# Possible hoof rot. Need advice



## Hippie hollow (Jun 14, 2018)

My 4 1/2 year-old Boer goat has been limping last 1 1/2 days. She’s pretty calm and is not like my younger goats as far as jumping on things in running around like a nut So I know she didn’t hurt herself and I felt up and down her leg and her leg is fine. We’ve had about 15 inches of rain in the past three or four weeks which for this area can cause some problems. I’m suspecting  hoof Rot. Unfortunately the first chance I have to get help With her is tomorrow afternoon. She’s usually OK with me messing with her but since she is in pain she’s being a little more difficult. She’s 140 pounds and I’m 100 pounds. I’ve never dealt with this before so I don’t even know where to start. Trying to research it and coming up with something different every time


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## Mini Horses (Jun 14, 2018)

I used to train my Boers to a collar....clip them to a fence...lift leg and trim hooves.   You may need to make a chute if she isn't wanting to stand but It may just be that she needs a trim?  could have a burr in the foot?   Foot rot can be treated, not a death sentence.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 14, 2018)

x2

Check in between the toes also. They can get a little raw with all the wet weather.

If possible, get some pics if you are still having trouble.


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## Alibo (Jun 14, 2018)

All the rain of course can lead to bad feet but please do not overlook fescue toxicity. It is something I deal with starting every spring until the end of fall. If you are on a fescue heavy pasture please look into it. On top of hoof rot and sore feet in general it can cause poor weight gain and looong tough pregnancies. Also every kid born on my pasture has lost their tail tip to necrosis. We are finally on a cattle fescue balancing mineral and starting to see improvements.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 14, 2018)

Alibo said:


> Also every kid born on my pasture has lost their tail tip to necrosis


I know about fescue toxicity but have never heard of the above. Could you explain further? Pics if possible. This is very interesting and would definitely like to know more about this tail thing.


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 14, 2018)

Yes I’ve been reading up on the ways to identify and treat it. I seem to get mixed results though. And I do fret over my goats more than I need to sometimes. She will still get up in the morning and hobble to her food but just kind of wants to lay around after that. In the afternoon when I let them out to hang out in the yard she will go out in forage with the others but takes a lot more rest then she did before and I can tell she’s definitely in pain. I just Want to make sure she will be OK till then. Is there anything I can give her for pain in the meantime and while she heals


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 14, 2018)

We have one area of heavy pasture but their usually not in the because they rather eat the brush and trees 


Alibo said:


> All the rain of course can lead to bad feet but please do not overlook fescue toxicity. It is something I deal with starting every spring until the end of fall. If you are on a fescue heavy pasture please look into it. On top of hoof rot and sore feet in general it can cause poor weight gain and looong tough pregnancies. Also every kid born on my pasture has lost their tail tip to necrosis. We are finally on a cattle fescue balancing mineral and starting to see improvements.


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 14, 2018)

I should be in a better service area soon and I will post some pictures. Unfortunately you can’t see much through the pictures because her hooves Have dirt on them from all this wet ground we’ve been having. Can’t tell you the last time it was dry where I live. I set up wooden walkways and things throughout the run but of course they don’t always use them and they’re only in the run half the day the other half there hang in throughout the property


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## greybeard (Jun 14, 2018)

Tail necrosis due to fescue endophyte is well known in the cattle industry.
Other areas affected can be ear tips and of course the hoof.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...rgot_alkaloid_poisoning_in_weaned_beef_calves

https://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/ansci/beefreports/asl1766.pdf

It's usually just the tail switch that rots off.

The ergot trouble can come from several different plants too. Rye and Brome for instance.

Current discussion on one of the cattle boards regarding this:

https://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=115291


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## Southern by choice (Jun 14, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Tail necrosis due to fescue endophyte is well known in the cattle industry.
> Other areas affected can be ear tips and of course the hoof.
> 
> https://www.researchgate.net/public...rgot_alkaloid_poisoning_in_weaned_beef_calves
> ...


Wow! Thank you so much. This is very interesting.  I skimmed the info but will go back and thoroughly read.  I have a friend that is having some real "skin" issues. No vet can figure out what it is. Looks similar to some of the pics. I will forward this info perhaps there may be some answers.


