# Snuffles (Pasteurellosis)



## Heartlandrabbitry (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm looking to see if anyone has dealt with this disease before? None of my rabbits have (thank goodness) but I was wondering is it contagious when no rabbit show signs? Could they get it from being in the same room? I took my rabbits to a show this past weekend and found out from a friend of mine that she took a rabbit that just showed signs of Snuffles the following days... now I'm not 100% sure if my rabbits were in the same judging holes as her but is it possible that they could catch it now? I read that it can be passed threw clothing... she was holding some of my rabbits and typing them. What kind of makes me mad is she knew that the rabbit was sick... but never showed any signs so she thought it was ok to bring the rabbit? 

I'm just worried now that my rabbits could have it now. Does anyone know how long it takes to how signs? I check my rabbits each day to make sure they have no discharge and/or runny noses. Thank you for any possible help!


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## Mea (Nov 4, 2010)

Oh-boy.   What a not so great position to be in !   

  Snuffles is Very contagious.  We lost a good many animals to it years back, because a breeder / exhibitor in the breed we raised,  put rabbits on the table that had it.  The exhibitor actually wiped the rabbits noses off just before putting them on the table !   The judge said nothing... and handled each rabbit... checking teeth ect. right down the line.   The aftermath was not something i ever want to go thru again!

   I am not certain what the incubation peruod is, and can only suggest that You keep checking noses and front legs.  Some animals may not even show symptoms until they are under stressful situations.


  I had really hoped that, during our 15 year hiatus from rabbits,  that  either an actual Cure would have been found, or that people would wise-up and cull out affected animals !


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## Heartlandrabbitry (Nov 4, 2010)

Mea said:
			
		

> Oh-boy.   What a not so great position to be in !
> 
> Snuffles is Very contagious.  We lost a good many animals to it years back, because a breeder / exhibitor in the breed we raised,  put rabbits on the table that had it.  The exhibitor actually wiped the rabbits noses off just before putting them on the table !   The judge said nothing... and handled each rabbit... checking teeth ect. right down the line.   The aftermath was not something i ever want to go thru again!
> 
> ...


What just eats at me the most is that she knew!!!  
I'll just keep a very close eye on everyone! I was thinking about taking them to a show this next month but I may not, most likely just stress them out... thank you for your reply!


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## Mea (Nov 5, 2010)

If the rabbit did not show symptoms until after the show... maybe she did not know  ?  Perhaps that animal picked it up at the show ??


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## Heartlandrabbitry (Nov 5, 2010)

Mea said:
			
		

> If the rabbit did not show symptoms until after the show... maybe she did not know  ?  Perhaps that animal picked it up at the show ??


Oh no, she knew. She told me that she put the doe in with a buck that she knew was sick in the quarantine room. That's how the doe got sick. She is even selling the doe now!


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## Mea (Nov 5, 2010)

Heartlandrabbitry said:
			
		

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   (so at a loss for words !)


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## Heartlandrabbitry (Nov 5, 2010)

Mea said:
			
		

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I know, I'm speechless too....
What's weird is the same exact thing happen to her and her friend. They brought a few ND's back from Californian and killed about 20 of their herd... and now look what she is doing? I'm speechless


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## CYGChickies (Aug 11, 2011)

So what is the deal with Snuffles? Is it curable? We had a doe sneezing and looked to have a wet face so we moved her in and did a full course of antibiotics from the vet. She has been inside for two + weeks. Is she cured? Is she contagious? The vet said she should be fine now but I don't want to breed her or infect the others if she's contagious! But she's been in a carrying cage for two weeks and I have dwarves to move inside. Help!

CYG


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## Mea (Aug 11, 2011)

CYGChickies said:
			
		

> So what is the deal with Snuffles? Is it curable? We had a doe sneezing and looked to have a wet face so we moved her in and did a full course of antibiotics from the vet. She has been inside for two + weeks. Is she cured? Is she contagious? The vet said she should be fine now but I don't want to breed her or infect the others if she's contagious! But she's been in a carrying cage for two weeks and I have dwarves to move inside. Help!
> 
> CYG


My understanding of snuffles..... is the only way to be positive it is snuffles or some other respiratory sickness it to have a nasal culture done. ( Not cheap btw.)  Then the vet can prescribe the correct treatment for it.  Actual snuffles has a very low 'cure' rate and a high incidence of reoccuring in stressful situations.

