# at my wits end.... don't know what to do!



## apdan (May 25, 2010)

okay.... I will start from the beginning and if anyone has any advice on what they would do I would greatly greatly appreciate it!

About a year and half ago my mare missy put her foot thru her tin lean-to. She cut her back foot right at the joint, we got it all cleaned up and the proud flesh is gone and made it thru the winter keeping it wrapped with no frost bite! BUT anytime it starts to heal over with new skin she somehow busts it back open and then it will swell up and it's like starting all over from day one just not as bad. the first day she cut it almost to the bone.. and now it's just a matter of getting it to seal over. NOW she has a new cut on the same leg, just above the knee on the inside!!!!! We got a new horse on saturday and he went to kick my other mare and nailed her instead. So we have her seperated again but we don't have anywhere to confine her to a stall. we have tried what the vet has told us to do (we have seen him twice since this all started, and other vets), we have used a oatmeal poultice, epsom salt soaks and wrapping it........ and we have tried these for months on end, not just a couple weeks and see no improvement and give up... this is a month after month after month thing. I am thinking of trying schreiners herbal spray BUT I don't know anymore what to do! we don't even know if we will ever be able to ride her again which is sooo sad! So any advice or opinions on how to heal her would be great! Sorry about writing a book, if I would have found this site earlier I would have been posting!!!! and adivce on healing both cuts (new and old) would be appreciated


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## freemotion (May 25, 2010)

First order of business is to determine how she keeps cutting herself.  Is she getting picked on by the others?  Fighting flies?  Are there obstacles in her area like branches, stumps, loose fencing, etc?  If there is something with which a horse can manage to injure themselves on, they will find it!

It is always a good idea to introduce new horses to the herd with a solid fence in between them until they behave themselves over the fence.  Then introduce them carefully, when they are tired, and only under direct supervision for a while.  One well-placed kick can be the end of a good horse.

Are you saying that the original injury, a year and a half ago, is still not healed?  If so, yikes!  Sorry, got nothing for you.  Just a


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## mully (May 25, 2010)

I would put a wrap on the ares and use peroxide to soak the wrap 3 times a day for about 3 days.  After 3 days remove the wrap and I would let it dry for 3-4hours. Then put pine tar on the area, not thick but a nice even coat.  Apply the pine tar twice a day for several weeks.  This has worked for me on "bad" wounds. God Bless and best of luck !!


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## apdan (May 25, 2010)

well as far as the old wound, she dosen't keep cutting it. It keeps breaking back open. It's like as if you cut your finger and pick the scab. Somehow she keeps picking her scab  that's the best I can describe it. It's about an inch wide and goes from one side of her leg to the other right across the front of her fetlock. 
and then the horse that we got on saturday is kinda new.... he's new to our house but not new to my mares. we are just keeping him and riding him for the summer cause his owner a friend is going to be gone out of the country for the summer. So... he's new but he's not new. we are using him because we can't use our missy!
Yes the original injury on her fetlock is from a year and half ago! YIKES IS RIGHT  it's soo frustrating and has brought a good many nights of tears... we have owned her for about 4 yrs now and her and my mare are a good match so it sucks and she is such an awesome horse.


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## LauraM (May 25, 2010)

Could you post a picture?


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## michickenwrangler (May 25, 2010)

Was the original cut stitched or just left to heal on its own?

Can you rig up a portable corral with a garden charger, step-in posts and the wide plastic fencing tape? I do that for when I go camping with my horse. A 12 x 12 area would be adequate to restrict movement and still allow her to lay down if needed.

Other than that ...    Maybe try something astringent to help draw tissues together like witch hazel or oak tannins.


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## adoptedbyachicken (May 26, 2010)

To me this is the down side of wrapping wounds.  They don't heal with the type of tissue that can take the work so when you quit wrapping it breaks back open.   Having said that a cut to the bone will have to begin wrapped but I'd ditch the wrap really soon.  You need for this to heal from the inside out, what you have done before is healed the outside and not in.  

No doubt she has scar tissue there now that will prevent any type of wound closure anyway so I'd suggest healing it open this time.  Keep it clean and dry as possible and let nature heal it.  Portable fencing is a great idea, you can keep her safe, separate and keep moving her to a clean area that would be great.

There are many products out there that are for open wound healing.  I love Karaplex but it's only sold in Canada.  Look around your area or ask your Vet.


