# Moving with an LGD



## newbiekat (Mar 11, 2018)

We are buying a place with their Great Pyrenees staying on the property (moving in about a month). Moving from our little 3 acres, to 37 acres just 10 miles down the road.  After about 4 years of looking we are finally getting a bigger place! AND a Pyrenees ! I've wanted one for SOOOO long but couldn't justify it with our little 3 acres!

He is approx 7 mos old, they said he has been trained, not sure to what extent, but I do know that every time we are around him, he bows down (submissively, it seems like), but also at other times lays down wanting belly rubs... He is out with cattle currently, and they said he does well with chickens. We would have to introduce him to goats though, but that's a different question for another time.

The sellers contacted me today and said that he has started wandering off and she is afraid of something happening to him or someone taking him before we move in. She asked if we wanted to take him home with us (on our current 3 acres) until the move. My question is (I guess I have more than one)... Would that be wise? He would be coming to 3 acres for a month, just to go right back. He has been there since he was young, and every time we have been there he is on the back deck sleeping or somewhere close by... Also, would it be wise to train him here at our current place with the goats for just a month, or wait til we get to the new place to train him with the goats? Will we need to walk the fence line with him when we move...?

I have attached the layout of the property, with the yellow lines being gates into the pasture. The small plot on the bottom of the property (south side) is separated by the driveway and there is only the one entrance into it. If we needed to walk the fence line with him, what would be the best way to do that?


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 11, 2018)

I’m not the most schooled on training LGDs as I’m learning too but I do know that a wandering Pyr will always be a wandering Pyr if you don’t get him to stay home now! 

He needs electric that will get through that dense fur! The electric needs to be such that he can’t dig, climb, or manage to get through with all of that fur. 

I’ll tag a few that have more experience and have been successful multiple times with training theirs. @Southern by choice @babsbag @Latestarter (the last because he follows along and has picked up lots of pointers along the way and will also know who else to tag.) 

Good luck! There’s nothing like Pyr hugs!


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## Southern by choice (Mar 11, 2018)

I don't have much time but a flag goes off for me...

If the seller says...


newbiekat said:


> sellers contacted me today and said that he has started wandering off and she is afraid of something happening to him or someone taking him before we move in. She asked if we wanted to take him home with us (on our current 3 acres) until the move.



Ummmmm.... why would he not wonder off on your 3 acres or 37 acres. BIG FLAG!
If he is on the porch at 7 months how do you know he will even be a guardian for livestock... BIG FLAG

Lastly - you need MORE than 1 dog. PERIOD.


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## Latestarter (Mar 11, 2018)

I don't know enough to really comment... Congrats on your moving up to a larger property. I'm assuming that's what the picture is of, since it's way too large to be your present place. 

Why would someone give away their dog? Especially a very young one, a puppy really? I'm a bit confused as you illustrate the place is fenced (gates?), so how is the dog wandering if he's inside the fence with cattle? And if he's inside with the cattle, then how is he on the back porch for belly scratches?  I don't personally think you taking him now is a great idea for several reasons... I'd guess you aren't set up to have a pyr or you'd already have one. The pup is not trained to goats (yet) so you'd need separate facilities for the dog, to keep them separated at least initially while they both acclimate and you introduce each to the other. You are one month away from moving so are going to have a LOT going on without tackling training a new LGD at the same time. Couple that with the added stress to you, your goats and the LGD.

I know you want a pyr really bad, but there's a lot to consider here.  Looking forward to following this journey you're beginning.


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## newbiekat (Mar 11, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Ummmmm.... why would he not wonder off on your 3 acres or 37 acres. BIG FLAG!
> If he is on the porch at 7 months how do you know he will even be a guardian for livestock... BIG FLAG
> 
> Lastly - you need MORE than 1 dog. PERIOD.



Can you expand a little? I am wondering if they are saying he is wandering off because he isn't on the back deck like he has been, so he is actually doing his job, and they aren't used to it?

If he's on the back deck, why does that mean he won't be a livestock dog? Because he isn't in with the livestock all the time?



