# Anemic doe



## terrilhb

I have a 7 year old doe. She kidded in May of 2017. She was in perfect condition before birthing. After birthing she was good. Around the end of  October she started going down hill. Weight wise. Had our vet come out and check her. She checked her from head to toe. Did blood work and a fecal. A little worms so she wormed her. Blood work came back and she was anemic. Fed her what the vet recommended. 2 cups in the evening and 1\2 cup in the morning. She seemed to be doing better. But is now going down hill again. Her symptoms then and know if important is if someone bumps her she falls over and can not get back up until I help her. I have started giving her because of the cold here  warm water all day with molasses in it. Vitamin B Complex Plus shot 1 time a day and 6cc's of Red Cell. She is down to 100 pounds. Also adding shredded beet pulp to her feed. She always has fresh water and hay. Her temp is good and she is eating and chewing her cud. Anyone have any suggestions on what else I can do to help her? Thank you.


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## Southern by choice

How often are you giving the redcell?
I see a fecal was run in Oct... how about since then?


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## terrilhb

Again in November. I just started the red cell today. I read to do 6cc's for 3 or 4 days and then cut in half. I am giving it to her one time a day. I did deworm her again yesterday with safeguard. Because last month she had prohibit worming.


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## Southern by choice

Great you are working with a vet! 
Sounds like you are doing everything you can and the vet has too.

I really want to keep up on this thread and see how things progress because we had a doe do something like this. She recovered. I can share more later.
But, no known reason why she literally stopped eating and lost 60 lbs- went down to 100 in about 6 weeks ... our vet was stumped... we pumped her full of vitamins, eventually did redcell.... she ended up eating and gained 30 lbs back in a month. She is fine now but still it was scary. No rhyme or reason.

Is your goat tested for CAE? CL? Johnes? or any of those?


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## terrilhb

Yes they have been tested and are good. May I ask what vitamins you gave her? I also give pumpkin seed powder  once a month


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## Goat Whisperer

Check her fecal again. Deworm if needed (probably so) and check fecal again in 10 days to see reduction %. What dewormer are you using? Are you giving several doses to break the parasite lifecycle? 

barberpole and liver flukes look very similar under the scope, you might want to ask your vet about treating her for LF as a precaution.

Will the doe eat any more feed? 2.5 cups for a standard breed is not going to do much at all. Especially when they are already compromised.


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## OneFineAcre

I don't know where the Op lives but if it is cold like where we are I don't know why you would do a fecal now


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## Goat Whisperer

Why do you say that?
I wait for a fresh sample.

ETA OP lives in GA
So warmer than NC anyway. 

But I don’t care where you live. If you get a fresh sample it wouldn’t matter.


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## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> I don't know where the Op lives but if it is cold like where we are I don't know why you would do a fecal now


If follow through on dewormers didn't happen , or certain dewormers aren't working then parasites are still multiplying. If the goat is suffering immune issues then parasites will multiply. Weather doesn't stop intestinal parasites.  

We started with B- complex, gave A,D, & E (I think) , also gave copper I think we even gave BOSE.... she was not parasitic either. We then gave cobalt sulfate. When we started the red cell it was really out of desperation. She was very anemic, and literally would NOT eat- only grass. No hay, no feed, nothing. Grass. But it was very rainy and the grass was more water than nutrient filled. She didn't even want leaves, brush.


Our vet was shocked to see her recovery. We were too.


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## kuwaiti-90

@terrilhb 

Hello.

I hope you are doing well in the current time.
I do not give any vitamins or nutritional supplements to him.

It is often necessary to make sure that it is free of worms and coccidi ...

Second, starting a blood test, until you know anemia or other things such as liver and kidney function ..

Finally, you begin treatment with intravenous solutions that feed them with vitamins and iron cells

In the case of giving any vitamins with the presence of worms and coccidiosis, even if it is simple it will increase rapidly and quickly worsen ..

I wish her a speedy recovery ..


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## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> If follow through on dewormers didn't happen , or certain dewormers aren't working then parasites are still multiplying. If the goat is suffering immune issues then parasites will multiply. Weather doesn't stop intestinal parasites.
> 
> We started with B- complex, gave A,D, & E (I think) , also gave copper I think we even gave BOSE.... she was not parasitic either. We then gave cobalt sulfate. When we started the red cell it was really out of desperation. She was very anemic, and literally would NOT eat- only grass. No hay, no feed, nothing. Grass. But it was very rainy and the grass was more water than nutrient filled. She didn't even want leaves, brush.
> 
> 
> Our vet was shocked to see her recovery. We were too.


I'm going by what our friend in the goat club Heather said (PhD)
Intestinal parasites hibernate when its cold


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## RoahT

Hope she gets better soon! I'm glad to hear you have a good vet to help you!


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## Latestarter

PhD...  OK... in what?   just curious. If veterinary, I would have expected DVm vice PhD... Never heard of an internal parasite hibernating when it's internal... hence at normal operating temperature.


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## Goat Whisperer

OneFineAcre said:


> I'm going by what our friend in the goat club Heather said (PhD)
> Intestinal parasites hibernate when its cold



I haven’t seen that either.
If it’s inside the goat I would think it doesn’t really matter. OFA do you have a link to support that? I’m not really understanding.

So when it’s cold outside, but the internal temp of the goat is 101-103 degrees the parasites hibernate inside the goat? I know many who have lost goats to parasites, in the bitter cold, up north.

Now, the parasites that are already expelled from the goat, those will go dormant.

But if the doe is anemic from parasites that would lead me to believe they are not dormant.
I think another fecal would be wise to at least rule parasites out.


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## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> I'm going by what our friend in the goat club Heather said (PhD)
> Intestinal parasites hibernate when its cold



External yes-
Internal no-
Parasites do not hibernate inside the goat.
What is internally in the goat is in the goat.


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## RoahT

I agree with Southern by choice, no matter how cold it is outside inside the goat it is still warm!


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## terrilhb

Goat Whisperer said:


> Check her fecal again. Deworm if needed (probably so) and check fecal again in 10 days to see reduction %. What dewormer are you using? Are you giving several doses to break the parasite lifecycle?
> 
> barberpole and liver flukes look very similar under the scope, you might want to ask your vet about treating her for LF as a precaution.
> 
> Will the doe eat any more feed? 2.5 cups for a standard breed is not going to do much at all. Especially when they are already compromised.


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## terrilhb

She will eat more then 2 and a half cups. She would eat all I give her. Today she walked more and followed me and her eyes looked a little brighter. Cautiously optimistic.


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## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> PhD...  OK... in what?   just curious. If veterinary, I would have expected DVm vice PhD... Never heard of an internal parasite hibernating when it's internal... hence at normal operating temperature.



