# Jersey Bull Calf rolling off his front hooves.



## mrsmucker (Jun 13, 2012)

Good morning, I am a glutton for punishment, and have six banded Jersey bull calves I've adopted for a small fee from a local group of dairy farmers. I managed to raise 15 of these last year, and had my share of issues both good and bad. However, this condition has me stumped.

The calf is three days old, has had it Celinium shot and is newly banded. He is a nice big healthy calf, with nice bone structure and generally speaking is slightly above average in appearance for size... but ever so slightly. His hair looks good and natural and his breathing and bays look and sound like a healthy calf should, but he keeps rolling forward on his hooves and then walks on the tops of his hooves rather than the bottoms. Looks very painful, but he still seems to keep trying to right them and walk about the pen.

The bigger and more urgent issue... he will not suck. I have tried over and over, and last night, finally resorted to tubing him. Never seems to go well, but I did it a lot last year on some others with health issues and made it through with them.... ( I think they made it.... some did, some didn't maybe.)

Could the issues be related, I had Dobermans do this as pups and it was a calcium deficiency, and after adding calcium in their diets, they stood right back up. Are cows similar?

Any suggestions?


----------



## redtailgal (Jun 13, 2012)

Hi there!  I raised Dobes too for a while.  Wonderful dogs.

Its not unusual for a calf to have the leg trouble that you are speaking of.  SOme folks wrap the leg to give them extra support, but usually it will clear up on its own.  I see that you've already given selenium, so be patient give that some time to kick in.  MOST of the time, that leg situation corrects itself usually within the first week, but I had one taht took a couple weeks to develope the strength needed in those legs.  IF you really want to get involved, some light massage and range of motion work with him will speed up the process.

As far as not suckling,  check for a  deformity.  If you find none, then let him get good an hungry, tube him ONLY when he starts to act weak.  Dont try to feed him very often, even he he is still refusing.  Trying often will frustrate him and make it harder for him to learn to take the bottle.

Will he suck your finger?  If he will suck your finger there is no reason why he cant take a bottle, you'll just have to be persistent and a a little hard hearted for a day or two.

You can cover the nipple with a little brown sugar or molasses to peak his interest.

ALso, have you considered offering him his milk in a bucket (I'm a strong advocate of bucket training early on bottle calves).  I've had a few that just WOULD NOT take a nipple but did great off a bucket....never suckled a day in their life.

At this age, I dont think it would be the same calcium issue that we would see with our dobes.  He sounds like a normal calf that is just a little bullheaded.  

Again, dont tube unless he shows signs of weakness.......he'll get lazy and expect you to do it for him.  I had a lil heifer once who wouldnt suck, but opened her mouth eagerly for the tube, and would willingly SWALLOW it for me, because I tubed her too often.

If this doesnt work let us know.


----------



## Cricket (Jun 13, 2012)

Sometimes they will go for a lamb's nipple, but I'd agree with RTG on letting him get hungry.   Sounds like just plain Jersey stubborn!  There's a thread in the Emergency's section on floppy legs, too.  The vet says it's a form follows function thing.  My heifer had REALLY bad legs and it took more than a month to resolve.  Good luck!


----------



## mrsmucker (Jun 14, 2012)

I have been letting him go about 24 hours between feedings, but honestly, I can't stand seeing such a healthy young calf, not getting his nutrients, so I then tube him.  Either I'm not good at it, or he just doesn't like it... but I see no indication he wants this to continue. I am always afraid I will introduce liquid into their lungs and then have pneumonia issues. 

He is a cry baby, always giving the distinct belly cry, like "wheres my mom" kind of thing. Seems happy, spunky and tails always a twitching... but hooves are still rolling over. Yes I have considered taping them, but thought I'd give him a few more days to maybe get them straightened out. Didn't want them to atrophy from being taped.

He is always bumping the belly of his roommate, as if to say... "Hey I'm hungry" but barely will even try and suckle my fingers. He tries about a second or so, and then turns his head away.

As for the bucket thing... correct me if I'm wrong, but a very knowledgeable vet I respect once told me, not to even cut the holes in the nipples bigger. The sucking from the bottles actually stimulates the saliva and the saliva is what stimulates the digestive process. Me allowing them to suck it down with a big hole in the nipple or bucket feeding was counterproductive but trying to do eight or ten or more bottle babies at once, made me feel like I was really making things happen but was wasting product, and not getting them all the benefits of the meal I was trying to give them.

I know here in Ohio at the Wooster agricultural center, they actually have cows and calves with windows in their stomachs so they can see just whats going on and when... a lot of very important information has come out of there for the dairy industry.

Thanks again for your advice...


----------



## Cricket (Jun 14, 2012)

Sounds like a Jersey thing to me!  It's not all that uncommon, esp. if a calf has sucked off his mom.  Are you just offering the nipple and he's refusing?  I would try cutting a bigger hole in an old nipple, backing him into a corner and straddling him.  Place the nipple in his mouth and clamp his jaw shut until he gets the taste of it.   Then if he starts to suck, you can go back to the regular nipple if you want.  I'd also do what RTG said and put him on bucket if that doesn't work--seems to me as though that would be preferable to tubing.  We have a 2nd calf heifer at work who was born out to pasture and never would take a nipple--went straight to bucket (her name is Stubborn!).  At the farm they put calves on bucket at 1 week and there's some that will go 3 feedings without eating, bawling the whole time.   It's different if they are too weak to suck, but the ones that are stubborn about not eating are the ones who tend to NOT get the scours!


