# Advice on Picking the Better Hay



## rachels.haven (Feb 21, 2019)

Hello out there!
I'm stuck buying hay in late February after a move. It's very expensive ($37/100lbs!!!). I have one doe freshening in March and it looks like my other two does are open. I also have 2 bucklings. I get to choose between straight alfalfa and orchard-alfalfa mix. Because of the price of the hay, I'd like to get the most cost effective option while not putting my one milking doe on a low protein or calcium diet.

I was a little dismayed when looking at the alfalfa that it appeared to be a little stemmy-very green, just looks kind of like something the goats would enjoy wasting. The orchard mix was amazingly green, but it's not alfalfa and is lower in calcium. I do have access to 20% protein alfalfa pellets ($20/50lbs) and some very soft, brown, second cut $10/bale grass hay. Everyone is also getting a balanced goat ration (either purina or dumor, I dumped them in the same can before the move for simplicity sake). I'm not sure if the feed store that carries these will eventually run out of hay though, is the problem and I don't want to be up against that wall.

What would you do? Other than get annoyed about hay price and the predicament you're in, of course.

ETA, attached thumbnail on accident. Wrong file. Please ignore.

Orchard Alfalfa


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## rachels.haven (Feb 21, 2019)

Other Page of Orchard-Alfalfa if I didn't mess it up this time.


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## rachels.haven (Feb 21, 2019)

Alfalfa


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Feb 22, 2019)

Miss @goatgurl, Miss @B&B Happy goats, @Goat Whisperer, Miss @Baymule, Miss @Carla D, Miss @farmerjan, Mr @greybeard, Mr @Latestarter, Mr @Bruce, @Mike CHS, and any one else,

Can one or more of you help out one of our BYH members find the right hay?  I would advise if I knew what I was talking about.

ETA: fixed Latestarter's name spelling, added Mike CHS.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## B&B Happy goats (Feb 22, 2019)

Good morning, how is Massachusetts  living working for you ? Thats where I grew up....beautiful historic New England, i hope the cold weather isn t getting to you ....it sure is pretty there....
just my thoughts,  how about using alpha pellets and find a locally grown hay ?  The pellets would be a consistant source of nutritional  value along with your pellet feed, the hay quality will be harder to find a source that is affordable....are ther any Tractor Suppyls near you or call local county extension for information. Sorry I can't  help you more, but , that is what I would use....love the alpha pellets, mixeds with feed pellets, a little BOSS and top dress minerals.....we have very content girls eating that and chopmin on costal hay here in Florida.....


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## rachels.haven (Feb 22, 2019)

Hi,
I'm not finding the weather too bad. We're enjoying it actually. It seems to be a lot warmer and much sunnier than the Detroit area and the kids are playing outside every day as long as it's above 20 degrees. So far so good.

The problem is there isn't a lot of local hay right now, and the brown stuff from my local feed store is supposed to be the "good" stuff. It's just the wrong time during the wrong year. According to locals it was very wet all the way through cutting time so there wasn't a lot of hay period and what was cut mostly wound up as baleage. All the alfalfa baleage on CL is comforting though because next year there's a good chance at least some of it will be baled alfalfa hay.
I should definitely keep checking CL though, and maybe go out to see some new hays if any come up.

The pellets at my local store are $20/bag (at least 20% protein though, which is nice), and my TSC is a bit on the far side for planning regular trips. I could save $4/bag by going there though (15% protein pellets). But the pellets with whatever hay I can find until first cutting time are my fall back plan this point. I'm trying to avoid that due to bad quality and the fact that it wouldn't be that much cheaper.


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## B&B Happy goats (Feb 22, 2019)

Understand  that one, are you near Sterling Mass. Or any New Hampshire areas, hay will be more available  and cheaper in N.H. ???


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## rachels.haven (Feb 22, 2019)

I'm 8 miles from the NH border and I've been checking there too. This is how I'm winding up with expensive hay. I'm considering plain mix grass hay as long as it's soft now. Not sure how I feel about it. Also not sure I can find good hay. Things were wet.

 I can afford annoying expensive hay-I've put money aside for it-but DANG, that's really expensive. Plus, I'm not sure which one is better to boot and I'm not sure I want to mess things up on that $cale. Currently I'm leaning toward the orchard mix. The calciumhosphorus is the right ratio for bucks, and I can alfalfa pellet my milking doe in the stand.