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 14, 2018)

I feel terrible that hoof  inspections have fallen short lately. Between their shelter flooding and repairing the roof so that doesn’t happen again trees falling on their fence during the storm. Portions of our yard flooding and running around scrambling trying to figure out how to get everybody water when our power was out way longer Then we expected. On some of their platforms and play areas we have put down shingles and have concrete pavers and gravel and things for them to walk on which keeps their hooves  then we expected. On some of their platforms and play areas we have put down shingles and have concrete pavers and gravel and things for them to walk on which keeps their hooves shade down and we rarely have to clip them   We stay on top of checking on them but always looked good until we got all this rain


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 14, 2018)

I will post another picture tomorrow after my husband is there to help me. I’ll send a picture of them cleaned up. After the picture I tried to clean them up a little bit but she wanted no part of me touching them. She usually doesn’t have an issue with that but I guess cause she’s in pain she didn’t want me messing with it. And I was on my own So it was hard to restrain 140 pound goat and clean her hooves


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## greybeard (Jun 15, 2018)

Ergot has a strange place in our history. I saw a'podcast' (as they called it) on an NPR program where researchers believe the erratic behavior that resulted in the Salem Witch trials was caused by ergot on cereal rye. Some types of ergot cause hallucinations and the fungus is bad in wet times, where as other strains show up once it is hot and dry. It was a very wet year in New England in 1692 and the most common grain was rye. The program postulated that the supposed 'witches' had been afflicted with fits and hallucinations by infected rye. The following 2 years, the climate was very dry and no more 'witches' showed up. 

Fescue is still a dirty word in my part of the state tho I know from talking to farmers in Va and Mo that it is an excellent forage when managed right, but my neighbors would probably gather at a windmill with torches and pitchforks if I were to ever try to grow any here.  Seeing more and more of it sold tho, as a lawn grass to take the place of native Bahia, which homeowners don't like because it sends up tall stems with black immature seed heads on it even before the leafy part of the plant really gets going good. You can mow on a Monday and around Friday, your yard looks awful because of all the tall black stems sticking up 10-12" above the leafy part. 
Oddly enough, those black immature seedheads do somewhat resemble the beginning of ergot fungus..


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## Mini Horses (Jun 15, 2018)

Here in VA the most sold Kenturcky 31 variety is NOT for horses!!!  Or other livestock, for that matter.  There are endophyte free fescue varieties.   The issues with pregnant horses are horrid.  Lack of milk, long gestations, foals too large to deliver, if they deliver often are "dummies", on and on.

There was/is a product, domperidone, developed to help clear the system of the chemical from the endophyte and counter many of the pregnancy issues.   Suggested to begin some 3 months prior to delivery, completely remove mares from the grass -- AND fescue hay -- among other things.


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## Alibo (Jun 15, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> I know about fescue toxicity but have never heard of the above. Could you explain further? Pics if possible. This is very interesting and would definitely like to know more about this tail thing.



Greybeard beat me to it! I have poured over those sites and others before getting an official diagnosis. My vet had never seen a severe case like that in goats before but glad to be on the right track now. Unfortunately I do not have any pictures but it looked like someone had banded all of the tail tips of my kids. They would fall off within weeks of each other by their second spring.  I did not know how to fix it and the vet (doesn't treat cows) did not know what to think either. They now look permanently "fish tailed"

As to your problem Hippie hollow you might try soaking her foot in Epsom salt and then dusting with garlic powder. We have 2 feet of mud whenever it rains and a heavy dusting of garlic powder seems to do the trick when anyone is looking thrushy


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## Alibo (Jun 15, 2018)

Lol,  realizing from your posts she might not let you _soak_ her foot. You can soak a pad of gauze, apply to the foot, wrap with cellophane and then horse wrap for a couple hours. Sounds like you will need a helper though. Hope she heals quickly!


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## Donna R. Raybon (Jun 15, 2018)

Alibo said:


> All the rain of course can lead to bad feet but please do not overlook fescue toxicity. It is something I deal with starting every spring until the end of fall. If you are on a fescue heavy pasture please look into it. On top of hoof rot and sore feet in general it can cause poor weight gain and looong tough pregnancies. Also every kid born on my pasture has lost their tail tip to necrosis. We are finally on a cattle fescue balancing mineral and starting to see improvements.




