# Tell me about condtition



## Our7Wonders (Dec 19, 2010)

I've been to a couple of the sites that explain condition - I'm still a bit confused but I suppose it's a matter of experience.  

From what I can gather I think my does are likely in need of more padding.  I cannot see ribs, but I can feel them.  Their spinal bones can be felt, though they aren't sharp - rounded I think was the term that was used on the condition chart.  My goat anatomy terminolgy is lacking in a big way, but the area in front of the back hip, below the spine (kinda a hollowed out spot)  seems prominant at times - not always.  That is, if they are standing still, in a normal head up position I can't see that area much, but when they lower their head down that area looks almost sunk-in.  Geesh - I don't know that I'm explaining myself very well.  It's because of this particular area that they look skinny to me at times. Perhaps I'll try to get some pictures this afternoon when I'm back from services.   

What I'm wondering is what's the best way to put condition on pregnant does?  They are about 2.5 and 2.75 months along.  They weren't getting alot of grain to begin with and I've drastically cut it since we're drying them up.  They only get it when their in the milk stand and I'm only milking every few days now.  At the intervals when they would have been milked and had grain I've been giving them instead a hand full of BOSS topped with their mineral (they've finally started taking the mineral - small victory!!) and probios.  Probios is almost gone and I'll be switching to Diamond V.  

Should I add calf manna to the BOSS?  Perhaps beet pulp?  I don't think I want to do alfalfa pellets, they're already on alfalfa mix hay and I think I'm supposed to consider cutting back on alfalfa as gestation continues.  Once they are dried up should I consider adding grain back in?  The dairy that I acquired them from doesn't grain the pregnant does at all once they've been dried up - something about grain not being good for bone development in the babies.  If more padding is what they need is it a source of fat I should be looking for?  More BOSS or an oil of some sort added?  I always have flax seed and flax oil on hand as well as coconut oil, would any of that be a good addition?  Those would be spendy supplements for goats, but if it's needed it's needed.    

They do have free choice alfalfa/grass hay available at all times.  

I appreciate any insight - thank you!


----------



## ksalvagno (Dec 19, 2010)

Alfalfa pellets would be fine for them. I believe you don't want them to have too much protein in the beginning of pregnancy but give them more toward the end to stop kids from getting big too fast but I'm not positive.

You could add some shredded beet pulp. If they are truly are under conditioned, then I would keep them on grain too. I'm sure someone with more experience can add a lot more.


----------



## Our7Wonders (Dec 20, 2010)

Backing off alfalafa was to prevent milk fever - a calcium issue I think.  Too much legume feed can cause it - at least that's what I've read and I think cmjust0 has posted about it as well.

I just picked up shredded beet pulp and some calf manna - not really sure how I'm going to go about introducing it yet, but I'll work on figuring it out today.  

As for the grain - I don't have a problem keeping them on it, I just want to make sure i can dry them up.  I milked them today and got only about 1.5 cups from each doe - so it's working.  I'll milk again on Friday morning and then hopefully that will be it.  Can I add in the feeds or give them more grain without it increasing the milk they're producing?  I'm so close to drying them up I'd have to go backwards - than again I DEFINATELY don't want to lose ground on condition either.  

I know I'm making this way more complicated than it should be - so darn afraid of doing something wrong!!

Thanks!


----------



## ksalvagno (Dec 20, 2010)

I would wait until after they are dried up. You really do want to make sure they are dried up first.

Are they getting all the hay they want to eat? My goats are "well conditioned" just on hay. My hay is an alfalfa/grass mix. But I know it is a really good quality hay and I think no thin animals on my farm is proof. My goats aren't getting any grain right now.


----------



## Our7Wonders (Dec 20, 2010)

I do have hay free choice at all times - and I'm really not SURE that they are under conditioned, being so new to goats I don't have anything to compare them too.  I tried looking at photos online, but the goats were shaved to make it easier to "see" their condition - but my goats aren't shaved so it's hard to compare.  

I'm working in my office today, if I can catch a break at some point, and the weather cooporates (it's snowing right now) I'll try to get some pictures and maybe someone can let me know what they think.  For curiosity sake I may take a picture of my hay too - I don't have a clue what quality hay should look like, but perhaps a close up photo can give an indication for someone "in the know".  

Thanks!


----------



## Ariel301 (Dec 29, 2010)

If you can get some pictures, we should be able to pretty easily figure out their condition. It can be more difficult to get an accurate picture of condition on a fluffy winter goat because the hair hides a lot. But, it's probably still too cold to shave them.

Quality hay should be green, not faded yellow or brown (color will vary some by the variety though). If it is stored out in the sunlight, the light causes it to turn yellow and lose some nutrients, it will also fade in color as it ages, and the freshest hay is the most nutritious. It should have a sweet, clean smell to it, not moldy or unpleasant. Alfalfa hay is best if it has a high ratio of leaves and flowers to stems, the leafy parts are easier to digest than the stems, and I find my goats will eat that part and avoid the big stems. For goats, it doesn't matter if the hay has a lot of weeds in it, they like that. Horse people will generally look for hay with little or no weeds, so a lot of the time you can get a better price on weedy hay. 

As far as a diet to put more weight on a doe...all the hay she wants to eat is a good start (if you don't have enough pasture to provide her full diet), and if that is not enough, get some grain in her too. I use a sweet feed for horses since that is what is most available here, and for those who are too thin I add an extra portion of cracked corn (good cheap fatty food), a little calf-manna, and a quarter cup or so of corn oil for extra fat. That works pretty quickly on most goats, but I do have one that is a chronic "poor doer" who never looks better despite all the calories I pour into her, for various reasons a goat can end up that way sometimes.


----------



## rebelINny (Dec 30, 2010)

Good luck padding them up  I am in the same situation right now with a couple of new goats that I got. They have filled out alot just on hay since we got them but now they are preggo too and so in comes some grain and calf manna.


----------



## Our7Wonders (Dec 30, 2010)

I'm done milking, and therefore done with the grain for now - I haven't re-started the grain yet and I'm not sure I want to either - something about grain not good for the growing bones of the babies, but I can't remember where I read it - I read WAY TOO MUCH!!!

Anyway, I've been adding some hot soaked beet pulp, along with their BOSS and they really seem to enjoy that - weather's been cold (got down to 12 degrees last night) and I'm sure the hot beet pulp is a nice treat.  I'm slowly increasing the amount of the beet pulp - not sure what I should be shooting for as a max, I'll have to look into that.  I bought Calf manna too - One's just over 3 months along and the other is almost there too, so I'll start adding the calf manna sometime in the near future - figured I'd likely save that one for the last month unless it looks like they are losing condition, then I'll have to add it sooner.  

I took some pictures, though I need to take the time to load them on here.
When I finally get around to it I'll post them in another thread to get some opinions on their condition.


----------



## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 31, 2010)

http://www.extension.org/pages/Goat_Body_Condition_Score

This is a good site to glance thru.  They have pictures etc...on the Scores..and they have a "how to score" area!!  I hope it helps..I use UNH alot.  They have alot of good information and work with the local farmers around here!! Its great.  We can even have them test our hay for free for nutritional values!!  

Good luck...its not that hard to learn!  Mostly common sense.  Learn the goats anatomy and go from there!!!


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jan 7, 2011)

I wouldn't try putting on condition on pregnant does,  They will put most the energy into the growing kids, just ending up with really big babies.  work on the condition of the goats after kids are born.  Besides your normal goat feed, adding black sun flower seeds, can put on weight.


----------

