# De-Horning Goats



## stano40 (Dec 13, 2009)

I recently got into goats from my first encounter with a baby Alpine Goat.  This boy was a joy to have and a big love bug.

Since getting him a couple of months ago I also picked up a Nigerian dwarf wether which was also disbuded and a pygmy buck who was supposed to by castrated and dis-budded.

That was a week ago and now I just picked up two female miniature goats.  One looks to be a pygmy and the other looks to be a mix, possibly pygmy/alpine.

Both of these girls have never been dis-budded and have a full set of horns.  They are at lease 2 years old, healthy and energetic.

Can these girls be de-horned?  Would it affect their health?

Thanks

bob


----------



## Cottage Cheese (Dec 13, 2009)

first off,

Congrats on your 2 Pygmies!!! They are true sweethearts. in my opinion, they are too old to be disbudded; it would cause them unnecessary pain. Their horns are a part of the skull, unlike as a kid, just small buds, they are know fully grown, and a true part of their features. They should be fine with your other goats.


----------



## stano40 (Dec 13, 2009)

I am more worried about them hurting the other male goats who have no horns.  

Also The one male pygmy is sniffing around the new females already instead of me for a change.  What shots are recommended for them to have & what type of medication is recommended if needed.

I'm pretty sure none of the goats have ever been vaccinated for anything.

Another question I have is the use of baking soda.  Is this a must to have?

bob


----------



## ksalvagno (Dec 13, 2009)

There are ways to get rid of the horns. I think you can band them and they eventually fall off. There are some others on this forum that could give you a better idea of what to do.

The baking soda is nice to have out. I keep out baking soda all the time. If they get a little tummy upset, they eat the baking soda. From what I have read on some posts on this forum, you don't have to keep out baking soda. It is a choice. My goats eat very little of the baking soda and it makes me feel better that if there is a little upset tummy, it is immediately taken care of.


----------



## stano40 (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks for all this good advise.  I'll have to consider how traumatic removing their horns would be for them since my wife wants to breed them.

I didn't know you could band the horns and i would like to know more about that.

bob


----------



## FarmerChick (Dec 13, 2009)

I owned a few goats without horns many moons ago and they were mixed in with my Boer goats.  Never had a problem with some having horns and a few not.  They survived perfect in the herd.   I always let all goats keep their horns.  I use them as handles..LOL

I have free choice baking soda out also.  Great for bloat control....etc
goats will lick when needed.  they know best


----------



## stano40 (Dec 13, 2009)

I just read about tipping the horns for safety.  Cutting off 1" to avoid bleeding.  Does this do any good?

bob


----------



## Cottage Cheese (Dec 13, 2009)

Bob, there are many people who remove horns, but would you REALLY want to cut off 1'' of some perfectly good horns? It ruins their appearance. This is my opinion only. If a creature has horns, leave them, on lol! The girls should be fine with the buck; personally, I think it is better for the does to have the horns than the boys; its a peace of mind for me.


----------



## Cottage Cheese (Dec 13, 2009)

Oh, CDT is all I am saying!! Get the MUST HAVE shots first, then the other ones later. I do vacc first, then wormer.


----------



## stano40 (Dec 13, 2009)

From reading many posts and different sites for information I think once they have the horns I probably would not remove them.  Only if was detrimental to their well being.  I just read so many people giving advise in removing the horns to prevent accidents and battle damage.

All the questions I'm asking is because I am really new to goat keeping and I want only the best for my babies.

I think though, I would prefer to dis-bud babies and castrate male's that I don't want to be breeders.  I wouldn't personally do it unless I was trained in dis-budding.

We did learn how to trim hooves and the next few days my wife has off we will trim everybody's hooves.  I do have a couple of books but I've found it's great to get first hand knowledge and practical experience from people that keep goats.

Is it best to have them vaccinated by a qualified goat vet or is this something I can do?  

What vaccinations are a must.  I was told rabies is not a big deal to do.  

Do the bucks get different vaccinations than the doe's and is the vaccinations determined by weight?  

bob

PS

Thank You for all this great advise.


----------



## helmstead (Dec 13, 2009)

We dehorn adults using castration bands, and while it's overall not a huge ordeal, it does cause discomfort.  In our situation, it was necessary to reduce torn up fences and reduce the likelyhood of injury.  You do need to have a vet to turn to for pain meds/antibiotics and support.


