# Installing hot wire



## mystang89 (Jul 1, 2017)

So I've finally installed my sheep and goat  fencing or  at  least enough of it and I was going to put up some hot wire now. As is the case with what seems like everything, I don't know what I'm doing. It's there a good site I haven't found that says how to install hot wires for dummies? 
Some questions. Can I hook the hot wires directly to my fuse box in my barn. How many grounding rods do I need? Just 3?10ft apart? No further away than 20 ft from the fuse box? My fence is about 1200ft......ish.

Help


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## greybeard (Jul 1, 2017)

mystang89 said:


> So I've finally installed my sheep and goat  fencing or  at  least enough of it and I was going to put up some hot wire now. As is the case with what seems like everything, I don't know what I'm doing. It's there a good site I haven't found that says how to install hot wires for dummies?
> Some questions. *Can I hook the hot wires directly to my fuse box in my barn.* How many grounding rods do I need? Just 3?10ft apart? No further away than 20 ft from the fuse box? My fence is about 1200ft......ish.
> 
> Help


If that is asking what it seems to be...STOP!!!!!!!
Hot wires have to be connected to an approved energizer/fence charger..not a fusebox or breaker box.


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## mystang89 (Jul 1, 2017)

greybeard said:


> If that is asking what it seems to be...STOP!!!!!!!
> Hot wires have to be connected to an approved energizer/fence charger..not a fusebox or breaker box.



LOL, that's why I come here before doing  something. Just for information though, the person who lived here before me had his connected to his circuit breaker. I haven't a clue how it's done though. Why is that a no no.


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## greybeard (Jul 1, 2017)

mystang89 said:


> LOL, that's why I come here before doing  something. Just for information though, the person who lived here before me had his connected to his circuit breaker. I haven't a clue how it's done though. Why is that a no no.


Making every effort to control my words here........

Because not using a charger and having the fence's hot wire connected directly to a fuse box or circuit breaker is:
1. Illegal unless you're running a high security federal penitentiary.
2. Dangerous as all hades. From a previous post:


> I recently read a discussion regarding a little girl's electrocution when she came in contact with a bare (non-insulated) live 120V wire outside a neighbor's home. The detailed history behind the unfortunate death is irrelevant to this thread, but the basics and one of the comments about the death is.
> The wire was stuck into the hot side of a residential 120v AC 20Amp circuit receptacle, protected by standard 20A circuit breaker. That's all I want to say about the basics of that event.
> The comment that shocked me, was from an adult almost as old as I am and he should have known better:
> "I wonder why the breaker didn't trip--it should have."
> No, it 'may' have, but unless the fault to ground thru her body was in excess of the amp rating on the breaker, it would not have, and even if it eventually had (tripped) , she would most likely have died anyway by the time it tripped.



Done without a fence charger, it'll kill predators, your animals, and anything else coming in contact with the hot wire.

http://www.zarebasystems.com/learning-center/how-electric-fencing-works

http://www.zarebasystems.com/learning-center/installation-guide


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## Simpleterrier (Jul 1, 2017)

Maybe the best is to read and read and read and visit places that do have animals and  ask question after question after question. But whatever u do not connect it to your breaker panel. In reality if u don't know what ur doing you may never make it past that. If you try it just let us know your address before so we can send best regards to your family. Wow I just thought people where born knowing some of this stuff but I guess not. 


You need an pulsating fence charger.


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## greybeard (Jul 1, 2017)

Simpleterrier said:


> Maybe the best is to read and read and read and visit places that do have animals and  ask question after question after question. But whatever u do not connect it to your breaker panel. In reality if u don't know what ur doing you may never make it past that. If you try it just let us know your address before so we can send best regards to your family. Wow I just thought people where born knowing some of this stuff but I guess not.
> 
> 
> You need an pulsating fence charger.


No one is ever born knowing anything other than, the comfort of their mother's womb and a minimum of natural instincts.


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## mystang89 (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks for the replies! Though i WOULD like to have fort Knox here I don't think that my seven, soon to be 8 children, would be safe and not touch it. 

