# Lay it on me!



## IamRainey (Jan 23, 2018)

I am 70yo.  I live in the Los Angeles burbs on a 1/2 acre lot.  I presently have a chicken coop and now I think I want a pair of female Nigerian Dwarf goats.  ...only I've never actually taken care of a goat or spent more time with one than taking my grandson to the petting zoo. 

So....  I really need to know the hard truths. 
    •  What's good about having goats? 
    •  What's the downside? 
    •  What do they need to be provided with? 
    •  What will it cost?
    •  How long will they live?
    •  Can goats and a garden co-exist?
    •  Where would I acquire them?

PS  My measly 1/2 acre really amounts to a much smaller area since half of it is front yard and possibly half of the backyard is occupied by the pool, patio and a small guest house (think something like a 3 car garage).

OK!  Hit me with it!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 23, 2018)

The Nigerian Dwarf would be perfect for that environment!
Nigies are great at feed conversion so if you decide to breed them and milk them they will utilize their feed very well.
They are not costly. It has been so long since I had 2 goats I really can't give you numbers but figure a 50 lb bag of dairy goat feed, feeding 1-2 cups per day.... that will last a long time. A good dairy goat feed will range $12-$17 per bag.
A square bale of hay- hmm that price really varies by region and type of hay.  You can pull a flake off and just add when that flake is gone.... 1 bale will last a good bit for 2 goats.

The Dwarf is one of the easiest keepers! 
Since there isn't much land... no worries, you just make sure they have hay and water 24/7. Housing can be simple. 
The goats will eat your garden so you  will need to fence that.

There are many breeders of Nigerians. You can get unregistered, registered, pet quality and on... there are members here that live in CA that have Nigerians. There are also dairy goat clubs with listings.

The down side.

Being honest here.... 
Goats are highly addictive. Everyone started with 2. 
Nigerian does will cycle (heat) every 3 weeks. Some scream for the 3 days they cycle. That can be a downside if you have neighbors closeby.
If you are not going to milk and simple want pets the wether market may be ideal for you. 
Wethers are neutered males. They will not cycle etc. hence far less noise.
Wethers are also substantially less.

I could add a list more but I'll stop there for now. 

Meanwhile ... Welcome to BYH!


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## IamRainey (Jan 23, 2018)

Thank you, Southern by choice!  That's helpful already.  

I had assumed I'd be better off with females because they'd be more gentle.  I won't breed and so, I assume I won't milk.  Consequently, the noise could cause a big problem with my neighbors.  

I hadn't even considered neutered males.


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## Baymule (Jan 23, 2018)

Goats are escape artists. They are smart, loving, fun and I would say get wethers also. You might want to get wethers that have been disbudded (dehorned) as kids. Horns can hurt if you get bumped by them, even if the goat doesn't mean to hurt you. 

All this advice from someone who has sheep......LOL


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## Devonviolet (Jan 23, 2018)

How fun, that at your stage in life, you are being so adventurous, and considering goats!  I can say that, because I am only a few years behind you and we have three LaMancha dairy goats, 2 of which are I am milking and which I am milking, so I can make butter and mozzarella cheese.

Generally speaking, if you are milking dairy goats, you breed them once a year, to refresh (or freshen) their milk supply. Both of my girls (Falina and Ruby) were bred in November for April births. We also have a 9 month old doeling, Angelica, which was still too young to breed last Fall.

@Southern by choice gave you some good advise there.  I started with four Nigerian Dwarfs three years ago, and progressed to dairy goats last Winter.  Angelica was born to Ruby, last April.  I sold the Niggies shortly after I got my girls.

My Niggie wethers were sweet boys, who were more than happy to let me love on them, if I gave them some treats such as apple or orange pieces or fruit tree leaves.  My girls think orange & grapefruit rinds are like candy!!!  

In answer to your question about how long goats can live, if well cared for, they can live anywhere from 7-13 or 14 or sometimes longer.  And as SBC said, goats are very addictive. So, beware of "goat math". Goats are so much fun and easy to love, it's hard to stop at two!!!

