# What do you do with your "spare" goat kids?



## babsbag (Jul 25, 2012)

Raising goats has one big draw back...if you want to milk them you need to breed them, unless you are the lucky person who owns a goat that will milk through. So I can only support my goat habit to a degree, I have gone from 3 to over 15 in 4 years. I am at my limit space and money wise. 

So right now I have 3 wether kids for sale, 2 are Alpine, one is Togg/LaMancha cross and 1 yearling Alpine doe, and 3 doe kids. With the economy being what it is, at least in CA, no one is buying goats. I can't even sell a reg. doeling for 75.00. Granted I don't show or participate in any of the ADGA appraisal programs, but these kids sires come from some great milking lines. My heard is happy and healthy and tested for CAE/CL. 

So short of sending them to slaughter at our local auction how do you sell your crop of kids from each season?

I am already keeping 4 boer kids, and 2 new doelings. The madness has to stop.

Ideas??


----------



## poorboys (Jul 25, 2012)

it's bad when you have good reg kids and can't sell, but if mine don't sell and this is the boer goats i take to auction, or feed out for meat, as for the dairy bucks, you can cut your losses and sell cheap, butcher them (not what i would do) or take to auction. right now in some places it's a tough market. sorry you have to do someting.


----------



## ksalvagno (Jul 25, 2012)

I would either put them in the freezer or send to auction. I have to admit that I would probably try and hold onto the females for as long as possible though.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jul 25, 2012)

We decide on our keepers and we sell the rest by 4 to 6 months of age, or if not sold we take them to auction. It just makes everything too much work to keep something we really didn't want or can't afford to feed, have space to keep or have time to tend to.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jul 25, 2012)

From what I've seen recently you have to off the boys cheap when they're pretty young(before you put so much time and effort into them).  There was a "breeder" in chico selling dairy doelings $100 each and the bucklings were pretty cheap..    And the doelings are still going for about $100/each so you feed them the whole while, deworm and vaccinate them, and you still have a goat thats worth the same amount.  I have a doeling and 2 young wethers. I dont mind having boys because they're pets, I just couldnt go out and spend that much on a goat right now. Last goat I got I traded some young black copper marans for him.  Trades, Trade for labor, the auction, the freezer.. I personally dont butcher my own animals.. and I'm too much of a softy to take someone to the auction. I did have to send a really obnoxious boer/nubian boy to the freezer but I gave him away to someone who would butcher and use him for meat. It wasn't even worth dealing with the craigslist crazies!


----------



## Harbisgirl (Jul 25, 2012)

I've seen the CL ads for Chico and Orville too. I don't have goats (yet) but I can say that from a newbie point of view, we're looking for registered ones. At least I am. I've been lurking in this and other goat forums and I everyone stresses the importance of getting a proven quality, registered doe to ensure good milk production. Since I'm new I don't know any better and wouldn't know how to inspect a goat or what to look for or ask about on my own, so I'd be depending on breeder reputation and if they are registered. Since you have neither, personally I'd be too scared to buy from you if I saw that ad on CL. Are you able to register them and perhaps include some details about production in your CL ad? If no, I think the idea of trading is a great idea.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jul 25, 2012)

*I haven't had to breed my Does yet, but I will have babies in February to sell. I was talking to my local vet and told them I was worried about selling the babies and they said there is a huge market for goats.  Maybe your ads need to be revamped? 


I'm hoping I won't have a problem selling mine when I have them! *


----------



## babsbag (Jul 25, 2012)

The doelings are registered with ADGA and their sire is from a top production line and breeder in California and my does are all reigisterd; either 100% Alpine or some Experimental, but still registered and showable if someone wanted to do that.  The owner of the sire does show her goats, it is just my does that I don't show, but they are registered. I just use them for milk and for fun. Maybe someday I might show but right now with work it is more than I want to take on. I dam raise my kids too so the milk production that I would record, if I did that, wouldn't be an accurate amount since the kids are sharing with me. 

