# Ideas on fence corners anyone?



## soarwitheagles

Hi everyone!

We have been installing fence for sheep.  We have many, many corners on the fence lines.  I tried a couple of different approaches.  Some are easier than others.  Some require more than double the installation time.

Asking for advice and ideas.  

Thank you,

Soar


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## samssimonsays

View attachment 16155 View attachment 16156[/QUOTE]
I am all for the last option.


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## Baymule

I just posted a ton of pictures on a tutorial on fencing. Hope it helps answer your questions. Your picture #1,2 and #3 looks doomed to fail. You would do better to do these over now rather than wait for the corner to fail and stock to escape. Picture #4 you have the right idea, but unless those are GROUND CONTACT 4x4's they will rot in a few short years. Picture #5 is the best one out of the bunch. It takes time, hard work and more hard work. But when done right, it gives peace of mind and you get to do routine maintentance rather than emergency catch 'em and patch the hole.

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/non-climb-2-x4-horse-wire-fence.32922/page-2


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## Bossroo

Ditto to Baymule's post.   The orners that you put in are  not the best way to go  for long term use. You need to put in much heavier posts that are pressure treated  ,  " H " crossbraced  at eah corner and tied together with heavy wire that you can tighten. Your current corners   are an accident waiting to happen either to you and/ or the animals.   Also, the fencing that you chose is very easy for the sheep to put their heads through in an attempt to eat grass on the other side and stretch the  fence wires. Also, potencially the sheep can get their head stuck / panick then hurt themselves. I know , I know ... more work for you ,but well worth it to do it now then do it later with much more sweat and labor.


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## Baymule

Good eye Bossroo, I didn't notice the field fencing.  I have used it before and I hate the stuff. It was a huge mistake on my part to use it to fence a previous property we owned.  It breaks, stretches, and is total crap.  I got suckered in by the cheaper price and thought I was doing great because of the smaller holes on the bottom. I just _knew_ it was perfect for keeping dogs out. It didn't. Not even big dogs. Big dogs could actually squeeze and wriggle in those squares until the wires slid apart. My horses stuck their hooves in it and pawed it to pieces and totally walked it down to the ground. Cows were even worse on it.

@soarwitheagles reading back over my posts, it sure sounds like I'm beating up on you. Please don't take it that way, I have made all these mistakes and lived to regret them. It made much, much more work for me in the long run.


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## soarwitheagles

Thank you everyone for excellent input and advice.  Well, I will install the extra 6 inch poles in the "H" version for each corner, remembering to also install the diagonal wires for lateral bracing.  Darn, cutting corners never seems to work...esp. when working with fencing!

I haven't the resources/funding at this time to use the 2"x4" no climb fencing for the entire 2000ft. run [it is nearly double the cost of the woven wire].  When I did the initial take off for this fence job, I immediately realized to use the best materials [no climb fencing] was far above our present budget.  I had to make due with what we had. For now, the woven wire is working well...no sheep caught up in it, no shifting of the wires, etc.  I did use the no-climb wire for the 100'x100' sheep pen as an added precaution against coyotes.  So far, no problems.

We do have an entire pallet of the 6" x 10' posts...so I have no excuse for not using those.  Back to the drawing board and I realize now I should have asked more questions before starting this project.

Will keep you updated as to the progress!


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## secuono

You all will hate my corner and in-line posts then....
Have a few, slightly different than pictured, for a field fence I put up last year. And just put up 7 for a tight hot fence. 
Works for me, but not under the much higher forces that professionally installed fences are on.


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## Baymule

Soar, those 4x4's you used for a corner can be used for the middle brace in "H" braces or corner braces. They just aren't any good for ground contact. I am a master of making do with what I have, so I totally get you there. You just have to do what you can do sometimes. Just keep an eye on the field fencing so you don't get any problems.


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## Baymule

secuono said:


> You all will hate my corner and in-line posts then....
> Have a few, slightly different than pictured, for a field fence I put up last year. And just put up 7 for a tight hot fence.
> Works for me, but not under the much higher forces that professionally installed fences are on.
> View attachment 16172


Girl, I have seen you do things with just a little bit of something. You know what works for you!


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## secuono

Baymule said:


> Girl, I have seen you do things with just a little bit of something. You know what works for you!



There's so much hope and wishing, with a touch of luck, that is keeping it all glued together! hahaha


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## soarwitheagles

Samantha drawz said:


> View attachment 16155 View attachment 16156


I am all for the last option.[/QUOTE]

Yes, me too!  But it took 5 times longer than the easier method and I did not have the time to build all corners with the H post method.  



Baymule said:


> I just posted a ton of pictures on a tutorial on fencing. Hope it helps answer your questions. Your picture #1,2 and #3 looks doomed to fail. You would do better to do these over now rather than wait for the corner to fail and stock to escape. Picture #4 you have the right idea, but unless those are GROUND CONTACT 4x4's they will rot in a few short years. Picture #5 is the best one out of the bunch. It takes time, hard work and more hard work. But when done right, it gives peace of mind and you get to do routine maintentance rather than emergency catch 'em and patch the hole.
> 
> http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/non-climb-2-x4-horse-wire-fence.32922/page-2



Baymule, after looking at your awesome fence job, I went looking for a fence post hole to crawl into!

