# Hereford/ angus mix growth rate.



## porkchop48

We currently have a small 3 month old calf. 

He is still eating calf starter about 2 lbs a day and free choice hay.  How much should he be growing? And how long should it take him to get to a good size to slaughter? Or what size should he be when we do slaughter him?


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## WildRoseBeef

It really depends on what you're feeding him.  Normally a Herf-Angus calf would or should gain around 2 lbs per day (this is referred to as ADG or average daily gain, btw). Normal ADG for this hybrid can range from 1.5 lb/d to 3 lb/d.  The lower amount would be from a restricted quality diet, like if he were only fed hay, not hay and calf-started.  As far as how old he's going to be when slaughtered, I'd target him to be between 15 to 18 months of age.  Since he's only 3 months old, that's going to be a year and a few months before you get any meat from him.  At that age he should be around 1000 to 1200 lbs.

Remember with the protein supplements, protein requirements get lower as he gets older.  Right now he's at the point where he needs 16% protein.  When he's 6 months old, he'll only need 14% protein; at 9 months it'll be 12% protein, and so on.  Energy requirements increase when he gets closer to the age of butchering.  Slowly increase energy intake, starting when he's around 3 to 4 weeks away from the projected slaughter date.


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## greybeard

And don't be alarmed if at around 10-12 months that he "appears" to you, not to be growing. He still will be, but not neccessarily in ways that you can readily see.  Another pecular thing is that people swear their animal isn't growing at all, but that's just because they see them every day and the changes are minute and so gradual they don't notice. He'll noticably put on weight, height and length early on, then months down the road, the growth is much more subtle. And keep in mind, that it's not always what's visibly on the outside that counts most.


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## porkchop48

Thank you guys. 

he is currently running with my goat herd and they seem to be bonding well. He follows them around. They have showed him where the spring fed water trough is as well as where the lower barn is.   I noticed yesterday that he even follows them when they come up to eat.  It seems as soon as I pull in the drive way they come running and line up at the feed trough. He now runs with them ( a little slower like the physically challenged brother but he tries) and goes to the spot where I have been feeding him. 

I then close the gate to pen him up to feed him his grain and them their grain.  I did not want him eating their food nor them eating his calf starter. He is still on the 18 % calf starter, is that too much protein? SHould I look for a 16% one? 

he does graze alot in the fields and does not seem to each much hay... Could that be because he is eating so much grass? It is still nice and green here.


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## goodhors

You will want to be handling him a bit, put the halter on and tie him to eat.  You can swipe a brush 
over him at that time.  Cattle LOVE getting brushed, with stiffer bristle preferred.  Leading him 
in or out to the feed bucket will PAY OFF in ease of handling as he gets older.  Don't ever let him
rub on you, puts you down lower in herd status.  You may already be doing this, just didn't mention 
it.  Unhandled catte in large sizes can be dangerous when you need to take him for processing or 
giving him shots or when worming time comes.  At his smaller size now, you can MAKE him come 
when led or behave during time standing tied for grooming, so he will BELIEVE you can still do that 
when he weighs the 1200 pounds!!

Handling shows best results if done DAILY, even if only for a few minutes.

Is there a label on your calf feed?  They may tell you how long to feed that higher protien feed, what
age to change to "their brand" of the lower protein feeds.  Make sure you are counting ALL the feeds
you provide to add up your protiens.  Alfalfa pellets have protein as well, so if added with his calf 
feed, you may be feeding too high a level as he gets older.  We used our alfalfa pellets as an additive
to our calf feed which I had mixed.  Didn't feed a brand name grain to our calves, so I had to 
figure my own percentages.  Alfalfa pellets do work well as a calf treat, for coming when called, leading
well, standing while getting the halter off when released.  Most cattle with do almost anything for TREATS!!


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## greybeard

Yes, good advise from goodhors--as usual.  Handle him as much as you can, watch about making abrupt moves or loud noises--cattle have an ingrained sense of danger when a noise hits their ears that is out of the ordinary and they will associate that sudden noise with danger, even if it comes from the hand that feeds them--and they have long memories. 

As far as him not eating much hay......
Hay is a replacement for real grass, so if he still has plenty of pasture forage, he won't be as apt to need or want it as he would if there were no growing pasture, but that depends on what type of winter forage you have available.  I have plenty of ryegrass but the cattle prefer hay to it, tho that may be because it is easier to just stand and eat instead of wandering and grazing. 

You say "he". Is this still a bull or steer?


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## porkchop48

greybeard said:
			
		

> Yes, good advise from goodhors--as usual.  Handle him as much as you can, watch about making abrupt moves or loud noises--cattle have an ingrained sense of danger when a noise hits their ears that is out of the ordinary and they will associate that sudden noise with danger, even if it comes from the hand that feeds them--and they have long memories.
> 
> As far as him not eating much hay......
> Hay is a replacement for real grass, so if he still has plenty of pasture forage, he won't be as apt to need or want it as he would if there were no growing pasture, but that depends on what type of winter forage you have available.  I have plenty of ryegrass but the cattle prefer hay to it, tho that may be because it is easier to just stand and eat instead of wandering and grazing.
> 
> You say "he". Is this still a bull or steer?


