# Starting a new flock



## thestewarts (Apr 4, 2013)

Hello BYH!
We are a small family and we have just moved to a little farm (only 8 acres) and we are looking to become more self sufficient. We have chickens so far but we are fencing off a pasture area with a run in barn to prepare for getting our first flock of sheep. We want a tripple threat breed that can provide milk, wool and meat and I have kinda fallen in love with Icelandic but I don't think there is anyone near us (Hampton Roads, VA) who breeds/sells them. So my question is how did you get your flock? Especially if you wanted something specific. Or do you just give up and get what you can close by? We aren't going to be able to travel a long distace to get sheep (have you been in a car with a two year old recently for more than 10 minutes?!) Are there sheep delivery people? We don't want a huge flock (since it will mainly be me caring for them) probably 3 or 4 ewes and *maybe* a ram for breeding. That's not too many for a 1.5 acre pasture right?

Thanks!


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## SheepGirl (Apr 4, 2013)

thestewarts said:
			
		

> Hello BYH!
> We are a small family and we have just moved to a little farm (only 8 acres) and we are looking to become more self sufficient. We have chickens so far but we are fencing off a pasture area with a run in barn to prepare for getting our first flock of sheep. We want a tripple threat breed that can provide milk, wool and meat and I have kinda fallen in love with Icelandic but I don't think there is anyone near us (Hampton Roads, VA) who breeds/sells them. So my question is how did you get your flock? Especially if you wanted something specific. Or do you just give up and get what you can close by? We aren't going to be able to travel a long distace to get sheep (have you been in a car with a two year old recently for more than 10 minutes?!) Are there sheep delivery people? We don't want a huge flock (since it will mainly be me caring for them) probably 3 or 4 ewes and *maybe* a ram for breeding. That's not too many for a 1.5 acre pasture right?
> 
> Thanks!


First off,  ! Second, great choice in species  

And to answer your questions..

You want a triple purpose breed that can provide wool, meat, and milk. All wool sheep can do that. Remember that a breed marketed that can 'do everything' doesn't usually produce a lot of everything...they only ingest so much nutrients and all those nutrients have to be spread out over everything. Sheep bred specifically for meat or specifically for wool or specifically for dairy purposes will tend to put their nutrients to those uses and they produce a superb, efficient product.

Also, you never said what kind of wool you wanted to produce. Long wool? Fine wool? Medium wool? Each have different purposes. Fine wool is generally spun into very fine yarn so that you can use it to knit sweaters and other clothing that you would wear right next to the skin. Medium wool isn't good for much, maybe other than felting or stuffing teddy bears. Most people that have medium wool just throw it away or mix it with fine wool during processing. And long wool is great for spinning to make yarn to produce scarves, hats, etc.

If I were you, I would have a couple different breeds. There is no rule that says you can't crossbreed--in fact, most sheep in the U.S. are crossbred. Which means they are more plentiful, cheaper, and easier to find. Plus it won't be as expensive of a blow should you accidentally kill one due to inexperience. Like, you want milk and wool and meat. So if I were you I would get Dorset ewes (they have medium/fine wool) and cross them to a Suffolk, Hampshire, Texel, or Southdown ram. Having a terminal sire will give you meaty, fast growing lambs you can eat, while having your ewe base Dorsets, you get nice wool from your ewes every year plus you can milk them (Dorsets are sometimes used in dairy crossbreeding programs). You should have no problem finding some Dorset ewes (make sure you can find production Dorsets...they are a little harder to find than show Dorsets, but they will give you more milk & wool than the show Dorsets) and Suffolk rams are everywhere.

For me, I got my first ewe from my neighbor and kept her at his farm for six years, during which she was bred (and so were her daughters) by my neighbor's rams. My neighbor moved and my flock moved to my house. I wanted to breed my ewes, so I figured out what I wanted to cross them with. I wanted a Texel because I wanted meatier sheep. So I went to the breed association to the breeder's directory and found someone close to me. I found someone 15-20 minutes away with a yearling ram to sell and I bought him and his lambs were born last month and I'm so excited about them. 

Also, some breeders will deliver for you, especially if they have a larger flock and have a stock trailer. Some smaller sheep producers (such as myself), have nothing to haul sheep with except for a dog cage in the back of a pick up truck. I wouldn't mind hauling sheep should I sell some to a customer, but I can't fit any more than 2 in the dog cage.

