# My goat’s leg



## Gabe1218 (Jul 27, 2021)

I have a 9 month old doe whose front left leg hurts. There are no visible signs injury, but whenever she’s not walking she kneels or lays down. She has been like this for almost two weeks. Her lower leg is warm to the touch. So I think it might be laminitis, but I’m not sure. Her hoof looks totally normal.
We recently moved our goats into a new pasture where the don’t have much vegetation to forage. Could it be the change in diet that is cause laminitis or is it not even laminitis? I tried put some anti inflammatory for dogs in her pellet food but she wouldn’t eat it.  Other than her foot/hoof pain she is completely normal. Please share your thoughts, because I don’t know what to do.


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## misfitmorgan (Jul 28, 2021)

It would depend, generally diet change would be the cause. Did you suddenly give them much richer food, more food, less forage, concentrates, high-protein?? You moved them into a low forage pasture, are you giving them free access to hay to supplement?

When were her hooves trimmed last? We used to see goats down on their knees when we used to trim for hire, the main two causes were either hooves left way to long for a long time or long/folded hooves causing hoof rot. Laminitis in goats isnt a super common thing.

Has she ever had a kid before? Can you post a picture of her hooves? If her hooves swoop in from the front it is laminitis quickly becoming founder.


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## Gabe1218 (Jul 28, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> It would depend, generally diet change would be the cause. Did you suddenly give them much richer food, more food, less forage, concentrates, high-protein?? You moved them into a low forage pasture, are you giving them free access to hay to supplement?
> 
> When were her hooves trimmed last? We used to see goats down on their knees when we used to trim for hire, the main two causes were either hooves left way to long for a long time or long/folded hooves causing hoof rot. Laminitis in goats isnt a super common thing.
> 
> Has she ever had a kid before? Can you post a picture of her hooves? If her hooves swoop in from the front it is laminitis quickly becoming founder.


This morning I found all four of my does on there knees or laying down. The weird thing is it seems to be the front left foot that hurts on all of them. My wether and buck seem fine. They stay in the same barn and pasture as the does and eat the same things. All my goats are definitely due for a hoof trim, but they're not too bad. I will trim all their hooves today, but I don't think that's the problem. I have not changed the feed, I give them hay 2-3 times a week, and I occasionally cut tree branches and give it to them. Should I be giving them more hay? I think if it is laminitis it could be because of a mineral deficiency. When they got through their last salt lick I completely forgot to buy a new one. That was over a year ago.  I am going to buy them a salt lick today and hopefully that will help.
She has never kidded, but my other goats have and it looks like they have the same problem. What do you mean by her hooves swooping in from the front?

Here's a picture of her standing. In person you can tell she's in pain.


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## misfitmorgan (Jul 28, 2021)

Gabe1218 said:


> This morning I found all four of my does on there knees or laying down. The weird thing is it seems to be the front left foot that hurts on all of them. My wether and buck seem fine. They stay in the same barn and pasture as the does and eat the same things. All my goats are definitely due for a hoof trim, but they're not too bad. I will trim all their hooves today, but I don't think that's the problem. I have not changed the feed, I give them hay 2-3 times a week, and I occasionally cut tree branches and give it to them. Should I be giving them more hay? I think if it is laminitis it could be because of a mineral deficiency. When they got through their last salt lick I completely forgot to buy a new one. That was over a year ago.  I am going to buy them a salt lick today and hopefully that will help.
> She has never kidded, but my other goats have and it looks like they have the same problem. What do you mean by her hooves swooping in from the front?
> 
> Here's a picture of her standing. In person you can tell she's in pain.View attachment 87097


I can't see her hooves in the picture so I am thinking that means not over grown. If your other herd animals are now displaying the same thing it is probly time to call the vet.

A lack of minerals over that period of time should not cause laminitis, it can cause many other problems. If you mean a literal salt lick, that should not make any difference. Loose minerals work better for goats then blocks, and are more then just salt. 

As far as hay needs go, that depends on what the pellets you mentioned actually are?


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## Gabe1218 (Jul 28, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> I can't see her hooves in the picture so I am thinking that means not over grown. If your other herd animals are now displaying the same thing it is probably time to call the vet.
> 
> A lack of minerals over that period of time should not cause laminitis, it can cause many other problems. If you mean a literal salt lick, that should not make any difference. Loose minerals work better for goats then blocks, and are more then just salt.
> 
> As far as hay needs go, that depends on what the pellets you mentioned actually are?


