# CD-T Injection Site Abscess



## Angeliki Manouselis

All 5 of my goats got their CD-T vaccines done almost 3 weeks ago.
No reactions, everyone has been acting normal.
I am still new to goats and this was my first time with injections so I had my friend who is a vet tech do them SQ while I held my goats and watched.  She decided to do all right hind legs. Which now I know I should have insisted she do the shoulder/armpit area. But what do I know?
So now today I feel like a horrible goat keeper because I just noticed my 2 month old doeling has what I am guessing after looking online, is an injection site abscess, on her right rear leg.  She is acting normal, playing, eating, bright eyed, not even limping at all... 

*I took a photo after I put betadine on it so it looks bloody and worst but it was not bleeding, just open and raw.*

Can anyone confirm this is what it is?  Should I just keep an eye on it and keep it clean and keep putting betadine on it?  Antibiotics would just null and void the CD-T right?   They are all due to get the booster done this Wednesday, should I have my friend do them in the correct area now?
Thank you
——————


----------



## Rammy

@OneFineAcre @Devonviolet @goatgurl


----------



## AmberLops

@B&B Happy goats @Southern by choice Help!


----------



## Southern by choice

If that is where the vaccine was given then I'd say yes. Keep it clean like you are with the betadine.  You can put some triple antibiotic on it as well (ointment). Watch it  and definitely spray some fly spray - the screw worm spray goes on blue so you know you are getting the area you need.

Some vaccines tend to give more lumps/abscesses than others.  
Location - I prefer over the ribs. This way you know it is not in a CL area.


----------



## Southern by choice

BTW I do have one line that reacts to CDT by always getting a small abscess. It is just the one line. I also am picky about the brand I give. One brand gave all my goats a lump that got nasty. I still with the simple plain Goat Vac CD&T. I don't do 8 way or anything like that.


----------



## Angeliki Manouselis

Southern by choice said:


> BTW I do have one line that reacts to CDT by always getting a small abscess. It is just the one line. I also am picky about the brand I give. One brand gave all my goats a lump that got nasty. I still with the simple plain Goat Vac CD&T. I don't do 8 way or anything like that.



 Thank you for the info! 
Think it’s ok to vaccinate her with the booster again Wednesday? Or should I start all over  once the abscess heals?


----------



## OneFineAcre

Most abscesses at an injection site for CD&T vaccine are a reaction to the vaccine.
That doesn't look like they typical abscess at least not what we have experienced.
Typically a CD&T vaccine produces a "sterile" abscess.

_"Some *abscesses* are caused by an irritant like an injected medication that was not completely absorbed. Since they're not caused by infection, these kinds of *abscesses* are called “*sterile*” *abscesses*. *Sterile abscesses* aren't as common as infected *abscesses*, but they can occur on occasion."_

They typically go away on their own.
Yours looks like an infected abscess.


----------



## Southern by choice

@OneFineAcre  would you give the booster or not? I don't think I would.  It is also hard to see the size. When we have had one it is about the size of a dime/nickel... it has scabbed over them oozed. 

@Angeliki Manouselis  send a pic to your vet and ask them. When in doubt always call your vet.


----------



## Angeliki Manouselis

OneFineAcre said:


> Most abscesses at an injection site for CD&T vaccine are a reaction to the vaccine.
> That doesn't look like they typical abscess at least not what we have experienced.
> Typically a CD&T vaccine produces a "sterile" abscess.
> 
> _"Some *abscesses* are caused by an irritant like an injected medication that was not completely absorbed. Since they're not caused by infection, these kinds of *abscesses* are called “*sterile*” *abscesses*. *Sterile abscesses* aren't as common as infected *abscesses*, but they can occur on occasion."_
> 
> They typically go away on their own.
> Yours looks like an infected abscess.


I feel so bad. I will keep treating it and skip her booster.


----------



## Southern by choice

It could have happened anywhere not because it was on the back leg.
It happens, don't fret over it too much.


----------



## Angeliki Manouselis

Southern by choice said:


> It could have happened anywhere not because it was on the back leg.
> It happens, don't fret over it too much.



I just cleaned it for the second time today and it looks better it has scabbed over


----------



## rachels.haven

I'm no pro, and it's ultimately your choice but I'd advise probably not skipping the booster in 3-4 weeks. You've already had her body do half the work, she's almost done being "CDTed" for the year, and next year she will only have to do it once if you finish it now. But whatever you wind up doing, she will recover from this abscess.


----------



## Devonviolet

.


rachels.haven said:


> I'm no pro, and it's ultimately your choice but I'd advise probably not skipping the booster in 3-4 weeks. You've already had her body do half the work, she's almost done being "CDTed" for the year, and next year she will only have to do it once if you finish it now. But whatever you wind up doing, she will recover from this abscess.


I agree. She needs the second injection to receive the full immunity  for the three potential infections. I would think NOT doing the 2nd injection would be akin to not taking a full course of antibiotics. You could end up with more potent (untreatable) infection.

I use the BAR VAC CD/T vaccine, by Boehringer Ingelheim. I have never had a lump, for my goats . . . Until the last dose, which I gave to April. It was a new bottle. I cleaned the site with a saturated alcohol wipe, that I make with pieces of fresh/clean paper towel. I did not rub the spot last time. So, I wonder if that could have had something to do with that? Although I have read that some goat and sheep owners say they rub the injection site and still get a lump.

