first with the VT dept of taxes getting them to understand that we did in fact pay our taxes in full. Somehow they had "lost" one of the estimated payments from January. She got that fixed but I still have to fill in the form asking them to abate the penalty and interest because she couldn't do that. 

Then the "fun" call to the IRS. First, of course, I'm on hold for a LONG time, killed the phone with the weak battery, then the one DW had in the BR with her (turns out it was plugged into the switched outlet for the light and wasn't charged). Got the upstairs phone and finally some lady with an Indian accent on a bad connection. Had a hard time understanding what she was saying. 

They claimed I owed $325 plus another $200+ for penalties and interest. How is it reasonable to penalize at 60% of what is owed!!! The April estimated payment for 2022 was applied to 2021 taxes AND happens to be $325 less than what we owed in April. Turns out that was my fault because I used the ES forms they mailed to me but they were for 2021 and I didn't realize that until last week when I went to pay the second installment. Printed new ones for payments 2-4.

OK, they had the estimated payment for 2022 applied to 2021 so they should have had WAY more money than I owed applied to 2021 taxes, right. What happened to the 2021 tax payment I made in April WITH 2021 1040-V written on the memo line?? THEY FREKIN' APPLIED IT TO 2020 TAXES!!!!! WTH???? First, how did they screw that up and WTH would anyone want to pay extra on the prior years taxes which were already paid?? Does no one have a brain there?? 

Since I asked (they have to get permission from the taxpayer to move money between years even if THEY screwed up) she got the payment moved to 2021. BUT it will take 10 days to get the penalty and interest removed. AND since they can't move anything without the taxpayer requesting it, I have to call them back in 10 days, spend another half a lifetime on hold, and request the then presumably complete estimated payment moved from 2021 to 2022. Otherwise they would send me my "refund". However I'm afraid if I got that and send them a new check for the first estimated 2022 payment they will claim it was late and charge me a penalty and interest.

I wonder why people hate dealing with the IRS. I also wonder why I can't charge them the penalty and interest they were going to charge me since I had to deal with their incompetence.


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## Baymule

Oh the IRS woes!! BJ and I closed down a furniture store in December 2001. In May of 2002, on my birthday no less, I got 2 orangey envelopes. I immediately knew that color, yep, IRS. Inside was checks, totaling $27,000! 

NOT MY MONEY! 

It could only mean trouble. I called them. A bright female voice told me since I closed my business in June 2001, it was a refund of payroll taxes. Uhh, no, I closed in December 2001. Miss Brilliant said to just send them back. Yeah, right. I was so mad I tossed them on the dresser. Time passed. The IRS sent me an invitation to pay taxes on the $1500 in interest they paid me for holding that $27,000 of their money. 

I wasn’t going to pay income tax on interest that wasn’t mine to start with, so I contacted Marvin Zindler on Channel 13 News in Houston. He was a colorful character whose claim to fame was closing down a whorehouse in LaGrange that had stood since before the Depression. The house straddled the county line. When the sheriff raided it, the ladies simply went to the other side of the house. Somehow both sheriffs never raided at the same time. There was a movie made about it. Best Little Whorehouse in Texas, starring Dolly Parton and Burt Reynolds. 

After that Marvin Zindler became a consumer advocate on the evening news. He interviewed me and put it on the news, making idiots of the IRS. He set me an appointment at the Federal Building to take the checks back, I took copies of all my employment records, 941 deposit forms, copies of checks, the works, to “prove” the money did in fact, belong to the IRS. 

Bruce, I feel your pain.


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