Yes, the mineral mix works.  Our mixes all have it in them.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Jun 15, 2018)

Foot rot is different from foot scald.  What you describe after heavy rains sounds like foot scald.  When you check between toes you will see raw skin and it smells funky.  
What I do is clean with paper towels, and then use Koppertox (wear nitrile gloves btw as both scald and koppertox stink!!) It just takes a few drops to coat the skin between the toes well.  Usually, one treatment does the trick with the Koppertox.  The bacteria that cause foot scald lives in soil for about two weeks.  So, in theory if you can get all your goats treated/clear you can eliminate it.  Easier said than done, though.  

Also, hydrogen peroxide works, but you have to treat every day until it clears up.  Bleach works, but they will sling it all over you and spot your clothes.  

Avoid anything with formaldehyde as it super hardens hoof and makes more troubles done the way.  I don't think it is available much anymore due to toxicity and a known carcinogen.  

New Zealand foot bath worrks, too.  It is zinc sulfate, water and soap.  If you mix it up from scratch make sure to use warm water, add the soap and then slowly stir in the zinc as it is sort of hard to get to dissolve.  I think the brand name 'Hoof n' Heal' is this mixture.  BTW works well on fingernail and toenail fungus in humans, too.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 15, 2018)

We have never had luck with koppertox but the Naylor hoof and heal has been great it is zinc based. Works incredibly fast. 
This year with months and months of rain some of our does suffered some hoof issues.  We literally had a tractor come in and scrape mud away from the heavy travel paths. The barn was dry and the fields had good ground cover - it was the areas between the barn and field and all the major travel routs that became a horrid mess. We even have drainage grit and that wasn't enough. The mud was horrid this year.

Severe issues can be treated by a process they use on horses and cattle but you must have some type of dry lot etc to put the goat in.
Clean and trim hoof.
Topically use LA 200 if you can find powder form apply that as well. Usually only the vets can get the powder form.  Wrap in gauze then in vet wrap. Not too tight!
The goat will look like a racehorse. 
Reapply dressings and treatment every other day. In 10 days you will have beautiful hooves.


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 15, 2018)

Hoof and heel was the only thing i could find at our feed store.  Now I have one of my younger one starting to limp a bit. I ha to work day and night shift yesterday got off at 7 this morning so just woke up. Husband says co worker said it would be too painful to trim right now. We are going out now to check exactly what I is


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 15, 2018)

What is vet wrap. I have something that I used on the chickens but don’t know if it’s tough enough for a girl  Is it different than a wrap we woul use on our selves?  Should I treat with hoof and heel for a bit before trimming she’s in good pain. Sorry all the questions but we’ve never had hoof problems and I need to leave town for a few days tomorrow afternoon and leaving it in my husbands hands. I can tell she’s in pain. She’s a tough girl... she’s still determined to get around on her own. Just very slow. Anything I can give for pain in meantime?


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## Southern by choice (Jun 15, 2018)

First I would restrain her as best you can. Take a bucket of very warm water with a few drops of bleach, a rag, and a brush. Soak one foot at a time while you rub the dirt off the hoof, get between the toes, using the brush if necessary. You will probably need to change the water for each hoof.
Once you can see clearly  it will allow you to see any hoof wall separation or if something is stuck in the hoof etc.
Trim if necessary.

Treat the foot if needed.

Is the tenderness on all feet? One foot?  Do you have laminitis?

http://kinne.net/laminit.htm

Vet wrap- you can get this at any pharmacy. or walmart or TSC...
https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail...POGOt5Jeza_nWg6NZTvShFZlTC3qdd7IaAn0-EALw_wcB


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 15, 2018)

Just one foot. She’s still getting around... slowly. She’s a tough girl   What is laminitis?


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 15, 2018)

I’m going to try to treat them all to be safe. I only have 4


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 15, 2018)

Ok first felt inside. Ran my fingers and even paper towel through there and no smell. Her hooves are thick so paper towel got in there better. No smell or moisture or mud.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 15, 2018)

Hippie hollow said:


> Just one foot. She’s still getting around... slowly. She’s a tough girl   What is laminitis?


link attached above


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## Southern by choice (Jun 15, 2018)

I wonder if you have an injury to the foot.


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 15, 2018)

Ok. Got it washed up and partially clipped... need to get better clippers first thing in the morning. But got some clipped. Can’t see any injuries. Needed some clipping. She pulled away at first but once I got her she was just fine while I worked with it. I didn’t seem to cause her any pain while brushed In the middle got deep. Eventually got impatient which I understand. She worked with me well for a good while. No redness or fluid or smell. But not pain when touching it. So now I’m real confused


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## Southern by choice (Jun 15, 2018)

Did you look at the link? Sometiimes you can have an injury in one of the bones. A hairline fracture or whatever. 
Has your vet given or suggested Banamine?


