# The calf is at it again! UGH!



## neener92 (Jun 14, 2012)

I have an anemic bottle calf, she hasn't been doing the greatest and just got over her scours. She is very skinny and poor looking. She gets calf milk twice daily. What do I do about her being anemic and how can I put weight on her? She have free choice grain/hay and access to water all the time.


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## ksalvagno (Jun 14, 2012)

What about getting some iron into her. Not sure if you can use Red Cell on calves. Hopefully a cattle person will be on soon.


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## redtailgal (Jun 14, 2012)

A few questions:

How old is she and what breed?

What caused her scours?

How was she treated?

How do you know she is anemic?

When you say calf milk, are you meaning powdered milk replacer?  What brand?  How much is she being fed? 

To answer your question, yes, she can have redcell.  I'd give about 2 ounces (drenched or in her bottle) every other day until she is no longer anemic.  BUT, you need to know why she is anemic and if this is really what is going on.  Scours dont usually cause anemia.

Go look at her gums and the inside of her lower eyelid.  If she is anemic they will be very pale.  Anemia is a symptom of something else.  If she is anemic, you can and should treat her for it, but you must figure what is causing it (and its not scours) and treat that as well.


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## sod (Jun 14, 2012)

i would take the hay away first off. that young of age they should only get calf feed otherwise they will not eat a sufficient ammount of energy and protein. you could go with a higher grade calf feed 18-20 % protein. another thing you could try is three time a day feeding. if the calf is still scouring give it 4 cloves of fresh garlic. the garlic will (should) kill the bacteria causing the scours. it works great for me.


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## redtailgal (Jun 14, 2012)

Garlic does have some powerful germ killing properties.  However, feeding large amounts (more than say a teaspoon a week) can cause some problems.  Garlic contains a substance called  thiosulphate which is not metabolized well in ruminants.  It can quickly build up in there system and cause a problem with their hemoglobin......namely it causes them to become profoundly anemic.

Fed in low does over a long period of time can result in damaged liver and kidneys.

It's my opinion that while Garlic can be very beneficial in natural husbandry, it should be used wisely and with plenty of caution.  FYI......onions have an even higher amount of  thiosulphate.  There have been cattle that have died from grazing in a wild onion intense pasture.

We keep hay in available to calves from day one.  We've never had a problem with it.  For a scouring animal, we take away all feed EXCEPT the hay.  Older animals need the long stem roughage to keep the rumen active, while young ones need it to help develop the rumen.

I'm trying to find some websites for you concerning this matter.  I'll post again when I find them.


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## redtailgal (Jun 14, 2012)

Members of the genus Allium contain the cultivated garlic, wild garlic and onion. Animals eating the wild onion seldom become sick, but their meat and milk may become tainted. In the United States, the cultivated onion has caused fatal poisoning in cattle and horses, especially in the state of Oregon where onions are grown commercially and large amounts are fed to livestock (1).

quote from :  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1697718/pdf/canvetj00385-0050.pdf


An alkaloid, N-propyl disulphide, present in both cultivated and wild onions, chives, and garlic, affects the enzyme, glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase in RBCs thereby interfering with the hexose monophosphate pathway [1,2]. Oxidation of hemoglobin results because there is insufficient phosphate dehydrogenase or glutathione to protect the RBCs from oxidative injury [1]. The oxidized hemoglobin precipitates in the RBCs to form Heinz bodies. The cells containing Heinz bodies are removed by the spleen with the resulting anemia being proportional to the number of Heinz bodies formed and the rate at which the spleen removes the damaged cells. Cattle are the most susceptible to onion poisoning; horses and dogs are intermediate; and sheep and goats are the most resistant [3-8]. Pregnant ewes are able to eat a diet consisting of 90 to 100 percent cull onions without developing a severe anemia as would cattle on a ration with more than 25 percent dry matter of onions. The sheep's adaptation to onions appears to be related to the ability of the animal's rumen microflora to rapidly change to a population of organisms capable of reducing the sulfide in the onions [9]. Sheep are therefore able to metabolize the sulfide in the rumen more effectively than can cattle, thus preventing a progressive Heinz body anemia from developing

quote from:  http://www.homoeopathyclassical.com/article_plant_poisoning.html


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## sod (Jun 15, 2012)

the hay wouldn't hurt anything, however if you want to put weight on the calf it will have a higher daily rate of gain if it wasn't filling up on hay. calf will get more out of the calf starter than it will on any baled hay


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## redtailgal (Jun 15, 2012)

any update on the calf in question?


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## neener92 (Jun 15, 2012)

She is a black angus born 4-25-12.

She was off and on about drinking her bottle, we treated with penicillin for a few days, and when that didn't clear it up a few days later she got LA200 and it disappeared.

Last evening she was acting great running around playing even wanting a bottle! She never really wants a bottle morning or evening, and she only drinks it cold. Yesterday she drank a warm bottle in the middle of the day! But, I was playing with her and decided to look at her eyelids and saw they were pale so, that is how I know she's anemic. 

Powdered calf milk, save a calf. This is the only type of milk replacer our feed store carries.

