# Choosing a breed for a small property



## Bosky (Jan 5, 2011)

In less than two months (counting down!) we are moving to a small property, about one acre.  It may not be much by some standards but it is OURS, paid in full!  I know I'm getting chickens -- I've had chickens before and miss them terribly.  I'm also considering adding goats, for milk mostly.  We don't need a ton of milk, we're not big milk drinkers, but enough to use a little everyday and to make cheese and yogurt.  The goats won't have a big space -- they will have to share our acre with a big vegetable garden and enough yard leftover for family use.  So I've mostly been looking at the small breeds, so they'll have a little more space (comparatively) to run.  Also, although I love horses and big dogs, I also know smaller animals are generally easier to handle and deal with, especially around kids (we don't have any, but hope to).  From here the questions start...

I love the idea of tiny goats for our tiny farm so I've been looking into Nigerian dwarfs.  Then, I'm hearing they are not as easy to milk because of their size.  How much of a difference does this make really?  I'm a dead beginner when it comes to milking (but good with my hands, usually).  And I also heard someone say they don't milk for as long after kidding as some other goats.  Is that true?  I do know I should be looking for animals from dairy lines, not just show/pet.

I would love to hear from ND owners on these or any other issues.  If not NDs I might consider one of the mini breeds or even full-size, but don't even know where to start on those.  It seems every breed has its fans who claim they are the most docile/most personable/best in every way and good luck narrowing it down!  They are ALL adorable as far as I'm concerned... I admit LaManchas would take a little getting used to but I'm sure I could!  We do have neighbors on either side so hearing Nubians are noisy might be an issue... but then our neighbors have roosters so maybe not.  Any owners of MULTIPLE breeds want to weigh in on personality or other differences between them?

Given I want goats primarily as family dairy animals, I thought about just getting grade goats or whatever good milking goats I come across first.  But, the thought of having to do SOMETHING with the baby goats makes me think it might be a better idea to get good purebred goats.  Am I right in thinking the babies would be in more demand and easier to sell/rehome?  I admit the idea of even making a little extra cash down the line by selling the kids (I mean, the goat kids) is not unappealing, though from having raised other animals I know better than to count my chickens before they hatch or expect a profit at the end of the day.  (Even before labor hours are factored in!)

Well, anyway, enough questions for now, please weigh in if you have thoughts for me.  I have a ton of experience with a lot of animals but I'm a newbie when it comes to goats.  Thanks!!


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## glenolam (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm a large breed person myself, but there are a ton of nigerian owners who love love love them and have no problems milking.  Of course, you have to get used to their tiny teats, but once you master that you're fine.

A mini-Nubian (nubian/nigerian cross) or kinder (nubian/pygmy cross) may result in larger teats for easier milking.

Congratulations on the property!!


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## jodief100 (Jan 5, 2011)

Bosky said:
			
		

> I admit the idea of even making a little extra cash down the line by selling the kids (I mean, the goat kids)


Some days I would like keep the goat kids and sell the human kids.

I only have 1 milk goat, the rest are meat goats.  My milk goat is a LaMancha, a little smaller than some of the full size ones and I really like her. She is very easy to milk but it may be just her.  

I have heard good things about ND's as well.  No personal experience.


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## Roll farms (Jan 5, 2011)

Oberhaslis are also small(ish), super smart, sweet, quiet.....I <3 Obs.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 5, 2011)

I have a large dairy breed as well.  But mini nubians would work well I think.  Nubians are good milkers as stated.  

BTW     Welcome to BYH!!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 5, 2011)

Congratulations!  An acre to call your own is nothing to scoff at, that's for sure! 

I milk my nigerians.  I'll admit, our Nubian was easier to milk in terms of teat size but to me it wasn't worth the trade offs associated with her mouth.  That is, how much grain had to go in it and how much noise came out of it!  I know the noisiness isn't everyone's experience but let me tell you, my 6 nigis PUT TOGETHER don't make that much noise.  But, like the Loch Ness monster, I hear tell of the existence of quiet Nubians... 

Just be mindful about finding a doe with good production and workable teat size.  Not all of them do have tiny teats.  If you're starting with a doe kid then you'd want to look for these things in her genetic background.

