# Emergency, for new member, need baby goat help



## RileyandStormysmom (Jan 9, 2011)

Hi, I am going crazy with my goats with worry. I am new to goats. I bought my first one in June of last year. My first birth was three days ago to a goat with the longest pregnancy in goat history1 lol. we bought her thinking she was going to kid in September and she gave birth to a boer mix three days ago . I don't own a buck so the other owners must have had a sneak in their midst.

Now I bought a goat in November and the owners were sure that she would not kid until Feb.2-March 2. Well I came out to give the boer buckling a bottle (mom won't nurse him) and she just gave birth to a kid. It is so small. Could it be a premie? They are Nubians. Are Nubian babies smaller then other a mix with boer kid would be? Well I went in and dried him off (yep another boy) and he seems so small. She looked like she was going to have another one but seemed so nervous with us there that I didn't want to stress her out. 

I am going to go check on  her but how long should I wait if she has a second one . I thought I had more time. I am so freaking out that something is going to go wrong. I don't know what to do.

My other problem is should I take out the other goats now? Will that stress her out more. I took out Cookie and Cream after the birth and let the baby have alone time with mom for three days. I just introduced the herd again tonight.

Can you tell that I am in a panic over this! I feel like the maid in "Gone With the Wind".  Oh she was eating like a cow at three p.m. when I put her up. No mucus, no tail ligaments and then bam baby.

OH she had a big red ball hanging out of her rear end is that cause of concern or normal?

thanks,


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## RileyandStormysmom (Jan 10, 2011)

Okay-Cookie update.

She del. twin Nubian bucks. They are both beautiful but I believe they are premature. :-( This is only my second birth). I am grief stricken. The babies are inside next to a heater in a basket with blankets. They are warm. They can't stand and are floppy. We got the second one right after birth and brought him in.

ON a good note the mother is doing fine. 

The babies can't even lift their heads. I am going to get the colstrum out of the mother and it looks like we will have to tube feed. I don't have any idea how to do that. 

We are going to the vet first thing in the morning if they live that long . 

Thanks,

Shelly


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## Our7Wonders (Jan 10, 2011)

> Okay-Cookie update.
> 
> She del. twin Nubian bucks. They are both beautiful but I believe they are premature. :-( This is only my second birth). I am grief stricken. The babies are inside next to a heater in a basket with blankets. They are warm. They can't stand and are floppy. We got the second one right after birth and brought him in.
> 
> ...


I hope this was ok to do, I was worried the post may not be seen where it was originally posted.


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## Our7Wonders (Jan 10, 2011)

Shelly, I don't have advice because I know nothing of kidding, new to goats and mine are still PG - but I've reposted your questions in it's own thread hoping that you might get a quicker answer.  I'ts labled "Emergency, for new member, help for baby" (or something really similar, can't remember now).

I hope that was ok to do, I was concerned your post wouldn't get the immediate help it needed where it was posted.  I wish I had advice to give.  I'd search through some the birthing posts and see if you can find any help, perhaps www.fiascofarm.com  might have some helpful info.  I'd google "birthing, weak kid" and see if you can get some advice.

It's late here and we're on Pacific time so you might not see any answers until the early morning hours but several of our memebers on the other side of the states and will likely post very early tomorrow - check back in the early a.m., perhaps you can get some help before your vet opens.  I will be watching the thread and I hope your little guys are able to pull through.


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## adoptedbyachicken (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for making a new thread O7W.  You can also hit the report button when a new member needs help and we can make a split.  Moved all the posts here.

Hope all will be well with the kids RileyandStormysmom.


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## Roll farms (Jan 10, 2011)

Nubian kids (most dairy kids, actually) aren't the hardy little buggers that meat cross kids are.

They are quite likely fine and will be acting / feeling better this morning.
It just takes them a while to get their legs under them.

I generally hold them in my lap and put the nipple in their mouths, and they will take off sucking on their own.  You usually have to hold their chins in your hand or their head flops over / nipple pops out.  I do that for a few days.  Make sure the colostrum / milk is warm or they won't drink.  There's a bit of a technique to feeding newborns and some will scream and act silly until they 'get it' that you're trying to feed, not murder them.

I had a premie born Monday, that was due Friday.  She had a slower start than a full term kid but is fine now.  

Twin nubs born here average 6-7 # ea. in weight.  Singles average 8#
Our premie weighed 5.9#.  Maybe weighing them will help you get a better idea if they were really premature or just acting like typical floppy Nubian kids.