Latestarter said:


> Why would someone give away their dog? Especially a very young one, a puppy really?



They are moving to a place with no land. So they are selling out of everything.



Latestarter said:


> I'm a bit confused as you illustrate the place is fenced (gates?), so how is the dog wandering if he's inside the fence with cattle? And if he's inside with the cattle, then how is he on the back porch for belly scratches?



Yes the place is fenced, the two separate pastures. He is in with the cattle, but I guess can get out of the fence? I'm not sure.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 11, 2018)

newbiekat said:


> Can you expand a little? I am wondering if they are saying he is wandering off because he isn't on the back deck like he has been, so he is actually doing his job, and they aren't used to it?
> 
> If he's on the back deck, why does that mean he won't be a livestock dog? Because he isn't in with the livestock all the time?


I think you should ask those questions (first part)
Second part- he should be full time with livestock. Not on the porch. 

I see no problem with you taking him now, but you should have an area for him to transition. 
7 months is a good age 

I really do think you are setting yourself up for failure with trying to put one dog out there. I see it all the time. Lots of behavioral issues because they are pack animals. Just like you wouldn't do one goat, or one sheep, same goes for LGD's. There are some exceptions I have bred and raised a few


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## Baymule (Mar 11, 2018)

What kind of fence is there? Is it a strand barbed wire fence or goat wire or?? Is he actually leaving the property and is he digging out, jumping the fence or crawling through it? Will it even keep your goats in?

We moved and my husband bought me a GP puppy 3 weeks before we moved. We also had an older GP female. The female got the fenced back yard and we put the puppy on a chain (I hated doing that) until we could get a pen built for him. There was nothing here when we bought the place, so we had a LOT of things to do. It was so wonderful to get the place all fenced in. The puppy grew up and he stays on the porch a lot. He jumps in and out of the sheep pasture. Right now he is up front barking. He also comes to the window "asking" to come in. He takes a nap then is ready to go back out. 

You definitely need another dog. Nice to have a reason for another puppy.....LOL 

If you take him now, it will give you some time to work with him and also time to acclimate him to your goats. If he is jumping out, just run a hot wire around your fence, that should stop him.


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## Pastor Dave (Mar 12, 2018)

Welcome from the Hoosier state! 
I do not know anything abt LGD's other than what I have learned on here. But, I do think you should possibly come swap me out properties, and move to Indiana. I will move to KS and take over your "troubles". Here, you will have no need for the dog on the Church property, but you do have to assume role of Pastor.  
Do you have any independent Christian Churches closeby I can seek out employment?

Seriously though, nice looking property. These folk know their LGDs, especially Southern by Choose. Pay attention, glad you joined BYH!


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## newbiekat (Mar 12, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> I think you should ask those questions (first part)



I will do that.



Southern by choice said:


> he should be full time with livestock. Not on the porch.



Good to know.



Southern by choice said:


> I see no problem with you taking him now, but you should have an area for him to transition.
> 7 months is a good age



What kind of area should I have for him to transition with? Dog pen? Cattle panels? In view of the livestock, away from the livestock?



Southern by choice said:


> I really do think you are setting yourself up for failure with trying to put one dog out there. I see it all the time. Lots of behavioral issues because they are pack animals. Just like you wouldn't do one goat, or one sheep, same goes for LGD's. There are some exceptions I have bred and raised a few



I hear ya loud and clear. I would love another one, I would just have to convince my husband that I need another one. He's barely tolerating the fact that we are getting this one with the property. I'm sure once he sees how beneficial they are, he won't mind it, but it's getting to that point first.

@Southern by choice Would it be beneficial to have him taken somewhere to get trained to goats? Or is that something we need to do? I've never trained dogs before (other than the basic commands- sit, stay, heel, etc), especially dogs that have been around livestock.



Baymule said:


> What kind of fence is there? Is it a strand barbed wire fence or goat wire or??



