# LGD's Suggestions Please!



## ShadowsFIAL (Mar 30, 2016)

Hello~ I am well over a year out from moving to my property and getting any livestock, but I am wanting to get as much info as I can before I do. I am planning on getting a livestock guardian or two, however I am not entirely sure on the breed I want. I really don't want a solid white dog. I like things with color, and I do not like great pyrenees. I have groomed enough of them to know I don't like them. I am considering the anatolian shepherd... and another question, I keep getting mixed reviews on this topic from what I have read, would a rottweiler make a good LGD? Some people say no they are herding dogs, while others say they are great. I have three german shepherds now, and I can tell you that my white male GSD I think would be fine with goats or sheep, he loves donkeys and would play with our neighbors ones and would pull the stickers off of them. He even tried to keep one that was colicking up and moving by licking his face every time he would stop and try to lay down. Once he was up he would stop licking him and would just sit by him. Now my other two, not so sure. =_=


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## Southern by choice (Mar 30, 2016)

First, pet Pyrs and LGD Pyrs are very different.
Second, the LGD breeds were bred for a specific purpose. To guard Livestock. 
Having GSD's I can tell you NO German Shepherd is a match for a Anatolian or a Pyr or any other LGD breed.  The LGD's have been bred to do something Shepherds were not. Their entire make -up is different. Same goes for Rotts. 

Rotts are guard dogs, but NOT Livestock Guardian Dog... the key here is the LIVESTOCK part. 

It doesn't mean family pets can't be good with the animals... that isn't it... it is that they cannot deal with predators the way LGD's can. LGD's bond with their livestock... non LGD's nond with their human family.

By that I do not mean that LGD's don't love their people or  their family and should be interacted with but they do have an on/off switch... they take their job seriously and they can do something you cannot nor can your family pets.


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## ShadowsFIAL (Mar 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> First, pet Pyrs and LGD Pyrs are very different.
> Second, the LGD breeds were bred for a specific purpose. To guard Livestock.
> Having GSD's I can tell you NO German Shepherd is a match for a Anatolian or a Pyr or any other LGD breed.  The LGD's have been bred to do something Shepherds were not. Their entire make -up is different. Same goes for Rotts.
> 
> ...



Haha it isn't the difference between pet and LGD Pyr, I just don't like all of the hair.  Or the drool. I have groomed a grand champion pry who sends semen straws for $3,000, and then I have groomed pets, as well as one LGD who just got too covered in stickers one day and needed a shave. Texas heat also is something that puts me off the Pyrs. 

Thank you for the input though! Looks like the Anatolians might be my best bet. I can't really find another breed that really catches my eye, aside from the ovcharka but they are also bred for the colder weather, and I don't want to do that to them haha!


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## Baymule (Mar 30, 2016)

I can tell you from personal experience, don't get the dogs first! I have two Pyrs and have a lot to overcome because they never laid eye on sheep until last November. I did everything bass-ack-wards.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 31, 2016)

We had a line on an excellent LGD and thought about getting one before we got livestock but SBC nicely told me what I did not want to hear and we did not get him.


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## ShadowsFIAL (Mar 31, 2016)

Baymule said:


> I can tell you from personal experience, don't get the dogs first! I have two Pyrs and have a lot to overcome because they never laid eye on sheep until last November. I did everything bass-ack-wards.





Mike CHS said:


> We had a line on an excellent LGD and thought about getting one before we got livestock but SBC nicely told me what I did not want to hear and we did not get him.



Thanks much! I was planning to try and get two LGD the same time as I got my lambs, or a little after I got them. Would this be a good idea? So that they grow up together?


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## Southern by choice (Mar 31, 2016)

Lambs may not be ideal. Pups tend to see bouncing hopping lambs as other pups and only encourages chase play behavior.

The key is properly evaluated LGD pups, proper pairing of pups, and supervision.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 31, 2016)

Something we are doing might work for you.  We are buying some "dog broke" sheep so we can finish training our herding dogs so something like that might work for you also.  They are older sheep and not real wary of dogs so they aren't doing much of that bouncing around that Southern mentioned.


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## ShadowsFIAL (Mar 31, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Lambs may not be ideal. Pups tend to see bouncing hopping lambs as other pups and only encourages chase play behavior.
> 
> The key is properly evaluated LGD pups, proper pairing of pups, and supervision.





