# danger to a new born kid?



## newton the goat (Jan 6, 2017)

This is our first time ever having goats... we have one doe ( newton) and one billy (rosco) . Our little girl is close to kidding, only a few weeks away we are guessing, but we are nervous about our Billy.  He is frequently in and out of rut quite regularly not to mention his overly rough attitude, he likes to play but can be pretty rough. We fear that he may endanger the new kid.. what should we do? Is he potentially a danger?


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## NH homesteader (Jan 6, 2017)

Hi and welcome.  You should separate them before she kids.  Bucks are not always gentle enough (often that is a major understatement)  to be trusted with kids. He could really cause some damage.


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## newton the goat (Jan 6, 2017)

Thanks, and we will try to do that. Don't want to take any chances, the only problem is newton gets extremely lonely and will go into a depression ( reason why we got rosco in the first place). We are looking into getting a couple ewes that are giving birth around the same time... is that safe to do?


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## NH homesteader (Jan 6, 2017)

That I have no idea about.  I only have goats. Can you get another doe goat? Did you intentionally breed these two or are they pets?


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## newton the goat (Jan 6, 2017)

NH homesteader said:


> That I have no idea about.  I only have goats. Can you get another doe goat? Did you intentionally breed these two or are they pets?


 The breeding was not 100% intentional (actually my dad just bought a random goat who was healthy from the auction, just our luck he was a full male) but we've decided to see it through to the end newton's a pet rosco is ... well the nicest way I can explain is he's a pain in the butt ( literally, several bruises to prove it) but he isn't violent just too rough in his play. (Trying to calm him down)


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## NH homesteader (Jan 6, 2017)

Well you could have a vet wether him and after 4-6 weeks he would be more of a pet and friend to her.  Doesn't help immediately but would in the  long run. 

If you put them on opposite sides of a fence and they could see each other maybe she'd be OK?


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## newton the goat (Jan 6, 2017)

NH homesteader said:


> Well you could have a vet wether him and after 4-6 weeks he would be more of a pet and friend to her.  Doesn't help immediately but would in the  long run.
> 
> If you put them on opposite sides of a fence and they could see each other maybe she'd be OK?


One last inquiry ... newton's stomach went from slightly larger than usual to massive in just 2 weeks is that normal... we will get her checked out if it isnt... this is also her first pregnancy so is that potentially a factor?


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## NH homesteader (Jan 6, 2017)

@Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @babsbag @OneFineAcre 
@frustratedearthmother 

Some people who know far more about pregnancy and kidding than me!


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## newton the goat (Jan 6, 2017)

NH homesteader said:


> @Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @babsbag @OneFineAcre
> @frustratedearthmother
> 
> Some people who know far more about pregnancy and kidding than me!


Lol ok I'll put out and ask  thanks for your help


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## NH homesteader (Jan 6, 2017)

That'll notify them to look here.  It's like summoning the experts lol!


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## newton the goat (Jan 6, 2017)

NH homesteader said:


> That'll notify them to look here.  It's like summoning the experts lol!


Thanks your awesome!


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## babsbag (Jan 6, 2017)

Welcome to BYH from sunny, soon to be soaked California. 

The last few weeks a goat can suddenly look very very pregnant, that is pretty common, especially for a first timer.  I have had some that I questioned if they were even bred up to a week before kidding. I usually look at udders, that is a better predictor for me. 

My bucks and does are always separate but the kids will sometimes squeeze through the stock panel and visit the bucks. My bucks have always ignored the kids, but I wouldn't want them together during kidding just to be safe.  

Also, raising sheep and goats together full time can be a challenge as goats need minerals with copper and sheep can't have copper. But to have them together short term would be ok.


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## newton the goat (Jan 6, 2017)

babsbag said:


> Welcome to BYH from sunny, soon to be soaked California.
> 
> The last few weeks a goat can suddenly look very very pregnant, that is pretty common, especially for a first timer.  I have had some that I questioned if they were even bred up to a week before kidding. I usually look at udders, that is a better predictor for me.
> 
> ...


