# Escape goat



## Hykue (Aug 1, 2010)

Ok, so I know that the title simply describes a capability of nearly every goat, but I'm hoping someone can tell me if I can expect this for the rest of her natural life . . . I got two goats a week ago, from two different breeders.  One of them used to live here, as she belonged to the previous owners of the house (this is Dot).  The other one was a bottle baby (this is Dash).  Dot is eight and Dash is just over one year old.  The fencing here kept in a herd of 14 or so goats for a few years.  Just for safety and less probability of escape, I kept the goats in the smaller upper pasture, where the fence is the most sound.  It's page wire, with small logs across the top, from 5 to 6 feet tall.

Dash escaped two nights ago while we were walking our dogs.  She came down the driveway to meet us as we were on our way home.  She doesn't have any interest in escaping and running amok, only in escaping and finding her humans.  I think that she is sure she is a human and can't figure out why we keep locking her in a pen with only a goat for company.  The place that she escaped (as I deduced from the trail in the grass) was the only part of the fence that didn't have page wire, but it had rails spaced 6-12 inches apart.  Thinking she might have crawled through, I put up page wire over this section.  She didn't get out all day yesterday, leading me to believe that I had found the solution.  Then in the evening, at about the same time as the previous night, she escaped again.  I put her back in the pen and walked back out of sight to watch where she was getting out.  By the time I turned around and looked, she was about 20 feet behind me.  I put her back in the pen and tried to get behind the barn, where I figured she was coming from, but I was too slow.  I came to the house and asked my mother-in-law to hide behind the barn and watch where she got out when I put her back in the pen.  She was climbing the bit of fence that I had fixed, which has a slight lean.  I have never actually built a fence, so I hoped we could fix it by leaning poles against it that overhang the pen, providing a visual barrier and some physical barrier.  We did that this morning.  Within 5 minutes she was out again.

I have a couple of questions.

1) Will she ever accept Dot as being an acceptable herd?  She was living in a large herd of goats, far away from the house at her last place.  She seemed very happy to see humans whenever she did, but as far as I know she wasn't trekking up to the house.  In fact, they specifically mentioned that she hadn't ever been up in their yard.

2) Will she calm down some once she has her own kids?  I'm planning to breed them both in the fall.

3) What can I do about this?  I have her locked in the barn right now, because I don't want her to learn that when she escapes she gets to stay out.  Also, I have two dogs here right now that think that deer (and therefore goats) are for chasing.  I'm training the dogs, but they're not there yet.  

My immediate options, as I see them, are these:

A) Keep Dash in the barn except when I can stay in the pasture with her.  I'm not too fond of this one, because I have other things to do, and I'm afraid it would reinforce her belief that she should be by my side at all times.

B) Put up a taller section of fence, which doesn't lean, where she's been escaping.  This doesn't solve the problem of her trying to escape, but does cut off one avenue of escape.

C) Put up electric just inside the page wire.  This won't be possible for two more days when I can get to the store, and it will be kind of expensive, but the main problem with it is that I don't want to have a system that requires a constant input of electricity.  Also, I don't think that it would stop her desire to escape, it would just make it unpleasant to try.

D) Somehow make her not want to come and find the humans - maybe if she had a herdmate from her previous herd, instead of big mean Dot who butts and bites her, and who she doesn't know, then she would be more interested in staying with the herdmate than coming and finding the humans.  The problem with this plan is that I only wanted to buy two goats, and then breed them for my future herd.  I don't want more than three or four milkers, maximum, and I might have a hard time figuring out what to do with the kids even if I have just three.  Also, I'm not sure it would work.

E) Return Dash to the breeder and trade her in for a LESS friendly goat?  This one just seems silly, and I'm not even sure they'd take her back, I probably wouldn't if I were them.  I guess I will at least call them and ask for their advice, too.

Are there F's and G's that I haven't thought of?  Any suggestions about which of these you would do?  I thought a bottle baby would be easier to work with, and in some ways she is (I can lead her right up to my dog to work on my dog training), but I can't constantly have her with me, or constantly be battling to keep her in.

Thanks for any input!


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## Mea (Aug 1, 2010)

Hykue said:
			
		

> C) Put up electric just inside the page wire.  This won't be possible for two more days when I can get to the store, and it will be kind of expensive, but the main problem with it is that I don't want to have a system that requires a constant input of electricity.  Also, I don't think that it would stop her desire to escape, it would just make it unpleasant to try


C gets my vote.   Taught that the fence Will bite her... she will decide  it is no fun to get zapped.   And there are other additions that can help with the unpleasantness of getting zapped.

   We have a solar powered fence charger and it has served us for several years.  DH also does not like running the electricity any more than necessary, so i saved up for it and purchased it myself.


   Personally, i would not want to make it unpleasant for her to "come to humans" as in choice D.  that could backfire in the future.

  Good luck.


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## Calliopia (Aug 1, 2010)

TSC has a 3 mile solar charger for about 99.00.  If you can get one of their coupons you can bring the price down to 90 or so.  