So, now I know why not to him it up like that. Thanks VERY much @greybeard. I'll do some reading on the sites you sent me and ask more questions later.


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## Baymule (Jul 1, 2017)

I am so glad that you are here asking questions. Please don't feel silly or embarrassed over asking things that you don't know. The only stupid question is the one never asked. You just keep on asking questions, some one here will answer them for you!


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## mystang89 (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks baymule, Greybeard has been a life saver here, probably more literally than figuratively. Lol


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## babsbag (Jul 1, 2017)

I am really glad that you asked, many people wouldn't do that.


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## greybeard (Jul 2, 2017)

mystang89 said:


> Thanks for the replies! Though i WOULD like to have fort Knox here I don't think that my seven, soon to be 8 children, would be safe and not touch it.
> 
> So, now I know why not to him it up like that. Thanks VERY much @greybeard. I'll do some reading on the sites you sent me and ask more questions later.


You're welcome. A visit to your local extension agent (county agent) would probably be a good place to start, tho there are tons of youtube videos showing how to properly install an electric fence as well.
I know my local Tractor Supply store has a rack of free brochures from the line of fence energizers they sell that has a lot of the basic information. 
Every fence is different, depending on it's purpose, total length and number of hot wires, and capacity of the energizer.


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## Mike CHS (Jul 3, 2017)

Tractor Supply also usually has DVDs in their fencing section that are pretty informative.


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## mystang89 (Feb 21, 2018)

Well, its spring time, I've had much time to study and plan what I'd like to do with my fencing, taxes came in and I can now go and purchase a charger.  So that of course means more questions.  This time it just concerns putting electric fencing in and the pasture gate.  In case people don't know I have a 48" woven wire sheep and goat fence and will only have 1 hotwire running the top.  Each pasture has 2 - 3 different gates going to them.  Do I need to dig a trench and run wire under each gate or can I just run the wire over the gate and unlatch it each time I want to go in and out?  I think that is probably the best way to electrify my gate area anyway. Thanks.


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## Mike CHS (Feb 21, 2018)

Our hot wire is as much to keep our dogs in as to keep predators out so we run a hot and ground wire on top.  The gate anchors give a good connection.


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## greybeard (Feb 21, 2018)

mystang89 said:


> Do I need to dig a trench and run wire under each gate or can I just run the wire over the gate and unlatch it each time I want to go in and out? I think that is probably the best way to electrify my gate area anyway. Thanks.


Either way, but I'll guarantee, you're going to get zapped at least once unlatching that hot wire sooner or later.
When I was using those suicide handles





I put a disconnect (knife switch) on the lead in side so I didn't have to worry about getting zapped. Go grab one when it's covered in dew and you'll see why.


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## Baymule (Feb 21, 2018)

They make plastic handled gate hooks. You make a loop in the wire so you can hook the gate latch to, then you can unhook, go in or out, then hook it back up. 

http://www.zarebasystems.com/learning-center/installation-guide/fence-gate-placement

http://www.kencove.com/fence/Gate+Handles_product.php


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## Latestarter (Feb 21, 2018)

This is the way I've always understood it to be done if you want hot wire above the gate but don't want to shut the whole fence down, or the fence beyond the gate you're opening, when the gate is opened.





Credit Zareba link from Bay.


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## mystang89 (Feb 22, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Either way, but I'll guarantee, you're going to get zapped at least once unlatching that hot wire sooner or later.
> When I was using those suicide handles
> I put a disconnect (knife switch) on the lead in side so I didn't have to worry about getting zapped. Go grab one when it's covered in dew and you'll see why.


 Good ol experience, the best teacher. I honestly don't want to have one hanging above the gate at all but I'm afraid if I don't put one there that that she will be will things get in and out.

@Latestarter that's also how I saw it but I wasn't too worried about the entire thing shutting down since it would only be for a few minutes while I pulled the tractor in. At the same time though I have very forgetful children.


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## mystang89 (Feb 22, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Either way, but I'll guarantee, you're going to get zapped at least once unlatching that hot wire sooner or later.
> When I was using those suicide handles
> I put a disconnect (knife switch) on the lead in side so I didn't have to worry about getting zapped. Go grab one when it's covered in dew and you'll see why.