The kids were all born in April-May so they are rather young still. I haven't been to the auction near me but I am told that any goat that goes there is destined for freezer camp. I had 3 of our wethers butchered last year and have 4 Alpine/boer crosses destined for that again so I am not in need of any more goat meat for the freezer. I would be willing to give the wethers away if I knew they were going to a safe home, they are both sweethearts. I just don't want to say that on Craigslist, that would really bring in the crazies. At 17.00 a bale for alfalfa it gets expensive fast to hang on to them.

I thought that if I kept them and sold the does next year as milkers they might move, but I had a 2 year old milker for sale for months before I finally sold her and only one person even answered the ad. I sold her in milk for 150.00. I thought that to be a bargain for a registered doe, and I threw in stud service for next year if she wants it.

Is it just CA that is overrun with unwanted goats?

I wish I could just run a home for goats.


----------



## Catahoula (Jul 25, 2012)

I don't think it is just CA. Many farms in CO are downsizing because of price of hay or too many goats. One farm I found sells their nubian wethers for $10! I would like couple more boers but am having second thoughts because of the feed price. 
Sorry to hear you are up to your limits on space and budget.


----------



## PendergrassRanch (Jul 25, 2012)

Our boers will be bred specifically to feed the dogs and us.  Straight to the freezer for them!


----------



## babsbag (Jul 25, 2012)

PendergrassRanch said:
			
		

> Our boers will be bred specifically to feed the dogs and us.  Straight to the freezer for them!


This is the first year I have had boers and I sold three doelings and their dam the day I posted the ad. Probably could have sold them 3 times over. I also have some spotted boer doelings and a spotted buck that I am keeping. People will pay for color, so I am breeding boers specifically for that. Strange to think that in this economy people will pay for colored goats, but they do, and I know I did. 

The dairy stock is another matter. I started with 3 does and the first year they had three doelings so I kept them all. That was mistake number one. That was when hay was 11.00 a bale, and I thought that was bad. Since then I have come to realize that if I am not showing my goats and I don't have a * milker then most people don't want them, at least not in CA. I used to think I could just offer them a good family milker but it seems in this area people want to have the BEST or none and those of us with just goats are having a hard time finding homes for them, even if they are ADGA reg animals. It is sad to think that a title matters that much. The milk taste the same


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jul 26, 2012)

Do you think your sales would be better if you just go ahead and cross more of your dairy does with a boer buck and beable to offer 50% boer doelings and then more of your wethers could go for meet?  I know my 75% beor /Nubians sell really well.  I got over $300 each for a couple of them down to $150 for a few of them and we don't show.  But I do use a fullblood registered Boer buck and always make sure he comes from good lines.  But they almost all sold, I still have a couple younger onse left that were just weaned. 

We paid $250.00 each 10 years ago for 50% boer/nubian doelings. We had all of htem up to this year and still have one of them for next year. They are wonderful does. 

Also there is a pretty big market for Boer/dairy recipient does for the boer industry. 

And boer doelings sell like crazy.  Maybe you could just slowly transition over to boer goats and milk them. If you alternate breeding them, you would have milk all year.  They only milk for 3 or 4 months and you would have to be careful about udder quality, but it is possible to  milk them.  Our boer bottle babies sold like hot cakes. We had 2 this year that were on a bottle. And I could have sold them several times over for  a pretty good price.

Just really rambling and throwing out thoughts. 

good luck on your sales.


----------



## GLENMAR (Jul 26, 2012)

That is what I plan on doing. I bought registered Nubians from good milking lines to start my dairy herd. Once build up the herd to get the limit that I want to keep,
I plan on breeding some to boers to sell the kids for the freezer, or put some in there myself.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jul 26, 2012)

Northern Ca I'd say aim for full boer or nothing for meat goats from what I've noticed. Although every year is probably different and I just started paying close attention this year. I dont think an alpine/boer cross would be easy to sell when we have so many nubian/boers and pure boers around. I could be wrong though. Whats the worst that can happen, you have more kids you cannot rehome! The boers are going for about the same as dairy goats so I guess whatever is easiest to sell. I do think you would do better with your dappled boers here because most people seem to have traditionals. I see a lot of horned trads.  

