# Worryingly Lethargic Goat



## Lanthanum

My girl Addy is acting VERY strangely. Starting a few days ago she has been very slow to react, and almost like she doesn't know what's going on. She usually is very jumpy when any human gets close but she has been doing things like standing or laying in the same place for almost hours on end, and I've been sure to feed her separately from the others but I am still VERY worried. Can someone please tell me what this is??


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## ragdollcatlady

I would suggest a call to your local vet. As much as we can try to help you figure it out, lethargic goats can have a small window of time to sort things out before it is too late. 

That said, lets see if we can help narrow down some things....Could she have gotten into something toxic? Certain plants or chicken feed?.... Has she been checked for worms or coccidia? Anemia can cause lethargic symptoms and can be caused by heavy worm infestations.... Is she eating and drinking? Pooping and peeing normally?... Is hertemp high or low?...  What is her normal diet?... Is she pregnant?... Could she be in pain from an injury or something along those lines? ... Is she able to move and get around on her own?


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## Lanthanum

ragdollcatlady said:


> I would suggest a call to your local vet. As much as we can try to help you figure it out, lethargic goats can have a small window of time to sort things out before it is too late.
> 
> That said, lets see if we can help narrow down some things....Could she have gotten into something toxic? Certain plants or chicken feed?.... Has she been checked for worms or coccidia? Anemia can cause lethargic symptoms and can be caused by heavy worm infestations.... Is she eating and drinking? Pooping and peeing normally?... Is hertemp high or low?...  What is her normal diet?... Is she pregnant?... Could she be in pain from an injury or something along those lines? ... Is she able to move and get around on her own?


A small amount of chicken feed could've been consumed yes but not a huge amount. No one has been checked for worms because everyone seems fine. She is eating small amounts at a time and is drinking A LOT. I haven't been with her enough recently to know if she's been passing correctly either, and I don't own a goat thermometer. All the goats diet is the same, which is a half scoop of sweet feed a day, (about a cup each) and a day out in the yard once a week. As far as I know she is not pregnant, and that possibility is extremely slim. The other goats have been headbutting her when she tries to eat but I seperate them during eating time. Maybe she got headbutt too hard? She is able to move independently but it is very slow when she does and when she lays down she never wants to get up. I can even get close enough to pet her and she won't budge, she just looks like she wants to but can't. She also turns her head really slow when a noise is made and her head when she is laying down is always tilted slighty back. I went out there this morning and everyone came running except her, and she was laying down in the shelter so I called her name and she very slowly just turned her head to look where the noise was coming from. She is also pretty..uh..Stupid. Doesn't know how to go through the gate even when I lead her to it, doesn't understand why she can't go through the fence, etc etc.


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## alsea1

From what you are stating it sounds like she may be having a neurological problem. What is causing that can be hard to figure out.  
I'm thinking a vet checkup and a fecal for starters. Blood workup as well.
Goats in the same herd can indeed have different parasite load levels. 
Any thermometer will work. 
As mentioned already, by the time you are noticing illness in your goat you have a narrow time span to get it figured out and treatment begun in order to have a positive outcome.
I have found that it is a good idea to have the vet out when I am confronted with a sick animal. I have learned alot over the years from vet consults.


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## Lanthanum

I don't have any money to get her to the vet, sadly, at least not anytime soon. Is there ANYTHING else that can be done?


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## alsea1

Start by getting her temp. Use any thermometer. 
Check her hydration level. Pull a piece of skin away and let go. If it snaps right back she is okay. If it does not she is dehydrated and needs fluids.
Check the inside of her lower eyelid. This should be a nice red pink. If it is pale this indicates anemia. Then you would need to figure out why is she anemic. The usual cause is a parasite load. But not always.
Without more to go on suggesting any treatment would likely be a unfruitful.


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## CLSranch

With no vet money I'd start with (after following Alsea's directions) a good worming and electrolytes in her water. Don't let her have any other water. If it's been a while over 3-4 months it wouldn't hurt to worm everybody.


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## CLSranch

Try Goat Vet Corner on face book. I don't face book but just heard about it on BYC. Questions answered by various vets and no vet bill.


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## Southern by choice

Lanthanum said:


> No one has been checked for worms because everyone seems fine.



If I recall you were told a long time ago about worms, having a fecal done and all the reasons why. This is almost a standard post given by many people to all newcomers to goats. 

This may sound gruff but really there is no excuse. The issue is *not* "they seem fine" because the reality is* by the time they "DON'T seem fine" they are on deaths door* usually.
If this is indeed from parasites, even if you deworm, if the load is high then the treatment alone could kill the goat. 
If your goats eyes do not look like this or close to it then she has blood sucking parasites that suck the blood cause anemia and results in death.

