# Possible purchase or pregnant doe - bottle baby



## nstone630 (May 16, 2017)

We just had the vet draw blood on her today to cofirm if negative (for CAE, CL, and Johnes) we will purchase. Seller states 1 yr old. Been with bucks her whole life but never bred. Looks VERY pregnant to me. Vet even said so today. Vulva even looks swollen. 

Thoughts?


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## samssimonsays (May 16, 2017)

I'd say she looks pregnant. She is gorgeous either way!


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## samssimonsays (May 16, 2017)

So, you don't want her if she is pregnant or they don't want to sell if she is?


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## Latestarter (May 16, 2017)

The blood work might be for CAE/CL/Johnes...   That would be my guess anyway. If I were buying a doe who might be pregnant, I'd want her more if she was than if she wasn't... Very pretty dappling on her.


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## nstone630 (May 16, 2017)

No if she's pregnant then it's a heck of a deal lol 
I'm pending the blood results on CAE, CL and Johnes.


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## nstone630 (May 16, 2017)

Ok I edited to say what the blood work was for lol. Sorry ya'll...aren't yall just supposed to know these things


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## samssimonsays (May 16, 2017)

what was I thinking  makes so much sense hahaha


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## Goatgirl47 (May 16, 2017)

She is stunning! Definitely looks pregnant. Do you know why they are selling her?


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## nstone630 (May 16, 2017)

No specifics.


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## Goat Whisperer (May 16, 2017)

The udder is a dead give away.


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## nstone630 (May 17, 2017)

Well, we shall see then. Should get blood work back next week. I'll keep everyone posted.


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## nstone630 (May 21, 2017)

Well. This was an eventful weekend. DH and I went on vacation thursday. Get a call Friday night that this pregnant doe (now confirmed)delivered 1 kid and died .They don't know what happened. When the kid was found she was dry, most likely a few hours old. Mom was already passed. That's the sad news. So we're obviously not buying her anymore. 

But guess what I'm bottle feeding now?  we've named her Miracle. What do you guys think? I don't know what dad looked like, and honestly the sellers don't either since mom was around multiple bucks. I think she is beautiful. And under the poor circumstances, she is a miracle. How could I say no when I was offered to take her.


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## nstone630 (May 21, 2017)

And now it's nap time.

Also, she's 6 lbs.


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## Goat Whisperer (May 21, 2017)

I am so sorry to hear about the momma doe!  That is heartbreaking. I knew the doe was close, so sad she didn't make it. 

Congratulations on your new baby! She is adorable. Right now it's a bit soon to tell what she's crossed with, but her dam has Nubian in her. 

Did you give her colostrum? CAE is transmitted through colostrum, so that is something to pay attention to. 

Be careful, the bottle baby bug is vicious and addictive!


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## nstone630 (May 21, 2017)

Goat Whisperer said:


> I am so sorry to hear about the momma doe!  That is heartbreaking. I knew the doe was close, so sad she didn't make it.
> 
> Congratulations on your new baby! She is adorable. Right now it's a bit soon to tell what she's crossed with, but her dam has Nubian in her.
> 
> ...


I was very sad about the momma too. I knew she was close, just not how close. So unfortunate.

Only thing we were able to give was colostrum replacement from tractor supply.  We did get a pint of goats milk from a trusted friend who's dairy goat just had kids a couple weeks ago. 

She's taking about 2 oz every 3 hrs right now. Does that sound right for 2 days old? After that I'll go to whole cows milk.

During the day she will stay in the outside birthing pen. Tonight we are going to set her up in our garden bathtub with a blanket.


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## Goatgirl47 (May 21, 2017)

I am so sorry about the momma! 

Your new little bottle baby is adorable!


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## Latestarter (May 21, 2017)

Very cute bottle baby! Sorry momma didn't make it.  I would start mixing the whole cows milk with the goats milk in increasing amounts till it's completely swapped over. Good to change diets slowly. I've only had one kid BB and I just feed her whatever she'll take  Down to 3 feedings per day now and she basically empties a 20 oz coke bottle about every other feeding, otherwise she takes between 16-18 oz. She's now 18 days old (~2.5 weeks). She's a standard sized Lamancha goat kid (wow, time flys!).


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## Goat Whisperer (May 21, 2017)

nstone630 said:


> I was very sad about the momma too. I knew she was close, just not how close. So unfortunate.
> 
> Only thing we were able to give was colostrum replacement from tractor supply.  We did get a pint of goats milk from a trusted friend who's dairy goat just had kids a couple weeks ago.
> 
> ...


