# Lump



## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

I took a picture of my goats lump, and I wanted to put it on her for everyone to see, so everyone could tell me what they think it is, but I don't know how to put a picture on here. How do you do it?


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## Goatherd (Sep 7, 2011)

I only know of one way to post pictures, but there may be other ways.  Are you familiar with on-line photo storage sites such as Photobucket? (I use that one but there are others)
If you are, you need to upload your photo to that site.  When it's done, you open the photo and copy the "image code."  Then you come to this site and paste the image code into your posting and, with any luck, your photo will appear.

Again, I'm sure they're are other ways, but I don't know them.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

Wonderful, thank you so much!


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## PattySh (Sep 7, 2011)

click on "uploads" at the top of your page right above your log in name. It should open up a "browse" box to allow you to upload from your computer files.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)




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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

I did it, thank you. I know it's hard to see, but it's on her neck. I will try to take a better one, when I feed her tonight.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 7, 2011)

(1) How old is this doe? 

(2)If she was bottle fed, it could just be a milk goiter. It is odd to only have a lump on one side with a milk goiter, but my doeling has one(father/brother tested neg for CL, waiting on mom's results, but assume since her son was clean, mom will be too), and it is slowly fading away.

(3) Have your vet take a sample and run a bacterial test. Most vets will only see a lump and assume it is CL. Better to know for a fact one way or the other, and sadly some vets have to be told what to look for.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

I was told that she is 1. I was worried that it's CL. Ok, I called the vet and I have to wait until next week. It was when they could get us in. I hope it's not CL.  The person that I bought her from claims that he tested her, but I am thinking that he didn't really do it. He claimed that he clipped her feet, but when we got her, she had very bad feet.  She was afraid of people, but now she is a love.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 7, 2011)

I would say it is very likely CL.  Don't let it rupture on your ground.   needs to be tested, cut open and cleaned out, so it will heal without getting on your farm.


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## Roll farms (Sep 7, 2011)

That ain't milk goiter.  Looks like CL *but* you can't be sure w/out testing.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

If it is CL, does this mean that she will keep getting lumps? Can she give it to my other goat? Does that mean that I shouldn't breed her? This is so frustrating. Can I do anything to the person that sold her to me? He told me that he tested her. My other goat doesn't have any lumps, so he can't try to tell me that my other goat gave it to her. I thought that if a goat has CL, they lose there hair on the lump?


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 7, 2011)

fortheloveofgoats said:
			
		

> If it is CL, does this mean that she will keep getting lumps? Can she give it to my other goat? Does that mean that I shouldn't breed her? This is so frustrating. Can I do anything to the person that sold her to me? He told me that he tested her. My other goat doesn't have any lumps, so he can't try to tell me that my other goat gave it to her. I thought that if a goat has CL, they lose there hair on the lump?


Yes, CL can pass through a herd, it can even "poison" your property for years if the lump bursts on your property.  I pray that it isn't CL, and that it is just a plain bacterial cyst. We have learned that it is quite important to get the proof of testing & the test results for the animal being purchased. If there was no paperwork or email proving that they said it tested negative, then there isn't much you can do, other then asking the vet to deal with the goat before the lump ulcerates(bursts). Hope she comes back clean for CL


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

This is so frustrating because, I told him I am new to all this. He even told me that I could have one goat. So like a idiot, I believed him. Instead of doing research. When I told him, I read you have to have more than one, he said I have another goat you can buy. I knew, he wasn't someone that loves goats, he just wants to make money. I have tried contacting him for proof, and he won't respond to me. I know that this is my own fault, sense I didn't do research, but he still didn't have to lie to me.


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## Goatherd (Sep 7, 2011)

> That ain't milk goiter


Agreed.  My one buckling had milk goiter and it looked nothing like that.


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## Roll farms (Sep 7, 2011)

Yes it's contagious, and yes your other goat can, and likely will, catch it.  
You *could* vaccinate to prevent it BUT the vaccine is only about 80-90% effective (here) and your other goat, if she came from the same place, may well already have it and just not have any lumps.  Does no good to vaccinate if they've been exposed...the evil of the disease is they can "look" fine for months, and then *poof* there's a lump.

