# update, good ending :) (pregnant ewe off feed... need advice)



## Spidey (Jan 20, 2019)

Hello everyone! I have a 6 /7ish year old ewe who is pregnant (always has twins). Due sometime in the next month. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.


Diet- weedy pasture (although the pasture is quite dormant at the moment) and local grass hay. Free choice mineral and free choice salt.


So its been a odd week with her... this is what has happened so far.

Monday morning I went to the barn to let the sheep out. My older ewe (Salty) was foaming at the mouth (white foam and then green smelly foam a bit later), shaking, on her feet and looking quite grim. She didn't appear bloated, but it was dark and I was rushed. I tried looking down her throat for a stuck object- didn't see anything, but couldn't really see either. Treated for bloat (drenched with canola oil and baking soda dissolved in water) and I gave her nutridrench. She perked up quickly, and by mid day was eating again. Tues morning she was 95% normal looking. I gave her a little molasses. Wed morning she was back to 100%.


Wednesday I walked the pasture looking for poisonous plants and pulled up a few things I wasn't sure of. 


Sunday morning, she's not eating, sunken sides, but still strong enough to need 2 people to drench her. I gave her a little molasses. Waited an hour... just gave her nutridrench 20 minutes ago. Still not eating, although she acts interested. No obvious signs of labor. 


So, the odd part. Last night I called them in and she was super perky and happy. I refilled the mineral (it has been disappeared quickly this week) and gave them about a cup. She stood there and pretty much ate it all. 


I have no idea whats happening. At first I thought bloat. Now I'm leaning more towards low blood sugar, and I do wonder if she's eating something weird in her pasture or if its from eating tons of mineral all week.


Any ideas?


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 20, 2019)

I don’t know anything about sheep, but with my dairy goats I’d be checking her for pregnancy toxemia/ketosis. Watch for milk fever too. She doesn’t fit all the symptoms, bit I’d be checking especially since the drench seems to be helping. What’s her temp?


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## Mini Horses (Jan 20, 2019)

I agree with GW.  Will she eat any grain?  Will she eat bread?  If the drench is helping it does "point" to a need for carbs.   Any alfalfa around?  Even pellets.   Once down, hard to get them back so it's pretty urgent to get her on a course of improvement   which your are attempting to do, I know.

Takes a LOT to heat body and may not be enough nutrition in that grass to then support her & kids.    That would be my first guess.  I have goats, not sheep but, similar in many things.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 20, 2019)

Mini Horses said:


> If the drench is helping it does "point" to a need for carbs.


Yep, when you look at the ingredients for Nutri-drench, the first one is Propylene Glycol-- which is what is used for treatment in pregnancy toxemia. She is in the most common window for toxemia. I hope some other sheep folks come have some ideas. @Mike CHS @Baymule @Sheepshape @misfitmorgan @mysunwolf ?


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## Mike CHS (Jan 20, 2019)

The symptoms for sheep and goats pretty much follow the same causes for most things.  Was the foaming at the mouth sort of like blowing bubbles?  If so she could be suffering from That usually causes a degree of "bubble blowing"which could indicate pneumonia.


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## Spidey (Jan 20, 2019)

firstly, thank you all for responding!!

After the nutridrench, she perked up but still wasn't eating the hay.  I offered her a handful of green grass and she ate that right up.  She continued to ignore the hay, but she was perky and if it wasn't for her sunken sides, I would have thought all was well.  I have 1 small area of unfenced green pasture, so I set up a portable net fence and she spent the day eating the last of the green grass and plants.  Acting totally normal and happy. 

re: mouth foam vs bubbles.  I have a goat that is very frantic when he eats and he frequently chokes on his food and vomits up foam.  This was just like that, so thats why on Monday I thought she was choking.  I haven't seen the foam since.  Perhaps last Monday's foam has nothing to do with todays problem?  For both "events' she was given nutridrench.  I only treated for bloat on Monday, even though I didn't visually see her bloated (but she did have foam).  Perhaps it was the nutridrench that cured her Monday morning and Sunday morning??  Monday morning she was so bad, that I felt she was only hours from death...  she was still on her feet, but very wobbly.  If she went down, that would have been it I think. 

I haven't taken her temp yet.  I'll try tonight if I can get someone to hold her.

I'm concerned that she'll decline again and I have a feeling she most likely will.  I don't have alfalfa, alfalfa pellets or grain on hand.  Tomorrow I will buy whatever I need to support her nutritionally if food quality is the problem.  Any recommendations for what I should get?

I have never dealt with pregnancy toxemia before.  I need to read about it, but does anyone have any experience or advice?

(pictures attached).  These pics were from this morning.  I honestly don't think she ate any hay all night.  She's usually very wide and full.