 Good ol experience, the best teacher. I honestly don't want to have one hanging above the gate at all but I'm afraid if I don't put one there that that she will be will things get in and out.

@Latestarter that's also how I saw it but I wasn't too worried about the entire thing shutting down since it would only be for a few minutes while I pulled the tractor in. At the same time though I have very forgetful children.


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## mystang89 (Feb 22, 2018)

Surprise! Another question. The fence goes to the end of my driveway but don't cross over. How does the circuit connect itself if it's only one wire going down a run of fencing to a dead end?


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## Bruce (Feb 22, 2018)

Dead end is fine, normal actually. The circuit is completed when something touching the ground (*) is also touching the hot wire. If you live somewhere really dry, or where the ground is frozen in the winter, the ground is not a great conductor. I've carried a ground wire 6" below the hot wire on my fence. The posts (steel T-posts except at corners and gates) are 5' out of the ground, the fence is 4' woven wire and the hot runs on top at 5 '. I do not currently have hot wire running over the gates other than the one at the north end of the barn. The hot wire wasn't installed yet when the picture was taken but the energizer is inside between the open door and the closed big doors. The hot wire runs from the right side of the barn overhead to an extension on the right gate post and the gate and the section to the left are just a short run of wire. The  main run goes the other way. Note that the red line denotes the "fenced" area, the hot wire stops at the corner of the small barn and there is a gate between the barns on the right. It isn't protected with hot wire and that does concern me.


 

Note carefully that in @Latestarter's diagram, the energizer is on the left side of the picture. You REALLY don't want the free end of the gate wire to be hot when it is disconnected. As you can see they have a "two way gate anchor" on both posts but the hot wire is connected only to the one on the left. You don't really need a "two way" on the right side, you aren't going to connect anything to the second side if you run the hot wire underground as shown.

BTW I just saw this thread. I wouldn't have ever guessed someone would run 120V straight to the fence wire 

* "Ground" is either the actual ground or the metal fence that is clipped to the metal T-posts in the ground.


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## greybeard (Feb 22, 2018)

Bruce said:


> The circuit is completed when something touching the ground (*) is also touching the hot wire


Not, until the pulse actually returns to and reaches the negative terminal on the circuit board back at the energizer! Either thru the animal, along the Earth ground path, up the ground rod, into the clip and thru the lead insulated wire back into the charger, or along the negative wire(if it's a 2 wire system) and back into the energizer. Either way, the pulse must reach the neg term on the board before the circuit is complete and a shock is felt.

(On a dead end fence, don't be surprised if you find higher voltage near the end than at the beginning or middle of the fence...electron build up)


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## Hipshot (Feb 22, 2018)

Well actually you can hook 110 to a fence if you use a  pulsating rectifier. But it is in efficient .  The difference between it, and using a fence charger with a step up transformer ( this is simplified )  is the difference between getting hit with a tack hammer and a sledge hammer .I don't have the specs on voltage supplied by a solid state  modern fence charger, but it is far greater than 110 volts .It is the pulsing current that makes electric fencing safe to use. It really functions very similar to the ignition system on a gas engine .And that spark plug is getting a lot more than a 110 volts too . I been bit by both The number one rule of electric fencing is DON'T TOUCH IT  won't tell you  the second rule TSC has a very good store display that makes it simple . But there are so many options these days sure has changed over the years .


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## greybeard (Feb 22, 2018)

Hipshot said:


> I don't have the specs on voltage supplied by a solid state modern fence charger, but it is far greater than 110 volts .


At minimum, it would be 50x (or more) what 110v house current puts out.. (IN VOLTAGE!). 5500v would be the least I'd want on a good fence.


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## babsbag (Feb 22, 2018)

If I have a gate between pastures and I am not worried about my dogs going over it I run my hot wire overhead. Usually it is because I need that hot wire elsewhere, not because I am protecting that section of fence. I take those step in fiberglass poles and fasten them to each side of the gate and run the wire up one side, over the top, and down the other side. Of course if you have a tractor with a roll bar you need to go HIGH.


