# So glad that we got two pups at the same time



## Stubbornhillfarm (Sep 5, 2012)

As I watched these two play last night, it reminded me of how thankful I am that we were able to get two pups at the same time.  Sure, on occassion, when they decide to tag team and be a team of naughtyness, it is a handful.  But thankfully that doesn't happen often.  

Instead, I witness them working as a team; one watching in one direction, one in another.  Or one on one level and the other on another level.  Both getting different vantage points.  They also play together.  They wear each other out.  They know that our older dog is not a play toy.  They follow him, sometimes chase him if he has a stick, but they don't rough house with him like they do with each other.  While watching them last night, I thought of how having two of them is actually teaching them how to handle an attack if a predator ever gets a hold of them.  They practiced wrestling moves from every angle.  They grab each others necks, legs, sides, tails.  They are on top, they are on bottom.  They get pinned, then they figure a way out.  If we only had one, how would they learn all this?  

They are fun to watch and I am so glad that we will someday have a great working team.


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## RemudaOne (Sep 5, 2012)

I got two as well. The second one after I saw how the first was working out her boredom on the sheep . Bringing the second one on completely solved that problem


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## Grazer (Sep 5, 2012)

Great post Stubbornhillfarm. I know a lot of people are very much against getting 2 puppies at the same time, particularly litter mates. Because they think it is a recipe for disaster, but that's not the case with experienced dog owners IMO.
And I bet your 2 pups are going to be a huge asset to your farm when they grow up. Especially because they will develop a very tight bond, which will help them work as a team even better.
Some of the things dogs can teach one another is something humans can never teach to dogs


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## Mzyla (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm pleased to read such positive assertion!
Let it be noted that OP was researching, studying and seeking answers for entire 5 months while puppies were still fetuses in my bitch's belly.
She didn't just jump on it without being prepared.
More new LGD owners should be doing the same in order to have a success story to tell, instead of mishap.

It is common for two LGD dogs to display complementary behaviors.
Yet the performance of each of them does differ in most cases.

Each buyer of pairs is reporting that Females are more dynamic and stubborn, while Males are more obedient and laid back.

A pair could be inseparable; they cry for each other, one is sad when the other is gone and of course they watching each other back. That's more then we can tell about humans.


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## secuono (Sep 8, 2012)

I wish I had gotten two. Mine is so bored out of it's mind it kills for fun. No one ever says two pups is better than one, but I see it as critical. So freaking pissed


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Sep 10, 2012)

*secuono*, I am sorry to hear that!  I'm just not sure that it would be possible for us to keep them entertained all day long if there were only one.  They are so dag'gone smart and as you say, get bored easily.  Are you in a position to get another one if one was available? 

Thanks* Mzyla*.  It is a huge undertaking to bring a 10+ year commitment into your family, never mind 2.  Researching and building a relationship with the breeder, IMO is key to making sure the right choice is made.  We couldn't be happier with the outcome! 

*Grazer*, they are going to be a great team.  Last night after dark, we heard our male barking and one dog run down the long set of stairs that we have.  Seconds later, we heard  the other dog run up the stairs.  We assumed that one left the look out to chase and then the other assumed position.  It was pretty cool!  

*Remuda One*, glad that worked out for you and that you were able to find a solution to the bordem problem quickly before you got aggrivated with your pup.  I think that happens often and then things just get to a point where people don't know what to do.  Hopefully sites like this one can help educate and give ideas in order to avoid dissapointment.


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## EllieMay (Sep 10, 2012)

I was fortunate enough to obtain two littermates, too.
They are great together.
They have each other for their dog-time play and they also bark together and chase after anything threatening (which may just be a fallen leaf).
They're fun to watch.


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Oct 15, 2012)

I witnessed this behavior twice in the last week and find it very interesting.  Maybe because they are my dogs or maybe because I just find the working dogs interesting in general.

My two dogs take shifts.

From the time we get home in the evening until we go to work in the morning they are free to roam and do their job.  They do it well.  We hear them barking and running often.  Other than a Red Tail Hawk, we have not seen a predator in quite some time.  They work as a team.  The male is the lead and the female stays put unless he calls her.  We have seen this for quite some time now.

