# Kids not growing UPDATE pg. 4



## dwbonfire (May 22, 2013)

I picked up a doeling and was told he was eating hay and was old enough to be weaned and go. When i went to get her they said she could be bottle fed another two weeks, but she is eating hay. To me, i wish she had been with mom another week until she was eating good. Of course the only thing i have on hand is some colostrum powder from tractor supply. A friend of mine bottle feeds with whole milk, but i only have 2%. should i try to give 2% or the colostrum mix to make sure she has enough in her belly? I worry she will not eat enough hay and get weak.


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## dwbonfire (May 22, 2013)

Any advice or opinions would be helpful, just hate for her to go too long without what she may need. By the time i got her lastnight stores were closed


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## frustratedearthmother (May 22, 2013)

How old is your doeling?


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## dwbonfire (May 22, 2013)

They said they didnt have the exact age but about 6 weeks old maybe a hair younger. This info was given once i got there of course, i had thought she was 8 weeks or so. I saw her nibbling hay this morning again but dont think shes touched the feed. I tried to offer the bottle but she didnt want any part of it.


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## woodsie (May 22, 2013)

I brought home a buckling that was eight weeks but not fully weaned but he was a bottle baby. I gave him bottles for another week because he wasn't drinking water and he was really begging. If you have any cream I was just add a splash to the 2% and give her a bottle if you are really concerned. She likely won't want to take the bottle though, I'm not totally sure how I would get her to take it, you will probably have to force the nipple into her mouth, maybe others have tips. 

I would think she doesn't NEED the milk but the stress of early weaning and not eating enough might wear her down....I'm no expert here but I my buckling did get sick and I think the stress of moving before being fully weaned did not help. 

Good luck! I know how stressed out we can get worrying about these little ones.


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## frustratedearthmother (May 22, 2013)

At six weeks she 'should' be fine.  I had a buck that was orphaned at three weeks and I was never able to get him to take a bottle - even though I tried and tried.   He did nibble feed and hay, but I never thought he was eating enough.   He grew up to be a multiple grand champion, so it didn't hurt him that badly.

I think your little one will be fine, but watch her for signs of cocci because stress can sure set it off.

Good luck!


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## ThreeBoysChicks (May 22, 2013)

If your doeling was raised on mom, you may have a hard time getting her to talk a bottle.  You most likely need to go with her the way she is.  

I follow Roll Farms advice and do not completely wean until 3 months of age.


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## dwbonfire (May 22, 2013)

I much rather she stayed with mom a while longer until she was surely good and strong and eating. 3 months sounds like the perfect age.
What are some signs to look for with cocci just in case she has an issue?


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## ThreeBoysChicks (May 22, 2013)

dwbonfire said:
			
		

> I much rather she stayed with mom a while longer until she was surely good and strong and eating. 3 months sounds like the perfect age.
> What are some signs to look for with cocci just in case she has an issue?


Again, I follow Roll Farms advice and I treat for Cocci every 30 days for the first 6 months of life starting at 1 month of age.  I was using Corid but have switched to DiMethox.


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## frustratedearthmother (May 22, 2013)

Usually you'll see diarrhea, but occasionally cocci can be tricker.  It can cause a general 'unthriftyness' and 'failure to thrive'.  There are lots of good articles on Google.

Almost all goats, but especially kids, will carry some coccidia - it's when it gets out of hand that it becomes a problem.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (May 22, 2013)

I treat proactively, because Cocci can kill them before you see any signs.  Also, even if you don't see visible signs, they can be carrying a heavy load and it can stunt their growth.  I learned the hard way.


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## frustratedearthmother (May 22, 2013)

So true!


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## dwbonfire (May 22, 2013)

I noticed she does have a pastey butt so to be safe i think i will treat her. I have corid oral solution 9.6% but its from last year, is it still good? Can i get the other wormer at tractor supply? I will try to weigh her but she cant be more than 10-15lbs. Im bad at guessing weight. She is a nubian/lamacha mix. Im afraid to overdose.


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## elevan (May 22, 2013)

dwbonfire said:
			
		

> I noticed she does have a pastey butt so to be safe i think i will treat her. I have corid oral solution 9.6% but its from last year, is it still good? Can i get the other wormer at tractor supply? I will try to weigh her but she cant be more than 10-15lbs. Im bad at guessing weight. She is a nubian/lamacha mix. Im afraid to overdose.


