# More Hay Questions!



## TXMissy (Dec 31, 2021)

My goats will not eat coastal.  I don't know what to feed my goats. Anyone else in TX know where I can get something different than coastal? And how do I tell if its good? All the hay I see looks dried out. I really dont know anything about hay other than my goats will not eat coastal.
Thanks!


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## hoovesgalore (Dec 31, 2021)

i get Bermuda 2 string from atwoods and russles feed but what they really like is alfalfa that's most of my goat's diet.


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## hoovesgalore (Dec 31, 2021)

and it might just be where you get the hay from some hay is not the best quality.


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## Alaskan (Dec 31, 2021)

The problem might not be that it is coastal...but that it is dried out.

You want hay that looks leafy and green.

This is one reason why good hay storage is so great.  When you do find good hay... buy a bunch of it. 

To find good hay.... ask around.

I would always find who made good hay, then ask to be put on their call list.  They would call me the day that they baled.  I had to run out as soon as they called and load up what I wanted for the year.

One year hay here was really bad...  a horse owner organized a container to be shipped up from Washington state filled with compressed alfalfa square bales.

So...  you need to talk to locals, maybe horse owners since they have to be more careful with hay quality. 

Up here there is also a local Facebook hay only page... so people can get in contact with each other.

In my experience...  buying from a feed store is way higher price,  and usually lower quality.


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## TXMissy (Dec 31, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> The problem might not be that it is coastal...but that it is dried out.
> 
> You want hay that looks leafy and green.
> 
> ...


Yeah.. none of the hay is green except the Timothy which is 23.00 for a compressed bale, but I just might go back to that if I cannot find anything else. Thank you! You are always so helpful!


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 2, 2022)

Honestly, I don't have an answer for you because coastal bermuda hay is the primary hay I feed my goats.  I have found that it is one of the best varieties, particularly for nigerian dwarfs. Mine just do great on it.  I agree with Alaskan, it may be an issue of the quality of the hay you are getting.


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## Mini Horses (Jan 2, 2022)

Definitely quality issue.  Type of Bermuda, cut time, dry time, storage.  I like to use orchard & Alf mixed but only young Alf.   What I have now is so green it looks freeze dried!  They don't leave a blade!  Better not either with cost. 😁


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## Show Sebright (Jan 5, 2022)

TXMissy said:


> My goats will not eat coastal.  I don't know what to feed my goats. Anyone else in TX know where I can get something different than coastal? And how do I tell if its good? All the hay I see looks dried out. I really dont know anything about hay other than my goats will not eat coastal.
> Thanks!


We have the same issues. I’m in Florida and we do alfalfa.


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## 2goatgal (Jan 5, 2022)

Show Sebright said:


> We have the same issues. I’m in Florida and we do alfalfa.


Ditto here. My 2 does are alfalfa addicts BUT, will go into the donkey's manger and eat his coastal, but not if I put it in their stall. Goats are supposed to dislike grasses which is why their preference for the legume, alfalfa. However, the farm I got one of my does from feed their herd rolled coastal and recommended I stick with it. I didn't. I guess if that's all they're exposed to and they're hungry....it sure would be hugely cheaper.


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## simplysouthern22 (Jan 5, 2022)

We offer Rye as free choice to our cows but recently got some good looking Alfalfa from a horse owner out of WI. He gets it shipped down to the FL panhandle and we try to keep a bale of it on hand to offer our dairy girls with their evening concentrates. Agree with trying to link up with a horse owner & figure out what you have available around you & try some out with your goats that might be a good benefit for them at a price you can afford.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 9, 2022)

I agree with everyone that the reason the goats don't like the hay you are feeding is that it is probably dry and not the best quality.  As to getting better quality hay, look around your area and find someone that is selling better quality hay.  Try a bale from different producers and see if they will eat it.  Also, are you feeding in a feeder or on the ground?  Goats don't like eating off the ground.  Any hay that falls to the ground from the feeder is also ignored.  If they walk on the hay or pee on it, you might as well rake it up and put in the garden where it makes good mulch.  Also, if you are feeding them another type of ration as well, they may be refusing the hay in favor of the grain or pelleted feed.  

