# Rough day....Doodle update, page 7



## Roll farms (Feb 7, 2011)

Hillary, one of my Nubian does...is sick.  

Doodle, her half-sister and my favorite Nubian, is having issues.

I've got a couple of kids w/ the poops.  Not a big deal itself, just an added hassle to a stressful day.

And...my patagonian Cavy (pet, looks like a giant rabbit) nearly cut his leg off this afternoon.

I think Hillary's issue is either parasites or an unknown / unseen injury.  No fever, poop is fine, losing weight and weak in her back end...I'm scared it's meningeal worm.  Treated for worms and giving supportive care....vet says that's about all I can do at this point.  Tested CAE neg. in 2010.

I actually called the vet today to see if they'd remove Doodle's udder.  Long story short, the vet came to do a biopsy on a suspicious lump and poked the needle through the lump and into one half of her udder...the lump turned out to be CL so...yeah, now her udder is producing CL pus.
The cost / risks are too great to remove the udder while she's in milk so....I asked him to come put her down.

Then I broke down and called him back and told him not to.

We're going to try to dry her off and remove it then.  I didn't want to deal w/ it...but I can't put her down either.  

The cavy's on antibiotics, the kids are clearing up, I feel better now that I've decided to not put Doodle down, but now I will worry if I made the right decision...and I'm still worried about Hillary.

Guess it was my turn to have a bad animal day.


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## glenolam (Feb 7, 2011)

I'm sorry your day wasn't as good as it could have been.  I hope it gets better!


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## ksalvagno (Feb 7, 2011)

So sorry about Hillary and Doodle. That stinks. I hope Hillary gets better for you and you can dry off Doodle. Understand about not being able to put her down.


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## elevan (Feb 7, 2011)




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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 7, 2011)

Im sorry...Now thats what I call a full plate...jezz Im sorry about Doodle...thats tough...and everyone else too...

Hope things get better soon for all.


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## chandasue (Feb 7, 2011)

Sounds like a good night to make some fudge...


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## themrslove (Feb 7, 2011)




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## TTs Chicks (Feb 7, 2011)

chandasue said:
			
		

> Sounds like a good night to make some fudge...


that'll make you feel better


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## goat lady (Feb 7, 2011)

sorry about your troubles.


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## freemotion (Feb 7, 2011)

Aww, shoot.  

Why do you need to remove her udder?  Won't it heal up?  (Newbie question....)  Ugh.  Poor thing.


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## phoenixmama (Feb 7, 2011)

chandasue said:
			
		

> Sounds like a good night to make some fudge...


Then pour yourself some wine.  Hope tomorrow's better...


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## Our7Wonders (Feb 7, 2011)

How awful.  I'm so sorry.  Some days just suck.  Here's a hug for you-->     And cyber fudge has been sent as well.

Is Doddle's absess an internal one?  I'm assuming that it is since it can't be lanced and drained like the others.

Hope things turn around quickly for you and all your critters make a speedy recovery.


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## mossyStone (Feb 7, 2011)

I am so sorry your plate is getting ful with all these issues.... But i know you will do what is best for all....  

Hang in there......


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## Roll farms (Feb 8, 2011)

I feel sorry for my dh today....I have to leave for work soon, and he'll be bottle feeding all the kids, milking all the does, administering medicine to the cavy (who'm he's afraid of...lol), feeding, and then dealing w/ Doodle once everyone else is squared away.



> Is Doodle's absess an internal one?  I'm assuming that it is since it can't be lanced and drained like the others.


One half of her udder is now an abscess.  Instead of milk, you get the infection out.  
I've not been able to find any info on that happening 'normally', and never had a doe get it "in" the udder before.  The vet and I agree it had to have happened during the lancing / biopsy last fall.

I am hoping it 'kills' that half of the udder, like a case of untreated mastitis will.