Let me just share a little story though. I emailed about a mini nubian on craigslist. The ad had been up for a while and had gotten bumped a few times with the price being dropped when it did. So I emailed the girl and never heard back. I Wanted this goat! Had been eyeing him and even showed the ad to dbf. Never got a response, figured she already sold him. A couple days later I posted an add 'trade marans for goat' and guess who emailed me. The mini nubian lady. She said she never got my email and she's been getting pretty desperate to get rid of him and even thought about sending him to the freezer. Said not a single person emailed about him and she was wondering why. So I think craigslist email is a little spotty. Ever post those adds you feel no one is seeing?! Or email someone and never hear back?

I feel like I'm going to be the one that runs the rescue wether farm someday.. I dont need milk, I just want a little eventually for bottle raise kittens, and to make soap maybe.  We are in no shortage of brush and berry vines, I just need a bigger goat pen!


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jul 26, 2012)

CrazyCatNChickenLady said:
			
		

> Northern Ca I'd say aim for full boer or nothing for meat goats from what I've noticed. Although every year is probably different and I just started paying close attention this year. I dont think an alpine/boer cross would be easy to sell when we have so many nubian/boers and pure boers around. I could be wrong though. Whats the worst that can happen, you have more kids you cannot rehome! The boers are going for about the same as dairy goats so I guess whatever is easiest to sell. I do think you would do better with your dappled boers here because most people seem to have traditionals. I see a lot of horned trads.
> 
> Let me just share a little story though. I emailed about a mini nubian on craigslist. The ad had been up for a while and had gotten bumped a few times with the price being dropped when it did. So I emailed the girl and never heard back. I Wanted this goat! Had been eyeing him and even showed the ad to dbf. Never got a response, figured she already sold him. A couple days later I posted an add 'trade marans for goat' and guess who emailed me. The mini nubian lady. She said she never got my email and she's been getting pretty desperate to get rid of him and even thought about sending him to the freezer. Said not a single person emailed about him and she was wondering why. So I think craigslist email is a little spotty. Ever post those adds you feel no one is seeing?! Or email someone and never hear back?
> 
> I feel like I'm going to be the one that runs the rescue wether farm someday.. I dont need milk, I just want a little eventually for bottle raise kittens, and to make soap maybe.  We are in no shortage of brush and berry vines, I just need a bigger goat pen!


I have had the same issues with craigslist, so I always post my phone number.  I have always questioned how dependable craiglist e-mailing is.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jul 26, 2012)

GLENMAR said:
			
		

> That is what I plan on doing. I bought registered Nubians from good milking lines to start my dairy herd. Once build up the herd to get the limit that I want to keep,
> I plan on breeding some to boers to sell the kids for the freezer, or put some in there myself.


Don't over look selling the 50/50 does for breeding. it should just be the males you have to put in the freezer.  They aren't showable, but they would be good for someone wanting fast growing commercial kids or building onto them and adding more boer to them.


----------



## DonnaBelle (Jul 26, 2012)

Yes, I don't like the CL email system either.

I just put a phone number in.  That works much better.

DonnaBelle


----------



## Catahoula (Jul 26, 2012)

I have couple dappled boer wethers as pets. One is 94% and one is 88%. They just seem too pretty to be eaten.  Even for show, do many of the show goats alternately become food? I really would like maybe couple more goats, other than the price of raising them, cleaning after them is the main reason why I don't want anymore.... 

If you can do it, perhaps you can raise more goats and sell the meat rather than live goats. I was toying with the idea to raising couple kids for meat but it was easier to just buy them. The farm I can get meat from raise lots of goats to be butchered. The owners were surprised how well goat meat sells at Farmer's  Markets when they first started.


