# Haven't even begun! A total newcommer



## 13Liveoaks (Feb 26, 2013)

Hello All!

I live in central Florida on 5+ acres, 3 of which I wish to use for a head or 2 for family consumption. Bulls no cows.
The area was once farmland and in digging down with post hole digger after 2 ft was still in beautiful black topsoil. Needless to say the grass grows wonderfully. I have read here that it may not be economically feasible to raise 1 or 2 bulls for consumption. I would really appreciate any input. Thanks!


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## 13Liveoaks (Feb 26, 2013)

I might have been too general with my request for help.
Specifically...
My grass does not grow for about 4+ months ...approximately mid November to mid March.
How much to supplement their diet over that time?
I read that bulls should be castrated at about 12 months for disposition
Do vets do that on site? Or do I have to transport?
How much for that?
How old should I get a bull and at what age are they slaughtered?
What is a good price for a young Angus/Hereford?
Do they need shelter? 
I already have fencing material and am putting up in couple of weeks than looking to purchase. I have running water in field and a trough that I figure would not be too much of an investment.
Got to go for now...will check back tonight
Thanks in advance!!


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## SheepGirl (Feb 26, 2013)

13Liveoaks said:
			
		

> I might have been too general with my request for help.
> Specifically...
> My grass does not grow for about 4+ months ...approximately mid November to mid March.
> How much to supplement their diet over that time?
> ...




Now, I don't know much about cattle (I'm mainly a sheep person ), but I did take Ag Science & Pre-Vet Large Animal in high school and I also worked at a petting farm that had cattle.

Three acres may not be enough to run two steers. In the winter when grass runs out, pen them up in a dry lot and feed them hay & grain until the grass grows back. Penning them up in the winter saves your pasture from becoming a muddy mess. How much they're fed during this time depends on how much they weigh and if you want to grain them.

Bulls should be castrated at weaning age (or earlier), which is believe is anywhere from 4-9 months old depending on the producer. Normally the producer does that themselves, with either an elastrator or a burdizzo emasculator. Price is free, except for the cost of the equipment to do it ($20-$50).

Depends on how long you want to feed them as to when you get them. Get them at weaning if you want to feed them out for 8-12 months. Buy feeders (I hope I'm using the right terminology for this one) if you want to feed them out for the last 3-4 months of their life.

I would expect to pay at least market price for your steers. Depending on the time of year & weight you buy them at, it could be $89-$120/cwt. However, that's a rough guess. You need to do your research for your area. But expect to pay at least $400 for a 400 lb calf.

It would be nice if they had shelter from wind & rain. My understanding is that cattle don't really need shelter at all.


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## 13Liveoaks (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks for the valuable info!
I never even thought about what they might do to the field in the winter months.
That might be a game changer!
Not so sure about my being able to perform any kind of procedure on the bull, I don't even want to think too much on that one!
Maybe a little older steer thats had that problem resolved.
What do you think of getting a  weened 4 month old in the early Spring and then maybe butchering in late fall at 12 months old.
Do single steers do okay? I heard they do better in pairs.


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## WildRoseBeef (Feb 26, 2013)

Avoid getting a bull, no matter if it's one or two.  You're better off getting a weaned steer that has already been castrated soon after birth than getting a bull and stressing it out unnecessarily by castrating it at a year of age.  It is actually far more stressful to castrate a bull at that age than getting one that has been castrated soon after birth.  Stress for any bovine means they eat less, gain less (or not at all...to the point of losing weight), and have a chance of getting sick more often.  No, bulls should be castrated at 12 months, they should be castrated much sooner than this. If you purchase a steer, that saves you a lot of extra time, money and worry of the de-nutting part.  Trust me on that. 

With three acres, even two steers can put a stress on grass unless you're wanting to implement some rotational grazing. You can raise one animal by itself, it's been done before by a number of other people, on and off here.

Supplement if its necessary. Usually most supplement feeds can be fed at around 1% of the calf's body weight per day.  Slowly introduce a feed ration (corn or barley, oats, etc.) until you're feeding full-feed (or limit-feed, since you don't want to feed too much so that a) the steer bloats or b) it gets too picky about what it likes to eat.