One problem you will have in TX with getting Alfalfa is that it can't be grown there due to Blister Beetle which is toxic.  It has to be brought in from New Mexico or other states and is expensive.  In California Alfalfa is the most common grown and cheapest.  We feed nothing but alfalfa.  When we had a large herd of dairy goats on test we would buy our Alfalfa by the field.  When we move to the new place in Texas with our sheep flock, we may have to bring a truckload of Alfalfa with us.  I am hoping that we will be able to pasture them for most of the year on Coastal Bermuda so that they will be used to the taste of it when we have to feed it dry during the winter.  We may also have to feed a grain ration to balance the protein levels.


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## Legamin (Jan 10, 2022)

TXMissy said:


> My goats will not eat coastal.  I don't know what to feed my goats. Anyone else in TX know where I can get something different than coastal? And how do I tell if its good? All the hay I see looks dried out. I really dont know anything about hay other than my goats will not eat coastal.
> Thanks!


I brought in about 600lbs of seed for our new pasture this year.  We will overplant with some alfalfa, three varieties of tall stemed drought resistant clover, some oats and ground peas Timothy grass and tall fescue…which is a particular favorite of our goats.  The main thing NOT to neglect is that these sweet babies need lots of fiber.  When you pull weeds..dump them straight in the goat pen! (We bless our three goats with about 240lbs of fresh weeds per day pulled from our garden in Summer) they LOVE twigs, thorns, briars and even bush and tree trimmings (if they are not too oily like Eucalyptus) they NEED woody fiber and crave it.  If they don’t get it they will chew on the wood fence posts.  But they absolutely adore Timothy grass and tall fescue.  Both of these grasses have about 11-12% protein in cut and baled dry form and you can add orchard grass when you can find it on the cheap.  Our hay bill for Winter went from $80 per ton last year to $400+ per ton this year so we expanded out pasture so we can get them out in Spring as soon as possible.  While we have moved from sheep and goats to exclusively pure bred Leicester Longwool sheep the above is our experience from out goats.  you might need to drive north several hours to find a leafy grass that they will tolerate better but if you can only find one kind of hay try buying a ton of raw oats (about $260) and sift it into the hay you can find.  When they eat the oats (first) they will be hungry and go after whatever is in front of them.  Another key thing is very fresh water.  Our goats got really picky and lost weight if I let their water get cloudy.


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## Legamin (Jan 10, 2022)

Ridgetop said:


> I agree with everyone that the reason the goats don't like the hay you are feeding is that it is probably dry and not the best quality.  As to getting better quality hay, look around your area and find someone that is selling better quality hay.  Try a bale from different producers and see if they will eat it.  Also, are you feeding in a feeder or on the ground?  Goats don't like eating off the ground.  Any hay that falls to the ground from the feeder is also ignored.  If they walk on the hay or pee on it, you might as well rake it up and put in the garden where it makes good mulch.  Also, if you are feeding them another type of ration as well, they may be refusing the hay in favor of the grain or pelleted feed.
> 
> One problem you will have in TX with getting Alfalfa is that it can't be grown there due to Blister Beetle which is toxic.  It has to be brought in from New Mexico or other states and is expensive.  In California Alfalfa is the most common grown and cheapest.  We feed nothing but alfalfa.  When we had a large herd of dairy goats on test we would buy our Alfalfa by the field.  When we move to the new place in Texas with our sheep flock, we may have to bring a truckload of Alfalfa with us.  I am hoping that we will be able to pasture them for most of the year on Coastal Bermuda so that they will be used to the taste of it when we have to feed it dry during the winter.  We may also have to feed a grain ration to balance the protein levels.


they will eat only alfalfa if you buy it for them but they will get used to most anything you can get.  My worry with pure alfalfa would be scours and bloat…bloat is more of a sheep thing but one of my goats nearly died of it…put cider vinegar in the water and mixed grain with equal amount of baking soda and he burped and got up and ran around with an hour!  Great advice.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 11, 2022)

In 30 years we have had no problem with bloat from alfalfa, but we don't free feed.  Our goats only got grain lb.:lb. when milking and we weighed our milk.  On the other hand, all our goats were either bred and raised by us or bought in the western US where Alfalfa is the hay of choice.  Since everyone feeds alfalfa here, they were acclimated to it over many generations.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 11, 2022)

When we move to Texas we will have to transfer our sheep to Coastal and pasture.


