# Misfitmorgan's Journal - That Summer Dust



## misfitmorgan

Hi All,
We live in Northern Michigan....which is just easier then saying the north eastern side of the lower peninsula of michigan which is more accurate lol Basically hold up the mitt portion of michigan and we are on the pointer finger area. The climate here is crazy esp this spring we had more snow in april then we had all year combined. A week and a half ago it was in the 70-80s and all this past week and next two weeks is low 40s and mid 50s. Crazy weather really, the lakes have a lot to do with it so they say.
 A little complicated but the "we" portion is me and my Hubby who isnt actually my hubby...because we are both still going thru our divorces but other then the miner legal side of things we live, act, and portray ourselves as husband and wife because as soon as the paperwork is done we will be...if we lived in a common law marriage state and weren't married to other people we would be common law already lmao. See complicated.
  We have a lovely 20 acre farm we got a little less then a year ago now. Ok well we think it is lovely and are gloriously in love with our Big Black Barn...but...always a but. The Owners(we lease atm) were pretty bad hoarders of everything really, on top of that they were very lazy people. So as you may imagine all the buildings were filled to the ceiling with basically junk. None of the buildings have had any upkeep in the last 12yrs and if something hit the ground that is where it stayed. We have been cleaning the property since about May last year when we were given the ok to start picking things up. It took from May until July to clean up enough to move the livestock to the barn and from July until September before we could move in. So that gives you an idea.
  The goal/dream is be full-time farming but we are not at all there yet. We both got inspired to really love and want to farm from our grandparents. Mine owned a 180acre diary cow farm that had been in the family for over 125yrs...which my Uncle made some bad choices and we lost the homestead parcel and all the land except 40acres of woods my dad bought so he could keep his hunting camp there. The new owners tore down all the barns, sheds, grainery, and equipment sheds except a newer pole building and about 1/4 of the original wood barn. The first time i say it after the new owners took over it was heart breaking. Imagine some place you spent uncountable hours as a child and young adult, someplace you loved more then anything and someone tore it all down. I was fine with someone else owning it though sad but i thought i could still go look at it atleast...no they took that too. Hubby's Grandparents owned a 120acre farm in Iowa, his father inherited the farm when grandpa wanted to retire and drank away all but 20acres of it in roughly 15yrs. So basically we both grew up with farmers in the family and hoped to become farmers ourself but ended up having to start from scratch...so we ended up on the 20acre farm we have now.
So thats basically it for now.


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## Latestarter

following!


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## misfitmorgan

So last Saturday Lucy had kids. Boy/girl twins...yay! Then Monday we found her snuggled with her kids and unfortunately she snuggled the boy between herself and the wall. He did not make it. Here is a picture of her and her doe kid the day they were born though, the doe was born first.



 
She always has babies with bands. Lucy is a mini La Mancha.

Then Sunday morning we let Alice out of the birthing stall because she had not had babies and was in there for over a week. We thought she would like to visit the herd and maybe get some sunshine and outside time. Instead she did this at about 5pm.


 
Who needs a clean dry stall...brat. Alice is a ND and had twins does!

One of our farm goals was to have rainbow eggs...so you open that farm dozen and it's goregous. After a year this is what we have.


 
Thats cement residue stuck in the bucket btw lol and 2 duck eggs in the upper left corner. I really like the egg colors we have esp the blues. Recently one of the young hens started laying a gorgeous dark green egg too.


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## Latestarter

One can generally tell a duck egg when present... they are generally covered with mud! Nice rainbow you have there. You'll need to ge a couple of turkeys and some quail to vary it up a bit more   Grats on the two ND doelings and so sorry about the loss of the buckling. Some moms are just not too observant...


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> One can generally tell a duck egg when present... they are generally covered with mud! Nice rainbow you have there. You'll need to ge a couple of turkeys and some quail to vary it up a bit more   Grats on the two ND doelings and so sorry about the loss of the buckling. Some moms are just not too observant...



Thank you!! We do have quail actually just all their eggs are in the incubator atm. Been trying to get Turkey's but we dont want commercial ones and its hard to find heritage locally. We tried hatching some from shipped egg last year, it was a flop out of 55 eggs in three shipments we got nodda. Hoping to go to the swap in May and find some poults and adult even. 

That doe in particular doesnt seem overly bright but is usually a good mom. Thank you the does are very cute. If seem the small breed we dont actually want to keep kids from always have girls and the large breds we want to hold kids back from have bucks


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## Starlight4Leah

I used to live in Michigan up until about a year and a half ago. We moved during December and January, with our horses, dogs, and cats. Sadly we had to leave behind our goats, chickens, ducks, turkeys, Texas Long Horn heifer, and my mothers horse as well as mine. Boy was it hard to leave them all, but they went to good homes, our goats went together, and the does became mommies.  our heifer also went with the goats. Texas is great, we finally have a nice house, and are where we want to be. We are currently leasing to own our house/farm. Our house is nice, we even got a guest room/pool house, inground pool, and we have around 7 barns for our livestock. Boy do those barns need cleaning out though. We have the same problem with you, the people are hoarders, we have only been able to get one barn half way cleared out for our animals, the cattle barn needs a new roof put on, and weeds pulled (it also has an attached shed/milking room.), our goat and pig barn is piled full of junk. Like I said their hoarders, it is full of boxes from church stuff, it has tires in it, hoses, you name it. The main barn that we got cleared out is full of carpet, flower petals, wood, taxidermy wood, PVC pipe, etc. Don't even get me started on the tack room though, that is a mess. The bad part is that they still treat it like a junk yard, everytime they have junk to throw out they bring it over here and dump it.  We only have until December though until the house is in our name! Until then, we will continue to clean, and just go with the flow.


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## misfitmorgan

Starlight4Leah said:


> I used to live in Michigan up until about a year and a half ago. We moved during December and January, with our horses, dogs, and cats. Sadly we had to leave behind our goats, chickens, ducks, turkeys, Texas Long Horn heifer, and my mothers horse as well as mine. Boy was it hard to leave them all, but they went to good homes, our goats went together, and the does became mommies.  our heifer also went with the goats. Texas is great, we finally have a nice house, and are where we want to be. We are currently leasing to own our house/farm. Our house is nice, we even got a guest room/pool house, inground pool, and we have around 7 barns for our livestock. Boy do those barns need cleaning out though. We have the same problem with you, the people are hoarders, we have only been able to get one barn half way cleared out for our animals, the cattle barn needs a new roof put on, and weeds pulled (it also has an attached shed/milking room.), our goat and pig barn is piled full of junk. Like I said their hoarders, it is full of boxes from church stuff, it has tires in it, hoses, you name it. The main barn that we got cleared out is full of carpet, flower petals, wood, taxidermy wood, PVC pipe, etc. Don't even get me started on the tack room though, that is a mess. The bad part is that they still treat it like a junk yard, everytime they have junk to throw out they bring it over here and dump it.  We only have until December though until the house is in our name! Until then, we will continue to clean, and just go with the flow.


Ours do the same thing but on a smaller scale..they make a mess when they are trying to "clean" stuff up. It grates on our nerves. They also won't let us throw anything away...for example. There is one corner of the front of the garage that had a piece of tin come off....several years ago....and under that hole in the roof they had a giant box and in/on/around that giant box were books. So now there is a giant pile of rotted books and when the dumpster was there we asked if they wanted us to toss them in and the wife says "No we have to go thru and see which ones we want to keep" you have no idea how hard it was to keep my jaw from hitting the floor and not look at her like a complete nut job. They are nice people they clearly just have a problem. So far 4 10yr dumpsters were filled and left and 4 full size pickup truck loads full and we have had three huge bonfires...the disappearing kinda fires. Still it looks like poop and there is stuff everywhere. The barn alone had not been cleaned for at least the last 2yrs they have animals in it. They were actually banned from owning animals on their property because of the mistreatment thru neglect. We had to bring in a mini skid steer to clear out the center area where it would fit...the rest was all done by hand. Ever try to hand clean manure/old hay/bedding that was walked on for years and is 2ft thick...it took forever.  As i said they seem decent just have some issues and dont really know much about livestock...they dove head first into cows as their first livestock and had a lot of losses. They started with 57 baby calves and by the time they were a year old they had roughly a dozen left. 

Anyhow...we are working hard on cleaning it up but we cant do any major repairs until we are in a contract to buy. So for now we just hand dig drainage ditches from the barn and work around what we have too.


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## Latestarter

I really feel for you folks... That has to be a helluva lot of work!   I'm sorry, even for a "good deal" I don't think I could rent to own/buy a place owned by a hoarder... I've watched the show enough... I admit I'm not the cleanest person in the world, and I do have some "clutter" laying around (like a pile of mail I go through maybe once a month, that sorta thing), but I'm a huge fan of trash it! I've actually considered the fact that when I'm gone, there won't be a lot of "personal" stuff for them to inherit... I just can't see the point in hanging on to stuff.


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## Starlight4Leah

misfitmorgan said:


> Ours do the same thing but on a smaller scale..they make a mess when they are trying to "clean" stuff up. It grates on our nerves. They also won't let us throw anything away...for example. There is one corner of the front of the garage that had a piece of tin come off....several years ago....and under that hole in the roof they had a giant box and in/on/around that giant box were books. So now there is a giant pile of rotted books and when the dumpster was there we asked if they wanted us to toss them in and the wife says "No we have to go thru and see which ones we want to keep" you have no idea how hard it was to keep my jaw from hitting the floor and not look at her like a complete nut job. They are nice people they clearly just have a problem. So far 4 10yr dumpsters were filled and left and 4 full size pickup truck loads full and we have had three huge bonfires...the disappearing kinda fires. Still it looks like poop and there is stuff everywhere. The barn alone had not been cleaned for at least the last 2yrs they have animals in it. They were actually banned from owning animals on their property because of the mistreatment thru neglect. We had to bring in a mini skid steer to clear out the center area where it would fit...the rest was all done by hand. Ever try to hand clean manure/old hay/bedding that was walked on for years and is 2ft thick...it took forever.  As i said they seem decent just have some issues and dont really know much about livestock...they dove head first into cows as their first livestock and had a lot of losses. They started with 57 baby calves and by the time they were a year old they had roughly a dozen left.
> 
> Anyhow...we are working hard on cleaning it up but we cant do any major repairs until we are in a contract to buy. So for now we just hand dig drainage ditches from the barn and work around what we have too.


I totally understand you. The homeowners now are nice and all, but they were/are definitely hoarders. They do have a granddaughter that is a complete brat and acts like she owns the place though . We actually told them how we have ATV's and they said that was fine and we could ride them, then one day w wouldn't go babysit their granddaughter at the movies ( they claimed we were going to hang out) and since then they will not allow us to ride our atvs now, even though we had been riding them since we moved in . There are some goods and bads about Leasing a house, but we just keep reminding ourselves that it will soon be ours and they won't be able to step foot on our property. My parents actually got into it with them, because there were two men that had trespassed onto our property (our horses and goats were put into danger) to pick up a trailer. We had no idea it was there, and when we walked out they were trying to hook up to our livestock trailer. I am 16(female) and my sister is 13. We walked out and halter end our horses and simply asked if it was their trailer because we had one stolen from us. This 6ft+ marine man had stepped up face to face to me swearing at me, threatening me, threatening to have me thrown in jail for walking out there while they were there, and a whole bunch of crap. I was so scared, amd angry because he was threatening me on my property saying I disrespected them (mind you he had been smoking and throwing his cigarettes in the grass were our animals graze, and just barely missed hitting my horse with his truck). My family and I were so angry, because the way the pasture is et up, there is a second drive and gate and if that gate gets left open, they WILL be out, so we get really nervous with everyone driving in whenever they want, so we are still learning to watch and just let it slide.


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## Mike CHS

I hope you have a contract for your lease/purchase.  I know what it's like to clean up years of somebody else's "stuff".


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> I really feel for you folks... That has to be a helluva lot of work!   I'm sorry, even for a "good deal" I don't think I could rent to own/buy a place owned by a hoarder... I've watched the show enough... I admit I'm not the cleanest person in the world, and I do have some "clutter" laying around (like a pile of mail I go through maybe once a month, that sorta thing), but I'm a huge fan of trash it! I've actually considered the fact that when I'm gone, there won't be a lot of "personal" stuff for them to inherit... I just can't see the point in hanging on to stuff.



Personally i was so not on board with it either, i like things to look nice and in order and a bit OCD lol. Honestly though it wasn't just a good deal it was a spectacular deal. The first years "rent" was us paying the property taxes which was roughly $1000 for the year...so lease rent was about $83/month. The sale price we got was also a smoking deal at 1/5 the normal market price even on the low end. So basically it was do the labor or get in debt way way over our heads and not be able to afford to farm it. There was/is a ton of work and building maintenance needed but we wouldnt be able to afford other places... we looked and the closest thing to what we have but clean and fixed up slightly starts over $150,000 

So the plan is buy this place...fix it up, we have access to all the heavy equipment we need and the skills/knowledge to fix it ourselves. Clean it all up, give everything fresh paint, then pull out the equity and build a new house with it farther back on the property. We dont need anything fancy but we want a bigger house this one is only around 700sqft and we dont wanna be right up by the road.



Starlight4Leah said:


> I totally understand you. The homeowners now are nice and all, but they were/are definitely hoarders. They do have a granddaughter that is a complete brat and acts like she owns the place though . We actually told them how we have ATV's and they said that was fine and we could ride them, then one day w wouldn't go babysit their granddaughter at the movies ( they claimed we were going to hang out) and since then they will not allow us to ride our atvs now, even though we had been riding them since we moved in . There are some goods and bads about Leasing a house, but we just keep reminding ourselves that it will soon be ours and they won't be able to step foot on our property. My parents actually got into it with them, because there were two men that had trespassed onto our property (our horses and goats were put into danger) to pick up a trailer. We had no idea it was there, and when we walked out they were trying to hook up to our livestock trailer. I am 16(female) and my sister is 13. We walked out and halter end our horses and simply asked if it was their trailer because we had one stolen from us. This 6ft+ marine man had stepped up face to face to me swearing at me, threatening me, threatening to have me thrown in jail for walking out there while they were there, and a whole bunch of crap. I was so scared, amd angry because he was threatening me on my property saying I disrespected them (mind you he had been smoking and throwing his cigarettes in the grass were our animals graze, and just barely missed hitting my horse with his truck). My family and I were so angry, because the way the pasture is et up, there is a second drive and gate and if that gate gets left open, they WILL be out, so we get really nervous with everyone driving in whenever they want, so we are still learning to watch and just let it slide.



