# Inbreeding question. Lots of questions



## porkchop48 (May 8, 2012)

I have lost two kids this year so far. 

One born  premature and stillborn.  I think still born anyways.  I was not there for the birth and am / was not sure how you tell. 

The second was born on Sunday afternoon and died Tuesday morning. 

Both were purbred Alpines. The mother were also sisters and a little on the small side but not tiny by any means. 

They were both bred to their father. I know there is going to be many different answers. Some people say line breeding is ok. Some people call it inbreeding and it causes problems. 

So lets hear some opinions... Is the inbreeding/ linebreeding the problem? 

I am now deciding if I should keep my buck or not? He makes beautiful babies ( as I can see from my two nubians kids).  I have wanted to get a boer buck for a while now. I was considering keeping my current buck and a new boer, is it doable?  Will they kill each other?

EDIT - Just did some reading and it answered some of my questions about the line breeding inbreeding thing.


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## mama24 (May 8, 2012)

Well, I think if the moms you have are related to the buck, then that may be causing problems. If they are unrelated, it is probably ok. But if you are seeing things you don't like, then stop inbreeding! I have a doe who was bred to her dad. But her mom was a totally different breed, so they were completely unrelated.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 8, 2012)

We have bred daughter to father several times, due to not having a new buck. and the kids were always healthy and normal. Since we are a meat operation, we just sell them to market, we aren't line-breeding for genetic purposes. 

I would look into mineral problems or one of the kidding diseases.  Tetracyclene is normally used to treat when abortions, or weak kids are a problem.


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## mama24 (May 8, 2012)

I just reread your post. Premature birth would not be caused by inbreeding or line breeding. There is something going on with the girls that has nothing to do with the buck, other than he may have contributed to genetics causing problems with their wombs, though it is more likely due to some sort of infection or mineral deficiency, like 20kids pointed out.


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## ksalvagno (May 8, 2012)

Do you feed kelp? I had a bad year last year of losing kids. I took a good hard look at my feeding program and made some changes. One of the things I did was add free choice kelp. I also copper bolused more throughout the year. All my kids were born nice and strong this year.  You can buy kelp at Ohio Earth Food in Hartville. Not sure how close it is to you but a 50 lb bag of kelp runs $57.10 with tax. Hartville also has their Hartville Market which is nice to walk through so you could make a day or afternoon of it.


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## porkchop48 (May 8, 2012)

mama24 said:
			
		

> Well, I think if the moms you have are related to the buck, then that may be causing problems. If they are unrelated, it is probably ok. But if you are seeing things you don't like, then stop inbreeding! I have a doe who was bred to her dad. But her mom was a totally different breed, so they were completely unrelated.


I am a little confused on this comment.   The doe was bred to her dad, but yet they were "completely unrelated"? How does that work?

As for the " then stop inbreeding"  This was two seperate does bred once. Not mutpile breedings to the same doe.  It is not something I have been doing over and over. I am just tryng to figure out if it may have been then problem. This line breeding/ inbreeding. 


I do not feed kelp. I have not really read much about it but will look into it now. Can you tell me a little about the benefits of it?

I am not 100% the still born was premature. Comparing to the size of the one I just lost it was about the same size.  I did not look it over extremely well. It had teeth but not all the way through. White hoofs but not sure what that means.


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## ksalvagno (May 8, 2012)

Kelp has minerals and vitamins in it. Just seems to round out my loose goat minerals.

What sex were the kids that didn't survive?


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## hcppam (May 8, 2012)

porkchop48 said:
			
		

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I am a confused by completely unrelated too?


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## porkchop48 (May 8, 2012)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Kelp has minerals and vitamins in it. Just seems to round out my loose goat minerals.
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> What sex were the kids that didn't survive?


One buckling and one doe.   It is heartbreaking to listen to the mom out there crying for her doe.  Makes me cry 

Still thinking I should have done more or something sooner.


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## redtailgal (May 8, 2012)

hcppam said:
			
		

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I think that it was meant that sire and the dam of the doe were unrelated.  The kid was bred back to the sire, but that same kid was out of a dam that was not related to the sire.


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## mama24 (May 9, 2012)

I said the mom of the doe bred to her dad was completely unrelated to the buck. How is that confusing?


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## porkchop48 (May 9, 2012)

mama24 said:
			
		

> I said the mom of the doe bred to her dad was completely unrelated to the buck. How is that confusing?


The way you wrote it out did not come out the way to me. 

 "I have a doe who was bred to her dad." See the confusion?


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## mama24 (May 10, 2012)

porkchop48 said:
			
		

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But the sentence you are saying was confusing was this one: 


> But her mom was a totally different breed, so they were completely unrelated.


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## Teeah3612 (May 10, 2012)

I am so glad to see this thread!

I am looking at getting two doelings from a friend. My buck and these two doelings have the same sire, but all three have different mothers. Is okay to breed them?


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## ksalvagno (May 10, 2012)

You can but personally would rather see a more distant relationship. Also definitely don't breed any offspring with any relationship to the same genetics. When you choose to breed closely related animals, you should be doing it because they have superior characteristics of the breed and not because it is easier or convenient.


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## porkchop48 (May 10, 2012)

mama24 said:
			
		

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Is it really that important? 

I was confused. So was some one else by the way you worded it.  No big deal. I am sure I have babbled too and confused people. No biggy. 

I said the whole thing confused me. Both sentences. But it does not make a difference.

 I am not continually "inbreeding" my goats.  I have been searching for a new buck regardless of what happen with the two does. It has been on my list for a while I just have not found what I want yet.


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## hcppam (May 10, 2012)

porkchop48 said:
			
		

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Yes that was me. Great thread though, the one doe I am getting has the same grand dam as the buck I wanted to breed her to, not sure if that's good?


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## ksalvagno (May 10, 2012)

That should be ok.


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## SheepGirl (May 10, 2012)

My ram bred his mother, his twin sister, and his maternal half sister as a ram lamb. His sisters were both first time mommas and they both had singles. The half sister had a stillborn and the twin sister had a baby that survived until he was two or three days old. His momma had twins and one died of the same symptoms as the twin sister's lamb. The vet thought it was a selenium deficiency that killed the babies, and that it wasn't due to inbreeding. The surviving baby is my inbred two year old wether, Paulie. So this year, my ram went under the fence and bred his mother (again ), so I'm being extra diligent that my ewe is consuming the minerals she needs. I may get BoSe from my vet; she is due in another 2.5 weeks (if she's bred, which I think she is, because she's gotten gradually bigger over the past couple months). So we'll see how this turns out.


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## hcppam (May 10, 2012)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> That should be ok.


Thank you.


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