# Solution to world hunger? Eat less meat, new study urges



## FarmGuru (Oct 23, 2011)

MONTREAL -- A newly published blueprint for doubling the global food supply includes a key suggestion about how everyone can contribute to this increasingly pressing ambition: eat less meat.

An international team of researchers has developed solutions to respond to what it calls one the greatest challenges of the 21st century -- boosting food production while slashing the environmental impact of agriculture.

The research, which will be featured on the cover page of the Oct. 20 edition of the journal Nature, comes as international concern grows over how the planet will feed the rapidly expanding human population.

Complete Article


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## Ms. Research (Oct 23, 2011)

Oh well and good, but what happens when the vegetables are no longer good as well.  You eat your fair share, nothing more, nothing less.  And you are doing your part by not wasting.  Since when do we need a government to tell us what and how much to eat.  The same government that is getting ready to tell us what drugs we need to take.  Or here's one that may touch home, tell you what you can and can  not grow.  

The same government that did Food for Oil.   Along with the UN.  And you saw how well that went down.  We don't need to discuss.

I just find this stuff, the research, filled with a bunch of crap.  You think there are any senators and congressmen in this Country that don't eat meat every day.  Heck our President lives on cheeseburgers.  He admitted it.  And so could I.  

What are they really trying to prepare us for?    Wow, glad I got that off my chest in three paragraphs.  Now I feel better.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 23, 2011)

I have to say that from a logistical point of view I believe the article is right.   You can grow vegetable matter and eat it yourself or you can grow vegetable matter to feed a meat animal and then eat the meat animal. From a production stand point it takes twice as much 'energy' to grow meat than to grow vegetables in our current food system. 


 Now from the point of view of a lot of people on the board, we are growing our own meat and a lot of us manage to do it with leftovers from other industries or little input from outside sources (ie using pasturing, grass fed, etc.)  The article is not directed at us but at those who buy commercially grown meat only and subsist on it.   I don't think that as a species we we evolved to be vegetarian. It can be done but it requires dietary management and children do not do well on a vegan or vegetarian only diet.   But that's just my opinion. 

If as a culture, meaning the whole country, ate 20% less beef/chicken/pork/fish and instead consumed the fruits, veggies and grains (that I see thrown out every day at the store) what would that do to our food supply? Who knows.  Would it help? Would it crash the meat market? Would things even out over a year or three?   It's all theoretical anyway.  


I think it's an interesting point of view to think about. Not necessarily one that needs to draw immediate attack.   As far as "the same government" the poster is from Pakistan, you are from NJ and the article is from Canada.  Clearly something in the article is a sensitive subject for you.   Let's just try to play nice if discussing it.


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## FarmGuru (Oct 23, 2011)

why people are so angry.


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## elevan (Oct 23, 2011)

This could make for a very good discussion if members remember the rules  and play nice.

Keep in mind that this is an *international *forum as well.


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## Stacykins (Oct 23, 2011)

Well, most Americans do eat too much meat. I mean, a proper serving size of meat is about the size of a _deck of cards_, which is 3 to 4 ounces. But how many people when they eat meat eat such a small piece? Nope, they get gargantuan 8-12 ounce slabs of meat. Way more than your body needs. You won't get amino acid and iron deficiencies eating a the proper serving size. Other cultures are much more healthy because they consume much less meat. When I lived in Japan, very little of a meal was meat, if at all. It was mostly vegetables, legumes, grains, and fruit. Not half a cow on a plate.


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## Ms. Research (Oct 23, 2011)

Playing nice.  That statement has many meanings in my lifetime.  

I was told to play nice when I started getting involved in what Governments and some special interest groups thought about the clean up of the 4th Deadliest Superfund Site in the Nation that is in my backyard, my Township.  When I was through researching this Superfund site called GEMS, I unraveled the fact that:

1.  Man Made Uranium in that landfill that has no bottom designed to keep the radioactive toxins contained.  

2.  That that bottomless landfill SITS in a Federally Protected Aquifer that is the Water Source for New Jersey as well as the Southern States below.

