# Khaleesi & Aaliyah's Kidding Thread



## thailand (Feb 18, 2017)

Hi everyone,

It's been a while since I last posted here and lot's has happened while I've been away.  Khaleesi and Aaliyah are both very pregnant and are due to kid Wednesday 22nd February.  Well....that is, Khaleesi is due then, Aaliyah is anyone's guess although she appears to be at about the same stage as her mother Khaleesi.  My how time has flown....my little Aaliyah is about to be a first time mother.

It's been interesting to see the personality difference between the two.  Khaleesi same as last time has become SUPER affectionate and clingy during her preganancy, whereas Aaliyah is definately a "don't touch me" kinda girl.  If I try to feel for babies she'll turn her head and try to nip me!

I'm excited to see what we have this time.  I think Khaleesi may be a little bigger this time around and so I'm wondering if there just might be triplets in there!

During my absence from BYH we've had the girl's pen and house remodeled some.  Aaliyah was caught on video sailing over the top of the pen fence and so we've had that heightened with steel, taken away a door and added a new steel one, and divided their house into two birthing pens (bigger than what Khaleesi had to birth in last year) and there's still ample room for a hanging about area in front of their pens inside the house. Oh and we've bought a steel milk stand.  I'm very pleased  

I've attached some photos of the work done recently.


   

 


And here's the milkstand:

 

And lastly, here's Jabari's new accommodation   He'll be joined here with one of his sons (once these babies are born and we will wether the new boy).

  

Unfortunately not very long (like a day!!) after these new digs were built I discovered Jabari could easily sail over the top of the pen fence.  You can see the silver horizontal steel bars behind the black fencing.  So, as a quick and cheap remedy we quickly had our workman weld some spare bedframes to the silver steel pipework.  I'm going to spray paint the black with silver as soon as I get a chance and it will hopefully all blend in well.  He's not getting out of there in a hurry!!

Now....just waiting for those new babies.


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## samssimonsays (Feb 18, 2017)

Ahhhh congrats! Can't wait to see the new babies! And wow! Look at those goat houses!  the girls are looking great!


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## thailand (Feb 18, 2017)

Thanks.     Yeah.....it's gonna take everything I have to not want to keep the new babies that's for sure!


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 18, 2017)

Welcome back! Congratulations on the kiddos due soon!


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## thailand (Feb 18, 2017)

Hi.  Thanks for the welcome back.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 19, 2017)

The houses for the goats look great! And I love Aaliyah's ears.


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## thailand (Feb 19, 2017)

LOL....I love her ears too.  I'm hoping we might get at least one buckling the same as Aaliyah - black and white.

Just got in from feeding the goats and Khaleesi is acting different.  Her ligs are definately gone now and she's lot quieter and slower, taking small slow steps. She's also not as hungry as usual.  Hmmm...we'll see.


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## TAH (Feb 19, 2017)

...


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## thailand (Feb 20, 2017)

I 'think' Khaleesi might be having contractions now.  Seems to be pausing and arching her tail over her back, holding it there for a bit and then relaxing it.  Pre-labour contractions???

Edited to add, she's not due for another 2 days...Wednesday.


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## thailand (Feb 20, 2017)

Checked on her again and she was laying underneath their house in the dirt.  Stood up, pawed the ground a couple of times and then layed back down.  Refused to get up.  Tail arching heaps again.  I managed to get her up the steps into her birthing pen.  The wait is on!


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## thailand (Feb 20, 2017)

Babies have been born.  A buckling and a doeling.....sadly the doeling was stillborn.


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 20, 2017)

So sorry about the doeling 
Congrats on the buckling


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 20, 2017)

So sorry you lost one, but congrats on the little guy!


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## dejavoodoo114 (Feb 20, 2017)

Sorry about the doeling. I hate loosing kids.


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## thailand (Feb 20, 2017)

Thanks guys....it's so sad....she was beautiful.  She was born immediately after the buckling with no break in between and appeared to share the same sac.  Does that sound correct?

Unfortunately I was forced by circumstances to leave the buck in with the does until only recently.  He had been a problem with head butting the girls in their pregnant sides.  I'm supposing this was the likely cause of the stillbirth.  The doeling was fully formed, nothing malformed at all, but she was smaller than the buckling a wee bit.  The little guy is doing really well.....a box of beans!  Splitting image of his dad Jabari.  Depending on what Aaliyah has, we may keep this solo kid as Jabari's penmate.

Still waiting on Aaliyah to give birth.  No signs yet.  I think I've felt her baby/ies moving today so hopefully all is good with hers.