Her PhD is in Animal Science from NC State Univeristy
She is currently a professor in Animal.Science at another university
And she owns a large herd of Boer goats
Her specialty was pasture and parasite management
She helped run the goat unit at the research farm
She worked under a widely regarded expert in the subject actually
It seems perfectly logical to me
The internal temp of the host is irrelevant

Every other animal in the entire animal kingdom reproduces when their off spring has the best chance of survival

I'm a little surprised at the reaction to my comment
@Latestarter what are your current EPG counts on your goats?
Listen 
I might debate the dynamic.duo.about goats 
But not you


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## OneFineAcre

I've never run a fecal in a goat in the winter
And I've never lost a goat to worms in the winter
Actually I've never lost a goat to worms in the summer either
If you are losing goats to worms in the winter time you need to get out of the goat business


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## OneFineAcre

And just because 


2 people say something is doesn't mean Its true


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## Southern by choice

Ok first let me say yes, a researcher with a PhD is certainly more qualified than a layman.
There is a bit of a disconnect here though. Which I will get to.

I do appreciate your post because I did go back to my veterinarian parasitology book and I am wrong. Which is GOOD!  Why because it this is what this forum is for.
Education and helping one another. My response is based on working with different vets that see this subject a bit different. I am also not too proud to admit an error. 
I have all my parasitology books but haven't really read or relied on them in so many years- I didn't even know this was there.

In the animal sciences there are Veterinarians, researches, and layman. Since we are talking about goats/sheep here I will restrict this to the first two.
Veterinarians and researchers do not always see eye to eye. I lean toward the researches more often then the vet side... the biggest issue is vets work in the field with seeing all the issues and the two don't always agree. Research is also ever evolving and old ways replaced with new info etc.. on and on it goes. This is not new, but rather old info. 

Now attached are pages discussing this...  I would however like to comment on what I see as a problem within the subject.
If it has to do with viability... how can it be said that in winter parasites go dormant and no need to deworm.. 
Do all parasites go dormant?
If an EPG is high in winter still don't deworm?
What about regions such as the SE where it was 70 degrees 2 weeks ago and will get back into the 50's possibly 60 soon.
What about Florida?
Winter is winter.

*I am not contending the data or info but application of use of that data.* 
Is it responsible to say no one needs to deworm in the winter?  

I have seen over the years on others farms where the vet said it is January, not the season for coccidia... yet a goat kid had diarrhea and blood. Fortunately that person felt the vet was wrong and took the fecal to Rollins lab. Loaded. Goat was treated by another vet from there on out.  Another goat vet said goat is fine goat is fine... goat died- necropsy showed Barberpole.
When a goat is sick & anemic the simplest way to determine if there is a strong load is a fecal. The goat is ill. If they are in a dormant phase the results my not be great.
A poster here on BYH lost half their herd to Liver flukes- in the winter in a very cold region. 

Personally I am not into deworming anything without an EPG.  And if I had a sick goat that was thin and anemic, winter or not, I'd run a fecal second to taking the temp. Basic husbandry.
Continuing with my vet's advice and care protocol.




OneFineAcre said:


> I've never run a fecal in a goat in the winter
> And I've never lost a goat to worms in the winter
> Actually I've never lost a goat to worms in the summer either
> If you are losing goats to worms in the winter time you need to get out of the goat business



When you lost a kid to cocci would you have wanted someone to say that to you?


 Below is some of the info mentioned above there are several more pages but this was the main portion....
(Parasitology for Veterinarians- Georgi)


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## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> And just because
> 
> 
> 2 people say something is doesn't mean Its true



You are correct- it doesn't.  

I did go back and look the info up because I felt it was worth looking into. 
Thanks for the info.. I still think application of data is not so cut/dry.


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## Latestarter

Wasn't looking for a debate. Simply curious and asked a question.


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## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> Wasn't looking for a debate. Simply curious and asked a question.


Sorry Latestarter- I wasn't referring to anything you said. 


To the original OP-
How is your girl doing?  
Have they checked her for tick borne illnesses by any chance?  It was just a thought that came to me. So many have had tick borne issues this year, all over the country.


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## terrilhb

Goat Whisperer said:


> Check her fecal again. Deworm if needed (probably so) and check fecal again in 10 days to see reduction %. What dewormer are you using? Are you giving several doses to break the parasite lifecycle?
> 
> barberpole and liver flukes look very similar under the scope, you might want to ask your vet about treating her for LF as a precaution.
> 
> Will the doe eat any more feed? 2.5 cups for a standard breed is not going to do much at all. Especially when they are already compromised.


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## terrilhb

The vet gave safeguard, Ivomec and Strongid.. I followed the next month with prohibit and this month again with safeguard.


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## terrilhb

Southern by choice said:


> Sorry Latestarter- I wasn't referring to anything you said.
> 
> 
> To the original OP-
> How is your girl doing?
> Have they checked her for tick borne illnesses by any chance?  It was just a thought that came to me. So many have had tick borne issues this year, all over the country.


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## terrilhb

No ticks, lice nor anything.


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## terrilhb

Today I am still a little guarded. I watched her all day like a hawk, I cancelled a dentist appointment tomorrow to be here to watch her. Her eyes look much brighter and she actually walked around her pen grazing and I saw her eating much more hay then she has ate in days. I fed her this morning 1/3 cup of shredded beet pulp with warm water (because in Ga it was cold with molasses.) Took out warm water with molasses to warm her up. Tonight I fed her, her regular feed (sweet feed), shredded beet pulp, Vitamins, power punch and vitamin b. I honestly due to the vets test of her fecal think it is not  a worm issue. She is an awesome vet. I am taking another fecal tomorrow. I have honestly never had a worm load issue here. Maybe lucky I do not know. I know that this health issue started a few months after her giving birth to her twins in May. This birth seemed to take more out of her then ever before. She was in excellent health before. I will never breed her again in case this was the cause. Thank you all so much for your help.


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## Southern by choice

terrilhb said:


> Today I am still a little guarded. I watched her all day like a hawk, I cancelled a dentist appointment tomorrow to be here to watch her. Her eyes look much brighter and she actually walked around her pen grazing and I saw her eating much more hay then she has ate in days. I fed her this morning 1/3 cup of shredded beet pulp with warm water (because in Ga it was cold with molasses.) Took out warm water with molasses to warm her up. Tonight I fed her, her regular feed (sweet feed), shredded beet pulp, Vitamins, power punch and vitamin b. I honestly due to the vets test of her fecal think it is not  a worm issue. She is an awesome vet. I am taking another fecal tomorrow. I have honestly never had a worm load issue here. Maybe lucky I do not know. I know that this health issue started a few months after her giving birth to her twins in May. This birth seemed to take more out of her then ever before. She was in excellent health before. I will never breed her again in case this was the cause. Thank you all so much for your help.



