# Kaye's bunny journal



## Kaye

I've had rabbits before, but it has been a long time since I've had more than one at a time. We got my buck, Thumper, three, almost four years ago and I got him a doe two months back, Blossom. I was told that she didn't take care of her litters. They had a litter of nice, healthy kits and Blossom was a wonderful mother. The babies ended up dying from theAlabama heat. Meanwhile, I had bought a doe, Elsa, who was supposed to be pregnant, but they weren't sure. 
Well, she was DISGUSTING. I had no choice but to put her in a warm bath. I knew there was a chance she could go into labor, but there was a bigger chance of fly strike and infection or disease. Well, that night she did go into labor with 8 kits born almost a week premature. She lost all eight. We have since bread both does again. Blossom was a false pregnancy and then Elsa was three days past her due date. Well, on the third night, and early the fourth day (I had almost given up on her) she had three VERY large kits. Huge. These newborns are the size of week old babies with fur and whiskers. They are now two days old and seem to be doing great!! Elsa is also doing good and has developed a little bit of a cage aggression. This doesn't bother me because I admire the protectiveness in a doe who's kindled.


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## Kaye

We've been having some problems with the heat, so I have been freezing water bottles and putting them in their cages. 

I will post pictures of the breeders soon. Here's the babies


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## DutchBunny03

Cute kits!! What breed are they?


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## Kaye

Their father, Thumper, is half Lion head and halfDutch. I have no clue what the mother is....


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## DutchBunny03

Cool! When you post pictures, maybe someone can tell what she is.


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## Kaye

This is mom, Elsa. A close up to see the colors on her ears, but didn't turn out the way I planned


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## Kaye

Elsa. I will eventually post a pic that shows all of her unique colors. Her white had a soft golden overlay and the tan on her ears fades into grey. Her big pink eyes have very light blue around the pupils


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## Kaye

Thumper, the father. Sarabi is the pibble in the picture.... They were very interested in the shopvac. Will get a picture of his face


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## DutchBunny03

So you think Thunper is a lionhead/ Dutch mix, but you don't know what the dam is?


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## DutchBunny03

How much does the dam weigh? Her color and body type suggests part New Zealand White. Her markings are awesome, by the way.


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## Kaye

DutchBunny03 said:


> So you think Thunper is a lionhead/ Dutch mix, but you don't know what the dam is?


I knew Thump's parents, so I'm sure of what he is, but no idea on Elsa.


DutchBunny03 said:


> How much does the dam weigh? Her color and body type suggests part New Zealand White. Her markings are awesome, by the way.


I don't know her weight off hand, but shes smaller than my NZ doe, Blossom. Can you see the gold over the white??


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## Kaye

My dear, sweet, Thumper buck. You can see his father (LH) in the face. The darker fur is a little shorter on his face  He likes to have his picture taken


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## Kaye

Blossom, my NZ doe


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## Kaye

First pic is part of the premature litter Elsa had and lost.
Second picture is of one of Blossom and Thumps kits that Blossom bit the tip of its ear off. 
Third picture is of the rest of the kits from that litter that died from the heat


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## Kaye

And then, I met Alice. We fell in love and she has been hopping around behind me ever since 

Bunny love


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## Kaye

Elsa and kits are still doing good. It has been a cooler day today so I haven't even had to put the frozen bottles in the cages. They must've gotten cold last night bc Elsa pulled more fur. They seem to be growing like mutant ninja turtles... They look like they will have their eyes open by the end of the week. I will post a close up of their faces soon. Also, the black one almost a cradle cap thing going on with his skin. What is that about??
Alice is still in the feed shed and thinks she's an inside bunny now... She felt really good this morning and was spazzing out the entire time I was in there. I need to pick KayLynne's toys back up bc she's been chewing on one of her wooden blocks. Other than that she is 'the three H's: happy, healthy, and hilarious' and such a sweetheart who love to cuddle at 5 am!
I'm trading Thump into the cage Blossom is in now and putting her in the run today. This is what I need the community run for, so I can do this without putting too much stress on my does. She's such a sweet thing, but she HATES being picked up. She doesn't mind the love and attention, just doesn't like being picked up at all. She really stresses it. I'm not sure why. Maybe she's been dropped before?? I don't know

On a side note: I moved the poults outside last night and this morning they had no idea what to do with theirselves!! They were a little scared at first, but once the sun started rising they went crazy!!


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## Kaye

Elsa and Thump's three fat four day old kits. These babies are so big. And fuzzy. And cute!!


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## animalmom

Love the little black one with the two white toes.


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## Kaye

My favorite is the first one. That is the fattest baby rabbit I have ever seen. And has this extra skin thing going on and looks like the shar pei of rabbits


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## Kaye

It has been really cool for the last few mornings. My buns are LOVING it!! I love when the weather turns crisp and the rabbits turn flips. Lol 
Alice and I have been snuggling in the feed shed every morning after feeding and watering the other animals  my kits have been growing in LEAPS AND BOUNDS!! They have a tenfold chance of surviving now that it has cooled off


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## Kaye

My snuggle bunnies. I LOVE my buns <3


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## Kaye

These kits are 6 1/2 oz each. Fat buns  the vitamins I'm giving Elsa are obviously going straight to those chunky butts <3 their eyes are open in the corners, so it won't be long  
They have been exploring their box and sniffing everything. I can't wait till they can see what they've been sniffing!!
Last night my daughter, KayLynne, was running a fever (a small one) and still wanted to help me out with the animals. Well, she fell asleep on her blanket and Alice hopped over and snuggled her.  Until I was done and had to take KayLynne in, Alice stayed right beside her instead of playing like she normally does. The only way Alice moved was when she was cleaning her ears, and it wasn't very far then


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## Kaye

Sweet Alice


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## frustratedearthmother

Cute, cute, cute!


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## Kaye

Our eyes are open!! Will post pictures later


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## Kaye

Now we can see who gives us all the loves!! And annoy mom


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## Kaye

Playing in the feed shed to give mom a break. Plus there's more room to RUN!!!


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## Kaye

I haven't posted about any bunny other than the babies, so.... Tomorrow I will be posting about Blossom, Thumper, and Elsa. There's really nothing 'new', but I have been leaving them out of my journal, so Imma have an elder bun day. They feel their best in the morning, so I guess it will be an early photo shoot


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## DutchBunny03

How many rabbits do you have on all? What housing system do you use?


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## Kaye

I have 3 adult rabbits, my juvenile rabbit (Alice), and the 3 kits. So I have 7 in all... And as far as my housing, I need a new system. Right now I'm using separate cages and having to move them around more than I would like. My pregnant does go into the biggest cage whenever they kindle. My buck and my other doe get swapped out from small cage to the run every week. Alice is living in the feed shed bc she can escape all of the cages but the one I have Elsa and the kits in. Any recommendations would be appreciated dearly


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## DutchBunny03

Each adult rabbit should have his/her own hutch, unless they are bonded. Rabbits fight ALOT. My rabbits have bloodied each other's necks in fights. I've heard the best kind of housing system are all-wire hutches, but I have wood and wire hutches, and they work great. There are some hutches that are virtually escape proof for your Alice. A shed outside or somewhere to put the hutches in is a big help. You can hang the hutches, or put them on wood or metal supports. But be careful, rabbits can mate through wire, so keep the hutches at least 3 inches apart.


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## DutchBunny03

http://www.raising-rabbits.com/rabbit-cage-plans.html Here is a link for building all-wire cages. Don't worry, wire doesn't hurt their feet. Mine live on wire floors, and are just fine. A good spacing rule is 1 square foot per pound of rabbit as a minimum. For a dam with kits, you may want a bigger hutch to rotate her into, although it is not absolutely neccessary.


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## DutchBunny03

A wood and wire hutch can be built by stretching and stapling wire to a wood frame. Roofing nails also work great for attaching wire to wood.


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## Kaye

@DutchBunny03  thanks!!


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## DutchBunny03

You're welcome!!


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## Kaye

Thumper, Blossom, and Elsa with her kits


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## Kaye

My Thumper is such a ham


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## DutchBunny03

Thumper has some unique coloring.


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## Kaye

DutchBunny03 said:


> Thumper has some unique coloring.


The lighter brown is a totally different length and texture. It's not only a unique color, but a unique mix of two different types of fur. This is where you can see the lionhead mix. He makes very colorful kits


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## DutchBunny03

Nice!! Didn't you say he was a Lionhead/Dutch mix? I can feel a little bit of texture difference between the white abd colored hair on my Dutch.


