# Major bloat and possible goiter?



## nstone630 (Sep 10, 2019)

She was fine...until today. Was out giving feed and they always come when I yell hey. Today Red didn't come. And those who have goats know that means trouble.

She looks like she literally could pop. Along with mass on neck, hard, which again was not there 24 hrs ago. My girls have always been fluffy, but this is EXTREME. Almost like she is having trouble breathing. I can see her belly "moving" on the left side, which she is larger on. Not pregnant.

Help? Advice? What might I have at home that will help her bloat?


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## nstone630 (Sep 10, 2019)

Update. Gave her 20 mL of mineral oil incase of bloat. I was planning on 60-120 mL but she struggled so hard to swallow the first 20, I stopped. She was choking. Though she is able to drink water. Rules out obstruction?

She sound like she can't breathe, making growling sounds with each forced breath. I will see how she is in the am. If she makes it through.


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## nstone630 (Sep 10, 2019)

She is also NOT acting distressed, which is worrisome.


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## Hens and Roos (Sep 10, 2019)

will she let you rub/message her side to help get her to burp?

@babsbag @OneFineAcre @B&B Happy goats @Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @Baymule


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## nstone630 (Sep 10, 2019)

Hens and Roos said:


> will she let you rub/message her side to help get her to burp?
> 
> @babsbag @OneFineAcre @B&B Happy goats @Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @Baymule




Yes she will let us rub anything and everything. I had read that I should not massage the lump if hard.


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## nstone630 (Sep 10, 2019)

Hens and Roos said:


> will she let you rub/message her side to help get her to burp?
> 
> @babsbag @OneFineAcre @B&B Happy goats @Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @Baymule




Should we massage her HUGE belly? Trying to get it worked up?


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## Hens and Roos (Sep 10, 2019)

we had a buckling earlier this year with bloat and we gently rubbed his belly to try and help him burp.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 10, 2019)

Call your vet immediately. 

If she aspirated on the mineral oil and that is death.


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## nstone630 (Sep 10, 2019)

She only "sounded" aspirated. I dont know how else to explain it. Even before the administration mineral oil.


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## Goat Whisperer (Sep 10, 2019)

Have you called a vet? This is an emergency and a vet is needed asap.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 10, 2019)

Agree that she needs a vet - ASAP!   In the interim you might try standing her with her front feet higher than the rear - which "might" allow some of the gas to rise and allow her to burp.  But, it probably wont' work if it's 'frothy' bloat - but might give her a tiny bit of relief if its "just" gas.  She IS in distress if her breathing sounds labored.   Respiratory distress will kill a goat with bloat.... 

Hope you can get her some relief tonight.


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## nstone630 (Sep 10, 2019)

Called on call vet. Basically everything we have tried is it unless we want to send goat to UNC veterinary hospital for surgery. They said to see if she is still with us in the morning and decide then.


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## nstone630 (Sep 10, 2019)

Her bloat is not frothy at all. And I've seen her get feed stuck. She slings her head back and forth until she clears it. Nothing like this.


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## Beekissed (Sep 10, 2019)

Could it be what is called "choke" in horses?   An esophageal obstruction that isn't allowing her to burp...what has she been eating?   The build up of gas is constricting her lungs from getting a full breath.  

In horses they lavage with warm water via a nasogastric tube until the obstruction passes...if you aren't well practiced in doing your own vet care, you'll need a vet.  You may lose this goat if you don't get her to a vet...in horses they aren't having the gas buildup a ruminate has, so it doesn't hold the same danger for them, though they can still aspirate due to the back up of water and food from the esophagus.  

http://bearcreekvet.net/esophageal-obstruction-choke/


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## Beekissed (Sep 10, 2019)

I would try massaging that mass, no matter what anyone says...what have you got to lose here?   If it's a food obstruction, massaging it a bit may break it up enough for her to pass it along.


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## nstone630 (Sep 10, 2019)

Working on it


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## Baymule (Sep 10, 2019)

What about walking her? I had a ewe bloat, I gave her mineral oil and walked her. Or rather, I pushed her and made her walk. I walked her for 2 1/2 hours. She survived. 

I hope your goat makes it.


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## Beekissed (Sep 10, 2019)

I too am hoping much for your success in resolving this issue.  I think all of us folks with small holdings, working closely with our animals, can feel your stress over this goat.  I wish I were there and could help in some way, in any way, if possible.


