# General Questions



## ArtisticFarmer (Apr 13, 2013)

Hi! I am new here.  I've been wanted a goat for awhile, and am starting to research so I might be able to get one. I've got a few questions to start of my research-

I am looking for a pet/milk goat. Would and Alpine be good? I know saanens milk good, but I know they need a tight milking schedule and small hands for milking. 
How much, on average, does it cost to upkeep a goat(s)
Do I need more then one?
How much time does it require?
What are the basic tools for care? Shed, feeder, waterer, pen etc.
and last but not least,
how much room does it need?

Thanks for answering! 
ArtisticFarmer


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## elevan (Apr 14, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

> Hi! I am new here.  I've been wanted a goat for awhile, and am starting to research so I might be able to get one. I've got a few questions to start of my research-
> 
> I am looking for a pet/milk goat. Would and Alpine be good? I know saanens milk good, but I know they need a tight milking schedule and small hands for milking.
> How much, on average, does it cost to upkeep a goat(s)
> ...




Never had Alpines or Saanens so won't give an opinion on them other than they are good dairy breeds.

Average cost is dependent on the cost of stuff in your area, but goats can be kept fairly inexpensively if you are grassfed.  You can give alfalfa pellets to dairy does instead of grain (there will be mixed opinions on this - do your research thoroughly before you decide).

Goats are herd animals and will be happiest and healthiest with at least one other goat.

Time is dependent on what you want to do with your goats.  If you're just doing upkeep and milking then time can be minimal....or it can be a lot if you are showing.

Tools for care - shed / or some sort of housing, feeder, waterer, pen, milk stand / or alternative, hay, hoof trimmers / brush

Space - as much as you can give optimally.  What is the size of space you are looking at?

I would highly recommend reading the articles listed here:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-goat-info
and asking lots of questions.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks for the answers!
Ok, I will plan on 2 goats.
I have 6.5 acres to choose pasture, and might be able to have 2 pastures to rotate on. Also, what type of enclosure would it need?
Time isn't really a concern, just wondering.
Alfalfa hay- how much will it go through?
What type of housing does it need? I have a barn in which I could easily make a roomy stall for them. And, if at all, what type of bedding do they need?
I'll look around me to see what tool cost are!


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## elevan (Apr 14, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

> I have 6.5 acres to choose pasture, and might be able to have 2 pastures to rotate on. Also, what type of enclosure would it need?
> 
> What type of housing does it need? I have a barn in which I could easily make a roomy stall for them. And, if at all, what type of bedding do they need?


Use electric 3 -5 strands or field fencing that is 5 feet tall.

A roomy stall would be perfect for 2 goats.

Bedding - Use pine shavings, straw or waste hay.  We only bed our barn in Winter.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Apr 14, 2013)

elevan said:
			
		

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Would 5' chicken wire work? And what type of predators (if any) go after goats? The biggest thing I would have is coyotes, and they aren't too prevalent around here.


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## elevan (Apr 14, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

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IMHO chicken wire is weak and will only last 2 years at most (in our area anyway). And is not appropriate for goats.

Coyotes, domestic dogs, bear, cougar...depends on your area.  Domestic dog seems to  be the most prevalent predator.


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## sprocket (Apr 14, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

> Would 5' chicken wire work? And what type of predators (if any) go after goats? The biggest thing I would have is coyotes, and they aren't too prevalent around here.


Goats will inevitably end up standing on non-electrified wire, and will eventually destroy it.  Chicken wire wouldn't last long at all.  If you are going to use non-electric wire, make sure you get a woven mesh, NOT a welded mesh - they will break the welds.

We use the portable electric netting sold by Premier1 Supplies:

http://www.premier1supplies.com/fencing.php?mode=detail&fence_id=103

It's great for subdividing pastures into small grazeable bits to maximize forage utilization.  On a cost-per-foot basis, it compares favorably with pagewire, but with the benefit of being portable.


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## mikayladawn (Apr 14, 2013)

As far as fencing goes, I've found that the wire mesh of any type will eventually be bowed out in between posts because the goats like to rub against it. Despite that I have found that it works best. If I were you, I would go for a woven wire that isn't too big at the bottom (they will get their head stuck  ). And try to get the wire thicker, so that it won't bow as easily.

