# Breeding LaMancha doelings-lots of questions!



## Araylee (Sep 3, 2010)

This is my first year with goats, I got two doelings in June, and I'm wondering when to breed them! I was shooting for this fall/winter if they can put on enough weight. The older girl was born in late February and is still quite a bit larger than her half-sister (born in late March). I was told that the mother of the younger one was slow-maturing and to expect her to take a while to round out *but that it would be worth the wait!* She has a nice arch to her udder and you can see the width in her escutcheon (is that the right term?) compared to her sister who is bigger! The younger just went through her first heat cycle a couple of days ago (Calling, tail wagging, and a little vaginal discharge) and I haven't seen signs of heat in the older. The second day of her heat, I went outside to check on the girls and the little one actually looked deflated-I was HORRIFIED at how SKINNY she looked compared to her normal ruminating self! The next day all was well again, so I guess she was just off her feed from being in heat, but I was definitely suprised!
Is October going to be too early to breed the big 'un? (she would be 8 months at the end of the month.) I don't want to breed them when they are TOO small, but I definitely want milk next spring-it's the whole reason we bought dairy goats! *grin* So, for those that breed your dairy goats the first year, do you breed by age, or always by weight? And, if I use my sewing tape  is there a "weight conversion" somewhere online that I can use? 
I've been feeding them all-you-can-eat alfalfa w/ a little grass hay thrown in, fresh water, loose minerals, occasional licorice-flavored goat treats, and about 2 cups each of Purina Goat Chow daily. (And they do get let out to munch down the weeds and otherwise eat what they can find, plus DH cuts down tree limbs for them.) Last night I bought BOSS but I am not sure how much to feed them at this point?? PGC is the only goat chow I could find at my local feed store. They do have a "milkers ration"which I suppose we'll switch to once they are pregnant. Do any of you mix your own COB mix?-Is it cheaper to do it that way? I feel kinda dumb feeding them a goat chow that has alfalfa pellets in it, because I have good quality leafy weedy alfalfa hay to feed them.

ALSO: We have talked about starting a commercial dairy. That is a long time in the future, however, it is important to me to use the best buck we can afford and breed up. So, my DH thinks it would be a brilliant idea to just AI the girls. While I know a lot about AI in COWS, it's a whole different ball of wax than AI in goats. Does anybody here DO AI on goats? I'm thinking it's going to cost approx. $200-$300- for a used cryo tank, plus fillling it with nitro, taking classes, and then the cost of semen...but that's not really too much more expensive than the $100/per doe plus $2/day plus CAE/CL bloodwork that we are looking at to get them bred locally to a halfway decent buck..and I can find REALLY nice semen online from some of the top LaMancha bucks in the nation. What do DO??
**We do not plan on showing, and if it's possible I'd love to keep as much of a closed herd as possible-AI would help with that plan!**

Thanks so much for your input, I know I have a lot to learn.


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## Araylee (Sep 3, 2010)

UPDATE: Found a wonderful woman in town who will teach me to AI for free. So, need to find a small inexpensive tank and look into getting an AI kit, and have hubby build me a stanchion. In October the cryogenics people are coming to town and will have semen for sale...so, there ya go! YEAH!! Now I just have to fatten up my girls-the woman I talked to said a heart girth of 30" is good to go, and my girls are only 27-28" right now. Grow babies grow! I'm so excited to have good, non-related, non-local semen to use on my girls! (It seems like EVERYBODY who has LaManchas in this state are all related!)

Bianca


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## cmjust0 (Sep 3, 2010)

In standard-sized breeds, the determination of readiness for breeding is usually estimated by weight...70lbs.

To me, though...a 70lb standard breed goat is just WAAAAAAY too small looking to feel good about breeding her.

I usually weight until their 2nd fall, where they're in the 15-18mo age range.

That's me, though.


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## Calliopia (Sep 3, 2010)

If you HAVE to breed them this year, I'd do it much closer to the end of Dec or early Jan.   You risk missing their last heat of the winter but our Lamancha was bred around New Years in the midst of the LOVELY winter we had so she was still cycling at that point. 

Also be willing to write off a year in the long term interest of your goats.  If they aren't big enough you could risk the kids and the doe and then you'll be out goats and milk. 

But if everybody looks healthy and big enough then you should be able to breed late fall/early winter of this year.   jmo-though.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 3, 2010)

Bear in mind, though, that if you wait until the very last moment to breed them, their kids will be itty bitty when *their* first fall rolls around.  And if you're looking to sell those kids, other folks will be in the same boat you're in...or they'll already have bought their kids for the year.