The thing we have just noticed, is at night, (normally after we have gone to bed) they seem to take shifts resting.  Our female hates rain and just doesn't really care to play in water in general.  Our male loves it!  The other night at about 10:30pm I went out for something.  It of course was pitch black out.  One of the pups followed me from the yard to the barn.  I assumed it was the male.  As I got to the barn and switched the light on, I could see that the male had been resting in the barn and it was the female that was outside.  That is not normal.  (or so we thought!) 

Then the other night, again pretty late.  It was pouring out and I went to check on things.  Again, the female was outside and the male was inside.  She normally does whatever she can to get out of the rain.  So obviously it is what they do! 

Pretty neat!  What observations have you all made about your working teams?


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## poorboys (Oct 15, 2012)

I have 3, two female and one male, the male is always out front and center, they call upon each other when teamed up, the alpha female runs down with the male and the other female works the goats up towards the barn, untill the alarm is done. I DO  bred mine and sell alot in pairs, mostly the females. The other day I had a mishap with a hay lid, the wind blew it down on my head and knock me out, when I open my eyes their was my male taking care of me, smelling my breath, and holding my head up. Now that's a great dog, Love these dogs and with good care and love by you, they will be the best dogs you can have for your livestock and your=self.


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## Auntina (Nov 24, 2012)

We recently puchased 2 LGD's (female/male-litter mates).  They are Great Pyrenees/Anatolian mix.   Our pups are 3 months old and sometimes they fight like they are going to kill one another.  Is this normal?   There hasn't been any wounding or blood but it sure appears to be pretty ferocious at times.  Sometimes we step in to break them up, others, we just let them go.  We onced owned two female/spayed Anatolian/Pyrenees dogs in the past and never had this fighting problem.  Yet, we got them when they were about 6 months old.   We are just curious to know if this is normal behavior for these pups or is there a problem?
Thank you in advanced for your replies


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## Southern by choice (Nov 24, 2012)

This is exactly why getting litter mates is not a good idea. The dogs are not able to develop their own identities and the never ending sibling rivalry will continue on. Does it happen every time, No, but this is an issue that most responsible breeders are  aware of and that is why they do not sell litter mates. I always wonder about breeders that do not know about this, or care. Almost any LGD book, and breeders warn against this. 

 But seeing how you are already invested in these two dogs the best you can do is separate them and allow them to develop their own personalities. Separate fields, separate people time etc. Allow them to have a brief period of time together, supervised, correct quickly and sharply any behavior that is undesirable.

If you do not think you can correct this, they are only 3 months old so that means you've had them for 1 month, call the breeder.
Return one of the dogs and see if they have another litter you may get another pup from. Having 1 dog a little older also will help. M/F siblings aren't usually as much of a problem than M/M or F/F.  You also may have a F alpha and a M alpha. That is never good.


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## Auntina (Nov 24, 2012)

Oh, I am sorry.  We have owned them for 3 months.    The problem I am seeing with these two are that they fight over bones and stuff they find in the field.  I just gave both dogs a bone...the male hid his and is now trying to take the females away,  hence starting a fight. 



I'll be back............


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## RemudaOne (Nov 24, 2012)

I have two female siblings.  I can feed them their dog food together, but I always set the bowls down about 10 or fifteen feet apart. I NEVER give them any other food items or bones together...... EVER. I only do that when i have them in seperate pastures.  If you're only seeing this fighting when you do this, it's NOT a sibling problem, it's fighting over food and I don't think it matters whether they are kin or not in this respect.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 24, 2012)

I agree Remuda! Many LGD's and dogs in general can be very aggressive over food, bones. 

I don't allow fighting over food for any reason, ever, and nip that in the bud. We had a 6week old F pyr and a 9week old F Anatolian from the first day(we picked them up at the same time- different breeders) they tried to kill each over food!  The only dog that's still a jerk over food is Callie the Anatolian. She is really my farm partners dog and he just doesn't think his dog needs any manners or correction over anything!  She will not kill over food, she justs growls if the dogs or goats come near her food.
My pyrs can all share a 3ft bone one on each end, and all is fine. If the Anatolian wants to share they will let her but she inevitably  will try to take it, when that happens it is on! She has had her butt handed to her. I do let the dogs work these issues out themselves because they are 1,1,9m,8m and need to work out those issues among themselves.

