# Handling Rabbits and Cage door size



## P.O. in MO

Just registered and want to say thank you first of all to the people who put in the time and effort to keep this forum up and running.  Second, to all the people who take time to post responses and help newbies like myself get thru the problems they encounter when getting started.  I have spent a lot of time reading posts here on my problems but still have questions.  I am having trouble breeding and handling my rabbits but I think a lot of the breeding problems relate to the handling problems so will talk about this first.  I want to add that I believe in treating all my animals as humanely as possible.  I have a well insulated shed with screened windows and AC if necessary in extreme heat. Currently I am at a point that I dread having to pick one up as the struggle is horrible.
I have NZW rabbits I bought from a producer that raises a large number of rabbits and doubtful spent any more time handling them than was absolutely necessary to accomplish his breeding program.  I have a year old buck, two 7 month old does and a year and a half old doe who has kindled several times.  There was another breeder in my area who had weanlings, but after working on my shed all summer I was anxious to get started breeding rabbits and didn't want to wait on them to reach breeding age.  I think I obviously made the wrong choice.  I tried to post a picture of my cages but since I am new to the board it wouldn't allow it so will have to describe.  They are 36 wide by 30 deep by 18 inches tall.  That makes the front 36 by 18. The width of the door is 14 and the height is 12.  I have 4 inch urine guards around the bottom and leaving one square of wire above the door only leaves 12 inches of height for door.  I have watched all the youtubes I could find on hanling rabbits but all of them are of rabbits that don't seem to mind being pickup up.  Mine hate it.  If I grab by the scruff of the next and pick them up they are still taller than my door and I have to drag their rump over the bottom of the door which is generally thrashing about wildly.  I try to cradle their rump with my other hand and they usually end up twisting out of it before I get them out the door.  One video showed them picking the rabbit up with one hand under their belly behind the front feet and then getting the other under the back feet but that just give mine something to push off of with their powerful hind legs.  I guess number one is the 12 inch door height sufficient,  I would like to keep the urine guard and the one square of wire above the door.  My cages hang on adjustable pipes that stick out from the wall and the square of wire above the door helps stiffen the front of the cage from bowing but if I must I can gain two inches in door height and add an external stiffener.  I have had these rabbits a month and have been spending time brushing them and petting them several times a day to get them used to me and they seem to like the attention until the moment I grab hold then it's all over.  It's panic time.   Here is a link to a picture of one of my cages if you want to see it.  It won't let me put a url in here but if you put http: in front of this address and paste in another window you will get a picture of what i am describing     //postimage.org/image/u9z5ljtsp/    .  I finally got one of the 7 month old does to accept the buck this morning and according to what I have read I am going to put the doe back in with the buck 10 hours later which is in about 4 hours.  I am not looking forward to it.  When I put the doe in this morning I actually put the cage on the ground and  coaxed the rabbit out with a slice of apple so I could pick it up off the ground which did work out a little better, but when they were done and I had to get her out of the bucks cage and it was a struggle.  I have been considering having 3 expensive rabbit dinners and starting over with weanlings but want to hear some opinions from anyone who has the time to respond..  Thanks in advance for your time.


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## brentr

P.O., hang in there!  You make a good observation: your rabbits probably have not been handled all that much.  You are doing the right thing in just getting them used to being touched and handled by you.  Perseverance is the key here!  Almost all rabbits struggle a little being removed or put into a cage.

One thought for you: one, be firm yet gentle.  Like any animal, rabbits can sense fear.  If you're not holding them/grasping them firmly, they might struggle more because they don't feel secure and in danger.  I use the good ole' grab 'em by the scruff over their shoulder blades.  Get a good grip and act confidently.  They won't be hurt.  I find it easier to take my rabbits out of their cages backward (by the shoulders) so their claws don't get stuck in the cage wire.  They seem to struggle less if they can't see exactly where they are going.

As for the breeding, it does help to get the doe back in with the buck 8-10 hours after the first breeding.  A couple of my does get cranky during that second session, so don't be surprised if the doe acts a bit chirpy and skittish when you try to take her to/from breeding the second time.

It sounds as though you have good rabbits.  The only benefit I see if you were to eat them and start over is you would have smaller rabbits to handle at first.  Age-wise, your bunnies are young and should should have long breeding life ahead of them.

Good luck!


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## Gagroundhog




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## Bitterroot

Nice setups!

I'm in the same boat sort of.  My original breeding stock wasn't messed with much and were very skittish when I first brought them home.  It's taken a while, but they now realize I'm the person who brings tasty treats like oats and hay, and all will at least tolerate me messing around without them going nuts.  A couple will even seek me out when I open the cage door, for pets and treats.  When it comes to handling, I try to keep that to a minimum.  I use a bare hand to grab the scruff so I get a good grip and bring them out butt first, where I have a gloved hand and sleeved arm waiting to catch and cradle them like a football.  As long as I do it quickly, they don't seem to fuss too much.  If I fiddle fart around, they throw an unholy fit.

Good luck in your breeding endeavor.  I'd definitely give these guys a chance rather than starting over.


