# Dead baby, what next?



## Gatorpupsmom (May 9, 2010)

It's a long awful story, and I had a long awful night.  Too tired to explain the whole thing, but I haven't been able to contact my vet today.  Give me a little advice so I'll know where I am headed with this.  

Went to check Esther at 2:00 am and discovered that she had a dead baby stuck.  Tip of nose and tip of one hoof sticking out was all she get done.  Baby was really big, had died before she ever started trying to give birth.  She and I together got the baby delivered.  Not sure she has ever passed the placenta.   Don't really think she has.....

What antibiotics are recommended after baby has died in utero, and what does one do if doe doesn't deliver the afterbirth?  

Thanks

Kim


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## ksalvagno (May 9, 2010)

If you have Penicillin, that would be a good antibiotic. If she hasn't passed her placenta, then she is going to need a hormone drug like Oxytocin to help her pass it. 

I would definitely get her started on the Peniciillin. The Oxytocin you have to get from a vet. I would also probably put some molasses in her water to make sure she doesn't get ketosis.

I would say to give her a pain killer like Banamine but you really can't do that until you know that the placenta passes. Banamine has the potential to stop contractions so unless you are administering Oxytocin along with it, I wouldn't give it.

I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## Gatorpupsmom (May 9, 2010)

K.  I don't wanna sit around waiting for vet when I can get started on something to help her.  What dosage of Pen will she need?

K.


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## Gatorpupsmom (May 9, 2010)

Besides, you guys here know a heck of a lot more about goating than my vet does anyway.


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## The Egg Bandit (May 9, 2010)

I'm a newbie, but if you don't get any better advice soon ...
I'd give her some b-complex at the very least - it really helps to "jump start" the system.  I'd do .5 cc/ml sub-cut.  Then some oral "go juice" - I use Nutri-Drench.  But that's just me.  Maybe an oldtimer will come on here with better advice...


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## warthog (May 9, 2010)

Not experienced enough to give advice on this.  But sorry for your loss and hope she does well


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## Gatorpupsmom (May 9, 2010)

Egg Bandit, haven't done this goat thing very long, but I agree.  My thought is that you can't go too far wrong with B-complex and a good drench.  I usually throw in a dose of Probios to go with it.....

What is the time frame limit for passing the placenta after birthing?  Our other Saanen passes hers within a couple of hours, but when our Nubian last kidded, I was freaking out cause it had been several hours.  She later passed it with no issues.  I was freaking out for nothing.  

Thanks guys...husband was out of town on a fishing trip and I have had to do this all by myself, and due to A LOT of other stressors I have going on, I was VERY ill prepared for this.  Live and learn.....it WILL all get better!!!


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## The Egg Bandit (May 9, 2010)

Like I said, I'm a newbie - only three births so far. But don't think that the placenta hasn't been passed unless you have been watching your doe constantly.  One of my does - a Saanen - ate the placenta while I was drying off her kid.  Another one (also a Saanen) buried it in hay, and I only found it days later (ick).  I'd pay more attention to how the doe is doing.  If she's acting distressed (pawing, crying), then I'd be more worried.  Watch the doe, feel how she's doing.


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## Gatorpupsmom (May 9, 2010)

After we got the baby delivered, she and I leaned up against the wall together and dozed for an hour or so.  At 4:30 am, after she and I kept waking each other up, I decided to come in and go to bed.  She very well could have eaten the placenta after I came in, but since she has been distressed for several days anyway, I doubted she would.  Seeing as I haven't had a good night's sleep in almost a week anyway, I am a raving lunatic as it is.....so who knows.

On a side note, I have a summons for Jury Duty and I have to go in the morning to see if I get picked.  As crazy as I am, I don't think anyone wants me on their jury.  On the list of reasons one can be excused from jury duty it doesn't say anywhere "been dealing with sick pregnant goat for a week and don't have enough working brain cells left to make rational decisions."  You think I could write it in?


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## The Egg Bandit (May 9, 2010)

Gatorpupsmom- You are a trooper.  Been there myself.  These goatie girls can slowly make you nuts.  

On jury day, I would be very careful to be polite, but show your exhaustion.  Tell them you can't focus appropriately because you are so worried about your little lady at home and all the sleep you have lost.  Surely they can find someone else to replace you.  If not, I hope it is one of those quick trials that only last an hour or so.  
When it rains, it pours!  And I have discovered that having goats seems to generate thunderstorms.  Not sure why, but I'll keep them anyway.
Good luck!  (With the jury duty AND the doe)


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## ohiofarmgirl (May 9, 2010)

just tell them you watch a lot of Law and Order and cant wait to "string him up"

i swear i know someone who did this and was serious about it. they sent him home

sorry for your loss
:-(



> When it rains, it pours!  And I have discovered that having goats seems to generate thunderstorms


AMEN!


