# Lalabugs -  Kidding done



## lalabugs

A lot has been going on around here. My husband sold his mini alpine buck & wether. We sold strawberry the boer/nubian doe. 

Honey was bred by my sisters buck. My daughter did not close the gate right, he escaped. About a month left before shes due.



 Picture taken yesterday. 


We got a new doe, she's a mini mancha. She's currently in the house in a kennel. She had lice, and a snotty nose when we brought her home. She is also thin. I can not for the life of me find how much a mini mancha should weigh? She was born 9/5/16. This morning I weighed her, she is up to 14 lbs 8 oz. 




We will be selling my buck the boer/nigerian next year. He's staying until we get our new buck. We are on a waiting list for the 2017 kidding season. That way Jasper has a buddy. I still have my sisters goats, plans have changed. We will be taking them to her when my husband can take vacation around Feb/March.


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## CntryBoy777

For a month to go she is sure Wide there and I like her colors. Hope all goes well for ya and her. We have a pygmy and 2 pygmy/boer crosses so can't help ya with the little cute Mancha, but hope she turns out okay.


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## BlessedWithGoats

I wish you a safe Blessed kidding season!


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## Goat Whisperer

Love kidding threads!

Congrats on your new girl!
Is she a 50/50 cross?
Size really depends on the individual goat. 
I would have to go back in our records and see what this years mini Manchu kids weighed at that age. She does look small though. 

I'm sure you can get her back into shape


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## Goat Whisperer

@lalabugs how is Jasper doing? 
You should update his thread


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## lalabugs

Thank you! I see Honey just getting bigger. Her bag is already starting to bag up. She loves getting massages daily.  She's spoiled. 

We're down to 3 weeks! I'm anxious and nervous at the same time. We have everything ready. The girls have been getting put up into the kidding pens since the rain has not let up. Man are we getting some much needed rain here! 

Yes Marshmallow (mini mancha) is 50/50. She is doing amazing, has a belly going on now. Though it took her awhile to really get into eating her alfalfa/grain. We were told that she was fed alfalfa, but she was not that eager to eat it. She'll chase us all down for scraps all day long. She wont touch minerals either. 




Jasper is doing great! I will have to get some newer pictures of him. If it's not raining at feeding time, i'll try to get some pictures of him. They all look like mini woolly mammoths.


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## Goat Whisperer

Okay, I'm just posting some kid weights to give you an idea of what our minis are gaining. Every farm is different so this is an example of our goats and "food for thought" 
Wren, Knuckles, & Cupcake are triplets. They are F-2 generation and are a 50/50 cross. Dam is roughly 90lbs as a mature doe. She is short but DEEP. Sire is around 80 lbs if I remember correctly. He is also mature. 
These kids are from a second freshener. 
Cupcake was the smallest at birth 

5wks
Wren 16.6
Knuckles 17.6
Cupcake 13.8

6 wks
Wren 19
Knuckles 21
Cupcake 16 

10 wks
Wren 29
Knuckles 30
Cupcake 24

Just under 16 wks
Wren 40
Knuckles ~45*
Cupcake 31

*Knuckles was moved at that point so it is just a guess 

They were all sold at that point so that's all the info I have on that group. 

Next is Bingo
F-1 50/50
Born March 2016
Dam was a TINY lamancha doe. 100 lbs max at that point, she was severely infested with parasites when we got her, it took a toll and stunted her.  
Sire was a PB Dwarf buck

Bingo
Just under 5 wks - 19 lbs
Just under 10 wks 32 lbs
16 wks     40 lbs

Pretty easy to tell when the milk supply got cut off  

We kept Bingo and bred her. She is a large doe and very wide, especially her rump. She should be fine to pass kids, so we feel okay breeding her that young. She will kid shortly after her 1st birthday. 
He current weight from a few weeks ago is 83 lbs. 

Hope this helps


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## NH homesteader

Helps me too. Not that my mini alpines are exactly the same but it's so hard to find info about minis so thanks!


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## Goat Whisperer

lalabugs said:


> She was born 9/5/16. This morning I weighed her, she is up to 14 lbs 8 oz.


So she is about 18 weeks
She is small 

She must have been in bad hope when you got her 

Glad she is gaining now


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## Goat Whisperer

****I should have added that those weight are actual scale weights, not tape weight. 
We have found tape weights to be very inaccurate.


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## NH homesteader

I've never taped a goat. I only tape pigs because I can't pick them up!

What a sweet little doeling, I want to cuddle her lol! I love white goats


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## lalabugs

Looking at those weights, is saddening for marshmallow. She's tiny for her age. Do you think she will be stunted because of it? Her weight is actual scale weight. We pick them up & weigh them until we can't lift them anymore. We can't lift Honey or Willow anymore to get an actual weight on them. Livestock scale is on my birthday/anniversary list. 
 Here are a couple pics of dam & marshmallow before she came home to us. 
She looked bigger in the pictures than in person. Not sure exactly how big her dam is. We were told dam is 100% LaMancha Sire being Nigerian.


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## Goat Whisperer

She might be smaller than ours- but you have a good chance of her growing into a decent size mini. Sounds like you are doing good with getting her to eat. 

Do you have her on feed? If so, how much?
I like having free choice feed for the first several months of life. 

Her dam looks extremely small too  Skinny too. Of course I don't know that farm but it looks like a management issue at this point. 

Back to your girl…
Keep offering the minerals 
Will she take milk from a bottle? If you have goats milk that she will take that could greatly help. If she was only dam raised that probably won't happen though
Are you monitoring her fecals? 
Continue to treat her external parasites and just go from there. I discovered our kids love beet pulp, so I would leave beet pulp, alfalfa pellets, and Bartlett goat pellets out free choice. My kids were raised on this so I had no issues. Your girl would need to be transitioned very slowly. I also kept them UTD on their CDT too. I don't know your doeling's status, but if you haven't vaccinated her, I would go ahead and give it now. The breeder may have vaccinated her but in this case you don't know for certain. 

I love her name and she is stinkin adorable 

I think once you "clean her up" she will be okay 

I should also say, regarding the weight- we sold a mini kid to a friend back in spring 2015. The doe was recently here to be bred (close, tested herd with our goats and is a close friend) and was approximately 70 lbs. She is just a smaller, lighter boned doe. 

For your girl, in her condition that she is in, I would shoot for hopefully at least 50lbs gained in the next 12 months. More would be better but that might be a good "goal" to set. If she doesn't reach that, but doesn't feel skinny that's okay- just wait a little longer before breeding her. 

Keep us updated on her


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## Latestarter

Even though she's a mini, isn't it possible that genetically she got the Nigie size vice a meld or more toward the standard goat size? Could that be a contributing factor to her smaller size? Couple that with the smaller size of her dam, and might that have some bearing?


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## lalabugs

She has alfalfa hay 24/7 (only hay we can get here right now). Fresh water at all times. She gets grain twice a day, tried BOSS.  She does not eat it. Keep offering minerals. She just dumps them over. 

We were told they fed alfalfa, however the gal recently posted another animal for sale stating they don't feed hay or feed store food. Only fresh fruits & veggies. Not exactly sure. She does love scraps though. She LOVES bananas. 

I have not tried a bottle. We do not have any goats milk. Yes monitoring fecals, will be getting another one done on Friday. We will be doing CD&T on Friday. It's a calmer day of chores & kids school work. Home schooling all the kiddos takes up a good portion of time. 
As far as breeding, I was thinking minimum of a year. With her current weight. We will have to see how she is once she's a year old. 

I will keep you all updated.  

These last 3 weeks of Honeys pregnancy seem to be going by slow.


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## Goat Whisperer

@Latestarter
Pretty unlikely.

Look at the dam. Extremely skinny with what appears to be a very rough coat.

Same with the kid.

This shows that it is most likely a management issue. Had the animals looked to be in better health and condition that would be different. It doesn't look like these animals are (were) being cared for in a manner that will make them reach their full potential- size, weight, and production wise. It does not appear that this is a case where the animal is just "small". There are other factors here. Almost all F-1 50/50 mini lamanchas WILL be somewhat larger than a dwarf. Heck, our smallest full grown Dwarf doe is 60lbs.

I will have to go back but I'm pretty sure my Dwarf kids were bigger than this kid at the same age.

ETA I bet the dam isn't even a full 65 lbs…
You can get small lamanchas, but there is an obvious reason here. This isn't just a "small" lamancha. This looks like parasites and nutrition are an issue. Not trying to sound judgmental on the breeder, everyone can have a rough season…


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## Goat Whisperer

lalabugs said:


> We were told they fed alfalfa, however the gal recently posted another animal for sale stating they don't feed hay or feed store food. Only fresh fruits & veggies. Not exactly sure. She does love sc


I had a feeling is was something like this situation…

@lalabugs you can request that this conversation be moved to another thread if you'd like. I know it got a bit long


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## NH homesteader

Her dam would be small even for a mini. I have two mini alpine sisters, 10 months old. One is over 60 lbs and the other is probably 55 (I have to weigh her this week when I do her hooves). The smaller one has a more Nigie look (and size) to her, so yes F1's can get more from one side than the other... 

It sounds like she's doing really well with you, keep up the good work!

Side note: yay homeschoolers! I love finding other people who homeschool, just had to say that!


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## Goat Whisperer

@lalabugs here are a few pics of one of our mini lamanchas. This is Trouble 
She was just over a year old here. If memory serves me right, she was around 65lbs
She was raised on very little feed, most of her nutrition came from her dams milk and pasture. She was in a little bit of an awkward growth stage when this photo was taken




This is Touble back in August 2016 next to a full sized lamancha doe. Trouble is probably around 90-95 lbs not including her pregnant weight. You can really see the size difference here. The black lamancha was 142lbs before she got sick. She looks awful in these pics, she was very thin because she fighting an awful bacterial gut infection caused by the Chaffhaye she was being fed    Recovered but it was a tough fight.


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## Green Acres Farm

How much milk does Trouble give you? It looks like she has a super nice udder.


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## lalabugs

Trouble is beautiful! How much of a difference, milk wise do you get between Trouble & the full size? We will only have Honey who's nigerian in milk for awhile.
Next season we will hopefully have all 4 girls bred. If marshmallow is big enough to breed. 

We will keep weight records on Marshmallow to see how she's growing.

Kidding season can't come fast enough! The breeder we're hopefully getting a buck through. Her kidding season is suppose to start sometime this month. Keep checking for updates on her website. Nothing yet. I can't wait.

Would anyone mind looking at the breeder we're planning on going through and give us some input? 

http://www.cottonwoodcroft.com/kidding-schedule-2017.html


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## nstone630

Ok...silly question, what breed are these goats with no ears??? I find them very amusing to look at


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## lalabugs

Lamanchas . Marshmallow is lamancha/nigerian dwarf mix, mini mancha.


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## Goat Whisperer

lalabugs said:


> Trouble is beautiful! How much of a difference, milk wise do you get between Trouble & the full size? We will only have Honey who's nigerian in milk for awhile.
> Next season we will hopefully have all 4 girls bred. If marshmallow is big enough to breed.
> 
> We will keep weight records on Marshmallow to see how she's growing.
> 
> Kidding season can't come fast enough! The breeder we're hopefully getting a buck through. Her kidding season is suppose to start sometime this month. Keep checking for updates on her website. Nothing yet. I can't wait.
> 
> Would anyone mind looking at the breeder we're planning on going through and give us some input?
> 
> http://www.cottonwoodcroft.com/kidding-schedule-2017.html



_*We do not disbud. Our kids are either horned or polled. If you would like a kid disbudded. We will be more then happy to put the kid on a bottle for you to take home early and disbud at your place. We don't vaccinate our goats. They can be started on vaccinations if you want once you take them home.*_

This is a little odd to me. Almost their entire herd is disbudded or polled, but they won't disbud a kid?
Seems like you don't mind horns, so that probably isn't a big deal for you.
Not vaccinating them would be a concern as well. I know others that have lost goats to enterotoxemia that isn't something to play around with. Just make sure you vaccinate the kid right away!
Another thing- do they test for CAE, CL, or Johne's? They seem to be charging a good bit for horned, un-vaccinated, & untested goats.

*We guarantee that all goats sold are healthy as represented at the time of sale. But we can not control environmental influences and/or conditions once the animal leaves our care. So we can't offer any other guarantees. For bio-security there are no returns or exchanges all sales are final.*
This is concerning as well... Someone just posted on a lamancha group that they had just bought 3 lamanchas... All were supposed to be CAE negative. They weren't but the sellers wouldn't honor it, even though this was right after the goats were purchased IOW it wasn't a several month gap.

Are they doing parasite or cocci prevention/management/monitoring?
If they sell you a kid that is loaded with cocci and the kid drops dead 3 days later, and a necrospy shows the kid was alredy infested, what would they do? 


Genetics wise, it does look like they might be working with some decent lines. They don't however have any udder photos???? Just my .02 




nstone630 said:


> Ok...silly question, what breed are these goats with no ears??? I find them very amusing to look at


Posted on my thread to not hijack this one. Lots of pics were posted.


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## Goat Whisperer

lalabugs said:


> Trouble is beautiful! How much of a difference, milk wise do you get between Trouble & the full size?


Trouble has milked very well for us! She peaked at 7.5lbs and has been very consistent. She is the type that milks whatever you ask of her. If I were milking her 3 or 4 times a day I bet she would hit well over 8 pounds. I'm thinking she will hit 8lbs as a 3rd freshener on our normal milking schedule. 
Of course not every Mini will milk that much. She is a really good doe 

Lamancha does can vary on how much they give. Some show breeder I know can't even get a full 8 pounds because milk volume isn't the goal. The breeder or several of our goats have does that will milk over 16lbs. So it really depend on management, genetics, size, & nutrition. Goats that don't get milked until the kids are fully weaned aren't going to give as much as a doe that was milked 4x a day from the day she kidded.


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## Southern by choice

Goat Whisperer said:


> Trouble has milked very well for us! She peaked at 7.5lbs and has been very consistent. She is the type that milks whatever you ask of her. If I were milking her 3 or 4 times a day I bet she would hit 8 pounds.
> Of course not every Mini will milk that much. She is a really good doe
> 
> Lamancha does can vary on how much they give. Some show breeder I know can't even get a full 8 pounds because milk volume isn't the goal. The breeder or several of our goats have does that will milk over 16lbs. So it really depend on management, genetics, size, & nutrition. Goats that don't get milked until the kids are fully weaned aren't going to give as much as a doe that was milked 4x a day from the day she kidded.



 I don't understand what you are saying unless it was a typo-
Trouble milked 5.5-6 lbs as a *FF* with a single
*2nd F * - 7.5 was not really a peak- she stayed there ... weird we couldn't get that little extra for 8 lbs... 
I DO think if trouble was milked 3-4 x day she would hit over 10lbs a day


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## Goat Whisperer

Yes, but so far her maximum output has been 7.5 pounds, that is why I called it peak. A goat can be at peak production for months…


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## lalabugs

I have been in contact with the breeder. I got udder pictures from two of her does. We wanted to stay local as much as possible. The other breeder here is not breeding this kidding. She just moved to a new property with more land that she's getting set up for her goats. (That breeder is Honey's breeder.) We wanted to get a buck that is not related to honey. 




 Eclipse

 Nova

Have not asked for other does udders. I emailed asking about the testing/cocci prevention. Waiting to hear back. Also hard to decide on what we need to improve honey's udders until she kids. How often do you milk? I don't see us milking 3-4 times a day. The plan so far is am/pm milking.


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## Southern by choice

This is a good chart to work with-


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## Goat Whisperer

I milk 2x a day, sometimes during the really busy season they get skipped and do a 24 hour fill.


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## Goat Whisperer

Southern by choice said:


> This is a good chart to work with-
> View attachment 26403


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## Southern by choice

I agree with @Goat Whisperer  - if not testing for anything, no cdt, and no info regarding what constitutes "healthy" I would be asking lots of questions.
They all may be perfectly healthy and fine just not much to go on. 

I am always concerned about lack of CDT's. This year GW and I saw more than we wanted to with kids dying from farms that did not vacinate for CDT. Sad senseless deaths.


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## lalabugs

What is the absolute latest that you can vaccinate a pregnant doe with cd&t? Went to my local feedstore to get a bottle, they were out. Wont have any until next shipment. A week from today. 145 days will be Jan 31st for honey. Would giving her the CD&T vaccine next friday be to late?


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## Goat Whisperer

Do you have another feedstore you could try?


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## lalabugs

There is one other feedstore, but they don't carry shots. They have a very limited supply of other feeds as well. The next feed store is 1 1/2 hours away.


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## lalabugs

Breeder wrote me back. Her whole herd was tested August 2016 coming back negative.


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## Southern by choice

lalabugs said:


> Breeder wrote me back. Her whole herd was tested August 2016 coming back negative.


That is great. Ask for documentation. IOW YOU WANT TO SEE IT! What was tested for?
No breeder that tests is offended by this. Many will forward results gladly.

One time I was looking at a buck and asked for results- it was out of state and I wanted to know BEFORE I drove. 
The person said they didn't have the results their vet did.
1. breeder should always have a copy regardless this does two things- ONE they know exactly what was tested for and TWO you as the breeder can confirm... mistakes can happen!
2. wait til they can produce a copy

I waited several days, the person did forward me testing results.... only problem was the vet wasn't a goat vet and did not test the goat for ANYTHING goat related. They were all bovine tests! 
Goat didn't have any bovine diseases 

Another farm THOUGHT their vet was testing for CAE... they never got results just a phone call saying they were negative. Lack of communication on both parties really. BUT if they were getting a paper copy then all could have been avoided. They ended up finding out they were CAE positive! This has happened to quite a few. The vets weren't bad vets, the breeders were good breeders... it just happened and if both parties had reviewed results than mistakes are easier to catch.