It is a barbed wire fence. We have around 1.5 acres right behind the house that we plan to  keep the goats in until we can get more strands up (in the crook of the v of the property). It will hold the goats. That is our first priority when we move in. We have 10 or 12 strands of barbed wire at our current property that has kept our goats in for 4 years. So that is our plan.



Baymule said:


> Is he actually leaving the property and is he digging out, jumping the fence or crawling through it?



I am not sure. All she said was he has been wandering and is afraid he might disappear. I really wonder if they understand what his instincts are, and if they might be starting to kick in and she doesn't realize that it's normal for a GP to wander. I don't know how he's getting out of the fence, but if it is only 5 or 6 strands, I'm sure he can easily crawl through it.



Pastor Dave said:


> I do think you should possibly come swap me out properties, and move to Indiana. I will move to KS and take over your "troubles". Here, you will have no need for the dog on the Church property, but you do have to assume role of Pastor.



Ha! My husband is actually a pastor so that would work out well!  Buuuuttttt.... see below... I've been wanting this place for a while now!



Pastor Dave said:


> Seriously though, nice looking property.



Thank you very much. This is a property that we looked at 2 years ago but needed probably 50k worth of work put into it... Something we didn't have the time or money to do then. And since then I have not stopped thinking about this place. Every other place we looked at always compared back to this one. But since then, the couple we are buying from put the work in thinking they were gonna be there long term (so they did all of the work as if they were going to stay there long term, not just to flip it and sell it- because there is a difference. I know this because I know the couple), then plans changed, and now they are having to sell off everything to move to a different state! Stinks for them, but is great for us!



Pastor Dave said:


> These folk know their LGDs, especially Southern by Choose. Pay attention, glad you joined BYH!



Yes! This is my go to place to learn about everything livestock related! I am a California girl, transplanted to KS who now has embraced farm life to its fullest. When we first got our goats, this was the place I went to to learn from! Now that a GP is on the table, this is where I come again to learn. I cherish all of the information everyone has here, and I know SBC has a WEALTH of knowledge. So I am looking forward to learning.


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## Baymule (Mar 12, 2018)

Read the LGD forum if you haven't already. It is a goldmine of information. 

I am very happy for you that you are getting your dream farm. You are going to have so much fun!


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## Southern by choice (Mar 12, 2018)

newbiekat said:


> What kind of area should I have for him to transition with? Dog pen? Cattle panels? In view of the livestock, away from the livestock?


Having an area that is fenced well, ajacent to the goats is best. The goats get use to the dog and vice versa... then you take the dog in with the goats and let then get to know each other. Do a search and you should find where I have talked about this. You don't want goats running because they are scared then the dog chases them  etc



newbiekat said:


> @Southern by choice Would it be beneficial to have him taken somewhere to get trained to goats? Or is that something we need to do? I've never trained dogs before (other than the basic commands- sit, stay, heel, etc), especially dogs that have been around livestock.


You need to do this, if the dog has good LGD traits it is not so much training as it is proper introduction and guiding him through maturity


newbiekat said:


> I hear ya loud and clear. I would love another one, I would just have to convince my husband that I need another one. He's barely tolerating the fact that we are getting this one with the property. I'm sure once he sees how beneficial they are, he won't mind it, but it's getting to that point first.


That is a shame because like I said most often when people get a single they end up with issues then they blame the dog then the dog gets sent off... etc etc. Seen it too many times to count. 





newbiekat said:


> I am not sure. All she said was he has been wandering and is afraid he might disappear. I really wonder if they understand what his instincts are, and if they might be starting to kick in and she doesn't realize that it's normal for a GP to wander. I don't know how he's getting out of the fence, but if it is only 5 or 6 strands, I'm sure he can easily crawl through it.


This could be the case or he is bored. Any other LGD's? Just him?


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## newbiekat (Mar 12, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Read the LGD forum if you haven't already. It is a goldmine of information.



I am trying to read through them, but need to give the seller an answer pretty quick here about whether I am going to take him home with us or not. I will eventually read through the threads (like I did with the goats).



