# They CLOSED our hunting grounds?



## SkyWarrior (Nov 11, 2012)

Today, we were in for a shock.  A lock gate stood across the road that led to our hunting area.  It seems that the Nature Conservancy that bought the Montana Legacy lands has decided to keep people from traveling by motorized vehicle in lands that were purchased with taxpayer money and were to eventually go to the state or federal ownership.   

Basically, we can still use it, but we either have to walk miles (good luck with that) or ride our horses in (the snow prevents us at the moment).  Our horses aren't hunting trained yet, but that will have to happen this summer if we are going to get our meat next year.  It's interesting that they did this right in the middle of hunting season.  I suspect it wasn't a coincidence.  Oddly enough, they prohibit vehicles on roads, but after December 1, you can use a snowmobile back there.

In essence, they have made a safe haven for wolves to come down and attack our livestock.     They've made it impossible to hunt there.  

So, as if I didn't have more to do, I'm going to have to start working toward being a squeaky wheel and push the state to buy the lands NOW so that Montanans can use these lands.  These lands have been open for eons when Plum Creek Timber owned it.  They promised the same access would continue.  They lied.


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## Queen Mum (Nov 11, 2012)

So they didn't actually close it, they restricted it to non motorized traffic?   The feds are increasingly doing that all over the country.  They started that in the Pacific NW about 8 years ago.   It's one of the reasons that pack goats are being used in increasing numbers by the park service and hikers and hunters.   Because motorized vehicles are more and more restricted on federal parklands.  Even the trails crews have to use non-motorized and non-mechanical means to maintain some of the more sensitive trails.

I'm not sure it's the best thing, everywhere but in some parts of the country it is neccessary as overuse by vehicular traffic has devastated the trails and the wildlife.   On the other hand, in other places the restrictions are resulting in huge overbalances of problem populations.  The pendulum always swings in one direction or another.  But it will eventually come back to center.


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## Stacykins (Nov 11, 2012)

I honestly don't see what the problem is, the land IS still open to hunting. The only change is that motor vehicle access is prohibited. That isn't new or surprising in many places. 



			
				SkyWarrior said:
			
		

> In essence, they have made a safe haven for wolves to come down and attack our livestock.     They've made it impossible to hunt there.


Also, if you actually look at the statistics, livestock have a much larger danger from coyotes, *domestic dogs*, and disease. Wolves, even in areas with a higher density, in reality do not attack livestock very often. Here in the UP, where we DO have a great deal of wolves, almost never have incidents where livestock are taken by wolves. You can keep your goats in the middle of wolf territory, and you are much more likely to loose one to a simple coyote or the neighbor's roaming dog. Even a bear is more likely to take out livestock. So please don't think my view is coming from some nave city dweller who never has heard or seen a wolf and thinks they are magical. It comes from actually sitting down with the research and numbers, and also the local livestock owners.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 11, 2012)

Research and numbers.... Hmm... I don't give a crap about it, I just know when my animals are killed by predators they are still dead!


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## SkyWarrior (Nov 11, 2012)

Here's the problem:

The mileage is prohibited to walk up there   The land was supposed to maintain the same access for Montana hunters and recreationists.  No one went off road there because the land is so steep, and now handicap hunters can't get their meat.  We have more than enough designated wilderness areas where you can't go except by horse and foot.  Our national forests and areas where we used to hunt are being transformed into de facto wilderness because people outside the state don't understand how vast it is.  

The area will now see an overabundance of snowmobiles that CAN drive off road and damage the vegetation.  

As for your statistics, Stacykins, that's true in your area.  Tell that to the folks who lost 100 head of sheep due to a wolf pack that left the carcasses, the guy who lost his favorite horse, people who lose cattle up here all the time, the people who lost their livestock guardian dogs, or anyone else who lost an animal due to wolves around here.  They no longer pay to replace animals.