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## Bunnylady

Thumper is a rabbit that has done a partial molt and hasn't completed it. The darker color is the newer hair, the lighter hair has faded somewhat from exposure to light and just aging. Some rabbits never completely molt, it is a nuisance in animals intended for show (and therefor something that show breeders try to breed away from). Many animals that do this will have just a little bit of fur on their hips and shoulders that never sheds out; it may be quite a few shades lighter than their body color. Animals of many breeds may do this, it is not attributable to the Lionhead breed. Occasionally, you run into animals that do this repeatedly, who are wearing patches of hair that may be half a dozen different shades.


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## DutchBunny03

Yep. It looks cool, but is a HUGE disqualification. But, if you are not intending on showing them, it would be awesome!! I wonder if someday, someone will create a breed that has different fur textures as a requirement.


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## Kaye

DutchBunny03 said:


> Nice!! Didn't you say he was a Lionhead/Dutch mix? I can feel a little bit of texture difference between the white abd colored hair on my Dutch.


Yes he is


Bunnylady said:


> Thumper is a rabbit that has done a partial molt and hasn't completed it. The darker color is the newer hair, the lighter hair has faded somewhat from exposure to light and just aging. Some rabbits never completely molt, it is a nuisance in animals intended for show (and therefor something that show breeders try to breed away from). Many animals that do this will have just a little bit of fur on their hips and shoulders that never sheds out; it may be quite a few shades lighter than their body color. Animals of many breeds may do this, it is not attributable to the Lionhead breed. Occasionally, you run into animals that do this repeatedly, who are wearing patches of hair that may be half a dozen different shades.


He's been this way his entire adult life... I brush him, but it just stays!! I guess he has never been one fur type his whole (almost) 4 years. I didn't think it was a 'breed' trait, as much as just a 'Thumper' trait. I do know he sheds WAYYYYYY more than most rabbits, perhaps I have found why?? Will he continue this way??  I'm not really worried about the shedding unless it causes him some kind of problem, I'm jw. It's only the two colors and lengths, but he could get more colors/textures??
Thank you for all of your input


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## DutchBunny03

The shedding won't cause any problems, as long as he doesn't ingest too much. Keep the fur out of his food and water.


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## Bunnylady

DutchBunny03 said:


> I wonder if someday, someone will create a breed that has different fur textures as a requirement.



They already have - the Lionhead.

If I looked around this site long enough, I know I can find several pics that members have posted of rabbits wearing at least 3 or 4 different shades - sometimes the old hair can fade to nearly cream color, and urine on the coat can turn it a sort of orange. This is one of the more recent pictures:


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## DutchBunny03

That Lop is awesome. By different textures, I mean like that Lop you posted, not a Lionhead.


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## Kaye

@Bunnylady  That's really interesting. His babies also carry the same 'pattern' does this mean they will have the same problems??
The 'chocolate' (not so chocolate anymore) one even has the pattern in grey.


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## Kaye

Thumper looked like this one when I got him, but he was more of a darker color overall. Has he cursed these kits?? Lol


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## Bunnylady

The chocolate colored kit is showing some variation of the Agouti pattern; it might be a Chocolate Steel. The orange kit is an Orange; Oranges are all dark on the back and light on the sides like that. Even Reds often start like that, then get more of the red coloring as they grow in later coats.

This is a 3-week-old Broken Red Mini Rex:


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## Kaye

That is almost what color Thump was when I got him. Maybe more of the orange than the red, but darker than the kit. SoThumper just didn't shed the bottom art of his pattern?? I will try to find a picture from him as a baby. Thump has the same pattern as the orange or red.
Sorry for all the questions


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## Bunnylady

It isn't as random looking as the unshed hair on the lop, but the shedding on Thumper is completely separate from the pattern.





In this picture, you can see that the new hair runs from behind the ears to the middle of his back, while the reddish area on the baby's back goes all the way to its tail. It looks like he has newer, darker hair on his feet and lower legs, too.

Being reddish down the middle of the back and a bit lighter on the sides is typical of rabbits with the Agouti pattern; here you can see it on a young lop:


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## Kaye

That little Lop is so pretty!! I actually don't know about agouti on rabbits, but I have two bobtail cats that have the agouti pattern. I will have to post a pic of them, also...


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## Kaye

Sweet Alice, don't you know?? Falling asleep is how you got into the rabbit hole.... Love my snuggle babies


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## Kaye

@Bunnylady, this is one of my agouti bobtail kitties, Boots. With her tongue hung out


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## Kaye

And this is my other agouti, Booger. My sweet Booger tom


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## Kaye

And a closeup of Booger's fur


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## Bunnylady

That looks a lot like  the fur of an Abyssinian cat. Are they related?


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## Kaye

Bunnylady said:


> That looks a lot like  the fur of an Abyssinian cat. Are they related?


Yes!! I had a long tail Abyssinian(lookalike) cat and she was from the same litter. Their mother was a stray I fell in love with with a cute bobtail. I don't really know what they are as far as breed, but the mother has weird fur as well. Her fur is silver tabby normally until you rub it backward nd it is orange. Not tabby cat orange, but a very deep, almost red, solid color


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## Kaye

I just realized that my kits are fully wiened at 3 weeks old. I know mom knows what she's doing but still this seems young


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## Kaye

Chocolate kit's eyes are turning more of a blue color everyday. She is turning out to be a beautiful rabbit. The little orange one went to a new home bc mom was getting kind of violent with her. She was also the biggest. She is doing very well and is an indoor bunny. The black one with the white toes is a boy and is the second largest. Mom is not tolerating him very well. I will be moving them into their own run soon. Blossom and thumper have had a meeting twice in the past two days, but only fell off once. Tomorrow will be their last time. Then I will give Elsa an extra week before breeding again bc she wiened them a week earlier than I had planned


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## Kaye

Alice


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## Kaye

Still open to suggestions on rabbit housing. I would like to do a community type thing but I have no clue where to even start


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## Kaye

Learning genetics. I want a rew to breed Thumper to. I have gone mad with the possibilities Thumper could create... Bwahahaha!!


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## Kaye

Buns!!!


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## animalmom

Looking good!


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## Kaye

This hunk of bun is Thor. I traded the black buck kit for him. He is Blossom's full brother. My new backup buck. He is a beautiful boy


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## Kaye

I also ordered some materials for my new hutches!!


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## Kaye

Someone brought me these bones to try to identify them. I think these May be cow bones. Not sure. But I am sure that Alice is the bunny from Monty Python. Jus sayin


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## Kaye

Thor and his new house. The new hutches


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## Kaye

All my buns are (almost.i need more bedding) moved in!! As long as I keep a pine cone in their rooms I don't think they're going to crib to much...


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## animalmom

I hope you can keep us posted on how your bunnies do with their fancy new wooden hutches.  I'd show pictures of their new digs to my buns, but they'd just get jealous.


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## Kaye

Got my REW doe. She's only 4 months old right now, but she is perfect!!
Her name is Avalanche 
My three year old comes up with the best names.


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## Kaye

So... when I say this has never happened before, I really mean NEVER. I can usually tell at a few weeks old if a bun is male or female. Nesquick is a male. I was POSITIVE he was a she. It's still not easy to tell. He's a lot different than my other bucks 'down there'. I mean, it's there, but looks more like an elongated vagina that's a little swollen. But he is all male in every other way. Lol
I was going to post pictures, *but it doesn't look the same in pictures. *Maybe it's bc I only have a smart phone to work with, I don't know. 
Was just wondering if anyone else has had a buck like I described??


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## Bunnylady

Sounds like a split penis; that's a disgustingly common problem in some breeds. It's a disqualification on a show table. Some bucks only have a little groove or a partial split, others split all the way down. When you go to check the gender on a young rabbit, if it seems to be a little buck and his penis seems to have a curve to it, look closely because it's probably split. I suspect some of the really bad splits may be the reason for some of the 'visits from the sex change fairy.' A buck with a really bad split is useless as a breeding animal because he can't get does settled, but even one with a little split shouldn't be used; the cause is genetic and he'll pass it on to at least some of his sons.


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## Kaye

Bunnylady said:


> Sounds like a split penis; that's a disgustingly common problem in some breeds. It's a disqualification on a show table. Some bucks only have a little groove or a partial split, others split all the way down. When you go to check the gender on a young rabbit, if it seems to be a little buck and his penis seems to have a curve to it, look closely because it's probably split. I suspect some of the really bad splits may be the reason for some of the 'visits from the sex change fairy.' A buck with a really bad split is useless as a breeding animal because he can't get does settled, but even one with a little split shouldn't be used; the cause is genetic and he'll pass it on to at least some of his sons.


