# Trying to learn and prepare myself



## KellyK (Sep 18, 2015)

I have three Nigerian does due the first part of October. Trying to prepare myself as much as I can. I have been reading and taking notes. Preparing a birthing kit. I have rabbits so I know that they will all wait until it is the worse possible time to kid. I also know that all three will kid at one time. Why? Because that is my worst nightmare. 
I also know they will like every other animal around here have the kid (s) while my husband is not around in a storm in the middle of the night. Just like the eggs that were suppose to hatch while he was home every single chick waited until he left for 3 weeks to hatch. His cat had kittens the late night/early morning after he returned to work after taking two weeks off. 
I have myself prepared for bottle babies. Been reading up on their needs. What to watch out for and what to do in different situations. I have been there for puppies and kittens being born. I have had six children myself so I should be the most prepared person ever. I have read and read and read about helping stuck kids to come out. How to care for them and such after they are born. 
One thing I have not read about is if the kid is coming out breech. Being that I had one breech baby myself I know the dangers of a breech birth. But with Nigerians do I even attempt to turn? Or do I just help the kid out in the breech position?I know breech is not ideal for birthing, but I also know how much pain is involved in the attempt to turn a breech. They tried and failed with mine. He came out backside first and has the kiss my backside attitude to this day. I want to be able to keep mom and kids safe. 
What are the dangers of a breech birth for goats? The mom? The kid (s)? Pros and cons of turning? I do not have much in the way of hand strength so I am pretty sure I could not turn a breech. I also have my vet on speed dial in case of an emergency I can't handle. I want to be as prepared as I can possibly be before the big day or I should say night. 
We are going to build the kidding pens this or next weekend. I have read that 4 ft x 5 ft is the proper size for kidding pens. Is this correct? I know I will probably even with all my preparing and reading still make mistakes. I just really want to avoid as many as I can and want to avoid making deadly mistakes, if I can. 

So my questions are as follows:
What are the dangers of a breech birth for goats? 
To the mom? 
To the kid (s)? 
Pros and cons of turning? 
What else should I watch out for?
Proper kidding pens size?
Any other things I should know?


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 18, 2015)

If they are coming straight breach, back legs out just go ahead and pull the back legs and get them out quick.  The big danger with this is that the cord will break and they will start to breath with their head still inside the birth canal, and drown.  If you are present, and the back legs come out first, this is usually one of the easiest to deal with.  Just pull on the legs when she is pushing and try to get them out quickly.

The problem is a rump first breach where the legs are tucked up under them.  With that you have to go in and get their legs up and out first.  That can be pretty awful.  If they are already in the birth canal, you may have to actually push them back in some.

We've never tried to turn one completely.


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## KellyK (Sep 18, 2015)

My breech son came out rump first. He had his feet by his ears. Can you tell I am a bit nervous about all of this?  I want to be as prepared as I can so that I will have less of a chance of a bad ending.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 18, 2015)

Fernie said:


> My breech son came out rump first. He had his feet by his ears. Can you tell I am a bit nervous about all of this?  I want to be as prepared as I can so that I will have less of a chance of a bad ending.




Well, I hope it all goes smoothly for you.

Do you have a vet available in case you run into problems?


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 18, 2015)

Rump first with the legs underneath (like your son) is the most difficult.

Sometimes, they will come head first, but will have their front legs underneath them which can make the shoulders too wide for the doe to push out (sometimes, sometimes she can push it out)
You can't pull them by the neck, so you have to get your hand in there and try to get the legs up over their head.  Can be tight in there with Nigerians.


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## madcow (Sep 18, 2015)

The wether in my avatar is Waldo, and when he was born both front legs were folded back and it took me pulling him with all my might while my husband held mom.  He was big and it was Trixie's first.  I really thought I would pull his head off, but kids are sturdier than you think.  You will find that you will do whatever needs to be done. Most of the time outcomes are favorable, but sometimes no matter what heroics you perform there will be losses, and first ones are the most difficult.  You sound as though you've prepared well to handle the situation.  Good luck with you kidding and be sure to post plenty of pictures!


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## Goat Whisperer (Sep 18, 2015)

This is a good place to look at-
http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=285

When dealing with a breach we just pull them out quickly. Whenever we had a breach the rear legs were presented first. 

Another thing it make sure you suction the kids well with a bulb syringe. If they have a lot of fluid don't be afraid to swing them by the back legs. I do it with most of the kids to make sure all the fluid is OUT. This won't break the kids legs, use one hand to grab the hind legs and the other hand to hold the chest area. Those babies are slippery so be careful not to drop them. After I swing, I suction again as soon as they are back on the ground.

