# Jasper----update



## lalabugs (Sep 18, 2016)

Hi everyone, 

We brought home a 10 week old buckling yesterday. He is SO thin! You can't tell he's that thin, until you put your hands on him. I just couldn't leave the little guy. You can feel every bone. Back bone, rib bones, hip bones. He is currently in the house, in a kennel. 

We gave him a bath when we got home, then gave him ivomec for the lice. He is so tiny. The poor guy is just covered in lice. Checked him this morning, a lot of the lice are dead. However he still has alive lice on him. How much is really hard to tell because of how much is on him. 

Here is pic of him during the bath, showing how bad the lice are. eye lids are light pink. 

He is not use to people either, so we're giving him attention. He's just terrified. 

My question is that with the infestation being so bad, will the first dose and a dose again in 10 days be enough?


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## Latestarter (Sep 18, 2016)

Poor little guy. Hope you're taking precautions that YOU don't end up with lice. Anyway, having never dealt with the issue, perhaps others will be of help... @babsbag @animalmom @Southern by choice @OneFineAcre anyone else?


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## NH homesteader (Sep 18, 2016)

Pretty sure lice is species specific.


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## babsbag (Sep 18, 2016)

Lice are species specific. Poor little guy...   I have only treated for lice once so not much help so I will leave this one up to the 'experts' .


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 18, 2016)

You might want to shave him. I have heard DE and poultry rub work well. I have not had lice (yet) with my goats.


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## animalmom (Sep 18, 2016)

I've not dealt with lice like this before, and when I do seem them the powder treatment usually knocks them out... got to do their bedding too at the same time.  Good thing you took this little guy under your wing.  He needs you!

What did you bathe him in?  @Southern by choice has some great directions for dealing with lice.  You could use the search function to find them... although I'd be surprised if she doesn't post here too.

Good luck with your baby.  What did you name him?  Go after one problem at the time... first the lice then work on why he's so thin -- could be he just needs a good meal.


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## lalabugs (Sep 18, 2016)

Would shaving him help?  I worry with him being so thin. 

We just bathed him in dawn lemon dish soap. He stunk of the buck that he was in the pasture with. 
I will go to the feed store tomorrow and get the powder. 

Plan on getting rid of the lice first. He's got plenty of hay in the kennel with him. He's got grain in with him as well. However he has not touched the grain. 

Thank you! We named him Jasper.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 18, 2016)

Mites do cross over to other species.
Lice are species specific however....

Some kinds of lice will cross to other species. BUT- will not be able to live and thrive.
Sometimes the Goat louse will get on your livestock guardians but will not live on them. Keep that in mind. They may bite them, you but cannot live off you.

Personally on a severe infestation, like your guy has I would have bathed him (like you did) but would have added a mixed solution of permethrins. We use the Permethrins concentrate 10% mix with warm water according to instructions on label. we mix that with the soapy water and bathe completely. Rinse thoroughly then pour the remaining dip over the goat.
Let it drip off for as long as you can then towel dry.

The reason is because it is INSTANT. Especially for infestations. Alo depending on whether it is biting or sucking the injectables don't work on everything  but topical does.

Since you already gave him an injection I would hesitate to use permethrins topically. You could treat in 10 days with either. The DE should work well though.
Get some Diatomaceous Earth and rub into his coat. 
I do think if you can you'd be better off the shave him down.

If only a few are remaining you can still use the DE but you can take a cotton ball wet with mineral oil and dab it over and living louse. It will "stick" to the mineral oil on the cotton ball easily and then you can either soak in permethrin and dispose of or whatever.

His crate will need disinfected. If in your house put the DE around the outside of the crate.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 18, 2016)

I would be afraid he would get cold,  but if you keep him in the house might be OK.  I have only had to treat once for lice so I am not an expert.  I didn't shave my goats. Never have in fact! 

Definitely needs a fecal ASAP.  Kudos to you for taking him in.  Breaks your  heart doesn't it? Poor little guy.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 18, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Definitely needs a fecal ASAP. Kudos to you for taking him in. Breaks your heart doesn't it? Poor little guy.



If owning goats long enough you will have lice and or mites at one time or another. It is part of having livestock.
Infestation can happen suddenly and it isn't always easy to get rid of.