My guys are in a big U of chain link with a single strand of electric around the top. Then to enclose the U shape I have 4 strands of electric that go straight across. I have the 3 mile charger above and love it.


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## freemotion (Aug 1, 2010)

Electric!  A plug-in charger really uses very little power.

If she is escaping so easily, others will, too.  Also, it is well-established in her mind that there really is NO fence, just a minor inconvenience.  She won't unlearn that, even if you make it unpleasant for her by locking her up after an escape.

Also remember that fencing not only needs to keep your animals in, but also needs to keep predators out.  Electric will at least make a dog think twice.  I had a ginormous labrador climb my fence and hit the electric wire with his face....you could hear the yiping for quite a distance!  He never climbed again....in fact, if he came to see me through the fence at that section, he would sit his butt down (he was an ill-behaved, untrained neighbor's dog) and stay like a well-trained dog.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Aug 1, 2010)

i'm on the electric bandwagon.. i found my best milker hanging from her udder one morning and we installed a charger that afternoon.

she hasnt even tried it since she got the zap. 

actually for most of the winter we had it off and they didnt even try to get out. 

i love that:
1. you asked your MIL to hide behind the fence!
2. their names: dot and dash!

as far as your questions:

1. probably, but there might be some more fighting
2. probably not
3. electric fence as above

think of it this way - if she keeps getting out sooner or later your dogs will corner her. and she is probably more valuable than the $150 you'll spend protecting all the goaties. 

i'm not sure i would over think the "she wants to be with humans" thing..i think she is just curious what is going on around her. 

good luck!
ps and yes goats are frustrating.


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## Hykue (Aug 1, 2010)

Thanks for the input.  I thought about it myself today throughout the day, and electric fence does seem to be the best option by far.  I'm glad to have the support for that decision.  I still have to figure out what kind, but that will be partially dependent on what they have at the farm store in town.  The information that I've found indicates that the power usage might be around 75 cents a month, which is such a piddling amount I couldn't possibly balk at it.

As to the wanting to be with humans part, I swear I'm not imagining it.  She is calm, quiet and happy, no matter what noises or events are around her, as long as I (or my mother-in-law, or my friend who was here visiting) am nearby - in the pen.  As soon as we leave, she frantically runs up and down the fence, bleating piteously or panicky.  The first day she was panting so hard in the sun that I thought she might get heat stroke.  When she escapes, she walks around bleating until she sees a human, and then makes a beeline for them.  If she has to choose to follow me or Dot, she always chooses me.  Dot, on the other hand, is interested only in food.  This is more the kind of behavior I was expecting - she thinks I'm okay, but only because I seem to have a stash of pea shells and grain.  Anyway, it's nice to feel loved! 

As to the names, I'm glad you like them!  Dot was already named, on account of she's got a big black dot on her white side.  I was trying to think of some clever name for the younger one (and failing miserably), and told my husband about it, and he instantly came up with Dash.  I think it's a great name, and now she's escaping to prove it's also appropriate for her personality.  I will post pictures in a different thread.


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## ()relics (Aug 2, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Electric!  A plug-in charger really uses very little power.
> 
> If she is escaping so easily, others will, too.  Also, it is well-established in her mind that there really is NO fence, just a minor inconvenience.  She won't unlearn that, even if you make it unpleasant for her by locking her up after an escape.
> 
> Also remember that fencing not only needs to keep your animals in, but also needs to keep predators out.  Electric will at least make a dog think twice.  I had a ginormous labrador climb my fence and hit the electric wire with his face....you could hear the yiping for quite a distance!  He never climbed again....in fact, if he came to see me through the fence at that section, he would sit his butt down (he was an ill-behaved, untrained neighbor's dog) and stay like a well-trained dog.


I am going to agree to this verbatim, which I almost never do....But I would add;  Now that your goat has learned it can get through the fence, you may have to select a larger fence charger for a "hotter" wire.  Electric fences work on the principle that an animal has learned that the fence will "hurt" it if they are too close.  After an animal has learned this it doesn't matter if the fence charger is plugged in or not because the animal knows it has to stay away.  In your case the doe "expects" to be able to get through the fence and may only be moderately annoyed by a weaker, less hot wire.  She may actually run through the fence when she gets her first shock because she _knows_ she can  get away.   But a big charger with, maybe 2 hot wires at 6 and 12" will slow her down enough so the fence can shock her in the nose so she will turn around and run back into the pasture instead of through the wire.  Once she gets the idea she probably will only "test" the wire once in a while, just to make sure what she "knows" is still true.  Now this may sound cruel but it is for her safety.  if she contiues to get through even the hot wire, you can hang several pieces of ribbon or yarn from the wire strands.  No Goat can resist tasting a piece if colorful ribbon....Now you have shown her the fence.  Once she is trained to the fence her kids should be as well, providing they are raised in the pasture with the electric fence. JMO


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## ohiofarmgirl (Aug 2, 2010)

> No Goat can resist tasting a piece if colorful ribbon...


or someone told me peanut butter. but really - they'll find it. there might be a lot of hoppin' and poppin' about and some snortin' and stompin' but she'll be just fine. 