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## babsbag (Jan 20, 2019)

Perhaps the sunken sides could be from lambs dropping?  I raise goats but I would agree with the toxemia. It happens when they just can't get enough nutrients to support the growing kids/lambs. Good hay, some sheep pellets, power punch, anything with calories. Chaffehay if you can find any would help, just don't let her gorge on anything that she isn't used to eating.


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## Mike CHS (Jan 20, 2019)

I'm adding what is said in the Merck Vet Manual so if nothing else you will have the link.  It doesn't add much beyond what has already been added but at least you will have the link if you don't already.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/meta...-lipidosis/pregnancy-toxemia-in-ewes-and-does

*Treatment:*
Ewes or does in the early stages (ie, are ambulatory, have a decreased appetite for grain, and are showing few nervous signs) can often be treated successfully with oral propylene glycol (60 mL, bid, for 3 days, or 100 mL/day). Adding oral calcium (12.5 g calcium lactate), oral potassium (7.5 g KCl), and insulin (0.4 IU/kg/day, SC) has increased survival rates. Oral commercial calf electrolyte solutions containing glucose may also be given by stomach tube at a dose of 3–4 L, qid, or drenched as a concentrated solution. It may also be prudent to induce parturition/abortion if the ewe or doe is also thin or fat and cannot manage fetal demands that late in pregnancy. This can be done by administering dexamethasone (20 mg, IV or IM). Parturition is expected within 24–72 hr, with most animals giving birth within 36 hr. Does may also benefit by the addition of prostaglandin F2α (dinoprost [10 mg, IM] or cloprostenol [75 mcg/45 kg body wt]). Contributing factors (eg, nutrition, housing, illness, other stressors) should be corrected for the group, and feeding management assessed (eg, adequate feeder space, feeding frequency, protection from adverse weather).


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## Baymule (Jan 20, 2019)

I've not had any of my sheep show such symptoms, so I am reading this with great interest.  I sure hope your ewe recovers and does well.


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## Mike CHS (Jan 20, 2019)

Same here Bay!


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 20, 2019)

We have dealt with it in our dairy goats. Both times it was a rather mild case. I believe the the one doe got it because she was heavy. The other was a young doe with twins, and we were in a horrible rainy spell so the goats were just lounging in the barn all day and not getting the proper exercise. 

I would be checking her urine and blood. You can get keto sticks from most pharmacies, this will help you determine with it is toxemia. 
If you have a vet who will run blood work that is great (have the calcium checked also). 

Taking the temp is very important. 

We treated with Propylene Glycol. We didn't have to give high doses, but I did give it 3x a day, then slowly backed it down after kidding. We would give CMPK also, just to cover our bases. Giving probiotics is also a good idea. 
We would offer good quality alfalfa (they always get some anyway) BUT we would also offer a lesser quality grass hay. We have found that when goats are "off" they may not want really rich hay or feed, though it should certainly be offered. It is important to keep that rumen going. I can always drench with other goodies if needed.  

I don't know if your ewe is dealing this or not- you really should consult a vet. Just sharing what we have done


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## Spidey (Jan 20, 2019)

I called the sheep into the barn for the night.  I got some alfalfa from a neighbor to hold me over until tomorrow.  She ate with gusto, and looks totally normal, plus she ate the last of the green grass from the area I fenced in today.  I'm heading to the store in the morning to get propylene glycol, grain, alfalfa pellets and more alfalfa.  I'm hoping that I can treat with propylene glycol and then offer grain and alfalfa to spark her appetite (as it was sparked today).

Its really grim reading everything about pregnancy toxemia... like the chances of her making it are really slim even if caught very early.  I've never dealt with this before.  She is older and was overfat entering pregnancy.  Has anyone caught pregnancy toxemia early?  I'd love to hear outcomes so I can prepare myself.

In the picture, she's the girl on the right.  Full looking belly tonight, so thats good.  I'm dreading going out there in the morning, but I will go with nutridrench just incase.  I hope she's okay, of course she's my best producer and favorite sheep.


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## Spidey (Jan 20, 2019)

forgot to reload and just saw your post Goat Whisperer.  Thank you- I didn't get to temp her tonight, but in the morning my husband will be back home and I'll have the extra hands to get the ram out and hold her still.

Keto sticks are a great idea- I'll look for them tomorrow as well.  

Its good to hear that your goat recovered with early treatment. 

I'll keep everyone updated.  Thank you all so much- I really appreciate the fast and kind advice xx


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## Baymule (Jan 20, 2019)

Please do let us know how she is doing. Give her a scratch in her favorite place from her Aunt Baymule.