Thank you, sensei!! So do I need to breed both parents to other bloodlines to find out who passed it to him or is this something that is from only mom or only dad?? I mean, the former is my plan to begin with, but not if I know it came from either gender parent


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## TAH

Love your bunnys


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## Kaye

Thanks @TAH !! I'm sure they would love you!!


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## TAH

@Kaye I am sure I would LOVE them


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## Kaye

Gestation day: 31. We have some discomfort and restlessness. She is showing signs of wanting to nest, but nothing too serious yet. She has gone 33 days before, but usually 31 days is her limit. Wish us luck with healthy kits born to sweet Blossom!!


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## Kaye

I want this doe. Isn't she beautiful?!?


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## Kaye

KayLynne (the dirty-faced toddler) and her AVALANCHE!!! Lol
We say Avalanche like there's a huge pile of snow coming after us. I'm pretty sure that this is the entire reasoning behind my toddler's naming of the rabbit....


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## TAH

Your daughter is ADORABLE so is Avalanche!!


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## animalmom

Oh my word what a charming young lady!


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## Kaye

Thanks!! I made her that way!! Lol. I tell her I special ordered her to be so beautiful  she's so amazing, though. And she's only 3. She knows how to handle the rabbits and chickens and understands how breeding works. She is more mature than most adults I know. She uses her manners and helps me (sometimes to much) with everything she is able She does still have her tantrums and fussing fits, but she is a toddler after all. Lol
I have been blessed with the most amazing daughter in the world 
Avalanche is cute, too


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## Kaye

Thumper really enjoys chasing his tail. I say 'oh no, Thump!! It's right behind you!!' And he goes bonkers after that little poof-ball tail!! Running in circles after his cotton bottom (lol) and shaking his ears. Then a nice binky and back to nonchalant Thumper. Like nothing ever happened. Cracks me up


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## Kaye

Anyone who knows anything about turkeys: http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/1143187/turkey-help-what-is-this

Please help me


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## Kaye

Blossom had three still-born kits. I think I am done with trying to breed her. We just have very bad luck. These buns were very big and looked fully developed


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## Kaye

Lop eared doe. Was bred to fawn lop buck. Maybe I can get some lop eared babies


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## Kaye

Named the new lop. Mocha Loppe'
I couldn't help myself


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## mygoldendoe

Your bunnies are very pretty!


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## Kaye

Elsa is getting pushy again. She is getting close to kindling!! When she gets to about day 28 or 29 she goes crazy trying to clean everything. I have her a few paper towels and she really got into cleaning her cage. She growled at me when I tried to move her to another cage so I decided against it only bc she is so close. Instead I removed the dirty bedding and replaced it


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## Kaye

Annabelle


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## Kaye

Alice


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## Kaye

Elsa had her kits last night. 7 but one died, so she has 6 little healthy buns. She decided against the nest box and just made a huge pile of bedding and fur instead. I put a low board across the bottom of the hutch to keep the kits from crawling around everywhere. She seems to be okay with this. 
I remember seeing someone yesterday posted they wouldn't have a pushy doe. Even if she was pregnant/nursing. Elsa lunged and growled at me earlier when one of the kits cried (I was looking to make sure all was healthy and putting divider across the bottom). She was protesting my touching her babies. Protecting her kits. How is this not a good thing??


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## samssimonsays

People dislike the idea of having any one animal that is "unsafe" to handle or reach into their cages. In my experience, it escalates past when the hormones were running rampant. I never kept any doe or buck who was cage aggressive outside of raising kits. I gave them a free pass, it is instinct and it is natural for them to protect their kits.


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## promiseacres

One of the characteristics of  velveteen lops are their sweet and friendly personalities. I tolerate a protective mother as long as it's within reason. Any nasty attitudes that escalate will be culled. So far haven't had to cull any of them. Did cull a polish buck. My kids ages 2, 4 and 8 show and help care for the bunnies (limited handling of nestbox kits) I do not want them afraid of the rabbits.


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## Kaye

Indeed. I was just reading a post from someone who has a possible pregnant doe (only had her a couple days) and is wanting to get rid of her already. I actually think she did cull her. 
I follow another forum and everyone was talking about how they'd cull her because the babies could get her personality. I just don't think they gave her a chance to even find out her personality. 
I totally agree with culling a truly aggressive rabbit, I've had to cull a nasty buck I had acquired a year ago. My daughter (3) wanted to pet him so bad. I had him for 3 months. I never was able to reach into his cage without being scratched AND bit. I REALLY thought I could change his attitude, but I failed. 
As far as getting a pregnant doe and not give her but a few days to adjust?? I feel like she should have had a little longer. Like after she gave birth and finished nursing. BUT people do things differently than I, so all I can do is complain and express my feelings towards the problem. Maybe my rant will save another pregnant doe. 
I mean, IMHO I don't think you can find out what kind of personality she has until she is done protecting her babies. Even while pregnant they have the instinct to protect the offspring. Hormones, as mentioned, cause even the most gentle animal to turn into a beast. Lol
I'm glad people actually read my rants. Thanks guys


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## Kaye

Mocha Loppe'


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## Kaye

Can't get enough of these little naked babies!! Growing like weeds


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## Kaye

I've noticed that Thumper has thrown a chocolate in every litter....


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## TAH

Cute

We had a variety of personality's 
Smokey would bit thru the finger nail, he went to the dinner plate. 
Nadia was a pain but sweet Temperament, when she had her babys it was a whole other story, she would lunge at anyone trying to touch her baby's.
Bulshia was the biggest funnest girl ever, she would lunge at us in a playing way but never bit and would growl if she didn't get her food when she wanted it. 
Then we had 5 bottle babys all very very sweet, always wanted to be petted and loved people. 
Then we had peter the stubborn obnoxious bunny around, yet he had his sweet side. We ended up culling him due to a split penis. 

I have learned to work around all the rabbits personality's. I won't keep a bunny the bits every time I go out to the cage but I also don't mind keeping ones that are protective of there space.


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## Kaye

I have 2 babies left. It dropped down to 19 after being in the lower 50s. It got way to cold for the kits even though they were in the feed shed with a small radiator heater. I have moved them into my bedroom along with Elsa. I feel so bad about the others. I will keep the last two in the house for the next few weeks. I will do anything I can do to keep them alive


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## Kaye

What an exhausted little Avalanche. It's so hard to be this cute


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## Kaye

Fat baby rabbits. These two are growing like crazy!!


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## Kaye

Elsa and the chocolate kit. I think the black one is under her


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## Kaye

Kits!!!!


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## TAH




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## Kaye

Sibling rivalry between rabbits. 
They crack me up


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## Kaye

TAH said:


> Bulshia was the biggest funnest girl ever, she would lunge at us in a playing way but never bit and *would growl if she didn't get her food when she wanted it. *


I'm the same way. Lol


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## Kaye

Blossom and Thor


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## Kaye

We have our eyes open!!


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## Kaye

Fat rabbits


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## mygoldendoe

I love looking at your photos of your rabbits!


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## Kaye

Thank you, @mygoldendoe !! I love posting them


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## Kaye

I have a recruit for my rabbit adventure. My neighbor, Heather, has been helping me with the rabbit genetics and husbandry. She has been a lifesaver!! Expecially since I have 3 does trying to nest and now Blossom is going through a pseudo pregnancy. I guess it's all the pheromones. Poor girl. She's nesting, too. The hay mustache is hard not to laugh at, but I still feel bad for her. She has been a wonderful mother to the babies she had while she had them, but something has happened every litter.


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## Kaye

This is what happens when the mother bun actually gets a break from kits that can get out of the nest. I took them out and she passed out. She caught me trying to take the second picture


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## Kaye

Upside down, sleeping, fat, baby rabbits!!


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## Kaye

Playing outside for the first time!! These two were going crazy earlier today. The first time we have been able to get outside without being off the ground and without mom!!


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## TAH

So cute!!


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## Kaye

I still get very excited every time I have does close to kindling!! I'm like KayLynne waiting on santa. lol 
On a different note, what do you guys use for bedding?? I'm looking to change, but I have a pull to keep working with what I've got


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## Kaye

Annabelle had her kits the night before last. She had 5. We lost 3/5 last night. We still have two, but I wish they all would have made it. Two of the deceased were darker like the dark one in the picture, and one was identical to the lighter one. Maybe it's just because of the fact that this is Anna's first litter. I hope. Anyway... wish these two luck!!


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## mygoldendoe

Aw best of luck to your remaining ones!!


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## Kaye

Annabelle lost all of her kits. I'm pretty sure that she squished the dark one and I have not a clue what she was doing with the lighter one. She picked it up and took it to the other side of the cage. It died after this even when I moved it back into the nest she would move it back to the other side. Three strikes and she's out. This is her first litter and I honestly hope that is the entire reason they were lost


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## mygoldendoe

Aw sorry to hear that. maybe you'll have better luck with her if she has a second litter..


