# Moving states - with rabbits



## DianeS (Apr 28, 2011)

I am moving! I am leaving Colorado and moving to Oregon this August. 

How in the world can I move my rabbit herd? At the time of moving I expect to have one NZ buck, two Cali does, a mutt doe, and my herd of 8 month old English Angoras. Nobody pregnant, nobody younger than the Angoras. 

I can't think of any plan that will work well. I can't think of anything better than stacking the hutches like boxes in the moving van, adding frozen bottles of water so keep each rabbit cool, and driving off. Stopping every two hours to air out the moving van and change ice bottles. 

But that can't be good, or at least it doesn't sound good. On the other hand, I have to move the chickens, too, and supposedly they'll be OK in those conditions if I shut them in their coop and move the coop that way. 

So please, tell me what might work better. It is not financially feasible to sell the Angoras and buy different ones when I get there, and as long as I have to move them I might as well move the meaties too. I just have to figure out HOW. 

(FYI, they can't ride in the cab of the moving truck, what little room there is will be filled with the pet animals already - a dog and two cats.)

Surely somebody has done this before, and can let me know what works. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Legacy (Apr 28, 2011)

Wow, I guess if you have to move them anyway, your plan seems like a good one. It will be a long trip by having to stop every couple of hours.

I can't think of an easier way in august.

Will you be going to the new place prior to the move? Is there anyway to find someone that could rabbit sit? Then you could take the rabbits before the move and the pets when you move.


----------



## rockdoveranch (Apr 28, 2011)

My fear is that the rabbits will become overheated in the back of the moving van, even with frozen bottles.  It is the being closed up thing that concerns me.   Seems proper ventilation is important. 

My guess is that people who show stack the carrier cages, but closed up in a moving van . . . I just don't know.

There are companies that transport animals for a living.  I have never used one, but I thought I would pass the information along to you.

Good luck!


----------



## ksalvagno (Apr 28, 2011)

What about renting a cargo van to transport them? Then you can temperature control the van.


----------



## MiniRexGirl (Apr 29, 2011)

If I were you I would look into a professional pet transporting service. Rabbits (as you know) are somewhat fragile when it comes to temperature. Here is a link to a company that I have seen driving around my area. 
The Pet Bus


----------



## dewey (Apr 29, 2011)

Isn't live cargo (pets or human) in the enclosed box area forbidden by moving van companies because of the dangers?

In just a few minutes the temps in the box can climb 30+ degrees over the outdoor temp.  It takes only a couple of minutes at those temps for a dog to have a heat stroke, and rabbits are much less equipped to handle heat.  

I'll never forget when a guy made a 20 minute trip across town to bring several dogs into the shop.  They rode in a camper truck and all but 1 of them perished from heat exposure (the surviving one had brain damage).

The cargo van idea is a good one.


----------



## Bossroo (Apr 29, 2011)

When placed in the back of a moving van , especially in August... they will be more likely than not be dead within the hour from the heat buildup. Then you will be faced of a way of disposing of the dead bodies on the road. You will also have to receive a health certificate from your Vet. in order to transport livestock across State lines. Most States are not amused by out of State livestock not having a health certificate and will confiscate them. MUCH less expensive and time consuming and save a huge headache is  to sell, cull, and/or give away all of the rabbits and then buy new ones once you have moved to your new place and have a place to house them. The price of commercial shipping ( not to mention the Vet costs)  is MUCH MORE expensive than what they are worth.  Good luck with your move.


----------



## RabbitMage (Apr 29, 2011)

I've never needed a health cert. to drive across state lines, but the last time I drove out of state with my rabbits was 2006.

When I travel with my rabbits, I just drive. When we stop for human things (meals, bathroom, etc) we'll check on everyone, make sure they look cozy and have water, then continue on our way. When we stop for the night we feed everyone.

But I would never even entertain the idea of putting a live animal in the back of a moving van.


----------



## dbunni (Apr 29, 2011)

Okay ... first with the issue of shipping/moving across state lines and health certificates.  Not needed.  If this was an issue, show animals would never leave their state as HC are only good for a short period of time.  Most breeders would not make the monthly trip to the vet to update, let alone invest in a new one for that bun that is attending his/her first, and maybe only, show.  Many of us, many species, travel all over the US for shows and do not have a problem.  We are not shipping/moving a regulated wild animal here.  This is a very domesticated rabbit that has been used for hundreds of years for its wool qualities ... many a bunny has been spun for that lovely angora sweater!

Travel is possible if you take the time to prepare.  Do not .. do not .. .use frozen water bottles in the cages, it will just cause a lot of felting and skin issues.  We use frozen tiles.  They are flat, come in various sizes, and are easy to work with... cheap too!  next.  Do not move them in their hutches.  Too much chance of injury.  Purchase/make carriers that allow some freedom, have wire bottom, and if you are really creative, hay racks.  Do not put any plastic/metal walls in them.  Lastly, invest in fans.  There are tons of fans out there that are battery operated and many have an internal chargeable battery, so you can get twice the time on one unit.  Not the little ones ... look for the larger units.  Most importantly, this would be a great time to trim all the wool off.  Even an inch of angora on the bun is 8x warmer than sheep wool.  Just too much of a risk of overheating.  As you mentioned ... tons of water ... that is the most important nutrient to an animal.

