# Pyr's in the heat



## TexasShepherdess (Mar 27, 2012)

We are having a warm-ish spring here..and Im starting to look ahead to summer..my first summer with my great pyr's. 

My pup is quite resourceful, she loves to lay in mud and water puddles..,
My older Pyr, not so much..but she is good at digging holes and finding shady spots in the pasture. 

I am planning on shaving their bellies and undersides to help with cooling, but Id like to hear from other people on what they do..having border collies, Ive always been against body clipping long haired dogs, as its been drilled into me that the hair helps with cooling as well as warming. I thought about getting  kiddie pool and putting it in the pasture that they could lay in..but Id be very surprised if the older Pyr used it..and shes honestly the one Im worried about, due to her age.. (she is 8) and she has a heavier coat then the pup..(pup has some anatolian shepherd in her)

Thoughts please!


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## MonsterMalak (Mar 27, 2012)

I ran Pyrenees for many years, and used to try to keep a waterhose on a good drip somewhere in good shade.  Try to find one of their vantage points, so they can maintain watch while they are in the cool dirt.  Never did shave them, although that may have helped.

I had alot of problems with fleas and skin problems with the Pyrenees.

Run Boz and Kangals now.  I can take them to town and walk for hours in 95-102 degree heat.  Their heat tollerance is much greater, but they still like wet sand.


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## TexasShepherdess (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks MM..

I Frontline every cat and dog on my place..so these two girls will get that starting in April. The older Pyr came to me with horrible fleas, but one dosing of Frontline got the little buggers.

One thing I HAVE had issue with, the flys love to bit the top of her nose..I dont see it on my pup (probably because shes do darn active)..but the older gal they get her. Ive tried abit of SWAT on her nose, which she hated and promptly went to the farthest corner of the pasture and pouted...thoughts?


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## beckyburkheart (Mar 27, 2012)

MonsterMalak said:
			
		

> Run Boz and Kangals now.  I can take them to town and walk for hours in 95-102 degree heat.  Their heat tollerance is much greater, but they still like wet sand.


what kinds of dogs are these?  I'm really interested in getting and LGD but am very concerned about getting a long haired dog (north central texas) not just because of the heat, but also because of the cactus, burs and other stuff in our rough native pastures.    we had a long haired dog once before and had a lot of trouble with matting and stuff getting stuck in his hair and making sores.  a thick-haird dog (we had a malamute/wolf hybrid) did fine, but not the 'shaggy' haired dog.


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## ShadyAcres (Mar 27, 2012)

Tex - I have read and been told many times not to shave them, as well as some other breeds such as the Aussie or Border Collie.  Had a black Aussie mix years ago that I finally broke down and shaved.  He was a different dog underneath all that hair.  Before he acted like an old man and after he was a pup again.  He changed my mind about shaving dogs.

Last summer I shaved my big red BC.  Hes 5 and had never done him before.  Kept debating it as he has such a beautiful coat, but the heat really got to him.  Doesnt help that he lives in the house except when he is out with me.  He too was much happier.  

I have also shaved my LGDs.  Will do it again if I can find some clippers.  Usually just buy cheap human clippers from Dollar Store ($7  10) and get 1 to 2 dogs with it before it burns out or gets too dull.  Want to buy a good one, but just havent yet.  

Becky  Anatolian Shepherds are becoming more popular around here due to their coat.  They come in short hair and tolerate our heat and humidity better.  My older male is half AS and half GP.  His father had a rough coat as does he, but it is not as long or thick as my GP.  I bred his daughter (3/4 GP) who actually sheds to a short haired AS and hope that this pup turns out short haired as well.  






Roscoe - Anatolian Shepherd.  Father to my pup.


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## TexasShepherdess (Mar 27, 2012)

I love a pretty haircoat..I did not shave my BC's during our heatwave last year..but they do live inside with me..could definantly tell they were hot outside though..

Mabey Ill shave the Pyr's and just see how they do..when did you shave yours? and did they have their coats back by fall?


