# Charlie killed my chicken :(



## Pearce Pastures (Jul 10, 2013)

This was last night but I am still upset this morning and would welcome advice.

DH went out for night chores and found that one of my prettiest Black Copper Marans had its shoulders and neck ripped open.  He put it down for me and I looked for evidence of what happened.  Charlie had dug under the run, pulled out concrete blocks that I had put in the ground under the run wall, and had tried to pull her under the fence--feathers and blood all over his side of the fence.  He really worked hard to get this bird.

He is still a puppy really, I know, and I didn't catch him in the act so yelling at him didn't make sense.  But what should I do?


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## bcnewe2 (Jul 10, 2013)

Feel bad for the chicken and work to keep them separated better or more training time with them together.  They have to go through a learning stage so this is part of it.
I know if feels horrible, my chickens are the reason I got my LGD. I love my chickens!  Why is it always one of the best ones? (not that they all aren't good but always my pets)

This to will pass.  Forgive Charlie 

Sorry for your loss


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## elevan (Jul 10, 2013)

I don't have advice as I don't have an LGD, but wanted to offer


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Jul 10, 2013)

Just know it happens, it stinks and move on.  You are right...you can't really scold him after the fact.  

Sorry


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## AshleyFishy (Jul 10, 2013)

I don't know about LGD but I know it is very hard to train a normal dog to not eat or chase chickens. If I had a chicken killer I would rehome it at least.

I think your puppy is well still a puppy, it saw noisy flappy feathery chew tow that tastes good and went for it. It might grow out of it  good luck though.


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## jodief100 (Jul 10, 2013)

If you are serious about chicken proofing him, sit down with him for a while each day, with chickens.  At least 15 minutes but longer is better.  Then scold him whenever he goes near a chicken.  Praise him when he stays away from him.  

I recommend using surplus roosters for this training exercise.  You will loose a few.


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## woodsie (Jul 10, 2013)

First of all I am really sorry, but don't give up on him, this is NOT a case of once he tastes blood he's done for. I think that LGDs are very smart dogs and I am sure if you bring him to the area where he dug in and give him a "bad dog", I bet he starts sulking before you even get him there...then pick up the dead chicken and say "my chicken" or something like that...hug the chicken and make sure he knows you owned the chicken and that you are not happy.  

If you do catch him in the act, I flipped them on their back and grabbed the scruff and give them a shake on their ruff and hold their neck to the ground with lots of grrrrs and bad dog! MY CHICKEN!!! I have seen the dogs correct eachother and they pin the other one by the neck with lots of horrible growling until the dog submits and lays still with head down or on its back. That has worked for us...if Southern has a better idea I would defer to her but we have successfully rehabilitated our dogs from killing chickens with this method and now we have chickens sitting on eggs in their pen and ducks and chickens coming and going into their pen with no incidents. 

I lost 3 chickens to the dogs and rescued a numerous others that were severely slobbered on and on their way out...keep at it they will learn that they are part of their flock but it does take time...afterall chickens are just so fun to chase and they taste pretty good too.  That 9 - 12 months stage was so frustrating to me but now I have some amazing dogs that I love and live peacefully with all my livestock. Keep your chin up and know that there is hope and one day they will the trustworthy guardians you want them to be.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 10, 2013)

On the dog whisperer one night I saw where he was telling a family they needed to "claim" whatever the dog was chasing (memory fails as to the chased animal) by getting between the dog and the animal and blocking him when he tried to get it.  Then later one of my dogs started chasing the cat every time she saw him.  After hollering and throwing things and even spraying her with the garden hose she still wanted to chase the cat.  I tried the method of getting between her and the cat and blocking her.  It only took one time for her to realize she was not to chase the cat.  Would "normal dog" training work with a LGD (not that they aren't normal--just different)?


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## bj taylor (Jul 10, 2013)

real sorry.  it's a hard thing. 

my german shepherd female killed 10 of my chickens when she was one.  she just chased them all to death & crushed them in her mouth.  I accidentally hit on what worked for her.  I was so upset and mad that I didn't want to talk to her or have anything to do with her for several days.  I never yelled at her or shoved their carcass in her face or anything like that - I just ignored her for those several days.  It was a case of 'I couldn't be nice, so don't be anything to her'.  it worked.  she has never thought about going after my chickens again.  after that happened, whenever she looked at them or walked their direction, I would tell her in a very no nonsense voice 'you better leave my chickens alone'.  of course it was the tone, not the words, but every time she would immediately turn the other way or walk the other way.