CoRid is usually all that you'll find at Tractor Supply.  The other meds are either sourced online or through a vet.

Here's some more info on coccidia and treatments / preventions:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-coccidia-goat


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## mama24 (May 22, 2013)

If you have a doe in milk, it is probably worth a try to hold her to let your new baby nurse at least once a day. That's what I did last year and my doe adopted the twins.


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## dwbonfire (May 22, 2013)

I have a doe that is a month or so from kidding. She has an udder, but im not sure i should let her nurse her?

Thanks u for the link with all the meds. I am going to get her weight in the morning and call my vet to see if that corid i have from last year is any good now. That link said corid is best at preventing rather than treating, should i consider a different wormer all together?

I gave them some fresh grass clippings in with their hay and she was eating well and i watched her drink water. Ive got to get some sweet feed to entice them to eat the feed. Pellets arent interesting them much.


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## OneFineAcre (May 22, 2013)

dwbonfire said:
			
		

> I have a doe that is a month or so from kidding. She has an udder, but im not sure i should let her nurse her?
> 
> Thanks u for the link with all the meds. I am going to get her weight in the morning and call my vet to see if that corid i have from last year is any good now. That link said corid is best at preventing rather than treating, should i consider a different wormer all together?
> 
> I gave them some fresh grass clippings in with their hay and she was eating well and i watched her drink water. Ive got to get some sweet feed to entice them to eat the feed. Pellets arent interesting them much.


No.  Don't let her nurse the doe who has not kidded.

Cocci are not worms and Corid is not a wormer.

You could try a bottle, but not likely to take.  Pry her mouth open and try to get it in for her to suck.  I've had better experience with buckling's taking a bottle later personally, but you could try.

Do you have alfalfa hay?  I've also observed they will eat the leaves off of alfalfa better/earlier than grass hay.  They will nibble at grass hay, but will eat more alfalfa.

Again, that is just my personal observation.


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## mama24 (May 23, 2013)

I saw somewhere that had milk replacer pellets for sale. I think it may have been Hoeggers. I would be worried about stunned growth weaning a baby that young. My twins last year were 7 weeks old and needed the milk. I did wean 7 week old twins this year on purpose, but they were huge. If you think the baby still needs milk, the pellets may be something worth trying.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (May 23, 2013)

My very first goat was weined at 10 weeks.  She was small, so the breeder sent me home with some Milk Replacer and I put that on top of the goat feed for a few more weeks.  She ate the feed and the replacer and she grew like a weed.


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## rinksgi (May 30, 2013)

I pulled the 2 kids off Lilly a couple weeks ago, at age 8 weeks because I am selling the buckling and thought that was too young to be completely off milk. Getting them to take a bottle was challenging, but after a few days, they are taking it like pros. First, I put just an couple of ounces in a bottle and barely snipped a hole in the nipple, so the milk would not flow too quickly and drown them. I held the kid in my lap and with one hand, pried the mouth open and with the other, guided the nipple into the mouth and held it in place. The first few times, I got more milk on me than in the goat, but soon, hunger won over. They are grazing well, but are not interested in feed. I fed milk I got from their mom, so that may have made it easier. When they got the hang of it, I made the hole larger. Good luck with your baby.


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## dwbonfire (Jun 10, 2013)

I was unable to get her to take the bottle but got the dosage for corid and treated for 5 days. She seemed to be getting along fine but took a turn for the worst and i lost her. The man i got her from replaced her with an older buckling. I treated the new buckling and doeling i have with cydectin but now the new buckling has loose stools like the one i lost. I plan to start him on 5 days of corid today once i get the dosage from vet. Is there another parisite that causes loose stools? I would think the cydectin took care of most except cocci. I really do not want to battle parisites back and forth so should i treat the doeling another 5 days while treating him since they are together?