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## Beekissed (Sep 11, 2019)

How's Red this morning?   I'm hoping everything has resolved and she's comfortable now.


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## nstone630 (Sep 11, 2019)

She is still with us, and alert. She has access to water. When I get home I will walk her (push her) around in hopes to clear it. Neck and stomach appear the same. 

Vet blatantly put it in perspective last night. It hurts to hear, but true. "How much does this goat mean to you?" At first I was almost offended. Then she explained what she can come try, the cost. Then if that doesn't work, only step is hospitalization, and cost. As much as I do love her, I cannot fork out thousands, just not in the cards. I have always managed illness with my small herd (3) from home and advice from this group. 

I really appreciate the show of concern! I will keep you updated this afternoon.


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## rachels.haven (Sep 11, 2019)

(I think you need a better vet.)


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## Baymule (Sep 11, 2019)

Your vet was being realistic. You should thank her for being upfront and honest about a difficult situation. I love my sheep, but I cannot justify spending $1,000 on a $250 ewe that isn’t registered, is a grade ewe. It doesn’t make financial sense. I certainly don’t want any of my animals to suffer, I take good care of them and I love them. Sometimes you have to put emotions to the back burner and common sense to the front. We know you are doing the best you can. 

At least she explained things to you and gave you choices, instead of rushing to the rescue, which might result in a dead goat anyway, then present you with a big fat bill.


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## Baymule (Sep 11, 2019)

I had a $400 horse once who got an abcessed tooth. Vet #1 wanted me to take him to Texas A&M and spend several thousand on treatments. Uhhhh...... no. Vet #2 gave me a bunch of antibiotics in huge pills, cost $125. I put him up, crushed the bolus, mixed with Karo syrup and loaded the goop in a large syringe. I dosed him every day for a month. The abscess went down, he healed and was just fine.


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## nstone630 (Sep 11, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Your vet was being realistic. You should thank her for being upfront and honest about a difficult situation. I love my sheep, but I cannot justify spending $1,000 on a $250 ewe that isn’t registered, is a grade ewe. It doesn’t make financial sense. I certainly don’t want any of my animals to suffer, I take good care of them and I love them. Sometimes you have to put emotions to the back burner and common sense to the front. We know you are doing the best you can.
> 
> At least she explained things to you and gave you choices, instead of rushing to the rescue, which might result in a dead goat anyway, then present you with a big fat bill.



Thank you! Not many understand. Red is an unregistered Boer Doe. She is the most loving and kind goat and has beautiful kids. She was $150 dollars. I am unfortunately not in the business for the $1000 registered goat sales. I in no way want her to suffer and will do everything I am capable of, within my limits. I'm appreciative of the vets honesty.


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## rachels.haven (Sep 11, 2019)

So I guess the vet is fairly sure they know what's going on via the phone. I'm sorry. Good luck.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 11, 2019)

We had a buck kid last year that got "choke"
We were able to gavage him with an aquarium air hose and blow air to get the food obstruction out.  We always mix some dry shredded beet pulp in our feed and we figured he must have ate too much. We watch that a lot closer now with young ones.

Now with a sever case of bloat you can take a large needle and syringe and insert through their side into the rumen to let air out.  I've never done it but I think Goat Whisperer and SBC have done it before.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 11, 2019)

As far as your vet, it shouldn't cost that much to treat the animal if it's choke or bloat.  Especially if you take her to the vet.
You should get her up and move her around.  We had one real bad one time that we loaded up to take to the vet.  When we got to the vet all to of the jostling in transport helped her pass some gas.


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## nstone630 (Sep 11, 2019)

Update. Called vet to come make a visit. 
They "deflated her" and it was all gas, no foam. Gas came out for 1 min 30 sec. Guess that's alot?

Without imaging she is unsure about the large lump on throat. She says that when she tubed her she did not feel anything against tube in esophagus. That leads her to believe it's not an obstruction .

She is attempting to drink water in small sips. Vet says she is the one not wanting to burp or bring up food to chew cud. Vet feels something is making her throat hurt. 

Gave banamine, along with 3 additional doses to give over the next couple days. 
She says b co.plex wont hurt. I also have Duramycin, she says antibiotics won't hurt either. 

