# Jenny as herd protector



## that's*satyrical (Nov 28, 2011)

I heard a Jenny was better than a Jack. Does anyone know the reason for this? Also, does a Jenny require training like a dog or is it just instinct for them? If I were to look for one are there diseases or testing or anything that should be done that I should be on the lookout for? Anything else I should be aware of? Do they eat a lot & what do they eat? Anything besides hay? Thanks.

Edited to add one more question: Do you think it would be better to start with a "baby" to grow & bond with the goats or an older adult that has been there, done that.


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## elevan (Nov 28, 2011)

Instinct is important as a number 1 ingredient in any livestock guardian.

I believe that they all need trained but I'm not schooled in donkeys.  I would venture a guess that jennies are considered better than jacks because of hormones.  Testosterone can make jacks overly aggressive toward their charges.


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## ksalvagno (Nov 28, 2011)

I can't speak for donkeys but I wouldn't be surprised if they were the same as llamas. You want a proven guard animal that is over a certain age (like in llamas over 3 years old). Probably the biggest thing would be that it likes what it is guarding and it has already proven that it has guarding tendencies. Also, I think a jack would be fine if he was gelded. If you use a llama or donkey as a guard, you should NEVER use an intact male. Their hormones kick in and they will breed what is in the field.

For llamas and probably a donkey, there isn't a way to train them to be guards, that is a natural instinct. But you would want to train them so you can halter and lead them, trim toenails, give shots, etc.

Also, if you would get a female, then don't breed her. She will protect her own baby before protecting the other animals and may even protect her baby against the animals that she should be guarding. A guard animal should always be a non-breeding animal.


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## goodhors (Nov 28, 2011)

You will want to get a Coggins Test done, to make sure she is not carrying Equine Infectious Anemia.
Disease is incurable, carriers transmit with flies and biting insects so you want to not spread disease
to others.  

You should ask about vaccinations, if she has had any, what they are.  Your location 
nationally, may cause you to get some vaccinations there, but not up north, or yes in the East, no
in the West.  

I would recommend Rabies in most locations, to protect YOUR FAMILY if equine should get bit.  If you 
have a horsey neighborhood, probably the flu vaccine, Tetnus for sure and the EE diseases because they
also spread by biting insects.  Those would be Eastern, Western, Venezualan, Equine Encephephalitus (SP), 
which generally  are abreviated EEE, WEE, VEE.  Though rare, they can be transmitted to humans so I 
always vaccinate for them.  Probably consulting with your local Vet would give you the best idea 
on what is needed to be safe.  You can probably give all the vaccines yourself, it is cheaper.  But with 
needing blood for Coggins test, the Vet will need to visit.

Depending on your ground, hard, rocky, soft fields, the donkey will need hoof attention.  Soft ground won't
wear the hooves down, so more visits from a Farrier will be needed to keep hooves in good shape.  Make
the visits regularly spaced apart so she doesn't get ignored or forgotten.  Work with her feet so she is well
behaved about it.  Some of the BLM donkeys just never are good with feet, so that requires a Vet visit to 
tranquilize them for safety, in getting trims done.

In my experience, the jenny is the better guardian animal.  No gelding or intact male donkeys.  Even then jennys 
may not ALL be good guardian animals.  Most are, and this means ANY DOG, and sometimes all the other small 
animals at a farm like birds, cats, can be "evil" to be dealt harshly with.  You may want to go back thru the 
Equine posts on donkeys, get an idea of how they think and relate.  NOT like horses for sure.  They can be 
very nice to have, but unless they understand CLEARLY what you want, they may not cooperate well.  Just how
they operate.  Forcing them has no good results over the long term.


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## that's*satyrical (Nov 28, 2011)

Thanks for all the info. May be worth it to just put up some electric fencing. All of the LG's seem like a lot of work & monetary expense.


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## Ms. Research (Nov 29, 2011)

that's*satyrical said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the info. May be worth it to just put up some electric fencing. All of the LG's seem like a lot of work & monetary expense.


Some things men can not provide.  And a good LGD is worth his/her weight in gold.  Wishing you luck with your fence.  I prefer an alarm system.  And LGD's whether dog, donkey, llama, they make noise.   I've seen wild animals jump and get through with no problem with electric fences.  They learn as well as your animals learn.  Same thing.

Just one more thing, a dog will start being alerted within 50 yards.  Fences just can't do that.  You don't want to do anything less than stopping the stalk.  

But to each his own.  I wish you all the best with your fence to protect your herd.  

K


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## goodhors (Nov 29, 2011)

Any kind of protection system, electric or animal, is going to cost you money and time.  What you 
have to figure out is if you can take the losses by not using certain kinds of protection systems.
Can you afford to lose everything in the flock?  How about 50%?  You may have a couple pet 
animals you milk or shear, or a couple hundred that produce lambs and wool.  They may all need
protection to keep them alive in dangerous locations.  Dangerous can be the suburbs!!

I put my sheep inside at night.  We usually only have a couple market lambs, so they take little 
room or effort to manage DAILY.  Led in and out, keep the tank full, graze the field.  Not out for
any wandering dogs, coyotes to kill at night.  Days I am outside most of the time, easily keep an 
eye on them to see problems.  Cost is time handling them.

Other folks don't have those options, have to ramp up the protection "tools" needed.  Those animals are
producers, generate large amounts of INCOME that they depend upon.

Electric netting is pretty expensive, would be costly to fence field sized grazing for numerous animals.
Lots of reasons electric fences of any kind go bad, and you may not even know it until stocky gets out
or damaged.  You have purchase price, electric cost, time checking fences to keep them maintained
and working at all times as your ongoing cost.