Southern by choice said:


> Having an area that is fenced well, adjacent to the goats is best. The goats get use to the dog and vice versa... then you take the dog in with the goats and let then get to know each other. Do a search and you should find where I have talked about this. You don't want goats running because they are scared then the dog chases them  etc



So for our property there is the triangle shaped part and then the square part that juts out to the south. Both are fenced separately (barbed wire) with the driveway in between. Would that be too far away from the goats? I will look for that post, I'm sorry if this is redundant to the questions you have already answered.



Southern by choice said:


> This could be the case or he is bored. Any other LGD's? Just him?



He is the only LGD there.

If we were to get another GP, what age should we be looking at? Similar to his age? Younger? Older? Already trained to a farm? Both needing training?


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## newbiekat (Mar 12, 2018)

So I got a little more information from the seller... The dog is leaving the property and going to a neighbor's who is apparently feeding him. They have gotten rid of the cattle that they had in the pasture so he is not currently guarding anything.... So the boredom thing could be a factor. I told her we would not keep him during this month long transition time, and if he is there when we move then we will figure it out from there.

I am looking into training programs for livestock dogs in the area. Hopefully if we can find one quickly, so we can we take him to them ASAP after we move in. Also, I convinced Hubby to get another one of similar age due to the wealth of knowledge that was being shared with me, that we NEEDED another one. He agreed.

So now we have the issue of a neighbor feeding him... I am not holding my breath for this pup. Either he is there when we get there, or not. We will deal with it when the time comes. If not, we will look at getting pups later on once we get settled.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 12, 2018)

Good! As far as your fencing- you have goats the new property - if I read this right- has 5 strand barbed wire?

Will you have a paddock for the goats or are you letting them  just run the whole of the land? I advice paddocks. Also barbed wire is a big no no. Not good for goats, not good for dogs. Horrible accidents waiting to happen.

If you have fencing adequate for now on the 3 acres I would take the dog now. Spend time with him introducing him to goats and seeing how he does.


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## newbiekat (Mar 13, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Will you have a paddock for the goats or are you letting them  just run the whole of the land?



I would like to have paddocks and rotate pasture eventually, but in the beginning they will probably have access to the whole of the land.



Southern by choice said:


> If you have fencing adequate for now on the 3 acres I would take the dog now. Spend time with him introducing him to goats and seeing how he does.



What is adequate fencing for a GP? We currently have field fence (4" openings) around approx. 1/4 acre that he could stay in which is adjacent to the goats who have 2 acres... Would that be sufficient? Or would I need to put hotwire in it too?

I have attached a pic of our current property, the goats are in the yellow part (but have access to the red part- we just have it closed off right now), and the red part is where our chickens are, and where the dog would go if we brought him home now


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## Baymule (Mar 13, 2018)

I would put him in the 1/4 acre. I sure wouldn't miss a chance for a free LGD that is already at home in your new home. The timing might not be the best with all that you have going on, but it will all work out. I'd say go get the dog.


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## newbiekat (Mar 13, 2018)

@Baymule I like your answer! 

Another couple questions:

-Are there any books that anyone can suggest for me to read up on in the mean time? I am going through the forum threads as well, but would like some sort of training guide while we are transitioning and looking for a formal training program.

-If we are looking at getting another dog, would it be wise to get another male? Female? Similar age? Older?

- For the new property, being the two pastures are separated by the driveway, would I have to keep him in one designated pasture?

- Chickens at the new place are outside of the fenced area... How do I get the dog trained to chickens if they aren't in his fenced area?


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## Baymule (Mar 13, 2018)

I was given a free Great Pyrenees some years back because she killed chickens. They punished her terribly and she HATED my chickens. But-they were in a coop in HER back yard. Eventually, with time and patience, the chickens became "HERS" since they were in HER yard. She became the best darn chicken dog you've ever seen. Same thing with the sheep. She wanted to attack them. We built a small pen in "her" yard and weaned lambs in that pen. They got the benefit of her protection from being in her yard. We sat in the yard and let the lambs out for short periods of time, then put them back in their pen. We put a leash on her, let it drag, and she walked among the lambs. We praised her a LOT! And over time, she realized the lambs belonged to her and she went from wanting to knock them down to protecting them. She is fantastic with the sheep now.

