# feeding = wasting food



## debic (Jan 24, 2011)

Hi,

I'm new to this forum but would like some advise for my small goat herd.  We have the "land of misfit toys" for goats, two crosses and two la mancha's.  We use them to eat the under brush for fire protection. 

We feed them 2x daily.  We feed them alfalfa or alfalfa grass mix...they seem to waste most of it. They don't eat the stems often and they end up walking on it. they pull it out of the feeders and put it on the ground and then walk on it, poop on it and then won't eat it.  

I'm tired of wasting hay.  Is there a better way? is there a better food solution??

Thanks in advance.


----------



## glenolam (Jan 24, 2011)

Do you have wethers, does or bucks?  How old are they all?

What kind of hay feeder do you have?

Honestly, they'll always waste hay unless you only give them a little bit at a time which, in my opinion, is a big PITA.


----------



## julieq (Jan 24, 2011)

Even if one uses hay feeders, goats still don't eat all the stems.  Ours are very picky.  We feed alfalfa hay free choice and just clean up the stems and hay the goats refuse and feed it to our horses.


----------



## debic (Jan 24, 2011)

I wish I had someone else to feed the waste too but I don't....it ends up going into my compost pile.  :-(


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 24, 2011)

At $10-$13 per bale here, we don't give ours a choice about wasting the alfalfa.  They have access 24/7 to a round bale of grass hay which they can waste to their hearts' content and I feed the alfalfa hay twice daily in a small enough quantity that they scarf it as quickly as possible before their neighbor gets it.  I feed as much as they'll eat without wasting all the stems.  They're goats, so they still waste some, but it really cuts down.  

My late gestation/lactating does also get alfalfa pellets with their grain.  Pound for pound the pellets and the hay are basically the same price here.  They NEVER waste the pellets!


----------



## glenolam (Jan 24, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> My late gestation/lactating does also get alfalfa pellets with their grain.  Pound for pound the pellets and the hay are basically the same price here.  They NEVER waste the pellets!


x2


----------



## debic (Jan 24, 2011)

that's what I was wondering...if I would be better off buying and feeding pellets......


----------



## jodief100 (Jan 24, 2011)

They still need some hay even if they are getting pellets.  The long fibrous material works the rumen keeping it healthy and keeps them warm in the winter months.  

I feed mixed grass and suppliment with alfalfa pellets.  I don't bother putting straw down because all the waste hay then turns into bedding.


----------



## helmstead (Jan 24, 2011)

Just remember the pellets are no substitute for long stem forage - consider them a supplement.  You have to figure out how many lbs of alfalfa hay they would need, and give that many lbs of pellet.

Hay waste is one thing you can count on with goats.


----------



## debic (Jan 24, 2011)

Oh ok....why do they need the long stems??


----------



## helmstead (Jan 24, 2011)

It's crucial for proper digestion.


----------



## debic (Jan 24, 2011)

Ok...good to know.  Thanks!!


----------



## freemotion (Jan 24, 2011)

Wasted hay = free bedding.  Well, expensive bedding, sometimes, but hay and straw are about the same price here.  Let them sleep in it for a while before it goes to the compost pile, so you get more use out of it.  

There are some hay feeder threads around here somewhere.  I find that I need to use different feeders for different types of hay to reduce waste.  Standard hay rack with boards for very coarse hay, feeders made with wire fencing with 2x4" openings for most second cut, and now I have homemade hay bags with small openings for some very small third cut that just runs right through the other two feeders.  A lot of trouble, yes, but it saves me a lot of hay.  Hay is precious here and good second cut can be very hard to find.


----------



## debic (Jan 24, 2011)

thanks for the info....appreciate it very much!!





			
				freemotion said:
			
		

> Wasted hay = free bedding.  Well, expensive bedding, sometimes, but hay and straw are about the same price here.  Let them sleep in it for a while before it goes to the compost pile, so you get more use out of it.
> 
> There are some hay feeder threads around here somewhere.  I find that I need to use different feeders for different types of hay to reduce waste.  Standard hay rack with boards for very coarse hay, feeders made with wire fencing with 2x4" openings for most second cut, and now I have homemade hay bags with small openings for some very small third cut that just runs right through the other two feeders.  A lot of trouble, yes, but it saves me a lot of hay.  Hay is precious here and good second cut can be very hard to find.


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 25, 2011)

Right- the pellets aren't a substitute for the hay they have available free choice.  I just couldn't possibly afford to feed square bales of alfalfa free choice here!  I supplement with the pellets in addition to free choice grass hay and limited quantities of straight alfalfa hay just to be sure my girls are getting enough.  But you do want to make sure they always have some type of good hay available at all times.


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 25, 2011)

To put it very simply, their rumens need roughage to function.  Sort of like a car will run w/out oil, but not well or for long.
If they're only given pellets, the rumen can shut down.

We use hay feeders w/ 4"x4" holes, they have to work harder to get it, so not as much lands on the ground...and we put out only what they can eat 2-3x a day rather than free choice.