----------



## babsbag (Jul 26, 2012)

I think the boer/nubian cross is more likely to sell than boer/alpine. People get turned off by the flying nun ears. But milking a boer is not a bad idea. In my boer herd I have all ff so it is hard to say what they will do next year, but my friend has a boer that would rival any dairy stock. The other thing about my personal goats is that the boers are easier to handle and friendlier. It is really all Rolls' fault that I have boers to begin with; it was her adorable spotted kid that got me hooked, but I am glad I did.  

I don't need alot of milk, so having dairy stock that I don't show is a little crazy. My first 2 goats have squatters rights for life, but really the rest of my Alpines could go away if I had a some decent boers to milk. I will have to give that some serious thought. Thanks for the idea. I have been breeding "up" with my Alpines each year, but there is really no reason for me to do so, it has just been a personal choice that is getting too expensive. 

I have one doeling out there right now whose sire is in the ADGA sire development program. She really should be in a home that shows and does milk tests, but I don't know that that will happen at my house. My friend has never bred that buck to any does other than hers so I feel a little obligated to keep this one. When  I took my doe to her house for breeding it was wet and cold and her younger buck just wasn't getting the job done so she just threw her in with the older buck and wham bam, 5 minutes later the deed was done and we were out of the cold. I would probably sell her if she was going into the right environment, one that would do her/him justice.

I still like the thought of milking the boers. hmmmm


----------



## babsbag (Jul 26, 2012)

Catahoula said:
			
		

> I have couple dappled boer wethers as pets. One is 94% and one is 88%. They just seem too pretty to be eaten.  Even for show, do many of the show goats alternately become food? I really would like maybe couple more goats, other than the price of raising them, cleaning after them is the main reason why I don't want anymore....
> 
> If you can do it, perhaps you can raise more goats and sell the meat rather than live goats. I was toying with the idea to raising couple kids for meat but it was easier to just buy them. The farm I can get meat from raise lots of goats to be butchered. The owners were surprised how well goat meat sells at Farmer's  Markets when they first started.


Do they actually sell the meat ready to cook? I can only imagine the laws around that idea in the great over-regulated state of CA.  It is funny, we can all go buy cigarettes and smoke ourselves to death, or alchol to drink and kill ourselves or someone else, but heaven forbid that I want to buy fresh milk. That white stuff that comes from a goat or cow is sure to do me in.  Go figure. If we could do herd shares in CA then I would be right on board with having my dairy does, but since we can't even give the milk away that is a dead end market as well.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jul 26, 2012)

babsbag said:
			
		

> Catahoula said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In VA inorder to sell the processed meat at a farmers market you have to take the goat to a USDA butcher shop and have them proccess it for you, then you can sell it at farmer markets by the lb frozen. You do have to keep it in a separate freezer that is inspected.


----------



## babsbag (Jul 26, 2012)

We have a USDA processing plant not too far from us. I should find out what they charge. I paid a 40.00 kill fee and .60 a lb hanging weight for a non USDA butcher. It wasn't cheap meat, but I don't think anything is anymore. We have a new inspector for farmer's markets in our county and he is cracking down on everything. I am sure there is some kind of permit I would need other than a seller's permit, but maybe not. I should explore that avenue too. If I am going to breed boers for color (and confirmation to some degree) I am going to have some that don't make the cut as breeders so I will have to find an outlet for them too. 

More land??? More money and time???  That would work.


----------



## Catahoula (Jul 26, 2012)

babsbag said:
			
		

> Catahoula said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, they have goat meat in frozen packages. They don't butcher the goat and the butcher they use is USDA certified.  We just move to CO from CA last year. Couple years ago, we bought 1/4 cow from a farm in Oakdale,CA. They take the cows for butchering somewhere in the East Bay. I picked up the frozen already packaged meat from them after it was processed. this year we got 1/4 bison in CO. I think the goat farm is doing similar sales as the bison farm. If you are interested, maybe you can check into it. Since you are not actually processing the meat, it may be different regulation. The goat meat I got...$15/lb for the chops, $9/lb for leg of goat and $7/lb for the ribs. I wanted to try goat meat.


