# Arabian horses / New pic



## Naef hajaya (Aug 29, 2010)




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## ducks4you (Sep 3, 2010)

**sigh** I gotta have another Arab.
_Corporal will understand._


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## goodhors (Sep 3, 2010)

I think those are all American Arabs, not horses from the Middle East.  Photos are just "styled" like show photos used in stallion advertising.

I like Arabs, just want them watered down a bit, Half or quarter Arab.  Gives the toughness, but not the over-reactive portion of many Pures seen now.


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## patandchickens (Sep 3, 2010)

Although, I am wondering if there are professional photographers out there who would get understandably testy if this represents their work being stolen and propagated uncredited/unpaid on the internet...

*Hopefully* this is all with permission, just sayin',

Pat


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## w c (Sep 3, 2010)

My friend took me on a trail ride and put me on one of her Arabians.  They hadn't been worked in over a month.  

The ride was interesting.  We spent much of the ride time, trying to get her horse to leave the barnyard.  

He didn't wanna, was the gist of it.

I had to take dramamine, I was spinning around so much.  Oh!  A dixie cup!  Oh!  A person!  Run!  Run away!  No - let's just SPIN!!!! WEEEEEE!!!!

At one point there was a PERSON (Oh!) walking on a trail that was on the hill a little above where we were, and he kicked a LEAF that then proceeded to TUMBLE DOWN THE HILL and my friend's horse was much more of a dervish about it than mine was.

A little like that talking dog Doug in the movie 'UP'.  'And I....SQUIRREL!'

That said, I'd be in the next county if I got on one of mine after not working them for a month, but at least I'd get there in a straight line.

Another thing I've noticed about them, while most of them are basically pets and not working very hard, they seem to live a long, long time.  I've heard more than one middle aged lady brag, 'I grew up with this horse!'  YOU DID?  But you must be like...(time to not say any more).

And twenty five, twenty six, that's not at all an unusual age and the animal is still active, maybe a little arthritic, but doing very, very well overall.

And a friend of mine did indeed have a Russian Arab that was the most spookless thing I've ever seen.  When he was three.  He was also a little, what they call, 'hard sided'.

I was given one to ride, that for some reason, every time you asked him to canter on either lead, he would FLING his head to the outside and nearly brain himself on the fence.  I was like, 'why are you doing that, fella?'  Turns out his rider would turn his head to the outside every time she asked him to canter, sort of REALLY turn his head to the outside.  The animal was a neurotic mess.  Every time you acted like you might touch the reins he would spook, throw his head to the outside and rush off in a sideways galloping mess.

And because of other experiences, I can hazard a guess that a lot of Arabs, don't seem to get the best training so if they are not perhaps behaving too rationally that might be part of the problem.  

They can attract very novice owners who think they don't need lessons.  I think that's one reason you see some of them acting so terribly spoiled.  There was a video on youtube for a long time of a trainer retraining an Arab, and it was like spinning, refusing to go to one end of the ring, spooking like mad, rearing, bucking, all kind of AT THE SAME TIME.  As my friend said watching it, 'amazingly athletic, aren't they?'  But I think you take a sensitive, busy kind of pushy type of horse and give him to someone that is a novice, and 'there you go', as they say.  

I think if you see a horse spooking the 1000th time he goes past the mounting block in the arena, you can start to think, 'GOSH!  I wonder if he's not afraid of it, and somethin' else is going on!'  Yup, could be!  Bad training and bad riding.

I think that's the mystique of the pretty appearance and the dainty head and high set pretty tail, it can attract a certain audience.  I don't think you can 100% blame the breed for a lot of that.  

A friend of mine had a really nice little Arab that did endurance and dressage, though he had a hard time keeping the two straight.  Finally he just started warming the horse up by cantering for about an hour before dressage, and he started getting good tests out of him.  

*Still got judges making comments on his test like 'A LITTLE TENSE' with 'tense' underlined six times.*

He also did hunter paces and hunt races on him.  That little horse would flatten down to the ground and run like a bug on fire, then slam on the brakes in front of the fence, bounce over it with his head in the air, then flatten out again and fly.  I watched him try to go around a corner once on a cross country horse, he was yelling, 'Come on boy, over there!'  That was a real wide corner.  There was no stopping that horse when his blood was up.  He'd be over through or under but he'd be on the other side of it.