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## ShadyAcres (Mar 27, 2012)

Didn't shave the LGD's last year.  Did the year before, but can't remember when.  Know it was later than I had intended....  Was worried that I had waited too late but they did fine.  Same with my BC last year.  Was probably July before I convinced myself I had to do it for his sake.  By the time cold weather got here he was fine, but then again we had a pretty mild winter.  If I had clippers handy I would be doing my LGD's now as we have skipped spring!


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## carolinagirl (Mar 28, 2012)

Belly shave is good because they can cool themselves better by laying in cool dirt or water.  Don't shave them all over though.  The double coat actually acts as an insulator from the heat.

Many folks in Texas use Anatolian Shepherds because their coats are much shorter, sort of similar to the coat you'd see on a German Shepherd.


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## Roll farms (Mar 28, 2012)

I was told not to shave our great pyr, so I didn't the 1st 2 yrs.  The 3rd year we had to, he still had his last 2 blown coats matted in w/ his latest.  He just didn't shed properly and looked more like a Kom than a Pyr.  

He was a MUCH happier animal after being shaved.

We have a female who blows her coat just fine, with a little help from us (brushing and cutting the matts off her rump area) so we don't shave her.

We bred her to an An. Sheperd and the son we kept has the perfect coat....warm in winter, sheds in summer, and no-maintenance.


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## TexasShepherdess (Mar 28, 2012)

the older pyr blew her coat about a month after I got her (she was underfed and I think once she got good food, she blew the dead hair..) and she shed very nicely..I did help her abit.

the pup's haircoat is alittle courser and not as heavy as my older girls..and I imagine thats the anatolian in her.

OK, what Im going to do is start with belly shaves..and if the old girl doesnt seem to be cooling well, we will go to a full shave.

thoughts on a fly repellent for her nose? what about a fly collar?


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## Roll farms (Mar 28, 2012)

Oops, meant to comment on that too, and forgot.

I had NO luck w/ any of the swat stuff.  Did like "War Paint" but dunno if they still make it (looks like a stick of deoderant, stayed on noses well and worked great), used to get it at TSC and they quit carrying it.....  Last year I started using Ultra Shield from Tractor Supply.  Works better than swat.  I didn't spray her face, just put it on my hand or a rag and wiped her furry snout parts / head / ears.  She always goes and tries to 'rub' off whatever I put on, and this seems to work regardless.


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## beckyburkheart (Mar 28, 2012)

carolinagirl said:
			
		

> Many folks in Texas use Anatolian Shepherds because their coats are much shorter, sort of similar to the coat you'd see on a German Shepherd.


it sounds like the anatolian might be what i need. for some reason, i was thinking they were long(er) haired as well.


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## carolinagirl (Mar 28, 2012)

They have a very thick coat in the winter but shed out their undercoat in the spring.  Most have shorter coat, a few are long coated.  When I say short, not like boxer fur but shorter like German Shepherd fur.  It's very low maintenance.  I'll brush mine soon to help them shed out their undercoat faster, but that's all the grooming they need.  Their hair is too short to mat up.  You should have no trouble finding an Anatolian in Texas.


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## redtailgal (Mar 28, 2012)

My breeder has three Great Pyrs..........she is CONSTANTLY having to groom and clip their mats off.  They all have an astronomical amount of hair.  They look like these massive dogs, but when you stick your arm through all that hair.......there is a normal sized dog under there!  They are amazing with her goats, two of them are very friendly once they get to know you and understand that you arent a threat to the herd, but one is very shy and doesnt really like to be touched.  She'll hang out and "talk" to me though, lol.

These dogs have dug out several cooling spots, and will lay in the creek or in the water troughs during hot weather.

She had a few anatolians at one point, but felt they were too aggressive.

I just dont think I could handle all the hair of the Great Pyr, so when we get to the point that I am ready for LGD, I am hoping to get a GP/Anatolian cross.