We do travel all over the US with full coated English and Giant angoras.  Working with coats over 10" in length.  You can do this.

Best of luck ...


----------



## DianeS (Apr 29, 2011)

dbunni - what is the difference between "hutches" and "carriers" to you? You described "carriers" as allowing some freedom, having wire bottoms, and hay racks - well, that describes my hutches. Would you elaborate, please? 

Thanks, everyone! I've read a few things that might certainly help.


----------



## dbunni (Apr 29, 2011)

Hutch is the home.  Often of larger unit ...3-4 feet in any dimension.  A carrier is a smaller unit used to travel.  Just large enough for the bun to move, but not enough that he/she can injur themselves.  I can get up to 14 carriers (english & giants) in my Honda Element.  Could not be done with hutches & a van!

Bleow are is a carrier we are selling this weekend.  While this is for smaller breeds, the idea is the same.  And, oh ... the cute little one was a BIS prize for the EA ... yea, her head could not fit in it, let alone the show coat!


----------



## rockdoveranch (Apr 29, 2011)

dbunni,

Just curious . . .

Do most show people transport their rabbits inside an air conditioned or heated van, SUV or truck?

What is your opinion of the OP transporting her rabbits in a closed moving van?  Do you feel moving vans are okay just as long as adequate fans are being used?

Thanks


----------



## goodhors (Apr 29, 2011)

You may want to check State laws before moving rabbits from one State to another.  This seems to be a general site, and you can click up individual states at the bottom of the page.  There is a State Veterinarian under the "Please Note" paragraph for the most current law changes.  Since you will be crossing several states, ALL their laws will affect your rabbits.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/animals/animal_import/animal_imports_states.shtml

Checking Michigan for fun, you are forbidden to import or release live San Juan Rabbits into the State!!  Rabbit reference was under Exotic Animals, no header of their own.

I strongly suggest you check out the laws to keep yourself from trouble.

Having driven commercial trucks, a moving van type with cargo box behind is NOT how you want to haul live animals!!  Just like a closed car sitting in the heat, the temps go up FAST.  It can easily be 100F in less than 20 minutes with sun and road heat.  Animals are cooked, literally!  You get no fresh air inside until the door is opened.  Even driving at night, I would not haul livestock in that kind of vehicle.  They are designed for hauling boxed cargo, not live things that breathe and get hot.

Local Pet Shelter put a large thermometer inside a closed car, in the sun, traced how hot and how fast it happened, inside the car.  Temps outside were not bad, 80Fs.  Inside the car, it was over 100F in a very short time, but kept going on up!  Very graphic demo, with a chart to say what happened to animal internally, at what temp.  As mentioned, dogs get damaged and die pretty quick in those kind of temps.  Cats and rabbits probably go much faster.

http://www.mydogiscool.com/x_car_study.php

Perhaps you could RENT a regular van, with no seats inside to stack cages in.  Air conditioning would cool the entire vehicle as you travel.  There are cage fans available to buy if some animals are really furry, easily overheated.  Perhaps a fan that plugs into the lighter, available at Truck stop places or Semi truck suppliers online or Camper suppliers, would move inside air a bit better for the animals.  August is a brutal time to move animals, heat is bad.
Those silver reflective sun screens are pretty effective in reducing sunshine heat coming in windows, could add some shade for side windows while traveling.  Mine are foldable fabric with bendy frame, purchased at K-mart, do a good job.

Anyway, check out State laws, because they don't care if you don't know about them when they catch you in the wrong.  And avoid the moving truck idea if you want to keep the pets alive.


----------



## rockdoveranch (Apr 30, 2011)

Great post Goodhors!

It reminded me that individuals can hire drivers to drive regular vehciles, not just for animal transport.  My mother-in-law used to hire a driver when she was a snow-bird.  She would take a plane, and then pay a driver to move her belongings . . . just clothing for 6 months.  

I know there are transport laws for sheep over the age of one; instate and out of state.

Down here in Texas you read horrible stories about people who forget they have babies in their vehicles and come back to find a dead child.  This happens year round.  Personally, I do not see how that can happen.  But that is just me.

One a side note, the law is not equal for all parents.  Depending on who they are and their position in life they either got a sad story in the paper or are prosecuted.


----------



## goodhors (Apr 30, 2011)

"Down here in Texas you read horrible stories about people who forget they have babies in their vehicles and come back to find a dead child.  This happens year round.  Personally, I do not see how that can happen.  But that is just me.

One a side note, the law is not equal for all parents.  Depending on who they are and their position in life they either got a sad story in the paper or are prosecuted"Quote

Well I have to agree with you on that, HOW can you forget you have a child in the car???  The child is first in, first out, ALWAYS.  You come back for groceries after child is safely contained away from the vehicle.  Child is NEVER left in the car while you pay for the gas.  We had some car-seated children kidnapped when the running vehicle was stolen from the gas station!  New laws here say children under certain weight and heights MUST still be riding in carseats or booster seats until larger sized.