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## Kaye

I really hope so! She had some very colorful kits. I wish I could have gotten more pics of them


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## Kaye

So the little black kit is splay legged. It seems to not bother him at all. I'm tempted to try the 'cork' method and try to fix it. Not sure about this, though


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## promiseacres

Sorry she lost the litter.  I have found that my new mamas tend to want to hang out in their nest boxes and tend to squish their kits, especially in the winter. Therefore I remove the kits in their box and only return in for feeding morning and evening for the first couple of weeks.  Never had a splay leg yet but would lean towards culling it myself.


----------



## Kaye

If it causes any other problems I will have to cull it. For now he's doing just as well as the other with no splay leg.


----------



## Kaye

So I have been noticing that Mocha does not eat her cecotropes. I'm not sure why she doesn't. I know of people who try to discourage their buns from doing this. I have never, but I have always known why they do this. Why would she not?? I have always thought that this was a very important part of rabbit digestion
@Bunnylady


----------



## Kaye

And Elsa has been weaning her two kits. Already. Maybe it's because she's always had small litters... they're huge little fluffs, so maybe that's why. Idk. I have all the weird animals. She weaned her last litter at 3 weeks, completely weaned at 4 weeks. I feel like that is way too soon


----------



## TAH

We weaned our rabbits at 4-weeks old. 
Sorry you lost the kits.


----------



## promiseacres

Most of the time it's almost impossible to know if they are eating them as they will immediately ingest them after they have them. If she's healthy and have regular stools I would assume she does this in private.


Kaye said:


> So I have been noticing that Mocha does not eat her cecotropes. I'm not sure why she doesn't. I know of people who try to discourage their buns from doing this. I have never, but I have always known why they do this. Why would she not?? I have always thought that this was a very important part of rabbit digestion
> @Bunnylady


 Why do you think she's weaning them? Since they generally only nurse 2x a day they may be nursing then at other times when they sneak extra she may be hopping away


----------



## Kaye

@promiseacres I know she is because she's getting aggressive. She has done this before. Her last litter was weaned at 4 weeks and were horrified of her. She would lunge and bite them. And she's never only nursed 2xs a day unless I have moved her kits. Her buns are nursed a lot more than that. She goes against most of my other rabbits. I need to get in touch with her previous owners (or their mother, rather) and find out if she has always weaned at 4 weeks. 
And I know Mocha's not eating them because they look different than they should (I should have put this in my post. I'm sorry). I have talked to a veterinarian and she thinks I need to add more fiber to her diet and gave me a list of things to try. 
She also said that I shouldn't be overly worried about Elsa weaning her kits so soon and that it could just be because she does nurse more than she has to. 
And thanks for being the only person to give any advice.


----------



## promiseacres

Just throwing out ideas. I have never had a doe get aggressive with the kits.  crazyness. Got to love when they throw curve balls, think they do it to drive us crazy. How's the kit with the bad legs? 





Kaye said:


> @promiseacres I know she is because she's getting aggressive. She has done this before. Her last litter was weaned at 4 weeks and were horrified of her. She would lunge and bite them. And she's never only nursed 2xs a day unless I have moved her kits. Her buns are nursed a lot more than that. She goes against most of my other rabbits. I need to get in touch with her previous owners (or their mother, rather) and find out if she has always weaned at 4 weeks.
> And I know Mocha's not eating them because they look different than they should (I should have put this in my post. I'm sorry). I have talked to a veterinarian and she thinks I need to add more fiber to her diet and gave me a list of things to try.
> She also said that I shouldn't be overly worried about Elsa weaning her kits so soon and that it could just be because she does nurse more than she has to.
> And thanks for being the only person to give any advice.


----------



## Kaye

It's still doing just as good as the other. When they eat it puts it's leg over mom or the other kit. It moves just as fast as the other, but looks a little crazy doing so


----------



## Kaye

Mocha Loppé is one strike away. She bit me. Again


----------



## TAH

Which one is mocha? 

Try putting a towel over her face and holding her till she stops fighting. Make sure she doesn't know it's you till you remove the towel. This worked for my girl!


----------



## Kaye

This is Mocha


----------



## TAH

!! 

LOVE her!!


----------



## Kaye

She's very pretty. She doesn't mind being petted, but she bites when you pick her up. Like after holding her for a moment she just decides to bite me. The first time I didn't even count because she had been with me for a total of maybe 20 hours. Just nervous about being in a new place. Well that time she lunged and bit my hand, not enough to bring blood, but still hurt. Next was when I was getting ready to brush her. She bit my arm. This time she flipped around in my arms and bit my neck!! Bunnicula


----------



## Calendula

I just read through all of the pages of your journal. And I must say, I love your bunnies. Thumper is absolutely gorgeous. 
I'm sorry that you've had so much bad luck with the rabbit litters.  I would try to offer advice, but I've never bred rabbits. Planning to try getting some breeding does and bucks in the spring, though, for meat. Just need to do a LOT of research so I'm as ready for that as I was for the first time my goat went into labor.
I do have two pet rabbits named Bugs and Lola.  I adore them. Bugs loves to cuddle up against you and went through a phase last year where he would lick my boyfriend's neck. It was strange. He had salt licks, so I don't what his deal was. Haha.

I'm looking forward to reading more of your adventure!


----------



## Kaye

@Calendula thank you!! My Thumper knows he's pretty 
And you should post some pics of your buns!!


----------



## mygoldendoe

O wow, me being scared of rabbits just got an edge greater..Bit ur neck...Ugh made me glade so far I haven't had to pick mine up..Everyone else does it for me.


----------



## Kaye

@TAH
It worked!! I held Mocha for about 20 minutes earlier after I did what you suggested!! It took her longer than I thought it would, but it was the longest I've ever held her. And I have no bite marks to show!! I feel like it might take another time, but maybe not. I'm amazed and soooo thankful for your help!!
@mygoldendoe
They're not really evil beasts.lol. I'm sure there's a reason she acts like this when you pick her up. I'm pretty sure that the only time she was held was when she was stuck in a cage then again when she was put in to another cage before I bought her. I know she's got to feel frightened, so she gets let go the only way she knows works. She bit. And I put her down. She knows what works and she goes for it. The good news is that most buns don't bite. She never even brought blood, but I do have a bruise where she got my leg. Even grouchy bunnies can be calmed down if you find out how to do so, and that is when you get on here and find out how!!


----------



## TAH

So glad it worked @Kaye!! 

Hope she continues to stay nice! 

!


----------



## Kaye

I just realized that my last post say 'leg' when I should have said 'arm'. lol. I'm sorry for that 
And I have new pics of the babies!!!


----------



## mygoldendoe

Aww so cute!!


----------



## mygoldendoe

Hmm saw some lionheads angoras and rex for sale for 10$ about 2rs away in warrior AL...I asked to see her photos and the cages are mostly wood floor with minimal wire that's either too big or small for rabbits size (she has dwarfs-giants)..It's. Littered with poop and in kinda wondering if it's worth it..id really like lionheads or angora since I spin & just want two too see if I am up for the upkeep before investing. And 10$ (with a promise of reconfigure price if we but more than three) is kind of pulling at me...That's a good deal for just seeing if I can keep up with their care, then just eat or resell if I don't like...I dunno....What would u consider doing? Do u think that sounds too good? The bunnies look pretty healthy consider having poop n cages (she has over 24 so I assume it gets overloaded) she has a fb page for them I can send in a conversation to u... I just haven't bought from a large breeder & duuno what I should be considering..


----------



## Calendula

More baby pictures. Just what I needed. 
Haha, I'll have to see about getting some pictures of them! Bugs always greets us at the door, so it shouldn't be too hard to get one of him.

I don't know what to look for in a big breeder. Is she getting out of breeding? Ten dollars for those seems a little... Cheap. I could possibly tell better if you'd be willing to share the Facebook page or the pictures.
I've also never bunny shopped, although we're trying now. No one sells standard Rex rabbits. One person that we found that did said he stopped and switched to Mini Rex. That's all that anyone breeds around here.


----------



## mygoldendoe

Well she said she's selling them cheap bc she's getting out of breeding and wants them all gone. She was breeding pets not a standard for pedigree, so was selling at pet price.


----------



## Calendula

Ok, that makes more sense. Plus even "pet" rabbits easily go for around forty dollars here.  I wish I could find ten dollar rabbits.


