# mini horses - breeding



## floridaGirl13 (Jun 4, 2013)

We have a mini stud who is technically a dwarf mini stud, and we recently got a mini mare who is standard mini size. We have little to no information on them as they were purchased from places that just thought of them as an adorable income. We believe the mare is 1+ yrs old and the stud is 5+yrs old. Well... spring is in the air and our little stud muffin is quite well aware of it. They are turned out together and he has mounted her several times already lol can't blame him though she is really cute. I've heard the gestation period for minis is the same as full size horses, anyone know if this is true? I know they are more susceptible to complications with birthing, and the stud is splay footed so I'm not sure if that increases the risk factor during birth. we aren't sure if our little girl is sexually mature yet but if she is then. We should be expecting a mini foal next spring. Anyone know anything, anything at all about mini breeding/birthing? Please and thank you!


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## frustratedearthmother (Jun 4, 2013)

Just my opinion here, but if the filly is just over a year that's young - awfully young.  And a dwarf stallion?  Most folks would tell you that they should not procreate....  You've already said he's splay footed, so why perpetuate that?

Of course, they are your animals and you have final say.   If you believe she's already bred - just count the months (yes, same as standard size horses) and try really hard to be on hand at the birth, because as you noted mini's have more foaling problems.

Hope I didn't disappoint you with my answer.


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## floridaGirl13 (Jun 4, 2013)

Not at all!! In the contrary,  thank you very much. To be honest we didn't think he could... reach. Concidering the size difference and also, excuse my bluntness I just don't know how else to put it, his "manhood" curves towards his tail when he drops out. The few times we've witnessed him "in action" he can't quite reach and the one time that he did, that we witnessed, he only just barely made it. And she peed Immediately afterward. So we never expected them to be able to procreate. I guessed we underestimated him. I'm just looking for any advice pertaining to minis pregnancy and birthing, just in case. Also, they do not belong to us, you could say that we(my husband and I) are their care takers.


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## GLENMAR (Jun 4, 2013)

Sounds like she got bred. All my mares peed afterward too. I hope everything turns out ok.


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## floridaGirl13 (Jun 4, 2013)

My boss has had the stud for about 5 yrs or so and we all love him to pieces. He is, in fact, the only stud on the property and he is quite well aware of it. As I've never bred horses before I, personally, am not sure what to expect. I have been present for 1 birth but that was my QH mare when I was 9! Minis are still new to me. I honestly thought they would be easier to handle than full size horses, boy was I wrong lol


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## Bunnylady (Jun 5, 2013)

Most of the miniature horse people that I know consider it the height of irresponsibility to knowingly breed a dwarf. They are trying very hard to get dwarfism out of the gene pool; throwing a dwarf foal has been the reason for gelding some really, really gorgeous, show-winning studs. Splay footedness is just the beginning; there are so may possible defects associated with dwarfism; some dwarf foals are so deformed they cannot survive, others live in pain their entire lives. Meeting the nutritional needs of dwarfs can be a real challenge, as their digestive systems are often affected by the same genes causing dwarfism. Almost all dwarfs have bite problems (requiring frequent dental procedures), some foals are born with such severely undershot jaws that they can't nurse. 

I'm assuming that your boss is simply ignorant of the full range of possible problems here, rather than them being this careless about their animals. Like most horses, minis continue to grow for about 4-5 years; a filly that is only 2 years old will still be growing and probably still have a fairly narrow pelvis. Giving birth to a normal foal would probably be difficult, but since dwarfs often have disproportionately large heads and thick bodies, the odds of real problems coming up during delivery rise astronomically. 

I've been a member of the Marestare forum for many years. Having watched many, many mature miniature mares bred to normal stallions get into difficulties (several of which resulted in the death of the mare) cured me of any ideas I may have had about breeding miniature horses. I have minis, and I love them, but risking my girls' lives to give birth to a deformed foal? No way!


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## promiseacres (Jun 5, 2013)

Best advice is to keep them seperate and prevent another breeding. U can get a shot to abort the possible foal from a vet. But if u are ok with the possible foal having deformaties plus possible birthing issues with that young of a filly....keep track of your days and start watching for a foal @ 300 days. Some minis will foal earlier than standard mares but not all. Most mini breeders consider 330 days average (vs 340). Hope it works out for the best. Maybe u can talk the owner into gelding the little guy as he will be happier without as much frustration.  Unfortunately. There is an overabundance of minis and most people don't want to pay much for one even with training or good breeding  I love mine but now only have 3 for my own family's pleasure.