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## samssimonsays (Feb 20, 2017)

So sorry for the loss of the doeling  Glad mom and other baby are doing well though.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 20, 2017)

I'm so sorry about the doeling.  

Congratulations on the healthy buckling though!


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## TAH (Feb 20, 2017)

Sorry about the doiling
Glad you got a healthy buckling


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## Latestarter (Feb 20, 2017)

Hey, welcome back and all the residences for the goats look great! Nicely done!  Sorry you lost the doeling, that's a shame, but you do have a healthy bucking. From the looks of both those girls udders @ the beginning of the thread, they both looked close to me so wasn't surprised that Khaleesi had already kidded as I read and caught up. I don't think Aaliyah will be far behind. Jabari looks a bit upset with the added bed frames...   Poor guy...  Looking fwd to pictures of the next kids born!


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## animalmom (Feb 20, 2017)

Goodness gracious how time flies.  It just seems like you were posting questions about Khaleesi birth (last year).  I'm not showing my goaties where your goaties live... jealous goaties are not happy goaties.

Sorry for the loss of the doeling.  Good luck with Aaliyah.  

My how your herd has grown!


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## thailand (Feb 20, 2017)

Thanks friends  .  Just been and checked on the little guy and he's warm and happy.  He has his mother's personality and LOVES cuddles.  Comes to me immediately looking for face rubs  .  Trying not to love him too much just yet....never know what Aaliyah might have, and if she has a buckling too then we'll have to choose between the two.  Aaah...choices!

Aaliyah is still preggers with no signs of imminent birth happening this morning.

Here's a photo from yesterday afternoon's events.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 20, 2017)

What a handsome buckling! So glad he's doing alright. 
I can't wait to see Aaliyah's kid(s)!


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## norseofcourse (Feb 21, 2017)

Congrats on the buckling, and sorry about the girl     I hope everything goes well with your other goat (and soon!).


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## thailand (Feb 21, 2017)

Hey guys....just a quick question if I may.  Khaleesi has huge teats really full of colustrum/milk, and as she now only has just one kid, are there any precautions I should be taking with her to keep her udder healthy?  What I mean is, should I be concerned about one kid not being enough to drain her supply sufficiently?  I am trying to avoid mastitis or any other issues from surfacing.  Maybe I'm overthinking/worrying too much??  Thanks.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 21, 2017)

I would probably try to milk Khaleesi if I were you. Is her buckling only nursing from one side? Or even if he can't completely empty her out I would just go ahead and milk her most of the way, still leaving some for her buckling.
I'm not sure, but it looks as if Khaleesi's teats are really inflated. Is her buckling having trouble nursing on them?

And is there anything new with Aaliyah?


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## thailand (Feb 21, 2017)

Nothing new on Aaliyah this morning.  She is very 'touchy' and won't let me feel her tummy or check her ligs.  She's been that way all through her pregnancy.  I did manage to feel her tummy last night though and there is 100% a live baby in there  

Khaleesi...hmmmm, I might try milking her a bit then.  Yes, her teats have been inflated like that the last couple of days.  The buckling seems to be happy, not crying for food at all and I've seen him peeing.  I've seen him try to suckle and yesterday he appeared to be doing ok with getting fed.  I think he's slowly figuring it out.  He is trying to suckle both teats.  Thanks Goatgirl, I will attend to milking Khaleesi after I get back this morning from picking up some more hay.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 21, 2017)

Oh, good! As long as Khaleesi's buckling is happy and bouncing around he's getting enough milk.


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## thailand (Feb 21, 2017)

Just milked her.  Her teat on the right hand side was very firm....got some out.  I'll be keeping an eye on things.  Hey - another question....how soon do you let your kids outside?  I'm worried about cocci etc.  I don't usually give cocci meds until the kids are around 4 weeks old.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 22, 2017)

I usually let my kids outside when they are only 1-2 days old. But that is mainly because I don't have a great set-up, like a nice stall for the doe and new kids to be in for a week or two. I would let them out for a few hours each day though, until the buckling is a little older (maybe 2-3 weeks old?).


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## thailand (Feb 22, 2017)

Urgent help needed please!  Just noticed the new baby has rattly breathing.  He is fine in every other way - eating really well and often, peeing, pooping, jumping around like a lunatic.  I have realized I've made two very stupid mistakes in his care   

Mistake no. 1 - I decided it would be a good idea to put linoleum down on the wooden slat floor of his birthing pen because unfortunately the wooden slats are two far apart and I was worried his feet/legs would get trapped.  I had hay down over top of this.  This was the situation for the first 1 1/2 days until I realized what a dumb idea it was cause the pee had nowhere to go and was pooling on the lino under the hay.