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## babsbag (Feb 22, 2018)

greybeard said:


> At minimum, it would be 50x (or more) what 110v house current puts out.. (IN VOLTAGE!). 5500v would be the least I'd want on a good fence.



I have a digital tester and it reads up to 9.9 kilo volts. I am not happy unless it says 7 or better.


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## Bruce (Feb 23, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Not, until the pulse actually returns to and reaches the negative terminal on the circuit board back at the energizer!


True, though that pulse happens every second right? So for practical purposes, pretty much any time the hot wire is touched at the same time as anything that can connect back to the ground terminal. 

I've run conduit and insulated wire under the gates so I don't have to worry about overhead wire ... other than where the wire comes out of the barn from the energizer. TOO many buried rocks.


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## mystang89 (Feb 23, 2018)

This is the one I bought. I think it said it pulsated at a 2 sec delay but can't double check at the moment. I'll be using steel quite and not the poly wire to run up top. If I don't have to bring another wire down the bottom of the fence them I'll probably just run the wire underground below the gate.


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## greybeard (Feb 23, 2018)

Bruce said:


> True, though that pulse happens every second right?



The time period between pulses varies with different energizers, as does the length of the pulse itself. (duration and frequency) .
This is part of the formula for determining the energy (joules) rating.
The frequency is closer to 2 second intervals, but the duration of the pulse  is very very short. A few ten thousandths of a second. That's .000?--probably less than .0005 seconds.  Doesn't take long, as the energy is stored in capacitors and electrons on the conductor are being knocked off their atoms at near light speed.




> .I don't have the specs on voltage supplied by a solid state modern fence charger, but it is far greater than 110 volts . It is the pulsing current that makes electric fencing safe to use.



And, the much lower current used in fence chargers. It's in milliamps as opposed to a higher current in even half wave rectified AC household 110.
Rectified AC is still pulsed or 'rippled..how much depends on whether it is 1/2 wave, full wave, or bridge rectified. (1, 2 or 4 diodes) 1/2 wave results in there being zero voltage during 1/2 the one second time period (time is important in calculating energy or Joules) Full wave uses both sides of the sine wave and produces voltage all the time, and IIRC, that means a pulse rate that's very high (approx 240 ripples per second) but much lower voltage output. Current is load dependent.

I did once calculate what an automotive parts setup would produce on a fence and was dismayed at the joules rating. Output voltage was 'interesting'.... Around 38,000 volts, but joules was fraction of 1 joule. Life of the system would be prohibitively short and input energy to drive either a distributor or flywheel for CPS usage.
Even using the flywheel, & coil off an old lawnmower engine was way too inefficient because you still had to have a motor to drive it..


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## Mike CHS (Feb 23, 2018)

GB  - That is one of the better explanations I have seen for that topic.

I don't understand all the science behind the chargers but I do know that my 75 mile charger will lay a person on the ground when/if they touch the high hot and ground wire.


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## Latestarter (Feb 23, 2018)

Hmmm, now how would he know that...


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## Bruce (Feb 23, 2018)

And that person's name is Mike.


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## greybeard (Feb 23, 2018)

Some energizers have a blinking led that is supposed to indicate when a pulse takes place. They are notoriously inaccurate both in frequency and especially in duration and it's where the misconception of when each pulse takes place and duration comes from. Tho led lighting is faster than incandescent, it still takes a period of time for the light to illuminate and then dissipate, and our eyes' inability to process the images we see in real time is not instantaneous either. The pulses are actually happening slower between each and the duration is much faster than what the light indicates.


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## greybeard (Feb 23, 2018)

How a basic fence charger works:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Reverse-Engineering-an-Electric-Fence-Charger/


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## Bruce (Feb 23, 2018)

Mine clicks, pretty easy to know it is pulsing if I'm within 50' of it.


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## mystang89 (Feb 23, 2018)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0079GH4HU/ref=oh_aui_i_sh_pre_o0_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Lol, anyway THIS is the one I bought. You see there the 2 second delay but greybeard already did a masterful job of explaining the inaccuracy of that


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## greybeard (Feb 23, 2018)

I'm not sure that 1j is enough for sheep unless they are hair sheep. 
Sheep folks chime in!