----------



## Kaye

@mygoldendoe 
If you have a place for them to be quarantined then I would go for it!! That's CHEAP. as long as you don't mix them in with your buns for a few weeks, then you should have no problem. 
Angora rabbits are a lot of work. I have had only one in my life, but he was ALWAYS needing to be brushed. 
I'm thinking you are raising for meat?? If so, if it turns out to be a horrible idea (I don't think it will) you could send them to freezer camp....


----------



## Kaye

Calendula said:


> Ok, that makes more sense. Plus even "pet" rabbits easily go for around forty dollars here.  I wish I could find ten dollar rabbits.


Wow!! Where are you??


----------



## Calendula

Southern Michigan. Granted, the rabbits we are looking at are registered and for show, but still... We've seen rabbits for sale at one store for $20 while at another feedstore, I saw poorly bred rabbits for $40. I'm talking about Lionheads and New Zealands that were the same size and all looked alike.  If I'm going to pay that kind of money, I will be going through a breeder.


----------



## mygoldendoe

Kaye said:


> @mygoldendoe
> If you have a place for them to be quarantined then I would go for it!! That's CHEAP. as long as you don't mix them in with your buns for a few weeks, then you should have no problem.
> Angora rabbits are a lot of work. I have had only one in my life, but he was ALWAYS needing to be brushed.
> I'm thinking you are raising for meat?? If so, if it turns out to be a horrible idea (I don't think it will) you could send them to freezer camp....


 yeah i breed for meat but since I spin Ive started thinking it's be nice to have one to see how it goes..It'd save me from driving 2hrs to get fiber since my friend doesn't give me wool from her sheep anymore..Yeah I'm gonna ask about their health history and go from there..


----------



## Calendula

I second asking for health and keeping them quarantined.  I hope it all goes well and I can't wait to (possibly) see pictures!
Angoras are on my dream list of animals. I went to a store that had gorgeous yarn, some of which was angora. It was so wonderful.  I will be really excited to see that one.


----------



## Kaye

@mygoldendoe 
Just remember that she is trying to get out of the business so there's a chance she could lie about the health history. It happens. I pray it goes smoothly for you. I would like to see pictures of your work!!


----------



## Kaye

Mocha Loppé
Love the ears


----------



## Kaye

Got bedding on the way. To be here tomorrow. Yayy!!


----------



## Calendula

I love Mocha.  I want American Fuzzy Lops... one day.


----------



## Kaye

I really want a velveteen lop. I am in love with those overly long floppy ears!! Thought about trying to find a buck to breed to Mocha. I don't know for sure, but I am imagining these fluffy, long eared buns that melt my heart


----------



## promiseacres

Don't exactly want a Vlop to be fluffy but definitely long ears! If you decide you need one can hook you up. Hopefully lots of litters this Spring!


----------



## Kaye

The buns love the new bedding. I love the bunny binkies and ear flips. I changed to shavings plus and they like it way better than the just paper pulp bedding. This change was a mix between the shredded paper that was previously used at complete change yesterday. Next will be spot cleaning  for a while


----------



## Kaye

Yayy!! Annabelle is 29 days today!!


----------



## Calendula

So... more baby bunnies soon? 

I've been trying to get some meat rabbits, but it's impossible to find people breeding the ones we want.  How did you find yours? Do you have any advice? I'm at a loss here.


----------



## Pastor Dave

@Calendula,
What state are you in? The NRBA usually has some lists per state for finding good breeders.


----------



## Calendula

I'm in Michigan. I checked out the ARBA, and then a website called rabbitbreeders.us.
Sorry, but... What is the NRBA? I'm new to this rabbit nonsense. 
There's a lot of rabbits in our fair from 4-H, but I don't know how to get in touch with any of them.


----------



## Pastor Dave

My bad, I was thinking National rather than American.
It has been over 20 years since I was a member.
If you were closer, could help you out with some buns. Plan to make a trip to Indianapolis any time? Lol


----------



## Pastor Dave

@Calendula,
You might try going online and looking at contacts through the Michigan State RBA.
There are generally email addresses and even phone #'s that could still be current to get some leads going in the breeds you might like to acquire.


----------



## Calendula

Haha. With it finally snowing? Definitely not planning on any road trips!

I think we're just going to start out with some mutts from a feed store or off of Craigslist. Then, if we actually want to keep on raising them for meat, we can get the breed we actually want.


----------



## Kaye

@Calendula try facebook. Search Michigan and rabbit together. You should come up with some group or page for rabbits in your area. I have found 3 of my does this way.


----------



## Calendula

Good idea.  I'll have to try that later when I have time. 

Any update on Annabelle?


----------



## Kaye

When you do find someone with rabbits, always check teeth and genitalia. Especially for rabbits used in breeding. If already breeding age ask about offspring and pregnancies (how many she gave birth to and how many made it to weaning age. Gestation duration)
Annnnnnd... that is all I can think of right now. Anyone to add to this??


----------



## Kaye

Calendula said:


> Good idea.  I'll have to try that later when I have time.
> 
> Any update on Annabelle?


Last time she went 31 days, but she also had a nice sized litter, we will see if she goes longer this time


----------



## Pastor Dave

Calendula said:


> Haha. With it finally snowing? Definitely not planning on any road trips!
> 
> I think we're just going to start out with some mutts from a feed store or off of Craigslist. Then, if we actually want to keep on raising them for meat, we can get the breed we actually want.


I believe the Feed store will provide you better results than CL. Just my opinion.


----------



## Calendula

Well I can't wait. I want to see some baby bunnies!

Thanks for the advice, @Kaye. I haven't bought any bunnies from a breeder yet, so any advice is helpful.
As it turns out, there were a ton of Facebook groups for my area. Even one that was a hopping club!
So I'll be sticking away from CL.

I'm editing this real quick to add...
Thank you VERY much for the great idea! I just found a Standard Rex breeder that is less than an hour away from us.


----------



## Kaye

Congrats!! I'm glad I could help!! A lot of times they're mixed breed rabbits (meat mutts), but that doesn't really matter to me.
I'm breeding for color and just learning how to tell genetics for color.
Breeding for meat, I feel like I wouldn't mind mixed breeds, either.


----------



## Kaye

*Sexing rabbits by picture examples*


When determining sex its not always reliable to go by feeling for scrotum. Reason being that males have the ability to ascend their testeis  into their abdomens. 
Look for a tiny 'pin-hole' for a buck or a little 'slit' for a female. 
The drawing shows how to hold your fingers to apply pressure. You won't hurt the rabbit if you only apply enough to make the genitalia appear 
This being said here's a few pictures to illustrate:



**these are not my pictures and I am only using theses for learning purposes. 

For my friend who had a pretty funny experience with a buck who wouldn't get pregnant. lol


----------



## Kaye

I put the box in with Annabelle. Good luck girl. It might be tonight. We will see!!


----------



## mygoldendoe

Omg (your gonna groan bless this poor girls heart)
I still can't tell a difference... maybe my vision worse than I thought but they look the same..

Eta: one just looks like a swollen version of the other..


----------



## Kaye

I will try to find better ones. lol


----------



## mygoldendoe

Maybe I'm just missing the difference..Like iv heard ppl say donut shape for boy and hamburger buns for girls but to me they just look the same. (Well in example one is more swollen looking) but maybe that's something that comes with looking at them a thousand times. Iv only looked at them maybe 3 times in the couple months iv had them...When we first got them, double checking before breeding, and then again today lol


----------



## Kaye

Maybe these will help
Circled boy then girl 
Boy
Girl
Girl
Boy


----------



## Latestarter

<blushing>


----------



## Calendula

I agree with @mygoldendoe! That first example just had one that looked more swollen.

That second example is much better.  I can kind of see the difference.


----------



## mygoldendoe

Aw yes that's much better! Thank you Kaye!!!


----------



## Kaye

Good deal. The second one is much better 


Other news: 
Day 32 and nothing. I asked hubby once again if he was sure he felt babies. He is pretty sure
I hope so


----------



## Calendula

I'll have to practice on my two pets before we get any kits. Haha.

I hope so, too. How long can they hold out on giving birth?


----------



## TAH

We had a doe go to day 34!


----------



## Kaye

I have one that goes 34 every time. I have even heard of them going to 38-40 days, but have never witnessed it myself. Small rabbits I have heard of only having 28 days gestation. 

Annabelle had three kits last night. She ate most of one, one was dead and the other one was so cold I thought it was dead. I gave it to Blossom and she tried to save it!! Whoa. I couldn't believe it. She crouched over it and let it snuggle under her and nurse. It was already off to a bad start and it ended up dying after Blossom nursed it and left the nest. I knew there was a reason I haven't let go of Blossom. She is a good surrogate mother. Anna, not so much. She has beautiful babies, but has no idea what to do with them.