... I didn't know they need copper.... damnit .. anything else they need? We've read that it's better for does who are pregnant that it isn't the best for them to have too many grains is that true? We have tried spreading out her diet so she has more of the things she needs.... first time ever raising goats still learning new things every day. She has a salt lick, easy access to fresh hay and a combination of different feeds my dad was told would help


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 6, 2017)

newton the goat said:


> Thanks, and we will try to do that. Don't want to take any chances, the only problem is newton gets extremely lonely and will go into a depression ( reason why we got rosco in the first place). We are looking into getting a couple ewes that are giving birth around the same time... is that safe to do?





babsbag said:


> Also, raising sheep and goats together full time can be a challenge as goats need minerals with copper and sheep can't have copper. But to have them together short term would be ok.


I agree with Babs except for the section quoted.

Having had sheep and goats together… I would NOT recommend that.

It COULD work out. Or you could have dead animals. Sheep head butt very differently and will do far more damage in one blow.
If you take a ewe, stress her by moving her, then she lambs, she could very well kill the goat kid out of the stress alone.

I personally would not do it.

When Newton kids her kids will be the center of her world. She shouldn't deal with the depression.

You will need to keep her separated from here on out until it's a safe time for her to get bred again. Goats can cycle soon after kidding and you don't want her getting pregnant right away.

I also think if you can take it a little slow and learn about goats before you add another type of animals. Sheep and goats are very different. Learn goats and get a feel for livestock. Then research sheep and get them at the right time. I never want to push anyone away from "backyard farming", but going slow is one of the best things you can do


ETA: just saw this post was edited. 
Apparently stupid spell check changed KIDDING to killing. Grrr!


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## babsbag (Jan 6, 2017)

Feeding a goat is a crap shoot.  LOL.   There are so many feeds, and so many hays and a lot depends on where you live (you can add that to your profile for all the world to see...it helps). There are as many ways to feed as their are goat owners. 

I'll tell you what I do. I have 40+ goats and I am building a dairy. I like to keep it simple. I feed 100% alfalfa hay to all, bucks and does and kids. The does get extra grain when they are being milked. I get a good loose goat mineral and put it out for them 24/7. My favorite is made by Sweetlix, called Magnum Milk, it is designed to compliment an alfalfa diet. 

When I had a few goats I would feed hay and Purina Goat Chow, the one called Dairy Parlor.  I can't do that with 40 goats, they fight over the feed trough. A little extra grain while your girl is pregnant won't hurt her, you just don't want a fat goat. 

The buck can have the same hay and minerals. If you give him extra goat feed he should have the one with Ammonium Chloride added so he doesn't get Urinary Calculi. It is not the calcium that causes this as some people think, it is the calcium to phosphorous ratio and grains are very high in phosphorous. The ratio should be 2:1 calcium to phosphorous. The calcium can go higher, but not the Phosphorous. 

Listen to @Goat Whisperer...she is wise...  I have never  owned sheep, but I do know a few people that keep them together, but probably not a good idea when they are pregnant. 

Has your girl had her CDT vaccine?


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## newton the goat (Jan 6, 2017)

Goat Whisperer said:


> I agree with Babs except for the section quoted.
> 
> Having had sheep and goats together… I would NOT recommend that.
> 
> ...


For the most part my father has put me in charge of caring for the goats... which as you can tell I'm still learning ( regret able I wish I knew more of this sooner) he is planning on getting sheep earlier spring time so he will be in charge of them... thanks for letting me know about how the sheep and goats could be incompatible. .. that could have been an issue we didn't need. Honeslty I wish things could just slow down a bit ... learn a bit more about the animals we have before adding more.... but since that isn't happening I'm doing the best I can to learn all the things I need.... 
Newton's kid will be born late January or early February. .. anything I need to make sure to have for when it arrives?