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## TXMissy (Jan 11, 2022)

I went back to buying compressed bales of Timothy hay. It is more expensive, but I really have no idea where to get "good" coastal hay. It all looks dried out. I don't mind buying timothy though; it is green and they like it and I can afford it since I have a small herd. I also give alfalfa pellets since my doe is feeding her kid. I will eventually stop that. They get pellets too and free range, but the free range is literally our almost acre backyard. There isn't a whole lot for them to eat. I leave some chopped wood that we will use for firewood out for them to eat on. I heard that there is a place that takes Christmas trees so their goats can eat them. I didn't even know they could eat evergreens. What a great idea. I wish I would have thought of that. I am sure I could have gotten some.


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## Legamin (Jan 11, 2022)

Ridgetop said:


> In 30 years we have had no problem with bloat from alfalfa, but we don't free feed.  Our goats only got grain lb.:lb. when milking and we weighed our milk.  On the other hand, all our goats were either bred and raised by us or bought in the western US where Alfalfa is the hay of choice.  Since everyone feeds alfalfa here, they were acclimated to it over many generations.


I shred bales and mix orchard grass, tall fescue, Timothy grass hay about 50% with alfalfa and sprinkle in just a touch of barley straw to condition them to it..(I put the ewes on straight barley straw to dry up milk at weaning time if I am not going to milk them).  I overseeded my pastures with peas, clover and alfalfa and for the first time in my life had one goat and one sheep experience bloat.  I suspect you are correct that over many generations that they can become resistant to bloat from a rich legume diet though I would still think it possible if they were left to feed freely.  I hang my feed in webbing feeder bags to slow them down in Winter.  They are in the barn mostly and once they plow through the feed bin they are bored and have nothing to do.  This way they get a precisely measured amount of food and it takes them many trips back and many cud chewing breaks to work through it.  They are mostly very pregnant now so I am introducing a grain mix. Here in Washington our hay..alfalfa, grass or weeds..went from $80 per tonne to over $400 per tonne after the federal lands were closed to hay producers and grazers on Jan.8th of last year.  So many smaller local animal farms are either closing shop or finding creative sources.  I had to travel 300 miles for the first time ever to get alfalfa at an affordable price…my neighbor across the road grows the best alfalfa in the state but his prices went up with everyone else!  This was a very challenging year..fortunately the auctions brought in record prices for breeding animals which is most of our income.


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## Legamin (Jan 11, 2022)

Ridgetop said:


> When we move to Texas we will have to transfer our sheep to Coastal and pasture.


I just saw this..we are looking at a 240 acre ranch in Tennessee about a couple hours north of Texas (our kids moved to Houston this last year) and I could become my own feed producer…I am in the middle of so many project including our 4th barn building that I’m just not sure how soon I can pull it off.  In the mean time I’m learning as much about the kind of hay that grows best there and the weather and health challenges for my rare breed sheep in that climate.  Good luck with your move!


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## Ridgetop (Jan 11, 2022)

Thank you and with your move.  We have been looking at moving to Texas for 5 years now and finally bought our property.  Learning everything about Texas, its climates, farming, taxes, etc. is essential for a successful move.  We like east Texas because of the availability of water there.  I am 3rd generation southern Californian (San Fernando Valley) and like all good desert dwellers prize water.  LOL

What part of Washington are you in?  We had planned to move to Yelm onto a family piece of land but found out that the city had incorporated it several years previously.  No more than 3 chickens and 2 rabbits on the 5 acres.  Great well, 2 large barns and outbuildings. We had completely rebuit and renovated the little house for my aunt and were looking forward to raising our sheep there BUT !  However, we really love Texas better.