Edited to add:  you said to "Lay it on me!" @IamRainey. So, I will also say, it will be a challenge to have two goats on 1/2 acre, with the patio, guest house, pool and 3 car garage, in addition to the front yard and house. Although, depending on how the neighbor's feel about it, you could take the goats, on a leash, to the front yard, to browse on the front lawn.

But, please don't be tempted to cut back to one goat, to save room.  Goats are social animals and they NEED at least one other goat for company.


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## IamRainey (Jan 23, 2018)

My husband is not enthusiastic about this idea.  He was a farm boy when he was a kid and he says goats smell awful.  

We will probably be selling our house in a couple years and he thinks they'll make it impossible to sell the house.


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## Devonviolet (Jan 23, 2018)

Your husband may be right about the goats. Especially since you are planning to sell in a couple years. Although, if you put down hay and keep their area clean, they don't have to smell bad.

Have you considered a few chickens instead?  My husband suggests 2 or 3 Barred Rocks.  Of all our chickens the Barred Rocks are his favorites, because they are so friendly.  We also have lots of ducks, and he does have a Muscovy, with which he has made friends.  It follows him everywhere . . . Probably because it likes the extra grain he throws it's way.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 23, 2018)

Goats do not smell bad. 
Intact bucks do have an odor, when they are in rut (breeding season fall- early winter) they smell pretty rank.

Does and wethers do not smell.  Our goats even get baths. 

Dry lotting in a pen is fine as long as they have things to hop on, get human interaction and attention. You can also train them to walk on a lead.

Here is a pen... I can't find a picture that shows the whole thing... but this is where we raise our bottle babies.
Keeps them safe, they learn good social skills, get use to the LGD's (livestock guardian dogs) and start to adjust... as they grow some will be sold, some will be retained. They can then gradually adjust to the big herd in a safe way. This way they grow well, not competing for feed with the big goats, have no parasites, and keep safe. There is a reason they call them kids... perpetual toddlers is what they are.
We spend lots of time with our bottle babies.

If you notice, it  is a DRY lot. We made it this way, with crushed pack rock- looks like a dirt/dust.
Sweeping the berries (poop) off with a broom is easy.  Spent hay is raked and shoveled. The rains wash it beautifully.


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## Latestarter (Jan 24, 2018)

Greetings and welcome. Glad you came over! Now the fun stuff can start happening.

Just so you're aware, the dogs pictured in the above are very LARGE dogs! Like 140 pounds and up. The goats are very teeny tiny and as nigies, the goats will never achieve that size or weight. They really can be like pet dogs. You can put them on a leash and walk them. Let them eat all your disliked neighbor's best shrubbery and plantings...  They poop rabbit sized pellets that are dry and "cool" meaning they don't "burn" vegetation like chicken poop does. As was stated, non altered male goats go into rut in the fall and become quite fragrant (I don't find it entirely disgusting or as bad/terrible as some describe it, but it is distinctive and noticeable). Wethers don't go into rut and don't smell bad at all. If you have poorly drained ground or let wet bedding and waste build up, then it's going to create odors. As long as you clean up, no issue.

Hope you'll stay with us and maybe consider starting a journal so we can follow along on your journey.


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## Mini Horses (Jan 24, 2018)

Welcome...goats are awesome!  I have 12 large dairy goats.  BUT they will eat your garden -- flower & veggie -- browse on your shrubs and trees, and that can be a downside for you.   While we don't consider the pellets an issue, you may want to think on that.  They just go where they are, when they want to.   If they can get onto the patio, pool area ........ well, hubby will NOT be happy.

So while we all love ours, none of us are working within the space and environment you have.   I certainly know you can contain them but, they will require work to keep order within what sounds like a lovely home & yard.  So we will "lay it on you" to let you know what to expect.  Kudos on the chicken coop!

I'm older than you, so it isn't about our age.  Besides, I love the exercise and challenge of my little farm & lifestyle.


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## IamRainey (Jan 24, 2018)

Thank you all for the candid comments!  I'm learning with every one.  ...tho I still haven't heard much about what care they will need.  