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## Mike CHS (Feb 23, 2018)

We use a 25 mile charger in a 3/4 acre pen over woven wire and a low wire to keep them from rubbing (hair sheep).  I'm not sure how well it would work as a 4 or 5 strand fence since I haven't done that but there are others on here that use it and hopefully they will chime in.  I have no experience with wool sheep.


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## mystang89 (Feb 23, 2018)

It would only be one stand at top and that is mainly to zap anything coming in and dogs going out. The sheep, so far, seem relatively relaxed inside..... So far.


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## Mike CHS (Feb 23, 2018)

That is the way we do ours all around and it does what we ask of it.  This is another case where I can personally say that even the 25 mile charger is not a pleasant experience.  We don't have sagging fence from the sheep scratching their hair on it but we give them other scratching posts.


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## mystang89 (Mar 11, 2018)

Ok, so I'm getting closer and closer, albeit slept, to actually installing the wire and I want to make sure I have this down as well as possible. When I run the wire I should start at the furthest point from what I can tell which would be the dead end. The dead end is of course a wood pole. How do I start? Do I wrap it around the wood pole to itself them run it the rest of the way down, (with tube insulator keeping the wire from the wood)?  

Also, how do I go about tightening the wire from around all those bends?  Do I have to cut it at each end?  If someone finds a video on google that would be helpful.  I couldn't find anything that actually helped on this stuff.  I'll have more questions in a bit but strapped for time atm.


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## Latestarter (Mar 11, 2018)

You attach the end to an insulator. If you attach it to the wood or around the wood pole, you'll be attaching it to ground and defeat the purpose of the fence. You need an insulation medium between the wire and anything it touches that might act as a conductor.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 11, 2018)

Many think that wood is a non conductor but I have found my wire arcing where it was touching a wet fence post.


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## mystang89 (Mar 11, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> You attach the end to an insulator. If you attach it to the wood or around the wood pole, you'll be attaching it to ground and defeat the purpose of the fence. You need an insulation medium between the wire and anything it touches that might act as a conductor.



Thishttps://www.ebay.com/i/152906757264...3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1463981584241

Is what I was thinking about skipping the wire through so it wouldn't touch the pole.i also have a couple of very old t-post that the normal insulators for won't for. I'll take a picture of those tomorrow and post them. I'm guessing I can't just have the wire touching the pole or that would ground it out as well.


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## greybeard (Mar 11, 2018)

The wire should not touch anything metal or wood.
The tube you linked to (eBay) is just a hollow insulating tube you would use between the fence charger and the start of the hot wire...and, around, over or under a gate...you would run your normal bare wire inside it. I am not a fan of that tubing. They tend to get full of moisture and ground out, and IMO, that particular eBay item is overpriced considering it has no conductor inside the tube.

They sell high voltage insulated lead-in wire, insulation rated at 20,000 volts specifically for those type situations.
http://www.kencove.com/fence/Underground+Wire_product.php
https://gallagherelectricfencing.com/products/patriot-underground-electric-fence-leadout-wire-100

the 14 ga below is a little thin, but will probably work.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Zareba-14-Gauge-Hook-Up-Wire-01404-92/203265814


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## Bruce (Mar 12, 2018)

I used these at the beginning and end of the run and on wood posts (H braces)





I used these on the T-posts




I used these on the corner posts





All those allow you to run the wire without having to twist it. That doesn't matter much if you are using braided wire but with metal wire it was a lot easier just to run it off the spool and pull the pins on the second 2 types.

I used these mid-run between wood posts to tighten




though @Mike CHS has some that you can put at the beginning or end and I think that would be better.

All from Premier1 https://www.premier1supplies.com/c/fencing/insulators


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## mystang89 (Mar 12, 2018)

Thanks @Bruce ! I'll look into a few of those. I'm still a bit confused with tightening it up. I'll look at the description on that too and see what it says though


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## Mike CHS (Mar 12, 2018)

We have put the plastic tension pieces on all of our fences and really like them.  We have only had to tighten a couple of them due to hits by deer but that rarely happens now that the deer are used to having to go around.


