# What were we thinking?



## Southern by choice (Oct 7, 2014)

What were we thinking?

We started getting the girls bred... Calculated the due dates for day 150.
UGH  We are gonna FREEZE!

Jan 9    Nigie x Nigie   
Jan 11  F-1 Mini mancha x F-1 Mini Mancha  
Jan 16  Nigie x Nigie   

Feb 27  Lamancha x Nigie for F-1 Mini's
Mar  2   Nigie x Nigie
Mar  5   Nubian x Nigie for F-1 mini's

the first 3 all within a week and then the next 3 same thing! 

Next ones won't be bred til  December/January!  May /June kids!  
Thank goodness! 

Hopefully I can get some pics soon!


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## Hens and Roos (Oct 7, 2014)

Pictures would be cool 

So what do you get for temperatures that time of year?  You could always bring them into the house...


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## mysunwolf (Oct 7, 2014)

I'm panicking too, even for March 1st! I can't even imagine January and February  We're in the mountains and I'm very concerned about our spring lambs. Of course, the ram is already out there. I can't figure out where my brain was when I decided that October 5th was a good idea   

Are goats kidding and sheep lambing in the cold any different? Maybe sheep are hardier? Or do goats have an easier time?

I bet there's going to be an ice storm and that will be the night...


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## OneFineAcre (Oct 7, 2014)

We've only bred one so far.  We are going to start breeding now for March and April kids.


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## SheepGirl (Oct 7, 2014)

Haha it will be ok! We had 2 ft of snow on valentines day last year and the next day my ewe had triplets. I hate being cold just as much as the next guy but I was out there for hours with them and I didnt even notice because I was distracted by my cute little lambs and shocked my ewe had triplets again in a row lol.


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## BrownSheep (Oct 7, 2014)

Three feet of snow and newborns who are certain they belong in the middle of a drift is the norm for lambing season.


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## goatgurl (Oct 7, 2014)

yes SBC what were you thinking?  lol.  just have a good place to put them if you need it and they'll do fine.  i haven't bred anyone yet but will start in about 10 days, mid march isn't to bad.  now the ram didn't listen to well when i spoke to him about waiting and i will have lambs in feb.  dang it!  will be waiting for pictures


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## Baymule (Oct 7, 2014)

SBC, looks like to me that you like all nighters in the barn in freezing weather, cozied in the hay with a thermos of hot chocolate.


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## goats&moregoats (Oct 7, 2014)

I wasn't thinking about the weather either!   I just knew I was selling the buck and I wanted kids to sell this year.  So this is what I am looking at.

Jan. 11th
Jan. 12th
Jan. 16th
Feb. 21st


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## Baymule (Oct 7, 2014)

@Southern by choice and @goats&moregoats maybe ya'll could text each other or talk on the phone to keep each other company on those long, freezing, cold, probably raining, or snowing, let's throw in some ice, dark, wintery, nights in the barn waiting for a doe to gift you with babies. And she'll have them while you're gone back to the house for more hot chocolate.


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## goats&moregoats (Oct 7, 2014)

Thanks for the comforting thought @Baymule. Maybe we can call you and you can share in our pleasant evenings..


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## Baymule (Oct 7, 2014)

And my phone number is........... 1-800-NOT-HAP'N


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## Southern by choice (Oct 7, 2014)

I choked on my doughnut!

I think I am gonna get a webcam or close in the side porch and that way I can stay inside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can look out the french door and say "oh, she is ready" and then step out!  Actually DD and I sleep in the barn usually. NOT HAPPENING THIS YEAR! Dh had the porch idea... I like it!


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## babsbag (Oct 8, 2014)

Webcam. You have enough techie people in your house to set one up...no problem.


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## Sweetened (Oct 8, 2014)

We`re due around valentines day -- just confirming breedings over this next week.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 8, 2014)

And now we are seriously out of control.... that was suppose to be it til January and the last would be bred then... 

BUT NOOOOO.......

