# Don't judge me.. but I want more



## MrsKuhn (May 4, 2016)

okay okay, so I have been researching more and more and I am stumped. When I first purchased goats I was going for looks, you know the cute factor. Now I am getting more interested in the Breeding to sell ( who am I kidding.. and keep  ) / possibly Milking.

I currently have two Pygmy / Nigerian dwarf goats on the way, so my lovely goat addicts, is this a good milking breed ( I know they are a milking breed just don't know how well they do ) or should I use these mainly to sell the kids and get some Nubians? Thoughts?


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## TAH (May 4, 2016)

How much milk do you want? 
Do you want show quality goats?
Do you like big of small goats?
How much land do you have for your goats?
What do you plan on making with the milk?


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## MrsKuhn (May 4, 2016)

TAH said:


> How much milk do you want?
> Do you want show quality goats?
> Do you like big of small goats?
> How much land do you have for your goats?
> What do you plan on making with the milk?



you my dear are quickly become my best friend 

I don't plan on showing them? but plans change so who knows down the road, this is just me dabbling in the goat world
I like the smaller goats, but I like the way the Nubian look.

To be honest, I used to be petrified of goats,  the ones at petting zoos freak me out.. like no thank you but now that I am proud owner of two and I can pick mine out they are growing quickly as a new obsession.

I have 2 acres

Making things with milk? umm maybe soap? and just drinking it, I don't know I haven't had goat milk...


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## babsbag (May 4, 2016)

You are in so much trouble....Goats come in all flavors and all have their +/-  The usual dairy breeds are Nubian, LaMancha, Alpine, Saanen, Oberhasli, Toggenburgs, and Nigerain Dwarf. 

I have ventured into the world of minis and for me that is mini Alpines. But next year I might be breeding some mini Nubians too. A friend has a really nice Nubian doe that she wants to breed and show but no Nubian buck so unless she gets a buck we are going to breed to my Nigerian Dwarf buck and make some mini Nubians. I have no desire to keep them, only to breed them. 

Nubians typically have great milk, but they are also known for being very vocal. I like my quiet goats. Nigis probably have THE best milk when it comes to butterfat and that is why people like the minis. You get a smaller goat with milk with high butterfat, but it will produce more than a Nigi.  Kinda a win win. 

We need to talk...  The most important thing when you get your goats is to make sure they are healthy. Things I wish I had known when I bought my first 3, but I was actually pretty lucky.


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## Latestarter (May 4, 2016)

From what I understand, Pygmy are more a meat breed but their milk, though low in quantity is pretty good in quality. The Nigies are pretty much accepted as the highest butter fat producers (cream, sweet milk). So the cross you're buying, though small, is just that, a cross. If you cross a pygmy with a nubian, you get a "kinder", another cross that's gained in popularity. Many folks want more milk than a dwarf provides, but don't want the size or feed expense of a full sized goat, and that's where the "mini's" started becoming popular. Breed a Nigie buck with one of the full sized breed does, and you get a mid sized goat with almost the same production of the full sized with less expense for feed and less space required to keep them. Like TAH said, the first most important question is how much milk do you want/need? Just so you know, a full sized dairy goat can give a gallon or more milk a day. Sannens have been known to give almost 2 .

Since you're so close to Babs, you really should set a time and meet. Then you can meet a variety of goats and try the milk for yourself and make up your own mind. Like she says, you are in SOoooooo much trouble!


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## MrsKuhn (May 4, 2016)

babsbag said:


> The most important thing when you get your goats is to make sure they are healthy.



I agree and I want to keep them healthy. It is a constant fear that I am not going to do right and something will happen to them.

 And when you do breed the Nigi & the Nubian hit me up, I want one 



babsbag said:


> We need to talk...



 Hope I'm not in trouble, feel like my mom just used my full name


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## MrsKuhn (May 4, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> .
> 
> Since you're so close to Babs, you really should set a time and meet. Then you can meet a variety of goats and try the milk for yourself and make up your own mind. Like she says, you are in SOoooooo much trouble!



Agreed, @babsbag when can I come frolic on the  farm  



Latestarter said:


> Just so you know, a full sized dairy goat can give a gallon or more milk a day. Saneness have been known to give almost 2



I don't need that much milk. I don't know if I even like it


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## Southern by choice (May 4, 2016)

these are my mini nubian doelings from this year


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## MrsKuhn (May 4, 2016)

@Southern by choice Are you ENCOURAGING!  *They are GORGEOUS *

It is settled I *MUST* get me some! ASAP


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## babsbag (May 4, 2016)

@MrsKuhn   No, you aren't in trouble...yet    But let's keep it that way.   You also need to think about a buck. If you want to breed the doe you are buying then it needs to be a nigi or pygmy buck, you wouldn't want to breed her to a standard sized buck. It gets complicated to say the least. I will own 4 or 5 bucks this year because I have multiple breeds of goats. Also think about registered or unregistered. 