Wow, you sure know how to do it right and strong and that is the way fences should be built!



Bossroo said:


> Ditto to Baymule's post.   The orners that you put in are  not the best way to go  for long term use. You need to put in much heavier posts that are pressure treated  ,  " H " crossbraced  at eah corner and tied together with heavy wire that you can tighten. Your current corners   are an accident waiting to happen either to you and/ or the animals.   Also, the fencing that you chose is very easy for the sheep to put their heads through in an attempt to eat grass on the other side and stretch the  fence wires. Also, potencially the sheep can get their head stuck / panick then hurt themselves. I know , I know ... more work for you ,but well worth it to do it now then do it later with much more sweat and labor.



Thanks for sharing your insights.  I simply did not have the time or funding to install the fence the heavy duty way.  I will spray with the glysophate  so the sheep's temptation put their heads through for greener pastures will not be so great!



Baymule said:


> Good eye Bossroo, I didn't notice the field fencing.  I have used it before and I hate the stuff. It was a huge mistake on my part to use it to fence a previous property we owned.  It breaks, stretches, and is total crap.  I got suckered in by the cheaper price and thought I was doing great because of the smaller holes on the bottom. I just _knew_ it was perfect for keeping dogs out. It didn't. Not even big dogs. Big dogs could actually squeeze and wriggle in those squares until the wires slid apart. My horses stuck their hooves in it and pawed it to pieces and totally walked it down to the ground. Cows were even worse on it.
> 
> @soarwitheagles reading back over my posts, it sure sounds like I'm beating up on you. Please don't take it that way, I have made all these mistakes and lived to regret them. It made much, much more work for me in the long run.



Bay,

I am not taking your post the wrong way.  I am learning.  As mentioned before, we did not have the time or resources to complete the fence the heavy duty method at this time.  I will probably simply install the H fencing using the 10 ft. x 6 inch dia. posts in the future.



secuono said:


> You all will hate my corner and in-line posts then....
> Have a few, slightly different than pictured, for a field fence I put up last year. And just put up 7 for a tight hot fence.
> Works for me, but not under the much higher forces that professionally installed fences are on.
> View attachment 16172



Nice job secuono!  Hope it works well for you!



Baymule said:


> Soar, those 4x4's you used for a corner can be used for the middle brace in "H" braces or corner braces. They just aren't any good for ground contact. I am a master of making do with what I have, so I totally get you there. You just have to do what you can do sometimes. Just keep an eye on the field fencing so you don't get any problems.



Thank you Baymule.  The 4x4's are all pressure treated, so I am hoping they will work for at least a few years.

My only wish is that I had more time and more resources.  But I did not.  The pasture with incredible grass, clover, legumes, etc. is now nearly 18" high in some areas.  I needed to finish this quick and get the sheep out there!


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## babsbag

We used a T post kit that we got at tractor supply.  

http://www.wedgeloc.com/

 Our ground is undiggable and rocky and there was no way I was digging the holes. I literally had to use a drill with a 1" spade bit for one post. After that I gave up. We couldn't get a tractor where we needed holes and no money to rent an auger and it probably would have broken my wrist.  The kit works well, it has been 8 years and still holding strong. We even stretched fence from it and when I stretch fence I REALLY stretch it. I use a come-along. 

To keep my goats from using my fence as a back scratcher I have a row of hot wire at goat knee height.


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## soarwitheagles

babsbag said:


> We used a T post kit that we got at tractor supply.
> 
> http://www.wedgeloc.com/
> 
> Our ground is undiggable and rocky and there was no way I was digging the holes. I literally had to use a drill with a 1" spade bit for one post. After that I gave up. We couldn't get a tractor where we needed holes and no money to rent an auger and it probably would have broken my wrist.  The kit works well, it has been 8 years and still holding strong. We even stretched fence from it and when I stretch fence I REALLY stretch it. I use a come-along.
> 
> To keep my goats from using my fence as a back scratcher I have a row of hot wire at goat knee height.



Thanks for posting babsbag!

Yes, I saw those wedgelocs at TS and they are actually 50% off at the moment!  Previous owners used them here too and there are several still in use.

So sorry to hear about your hardened ground!  Wow, sounds as if you may need some dynamite!

Here, the ground is finally soft as butter after some super saturation rains.  So post hole digger works like a charm.

I have a tractor with 16 attachments...8 of which are various size augers...problem is...ground so soft, I would not dare drive it out on pasture.

Later in the year, I would like to hook up the auger and drill the holes for all the "H" corners, then build the "H" corners, removing my el cheapo versions of the corners.  Yes, it will be more work, but now I am happy because no more need to feed the sheep [it was becoming so expensive]...they are devouring grass, clovers, furbs, chickory, and trefoil and best of all it is all free!  Did you know one of our good friends and fellow ranchers is spending $25-$50 per day to feed his sheep hay?  We are not in the position to spend that much to feed our flock.