You might  use this same approach with your new dog. Pen the goats up in "HIS" pasture until he gets the idea that they belong to him. Take him in their pen, praise him, lots of love. Let them out in "his" pasture when you can be out there with him, for short periods of time, slowly longer periods of time, then put them up. Keep them penned at night while he has free run of the pasture, he'll get the idea.


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## newbiekat (Mar 14, 2018)

Thanks for your input. I am planning on putting up electric fence in that 1/4 acre today, around the perimeter as well as around the chickens specifically. Then I think I am going to try and get him tomorrow afternoon. He will share a fence line with the goats, and be in the same area as the chickens, just with hot wire around them. Do I need to pen him up during the day until I get home from work? Or let him wander the 1/4 acre?

@Baymule can you explain the small pen idea a little more? Did the sheep get to graze the pasture while you were training her to them? Did you build it out of cattle panels? Electric fence? Sorry I'm asking so many questions.


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## Elle (Mar 14, 2018)

newbiekat said:


> We are buying a place with their Great Pyrenees staying on the property (moving in about a month). Moving from our little 3 acres, to 37 acres just 10 miles down the road.  After about 4 years of looking we are finally getting a bigger place! AND a Pyrenees ! I've wanted one for SOOOO long but couldn't justify it with our little 3 acres!
> 
> He is approx 7 mos old, they said he has been trained, not sure to what extent, but I do know that every time we are around him, he bows down (submissively, it seems like), but also at other times lays down wanting belly rubs... He is out with cattle currently, and they said he does well with chickens. We would have to introduce him to goats though, but that's a different question for another time.
> 
> ...


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## Elle (Mar 14, 2018)

OK, a 7 month old lgd can not be considered a finished lgd.  They are in the teenybopper stages through at least 2 years of age for the males, at least 18 months for females, with variations in any direction, lol.  So best is to have a secure paddock with electric fence wires offset at the top, middle (dog's eyelevel) and just above grass height bottom to discourage digging out.  Then have a secure kennel with a top, bottom and sides.  Kennel mesh fencing is not secure, by the way.  It's easily unwoven by hogs or dogs! Reinforce with goat panel as needed.  Put him in the paddock under supervision after you walk the perimeter.  Do this each time you put him out and use a long line if you need one.  Put him back in the kennel when you cant supervise.  Hopefully you can leave him out longer and longer.  Repeat after moving to the new place.  It may take two weeks to two months to achieve you goal and you may have to recondition him if he gets stupid and leaves his brains under his pillow someday before he matures.  Lgd's that have been messed up by taking inside the house and yard instead of kept near/insight of their livestock are more likely to forget their training and their brains.  You may also be bald by the time he's 3 years old and finished...if all goes smoothly you'll retain all your hair and wonder what I was talking about! lol

Raising Maremma now since 2oo6  owned one or more since 2001


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## Baymule (Mar 14, 2018)

We got Paris (our female) when we still lived in town at our old house. Paris was in the back yard with the chicken coop. She was in a small place. 

We moved to 8 acres. We fenced a back yard for Paris. So far, so good. Trying to put her in a larger area was a failure, she loved her back yard! So picture your typical small, in town back yard and that's what we have. After many failed attempts to introduce her to the sheep, I had to put it on the back burner until I figured out what to do. 

In a corner of the yard, we used cow panels and wire to build a small pen and put a small shelter (on skids) in it. We weaned several lambs in it. This put them on Paris's ground. She inadvertently became their protector since she protected her yard. It was very small, the lamb got free feed hay, were fed pellets twice a day and there was deep grass in the back yard. The grass had driven my husband nuts, wanting to cut it, but I had plans for that grass! LOL 

This is the pen, the shelter and the lambs.







After a couple of weeks, we let the lambs out with Paris while we sat in the yard to supervise. She wore a leash and we let it drag.





With time and patience, she accepted the lambs as hers and eventually she accepted the sheep as hers too. 

