# *update Babies 1-1-12*!!! And some New questions



## WhiteWaterFarms (Nov 26, 2011)

OK, our oldest doe was 8 months when we got her in June, she had one heat in late June early July and after that we haven't seen anymore "heats" from her. 
She's started to get bigger udders and belly. She lives with our only buck and our African pygmy....so we can't be sure when she got pregnant if she is pregnant. 
As to why the buck is with the girls, we had a room for him, but the coyote's got in the room. Our big dog got there and scared them away and we got there seconds later. So until we can get the room coyote proofed (it's a really old barn) he's with the girls.

So here is the questions:
1. Do I need to worry about her being to young?
2. could she be pregnant? or just putting on weight? (they get free range goat feed and hay)
3. Anything i need to do to keep the baby safe if she is pregnant? (i got her on milking goat food cause the co-op said it would help if she was pregnant. 

Pic's






















Now about the buck, anyone know what breed he is? (we love him he goes "Waaa-t" it sound like his going "what?" it's cute!)





*


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## elevan (Nov 26, 2011)

*1. Do I need to worry about her being to young?*
Yes, you do need to be concerned.  Her body may not be developed enough to pass a kid through.  Her hips look so narrow.  Have a vet on stand by in case a c-section is needed.

*
2. could she be pregnant? or just putting on weight? (they get free range goat feed and hay)*
It's definitely possible.  In the rear shot of her, it looks like she's developing an udder.  Is that correct?  If she is then she is most likely pregnant (unless she is precocious).

*
3. Anything i need to do to keep the baby safe if she is pregnant? (i got her on milking goat food cause the co-op said it would help if she was pregnant. *
It sounds like this is your first kidding?  Find yourself a goat farmer close by or a vet that can be there to assist.
Don't overfeed, you don't want the kid to get huge.  Sounds like she'd be due early to mid December, so be prepared.
Here's a page on goat kidding:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=586-goats-kidding


As to your side question on your buck's heritage.  He looks like a pygmy cross to a dairy breed.

How old is your pygmy doe?  She looks pretty young...she could be bred as well.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Nov 26, 2011)

No, goat farmers around here will do anything....one that offered to answer questions hung up on me when i needed her the most (i cut to deep on the hoof trimming and couldn't get her to stop bleeding). 

Our large animal vet is going under and working at a stable so she doesn't come. We're trying to find a new vet.

Yes she started to get a bigger uder and tits. 

Yes, first kidding we were going to wait untill cashmere was older but then this happened.

The pygmy doe, misty, we don't know how old she is, but she has come into heat, two months after we got her. we brought her to the house and she stayed with the chickens for a while...but we haven't seen anymore "heats". But she's alittle scary and hides alot so it's hard to tell.

Can a vet do a c-section at the barn or the vets office? or would we have to go to TN's big animal hospital?
The cashmere is small for her to be due in dec.....i don't know if that's good or bad.


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## RareBreedFancier (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm guessing if Misty hasn't come back into heat there is a very good chance she's bred too. 

I don't know if a C-section can be done at home but given your not even sure if you can get a vet to come I'd be planning for a trip to the big animal hospital.

Does don't have to look hugely pregnant to have a big baby in there. This is my doe 9 days before she gave birth to a nearly 9 pound buckling. 





I had to help a little but I've had experience with lambs, calves and foals so goats aren't much different. Given this is your first time you definitely want to be prepared to get a vet in or take her to one if something's not right. Good luck!


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## Roll farms (Nov 27, 2011)

I would be more concerned w/ the smaller doe than the bigger one.

The reason being, the bigger one's not done growing.  It looks like she will be bigger than the buck.  USUALLY, breeding a smaller buck to a bigger doe means easy kidding.  Yes, she's young - but if she kids at 13 mos. it doesn't have to be the end of the world...she may do fine.  I've (purposely) had does kid at 12 mos (kiko crosses) and they did fine.
Where you could have problems is if she has a single big kid.  Twins are generally smaller / easier.

The smaller doe could have problems delivering kids sired by a bigger buck.  It's been my experience that pygmies are slightly more prone to kidding problems from overly-large kids than standard breeds.