Another best of all, this is the happiest I have ever seen our sheep!  Now they run and frolick, roll in the grass, and are overall super happy.  I have never seen them this way ever before.  I think my feeding the hay and grain wasn't their idea of the high life.

I think I am learning that the better you feed your sheep, the happier they will be and these sheep appear to love the pasture.  I also believe they will be much healthier too.

So that is all for now.

Soar


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## babsbag

My goats are out browsing this time of year and they love it, they do look so happy. Only for a month though unless we get more rain...soon all will be brown. 

We live on the top of a hill and I think we grow rocks...no, that isn't right...I KNOW we grow rocks.    Our tractor does not have down pressure for the auger and it is useless more often than not.


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## soarwitheagles

babsbag said:


> My goats are out browsing this time of year and they love it, they do look so happy. Only for a month though unless we get more rain...soon all will be brown.
> 
> We live on the top of a hill and I think we grow rocks...no, that isn't right...I KNOW we grow rocks.    Our tractor does not have down pressure for the auger and it is useless more often than not.



Anderson is up near Redding yes?  I did not know there was so much rock in the soil there...then again, I suppose there can be rock anywhere depending upon the property.  Well at least you have a nice view, living at the top of a hill!

My next project will be to install some form of irrigation so we can have at least an acre or two of green pasture during the summer months.  I am hoping it the power costs for the well pump will not be too expensive.  I am considering using a propane generator to power the well while irrigating.

Have a wonderful day Bagsbad!


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## babsbag

I would think about solar for the pump and maybe get a tank that you can fill slowly if needed and then irrigate out of the tank. Just a thought. I think the solar pumps have gotten cheaper over the years. Our well is 300' deep so 8 years ago solar was out of the question; there were no pumps that would do that depth and give the volume I needed for a home, but I could do it now. But instead we put solar on the house and will be doing more. I irrigate at night when power is cheaper. 

Irrigated pasture is a dream of mine but goats want trees more than grass so it is a little trickier. 

We are near Redding and certain places are rocky. There is a seasonal stream at the bottom of our hill and lots of rocks there, but we aren't the only place. Unless you are in the bottom land near the Sacramento  river or some of the creeks, rocks prevail. The funny thing is that when we lived in Fairfield I use to pay for the rocks for landscaping and while I still use them for landscaping I pretty much curse them more often than not. They are river rocks about softball size but if I go down to the stream bed I can get football size and bigger. I should take them to the Bay Area and sell them.


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## OneFineAcre

This is how I did mine


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## Baymule

soarwitheagles said:


> Baymule, after looking at your awesome fence job, I went looking for a fence post hole to crawl into!
> 
> Wow, you sure know how to do it right and strong and that is the way fences should be built!




Soar, sure wasn't trying to make you feel bad and don't go crawling off in a fence post hole! I have made lots of fencing mistakes,  lots of screw ups,  and paid dearly for them. I am glad you liked my fencing thread and hope it helps. The only reason I know how to do it right is because I did it so wrong, wrong, wrong.


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## babsbag

Oh to be fencing level land; @OneFineAcre that is a very nice fence.


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## Pamela

We use railroad ties, buried 3-4 feet deep at corners. No need for bracing.


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## greybeard

Pamela said:


> We use railroad ties, buried 3-4 feet deep at corners. No need for bracing.


I've used them for years, but without bracing, after 10-20 years, they will lean, if the fence is stretched anywhere close to tight. I'm 65 and have built miles of fences since 1965 and have never had a corner or end of fence post fail or lean. This is the way I used to do all of them and still do-- in a gate opening.
Since this is a gate opening, I brace wired it in both directions--one to keep the wire tight-one in the opposite direction to keep the gate from ever sagging. I used cable on this one, but probably overkill--I just happened to have several hundred feet of it extra.






On the other side of the gate, I would just do something different nowadays, and save myself some $ and work. Read below:
Another option for the thread starter, unless you just really like digging 2 extra holes and buying 2 big  posts that you don't really need, is what is known as a Floating Brace arraignment.
In you first picture, your diagonal braces are fastened too high on the vertical post--angled too much and offer no real leverage to hold the post straight and plumb, and in fact, if you aren't carefull, can force the vertical post up out of the ground.
For a single corner using the floating brace method, you will need:
One 6"-8" diameter post 6-8' long. (this is 2/3rd less than the # of big posts needed in a normal double H pattern corner and of course 2/3 less cost of the traditional double H post corner)
Two 3-4" diameter posts 6-8' long.(this is the same # of braces needed in an H post corner)
two  $3 spring clip wire strainers--readily available at most stores such as Tractor Supply.
2 flat rocks or flat pieces of concrete, like a 12"x12"x2" paving stone.
a couple of large nails.
a couple of pieces of HT wire.
One hole in the ground.
A saw of some kind to cut an angle on each end of the 3"-4" posts.

They make different types of spring clip wire strainers, but this is what I use:






What is a floating brace corner? I'll show you two different pics and explain the difference:
This is the first one I ever built at the end of a long run and to be honest, it is done incorrectly. It still works but I really should re do it. The diagonal is placed too high on the vertical post. If the vertical post were not set in concrete, the diagonal would tend to force the vertical post up out of the ground when I tightened down on the ratchet of the strainer.