  There are other things besides snuffles that can cause sneezing...dust, pollen ( like humans with that)  hay molds.  Clear mucous might Not be snuffles... usually White mucous is.

  Hoping for the best for you.


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## CYGChickies (Aug 11, 2011)

I have no clue if it was white or clear since she's white. She didn't seem to ever have any mucus on her paws or more than just a tiny line of it on her nostrils. I'd be sad to get rid of her but that'd be better than spreading it. Ugh my vet is gone until Monday. I guess I'll have to keep her in the empty barn until I know for sure to keep the new inside rabbits that are coming this weekend safe.

CYG


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## M.R. Lops (Aug 11, 2011)

It is very contagious.  Form what I've read about it, the germ is always in the nose, but Snuffles is when it gets out of control.  Usually they will have thick yellow mucus on their paws and nose.  Some rabbits will carry it, but will never show signs of the disease.


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## manybirds (Aug 11, 2011)

Heartlandrabbitry said:
			
		

> I'm looking to see if anyone has dealt with this disease before? None of my rabbits have (thank goodness) but I was wondering is it contagious when no rabbit show signs? Could they get it from being in the same room? I took my rabbits to a show this past weekend and found out from a friend of mine that she took a rabbit that just showed signs of Snuffles the following days... now I'm not 100% sure if my rabbits were in the same judging holes as her but is it possible that they could catch it now? I read that it can be passed threw clothing... she was holding some of my rabbits and typing them. What kind of makes me mad is she knew that the rabbit was sick... but never showed any signs so she thought it was ok to bring the rabbit?
> 
> I'm just worried now that my rabbits could have it now. Does anyone know how long it takes to how signs? I check my rabbits each day to make sure they have no discharge and/or runny noses. Thank you for any possible help!


snuffles is kind of a loose term, it can refer to any runny nosed disease. the true snuffles is not good though. I think (not posotive) it can be deadly. We have never experianced it. it is extremely contagious. look for runny nose and eyes any labored or noisy breathing. sluggishness you know just basicly signs of sickness


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## Ms. Research (Aug 11, 2011)

I found this past thread.

Really informative about snuffles and could help thanks to the person who took the time to post this previously.  

Hope this helps.   Well Wishes from New Jersey. 


Snuffles-
SNUFFLES is an advanced case of severe bacteriological respiratory invasion. It is a permanent bad cold, put in human terms. It will never go away as the bacterium that causes it lodges in the nasal/sinus bones of the rabbit, where it cannot be eradicated with antibiotics (enough to do so would kill the rabbit). Symptoms include any or all of the following that REAPPEAR ON A REGULAR (every 4 - 6 months) basis: sneezing, watery eyes, runny nose, and nasal thick mucus discharge. The symptoms will become more severe as the rabbit experiences stress. The bacterium that is commonly the culprit is Pasteurella Multocida, although other bacteria can trigger "colds". Once the P. Multocida organism has a firm hold in the rabbit's system, and it reigns unchecked, then the rabbit simply loses vitality and slowly fades away. Snuffles can be around a LONG time, and is considered, like AIDS in humans or Feline Leukemia in cats, a chronic condition. While the rabbit is "fading", which can takes years, he is prone to other things cropping up: abscesses on the body (feet and genitals); pneumonia; wry neck (dizziness and crooked posture) and other assorted ills.

There are any number of reasons why a rabbit sneezes, and while only one of them is from a bacterial invasion causing a respiratory response, one has no way of knowing by looking at the rabbit. Finding out what is going on with your sneezing rabbit takes a LONG time. Sneezing spreads large colonies of P. Multocida, as well as Bordatella, another culprit in Snuffles. If you have other rabbits, it is a good idea to quarantine your sneezer and take precautions to lessen the chance of infecting another rabbit.

Snuffles takes a long time to fully develop. In the meantime you have fleeting sneezing/discharge symptoms that crop up when stress occurs. Stress can be excess fright, excess heat, excess cold, excess wind, and excess ammonia from urine, breeding and lactation. These symptoms do NOT have to develop into Snuffles IF, and this is a big if, your rabbit possesses a strong immune system, and you work quickly to make him more comfortable and calm.

