# Considering starting a Fleece Flock



## alpinefarm (Aug 3, 2009)

I am a rug weaver and am looking for just the right sheep breed(s) to start a flock for fleece. I need a long, coarse fleece for my weaving in various colors. Karakul fleece is lovely for my purposes...yet they are rather skittish from my observations and I am new to having sheep. Icelandics are another interest. Soays would be a possibility to start with, given that they shed.

I would also like to be able to milk a ewe or two for my family.

Anyway, I thought I'd get started here and hope to learn...

Rosemary
Colorado


----------



## big brown horse (Aug 3, 2009)




----------



## wynedot55 (Aug 3, 2009)




----------



## mully (Aug 4, 2009)

Get a llama for long fiber to weave they are sweet animals.


----------



## big brown horse (Aug 4, 2009)

I've got a border Cheviot, her fleece can be spun by hand.


----------



## KareyABohr (Sep 1, 2009)

There is an Amish family in my area who raise icelandic, BEAUTIFUL yarn to crochet with. Welcome!


----------



## Ninny (Sep 8, 2009)

I would love this info too!   Are weithers the best for fleece?


----------



## Spinster (Sep 30, 2009)

I've been a handspinner for a long time.  You are on the right track thinking coarse wool is your best bet for rug making.  Karakuls are 'hair' sheep, they do not grow wool, but they are not the only ones who 'shed.'  Don't be afraid of shearing though - with only a few sheep, you can do it with hand shears, or even scissors. You don't have to try to find a shearer.

Look for 'longwool' breeds - Romney, Lincoln, any of the Leicesters (English, Bluefaced, Longwool). The added benefit to longwools is they have the most wonderful LUSTER and take dye beautifully.  If you are more into natural colors, Scottish Blackface and Jacob are also worth checking into. 

You _could_ use Llama or Icelandic - or any other wool or fiber for rugs, and they would be cushy and soft, but I don't think they would be too durable.

For milk - Finns are very 'milky,' but they have lambs by the litter!  triplets, quads, quints, are not unusual.  They need all that milk to feed all those babies. 

Wethers are not necessarily the best for fiber, it's just that they are no worse than ewes.  There are always too many boys - far more than can be used for breeding.   If a ram lamb has very nice fleece, you can 1) try to sell him for breeding, 2) send him to slaughter for meat (! not in my house!) or 3) castrate (wether) him and use him for a 'wool machine' to grow you nice spinning/ felting/ rug fiber.  Getting rid of all those hormones also makes them nicer and more suitable for a pet. You can NEVER make rams pets, for your own safety.

I hope this helped answer the questions in previous posts.


----------



## alpinefarm (Oct 29, 2009)

Spinster said:
			
		

> I've been a handspinner for a long time.  You are on the right track thinking coarse wool is your best bet for rug making.  Karakuls are 'hair' sheep, they do not grow wool, but they are not the only ones who 'shed.'  Don't be afraid of shearing though - with only a few sheep, you can do it with hand shears, or even scissors. You don't have to try to find a shearer.
> 
> Look for 'longwool' breeds - Romney, Lincoln, any of the Leicesters (English, Bluefaced, Longwool). The added benefit to longwools is they have the most wonderful LUSTER and take dye beautifully.  If you are more into natural colors, Scottish Blackface and Jacob are also worth checking into.
> 
> ...


Thank you for tackling all of my questions (and then some). I didn't realize Karakuls were considered a "hair sheep" so that is a revelation. Their "hair" is incredible. I wonder how it crosses with, say, Icelandic wool? Crimped hair? Haha. 

I've read that Scottish Blackface fleece is very "bouncy" and durable for rugs, though I've never handled it. The thing that makes this choosing of breeds difficult is that I am not a spinner. I hope to become one, but that doesn't help me   right now!

I think what I've got to do is spend time at a wool market (we have one in Estes Park every Sept). And visit a sheep dairy I've heard about. Maybe what I want won't be found in one type of sheep and I'll need to  consider having both milking sheep and fleece (or hair!) sheep. Variety would be wonderful anyway. 

