# First Freshener Milk Supply



## Sweetened (Mar 3, 2014)

So, I have an Oberhasli Doe who's a first freshener.  This is my first time with a dairy goat, and the first time with a first freshening one as well.  I'm somewhat concerned.

The Boer, who kidded a couple days after (for the second or third time), over-produces for her kid, and I have had to milk her a couple times now (what a gong show that is ).  My Ober on the other hand, is always dry, her kid keeps her that way.  The kid is growing well (he's bloody huge!), Mom seems healthy.  Is this normal for a first freshening dairy breed, or is it possible I got bad milking lines out of her?  I was hoping to be able to milk her as of Friday, but if the baby is keeping her dry, is it advisable for me to take any from her?

Thanks!


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## alsea1 (Mar 3, 2014)

What are you feeding her?  I give mine alfalfa to increase milk production.  They need alot of groceries to produce.  
If you have several kids you can try penning them at night away from the mom and milk in the morning and then put them together during the day.  They should be fine with that.  In fact the moms may like having some time away from the little brats.  LOL
I'm thinking that three weeks or so should be time enough for the kids to spend the night away from mom.  
As for milking training. LOL It just takes time and much patience.  I ignore the kicking and dancing around.  Eventually they get over it.  You can't get after them because they have to be relaxed to let the milk down.  I gently butt the udder like the kids do to begin. Seems to work.
Also I put some rocks in the feed pan to slow them down a bit so that I can get the milking done before they get bored.  Also I found that it really helps to put them on the milk stand for grooming sessions.  I try to give them a nice brushing if they like that on the stand.  Whatever you can do to make the stand a pleasurable place to be helps.


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## Sweetened (Mar 3, 2014)

thanks Alsea!

I'm not overly worried about the dancing around, I milked Agnes more out of necessity than want ( I wanted to leave the kids on for 2 weeks before milking ), but her kid has a penchant for only drinking off the right teat instead of both.  And, like I said, she over-produces.  I'm VERY Impressed by her production and udder, it's 'globular' with great attachments and good teats.  It takes her a minute to let down, but I but it like you suggested (learned that from milking a cow I had at a share).

Gretel, as long as I have her collar, will let me draw milk from her, she just has none to give.  They are on free choice Alflafa/brome/grass (mostly alfalfa) mix hay from our field, as they have been for a long time.  She doesn't eat any more or less, I have noticed she drinks more which is understandable, so I've been rotating waterers to keep her with access to it.  I know he's getting enough because of how active he is and the sheer amount he's grown in a week (I'd say pretty near doubled his weight).  Perhaps that's what it is, is he just nurses SO much.  I've also been giving her oats to try and help her produce a bit more.  I know the amount is supposed to be quite a bit less than what they produce the second and third year, however I'm just surprised at how dry he's keeping her, she has a pretty good udder.  For the first couple days he was barely keeping up.  She's not hard, just empty.


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## alsea1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Sounds like you are doing what you can.
Do you know any milk info regarding her sire ?  I think milk production is influenced on the sire side. 
I imagine once you get the kid off during the night will help.
My boer has tiny teats.  I tried milking her once but found it quite tedious. Although her milk was awesome.


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## Sweetened (Mar 3, 2014)

Unfortunately, I know very little about her.  She was a dispersal doe I picked up.  The guy who owned the Ober's apparently died and they were left to his kids who didn't want anything to do with them.  Sold them without their papers or registration information, so...


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## alsea1 (Mar 3, 2014)

Could be she will do good next freshening.  I would not give up hope just yet though.  I think they start out low and build up and then gradually drop off. As nature intended.


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## Sweetened (Mar 3, 2014)

I love her to bits, if she doesn't produce a lot, even next freshening, I'll get kids off her but not include her in the full breeding plan I have.  She's such a good doe.

I am still surprised I'm so impressed by my Boer LOL


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## SillyChicken (Mar 4, 2014)

Can you tape up the over nursed teat, like every other day or something?  What about separating her from him at night, milk in the am, then put them back together?


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## Sweetened (Mar 4, 2014)

The one teat that's being over nursed is on my second freshener; sorry, I was just drawing contrast as she's a meat goat who's outproducing my dairy girl.

I'll start separating Dairy mom and baby as of Friday night, as he'll be two weeks old then and the weather is warmer (Even though I'll move the lamp).  I was moreso concerned that if she was being kept dry by her kid, is it detrimental for me to pull him off her, as she seems to be barely keeping up.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

Personally I would not separate the kid from the mom until minimum of 3 weeks. The kid is young and unless you plan on supplementing the kid I do not think he is going to get enough to thrive. IMO a 2 week old kid isn't out of the woods so to speak.
By 3 weeks he will be nibbling on hay etc and his body will start adjusting.