Yes fecal is a must!


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## lalabugs (Sep 18, 2016)

Just got done shaving him. Cleaned out his kennel. Fresh hay down along with DE. I will get a fecal done asap. We're looking for a sweater for him. Thankfully i haven't shipped my daughters small clothes to my friend yet. So i'm grabbing sweaters out of the box for him. 

He is SO thin! I felt him and knew it, but seeing it....... made me break down.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 18, 2016)

He does not look _that_ thin. 
Unless you are in a very cold place don't put a sweater on him.
He isn't a baby. He is 10 weeks and should be able to adjust.


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## babsbag (Sep 18, 2016)

He would have died from anemia if you hadn't rescued him. That stuff makes me so mad.  You can make sweaters out of sweatshirts too, time for a trip to the thrift store 

He may get cold this winter without a coat since he is so skinny so I would start having a good supply of sweaters so you can swap them out all winter long. Not sure he would need one now, at least not during the day. 

The poultry dust has always worked well for me.


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## lalabugs (Sep 18, 2016)

I will keep the sweater put aside. Forecast says not below 50 all week. Will stock up for winter.

I can NOT stand to see a bony animal. I couldn't take working at the shelter after seeing what was okay. (like euthanizing an animal because she's pregnant and they don't want to deal with the puppies. Or another breed that the head LOVES allowing the puppies to be born.)

I don't know what a normal weight of a 10 week old ND should be. He's 9lbs.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 18, 2016)

Oh... my eyes must fail me then. I cannot see the pics too well.
9 lbs  is small 

From a post @Goat Whisperer  shared on...
these twp were twins...
2 of my 11 1/2 week old Nigerian Dwarf kids weighed 22.4 & 26.2

also... 

Now these *2 were quints* and were under 2 lbs at birth... so at 5 1/2 weeks they were at this range. They were teeeeeny tiny at birth. 
My 2 little girls from the quints litter are now 10 & 11lbs! They are growing quick!


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## lalabugs (Sep 18, 2016)

He's a small guy. He's got a surplus of hay in front of him and grain. I have seen him take 1 bite of the grain. He is constantly eating. 
So he should be around 20+lbs right now?


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## Goat Whisperer (Sep 18, 2016)

Do you know how many were in his litter?
15lbd would be the smaller side for my goats. But they are piggys! Maybe @OneFineAcre will post what his kids would weigh at that time, they are all a little different. 

I agree with what the others have said. He is thin, but you see his ribs so that is good.
Now that these issues are being taken care of, he'll gain weight in no time. 

I understand seeing any animal in that condition is hard, but you need to mentally prepare yourself and not let it consume you. For example: one of your goats get a nasty bacterial gut infection. This goat was in perfect condition then within 24 hours the goat is a bag of bones due to the horrible, uncontrollable scours. That is how fast it happens. When a goat get sick, they can drop all their weight in 24 hours. This is part of livestock- at one point or another you are going to have on get very ill. Sometimes you can beat it, other times the goat dies. This can happen in a split second, no matter how hard you work to avoid it. 
If you want to continue raising goats, you must be able to " flip the switch" in your brain to see it all from a clinical prospective. Its not to be callus or hardened, but this in the best interest for the goat. 

We had a doe bust her scur, she lost a lot of blood. It looked like a horror movie and the goat would have died had I not seen her then. We couldn't get it stopped and rushed her to the vet. 
Someone asked me how I could handle that without fainting, panicking, or becoming very overwhelmed. I said that if I had done any of those, the goat would be dead. 

Same goes with a buck we lost to a twisted stomach. I had to be calm and do everything I can to save him. We ended losing him, and it wasn't until after he had passed I finally broke down and said my final goodbye. 30 minutes later I necropsing him with our vet. 
If you want livestock you need to practice how to do this. Not saying this to be rude or snarky, but often times people get caught up in goats so much they then aren't treated as such.


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## lalabugs (Sep 18, 2016)

He is a twin.

I completely understand what you're saying. I'm not a total emotional basket case. Seeing an animal in his condition does bother me, always will bother me.

I did read the whole post about your goat that was bleeding everywhere. It was really bad. You guys did an awesome job.

