# 11 month ram butting



## bonbean01 (Dec 9, 2011)

So, here we go again...just the beginning of some light butting from our 11 month old dorper ram.  This time we have done everything by the book in raising him from a 3 month old when we bought him.  I was reading that a halter with "top blinder" helps since they can't see you when they back up and put their heads down for the charge.  If they can't see what they are charging once their head is down, they don't charge?  Anyone know anything about this?  I've looked online and do not see this for sale on any sheep supply sites.


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## 77Herford (Dec 9, 2011)

Livestock Electric prod works nicely.


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## secuono (Dec 10, 2011)

My sheep's wool blocks their line of sight when their heads are down, doesn't stop the charging, just makes them more wary/slow about it. 
Stomping my foot like the horses to also gets them to stop and do something else, lol. My two horses taught me that.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 10, 2011)

Premier sells the shields .  They make one for horned rams and one for polled rams.


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## bonbean01 (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks all!  Will try stomping my foot, although today he is behaving himself, but at least we know to watch him carefully now.  Guess my problem looking for that halter was thinking it was called blinders instead of shield.  My husband is thinking electric prod, but was hoping to use that as a last resort.


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## secuono (Dec 10, 2011)

Well, my horses taught the sheep to back off when they stomp, I just picked it up from them.
I usually use a long stick and whack the charger on the shoulder and that breaks their concentration and they wander off.


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## SheepGirl (Dec 10, 2011)

When my ram looks like he's about to ram into me, I stick my leg straight out or my hand straight out...this confuses him and makes him seem like "what the heck is that?" so he lifts his head back up and comes closer to sniff. It works every time...even a couple times in a row


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## bonbean01 (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks Sheepgirl...I will try that  We did not know what we were doing with our first ram and he got very dangerous, which was our fault for not knowing.  This time we knew better, so when he first started this (gentle, but still...the beginning) we were dismayed.  This ram's sire has never been a problem and we hoped with doing this right and good genes, we could avoid this.  Thanks to all for your input!  Really wish we'd found this forum when we first started out!


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## eweinHiscare (Aug 25, 2012)

bonbean01 said:
			
		

> Thanks Sheepgirl...I will try that  We did not know what we were doing with our first ram and he got very dangerous, which was our fault for not knowing.  This time we knew better, so when he first started this (gentle, but still...the beginning) we were dismayed.  This ram's sire has never been a problem and we hoped with doing this right and good genes, we could avoid this.  Thanks to all for your input!  Really wish we'd found this forum when we first started out!


bonbean,
 I haven a 5 month old ram and so far he has not butted me but he is defending himself from a hornless goat doe who is in the same pasture. 

 I only have her in there for another few weeks until her baby is weaned.  But she seems to be teaching him how to use his head..
Will this make him mean or more aggressive than he otherwise would be ?

He is separated from the ewes now because I am waiting for Sept. to put him in with them for breeding.

I never touch the top of his head or do any rough play with him. 
 All 4 of my sheep were just bought about a month ago and all this is new to me.

How did your first ram get dangerous?  What was the behavior he did ?
I will do what SheepGirl does, stick out a arm or leg if my ram looks like he is going to run at me.


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## bonbean01 (Aug 26, 2012)

Our first ram got dangerous because we were new and stupid to having sheep.  We started with a 4 month old ewe and 4 month old ram.  We were delighted at with our little sheepies and played with them, cuddled them and really enjoyed them.  We thought it was cute when the ram was getting older and playing the head pushing game with us and we pushed back...sigh...totally the wrong thing to do, but seemed harmless and cute at the time.  When he turned 2 it was not so cute and we started reading up on what to do and saw what a mess we'd made of things and tried to correct his behaviour.  Nothing worked and it continued to get worse...long story short...hubby had to have his shin x rayed for a break, and it was not broken, but took forever for the contusion to go down and stop hurting...I was slammed up the side of a large tree and in shock when I fell and lucky I was not alone in there with him as he was backing up to take another run at me while still on the ground winded and not able to move.  So, we had to get rid of him.

Got another young ram and did things the way that we read was correct and talked to other experienced sheep people and found this forum which had lots of good advice.  At 11 months when I first posted this he was just starting to show some butting, but he is now 1 and a half years old and has been a good fellow.  At the moment it is breeding time and we know to respect him while he is in with the ewes and some in heat.  

We limit our time with him and he is happy to have us handle him when we drench him and do his hooves and is happy and flipping his tail when we scratch him under his chin...just don't do it during breeding time at all...he is king of the ewes at the moment and he made some lovely lambs last year.