That sucks, yeah these people dont do that kind of stuff. They are nice and their family doesnt come wandering around, they even call before they come over or if they stop by and we arnt there they just leave a note and leave. They just dont have the drive o clean the place up...so the farm looks like poo and it embarrasses me because a lot of the stuff we cant move and have to wait for them too.


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## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> I hope you have a contract for your lease/purchase.  I know what it's like to clean up years of somebody else's "stuff".



Yes we have a contract for the lease and the purchase agreement already but unless we secure financing by a certain end date it is null and void hence why we are not doing any major work.


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## misfitmorgan

I almost forgot..Missy had her kids. They are twin boys 

How come the boys are always the cutest/prettiest colors?



 
i sooooo hoped the one in the back was a girl when i saw them.


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## misfitmorgan

Roughly a week ago we lost 12 ducks to a fox overnight. So we have been thinking about getting an LGD problem so far is...we have a blue/tan Dobie who just turned a year old this month. His favorite pass time is chasing/killing/eatting rabbits, and "playing" with chickens/duck he doesnt hurt them just loves to run thru them when they are out free ranging. When we have let him in the barn or pasture the runs like a lunatic and loves to see the goats and sheep run when he is "playing" with them. Because of his behavior our goats dont like any big dogs...the little dogs they are OK with but only marginally. 

So i have a few fears about getting a dog because we barely have time to try to train the dobie, i dont know how we would train a LGD and if we introduced them as a puppy im worried the goats would beat the puppy up. I'm pretty certain we are gonna hold offf until the dobie gets trained. He is so very hard to work with though because he is soooooooo high energy. So far he knows the commands, sit, wait, stay, down, come, relax, house and go lay down....we use relax when he is acting like a lunatic. We only pet him when he is sitting or laying or being calm to try to encourage him being calm but it isnt working. He is a very playful dog and the breeder used to play with him like a lunatic..you the kind of rubbing him all upo and down and high energy so he thinks thats how he should play back im guessing. He is great with DH...calm, listens better, has manners....with me though nope. I'm a bit lost on how to train him because he does what i ask when he is in the house or paying attention...outside or in the barn it is way harder to impossible. DH wants to get a adjustable shock collar to help train him because he is learning now that "if i dont come to you i dont get in trouble" He does get a smack on the butt when he does stuff really bad (like playing on the road when he knows he isnt suppose to be on the road) which he hates but we are by no means beating him or even smacking him hard on the butt. It doesnt deter him much though. 

Not really sure what this post is about guess me just talking about being a bit frustrated and losing my ducks


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## Starlight4Leah

misfitmorgan said:


> Personally i was so not on board with it either, i like things to look nice and in order and a bit OCD lol. Honestly though it was just a good deal it was a spectacular deal. The first years "rent" was us paying the property taxes which was roughly $1000 for the year...so lease rent was about $83/month. The sale price we got was also a smoking deal at 1/5 the normal market price even on the low end. So basically it was do the labor or get in debt way way over our heads and not be able to afford to farm it. There was/is a ton of work and building maintenance needed but we wouldnt be able to afford other places... we looked and the closest thing to what we have but clean and fixed up slightly starts over $150,000
> 
> So the plan is buy this place...fix it up, we have access to all the heavy equipment we need and the skills/knowledge to fix it ourselves. Clean it all up, give everything fresh paint, then put out the equity and build a new house with it farther back on the property. We dont need anything fancy but we want a bigger house this one is only around 700sqft and we dont wanna be right up by the road.
> 
> 
> 
> That sucks, yeah these people dont do that kind of stuff. They are nice and their family doesnt come wandering around, they even call before they come over or if they stop by and we arnt there they just leave a note and leave. They just dont have the drive o clean the place up...so the farm looks like poo and it embarrasses me because a lot of the stuff we cant move and have to wait for them too.


Wow, that is a really good deal. Don't feel bad, ours looks like crap too.


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## Mike CHS

There are a bunch of us on here that started with something that was a stretch to even call it an eyesore but it usually seems to work for the better.  

Our house was so bad it wasn't considered salvagable so we got our place for the cost of the land.


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## misfitmorgan

Starlight4Leah said:


> Wow, that is a really good deal. Don't feel bad, ours looks like crap too.


 
Glad i'm not alone!! Some day it is gonna be beautiful...we really really fell in love with the barn....i will have to get some pics to post so you guys can see it.



Mike CHS said:


> There are a bunch of us on here that started with something that was a stretch to even call it an eyesore but it usually seems to work for the better.
> 
> Our house was so bad it wasn't considered salvagable so we got our place for the cost of the land.



By the bank's standards and HUD our house is not "liveable" , we have a valid occupancy permit still so legally we can live there.....but the bank won't finance us as a homestead/homeowner loan. So we have to put up more of a down payment and get a land/construction loan.


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## Starlight4Leah

misfitmorgan said:


> Glad i'm not alone!! Some day it is gonna be beautiful...we really really fell in love with the barn....i will have to get some pics to post so you guys can see it.


Ours is getting there, we are currently doing some weeding up by the house and trimming back rose bushes. We also have to wash all of the white picket fencing out front and on the sides, so that will take some time. We have to fill in a lot of holes, and burn a lot of brush, but its a work in progress.


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## misfitmorgan

We got most of the yard in good shape and everything trimmed down last year before snow hit...so that reasonable. When we got the ok to do anything on the place the grass was taller then my waist...we had to bring in our brush hog and a big tractor to get it knocked down. Then clean it all up and pick up everything and mowed most of it with the lawnmower where we knew it was clear....weed whacked the rest. Skirted all the trees, dug the grass off the front sidewalk and dug things out of the ground all over the yard. This year we have to get the lilac bush in check and trim the apple trees, powerwash the two decks and refinish them, fix the hole in the garage roof which is just nailing the tin back up and nail two peices of wall tin back on...finish building stalls in the barn, re-do the driveway....and the list goes on lmao. Driveway wont be until after we get the loan though because it is a big driveway and we  have to dig it back out before we put down limestone so it will coat a good chunk of money.

So far all of our stalls are build out of slab wood and rough cut one by, then we use nice new looking pallets for the gate which works awesome. Each stall had "solid" wood to about 4.5ft and is 8ftX10ft so pretty big stall...we have our 4 piglets in one stall and our friends in another stall. The orginal stall we made is now the grain room/medicine room/ everything the animals shouldnt have access too lol. So now to finish off that whole wall of stalls we just have to do the fronts on two stalls and then we will have 4 stalls we can use which will be sooooo nice. Those two stalls are getting double gates on the face wall and a setup for temporary walls down the middle so we will have 4 kidding stalls. Right now the new moms are in the grain stall...not ideal but they are short so they cant reach much lol.


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## misfitmorgan

I believe we have decided to sell all of our non-standard size goats. Of the 3 does who just had kids...all 3 had twins which was really nice and then each of them lost a kid 

Lucy the mini La Mancha lost the boy of her boy/girl set
Alice the nigerian dwarf lost a girl of her girl set
and as of yesterday Missy the mini La Mancha lost one of her boys and the other was almost dead.

We dont seem to have as many problems with the larger goats and a lot less losses. So i think we are going to sell them as soon as test results come back which should be anytime now.

We will end up selling Lucy, Alice, Missy, Bella(Nd/Alpine), and Moon(mini nubian buck) along with their kids.

I love the little goats  but we really dont have a use for them as we are a diary goat farm and they will not milk, even if they would oh my they have the tiniest teats ever i have tried milking them and i can only use my pointer finger and thumb.


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## Starlight4Leah

misfitmorgan said:


> I believe we have decided to sell all of our non-standard size goats. Of the 3 does who just had kids...all 3 had twins which was really nice and then each of them lost a kid
> 
> Lucy the mini La Mancha lost the boy of her boy/girl set
> Alice the nigerian dwarf lost a girl of her girl set
> and as of yesterday Missy the mini La Mancha lost one of her boys and the other was almost dead.
> 
> We dont seem to have as many problems with the larger goats and a lot less losses. So i think we are going to sell them as soon as test results come back which should be anytime now.
> 
> We will end up selling Lucy, Alice, Missy, Bella(Nd/Alpine), and Moon(mini nubian buck) along with their kids.
> 
> I love the little goats  but we really dont have a use for them as we are a diary goat farm and they will not milk, even if they would oh my they have the tiniest teats ever i have tried milking them and i can only use my pointer finger and thumb.


I am so sorry.  Its so hard to sell them, because they become so much apart of the family. I am sorry for your losses.  If you lived in Texas, I would take them for you, but traveling all the way to Michigan is much too far for goats. I hope things start to go well for you.


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## misfitmorgan

Starlight4Leah said:


> I am so sorry.  Its so hard to sell them, because they become so much apart of the family. I am sorry for your losses.  If you lived in Texas, I would take them for you, but traveling all the way to Michigan is much too far for goats. I hope things start to go well for you.



They really are and am still honestly debating i love the little brats. Also goats are not selling for beans up here atm. I'm not sure what is causing it because last year goats were going like hotcakes and this year cant seem to sell anything much. There is no way i will take them to auction or the Eastern Market, if i had a group of meat goats to go i would consider it but not pet goats.


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## misfitmorgan

Everyone seems to be doing good. We got the new experimental Doe and her buck kid. They seem to be nice goats though mom is a little standoff-ish. The lab called and let me know  i sent my samples on the wrong day for the CAE/Johnes testing so i have to send in new samples for that part  Well truthfully they called me like a week and a half ago but i am really bad at checking my voicemails. Will have to try again, i thought sending them for Saturday delivery would be fine but from the voicemail i gather they are suppose to be sent for Tuesday delivery i think, im going to have to call and verify cause the message was a little confusing. I didnt see any specific days listed for those tests but it seems they are done wednesday and thursday.
I never did get fecals collected yet...i know bad me.

I did go to the dentist and get 7 teeth pulled and DH and i have been very sick all in the past week and a half. So basically nothing is getting done more then feeding chores. I'm pretty sure if the new doe wasnt on his way home from work we wouldnt have even picked her up. Everyone got CDT vacinated the 24th so boosters coming the 22nd. 

We picked up some goat feed from the mill to see how it is gonna do, it has no copper listed in the ingredients so the sheep have been getting it as well. I like noble goat but we can get a 100lb of the Goat feed from the mill for $14 so less then half the price. I also noticed the noble goat pellets were giving my does unhealthy looking yellow non-pelleted poop. Not sure that was a good thing.

We have to get the barn cleaned this weekend it is a mess with us both being sick/down. DH cleaned the pigs pen yesterday and our friend came over and cleaned his pigs pen on Sunday. Leaves the lambs stall, the grainery stall to be cleaned and the main floor. The main floor is going to be the wrost because the entire far end is wet so it is gonna be super heavy. We hoped it was going to dry out a bit but the rain we had over the weekend destroyed that hope.

So far we hatched out about half a dozen baby ducks from eggs we had in the bator before the ducks were killed by the fox. Last night a chick hatched from the bator as well, not sure what else DH has in there. THe bigger duckies were moved out into the barn in a pen in the grainery since the over night warmed up to the 30s. They seem to be handling the change well and like the extra space.


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## Latestarter

Sorry you guys are under the weather... Really sucks when you're so down it's difficult to get moving to do the basic feeding, let alone all the other stuff that always seems to need doing. Being a loner, I can completely identify! If I don't do it, it doesn't get done.  Only aspect that makes me wish I still had some kids at home  Nah... not really, I love them all, just no longer their time to be with me. They have their own lives to live now  Hope you get feeling better quickly and that the work load doesn't double in the mean time!


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Sorry you guys are under the weather... Really sucks when you're so down it's difficult to get moving to do the basic feeding, let alone all the other stuff that always seems to need doing. Being a loner, I can completely identify! If I don't do it, it doesn't get done.  Only aspect that makes me wish I still had some kids at home  Nah... not really, I love them all, just no longer their time to be with me. They have their own lives to live now  Hope you get feeling better quickly and that the work load doesn't double in the mean time!


We often joke about renting my siblings kids to get some work done around the farm lol. 

On the plus side DH and two of his friends got the new goat pasture up over the weekend which is awesome. Next is the new sheep pasture, then the pigs pasture. We have been putting those last two off becase we have to building them some loafing sheds and we dont wanna build anything permanent until we buy the place as well as we have no truck and no trailer so gettings wood products to the farm to build anything is hard to do....so far we have been borrwing or renting trailers or borrowing trucks but you can only do that for so long.


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## Latestarter

Glad things are coming along and that you folks are feeling better. I completely understand the not wanting to do too many capital improvements to land you don't own. I could suggest making "portable" run in shelters so that they aren't "attached" to the land and therefore would NOT become the owner's property if the purchase falls through and you move. 

You are farmers without a truck or trailer(s)??  I can't imagine...  I'd have to guess/agree that borrowing or renting all the time wouldn't be the best situation... I've driven sedans with lumber sticking out the passenger window, and with plywood tied to the roof... Not the best way to do things.


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## Sisters On The Farm

Sorry about the cold weather. We live in N.Y. Right now it is 79.1 degrees outside. We are south of Amsterdam so hope you have a happy summer. Therese


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Glad things are coming along and that you folks are feeling better. I completely understand the not wanting to do too many capital improvements to land you don't own. I could suggest making "portable" run in shelters so that they aren't "attached" to the land and therefore would NOT become the owner's property if the purchase falls through and you move.
> 
> You are farmers without a truck or trailer(s)??  I can't imagine...  I'd have to guess/agree that borrowing or renting all the time wouldn't be the best situation... I've driven sedans with lumber sticking out the passenger window, and with plywood tied to the roof... Not the best way to do things.



Oh trust me..we are very creative. We have a trailblazer and it has been almost utterly destroyed hauling hay wagons, tractors, implements, live stock...etc. We also haul smaller livestock inside of it...lambs, goats, goat kids, pigs, chickens, ducks, rabbits, etc. We hauled hay and straw tied to the roof rack definitely exceeding the 200lb weight limit...there is something erie about hearing the roof of up car cracking and popping....if there was a frames up there i would have been very concerned. We haul wood on the roof rack and sticking out the back. We do what we have to but some things you just cant like sheets of OSB doesnt work....we tried until the cop stopped us lol. All the cops know us and let us get away with a lot but the OSB sheets was a bit to ridiculous the cop told us. He escorted us home at a whooping 25mph 

Of course he also escorted us when we illegally moved a small addition to the new place...and informed us if he wanted to be a jerk we were looking at $10,000 worth of fines/tickets...luckily he helped us get it home and no tickets. Since those two incidents we try not to push the limits to far.




