# Bloat



## heathen (Mar 1, 2012)

Ok today I recieved a phone call from my buddy I pulled the kid for. ( He never took my advice and gave her a shot after I pulled the kid.) he said she is laying on her side and is stiff and cold. I was eating out Chinese buffet Just sat down so I left and went to tractor supply got LA 200, Dumor milk replacer, nipples, needle and syringe. I show up he was corect she was awfull looking She was on her side gasping but her rummen was bubling and she was swolen on her left side. I said she had bloat had him get me baking soda  Vegetable oil and water. I started massaging her held her close to me and on my lap. I had him get tums also I told him to crush 3 or 4 tums in a cup of water he cmae back and i gave her a sayringe for went a head and gave her a shot  and kept massaging  then he told me he crushed 10 tums in the water........ So I took up the baking soda mixed it into  a runny paste and started giving her that. I tried to give her an enama to help gass pass (didnt work she pooped but no air came out) She kep tburping was foaming at her mouth her legs were still stiff she wouldnt open her mouth her udder was completly dry. After 4 hours I got her to open her mouth ( to scream) and made her walk around a table 3 or 4 times before she kept trying to fall over and wouldnt stand any more. So more massaging more baking soad more vegtable oil ( I honestly dont know how much I gave her id guesse 1/8 to 1/4 a cup but thats all he had. I just left and she is breathing normaly laying normally and nodding off to sleep. She is in the house ( he left the baby out with the rest of the goats) I told him to check on her every 20 or so minutes massage her belly some more till she is walking normally. My question is mainly why did she stiffen up all over could it be tetnus? but if it was tetnus she would stay stiff wouldnt she. Her mouth was locked but it is not now she is not chewing cud still but seemed to be a lot more comfortable then she was. I still dont look for her to make it but I dont know what else to do. any advise is appreciated as allways. I have never had a goat with bloat. I have herd of it but I dont understand why she seemed to be so locked up and got so cold.


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## elevan (Mar 1, 2012)

If it were tetnus she would still be locked up, so I don't think that is what you were seeing.  Pain could have been what you were seeing.

Sounds like you did right with the bloat.

Personally I would have preferred Penicillin over the LA200 for this situation.  Keep her on antibiotics for 10 days.


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## heathen (Mar 2, 2012)

Can I still switch to Penicylin I got the La because I was thinking infection from birthing and not sure what infection it was without seeing her. I just saw her 3 days ago and she was running after her baby and acting fine. She is still haveing discharge that is red and white I wasnt to concerned about it but thought she had a penicylin shot.


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## elevan (Mar 2, 2012)

You don't want to give Penicillin and LA200 at the same time as the LA200 will keep the Penicillin from working.  You want to wait at least 48 hours after the last LA200 injection before giving the Penicillin.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm curious why she's getting antibiotics for bloat?  I've never heard of treating with antibiotics.


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## elevan (Mar 2, 2012)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> I'm curious why she's getting antibiotics for bloat?  I've never heard of treating with antibiotics.


Not for bloat...for the kid being pulled.

The bloat was probably brought on by the stress of everything else and is a secondary concern imo.


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## that's*satyrical (Mar 2, 2012)

That is awesome that you knew what to do & were able to help. I hope she is able to make a full recovery for you.


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## heathen (Mar 2, 2012)

Well the goat is no better this morning is there anything else that can be done for the bloat other than the oil and baking soda? he was wanting to put her out of her miseray and I am not sure that its not the humane thing to do. I thought they started getting better in 24 hours. She is not even making milk for her baby and I am not sure why not will the bloat stop her milk prodcution or is this  a sign of something else?


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 2, 2012)

I thought the KID was bloating, I'm sorry.  

If the doe is bloating and cold and not doing well, that could very well be milk fever!!!  She needs CMPK or calcium immediately. Milk fever shuts down muscle function, which is why she's bloating because her rumen isn't contracting and passing along feed. Get a vet out NOW if you or your friend doesn't know how to do an IV treatment.  She really needs treatment NOW though!  If it is milk fever, she'll do a total 180 with proper treatment.


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## elevan (Mar 2, 2012)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> If the doe is bloating and cold and not doing well, that could very well be milk fever!!!  She needs CMPK or calcium immediately. Milk fever shuts down muscle function, which is why she's bloating because her rumen isn't contracting and passing along feed. Get a vet out NOW if you or your friend doesn't know how to do an IV treatment.  She really needs treatment NOW though!  If it is milk fever, she'll do a total 180 with proper treatment.


x2


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## heathen (Mar 2, 2012)

If it was milk fever wouldnt she be running  a high temp or the bag be hot to touch. She is running a normal tem and her bag is not hot its just litterally dry. He wont have  a vet out or take her to one. He is on disability and I just took his pug to the vet for rectal bleeding ( turns out it was whip worms) and I told him he could wait to pay me or pay me in installments and he didnt want to he wants to just pay it all back. Is the medicine something I can get and give an IV of its not milk fever will it hurt her to recieve it? I am trying to get him to just give her to me then I will have her here and treat her I dont have a good goat vet in my area the only vet I like for farm animals is over an hour away. They know there stuff though they have 5 vets in the office and they have always get a 3rd opinion before deciding the best coarse of action. They are not to expensive either.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 2, 2012)

milk fever, is not mastitis, it is low blood calcium, causing the animal to be very weak. Normally you would see a pretty quick response from giving CMPK or calcium gluconate 23%. 