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## mystang89 (Mar 12, 2018)

I didn't see the plastic tension peices on that web site Bruce linked me. Are they from a different place?


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## greybeard (Mar 12, 2018)

What kind of wire are ya'll using and how much tension are you putting on it that plastic will work on anything other than tee post or nail of wooden post insulators just to keep it from sagging?
These would never stay in the post on the 12ga electric wire I was running.




I have used some screw in insulators, but the shank of the tapered screw is a lot bigger and longer than what that one is. 
I use a version of these, or the old porcelain ones that have steel backing embedded in them.

https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/pi-20-high-tensile-terminal-insulator


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## Bruce (Mar 13, 2018)

I have some of those as well, I used them on some inside corners. I find them harder to install and keep in position. 

I'm sure I'm not putting anywhere near the tension on my hot wire as you are @greybeard. Mine runs above the 4' field fence.


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## greybeard (Mar 13, 2018)

My hot wires were the same tension as the rest of the fence wires with the exception of some 18 or 17ga wire I put up temporarily when I was in a hurry and used in-line strainers to tension it with. My permanent fences have to present a deterrent to stock whether the energizer is working  or not, which is why I now use 12 ga wire. 
I've gotten rid of all the thin wire and taken all the strainers and small wire down and won't be putting any more back up.


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## mystang89 (Mar 13, 2018)

I'm glad you two brought this up. Be ready to facepalm my question but....... Why do I need to worry about how to tight the hot wire is? It's giving the same jolt either way right? I do understand if the hot wire is the only thing keeping things in and it. In other words are or 5 line hot wire with no fence.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 13, 2018)

The wire doesn't have to be stretched (Piano String) tight but, pull it taut enough to stay at the same height between posts.  In my case I run a hot and ground at the top of all of my woven wire fences and a sagging wire is going to cause problems.


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## Bruce (Mar 13, 2018)

Mine is the same as Mike's hot (5') over ground (4.5') above the 4' field fence.


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## greybeard (Mar 13, 2018)

mystang89 said:


> I'm glad you two brought this up. Be ready to facepalm my question but....... Why do I need to worry about how to tight the hot wire is? It's giving the same jolt either way right? I do understand if the hot wire is the only thing keeping things in and it. In other words are or 5 line hot wire with no fence.


Depends on what you are trying to keep in (or out) I guess.  Wire has a certain amount of 'stretch' to it before it gets tight. Some wire, more than others. HT for instance has virtually no stretch to it, meaning you pull it tight and beyond that, you risk breaking it. Old low carbon steel wire (and the aluminum wire) had a lot of stretch to it...you pulled it tight, then kept pulling until you had all the stretch/elongation out of it. Problem with that was, it was almost impossible to ever get all the elongation out of it and you go back 6 months later and the wire is loose again just because the natural tendency to elongate from  temperature changes, weight of the wire between posts and pressure from livestock/widlife.
HT wire doesn't do that, but if you don't tension it good and tight to begin with, it too can suffer from loss of tension due to almost daily changes in temperature..not to mention it looks like crap.. looking like cross section view of swells on an ocean, (peaks and valleys)  dipping down between each insulator.
I can drive down the road at normal speed, and just from my truck window tell every fence that was put up using low carbon wire, just from the sag in it, and more than likely, when it was initially installed, it was pulled reasonably tight.
How tight to tension HT wire?
Stop right before the breaking point.  
I pull on it till I'm scared to pull even another click on the stretcher..or my arms give out...whichever comes first.


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## mystang89 (Mar 13, 2018)

Thank you for answering all these various questions I've been tossing at you all btw. This information, in such a concise place, is invaluable. I've learned more in the past year about this than I ever could have otherwise.