I can control myself and handle the situation at hand. It's also required to be a mom. Being able to check your emotions in a situation is needed not just for livestock. With my kids, or any kids really. Or a natural disaster. 

 I had to help euthanize animals at the shelter. Then putting them in a giant freezer. You can't have emotions as you're injecting an animal to kill them. Also seeing all the animals that came into the shelter in the condition they were in. You can't be emotional. It's just get down to business and do what has to be done. I completely understand that. 

With Jasper it's a whole different situation. I have done everything I needed to do for him. We bathed him, treated him. He has food, grain and water. I cleaned his pen out, and shaved him. After shaving him, yes I did get emotional.

My husband is always there to remind me if i'm panicking to be calm and do what we need to do. His training in the USMC has taught him this. Which he instills in our children, and if I need reminding.

Fecal will be done asap. Calling vets tomorrow to see if any will do a fecal on a goat. If not i'll be mailing the fecal in.


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## Goatgirl47 (Sep 21, 2016)

How is Jasper doing so far?


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## lalabugs (Sep 21, 2016)

He is doing great! Lice are all gone. He's being treated for Cocci. 
He loves my youngest daughter. First one he allowed to touch him. Follows her every where. Screams when she's in bed or out of sight. (Only time he does not scream is at night. He sleeps in his kennel just fine. During the day that's another story.) Yesterday he was in bed with her while she did her school work. 



Now for him to start putting weight on.


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## lalabugs (Sep 25, 2016)

Update: Jasper is finally gaining weight. After his shave and wormer he dropped down to 8.5lbs. We just weighed him this morning, he's at 10.1 lbs. =-) He's not eating like he's starving to death. He was when I first brought him home. Loves my daughter to death. Just yesterday he started running, jumping, playing with her. Absolutely adorable. 



 

 

 
Just took these pictures before we clean out his kennel.


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## animalmom (Sep 25, 2016)

Good news!


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## Southern by choice (Sep 25, 2016)




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## NH homesteader (Oct 8, 2016)

These pictures were on the homepage when I logged in.  How's he doing?


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## Hens and Roos (Oct 8, 2016)

Glad to hear he is doing better


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## lalabugs (Oct 8, 2016)

He is doing great. Haven't weighed him lately. Just took this pic before we clean the kennel out.
He its such a character. Jumps up on the chairs/couch. Follows my daughter everywhere. 
Made sweet potato cookies the other day, jasper had to have them. My husband shared a couple bites with him.


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## Goat Whisperer (Oct 8, 2016)




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## NH homesteader (Oct 8, 2016)

Yay!


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## TAH (Oct 8, 2016)




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## lalabugs (Oct 9, 2016)

Weighed him this morning, he's up to 13.3lbs.


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## lalabugs (Jan 11, 2017)

Got a small break in the rain. Here is Jaspe


 

 r, he's standing next to my sister's wether. Jasper is 4 months younger than my sisters wether. 
He still only comes to my youngest daughter. He likes loves from everyone, but when he's out running around he will only come to her. 
Not sure on his weight, its been awhile since we weighed the boys. He is a little woolly mammoth right now.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 11, 2017)

Looks great!


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## lalabugs (Jan 21, 2017)

Thank you. 

Have a question about marshmallow. She's gaining & growing amazingly. She still wont touch her minerals or BOSS. I noticed she has REALLY dry skin. Now she's chewing her tail. The lice are all dead that she had. I have checked multiple times. 
Could it be mites or minerals or something else? Here is a picture of her tail. 



 

Her current weight is 17.6 lbs. Her weight when we brought her home was 11.7 lbs on 12/29/16.


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## lalabugs (Jan 29, 2017)

Question regarding marshmallows hooves. They're indented. I'm assuming that it was from being malnourished? 

Is it possible that she'll be able to grow them out normally?


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## lalabugs (Feb 5, 2017)

As of yesterday Marshmallow is up to 27.4 lbs. She's gaining & growing amazingly. She's like a dog to my husband. He clicks, she comes running. Anyone clicks she looks at you then walks away. Unless you have grain. 


My husband called her, she came running. Put her on his lap. She started falling asleep.


