# Can Anyone Guess what This Breed Could be?



## mojomamma (Feb 17, 2012)

I just got her today. I know her dad was a pygmy, mom a mix of something. She is a FF. She did not know when she is due. She is starting to develop a nice little udder and has baby bumps. Her rear looks puffy...Does she look skinny around her hip area?Would really appreciate your thoughts. http://www.flickr.com/photos/56821819@N06/6894104755


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## Queen Mum (Feb 17, 2012)

She is definitely a goat.  Female for sure.   Cute and kind of white.  Other than that I would say Heinza.


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## Missy (Feb 18, 2012)

I almost want to say she looks like she may have Saanen in her..


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## mojomamma (Feb 18, 2012)

I bought her with the understanding she was a brush goat! I bought her in hopes that I could get some milk, so keeping my fingers crossed. Her bag filled out in a major way overnight! I just hope she is not to skinny, its her first time.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 18, 2012)

You're going to want her in better flesh, especially if you plan to milk.  If I purchased a bred doe in that condition I would begin drying her off right after kidding.  They strip a lot of reserves in the first few weeks after kidding, and if they don't have reserves they will end up really run down.  You're in a tricky position though because if she is already building an udder then she is not more than 6 weeks out.  Pushing a doe to gain condition in the last 30 days of gestation when those kids are doing most of their growing can result in enormous kids.  At the very least feed her to maintain her condition through the last month of gestation (she will strip to grow those babies if she's not getting enough calories) and if she's an easy keeper you can start putting weight on her when her production levels out.  With her probably not being a heavy producer and also being a first freshener you might be able to get by without drying her off.  Just feed for metabolic balance so you're not looking at hypocalcemia or ketosis and monitor her condition carefully.  But personally I wouldn't be planning to milk a ff in her body condition for an extended period.


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## mojomamma (Feb 18, 2012)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> You're going to want her in better flesh, especially if you plan to milk.  If I purchased a bred doe in that condition I would begin drying her off right after kidding.  They strip a lot of reserves in the first few weeks after kidding, and if they don't have reserves they will end up really run down.  You're in a tricky position though because if she is already building an udder then she is not more than 6 weeks out.  Pushing a doe to gain condition in the last 30 days of gestation when those kids are doing most of their growing can result in enormous kids.  At the very least feed her to maintain her condition through the last month of gestation (she will strip to grow those babies if she's not getting enough calories) and if she's an easy keeper you can start putting weight on her when her production levels out.  With her probably not being a heavy producer and also being a first freshener you might be able to get by without drying her off.  Just feed for metabolic balance so you're not looking at hypocalcemia or ketosis and monitor her condition carefully.  But personally I wouldn't be planning to milk a ff in her body condition for an extended period.


Thank you, that is some great information and advice!


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## Queen Mum (Feb 18, 2012)

I don't agree.  I think if you go easy on her and feed her good hay, alfalfa and good grain (go light on the grain at first, though - no more than once a day till she kids), you can condition her well before she kids.  You might want milk only in the morning starting when the kids are 2 to 3 weeks old and then let her nurse the rest of the day.  Or bottle feed the babies.

Make sure she has top quality minerals, (free choice),  worm right after kidding, have baking soda free choice, give her kelp free choice.  You might want to supplement with some Chaff hay prior to kidding.  

After she kids give her some calcium (cal mag) for a couple days after kidding.  

Be sure she has her CD/T shots and a BoSe shot now.

Also, you might check her tail, if it looks fish tailed give her some copper.  (copasure)


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 18, 2012)

Pushing an underconditioned doe to gain a lot of weight in the last 30 days before she kids could give you a little padding and enormous kids.  She's going to be putting most of those calories into rapidly growing fetuses.  Getting a little extra flesh on a doe in good condition is one thing, but asking a skinny doe to gain enough weight to function as a milker without ending up skeletal after early lactation is another proposition all together.  Good quality hay, plenty of alfalfa, and a reasonable amount of grain is what it's going to take a doe in late gestation/early lactation to maintain metabolic balance alone.  I'd want a doe to have better reserves before asking her to produce for an extended period.