Sometimes premies won't have a sucking reflex, and babies who are really cold won't.  Then you need to warm them up and tube them.  
I've been raising goats for a long time and I've only tubed maybe 3.  It's not really common to have to, from my experience.  I don't like to risk the chance of pneumonia if the colostrum / milk gets in their lungs.

Honestly, thinking about it now, if my first baby goat hadn't been a 2 day old Nubian (so that I was used to how they acted) I would probably be freaking out too, thinking something was wrong, compared to a meat kid.  I had boer twins born today who were sucking on my ear 2 minutes after birth, and able to stand when I got them to the house...w/in 5 mins of birth.

I have noticed that dairy kids tend to be a bit more prone to selenium deficiency (weak legs / turned under feet) than our meat kids.  I give pre-kidding selenium shots to the does and probably 80% of our kids legs are fine when born...but if one is going to need a shot, it's usually a Nub who does.  I am assuming that the dams didn't get selenium, pre-kidding?  If their legs still seem weak to you today, you can ask the vet to give you 1/2 cc of selenium /  (BoSe) to inject in ea. kid.  I usually put it in the butt cheek.

The big red ball hanging out her twee is what my hubby has dubbed, "The Done Bags."  As in, she's finished, she's got the "done" bags hanging out.  I nearly died laughing.  *usually* when they're finished there will be multiple water / blood tinged bags hanging out until they deliver the placenta, usually w/in a couple of hours.

Good luck!  Please keep us posted.


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## 4hmama (Jan 10, 2011)

First - keep the babies warm.  If possibleand they are still with mama,  - put a heat lamp in the stall so they have more warmth.  Take their temps.  They should be around 101-102.  If less than that - get them warmed up...soon!  We had a baby with a temp of 94...and pulled her through.  Use heating pads or if the temp is REALLY low - put them in a hot water bath (we used about 104 degree water) and just hold them in the water until their temp comes up.  Lethargy can be temp related.

Second - see if you can find Nutridrench.  It is a 'pick me up' for goats.  If not - try some warm molassass water or add molassass to the milk you are using.  The Nutridrench or molassass has sugar in it for energy...which might be enough to perk them up to get them to take some warm colostrum/milk.

Third - look at fiasco farm site...they are VERY helpful.  Google 'weak goat babies', 'premie goat babies', 'new kids not thriving'...those sort of things...they are helpful.

We have nigerians which are a dairy goat.  I would assume that the nubian babies would be a little more delicate stature than a boar baby...but I don't know.


GOOD LUCK!!!


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## ChksontheRun (Jan 10, 2011)

I don't have any advice to give but will be thinking about you today.  I have 3 mini nubians due sometime between now and February, (first time goat mom too)and will be very interested in responses as it will help me prepare.

Best wishes for your babies!!!!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 10, 2011)

Update as soon as you can!  I agree with Roll..she is right abour dairy kids!  I would be careful about drenching and tubing newborns..unless absolutley necessary..the risk of pneumonia is high!  But shes absolutley correct..get them on your lap...warm them and assist them with the nipple.  Make sure they are stretching for the nipple like they should be..that will help keep any fluid out of the lungs.  

And get the vet asap if you are unsure for certain!   Good luck...I hope it goes well for you..and them!!!  

Keep us posted!!!


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 10, 2011)

Hello:

Sorry to hear about your first time frustrations, welcome to goats.
If I have a kid born like that, We set up a heat lamp(secured with double chains and latches and a safety frame over the bulb. 

Then I put a tablespoon or two of corn syrup in a cup, and add a couple tablespoon of hot coffee, I use a 3cc syringe with out a needle and put it all the way back to the side of the babies mouth and tyip his head holding under his neck and chin and try to get him to drink some around 15 to 20 cc's of the warm mixture. 

I then administer  1/2cc Bo-Se in the back leg. I beleive you can only get B0-Se from a Vet so this needs to be planned ahead.