Mike CHS said:


> Something we are doing might work for you.  We are buying some "dog broke" sheep so we can finish training our herding dogs so something like that might work for you also.  They are older sheep and not real wary of dogs so they aren't doing much of that bouncing around that Southern mentioned.



Grr lol. I am really wanting to get lambs... Would I be better off waiting till the lambs are yeearlings to introduce a LGD? I don't know if I would be able to find older border Leicester sheep... Perhaps I might be able to get a ram somewhere, but that would only be one adult... Maybe I will get lucky and can pick up two adults and two lambs.


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## Baymule (Mar 31, 2016)

You can always find older sheep. My male Pyr, Trip is 16 months old and he sees the lambs as playthings. The ewes butt him, but the lambs are too tempting. I only put him in with them under supervision or if I am close by where I can check on him. Think of it this way, maybe your first sheep aren't the ones you really want, but are expendable sheep that you train your dog with. That way if something goes all wrong, you won't take such a loss as you would if they were a registered breed special to you and cost you a lot of money.


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## Beekissed (Apr 3, 2016)

I'm wondering if you can't get a single pup and pair it with your white GSD, along with the lambs.  It could be that your older dog will help you show the pup how to behave around the sheep...I've read that Anatolians are great mimics and I've seen it also in this pup I have right now.  He has mimicked the best behavior from my older dog and so, when the older dog ignored the chickens, the pup did as well.  

Everyone said that I couldn't keep this young pup around chickens without him wanting to chase them but it hasn't happened and I know it won't by now, so I'm well satisfied that I didn't listen to that particular advice.  Training from day one, direction about undesirable behaviors, letting the pup take cues from the older dog and you when working with the sheep on a daily basis.  

Once you have that pup trained up and trustworthy, has a little age on him, then maybe add another pup so he can train up the next one.  I think most of my success with Ben has been due to my calm and obedient older dog's influence.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 3, 2016)

Beekissed said:


> I'm wondering if you can't get a single pup and pair it with your white GSD, along with the lambs.  It could be that your older dog will help you show the pup how to behave around the sheep...I've read that Anatolians are great mimics and I've seen it also in this pup I have right now.  He has mimicked the best behavior from my older dog and so, when the older dog ignored the chickens, the pup did as well.
> 
> Everyone said that I couldn't keep this young pup around chickens without him wanting to chase them but it hasn't happened and I know it won't by now, so I'm well satisfied that I didn't listen to that particular advice.  Training from day one, direction about undesirable behaviors, letting the pup take cues from the older dog and you when working with the sheep on a daily basis.
> 
> Once you have that pup trained up and trustworthy, has a little age on him, then maybe add another pup so he can train up the next one.  I think most of my success with Ben has been due to my calm and obedient older dog's influence.



I think just about any companion dog can be trained for poultry and to not harm livestock but it is not the same as  having a dog as an LGD. Ben has benefited from an older dog but Ben is not a livestock guardian in the truest sense. He is utilized as a farm dog/companion. Far different then a dog left to guard full time goats and sheep. In a practical sense many LGD pups do chase poultry but we have had many that never were influenced to do so.  Ben's genetic make up is of livestock guardian breeds, whereas a Shepherd or Rott or lab or whatever may do a good job watching over and making sure nothing harms anything they also do not have the make up to intently bond with livestock and will prefer their humans and those human comforts. There really is a big difference. I think much of Ben's success has been because you also chose to commit yourself to working with him everyday consistently.

Having an older well behaved dog will always be a benefit, just keep in mind that it is quite possible that your LGD over time may not appreciate the family dog in the field or around the sheep/goats. Non- LGD breeds are not wired  like LGD's and cannot truly teach an LGD. 

Play for a LGD is quite different.. "LGD games" are too much for non lgd breeds.

We have always had interaction with the non lgd's (family dogs) and all is well the LGD's know what is theirs and what is communal. However the non-lgd dogs are smart enough not to ever challenge one of the LGD's.

Every dog is different and the owner/handler makes all the difference but generalities are important... when you read dogs aren't ready til 2 years and they should not be with lambs/kids til then etc.... that is a generality because that is where most fit it. Skilled and solid tempered dogs with the right people doing the right things have their dogs guarding and in with lambs/ kids forever with no issues. Our have been in kidding stalls at 7 months. we have had 4-5 month old with baby kids no issues. 

I disagree Anatolians are great mimics. Anatolians are stubborn hard headed ( all in a good way) and are more independent in their thinking. They are quick to learn and in some ways easier than other breeds to train yet harder in other ways.


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