If your doe is having trouble raise her rear end up high to let gravity work and the kids will start to slide back. This can really help.

MOST goats kid without an issue  But its still great that you are prepared! Try to stay calm and keep the doe calm. Some does will not let me leave them when kidding is close, they take great comfort when someone is with them. We did have a doe who would get real clingy 12hrs before kidding and then when the time comes she would do what she can to get away and kid on her own  brat.

Can't wait to hear how it goes! Make sure you tell us when they kid, and don't forget the pics! I won't have kids till Jan. 2016, I can't wait  Love me some goat kids!


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## KellyK (Sep 18, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> Well, I hope it all goes smoothly for you.
> 
> Do you have a vet available in case you run into problems?



I happen to have a fantastic vet. He charges 45 for a farm visit. I did let him and his office know that we have the three due in October and one in November just in case we have a problem and need to call him.


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## KellyK (Sep 18, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> Rump first with the legs underneath (like your son) is the most difficult.
> 
> Sometimes, they will come head first, but will have their front legs underneath them which can make the shoulders too wide for the doe to push out (sometimes, sometimes she can push it out)
> You can't pull them by the neck, so you have to get your hand in there and try to get the legs up over their head.  Can be tight in there with Nigerians.



I've been reading about all that can go wrong and what to do for most things. Just nervous about this as it is my first time with goats. Rabbits are so much easier and less complicated.


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## KellyK (Sep 18, 2015)

madcow said:


> The wether in my avatar is Waldo, and when he was born both front legs were folded back and it took me pulling him with all my might while my husband held mom.  He was big and it was Trixie's first.  I really thought I would pull his head off, but kids are sturdier than you think.  You will find that you will do whatever needs to be done. Most of the time outcomes are favorable, but sometimes no matter what heroics you perform there will be losses, and first ones are the most difficult.  You sound as though you've prepared well to handle the situation.  Good luck with you kidding and be sure to post plenty of pictures!



I guess it is more first time jitters. Originally my husband was suppose to be home for the month of October so he would be here when they kidded. He changed companies and the chance of a month off went out the window. Doing this solo on my first kidding is not my plan. I keep reading and reading trying to burn the information into my brain.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 18, 2015)

We don't swing ours by their back legs.
I've seen Dr. Pol do it with calves, but I've never done that with our Nigerians.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 18, 2015)

Fernie said:


> I guess it is more first time jitters. Originally my husband was suppose to be home for the month of October so he would be here when they kidded. He changed companies and the chance of a month off went out the window. Doing this solo on my first kidding is not my plan. I keep reading and reading trying to burn the information into my brain.



Yeah, I know what you mean.  It's usually my wife and myself.  And the one time we dealt with a rump first breach, it took both of us.
I'm hoping for easy kidding for your girls


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## KellyK (Sep 18, 2015)

Goat Whisperer said:


> This is a good place to look at-
> http://www.boergoats.com/clean/articleads.php?art=285
> 
> When dealing with a breach we just pull them out quickly. Whenever we had a breach the rear legs were presented first.
> ...




I have a few items we need to get. I use to have a few bulb syringes from when my children were born, that we never used. I looked for them and apparently the box with that stuff in it was tossed when we moved to WI from PA.

The three that are due in October are over a year and have never kidded. The one in November has kidded before. I am probably just being overly nervous about this. I also know my critters and they will do everything they can to make it harder than it needs to be.

I know about trying to stay calm. These girls are the funniest things in the world. The littlest one, Sophia, kept getting stuck in the fence when we first got her. I learned fast to calm myself and talk softly to her to calm her. Once she was calm I could get her unstuck pretty easily. All my goats are horned except for, Daisy. Daisy is naturally polled.

I will take a ton of pictures. Now remembering to upload them will be the real issue.

Here are my girls 

Daisy






Queenie in front, Grace behind her and Sophia on the right



 


Here is our Buck

Snickers


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## KellyK (Sep 18, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> Yeah, I know what you mean.  It's usually my wife and myself.  And the one time we dealt with a rump first breach, it took both of us.
> I'm hoping for easy kidding for your girls



I am not a fan of surprises. My husband surprised me a few weeks ago by coming home when he was suppose to be still driving OTR. I stood staring at him for a few minutes thinking I was hallucinating and should got to the hospital. I actually told the kids to get ready to go out cause I was really sick. lol


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## Pamela (Sep 18, 2015)

I can't help with the actual birthing advice, our girls have gone unassisted the past two years. This year, we can't seem to get anyone pregnant, but that is another saga!  I will say that our last kidding (May 2014) all 3 of our nubian does dropped kids in a couple of hours of each other.  We had 7 babies in a very short time, and it was quite a mess to figure out who belonged to who, as they were all in together.  Super fun! Good Luck!