Alfalfa hay- how much will it go through? 
_With two goats, one flake would probably last a day or two depending on the rest of the diet._
What type of housing does it need? I have a barn in which I could easily make a roomy stall for them. 
_Yep, they don't particularly need a whole lot of space. Enough to come in, stretch out, and cool off/warm up._
And, if at all, what type of bedding do they need?
_The hay that get inevitably wasted is great._
 I am looking for a pet/milk goat. Would and Alpine be good? I know saanens milk good, but I know they need a tight milking schedule and small hands for milking. 
_Can't help you there. I have Nigerians which can produce one to two pints a day which is plenty for my family. I can't say I know much about saanens, but I've heard that Alpine milk has a very goaty taste. (that is opinion of course!) _
How much, on average, does it cost to upkeep a goat(s)
_full-size goats it'll be a bit more, but I pay about thirty dollars per goat which is feed, mineral, and hay. Deworming meds will be one of the more costly aspects. A bottle of the stuff can be anywhere from 20$ to 100$. Plus, any sort of vet bills._
Do I need more then one?
_Definitely. They are herd animals. At least two._
How much time does it require?
_As much as you are willing to. Goats are like a version of dogs. They have their personalities and can really enjoy your company. A doe in milk will require at least one milking per day._
What are the basic tools for care? Shed, feeder, waterer, pen etc.
_Feed bowls, water bucket, shelter, free-choice mineral, hoof shears, some sort of lead rope/collars thing helps though it is opt, milking stand, hay rack **do not get the net type because goats have hung themselves on those before.**_
how much room does it need?
_Depends. I agree with the 'as much as possible.' Some people dry lot theirs (no pasture), but personally I think they are healthier with some sort of grazing. I have seven goats on a just under two-acres which works fine. _


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## Baymule (Apr 14, 2013)

Have you looked at horse wire? It comes in 5' height, is strong and durable.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/non-climb-horse-fence-60-in-x-200-ft


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## ArtisticFarmer (Apr 15, 2013)

Thanks to everybody! So the answer is- Chicken wire will more or less work, but not for very long? Now, from and inexperienced goat-wanter- would staking them out work? We did that with a shetland pony we had, just wondering if it work for a goat. 

Oh, and, will a doe have to be bred and have a baby before she starts giving milk?


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## Mamaboid (Apr 15, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

> Thanks to everybody! So the answer is- Chicken wire will more or less work, but not for very long? Now, from and inexperienced goat-wanter- would staking them out work? We did that with a shetland pony we had, just wondering if it work for a goat.
> 
> Oh, and, will a doe have to be bred and have a baby before she starts giving milk?


Staking should only be done if you are going to be right there to untangle, and protect them.  It is amazing how fast a goat can get tangled up in a single blade of high grass, and they are sitting ducks for any predator that decides they have a hankering for goat chops.

Yes, a doe will have to be bred and kid before she can give milk.  You can usually start separating mom and kids overnight at 2 weeks and milk mom once a day and let the kids have the rest until they are weaned at which time you can milk 2 or 3 times a day.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Apr 15, 2013)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

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M'kay, thanks! I think I've run out of questions for the moment now.


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## sprocket (Apr 15, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

> Thanks to everybody! So the answer is- Chicken wire will more or less work, but not for very long? Now, from and inexperienced goat-wanter- would staking them out work? We did that with a shetland pony we had, just wondering if it work for a goat.
> 
> Oh, and, will a doe have to be bred and have a baby before she starts giving milk?


Chicken wire will be more trouble in the long run.  The goats will stand on it and destroy it very quickly.  It'd be more hassle and expense to putting it in, then constantly replacing it and fixing it, versus doing it properly the first time.  

I don't recommend tying them to a stake, if that was the question.  It dangerous to the goat should any predators (the biggest one being dogs) be around.

She'll need to be bred and kid out before you'll get any milk.


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## cjhubbs (Apr 15, 2013)

> General Questions
> 
> 
> Hi! I am new here. smile I've been wanted a goat for awhile, and am starting to research so I might be able to get one. I've got a few questions to start of my research-
> ...


I can't comment on the Alpines because we haven't owned any but we do have Saanens. I don't have small hands and it is very easy to milk our milker because her teats actually are larger without being pendulous and sausage like. We also don't milk our goats on the strictest of schedules. We typically milk our goat between 7:30 to 9:00 in the morning and anywhere from 6:00- 9:00 at night and it hasn't caused any problems during the three years we have had her. They definitely are good milkers, we got 1 gallon of milk for months and she actually milked for two years before we dried her off because we were breeding her.  When we dried her off she was still giving us around 1/2 a gallon a day. Ditto what everyone else said about having at least two goats and the basic tools you will need. Normally its takes me around 10- 15 minutes to just feed and take care of our two goats but when I was milking and feeding it took more like  20-30 minutes. I am working on our fencing at the moment because my goats were escaping, However, I have friends whom have used the chicken wire to fence in their goats but they ran two strands of electric fence on the top , so that their goats wouldn't lean on the fencing, and have never had any issue with their goats getting out or other animals getting in.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Apr 15, 2013)

thanks! I will see what I have for fencing around here. I think a gallon a day would be a bit much for me and my family, so I think I'll get an Alpine or something that milks less. As for buying goats, what would you suggest looking for to make sure it is a healthy goat, and what is a good price for a good goat?


