# New to dairy goats, We have many questions and need suggestions plez:D



## Cuttlefishherder (May 24, 2010)

1. We want to get 2 dairy goats for the family, we are looking for Medium to Small sized goats that are really good milk producers and are getting them as kids(sisters as a hope) and are child friendly. We have done research our self's and are looking at LaMachas or Mini Nubians, If any one has any other suggestions for Dairy goats, please speak your mind(we live in AZ so heat tolerance is an issue too) 
(Mutts do they produce a lot of milk as well?)

2. How much are they going to cost are we going to be out a lot or a little?

3. When can they be adopted out? What age? No bottle feeding.

4. HOUSING. We are thinking of letting the dogs and the goats live together in the same run, Is this a good idea? Bad? We are getting a farm dog puppy that will grow up with the goats and an older dog who is animal friendly(Border Collie Lab cross). There is a tall 5 foot chain link fence around it and is very spacious with a cedar chips as bedding we are adding a shelter before we get the goats so they have a place away from the monsoons.

5. Foods, what all do you feed your dairy goat? We grow lots of herbs in the front yard and lots of sunflowers too. Is there any thing else we should consider feeding them next to Goat feed and greens squash ect?


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## Roll farms (May 24, 2010)

Unless there's a poster from your area, you'll probably need to do the zoning / permits / etc. research yourself.

And there's not much point in the rest if you can't have them where you live.  
A call to your local county offices should settle that up for you.


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## Cuttlefishherder (May 24, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Unless there's a poster from your area, you'll probably need to do the zoning / permits / etc. research yourself.
> 
> And there's not much point in the rest if you can't have them where you live.
> A call to your local county offices should settle that up for you.


Yes we are allowed  goats, we put that question down while we were looking it up lol


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## freemotion (May 24, 2010)

www.fiascofarm.com has tons of great information.

My first doe paid for herself very quickly in milk and dairy products.  The cost depends on so many factors that we can't really give you a figure.  It really depends on your area, your land, how much pasture/browse you have, what hay costs there, etc.

The babies should be at least two months old for weaning.

I personally would never put a dog that was not raised with goats in with goats.  Even some dogs who are raised with them will turn on them.  Dogs are predators and goats are yummy!  And they run!  

Goats main food needs to be hay, pasture, and/or browse.  Veggies are a nice supplement, but they need coarse roughage in order for their rumens to work correctly.

I would strongly advise you to start with a doe that is very good at being milked first, before buying a baby or youngster that has never been milked.  Milking a first freshener can be very difficult and frustrating, even for an experienced milker.  And a pregnant or lactating doe that is easy to milk will still pay for herself within that first season, so it is win-win.  You can then raise up one of her babies if you'd like to train a first freshener yourself.  Save yourself some tears...they water down the milk and make it salty.


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## Joel David (May 24, 2010)

I can't help much as I only have chickens so far but I did start an AZ thread in the "where are you who are you" section In hopes that it would grow by the time my wife and I start getting some goats .


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## Cuttlefishherder (May 25, 2010)

Joel David said:
			
		

> I can't help much as I only have chickens so far but I did start an AZ thread in the "where are you who are you" section In hopes that it would grow by the time my wife and I start getting some goats .


We have so many chickens! A friend had to give up his chickens so we took his 8 and added them to out 15! I hope you have good luck with your goats, there are a lot more breeders out where you are than where we are. I'll check out your thread


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## Cuttlefishherder (May 25, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> www.fiascofarm.com has tons of great information.
> 
> My first doe paid for herself very quickly in milk and dairy products.  The cost depends on so many factors that we can't really give you a figure.  It really depends on your area, your land, how much pasture/browse you have, what hay costs there, etc.
> 
> ...


I love Fiasco! that was the first place I found and I still reference it!

I am the main knower of goats right now, I just want to know that I'm not missing any thing and that I have good references.

Thanks for the roughage thing, I'll make sure they get what they need.

Doesn't the doe still need a buddy? Wont she be lonely till the baby?

This dog didn't eat the chickens when she got locked in the coop, she cleaned the bunnies, and sleeps with the cats. I think the goats will be safe. I will keep an eye out though, that possibility is entirely there, it makes me paranoid. But she didn't eat the bite sized bunny, it was just all kinds of doggy clean!