3.  That the Phase I Cap, designed to keep the water from going into the landfill causing more water problems is compromised.  It has inadequate clay.  The SIGNED Phase I Final Report that I have in my possession and have presented to Federal, State, County and Local Governments states that it is inadequate and that warranty work was supposed to be done.  The erosion on that landfill is continuing.  The underdrain is not working and the flooding is terrible.  One storm man hole covers were popping off.   Now note this is man made uranium, not naturally occurring that the Government signed off on and agreed by Special Interest Groups.

4.  We are under a Federal Consent Order.  Signed without my knowledge or consent making me a defendant for this and making me pay millions toward this Superfund site.  Under Open Space, this 4th Deadliest Superfund Site is considered a FUTURE PARK.

Because my version of being nice was to inform the people of this.  Get a reinvestigation of what occurred considering I am paying for the liability of that land.  Get a health study that has not been performed in that area since 1980.  

What I got for not playing nice by their version:

My husband's business was ruined
I was deemed crazy and a bad mother
My son was pushed into lockers at school.  Tormented to know end.  And was attacked to a point he had to go to the Nurse's office just to go to the bathroom in peace.  
The police could do nothing.  The school board RUNS this township and are a PLAINTIFF in this Lawsuit under this Federal Consent Order.


All because I proved them wrong.  And this is the Government.  This is the School System.  

So if you think playing nice will get the ACTUAL cause that you discuss where it should be.  For the People.  So Be It.  

If you think they won't look at your land and it's just commercial.  So Be It.  

I know what a Government, and people who play nice to the Government, do.  It's never for the People.  And their attitude of "They know what's best".  Well I know they are wrong.  

Sorry I don't play nice that way.  So I'll be silent since you know what's best.   I'll worry about what's best for me. 

Have a Nice Day.


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## elevan (Oct 23, 2011)

Playing nice = being respectful of fellow members and being polite in your responses.  

Members of course will have differing opinions and that is one of the things that makes this forum great.  Those opinions can be given in a polite and respectful manner.



			
				Nifty said:
			
		

> *Trolling & Forum Etiquette:*
> A few reminders on proper forum etiquette: http://www.ehow.com/how_2106033_use-proper-forum-etiquette.html
> 
> 1)  We must respect that others have different opinions, but we must be civil and friendly even if we don't agree.
> ...


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## redtailgal (Oct 23, 2011)

erm........I dont know about this. 


I guess it makes sense, but I think the best thing for folks to do is step up and take charge of their own food supply.  People need to stop relying mass produced food and just do something as simple as plant as garden.  

I wonder if there have been any studies on what effect there would be if the available space were used more effectively?  Do we really need huge yards to mow.........could people not plant their own food in that huge yard?

I wonder what would change if more people from around the world became more self sufficient..........


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## kstaven (Oct 23, 2011)

One thing never mentioned in most of these arguments is Good Quality nutrient dense food vs. minimal nutrient versions of the same. In many areas there is more of the later grown rather than the former. So to get what they require quantities have to increase. 

Part of the reason many move towards producing more of their own.


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## greybeard (Oct 28, 2011)

Stacykins said:
			
		

> Well, most Americans do eat too much meat. I mean, a proper serving size of meat is about the size of a _deck of cards_, which is 3 to 4 ounces.


Define "proper" please. 
3-4 oz--That would be what--about the equivilent of 3 Soylent Green wafers? (ya never know where the world is headed)






> But how many people when they eat meat eat such a small piece? Nope, they get gargantuan 8-12 ounce slabs of meat. Way more than your body needs. You won't get amino acid and iron deficiencies eating a the proper serving size. Other cultures are much more healthy because they consume much less meat. When I lived in Japan, very little of a meal was meat, if at all. It was mostly vegetables, legumes, grains, and fruit. Not half a cow on a plate.