----------



## mygoldendoe

Sorry to hear that you lost them


----------



## Kaye

Thanks!!
We will try again!! This is Annabelle's second time. She had them all in the box this time, so she at least had that part right.


----------



## Latestarter

IMHO 3rd time is the last "gimme"... she either gets it right or goes in the freezer... That being said... Good luck!


----------



## Calendula

I hope she can do it.


----------



## Kaye

Latestarter said:


> IMHO 3rd time is the last "gimme"... she either gets it right or goes in the freezer... That being said... Good luck!


I also have a three strikeout limit 


Calendula said:


> I hope she can do it.


I really do too. She has potential. lol


----------



## Kaye

Mocha Loppé is at day 31. So is Alice. The big difference is that Mocha has a beautiful nest made of hay, fur, and a few feathers I gave her. Alice tripped and fell backwards when she tried to pull at the hay. She's got it in the box now, but she had some help with this because she looked pitiful trying to figure it out. She's done the rest by herself and has the haystache going on now. Good luck girls!!


----------



## Calendula

I don't know if it's exhaustion or the idea of a poor pregnant bunny tripping, but I laughed when I read about Alice's little nest making experience.  I hope everything goes well! I can't wait to see pictures!


----------



## mygoldendoe

I hear that pregnancy rage (myself all the time while Prego), poor girl


----------



## Kaye

Mocha vs Alice 
Nesting instinct competition 
Round one (haha. Both first timers)


----------



## Calendula

Haha. I feel like Mocha is going to be a really good momma.  And I can't wait to see Lop babies.


----------



## Kaye

Alice is the proud mother of 6 fat little kits, or wigglers (@promiseacres calls them this and I love it!!) and Mocha is the mother of 8!! Alice had hers last night and Mocha was just 30 minutes ago.
Alice stepped her game up with the nest and has a nice amount of fur on them. She blew my mind!! They're all still fat and wiggly this morning, so I have faith that they will make it. Mocha Loppé has had a great nest for a while now, but it's now amazing!! I'm so proud of my first time girls.
The first picture is Alice's litter of 6, then Mocha's 8


----------



## Hopalong Causually

That looks great.
My two does still have three weeks to go.
I'd be elated if they combined for fourteen additions to the herd, although I've become nicely contented with the lesser amounts of feed I've had to buy the past few months.


----------



## Pastor Dave

I have 3 days left to go for 2 does and 4 days to go for 1 other doe. All approximations, of course.
I don't know abt the rest of you, but my buck seems to do best if he only has 2 girls to service a day. I bred one doe in the morning, and one at night.
So, waited til the next day for the third doe.
I generally don't have 3 ready at one time, but making up from a rough Fall/Winter.
Congrats on the new kits @Kaye


----------



## Hopalong Causually

I've wondered about the limits of service one could get from a buck.  I bred the one doe one day and waited till the next day to do the other for just that reason.  If all goes well, I'll keep a good buck for future breeding from one of the two litters currently in the oven.


----------



## Kaye

All 14 kits are fat and wiggly!! I'm happy that they're all doing great. Mocha has increased her feed intake by 3 and Alice is maybe 1/2x's more than usual. The two extra kits are taking a lot out of Mocha already. Going to look for a nice supplement to help Mocha keep up. 
They're both shaping up to be great mothers. Alice is pretty easy going about my being able to pick up and examine the kits, but Mocha only tolerates it. If one makes a noise she  growls and jumps. But I'm excited she's such a sweet rabbit these days. @TAH saved her little loppy butt. lol
@Hopalong Causually I'm about to up my feed bill a good bit. lol. I am not really looking forward to the pain. @Pastor Dave I only have one kit to show from three litters. I also had a bad fall/winter. I would actually have had two kits to show for it, but had to cull the little splay leg black kit just a few days ago due to the development of sores on the inside of the legs. Thanks for your congratulations on the new litters!! 

And I wish you both good luck on your upcoming litters!!


----------



## Kaye

I also give my main buck as long as it takes him to lose interest because he is a very gentle boy. He's never been pushy. 
With my back up buck I have to take the doe out as soon as I see him fall off twice as the first time he never actually 'makes contact' with her. As soon as he does he wants to be mean to her. Like bites her tail and pulls her around and crazy things that rabbits shouldn't do to each other. But he produces large litters with nice colors. Most of them with broken patterns, so I keep him. Until I can find a better replacement he will stay as a backup


----------



## Kaye

This morning one of Alice's kits was stuck between the box and the wall of the hutch. Almost frozen. Warmed it up and put it back with the other kits. So far so good. 
All 14 are still alive and well and momma buns are great


----------



## Pastor Dave

Good save!
Hopefully it was found in time and be just fine now.


----------



## Hopalong Causually

Pastor Dave,
Any new kits yet?


----------



## Pastor Dave

Yes. One doe got ready first, and pulled hair last night, but another one did all the work during the night. She has 5 kits this am. Kinda small litter, but at least she had some.
The first will probably go today.
A third doe was bred a day after the first two and her nest is made and she seems ready as well.
I expect to have 3 new litters within the next day or two.


----------



## Kaye

We had a great tragedy today when I walked into the bunny shed I saw Alice sitting in the nest box. She squished them. All 6 of them!!
She seemed to be having a hard time with my taking her nest box out. I am almost positive that this was just a first time mom thing. 
Mocha Loppé still has all eight of her kits and they're growing like crazy!!
Alice did at least feed hers before she squished them.... they all had fat bellies. I have two big breedings coming up with Avalanche being 7 months old now. And Annabelle is on her second chance. Alice will be breeding again to a buck from one of Thumpers litters. Elsa's baby is around 10 weeks old now and I haven't even checked the gender. anyway, Elsa is my second 'big breeding' that is coming up. She has such beautiful colored kits. This has been a very crazy adventure so far into my rabbit breeding for color. I have learned a lot and unfortunately I have also lost a lot. 
But I believe that it will be a better season after it warms up a little bit. Like around my birthday. Late March seems like a good time. These 8 of Mocha's will be the last for now. I love them an I will continue to try my best to keep them alive and well


----------



## promiseacres

Seems when it's cold the mamas love the nest boxes... I have had to pull the boxes and only let them have them 2x a day to keep the entire litter getting squished. :/ especially young mothers.  they just don't seem to realize they squish their babies.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Mine have either matured more by next kindle or seem to learn from their mistakes. Idk, but they do usually do better if given a chance next time around.
I too have noted mentally which ones had complications and tried to compensate next time around.
I had a doe that I gave straw to in her cage for bedding when it was below freezing, along with all my rabbits. She made her nest in the straw rather than the nest box and they froze. It was my fault, not hers, but this time around I didn't give her the straw and it forced her to kindle in the box.
So, lesson learned on my part.
Not much you can do abt the doe smothering the litter, not like sows that you can protect her litter from.
I imagine the doe knows what happened and will do better next time. Some rabbit breeders won't breed in late Fall and winter due to so many complications, but then you know you won't have any results, so we gamble ☺


----------



## Kaye

Mocha's babies!!


----------



## TAH

Love the colors! 

I can't wait to get rabbits again!


----------



## Kaye

Oh I love the white foot!!


----------



## Pastor Dave

Over the weekend I have 18 new kits between 3 does.
2 small litters and a decent sized one. I fostered 2 from the larger litter to the other does and now all 3 are nursing 6 apiece.


----------



## Kaye

Pastor Dave said:


> Over the weekend I have 18 new kits between 3 does.
> 2 small litters and a decent sized one. I fostered 2 from the larger litter to the other does and now all 3 are nursing 6 apiece.


Congrats!!! I love new babies!! Please feel free to post pictures here!! I would love to see them

My 8 are a week old now and are all doing great!! We're going to be opening our eyes soon. And we are very wiggley!!


----------



## Kaye

All 8


----------



## Kaye

And Mocha being nosy


----------



## Kaye

My box of chocolates 
5 milk chocolate and 3 dark chocolate. Haha
I have two that ears is starting to lop already!!


----------



## Kaye

@Pastor Dave 
How are your kits??


----------



## Pastor Dave

Pretty well.
One doe is down to 5 from 6, but I was already watching for it.
Still have 17 out of 18 left. I will try to get some pics one of these days. Usually rushed for time when I am out there with them.
Thanks for asking


----------



## Pastor Dave

I have 15 left out of 18 kits born a week ago today, Friday, and Saturday.
I feel the rest may be in the clear.
Here is a pic of one of the litters.
The buck is a mystery. I got him with the cage a year and half ago. He has a great disposition and looks like a white lop with light gray ears.
The does are all NZW, and every kit looks like a broken pattern white and black.


