# Great Pyrenees



## ratkinso (Feb 19, 2013)

Hi all, I live in Houston, Texas and am wanting to get a LGD, am wanting a Pyrenees, but am wondering if it is too hot.  I do see others that have them here, but that doesn't mean it is good for the dog, or do you recommend another dog?  My thought was maybe a Blue Heeler or Australian Sheperd...  Have chickens currently, but plan very soon to get some goats (nigerian dwarf), thinking of putting a mini donkey in with the goats for a little extra protection.  We do have coyotes, also a wife that wants to feel comfortable for when I am gone..  we are city folk, just moving to the country on 30 acres...  plan to get some cows next year as well...  any opinions and/or advice would be great.

Thanks,
Randy


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## SheepGirl (Feb 19, 2013)

To my understanding, blue heelers and australian shepherds are herding dogs, NOT livestock guard dogs.

If you can't have a long haired breed like a GP, my next thought would be a short haired breed like an Anatolian.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 19, 2013)

Sheepgirl is correct. The dogs you mention are herding dogs not Livestock Guardians.
Anatolian may be a better choice.
If you are considering a mini donkey then don't get the dogs. LGD's do not need help. They also do not mix well with donkeys. If you are trying to find something to protect chickens please understand LGD's will take a long time to train for poultry...you will lose chickens.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 19, 2013)

I agree too. GP's I don't think would be a good choice due to the heat and only get one, a donkey or LGD.


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## goodolboy (Feb 19, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> Sheepgirl is correct. The dogs you mention are herding dogs not Livestock Guardians.
> Anatolian may be a better choice.
> If you are considering a mini donkey then don't get the dogs. LGD's do not need help. They also do not mix well with donkeys. If you are trying to find something to protect chickens please understand LGD's will take a long time to train for poultry...you will lose chickens.


X2


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## ratkinso (Feb 19, 2013)

Hmmm...  so then Anatolian or mini donkey...   donkey I would think would be cheaper, but Anatolian would work better???  I plan to cross-fence a 2.5 acre area in the middle of the 30 acres, for living area, inside the living area I plan to have the chickens and cross-fence an area in that for the goats as well...  that way they are all secured by fence around 30 acres, then fence around 2.5 acres, then fence around each of their areas, with a shed for each to go into at night for further protection...  dog would roam the 2.5 acre area mostly, so could keep donkey away from dog...  dog serves dual purpose of people protection, for my wifes comfort when I am not home....  maybe a better choice than donkey is llama? or are they as bad with dogs?  Wife is wanting an alpaca, do they work the same as llama?  We already have two chihuahua's, but doubt they would be much help with the coyotes   They will be my alert to grab a gun...


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## Southern by choice (Feb 19, 2013)

I know people have different experiences but it _usually_ is the same thing... llamas tend to want to kill the dogs.

I prefer dogs. We have 4 LGD's 3 pyrs and 1 anatolian.  They are in 2 teams. They patrol the fenceline are always on guard and deter the predators before they come into the fencing.

All the goat farms here use Pyrs and the few that have cattle have donkeys... the problem is the coyotes etc come into the field then get stomped, already posing a risk when there is a pack of 3-5 coyotes.  Usually inflicting bites etc before they are stomped. The dogs never let them in the fencing to begin with.

A cattle farmer here..a few miles away from us had his whole farm quarantined after 3 of his cows died from rabies... another farm's donkey died of rabies.

Donkeys and llamas can be great guardians yes, but IMO nothing beats a guardian dog.


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## goodolboy (Feb 19, 2013)

I agree Southern. The most I've ever seen dead on our place is a possum. The coyotes just don't cross the fence with the dogs there. We run two teams of three, but we have two large farms. The dogs scare them off BEFORE they're a threat.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 19, 2013)

Alpacas do not guard and actually they need to be guarded. Llamas guard but like donkeys they do NOT protect poultry at all. Most of the time they kill them. Also they don't see small animals such as raccoons and opposums as threats and they do not kill them which will be your biggest killer of poultry so a dog is by far your best choice.


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## ratkinso (Feb 19, 2013)

Thanks for all the GREAT information.  I guess that settles that, need me two Anatolian's....  Don't want just one, ever since getting two chihuahua's and seeing their interaction I feel it is important to have two of them..  though I'm guessing that they will eat as much as a horse...  wish I could get the Pyr, as I have read on this site that the Anatolian tend to be high strung, but I just couldn't do that to the poor guy...  I have also read on here, with Anatolian, two females would be best...  or one male and one female and have the normal two litters of pups or is that going to attract the coyotes too much??  And if we decide on Alpaca's I guess they can just run with the goats and no worry with the dogs and Alpacas..


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## ratkinso (Feb 19, 2013)

I guess I should really move the Alpaca question to that area...  sorry about that, just ignore that part and I will ask over there...