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## lalabugs

Cl, cae & johns. I wrote her back asking to see the results.


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## Goat Whisperer

lalabugs said:


> Cl, cae & johns. I wrote her back asking to see the results.


That is awesome!!!


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## lalabugs

While I was out cleaning goat pens, I noticed honey was shaking her head a lot. Along with scratching her right ear a lot. I looked inside her ear. I do not see anything. Does not look inflamed. She was in hog heaven as I rubbed her ear. Not sure what it could be? This just started today.


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## lalabugs

Honey got treated for ear mites. Seems to have done the trick. No more scratching or shaking her head. 

The breeder is searching for her papers. She said when she finds them she will send them. (the breeders kidding season has started, her first doe had two bucklings). Seeing the kids has given us all here kid fever! We can't wait. 

We are getting down to the last two weeks (well 145 day mark). It seems to be going by slowly!! 

Anyone want to guess how many honey is going to have?


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## Southern by choice

3 -2 does 1 buck


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## lalabugs

I hope at least twins.  We are all beyond ready for babies. My youngest is beyond ready.


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## nstone630

Trips! all does!! hopefully


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## Goat Whisperer

Buck/doe twins


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## lalabugs

Does the last couple weeks always seem to go by so slowly? These days seem to go by slower and slower. Her udder is slowly getting bigger. We all can not wait to see what she has. 

We're all avoiding outside as much as possible. We got snow, lots of snow. WE DO NOT GET SNOW HERE. People here do not know how to drive in the snow..... it's safer to just stay home. 

I moved back to central California to get away from Washington winters.

My husband woke up.... looked outside and said "do you think we should bring the girls inside?"  He's not use to snow either.


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## Southern by choice

Your DH is a smart guy... heck I'd run with that!


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## lalabugs

Hahaha. He did end up bringing them in for a little to get out of the cold. Regardless that they're in the kidding pens, that are completely out of the elements. Good thing we have no carpet in the house. 
Honey is beyond spoiled. She walks up to my husband smells his hand until he gives her massages. When he stops she looks at him like why did you stop? Then back to smelling his hand, until she gets more. lol She's got him trained good!


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## TAH

The back pulls you see in the last pic are 3 1/2 feet tall!


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## Southern by choice

@TAH  that is beautiful!


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## TAH

Southern by choice said:


> @TAH  that is beautiful!



It really is! 

My tablet stinks at taking pics but I will get my nice phone out and get good pics for you'll!


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## lalabugs

Love the pictures. That's A LOT of snow! Snow is beautiful to look at. I just personally do not enjoy living in it. How are you liking it?


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## TAH

lalabugs said:


> Love the pictures. That's A LOT of snow! Snow is beautiful to look at. I just personally do not enjoy living in it. How are you liking it?


I am really exited about the deep snow becuase I am not a snowball fight person I like to push people around, now in this snow We can has a real fight in snow. 

I was out for an hour yesterday and really liked it! 

SNOW!


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## lalabugs

lol it certainly does make for fun snow fights. Enjoy the snow for me.


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## lalabugs

3 days until 145 day mark. We have turned a tablet into a security camera. I can watch Honey with out having to check her a million times. Have not noticed any discharge, ligaments are still firm. Udder has gotten bigger but not full by any means. 
Honey is beyond uncomfortable, she can't just sleep anymore. She's constantly adjusting herself.


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## lalabugs

When will a doe go off feed? She's not due until tuesday, today she will not touch her grain. She usually devours her grain. Other wise she's acting completely normal.


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## lalabugs

Honey is only slightly eating. She's beyond uncomfortable. Is it normal for the doe to almost stop eating? She's still eating, just trivial amounts. 
Babies have dropped today. No discharge or full udder yet.


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## Latestarter

I'll bet you're really close   well, not YOU, but Honey... Anyway, have you checked her ligs?


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## Goat Whisperer

Some goats get picky or stop eating altogether soon before kidding.
No one told our goats about that though, they all stuff their faces.
We have some does that eat the whole time they are in labor.

Every goat is different. Sounds like your girl is getting close


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## lalabugs

Just came in from checking ligs, they are soft. Left side I can feel easier than right side. No difference in tail head yet. 

She has already picked her "spot". She's been pawing. Getting up/down a lot, stretching.

I can not wait. She has everyone here on pins and needles. 

The breeder we are going to get a buck from, has started her kidding season. So far 13 bucks, 6 does. Seeing kid pictures has added to our kid fever.


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## Goat Whisperer

lalabugs said:


> So far 13 bucks, 6 does.


Good thing you are getting a BUCK from them 

I'm excited for you too! We have a few more weeks until kidding, but I just love watching these kidding threads! 

Sounds like your girl is going to kid today or tomorrow!


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## lalabugs

Seriously. She's only posted one of the does for sale too. The other ones are being retained. 

I love reading the kidding threads too. I've been reading everyone else's kidding threads as well. Love seeing all the progress & kid pictures.


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## lalabugs

Tomorrow is day 145. It seems like we have waited forever. Still to wait longer. Udder is not full. Ligaments are not gone. She's back to eating today. Every morning my youngest daughter ask if it's time yet.


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## lalabugs

We're anxiously waiting. Udder not all the way full. She did start having discharge this morning.


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## lalabugs

Honey is enjoying herself, messing with us. No more signs that she's anywhere close. Tomorrow I have to go to the City. No one will be home. What is the likely hood that she kids while i'm gone? 
Udder not full, no mucous plug & ligs are now firm. Day 146 today.


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## lalabugs

We have babies!!!! Honey had triplets, and something not sure what it was. The doe was born dead after the thing passed. 
First pic is of the thing that she passed. It is covered in fur. 
Buck with white tail is 3 lb 2oz other buck 2lbs 7oz.


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## Latestarter

Sorry you lost the doe, but congrats on the 2 healthy bucklings.


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## BlessedWithGoats

Congrats!! Sorry about the doeling


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## samssimonsays

Congrats on the healthy kids, so sorry about the loss but that "thing" looks like it was the beginnings of a baby and it just never developed correctly.... like a parasitic other? I have heard of humans having parasitic masses that attach to the babies umbilical chord and is "baby like" but not viable? Maybe that was the issue with your doeling? I don't know... maybe have a vet look at it to know further what it is? I am very intrigued!


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## NH homesteader

yeah I was wondering if it was a partially developed fetus... But I don't think it would be that furry. Your idea makes sense. 

Sorry about the doeling, but congrats on the healthy bucklings!


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## lalabugs

Thank you everyone. 
It's possible, I would assume. My husband already buried the doe and whatever the other was.
The bucks are doing great. They're eating, jumping around. Absolutely adorable. Honey is doing an amazing job. My husband brought them all inside last night. The small buck was shaking even with being dried off & a heat lamp. My husband has a big soft spot for the little buck. My husband named them both. I will get some pics of them by themselves here shortly.


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## lalabugs

Haven't gotten one with them separate yet. Got lots of them cuddling.


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## babsbag

Really cute kids. Sorry about the lost one, sometimes weird things just happen. 

Where in Central CA do you live that you are getting snow? You must be in the Sierra foothills somewhere.  I live up by Redding and thankfully out of the snow zone.


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## lalabugs

Thank you. I know weird things can happen. We're just thankful the two bucklings are healthy and doing amazing. They're on Honey but we're spending a lot of time out with them. They're back out in the kidding pen. My husband named the small one gremlin, my daughter named the bigger one grizzle. 

When do you all introduce Momma & babies back to the herd? My husbands doe Willow is freaking out that her buddy is not out with them. We have had to keep her locked up next to Honey & babies so she's not freaking out. 

I live in Lake Isabella. We usually only get snow on the mountains around us. Not actually down to the lake. The whole Valley was white.


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## lalabugs

It's been awhile. The boys are now 8 weeks old. How time flies! It's been such an amazing time going through the birthing process & them growing up. We have the boys sold already. The will leave once they are 12 weeks. 

We got our buckling from the breeder. He's a bottle baby. Hubby also fell in love with a doeling. Will have to get updated pictures of them. Doe has been named Rose, buck has been named Scooby. Here are pictures from breeder. 

Rose                                                                  Scooby


 




How long after a doe kids, do you normally rebreed? We are thinking around september. Not sure if that is a normal enough time for her to recoup from having kids.


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## lalabugs

The boys are almost 3 months old. How time flies when playing with kids.   They leave the end of the week to go home. They are staying together, both wethered. 

How soon do you all rebreed your Nigerian does? We want to give honey time off before rebreeding her. We are not milking her. She is a NIGHTMARE to milk! I tried every trick to be able to milk her. She was not having it. 

I did search the forums, where I seen someone said 2-3 months off. Then breed?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

It's pretty rare that we re breed a doe, I think one time we did at 3 months. Seeing how she had trips and than that other "thing" I'd give her a few more months and make sure she is well conditioned, parasites taken care of, etc.


----------



## lalabugs

We do not want to breed her right away. Since she was heck to milk. We were talking about breeding her again or selling her. We are only wanting to keep goats we can milk. My husband really wants to get a baby to keep from her. Possibly July breeding? I can get pictures of her to show you her condition now. We will be running fecals on everyone Wed. 

We have also been looking into a full size goat. We're not sure though. We do have a local gal who breeds La Manchas & La Mancha crosses. The La Manchas are not due until May & June. 

The two crosses that we're looking into are a Togg/La Mancha. Or a 25% Togg 25% La Mancha 50% Nubian. All goats are tested CAE, CL & Johns. With herd being negative. Also all does are put on milk test. 

I did read that the Togg have really horrible milk? I did talk to the breeder about it. She said the togg does have milk that she personally does not like. Which is why she's always crosses her with a La Mancha buck. Said her off springs milk is not horrible. 
Any thoughts of breed and milk flavor?  

We're looking for milk production. We are a large family, who needs a good amount of milk a day.


----------



## Latestarter

lalabugs said:


> She said the togg does have milk that she personally does not like. Which is why she's always crosses her with a La Mancha buck. Said her off springs milk is not horrible.



Just me, but IMHO someone who says "it's not horrible" would scare me away! Unless they say "It's outstanding" or to that affect, why risk it?  Better yet, ask for a sample taste and decide for yourself!


----------



## lalabugs

She did offer us to taste the milks before deciding. The other does have not kidded yet. We're waiting for them to kid, then we will set up a date that we can go out to see the goats & taste the milk to decide for ourselves. 

Just wondering if other people have noticed a difference in the milk with the different breeds?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Lamanchas are the best… period 
Ok I'm a little biased though. 

You never know what is going to be passed down. One kid could have great milk while the other while another could have terrible milk. 

Truthfully I think you should go for a visit and see what you like. We had a lady contact us about wanting to get back into goats (vet referred us). She had alpines years ago and they were awful. Almost completely turned her away from goats. She originally wanted nigies, but wasn't settled on anything yet. After visiting she fell head over heals for the lamanchas and minis.
She got 2 mini manchas, a Nigerian, and is on a waiting list for a lamancha- a big difference than what she originally thought! 
She is so happy and in love. Sometimes you just need to see what clicks with you


----------



## lalabugs

We do plan on going out to see the goats, just waiting for the other does to kid first. We do have a Lamancha right now. We got her because the owner was starving her & wanted her gone. I'll post her story & pictures in Jasper & Marshmallows post. 

The plan before we got Moon, the lamancha. Was to get a Nubian or Nubian cross. My husband has a sweet spot for his mini nubian. Since getting moon, his mind has now been changed to get a lamancha or lamancha cross.


----------



## Fullhousefarm

lalabugs said:


> We do plan on going out to see the goats, just waiting for the other does to kid first. We do have a Lamancha right now. We got her because the owner was starving her & wanted her gone. I'll post her story & pictures in Jasper & Marshmallows post.
> 
> The plan before we got Moon, the lamancha. Was to get a Nubian or Nubian cross. My husband has a sweet spot for his mini nubian. Since getting moon, his mind has now been changed to get a lamancha or lamancha cross.




We usually breed ours to kid about once a year. I've done 10 months apart to adjust to fit my kidding schedule as long as the doe is in good condition. We also milk at least until we re-breed, but usually the full 300 days on the majority of the herd. This year we are on milk test so I'm keeping everyone in milk to the 305 days except two- one who has her star already and another who isn't going to get it anyway and who I don't like hand milking (Nigerian.)

We love out Lamanchas and Nigerians. If it was in it just for milk I'd certainly go for Lamanchas. I have milk coming out my ears right now... And they are (generally) much easier to hand milk. I have 5 Lamanchas in milk this year (one is a 75% Lamancha 25% Saanen grade) and they are all so nice to milk Even with "oopsie" young doe who freshened at 11 months. She's actually one of my favorites to milk.


----------



## lalabugs

Went out to see the goats yesterday. Got to taste the milk as well. Both of us did not like the togg & togg/lamancha cross flavor.
Went looking at does, ended up putting a deposit on a lamancha buck.

With this being our first full size buck, what age is usually a correct breeding age? We're currently looking into fencing options for a standard buck. The breeder has a nice 2x4 fencing set up for her bucks. She said it has stood up to her bucks with out issue. We have thoughts on what we want to do. Want to make sure that what we put up, will stand up to a full size buck. Any ideas on a pen for standard buck? Pictures of pens? 

One other thing, will a nigerian wether be an okay companion? Or should we look into getting a standard wether?


----------



## lalabugs

Here he is. Now to figure out a name. 

Dam is grade Lamancha, dad PB lamancha.


----------



## nstone630

Oh he is very handsome!!


----------



## babsbag

He is a good looker for sure. Those ears lead me to believe that there is some other breed hiding in the wood pile but that doesn't make him a bad goat, don't misunderstand that. Did they say what the dam is crossed with to make her a grade? 

A nigi wether will be an ok companion for him. I have standard and Nigi bucks living together. My buck pen is 2x4 no climb fencing on one side and stock panel on the other. But I run a row of hotwire at goat knee height so there is no fancy footwork going on during rut. I run it on the doe side and the buck side of the fence line.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

If they are going to share a fence line, I'd run a strand of electric. 

Surprisingly our standard bucks haven't been to bad on fencing, but a determined buck can step over it.

My previous lamancha back always respected our 4ft cattle fence. Until one day he literally stepped over it. It took no effort at all (he was ~40 inches at the withers). It scared the daylights out of be because he was CRAZY and would try to kill people (long story- I didn't raise him). 
Hotwire stayed on after that.  

A Nigerian wether may or may not work out. If you raise them up together it might be okay, just watch him once he starts to mature. 

As far as breeding age, it depends on the buck and genetics. I had a lamancha buck that covered several does at 5 months and a Nubian that wasn't mature enough to breed at 8 months (dispite being huge in size!)


----------



## lalabugs

The breeder said that the dams dam looked like a lamancha, but upon registering said something about her conformation not conforming to lamancha standards? The dam of the buck is small. I'll have to get pictures of her when we go back out. I'd say she's slightly smaller than Willow (our mini nubian). 

The dam had triplets as a FF, he's the only one with those ears. He's also the only one who she did not wether. His dam just got done doing milk test. She produced 11lbs at milk test. 

Hot wire is something we were talking about. Along with hog panels or no climb horse fencing. 

The wether is already grown, but small. We will have to see how they do. If need be the breeder does have several wethers available.


----------



## babsbag

That small doe must be all udder if she can produce 11 lbs as a FF, that is really good.  

It is interesting that she would keep a buckling from a grade doe since that makes the buckling ineligible for ADGA registration.


----------



## lalabugs

The 11 lbs was a hook line sinker for my husband. Honey is starting to settle down to milk. Honey is giving us 5 cups a day. Only being milked once a day. 
The breeder did tell us he can not be registered. 

We did not get to see his sire, as the breeder just got a new lamancha buck. Replacing the one she had. 

The new lamancha buck has a precocious udder. Is precocious udder a desirable trait?


----------



## Fullhousefarm

lalabugs said:


> The 11 lbs was a hook line sinker for my husband. Honey is starting to settle down to milk. Honey is giving us 5 cups a day. Only being milked once a day.
> The breeder did tell us he can not be registered.
> 
> We did not get to see his sire, as the breeder just got a new lamancha buck. Replacing the one she had.
> 
> The new lamancha buck has a precocious udder. Is precocious udder a desirable trait?



As long as the breeder was up front that he can't be registered as an American Lamancha you're all good. We had a 87.5 % Lamancha buckling born with elf ears here this year. He would have been great for someone with an unregistered herd for sure. His twin sister is American Lamancha and has gopher ears.

A precocious udder in a buck can indicate strong milking genetics. I'm not sure I'd want to worry about the complications that can happen, though I don't know how rare they are.

Is Honey and first freshener? For being milked once a day 5 cups isn't bad for a first freshener. Feed, hay, genetics, and even how many she kidded this year can be influencing that.


----------



## lalabugs

Honey is a 4th freshener Nigerian Dwarf. She was not milked prior to us purchasing her. She was bred, then dried off after the kids were weaned. I weighed her milk out yesterday, it was 2lbs 13oz. 

We only have registered Nigerian Dwarfs. Couple non registered. We are only purchasing to have milk for the family. Besides the Nigerians. We are still looking for a standard doe.


----------



## lalabugs

Took some pictures of the does today. Trying to plan fall breedings, though not sure how we're going to do it. I would like to breed so that we have milk year round. 


Rose- 4 1/2 month old Nigerian.






Marshmallow- 9 month old Mini Mancha. We weighed her this morning. She is 65 lbs!  


 

Willow- 1 y/o FF Mini Nubian. She's been giving us 5lbs a day.


 


Moonpie 3 y/o Lamancha. She came back negative and not pregnant. 


 

We would like to breed Rose, Honey, Marshmallow & Willow to Scooby. 

My husband really wants to breed Moopie to Kuno. Only 1/2 her udder works though. .... 

