# LGD x Golden Retriever... would this make a good mix?



## dianneS (Jun 23, 2012)

I have a Karakachan/Great Pyr cross, intact male.  I have a friend in need of a LGD and I wouldn't mind having another guardian myself.  She has a Golden Retriever that desperately wants to have puppies.  She's a great dog, but not really a guardian dog.  Has good instincts does not have a strong prey drive and is really sweet.  What kind of combo do you think that would make?  Would it be better to mix only two LGD breeds?


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## ksalvagno (Jun 23, 2012)

If you want an LGD dog, then I would breed to another LGD. If it doesn't matter, then go for it.


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## Grazer (Jun 23, 2012)

Personally I don't think this is a good idea at all. In fact I think it makes no sense to mix a working LGD with a retriever breed that's nowadays mostly used as either a pet or a service dog because of their character.
Your dog and your friend's dog couldn't have a more different background.

I'm all for LGD mixes between 2 different LGD breeds; but I'm against mixing LGD's with non-LGD breeds. I'm sure some people will say they have had a good experience with such a mix, but I don't see the purpose of doing such mix.
I don't know what kind of predators you have where you live, but the Golden Retriever in such mix would make that dog less capable of dealing with anything bigger than a coyote..
There is a reason why LGD breeds are huge and why these breeds are capable of scaring off and/or chasing off large predators. Tough selection for hundreds, even thousands of years is that reason.
So I say, why dilute the gene-pool with a breed that's been selected to do something completely different?

If you want another guardian, look for LGD puppies from working parents. They often come reasonably cheap, somewhere between 200 and 500 dollars.
And then the chance is huge you'll at least have the right dog for your situation. 


You also say the Golden Retriever female desperate wants puppies? This might be a symptom of false pregnancy/pseudopregnancy syndrome. 
I would have your friend talk to her vet about it, just in case.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jun 23, 2012)

Grazer said:
			
		

> Personally I don't think this is a good idea at all. In fact I think it makes no sense to mix a working LGD with a retriever breed that's nowadays mostly used as either a pet or a service dog because of their character.
> Your dog and your friend's dog couldn't have a more different background.
> 
> I'm all for LGD mixes between 2 different LGD breeds; but I'm against mixing LGD's with non-LGD breeds. I'm sure some people will say they have had a good experience with such a mix, but I don't see the purpose of doing such mix.
> ...


X2 I would not mix them either. No kind of retriever is not a LGD. I don't think it would work out to well.


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## dianneS (Jun 24, 2012)

I didn't think it was a good idea either, thanks for confirming that!  It was her idea.  I'll tell her to get a great pyr pup and some day we'll breed them!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 24, 2012)

Yep, bad idea.  Plenty of mixed breed pets out there without adding more to the pool and that breeding is unlikely to give you any working dogs.  Goldens were bred for completely different purposes.


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## Grazer (Jun 24, 2012)

@ dianneS
That sounds like a good plan. I mean I understand why your friend came up with that idea in the first place; sometimes when people own a really good dog, they want one just like him/her in the future. 
So hopefully if your friend gets a Great Pyr puppy, it will be one with an amazing character & health as well.


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## Mzyla (Jun 25, 2012)

Everybody have a good point.
There is one thing that you must FORESEEN:

If you decide to breed these two and say you take 1 pup and you friend keep 1 pup.
What is gone happen with the rest???
You must realize that it's gone be very HARD to place them in good homes.
People will be seeing them as *MUTTS*, thus making almost impossible to sell them and where do they end up? In the pond?
This is what worries me the most.


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## Symphony (Aug 17, 2012)

Mzyla said:
			
		

> Everybody have a good point.
> There is one thing that you must FORESEEN:
> 
> If you decide to breed these two and say you take 1 pup and you friend keep 1 pup.
> ...


There's NOTHING wrong with a Mutt!


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## marlowmanor (Aug 17, 2012)

Symphony said:
			
		

> Mzyla said:
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> ...


I agree. Some of the best dogs are "mutts"! I've never had a purebred dog, but every dog I have had has been wonderful and all were "mutts"


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## Southern by choice (Aug 17, 2012)

I couldn't agree more with Mzyla-
What about the rest of the litter?
Mutts are great dogs-or can be... I have worked with hundreds of breeds. Rare breeds, herding,working, etc.  all groups in a professional capacity keeping the true nature of a breed in mind is so important! Your friend could always find a good stud and have Golden pups!
We have 4 LGD's 1 GSD(German Shepherd Dog) working stock-not herding, yet has natural instinct for herding and 1 really awesome MUTT! Best farmdog ever- but she was raised up from a pup by a working GSD who taught her everything.
Small to medium "mutts" are easy to find pet homes for but Lg-xlg dogs don't seem to fair as well, the cute pup stage wears off and then the size is realized. It's not for your everyday pet owner-sadly .