One thing to avoid - DO NOT overfeed her the last 4 wks of pregnancy.  Don't starve her, of course, but kids do the bulk of their growing in that last 30 days and you may think you're 'helping' her  by giving more grain, but you'll be making bigger kid(s).  I would guesstimate that 1-1.5 cup of grain morning and evening should be plenty for her, along w/ free choice hay.  I would think 1/2-3/4 cup for the pygmy doe.
Once she's kidded, you can gradually up her grain and give her alfalfa hay or pellets, she will need it then to produce milk / regain her condition.

I would definitely try to find a vet, just in case, and build a rapport before you need them.
A C-section CAN be done in the barn...but it'd be safer and cheaper at a clinic.

You might consider getting some BoSe (selenium / vitamin E combo injection) for her, esp. if you're in a selenium deficient area.  
I always vaccinate my does 5 wks before they kid with CD/T.  Helps w/ kids getting passive immunity in the colostrum.  I give them a BoSe shot 5 wks and 2 wks pre-kidding.
The BoSe makes for stronger kids, and may well help the doe w/ kidding.

Get a good goat mineral (not a block, not a cow or sheep mineral - Manna Pro goat mineral is available at TSC and is good for small herds) and put it out daily in a small bowl / feeder.  They may not eat much, so just put out a bit at first.  Mineral deficient goats have more kidding problems.

Keep in mind that if they actively push for more than 1 hour, someone (vet, you, goat friend) needs to go in and investigate.

Best of luck to you....


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Nov 27, 2011)

She's had a CD/T when she was with the other owner would she need it again?
We have a cow farmer down the road from us would it have to be a goat person or could a sheep or cow farmer help?

Yes, i'm worried about the little girl too. Cause i know they can have problems, but the cashmere one showed first so we know she's due first. 
We may get the vet to do a ultrasound on her and if she's pregnant and it's a single then we'll think about aborting it, if it's not to late.

Hopefully we can find a vet, and find one that can do payments if needed. Cause we don't have hundreds lying around. 

*Edit to add*
is the BoSe a SQ or IM shot?
 Also is it safe to worm her? she's having coughing spells but is other wise fine, no temp,eating good, active. So i'm thinking it's lungworms or dust. (the barn is dirt floor and dust stirs up easy, and the buck,Bolt, sneezes alot)


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## elevan (Nov 27, 2011)

Finding a vet is important.  Once you build a relationship with one then they'll usually work out payment...but if it's your first call they'll probably say all up front.

On CD/T - I prefer to give my does a shot 30 days prekidding.  But if you can't just make sure you give the kid a shot at 1 week of age (a booster at 4-5 wks of age).

Don't automatically jump to lungworm just because she's coughed a few times.  Here's a good thread for you to read on the coughing:  http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=15140

Bo-Se is IM injection and you need to obtain it from a vet.

On deworming...you don't want to give valbazen to a pregnant doe.

You could have a blood test done on the pygmy doe to check to see if she's bred.  I would abort if she is.


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## 20kidsonhill (Nov 27, 2011)

a local sheep farmer could be a quit a bit of help, even a cattle farmer that has some experience with giving shots and giving oral medicines would be helpful. 

I agree, I would considering be aborting the pygmy doe for her health. The other doe, looks big enough framed and old enough. We kid out at 13 and 14 months quit often.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Nov 27, 2011)

I have a lead on a possible  vet for them, will call next week. We have a vet that use to do large and small animals, but when we asked about it when we brought in a cat they said they only do horses now and soon will just be doing small animals....it sucks cause they would have been great, we've been with them for 22 years or more and the vet is super nice, but he's older....so that maybe why they're not doing anymore.

I'll get the vet to do the blood taking for the little one cause I'm afraid I'd hurt her badly if i tried. 
I wish I had someone that's done it before that could watch me. I'm not afraid of blood, I'm afraid of killing the animal. I'm still wiry of trimming hoofs because i hurt cashmere, but i know i have to get over it.

The pygmy is my moms and I talked it over with her and we will be aborting the baby if she pregnant, first to find out if she is. 
Why is it that goat decide to get sick or need a vet when you don't have money? why not in summer....