Right now she's in isolation, w/ teat tape over the 'bad' side, and we're waiting until everyone else has been dealt with, then milking out the good side, feeding it to the cats, draining what we can out of the bad side, and she's on antibiotics.  I'm trying to dry her off as fast as I can.

If we don't remove her udder, this will be a recurring issue that I don't want to deal with.  She'll still have CL, of course...but an isolated abscess is much easier to lance / sterilize / heal up than an udder leaking the bacteria out is.  

I mean...she can't ever enter my pasture again like this...and being penned up for life isn't fair to her. 


We're sterilizing everything and changing clothes and all that, it's a huge hassle and that's why I was going to put her down...but to look at her, she's FINE.  And sooo loving.  Just a joy to be around.  

I cannot do it.  I can't look her in the eye and justify putting her down to myself.

The truly sad part of it is she has a BEAUTIFUL udder, and is making 5# of milk out of the good side....she would have broken our production records this year. 

Thanks for the support.  I had some chocolate chip cookies...that helped.


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## lilhill (Feb 8, 2011)

So very sorry you're having to deal with all this.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 8, 2011)

I'm sorry.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 8, 2011)

I am so sorry Roll.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 8, 2011)

Poor Doddle  

Can the vet remove that udder for her??? That would be a blessing.  

Keep the faith!!!  Im sorry your going through this!


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## jodief100 (Feb 8, 2011)

My deepest sympathies.  I know how much Doodle means to you.  I really hope everything tuns out OK.


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## Lady Jane (Feb 8, 2011)

I am so sorry you are going through all of this Rolls.  Hope things turn up for you soon


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## cindyg (Feb 8, 2011)

I too am sorry to hear of your troubles.  It's always something isn't it ?  I am a newbie, don't even have goats yet, but maybe very soon.  I don't know what CL is?  Something bad I'd guess.  I have never heard of removing an udder, is that possible?  So, that doe would never produce milk again?  An abcess is a terrible thing, I remember having one in my breast after the birth of my last child, and yourlittle goat still producing milk from one side is just like I was, still nursing my baby from the unaffected side.  I hope she gets better soon for you.


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## cstafford93514@yahoo.com (Feb 8, 2011)

Hey Rolls,
Nothing to say really, just want you to know I am praying for comfort for you as you walk through this difficult time.
Blessings,
Carol


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## warthog (Feb 8, 2011)

I am so sorry, hope today will be better for you.  Thinking of you


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## PattySh (Feb 8, 2011)

Sorry to hear you are going thru so much. Crossing fingers for the little one with the udder issue! Never had that done with a goat bit I did have to have breast cancer surgery (breast removal) done on one of my dogs around age 6 and she did very well after and lived a full life until age 16.


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## poorboys (Feb 8, 2011)

hope things go well, we always hope for a uneventful season, and it seems it never fails that a doe or baby gets sick. so sorry


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## RoeDylanda (Feb 8, 2011)

Roll, I'm so sorry to read about Doodle and your other troubles. Your affection for your animals and your obvious skill with them is one of the things I love on this board. I hope things improve for you soon.


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## greenfamilyfarms (Feb 8, 2011)

My gracious! Bless your heart!


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## Roll farms (Feb 8, 2011)

Thanks guys.

No real earth-shattering updates....Doodle's still meeting me at the door of her isolation room for love and chin scratches, the cavy's healing, Hillary's still w/ us but not showing any real improvement (but the fact that she's still here is great news...I worried all day at work) and the kid's poops are solid.

I really do appreciate the support.  I know you guys "get it"...


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## jlbpooh (Feb 9, 2011)

That is good to hear that things are slowly improving. 

I know what you mean about "get it". I work in a "professional" environment, so when we had a duckling that took a turn for the worse a few weeks ago, I couldn't take a day off because they wouldn't have understood. Thankfully my neighbor volunteered to hand feed and water the duckling every 30 minutes for me two days in a row, and I got up multiple times during the nights to feed her too. The little bugger pulled through and did great for another week and a half, but then we found her in the same manner again, head turned back and very weak. She didn't make it the second time. We don't know what happened, because she was in the house, and five minutes earlier she was just fine. 