You're right, every breed has something appealing.  It's just a matter of finding what fits your needs/preferences.  I've found Nigerians to be easy to handle, efficient with feed, easy to house, and a whole heck of a lot of fun.

Good luck with your search!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 5, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Oberhaslis are also small(ish), super smart, sweet, quiet.....I <3 Obs.


If we ever add a full sized doe it'll be an Ob...


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## chandasue (Jan 5, 2011)

I have a few ND's and I do love them. Yes be sure to get them from a milking line and better to start out with goats that have been bred and handmilked before so they know what's expected of them. Mine are decent milkers as ND's go but not outstanding by any means. I get about 6 months out of them and then they dry up. You can stagger breeding to have milk year round from 2 good milkers. However it's not enough milk for us now that I've learned how to make cheese so we're getting a lamancha soon. The teats are different to milk than a standard so be sure to have a breeder show you how to handmilk them. It's more like thumb and 2 fingers rather than using your whole hand.


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## PattySh (Jan 5, 2011)

I have mostly grade does. My oberhasli/alpine milked over a gallon a day in her first lactation. She is pretty small but her teats are not and she is awesome to milk. My mininubian also has large teats and milks awesome but only 1/2 gal a day(1st lactation) but  rich milk that  made great cheese and excellent ice cream. She is really quiet natured.  I have a Nigerian but she has never milked more than 2 cups a day (after weaning her young, we never milked her from day one) She also stopped milking pretty quickly. My full size goats we had to dry off after breeding. Might I suggest possibly two full size goats that milk good or are from good milkers, make sure on small acreage that you don't inherit fence jumpers, or a goat so spoiled she is a screamer. Also taste the milk if the goat is milking. 3 mistakes I made years ago. One plus from purebreds is that the kids will sell for lots more if the breed sells well in your area. Although nice well taken care of grade doelings dewormed and with shots etc are definately wanted around here, not all people can afford the registered prices.


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## BetterHensandGardens (Jan 5, 2011)

I went thru the process of selecting a goat breed last spring and settled on the Nigerian Dwarfs.  A couple of good milking ND can keep a family supplied in milk thru the year and they're good for small areas.  I wrote a bit about why they make a good selection here: http://www.betterhensandgardens.com/2010/09/15/nigerian-dwarf-goats/

We now have three and are really happy with them so far.  They're not old enough to breed (have milk) yet, but we decided to go with pedigreed goats from good milking lines both to help insure a good milk supply and help with the sale of kids in the future.  For understanding the pedigree (milking potential), I tried to explain that here: http://www.betterhensandgardens.com/2010/12/22/understanding-goat-pedigrees/

Hope the information helps and good luck on finding the perfect goats - they are great to have around.


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## Ariel301 (Jan 5, 2011)

I would recommend getting at least two does, one will be lonely by herself so a companion is a good idea. Or you could get a doe and a wether if you only want to milk one. 

Goats don't need a ton of space, you could comfortably keep a couple of full size does in a 15 foot by 15 foot pen, once they get out of the playful baby stage they seem to mostly just lay around being lazy. But the small breeds are nice too. If you're looking for something small, mini LaManchas are very nice. With a good one, you get the super-sweet LaMancha personality (like a golden retriever dog) in a smaller package. They're good milkers too, if you get one from good bloodlines, half a gallon a day per doe is not out of the question. That's plenty to make lots of cheese (including the inevitable batches that don't work when you're first learning lol) but not enough to be overwhelming. If there are any available in your area, they'd be worth going to look at.


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## Livinwright Farm (Jan 5, 2011)

If you don't mind not knowing for certain if they are pure bred or not, you can check Craigslist for some VERY decently priced goats. We got our 5 goats(2 nigerian does, 2 nigi-pyg bucklings, 1 nigi-pyg doeling) for a grand total of $250!! A massively cheap price for 5 goats in today's economy! Everywhere else we looked in New England, they were $250/goat.


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## Our7Wonders (Jan 6, 2011)

We have less than an acre to work with and have our smallish flock of chickens (15 hens and 2 roosters) and 2 full size nubian milking does with some room to spare.  My does were bought specifically for milk - though we have fallen head over heals for them right away and they are now very much pets too.  

