# finally found out what is killing my goats.



## nightshade (Sep 6, 2009)

Well after three weeks and losing half my herd I finally found out what is killing my goats. Your never gonna believe this.... snails.   It has been so wet that they are like every where, tiny little orange or black shelled snails. And I was just told yesterday when I had a goat dieing that they can kill a goat in hours if they accidentally eat them. All the more reason to drowned them in beer if you ask me.  Luckily we saved Amos but so many were not so lucky and I am just devastated.  

It was horrible and frankly they were my friends and I don't know if I can keep going through this. I honestly don't know if I am gonna replace them in the spring or not. Hubby says it is part of being a farmer and having animals. I tell him that is why I tell everyone I am not a farmer, cause I care to damn much.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 6, 2009)

WOW, never heard of such a thing! We have several snails!!
Do you have a link to this info? 
Good thing you figured it out!


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## DonnaBelle (Sep 6, 2009)

I am very sorry for your loss, I have lots of animals and feel personally responsible for all of them.....

Having said that, please don't let this discourage you...  I guess your husband is right, and as my brother told me, if you have animals you will have losses and heartbreak.  His favorite stud horse hung himself because my brother left a harness on him and the horse got it caught on a hinge on his stall door.  He still hasn't forgiven himself.... But he has gotten a new stud horse.  It can be so sad.  anyway I posted to let you know someone is thinking of you tonight.

DonnaBelle


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## nightshade (Sep 6, 2009)

trestlecreek said:
			
		

> WOW, never heard of such a thing! We have several snails!!
> Do you have a link to this info?
> Good thing you figured it out!


sorry no link I found out through an Amish buddy who has been seeing it go around. But  google may provide some info on it. I am just looking more into it myself because I have never heard of such a thing either. 

I called my FIL to get his opinion since he has been around the farm his whole life and he agreed. The wet weather has been really bad for bugs and parasites this year. Snails  being just one of the things flourishing in the extra dampness.  And one of the MANY things that can kill goats or other grazing animals quickly. But he was alittle skeptical until  I told him that I have been finding snails by the hundreds around the goat fence and where they free range during the day now that I am looking for them. At that point he agreed with the Amish Man that the goats are eating them accidentally and getting poisoned by them. So everyone is on strict pasture arrest and eating nothing that has not been checked carefully first. No problems since. But I will keep ya posted as I learn more find out what exactly the snails have to do with it.


edited to add -
okay so far I can find nothing on google. Maybe it is not so much eating the snails but the huge amount of them on the plants in the area?  I wish I knew more so I knew what I was dealing with.  All I know is I did what the Amish Man told me. Let him vomit his little guts out. Gave him probios, antibiotics and pepto-bismol lots of water and the next morning he was okay much to my surprise.   Today we wormed everyone with ivomac plus because in the back of my head I have this little voice saying " the pelleted wormer you are using is not working."


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## trestlecreek (Sep 6, 2009)

huh...you'll have me digging too on this!! 
Can you get a picture of one of the boogers? I have the grey/brown ones,...the color you described does sound like you have a strange one out there?....

I know snails carry lungworm and other nasty diseases,,,, and it has been a horrible year for bugs, they are just awful for some reason.

When your goats die, what are the symptoms before they go? Sorry, you may have posted on here, I'm new, so I'm catching up to things,,,


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## nightshade (Sep 6, 2009)

the one this weekend was the first I really got to watch in happen in or at least some of it. When I got down to the pasture in the morning he was outside of the fence waiting for me like he always is. But he was stumbling around and waving as he stood their like he was dizzy or something. As I got closer I could see he had been vomiting and coughing up some very nasty vile smelling stuff. At this point I started calling around.  And four calls later got my Amish Buddy (I have not been able to find a really reliable goat vet in my area so he is where I go for help)  I did what he told me left for about 2 hours to go pick up a load of hay and when I got back he was standing looking at me. I was a little shocked to say the least. On my way home I was telling hubby how I guessed it was a good thing I had not plated the tree I bought to put over the goats we have lost (like I said they me alot to me) because I guessed I would be burying another one.


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## nightshade (Sep 6, 2009)

found it and it is some nasty ****. There is only two drugs that kill it and one is the Ivomac plus what is the luck in that. But now I feel terribly guilty because if I had realized that the pelleted wormer was not working I would have given the ivomac months ago, I could have saved them all.  
here is the link to what I found. 

http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=152&Itemid=171


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## trestlecreek (Sep 6, 2009)

Yep, sounds like poison for sure!!

Ahhhh,... I know, it is very hard to loose them!! That is something that will NEVER get easy to see. I have had them for many years and as I strive never to loose one, the truth is, is that it will happen and it breaks my heart even worse now than it did then!! I guess as you age, your heart just sinks harder.

I lost one 2 years ago tragically and I have not gotten over that one. I actually refuse to breed right now for that reason(and many others-I've gotten busy with work/school/kids), I think I have seen just too much, I'm burnt out and prefer to enjoy rather than breed right now, but one thing I do know is that we love these little goats and it is hard. 
I don't care who ya are, they are sweet and addicting!!!


