# Is my doe going to give birth/is she pregnant?  Updated pics pg 3



## parjackson (Jun 30, 2009)

Hi all!  This is my LaMancha doe, Spice.  She is supposed to give birth any day now, but I am beginning to have my doubts if she's even pregnant.  It could just be that I am more than ready to get the show on the road (I'm more prepared for this birth than I was for my own homebirth experiences!)

Could you please take a look at the attached photos (I hope I uploaded them properly!) and tell me what you think.  Is she or isn't she?  She is a first timer, so I know it won't be as obvious, but I am pulling my hair out!


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## helmstead (Jun 30, 2009)

Pooch looks like it says 'bred' to me, but udder says you have a good wait.  What are her breeding dates?

Very pretty doe, BTW!


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## parjackson (Jun 30, 2009)

According to the woman from whom we bought her, she is due to kid "the end of June or early July".  We weren't given any breeding dates; she was just running with the buck.  

Do you think her previous owner was off on her dates?  How far along do you think she is for a first timer?  (We have had her since early May, so that would have been her last opportunity for exposure.)

I'm wearing myself out, running back and forth to the barn constantly.  If I don't need to be "on duty" for a couple weeks, or even another month, I'd appreciate a heads up.  I realize that every doe is very different and they don't carry or present the same way, but any hints would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all so much for your help!


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## helmstead (Jun 30, 2009)

To me, even for a FF, her udder has a LONG way to go.  I would say about a month.

Your best bet will be to check her ligaments every couple of days and watch that udder growth.  Her ligs start to soften, then you know you're close.  Now they will feel like hard pencils next to her tail head - as they soften they start to sag slightly and you can push them down with your fingers, and by kidding day her whole hind end will be mush.


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## Griffin's Ark (Jun 30, 2009)

We couldn't ask for better pictures!  You really should see some swelling of the Mammaries if she were close.  It would be strange for her to have been bred in March, but not impossible.  Her right side indicates she has a baby in there, but how long has she looked like this?  If she has looked like this since you got her she may not be pregnant.  Just over conditioned.  She has to be pregnant though cause she is not the same size right and left.  Course I am a touchy feely person.  Ligaments and udder everyday twice a day after 145 days, and your 145 days is unknown so start feeling!!    

Oh and have fun!
Chris


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## parjackson (Jun 30, 2009)

Thank you, Kate and Chris!  

I appreciate your help.  As a complete newbie, I have no idea what I am feeling for when I feel for her ligaments or her udder.  I keep staring at her hind end waiting for something to happen.  The poor doe thinks I am some sort of sicko because I keep touching her and staring at her!   

I have to guess that she started looking more pregnant about 4 weeks ago.  She was very thin when we brought her home.  When she was with us for a couple weeks she looked and acted so much healthier, frisking about and playing with us.  The past few days, she reminds me of a thoroughly pregnant woman, wandering around, nibbling food here and there, but not much energy or interest in playing or anything requiring exertion.  Is there a point in goat pregnancy that this seems to hold true for the majority of does?

Thanks again!
Amy


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## Roll farms (Jun 30, 2009)

Oh, the misery of kid watch.  
I had one w/ a HUGE udder, HUGE belly, and she made me wait a full 22 days.  (She must have missed her first exposure / heat.)  It was January so I slept w/ a monitor and did nightly 3am checks, for NOTHING....
I SO feel your pain.


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## lilhill (Jun 30, 2009)

Nope, the only time any of my does ever lost interest in food was when they started having contractions.  Right up until then, they ate like there was no tomorrow.  If it's really hot there, the heat may be getting to her a little bit.  I do think she may be pregnant as her vulva looks like it has smoothed out on top, which is a good indicator.  However, I have no clue how much longer you'll have to wait.  Hang in there.  Without a breeding date, it's just a matter of waiting and watching.


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## username taken (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm thinking you are in for a month's wait or longer, sorry bout that. 

The 'udder' we are seeing here ... does that represent a significant change since you got her, or has it always looked like that? The reason I ask is because if it has always looked like that, my feeling is that she is not pregnant, just fat. 



			
				Griffin's Ark said:
			
		

> She has to be pregnant though cause she is not the same size right and left.


Actually I have a lot of does that are uneven at all times, empty and pregnant.


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## helmstead (Jun 30, 2009)

username taken said:
			
		

> Griffin's Ark said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, me too.  You can never tell a goat is preggers just by looking.  Not a good indicator.  I'm somewhat famous for saying you don't know they're pregnant until they're pushing! ha


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## lilhill (Jun 30, 2009)

I agree.  I had given up on my Caesar Villa doe being bred when two weeks before her projected due date, I saw she was developing an udder finally.  Even the pooch test didn't show the normal smoothing out.


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## parjackson (Jun 30, 2009)

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, everybody, but the frustration level was reaching mammoth proportions.  I feel a little better now after letting that all out! 

In order to make this agony a little more fun, how about having a guessing game for the following:

1.  Is Spice pregnant?

2.  If she is pregnant, when is she due to kid?

3.  If she is and she does, what will she have?

4.  Will I remain sane until all of the above are answered?

Thanks for all of your advice/insight.  It's kind of nice to know that the answers are just as baffling to everyone else, too!


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## username taken (Jun 30, 2009)

parjackson said:
			
		

> AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sorry, everybody, but the frustration level was reaching mammoth proportions.  I feel a little better now after letting that all out!
> 
> ...