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## newton the goat (Jan 6, 2017)

babsbag said:


> Feeding a goat is a crap shoot.  LOL.   There are so many feeds, and so many hays and a lot depends on where you live (you can add that to your profile for all the world to see...it helps). There are as many ways to feed as their are goat owners.
> 
> I'll tell you what I do. I have 40+ goats and I am building a dairy. I like to keep it simple. I feed 100% alfalfa hay to all, bucks and does and kids. The does get extra grain when they are being milked. I get a good loose goat mineral and put it out for them 24/7. My favorite is made by Sweetlix, called Magnum Milk, it is designed to compliment an alfalfa diet.
> 
> ...


No she hasn't yet... I feel like such an irresponsible owner just learning all of this now.... is it okay that she get it while pregnant?


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## babsbag (Jan 6, 2017)

Yes, she should have it 30 days or so before kidding so now would be perfect. 

Again, I am a minimalist when it comes to kidding. I keep towels and iodine on hand. I also like those big disposal bed pads or puppy pads to lay new born kids on but straw works too, it just sticks to them. You need to dip the cords as soon after birth as possible. My vet tells me that for the first 24 hours you should dip the cords every time you see the kids...I don't, but it is a thought.  

@ goat whisperer do you have a list to share? 

You might want to do some reading about normal kid presentations during birth so you know what to expect and what is normal.


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## newton the goat (Jan 6, 2017)

babsbag said:


> Yes, she should have it 30 days or so before kidding so now would be perfect.
> 
> Again, I am a minimalist when it comes to kidding. I keep towels and iodine on hand. I also like those big disposal bed pads or puppy pads to lay new born kids on but straw works too, it just sticks to them. You need to dip the cords as soon after birth as possible. My vet tells me that for the first 24 hours you should dip the cords every time you see the kids...I don't, but it is a thought.
> 
> ...


My dad is hoping for an as natural birth as possible ... which it night now go as planned.... I have been studying hard all things that could happen during the birthing....and am feeling more nervous than probably newton ever will ... one problem we are worried about is there is snow on the ground here still and the baby is being born during the coldest month out here.... someone told me that a sweater that would be normal used on a small dog will better it's chances of survival.. is that true? Or would It cause unecessary issues?


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 6, 2017)

This is a copy/paste of one of my old posts. 
I know I have more than listed on hand but it's 1am and I can't remember everything at the moment. I'll add anything else later. 

This is my kidding kit, you don't need to go out and buy ALL this stuff LOL. Over the years we have added in a few things here and there just to have on hand. I bolded the things that should be first to go into your kit  The Jumpstart paste like $7.50 a tube, it has saved some of my babies before and I always get a tube around kidding time.

You should always have a basic kidding kit when you are expecting baby kids! 

My kidding kit includes:
*Towels! Lots of em!*
Paper towels
Trash bags
*Floss (for the navel)*
*Iodine+ a cup*
*Scissors*
Rubbing alcohol- I use this to clean the scissors before cutting the navel
Flashlight
*Thermometer*
*Bulb Syringe*
Bottle/nipples
Frozen colostrum 
*Disposable gloves*
Shoulder length gloves
Lube
CMT mastitis kit along with TODAY mastitis treatment tubes

Weak kid syringe-I haven't had to use it and I hope I never will, but it is a great thing to have on hand.

Small dog sweaters for the baby goat kids- if it is cold outside. I also keep "hot hands" warmer and heating pads around. A hair blow dryer as well. 

I also keep on hand-
Jumpstart Plus paste, I got it from TSC and I don't think a few of my kids would be alive without it. It was a rough birth and they were very weak and this stuff helped a lot.

Nutri-Drench

Molasses- I give some in some warm water after the doe kids.

Penn G* (antibiotic) 

LA 200* (antibiotic) 

*These antibiotics aren't really for kidding- I always keep them on hand and if the doe had an issue such as a retianed placenta or stillborn kids, an antibiotic may be necessary. 