For your 1.5 acre pasture, you can probably run 5-7 ewes. But be prepared to pen them up in the winter and feed them hay. I have a two acre pasture and it was completely depleted in mid February and it was starting to become muddy because the sheep had grazed so much that there was no grass there to prevent it from erosion, especially when it rained/snowed. So my ewes were penned up, but my ram is on the pasture so I don't have to spend money to feed him hay (well not a lot anyway). The grass everywhere in our area really hasn't started growing yet so my ewes are penned up. I'm hoping the grass starts growing soon! Cheap food lol


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## EllieMay (Apr 4, 2013)

Icelandics are beautiful sheep.
You can check the breed association to find breeders closer to you.
Also, go to the sheep auctions/shows and ask a lot of questions.
There are folks on this forum who breed Icelandics who can help you also.
You can also work out transport details when you purchase your sheep.
There are transport companies and some breeders will deliver for a fee.

Sheep are quite easy to care for.
I care for mine all by myself.
I currently only have 11 but plan on doubling that number this year.
I do keep a ram as well.  He is recently separated from my ewes since they are due to lamb within a couple of months.
So the ram is in a pasture with two of my LGD's.  He likes my dogs.  

Area you setting aside enough land to be able to rotate your sheep from pasture to pasture?
I am also, like you, working towards more self-sufficiency.
I have the chickens for eggs and meat.
I am raising a pig with the sheep on pasture for slaughter in the Fall.
I eat the lambs that may not be good enough to sell as breeding registered stock.
And I grow a lot of fruits and veggies.

It's work, and it's fun work (most of the time).    

Again, WELCOME to BYH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## EllieMay (Apr 4, 2013)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> . . . .* I'm hoping the grass starts growing soon! Cheap food* lol


*x2!!!*


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## BrownSheep (Apr 4, 2013)

I second everything that has been said. I raise Horn Dorset X ( smaller than polled dorsets) and I really love them. The wool is very nice, pretty heavy bags, and produce fairly meaty lambs. 

Crossbred sheep,in my opinion, are one of the best options for hobby farming. Overall healthier sturdier animals than the purebreds. They are much easier to locate and easier to sell. Although they wont sell for as much as a registered animal.


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## thestewarts (Apr 5, 2013)

THANK YOU!!!! Lots of great info. I don't want to get in over my head but we are excited to jump right in. Hence buying 27 chickens after living here for 17 days LOL. We will have one pasture ready any day now (hubby is slowly but surely working on the fence) and honestly he has had to cut it 3 times in the 2 months we have lived here! Right now the back 4 acres of pur property is separated by a strip of woods and a small creek we will need to build a bridge and put up fencing back there to have more pasture which will probably come as needed/by the end of summer? I am thinking we want fine or long wool. I have dreams of hand spinning wool to crochet hats and junk but in reality I have a 2 year old and a soon to be 1 year old and really have few moments of spare time. I have never been a fan of name brands and pedigrees but we also do want to raise mainly heritage breeds. But I am certainly open to cross breeds. There is a pair of jacob sheep for sale somewhat close by I was thinking of but then someone said I should look for icelandics. We also plan on setting up a hydroponic fodder system. I used to do hydro back in the day in my bedroom as a teenager for my iguanas. I can get a 50lb bag of barley for under $20 and produce 500lbs of fodder or plant it and grow the grain and produce 3,000lbs of grain... but all this is a process. A huge life change we are making but SO excited for! 

It's funny I always wanted to be a veternarian but I think farmer really is better  Just seeing how much joy my daughters get from feeding our chickens makes me know we made the right choice. I can not wait for my girls to see their first baby sheep born here!


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## thestewarts (Apr 5, 2013)

Also, this is a totally rooky question but if I got a ram baby and bottle fed him and let him be with us always and loved him like a dog and let my kids love on him and play with him would he be nicer? I mean I am sure we will do all that anyway just wondering if it would help make for a nice ram or if it doesnt matter and I could just get an adult ram and hope for the best becuase they are meanies anyway.


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## purplequeenvt (Apr 5, 2013)

thestewarts said:
			
		

> Also, this is a totally rooky question but if I got a ram baby and bottle fed him and let him be with us always and loved him like a dog and let my kids love on him and play with him would he be nicer? I mean I am sure we will do all that anyway just wondering if it would help make for a nice ram or if it doesnt matter and I could just get an adult ram and hope for the best becuase they are meanies anyway.


Honestly, I would not go the bottle baby route unless you are prepared to teach him manners. Rams are generally a lot pushier than ewes and they all have a natural tendency towards aggression. Bottle feeding and treating him like a pet will make him think that he is human/you are a sheep and he will eventually challenge your authority. 

We have successfully bottle raised rams and had them grow into gentle, well adjusted breeding rams, but I wouldn't recommend that a beginner try.


