# Getting my kits today!



## Sama_Lama (Jan 27, 2011)

I thought they wouldn't be ready until February so I wasn't going to order my supplies until tomorrow. Well I guess I'm picking up the kits this afternoon. The breeders said the kits should be fine living together until I get their new cages in the mail and put up but mentioned getting bedding. I was going to use Aspen and put them in a crate for a few days. My question is: I will be using hanging wire cages, do I need to put bedding in them? The kids are 7 weeks old and will be hanging in the chicken coop. 
Also, a stranger question is: Do they make Bunny diapers? I wanted to let the bunnies run around the yard with the chickens (When supervised only) but figured if I let boys out with girls when they were older we might have some unscheduled humping. Any ideas?


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 27, 2011)

I don't know about diapers, but the term "unscheduled humping" is hilarious.


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## cattlecait (Jan 27, 2011)

Unscheduled humping made me laugh too, lol! Congrats on meat rabbits, they're so much fun and soooo yummy!!!

No bedding needed, maybe put down a small board for them to sit on if you're worried about their feet but they should be fine. As for them running around, pretty good idea. A friend of mine grass-finished her meat pen for county fair and pretty much blew past the rest of the class. One of our pet quality rabbits was permentantly on the floor of the barn and came and left as he pleased, until he found the garden. Just be sure not to let them loose before 3 months or so because their bellies can't handle all the green grass.

You could put diapers on them (please post pictures when you do) but I don't think they make specific bunny diapers, maybe for toy dogs? Or just alternate letting the boys out and then the girls.


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## Bunnylady (Jan 27, 2011)

I wouldn't let any doeling out with a buck  past the age of 10 weeks. Considering that rabbits have been known to manage breeding through the cage wire, I fear that a diaper might not be an adequate deterrent for the more acrobatic sorts; it only takes a buck a few seconds! Also, unless you are anticipating putting these rabbits out every day, there will most likely come a time when fur will fly when you put two rabbits out together, even two does.

Properly constructed wire cages do not need bedding, although a sitting board to give the rabbits' feet some relief from the wire is a good idea. I have large ceramic tiles that I use for sitting boards; they are easily cleaned and the rabbits seem to find them cool in the summer. 

While the kits are in the crate, you will need to replace the shavings frequently. Rabbits pee a lot, and it isn't good for them to be sitting in wet shavings. You will also get some microbial breakdown of their waste happening, which produces ammonia gas. Ammonia is very rough on their respiratory systems.

Good luck with your new rabbits. Will you be posting pictures when you get them?


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## Hooligan Farm (Jan 27, 2011)

Hahaha.... I had unscheduled humping yesterday from a 10wk buck that I could sworn was a doe a week ago. lol 

Good luck with your rabbits.... They are fun


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## DianeS (Jan 27, 2011)

I had 8 baby rabbits (8 weeks old) in a large dog crate for a week, and the bedding in the crate was simply disgusting every single day. I didn't notice the first day, and by the second it was so gross and packed down that I couldn't get it out without moving all the babies out of it.

So depending on how many rabbits you're getting, you may need to be changing that litter every single day! Blech. 

And personally, I no longer believe how old a baby rabbit is unless I saw it born, personally with my own eyes. I bought a litter of rabbits that were supposed to be 8 weeks old, and butchered all but one of them for meat. The one I have left is now supposedly 12 weeks old, only she started pulling hair last night and I felt her and she is PREGNANT. Yep. So either some can breed as early as 9 weeks or I was lied to about her age. Just my cautionary tale about having "baby" males and females together and about taking someone else's word for the age of a new rabbit!

"Unscheduled humping" happens. I would just let the males and females out at different times or different days.


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## Sama_Lama (Jan 31, 2011)

Pictures of the babies:
Girls-





Boys-





Silly girl Leda-





My supplies should be here tomorrow or Wednesday but in the meanwhile they are in the house in a crate (actually my chick brooder). They are doing well and getting more friendly but one has liquid poo. Is this something to be very worried about in bunnies? If it's a chronic thing I understand that is a worry but should I be worried now? Their living situation is not ideal and they are new which I'm sure causes stress. 