Scooby is Nigerian, Kuno is Grade Lamancha. 
Pics of bucks. Not great pics. Went to take pics, and seen they busted the back wall of the shelter. Snapped a couple pics before fixing it.


----------



## TAH

OMG YOU KUNO LOOKS ALMOST JUST LIKE MY NOAMI!!!!


----------



## lalabugs

Would love to see a pic of Noami.


----------



## TAH




----------



## Goat Whisperer

Everyone looks great! Marshmallow has really come a long way


----------



## lalabugs

They are almost twins @TAH 

@Goat Whisperer I was worried that she would not make it to 65 lbs. Do you think she'll be big enough when shes a year old to breed? She turns a year in September.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

65# is about when all our minis get bred. As long as she has good width I think she is good to go


----------



## lalabugs

Curious what everyone feeds milking does? 
All our goats have alfalfa, water and mineral 24/7.  
We're currently feeding a goat milking ration, it has molasses in it. Willow is now getting the burnt copper color to her coat.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Do you give a copper bolus or any other copper supplement other than the goat minerals?

Even though we have minerals out (manna pro or sweetlix) we still need to give extra copper. We also have extremely high iron so that makes it interesting 

If you are in CA I imagine you will need to give extra copper as well. You might want to talk other goat folks in your region and see if they give extra copper, selenium, etc. 

I believe @babsbag has said she needs to give all her goats Multi-Min injections.


----------



## lalabugs

Yes. I just gave her a bolus a week ago. I am in CA. I will contact the breeder we got Kuno from and see if she does anything extra. 

@babsbag do you do anything extra?


----------



## lalabugs

Curious if anyone is in the GVC group on facebook? 

There was a post about a lamancha buck who has a limp noodle rather than what it should be. I'm curious what could cause this?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Hard to know without more info and seeing the goat. 

I don't go on FB health groups. 
They would drive me crazy LOL


----------



## lalabugs

We recently got a new Nigerian doe. She is 7 months old. From the pictures she looked a lot larger, than what she really is.
She is currently in a quarantine pen away from the other goats. We're doing everything, fecals, blood test, worming if needed.
The thing is she's so small! She's not that skinny, little hippy. Nothing compared to Marshmallow or Jasper. However she's 7 months old and 26lbs. She has unlimited hay & water. Slowly starting her on grain. My question is, if we let her grow until she's 2. Do you think she will catch up to where she should be since she's already so far behind?




We named her Sugar N Spice. Spice is sticking more.

Updated pictures on the other does.


 Marshmallow is now over a year old.



  Rose is 7 months old.



  Willow is 1 1/2 now. Our biggest goat, even as a mini.



 Honey.


----------



## Hens and Roos

cute pictures, for your new doe- are you able to measure her at her shoulders to see where she is currently at height wise? 

How many kids in the birth? 

It's hard to say what will happen as she gets older.  We had a doe have 6 kids-both doelings were tiny and they are now 2 years old and still small and wont be bred.


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## lalabugs

She's 16 3/4". She is a triplet.


----------



## Hens and Roos

not sure, you might just have to give her time and see what happens


----------



## lalabugs

I will be giving her plenty of time to grow. 

What causes goats teeth to be black? While giving her copper, I noticed that her molars are black. Her Incisors are kind of black.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Once you get her cleaned up (dewormed, treated for cocci, etc.) I think she'll mature as all your other goats. Have the vet listen to her heart too. 

No clue on the teeth! Let me know what you find. That is very interesting.


----------



## lalabugs

We have bred Honey, Willow & Marshmallow.

We're excited to see 2018 kids already! My children are so excited, they all have already made guesses on how many and of what sex the does will have. 

Spice is being treated for Cocci & mites.


----------



## lalabugs

We're picking up a bred F5 Mini Mancha today. Babies will be F6 Mini Manchas. I'm really excited to get her. She is due in December.
Moon went to a home that will let her live her life out on pasture. Kuno went to a new home. Decided to stick with Nigerians and Minis. 
Will post pictures of her once we get her here.


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## Hens and Roos

congrats, how exciting!!


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## lalabugs

Pumpkin the Mini Mancha. She's 1 1/2 and pregnant. Has already started making a bag. No due date, she was pen bred. Any guesses?


----------



## lalabugs

Pumpkin has dropped. Her udder is filling up, it's a noticeable difference every day. Looking back over honeys notes, i never mentioned when she dropped. I can not remember. 
We're excited to see what her babies will look like.


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## lalabugs

Udder this morning. Maybe November kids?


----------



## Hens and Roos

I'm no good at guessing


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## Latestarter

That's definitely an udder, but looking at her sides, she is hiding any kid(s) really well! No bulge apparent at all!


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## lalabugs

She is skinny, on top of being pregnant. She dropped also. Making her look even skinnier. She has at least one. I felt it moving around today.


 Just took this picture.


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## Latestarter

that you're right!


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## lalabugs

Only time will tell.  
The breeder said she'd guess that she has about 2 months left. However she could not be sure due to the buck escaping.


----------



## lalabugs

Has anyone had a doe become HUGE at 60 days pregnant? Willow & Marshmallow are huge! I did a stomach measurement on both today. Willow is 46 1/2". Marshmallow is 40 1/4". 

Willow is already doing the grunting and complaining as well. She's huge! I will try to get pictures of both of them tonight. 

Willow is a mini nubian and marshmallow is a mini mancha.


----------



## Southern by choice

Yes, and it can be scary. Often it means MANY kids. 
You will really need to watch their intake... and carefully monitor them in the last month. They will be at much higher risk for pregnancy toxemia.
If you could get an ultrasound reasonably priced I would- knowing how many can help you manage the pregnancy better.


----------



## lalabugs

Willow day 58.




 

 Marshmallow day 60. 

Best pics I could get. Just put them up for the night. 

I can pick up ketone strips tomorrow. How often should I test them? 

Any advise on feeding them? Right now they have alfalfa 24/7. Goat mineral 24/7. 

No vets out here do anything for goats.  I have called every large & small animal vets.


----------



## Southern by choice

I wouldn't worry about that now- it will be later down the road. You will need to have some things on had for the just in case.
I will ask @Goat Whisperer  to give you a list. None are real expensive but you want to have them on hand.
You take such good care of your animals and the fact that they are the way they are it is as if they were flushed... which increases fertility.
Hopefully the growth will slow a bit. This happens to Leah- she gets a baby belly quick then slows down a bit then it goes boom again... she is an overachiever! Quads, Quints, Quads.... we told her twins this time would be wonderful. 

Being minis they have a much higher probability of trips and quads.


----------



## lalabugs

Would love a list of things I need. Can get things today, going to the city.

Thank you. My daughters informed me they have been giving the girl goats BOSS & Beet pulp. They have been giving all the girls treats, after being let out in the am. The girl goats love them for it. lol. 

Do you feed differently with Leah having quads and quints?


----------



## Southern by choice

You really should cut out the BOSS and the beet pulp- both are used for gaining weight- they were looking "flushed" before- now they are big and pregnant.

It is very dangerous to have a goat too heavy. Far more kidding complications, risk of abortion, and risk of toxemia.
Goats can even die of suffocation if too heavy and have multiples.

Feed a normal ration. No treats. Slight increase spread out over the day for the last month.

No we feed Leah the same. Leah is usually in lactation when she is bred for the next season so we try to dry her off 2 months before kidding- she is hard to dry off. She is on once a day milking and will not dry off. She is a milker!  So she does have feed on the stand but less now because we are trying to dry her off. She is on grass hay. She just gets a handful of feed. When she gets real big she gets stalled by herself because she is huge and it is hard for her to move out of the way of the big goats.
She is a dwarf so really doesn't get much feed. She is not typical of a dwarf as far as how she eats-  she eats SUPER SLOW! Oh my goodness does she eat slow. We try to give her the alfalfa hay more toward the last 3 weeks of pregnancy. 

Every goat is different.


----------



## lalabugs

The boss and beet pulp has been stopped since my daughters told me. The only ones who were suppose to be getting it is Pumpkin & Spice. They're thin, they need the calories. The feed shed has been locked down, only my husband and I can get into it now. 

They are now only getting alfalfa and goat mineral. I can start them on goat grain the last month of pregnancy. I knew they looked fat. The only hay we get out here is alfalfa. I was stumped as to how they were gaining, when I thought they were only getting alfalfa, or so I thought. 

Not really sure how to get the weight off of them. Besides only giving them hay & mineral. I do not want to cause issues due to them being fat.


----------



## Latestarter

Get them each a set of goatie jogging treads, and accompany them on some neighborhood jaunts.


----------



## lalabugs

We have been taking the does out for walks every day to add extra exercise. Thank you for the idea. 

Updated pictures on Pumpkin. She is slowly getting a small belly. She's still thin. We're keeping a close eye on her.


----------



## Sweetened




----------



## lalabugs

The walks twice a day with the goats is helping. Willows heart girth has gotten smaller. Lost 1 1/4" off her heart girth. You can see the difference. We're keeping the walks going daily, at least until it starts raining. Not sure what we'll do then. No more grain though until the end of her pregnancy. 

Pumpkin is slowly gaining weight. Udder has not gotten any larger. How soon can a goat start to make an udder? She's a FF. Tomorrow will be 4 weeks since I brought her home. No signs of heat.


----------



## Latestarter

From my understanding, they may start developing an udder 4-6 weeks in advance, (some can be precocious and udder up months in advance) just before kidding, or right after kidding...


----------



## lalabugs

I've been googling and reading a lot. Read that they can start as early as 12 weeks from kidding? Calculating from the date I brought her home. That would put her around Jan 6th. Though she already had the udder when i picked her up.

Gives me time to put weight on her before she kids. Been stressing that she will not be able to produce enough milk if she kids at her current weight.

Any reason to be concerned with a little dried blood/mucous on her? I checked her pen, nothing. Watched her pee, it's clear.


----------



## Goatgirl47

I have four FF does who were bred August 19-20. Two of them started developing an udder about 3 weeks ago, while the other ones haven't at all. It can greatly vary depending on the doe.  
I'm guessing that Pumpkin will kid around the end of December, but it is hard to tell. 
Good luck!


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you. We are keeping an eye on her. So far no changes.


----------



## lalabugs

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Been cooking all day everyday since Monday. Only a few things that I have to cook today.
We do not go anywhere. We stay home. As my boys say "we get fat on holidays". 


Took pics this morning. The walks are helping. They are not as round as they were.



Willow due 1/20/18




Marshmallow due 1/18/18



  Honey due 1/27/18


----------



## lalabugs

I usually do not post about my family, or health issues. My family has been through the wringer when it comes to health issues.

The news that I got today is bad. I'm afraid I will not be able to see my uncle before he passes.

My uncle is a cancer survivor. He's been treated three times. Twice it was successful. The last time it was not. It's in all his lymph nodes. I got the call this morning that he's in ICU. He has pneumonia, hallucinations, his heart is giving out and they have him on dialyses.
To top it off my aunt is in the ER. We have not been able to get a hold of anyone to find out what is going on. My aunt is my dads sister. My uncle in ICU is my aunt who's in the ER husband.

Can I please get prayers for my Aunt Rose & Uncle Bill?


----------



## TAH

lalabugs said:


> I usually do not post about my family, or health issues. My family has been through the wringer when it comes to health issues.
> 
> The news that I got today is bad. I'm afraid I will not be able to see my uncle before he passes.
> 
> My uncle is a cancer survivor. He's been treated three times. Twice it was successful. The last time it was not. It's in all his lymph nodes. I got the call this morning that he's in ICU. He has pneumonia, hallucinations, his heart is giving out and they have him on dialyses.
> To top it off my aunt is in the ER. We have not been able to get a hold of anyone to find out what is going on. My aunt is my dads sister. My uncle in ICU is my aunt who's in the ER husband.
> 
> Can I please get prayers for my Aunt Rose & Uncle Bill?


Praying for Rose and Bill!


----------



## Hens and Roos

prayers for your Aunt and Uncle as well as your family


----------



## Southern by choice

Absolutely!

Receive His peace and comfort Lalabugs.


----------



## Mike CHS

From us also.


----------



## Latestarter

So sorry to hear of the bad situation Lala... I hope that it comes to it's designed finish sooner than later to ease pain and suffering for all involved.


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you all for the prayers. My Aunt was release from the hospital yesterday. Thankfully. 

My Uncle on the other hand, will not make it. Hospice was brought in this morning.   His kidneys are shutting down. The medicine they gave him to get his kidneys working, is the cause of the hallucinations. His heart as of yesterday was only at 15%. 
We're all devastated. 

I know wanting more time is selfish. Uncle Bill has been through so much already, he's in so much pain. It does not make it any easier. 

Trying to figure out a way to make it down to see and help my Aunt.


----------



## Goatgirl47

I'm so, so sorry.  I also will be praying for you and yours.


----------



## promiseacres

Prayers.


----------



## Sweetened

My sincere condolences


----------



## RoahT

Praying all goes well with the kidding and that Marshmallow continues to improve!


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you everyone. My Aunt told us that he's resting comfortably at hospice. He was moved yesterday. She said that it has been a really long time since he's been able to rest comfortably and she's thankful for it. 

Right now she's not wanting anyone to come down. She's asked us to wait. Really hard time for our family. It just seems to soon, to fast. Even though he's been going through chemo for awhile. It just feels so fast. I have not been able to visit with Aunt Rose & Uncle Bill much over the past few years. With my children and animals & living far away. It just has not been in the cards. I wish we all had more time with Uncle Bill.


----------



## Sara Ranch

*hugs*


----------



## Latestarter

It never comes at a good time, and always happens too soon... Just the way it seems to work.


----------



## lalabugs

Yesterday Uncle Bill passed away. With his wife and daughters in the room. Yesterday was a really hard day. I knew the second my sister called me crying. 
Just writing this i'm crying. It is hard.


----------



## RoahT

I'm so so sorry!! Praying for you!!! :'( hugs


----------



## Hens and Roos

our deepest sympathy to you and your family


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## Latestarter

Sincere condolences... Just remember he's in a better place now and beyond the reach of the pain he was in. The pain you're in will lessen over time and you'll recall all the good memories.


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you everyone. I know time will ease all heartache. That's exactly why my Aunt is putting off a service. She wants time to mourn. She wants it to be in good spirits remembering all the good times. 


I think Rose our ND is bred. Though she shouldn't be. I can see the does from the kitchen window. As I was doing dishes I noticed Rose going to the bathroom. What caught my attention was the amount of goo that was coming out of her.

The only way she could be bred is a buck escape. I'm unaware of that happening. I asked DH & my oldest daughter (both help with the goats.) They do not recall them escaping. DH said he's not 100% sure, but can not recall any escape. I went out and checked on Rose. She is developing an udder. She's very swollen as well. I have not been paying attention to her as much as the does we bred. I have been monitoring udder development in the three does I bred. Willow, Honey & Marshmallow. With them being due Jan. I'm keeping notes on udder growth, any discharge, etc. That way I can look back next time they kid.

Anyways I am concerned on when she got bred, she's 10 months old. I do not have a vet that does anything for goats. Any ideas on when she might be due going off of udder? She has been off grain like the rest of the does, since they all were getting chubby. 

Here is a picture of rose & the goo i noticed. 



 
Her udder is more developed than Marshmallows. I know udder development differs greatly depending on the goat. I had no intention of breeding her until next year. I weighed her 9/30 she was 57 lbs. She's almost as big as Honey. 
This was yesterday that I noticed the goo. I gave her a small amount of grain last night and this morning.


----------



## lalabugs

Standing over Rose she does not have a belly. Her stomach has not gotten any larger. I went out and measured all the does. Took a couple pics of honey and marshmallow. Rose stomach measures 40", Marshmallows 43 3/4" & Honey's is 46 1/2". Honey and Marshmallow look large. Honey is quite large, comparing her to last years pregnancy she looks even larger now. Even at her biggest with her last pregnancy she is larger now. 



 Honey 8 weeks 3 days until she's due. 




 Marshmallow 7 weeks 1 day until she's due.


----------



## RoahT

Maybe this is a silly guess, I don't have any experience with goats, but from my experience with cows and sheep, maybe she is just in heat????  Of course that usually doesn't make an udder bag up. IDK, just thinking out loud.


----------



## lalabugs

I hope it's just heat. I am a worry wart. Maybe a precocious udder? Hopefully that's all it is.


----------



## Southern by choice

lalabugs said:


> Thank you everyone. I know time will ease all heartache. That's exactly why my Aunt is putting off a service. She wants time to mourn. She wants it to be in good spirits remembering all the good times


Everyone grieves and mourns a little differently.  I am glad that the family respects her wanting to put off the service just yet.


As far as your doe... hmmm.... goos catch, and you are paying attention so you will be prepared either way.
It could be a precocious udder... a few of my does get alot of mucous in heat. Time will tell.

All the goats are getting huge. We are going through the same thing... expecting large litters.


----------



## TAH

Just caught up @lalabugs, sorry to hear about your uncle.


----------



## lalabugs

I was just informed the service is Thursday. Sooner than we all thought. Especially after my aunt letting everyone know that it would not be a fast service. I'm getting over a horrible bug. I'm hoping I will be over it before Thursday. Otherwise I will not be able to make the trip. With Aunt Rose just getting over pneumonia, I do not want to be around her sick. 

I will be keeping an eye on rose. Kidding season seems so close and so far away! With the holidays it is going by faster. 
My twin sons turn 12 tomorrow. It doesn't feel like it's been 12 years! How the time flies!


----------



## lalabugs

Positive we had a buck escape. When I went to check on Rose. I checked our fainting goat. Who also should not be bred. She had no udder.

Last night I hear a goat screaming. I go check, it's our fainting goat. I check her over, she has goo coming out of her. She now has a full udder! She is not having contractions. But still having goo. We searched her pen there was no baby, nothing in the pen. She keeps having discharge, but it just seems off colored. 