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## Southern by choice (Feb 19, 2013)

Our LGD's are to protect the goats...not chickens.

Please heed this advice...you will lose poultry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the matter of Anatolians...I very much disagree with the idea they are high strung.  As with any LGD breed they are not like other dog breeds...they are *distinctly different*. Out of a litter of LGD pups, each pup will have it's own personality and identifiable traits.  The dogs will not all be equal in these "traits".  One pup may be more suited to be on a farm with 300 acres with little human interaction...another pup may be better suited to an environment that id small family/ranch farm. Another may do best if it is paired properly with another dog of different traits...etc

Breeding and where the dogs are coming from are also a factor.

Typically Male Anatolians do not do well with other males... best M/F teams are best IMO...although F/F Anatolians do better than F/F pyrs. The Anatolian we have here is very laid back..not wild...loves her family.... is excellent with ALL the dogs on the property (we have 6)  she can come into our home and is as calm and sweet as can be. Climbing up on the couch for a few ZZZZZZZZZZ's  even. She is also an excellent guardian! She is 1 year old today... was recently present at her first kiddings and cleaned the kids is submissive to the does and has adopted the kids as her puppies.  Yet she still killed a chicken with my 14 month old Male Pyr. 

I do not get into which is a better LGD..I love my Pyrs... I love our Anatolian.... there are strengths and drawbacks to both breeds. I do however think the Anatolian is better suited for hot climates, it is not just there coats but also their head structure.

I strongly do believe people should *NOT* breed dogs until they really know what they are doing and UNTIL they already have enough people waiting for a dog BEFORE they are bred.

On that note...you also do not need to pay $1000 for one. Just a word of advice there.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 19, 2013)

Edited above post to add NOT in the breeding segment.


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## ratkinso (Feb 19, 2013)

Thank you very much for the information Southern.  That helps with the decision making of dogs and what to expect.  I had not even considered the Anatolian before this discussion started.


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## goodolboy (Feb 19, 2013)

I do believe I was the one that started the "high strung" thing. Please note that I don't have very much time spent around Anatolians at all. All ours are GP. I was trying to get some more info at the time I had posted that. So you can take that "high strung" with a grain of salt.


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## nawma (Feb 19, 2013)

I can't really speak to the question about which breed of dog to get. I have two German Shepard dogs, one male and one female and they are here to guard me. They are fabulous dogs. I also have 18 special needs Dachshunds who make excellent alarms. My other two dogs are walk on mutts that someone saw fit to dump in country. One of these mutts is the best skunk killing dog I have ever seen. 

But as a rescuer of dogs I highly recommend NEVER breeding dogs. Our shelters are all overflowing with unwanted dogs that would love the chance to guard your place. Breed specific rescues are a wonderful source if you must have a particular breed. All of my 22 dogs are rescues and they know they were given a second chance at a happy life. And all female dogs decrease their chance of cancer (the number one killer of dogs) by about 75% if they are spayed before they ever have a litter.


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## babsbag (Feb 19, 2013)

As far as making your wife feel safe, get an LGD, not a donkey. I have good fences and the coyotes have never crossed them, but before the LGD I was afraid to go out at night. Now I know that if the dogs aren't barking life if good. I go to the barn at night and milk and do chores all the time and feel safe. I love my dogs.

Both of mine are a mix of different LGD breeds. But one is short hiar and part anatolian, the other is longish hair and looks more like a pyr. I like them both. The female is the anatolian mix and she loves everyone; including my other dogs. She is great with the goats and kids and at 2.5 years of age I think I can finally trust her around the chickens, if I introduce new birds to the flock slowly and don't just toss them in the coop one night. She knows the difference. She could easily become a house dog when she retires. The male is more stand-offish with strangers and more timid in general. He will never get along with my house dogs. He is great at his job, and that is where he will always stay.

I agree that there are many dogs that need rescued, and LGDs are some of them, but unfortunately it is hard to know their habits and abilities and why they ended up in rescue. If I NEED an LGD I would rather not rescue one unless I can return it if it doesn't do its job. Hopefully the rescued dog doesn't do any damage while I am finding out if it is a good LGD.

There are some rescues out there that will place an LGD that came from a working ranch, but personally I would rather get a dog as a puppy or one from an owner that is just rehoming them for valid reasons. Not every dog will be a good LGD, even the ones with the genentic make up don't always make the final cut and they don't all work out for all farms. What works at one might not work at another.



			
				nawma said:
			
		

> Our shelters are all overflowing with unwanted dogs that would love the chance to guard your place. Breed specific rescues are a wonderful source if you must have a particular breed.