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 15, 2018)

My vet retired 2 yrs ago unfortunately. And I’m having really hard time finding another vet in this area  I did look at the link and interesting stuff. Thank you. I’m not gonna rule it out but symptoms seem to be pain to touch and hot. She doesn’t have either. Those seem to be symptoms for almost all hoof problems I was looking at. When I felt down her leg when I first saw her limping there was no pain or injury. Maybe where the 2 meet. It’s just strange. Looking more at it tomorrow


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## Donna R. Raybon (Jun 15, 2018)

If it is foot rot, you do have to trim feet back to healthy tissue.  But, my experience  has been that when the go lame as you describe it is almost always foot scald between the toes.  Yeah, NC got pounded with rain this year!!!  We got more than our due here, too, but not near as much as NC.


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## MatthewsHomestead (Jun 16, 2018)

Donna R. Raybon said:


> If it is foot rot, you do have to trim feet back to healthy tissue.  But, my experience  has been that when the go lame as you describe it is almost always foot scald between the toes.  Yeah, NC got pounded with rain this year!!!  We got more than our due here, too, but not near as much as NC.


Amen! Thank goodness my two have a nice dry barn to hole up in during it all. At least it drowned out our not so friendly neighborhood rats though!


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## greybeard (Jun 16, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> The barn was dry and the fields had good ground cover - it was the areas between the barn and field and all the major travel routs that became a horrid mess. We even have drainage grit and that wasn't enough. The mud was horrid this year.


I have had years like that myself, and have had to go in and install more gates just to give more pathways for the animals and my own rolling stock.
Dunno how other livestock do in small places, (100 acres or less) but cattle are animals of habit and will walk the exact same path over and over except while actively ambling around grazing.  For cattle a well structured animal will lift his front hoof and step forward and then the rear hoof will set down in the exact same spot the front hoof just vacated, meaning the ground gets compacted, and before you know it, that trailway is not just devoid of grass, it is an indentation in the ground several inches deep X about 16" wide. Doesn't matter, rain or shine, they walk that same path, and when it rains, that path holds water, which turns to mud as they steadily trod along, getting deeper each time it's stepped in. Gateway openings are worse. Because they often all try to squeeze thru at the same time, again depressing the ground rain or shine and it turns into a quagmire.
You can see those pathways in this most recent google earth picture of part of my place and even see 4 of them lined up following the same little path. At the bottom, the paths all converge on a gate opening into the woods and that opening is a mud hole in wet weather.
(you may have to 'click to enlarge' to get a better detailed view)


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## LndSchneid (Jun 20, 2018)

Hippie hollow said:


> My 4 1/2 year-old Boer goat has been limping last 1 1/2 days. She’s pretty calm and is not like my younger goats as far as jumping on things in running around like a nut So I know she didn’t hurt herself and I felt up and down her leg and her leg is fine. We’ve had about 15 inches of rain in the past three or four weeks which for this area can cause some problems. I’m suspecting  hoof Rot. Unfortunately the first chance I have to get help With her is tomorrow afternoon. She’s usually OK with me messing with her but since she is in pain she’s being a little more difficult. She’s 140 pounds and I’m 100 pounds. I’ve never dealt with this before so I don’t even know where to start. Trying to research it and coming up with something different every time


Some of my sheep and goats always get hoof rot right after a rain.  I make a mixture of pine tar and zinc sulfate with warm water, if need be I put it in an old rubber boot and just stick their leg in it as quickly as I can. It's best if I can hold it for 60 seconds but if not I still find this stuff remedies them right away.  If they're a little too fussy I just pour it right over the top of the foot knowing that it kind of sinks around.


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## Daxigait (Jun 20, 2018)

I used to use the expensive stuff but coppertox is gotten really high so instead now I wash it out with bleachto get a clear picture, then sometimes I'll do a second thing and treated with chlorhexidine but it needs the bleach first. Then I dump Wonder dust on it. Works like a charm.