We in this country, do not eat nearly enough fish. Can't blame us tho--heavy metal problems, freshness--all the other scares, tho most of the time, our food supply is among the safest in the world, but then again, mankind didn't work it's way to the top of the foodchain by eating like a rabbit.  
 As far as healthy, I'm in my 60s, eat whatever I want and I want a lot. Other than for a snakebite, I haven't been to a doctor in--well, can't remember, but it's certainly been over 25 years-maybe 35 years. I like my bacon chicken fried, and my tbone med rare.
YRMV

As far as people growing food instead of cultivating huge beautiful ornamental lawns, I suspect the global livestock #s would instantly double. Every zoning commission and HOA enforcement council would have a cow just at the thought of it..


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## kstaven (Oct 28, 2011)

greybeard said:
			
		

> Every zoning commission and HOA enforcement council would have a cow just at the thought of it..


Personally I think it would be worth it just to see the look on their faces.      

But then again, I do have an odd sense of humor. Pretty sure it is all that Celt heritage.


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## Ms. Research (Oct 28, 2011)

greybeard said:
			
		

> Stacykins said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My DH states if he can't stop the bleeding, maybe he will think about going to a doctor.  No trust, no faith, no way.  We eat what we want when we want and how we want.  Sorry, not going to have someone tell me what I can and can not eat.  I'm an adult.  I think by now at 50 years old, I know what's best for me.  Please don't put me in a box or catagory.  But unfortunately that's the only way they can deal with people.  Must have a catagory.  

And regarding the Zoning and HOA enforcement, maybe they should start growing cattle rather than grass.  Maybe we might get these inspectors to actually do something.  Better yet, actually know something.  They are not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier.  DH has to deal with them all the time.  And DH's past experiences with them is, you be amazed at what they SHOULD BUT DON'T know.   Unfortunately 80% of those jobs are patronage.  Who knows who.  And they are constantly changing.


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## redtailgal (Oct 28, 2011)

Greybeard wrote: We in this country, do not eat nearly enough fish. Can't blame us tho--heavy metal problems, freshness--all the other scares, tho most of the time, our food supply is among the safest in the world, but then again, mankind didn't work it's way to the top of the foodchain by eating like a rabbit.  

*AGREED.  This backs up my theory that we are not facing a food shortage, we are insteand facing an intelligence and common sense shortage.
Society in general is getting dumber and more lazy with each passing generation.  I watched a movie called "Idiocracy".  It was an hysterical comedy, but was making a rather blunt point on the status of society in general.  If you get the chance to watch it, do so.  It will bring a laugh even if you dont agree with the political statement.

By the way, Greybeard, Welcome to the group!*


Greybeard also wrote: As far as healthy, I'm in my 60s, eat whatever I want and I want a lot. Other than for a snakebite, I haven't been to a doctor in--well, can't remember, but it's certainly been over 25 years-maybe 35 years. I like my bacon chicken fried, and my tbone med rare.
YRMV

*Good for you! But, I would bet that you dont spend your day in the recliner with a bag of chips.  You kinda strike me as the up and at'em sort of guy. 
Every grey bearded Marine that I know (and I know a few) never loses that "Semper Fi, do or die" attitude.  It keeps you alive and it keeps you healthy (and eating steak, lol).  How are your knees, though?  lol, I'm being silly, you dont have to answer.  Many of my older USMC friends have had knee and/or hip replacements or repairs, again going back to the "do or die".  They all had their surgery, came home to eat a steak and tater dinner and smiled about their perfect cholesterol.*

Greybeard wrote: As far as people growing food instead of cultivating huge beautiful ornamental lawns, I suspect the global livestock #s would instantly double. Every zoning commission and HOA enforcement council would have a cow just at the thought of it..


*Yes, I think you are right.  But the boost in livestock population would only be temporary.  As people became more self sufficient, their wouldnt be a need for the larger commerical dairy and meat herds, nor would their be a need for so many chicken houses.  Food waste would be considerably less, people are not gonna be so quick to poor milk down the drain if they get up and milk their own cow.

