# So what about that hooch-pooch picture stuff? - YOOO HOO..ARIEL!



## glenolam (Sep 23, 2010)

I've searched around here and can't seem to find a description of what to look for in the "Latin: hoo-chicus" ))to determine if a doe is bred.

Ariel - I know you've said you can tell pretty easily...what is it that you look for?


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## freemotion (Sep 23, 2010)

Yes, a tutorial with pictures, please, as I've found nothing online that demystifies it for me.  Those hoo-hoo pictures all look alike to me....you've seen one hoo-hoo, you've seen them all!


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## helmstead (Sep 23, 2010)

Look at the triangle ABOVE the anal sphinctor...with the doe's tail up and relaxed (not like pulling her tail up and shooting a photo).

On an open doe, the triangle is usually really sunken in.

On a bred doe, the triangle is filled out, not such a deep crater.

Of course in later gestation, they get some swelling of the whole area, looking generally loose...often with an elongating vulva.


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## glenolam (Sep 23, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> looking generally loose...often with an elongating vulva.


I think I'm blushing! 

Thanks for the description.  Will the triangle "fill out" more as gestation progresses?

When is the best time, rather, at what point in gestation can you use this "test"?


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## helmstead (Sep 23, 2010)

My guess, since when you're doing a pooch test you never really know how far along they are...is 2+ mos.

It fills to a point, generally flat or nearly so with the surrounding area, on most does.


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## freemotion (Sep 23, 2010)

Maybe some of us can take pictures of our open does the we are planning on breeding, and then maybe a new pic once a month.

Oh, sure, I'll remember that in January when the blizzards are raging!


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## glenolam (Sep 23, 2010)

So...I compared my doe that I *hope* is bred to my other does who aren't bred.  She was with a buck from 9/4/10 - 9/18/10.  I know, I know...not enough for two cycles, but I took what I could.

I know it's early, but one of my doelings looks plump in that 'triangle' you speak of, and the doe that "should" be bred (yes, it's still early) isn't, yet has the elongated vulva.

I think pics are a great idea.

Maybe after I get the 'clipping' done I'll take some! smack  Right back atcha free! )


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## Mea (Sep 24, 2010)

So glad You asked this question !    I've wondered myself, just never found the words to actually Ask the question,:/.   Now there is one more tool for the goatie toolbox.


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## chels24 (Sep 25, 2010)

Hopefully these pictures will help. I have a hard time telling if they are bred or not, but the top pictures shows a doe that was bred. She was a little over two months. The bottom picture is an open doe


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## glenolam (Sep 27, 2010)

To me the only thing that looks different is that the bottom picture (open doe) has those two lines going down to the vulva and the top doesn't.


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## Shootingstars (Sep 28, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> To me the only thing that looks different is that the bottom picture (open doe) has those two lines going down to the vulva and the top doesn't.


I agree, are we not seeing those lines because as that area enlarges they sort of stretch or what?

Thanks for showing the pics!


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## chels24 (Sep 29, 2010)

I don't really know what you look for, but open pictures of a doe and later this week I'll know if she comes back in heat again. Then at the 2 month mark I can put pics of the same doe open and bred


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## glenolam (Feb 11, 2011)

OK - so these girls are driving me crazy.  No udders, not sure if they ever took to breeding or not.  I took these pictures with tailes raised by the goats (not me)

Hooch-pooch experts - your thoughts?


This is Eloise - I've had to take her to the buck twice; once on 1/4/11 and then again 1/20/11 - 1/23/11.  She *may* have come into heat this weekend (18 days later) but she's not as bellowy as she usually is when in heat.  It's more quiet and she's not as hormonal as she usually is:







Now this one I witnessed a mounting on 9/25/10 (would've had a due date of 2/22/11), but I was too far away to see penetration.  She's a pygmy & has yet to build an udder






And I'm just not sure about these two:






She's sorta white - this was the best shot I could get:


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## Our7Wonders (Feb 11, 2011)

I know next to nothing about pooch pictures, however - your last doe pictured - the one that is white - her back side looks similar to my Ariel's backside and she's due in 10 days.  Elongated and swollen - now, I'm still waiting on any kind of udder development but she's definately bred and I felt babies moving like crazy yesterday.