I now have about 20 birds (currently have too many) roaming the back yard all day every day.  they eat her food, try to take her bone - nothing.  she ignores them.  I don't know if that would work for a dog with a different mind set or not.


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## Grazer (Jul 10, 2013)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> If you are serious about chicken proofing him, sit down with him for a while each day, with chickens.  At least 15 minutes but longer is better.  Then scold him whenever he goes near a chicken.  Praise him when he stays away from him.
> 
> I recommend using surplus roosters for this training exercise.  You will loose a few.


Agreed, this is what I would do too; sit with the pup and the chickens every day. Observe it and every time he would show interest in chasing them, correct him.
And make sure you reward him (with some really tasty pieces of meat) every time he ignores the chicken.
It is going to take a while that's for sure. Some LGD's are not only more stubborn than others, but also very sneaky.
So your best way of handling this problem is by actively working on desensitizing him around poultry and double checking the run every day to make sure Charlie can not get to the chicken when you are not around to watch him.

I am sorry for the loss of your beautiful chicken, it is always very disheartening when the dog you got to guard your animals, ends up killing one of your critters.
But as others have pointed out, all is not lost. With consistency, patience and well timed corrections from your part, this problem can be fixed


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## Pearce Pastures (Jul 10, 2013)

Thanks all.  I went out and sat in the pasture today and he walked very very slowly over by be, head bowed, and lay at my feet, inched closer and closer until I couldn't help but give him a rub.  I think he knows how sad I am, maybe not why but that I am sad.  

I am going to take some fencing and bury it in the ground along the run wall and replace the concrete blocks he pulled it.  He did this in a matter of hours so at least if he tries again when I am not there, the wire will be an added barrier.  Hot wire---I think I will go ahead and do it too.  Just need to go see what I need to get and make this my next weekend project.

And I think I will try to have some more supervised visits with the birds as you all suggested and work to get him to maybe ignore them at the least.  I don't expect him to guard them like the goats, but I hope I can get him to not tunnel in to eat them.


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## babsbag (Jul 11, 2013)

Sorry about chickie 

Mine didn't start chasing birds until they were about 9 months old; and the chickens were with them all the time. Everyone can hate me for this, but I used an electric collar on them. I tried the socialization and it was fine, when I was in the barn with them. So what I did was put the collar on them and then leave the area and let them chase the chicken. I didn't say NO, I didn't scream, I just zapped them and zapped them hard. They stopped chasing and would look at the ground, like where did that come from. Every time they even looked at a chicken I let them have it. I had to do this for a few days, and then a refresher course in a month or so. It worked.

Now when I bring new birds into the flock I have to put them in a cage first and let them get to know each other. I also found out the hard way just last week that this does not work with young birds. I have some that are 9 weeks old and even with a 2 week introduction my female LGD killed one the day I let them out of the pen. So the chicks are back in the intro pen for a while longer. A new rooster I brought home that is 6 months old was released into the flock after about 3 days and the dogs ignore him.

But for the most part my dogs are chicken safe, I have probably 50-75 birds than roam the pasture and barn with the dogs all day. The dogs even tolerate the chickens in their food dish. I think that the little chicks just pique their play desire a little too much. The e collar may need to be resurrected if they don't knock it off.


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## autumnprairie (Jul 11, 2013)

Molly my LDG never chased the chickens but has chased goats and Brownie my queen took care of that. I have had to train the family dogs and outdoor cats that the chickens and chicks are mine. My dog Beebe is not even allowed to perk her ears in interest ( she is an Irish setter/golden retriever mix) she also shows interest in kittens but it is more of "hey Mom I found the kittens" 
Now if I could get KeeKee the momma cat to realize that even if I physically do not raise the chicks they are still mine and not open season on the chicks that are being hen raised


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jul 11, 2013)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> If you are serious about chicken proofing him, sit down with him for a while each day, with chickens.  At least 15 minutes but longer is better.  Then scold him whenever he goes near a chicken.  Praise him when he stays away from him.
> 
> I recommend using surplus roosters for this training exercise.  You will loose a few.


