# Sheep and dogs! Help please



## Girlies' Mum (Jan 20, 2018)

I am about to get a very cute new Labrador retriever puppy who will be nine weeks old when she arrives. We don't have LGDs here in the UK as we don't have any serious predators, so it is not common for dogs to need to be left unsupervised with sheep. (Sheepdogs usually have their owner yelling at them).
My query is:  
I have 4 beloved pet sheep and would love it if my new dog could settle in and be reliably safe to leave outside with the sheep  e.g. while they are earning their keep mowing the "lawn" etc. in the summer. I guess you LGD owners must be complete experts at ensuring your LGDs are sheep/other livestock friendly, unless I am misunderstanding the way they work. Do you have any tips for me when I am training my new pup to make it as safe as possible for her to be with my sheep?  My last beautiful dog (sadly passed recently) was generally quite good, but I never left them alone as a few times a year she would unexpectedly chase the littlest sheep round the yard, I think as a weird kind of doggie joke... Any advice would be much appreciated.


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## Latestarter (Jan 20, 2018)

IMHO, you are dealing with a dog that is naturally born a retriever, not normally a high prey drive/chase type animal. They generally are working dogs that retrieve what you kill/shoot/throw for them, when YOU tell them to do so. Of course any/all dogs have the ability and can have the chase mentality. Normally this is more predominant with smaller animals like rabbits, squirrels, cats, etc. You'd have to ask the breeder you're getting the dog from about heritage and parentage and their experiences.

I grew up with black labs and german shepherds. I've owned several golden retrievers (as well as the GSDs) and they were great "family" pets. None of them were high prey drive, chase down and "play with/kill" other animals. The best way to stop any of this type behavior is to raise the new pup with the animals so it associates them as family. This is especially important as a new pup. When you go out to visit with your sheep, bring the pup with you so they can become familiar with each other. You will need to teach the sheep not to beat up on the pup as well as teach the pup that she shouldn't chase the sheep. Ideally you want the sheep to not be afraid of the dog (run away). You can have her on leash initially until you've trained her to come/sit/stay, and then on a long lead after that to give her some room to learn and experience but still have the ability to "reach out" and grab her to stop unwanted behavior.

I'm excited for you as I loved my golden retrievers (all my dogs actually)! Labs of all types are such awesome family/friendly dogs.   Hope you'll share some pics when you get her  Congrats!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 20, 2018)

Obedience training... it really is that simple. Obedience training develops the strongest of bonds between human/dog. The dog in turn will do what is pleasing to you because the relationship is well developed.A well trained dog is a happy dog.

I am not a believer in replacement/redirection training. 
Loathe training with treats or food. It is unnecessary. 
Praise and relationship is reward.

My favorite trainer of all time is Winifred Strickland owner of the famous Wynthea Kennels.
One of her books has been reprinted many times and hopefully hasn't been altered from it's original. Original writing 1969! Has been revised over and over.

Search for-
_Expert Obedience Training for Dogs _ by Winifred Gibson Strickland


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## babsbag (Jan 20, 2018)

I hate training with treats too but I didn't know that when I starting training my Border Collies for agility. They would run the entire course watching for my hand to pull a treat out of the bag. Now they are so food driven it is literally annoying. And if I don't have a treat to give them they suddenly lose their ability to hear. I probably won't ever train another puppy but if I did it wouldn't be with treats.


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## Baymule (Jan 20, 2018)

Labs are awesome dogs. We have a black Lab/Great Dane mix that is the best dog ever. He loves the sheep, but the Great Pyrenees would take his head off if he got near them LOL. 

What Latestarter said. Take the pup with you, scold when necessary, praise a lot.


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## Girlies' Mum (Jan 21, 2018)

Thanks so much everyone for your encouragement and good suggestions. Its kind of what I thought, which is why I posted before I even got her. She will be out helping me from day 1(well, she might still be in my arms, but she will meet them). Point taken also re treats - My last dog got very treat orientated (there were certain set places on walks where she simply stopped and demanded a treat, but she was 14 so I forgave her) and it would be nice not to have such a dependence on them. Will also try to find the book you mention. And the sheep will indeed have to learn too. They are not above a good head butt, if only out of curiosity.


