# cross breeding KINDERS



## Birchhatchery (Aug 12, 2011)

does anyone no of good sights or words of wisom on cross breeding a pygmy buck to a large breed doe. i cant rember but i thought i read someone took a pygmy and bred it to a boar doe to make shorter stockier boars and ive also herd of crossing a pygmy with a nubian doe to get mini nubians anyone no much about this?


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## elevan (Aug 12, 2011)

pygmy buck + nubian doe = kinders
pygmy buck + angora doe = pygora
pygmy buck + any other breed = just a cross breed as far as I know

Although since both pygmies and boers are both meat breeds I suppose you could call that cross a mini boer  :/

I don't know any sites to visit off hand...you could google it and see what comes up.


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## Birchhatchery (Aug 13, 2011)

im interested in the kinder goats im thinking of trien it


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## RPC (Aug 13, 2011)

A mini Nubian is when you cross and ND, not a pygmy, with a nubian.


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## Birchhatchery (Aug 14, 2011)

i think im going to shoot for kinders but i herd they are not really kinders untile the 3rd generation anyone no


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## RPC (Aug 14, 2011)

Thats what I was told also.


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## elevan (Aug 14, 2011)

Birchhatchery said:
			
		

> i think im going to shoot for kinders but i herd they are not really kinders untile the 3rd generation anyone no


I believe that is correct.  There are a couple of people here who have them, I'm sure that they can provide more info.  Maybe you could change your title to include "kinder" in it to draw their attention...(just go to your first post and hit edit).


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Aug 15, 2011)

In general when making a new "breed" by crossing you get to 3 generations of crossing and then if the animals are breeding true to what you are looking for then you have a new official "thingie". 

So say you take a Pygmy and a Boer.   Your first generation Borpys or Pygers, or what have you are called F1.  If you breed two F1s you get an F2.  And breeding F2s gets you an F3 and the F3's kids are your new Thingie. 

 If you breed an F1 or a F2 back to an earlier generation it resets to the earlier number.   So for example if you breed an F3 back to a Pygmy or a Boer the resulting Borpys of that union are reset to an F1 because you went back to earlier stock.  This can have it's benefits if you decide that you really wanted a little more of what ever trait was in your pure stock.  


Also as far as markets go... Unless you started with really good breeding stock and you are carefully culling out flaws such as bad udders, crooked mouths, wonky legs, etc then your new certified official thingie is called Scrub Goats.


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## KinderKorner (Aug 15, 2011)

I breed KINDERS!!

They are awesome little goats.

They are a cross between a 100% purebred Nubian and a registered pygmy. They are registered.

When you cross you get a 1st generation kinder. They are still registered, but on theirs papers it will say "Certified Registered Kinder" After they are 5th gen. and up it will only say Registered Kinder. I have never seen any difference, they aren't worth more if they are 5th gen and up, they aren't any more registered, and I haven't ever seen someone not want one because it wasn't 5th gen. The Kinder breeders don't really care. 

I love my Kinders. They are great milkers, small enough to handle, smart, calm, and good for meat too! 

If anyone is interested in seeing them first hand I know some of the Kinder Breeders are going to be at the MO state fair this weekend. Including myself!

If you have questions or would like to get into breeding them I'd love to point you in the right direction or help out. I'm always excited when people are interested in them. You can contact me at lisalarose77@yahoo.com


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## Birchhatchery (Aug 15, 2011)

just a simple question why do they have regigsters ya id get more but majority of people here dont sell regigersted or buy them granted yes their are a few who do plus ive got a buitiful pygmy buck but is not regigsterd


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## KinderKorner (Aug 15, 2011)

Registered means you get way more money for what your selling. It's also a great and easy way to keep track of birth dates, age, parents... It lets people see what lines your goats come from. And you can't show unregistered goats without a ear tag. Which I won't do. 

I breed mostly registered. No one around my area buys registered goats. I sell all of mine on the internet. I also keep a few unregistered does to sell kids to local people. But it's the difference in $50 and $200.


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## manybirds (Aug 15, 2011)

Birchhatchery said:
			
		

> does anyone no of good sights or words of wisom on cross breeding a pygmy buck to a large breed doe. i cant rember but i thought i read someone took a pygmy and bred it to a boar doe to make shorter stockier boars and ive also herd of crossing a pygmy with a nubian doe to get mini nubians anyone no much about this?


to get mini nubians u cross a nigerian dwarf buck with a nubian doe.


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## Prisca (Aug 16, 2011)

Seven or eight generations ago we bred a Dwarf Nigerian to one of our Full blood Nubians. We were wanting to establish a Mini Nubian herd. Others in the area who stated they also wanted such a herd backed out and we were the only one with babies from the crossing.  We did not care for the attitude of the Nigerian buck and he was gone very quickly. In our current herd we have generations 6, 7, and 8. We had no generations 1 to breed to generation 1 etc. so we always bred back to full blood Nubian. Every generation until generation 7 had flying ears.  Generation 5 maintained the smallness we were shooting for, generation 6 was much larger, long hair,short ears generation 7 smaller again, slick coat, long ears  and generation 8 has the long ears, slick coat and smaller size. Interesting huh. We are extremely pleased with the milk production, their health is much better than the pure Nubian. It is interesting enough to us that we are thinking about trying this again and this time do two does with 2 different bucks and make our own first generations to breed to our own first generations. These girls are named Pixie, TTinkerbelle, and Sprite - hard to guess that they are smaller LOL


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## Birchhatchery (Aug 16, 2011)

how long would i have to leave a nubian in with a pygmy buck to make sure she was bred or what the rule of thumb for how long? and how well do yall think 1st generation kinders would sell?


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## KinderKorner (Aug 17, 2011)

Although breeding might occur with leaving a pygmy buck with a nubian doe, most breeders chose to help out a little by holding the nubian up by some sort of step the pygmy can use because of the height difference. A haybale, pallet, or concrete blocks would all work. 

My Kinders have all sold well.


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## Birchhatchery (Aug 17, 2011)

i have a stump and a truck tool box that they lay on in the pen. Anyhow back to question how long do i need to leave the doe in with the buck to make sure shes bred or wats is the rule of thumb


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## Goatherd (Aug 18, 2011)

I don't know that there's a rule of thumb but more of a case by case situation.
When my does came into season I knew it.  I put the buck with each one for probably no more than a half hour.  Both does were bred and produced twins.

If you unsure of the status of your doe's cycle, keep the buck with her/them continually.  Since you're wanting your goats to be bred and if the buck isn't aggressive or harmful to the does, leaving him with them for days or weeks for that matter shouldn't pose a problem.


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## elevan (Aug 18, 2011)

My "rule of thumb" is 4 successful "contacts" when putting them together for a short bit...usually doesn't take long.  Or you could leave them together for 45 days to make sure you catch 2 cycles.


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## Birchhatchery (Aug 18, 2011)

i figured it may take longer for a short pygmy to breed a nubian when i had pygmys before i left the doe in with the buck untile the doe bagged up but my buck then was not agreessive i didnlt no how long a doe could be left in with a buck before the buck did damage to the kids in side the mother if he would horn her


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## DAS (Oct 11, 2011)

I also breed kinders (and yes, it is kin-der), and I just love them.  Best milk I've ever had, wonderful for drinking and for cheese--I've had other breeds & their milk, while good, just doesn't taste as sweet.  They are calm, easy to manage and prolific breeders.  Check out the KGBA (kinder goat breeders association) web page for more info & to contact breeders.


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