The first time you see any sneezing/nose dripping/eyes watering you should IMMEDATELY (and not tomorrow):
1. Separate bunny from the others. 20 feet minimum. There is some evidence that 10 feet is enough.
2. Bleach all cages and food/water bowls within 10 feet of where bunny was.
3. Set up a separate food source for bunny's feed. Feed the sneezer LAST and change your clothes/wash your hands before you visit another rabbit. Never feed your other rabbits from this food source.
4. Put water soluble Terramycin 343 in his drinking water. This needs to be mixed fresh daily and used for at least 2 weeks, or a full 7 days past any sneezing. If this is not available, use VetRx for Rabbits (herbal mixture that is FABULOUS for stress). I sell it here at Countrywool.
5. Consider using ophthalmic eye ointments for drippy/runny eyes. Two that I keep on hand are Chloramphenicol and Erythromycin. Use one as prescribed by your vet for 2 days, and if the eye does not clear, use the other one.
6. For the full-bombing treatment of suspected bacteria, Enrofloxacin injectible (Baytril), used twice/day for 4 days, will divert the bacteria. Dosages are outlined in RABBIT PRODUCTION by McNitt, Patton, Lukefahr and Cheeke, or check with your vet.

I give each potentially breedable rabbit one chance to get over a sneezing attack. If it goes away with minimal fuss (VetRx in the water and more attention to a calm environment) and stays away for a full 12 months, then the rabbit has, in all probability, a good immune system that is taking care of little negative bacterial invaders well. After all, anyone can sneeze from dust and allergies, and sometimes it takes bacteria triggering the immune system for the body to resist the bacteria, with a week of sneezing as it copes. But, rabbits that need this kind of treatment to STAY symptom free should never, and I repeat, never, be bred. You are diluting the possibility of a healthy and strong immune system for future generations.

So, new rabbits get quarantined for a full 6 weeks before they are mingled with your herd. Rabbits to be considered for breeding should be observed for a full 12 months, through a year of changing seasons and conditions, to see how their immune system is coping. Rabbits that show signs of developing Snuffles should be considered pet quality and kept away from other rabbits and breeding stock. But, after all is said and done, I have known pet rabbits with Snuffles who lived until the age of 6 when kept inside and treated carefully when a "cold" surfaced. So, single bunny pet owners can offer a fine life to a Snuffly bunny.


http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2085


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## CYGChickies (Aug 12, 2011)

Ok so how expensive is a test for this bacteria Pasteurellosis? I don't want to kill her if she can have a happy pet life. Also how do I go about convincing people to take a rabbit with a chronic disease? I'd rather get her tested since she's got a great personality and would be a good brood doe as far as I can tell now, but reality does have to set in and I can only spend so much on a test.

Thanks for the advice and apologies to the OP for sort of taking over. I thought it would be better than adding a separate thread about the same-ish subject.

CYG


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## Mea (Aug 12, 2011)

CYGChickies said:
			
		

> Ok so how expensive is a test for this bacteria Pasteurellosis? I don't want to kill her if she can have a happy pet life. Also how do I go about convincing people to take a rabbit with a chronic disease? I'd rather get her tested since she's got a great personality and would be a good brood doe as far as I can tell now, but reality does have to set in and I can only spend so much on a test.
> 
> Thanks for the advice and apologies to the OP for sort of taking over. I thought it would be better than adding a separate thread about the same-ish subject.
> 
> CYG


You would need to check with Your vet... or a veterinary college ( this one might be cheaper)  as prices will vary.   ( again it is not cheap... i've heard people paying close to $200 for the test.)


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## M.R. Lops (Aug 12, 2011)

CYGChickies said:
			
		

> Ok so how expensive is a test for this bacteria Pasteurellosis? I don't want to kill her if she can have a happy pet life. Also how do I go about convincing people to take a rabbit with a chronic disease? I'd rather get her tested since she's got a great personality and would be a good brood doe as far as I can tell now, but reality does have to set in and I can only spend so much on a test.
> 
> Thanks for the advice and apologies to the OP for sort of taking over. I thought it would be better than adding a separate thread about the same-ish subject.
> 
> CYG


Over 70$.  I had a rabbit that had snuffles, he was kept outside in a hutch far away from my other rabbits though.  His nose was always clogged up and he could hardly breathe, his paws had yellow crust on them from wiping his nose.  He was the sweetest rabbit ever, but I hardly handled him because I knew he had Snuffles and I feared my good Show and Breeding rabbits would get it from him.  That winter though, at 5 months old, he passed away.  I think since his nose was always runny, the moisture in his nose froze and caused him to get too cold and freeze to death.  But, not sure on the cause.  I had another rabbit outside also in a hutch and he was just fine that winter.  I get the bunny from a family in our 4-H club and the mother the said seemed to sniff a lot and they said she had allergies, but none of their other rabbit had it.  So, I'm not sure how their other rabbits ended up not getting it, but it is very contagious.