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## trestlecreek (Sep 6, 2009)

Oh my gosh, yes!! Snails do carry the liver fluke.
Yes, get the Ivomec-Plus going for sure.  I have that too and have been using it for the last 2 years in the spring/fall as a preventative for that and the deer worm..... those can not be detected on a fecal and if you have the snails of deer, it's best to go ahead and worm to be sure...
Good thing you posted your experience, it is an eye opener for others here that may not realize what those ugly things can do.....


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## nightshade (Sep 6, 2009)

I know I will never worm with anything else that is for sure.


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## 2468herdsrgr8 (Sep 6, 2009)

This is very interesting because two weeks ago my friend had to put pony down and the vet suspected this sickness that horses can get ...exspecially if they live close to swamps ...or wet area's....its from snails and slugs....a week later the same vet put another horse down in our same area under the same symptons and this time the horse was sent to the local Agriculture University of Guelph for an Atopsy..still waiting to hear what the results are ...supposely there has been cases along the eastern states and some in eastern Canada ...
For the horses  there is a vaccination I think called Potomax...(sounds like probably  and spelled wrong...)
Pretty sad ....it devistated my friends to have a perfectly healthy pony and have it go down so fast ....with confusing symptons ...almost like it was posioned....   RIP Little Black Beauty


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## bheila (Sep 6, 2009)

I highly suggest if it happens again (god forbid) that you give the goat some charcoal. The snails are poisonous, right?


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## trestlecreek (Sep 6, 2009)

The snails _carry_ the liver fluke.
Death would not be instant upon ingestion of the snail....


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## ksalvagno (Sep 6, 2009)

I am so sorry for your loss. I hope your other goats will do fine now that you have given them Ivomec. Thanks for posting and letting the rest of us know about this.


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## freemotion (Sep 6, 2009)

Thank goodness you found out....eventually.  It is pretty rare, I think.  I hope.  

In CT a couple of years ago, someone I know lost a pet miniature donkey to snails when it was a wet year.  It was a large boarding stable with a lot of very expensive show horses....no one else got sick.  The donkey was let loose a little while each day to graze around the edges of the paddocks and down by a little brook.  So it wasn't the whole farm, just a small area that wasn't even part of the normal pastures and paddocks....I hope yours is the same and you can figure out how you can still keep goats there.  What agony.


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## broke down ranch (Sep 6, 2009)

So sorry to hear you have lost so many....

I recently learned goats can get Meningeal Worms from eating snails and slugs. Is this what the vet said your goats had?


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## wafflesmom (Sep 7, 2009)

So sorry for your loss. That's horrible about the snails!! Would have never thought about that.


I know how ya feel though about caring for them. Some friends/family said Grits was just a goat. I ignored them b/c my animals are more than animals. All my chickens will die of old age here.


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## beefy (Sep 7, 2009)

ive never heard of poisonous snails but it may be liver flukes that are the problem. snails are hosts for them. you may want to worm everyone with valbazen just to be on the safe side. and limit grazing to the afternoons when there is no dew on the grass.


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## beefy (Sep 7, 2009)

sorry just getting around to reading the whole post. if you are going to use the ivomec, make sure it is the ivomec* plus*. i use valbazen b/c i can mix it in food or water or drench it adn also b/c its a different type of wormer than the regular ivomec i use.


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## beefy (Sep 7, 2009)

(the vomiting sounds more like a plant toxicity to me tho) --sounds like what happened when my goat ate azaleas.

flukes usually show more parasitic causes such as anemia and wasting and bottle jaw and diarrhea etc. if you lose another one i would have a necropsy done to check the liver for flukes vs  toxins. it takes a while for flukes to kill, they wont die from flukes from eating a few snails in a days time. but if one or two have them they likely all do.


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## Roll farms (Sep 7, 2009)

You might watch using Valbazen on any that are / might be bred...There are warnings on the label.


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## nightshade (Sep 8, 2009)

all are doing well since the worming with the ivomac plus. The Bill we were terribly close to to losing the other night is now back to his hyper get into everything self. I will keep you updated. Thank you all for your tips and caring.


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## freemotion (Sep 8, 2009)




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## ksalvagno (Sep 9, 2009)

Glad to hear everyone is doing fine. Do you have to do a second Ivomec Plus shot or was the one shot enough? I know with some things you have to followup with a second shot 2 weeks later to make sure to get everything.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 9, 2009)

Yes, I agree there. It is usually every 14 days for at least 2 times for most worms,... If you need the information on the use of Ivomec for flukes, let me know and I can look that up for you....


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## nightshade (Sep 13, 2009)

Thanks a bunch, I think I am good know that I know what the heck I a dealing with. It was so hard to go through. I am worming again in 10 days and 10 after that to try to get them all, since it does not kill them til the mature. I will keep you all updated.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 13, 2009)

Good to hear that the goats are doing ok and you know what you are dealing with. Good luck with them!


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## kapfarm (Nov 2, 2009)

I don't know if this is exactly what snails got your goats but I found it on google search, there is a lot here, hope it helps everyone!

www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonlyres/...461C.../Goat_Parasites.docx


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## donkeyboy (Nov 3, 2009)

I'm very sorry you have had to loss your babies. I think that snails are linked to liver flukes.  If you look up liver flukes it will tell you that snails are a problem.


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