I don't know if this is a miscarriage, false pregnancy or early stages of labor? Help please! 


 this was last night. 



 this was 20 minutes ago. 

I am stressing over her. I have her set up in a birthing pen with webcam.


----------



## lalabugs

Discharge now looks like it has blood in it. She is being beyond vocal. I put one of our other goats in with her she would not calm down. I let her out, she would not calm down. Brought her in the house with us, she is no longer being vocal. She is however being glued to us. The second we're out of sight she's freaking out again. I do not want to go in and check her if it is not needed. I just do not know what to do.


----------



## Hens and Roos

can you take her temperature to see if it's in the normal range (100-102) depending on where you are located.

@Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice @OneFineAcre @babsbag


----------



## lalabugs

Temp 102.6


----------



## Hens and Roos

is she pacing, pawing the ground, laying down and getting up- like she's trying to get comfortable?  I know several of ours get clingy as they get ready to deliver.


----------



## lalabugs

She is pacing. She is not pawing, laying down & getting up.


----------



## lalabugs

The other two labors I was apart of once we saw the amber goo it was a matter of an hour then they were in full blown labor. I have not seen any contractions. 
I will get a pic of the color of the discharge now.


----------



## Southern by choice

I really think you should call in a vet. 
The discharge does not look good at all. 
The vet can see if there is a heartbeat in there, if the cervix is dilating, can detect minor contractions, and palpate or bump with greater skill then we can (generally).


----------



## lalabugs




----------



## Southern by choice

Yeah, that's not normal. Doesn't look good.


----------



## lalabugs

I called around trying to see if any vet will see her. No one deals with goats. Ahhh. I went ahead and gloved up. She has no baby in her. I can not feel anything. Could it just be a false pregnancy? Would she bag up?


----------



## lalabugs

Should I milk her?


----------



## Southern by choice

You are sure there is no dead kid in the field? It really looks alot like afterbirth fluids.
Does it smell?
Most cattle vets will see a goat in an emergency... this is so sad you cannot find a vet. 
Do you have a regular vet at all? I know so many live in areas where there simply is no vets. The universities are usually $$$$$$$$$$$$!

You could milk her and see what comes out... I really am not much help here, sorry.


----------



## lalabugs

I have a vet for my dogs, yes. She is only small animals. She refuses to see any farm animal. Love her as a vet for my dogs though. We have 2 small animal vets and 2 large animal vets. None will see a goat.

I got a hold of a breeder up here as well. She said that none of the vets will see goats here. That you really have to learn how to take care of them yourself.  She said she's guessing that it was just a false pregnancy. 

I did not feel anything. No smell. There was no blood or bloody looking discharge on the glove. 

I did milk her. It is not normal colostrum. It's not thick. It is just white milk. After milking her, she is outside and no longer freaking out.


----------



## lalabugs

No dead baby any where. I checked twice, my husband checked twice & my oldest daughter checked twice. That was my first thought when I seen the goo and wet legs last night.


----------



## Southern by choice

Wonder if it was a burst.  
@babsbag @goatgurl  have either of you seen this before?


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

@lalabugs Condolences on the passing of your Uncle Bill.


----------



## Mini Horses

I'm considering infection with the goat ...early stage.  I'd flush her if she were mine, after I was certain no kid in there.  Looks too thick for any afterbirth fluids, IMO.  Generally the placenta drops and does not look like that,  the rest is far thinner fluid.  

Now, any chance she may have aborted a few days ago?  Not cleaned out? How far would/should she be if preg?  An owl, hawk, fox could have taken the kid(s).   Just my thoughts from the picture.  Also possibility she never conceived and has a uterine infection......


----------



## lalabugs

The does all get locked up in their own personal birthing pen at night. When I put the does up she did not have anything on her. We check on the goats periodically through out the day while they're out and about. She had nothing on her. She was in her birthing pen a good 3 hours before she started screaming. When I noticed the first discharge/wetness on her. 

I honestly do not know how far along she should have been. She was not suppose to be bred. I'm assuming we had a buck escape I was never told about because of this and Rose getting an udder. Roses udder is getting bigger, when ever she kids. I'll have a time frame when the bucks got out. The fluids do not look anything like a normal birth. 

With a uterine infection would she have a higher temp?


----------



## Latestarter

Generally speaking, any time there is an infection there will be a temp swing, either high or low. The bigger the infection being fought, the bigger the temp swing.


----------



## babsbag

I had a goat abort her kids late pregnancy and went on to milk for 6 months. Wouldn't settle the next year and vet said probably a low grade uterine infection caused scar tissue and I never noticed. She never skipped a beat, no sign of illness at all. Now I flush any doe that miscarries or gives birth to dead kids.


----------



## lalabugs

I continue to check her temp. It has stayed in the same range. No spike or drop. She is still having discharge. 

Not to sound stupid, but i'm assuming you mean to give them antibiotics to flush them? If so, what antibiotic and how much? I have 0 antibiotics. I would have to run to the feed store.


----------



## babsbag

My vet does a uterine flush with tetracycline powder in water but not sure you can buy that anymore or if you would have the tools to do it. I don't. I use a uterine bolus that a friend gave me but I am not sure that they would actually treat an infection, they are more of a preventative.  Maybe get her a shot of lute to clean her out?


----------



## lalabugs

Lute is a vet rx right? I do not know how I will get it. The vets here will not see goats. 

Just to explain the vets thoughts here. The breeder I bought our Mini Nubian from called every vet up here. Her doe was in labor and in distress. She tried getting every vet out to help her doe. The two large animal vets told her they would not drive to see just a goat. The doe died that night. This has been my experience as well. They will not even give the CD&T or do blood draws. Nothing.


----------



## Hens and Roos

lalabugs said:


> Lute is a vet rx right? I do not know how I will get it. The vets here will not see goats.
> 
> Just to explain the vets thoughts here. The breeder I bought our Mini Nubian from called every vet up here. Her doe was in labor and in distress. She tried getting every vet out to help her doe. The two large animal vets told her they would not drive to see just a goat. The doe died that night. This has been my experience as well. They will not even give the CD&T or do blood draws. Nothing.



yes, I think you need a vet rx to get Lute.  

we give our own CD&T shots and draw blood to send in for testing.  We struggled to find a vet in our area that would see goats, we got lucky and found a vet that is willing to help us out even though he doesn't know a lot about goats.


----------



## Latestarter

lalabugs said:


> She tried getting every vet out to help her doe. The two large animal vets told her _they would not drive to see just a goat_. The doe died that night.



If they won't do a farm call for a single goat, does that mean they won't see a goat if you brought it in to them? I mean, if it's a life or death issue, couldn't you put down some blankets or sheets or something and put the goat in the back seat and take it to them? You really should try to establish a relationship with one of the vets so even if they won't actually DO anything for your animals, at least they may be willing to write the prescriptions to get the stuff you can't get otherwise.

For the CD&T and blood draws, it's relatively easy to do yourself. As H&R said above... you can buy the goat CD&T as well as needles and syringes at most farm stores or order it all online. Same for the test tubes for blood samples... There are plenty if videos online you can watch to see how it's done. You might be a little nervous the first time but once you've done it, you'll see it's really not difficult. (especially if unlike me, you have a helper to assist holding the goat)


----------



## lalabugs

I should have explained better. I do have a vet. She is a great vet for small animals. She will not see farm animals. She recommended the one large animal vet. However that large animal vet does NOT see goats. He does not have an office. He only does farm calls. 

The second large animal vet will also not see goats, unless it's to put them down. He is also extremely rude. I will not use him, even for euthanasia. The other small animal vet will see horses only. Not goats. She will see animals to euthanize an animal that is suffering. 

I do not have a issue with giving CDT or doing blood draw. I was just using it as an example, that something so simple they do not do. I even asked both large animal vets if they could just draw the blood and I would send off the blood to the place. Would not do that. I have given CDT and drew blood myself. I give my dogs all their shots (besides rabies). It would make it a million times easier to have a vet come out and do it. 

I am making calls to the city & surrounding areas large animal vets to see if I can find one that will see her. Hopefully I can find someone.


----------



## Mini Horses

Call your vet -- the small animal one -- ask if she will send a sample to be checked/cultured for infection if you bring it in....OR where can you take it to find out.   If the mucus shows infection, they can do a sensitivity to tell you what to give to cure.  Until then, you could consider giving her a broad spectran antibiotic that "may" prove helpful to clear her up if in fact it is an infection.

To be certain, this is not normal for her.  There are only so many reasons for a discharge and we've pretty well covered them.  Now, you need to choose for yourself.   I can only suggest what I would do if it were my goat and that's what I have done.

A flush is introducing meds into the goat's uterine, thru the vaginal tract.  A pipette is normally used to place the meds.   I have done many horses, same as AI for them.  It is something you need to know how to do as you will enter the cervix and it needs to be open.   Well goats are smaller and it's a little more complicated......not something you do without training.  Sorry.   BUT I would persue defining the mucus.  For one, to help the doe as it could cause long term issues.  For two, IF a buck breeds her and then another doe, it is possible the result will be 3 goats with a medical issue.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

First- I am terribly sorry to hear of your recent loss 

I agree with @Mini Horses 
You might be able to go directly through UC Davis and see if you can send out a sample yourself. I have never experienced something like this, so am not much help there BUT I do know that goats can carry dead kids for quite sometime (years). Sometimes they will mummify, sometimes not. 

I know a breeder here in NC had a doe that had a rough kidding (it was either a 1 or 2 kids). After that the doe would never settle. After over a year of this they had the vet out. The vet had to do an internal exam and found a mummified kid 

I am still catching up here- but did you ever "go in" and see if you could feel anything? Sorry if I missed it.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Where in CA are you? If worse comes to worse you could look at this- 
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vmth/large_animal/index.cfm

But I know it can really add up money wise…


----------



## lalabugs

I found a vet to see Diva. I was told that she probably had a cloudburst. Sometimes they can have a bloody discharge. Sometimes they do not. No fever, no foul smell. Did not put her on any meds. Double checked to make sure she had no kids in her. She did not. Was told if anything changed, fever or smell to get her back in. 

Diva discharge stopped a few days ago. We have been checking her for a fever every day. No fever. She is completely dried up. Today she was flirting with the buck. Is it normal for them to go back into heat that fast? I did not ask the vet about going back into heat. Was not even thinking about that. Just wanted to make sure she was okay. 

Other does updates. 

Rose is getting a good size udder. She has to be bred. She continues to lose small bits of plug. 


 Rose on 12/13

Marshmallow is due 1/18/18. Her udder is smaller than Roses udder. 


  Marshmallow on 12/13

I do not know when to give Rose her CDT shot. 

I do not think pumpkin is pregnant. Her udder is now completely gone. I have not seen her in heat either. 

Willow & Honey are looking huge! I can not wait for babies! Need to get new pictures of Willow & Honey. Been stressing over Diva & Rose.


----------



## Mini Horses

lalabugs said:


> I was told that she probably had a cloudburst. Sometimes they can have a bloody discharge.



What is that??           Is she a vet & meteorologist?


----------



## Southern by choice

Mini Horses said:


> What is that??           Is she a vet & meteorologist?


This is what I thought might have happened as well. 
Cloudburst is a real thing - basically a bubble that has the sac fluid but no kid. Like water bags... cloudy though.


 
https://books.google.com/books?id=f...EIQTAJ#v=onepage&q=cloudburst kidding&f=false


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I believe @Sweetened had the same thing happen a few years ago.


----------



## lalabugs

Does anyone have Nigerian dwarf FF progress pictures? Trying to be prepared for Rose to give birth. Just do not know how far out she is. I would like to give her the CDT in the correct amount of time.

Honey is HUGE! She has 5 weeks 6 days left. She's a lot larger than last years pregnancy. 


  Picture taken today. Any guesses on how many she has?


----------



## Southern by choice

There is no way to tell, every goat is different as well as developing udders... especially on a FF.

Waiting with you


----------



## lalabugs

I figured that would be the answer. Worth a shot asking. I'm going to give Rose the CDT when I give Marshmallow hers. Hopefully she will have it in her system long enough.

Roses ligs are soft. You can feel them but really have to search for them. Not sure how much that's going to help me as Honeys I could always slightly feel. Willows ligs were gone 48 hours then she went into labor.

I just came in from giving the goats hot water into their water buckets. Rose is breathing hard. Udder does not look full to me. Though I have only dealt with a mini nubian FF. Rose is going to stress me out! I'll be going out to check on her occasionally through out the day.


----------



## Sweetened

Goat Whisperer said:


> I believe @Sweetened had the same thing happen a few years ago.



Yup, two summers ago, Poplar had a cloudburst. Started building a nice udder and then poof, it was gone and she was slim.


----------



## lalabugs

Has anyone observed goats having braxton hicks contractions? I never seen Honey have contractions until she was in labor and had a baby on the ground. Willow I did not notice contractions. I seen the rope an hour later she was having hard contractions. 

Rose has been having what appear to be Braxton hicks contractions for 2 solid days. She is not pushing. But you can see when she is having a contraction. Stops what shes doing, nostrils flared, breathing heavy. I felt babies move yesterday. Was getting kicked and felt a couple rolls. 

Gave her a horrible birth shave, she was NOT happy about it. Resulting in her horrible shave. 



Today 12/27


  12/13

Any insight?


----------



## lalabugs

Kidding season is approaching for us. Marshmallow has 16 days, Willow has 18 days & Honey has 25 days. We are all excited. 

Rose has been having labor or prelabor signs. She has been stretching & head pressing. Last night I seen her have two big contractions. Then she jumped up, stretched a couple times. Then laid down like nothing happened. Not knowing a due date is driving me crazy!


----------



## Southern by choice

I hate when they fake you out!


----------



## babsbag

I cleaned out a kidding stall the other night for one that was having contractions and even pushing a little. No udder but she sure looked ready.  Two hours later she was eating dinner and acting like she has a month to go...and she might.


----------



## lalabugs

Rose has been doing a great job on faking us out! Not sure when she will kid. I will be happy if it's next month. At least she will be over a year old. 

Marshmallow has 8 days left! We are beyond excited. She has had no signs that she's even getting close. Her udder has slowly been getting larger. No goo what so ever, has not dropped yet. Web cam will go up in her kidding stall tomorrow. 

Willow has 10 days left. No signs so far from willow that she's starting to get close. Udder slowly filling. 

Honey has 17 days left. She is already starting to look like the babies are starting to drop.

We are beyond excited for kidding season to start.


----------



## Hens and Roos

for smooth kiddings!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I am so excited for you! You have done a great job with Marshmallow, I can’t wait to see her kids!


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you. 

Marshmallow has come a long way! I will post pictures as soon as she kids. We're super excited! Marshmallow was a single, we are hoping for twins from her. 

Rose filled her udder last night. Though not shiny. First pic taken 1/8/18. 
Second pic taken this morning 1/11/18. 


 

 
Generally after a doe fills her udder, what is the typical time frame that they kid?


----------



## Latestarter

From my understanding... After udder fill (starts) could be 24 hours to 3 weeks... (or more?)  Sorry... Hope it's soon for you (and her).   I imagine less for those having already kidded in the past. Maybe their bodies "know more"... and maybe longer for FFs...


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Doe Code: whenever it's most inconvenient for you!


----------



## RoahT

Wehner Homestead said:


> Doe Code: whenever it's most inconvenient for you!


So true!!!!!!


----------



## lalabugs

@Wehner Homestead SO TRUE!

Marshmallow is 2 days from her due date! We're excited! Her udder is filling nicely, she has started to have goo. We're suppose to get rain on her due date, snow the day after. Hoping she does not go a day over having them during the snow storm. Knowing the doe code, she probably will. 

Willow is 4 days until her due date. Her udder is SLOWLY filling. Can barely notice a difference. 

Honey is 11 days away. Her udder is filling noticeably. Honey is huge! Everyone here is guessing quads. 

Rose has not had any more signs of labor or prelabor. She is still having small amounts of discharge. Her udder is getting larger still. Who knows when she'll kid. Hopefully in Feb.


----------



## lalabugs

Today is day 145 for Marhsmallow. She was having contractions last night. I assume it was getting kids into position. She did a lot of stretching. Anxiously waiting for her to go in labor.
I will get pictures of her later.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Hope all goes well!


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you. I hope so. 

Marshmallow is now wanting NOTHING to do with any of us. This is unusual behavior for her. She is now running away from us, not even letting us get close enough to get a good picture. Hopefully we will have babies some time today.


----------



## lalabugs

No babies yet. A lot of heavy breathing and stretching last night. 

DH says Willow & Marshmallow will kid tomorrow. His day off.


----------



## lalabugs

Willow is day 145. Does not look like she will be kidding today.

Today is day 147 for Marshmallow. Not sure on her, she's been doing a lot of stretching, lip curling, pawing, can not get comfortable.


----------



## lalabugs

Marshmallow is pushing!!!!


----------



## RoahT

How exciting! I can hardly wait to see pics of the kids!


----------



## Dani4Hedgies

Push Marshmallow push you can do it sweetie get those babies out


----------



## Wehner Homestead




----------



## lalabugs

Marshmallow had a single doeling! She's 5lbs. Wattles & blue eyes. I was afraid of her having a single, due to marshmallow being a single. Had to help deliver her. She's 75% Nigerian 25% Lamancha. We will be retaining her.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

She’s adorable! Congratulations!!


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you! I will post more pictures tomorrow.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Congratulations!! 

Mini marshmallow! 

You know I love that goat, you did such an amazing job with her. And she’s a mini mancha, what’s not to love?! 

AND she has little ears


----------



## newton the goat

Shes so tiny  congratulations! Im so jealous! 

Deffinitly need to see more pictures of the little mini marshmallow!!!


----------



## Latestarter

Congrats! What an adorable tiny goat!