The property is not only small, it's on a hillside as well so we've gotten creative with how we use the space available to us.  It's working well for us and our animals so far.

As far as breed - perhaps you can find someone with goats and try your hand at milking?  I was certain I wanted NDs because of our small space, then I tried milking a Nubian who was a first time freshener with small teats - there wasn't hardly anything for me to get hold of!  When I helped at the dairy I hated when it was time to milk her - they used a milk machine but I still had to hand finish and I dreaded her every time.  I've been so pleased with my does - they're udders are perfect size for me to milk.  The smaller teats made my hands cramp pretty quickly.  

Anyway, just some food for thought.


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## lilhill (Jan 6, 2011)

Of course I think Nigerians are great for small spaces and love the rich milk they produce.  They are easy to handle and have great personalities.  Whatever decision you make that will work for your situation, welcome to the goat world!


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 6, 2011)

Welcome to the 1 acre club!    Bee and I are also members, and we manage to do lots on one acre!  I have up to 2 goats at a time (not including any kids), 2 ewes full time, plus several lambs at a time, plus 30+ laying chickens, turkeys, broiler chickens, and a big garden with room to spare!  It takes a little more careful planning and management, but it works!!  

I have an Oberhasli, and I love her to pieces.  She is calm, quiet, and still has a cute quirky personality.  She's a dream to milk and very well behaved on the stand, and she was right from the start. She provides more milk than we can drink, and she's full sized without being huge.  

Obers are a little harder to find, depending on where you are.  You certainly dont' need a purebred goat, but like you said it will make marketing kids easier.  You should have enough room to keep a couple does on your property.  And really, I don't think a Nigi would take up that much less space than my doe.   Maybe they would, I'm not sure.  I just don't like stooping over all that much.


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## Bosky (Jan 6, 2011)

Thank you all so much for the tips!  I'm still leaning towards the NDs, I think.  The couple of you who mentioned it, you're probably right that I could easily fit two standard-size does, but well... knowing my propensity to keep "just one more" maybe allowing for an extra goat or two in the future is a good idea.  And, well, just the very idea of bitty little dairy goats has some appeal to me.  They are so dang cute!

I like hearing they are feed-efficient for their milk output, too.  Not that we're so strapped for cash a few pounds of feed are going to break us -- but I've promised myself that I'm going to try to be practical about this whole farm animal thing, and make them earn their keep.  As in, no bantam chickens, pretty though they may be... but miniature goats that produce more for their feed than the big guys?  Sure!


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## 4hmama (Jan 7, 2011)

We have ND's and love them.  I was milking one doe and getting 2 qts per day.  Teats are smaller than standards, but if you milk regularly, that increases teat size so that they are easier to milk.  The feed/milk conversion ratio is great!  Two does would probably produce more than enough milk for you, and take up very little space.  Don't get just one, because they do need a buddy! 

Good luck!


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## julieq (Jan 7, 2011)

We have one mini (ND/Togg) doe who gives a half gallon per day at the height of her lactation.  The other does and our bucks are ND's.  We've raised both Nubians and Alpines in the past, but have recently come back to the ND's/minis as they're so much easier to handle.  We really feel that for the small amount of hay and grain they consume on a daily basis we get an excellent return in milk production!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jan 7, 2011)

I definitely recommend the Nigerians. We currently live on less than one acre in an apartment attached to my grandmothers house and my parents. So not only do we have 8 human adults, but also 5 ND goats, 40 chickens, 2 ducks, 1 German Shepherd, 1 Holland Lop, 3 adult cats and 3 kittens, with plenty of room to spare. At one time we had 9 Shetland sheep 2 large goats and 1 Nigerian (before I bought my 5) here. You can do a LOT on one acre! Happily this summer only the goats, 5 chickens and maybe 1 cat will be going with my husband and I to the cabin we're building in the middle of nowhere on 4 acres of our own, but access to much much more.

My 5 ND's are currently kept in a 12x12 pen (and I could easily keep more) that I clean out once a month (during the summer, not able to in winter!) they also go for a browse walk at least once a day during the summer, and when it's warm out in the winter I let them out to get more exercise then their pen allows. 