Thank you guys. Very very much. 

As for a halter he does not have one.  Should I get one? would he wear it all the time? How the heck do I know if it will fit. 

He gets a good rub down daily. I have not got him  a brush yet but it is on my list for next trip to the feed store.
But as you mentioned he does rub his head on my legs. How do I go about correcting this now instead of later?

he is currently still a bull. He will be banded in about 2 weeks. 

I will check the label next time I go to the feed store. I have it in larger cans now so I no longer have the bags. He does get a handful of alfalfa in his food as well as beef pulp.  Should I skip those two things?


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## carolinagirl

I was just reseaching halter training yesterday for my Dexters (which I don't have yet).  I'll quote Charles Townson, a Dexter breeder here in South Carolina.  I think this is excellent advise!

" In terms of halter breaking, I can only tell you how I do it and the system works for me. You will find lots of differing opinions on how to best do this so take my recommendation for what it is worth. I get a halter on them - this might be a challenge physically given her size. Get her into a chute or a confined area to get the halter on her properly. We use a nylon rope halter that adjusts very quickly - these are inexpensive and one size fits all. After getting this done, tie her up to a fence post or some other structure. Make sure she cannot get tangled up in the rope or have any chance of strangling herself. A couple of feet of play in the halter rope is about right. Then, let her pull and struggle against the rope for an hour. Have some water nearby but out of reach. After an hour, untie her and walk her to the water (this may be a physical challenge so be careful). She may or may not drink at this point. Repeat the process. Repeat the process. Repeat the process. She will eventually drink, which serves as a reward. Pet her and talk to her throughout the entire process. I dedicate an entire day to this when I do it and have seen incredible progress within a few hours. You can do other work while she is tied, just be able to check on her to insure safety. Again, this is the system I use and it works for me. I NEVER let the cow escape from me on the halter so it can be a physical challenge with an older heifer like this one. At the end of the day the goal is for the heifer to know that once a halter is on, she cannot get away from you under any circumstances. 

Read more: http://dextercattle.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=2022#ixzz1jGyvlqx6"


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## Stubbornhillfarm

porkchop48 said:
			
		

> greybeard said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, good advise from goodhors--as usual.  Handle him as much as you can, watch about making abrupt moves or loud noises--cattle have an ingrained sense of danger when a noise hits their ears that is out of the ordinary and they will associate that sudden noise with danger, even if it comes from the hand that feeds them--and they have long memories.
> 
> As far as him not eating much hay......
> Hay is a replacement for real grass, so if he still has plenty of pasture forage, he won't be as apt to need or want it as he would if there were no growing pasture, but that depends on what type of winter forage you have available.  I have plenty of ryegrass but the cattle prefer hay to it, tho that may be because it is easier to just stand and eat instead of wandering and grazing.
> 
> You say "he". Is this still a bull or steer?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you guys. Very very much.
> 
> *As for a halter he does not have one.  Should I get one? would he wear it all the time? How the heck do I know if it will fit. *
> He gets a good rub down daily. I have not got him  a brush yet but it is on my list for next trip to the feed store.
> But as you mentioned he does rub his head on my legs. How do I go about correcting this now instead of later?
> 
> he is currently still a bull. He will be banded in about 2 weeks.
> 
> I will check the label next time I go to the feed store. I have it in larger cans now so I no longer have the bags. He does get a handful of alfalfa in his food as well as beef pulp.  Should I skip those two things?
Click to expand...

We have learned over time that for us it is easiest to put the halter on them before they even get off the truck.  However, we did not do this from the start.  We currently have 4 in our herd.  They all have halters on all the time.  For us, it is just easier if we need to grab them or tie them off to have something to hold on to.  Most halters are sized, "calf, yearling, cow, bull".  Currently, you should be safe with the calf one.  Then you check periodically to make sure they are not too tight.  Our Jersey steers that are roughly 9 months old are still in a "calf" halter.  Our Hereford/Angus cross steer (roughly 1 1/2 years) is still in a "cow" halter.  

As far as the rubbing goes:  (and I am not an expert, this is just what has worked for us) When he rubs, say, "no" in a tone to get his attention and step back.  Keep doing this until he stops rubbing.   It didn't take ours too long to figure it out.  

Best wishes to you and your farm!


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## goodhors

With ours being handled daily, we used the "slip rope" halter.  One piece of rope with twists.  You 
have a fixed noseband, but easily can adjust the crown behind the ears, chinstrap, to make it fit 
snugly.  I don't leave it on the animal when I am not leading him about.  Would be easy to rub it 
sideways, make a noose around his neck to choke him.  