Llamas might be a great addition to a sheep flock as protective spirits! though I was hoping the fleece would be a possibility. I love alpacas desperately, but their fleece is *much* too fine for my own rug work.

Well, thank you for helping me gather my wits!


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 29, 2009)

Llamas do need to be shorn on a regular basis. They can heat stress. So you would get your llama fleece to work with. I have my llamas shorn once a year. Make sure you get an actual guard llama though. Not all llamas guard.

My girlfriend has a llama rug and it appears to be durable. It is in a well traveled path.


----------



## no nonsense (Oct 29, 2009)

alpinefarm said:
			
		

> Spinster said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Be careful of what advice you take. Karakuls are NOT hairsheep! The poster is probably thinking about Katahdins. Big difference. If your idea that Karakuls are skittish is the only thing keeping you from them, remember, your flock is what you make it, and many breeds can seem skittish. If you have your heart set on them, get a few ewes, seperate and bottle feed the lambs, sell the ewes and you have your calm, friendly flock. Many of the longwool breeds will give you the same problem as the llama wool, softer fleece which is more appropriate for garments than rugs. Most of the rug wool breeds are those which have not been selected for wool production, such as the feral or unimproved breeds, meat breeds or ornamental breeds such as Jacobs.

You already seem to be on the right track by seeking out those who have actually done what it is you want to. You're also right about not finding one breed to fill multiple uses. You could try a Dorset. They do milk fairly well, and have coarse wool not meant for garment production. Her lamb every year will be decent for the freezer too. Just remember, when you try to do too many things, you do them all fairly, not optimally, and the so-called dual or triple purpose breeds are really just a fallicy. I don't have a good suggestion for a milksheep, other than the Dorset. The dairy that you have in mind will be able to help you better with that. Last I knew, no one was using any one breed in particular in this country for dairy sheep. Some were concentrating on Dorsets, others using their own hybrids, and selecting for milk production.


----------



## alpinefarm (Nov 2, 2009)

Is anyone familiar with Scottish Blackface sheep? Particularly, the "hand" of their fleece?


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 2, 2009)

All it says in my Storey's Guide to Raising Sheep:
Scottish Black Faced Sheep are adapted to cool, damp conditions.  They do well on sparse forage.  The coat has excellent water-shedding properties.

These sheep have an attractive and stylish lightweight fleece of long, coarse wool.  

Doesn't say anything about spinning abilities.


What do you mean exactly by "hand"?  Texture?


----------



## 4boysmama (Nov 2, 2009)

I have Jacob Sheep, and their temperament is wonderful.  It took me only 2 days to get them to come to me when I talked to them, after 2 weeks they would see me a RUN to me.  Their fleece is excellent for spinning and knitting/ weaving.


----------



## no nonsense (Nov 4, 2009)

alpinefarm said:
			
		

> Is anyone familiar with Scottish Blackface sheep? Particularly, the "hand" of their fleece?


The more commonly used term is "handle", and it just means how the wool feels, coarse, fine, soft, etc. Any wool can be spun, hence just about all proponents of their favorite breed claim that the wool is great for hand spinning. Well, yes, but the wool from all breeds is not  great when you have to feel it against your skin.

Scottish Blackface are mainly a meat breed. They are very popular in Ireland and Great Britain, because their heavy fleece is good at repelling the rain. There are variations in strains, but most Scottish Blackface wool is coarse, and is used in rugs and blankets, not so much fine garments which may have contact with the skin. I wish that they were more popular in the US. There is nothing like seeing a flock of these rushing over a hilltop in Ireland. In full fleece they look wild and regal as the wool flows with their movements. They have a high flock instinct, and stay together like velcro when on the move.


----------



## alpinefarm (Nov 20, 2009)

no nonsense said:
			
		

> alpinefarm said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you--great to hear your impressions from having seen them in their "element"...! I'm finding some good info about their fleece on handspinning sites. The fleece is quite long--8-15" is not unusual. And it takes dye well. I am reading that some are bred for a finer fleece, some for coarser. The UK breeders' website has some incredible photos...they are very beautiful, with that wild look!  
The wool is very prized for rugs, as it is "springy" under foot.
And the flock and mothering instinct is really important to me, as our farm is very remote, wild.


----------