I am so glad you are going to keep your Doodle, and help her live out a happy life. This next comment isn't directed towards ANYONE on this board, but I have met WAY too many people in real life that think that animals are just disposable things that can just be thrown away if they develop any issues or disabilities. We have several of our birds that got injured (a guinea met a fox and has a bad limp even 2 years later), went blind (a guinea), didn't hatch right but ended up being OK, etc., we just provide them with love, so rehabilitation,  and a nice place to live. Too many other people would have just left them to die.

Here are some {{{HUGS}}} and hopes that things continue to improve for you.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 11, 2011)

Just wondering how you and the girls are doing Roll... Everything ok?


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## Roll farms (Feb 11, 2011)

Yup.  

Hillary's still wobbly, but by golly she survived nights down to -20 w/ the wind chill...and is still willing to eat / fight me at med times, so I'm more hopeful.

Waiting for it to warm up a bit to do some work on Doodle's udder.  Can't operate when my hands are frozen.  

The cavy's healing well.

The poopy kid has cleared up.

*heavy sigh of relief*


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 11, 2011)

That's good to hear!


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## ksalvagno (Feb 11, 2011)

Sounds like things are getting better. When it rains it pours, eh?


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## mossyStone (Feb 11, 2011)

Glad to see things are looking up


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## scrambledmess (Feb 14, 2011)

Oh my!  I work several days in a row and can't get on here and I miss all this.  I only met Doodle a few times and you know I fell in love with her.  This almost has me in tears too.  I hope it all get cleared up and they can remove it so she can rejoin her herd!


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## PattySh (Feb 14, 2011)

Sounds like the kid is ok and the cavy healing. How is Doodle and Hillary  doing? Never easy to have sick ones.


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## kelsey2017 (Feb 14, 2011)

Healing thoughts for all of you.  Your doe Doodle will thank you, if she hasn't already, I think you made the best call.  It was really based on what she was telling you, and you convey her as a special animal.  Good wishes, Kels


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## Roll farms (Feb 14, 2011)

Doodle's fine...it's her udder that's sick.....she's never missed a beat, bless her heart.  That's why I couldn't put her down.

Hillary.....has me (and the vet) stumped, still...but she's still w/ us.


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## kelsey2017 (Feb 14, 2011)

Having nursed two kids and used a pump for the other two kids myself I can deeply sympathize  with an ouchy udder, but I wouldn't have still been sweet.  Bless her little heart.  I hope Hilary is better soon, as well.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 14, 2011)

first off, this sucks really bad.. sorry its all happening. 
second, here`s what im thing w re: to doodle`s udder... CL is really only the horrible thing it is because its in the lymphadic system, because the lymphadic system walls itself off.. its not as if the bacterium itself has much to do with the overall condition of CL being such a pita.. having said that, it seems to me that having CL *bacteria* in a chamber of the udder...exposed...right there in front of ya...isnt nearly the same animal as `traditional` CL.. seems to me this is most likely locally treatable..

now, having said all that, i happen to know that erythromycin reaches WAY HIGH levels in milk, which means a shot of it runs directly through the udder.. dairy cattlemen use it for strep ag mastitis foe that very reason.. just sayin...its not walled off, which means its exposed, which *should* make it accessible to regular antibiotics.

make sense??

hope so, cause i just posted this fro my phone and my thumbs are crampy.


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## Roll farms (Feb 15, 2011)

CM, sounds great in theory....but in practice it didn't work.

She's been on erythromycin, injected and shot straight in the udder via teat infusions.  She's been on about every antibiotic known to man trying to clear it up.  

Right after she kidded, the area w/ the 1st lump that caused the whole problem started to swell up again.  And now...it has 2 little sister lumps growing.  Dr. B. says he's never seen / heard of anything like it.  
Almost like the harder we try to kill it, the more rampant it gets...like the infection IN the udder is now trying to come out through the back / side of the udder on the affected half...That's a little to SciFi channel for me.