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## apdan (May 27, 2010)

I don't have any way to post a picture. my baby goat that was raised in the house decided to chew my laptop power cord so all I have is my blackberry and my work computer.  he's a monster  She is in a different pasture and is doing better over there, I am putting furazone on it and wrapping it to get the infection back out of it, it swelled back up when she cut open the top of her leg so I have been putting that on both so I can draw out the infection.  Then I guess I will go from there and try all the ideas you guys have suggested! Thank you so much for all the input!


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## LauraM (May 27, 2010)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> Other than that ...    Maybe try something astringent to help draw tissues together like witch hazel or oak tannins.


I agree.  I suggest using scarlet oil.


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## currycomb (Jun 15, 2010)

ditto on the scarlet oil, spray it on, leave it open to air. that will keep flies out, seems to prevent proud flesh, but keep wound flexable and helps heal


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## apdan (Jul 15, 2010)

This a picture from my phone taken this morning...... the red is scarlet oil and yes this is still the original injury from a year and half ago...  
we are still hoping and praying that we will be able to still ride her if we can get her healed  ... and even if we can't and she is just a pasture pet, she will still be staying at the house!

I will have to post better pictures this weekend... finally got a new computer cord!


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## michickenwrangler (Jul 15, 2010)

Have you thought about contacting Michigan State University?

I have no more advice to give.


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## apdan (Jul 15, 2010)

well at this point we are just trudging along with her  she isn't in any pain, and we have come to face the fact that we may never be able to ride her again. It just gets frustrating because she gets soooo close and then one day it's open again.... Anyways just thought I would post a picture finally!

Thank you to everyone for all the help as well! I truly appreciate it!


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## jmhappycowboy (Jul 15, 2010)

First thought is in the location where the wound is. Is your mare biting at the wound? A lot of times when a wound starts healing it itches and they will knaw it, this could be the cause of it not healing.

Also This is a old home remedy that it really works for me, I have treated some cuts much worse than that with this and they healed just fine. 

Take some (Pickling lime) you can find it in any grocery store I usually get mine at Walmart. And then I always use (Nitrofurazone) which is a salve for animals. You can do this 2 ways ,coat the wound with nitrofurazone and then apply a liberal dusting of the pickling lime on top of the salve.

Or you can take out 2 or 3 globs of the nitrofurazone and put in another container and mix some of the pickling lime with the salve, I usually add about 2 or 3 tablespoons of pickling lime. Salve will turn red when mixed.

This has done a great job for me, the pickling lime will also prevent proud flesh and if already there will help in taking it off.


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## ducks4you (Jul 16, 2010)

I have never heard of this--I have to treat a rope burn that my 4 yr old QH got the other day, and I'll try this.
_BTW, my Vet told me to be cauful of too much skin contact exposure to Nitrofuricin (for humans.)  There is some toxicity.  She suggested gloves._


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## patandchickens (Jul 16, 2010)

I would second trying to take her to MSU or some other large clinic like that, and having VERY GOOD xrays done. A wound repeatedly breaking open like that is not-infrequently a sign of either a) foreign object still trapped in wound, or b) infection in the bone or other deep tissues, that has to be removed or cured before total healing will take place.

Best of luck,

Pat


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## w c (Aug 28, 2010)

Um.  

I feel really bad for you as well as for the horse.  You have really tried.

I would disagree with the assumption that the animal is not in pain.  Proud flesh can be extremely painful.  It is full of blood vessels and nerves and can generate immense pain from the slightest touch or bump.  Animals often do not show pain openly as they have an instinct to do so, to avoid the notice of predators.  It's not always possible to gauge pain by looking at the animal.

Please do not ask on the internet bulletin boards for home remedies for this one, and please no tar, lime, peroxide, oatmeal, scarlet oil, furacin or other remedies and no poultices, because it is unknown at this point what structures are affected, how deep it goes or exactly what is going on in there.  Until that is known, any treatment can be the wrong treatment.  

This should be evaluated very soon by a really top notch veterinary surgeon and follow his/her recommendations very, very closely.  This needs to go to a veterinary clinic, MSU if near is a good choice.  

It appears it has a ton of proud flesh.  There may also be insect larva in the wound.  THat can happen and cause a great deal of proud flesh.  A scarcoid tumor can also develop in such wounds.  This is why it needs to be seen, asap.

