# ram handling and body-language Qs



## patandchickens (May 4, 2010)

Hi, me again, sorry 

So Jose (yearling shetland ram) is really a lot more gentlemanly than I would have expected of a ram (I know nothing about sheep though), BUT, he is clearly a ram and all that. He has bopped an empty water bucket with his head when he was annoyed at me for not feeding him (got the other *non-empty* bucket dumped on him, hasn't done it since) and he whomps into the fence and pen divider with his head when he feels he should be part of what the girls are doing on the other side e.g. being grained.

I know you're not supposed to pet/touch/shove them on the top of the head, I've got that.

But, what ARE you supposed to do with a ram?

1) is it ok to put a hand on his chest to hold him back a moment, or will that encourage him to get into pushing-or-butting mode?

2) he seems to really love having me stroke the underside of his chin/jaw/neck. Sometimes when I am doing this he relaxes so his head is resting softly in the palm of my hand. Is this ok for me to be doing, or is some sort of bad behavior apt to develop from it? 

3) How do I move him where I want? He is EXTREMELY food-motivated, to the point where I am reluctant to use a feed bucket to lead him where I want him to go because I do not want to reinforce him mugging me for snacks. But OTOH i don't want him to feel I am chasing/shooing him either and see me as an adversary or threat. He will back off a little if I put my head down at him but I am pretty sure THAT's not a good idea. So I don't know what's appropriate, in terms of tactics and body language. What are you _supposed_ to do, to get a ram to go where you want him to (he is alone in his pen/paddock, adjacent to the other sheeps'; I need to put him in the roofed pen at night, b/c am not convinced my fence is coyoteproof yet)

4) knowing how much horses are affected by handler position and body language, I would think sheep would be to some extent to, but I do not speak sheep. Anyone want to give me some basic tips here, aside from "if you approach too close they run away" which I have already figured out thanks ?

Any and all input much appreciated,

Pat


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## aggieterpkatie (May 4, 2010)

Petting him under the head is usually ok.  Some people say don't touch the head at all, but eh.  To each their own.  It's mainly the petting on top of the head that causes issues.  Or you can scratch his back if you want, if he likes that.  

As far as moving them, I just lead rams using grain like the rest of the sheep, but I tend to hold the bucket to the side so if they do decide to target something it's not near me.  

I don't think sheep are nearly as sensitive to body language as horses.  Sheep definitely react to flight zones and stuff.  Also, you can use your voice as a deterrent if he's doing something jerky.


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## Beekissed (May 4, 2010)

From what I've read and noticed with herding my own gals, the shoulder is the point of balance for sheep, just like horses. 

 As for rams...I'm still figuring that one out.  This loaner ram I have is not flighty like my girls and he invades my personal space.  He likes being scratched but will mug me when food is present or if he even THINKS food is present.....head right up against my rear, which makes me nervous to say the least!  :/

I'm having some success with a long, white fiberglass rod...he seems to respect this stick.  I just touch him along the flanks with it and he moves away...and its a very light touch, so maybe those shepherd crooks aren't just for catching, huh?  

I'll tell you another thing he just does not like and will move away to avoid....if I tug on his ear when he gets too close.  I don't know if that is typical for all rams, so I figure its a learn as you go sort of thing.

I've tried the whole water in the face thingy and it only works until they shake the water off their face...then its right back in your space again!  Now, my girls would learn from that, but this guy sheep is an idiot!!


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## big brown horse (May 10, 2010)

Glad you posted this Pat!  (Does your ram have horns?  Just curoius.)




ETA:  Nevermind, I just saw his horns in your pics!


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## patandchickens (May 10, 2010)

Yup, he do, beautiful ones and going to be SO handsome in another year or so once they curl all the way around , and so does the wethered lamb.

Pat


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## genuck (Aug 5, 2011)

I'd like to add some questions to this. I have two rams. A yearling shetland x coopworth and a weanling shetland, Walter. The yearling I've never had any problem with. He's not skittish but moves away when I shoo him, he will walk in front of me and try to make me stop when I have food. He is into smelling the girls and making the flehmen face. I've never seen him breed any of them but I did get a lamb this spring from the one ewe I had last fall. I scratch him on the back and under the chin sometimes, he really enjoys it and when I am done goes back to grazing. Am I asking for trouble? He is going to the freezer once Walter matures.