I think maybe the Lymphatic System around her udder's gone haywire from the added blood flow at freshening...I induced her labor w/ lut (so I could be SURE to be there / catch the kids) so maybe that helped make it worse...I dunno.

I'm waiting for them to get 'ripe' before I do anything to them, b/c if you bust them too soon, they'll just fill back up again....this I know from past experience.

I am still milking out / tossing the milk from the good side, decreasing frequency in an effort to dry her off...which isn't going so well b/c she's a GOOD producer.  

NOTHING will come out of the 'bad' side, and if I even act like I'm going to touch it, she goes all "kung fu panda" on me.  
That half is slowly shrinking, so maybe it is 'dying' which is what the vet and I hope for.  Get the other side to quit being "Best producing half an udder,  2011" and *maybe* we can cut it off and get her healed up before fly season.

She is sooo tired of being cooped up / alone, I try to spend a lot of time w/ her and take her for walks (in the yard, not the pasture) but I feel like I'm being mean to her. 

Ad in that I "let" Hillary's post-kidding Barberpole explosion get her this down due to being distracted, and I'm not feeling like a very good goat owner right now.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 15, 2011)

Im glad to hear some of the issues coming off that full plate!  Roll you are NOT a bad goat owner!!  

I know how that feels sometimes.  One of my cats has a rare eye disease and we've been dealing with it for months..vets and  medicines etc. Then a specialist finally diagnosed properly and he is doing good.  But I forget the basics..his worming...and he vomited up roundworm sat.    And I felt like a bad Momma...As Im running around trying to keep him from going blind...I let him get wormie...  

Were human remeber that!!!  

Walking her and spending extra time with her...Im sure is helping her alot!!    Thats a great goat momma!!!!  

Hope things get better for you soon!!!


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## cmjust0 (Feb 15, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> CM, sounds great in theory....but in practice it didn't work.
> 
> She's been on erythromycin, injected and shot straight in the udder via teat infusions.  She's been on about every antibiotic known to man trying to clear it up.


Wow..  Ok then.  Wouldn't have expected that to happen, but then again, I guess whoever thought it up before me didn't expect it either.

Was that something you decided to try on your own, or was a vet involved in making that decision?



> ...I'm not feeling like a very good goat owner right now.


Uhhh, you're talking about *spending* money to amputate an udder instead of making a few bucks by auctioning a goat that can technically still walk.

You're an awesome goat owner.


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## themrslove (Feb 15, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Uhhh, you're talking about *spending* money to amputate an udder instead of making a few bucks by auctioning a goat that can technically still walk.
> 
> You're an awesome goat owner.


*nods* 
You are doing the very best you can for her and I am sure that she appreciates it.  
You are a fantastic goat owner!  Never think any differently!


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## Roll farms (Feb 15, 2011)

You ain't the only researchin' / readin' / tryin' new things fool out there, CM.  

I used Today on her 1st at the vet's instruction, then saved the empty infusion tubes, found some info on cow mastitis  / treatments and 'made' my own using sesame oil and erythromycin.  
After 8 infusions, no improvement.  She was getting horribly sore so I quit.

I have literally squirted everything I could think of into that poor goat, including gentle iodine...which oddly enough, seems to have done *something* b/c now the udder half that's affected is shrinking up like we wanted.  
(Or maybe I've 'killed' it w/ all my attempts...I dunno, but getting it to stop leaking / start shrinking was the goal.)

Thanks for the support, folks, I appreciate it...maybe if Hillary would stop looking so ready to keel over, I'll feel better.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 15, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> You ain't the only researchin' / readin' / tryin' new things fool out there, CM.


Uh, the technical term is "ignorant hillbilly who don't know no better."





> I have literally squirted everything I could think of into that poor goat, including gentle iodine...which oddly enough, seems to have done *something* b/c now the udder half that's affected is shrinking up like we wanted.


