# Hoppy Hoppers rabbitry updates



## 16029 (Feb 22, 2018)

Hatties Hoppy Hoppers journal.
 Currently I raise Mini Rex, Meat rabbits, "my does are NZW and buck is a Californian" and I have some lionheads. I started showing Mini Rex as of Oct 2017. 
Right now I have a litter of 7 and a half week old mini rexes and a litter of 6 week olds. I'll have to post some pict of them. It the older litter there are 3 broken blacks and 2 Charlie's. The younger litter has 3 black, 2 REW and a broken blue Charlie.
 I am expecting my NZW doe to have her first litter tonight so we will see how she does.
Within the next 3 and a half weeks I should have 7 mini Rex, 1 lionhead and 3 NZ litters born.


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## 16029 (Feb 26, 2018)

Sorry it took so long for a update. Sunday my NZW doe had a litter of 8. They all are doing great. White King the mom pulled plenty of fur for them.


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## 16029 (Mar 7, 2018)

Sorry to say 3 of the NZ babies crawled out of the nest box and died. Another NZW doe had a litter of 6. 
Last night my broken black otter mini rex had a litter of 6. I was surprised by the colors. She had 3 broken blacks, 1 black and 2 REW. I have no idea where they came from. None of the parents of their pedigrees had REW anywhere.


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## Dani4Hedgies (Mar 7, 2018)

pretty babies


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## 16029 (Mar 7, 2018)

Thanks


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## promiseacres (Mar 7, 2018)

REW can hide for generations! So yes it can pop up almost out of no where.
I love pedigrees that actually show genotypes. Gives a better idea of "suprises".
Congratulations on your litter.


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## Tale of Tails Rabbitry (Mar 7, 2018)

Hatties Hoppers said:


> Last night my broken black otter mini rex had a litter of 6. I was surprised by the colors. She had 3 broken blacks, 1 black and 2 REW. I have no idea where they came from. None of the parents of their pedigrees had REW anywhere.



I like pedigrees with _known _genotypes and I do mine that way, but as @promiseacres suggested, REW being a recessive gene, you would not see one until you bred two that had it even if you could not see it. By crossing with a NZW, I recently found chinchilla in my Blue Silver Fox doe...had no idea and it really should not be there, but there it is. I might have seen it before in brokens or one self chin offspring over a year ago, but we were just doing meat rabbits and I was not into genetics at the time, so I did not "see" it before.  

Just got to love rabbit genetics!


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## 16029 (Mar 7, 2018)

Definitely!
 I got them out to take pictures of them and the black is actually a black otter.


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## Tale of Tails Rabbitry (Mar 7, 2018)

I agree that none of them will be REWs. I made a mistake in thinking two I had were otters recently and they actually were a chestnut and a chinchilla, but at least yours came from an otter. Still, be patient and give it some time. They need to get their fur in. I have decided that I will wait until their eyes are open before I try to figure out their phenotypes.


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## 16029 (Mar 7, 2018)

The first picture is of one of the New Zealand babies from the older litter. Second picture is from the younger litter. The younger litter defiantly caught up in size.


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## 16029 (Mar 12, 2018)

It turns out the 2 mystery bunnies in the mini Rex litters are torts. I am hoping some of the brokens turn out to be broken black otters like their mom. 
Right now I am waiting on a chocolate doe to have babies. When I bought her and her sister I was told they both had one litter but didn't take care of them. So I can't wait for her to have babies. At least she pulled fur and made a nest. Before she never even did that.


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## 16029 (Mar 13, 2018)

Yesterday a chocolate doe had a litter of 4. 


 

Here's updated pictures of the broken black otters litter.


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## Tale of Tails Rabbitry (Mar 13, 2018)

Congrats!

Still learning, but the brokens do not look like otters to me. One of the torts do though. What is their sire?


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## Bunnylady (Mar 13, 2018)

Tale of Tails Rabbitry said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Still learning, but the brokens do not look like otters to me. One of the torts do though. What is their sire?



I was thinking the same thing - that the one on the right  looks like a torted otter.


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## 16029 (Mar 13, 2018)

I am New to torts. Can u have a otter tort? I was wondering why the one had black ears and the other don't. 
About the broken black otter. I was meaning the mom. She is the broken black otter. Sorry for the confusion. Lol.
Their sire is a black.


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## 16029 (Mar 13, 2018)

What would the parents geno type look like cause they carry torts? I am new to them. And how would u show the otter on the sires geno type?


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## Bunnylady (Mar 13, 2018)

Sire:
aaB_C_D_Eeenen

Dam:
ataB_C_D_EeEnen

Torted otter:
ataB_C_D_eeenen
The sire doesn't carry otter [tan pattern (at)], the dam carries self (a).


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## 16029 (Mar 13, 2018)

I though both parents have to carry it inorder for the babies to get it?





Bunnylady said:


> Sire:
> aaB_C_D_Eeenen
> 
> Dam:
> ...


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## 16029 (Mar 13, 2018)

So for a broken blue Charlie doe that threw rew babies it would look like this for her? aaB_CcddEnEn?


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## Bunnylady (Mar 13, 2018)

Hatties Hoppers said:


> So for a broken blue Charlie doe that threw rew babies it would look like this for her? aaB_CcddEnEn?



aaB_CcddE_EnEn

There are three possibilities in the A series:

A - agouti pattern
at - tan pattern
a - self pattern

Agouti is the most dominant, self the most recessive. Tan is dominant to self, and recessive to agouti. You will see the most dominant pattern that an animal has inherited. Your buck is a self, so he has to be aa.