For the first year you need to focus on first growing the steer before fattening it up, especially with a British-type steer. Depending on how much meat you want, you can fatten your steer up to 18 months of age, plus or minus a bit. You can slaughter a steer at 9 to 12 months of age, or much older if it's strictly grass-fed (i.e., 24-30 mo.)  

Cattle don't need shelter.  You can let it have access to a lean-to shed for your peace of mind, though. 

Sheepgirl has it right about paying market price. You can buy a young steer at 3 to 4 mo. of age, but most are bought/sold at ~6 mo. old.


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## ourflockof4 (Feb 27, 2013)

Where are you finding angus/hereford cross calves for $89/cwt? I'll take a dozen. The current commodity price for feeders is around $150/cwt. Locally at auction I can get heifer calves in the $130 range, and steers in the $140-$150 range. These are nice 400-600 lbs calves. Lighter tend to edge up the the $175 range, heavier trend down a little. Private party sales tend to edge a little higher then auction prices. Some high quality feeders have even been hitting the $200 range, but all prices have been trending down lately.

I'm sure it varies some locally, but typically feeder calves will be in the 350-600 lbs range, yearlings in the 800-900 lbs range, & fat or finished cattle in the 1200-1400 lb range.

On good grass calves can gain around 2 lbs/day. If you dont want to over winter any then just figure your days of grazing & work backwards to a buy date & weight.

Heifer calves don't grow quite as fast as steers, and steers don't grow quite as fast as bulls on average. There is nothing wrong with raising heifers for beef though, and the buy in will be less. Chances are a decent producer will not be selling feeder bulls, and if they are I would really look at the quality of the calves. If one slipped through then that's one thing, but selling a group of bull feeders would throw up a red flag to me.


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## SheepGirl (Feb 27, 2013)

ourflockof4 said:
			
		

> Where are you finding angus/hereford cross calves for $89/cwt? I'll take a dozen. The current commodity price for feeders is around $150/cwt. Locally at auction I can get heifer calves in the $130 range, and steers in the $140-$150 range. These are nice 400-600 lbs calves. Lighter tend to edge up the the $175 range, heavier trend down a little. Private party sales tend to edge a little higher then auction prices. Some high quality feeders have even been hitting the $200 range, but all prices have been trending down lately.
> 
> I'm sure it varies some locally, but typically feeder calves will be in the 350-600 lbs range, yearlings in the 800-900 lbs range, & fat or finished cattle in the 1200-1400 lb range.
> 
> ...


lol, I haven't looked at prices for cattle. I just came up with a random number in my head lol


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## 13Liveoaks (Apr 11, 2013)

First...thanks for the initial input.
Finished fencing..trough etc. and
Early am Wednesday I got my first two Black Angus steers....together about 850lbs. 
Since I am a newbie, I have some questions.
Again I am in central Florida on very nice farmland and the grass grows quickly.
The cattleman that I purchased from thought that on my 3  acres of grazing that I could support more.
I think I might agree in that in the two days of grazing the grass is way outgrowing their eating. They only graze about a quarter of the pasture.
They don't seem to go to their water trough by the garage. Should I move it to the middle of the field or will they eventually go to it?
This might be a dumb question but can I lead them to the trough with rope. They won't let me come near now.
Thanks for any replys.


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## BrownSheep (Apr 11, 2013)

Cattle can and will travel for up to a mile for water. With the moisture their consuming with the grass they probably are super thirsty. As it starts heating up they'll start drinking more. There is no need to lead them to the water.

I'ld leave it where it is they'll find it in their own time.


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## 13Liveoaks (Apr 11, 2013)

Thanks BrownSheep

I will keep it there for now and post when they find it.
One of the concerns was that the garage also has an apartment with a barking dog through the window. Originally I thought the steers would not be so timid or wouldn't care and plumbed the trough close to water supply. I am not sure what to think. They come relatively close and don't seem to be too concerned with the dog. Hopefully they will get used to the situation.


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## 13Liveoaks (Apr 12, 2013)

At 12:00 noon EST, the trough and mineral lick was discovered. Worried for two days but can now breathe easier.


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## 13Liveoaks (Apr 17, 2013)

I have a question for all you knowledgeable ranchers. I have my two new Angus Steer feeding very nicely in their pasture, but they can't keep up with the grass growth. I am thinking of getting a couple more but if I don't, does it matter if the grass starts getting really tall.
Not sure about the investment yet. Any advise?