I don't want to scare you but if you are serious about more goats and breeding then this is what I will tell you. When looking for healthy goats there are two diseases you need to be aware of. One is Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis (CAE) and the other is Caseous Lymphadenitis (CL). Both are contagious, both can be tested for. You can't test a kid until about 6 months but if the herd is tested that it came from then you are pretty safe. There is one other disease making it rounds and it is called Johnes. Used to be mostly in cattle but more and more goats are getting it. Again, it is something you can test for but you probably won't find a breeder doing it. (I just started last year). But if you buy any goats that are living with cattle be very careful.


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## MrsKuhn (May 4, 2016)

The breeder I am purchasing from doesn't have cattle so hopefully I am safe on that one. And she does test her heard and they are negative on those. I told you I am an ocd, over protective, research everything to get your ducks in a row kind of gal  however I did not know about Johnes, good to know for the future. And I know I need to breed my does with minis for the least complications. Just haven't bought my own buck yet, and not 100% sure if I want to or if I should find a breeder that I trust and stud out.. I heard they are nasty creatures but I have yet to meet one that seemed that way. My breeder has one and he was the most sweetest and calm goat. He was allowed to hang out with the group and he just wander off on his own a lot


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## Latestarter (May 4, 2016)

Just as an aside on the milking issue... You don't "have" to take a gallon of milk a day from them... You can leave the/her kid(s) to nurse and only milk once a day (or every other day) to get what you need and allow the kids to use the rest that mom produces. The thing is, mom will start to wean the kids at some point and if you don't milk mom every day at that point, she will dry up and - no more milk till after she kids again...

As for pure bred vs mixed/crosses, and show goats, typically breeders who show their goats sell the kids for substantially more than what a back yard breeder can get. That does NOT mean that the breeder's goats are better... they just have"titles" and such. Also, pure bred normally sell for more than typical cross bred. That's where the "registered vs unregistered" comes in. A (pure bred) goat registered with one of the registries allows you to back track the genetics and have a better idea of what you'll be producing when you breed.

And oh my, those mini nubians that Southern showed pictures of... almost to die for! They are soooooo beautiful! I want mini manchas, but just for the sake of pure eye candy, I wouldn't mind owning one or both of those!


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## Southern by choice (May 4, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Also, pure bred normally sell for more than typical cross bred. That's where the "registered vs unregistered" comes in.



Keep in mind minis are crossed but they can be registered and truth be told they can be very expensive.

I   my mini manchas (the no eared goat) they have awesome personalities! Very smart though. 

Bucks- nasty?  

Nooooooooooooooooo I have like 14 or something like that... I love my bucks!


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## MrsKuhn (May 4, 2016)

so the peeing on the face thing??? is that a myth or only with certain goat breeds @Southern by choice


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## animalmom (May 4, 2016)

All bucks will anoint themselves with their "l'eau d'amore" when there is a doe in heat... more does in heat more anointing.  I have Nigerian Dwarfs and own three bucks.  Love my bucks even though on occasion they can get a little fragrant and rowdy.  Even though my little goats are year around breeders the bucks don't get crazy in love until the fall.  My little men are charming, loving, and delightful to have around.  Would sooner part with my right arm than to go buckless.  Got to have my boys.


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## Southern by choice (May 4, 2016)

Yeah they do but not all the time. 
It is their "love" scent.


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## TAH (May 4, 2016)

Since you like the minis and the nubians, you should do mini Nubians. Our friend has one mini Nubian that milks about 3 Quart's a day.


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## babsbag (May 4, 2016)

@ragdollcatlady, are you going to have any mini nubian does for sale this year or are you hoarding them?  (if you even have any).

I like my bucks too; you just learn to avoid doing any work with them during the fall. The rest of the time they are just one of the herd. As a matter of fact mine may literally be WITH the herd for a few days while I build them a new pen. This time of year they don't smell and my does are all seasonal breeders so I don't have to worry about that but I bet it gets rowdy out there even still.


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## MrsKuhn (May 4, 2016)

TAH said:


> Since you like the minis and the nubians, you should do mini Nubians. Our friend has one mini Nubian that milks about 3 Quart's a day.