 Now Walter, is very friendly and unafraid of people. Even with hardly any handling he is like this. He comes and stands by me, I can't help but rub him under the chin and give him some scratches. I've been warned and have seen the warnings, I'm pretty paranoid about handling my ram lamb. I don't want him to be mean or dangerous. Is there any training I can do to give him manners, like show training? I mean a ram has to be handled and 'tame' to go in the ring right? I just hate turning a cold shoulder to him when he just want's to 'hang out'

 When I lead any of my rams it's by the horns, they just make such great handles and 'steering wheels' Any opinions on that? My lamb is sorta halter trained and the ram is sorta collar trained.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 6, 2011)

> Now Walter, is very friendly and unafraid of people. Even with hardly any handling he is like this. He comes and stands by me, I can't help but rub him under the chin and give him some scratches. I've been warned and have seen the warnings, I'm pretty paranoid about handling my ram lamb. I don't want him to be mean or dangerous. *Is there any training I can do to give him manners, like show training? I mean a ram has to be handled and 'tame' to go in the ring right? I just hate turning a cold shoulder to him when he just want's to 'hang out'*
> 
> When I lead any of my rams it's by the horns, they just make such great handles and 'steering wheels' Any opinions on that? My lamb is sorta halter trained and the ram is sorta collar trained.


I think that's an excellent idea.  And would be interested to hear if "training" could help  manage a ram, plus be able to have some kind of bond.   Hope someone will help alleviate your paranoia so that you and Walter can start a "safe" relationship.   

If "freezer camp" is close at hand for your other ram, I would continue the scratch under the chin.  Why change now with him?  Seems like he knows who's the Boss, and respects you in his way.  

Just my opinion.


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 6, 2011)

Well, show training (which is just teaching them to lead and stand) is about the same as just petting them and making them not afraid of people.  I don't really think it will do anything to prevent him from being rude.  Some rams are more calm than others, but all rams can be jerks if they want to or decide to.  

And I very much dislike horned animals, that's just my opinion.  Every horned animal I've dealt with HATED their horns being touched, and would jerk away if someone bothered their horns.  Many people say they use the horns as handles, but I personally think it would make the animals head shy and defensive.  That's just me though.


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## goodhors (Aug 7, 2011)

I would agree that using  horns as handles, on a ram is asking for trouble.  Horns are for hitting things with.  Would you like someone to come along and grab your ear, which is attached to YOUR head?  Maybe you could just keep a sheep lead in your pocket or hanging in a handy place to grab, if you need to do things with the ram.

I would think your handling young ram like a show sheep, doing a little leading and setting up practice daily, will only make him better behaved, easier to handle later, in his daily life.   You appear to plan to show him, so best have your show routine going while he is young.  Just being handled daily makes a HUGE difference in how well a lamb or sheep behave later on.  Have you ever shown sheep?  You can't use a halter in the ring.  Only small children or folks who have never shown sheep go to the ring with a halter on the animal.  You are marked as a "newcomer" by the halter in the ring.  Sheep or lamb must move forward  smoothly as you hold the head to lead him.  You need to learn the "sheep grip" for correct control.  He must allow legs to be placed, "brace" pushing his chest against your leg while the Judge inspects his body and wool in breed classes.  Ram is not allowed to behave badly in a ring with other rams present.  You have to work with the animal often at home, to develop the smoothness of a working relationship in the ring.

My understanding of ram handling is NOT to rub or scratch the top of the skull.  This is the horns, horn base area, between the eyes and down the front of face.  Supposedly rubbing and scratcing this area stimulates the fight reaction in a ram, both sheep and goats.  Cheeks and under side of skull/head is fine for scratching, not a place rams hit when they fight, so not fight stimulating.  And horn handling, holding, pulling, would be fight stimulating, horns are defense and offense weapons.  Animal was always VERY resistant when I see them being dragged about by their horns, even when horn handling was common at that farm.  Some fought like tigers with horns grabbed!  WAY easier to slip a halter on or lead with a collar.

