# Medicated Feed for babies question...



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Dec 18, 2013)

I've had all my baby goats on a cocci medicated pellet feed, they love it and eat a ton of it. However I just bred my 8 month olds who are still on it and I was wondering if I need to take them off it since they are now pregnant... Here's the feed.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 19, 2013)

we do not take ours off of the medicated feed,   But if it is deccox and not rumensin(monensin) the cocci can build up a resistance to the deccox. Something to consider when using medicated feeds and which one you are using. 
I see your feed has Monensin in it and all I can tell you is that is what we use and we do not take ours off of it, infact toxoplasmosis from cats can be slowed down by feeding a Monensin medicated feed during gestation.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Dec 19, 2013)

Ok good to know, thank you 20Kids! I will KEEP them on it!


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## alsea1 (Dec 19, 2013)

Hmm. I may pick some up.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 20, 2013)

20kidsonhill said:


> we do not take ours off of the medicated feed,   But if it is deccox and not rumensin(monensin) the cocci can build up a resistance to the deccox. Something to consider when using medicated feeds and which one you are using.
> I see your feed has Monensin in it and all I can tell you is that is what we use and we do not take ours off of it, infact toxoplasmosis from cats can be slowed down by feeding a Monensin medicated feed during gestation.



Do you keep your adults on it too?
I don't know anything about medicated feed.
Considering it for this year but am nervous about it. Never used it and am not sure of the protocol.
If the adults get to it what about their milk?


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## alsea1 (Dec 20, 2013)

All good questions southern.  I think I would go directly to the makers of the product and check with them.  They should be able to give you the correct info.
I was told that the medicated feed for goats is safe to use milk from and eat meat from.  But I got this info from the feed dealer I go to. So it is possible that its not correct.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 20, 2013)

there is no withdrawal for selling the goats for meat, we don't milk.  We do feed it to our adults,  But most our adults after age 2 are only fed grain when they are either being flushed for breeding or 1 month before they kid and while they are nursing for about 8 to 10 weeks, So they would be on grain for about 3 months of the year, our bucks get some grain in the winter as well, partly due to colder weather and partly due to putting weight back on them after breeding season.   Monensin/rumensin is toxic to horses and toxic if not mixed in the feed evenly.   But to do any good you do need to feed a certain amount per animal per day.  Don't really know what that is per body weight, I know my adults are suppose to get at least a lb of medicated feed a day, my kids all are on free choice grain so they get plenty. I still need to treat for cocci in addition to this.   We have coccidiosis terrible in our area, Just the right conditions for it.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 20, 2013)

*Great info! Thanks*.
We saw 6 oocysts and 10 oocysts in our fecals last year and did a preventative (1 dose) of the Toltrazuril.  A new goat kid came in with 34 oocyst... we did the same and re-treated 1 dose 10 days later. 
We only fed 1 cup of feed per day so probably not any help there. The kids may be worth feeding  it though. They get 1/4-1/2 cup a day... but they are little ND's.
The Kiko meat goats seem ok as long as they are moved through the land. 2 bucklings that were seperated at wean and in wet marshy conditions never got coccidiosis but they did get treated with the Toltrazuril too.

With the rains and wet last year and who knows what this year will hold I am trying to be a little cautious.... we already have mud and have had a great deal of erosion... causing us to have to really make some changes while we fix the problem. Grrr


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## Sweetened (Dec 20, 2013)

Personally, I don't do medicated feed, and with chickens I sure haven't found it to be helpful when I accidentally started a hatch on medicated and continued them on it.  To me, it's a lot like giving birth to a perfectly healthy child and putting them on penicillin, just in case.  With our goats, since taking them off pelleted feed, they have better body condition and I don't find them with scours -- the only goat feed we can get here is medicated, but at the time we didn't have hay and they had been pellet fed by their previous owners anyway.  They were VORACIOUS for pelleted feed.

I fear medicated feeds understanding bacterial life cycles.  Some bacteria can birth 10 generations or more in a few days, and it's hard to think about that.  Anything surviving the feed is multiplying and building immunity to the synthetic medication at an incredibly rapid rate.  Within a year or two you could have total immunity.  It is my understanding that the mectins in our area are rarely helpful, as the bugs and parasites have built up an immunity much like, when I had salmonella poisioning before I ever got into farming, they took me off all the antibiotics because it was "pointless", I had a 99.9% resistant strain.

