# mysterious deaths with neurological symptoms



## mama24 (Jun 25, 2013)

This isn't exactly happening to me, but since we traded babies for a month, it does affect me. I traded goat kids with a friend to wean them when they were old enough. They suddenly started going downhill, one died, and I brought them all home. The other three have died since then--within 2 weeks, one at a time. But it's not just my kids, they were just the first. Since then, she has lost three more goat kids, a cat, and almost 2 whole litters of rabbit kits. Wth is going on? It's not even the same water b/c some of them are watered from a rain barrel and the rest from the well. They are all fine, then start losing weight, then weakness, convulsions, torticollis, then death, sometimes with foaming at the mouth. I have a goat kid in the freezer I'm going to take to the state lab once I have a day I can spend driving there and back. But wondering if anyone has any ideas or has heard of anything like this before. Poor girl, is her first year with animals and they keep dropping like flies. It's only my second year with my farm, so I'm no help.


----------



## DonnaBelle (Jun 25, 2013)

Coccidia?  It can affect all the species, you know.

Has she had a necropsy done on any of the dead animals?

I would sure want a professional opinion about what happened.

DonnaBelle


----------



## Southern by choice (Jun 25, 2013)

> They are all fine, then start losing weight, then weakness, convulsions, torticollis, then death, sometimes with foaming at the mouth.


Rabies would be my guess.

I say this based on the symptoms, time elapsed, and multiple species. You are also in the same state as I am... not sure what county you are in but the Piedmont region is heavy with rabies.

Foaming mouth is not seen in all rabies cases but is an end stage final symptom.

The other thing to look at would be toxoplasmosis. Carried by cats and affects warm-blooded mammals. Same symptoms. However I do not know if it affects all the species you've mentioned.

I think you are doing the right thing by going to the lab. You may even want to "sacrifice" an animal for the best diagnostic results. 

So sorry you are going through this. Please keep us posted. 

We keep watch on the different prions through this website- they do the most recent first... there are an amazing amount of rabies incidence in NC

http://naturalunseenhazards.wordpress.com/category/prion-disease/


----------



## SuburbanFarmChic (Jun 25, 2013)

How quickly are they going down hill?  What is the time frame from initial symptoms to death? 


Foaming at mouth is a symptom with rabies but it also comes with seizures.  


Friend had 2 goats die and one get incredibly sick with similar symptoms about 2 years ago.  4 in the same pen. 1 absolutely fine, 1 almost dead, 2 dead. All with in 3 days. 

Bodies were necropsied and tested for rabies and everything else. Inconclusive except for high copper. Suspect a plant toxicity or bacterial agent.


----------



## Pearce Pastures (Jun 25, 2013)

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> How quickly are they going down hill?  What is the time frame from initial symptoms to death?
> 
> 
> Foaming at mouth is a symptom with rabies but it also comes with seizures.
> ...


To the OP, when you say convulsions, would you say they are seizures?  I hope you get your answers from the lab and that it isn't rabies but it could be. I am wondering what the transmitter would be since it is affecting kids, baby buns, and cats.  Have all of the animals been young?


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jun 26, 2013)

how old were the rabbits?


----------



## SuburbanFarmChic (Jun 26, 2013)

Also, how quickly did it transfer between animals. Rabies can go as fast as a few days but it is usually closer to weeks/months for symptom onset. 

I just am not feeling rabies. I could be wrong but I'm thinking seizures caused the foaming.


----------



## Southern by choice (Jun 26, 2013)

I am waiting too....

The weirdest part is the rabbits.


----------



## bcnewe2 (Jun 26, 2013)

Never have I seen something go through so many carried species.  Such a hard thing to have to watch and not be able to help.


----------



## SuburbanFarmChic (Jun 27, 2013)

Another friend experienced similar between pigs to goats. We scraped her barn, limed the floors and bleached every single surface and so far nothing has happened since then.


----------



## AshleyFishy (Jun 27, 2013)

I had something similar two years back. Went through several goats, chickens and a cat. Mine turned out to be very aggressive coccidiosis. The goats were the worst about foaming out the nose and mouth, I thought it was rabies as well.

