# New Bull



## cjc (Oct 11, 2017)

Hey Everyone . I haven't been on in awhile and just wanted to share a picture of a new bull we got. 5 of the heifer bottle calves I raised a year ago I am going to give a go at breeding this year. I picked up this red angus bull for $1,700. I don't know if that's a good price but my friend told me it was so I grabbed him. He's very quiet. Last year we only had 1 out of 4 cows have a calf that it raised no problem. 2 other calves died, one I had to raise on a bottle, 2 dams died...horrible year. We swore we would never do it again and here we are  about to breed more than we ever have and bought a bull....may the odds be ever in my favour


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## babsbag (Oct 12, 2017)

Good to see you on BYH. Is life keeping you busy? We like pictures of two legged kids too.  HINT HINT.

I know zero about cattle but you are certainly due a good year after that last one. Hope it all goes well and that your new bull likes the girls.


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## greybeard (Oct 12, 2017)

For this year, not a bad price for a bull, depending on his lineage, and hopefully you had a Breeding Soundness Examination done on him before buying. Anyone buying a bull needs to have this done and preferrably, get some kind of guarantee from the breeder in case the bull cannot/does not perform, and most certainly be checked for Trich.
http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/trichomoniasis-and-other-stds-beef-cattle-proceedings
I do like the Red Angus breed very much, but not many in my area to choose from.
From a physical "eyeball" standpoint, you look for 3 things in a bull first. 'nuts/butt/gut'. Meaning Scrotal size (circumference) , muscling in his hind quarter, and girth of his mid section. He has to be able to take in, store, and process plenty of forage in order to be able to do his job all day. 
Beyond those 3 things, conformity on top and bottom line (should be straight), size of sheath (less is better and the sheath on your new bull looks good) his attitude, should be an easy doer and easy to handle. 
If registered, you should be able to access his EPDs via the breed association using his registration #. This will show you any potential problems and whether he is a good candidate to use on heifers or even 2nd calf cows.

(if there was not a BSE done prior to purchase, I strongly suggest having it done before he is turned out with the cows and most certainly have him checked for trich!!!)


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## farmerjan (Oct 12, 2017)

I was thinking about you the other day and wondered how you were, how the baby situation was.  Meaning human not animal !!!!
How is your jersey and the calf?  Since you brought home a bull it does sound like you are getting back into the animal swing of things.
All that Greybeard said is good.  Trich is a problem in cattle and can cause real havoc.  Did this guy come from a breeding herd?  Knowing if he is "sound"  is important.  We had a bull we used for 5-6 years, then one summer he was shooting blanks and had 15 out of 16 cows open !!!!  What a disaster... normally we don't do a BSE on bulls that we keep and use regularly.  Guess that guy just ran out of steam...  We did have a problem last year at a pasture and did have the bull checked this year that had been there to be sure he was okay, and he was.

Being red angus you should be good on heifers, MOST angus will throw calves that heifers will not have problems having.  Not all but most.  Yes you can check the epd's if he is registered.  The red angus seem to have nicer butts than many of the blacks so you ought to get some nice calves from the bottle calves which are angus/holstein if I remember correctly.  And he will be fine on your jersey since she is a "cow"  now.

We have one angus bull that is not safe on heifers, but we bought him with the idea to replace a "cow bull"  that we sold.  His calves are supposed to be bigger at birth, and that is what we wanted.  In fact we didn't go to buy a bull at all, but to visit with people as we have bought from this farmer/breeder many times over the years, and this bull did not bring alot because every one is wanting calving ease bulls.  We couldn't pass him up and will put him with the cows this fall at one pasture.  He actually has been sitting for a year with nothing to do but grow a bit.  But he was insurance in case something happened to one of our other bulls.  I think we paid $2500 for him.  These last 2 years bull prices have come down;  we paid over $5000 for a calving ease " heifer bull"  5 years ago.  What you paid for him seems fair if he is  a proven breeder.

Glad to see you back.  Catch us up on what you have been doing....