I agree that horns can be dangerous on any livestock.  Bad enough getting hit with a hornless skull.  Adding in horns is dangerous.  Nothing here with horns.  If I purchased an animal owning horns, they would be removed shortly.  Male animals used for breeding are extremely unpredictable, sure don't need horn weapons to add to that problem.  You may want to read some of the older posts on rams, how folks have been hurt with being butted.  Some severely.  A number of folks on here won't enter the ram pens at all.  Even small rams can hurt you, so horns should be removed for YOUR safety.


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## genuck (Aug 7, 2011)

Yeah they get pretty ticked by the horn handle lol. The older one at least was never halter trained, when I tried it he umped around like a deer and even now has a tendancy to bolt. Got myself some bad rope burn the other day when he went east and I went west (my fault really I was talking and not paying attention) They are both Shetlands, so removing the horns isn't really an option.

 I hadn't really thought about showing the younger one. I just figure an animal that's trained to behave and stand on command would be a lot easier to handle/reprimand/bring back to earth if he started acting randy. That's been my experience with stallions, after handling them it's a little hard to imagine my tiny sheep hurting me. But I also realize he's knee high and I'd get run under in a heartbeat.

 Thanks for the advice and I'll let you know how it goes, my neice showed lambs in 4-H so hopefully can give me some tips.

 As for the older one, he's in love with being rubbed on now. He comes over and stops with his shoulder to me then flaps his lips when I scratch him. The butt gets him dancing, guess I'll let him enjoy it til he goes to camp.


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## bonbean01 (Aug 14, 2011)

We really blew it with our first ram lamb...thought it cute when he did the pushing with his head on us...oh so NOT cute when he turned two years old and he became very dangerous...a good looking mature ram with a one hundred percent track record in breeding, but an injured or dead sheppard is not worth it.  We sold him cheap to a fellow that needed his ewes bred right away, and we told him that this was a dangerous ram and to please watch him always.  I'm guessing after his ewes were bred he took the ram to freezer camp.
Now...we bought a ram lamb this spring and have read up on how to raise him correctly (wish we'd known about this sheep forum long ago...so very helpful!)....and this little fellow is so friendly, but we're doing this right this time around...one thing that is helping (without hurting his feelings I hope) is carrying a water pistol for when he comes too close.  Hard to not love him up, but harder to be slammed into a tree down the road (that hurt!) or going for x-rays to check for a broken shin bone (that hurt too)..and then being afraid to go into the sheep pen and enjoy them.

So, I'm thinking the water pistol is a good way to go, since he's keeping his distance from us now.

Hope this helps someone


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## BeccaJoVon (Aug 16, 2011)

Hi.  I'm new to sheep and this forum.  

Are wethers dangerous at all?  I can't imagine there would be such a difference in dispositions.  We have had a few goats in the past, and the buck never seemed to be threatening at all.  He was a little more aggressive than the weather, but reading posts here, it sounds as though there is a big difference in sheep and goats.

Becky ~


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 16, 2011)

If a ram lamb is castrated at a young age, they grow up to be very nice pet wethers.  I've personally never met an aggressive wether.


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## BeccaJoVon (Aug 16, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> If a ram lamb is castrated at a young age, they grow up to be very nice pet wethers.  I've personally never met an aggressive wether.


Thanks!


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## thestewarts (Apr 11, 2013)

I just read through all this. We brought our new sheep home yesterday (3 ewes 6yr old, 3yr old and 3 week old. And 1 ram yearling) None of them were handled often so we are starting fresh and earning trust. They are all either uninterested in us or are gentle when we do get to handle them. The ram is well mannered so far and I hope to keep him that way. So no head petting... what other big no-no's are there that we are missing?


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## CritterZone (Apr 11, 2013)

We raise Jacob Sheep so everything has horns - most of them have four.   A horn is not an ear - they don't have pain receptors in their horns so grabbing them by the horns isn't going to cause them pain.  With the ewes we almost never handle them by the horns, but occasionally, it is the best option.  The ram - well, the best way to control him is by his horns.  Once you have his head, you usually have his attention.  And I would much rather have hold of his horns so that he can't swing them at me.   He is not a pet, so we really don't spend any time petting him or loving on him.  He is respectful - we give him his space and he has not shown any aggressive tendencies.  He doesn't like to butt stuff with his head, so we keep wood rounds and plastic barrels in the pasture for him to beat up.  It seems to keep him peaceful.  




This is a yearling Ram.  His sires top horns are nearly 3 feet tall, so his could still get a lot bigger.