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## lalabugs (Mar 30, 2017)

Marshmallow is now 41.2 lbs! Not sure where she should be as an almost 7 month old Mini Mancha. She has gained a lot! She is growing. I'm beyond excited with her gain. We have come a long way with her. She's almost as tall as Honey. I know she is still small, but she's growing.


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## lalabugs (Apr 24, 2017)

Marshmallow is now 48.3 lbs! Here is a picture I took of her a couple days ago. Rose the Nigerian behind her. 

What is a good breeding weight for a Mini Mancha? We're not considering breeding her until after she's a year. That's only if she is big enough to be bred.


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## Goat Whisperer (Apr 24, 2017)

She is looking fantastic!! You've done a great job with her  They look so content. 

We breed when they are about 65#. 
For her I'd wait a minimum of a year, like you said.


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## NH homesteader (Apr 24, 2017)

My mini alpines are 75 and 70 lbs. I eould breed the bigger one but not the smaller one at their current weights (part of that is she is narrow more so than her actual weight). I am being conservative and waiting until fall so they will kid the spring they turn 2. I would say they're comparable to mini manchas.


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## NH homesteader (Apr 24, 2017)

Typing at the same time!


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## Goat Whisperer (Apr 24, 2017)

Lamanchas are a little smaller than alpines, so I thing you are right. 

We really look at rump width too. 
We had a mini lamancha doe kid on her one year birthday, that was the earliest we've ever bred a doe but she was very large and growthy, with a very WIDE rump.  She easily kidded triplets and did great


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## lalabugs (Apr 24, 2017)

Thank you.  We really have come a long way with her.

She was enjoying the shade under the mulberry tree. Favorite spot for all of the girls. Rare moment to get a picture of any of the girls laying down. Usually as soon as they see anyone they're up expecting treats.  

She will not be a year until September 5th.


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## lalabugs (Apr 24, 2017)

We brought Moonpie home on 4/1/17. She's in quarantine right now. She was nothing but skin and bones. We were told she's a bad mom & her babies died. They just wanted her gone. We got a weight on her using the tape measure. It said she was about 75lbs. This was the day she was brought home.



 

We're taking it slow with her. Treating one thing at a time. Making sure she has plenty of hay at all times.




This picture is 10 days after we brought her home. She is gaining but slowly. I got a tape weight on her 4/22. She's at 93 lbs.

Need to get updated pictures of her. She has the sweetest personality. Which has changed my husbands mind on wanting another Nubian. Wanting a Lamancha that we can breed.


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## Latestarter (Apr 24, 2017)

When did her babies die? This spring or last? The reason I ask is that she looks like she might be pregnant (to me). Belly seems low and she seems to have a pretty decent right side bump.   Hard to tell without a close haircut, but she looks a little thin, not drastically...  Glad you're bringing her back!


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## lalabugs (Apr 25, 2017)

She had her babies about 3 months ago. We're trying to dry her up as well. Could she have went back into heat already? She was left in a pasture with a buck. I thought lamanchas are seasonal breeders? 

She was fed, not enough. It is hard to tell with her winter coat. They had 15 does with kids, 1 buck and a cow in a pen with no grazing left. They got 2 flakes of alfalfa twice a day. All the goats in that pen were large breed goats. Boers & Nubians. Moon was the only lamanacha.


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## lalabugs (Apr 26, 2017)

Ran fecals today.  Couple I'm not sure about. Will be sending fecals in, to see. In the mean time,  maybe someone here could help? 

 

 


These are from two separate goats.


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## Goat Whisperer (Apr 26, 2017)

Debris and air bubbles 

It is possible for goats to cycle back and get bred soon after kidding. I know one lady who bred her doe 11 days after the doe kidded triplets 

We've had lamanchas cycle in February, so it *could* be possible that she was re-bred.

If you brought her home on 4/1 I'd pull blood on her at the 40 day mark and send it out for a pregnancy check. It's not expensive, I think a lot of places charge $6 or so.

Part of it could also be the free choice hay. I have a few does that kidded in February but look like they could drop triplets again LOL


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## lalabugs (Apr 26, 2017)

Thank you.
I did not even think that she could be bred again. So soon.  I really hope shes not. Will send in a blood test at 40 days.


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