I squirted 7% iodine into a kid's naval hernia-ish thing (after cutting it open with a pocketknife  ) and it dried up pretty good after that..  Vet told me to do that..  Said they squirt big ol' honkin syringes into calves with 'incomplete closure of the umbilical ring' because it works really well at burning out whatever veins may be trying to live where they shouldn't..

Makes sense that it would kill an udder..  I think I've even read about dairy cattle folks intentionally killing recurrent-mastitic quarters with iodine..

Sooo, maybe if it gets to half-shriveled and 'hangs,' you light her up with some 7%?

Not suggesting, per se...just thinking out loud, I reckon..


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## jodief100 (Feb 15, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Uh, the technical term is "ignorant hillbilly who don't know no better."


If you are working in a barn wearing overalls, you are an "ignorant hillbilly".  If you are working in a lab wearing a white coat doing the same thing they call it "research scientist".  

I think we are getting a bum rap.  They get paid more too.  But Ill bet we get better benefits.  




Roll, how is Hillary doing?  I hope much better.


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## Roll farms (Feb 15, 2011)

Hillary is.......alive.

She's weak, shaky, but has never lost her appetite and still w/ me so....

I'm cautiously optimistic she will recover.


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## poorboys (Feb 16, 2011)

Hope both come out okay, as for the little ones their doing great!!! the doe is so dainty and she takes her sweet time on her bottle, we love em!!!! they are in with two of mine that are now about 3 weeks, so they are jumping all over the place.


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## Roll farms (Feb 16, 2011)

OK, I'm not really proud to be posting these pics, but thought I would for 'educational' purposes.

First off...*this* is Doodle's udder last year, the day she freshened.







Doodle standing up today while DH lured her w/ the feed scoop...this side of her udder looks "ok", right?  And isn't she just a pretty doe?











Ugh...now then....the lumps on the back of the udder.






And this pic shows the affected half, how much smaller / shrunken it is now.






I drained them all today after I took these pics.  
Now if only I could get the 'good' side to DRY UP so we could get the entire ugly thing removed.  *shudder*

Isn't it a crying shame that such a nice udder got ruined????


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 16, 2011)

It IS a shame, Roll.  She had a beautiful udder.  I also think it's valuable to post pics, I'm just so sorry you had the opportunity.  The one side looks like it is drying off though, that's promising.  I really hope this all works out...


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## ksalvagno (Feb 16, 2011)

Man, that is a shame. I hope you can get that one side dried off quick.


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## jodief100 (Feb 16, 2011)

I am so sorry you are going through this.   She has some nice genetics there so hopefully her babies will carry on that wonderful udder.  

She seems to be doing better, good luck. 

Is Hillary doing any better?


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## helmstead (Feb 16, 2011)

Wow...OUCH.  Thanks for sharing though, very educational.


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## mossyStone (Feb 16, 2011)

OUCH!!!!! Thanks for taking the time to post pictures.....


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 16, 2011)

POOR GIRL...thanks for posting the pics it is informative.  Its always nice to be able to see what people are talking about.  I personally have never seen an abcessed udder...so it helps for sure!!  She did have a beautiful udder.  

And she is a pretty doe for sure!!  

Hope she dries soon for her sake and yours!  That certainly is a darn 

shame though!


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## aggieterpkatie (Feb 16, 2011)

That's a shame.  Have you thought about using chlorhex to kill her good half?


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## Zanzabeez (Feb 16, 2011)

Rolls,

Oh, I am so sorry. Wow, what an incredable shame.  She really did have a beautiful udder.  

I hope you are able to get her dried up on the good side soon.  Will you have to remove both halves of her udder or just the affected side?

Btw, I have not been here long but I can easily tell that you are a great goat owner and that your goaties are lucky to have you.  

Tracy


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## chandasue (Feb 16, 2011)

Oh deary......   Thanks for posting the pics though.