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## CYGChickies (Aug 13, 2011)

Well this doe can breathe, isn't crusty and never--that we saw--had colored discharge. She's active and friendly as well. I have since consulted another veterinarian and he told me--like the other vet--that the antibiotics will have taken care of it and she's not contagious. It's a little discouraging how impossible it is to get a fact about "Snuffles" without finding anther fact that says the exact opposite. Vets need to get together and write something up about this or something. Anyway she's moving back outside tomorrow and if she's sneeze-free in two weeks then I'm considering it over. I'm betting that she just had a cold since her symptoms were nowhere near as severe as the stories--and horrible images--I've seen of Pasteurellosis. 

Thanks to everybody for the advice and wish me luck! 

CYG


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## dewey (Aug 13, 2011)

CYGChickies said:
			
		

> Well this doe can breathe, isn't crusty and never--that we saw--had colored discharge. She's active and friendly as well. I have since consulted another veterinarian and he told me--like the other vet--that the antibiotics will have taken care of it and she's not contagious. It's a little discouraging how impossible it is to get a fact about "Snuffles" without finding anther fact that says the exact opposite. Vets need to get together and write something up about this or something. Anyway she's moving back outside tomorrow and if she's sneeze-free in two weeks then I'm considering it over. I'm betting that she just had a cold since her symptoms were nowhere near as severe as the stories--and horrible images--I've seen of Pasteurellosis.
> 
> Thanks to everybody for the advice and wish me luck!
> 
> CYG


Rabbits do not get "colds" in that sense.  Unless the rabbit was tested for the specific cause it's unlikely the vet would know which strain it was and how to target treat it.

It's believed that all rabbits have been exposed to it and/or harbor it, so dispatching those with mild outward symptoms is not always the right answer.  Those with stronger immune systems may never show any outward symptoms and can pass that resistance on to their surviving kits, others may only show mild symptoms, if at all, that never progress to the status of the severe cases and surviving kits from their litters will have a good resistance to it as will their offspring...eventually leading to a resistant herd.  

I'd think that those with severe symptoms (constant back to back bouts, colored discharge, etc.) are best removed from the herd since their outcome is never favorable.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 13, 2011)

dewey said:
			
		

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X2


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## CYGChickies (Aug 13, 2011)

I've read that and then the next thing I'll read will say there is no cure, almost nonexhistant treatment success and it will always be passed on to kits and make them sick. That's what I mean by conflicting information, and seriously the veterinarians are both respected with farm/meat animals--including rabbits. They both gave me advice with the idea that the rabbit had the worst form of snuffles and considering how many other animals I've had treated successfully by both of them I'm taking their advice. 

I don't believe she ever had this Pasteurellosis. Maybe they aren't called "colds" but I've read dozens of other things that make a rabbit sneeze and have extremely minimal nasal discharge (as in next to none). I don't think my other rabbits are in danger because a rabbit who came from the same breeder as her is in very good health, has never sneezed once in all the time we've had them; none of the others--all of which were within ten feet of my "sneezing doe" for more than a month--are showing symptoms. It has been two weeks since we quarantined her and no one is sneezing even now. She is very young--two of her hutch neighbors are barely 8 weeks old--and none of them are over 4 months, so symptoms would likely be popping up in the young rabbits quicker especially since one of the 2-month rabbits escaped and was chased around the yard for hours and never sneezed--I think chasing her around like that was stressing enough to give ME snuffles much less the rabbit. 

I am very new to rabbits and I think that every little change in the wind has me paranoid, but I believe that my rabbit had allergies/a cold/etc etc and is fine now. If my entire herd gets snuffles I guess I will have learned my lesson but I don't believe that will be the case. Hopefully some of you are right and this is just something all rabbits have in a dormant form and there's no reason to go killing every sneezing rabbit on my property--though there's been only one lol.

