# More Feed?



## Stacykins (Aug 10, 2012)

I just took weights on my two Nigerian Dwarf girls, and am a bit surprised at much much they do NOT weigh. Hefting them, I really thought they weighed more. I stood on a scale and held them for a weigh, subtracting my weight (which I took right then for accuracy). Unless the scale is off...

Suzie Q weighs 20lbs, and she was born in February. Dulce de Leche was 25lbs, and was born in March. 

Their diet is free choice hay (alfalfa mix), and at night 1/2 cup of purina goat chow and a tablespoon of BOSS each. Plus whatever browse they eat during the day. I didn't want to overdoo the grain, but I guess they might need more. I got some calf manna to add to their diet. So, eventually, how much should I work up to, for both the calf manna and the goat chow per day? Should I feed the grain by weight or volume (ounces and lbs or cups)? Whatever they get each day, they'll get it in two meals, one morning and one evening.


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## DonnaBelle (Aug 10, 2012)

Girl, I don't know what Nigerian Dwarfs are supposed to weigh, but that's a serious question and I'm giving you a bump.

DonnaBelle


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## Goatherd (Aug 11, 2012)

I wouldn't matter if your scale was off or not.  The combined weight, minus your weight, will tell you what they weigh regardless of the actual numbers.  If you weighed 100 pounds and then 80 when you re-weighed yourself, the goat would weigh twenty pounds.  If you weighed 300 pounds, then 280 after the re-weigh, the goat would still weigh 20 pounds.

Your goats may or may not be underweight.  If you have photos, that would help considerably in making the assessment.  All animals are individuals and have specific and personal body structure.  Possibly a 20# goat, based upon it's individual build, isn't too small at all.  Possibly not.

I am a proponent of feeding grain and from what you say you are feeding, I would say it's sounds like a bare minimum amount.  It's easy to say "cups and tablespoons," but some don't actually measure and just estimate what they feed.  If you are truly feeding 1 tablespoon of BOSS, I would humorously say "that's like peeing in the ocean."  It really wouldn't make any difference at all.  One tablespoon is virtually nothing in the scheme of their diet.  Feeding twice daily is what I do and I find that the goats are much more satisfied with this routine.  Again, you have to do what works best for you.

The calf manna is a good idea if you want to beef up their nutrition or you could consider shredded beet pulp which would add bulk as well as give the goats a feeling of being more satisfied.

Some say that weighing food is the only way to go, others use measuring devices and others eyeball it.  Do what you feel most comfortable doing.  If you do increase their diet, the body transformation is going to take some time.  You should see results over several weeks of the increased food.  Again, being individuals, individual goats metabolize foods differently and will visually show difference at different rates of time.

You may not even need to add anything from what they are presently eating, just increase the amount.  You can increase the amounts until you see an improvement in their body structure and then slowly back off to an amount that will maintain the more appropriate body weight.


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## Stacykins (Aug 11, 2012)

Thank you so much, Goatherd! I guess I was just concerned, since I read so many things saying "too much grain - BAD!" that I was afraid to give them more. I will slowly increase what they are getting. Also, here are pictures, taken a few days ago. I was trying to get them set up, but since I have only two hands, and one of those had the camera, they are only pseudo set up. They get so excited about the camera, sometimes!

Suzie, she is the goat who weighs 20lbs












Dulce de Leche


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## ksalvagno (Aug 11, 2012)

They do both look good. I do like to feed grain too. I get mine up to a cup of grain a day and I have Nigerians.


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## Goatherd (Aug 11, 2012)

Keep in mind, I have full sized goats.  That being said, your goats look perfectly fine to me.  I would describe them as "dainty and petite."

As far as feeding grain, that is a topic that ranks right up there with disbudding horns.  Everybody's right and everybody's wrong.

I will say that the topic of feeding grain is somewhat detrimental to someone who is new to goats or not sure about what they are doing.  Providing a complete, nutritious diet with hay, minerals (if they even use them) and water is not easily done.  Too much grain is certainly bad, but applying common sense when you are selecting a method of feeding any animal makes all the difference to a successful diet.


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## that's*satyrical (Aug 11, 2012)

They look fine to me too. Not too thin. It wouldn't hurt to add some calf manna though. They are still growing so whatever extra food they get will go into growth.


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## marliah (Aug 11, 2012)

I think they look good too. And I only give my non lactating girls about a cup a day.


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## Stacykins (Aug 11, 2012)

Glad that they look alright. Thanks, all!


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Aug 11, 2012)

They look great!! I wouldn't say the are thin or fat. Very nice and quite eye catching too.


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 11, 2012)

My little girl is 39# and she is 4 1/2 months (April 5th). My little boy is 30# and he is 2 1/2 months (May 27th). They are both pure nigerian.