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## KellyK (Sep 18, 2015)

Pamela said:


> I can't help with the actual birthing advice, our girls have gone unassisted the past two years. This year, we can't seem to get anyone pregnant, but that is another saga!  I will say that our last kidding (May 2014) all 3 of our nubian does dropped kids in a couple of hours of each other.  We had 7 babies in a very short time, and it was quite a mess to figure out who belonged to who, as they were all in together.  Super fun! Good Luck!




I and my husband both agree that we need to prepare for having those 3 drop 5 kids each. My moto is prepare for the worst. I have a few more items to get this weekend, but they are minor things and I usually have something else that will work if push comes to shove. He knows I need to have all my ducks in a row or I go into panic mode. He is a natural procrastinator.


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## animalmom (Sep 19, 2015)

So you don't have any confusion as to which kids belong to what mom, you could get a different color animal paint stick (sold at your local feed store, or bought online) for each doe and then once her kids are dry you mark the kids and the mom with the color.  Next mom gets a different color until you are done.  You may need to remark the kids as the moms tend to groom them a lot. 

Good luck with your does; they all look healthy.  Your buck is a handsome dude... and don't forget the pictures!  Please and thank you.


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## KellyK (Sep 19, 2015)

The does don't look so scraggly now. Their coats? not sure what to call it, has a nice shine to it and looks more kempt. We have since getting the girls found out we are required to have them ear tagged. We have tagged them and changed their diet enough that they seem to be in much better health. The breeder we got him from told us that he only produced blue eyed kids for her. Even when Mom was brown eyed. Oh he so knows he is handsome. 
Thanks for the ideal. Will have to tell my husband so he can get me something. For now 4 colors will do us. I have not even thought of that. And I promise I will post pictures as I can. I may forget so if you see it is past when they are due just smack me in the back of the head to remind me. lol


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## Hens and Roos (Sep 19, 2015)

maybe see if you can have a friend/neighbor available to come and help- it's always nice to have an extra set of hands.  Put all the items you need in a bin so at the 1st sign of labor you can grab and take with you.


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## KellyK (Sep 19, 2015)

It will be me and my kids. Nobody else I can count on. We can't even get somebody reliable to come feed and water once a day if we have to go out of town over night. I do have 3 of my children who will attempt to help me. They are the same three who usually help me with morning chores.


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## Fullhousefarm (Sep 28, 2015)

You will do fine!

We had our first triplets this year in 28' weather (in Florida we are NOT used to that!) and did just fine. My 12 year old daughter actually was the only one there for the first one, and my 3 and 5 year olds were great baby snugglers and blow dryers (just because it was so cold and windy) while she was having the last one.

We've had 9 births here (21 babies?) and I've only had to re-position one baby- and that's all first and second fresheners. Baby was good sized and first time mom (Nigerian). After 20 minutes of no baby and the bubble had popped I felt a top of head/neck. Baby was head down. Grabbed under her chin and pointed her nose the right way and mom pushed her out the next contraction. I love having clean gloves since I don't have a sink near my kidding stall. I was all alone that night since it was 1 am and my 12 year old didn't wake up when I told her I was going out because I heard her calling on the monitor.


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## KellyK (Sep 29, 2015)

I have three due about the 9th of October. I am going to be solo since my 13 yr old and my 12 yr old would be no help. Except to tell me how gross it all is. I may get the 9 yr old twins to help if I need extra hands. The youngest two would be busy trying to feed them hay. I have a hair dryer in the area of the kidding pens. Also have my kidding gear all at the ready. I am still reading every day to be mentally as ready as I can be. I know the twins are excited and want me to wake them if they are asleep when the babies come. I already explained that only if I need extra hands will I wake them.
I would rather be ready for any issues that may come up. We have an extra pen set up in case the girls reject any of the babies. We also have the outdoor pens set up so I can put the Mamas and their babies outside on nice days. 
It is only 57 today and a bit chilly, so the girls were put in their kidding pens just so if they decide to go early. My husband is trying to be home for the births. The one that is due in November has kidded before and is outside enjoying the freedom of the pen without the others.