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## MDres (Jun 5, 2013)

Bunnylady said:
			
		

> Most of the miniature horse people that I know consider it the height of irresponsibility to knowingly breed a dwarf. They are trying very hard to get dwarfism out of the gene pool; throwing a dwarf foal has been the reason for gelding some really, really gorgeous, show-winning studs. Splay footedness is just the beginning; there are so may possible defects associated with dwarfism; some dwarf foals are so deformed they cannot survive, others live in pain their entire lives. Meeting the nutritional needs of dwarfs can be a real challenge, as their digestive systems are often affected by the same genes causing dwarfism. Almost all dwarfs have bite problems (requiring frequent dental procedures), some foals are born with such severely undershot jaws that they can't nurse.
> 
> I'm assuming that your boss is simply ignorant of the full range of possible problems here, rather than them being this careless about their animals. Like most horses, minis continue to grow for about 4-5 years; a filly that is only 2 years old will still be growing and probably still have a fairly narrow pelvis. Giving birth to a normal foal would probably be difficult, but since dwarfs often have disproportionately large heads and thick bodies, the odds of real problems coming up during delivery rise astronomically.
> 
> I've been a member of the Marestare forum for many years. Having watched many, many mature miniature mares bred to normal stallions get into difficulties (several of which resulted in the death of the mare) cured me of any ideas I may have had about breeding miniature horses. I have minis, and I love them, but risking my girls' lives to give birth to a deformed foal? No way!


I agree completely. I have owned minis. One of my friends and clients is a National caliber mini breeder and trainer. Her minis sell for thousands and thousands of dollars. She has written and published several books on breeding, raising and training minis, and she STILL has problems at birthing time. Breeding minis is wayyy more complicated than full-size horses.

I am a firm believer that no horse should be bred unless it has merit and has proven itself. Your stud should be gelded, and your mare should have been allowed to mature and be proven worthy of breeding before ever being exposed to a stud. To have them both in a pen together to breed willy-nilly is completely ignorant and pointless.


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## floridaGirl13 (Jun 5, 2013)

Bunnylady said:
			
		

> Most of the miniature horse people that I know consider it the height of irresponsibility to knowingly breed a dwarf. They are trying very hard to get dwarfism out of the gene pool; throwing a dwarf foal has been the reason for gelding some really, really gorgeous, show-winning studs. Splay footedness is just the beginning; there are so may possible defects associated with dwarfism; some dwarf foals are so deformed they cannot survive, others live in pain their entire lives. Meeting the nutritional needs of dwarfs can be a real challenge, as their digestive systems are often affected by the same genes causing dwarfism. Almost all dwarfs have bite problems (requiring frequent dental procedures), some foals are born with such severely undershot jaws that they can't nurse.
> 
> I'm assuming that your boss is simply ignorant of the full range of possible problems here, rather than them being this careless about their animals. Like most horses, minis continue to grow for about 4-5 years; a filly that is only 2 years old will still be growing and probably still have a fairly narrow pelvis. Giving birth to a normal foal would probably be difficult, but since dwarfs often have disproportionately large heads and thick bodies, the odds of real problems coming up during delivery rise astronomically.
> 
> I've been a member of the Marestare forum for many years. Having watched many, many mature miniature mares bred to normal stallions get into difficulties (several of which resulted in the death of the mare) cured me of any ideas I may have had about breeding miniature horses. I have minis, and I love them, but risking my girls' lives to give birth to a deformed foal? No way!


I would have to agree that my boss may not be aware of all the possible ways this could go wrong. Not to get off topic here but I believe it is mostly her fault we lost one of our mares recently, as she's never been on desander or any other supplements for that matter. However,its not my place to tell her that. She has more "horse years" under her belt than I do, but I'm quite certain I have more common sense, being that I am asking you knowledgeable folks for advice and I don't believe she did the proper research before turning them out together. As I've said before, we are just farm managers,for lack of a more proper term for what we do. I may not call the shots but I can try to convince her. Hoping for a good outcome gets us no where. I agree he should've been gelded some time ago. While we would welcome a mini foal with open arms I am very concerned with the mare's health. How do I convince my boss to do the right thing?!?


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## frustratedearthmother (Jun 5, 2013)

Show this to her?  Maybe she'll take it better coming from other folks than from you?