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## Queen Mum (Feb 18, 2012)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> Pushing an underconditioned doe to gain a lot of weight in the last 30 days before she kids could give you a little padding and enormous kids.  She's going to be putting most of those calories into rapidly growing fetuses.  Getting a little extra flesh on a doe in good condition is one thing, but asking a skinny doe to gain enough weight to function as a milker without ending up skeletal after early lactation is another proposition all together.  Good quality hay, plenty of alfalfa, and a reasonable amount of grain is what it's going to take a doe in late gestation/early lactation to maintain metabolic balance alone.  I'd want a doe to have better reserves before asking her to produce for an extended period.


You are misunderstanding me. You are reading WAY more into my post than necessary.  

I am suggesting that she condition the goat for good health. Nor am I suggesting that she "push" the goat.  

What I am suggesting will NOT give her ENORMOUS kids.  It will give her healthy kids.  In fact, my suggestions follow ALL the recommendations for good prekidding nutrition and conditioning for ALL pregnant does in ANY condition on this site and Fias Co Farms website.    

The goat doesn't look all that bad. She doesn't look emaciated.  She doesn't even look really all that underweight from the picture.  If the goat was emaciated I would agree with you, about drying her up but she is NOT emaciated.  She looks a LITTLE under condition.  And she needs to be conditioned to be healthy not gain weight.  

She will gain weight naturally if she needs it.  And she will be healthy if she has good nutrition.  PERIOD.  

And if she is in good health, she will be fine to produce a reasonable amount of milk to feed her babies  and produce a reasonable amount of milk.  PERIOD.  She can supplement the babies with a morning feeding of part Goats milk and supplement or cows milk and still be nursing her kids in the afternoon.


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## mojomamma (Feb 19, 2012)

Here is another pic of her from the front, thanks everyone!
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/wildflowerwax/IMG_2462.jpg


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## mojomamma (Feb 19, 2012)

Here is a pic of her udder, she is a FF, we suspect she is due sometime in the next couple of weeks. I saw a clear mucous string about 4 inches long yesterday and can feel the baby moving. So excited!!!
http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/wildflowerwax/IMG_2459.jpg


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## enolderman (Feb 20, 2012)

Wow I think she looks great but she doesn't look big. We just had this experience and our goat was large around the belly and back end. I look forward to seeing your new baby!


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## mojomamma (Feb 20, 2012)

I talked to the lady I got her from and she was giving her bermuda hay with a little alfalfa hay( she said to much alfalfa gave them the runs) She also gave her purina noble pellets. This goat is crazy she loves banana's and the peel gobbled it down! So I named her banana She is hardly eating any hay and she is not grazing hardly at all, just mainly standing around unless I give her the grain( Dumor sweet feed). I am scared that she is starving The nigerian dwarf that is supposed to be her friend cannot stand her and is butting at her when she tries to eat, so I have to tie the nigerian up to get something in banana. I tried seperating them and they completely freak out, so I am not sure what to do now.,... She is very close to labor and started having some clear mucous 2 days ago.


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## Queen Mum (Feb 20, 2012)

She is really cute!  I love the name. 

Goats LOVE bananas and oranges.  They also like dried Banana peels and dried orange peels.  They also like peanuts and raisins.  (go easy on them.)  Keep trying.  She's just not used to her food yet.  And the other goat is just showing her dominance and establishing herd order.

The clear mucous can go on for a long time before birth.  Weeks even.  Keep feeding her.  She will pick up.  Does she have browse?