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## SheepGirl (Apr 11, 2013)

thestewarts said:
			
		

> I just read through all this. We brought our new sheep home yesterday (3 ewes 6yr old, 3yr old and 3 week old. And 1 ram yearling) None of them were handled often so we are starting fresh and earning trust. They are all either uninterested in us or are gentle when we do get to handle them. The ram is well mannered so far and I hope to keep him that way. So no head petting... what other big no-no's are there that we are missing?


Raising a ram lamb:
* Do not let him climb on you, nibble at your shirt, or bite at your fingers.
* Do not pet him on the top of his head. You can however, scratch his brisket and his back. 90% of sheep love their brisket scratched and will start licking you.
* Do not play any headbutting 'games' with him (ie pushing your hand against the top of his head)--he will think you are still up for that 'game' when he is an adult.
* Get him used to his feet being touched.
* Do not try to 'dominate' your ram lamb, ie throw him to the ground and hold him there for a couple seconds. He may try to challenge your dominance in the future as he matures and hits puberty. This may be safe to do to a mature ram, however you must remind him of it the start of every breeding season.

Dealing with mature rams:
* Do not let him climb on you.
* Do not pet the top of his head.
* Do not let him rub his head on you...he may see you as an itch reliever (much like a tree or a fence post) and he may hurt you.
* If/when you pet him, do not come from above his head--he will think this is an attack and move his head defensively and he will probably back up a little bit, but then walk up to you. If you keep doing it he will eventually ram into you. Approach him with your hand at his eye level or below.
* Try to avoid hand feeding. Like a bucket, if a ram sees the bucket/your hand (whatever he eats out of), he will run at you, try to get to the feed as best as he can (knocking at the bucket with the top of his head or nudging at your hand)....when he realizes your hand doesn't have any feed, he will probably walk forward which may make your hand rub the top of his head if you aren't careful. And since he's already mad that you don't have any feed he may think of the head touching as a challenge and try to attack you.

AND always, always keep an eye on your ram when you are in the same pen or field as him. And NEVER let someone your ram doesn't know in the same enclosure with him especially if they are smaller than the ram or have no experience handling rams. Personally with my ram, I feel safe with him on the other side of the field, but I feel very uncomfortable when he is following me. I have resorted to just throwing his hay over the fence instead of going in and putting it in his hay feeder because he is starting to get an attitude. Also when I go in there with him (or let other people in there with me), I always make sure to put a halter on him to have at least some control over his head movement. He has hit me from the side at a stand still position though and did leave a bruise on my thigh.

Just because rams are smaller than boars or bulls does not make them any less dangerous  They are still a 200+ lb hard headed force coming at you at a couple miles an hour that can knock you off your feet and leave you completely vulnerable and helpless. They do not think of the consequences of attacking their shepherd ahead of time unless you've taught them with a water gun, cattle prod, BB gun, smack across the nose, etc. Even still it doesn't work all of the time.


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## bcnewe2 (Apr 11, 2013)

What a beautiful Jacob ram! 

I don't handle my ram if i can help it. I do use trained stock dogs to move my sheep anywhere so I guess I have a big advantage.  

But when keeping a ram separate from his ladies I always try to give him a friend, like a young wether to keep him company.  

My rams tend to only get nasty when their ladies are ready and they can't get to them. Other wise they seem to be content to eat and laze around.

If I didn't have a dog and needed to move my ram to a close by paddock, I'd get him used to a bucket that I feed grain out of. Let him see me dump some grain in a feeder where I wanted him to go and then let him go.  

I've also used a stock stick that if waved in the corner of his eye (doesn't have to be really close to the eye just catch his sight out of the corner) will make him move off, usually.  But a ram intent on getting to his lady friends would not be one I want to deal with unless I have one of the dogs.

I have had rams come at me in a butting way. I usually carry a thin stock stick with me. With no dog, I will wamp the ram on the side of the face (not lightly but not in a manner that can do damage either) and they get the message.  If you hit them on the top of the head or on the nose, they take it as a challenge and will come back at you if they are in the mood!

Looking at all the pictures of beautiful Jacob sheep makes me want to get some.
What are the benefits of Jacob sheep?  Besides their beautiful horns.  I've never had horned sheep, can you harvest the horns with the sheep alive or is it something you get after the sheep dies?