----------



## Bunnylady

@Pastor Dave - these kits are agouti patterned (see the white insides of the ears?) so they will probably turn out to be broken chestnuts (though they might be broken chinchillas, too). Since all of them are brokens, I'm thinking that your buck is what we call a "Charlie;" a rabbit that has two copies of the broken pattern gene. Charlies typically have very little color; often just on the ears, around the eyes, maybe a little bit on the nose, and a spot or two on the body.


----------



## Kaye

I agree with @Bunnylady those are very beautiful broken agouti kits. I love them. The ears are what really gives it away. The white inside laced with dark. Is agouti. Even my agouti bobcats have the dark laced ears


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## Pastor Dave

I will get a good pic of him one of these days. Like I said, when I tried getting my operation set up late summer of '15, the lady sold me 4 or 5 cages in which was occupied the buck in question, a NZW Jr doe, and a brownish red satin Jr doe. I still have the NZW doe , and she has been a great breeder. The brown doe and the buck had some neat color combinations. Browns, blacks, and even a silvery color with black mixed in evenly. Hard to describe that color.
@Bunnylady, did I see something on here very recently abt being careful of breeding a broken pattern gene recepient that had two sets due to digestion concerns? I would like to save a buck sometime out of this Charlie just because he is so mild dispositioned. Is that still safe?
Oh, and speaking if which. I saved a Jr doe from the brown/red Satin doe and the Charlie buck. She appears to be white with broken brown pattern. Her ears look like they will stand up. I'll get a pic of her also. Her mother was fairly calm too, so I wanted to save one of her does. 
Sorry, lots if questions today Thanks


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## Pastor Dave

This is Gilbert. He is the male discussed earlier.


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## Pastor Dave




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## Pastor Dave

It's hard to tell, but he has blue eyes.
Here is a litter of his from another NZW doe.


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## Pastor Dave

This is the Jr doe that came from a brownish - red Satin mutt doe. Her dad is Gilbert.


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## Kaye

Gilbert is a Charlie.  Lol
He is absolutely beautiful. I would say he has shown you everything he has to provide as far as his main color genetics. If you keep a buck from him you could breed him to a NZW and he can show you more about Gilbert's possibilities, when breeding for color anyway.
At the moment I am setting up a breeding with Avalanche to Thumper 's orange buck. His new owners were fine with me having full breeding rights. Anyway he should be able to show me more about his parents. He isn't quite ready yet, but I know he's close enough to make a date.
Anyway I think your Gilbert is stunning and I wish you were closer so we could see what would come from him and Mocha!!


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## Pastor Dave

The ironic thing is that the lady I got him from was downsizing, but wouldn't just get rid of cages. I had to take what was in them.
I got 5 cages with feeders, 4 rabbits, a bucket of feed, and a bale of hay and bale of straw for $95.
She said if I didn't want the buck, I could practice butchering on him since it had been twenty years. I said my plans did not include using a lop as my buck to breed for meat purposes. I thought my wife was going to get her first taste of domestic rabbit from Gilbert. She pretty much decided right off she wanted him saved.
I finally used him to breed while getting tired of waiting for the NZW Jr buck I purchased. He did well, and even after the NZW buck matured, went from a back-up to the better of the two for breeding.
He's a lot friendlier too!


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## Kaye

What a deal!!
I agree with your wife he needed to be saved  how many kits does he average in his litters??


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## mygoldendoe

I hate I haven't been able to view other ppls things lately. Only have time to update my own and get back to everything else.  Im sorry Alice squished her babies but loved seeing the other babies. Love the colors! Tiny feet and ears, babies are adorable.


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## Pastor Dave

Kaye said:


> What a deal!!
> I agree with your wife he needed to be saved  how many kits does he average in his litters??



He bred a first time NZW doe, and she had 10, I believe 7 made it from that litter.
Since then the numbers have been around 6-8.


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## Kaye

Pastor Dave said:


> He bred a first time NZW doe, and she had 10, I believe 7 made it from that litter.
> Since then the numbers have been around 6-8.


Nice numbers. He was definitely worth it 

I have found a beautiful black lop buck who averaged around 6 almost every time. She's lost 3 since the last post. The weather literally went from 80 to 30 over night a few nights ago. They're exploring the entire cage now, and those 3 didn't get back in the nest. They were all huddled in the corner outside of the box. We still have 5/8, so I still feel good about the litter


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## Pastor Dave

Yah, we had a similar incident yesterday.
It had been warm and then got down quite cool during the night. One bunny abt 10 days old had got out of the nest box and couldn't get back in. I found it dead and cold. This particular doe has stayed with and kept bunnies warm with her dewlap in the past, but not this time.

This morning when I went out to feed, the same doe turned around to greet me/ask for treats, and was keeping a bunny warm in front of her. I put it back in the nest warm, live, and well.


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## Kaye

They can be quite unpredictable sometimes. Even though you think you have figured out her personality, she throws you. lol 
I'm sorry about the loss


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## Kaye

My little box of chocolates. lol 
The agouti with one white boot has my heart. He looks so much like Thumper. He's a little lighter color than his father, but with the same markings


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## Kaye

Oh my daughter is the funniest little girl.... Avalanche always lets me know when she is out of water by throwing her water bowl at the door and thumping very loudly. She did this, so I went to give her a drink and Boogsey had given her a popcicle. When questioned about it she says she gave her a popcicle because she was thirsty and hot. Besides, she couldn't lift the jug of water all the way. I guess the only reasonable thing to do was to give her an orange popcicle. 
Touché kiddo, touché


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## Kaye

I am going to post some of the cutest pictures of my kits tomorrow (if I can. I'm almost out of data). I might only post a couple, but I do like to show them off. lol 
I have been a little busy (and sick with a sinus infection more recently) lately with my daughters birthday stuff, but I just wanted to update that my bunnies are great


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## Pastor Dave

This doe doesn't mind in the cooler months when they climb on and keep warm.


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## Pastor Dave

I had a recommendation a while ago from @samssimonsays to use Vetericyn for sores and bites, abrasions, etc.
It works so good, and is not harmful to lick or eyes.
Today, I used it for a 3 week old with matted eye that has some infection.

I also used it on my friendly buck, Gilbert.
He is a great sire. Eager and doesn't give up, but gentle. The does that mount him sometimes leave bite injuries on his back similar to what some bucks leave behind on the does. He has one scab that needed attention.

If you do not have this stuff, get it. It is kinda expensive, but lasts a long time.


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## samssimonsays

Yes! It is a life saver. It works on pressure sores. Bites. Eyes. Scratches. I've used it on myself at shows from a scratch and it doesn't burn or leave that oily residue. I recently used it on our dog who had two spots of skin skinned off her from the other dog while playing. It was nasty. About 5"x5" in one spot and maybe 6x3 in the other. Used that twice a day and it kept her infection free. Her hair also started to regrow after only a week which it was bad enough where it would have taken much longer otherwise. She's a collie with lots of hair so it is very noticeable lol.


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## Pastor Dave

samssimonsays said:


> Yes! It is a life saver. It works on pressure sores. Bites. Eyes. Scratches. I've used it on myself at shows from a scratch and it doesn't burn or leave that oily residue. I recently used it on our dog who had two spots of skin skinned off her from the other dog while playing. It was nasty. About 5"x5" in one spot and maybe 6x3 in the other. Used that twice a day and it kept her infection free. Her hair also started to regrow after only a week which it was bad enough where it would have taken much longer otherwise. She's a collie with lots of hair so it is very noticeable lol.


Sam, we could do a commercial for the product.


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## Kaye

I need this in my life. I just got a lop doe that was attacked by the other doe she was housed with. She has some nice bite marks on her ears and some missing fur from the other doe ripping it off her back. 

Also:  
I got three rabbits and a grow out cage. The (black) lop doe, an unknown breed tri-color Charlie doe, and a black lop buck (the black lop doe's brother). They were all in the same cage, The before mentioned grow out cage. The lops are both 5 months old and the tri Charlie doe is 6 months old. Needless to say, the smaller doe was being assaulted by both, the newly sexually active buck and the older doe. So she has some boo boos. Bad ones. 
I promise to post some pictures later on. Of my kits and the new buns


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## Kaye

Three new buns 
Tricolor Charlie doe 
Black lop doe (has bites on her ears)
Black lop buck


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## Kaye

The babies


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## Marie28

So cute!


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## Kaye

Honey (the tri-color Charlie) and her kits. 
It's been a while since I have updated


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## Kaye

Ember and her kits.


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## Kaye

Alice and her kits, hers are almost weaned now


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## Kaye

I have bread Mocha and Jack (the black lop buck) 3 times now. If she doesn't kindle this time i will be getting rid of Jack. I wish you the best of luck in these next few days, Jack.