If she is strong I'd start spacing the time further apart and up the milk. 
I feed my 2# Nigerians 2oz every few hours (sometimes 3 hours, sometimes 4 hours depending on when the kid is hungry enough)

If it were one of mine I'd be giving 5oz bottles when she asks (4-5x/day) for it, she doesn't need to take the whole thing down if she doesn't want to. If she is consistently take the whole 5 oz down start increasing. 
Weigh her weekly to make sure she's gaining well. After the first 2 nights, the kids can sleep through the night as long if you do a late night feeding and early morning feeding. 

Unless something is wrong, standard size kids don't need to be fed 'round the clock like itty bitty Nigerian kids.


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## nstone630 (May 22, 2017)

I fed 4 oZ last night at 12am. She slept through the night. Took another 4 oZ first thing this morning. DH will feed her again at 12. I'll feed her at 5. Then again around 11/12. Should be a good schedule, and I'll keep increasing and weighing her.

Thanks!!!


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## nstone630 (May 22, 2017)

Living the hard life today at home with DH while I have to be at the office.  for being such a mean looking guy, he's such a sucker for this gal.


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## samssimonsays (May 22, 2017)

Adorable! I am sorry she passed but so glad that this blessing came out of it!


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## nstone630 (May 22, 2017)

samssimonsays said:


> Adorable! I am sorry she passed but so glad that this blessing came out of it!



Thank you! The whole situation was not ideal, but at this point we're moving forward. So far we seemingly have a very happy healthy doeling. 

The blood work should be back in a couple of days. Are any of CAE, CL or Johne's passed while in utero? Or is it just the milk?


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## Southern by choice (May 22, 2017)

Yes, CAE and CL _can_ be passed, although it is not the primary route. 
Johnes can be transmitted during the delivery.... although in goats not as likely as in cattle.


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## nstone630 (May 22, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> Yes, CAE and CL _can_ be passed, although it is not the primary route.
> Johnes can be transmitted during the delivery.... although in goats not as likely as in cattle.



It's a good thing then she is separated from the herd for now until we get her moms results.


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## Goatgirl47 (May 22, 2017)

I'm just curious, what will you do if the momma's test results come back positive for something?


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## nstone630 (May 22, 2017)

Goatgirl47 said:


> I'm just curious, what will you do if the momma's test results come back positive for something?



At that point we would need to have the doeling tested as well. If momma was negative then I don't believe there is a reason to test the doeling. Thoughts @Goat Whisperer?


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## misfitmorgan (May 22, 2017)

That is the cutest goat kid i have ever seen but i am a huge sucker for dapples!!


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## nstone630 (May 22, 2017)

OK vet called - all labs are negative!


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## Goat Whisperer (May 22, 2017)

That is great news!

Be sure to get the paperwork for yourself though! Many vets have accidentally misread the results, and had caused many issues for the herds involved.


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## Goatgirl47 (May 22, 2017)

Yay!!


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## nstone630 (May 23, 2017)

@Goat Whisperer I'll have results emailed to me and keep on file. 

She's slept through the night again. So, she didn't like the bathtub. She has kicked my dog out of her dog bed in the laundry room and made that her sleeping area. Which works out perfect. The dogs get to sleep with the kids (which is not the norm) and Miracle gets the laundry room all to herself. 

Last night and this morning though she's giving us the hardest time with feeding  She's been doing great up until last night. She's wanting to eat, nudging and trying to get milk out of anything/everything!  but yet since last night wants nothing to do with the nipple.  DH is luckily home again today due to the weather. So hopefully he will have some luck. Her last feeding was at 10:30pm last night. Then at 6:30am she was acting hungry, but for the life of me couldn't get her to latch on.


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## misfitmorgan (May 23, 2017)

I don't recall how old she is but you might try switching her to a pail/pan for milk feeding. I sold 3 goats kids to the same buyer this year and he didnt bother with the bottle and just dumped the formula in a pan...no problems he said. Those kids were 5-6 weeks old though.


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## nstone630 (May 25, 2017)

Miracle sure is getting bigger! I'm planning on weighing her tonight! 

She's taking the bottle MUCH better now. We are feeding her about 4 times a day and she's taking in about 6 oz each feeding. Just last night and this morning we didn't even have to help her open her mouth to take it, she opened and took it herself!  Makes life SOO much easier once they get the hang of it. 

She currently sleeps in the laundry room in the dog bed (under protest from the dogs). She's so great, we put her up around 10:30pm and she sleeps through until 6:30am the next day! And doesn't have any accidents during the night! But, you better get her outside in the morning otherwise you'll be cleaning up pee everywhere (learned b y waiting to take her out one morning). 

She's doing great and seems to be thriving. She's started to jump around, and I realize now she will be outside soon. As she's almost able to jump on the couch.  Can't have that!  Might be cute now, but when she's 150 lbs and thinks she can still do that, it'll be a problem. 

