# new here



## talchemist5 (Jan 27, 2011)

ok i just wanted to say hi to everyone.

i just got my initial stock 1 week ago, a trio of new zealand reds from a local show/meat breeder.  i will try and post some pics this weekend.

the first question i have is about how long on average till they get adapted to their new home and me.  they seem to have accepted me walking and talking to them, but go to the cage and open and they can be a little fidgetty.  the youngest doe seems good until i touch her but then relaxes as i pet her, the buck is a litle elusive till i get to pet him and her relaxes, the older doe she just hides in the corner as soon as i reach in, now once i let her stop and slowly reach her she will relax while i pet her, but she seems to forget the next time.

second, how long should i wait to place them with the buck?  do they realy need to be fully accepting of me or will they be ok as long as i leave them be, they love me at feed time it seems.

final question i have read about using a light to keep 14hr days, should i bother? i have all the parts waiting around except i need a water proof box/gfi to connect it with a timer?  (i got extra flourescent strips from doing growth lights for seedlings)

ok thanks for your time and attention, i have to say sopmetimes just sitting and watching them is fun.

oh sorry to ramble but one more quick question, my dog is a good girl and doesnt bother them but she wines when i feed/treat them, and her wining upsets them.  is there a way to keep her from wining so much?  she is excited since she seems to know they are meat and she eats meat


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## Rebbetzin (Jan 28, 2011)

I really don't know anything about rabbits. Except I think they are cute.  I would imagine it is best to keep the dog away from the rabbits. The rabbits probably don't feel real safe with a preditor just outside the cage.

I know once people start to post on this thread, you will find they are nice and have lots of good information for you.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 28, 2011)

Welcome!!!


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## talchemist5 (Jan 28, 2011)

they are in a fully enclosed shed, the bottom half is a compost bin/worm bin and they have privacy lathe all around, for winter it has tarps that roll up on strings and there is no way for the dog to even get close, and she is afraid to approach the shed.

she just wimpers at them.  when she is ignoring them and running aroudn they ignore her, the breeder had a dog/cats and they seem to not care.....it is that she wines and that bothers them...barking they dont even flinch oddly.


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## tortoise (Jan 28, 2011)

It will depend on the temperament of your rabbits.  I buy stock from another breeder with excellent temperament rabbits.  No stress, no problems.  Totally fine with the dogs running around, calm around my 3 yr old son who forgets he can't yell in the rabbits shed.

I got a rabbit from another breeder and he stresses out all the time - not breeding it into my herd!!

I don't have lights on my rabbits, but I have a BIG window on the south side of the shed.

RE: your dog:

I highly doubt your dog has any idea that rabbits = meat.  (Unless your dog hunts for and eats rabbit)  I got started raising rabbits for meat for my dogs.  They don't make any connection between the live version and the meat.  I know people that raise chickens for dog food.  Dogs are totally oblivious that live chicken = chicken in their food dish. 

Dogs can't think that way unless they have hunted rabbit.


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## dbunni (Jan 28, 2011)

tortoise said:
			
		

> It will depend on the temperament of your rabbits.
> RE: your dog:
> 
> I highly doubt your dog has any idea that rabbits = meat.  (Unless your dog hunts for and eats rabbit)  I got started raising rabbits for meat for my dogs.  They don't make any connection between the live version and the meat.  I know people that raise chickens for dog food.  Dogs are totally oblivious that live chicken = chicken in their food dish.
> ...


This is where you and I will disagree.  Sporting dogs/hunting dogs with a good instinct will connect the two together.  I'm a second generation handler, raised within the sporting industry (hunted/raised Weims to spaniels show, obediece, performance and field) ... there is not one on my property that would not take on the animals if allowed.  As a youth I was witness to several instances where a dog took out and consumed a rabbit/bird.  Animals can be removed through wire... just ask the weim who got out in the middle of the night and pulled, yes pulled, a full grown coated angora through a cage.  Not in the field.  They were aware of the consequences of that ... when we work we work, but when we are at rest ... ohlala!  While I have all of the above on the propery, I would not chance nature and a good instinct.  yes, the weims do run close to the animals ... right outside their area actually.  And my buns are use to the dogs, cats, goats, etc.   We can train dogs, but we cannot train out instinct if it is truly there.  Dogs are logical.  Don't be fooled by them!  Anybody who has shown a dog in any event knows this .. show, obedience, field ... etc.  Oh the book I could write on dogs and their logic!  Anybody who has handed off a top show dog, awsomely trained, to watch it take advantage of the new handler has witnessed that event!  But this is just my opinion.