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## lupinfarm (May 25, 2010)

2. Cost ranges HUGELY across states, provinces and nations. In my neck of the woods a weaned doeling from a good producer (may not be registered!) will set you back anywhere from $250 - $....infinity, because the registered animals tend to go for high price. This may (and most likely) is not the same for your area. Apparently we liked to pay a lot for our livestock here 

3. I hate that word. "Adopted." 2 Months, but honestly while your goats are going to be friends and producers, they're livestock all the same so you're buying, not adopting. It just makes it sound better if you're adopting, but its not the same thing as a cat or a dog from a shelter. 

4. I would not at ALL house the dogs with the goats. Especially young goats! Not only do dogs eat foods that goats should not, but even a dog raised with goats may wind up seriously injuring your beloved milking goats (which you paid a lot for, eep!). 

5. Hay. Pasture. ect. Since my girls aren't on full pasture and it sounds like yours won't be either, I'd get yourself a *really* good hay producer/supplier. Currently I feed some nice quality alfalfa hay in their barn and during the day they're out in a small yard until my goat fencing is finished. I'll be feeding just grass hay next time I buy since my two does are not milking does (currently, they're only Pygmy's so...). 

Have fun and all that stuff


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## PattySh (May 25, 2010)

I would not keep a dog and a goat(s) in the same pen. For sanitary and safety reasons. I wouldn't want a goat I milk stepping or lying in dog poo. My friend's very quiet lab mix almost killed one of her goats last year "playing" with it. It got into chase mode and started getting really aggressive and the goats legs got  tore up pretty bad. The dog chased the goat out of her electric fence. I think it started as harmless playing and escalated. I started out with breeding age does (first fresheners) and also bought a few bottle baby doelings to raise to increase milk production next year. I would caution that when buying a doe in milk you taste the milk, years back I bought a doe with very nasty tasting milk and pretty sure that's why she was available. I have a mininubian and she is a super easy milker with large teats. She gives a quart morning and evening. I also have an alpine/probably nigerianX (tiny goat) and she is milking 3/4 gallon a day, so the mini ones are productive and easy keepers to boot! I am lucky to have a large barn we built a few years ago. Built for  horses and now comfortably houses horses, goats, a couple of cows, and rabbits!  Our goats always have access to hay and water and mineral blocks, are given grain twice a day.  The does have a large pen, as do growing does, little bucks have a seperate pen as well as new babies.  My does come and go during the day.  I open the door to the pasture after morning milking  for the does and close it after nite milking and they eat less hay this time of year and are browsing alot. My babies are inside with hay and grain and we have playtime once a day where they can go out and browse. My buck has his own fenced grassy paddock with a shed.


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## cmjust0 (May 25, 2010)

Cuttlefishherder said:
			
		

> 1. We want to get 2 dairy goats for the family, we are looking for Medium to Small sized goats that are really good milk producers and are getting them as kids(sisters as a hope) and are child friendly. We have done research our self's and are looking at LaMachas or Mini Nubians, If any one has any other suggestions for Dairy goats, please speak your mind(we live in AZ so heat tolerance is an issue too)
> (Mutts do they produce a lot of milk as well?)


Nigerian or Mini Nubian...just my $.02.



> 2. How much are they going to cost are we going to be out a lot or a little?


Depends entirely on the goat..



> 3. When can they be adopted out? What age? No bottle feeding.


>8wks



> 4. HOUSING. We are thinking of letting the dogs and the goats live together in the same run, Is this a good idea? Bad? We are getting a farm dog puppy that will grow up with the goats and an older dog who is animal friendly(Border Collie Lab cross). There is a tall 5 foot chain link fence around it and is very spacious with a cedar chips as bedding we are adding a shelter before we get the goats so they have a place away from the monsoons.


Depends on the dog..  Some dogs guard goats; some dogs kill goats.  If it's not a livestock guardian breed I wouldn't do it...and a BCxLab isn't a livestock guardian breed.  



> 5. Foods, what all do you feed your dairy goat? We grow lots of herbs in the front yard and lots of sunflowers too. Is there any thing else we should consider feeding them next to Goat feed and greens squash ect?


HAY.  If they don't have access to graze/browse, their primary diet should be hay.  If they need supplementation, give them bagged feed....otherwise, hay.


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## Cuttlefishherder (May 25, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> 3. I hate that word. "Adopted." 2 Months, but honestly while your goats are going to be friends and producers, they're livestock all the same so you're buying, not adopting. It just makes it sound better if you're adopting, but its not the same thing as a cat or a dog from a shelter.


Lol, I was thinking that too, but its for the sake of the little brothers, they think buying is a mean term.