There is a community in the mountains near where I live that has a community farm.  They have one very large garden that each person cans out of. The familys rotate working the garden, so no family has to be out there every day (thus making grow your own food available without being tied to the farm.  Each family contributes the $$$ needed to buy the equipment, 500$ per family bought a NICE tractor.  They have a chicken coop with about 100 birds, that free range in the cow pasture along with a small beef and dairy herd.  As with the garden, animal chores are rotated.  This works great for these people, they are self sufficient, but no one has to miss a vacation or get up at 6 am to milk a cow when they are sick.  They have their problems, but they always work it out.  This community has been doing this for over 25 years.*

Ms. Research wrote: My DH states if he can't stop the bleeding, maybe he will think about going to a doctor.  No trust, no faith, no way.  We eat what we want when we want and how we want

*Tell your hubby that everything stops bleeding eventually.  lol*


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## elevan (Oct 28, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> This backs up my theory that we are not facing a food shortage, we are insteand facing an intelligence and common sense shortage.
> Society in general is getting dumber and more lazy with each passing generation.


I happen to agree.

If SHTF tomorrow the majority of people would be in trouble.


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## redtailgal (Oct 28, 2011)

I have heard many folks talk about the people who would starve if the shtf.

I worry more about the way lazy, hungry people would react.  I think alot of good people would starve, or die trying to protect their livelyhood.

Walk softly, carry a big stick and sleep in the barn with a gun.  I've done it before, and I would do it again, lol.


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## greybeard (Oct 28, 2011)

Redtailgal, if ya notice, a lot of my post times are odd hrs, my day starts rather early and usually ends just a few hrs before that time. I don't have much of a requirement for sleep either--4 hrs is enough most of the time. 
(before daybreak today, I had to get the machinery all lubed and ready to finish  planting winter rye early this morning while it was still raining.)
No, I do not sit around much, which is why I have always kinda chuckled at the "one size serving fits all" theories. What may work for someone with a sedentary lifestyle, will not work for someone who is constantly active. People need to, in all things, do what works for THEM--not for someone else. 

There's another side to all this, and it is even more disturbing to me. There seems to be a growing attitude in the world, that all the ills of the world can be solved if the developed nations give up what they have to the lesser developed or even to the emerging nations. ("3rd world nations" is no longer a politically correct term or so i am told)  Basically, what the article implies, is, instead of (or is it in cunjunction with?) wealth redistribution, we should embark on a path of food redistribution--hasn't been too long ago I read a similar article saying we used far more energy than we should and should cut back so those same nations would have more.  I'm beginning to see a pattern, a pattern that is as ancient as mankind itself. Not good at all.


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## redtailgal (Oct 28, 2011)

Grey Beard, I think that me and you could get along pretty good, lol.

I hate the whole share the wealth mentality.  It takes away a persons drive and motivation to do better, to go the extra mile and to work harder.

I work hard and enjoy the fruits of my labor, fresh veggies and quality meat. A person who sits on their duff all day, can whine and complain and resent it all they want, but they havent earned my fruits, veggies and meat.  I will often swap with neighbors, they want some of my tomatos they bring me a bag of potatoes and we make a deal.  I like that.

However, I have another neighbor in the neighborhood who thinks that I am being "unneighborly" to not GIVE her some of my tomatoes everytime she asks.  She is a single mom of two boys, ages 10 and 12, both in school, yet she does not work.  She gets that welfare check and foodstamps and is living large without having to work.

Share the wealth only breeds laziness.  It will contribute to the problem, in my opinion.

Yup, you keep some odd hours, I noticed this while I was keeping my own odds hours, lol.


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## Ms. Research (Oct 28, 2011)

> Redtailgal stated:
> 
> Ms. Research wrote: My DH states if he can't stop the bleeding, maybe he will think about going to a doctor.  No trust, no faith, no way.  We eat what we want when we want and how we want
> 
> Tell your hubby that everything stops bleeding eventually.  lol


Cute


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## 77Herford (Oct 28, 2011)

Hmm, if RedTailGal is my long lost sister, then GreyBeard is what my long lost uncle, lol.


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