Lots more spectator folks willing to call and report pets and children left in cars now.  Kids alone even on cold days get reported.  Those folks ARE being arrested, prosecuted.  Seems to make the local news, so no brushing under the rug even with who you know.

For me, no excuse is worth uttering for leaving a child alone in his carseat in a vehicle.  Alone means you are more than 10 ft from the car.  You take the time to unbuckle, remove child, take them along if you need to leave the vehicle.  No excuse for not doing that.


----------



## dewey (Apr 30, 2011)

> Down here in Texas you read horrible stories about people who forget they have babies in their vehicles and come back to find a dead child.  This happens year round.  Personally, I do not see how that can happen.  But that is just me.


It is such a tragedy.  And like you mentioned, it happens in very mild fall and spring temps, when people think it's so cool out, or think if they leave the windows down it'll be ok.

They're even telling people now to put their purses, or briefcases, or cell phones, or other important item, in the backseat with the child so the care giver remembers that a child is there...odd, you'd think the child would be the most important "item".

People call authorities if they see a child left in a car, or an animal if it's warm out.  I imagine there's lots of people that would notify authorities if they saw animals being transported in a moving box.      

Living in AZ almost 50 years has taught me well that fans only circulate air, not reduce air temp, so moving hot air around in an enclosed box will not lower the temp.  (Wish it did, though, since we wouldn't have to pay $300+ a month in cooling costs! LOL)


----------



## goodhors (Apr 30, 2011)

> Living in AZ almost 50 years has taught me well that fans only circulate air, not reduce air temp, so moving hot air around in an enclosed box will not lower the temp.  (Wish it did, though, since we wouldn't have to pay $300+ a month in cooling costs! LOL)


You are right!

I was looking at the plug-in fan to better circulate the air condition cooled air, inside a regular van with cages inside.  Sometimes just keeping the air moving will help animals from overheating.

Fan would be no help unless air was cooled first.  Summer heated temps are just too hot.


----------



## dewey (May 1, 2011)

goodhors said:
			
		

> > Living in AZ almost 50 years has taught me well that fans only circulate air, not reduce air temp, so moving hot air around in an enclosed box will not lower the temp.  (Wish it did, though, since we wouldn't have to pay $300+ a month in cooling costs! LOL)
> 
> 
> You are right!
> ...


So true!

For a human, warm air with a fan blowing it around will help evaporate skin moisture which can help cool the body, only to a point, of course, but since rabbits don't sweat like humans...

Even when I get the vehicle pre-cooled for the rabbits I have concerns for them traveling very far without having the windows covered, since even direct light beaming in on them can really raise their temp, though the overall vehicle is cool.  In the summer, wire travel cages are really a must so that they get cool air circulation...when I change directions and know the sun will be on their side, I stop and cover that side so their shaded.


----------



## dbunni (May 1, 2011)

Sorry for the delay.  Will write more of a note next week.  Just got back from OSRBA (Ohio State Rabbit Convention).  This is one of the largest shows in the country (many years ranks second to ARBA Convention).  Crazy 3 days with way too many rabbits!  Exausted.  Time to sleep ... brain dead!


----------



## rockdoveranch (May 15, 2011)

dbunni said:
			
		

> Sorry for the delay.  Will write more of a note next week.  Just got back from OSRBA (Ohio State Rabbit Convention).  This is one of the largest shows in the country (many years ranks second to ARBA Convention).  Crazy 3 days with way too many rabbits!  Exausted.  Time to sleep ... brain dead!


Hoping to get your input on this subject.


----------



## kayla_sayswa (May 26, 2011)

DianneS - how many angoras in your "herd" of 8 month old angoras?

Are you also moving any personal vehicles? Your original post indicates you'll be driving a moving van, where the cab will have your dog & cat.  

Are you towing your personal vehicle?  Is there someone else that could drive it instead and you could haul your buns there?  I've stacked up carriers in the back seat of a taurus on several occasions.

I've hauled buns to shows for many years, crossing state lines.  Yes...depending on the local laws...you *may* run into an issue by not having the health certificates, but there is very little probability it would happen.  There are major ARBA shows held throughout the us and I highly doubt anyone has had every animal vet checked before crossing state lines and I've not heard of a single incident where someone was stopped.  Cops have bigger fish to fry than bother with calling out the state ag dept on a traffic stop. 

Rabbit carriers are not exactly cheap - nor are fans, renting a cargo van, hiring an professional etc.  I can't help but wonder if the cost to replace would be less.  It depends on the personal attachment or actual value of the buns you currently own.

Klubertanz is a supplier that sells carriers - they are online.  

I do know that people transport their buns in pickup beds with toppers or utility trailers (with lots of vents).  August is a tough month to be transporting.

I do know there are a few yahoo groups dedicated to rabbit runs - a network of rabbit folks that help people transport rabbits typically for sales or shows.  

Go to ARBA online and see who the district leader is for your area and email them with your questions.  

Good luck to you...I hope you find a good solution.


----------