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## Southern by choice (Jun 10, 2013)

I strongly suggest you have a fecal run at this point. That way you can target and treat the actual problem. It will save you money, time and heartache. Shooting in the dark and just giving stuff is never effective, usually does alot of harm.* Cocci are oocysts not worms*. De-wormers do not work on cocci. For worms you need to know the type of worm for the right de-wormer. It isn't "one size fits all" LOL

before taking another animal from the breeder why isn't the breeder doing a fecal on the animal and treating it before he/she gives it to you?

Not being hard here, but breeders of any animal have a responsibility to know what is in their herd.


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## Missy (Jun 10, 2013)

I find that Corid tends to give the goat kids runny stools. I lost a kid earlier in the year from this. You need to have probios on hand to give them. Also the Corid does something to the thiamin. I give Corid and probios together now as well as addition Vitamin B (I find graham crackers do the trick)

This works for me, may not work for everyone.


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## dwbonfire (Jun 13, 2013)

On day 4 of corid and still runny stools. He weighed 30 lbs and the vet said 1.5ml for 5 days. This vet doesnt treat many goats so does anyone want to adjust that dosage and amount of time? I started him on a probiotic today so maybe that will help. He is seeming to eat and get along ok other than runs and looking a little more thin. I am wondering if i am dealing with a case of bacterial scours or something other than a parisite problem, seeing as hes been wormed with cydectin and now with corrid. I may try that spectum scour guard for pigs, was told that works well. I am trying to avoid a vet bill, i have had a bad run of financial troubles and literally cannot afford a fecal test at this time. Please dont bash me for that, i am trying my best. Should i continue cocci treatment longer than the 5 days or treat for bacterial scours now?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 13, 2013)

My two cents....ditch the CoRid and go for DiMethox 40%.


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## dwbonfire (Jun 14, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> My two cents....ditch the CoRid and go for DiMethox 40%.


Can i easily get that at tractor supply or do i need to get it through a vet? Maybe i can order it online? What would dosage and treatment time be for a 30lb kidd? No chance it could just be scours without a parisite problem now?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 14, 2013)

TSC does not have it but other farm stores may (our local one does).  Otherwise, order it from Jeffers.com.  You can get it in liquid form ready for use or can get the powder and mix it to a 40% concentration mix the packet with 1.5 cups of warm water in a clean glass jar with a screw on top---stir until completely dissolved---store in the fridge) .  Order or buy some syringes too that will let you accurately measure the dosage.

If it is coccidia, the 40% should knock it out quickly.  Administer 1.6cc per 5 pounds of your animals weight on day one of the five day treatment.  Then for the next 5 days, administer 1.6cc per 10 pounds.

Double check my math but that would mean on day one, give the 30lb kid 9.6cc
Then for the next four, give half that amount.

IF it is bacterial, you may need a different antibiotic but this is the best bet for coccidia IMHO.


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## dwbonfire (Jun 14, 2013)

Thank you so much for taking the time to figure out the dosage, math is not my strong point! I think i will have to order it since our only local farm store is now closed. The doeling that is in the same pen seems fine and has a fairly clean bottom. Should i treat her too so i can be sure they are clean and i can finally turn them outside with my others?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 14, 2013)

With any other parasite medication, I am always one to preach the importance of testing first before treating.  With coccidia and DiMethox, however, I routinely treat preventatively at 3 weeks old and have not had a problem with coccidiosis since.  I would treat them both.


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## dwbonfire (Jun 14, 2013)

I was hoping my vet carried dimethox, but ill have to order it online. Prob wouldnt get it until monday. The vet says between the cydectin and the 5 days of corid the goat should be clear and the scours may just be from stress from the move. Today is day 8 ive had him. Sigh, i cant wait for this to be gone so they can get out of that stall! I will strip the stall once they are wormed and out of there, is there something i should clean it with so other animals can go in there and not pick up the cocci?
What can i do to stop his scours in the meantime? Stools are still puddles today and i worry hes going to start going downhill since hes had them for a week now. i have electrolites in water and giving him a probiotic once a day. I think i will treat with the spectum scour guard over the weekend while i wait for the dimethox.