;-)


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## sammileah (Aug 2, 2010)

i use chainlink and ele.  but my doe slips out anyspace her head will fit thru.  at least once a week i find her in my garden, green beans are her fav.  slowly i'm finding all the spots


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## Calliopia (Aug 3, 2010)

If I still had my escape artist I would have 5 strands of electric inside a 6ft high chain link.  She could climb anything and would just take the hit from the rope.  She learned she could lift the rope w/ her horns. So she would pick up the third strand on top of her horns,  scoot most of her body through the opening and then let it roll off the back of her head. She'd just take the zott on the ass on her way out the door.  Evil, nasty, rotten, darling girl that she was.     However once she was out... she just hung around until she decided she was on the wrong side of the fence again and crossed back over.


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## Hykue (Aug 4, 2010)

I have another question.  I got an energizer larger than I currently need, as I plan to install high-tensile electric when I get the chance.  For now, I have "el cheapo" polywire and step-in posts.  The total length of fence is very very short (maybe 500 ft).  I will add to this as I have time, but I really don't want to keep my goats locked in the barn anymore.  The charger is rated for 100 miles . . . yeah, I know, it's overkill.  Which brings me to my question.  

The charger says it's putting out 15.5 kV or so - and my fence tester is off the chart (which ends at 5000 V).  Is this going to actually KILL my goat?  I really don't want to stop her sweet little heart, I just want to keep her in the fence.  I understand that they're low amperage, so maybe it's safe, but I can't find anywhere online that tells me if it's safe or not.  I just wanted more information before I expose her to it.


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## Hykue (Aug 4, 2010)

It appears that cmjust0 has answered my question in the Hi-tensile thread.  "No such thing as too much voltage, especially for a goat," because fences are such low amperage.  Thanks!


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## glenolam (Aug 4, 2010)

Yes, he sure did.  My high tensile fence cranked out well over 6000v and didn't kill the kids - goat or people kids!


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## cmjust0 (Aug 4, 2010)

Hykue said:
			
		

> The total length of fence is very very short (maybe 500 ft).  I will add to this as I have time, but I really don't want to keep my goats locked in the barn anymore.  The charger is rated for 100 miles . . . yeah, I know, it's overkill.  Which brings me to my question.
> 
> The charger says it's putting out 15.5 kV or so - and my fence tester is off the chart (which ends at 5000 V).  Is this going to actually KILL my goat?


Kill a goat?  No.
Make me super jealous?  Absolutely.

In fact, you have my vote for "Goatkeeper of the Week."



FWIW...if you've ever been unlucky enough to have held onto a spark plug while someone cranked an engine, you've been subjected to about 20kV, or somewhere thereabout..  It makes you _think_ you may have died for a few seconds, followed by a _desire_ to die -- or to kill someone, depending on the situation -- but you don't _actually_ die..  You just learn, really quickly, to neverevereverever do that again.


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## Hykue (Aug 4, 2010)

I swear, this forum hates me . . . I already typed a response, and it disappeared into the ether.  I'm pretty sure I'm hitting submit and not preview . . . But this is the second time this has happened.

Anyway.  Basically, I said:

Thanks for the responses.  Goatkeeper of the week!  Hooboy!  I might not win, but thanks for the vote!

I got the fence all finished (for now) and took my goats down to the good pasture for half an hour, then went back up to the "holding pen" which is mostly just grass (3 foot tall grass . . .) and hung out.  I wanted to watch and be sure everything went all right for the first encounter with the fence.  Nearly immediately, Dash sniffed the fence.  "MUUU-AH!", she yelled.  I felt like a bit of a jerk.  I decided to stay a bit longer, and she sniffed the fence in two more places, with the same "MUUU-AH!" in response each time.  Dot seemed a bit confused, ("What's biting Dash?") but then she saw that it was the fence biting Dash.  I suspect that Dot learned by just watching Dash - and I hope I'm right, because she hasn't shown any sign of trying to escape.  After about half an hour with no further fence-testing on Dash's part, I decided it was time for the true test.  I left the pen.  Previously, this led to her climbing the fence within about 15 seconds.  This time, it took 5 minutes before I heard "MUUU-AH!"  In the twenty minutes after that, I heard two more, interspersed with her regular "Ma-a-a-a".  After that, I only heard the regular ones.

I think I'm glad there are 14-15 kV on that fence, because she still touched it six times.  I'm not sure she understood what was happening for the first three, but she chose to touch it, knowing the consequences, for the last three.  Hopefully now she will start to get to know Dot and make a goat friend.  They did play together yesterday morning in the barn - queen of the milkstand, with jumping and fast turns and gentle butting.  So I think they're making progress.

Now, to make an impenetrable Hi-tensile goatie pen.  And after that, a combination tower/climbing wall (the former for the goats, the latter for the humans).


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