*NOTE: Do not give molasses or Nutri-Drench to an animal with a fever, it will only make it worse.*


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## babsbag (Jan 6, 2017)

A sweater is great for them. Many people make them out of an old sweatshirt, the arms are for the front legs.  Once they are born and dry you will be surprised how much cold they can take but the sweater won't hurt. Hopefully you will be around when she has the kid(s) so you can dry them off and make sure they are nursing.  Do they have a barn?


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## Latestarter (Jan 6, 2017)

Greetings and welcome to BYH!   First off, relax!   You're in the very best place right now to learn what you need to learn!   You're already talking with two of our best goat experts    and I'm sure others will chime in as needed! There is an (basic) article on site that can get you started as well: https://www.backyardherds.com/resources/so-you-bought-a-baby-goat-now-what.59/ 

It doesn't cover every possibility, and it's not doctorate/PhD level. It's a great start & it's always available for reference. There's also a wealth of information and knowledge shared in the various threads here. And there are also awesome, active goat folks who are always eager to help a new person learn and be successful! Please browse around and make yourself at home. If you have ANY questions, just post away. Chances are pretty good that you'll have a response pretty quickly. You have some time before your girl will kid, so you have time to read up on things. Glad you joined us!


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## babsbag (Jan 7, 2017)

I knew that @Goat Whisperer would have a comprehensive list. Mine is a LITTLE light compared to hers.


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

babsbag said:


> A sweater is great for them. Many people make them out of an old sweatshirt, the arms are for the front legs.  Once they are born and dry you will be surprised how much cold they can take but the sweater won't hurt. Hopefully you will be around when she has the kid(s) so you can dry them off and make sure they are nursing.  Do they have a barn?


It's not a barn but we built them a medium sized shack that it's facing out of the wind and is warm inside


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## babsbag (Jan 7, 2017)

BTW, what breed of goat is she?


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> Greetings and welcome to BYH!   First off, relax!   You're in the very best place right now to learn what you need to learn!   You're already talking with two of our best goat experts    and I'm sure others will chime in as needed! There is an (basic) article on site that can get you started as well: https://www.backyardherds.com/resources/so-you-bought-a-baby-goat-now-what.59/
> 
> It doesn't cover every possibility, and it's not doctorate/PhD level. It's a great start & it's always available for reference. There's also a wealth of information and knowledge shared in the various threads here. And there are also awesome, active goat folks who are always eager to help a new person learn and be successful! Please browse around and make yourself at home. If you have ANY questions, just post away. Chances are pretty good that you'll have a response pretty quickly. You have some time before your girl will kid, so you have time to read up on things. Glad you joined us!


I'm gla d I joined too... I had no idea how much Information I was actually missing...


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

babsbag said:


> BTW, what breed of goat is she?


She is a nubian senan cross


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## babsbag (Jan 7, 2017)

She is a big girl then, that is good, bigger kids can handle cold better. 

Dry and fed is the number one way to make sure a kid won't get too cold. Since this is a first time mom I would really want to be there to make sure she has this nursing thing figured out, it is critical to their survival, especially in the cold. I didn't read all of that list that was posted but get some Pritchard nipples and plastic coke bottles  just in case you need to bottle feed. Nipples aren't something you can run to town and buy easily.


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

babsbag said:


> She is a big girl then, that is good, bigger kids can handle cold better.
> 
> Dry and fed is the number one way to make sure a kid won't get too cold. Since this is a first time mom I would really want to be there to make sure she has this nursing thing figured out, it is critical to their survival, especially in the cold. I didn't read all of that list that was posted but get some Pritchard nipples and plastic coke bottles  just in case you need to bottle feed. Nipples aren't something you can run to town and buy easily.


Ya, we figured that out when we first got her... my dad accidentaly bought her from an auction only to discover she hadn't been fully weaned yet and refused to take a bottle ... she basically was raised by us one of us was always in the room watching her because of how small she started out.... most of the time she refused the bottle which worried us until we saw she was eating plenty of the grain and drinking lots of the water we left out.... nipples are pretty hard to find out where I am.... seeing the condition we got her in we haven't gone back to that auction house ... she didn't look like she was going to make it for a while  .... took her weeks to have a noticible weight gain... ( measured her daily)


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## babsbag (Jan 7, 2017)

You have time to get ready, so that is good. Selling an unweaned goat at an auction, shame on the seller. Poor thing, amazing that she didn't die from stress alone. Are you going to milk her?