Sisters On The Farm said:


> Sorry about the cold weather. We live in N.Y. Right now it is 79.1 degrees outside. We are south of Amsterdam so hope you have a happy summer. Therese



Oh it finally warmed up..then i complained about that cause over the weekend it was so humid you felt wet just sitting there and doing any work you sweated buckets. Horrible days to clean the barn but when it needs done it needs done. 


Also I got the fecal samples sent out...no blood done yet


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## misfitmorgan

As i posted in my other thread on Ella, she is recovering nicely. Turned out to be coccidiosis which i treated for, she has brand new baby hair growing in all over the bald spots, now we just need to get the weight back on her. I'm not sure what caused the adult goat to be overloaded with Coccdi but apparently it was an issue. Between the treatment and the copper the herd is looking good.

Unfortunately last night our 4yr old Alpine buck charged me for the first time ever and..figured out he is stronger then me when i am off balance and almost stronger then me when i have good balance. We will be attempting to remove his horns with bands as well as building him how own pasture and seperating him from all other bucks. He killed one of our 1.5yr old mini mancha bucks about a week ago. Then a few days ago i saw him hook and toss one of the F-3 mini mancha does. So he definately needs to be seperate from all other goats atleast until his horns come off. This is the first time we have ever had a problem with a horned goat, the goat buck he killed was also horned but to small to fight back enough i guess.


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## Latestarter

That's not good  Sorry you lost another younger buck in the process.


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## Goat Whisperer

Sorry, but I don't think that buck would be alive if he were here


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## misfitmorgan

If we have had other problems before these couple recent events im sure he would not be here seeing as this is new behavior we are unsure what we will be doing yet. To be clear he charged me and i grabbed his horns, he walked me back about 8 ft before i got my balance to be able to stop him. He did not actually ram me like they do to each other but still it was unacceptable behavior. 

We do not tolerant animals that go after humans/other animals much. Roosters, goats, sheep, etc they all go to freezer camp or homes without other animals and with a companion they get along with. We actually had people visit the farm two weeks ago and they asked us after seeing our 10 roosters if they attacked us and we laughed and said nope they dont even attempt it...we got rid of the ones that even thought about it. 

Most animals we have are nice and friendly enough you can pet them even the roosters so Ruger's recent behavior is quite shocking esp since he loves people. He was a bottle kid, raised by other people and they let him rub his head all over them and play the head shove game. Anyone notice any of their bucks acting much more dominant/aggressive around 4yrs old?


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## misfitmorgan

Ok so the herd is growing...i need to find time to take pics so you guys can see them. We have so far.

*Does*
Ella - Alpine
Cassiopia - Alpine(Ellas daughter)
Lyla - Alpine(registered but i dont have the papers)
May -Saanen/Nubian(registered experimental)
Alice - ND
Bella - Mini Alpine
Lucy - Mini La Mancha
Missy - Mini La Mancha
Phoebe - 75% Boer 25% Nubian
*Jr Does*
Ghost - Saaneen/Togg (looks Saanen with waddles)
Ivy - Togg
Mocha - Togg
Hazel - Togg
Alice's doe kid
Lucy's doe kid
*Bucks*
Ruger - Alpine
Moon - Mini Nubian
*Buck Kids*
May's buck kid - 50% Sable 25% Saanen 25% Nubian(Ruger's replacement possibly)
Missy's buck kid

The kids without names are ones we are not likely to keep or we just havnt thought of a name for yet. I would like to sell Lucy with her doe, Missy with her buck, Alice with her doe, Bella, and Moon. Basically all the mini breeds...i love them but i feel they get unfairly picked on and i cant use them for milking. That would bring us down to 11 full size goats and allow us to possibly get a registered alpine buck and/or expand our pasture more.

We would love to get a seperate pasture put up for the sheep, they also get picked on because they wont defend themselves and just get pushed around as well as a separate pasture for the pigs.

Speaking of pigs today DH is going to pick up another Gilt today, that gives us 5 gilts on the farm, 1 boar and 1 barrow. Which should set us up for the first litters this fall in october and have the pigs cycle back in time for 4-h litters in march with a 30 day break to recondition them. Long term we plan on having them breed roughly twice a year with a minimum of a 45 day break between. When i say break i mean not pregnant or nursing.

There is a farmer who lives locally and claims he gives his pigs a 30 day break between breeding but what he means is he lets the piglets nurse for 30 days before breeding mom back and pulling piglets. That never really sounded like much of a break to me and we are not aiming for a high production model just sustainability.

4-h piglets here go for $100-300 each...feeder piglets go for $75-125 each...butcher pigs $2-5/lb usually $2/3 live weight and $4/5 hang weight so if you go with the lower end and figure a 200lb pig at $2/lb live thats $400 each. So there is no reason you cant use a slower production model and sustain the breeding/butcher pigs.

If litters come out on the small side we should have at least 25piglets(likely 40piglets) and if we had to hurry up and get cash to pay feed or whatnot and we sold them at cut rates of $60 each thats $1,500. Given all that info i can not carry on a conversation with the local small pig farmers who tell me you cant make money off pigs without burning them out cause its a lie. I will admit if you are producing 100s of head and shipping them off to the packing plant on trucks then no your not gonna make these kind of numbers but for home grown farm raised pork...you will.

Ok i have rambled enough lol. This is the kind of thing i normally do in my brain.


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## misfitmorgan

We made the decision to sell the mini goats. I listed them wednesday and so far Alice, Bella, Alice's Daughter, Missy's Buck, Lucy's Daughter, and Moon have all sold and went to their new homes except Moon he is on hold with a deposit until the new owners are ready. We have my two favorite mini's Lucy and Missy Left to sell still. F2 and F3 mini manchas in milk. We started milking them after their kids left at almost 2 months lactation without being milked by us until now this season they are both giving around a quart per milking.

We also moved May's buck boy whom we have named Tyrion into the kid stall so he could wean off as he is past due at almost 3 months old. May has started being milked, at almost 3 months fresh on her FF she is giving us almost 2 quarts i have high hopes for her. Her mother daisy gave a gallon as day. 

Tyrion will replace Ruger as our buck. Tyrion is a polled Saaneen/Sable on his Sire's side and Saanen/Nubian on his mother's side. Sadly he can not be registered as his father's papers were never sent in. He however is loaded on polled genetics, he himself is polled, his father, grandfather, and maternal grandmother were all polled. He comes from some good milk lines.
We also renamed Ghost to Casper...Ghost just wasnt fitting her.

We mowed, raked, and baled part of the 8 acre field by our house it made gorgeous hay, we only got 90 square bales though. Tuesday the rest of that field will be cut, along with 10 acres across the road from our house. The field by our house will be plowed, spread with manure and then plowed again, and spreads with alfalfa seed at 5lbs per acre this fall. The field is to acidic and the root mat is to thick so we will be correcting both plowing and applying a base(undecided which base yet) Depending on how second cut looks we may re-seed some other grasses as well, the field has not had anything done to it aside from being cut in atleast 15yrs so it is way past due and is struggling to produce.

The guy we partnered with to do hay this year was amazed at the hay we got off our crappy field. He said "That is some of the most goregous looking hay i've ever seen" we laughed and said yes it is really nice. He stood there looking at the field and scratching his head for a minute before asking " how did you get it like that?" That part is easy cut it when it is ripe not when you can the most tonnage off it. Hay always tells you when it is ready, most farmers just ignore it. Personally i dont want all that over ripe stemmy crap in my hay and i dont know many who would.

We are down to 13 goats from 19, hopefully that means the new pasture they are getting this week will last longer then 9 days, it will also give the one their currently on some time to grow back so we can rotate. 

I'm hoping to get the goats shaved this week, it has been in the 80s/90s this week and they are all miserable. They just lay in barn on the concrete, with no one touching anyone else and breath hard. We go in around 11am-noon and spray down the center concrete  in front of the doors so it makes a swamp cooler effect for them, it does help lower the temp and make it feel cooler.


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## misfitmorgan

Lucy and Missy are still with us and ive decided to dry them off. With White May in milk and producing so much it just isnt worth it to spend the time to milk them. Missy has a very nice udder with nice sized teats...problem is it is very fleshy and only produces maybe 2 cups of milk. Lucy has a very nice udder with nice thinner walls so she produces almost a quart...problem is her teats are tiny like smaller then my pinkie finger. She honestly looks like how an FF before having the kids udder would...and this is her 3rd kidding now. I'm sure if i bred her to a buck whose dam had nice teat size she would make great kids but i dont want to breed mini's. I lowered their price down to $100 each or $150 for both...so $75 for a mini mancha seems reasonable shall see if anyone takes them.


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## Ferguson K

You've been busy!  Just now getting caught up. 

I feel you on the growing herd.


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## misfitmorgan

Ferguson K said:


> You've been busy!  Just now getting caught up.
> 
> I feel you on the growing herd.



Hopefully mine will stop growing for a bit im trying to shrink it but DH is resisting it. We have a julianna Boar i tried to sell but he made me say we wanted $375 for him(i would have took $200 easily) so the people said they couldnt afford him atm  I also want to sell Ruger and he is adamant that no it wont happen.

I would like to get rid of 
Mr Pig(mini boar)
Ruger(Alpine Buck)
Trick(naughty horse)
All Pigeons
Lucy
Missy

He wont budge on those first 4 though


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## misfitmorgan

Well i have some good news and some bad news.... i got 3 goats shaved, but i only got a pic of one lol. My camera was dead and my phone was very nearly dead, fully dead by the time i finished the second goat.

Here is May(Lyla) with her new haircut. Did i do a totally horrid job she is the first goat i ever shaved..definitely got faster on the second and third.




 


She is a bit bloated lol...ok a lot 

i didnt clip anyones head or udder. This is the first time they have ever been clipped i think and i just tested them to the deck stairs railing so i think they did really well tolerating everything but the udder(halter was in the way for the head).

I will say Alpines are harder to do because of the double coat...the mini Mancha was supper easy and quick like 10 minutes lol. May(Lyla), Cassiopia and Lucy all got haircuts. Today hopefully will be Ruger, White May, and Missy...and pictures lol.


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## misfitmorgan

No shaving goats yesterday it was miserably hot and i felt bad for them but i think it would have been to much stress in the heat. Was only 84F here yesterday but 87% humidity


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## misfitmorgan

No further shaving progress....which i am sure the goats are not happy about as a heat wave has hit and will be here for the next 3 days mid to upper 90s and high humidity.

On a better note only roughly 3 more acres of first cut hay to get put up....and 3 wagons full of hay to go in the loft. DH has been doing 99% of the hay this year which i am thankful for because it kills me, not to say it isnt hard on him too. We went and talked to FSA yesterday about loan options things look good there but we have a lot of paperwork to do and we need to make up a quite detailed farm plan as well as source places to get anything we want included in the loan such as livestock, tractors, buildings, etc..

We want to open a diary but i talked to a lady yesterday who co-op sells goat milk and from the info she gave me we wouldnt really feasibly be able too...so we are still looking but considering other options as well such as wholesaling milk finished pigs to restaurants, and doing value added dairy products also wholesaled to restaurants and stores. So we shall see how that goes, more things added to the already insanely long to do list.


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## misfitmorgan

So.....i got pictures! I have a lot more on my camera that i got last night these ones are just off my phone.

Firstly Issac Bitten...watching the livestock.





Mr Pig our mini Boar giving me the stink eye




Moon our Mini Nigerian Buck and Ruger our Alpine Buck




A Very Prego May #1




and a Slightly less prego White May




Missy Mini Mancha




Lucy Mini Mancha (Missy's daughter)




Ella




Honey...Suffolk Ewe very sweet girl




Some of our replacement hens, just started laying


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## misfitmorgan

and one for extra fun
"Mom...whatca doin?"


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## misfitmorgan

In other news...

We got more of the yard/farm cleaned up...still a wreck but its comming along. Not white May was in light labor last night so we may have kids when i get home not sure, course it could be anytime from today until 3 weeks from now with my goats. 

Still need to get a buck pasture and a sheep pasture put up.

Working on our loan paperwork. The loan should include everything to put up the property line fencing, at least 3 more pastures, fence the garden, and around the house. I will see if i can grab a google maps picture of the farm and lay out the fencing how we want to do it.


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## misfitmorgan

No kids yet....


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## misfitmorgan

Ok so this is our hopeful fencing plan.

Pink square - house
Orange is the perimeter fence

1 - garden/fall pig pasture
2 - goat/sheep pasture
3 - goat/sheep pasture
4 - goat/sheep pasture
5 - pig pasture
6 - horse pasture
7 - late summer/fall pasture (approx 12 acres)

The black lines are gates
The blue/purple squares are shelters
The red square by the barn is our dry lot
The orchard is also in the garden and will be fenced off for Sebastol Geese
The chicken coop and yard is actually between pen 5 and pen 6
We might make a separate area for the bucks
There is a circle driveway in the front anf then another driveway that goes to the back of the property between pen 5 and 6.

We also plan to add a small pen in the back near the creek for the ducks.

There are pretty much no trees hence why i wanna plant 1-2 willow trees in each pen.


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## misfitmorgan

For comparison
The first pic is May or June 2015 right after the property owners let us start doing stuff on the place outside only. You can see the garden area had just been plowed and we had got the grass cut and the dry lot up.



This second pic is July or August 2015, you can see we have the second garden plot plowed, the dry lot is done, the barn has been cleaned out. In July we were allowed to move into the house after having painted everything, ripped out carpet, laying new sub-floor, installing new plumbing, and laying new flooring. Half way thru the house reno vandals got on the property and broke several windows, two toilets, the bathroom mirror, our storm windows that were in the garage, a few windows in out buildings, and punched holes thru the drywall in the addition we brought over that was going to be a dining room and a guest room. Pretty much made me sit down and cry because we had done so much work and it set us back farther. So we replaced the toilet, and put in some new to us windows, cleaned the mess, scraped the addition idea for the moment, and got on with life. The white building behind the barn is the chicken coop right before we moved the chickens. We still had to put up the fencing for the chicken yard after this picture. The yard and around the buildings looks more messy but that is us tossing stuff out of the buildings to be hauled off.



i almost forgot the three piles to the left of the chicken coop. The coop is a trailer house, it is a 2 bedroom 1 bath with a living room and kitche/dining so it is not real small...so for size reference. The farthest left pile is what we cleaned out of the barn at that point..in manure, that pile is also approx 5-6ft tall in this pic. We still had not done anything but the center isle and the gutters at this point. The barn had so much manure in it that we thought it was a short barn because i could touch the ceilings...at my whopping 5'1"...DH at 6' 4" couldnt walk without ducking in most areas. We also didnt know until we started cleaning, that there is a cement ramp outside, cement drive tru floor, the center floor is lower then the rest of the barn floor and there are feed gutters as well.
Pile number two which is the middle pile, is a pile of round bales that were left outside for 4+yrs...DH had a dozer at the farm for a bit as we had to clean out the tiling cause someone had filled it with manure from the barn and nothing was draining. We literally had 3-4 inches of standing water on top of the hill by the buildings. The place is set up so the water from the hill drains thru and under the barn and out the end of it to the tiling to the ditches to the back of the property....the owners didnt understand this and crammed the gutter drains with rocks, bricks, and feedsacks. When we got it all unplugged it ran water out from under the barn and top of the hill for 2 days.
Pile 3 is buried garbage...household garbage. DH found it when he was leveling the spot for the chicken coop.