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## Pearce Pastures (Nov 11, 2012)

x2 SBC.  I can imagine your frustration SW especially when you have been hunting the area for a long time.  I appreciate government, I really do, and I respect that some places are trying to preserve environments, but it goes too far sometimes, like when it is impeding people who hunt responsibly in a places that _is _designated for hunting (ya know instead of violating other laws, like hunting in your front yard).  I also have several friends that supplement their household with hunted meat and I have to wonder, how would they haul their catch?  Like say you did trek way out in the woods, sit all day, and bagged a deer, then what do you do?   Toss over your shoulder  ?  And if you abandon it there because you can't haul it out, that is a violation as well.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 11, 2012)

Most people know nothing about Agenda 21, go in and google the UN agenda 21. This affects all of us, especially those of us with land and who farm. Take a look at the projected map.... Look how much land will be taken by the government and designated "protected" all in the name of "saving the environment", it is already happening in the US. Take a look at the ultimate goal of NO single family homes, re designating the masses to the city. No personal land. Eventually no hunting because "we must be protecting the wildlife" at all cost. Meaning people... who cares. This is real, take a look at your county and State representatives who are supporting this. This is not something new, this "agenda" has been in the making for years. Yep, there are a lot of sites with blah, blah, blah but look at the actual UN site. Take a look at how much land the government has bought up in the last 10 years.


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## CocoNUT (Nov 11, 2012)

Nevermind that MOST hunters are biggest conservationist! Some game/meat species have been SAVED frome extinction by hunt clubs in the southern states...and are being reintroduced back into their original habitats.

Also...let's not forget about all the vector-borne diseases that are starting to spread worse than previous years...Lyme disease....thank you very much! Oh...let's save Bambi....now we have lyme disease! Nevermind Rocky Mountain Spotten Fever and this new thing...supposedly getting bad down towards Charlottesville, VA: 

http://news.yahoo.com/rare-meat-allergy-linked-ticks-found-across-us-175943047.html

I like wide, open spaces as much as everyone else...but I think we should get to CHOOSE to live in them...or be crammed into cities...YUCK!


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## Bitterroot (Nov 11, 2012)

Tree huggers will be the death of what makes Montana so wild and beautiful.

A bit off topic, but what sort of hunting are you looking to do?  I've got a few deer that aren't afraid of people I'd like to see diasappear, and I don't live too far from ya ...


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## SkyWarrior (Nov 12, 2012)

Bitterroot said:
			
		

> Tree huggers will be the death of what makes Montana so wild and beautiful.
> 
> A bit off topic, but what sort of hunting are you looking to do?  I've got a few deer that aren't afraid of people I'd like to see diasappear, and I don't live too far from ya ...


Truth right there.

Alas, we got our deer and I am looking for elk now.  And wolves.   If I had another tag, I'd be there in a heartbeat and take care of your deer problem.  Love, love, love venison.  Good stuff!

Went on a ranch that's being handled as a Block Management Unit and walked FOREVER (not allowed to drive on it).  2400 acres all told, not counting the public land behind it.  Barely scratched the surface on the property.  Saw no ungulates, but did see a very interesting woodpecker (I think).  Only tracks were human, deer, coyote, turkey, and snowshoe hare.  

As an aside, we followed a hunter's drag back to the kill site in the hopes to surprise a wolf.  No go.  It appears that the ravens, coyotes, and TURKEYS cleaned up the gut pile.  I was very surprised to see that the turkeys follow blood trails.  I know they eat insects, but somehow I hadn't envisioned them scavenging.  It's been a really rough summer with little food for animals.  I bet they're starving.


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## SkyWarrior (Nov 12, 2012)

CocoNUT said:
			
		

> Nevermind that MOST hunters are biggest conservationist! Some game/meat species have been SAVED frome extinction by hunt clubs in the southern states...and are being reintroduced back into their original habitats.
> 
> Also...let's not forget about all the vector-borne diseases that are starting to spread worse than previous years...Lyme disease....thank you very much! Oh...let's save Bambi....now we have lyme disease! Nevermind Rocky Mountain Spotten Fever and this new thing...supposedly getting bad down towards Charlottesville, VA:
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the link about that tick-borne disease.  Weird stuff.  We get a lot of ticks out here.  Not so much with fleas.  

Yes, hunting money goes toward conservation--which most people who aren't hunters don't realize.  More often than not, huge amounts of money go to preserve wild lands, habitats, and species that come from hunters' pockets.  An ecology prof said it best -- "Want to save a species?  Make it a game animal.  Guaranteed to have more studies and increase in habitat due to money and research."


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