I sat in the tack shop a while ago and listened to a person yell and carry on for about forty five minutes about how the Arab has gone to HECK in the last few years, the halter people are RUINING the breed, selecting for TERRIBLE conformation, exaggerated heads and brainless, nutty temperaments.

So I said, 'So....what sort of horse do you breed?'

'Arabs'.

So unless I miss my guess the people complaining the loudest are ...  arab breeders???

and unless memory does not serve (and it very well may not), I heard the same complaint when I was 14, as I did when I was 54, LOL.


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## michickenwrangler (Sep 4, 2010)

Yez all need to ride some endurance and comp  Arabs 

MY Arabs have worked and children can ride them with confidence.


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## w c (Sep 5, 2010)

Egg-xactly.  Agree 100%

The thing is though, I think that difference is from three different factors - 

One, many of the endurance riders simply have a lot of practical experience and ride and train horses rather well.  So I think the endurance horses get a lot better training, on average, I'm sure there are exceptions, but on average.

Two, endurance is, I think, the kind of activity a more energetic, excitable horse can really just simply enjoy.  Because they are going forward in very active gaits, on a long, loose rein.  I think that makes a difference with the rider too.  Going up and down hill, riding on a loose rein, they may develop better balance and have a more 'independent seat and hand'.  I think that helps in riding the more tense, excitable horse.

Three, I think that endurance horses get worked more frequently and when they do get worked, they cover more miles, and I think most of the more sensitive, active type of horses many Arabs are, they simply need to get out and get worked more often or they have a lot of problems with pent up energy, tension, distractions, etc.  

Another place where Arabs tend to do very well in many ways is dressage, that is, when it's a good rider.  While there are a lot of very casual dressage riders, there are quite a few that work very hard at it, in the sense of practicing without stirrups so they can have a very steady light hand, as well as just plain old riding very often, 5-6 days a week year round, so the horse isn't just sitting around getting more and more nervous and pent up.  

I think it's really pretty true of all the more active, tense types of horses...they just can't sit around doing nothing most of the time or be ridden with an unsteady hand.  The rider needs to have the ability to ride in very forward, free, swinging gaits at least part of the time, and have good balance and independent seat and hand.

You know, I meant to ask you something.  When I boarded at an Arab barn, the trainer told me they made every effort NOT to ride the halter horses, ever, because their backs would develop a sway if they were ridden.  Have you ever heard any Arab trainer say that?  I thought it was a fairly amazing thing to say, if nothing else.


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## michickenwrangler (Sep 5, 2010)

It's because they're breeding a lot of them to look like deer. They're breeding with longer backs and thinner bone. If you look at the halter horses from the early 1980s and before compared to now, it's like comparing a bull to a stag.

Bay-Abi and *Bask who both won halter national championships were fairly small, solid horses. Bay-Abi was also fairly heavily muscled for an Arabian. If you look at Padron or Magnum Psyche, they look very delicate and refined compared to the former

When I first began riding Arabs, I rode at a barn that did everything from halter to competitive trail to dressage and arena trail. Some of their horses were even former Arab racehorses. Most of them had Polish breeding and all were sturdy animals.


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## patandchickens (Sep 5, 2010)

I dunno, I've known an awful lot of dead-broke bombproof kid-safe Arabs doing little local hunter shows or just backyard pets or that sort of thing. I do not think it is mainly an issue of ensuring sufficient exercise to burn off excess energy, nor a requirement for skilled riding.

To me the major "arab trait" that really (to me) DOES seem to be fairly consistant across the breed, with relatively few exceptions, is the tendency to raise the head and perk the ears at interesting new observations. Riders who take this as signs of impending doom tend to TURN IT INTO impending doom; riders who just take it as something that arabs often do, but of no particular consequence, tend to have nice calm problem-free rides 

And, I think there is also a strong element of "people just NOTICE arabs that fit their stereotypes and preconceptions, and do NOT notice ones that don't" 

JMHO,

Pat, who deeply loathes the way they are being bred for the ring these days, but who quite likes "normal" arabs even though they are not really optimally suited to the kinds of things I most like to do


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## w c (Sep 5, 2010)

So true, so true.  