One of our Nigies was screaming so much and humping all the other does and making us soooo crazy we finally threw her in the pen with a buck!  
Of course then she runs around like crazy and won't let him breed her...of course befor this she has her butt all up against the fence! She ran around the pen in circles at 100mph  Til she crashed into the corner and then he got her!  Bigdummy, I think she dazed herself when she crashed.
Never had anything like this happen before. BRAT!

So now we have 7 due.

NO MORE I TELL YA! NO MORE!


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## Southern by choice (Oct 8, 2014)

Oh, and BTW- most of the kids are being pulled this year!


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## Sweetened (Oct 8, 2014)

Oh my!


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## OneFineAcre (Oct 8, 2014)

Southern by choice said:


> I think I am gonna get a webcam or close in the side porch and that way I can stay inside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



We've always kept a baby monitor out in the pen when we've had babies due.  But, our new house is farther away from the animals, I'll have to see if it still works.


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## Hens and Roos (Oct 8, 2014)

Southern by choice said:


> Oh, and BTW- most of the kids are being pulled this year!


not being familiar with goats- why is this?


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## goatgurl (Oct 8, 2014)

SBC I'm thinkin' the porch is a good idea myself but if you and goatsandmoregoats want to conference call with baymule and enjoy your corner of the barn with a snuggly blanket and a thermos of coco that's ok too. lol   I'm a baby monitor kinda girl myself.  it will be a fun time for everyone.  and did you mean pulled as in out of mama or pulled as in taking them from mom after they are born.  little worried about that


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## babsbag (Oct 9, 2014)

I am pretty sure she meant taking them from mom after kidding 

@Southern by choice . Which doe was playing hard to get?

I only have two bottle fed does in my herd and I didn't raise them but I will tell you that they are so much easier to deal with. They follow me everywhere. I go check the fence and Lyla and Lucy are with me, just like a dog. I am ready to bottle raise this next year and replace all my brats.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 10, 2014)

@babsbag - It was Naomi! Nigerian Dwarf- brat. 

And yes Babs is right- pulling is taking them either at birth or after a few days. 

Hoping to do a post on this when I have time.


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Oct 10, 2014)

We're waiting another few weeks to breed our girls, so that we can travel for spring break this year.  Last year spring break was a staycation with baby goats...not that that's necessarily a bad thing.  There are much worse ways to vacation .  Anyway, we don't keep any bucks (yet) - we buy them for breeding season and sell them shortly afterward, but we were REALLY lucky to find a breeder who is holding two bucks for us until the end of the month.  

For Southern and the rest of you who have already bred/are currently breeding your girls, I'm sure that cold nights waiting for baby goats will bring lots of warm memories.


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## jodief100 (Oct 10, 2014)

Our winter born kids almost always do better then the spring born kids.  Winter means no bugs, no worms, no cocci, no flies.  Once spring hits they are big enough to handle it.  Last year was the exception because it got SOOOOOOO cold.  I find kidding down to about 15 degrees, they do fine.  Colder than that and I do middle of the night barn checks.


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## babsbag (Oct 10, 2014)

Colder than that I move.  

But seriously I had mostly Feb or early Mar kids last year and I usually do May. Other than me being outside in the cold waiting for kidding I do think they did better.

Also the hot days and cold night that will set them up for pneumonia isn't an issue in the winter.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 10, 2014)

babsbag said:


> Colder than that I move.




We have done Feb and on before but not January. I agree, so much netter on the kids and they grow better, mom's bounce back faster too IMO. 
I just HATE cold! 

I think I will do 3 5x5 kidding stall on the side porch... at night I'll bring the does up. That way I can stay warm and go out when I need to. We are pulling so many this year I think of sleep deprivation and then I think COLD and sleep deprived UGH!
The advantage of warm weather is all about me.


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## Hens and Roos (Oct 10, 2014)

What is the reasoning behind pulling the kids?  Friendlier/easier to handle?


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## babsbag (Oct 10, 2014)

IMO...She's lost her mind


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## goatgurl (Oct 12, 2014)

@Hens and Roos  she really hasn't gone over the deep end, just set herself up for a lot of work but it is something i have done and still do.  the kids are so much friendlier and easy to handle and that's for the rest of their lives.  if you are a hands on person bottle feeding is the way to go.