And relatively unrelated I do plan to get the breed standard but I would love the opinion of anyone well versed in the Americans. I really want to breed the best specimens as possible even if most will be headed to the pot.


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## tortoise (Jan 31, 2011)

Diarrhea in rabbits is an emergency.  How old are these babies?


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## Sama_Lama (Jan 31, 2011)

7.5 weeks. I just got them a few days ago. As far as behavior and eating drinking habits go they are all normal.


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## cattlecait (Feb 1, 2011)

Ooooh, Americans! Those are such cool rabbits, I've never seen one even in a picture except for the standard. They are very cute!

The diarhea (I think I spelled that right) could be caused by the stress or if you changed their feed up on them abruptly instead of gradually doing it. If it doesn't go away the next day or they quit eating, I'd be worried, but if it clears up pretty quick then that's probably what caused it.

I'm not familiar with Americans, but they have mandolin type like Giant Chins, English Lops, and Flemish. I know with them that they should look sort of like a guitar cut in half and set on its side. I've also heard of it compared to a tube and a half-basketball, assuming the parts flow together well. Again, this is just from my experience with the above breeds.


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## terri9630 (Feb 1, 2011)

If your hanging them in the chicken coop definately have a board for them.  The chickens WILL grab at their toes.  i ended up moving my rabbits out of the chicken coop because I had one that wouldn't stop tryint to get the rabbits.  I went out one day and this stupid bird was hanging off the side of the cage like a parrot and had hold of my bucks tail.  I'd have ate her but she is one of my best layers.


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## Sama_Lama (Feb 2, 2011)

Thank you, the diarrhea did clear up after that evening. I figured that the change in enviornment, temperature, feed and routine could be the culprit but I also know that bunnies can be sick before showing any signs so I was a bit worried. The are doing fabulously and I'm just in love with one of the girls (I call her Pandi). She is such a love and so even tempered. They all spent the morning chasing around the chickens (and here I was afraid the chickens would hurt the buns!), munching on weeds and doing bunny zoomies all over the backyard. 
I have a few questions though. 2 of my females and both of my males have the same father. The breeder said this was considered line breeding with bunnies. Is that true? I know I want to breed quality bunnies and will want to show them eventually. Although most babies will end up in the pot I still want a quality animal, especially since I'm working with the Americans.
Also, I was told not to give them many treats. I give my chickens things like fruits, veggies and meal worms at least weekly, sometimes more than that. But that's not good for bunnies?


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## Hop N'Tail (Feb 2, 2011)

They don't make any pads for the rabbits. Maybe you can have a new section for the rabbits and use the hanging cages there. But watch out for sore hocks.


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## terri9630 (Feb 2, 2011)

If you give them a bunch of treats they will get fat and not breed or have breeding/delivering problems.  Too many treats isn't good for any of us.


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## DianeS (Feb 2, 2011)

Sama_Lama said:
			
		

> Also, I was told not to give them many treats. I give my chickens things like fruits, veggies and meal worms at least weekly, sometimes more than that. But that's not good for bunnies?


A "treat" is really something that the rabbits like to eat, but that contributes nothing but calories or fat to their diet. You should limit these things as much as you possibly can. 

A "nutritional suppliment" is something that rabbits like to eat, that you have carefully researched and use as part of a balanced diet. Feed this sort of thing as often as you like! A balanced rabbit diet doesn't have to be just pellets. It can be pellets plus grass hay plus seeds plus veggies - you just have to figure out the correct percentages, and keep a close eye on them to be sure it works well - keeping them at a healthy weight and in good condition and fur. 

So I avoid stand-alone treats, but cheerfully give nutritional suppliments. Does that make sense?