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## Sheepshape (Jan 20, 2019)

Only just seen this thread. It sounds like "Twin Lamb Disease' to me....toxaemia.

After propylene glycol the key is to feed, feed, feed......concentrated carbohydrates are the best.

A couple of years back I had a ewe with 'Twin Lamb' who went on to produce two big healthy lambs about 10 days later after feeding her copiously. I only left her with the one lamb, but both did well.

My very best wishes to you.


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## Spidey (Jan 21, 2019)

she seems to be doing great.  I've been keeping the hay rack full with alfalfa (which she prefers over grass hay) and giving her apple slices drizzled in molasses every few hours.  I didn't realize that my farm store was closed today, so after lunch I'm heading out in the opposite direction to try and get everything that I need.  I'm literally in the middle of nowhere, lol.  She was first exposed to the ram on 9/1 and I saw them breed on 9/15.  So anywhere from Jan 26 to Feb 9th, give or take a few days.


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## Sheepshape (Jan 22, 2019)

Sheep love bread, sweet biscuits, even chocolate.....now, i'm not advocating this as a regular ovine diet, but it will certainly fill her up with calories and keep her blood sugar up whilst you get more conventional sheep food.


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## Spidey (Jan 22, 2019)

good to know Sheepshape!  Her favorite treat is animal cookies (the ones made for people)!  I got everything I needed and she's been enjoying alfalfa pellets, apples and molasses, plus alfalfa and free choice grass hay.  I haven't added any grain in.  She's doing really well and acting completely normal.  I'm going to keep checking on her several times a day, but perhaps things will stay stable and she'll be fine.  From what I've read, outcomes seem quite grim, even if caught early, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Mike CHS (Jan 22, 2019)

I'm happy for you and especially the sheep.


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## Sheepshape (Jan 23, 2019)

Spidey said:


> From what I've read, outcomes seem quite grim, even if caught early,


This is definitely the case, but it's not inevitable.Her metabolic needs are huge in the last few weeks of pregnancy and even a bit of lameness, eye disease or just plain 'belly too full of lamb to have room to eat' can cause Twin Lamb. Now your girl is not able to able to eat the vast amounts of high bulk stuff she would normally relish, so high calorie, low bulk, concentrated foods are the key. Over here we have 'Breeding ewe nuts/rolls' which are 18% protein, molasses, vitamins, minerals etc in small rolls. Sheep love them. I'm sure you have something similar.
Start with just a small amount daily and build it up as she could get explosive diarrhoea due to sugars if her gut is not used to them. Tolerance develops very quickly and she'll soon be able to chomp loads.
Reduce her metabolic needs......keep her relatively warm indoors (no need for heated premises) and confine her in a relatively small area such that she does not have to exercise too much or compete for food.
If you do these things, she is likely to be fine.
If she has more two or more lambs, then just leave her with one.
Remember that she will need to have 'special measures' taken after lambing, with lots of extra food until her lamb is weaning.
As mentioned earlier, I had a very good outcome from a ewe who had 'Twin Lamb'. However, in the following year she started to produce copies milk a month before she lambed. I would milk about 750mls from her daily. She again went on to have two big, healthy lambs. However, I fed her vast amounts of food in the run-up to lambing to achieve this (not difficult, I just kept her in and gave her lots of food. She had a huge appetite). I didn't hang on to her for another year!

keep us updated about her....and very best of luck (though I don't think you'll need it)


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## Spidey (Jan 23, 2019)

thank you all again for the quick help and knowledge!

This morning she was behaving 100% normal.  I gave her apple slices, alfalfa pellets drizzled with molasses and loaded up the feeder with alfalfa.  She's bright eyed and energetic (as much as a fat pregnant sheep can be!).  A bit later I had my coffee with them and offered her crackers and more pellets.  I’ll keep visiting her and giving her treats and keeping her topped up.  They’ve learned that I show up every few hours with treats, so the entire crew hasn't left the barn in days, so rest shouldn’t be a problem for her.  Our climate is temperate rainforest and it rarely goes below freezing at night... we just have lots of rain, and mud.  We're trying to decide if we should remove the ram (perhaps permanently, as sausage)... he's been chasing the girls around a little too much and he has become badly behaved when I enter the pen.  I think with him gone, it'll create more peace within the barn.

I will look for breeding ewe nut rolls or something similar!  I bet she'd love them!

Sheepshape, thats good to know that I need to keep her topped up even after lambing.  She's never had this problem before, and I'm not sure what changed this year.  I do wonder if the morning with the foamy vomit, she choked on something, or ate something poisonous that made her feel ill, and experienced a period of fasting which set her off metabolically?  Or perhaps this is the year of the triplets?    She has always had twins.