Two views of a correctly done floating brace corner. The fence goes in one direction about 300 yards and in the other direction about 400 yards, and the wires are banjo string tight. This type corner works for elec HT wire, barbed wire, and any type net fence, welded, woven or knotted.








In the above photos, you can see the angles cut on the diagonal brace posts. You can also see where the wire and strainers go. The strainers are a little higher than need be, but I don't worry about aesthetics too much in open pasture.
First, set your corner post, however you normally would. I tend to plant em 36" deep, a little dry concrete in the bottom six inches, and the rest filled with native soil that came from the hole. Your option--I won't argue the best way to set a post. Just make sure it is straight in all directions.

On the post, just make a loop with your brace wire, threading it thru the end of the strainer, and tie it off--western union splice knot works fine or if you use the crimp ferrules, one will hold just fine. Place your diagonal post against the vertical post about 1/2 way between ground and the top of the post.
Place the ground end of the diagonal ON the ground to mark the angles. Place your 'rock' next to the ground end of the diagonal. Make a mark on the bottom of diagonal post along the top edge of your 'rock', indicating the angle. Mark the corresponding angle where the vertical and diagonal post meet. Take the diagonal down, and Cut your angles. Now, place the 'rock' where it will forever be, in line with where the wire will run. Again position your diagonal brace post against the vertical post and on the rock. At this point, drive a big nail into the angle at the top of the diagonal to hold it firmly against the vertical post--a BIG nail. (some people will cut a notch in the vertical post for a perch for the diagonal to sit in--I do not.)

On the ground end of the diagonal post, take a length of wire long enough to loop around the bottom of the diagonal post, and still long enough for the other end of the wire to thread thru the hole in the wire strainer's ratchet spool. Loop one end of said wire around the post and tie back to the opposite side of the post. Dive a fence staple (or 2) to hold that loop at the bottom part of the diagonal post. Run the other end of the wire thru the spool of the strainer. It only needs to protrude thru the spool about 1" but leave enough slack between the diagonal post and the wire strainer to take a couple of turns with the strainer.  Start tightening up the strainer until all the lack is out of the brace wire but not so tight you move the post.

Go to the other side of the post and do all the above for the opposite side of the corner.  When you have all the slack out of the 2nd brace wire, alternately tighten the strainers until both wires are tight. I usually tighten them till just before the breaking point 

After you have strung your fencing, any wire passing along side the diagonal post can be stapled to the diagonal. It will prevent an animal or wild tractor driver from accidentally kickin the end of the diagonal off the 'rock'.

If you have goats, DO place the diagonal on the outside of their pen--they may try to climb the diagonal post if you do not. I raise full size brahma influenced cattle (Beefmasters) so i don't worry about climbing. I've used the above type corners for years now, and the savings on the corner pictured is $15 each for the two big post I didn't need plus the time and labor digging holes for them. My instructions may sound like a lot of work, but believe me it is not hard at all, especially compared to a conventional double H post corner, and it is certainly faster than the conventional corner. The only people who say these won't work are those who have never tried them.  If you wonder what kind of ground I have, it changes from hard as a hooker's heart in summer to soft as an angel's turd the rest of the year. you can get an idea how soft it gets around here by looking in my 'river thread' in the Random Ramblings section.

At the bottom of this webpage is some more on floating braces--some people call this a Kiwi Brace.
http://fyi.uwex.edu/grazres/files/2012/01/bracing.pdf

Another picture from someone I know via internet, tho we both agree the diagonal is probably too high--applies more 'upward' pressure than horizontal pressure.


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## Mike CHS

babsbag said:


> We used a T post kit that we got at tractor supply.
> 
> http://www.wedgeloc.com/
> 
> Our ground is undiggable and rocky and there was no way I was digging the holes. I literally had to use a drill with a 1" spade bit for one post. After that I gave up. We couldn't get a tractor where we needed holes and no money to rent an auger and it probably would have broken my wrist.  The kit works well, it has been 8 years and still holding strong. We even stretched fence from it and when I stretch fence I REALLY stretch it. I use a come-along.
> 
> To keep my goats from using my fence as a back scratcher I have a row of hot wire at goat knee height.


 
I'm late posting in this thread but I wanted to get some more info on how you implemented those gadgets since it sound like your fields are similar to mine.

 I'm really glad to see someone that I "know"  post about those things.  I spent quite a bit of time reading about them last year for the same reason you used them and blew them off because I couldn't confirm what I was reading.  My bottom land is easy to work but all of my upper sections has to be thread through areas of limestone so now I might give these some more thinking.


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## Baymule

Great post @greybeard. That was very informative and the pictures illustrated your description so well. Maybe @soarwitheagles , this might be a better option for you and save you money.


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## Ferguson K

Those floating braces are what we use I  all of our gates. They work great if done correctly.


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## babsbag

@Mike CHS I will try and get a picture tomorrow. Our ground is hard, uneven, and in some places impossible to get a tractor to the corner even if you  do have one that can dig in my dirt. (I don't ). Once you have the pieces in hand they will make sense.