Don't worry about the sounds your dog makes, the buns will get use to the sound.  And if the buns are new, your dog may be more interested in the fact that you are paying attention to them, then them.  Also ... i'm sure they look like a great toy!  In time both will adjust.  Give the dog a new toy while out there to distract.  Good luck with the kiddos.


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## tortoise (Jan 28, 2011)

dbunni said:
			
		

> tortoise said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Professional dog trainer here.    A dog will react to scent, sight, sound, or movement of a prey animal.  Unless a dog has hunted before it is unlikely to react to sight.  If a dog has hunted or has very strong hunting instinct it will likely respond to scent.  A terrier will respond to sound.

However, most dogs will respond to movement.  If the rabbit startles, the dog is on the chase.  Once on the chase the prey drive takes over and that rabbit will soon be dead rabbit.

Once an individual dog has had that experience, it will connect rabbit=food.  In addition, dogs learn from each other.  All you need is one rabbit eater and that behavior will be passed on.

I have more experience with terriers.  My last terrier would totally ignore a pet rat or a rabbit.  Unless it squeaked.  Then it was as good as dead.  

Right now I have a Golden Retriever and a Choc Lab, both from hunting lines.  My lab is out of Barracuda Blue - I really mean it when I say hunting lines.  I've had rabbits get loose.  They are super tame so they hop around a little bit before I catch them.  This happens with the dogs loose outside.  But if that rabbit spooks and runs, I'm not sure which dog would catch/eat it first.

And I totally agree that instinct/drive cannot be trained out of a dog, although it can be managed - usually only under direct human supervision.


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## cattlecait (Jan 28, 2011)

Welcome! Congrats on the rabbits, New Zealand Reds are gorgeous!

It shouldn't take them long to get accumulated to their cages and you, maybe a couple of days max. If you want them to be friendly then at the least give them pats and rubs when you feed them, or full out snuggle them every day, whatever time allows. It all depends on the rabbit, New Zealands aren't known to be the most snuggly of breeds.

They really won't need to be accepting of you to breed. Just remember to put HER in HIS cage, not the other way around. I recommend Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits, mine has been passed around the 4-H club dozens of times and is all marked up and highlighted all over like a used college textbook.

If you have the equipment, go ahead and do the lighting. I've never done it, but know people who have and it works great for them. If the set-up doesn't work great for you, I wouldn't bother with it. Just my opinion.


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## dbunni (Jan 28, 2011)

I have had an 8 week old puppy point and hunt ... looking for the bird.  No movement in the area, just a bird feeder 10' above... We start pups in a yard with no animals to see if they have the real drive/instinct.  it is not something you can train into them.  it can be controlled.  Sporting dogs & hounds are my game.  Although dad has had terriers all my life.  Our weim line has been titled in both field and show for 50 years.  It is kinda cool watching the kids practice their skills looking for the bird that is chirping high above in a feeder!


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## Bunnylady (Jan 28, 2011)

Your rabbits will eventually get used to the dog, though they instinctively know that she is a predator. As to settling in? Your rabbits may learn to accept you, but they may or may not be friendly toward you. Some rabbits are very handler-oriented, others may prefer to be left alone. I have some rabbits that simply must be petted every time I open their cages, and others that run to the back. They may have had the exact same handling, but some just aren't cuddly bunnies. Whether yours come around or not, I think it's a good idea to wait at least a couple of weeks before trying to breed them. Consider it a "quarantine" period. If they should come down with anything nasty, it's easier to treat an open doe than a pregnant one.  

