# Selenium question



## taraann81 (Dec 15, 2009)

I have a 3 year old doe who has kidded twins twice before.  

We bought her possibly bred (no idea when) but  she is getting quite big and we switched her to a brand of feed called 16% "just kidding" dry dairy goat ration pellet made by Shur-Gain.  

I was going to give her a selenium shot but then noticed the feed bag cautioned not to give supplemental selenium while on this feed.  

I live in Ontario, Canada and our soil tends to be selenium deficient.

But from what I've read it seems to be common practice to give selenium injections to pregnant does in selenium deficient areas.

So I shouldn't give it?  Or I should?

The bag doesn't show the amount of selenium in the ration.

Thanks!


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## Rock Farmer (Dec 15, 2009)

I know that adding sunflower seeds to their diet will add selenium.  I do not know how much it will add to her system but sunflowers are loaded with selenium.  I mix the seeds in with my goats feed and they love it.  No systematic approach to how much, I just do it by eye.  It is loaded with fiber and is good for them in general.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 16, 2009)

Here is some info for you
www.tennesseemeatgoats.com has wonderful articles to read

oh if the bag says do not give the shot while feeding...then don't.  Research the feed, maybe email the manufacturer and resquest info on that issue.




SELENIUM DEFICIENCY AND TOXICITY

Selenium Deficiency

Selenium is a trace mineral present in the soil in varying amounts around the world. In the United States, soil is selenium-deficient in parts of the Pacific Northwest, from the Great Lakes region to the New England states, and along the Eastern Seaboard into Florida. Local agricultural extension services usually maintain soil maps that indicate selenium levels. Because selenium levels can vary greatly within an area, testing the soil's selenium content is recommended. Soil is considered "selenium deficient" when there is less than 0.5mg of selenium per kg of soil.

Soil selenium levels affect this mineral's absorption by growing plants that are ultimately eaten by goats. Proper selenium levels are necessary for goats to reproduce, lactate, give birth, urinate, and have properly functioning muscles. Symptoms of selenium deficiency are similar to those of Vitamin E deficiency. White Muscle Disease, also known as Nutritional Muscular Dystrophy, is a condition in which kids are too weak to stand or suckle at birth, they consistently cough, milk sometimes runs out of their nose after nursing, and they develop pneumonia because of muscle weakness in their lungs. In adults, abortions, stillbirths, retained placenta, or inability to conceive may result from selenium deficiency.

Selenium is routinely added to processed grain by feed mills, but the amount permitted by US law may be insufficient for some areas. Therefore, many producers obtain a veterinary prescription for either injectable or oral supplements. Dosages vary by region and should be discussed with a knowledgeable vet, but the following is a general outline of how many producers supplement their goats with adequate selenium levels:

Shortly before breeding season, give all adults, including breeding bucks, injectable selenium (BoSe). Bucks should receive BoSe injections at least twice a year. Pregnant does are again supplemented with BoSe four to six weeks before kidding. Kids are injected with BoSe at birth, again at one month of age, and if the soil is very selenium deficient, injections are repeated at two and at three months of age. Use the "minimum dosage" at birth. Although BoSe is not approved for use in goats, producers generally use twice the labeled sheep dosage. Discuss your goats' needs in detail with your local vet and agricultural extension service representative.

Selenium Toxicity

Selenium has a very narrow margin of safety. Goats require 0.2 parts per million of selenium, and the toxic level is 3 ppm. Some symptoms of selenium deficiency are identical to those of selenium toxicity. A doe's failure to conceive can be the result of either selenium deficiency or toxicity. Kidney failure, stillbirth, and abortions also may be attributable to either end of this spectrum. By contrast, hair loss in the beard and flank regions and cracks and deformities in horns and hooves may reveal an overabundance of selenium in the goat's diet. Over-concentrations of selenium occur in parts of North Dakota, South Dakota, Nevada, Idaho, California, Arizona, New Mexico, and adjacent states. See your local agricultural extension agent for information on concentrations in your area. Certain "indicator" plants reveal a toxic level of selenium in the soil. Some species of Astragalus (locoweed) indicate the presence of high levels of soil-based selenium. Goats actually become addicted to these plants if they are not completely removed from this forage.