If you are considering Tennessee, you should message @Mike CHS.  He and his wife raise Katahdins in Tennesse on pasture and love it.


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## Legamin (Jan 11, 2022)

Ridgetop said:


> Thank you and with your move.  We have been looking at moving to Texas for 5 years now and finally bought our property.  Learning everything about Texas, its climates, farming, taxes, etc. is essential for a successful move.  We like east Texas because of the availability of water there.  I am 3rd generation southern Californian (San Fernando Valley) and like all good desert dwellers prize water.  LOL
> 
> What part of Washington are you in?  We had planned to move to Yelm onto a family piece of land but found out that the city had incorporated it several years previously.  No more than 3 chickens and 2 rabbits on the 5 acres.  Great well, 2 large barns and outbuildings. We had completely rebuit and renovated the little house for my aunt and were looking forward to raising our sheep there BUT !  However, we really love Texas better.
> 
> If you are considering Tennessee, you should message @Mike CHS.  He and his wife raise Katahdins in Tennesse on pasture and love it.


We’re in Elk, Washington just about 45 min. North of Spokane.  It is an isolated valley of farms with it’s own weather system…cooler in the Summer and warmer in the Winter (except when it’s not).  We were caught by surprise when our kids went on vacation to Houston and came back simply announcing that they had decided to move!  They used their vacation to secure land, get a home building loan, set the contractors to work and then come home for three months and pack and move!  I couldn’t advise them to not do it because while they were growing up we moved over 40 times for my work around the world as a physicist.   I will look up @Mike, thanks for that.  I grew up in San Diego but it’s just not a place I would consider living anymore…sad really as I remember it being so beautiful and clean in my youth.  I returned to go to Uni in RPV and live in Tahoe for a while…last visit was the last time…it was so different that I felt claustrophobic and uncomfortable…and the land prices, taxes, crazy business killing laws…just couldn’t do it! 
We had no idea when we bought our current farm that we would be sitting on a high water table with artesian springs all over the property!  There are 3 springs that broke through into our basement!  We now pump a constant 30,000-80,000 gallons of water out of our basement every day just to keep it dry!  in a. Normal year you can walk out in the bone dry field and dig to find water!  Last year was different but an anomaly.  We have been looking more and more at moving simply because our farm has quintupled in value in the six years we’ve owned it and we can sell and buy far more farm almost anywhere in the US…and at my age a warmer climate is sounding nice!


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## Finnie (Jan 12, 2022)

Legamin said:


> t. I will look up @Mike,


You want @Mike CHS , not that other Mike, who hasn’t been seen since 2012.


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## Mike CHS (Jan 12, 2022)

We live in Middle Tennessee roughly 20 miles from the Alabama border.  Let us know if we can help with your planning.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 12, 2022)

DH's sister and BIL moved to Coeur D'Alene last year.  Apparently, everyone from Spokane drives into CD'A to shop without masks!  LOL   We also are hearing that Spokane and parts of eastern Oregon are petitioning to join the state of Idaho.  My sister and 2 brothers live west of Seattle.    

You will love Texas and Texans!


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## Ridgetop (Jan 12, 2022)

And @Mike CHS and Teresa can give you good information about Tennessee locations.


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## Baymule (Jan 14, 2022)

Legamin said:


> I just saw this..we are looking at a 240 acre ranch in Tennessee about a couple hours north of Texas (our kids moved to Houston this last year) and I could become my own feed producer…



Not to be a spoil sport, but Tennessee is not a couple hours north of Texas. I’m in east Texas, probably 4 hours maybe 5, depending on traffic, from the northern boundary of Houston. It was right at 700 miles to go to Tennessee, just south of Nashville. 

Maybe do a map directions search from the ranch you are looking at, to Houston? Where in Houston do your kids live?


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## Ridgetop (Jan 16, 2022)

Large properties are so appealing.  However, there are some things to consider.