Mine tend to get 1 or 2 lumps a year.  I cut them open, drain them, fill them w/ iodine or peroxide and drain again every 12 hrs until nothing 'icky' comes out, then let them heal.  I keep them isolated until they're scabbed over.

Stress seems to bring on 'outbreaks'.

The puss is the contagious part.  As long as that is destroyed / kept out of any area where they can get exposed, you can control it's spread to a degree, but you have to be very particular and you're goats will likely be miserable apart.

And humans can catch it if you get the pus in an open wound.  ALWAYS wear gloves when dealing w/ an abscess.

I don't know if these are 'just' pets, or you intend to go into breeding, etc, but if they're just pets, IMHO, CL is not a 'deal breaker'.  Inconvenient and nasty, yes...but manageable if you want to.

If you don't want to, cull them now before it bursts on your place.

I'm sorry.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Yes it's contagious, and yes your other goat can, and likely will, catch it.
> You *could* vaccinate to prevent it BUT the vaccine is only about 80-90% effective (here) and your other goat, if she came from the same place, may well already have it and just not have any lumps.  Does no good to vaccinate if they've been exposed...the evil of the disease is they can "look" fine for months, and then *poof* there's a lump.
> 
> Mine tend to get 1 or 2 lumps a year.  I cut them open, drain them, fill them w/ iodine or peroxide and drain again every 12 hrs until nothing 'icky' comes out, then let them heal.  I keep them isolated until they're scabbed over.
> ...


Thank you for all your information. This sucks! I was really hoping that it was just something else. I am glad you told me to wear gloves, I had no idea humans could get it. I will be getting her tested as soon as I can.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 7, 2011)

Goatherd said:
			
		

> > That ain't milk goiter
> 
> 
> Agreed.  My one buckling had milk goiter and it looked nothing like that.


When I posted what possibilities there were for what it could be, was prior to knowing the age of the animal. Obviously, at around 1 year old, it would not be a milk goiter.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

If my Boer goat has it, can we still butcher him? Can we get CL through eating the meat? Don't worry, we never planned on eating Lil Lady, we were planning on breeding her. If she turns out positive, not sure what we are going to do. Thanks again to everyone who commented.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 7, 2011)

fortheloveofgoats said:
			
		

> This is so frustrating because, I told him I am new to all this. He even told me that I could have one goat. So like a idiot, I believed him. Instead of doing research. When I told him, I read you have to have more than one, he said I have another goat you can buy. I knew, he wasn't someone that loves goats, he just wants to make money. I have tried contacting him for proof, and he won't respond to me. I know that this is my own fault, sense I didn't do research, but he still didn't have to lie to me.


I *so* hear & feel your frustration!

My farm learned the hard way, unless you know the herd, see the testing results and/or treatment history of the animal, NEVER take a "free" goat. "Free" goats are never free. Someone else on here told me, when our little "free" buckling died from pneumonia, breeders never give a good/healthy goat away. :/  It is sad that some people feel they have to be deceitful in order to get someone to take their problem away. If we had just been told that he had a bad respiratory issue, or that most of her herd does every spring/summer, we either would have told her that we would find a healthy buckling, or we could have gotten him the treatment he needed so he wouldn't have died.
I truly hope that it is just a plain bacterial cyst and not CL.


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## Roll farms (Sep 7, 2011)

Abscesses are actually the immune system 'walling off' the bacteria, to keep it from spreading.  When a goat w/ an abscess is skinned, the abscess can be seen / cut away w/ out bursting it, they're actually quite tough buggers until they're 'ripe'.  

If you couldn't eat goats w/ CL, I would guess that about 1/4 the goats sent to butcher wouldn't get eaten.

It's a LOT more common, esp. w/ meat goats, than most folks will admit to.  Most folks just send them off to butcher, unless it's a valuable show animal, then they keep em, breed em and THEN sell them for slaughter....after exposing the rest of the herd...and continuing the problem.

