# Selenium Deficiency and Worms



## broke down ranch (Aug 28, 2009)

A neighbor of mine was recently told by the vet that her doeling (approximately 7 months old) has white muscle disease brought on by worms. She was then told to worm the goat and give a B complex shot. After she called to tell me what was going on I did some Googling and everything I read says white muscle disease is caused by a selenium/vit E deficiency. She is still waiting on the blood test results....is central Texas considered deficient on selenium?

Does anyone know anything about this condition?


----------



## helmstead (Aug 28, 2009)

That's rediculous!

You are correct, WMD is caused by selenium deficiency.  

I am not sure about TX, I would contact a local breeder who also shows (ie someone who would be on top of bolusing) to find out about needs in your area.  Here, we do BoSe about quarterly or less depending on individual needs and ALL kids get 1/4 cc at birth.  Does also get their dose 30 days before kidding.

Now there have been studies that link lack of resistance to worms to copper and selenium deficiency...and it would make sense that a worm load could interfere with absorbtion of vitamins and minerals and LEAD to deficiency...but one doesn't cause the other.


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 28, 2009)

Yes, white muscle is a selenium/vit e deficiency.  It's not something I'd ever really consider to be "brought on" by worms, but if a parasite load had altered the pH of the GI significantly enough to prevent selenium/e absorption, which in turn brought the blood Se levels to critically low levels.....it would be hard to argue the logic.

Or, the vet could have confused anemia with white muscle....who knows?

It's impossible for us to know with so little info, but there's one thing about the whole deal that I find interesting.....the vet _did_ order a blood test.  

If a blood test was ordered and the words "white muscle disease" were mentioned, then it's not unlikely that the vet is checking blood Se levels..  I mean, if it was just worms and anemia, they shouldn't have needed a blood test to know it..  A fecal, sure, and a check of the membranes....but a blood test?  

That said, if the vet indeed made the connection from worms to Se deficiency to white muscle based on the presentation of white muscle symptoms and that turns out to be _correct_ based on a blood Se level, then I'd say they've got some serious chops when it comes to treating goats.

If, on the other hand, the vet confused anemia with white muscle, thinking the "white" part referrenced low platelets or red blood cells or something and ordered a CBC...well, that doesn't bode well for a goat vet.

I hope you're able to keep us updated!



btw...I don't think Texas is Selenium deficient .  The plot thickens!


----------



## lilhill (Aug 28, 2009)

Here's a more recent map.  Seems it depends on what county you live in.

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/se/usa.html


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 28, 2009)

*NICE.*

Totally bookmarking that.


----------



## helmstead (Aug 28, 2009)

Just a little food for thought to add to the selenium maps - selenium absorption is affected by available zinc, vit c and heavy metals.  So, lets say _your_ soil has ok levels...but your hay is cut in another area with low levels, or in an area with high zinc or heavy metals..well...you're going to have absorption issues.  Or even your own grass/browse is high in available zinc, etc...

All of the factors behind it can make you go 

I would bet cmjust0 is on the right track when he says the vet might have confused WMD with white membranes from anemia...that was my gut feeling, too...


----------



## lilhill (Aug 28, 2009)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Just a little food for thought to add to the selenium maps - selenium absorption is affected by available zinc, vit c and heavy metals.  So, lets say _your_ soil has ok levels...but your hay is cut in another area with low levels, or in an area with high zinc or heavy metals..well...you're going to have absorption issues.  Or even your own grass/browse is high in available zinc, etc...


Yep, that drives me bonkers, too.


----------



## broke down ranch (Aug 28, 2009)

OK, for my county it says the SE content is:

0.42+/-0.14ppm

What exactly does that mean?


----------



## Beekissed (Aug 28, 2009)

I've been adding BOSS to my sheep's feed.  They say they are high in selenium....can they get too much of a good thing?


----------



## broke down ranch (Aug 28, 2009)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> I've been adding BOSS to my sheep's feed.  They say they are high in selenium....can they get too much of a good thing?


Yes, I have read there is a fine line between selenium being beneficial and being toxic....


----------



## helmstead (Aug 28, 2009)

broke down ranch said:
			
		

> OK, for my county it says the SE content is:
> 
> 0.42+/-0.14ppm
> 
> What exactly does that mean?


This means that your soil averages between .56 and .28 ppm selenium, which does not really say much because that doesn't necessarily translate into available selenium...  See?


----------



## broke down ranch (Aug 29, 2009)

Is there a way to test the soil for selenium? I mean, as a gardener I can get a basic test kit to test for PH levels and such - is there something like that available for selenium content?


----------



## helmstead (Aug 29, 2009)

I don't know about a home test kit like we have for our gardens, but I _think_ the County Extension will do it.  Worth a phone call anyway.  It would also be good to check zinc, copper, magnesium, etc.

Still, better to test your animals than your soil...because of all the factors - except for copper unless you want to do a liver biposy.


----------



## kimmyh (Sep 4, 2009)

The map is fun to look at but totally useless IMO, because where you live, and where your hay and grains are grown are often totally different. Hay fields that have been worked for years, are terribly deficient, as are grain fields. The Federal government will NOT allow farmers to add sufficent levels to their fields to correct selenium deficencies.


----------



## cmjust0 (Sep 4, 2009)

Good point, Kimmy..  

I try to buy my hay locally, just for that reason..  While I may not be able to pin the actual levels of this and that down very well at all, I will at least know that it's not going to be _high_ in Zinc, Copper, or Selenium if it's grown locally, and can proceed accordingly.

If I were to feed trucked-in North Dakota hay all winter then hit everybody with a few MLs of Bo-Se come spring, though...well, I still doubt it would be a problem, but it does create yet another variable I don't need.


----------



## savingdogs (Oct 1, 2009)

So now I'm totally confused. Between where the hay is grown and where you live, how in the heck do you know when to give Bose. And do you have to get it from the veterinarian or can you buy it at the feed store? 

I liked the county-by-county map but don't know how to translate that into how much selenium my goats need. Can someone make it more simple for me? I have babies, 5 month old mini nubians. They were given some BoSe before we bought them but I'm not sure when they will need more. 

There is not a more natural way to feed selenium? This sounds so artificial.


----------



## lilhill (Oct 2, 2009)

The BoSe is an RX item.


----------



## ksalvagno (Oct 2, 2009)

You have to have your water, hay, feed and pasture tested. That would be the proper way to do it. The other way would be to have blood drawn on all your animals and have it tested. Then if they are low on selenium, you give the individual goats a shot. 

I really don't know anyone who does the blood tests to check selenium levels. It gets expensive and would have to be done every month if you would be doing it properly. Honestly I wouldn't recommend that route.

I would find out from local goat farms what they do with Bose. You will eventually see what works for your farm. If you buy hay from another state, then have it tested.


----------



## kimmyh (Oct 2, 2009)

Call your vet, he/she can advise you on conditions specific to your area. As to Selenium and worms, a deficient goat is more quickly ravaged by parasites.


----------

