# Nasty coughing...



## RabbleRoost Farm (May 27, 2011)

They came from the breeder like this, and so far it hasn't spread which I'm thankful for. Yay for not having a quarantine pen...  NOT.

I don't have a vet anywhere that can be of any help, so I'm stuck doing this on my own. They cough frequently and it seemed as if much of his herd had a cough too but I wasn't around long enough to notice anything out of the ordinary, I mean... goats cough, right?
Well now I'm a bit more worried, they sound like they have phlegm rattling around in their lungs or something. They sneeze sometimes too.

Is it a cold, pneumonia? Will it go away on its own or am I going to have to try and find penicillin or something? I can give shots (SQ in the armpit flap of skin or IM pretty much anywhere, though usually in the butt muscle {yes I know, not the smart thing to do to the biggest piece of meat on a meat goat, but I'm not worried about it, I doubt I'm going to eat my Fullbloods}), so that isn't an issue. But maybe getting something to treat them with will be?

Edit: Usually when they cough it's a sort of spasm - I think that's how I want to describe it. Multiple times in a row.
They sound like I did recently with my own nasty cold. :/


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## 20kidsonhill (May 27, 2011)

Take tempurature, If it is above normal treat with Penn G at the rate  of 1cc per 15lbs for 5 to 7 days.

Consider lung worms and treat for those, They can cause a nasty cough. 

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/lungworms.html

consider CL in their lungs, this can spread like wild fire through a herd.


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## RabbleRoost Farm (May 27, 2011)

They were both given 1.5 cc injectable ivermectin orally on May 10th, and even though I only treated once (to prevent them from picking up any stray lice off of one buckling until he had no more visible eggs) wouldn't there have been some signs of improvement?

Gah, all these things animal raisers have to contend with... I've never even heard of CL in the lungs, and I feel that I've read and researched a lot. :/
Hit them with more ivermectin you think?

I'll have to see how getting a temperature goes... They haven't been acting funny other than the cough really, and if anything I think it may be caused by the fact that they practically don't care about being wet.. Weirdest goats ever.
They seem to stay out in more damp than I'd like for sure, so that's why I was wondering (not that everyone is a vet or anything) what you guys thought.
Thanks for the help!
I'll admit I hadn't thought of lungworms. I'd assume that would infect the whole herd right? *sigh*
Everyone was treated twice as prevention for lice when the one buckling to go off the farm brought them back, and the offending boy treated three times. The new ones only got ivermectin once because the bugs cleared up and I didn't feel they were in danger of getting any.

(slap me if I talk too much, or even go in circles!   )


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## Roll farms (May 27, 2011)

Lungworms need to be treated w/ an injection of ivermectin (1cc per 110# of goat).
You treat stomach worms by giving it orally...to kill lungworm, it needs to enter the bloodstream.

eta:  According to my vet, lungworm left untreated for a while can leave scar tissue / cause them to easily catch resp. infections / leave a lingering chronic cough.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 28, 2011)

I don't think it is normal for them to have a frequent cough, Lambs can seem to cough a quit a bit, but I rarely have a goat coughing.  I would treat for lung worms.  Although, keep in mind, I don't beleive I have ever had lung worms in the my goats. I just know it is one reason for several goats in a herd to have a chronic cough with no fever.  

Not sure of the treatment off the top of my head,  I remember it is ivermectin like Roll said, injected, but I beleive there is more than one treatment of ivermectin involved, Maybe one a week for 3 weeks, Sorry, can't remember. 

going camping for the next couple days. HOpe you get that cough under control.


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## elevan (May 28, 2011)

A repeat dosing 2 weeks later is recommended on the Ivomec for lungworms as it's not always effective in killing during that larvae during early stages.


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## Goatmasta (May 28, 2011)

Just wondering how they found alcohol in my system through a blood test.  I wasn't injecting it.
  It's 1cc injectable/22-35lbs.


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## elevan (May 28, 2011)

Goats metabolize meds at a higher rate and so a lot of what goes into the stomach doesn't make it to the bloodstream before it's out of the system.  If you want the maximum effect you got to inject it.

Oh and by the way...in case you didn't know...injecting Ivomec burns / is painful and the goat is gonna be a little "weird" about it.  Don't think that they are having a seizure or anything it's just a pain reaction.