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## P.O. in MO

Thanks for the replies, it is greatly appreciated.  How about the 12 inch tall door,  is that adequate height or do I need to rework my cage fronts.  I know it would be better if they were bigger but is that a normal size that others are using on this breed.   Going out now to put my doe back in with the buck and thanks in advance for any replies to this . PO


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

Bitterroot said:
			
		

> Nice setups!
> 
> I'm in the same boat sort of.  My original breeding stock wasn't messed with much and were very skittish when I first brought them home.  It's taken a while, but they now realize I'm the person who brings tasty treats like oats and hay, and all will at least tolerate me messing around without them going nuts.  A couple will even seek me out when I open the cage door, for pets and treats.  When it comes to handling, I try to keep that to a minimum.  I use a bare hand to grab the scruff so I get a good grip and bring them out butt first, where I have a gloved hand and sleeved arm waiting to catch and cradle them like a football.  As long as I do it quickly, they don't seem to fuss too much.  If I fiddle fart around, they throw an unholy fit.
> 
> Good luck in your breeding endeavor.  I'd definitely give these guys a chance rather than starting over.


*X2, this is also how I handle mine.*


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## sawfish99

I'll agree with the others. You just need experience (which will be indicated by a bunch of rabbit claw scratches on your arms).  The 12" door should be sufficient, of course, bigger is better.  Our breeding stock only gets handled for breeding and rarely at other times.


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## Isthelifeforme

I cheat sometimes and use a 5 gallon bucket.  Basically, you open the door and pull them into the bucket.  They will turn around in the bucket and you can then just focus on preventing them from jumping out while you transport them.  Once you them to the new cage, just tilt the bucket and they will hop out into the cage.

I can carry them by the scruff but sometimes it seems an added stress if I have just bred them, or if they seem scared.  Only time I have been bitten was after moving a newly bred doe...


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## secuono

First, break up that huge 'paragraph.'
Secondly, why is there a urine guard on the front? Most people only use them so rabbits don't pee on the wall and on each other. Can you clip it to the front on the outside so you can easily remove it?
Doesn't matter if someone handles them from weaning, some rabbits hate it. There are many ways to get a rabbit out of a cage, but whichever way you try, get that rabbit tucked under your arm or solidly against your body quick. Keeping noise and odd movements to a minimum can help, so can covering the eyes, pinning their ears with the neck scruff and scruffing their hip skin so they are more stretched out. 
Door doesn't look too small nor does it look like the guard is blocking anything. Try scruffing the neck with ears pinned under your palm, then with the other hand, scruff their butt, flip the rabbit over and keep it stretched out some, slide rabbit out of cage. 
If you want to get them to not kick and you have time to deal with them, then get them used to you touching them, petting them, lifting their front end, their back end, etc, while still in the cage. Use arm gloves during this time if they end up stratching to the point of blood. 
You can scruff the neck, ears pinned and place the other hand over the belly, right against the knees. Grab the skin and lift rabbit out. 
They just don't know you aren't trying to bite into them, it will take time. 





Here is the OP's picture.


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## P.O. in MO

Thanks for the additional advice.
And secuono ,yes, that was a monster paragraph. Thanks for posting the picture for me.   Your right about the urine guards on the front really not necessary.  I can gain 4 inches of door height by removing the urine guard and extending the door opening to the bottom of the cage which will get rid of anything at the bottom for them to catch on when bringing them out of the cage.  I know this will make the floor spongy in this area with no cage side to stiffen it so will probably have to add something underneath to fix that.  Will try your suggested rabbit handling techniques first hoping I won't have to rework my cages.  I have been spending time with them twice a day trying to get them more used to me handling them but don't know if it's helping much.  Will print your post and keep in shed til I figure out what works best.   Thanks again PO


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## Hens and Roos

not sure if others do this but we have a radio on 24/7 by our rabbits, when we got our 1st doe she was just about a year old and bred so we were careful not to handle her to much and it took awhile for her to come to trust us.  The radio seems to help provide voices or background music for them and they are as easily spooked when we come into the garage.

we worked with our older doe by offering her sunflower seeds from our hand- she only got the seeds if she came and took them from our hand, she now looks forward to us and puts her head out of the door to be petted- she still is getting use to being handled as my DD is working with them for 4-H.


my DH is good at handling the rabbits and bringing them out of their cages- do you have another person who can help you until the rabbits start getting use to being handled.  Our DD and I are smaller compare to my DH and sometimes it seems that the rabbits are worried that we will drop them and therefore struggle more with us.

good luck and don't give up!


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## P.O. in MO

Thanks for the additional advice.  I do have a radio in the shed and do leave it on from time to time but not much in the way of classical music stations in my area.  I guess I should play hip hop, huh.  I really don't have anyone to help me.  

They are getting more used to me but still don't like being picked up.  When it is necessary they still struggle but the advice from secuono saying to grab it by the scruff of the neck and the belly worked much better, they fit thru the door a lot better in the horizontal position this affords.  They are upset with me for a few days afterwards  and  it takes a little time before they will come to the front of the cage for a treat again.  I have decided not to handle these rabbits any more than absolutely necessary. Basically just when I need to put a doe in with a buck.   When and if I ever have a litter I will start them early getting used to being handled.    P.O. in MO


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