# Nigerian dwarf doe accidentally bred by Nubian buck.



## chickchick

Hey all! I have a Nigerian dwarf doe that I got from my neighbor right before we moved away. They purchased a variety of goats from the auction all at once, including 2 full size bucks, all were pastured together. Momma had a little doe nursing, and I watched daily as a determined buck chased her nearly all day. I felt so bad for the little girls. They figured out how to sneak through the fence to my yard and that's when we fell in love with them. Thankfully around 10-15-16 they sold the girls to me. 

Sometime around there the breeding must have took. I was worried about the larger breed of buck so I took her to the vet 10-25-16 to get pregnancy test (blood). It was negative. I was glad because I didn't want to have her abort. 
Around 1-30-17 we noticed her belly was bigger, she weened her daughter too. I felt kicking also. Each day she grows and kicking continues, her backside is turning pinker and puffier. Her utter is also coming back. She is most definitely prego and it's too late to abort right? She's 45 lbs and the buck was 65 ish lbs (guessing).
Any chance she will be able to do this birth? I wish I knew her exact breeding, so I could be ready but I don't it's Sometime in October. I called The vet and he said if the blood test was done before 30 days of gestation it can be a false negative. This picture is from a week ago. Thank you for advice.


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## Southern by choice

I would verify and do another pregnancy test possibly an ultrasound. It would be better to know if she really is pregnant and with how many.
Although the buck may have only been 65 lbs if he is a full size Nubian he will still produce as such. A young buck still carries the genes regardless of weight and age at breeding.
It would be better if she was bred for trips or twins as they will be smaller. A single will be very large. Regardless you will want to read up on signs (if confirmed pregnant) on impending labor, such as ligaments, udder development etc. You will also want a vet on call. IOW notify your vet you have a high risk doe. If you run into problems your vet can be on standby.

You will also want to prepare a kidding kit. 

Make sure her feed is adequate for lactation.

Welcome to BYH!


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## Latestarter

Looking at that picture she sure looks to be carrying! Sorry that she got bred by a standard sized goat. At least she's not a first freshener (FF), so she's kidded before. Hoping for the best for her, you and the potential kids.


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## samssimonsays

Hoping for the best for you both. Most would have done a lute early on to abort a pregnancy as such. Since you did not own her at the time you did not have this option and she was put in a high risk pregnancy. I second the vet idea. We had a similar issue with our dog and the vets were able to x-ray her and tell us about how many pups were in there to know if we were in a high risk or just risky pregnancy. This could also helped to ensure the babies were all out vs thinking she's done when In reality she's just tired out and there's still some in there. Good luck and I really hope all goes well! As was said before, she's not a first time mom this go round so that is in her favor.


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## luvmypets

I agree with getting an ultrasound, always good to know how many there are. Two years ago I had a 7 month old ewe lamb get bred by a 200lb ram. I was beyond terrified for her to have her baby. But she was a champ and I walked in to a healthy baby boy.


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## norseofcourse

As others have said, it's helpful that she's not a first-time mom.

If goats are the same as sheep, you want to make sure you don't overfeed her, especially in the last month or two of pregnancy.  Overfeeding can cause lambs to be too large, so it might be the same for kids?  And an overweight pregnant mom isn't good, either.

@Southern by choice @OneFineAcre @babsbag @Goat Whisperer and other goat folks help - are goats similar to sheep in this regard?  How should she body condition score her goat?


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## Goat Whisperer

This was my post earlier, for some reason it didn't post. @norseofcourse you are absolutely correct, you don't want to over feed this doe! 

I agree with what the others have said.
Ultrasound would be a good idea.

If it looks like a single, chances of her needing a C section is pretty good, but you don't really know. Don't heavy grain the doe, you don't need her pouring it all into the kid/s.

With the lute, at this time it's already too late, but when you know when the appropriate time to give it, it doesn't cause the doe to "abort". When given at the right time, it keeps the doe from conceiving- so there is never a "death" of a kid. I've talked to my vet about this very in depth, very interesting actually.


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## chickchick

Very helpful info, thank you all! my old neighbor was kind enough to send me pics of his bucks, maybe we can figure out the breed by the pics, anyone recognize these? Feeding orchard grass hay and ration of a non grain pellet recommended by my farm store, it's alfalfa. Today a farmer did an ultrasound for me, saw 1 heartbeat, and some bones. It looks like a couple more weeks to go. I'll get prepared. If she starts labor, will I know when we are having trouble by her behavior? Pushing with no results seems obvious, anything else? 
Calling around to get c section info on Monday, hope for the best and prepare for the worst.


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## babsbag

I think that the white one at least is part Boer and the other one may be as well. It looks like they are both standard sized goats. 