On the plus side, I don't know what it is, but as long as I feed really soft hay my goats waste almost nothing. I'm not sure what the deal with that is or if it will change if herd dynamics change or something but it's nice right now.


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## rachels.haven (Feb 22, 2019)

Calcium : Phosphorus, lol.


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## B&B Happy goats (Feb 22, 2019)

Well thats good you are close to the NH border, come hay time you will find better prices there.....hope you are enjoying your new experiences  in the land of yankee and history, it is a great place to grow up for sure....and when you get older and tired, there is always the warm south, lol....


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## rachels.haven (Feb 22, 2019)

Yes thanks! Lots of hope for the future!
And I like the south. Maybe someday we'll head down there.


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## B&B Happy goats (Feb 22, 2019)

rachels.haven said:


> Yes thanks! Lots of hope for the future!
> And I like the south. Maybe someday we'll head down there.


No big parasite problem with wniter freezes there...florida omg...land of the never ending goat parasites...constantly  on top of it....


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## B&B Happy goats (Feb 22, 2019)

I have a old friend who farms still in NH. He may have hay, he is located in the farmington NH area , let me know if you want me to pm you his contact information to call and check....


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## B&B Happy goats (Feb 22, 2019)

Just checked, CL , farmington, NH, first cut timothy hay $6.00 square bale...in Stratton. ..


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## Carla D (Feb 22, 2019)

I’m not very good with this sort of thing yet. My reasoning may be off base by a bit. But this is what I’d do and my reasoning for it.

My first choice would be the orchard/alfalfa. Reasoning is: it’s less stemmy which to my goats more of it would get eaten and potentially less waste. I would use this sparingly, meaning dont put out extra for them to waste. Only enough with a very small amount left over when you go out to do your next feeding. I would also use the alfalfa pellets to supplement the hay. $10/bale is way to much to pay for something that is brown and not a really good quality of purely alfalfa bale. At least in our area it is. I would think about getting a small stash of the $10 hay bales if you are worried about running out of alfalfa or orchard mix in your area before the first crop of spring is harvested. If i had any left when you are able to buy much better, id use your left over brown grass as bedding to use it up. Im thinking that $10/bale will ultimately be about $50/100#. Here that type of bale only weighs about 20#. Incidentally my goofy goats ate that much better than they do nice alfalfa.

But honestly I really like what @B&B Happy goats suggested much better than my idea. It probably is also your cheapest option. You could always buy or order a couple to a few bales of the Standlee compressed bales as a “treat”. They are fairly reasonable. Standlee has the best quality of compressed bales I’ve seen so far. I don’t think the prices are too bad for a 40-50# bale either.

This is straight from the Standlee website.

 

This is what our local TSC sells their Standlee products for. I do buy the Alfalfa/Orchard bales and the Timothy bales to offer to both my goats and rabbits. Oddly the rabbits prefer the Alfalfa/Orchard mixed bales and my goats prefer the Timothy. I had planned on using the bales for the opposite animals.


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## Mini Horses (Feb 22, 2019)

They will waste the stemmy alfalfa, go with the mix.  Stems stay & leaves are powder, total waste.   If you can find plain grass, decent grass, use it.   Add alpha pellets and some beet pulp, a little boss & or some flax seed.  You can get flax at grocery, whole or ground.  It's to balance chemicals with the BP, just add a little on top of ration.  They will get enough long stem & nutrition. Only a short time until grass is growing again!!!      I'm far South, in VA, so I have grasses started up now...and I am so thankful!

You would THINK they would love those stems, given how eager they are to eat tree bark, limbs and our favorite bushes!


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## farmerjan (Feb 22, 2019)

Hi and welcome.  I am a former Ct and Vermont Yankee moved to Va in 1981.  My parents retired to NH  although are getting up inage and health concerns for my mother.  But they will never move away from up there. 
I did talk to them and they had as bad a year for trying to make hay as we did here in Va.  Way too wet, very few breaks where we had 3-5 days of dry to make hay.  It was all made "late" quality wasn't great, but it got made.  
I would get some of the orchard grass/alfalfa and see if they like it.  And a bale of the "brown" hay.  We actually made a field of orchard grass after we had 8 inches of snow on it in late Dec.  It tested at 12% protein and the calves eat it with no problem.  It was "cured on the stem" freeze dried actually.  Figured that a little supplement with feed would be better than nothing.  As the saying goes here, " it beats snowballs".  
Stemmy alfalfa winds up with alot of waste.  Most farmers here will chop 1st and 2nd cuttings, then the stems are not near so thick and tough and we try to get about 150 sq bales a year for the sheep and for my nurse cows.  I'd rather feed it as baleage but don't know if the sheep or goats or smaller ruminants should have it.  My nurse cows and calves love it. 