I've had great luck with treating the gut, keeping good flora levels in balance.  It's preventative and doesn't create or stimulate mutations in bacteria, viral and parasitic invaders. 

This works for me, and I understand why people would feed medicated and don't wrong them for it.  I would, personally, worry that feeding them medicated feed while pregnant would create immunity or resistance issue in the future.  However, I think people have been doing it so long, that others who do feed this way would be able to tell you the other side.  I hope this helps without stepping on toes =/ not my intention.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 20, 2013)

All opinions are welcome, We had problems with a store bought bagged feed and we switched to our own ration and took out distillers grains our problems let up.  I can't explain this very well, but Monensin/rumensin is set up to let a certain amount of cocci live(it is called something) it is not like other bacteria or antibiotics and cocci does not build up a resistance to rumensin.   Cocci does build up a resistance to deccox and deccox feed will become ineffective if used non-stop.  But clearly with all that said our country has over used antibiotics and medications in many areas of animal husbandry.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 20, 2013)

I am a "needs to _prove_ it needs it" kind. 
We have never needed to use anything but our region (NC) last year was hit with 3 seasons of rain and we never had a hot summer, unusual here in NC. Last year farm after farm lost many animals, some their whole herds to cocci and barberpole. Many of these farms had NEVER had any cocci or parasite issues... the conditions were just prime though.  It was devastating to see, immaculate clean, well cared for animals and some still lost kids. 

We run fecals ourselves and do the McMasters Method... so we keep on top of things. I just want to get info from others about different management styles in case we need to do something different.

We don't use and medicated feed for our chickens... we have 300.
we have raised over 1000. We simply have never needed to use it.

Like many that prefer to not give anything med-wise there is always that fine line.... we had a goat with Listeria this year. Anti-biotics had to be given at high enough doses to cross the blood/brain barrier. A lot went into saving an infertile Nigerian pet.  The lil' brat will live here forever, I don't regret saving her... but I wouldn't do it again. She will not ever go in the freezer but will remain the little diva she is.. with a slight wobble. LOL


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## Sweetened (Dec 20, 2013)

Thanks 20kids.  Sometimes when I try to share an alternative point of view I inadvertently stomp on toes because I didn't come across as as objective as I was trying to be.  I like the concept of Monensin, I'll have a look at it so I can understand it a little more (even though it's probable I won't add it to my regimen).  Cocci exists naturally, in many different animals, it's when it becomes overabundant that it's an issue.  I find medicated feed that eliminates it altogether problematic because, no matter what, it'll be picked back up and without anything to keep it in check (beneficial flora and bacteria, not built up due to nonexposure) it'll run rampant (my experience with the medicated chicks).

Southern, I do agree with you.  I manage in an organic, natural fashion.  I treat my animals how and with what I treat myself.  I believe there's a certain purpose and point to antibiotics and so on: emergency medicine.  I'm the kind of person who suffers through pain and grossness until they can't anymore before I turn to something, and I've been snotty nosed, congested chest, graphic other things WITH a migraine getting stuff done without taking anything because I try to give myself a chance to do it on my own.  I caved, that particular day, drugged myself up with tylenol and catnip (kid you not) and went to bed.  In situations where natural management just isn't helping, I'm promptly on top of getting alternative methods and keeping records on it.  I wont allow an animal to suffer.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 20, 2013)




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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Dec 20, 2013)

All I know is that my babies grow MUCH better on it and maintain their condition a lot better! I don't give it to my milkers because I think on the bag it said not for milking goats, I don't remember but I heard somewhere you shouldn't have them on it if your drinking the milk.


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## elevan (Dec 20, 2013)

It's another tool in the toolchest against coccidia.  We used it for quite a while and had no problems with coccidia.  Then when we stopped using it we also had prime conditions for coccidia and started having issues.  Was it that we stopped the treated feed or was it that we were having prime conditions for them that we had a problem?  I don't know the exact answer but it is suspect imo.


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