Didn't sound like it to me either, and your vet is working so great with you too... sounds like what we went through in a way. 
The thread got off track. So sorry Terrilhb.
Anyway, I can't blame you one bit for being a bit guarded. Cases like these are just strange. We felt pretty upset for about a month... bad upset, stressed really.
So hard when there is no rhyme or reason.
If I can just encourage you... you are doing all you can, no matter which way this goes you know you have done everything and that says alot.
I am pulling for her. Our gal was really on deaths door and she made it. 

I do have a question- are you or your vet worried about too much molasses? It can bind minerals. 
Did your vet do a blood panel?

Trying to see if there is something that your doe and my doe had in common. Ruby didn't have a parasite issue either.


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## terrilhb

Southern by choice said:


> Didn't sound like it to me either, and your vet is working so great with you too... sounds like what we went through in a way.
> The thread got off track. So sorry Terrilhb.
> Anyway, I can't blame you one bit for being a bit guarded. Cases like these are just strange. We felt pretty upset for about a month... bad upset, stressed really.
> So hard when there is no rhyme or reason.
> If I can just encourage you... you are doing all you can, no matter which way this goes you know you have done everything and that says alot.
> I am pulling for her. Our gal was really on deaths door and she made it.
> 
> I do have a question- are you or your vet worried about too much molasses? It can bind minerals.
> Did your vet do a blood panel?
> 
> Trying to see if there is something that your doe and my doe had in common. Ruby didn't have a parasite issue either.


Yes she did a blood panel. Except for being anemic everything came back good. No she did not tell me it could bind minerals. I will cut back on it and keep up with the other treatments. So far this morning she is up and eating her hay like she has not had hay for ever. LOL. Thank you so much for your support and help.


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## Southern by choice

So happy to hear she is eating hay. I know you had to be just jumping for joy inside seeing that!

I know it is a day by day roller coaster going through something like this, those glimpses of even the smallest things keep up that hope!

What is your girl's name?


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## terrilhb

Southern by choice said:


> So happy to hear she is eating hay. I know you had to be just jumping for joy inside seeing that!
> 
> I know it is a day by day roller coaster going through something like this, those glimpses of even the smallest things keep up that hope!
> 
> What is your girl's name?


Her name is Sara. She is walking  around more today. I notice her front legs are still a little weak but does not seem to be as bad. I have not had to lift her up off the ground in 2 days. I am crossing fingers too. She was my first doe. Thank you Southern for all of your encouragement and help. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. And I have given her no molasses today.


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## Southern by choice

Thank you so much for sharing. 
Sara is special to you and it shows. Even though we can love all our goats, there are some that just mean something more to us.
When we were going through this it just didn't make sense. I honestly don't think I would have believed something like this could happen if it didn't happen to us. 
I mean I would, but there is no way I would have understand the complexity.
As you know, you wrap your head around it and go over every little thing... the vet does the same... and then there is that period of such stress and sadness/
Afraid to have hope sometimes, but knowing you have to. Touching their sweet face and giving a kiss and feeling so helpless.

Hoping for that miraculous recovery for Sara like our Ruby.  She is blessed to have you, you have and still are doing an amazing job caring for her.
Very happy to hear she is walking around! Eating and walking! YES!


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## Hens and Roos

Hope Sara continues to improve for you


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## terrilhb

Southern by choice said:


> Thank you so much for sharing.
> Sara is special to you and it shows. Even though we can love all our goats, there are some that just mean something more to us.
> When we were going through this it just didn't make sense. I honestly don't think I would have believed something like this could happen if it didn't happen to us.
> I mean I would, but there is no way I would have understand the complexity.
> As you know, you wrap your head around it and go over every little thing... the vet does the same... and then there is that period of such stress and sadness/
> Afraid to have hope sometimes, but knowing you have to. Touching their sweet face and giving a kiss and feeling so helpless.
> 
> Hoping for that miraculous recovery for Sara like our Ruby.  She is blessed to have you, you have and still are doing an amazing job caring for her.
> Very happy to hear she is walking around! Eating and walking! YES!


Have you ever heard of shredded beet pulp helping? I was going to give her some CMPK tomorrow. Just in case. I know you are not a vet, but anything else to give her without hurting her but helping her to get better. I know being anemic takes a long time to recover from. Thank you


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## Southern by choice

Can you remind me, because I know sometimes changes are daily in these situations, what your daily protocol is right now... or what you did in the last week etc

I know with Ruby, some things we gave every few days, somethings everyday.
I was more the basketcase with Ruby- Goat Whisperer's tenacity and Ruby's will along with (I believe) God's hand saved her.


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## terrilhb

Southern by choice said:


> Can you remind me, because I know sometimes changes are daily in these situations, what your daily protocol is right now... or what you did in the last week etc
> 
> I know with Ruby, some things we gave every few days, somethings everyday.
> I was more the basketcase with Ruby- Goat Whisperer's I tenacity and Ruby's will along with (I believe) God's hand saved her.


 I took her off redcell. And molasses. But I am feeding her1 /3
 cup of shredded beet pulp and  vitamin b 12 pill in the morning with warm water. She eats hay all hay all day. In the evening I give her 2 cups of sweet feed and 1/3 cup of shredded beet pulp with 3 vitamin b 12 pills. I am not doing shots because it is hard to find skin to give it in. This has been since I stopped the red cell not wanting to overdose her. And I quit the molasses for now so it does not bind her loose minerals.


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## Southern by choice

How long was she on redcell?
How often? alot at first then less frequency? Like everyday then every 3 days then 1x week- (just as an example)

I would be very hesitant in adding the CMPK unless your vet says so.
Right now she is doing better so I would be cautious to add and change much.
We do use beet pulp. 
Injections when they are thin and down are just too much for them, I'm with you- if you can do it without injection that is good.

I would recommend probiotics- just straight probios. We like the powder mixed with a bit of water and drenched. If you wet the beet pulp you could sprinkle on top I imagine or maybe on the sweet feed.


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## Wehner Homestead

I wonder about some alfalfa pellets too. That would give her some extra protein for energy throughout the day since she is being held off molasses (makes sense to me why.)


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## Southern by choice

Wehner Homestead said:


> I wonder about some alfalfa pellets too. That would give her some extra protein for energy throughout the day since she is being held off molasses (makes sense to me why.)



I'm not sure if my Ruby and @terrilhb 's  Sara are suffering from the same illness, but when we went through this with Ruby she would refuse anything too high in protein or calcium... she only wanted grass. Literally grass. It was rainy here and so the grass had lots of moisture but not much nutritional content. She occasionally would accept some leaves. She didn't even want the lespedeza that grows wild here. Grass. When she finally stared eating it was grass hay- she wouldn't touch alfalfa pellets, alfalfa hay, grain- nothing. We gave her "crappy" hay and that is what she ate. She eventually worked up to orchard hay. After awhile she started eat her dairy goat pellets a bit. We did a lot of redcell then backed off to 3x week then less. Lots of probios too. 