At this point, without imagin, throw it all at "this weird mass" and see if anything helps.


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## nstone630 (Sep 11, 2019)

What about potential snake bite?


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## Hens and Roos (Sep 11, 2019)

Hope she starts feeling better for you


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## nstone630 (Sep 11, 2019)

Anyone use Duramycin in goats? Can't find dosage o line anywhere.


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## rachels.haven (Sep 11, 2019)

The Google search for "duramycin goats" brought up a few answers for me. You can't refer to competitors sites on here, otherwise I'd pass you the link to the discussion instead of beating around the bush. There were some non-competitors in the results list. I can probably link to the results without breaking rules for you.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dur.....69i57j0l5.6113j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


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## Baymule (Sep 11, 2019)

Snake bite is possible. There would be fang marks, but if too swollen, they would be hard to see. For snake bite I give my dogs Benedryl and baby aspirin every 4 hours. I also keep Arnicare pills and give that for pain. If a snakebite, the swelling should start to go down after several days to a week. 

I'm glad the vet let all the gas out of her. I hope she feels better!


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## nstone630 (Sep 11, 2019)

Been reading up on hematomas as well.  the options of what this is remain a mystery. Feels like she swallowed a stump! It's hard and big as a softball. 

She also seems to be bloating again. gave her b complex, duramycin. She is laying down which she hadn't done since yesterday. We shall see what the morning holds.

She does make the worst noises when she is swallowing.


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## Baymule (Sep 11, 2019)

I don't know what to say. I have no diagnosis, no words of wisdom, no experience with a similar situation. I know you love her and you will give it all you've got. You are a good goat momma.


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## nstone630 (Sep 12, 2019)

She is still with us today!  even up and alert, met me at the fence before leaving for work. 
I hope for further improvement when I get home


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 12, 2019)

Yay!  Hope she continues to improve!


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## Baymule (Sep 12, 2019)

That is good news!


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## Beekissed (Sep 12, 2019)




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## nstone630 (Sep 13, 2019)

She was bloated again yesterday when my husband got home from work. He successfully belched her, like the vet did. The mass is still there. Rock hard. No idea what to make of it. She has an appetite and drinks water.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 13, 2019)

Just curious - but did the vet pay much attention to the mass?  I wonder if it could be swelling and partially cutting off her ability to belch.  Is she ruminating?  Did the vet, by chance, try to aspirate anything from the lump?  I know you mentioned earlier that you'd been reading up on hematomas.  I know this has got to be making you a bit crazy - it would me!  Just hope it can resolve itself!


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## nstone630 (Sep 13, 2019)

So she is 100% bloated again. Husband was not successful in belching tonight. She is not alert.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 13, 2019)




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## Beekissed (Sep 13, 2019)

Might be time to consider her quality of life/comfort levels now and give her some mercy.


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## ragdollcatlady (Sep 14, 2019)

I am sorry to read about your difficulties with your doe.

Our very first goat is still here... with a huge growing solid mass on her neck. She still gets around fine and is currently happy, but I wont wait too long once she is not. Our vet had done a C-section on her many years ago and we retired her from breeding after that, she has earned her keep over the years, taught us tons and allowed us to learn and make the mistakes we made as 'new kids' in the hobby farm field will do, and she has definitely earned the benefit of being let go when the time comes.... 

Just sharing to let you know that we understand trying as much as you can do, doing as much as you can afford, and we also understand the choices and the hard stuff that follows if that isn't enough or if there is no helping them in the end. 

Still hoping for a little miracle for you.... but we (BYH) are here for you either way.


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## Hens and Roos (Sep 14, 2019)




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## Baymule (Sep 14, 2019)

I lost my sweetheart ewe to a ruptured pre pubic tendon and had to put her down. I was shattered. I couldn't have made it without the love and support from my BYH friends. 
Many of us have been where you are now. We are your support team, no matter what the outcome. We are here for you.