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## Girlies' Mum (Jan 21, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Obedience training... it really is that simple. Obedience training develops the strongest of bonds between human/dog. The dog in turn will do what is pleasing to you because the relationship is well developed.A well trained dog is a happy dog.
> 
> I am not a believer in replacement/redirection training.
> Loathe training with treats or food. It is unnecessary.
> ...


Have ordered it from Amazon!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 21, 2018)

Girlies' Mum said:


> Have ordered it from Amazon!



That's great.  
Many years ago I had hoped to get one of her GSD's. It never happened, for me but I had a client who did.
She was a remarkable woman!


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 21, 2018)

I have a lab mix that we had before we ever had goats she was around 3 years old when we got them
She has been with the bucks for years now
At our old place we put her with the bucks not so much as a LGD but more as a predator deterint 
Now we have a GP male that she is in one of our buck fields with
Now he's the guardian and she is his companion
We thought we were going to retire her this year in she kind of struggled with heat and flies this summer but she was totally miserable in the house and missed Marvel so much
She is a great farm dog and doesn't really snap at the bucks even when they try to mount her when they are in rut
I agree with @Latestarter I think the retriever breeds do better with livestock than some other Non LGD breeds 
They are just so smart and easy to train and very eager to please their human


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## Girlies' Mum (Jan 22, 2018)

Thank you one fine acre - that is really encouraging.


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## Beekissed (Jan 24, 2018)

I agree with Southern...obedience training and that bond will be all you really need. Everything else stems from that.  Labs are VERY eager to please, loyal, obedient and smart dogs...my favorite breed of all time.  Easy to train, a lifetime of good memories.  

My Lab/Border Collie mix dog had not an ounce of problem when I introduced sheep, even with the herding genes thrown in, because he had already received obedience training and already worked well with chickens.  

One day, when the sheep had been here for many months,  I saw him chasing the sheep around the garden fence and started to run to the window, with much anger in my mouth already....then saw the next second's action.  The dog stopped, crouched down, the sheep had stopped and faced him.  Then the chase was on once again...except they were chasing him BACK around the garden this time!  

This game happened every evening of their lives together, while my LGD breed dog watched on with much disdain.   She clearly thought these games were beneath a dog's dignity to engage in.  Seemed like every evening they all felt their oats and had to have their game of tag in order to settle in for the night...it never got old to watch.  

They were good friends all the while I had the sheep.

I wish you well with your pup and sheep and I expect good things, especially if you undertake your obedience training first and all the while you are introducing it to the sheep.  It's a great opportunity to use the sheep as a distraction during your training so you can correct him/her on it in a real life situation.  Got to keep their focus on you, not on the distractions that abound.


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## Girlies' Mum (Jan 25, 2018)

Thank you so much for your advice and reassurance Beekissed. I will do my best with the training!


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## Beekissed (Jan 25, 2018)

Please let us know how it all goes?  I'd love to hear all about it....Labs own a special place in my heart and I find them to be one of the most versatile breeds, especially as farm and family dogs.


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## Girlies' Mum (Feb 16, 2018)

This is Poppy, 9 weeks old, my new house mate white lab She is such a star, has slept all night in her crate since I got her and chews everything. I have introduced her to the sheep daily, holding her in my arms as I can't put her down yet as she is not fully immunised. 3 of the 4 sheep have come over to touch noses and today she licked my littlest Shetland's nose, who responded by trying to head but her (fairly gently!) through the fence. Woody (the Shetland) kept coming back for more though, so I think he was being friendly and wanted to play (he is a 10 month old wether). I think it will be OK. haven't managed to get a nice pic of her with the sheep yet but here she is. Training has commenced....


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## Mike CHS (Feb 16, 2018)

She is a cutie and already has that serious look.


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## Mike CHS (Feb 16, 2018)

She is a cutie and already has that serious look.


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## Baymule (Feb 16, 2018)

I love Labs! They are the best dogs ever! What a beautiful cutie!


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## Latestarter (Feb 16, 2018)

What a sweetie! She's beautiful!  You two are going to be fantastic for each other! She's going to need all of that crate when she's full grown   Thanks for sharing the pics


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## BoboFarm (Feb 16, 2018)

She's adorable! 

Just a heads up, I'd suggest removing the slipper from her crate unless you don't mind her chewing on shoes as an adult.