I wonder if Sara would eat the pellets.   
We spent a fortune trying to bring in everything under the sun to get Ruby to eat.

@terrilhb  if I can find a pic of her at her worst I'll send it to you. Her eyes were sunk into her head. She was walking death.


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## Girlies' Mum

terrilhb said:


> No ticks, lice nor anything.


Hi, I lost my beloved pet sheep Bramble, aged 4 and a half to mycoplasma haemovis in September. She was always small, and had a relapsing anaemia for over a year. The mycoplasma causes the red cells to self destruct. You can sometimes see red /dark urine as breakdown products, not always.  Although it is called haemovis, I have just looked and it occurs in goats too. They (sheep anyway) sometimes make a full recovery on their own and develop resistance if they are looked after in a stress free environment, and usually recover completely with antibiotics (but may relapse). Usual antibiotics are tetracyclines or fluroquinolones such as enrofloxacin. It is not commonly seen and wee Bramble ended up in the farm hospital at the University of Edinburgh Vet School where they diagnosed it. Blood test looking specifically for mycoplasma antibodies is needed. A blood smear (film) test may help, it shows a regenerative anaemia sometimes with funny little "bits" attached the red cells. I would check with your vet about this possibility. It is not common as far as I can see, reading the literature, and caused quite a lot of excitement at the vet school. I suspect it may be commoner than is realised but under diagnosed - "sheep die" . Sadly she died with some intestinal problem and bleeding complicating it eventually. Might be worth testing for it or at least doing a blood smear (film) for microscopy while anaemic. I would hate it to be missed in somebody else's sheep or goat, if I knew about it.


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## promiseacres

Random thought. I had 2 rabbits have similar problems of refusing feed, loosing weight..I was using water bottles and did not realize these 2 were not drinking a lot. (Stupid me let it go on for several months)  I simply changed both to bowls and both are now cleaning up their pellets. It most likely is something else but so important for any livestock to have good fresh water available. Here in the Midwest winter can be very hard to keep up.


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## terrilhb

Southern by choice said:


> How long was she on redcell?
> How often? alot at first then less frequency? Like everyday then every 3 days then 1x week- (just as an example)
> 
> I would be very hesitant in adding the CMPK unless your vet says so.
> Right now she is doing better so I would be cautious to add and change much.
> We do use beet pulp.
> Injections when they are thin and down are just too much for them, I'm with you- if you can do it without injection that is good.
> 
> I would recommend probiotics- just straight probios. We like the powder mixed with a bit of water and drenched. If you wet the beet pulp you could sprinkle on top I imagine or maybe on the sweet feed.


She was on 6cc's once a day for 3 days. I started it on the 6th of Jan and quit it on the 8th. I was afraid of overdosing her.


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## jeannie66

I would suspect fluke or coccidiosis


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## cjc

My comment won’t help you but I gave birth in May and am also anemic! It’s a postpartum issue that spans to all mammals. I can relate to how your girl is feeling


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## Daxigait

terrilhb said:


> I have a 7 year old doe. She kidded in May of 2017. She was in perfect condition before birthing. After birthing she was good. Around the end of  October she started going down hill. Weight wise. Had our vet come out and check her. She checked her from head to toe. Did blood work and a fecal. A little worms so she wormed her. Blood work came back and she was anemic. Fed her what the vet recommended. 2 cups in the evening and 1\2 cup in the morning. She seemed to be doing better. But is now going down hill again. Her symptoms then and know if important is if someone bumps her she falls over and can not get back up until I help her. I have started giving her because of the cold here  warm water all day with molasses in it. Vitamin B Complex Plus shot 1 time a day and 6cc's of Red Cell. She is down to 100 pounds. Also adding shredded beet pulp to her feed. She always has fresh water and hay. Her temp is good and she is eating and chewing her cud. Anyone have any suggestions on what else I can do to help her? Thank you.



Have you treated for Anaplasmosis?


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## Southern by choice

terrilhb said:


> She was on 6cc's once a day for 3 days. I started it on the 6th of Jan and quit it on the 8th. I was afraid of overdosing her.



We did the same and then backed off... went to a slower schedule.
I will ask GW for her notes.

GW said she did 5 days straight 10-12cc...  then  backed it down to 6cc  every 3rd day... then reduced again 1x week.
At the point where she was we had nothing to lose. She was going to die.  Our vet also was out of ideas. 
But we believe it did save her life. Probios every day. 
She was 160 lbs- kidded great no issues looked fantastic... we were also co parenting so she was not dragged down by nursing... it was a very stressful ordeal. She lost 60 lbs.!!!
One she transitioned back to eating hay and increased appetite... she gained back 30 lbs in one month.
Oct his year she even went to State Fair. Her udder bounced back... she looked beautiful. 2nd place udder in her aged doe class. 
She's 8 this year! 

It seems like after you did those several days she did have some recovery! Keep up with your vet, let them know all you do and the progression. Glad you have a vet. Some are not so fortunate.
Our vet is a real blessing, wonderful to work with and bounce ideas back and forth.


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## Daxigait

Anaplasmosis causes anemia.  It often gives signs like worms or coccidia early.  It is easy to treat, but a killer through anemia if not treated before the tilting point is reached.


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## Girlies' Mum

jeannie66 said:


> I would suspect fluke or coccidiosis


I would agree liver fluke or cocci are both probably more likely, least ways in my population they would be. Do you routinely de-fluke twice or more yearly like we do? If preventative de-fluking up to date, maybe less likely. Cocci classically shows blood in stools though - though can be just failure to thrive I believe (only ever seen it with blood) . Only mentioned mycoplasma because I would hate it to be missed after losing Bramble. I don't think we get anaplasmosis over here, BTW, Mycoplasma ovis is thought to be tick borne too.


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## Girlies' Mum

Daxigait said:


> Anaplasmosis causes anemia.  It often gives signs like worms or coccidia early.  It is easy to treat, but a killer through anemia if not treated before the tilting point is reached.


very interesting.Thank you.


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## Daxigait

Girlies' Mum said:


> very interesting.Thank you.


Over here?


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## Girlies' Mum

Sorry, Scotland (UK)!


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## Daxigait

Biting flies or ticks spread it here in MO.  Late summer and fall are prime season for us.  I learned this one hard too.  Sorry about your Bramble.


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## Micky67

I have a question as I am new to goats, real new. If my goat/goats do not already have worms wouldn't the extreme cold keep them from getting them from grazing?