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## Cuttlefishherder (May 25, 2010)

Thanks every one for all of the help! This is going to make things much easier!  We hope to have them in a few months now, I am going to see about a different space for our new girls


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## savingdogs (May 25, 2010)

We were in your position a year ago. While certainly there are people more expert on here, this is our story:

We fell in love with nubians at the local county fair. While not on sale there, the local 4H folk were very friendly and were able to point out someone who had some for sale afterwards. This family wanted their goats to go to a good home so they spent several hours educating us on how to care for goats in our area, where the good feed store prices are, where to get their hay, etc.  We were lucky enough to have an enclosure that had been set up for dogs that was super easy to convert to goat housing, as long as we chose short goats! They suggested a water bucket set up which they can't kick over which we really appreciate.

So the mixes we found (nubian mixed with nigerian/pygmy) were the perfect size and we paid $250.00 for them. Two females and a  wether, disbudded and vaccinated already (siblings). They were extremely tame and we brought them home at three months old. We feed hay which we can purchase here for 8-13 dollars a bale and it lasts them about two weeks for a bale. We also give the two females grain, which was 15.00 for the bag, but we are still using the first bag and we have had them nine months! We also feed alfalfa pellets, which are 10 dollars a bag and are a great treat that our little male can enjoy too (males can't have grain).  Still on bag number three. We were also instructed to offer free choice baking soda and dry minerals, a particular brand formulated for our area. Cheap. These items add up, but our investment so far is still not too bad.

You also need a good hoof trimmer but I was lucky enough to have an excellent pair of garden shears which work well. We also used dog crates which we already owned to transport them and converted an old car rack into a hay rack for them (they waste hay unless you kinda hang it for them). I'll also eventually need a milking stanchion!

One unexpected expense was the loss of a fruit tree which they knocked over which was almost more expensive than everything else put together, so you might keep that in mind that if they can see an orchard, they will not be able to resist! 

We ADORE these goats and never ever in a million years thought we would be so entertained by them growing up. We bought them for milk but find they are our friends and pets and the milk is going to be secondary. We will still need to invest in stud fee (not interested in keeping an intact male) when it comes time to breed the girls but at that point we will have quite a herd if we get any twins or triplets, and so far the expenses have not been great and have been spread out over time. We do have them forage a lot on our property, so that is part of how our hay bill stays down to around 20.00 per month for three (they are also small!). 

We have had dogs forever and rescue humane society dogs so have known very very many (we are on rescues 336 and 337) and I would NEVER ever trust a dog unsupervised with a goat., with the possible exception of one specially bred and raised for it and even then I'd have to see it for myself first before I'd trust it. We own six dogs and only three of them are trustworthy with the goats under supervision.

I hope my imput helps!


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## Cuttlefishherder (May 25, 2010)

savingdogs said:
			
		

> So the mixes we found (nubian mixed with nigerian/pygmy) were the perfect size and we paid $250.00 for them. Two females and a  wether, disbudded and vaccinated already (siblings). They were extremely tame and we brought them home at three months old. We feed hay which we can purchase here for 8-13 dollars a bale and it lasts them about two weeks for a bale. We also give the two females grain, which was 15.00 for the bag, but we are still using the first bag and we have had them nine months! We also feed alfalfa pellets, which are 10 dollars a bag and are a great treat that our little male can enjoy too (males can't have grain).  Still on bag number three. We were also instructed to offer free choice baking soda and dry minerals, a particular brand formulated for our area. Cheap. These items add up, but our investment so far is still not too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, that's great, I will make sure that the goats are well watched around the dog(We can only let the dogs out in the run when needed). We are getting a puppy to raise with them, hopefully that dog will be gentle with the goats, but if not we have the supplies to build another enclosure and a temporary place for them to stay in the mean while.

Your fruit tree story is a familiar one, the dogs knocked over a fruit tree of ours, we are really going to make sure that the goats stay where we can see them if their out, we have 30 something different young fruit trees Lol


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## glenolam (May 26, 2010)

savingdogs said:
			
		

> We feed hay which we can purchase here for 8-13 dollars a bale and it lasts them about two weeks for a bale.




$8 - $13/bale?  Guess I shouldn't feel so bad when I pay $4 - $6!  

The general start up cost for goats is a big extreme (of course, depending on how extravagant you get with your set up) but to maintain them really isn't that bad.  I would estimate that I spend $50/mo on feed/minerals/misc supplies/etc for my 3 adults and 2 kids.

Good luck and have fun!