Good luck, and


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## Bossroo (Jan 28, 2011)

The hunting prey instinct isn't limited to only the hunting dogs. We once had a female Chihuahua all of 7 pounds      that was around chickens all of her life. One day a hen got loose and the chase was on.  She caught the hen, started to shake it.     Her teeth were so small that the hen had only a couple red spots on her neck.      Also, it any cat came into her property ( 1 acre) the chase was on and the cat usually got treed.


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## talchemist5 (Jan 28, 2011)

yeah, my only concern with my dog is that she is an avid squirrel hunter/catcher/eater.  that is good since i hate those tree rats   she is on the raw meat/prey diet and that was one reason for the rabbits, that and i cant legally have chickens in the city. <if i had a privacy fence i would anyway>  this way we can split a meal, i love rabbit, but havent had since i was kid on a camping trip and we got 2 cotton tails with our bb guns.

i think your right, i will give her a new toy when i next go out, she is great if she just got some food and leaves them alone long after she is done eating.

i think i will put up the lights tomorow morning and see about some pictures.


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## tortoise (Jan 28, 2011)

Bossroo said:
			
		

> The hunting prey instinct isn't limited to only the hunting dogs. We once had a female Chihuahua all of 7 pounds      that was around chickens all of her life. One day a hen got loose and the chase was on.  She caught the hen, started to shake it.     Her teeth were so small that the hen had only a couple red spots on her neck.      Also, it any cat came into her property ( 1 acre) the chase was on and the cat usually got treed.


Chihuahua's can be like 5 pound APBT's.    But really, they were pack hunting dogs before they were bred to be pets.


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## Sama_Lama (Jan 31, 2011)

You dog doesn't know that bunnies = meat, but it does know that bunnies = prey and that might present a problem. I feed all my dogs a raw diet and I have chickens and now bunnies (they will be raised for meat). Although my dogs don't relate the bunnies or chickens with dinner, they are still small animals and most of the dogs will give chase to them if given the chance. I have 3 dogs that I will let out with the chickens and I will find out if they will be fine with the bun buns, but I would never (never ever!) trust them alone with them. The likelihood of your bunnies becoming desensitized to the dogs is slightly higher than the likelihood of your dogs becoming desensitized to the bunnies in my opinion.


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## talchemist5 (Feb 3, 2011)

Here we Go.  all three are new zealand reds.

This is my buck, his name is Buck, how original 






This is the younger doe, Lucy.





And finally miss grumpy, Mary.





that is my trio.


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## rabbitlady4433 (Feb 3, 2011)

They are beautiful!


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## cattlecait (Feb 5, 2011)

Very pretty! Love red New Zealands 

My first buck was a castor Mini Rex, also named Buck lol.


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## AlpacaEmployee (Feb 6, 2011)

Very Nice.


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## tortoise (Feb 6, 2011)

Sama_Lama said:
			
		

> You dog doesn't know that bunnies = meat, but it does know that bunnies = prey and that might present a problem.


Thank you, that's what I was attempting to say.


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## wYs Ranch (Feb 7, 2011)

HI!

If the whining bothers you, keep him away from the bunny area.  Any dog with prey drive will go after the rabbits given the opportunity.  My Corsos have high prey drive, but don't bother the chickens or geese (the dogs show interest if the birds are acting flighty, but they leave them when told to or if they're just pecking around) But, they know what rabbits are, and they know they're fun to chase!

Your rabbits are pretty!  I have some CA's and I believe the NZ's are actually mutts... but thats ok for filling my freezer for now.  I love some of the coat variations I'm getting from the mutts since we're planning on keeping the hides and making stuff with them.


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## Mitransplant (Mar 5, 2011)

Can I ask a few questions? Guess I can since nobody said no. LOL

Does a breeder sell you rabbits at a decent price or do they charge a high amount since they are a breeder?
Can you breed a family member with another or should you make sure they are from different litters altogether?