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2017)

When the kid(s) are born, make sure they get attached to a teat as soon as possible after birth and drying. And make sure they're actually getting something out of the teat. The first nursing is colostrum which the sooner baby gets it the better, but really must happen within the first 12 hours or so. Sometimes momma's teats can be "plugged" or really thick colostrum and the kids can't get anything out. Don't "milk momma" before the kids try, as you don't want to waste the colostrum. If you're going to bottle feed, always make sure the kids is warm before feeding. Never feed a cold kid.


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

babsbag said:


> You have time to get ready, so that is good. Selling an unweaned goat at an auction, shame on the seller. Poor thing, amazing that she didn't die from stress alone. Are you going to milk her?


If we do milk her I would have to be the one to do it -_- whenever the topic is brought up everyone but me does the whole finger on the nose not me thing....


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> When the kid(s) are born, make sure they get attached to a teat as soon as possible after birth and drying. And make sure they're actually getting something out of the teat. The first nursing is colostrum which the sooner baby gets it the better, but really must happen within the first 12 hours or so. Sometimes momma's teats can be "plugged" or really thick colostrum and the kids can't get anything out. Don't "milk momma" before the kids try, as you don't want to waste the colostrum. If you're going to bottle feed, always make sure the kids is warm before feeding. Never feed a cold kid.


So if I attempt to feed a cold kid I will do more harm then good? Ok good to know .... I'm glad I joined I wouldn't know half what I know now


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> When the kid(s) are born, make sure they get attached to a teat as soon as possible after birth and drying. And make sure they're actually getting something out of the teat. The first nursing is colostrum which the sooner baby gets it the better, but really must happen within the first 12 hours or so. Sometimes momma's teats can be "plugged" or really thick colostrum and the kids can't get anything out. Don't "milk momma" before the kids try, as you don't want to waste the colostrum. If you're going to bottle feed, always make sure the kids is warm before feeding. Never feed a cold kid.


The one thing I'm worried about is I'm still in high school and my dad works as well so we would have to convince his fiance to keep an eye on her... ( she's kinda squeamish sadly enough idk how much she would be willing to do)


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Goat Whisperer said:


> This is a copy/paste of one of my old posts.
> I know I have more than listed on hand but it's 1am and I can't remember everything at the moment. I'll add anything else later.
> 
> This is my kidding kit, you don't need to go out and buy ALL this stuff LOL. Over the years we have added in a few things here and there just to have on hand. I bolded the things that should be first to go into your kit  The Jumpstart paste like $7.50 a tube, it has saved some of my babies before and I always get a tube around kidding time.
> ...


OK so for the most part I understand why so much of this list is needed but ... could someone explain a situation so I can get an idea how things are properly used? Sorry for the inconvenience... like the floss and is the molasses fort the doe? If so how does it help? Things like that .... I'm just curious


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## babsbag (Jan 7, 2017)

The floss is to tie off the cord in case it is bleeding or too long. You never cut a cord, you should always tear them, but they are tough. The thought is that cutting them makes them bleed and tearing doesn't but you can tie if off it needed. 

The molasses is just to give the doe added energy especially if she has had a long hard kidding. 

If a kid is cold when you feed them they can't digest the milk, it just sits in the stomach. Always check the mouth first if you come across a kid that looks weak and probably hasn't nursed.  Hopefully you will never need to know that. 

Tell the fiance' to "suck it up"    No place on a farm for squeamishness when an animal depends on you.  Hopefully no problems and hopefully when you are home. Maybe at least she can check on the doe and make sure all is well and then you can come home if there is an emergency???  I had cameras in my barn when I was at work so I could check on the does, but it also wasn't cold. California doesn't really get cold, not like Ontario.