The salt lick was not actually salt. I don't know exactly what it was, but I think it was a lick for sheep or cows. I live in Chile, South America. There are not any vets for livestock where I live and not many people own goats. So calling a vet is not a option. I have no idea what could cause such sudden problems in all my does. The only recent change in their diet and routine has been confining them in the pasture.


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## misfitmorgan (Jul 28, 2021)

Gabe1218 said:


> The salt lick was not actually salt. I don't know exactly what it was, but I think it was a lick for sheep or cows. I live in Chile, South America. There are not any vets for livestock where I live and not many people own goats. So calling a vet is not a option. I have no idea what could cause such sudden problems in all my does. The only recent change in their diet and routine has been confining them in the pasture.



I'm sorry I did not realize you lived in Chile. Are there any plants in the pasture that would be very high in protein?


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## Gabe1218 (Jul 28, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> I'm sorry I did not realize you lived in Chile. Are there any plants in the pasture that would be very high in protein?


No reason to apologize; I was just informing you of the situation. There is just grass in the pasture, but the tree limbs I give them might be high in protein.


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## misfitmorgan (Jul 29, 2021)

What kind of tree are they from? Are you giving them more pellets then before they were on pasture? What are the pellets?


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## Gabe1218 (Jul 29, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> What kind of tree are they from? Are you giving them more pellets then before they were on pasture? What are the pellets?


I gave them a couple kind of tree limbs, but one of them they didn't eat at all. I'll take that one out, but the other one they have been eating pretty much their whole lives without any problems. I'm glad you asked about the pellets because I think I found the issue. I didn't even think to check the ingredients when buying their feed. The feed is made for sheep because like I said before, not many people have goats. The ingredients are corn, oats, barley sprouts, lupine, canola, bean flower, soy, and whole wheat flower. It says it's 16% protein. I think they're eating to much grain and/or protein. Do you agree? Should I change their feed or just feed them less often? Currently I'm feeding them once every day. I don't know exactly how much each of them eats, but I'd say about 1-2 cups per day.


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## misfitmorgan (Jul 30, 2021)

Gabe1218 said:


> I gave them a couple kind of tree limbs, but one of them they didn't eat at all. I'll take that one out, but the other one they have been eating pretty much their whole lives without any problems. I'm glad you asked about the pellets because I think I found the issue. I didn't even think to check the ingredients when buying their feed. The feed is made for sheep because like I said before, not many people have goats. The ingredients are corn, oats, barley sprouts, lupine, canola, bean flower, soy, and whole wheat flower. It says it's 16% protein. I think they're eating to much grain and/or protein. Do you agree? Should I change their feed or just feed them less often? Currently I'm feeding them once every day. I don't know exactly how much each of them eats, but I'd say about 1-2 cups per day.


It sounds like protein wise that feed should be ok, 16% is the normal amount for goats and sheep. Maybe just keep them off grain all together for a couple weeks and see if that helps. Give them more hay instead if they are low on pasture forage. Honestly I'm kind of stumped on what could be causing the problem without any major changes happening recently.  Really the only thing I can think of aside from grain is something in the pasture but you already said it is only grass so that doesnt really make sense. Are they still acting like their hooves are sore?


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## Gabe1218 (Jul 30, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> It sounds like protein wise that feed should be ok, 16% is the normal amount for goats and sheep. Maybe just keep them off grain all together for a couple weeks and see if that helps. Give them more hay instead if they are low on pasture forage. Honestly I'm kind of stumped on what could be causing the problem without any major changes happening recently.  Really the only thing I can think of aside from grain is something in the pasture but you already said it is only grass so that doesnt really make sense. Are they still acting like their hooves are sore?


Ya, they are still staying off their feet whenever they can. I am going out to the barn a few times a day to make them stand up and walk. Today I stop feeding them pellets and I will give them as much hay as they want. I'm thinking about splinting them for a couple hours a day to keep them walking. They're all due to kid in the next 1-2 months, so I hope the recover before then. I'm worried for them and their kids. Thank you for all your help; I'll keep you posted.


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## Alaskan (Jul 30, 2021)

I too am stumped as to what could be going on.

I would super carefully inspect their hooves, see if there is any injury or infection in there.

I would find a loose mineral to give them.

I would free feed them hay.

And I would look into all of your local parasites.   Maybe this is a local parasite??