Then we lay him under the heat lamp so you can feel the warmth on the  back of your hand. I like keeping them out there with mom to encourage bonding and hopefully soon nursing. (Unless you were planning on bottle feeding anyway.) 

then in 15 minutes, I attempt to get the baby up assisting in standing, If he has any stength at all and acts interested in sucking I work him over to mom and help him get near the nipple. An interested baby may not beable to stand, but will butt with their head and start sucking when they have mommies tummy above them. (make sure you have checked the nipple to get the hard plug out so the baby doesn't have to work at that. some moms will have very very thick milk at first, so thick it looks like a sticky bulb of candy on the end of the mom's nipple instead of comning out like milk. If this is the case I squeez some out so it is hanging on the end of the nipple and then try to get all of that in babies mouth.

If baby is making no attempt to suck or baby is just too weak to latch on to mom.  get around  30 cc of the coffee/corn syrup mixture(This would be one ounce)  Add a quarter teaspoon baking soda and then milk some of mom's milk into this. Maybe another 15 or 30cc of mom's milk. Less if it is really reallly thick.
Draw this mixture up into a 3cc syringe and feed baby as much as you can and he will tolerate. Hopefully you can get atleast one once in him. 

WAit around 20 minutes to 30 minutes and try baby on mom again. At some point if baby just isn't warming up enough you will have to bring him in the house. Most the time they will get going and recover enough for you to beable to hold them up to mom every couple hours to nurse for a minute or so.  

Some of this process is hard to explain. I know you don't want to feed a baby too much milk, if they aren't able to stand at all. You should be able to atleast assist them in standing for a few minutes after feeding. The milk is not able to go to the correct stomach, while laying down, and this will give them a very upset stomach and they will stop trying to suck at all. If this happens give them some more baking soda 1/2 teapoon in just a llittle bit of milk or corn syrup and warm water. 

If you have other does still due to kid, this would be a good time to give them all another round of Bo-Se (2cc per doe).  Including the mom that just kidded. 

Good luck, during kidding season everyone.

OUr first ones are due Feb. 3, this year. Well not our first ones, our first ones this kidding season. And all though I feel like I know a quite a bit about goats, I have been reading some of the threads and feel like I have learned some valuable information.

Take care

t


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## julieq (Jan 10, 2011)

Nothing to add to the excellent advice you've already been given except to agree about Nubian kids being sort of slow starters as compared to our Nigerian Dwarf kids (which are much quicker getting their little legs under them).  Please keep us updated and best of luck!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 10, 2011)

I hope everything turns out ok for you!


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## RileyandStormysmom (Jan 10, 2011)

Update: The twins are still alive!! Yeah! We are just taking it one day at a time and enjoying them while we have them. They are probably two weeks pre mature.


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## ksalvagno (Jan 10, 2011)

Riley - you will have to start your own thread and post some pics. Did you take them to the vet? I hope they thrive for you.


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## scrambledmess (Jan 10, 2011)

Hoping for an update?


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## Roll farms (Jan 10, 2011)

She posted an update in another thread started by GFF

"Update: The twins are still alive!! Yeah! We are just taking it one day at a time and enjoying them while we have them. They are probably two weeks pre mature."


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## adoptedbyachicken (Jan 11, 2011)

I have moved all her posts to this thread now and sent a PM, hopefully the goats do well and she finds her way here.

April


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 11, 2011)

RileyandStormysmom said:
			
		

> Update: The twins are still alive!! Yeah! We are just taking it one day at a time and enjoying them while we have them. They are probably two weeks pre mature.


Im glad they are hanging in there!! Thats awesome news!!!  Keep us updated please!!!  Hope they thrive for you!


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## scrambledmess (Jan 11, 2011)

Great news!  I can't wait for pictures.  

Thanks for consolidating the threads!


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## RileyandStormysmom (Jan 11, 2011)

I have pictures but I don't know how to put them on.  I didn't know about the selnium shots. Nope they were not. I had bought them pre-bred and she had given them their CDT and de-wormed them. I made sure they had sweet feed and were de-wormed the months I have had them here.

We have them both in the house in the bathroom in a basket. They still don't have their legs. I am going to call the vet again today. Yesterday he had surgery all day and never got back to us. Bio-sol? I will ask the vet about it Our feed store doesn't have it.

I called the breeder (she is a very nice lady) and she guessed they were due January 26th-Feb. 2nd. That was about 150 days from when she was with the buck. They due not have any teeth or teeth buds on their lower jaws.

I had given them coffee with molasses and that jump started them . I am feeding them with a syringe. oral one. I put my pinkie in their mouth and then feed them . It works better for them then a bottle. 

I don't have many helpful people where I live. My neighbor would have let them die. I am trying.