Good luck!


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## floridaGirl13 (Jun 5, 2013)

She is a special case, I know she loves all her animals however she can be be Unbelievably ignorant at times... I am so thankful for the responses regarding this situation. Though I am trying to be... anonymous about it I don't know how she would react to me posting about her farm/animals. I mean, how do you tell someone that they can't operate their business for S**T and still keep your job? But I am straying from my point. So should I suggest that the vet come and tell us if our little girl has indeed been bred? I do not think she will agree to abort even for the sake of the mare. What to do?


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## currycomb1 (Jun 5, 2013)

i would seperate the 2, right now. watch the filly, and hope she did not take. if the owner understands her life is in jepordy if the pregnancy continues, maybe she will abort her if she is in foal. and yes her very life is in jepordy, next year when it is too late to help her


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## norseofcourse (Jun 6, 2013)

floridaGirl13 said:
			
		

> ... So should I suggest that the vet come and tell us if our little girl has indeed been bred? I do not think she will agree to abort even for the sake of the mare. What to do?


Yes, I think this is a great idea.  A pregnancy and general health check for the filly, especially important if there's any chance she's bred. 

And if at all possible, try and speak with the vet beforehand and let him know that you're concerned about the situation, but feel it would be better coming from a vet, and perhaps he could advise the owner on the problems with breeding a dwarf stallion with poor conformation.  And how it would be better for the filly's health to wait at least a year before breeding her, if she wants to breed at all, with the higher chance for complications that minis have.

He can't tell her to geld the stallion, that's her decision, but maybe he can help give her some things to think about.  Perhaps convince her to separate them at least.

And if the filly is bred, he will want to work with her so she have an idea of timing, and so the filly's health can be the best it can be, and her vaccinations are correct, and he's on speed dial in case of any problems foaling or caring for it.

Good luck, tough situation.


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## Bunnylady (Jun 6, 2013)

http://www.weefoal.com/

This company produces tests that you can use to determine whether the filly is indeed pregnant.


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## floridaGirl13 (Jun 6, 2013)

holy crap! I never even would have thought that there were home tests!!! That is awesome! The price alone might help me convince boss lady to do something about this! So she can take the next step and do what's best for the mini cupcake or at least to know its not too late to separate her from the little stud muffin. This just might work...

 
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

P.s. the mini cupcake in question is my pic.


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## floridaGirl13 (Jun 7, 2013)

Ok folks, just want to say thank you one more time for all of your help! I talked to boss lady today and relayed all of your info and advice. I told here that I was concerned, put all the cards on the table, we discussed the home pregnancy test kit and she's on board! She was also not aware of the home test and just as surprised as I was! The test recommended waiting until 38 days after breeding to test her, so we have 2 weeks before we can test her. Boss lady WILL be ordering the test. Also mentioned the shot to abort if she is indeed pregnant. I got the exact response I had expected, but I explained that it was either abort or potentially lose our little girl. So she is now aware of the severity of the situation.



I cannot thank you enough! Yall may have saved this mare's life! I will update after she has been tested, as I might have more questions.


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## promiseacres (Jun 7, 2013)

You are the one who took the steps not us...we just gave you our honest opinions.


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## floridaGirl13 (Jun 7, 2013)

True, but yall pointed me in the right direction. I don't know squat about minis, and apparently boss lady didn't know too much more than me. And you showed me how to play the cards that are in my hand, so to speak. You guys are awesome! Seriously! Nobody here wants to discuss anything, it's all just kind of matter-of-fact.


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## Rachel.And.Yue (Jun 7, 2013)

floridaGirl13 said:
			
		

> True, but yall pointed me in the right direction. I don't know squat about minis, and apparently boss lady didn't know too much more than me. And you showed me how to play the cards that are in my hand, so to speak. You guys are awesome! Seriously! Nobody here wants to discuss anything, it's all just kind of matter-of-fact.


So glad you have found the help you needed and are taking the right steps to care for your minis. I cannot even imagine how hard a time a 2 yr old mini would have being in foal.

Hope everything goes as planned.

PS your mini is beautiful


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## floridaGirl13 (Jun 7, 2013)

Oh, um by "nobody *here*wants to discuss anything" I mean here on the farm, I am very glad that yall are willing to discuss these kinds of things!


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## MissMini (Sep 29, 2013)

I commend you for your tenacaidy........ignore wrong spelling~~~~~~

MissMini


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