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/how-are-those-inner-eyelids-using-famacha.35248/

There are many reasons the goat could be off... mineral deficiency, listeria, parasites, nutritional deficiency.
The VERY FIRST PLACE TO START IS A FECAL!


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## Latestarter

I may be speaking out of turn here, but from what you describe it almost sounds like goat polio to me. Maybe not a full blown case but mild and degenerating. If this is the case, she needs thiamine... soon.
http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0065/UNP-0065.pdf

ETA: It is NEVER a good idea to just "worm everybody" as this is a major reason why we now have worms that have evolved and no longer die with certain drugs. You should always determine IF there is a worm problem first and if so, then narrow it down to what worms are causing the issue. Then follow recommended dosages and application requirements for the specified drugs to deal with that particular parasite. All goats are going to have worms. Some handle it better than others and it's not an issue. Others don't handle it and are always needing to be wormed, and those animals should be culled.


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## Green Acres Farm

Latestarter said:


> I may be speaking out of turn here, but from what you describe it almost sounds like goat polio to me. Maybe not a full blown case but mild and degenerating. If this is the case, she needs thiamine... soon.
> http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0065/UNP-0065.pdf
> 
> ETA: It is NEVER a good idea to just "worm everybody" as this is a major reason why we now have worms that have evolved and no longer die with certain drugs. You should always determine IF there is a worm problem first and if so, then narrow it down to what worms are causing the issue. Then follow recommended dosages and application requirements for the specified drugs to deal with that particular parasite. All goats are going to have worms. Some handle it better than others and it's not an issue. Others don't handle it and are always needing to be wormed, and those animals should be culled.


Or listeria. Symptoms are the same, but polio is more common in kids and listeria is more common in adults.


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## Latestarter

Yes, good point... The goat polio documentation says equally juvenile and adult... But Listeriosis can mimic it... so how to know which is which?  "GOAT POLIO OR LISTERIOSIS? Different Causes, Similar Symptoms, Similar Treatments"  http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html


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## Goat Whisperer

Lanthanum said:


> My girl Addy is acting VERY strangely. Starting a few days ago she has been very slow to react, and almost like she doesn't know what's going on. She usually is very jumpy when any human gets close but she has been doing things like standing or laying in the same place for almost hours on end, and I've been sure to feed her separately from the others but I am still VERY worried. Can someone please tell me what this is??





Lanthanum said:


> A small amount of chicken feed could've been consumed yes but not a huge amount. No one has been checked for worms because everyone seems fine. She is eating small amounts at a time and is drinking A LOT. I haven't been with her enough recently to know if she's been passing correctly either, and I don't own a goat thermometer. All the goats diet is the same, which is a half scoop of sweet feed a day, (about a cup each) and a day out in the yard once a week. As far as I know she is not pregnant, and that possibility is extremely slim. The other goats have been headbutting her when she tries to eat but I seperate them during eating time. Maybe she got headbutt too hard? She is able to move independently but it is very slow when she does and when she lays down she never wants to get up. I can even get close enough to pet her and she won't budge, she just looks like she wants to but can't. She also turns her head really slow when a noise is made and her head when she is laying down is always tilted slighty back. I went out there this morning and everyone came running except her, and she was laying down in the shelter so I called her name and she very slowly just turned her head to look where the noise was coming from. She is also pretty..uh..Stupid. Doesn't know how to go through the gate even when I lead her to it, doesn't understand why she can't go through the fence, etc etc.



Not enough data to really say what this is. Could be many things at this point. Could be listeria, polio, m worm (doesn't really sound like it, but not much info has been posted). 
She could have a raging infection causing her to act so lethargic. Could be an injury. She could be riddled with parasites, causing these issues. Could be she IS bred and has dead kids…  many, many things. 

We cannot help if you can't even take her temperature. You can get human digital thermometers very cheap.  
How are her eyelids?

You haven't mentioned anything about her body condition. How does she look?  

I have a hard time saying what I think it is. Not enough information, and if more cannot be provided we simply can't help.


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## Goat Whisperer

Latestarter said:


> Yes, good point... The goat polio documentation says equally juvenile and adult... But Listeriosis can mimic it... so how to know which is which?  "GOAT POLIO OR LISTERIOSIS? Different Causes, Similar Symptoms, Similar Treatments"  http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/listeriosis.html


It really depends on what "documentation" you read. 

Truthfully, when dealing with a polio or listeria, you don't really know. Having dealt with this personally, you don't wait around.