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## Hens and Roos (Oct 12, 2014)

that makes sense, friendlier and easier to handle is a good thing!


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## Southern by choice (Oct 12, 2014)

Working on an update...


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## goats&moregoats (Oct 12, 2014)

How do you all bottle feed? I mean what method. I bottle fed two last year. Actual bottles. This year I have the potential of having up to 12 kids. Should I try the nipple bucket? Does this get the same effect as with a direct bottle?

Another note: Last year I had the two Feb. babies. This year Jan & Feb. The barn is nice and cozy. It's the walk to and from. This years set up is even better as far as in the barn.


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## goatgurl (Oct 13, 2014)

if you have that many babies then a lambbar would definately work best for you.  when i was feeding that many i had the bucklings and doelings in separate pens and used the buckets.  it worked well and yes bucket fed babies are as tame and friendly as bottle babies because your still the mama even if you are a bucket mama


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## goats&moregoats (Oct 13, 2014)

Thank you for your response Goatgurl. I was thinking that it would work the same. I was told today by one of my goats(sent her a pic of goat at 2 months prego. She is huge already.) previous owners that she dropped quads last year, and the other one I got from her had triplets last year and quads the year before. I love the friendliness of my bottle fed babies.  I had two dammed raised and they were not near as friendly. They were ok, just not near as friendly. So I was wanting to bottle feed all this year.


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## OneFineAcre (Oct 14, 2014)

We are going to stick with having kids starting the first week of March through late April and then Dam raising them.

Most breeders that show as we do pull the kids and bottle raise primarily to help keep udders balanced.  But, we haven't had a huge problem keeping them even.

It is only logical that if you take the baby from her mom and you bottle or bucket feed them, you become their mom and they are going to be very friendly to you.  But, I don't want to be their mom.  Besides, if you spend some time with the kids when they are young, they will be plenty friendly.

As far as them always being friendlier, I don't agree with that, or at least it isn't my experience.  I've got 9 milkers now, 4 that were bottle raise, and 5 that were dam raise.  The friendliest one (Zamia) was bottle raised, but there isn't any difference in the others.  I don't know if I could take it if they were all like Zamia who is all on you when you come in the pen.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 14, 2014)

I did do an update under articles. It explains our journey into this new world of pulling. LOL  We are still in the experimental phase but have some very interesting observations. Dispelled some ideas I had about the process and has given a broader perspective.
We like to share all we can in hopes it may help someone along the way. IMO there many ways to raise goats and doing what works for you is most important.

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/dam-raised-bottle-raised-trough-raised-pulling-kids.29995/


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## babsbag (Oct 14, 2014)

I have only bottle raised when necessary and most of my goats are brats. Not so much hard to handle but hard to catch. Being that I am starting a dairy I have toyed with the idea of bottle raising kids and keeping them and replacing my wild gals. I still might, just can't decide. They will come for grain and to get milked with no problems though, bottle raised or not and since I machine milk even that isn't a problem.

Any that I buy will be bottle kids. I bought two mature does last year that were bottle raised and they are like dogs, they follow me everywhere. Definitely easier when you need them NOW.

But to be honest I have not spent much time with the kids, I was working full time so it was hard, i.e. impossible. I was told that there is a bonding age with kids, they said around 10 days old. So I guess if you are going to pull after a few days with mom you might still get that bonding experience with the kids. No experience, just what I was told.

I have a few more months to contemplate what to do next year. Eventually when the dairy is done the kids will be sold ASAP so I can have the milk. That part of raising goats and having a dairy makes me a little sad.


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## OneFineAcre (Oct 15, 2014)

babsbag said:


> I have only bottle raised when necessary and most of my goats are brats. Not so much hard to handle but hard to catch. Being that I am starting a dairy I have toyed with the idea of bottle raising kids and keeping them and replacing my wild gals. I still might, just can't decide. They will come for grain and to get milked with no problems though, bottle raised or not and since I machine milk even that isn't a problem.
> 
> Any that I buy will be bottle kids. I bought two mature does last year that were bottle raised and they are like dogs, they follow me everywhere. Definitely easier when you need them NOW.
> 
> ...