It's frustrating.  Why can't they make pregnancy stick tests for livestock?  I'd happily follow my goat around to catch a pee sample so I could test it.  That would WAY easier than blood draws and all that.  

Sorry I can't help - it is interesting to hear and see the "experts" read a goat pooch.

Good luck!


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## glenolam (Feb 12, 2011)

Funny you say that about Nilly O7W - My hubby swears he sees her belly move, but it's always on the left side so I chaulk it up to her rumen.

The last two does pictured are FF and bred to a really small buck (pyg/nigi) so I'm hoping for easy delivieries like my first FF had.


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## Ariel301 (Feb 13, 2011)

It's kind of hard to tell in your pictures....it's hard to get a good picture of that anyway.  The last two I'm not all that sure on, so don't take my word for it. The pictures are also best if you are not pulling upwards on the tail, as the pull distorts the shape of things...but they don't like to cooperate with having a camera back there, so it can be tough to get a shot otherwise. It can also be informative to "bounce" a doe at the 2 month mark--the uterus becomes heavy and fluid-filled as the unborn kids develop, and you can usually feel a difference at that point. Stand behind the doe and put your hands on her belly just in front of the udder and lift firmly upward. If you can feel something like a solid basketball in there, she's bred. If she feels squishy and you don't encounter anything firm and round like that, she's probably open. Not 100% accurate, but it's a good test once you know what you're feeling for. 

I'm going to go with
Eloise: looks bred to me from the picture, but if she was in heat less than a month ago it's too early to tell.
2: looks bred, I'd say 2-3 months along. 
3: doesn't look bred
4: doesn't look bred

What you are looking for begins to show up about 8 weeks after breeding. It is more dramatic in some does than others, and gets more apparent the longer they are pregnant. On an open doe, the anus is tucked far back under the tail. A 2+ month bred doe will begin to slightly bulge outward, so the hollowness goes away and the anus becomes more flush with the vulva. The vulva will get more flabby and open looking, and will sort of pooch outwards a bit and elongate, it doesn't have the sort of puckered look that an open doe has. I'll try to find some pictures to illustrate.

Ok, here's a really poochy doe, 4 months pregnant. 





This doe is also pregnant:





This doe is open: (But still a tiny bit poochy as she had recently kidded)





Here's another open doe. You can't see the anus here, but you can see how the area is sort of puckered up, a bred doe loses that.


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## BetterHensandGardens (Feb 13, 2011)

Pictures would be very helpful


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## glenolam (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks, Ariel!

I'll try to get different pictures and update them - as you mentioned it's not that easy.  I didn't have to pull up on their tails, but I did sorta hold them up with my forearms so I could get the camera in there....gee....I feel like I violated them.

#4 there is really swollen above her vagina opening.  I haven't paid any attention to whether or not her anus is flush or not, but I'll take a look next time I'm out there.  She's also bigger than her sister (#3) and my hubby "claimes" he's seen her tummy moving as if there were kids in there, but who knows.  I don't believe it until I see it.

I have noticed that Opi (#2) is certainly developing an udder.  It's now getting a little more firm and bigger - DANG - pygmy udders are teeny!  This is supposedly her 2nd freshening.  Last year she had triplets - two does and a buck - so I'm hoping she'll be as nice to me as she was for her previous owner.

Thanks again and I'll try to get pics in daylight.


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## freemotion (Feb 13, 2011)

I see it!!!   I finally see it!!!!! 

Hmmm.....thinking about rousting my six does out of their sound sleep after midnight and looking at their hoo-hoos......


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## themrslove (Feb 14, 2011)

Oh goodness, I am sure they would LOOOVE you for that!  LOL


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## glenolam (Feb 14, 2011)

Thanks for those pics Ariel!

Now to print these all out and inspect my girls.....


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