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## alsea1

If you have livestock you will need a vet at some point.  No matter how well you take care of the animals there will come a time when you have to call in a professional.  Especially now that some things can no longer be obtained without a prescription.
It is wise to put away some cash in a savings account that is ear marked for the vet. You can just about figure approx. $150.00 per event. So for typical farm stuff your account needs to get built up to $500.00 or so more if at all possible.  This way you can be proactive and bury fewer animals.
There is a wealth of knowledge online so use it to your advantage. Study up on things so you can do your job as herd manager effectively.


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## norseofcourse

@Lanthanum how is she doing?  And the others?


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## samssimonsays

Hope she has improved. 

We have a special credit card (carecredit) specifically for major vet bills for this reason. The unknown. two weeks after getting it as a "just in case" we had a major health crisis with my then 9 year cat and it came in handy when he was hospitalized for 3 days. I am one who is "against" leaving out of our means and off credit but for an emergency it has been a huge help in case something else has happened to drain the savings and we haven't saved enough up to replace it.


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## alsea1

Care Credit has helped us help our dog not once but twice.


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## Lanthanum

I have been watching her condition and she seems to be doing better but not entirely, "all there". She still kind of aimlessly wandering around and is losing a bit of her appetite. However her head is no longer hanging and her overall physical condition is seeming better. Not sure about mental though. Could she be depressed?


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## Lanthanum

norseofcourse said:


> @Lanthanum how is she doing?  And the others?


I just posted her condition, and the others are doing fine. Bonnie is being a great mamma (this is her third baby, second living one) and she is nursing her when she needs it and coming when called. Scout seems great mentally and she is seeming like her normal bouncy self. However her vulva is very swollen and it looks kinda painful. Doesn't seem to bother her though. And of course the boys are fine, after all they weren't the one's that just gave birth haha


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## norseofcourse

Glad Bonnie and her kid are doing well!  Do you know Bonnie's vaccination history?  The kid should have a CDT shot at about 6 to 8 weeks, then another 2 to 4 weeks later.  If you don't know if Bonnie's ever been vaccinated, she'll need a series of 2 shots as well (if she was vaccinated, one shot yearly, ideally a month before kidding, would be good).

Addy losing her appetite would worry me.  Livestock seldom gets 'depressed' in the way we think of it.  Physical symptoms almost always have a physical cause.  Did you ever get a temperature on her?  What color are the insides of her lower eyelids? (light or pale pink tells you she's anemic).  How is her weight?  We'd love to see a picture of her.

I hope Scout feels better soon.  Did you ever get a temperature on her?  Did she pass the placenta?  If she didn't she could have infection starting in there.  Please keep a close eye on her, it can go toxic quickly.  An untreated retained placenta can make it hard or impossible for her to get pregnant and kid again.

I know you love your goats, I'm sorry you're having troubles like this.


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## Lanthanum

norseofcourse said:


> Glad Bonnie and her kid are doing well!  Do you know Bonnie's vaccination history?  The kid should have a CDT shot at about 6 to 8 weeks, then another 2 to 4 weeks later.  If you don't know if Bonnie's ever been vaccinated, she'll need a series of 2 shots as well (if she was vaccinated, one shot yearly, ideally a month before kidding, would be good).
> 
> Addy losing her appetite would worry me.  Livestock seldom gets 'depressed' in the way we think of it.  Physical symptoms almost always have a physical cause.  Did you ever get a temperature on her?  What color are the insides of her lower eyelids? (light or pale pink tells you she's anemic).  How is her weight?  We'd love to see a picture of her.
> 
> I hope Scout feels better soon.  Did you ever get a temperature on her?  Did she pass the placenta?  If she didn't she could have infection starting in there.  Please keep a close eye on her, it can go toxic quickly.  An untreated retained placenta can make it hard or impossible for her to get pregnant and kid again.
> 
> I know you love your goats, I'm sorry you're having troubles like this.


I've had Bonnie since she was a few months old, and she is 5 and 1/2 now. Never been vaccinated but I'm supposed to be able to get eveyone in shortly. 

I am still very confused as if Addy is getting better or worse. She is eating but only whenever I feed her away from the others and if I set it right in front of her. I haven't been able to get close enough to check her in any of those ways but I've been working on it I promise. I wish for the best health in all of them. 

As for Scout, I tried to see if she had any milk in her udders but there was none, not even a few hours after birth. Is this because it was a premature baby? (The baby was born half the size of Nonna and hooves weren't even formed properly yet) I checked all around the pen the day after and saw a huge wet/bloody spot inside their shelter but there was no placenta. Perhaps she ate it? And she seemed to have stopped trying to push and was seemingly more full of energy. I have been watching her as much as I can though. Everything seems normal as of right now


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