# Still learning...while trying to control this addiction!!



## Dogma (Mar 26, 2016)

Happy Easter my friends, 
Ginger and Nutmeg are doing great and since they did not give us any babies..we decided to purchase some!! Last weekend we went to view a closed/tested herd and came home with two beautiful 8 week old does and two handsome 8 week wethers.. We are keeping them separate and slowly introducing them. So far nutmeg  loves them.. Ginger is ok.. A head butt here and there. I assume this is normal?!
 Question time???
Should I pull the boys off grain completely?! If so, do I wean?! They are eating the second cutting orchard grass/Timothy very well  
What about does?! Do they need grain?! They are 15-20 pounds right now and I will weigh them weekly to be sure they are gaining .. 
Are they ok to all live together?! 
Anything I need to know?! They were vaccinated for CD&T and they look happy and healthy. I will get a fecal to the vet soon.. 
They are a little skiddish but slowly coming around with a shake can fill of goat treats, anything else I can use?! I read raisins?!? 
I'm just nervous and want to have happy and healthy goats!! Next year I want to breed the older girls and have babies and milk  I can see it now...I've gone goat crazy!!!  
Thank you as always for all of the help and guidance!!! I'd be lost without you all


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## norseofcourse (Mar 26, 2016)

Congrats on the new goats!  I'll let goat people answer the food questions.  If they only had one CD-T, they'll need a second one about 2 or 3 weeks after the first, then it's just once a year.


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## Dogma (Mar 26, 2016)

norseofcourse said:


> Congrats on the new goats!  I'll let goat people answer the food questions.  If they only had one CD-T, they'll need a second one about 2 or 3 weeks after the first, then it's just once a year.


Thank you. They have had the series of two... Just need to do rabies after 12 weeks I was told.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 26, 2016)

Dogma said:


> Should I pull the boys off grain completely?! If so, do I wean?!


Not sure I understand when you say wean... are they on bottles? 
No- keep them on grain 1/4- 1/2 cup and hay and water
The feed is more to help with nutritional balance... small amount is fine.



Dogma said:


> What about does?! Do they need grain?!


Same as the wethers 1/4 - 1/2 cup and increase as they age and get bigger to about 1 cup a day. Hay and water.

Loose minerals for all.



Dogma said:


> Are they ok to all live together?!



Yes, but I am a big believer in quarantining. 
Quarantine allows for you to have fecals run and treatments if necessary. Also if there is and respiratory from transport... and it is good overall practice.


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## Dogma (Mar 26, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Not sure I understand when you say wean... are they on bottles?
> No- keep them on grain 1/4- 1/2 cup and hay and water
> The feed is more to help with nutritional balance... small amount is fine.
> 
> ...


Thank you... They are not on bottles.. I was asking if I have to take boys off grain totally, do I slowly decrease?! But I will keep them on as recommended. I appreciate your help. 
Is 30 days common for quarantine ?


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 26, 2016)

People who purchase wethers from me I recommend they give a balanced feed until they are 8 months old
So I would gradually increase the feed to about a cup when they are 4 months old
Then at 8 months old decrease the feed and transition to alfalfa pellets

Then free choice grass hay and instead of feed a cup of alfalfa pellets is how people we know feed wethers
Make sure you give them the mineral that has ammonium chloride


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## Southern by choice (Mar 26, 2016)

OFA's schedule is a good one. We don't do alfalfa pellets because ours get alfalfa hay or chaffhaye... the feed is more for balance.

The ammonium chloride  is important ( it is in our feed as well as mineral) . Very important for wethers.

Yes 30 day quarantine is normal... for older goats we do 60 day.

If the kids have a bloom of parasites (not likely at their age) or cocci which is more likely, you don't want that all over your property and you want to treat this before mixing goats. Respiratory can happen from transit and will be better handled by containing.


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## Latestarter (Mar 26, 2016)

There's a difference between alfalfa pellets, feed, and grain...  Where boys are concerned, from what I understand, grain should be a "treat only" kinda thing, and then a minimum amount (Excepting the herd sire during breeding season, if you give him some to keep him strong). The feed is for during the main growth period, the alfalfa pellets (and or feed) are a maintenance thing for adults if they need more than the hay and browse alone are giving them to keep a good body profile. Most male goats should be OK, do just fine, on a decent quality hay, free choice (plus the minerals, etc. of course).


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## Goat Whisperer (Mar 26, 2016)

While they are growing it is best to to give a little something as OFA & Southern have already said 



Latestarter said:


> Most male goats should be OK, do just fine, on a decent quality hay, free choice (plus the minerals, etc. of course).


This really depends on the goat and the genetics. Some goats get fat off air others need some help.


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## babsbag (Mar 26, 2016)

I am the odd man out. My boys get only alfalfa. No grain, no pellet feed, nada. Alfalfa, loose minerals, and of course water. I have only bucks, no wethers, but I would put ammonium chloride in the minerals if I had a wether.