----------



## terrilhb

Southern by choice said:


> We did the same and then backed off... went to a slower schedule.
> I will ask GW for her notes.
> 
> GW said she did 5 days straight 10-12cc...  then  backed it down to 6cc  every 3rd day... then reduced again 1x week.
> At the point where she was we had nothing to lose. She was going to die.  Our vet also was out of ideas.
> But we believe it did save her life. Probios every day.
> She was 160 lbs- kidded great no issues looked fantastic... we were also co parenting so she was not dragged down by nursing... it was a very stressful ordeal. She lost 60 lbs.!!!
> One she transitioned back to eating hay and increased appetite... she gained back 30 lbs in one month.
> Oct his year she even went to State Fair. Her udder bounced back... she looked beautiful. 2nd place udder in her aged doe class.
> She's 8 this year!
> 
> It seems like after you did those several days she did have some recovery! Keep up with your vet, let them know all you do and the progression. Glad you have a vet. Some are not so fortunate.
> Our vet is a real blessing, wonderful to work with and bounce ideas back and forth.[/QUOTE  Our vet does not know if we should continue or not. Her and I are pretty much winging it. She is still up and eating hay like crazy. Do you think in a few days I should give her another dose of Red Cell? And how long do you think I should keep up the vitamin b 12?


----------



## terrilhb

I have to say I am more optimistic today. My doe Sara has been sounding horribly when she called. Not like her old self. Today when I went out she sounded like her old self. I pray it continues. I also did not see her today have her front legs go out from under her. I pray what I am doing is working. I thank you all for all your help.


----------



## Southern by choice

This is so encouraging. You have done a great job. 
Very much appreciate your updates. This is one special goat!


----------



## Latestarter

Greetings and welcome to BYH @Micky67 Can you provide a little more information? Like where are you located as you speak of extreme cold and grazing and typically the two don't really go together as extreme cold causes most plants to go dormant... In general terms, grass borne parasites are not generally a major issue with sub freezing temps. They go dormant in the environment until warmer weather returns. That being said, 99.9% of goats will have "some" worms present. It's a matter of "levels" of infestation. Please take a minute and visit our new member area and post an introduction so folks can welcome you properly. https://www.backyardherds.com/forums/new-member-introductions.17/  Also, please put at least your general location in your profile as it's generally very important info when asking for or offering advice/help.  So please browse around and make yourself at home!


----------



## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> Ok first let me say yes, a researcher with a PhD is certainly more qualified than a layman.
> There is a bit of a disconnect here though. Which I will get to.
> 
> I do appreciate your post because I did go back to my veterinarian parasitology book and I am wrong. Which is GOOD!  Why because it this is what this forum is for.
> Education and helping one another. My response is based on working with different vets that see this subject a bit different. I am also not too proud to admit an error.
> I have all my parasitology books but haven't really read or relied on them in so many years- I didn't even know this was there.
> 
> In the animal sciences there are Veterinarians, researches, and layman. Since we are talking about goats/sheep here I will restrict this to the first two.
> Veterinarians and researchers do not always see eye to eye. I lean toward the researches more often then the vet side... the biggest issue is vets work in the field with seeing all the issues and the two don't always agree. Research is also ever evolving and old ways replaced with new info etc.. on and on it goes. This is not new, but rather old info.
> 
> Now attached are pages discussing this...  I would however like to comment on what I see as a problem within the subject.
> If it has to do with viability... how can it be said that in winter parasites go dormant and no need to deworm..
> Do all parasites go dormant?
> If an EPG is high in winter still don't deworm?
> What about regions such as the SE where it was 70 degrees 2 weeks ago and will get back into the 50's possibly 60 soon.
> What about Florida?
> Winter is winter.
> 
> *I am not contending the data or info but application of use of that data.*
> Is it responsible to say no one needs to deworm in the winter?
> 
> I have seen over the years on others farms where the vet said it is January, not the season for coccidia... yet a goat kid had diarrhea and blood. Fortunately that person felt the vet was wrong and took the fecal to Rollins lab. Loaded. Goat was treated by another vet from there on out.  Another goat vet said goat is fine goat is fine... goat died- necropsy showed Barberpole.
> When a goat is sick & anemic the simplest way to determine if there is a strong load is a fecal. The goat is ill. If they are in a dormant phase the results my not be great.
> A poster here on BYH lost half their herd to Liver flukes- in the winter in a very cold region.
> 
> Personally I am not into deworming anything without an EPG.  And if I had a sick goat that was thin and anemic, winter or not, I'd run a fecal second to taking the temp. Basic husbandry.
> Continuing with my vet's advice and care protocol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When you lost a kid to cocci would you have wanted someone to say that to you?
> 
> 
> Below is some of the info mentioned above there are several more pages but this was the main portion....
> (Parasitology for Veterinarians- Georgi)
> View attachment 42050
> View attachment 42052



You spent way more time putting this together than you needed too,
I read the first paragraph.
I just past along something that I had heard from someone with some real knowledge, not internet based knowledge.
If you don't agree with that, then that's fine.
I could have misunderstood her
But, you really need to think about why you needed to spend this much time disputing what I said.
You really do


----------



## OneFineAcre

OneFineAcre said:


> You spent way more time putting this together than you needed too,
> I read the first paragraph.
> I just past along something that I had heard from someone with some real knowledge, not internet based knowledge.
> If you don't agree with that, then that's fine.
> I could have misunderstood her
> But, you really need to think about why you needed to spend this much time disputing what I said.
> You really do



It reminds me of something actually
A few years ago there was a thread just like this one
The OP was going to take their goat to the Vet and someone told them that after they took the goat to the vet they should let them know what the vet said to make sure it was really OK
The OP didn't know the advice was coming from a teenaged boy


----------



## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> But, you really need to think about why you needed to spend this much time disputing what I said.
> You really do


Actually, I was sharing that I was wrong and was giving added info to what you had provided.  
If it benefits the community what is wrong with that?  

Learning is asking questions.  
I know, that "real knowledge" when never questioned can have serious consequences.
Some people ask, some people follow, some people challenge, some explore...


----------



## babsbag

@Southern by choice  So I read through that stuff from the book, quickly. Does it ever say what the "killing outside temperature" is and for how long that temp has to be maintained to kill them?


----------



## Southern by choice

babsbag said:


> @Southern by choice  So I read through that stuff from the book, quickly. Does it ever say what the "killing outside temperature" is and for how long that temp has to be maintained to kill them?


No. I looked in several other books as well.
It appears that it really isn't a killing stage but just a dormancy. I don't know.


----------



## babsbag

So if your pastures have a high load before winter they will have high load in the Spring, too bad it doesn't kill them.  Dry summers have their benefits but I am going to get a fecal done on the goat that has the lousy coat, but I don't expect to find anything more than tape.