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## misfitmorgan

So DH came home with 1 of 2 new sheep we have from a friend of our's. Not sure what breed they are but they are all white and a fine wool breed and approx the same size as our suffolk ewes. Their fleece stops short on their legs, like its only on their barrel and upper legs. I will try to get a pic and maybe someone can help figure out breed. The one at the farm has an open face/ears with a small mohawk over her poll.

I think they are polypay but not sure. Definitely have some crazy crimp to the fleece.


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## misfitmorgan

Not White May..finally had her kids yesterday. One came out Cou Blanc looking and the other a broken of some fashion....and of course both are boys.

Also found out her bag is blown which we suspected. One side has a mass and doesnt work at all and the other side the Annular Ring is gone..no milk leaking but doesnt look pretty and oh my does she produce the milk. Even with only one side working i have no concern at all that the kids will go hungry.


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## misfitmorgan

Not white may is 6 yrs old and this is her 5th set of kids as far as we know. Her udder is a shame because she never dries off in her good side and makes a lot of milk she is feeding the twins off one side only and they seem to be doing well though one looks a touch thin they are doing ok. We plan to give vitamin B shots and CDT today as well as give some lamb + kid to the one thinner kid. If she cant keep up with the two of them we will take one off to bottle feed it. She is an excellent mother though i have not seen a better mamma goat. She takes them on tours outside and is always by them when they are awake and checks on them when they are asleep. At night she lays down by them and they curl up to her. Normally she is  grain hog but if one of the kids is nursing she will stand there and wait even when we put out grain so we have been waiting until the kids are finished and then giving her some grain to help her milk production. Yesterday the sheep were to close to her kids and she ran them off a good 15ft away from her kids so she is protecting them well though she doesnt mind one of the other alpine does being by her kids and the other doe doesnt mind being by the kids.

Ella is finally looking like a reasonably weighted goat which we are very happy about.


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## misfitmorgan

May's kids are doing alright a bit thin but growing like weeds. They have been eating hay and grain and drinking water. I'm also giving them lamb and kid every other day as well as probios once a week to make sure their belly's stay working good with the low amount of milk they are getting. I think they are now at the size they are gonna need to be supplemented with formula she just cant produce enough milk for them off one side as they grow. We will breed her again and hope for a doe, if/when she has a doe we will retire her from breeding.

Our white face (suspect polypay) ewe had an all black boy lamb on Friday afternoon. He is so adorable, his daddy is a bond ram that we used to own and sold to a friend of ours. He will leave the herd when he is old enough so we dont end up with our suffolk bred to the half bond half polypay ram. The white face is being an excellent mother though which is am happy about.

So that make 3 boys..grrrr 

We have had the worst luck having does/ewes. We cant keep the boys and that sems to be all we ever have anymore unless they are mini's they have does all the time. Darn mini's sucking up my doe quota! Our replacement buck is not going to be quite old enough to bred for this round of breedings so Ruger gets his final turn at the girls and oh my he stinks so bad lol. Normally i dont mind billy scent but he is going on 5yrs old now  and wow it is potent, all the does smell like him, the entire barn smells like him. The does are all going into heat and he is in full rut so something weird is going on.


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## misfitmorgan

Kids and lambs are doing well still. Ruger is still smelling the joint up 

Trick our horse left Sunday morning for his new home. We simply didnt have time to do anything much with him as much as we wanted too and it wasnt fair to him. DH finally agreed that we can get rid of Ruger after he does his job as he is starting to try to head ram everyone and everything and of course cant keep him in the pasture.


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## misfitmorgan

So last night DH came home and told me he got a called from his Ex-wife. They are selling the farm property he was working before the divorce because it is "to much for them to handle" which is a whole nother irony filled story anyhow. The Ex told him to come get the livestock  and he is planning too  I'm so annoyed with the entire situation because we have no where to put them. The livestock there includes some odd number of mixed breed mutt sheep that are small like icelandic crosses or something...a mixed breed Ram and two fixed male Llama's. None of the livestock is at all people friendly not even a little bit. None of the animals have been sheared in over 3yrs or wormed or vaccinated or anything. Basically they were feed nothing but junk hay, on a burned off pasture. Yes i feel bad for them i always have but i literally have no place i can put them except in the barn with the other livestock....which would be fine but we have all Suffolk sheep including two young suffolk rams and our two polypay ewe's. I dont want a mutt ram breeding them or trying to kill my young suffolk rams i paid a lot of money for them. Our barn is not set up for Llamas either. I really dont know what to do with these animals and i wish he had just told her no or at least told her sure but we get your fencing to then.


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## frustratedearthmother

Straight to the nearest auction barn...


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## misfitmorgan

He said to take the ram to the auction barn but the closest is over 2hrs away and i doubt he would bring more then $25 being a mutt and 4yrs old.


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## norseofcourse

Yikes that's such a tough situation       You don't want to endanger your own animals, but you feel bad for those animals who are in a bad situation through no fault of their own...

It sure would be nice if they'd give you all the fencing/equipment they have, as well.  You have any neighbors with property that could help you house them temporarily till you can fix something up for them, or arrange to sell them or find them other homes?  Good luck...


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## misfitmorgan

I know like i said i feel bad for the animals but i just dont know what to do with them. I only have 2 neighbors with any kind of fencing up and they both have horses already. We have 20 acres we just dont have any other shelter besides a barn and we are not at this moment in a position to build anymore before winter. i can deal with the llama's and the sheep all except the ram as long as we could stall him and sell him quickly it might be alright. I just refuse to have him in a stall for an extended period of time. I also dont know if they have any other animals there who we are going to be getting or not, i dont even know how many sheep there are. I'm not to worried on feed as we have tons of hay, 3-4 times the amount we need for our current animals but grain is gonna be a little costly. 

I've never tried to hold down a llama to trim their feet that is gonna be interesting. I think we are going to have to make a shearing table because i dont know how else they are going to get sheared. None of them like people not that they are mean to people just pretty much feral. The one bright spot is i know they dont have any diseases, so there is that and they are clearly hardly for making it 3+yrs without being wormed at all or sheared. I'm not even sure if i can give them wormer, i know i have heard about ivermectin causing worms to detach to fast and internal bleeding. I'm going to have to get my awful vet to do a farm visit and check them out


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## misfitmorgan

Joy just found out i was wrong.....about the llama's. One is a male and one is a female and neither are fixed....they have not had a cria in 3yrs. I dont know whether that is due to poor nutrition or to much fleece to mate or what.


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## Bruce

I've been researching shearing alpacas and it seems the most common way by far is to attach ropes to their feet and stretch them out on the ground using pulleys and jam cleats. Don't know but I ASSUME llamas can be sheared the same way. And while they are down you can do their feet (as seen in a few of the videos).

If you live where there are white tailed deer, you need to give the camelids Ivermectin every 30-45 days, at least during the times of year the snails (meningeal worm's intermediate host) can be alive on the grasses the animals might eat. So no real concern about it causing a huge drop of internal roundworms since they wouldn't have the chance to get to that state.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I've been researching shearing alpacas and it seems the most common way by far is to attach ropes to their feet and stretch them out on the ground using pulleys and jam cleats. Don't know but I ASSUME llamas can be sheared the same way. And while they are down you can do their feet (as seen in a few of the videos).
> 
> If you live where there are white tailed deer, you need to give the camelids Ivermectin every 30-45 days, at least during the times of year the snails (meningeal worm's intermediate host) can be alive on the grasses the animals might eat. So no real concern about it causing a huge drop of internal roundworms since they wouldn't have the chance to get to that state.



Good to know, thanks much for the info.

We went and looked at the livestock she wants us to take....it turns out it is two rams and the two Llama's 

They are convinced they can sell the 8 mixed breed ewes for big bucks...so convinced they dont have any hay put up for winter. 

We looked closer at the Llama's and they are in a sorry sorry state...feed wise they are fine from what we can tell but their fleece is full of burrs and all mated up and their toenails are 3-4inches long so they can no longer walk normally and i hope their feet are not permanently damaged from it. Found out the male is 5 yrs old and the female is 6yrs old so she may be bred right now. They should be getting moved to our property today and both rams will go for sale or to the auction barn asap.


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## Baymule

Hoping you can tame down the llamas and get them in better shape. Maybe they will make good guardians for your other sheep and goats.

Reading about your dog, he should NEVER have access to your livestock, unless you have him on a leash. His "playing" with the livestock is a huge NONO and should not be allowed. Don't mean to sound harsh, but you have to get some control over the situation. He is a beautiful dog, BTW and I love Dobies. Keep him in the yard, if you have one and only allow him to go with you when he is on a leash. When you get a LGD, he should not be allowed in the LGD's working area. I let my Great Pyrenees out to play with our yard/house dogs, but they have to respect his working area and they are not allowed in.


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## Bruce

You might want to see if you can find someone to cut the llamas toenails. It doesn't look particularly difficult (from the videos) when they are kept up but if they are that long, they are probably curling way out and you are right, I believe that can cause serious foot issues. I don't know if you can go straight to "the right length" or if, like dog's nails, the quick will be a certain distance from the end of the nail and you have to cut back to ALMOST that point, then let the quick recede before you do it again. 

I think it is very common for people that shear to also do nails and teeth. Teeth are important too! They can't be sheared now, they won't have enough hair for the winter. I suppose they could be "long sheared" (I just made up that term so don't go Google it  ) to cut out some of the burrs. You can learn by watching them 

Good luck!


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## misfitmorgan

The Llamas and both Rams arrived last night. Serious feet trimming and possible teeth trimming needed.



Baymule said:


> Hoping you can tame down the llamas and get them in better shape. Maybe they will make good guardians for your other sheep and goats.
> 
> Reading about your dog, he should NEVER have access to your livestock, unless you have him on a leash. His "playing" with the livestock is a huge NONO and should not be allowed. Don't mean to sound harsh, but you have to get some control over the situation. He is a beautiful dog, BTW and I love Dobies. Keep him in the yard, if you have one and only allow him to go with you when he is on a leash. When you get a LGD, he should not be allowed in the LGD's working area. I let my Great Pyrenees out to play with our yard/house dogs, but they have to respect his working area and they are not allowed in.



They are good guardians and watched their old flock.

As far as my dog Issac goes he is never on a leash. He has a shock collar that we use the beep and vibration options on only and he listens well with it. His livestock play has toned down, now when he goes in the barn with us he mostly watches. I also could not always have him on a leash when he is around the livestock because he is learning to herd them. He is a unique dog, he used to harass the livestock and chase them around but he has stopped mostly now, except when Mr pig is out in the yard in the barn and the pastures he doesnt do it anymore. He has also never chased the kids/lambs he is very gentle with them, even in the barn/pasture he never chased them. Last winter we had two tiny mini mancha kids and a lamb living in the house for 2-3 months and never had a problem, he used to lay on the floor and they would curl up to him and snuggle in. His biggest problem is just a lot of energy and no playmate...so this weekend he is going to meet a doberdoodle who hopefully will become his playmate.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> You might want to see if you can find someone to cut the llamas toenails. It doesn't look particularly difficult (from the videos) when they are kept up but if they are that long, they are probably curling way out and you are right, I believe that can cause serious foot issues. I don't know if you can go straight to "the right length" or if, like dog's nails, the quick will be a certain distance from the end of the nail and you have to cut back to ALMOST that point, then let the quick recede before you do it again.
> 
> I think it is very common for people that shear to also do nails and teeth. Teeth are important too! They can't be sheared now, they won't have enough hair for the winter. I suppose they could be "long sheared" (I just made up that term so don't go Google it  ) to cut out some of the burrs. You can learn by watching them
> 
> Good luck!



We are pretty experienced with cutting down way overgrown hooves on goats and sheep like to the point of no longer being able to walk and just going around on their knees for a couple years. WE corected those and instructed the owner in PT and the goats are all on their feet again. We also did/do corrective trimming so the goats/sheep can stand properly. So im hoping those skills will help put the Llamas feet back together from what ive seen they are more like human nails then dog nails...but im sure i will find out lol. I do believe their teeth need to be trimmed as their lips dont seem to close all the way....that will be a new and interesting task. For shearing we do our own shearing and shear for other people. The made up "long shearing" that is a real thing  least for us. We long shear sheep for people a lot and when we get new sheep who have not been sheared in a few years and we are concerned about their health but its to close to winter to fully shear them. We have also done where we shave off just the barrel and hind end and then blanket them. We were thinking about doing a sort of longer version of a lion cut and cleaning up their butts...then buy Llama coats if we have too. Also after getting our hands on the female Llama i think she is carrying a cria and in the later stages of it too or she is fat in a very odd way...just in the belly area.


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## frustratedearthmother

Hope you can get it all taken care of.  Before and after pics would be awesome!


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## Bruce

You are all set then! I think goat and llama hoofs are pretty similar. Since you have experience correcting bad goat feet before, likely the only challenge will be getting the llamas to trust you. I don't know about goats but as I read it camelids aren't at all fond of having their heads or ears touched. Oh and their size, a llama is a BIT bigger than a goat 

Teeth trimming is a whole 'nother thing since I don't seem to find much in the way of goats needing their teeth trimmed but it is common in alpacas and llamas. You can spend a lot of money on a Tooth-A-Matic, works fast, at least on the videos. You can also use a dremel tool though I don't know how easy it is to get them nice and flat one at a time like that.