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Apr 11, 2013)

patandchickens said:
			
		

> I would think sheep would be to some extent to, but I do not speak sheep. Anyone want to give me some basic tips here, aside from "if you approach too close they run away" which I have already figured out thanks ?
> 
> Pat


*

 Bwaaahhaaahhaaa!!!  I just got sheep, have had them for three days now. This is the FIRST thing I learned!!! *


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## boothcreek (Apr 11, 2013)

Around here you seem to hear a lot about evil Rams, I have 6 right now, all horned and I have not had a mean one yet(but then again none of mine are bottle raised and 75% of the mean ones I met were). I dont pay attention to them unless they approach me, and that is usually just to check if I have treats(so let them sniff my hands or check the bucket -if I have one-) and then they mosey off and treat me like I am part of the landscape.
Love the fact that I dont have to worry about turning my back on them, they couldn't give a damn. Dinked around with their electric fence for a few hours last weekend and except for the first curious look to see what I am doing, they all lazed around ignoring me.
Of course I know these boys really well, and I have met my share of mean(polled) Rams and I see how they react to eachother when one ticked off another, there is a tension and a focus to their body language that means TROUBLE. You can see the wheels turning. None of mine have shown any such body-language towards me yet, and some of these rams I had for 4-5 yrs now.

Yes horned rams dislike their horns touched, mainly because if something is touching the horns there is a chance to get caught and stuck on something so instinct tells them to avoid it at all costs unless its for fighting with another ram. I use that to train my boys to keep their distance when following me at lock-up, if they follow too close and try to check if they can reach the grain-bucket I just tap them on the horn with my hand which gets them to move out of reach real quick. In their mind there is some sort of barrier surrounding me that will possibly catch on their horns if they come to close into my space.

They still come up to take treats out of my hands, even tho I use their horns as handles when I catch them. As long as I dont make the tell-tale reach for their head-gear they are not at all head-shy.

I socialize with my boys a lot, it mainly being me grabbing a bucket and sitting in their pen reading and letting them check me out and then go do their business with me sitting there. Oddly enough they do seem to draw some sort of comfort from my presents since they will usually bed down around me. Same when they are free ranging, if I am out and about they will gravitate towards hanging out around me without being obvious about it. My Ewe group does that too so I think they just feel safer near a person...
I dont encourage touching with my sheep, as long as I can come within close proximity of them without them being nervous I am happy. My mouflons for example will take grain from me or eat less then 2 feet from where I'm sitting, with such wild sheep that is fantastic. I find petting blurrs the boundaries to your personal space which can be hard to grasp for sheep etc.


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## bonbean01 (Apr 11, 2013)

This is an old thread and it was interesting to read what I posted way back then about our ram.  Our second ram that I posted about was Watson, a ram lamb.  We did all the right things with him since we did all the wrong things with our first one and he got dangerous.  So...did it by the book and all was fine until he got close to 2 years old and it began...ramming us hard...water pistol worked at first...then not...carrying a large stick worked about a week...then resorted to a kid's BBgun...one shot to the butt worked the first time and then we only had to carry it and rattle the BBs in it for him to hear and that worked about a month...he got worse and worse with us and began ramming the shelter walls when we were out of there.  

I do believe the problem here is our whole sheep set up...we have them all in a large dry paddock with their shelters and hay during the night, every night and in the winter when there is no grass in the pasture and during bad weather.  If we had more acres and more space, it might not be a problem.  We in too close contact with rams too much...they are in the paddock at night because of predators.  For this kind of set up I think it is just a matter of time before ram problems start...or...we've picked bad rams?  

Since a BBgun is not the way we wish to raise any animal, Watson had to go.  This spring we bought another ram lamb and are hoping for different results with him, although it is the same set up.  If things go wrong this time, we may have to just adjust to the fact that we have replace our ram every 2 years.


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## CritterZone (Apr 11, 2013)

Our first ram was mean - vicious even - but he was like that when we brought him home.  You couldn't turn your back on him, you couldn't trust him with the lambs, and even my Australian Cattle Dog gave him plenty of space.  I don't know what made him like that, but we were not willing to keep an animal around that mean, so he went off to slaughter.  None of his get were like that, so I think it was the way he was handled.  We bought our current ram at 6 months old.  We only handle him when we need to - sheering (which we need to do), vaccinating, and recently, treating him for pink eye.  He is respectful of our space, and we are not trying to make him a pet.  We don't direct their travel often, but we use the grain bucket when we need them to be somewhere and it works well.  