----------



## appaloosa 239

terrilhb said:


> I have a 7 year old doe. She kidded in May of 2017. She was in perfect condition before birthing. After birthing she was good. Around the end of  October she started going down hill. Weight wise. Had our vet come out and check her. She checked her from head to toe. Did blood work and a fecal. A little worms so she wormed her. Blood work came back and she was anemic. Fed her what the vet recommended. 2 cups in the evening and 1\2 cup in the morning. She seemed to be doing better. But is now going down hill again. Her symptoms then and know if important is if someone bumps her she falls over and can not get back up until I help her. I have started giving her because of the cold here  warm water all day with molasses in it. Vitamin B Complex Plus shot 1 time a day and 6cc's of Red Cell. She is down to 100 pounds. Also adding shredded beet pulp to her feed. She always has fresh water and hay. Her temp is good and she is eating and chewing her cud. Anyone have any suggestions on what else I can do to help her? Thank you.


Have you considered top dressing the doe's feed with a quarter cup apple cider vinegar? ACV is very beneficial to humans, horses and goats. A very good source of ready potassium which may be what your doe is lacking. I choose Bragg's ACV because it is non GMO and organic. Hope this helps. You may also try a tablespoon of dolomite that you can purchase from a health food store.  Start with a tablespoon and decrease to half after around 7 days. Dolomite is the perfect ratio of calcium and magnesium.


----------



## terrilhb

Update on my girl Sara. Sorry not sooner. Flu stuff going on. She seems to be on them mend. I am blanketing her in the evening because here in Ga the last few nights have been in the 20's and she has been shivering. She has a barn with hay to sleep in. But still shivers some because of her being thin. She is much more alert and vocal. I thank you all for your help. Southern by choice thank you so much. I will keep you all updated. This group rocks. And I can not tell you all how much all of your help has meant to me. I love this girl so much. Here is a picture of her. The blanket is a little small but is working. The top is her with her blanket and the bottom is her without it. Neither shows really well how thin she is. Thank you all again.


----------



## Southern by choice

Thank you, thank you thank you.

Everyday I have checked and was worried when I had not seen you post. 
I wanted to message but honestly I was a bit afraid. 

Goodness, I have tears! This one was so close to home. Sara has a special place with me for sure.
Dang goats, grab your heart and can even the strongest person to just mush! 

oops, almost let that go by... sorry you all are dealing with the flu stuff. Lots of respiratory in our region too but not the flu, just a nasty bug going round.


----------



## kuwaiti-90

@terrilhb 

you are welcome ,,



We do not need to thank you. This is a duty for us. We help you, we are your friends in this site, and we help everyone who needs help from me or from the existing members, and every time we are also possible we need help from you and some good members like you ..

I hope it is in the best cases and good health.


----------



## terrilhb

Hope not a stupid question. But can goats overdose on loose minerals? As you all know my girl Sara has been ill. I can not keep enough loose minerals for her. She devours them. She is still doing good.


----------



## Southern by choice

Well, kinda....

Sounds like she is trying to get herself "right".  

What kind of loose minerals are you using?
Do you use a salt block?


----------



## terrilhb

Southern by choice said:


> Well, kinda....
> 
> Sounds like she is trying to get herself "right".
> 
> What kind of loose minerals are you using?
> Do you use a salt block?


I use the loose minerals from Tractor Supply. Plus a mineral block and salt block.


----------



## Girlies' Mum

terrilhb said:


> Update on my girl Sara. Sorry not sooner. Flu stuff going on. She seems to be on them mend. I am blanketing her in the evening because here in Ga the last few nights have been in the 20's and she has been shivering. She has a barn with hay to sleep in. But still shivers some because of her being thin. She is much more alert and vocal. I thank you all for your help. Southern by choice thank you so much. I will keep you all updated. This group rocks. And I can not tell you all how much all of your help has meant to me. I love this girl so much. Here is a picture of her. The blanket is a little small but is working. The top is her with her blanket and the bottom is her without it. Neither shows really well how thin she is. Thank you all again.View attachment 42343 View attachment 42344


She's very beautiful - and i am a sheep person! So glad she's improving.


----------



## terrilhb

Girlies' Mum said:


> She's very beautiful - and i am a sheep person! So glad she's improving.


Thank you. I think she is beautiful also.


----------



## terrilhb

Sadly I am asking when do you know it is time to put a goat down. As many now my doe Sara has been ill. I am doing all I can to make her stronger. But nothing I do seems to be working. I am at a loss. If I have to put her down I might sell all of my herd. I am at loss for helping her. I am really defeated as to what to do. My heart is breaking.


----------



## Wehner Homestead




----------



## Southern by choice

Edited- I just saw on the journal. I answered there.


----------



## terrilhb




----------



## terrilhb

This is Sara before. Here is Sara know.


----------



## Southern by choice

Have you had a blood panel done?

I know some vets can be very expensive others not... so no judgement just asking.

I really really do understand -  Her eyes look bright still and coat shiny.  Hang in there!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

will pray that the temp change helps her to improve!!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I went back and re-read this thread.  I know you've done so much for this doe - but it seems to me that 2 cups of feed and a tiny bit of beet pulp is not enough food for an underweight goat, especially in cold weather.  I know she's got hay, but I would certainly try to get her to eat more concentrate.   I would stick with smaller amounts at first, but increase the frequency.  She sure needs the groceries!

Good luck with her and hope she can come around for you.


----------



## terrilhb

Southern by choice said:


> Have you had a blood panel done?
> 
> I know some vets can be very expensive others not... so no judgement just asking.
> 
> I really really do understand -  Her eyes look bright still and coat shiny.  Hang in there!


The vet did a blood panel. She said all she found was her being anemic. Her fecal today showed 23 worms. My friend said that is low and not to worm her again. I will call the vet again if needed. Another friend said to get calf manna pro and a protein bucket for her.


----------



## terrilhb

Southern by choice said:


> Have you had a blood panel done?
> 
> I know some vets can be very expensive others not... so no judgement just asking.
> 
> I really really do understand -  Her eyes look bright still and coat shiny.  Hang in there!


I check her eyelids everyday. They are getting pinker every day. I just hope I am doing all I am supposed to do. Thank you again Southern.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

frustratedearthmother said:


> I went back and re-read this thread.  I know you've done so much for this doe - but it seems to me that 2 cups of feed and a tiny bit of beet pulp is not enough food for an underweight goat, especially in cold weather.  I know she's got hay, but I would certainly try to get her to eat more concentrate.   I would stick with smaller amounts at first, but increase the frequency.  She sure needs the groceries!
> 
> Good luck with her and hope she can come around for you.


Agree! I was just doing the same thing.
If she is eating without an issue you need to slowly increase.


You don't want to throw her off but can you start feeding high quality alfalfa/orchard mix hay? Start with a little at a time.
I wouldn’t overdo the alfalfa, just a small amount at a time until she adjusts. 