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## greybeard (Oct 12, 2017)

farmerjan said:


> Did this guy come from a breeding herd? Knowing if he is "sound" is important. We had a bull we used for 5-6 years, then one summer he was shooting blanks and had 15 out of 16 cows open !!!! What a disaster... normally we don't do a BSE on bulls that we keep and use regularly. Guess that guy just ran out of steam...



Might have been trich, may have injured himself while breeding or 'bullin' around. Lost libido is always a risk too. Sometimes it's correctable with something as simple as a change in minerals or better overall nutrition. Other times, only fix for it is a set of axles and wheels under him.
Tho it's not often discussed here at BH for reasons unknown, people need to educate themselves in what to watch for during the breeding act. A broken penis for instance, and that malady is more common than folks think. It can happen at any time to any bull. 

I'm sure you see lots of bull reproductive problems in your line of work with dairy animals Jan and in the cleanup bulls  and it's money down the drain when you find supposedly bred cows .........open. 
I lost nearly a whole season of calf crop one year because of a blank shooter.
As far as trich and aborted calves, unless the females are kept in a small paddock and watched closely, the herdsman will more than likely never even find an aborted fetus and the first sign of trich in the herd is open cows when they come back into heat unexpectedly.


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## cjc (Oct 12, 2017)

Thanks for all this great info @greybeard @farmerjan. I know about zero when it comes to bulls! I will ask my friend about all this stuff. He’s a big Cattle raiser in our area (500 head). I just trust him with what he gives me but this bull is from auction. And he owns the auction so...the circle goes around . He did give me the bull last year that through me that 200lb deformed calf. He wanted me to raise short horns still but im taking a break and trying Angus! I don’t like the Angus temperament but they sell easiest in our parts. People just want a solid black or red calf it seems.

@farmerjan @babsbag baby is doing well thank you! He will be 5 months on the 26th. It’s definitely slowed down my cow activities but he’s been great. He’s a big boy! 18lbs already so lugging him around the farm is hurting my back!  He has an obsession with animals though...it was bound to happen.


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## frustratedearthmother (Oct 12, 2017)

I don't know anything about bulls either ... but I have a little experience with babies - and yours is a keeper!  He is a doll!


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## Baymule (Oct 12, 2017)

Your bull is a nice looking boy, but your baby is waaaay cuter! It won't be long before you have a lil' cowpoke trailing along with you!


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## farmerjan (Oct 12, 2017)

Congrats on the "little"  bundle of joy!!!!  He' a cutie.

I have to take a little issue with the statement of the "angus temperament". I honestly find them no more difficult to work around than a hereford or a shorthorn.  And they are certainly better than a dairy bull.  If this friend is a cattleman, runs the number of cattle you say, and is the owner of the auction, then he probably knows where the bull came from.  If he is quiet and has a good disposition, then I would trust this guys judgement.
Especially  after last years horrible experiences, and him being well aware of what all happened, it is very unlikely he would steer you wrong.  I think that you are on the right road to getting the cows/heifers bred and being a productive part of the farm.

Just a note greybeard, on that bull of ours; it was probably just time he was gone.  His libido was very low, he had some age, no broken penis, no feet or leg problems.  He went down the road 2 days later.  Put 2 bulls in there, one was only past a yearling but the other was 18-19 months.  All the cows settled to them within 40 days or so, 2 to the younger bull, who was red and the calves the next year were red.  We didn't lose the whole breeding season but they were definitely  behind the rest of the cattle for spring calves.  Some got ahead the next year and gained a little bit, a few we just held back for the fall calving group.  Not ideal, but not a total loss.  Thank goodness we preg check.....


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## greybeard (Oct 12, 2017)

I'm unsure of how stringent trich regs are in Canada, but here in Texas, they are pretty tough. There's a big sign at the payout window of both auction salebarns I go to reminding buyers of the regs and their responsibilities.