Just sayin'.  Things to consider.  

We bred really late last year and kidded late this Spring...NEVER AGAIN.  I'd rather deal with the cold than the heat, and our kids were really coming on pasture juuuuuuuuust about the same time as my arch-enemy, the barberpole worm, was really starting to pick up steam.

On a calm night, I swear you could hear all the barberpole larvae on pasture saying...."eeeeeeeeexcellent," in their best Mr. Burns voices.

:/


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## Shiloh Acres (Sep 3, 2010)

Glad you asked this. I have two does and two doelings, and had planned to hold the doelings over. One I will for sure. The used-to-be-tiny bottle baby is thriving now though, and well passed the older doeling in size (3 months younger). She's mixed too, so it could be the other breeds. But she's strong and sassy, and I'm very pleased with how she's coming along. I was starting to toy with the idea of breeding her in winter, IF she's big enough, IF she's cycling, and IF the buckling is interested/willing. 

I'm glad to have more pros and cons to think about. A year's worth of milk, especially from a FF, is not such a huge deal (easy for me to say I know since I have two does -- I was sure out there milking 2x a day on them even when I might only get 8oz!). But -- many factors to consider. 

Glad you mentioned the weanlings and barberpole season, CM. After my battle with them this summer, that is very likely to sway my decision.


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## Araylee (Sep 3, 2010)

Thanks guys!  Calliopia-When you say "lovely winter" do you mean "freeze your *** off cold with record snow, or do you mean "Almost no snow, and lots of sunshine with unseasonably warm weather"?  We are going to have a wet, nasty, lots and lots of record-breaking snow kinda winter this year. I don't want no January babies! (Which is what I would get if I bred in September!) I am due with my OWN baby #4 at the end of December, which is also influencing me to wait. Who wants a newborn baby while possibly bottle-feeding kids in freezing temps? No thanks! Then again, a couple of years ago when we had record snowfall in over a hundred years, it snowed in June. So I'm not really sure when barberpole season is going to even start! I'm leaning towards November. I might even be able to see past my own gut enough to DO the AI in November!

You guys have some good points about waiting until they are 18 months old to make SURE they are mature, but it's kind of hard for me to wait twenty two months of owning them before we get milk. There's over a thousand dollars just in feed and bedding there, not to mention vet care and numerous odds n ends! We just spent $60.00 at the feed store for a package of bedding, (chopped straw, they were out of regular straw bales) a 50lb bag of BOSS and a bag of goat chow. Two months from now and we will be back in there. I'm buying hay by the ton, but we need to buy another $120 ton of third cutting to get us through the winter. Which is fine, I anticipated about a dollar/day/goat. But, I also thought I would be getting milk next spring. As much as I love their little goatie personalities, and love spending time watching them frolic, we can't afford to feed and pay vet care for a pet this size without some kind of return to us. Breeding them in November/December means saleable kids next spring, milk for me to drink, milk to make soap with, etc. And I'm not willing to buy any ole' diseased and abused scrub goat off Craigslist to get it. *shudder* So I think I will definitely be looking at breeding the larger February baby in November and see how the smaller March baby is coming along in December. They'd both be nine months at those times, and that's as late as I can go without making DH do the AI because I'm holed up inside with the new baby.   

CMjust0-yeah we bought late kids because we weren't ready to get them earlier in the season, The benefit was that they were two of the 15 best kids the breeder held back for their own use. They decided to keep 13 and took FOREVER to deliberate on who to sell to me-so I am assured that I got the pick of the litter.  Also, they were big enough that the older one was weaned and the smaller one weaned herself when we bought her. My hope is that somebody will be looking for a goat kid come June of NEXT year! *grin*


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## mistee (Sep 5, 2010)

I had a doe this year kid when she was still under a year old.. The lady I bought her from knew she was bred but was worried she was going to have probs kidding since she was so young.. She got a beautiful udder but never showed signs she was going to kid.. I checked her at 1 and she was grazing w/ the other girls,, went back at a little before 2 and she was in the barn w/ a little buckling dry and nursing.. She did an amazing job!!!

Personally I still wouldnt breed a doe under a year old but that is just my opinion.. The doe I mentiond is still very tiny even for a Nigerian dwarf ,, she isn't much bigger then my 6 month old does.. I don;t know if this is because she was bred so young or not...

If you can't wait can you possibly get another older doe to breed so you can get milk next year?

Everyone has their opinions but only you know your goats..... Consult your vet get his/her opinion..


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