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## goatboy1973 (Jun 20, 2018)

Hippie hollow said:


> My 4 1/2 year-old Boer goat has been limping last 1 1/2 days. She’s pretty calm and is not like my younger goats as far as jumping on things in running around like a nut So I know she didn’t hurt herself and I felt up and down her leg and her leg is fine. We’ve had about 15 inches of rain in the past three or four weeks which for this area can cause some problems. I’m suspecting  hoof Rot. Unfortunately the first chance I have to get help With her is tomorrow afternoon. She’s usually OK with me messing with her but since she is in pain she’s being a little more difficult. She’s 140 pounds and I’m 100 pounds. I’ve never dealt with this before so I don’t even know where to start. Trying to research it and coming up with something different every time


I use oxytetracycline (LA 200) off label for my goats. I 1st restrain the goat whether it is a headgate or you can use a milking stantion, or hog tie the goat etc. Whatever the restraint method you need to be up close and personal and eye level with the hoof. The next order of biz is to inspect the hoof before anything is done to it and look for DPPTLS...Deformities, Punctures, Penetrations, Tenderness, Lacerations, and Swelling. Then thoroughly clean the hoof with a hoof pick and a small brush. Next you are going to clean the hoof with a good 75%/ 25% Betadine/ rubbing alcohol mix with a couple tsp of the blue Dawn® dishwashing liquid and scrub the hoof thoroughly and rinse thoroughly with water and completely dry the hoof. Finally, I give an IM injection of LA 200 at a dosage of 4.5 ml per 100 lbs. I have done it this way for over 18 years and have always had great results. There is also a vaccine you can give that targets the specific bacteria that causes the hoof rot but unless you culture the hoof wound you won't know if this will work or not. Wet environments will produce a reoccurring infection so putting them back in the same environment isn't recommended. This is what works for me and my goats...you may find a better solution. Hope this helps out.


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## Girlies' Mum (Jul 7, 2018)

goatboy1973 said:


> I use oxytetracycline (LA 200) off label for my goats. I 1st restrain the goat whether it is a headgate or you can use a milking stantion, or hog tie the goat etc. Whatever the restraint method you need to be up close and personal and eye level with the hoof. The next order of biz is to inspect the hoof before anything is done to it and look for DPPTLS...Deformities, Punctures, Penetrations, Tenderness, Lacerations, and Swelling. Then thoroughly clean the hoof with a hoof pick and a small brush. Next you are going to clean the hoof with a good 75%/ 25% Betadine/ rubbing alcohol mix with a couple tsp of the blue Dawn® dishwashing liquid and scrub the hoof thoroughly and rinse thoroughly with water and completely dry the hoof. Finally, I give an IM injection of LA 200 at a dosage of 4.5 ml per 100 lbs. I have done it this way for over 18 years and have always had great results. There is also a vaccine you can give that targets the specific bacteria that causes the hoof rot but unless you culture the hoof wound you won't know if this will work or not. Wet environments will produce a reoccurring infection so putting them back in the same environment isn't recommended. This is what works for me and my goats...you may find a better solution. Hope this helps out.



I agree with goat boy from  a sheep perspective though he has lots more experience than I do I am sure! Here in the UK where it is not renowned for its dry climate i.e. is pretty much permanently muddy, we see loads of foot scald and less (but still commonly) foot rot. They are 2 different things - foot rot is much more extensive and smells unforgettably revolting, scald is usually redness etc down in the cleft of the hoof, can be difficult to see, needs good cleaning. For foot rot we would cut back all the affected tissue (and it may be a horrific lot) and give IM oxytetracycline (long acting) and SC metacam if available for pain and oxytetracycline spray to the foot (area should be kept dry). If picked up fairly quickly and it wasn't too nasty (i.e. the usual case)  in scald we would clean and treat with oxytetracycline spray alone and try to keep the foot dry for at least an hour or 2. However, vital to exclude other things first as @Goatboy says (don't know about goats but sheep get stones which can be really tight and sharp in their feet especially if muddy and a great quick fix). Bad scald I would treat as foot rot. My beloved 100kg sheep got bad limping earlier this year and was clearly in a lot of pain. I have your problem as I weigh 50kg, so all in all I got the farm animal vet out who could only find a small tender area, which didn't really account for anything. She gave IM oxytetracycline and metacam and I repeated the metacam till she was better and she was great after 4 days..... never did find out the cause. The foot rot vaccine is used quite a lot here commercially, but I only have 4 little darlings, so I sincerely would hope i would pick up any foot rot before it was serious. Good luck. hopefully your goat is better now.


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