# Rumensin



## cteague (Nov 15, 2016)

Just curious if there are any pros or cons to using this product. I just bought a feed to give to my buck that has AC and rumensin in it. He is kinda hunched up like he maybe trying to get a kidney stone. And i thought the AC would help prevent it. He is still eating like a pig. But the signs are there. He has been dewormed and his eyes are pink so i dont think it is worms. I had some ammonium chloride at one time but we moved and i havent been able to find it, nor can i get any of it from my farm store or my vet. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA☺


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 15, 2016)

The AC in the feed will help prevent UC, it doesn't contain enough to treat UC. 

The rumensin is for cocci prevention, this is usually fed to kids as they are at a higher risk of getting cocci. He probably doesn't need the cocci med, but it shouldn't hurt him. I'm not a fan of giving/feeding unnecessary medications, but if this is the only option he should be fine. Remember to change the feed SLOWLY! 

What feed did you have him on? Do you know the CA: P ratio? What (if any) treats does he get? Any BOSS? What feed are you going to give now? Ca: P ratio? Are you feeding baking soda? 

Look at your hay too. Often times people only look at grain as the cause of UC but that isn't always the case. 

We are in NC and I can get several feeds that don't contain rumensin but still have AC & is balanced. Bartlett and Noble goat are good.


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## cteague (Nov 15, 2016)

They have been on whole oats. No BOSS they dont seem to like it. Didnt know i needed baking soda. Grass hay. They get vitamin c tabets is their treat. The feed was my only option. I may just feed this one bag and try to find another option. Just didnt know much about rumensin. Still learnin.


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## norseofcourse (Nov 15, 2016)

If you have horses, keep that feed far from them, coccidiostats are toxic to horses.


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## Latestarter (Nov 16, 2016)

You didn't say, but I trust you are providing the goat(s) with free choice loose (NOT a block) minerals? If so, most of those have AC in them as well. 

You don't need to feed them baking soda... Some offer it free choice and the goats use it when they need it (upset tummy/rumin) however it counteracts the AC so defeats its purpose, therefore, some say NOT to have it available free choice.  

IMHO, & I don't own my goats yet, if they are only using it when they need it, then it countering the AC should not be much of an issue. On the other hand if they need it and it's not there, it's not like they can come up and ask you for some, and then you may have to deal with a case of bloat... But if you're a hands on owner, you'd probably figure that there was something wrong before it got to that point.


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## cteague (Nov 16, 2016)

Yes they are checked from head to toe everyday. I spend about an hr/day with them. I do have mineral out for them. But the one i got didnt have the AC in it. Hopefully I can find one with it. Do u think it will be ok to top dress with the feed for the boys? I dont think he has one yet just want to prevent.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 16, 2016)

Top dressing the food should be fine. 

Glad to see you aren't giving the BOSS- it can be very harmful to bucks and wethers.

I asked about for the baking soda for the reason above. People feed AC, and then feed baking soda, and wonder why the AC isn't working 

The biggest issue is looking that the CA: P ratio. Your buck really shouldn't be getting stones unless there is an imbalance.

If you cannot find another feed, I wouldn't worry about the rumensin. I know a lot of folks that leave their bucks on medicated feed.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 16, 2016)

You are feeding straight whole oats?

And do you know what kind of grass the hay is?


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## cteague (Nov 16, 2016)

I was feeding him whole oats. I was told that my wethers needed to be on them because they had already had UC and that would keep them from getting them so much since they had been prone to getting them. So thats why he is on them. Cause I was hoping to have the same effect. He hasnt gotten them yet he was hunched up like he maybe getting one. So that is why i got this feed to hopefully prevent them. Dont think im gross....but i felt underneath to see if i could feel one and didnt. When my wethers had them the vet felt down there and could feel the stone. And he had me feel so i would know in the future i they had one. Gosh that sounds horrible. Lol


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## cteague (Nov 16, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> You are feeding straight whole oats?
> 
> And do you know what kind of grass the hay is?



Yes a 10% crude protein whole oat. The hay just looks like a grass hay. It smelled really good. Kinda sweet smelling. It may have a little orchard in it.


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## animalmom (Nov 16, 2016)

@cteague, look don't feel that you can't tell us something because it may sound weird... well it might sound weird to someone who doesn't have livestock, but there probably isn't any of us who haven't had fingers, hands, up to the elbow in our animals.  We all do what we need to do to make sure our animals are healthy, happy and thriving.


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## babsbag (Nov 16, 2016)

Feeding oats is not a good thing; I think you were ill advised. 
Plain grains (oats, wheat, rice) are typically much higher in P than Ca and that will cause UC. I killed a wether feeding wheat hay before I did any research. Alfalfa, alfalfa, alfalfa or grass hay with a good mineral and a balanced goat feed  containing AC or top dressed with a small amount of AC is the best you can do for your boys. I feed 100% alfalfa to my bucks and so do all my friends in my region.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 16, 2016)

x100 on @babsbag & @animalmom 's post! 

Us goat folk can do some crazy things, but there is always a reason and I'd rather see someone who will "get their hands dirty" than worry about what others think! 

Babs is right, you do NOT want to feed oats!  As she said they are high in phosphorus.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 16, 2016)

Agree with the others on the oats.
That's why I asked.
The mixed feed that I use contains oats, but is as a component, they are a small percentage.


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## cteague (Nov 16, 2016)

Oh dear. May just keep them on the new feed then.


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## babsbag (Nov 17, 2016)

If he has the beginning of UC I would add extra AC to his feed.  Here is something I found on Hoegger's website that you might want to do if it looks like UC is starting. 

*Home Remedy:* _As stated before, this is an option for treatment of Urinary Calculi. This treatment in no way guarantees the successful treatment of your animal._
½ red onion
Juice from 3 lemons
6 garlic pods
¼ cup vinegar

Chop onion and garlic. Combine all ingredients in a container and put on the stove to boil. Heat until the garlic and onion are translucent. Remove and blend the mixture until liquefied. Divide the mixture into 4 equal parts. Give 1 part of the mixture by mouth immediately. Give the remaining doses by mouth as follows: 12 hours, 24 hours, 48 hours after the first treatment. It is imperative that you give all 4 doses of the treatment even if you see improvement after the first treatment.







You might experience difficulty in dissolving this amount of ammonium chloride per gal of water. This will depend on the salinity of water being used. Doses were selected assuming a 20 cc drench gun would be used to administer the ammonium chloride solution. These doses will need to continue for more than one week. This will help to break up any remaining calculi. Please be aware that Ammonia toxicity could occur with prolonged use of this treatment, especially at the higher doses.


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