Thanks again

CYG


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## Ms. Research (Aug 13, 2011)

CYGChickies said:
			
		

> I've read that and then the next thing I'll read will say there is no cure, almost nonexhistant treatment success and it will always be passed on to kits and make them sick. That's what I mean by conflicting information, and seriously the veterinarians are both respected with farm/meat animals--including rabbits. They both gave me advice with the idea that the rabbit had the worst form of snuffles and considering how many other animals I've had treated successfully by both of them I'm taking their advice.
> 
> I don't believe she ever had this Pasteurellosis. Maybe they aren't called "colds" but I've read dozens of other things that make a rabbit sneeze and have extremely minimal nasal discharge (as in next to none). I don't think my other rabbits are in danger because a rabbit who came from the same breeder as her is in very good health, has never sneezed once in all the time we've had them; none of the others--all of which were within ten feet of my "sneezing doe" for more than a month--are showing symptoms. It has been two weeks since we quarantined her and no one is sneezing even now. She is very young--two of her hutch neighbors are barely 8 weeks old--and none of them are over 4 months, so symptoms would likely be popping up in the young rabbits quicker especially since one of the 2-month rabbits escaped and was chased around the yard for hours and never sneezed--I think chasing her around like that was stressing enough to give ME snuffles much less the rabbit.
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I am New to rabbits too and yes with conflicting information I would be a little paranoid too.   Taking the vets advise was wise, but sometimes they can be a little off as well.   Lots of unknowns in rabbits.  But it's not just rabbits.  Reading all the goat information, there are a lot of conflicting information there as well.   Along with sheep, cows, horses, etc.  

The air has been getting worse over time.  More and more people are coming down with allergies that never had them before.  Now just think what the animals are going through.  They are affected as well.  My 12 year old dog started with allergies at 5.  Have been giving him benadryl as prescribed by his vet to help with the ichy eyes and ears.  Along with the sneezing.   I had to do something because when he sneezed, he sneezed so hard he constantly was hitting his nose on the floor.  

Snuffles is contagious and is life threatening.  Unfortunately allergies show the same symptoms sometimes.  It's really hard to tell.  But I would have done the same thing as you.  

Hope all stays well.


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## Mea (Aug 13, 2011)

CYGChickies said:
			
		

> I am very new to rabbits and I think that every little change in the wind has me paranoid, but I believe that my rabbit had allergies/a cold/etc etc and is fine now. If my entire herd gets snuffles I guess I will have learned my lesson but I don't believe that will be the case. Hopefully some of you are right and this is just something all rabbits have in a dormant form and there's no reason to go killing every sneezing rabbit on my property--though there's been only one lol.
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> CYG


Welcome to 'Paranoia Land'  !  lol.     With fluctuating weather...Hot and uggy one day Cool and windy the next... i get panicy at any 'odd' sound in the barn !!   ( including the weird noise my boot started making ! )

  Not every sneeze is snuffles.     Yes... studies have shown that about 99% of rabbits carry some form of pastueralla in their sinuses.  Those with strong immune systems will keep it in check.  Those that are not so strong might show symptoms ranging from mild to deadly.  However the virulant form of pastueralla 'usually' kills the rabbit quickly...within a matter of days.       

  On another group a poster was talking about a rabbit sneezing so violently.  They were about to put the rabbit down... when she sneezed out a seed of some sort !   Never sneezed again.  So i would think dust could do similar things.

  Good Lick.


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## dewey (Aug 14, 2011)

CYGChickies said:
			
		

> I've read that and then the next thing I'll read will say there is no cure, almost nonexhistant treatment success and it will always be passed on to kits and make them sick.
> 
> _*Depending on the strain, most research suggests that it is often something to be managed, never "cured", and although it will most likely be passed on to any offspring not all will become sick...those with strong immune systems seem to be resistant and thrive regardless, passing that immunity on to their own offspring...while others with weaker systems, even within the same litter, often perish at a younger age.*_
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## CYGChickies (Aug 14, 2011)

My vets didn't say she had the deadly form they treated it as if she did. They gave me information in a "worst case scenario" form. And yes there's a lot of conflicting information and yes I'm also done reading about it. I had another breeder confirm what I thought--that snuffles bacteria is present to some extent in every rabbit and just preys on those with weakened immune systems due to stress, age, etc. 