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## Ariel301 (Feb 16, 2011)

That is sad, hopefully you can figure out a solution to be able to save her. With an udder like that, I'd be keeping a daughter from her. I've never heard of CL getting into an udder like that. 

I have a one-sided doe. When I bought her, I was told "She only milks on one side and we don't know why, she's always been that way." I didn't know much about goats, so I just thought, ok, whatever. The people I bought her from speculated that maybe she didn't have an orifice in the non-working teat. This was a dairy farm milking 90 does every day and also showing their animals. How they would not know whether or not a doe has an orifice in one teat....?  I took her home, found that there was an orifice, and that a little tiny bit of milk would come out. The next year when she freshened again, both sides filled, but the day after kidding, the bad side was hard, lumpy, and inflamed, and the milk coming out was stringy and brown. So, I treated her for the mastitis, and dried the side off. It is now a big solid lump of scar, and doesn't fill, but if I squeeze the teat a little of the nasty brown liquid always comes out. It seems to be somewhat painful to the touch as well. I think what happened is that she had mastitis for a long time and was never treated for it. A shame, since she milks a full gallon from the good half...she could have been an amazing milker with both sides. 

Here she is, dry. The big side is all rock hard.


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## Roll farms (May 3, 2011)

After a lot of agonizing, analyzing, and discussing it w/ the vet, we decided to put Doodle down tonight.

Instead of 'going away' the abscess that started in her udder went into her abdomen (like an internal abscess on steroids) and had grown to cover an area about 1' long.  

Between her age and other issues, it just didn't make sense to attempt to cut off her udder to remove the abscess / risk...only to have it keep spreading internally / risk losing her to the surgery...it's a risky operation for a goat in good health, much less a compromised one.

We said our goodbyes and this was a very sad day at our farm.

Rest in peace, Doo.

















That's 2 special Dolly daughters lost this year.


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## Livinwright Farm (May 3, 2011)

I am so sorry for your loss/losses this year... I sure hope you don't have any more!


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## elevan (May 3, 2011)

I am so sorry


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## Mo's palominos (May 3, 2011)

so sorry to hear about doodle


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## freemotion (May 3, 2011)




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## Holachicka (May 3, 2011)

I am so sorry! *hugs*


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## Our7Wonders (May 3, 2011)

I'm so sorry for your loss.  Doodle was a beautiful Doe.


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## redtailgal (May 4, 2011)

..............


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## helmstead (May 4, 2011)




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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 4, 2011)




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## jodief100 (May 4, 2011)




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## 20kidsonhill (May 4, 2011)

sorry Rolls


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## ksalvagno (May 4, 2011)

I'm so sorry.


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## PJisaMom (May 4, 2011)

I'm all teary for ya...


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## ThreeBoysChicks (May 4, 2011)

That is very sad!  But I am glad you share, because it helps us none experts learn.


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## jlbpooh (May 4, 2011)

She was a very pretty goat. I am sorry.


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## swest (May 5, 2011)

Sorry to hear that Kim...


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## happydodgefarm6113 (May 5, 2011)

You put so much love , time, heart, and patience into your Doodle. Thank you for sharing such an inspirational story. What a great goat.


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## sunfisher (May 5, 2011)

I'm so sorry.. I just read all of this for the first time. wish things could of turned out different for you.


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## cmjust0 (May 5, 2011)




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## Emmetts Dairy (May 5, 2011)

Im sooo sorry for you!    She was a beautiful girl.


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## Zanzabeez (May 5, 2011)

Oh no! I am so very sorry that you lost your beautiful Doodle.   

Tracy


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## warthog (May 5, 2011)

You did everything you could for her, she was lucky to have such a caring mum.  In the end the decision we all hope we never have to make, whilst extremely hard for you, of course is the right one for her.

RIP Doodle


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## rebelINny (May 5, 2011)

I am so sorry Rolls! How awful for you! I hope you have many years of "peace" with the goats.  your help and advice has been a HUGE help to me with my goats and I wish you well.


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