When I worked as a nurse, I always rubbed the injection site, to distribute the med in the tissue and not leave a pocket of med, to irritate tissue. It also prevents the med from leaking out the hole made by the needle.  I gave Calendula her one month CDT injection last night. Before the injection, I used a paper towel (1/2 of a half sheet folded) saturated alcohol wipe,  and rubbed it really well afterwards. It did not leave a lump.


----------



## Devonviolet

I'm glad to hear the infection is clearing up & getting a scab on it.

I used to do wound care in the hospital and in home health. If I had a wound like that, I would first draw up Normal Saline in at least a 35cc syringe and flush the wound good with that. Then I would draw up some Povidone Iodine and flush the wound with that. Allow it to air dry (which shouldn't take long) and then apply a gob of antibiotic ointment (Generic Neosporin) and leave it open to air.

ETA: Fly spray is an excellent idea. Flies seem to be attracted to open wounds and you don’t want them laying eggs in the wound.


----------



## Angeliki Manouselis

Devonviolet said:


> .
> 
> I agree. She needs the second injection to receive the full immunity  for the three potential infections. I would think NOT doing the 2nd injection would be akin to not taking a full course of antibiotics. You could end up with more potent (untreatable) infection.
> 
> I use the BAR VAC CD/T vaccine, by Boehringer Ingelheim. I have never had a lump, for my goats . . . Until the last dose, which I gave to April. It was a new bottle. I cleaned the site with a saturated alcohol wipe, that I make with pieces of fresh/clean paper towel. I did not rub the spot last time. So, I wonder if that could have had something to do with that? Although I have read that some goat and sheep owners say they rub the injection site and still get a lump.
> 
> When I worked as a nurse, I always rubbed the injection site, to distribute the med in the tissue and not leave a pocket of med, to irritate tissue. It also prevents the med from leaking out the hole made by the needle.  I gave Calendula her one month CDT injection last night. Before the injection, I used a paper towel (1/2 of a half sheet folded) saturated alcohol wipe,  and rubbed it really well afterwards. It did not leave a lump.


Thank you, I will give it to her then. But in a different spot of course. And will rub it because I don’t think my friend did that.


----------



## Devonviolet

Angeliki Manouselis said:


> Thank you, I will give it to her then. But in a different spot of course. And will rub it because I don’t think my friend did that.


I would do it on the opposite side, from where the wound is.


----------



## Sheepshape

Sorry to hear about what has happened. She WILL get better and does need her second dose.

In Britain we use a heptavalent vaccine (yes, 7 ag,ve had little gents in one), and give the vaccines into the loose skin at the side of the neck subcutaneously. I have had granulomas up to about 1cm in diameter, but never any abscesses. As part of the vaccine is live, skin antiseptics should not be used, but I clean up the needles in boiled water after every animal and thoroughly sterile the injecting equipment prior to use.

To get an abscess may be down to 'dirty' techniques for injecting, but also can be down to just bad luck.

Try not to worry and get on with the second injection.


----------



## Sheepshape

Sorry to hear about what has happened. She WILL get better and does need her second dose.

In Britain we use a heptavalent vaccine (yes, 7 agents had little gents in one), and give the vaccines into the loose skin at the side of the neck subcutaneously. I have had granulomas up to about 1cm in diameter, but never any abscesses. As part of the vaccine is live, skin antiseptics should not be used, but I clean up the needles in boiled water after every animal and thoroughly sterile the injecting equipment prior to use.

To get an abscess may be down to 'dirty' techniques for injecting, but also can be down to just bad luck.

Try not to worry and get on with the second injection.


----------



## Sheepshape

Sorry to hear about what has happened. She WILL get better and does need her second dose.

In Britain we use a heptavalent vaccine (yes, 7 agents in one), and give the vaccines into the loose skin at the side of the neck subcutaneously. I have had granulomas up to about 1cm in diameter, but never any abscesses. As part of the vaccine is live, skin antiseptics should not be used, but I clean up the needles in boiled water after every animal and thoroughly sterile the injecting equipment prior to use.

To get an abscess may be down to 'dirty' techniques for injecting, but also can be down to just bad luck.

Try not to worry and get on with the second injection.


----------



## OneFineAcre

We give ours in the leg.  The leg is a perfectly acceptable place to give the injection, so that's not what caused it.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> It could have happened anywhere not because it was on the back leg.
> It happens, don't fret over it too much.



x 2


----------



## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> @OneFineAcre  would you give the booster or not? I don't think I would.  /QUOTE]
> Probably not.


----------



## Sheepshape

Sorry to hear about what has happened. She WILL get better and does need her second dose.

In Britain we use a heptavalent vaccine (yes, 7 agents in one), and give the vaccines into the loose skin at the side of the neck subcutaneously. I have had granulomas up to about 1cm in diameter, but never any abscesses. As part of the vaccine is live, skin antiseptics should not be used, but I clean up the needles in boiled water after every animal and thoroughly sterile the injecting equipment prior to use.

To get an abscess may be down to 'dirty' techniques for injecting, but also can be down to just bad luck.

Try not to worry and get on with the second injection.


----------



## Angeliki Manouselis

Thank you all for the feedback. I’m happy to say that treating baby Star with betadine twice a day helped and the abscess is completely healed now and she did get her vaccine booster and is good for the year. 
Sad to say all my goats ended up with a lump from this CDT vax and my adult dwarf doe Lizzy ended up with an abscess. Even though all my vaxx needles were new and sterile, I even rubbed alcohol on the site before my friend administered. I will not be using that brand of vaxx again.


----------