My favorite was one that I rode on a wilderness ride in Wyoming in the Wind River range.  What a horse!  What a great feeling to be on such an active, well balanced horse.  

Mich and Pat, I do think there is a very extreme trend these days, not just for light bone and slender backs, but also for very extreme dish to the head.


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## Ariel301 (Sep 5, 2010)

w c said:
			
		

> So true, so true.
> 
> 
> Mich and Pat, I do think there is a very extreme trend these days, not just for light bone and slender backs, but also for very extreme dish to the head.


Indeed. I had a Bask grand-daughter and she hardly looked like an Arab to most people. She was a little more stocky and had less dish to her face. She was also extremely short in the back, it was hard to put a western saddle on her because they would come back onto her hips.

 They are also breeding them to be "hot" because it looks good in the show ring. Watch an Arab halter class lol, especially young stallions--they are jumping and spooking all over the place. That would not be acceptable in most breed shows! I think there is a big difference between Arabs bred and trained for the show ring and Arabs bred and trained for "work". You could never ride one of those show Arabs on trails!


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## michickenwrangler (Sep 6, 2010)

A lot of the "hotness" comes from the trainers!! They spend most of their preliminary time shanking and snapping whips at them (not hitting the horse but just snapping it over their ears) to get them all fired up.

I was very disgusted with a Show Hack class I saw back in 2006. For those that don't know, show hack is almost like "dressage under saddle." You show collected, working and extended versions of all gaits.

When I first began showing in the mid 90's, I showed Show Hack and the winning horses at an extended trot all looked like the "Gifted" Breyer horse. Now they're all just saddleseat horses who speed up! None of the horses in this class could walk, let alone collect and extend because they were jigging so much! In the judge's defense, the horse that jigged least at a walk placed 1st, but no wonder the Arab gets the rep that it does if idiots show horses like these!


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## greeneggsandham (Sep 8, 2010)

My farrier breeds Russian Arabs and boy are they nice horses.  She currently has 8 and two of them are 2 year old stud colts.  Never met more sane and calm arabs than hers.  Her horses get trained from the minute they hit the ground.  By the time they are a year old just about all things that can be done on the ground are.  They have been on numerous trailer rides, stand on cross ties, bath, clip, etc.


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## w c (Sep 9, 2010)

That is super.  The favorite Arabs of mine were all Russian bred.


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## michickenwrangler (Sep 9, 2010)

I'm partial to Polish/Crabbet crosses myself.


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## Eliza (Sep 9, 2010)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> A lot of the "hotness" comes from the trainers!! They spend most of their preliminary time shanking and snapping whips at them (not hitting the horse but just snapping it over their ears) to get them all fired up.
> 
> I was very disgusted with a Show Hack class I saw back in 2006. For those that don't know, show hack is almost like "dressage under saddle." You show collected, working and extended versions of all gaits.
> 
> When I first began showing in the mid 90's, I showed Show Hack and the winning horses at an extended trot all looked like the "Gifted" Breyer horse. Now they're all just saddleseat horses who speed up! None of the horses in this class could walk, let alone collect and extend because they were jigging so much! In the judge's defense, the horse that jigged least at a walk placed 1st, but no wonder the Arab gets the rep that it does if idiots show horses like these!


I'm so glad to see someone of similar mindset!  I spent this past summer showing all the big A shows in the northeast after a 20 year hiatus and all I can say is WOW!  I wondered where all the saddleseat horses went I was sure glad to see they weren't lost.  I found them in the huntseat, and showhack classes.  Now if you want to show "true" huntseat you have to do Sport Horse.  We qualified for Nationals and so we'll go - but I'da know what we'll find there.  I have two arabs - a 26 year old Russian/Polish and a 10 year old CMK Almarah Sea Captain grandson.  He is very differently bred than most horses I see in the Northeast I can tell you...