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## cattlecait (Feb 2, 2011)

The bunnies having the same father won't affect their kits much if at all. If you bred their kits together you might get problems, but rabbits tend to handle inbreeding very well compared to other breeds. I went to a clinic taught by a judge (I think it was Don Havlicek, but I'm not sure) and he raised Himilayans, he told us that his rabbits' family trees go straight up, no branches. This is especially true with the rare breeds, since there's not much genetic difference to work with in the first place.

I couldn't have put the treat answer any better than DianeS, so I'll leave that one


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## RabbitMage (Feb 2, 2011)

As far as inbreeding/linebreeding, I have a litter where I bred a doe to her grandsire (he is her paternal and maternal grandsire, so her parents were half siblings). Not all of the kits are shaping to be show stoppers, but I have some nice babies and none of them have two heads or anything like that.

Had to add a note, though: I don't recommend throwing rabbits together willy nilly. I've owned every rabbit on this doe's pedigree, going back three generations to about 2002. I'm _very_ familiar with the bloodlines of this litter and the potential issues that might come up.


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## Sama_Lama (Feb 2, 2011)

I do plan to get as much knowledge as possible before starting my breeding program. I really want to find a mentor but I guess I'll try and go to some bunny shows when time comes to find one. The buns are doing well and I had them out with the chickens today with no issues (except the bunnies kept scaring the chickens). They will spend the night in the coop in the one cage I built which is sitting on the ground (oh my gosh this isn't as quick as I though it would be! I didn't get the j hook pliers though. I have 6 more to make, arg!). I'm trying to figure out how I can mark them to tell them apart in the yard. If collars are out what is another good idea? I'm not really into the idea of ear tagging (they do have tattoos). I ended up getting a different feeder than I thought I was getting. The size of the whole is 4"x4", will that be too small for an adult American? It's obviously too small for the group of them but they will be separated soon so they won't have to fight for it. 
As far as the treats I was just wondering if I could feed things like cucumber pieces or a small amount of fruit. The breeders said they maybe give a carrot top like once in a blue moon. Is it just a watch the weight thing? I'm certainly not someone who keeps fat animals... well except for the chickens, they are a bit useless 

Chicken does not approve of bunnies:






Bunnies love being outside though:


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## DianeS (Feb 3, 2011)

I feed radish tops, carrots, yams, alfalfa, grass hay, sunflower seeds, bird seed, parsley, etc to my rabbits. But in teeny tiny amounts so I can really keep track of what it does to them. One rabbit gets diarrhea a day after eating alfalfa, so she doesn't get it any more. Another rabbit is so enamored with the birdseed she'll push all the pellets out of the way and out of the cage in her hurry to get to the seed, so she only gets seed when she's finished her pellets. That sort of thing. Rather like starting a baby on table food - slowly and surely and the same food repetitively until you are certain how it affects their digestion, size, fur, behavior, allergies, etc. 

The handful of seed that I might scatter for my chickens to scratch is the same size handful that I divide among my rabbits. So each rabbit gets some, but only a tiny bit. Compare the addition that you want to give them to the amount of regular food they would get that day - the addition should only be the size of a "side item" or a "dessert item" compared to their main food unless you are intentionally intending it to replace their main food. 

Cucumber and fruit can be very healthy, if you watch the proportions. I don't think either have much protein, so you might want to suppliment with some additional protein items to keep the diet balanced. But fruit (like apples) has good fiber in it, so you wouldn't have to suppliment the fiber. Make sense?


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## rabbitman (Feb 13, 2011)

Hey DianeS where did you buy your cages from??? Im looking to buy store bought ones and get rid of our hand made one. Thanks


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## cattlecait (Feb 14, 2011)

rabbitman said:
			
		

> Hey DianeS where did you buy your cages from??? Im looking to buy store bought ones and get rid of our hand made one. Thanks


Check out some rabbit shows, most have cage dealers there and the cages from them are much cheapter than at the feed store.


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## Sama_Lama (Mar 11, 2011)

Finally got my coop done.
There is a bit of crowding and It takes some maneuvering to get around but the birds have an extra perch and more floor space and the bunnies have their cage space which is enough for them. 
Yay!!