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## Mike CHS

@babsbag I have seen how they work but wasn't sure how well they worked. We are going to buy an auger but that won't work on our rocks in a fairly big area of steep slopes even if I got brave enough (or silly enough) to try to get the tractor in there.

  I went by TSC yesterday to get a few pieces to experiment with and had a pleasant surprise.  They had all of the various pieces marked on clearance for 99 cents each so I grabbed enough to do 4 corners I want to experiment with.  When I got to the checkout the clerk took all of the pieces and put them on a weight scale then range them up for $2.19 a pound.  Those pieces came in at just under 1/2 pound and a little over $1.00.  I had him give me a bag and immedieately went back and filled it up.  Roughly 50 or more pieces (marked 99 cents each) weighed in at a little over 3 pounds and cost less than $7.

I want to set up a temporary paddock next month to put some wethers in and this will make it easier to change the layout if we need to.


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## Mike CHS

Greybeard - I have read several articles about that type of fence setup but never quite get my little pea brain around it.  You write-up is excellent and makes it look a lot more convenient to install.


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## chiques chicks

As I am still learning and have a lot of fencing to do, I want to thank everyone here for all the great information and pictures they are posting!

Just sitting back studying these threads is so helpful. Lots of information to take in and a lot of work ahead of me.

Your taking the time to help others certainly benefits more than the original poster.

Thank you.


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## greybeard

Ferguson K said:


> Those floating braces are what we use I  all of our gates. They work great if done correctly.


They can, but remember, the single floating brace only hold strain in one direction. If you use them at a gate, the hinge  post of the gate is only held straight up and down and weight of the gate is offset only by the tightness of the wire--the  floating brace's diagonal  will be pushing toward the gate. 

I have with success, also used a floating brace setup to straighten up an existing post. Instal it, tighten up on the strainer, then a couple weeks later, especially after a soaking rain, return and take a couple more clicks on the ratchet of the strainer spool. 
(I forgot to include the strainer tool in the list of materials, tho I have also just tightened them with a crescent wrench as long as the strainer has a square on one end--some are round on both ends and will require the tool below--about $7 but will last forever.)


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## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> I'm late posting in this thread but I wanted to get some more info on how you implemented those gadgets since it sound like your fields are similar to mine.
> 
> I'm really glad to see someone that I "know"  post about those things.  I spent quite a bit of time reading about them last year for the same reason you used them and blew them off because I couldn't confirm what I was reading.  My bottom land is easy to work but all of my upper sections has to be thread through areas of limestone so now I might give these some more thinking.



This whole thing should be right down your alley Mike. After all, you live in............Cornersville.
(yeah, I know..I'm leaving now...


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## babsbag

@Mike CHS  The corners have been there for 8 years with no problems and when we installed them we were able to stretch the fence off of it. We did pound the corner one in about a foot deeper than the others. Our soil is very rocky, and not just big rocks, just very loose soil so posts don't stay in very well unless they are deep. 

But I don't have animals rubbing on the either, I use hot wire to keep the goats and dogs off of the fences.

Sounds like you got a really good buy on those pieces.


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## Mike CHS

greybeard said:


> This whole thing should be right down your alley Mike. After all, you live in............Cornersville.
> (yeah, I know..I'm leaving now...


 
I almost missed the "Cornersville" comment


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## soarwitheagles

greybeard said:


> I've used them for years, but without bracing, after 10-20 years, they will lean, if the fence is stretched anywhere close to tight. I'm 65 and have built miles of fences since 1965 and have never had a corner or end of fence post fail or lean. This is the way I used to do all of them and still do-- in a gate opening.
> Since this is a gate opening, I brace wired it in both directions--one to keep the wire tight-one in the opposite direction to keep the gate from ever sagging. I used cable on this one, but probably overkill--I just happened to have several hundred feet of it extra.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other side of the gate, I would just do something different nowadays, and save myself some $ and work. Read below:
> Another option for the thread starter, unless you just really like digging 2 extra holes and buying 2 big  posts that you don't really need, is what is known as a Floating Brace arraignment.
> In you first picture, your diagonal braces are fastened too high on the vertical post--angled too much and offer no real leverage to hold the post straight and plumb, and in fact, if you aren't carefull, can force the vertical post up out of the ground.
> For a single corner using the floating brace method, you will need:
> One 6"-8" diameter post 6-8' long. (this is 2/3rd less than the # of big posts needed in a normal double H pattern corner and of course 2/3 less cost of the traditional double H post corner)
> Two 3-4" diameter posts 6-8' long.(this is the same # of braces needed in an H post corner)
> two  $3 spring clip wire strainers--readily available at most stores such as Tractor Supply.
> 2 flat rocks or flat pieces of concrete, like a 12"x12"x2" paving stone.
> a couple of large nails.
> a couple of pieces of HT wire.
> One hole in the ground.
> A saw of some kind to cut an angle on each end of the 3"-4" posts.
> 
> They make different types of spring clip wire strainers, but this is what I use:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is a floating brace corner? I'll show you two different pics and explain the difference:
> This is the first one I ever built at the end of a long run and to be honest, it is done incorrectly. It still works but I really should re do it. The diagonal is placed too high on the vertical post. If the vertical post were not set in concrete, the diagonal would tend to force the vertical post up out of the ground when I tightened down on the ratchet of the strainer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two views of a correctly done floating brace corner. The fence goes in one direction about 300 yards and in the other direction about 400 yards, and the wires are banjo string tight. This type corner works for elec HT wire, barbed wire, and any type net fence, welded, woven or knotted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the above photos, you can see the angles cut on the diagonal brace posts. You can also see where the wire and strainers go. The strainers are a little higher than need be, but I don't worry about aesthetics too much in open pasture.
> First, set your corner post, however you normally would. I tend to plant em 36" deep, a little dry concrete in the bottom six inches, and the rest filled with native soil that came from the hole. Your option--I won't argue the best way to set a post. Just make sure it is straight in all directions.
> 
> On the post, just make a loop with your brace wire, threading it thru the end of the strainer, and tie it off--western union splice knot works fine or if you use the crimp ferrules, one will hold just fine. Place your diagonal post against the vertical post about 1/2 way between ground and the top of the post.
> Place the ground end of the diagonal ON the ground to mark the angles. Place your 'rock' next to the ground end of the diagonal. Make a mark on the bottom of diagonal post along the top edge of your 'rock', indicating the angle. Mark the corresponding angle where the vertical and diagonal post meet. Take the diagonal down, and Cut your angles. Now, place the 'rock' where it will forever be, in line with where the wire will run. Again position your diagonal brace post against the vertical post and on the rock. At this point, drive a big nail into the angle at the top of the diagonal to hold it firmly against the vertical post--a BIG nail. (some people will cut a notch in the vertical post for a perch for the diagonal to sit in--I do not.)
> 
> On the ground end of the diagonal post, take a length of wire long enough to loop around the bottom of the diagonal post, and still long enough for the other end of the wire to thread thru the hole in the wire strainer's ratchet spool. Loop one end of said wire around the post and tie back to the opposite side of the post. Dive a fence staple (or 2) to hold that loop at the bottom part of the diagonal post. Run the other end of the wire thru the spool of the strainer. It only needs to protrude thru the spool about 1" but leave enough slack between the diagonal post and the wire strainer to take a couple of turns with the strainer.  Start tightening up the strainer until all the lack is out of the brace wire but not so tight you move the post.
> 
> Go to the other side of the post and do all the above for the opposite side of the corner.  When you have all the slack out of the 2nd brace wire, alternately tighten the strainers until both wires are tight. I usually tighten them till just before the breaking point
> 
> After you have strung your fencing, any wire passing along side the diagonal post can be stapled to the diagonal. It will prevent an animal or wild tractor driver from accidentally kickin the end of the diagonal off the 'rock'.
> 
> If you have goats, DO place the diagonal on the outside of their pen--they may try to climb the diagonal post if you do not. I raise full size brahma influenced cattle (Beefmasters) so i don't worry about climbing. I've used the above type corners for years now, and the savings on the corner pictured is $15 each for the two big post I didn't need plus the time and labor digging holes for them. My instructions may sound like a lot of work, but believe me it is not hard at all, especially compared to a conventional double H post corner, and it is certainly faster than the conventional corner. The only people who say these won't work are those who have never tried them.  If you wonder what kind of ground I have, it changes from hard as a hooker's heart in summer to soft as an angel's turd the rest of the year. you can get an idea how soft it gets around here by looking in my 'river thread' in the Random Ramblings section.
> 
> At the bottom of this webpage is some more on floating braces--some people call this a Kiwi Brace.
> http://fyi.uwex.edu/grazres/files/2012/01/bracing.pdf
> 
> Another picture from someone I know via internet, tho we both agree the diagonal is probably too high--applies more 'upward' pressure than horizontal pressure.



Greybeard,

If only I had asked BEFORE I installed our corners!  Wow!  Absolutely amazing write up with supporting pictures!  Thank you so much for sharing.  It is obvious you are a master of building fences...decades of experience and literally miles of fencing...

I will redo all corners exactly as you have shared.  It really won't be all that much work...just wish I had asked much sooner.

Hope it is ok with you if I ask questions as I "remodel" all corners into the "Floating Brace" version.  It appears so simple, yet incredibly effective and also a big time and $$$ saver!



Baymule said:


> Great post @greybeard. That was very informative and the pictures illustrated your description so well. Maybe @soarwitheagles , this might be a better option for you and save you money.



Yes, I totally agree!  I am sold on this plan.



Mike CHS said:


> Greybeard - I have read several articles about that type of fence setup but never quite get my little pea brain around it.  You write-up is excellent and makes it look a lot more convenient to install.



Ditto!



chiques chicks said:


> As I am still learning and have a lot of fencing to do, I want to thank everyone here for all the great information and pictures they are posting!
> 
> Just sitting back studying these threads is so helpful. Lots of information to take in and a lot of work ahead of me.
> 
> Your taking the time to help others certainly benefits more than the original poster.
> 
> Thank you.