Timothy is a very good hay.  I like it better than orchard grass, but it doesn't do good here because it doesn't like the hotter summers.  Of course this past year it would have been well watered.  We had nearly twice our normal rainfall last year.  It also doesn't seem to be letting up.  Have had twice the normal already to date.... don't want a drought in July/Aug but sure would like a little less right now.  The fields are a disaster and just getting around to feed is a nightmare. 
I would go see about the timothy.  If it looks good and smells decent, then I would get it.  We don't test all our hay, and many farmers don't.  You get to where you can look at the animals and get a feel for their nutrition level.  But testing the hay was important this year because we have some that is way low, and we are having to supplement with both energy and protein for the calves.   At 6.00 a sq bale, that is pretty reasonable.  I would buy 500 bales if it was available here.  

They need bulk, roughage.  It is cheaper if the hay also tests good, but you can supplement and it doesn't have to be alot.  Since you are milking, give the doe what she needs on the milk stand;  give the others a little grain as a supplement, and feed the less expensive hay.  It is only for a few months and then hopefully you can find a farm close that you can maybe pick it up out of the field, or off the wagon and get a better price.  Get enough timothy to see you through if it is decent, get a few of the orchard grass mix for extra protein for the doe... limit feed it so they clean it up in an hour or two, and then let them have the other hay.  Don't be surprised if the timothy is decent and they like it better.


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 22, 2019)

Get the orchard. 
Why is it so expensive?
I'm in NC and they truck orchard/alfalfa from NY and it cost's about $13 for 75 lb bale.

Edited:
Try some of the brown hay.  Some grass hays don't cure as green as orchard grass and alfalfa. It may be fine.
What kind of goats do you have?


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## greybeard (Feb 22, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @greybeard, Mr ... and any one else,
> 
> Can one or more of you help out one of our BYH members find the right hay?  I would advise if I knew what I was talking about.
> 
> ...


That's too far north for me to have much relevant input and I never buy alfalfa anyway.


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## rachels.haven (Feb 22, 2019)

I have nigerians. All but two tend to keep weight on acceptably. One is always thinner and narrower like a miniature dairy goat and the other seems to have a lower worm resistance and seems needs alfalfa to stay nice and chunky. She's the one I know for sure is going into milk of course. 

The goats are currently on the brown hay, and it's $10/about 60lbs bale. They don't have much enthusiasm for it, although they are eating it, but the feed store is going through batches of hay fast so the hay today is not the hay tomorrow, so I can't really count on them to be a long term hay source or be able to deliver good hay (hay you looked at may not be the hay you get, according to person I talked to this afternoon, and they won't check the nutrition in any of the batches for this reason-selling out too fast). I really need my own stash, and after calling them, apparently I need my own hay trailer or truck too so I will know what I bring home. I'm giving everyone alfalfa pellets to correct any Ca : P imbalance. I'd like to have nice enough hay that I don't have to do that.

I've also decided first cutting hay isn't worth it. The goats waste half of it and then it's just as expensive if not 2x more than the 2nd cutting. It's the soft stuff that's never wasted for me and they eat all of. They're training me good apparently. So I'm hunting for soft enough stuff.

I'm now in touch with a guy in New York who has 2nd cutting brome/grass/alfalfa in large square bales that he says we can push off the truck. The hay was analyzed at 16% protein and a good ca : p ratio. He's seeing if he can find another delivery guy going my way to stick my hay on with. I'm not confident we can push 640 lbs 3x3x8 bale off a truck, but if we can I'd go with that. I may tell him never mind tomorrow as I'm really not sure that would work and we'd have hay stuck on a truck that wants to keep on going. It would be a relief though. It would be more bulk priced as opposed to premium from out west oregon hay for $37/100lbs. It's also possible he won't be able to find anyone. Aw, well.