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Nov 29, 2011)

*Update: *I called the vet and they do goats, but they have to see her once before they can come for emergency's. So I'm going to call back tomorrow to talk with the vet and set up an appointment for a check up and ultrasound. 

If she's pregnant anyone want to bet on when she kids? Winner can name the baby!


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## SmallFarmGirl (Nov 29, 2011)

December 17 , 18 , or on Christmas eve or Day !!


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## Renegade (Nov 29, 2011)

DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION- Inject subcutaneously or intramuscularly.



This is straight off the Bo-Se label.

I prefer SQ myself.

Donna


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## autumnprairie (Nov 29, 2011)

I say Dec 22 or the 28


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Nov 29, 2011)

*Renegade* Thanks, I'll get some for her when she goes to the vet. i'll probably do SQ if i can. 

oh i hope it's a twins and around christmas that would be so great! that's be my christmas gift!! 

Her ligaments are getting softer, but still there....like to soft pencils.


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## RareBreedFancier (Nov 30, 2011)

I vote for Christmas too, goats have a sense of humor like that.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Dec 5, 2011)

*UPDATE*: Ok, the vet saw my girl today! He did a ultrasound and she is pregnant.  
He couldn't tell me how many kids.
The shaver died on him, he had to do through hair and it/they would not stop moving around.  He said she's very healthy and the cough is probably from the baby/babies or dust from the dirt floor in the barn. She's not whizzing, pale or running a fever.

He joined in on the bet and said she'd probably have the kid/s around mid December or Jan. He bet on the 25th of dec. 

So now i'm on kid watch!


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## Roll farms (Dec 5, 2011)




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## autumnprairie (Dec 5, 2011)

CONGRATS!!!!


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## doxiemoxie (Dec 7, 2011)

awesome! another baby watch


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## elevan (Dec 7, 2011)




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## Ariel72 (Dec 15, 2011)

Any news?  Hope all goes well for you!


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## Ms. Research (Dec 16, 2011)

Ariel72 said:
			
		

> Any news?  Hope all goes well for you!


Ditto!  

K


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Dec 16, 2011)

Nope, her uder has gotten bigger and she's leaking clear fluid for a week or so now. She's not happy i know, she's so big and has trouble moving like she use too. When I'm over there she hides behind me and leans on me. But that kid/kids are taking their sweet time.  
I'll get pictures tomorrow if i can remember.


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## Cara Peachick (Dec 16, 2011)

Were you able to find out if the pygmy is pregnant?

I'm in TN too.  Where are you?


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## Ms. Research (Dec 17, 2011)

Any news yet?  

I wouldn't be happy either being that uncomfortably large to not even get out of your own way.  Hoping the kids make up their mind and give Mom a break and an easy time coming.

K


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Dec 17, 2011)

Cara Peachick said:
			
		

> Were you able to find out if the pygmy is pregnant?
> 
> I'm in TN too.  Where are you?


No the vet couldn't tell yet. She gave them alot of trouble when they tried.

I'm in NC right next to the TN line. I go through the gorge or parkway and I'm in TN.

*Ms. Research:* yeah i hope so too. I feel for her.

I didn't get pic's today, my rooster fell between  the coop walls and got stuck. we had to spend the day getting him out.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Dec 18, 2011)

photo's 
*Today:*





*Nov 22:*





Cashmere's teats are as long has my pointer finger. Is that long fr a first timer? I thinking she may have been breed before....when we got her; it was her,her sister, her mom and a another little kid in a room. The guy said it was her sister that her mom had 3 or so months ago. 

*
More from today:*





Cashmere and Misty(our little pygmy)


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## Roll farms (Dec 19, 2011)

If she's only a year old (or close), I'd doubt she's kidded before.

If you plan to milk her, long teats are a good thing.  It can happen w/ ff's.

What's the purple spot on her back?  If it's real, I must get a purple spotted goat!


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## Queen Mum (Dec 19, 2011)

Looks like she is shaping up with a nice little udder.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Dec 19, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> If she's only a year old (or close), I'd doubt she's kidded before.
> 
> If you plan to milk her, long teats are a good thing.  It can happen w/ ff's.
> 
> What's the purple spot on her back?  If it's real, I must get a purple spotted goat!