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## Latestarter (Sep 29, 2015)

Not too much longer to wait!  Gonna live vicariously through you  Gotta share pics when the new babies arrive! Good luck!


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 29, 2015)

My favorite deliveries are the ones when you go out there to check her, and find two on the ground, already cleaned up and nursing.


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## KellyK (Sep 29, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> My favorite deliveries are the ones when you go out there to check her, and find two on the ground, already cleaned up and nursing.


Oh like I would luck out like that. Only my rabbits do that. Bought one and a week later she had "friends" in her cage. Yes, kids went and did morning feed and water and thought it was so nice that she had friends in her cage. Never finished rinsing shampoo out of my hair, dried off and dressed so fast in my life. I was amazed I didn't kill myself and managed to be decent as I went out the door. lol


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## Latestarter (Oct 14, 2015)

Any news? Close? Hate to be nosy, but I need a kid fix!


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## KellyK (Oct 15, 2015)

No. They seem to be holding out for Christmas. lol I had 4 rabbits that were due about the same time and only one produced a litter. This is driving me insane. I will post once we have babies. I promise.


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## bloonskiller911 (Oct 19, 2015)

There should be babies by now!!!! We need pictures!!


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## KellyK (Oct 19, 2015)

Nope, no babies. I think the breeding date may have been wrong or the calculations we way off. As of an hour ago there were no babies. And no sign of babies any time soon. I am the one going in every 6 to 8 hours to check on them. Drives the kids crazy cause they want to see the babies.


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## KellyK (Oct 21, 2015)

Still no babies yet. Who wants to guess when they will arrive? I am saying Christmas and a friend is saying Halloween. LOL So anybody want in on the guessing game?


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## norseofcourse (Oct 21, 2015)

We need pictures to help with the guessing    Side view, rear view, closeup of rear view...


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## KellyK (Oct 22, 2015)

Will get them later today. I am on my way to the vet with the one feline who has ripped open his leg. He needs stitches and is not very cooperative so the vet is gonna does him and then stitch him.


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## KellyK (Oct 22, 2015)

This is Sophia. Please excuse the mess but they are goats and knew I wanted to take pictures. She was the first of the three. She also is very extremely mushy in the tail area.


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## KellyK (Oct 22, 2015)

Grace


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## KellyK (Oct 22, 2015)

Here is the third one, Queenie


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## Latestarter (Oct 22, 2015)

Just curious because I can't see/tell... Have any of them started bagging up yet? I can't see any udder development on any of them. Are they all first fresheners? Are you going to give those cute hinies a haircut/trim before birthing? It will make clean up a lot easier and make less of a mess when the inevitable happens...  

If they are as close as they are supposed to be, I'm guessing they are all singles from the pics. But having never been through it, I have no real experience to draw on  Pretty excited to see the outcome though!


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## Hens and Roos (Oct 22, 2015)

@Latestarter - she is in Northern WI and it will start getting colder here so she might not want to clip them up too much


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## KellyK (Oct 22, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> Just curious because I can't see/tell... Have any of them started bagging up yet? I can't see any udder development on any of them. Are they all first fresheners? Are you going to give those cute hinies a haircut/trim before birthing? It will make clean up a lot easier and make less of a mess when the inevitable happens...
> 
> If they are as close as they are supposed to be, I'm guessing they are all singles from the pics. But having never been through it, I have no real experience to draw on  Pretty excited to see the outcome though!




The three of them are first timers.  Not sure about the bagging up as they do not like to be handled much and my poor husband had a time to get them to stay still so we could get pictures of them. Not going to trim them a it is a getting chilly up this way. I have no issues cleaning up the mess, even if it requires a bit more work. 

Once they have them we will know the number. I have eggs hatching atm and a injured cat that needs my attention so the most inconvenient time would be for them to kid tonight. lol


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## bloonskiller911 (Oct 23, 2015)

going off of what my have looked like before I think you have some time, probably 2-3 weeks. there is no udder development that I see and their rear-ends still look pretty tight. also no one looks like the have dropped down, where the baby is laying low.  good luck though. and keep us updated.


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## KellyK (Oct 31, 2015)

LIke I have said they are holding out for Christmas. Still no babies.


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## KellyK (Jan 7, 2016)

Still waiting on kids. One being extra needy and screaming for me all of the time. She we are sure is going to kid soon.


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2016)

WOW, you really called it and then some!



Fernie said:


> LIke I have said they are holding out for Christmas. Still no babies.



OK, so they won! Tell them they can spit those kids any time now! This gives all new meaning to the term "doe code!" Tell Sophia, Queenie and Grace that their admirers are getting impatient!