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## TexasShepherdess (Mar 28, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Oops, meant to comment on that too, and forgot.
> 
> I had NO luck w/ any of the swat stuff.  Did like "War Paint" but dunno if they still make it (looks like a stick of deoderant, stayed on noses well and worked great), used to get it at TSC and they quit carrying it.....  Last year I started using Ultra Shield from Tractor Supply.  Works better than swat.  I didn't spray her face, just put it on my hand or a rag and wiped her furry snout parts / head / ears.  She always goes and tries to 'rub' off whatever I put on, and this seems to work regardless.


I think Ive seen War Paint at Atwoods..but its been awhile..

Glad to know Angel is not the only pyr who hates "stuff" being put on her..she was genuinely annoyed and put out when I used the SWAT on her nose..drives me nuts seeing the flys getting her though.


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## beckyburkheart (Mar 28, 2012)

>>She had a few anatolians at one point, but felt they were too aggressive.

What's conventional wisdom on this, and everyone's experience?

I'm assuming you mean "people aggressive" as in "they don't make good house dogs"?  how are they with horses and chickens?

I'm in kind of a weird rural subdivision that's still pretty wild but very close to a rapidly growing wanna-be-plex.  we have all the problems on both ends of people moving out there and thinking it's "country" and "anything goes" as well as those who seem to have absolutely no clue what it means to live in the country.  So the end result is that everyone lets there dogs run loose and breed indiscriminately.   .... I came within spitting distance of shotgunning two pit bulls stuck together in my yard last weekend until i realized the mom and kids were watching from across the street and my SO wouldn't let me shoot them in front of the kids. ... it's coming to that.

I'm getting close to having in savings what i budgeted to clean up and fix the fencing on my ~30 acres and a super aggressive dog is sounding really good at this point.


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## redtailgal (Mar 28, 2012)

The ana's were great with the goats and horses........but were so protective that they had to be locked up away from the herd if the breeder needed to do something, like help deliver or trim hooves. 

These dogs were fine with her at any other point, but when they laid claim on the herd, they CLAIMED it.


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## carolinagirl (Mar 28, 2012)

I depends on how much you socialize them with strangers.  I know plenty of people who have tolies as house dogs and show dogs.  I socialize mine a lot and have no trouble with them being aggressive, of course they are not mature yet either so that could change.  They are more aggressive then pyrs.


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## beckyburkheart (Mar 28, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> The ana's were great with the goats and horses........but were so protective that they had to be locked up away from the herd if the breeder needed to do something, like help deliver or trim hooves.
> 
> These dogs were fine with her at any other point, but when they laid claim on the herd, they CLAIMED it.


well.  ok.  that's good to know.  i'd have to figure out how to manage that.  my dad has two good goat dogs and they are semi-that way.  they have to 'be careful' when they manage the goats.  i have some working pens attached to my stalls and barn so it might not be too hard to redo some gates to have the kind of flow we need.


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## TexasShepherdess (Mar 28, 2012)

what I was "told" was, on average, the ant's tend to be alittle more standoffish by nature then say, the Pyr's? I was told Pyr's are alittle "Easier" to handle, espc for firstime LGD owners (like me!) and werent as protective.

My pup is 1/4 Ant..she is quite protective (even chases birds out of the sheep pasture)..but still easy to handle. and my full Pyr girl..while the most dopey mellow looking dog, is very watchful..espc with strange people, mostly men..she is very wary of strange men.


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## Mzyla (Mar 28, 2012)

Regarding Summer Heat; 
one of my dogs (Karakachan) just love to stand in a kiddie pool that I have set for ducks 
She stand in it for a few minutes cooling her feet and get out all happy!

My Pyr on the other hand dislike water! I tried to sprinkle him or get him into this pool and forget about!
Instead he is finding himself shady places. 

As to his hair;
Since I'm brushing them almost every day, they have very lustrous coat. Karakachan doesn't seem to have any signifficant under coat, just long hair.
Pyr; just recently I get rid of all of his winter "down" undercoat and now he looks pretty lean


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## TexasShepherdess (Mar 28, 2012)

Guess mabey I need to get brushing on my girls..