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## ohne (Sep 9, 2010)

Eliza congratulations on making Nationals. How long will it take for you to make it from the East out to Idaho? We are going to be there, just watching this year. Its only a 2 hour drive for us so not bad at all. What will you be showing??


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## michickenwrangler (Sep 10, 2010)

Eliza said:
			
		

> michickenwrangler said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you qualified for US Nat'ls or Sport Horse?

Heck even if you look at the SHOES horses in huntseat are wearing, that's a giveaway. They're wearing longer, heavier shoes than what they used to. They're overbent, overanimated.

It's amazing that Park classes nowadays are very small ... because they're all in Country and Show Hack! Where they DO NOT belong!


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## Horsiezz (Sep 25, 2010)

See,Im not to educated on the breed, but I ran into some breeders that were lovely people,with excellent horses. They had 3 world champion WESTERN PLEASURE Arabian stallions! So well behaved I could put my niece on them! Now you dont see that very often. But alot of that comes from that they are  quality breeders,highly educated in the breed,and are reputable trainers. They have been doing this business for over 50 years! They were also breeding their Arabs with Paints too. I think theirs were Polish , possibly Russian. They were tall,and muscular,built like Quarter Horses almost but not quite. They were sturdy. We even walked out in the field with them,they were so sane and kind! Then we went into the breeders' arena,where an arabian stallion was. They said he was totally insane. They said that the lady who owns him refuses to geld him,and she sends the BOARD FOR HIM IN THE MAIL! Never coming to see it. One of them started riding it for the lady,and he got thrown and the he charged him and stomped him into the ground breaking his ribs and arm! Before we left he told us if we ever decided to buy an Arabian stay away from straight Egyptians and there was another one but I forget. 
My mom,a very well experienced horsewoman since the age of 6,has always said "I would never have an Arabian even if someone gave it to me." She has always "shunned" the breed,and stuck with her good old American Quarter Horses,a typical farm girl she is  She used to do Endurance Rides(For fun) with my brother in her younger days with their Quarter Horses,and my brothers quarter horse would always blow those arabians away, everyone always said he had close TB blood to run that fast,but my mom always laughed and showed them the papers, saying NOPE. He was a good horse,who only just recently died, he was in his late 20's. R.I.P Cheech.  On the other hand, we recently came across a Craigslist ad if a free Morab gelding. His dam was a morgan mix(we are thinking she is also a morab),and his father was a purebred arabian. He was free. We took him and are currently training him,our focus on reselling him. My mom really likes him,and she said she can no longer say her old saying of she would never own one even if someone gave it to her.  He is 4 yrs old, and hasnt been touched since he was born. Never had his hooves trimmed,never had shots,and only has been wormed once. The people who had him didnt know anything about horses and when they bought his mom she was pregnant and they didnt know. They called the previous owners who had the mare and they told her. Well, when he was born,the wife had a son who was extremely ill and eventually died,so they didnt do anything with him except geld him and that was the end of it really.  When we came to pick him up the people were so scared of him they wouldnt even help us load him. He had to be ran into the trailer with whips! He wasnt even halter broke! But now,he is now under the safe care of us. In just a month he already had his feet trimmed(we drugged him to be safe) You can groom him,give him a bath,hes halter broke, you can load him in the trailer,pick his hooves,lounge him,and we even started riding him! We have him under Western for now,with a bit and bridle,everything! He only bucked once while someone was on him. We have only ridden him in the arena,and he weaves cones,crosses bridges,jumping and just about anything. We set up an obstacle course with pool noodles,tarps,and things like that and he does fine.  He is probably the smartest horse I have ever met. Seriously.  If he didnt take everything in so well,we wouldnt have started him undersaddle already only on a walk and trot. He will be going on his first trail ride within a week. He is also for sale right now for $600 if interested.  hahaha.


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## michickenwrangler (Sep 25, 2010)

They wouldn't do as well in Michigan-comp. 

Most out of state competitive trail riders dread UMECRA competitive rides because we are so fast-paced and we don't have those half hour windows.

I do like to see other breeds compete though.