I'm doing this with my pup now. The rooster grow out pen is down in his day pen (when he's off duty). I go down there and let them out and he doesn't get to chase them. He's about 7 months old and is such a pleaser. Not an LGD but he's a mastiff mix that I'm gonna use as a guard dog. He LOVES his goats, He's almost got the no chasing cats down, and now it's dont eat chickens. Not that he's tried.. I just want to get him used to them as frends.  

I did have a broody bust out and kick the crap out of him. He's 60lbs plus and here is this little 4lbs chicken throwing him across the pen. Fierce little thing.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 12, 2013)

My LGD Drift is funny about chickens.  I have one rooster he will not tolerate in his pen.  He doesn't chase the rooster.  He just stays between him and the hens. He wont let him in the stall or even very close to the barn.  I also had a setting hen that brought one baby off the nest.  She was wrapped all around Drifts head/face one day when he dared to try to sniff her baby. He just snorted and found a safer place to lay (after he got a good sniff of the baby)


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## Baymule (Jul 21, 2013)

We have a GP that was given to us because she killed chickens. I do know that she was punished severely and came to us absolutely hating chickens. It took over 2 years to overcome the mistakes that were made with her. She is now the supreme chicken protector and even lets them eat her dog food! She is food aggressive, so that is a major concession to the chickens. Here is the posting I made about her.

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=24453&p=1

Then our dog Parker, a black Lab/Great Dane cross had an incident with a rooster. I rescued the rooster in time, before Parker played with him to death. But Parker had to be dealt with and I made an impression on him with a newspaper. I caught him in the act, so that made correction a lot easier. Parker has NEVER made a move toward a chicken since then. I can let the girls out of the coop in complete confidence that Parker and Paris will not harm them. I posted about Parker on TEG, here is the link to that.

http://www.theeasygarden.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=35617

I hog ringed 2"x2"x2' wire laid flat on the ground all around my coop and run. I had in mind all the terrible stories I read in the predator section on BYC and didn't want to find all my hens dead and the predator gone. Then I got Paris, the GP, and I was glad that I predator proofed the hens coop and run. laying wire around your coop is a very good idea, but attach it somehow to the coop so Charlie can't dig the wire away from the coop. 

I posted the two links to show you that a dead chicken does not necessarily mean a chicken killer forever. Just for the record, I have never hit Paris, the GP with even a newspaper-it would kill her soul. I have hit Parker only a few times with the newspaper and whatever he was corrected for never happened again. Two different dogs, two different correction strategies. Charlie is a puppy. Chickens are the ultimate squeaky toy and irresistible. It will take time and patience, but it can be done.


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## bcnewe2 (Jul 22, 2013)

Jesse has joined the ranks of chicken chaser.  I caught her playing with a hen. Before I could get to her she had her by the head gently carrying her around (I was looking out my office window) by the time I got out there she had switched to picking her up by the tail feathers.  
I went running, screaming out the door with a big stick.  She had already dropped the hen by the time I got to her but she knew what she had done.  Chicken was upset but otherwise fine. I yelled and scuffed an already flopped over Jesse.  She is so sensitive that she acted like I shot her. Became unmovable.  I let her lay there a while then got her a treat since I couldn't drag her back in her area and lead her into the barn, without talking to her.  They are all a bit nervous around Jesse right now. Not all the time, but seems to be in the early morning and evening that they want to be away from her. Just as well while we get through this.  She has looked but not chased again that I have seen and I'm trying to keep a good eye on her or listen to the chickens to hear when they are stressed.  
We're also working on teenage issues with sheep but she's not hurting them just running them a  bit. It's to hot in the day but I find her doing things in the early morning.  She does have one ewe friend whom I find her licking her ears and the ewe nuzzling her. That ewes older lambs will let her groom them too.  
She is still a great dog and I'm so glad she hasn't killed something playing with it.  
Guess we're lucky that it's so hot out during Jesse's teenage years!

Trials and tribulations of teaching an LGD what they can play with and what they can't! Ouf-tah


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## lovinglife (Jul 22, 2013)

I found an air horn works great, you can sit and watch them, when they start after a chicken give them the horn, they HATE the air horn.  Or you can walk them by your chickens and when they start getting interested in them, the horn, actually works good.


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## bcnewe2 (Jul 22, 2013)

An air horn sounds way better than me yelling.
I will try one. Thanks for the suggestion.
Poor girl decided she had to go in the coop this morning when I let her out.  Got a wap on the bum with the feed scoop I had in my hand. You'd swear I shot her!  
That was early, now everyone is resting in the heat. Including her!


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