----------



## babsbag (Jul 26, 2012)

Catahoula said:
			
		

> The goat meat I got...$15/lb for the chops, $9/lb for leg of goat and $7/lb for the ribs. I wanted to try goat meat.


WOW. I am surprised at the prices and that they sell any. I guess I don't know my goat meat prices at all. I was thinking a person would be lucky to sell it for 1/2 of those prices. definately something to look into. Thanks for the idea.


----------



## Catahoula (Jul 26, 2012)

babsbag said:
			
		

> Catahoula said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha...it does sound very expensive. It was worth it for us. The goat is 100% organic alfalfa hay fed (no grains). The meat was better than I expected. I have never seen goat meat on the open market and I think many people would want to try it too. It tasted much better than lamb. I do like bison better so we got bison meat. When my brother in law or mom come visit, I'll get them goat meat.


----------



## PendergrassRanch (Jul 26, 2012)

babsbag said:
			
		

> PendergrassRanch said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If Anderson is your current town, then you are not so far from us.  Maybe I'll check out your stock when we get our fencing done and are finally in the market!


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jul 26, 2012)

babsbag said:
			
		

> Catahoula said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*You can still sell the milk for soap, bathing, bottle feeding baby animals and anything else you can think of that doesn't involve ingesting it. *


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jul 26, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> babsbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*X2, here too. *


----------



## babsbag (Jul 26, 2012)

PendergrassRanch said:
			
		

> If Anderson is your current town, then you are not so far from us.  Maybe I'll check out your stock when we get our fencing done and are finally in the market!


Anderson is my current town. When you get ready for your goats and you are looking for dairy, if I don't have anything I have friends that might. I belong to the North Valley Dairy Goat Association so I know quite of few breeders with quality animals, in just about all breeds. 

I should try and sell the milk for other things. I do make soap and lotion, and market it, but there really isn't that much milk in either of those products. I make a lot of cheese, but not really on the diet so I have to watch that too. Last year I gave a bunch to a lady who had rescued an orphaned foal. It was a good cause and I didn't mind at all, but it didn't help pay for the hay.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jul 27, 2012)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> babsbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that might be true i VA, but it depends what state you live in.  Is it legal in CA to sell raw milk as pet food?  You would for sure have to check with state laws on that.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jul 27, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> WhiteMountainsRanch said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


People are doing it. Not sure of the laws though.  When I breed my girl I plan on giving some of the milk up for infant kittens. http://chico.craigslist.org/grd/3114105113.html $10/gallon _for_ _*animals*_!?!

ETA: These are the same people I got a lactating week old lamancha from. Basically a puppy mill of the goat world IMO.


----------



## babsbag (Jul 27, 2012)

I don't know if you can sell the raw milk for anything in CA. But what I do know is that the USDA will call people that advertise goats for sale, or through our webpages and ask if we have milk for sale. They will give some excuse, animal feed, lactose intolerant, soap, etc. And as soon as you say yes they are at your door to serve you with a warrant. We are all very careful about who we talk to about our milk and we NEVER sell/or give it to stranges.  

I really really wish CA had a herd share law in place. The thing is we don't, therefore you aren't running one legally or illegally, but it is scarey when you read what the USDA can do at your farm if they decide you are breaking a law. They ask questions later. I am too old to fight that battle.


----------



## Catahoula (Jul 27, 2012)

Selling raw milk in Colorado is also not legal. However, people are able to purchase "shares" into a herd and pay a monthly boarding fee to care for the animals in exchange for a portion of the milk production. I found lots of ads on milk share on CL. I also see ads selling goat milk for animal consumption only. CA maybe more strict and maybe the ADGA or local 4H club would have info on that? 
Good Luck.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jul 27, 2012)

I emailed someone at the California Food and Ag Dept. I dont have any goats old enough to be milked or bred so I'm not worried about them coming and telling me I'm selling milk illegally. Hopefully I'll get a response. I made it clear I was wanting to know if anyone could give away or sell milk for *animal* consumption. Or even to make lotions or soaps with it, but specified NOT for human consumption. So we'll see.  How did we go from spare kids to milk regulations??