Various types of livestock guardians is purchase and upkeep, which includes Vet type costs of worming, 
vaccination costs (if you give them yourself), hay or food.  Perhaps shearing and foot care for the llama, 
foot care and related expenses for the donkey or donkeys.  Costs here can vary widely with how much
you can do yourself, or must hire done.  Locally ALL DOGS are required to have Vet administered Rabies
shots, to have proof to have the licensed.  ALL DOGS are required to be licensed by the State, and they have
folks who go about checking your Rabies and License paperwork to make sure it is current.  If not, heavy 
fines.  You can give dogs any other vaccinations you feel are needed, yourself.  You can shear and trim 
hooves on llamas and donkey yourself or hire it done.  Just that it NEEDS to be done to keep the animals
able to move, to protect your flocks.   

Benefits of the Guardians is that they are working for you ALL the time, whatever the weather.  They do not
short out in deep snow, heavy rain, tall grass.  They can make "judgement calls" on how to best protect
the flock depending on various situations.  Fencing only protects by animals touching it, can't do anything else.

I have friends in production sheep raising, and they have gotten the donkey guardians.  Since then they have
had NO LOSSES to any predators.  One woman was having severe predation to suburb dogs from the neighbors
who let them run loose.  She has a niche market with raising lambs for the ethnic folks in a nearby city.  Lambs
are $100 each, so losing 5 or 10 is a HUGE bite to the income!!  And before her donkeys came, the dogs were 
just tearing up the adult sheep as well, so she lost them to severe wounds along with lambs they carried.  Fencing 
didn't stop the dogs, they went over, under or thru it, despite electric wires.  She grins hard now when the Vet 
comes to tranq the donkeys for hoof trimming.  Smiles as she pays the hoof trimmer, because those outside 
service expenses allow her to sell ALL her lambs, no flock losses at all.  She considers the cost of donkeys cheap
when compared to her losses before the donkeys came.  She got BLM donkeys, which let her pet them, halter
them, but not really pets.  They are working animals, have enough size at 12-13H, to be effective on big predators.  

Sorry, the cute little mini donkey will probably be out of her league if faced with big dogs.  Just not enough of her.

Same thing with other friends who do production lambing.  Their market is show lambs, who usually go for about
$150 a head for wethers, more for the registered ewe lambs.  Their ewes and rams are EXPENSIVE animals.  They
got a pair of BLM donkeys as they decided to increase the flocks, as preventative care.  They hadn't had any 
torn up animals or dead stock, but others in the County had.  Seems like the BLM donkey cost about $25 then, 
and "you are giving it a good home" advertising caught their attention.  They shopped at one of the BLM stopping
points and brought home two jennys.  Jennys have since gotten very tame, easy to lead and handle, but ALL BUSINESS
when there is a dog around.  Owners say they have no idea how many problems "never happened" because the 
donkeys were always working and kept the flocks safe.  While donkey may look lazy and funny standing about, they are
the DEVIL ON WHEELS when it comes to predators.  Armed with teeth and 4 hooves, FAST, not many will stand to face an angry donkey.
Folks raise their own hay, keep the donkeys pretty trim, not fat, so they are athletic enough to handle dogs.  They 
think the cost of one lamb covers everything the  donkeys need in expenses for a year.  Pretty cheap insurance 
for 24 hour coverage, year around on a whole flock of registered sheep.

I have other friends who all say the same thing.  If you have any amount of sheep or goats, you NEED some kind
of protection animal.

So figuring your expenses and time to keep up the protection for the flock, needs to include how much protection
that involves.  Locally the dogs are not common choices.  We just have too many people around, they don't stay 
with their flocks.  Donkey and llama have been the best flock choices for protection around here.


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## that's*satyrical (Nov 29, 2011)

Interesting. I was thinking a good shocker wire around the top & mid-lower of the fence line rather than netting. It's fairly inexpensive to do that & animals can sense the pulse they don't even need to get zapped most times. I can close my does in at night, most of the chickens/guineas get closed in at night (they do if they go in the coop I don't chase them down) I guess the problem I have with the LGD is there is a lot of time/money put into it that won't necessarily work out unless you have a proven one. I'm guessing most people once they have a good one are NOT going to sell it to someone. At least with the fence you know what you are getting. The guineas are somewhat of a guard as far as noise & so is our chocolate lab that is usually out at night (though not in with the animals) I would get an LGD in a heartbeat if I knew for a fact it was going to be a good investment, but animals are never for certain as far as their behavior. I also have time, but not a ton of time for training. I have little ones, a house & lots of animals to keep up with as well as a part time job outside the house.


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## aggieterpkatie (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm not a fan of donkeys as guardians at all.  I personally had a bad experience and won't ever recommend them as guardians.  I think donkeys are incredibly smart equines and they need equine companionship.  I think they tend to get bored, and mine started hating the other animals.


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## Bossroo (Nov 30, 2011)

One of my neighbors owns over 30 ewes that produce about 40-50 lambs a year. Many coyotes in the area that usually kill about 10-15 lambs a year.  Fences are 5 1/5' high ( 4' field fence with 3 strands of barbed wire  ( 1 at bottome 2 on top) .   3 years ago they got a young 2 1/2 year old female donkey ( was raised with sheep)  who did pretty well in protecting the flock for about a year and a half. One night she decided that lambs were rag dolls to be tossed around just for fun... overnight result, 11 dead lambs, 8 with brocken limbs that had to be put down or too crippled to never amounted to anything worth keeping. Donkey SOLD immediately, rifle purchased to supplement shotgun, poison bait ( from County)  and Border Collie.


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