Mistake no 2 = fixed the above problem and totally removed the linoleum.  Put tons of hay down and inserted stripped tree branches in the gaps between the floor boards to close up the gaps.  Also put down some hard plastic slatted 'jigsaw' livestock panels (don't know what this is called).  This has worked very well so far, however, this is where I slipped up next.....I put a towel down on the hay in one corner for him to lie on.  He seemed to love this idea.

But, this morning I've noticed the towel is very wet with urine and he's clearly still been lying on it.

Help please - what if any medication can/should I give him.  He's only 3 days old today.  I've had him outside in the sun for a bit today and as I said above, other that a wheezy rattle he seems absolutely fine.  I am aware though that kids can go downhill very fast and so I'm hoping for some urgent advice please.  (There are no goat vets here that I'm aware of/have been able to find....so it's up to us guys).  Thanks


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## babsbag (Feb 23, 2017)

I don't believe that the flooring or the towel had much to do with this so don't beat yourself up. It is good that you corrected it though. 

You need to take his temp for starters.  Can you get antibiotics? I use Duramycin which is Oxytetracycline.  Other choices are from a vet...Nuflor. If nothing else you can try Penicillin.   If you give Pen you need to pull back on the plunger and check for blood before you inject. It you get it in a vein you can kill them.


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## thailand (Feb 23, 2017)

Thanks enormously Babs for your quick advice.  So you think maybe he has aspirated during birth or in drinking milk then?

While we don't have goat vets here we do have excellent animal medicine stores.  They have a huge range (not everything you can get in the States, nor me in New Zealand) and there is no need for a vet's prescription.  I happen to have Oxytetracycline on hand, but it says it is for cattle, horses, dogs and swine.  No mention of goats.  Would this likely be ok?  It is ocytetracycline  HCI equivalent to oxytetracycline 50 mg, and lidocaine hydrochloride 20mg.

I'm rather loathe to inject him as I've never had to inject a goat yet.  Are any of your choices above given orally?


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## babsbag (Feb 23, 2017)

The ocytetracycline HCI that I have seen is a powder that is mixed with water. Do you have a powder or a liquid?  The dose for the injectable is 5 to 10mg/kg repeated every 24 hours for a period of 3 days. And I think that yours is 50 mg per ML so that is a pretty small dose, something like .2ML /kg. 

He could have aspirated during birth or drinking milk. I would check the roof of his mouth just to rule out a cleft palate. You can feel for it or better yet get a light and look.  Also, does he sound like this  all of the time or only after he eats?

I don't know what your weather is right now but baby goats don't handle temperature fluctuations very well. Warm days and cold nights are rough on them, but maybe you never get cold nights.


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## thailand (Feb 23, 2017)

Thanks again Babs.  The Oxy I have is injectable, but maybe I can get the powder or liquid.  I'll have to go look tomorrow.  Will check the roof of his mouth and report back.  No he doesn't sound like this all the time, really just when I pick him up if that makes any sense.  Almost as is I'm squashing him and causing him to be rattly.  He's just had some playtime out in the sunshine in our food forest.  Seriously cute....runs up to me when I call his name (Taji) and snuggles into my lap and falls asleep.  Khaleesi is getting a little jealous LOL.  I'm careful to not cause problems for her though.

The temperatures are crazy here at the moment....cold enough for us to still be using a duvet (quilt) in the early mornings and then 95 degrees in the afternoon.


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## babsbag (Feb 23, 2017)

Yeah, those kind of temps can make it hard on them. 

Injectables aren't that hard. They work fast and you know how much you got in him as opposed to him 'wearing' it all when trying to get it in his mouth. Look on youTube for directions for giving a goat shots. Who does the vaccines?


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## Mini Horses (Feb 23, 2017)

You can give the oxy sub-Q so, while you still need to check for blood "in case" the chances of hitting a vein a lessened a lot.  I'd give him so today rather than wait for going to look for powder.  IF he has aspirated and pneumonia is possible, he needs help sooner than later.  Sunshine and running around will help.

As to the wet towel, well -- when a baby goat needs to pee, they stand and go!      No thought for where they are...just go.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 23, 2017)

Before you start loading the kid up on antibiotics, take the temp first.


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## Mini Horses (Feb 23, 2017)

babsbag said:


> You need to take his temp for starters.