----------



## Southern by choice

Congrats! 
How adorable is that! Tooo stinkin' cute

Her ears are so cute!


----------



## Dani4Hedgies

Awwww look at the little fuzzy hi pretty girl welcome home


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you everyone. 
We have named her Blondie after marshmallow blondies. Play on marshmallows name.
Marshmallow has a sweet spot in our heart. She will never leave. I need to get pictures of Marshmallow. Trying to get pictures of Blondie with out Marshmallows face covering 1/2 the picture is HARD! lol I have so many pictures of just Marshmallows face. rofl 

I milked Marshmallow this morning. She has tiny teats. Taking longer to milk her. I have messed with marshmallows udder/teats since we brought her home. Milking her was easy! She kicked once, Blondie got out of her line of sight. I did not fully milk Marshmallow out. She gave us 1 lb 11 oz. She will be milked again tonight. With having a single, I want to make sure Marshmallows udder stays even. 

More pictures as promised. 



 

 

 

 

Waiting on Willow who is now 2 days over due. Her udder is filling nicely. DH is hoping later today.


----------



## Dani4Hedgies

omg blondie is just sooo cute I GOTTA get me some of this breed of goat


----------



## TAH

OMG, So stinking cute! 

Congrats! 

 for Willow.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Love Blondie and her name! Best of luck with Willow!


----------



## lalabugs

I think Rose is going into labor. Udder is huge, breathing hard, was screaming her head off until we came and sat with her. Ligaments are gone. She keeps hunching & stretching out.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I thought we were waiting on Willow and Rose snuck in on us!! Sounds like lots of kids headed your way!!  everything goes well!


Edited because I said Red instead of Rose!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Rose is you young doe, right? Her udder looks huge! 

We have a few that scream for me while they are in labor/pre-labor. I love how they want their people near. 

I hope all goes well!


----------



## lalabugs

Yes, Rose is the young doe that shouldn't have been bred. Her udder is HUGE! I believe she's in prelabor, she is still breathing hard. Complains if we are out of sight. No active pushing yet. 

While I was sitting with Rose, Willow went into labor! Willow had two bucks. I had to help with both. Both presented with a leg backwards! They're 7 lbs & 6.3 lbs. Babies are 25% Nigerian, 25% Nubian, 50% Lamancha. They will be wethered when old enough. Willow and both her boys will be going to live with my sister once she comes down to get them.

Buck born first, DH named him Alpha. 


 
Second Buck. DH named him Bravo.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Congratulations!!!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Those are some cute boys! Hope they do well for your sister. 

C’mon Rose! Don’t keep Lalabugs up all night waiting on you!


----------



## Southern by choice

Oh, this is so exciting!

Love when they all go at the same time! So much easier. 

They are adorable.
Love all the pics... we need more


----------



## Latestarter

Congrats! Let's go Rose! Let's make this a trifecta!


----------



## lalabugs

Rose finished kidding with assistance around 12:49am! We ended up making Rose a pen in our living room since she was NOT happy when we were away from her. My oldest daughter was sitting right next to Rose. Rose has chosen my oldest as her person.
Rose had started pushing. However she was not progressing. I decided to go in. Thank goodness I did!!! She had two kids trying to come out at once!!! Last night was absolutely terrifying! I was able to move one and get one started in the birth canal. She still was struggling not getting the other out. Went back in. AGAIN two trying to come out at once!!! They were all tangled up trying to be delivered at once. This happened with every kid!!! Finally down to the last one, his head was backwards!!! Rose had QUADS! She is 8 days shy of her 1st birthday. Would have liked to have her kid after her first.
Rose had 1 doe, 3 bucks!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Congrats! You are good goat mom! 

We had the same thing happen a few years ago. My doe Leah was a small FF (2 years old though) and had quads. First kid came without an issue, then an ear and leg presented... different kids. Got everything untangled and and the dam was okay. She also had 3 bucks & 1 doe!
This doe has since kidded 2 times since then, and will freshen next month. Each time having quads & quints! Other then her first kidding, she doesn't need assistance birthing.

Will you be keeping any?


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Yay for Rose!! Good job on intervening! So glad the kids made it out safely. They sure are cute!


----------



## lalabugs

I hope Rose is like Leah with not needing assistance her next kiddings. We are keeping the doe. Bucks will be wethered. DH is in love with the grey looking one. He might be staying. lol We will see after Honey kids. He loves all the baby goats. He is completely smitten with them. If he had his way NONE would leave.


----------



## RoahT

Awww, so adorable!!!!!! Every single one of em!  you're making me jealous!


----------



## Southern by choice

Living room! Love it!

Great job! They are beautiful.


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you everyone. We love all the babies. What does a freemartin look like? Should I be worried that the doe may possibly be?
The weights of Rose's kids are 4.1, 3.4, 3.1 & 3 lbs. 

They're still in the living room. lol. Want to make sure they're all eating. Should Rose be able to feed all 4 or should I be thinking about bottle feeding 1 or 2?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Those are awesome weights for quads. Rose is probably happy to be a few pounds lighter   

I don’t know much about freemartins, but I have had quite a few doelings born from triplets/quads/quints and have no problem being bred. Except one doe, but I don’t know if it’s related to her being a quint. Her sister got bred with no problem and is due to kid next month.

I would start supplementing a few kids, that way they are accustomed to the bottle and will take one if Rose isn’t keeping up.

ETA UC Davis can do freemartin testing… for $50 a goat.


----------



## Latestarter

Just curious... what brought up the freemartin question/issue/subject? I didn't think that was an all that common occurrence (w/goats) and more predominant with m/f twins in cattle...   Congrats on a successful quad delivery! I'm sure you must feel very relieved that you got through it! Nicely done!  Great pics! Thanks for sharing. So you have one more to go, right?


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I have to agree with Latestarter. We had Boers before and had litters with both genders and the only doe we ever had an issue breeding was a single. Free martins are a bovine issue that some people have tried to gift the attribute to caprines. I think you should be just just fine to keep her!


----------



## lalabugs

I witnessed the doe humping her brother this morning. At first I thought she was just trying to play, but no she got up grabbed a hold of him and started it again. 

I weighed all of the quads. The only one who is not up is the smallest. He is now at 2 lb 4 oz from 3 lb last night. He was just laying around with no energy. I made sure all got colostrum last night. Gave him a bottle. He took 3/4 oz.


----------



## lalabugs

Honey is the only one we have left to kid. She's due in 4 days.


----------



## Latestarter

I don't think the humping issue really means anything at this point... I think that's more a dominance issue than anything else (at this point). Additionally, I've never heard that (humping) as an indication of free martin...  Again, I have no idea...  just curious...


----------



## Latestarter

OK... https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/freemartin-goat.php    "Incidence of freemartinism in goats is generally low (less than 1%), increased risk has been observed when litter sizes are four or more."  Humph... nice to know... Still, not very common...


----------



## Goat Whisperer

FM’s _can _happen with goats. But it’s not very common. I really wouldn’t worry about it unless the doe isn’t settling. But you do run a bigger risk with quads/quints etc.
We’ve had several sets of quads. The does bred/carried kids just fine. 2 years ago Leah (ND) had quints, 3 bucks 2 does. I kept both doelings. One bred and settled first time. She’s due next month. Her sister on the other hand has not settled despite being bred several times, with different bucks.
But she developed a rough coat, which is odd because the rest of the herd looks good and have very healthy coats. So it could be a mineral issue. She had a copper bolus as did the rest of the herd, who all settled without issue. She was the only doe we gave Selenium to pre-breeding since she didn’t settle when we bred her last spring. I’m not doing any testing right now, but if she doesn’t take by spring I probably will run a FM test.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Posting at the same time as LS…


----------



## lalabugs

It could be. I'm not really sure I have not seen doe kids do that this young. Then again I am still relatively new to goats. Only 2nd year breeding. I have only seen does do that when another doe was in heat. 

I did a google search, coming across one study. 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261215349_Freemartinism_Three_Cases_in_Goats

It was an interesting read.


----------



## Latestarter

Wonder if all three cases involved the same herd? and how diverse the genetics were in said herd (line breeding/sibling breeding)... Hmmm always more questions.


----------



## lalabugs

A lot more questions. Trying to find any actual study done on goats, that was the only one I came across. 

We are keeping Roses doe. We have not come up with names yet.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I've been raising goats for 25+ years and I DID have a freemartin doe.  She was a triplet with two brothers.  It can happen, but like most have said, not terribly common.

This doe was beautiful and did well in the show ring, but could never perm out because she never produced a kid.  (A pygmy must produce a live kid to become a permanent grand champion.)

This doe never came in heat and from outside examination her lady parts looked tiny.  I had an internal exam done by a veterinarian (and myself).  Her vagina was very short and was basically a blind pocket.

My vet, at that time, said that if the female shares a horn of the uterus with a male then the likelihood of a freemartin is increased.  Females that develop in their own horn of the uterus are generally ok - according to  him. 

She lived a very long, unproductive life but was one of our sweetest gals so she stayed with us forever.  She ended up being a companion to a buck and they were both happy.


----------



## lalabugs

I tend to worry. Glad to know that it is rare to happen.

Marshmallow is giving me 1 lb 8 oz 2x a day. I am not fully milking her out and her doe is on her 24/7. I think she'll be a great milker for our family. How much will teat placement change every freshening? Her one teat really points out, making milking interesting. 
Pictures of Marshmallow this morning before I cleaned her up & milked her. Thoughts on her udder? 






 

Waiting on Honey. She's due tomorrow. Her udder is not full yet.


----------



## lalabugs

Honey is due tomorrow but she is prolapsing. It goes back in when she stands up. But it's getting severely worse when she lays down. Udder still not full. Anything I need to do for the prolapse? Could it pose an issue during labor?


----------



## Southern by choice

Some of the Nigies that have huge litters do have times when it looks like they are going too especially when they lay down. Like yours, when they stand all is well. 
More than likely she won't have an issue...since she is due now. Be prepared for assistance though. If she has alot in there they can easily get tangled.


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you. I was stressing over it. I have everything ready just in case. She had them at midnight last year, she also went 2 days over last year. With the prolapse starting I really hope she does not go over again.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Prayers that Honey kids without any issues!!


----------



## lalabugs

Honey had 5!!!!! ALL DOES!!!! We pulled two that we are bottle feeding. I will get pics and birth story a little later. Getting momma and babies all cleaned up and settled in.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Congrats!  That's super, glad to hear it went well!


----------



## RoahT

Wohoah!! That's impressive! Congrats!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

That's aweome - congrats!


----------



## newton the goat

Holy cow!!! ... i mean goat XD 
Five doelings??? thats insane! Congratulations though!!  hope to see lots of pics soon


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Five DOES?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

You need to go give the sire some extra goodies for throwing all those girls! 

Congrats- five times over!


----------



## lalabugs

Right as I went to make dinner, I see honey pushing on the webcam. She was pushing hard. Started hollering then stopped pushing. I decided to go in. First one had head down, it was coming ears first. Got head up in right position. Honey pushed her out with no issue. Next honey pushed doe #2 out breech! Number three came with no issue. Honey was having issues with #4, head was not in the right position. Same with number 5. All does! I knew she had more than 3. As she was larger than last year when she had triplets. Holy cow 5! 
We pulled two inside to bottle raise. 
Weights are 2.2 lbs, 3.2 lb, 2.8 lb, 2.7 lb, 2.5 lbs


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Cuteness overload!!


----------



## newton the goat

They are too cute!!! Esspecially the tri color one lol


----------



## Southern by choice

Yeah, figured there would be a whole litter in there!
Great job!

Curious as why you didn't pull 3 to keep her udder even?

All does?


----------



## Latestarter

wow... hope you bought a lottery ticket! 5 doelings... wow. amazing. Congrats and great assist! Love the pics


----------



## babsbag

Love that spotted one. Since I don't get spots with my Alpines or LaManchas seeing your spots makes me want one. That is a lot of girl power and I bet mom was glad to get rid of that load.


----------



## promiseacres




----------



## lalabugs

Thank you everyone. @Southern by choice I was not even thinking about that. I was just thinking how in the world is she going to feed all of them. I asked DH to bring another one inside. 

Now to come up with names. DH said he's keeping the spotted one. Besides her not sure if we will be keeping more from Honey. I also need to get some more pictures of the other babies. I let them all out to play today for the first time. They were having a blast.


----------



## BoboFarm

Congratulations! How exciting!


----------



## Southern by choice

You can actually let them all have mom and supplement if you want.  I love the coparenting thing. They get that bond with mom and nurturing yet tummies stay full.


----------



## RoahT

Awe! SOOOOOOOO CUTE!!! I can't even!


----------



## luvmypets

Oh. My. Gosh. I just. What. I dont know how i will survive without spring lambs. And seeing baby pics makes me crave them even more


----------



## Dani4Hedgies

Omg way to go Honey great job and all your babies are sooo pretty


----------



## lalabugs

How do you get them to coparent on the bottle? I tried to bottle feed two of Rose bucks. They were NOT having it. Marshmallow is giving us a good amount of milk. We have been supplementing two of Rose's kids on Marshmallow. 

Now how to choose what does are staying from Honey? What are your absolute criteria to keep a kid? DH has his based on color. I do not want to base mine off of color. But ahh how to choose. Three does will be sold, but who. 

DH named the spotted doe Aster.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

5 Does!!! I can’t imagine!  I’d keep them all but I’m trying to grow my herd by leaps and bounds this year... Either way, congratulations!

As far as deciding who to retain, others with more experience can give input based on that. Personally, when considering the quints, I would look at conformation. Since you have the ability to be choosing amongst them. You could always wait until they are older and personalities develop more too.


----------



## Latestarter

Oh no WH... it goes well beyond that now... You have to grow them out and freshen them twice to get a real idea of their true quality... THEN you can sell the ones that don't measure up. I mean how else are you to determine which ones carry the "litter" trait over say singles? Or which one will have the best udder? Oh no... can't sell any of them for at least two freshenings!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I’m going to use LS’ reasons to keep ALL females from here on out! 

On a more serious note, I have a doe due to a buck that isn’t proven and I want to see if he can improve her udder on offspring. She’s due in April and I hope to get grandkids from him next year to see what his daughter does. He’s on a breeding hiatus until then and his fate will be decided on that...

I also have matching bucklings out of the triplets. I’m keeping one but selling the other. I have to choose one somehow... I am leaning towards confirmation but they’ll be a week old tomorrow and I can’t pick out a deciding difference on that note yet. I don’t have to rush to sell one so I have that on my side. One has waddles and one doesn’t. That may be a deciding factor...we like waddles!


----------



## Mini Horses

Holy cow!!  I didn't get 5 doelings from 6 does last year!!  Had a buck year...9 & 4.  

Congrats!!!      I would love to sit and play with them!  They are just so adorable.   Talk about cute overload -- you have it!!


----------



## lalabugs

Pic heavy. Some pics of some of the babies. As I was going through the pics a lot are blurs as they're running and jumping. lol




Roses kid, Hyde. He is my favorite. We're not keeping him.



 Iris- Roses kid. Keeping.


 Lark- Roses kid. Not keeping. He is such a love. He comes running for you when you come outside. He gives kisses. DH loves this little guy.



 One in front Zin- Roses kid. Not keeping. Directly behind Zin is Honey's kid- no name yet. We're keeping her. White leg in the back is Honeys doe- Gemini. Not keeping her.





 Honeys does Aries and Gemini.




Alpha & Bravo.

Need to get pics that are not blurry of Blondie, Aster & Babs.


----------



## Mike CHS

Like all the other cute kid pictures, cute doesn't seem adequate but they are all adorable.


----------



## RoahT

I can't even express how cute they are! Thanks so much for sharing!!


----------



## lalabugs

It appears I was wrong about pumpkin. When her udder got smaller instead of bigger, after we brought her home. I thought she was not pregnant. I moved her into a pen with spice to get weight back on her. Really have not been paying a lot of attention to udder or anything. 

Yesterday morning she looked like she dropped, her tail head is raised. Ligaments are gone. Udder was not full yesterday. Udder is almost completely full this morning. Moved her to a birthing pen. 

Will get pics later of her.


----------



## Mike CHS

They just like to keep you guessing.


----------



## Mike CHS

They just like to keep you guessing.


----------



## Dani4Hedgies

WAITING FOR THE NEW KID PICS


----------



## lalabugs

They really do like to keep me guessing. 

Pumpkin had a single buckling. He's exactly 7 lbs! I had to help pull him out. She was not getting him out past the feet. He is adorable! What is his color considered? He's a F6 Mini Lamancha. I will get better pics after he's fully dry.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Congratulations!!! I thought I was going to post pop) until I kept scrolling!  Gotta love doe code! Now I can post this !!


----------



## lalabugs

Here are better pics of him. What is his color? He has cream on his head and back legs.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

@Goat Whisperer 
@goatgurl @Southern by choice are the Lamancha lovers that I know of that may be able to answer your question. I know that GW and SBC are busy with Leah’s kids and the issues with Red. GG doesn’t get on regularly. They will get to you though.


----------



## Southern by choice

He is beautiful!  
He looks like he will be a chamoise.


----------



## Hens and Roos

very cute, cool coloring!


----------



## RoahT

I don't know what the coloring is called, but I love it, he's so cute!


----------



## lalabugs

I really like this little guy. 

Pumpkin has a really small udder. She was not in the best condition when we brought her home. We have been working on getting her in better health since then. She was 48.5 lbs when we brought her home. Only owned her 4 months. Just weighed her. She's 61.5 lbs. 

I will be sending in a fecal as well.  Got 3 oz out of her this morning. I got 27 oz out of Marshmallow the day after she freshened. Both had singles. She has unlimited Alfalfa & Mineral. She gets grain 2x a day. 

I worry that she will not produce enough to feed the buckling as he grows.