I like your thinking


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## MrsKuhn (May 4, 2016)

@Southern by choice & @animalmom 

Thank you for the buck encouragement. I guess I will put that on my list of what to purchase next. Now to figure out what breed I want to get him or them in lol

Can you put two bucks together or do they fight?


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## OneFineAcre (May 4, 2016)

MrsKuhn said:


> @Southern by choice & @animalmom
> 
> Thank you for the buck encouragement. I guess I will put that on my list of what to purchase next. Now to figure out what breed I want to get him or them in lol
> 
> Can you put two bucks together or do they fight?



I have 8 bucks that live together.
They scuffle some in the fall, but for the most part its peaceful.


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## babsbag (May 4, 2016)

I have my bucks together most of the time. I do separate them during rut as mine will fight over the ladies but they share a fence line with the does. It might be more peaceful if the ladies weren't there flaunting it all in their faces.  I also separate because of size, I have two big and a small so not quite fair to the little guy. They are all together right now with no problems.


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## MrsKuhn (May 4, 2016)

Thank you for your expertise and sharing your knowledge y'all. I really appreciate it.


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## babsbag (May 4, 2016)

MrsKuhn said:


> Now to figure out what breed I want to get him or them in lol



Oh oh...them ??? She may have joined the addicts thread but she didn't heed  the warnings.


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## TAH (May 4, 2016)

We have only have one buck but he gets along great with our wether. But i have lots of friends that have bucks together and they do fine.


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## TAH (May 4, 2016)

MrsKuhn said:


> Thank you for your expertise and sharing your knowledge y'all. I really appreciate it.


Your welcome. I'am very glad everyone is able to help you.


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## Ferguson K (May 4, 2016)

Our bucks get along unless the girls are in heat. They don't mind their mini me's running around either.


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## norseofcourse (May 4, 2016)

animalmom said:


> Love my bucks even though on occasion they can get a little fragrant...


Apple blossoms are fragrant.  Lily of the valley is fragrant.

It takes a true goat addict to describe a pungent male goat as 'fragrant'!


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## Southern by choice (May 4, 2016)

No, our bucks do not fight. When we add baby bucks the older ones take care of them. We have NO blubbering, NO obnoxious behavior. No buck is allowed to blubber at humans. We teach them young.


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## ragdollcatlady (May 4, 2016)

babsbag said:


> @ragdollcatlady, are you going to have any mini nubian does for sale this year or are you hoarding them? (if you even have any).



I am hoarding the one little girl that was born so far this year. Madeline is my favorite color pattern and has blue eyes so I couldn't help my self. I had exposed our other nubian to a nigerian too, but she didn't like the guy that was offered so she is dry this year. We might do mini nubians again this fall since I still don't have a nubian buck. Haven't seen any that like. 



MrsKuhn said:


> Can you put two bucks together or do they fight?



I keep my nigetrian bucks together, but the boer bucks fight like MMA masters so they need their own spaces.


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## TAH (May 4, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> We have NO blubbering, NO obnoxious behavior. No buck is allowed to blubber at humans. We teach them young.


Same with ours and when he does he gets told he is not behaving.


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## ragdollcatlady (May 4, 2016)

babsbag said:


> A friend has a really nice Nubian doe that she wants to breed and show but no Nubian buck so unless she gets a buck we are going to breed to my Nigerian Dwarf buck and make some mini Nubians.



I do have a mini nubian buckling with blue eyes and a chocolate moonspot for sale.... He is out of our gorgeous nubian Brie and Nigi Swagger if anyone is interested.


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## babsbag (May 5, 2016)

@ragdollcatlady under no circumstances can I own another breed of goat. I can breed them but I can't keep them. Nope, no how, no way. 

So @MrsKuhn here is your chance to get a quality buckling from a good clean herd, and a really nice person too. She lives about 6 hours from you but she comes up this way now and then.

Yes...I am playing matchmaker


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## MrsKuhn (May 5, 2016)

Is that Kenny you are speaking about, are you keeping Whoopsie? lol


ragdollcatlady said:


> I do have a mini nubian buckling with blue eyes and a chocolate moonspot for sale.... He is out of our gorgeous nubian Brie and Nigi Swagger if anyone is interested.


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## babsbag (May 5, 2016)

I am sure she will keep Whoopsie. She is 1/2 Boer and oh so cute. LOVE those spots and the blue eyes are just a deal breaker. 

I believe her mini Nubian buck is indeed Kenny.