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## MonsterMalak (Mar 29, 2012)

beckyburkheart said:
			
		

> MonsterMalak said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Becky,

  The Kangals and Anatolians are very similar, and there is a ton of info on the net.  They tolerate the heat beautifully.  Great dogs, and are short coated enough to not ever need any washing, brushing or care.  Self Cleaning, and no burs.

  The Boz are even shorter hair, and more heat tolerant.  Look them up at www.itgdc.com Link not working,, International Turkish Guardian dog Club


Having a dog that will get out and patrol or investigate in 100 degree plus weather is a good plus.  especially in recent years


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## beckyburkheart (Mar 29, 2012)

The Kangal sounds really perfect for me and there is a breeder just about three hours away.  i'm going to try to contact them and see about getting lined up for a puppy once I finish our fencing projects (hopefully in the next few months). 

thanks for the info!!


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## beckyburkheart (Mar 29, 2012)

MonsterMalak said:
			
		

> The Kangals and Anatolians are very similar, and there is a ton of info on the net.  They tolerate the heat beautifully.  Great dogs, and are short coated enough to not ever need any washing, brushing or care.  Self Cleaning, and no burs.
> 
> The Boz are even shorter hair, and more heat tolerant.  Look them up at ,, International Turkish Guardian dog Club
> 
> ...


I'm finding a lot of somewhat conflicting information.  apparently. all the turkish stock dogs are named for the regions were they are popular.  I'm finding two farms in texas, one says they have Kangal and Boz dogs and the other says they have kangals but also refers to them as anatolian.... so are they similar but different or different names for the same dogs or ...?


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## beckyburkheart (Mar 30, 2012)

another question: 

what is the difference or how do you know or what breeds are supposed to do what as far as the difference between a "guardian" that guards and area (livestock, people, stuff) and a "Livestock guardian" that guards *his/her* HERD - potentially even from the handler. 

thoughts, comments,,.. ?


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## TexasShepherdess (Apr 2, 2012)

Becky, I dont know a whole bunch about LGD's..but I know MY pyr's guard my sheep..but they know the members of my family..if a strange person (for example a buyer) comes around, I do put them up..because they are not keen on strangers (particularly men)...so in following your question..I would expect any LGD to know the "shepherd"..My bigger Pyr barked at me once..but I did surprise her in the dark and I did not announce myself..I always make sure to announce myself to them so they know it's me now. If my LGD prevented me from interacting with the sheep..well, the dog would be gone..Im not a range operation..I need a dog who protects the flock, but is fine with seeing me at least twice a day at feedings..


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 2, 2012)

Becky,

  This is Brian that you have been talking to from Texas.  

For the confusion about the breeds of dogs from turkey.  Huge element of contributing factors.  But basically is a country full of working dogs.  Different regions have different types of dogs.  The confusion is complicated with pride, fighting, territories,,,,etc.

Anatolians are a mixture of turkish dogs brought to the USA and bred.  Kangals are basically from Central Turkey.  Boz are the Nomads dogs from South East Turkey.  Akbash are white Yoruk from Western. Kars are from North Eastern. 
  So just depends on how you want to divide them up.  

The Turkish dogs are great at being a family and LGD type of dog at the same time.  

Hope that helps,,,,,


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## Remuda1 (Apr 12, 2012)

"One thing I HAVE had issue with, the flys love to bit the top of her nose..I dont see it on my pup (probably because shes do darn active)..but the older gal they get her"

Tex, I was at Petsmart today and noticed that K9 Advantix is labeled to prevent flies from "blood feeding". There were others that were labeled for Mosquitos but none other for flies. $62.99 for six (monthly) doses for a 55 lb dog. They didn't have a larger sized dog formula so I don't know if they don't offer it or if they were just out. 

It seems that I've also seen fly repellant collars in Jeffers catalog. I'm going to look into that as well.


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## TexasShepherdess (Apr 13, 2012)

the fly repellent collars were what I was thinking of..poor girl..


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## Remuda1 (Apr 13, 2012)

Jefferspet does have the collars. There are several different ones, they didn't really look like they were sturdy enough for pasture living dogs but I didn't do much research. This is based solely on appearance. Try Jefferspet.com if you want to take a look.


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