You should talk to your vet. For me, I'd be inclined to deworm again, because she is so compromised, anemic, and weak.
For a healthy goat it might not affect them, but I think a goat in her state doesn't need anything else slowing her progress.
But there are risks with this, which is why talking to your vet is very important. If you do, I would not use a “harsh” dewormer. 

When was she last de-wormed? With what? I know you posted but I haven't gotten that far yet.


----------



## AClark

I wouldn't give up on her yet personally. 
I know I'm a broken record with this, but weigh your feed, don't go by volume. My scoop holds 6 cups of the pellets I feed. It weighs 4 lbs. If I only fed 2 cups, I wouldn't be feeding enough. 
I hope this is appropriate, but there's a spreadsheet on the OSU page that helps with feeding by weight. It's designed for meat goats, but it's a good reference: http://agecon.okstate.edu/meatgoat/
Click on the OSU Goat Ration Spreadsheet and it will download an excel sheet. You can input your feed into the second sheet to add it if nothing is appropriate - though to get TDN and DM you need to send in feed samples to your local agriculture extension for testing as it's not on the bag. I've added in the info from mine minus the TDN and DM and it still works though and gives you a close idea on what to feed - though since I'm obviously local my feeds are listed. Just a tool I think might be helpful. 

In my experience, it takes a lot longer to put weight on than it does for it to come off when animals are ill.


----------



## terrilhb

Goat Whisperer said:


> Agree! I was just doing the same thing.
> If she is eating without an issue you need to slowly increase.
> 
> 
> You don't want to throw her off but can you start feeding high quality alfalfa? Start with a little at a time.
> You should talk to your vet. For me, I'd be inclined to deworm again, because she is so compromised, anemic, and weak.
> For a healthy goat it might not affect them, but I think a goat in her state doesn't need anything else slowing her progress.
> 
> When was she last de-wormed? With what? I know you posted but I haven't gotten that far yet.


She was wormed again in December with Prohibit


----------



## terrilhb

Goat Whisperer said:


> Agree! I was just doing the same thing.
> If she is eating without an issue you need to slowly increase.
> 
> 
> You don't want to throw her off but can you start feeding high quality alfalfa/orchard mix hay? Start with a little at a time.
> I wouldn’t overdo the alfalfa, just a small amount at a time until she adjusts.
> 
> You should talk to your vet. For me, I'd be inclined to deworm again, because she is so compromised, anemic, and weak.
> For a healthy goat it might not affect them, but I think a goat in her state doesn't need anything else slowing her progress.
> But there are risks with this, which is why talking to your vet is very important. If you do, I would not use a “harsh” dewormer.
> 
> When was she last de-wormed? With what? I know you posted but I haven't gotten that far yet.


This will sound really strange my goats refuse to touch Alfalfa hay. They flat out refuse to eat it. I know strange. We have bought it a few times and they stick their noses up at it.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Have you tried alfalfa lately?  She might decide it's the best thing in the world now that she is in such dire need.  Just as a comparison - 2 cups of feed is not as much as I would feed a weanling pygmy baby.  It's just not much feed and she needs the nourishment to heal.  Agree with AClark on weighing feed.


----------



## terrilhb

frustratedearthmother said:


> Have you tried alfalfa lately?  She might decide it's the best thing in the world now that she is in such dire need.  Just as a comparison - 2 cups of feed is not as much as I would feed a weanling pygmy baby.  It's just not much feed and she needs the nourishment to heal.  Agree with AClark on weighing feed.


No I have not tried lately. But will if it will help. The reason I was feeding 2 cups now  is because back when she was healthy she was fat. I did not want to feed her to much and hurt her worse. Right now she is around 100 pounds. Which for her is skinny.  For some reason this last pregnancy took everything out of her. She was just fine before and during her pregnancy. Then bam down. She is only 7. But I will not breed her again. I do not to risk her health.


----------



## babsbag

The calf manna is good stuff, just be sure to feed what it suggest and not more. I had a very sick goat that got into the feed when I wasn't looking, she was eating out of the bag for about 10 minutes and that was enough to really make her sick; I almost lost her.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

No doubt your doe had something detrimental going on with her.  And, like you said, pregnancy and lactation took her down and perhaps it was parasites that dealt the biggest blow.  You and your vet went the extra mile and that's very likely why she is still with you.  However, now it might be time to look at the simple solution.  

I used to make rounds with a mobile vet.  I couldn't tell you the number of times over the years that we went out to assess a 'skinny' animal.  Many times it was bad teeth, many times it was parasites, but just as many times  - it was inadequate intake or a feed that didn't meet the animal needs.  

No animal whose health is compromised can heal without adequate nutritional support.  I hope it turns out to be that simple for your gal!


----------



## terrilhb

frustratedearthmother said:


> No doubt your doe had something detrimental going on with her.  And, like you said, pregnancy and lactation took her down and perhaps it was parasites that dealt the biggest blow.  You and your vet went the extra mile and that's very likely why she is still with you.  However, now it might be time to look at the simple solution.
> 
> I used to make rounds with a mobile vet.  I couldn't tell you the number of times over the years that we went out to assess a 'skinny' animal.  Many times it was bad teeth, many times it was parasites, but just as many times  - it was inadequate intake or a feed that didn't meet the animal needs.
> 
> No animal whose health is compromised can heal without adequate nutritional support.  I hope it turns out to be that simple for your gal!


Her teeth are just fine. No issues with them.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I'm sure they are. 

I was referring to working with an equine vet... a lot of skinny horses have teeth issues.  Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## Southern by choice

As you have been doing - critically observe!

I am with all the others and would also increase feed. Going slowly is important  as you know. Feeding 2-3x a day spread out in small amounts... the lb should increase 
BUT
if she is refusing then it is something else.

Ruby refused alfalfa or any rich hay. Grass hay she slowly began to eat. Before than NO hay either just grass, not even leaves off the tree. Ruby lost her appetite completely whereas your girl hasn't which is great.
Ruby would touch NO food. 
The fact that Sara has some drive to eat is great. 

The 23 eggs wouldn't normally be a big deal. @Goat Whisperer  talked about this earlier. One one hand because of her condition it is actually somewhat significant... on the hand she is already battling.

Reading through it so evident that many are touched by and pulling for Sara and you.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

I truly hope for the best for you and Sara


----------



## Girlies' Mum

I really do hope  little Ruby can get better, she is such a sweetie. You have so many experts to help you too (not me, as I said before, I'm sheeple).

But I did have a much loved sheep with similar anaemia and debility etc, as I described before. My wee Bramble went through all kinds of tests at the University Vet School Farm Hospital which happily wasn't too far away.  Have you specifically excluded or treated for (as an "in case" type of scenario), liver fluke, coccidiosis and mycoplasma?