This is what worked for me and my dog. She was/is location bound, she felt safe in her small yard. We ran a temporary fence from the back yard up to the front pasture and when all the gates are open, she can run all the way to the front fence, where she loves to bark at trucks. I am slowly transitioning her out of the back yard, LOL. Since I couldn't take her to the sheep, I brought the sheep to her. 

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/paris-has-begun-lamb-training.33844/


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## Elle (Mar 15, 2018)

This works when you aren't worried about escape and roaming. Once that starts, they are hard to break...thus my suggestion for the hot wire to keep the dog wary of fences.  I want to add that hip dysplasia is really not so much a genetic breeding flaw as a result of not keeping the dog in a large enough area that allows for them to move freely and stretch out.  I've only seen it in dogs kept for more than a year as a youngster in tight quarters such as kennel runs. Your back yard was great, and a great way to transition her to livestock bonding.  I suggested the kennel run for that purpose only, with the goal for it to be used for only two weeks to two months as the young male grew and bonded with their flock and clan.  Many of the east coast states are passing legislation that will outlaw the use of lgd's.  I recently learned that New Jersey has a law that prohibits the dog being outside in kennel, shed or barn or even pastures for more than 15-20 minutes at a time. No way an lgd can be any kind of predator control method with that insane legislation in place.  So just keep your heads up and make sure you are in very nearly constant contact with your legislators or you will find similar laws passed in your state.  That's how it starts, insanity state by state.  I have spoken with legislators that tell me that's how they create legislation.  By basically copying legislation that successfully passed in other states, ...usually California! The job of a farmer is similar to a CEO of a major corporation with one person doing most of the work!


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## newbiekat (Mar 15, 2018)

@Elle Thank you very much for your help!

I know he is far from a mature adult, and still needs a lot of work!

So the 1/4 acre is a good size pen as long as there is hot wire got it. Now what about penning him up while we are at work? What size pen for that? We have a 4x6 cage that we usually use to transport the goats in the back of the pick up. He wouldn't be able to break out of that... But is that too small to stay in during the day?

Also, do you think it would confuse him to walk the perimeter of this place just to move to a new place and do it all over again in a few weeks?


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## Elle (Mar 15, 2018)

A cage is ok once or twice but it's too small for him to be kept in longer term.  His bones won't grow right. This is a huge problem for our larger to giant dogs, and adds to the health issues caused by the toxins in commercial dog food kibble and vaccines and other medical procedures some of which are legislated death.  (I have lost many to that rabies shot, in20016 alone I lost six mature working lgds in the 24 hours to 2 months subsequent to that death needle.  Many others are losing dogs or they have noticed their dogs' health has been destroyed.  Research is out there to prove it, and I can direct you to read it for yourself.  As far as confusion,...he needs to learn to follow your lead according to your needs the needs of your operation.  To survive in today's environment the farm operation needs to remain flexible to some extent.  He needs to learn to become your partner.

Oh, and we specialize in providing finished or nearly finished working Maremma lgd's to newbies and others with little time or skills to get a puppy from 12 week old infant/toddler/teenybopper to 30 months finished. I've begun to get calls from people who say they have been told that my lgd's are turnkey predator control.  I guess it seems that way when the client actually follows directions! lol  Plus the older nearly adult pup is more settled...less room for error and has been conditioned to move from one paddock to another and from pasture to feedlot situation per the seasonal change /need.  