The lady I'm getting the alpacas from told be about Bright Livestock in Jay, NY. They sell both the Tooth-A-Matic and a Dremel like tool called the Smooth-O-Matic. You can buy the dust guard separately and it fits (according to the Smooth-O-Matic description) on a Dremel.
http://www.lightlivestockequipment.com/product-category/tooth-trimming/


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## NH homesteader

How often do alpaca and Llama teeth need to be dealt with? I'm interested in someday getting a couple of alpacas but between shearing,  feet and teeth they seem a bit labor intensive just to have as pets . I might have to continue to be an alpaca admirer from afar!


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## Bruce

Depends on the animal I guess  The general answer is "when their incisors no longer meet the pallet smoothly". I've not had them before so I can't tell you how often they need their teeth done. Check back in a year or two  Presumably if they line up well with the pallet, they get worn down naturally and don't often need filing.

Shearing is once a year, feet depends on what they walk on. If they have enough hardscape they will wear down their nails, if they have only soft ground, the nails will grow faster and need trimming more often. Same with sheep, goats, etc.


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## misfitmorgan

frustratedearthmother said:


> Hope you can get it all taken care of.  Before and after pics would be awesome!



Yes yes they would be lol....so far my track record on getting things on film is....well sad 



Bruce said:


> You are all set then! I think goat and llama hoofs are pretty similar. Since you have experience correcting bad goat feet before, likely the only challenge will be getting the llamas to trust you. I don't know about goats but as I read it camelids aren't at all fond of having their heads or ears touched. Oh and their size, a llama is a BIT bigger than a goat
> 
> Teeth trimming is a whole 'nother thing since I don't seem to find much in the way of goats needing their teeth trimmed but it is common in alpacas and llamas. You can spend a lot of money on a Tooth-A-Matic, works fast, at least on the videos. You can also use a dremel tool though I don't know how easy it is to get them nice and flat one at a time like that.
> 
> The lady I'm getting the alpacas from told be about Bright Livestock in Jay, NY. They sell both the Tooth-A-Matic and a Dremel like tool called the Smooth-O-Matic. You can buy the dust guard separately and it fits (according to the Smooth-O-Matic description) on a Dremel.
> http://www.lightlivestockequipment.com/product-category/tooth-trimming/



Their feet are actually completely different  i was not thrilled to learn that lol and man do they kick hard. No feet trimmed yet the kicking was just while being caught and loaded..DH limped for two days. Anyhow sheep and goat hooves are the same for all intents and purposes when trimming is concerned i.e. hard outer hoof wall 360 degrees around and softer inner sole/frog area...llama and i assume alpaca feet are a thick leathery pad and just on the front half is a "hoof wall" which is aka nails....yes camelids have toenails not hooves so that should be interesting.

I have seen the fancy machine but for two llama im not going to bother i would rather dremel them. To dremel them you use a flat wheel bit and cut from the front of the teeth to the back and just line up each cut with the next. The nice thing about cutting their teeth is as long as they are smooth they do not need to be perfectly straight or lined up because they should be worn that way.



NH homesteader said:


> How often do alpaca and Llama teeth need to be dealt with? I'm interested in someday getting a couple of alpacas but between shearing,  feet and teeth they seem a bit labor intensive just to have as pets . I might have to continue to be an alpaca admirer from afar!



Alpaca teeth are for their whole life though it is a bit like goat horns..they grow fast when they are young and as they age they slow in growth. I dont own alpacas so i dunno how often it is on older ones but younger ones ive heard once a year or so depending.

Llama teeth do not grow continuously and usually dont need cut to often like once or twice in their life maybe. Mostly as Bruce said if you keep them lined up under their pallet they will wear them down themselves. 

With both a lot has to do with breeding.

Generally i would assume you can trim teeth, shear and cut nails all on the same day so labor intensive one day a year lol. i know some Llama only need sheared once every other year..alpaca no such luck though lol. For nail trimming its as needed and varies by diet to im sure as well as ground like Bruce said i'm guessing every 3-6months??

All my info is from research lol no real life experience with these critters yet.


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## misfitmorgan

Also i forgot to mention Saturday morning we found......baby piglets in our barn. Apprently our boar had gotten atleast one of the girls but even so only made 6 piglets and 2 were DOA we believe. So poor litter size and not to sad we killed the boar, the 6 pig litter took him 3months before she was knocked up. But anyhow baby piglets!!!! 3 boys and 1 girl and i already claimed her as a breeder pending how she grows. Momma has an awesome attitude, you can go in there and play with her piggies and she is calm as can be even if they squeal but doing an excellent job keeping them fed and warm and no crushing so far.


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## Baymule

I hope the llamas can settle in and become  your beloved pets. As caring as you are, they should warm up to you in no time.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Their feet are actually completely different  i was not thrilled to learn that lol and man do they kick hard. No feet trimmed yet the kicking was just while being caught and loaded..DH limped for two days. Anyhow sheep and goat hooves are the same for all intents and purposes when trimming is concerned i.e. hard outer hoof wall 360 degrees around and softer inner sole/frog area...llama and i assume alpaca feet are a thick leathery pad and just on the front half is a "hoof wall" which is aka nails....yes camelids have toenails not hooves so that should be interesting.
> 
> .....
> 
> Generally i would assume you can trim teeth, shear and cut nails all on the same day so labor intensive one day a year lol. i know some Llama only need sheared once every other year..alpaca no such luck though lol. For nail trimming its as needed and varies by diet to im sure as well as ground like Bruce said i'm guessing every 3-6months??
> 
> All my info is from research lol no real life experience with these critters yet.



My alpacas were delivered yesterday morning, the chickens are still wigged out. The boys had their pedicures and ivermectin shots before they were loaded up at their prior home. Teddy was born there, first time he had ever gone off the property. Laddie was purchased but I don't think he travelled other than to get to their place. Kelly said Teddy's front toenails didn't need anything, already on the same plane as the pads. She also said the girls she had (given away earlier in the year) that had white toenails needed them trimmed more often. I had also read that, no idea WHY that would be. I have to assume llamas are harder than alpacas simply because they are so much bigger (the SMALL adults run about 300 pounds and a BIG alpaca is under 200) and stronger. Since they need their nails done now, I think you'll need to get them pretty well immobilized so you don't get kicked. Maybe you can do a quick and dirty squeeze chute for them.

Find the videos; basically it is: clean out the packed in dirt if present, trim off a bit of the tip then trim down one side then the other, repeat until done but take care to not get down to the quick. The goal is that the bottom of nails (2 per foot) are flat and in contact with the standing surface at the same time as the pad, one plane. Like I said, I haven't done it yet but it looks pretty easy ASSUMING they aren't totally screwed up from lack of attention.

Alpacas are SUPPOSED to be sheared annually. The guy that the people on my road use didn't come by and didn't return calls until late in the summer and then he said it was too late, they wouldn't have time to grow enough back for winter So there they sit with a year plus growth of fiber. Must have been miserable during the summer. When we were tending them for 2 weeks while their owners were gone they would come out of their barn for their pellets (in feeders on an outside fence), eye us warily while they ate then head straight back to the barn. I was expecting they would be REALLY standoffish once here based on being moved and their prior behavior but they are being more interactive than I expected. They come over to see what I am doing as long as I don't pay too much direct attention to them.


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## Baymule

Alpacas sound like interesting animals to have on the farm. How do they get along with sheep?


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I hope the llamas can settle in and become  your beloved pets. As caring as you are, they should warm up to you in no time.


 Thank you @Baymule very kind of you to say and i hope that they do...i have been able to get every other wild critter we got handed to love me and wanna be with me so we shall see.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> My alpacas were delivered yesterday morning, the chickens are still wigged out. The boys had their pedicures and ivermectin shots before they were loaded up at their prior home. Teddy was born there, first time he had ever gone off the property. Laddie was purchased but I don't think he travelled other than to get to their place. Kelly said Teddy's front toenails didn't need anything, already on the same plane as the pads. She also said the girls she had (given away earlier in the year) that had white toenails needed them trimmed more often. I had also read that, no idea WHY that would be. I have to assume llamas are harder than alpacas simply because they are so much bigger (the SMALL adults run about 300 pounds and a BIG alpaca is under 200) and stronger. Since they need their nails done now, I think you'll need to get them pretty well immobilized so you don't get kicked. Maybe you can do a quick and dirty squeeze chute for them.
> 
> Find the videos; basically it is: clean out the packed in dirt if present, trim off a bit of the tip then trim down one side then the other, repeat until done but take care to not get down to the quick. The goal is that the bottom of nails (2 per foot) are flat and in contact with the standing surface at the same time as the pad, one plane. Like I said, I haven't done it yet but it looks pretty easy ASSUMING they aren't totally screwed up from lack of attention.
> 
> Alpacas are SUPPOSED to be sheared annually. The guy that the people on my road use didn't come by and didn't return calls until late in the summer and then he said it was too late, they wouldn't have time to grow enough back for winter So there they sit with a year plus growth of fiber. Must have been miserable during the summer. When we were tending them for 2 weeks while their owners were gone they would come out of their barn for their pellets (in feeders on an outside fence), eye us warily while they ate then head straight back to the barn. I was expecting they would be REALLY standoffish once here based on being moved and their prior behavior but they are being more interactive than I expected. They come over to see what I am doing as long as I don't pay too much direct attention to them.



They do say Alpacas and Llamas are very curious critters. THe closest the llamas get to me is the male came and smelled my head...thats it lol and i had to stand like a statue and look at the ground to even get that. The female is a freak and high strung but i think she is pregnant and ready to give birth soonish so that might be some of her issue and move stress. the two llama and the two rams stay together as their own herd and i have never seen them in the barn for more then about 60 seconds so i am worried about their water and feed. DH said leave the water in the barn so they are forced to come in but im less concerned about forcing them to do anything atm and just want to make sure they are eating and drinking.



Baymule said:


> Alpacas sound like interesting animals to have on the farm. How do they get along with sheep?


Well the llamas seem to get along just fine....and by get along i mean so far dont really seem to notice their non-herd sheep lol.

i mentioned we had piglets born right? i dont remember if that was this thread or another one but we had 6 piglets born on saturday morning....two appear to have been DOA...we have 3 boys and 1 girls. I claimed the girl for a breeder depending how she grows. Sarah has the best attitude ever for a mama, calm, relaxed, not stressed when we go in her pen or play with her piglets. i believe my pet gilt Eva is also bred and due very soon as she is forming a milk line. She also has a good attitude though a lot more vocal then Sarah, she comes up to me and grunts and carries on until i give her some attention or dinner. Sarah's piglets so far are very quiet like her, she does make quiet grunts to them esp while they are nursing but otherwise not much noise. Atm Eva and Sarah are both locked in stalls, Sarah doesnt care cause she has her piglets but Eva hates it and lets me know it. 

We also ended up taking the doberdoodle Issac went to have a playdate with. She was up for adoption and they got along to well not too. Her name is Kora and she is 1 month younger then Issac, already spayed yay. They get along fantastically and Kora is very well behaved, we really like her a lot. She seems to be bonding to DH which is nice for him because he has not had a big dog bonded to him since his dobie died. Poor Kora did have to get a embarrassing hair cut already though....her legs from the "knees" down got shaved. It took one trip to the barn to see that her legs will need to be kept trimmed.

Kora and Issac on the trip home



 

Here is Kora and Issac...Issac was trying to get her to play(ignore my messy floor)




Very excited they get along so well esp only meeting saturday night. They are like best buddies already. Sunday night we put Issac in his kennel and left Kora out to see how she was gonna do overnight(without the Issac tornado). DH and i went into the bedroom and Kora and the small dogs came along and jumped up on the bed, as soon as the light went off Issac started carrying on. I understand we left one of the "pack" in the other room but he know hes doesnt always get to sleep in the bed/bedroom. So anyhow Issac was carrying on so Kora got out of bed and i was like where is she going now so i waited about 10 minutes and snuck out there. I found her laying on the floor next to his kennel "keeping him company"...i think i smiled so big i about broke my face. It was one of the most affectionate things ive even seen a dog do for another dog she met less then 48hrs earlier.


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## Latestarter

Dogs are just the best! So glad Issac has a companion and I imagine Kora is super happy to have Issac and a new loving home!


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> They do say Alpacas and Llamas are very curious critters. THe closest the llamas get to me is the male came and smelled my head...thats it lol and i had to stand like a statue and look at the ground to even get that. The female is a freak and high strung but i think she is pregnant and ready to give birth soonish so that might be some of her issue and move stress. the two llama and the two rams stay together as their own herd and i have never seen them in the barn for more then about 60 seconds so i am worried about their water and feed. DH said leave the water in the barn so they are forced to come in but im less concerned about forcing them to do anything atm and just want to make sure they are eating and drinking.



Any reason the llamas SHOULD go in the barn? Why not put feed and water outside? Less messy that way  My "new" guys seem to prefer to be outside. They slept out last night and it went below freezing. They can come and go from their end of the barn at will. So far they have not decided on a place in the barn for their bathroom (yea! less work for me) and they apparently started their outside latrine wherever the first one to go was standing at the time. It is just in the approximate center of the barnyard. The grass will grow really well there until I decide to clean up because I'm not running my mower through it and I doubt they will eat the grass there.

Both took alpaca food from my hand through the fence this morning and yesterday morning but that is as close as they want to get so far. I can get near them as long as I am talking to them as I go BY. Stop to chat and they get nervous. One of my White Rocks is hell bent to lay out in the weeds by the pond. All the hens are freaked by the boys but this girl must have snuck by when they weren't looking. I saw her down by the water then she started around the pond. The boys noticed and wandered about halfway to the pond and stopped. They had chickens at their prior home so no big deal for them.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Dogs are just the best! So glad Issac has a companion and I imagine Kora is super happy to have Issac and a new loving home!



Oh yes Kora seems very pleased with herself and her new home...it is working out so well i have this small fear in the back of my mind that they are going to get in a massive fight and need stitches. So far so good though...Kora has had a small tussle with our little dogs twice now but the first time the litle dog started it and the second time Kora just knocked them over and growled but didnt hurt them. THe biggest problem there is my now 13yr old chihuahua mix things she is queen of the castle because she has been able to be Dom to Issac his whole life and she is figuring out Kora is not gonna take that. Kora is dominant over Issac but Issac has always been a submissive dog so that works. Yesterday i took Issac and Kora out into the hay field to get a good run in and have some play time...Kora is a tad chunky but im sure she will slim down with the play regimen they have which mostly consists of running and chasing each other.