 I know nutrition is vital to get right and there are many experts here on the case for that with you, so I just wonder if she has actually got any infection which is stopping her getting better? 

 Might be worth asking the vet if they have excluded these sufficiently? I was told fecal samples can be unreliable in cocci (in sheep anyway)  so it might be worth giving a coccidiostat, but flukes should be seen at this time of year, I believe, on stool samples. Mycoplasma may be easier treated with an appropriate antibiotic such as oxytetracycline or enrofloxacin rather than confirming it first on a blood test (and cheaper - check with the vet). There are probably (of course) many other infections that I am not aware of as well that it could be. Anaplasmosis someone mentioned - I know nothing about this as we don't get it in the UK, but maybe someone can advise on diagnosis and treatment (either here or hopefully a vet!). I am fairly sure that a fecal and a normal blood panel (other than anaemia, which means something is wrong) is not going to exclude all infections and "medical" causes. Also are you sure she hasn't been poisoned - for example  brassica family vegetables/plants can cause anaemia too. 

 I'm not a vet - just speaking from a long and stressful sheep experience. I really feel for you, it is so hard when you feel so helpless.


----------



## terrilhb

This is the first day I have seen Sara's tail this high in I can not remember how long. I am hoping this is a good sign. Her tail has been tucked lately. Praying this is a good sign.


----------



## terrilhb

Girlies' Mum said:


> I really do hope  little Ruby can get better, she is such a sweetie. You have so many experts to help you too (not me, as I said before, I'm sheeple).
> 
> But I did have a much loved sheep with similar anaemia and debility etc, as I described before. My wee Bramble went through all kinds of tests at the University Vet School Farm Hospital which happily wasn't too far away.  Have you specifically excluded or treated for (as an "in case" type of scenario), liver fluke, coccidiosis and mycoplasma?
> 
> I know nutrition is vital to get right and there are many experts here on the case for that with you, so I just wonder if she has actually got any infection which is stopping her getting better?
> 
> Might be worth asking the vet if they have excluded these sufficiently? I was told fecal samples can be unreliable in cocci (in sheep anyway)  so it might be worth giving a coccidiostat, but flukes should be seen at this time of year, I believe, on stool samples. Mycoplasma may be easier treated with an appropriate antibiotic such as oxytetracycline or enrofloxacin rather than confirming it first on a blood test (and cheaper - check with the vet). There are probably (of course) many other infections that I am not aware of as well that it could be. Anaplasmosis someone mentioned - I know nothing about this as we don't get it in the UK, but maybe someone can advise on diagnosis and treatment (either here or hopefully a vet!). I am fairly sure that a fecal and a normal blood panel (other than anaemia, which means something is wrong) is not going to exclude all infections and "medical" causes. Also are you sure she hasn't been poisoned - for example  brassica family vegetables/plants can cause anaemia too.
> 
> I'm not a vet - just speaking from a long and stressful sheep experience. I really feel for you, it is so hard when you feel so helpless.


Thank you for your kind words. Her vet checked for infection. There was none. She was all most positive it was anemic. Did another fecal on her on Friday. It was 23. Which I was told was really good.


----------



## terrilhb

Goat Whisperer said:


> Agree! I was just doing the same thing.
> If she is eating without an issue you need to slowly increase.
> 
> 
> You don't want to throw her off but can you start feeding high quality alfalfa/orchard mix hay? Start with a little at a time.
> I wouldn’t overdo the alfalfa, just a small amount at a time until she adjusts.
> 
> You should talk to your vet. For me, I'd be inclined to deworm again, because she is so compromised, anemic, and weak.
> For a healthy goat it might not affect them, but I think a goat in her state doesn't need anything else slowing her progress.
> But there are risks with this, which is why talking to your vet is very important. If you do, I would not use a “harsh” dewormer.
> I wormed her with prohibit in December. I have Safeguard also on hand. Would that be a good one?
> When was she last de-wormed? With what? I know you posted but I haven't gotten that far yet.


----------



## terrilhb

Sara actually stood  today and I never had to go out and help her up off the ground. I am so optimistic. More optimistic then I have been. Another doe bumped her and she did not fall over. The bump was not in a mean way, just by accident. I am almost over the moon.


----------



## Southern by choice

Keep up the good work!


----------



## BlessedWithGoats




----------



## Wehner Homestead

That’s a wonderful update! Keep the good news coming!


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## AClark

Curious how Sarah is doing? It's been a couple of days, is she still improving?


----------



## terrilhb

Sorry I have not updated. I am so happy to say she is on the mend. I am slowly seeing weight coming back on her. Not anything dramatic but I see improvements. She has not fallen over or been knocked over in around a week now. She actually did like a goat trot the other day. LOL. Yesterday she ran to her food. And is slowly starting to defend herself and food from the babies. I am feeding her 2 times a day. A total of 6 cups a day. She is getting Calf Manna and 16% goat food with shredded beet pulp twice a day. Plus her baking soda and loose minerals. Also a mineral block. Thank you all again for all your help and support.


----------



## AClark

That's great news! Glad she's doing better.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Fantastic!!


----------



## Southern by choice

Yay! So happy to hear this!


----------



## Hens and Roos

Awesome to hear!!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Wonderful news!!


----------



## Girlies' Mum

So glad!!


----------



## kuwaiti-90

so nice and wonderful new


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## terrilhb

Another update on Sara. She is doing fantastic. It rained today. So tomorrow I will get a new picture of her. She still has not fallen or been knocked over. She is eating so well. Slowly putting weight on. I do not want her to put it on to fast. She is still eating 2 times a day. 2 and 3/4 cups in the morning and 4 and a half cups in the evening. Thank you all again.


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## Goat Whisperer

That is wonderful news! I am so happy to hear this! Our Ruby ended up putting on 28# in a month. Once she started eating, she ate nonstop (a lot of hay). 

So happy for you


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## Wehner Homestead

Wonderful news!


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## Southern by choice

and

and

and


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## Girlies' Mum

Yeah, so pleased for you and her!!


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## terrilhb

Just wanted to thank everyone for all of their help with my doe. She is doing fantastic. She lost a horn during the healing process but is excellent now. Here are 2 pictures of her now. I can never put into words how much I appreciate everything.


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## Southern by choice

This makes my heart sing! So happy to hear this. I know @Goat Whisperer  will be too!


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## Wehner Homestead

This is wonderful news!!! So glad your girl has done so well!!!


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## terrilhb

Update on my girl Sara that so many of you helped me with and it helped. On January 6, 2020 she sadly passed away. She was 9 years old. I can not say enough to all of you that the help you all gave me helped her live longer. There are no words to express how much I appreciate everyone. With out you all she would have not lived as long as she did. To this day when I go out I look for her and miss her nipping my elbow's and behind. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart.


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## BlessedWithGoats

I'm so sorry to hear that!! 😢


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