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## nstone630 (Sep 17, 2019)

Tuesday update. Red is still here. We have had to belch her every 2 days at the minimum. It is getting worse each time. Last night we thought she aspirated so bad she was gone. It was VERY painful seeing that. I won't let her go theough that again. She has taken a liking to an old truck in the field. Won't even come to the barn for food anymore. She was always our most loving, friendly, bouncing personality of a goat. She wanted to be loved. Yesterday my son (this is his goat) fed her apple slices, she ate them. Tonight he couldn't even get her to the barn without her collapsing to her belly. She is bloated again. Choked on a small sliver of apple, that she really wanted. He tried to go to her again with more apple and she ran away. She doesn't even want to be near us anymore. It is very sad. And it is almost like she wants her own space to end her own way. My husband has given her a week, and we are taking it day by day. Tomorrow might be the day we send her away. My heart hurts. 

Thank you who all understand what we are going through.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 17, 2019)

So sorry to hear it.  You have given it a good fight.  Sounds like she’s tired of the fighting.


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## B&B Happy goats (Sep 17, 2019)

I'm  so sorry for all of you, watching her change like that so quickly hurts your heart...god bless you all and god bless Red ...we are here with you


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## Baymule (Sep 17, 2019)

This is where you ask yourself why do you keep saving her and what are you saving her for, only to do it again. She is telling you that she is tired of being sick. Her will to live is still there, that is what makes it so hard. The will to live is a deep primal reaction in all of us and we sometimes struggle to the very end. 

Red has tried, she has tried so hard. Her family has tried so hard to make her better, but some things are not to be. I wish I could give you and your family a great big hug and sit down and cry with you. My heart hurts for you and for Red.


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## ragdollcatlady (Sep 18, 2019)

I am so sorry for your family and for Red


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## Beekissed (Sep 18, 2019)

Baymule said:


> This is where you ask yourself why do you keep saving her and what are you saving her for, only to do it again. She is telling you that she is tired of being sick.



I agree.  She's not going to get any better and, at this point, one has to ask themselves why they are waiting to put her out of her misery.  She needs help to give her ease.


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## rachels.haven (Sep 18, 2019)

x2. If you know reasonable medical care won't fix it, especially after a vet visit where they can check and see and KNOW it's not going to improve with care, and she keeps getting worse I'd end it, but I'm not as nice. She's hurting. You've done your diligence, IMO. You've got a very kind heart. I'm so sorry.


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## nstone630 (Sep 18, 2019)

Well she made the decision for us. She passed away . Glad she is at peace now. My husband wants to do an informal necropcy to see what that mass was.


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## Goat Whisperer (Sep 18, 2019)

I am so so sorry  

I would open her up, to see what you can find. But it can be tough when it was your own animal though.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 18, 2019)

I agree that it would be good to see if you can get an idea what the mass was.  It is hard - but if you can learn something it can be worth it.  So sorry for your loss.


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## B&B Happy goats (Sep 18, 2019)

Very sorry for your loss of  Red.


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## Hens and Roos (Sep 18, 2019)

sorry to hear


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## Mini Horses (Sep 18, 2019)

Feel so badly for you, sorry you lost her.  But, she is at peace now.   I would look to see what the mass was.   For me, a sharp razor is fastest and less traumatic for me. Makes a surgical cut.

  We all know how badly it hurts and feel it with you.


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## Beekissed (Sep 18, 2019)

I've read that sometimes those hard masses are just pocketed pelleted feed and grains that hardens and can't be passed along.  

It's hard to lose a good animal but I'm glad she's not suffering any longer.


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## Baymule (Sep 18, 2019)

I am really sorry. It hurts to lose a favorite. I would want to know what that mass was, I’m with your husband on that one.


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## ragdollcatlady (Sep 18, 2019)

I am so sorry for your loss. 

I am relieved that it is over for you and for Red.


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## nstone630 (Sep 19, 2019)

Thank you all for the kind words. My son found her when he got home from school, really upset him. 

As tough and strong as my husband is, it ended up getting to him and couldn't bring himself to cut her open. As curious as I was, I couldn't do it either.


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## Baymule (Sep 19, 2019)

I understand that. It feels like a violation. It may sound like an oxymoron, coming from someone who can shoot, hang and skin, gut and process deer or hogs, kill and clean chickens, rabbits and other animals, but I do have my soft spots. It is easy for me to say on a forum that I would want to know what that mass was. Quite another thing to be looking at a dead animal that I loved with a knife in my hand. Nope. I don't think I could do it either. I would be crying, digging a hole or watching my husband on the tractor digging a hole. Placing her in the hole, cry some more, cover her up, say prayers and cry some more. Why does it have to be our favorites?


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