I kept mine / dealt w/ it b/c of sentimental reasons, and 10 yrs later I'm STILL dealing w/ it....if I knew then, what I know now...I'da culled the lot of them.

And for those who don't know, we 'caught' CL from boer does bought from another state, w/ health papers. :/


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## kstaven (Sep 7, 2011)

This is one of the reasons I NEVER buy anything from an auction, accept free animals, buy or allow an animal onto my property without full health certs and quarantine. It seems 9 times out of 10 you inherit some one elses problem buying animals these days. Even with all the testing in the world it still isn't 100%. With something like C.L. the bacteria can be tracked farm to farm by people.

Like many other things concerning animals, I think it is very safe to say that all of us have learned a thing or two the hard way. So don't be too hard on yourself.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> fortheloveofgoats said:
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We actually paid for her. He was wanting 75, but he told me if I bought her that day, he would take 65. So I said ok. It is sad that he was looking at his goats as money makers. When he told me I could buy a friend for my goat, he would give me the same deal. He was offering the other one because she only gave him one baby. So she was no good for him. He took in free goats, and would turn around and sale them. He left them out in a pasture, and didn't give them anything else. He said all they need is blackberries. The whole dang thing is sad, I was at least happy to get her out of there. She was deathly afraid of us, but once she found out we were good, she was like one of my dogs.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Abscesses are actually the immune system 'walling off' the bacteria, to keep it from spreading.  When a goat w/ an abscess is skinned, the abscess can be seen / cut away w/ out bursting it, they're actually quite tough buggers until they're 'ripe'.
> 
> If you couldn't eat goats w/ CL, I would guess that about 1/4 the goats sent to butcher wouldn't get eaten.
> 
> ...


Thank you again for your help. I was talking to my husband, and he said that for sure if she turns out positive, we will cull her. like you suggested.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

kstaven said:
			
		

> This is one of the reasons I NEVER buy anything from an auction, accept free animals, buy or allow an animal onto my property without full health certs and quarantine. It seems 9 times out of 10 you inherit some one elses problem buying animals these days. Even with all the testing in the world it still isn't 100%. With something like C.L. the bacteria can be tracked farm to farm by people.
> 
> Like many other things concerning animals, I think it is very safe to say that all of us have learned a thing or two the hard way. So don't be too hard on yourself.


That is why I didn't go to the auction. I know that those places are bad for sick animals. I went to someone's house, and believed everything he said. Like an uniformed idiot.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 7, 2011)

I can't stress it enough: Don't let the vet come to your property to do the lancing... make sure it is done at the vet's... cause if it turns out to be CL, then it will destroy your property for goats for years.

Also, please stop referring to yourself as an idiot. We all have made decisions that we ended up regretting later on for one reason or another. You are not an idiot.


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## kstaven (Sep 7, 2011)

Like I said in the previous post. We have all been there at some point. We need more people like yourself and many others who hang out here to get into animals and farming. At least then we would see problems dealt with rather than passed on.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> I can't stress it enough: Don't let the vet come to your property to do the lancing... make sure it is done at the vet's... cause if it turns out to be CL, then it will destroy your property for goats for years.
> 
> Also, please stop referring to yourself as an idiot. We all have made decisions that we ended up regretting later on for one reason or another. You are not an idiot.


Yeah, thank you for re posting that, I did forget. Thank you! I hope that she's not. I really do love her.  Thank you also for making some of the guilt go away. I usually am not one to just like something and go get it. I do all the research that I can. This was the first, and LAST time that I do that. Thank you for being such a kind person.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 7, 2011)

kstaven said:
			
		

> Like I said in the previous post. We have all been there at some point. We need more people like yourself and many others who hang out here to get into animals and farming. At least then we would see problems dealt with rather than passed on.


You are right as well. If only he would have talked to me about it. Oh well at least she has it better than what she had before.