----------



## Latestarter

The kid continuously suckling should help/entice momma to make more, but you could always augment. If you want to co-parent, you might want to start giving the buckling a bottle now so he learns that it's as good as momma's teat.


----------



## lalabugs

Good idea. I did start supplementing with a bottle. She milked slightly more this morning. Got 6 oz.


----------



## lalabugs

Has anyone dealt with bringing a severely emaciated dog back with out over doing it? 

A part of living where we're at is getting dumps. Most of the times I take them down to the local shelter. However this dog is old, nothing but skin and bone & a rottie mix. At our local shelter rotties do not get adopted out. In his already critical state, i do not want to subject him to living there either. 

I will be calling my vet as soon as they open to get him an appointment. Until then any advice? I gave him my senior chihuahuas food. It's canned senior dog food. He ate 1/2 of it, drank some water. Now is laying on the bed we made him. He's in my room currently. Super sweet, sad dog.


----------



## Southern by choice

Part of the condition could just be to age. Many dogs lose all their muscling and get thin with age. I also wonder if the dog may having "doggy Alzheimers" . Sadly many aged dogs do get this and disappear from their own property and wonder and keep wondering because they no longer know how to get home.
I think it is a good idea to get a vet appointment but maybe also put flyers out in case someone is missing this sweet old dog.
Happens more than people think, but the general assumption is it was a "dump".


----------



## lalabugs

I should have added that to the post. I will be posting on our local FB groups. I will be taking him to the vet here shortly to check for a microchip first. If he has a chip we will be calling the owners, if not he will be getting evaluated. Also will be informing the shelter that we found him with our contact information if owners come looking for him.


----------



## BoboFarm

If he is in fact old, it's hard to tell from the pictures, he could very well have cancer. Sadly, that's what rotties die from, most often bone cancer. In regards to feeding him, take it extremely slow. You should feed small meals four or more times a day rather than feeding one to two large meals. His body needs to recover from being starved if that's what happened. Again, it's hard to tell from the pictures but I don't see a lot of graying on his muzzle. He has very sad eyes. That breaks my heart  Please keep us updated on him.


----------



## Southern by choice

BoboFarm said:


> If he is in fact old, it's hard to tell from the pictures, he could very well have cancer. Sadly, that's what rotties die from, most often bone cancer. In regards to feeding him, take it extremely slow. You should feed small meals four or more times a day rather than feeding one to two large meals. His body needs to recover from being starved if that's what happened. Again, it's hard to tell from the pictures but I don't see a lot of graying on his muzzle. He has very sad eyes. That breaks my heart  Please keep us updated on him.


My dog looked like this at 16yrs. she hardly had any greying at all. Just old. You are very right about the cancer.


----------



## BoboFarm

I'm being flooded with memories from Teah, who we lost a year and a half ago  She started graying at about 5yrs. Anja and Jake, littermates from Teah's first litter, have no gray and they're 7yrs old.

I think what I was trying to say was not to assume he's old. Condition needs to be taken into consideration too. The vet should be able to determine approximate age based on his teeth.


----------



## Southern by choice

BoboFarm said:


> I'm being flooded with memories from Teah, who we lost a year and a half ago  She started graying at about 5yrs. Anja and Jake, littermates from Teah's first litter, have no gray and they're 7yrs old.
> 
> I think what I was trying to say was not to assume he's old. Condition needs to be taken into consideration too. The vet should be able to determine approximate age based on his teeth.



Yeah, I try not to just assume animals are dumped or neglected. Working in the canine industry for so long showed me so much.   I love "old" dogs. In the future that is what I will probably do, take in the aged ones so they can just live their live so out peacefully.  I really want to do some work with a foundation that takes in dogs for our servicemen and women that have to be out of the country for a tour, and basically you care for them til the owner/s can come back stateside. I love it! 

Sorry  lalabugs- getting off topic again..


----------



## lalabugs

Just got back from the vets. He does not have a microchip. Vet could not give me an approx age. She just said that he is really old. He's missing teeth, some teeth are broken and he has heavy calcium on the teeth he still has. They suggest how to refeed him. Giving him 4 small meals a day with a 50/50 mix of soft food & hard food. After 1 to  1 1/2 weeks of feeding him, if he does not improve at all or gets worse they will see him. They did look him over and gave me advice which I greatly appreciated.

Once I get done with my kids school work I will be heading to the feed store to get him some senior dog food.

The reason I say he was a dump is because my property is fully fenced. He was in my yard this morning. He can barely walk. Not possible for him to jump my fence.

I have informed the shelter about finding him. I posted him on the fb groups. If someone is looking for him we will find them.


----------



## BoboFarm

Thanks for taking this guy in 

I doubt anyone will be looking for him  I hope he recovers enough to enjoy what time he has left.


----------



## babsbag

Poor boy, people are so cruel, it is good that he found a soft heart to land on.  You are a kind soul. I also am thinking that my next dog will be an older one that just needs a home for their last days. I just need them to bark when there are intruders and sound vicious. And they need to like cats.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Bless you for taking care of him.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Poor boy! I was going to make several recommendations but since you’ve been to the vet as I read further, I’ll stick to something else that might come up. 

1) He needs wormed. He doesn’t stand a chance at recovering if he’s full of worms. (Belly doesn’t have to look big to be full of worms.) The vet may have done this while there or sent it with you. Just didn’t want it to get missed. 

2) Food may lead to diarrhea...watch closely as he will loose precious nutrients and fluids if this starts. Cottage cheese, rice, and plain yogurt can all be used to help prevent and/or treat this. (Obviously in small amounts of using to prevent but can be switched to almost total combo of afore mentioned if diarrhea gets bad.) 

Best of luck! Blessings will rain down on you for caring for him!


----------



## lalabugs

The vet did not worm him or anything. No weight, no meds. She just checked him over. Since he's "not my property" and a chance for the owners to come forward the vets will not see him yet. 

If he gets worse they will see him. Here after 2 weeks of taking care of him and actively looking for the owners. The dog becomes your property. At the 1 1/2 week mark we can bring him back in to be checked. Since it's closer to the time frame that he will be "my property". 

I will worm him. He did get diarrhea from the canned food this morning. The vet did warn me about that. That was one of the reasons she suggested to mix wet with dry and she said depending on what he has been eating, even that can give him diarrhea. I drove to the city and got him senior dry dog food and more senior wet food. He has not urinated yet though. He is drinking and eating. He has a doggie bed we just bought him on my side of the bed. He loves it. 

I will keep everyone updated on how he is doing. Thank you everyone for all the advice. I greatly appreciate it.


----------



## Hens and Roos

that he improves for you.


----------



## MiniSilkys

Wehner Homestead said:


> 2) Food may lead to diarrhea...watch closely as he will loose precious nutrients and fluids if this starts. Cottage cheese, rice, and plain yogurt can all be used to help prevent and/or treat this. (Obviously in small amounts of using to prevent but can be switched to almost total combo of afore mentioned if diarrhea gets bad.)


Don't forget canned or fresh mashed pumpkin. It is great with sensitive stomachs. I used it with my dog when he was a 4week old puppy. I also still use it with him as he likes to raid the garbage or scrap bowls looking for chicken or bones. Just one bite of bone tears his belly up.


----------



## MiniSilkys

I love people with tender hearts towards animals. You can really tell a lot about people that way. to you for caring enough to take an old throwaway and giving him another chance. You did not have to do it and I believe God will shine down on you for it. These are his creations and it is up to us to keep them from undeserved harm and suffering.


----------



## lalabugs

No one has come forward to say he is theirs. He is eating & drinking. He is starting to move on his own. We're not having to carry him outside to go to the bathroom as much. His diarrhea has started to clear up. 

I have been keeping a daily log of food & water intake, out put & his weight. I'll be taking it with me to the vet. 
His starting weight was 51 lbs. 

We have been trying to find a name for him that he responds to. Right now he does not respond to much. Maybe hearing issues. I will have that checked. 

Thank you everyone for the kind words. He will get to live his days out with us. 

I am the person who adopts the old guys. My chi was 9 y/o at the shelter when I adopted her. That was 6 years ago. She is still going strong at 15. 

To everyone who said they'd like an old dog when they look for another dog. Please do. The old guys do not get adopted. The only old dogs I seen leave the shelter were rescue pulls. That was because they were purebred. 

I will keep everyone updated on him.


----------



## lalabugs

He is improving drastically. He is walking on his own, up and down our stairs with no issue. He's gaining great. I am still slowly upping his food until he's where he should be. I weighed him yesterday, he's up to 57 lbs.

He is so sweet and seems to be fully house trained. I have not crated him. He at first would not let us know when he needed to go out. He would start panting really hard. Now he lets us know when he's got to go out. He gets up and stares at us until we let him outside. If i'm not on time for him in the am, he will lick my hand until I wake up. He is such a sweet dog.


Chick question. DH loves Wyandottes, I ordered him some blues and some st. run mix wyandottes. One i'm not sure what it is. Anyone have any experience with this breed? Guesses?


----------



## Wehner Homestead

lalabugs said:


> He is improving drastically. He is walking on his own, up and down our stairs with no issue. He's gaining great. I am still slowly upping his food until he's where he should be. I weighed him yesterday, he's up to 57 lbs.
> 
> He is so sweet and seems to be fully house trained. I have not crated him. He at first would not let us know when he needed to go out. He would start panting really hard. Now he lets us know when he's got to go out. He gets up and stares at us until we let him outside. If i'm not on time for him in the am, he will lick my hand until I wake up. He is such a sweet dog.
> 
> 
> Chick question. DH loves Wyandottes, I ordered him some blues and some st. run mix wyandottes. One i'm not sure what it is. Anyone have any experience with this breed? Guesses?View attachment 45335 View attachment 45336




Yay for improvement!! Does he have a name yet? 

Looks like a Gold Laced Wyandotte to me. I actually got 2 in my last group. 
(L is an Ameracauna but R is a GLW.)


----------



## MiniSilkys

Glad to hear he is doing better. As for the chick, it looks like a golden laced. Looks similar to mine when she was a chick.


----------



## MiniSilkys

Well I did not see Wehner homesteads post until after I posted.


----------



## lalabugs

We're calling him Kairos, after the ancient greek meaning.

We really like the Wyandotte breed. I have a couple EE, RIR & Welsummers. They're my "old girls" They're around 5. Still laying. This year we're focusing on the Wyandotte. Hoping that spring break will be nice weather to get out and start building up the other chicken coops.


----------



## MiniSilkys

I have had around 30 different breeds of chicks. I love the light brahma.


----------



## lalabugs

What is a normal range for a 50/50 mini mancha doe?
We waited until Marshmallow was over 80 lbs to breed.

We have a FF doe who is only 62 lbs. We purchased her not to long ago. She is 50/50. Same breeder as Pumpkin.

Blondie is 12 weeks today, She weighs 30.8 lbs. Blondie is a F1 75 Nigerian, 25 Lamancha.

Jude is 8 weeks, he weighs 28.5 lbs. 50/50.

Also does anyone have any weights on pure LaMancha doe kid weights? 

Have two does who are either 75 LaMancha 25 Nigerian or pure LaMancha. The dam was ran with a pure lamancha buck and a 50/50 mini mancha buck. 

We sold all of our Nigerians. Besides Jasper, he will always stay. I love the mini manchas.


----------



## lalabugs

Marshmallow
Could not get a good pic of her. If I have anything in my hands it must be for her. 



 Blondie 
She is such a ham. 



 Almond Joy the doe that weighs 62 lbs. 



 
Jude 
The two does that are either full lamancha or 75 lamancha 25 nigerian are behind Jude.


----------



## Southern by choice

lalabugs said:


> What is a normal range for a 50/50 mini mancha doe?
> We waited until Marshmallow was over 80 lbs to breed.
> 
> We have a FF doe who is only 62 lbs. We purchased her not to long ago. She is 50/50. Same breeder as Pumpkin.
> 
> Blondie is 12 weeks today, She weighs 30.8 lbs. Blondie is a F1 75 Nigerian, 25 Lamancha.
> 
> Jude is 8 weeks, he weighs 28.5 lbs. 50/50.
> 
> Also does anyone have any weights on pure LaMancha doe kid weights?
> 
> Have two does who are either 75 LaMancha 25 Nigerian or pure LaMancha. The dam was ran with a pure lamancha buck and a 50/50 mini mancha buck.
> 
> We sold all of our Nigerians. Besides Jasper, he will always stay. I love the mini manchas.



It really varies. We will breed a 50/50 for FF if she is 60 lbs. 
Some 50/50's will be more lean and long where a litter mate sister may be more Nigerian looking... but as they grow and mature the more Nigie type will get their length etc.
For us we look at body capacity and hip width if we are breeding young.

As far as weight- again it could be all over the map.  
Mini's really change alot over the first 2-3 years.

every 6 months they look different.  

They are all very healthy looking and pretty too!

Are you going to register them?


----------



## lalabugs

I can not register any of them. Marshmallows sire was registered, dam was not. Blondies sire is registered, but marshmallow is not.
Almond Joy comes from registered stock, but none of the minis were registered. Same with Jude. 

The other does the dam is registered, however both bucks she had running with her does were not registered. Though both bucks came from registered stock. Not sure besides doing DNA to figure out who the sire is. Not sure it would be worth it since both bucks are not registered? 

I am happy to hear that 60 is still a good weight. I was worried about her weight. Was contemplating drying Almond Joy off earlier to let her catch up on weight. 



 This is a pic of Almond Joys udder. This was a 12 hour fill. I snapped it really fast before I milked her. Not the greatest pic.


----------



## Southern by choice

Most of your goats can be registered as grade. At least is gives you and future clients a place to be able to do something more if you choose.
I have a whole line of Grade Mini Lamanchas. That line is Trouble's line. No way I won't continue that line just because they are grade.
Trouble's dam is an NOA Lamancha ND sire is registered... because the NOA doe Trouble is a grade.
One of our grade does (out of same dam different sire) just had trips- 3rd kidding... My friend doesn't weigh her milk and doesn't get into all that she has a homestead and needs milk (she owns this other grade 1/2 sister to our Trouble) She kidded and pulled kids so she wanted to make sure to get production moving along... so for the first few days she milked 4x a day.
When talking to her I asked her to repeat what she had just said and I repeated it back to clarify...
Here are her milkings in 24 hour period (by volume)
1st- 6 cups
2nd- 6 cups
3rd- 6 cups
4th 5 cups
48+48+48+40=  184 oz =  1.4 gallons  
She said she thought she was giving plenty of milk and wanted to know if she could go down to 3x a day! 

That is the miliie/Trouble line!  

As far as weight that is fine.... Trouble was 60 lbs when she was bred the first time as almost all our minis are at first breedings... they grow, some slower some faster.
I'll see if I can find some pics of the progression over time. She is 110-115 average now.. as a mature doe. 
Almond Joy is very beautiful! Beautiful udder and teats!  

Pm me and I can talk to you about how to register her.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Making a note of these weights for future reference when I have Minis from my girls!


----------



## lalabugs

I did not realize you could register minis as NOA. 

That's an awesome amount of milk! Right now between Marshmallow & Almond we're getting almost a gallon each milking. Both FF. Marshmallow at her peak was giving us 7 lbs of milk being milked 2x a day. It's dropped down some. Haven not weighed it in a little while. 

I would love to see progression pictures of your minis. 

Thank you. I am really pleased with Almond Joys udder. Pumpkins udder was exactly like Almonds. We sold Pumpkin, keeping Jude. We're hoping the cross with Marshmallow will give her offspring a better rear attachment and teat placement. Pumpkin was also a SF not a FF as we were first told. Pumpkins udder when we first purchased her was her drying up from last years kids. The breeder has so many she's lost track of who is who. The udders though! I am really excited to see what Almond Joys udder is as a SF.


----------



## lalabugs

Can someone please explain this LA score? The score is from my bucks dam. She scored +V+E 87 as a 2 y/o SF.


----------



## Southern by choice

If you go to adga.org  you will see a bar that says performance programs. Scroll down where it says Linear Appraisal. there will be a bar come up beside it click on  Linear "Blue Book"
This will give you a lot of information


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you.Will be reading up on it. This is his dams udder.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

lalabugs said:


> Thank you.Will be reading up on it. This is his dams udder.
> View attachment 51493


Beautiful udder!


----------



## Southern by choice

lalabugs said:


> Can someone please explain this LA score? The score is from my bucks dam. She scored +V+E 87 as a 2 y/o SF.



What is her name? We can look it up on adga pedigrees and look at her score- if it is published yet. If she was scored as a FF you can see where she improved with age.


----------



## lalabugs

Her name is Moore's Pride Havanna Vanna. I did not find any on ADGA. The breeder just posted the results last month from her LA. 
I really liked her udder. If I am reading the results right she got E in mammary. 
Here is her side view. Pic from breeder.


----------



## Southern by choice

Yes, E in mammary.  And that fore udder is beautiful and rear udder! Well... the whole udder- I guess that is why E in mammary.  
Is she a recorded grade?


----------



## Donna R. Raybon

She is American.  Several generations back on dam side Nubian buck jumped the fence
Iron Owl and Kastdemur good names.

Excellent udder indeed!


----------



## lalabugs

She is American. Here is my bucks full pedigree.


----------



## Donna R. Raybon

General appearance, dairy character, body capacity, and mammary system.  GA, DC,BC, M

I do not put much into dairy character as a doe carrying weight scores lower in my experience.  I see reasons for + in GA with need to improve top line and rump angle.  Remember they do not appraise posed, but on the move.  This is a doe that is a keeper and bred to a consistent GA buck to improve top line, great kids.   If your does need GA improvement though her son's might not be the one for you on that score.  But, with her udder??  I would be willing to give it a try!!!


----------



## lalabugs

Here are some pics I took today. 

Marshmallow will be 2 y/o next month. She will always stay with us. 50/50 mini macha F1. Currently producing 9C being milked 2x a day as a FF 213 DIM.  