Symptoms of severe selenium toxicity include impaired vision and staggering ("blind staggers"), rear legs which won't support the body, then muscle weakness in the front legs, and progressive weight loss. Each of these symptoms can also be symptoms of other illnesses, so the producer should determine his area's selenium conditions in advance to avoid an incorrect diagnosis..

Once a goat has severe selenium toxicity, there is no known effective treatment. Removing the affected animal from the area where the problem occurred and performing supportive therapy is the best chance of saving the goat. Goats affected by selenium toxicity remain bright, alert, and are eating well up to the time of death.


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## taraann81 (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks for the info.  I guess I will consult my vet and see what other goat people are doing in regards to the selenium.  Thanks for the great link.


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2009)

That is your best plan, contact well respected breeders in your area and see if they're giving BoSe.

For reference, I live in a deficient area also.  I feed a feed with EXTRA selenium for our area (made specifically for GA), we use a selenium rich mineral...and we still have to give BoSe regularly.

You should find out the same info about copper bolusing, also...for some reason where there's selenium issues, there are also copper issues.


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## ()relics (Dec 16, 2009)

I feed a ration specifically formulated for goats, both for nutrition and minerals.  I give BoSe to all my does 4-6 weeks before kidding and to all new kids at 10 or so days when they are initially processed,cd/t,dehorn.  I would check with your area breeders/vets ,as HS said, but I still think I would give a BoSe dose, several times a year....JMO


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## FarmerChick (Dec 16, 2009)

don't be giving BoSe or any injections that require true research of the problem.  Just injecting on "maybe" is not worthe the problems that might coincide.    Know your enemy if needed.

again part of this article base




BoSe and MuSe - Vet prescriptions are required for both products. ( MuSe should not be used with goats; it is too strong and is a horse medication. Use BoSe with goats.) Injectable medication for selenium deficiency. Since selenium deficiency exists at different levels throughout the United States, it is critical to follow your veterinarian's directions on the usage of these products, as well as supplemental loose minerals containing selenium.  Most of the East Coast, down to Florida and westward through the Great Lakes region, plus the West Coast, including California and parts of Nevada and Idaho, are selenium deficient to different degrees. Selenium deficiency shows itself in goats most often in the form of weak rear legs in kids. Older goats look "pathetic," don't put on weight, have weak legs, and generally stay in poor condition and poor health. Selenium deficiency causes Nutritional Muscular Dystrophy (White Muscle Disease).


Selenium is toxic at low dosages, and the dosing margin of safety is narrow. The addition of selenium to feed is controlled by US law. In some areas, producers only need to provide loose minerals containing selenium. In other regions, selenium injections are necessary. When injections are required, they are usually given at birth and again at one month of age (one-half cc IM). Pregnant does usually receive injections four to six weeks before kidding, and bucks usually are vaccinated twice a year. Adult dosage of BoSe is 2-1/2 cc per 100 lbs bodyweight given IM. It is critical that producers understand that selenium supplements must be determined and supervised by your veterinarian because selenium levels vary widely across the USA.


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2009)

FarmerChick said:
			
		

> don't be giving BoSe or any injections that require true research of the problem.  Just injecting on "maybe" is not worthe the problems that might coincide.    Know your enemy if needed.


Luckily, the OP obviously intends to consult the 'experts'.  Keep comin' back!


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## FarmerChick (Dec 16, 2009)

OP never mentioned BoSe
another poster did and I just said....check the enemy before you inject---with a vet or any other soil sample etc. to know your true enemy with regards to minerals and nutrition etc.


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2009)

Injecting selenium and giving a selenium supplement really are no different...it will all get absorbed and if you've overdone it you've overdone it.  That said...

...BoSo is the standard for supplementing selenium, gels and other feed throughs cannot be considered good supplementation in deficient areas because you don't know how much they're actually getting.  Kind of like injectable dewormers opposed to paste.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 16, 2009)

Do you really inject BoSe IM? I always thought it would be SQ. Wouldn't you want it to slowly absorb? We were always told to do SQ for alpacas.


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## ()relics (Dec 16, 2009)

.....injection just describes the delivery method and can be either IM-intermuscular or SubQ- subcutaneous or IV- intervenous


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