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## babsbag (Sep 8, 2011)

I owned my first 3 goats for over a year before I learned about CL. I didn't even know enough to ask when I bought mine. I had one of my original does and a new wether get a lump under the ear and the vet thought for sure it was CL. So I tested the entire herd, at the time that was 8 goats. And while 2 did test positive for CL, it was not the ones with the lumps. Their lumps went away and never even came close to rupturing; the vet could not get any thing out of them either. My 2 positive does have not had an abcess in the 3 years that I have owned them and they have both kidded multiple times since I bought them. I expected an outbreak after the stress of kidding but it never came. I test my herd yearly and the rest of my herd test clean.

Don't give up yet, it might not be CL


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## kstaven (Sep 8, 2011)

There is an interesting difference in attitude concerning C.L.in North America than that in many parts of Europe. Here we tend to stress over it and consider it the end of the world while on the other side of the ocean it is "Lance the lump, clean it up and back to business as usual" They treat it more as a fact of life and having goats.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Sep 8, 2011)

There are lots of people out there, clearly, that manage CL positive herds.  You can pick up some nice animals fairly cheaply if you are willing to deal with the disease.  Instead of having to put her down, I would put her on Craigslist and be VERY clear that she has CL (if she is indeed positive) and that she must go to a CL positive home.  

 I have seen several posted online that are quite clear that the goat has CL. It's obviously families like yours that found out quite by surprise and are rehoming instead of destroying. In my opinion, reposting the goat with clear information about what she has will serve to 1) find her a home where someone is aware of the disease and is already managing for it 2) recoup some of the $65 you spent on her  3) allow you to not have too destroy an animal that you just got and are clearly attached to.   Also I think that if even a couple people see the add, look up CL and become educated about it, then the hassle of dealing with a couple cragislist idiots is worth it.  But that's just my .02. 


I'm really sorry you are dealing with this. It is NO fun knowing that there is something wrong with a pet and that it might be serious.       Hoping for the best for both of you.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 8, 2011)

The last 3 goats I purchased came from CL positive herds that vaccinate the kids. These were all very high-end show farms.  And they cost way more than 65 bucks.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Sep 8, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> The last 3 goats I purchased came from CL positive herds that vaccinate the kids. These were all very high-end show farms.  And they cost way more than 65 bucks.


So see, you may be able to recoup everything and find a home for her.   So while she is not a high end show animal where it is worth spending lots of money on to buy she's a cute little goat and I think somebody will want her.  CL can be managed for but if I previously had a clean farm I would not knowingly take it in unless I had a quarantine area set up, the goat was WAY worth it and I made the choice to manage for it.  Right now I'm not at that stage so I avoid it.  


Don't beat yourself up. We all get scammed on a goat purchase at some point.


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## marlowmanor (Sep 8, 2011)

Total newbie question here. What does CL stand for? I will gladly google it when I find out what it stands for so I can figure out what causes it, how to vaccinate, syptoms, treatment, etc.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I owned my first 3 goats for over a year before I learned about CL. I didn't even know enough to ask when I bought mine. I had one of my original does and a new wether get a lump under the ear and the vet thought for sure it was CL. So I tested the entire herd, at the time that was 8 goats. And while 2 did test positive for CL, it was not the ones with the lumps. Their lumps went away and never even came close to rupturing; the vet could not get any thing out of them either. My 2 positive does have not had an abcess in the 3 years that I have owned them and they have both kidded multiple times since I bought them. I expected an outbreak after the stress of kidding but it never came. I test my herd yearly and the rest of my herd test clean.
> 
> Don't give up yet, it might not be CL


Oh my goodness you made my morning. Thank you! I hope that I get to have a story like yours.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> There are lots of people out there, clearly, that manage CL positive herds.  You can pick up some nice animals fairly cheaply if you are willing to deal with the disease.  Instead of having to put her down, I would put her on Craigslist and be VERY clear that she has CL (if she is indeed positive) and that she must go to a CL positive home.
> 
> I have seen several posted online that are quite clear that the goat has CL. It's obviously families like yours that found out quite by surprise and are rehoming instead of destroying. In my opinion, reposting the goat with clear information about what she has will serve to 1) find her a home where someone is aware of the disease and is already managing for it 2) recoup some of the $65 you spent on her  3) allow you to not have too destroy an animal that you just got and are clearly attached to.   Also I think that if even a couple people see the add, look up CL and become educated about it, then the hassle of dealing with a couple cragislist idiots is worth it.  But that's just my .02.
> 
> ...