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## 16029 (Mar 13, 2018)

Ok sort of got it.





Bunnylady said:


> aaB_CcddE_EnEn
> 
> There are three possibilities in the A series:
> 
> ...


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## Tale of Tails Rabbitry (Mar 13, 2018)

Hatties Hoppers said:


> I am hoping some of the brokens turn out to be broken black otters like their mom.



I was responding to this, because none of the brokens looked like otters, lacking white inside of the ears. I believe they would be have to be selfs with the broken gene:
aa B_ C_ D_ E_ Enen

But I am still learning too, so maybe @Bunnylady will correct me, if I am wrong on this.

I am also curious about what your chocolate doe threw. Was this from the same buck? They all look black to me so if from the same buck, it would seem he likely does not carry chocolate but all these kits would.


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## 16029 (Mar 16, 2018)

@Tail of Tails Rabbitry. From what it looks like there are 3 black and 1 tort (I think) in the chocolate does litter. 
 

And in the litter from Starlight. The broken black otter. Her babies are doing great and are gorgous.


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## Tale of Tails Rabbitry (Mar 16, 2018)

Thanks. 

Both litters look like variations of blacks to me, so if the sire is the same for both he is likely not carrying chocolate and is probably BB. I would not assume that as a certainty with only one breeding to a chocolate, but I would think it is highly likely unless another breeding proves otherwise.


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## 16029 (Mar 16, 2018)

Yep. Same sire.


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## 16029 (Mar 16, 2018)

I also have a litter of 6 black babies from a blue doe  that are a day old and a litter of 3 from a black doe that are a day old. Both litters are from him.
What exactly does it mean for the litter of 6 black babies from a blue doe? Can u not get blue babies from a black / blue breeding?


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## promiseacres (Mar 16, 2018)

Hatties Hoppers said:


> I also have a litter of 6 black babies from a blue doe  that are a day old and a litter of 3 from a black doe that are a day old. Both litters are from him.
> What exactly does it mean for the litter of 6 black babies from a blue doe? Can u not get blue babies from a black / blue breeding?


Black is aa B- C- D
Blue is aa B- C- dd
different genes  to get black vs blue, so blues are only possible if the black is aaB-C-Dd (it carries dilute)


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## 16029 (Mar 16, 2018)

@promiseacres. So from my broken blue doe I got a broken blue. So that means the buck is aaB_CcDdE_enen. He carries rew


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## promiseacres (Mar 17, 2018)

Hatties Hoppers said:


> @promiseacres. So from my broken blue doe I got a broken blue. So that means the buck is aaB_CcDdE_enen. He carries rew


Same buck I assume. So yes that looks right. TheNatureTrail.com is a good site with good genetics information.


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## Bunnylady (Mar 17, 2018)

Hatties Hoppers said:


> What exactly does it mean for the litter of 6 black babies from a blue doe?



It means you flipped a coin 6 times, and got "tails" all 6 times. That's all. Though the odds with a heterozygote (an animal with two different alleles, rather than two of the same) are 50/50, a sample group as small as one litter or even the entire lifetime production of a single pair is really too small for the results to be significant. You can get results widely skewed from 50/50, and it's still "normal."

I had a REW Holland Lop doe that I bred with a Smoke Pearl buck. In their first two litters, I got REW's and Smoke Pearls. In their 3rd litter, there were a couple of Broken Smoke Pearls, and for a bit, I thought I might have bred her with another buck. Then I remembered that her sire was a Broken Tort, so obviously, she was a Broken, too. It's quite likely that some of her REW offspring were also Broken, I just couldn't see it. Since that pair only produced REW's, Smoke Pearls, and Broken Smoke Pearls, the doe probably was homozygous for dilute (dd), but I couldn't be absolutely sure about that . . . sometimes you have to flip the coin a bunch of times before you get a different result.

(And sometimes, not so much. I once owned a Sable Point Marten Netherland Dwarf that had popped out of a long line of Chestnuts. The owner was like, "what the heck is that??" They didn't even know what to call it! That's, what, 3 sets of recessives that that they didn't know were there that came together all at once?)


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## Tale of Tails Rabbitry (Mar 17, 2018)

Hatties Hoppers said:


> @promiseacres. So from my broken blue doe I got a broken blue. So that means the buck is aaB_CcDdE_enen. He carries rew



Actually, I think your buck has to be: aa B(B?) Cc Dd E*e *enen -- Because you also got torts.


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## 16029 (Mar 17, 2018)

Ok. Great. thanks


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## 16029 (Mar 18, 2018)

Last night I lost the little black otter from starlight litter. He apparently jumped ship (nest box) and froze. They were just going on 11 days old. That was really disappointing. All the others are doing great.


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## 16029 (Mar 30, 2018)

Starlights litter is doing great. I lost one of the torts but the rest all are great. There are 2 broken black does and 1 broken black buck. The tort is a buck. 
View attachment 46042 
Bonita my chocolate doe is fostering 3 babies because their mom died a few days ago. They are much smaller but are doing good.View attachment 46043  I am not sure what he three black ones are yet but the tort in the other litter is a doe. There are 2 black bucks and a black doe. I am new to torts. Could anyone tell me how this torts colors look? View attachment 46044  A first time momma had a litter of 6 today. She sure didnt pull a lot of fur and she didn't clean them up that great but they are doing good so far.View attachment 46045 
Well that's it so far. All the babies are cute as ever.


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