We have a German Shorthair Pointer who is starting to get the hang of herding the sheep and putting them away at night.  I guess that makes sense because it is the Cattle Dog who retrieves the water fowl off the pond during goose season


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## thestewarts (Apr 12, 2013)

All of our sheep are very skittish right now. Except the 3 week old baby... she was part time bottle fed they said because they wanted her to be more social. The ram seems pretty submissive for now and the mama sheep seems like the protector (obviously... she has a baby). We have a german shepherd and a pug. The shepherd is already doing pretty well at moving them around if we need to but he is respectful of them and keeps back. Mama sheep has butted both dogs a couple times when they got too close. 

Does everyone keep their ram separate from their ewes? We only have the 4 sheep (and chickens and dogs) and we likely wont get any or many more for a while. They were all penned together at their last place. We can keep him separate but I think he might be happier to stay with the girls.


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## SheepGirl (Apr 12, 2013)

thestewarts said:
			
		

> All of our sheep are very skittish right now. Except the 3 week old baby... she was part time bottle fed they said because they wanted her to be more social. The ram seems pretty submissive for now and the mama sheep seems like the protector (obviously... she has a baby). We have a german shepherd and a pug. The shepherd is already doing pretty well at moving them around if we need to but he is respectful of them and keeps back. Mama sheep has butted both dogs a couple times when they got too close.
> 
> Does everyone keep their ram separate from their ewes? We only have the 4 sheep (and chickens and dogs) and we likely wont get any or many more for a while. They were all penned together at their last place. We can keep him separate but I think he might be happier to stay with the girls.


You said you don't want any more for a while...so I take that to mean you don't want to breed any, either, right? If so you will need to separate them. I have four ewes and a ram plus their lambs, but my ram is currently separate from my ewes and he will stay separated until October. He is perfectly fine having the run of the field...I'm not sure how happy he'll be when I pen him up though and let the ewes have the field


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## boothcreek (Apr 12, 2013)

thestewarts said:
			
		

> Does everyone keep their ram separate from their ewes? We only have the 4 sheep (and chickens and dogs) and we likely wont get any or many more for a while. They were all penned together at their last place. We can keep him separate but I think he might be happier to stay with the girls.


I usually dont unless I see body condition issues with the ewes, mine are non-seasonal breeders(except the mouflons) so they come right back into heat 4-6 weeks after giving birth.  This spring I seperated the boys since 1 ewe(which has had 2 sets of twins and 1 of triplets in a year and a half) really needed a break for at least a few months, also rebreeding when she came back into heat would have put the next set of lambs in August which is flippin hot here and hard on the heavily pregnant girls.

If you want to have control as to when your lambs get born, I would seperate him and get a wether as a buddy for him. I know my Rams would be miserable if penned alone.


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## thestewarts (Apr 12, 2013)

We do plan to breed... I meant not bringing in any new animals in.


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## secuono (Apr 12, 2013)

My ram is very nice, I don't have or see him get frustrated and angry like you do, since I have him with his girls 24/7. Mine are seasonal breeders.

I also have horses, they taught the sheep to move away when the horse stomps or aggressively comes towards them. So I just stomp my foot when I don't like what a sheep is doing.

Moving sheep is easy, moving ducks is the same as moving sheep. I have a 1/2" cpvc 10ft pipe I use to herd them where I want. You just can't push and be as close with sheep than ducks, sheep won't stick super close or run back to each other as nicely as ducks will.


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## CritterZone (Apr 13, 2013)

thestewarts said:
			
		

> All of our sheep are very skittish right now. Except the 3 week old baby... she was part time bottle fed they said because they wanted her to be more social. The ram seems pretty submissive for now and the mama sheep seems like the protector (obviously... she has a baby). We have a german shepherd and a pug. The shepherd is already doing pretty well at moving them around if we need to but he is respectful of them and keeps back. Mama sheep has butted both dogs a couple times when they got too close.
> 
> Does everyone keep their ram separate from their ewes? We only have the 4 sheep (and chickens and dogs) and we likely wont get any or many more for a while. They were all penned together at their last place. We can keep him separate but I think he might be happier to stay with the girls.