Truffles is only, just barely, not getting any more milk...finally! And Captain Jack Sparrow is still getting a bottle at night. I figured that since Truffles is coming along so nicely and she has been splurging on the milk for a long while, I'd indulge Jack (and of course myself since I enjoy it) and let him have a bottle for a bit longer. I suspect that since he doesn't have his mother, he would be healthier by getting the raw milk with all the natural probiotics etc..

I do give them grain. At the moment it is oats, BOSS and Calf Manna. I had weighed it out to keep around a  17 % ratio but I think that was a little too high  for right now since we are in the 108 degree range so I cut it with a little more oats. I was using alfalfa pellets, but wanted to try a mix without it just for a change. I like the better mixability without the pellets since they are larger in size than the oats etc.

Truffles eats just about as much as she wants while the milking girls are milking. Jack gets some grain in the morning and evening (eats until he stops) to teach him to eat food when he is hungry (part of my weaning process). They all have alfalfa hay all the time.

Too much grain is a problem. But if your goat is accustomed to eating grain, more won't hurt. Consider that around here, some meat goat breeders/raisers don't want their goats to eat hay, only grain for fastest growth I guess. They feed them ALOT of grain, but since their systems are used to it, they are fine. 

Your goats looks like they are in nice, shiny, condition. Suzie looks a little on the thin side to me only because I can see the "triangle" just in front of her hips that looks a little sunken in. My heavily milking girl is the only one of my nigerians that I can see that on and she came to me that way. If I were to put my hands over her spine I could feel a "handle".

I'll see if I can find my camera to show you...it is a little hard to explain...


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 11, 2012)

Sorry...I can't find the camera anywhere. I hope I didn't leave it at work!

I just looked up another weight I had written down for when I was worming everyone...May 13th, Abby was 12# and Truffles was 16#  that would have been about 5 weeks old. These were the twins. 

If anyone else with nigerians could throw out some weights and ages, that would be great....I would hate to be saying that Suzie looks a little thin to me if my goats are all just fat little piggies! 

FOUND IT!!!  It was at work  OOPS!

OK...This is my thin girl. My son put his fingers in the "triangle " groove to emphasize it...the light in the garage is difficult to try and show this on the camera










this my fat kid, Truffles, She doesn't have any "handle" or "Triangle"









The scrape on her back is from her doing the jellyfish thing to squeeze through the 4x6 inch squares in the fence panels....she is huge but thinks she can still fit...kinda like me n skinny jeans


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## Stacykins (Aug 12, 2012)

I definitely get what you mean with her looking thinner, especially visible in the hip area. Suzie and Dulce are the same height at the withers, so that 5lbs more Dulce has fills her out more. Suzie doesn't look badly thin, just a bit less than desired?


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 12, 2012)

First off, I think they look really good. 

secondly, to help give you an idea about amount of grain, at least the upper limit.  When people feed out their meat wethers they are aiming for 3.5% to 4% of the wethers body weight in grain a day. So a 50 lb wether would be eating 2 lbs of grain a day, if they were getting 4% of their body weight a day in show grain.  They rarely get any hay, or pasture. 

I have found when weighing my feed and measuring the volumn, our pelleted goat feed is pretty close to 3 measuring cups per lb of feed. So a 50 lb kid being fed out for the fair could possibly be getting 6 cups of our pelleted feed a day. There will be a slight different in feeds when comparing volumn to weight, especiallly comparing a dry pelleted feed to a sweat feed ration. 

I realize these aren't meat goats, but Hope that helps give you a different way of looking at the feed.


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 12, 2012)

> Suzie doesn't look badly thin, just a bit less than desired?


Exactly...Your goats look like they have nice shiny coats, and look sturdy, bright and alert. 

If they were mine...I would most likely increase Suzies feed some. I know that some of the other breeds of larger goats may tend to look thin when they have recently kidded or are in milk. Some babies (like Nubians) also look really lean. I have only had 7 baby goats raised here (6 nigerian and 1 nubian) and my nigerian babies don't have the "triangle" (that is just my term but when I see it, it makes sense). 

I did have one that, in the wild, would have certainly not made it. She was so passive that when her mom literally kicked her off a teat, she would quit. Even when I held mom down. I ended up offering to let the babies nurse on my other does when I was milking if they were hungry still. They learned to come to me if they wanted some more milk. Their mom was a FF and not totally sold on the program. But I thought they were weaned around 5 weeks from mom (still nursing from my other does at milking time) only to see that just a few weeks ago I was still seeing fat little Truffles sneaking a nice long swig of the good stuff while out in the back pasture with mom! I guess she is coming around. Abby was smaller than Truffles but I don't recall seeing the triangle, so I think she was an OK weight. Just a little smaller. 

You might find that if she eats more browse or hay, her hay belly will fill up some of that space. If you saw the posts with the thinness drawing/scale, that is a pretty good, descriptive guide...I could totally see where my thin girl would be at.

Hope this helps. I am not trying to be critical, your goats do really and truly look well fed and cared for.


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