# Horse Barn Questions



## MissDanni (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies here 

Ok a few questions:

How high should the walls be? (full walls)
I want a dirt floor so should cementing the corner and support posts be fine?
Any kind of wood I shouldn't use?

I'm sure I'll think of more questions but these are off the top of my head.


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## WallTenters (Mar 28, 2010)

How big are your horses? Also, do you plan to stack hay in part of the barn as well, or is it just a run-in? As to the cement, yes just doing corner posts is fine, but make sure that you bury that deep enough so your ground doesn't get dug out around it and then you have a huge tripping hazard. 

Some say not to use pressure-treated wood because of the chemicals (if you have a wood chewer), but ironically many people recommend using them for wood chewers to deter the chewing because of the taste.. kind of a personal preference I think. 

I would use 2x6s if you can at least half-way up the walls, then plywood from there. The plywood is cheaper, but will also get broken easily with a misplaced kick at a fly (etc.), and then you have an unsightly mess. 

I saw a very nice run-in (a friend's) with 6x6 pressure treated corner beams, the rafters, etc. with 2x4s, with 2x6s about 4 feet up the walls. Siding wood (not sure what the technical term is for that!) was wrapped around the whole outside, looked great inside and out, very effective, and easy to clean. Theirs was about 6ft walls going up to maybe 8ft, and was 12ftx24ft to use for two horses (one was a large TW, the other an Arab pony).


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## patandchickens (Mar 28, 2010)

Honestly, you really don't need to, and IMHO should not, cement your posts in. It just makes them rot faster, and is extra work and expense, without giving any meaningful benefit. Use good thick posts -- pole-barn type poles at least 6-8" diameter, or 6x6 pressure-treated posts -- and sink them well and properly and tightly at least 3 ft deep and preferably more like 4 feet deep. And that will be FINE.

Walls should probably be 8'. Note that if your ceiling or doorways are 8', a rearing horse will be at risk of clocking its head into them with potentially terrible results for the horse -- however it takes about 12' to actually remove that risk, which is often not realistic to build (esp. for doorways), and a good argument can be made that it is better for a horse to hit its head low (without a full windup) than higher up. But lower than 8' is definitely a bad idea.

I would not personally use pressure treated wood anywhere it can be chewed on -- there are better ways of deterring chewing, with less risk -- but you need it for your posts and sills. Otherwise, use either 2x6 or larger lumber (plain pine is fine, fir or hemlock are better, roughcut fully-2" lumber is best) or for siding in areas that are unlikely to be kicked you can use 3/4" plywood, appropriately primed and painted. Don't use metal siding anywhere a horse could kick it; and make sure metal roof overhangs are high enough to be out of the way of heads waving around, or are fenced off so the horse cannot accidentally scalp himself or remove an eye.

Frankly a good all-weather shed is more important than a barn as such -- horses are generally healthier if they live outside all the time, barring illness.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## freemotion (Mar 28, 2010)

Yes to all of the above!  I like dirt floors and my little barn (two stall with a storage area) was built on cement piers (sp?)

As for hay storage, I found out the hard way that the only way to NOT have mold on the bottom bales is to not buy too much at once, and to stack TWO pallets on a layer of bricks, then stack the hay on that.  In a damp year, three pallets would be better.  Get a cat.  Rats love to live under pallets.  They also store horse poop under pallets.  They also steal chicken eggs and store them under pallets.  Ick.


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## michickenwrangler (Mar 28, 2010)

Dirt floors are nice for mucking out stalls. All the urine drains away and the manure composts--after you've picked up the big piles of course. I've worked at several boarding stables and would prefer to clean stalls on earthen floors than cement or stall mats. Mats are heavy and a pain. I would only use them if I had cement floors.


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## debiraymond (Mar 28, 2010)

I am a complete and total rookie here so take it for what it is worth.  The shelter we are building is 10' tall, in case one rears up they won't bump their heads.  We used 12' 2x4's and buried 2 feet in the ground.  Plywood around and above.  We have dirt and are planning on keeping it that way unless I read something that makes sense.


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## MissDanni (Mar 28, 2010)

I am SO glad that I joined this site ( Good call hubby )

You guys are great! Thank you so much for all the great information and advice.


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## debiraymond (Mar 28, 2010)

I forgot to add that we built ours this way on the advice of a trainer.  For what it's worth.  I know nothing!


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## patandchickens (Mar 29, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> As for hay storage, I found out the hard way that the only way to NOT have mold on the bottom bales is to not buy too much at once, and to stack TWO pallets on a layer of bricks, then stack the hay on that.  In a damp year, three pallets would be better.


And a tarp under the pallets, too. I find that helps a lot. I do have to replace the tarp most years on account of rodents chewing holes in it (although if you are on higher drier better drained ground than my barn, a few holes in the tarp might not be such a problem).