We keep our ram with our ewes year round since we want to have marketable lambs year round.  This summer we are going to split our flock because we are keeping some of our ewe lambs and one of our ram lambs for breeding.  We are very lucky to have a lot of land and several outbuildings so we have room to spread them out.

Both of our dogs and my husband have been butted pretty hard for getting too close to new lambs and not heeding the warning.  I'm glad our ewes are so protective - it is definitely a trait I want to see.  A ewe that won't protect her lambs probably won't stay around here for more than one lambing season.


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## thestewarts (Apr 18, 2013)

So our sheep are getting more comfortable around us and they come to check us out occassionally as we are working in the pasture or yard. Right now the most friendly is our ram. We found his sweet spot on accident the other day. It's very strange because he will stand there all day and let you rub his chin and throat... it nearly puts him to sleep. He is food motivated but he is a gentlman about it and will leave so the girls can get a snack too if you nudge him off. All the sheep really like my 2 year old (probably because she is her size) and it's been a good lession in patience for her. Are we going to create a monster (and by monster I mean dangerous... I don't care if he comes to see if we have food or follows us around) by petting him and hand feeding him snacks?


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## bcnewe2 (Apr 18, 2013)

I sure wouldn't let my grand daughter sit that close to a rams head with horns or not.  He might be fine now but he's a ram, they ram, that's what they do.
When his ladies come into estrus he's going to change.
Please be careful with that precious little girl!
Don't mean to be rude, just scares the bejebus  out of me to see that little girl so close to a rams head!


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## bonbean01 (Apr 18, 2013)

I totally agree!!!!!  Would not let my grand babies do that either...just not worth the risk...and I'm not being rude either, just concerned for your darling daughter.


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## Canadiannee (Apr 18, 2013)

oh... big thick horns on that boy! No matter how wonderfully friendly this ram may be, I'm still not sure I'd trust him around such a young child... moreso that head-to-head close. It's awfully sweet to see a beautiful little girl sharing a special moment with an animal... but even the sweetest natured animal is controlled by instincts, and can be totally unpredictable.

Just last year we had my son's horse nip a 5 year old child giving him 3 stitches to his eyebrow...  This horse is not mean by any means, the child's parent had food in his hand, the child walked around the horse like he was taught to do, but came in beside the horse's neck, and the horse swung it's head in warning like it would do to another horse who was coming into it's space... unfortunately, the wee lad's face was there. Would I have expected Summer to do this... nope, she came to us as a foal and was raised and trained by our then 12 year old son, and is use to children... do I know she's capable of doing this.... YES of course I do! She's a horse of course, of course, of course! 

Nice looking ram though, and such a beautiful daughter!


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## perchie.girl (Apr 18, 2013)

I agree with everyone on this.....  and I dont have sheep at all.   I am hear to learn about them.      I have had horses for 47 years.   

With any livestock it just takes a moment... a flick of a head... a sound from somewhere to cause alarm....  even the most gentle easy going animal has the potential for danger for a small child.    Let them pet through a fence with supervision meaning you have a hand on the child.    If you want to let them feed Have them drop the food in a bucket set down on the other side of the fence.

I don't even allow any one to hand feed my own horse.  Not even carrots.  Its too much of a liability.  My mare is VERY food motivated she weighs 2000 lbs One foot stepped forward to lean in toward that treat can smoosh a human foot flat.  She knows better but food makes her forget.  

deb


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## Beekissed (Jun 12, 2013)

I agree with the rest....makes me cringe to see that delicate little head so close to those hard horns.  One flick of the head to get rid of a fly and that face is crushed, through no meanness of the ram at all.  Teeth busted out, if you're lucky, skull or jaw fracture if you are not.  

With children and animals it's a big responsibility to teach them wariness about situations without instilling irrational fears.  A ram is sweet and moochy one day and can kill a person the next...the male animal is unpredictable and can not be counted upon to mind youngsters and their little bodies.  

All us country folk know too many horror stories about bottle fed or hand fed rams, stallions, roosters, goats and especially cattle....makes our blood turn cold to see those two heads so close together.  Put a strong fence between them and then let her feed and scratch him between the slats...she's much too precious to chance it.


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