MAKE SURE you get well bred Nigerian Dwarf Goats. I'm really surprised when I read about the others on this threads experience with ND's as far as milking. Here in Alaska the well bred Nigies easily sustain the 305 day lactation that they need for testing, and some of the breeders were commenting on how they had difficulty drying up their does because they were still producing a lot. Many still produce a quart a day up till the 305 day point. But this is also coming from Alaska's top breeders that have put thousands of dollars into buying some of the best ND lines in the country and bringing them to AK. Lines such as Piddlin' Acres, Rosashar'n, TX Twin Creeks, Jobi, and Gaymor. That list is just what one breeder has brought up. Other breeders have brought up more lines. Here  is a link for you to see how much milk is expected from a top line breeder, so you can know if your dealing with good dairy lines or not.

I have only had my girls for 6 months, and their milk had already been slowed way down before I got them so between that and my pulling them off of grain I eventually had to dry them up after about 6 months from giving birth because I was getting so little. But this time around things will be different. 3 of my girls in the past gave around 1 and 1/2 gallons a day combined, and the other girl that I added to my herd, that has the smallest udder, gives a quart a day at top production.

I cannot stress how important it is that you research research research the lines you want. I didn't research my goats very well until after I had bought them and I believe now that I will be breeding two lines in my herd, one that is rather meaty, but also produces lots of milk, and another that I hope to work in a lot of milk, and they will have good dairy conformation and will be good for me to sell my kids to those who want to show their goats.

Also MAKE SURE they have been tested free of CAE, Johne's, and Brucellosis (sp) and ask if all abscesses have been tested for CL. My goats had been tested 1 1/2 years before I bought them so I thought they would be fine, but now I am dealing with the possibility of them having caught Johne's during the last six months before I bought them because they had been moved to a new property. So if the have been moved to a new property since their last testing insist it be done again before you buy. Otherwise you could be putting hundreds of dollars into animals that you may have to cull.

My ND's are an absolute delight. The only time I have not cared for having goats was before my husband built a sturdy pen out of rough planks from his saw mill. Once my goats figured out that they cannot get out, they don't even try anymore. They are VERY quiet, except for when they need something (missing something in their diet) or are in heat, except for one doe that likes to start announcing about an hour from milking time that she is ready to be milked. 

They eat very little, and even with the high prices that I pay for everything here in AK my goats will cost me barely over $1000 a year, and that was back when I had 9 that I did that figuring. I also figured that if they give as much milk as they have in the past then I will be paying $1 a gallon for milk. 2 gallons of milk a day will be plenty to make all my dairy products from, plus have some left over to give to my family. So in the long run, my goats are actually saving me money, because I was/am paying $7 a gallon for raw cow's milk from a cow share, plus plenty for the only cheeses I can handle, which are raw or high quality.

Here  is a link to show you what a well bred ND should look like.  

If you look into goats that are ADGA registered, ADGA has this WONDERUL pedigree search so that you can find out who your goats are related to (and thus avoid in breeding, which I highly recommend for anyone who is new to goats). It also will tell you if there is ADGA award winning goats in their lineage, if they have had any registered offspring etc. I have put this tool to MUCH use in the 6 months that I have had my goats.  http://www.adgagenetics.org/

Happy goat hunting!

**edited to fix some of my horrible grammar and add some links.**


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## Bosky (Jan 8, 2011)

CrownOfThorns, you're my new hero!  I just bookmarked all your links.  I'm definitely going to be very choosy about who I get my stock from.  I've got a few breeders in mind whose websites, at least, go into detail about their disease testing and milk production.  I'm still pretty clueless about different lines, but I recognize some of the ones you mentioned.  I'm hoping to learn more when I move home and can visit some breeders, and some goats, in person, and hopefully get a little hands-on experience.  I really want to start with top quality goats -- for once in my life, I have the money to do it, and if I'm going to keep an animal that must be bred, I figure it's only right to breed the best animals I can.

And I guess I can stop worrying about how well NDs will tolerate Michigan winters, if yours do alright in Alaska!  Thank you so much for all the detailed information!  About pen size among other things -- I'm planning something just a little larger than that, and hope to let mine out browse some of the rest of the yard, too.

And thanks again to everyone -- I've read a lot of books and websites but hearing from real people is much more helpful!


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