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## Sheepshape (Jan 24, 2019)

It takes very little to cause 'Twin Lamb' disease in some animals. A day or two with them off their food for any reason and ....Wham....ketosis.
If her food requirements are high now, they will be even higher  she is producing rich (fatty) milk. I always use ewe nuts for the first 4-6 weeks after lambing for that reason (grass growth over here is pretty poor until mid-April)
I've got a couple of pregnant skinny ewes which will need watching. However, as they both eat like horses, they probably are just naturally thin.
Your ewe looks as though she is quite slim,Spidey, and may have 'dropped'. Do you know when she is due? If not, how advanced is her udder development?
Although the ram is unlikely to do any harm to anyone, if he's pestering the ewes, he would probably be better as 'the Absent Father'.
It's probably a good idea to isolate this ewe, unless you don't mind them all 'snacking'.
So, all's going well. I suspect those ewes who don't do well with 'Twin Lamb disease' are mainly those who are spotted late,or may be one  of a large flock or of several affected animals and don't get individual management, therefore slipping back into ketosis.If they can get this individual care, they can do well. The alternative is that all may die, so it's worth the time and effort 9also very rewarding when you get a healthy ewe with healthy lambs!).
Keep up the good work.


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## Spidey (Jan 24, 2019)

She's still looking 100% happy and healthy today- eating well and anxiously waiting for visits and snacks.

I don't think she's due until Feb 9th-ish (based on when I actually saw the ram breed her), but it could be as early as this weekend.  Her udder has started to fill out a little (like 2 lemons).  I'd be surprised if I saw babies this weekend... I'm thinking the 9th is more likely.

We've come up with a plan to build a ram pen alongside the barn.  He'll still see the girls and can interact with them through a cattle panel, but he'll be safely penned up if I need to assist.  This is a new barn for us so we're still trying to work out the kinks.

I agree with what you've said about many people spotting ewes with twin lamb disease late.  It could have easily happened to me- some mornings I have little time and I rush into the barn, toss hay into the feeder, and run out.  That morning I hung around and saw that she wasn't actually eating at the feeder.  Sheep are good at acting normal even if they are quite sick.


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## Sheepshape (Jan 25, 2019)

Spidey said:


> Sheep are good at acting normal even if they are quite sick.


Prey species always do....they're nearly dead before they let you know.

Great to hear she's doing well and plenty of time to make sure she's in good condition for lambing.


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## Spidey (Feb 14, 2019)

UPDATE!

Last I updated, everything seemed 100% normal with her, but I kept visiting 3x per day to offer alfalfa pellets and apple slices.  We also switched her loose minerals to a molasses mineral protein tub.  She continued looking great, with no symptoms of pregnancy toxemia at all.

She FINALLY had her twins today.  Everything went smoothly and my daughter (she's 9) and I got lucky and were in the barn when she was close to delivery so we were able to stay and watch


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## Mike CHS (Feb 14, 2019)

Congratulations and thanks for the update.  It looks like she had them really close together.


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## Baymule (Feb 14, 2019)

Congrats on the beautiful babies! Boy or girl?


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## Spidey (Feb 15, 2019)

she did have them quite close together, and very easily!  I'm glad she waited until after we shoveled a path to the barn- we had 2 feet of snow fall this week!

The little black and white one is a boy, and the solid white one (or "pink colored lamb" according to my son) is a girl.  The paternal grandfather of these 2 is a Jacob, so the boy looks more like a Jacob in his markings and mom here is a St Croix.


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## B&B Happy goats (Feb 15, 2019)

Awsome , congratulations


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## Mini Horses (Feb 15, 2019)

Love the great outcome!    Great job


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## Daxigait (Mar 8, 2019)

Spidey said:


> Hello everyone! I have a 6 /7ish year old ewe who is pregnant (always has twins). Due sometime in the next month. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Diet- weedy pasture (although the pasture is quite dormant at the moment) and local grass hay. Free choice mineral and free choice salt.
> ...



I just thought I would bump this thread a little bit especially with people getting ready to lamb and kid in bigger numbers. Ketosis can be so ugly.  people also need to watch for it after big multiple births I had to encourage lady about it who had a doe that had quads a couple weeks ago


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## hailehysen (Sep 19, 2019)

Spidey said:


> Hello everyone! I have a 6 /7ish year old ewe who is pregnant (always has twins). Nox Vidmate VLC Due sometime in the next month. Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Diet- weedy pasture (although the pasture is quite dormant at the moment) and local grass hay. Free choice mineral and free choice salt.
> ...


so she could be suffering from That usually causes a degree of "bubble blowing"which could indicate pneumonia.


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