Bruce said:


> Any reason the llamas SHOULD go in the barn? Why not put feed and water outside? Less messy that way  My "new" guys seem to prefer to be outside. They slept out last night and it went below freezing. They can come and go from their end of the barn at will. So far they have not decided on a place in the barn for their bathroom (yea! less work for me) and they apparently started their outside latrine wherever the first one to go was standing at the time. It is just in the approximate center of the barnyard. The grass will grow really well there until I decide to clean up because I'm not running my mower through it and I doubt they will eat the grass there.
> 
> Both took alpaca food from my hand through the fence this morning and yesterday morning but that is as close as they want to get so far. I can get near them as long as I am talking to them as I go BY. Stop to chat and they get nervous. One of my White Rocks is hell bent to lay out in the weeds by the pond. All the hens are freaked by the boys but this girl must have snuck by when they weren't looking. I saw her down by the water then she started around the pond. The boys noticed and wandered about halfway to the pond and stopped. They had chickens at their prior home so no big deal for them.



They will have to go in the barn to eat and drink because we have no outside feeder, even if we did make one atm the hay would be destroyed im thinking unless we had a rather large roof and at least one wall on the north side to stop the snow. I live right by the edge of the state and the great lake so it is always always windy here esp in winter and the snow drifts get huge. Aside from the hay feeder problem even if we made one(this is imaging we had time to do that) they would still need to go in the barn for water because we have no outside waterer it gets to cold to have anything short of those fully insulated heated waterers out there and those start at over $300 plus the material to run the water line outside and how we would keep it from freezing i have no idea. Stocktank heaters dont have enough melting strength to keep up with the wind and cold here, we tried that for several years we just ended up with a solid block of ice with the heater sitting on top. Then when the trough got full of ice we would have to start a second one. So most people here keep waterers inside the barn for winter, they do still freeze without a tank heater but dont freeze up into ice blocks with it. i hope that all made sense. So basically yes they need to go in the barn lol. The entire herd was locked in the barn all day yesterday including them....because they took out our fence. We have a big solar powered fencer and they tested it so many times it died and then they walked our woven fence down and were loose on the property. So we have to re-do about 80% of our fence this weekend..fun fun. Apparently Llamas push fences...a lot On the plus side since they were locked in the barn they are mingling with the rest of the herd, eatting grain, plenty of hay and lots of water. The male also came up to me last night and let me pet him on the neck for a second. They did however decide the poop pile should be where the main waterer inside the barn is....so we had to empty/wash and move that over 8ft.

We lost one of our young goats yesterday, one of our future milk goats named Casper she was around 6 months old. We are not sure what happened but DH found her laying in the gutter inside the barn very wet, dirty, and hypothermic. He brought her inside and i stuck her in the bath to warm her up but we were to late, i got her warm and dry but she starter aspirating some kind of clear fluid and having trouble breathing and bloating. She was quite sick when we got her and always small so i dont know if she had some underlying problem we couldn't see or something happened to her from one of the other barn animals.  Very sad to see her leave us.


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## NH homesteader

So sorry about Casper


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## Hens and Roos

sorry about Casper


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## frustratedearthmother

So sorry about Casper


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## Baymule

Sorry you lost your goat, it's always hard to lose one.


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## misfitmorgan

Thanks guys...it sucks but as always we get a bit sad and keep moving along. Farming is never easy...which is why DH has his favorite saying. When everything is breaking, failing, going wrong, dying, etc "We're farming now!" always makes us laugh even when we are terribly frustrated.


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## NH homesteader

I just said to my husband earlier this morning,  farming isn't always fun is it? He said that's how you know you're doing it right. We lost a lot of meat birds this year so not happy here either.


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> I just said to my husband earlier this morning,  farming isn't always fun is it? He said that's how you know you're doing it right. We lost a lot of meat birds this year so not happy here either.



We lost all 20 of our meat birds this year and went from roughly 100 laying hens down to 15. We have moved everyone to the barn now until we can redo the coop and added 10 new laying hens.


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## NH homesteader

Ouch.  That's bad.  We have lost over 50% of our meat birds thus far.  You must have serious predators.


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Ouch.  That's bad.  We have lost over 50% of our meat birds thus far.  You must have serious predators.



Hawks and Eagles took 95% of them...no feather piles or carcasses or anything just gone. Also lost 4 guineas and 15 ducks. We tried netting the top of the coop yard so early morning and evening no birds could get in but then they started taking them when we free ranged them in broad daylight. Then we noticed a bald eagle momma teaching her new chick where to get easy food. After two month or so the netting was useless the wind had shredded it. So this spring they will be a totally new coop yard with wire mesh lid.


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## NH homesteader

Oh wow. We have hawks that hang out but haven't taken anyone yet.  That's infuriating!


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Oh wow. We have hawks that hang out but haven't taken anyone yet.  That's infuriating!



oh yes it is....and you cant shoot them. It's all BS because the wind farms can kill 10K birds of prey including bald eagles a year per wind farm....but we cant even though they are killing our livestock.


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## misfitmorgan

i saw this and thought it was pretty funny...and no i was NOT searching for AGHs



 
These ended up right next to each other on craigslist...talk about a marketing nightmare.


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## frustratedearthmother

You're right about that!   Maybe the higher priced ones are registered?


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## TAH

Sorry about casper


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> oh yes it is....and you cant shoot them. It's all BS because the wind farms can kill 10K birds of prey including bald eagles a year per wind farm....but we cant even though they are killing our livestock.



I don't know about bald eagles but I believe you can shoot other BoP if they are killing your livestock.

I understand now why the llamas need to go into the barn. I had ASSUMED! that like me, you currently have some pasture for them to eat this time of year. I have the heated water bucket outside (not plugged in!) at the moment. It did skim over with ice yesterday morning. I'll need to get another non heated outside bucket. The less they are in the barn, the less likely they are to start a latrine in there 

I have a hook for the heated water bucket in the barn on an outside wall near the hay feeder. I put some alpaca/llama pellets in their indoor grain feeders last evening. They were still there this morning so the boys didn't go in the barn last night or this morning. They were empty about 4 PM so they did find time to go inside. On (in) the other hand(s), they have eaten pellets from my hands every morning. No touching though. Two days ago they alerted on a deer in the NW field. This morning they alerted to a flock of turkeys in the same area. At least 12 adults and some juveniles. I bet I missed 95% of the wildlife activity in the past having nothing to spot them for me


----------



## farmerjan

In VA you cannot shoot any bird of prey, nor can you kill the black mexican buzzards that have made their way up here either. As far as I know it is federal, not a state thing.  No hawks, eagles, owls, buzzards, nothing.  There is alot of the SSS with the hawks and owls.In fact there is legislation in several states trying to get some sort of exemption for the black buzzards as they will attack and kill lambs, kids, baby calves and who knows what else.  They drive away the old "naked neck" turkey buzzards that used to be the only kind we had here and that only eat dead "road kill" type stuff.  Had a first calf heifer calve last week and there were a dozen of the black b***tards on the ground within 10 feet of the heifer and she was charging after them to keep them away from her new calf.  And the resident bald eagle was sitting in the tree 30 feet above her.  What an aggravation.  Chased them all off then she got the calf and they headed to the woods.  All is well now but they are a pain.  Lost 122 free range layers to the eagle 2 years ago and after trying letting them out later, just late afternoon, etc. finally quit.  They were at a pasture that we cannot keep a dog at, the llama didn't bond with the chickens but did take good care of the calves that year.  and I finally said enough.  There are several nesting pairs in the area now, and everyone oohs and aahs over them, but then they get p**d off when the price of food goes up. Problem here is they have microchipped some when they re-introduced them here so you don't dare take a chance of getting rid of them as they found one out west that had been shoot and buried on some ranch and he got time for it and a huge fine.  They might be beautiful but I hate them.


----------



## NH homesteader

Yikes. We have owls here but since our birds are locked up tight at night, haven't had any issues.  We see hawks sometimes.  Used to more often,  maybe someone else SSS'd them for us because I hardly ever see them any more. 

Never heard of these Mexican buzzards.  How far north are they?how  awful! They sound like terrible creatures!


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## CntryBoy777

I know here is Ms it is a 'Right to Defend' state....you can shoot Any animal that attacks livestock, pets, or people...and that includes humans too....but, ya better have Evidence when the Wildlife Officer pulls in your drive.


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## NH homesteader

I think I would have better luck shooting a person than an eagle. They're less protected. 

I'm only kind of joking.


----------



## Baymule

My wacko former chicken killer Great Pyrenees will leap in the air at hawks and buzzards. She hates them and knows they are a danger to HER chickens.


----------



## NH homesteader

Good girl!


----------



## farmerjan

NH homesteader said:


> Yikes. We have owls here but since our birds are locked up tight at night, haven't had any issues.  We see hawks sometimes.  Used to more often,  maybe someone else SSS'd them for us because I hardly ever see them any more.
> 
> Never heard of these Mexican buzzards.  How far north are they?how  awful! They sound like terrible creatures!



As far as I know they have been seen in Pa and maybe further north?  They are black, big wing span but have white on wing feathers, when in flight you can see it.  They are nasty.  I know Texas is trying to get something pushed through with the state legislators since they are still federally protected.  I am not sure that even in Miss with their "right to defend" status that it would over-ride the federal laws.  If it's not legal in Texas then I can't imagine it would be legal anywhere else.  I understand the livestock assoc's. here in Va are also petitioning to get some sort of legal rights to kill them.


----------



## farmerjan

Did a little more searching on the mexican black buzzards,  and found that if you find them attacking livestock and you have a fish and game officer come out, they can recommend that you get a permit through the migratory bird act to kill them.  Texas is trying to get them off the non-game bird federal protection list so that farmers and ranchers can deal with them immediately.  Google it, there are lots of sites to read how aggressive they are.  Needless to say most will SSS  but by getting the damage recognized will help to substantiate that they are destructive.  If only I could get them to look at this eagle the same way....as he carried the chickens up and over the neighbors, and dropped a few there on his way.


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## norseofcourse

I'm sorry about Casper


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## misfitmorgan

Far as i know all Birds of Prey and Migratory birds are covered under federal law. No mexican buzzards up here..yet thankfully. 

Here the DNR put trackers on some BoP so you can "get rid" of them but your taking a big chance on getting that lovely fine. This past summer someone killed a bald eagle and tried to hide it on one of the islands locally...but DNR had a tracker on it, recovered the body and went looking for the person who killed it.

 All the farmers up here take out hawks when they start killing large amounts of small livestock but no one really talks about it and incinerates the evidence immediately. Those hawks get brave, we had one IN our barn chasing our chickens. 

We contacted the DNR to see if we could do something about the hawks or the eagles and we were flat out told "It is the farmers responsibility to make sure their livestock is safe from predators by keeping them in secure enclosures" basically if you free range your birds its your own fault and you should keep them locked up if you have a BoP problem. 

They are useless up here, a farmer friend of ours has been trying to get a block permit for 4 yrs to kill deer around his hay storage area to keep them from eating his cow hay/round bales. The DNR told him he had to prove the deer were eating it so he took videos and set up trail cams etc for 6 months. Then they said they would have to see signs in person so he said ok come on over anytime, i will be here. They have been to his property 6 times and still wont issue him a block permit. There is very obviously lots of deer eating his hay, he owns approx 50 adult beef cows so he has a fair amount of hay. Meanwhile they found 2 new confirmed cases of TB in cows in our county....gee i wonder why.


----------



## NH homesteader

Wow I'm feeling lucky here.  We had issues with  a bear,  as did our farmer friend up the road.  He asked the game warden if he could shoot  it and he said yeah...  I would prefer you try electric fencing  first but you have the right to protect your livestock so do what you have to do. 

The hawks used to be around enough that we had netting on top of all our bird fences but I don't see them anymore. (works for me!) 

Never would have thought of that deer problem. The TB was from deer? Sorry I don't know anything about TB.


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## luvmypets

Just saw you had hawk problems. We found out a interesting solution to this a few years ago. I don't know how big their run is but we take reinforced caution tape and do a crisscross pattern over the birds. We haven't had a hawk attack in two years


----------



## Baymule

On BYC, I read some good hawk strategies. One was running tape or monofilament line across the run, even hanging old CD's or aluminum pie pans from the lines. Another that I read was to cover the run with netting and if a hawk got tangled in it, cut it out and dump hawk and netting somewhere, not on YOUR property, but make it gone.

We have hawks here, but our GP's keep them away.


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Wow I'm feeling lucky here.  We had issues with  a bear,  as did our farmer friend up the road.  He asked the game warden if he could shoot  it and he said yeah...  I would prefer you try electric fencing  first but you have the right to protect your livestock so do what you have to do.
> 
> The hawks used to be around enough that we had netting on top of all our bird fences but I don't see them anymore. (works for me!)
> 
> Never would have thought of that deer problem. The TB was from deer? Sorry I don't know anything about TB.



Yep TB in the cattle is from the deer, the deer have tb and when they graze on the baled hay or the sacks of grains stored by farmers for their cattle the TB can pass to the cattle. In general farmers dont want deer hanging around their cattle because they can also get it from direct contact or where deer were sleeping or grazing in the fields. Goats can get it as well. Its not really a big problem in animals that will be slaughtered young but your breeders would be a big problem. Several years ago when they have the first outbreaks of mass TB in cattle here, DNR was killing entire herds, ruining farmers lives without compensating them at all. Digging mass pits on the farmer property and burying 100s of cows. It shut down many many family farms who were over 100yrs running and the only source of income.


----------



## misfitmorgan

luvmypets said:


> Just saw you had hawk problems. We found out a interesting solution to this a few years ago. I don't know how big their run is but we take reinforced caution tape and do a crisscross pattern over the birds. We haven't had a hawk attack in two years
> View attachment 22934


Our area is about the same size times 2 but split....one run is in front of the coop and one is on the backside..so that would probly work. We will have to try it and see.


----------



## misfitmorgan

frustratedearthmother said:


> You're right about that!   Maybe the higher priced ones are registered?



Nope and the $150 ones are 6 weeks old and the $60 ones are 12 weeks old, if i was in the market for AGHs i would def be buying from the $60 guy lol.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Oh my word the Llama's are destroying everything. The walked down the pasture fence so they and everyone else has been closed in the barn. We found out they could reach into the grain/feed stall and knock the lid off the grain box...to eat grain..luckily we caught them before they got to much. So we moved the grain box and all feed to the other side of the grain stall. They pushed so hard on the front wall to the feed stall that the cement anchors broke so now the wall is wobbly and only held on at the ceiling. We had boards in a mostly finished stall so we could build the stall face...they knocked those down so the goats and ducks/chickens could walk all over them and pee and poo on them. Hopefully thats it!!