As to splitting their legs...  be very careful about not making it too tight.


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## Gabe1218 (Jul 30, 2021)

o


Alaskan said:


> I too am stumped as to what could be going on.
> 
> I would super carefully inspect their hooves, see if there is any injury or infection in there.
> 
> ...


ok, thanks for you suggestions. Today I trimmed and inspected their hooves and they look normal. The doe I originally came here about, ellen, and another doe seem to be the worst off. The other ones are almost normal. Just a little limping. I soaked all of their feet in iodine just to be safe.


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## Ridgetop (Jul 30, 2021)

Are you sure it is their hooves?  Could it be their joints?  Are these does all related to each other?  Were they nursed on their mothers or bottle fed pasteurized milk and heat treated colostrum?  Is it possible that they have developed CAE? 

If they are heavily pregnant, their pregnancy weight might have made sore or arthritic knees hurt more.


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## messybun (Jul 30, 2021)

Have you checked closely for injuries? Especially from a small dog or something biting them? Are they running a fever?
 Is it hotter than normal, because I’m wondering if the heat and pregnancy is a part of this.


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## Gabe1218 (Aug 2, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> Are you sure it is their hooves?  Could it be their joints?  Are these does all related to each other?  Were they nursed on their mothers or bottle fed pasteurized milk and heat treated colostrum?  Is it possible that they have developed CAE?
> 
> If they are heavily pregnant, their pregnancy weight might have made sore or arthritic knees hurt more.


I actually don't think it's their hooves. their hooves look completely normal. We trimmed all their hooves on friday and they aren't perfect but they've been worse. They are all related. The mom/grandma of them all is doing better then the rest. They were all nursed by their mothers. When some of them walk I can here their joints cracking. Is that a sign of arthritis? Could they all have genetic arthritis?


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## Gabe1218 (Aug 2, 2021)

messybun said:


> Have you checked closely for injuries? Especially from a small dog or something biting them? Are they running a fever?
> Is it hotter than normal, because I’m wondering if the heat and pregnancy is a part of this.


Yes I checked for injuries, and I can't find any. On one of them her lower leg is slightly warmer than her other legs. It is winter here in the southern hemisphere, so it's not very hot.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 2, 2021)

Gabe1218 said:


> I actually don't think it's their hooves. their hooves look completely normal. We trimmed all their hooves on friday and they aren't perfect but they've been worse. They are all related. The mom/grandma of them all is doing better then the rest. They were all nursed by their mothers. When some of them walk I can here their joints cracking. Is that a sign of arthritis? Could they all have genetic arthritis?


CAE is a disease and if one has it, they all have it usually. CAE is most commonly spread from mother to kid when nursing so if they are all mom/daughter thats a strong case for it.

"The arthritic form of the CAE virus is most common and is seen in adult goats 1 - 2 years old. Signs usually include *weight loss, poor hair condition, and enlarged joints*, especially in the carpal, hocks, and stifle. Other symptoms during the early onset of the virus include leg lameness."


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## Gabe1218 (Aug 2, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> CAE is a disease and if one has it, they all have it usually. CAE is most commonly spread from mother to kid when nursing so if they are all mom/daughter thats a strong case for it.
> 
> "The arthritic form of the CAE virus is most common and is seen in adult goats 1 - 2 years old. Signs usually include *weight loss, poor hair condition, and enlarged joints*, especially in the carpal, hocks, and stifle. Other symptoms during the early onset of the virus include leg lameness."


Oh, that fits their condition. Except none of my goats have nursed in five months. I guess it could have spread another way. And why would it so suddenly appear in all my goats? Their knees aren't swollen. Is there any treatment?


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 2, 2021)

Gabe1218 said:


> Oh, that fits their condition. Except none of my goats have nursed in five months. I guess it could have spread another way. Their knees aren't swollen. Is there any treatment?



It is picked up at birth but doesnt show signs until later in life so the time since nursing does not matter.  There is no treatment and they will not get better if it is CAE. CAE will eventually cause death as they will at some point no longer be able to get up to get to food/water or ruminate properly.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/c...conditions-and-caprine-arthritis-encephalitis

There is a test to know for sure if they have CAE but without any vets I am not sure where you would send the blood sample to for the determination.