----------



## Catahoula (Jul 27, 2012)

CrazyCatNChickenLady said:
			
		

> How did we go from spare kids to milk regulations??


It was suggested that the 'spare' goat could be turned into a 'working' goat...to earn its keep by producing milk that can be sold. With different rules and regulation in different States, guess we are all wondering.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jul 27, 2012)

Catahoula said:
			
		

> CrazyCatNChickenLady said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good! I was just making sure I wasn't hijacking it. lol

I think I'll get a reply sometime next week considering its friday!


----------



## Pearce Pastures (Jul 27, 2012)

http://www.realmilk.com/milk-laws-1.html

Milk laws and statutes by state.


----------



## babsbag (Jul 27, 2012)

Let me know what they say regarding selling milk. If they do answer you make sure you get the name of the person that tells you and ask for a regulation code section if possible. Better to CYA before you are milking goats. 

It just seems ridiculous that each state is different. Making cheese in CA for sale is next to impossible unless you are a licensed dairy and then the milking regulations would break the bank unless you have a bunch of money to spend. The milk has to go directly from the goat, through a chiller, and then to the bulk tank. In other states you can milk into a bucket and carry the milk into the cheese making area. I know that in some states you can sell aged cheese and not have to be licensed for raw milk, and then in other states you have to be. I have a friend that is the cheese maker at a dairy near me and she says that CA is one of the strictest states when it comes to milk handling laws.

If my husband didn't work for the state I might seriously consider moving.


----------



## Harbisgirl (Jul 28, 2012)

If we can't buy milk here in CA, can you trade for it? Since its not technically 'selling'? Probably not since the issue is about human consumption. Just thought I'd ask.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jul 28, 2012)

You cant even give it away for human consumption. The more I read the more I think you cannot part with your milk at all without the proper milking and dairy permits here in ca. If I don't get an email response, I'll call next week. Now I want to know! because I'm breeding my girl end of the year hopefully for her to raise her own kids and for me to steal a little milk. I'm too squeemish to eat eggs.. how could I drink the milk from my goat!  And how could I even think of giving it away (for orphaned kittens) if i haven't even tried it myself. Former city slicker thinks milk comes from a carton at the store.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jul 30, 2012)

So I got a response today. 



> Your message reached the Milk and Dairy Food Safety Branch which only
> addresses human dairy food issues.
> 
> I believe there is some licensing requirement for pet food but am not
> ...


I called the number and spoke with someone at the department of public health. She pointed me back to the CDFA. I told her I was wondering about giving it away to cat rescues. She said maybe call rescues to see if they've heard of any regulations or have done that sort of thing before. So back to square one?


----------



## ragdollcatlady (Jul 30, 2012)

> Northern Ca I'd say aim for full boer or nothing for meat goats from what I've noticed. Although every year is probably different and I just started paying close attention this year. I dont think an alpine/boer cross would be easy to sell when we have so many nubian/boers and pure boers around. I could be wrong though. Whats the worst that can happen, you have more kids you cannot rehome! The boers are going for about the same as dairy goats so I guess whatever is easiest to sell. I do think you would do better with your dappled boers here because most people seem to have traditionals. I see a lot of horned trads.


I agree with that. There are so many pure boers and purcentage with nubian here in CA, that if I were buying for meat...unless of course they were WAY cheaper, I would go with pure or high percentage crosses. I wouldn't waste my time on any other dairy cross. You lose a lot of muscle and fast growth slows down when you downgrade to dairy type. 

I was just looking at maybe getting a few boers and really like the colors, spots especially....are you going to have any babies available in spring? I would need them disbudded though. I don't do horns.  
PM me if you like. I am in central CA but I can drive....

Kat


----------