Pat


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## MissDanni (Mar 29, 2010)

Hey pat, 

Thanks for the tips, the tarp is a great idea.

As it is, we have an existing small barn that will be used for storage. 
We have decided to go with a pole style barn for the new guy. Basically it will be a big box stall. This way when we are ready to get him a friend we can just build another box on to this one.

I read a lot of people keep the horses out 24/7 365, however we live in eastern Canada and it gets crazy cold here and the winters are brutal. 

I guess we will just have to see how he gets along. Maybe come winter we will just leave his barn open so he can come and go.


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## miss_thenorth (Mar 29, 2010)

My horses live in a barn, but we rigged it so that it can be used as a run-in year round.  We can close it off if needed, and section it off while we are grooming one horse, to keep the other one out.  It is a perfect setup as far as that is concerned.

Even in eastern Canada, horses can be left out 24/7/365 if they have a place to get out of the elements.  but it is wise to have another area (as in enclosed stall) in case of illness, and for vet work etc.


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## patandchickens (Mar 29, 2010)

MissDanni said:
			
		

> I read a lot of people keep the horses out 24/7 365, however we live in eastern Canada and it gets crazy cold here and the winters are brutal.


Uh, I live an hour north of Toronto, in a very open windy location with lows down to -35 C.  My two TBs (one elderly) and elderly LipizzanerX gelding live outside 24/7/365 -- except there are usually two or three days a year when I bring them in for a few hours or overnight because it is too nasty, usually it's not from cold so much as a warm wet snow with hard winds from the south, which their shed does not protect them very well from. With turnout sheet or blanket, even the elderly TB does FINE. He is actually much much healthier and sounder than before we moved here, when I had to board him and thus he was only out during the daytime. 

(edited to clarify -- they do have a big shed, of course, which gives them excellent shelter from N and W winds, and they can tuck inside the little bit of E wall when there is an E wind)



> I guess we will just have to see how he gets along. Maybe come winter we will just leave his barn open so he can come and go.


Do. See what happens  Get a GOOD QUALITY waterproof turnout sheet (not blanket, or at least *in addition* to a turnout blanket) and make an ample and deep shed with good footing around it, and you will be surprised 

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## freemotion (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks for the tarp tip, Pat, I will be using one this fall.  I am guessing that the tarp goes directly on the ground, pallets on top of it?

MissDanni, if you blanket or sheet turned-out horses, be sure to check for dampness along their SPINES daily by running your hand up inside the blanket.  A common newbie mistake is to check the chest or armpit for dampness and not the back.  If they get a bit warm during the day and sweat a bit, it can steam up under the blanket and make them wet UP HIGH and when you check on them, they can be completely dry lower down.  

Also, no blanket is completely waterproof, really.  Be sure to have spares for the rainy season if you get days and days of rain.  I prefer to leave turned-out horses naked, and don't over-groom.  A bit of "dirt" is very water-proofing, and you will see a wet winter coat that is quite dry near the skin.

I kept horses (Arabians, no less) in a turn-out situation in Northern Maine for years, with winter temps often at -40F and wind chills even lower.  It was a rare occasion that anyone had to be brought into the indoor arena overnight....only when the wind was coming from an unusual direction, like south or east, and making it into their sheds.  On extremely rare occasions, a horse had to be brought in to be scraped and dried with a couple of layers of good polar fleece and a cotton sheet to wick water and keep them warm while they dried.  Then right back outside after a quick fluffing.  By rare I mean once every year or two.


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## patandchickens (Mar 29, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> I am guessing that the tarp goes directly on the ground, pallets on top of it?


Yup! 



> Also, no blanket is completely waterproof, really.  Be sure to have spares for the rainy season if you get days and days of rain.  I prefer to leave turned-out horses naked, and don't over-groom.


I find that the hardest weather for the horses is a) strong wind they can't get out of, accompanied by cold rain or wet snow; b) soaking rain when they have started shedding out their winter coat (e.g. nowadays); and c) rain that lasts long enough to wet the haircoat to the roots.  

Mine wear their turnouts more for wind than for precipitation. The fields are pretty open and windy, and with low-body-fat older TBs they really need some sort of windbreak in order to keep their weight on them. Without turnout sheets they'd pretty much spend all their time inside the shed; with them, they spend most of their time roaming around the paddocks, grazing or just foolin' around and sightseeing.

I find that having a turnout sheet plus (for the TBs) turnout blanket works very well for me, because the blanket is useful when it is a windy snowy -30 C out there and can also double as a spare if the turnout sheet gets soaked thru after days of rain as Free says. THey don't mind half a day or a day of wearing the warmer garment while the other one dries out.

BTW I am a big, big fan of Schneiders' turnout sheets/blankets (www.sstack.com), although they can be expensive to obtain in Canada unless you can have them mailed to someone in the States and pick 'em up when you visit down there which is what I do 

JME, good luck, have fun,

Pat


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