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## lupinfarm (May 26, 2010)

Geez I pay $2.50 a bale for alfalfa and $2.50-$3.00 bale for grass mix hay


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## savingdogs (May 27, 2010)

I wonder why it is so expensive here, everyone seems to be growing hay. I do have picky goats, they don't like grass hay or orchard hay. They like alfalfa or alfalfa mix. 

I think perhaps it is expensive because we don't have selenium in our soil so the hay is from the eastern part of the state where there is more selenium.


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## lupinfarm (May 27, 2010)

Hmm.. Ontario is low in selenium in the soil..


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## cmjust0 (May 27, 2010)

savingdogs said:
			
		

> I wonder why it is so expensive here, everyone seems to be growing hay.





> I think perhaps it is expensive because we don't have selenium in our soil so the hay is from the eastern part of the state where there is more selenium.


Shipped hay is always more expensive, not only because of the transport costs, but because it has to be handled more....and nobody really _wants_ to handle hay.

Hay's heavy.  



> I do have picky goats, they don't like grass hay or orchard hay. They like alfalfa or alfalfa mix.


I've found that our goats are pickier and more wasteful when they have LOTS of hay available at all times.  I'm definitely an advocate of providing hay free choice, but you might try only providing what they'll eat in half a day..  Chances are, it's a lot less hay than you think.

Eventually, when they realize their hayfeeder actually DOES run out sometimes, they'll begin to compete for it and you might just see pickiness decrease, along with waste and cost.


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## glenolam (May 27, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> I've found that our goats are pickier and more wasteful when they have LOTS of hay available at all times.  I'm definitely an advocate of providing hay free choice, but you might try only providing what they'll eat in half a day..  Chances are, it's a lot less hay than you think.
> 
> Eventually, when they realize their hayfeeder actually DOES run out sometimes, they'll begin to compete for it and you might just see pickiness decrease, along with waste and cost.


2nd that.

When I first got my goats I was obsessed with making sure their hay feeder was full 24/7.  That got expensive as most ended up as bedding/waste hay.

So they get a bale in the feeder (which now is split into 2 feeders, so 1/2 bale per feeder for 3 adults and 2 kids), and nothing more until it's gone.  I do pick up the 'waste' they dropped daily and, assuming it's still good and not soiled on, put it back in the feeder.

I've even seen them fight over the old hay that's sprawled out in their yard because they ate the last little morsels in the feeders and they feel like they've got nothing left.  _Of course_ the feeders are filled that same day, but, hey, they don't know that


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## mossyStone (May 27, 2010)

Hay here is crazy$$$ here :?  I have paid as much as 15.00 to 18.00 a bale  for alfalfa ( not in winter)  I just found a place there price was 9 75 i thought i found a gold mine but i dont like it.. very dusty  Even our local hay  is about 6 to 10 bucks a bale and you have to be careful in what you get,,,

 We can get it cheaper by the ton, but we have to go to the East side of the state and thats a few 100 miles one way :/ which this yr we will and stock up for winter!

luckly for us we have alot of pasture and browes, 

Mossy Stone Farm


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## RockyToggRanch (May 27, 2010)

$3.00 a bale delivered and put up:/


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## lupinfarm (May 27, 2010)

Yeah my 2 get the feeder stocked at the beginning of the week, its a metal horse wall feeder.. They don't get anything more until they've cleaned it allllll up. Mine poop/urinate in one area LOL across the goat shed so they are able to eat everything that drops on the floor, and they definitely do.


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## RockyToggRanch (May 27, 2010)

I wish mine would poop in one area.


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## Lil-patch-of-heaven (May 27, 2010)

Y'all are making me wonder about my animals. I have 6 goats and two llamas. I have bought only one bale of hay when I got the first ones something like two months ago and they haven't eaten two flakes' worth yet. It's there and they can have it whenever they want but they only eat a few mouthfuls if I handfeed it to them. I think the rabbits have eaten twice what the goats and llamas have. 

They will do ANYthing for alfalfa pellets, sweet feed, or extruded horse pellets. Or raisins, crackers, etc. The hay is fresh and a good quality though just grass hay.  They just prefer the pasture and browse.


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## gbgcisco (May 28, 2010)

Cuttlefishherder said:
			
		

> Thanks every one for all of the help! This is going to make things much easier!  We hope to have them in a few months now, I am going to see about a different space for our new girls


I'm on the hay thread for now...here in Tucson, it's been about $9 - 10/bale. I have recently purchased some organic alfalfa for $13.50 from a farm in Eloy.

I have 5 mini-mancha's and if you'd like to come see our set up, I'd be happy to show you...


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