Yes my Boer mix is a hungry little pig. I have my kids out babysitting him so he won't get into trouble. These goats look so delicate and small compared to him. 

They couldn't drink off their mom . 

Thank you for all the advice.


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## adoptedbyachicken (Jan 11, 2011)

How to upload pictures to a post 

Everything you need is there.  Great to hear your trying to help these kids!  Good luck!


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## ksalvagno (Jan 11, 2011)

If you could get BoSe from the vet, that would really help your kids. That is a selenium injection. That is great that you are able to work with them and they are doing ok.


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## RileyandStormysmom (Jan 11, 2011)

Update: We lost Jack Black. He was doing so well then just crashed. We held him and were with him when he passed away. We buried him in the back yard.

ON a positive note Daniel is doing well. He went to the vet today along with my pyr. My pry has an ulcer on her eye either from a cat or a thorn bush.

The vet told me he believes they are only 1.5 to two weeks early. He gave him two shots. We are watching his temp and making sure he is hydrated. The vet said he won't be able to stand for another two to three days. We are doing the best we can and hoping and praying.

To be honest I am not sure I am up to having goats . I love them so much and this has been so heartbreaking to me. My neighbors here are not very helpful. I hear comments all the time about it. Why am i taking him to the vet? Why am I getting up and feeding him every two hours and bottle feeding the other one. Well because I love them. I worry about them. 

I am totally worried about my other pregnant doe now and the mother's that gave birth. I watch them all the time to make sure they are healing properly . I am crazy with worry about mastitis and my other goats getting sick or ill. 

Well I will keep you updated.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 11, 2011)

I am sooo sorry for your loss!!!!!    Thats terrible news!! But happy to hear Daniel is doing better!! It is part of owning goats!  I am sorry!!!   


As for you neighbors...ignore them..and love and care for what ever you'd like!! Nosy neighbors!!!  

Im sorry!!


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## julieq (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm so sorry that you lost one.  But please don't give up due to this one experience, although I know it's rough going through.   We've all been through the heartbreak of losing kids, believe me.  

And although you may not have the support you need there locally, you've got a wonderful support network on this forum and we'll be here for you!  Consider yourself hugged!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm very sorry to hear about Jack Black.  I completely understand your impulse to call it quits.  We lost our first kids on New Year's morning and it's absolutely heartbreaking.  Forget about your neighbors though- people either get it or they don't.  There's nothing wrong with doing what's right for your animals.  Next time when everything goes Ok it'll make it totally worth it.  I'll have my fingers crossed for Daniel's recovery!


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## ksalvagno (Jan 11, 2011)

I sure hope Daniel does ok for you. I'm sorry about Jack Black. Having livestock is not always easy.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm so sorry. I felt the same way when I lost my bucks, but I'm learning that their dying doesn't ness mean I'm a bad goat lady...


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## Roll farms (Jan 11, 2011)

Sorry for your loss.


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## mossyStone (Jan 11, 2011)

I am so sorry for you loss... It hurts something awful when we loose these guys, be it goats or other fur friends..... Dont give up........  as for you neighbors pooy on them... 

There lots of good folks here that can help with advice and support.....


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## Ariel301 (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Losing the babies is especially hard. 

Don't let it scare you away from goats though. Sometimes these things happen, and since the goats were new to you, it could have been from all sorts of things that were out of your control. I was lucky to have my first kidding experience be a "perfect" one, but I have certainly had a lot of bad kiddings since. Once that little one is up and running around, you'll be addicted to baby goats and want more.  I had two premie kids last year, we rescued a LaMancha/Alpine mix doe that should have been 120+ pounds regularly, but she was 80 pounds and four months pregnant, the owner didn't even know she was bred...she ended up getting very sick from malnutrition and delivered two boys 2-3 weeks early, they were 2 and 2.5 pounds--I had to weigh them on a postage scale because the bathroom scale wouldn't even register something so tiny. The smaller one never was able to nurse or stand up, he died in my arms in bed with me in the middle of the night, we had him on oxygen and an IV trying to keep him alive, but he just wasn't strong enough. His brother took 2 days to really be able to walk and nurse correctly, but once he got going he started growing fast and eating like a pig. Give little Daniel lots of love and attention, it seems to really keep their will to live strong if they know they are loved. 

Dairy babies do tend to be smaller and weaker than crossbred or meat type kids, and more susceptible to any problems, unfortunately. There certainly is something to be said for mutt goats when it comes to health.