I have moved whole packs of dogs back and forth across the country.  No confusion.  I've moved single individuals ...I once sold a finished male to some folks that lied to me about their situation, I guess I should have gone to the courthouse and checked deeds! Anyway, the female he was to support was not fixed and came into heat, drawing in pitts and all manner of dogs which he kept away from her, she had only his puppies!  The pittie died, my male barely lived to heal from his jugular injury and was subsequently abandoned.  I went back down there, 6 hours drive, and parked outside the gate and whistled my whistle for my quarterhorse mare.  He came  running out and jumped in my truck and we went home.  I took a pack and a small goat herd and poultry flock over 1,000 miles and moved the into no fences on a 1,100 acre ranch situated surrounded by conservation lands.  No straying. They stayed with the flock, stalled at night, and stayed on the right side of the country road and the river.  I didn't even walk THAT whole perimeter with them!  When we arrived I was barely able to walk at all due to injuries from  a rear end collision with my truck a couple of months prior to the trek.  When spring arrived we packed up the pack, less the 5 that had been brought along to deliver to new owners along the way, and we arrived back where they had been born and they settled right back in. So not every experience is going to go that way but I started out there and waited for folks to get themselves organized ...for two weeks, and was there for 6 months. Just focus on developing your partner in predator control.  These dogs think and are smarter than border collies.  Spend some time outside there with them daily, short periods of time multiple times a day during the work week, longer hours on weekends.  Transition from kennel to yard to pasture.  Careful use of tethers to help with this transition can be useful if your state has not already outlawed their use. I don't know how many have done so but as of last fall, New Jersey and Pennsylvania went nuts.


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## Baymule (Mar 15, 2018)

That IS insane. Can't leave your dog outside longer than 20 minutes?  What a bunch of idiots. @Elle I have experience with just my two GP's, nowhere near your knowledge and experience. I appreciate your input here. But I have a question......you joined in 2014 -- where have you been?  I'm glad that you are here now and joining in the conversations.


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## newbiekat (Mar 16, 2018)

Wow! Thank you for all of that info!

Sadly, I was supposed to pick up the pup last night, however, the owners told me that they hadn't seen him all day, and that was the longest he has been gone. I asked her to keep me posted if she saw him again, and she never did. So I think the neighbors have him for good... He is not on the property anymore. 

All of this was great information to learn, and I plan to continue to learn as time goes on. Hopefully we will get a LGD (or two ) when the time is right.

Thank you again for all your help and support.

Oh, and I agree with Baymule, where has this wealth of knowledge been since 2014??? Your input (at least in my case) has been very beneficial!  Thank you again!!

Baymule- I am very thankful for your help too!


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## Baymule (Mar 17, 2018)

There are others here that are a whole lot smarter than me about LGD's. I just posted what worked for me, if that helped you, I am glad about that.


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## newbiekat (Mar 27, 2018)

So, I hate to revisit this post, but I just learned that the pup was recently taken to the local shelter. So now, instead of getting the dog with the house, I will need to adopt him out of the shelter If I still want him. He is a very people friendly dog, has basic training commands down, and loves belly rubs- this is what I was told from a friend (not related to the situation at all) who got the inside scoop on how the dog made it to the shelter. So... is he too attached to humans at this point? Or would it still be worth it to adopt him out of the shelter and try to get him socialized with my goats? 

From what I understand, after the people sold their cattle the dog started roaming the neighborhood.  Someone didn't like the 'stray' dog in her nice neighborhood, so after the second or third day straight that he was wandering close to her place, my friend believes she called local pd to take the dog to the shelter to "get it out of her sight".


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## Mike CHS (Mar 27, 2018)

@Southern by choice is probably the best reference for this one.  Dogs that roam the neighborhood around our area don't survive very long since everyone has livestock.


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## Baymule (Mar 28, 2018)

I would take a chance on this dog. Our male Great Pyrenees is people friendly, but stays home-we have good fences. Yes he can jump out, but I corrected him the first time and there hasn't been another incident. Even if this dog is not bonded to your livestock and just wants to hang out on the farm, just his mere presence will be a deterrent to predators. Our male would rather hang out with us, but at night he is running the fence line barking a warning. He protects the farm, not necessarily individual sheep, but the whole place. 

Besides the adoption fee, what do you have to lose? The poor dog was lonely, bored and was looking for someone or something to do. Shame on his former owners. I would sooooooo go get him!


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## Baymule (Mar 28, 2018)

I wanted to add that our front gate stays closed to keep stray dogs out, and the neighbor's French bulldog, Pepe. When people come over, Trip meets them at the gate, never threatens anybody, never runs out the gate and escorts their vehicle to the house.