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## Dogma (Mar 27, 2016)

Thank you all for your help... The new kids came on a diet of "sweet feed" which was grain, cracked corn and BOSS.. I feed the older goats Noble Goat.. So I mixed their feed they came with in with the Noble goat.. I'm out of their food...should I mix in the cracked corn and BOSS with the Noble goat, or switch to a different brand/feed?! Maybe i am using the wrong terms.. Is grain/feed different?! There is so much to learn!! And I appreciate all of your help. I'm feeling overwhelmed!! But will continue to read and research. Is there an article on what to watch for?! Symptoms of UC? A specific brand?! Medicated feed for boys?! Thank you


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## Goat Whisperer (Mar 27, 2016)

If you are going to keep them on a feed, I would keep them on the un-medicated noble goat pellets, no sweet feed. It already has AC in it and if you feed the manna pro goat minerals that has it as well. If you aren't feeding the minerals mentioned, go look at the bag and see if it has any in it, many goat mineral contains the AC. 

I will send you a a few articles when I'm able. It can be hard doing it off the mobile site so it might be later. 

I generally try to stay off the BOSS subject on this forum, people can get vicious about it 

BOSS is very bad for bucks and wethers! The C: Ph is way out of range and is probably the most likely thing that would give your boys UC. People talk about the grain causing UC, but I never see UC caused by a well balanced feed with AC added to it. Why? Because it was formulated to prevent UC! 

I have seen this over the years, people don't want to feed the boys in fear of getting UC but never look of the C: P of the hay or the "treats". People always forget these 2 things until the goat is already sick with UC.


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## Dogma (Mar 27, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> If you are going to keep them on a feed, I would keep them on the un-medicated noble goat pellets, no sweet feed. It already has AC in it and if you feed the manna pro goat minerals that has it as well. If you aren't feeding the minerals mentioned, go look at the bag and see if it has any in it, many goat mineral contains the AC.
> 
> I will send you a a few articles when I'm able. It can be hard doing it off the mobile site so it might be later.
> 
> ...


They have manna pro minerals free choice and baking soda. I will read my noble goat bag. I didn't think it said medicated but will look into it.  I appreciate the help.  I love them and don't want to harm them. I have them quarantined in the barn so they won't be out to browse for another few weeks. I must run decals and get them vet checked.  Just a nervous mommy.


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## Goat Whisperer (Mar 27, 2016)

If you want the AC to work, take away that baking soda! It will make the AC ineffective. 

If the bag says it medicated it will be for cocci.


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## Dogma (Mar 27, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> If you want the AC to work, take away that baking soda! It will make the AC ineffective.
> 
> If the bag says it medicated it will be for cocci.


Oh ok. Ill remove the baking soda!!!


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## Dogma (Apr 9, 2016)

Update...
The vet was out, says everyone looks great!!! All fecal samples clean!!! Started the thin goat on zinc for a week. I'm one happy goat momma.


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## Latestarter (Apr 9, 2016)

Sweet! Any new additions to the herd?  Can you share some pic updates pls?


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## Dogma (Apr 9, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Sweet! Any new additions to the herd?  Can you share some pic updates pls?


No new additions since the babies three weeks ago   Lol. They are so wonderful.


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## Dogma (May 19, 2016)




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## Ferguson K (May 19, 2016)




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## Latestarter (May 19, 2016)

They look great! Happy goats; happy goat momma!


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## Sandy christen (Jun 23, 2016)

What is boss.  Sorry I'm new still


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## Southern by choice (Jun 23, 2016)

BOSS is Black oil sunflower seeds.
Maybe a nice treat but in wethers not a good idea to give daily as the Calcium Phosphorus ratio is way off. Too much phosphorus can cause stones / Urinary Calculi.

You want a minimum of 2 to 1 Ca - Ph up to 4-1


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## Sandy christen (Jun 23, 2016)

Thank you


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 4, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> If you want the AC to work, take away that baking soda! It will make the AC ineffective.
> 
> If the bag says it medicated it will be for cocci.



I know this is an older post, but I have been wondering about that, too! It makes sense- the amonium chloride's job is to make the urine acidic, the baking soda- the rumen alkaline. Why feed both together? It didn't make sense to me. I have asked my vet and another breeder, and they both said to feed the baking soda, too!

I'm glad someone else thinks this, too!

I'm not (that) crazy after all.


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 4, 2016)

Here is my theory on baking soda and urinary calculi- please correct any misinformation:

The point of ammonium chloride is to make the buck's/wether's urine acidic so certain minerals liquify, right? 

Well everybody has baking soda out for their goats because they want to prevent bloat, laminitis etc, I know. But, couldn't doing that cause the buck's urine to allow certain minerals to harden, therefore increasing chances for uc?

And everybody blaims grain or alfalfa for urinary calculi, when really it is the improper calcium/ phosphorus ratio!


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