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## ()relics (May 9, 2010)

First of all: she should pass the placenta by 12 or so hours after the birth.  If she hasn't passed it , Could there still be another kid, possibly also dead inside her yet?  I would put on a pair of gloves and VERY CAREFULLY make an inspection of her birth canal/uterus, lubricate them well before entering.  Make 100% sure there is not a kid or the remains of a kid inside, if there is it has to come out....It is probably not alive anymore so think of the doe and pull it out, in pieces if you have to....DO NOT pull the placenta as it could tear inside her and she could bleed to death. No matter what you find or don't find a vet visit would be on an ASAP basis.  Until a vet can be contacted you could give her some Pen G...I would give her 10 cc and give it to her in her uterus, without a needle, just shoot it inside her.  I wouldn't even think about Oxytocin if you aren't experienced with it and then only after 48 hours at least after the birth.  If you aren't going to milk her I wouldn't mess with opening her teats and potentially exposing them to outside infectious agents...The first and most important thing to do is contact your vet so he/she can have an answer for you asap as to what they want you to do next.


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## Gatorpupsmom (May 10, 2010)

Well, it ended very badly.  I am trying to think how to type this and not convey the complete, total bitterness I am feeling about the whole thing.  

Esther was only 15 months old, bred when she was 8 months old.  I can't help but think all of this wouldn't have happened had we waited and not bred her the first year she came in heat.  That decision was taken out of my hands by a husband who assured me I didn't know what I was talking about....hence the bitterness and anger.  I know it happens with all ages of birthing goats, but I still believe it would have been better to wait.  

She had gotten to the point she couldn't get up and walk.  Last night after watching and watching and watching for a placenta to pass, I realized that she was trying to have another dead baby.  Or rather, the hooves of a dead baby were hanging out.  We finally talked to the vet, who tried to instruct us on how to get the dead baby out.  The head was turned back and we tried for over 2 hours to push the baby back and reposition it so we could pull it out.  2 hours of listening to Esther scream while we pushed and pulled and tugged.  I am sure if we could have gotten her to a vet things might have turned out differently, but I couldn't stand to put her through it any longer.  We put her down.......

It was horrible, and without going into a page long diatribe detailing how angry I am about the whole situation, I just want to say "Thank You" for giving me advice when I was stuck trying to deal with it on my own.  

Sadly, 

Kim


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## mossyStone (May 10, 2010)

Kim.. I am so very sorry ((((((hugs))))))  


Mossy Stone Farm!


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## freemotion (May 10, 2010)

It is truly horrible to watch an animal suffer so much and not be able to help.  You were brave to make the decision to give her the ultimate kindness and end her suffering.

In a few days when you have had some rest, try not to beat yourself (or your dh) up too much about the breeding dates.  Thousands of goats are bred at 8 months with no problems.  And many are bred at 2 years old and have problems.  My mature goat had two difficult presentations in a row, and she was bred at 2-3 years old.  My doeling that was bred at 8 months squirted her baby out quickly and nursed it all by herself in between my frequent checks.  It happens.  Not much comfort, I know, but please hear me, it is not your fault or your husband's.


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## The Egg Bandit (May 10, 2010)

Oh, I am so sorry for your loss!   I was so afraid something like that would happen to one of my does.  Like freemotion said, sometimes the youngsters just squirt them out with no worries.  I feel your pain.  But don't give up, even vets lose them sometimes.  The good days happen more often than the bad days with goats.  Hang in there, and your DH probably feels bad too, so be nice to each other.


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## glenolam (May 10, 2010)

I, too, am very sorry to hear about your pain and loss!  Time will hopefully heal you and at the very least you come out of this with some knowledge of how to help in the future, God forbid you ever have to go through this again.


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## RockyToggRanch (May 14, 2010)

so sorry...


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## noobiechickenlady (May 14, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear about your loss.


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## lilhill (May 14, 2010)

So very sorry for your loss.


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## Roll farms (May 14, 2010)

I'm sorry for your loss....and the misery she went through before you had to put her down.

I had something sort of similar happen here many, many years ago, and got so mad at my husband that I sold every goat I had because I didn't want to go through that pain ever again....

Later I realized that it wasn't HIS fault, that he didn't WANT the goat to suffer / die....and that if he'd known what the result would be, things would have happened differently.

Try to keep that in mind and not be toooo hard on him.  I'm sure he's feeling pretty guilty about it as it is.


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