I'm trying to avoid the expensive stuff. I will probably wind up doing it anyway. Even if I have to go the expensive route I only need enough until cutting season starts, although I'd prefer to wait until 2nd cutting time because if second cuttings didn't get taken last year, this years first is going to be full of last years mature stalks and not nutrition. Darn, all this because I couldn't bring my hay stash.

I guess the gist of things is that no matter what everything will be fine and if I have to get the premium expensive hay I will go with the orchard mix, which I was leaning towards anyway.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 22, 2019)

Pushing a big bale out of a truck is actually really easy. Especially if it is only 640#. It’s easier than one would think. 

Right now we use a 15 passenger van to transport, it’s a little more difficult to unload the hay but certainly doable. When using a truck it’s really simple. 

We (feed store employees & I) would actually just rotate and push the bales out of the trailers & into the truck. To onload just back up over some 4x4s and push the bale off.


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## Bruce (Feb 24, 2019)

rachels.haven said:


> I'm not confident we can push 640 lbs 3x3x8 bale off a truck, but if we can I'd go with that.


You could maybe attach a rope around the bale connected to something behind the truck, then just drive the truck forward and the bale would fall off?


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## rachels.haven (Feb 24, 2019)

I bet it would. I've seen people online discussing doing just that. 
However, I think I'm just going to go down to the local feed store and look at their hay, make sure it's still nice enough and just set up a delivery. $10/60 lbs of hay is better than $37/100 lbs of hay. I can't quite swallow that price. I'll also supplement with alfalfa pellets when necessary. My bucklings still have some growing to do after all.

Then next year, when prices are more normal I will order several tons of hay, and NOT MOVE so I can use that nice hay all year. I think that's my game plan at this point.
Thanks guys.


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## Bruce (Feb 24, 2019)

Yeah, not moving would be a good plan  

Hopefully this will be a better hay year. Apparently too wet down your way last year and a long drought up here. 1 cutting, nothing was growing from July on.


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## CrockpotGodess (Feb 27, 2019)

I live in brookline NH. Right next to Townsend MA border. I have some hay ideas if going to NH. Pm if you have not found an option.


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## rachels.haven (Feb 27, 2019)

Thanks, I may. Still using my feed store. Nice to onlinemeet someone 20ish minutes away. Wonderful to know there's an option nearby.


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## Bruce (Feb 27, 2019)

CrockpotGodess said:


> I live in brookline NH. Right next to Townsend MA border.


So does DW's brother and his family! They aren't "herd" people though. In fact I don't think they currently even have any pets.


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## Thornpaw (Mar 1, 2019)

rachels.haven said:


> Hello out there!
> I'm stuck buying hay in late February after a move. It's very expensive ($37/100lbs!!!). I have one doe freshening in March and it looks like my other two does are open. I also have 2 bucklings. I get to choose between straight alfalfa and orchard-alfalfa mix. Because of the price of the hay, I'd like to get the most cost effective option while not putting my one milking doe on a low protein or calcium diet.
> 
> I was a little dismayed when looking at the alfalfa that it appeared to be a little stemmy-very green, just looks kind of like something the goats would enjoy wasting. The orchard mix was amazingly green, but it's not alfalfa and is lower in calcium. I do have access to 20% protein alfalfa pellets ($20/50lbs) and some very soft, brown, second cut $10/bale grass hay. Everyone is also getting a balanced goat ration (either purina or dumor, I dumped them in the same can before the move for simplicity sake). I'm not sure if the feed store that carries these will eventually run out of hay though, is the problem and I don't want to be up against that wall.
> ...


There is a product called Chaffhaye. Chopped alfalfa molasses and probiotics. Comes in 50lb bags. Goats love it and there is zero waste. They lick the feeders. Feeding rate is 2-2.5lbs per 100lb animal. Chaffhaye.com. it costs me $14 a bag but none of it is on the ground


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## rachels.haven (Mar 1, 2019)

Wow, that's cheaper than my hay choices. I'll look into it. Worried the price out here may be much higher, but it would be great to know. I've been scared off by stories of bad batches of chaff hay fed to goats and causing fatalities, but it may be worth a look, at least for winter and early spring milking.

ETA: Woah, I wish it was $14/bag! Nope, looks like everything is about $20/50lbs, although sounds like waste will be less, so I consider it still an option.


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