----------



## Rock Farmer (Dec 13, 2009)

I would not mess with the horns.  They are alive and are full of blood vessels.  I think even if you "tipped" them you would need to have stepic powder to stop the bleeding.  It would NOT be a simple process.  All of my goats have had horns and we have not ever had a problem.  I got poked one day when I had to get a young doe free that was caught in a hay rack.  Nothing serious though.  I had one old doe who would not allow a buck to service her.  Believe me she was using her horns to her advantage.  The buck was never injured, I am sure he was frustrated.  He had a massive set of horns but never used them on the doe, while she would hook him and flip him off of her.  I think there are ball like things you can glue to the ends of the horns, if you have a deranged goat.  I would let the horns ride.  You probably will have no problems with them.  I know that it is not good to breed goats that naturally have horns with goats that naturally do not have horns.  The vaccines are critical though.


----------



## helmstead (Dec 14, 2009)

Rock Farmer said:
			
		

> I know that it is not good to breed goats that naturally have horns with goats that naturally do not have horns.


This is not so.  Breeding polled to horned is great.  Breeding polled to polled increases chances of hermaphrodite offspring by an extra 50% (chance of producing a double copy polled animal which are usually sterile), so that isn't advisable but can still be done successfully.  One in every 4 polled goats, according to online stats I've read, are hermaphrodites.  My polled doe is not .  

Hope I cleared that up.  Going back under my rock now.


----------



## FarmerChick (Dec 14, 2009)

In normal contact with horns you don't get hurt that much at all.

During feeding, bending over to pick up a hoof or something, I have taken horns to the thighs, tummy, and into my face etc. and never was the skin punctured or anything like that.

I got into a massive fight with my monster Boer buck.  He had me pinned against the wall and was "having at me" and he was tough.  His horns nailed me a few times with him twisting his head til I could get my hands on him and fight back....lol....then hubby came running and pulled him off me.  No broken punctures on the skin but I was sore after that battle..LOL

So horns during normal use and contact with goats is not that dangerous seriously.  I have been doing this for over 10-12 years with Boer goats and never a dangerous horn situation.

My 4 year old (almost 5 now) helps with my herd.  I had her down there when younger but she had that unstable kid walk happening and I never wanted her to fall among the herds.   But now she knows to keep an eye out on "where the horns" are and be careful around their heads.


But to keep horns or not to keep horns is the owners decision definitely.


----------



## stano40 (Dec 14, 2009)

Members here are excellent and are providing more information for me to formulate my opinions, including to delve deeper into learning more about goats and their horns.

First starting and even reading a few books on this subject they all highly recommended in getting those horns removed, ASAP.

I know the removal of defensive parts of any animal leaves them vulnerable to predator attack, not to mention sometimes a risk to their health.

It is a decision of the owner to decided horn removal either for the safety or in handling of the animal.  But sometimes you need to see more from experienced people that books don't provide.

I can see both points of this topic and enjoy learning more about this from the members here.

Thanks so much in keeping these responses coming.

bob


----------



## Rock Farmer (Dec 14, 2009)

Thanks helmstead for setting me straight.  I should have looked up that info on polled vs horned breeding before I made that comment.


----------



## MrsCountryChick (Dec 15, 2009)

There are Pros & Cons to any subject.  Some owners like horns, & they work as a radiator cooling the goat in the summer months. They are protection for the animal, ....Unless those same horns have them caught in the fence, then they could be a Total demise of the animal due to a predator. I personally have a doe that I'm soon to band her horns due to them continually growing to her head. We're trimmed them, but want to have them removed now that the weather is cooler. Make sure you Give CDT vaccine 1st, you can give them yourself. The vaccine can be purchased at www.jefferslivestock.com  along with the needles for administering. The prescribed dose will be stated by the manufacture, as there are many makers of the CDT vaccine. Good Luck on the hoof trimming!  It's not that hard. If their hoofs are very overgrown (or you want to be cautious as a 1st time hoof trimmer) you can take a little off, then come back a few wks later. Bad hoofs sometimes take a few trimmings to get them back in shape. Jeffers also has Castrators & bands (even flat bands -like rubber bands- that won't allow the band to be rolled from where you apply it). Here's a link to info on Horn banding: http://www.nobull.net/bander/dehorningGoatsText.htm


----------