Good luck with your sheep...you will get more down the road...they are addictive


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## eweinHiscare (Aug 26, 2012)

bonbean,
 thanks for all the description you gave. 
 I'm sorry about you and your husband getting hurt!  That was serious!  

I didn't know they could be that dangerous...I may not have anyone with me when/if my ram decides to butt me. I'm worried now.

It seems that it is better not to handle them at all unless necessary right? 
I will quit petting him then, but this 5 month old ram I have has no fear of human at all, he is pushy and follows me closely when I have the feed bucket for the goats.
He was weaned when I bought him, I don't know if he had been bottle fed, or lambar or left with his mother...if that is critical to know I could call the seller and ask.

If there was another ram with him would the young rams be butting heads already? or is what my goat doing making him do head butting earlier than usual ?

I'm thinking maybe the doe is making him aggressive towards goats ? (Kind of like when you pushed your young ram) 
So far, no one has gotten hurt.
Soon the doe will be back in her own pasture and he will be in with the ewes and that problem solved.

Is ram behavior better if he is left with the ewes all the time or if he is separated most of the year? 


I was told that using a spray bottle of water will make the ram stay away from me.  What would work better than that ?


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## bonbean01 (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes, I would stop petting him, although some scratches under the chin shouldn't hurt.  You don't want him to be pushy with you at all and you'll need to stop that right away.  You are right, not having that much to do with him is better.  I used a water pistol on our current ram when he was young and that did seem to help.   

Also, when you are having lambs, best to have him separate from them with a buddy.  Our first ram (the dangerous one) butted our very first lamb very hard and that's when we learned about that...little lamb was fine, but he could have killed him.  We were behind the learning curve for sure!  Sometimes we learn from the school of hard knocks, but better to research it all first and have a better understanding of whatever livestock you decide to get.

I make it all sound so awful...and yes, a bad ram is dangerous...but we've had sheep now going on 5 years and we love them and enjoy them...just not the ram which is a shame..but that is how that goes.

Good luck...read lots...and you've found a very good forum here.  Really wish we'd known about this place before we started!


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## Dieds (Oct 5, 2012)

Hello everyone, 

My wife and I purchased 2 Harlequin lambs last May, a ram and ewe that were at the time 3 months old. A week or two later we got 2 Baby Doll lambs, also a ram and ewe, but these were both 2 months old. We were new to "farm life" and although we had studied on how to care for the lambs in terms of shots, what diseases to look out for, etc., we didn't really study behavior and of course petted and coddled the lambs. The rams especially were very affectionate and sweet.

Then this past Monday (Oct. 1), the Harlequin ram lamb (now about 8 months old) suddenly got aggressive toward both me and my wife. Now both breeds are miniature sheep, but this ram is close to 100 pounds and very strong. He would approach us, start to bit/nibble our shirt or pants, then push his head against us hard, then rear back and would charge but then stop just before head-butting us.... but it was not fun. 

I didn't want him to "win" and have me be submissive (my wife had already run away a couple times when this first started and when I was not there). The first couple times I got behind him and pinned him to the wall for a few minutes -- then another time I pushed him into a pen by himself. 

Finally, I decided to get an electric prod (cattle prod) from Tractor & Supply. I picked that up Wednesday and wow, it works great! The first time I went into the paddock he as is now usual came up to me and was posturing and being a bully. He started ramming his head against my upper legs and tried to bite, then reared back for a charge. When he approached, I took the prod (it's got a handle, with the batteries, and a shaft of about 20 inches or so) from behind my back and held it in-front of him. He stopped and touched his nose to it -- then ZAP! 

I've never seen him move so fast! The other 3 lambs didn't see what happened and seemed unfazed. Since then I only have to hold the prod. He has a new-found respect for me - and my wife, too, as long as she is carrying it when she is around him. Haven't had to zap him since but one of us always has the prod in hand from now on.


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## Cornish Heritage (Oct 15, 2012)

> It seems that it is better not to handle them at all unless necessary right?


I have to agree. We do not go anywhere near our rams. The only time we touch them is if we are crushing them to reintroduce them to each other after they have been breeding the girls in different pastures. Even then we are just moving them into a pen. The rams do not come near us when we go into their pasture & that is the way we like it. They will follow for a bucket if we need to move them. Then not breeding we keep them in a bottom pasture that we rarely go into. They live with some young steers. When we feed the pigs close by each day we do count heads to make sure they are all there but that is it. 

Been there, done that by being stupid enough to become friendly with a ram. He was very tasty!