I was thinking that if she turned out positive, I would be very honest and put an ad on Craigslist, but I am also scared of what people will say. Some people have no clue about anything and make you feel like crap. Not saying that I would lie about her not having it, just scared of what people will say. There is no way I could kill her, she is one of my babies. I think that's what makes this so very hard, if she turns out positive, I can't keep her. I feel like I would be giving up on one of my babes. My husband told me that I am too busy to be taking care of her, the way that she would need, and I agree. Thank you for the hope, it's much needed.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> The last 3 goats I purchased came from CL positive herds that vaccinate the kids. These were all very high-end show farms.  And they cost way more than 65 bucks.


Wow, I would have not known that I could actually ask for what I paid for. I am actually really glad to hear that. I didn't want to just give her away because I was scared who she would go to. USUALLY, if you pay for something, you are going to want to take care of it.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
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I know that if I would have known she had it, I wouldn't have bought her, just because I know that I don't have the time or space to. You are a really great person, I hope that you know that. Thanks so much! I will make sure to keep you guys updated.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

marlowmanor said:
			
		

> Total newbie question here. What does CL stand for? I will gladly google it when I find out what it stands for so I can figure out what causes it, how to vaccinate, syptoms, treatment, etc.


http://goat-link.com/content/view/101/96/


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

I do have a question though, is it weird that it's on her neck? Isn't it also weird that she hasn't lost her hair? Anything that I read, it seems that it should be on the face, by the ear, and they lose their hair. I am hoping that the vet can get her in today. Waiting for 9 a.m. to come.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

Doctors office just called me back and I am getting her in at 5:00!!!! Everyone please be praying for me.


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## neener92 (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm praying for your little girl. My pet hair lamb got a lump, I was scared to death it was CL. La 200 for a few days cleared it up. Turned out to not be CL....I'm hoping it turns out that way for you!


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## marlowmanor (Sep 8, 2011)

fortheloveofgoats said:
			
		

> marlowmanor said:
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Thank you! Definately will read up on it. I want to have as much knowledge about goats as I can and taht includes diseases they can catch.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Sep 8, 2011)

Fingers are crossed for you.  It's a tough situation but ultimately it's not the end of the world. Use it to learn about Caseous lymphadenitis and how it expresses it self, what to look for, how to handle it, etc.   They don't lose the hair until they are closer to popping in my understanding.  Rolls could probably give you more info on that though since she has been managing for it for a while now I think. 

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/caseouslymphadenitis.html

This site has a diagram of likely spots for it to show up.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

neener92 said:
			
		

> I'm praying for your little girl. My pet hair lamb got a lump, I was scared to death it was CL. La 200 for a few days cleared it up. Turned out to not be CL....I'm hoping it turns out that way for you!


Thank you so much, I hope it turns out that way for me as well.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

marlowmanor said:
			
		

> fortheloveofgoats said:
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You are very welcome!


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> Fingers are crossed for you.  It's a tough situation but ultimately it's not the end of the world. Use it to learn about Caseous lymphadenitis and how it expresses it self, what to look for, how to handle it, etc.   They don't lose the hair until they are closer to popping in my understanding.  Rolls could probably give you more info on that though since she has been managing for it for a while now I think.
> 
> http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/caseouslymphadenitis.html
> 
> This site has a diagram of likely spots for it to show up.