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## helmstead (Jun 30, 2009)




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## freemotion (Jun 30, 2009)

parjackson said:
			
		

> AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sorry, everybody, but the frustration level was reaching mammoth proportions.  I feel a little better now after letting that all out!
> 
> ...


Funny, UT!

So, I'll play.  What is the prize?  A kid?

1.  Yes
2.  Third or fourth week of July
3.  One doeling
4.  Um....well, how can I put this nicely....the fact that you have goats is already a clinical sign....That horse has left the barn, sister.


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## haviris (Jul 1, 2009)

Just wanted to comment on the does not eating during labor, I had one this year that took a food break in the middle of labor. Had her first kid, left to eat (I had to clean the baby up), and didn't finish til all the food was gone, then back to kidding. I think if the food hadn't ran out she'd have just stood there and shot the last ones out on the ground, not even looking up from the feed pan. (she did prefer to kid while standing anyway)


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## Roll farms (Jul 1, 2009)

Last year I thought it'd be fun (and help a 4-H kid out) by posting a "When will Brecia kid" contest on my website.  

Closest guess on when, won...what (bucks, does, qty) would be tie breaker if needed.

She had kidded 3 times in the past, she was HUGE, but had no udder built yet, and I was just POSITIVE she had at least 2-4 weeks.  I posted pics of her belly, udder, etc.

(Long story short, we fed clover hay last year and NOT ONE of my does took on the first breeding, some not on the 2nd...so it was a truly awful kidding season)

Anyhow, on the night of the 3rd day of the contest, and only 28 entries by then, she threw twins...still w/out uddering up, and she was a doe I'd milked for the previous 2 years.

She took the fun RIGHT out of the contest, she did.  The wait was supposed to be longer, more suspense.  The 4-H kid who was closest had picked a date 12 days out, but...he was closest, so he won.

Moral of that rambling story...even those of us who are supposed to "know"...don't always know.  Silly goats...


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## lilhill (Jul 1, 2009)

Goats will definitely do everything in their own time, and will try their best to do it at the most inconvenient time for us.  It's a game they love to play.


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## Kute Kitten (Jul 1, 2009)

parjackson said:
			
		

> AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sorry, everybody, but the frustration level was reaching mammoth proportions.  I feel a little better now after letting that all out!
> 
> ...


1. I think so, I'm not to good with goats, but if goats are like cows, yes.
2. The 20th of July?
3.a little doe
4.I hope you do!


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## Griffin's Ark (Jul 1, 2009)

parjackson said:
			
		

> AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sorry, everybody, but the frustration level was reaching mammoth proportions.  I feel a little better now after letting that all out!
> 
> ...


1 YES or an emphatic probably
2 The 29th of July
3 Twin Doelings
4 Yes, on the 28th you will give up and walk away and it will happen.

I like to be precise as possible!

Chris

And look you guys... her right side bulge is very indicative of a pregnant doe.  And if she is more that 30 days out,  there is a couple in there!  Else she would not be this big already.  'Course I am making that age old blunder by comparing udder to girth...


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## helmstead (Jul 1, 2009)

Griffin's Ark said:
			
		

> And look you guys... her right side bulge is very indicative of a pregnant doe.  And if she is more that 30 days out,  there is a couple in there!  Else she would not be this big already.  'Course I am making that age old blunder by comparing udder to girth...


Sorry, but it's really not a good indicator.  My Nubian, for instance (comparing large breeds to large breeds here), has a pendulous, uneven belly all the time.  I can tell you with certainty that she has been open until but a few weeks ago - and yet her belly is larger still than the doe pictured while open.  By the time she kidded last March (with twins I might add) she was positively rotund.  

With most all my goats, if I followed such a scale as you indicate...they would never get bred as I would always consider them already preggers (even my bucks ).  You simply cannot tell by looking.

Back to the OP ~ with appologies for the hijack...

1.  think so based on pooch and that hint of udder
2.  anywhere from 1 to 2 months from now (get some sleep!)
3.  goat kid(s) ha
4.  unlikely  join the club!


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## parjackson (Jul 5, 2009)

Updated photos of Spice (taken July 5th)

It might be wishful thinking on my part, but I think we are making progress...

What do you think?


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## username taken (Jul 5, 2009)

HUGE amount of progress  Look at that udder!

I think you still might have 2 - 3 weeks or so to go ... she's certainly not imminent.


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## helmstead (Jul 5, 2009)

username taken said:
			
		

> HUGE amount of progress  Look at that udder!
> 
> I think you still might have 2 - 3 weeks or so to go ... she's certainly not imminent.


Agreed


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## lilhill (Jul 6, 2009)

2 or 3 weeks sounds about right to me, too.  Babies before too much longer!


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## parjackson (Jul 6, 2009)

THANK YOU!!!!  THANK YOU !!!!!   THANK YOU!!!!!

I thought I was imagining it, but you have put my mind at ease.  Spice is pregnant and the babies will appear in 2-3 weeks (probably)!  I am resting and not pulling my hair out any longer.  Next projects: hoof trimming and pre-kidding haircut!

I would find it vastly amusing if Spice decided to kid on the same day that my incubator full of duck eggs hatches (10 Khaki Campbells and 11 Silver Appleyard).  That's probably exactly what will happen.  Population explosion!

Thanks again, everybody.  I'll keep you "posted"!


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## wynedot55 (Jul 6, 2009)

yes she is bred because she is bagging to kid.


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## Dreaming Of Goats (Sep 1, 2010)

Pics of the kid?


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