# How to you handle a horned herd?



## Plesiosaur (Jan 20, 2013)

I know to disbud or not is controversial. But I'm thinking about starting a herd of angoras and the Angora association suggests that you *not* disbud because they are so woolly they need the horns to dissipate heat--which will be a concern in our NC summers. 

All of the goat information and books I've read assumes that the goats have been disbudded so they have no information on how to deal with horns. Should the horns be trimmed? How often? What precautions/ strategies do you use to keep yourself and your children safe when you're managing and enjoying your goats? Any tips?

Thanks,
Stephanie


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 20, 2013)

I would never remove the horns from an Angora for just that reason. 

As for doing anything with horns? Nothing. You do nothing with them at all and just be carefull and know whwere the horns are and you will be fine. Mine all have horns and I've never had an issue. Ever.


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## terrilhb (Jan 20, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> I would never remove the horns from an Angora for just that reason.
> 
> As for doing anything with horns? Nothing. You do nothing with them at all and just be carefull and know whwere the horns are and you will be fine. Mine all have horns and I've never had an issue. Ever.


X2. Respect the horns.


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## Roving Jacobs (Jan 20, 2013)

I have angoras and have never had any issues with their horns. The does' horns sweep back over their heads so there is really no way for them to jab you with them unless you have them wedged between your legs. Even then it's not going to do any more than bruise a little. They're not a big deal at all and are convenient for catching the goats without accidentally pulling on fleece and hurting them.

This is as big as my adult does' horns get:




The bucks' horns sweep out to the sides but not in a way that would ever stab you and they aren't really pointy at the end. They might be able to knock you over if you aren't paying attention but you should always be paying attention around a buck anyway. Horned animals become very aware of where their horns are and are generally very careful about them. I have horned goats and Jacob sheep with tons of horns and I've never been seriously injured or had any problems with them.

Pay attention to the horns, respect the horns, but there is no reason to fear the horns.


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 21, 2013)

What was said before. Angora horns tend to sweep along the skull, as do Boer horns. Dairy horns tend to grow up before tilting back and are much more likely to jab a human in the stomach.  They become quite adept with the horns. I have cattle panel fencing and mine quite nimbly tilt their heads to get in and out. 

For Angoras, an added bonus is that the horns are useful "handles" when shearing.

We have 2 girls, age 10 and 8 and they are not allowed in with ANY goats unless they have permission from us or we (parents) are present. However, they enjoy taking the kids for walks and playing with them in the yard and even show them at the county fair.

The only issue I've had with horns is that I have a Saanen/Boer doe who still has them and when leading her, if she cocks her head at a certain angle, the horn pinches against my hand, but that is more discomfort than anything else.

A stated before, the tip of goat horns tend to get dull as the animals get older because they use them as tools much as an elephant uses tusks. They scratch their backs with them, they rub them on trees or sides of barns. As weapons, they are more for "intimidation factor" and as pressure points for butting and actually "scooping" up predators than for jabbing with like cattle do.

A lot of people don't like horns because goats can get caught in panel fencing or in stanchion type feeders, but again, this tends to happen more to horned dairy goats than to Boer or Angoras.

Horns also act as heaters in cold climates in addition to dissipating heat in hot climates.


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## manybirds (Jan 21, 2013)

i prefer disbudded animals but if you choose to not disbud theres really nothing you can do other then let them do what their gonna do. some people will put tennis balls or other objects on the horns but in my opinion if you try and leave those there just gonna eventually fall off in ur pasture and make a mess. trimming can be dangerous because u dont know where the quick starts, i did trimming once because i have 1 goat out there with horns and he creates problems among the disbudded animals. it worked but it was nervewracking.


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## Plesiosaur (Jan 21, 2013)

Thank you so much for all of your responses! 

Roving Jacobs--that goat is beautiful! Angoras and Jacob Sheep, sounds like Knitter's Paradise!


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## Plesiosaur (Jan 21, 2013)

Oh, one more question on the horn issue. I'm also considering getting a nubian doe to milk, and all of the ones sold in my area are disbudded. Would she be alright with the horned angoras?


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## Fluffygal (Jan 21, 2013)

My Fiona is dehorned Nubian with 2 horned pigmies and a hornless ND doe.
Fiona uses Oreo (horned pigmy) for a scratcher when she has an itch she can't reach. I do worry about them getting too rough but so far they seem to know to be careful with each other. Fiona will get on her knees to play headbutt Oreo. It is sweet how she is gentle toward the smaller goats. 