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## SheepGirl (Apr 5, 2013)

thestewarts said:
			
		

> THANK YOU!!!! Lots of great info. I don't want to get in over my head but we are excited to jump right in. Hence buying 27 chickens after living here for 17 days LOL. We will have one pasture ready any day now (hubby is slowly but surely working on the fence) and honestly he has had to cut it 3 times in the 2 months we have lived here! Right now the back 4 acres of pur property is separated by a strip of woods and a small creek we will need to build a bridge and put up fencing back there to have more pasture which will probably come as needed/by the end of summer? I am thinking we want fine or long wool. I have dreams of hand spinning wool to crochet hats and junk but in reality I have a 2 year old and a soon to be 1 year old and really have few moments of spare time. I have never been a fan of name brands and pedigrees but we also do want to raise mainly heritage breeds. But I am certainly open to cross breeds. There is a pair of jacob sheep for sale somewhat close by I was thinking of but then someone said I should look for icelandics. We also plan on setting up a hydroponic fodder system. I used to do hydro back in the day in my bedroom as a teenager for my iguanas. I can get a 50lb bag of barley for under $20 and produce 500lbs of fodder or plant it and grow the grain and produce 3,000lbs of grain... but all this is a process. A huge life change we are making but SO excited for!
> 
> It's funny I always wanted to be a veternarian but I think farmer really is better  Just seeing how much joy my daughters get from feeding our chickens makes me know we made the right choice. I can not wait for my girls to see their first baby sheep born here!


I am not a big fan of fodder because it is an expensive feedstuff with high capital to get it started.

500 lbs of fodder for $11 (that's how much 50 lbs of barley's selling for in my area) = $0.022/lb. However, fodder is 20% moisture and you need to feed a 150 lb sheep (during maintenance) 3 lbs of dry matter (sheep require 2% of their body weight in DM a day during maintenance). 3 lbs of DM / 20% moisture = 15 lbs of fodder needed to feed a day to each sheep. 15 lbs of fodder x $0.022 = $0.33/day.

It would probably just be cheaper to feed hay...I can get hay for $0.0625/lb. I don't know the exact moisture content of it, but I'm guessing around 85-90%. So 3 lbs of DM / 85% moisture = 3.53 lbs of hay needed to feed a day to each sheep. 3.53 lbs of fodder x $0.0625 = $0.22/day.

If you have five sheep, that is the difference between $1.65 (fodder) and $1.10 (hay), or $49.50 (fodder) and $33 (hay) over the course of a month. If you fed this all year long, it will cost you about $40 more every year per animal to feed fodder...and that doesn't include the initial set up costs. When you have hay, you can just buy it straight from another farmer (though storage can be an issue, but even still you can have hay under a tarp outside if you lack a barn or other structure). Again, in this example I am using the prices in my area...if fodder pencils out for you then by all means use it. But it is not a viable feed source for me.



			
				thestewarts said:
			
		

> Also, this is a totally rooky question but if I got a ram baby and bottle fed him and let him be with us always and loved him like a dog and let my kids love on him and play with him would he be nicer? I mean I am sure we will do all that anyway just wondering if it would help make for a nice ram or if it doesnt matter and I could just get an adult ram and hope for the best becuase they are meanies anyway.


X2 with PQVT. Bottle raising animals can be very sensitive--some you have never develop any issues but others it's touch and go until they're weaned. If you were to bottle feed ANY, it would need to be a wether or a ewe. You don't have the experience quite just yet to recognize early aggression signs in ram lambs, so you wouldn't know how to correct it when they're babies to prevent a monster as an adult ram. Bottle fed rams are notorious for being more aggressive and dangerous than just regular dam raised rams. However, they're notorious for being dangerous because they're 'made' like that because inexperienced shepherds are bottle feeding them, thinking it's cute when they're climbing on you, playfully headbutting you (turns into a dangerous game when they are 200+ lbs), nibbling on your shirt, etc.

-----

I can't wait to see pictures of your flock when you get them


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## BrownSheep (Apr 5, 2013)

In my exprience bottle baby rams are typically aweful. This is because to them you are jus another sheep that they will challenge. I actually have a bottle baby ram ( bought him not knowing and in desperate of a ram). He's not mean spirited but he does butt and it would take much for him to kill a person if he knocked them down. And he easily knock my dad who is a big guy ( 6'2) down. 

If you do want a tamer ram I would go with a dam raise ram lamb and then work on calming him down. Our othe ram was dam raised and is a real gentleman. Please remember that NO ram should be trusted with children.


I do however sing the praises of bottle raised ewes an wethers. They are great fun and can become a lot like puppy dogs.