Double Ditto!



greybeard said:


> They can, but remember, the single floating brace only hold strain in one direction. If you use them at a gate, the hinge  post of the gate is only held straight up and down and weight of the gate is offset only by the tightness of the wire--the  floating brace's diagonal  will be pushing toward the gate.
> 
> I have with success, also used a floating brace setup to straighten up an existing post. Instal it, tighten up on the strainer, then a couple weeks later, especially after a soaking rain, return and take a couple more clicks on the ratchet of the strainer spool.
> (I forgot to include the strainer tool in the list of materials, tho I have also just tightened them with a crescent wrench as long as the strainer has a square on one end--some are round on both ends and will require the tool below--about $7 but will last forever.)



Thanks again for the clarity!  Does anyone know if TS still sells the spring clip wire strainers and strainer tool?

Thanks!


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## Latestarter

Anyplace that sells wire for fencing should carry those. I have seen them at TSC, so you should have no problem finding them.


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## soarwitheagles

Latestarter said:


> Anyplace that sells wire for fencing should carry those. I have seen them at TSC, so you should have no problem finding them.



Thank you Latestarter!


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## soarwitheagles

SPECIAL UPDATE:

MASSIVE THANKS TO GREYBEARD!!!

I carefully looked at his "floating fence brace" design, and thought I would give it a whirl...

I can only say "Wow!"

Super easy.  Super inexpensive.  Super effective.  Super fast installation.

That makes you Greybeard, Superman in my book!

Posting some pics...

Thanks again everyone for your help!

Soar


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## Latestarter

I'm not really 100% sure, but with the tension wire all the way at the bottom of the brace, it's going to make the brace where it attaches to the corner post push up on the post (help push it up out of the ground). If you lean a ladder against a wall and then push the bottom toward the wall, the bottom of the ladder will move in while the top moves higher. I "think/believe/am pretty sure" the tensioner wire should actually be about 1/3 to 1/2 way up the brace so it's pulling the top of the brace down (supporting the corner post) and also pulling the bottom of the brace in and down (onto the brick support) so it can't move away. 

But yeah, looks good, easy, fast, inexpensive, etc.


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## Baymule

Back up to page 3 @Latestarter . @greybeard shows the tension wire exactly the way @soarwitheagles  did his.

I probably do my braces all wrong with the tension brace wires. I more than likely angle them in the wrong "pulling" direction. So in the best interest of my fence design, I just cris-cross the darn things and that's probably wrong too. Oh well, it keeps the critters in.....

@soarwitheagles you have been busy!! Your fencing looks great! no matter which way you are supposed to cris-cross wires-or not cris-cross-or whatever......


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## soarwitheagles

Latestarter said:


> I'm not really 100% sure, but with the tension wire all the way at the bottom of the brace, it's going to make the brace where it attaches to the corner post push up on the post (help push it up out of the ground). If you lean a ladder against a wall and then push the bottom toward the wall, the bottom of the ladder will move in while the top moves higher. I "think/believe/am pretty sure" the tensioner wire should actually be about 1/3 to 1/2 way up the brace so it's pulling the top of the brace down (supporting the corner post) and also pulling the bottom of the brace in and down (onto the brick support) so it can't move away.
> 
> But yeah, looks good, easy, fast, inexpensive, etc.



LS, I thought greybeard mentioned 1/3 to 1/2.  I actually installed the brace exactly 3 ft. above the ground.  Woven wire is 4ft., 2-3 strands of soon to be installed barb wire will place the finished fence at 6-7 ft. So far, no upward pushing of the posts that we can find...



Baymule said:


> Back up to page 3 @Latestarter . @greybeard shows the tension wire exactly the way @soarwitheagles  did his.
> 
> I probably do my braces all wrong with the tension brace wires. I more than likely angle them in the wrong "pulling" direction. So in the best interest of my fence design, I just cris-cross the darn things and that's probably wrong too. Oh well, it keeps the critters in.....
> 
> @soarwitheagles you have been busy!! Your fencing looks great! no matter which way you are supposed to cris-cross wires-or not cris-cross-or whatever......



Bay, thank you for your words of encouragement...and yes, I did try to copy GB's design exactly.  It sure was much easier than the "H" design...my only regret is not doing all of them with the floating version...now I will re-do the others as soon as I find some time...

By the way, I use the cris-cros method in many different areas of life...yep, I cris-cros my fingers for better luck with sheep, fencing, bees, you name it, I cris-cros it!


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## Ferguson K




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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I'm not really 100% sure, but with the tension wire all the way at the bottom of the brace, it's going to make the brace where it attaches to the corner post push up on the post (help push it up out of the ground). If you lean a ladder against a wall and then push the bottom toward the wall, the bottom of the ladder will move in while the top moves higher. I "think/believe/am pretty sure" the tensioner wire should actually be about 1/3 to 1/2 way up the brace so it's pulling the top of the brace down (supporting the corner post) and also pulling the bottom of the brace in and down (onto the brick support) so it can't move away.
> 
> But yeah, looks good, easy, fast, inexpensive, etc.