Yes, Devonviolet, I have considered chickens.  In fact, I have a small coop and flock and enjoying them is what makes me want more farm animals.  Mine are a Plymouth Rock, a Cream Legbar and a Barnvelder.  In June I'll be getting a Black Morans, a Swedish Flower Hen, a Lavender Orpington and a Weyendotte chicks.  I figure these will be enough to last me so I want to experience as many and as handsome as possible.  

As for my age, Mini Horses, I know I could enjoy and take care of the animals.  That's precisely the experience I'm after for my grandson and for myself! The issue is that my husband and I are not in our retirement home.  We expect to be moving in a few years when my husband does retire.  So keeping our present house sale-able and not complicating the moving process are the age-related issues.  

Our next digs may be a bit more rural and may have a bit more space and even be somewhat less manicured.  We're both looking forward to a variety of animals then!


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## IamRainey (Jan 24, 2018)

I should have asked about predators as well.  We have raccoons and coyotes n our vicinity.  For my chickens I had to dig 18" and bury the hardware cloth  360K around them to protects them.  

I guess goat would be safe from hawks but how would they fare with the mammalian predators?  Would I need to shut them up every night.  And how strong would their enclosure need to be?


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## Mini Horses (Jan 24, 2018)

We are enablers here     Give us an inch and we will take you a mile!   Many of us are farmers who have retired, living our dream and loving it.

You can provide a shed for the goats and close them at night.  So long as they have water, hay and ventilation, they will be fine. For two, using it as a bedroom, an 8X8 would work.  Open onto a fenced lot for daytime.  They do jump extremely well.  Think about that with fencing and what is placed by it,  thus allowing "steps" for them to escape.  They do need shade from strong sun and shelter from wind/rain.   As a dog would.  They can easily be trained to walk on a lead.  When young & small, hawks can pick them up.  Older, mostly your coyotes are major!   A coon can attack but generally prefer your chickens & eggs.  Rabies vaccine the kids...in case.

Stay with us.   You all will soon be fully retired and "farming" like many of us.   I still work PT but off today and made a few bucks digging some ditches for another as  I have a backhoe on my tractor.  Love my tractor!  Love to ride it.  We aren't old, just getting started with fun things.     It's my version of off roading.  Most of us are anxiously awaiting warmer weather to get gardens going, kids & lambs are being born, an exciting time.


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## Latestarter (Jan 24, 2018)

Aside from their food, I guess you should plan on them getting a CD&T vaccine once a year. You can buy the innoculation and syringe/needle at a farm store and do it yourself. Not expensive... less than $10 I would say. If you do give rabies, that would have to be by a vet. Many don't do rabies for livestock, just the dogs as required by law. You have to check on that locally with vets/goat owners and see what's the accepted practice.

As for care aside from the above... you need to have hay available to them 24/7. Maybe a small serving of goat feed daily. If you buy wethers, you can buy a feed with Ammonium Chloride AC already added to help avoid urinary calculi UC. You can also get minerals for them that includes AC. You'll need some "treats" for them and the selection there is pretty broad. Many are mentioned throughout the site here. Fresh water goes without saying. And probably the most important is personal contact by you with them. They are very friendly animals and very inquisitive. As a result, given the opportunity, they WILL get themselves in trouble. Many say goats are just looking for ways to kill themselves. It's not really THAT bad, but sometimes it may seem so. Like breaking into your chicken food and gorging causing bloat, which can kill them... That sort of thing.

A 20' x 20' fenced area would be "adequate" for dry lotting a couple of Nigie goats. More if you can give it would be better of course. You could put a few elevated things inside for them to climb/jump on for entertainment as long as they are not close to the fence. The fence should be 4' min and welded wire is not recommended as goats can be hard on fencing. Woven wire is better. You could also go as strong as chain link. If you did, you could always pass it off as a dog kennel area when you put the place up for sale. An 8' x 8' shed with adequate ventilation should be adequate for their sleeping needs, getting out of the rain, and when closed, security from coyotes/stray-neighbor-your dog attacks. A coyote can jump straight up 5' plus, but the fencing is still the best line of defense as they could get in, but not back out carrying a goat. In the end when it's time to sell, just remove the fencing and lay down sod. Or leave it and as I said, call it a kennel.


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