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 4, 2014)

I would not be too concerned about the fact that her kid is keeping her dry.  I've had plenty of first freshner's with a single as you said "huge" buckling that we could not get much milk from while he was with her, who turned out to be good producers.

I would wait until the kid is a month old, and then pull the kid for 12 hour intervals.

Good luck with the Obie's.  They are still listed as "recovering" on the American Livestock Breed Conservancy list.  They were really down in this country and there are some breeders out there who are doing a fantastic job in improving the stock.


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## frustratedearthmother (Mar 4, 2014)

x2


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## Sweetened (Mar 4, 2014)

Thanks.  I got two weeks from Fiasco farms.  I was only planning to milk once a day.  I will hold off, especially with the dairy doe.  I havent had a choice but to pull from my boer, as he doesnt keep up to her production.  I think she could do trips without issue.  They are nibbling on hay, surprisingly, approaching their second week.  They dont eat it yet, mind you, but they pull it out just like Mom and hold it in their mouth.  I've seen it 3 or 4 times now and it's quite hillarious to see.


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## Sweetened (Mar 4, 2014)

OneFineAcre said:


> I would not be too concerned about the fact that her kid is keeping her dry.  I've had plenty of first freshner's with a single as you said "huge" buckling that we could not get much milk from while he was with her, who turned out to be good producers.
> 
> I would wait until the kid is a month old, and then pull the kid for 12 hour intervals.
> 
> Good luck with the Obie's.  They are still listed as "recovering" on the American Livestock Breed Conservancy list.  They were really down in this country and there are some breeders out there who are doing a fantastic job in improving the stock.



Thanks OneFineAcre;

There are less than 40 registered in Canada, and My ober is one of the unregistered ones.  I've actually been really disheartened by the fluff of the registry and how I've been shrugged off.  It's like my ober doesn't matter because there isn't a piece of paper behind her and I can't register her because I have no info to track back on to get some.  But that's a controversial discussion that likely doesn't belong on this forum, just really saddened


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 4, 2014)

If you aren't going to show your animals, registration isn't necessary although there are some other advantages.  Just try to do what you can do to care for and improve your herd.  Our first objective should always to be a good steward of the creatures in our charge.

Have you researched ADGA?  They register animals as NOA (Native on Appearance) or Recorded Grades.  Some of the best dairy animals I have seen are Recorded Grades.  I wouldn't give up, particularly with an Obie.


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## Sweetened (Mar 4, 2014)

Nah, no intention to give up.  I don't put much value in registries, though itd be nice because other people do.  I'm a bit of a tinfoil hat nut job, so I attribute a lot of it to tracking and so on.  I dont know if, as a Canadian, I can do anything with ADGA?  Might be worthwhile.  I'm not good with people, so I dont think I'll show them.  I should say, I'm not good with cliques, and the show circuit seems very cliquey..


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 4, 2014)

There are advantages to registries that have nothing to do with showing, although tracking is part of it. Or rather data  is part of it.  Didn't someone say that those that don't understand history are destined to repeat it?  Registries provide history good and bad. That's why people place value in them.
Wouldn't it be a shame to have a prodigious milk producer with no way to record it?

A Recorded Grade is basically a goat with unproven ancestry, but you can then document her history, and milk production.
And then, we can understand her history.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

Sweetened ... you a tin-foil hat nutjob? Oh say it ain't so. 

You sound so normal to me.


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## Sweetened (Mar 4, 2014)

In Canada, if there is no ancestry, you are S.O.L.  Your only option is to buy a registered animal and breed up over 6 generations (so 6 different bucks...).  Have fun!  THEN you can register your animals as GRADE, and not otherwise.  At least, that's how it has been explained to me.

This boer I have has been pounding out the milk at a dairy pace.  I'm pretty certain when I start milking her daily with the buckling off her, she'll produce a few quarts a day.  She has a nice globular udder, nice sized teats.  Mind you, milking her is a chore and a half, but she'll learn, or I'll hobble her, whichever comes first!

@Southern by choice , you are either terrible at sarcasm or easily fooled  I'm not afraid to say it.  Best to warn people ahead of time, then they can't seem so shocked.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

Wonder what that makes me then.... hmmmm


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## Sweetened (Mar 4, 2014)

loveable. you don't know the half of my insanity here lol


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

Maybe we're kindred... depending on who ya ask. LOL

I think it does take a small amount of tin-foil hat mentality to own goats.


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## jodief100 (Mar 6, 2014)

I pass out tin foil hats at my Goat Producer's meetings.


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## Sweetened (Mar 6, 2014)

I made my own.


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## Goat Whisperer (Mar 6, 2014)




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## Sweetened (Mar 6, 2014)




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## Southern by choice (Mar 6, 2014)

Nut!


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## SA Farm (Mar 6, 2014)

That's awesome! I want one!


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