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## Mitransplant (Mar 11, 2011)

Sama_Lama    Love the coup and the rabbit. One question though.  Is having the rabbits above the chickens a good idea?  The reason I am asking is I am getting some rabbits in mid May and have been trying to figure out where to put them in the chicken house. Wont the rabbit poop be bad for the chickens to eat and possibly get in their food or water?  Not trying to knock your set up I am just asking for my own reasons of finding out about the poop and pee from the rabbits.
That is a great idea to get them off the floor and out of the way (if you can reach them, I am only 5 foot) and they are right there so when you go to take care of the chickens you can feed and water the rabbits too. I see you used the bigger water bottles to. Smart thinking. Can't make out the feeders though. I was just going to get the little water bottles but might go for the gusto and get the bigger ones. You have a great idea here. THANKS for sharing.


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## Sama_Lama (Mar 11, 2011)

I did a lot of research about having the hanging cages before venturing into bunnies since that was the only way I could have them. I found that many people will hang their bunnies over their chickens in a coop and that the bunny poo is just fine for chickens to eat. That was one of the great things, to have the chickens clean up after the bunnies (IF your chickens are helpful like that, mine are Not). I don't have my chicken feed or water under any bunny cages because I don't particularly want any issues with anyone making a "mess" in them. I did make a "urine guard" of sorts on my bunny cages. It is angled inward and (I hope!) will focus the urine away from my wall. I didn't put these on at first and the little buggers did make a grand mess of things. 
Every once in a while the chickens will get pee'd on but in general they stay out of the way and they all get yard time together and generally get along.
It works well for the limited room I have now (living in the city) but if I had the room I would like to have a bunny coop and a chicken coop. 

I live in the desert and I really wanted the big water bottles, in the summer I'm thinking I'll even need more than that and got the conversion kits for the 2 liter bottles. I personally think they are well worth the investment and bought them at Bass equipment with all my other stuff. I will be investing in a swamp cooler before we hit those horrible triple digits we are famous for.


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## terri9630 (Mar 11, 2011)

I would suggest putting a cover of some kind over the rabbit cages.  The chickens will fly up there and end up pooping all over the rabbits.  We had this problem and I  put a thin piece of plywood on top of the rabbit cages to protect them.  Chicken poo doesn't like to come out of rabbit fur.


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## Sama_Lama (Mar 12, 2011)

terri9630 said:
			
		

> I would suggest putting a cover of some kind over the rabbit cages.  The chickens will fly up there and end up pooping all over the rabbits.  We had this problem and I  put a thin piece of plywood on top of the rabbit cages to protect them.  Chicken poo doesn't like to come out of rabbit fur.


Thank you, I can imagine that poopy bunnies could be a gross mess! My cages are actually only about 6" from the ceiling and my fat birds could never fit  Every once in a while the birds stay under the bunnies long enough to get pee'd on. I still haven't figured out how to give the chicken a bath.


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## cattlecait (Mar 12, 2011)

> I still haven't figured out how to give the chicken a bath.


And here is where 4-H knowledge kicks in.

How to wash a chicken:

1) Don appropriate swimwear. This will be wet.

2) Fill a 5-gallon bucket or medium sized Rubbermaid tub with warm, soapy water.

3) Fill a second bucket or tub with warm rinsing water.

4) Select chosen victim.

5) Snatch chosen victim and, holding wings semi-tightly, slowly submerge birdie in the soapy water up to her neck.

6) Scrub.

7) Remove chicken and submerge in rinsing water. Repeat if desired.

8) Put a towel over the bird and rub like you've never rubbed before (gently, of course)

9) TADA! Clean bird!

Note that if you don't have the tubs or buckets and are only doing one or two birds, the kitchen sink should suffice. Wash bird ala' dishes-style, skipping the dishwasher part. Although, this might be a wise choice if you plan on eating the bird afterward.