Based on the dates you posted I would say that she was bred between 10/3 and 10/14 which would make her 150 days on March 2 at the earliest. I sure hope that she has more than one hiding in there. She has a pretty wide load. 

As far as troubles, it would be pushing with no baby showing. Have you gone through this before?


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## chickchick

Boer, ug. All of my reading up, I hear this is bad for a 45lb momma. She and her baby are my first goats. I've been around other births but not large daddy small momma situations. It's a shame this happened. The ultra sound showed at least one, but couldn't tell if there was two, it was done by a friend of a friend who had an old machine.


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## babsbag

They aren't purebred Boer due to the color but they could be Nubian as well, or a mix. Hard to tell without seeing the body structure and the ears and head are very similar between the two breeds. The white one really looks "boerish" to me. Nubians arefiner boned and usually longer legged than a Boer. 

A 45 lb doe is really small and yes, I would be a little worried. The more kids she has the better. It is a shame that there were left together. But somewhere I read that other day about a Nigi bred to a standard and it did fine. Hopefully they will get the mom's small gene. You have probably at least another 3 weeks; the waiting may kill you.


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## Alibo

Any updates?


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## chickchick

I have been watching my momma goat closely and checking ligaments daily. The ligaments are slowly softening and changing but I can still find them. I can feel major movement, it's really exciting. I think she's getting close maybe a week away. I put a video baby monitor in her nighttime stall and have a plan to take her to the local university vet if she has trouble. Here is a picture of Ma looking pretty.


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## Alibo

She is beautiful, thanks for the update. Waiting excitedly with you!


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## purplequeenvt

Don't know if goats are way different than sheep, but in the sheep world, most times a small breed ewe bred to a large breed ram lambs out just fine. Unless you are way over feeding, the lamb(s) won't grow too large. 

I had an 80lb ewe get bred to a 200lb ram accidentally (ram jumped several fences) and she lambed just fine. 

Most times, those "bigger" genetics don't kick in until after birth.


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## chickchick

Thank you purplequeen, that's the kind of encouragement I'm looking for! Praying for the best and prepping for anything that can happen. Still no signs of labor as of Sunday morning.  Guessing at due dates is all consuming!


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## chickchick

This evening I was brushing the girls in the barn, they sure are losing their fluff! I saw a few things I haven't seen before.

1. Ma was being impatient and rude to her little daughter; they share a stall at night, well they share everything. Ma was trying to hump her and head butting her (daughter's heat was the 18th, so it must be over by now). I tried brushing them with both hands at the same time but I'm super uncoordinated. Anyway, if I didn't get both of them, Cinnamon the princess baby gets right up in my face, and Ma just waits and makes a few noises. Maybe she had enough waiting. She had a feisty look in her eyes, do goats get jealous? Or is she wanting her space to have her new kids? The girls have never been apart, should I have separated them? Now if I do separate it could stress them...
2. Ma was stretching and hunching her back and her vaginal area was contracting. After a minute she walks away and starts eating. But I think this might be a little sign she is moving things along.

The last day she was with a buck was October 18th, but she lived in the pen with them starting in August. If she was bred the last day at buck-fest farm, her latest due date would be March 12th. Either way, I'll be watching my little monitor more signs.


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## Devonviolet

This is exciting and scary, at the same time!  I'm praying that purplequeen is right and size genetics kicks in after birth!

I am new to raising goats, and have 2 does due to kid between now and April 11th. Since we aren't planning to breed, I'm planning to wether any bucklings we get. After this experience, you may be planning to do the same thing.

My first is due around March 23rd. So, I will be watching this with interest.


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## chickchick

I agree, we are excited! We really do need a playful friend for the young goat, she's much more spunky than Ma and tends to pester her. Scary that we could lose Ma if things go wrong. We definitely will wether if we get a buckling. 

Last night I checked ligaments, what I noticed is that they are sinking down. At first when I heard of this method for predicting birth, I envisioned the ligaments turning to mush, but I feel like they are relaxing and moving aside and downward instead. Such an interesting process to be a part of. Her belly movement is less, but I can feel knobby knees or something which move a little then I touch her. 12 days or less to go!!!


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## Queen Mum

My 200 lb buck bred my 50 lb doe and she kidded just fine.  Of course, she had twins and had kidded before but really had no trouble.


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## chickchick

Love to hear this, it gives me a bit more hope that things will be ok. Thank you!