 If this is all your seeing I wouldn't be too worried about it.


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Nov 26, 2012)

Sorry, I have been on vacation with no Internet access.

It does appear that what Auntina is speaking of in my opinion is food aggression.  Our female "once", growled at my husband when he took something away from her.  He dropped her to the ground, rolled her over and held her there until she stopped squirming, which is how we reprimand them.  And that was the last time for any of that buisiness.

Our pups from day 1 have eaten out of the same bowl and continue to do so till this day.  They have more bones than they could ever need and there is no fighting over them.  

They do wrestle and teach each other in that way.  There has never been any sort of aggression.  We brought 4 sibling pups home from NY were we got them.  Two for us, two for someone else.  One of the four was very vocal.  When they would start rough housing, the one would be very loud and sound like there was a brutal fight going on.  There wasn't, but it did sound like it.  

I would break up any aggressive fighting when you witness it.  Make sure that they have more than enough bones to go around and work with them during feeding time.  Put there food down, put your hands in there.  Take it away for a minute, put it back down.  If they act aggressive towards you, stop, drop, roll and hold them.  They must learn that,  that behavior is unacceptable.

And welcome Auntina!


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## whr (Jan 1, 2013)

I bought 2 pups also.   They can play and grow up together.  Sometimes they may need a buddy to take on a pack of strays or coyotes.


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Feb 21, 2013)

Just some updated pictures.  They are now 10 months old.  

Wisdom, she is 102 pounds





Primo, he is now 111 pounds, (not that you can tell by this blurry close up)


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## Ranchhandok (Mar 25, 2013)

In getting two, would you recommend two females, males, or one of each?


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## EllieMay (Mar 25, 2013)

I don't think it much matters as far as male/female.
The males will grow larger, so if size is what you're looking for, then go with a male.
I just happened to get all males because that is what was available at the time and I really didn't care.
Two pups from one litter and another pup from another breeder.
The three of them were best friends and they all developed their own unique personalities and traits.
They were two Pyrs and one Kangal.
I later got another Kangal female and she is actually the fiercest of the bunch.

Getting multiple pups at the same time allows them to settle into their new home immediately without the worry and fuss of a whining pup who is miserably longing for its littermates.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 25, 2013)

Ranchhandok said:
			
		

> In getting two, would you recommend two females, males, or one of each?


Typically two males left intact will eventually fight...even when raised together. I prefer male/female teams. Females especially pyrs are smaller than their male counterparts however the females tend to be very fierce. We have 3 pyrs and an Anatolian... 2 teams.  m/f all intact.


Two dogs are better at carrying out the "necessary" when a threat produces itself. Teams tend to work well. Understanding your predator level is key to understanding your needs for a guardian.


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Mar 26, 2013)

We chose to get on male and one female as they tend to have different traits.  As others have said, commonly males are larger with deepr voices, very intimidating.  Females are smaller with a loyal fierceness if that makes sense.  We wanted so many different qualities and believe we got most of what we wanted.  

They do play rough. (that's how they learn)  They don't fight.  Ours our brother and sister.  I know that many discourage that, however, we have never had an issue with dominance or any issue.  They are both completely different dogs.  They are truly a team and  take turns guarding which is  a schedule they came up with.  Almost like one is on duty and the other is back up.


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## EllieMay (Mar 26, 2013)

Yeah, I agree.
We only have one intact male.


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## Grazer (Mar 27, 2013)

I would also recommend a male/female team. Especially for someone who doesn't have years of experience with LGD breeds.
There is just a far less chance of any serious conflicts between a male and a female.

Btw Stubbornhillfarm, you should update us with some new pics of your gorgeous puppies, before they start blowing their coats (if they haven't already lol). I bet they are just stunning now


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