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2017)

Well, you do the best you can...   and then hope for the best. If you check before school then as soon as you get home, well, then that's the best... hopefully it will happen over a weekend when you can be there. "Doe code" states that she'll hold off until you're frantic, then wait a day or two more for good measure. Then she'll try to have her kid in the middle of the night, when the temp is as cold as it can possibly get, during the worst storm of the century...  Just the way it "seems" to go. You'll be checking her every 2 hours and she'll have the kid right midway between visits, just so you miss it. 

If you want to milk her, you can do a little right from the start unless she has twins or trips (trips are unlikely as a first freshener-FF). A Nubian or Sannen goat is a true dairy animal that can produce in excess of a gallon or more of milk a day. A single kid won't drink that much by themselves, but twins or trips can. They don't drink all at once but off and on throughout their wakeful hours. After a couple of weeks, you can separate the kids from mom over night then milk momma out in the morning for your use, then put the kids back with mom for the rest of the day. Typical milking periods for goats on test are 305 days. You can milk her as long as she's capable or until you want to "dry her off" to get her ready for mating again. Milking is a whole nuther subject you can read up on.

If you feed the kid when cold, they can't digest the milk (it will ferment) and the kid could bloat, which can kill them. Putting a finger in the kids mouth will tell you if they are warm or cold.

The floss is to tie off the umbilical cord. You dip the naval cord in the iodine to prevent bacteria from getting in there and going up the cord and infecting the kid. Called "naval ill" it can be a killer, and would require vet intervention and antibiotics.

The molasses is for the doe if she is getting weak. Like any sugar, it will provide a rapid energy boost. You don't want to give sugars to the kid as a general rule right after birth. 

Spend some time in the threads and you'll learn a bunch. You'll also learn that there are alternative ways to do things, and not everyone agrees on any one thing. what's good/works for one might not work for another.


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2017)

posted same time...


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

babsbag said:


> The floss is to tie off the cord in case it is bleeding or too long. You never cut a cord, you should always tear them, but they are tough. The thought is that cutting them makes them bleed and tearing doesn't but you can tie if off it needed.
> 
> The molasses is just to give the doe added energy especially if she has had a long hard kidding.
> 
> ...


Ya we've had some wicked winters so far.... I know she will check on the goat ( she loves newton to the extreme) just she has ocd and blood and bodily fluids freak her out... I am sure for a fact that she will let us know what's happening if it happens while I'm at school... I'll have my g2 soon and will be able to drive


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Is it true her behavior will change the closer to the delivery she gets? I know in on thing that I've read is a while before the labour even starts she could seem agitated or seem to be looking for something and depending on the goat making more noise than usual... she is certainly more cuddly than she has even been.. every time I enter the pen she attaches herself to my leg ( not even an inch of space between us ) and wait for me to stop moving then will lean on me or rub up against me .. she's always been affectionate but seems more so lately


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## babsbag (Jan 7, 2017)

The only change I really notice is the doe will "talk" to her belly and often stand apart from the herd.  Most of my goats aren't bottle kids so not super attached to me, it might be different with Newton. 

@Goat Whisperer  You have super friendly goats, do you notice changes in behavior?


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

babsbag said:


> The only change I really notice is the doe will "talk" to her belly and often stand apart from the herd.  Most of my goats aren't bottle kids so not super attached to me, it might be different with Newton.
> 
> @Goat Whisperer  You have super friendly goats, do you notice changes in behavior?


I haven't noticed her "talking" to her belly but she's making a lot less noise than usual.. which is weird for her and she is avoiding our buck like the plague (though I would to if he kept following me) she is usually hanging around their shed instead of exploring like usual. We have a shallow wooded area where they both usually graze happily ( less snow and a few patches of grass left) but she doesn't go far anymore and tends to hide inside.