How far from your daughter do you want to be?  Houston to Tennessee is far.
How big is your current place?
What is your age and health?
Do you have experience producing a lot of hay or grain?  
Large production requires either multiple types of expensive machinery or hiring out the                  work to be done.  (Both options cost money)
Large production of hay or grain requires knowledge of growing cycles, fertilizing, and                     mowing/harvesting times in the area.
Large production of hay or grain requires storage facilities.  

When we decided to move to a ranch operation from our 6 acres (with no water which means no pasture) we first thought of Texas.  However, we had bought my Aunt's place in Yelm when she died so we already had a place to move our sheep.  Nice small house completely updated for her by us several years ago, 2 large barns, several good outbuildings, good pasture and a great well.  We would need to put in new fencing but with the other benefits no problem.  It was in a small town, only 20 hours driving time from our 5 children staying in California, and (less important) a few hours from my 2 brothers and sister.  However, we found out that we could no longer keep our sheep on this property since the city had incorporated it into the town borders.  

Back to our Texas plan.  We originally wanted 100+ acres.  Then gradually common sense took over and we realized that we couldn't ranch that many acres anymore.  All the work we had put in over the past 30 years building our current 6 acre property would not be doable in the time left to us at our ages.  

We just bought a 45 acre ranch in northeast Texas.  This will put us far from the 4 children and their families who will remain in California.  Our oldest son will make the move with us.  Moving away from our very close family is a big hardship for us since we see all but one child and his family almost every day.  

In our search for property, we have come to realize that we may not run sheep on the entire 45 acres.  Our more approachable goal is to fence and rotation pasture graze them on 15 of the acres while continuing to rent the rest of the Costal Bermuda pastures out to the cattle rancher who currently rents them.  The alternative is to pay someone to cut it for hay.  Luckily, there are several hay people that specialize in cutting and baling for small producers in the area.  

Another thing we found out when looking at property in Texas is that the same hay is not available is different parts of the country.  In Texas most hay is Coastal Bermuda or Timothy.  No alfalfa because of Blister Beetle.  This changes the way we will be supplementing our flock on pasture.  Also, no feed stores stock hay like they do here in southern California - you have to locate a grower and buy from them.  Probably not much of a problem with 45 acres of pasture, but in the winter Bermuda goes dormant.  We will have to supplement with hay in the winter so will need to locate a grower to buy from.  

If you are looking for a ranch to be near your kids, I suggest you visit them and look around the area to see what is available in both Texas and Tennessee.   Once you find the area you want to be in check for the amenities you need.  I don't mean opera houses and malls, I mean Walmarts, Lowes, churches, shopping, and senior centers to make new friends.  You also need to check out the availability of persons offering services in wells, hay baling, grain sowing and harvesting, machinery repair, feed mills, saleyards or packing houses that will purchase your livestock, etc.  Since you have grown children, you will also want to look into available medical care within driving distance.  Check the distance to main roads and highways to these places since if you are on a system of private roads you may need to plow yourselves out in a snowstorm.

While you know where everything is in your location now (cheap shopping and repair places) remember you will have to find all these locations in the new area as well as make new friends.

We are looking forward to our new adventure - hope you find yours!


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## DeEtta (Jan 17, 2022)

2goatgal said:


> Ditto here. My 2 does are alfalfa addicts BUT, will go into the donkey's manger and eat his coastal, but not if I put it in their stall. Goats are supposed to dislike grasses which is why their preference for the legume, alfalfa. However, the farm I got one of my does from feed their herd rolled coastal and recommended I stick with it. I didn't. I guess if that's all they're exposed to and they're hungry....it sure would be hugely cheaper.


Florida here too. Girls didn't care for coastal but they love Brome. I do feed a small amount of alphalfa pellets in the winter when pasture is not so green.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 17, 2022)

I figure if they are hungry they will adapt.  Will probably bring some alfalfa with us when we move and mix it with the coastal at first.  Dorpers are known for being able to live on "sand and rocks" as the association brags so I don't anticipate much of a problem.


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