That's the other site that I looked at, and she has the lump down on her neck, that's why I am asking. It's kinda the end of the world for me. If she has it, I will have to get rid of her. I have done a lot of research on it, and that is why I know I would have to find her another home. The reason why I am asking about the location and the hair loss is because I have read about hair loss and location and it's NOT in the location where it is in the diagrams, and she hasn't lost her hair. Trust me, I have looked at many different web sites, have talked to goat lovers, and my vet about CL. I have done my research.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

I only have the two goats, so when I take Lady in, what should I do with Fatso? I just don't want him to stress himself out. I am taking the car, the truck is not working right now, so I can't take him with me. Any ideas would be great, thank you.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

Well I took her in, and it's CL. Now to find her a home. I was told by the vet that there is a sanctuary in our area that has CL positive goats. So I hope that they will take her and she can live a long happy life. The vet also let me know that she wasn't takin care of by the previous owner, and that the I was takin for a ride by this guy. Is there anything I can do to this guy? He is doing this to other people.


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## Roll farms (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm sorry.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Sep 8, 2011)

I am SO SO sorry!!


 Did the vet lance it there?  Just want to make sure it won't drain on your property and cause problems.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 8, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I'm sorry.


Thank you! What I am not looking forward to, is telling the kids.  I cried the whole way home with Lady, I can only imagine what they are going to do.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 8, 2011)

Oh, I am so sorry. I would definitely be vocal with people about what he did to you... warning them that he deals very shadily.
The vet just might be willing to testify on your behalf that the guy flat out lied to you about the health & care of this animal... if you decided to take a case to civil court in charging him with soem form of fraud.... Since he lied to you to get you to purchase a diseased animal.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 8, 2011)

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> I am SO SO sorry!!
> 
> 
> Did the vet lance it there?  Just want to make sure it won't drain on your property and cause problems.


X's 2... ??


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## kstaven (Sep 8, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> Oh, I am so sorry. I would definitely be vocal with people about what he did to you... warning them that he deals very shadily.
> The vet just might be willing to testify on your behalf that the guy flat out lied to you about the health & care of this animal... if you decided to take a case to civil court in charging him with soem form of fraud.... Since he lied to you to get you to purchase a diseased animal.


Before a person gets too verbal one wants LAB RESULTS to verify CL positive or the tables could turn. Without this even the vets testimony could be classed as opinion or suspected CL.


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## babsbag (Sep 8, 2011)

I am sorry that you are dealing with this, it is tough. These animals get ahold of our hearts so quickly.

I have to ask...how did the vet determine that it is CL so quickly? My vet had to send in the pus for a culture and /or do a blood draw and send it off. I have never heard of a definitive answer being given while at the first vet visit. 

I know that the location and the content of the abcess can be rather telling, but I am just curious if there is a test or some other method that I have missed.


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## Island Creek Farm (Sep 9, 2011)

Have to agree with the previous post here!  Some vets automatically assume ANY lump on the neck is CL, but it isn't always so.  From what we've been told by AU, is that cultures HAVE to be sent off and returned as positive...location may be purely coincidental.  We had a HUGE salivary cyst that our horse vet (love him to death...but, he ISN'T a goat vet!) swore was CL...had it checked and tested and it was nothing serious at all.  I hope for your sake and your goats, that your vet took a sample and sent it to be tested!~



wow Babs! I lived in Anderson briefly!  Small world!  LOL


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## Goatherd (Sep 9, 2011)

While your goat may in fact have CL, which I am sorry to hear, I wouldn't make any decisions about the animal until an actual lab test confirmed the diagnosis.  This would also apply to any plans you might have to expose this man to others.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 9, 2011)

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> I am SO SO sorry!!
> 
> 
> Did the vet lance it there?  Just want to make sure it won't drain on your property and cause problems.


You know I really didn't care for this vet. She wouldn't lance it for me. Not to mention she was telling me my best bet to get my money out of her, was to send her to auction, where she would be sold as a meat goat. Thank you for the support.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 9, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> Oh, I am so sorry. I would definitely be vocal with people about what he did to you... warning them that he deals very shadily.
> The vet just might be willing to testify on your behalf that the guy flat out lied to you about the health & care of this animal... if you decided to take a case to civil court in charging him with soem form of fraud.... Since he lied to you to get you to purchase a diseased animal.