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## KellyK (Jan 10, 2016)

Queenie was the first to go. She has had one while I was kidnapped to go shopping. She just could not let me be there for the big moment


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 10, 2016)

congrats!!


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## KellyK (Jan 10, 2016)

Thank you and now if the others would give up and have theirs' that would be great.


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## luvmypets (Jan 10, 2016)

Congratulations!


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## Baymule (Jan 10, 2016)

What  a cutie!!!


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## KellyK (Jan 10, 2016)

We will check tomorrow to see if it is a boy or a girl.


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## norseofcourse (Jan 10, 2016)

Woohoo - congrats!


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## Latestarter (Jan 10, 2016)

YAY!!! What a beaut! Grats!


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## KellyK (Jan 11, 2016)

And it is a BOY!


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## Latestarter (Jan 11, 2016)

So sorry... most want does. But he's handsome!


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## KellyK (Jan 11, 2016)

Boy girl. We just want healthy.


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## animalmom (Jan 11, 2016)

Good attitude @Fernie!


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 11, 2016)

Congrats! Even if its a little late LOL

He is a cutie!


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## KellyK (Jan 11, 2016)

I have 5 boys and most of the cats are male. Only time we have more females than males is the chickens, rabbits and dogs. lol


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## KellyK (Jan 11, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> Congrats! Even if its a little late LOL
> 
> He is a cutie!




Thank you. He is sweet as can be. And he loves us more than mama. He may be dame raised but he loves to snuggle into us. Might be the negative temps we are having atm.


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## KellyK (Jan 12, 2016)

Thank you, both. Guess I should update the goat count.


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## Mini Horses (Jan 12, 2016)

Awwwh....so cute.   I hope to be cuddling new kids in about 2 weeks!   Love those babies!   BUT  I check those butts before they are even dry!   Just gotta know boy/girl.      Either sex is okay with a healthy kid, safe delivery -- but too curious to wait!

Sounds like you should have more anytime now.  Congrats.


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## KellyK (Jan 16, 2016)

The husband is convinced he will have to take me away for a weekend to get the others to kid.


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## KellyK (Jan 17, 2016)

We have more babies arriving. 3 so far from Daisy and it looks like another one is coming. She has yet to reject any of them. Has been cleaning and grooming and if they make a peep she investigates. Smallest one I put a goat sweater on. Looks to be 2 girls and a boy. 

Oh and we were wrong the first one was a girl. Both of us swore it was a boy, but apparently we have a girl. Keeping our fingers crossed that we have more soon. 


Will post pictures as soon as my internet lets them up load from my phone.


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## luvmypets (Jan 17, 2016)

Congrats! Don't forget pictures! LOTS of pictures


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## KellyK (Jan 17, 2016)

luvmypets said:


> Congrats! Don't forget pictures! LOTS of pictures




Like anybody here would let me forget for very long. lol


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## KellyK (Jan 17, 2016)

Here they are


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 17, 2016)

Congrats!!


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## Latestarter (Jan 17, 2016)

That is AWESOME!!   Congrats! More girls than boys!!  And mom is doing just right by/for the kids also.  Thanks for the update and the pics!


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## KellyK (Jan 17, 2016)

We were not really caring about boys or girls. We want healthy kids more than anything else. 

Mom has had kids before so we knew she would do good by them. Or at least the best she could with them. I will be going out every few hours over night to check on them. Until they make it a few days I will be out there every few hours to check on them.


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## KellyK (Jan 18, 2016)

We have one that we are trying to bottle feed. She does not like the bottle, but has tried to nurse off me. Nobody told me that was a possibility. She is stronger than when I brought her inside last night. Her cries have gotten louder and she is up more. 

Not sure if I should just bottle feed her or try to see if Mama will take her back.


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## Latestarter (Jan 18, 2016)

You could always try to put her with mom. If that doesn't work, you should try to milk some colostrum from mom so baby gets the good stuff to start out with.


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## KellyK (Jan 18, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> You could always try to put her with mom. If that doesn't work, you should try to milk some colostrum from mom so baby gets the good stuff to start out with.




We did that last night. Plus I got a bag of the Goat Kid Colostrum. When my husband gets home we may just take her out to see if Mom will take her. Just she was very weak last night and I wanted to give her a bit more attention to see if we could get her a bit stronger. Also did not help that Mom was laying on her when I went out last night. Not sure if she had been nursing and mom laid down not realizing she was there or if Mom is rejecting her.


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