I have a breeder here in town who said she would sell me one little rabbit for $45.00. I about dropped my teeth and other things too. I am sorry but I think this price is ridiculous for a RABBIT that is going to produce more rabbits. I am not going to show it.
I have searched and there are no rabbits for sale around me so is there anything else I can do to get a few rabbits?

THANKS


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## Myke (Mar 5, 2011)

talchemist5, I would like to see pictures of your shed. I am planning a lathe shed myself. Where do you live? I'm in Colorado Springs, CO and worry that it may get too cold a few weeks every winter. If you don't mind posting a picture or e-mailing me a few. 
Thanks
Myke


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## cattlecait (Mar 5, 2011)

Most breeders do show at ARBA shows and depending on the breeder's status, $45 may be a decent price depending on the quality of the animal.

If you don't want to show rabbits, you don't have to pay that much but the higher quality your stock is the more you can charge for your own bunnies. Go to www.arba.net and you'll find lots of information about breeders, particular breeds and there are links to the individual breed associations and local clubs to get you started. If you want to start in rabbits, start with the best stock you can!


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## terri9630 (Mar 5, 2011)

Mitransplant said:
			
		

> Can I ask a few questions? Guess I can since nobody said no. LOL
> 
> Does a breeder sell you rabbits at a decent price or do they charge a high amount since they are a breeder?
> Can you breed a family member with another or should you make sure they are from different litters altogether?
> ...


It depends on availability and breed.  I looked for almost a year befoe finding my does.  There are others in the area but people wanted $80-$100 for them.  Call the local feed stores.  Some sell them and others may know who has them.  If that fails wait until after your local fair and see if any of those are for sale.


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## hoodat (Mar 5, 2011)

Small pet stores often get three or four month old rabbits from people who change their minds after keeping them awhile, often the same ones that bought them as babies. They are harder to sell so they charge less than for the babies. I just got a beauty of a crossbred NZ doe at one for $14. She was well cared for and very tame.


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## Mitransplant (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks cattlecait. I bookmarked that sight and will definitely check it out later.
Some of you mentioned the feed stores, would they carry say for example the new zealand rabbit or californian or are they just generic rabbits?  I don't think it matters what breed I get as long as they would be good for meat since it is only for my own personal use I would be getting them for. I know between me and my grand daughter, there would be some pets out of the litters.

Just wondering if I went to a feed store and bought what they had there and when old enough bred them, would they be the right kind for meat?  I am not sure I would care for the meat since I have never had it but my hubby likes it so would not be having to many litters a year.
Used to have a rabbit in the back yard when my daughter was little and don't even know what kind he was. Had him for over three years before rehoming him.

Thanks for all the suggestions and I will do more research before I buy.


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## talchemist5 (Mar 6, 2011)

i got my rabbits from a local breeder who mainly does show bunnies and some meat <culls>.  i paid 40/ doe and 30 per buck.  according to my research that seemed about average.  i actually have 2 breeders in town/nearby and they charge the same almost.

as for my lathe house /shed i will post some pics...i took a few durring construction and i will take some more about it.  so far i love it but i am affraid i will need to move the whole thing since it has already gotten to 80 deg inside the shed....i think the sun was on the thermometer or i will be getting a mesh tarp and make a shade cover for it...i dont have much shade in the yard.  i was hoping our 95-100 degree sumers could be mitigated with air flow and shade...i may have to do more.


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## dewey (Mar 6, 2011)

Mitransplant said:
			
		

> Can I ask a few questions? Guess I can since nobody said no. LOL
> 
> Does a breeder sell you rabbits at a decent price or do they charge a high amount since they are a breeder?
> Can you breed a family member with another or should you make sure they are from different litters altogether?
> ...


That's about the minimum cost in this area for decent junior breeding stock.  It's actually a very small investment for an animal that can give you 150-200 pounds of meat a year, or around 120+- rabbits over 3 years to eat or sell. 

Feed store rabbits around here are just whatever is the most popular mini house-pet breed.  If you find a breeder near you with good, healthy junior stock for $45 you'll usually end up waaay ahead in time and cost savings over cheaper inferior stock.


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