Almond Joy 1 y/o F5 Mini Mancha. Pardon the trash behind her, my neighbors property. They destroyed a travel trailer, have yet to clean it up. 




This is Lotte. We believe she is a mini mancha. Her dam is a registered lamancha, but not sure on the sire. About 7-8 months old. Current weight is 80lb. 




Tiana full sister to Lotte. Current weight 75lbs.


----------



## lalabugs

I purchased him to improve udder.  Almond had a nice udder as a ff. Marshmallow needs improvement.


----------



## Southern by choice

Those weights suggest full lamancha. Very unusual for a mini  (50/50) to be that heavy at 7-8 months. If they are high percentage they could be. You should DNA them and find out who the sire is. 
Bingo did grow fast and was heavy so there is that but as adults ours are generally 110 lbs (2-5 year olds)

Your goats are so pretty!


----------



## lalabugs

I will talk to the breeder to see if I can get a hair sample from her buck. She does not have the pb unregistered buck anymore only her mini mancha buck. 

If they're mini mancha they would be 75L 25ND. Pb dam 50/50 mini mancha buck. 

Thank you! We love them. 

We do have 1 ND doe. DH had to have her. I've been trying to get her papers corrected. The breeder registered/transferred her into my name. However her DOB, sire & dam are all wrong!  I have contacted the breeder. Who informed me they would correct it. I contacted ADGA. ADGA informed me the breeder can not just fix it. She has to write a statement saying what errors she made and how they need to be fixed. Sign it. I need to send that statement and her papers to adga to correct it. 
Still np statement from the breeder. Do not want to breed her if I can't register her kids with the correct pedigree.


----------



## Southern by choice

lalabugs said:


> I will talk to the breeder to see if I can get a hair sample from her buck. She does not have the pb unregistered buck anymore only her mini mancha buck.
> 
> If they're mini mancha they would be 75L 25ND. Pb dam 50/50 mini mancha buck.
> 
> Thank you! We love them.
> 
> We do have 1 ND doe. DH had to have her. I've been trying to get her papers corrected. The breeder registered/transferred her into my name. However her DOB, sire & dam are all wrong!  I have contacted the breeder. Who informed me they would correct it. I contacted ADGA. ADGA informed me the breeder can not just fix it. She has to write a statement saying what errors she made and how they need to be fixed. Sign it. I need to send that statement and her papers to adga to correct it.
> Still np statement from the breeder. Do not want to breed her if I can't register her kids with the correct pedigree.



If you joined the MDGA then you may use their member services and the DNA for parentage is discounted. You will need hair from the kid and possible parent.


----------



## lalabugs

I am currently not a MDGA member, but can be. Thank you for the information.  Waiting to hear back from the breeder.


----------



## Donna R. Raybon

Is ND breeder ADGA member ???
I would call one more time and explain to breeder what you want done with a timeline... Say ' in 14 days I am calling ADGA office to see if you have mailed the explanation necessary to correct paperwork'  then do that.  If you call and no paperwork at the office???  I would sit down, write a letter of complaint to ADGA that breeder defrauded.  Are you an ADGA member?


----------



## Donna R. Raybon

And, it might be a good idea to ask ADGA to have breeder DNA parents and you DNA kid to ensure what you have on paper is truth!!!


----------



## lalabugs

Yes ND breeder is ADGA member. I am ADGA member as well. The breeder would have to send the statement to me. I would have to send in the statement and the does papers in together to ADGA for them to correct the issues. I am contacting breeder again today to give her one last chance to send me the statement I need. Then will be contacting ADGA further to see what can be done. Requesting DNA is not a bad idea. 

My oldest DD decided that she would like to show this year. I am casually looking for an ADGA LaMancha doeling for her. My youngest DD has wanted to show. We had planned on starting next year with the ND doe for DD2, but my oldest DD is almost 6' not sure how well that would be for her to show ND? 

We have contacted a local breeder to get more in depth information on showing. Almost all does I have found locally are closely related to our buck.


----------



## Southern by choice

We have some clients that just bought 3 of our lamancha does because their young children cannot handle to ND's.  The lamanchas... easy they love working with them.
Another client - same thing.  
I think the ND's are just really hard for young children, I can say here, Littlest DD hates showing the Nigies. She loves the goats but doesn't like showing them because they are so terrible. 
...and she is a teenager!

Working with both breeds... they are both fun but the ND's can be really frustrating - generally it's the juniors that seem to be difficult.  I think next to the Nigies, the Nubian babies are the next hardest.   Love them all though.


----------



## lalabugs

The ND would be to much then? We have not looked that much into showing yet. We will be going out to the breeders house next week to talk to her. She will show and explain as much as she can while we're out there. 

We just thought because the size of the ND that it would be better for DD2, who is 7. DD1 is 15 and almost 6'.


----------



## Southern by choice

Well, the people we are working with have children 5-10 and all are showing Lamanchas. They all have ND's but the kids don't like working with them. No matter how much they work with them they are still so much harder. LOL You can rarely get people to help you at shows lend a hand for Nigerians. Any other breed... no problem.  
Sure many kids show ND's. Just having Standards,Minis, and ND's.... the Standards by far are easiest.

If you have an opportunity to go and help out with a show (with the children) that may help. 
Let the children handle the goats and see. 

So far when we teach the basic showing your goat class to children... after 5 minutes... no one wants the Nigerians. :/ And these goats are trained already. LOL
You may end up with a completely different experience, I think there is just an idea that lil goats are easier for lil kids and that is far from the truth. 
Showing both would be fun.


----------



## lalabugs

Good to know before hand. The breeder we are going to talk to does not show anymore but she use to show her lamanchas and Nigerians with her daughters. Thought it would be a good starting point to learn about showing. 

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I think we'll practice on the does we have now. See how the girls feel about each goat. Before purchasing new does. I still have a lot of research to do.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

What goats do you have now? 

You can show recorded grades


----------



## lalabugs

I have marshmallow unregistered mini mancha, Almond unregistered mini mancha, Tiana, Lotte, & Nilla. Tiana and Lotte are the possible pb lamanchas or 75/25 mini manchas. Waiting for breeder to have time for me to come by and collect hairs to run DNA on them. 

If DNA comes back that the mini mancha buck is not the sire to them would i need the breeder to register them or can I register them?

Nilla is the registered ND with the messed up papers I'm trying to get corrected.


----------



## Southern by choice

If they have no nigerian in them (and yes I would DNA them) then you can register them- if their dam and sire is registered then the breeder can give you application. If not then you can do NOA.
Native on Appearance is shown under recorded grades.
You will want to DNA because of the herdbook. Nothing crossed with ND can be registered under the ADGA. The mini registries have rules about NOA's. If nigerian is in them then you would want to look at the MDGA.


----------



## lalabugs

The dam is registered. Once the DNA is done, i'll have to see what route I need to take. Just waiting now. 

I was reading up on showing last night. The show season ends in Sept for ADGA?


----------



## Southern by choice

not here, our state fair is late oct


----------



## Southern by choice

There is a show here Oct 7th I think and then the state fair...  Several in Sept.


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## lalabugs

Our State fair is in July and our county fair is in Sept.


----------



## lalabugs

I have been in contact with a lamancha breeder for a doeling out of her 2019 kidding. 

I wrote her explaining what we're looking for. My daughter wants a lamancha doe that is not white. Explained the doeling will be my daughters show goat. It will be my daughters choice on the doeling. I want her to choose her project and be happy with the pick. 

The breeder said she'd be happy to send us pics of doelings when they're born. 

Then she went on to explain they no longer show because Mycoplasma has been sweeping through shows and has wiped out entire herds! 

Has anyone else heard about Mycoplasma going through shows? 

The breeder is in CA. 

Our local 4H does not allow milk goat projects only meat goats. My daughter asked to show next year and we are working on this. However I do not want to expose any of our goats to Mycoplasma.


----------



## lalabugs

My oldest DD took this pic today. The pic is of DD and Lotte.


----------



## lalabugs

Oldest DD picked a PB LaMancha doe yesterday. We brought her home. We have not met up with the breeder who was going to show my DD's what they need for showing. She had business take her back east. The breeder we purchased from yesterday said youtube videos will be beyond helpful. 
DD will be showing against this breeder next year. They said their one doe has won Gand Champion two years in a row. The dam to the doe we purchased was CH the last two years. 


Oldest DD and I have been watching youtube videos. We have a lot of time to learn and prepare for showing next year. The doe is only 6 1/2 months old right now. We have not weighed her yet. We got home really late. She's a nice doe. Will get pictures later after all school work is done. 

Right now DD is working on building a relationship with the doe and training her to walk using a collar. Any advice from anyone? Including breeding her. I know a lot of people say 8 months & 80lbs. Is that what everyone goes by?


----------



## lalabugs

Her current weight is 75lbs. She turns 7 months on the 23rd.


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## Wehner Homestead

Let @Southern by choice or @Goat Whisperer weigh in when they have power again as they also show their Lamanchas.


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## lalabugs

I'm in no rush. I pray they get power restored ASAP. Lots of damage from the hurricane. 

Pics I took today. The doe was NOT thrilled about being walked. These were the best pics we could get. In all the pics the doe is not set up. How she is standing is how she stopped. She was not worked with before we purchased her. 



 

 



Youngest DD seen oldest DD working with her doe. She wanted to be a part of it. This is the ND doe we are trying to get the papers corrected on. We are hoping the papers will be corrected. The breeder said she sent the information to ADGA. She also emailed me the information. Which I sent to ADGA along with the papers. We will see what happens.


----------



## Southern by choice

Personally I think looking at hip width and general growth curve is best. We do not do the weight/age rule.
Our lines are not particularly  great at breeding in the first season. Knowing your lines and what your buck throws size wise is important.
Our girls tend to pour into the growing kids and not grow as well. I also felt it was much harder on them to kid and go on the milk line at 13 months old.
I may breed some for minis but I won't breed for standards on my babes this year. We bred 2 last year in first season and it has been hard on them. 
We do have old style lamanchas though- not the miniature cow version of lamanchas that seems popular right now.  

Pretty doe, is she an American?

Nigie is nice! She looks like she has a good front end and really nice rear pin/hock.


----------



## lalabugs

She is PB. I sent her papers in on Friday. This is her pedigree. 



 

I sent the breeder a text asking her if she usually breeds in the first year or waits until they are older. Our buck has no kids on the ground. I do not know what he throws. He's only 6 months old. 

The ND is 8 months old and 48 lbs. To me she just looks to small to breed. Maybe that's because she is in with Almond who is a mini mancha.  Her breeder said she is big enough to breed. I only have the experience with Rose being bred to soon and her having quads and not enough milk. That was a nightmare. Right now we have no plans to breed her until she is 1 1/2.

The ND pedigree. 


 -


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## lalabugs

The breeder got back to me. She said she waits until they are 1 1/2 to breed. The doeling we have was a triplet. We will wait until next year to breed. 


The first two pics is the dam of the sire for Nova. Sires dam is the GCH that has not lost in the last two years. 
The last pic is of Novas dam. Her udder is not full in the pic.


----------



## lalabugs

Breeding for 2019

Marshmallow is bred for 25L 75N Due Christmas
Almond is Bred for 75L 25N Due Jan 8th

We are excited to have babies. I am really excited for Almonds breeding. DH is excited for Marshmallow.
Almond is already looking WIDE. She has not had grain since we dried her off earlier this year. She is only getting hay and minerals.


----------



## lalabugs

Almond is acting off. She is eating, just not a lot. She is being very slow about eating and is just slow. Slow eating, slow moving, laying around a lot more than normal.

I checked temp, she is normal. Checked ketones showed trace amount. She is not due until 1/8/19. 11 weeks until she is due. 

I have been researching ketosis. Thinking maybe she is starting to show signs. Everything I am finding says it happens in the last 6 weeks and could happen after labor. Has anyone had it happen this early? 

She has alfalfa 24/7 and minerals. I did give her 1/2 C of grain last night and this am to see if it helped at all. She was moving around a bit more this morning. Just not her usual energetic self.


----------



## StarSpangledNubians

I can't offer much help, but I hope she will be okay.


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you.
 I think the grain helped.  She is back to being her normal self.  I'll be keeping an eye on her just in case.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

@Southern by choice and @Goat Whisperer have had a goat have ketosis. Check out their thread and they may chime in. You should also touch base with your vet. Never hurts to have a discussion and make sure you have an action plan with necessary supplies in place so you can act quickly. Please keep us posted!


----------



## lalabugs

Almond is back to being her normal self. She's not being slow anymore and back to eating. Her ketones never got high. Only at trace amount. I will continue checking her ketones. If it happens again we will be taking her down to the vet.


----------



## lalabugs

I got the ND papers corrected. YAY! Not sure when we will breed her. She just seems small to me. Her last weight was 48lbs and she's 8 months old. Turning 9 months 11/10/18. The current plan is to wait until she's 1 1/2 to breed her.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Glad your doe is doing better! The ND is not small by any means.


----------



## lalabugs

Would you breed her at that weight?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

lalabugs said:


> Would you breed her at that weight?


I tend to look at width along with the weight of the goat. How is her rump width? 
You would probably be fine to breed her at 1 year of age.


----------



## lalabugs

Best pics I could get of her.


----------



## lalabugs

We are now waiting for the bred does. I start taking pics at 8 weeks due, to keep a record of any changes during pregnancy. 
Marshmallow has 5 weeks 4 days left. Almond has 8 weeks. Really hoping for twins from both of them. 
Nilla the ND is now 9 months old, weight 52.8 lbs.


----------



## lalabugs

Marshmallow is HUGE! Seeing her everyday I did not realize how big she has gotten since last week. Until I compared the pics. She has 5 weeks left.


----------



## StarSpangledNubians

Chunky girl! I'm going to guess she will have triplets this year. 2 bucks and a doe.


----------



## lalabugs

She is rather round. My family always does the guessing game. No one has been right in our house yet. My children are guessing quads for Marshmallow and triplets for Almond. I am super excited for Almonds kidding. She might have triplets. 

Marshmallow has 4 weeks 1 day. Almond has 6 weeks 4 days.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

We on it, praying for them


----------



## lalabugs

A friend of mine has offered me her herd. But I do not have enough land for them. My sister said she would take a few. But still there's at least 30+ goats she wants to re home. All are either lamancha or Mini lamanchas. All males are bucks. Will not sell/give away to anyone who will eat them. Only pet home or breeding/milking homes. It's a huge task. All does are more than likely bred.


----------



## lalabugs

Marshmallow has dropped. She has 21 days left. Getting close. 


 

Almond has 5 weeks 3 days left.


----------



## lalabugs

We are finally getting a good rain! We really need it. 
Marshmallow has 16 days! Ahh!!! We are so excited! I am more excited to see how much she produces as a 2F. She gave us 1/2 gallon as a FF. DD2 is beyond ready for baby goats. I still need to set up the webcam to keep an eye on her once shes a couple days away from kidding. Usually have it set up by now.


----------



## Southern by choice

So exciting! 

30+ goats to take on suddenly is a lot!  Perhaps you could select a  handful of does and 1-2 bucks that would be beneficial for your program.


----------



## Hens and Roos

wow...that is a lot of goats, hope you can come up with a solution that helps everyone out!

Good luck for you up coming kidding season!


----------



## lalabugs

I have no clue what is happening with the goats now. 

Had not seen the friend in awhile. Went out to her place to see her. As we were looking at the goats, she tells me she will give me all of them. Out of the blue. I told her I did not have the room to take all of them on but my sister has room and I can try to help her figure it all out. She said she was serious about reducing numbers and wanted good homes for them. She was beyond thankful that I'd take some and find homes for the rest that she wanted to find homes for. 
We brought one buck home with us, he is out of one of her does that I love. But she will not sell that doe or her doe babies. I have offered multiple times that if she ever wanted to sell her or her doe babies to let me know.  

I found a few different homes for some of the goats, as I can not take on all of them. Good homes where they would be well taken care of. Once I had it all figured out. The friend changed her mind. Saying she's going to try to sell them now. The whole situation has me baffled. I do not know what is going on with the buck either. I wrote her asking if I am bringing him back. No response. 


She has to many goats. They are breeding uncontrollably. She can not keep up with what goat was born from what goat. All of her goats have lost condition. I was shocked to see them in the condition they are in. The buck we brought home was born May or June this year. The doe had just freshened in December. The doe has all 4 babies on her. She has her 2 does from Dec on her and her two bucklings from may-june. (One less buckling now that I took him home.) She is SKINNY! I offered to purchase that doe. She declined.  All her does are freshening 2x a year. Maybe a handful that are not in horrible condition. I will be shocked if the skinny does freshen again, they have nothing left to put into making babies. 

Even asking someone to take the goats, is asking them to take on a lot of baggage. They need to be wormed. Eye lids are white, they are covered in lice and they are THIN. All things I have pointed out and offered to help her take care of. 

At this point I do not know how to help the situation.


----------



## promiseacres

sounds like she knows she's in too deep but hasn't completely committed to doing what needs to be done. I think animal hoarding is a type of addiction. The addict has to want to get "well"


----------



## lalabugs

Animal hoarding is an addiction. I agree 100%. It's a really hard situation. No matter how much I offer to help, the situation stays the same.


----------



## lalabugs

Marshmallow is so big! She is starting to have plug loss. Small amounts. Had to take this pic while feeding. DH is now guessing quads.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

baby goats!!!


----------



## lalabugs

Marshmallow this morning. 14 days to go. 




Almond has 4 weeks 3 days. She is just starting to slowly get an udder. She's getting much rounder.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Darn, between Marshmellow and Baymule s Miranda Lambert....something  has to pop and drop hoofs soon...