If you are going to have a dairy, you will have to pull the kids.  But, you will not be able to sell all of your kids, you will need to keep some for herd replacements.  Most commercial dairy's give milk replacer after a few days of colostrum.  There is also a "calf starter" feed that has milk.  We give that to our kids sometimes, and even sometimes to does to boost milk before a show.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 15, 2014)

I know that is the usual but at the same time I know of 2 small dairies averaging 20 goats or less that do not sell their kids right away. One dairy feeds kids milk from the does, no replacers the other dam raises. Because they are small dairies they can breed the does at different times and always have the milk available for cheese and kids. 
It does make sense to sell them right away though.


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## OneFineAcre (Oct 15, 2014)

Southern by choice said:


> I know that is the usual but at the same time I know of 2 small dairies averaging 20 goats or less that do not sell their kids right away. One dairy feeds kids milk from the does, no replacers the other dam raises. Because they are small dairies they can breed the does at different times and always have the milk available for cheese and kids.
> It does make sense to sell them right away though.



I would have thought it would not be possible to have an actual dairy with 20 goats or less.  You have my interest now.  Can you share information about these operations?


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## babsbag (Oct 22, 2014)

@Southern by choice  WHAT was I thinking????  I have 5 due the first week of Jan. and possibly 6. I guess you can text me on those long cold nights in the barn too


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## babsbag (Oct 22, 2014)

@OneFineAcre  I hear that all the time about dairies and 20 animals, etc.  I don't know if you saw the post I did in another thread but here is the link. I think the trick is to start small and design for growth.

I really should document all I am doing as I move forward.

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/new-milk-room-building-advice-welcome.30007/page-2


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## jodief100 (Oct 22, 2014)

OneFineAcre said:


> I would have thought it would not be possible to have an actual dairy with 20 goats or less.  You have my interest now.  Can you share information about these operations?



I visited a micro dairy in northern Ohio.  She had about 20 Sannans and LaManchas.  She started with a class B dairy and creamery, making cheese and selling it at the farmers markets.  Now she is a class A and sells milk and cheese to local stores, wineries and restaurants.


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## OneFineAcre (Oct 22, 2014)

babsbag said:


> @OneFineAcre  I hear that all the time about dairies and 20 animals, etc.  I don't know if you saw the post I did in another thread but here is the link. I think the trick is to start small and design for growth.
> 
> I really should document all I am doing as I move forward.
> 
> http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/new-milk-room-building-advice-welcome.30007/page-2



@babsbag 
I wish you good luck in your endeavor. 
I look forward to hearing news of your progress.


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Oct 23, 2014)

babsbag said:


> I was told that there is a bonding age with kids, they said around 10 days old. So I guess if you are going to pull after a few days with mom you might still get that bonding experience with the kids. No experience, just what I was told.



I haven't had extensive experience, but we had to bottle feed one of our doelings, Ami, for three days after she was born (she was premature).  We wanted her to be dam raised, so we brought her out on daily 'field trips' to mama so they stayed bonded.  It was sort of the best of both worlds.  My husband and I both work full time, so bottle raising all our kids is more than we're up for.  Three days was enough for us to not be exhausted, but not so long that mama goat lost interest.  

Ami is definitely the friendliest of our kids - she's nearly full grown now, but still thinks that curling up in my lap is a great idea (I have the hoof-shaped bruises to prove it ), but many of the dam-raised kids watched the way she would cuddle all the humans and curl up in our laps whenever we'd come out, and they followed suit.  We had a little buckling that was almost as friendly as Ami is.  He became a lap baby even though he was dam-raised.  We do have one or two of our goats that are harder to catch, but even being dam-raised, all the rest of them love to be petted and will often come when they're called.  Might be because we have 5 people on our farm, plus several friends and family members who visit, that looove baby goats, and the kids get plenty of human interaction.

I agree with Southern,  I think you just do what works best for you and your situation.


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