The general consensus that I'm siding with is that all rabbits have the bacteria capable of developing it but only weak rabbits have tendency to become seriously ill. I also will breed her at least once and see if her kits seem more healthy or less healthy. She is just a pet-quality breeder although since her mane isn't as full as I like but the buck she'll be with has perfect mane. If the kits have trouble then I'll retire her and relocate her to a family member who wants a pet rabbit just for a pet. That way if she continues getting sick I will still be buying medicines and ensuring her care rather than dumping her on someone who might not be able to handle something like that whether warned or not. 

Either way she'll be well taken care of and live a happy rabbit life. I haven't seen or heard a sneeze out of her or anyone else for over a week and I think if she had the serious virulent snuffles she'd be dead or at least worse by now.

Thank you everybody for the advice and encouragement.

CYG


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## Genipher (Oct 14, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

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It does seem like more and more people (and animals) are having allergy problems. Along with the environment, I wonder if it's what we're eating and what we're feeding our animals, that causes the allergies. Most of us (it seems) get as healthy of feed as we can get...but the GMO crap is sneaking its way in.
I've heard that a raw meat diet can keep dogs from getting allergies. Maybe even cure the allergies? I haven't totally researched it but I've heard some "rumors". Do you know anything about it?


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## Ms. Research (Oct 15, 2011)

Genipher said:
			
		

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I wish it was just the environment, but with the introduction of steriod injections to help growth (more meat) this also could be a factor.  And the food that we eat has those steriods in them.  That's why I want to be self sufficient.  I want to know what is in my animal.  I want to know what's in my vegetables and fruits.  You know this is just being noticed in the animal world.  Look what they are doing to our children with so many steriods.  It's really scary.  They will tell you about the bad parts of an athlete on steriods, but at the same time, give your child an injection that is steriod based.  This is also a factor which is NOT being addressed.  

Just last month, two infections that were steriod resistance popped up here and overseas.  Gee, isn't that wonderful.  They keep using these steriods at a whim thinking that's the answer.  Now take into account the steriods in your body, the steriods in your food, and whatnot in your water, no wonder we have allergies.  And the animals also.  

Don't know where we are heading but the more steriods you use, the less your body will be able to defend itself against.


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## Genipher (Oct 19, 2011)

I agree, Ms. Research.  Because of those very things I only buy meat that is "good" (bison, etc.) and "organic" fruits and veggies.  Same reason I wanted to raise meat rabbits. Eventually I want to get to a place (literally) where we can have our own milk cow, eggs, and fruits and veggies. I don't like not knowing what's in our food and I espeically don't want my kids eating things that could, potentially, cause cancer or obesity or ADD or...

I also find it frustrating that doctors and other health professionals don't know anything about herbs. I've been able to "cure" ear infections with onion juice and control my son's asthma with a bentanite clay mixture. I'm learning more and more and one day hope to never darken the door of a doctor's office again!


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## Ms. Research (Oct 20, 2011)

Genipher said:
			
		

> I agree, Ms. Research.  Because of those very things I only buy meat that is "good" (bison, etc.) and "organic" fruits and veggies.  Same reason I wanted to raise meat rabbits. Eventually I want to get to a place (literally) where we can have our own milk cow, eggs, and fruits and veggies. I don't like not knowing what's in our food and I espeically don't want my kids eating things that could, potentially, cause cancer or obesity or ADD or...
> 
> I also find it frustrating that doctors and other health professionals don't know anything about herbs. I've been able to "cure" ear infections with onion juice and control my son's asthma with a bentanite clay mixture. I'm learning more and more and one day hope to never darken the door of a doctor's office again!


When you have multi-trillion dollar pharmacuetial (sp?) companies throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars at Doctors to help pay off their education bills, it's hard to say no.  It's really a shame though that doctors have a price.  Know all about herbs.  Did wonders and still do with us.  There are though some things no drug or herb can stop.  

I'm with you on producing my own food.  Because you know what's in it.  And yes, lots of process foods have properties of cancer causing.  Just at a very small amount.   Just look at the recent reports on Children's Apple Juice.   And there are so many more, that we will not hear about.  Also the ADD you bring up.  Lots of coloring that brings on this in children.  But it's easy just to slip them a pill instead of watching their diet which IS a cure to ADD.  

I just don't get it.  Is it laziness or greed?