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## Gabe1218 (Aug 2, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> It is picked up at birth but doesnt show signs until later in life so the time since nursing does not matter.  There is no treatment and they will not get better if it is CAE. CAE will eventually cause death as they will at some point no longer be able to get up to get to food/water or ruminate properly.
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/c...conditions-and-caprine-arthritis-encephalitis
> 
> There is a test to know for sure if they have CAE but without any vets I am not sure where you would send the blood sample to for the determination.


Oh no. That must be what they have. Unfortunately I won't be able to get them tested. If it is CAE will their kids be born with it or will will they have to get it from their mothers milk?


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## Margali (Aug 2, 2021)

The adults can be kept comfortable but there's no cure.

Pulling the babies as soon as they are born and feeding pasturized colostrum and milk will greatly help in keeping them from getting CAE.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 3, 2021)

Gabe1218 said:


> Oh no. That must be what they have. Unfortunately I won't be able to get them tested. If it is CAE will their kids be born with it or will will they have to get it from their mothers milk?


When things get advanced you can start giving them anti-inflammatory meds every 12hrs if you want to extent their quality of life. Usually aspirin is used. Be aware the meds will cause damage on the internal organs over time so it is not a long term thing. At some point the goats will need to be put down to end their suffering when quality of life is to poor.

Usually herds with CAE all kids are taken away from their moms and kept away, then as Margali said you feed them pasturized colostrum and milk. The kids are kept away from the parents and on seperate pasture that the parents are never put on. Eventually you can have a herd without CAE if you follow that practice as the older goats with CAE will die/be put down and the young goats will be free of CAE hopefully.


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## Ridgetop (Aug 6, 2021)

There is a blood test that can be done  Vet draws blood into a tube and you send it to whichever university does livestock testing for your area of the country.  I am in southern CA and sent mine to Washington State University.  The results can be emailed to you.  A positive test means CAE.  *There is no cure.*

We had a large herd of dairy goats and blood tested every year.  All kids were immediately removed and fed _*heat treated*_ colostrum. You can't pasteurize colostrum - it turns into cheese. We pasteurized all milk fed to the kids. To tell the different between pasteurized and fresh I added blue food coloring t the pasteurized milk. We showed all our goats at many shows and although they were all pasteurized we blood tested annually to make certain no CAE turned up. We had a clean herd. One year we did have an older doe who had tested clean fir several years turn positive. We taken her to a breeder. She had some positive animals although she told us she did not. Found out later that others had the same experience.   The positive doe went to the auction immediately.  

This is a serious disease.  The fact that your young kids are _already_ showing symptoms is a bad sign.  CAE symptoms usually turn up at older ages.  *DO NOT BREED ANY OF THESE GOATS.  *Unless you can guarantee pulling these kids off immediately after birth without nursing, if they get any milk or colostrum from their mama they will develop CAE.

This is a painful disease.  In the worst cases of the disease the animal will not be able to walk or stand. 

I'm sorry to hear about this.  *However, before accepting this as CAE I recommend you do the blood test.  We are not veterinarians, and can only advise as to possibilities.

*


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 6, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> There is a blood test that can be done  Vet draws blood into a tube and you send it to whichever university does livestock testing for your area of the country.  I am in southern CA and sent mine to Washington State University.  The results can be emailed to you.  A positive test means CAE.  *There is no cure.*
> 
> We had a large herd of dairy goats and blood tested every year.  All kids were immediately removed and fed _*heat treated*_ colostrum. You can't pasteurize colostrum - it turns into cheese. We pasteurized all milk fed to the kids. To tell the different between pasteurized and fresh I added blue food coloring t the pasteurized milk. We showed all our goats at many shows and although they were all pasteurized we blood tested annually to make certain no CAE turned up. We had a clean herd. One year we did have an older doe who had tested clean fir several years turn positive. We taken her to a breeder. She had some positive animals although she told us she did not. Found out later that others had the same experience.   The positive doe went to the auction immediately.
> 
> ...


.............They live in Chile...........


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## Ridgetop (Aug 6, 2021)

No vets in Chile?

*Gabe 1218 - before you freak out about this disease* *- I forgot to add that CAE is strictly a goat disease and will not transfer to humans.  The milk of CAE positive goats is safe for you or your children to drink or cook with.  *


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 6, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> No vets in Chile?
> 
> *Gabe 1218 - before you freak out about this disease* *- I forgot to add that CAE is strictly a goat disease and will not transfer to humans.  The milk of CAE positive goats is safe for you or your children to drink or cook with.  *


According to the OP not where they live and not many people have goats.


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