----------



## redtailgal (Jun 14, 2012)

I've heard that story told to people about bucket feeding not giving them enough saliva.

I just dont buy it.  I've raised ALOT (meaning hundreds) of calves, most of which were put on a bucket as early as I could do it.  My calves grow out just fine.  On average, the calves raised on a bucket had a higher weight at weaning (I'd guess a 5 to 10 percent higher weight).  They also started eating grain alot easier, and did much better at drinking water on a hot day.

Think about it this way.  With a nipple in their mouth, there is a vaccum effect in the mouth.  The constant sucking motion keep a steady flow of milk into the mouth which is bascially GUZZLED down, the milk is pretty much squirted straight down the throat.  The amount of saliva mixed with that milk is minimal.  IF a calf were to be drinking slow enough to mix saliva into the milk, something would be wrong, calves dont drink that slow and if they are forced to drink that slow with a small holed slow nipple, you end up with a frustrated calf that is too tired to finish the bottle.


That's just my opinion and experiences, you'll need to do what you are most comfortable with.  

As for getting him to take the bottle, Jerseys are known to be little buggers at time.  HIs leaving your finger after a few seconds, and his butting the belly of other calves shows that he is hungry and looking for food.  Rub a little sugar or molasses on that nipple, get him in a corner and straddle him.  Take someone to help you if you can, and force that nipple in his mouth.  GIve it a little squeeze to have him get the taste in his mouth, might take a couple times of doing it like this to have him recognize it as food (your asking him to go against his instincts).

Its hard to not tube them, but it will be better for him in the long run if you wait until he is showing signs of weakness before you tube.  Each time you tube, you put pressure on the esophagus, cause friction on the esophagus, and run the risk of him aspirating.  ALso, if you continue to tube him, he will learn to recognize the tube as the food source and not the bottle.  His growth will be poor like this.  He may drop a little weight right now, but his gain will be much better in the long run.


----------



## Cricket (Jun 14, 2012)

Another way to think about it is that  going 24 hours UNTIL you tube him means that he has only missed ONE meal.


----------



## mrsmucker (Jun 15, 2012)

Success I kept trying all suggestions but at 2:30 in the morning, when I am heading out for an 11 hour shift, it gets frustrating and darn right irritating 

I noticed this morning he had his cell mate darn near herniated from nursing where he shouldnt be nursing, so made one last ditch effort of getting him separated from the second calf and after much diligence, he took  of a bottle with me holding it and following him around reinforcing the fact it was the only way he was getting fed this morning, and then actually got him to finish the bottle while in the bottle holder on the cattle panel.

Lesson learned keep other source of entertainment away Perhaps because I was filling his belly and he was suckling from the belly of the other, he still felt he was doing the right thing and getting fed so perhaps problem solved.

Now if we can get him to walk on the bottoms of his hooves instead of the tops well be standing in tall cotton.

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement. After fighting so many battles and losing so few with these orphaned calves with scours and every other issue Ive dealt with the last two years I thought this one was going to expire just from having too many issues to deal with all on one calf. I really think hes going to be fine. 

So one behalf of Jersey #20, Jersey #21, my daughter and myself, I again thank you all.


----------



## Cricket (Jun 15, 2012)

That's so good to hear!  As far as the hooves go--can you cut him loose a couple times a day?  Being loose really helps them work out those problems.


----------



## mrsmucker (Jun 18, 2012)

Cricket said:
			
		

> That's so good to hear!  As far as the hooves go--can you cut him loose a couple times a day?  Being loose really helps them work out those problems.


Actually I never tie them up... I have them in small 10 x 12 stalls, four to a stall, inside a rather creative pole barn I built that is almost all doors. It makes for a nice even temperature slightly breezy place for them to live and grow until I put them out in the pasture.

I think it has made such a difference on their health and well being over the ones I raised last year, giving them a small barn to retreat to when weather was bad. They ended up getting to hot when it was hot and to cold when it was cold. These new babies are much healthier and content.


----------



## mrsmucker (Jun 18, 2012)

I'd say the hoof problem is everything but gone. There are 3 in his stall, #20, #21 and #22... I have to now read the ear tags to know which one it was that was having the hoof issues.

Now I have two in another pen who at nearly a month old, decided to get some form of scours... 
diarrhea.

Guess I'll start reading more blogs about that. I've read and tried in the past apple cider vinegar and nutmeg... any other suggestions?


----------



## Cricket (Jun 18, 2012)

I'd look at coccidiosis.  There is Corid (they have a website) which I guess just treats that.  The first time I used it, I split the dose (which is miniscule) and it came right back in less than a week.  The second time I did the dose just once per day and he was good to go.  He gets grain with a coccidiant in it.  I know people who treat with Sulmet, but it doesn't say specifically to use it on calves and I don't know why. (That is on my 'ask the vet' list.)  Don't know if it's considered overkill, as it is a treatment for bacterial scours also.

Thanks for the update on the calf with floppy ankles--hard to believe they come out so well, isn't it?


----------