_The Texas control program has evolved through the years—and continues to evolve. Today’s regulations include, but are not limited to: 
• A trichomoniasis test is valid for only 60 days. 
• Neighbors should be notified when a ranch finds a positive animal but neighbors are not required to test for trich. 
• “Cutter” bulls can move to feedlot for castration at the feedlot. 
• Buyers of untested bulls have seven days to decide whether to test, slaughter, feed or resell said bulls. 
• Virgin bulls moving interstate into Texas more than 12 months of age must be tested, while those under 12 months of age do not need to be tested. 
• Breeding bulls from Canada or Mexico entering directly into Texas may move under an entry permit and remain under hold order at designated premises, away from female cattle, until they test negative. 
• Out-of-state untested bulls can go to feedyards. 
• Infected bulls can be sold at markets and moved under permit to slaughter. 
• Large ranches identified with trich have three years to manage it and must at least test once a year. Bulls testing positive must go to slaughter. The ranch must enter into a herd plan with TAHC and their veterinarian to effectively remove the disease from the herd during the three years. • The maximum time for retesting bulls in infected herds is 60 days._


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## goatgurl (Oct 12, 2017)

ok, its official, your baby boy is a cutie patootie.  I love those big intelligent eyes.  he's going to give you a run for your money one of these days.  my daughter had one of those jolly jumpers when she was a baby and loved it, jumping and giggling.  
nice looking bull too.  hope the breeding season goes smoothly.


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## cjc (Oct 13, 2017)

Thanks Everyone!

@greybeard I had never even heard of this before!

@farmerjan well, I do love the Angus I have but my history with them is not so good. Out of all the breeds I have raised, Short Horn, Angus, Hereford and Jersey's the Angus have given me the most trouble temperament wise. But! They have also given me zero problems health wise. They all seem to raise their calves well and they sell easy. I have 16 in my herd now and all but 3 are Angus or an Angus X. I have one Angus X Shorthorn steer who is a beautiful creature. He is the one head butting the bull in my post. But he's a pet, because I am a fool 

My jersey calf is doing GREAT! She is adorable. We are keeping her as a pet for my son. She is one lucky little girl. She is currently being raised with an angus calf I bought a few days after her. I will get some pictures of him later and post them, he is the best calf we have raised. My mother really wanted to keep his balls on but we tied them. As you can see I know nothing about bulls and I didn't even know where you start with selecting and raising one as a calf.

I have the jersey I bought to be a nurse cow last year if you remember her. She had a bull calf last year which is about to go to slaughter (devastated about that). I am really uncertain what to do with my jersey though. She is a great cow. But she is 100% a pet. She is a horrible mother and an even worse nurse cow. And I don't have the patience right now to teach her to be otherwise. I am going to breed her to my Angus bull and just get the word out there that I have a bred jersey for sale, if the right offer comes ill take it. But only to the right home. She is a pet and I need her to stay that way or I will feel very guilty. I bought her as a 4H cow from a little girl next door.  

This is what I am breeding this year. They are all being bred to my Red Angus Bull.

1. Little Red - Red Angus X Jersey (3 years old, second calfer, only dam to raise a calf successfully last year, and he's a HUGE calf surprisingly)
2. Stella - Black Angus X Holstein (14 month old bottle calf)
3. Blue - Black Angus X Holstein (14 month old bottle calf)
4. Dolly - Black Angus X Holstein (16 month old bottle calf)
5. Ruby - Black Angus X Holstein (12 month old bottle calf - I was worried she was too young but the vet told me the other day she was good to go, she's cycling and quiet large)
6. Lucy (my jersey, second calfer)

This will be the first year I will pregnancy check them with ultrasound. Its not much more expensive and I need to be better prepared this year. If you remember my cow last year was pregnant we believe 12 months. I should of done better for her.


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## cjc (Oct 13, 2017)

@greybeard one other thing. When the bull was dropped my friend said to me "you have to feed this bull he cant live on grass". None of my cows ever live on just grass alone. I feed grain all year round and hay through the cold seasons. How do you feed bulls? He's in the field with all of the herd. I tried to give him extra grain on his own and I am sure you can imagine how that went . I do that again and someone is gonna ram someone through the fence.


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## greybeard (Oct 13, 2017)

cjc said:


> When the bull was dropped my friend said to me "you have to feed this bull he cant live on grass". None of my cows ever lived on grass alone. I feed grain all year round and hay through the cold seasons.