Unfortunately all the dogs that would love to guard your place may not be so happy to guard your flock, stay up nights, clean up baby goats, sleep in the barn in the heat and snow, eat in the barn and share their food with a pesty chicken, and not howl and bark when you leave them alone for hours on end. Not all dogs can or will be an LGD, they are almost a breed of thier own. And the longer I own them the more I admire them.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 19, 2013)

nawma said:
			
		

> I can't really speak to the question about which breed of dog to get. I have two German Shepard dogs, one male and one female and they are here to guard me. They are fabulous dogs. I also have 18 special needs Dachshunds who make excellent alarms. My other two dogs are walk on mutts that someone saw fit to dump in country. One of these mutts is the best skunk killing dog I have ever seen.
> 
> But as a rescuer of dogs I highly recommend NEVER breeding dogs. Our shelters are all overflowing with unwanted dogs that would love the chance to guard your place. Breed specific rescues are a wonderful source if you must have a particular breed. All of my 22 dogs are rescues and they know they were given a second chance at a happy life. And all female dogs decrease their chance of cancer (the number one killer of dogs) by about 75% if they are spayed before they ever have a litter.


Please PLEASE do not come in and talk about this kind of thing if you do not have LGD's. You have no LGD experience and do not need to post about this kind of thing and lecture all us LGD owners about not breeding dogs. Good for you for rescuing but responsible breeders ARE a good thing.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 19, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> nawma said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


x2  

Yes, breeding any animal without having homes for the offspring is irresponsible.  But there is a difference between a dog that will guard you, your property, and kill varmits, and one that BONDS with LIVESTOCK.  You can not expect a rescue animal to do that, even ones that are actually LGD breeds.


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## nawma (Feb 19, 2013)

Sorry. Didn't mean to step on anyone's  toes. The gentlemen said he would breed his dogs twice like it was a requirement  for a good dog to have two litters. Just wanted him to know that is not the case.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 19, 2013)

goodolboy said:
			
		

> I do believe I was the one that started the "high strung" thing. Please note that I don't have very much time spent around Anatolians at all. All ours are GP. I was trying to get some more info at the time I had posted that. So you can take that "high strung" with a grain of salt.


Actually good ol boy... this is a common perception albeit inaccurate.  

Most of this thought comes from the fact it was true at one time. This was considered a very rare breed in the states, however the breed became recognized by the AKC in I believe 1994 ( don't quote me on that...trying to serve from memory here). Usually that leads to the downfall of a breed and there was much hoopla about...many did not want the breed recognized as they feared it would ruin them...others saw it as tying to build more awareness and help support the breed and better it. 

I worked with these dogs BEFORE they were recognized...they were quite a bit more high strung. I think many of the "toli's" today have benefited from having a broader base to breed and keep the integrity of the health intact.

I also think quite often Toli  owners tend to perpetuate that ideal... many have no regard for other LGD's and rarely miss an opportunity to let everyone else "know" their breed is best.   It's ok though....they are just so  passionate about their dogs.

I love the Anatolian and really hate to see the rap it gets. People are very familiar with the pyr but not necessarily other LGD breeds. I personally LOVE the Kuvasz, but they are hard to find and most are now only found in "Show" stock.  Hardly any TM are even used as LGD's in the states. 

I do think a person must gain as much info on a breed that is otherwise foreign to them...BEFORE they ever own one.


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## goodolboy (Feb 20, 2013)

Great info. It does make me feel alittle better, but if I tought they were high strung and you just said "Most of this thought comes from the fact it was true at one time" is there anything to the Anatolian being more high strung than the GP, in general. I know every dog is different. Not trying to get that conversation started again.

I said something to SM last night about maybe getting an Anatolian, she quickly shot that down, stating that they are too expencive. I know that it doesn't make financial sense, but I just like the looks of the dog. Most people on here look at things like we use to before we really went big. There are some things that change when you go from the backyard to the back 40. We try real hard not to give much of that up, but you have to give some up to make $$$. Still don't have to like it.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 20, 2013)

I too love the Anatolian look. I think the're gorgeous. I get not wanting to pay a grand for them but you can find them less. Ask SM if you can find one less, more like Pyr range, if she'd let it happen.


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## goodolboy (Feb 20, 2013)

We breed our own GP so it'll be hard to beat that price.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 20, 2013)

haha I meant the normal price range. I think you should get an Anatolian, if you can find one at a decent price.


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## goodolboy (Feb 20, 2013)

Offering yours?


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## SheepGirl (Feb 20, 2013)

Or trade a GP pup for an Anatolian pup


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## goodolboy (Feb 20, 2013)

Yea, I have one of those the same age. Wanta trade Straw?


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 20, 2013)

No way on earth am I trading my Cal to anyone for anything!


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## goodolboy (Feb 20, 2013)

Sounds like you took that personal.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 20, 2013)

ha Just letting all know that Cal stays here with me.


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## goodolboy (Feb 20, 2013)

She could come visit for a long period of time. You can still own her.


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