I wouldn't rule out a parasite issue, as well, since she is bloating and weak.   Really could be a number of things. 

Milk fever
parasites
and over-eating disease. I would be surprised if this goat has ever been vaccinated. 

When did she kid?


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 2, 2012)

You said, slimy stuff coming out of her bottom,  Leads me to think  parasite issue. 

Have any wormers on hand???

I would go get a tube of Panacur or safegaurd for horses and worm her with 1/3 of the tube each day for 3 days. 
Or get a bottle of liquid safegaurd for goats or sheep and worm at 3x the label dosage for 3 to 5 days. 

Put her on Penn G, twice a day for 5 to 7 days. 

give her more baking soda today, can mix in a slurry of corn syrup and corn oil. 


and also do a calcium treatment on her, whatever is available at your farm store.  I prefer calcium glulconate 23%, which is recommended for IV treatment, but can be given sub-Q, 15cc per location and around 30 to 45 cc at a time. If it is that, you would see her respond in a matter of hours.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 2, 2012)

She would not run a fever with milk fever, that's just what the condition is called, it doesn't mean mastitis or a fever.  It means her body is not able to absorb enough calcium for the muscles to function properly.  If it is milk fever, oral meds may be pretty useless at this point and she may need an IV.  Do you have a farm store nearby that would have an IV kit  and meds?  You'll need IV calcium gluconate , or CMPK if they have it.  You'll want an 18 ga. needle as well.  I've only treated cattle for milk fever, but the process is the same.  I'm just not sure of the dosage.  Know that giving calcium through an IV can be dangerous, and you have to give it slowly or else you can give the goat a heart attack.  If you don't feel comfortable doing an IV, you can try oral CMPK, or injecting CMPK sub-q.  If you do an IV, put the bottle of meds in warm water, along with the iv set (not needle) so they can get to body temp.  Once the meds are warmed, put the bottle of meds (remove the metal band and rubber plug) and let the meds come out of the tube and needle, so there's no air in the line.  Then start an IV in the neck, with the needle pointing down to the goats heart (not up to the head).  You'll want to hold the bottle very low, so it doesn't go too fast.   You may need to call and check on the dosage (w/ a vet) but Fiasco says 50-100 mL for a goat.  

Will your vet do payment plans? Usually farm vets will.  If you've never treated w/ an IV it really would be worth it to get a vet out.   If you absolutely cannot afford the vet, adn they won't do any payment plans, then at least try the sub-q injections of CMPK and oral as well.  Don't just get the oral calcium drench, it's caustic stuff and can be aspirated easily.  


Some more signs of milk fever:  cold extremeties (like ears), uncoordinated movement, "spacey" eyes, bloat, no appetite, no bowel movements.    


I'm really just trying to guess at what I think it might be, so please know I"m not a vet, just trying to help.


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## heathen (Mar 2, 2012)

I appreciate all the help and advice from everyone I have never heard of milk fever he said he had a goat die2 years ago doing the same thing as this one.  We both wormed our goats in November her eyes are bright and she dont apear to be wormy If I go ahead and worm her while giving an IV treatment will that hurt her or should I do the IV wait a day and then worm? I have never done an IV on goats I have on peopl horses and cows, I am assuming it will be similuar situation. Thank again all.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 2, 2012)

You can probably do everything at once, but since she will respond quickly to the IV treatment, you could just do that first and wait 2 or 3 hours and if no response, then move on to worming and other treatments.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 2, 2012)

Please let us know how everything goes!


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## heathen (Mar 2, 2012)

She died by the time I got my boy picked up from school and went over there. Thanks for all the help.


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## Pearce Pastures (Mar 2, 2012)

So sorry.


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## Mzyla (Mar 2, 2012)

Very sorry - so upsetting!


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## elevan (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm sorry that you lost her.  




			
				heathen said:
			
		

> We both wormed our goats in November her eyes are bright and she dont apear to be wormy


I would highly suggest that you read this article for future reference:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-parasite-mgmt


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 3, 2012)

Sorry to hear that.


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## heathen (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks again everyone!!!! Elevan I read that and viewed the power point. I had only ever used the Eye chart on my goats. We had a lady from UK come and do a presentation at a trade days thing it was informative. Honestly I had goats since I was a kid and we never wormed them we never lost any either we did rotate pastures 3 times a year and limed the pastures.   ( fayette county IL ) We had used safe gaurd on them and a few of them were still wormy looking  and had the light eyes. My buddy had bought a goat off a trader ( traded 3 silkie hens for her) and when I looked her over, her eye lids were white and he had already just turned her loose with ther rest of the goats and we were taking his billy to our house to use so we just wormed everyone to be sure it was taken care of. The same guy he got the goat from lost 4 others to ( brain worms?!?!) I had never heard of this but thast what he claims it was.


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## elevan (Mar 3, 2012)

I'm not sure what brain worms would be referring to?  Menigeal worms maybe?  It can be hard to determine when people use slang terms.

Safeguard is near worthless for everything except tapeworms here in the US and those aren't a worm that is gonna kill a goat.  It's certainly better to never have to deworm a goat than to put them on a regular schedule as that is what has caused most of our resistance issues here.  You might suggest to your buddy to consider implementing a quarantine deworming regime when s/he brings home new goats after that situation.  Just some thoughts.


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