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## oneacrefarm (Oct 20, 2011)

M.R. Lops said:
			
		

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HE probably died of pneumonia. This a common secondary illness associated with pasteurella.


Shannon


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## oneacrefarm (Oct 20, 2011)

CYGChickies said:
			
		

> My vets didn't say she had the deadly form they treated it as if she did. They gave me information in a "worst case scenario" form. And yes there's a lot of conflicting information and yes I'm also done reading about it. I had another breeder confirm what I thought--that snuffles bacteria is present to some extent in every rabbit and just preys on those with weakened immune systems due to stress, age, etc.
> 
> The general consensus that I'm siding with is that all rabbits have the bacteria capable of developing it but only weak rabbits have tendency to become seriously ill. I also will breed her at least once and see if her kits seem more healthy or less healthy. She is just a pet-quality breeder although since her mane isn't as full as I like but the buck she'll be with has perfect mane. If the kits have trouble then I'll retire her and relocate her to a family member who wants a pet rabbit just for a pet. That way if she continues getting sick I will still be buying medicines and ensuring her care rather than dumping her on someone who might not be able to handle something like that whether warned or not.
> 
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CYG,

One thing to keep in mind is that "Snuffles" is a subjective term and can include many illnesses, including pasteurella. Respiratory Pasteurella is characterized by sneezing, thick white discharge from nose or eyes, matted front paws and possibly coughing if pneumonia develops. This bacteria lives so deep in some of the nasal passages that antibiotics won't reach because of inadequate blood flow to the area. I lost my entire herd earlier this year to this because of one rabbit that I brought home. I quarantined it for two weeks and it started sneezing with a clear discharge in the third week. I did all the same reading as you and I figured allergies, but then the discharge turned white and I pulled her out of the barn but it was already too late. All of my breeding animals and three litters of kits eventually came down with it over the next three months. I tried treating with antibiotics but the symptoms only came back after a couple weeks. For me, a sneeze warrants a second look. Sneeze again and you are out of the barn in isolation while I watch you. Any white discharge or matted paws and you have a one way ticket to freezer camp. I just cannot afford to take the chance, and I won't pass you along to anyone else.  I am not saying cull at the first sneeze, I had one sneezing because of a two inch piece of hay up his nose, but it is not something anyone should dismiss out of hand.  I would keep that rabbit isolated for another month or so, just so you can tell if the antibiotics worked (Bordatellosis would be cured by antibiotics) or if it just temporarily suppressed the symptoms. Take care of your other bunnies first, don't trade bottles/crocks and change your clothes after you care for her.  As they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure! 

Shannon


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## heatherrpearce (Oct 27, 2011)

ok im new to rabbits. im trying to help my kids with their project but today i noticed after we got our rabbit a week ago our holland lop who is a yr old has a clear discharge from his eye and he sounds kind of raspy. its not a loud noise i noticed it when i picked him up to hold him and he put his face new my ear. ive been trying to find out what it is and what we need to do to help him. please any help would be appreciated. thanks


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## Ms. Research (Oct 27, 2011)

heatherrpearce said:
			
		

> ok im new to rabbits. im trying to help my kids with their project but today i noticed after we got our rabbit a week ago our holland lop who is a yr old has a clear discharge from his eye and he sounds kind of raspy. its not a loud noise i noticed it when i picked him up to hold him and he put his face new my ear. ive been trying to find out what it is and what we need to do to help him. please any help would be appreciated. thanks


Sorry to hear you have a sick bunny.  Do you have a vet in your area that specializes in rabbits?   Unfortunately with rabbits, they hide their illnesses until it's really bad.  It's part of their hardwired.  They can't look sick and vulnerable in the wild so they hide symptoms.  Rabbits can go down hill real fast because they hide their illnesses.   

I would get your holland lop to a vet.  Snuffles or any discharge (because I really don't know what your holland has) is something that should throw up red flags.  

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.  Hoping your kid's bunny gets well soon.


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## heatherrpearce (Oct 29, 2011)

hey thanks his runny eye has stopped and i havent heard anytype of sounds from him since our vet that we have for 4h told us to give him vitamins and put acv in his water. he said it couldve been just stress from moving. so im hoping her stays well. we have a mini rex and a lionhead also that show no symptoms at all. we are just waiting to see if he gets worse then if he does he will be going back to the vet. thanks for the help.


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