# LGD puppy biting lambs



## big mami (Apr 24, 2015)

I admit it - I made a mistake.  I thought our 11 year old LGD would insure that the 6 month old LGD puppy would not harm the lambs.  Not the case.  Old dog is sleeping while puppy is chewing on the poor lambs' ears!  The stupid lambs don't make a sound while it's happening.  We have tried the shock collar, but it can't be on all the time and we have full time jobs and can't monitor all the time.  Tomorrow it will be a week since we got the lambs and they've been chewed on almost every day!  We don't have a separate place for the puppy.  Do I just need to get rid of the lambs?  Help!


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## Southern by choice (Apr 26, 2015)

At six months of age that is not a good sign. He is a bit old for such behaviors. I do not advise on shock collars. I have not used them n 30+ years of training and find them to be ineffective.

I would be putting the  pups in with a ram if possible or at least with adults that can discourage his behaviors. Separating the lambs or getting rid of them may be an option but the bigger question is is this something in the dog.

How old was the pup when you got him and what kind of livestock was he with prior to you getting him?


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## big mami (Apr 26, 2015)

We got him at 6 weeks and he has always been in with the old LGD and two Nigerian Dwarf goats who have their horns.  They will not let him touch them.  Sometimes (very rarely) they allow him to chase them, but when they're sick of it they turn around and lower their horns and he stops.  We sometimes let the chickens out with him but watch him very closely when we do (he wants to play with them too).  The lambs have been with him for a week now, and we are getting a good response from a strong swift NO and also chaining him up for a while if caught in the act.  Reinforcing with the shock collar at times, but it's not on often.  Trouble is, we can't always be watching him (both full time jobs) and he's either stubborn, stupid or very very tempted by the fun.  It's only been a week now and I do think we're getting somewhere (nothing last two days) but then again it's the weekend and we're able to watch him.

Oops, just read your post more closely.  Before we got him he was with other dogs, goats, and the chickens wandered around.  But he was just a tiny pup.


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## Ridgetop (May 21, 2015)

Just saw this thread.  Is your pup still chewing the lambs' ears?  Is he drawing blood or just licking and mouthing them.  This is still bad behavior in an LGD, but less so than actually biting and drawing blood.  Have you called the breeder to see what they suggest?  Since he was very young when you got him, he probably didn't have any training.  Just wandernig around the farm yard is not training.  It socializes the pup to the animals, but doesn't teach them proper behavior toward them.  Forget the shock collar, it will only be effective when you are home to use it.  I don't like them because the dog recognizes when they will be used and when not - if you are not home, you can't shock him so it is safe to chew on the lambs. 

First, put build another pen and put the lambs in it with the old LGD. You can build another pen cheaply from stock panels and T-posts to keep the lambs away from the pup temporarily. Only put him in with them when you are near enough to watch the interaction and correct him if he tries to go after the lambs. 

Second, buy a tough ram or buck who will butt the pup when he takes liberties.  He needs to learn manners interacting with the flock and will learn them better from a flock member who has a no nonsense attitude toward the dog.  The horned goats are doing a good job, but he needs to learn to learn that lambs and kids are also off limits.  Usually a protective mom will teach him that, but you have only young lambs, so no help there.

If you bought him to guard livestock, there is no sense getting rid of the livestock and keeping the bad LGD.  If you don't have livestock, then you don't need an LGD.  LGDs are used to save you the money you stand to lose if predators kill your livestock.  No livestock - no loss. 

If the pup can't be trained after several more months, I would keep the livestock and get rid of him.  Get an older puppy or dog that has had some training.  They do cost more, but are worth it since the training when done by someone who knows what they are doing is beyond price.  If the current puppy kills or injures the lambs figure what that will cost you in $$ - both vet bills and replacement cost of dead lambs, the cost of the feed, vaccinations, etc. during the time you had them until the time they were killed.  Don't forget to add in the loss of time to replace the dog, danger to the flock and loss of sleep during that time, and the future lambs the current flock would have produced.  

Now add all that up and then add that to the price you paid for your LGD puppy.  Looking at that total, you will see that the price of a well trained LGD is affordable and an untrained young puppy that looks like a bargain really isn't.  Southern raises and trains LGDs and can tell you what to look for in a well trained puppy and good breeder/trainer.  Asking certain questions and answers will point out good breeder/trainers from bad.  She can also tell you how much work goes into a well trained puppy. 

Good luck on retraining him.  He is still young - LGDs don't mature until they are at least 2 years old.  He has a lot of puppy left in him and there is still hope.


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## big mami (May 21, 2015)

Thank you so much for your great information.  In the intervening time, I wound up re-homing my puppy to a sheep ranch that already has other LGDs and will keep puppy away from lambs until he is older.  Many thanks to all who responded.


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## Ridgetop (May 21, 2015)

I think that is a good idea and gives you a chance to regroup and look for an older dog.  I did see the pix of the lamb's ears on another thread so think you did the right thing.  Those were nasty bites and not just puppy love.  Hope the lamb with the infection recovered ok.


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