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## Kaye

Honey's kits have their eyes open!!
Ember's kits are everywhere and won't stay in the nest. They crawl around after her. I put them back every morning. They're all growing so fast!!
I have also noticed that my does nurse around 4-5 times a day, whereas everyone else has rabbits that only nurse twice a day as a 'rule'. My does also wean the kits at 4 weeks instead of the 6-8 as others' does go. I'm not really worried about it. They all are doing good


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## Pastor Dave

My does try to wean at 4 weeks too, but I catch them a time or two a day nursing so they aren't so engorged. I usually wean at 5 or 6 weeks, and catch them nursing up til they're taken away.

When I see the kits scampering around and climbing back in the nest box, I quit putting them back in, figuring they got this. If it gets too warm, I may take the box out around 14 days. In the winter, I usually have to evict them from the box at 18 days.


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## Kaye

I'm getting rid of Jack... he is very sweet, but I have no use for a buck that doesn't produce


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## Kaye

I have 3 curly haired kits out of 7 of the same litter. If I am understanding this correctly, and someone please correct me if not, it comes from the Rex type fur. A mutation of some sort. 
Now, this is just what I figured happened. The mother of the rabbits is a red rex(mother) and black holland lop (father) mix. To my understanding it was the longer fur of the father rabbit mixed with the Rex fur of the mother to produce a kit that carried the curly gene (Ember, my mother rabbit). Now when I bread that kit to my friends rabbit (who I don't know much about) I get 3/7 kits with curly fur. 
What gene caused the curly fur??
If bread back to the mother could there be more curly hair kits??
Any help would be nice


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## Bunnylady

Wavy is an entirely separate gene from coat length. It is also recessive, which means that for you to be seeing wavy/curly coats, both parents have to have the gene. It's pretty uncommon; though it can occur separate from the Rex coat, there is a curly-coated Rex variety known as the Astrex that a few people are breeding and consider it a breed. I have seen a few Harlequins that have Astrex coats, and have heard that in Europe, Harlies can be shown in normal, Rex, and Astrex coats.

If you have curly-coated babies, you know that both the mother and the father are carrying a gene for wavy. If you breed a curly baby to either the mother or the father, you should get some wavy/curly coated offspring.

Something else to note is that sometimes, Rex babies will look like they have a bit of wave to the coat as babies, but as their denser junior coats grow in, the waviness disappears.


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## Kaye

Okay. I'm going to try for curly kits when old enough. I'm wondering if theirs will go away... it seems to be curling up more and more, but it is only the baby coat. 
I hope it doesn't. They're awesome looking little buns


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## Kaye

3 new kits!!


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## Kaye

S'mores and her 3 kits!!


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## animalmom

Too sweet!  Thanks for sharing.


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## Kaye

I'm working on getting enough of my own born to here kits to start my own pedigrees. So far these three are my first 'partial pedigreed' buns and I am very excited about this!! I'm staying with my main buck's line, as my second buck is his grandson


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## Kaye

Look at these fat belly rabbits!! Mom is feeding them around 6x a day. She has a lot of milk!! I swear it feels like every time I walk over to her cage she's nursing those fats. They're growing twice as fast as my others did


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## promiseacres

fat bunny tummies!


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## Kaye

I'm so proud of these three!! Eyes are open now!!


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## Kaye

Alice just kindled 9 kits!! One was very underdeveloped and I think was still born, but the other 8 are live and wiggly!! Alice wants out of the cage, like "okay there they are. Can I leave now??" Lol
I also have two litters coming up for sale!! Three of the babies still have curly fur and it's curling more. They will be ready on the 27th of this month. They're growing so fast!! 
I decided to breed My Holland (Mocha) to a beautiful English lop (Prince) and the babies are due the 30th of October!! I'm very excited about this litter. Mocha lifted as soon as she met him and he fell off 3 times. Love at first sight!! Lol 
My three littles are moving around the cage and bugging mom all the time now!! They've gotten so big 
I'm planning on keeping the blue tort regardless of gender. I usually only keep does


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## Kaye

If any of you are on Facebook like my page!! 
https://www.facebook.com/backyardbuns/


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## Kaye

Bred these two today and had two successful fall offs!! I'm excited about some lop eared babies 
My new broken chocolate holland lop doe and the broken black stud buck is Leo. I'm hoping for some Charlie lops!!


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## Kaye

My two new dwarf bunnies I'm picking up on the 22nd!! I'm so excited!!


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## Kaye

I have a new Flemish giant doe (last picture) now!! I'm getting two more Flemish on Tuesday (grey doe and orange buck)


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## Kaye

The hobby rabbitry that's closest to me just got this doe, Delilah. Beautiful markings. I will be breeding with my buck when I get him. I saw Delilah and begged the girl at the rabbitry to get her with the promise of breeding with my buck. I'm coming up in the rabbit world. lol


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## Kaye

Alice kits!!


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## animalmom

Precious!


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## Pastor Dave

Kaye said:


> My two new dwarf bunnies I'm picking up on the 22nd!! I'm so excited!!



Are these dwarf or Dutch? They are pretty.


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## Bunnylady

Pastor Dave said:


> Are these dwarf or Dutch? They are pretty.



Look like Vienna Marked (VM) Dwarfs, which is what Delilah looks sorta like, too.


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## Kaye

They are dwarfs, but not show quality. I have a doe that is show quality, but she won't have anything to do with breeding. I'm not sure what to do with her....


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## Kaye

Can anyone explain the Vienna gene to me??


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## Bunnylady

Two copies of the Vienna gene (VV) is a Blue-eyed White; a completely white rabbit with cornflower blue eyes. One copy of Vienna (Vv) is usually what is called Vienna marked (VM). VM rabbits may have just a little bit of white on the nose or toes, but they often have a lot more than that, in what may look surprisingly like the pattern on a Dutch rabbit. VM may have normal colored eyes, blue eyes, or even one of each. Sometimes you can get what is known as a Vienna carrier, or VC. A VC looks like a normal colored rabbit without Vienna, even though it actually has one copy of the Vienna gene. About the only ways you can be sure a rabbit is a VC is to test breed it, or if you know it had a BEW parent.


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## Kaye

@Bunnylady thank you so much. I was asking bc I am almost 100% positive that Thumper (being part Dutch) carries Vienna. He produces babies with 'almost vm' markings and beautiful eyes. Could he produce vm babies if bred to a vm doe?? How exactly do I test breed him?? Do I need another Dutch to breed him to?? Or do I need a bew??
I'm sorry for all these questions


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## Bunnylady

I'm not clear on what you mean by "almost VM" markings. VM markings can be anything from a tiny white snip on the nose or a couple of white toes to what looks like a full Dutch pattern (though the blaze is often pretty lopsided, while true Dutch usually have fairly symmetrical blazes). Dutch can produce a similar range of expressions; from just a mark on the forehead to the full pattern. Though they can look alike, Dutch (Du) and Vienna (V) are NOT the same thing. A rabbit could _possibly_ be both, but it's much more likely to be one or the other. A rabbit with Du is not going to throw blue eyes. If you are getting babies with bright blue eyes (not gray-blue, but bright blue), then you are looking at Vienna. If you breed two Vienna Marked rabbits together, one possible result is a Blue-eyed White (BEW), in addition to Vienna Marked. The only way to get a BEW is if both parents are carrying Vienna, so if you breed your buck to one of those VM does and get a BEW baby, your question should be answered. On the other hand, if he is Dutch (Du) and not Vienna (V), you could breed him to VM does until the cows come home, and not get a BEW baby.


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## Kaye

@Bunnylady you have answered my questions once again!! And once again thank you for your answers!!


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## Kaye

View attachment 38672 View attachment 38673 @Bunnylady  this is what I mean by his kits being 'almost vm' can you see what I mean about the pretty eyes??


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## Kaye

Sorry, I don't know why my pictures aren't showing up


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## Kaye

Luna and Tagalong


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## Bunnylady

Kaye said:


> Sorry, I don't know why my pictures aren't showing up



What I see here is the normal eye color of a chocolate (which is this rabbit's color)?


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## Kaye

Yes. Her eyes are a lot more bluish in person and a lot different than her mother's. He mother is a chocolate as well, but with chocolate eyes


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## Kaye

Has anyone ever partnered up with another rabbitry?? Or know of anyone doing so?? I'm thinking about merging with another rabbitry and just have two locations...
Any insight into this is appreciated


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## Kaye

S&K's Mocha (holland lop) x S&K's Prince (English lop)
3 kits 
What color are they?? Almost black, but silver/grey over the dark... is that seal??


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