Liz


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## bonbean01 (Oct 15, 2012)

LOL Cornish...glad he was tasty 

Our ram Watson was raised right...after our dangerous ram we did this one right...or, so we thought.  Hate to ruffle anyone's feathers on here, but he soon didn't care about the water pistol and we used a BB gun...yup...a few shots in the butt and he saw us differently.  This was during breeding time and I know that a ram is a ram...but you still have to go in to feed and water, drench and do trim feet.  

So...from a distance it must look like I  am Annie Oakley...moving him while caring the BB gun...LOL...but it works for me....I don't need a ram hurting me again...I do a good enough job of that all by myself ...took a bad fall on the dock...so sore and black and blue...just glad no one saw my very unlady like tumble


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## eweinHiscare (Oct 16, 2012)

Bonbean, that is too bad he stopped being deterred by the water pistol.  

 Just this past weekend I squirted my young ram for getting too close to me and it did seem to back him off.
 I have a "space" around me I don't want him to invade...

So now Dieds solution of the cattle prod does not seem too bad.  

They only get stung if they do get too close!

A sting for the ram is way better than a trip to the emergency room ...or even just the bruises.... for the human.

Earlier this month I did have my young ram come up behind me (I wasn't aware of where he was in the pasture while I was picking pears) and he put his head against the back of my legs.
He did not use force or impact but he certainly could have! I also did not have the water spray with me that time.

I grabbed him and layed  him down on his side and held him there until I thought he realized it hadn't been a good idea to come close to me...

I felt sorry for him, especially when his eyes rolled back...like he was thinking "I'm going to die now...", but I hope he doesn't see me as a sheep now or someone to butt.


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## Dieds (Oct 16, 2012)

I've only had to use the cattle prod twice now. I'm not sure what happened (guess he's just growing up/becoming an adult) but it was literally "one day he's the sweet ram lamb, the next the aggressive 'big boy' ram." If me or my wife has it in hand, he looks at it and steers clear. I can even come up to him and sort of loom over him and he stands down. I forgot to take it with me the other day and his evil eyes lit up with glee when he realized I was "unarmed" -- he immediately started pushing his head against me and rearing back, charging forward and so on. I had to tackle him and flip him on his side for a few minutes for that one. 

But when I had it in hand later he really did seem to look at it and something clicked in his little ram brain that this was something he wanted no part of. The shock does seem to be a little stronger than our electric fence but certainly no strong enough to cause any injuries. All I need now is a sword-like sheath because one of us literally has to have it in hand at all times. I would recommend one though for anyone else having this issue.


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## eweinHiscare (Oct 16, 2012)

Dieds your ram sounds like an extremely intelligent and mischevious sheep !
Smart enough to know when you are not carrying the prod!

I'm new to sheep and I had no idea what I was getting into....haha....I thought they were all stupid pushovers.

You also did the pinning on the side thing, I hope that helps too.
But once they are full grown that option is probably not going to help when they are already charging.

About a month ago I had put my young ram in with my almost same age goat buck.
I had to take him out because the ram started pawing and lowering his head and running straight at the little buck and bashing him!

The buck was going to get hurt at that rate, he was no match!
So far the ram has not gone into quite a offense mode at me yet, but I am trying to get him to respect me now.

I hadn't petted him quite so much as you did yours since I only bought him this past summer.


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## bonbean01 (Oct 16, 2012)

The electric prod is a good idea.  We didn't have one, so used the BB gun.  It's a kid's BB gun and not powerful, but he felt it.  Only had to do that twice and now just seeing it or hearing me rattle the BBs in it is good enough.  

The water pistol worked well until he turned over a year old...then I guess he became a big boy ram.  He's gotten pretty big and I know I couldn't flip him on his side.  He is not always a problem, pretty much just during breeding season and we spend as little time with him then as possible...but still...need to feed,water, fluff hay, etc every day.


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## Bossroo (Oct 16, 2012)

The electric prod will work well if administerd on the head or when the sheep body is newly shor n.  It will not work to well or not at all when the sheep has longer wool.  Same with the BB gun... 2 +" of wool will have little effect as the bb shot will not reach the sensitive skin. If one tries to shoot it in the face, one runs the risk of hitting it in an eye.


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## Dieds (Oct 16, 2012)

That is a great point, Bossroo. I actually touched it to his wet nose both times when he was trying to push into me. ZAP!   I figure a zap now and then is better than castration or the dinner plate (for him, anyhow).


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## bonbean01 (Oct 16, 2012)

Yikes!!!!  Would never BB gun his face...ever...just his butt.  We have hair sheep so no wool, but good point that with wool breeds it wouldn't do much.


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