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## mojomamma (Feb 20, 2012)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> She is really cute!  I love the name.
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> Goats LOVE bananas and oranges.  They also like dried Banana peels and dried orange peels.  They also like peanuts and raisins.  (go easy on them.)  Keep trying.  She's just not used to her food yet.  And the other goat is just showing her dominance and establishing herd order.
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> The clear mucous can go on for a long time before birth.  Weeks even.  Keep feeding her.  She will pick up.  Does she have browse?


Thank you! She does have plenty to browse on, I have a 1 acre backyard with grass, tons of leaves, brush, weeds, she is just showing no interest right now. This is the 4th day we have had her. She just follows the other goat everywhere it goes, but stays a few feet away. When I went to pick her up the lady had TONS of goats in a huge pasture, they went into a big barn at night. The herd of goats I picked her from were basically brush goats and not handled often. She also said that these goats always have 1 on their first birth, she has never seen twins and has been doing this for 10 years! They kid there babies out in the pasture usually during the day and nurse for 3 months. WHen they are ready to kid they usually go as far as they can from their bedding and food area , So this is different than what I have read about! She was bred to a nigerian, which was the only male out of about 40 does.


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## Queen Mum (Feb 20, 2012)

That may be why she isn't eating a lot of hay.  She is used to eating in the pasture.  And it may be why she looks thinner than you are used to.  She doesn't know the food.  She is in a strange area, with strange food and strange people and now  strange new herd.     Since she is staying away from the other goat, but staying "with" the other goat, that means that she is getting to know her place.    And it sounds like things are pretty Normal for her.  She is just used to a LOT of goats and now she is around only ONE other goat.  

*RELAX, it really does sound like things are going well. You are doing GREAT with her.  She will take time to adjust.*   When I got my first goats, they did the same thing.  But get her the minerals and some kelp and baby her a bit.  She will be happy as a clam before you know it.   And if she has a single baby on her first time, it will likely be a big baby.  When she gets really close, if you have a kidding pen, put her in it so you can assist if she needs it.  (big single babies often need some help.)


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 21, 2012)

My opinion is that she is underconditioned.  Even for a dry/open doe, but especially for a doe in late gestation.  Be sure she is getting enough calcium (alfalfa or other legume) in her diet.  Rapid growth means kids require a lot of calcium in the last 30 days of pregnancy.  Be sure you have CMPK on hand in case she does go hypocalcemic.  It's something you should always have in your medicine chest.


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## Goatherd (Feb 21, 2012)

http://goats.wetpaint.com/page/Hypocalcemia+-+CMPK+Kitchen+Recipe



> Be sure you have CMPK on hand in case she does go hypocalcemic.  It's something you should always have in your medicine chest.


n.smithurmond, what's your opinion on this?  Thanks.


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## mojomamma (Feb 21, 2012)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> My opinion is that she is underconditioned.  Even for a dry/open doe, but especially for a doe in late gestation.  Be sure she is getting enough calcium (alfalfa or other legume) in her diet.  Rapid growth means kids require a lot of calcium in the last 30 days of pregnancy.  Be sure you have CMPK on hand in case she does go hypocalcemic.  It's something you should always have in your medicine chest.


The only hay I have is Bermuda, will that work? What is CMPK?(sorry I'm a newbie  I am pretty sure she is less than 2 weeks away, I will get a pooch shot tomorrow, her belly looks like it has dropped some...


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## mojomamma (Feb 21, 2012)

mojomamma said:
			
		

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OH! nevermind, I just found your link! Thanks!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 22, 2012)

I've never used oral CMPK and prefer not to drench.  I keep injectable CMPK on hand at all times.  With a properly balanced diet there is a good chance you won't need it, but it's good insurance.  It's Rx only and around $4 for a huge bottle.