The goats would be fine.. then suddenly weak, some would loose the ability to walk straight off or would walk on their front knees or fall over and not be able to get up without you picking them up, go off feed, they would swing their head toward their backs and some would bawl heartbreakingly then went to convulsions and death. Most never had scours only one in I think 8 or 9 goats did, only one in about 12 chickens did and the cat never did.


If it is that... what worked for me was vaccinating with covexin 8 off label for the goats, after the fact. During the outbreak we used aureomycin crumbles for secondary infections, red cell to keep them a bit stronger and large amounts of liquid sulmet straight out of the bottle orally. So far I have never had it again.


----------



## promiseacres (Jun 27, 2013)

Isn't there something that can be carried in bird poo that could affect so many species? I guess my guess would be something. In the environment ....


----------



## Kotori (Jun 28, 2013)

Totally wierd :/ I'm no help, but I wanted to pop in and say freezing slightly damages the body- probably not a big deal for what you are looking for, but I've heard of it affecting snake prognosis and certain tissues. Refridgerating is a friendlier option if it is possible. Of course, then you have to take it quickly.


----------



## Rocco (Jun 28, 2013)

I certainly have no clue what might have caused the deaths, but I would probably rule out coccidiosis and rabies. Coccidiosis is species specific, so with the different species of animals dieing here it doesn't really fit. And rabies is spread mainly through bites and infected saliva, so that is a lot of saliva swapping going on....just doesn't fit.


----------



## mama24 (Jun 28, 2013)

Cat and rabbits (6 weeks old) were at her house, but the goats were housed at the big barn/pasture half a mile away. And the goats were rotated weekly in a portable electric pen, 3 rolls of fencing, so not a small area either for 2 adult goats and about 10 weaning age kids. I actually suspect it's a coincidence that all of her animals died within a week this time. She's been losing rabbits since their first litters this spring. I think the buck she got off Craigslist is carrying something that's spread since she got her rabbit does from me and I've never lost a kit past the first few days. And the cat was horribly sickly her whole life. They got her from the pound, but she was over a year old and the size of a 12 week old kitten. She wasn't vaccinated against flv, and that was my first thought when she told me she was sick and the symptoms. Can rabbits in super clean cages where absolutely all poop falls through still get coccidia?

As for the goats, we're starting to suspect bluetongue virus. Another goat friend about 20 miles west of us lost 4/5 of her goats within a few days of each other, same symptoms, last week. Her vet was stumped, but didn't run tests. The goat that survived is still alive, but seems to be severely neurologically impaired. Another friend does fawn rescue/rehab and said she lost several last year with identical symptoms and it was confirmed to be bluetongue. I do have a goat in my freezer that I'm driving to Raleigh as soon as I'm able, and I'll probably take one of my friend's frozen kits with me as well. We're in se Guilford county, btw. Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## bcnewe2 (Jun 28, 2013)

Please keep us posted. You seem to have us all stumped!  It almost sounds like it is coincidence.  I really know of nothing short of Rabies that will cross species like you have stated and that would have had enough incubation time that it would have seemed more spread out.

Hope it's the last of it what ever it might be.


----------



## Rocco (Jun 28, 2013)

One more thought I have is Listeriosis. I was trying to recall the symptoms that a couple of goats that my cousin owns had a while back that had us stumped. We came up with Goat Polio...but Listeriosis is very similar. Here is a description of the symptoms:

"...depression, decreased appetite, fever, leaning or stumbling or moving in one direction only, head pulled to flank with rigid neck (similar to symptoms of tetanus), facial paralysis on one side, blindness, slack jaw, and drooling. Diarrhea is present only in the strain of Listeriosis which causes abortions and pregnancy toxemia. Listeriosis can be mistaken for rabies. Immediate treatment is critical. There is no time to waste with Listeriosis"

So, then I looked to see if listeriosis could occur in rabbits and found this:

"...a farmer who raised approximately 50 rabbits in an outdoor colony observed that his does had had almost no live litters all
summer, and when neonates were seen, they died shortly afterward."

The cause was Listeriosis.

Could be a possibility?


----------



## mama24 (Jun 29, 2013)

Yes that does sound possible. I'll look into that. Thanks!


----------