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## newbiekat (Mar 28, 2018)

Thank you @Baymule for confirming my desire to get this dog! If there is anyone else that is against it, please share, I would love to know your reasoning why. This would be a new venture for me and I love to listen to all sides as we progress (or don't) into this situation!

We don't have gates into our new property at the driveways, just fenced and gated pastures, so if he lived outside of the pasture, he could wander away from the property if he wanted to.

Now, being he is just under a year old, and (to my knowledge) has never seen goats or chickens, would it be wise to put him on a cable in that 1/4 acre at my current property? Or just let him free in that 1/4 acre? He would be sharing the fence with the goats, and there is hot wire around the chickens so he couldnt get to them

Also, if you say cable him, how long of a cable should I get?


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 28, 2018)

My ONLY reluctance is that Pyrs are wanderers (to protect and increase the area they protect.) You’ll have to have good enough fences to keep him in or you’ll never be able to trust him loose. 

Containing him will take no climb 2x4 horse fence with at least one Hotwire if not two. (Low enough to discourage digging/climbing and high enough to discourage jumping.) 

As long as he’s properly introduced to your livestock and knows that they belong, he will guard them as part of his property whether or not he’s actually bonded to them.


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 28, 2018)

Also @Southern by choice is having trouble getting the site to load so she’s having difficulty being online.


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## newbiekat (Mar 28, 2018)

Thank you. Now when you say "properly introduced", can you explain a little more? I was planning on putting him in the 1/4 acre, on a cable tie out, and let him meet the chickens and goats through the fence, at least for a couple weeks. If that seems to go well then I'll start walking him in the pasture with the goats. Does that sound okay?

I was planning on putting hot wire throughout the new pasture anyways for the goats' sake, so there will be hot wire around the pasture.


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 28, 2018)

That’s a good introduction plan. Start on leash and gradually make your way to off lead. Don’t leave him with them unsupervised until you know you can trust him and start with very short periods of time and gradually increase. 

Having a way to expel energy will help too so make sure he’s getting exercise. 

He will need trained to the hot wire too. They have enough hair to insulate a shock so getting them to respect it can take time. 

**I’m not a trainer of LGDs by any means. I’ve had 3 and I learn more with each one. 

They think independently and they are very smart. Something to keep in mind.


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 28, 2018)

You want him to bond with you too. He needs to want to please you. (Not in the same sense as an obedience dog.)


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## Mike CHS (Mar 28, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> Also @Southern by choice is having trouble getting the site to load so she’s having difficulty being online.



I have had the same issue periodically.  It occasionally lasts for a day or more.


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 28, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> I have had the same issue periodically.  It occasionally lasts for a day or more.



I’ve had that issue too. She and I just talked about the trouble that she was having currently.


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## Baymule (Mar 28, 2018)

I also have had problems with opening the site. FRUSTRATING!

newbiekat you are on the right track. Now, go get the dog! Don't want him to be put down or shipped off to a looney-_save_-LGD's-from-being-put-outside-to-_work_-rescue sort of place.


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## Latestarter (Mar 28, 2018)

I agree, go get the dog! Even if he becomes a companion/family dog, he will still protect all within his area that he knows is yours. I would hesitate to tie him off to a cable. They are very smart animals and he could develop resentment or other issues. Lots more info here in threads, but for now, go get him!


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## newbiekat (Apr 5, 2018)

Well, another disappointing venture... As I thought we were onto something, I called the shelter, who led me to the animal hospital, who led me to animal control, who told me that he got a call for the dog several weeks back. Come to find out, the dog was not picked up by animal control, but had made it to the shelter at some point (by means of someone else I guess) within the last few weeks and was already adopted out by the time I had called. 

So... again, another failed attempt at getting the dog. *sigh* I guess it just wasn't meant to be....


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## Latestarter (Apr 5, 2018)

sorry... guess it wasn't meant to be.


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## Baymule (Apr 5, 2018)

Well that sucks. But you will find another dog and it will be the right one for you.


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