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## CochinBrahmaLover=) (Aug 17, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> I couldn't agree more with Mzyla-
> What about the rest of the litter?
> Mutts are great dogs-or can be... I have worked with hundreds of breeds. Rare breeds, herding,working, etc.  all groups in a professional capacity keeping the true nature of a breed in mind is so important! Your friend could always find a good stud and have Golden pups!
> We have 4 LGD's 1 GSD(German Shepherd Dog) working stock-not herding, yet has natural instinct for herding and 1 really awesome MUTT! Best farmdog ever- but she was raised up from a pup by a working GSD who taught her everything.
> Small to medium "mutts" are easy to find pet homes for but Lg-xlg dogs don't seem to fair as well, the cute pup stage wears off and then the size is realized. It's not for your everyday pet owner-sadly .


OK Myzla and Southern -->

Why is it going to be hard to sell a mutt? A LGD is a LGD to some people, I don't see why making it a mutt would suddenly make it unsellable.


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Aug 17, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> I couldn't agree more with Mzyla-
> What about the rest of the litter?
> Mutts are great dogs-or can be... I have worked with hundreds of breeds. Rare breeds, herding,working, etc.  all groups in a professional capacity keeping the true nature of a breed in mind is so important! Your friend could always find a good stud and have Golden pups!
> We have 4 LGD's 1 GSD(German Shepherd Dog) working stock-not herding, yet has natural instinct for herding and 1 really awesome MUTT! Best farmdog ever- but she was raised up from a pup by a working GSD who taught her everything.
> Small to medium "mutts" are easy to find pet homes for but Lg-xlg dogs don't seem to fair as well, the cute pup stage wears off and then the size is realized. It's not for your everyday pet owner-sadly .


Just saw someone trying to rehome an 8 month old St. Bernard X GSD on CL. I agree with this completely. Cute, adorable puppy is now HUGE and life situations change when your pup outgrows you and you keep him locked in the backyard all day. Plus large litters can be pretty big. I've personally seen a mama with 15 pups. and we were standby one night for a great dane that had 13 or 14 via c-section(I worked at the emergency vet in town).  I saw a great pyr X greyhound on CL last week. Hows that for a horrible LGD mutt!


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Aug 17, 2012)

dianneS said:
			
		

> I have a Karakachan/Great Pyr cross, intact male.  I have a friend in need of a LGD and I wouldn't mind having another guardian myself.  She has a Golden Retriever that desperately wants to have puppies. * She's a great dog, but not really a guardian dog.*  Has good instincts does not have a strong prey drive and is really sweet.  What kind of combo do you think that would make?  Would it be better to mix only two LGD breeds?


To the op:  I think that your statement will help you make your own educated decision.  

If you want a LGD (Livestock Guardian Dog) that is a true LGD, from a LGD breed with all of its instincts as they have created for, then you would want to stick with strictly a purebread LGD or a cross of LGD breeds.  This would also make it easier when trying to rehome or sell the pups.  A person with livestock that is looking for a true LGD breed would certainly consider a LGD x LGD.  However, most likely, they would not consider a LGD x "XYZ" as you are taking away from the insticts that have been bred and adding other insticts that are not condussive to Guarding.  

With the two breeds of dogs that you have mentioned, you have a breed that has guarding instincts and a breed that has retrieving instints.  Both of which are complete opposites. Which instincts are going to show up more dominant in your pups?  It's not going to be a 50/50 split.  This is where a problem might arise.  You may end up with a pup that wants to instinctually, go get every loose chicken and bring it back to you.  Or one that is more loyal to the family instead of the livestock. (another common Golden Retriever quality) Because that is what their breed is for.  Or you may end up with a great guardian, but you just have no way of knowing.  This is why someone that wants a true LGD would most likely not want this cross and for this situation would be more difficult to get rid of the pups.  

You absolutely may get wonderful dogs that will bark, be good around your livestock and be great family pets.  Just maybe not the best Guardian dog if that is what you are setting out to breed and own.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 17, 2012)

Understanding the nature of a breed is important, this suggested mating is not going to produce a LGD.
Example: my mutt (from the above post) is great but she is not a LGD. She will do anything on command and will always return to your side. Loyalty is strictly to people. My GSD is not an LGD- although she has extreme prey drive she would constantly try to herd all the animals to one place and hold them there- she is not in the fields with the animals because overall it would stress them severely. 
If the mating were to take place I have no doubt they would be adorable... and great pets but more than likely wouldn't do the job you want them to, and finding pet homes with ample space and owners that are use to and understand xlrg dogs are few.
I was just on the phone this am talking to a young woman who is trying to place an anatolian. Dog is 3yrs old, she got her from the pound a month ago, long story short original owners tried to make her a housepet, new owner knew nothing about the breed, the dog is way too much for her, she loves her but first thing she said was this dog needs some land after informing her about the breed and its heritage( up at night-nocturnal animal, digging, barking, running, size etc) she said she wish she had known this beforehand. SAD 
I don't think there is anything wrong with a Mutt. I love mine!
 Rule of thumb: if you breed a dog are you willing to take a pup (no matter the age) back if things don't work out for the new owner???
 one of the saddest things is to go on the Great Pyrenees Rescue website... look how many dogs and mix pyrs there are then look at how they will never be adopted out because they deny the nature of the dog.... no outdoor, not too many children,no Lgd, etc. soooo sad.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 19, 2012)

CochinBrahmaLover=) said:
			
		

> Southern by choice said:
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> 
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A golden retriever is NOT a LGD.


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