I think it depends on how well the goats like each other and how they get along. Personnally I am moving to a dehorned herd as I am working toward building a dairy herd. 
Eventually I may end up selling Bella and Oreo; but, I flip flop on it cus I am attached to em'.


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## Mamaboid (Jan 22, 2013)

I have a mixed herd of 12 adult goats (and 2- 4 day old kids).  I have both horned and not and they get along fine.  The one hornless nubian is the bottom doe on the totem pole, and she holds her own when they get to showing her her place.  One of the other hornless does is number two in overall herd and herd queen in her little group.  Personality makes a whole lot more difference than horn size.  Personally, I prefer horns.  I just like the way they look.


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 22, 2013)

All of my goats have been in with my 4-horned Jacob ram at one point or another, even the disbudded ones. And the most pugnacious of the group was a disbudded Saanen doe that was not in the least intimdated by his horns. 

My herd is mixed horns and disbudded and with some initial infighting (as with any herd) they have their pecking order sorted out and there are no problems.


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## WLRRM (Jan 24, 2013)

I wouldent ever take away the handles oops i mean horns. They are needed for cooling blood in hot weather, provide does a defense from over aggresive bucks, and us a comfortable safe means of handling. I have myotonics but from my experience all goats know where there horns are and most take good care to make sure not to run into people,there are exeptions im sure but i like to think of it as not taking away natural anatomy for our convienence, but to keep it for both our and the goats convienence instead.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 24, 2013)

I would not disbud or dehorn a hair breed.  Other types, is depends on what you are doing with them, the breed and personal taste.

We began disbudded our does because of 4H and since they are a small breed and our kids play with them constantly (horns at eye level), I will continue to disbud them.  The bucks, though, we do not show and the kids play with them less (they are not as lovey as the girls and the kids have to shower after they play with them)---these will be the last boys I disbud.  All three have scurs and the eldest is constantly knocking them loose and bleeds.  

I have been bruised by our only horned goat (who is about to be in the freezer).  We drilled out golf balls and taped them over the ends which made helped greatly.  If you tape up the ends of the horns like we did, they can still distribute the heat but are not as potentially OW!!


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## Jewls819 (Mar 21, 2013)

Our doe just had two kids.  I was considering disbudding but I think we will let them have horns.  My husband wants them to have horns and I think I agree.  Ours seem very careful with the horns however our goats are small and I do not have small children.  If I had larger goats then I might consider it.


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## FarmScapeGirl (May 6, 2013)

I will be adding fiber goats to our farm next year, and I don't plan on disbudding.  They do serve a purpose.  My dairy goats started as rescues, and they all came with horns.  We looked into disbudding when our does were pregnant, and that sealed our decision for us.  I would never be able to do that.  Not judging anyone else, I just know that the husband and I couldn't handle disbudding.  I also think, well, they have them for a reason.  Plus, the built in handles really do come in handy.  My small children are aware to be mindful of the horns, but there is not a "no contact" rule on our farm.  We are very hands on, and the goaties are very used to being handled by us.  We've never had an issue.

I will mention something here though.  Make sure your fence is narrow enough that your goats can not get their heads through!  We put up our fences before we brought our goats home, and learned this lesson the hard way.  If they can push through, they may not always be able to pull back.


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## Mamaboid (May 8, 2013)

I have a mixed herd of horned, disbudded, and polled.  We don't have any problems with the horns.  The only times we use the horns as handles is in extreme circumstances.  (imminent danger to us or to goat), and even our bucks with huge horns know better than to use them aggressively.  Mama has a no tolerance policy when it comes to aggressive behavior. 

The most dangerous animal on our farm is the two rotten turkeys, who are about to find out just how mean Mama can get.  One more hit to the middle of my back will just about take care of what sense of humor I have left.


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## CYGChickies (Jul 14, 2013)

In my experience--I have a herd of disbudded and horned Nigerians--the does do fine with horns but I don't like them on the bucks. The does never even offer to headbutt and honestly the horns are nice if you have to immediately move them for their own safety. The bucks however don't headbutt; they gore. They'll fling their head down and back up so they hook you with the horns and they know exactly what they're doing. Even our friendliest buck will sometimes decide you're doing something wrong and try to get you. For this reason I prefer disbudded bucks and don't mind horns on the does.


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