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## MrsKuhn (May 5, 2016)

I figured 


babsbag said:


> I am sure she will keep Whoopsie. She is 1/2 Boer and oh so cute. LOVE those spots and the blue eyes are just a deal breaker.
> 
> I believe her mini Nubian buck is indeed Kenny.


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## ragdollcatlady (May 5, 2016)

Yes, Kenny is the mini nubian buckling. He is a beautiful little guy! I just don't have anyone I can use him over right now. 

Whoopsie is staying. Don't exactly know what I will do with her besides drool over her cuteness, but her auntie Bellini is giving me enough milk for my coffee every morning on top of feeding one kid so I could always argue that she will be a milker.... Sometimes any reason will do when you are a true addict!


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## Southern by choice (May 5, 2016)

ragdollcatlady said:


> Sometimes any reason will do when you are a true addict!



Oh this is so true. 



ragdollcatlady said:


> He is a beautiful little guy! I just don't have anyone I can use him over right now.



I have the same problem. Maybe next year we can swap some does?


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## babsbag (May 6, 2016)

ragdollcatlady said:


> Sometimes any reason will do when you are a true addict!



And isn't that just the way it is. 

I was going to milk both of my 1/2 Boer does just to see how it tasted but they were both such a brat that I sold them without ever putting them on the milk stand. One was still pregnant.  I bet the ND/Boer milk will be tasty.


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## ragdollcatlady (May 6, 2016)

Boer milk is good, kind of like the nubian milk. Plain unsugared variety. Nigerian milk tastes like some one added sugar and cream to it. That was weird at first, but now I love it. Bellini is giving me more milk right now than any of my others since they all have 2 kids on them still. I get a squirt or two from everyone else and 2 cups from Bellini, milking only once a day to keep her comfortable since her kid only uses one side.


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## babsbag (May 6, 2016)

It's nice when  a Boer has enough milk to share, especially a first timer. I wonder how long the lactation will be...can they go the distance?


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## Ferguson K (May 7, 2016)

Lilly has a HUGE udder ... almost made me want to keep her cute kid...

But she's got a third nipple. So off to the market her kids go. I'll add her genes to the freezer pool.

I love her to much to sell her.

That justifies me buying another doe without telling the husband, right? 

Well.... the goats bought another goat.


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## babsbag (May 7, 2016)

@Ferguson K   What kind of goat is Lilly? And Boer in the genes?


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## Ferguson K (May 7, 2016)

She's a commercial Boer from registered stock.


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## babsbag (May 7, 2016)

@Ferguson K  You do know that multiple teats are allowed as long as they aren't a fishtail? I have seen does with 3 on each side, very very common and acceptable.


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## Ferguson K (May 7, 2016)

@babsbag 

I have only ever shown wethers in Boer. Lilly is a permanent fixture here, but, I'll likely not be keeping her doeling.


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## babsbag (May 7, 2016)

That would not be a fault so sell her for breeding and not auction, you might get more money.


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## MsDeb (May 10, 2016)

MrsKuhn said:


> Agreed, @babsbag when can I come frolic on the  farm
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need that much milk. I don't know if I even like it


Try it, you'll like it!  Actually you'll probably never want to drink milk from the grocery store again.


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## Mike CHS (May 10, 2016)

babs - what is the fishtail in reference to teats that you mentioned.  I'm assuming the 3rd teat would be split?


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## MsDeb (May 10, 2016)

And this is another reason why I'm never on. Can only get on at work. Have been slipping on early before anyone arrives but I had to do a quick check in today. This thread has me struggling to keep from  and makes it very hard to maintain the illusion of working.
Peeing on beard.  I was holding our week old babies yesterday and (because it's already firmly established, no question, that we're keeping both of them) and commented to hubby that it's hard to imagine the little 5 pound cuddle grown and peeing on his beard.

And on that train if thought, our mid-20's single son had a bottle of some very expensive cologne.  (Very expensive apparently = very smelly.)  He kept asking his dad if he wanted some and my husband kept saying no. Finally he just sprayed him anyway and it soaked into his jacket. We had to drop son off at a friend's house so the car was filled with men reeking of "very expensive" cologne.  As soon as we got him out of the car my hubby said "I've got to get home and get out of this jacket. I feel like Max smells when he's peed on his beard."


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## Mike CHS (May 10, 2016)

I knew there was a reason we never buy the good stuff.


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## MrsKuhn (May 10, 2016)

MsDeb said:


> As soon as we got him out of the car my hubby said "I've got to get home and get out of this jacket. I feel like Max smells when he's peed on his beard."



 That is hilarious!


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