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## chickchick

Thanks to all the insightful things I've read on Backyardherds, the goats are in much better hands than they were before I found y'all, thank you! For example:
Ma has been going for walks often, to keep her in shape, Cinnamon runs circles around her, she needed some space too. I don't have fencing on our perimeter, so Ma is on a leash when we go. Learned the hard way, a neighbor across the street said hi, and Cinnamon booked across the road to greet her, I tried to catch her and it was impossible, then Ma ran after her. Dangerous I tell ya!
Also being very diligent in keeping chicken feed away, providing loose minerals, not over feeding before birth, but free access to nice orchard grass hay. Learned all this from you guys, simple things that are important! Still watching and waiting for birth of mixed breed kids, her last day with the bucks was October 18th, she lived with them 3 months prior. Here are pics from today, any predictions?


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## chickchick

Here is a cute pic, since I violate this poor goat daily, with feeling ligs and taking photos of her hooha. If it wasn't for treats she would never like me.


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## babsbag

150 days is March 17 so it can't be much longer. Is that discharge coming from her vulva or did you just catch her after she urinated? Didn't you say you had a pregnancy test done right after you got her and it was negative?  She must have waited until the last possible day.


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## chickchick

That discharge was from her vulva, its the first time she has had that since I got her. When I first got her she had some discharge, so I took her to the vet for the pregnancy test on the 25th of October. Maybe it was her heat, I'm thinking you are correct, breeding was the last possible day or close to it.


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## babsbag

She was negative on 10/25 so less than 30 days so that means that she was bred between 9/25 and 10/18 but we can pretty much figure that she was bred after 10/1 or she would have had those kids by now. At this point I am going to be very safe in saying "before March 20th" How's that for hedging my bets? If the discharge turns amber in color it is time.


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## Latestarter

Sure hope that's twins, because if not, that's looking like it's gonna be one very large kid! Waiting along with you, but probably (assuredly) a lot less stressful for me.  Best wishes!


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## chickchick

Hoping and praying for twins or more! I thought there were no ligaments today, her tail area is smooshy, but the ligaments became noticeable again a few hours later. I'll keep you posted. Thanks everyone for your concern and support. Almost there!


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## Queen Mum

She is quite lovely. And she has a nice little udder.  She doesn't look enormous.  Pretty normal actually.  Her hips look OK to deliver a fair sized kid.  Good luck.


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## BaileBeatha

Keeping my fingers crossed and a close eye on this thread. It sounds like you have everything under control though, and you are being very vigilant. You and mama will be fine! Deep breaths!


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## Jenn27

Good luck!! Glad you have a back-up plan for the birth, but praying you won't need it!


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## chickchick

False labor today, I was sure we would have kids today, but just pre labor I suppose. Tomorrow is exactly 145 days from when I took her from the bucks. Here is a pic of an absolutely relaxed Ma that I took tonight when I said "


 goodnight, I love you goats", lol, my ❤️.


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## Southern by choice




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## chickchick

I'm in the barnyard, with the goats after a grazing walk. Ma is panting and stretching. Her vulva sinks in and she grinds her teeth. Belly is low and tail area sunk, its very noticeable. Udder grew over night too. I'm on the slowest moving crazy train!


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## Southern by choice

chickchick said:


> I'm on the slowest moving crazy train!




Yep- kidding time does that to you!


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## Bunnylady




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## chickchick

She had twin doelings! Feeling blessed right now.


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## chickchick

Placenta is passing so this means she's done right? One doe has weak hocks they seem double jointed. Kinda bend the wrong way and lock and hard to walk but she's trying. Both nursed a bit.


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## chickchick

Here is a pic of her legs


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## chickchick

Other doeling is same as her dad


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## luvmypets

Woooh!


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## Goat Whisperer

Congrats! So glad for the happy ending! 

The leg issues can be normal. Give her a few days and it will firm up. Usually when we have large litters one or 2 will have it. If she is having a hard time getting around you might need to splint it.


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## Alibo

Congrats! So happy it worked out well, just beautiful babies!


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats!  Very cute kids


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## Bunnylady

Those are some seriously cute baby girls. Congrats, all ways 'round!


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## BaileBeatha

Thank goodness! I was so excited to read this post this morning! I squealed a little bit here at work!  I am so glad for twins and so relieved for mama (and you). I'm sure you both will sleep sooo much better now. Both doelings look healthy - if not just a little irritated to be out in the cold now - haha. Very happy for you!


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## Jenn27

Yay!!!!  Congrats on the twins!!  We are still waiting over here....


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## Latestarter

YAY!!! Congrats on successful kidding of twins and both doelings to boot! Can't do much better than that


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## BlessedWithGoats

Congrats!! Cuteness!!


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## babsbag

Totally cute and so happy that it worked out ok. I love those ears.


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## dejavoodoo114

Congrats! Beautiful girls!
I wouldn't worry about the legs/joints. They are generally quite loose when first born. Just enjoy the awkwardness until their muscles get stronger! lol


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## Queen Mum

I would give both babies a shot of BoSe and a shot of VitB.


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## Queen Mum

They are lovely babies!


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