On the pig front of things..all the new piglets are doing well. We have them and their momma Sarah in one stall and my pig Eva in the stall next door. Where the old feed trough goes under the stall wall the piglets are small enough to walk thru to Eva's stall. Yesterday DH went out to check piglets and found them all in Evas stall running about and Eva didnt mind at all. So DH shooed them back into their momma's stall and wedged a cinderblock in the hole under the wall. Except he only go 3 of the 4 back in the right stall. When he went to feed a few minutes later he realized he was missing one, so he looked in Eva's stall and there was one of the boys running around. So he didnt think much of it and went into Eva's stall and scooped up the piglet. He must have startled it cause it started squealing and my my pig Eva charged DH. He sent her packing but it appears she will be a good momma but hopefully not to protective. I believe she is getting ready to deliver her piglets hence the elevated hormones and the charge.


----------



## Bruce

Oh! So sorry about the llama damage! My understanding is that alpacas generally don't challenge fences, apparently that doesn't apply to llamas.


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## farmerjan

Problem is that alpacas are useless as guardians due to their smaller size and gentler nature.  Llamas can do a fair amount of damage and it sounds like these were fairly "feral" in their previous place so good luck.  They often do not learn manners, etc., as they get older and set in their ways.  Best place for them is on pasture without access to anything in the barn except I know you said they have to come in to get access to water.  You should have the "grain stall" with boards to 8 ft so that they can't reach over.  Tough to bring in animals that you aren't ready for or even expecting...good luck.


----------



## Bruce

Yep, not using the alpacas as guardians, though they are useful alert tools if I'm outside. On Tuesday they alerted on a deer in the NW field. On Thursday they alerted on a flock of turkeys in about the same place. I would not have noticed either time without their alert. Hopefully the boys will make a fuss if Mrs Fox shows up in April again.


----------



## NH homesteader

Thanks for reminding me why I don't ever want llamas. Hopefully you get them sorted out and they'll be an asset to you.  Or at least tolerable!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thankfully the Llama's are calming down and getting more used to people again. The male is letting us pet him now. They were tame 5 yrs ago before DH left his first wife so hopfully they will get tame again. i think the fence damage is related to the pasture being pretty much gone because of a couple of hard frosts we have had already. So they are trying to reach out and eat some of the taller still green stuff outside the pasture area. We have decided to put up a temporary electric fence pasture  where the grass is taller and still a bit green to hopefully help this problem. We ended up putting fence wire on the top of the  grain stall walls which should keep the llamas out. we planned to put wire on the tops of all the stalls eventually.



NH homesteader said:


> Thanks for reminding me why I don't ever want llamas. Hopefully you get them sorted out and they'll be an asset to you.  Or at least tolerable!


 They are not all like that lol. Several sheep farmers near us have one of two and dont have issues with them. i think most of these issues is just us not being set up for them and them being left to go wild.

So far the coyotes have stopped coming up by the back of the pasture so i hope that means they are doing their job. They did an excellent job protecting the ex-wife's flock, her sheep flock literally lives in the woods in a smallish pasture on property separate from where she lives by about 12 miles and they didnt have a single predator loss in the past 5 yrs.


----------



## Bruce

I'm not surprised the coyotes have started looking for snacks elsewhere. The llama alarm sounds like the alpaca alarm only "heftier" and the llamas outweigh a coyote by about 10x. I presume the llamas are as alert as the alpacas. Teddy alerted to an orange cat going up the private road on the south side of our property the last 2 days. It was a good 100 yards away.

Glad your llamas are settling!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I'm not surprised the coyotes have started looking for snacks elsewhere. The llama alarm sounds like the alpaca alarm only "heftier" and the llamas outweigh a coyote by about 10x. I presume the llamas are as alert as the alpacas. Teddy alerted to an orange cat going up the private road on the south side of our property the last 2 days. It was a good 100 yards away.
> 
> Glad your llamas are settling!



i'm glad too!! Hopefully they will get fixed up on toe trims and wormer soon. Have you ever seen a Alpaca kick....wow they kick fast and i didnt now they could kick forward with their hind legs. I'm thinking Llama's will be the same lol.


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## NH homesteader

Alpacas kick? Yikes! 

Hope the coyotes stay away for good! Will llamas scare off the hawks?


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## Bruce

I haven't annoyed mine to the point of getting kicked  I don't think they kick often, based on quick research I just did. I found a video where a guy did get kicked. He was approaching the animal too quickly, it moved forward and kicked back. Yep fast! but (the research says) since they have soft pads, not hooves, they don't do a lot of damage unless they hit a "sensitive spot".


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Alpacas kick? Yikes!
> 
> Hope the coyotes stay away for good! Will llamas scare off the hawks?



I dont know if they would scare off hawks or not...i would imagine though...we shall see.



Bruce said:


> I haven't annoyed mine to the point of getting kicked  I don't think they kick often, based on quick research I just did. I found a video where a guy did get kicked. He was approaching the animal too quickly, it moved forward and kicked back. Yep fast! but (the research says) since they have soft pads, not hooves, they don't do a lot of damage unless they hit a "sensitive spot".


i can tell you Llama's do damage....DH's shin is still multi-colored from the day he brought them home. Oddly i thought they would spit before kicking..nope DH didnt get spit on even once and but kicked 4 times by the female Llama.


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## luvmypets

As I have been on the other ends of those kicks, they can be pretty painful. Now it doesn't hurt for long(hr max)but they kick hard. Its more of a shock more than anything but if definetly gets your attention.
@misfitmorgan Im not surprised she didn't spit. They normally kick with no warning except pinned ears. It takes a while to learn their body language.


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## Bruce

Laddie has pinned ears a lot more often than Teddy but he doesn't seem overly annoyed. Still trying to figure out their "cues".


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## misfitmorgan

luvmypets said:


> As I have been on the other ends of those kicks, they can be pretty painful. Now it doesn't hurt for long(hr max)but they kick hard. Its more of a shock more than anything but if definetly gets your attention.
> @misfitmorgan Im not surprised she didn't spit. They normally kick with no warning except pinned ears. It takes a while to learn their body language.



The female Llama is flakey..im hoping it is because she is possibly due to have a cria soonish and will become less flakey after that. She is a real nutcase you look at her and she lays her ears back and runs away. The male is alright he lets us pet him for a minute or two and let us trim his nails, and put a lead on him.


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## Bruce

He sounds REALLY calm. My boys will eat pellets from my hand but not last night when my wife was there. They don't see her much and are still wary. I've been giving them little scratches under the chin with a free finger while they are taking the pellets when I can get away with it. Any attempt to touch them farther down is met with the moving away. I figure it will take a fair bit of time.


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## misfitmorgan

So over the weekend i decided to pick and wash a suffolk fleece.

Here is the fleece





Lots of vegetable matter




This is after i picked out all the big VM pieces and shook the heck out of it




I did 3 cold rinses, this is rinse 1 after 45 minutes




This is rinse 2 after 30 minutes




Rinse 3 came out pretty much clear after 15 minutes...this is all cold water, the fleece was very very dirty. Here is a side by side of rinse 1 compared to rinse 2. I probly didnt need a 3rd rinse but it didnt hurt me to do it.




After the rinses i filled up my washer with hot tap water and dawn dishsoap, then shut off my washer and dropped in the fleece pushing it all under the water and let it sit for 30 minutes no agitation. I then ran the spin cycle and after that was done I removed the wool from the washer. I re-filled the washer with hot water and vinegar then dropped the fleece back in pushing it up and down a bit with a metal spoon. I let that sit for 15 minutes, then ran my spin cycle again and removed the wool. i seperated the wool and shook it out again removing a lot more of the VM, then I laid the wool out on a screen on top of our dog kennel. This is the wool the next morning.




The wool did not felt..yay




The fleece has a lot of second cuts in it and is rather short over all so not sure what i am going to do with it but it is washed now. I carded some and believe i am going to make batting out of it. I'm going to comb some just to see how it comes out if its decent i might make it into roving for an arm knit lap blanket.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> He sounds REALLY calm. My boys will eat pellets from my hand but not last night when my wife was there. They don't see her much and are still wary. I've been giving them little scratches under the chin with a free finger while they are taking the pellets when I can get away with it. Any attempt to touch them farther down is met with the moving away. I figure it will take a fair bit of time.



The male does not want his head touched at all or his neck...just his back and only for a minute or so then he lays his ears back and looks at you like "ok lady thats enough, go away"


----------



## Bruce

Wow, after all that washing, still bits of FM. How does one get rid of that? I can't do it your way, front loading washers aren't useful that way. Might have to do it in the stock tank, then use the washer spin cycle to get the water out.

My boys will be a mess by shearing time, they keep getting into more and more "stuff" that sticks in their fiber.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Wow, after all that washing, still bits of FM. How does one get rid of that? I can't do it your way, front loading washers aren't useful that way. Might have to do it in the stock tank, then use the washer spin cycle to get the water out.
> 
> My boys will be a mess by shearing time, they keep getting into more and more "stuff" that sticks in their fiber.


It's not FM it's VM lol...thats why i did the three cold rinses to remove FM before washing it gets the fleece a lot cleaner. If your doing cold wash rinses you can do as many as you like just keep in mind the fleece will not look white until it is actually washed in hot water with your scour agent or detergent...assuming it is a white fleece lol. No i dont think the front loader would work well for washing or spinning. You can not have agitation and spinning it vertically would cause some agitation until the drum got moving and got the water out. I would think the best alternative choice would be just use a large plastic tub with hot tap water for washing and then rinsing, then drop it on a drying rack and squeeze out as much water as you can, then spread it out to dry. In the sun on a warm day with a light breeze it shouldnt take more then a day to dry.

If your worried about to much stuff in the wool you can coat them after they are shorn. We will be making coats for our sheep this year and the Llama's.


----------



## Bruce

Sorry, I was using FM as Foreign Material but I see what you are getting at  I'm new at this wool/fiber thing, don't have the lingo down just yet.

I don't think the boys will be wearing coats year round. Maybe they will eat some of the plants that provide VM to get stuck in their "coats".


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Sorry, I was using FM as Foreign Material but I see what you are getting at  I'm new at this wool/fiber thing, don't have the lingo down just yet.
> 
> I don't think the boys will be wearing coats year round. Maybe they will eat some of the plants that provide VM to get stuck in their "coats".



I was thinking you ment FM as fecal matter lol. Generally its all called VM in the fleeces for vegetable matter that includes fecal matter too btw. I dont meant coats as in their flece i mean a coat to cover it, many people buy bed sheets at the dollar store and cut them down then sew eleastic straps to the legs and use those for fleece coats to protect it. Gotta make sure you leave the butt exposed though.


----------



## Bruce

Those are the kinds of coats I meant, the people made ones. They are currently wearing the natural coats they started over a year ago. Can't see putting a people coat on the boys full time for a year to keep the fiber clean.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Those are the kinds of coats I meant, the people made ones. They are currently wearing the natural coats they started over a year ago. Can't see putting a people coat on the boys full time for a year to keep the fiber clean.


It's just a sheet so very light and dries quickly etc. Its common practice esp with alpaca because their prime fleece along the back/barrel gets destroyed without one. They should be cool enough it wouldnt bother then at all either. Everyone does what their comfortable with though and if the fiber is just for your own uses you might not need the prime fleece in top shape. Our suffolk sheep dont wear coats and im not sure i would coat them..the prime fleece isnt to important to me.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Last week we lost Ella. It was very sad for me i loved her a lot. I'm not sure what she died from she had grown her full coat back in and put on some weight. Last night DH came in and told me he found Black May dead. She started to show the same signs that Ella had with hair and weight loss about 2 months ago when she kidded. So i treated everyone for cocci again and thought that would fix the problem...apparently not.

Tests came back negative for CAE, CL, and Johnes. I am going to take new fecal tests into the vet and see if they have any info for me.

I'm wondering if it is a mineral problem. i sat down last night and thought about the herd as a whole..something i havnt really done before. We are having a fertility issue of some sort. 

Ella did not have a kid for over 2 years i thought it was her poorly state. 
Cassopia has not kidded in over 2 years.
Lucy and Missy both seem fine and kid year round without any issue.
Black May had no problem getting bred as soon as we got her pretty much, she had twin boys not to long ago.
White May came with her son and we thought she was prego but no kid.
Phoebe has a set of kids once a year.
The other girls are not old enough to breed yet.

Everyone seems lack-luster and a bit bloated all the time. The only ones who seem to be proper weight or even a bit fat are moon, ruger, lucy, and missy. Everyone else seems to lack a good fat covering and nothing i feed them seems to help i have tried alfalfa pellets, alfalfa hay, timothy hay, BOSS, sweet goat grain, shell corn, squash and pumpkins, beet pulp. I've tried giving them probiotics, yogurt, nutri-drench, bose gel, trace mineral block, 3 kinds of loose minerals, and vitamin B. Nothing seems to help for more then a short period of time.

They never lost the fishtail look even after the copper bolus, thin dull coats(the only two that had lost their coats were ella and black may), fertility issue, pale eyelids, under weight, a lot of hunched standing from about half the herd.

The 3 doe kids and the new buck we got at the end of april have not grown at all they still look 3-4 months old(how old they were when we got them) and are now approx 9-10months old.

Whenever we get new does they are fat and happy and then 4-6months later they are skinny and just not really healthy looking. They are not coming in with CAE, CL, Johnes because they are tested before hand and our herd has tested negative twice now...so i dont think it could be those.

We are missing something and i dont know what 

I want to try giving them Cobalt but DH says the copper didnt help so it isnt cobalt because they have cobalt in their loose minerals (0.02ppm). I told him a deficiency is not getting enough and 0.02ppm didnt seam like enough, he said no it builds up and is fine. He told me the barn is just sick  I dont agree there were no animals in the barn for 8+ years before our livestock.


----------



## NH homesteader

So sorry.  That is just awful.  I have no suggestions,  just sorry it's been rough for you and the critters.  Is it just the goats having issues?


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure do hate to hear that!!....and Hope ya can narrow down the Cause....I have no knowledge or experience that can help ya....have thought about soil, water, or plants that may be a contributor to it...doesn't sound good though....keep us Posted with what ya Find....again, I sure am sorry for your Loss!!


----------



## Hens and Roos

so sorry to hear


----------



## Goat Whisperer

So sorry 

I think @Ferguson K had a severe cobalt deficiency.

Have you looked at getting a mineral analysis done?  Did you take them in for a necropsy? Is your water high in anything... we have high iron and that can bind minerals. 

Are you keeping good hay out 24/7?


----------



## samssimonsays

SO sorry for your losses.


----------



## TAH




----------



## Baymule

What about free choice kelp meal? It is touted as having all the sea minerals in it.