There may be something still in the wound that is preventing healing, but also some of the treatments probably irritated the tissues for it to get this huge and to not heal.  Many traditional treatments for wounds are very caustic and encourage proud flesh, but are still eagerly recommended.   Many traditional poultices have lengthy tradition behind them, and do nothing except prevent wounds like this from healing.  The treatment of horse wounds traditionally relied on substances that were believed to 'draw' the infection out of the wound.  

Ichthammol, for example, is aluminum bituminosulfate.  It is made from processing oil shale, and is sulfonated shale oil, so has similarities with coal tar shampoos.  It contains sulfur and alkaloid salts, and it has some mild anti-inflammatory effects, some claim even, antibiotic effects.  Is that what you want for THIS wound?  Not at all clear, not at this point in time anyway.  It is a traditional medicine.  A few studies have been done on how effective it is for human eczema(effective for mild to moderate eczema), whether it helps human leg vein ulcers heal better or not(reduced size of ulcer some but did not help in overall healing, another study found mild success).  

I for one, doubt that 'drawing salves' do many of the things traditionally claimed (draw gravel out from under the skin, cure any sort of bacterial infection).  Even so, I've used them, they seem to reduce inflammation.  But sometimes, inflammation is what you WANT.  And anti-inflammatories can in fact, PREVENT certain actions and types of healing.  My surgeon absolutely forbade them before or after a surgery.  Why?  "You won't heal".

Because it works in some situations, doesn't make it the sole or best treatment for this.  

Depending on the wound, bandaging may be needed.  Used correctly in the right situation, bandages, wraps or whatever a person calls them, can be very, very effective, even indispensable.

If the wraps are applied and changed appropriately they can be very effective.  They can make the difference between healing and not healing of certain wounds.  

Furacin is not appropriate for all wounds.  Furacin can be very irritating itself and encourage proud flesh.  It can attract dirt and grit and irritate a wound.  

Dislike of wraps is mostly based on observation of other's poor results due to incorrect materials, techniques and time between changing bandages, or the horse is in a wet or dirty environment and the bandages become contaminated with dirt, manure, wet bedding, etc.  

I am not sure if the original wound is really re-opening 'like picking a scab' or if it is actually the proud flesh that keeps bleeding, I can't quite make out detail from the picture.  Proud flesh is very abnormal tissue with too many blood vessels and bleeds at the drop of a hat.  Proud flesh grows when a wound is irritated.  

If the wound has not damaged tendons and ligaments and bones and joints it may be salvageable.  Sometimes wounds like this after long periods of time can be surprisingly fixed with the help of an expert veterinary and very dilgent following of their recommendations.  

If I had to guess, I would guess that to get it closed and healed and preserve function, the wound will at this point require surgery (which perhaps could be done at your home with the horse standing and sedated and given pain killers).  What I see, I think is proud flesh, that will have to be removed in order to get the wound closed.  

I can't really see enough detail in the picture to even guess what structures are involved, how deep it goes, and what the outcome would be if a veterinary were not involved and diligently followed.  

If the wound will not close, there is constant risk to the leg.  Without intact skin, infection can dig in and lodge in the joint, tendons, etc and destroy those structures.  Then the animal literally does not have a leg to stand on.  Strain put on other legs can cause founder or break down of those legs, or the infection can go system wide and kill the animal.

 The ideal goal would be to ultimately get rid of as much proud flesh as possible, get the wound to close, and to retain as much normal function of the joints and tendons, as possible, so the animal has motion in the joint and is hopefully nearly pain free.  It is not always possible to remove all the scar tissue or bring the leg back to a completely normal appearance or function, but often a surprising amount can be done.  

For many serious injuries near a joint, initially, we often need stalls, a lot of continuous confinement and separation from other animals.  Injuries on a leg on a joint can be very challenging to treat.  Sometimes if we don't have the facilities at home the animal has to be boarded - though not every boarding barn really is set up properly for treatment or recovery from injuries.


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## pawtraitart (Oct 7, 2010)

I have treated all kinds of equine wounds. What I like the best is a 3 step product called MATRIX. 

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16435

I've seen deep injuries all the way to the bone, de-gloving, bites, cuts, and one almost identical to the one on your horse. I NEVER use peroxide on it after the first initial flushing because it attacks healthy material. I like the Matrix product because you won't see the proud flesh with it. The wound will heal over and the hair will grow back. I'd have a vet look at it, though. I can't tell from the photo how deep the wound is or the exact nature of the flesh around it. 

I've also used thick organic honey for wounds that benefit from active drainage. The honey keeps the wound sterile and draws the dead tissue out. Bandages are changed daily.


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