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## mystang89 (Mar 17, 2018)

@Bruce what insulator did you use for your wood posts such as the H braces? (Not the actual H post of it of course) My posts are locus trees I cut down so the are not all the same size not perfectly round so I wanted something to offset the wire. The only thing I found for wood was https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/wood-line-post-insulators?criteria=380711&species_id=0&cat_id=0
I really don't want to have to screw in 56 if those though especially after seeing the reviews on that particular item.

I found  http://www.zarebasystems.com/zareba-economy-insulators-with-nails-iwknb-zc

or the ones that are slanted which keeps it about an inch out. 

These https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/nailon-insulator?cat_id=46 just don't seem like they would keep it far enough out since the wire won't be perfectly (in any sense of the word) straight.


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## greybeard (Mar 17, 2018)

I'm not Bruce, but I quit using the claw type insulators and use only pin type, both for wood posts and tee posts.  1" out from the post is plenty far in regards to the pulse not being able to jump the air space but there are others that are 2"  extended out, especially the slant nail insulators. 
I have not had good luck with any of the longer yellow ones that are so inexpensive...the sun here seems to make them brittle and they break. 
I haven't had that problem with the black ones.


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## Bruce (Mar 17, 2018)

I don't have any insulators on the braces, they are below the hot wire and ground wires.

If you need to screw insulators in, I suggest pre-drilling with the appropriate size bit. I was able to get mine in almost all the way then crack the plastic trying to get the last 1/4". If you do need to keep wire off the uneven brace posts, I would GUESS the first you posted would be OK, put it in the most projecting part of the brace even if that isn't in the mid-point. The braces aren't long enough to usually need an insulator if you've already got them on the posts.


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## mystang89 (Mar 18, 2018)

Thanks for the replies you all!
@Bruce  I think I wasn't clear by about the h braces. I didn't mean the horizontal wood that formed the H but the posts that the horizontal piece was connected to.

@greybeard that's great to know about the pin type. For one they are much cheaper. Two, they are much easier to install. I do have a couple of trees though that I think I will still buy the screw in insulators. I think I read one of the reviews for the pin ones and it said they are pushed out of the tree over time.


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## mystang89 (Mar 19, 2018)

Has anyone used these. They seem to have a few decent reviews but figured I'd ask anyway.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Expandable-E...16-Z-Zareba-Systems-/152061862059?_mwBanner=1


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## greybeard (Mar 19, 2018)

I've used a smaller version that's been around since Moby Dick was a minnow and Capt Ahab was seaman apprentice. Not a dime's worth of difference in any of them. Just a spring, an insulated grip and a place on each end to attach the wire or hook the handle to a wire or loop.
The one you linked to just has a lot longer spring.


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## mystang89 (Mar 20, 2018)

I bought two of them. I was hoping it would help the children not to leave the gate wire just dangling since it retracted. Still have 3 of the regular ones.


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## mystang89 (Apr 7, 2018)

HUGE EDIT:  I just went and walked the line and found the problem.  One of my insulators had fallen off an irregular t post and so the wire was touching the post/fence.  I fixed that problem and went to the furthest part of my line which read 7000+v.  Happy to finally have this project finished.  Happy to finally know my dog and sheep are safe INSIDE my pasture and that I have a deterrent for coyotes coming in.


Ok, so we finally finished the project and there's some good and some bad.  The good is that it work...ish.  The bad is that it doesn't work completely which is why I'm posting this right now.  First I'll run down the items used.  I've used a combination of insulators.  For the t-posts and wood posts I've used:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/T-Post-Ins...h-Insulators-for-Electric-Fence-/320924082736
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Zareba-...g-T-Post-Insulator-25-Per-Bag-ITY-Z/203266569
http://www.kencove.com/fence/T-Post+Cap+Insulator_detail_ITPCW.php
https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/...MIo9PD7oCp2gIVRbXACh0CYwzHEAQYBSABEgLkYvD_BwE
https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/...MIo9PD7oCp2gIVRbXACh0CYwzHEAQYAiABEgLHYfD_BwE
https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/...MIo9PD7oCp2gIVRbXACh0CYwzHEAQYBCABEgLfhfD_BwE
https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/supatube-for-high-tensile-wire?cat_id=46&option_id[0]=82
https://www.jefferspet.com/products...MIp5aexIGp2gIV07jACh0nJAjxEAQYAyABEgJhofD_BwE
The SupaTube insulators I used mainly to go from the hotwire to the expandable gate wire seen here https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zareba-16-ft-Expandable-Electric-Fence-Gate-/251753368670
I purchased 50' of that same insulator and slid the hotwire in it to run around the barn.
The furthest the wire is away from the fence, (which is 4x4 sheep and goat fence) is 2 1/2".  The closest is probably 1/2" but isn't touching the fence or anything all the way down the run.  A picture of the run can actually be seen https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/installing-hot-wire.36390/page-5 at the very top of the page.  The charger I'm using is http://www.zarebasystems.com/resources/zareba-25-mile-ac-low-impedance-charger-eac25m-z/images/0 and I'm running around 1300feet of wire.