----------



## lalabugs

Marshmallow still has 11 days. That is day 145. Last year she kidded on day 148. She only had a single last year. Pretty sure that is not the case this year. She has more goo today. She has been standing on her tire a lot lately. Keeping her front end higher than the back. 

Today is 4 weeks for Almond. I am really hoping she has at least twins. She does not look that large. She had a single last year as well. 

We are anxiously waiting.


----------



## StarSpangledNubians

I kinda want to change my guess to quads now, but I'll stick with my original guess. My gut is telling me 3 does, but my gut is normally wrong. My brain is telling me to go with 2 buck and a doe because that's normally how it works out

Getting exciting These last days always seem to be the longest!


----------



## lalabugs

I would love 3 does! The days really do seem LOOOONNNGGG! DD1 keeps running inside telling me she has more goo, like she's in labor. She's not, the goo has her so excited she can not wait 10 days. 

Marshmallow just seems to get bigger! I did not think she could be any bigger! 

Almond is not that big. 3 weeks 6 days now for Almond. She got her CDT shot yesterday. I got to feel a baby roll yesterday! I tried showing DD1 where they were moving but she did not get to feel anything. I am beyond excited for Almonds babies. I really hope she has does. This was Almond yesterday.


----------



## Southern by choice

So exciting! Can't wait to see the kids!


----------



## Wehner Homestead




----------



## B&B Happy goats

Can't  wait to see how many marshmellow has...she sure is preggo........ I have a love / hate relationship when my goats get to the last weeks.....i hate the waiting day by day, hour by hour....but ohhhh how i love thoes baby kids  hope all your deliveries  are easy and you have lots of healthy kids.


----------



## lalabugs

Thank you. Hoping no kidding issues.  First two years of kidding i stressed so much.  I feel relaxed this time. 

Marshmallow is now grunting while she sleeps. It is loud!!! We put a tire in her birthing pen for her to stand on. It has now become her pillow. Pic is blurry i had to zoom in.


----------



## Wehner Homestead




----------



## lalabugs

7 days for Marshmallow! We're not excited at all. 
Will get pics of her after we shave her. DD2 is now requesting every night that we wake her up if Marshmallow goes into labor. Webcam is up. Birthing kit was refilled. We are beyond ready.


----------



## StarSpangledNubians

How is she doing?  The last 5-10 days for me are always fun. If she were mine I would be watching birthing videos, rereading positions, reading waiting threads, checking the time, wanting to go to sleep but you lay there and think what if you missed a sign! So you get out of bed, check the camera, think maybe you just can't see that her udder has grown. Get a coat on, go outside, everyone begs for treats and nothing has changed. Then you swear you just saw her have a contraction or she has goo, her ligs are almost gone, etc. You stay and watch her for the next half hour. She laughs, you go back to bed, set an alarm and repeat for the next 3-10days. Well, that's how it is here anyway. Lol. Can't wait to see how many and what she has. I need baby goat pics to get me through the next 40 days!


----------



## lalabugs

StarSpangledNubians said:


> How is she doing?  The last 5-10 days for me are always fun. If she were mine I would be watching birthing videos, rereading positions, reading waiting threads, checking the time, wanting to go to sleep but you lay there and think what if you missed a sign! So you get out of bed, check the camera, think maybe you just can't see that her udder has grown. Get a coat on, go outside, everyone begs for treats and nothing has changed. Then you swear you just saw her have a contraction or she has goo, her ligs are almost gone, etc. You stay and watch her for the next half hour. She laughs, you go back to bed, set an alarm and repeat for the next 3-10days. Well, that's how it is here anyway. Lol. Can't wait to see how many and what she has. I need baby goat pics to get me through the next 40 days!


Lol I love your post. The last two kiddings this is what happened. Haha. 
This year I have a better router. I can stream the webcam that I have set up in her pen to the t.v. in my bedroom, or cell phone, or computer. 
No significant udder change, ligaments are not gone yet.


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## lalabugs

5 days! Marshmallows belly is low! No significant udder change. So close to kidding!


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## lalabugs

4 days for Marshmallow! Marshmallows udder has gotten a lot bigger! Picture on the right is from last night. The one on the left is this morning. Still not full but bigger. 


 So excited! 3 weeks today for Almond.


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## StarSpangledNubians

Yay! We are getting closer. Just a few more days


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## lalabugs

No udder change today. 3 days! It looked like she was having light contractions last night. Lots of stretching, yawning, adjusting how she was sleeping. We are all anxious.


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## lalabugs

No udder change today. 3 days! It looked like she was having light contractions last night. Lots of stretching, yawning, adjusting how she was sleeping. We are all anxious.


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## StarSpangledNubians

So close! I can't wait to see her kids!


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## Latestarter

Hope she goes soon for you.


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## lalabugs

Hoping Saturday during the day while it's nice out. We shall see. She has dropped, looks really hippy. No udder change. Picture of Marshmallow this morning.


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## Goat Whisperer

I can’t tell……… are you excited? LOL

I’m excited for you! Can’t wait to see what she has!


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## lalabugs

Not excited at all.  LOL!


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## StarSpangledNubians

How is she today?


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## lalabugs

Slight difference in her udder. 1 day until she is due! Keeping a close eye on her. Marshmallow this morning.


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## lalabugs

Today is Marshmallows due date. Udder is not full. DH is saying she will not kid until Christmas. I really hope he is wrong.

Tiana is now in a kidding pen. We had a ND buck who was an escape artist. Nothing kept him in. He cleared 6' fence with no issue. Giant PITA. I sold him in September. I have been keeping an eye on Tiana and Lotte since the buck escaped NON stop. Tiana went from a very small udder to shiny over night! Her sister Lotte still has a very small udder. I love Tianas udder.


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## StarSpangledNubians

Wow, that's a beautiful udder! Do you know how much she milks? Good luck! Can wait to see kids! Even if they aren't marshmallows!


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## lalabugs

I do not know what she milks. She is a FF. She is head pressing, pawing, looking at her side. Tiana is my favorite. She is such a sweet goat.


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## frustratedearthmother

Nice!  Sounds like she's getting ready!


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## StarSpangledNubians

Oh wow, really nice udder for a ff. She looks like she would have already freshened a couple of times! Exciting, she must be getting close!


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## lalabugs

She is having contractions and leaking. Hopefully soon.


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## Goat Whisperer

Aww, poor girl! Hopefully those kids will be here soon! Hoping for a smooth delivery!


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## StarSpangledNubians

Hope every thing goes nice and smooth with no problems!


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## StarSpangledNubians

Hope you are playing with some beautiful kids right now! Maybe you are even enjoying marshmallow babies!  I don't like suspense so I really, really hope when I wake up it's to some cute pictures of kids and everything went just fine with a textbook kidding.


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## lalabugs

Tiana progressed very slowly. At 10pm I checked on her she was doing small pushes but not hard, no bubble  I fell asleep around midnight. 
Woke up at 5am. She had the long amber rope hanging out. Watched her for a bit, she was pushing but exhausted. I lobbed up and checked. Baby was coming head first legs bent weird. Got both legs forward. Baby was big. She wasn't getting him out. I tried pulling but still struggling. Had DD1 pull while I pushed her skin up a little to help. That did the trick! Out the baby came. 6.8 lbs. 

 

 



We have a buck.


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## B&B Happy goats

Congratulations,  she looked like she was carring a bakers dozen kids ! Handsome buck he is for sure


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## lalabugs

The huge one is Marshmallow she's still pregnant. The one that just kidded is Tiana. Tiana was not big at all.


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## StarSpangledNubians

Good job on the assist, you and you daughter! You both did great. He is an adorable thing for sure!


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## lalabugs

He is adorable! DH keeps hinting lol.  Now for a cup of coffee.  

Marshmallows udder is still not full, ligaments still not gone.  She is holding out.


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## Southern by choice




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## Latestarter

Congrats!


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## lalabugs

Tiana has A LOT of edema in 1/2 of her udder. Her teat was so tight the little guy couldn't nurse. I milked her out some to relieve pressure. Her edema is on her stomach and in her leg. Only on the one side. The side that was leaking is not swollen at all. I milked her out, but not completely and massaged that side of her udder. Anything else I can do to help her?


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## Goat Whisperer

lalabugs said:


> Tiana has A LOT of edema in 1/2 of her udder. Her teat was so tight the little guy couldn't nurse. I milked her out some to relieve pressure. Her edema is on her stomach and in her leg. Only on the one side. The side that was leaking is not swollen at all. I milked her out, but not completely and massaged that side of her udder. Anything else I can do to help her?



I thought she would have a lot of edema. Not that uncommon, she was probably laying down and pushed the fluid to the other side. 

Look for some mint udder cream. I have used Dynamint and liked it. I’m gonna try a different product called Udder Comfort this year. I saw and ad for it in a livestock magazine, and then heard other dairy goat breeders really liked it. Hoping it’ll be a little thicker than the dynamint also. 

Congratulations on the buckling, he IS adorable! Good job on assisting. Can’t wait to see what Marshmallow gives!


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## lalabugs

I have deep blue & udder cream. Feed store here is closed today. I can go first thing in the am to see what they have. Would the deep blue work? 

Here is the ingredients in deep blue: Aqua, _Gaultheria procumbens_ (Wintergreen) Leaf Oil, _Cinnamomum camphora_ (Camphor) Bark Oil, Menthol, Cetearyl Alcohol, _Prunus amygdalus dulcis_ (Sweet Almond) Oil, Stearic Acid, Glyceryl Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, _Mentha piperita_ (Peppermint) Oil, _Eucalyptus globulus_ (Eucalyptus) Leaf Oil, Butylene Glycol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, _Cananga odorata_ (Ylang Ylang) Oil, _Capsicum frutescens_ Extract, _Chamomilla recutita_ (Blue Chamomile) Flower Oil , _Tanacetum annuum_ (Blue Tansy) Flower Oil, _Helichrysum italicum_ (Helichrysum) Flower Oil, Allantoin, _Gardenia florida_ Fruit Extract, _Osmanthus fragrans_ (Osmanthus) Flower Extract, _Aloe barbadensis_ Leaf Juice, _Chlorella vulgaris_ Extract, Retinyl Palmitate, Squalane, Ceteareth-20, Hydroxyethyl Acrylate/Sodium Acryloyldimethyl Taurate Copolymer, Dimethicone, Phenoxyethanol, Caprylyl Glycol, Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, Xanthan Gum, Ethylhexylglycerin, Hexylene Glycol, Polysorbate 60, Maltodextrin, Sodium PCA, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate

I can not wait for Marshmallow to kid! Keep checking on her. She is DH goat and usually only comes to him. She comes to everyone IF they have treats or if she thinks you have something that must be for her lol. She is being antisocial even with DH today.


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## lalabugs

Marshmallow is in labor! She was baby talking earlier. 
She put herself away in her kidding stall at 3 pm. Went to check on the buckling, seen her asleep in her kidding stall. Usually have to shake the grain bucket to get her in.


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## Goat Whisperer

I'm not sure on the lotion you posted. I would hate to tell you it's okay when I'm not 100% certain. What type of udder cream do you have?


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## lalabugs

@StarSpangledNubians you were right! 2 bucks 1 doe! So cute! 


 

 

 

 

 


The spotted ones are the bucks.


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## lalabugs

The weights are Buck 1 5.2, Buck 2 4.2, Doe 3.9 
Both bucks came out head first legs backwards. The first buck I had to help pull. Second buck came out with no problems. Doe came out breech! DH is smitten with Buck 1.


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## lalabugs

Udder cream is udder delight.


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## Southern by choice

Adorable!
What were the ear types? I saw erect, and elf...what was the third one?


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## lalabugs

Buck 1 erect,  buck 2 elf,  doe erect.


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## Mini Horses

Congrats!   Two does with healthy kids.

I like the lazy little guy who is laying down nursing.


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## Latestarter

Congrats! Wish it coulda been 2 does and a buck, but all healthy and that's most important.


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## StarSpangledNubians

Oh my goodness they are adorable!   Congrats!


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## lalabugs

The little guy nursing was on it! He was not out even 3 minutes. Started crawling before the first buck! I love the look of the little buck with the elf ears, and DH loves the buck with the erect ears. I keep reminding him we're not keeping them. lol.
More pics from this morning. No names for Marshmallows kids yet. Tianas baby is doing great. His name is balthazar.


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## Southern by choice

mini kids are so stinking adorable!


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## Latestarter

They are so cute! Looks like one has wattles


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## lalabugs

They are so freaking adorable. Yes, the buck with elf ears has wattles. He is the only one with them. I love wattles. 
Almond has 2 weeks 1 day. I am excited to see what she has.


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## lalabugs

If Lotte does what Tiana did, then she should kid tomorrow. Udder was double the size this am, not full. Tianas udder doubled over night, did not fill until the next day. Lottes ligaments are soft.
Lotte is walking around hollering. She never makes a sound unless she is separated from her sister Tiana. Also licking and calling to us.

Marshmallow and Tianas babies are running around, bouncing having a great time. Need to get more pictures of them. We are getting Lottes birthing pen set up.

Tianas edema is gone. Have been milking her to keep her udder even, not fully milking her. I will be drying her up after her baby is weaned.

Has anyone had a doe short cycle? Almond was short cycling. She was bred all 4 times. She did not come back in heat after the 4th time. That's the date I have written down. Which would put her with a EDD of 1/8/19. However her udder is huge this am and she's acting differently. Licking us. Could she have actually taken on one of the other breedings? Picture of Almonds udder.


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## Southern by choice

Yes, she could have taken on an earlier breeding. I am sure you have kept track of all dates so look at first date on.
This happened to an acquaintance of mine and the goat kidded on the first dates. She wasn't paying attention and thought it would be a month later. Doe kidded outside, in the cold (bitter cold winter) all triplets died.   It was so sad. 

Why are you not milking Tiana? Why dry her off?


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## lalabugs

Yes I have all dates. 8/1, 8/5, 8/8 & 8/16. She's in a kidding stall next to Lotte. She's breathing fast. 

Tiana and Lotte got bred earlier than I'd have liked. Even with graining she looks horrible. I sent a fecal off to check. Well see what that shows. Her buck is also messing her teat up. One teat has a big nasty cut from him. 

Lotte is in labor. Amber rope just came out.


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## StarSpangledNubians

I had a doe short cycle last year and kidded on the first date. She went into heat once every 5 days, 3 times. She kidded on day 148 (she did the year before that too) from the first date she was bred.

Good luck! Can't wait to see some more babies!


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## lalabugs

Lotte had a large single doe!


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## B&B Happy goats

Congratulations  on your new kid....and it's  a doe


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## Goat Whisperer

Congratulations! She is beautiful! Are you keeping her?


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## frustratedearthmother

She has a heart on her butt!!!   She's cute, cute, cute!


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## Latestarter

Congrats!


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## lalabugs

We might keep her if Almond does not give us does. It is up in the air. DH loves her. We had agreed that we would only retain 1 doe from Almond. We shall see how that actually works out. lol. 

I did not even notice the heart! All the babies have the same ND sire. She is the only one that has his coloring. 

When I came inside to make dinner. Almond was up/down, pawing and yawning. Have to have DH move the webcam to her pen for me.


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## lalabugs

Almond has amber goo. We will be staying up keeping an eye on her.


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## B&B Happy goats

Sounds like  you may have a busy night !  Good luck...hoping  for more doe's


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## StarSpangledNubians

Awww, baby is so adorable! Can't wait to see what almond has! You will be really busy!


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## lalabugs

Almond had triplets!!! I did not see that, she was not very big at all. No assistance needed. They shot out like rockets!! 
2 does 1 buck.


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## lalabugs

Well since she kidded today the ND is the one who bred her. It is going to be difficult to decide who we are keeping.
Doe 1 has frosted ears. Buck has white spot on side. Doe 2 is the darkest. Doe 2 is my favorite. Weights: Doe 1- 4.3, Buck 4.7, Doe 2 4.2. Lottes doe was 5.6 lbs.


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## StarSpangledNubians

Awww!  Congrats! And 2 does! They are all so cute.


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## Mini Horses

Wow Been busy at your place.   Love the babies.


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## lalabugs

Trying to decide who we will keep is not easy! I love the darker doe. The buck had me freaked out last night. I made sure they all ate, but around midnight he was screaming bloody murder screams. Every time we went to check on him, nothing we could see. I brought him in and gave him milk. Every hour I would bring him in and give him more milk. This morning he is up bouncing around. I guess he did not drink again after the first drink. We are keeping a close eye on him. 

I weighed Marshmallow and Tianas babies. Tianas buck has gained A LOT! His birth weight was 6.8 lbs he is up to 14.5 lbs. Marshmallows triplets have gained but nothing compared to Tianas. Marshmallows gained 2-3 lbs each. They are 7 days old today.


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## lalabugs




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## B&B Happy goats

Congratulations  on all the kids....they are adorable   I would have a hard time choosing who to sell and who to keep........ good luck


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## Southern by choice

Mini kids are the cutest... with or without ears I just adore them!


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## Latestarter

Beautiful kids! Congrats! And 2 does to boot


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## lalabugs

If DH had his way we would never sell any babies.  We might keep both does from Almond. DH loves the doe with ears and I love the other doe. We decided to name them Abba & Zaba. Dams name is Almond Joy, we wanted a candy bar theme names.


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## lalabugs

Last night was the first night I separated babies from dam. I did not milk them out to see what they're producing, just wanted to see udders full. They're not the best pictures.
First marshmallow.  SF All udders are with 11 hour fill.



 


Almond SF


 



Tiana FF.





Lotte FF





I wish Marshmallow had better attachment. Afraid of how low her udder will be after her next kidding. She is easy to milk.

Any thoughts on them?


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## Southern by choice

Looks like Marshmallow has a very nice fore udder! Sometimes those can pull the udder forward.
Almonds fore udder is short  but her rear looks nice
Tiana and Lotte look very nice

I think all those are very nice workable udders.


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