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2017)

Sometimes a doe getting ready to kid will put off hormones that can make a buck think she's in season and try to mate her. Obviously this isn't good for the doe or the kid... As was mentioned before you really should separate them but in a manner where they can still see and talk to each other. This may be part of the reason she's staying clear of the buck. Being close to kidding, some goats will stay close to shelter, others will try to find a "safe place" away from the barn. Some will start nesting - trying to build a nest, others don't, generally they become uncomfortable and may be constantly getting up and down, pawing, holding their tail up or to the side. Generally speaking, when she starts acting "not normal" she's either got something wrong or getting close.

The best way to check to see if she's close to kidding is to check her ligaments. There are two ligaments, sorta like pencils, that run down either side of her hind quarters beside/right above her tail. As she gets closer to kidding, these will stretch and become almost impossible to find. When the "ligs are gone" generally you're within 24 hours of having babies. Some swear it will be within 24 hours, others swear they have goats who have no ligs for days... go figure. Either way, you're close.  http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/...n-your-goat-is-in-labor-or-getting-close.html


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> Sometimes a doe getting ready to kid will put off hormones that can make a buck think she's in season and try to mate her. Obviously this isn't good for the doe or the kid... As was mentioned before you really should separate them but in a manner where they can still see and talk to each other. This may be part of the reason she's staying clear of the buck. Being close to kidding, some goats will stay close to shelter, others will try to find a "safe place" away from the barn. Some will start nesting - trying to build a nest, others don't, generally they become uncomfortable and may be constantly getting up and down, pawing, holding their tail up or to the side. Generally speaking, when she starts acting "not normal" she's either got something wrong or getting close.
> 
> The best way to check to see if she's close to kidding is to check her ligaments. There are two ligaments, sorta like pencils, that run down either side of her hind quarters beside/right above her tail. As she gets closer to kidding, these will stretch and become almost impossible to find. When the "ligs are gone" generally you're within 24 hours of having babies. Some swear it will be within 24 hours, others swear they have goats who have no ligs for days... go figure. Either way, you're close.  http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/...n-your-goat-is-in-labor-or-getting-close.html


I will have to do my best with separating our buck from her... problem is we didn't have enough time before the ground froze to put up another fenced in area like we had planned so unless we whether the poor guy it will be extremely difficult


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2017)

Other indications are vaginal swelling &/or discharge. Before kidding they will lose their mucous plug. This could happen 6 weeks before or a week before. Right before the kid comes out they usually present a "bubble" of fluid (I guess like when a woman's water bursts) after that pops, you should start seeing the kid present, front hooves with nose right above them. Kinda like diving out of momma. There should be contractions and labor. Once that starts, you should be seeing the first kid born within 15-30 minutes. Longer than that may indicate a problem... breach, coming out backwards, two tangled up trying to come together, head bent back, all those possibilities.

For fencing you could use pallets stood up, stacked end to end with rear bracing to build a holding pen/dry lot for him. Sorry about frozen ground... I'm in TX and dealing with 17 degrees right now... a might chilly for down here.


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2017)

As Babs had said, another good indication of near kidding is udder development. Sometimes almost as good as ligs. The problem is some does will start to develop an udder a week or more before kidding, others udder up overnight, and some don't get their udder till after delivery. You won't really know since this is her first kidding with you. After you've seen what she does the first time, it should be close to that the 2nd time, but not always.


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2017)

Something else to consider is that the doe is gonna make a bit of a mess on her backside delivering. You may want to "trim her up" a bit, not shaved as it's pretty cold up there too, but just so you don't have as big of a mess to deal with. You might also consider trimming her teats and around them so if you decide to milk you don't have as much hair in the milk. That might be easier to do after she bags up.


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> Other indications are vaginal swelling &/or discharge. Before kidding they will lose their mucous plug. This could happen 6 weeks before or a week before. Right before the kid comes out they usually present a "bubble" of fluid (I guess like when a woman's water bursts) after that pops, you should start seeing the kid present, front hooves with nose right above them. Kinda like diving out of momma. There should be contractions and labor. Once that starts, you should be seeing the first kid born within 15-30 minutes. Longer than that may indicate a problem... breach, coming out backwards, two tangled up trying to come together, head bent back, all those possibilities.
> 
> For fencing you could use pallets stood up, stacked end to end with rear bracing to build a holding pen/dry lot for him. Sorry about frozen ground... I'm in TX and dealing with 17 degrees right now... a might chilly for down here.