How old is this bull?
I imagine he was just trying to emphasize that a young bull in development needs more than just grass to get to his full potential and once you turn him in to breed your herd, will need more energy than just grass alone provides.
Maybe he didn't understand or know your level of experience or expertise in getting a bull ready for the breeding season.
I've never had any problem with any of my yearling or mature bulls not getting their share of groceries..they always push the females off feed and not the other way around.


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## farmerjan (Oct 14, 2017)

Agree with greybeard, I think it was just to let you know that as a young bull, growing, that he needs a little grain to keep his weight on while he is paying more attention to girls and expending all those extra calories.  A young bull can easily drop weight because he is more interested in chasing around the girls.  I wouldn't worry about trying to feed him separately, just watch and make sure he pushes his way in there to get a share.  Since most all the girls are young, he should do fine.  If they were big old cows, sometimes they will exert their dominance and push a young bull around, but your heifers should do fine.

Since Lucy did not turn out to be a very good momma or a nurse cow, then a family that needs a milk cow would be good.  Some are good nurse cows, some aren't.  I have a jersey that is not wanting to be a nurse cow, but she  is going to raise these 2 and then go.  She was a 3 teat cow the first time which I knew, since one quarter had been infected and blew out the side, I bought her for pound price and she was bred AI and had a nice heifer calf.  This year she only has 2 good teats.  So the udder is shot and she is of no real good use.  She will accept her calf and the 2nd one when she comes in the barn, mostly without too much fighting me, but she will probably never take them in the field.  She also doesn't have much milk but to look at her udder it is beautiful.  Real shame but that's part of it.  If I hadn't already gotten the second calf to put on her, I might have just shipped her but will get through the next couple of months with her.  I milked her last year, with her having just her calf on her, but she never set any records then either.  Just one of those things.  She will go when her time is up.

Ultrasound pregnancy checking is pretty popular here, but it would not have prevented what happened to your shorthorn cow last year.  Most all ultrasound is done anywhere from 30 to 90 days.  They can tell the sex usually at about 50-75 days.  Many of my registered breeders will do that so they have an idea of the sex of the calves to expect but it is still not 100%.  After a cow gets so far along, it is next to impossible to tell more than she is pregnant or not.  They might have tried ultrasound to see the problems she was having but I really am not sure it would have helped her.  That was just one of those terrible tragedies.

I know that you like your cows to be friendly and easy to work with, but making them too much of a pet is not always in your best interest.  You get too attached and then when the time comes that they have to go, and for the reasons that they really are being raised for, it is too hard to do.  You can have a pet or two but overall, they are there to produce a calf that will either be sold or will be a replacement  for another cow that has to be sold.  I have buried a few over the years that have more than paid for their retirement....but for the most part they are there to help provide a livelihood for me.

It is not in your best interest to raise up a bull calf to be a herd sire. For the most part, you would be too close to him emotionally, and make him too familiar, and they often make for a more aggressive bull.  Buy what you need to get the cows bred, or even find someone you can rent/lease a bull from for a breeding season, and keep him 90 days or so then send him off.  

Hope all goes well with getting the girls bred.


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## Rammy (Apr 4, 2018)

cjc said:


> Thanks for all this great info @greybeard @farmerjan. I know about zero when it comes to bulls! I will ask my friend about all this stuff. He’s a big Cattle raiser in our area (500 head). I just trust him with what he gives me but this bull is from auction. And he owns the auction so...the circle goes around . He did give me the bull last year that through me that 200lb deformed calf. He wanted me to raise short horns still but im taking a break and trying Angus! I don’t like the Angus temperament but they sell easiest in our parts. People just want a solid black or red calf it seems.
> 
> @farmerjan @babsbag baby is doing well thank you! He will be 5 months on the 26th. It’s definitely slowed down my cow activities but he’s been great. He’s a big boy! 18lbs already so lugging him around the farm is hurting my back!  He has an obsession with animals though...it was bound to happen.
> 
> ...



Just found this post. What a cutie pie!! Can everyone say awwww.........? Nice looking bull. I thought about keeping one of the heifers Im raising and maybe getting her bred when she's ready. Start raising my own beef. Then again, maybe not. 

Rammy


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