These type halters DO NOT release tension when the pull is released.  So you have to keep checking
that they are not tight when animals are being cooperative.  REWARD the animal who comes right
along by just a snug chinstrap.  They are cheap, usually under $6.  However the rope lead should be 
held with GLOVED hands to prevent ropeburns.  They are different from sheep halters of a similar
design with harder rope, MUCH longer lead rope lengths to hold an animal with.  You NEED that 
length if calf starts being silly, jumping about, for space of safety, as well as room to hold on to
when they do that first big HOP feeling good.  We tie a simple knot in the end so it can't slide thru 
your hand if you need to pull on him.

I am big on "no halter in the field" to prevent any injury or animal getting hung up on something.
Some terrible injuries and even deaths I have known, were from halters left on animal, then 
getting tangled or hung up so animal could not get free.  I want my animals to COME when called,
get their alfalfa treat, let me put the halter on them to work with him.

The nylon halters that buckle on are very strong, will hold the animal tied well with a good rope.  I 
get the X chin model, no running chains under.  As with all moving parts, sometimes the chain will
get hung up, not release or gives too much room so animal can rub halter off.  With the X chin on 
halter, the tie ring is in the center of the X, moves slightly to tighten straps around the head.  Seems
to stay on pretty well if rubbed and even with the very tiny nosed dairy cattle/calves.  I just don't leave the nylon
halters on when cattle are not being tied or worked on for some handling need.  

Safety with no halter to snag up, to me, beats having an injured or dead animal.  I WORK at having 
my cattle, sheep, willing to come and get halters on.  Lets us handle them easier, less stress on EVERYONE
because they accept handling as "normal" and nothing to get excited about.  They ALWAYS get something
to eat when lead to the barn to tie for being worked on.  Cows LOVE food, willing to put up with the other
for treats.

You can tie the animal with the Slip Rope Halter, IF YOU STAY THERE with him.  You could groom him, 
practice picking up hooves, hold the bucket for his feed.  Then untie, lead him where you want, remove 
Slip Rope Halter and turn him out again.  These Halters go on and off fast, cheap, fit any size animal.  
We get them in bright colors, easy to locate the halter when needed.  Calf will
QUICKLY learn that being tied is no big deal.   You can check his chinstrap to make sure it is not too
tight while tied and being groomed.  Often slobbering is a big warning sign that calf is getting stressed or 
can't beathe with chinstrap too tight.  Check him out, perhaps relax on whatever might be stressing
him for a bit so he can calm down, get his breathing back to normal.  As I said, Slip Rope Halters just 
DO NOT release when pulled on, Handler has to pay attention and give the animal some chinstrap 
room again when pulling stops.

Our calves and heifers NEVER get slobber in daily life, only when stressed and excited for some reason.
That is your warning sign when the bubbles appear.  First check is for tight chinstrap.  Then we slow
down on showing them what we want them doing.  Entice them to load with feed, little steps.  Lead them
slowly to look at new places they don't usually go, but be PREPARED for them to try running.  Review
things you have done before.  Show calves spend time in the grooming chute while being worked on.

You may "ONLY" be raising him for the freezer, but if he got loose, things will go a lot easier if he comes
to be haltered and given treats when you have practiced it before.  You NEVER KNOW when a situation 
will arise, gate left open, tree down on the fence, and you NEED that training to become effective!  The
non-friendly calf won't let you within a MILE.  Buddy there, trots over to you for his bucket of alfalfa pellets
and being haltered to lead back home.  You are his FRIEND WITH FOOD!!  He KNOWS you, not scary to him.

I once watched my friend call her Angus heifer to us from a herd of cows the owner SAID were ALL HIS.  We
had tracked the escaped heifer to the fence line of the neighbor with a HERD of Angus cattle.  He told us
there were no extra animals in the herd.  My friend asked if she could try calling her heifer.  He laughed, 
but said sure.  Probably figured one cow wouldn't leave a herd.  He was pretty dumbfounded when the 
one heifer came to my friend for treats, got her halter on.  "That is my heifer" said my friend.  We lead
her on home beside the horse.  This was before the days of everyone ear-tagging, and one nice Angus looked 
pretty much like another!  He was the only one who KNEW how many heifers he had in that bunch, a 
free one would be a good addition!  Friend would have lost the heifer to him with no recourse to the law.

Worth it to me, training the animals, because it eases handling for the rest of the time we have them.


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## porkchop48

Thank you all very much for the information. 

I will be working on getting him a halter this week. He currently comes when called and comes running when he sees his blue feed bucket. Him and the goat herd he runs with are fed seperate food so when I give them their daily grain I need them seperated. He has already learned where his food is put down ( in a place where I can close a gate and keep the goats out) and he goes there and waits. 

While eating I make sure to give him a good rub down to get use to being touched all over.  I hav enot seen him slobbering so I am guessing this a good thing. He has learned where the lower barn is by following the goats and also learned where the spring fed water is by following the goats. My goats are handled daily as well and come when called so I hope he keeps learning from them. 


Even though he is going to be butchered I want him to be well behaved and well fed which is why I spend time with him every day.  Yes I will cry like a baby when the time come but knowing he was cared for will help.


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