Right now with all the rain NC is getting the stall that we'd put her in is nothing but mud  We have fans out there last night and today trying to dry it out. I don't want to put her out there until it's dried up. 


I do worry though when I try to introduce her to the herd once she's a bit bigger that they will bully her.  How can I avoid that?


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## nstone630 (Jun 7, 2017)

So friday she will be 3 weeks old. She's 7 lbs. She's not eating what I think she should be. I can only get her to take 3 oz or so per feeding, every 6 hrs. Now she is grazing. She's outside a alot and I watch her etching grass and stuff. 

Is this normal? @Goat Whisperer


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## babsbag (Jun 7, 2017)

My bottle babies were taking about 12-16 oz. 3 x a day at 3 weeks. However, they were quite a bit bigger than 7 lbs, more like 15 lbs but I don't think that that is near enough milk for her. When I am feeding kids I make them refuse the bottle three time before I decide that they are really done.  

I love her colors.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 7, 2017)

She should probably have a thiamine shot (B-1) if you don't have that then a b complex shot

Her weight is not good at all and good that you see that.
What was her birth-weight?


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 7, 2017)

This is very abnormal and very concerning. I'm pretty busy right now so this is going to be short, not trying to sound rude!

Did she get real, goat colostrum? How old was it?
If it was a replacer or supplement what kind and type? (There is a difference between replacer and supplement) I know you told me but I can't remember.

I would be very concerned about G6S
Based on the pics you posted it looked like dam is a nubian cross. Nub X boer are common crosses.
If both parents carry the gene they can produce affected kids.
Google G6S in nubians and read up a bit.   

Like SBC said- BW?


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## nstone630 (Jun 7, 2017)

She's only gained 1 lb. No real colistrum, manna pro from tractor supply, mom died, no access to real. She was given real goats milk for the first few days then whole cows milk. I wasn't around when this happened, relied on a neighbor.

I have b complex. I can give her an injection.

I'll Google G6S in the mean time. Her hips seem too sunken in. Hen I weighed her and only saw a 1 lb increases and the loss of appitite, I knew something wasn't quite right.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 7, 2017)

GW wants to know if you can send a pitcure of the exact formula that was used. (She is milking right now)


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## nstone630 (Jun 7, 2017)

This is the colostrum


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## nstone630 (Jun 7, 2017)

The b complex says 5ml for every 100 lbs. Geez. I figure it's vitimins I can't really over dose, 1 ml? She will pee out what she doesn't need.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 7, 2017)

0.5 would be more the dose


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## nstone630 (Jun 7, 2017)

Ok. 0.5 it is. Giving it now.


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## nstone630 (Jun 7, 2017)

She has no interest in feeding tonight. I will give it a little while and try again. I worry this wasn't caught soon enough. 

I pray the b complex gives her the boost she needs.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 7, 2017)

What is her temperature?

She really should have been fed a colostrum replacer; not a colostrum supplement 
Don't know much about the Manna pro, but some of the other replacers from TSC are soy based. You don't want that either. 

You will need to contact your vet ASAP. Talk to your vet about possibly boosting her immune system with other vitamins and minerals and in the meantime I'd see if you can pull some hair for the G6S testing and go from there. If she is negative or a carrier you might be able to work with her and get her healthy. If she is affected/positive she simply won't live. Hoping that is not the case. I don't think there is an age requirement for G6S testing but I'm not sure. 

I hate to say this, but if she doesn't make it you should consider taking her to Rollins lab for a necropsy. 

Right now it is hard to say what exactly her issue is without seeing her etc. 

How is she acting otherwise? 

For reference our 10 day old Nubians are eating 16oz 3x a day. Sometimes more than that cause they get to sneak off of their dam too. Right now your doelings intake is less than a newborn Nigerian kid  Really hoping you can get her turned around.


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## nstone630 (Jun 7, 2017)

Goat Whisperer said:


> What is her temperature?
> 
> She really should have been fed a colostrum replacer; not a colostrum supplement
> Don't know much about the Manna pro, but some of the other replacers from TSC are soy based. You don't want that either.
> ...


I'll contact the vet in the morning. 
By what you say you newborns are eating, I'm very pessimistic. Trying not to be . But the last 48 hrs is when she wouldn't take more than a couple ounces. And now tonight, shows no interest and no energy. All she wants to do is sleep. I took her out just now, usually she wouldn't leave me alone, wanting food, tonight she peed (barely a sprinkle) and stood there. 

I'll see what the vet can to in the am. 

Up until 48 hrs ago, she was lively and almost normal, taking about 4 oZ every feeding. I know, not great, but better than nothing. 