----------



## Ariel72 (Jan 25, 2011)

If the goats are used to eat brush for fire protection, is it possible they are getting enough roughage without free choice hay?  Maybe just a limited amount in the morning and evening to round out their diet?  I apologize for the newbie question, but unless they are lactating does, maybe they don't need all the alfalfa.


----------



## Lady Jane (Jan 26, 2011)

I was having trouble finding a thread about types of hay feeders, so I will post my question here. 

What type of hay feeders work best and have the least amount of hay wasting? I was thinking of building something with a trench under the hay rack area. Does that work well? Or maybe a hay rack with small holes as someone else mentioned here? If any wants to put up photos of their hay racks for examples that would be awesome.


----------



## freemotion (Jan 26, 2011)

Here are mine:  http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3755

I don't have pics of the current hay bags but could post if anyone wants to see how I made them.


----------



## bettybohemian (Jan 26, 2011)

julieq said:
			
		

> Even if one uses hay feeders, goats still don't eat all the stems.  Ours are very picky.  We feed alfalfa hay free choice and just clean up the stems and hay the goats refuse and feed it to our horses.


LOL I do the same thing except I feed the stems to the rabbits and the worm bins so to me, its not actually wasted just fed to someone else. So- buys some rabbits and worms. ..or a horse.... and then there's now waste! Lol


----------



## debic (Jan 26, 2011)

worms??  don't want rabbits or horses......



			
				bettybohemian said:
			
		

> julieq said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## bettybohemian (Jan 26, 2011)

Yes,worms. I do vermicomposting. Red wiggler worms kept in a bin eat the old hay, goat poop and vehicle scraps and turn it into soil amendment.  Recycling at its finest


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 26, 2011)

I also do vermicomposting.  They turn waste hay and goat poop into the most beautiful black castings!


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jan 26, 2011)

We feed twice a day and only put out what they clean up before the next feeding, If I start seeing the hay being played with instead of eaten, I cut back and if It is gone within 3 or 4 hours I add more. 

Our 18 very large does are eating around a bale and a half a day of 2nd cutting good quality grass mix hay. around 45 to 50 lb bales. We don't feed any alfalfa or very little added protein until right before kidding(a couple weeks). 

We keep out loose goat mineral free-choice year round. 

When the pasture comes up that is all they get. Unless they are lactating, then they get around 1 1/2 lbs of 17% goat grower pellets. But we mostly kid December to Febuary. 

This is for adult goats over 15months, OUr younger animals are on 17 %goat developer.


----------



## debic (Jan 26, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> We feed twice a day and only put out what they clean up before the next feeding, If I start seeing the hay being played with instead of eaten, I cut back and if It is gone within 3 or 4 hours I add more.
> 
> Our 18 very large does are eating around a bale and a half a day of 2nd cutting good quality grass mix hay. around 45 to 50 lb bales. We don't feed any alfalfa or very little added protein until right before kidding(a couple weeks).
> 
> ...


should I not feed alfalfa at all??  is that part of the problem??

I have 3 boys and a one female.....none used for anything other then pets, fire protection and dog training. they help to train my lgd puppies.....


----------



## debic (Jan 26, 2011)

bettybohemian said:
			
		

> Yes,worms. I do vermicomposting. Red wiggler worms kept in a bin eat the old hay, goat poop and vehicle scraps and turn it into soil amendment.  Recycling at its finest


what a great idea....I might have to look into that....is it expensive??


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 26, 2011)

The vermicomposting I do is directly in a raised bed outdoors.  Of course when the ground is frozen they aren't active, but even when it's been in the low 40's here after a few weeks of seriously cold weather I can find them in the top 4 inches of compost.  The thick layer and heat from the compost keeps them toasty warm.  

I didn't even order red wrigglers- just keeping conditions right means that 100's of our native worms inhabit our raised bed.  They really speed up composting time on the coarser stuff and the castings are as dark and fluffy as can be.

My mom has used red wrigglers to varying degrees of success.  Here in the South the key seems to be not letting them get too hot if the bins are outdoors, even in full shade.

Edited to add: Our raised beds are built from wood harvested here on the property.  So if you don't count the "sweat equity" our vermicomposting system is FREE.


----------



## bettybohemian (Jan 26, 2011)

debic said:
			
		

> bettybohemian said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not at all. You can use pretty much anything for your bins. I use the large Rubbermaid bins ($10each). The worms themselves are about $20 a lb but if you take care of them right they reproduce rather quickly. Lots of info online. Worth checking out!!!YourLinkGoesHere


----------



## debic (Jan 26, 2011)

bettybohemian said:
			
		

> debic said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks!


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jan 26, 2011)

debic said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just realized you have three males, They probably shouldn't be on alfalfa hay, It is very high in calcium. I would recommend a good quality 2nd cut hay when there is no pature, or year round if you have very little pasture, for very cold weather i would add 1 or 2 lbs of a good pelleted goat feed that contains Ammonia Chloride. And keep out some free-choice loose goat salts year old.


----------