Thank you. I like the idea of making this guy go out of business. Anytime that I see him put an ad on Craigslist, listing to take your unwanted goat, I delete it.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 9, 2011)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I am sorry that you are dealing with this, it is tough. These animals get ahold of our hearts so quickly.
> 
> I have to ask...how did the vet determine that it is CL so quickly? My vet had to send in the pus for a culture and /or do a blood draw and send it off. I have never heard of a definitive answer being given while at the first vet visit.
> 
> I know that the location and the content of the abcess can be rather telling, but I am just curious if there is a test or some other method that I have missed.


She told me that they can actually do the testing there to see if it is or not, but for the actual yes, they would have to send it off. She said that the location, and what she saw was definitely leaning towards CL. She said not to mention the poor health that she was in. I told her about when I first picked up Lady, she pooped and peed in the car. The pee was almost bloody looking, and she said that was because she wasn't getting enough water. I told her how I noticed none of the goats had anything else other than blackberries, and she said that means that they didn't have the proper diet either.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 9, 2011)

Goatherd said:
			
		

> While your goat may in fact have CL, which I am sorry to hear, I wouldn't make any decisions about the animal until an actual lab test confirmed the diagnosis.  This would also apply to any plans you might have to expose this man to others.


I still want to expose this man to others. He told me that he clipped her feet, and the poor thing was going limp in her back leg because her nails were so bad. Not to mention she was under weight, she was infested with worms, she had a horrible cough, and to make thing's worse, he had chickens, ducks, a very under weight and sick looking calf. This guy is just out to make money from these poor babies.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 9, 2011)

kstaven said:
			
		

> Livinwright Farm said:
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I was speaking more to that fact that the vet told the OP that the previous owner didn't take care of the animal, and that she was taken for a ride by the guy.

I second everyone who has mentioned getting testing done, not just a vet looking at it and assuming, Like I mentioned before a bacterial test MUST be done. Too many vets now a days will assume, which can lead to the death of an animal that just had a harmless bacterial cyst. Unfortunately, this may require telling the vet, "Look, I understand your position, but I want you to lance this lump, and send a sample for testing. It is my goat, and my money. So, do what I'm asking you to do. Thank you."  A lot of vets seem to think that it is in your best interest to just ditch the current goat and get a new one.  They fail to see the fact that we care as much for our goats as we do our family, cats, and dogs. They are not just livestock, they are an extension of our family.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 9, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> kstaven said:
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I have to agree with you. The one thing that did bother me, the office told me that the vet is a good vet because she has her own goats. That really surprised me that she was telling me to start over again. I think it was because of how bad of condition Lil Lady is in though. She told me that it would be best to save up and get good quality goats. I have learned my lesson, from now on, I will be getting goats that I know are being takin care of. I know that I still have a chance of getting something that isn't the best health, but I am sure it would be in better health than what my Lil Lady is. Maybe I can find someone on here that is in Oregon. Who knows.


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## babsbag (Sep 9, 2011)

What part of Oregon? I am not in OR, I am in No. California and next spring I could put you in touch with some friends that have very NICE goats of many different breeds. I belong to a North Valley Dairy Goat Association and we have members that raise just about every dairy breed, as well as boers. They all test for CL/CAE yearly and take very good care of thier animals. You would not be sorry getting a goat from anyone of them.

I am sorry your little goat is going through this, and you too. I hope you can find her a good home. I understand wanting to start over clean. While I have never had an abcess sometimes I wish I didn't have this lurking over my herd.  