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## dorothycoughlan (Oct 5, 2010)

w c said:
			
		

> So true, so true.
> 
> My favorite was one that I rode on a wilderness ride in Wyoming in the Wind River range.  What a horse!  What a great feeling to be on such an active, well balanced horse.
> 
> Mich and Pat, I do think there is a very extreme trend these days, not just for light bone and slender backs, but also for very extreme dish to the head.


Wilderness ride is one of our activity in wilderness programs that our camp offered that's why I love horses to. I am an instructor in our camp and I am the one handling the horse back riding with our students, teaching them how to ride a horse properly is the most favorite part of my students.


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## 4-HKid (Jan 8, 2011)

awesome pictures!


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## smoothmule (Jan 9, 2011)

When I bought my SE AK Arabian mare, she gave the impression of being high strung.  She had a history of being difficult and had only had one foal, at age 12, which she totally rejected.

Sounds like what I hear a lot of from people about Arabians.  

Well, I knew how this mare was fed, a lot of grain to try to keep her weight on, alfalfa hay and little else.  I knew she had been sent to a trainers and had been declared to be crazy.  She was well bred, a smallish mare (14 or 14.1 hands).  

The truth:  Brought her home (in foal again..to the same gigantic Friesian stallion she had her first foal by), penned her up a couple of days on good grass hay, salt/minerals with access to my MFT mares and mules who were pastured next to her pen.  Turned her out with no reaction.....None.  That is abnormal.  Typically, if only for a few minutes, the whole herd will sniff, pester, chase then go back to eating when the new of worn off.    Not this mare.  She had never been turned out on pasture to my knowledge.   She sniffed around then went to eating grass.   The "herd" didn't even look up at her and she began grazing quietly and wandered down to the opposite end of the field, almost a quarter mile from the herd.  She was "difficult" to catch but not impossible with a bucket and grain.  She understood that at least.  But I didn't even try for a couple of weeks.  It was winter and I wanted to give her time to learn a little about her new home.  The only way I could describe her was she held her head up a lot, extremely attentive but very controlled and it was as though she was trying to do Exactly as asked but mechanical about it and not "soft" by any stretch of the word.

There was never a a moment that she tried to escape or run the fence.  She watched me but never bolted.  She would walk away, just out of reach when I was out there unless I had a bucket with feed.  I really couldn't feed her out there or the whole herd would have stomped her but I would put the bucket down and lay a lead over her neck and she would stand quietly for the halter and I'd bring her into the barn to feed her after that first couple of weeks.  She didn't get much, more supplements than "feed" and that was only the last 3 months of her pregnancy.  The last 2 months, I penned her up in the barnlot with one of my MFT mares due a few weeks before she was, plus 2 yearling ponies, their sire (my 10.2 hand pony stallion) and a llama I was weaning. 

They all wanted in her face and she "waaas definitely annoyed" (which to me was far better than the aloofness)  but they were unrelenting youngsters dying for a momma figure and she finally gave in to having equine friends.  She had not bonded to a single other horse at this point.  She began to soften with them and the young ponies were less in her face so they began to bond.  The other mare was a seasoned broodmare.  I wanted this mare to witness the process of birth and care by a mare who was good at it.  When the MFT mare foaled, it was in the lot smack dab in the middle of this little herd I created and the mare did her thing, foaling was easy and she was nurturing and protective but not overly protective as to be neurotic acting.  They remained with the "herd" and the foal was a doll to handle.   

When it came time for this Arabian to foal, I had been spending a "lot" of time with her before hand.  She was brought into the barn every evening, a little feed and a lot of TLC.  She had still not bonded with me but accepted the care a little more everyday.  This was a mare who shuddered at being groomed and would not put her head in my arms but pulled back with just a touch from me.  I started her on red raspberry leaves from my local health food store a couple of weeks before she was due.  She got a fist full mixed in her feed every night with just a little feed but she was on good grass hay and had spent much of her pregnancy on pasture.  I also put her on titrated doses of domperidone to regulate the milk production a week before her due date.  She looked like a maiden mare who had never had milk at all so I figured she may have foaled her first time with no milk.