I will attempt to head over to a place where we can get free pallets this weekend.... I don't want her more stressed out than she needs to be


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> Something else to consider is that the doe is gonna make a bit of a mess on her backside delivering. You may want to "trim her up" a bit, not shaved as it's pretty cold up there too, but just so you don't have as big of a mess to deal with. You might also consider trimming her teats and around them so if you decide to milk you don't have as much hair in the milk. That might be easier to do after she bags up.


Lol if you want to try and do that go ahead lol ... my girl does not like people touching around her backside unless it's a nice but scratch above her tail... she can kick which I haven't heard of as a usual behavior in most times lol.. sometimes I swear she's part mule... can be very stubborn if you catch her on a bad day lol... I will try to trim that area but will likely get a solid headbutt to what ever part of me she can access first


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2017)

If you're able to nail/bolt the pallet ends to each other top and bottom, that should keep them standing and it will take some effort for your goat to push them over. You could also build a round ring out of pallets then put a strap or long wire around the ring and tighten it to keep them from being displaced. Like a twist tie around a bread bag when you close it.

You want to really make a point of getting comfortable with her allowing you to touch her all over. It will become important for many reasons aside from trimming her backside. When she's kidding, if you're there with her, you'll get her fluids on you and the kid's as well. at that point she'll probably bond with you as well as the kid(s) as you'll smell just like them. You'll also want to handle the kids and get them used to your smell so they aren't afraid of you. As a vet once said, as soon as the kid is born you want to put your fingers everyplace you can touch and inside every orifice so that kid expects that to be normal. There are threads on here where folks go into great detail as to what they had to do to be able to train their goat for milking... like tying feet down so they can't/learn to not kick.


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2017)

Oh, just thought of another way to build a pen... using cattle panels to form a ring. 16 feet long by 48" high, just wire them together at the ends and leave one connection able to be opened and closed so you can get in and out.


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> If you're able to nail/bolt the pallet ends to each other top and bottom, that should keep them standing and it will take some effort for your goat to push them over. You could also build a round ring out of pallets then put a strap or long wire around the ring and tighten it to keep them from being displaced. Like a twist tie around a bread bag when you close it.
> 
> You want to really make a point of getting comfortable with her allowing you to touch her all over. It will become important for many reasons aside from trimming her backside. When she's kidding, if you're there with her, you'll get her fluids on you and the kid's as well. at that point she'll probably bond with you as well as the kid(s) as you'll smell just like them. You'll also want to handle the kids and get them used to your smell so they aren't afraid of you. As a vet once said, as soon as the kid is born you want to put your fingers everyplace you can touch and inside every orifice so that kid expects that to be normal. There are threads on here where folks go into great detail as to what they had to do to be able to train their goat for milking... like tying feet down so they can't/learn to not kick.


OK that makes sense. For the most part I'm really one of the only people she let's touch her, if she's in a good mood I could pick her up and walk around if I wanted to and she wouldn't mind ... just those few days where she acts like a human and dislikes a lot of things are the annoying days lol


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> Oh, just thought of another way to build a pen... using cattle panels to form a ring. 16 feet long by 48" high, just wire them together at the ends and leave one connection able to be opened and closed so you can get in and out.


OK ... hmm worth a try good thing we have newton's old shelter still intact I could build it round that so he is still safe and warm


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2017)

Well, I'm about ready to head off to bed (2am)  Enjoy your reading and if you have further questions on any of the threads, just post away. Take care!


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## newton the goat (Jan 7, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> Well, I'm about ready to head off to bed (2am)  Enjoy your reading and if you have further questions on any of the threads, just post away. Take care!


Thanks you too ( it's 3 here.... oh God why am I still up)


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