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## woodsie (Jun 14, 2013)

dwbonfire said:
			
		

> I was hoping my vet carried dimethox, but ill have to order it online. Prob wouldnt get it until monday. The vet says between the cydectin and the 5 days of corid the goat should be clear and the scours may just be from stress from the move. Today is day 8 ive had him. Sigh, i cant wait for this to be gone so they can get out of that stall! I will strip the stall once they are wormed and out of there, is there something i should clean it with so other animals can go in there and not pick up the cocci?
> What can i do to stop his scours in the meantime? Stools are still puddles today and i worry hes going to start going downhill since hes had them for a week now. i have electrolites in water and giving him a probiotic once a day. I think i will treat with the spectum scour guard over the weekend while i wait for the dimethox.


If you have a health food store open they should carry slippery elm....I have tried this recipe twice with bad cocci diarrhea and it has helped to stop the runs until the meds have time to work. This was pasted from a different thread that I had with my buckling that had diarrhea, but I have used it with good results. 

1 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp clove
2 tsp ginger
2 tsp slippery elm (health food stores or Hoeggers Goat Supply)
1 tsp garlic ( I use liquid)
2 cups of water

Bring to slow simmer on low heat while stirring.
I then place in jar and cover and allow to cool for about 20 minutes.
I have been using it for
the past few years with awesome results.
Give 6-12 cc's orally several times a day.
I have also mixed it with scour halt with very good results

Since I already had some of this mixed up I then added:
cayenne and thyme. I used a teaspoon of each because my babies are in the 50-70 pound range, well, most of them, Figured it wouldn't hurt the little babies.

I used 10cc for a 30 lb kid.

Hope he holds out for you!


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## dwbonfire (Jun 16, 2013)

K one last question, which form of di-methox should i get? I searched on jeffers website and three kinds came up
http://www.jefferspet.com/search.asp?camid=LIV&sc=liv&ss=Dimethox&search-submit=GO
If i get the injectable kind i give it orally?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 16, 2013)

You can either get the 40% injectable (given orally) or the powder and mix it to a 40% concentration (give orally).  The 12.5% liquid is not strong enough.  The directions on the powder are for a 12.5% solution but I mix it to the higher concentration.


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## mariyajohnson01 (Jun 19, 2013)

At six weeks she 'should' be fine.  I had a buck that was orphaned at three weeks and I was never able to get him to take a bottle - even though I tried and tried.   He did nibble feed and hay, but I never thought he was eating enough.   He grew up to be a multiple grand champion, so it didn't hurt him that badly.


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## dwbonfire (Jun 21, 2013)

So i finally got the dimethox! Feel like i been waiting forever! Id like to get them started today but have a few questions first:

They are due for second dose of cydectin, is it safe to give both wormers same day or should i put off second dose and get started on dimethox right away? Or vise versa, cydectin today and start dimethox tomorrow?

I rechecked weights, the billy is now 28lbs so he actually lost 2lb. What would his dose for dimthox be now?

Doelings weight is still 16lb so she hasnt gained or lost anything since i got her. What would her dose be?

Im not being lazy about calculating, im just not confident when its not a rounded number! Would greatly appreciate some help on that.

Poops seem to have firmed up but i want to cover all bases before letting them out of quarentine pen. How can i get them to start gaining and growing to full potential, how much grain should they be getting?

ETA: i found a soft pile of stool with a mucus in it, what could this mean? It is firmer than last week but that white mucus is new.


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## dwbonfire (Jul 8, 2013)

UPDATE:
I have finished the dimethox treatment about 3 weeks ago and the kids are out on grass and hay an getting grain in the evening. Thier behinds are clean so i suspect normal stools. My only concern is they dont look like they have grown or gained a bit! Why could that be? What can i do to jump start them to grow and thrive? They are nubian/lamancha mix. Also should i do another preventative round of dimethox, same doses and treatment time?
I also have a 2 week old kid on the property and wondering if i should be proactive to worming her to be safe. Shes very healthy and active. They are penned seperate but run together during the day.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jul 8, 2013)

A really bad bout of parasitism can damage the intestines, sometime causing them to actually shed the lining which then takes time to regrow.  It is possible that permanent damage can occur too.  Give them some time to continue to recover, maybe offer them some probiotics a few times a week to aid in digestion, and weigh them again in a month.  

Never worm proactively.


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## dwbonfire (Jul 8, 2013)

Ok i will do the probiotics. Also i have nutri drench, would that help? How much and how often?


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