Now that all the hardware is out of the way I can get on to the problem.  I purchased a 5 light tester which ranges from 600v to 7000v.  Coming from the charger its 7k no problem.  Once I hit the hotwire itself it falls to 2000v.  The further down the line I go the less it is.  About 500feet down the run I get nothing at all.  I'm able to touch with my bare hands and not get shocked.  When I called Zareba to ask them to help me trouble shoot the problem I was told my problem was probably because the line was too close to the fence and so the fence was zapping the electricity from it.  Is this really the case?  They said the wire would need to be at least 5" from the fence.  It's literally around 500ft that I can't even hear the ping anymore.  If that is the problem I'll be completely honest, I won't be a happy camper.  I've spent a great deal of money on all the insulators.  Why would they make insulators that aren't 5" away from the t-posts?  Why would they make insulators for wood posts that were right next to it if this stuff grounds out or gets sucked out or whatever?

Skipping past my griping and rambling....within that 500ft there isn't really any place that the wire is terribly close to the fence.


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## greybeard (Apr 7, 2018)

My opinion? I'll be as sensitive and politically correct as possible here.
Zareba's guy  is full of feces, and you can take that to the bank in Denver..
But, I know where he's getting it from. There's a many decades old adage floating about that says: _You need 1" of air gap per 1000 volts". 
_
The electrons, to flow thru (jump) air, the air first has to be ionized, and to ionize clean dry air (not heavily polluted) requires immense voltage potential. For this to happen (the ionization) it requires about 3 million volts per linear yard or 75,000 volts per inch. Look at the bare hot wire on power lines. The one in front of my house carries 48,000 volts and the insulators are such that the bare wire is about 6-8" away from the (right now) wet wooden cross members.

The much more correct rule of thumb is 'for every 1000 volts (1kv) an air gap of 1 millimeter (.039" or approx 1/16") is usually sufficient'. That means, for 5000v,  an air gap of .195" or 5/16" will usually work, tho in wet air conditions, you'd probably need to go a whole 1/2 inch to insulate 5000v just to give ya a cushion.

You either have ground rod problems, have an underground metal pipe run close to your energizer, or one of your wires is touching something.


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## greybeard (Apr 7, 2018)

BTW, I f you talk to Zareba guy again, you might ask him why they make and sell many thousands of these insulators that are carrying the bare wire a scant 1" or less away from the Tee posts.






Air gap calculator:
https://sciencing.com/calculate-voltage-spark-gaps-8776030.html


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## Bruce (Apr 7, 2018)

GB already posted in his second post what I was going to say! And, of course, nailed your problem with the last sentence of his first.

Congratulations on getting your fence done!!


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## mystang89 (Apr 7, 2018)

Thanks, it was definitely that wire touching the t post that messed everything up.  Reading 7000 volts across the board now and couldn't be happier to have it successfully finished.


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## greybeard (Apr 7, 2018)

Now that you have it done, some time in the near future, you will be well served to get one of the better fence testers that give you a lot more information than just the voltage on the fence. (assuming you don't already have one)
They cost a lot more than just the ground probe type unit but can tell you so much more.
There's a thread in this section about them.


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## Bruce (Apr 8, 2018)

This one perhaps?
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/fence-tester-fault-finder.37411/


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