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## woodsie (Apr 5, 2013)

BrownSheep said:
			
		

> In my exprience bottle baby rams are typically aweful. This is because to them you are jus another sheep that they will challenge. I actually have a bottle baby ram ( bought him not knowing and in desperate of a ram). He's not mean spirited but he does butt and it would take much for him to kill a person if he knocked them down. And he easily knock my dad who is a big guy ( 6'2) down.
> 
> If you do want a tamer ram I would go with a dam raise ram lamb and then work on calming him down. Our othe ram was dam raised and is a real gentleman. Please remember that NO ram should be trusted with children.
> 
> ...


X2 - I made the same mistake getting a bottle fed ram, he ended up in the freezer and was totally unpredictable. My dam raised ram is much better and is always at the back of the herd and has accepted goats into the pasture with very little butting. He has never challenged me and we repect eachother's distance. IMO not worth taking the chance, they are too powerful to take a chance with.


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## thestewarts (Apr 5, 2013)

Good to know. Maybe we will skip the ram all together and just borrow one for a couple months when we are ready to breed.


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## bonbean01 (Apr 5, 2013)

Just to maybe help you decide...when we first started with sheep, we had much learning to do...we started out with just one ewe lamb and one ram lamb...the following year we had our very first ever lamb...those two sheep taught us so much...you can read volumes of information, but hands on experience is invaluable...as is this forum and help from other sheep owners...really wish I'd found this forum much sooner!!!  Starting out small and learning as you go is what we did and we found there is a learning curve and we were behind it at first 

We now have more sheep and we added more gradually...and yes...handling a ram lamb is something that we did so wrong with our first one...we played with him...didn't know any better, and by age 3 he was super dangerous and had to go before we got more injured than we already were from him 

Welcome to BYH!!!!  The experience and knowledge from the members is totally great!!!  Good luck with your sheep and we love photos on here


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## thestewarts (Apr 9, 2013)

Well we just came into an opportunity to get 4 icelandics... TOMORROW! So excited! SO much to do! Hubby will be driving 3 hours there and back in his truck with them


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Apr 9, 2013)

*That's interesting about the fodder. I will have to show my boyfriend. I guess the same thing could be applied to Chaffhaye which also has a high moisture content.*


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## Kellykidz (Apr 9, 2013)

thestewarts said:
			
		

> THANK YOU!!!! Lots of great info. I don't want to get in over my head but we are excited to jump right in. Hence buying 27 chickens after living here for 17 days LOL. We will have one pasture ready any day now (hubby is slowly but surely working on the fence) and honestly he has had to cut it 3 times in the 2 months we have lived here! Right now the back 4 acres of pur property is separated by a strip of woods and a small creek we will need to build a bridge and put up fencing back there to have more pasture which will probably come as needed/by the end of summer? I am thinking we want fine or long wool. I have dreams of hand spinning wool to crochet hats and junk but in reality I have a 2 year old and a soon to be 1 year old and really have few moments of spare time. I have never been a fan of name brands and pedigrees but we also do want to raise mainly heritage breeds. But I am certainly open to cross breeds. There is a pair of jacob sheep for sale somewhat close by I was thinking of but then someone said I should look for icelandics. We also plan on setting up a hydroponic fodder system. I used to do hydro back in the day in my bedroom as a teenager for my iguanas. I can get a 50lb bag of barley for under $20 and produce 500lbs of fodder or plant it and grow the grain and produce 3,000lbs of grain... but all this is a process. A huge life change we are making but SO excited for!
> 
> It's funny I always wanted to be a veternarian but I think farmer really is better  Just seeing how much joy my daughters get from feeding our chickens makes me know we made the right choice. I can not wait for my girls to see their first baby sheep born here!


So far our sheep have not eaten much fodder because we have always had grass for them to eat by moving around temporary fencing for them.  I have cut my food bill in 1/2 by growing fodder.  I am not growing enough for all the animals but my 3 turkeys are eating about 4 lbs a day + as much turkey food as they want.  The turkey food consumption has been cut in half.  My 6 cattle eat 20lbs ish of fodder a day and have some grass in the pasture and 1 flake of hay a day.  Most days the fodder is eaten and hay is left over.  I think I am getting 5-6 lbs of fodder for every 1lb of seed.  

Good luck with your new adventure.


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## thestewarts (Apr 15, 2013)

Just wanted to share a few pictures of our new additions!
Our 3 ewes! 5ish yr old badger face who we are calling "Honey" 3ish year old white and her lamb 4 week old ewe





She is a great mommy... baby is a very enthusiastic nurser! 




Here they all are in the back of the truck coming home!




This here is our ram which our 2 year old has named Timmy~


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