Bermuda and other grass hays are not a substitute for calcium rich legumes.  They are high in phosphorous just like grains.  Keep in mind you need to keep Ca balanced in order for them to be able to properly metabolize calcium.  Here in the South consistently good alfalfa hay is hard to come by, so we feed coastal plus around 1 lbs of alfalfa pellets per head per day (keep in mind these are NDs, not standards- our LM eats double that amount.)  Our late gestation and early lactation does get essentially as much alfalfa pellets as they can eat twice daily.  There is no waste with pellets and the quality is consistent.  But if I lived further North and had access to good alfalfa hay it's what we'd be feeding.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 22, 2012)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> My opinion is that she is underconditioned.  Even for a dry/open doe, but especially for a doe in late gestation.  Be sure she is getting enough calcium (alfalfa or other legume) in her diet.  Rapid growth means kids require a lot of calcium in the last 30 days of pregnancy.  Be sure you have CMPK on hand in case she does go hypocalcemic.  It's something you should always have in your medicine chest.


just to jump in and give another opinion, I agree with smithurmond,  She is undercondition and if you shaved off her hair and then she kidded, I think you will be surprised how thin she looks afterwards. I wouldn't just start shoveling tons of feed to her at this point, as it has been suggested. 

I would also suggest getting a fecal done and looking into worming her and coccidiosis treatment based on the fecal.   


And putting out some loose goat minerals for her if that hasn't already been suggested.


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## Queen Mum (Feb 22, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

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Gee whiz, I wonder who suggested shoveling tons of feed at her.  I sure didn't.  I suggested giving her minerals and BoSe and CD/T shots other supplements.  SO I didn't read anywhere that anyone give her TONS of feed.  AND I don't think she is all that thin either.     

HMMM.


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## mojomamma (Feb 22, 2012)

I think she is about to go into labor. I saw the mucous plug a week ago, today she is very vocal where usually she doesn't make any noise, she has dropped even more, her backside is really swollen and I saw her curling her upper lip? She has had her sweet feed this morning, a banana, some molasses water, but really seems restless. I also bought them some free minerals and have them out in a little dish the last couple of days.


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## redtailgal (Feb 22, 2012)

Do you know how to check her ligaments?

Roll's Farms wrote this page .  It has some pretty good info on it for us newbs.  I'm not sure if her being thin will affect how the ligaments feel or not, maybe Roll's will chime in with an answer to that.



Dont forget......we like newborn pics!

She is a pretty girl and I am sure that her baby(s) is/are gonna be just as pretty!

If you will go to the following link and scroll down a little, there are links to pages with a wealth of education on goats!

http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2952-important-links


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 22, 2012)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

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Your being sensitive, My suggestion of not shoveling tons of feed at her, was directed at the OP, so she wouldnt' panic and hear a couple of us saying we think she looks thin, and start loading her up with grain. It was not at all directed towards anything you said, I didn't even read most of the posts. But I did get the fact that you don't think she looks all that thin. You are cerrtainly allowed to have your opinion. the Op will have to decide for herself which way to go. That is the beauty of more than one opinion and it being a public forum. 

Back to the thread and the fact she is maybe in labor.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 22, 2012)

mojomamma said:
			
		

> I think she is about to go into labor. I saw the mucous plug a week ago, today she is very vocal where usually she doesn't make any noise, she has dropped even more, her backside is really swollen and I saw her curling her upper lip? She has had her sweet feed this morning, a banana, some molasses water, but really seems restless. I also bought them some free minerals and have them out in a little dish the last couple of days.


 

Can't wait to see baby pictures.


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## mojomamma (Feb 22, 2012)

Okay....So I'm not feeling any ligaments tonight!!! That is, if I am doing it correctly. Yesterday it felt like two soft pencils, now I can't find anything, her tail has raised up some. It's so darn hard with this goat, she REALLY does not want me touching on her :/


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## Queen Mum (Feb 22, 2012)

Babies, babies, babies, babies.  PICTURES, PICTURES, PICTURES.


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## mojomamma (Feb 25, 2012)

Bananas Ligaments are completely gone and bag is strutted! I took pictures today and posted a new thread here...
http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=210775#p210775


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