# Pedigree Question



## rowegirl (Mar 7, 2017)

I am wanting to eventually work up to having an all pedigreed netherland dwarf herd. I bought a buck and a doe before I knew about pedigrees and registering so they do not have pedigrees. I am currently buying a false Charlie with the option of a pedigree for just $10 more. I hadn't heard of Charlies before so I read up on them and found out that they are non showable. So my question is should I pay the extra $10 for the pedigree or not worry about it?


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## Marie28 (Mar 7, 2017)

I have no knowledge about being non-showable, and I've just gotten in to rabbits. All 3 of our rabbits had pedigrees ( meaning that I have the name, weight, and color/breed for 4 generations) and I did not pay extra for them to give me a printed piece of paper... Is it normal to pay extra? 
I would think that if your goal is to have a great pedigreed line then you should get only rabbits with pedigrees and give yourself a head start.


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## rowegirl (Mar 7, 2017)

I am just starting out with rabbits too so I am not sure what the norm is. I just bought my daughter a holland lop and I told the lady I wanted him only as a pet but price never changed and I got his pedigree.  I know around here in tn they sell pedigreed rabbits for a few dollars less to people who just want pets. The Charlie I'm getting has a pedigree but I didn't know if it was worth paying extra for his pedigree since he isn't showable.


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## promiseacres (Mar 7, 2017)

If you're going to raise rabbits long term (yes even pets and meat ) a pedigree is invaluable. You know your rabbits history. Helps with color genetics, many have show placings, and helps make breeding decisions. Only if you're wanting a pet without intentions of breeding would I not get one. If you do get into showing and later decide to register a rabbit you must have a complete pedigree. If you're a serious about being a rabbitry with a good reputation you need pedigrees. Personally I wouldn't look twice at one without it.
a Charlie can work well with a broken (spotted) breeding program. Some people do sell cheaper without the pedigree. I have done this in the past.


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## rowegirl (Mar 7, 2017)

Thank you @promiseacres I was leaning that way until I saw that about being non showable. But I do see what you mean. I am wanting to have a great rabbitry so I will get his pedigree. I am still learning about genetics and am planning on joining ARBA and the ANDRC.


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## DutchBunny03 (Mar 7, 2017)

If showing is what you want to do, buying a non-showable rabbit, even with a pedigree, is the opposite of helpful. Its offspring could be non-showable, and while that is not a guarentee, it is a big possibility. Then you are stuck with a bunch of non-showable rabbits. 
Joining the ARBA is a great idea. It allows you to win a GC certificate, which is a possibility if you breed and manage your rabbits well.


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## rowegirl (Mar 7, 2017)

I will definitely keep reading up on it.


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## firedragon1982 (Mar 8, 2017)

I know that if you breed for 3 generations and keep records, they can "become" pedigreed, but that takes time and patience... However I have 0 patience... lol! Considering how my first litter is still about 6 weeks away from being breeding age, 2nd litters not due for another 3 weeks....


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## HaloRabbits (Mar 20, 2017)

rowegirl said:


> I am wanting to eventually work up to having an all pedigreed netherland dwarf herd. I bought a buck and a doe before I knew about pedigrees and registering so they do not have pedigrees. I am currently buying a false Charlie with the option of a pedigree for just $10 more. I hadn't heard of Charlies before so I read up on them and found out that they are non showable. So my question is should I pay the extra $10 for the pedigree or not worry about it?



You said it is a false Charlie, so I wouldn't worry about its children being non-showable. Even if it was a true Charlie I wouldn't worry about this. Just Don't breed it to a broken because then they could both give the modifiers that give the amount of white that makes your bunny a false charlie, if your rabbit is a false charlie, it is truly a very marked broken and 2 broken rabbits have a 25% chance of creating a true Charlie. I would breed your rabbit to a solid (preferably one that doesn't come from a long line of brokens because if it does come from a long line of brokens it could still have those same modifiers mentioned above). 

@DutchBunny03 I both agree and disagree with your comment . I say this because the reason the rabbit is not showable is a BIG determinate. If the rabbit isn't showable because it is a false charlie, it could still have solid kits (when bred to a solid or a broken). If the reason the rabbit was unshowable was something, for example, like a vienna marking or improper eye color then I would 100% agree with you because those things are harder to prevent and also could linger as a recessive gene and if you were to sell a bunny as a breeder you could be introducing that fault into someone elses line. Make  sense? 

I am new-ish to rabbits but I study Biology in college, I graduate (again) in May !!! Genetics is amazing and I love it. I love working with genetics and used to breed fish, chickens, and dogs. I now only breed Darkling beetles and Rabbits .


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## rowegirl (Mar 21, 2017)

Thank you @HaloRabbits! I have been reading up on it and that is what I have found as well. It was nice to hear it from someone else!


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## DutchBunny03 (Mar 21, 2017)

@HaloRabbits , I understand your point. You are far more knowledgeable than me about genetics. But in show breeding, you are sometimes better safe than sorry. You could, and quite possibly will, get showable offspring, which would still carry the nonshowable gene. You sell that rabbit to someone, they breed it, and get nonshowable offspring, and now they are stuck with almost useless rabbits. The same could happen to you, the owner. What use is being a show breeder if you have a bunch of rabbits you can't show? When starting out, it is best to get the best possible rabbits, as long as they are not unreasonably priced. That way, there is no need to go buy other rabbits later on, because your first rabbits were unshowable themselves, or had unshowable offspring. If possible, check the pedigree of the rabbit you are buying to be sure it does not have any recessive nonshowable genes, such as a woolly coat in a NZ or Harlequin markings in a Dutch. 
Hope you do well in your college class!!!


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## HaloRabbits (Mar 21, 2017)

@DutchBunny03 I totally get your point. I don't show, and I do myself have all pedigreed rabbits but some are not showable because of a gene introduced when someone created the blue rabbit line. IF i were showing, I would not be using this rabbit as a breeder because of unnecessary risk. That is why I love sites like this, so many unique perspectives and I learn so much ! Thank you


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## DutchBunny03 (Mar 26, 2017)

I have not been showing for all that long, but it's a lot of fun. Shows are also a good place to buy and sell rabbits. 
It would be great if the ARBA would focus more on body type and overall condition of the rabbit shown, rather than just markings. I've seen some rabbits in not-so-great condition placing high in shows, all because the rabbit had good markings. There are so many great colors and patterns you don't see at shows because they aren't accepted by the breed standard.


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