Yes, yes, yes......first thing to do.


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## babsbag (Feb 23, 2017)

While I always take the temp there are pneumonias that don't run a temp or spike one when you aren't looking, and the next thing you know they are dead or dying. I will go by how the kid sounds before I go by the temperature, especially if there are no vets.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 23, 2017)

I'm saying that as a reminder. 
So many newbs come to forums like this and  members recommend antibiotics. 
They say to take a temp but that goes by the way side. 

Whenever you think you have an ill goat- you should take their temp. 

I agree, there are times that you learn to go with your gut. But you and I both have more years of experience than the poster. 

I think some good advice has been given, but the temperature should not be forgotten. The OP still needs to learn how to evaluate and troubleshoot.  and that should always start with a temp. 

We tell people if you have a sick goat- don't call until you have taken its temperature.


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## Mini Horses (Feb 23, 2017)

First, how is the goat kid doing????  

Then, in general,  it's great for all who read these threads because of the things that come up often, they "bank" info.
It's important to learn things you should look for in an animals "normal" that can trigger you to suspect illness....for instance, when a horse is laying & gets up, they generally stretch before moving on.  If they get up, don't stretch, then just stand -- check on them.  Most will get up if you approach when they are laying, if not...check them.  Kicking at stomach...check them.

If you call your vet for help, they will want to know temps, runny eyes, nose, color of discharges, any smells,  fecal status, activity level, breathing, sounds (gut & lungs) and so on, and so on.   It's always best if we can have most of that information and observations ready to help them help us.   These things are why some replies for help inquiries have these questions asked before a suggestion is made.    

Goat whisperer, you are correct -- many of our herd are newbies to some of their animal types and individual animals, also.  It is very important for us to reinforce some of the things we have had to learn (and relearn!) but, they might not know or remember to do .... especially when in overdrive emotions over a sick animal.   Been there, right??  

And yes, Babsbag, I have also treated a "suspect" when the situation is one where I feel the risk of a dose of meds is better than the downgrade that can happen in 12 hrs.   It's a judgment call  that sometimes we make.   Most of us are not vets but, in many cases have more experience with some issues for goats than many vets.


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## babsbag (Feb 23, 2017)

babsbag said:


> You need to take his temp for starters.



It was in my very first post on this thread.


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## thailand (Feb 24, 2017)

Thanks everyone.  I ended up taking Taji (buckling) to the vet to have his temperature taken and to listen to his lungs for congestion.  He had a temperature of 103.8 and she could hear congestion on his lungs.  So, he was given Tolfenic acid and Enrofloxacin IM.  I was weary of what medication they might want to give him (being that they are not goat vets) and she kindly obliged by phoning the local livestock officer who confirmed that these medications were ok for baby goats.  Can someone here please confirm this for me.  And, his temp of 103.8, is that high for a baby goat?

I've been keeping a close eye on him over the last 2-3 hours and he seems absolutely fine, running around like a lunatic and feeding alot.

Thanks everyone for your great timely advice.  I feel much happier now he's been seen to.

Babs -   I haven't had to inject a goat yet....and I haven't vaccinated any of them .  Basically just too scared to do it myself. (Just being honest).

As for Aaliyah - yesterday she didn't have any goo at all, but it has returned today.  Not much at all just a drop.  But, the good news is her ligs are soft and almost gone.  The family are planning on going out tomorrow afternoon to a local Ag Fair.  I want to go....but......she'll likely decide to give birth then right!  Being a FF I'd like to try to ensure I'm there for her when the time comes.

Well, that's all the news for today friends.  I must post some more photos of Taji.  Maybe tomorrow afternoon when he's running around outside I'll take some and post here.


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## thailand (Feb 24, 2017)

Oh, forgot to add:  the vet said just the one time dose of enrofloxacin and Tolfenic.  No need to return unless he suddenly takes a turn for the worse.  Does that sound right?


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 24, 2017)

Mini Horses said:


> Goat whisperer, you are correct -- many of our herd are newbies to some of their animal types and individual animals, also. It is very important for us to reinforce some of the things we have had to learn (and relearn!) but, they might not know or remember to do .... especially when in overdrive emotions over a sick animal. Been there, right??


Hence my reason for reminding the OP to take the temperature. Yes, Babs, I saw that you posted that prior  I'm just reinforcing that because I see people take the "easy" way and don't take the temperature. If the kid had a 107 temp, you'd sure as heck want to take the temp every few hours after the meds are given and track it until the goat gets better.