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## elevan (Apr 15, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

> thanks! I will see what I have for fencing around here. I think a gallon a day would be a bit much for me and my family, so I think I'll get an Alpine or something that milks less. As for buying goats, what would you suggest looking for to make sure it is a healthy goat, and what is a good price for a good goat?


Goat price is pretty dependent on your area.  A good family milker can usually be bought for around $150 unregistered in our area.

When you buy animals  ask about:
*Parasite Control Program
--dewormer use history
--strategy used
--dewormer resistance profile
*Scrapie
*Foot rot, contagious abscesses, Johnes disease, ovine progressive pneumonia OPP in sheep and CAE in goats

Quarantine procedure  preferred is 60 days isolation (30 days minimum)
*testing during quarantine
--OPP & CAE
   dont test if under 6 months of age  may get inaccurate results
*Foot rot  may be wise to assume you purchased it and foot trim and foot soak
   foot rot is a bacteria  it is not caused by damp conditions or lack of hoof care
   it is solely transmitted animal to animal
   most common disease in sheep
   there are 20 sub types of foot rot  some much worse than others
   foot rot does NOT live in the soil for years  that is a serious myth at most it is there a  
   couple of days
--foot soak:  10% Zinc Sulfate
*Quarantine Drench  to help avoid introducing drug resistant worms
--isolate animals to barn, dry lot or a sacrifice pasture not used for other sheep
--use more than one dewormer class, one of which should be cydectin and the other
    probably levamisole (Prohibit)
--manure sample worm egg counts should be negative prior to turnout with other animals
   do sample 2-3 weeks after deworming
--release from quarantine onto YOUR INFECTED pastures
    you want the animal to pick up your non selected worms


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## ArtisticFarmer (Apr 15, 2013)

elevan said:
			
		

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Would the Quarantine be necessary if I don't have other goats? Where would I get a dewormer? And how do I trim a goats hooves?


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## elevan (Apr 15, 2013)

I would still deworm.

Tractor Supply, various online retailers sell them (dewormers).  I like www.jefferslivestock.com


Hoof trimming:  http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=17915


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## Jewls819 (Apr 15, 2013)

I would also check thier eyes to make sure they are not anemic.  Just pull down thier bottom lid and make sure it is a healthy dark pink color.  My vet told me to do this.


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## elevan (Apr 15, 2013)

Jewls819 said:
			
		

> I would also check thier eyes to make sure they are not anemic.  Just pull down thier bottom lid and make sure it is a healthy dark pink color.  My vet told me to do this.


That's a sign of barberpole worms and is part of a FAMACHA check.  Definitely a part of what you want to do when looking at new animals.

More info on FAMACHA including slides of how to do it can be found in my Parasite Management article (link in signature below).


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## ArtisticFarmer (Apr 15, 2013)

elevan said:
			
		

> I would still deworm.
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> Tractor Supply, various online retailers sell them (dewormers).  I like www.jefferslivestock.com
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Thank you very much for the link! 


As for dewormers- I found something at a store near me. Not sure if it is the right think or not. It says, "Active ingredient - Morantel Tartrate (Rumatel)" ? Is that ok?


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## elevan (Apr 15, 2013)

Never used Rumatel , but it sounds ok.  Hopefully someone will chime in who has used it.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Apr 17, 2013)

So, what type of brush does a goat need? Stiff or soft?


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## babsbag (Apr 17, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

> So, what type of brush does a goat need? Stiff or soft?


They will eat it all. Everything from pine trees to ferns, oak trees to blackberries. YOu should look for a list of what they shouldn't eat. Azaleas and Rhododendrons come to mind.

In your first quote you said something about Saanens needing a tight milking schedule and small hands and I will only say that any high producing goat will appreciate a tight schedule and their teats are no different than any other standard dairy breed. I milked 7 saanens for a friend once and they each gave over a gallon per milking and their teats were much larger than my Alpines. Her goats are show goats and awesome milkers so I would rank a saanen right in there with an Alpine when it comes to milking capabilities. I also know that she doesn't milk every evening at the same time as she is a vet and is sometimes kept at work for long hours. It works for her very well.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Apr 17, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

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Oh, ok! And by brush, I meant like the kind you groom them with.


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