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## RileyandStormysmom (Jan 12, 2011)

I will upload pictures. I took Daniel to the vet and he got to injections. The vet said he should be able to walk in two to three days.

Everyone here has been wonderful. Another question. Cookie's (their mother)milk has come in. I am having a difficult time getting milk out of her. My other goat who only feeds her kid on the milking stand is easy. Cookie gets on the milking stand okay and I try to milk her but nothing comes out. I am afraid she is going to get mastitis or something horrible. She is eating, drinking and behaving normally. She still has bloody mucus . I have also added molasses to her water.

My question is how do I dry her up? I don't want her to be in pain and I am having a horrible time of it. I don't think it would be wise to have my other goat kid eat off her her. Although he could be cause he eats like a pig. Daniel can't even stand and I am afraid to take him out in this weather. Her udder is very hard . She isn't complaining infact we are closer then ever.

Thank you so much for all the helpful advice.


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## RileyandStormysmom (Jan 12, 2011)

Okay. I did it! I successfully milked my first goat! Cookie (the mother of the twins) was wonderful. So different then my other goat Stormy. I was so worried about her getting mastitis or something else. I put her on the stand and did it. Milk came out!! Very strong stream too. 

Now some more questions: One is one nipple produced a lot more milk then the other. the other nipple just drops. Is that normal. Now she had two normal nipples before she gave birth now one is smaller then the other before milking. The other thing is after she got off the stand she drank a lot of water, ate a little bit then hunched over licking her nipples. Should I be concerned? Do you think she is sore. I was really gentle.

Everyone here has been great.


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## Roll farms (Jan 12, 2011)

Are you using udder balm?  I know my girls appreciate it...a lot.
Also dip the teat in something (I use gentle iodine, but they make a lot of different teat dips) to help seal it off after you've milked and stripped the teat.

Also, before and after I milk new mothers, I really massage the udder, top to bottom...not just the teats, but the entire udder.  It really seems to make them feel better and let the milk down easy.  Not roughly, but be firm enough that you're digging in a little.

It could be the other kid is nursing her, but some does do have one bigger / more productive than the other.


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## RileyandStormysmom (Jan 12, 2011)

I wash the udder with dawn liquid soap and warm water. Then I pat it dry . Then I make my hand into a fist and massage the udder. I mimic what I have seen my boer nubian mix do to his mom when he wants her to let her milk down. Then I milked her. Then I placed bag balm on her teats.

I am really new to this. I have so many questions and it seems the last couple of days have been so full of heartache and life (little William Bootstrap Turner).

I find myself being paranoid though of losing William too. He is growing so fast. He has already outgrown his sweater! Yes I put him in a sweater when he is in the field with his mommy goat


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## FarmerDenise (Jan 12, 2011)

I am still paranoid about my two. We got them as 5 day old bottle babies. There was some trouble with them, because they were small and had some issues adjusting to cow's milk. Then just as I was weaning them they each got very sick. I was up with them all night, took them to the vet, shelled over $500 I didn't really have to spare and spent weeks getting my babies back to good health. Now everytime they look at me cross eyed, SOand I think: what's wrong 
But we love them dearly and they are very attached to us. Worth every penny we spent on them. 

Hoping your little guy grows to be big and strong and healthy.


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## freemotion (Jan 12, 2011)

Could Cookie be self-sucking on that one teat?  Especially since you saw her turn into a yoga pretzel to lick it?


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## RileyandStormysmom (Jan 12, 2011)

Farmer Denise, I am like you. I spent the money but I want to make sure they are healthy. We lost Jack Black. Also Daniel passed away also. He was doing great. Temp was good, hydration was good. He was just at the vet. I fed him at 1:00 . Great! Fed him at 3:00 still doing wonderful. These are all a.m. times. Then I check on him and his heartbeat was really faint. He closed his eyes and didn't wake up. I am truly heartbroken .

I still have my mix left and he is a pig. He ate from the twins mom and from his mom today. He also took a bottle. I worry about him all the time.

Cookie could be doing that. The tit didn't feel hard or anything. the one did but not the other one and she didn't like me touching it. Her temp is good, she is eating, drinking . I don't see any change. 

Thanks everyone for the kind words and encouragment.


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## savingdogs (Jan 12, 2011)

So sorry for your loss. That is just how it goes sometimes, but that doesn't make it any better.


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