But, having been on this forum for a long while now, I've seen it time and time again where although mentioned, the temperature never gets taken and jump right to antibiotics.

And yes, I've given antibiotics to goats without a temperature. I follow my gut and the data 


Now I thought they had no goat vets in Thailand???

Idk. I've worked closely with my vets and maybe that's why I'm OCD over it. Same way I dislike it when  people just using google to find goat medical information


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## babsbag (Feb 24, 2017)

Glad the he got some meds and seems to be doing well. 

@Goat Whisperer  She didn't go to a goat vet. Thankfully they were still willing to help.  What is the roll of the livestock officer?

103.8 is not super high, but high enough. Normal is 101-102.x , sometimes 103 if they have been out in the sun on a hot day.  Enrofloxacin is trade name Baytril and is great for pneumonia in goats. Unfortunately for the USA we are no longer allowed to use it in food producing animals due to antibiotic residue in animals and it being an important human antibiotic they are trying to avoid antibiotic resistance. 

I had to look up Tolfenamic acid. It is a NSAID to reduce fever so should be fine. It is not available in the US.

You need to get a digital thermometer and label it GOAT so you can take the temp, it is a very important tool to have. And as far as the vaccines, they are important. Can you even get CDT vaccines over there?  You need to get brave, I can't imagine owning livestock and not doing my own injections. I have even vaccinated chickens, that was more frightening than the goats.


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## thailand (Mar 16, 2017)

Hey everyone just thought I should give an update.  Aaliyah had twin doelings!  Both perfect.    One is pure white and the other is black/brown.


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## luvmypets (Mar 16, 2017)

Yay!


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## animalmom (Mar 16, 2017)

Pictures, woman!  Where are the pictures?  We need an update on Khaleesi too, please and thank you.


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## thailand (Mar 16, 2017)

LOL.  I just love you guys!  This is such a friendly forum.    Ok, it's almost midnight here now.  Will try to post photos over the next couple of days.  

I am almost at the end of a three day conference, but then we will be travelling 10 hours into the mountains and back on Saturday, taking one of our kids to a funeral for his grandfather, and two of our girls to another village to visit their grandmother and brother.  Gonna be tired after this lot for sure.

Will get onto photos asap.


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## Goatgirl47 (Mar 16, 2017)

Congratulations on the doelings!  Can't wait for pictures!


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## samssimonsays (Mar 16, 2017)

congrats on the does!


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## TAH (Mar 16, 2017)




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## Latestarter (Mar 16, 2017)

Congrats on the new additions! Twin doelings is awesome! And your herd continues to grow   Be safe on your trip and I personally will accept that as a reason for a lack of pictures, but will still be  waiting


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## BlessedWithGoats (Mar 16, 2017)

thailand said:


> taking one of our kids to a funeral for his grandfather


Sorry  


Congratulations on the doelings!


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## thailand (Mar 17, 2017)

Home from our conference and decided not to make the trip into the mountains tomorrow after all. Just too tired!  Instead will maybe go next weekend.

So - this means photos!  

Yeah, our herd grows.....but not for long.  I will be selling these two doelings.  The breeding is brother to sister (Jabari to Aaliyah), so it's not gonna work for me to keep them sadly.  Funny story for you guys......I didn't have a bred date for Aaliyah.  I'd been checking her constantly, and this particular day I checked on her before I went to feed the chickens that morning.  I was looking for ANY signs of impending labour.  Looking for goop, arching of her tail, anything.  There was totally nothing at all.  I went away to feed the chickens and came back about 30 minutes later.  Got the shock of my life to see two very mucky, wet, newly born baby girls!  LOL.....and here I was worried Aaliyah might need ME since she was a FF! 

Here they are.  I've named them Blossom (the white doeling) and Gypsy (the black/brown doeling).


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## luvmypets (Mar 17, 2017)

Super cute! Congrats!!


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## dejavoodoo114 (Mar 17, 2017)

Love them!


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## thailand (Mar 17, 2017)

Want one??  LOL.....a wee bit far to transport I think.  Hey guys, I'm having some difficulty trying to get both little families to mix well together.  Khaleesi & little Taji, and Aaliyah and these two baby girls.  The kids are fine together.....it's the mothers that are the problem.  They are mother and daughter themselves of course, but they are now head butting each other or the other's kids!!  I'm having to put them outside taking turns.  It's ridiculous.  Is there a trick to this??


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## Jenn27 (Mar 17, 2017)

Congrats on the cute kids!!


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