The day she foaled, yes I was worried.  It was early morning, just a day before her due date.  I got up at day break and there she was in the lot and about 10 feet from the foal on the ground.  He was a big, lanky foal.  She would charge the others if they approached the foal but wasn't licking it when I found them.  The foal looked like he had been cleaned but I wasn't sure if she had done it or the other mare.   I was at least happy that she was not wanting any of the others near him.  I loaded him up and brought him into the barn and she followed me, looking interested but didn't seem to want him to touch her so I put him in a far corner and he got up on his feet while I haltered her and stood in her line of vision so she couldn't see the foal.  I praised her, cried, rubbed her and told her what a beautiful baby she had.  I had been slowly getting her used to having her sides, belly, back end and udder touched so I waited till I felt her relaxing (she was learning that she was safe and cared for in the barn with me) and I was able to rube her udder, which was nice and full and I milked out a couple squirts without a reaction from her.  By then, the foal was nearby but I still kept between them and let the foal get close and nuzzle as I reassured her.  It didn't take him long, he was hungry!  When he latched on, it was like a lightbulb lit up and she totally relaxed then would tense a little when the milk let down but she was a different mare from that moment.

She ended up being the best mom and when I turned her out this time,  a couple weeks after foaling, she was now a part of the herd.  Maybe the bottom of the totem pole but accepted and she stayed with them.  I was so proud of this mare.

It took another 2 years, really 2 years for her to become mine but I would trust her with my life now and it wasn't until this year that the woman who had boarded her when I bought her told me that she had been severely abused at the trainers and came home "crazy" so they wanted rid of her.   I can turn her out in the yard, which is open to the hay pasture, which is open to the road, for weeks and she's never stepped off the property.  She's given special privileges and she seems to know that and it's like she reads my mind now were "so" on the same page.   I wouldn't take a million for this mare now and I've chosen not to have her trained to ride although I would not be afraid of it as she will accept any of the crazy things I do with her and trusts I will not ask of her anything that would hurt her.  

I think there "are" horses out there of every breed with issues, whether man made or bred in but I also feel certain horses match up with certain people and I always preach that when people buy our mules.   They spend a lot of time with them here before they can leave with them and you can see from the reactions of both the people and the mule whether they will work together, or not.

I don't know how anyone can label a Breed as difficult.

Here is my Macarena, loose in the front yard......edited to include photo


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## mydakota (Jun 10, 2011)

patandchickens said:
			
		

> I dunno, I've known an awful lot of dead-broke bombproof kid-safe Arabs doing little local hunter shows or just backyard pets or that sort of thing. I do not think it is mainly an issue of ensuring sufficient exercise to burn off excess energy, nor a requirement for skilled riding.
> 
> To me the major "arab trait" that really (to me) DOES seem to be fairly consistant across the breed, with relatively few exceptions, is the tendency to raise the head and perk the ears at interesting new observations. Riders who take this as signs of impending doom tend to TURN IT INTO impending doom; riders who just take it as something that arabs often do, but of no particular consequence, tend to have nice calm problem-free rides
> 
> ...


I am 46 years old and have ridden Arabs my whole life.  I agree with this.  Right now I have a purebred Arab mare who is bombproof and my kids ride, and I have an Arab/QH cross gelding who is very high-energy, but very smart and willing.  I can't imagine riding anything else.


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## terrilhb (Jun 10, 2011)

What beautiful horses. Thank you so much for the beautiful pictures. Awesome.


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## mydakota (Jun 10, 2011)

Just thought I should also add, isn't a certain "energy" the whole point of riding an Arabian anyway?  Not saying that they shouldn't be mannerly and well-behaved.  But having Arabians is all about enjoying what makes them Arab in the first place.  They have a certain energy and a certain presence most other horses don't.  Not for everyone. But for those that love them? Priceless.


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## PatchiePonie (Oct 14, 2011)

*ridiculously cute*


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## kstaven (Oct 14, 2011)

mydakota said:
			
		

> Just thought I should also add, isn't a certain "energy" the whole point of riding an Arabian anyway?  Not saying that they shouldn't be mannerly and well-behaved.  But having Arabians is all about enjoying what makes them Arab in the first place.  They have a certain energy and a certain presence most other horses don't.  Not for everyone. But for those that love them? Priceless.


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