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## Roll farms (May 29, 2011)

When injecting the dosage is 1cc per 110#.  Orally you give much higher doses.


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## helmstead (May 29, 2011)

Sorry, but that's incorrect info.  We have cleared up a confirmed case of lungworm with ORAL medications.  _When dosed properly_, despite the high metabolism, the appropriate amount does, in fact, enter the bloodstream.  There is NO NEED to ever inject a dewormer unless you just like needles.

The 1 cc per 110 lbs is an incorrect dose.  Too low no matter what parasite you're after.

Lungworm treatment is 1% ivermec 1 cc per 22 lbs orally (you will find sites listing treatment up to 1 cc per 50 lbs, but it's better to overdose than underdose) OR valbazen at 1 cc per 10 lbs OR levamisole injectable at 3 cc per 100 lbs (more side effects are possible and be careful not to overdose this one).

You must dose this every 10 days for 4 treatments.

Be aware that with lungworm, there is some temporary damage to the lungs and the cough doesn't magically go away.  It takes time.

Lungworm is NOT that common.  In all the goats we've owned, we've only had one confirmed case.


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## rockdoveranch (May 29, 2011)

This is a link to the University of Maryland Extension site that lists 
Anthelmintics and doses Commonly Used to Control Parasites in Small Ruminants.  

I have found it very helpful over the years.

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/antheltable.html


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## helmstead (May 29, 2011)

rockdoveranch said:
			
		

> This is a link to the University of Maryland Extension site that lists
> Anthelmintics and doses Commonly Used to Control Parasites in Small Ruminants.
> 
> I have found it very helpful over the years.
> ...


All that does is list the manufacturer's suggested doses, which PRODUCERS have found, oft, to be ineffective through actual use and fecal sampling.


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## elevan (May 29, 2011)

All farms - all regions - have a different resistance level to drugs.  A farm in Indiana might have a worm resistant to a specific dewormer that is still quite effective in Texas.  We all need to remember that.

And I agree Lungworms are not that common of a problem.


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## Roll farms (May 29, 2011)

The ONE confirmed case we've had of lungworm...Didn't clear up w/ oral cydectin or ivomec.  But 3 injections of ivo at the rate stated (suggested by our vet) did clear her up.  She did have scar tissue / cough for the entire rest of her time here, but the Bearman (sp?) fecals showed fewer ea. time of treatment and the cough was much less pronounced.

Incorrect info or not, injecting it worked for her....but the best route is to work w/ a vet to try and clear it up / verify it IS lungworm.  And make sure they know what kind of fecal to run...and follow up to see if the treatment is working.

I've had a couple others w/ coughs similar to Bre's who I've treated the same at the first sing of a cough, who've cleared up much quicker.

Maybe I just got lucky...


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## Goatmasta (May 29, 2011)

I will only say that every vet I have every used (many) have all admitted they have less than a day in school on goats.  The best vet I every had admitted that I knew 10x more about goat health than he did.  I don't trust my goats to a vet and the vet only.  The truth is that they are not very knowledgeable about goats.


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## elevan (May 29, 2011)

That's why you need to do your due diligence in finding a vet.  My vet HAS goats, so I trust them.  Large livestock vets CHOOSE to take extra courses or apprentice under another large livestock vet.  They get paid less than small animal vets and so are becoming a dying breed so to speak.


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## rockdoveranch (May 29, 2011)

We live in a county of only 18,000 people and there are 5 vet clinics all of which do large and small animals.  I had a vet once tell me that the best thing I was going to get from my visit with him with a lamb was the names and phone numbers of people in the surrounding counties that owned sheep and goats.  He advised me to start networking with these people and others who have sheep to get the best possible advice on sheep health as he knew nothing about sheep.

We were there because a lamb was limping.  At the time I did not know they had scent grands between their claws.  The vet did not know that either.  Turns out the treatment he gave us was correct for an infected scent gland.

This same vet is the only vet in his county and our surrounding counties that has rattlesnake anti-venom.  An important thing for us rural folk to know.  

A good vet is one who tells you up front he knows nothing about sheep and goats and can direct you to people who do.

We have a new vet clinic in the county and the staff tells me they know sheep and goats.  I will ask a lot of questions at our next dog visit.

I also believe you can get great advice from rural feed store owners.


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