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## WildRoseBeef (Apr 17, 2013)

Are they in one big pasture or in one of several pastures?  If the latter, then move them around more often and don't try to graze it down to a little bit left.  If the former, then break up the pastures and move them around enough that they're only able to take one bite per plant before moving them again.  If neither of those things work, then it might be worth while adding another steer to the herd.


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## 13Liveoaks (Apr 17, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Karin.
They are in one pasture about about 330ftx330 ft. The cost to seperate to two pastures would cost me more than getting two more steers. They move around and graze the entire area. My 86 year old mother has an apartment looking over the area and monitors their activity all day. I think it is fun for her. Anyway I was concerned if they have to forage through tall grass that's out of control it might effect their health, insects etc. maybe there's no concern. I actually thought about goats but these steers are just summer grazers and will only be here through grass growing season. Goats would be year round and need winter housing, food, etc.
If it gets too bad maybe I'll just mow a section.


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Apr 18, 2013)

Hi there!  Congrats on your new herd!  

Just maybe a suggestion.  I know you said it would cost a lot to divide up the pasture.  But I didn't know if you had thought of something so simple as one strand of hot wire across the middle?  That doesn't cost much and it would allow you to do some rotational grazing.  They graze one side and while doing so the other side grows, then you let the wire down, get them to the long side and let them graze there.  And on, and on, etc.  

You will find something that work for you I'm sure.  Glad your mother is finding joy in watching them.


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## 13Liveoaks (Apr 18, 2013)

Thanks SHF
Yes I did think of the wire but I plumbed in an auto fill trough that's not easily moved. I will moniter growth of grass vs more head for now. My latest thought is if they can't keep up then I would use the wire to decrease their pasture and use the additional space for produce. Still mulling over options. They are eating like crazy but we have not had any rain in days. Somewhat keeping up for now. Maybe it's my imagination but for the eight days they have been here they seem much bigger.


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## WildRoseBeef (Apr 18, 2013)

You don't need to go all out and build a new permanent pasture fence to separate up the current pasture.  If that's what you were implying that's not what I was saying at all.  All you need is a simple set-up, one strand of hot-wire with some pig-tail posts set apart every 10 feet or so, with the paddocks set up so that you don't have to be forced to move your waterer everytime you move your cattle.  You don't have to wire up your pasture in straight strips from one end to the other, you can be creative and angle the wires so that the two animals still have access to water but can be moved from one grazing area to another in more of a triangular or some sort of odd shape-type strips.  

Tall grass that has headed out decreases in nutrient quality.  It becomes more fibre than protein.  If pastures are kept in a vegetative stage while at the same time maintaining a resting period of around 30 days between moves (if that is possible for you), they will be quite nutritive, even more so when plants aren't watered down by constant rain.  Too much rain can be a bad thing, it can make grass that looks nice and green be nothing more than vegetative water, or hay no better quality than straw. And a pasture that gets overgrazed in one area and undergrazed in another is not good either.  If you want some extra reading, check out this page I made from regarding grazing: http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=236-grazing-methods


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## 13Liveoaks (Apr 19, 2013)

Well Karin if that's your article you definitely have grazing down to a science. After thinking about this what I will do is just decrease the pasture size with a wire for now if needed. Next year I will permanently put up a fence and use the new area for a cow. I am actually thinking small barn and the whole nine yards. I knew this would happen as I've got the fever. I would like to upload pics at some point. Anyway thanks all!!!


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## WildRoseBeef (Apr 20, 2013)

13Liveoaks said:
			
		

> Well Karin if that's your article you definitely have grazing down to a science.


I've studied grazing practices in university.  It's not my article as in my writing, (see the italicized text above from where it came from), but from a book I have studied from and use as a basis for making decisions on grazing practices.  And even then, that part I put in my page is just the tip of the iceberg.   Grazing is an art and a science, it's not all about just throwing a couple of animals out to pasture and hoping for the best.


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## 13Liveoaks (Apr 20, 2013)

Karin....Didn't mean to give you credit that wasn't due. Read through too quickly without noticing reference. I think my questions show my concern for the cattles' well being and not just throwing them out to pasture, not that you implied that. I do appreciate your time and you have been most helpful!


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