We were unavailable and 5 hrs away when she was born. Didn't even know to expect her.  she literally fell in our lap. The colostrum is all I could do via phone to someone who barely knew what they were doing. I'm lucky she made it the first 48 hrs after being born until we could get to her. I was told they milked about 4 oZ of colostrum from the dead mom and fed her that. But when I got here, the bottle they were using was pointless, no way she got any of it  what I would have done to be here. And supplement, no clue if any or what she got. No one measured. And again, the bottle they were using, I'm surprised she lasted 2 days.


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## nstone630 (Jun 7, 2017)

This is what they used. Said the bottle and nipple, Pritchett nipple and sprite bottle, I told them to use choked her! But I wasn't able to be here to help!! I could cry. I tried to explain to them that it would work, they wouldn't hear me. 

I'm going to see if she will take anything now.


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## nstone630 (Jun 7, 2017)

This is the ingredients of the colostrum she possibly got.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 7, 2017)

I have used a puppy bottle, but it is difficult. I do remember it was a sudden thing and there wasn't much you could do - - not blaming you. 

Really hoping she can pull through this.


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## nstone630 (Jun 7, 2017)

She nudges me like she would an udder to let down when feeding. But when I try and bottle feed she absolutely refuses, multiple times.  if she is that hungry, why won't she just take the bottle. She did just fine a few days ago.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 7, 2017)

So sorry  you are going through this. I think a vet visit is a smart idea.
Poor kid. 
Cn you call the vet and see if there is something you can do or give? I expect her blood sugar may be low at this point but I would hesitate to do much until you speak with the vet.


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## babsbag (Jun 8, 2017)

Do you have a goat in milk or know someone that does? A few days ago there was someone on BYH with a calf that wouldn't take a bottle but as soon as the owner put it on her goat it went to town suckling like there was no tomorrow. It is always worth a try.

I never knew that colostrum supplement and replacer were different. That is very misleading and confusing. 

http://articles.extension.org/pages...ment_or_Replacer_-_What.27s_the_Difference.3F


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## nstone630 (Jun 8, 2017)

Thank you for the help, but no need for the vet. She passed over night. very peaceful, in her little dog bed curled up. If nothing else I just pray she wasn't suffering.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 8, 2017)

So sorry to hear you lost her


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 8, 2017)

So sorry you lost her 


Hoping you can get some answers 
Rollins lab has been very thorough and it only costs around $30 for a necropsy.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 8, 2017)




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## Hens and Roos (Jun 8, 2017)

sorry to hear


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## nstone630 (Jun 8, 2017)

Thanks  Not that any loss is easy, but this one is hard. DH cried his eyes out like a baby this morning. We had all become attached to her since she was a bottle baby and quite spoiled at that. It's hit the house hold and kids pretty hard this morning. Very somber day around our small farm. We all know loss happens, and we accept it. Miracle was more a pet than livestock (hadn't been my plan) though she slept inside, and sat with the kids to watch tv, the dogs had even accepted her as a new sister.

Thanks for the warm thoughts. This is the hard part of raising animals. Sometimes it makes me want to throw the towel in. But, I know we cannot give up.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 8, 2017)

Very sorry you lost her.  I know it's tough.
It bothers me very much to lose one.  I always say that if it ever quits bothering me then I'll get out.


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## norseofcourse (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm so sorry she didn't make it


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## Green Acres Farm (Jun 8, 2017)




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## babsbag (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm sorry, I was really hoping for good news this morning.   It is never easy but those little underdogs always steal your heart the most and that makes it even harder.


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## nstone630 (Jun 8, 2017)

Whoever said goats were easy, lied. I don't believe that until you own them and raise them can you understand just how fragile they are.


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## Latestarter (Jun 8, 2017)

So sorry for the goat and your family. Hopefully the pain will pass quickly.


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## babsbag (Jun 8, 2017)

@nstone630  Goats are not easy. They are born trying to figure out how to die and if it isn't by something health related it will be by hanging in a feeder, breaking a neck, or something else. Or sometimes they just die and you don't know why. I have gone to do chores and found does dead and even with a necropsy they couldn't tell me why.


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## nstone630 (Jun 9, 2017)

babsbag said:


> @nstone630  Goats are not easy. They are born trying to figure out how to die and if it isn't by something health related it will be by hanging in a feeder, breaking a neck, or something else. Or sometimes they just die and you don't know why. I have gone to do chores and found does dead and even with a necropsy they couldn't tell me why.



Thanks! I couldn't have said it better myself. Yet, we love them so.


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## ragdollcatlady (Jun 9, 2017)

So sorry for your loss!


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