Yeah, that spot is from when her hoof got hurt. ^^ we were putting blu-cote on the wound and she kicked and sent the stuff all over us and her.  I have a jacket that looks like her too. It's caught on. Everyone in the valley loves her. 
she's been walked around the valley and the kids loved her. She's a sweet heart.

I love the purple so much i said when it fades i may have another "mishap" with the blu-cote again.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 19, 2011)

Perhaps you can just give her a little purple touch up.  Sort of like doing roots.  No one needs to know that she and Ms. Blue Kote are best friends.  Ms. Clairol and I used to be really close until Ms. Clairol got all snotty and stopped making a formula that covered all my gray.  

She's young.   You know Koolaide works too.   But I kind of like the blue kote look.


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## Roll farms (Dec 20, 2011)

I had a rooster get attacked years ago by some varmint, I put blue kote on his wounds.  
You know that stuff lasts and lasts so I got a lot of "Where did you get that purple chicken???" questions before it finally faded off.

eta....wondering if I should dip one of my fluffy white silkies in koolaid or blue kote now....


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## autumnprairie (Dec 20, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I had a rooster get attacked years ago by some varmint, I put blue kote on his wounds.
> You know that stuff lasts and lasts so I got a lot of "Where did you get that purple chicken???" questions before it finally faded off.
> 
> eta....wondering if I should dip one of my fluffy white silkies in koolaid or blue kote now....


My DD did her white long hair kitten in blue koolaide he was blue for about 6 months


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Dec 21, 2011)

autumnprairie said:
			
		

> Roll farms said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  Poor kitty!!
*Roll farms:*Oh, i have a porcelain de'uncle rooster that has blue kote feet. ^^ we have BIG rats that like his toes.
If i had a white or pale chicken i would so do that. ^^ but my girls are all dark brown or black. the rooster is the only pale one and he hates my guts and has huge spurs. 

*Queen Mum:* I may do that. i love my purple goat.  Tho i may check out the blue koolaide. *evil laugh* poor cashmere.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Dec 29, 2011)

*A small update:*

Cashmere is ok so far, no babies yet. She's softened up a lot more i had to feel forever before i found them...But she's not in labor as far as i know. My guess is tomorrow or this weekend. Of course next we're going to get snow so she may kid then. 

We had a little scare with the little girl misty, her belly started to get bigger and she was crying alot more. We where worried she was pregnant and something was wrong. But when i checked her, her eye membrane was pale, called the vet and was told to worm her. We did and her belly is not as big, so hopefully she will be good now.


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## autumnprairie (Dec 29, 2011)

WhiteWaterFarms said:
			
		

> *A small update:*
> 
> Cashmere is ok so far, no babies yet. She's softened up a lot more i had to feel forever before i found them...But she's not in labor as far as i know. My guess is tomorrow or this weekend. Of course next we're going to get snow so she may kid then.
> 
> We had a little scare with the little girl misty, her belly started to get bigger and she was crying alot more. We where worried she was pregnant and something was wrong. But when i checked her, her eye membrane was pale, called the vet and was told to worm her. We did and her belly is not as big, so hopefully she will be good now.


I hope all is well with her from now on. Come on Cashmere stop holding out on us.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 30, 2011)

WhiteWaterFarms said:
			
		

> *A small update:*
> 
> Cashmere is ok so far, no babies yet. She's softened up a lot more i had to feel forever before i found them...But she's not in labor as far as i know. My guess is tomorrow or this weekend. Of course next we're going to get snow so she may kid then.
> 
> We had a little scare with the little girl misty, her belly started to get bigger and she was crying alot more. We where worried she was pregnant and something was wrong. But when i checked her, her eye membrane was pale, called the vet and was told to worm her. We did and her belly is not as big, so hopefully she will be good now.


Wow, no babies yet. I will have to say, I would have guessed sooner than this.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Dec 30, 2011)

yeah me too. 
I think they want to kill poor cashmere.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 1, 2012)

it's baby time!!


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## autumnprairie (Jan 1, 2012)

WhiteWaterFarms said:
			
		

> it's baby time!!