Good luck, and PM me if you want any names of breeders.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 10, 2011)

babsbag said:
			
		

> What part of Oregon? I am not in OR, I am in No. California and next spring I could put you in touch with some friends that have very NICE goats of many different breeds. I belong to a North Valley Dairy Goat Association and we have members that raise just about every dairy breed, as well as boers. They all test for CL/CAE yearly and take very good care of thier animals. You would not be sorry getting a goat from anyone of them.
> 
> I am sorry your little goat is going through this, and you too. I hope you can find her a good home. I understand wanting to start over clean. While I have never had an abcess sometimes I wish I didn't have this lurking over my herd.
> 
> Good luck, and PM me if you want any names of breeders.


 Thank you for understanding!


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## neener92 (Sep 10, 2011)

So sorry to hear about your little Lady.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 10, 2011)

Thank you neener92!


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## neener92 (Sep 10, 2011)

You're welcome! Things will get better!


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## damummis (Sep 10, 2011)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I am sorry that you are dealing with this, it is tough. These animals get ahold of our hearts so quickly.
> 
> I have to ask...how did the vet determine that it is CL so quickly? My vet had to send in the pus for a culture and /or do a blood draw and send it off. I have never heard of a definitive answer being given while at the first vet visit.
> 
> I know that the location and the content of the abcess can be rather telling, but I am just curious if there is a test or some other method that I have missed.


My thoughts exactly.  I am going out on a limb here but there is NO WAY that vet had test results without lancing it.  Any blood drawn or did they just look at it and say, "Yup, that's CL."?  Get another opinion. 

I too have been dealt a raw deal with my goats.  I got them both with lumps.  I know exactly how you feel.  I took both girls over to the neighbors driveway when he was in FL and lanced both abscesses there.  Cleaned them out, like Rolls said to.  I started them on an immune builder thanks to Babsbag and they are doing great.  I did not have them tested.  I just treat them like they are CL positive even if they are not.  Daisy did get a splinter from the rough cut barn over the summer and that abscessed right up.  I still dealt with it like a CL abscess.  Keep your chin up.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 10, 2011)

She stuck a needle into it, and looked at it. I can't take her over to any of my neighbors, they have farm animals themselves.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 10, 2011)

neener92 said:
			
		

> You're welcome! Things will get better!


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 10, 2011)

damummis said:
			
		

> I took both girls over to the neighbors driveway when he was in FL and lanced both abscesses there.  Cleaned them out, like Rolls said to.


Does your neighbor know that their property is potentially infected with CL now? I am trying not to be rude or overreact here, but that is a serious deal(potentially even a criminal one- given the infectious disease part). You felt the need to take the goats off _your_ property to lance them, believing it to be CL... and chose to potentially infect your neighbor's property? 
Have you told them that you did this?  I ask, because they are legally required to disclose if there is any contagious disease or the potential for one on the property should they ever choose to sell. Not to mention the fact that they might like knowing anyways.
I appologize if this came across abrasive, but the way you worded what you said, implies that you did it without your neighbor's knowledge.


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## damummis (Sep 11, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> damummis said:
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Yes, he knows.  I did put a plastic sheet down and took all the necessary precautions so as not to get it on the ground.  He understands what I did and didn't have a problem with it giving the method it was done.  I can totally understand your concern.  I could have worded it differently.    It isn't his house property or I wouldn't have asked.  It is a rock quarry/work pit.  Not that it should make a difference.  Just to add, everything I used went into the brush fire DH had going at the time, except the plastic.  That got carefully rolled and double bagged and sent to the dump.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 11, 2011)

damummis said:
			
		

> Livinwright Farm said:
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*insert sigh of relief here*  Glad to hear that.


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## Island Creek Farm (Sep 12, 2011)

I got lost here...are you sending a sample off to be cultured or are you just going to get rid of her?  I understand wanting to start over, but without lab results, you could potentially be consigning her to meat over a simple splinter abscess.  If I missed something sorry..it's awfully early here!


Was the pus thick  like cottage cheese, or "normal" pus?


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## ksj0225 (Sep 22, 2011)

Was there ever any update?


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## mydakota (Sep 23, 2011)

One of my goats had a suspicious lump this summer.  I was worried sick and prepared for the worst.   A lab culture showed it to NOT be CL.  Not every lump is CL.  I hope you had it tested.


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