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## Girlies' Mum (Feb 16, 2018)

BoboFarm said:


> She's adorable!
> 
> Just a heads up, I'd suggest removing the slipper from her crate unless you don't mind her chewing on shoes as an adult.


Good point, thank you so much , I have taken this on board! She is shoe/slipper/foot mad at the moment and you are right, I don't really want this forever.


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## Girlies' Mum (Feb 16, 2018)

Along these lines (of chewing, that is!) I bought Poppy a puppy Nylabone. Then afterwards I had a vague feeling I had heard something not so good about Nylabones deep in my memory. So have just been Googling Nylabone reviews and of course the web tells me Nylabones are  essentially implements to potentially slowly murder your pup. I know it is always the dramatic disasters people tend to write in on the internet, and if it were that bad I am sure Nylabones would not be on sale, so I just wondered if anyone out there had any views - good or bad - on Nylabones? I gave Poppy the puppy one in the end (under strict supervision) but the reviews talk about tiny shards breaking off etc. Trouble it that she really adored it, but I don't want to take any risks. Any views or experiences?


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## BoboFarm (Feb 16, 2018)

Nylabones are not intended to be ingested but we all know that puppies and dogs will end up ingesting some of it. I am not a fan of them because of the shards that can be chewed off. All of my litters have been raised on a raw diet so they get bones to chew on that helps satisfy the need to chew and gnaw. I do like Kongs because you can buy them based on chewing strength and size of the puppy/dog and I have never seen one destroyed like I've seen with Nylabones. You can also stuff them with goodies to give the pup some mental stimulation. I've even stuffed them with green beans and frozen chicken broth on a hot day. My adult rotties love them!


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## Latestarter (Feb 16, 2018)

I used to do the nylabones for my dogs but stopped because they did indeed eat them. Since you have a lab, they are supposed to have "soft" mouths. They sill need to teeth of course, but I used to get "rubberized" toys for my Golden's that they could bite "into" (kinda squishy but not destroyable), without tearing them apart. Kongs are VERY hard but do make great toys as they're damned near indestructible.


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## Girlies' Mum (Feb 17, 2018)

Thanks both - I think I will avoid Nylabones and stick to Kongs or similar, maybe a bit more squishy toys too. I like the idea of freezing things in Kongs.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 17, 2018)

Deer legs. The marrow is great for them.


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## Girlies' Mum (Feb 17, 2018)

Might have trouble sourcing them, though I will look into it. I guess other species sturdy leg bones would also be OK? Thank you.


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## Baymule (Feb 17, 2018)

Girlies' Mum said:


> Might have trouble sourcing them, though I will look into it. I guess other species sturdy leg bones would also be OK? Thank you.


If there is a slaughter house near you, you can get leg bones. We got beef bones for our dogs and they love them!


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## Bruce (Feb 18, 2018)

May not be many deer slaughterhouses in Scotland


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## Beekissed (Feb 19, 2018)

I'd go with natural bones too...just basted pig bones you can get at the feed store will serve well.  They can get the gristle on the ends chewed off but they really can't do much to the bones but gnaw on them and this also keeps their teeth cleaner.


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## Girlies' Mum (Feb 19, 2018)

Beekissed said:


> I'd go with natural bones too...just basted pig bones you can get at the feed store will serve well.  They can get the gristle on the ends chewed off but they really can't do much to the bones but gnaw on them and this also keeps their teeth cleaner.


Think I might find that easier. I believe our nearest slaughter house is about 2 and a half hours away - and that is for farm animals. Will ask the butcher for some big bones.  Have just looked up about venison production in Scotland out of curiosity and found the following on the web:-
 "though a small proportion of Scottish farmed deer do go through a specially designated abattoir, most farmed venison sold in Scotland has been field-shot." so @Bruce is right. There's only one. Learn something new every day - that is one of the joys of this community!


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## Dogsincharge (Feb 24, 2018)

I have to agree though that I would trust my retrievers before I would ever trust my LGD. My male golden retriever has a great temperament with the animals and never tries to hurt them. Once in awhile playing but if my LGD is around and a chicken flies out of the pen or if the cat is around then the LGD will attack. Almost tried to kill my Easter egger.


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