YAY!!!!!   waiting for pics too


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 1, 2012)

I got pic's. One kid so far, waiting for after birth or another kid. she's still big so probably another kid. ^^ this one has floppy ears and is red-brown with white marks.


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## autumnprairie (Jan 1, 2012)

WhiteWaterFarms said:
			
		

> I got pic's. One kid so far, waiting for after birth or another kid. she's still big so probably another kid. ^^ this one has floppy ears and is red-brown with white marks.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok Pic's!!


























*
And a Important question!!*
She had the first baby at 1:45 and passed a long purple,blue brown thing a hour later I'd say. It's been three hours since then could she still have another baby? or is she done? She's whining alot. I've tried bouncing but i can't tell, i couldn't tell when she was still pregnant either....

Also, any idea's for names? Like New year names? So far we have Star or Eve.


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## Ms. Research (Jan 2, 2012)

Congratulations on the new baby!  She's sweet.  Love names names Star or Eve.  

Hoping Mom and Baby are doing well.

K


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## autumnprairie (Jan 2, 2012)

She is beautiful, did Cashmere have any more?


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## SmallFarmGirl (Jan 2, 2012)

The Purple thing is the afterbirth .... there are no babies after that. How bout Fire works ???? Bubbles ??? Confetti ???


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 2, 2012)

she looks like she is doing well.  Congrats!


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## daisychick (Jan 2, 2012)

That is one cute New Years baby!!  I love her little freckled ears.     Mom and baby both look great!


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## Jen4 (Jan 2, 2012)

So Sweet! Congratulations.


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 3, 2012)

*Autumnprairie:* No one more but she's still huge, of course she was allowed to free range food and hay. 
*Everyone:*anks, We love her to death. she's so spoiled. (the baby is a girl we think.)

She did the weirdest thing, before the baby was out all the way she started sucking on her tits....For a long time. The baby came out and she kept sucking away. I was worried cause it was cold and my mother and grandmother said not to touch the baby besides to clean out the mouth. She finally stopped and started cleaning the baby.


They baby did come out in a weird position, head first with one leg forward and one stuck back so cashmere had trouble getting it out. After she passed the after birth i let cashmere suck molasses off my finger. 
I have a question, when the baby feeds cashmere won't leave the little ones butt alone so she can't feed long....is that normal?


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 3, 2012)

yes, the butt thing is normal, Nothing more frustrating than getting a weak baby standing and nursing just to have mom knock it off with her over zealous mothering skills.


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## Cara Peachick (Jan 4, 2012)

I've not heard of the teat sucking thing in goats, but I know in HUMANS, nipple stimulation stimulates contractions during labor, so maybe she knows this too!  

The baby is lovely, congrats.

BTW, I always help dry off my babies with towels and "pee pads".  I usually move them to the front of mom too, if she's still laying down, so she has easy access to lick them off.  Not sure why your mom said not to touch the baby ((shrug)).

Also, the easiest way to tell the sex of the baby is to count the holes.  1 hole = boy.  2 holes = girl.  It's easier to see than looking for male "equipment" lol.

Congratulations Cashmere!


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 5, 2012)

Yeah...my cashmere is weird i guess.  
Thanks, I think they where worried cashmere would reject the baby.

Yeah, that's how I'm doing it. ^^ She's got two holes, and pee's like her momma. they even had a mamma and daughter pee. cashmere and the baby peed side by side at the same time.


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## Cara Peachick (Jan 6, 2012)

Congrats on the baby girl!  Yahoo!


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## WhiteWaterFarms (Jan 7, 2012)

Ok, i got the weird goat.... she's in heat and won't even look at the baby. Thankfully it can still get milk from her, Our misty is keeping star warm and cuddling her. 
Thank god we moved Bolt to a different room, no more kids for cashmere. But it's funny she's trying to get into Bolt's room.
Updated pic's(took the last night before cashmere came into heat.)


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## Ms. Research (Jan 7, 2012)

How could Mom not look at that sweet baby.  Sorry to hear Mom's more interested in boys than her sweet little one.  

She is precious.  



K


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## RareBreedFancier (Jan 7, 2012)

Soooo cute! I hope momma decides she wants to look after her baby again when her heat finishes.  (Unless you want to keep her as a bottle baby of course.  )


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