I don't know what would cause it, I've had several bottle calves and none have been this much trouble without explanation.

As far as the hay goes, she doesn't eat it the lambs do, she has access to it but she prefers grain.

Yesterday I fed her 3x a day the middle bottle being mostly water and some molasses for energy, I also gave her a vitamin B12 shot and probiotics.

I will have to go to town today, I'll get some red cell.


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## redtailgal (Jun 15, 2012)

With her age it could have been a coccidia infection, they cause some bleeding in the GI  tract, so that could explain the anemia.

I'd suggest going ahead with red cell, but if she were mine I'd treat her for coccidiosis (even though the scours are over, the coccidia would still be in there).  Those lil buggers can do some serious damage and stop her growth.  I am assuming that you'll want this heifer bred one day, so you'll need to make sure that her growth isnt stunted.

I had a calf like that once.  Would ONLY drink a cold bottle!  Makes no sense to me, lol.


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## neener92 (Jun 15, 2012)

I was think cocci, but I was wondering what others though. Could I mix corid in her bottle? How much?

Yea, we want her to replace her mother who passed away after her birth.

It's a pain cause the milk replacer is hard to mix that way, but today she drank a warm bottle. Perhaps she changed her mind. Crazy thing!


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## redtailgal (Jun 15, 2012)

It depends on which type of Corid you get as to how much.  Read the label, and yep you can put it in her bottle.

lol, your supposed to read her mind and KNOW whether she wants her bottle warm or cold, didnt you know that?


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## neener92 (Jun 15, 2012)

Thank you! I'll give it to her in her evening bottles.

Haha, I guess I am. She is a little brat!


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## neener92 (Jun 15, 2012)

Got the red cell and corid, put it in a bottle of milk and of course she won't drink it. So, I got the bottle of red cell and drenched her.....what a nightmare, she spit most of it out. I don't even know if I gave her enough, I'm not used to measuring in oz. Who knows. I also can't figure out the corid stuff....UGH!  Can red cell be given to sheep? Just wondering.


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## elevan (Jun 15, 2012)

neener92 said:
			
		

> Can red cell be given to sheep? Just wondering.


I wouldn't.  It has a fair amount of copper in it and sheep shouldn't have that much.


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## SheepGirl (Jun 16, 2012)

elevan said:
			
		

> neener92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


X2. Scroll down to the bottom where it says "Caution" and it says it shouldn't be given to copper-sensitive animals such as sheep.


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## neener92 (Jun 19, 2012)

Thanks SG!

Now I have a bloated ewe? She has been on the same pasture for 2 weeks, this morning she was fine and tonight when I went to feed she was bloated. My sheep haven't been grain fed since winter so I don't know what would have caused her to bloat? Her belly looks bloated and she's got a frothy mouth....HELP!


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 20, 2012)

parasites can lead to bloat, or parasites can lead to overeating disease.  

How is she doing today?


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## neener92 (Jun 20, 2012)

They were just wormed with cydectin about a week and a half ago, also vaccinated for overeating this spring.

She is acting normal today. Dad said she might have been hot, bloated, or have rabies.


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## neener92 (Jun 28, 2012)

The calf is scouring/anemic again. I'm seriously starting to think something has been wrong with her since birth, she's never been 'normal'. I gave her some LA200 and Red Cell this morning after she decided the bottle was a monster. She is driving me nuts!


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## Cricket (Jun 28, 2012)

Did you go to the Corid website for the calculator?  The first time I treated my calf for Cocci, I split the dose a.m. and p.m.--it was the wrong thing to do, as he got runny poop within 5 days.  The second time, I did it once a day and he's been good for a couple of weeks.  (He never acted 'off', tho).  The website will calculate by the  tablespoon or tsp, so it's easier.  Mine was born 4/19  and is just about off milk and onto grain and hay.   Is the calf scours whitish or clay/green?


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## neener92 (Jun 28, 2012)

When I did the corid treatment I did it once a day. She has acted off since day one, she nibbles on grain/hay but doesn't really eat it. It's grey/yellow looking.


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## redtailgal (Jun 28, 2012)

Freshen me up on the stats;

How old, what BRAND of milk replacer and how much is she drinking and how often?

Yellow is typically a milk scour  from either too rich of milk (mixed too strongly) too much milk at once, or feeding too often.

The grey color is typically a sign of a pretty off balance gut.  

I would take her off the milk completely for 24 hours, and dose her heavily with Probios (you cant over dose Probios, so stick it to her).  Then, once the poop looks better start her back on the milk formula very slowly..........here's how I do it:

http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2952-calves-scours


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## neener92 (Jun 28, 2012)

Born 4/25, and the milk is Save a Calf. She's been drinking 1 bottle 2x a day, pretty well. Around 9am and then again at around 9pm.

I mix the milk as directed, one cup (comes in the bag) to one full standard size calf bottle.

I'll have to get some more probiotics tomorrow.


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## redtailgal (Jun 28, 2012)

That all sounds good. 

Cut that milk out for a day, and give the system a chance to rest.


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