KIDDING! Please don't put the chicken in the dishwasher


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## Bossroo (Mar 12, 2011)

Using the dishwasher sounds perfectly reasonable to me.    The temperature would be just fine to loosen the feathers for easy plucking.    Also, being so close to the sink for cleaning, then just a step or two and into the oven for roasting.     Then a mere half dozen steps to grace the table as the centerpiece.        It would be FRESH too with no worries of rigor mortis.      Finger licking good !


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## Sama_Lama (Mar 15, 2011)

When should I worry about aggression towards the other bunnies? Everyone has their own cage and are apart 90% of the time, however, as much as possible I let them run around the yard. The boys were starting to show interest in the girls so now they go out in 2 shifts (2 boys, then the 3 girls), but when should I start to be especially cautious about them showing aggression towards each other? The yard they run around in is large (almost 5,000 sqft) so it's not like they are in a small space together but I noticed today that the boys both hang out in the same general area. They are always supervised but I just wanted to be prepared for when I should expect it. I was assuming breeding age but not sure.


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## terri9630 (Mar 16, 2011)

Sama_Lama said:
			
		

> When should I worry about aggression towards the other bunnies? Everyone has their own cage and are apart 90% of the time, however, as much as possible I let them run around the yard. The boys were starting to show interest in the girls so now they go out in 2 shifts (2 boys, then the 3 girls), but when should I start to be especially cautious about them showing aggression towards each other? The yard they run around in is large (almost 5,000 sqft) so it's not like they are in a small space together but I noticed today that the boys both hang out in the same general area. They are always supervised but I just wanted to be prepared for when I should expect it. I was assuming breeding age but not sure.


I don't know about bucks, since I've never let them out together, but the does get very territorial and will fight and you'll have fur everywhere.  I don't let mine out together anymore and after the last fight the kids understand why.  They said cleaning up bloody fur was no fun.


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## terri9630 (Mar 16, 2011)

Bossroo said:
			
		

> Using the dishwasher sounds perfectly reasonable to me.    The temperature would be just fine to loosen the feathers for easy plucking.    Also, being so close to the sink for cleaning, then just a step or two and into the oven for roasting.     Then a mere half dozen steps to grace the table as the centerpiece.        It would be FRESH too with no worries of rigor mortis.      Finger licking good !


Just make sure you don't forget the chicken is in there!  I think my husband would fall over if he opened the dishwasher and found a chicken plopped down on the rack.  Maybe then he'd buy me a new one!


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## Tracey (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks for sharing those pics Sama Lama. They are the cutest little rabbits!


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## Sama_Lama (Mar 28, 2011)

How do you properly stack rabbits for pictures? I assume it is breed specific but I've had a hard time googling the information. I wanted to take pictures of my herd to get opinions on their quality for a show career. They are American Blues.


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## terri9630 (Mar 29, 2011)

Sama_Lama said:
			
		

> How do you properly stack rabbits for pictures? I assume it is breed specific but I've had a hard time googling the information. I wanted to take pictures of my herd to get opinions on their quality for a show career. They are American Blues.


I looked everywhere to find info on my NZW's and couldn't find it anywhere.  Look for a ARBA standards of perfection book.  It has each breed listed and tells you how to pose them.  I'd look for you but I lent my book to a 4-H friend.


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## Sama_Lama (Mar 29, 2011)

terri9630 said:
			
		

> I looked everywhere to find info on my NZW's and couldn't find it anywhere.  Look for a ARBA standards of perfection book.  It has each breed listed and tells you how to pose them.  I'd look for you but I lent my book to a 4-H friend.


I ordered my standard book the other day so I guess I'll just have to wait for it to arrive!

This is my first attempt

Leda (She is a little scardy cat!):










Pandi:









Roz:









Kale:









Titan:


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## rabbitlady4433 (Mar 29, 2011)

how do you manage to get them to sit still long enough to take pictures?  I handle my rabbits every day, though I don't show, and was trying to get pics for the rabbitry scrap book, and mine wont sit still long enough to get pics lol


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