If done /\ that way, the tensioner will either break the diagonal brace post or cause it to severely bow down in the middle in very short order, as well as pulling the fastener out of the top of the diagonal post. 
Soarwitheagles has done it 100% correctly.


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## Latestarter

Awesome! Thanks all for the clarification.


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## Baymule

greybeard said:


> Soarwitheagles has done it 100% correctly.


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## Southern by choice

soarwitheagles said:


> I use the cris-cros method in many different areas of life...yep, I cris-cros my fingers for better luck with sheep, fencing, bees, you name it, I cris-cros it!


That should be your farm name! Cris- cros Farm!

@greybeard  thanks for posting some of the best well written info on this subject. Not sure if you have or not but this would be great "articles" material!


..and no I don't really have 3 thumbs but thought it was deserving of 3


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## Ponker

Here is how mine are built.


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## greybeard

That is also a very good method of construction--the time-honored H, with diagonal wire across the brace.
(if the fence to the left of the photo doesn't go very far, it's probably a bit of overkill)


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## soarwitheagles

Ponker,

Very, very nice fence corner job!  Beautiful!

Keep up the good job!


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## Goatchaser

secuono said:


> You all will hate my corner and in-line posts then....
> Have a few, slightly different than pictured, for a field fence I put up last year. And just put up 7 for a tight hot fence.
> Works for me, but not under the much higher forces that professionally installed fences are on.
> View attachment 16172


Wow that looks familiar!! In a pinch, and poor pte planning on my part, I did this same thing.... and it works GREAT!!!


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> We used a T post kit that we got at tractor supply.
> 
> http://www.wedgeloc.com/
> 
> Our ground is undiggable and rocky and there was no way I was digging the holes. I literally had to use a drill with a 1" spade bit for one post. After that I gave up. We couldn't get a tractor where we needed holes and no money to rent an auger and it probably would have broken my wrist.  The kit works well, it has been 8 years and still holding strong. We even stretched fence from it and when I stretch fence I REALLY stretch it. I use a come-along.
> 
> To keep my goats from using my fence as a back scratcher I have a row of hot wire at goat knee height.



Sorry if I'm dredging up old threads.

My land is like yours, rocks small and large everywhere. In fact I think people that came before me figured out every place I might want to dig a hole (fence post, garden, whatever) and determined that was THE best place to bury some unwanted rocks, covered with about 6" of dirt. 

Having read the @greybeard writeup on running fence around a corner post (stopping the run rather than continuing around the corner to the next post) how does the Wedgeloc corner square (pun not intentional) with the idea that running the fence around the post will tend to pull it and the brace posts inward? How does one put tension on the field fence and attach it to the T-post tight so the "end" can be brought back around the post and connected to the long run of fencing? I understand how it works when you can slam staples into a wood post to hold the fence tight.

Thanks.


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## babsbag

I run mine around the corner when using the wedgelock. I just made sure that the corner T-post was good and strong. I have only used it on one corner, the other ones are attached to oak trees...gotta love the mighty oak.


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## greybeard

babsbag said:


> I run mine around the corner when using the wedgelock. I just made sure that the corner T-post was good and strong. I have only used it on one corner, the other ones are attached to oak trees...gotta love the mighty oak.



I use trees sometimes, but I hate it. Wire grows into the tree, and the oak (or pine) sap rusts the wire rather quickly, and should the tree blow down, it takes 100 yards of fence and posts with it. Sometimes, ya just don't have much choice, especially if the tree is on the property line, like 2200' feet of my fence is bordering the National Forest.
(I don't use any teepost wedgelock corners)


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## Baymule

I learned my lesson about trees as fence posts. Nothing like chasing happy-to-be-free horses down the road because the tree fell down and so did your fence. Do they just HAVE to throw their tail in the air, toss their head and be so proud of themselves as they outwit you and run for the busy highway???

On our new place, so far there has been one tree up against the fence that we didn't cut. I nailed a 2x4 to it to act as a buffer between the tree and the wire. I didn't staple the wire to the 2x4.


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## babsbag

If you have ever lived in CA with scrub oaks you would know that they seldom fall down. The big black oaks will fall but these little ones we have can die and still stay solid as a rock for 15 years or more. And they grow slowly too. I usually run the fence around the tree and then run wire around the tree and through the fence and attach the fence that way. I will take pieces of drip tubing and slide it over the wire so it doesn't rub on the tree. That wire will rust quickly but the fence wire doesn't seem to rust from touching the tree.

Our ground is hard, rocky, not level, and remote. Digging holes for corners was nigh impossible. Then to carry the post and cement to the hole and carry water, just wasn't going to happen and no way to get equipment in so all by hand. I use trees for intermediate posts whenever I can for the same reason. 

We have a lot of trees on our property and going around them was just not an option and cutting them would have been another nightmare in itself, and why cut a good oak?


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## Mike CHS

I'm liking the Wedge-loc system but none of the stores around here carry any of the wedges.  I have most of the other hardware but no wedges.


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## babsbag

We bought ours as a kit but online Kencove has just the wedges


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