----------



## Ferguson K

I lost goats, too,before we figured it out. you should have a mineral test done.

These are before and after pictures, 10 days apart. Not even her true before. She almost died, lots of your same symptoms.




 


 

After bolus


----------



## NH homesteader

That's amazing...


----------



## Ferguson K

@misfitmorgan I should add these were not diet changes, nor hay changes, no supplements , nada. Only bolus.


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry for your loss & that you're dealing with these ongoing issues. Sure would be nice if it was simple to figure out and fix.


----------



## norseofcourse

I'm so sorry for your losses        I sure hope you can figure out what's going on and find a fix for it.


----------



## babsbag

So sorry you lost your goats.  It can be hard figuring this out but I agree with the mineral panel. While you can't get a perfect test on some minerals as they need a liver biopsy to do that, you can get a good overall analysis. My guess is Selenium. I have kids die and slow growing kids from low selenium.


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> So sorry.  That is just awful.  I have no suggestions,  just sorry it's been rough for you and the critters.  Is it just the goats having issues?



Pigs and Llama are fine...sheep are harder to tell but seem to be in fine shape and grew like weeds though they are a tad skinnier then i would like going into winter.



Goat Whisperer said:


> So sorry
> 
> I think @Ferguson K had a severe cobalt deficiency.
> 
> Have you looked at getting a mineral analysis done?  Did you take them in for a necropsy? Is your water high in anything... we have high iron and that can bind minerals.
> 
> Are you keeping good hay out 24/7?



No necropsy, the vets here dont do goat or sheep necropsy but DH does his own sort just by looking all the organs over and such and said he couldnt see anything obviously wrong. Not sure if the well is high in anything i know it is a shallow well, which is why we are going to be having a new deep well put in. I guess i should send in samples to be tested, i just looked and the health department has the collection containers and mailer you can pick up for free but the lab charges some kind of small fee. They always have hay and waste a lot of it....we put out a round bale of second cut alfalfa which lasted them for approx 5 weeks and there was still no improvement.



Baymule said:


> What about free choice kelp meal? It is touted as having all the sea minerals in it.



i have heard some have good results with it and some not so good. i can look into ordering some.






Ferguson K said:


> I lost goats, too,before we figured it out. you should have a mineral test done.
> 
> These are before and after pictures, 10 days apart. Not even her true before. She almost died, lots of your same symptoms.
> 
> View attachment 24296
> View attachment 24297
> 
> After bolus
> View attachment 24298
> View attachment 24299



That is exactly what mine look like!!! Poor coat, fishtail, hunched up, looks like they have no fat. Any idea where i would send for a mineral test to be done?



babsbag said:


> So sorry you lost your goats.  It can be hard figuring this out but I agree with the mineral panel. While you can't get a perfect test on some minerals as they need a liver biopsy to do that, you can get a good overall analysis. My guess is Selenium. I have kids die and slow growing kids from low selenium.



i thought it was selenium at first two but they have a trace mineral block with selenium, plus selenium in their loose minerals and i gave then vitamin E & selenium gel...no improvement. I think the mineral panel is the best idea because i dont want to OD them on selenium...or anything else.


Thank you everyone


----------



## NH homesteader

I would be interested in knowing where to get a mineral analysis as well.  Does a vet have to do it? I have one little guy that has fine fecals but will not grow. The breeder told me she is having issues with her kids this year not growing well (after the fact,  thanks for that info up front).


----------



## misfitmorgan

I found this....which is interesting.
http://articles.extension.org/pages...-of-diagnosing-mineral-deficiencies-in-cattle


----------



## NH homesteader

That is interesting.  I bookmarked it to read later.  I'm pretty sure my issue is either selenium or zinc. Only two of my goats have any issues...  They came from the same breeder. They both had bo-se this spring.  I have to do more research.


----------



## misfitmorgan

As i understand the one link from the thread @Ferguson K posted cobalt and copper are related so if your deficient in one it is quite possible your deficient in the other.

Also found these....dose every 3 yrs, that would be nice.
http://pharmplex.com.au/Products/cobalt_pellets_sheep.htm


----------



## misfitmorgan

This is worth looking at as well. It appears to be one of the online modules for teaching goat nutrition from Lanston University in Oklahoma.
http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/training/nutrition.html


----------



## Ferguson K

Cobalt and copper are related. They also have similar symptoms, as does overdose.

My vet ran tons of tests, and if I ever correctly she ran some bloodwork to A&M. They found it and verified it with a soil "sample" I sent them. The vile was small, thumb sized, and apparently that's all they needed.


----------



## babsbag

I send my samples to CAHFS for mineral analysis. My goats have a mineral block, loose goat minerals, Bo-Se before freshening, and copper bolus 2x year. They were still deficient in Selenium and copper was very low. Some kids still needed Bo-Se at birth.  My well has semi-hard water but not high in iron or Molybdenum, which are the two big offenders.  I have been doing multi-min injections for a year and oh what a difference.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Ferguson K said:


> Cobalt and copper are related. They also have similar symptoms, as does overdose.
> 
> My vet ran tons of tests, and if I ever correctly she ran some bloodwork to A&M. They found it and verified it with a soil "sample" I sent them. The vile was small, thumb sized, and apparently that's all they needed.



If i have to try to get the vet to do it 
I will call and ask them but they always get so confused when I ask them things. I called to see if they treated lambs once and the lady on the phone said no we dont...then called back 45 minutes later and said yes they do treat lambs. The vet I ended up using told me they treated lambs, no problem and then at the second appointment told me she was their first lamb 

My part of Mi is copper, cobalt, molybdenum, iodine and selenium deficiant


----------



## misfitmorgan

The only test i can see there for cobalt is the heavy metals- extended screen which is $57 each and tests for arsenic, barium, beryllium, cadmium, cobalt, chromium, copper, iron, mercury, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, lead, zinc, thallium and vanadium. There is also a trace mineral screen which is $18 each and tests for copper, zinc, iron (unbound), magnesium, calcium, sodium, potassium, phosphorous. Then selenium test would be another test an is $18 each.

So if i wanted to run it all it would be $93 each goat...pretty sure i would only do one.


----------



## babsbag

I have never had the heavy metal done on live goat as CAHFS wants a liver or kidney. My dead goats that have been necropsied have always been on the low side for copper. They do copper with the trace mineral screen but the blood test is not as accurate. I always do the selenium too. My biggest offenders are selenium, and copper, and sometimes zinc. I pick the goats that look the worst and the ones that look the best to test.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> I have never had the heavy metal done on live goat as CAHFS wants a liver or kidney. My dead goats that have been necropsied have always been on the low side for copper. They do copper with the trace mineral screen but the blood test is not as accurate. I always do the selenium too. My biggest offenders are selenium, and copper, and sometimes zinc. I pick the goats that look the worst and the ones that look the best to test.



The test details section says they can use blood or urine for the heavy metals test...apparently they also do feed. That's just the only test ive seen that covers cobalt on their list. Since they play together i am thinking if your low in copper your also low in cobalt but that could be completely wrong.


----------



## misfitmorgan

DH finally let agreed to let me sell Ruger. I listed him for sale at 3pm on tuesday and he was sold within 2hrs, and picked up last night. I'm sad to see him go but excited i can go out and do things in the barn alone again and not have to worry about him being a butt. Missy and Lucy are suppose to be leaving this weekend as they are both sold and just on hold but we shall see.


----------



## NH homesteader

Well that's a relief.  No sense in having an unsafe animal around. He went fast!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yes he did..i sold him for $75 because he is a butt. The guy that got him is breeding his 5 nigerians and then taking him to auction. He is approx 300lbs with horns over a foot long so time for him to go. My polled buck should be ready to breed next fall and in the mean time the mini nubian buck is still here if i need to breed something but atm everyone should be bred who is gonna get bred.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

OH my goodness!   He's breeding a 300lb buck to Nigerians?


----------



## NH homesteader

Kinda scared me too


----------



## misfitmorgan

frustratedearthmother said:


> OH my goodness!   He's breeding a 300lb buck to Nigerians?





NH homesteader said:


> Kinda scared me too



 Don't worry he is actually a gentle breeding buck and does fine breeding small goats. He bred all of our mini's more then once and our nigerians when we had them. i was working on mini-alpines and on continuing breeding my mini lamancha's(when we still had a nigerian buck) but i found out quickly there is no market for it here and my hands cant take milking the tiny teats. i only worked on mini's on the side of my full size goats for roughly 2yrs after that every goat we had was bred by Ruger. No problems with in-breeding because the only females he ever produced were from the mini's  and all the males were sold for 4-h or pets.


----------



## NH homesteader

Haha I was more concerned about little goats kidding gigantic babies.


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Haha I was more concerned about little goats kidding gigantic babies.



Nope they kid tiny babies...and they are the cutest things ever. First time i saw our nigerian have pure nigie babies(when we first got her) i couldnt believe they were alive and real. The cross kids are way closer to mini or nigie size then standard size, even full grown our one mini mancha/alpine cross doe was only approx 30lbs and maybe 16inches tall.


----------



## TAH

We had friends that had a Boer buck brake into there ND pen and breed one of the females, 5 months later she had a 9 pound doling. They had to put her down during the delivery. It was pretty sad, she was a very good looking do and had been there first goat in there herd under there name to be  a finished champion.


----------



## misfitmorgan

These are F1 Nigerian X Alpine babies at approx a week old. Mom is Lucy and in the pic, dad was Ruger.


 
This was some of our nigerian herd...the really fluffy thing on the right middle is a pygmy wether. The far back right is the nigie x alpine from the first pic at 7-8 months old


 
This is DH holding that same goat


This was our nigie buck


 
The white goat in front is the mini mancha x alpine i was talking about..see how big the chickens look! that is her full grown.


 
This is a set of mini mancha X alpine triplets...that is Lucy's leg in the picture and 2 of 3 had ears.


----------



## misfitmorgan

TAH said:


> We had friends that had a Boer buck brake into there ND pen and breed one of the females, 5 months later she had a 9 pound doling. They had to put her down during the delivery. It was pretty sad, she was a very good looking do and had been there first goat in there herd under there name to be  a finished champion.



A boer buck i would be worried about, they make very stocky and thick bodied kids compared to alpines.. alpines are wirey and long legged usually.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I AI'ed Eva for the first time yesterday, she wasnt to sure but took it pretty well. We will be giving her dose number two today. I decided to go with a Landrace Boar and this is the boy we used. http://shaffergoldrush.com/boar_detail.php?boar=185

The next breeding for Sarah will be this guy http://shaffergoldrush.com/boar_detail.php?boar=256

Then i wanna get some hereford semen.


----------



## Bruce

What ARE you doing back there Mom???


----------



## Baymule

Those are some meaty looking boars!

Then i wanna get some hereford semen.

The things we have on our wish list.........

Dear Santa,
I've been real good this year. I want 10 straws of Hereford semen. I will leave out the nitrogen tank and a plate of cookies.


----------



## NH homesteader




----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> What ARE you doing back there Mom???



haha she was curious until she got "in the mood" then she didnt care.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Those are some meaty looking boars!
> 
> Then i wanna get some hereford semen.
> 
> The things we have on our wish list.........
> 
> Dear Santa,
> I've been real good this year. I want 10 straws of Hereford semen. I will leave out the nitrogen tank and a plate of cookies.



No kidding lol. Interestingly you dont need a nitrogen tank for pigs, we use fresh semen it come in a bottle or pouch and is good for 7 days. Arn't those boars some gorgeous boys!!

The funniest part was hearing my mom on the phone when i told her she was getting a delivery of boar semen by noon tomorrow(saturday) morning. I had to say it 3 times  and then she said why????? i said how else am i gonna make the pig pregnant? We usually plan better and get it delivered during the week but i was worried i was gonna miss her heat this month so i hurried up and had it delivered on Saturday and UPS doesnt deliver to my area on Saturdays.

Eva got her second AI dose last night and she took it better then the first so im hoping for a good litter. Lost almost no semen this time, maybe 10 drips.


----------



## NH homesteader

I finally got the pictures to load.  Wow show pig muscle! Lol! I forget,  what breeds are your girls? 

I have told my (non farmer)  mother some very strange things...  But having pig semen arrive in the mail... That is a whole new level she could not handle!


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> I finally got the pictures to load.  Wow show pig muscle! Lol! I forget,  what breeds are your girls?
> 
> I have told my (non farmer)  mother some very strange things...  But having pig semen arrive in the mail... That is a whole new level she could not handle!



Eva is Berk/hamp cross, Sarah is duroc, Red is hereford/berk and Spot is berk/bluebutt. DH wants Landrace pigs and we cant find any anyplace near us except one guy who raises about 300 a year and will only sell you a barrow...all gilts go directly to the slaughter house transported by him, when you order pork by the lb. So i ordered landrace semen for him. Eva and Sarah are not related so i will AI her with landrace as well then we will hold back a a few gilts from each litter and AI them with landrace again which will get us up to 75% landrace and then repeat again and keep a boar and a few gilts and that will give him a high percentage landrace line. In the mean time Eva's next litter after this one will be hereford and Sarah's will be duroc. Sarah's current litter is duroc/berk/hamp and we are holding back the one gilt from her litter to see how she grows out. DH wants to breed Red and Spot back to berk and do a similar process to make a high percentage berk line. Eventually we want to get into registered show pigs but thats a few years down the road.


----------



## NH homesteader

Nice.  We are going to breed our gilts to a Berkshire/Duroc. Excited to see what happens there.  We aren't in love with  the Landrace pigs,  they're more of a bacon type right? Love Berks though. 

Hey random question,  do you up protein over the winter? Or just feed more? I've only had feeder pigs in the warm months! Have 3 little ones now,  one of which was a runt so I want to make sure they stay warm!


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Nice.  We are going to breed our gilts to a Berkshire/Duroc. Excited to see what happens there.  We aren't in love with  the Landrace pigs,  they're more of a bacon type right? Love Berks though.
> 
> Hey random question,  do you up protein over the winter? Or just feed more? I've only had feeder pigs in the warm months! Have 3 little ones now,  one of which was a runt so I want to make sure they stay warm!



i'm not in love with landrace but they grow fast, have large litters, sows/gilts usually have an extra set of functioning teats, they have an extra set of ribs so you get more ribs, more bacon per pig and a larger longer loin. Landrace is "the" commercial pig, when you buy pork in the store 99% of the time it is from a landrace pig. I will point out the flavor of store pork is in how they are raised and fed and not something bred into them per say. A landrace pasture raised and fed good food will taste as good as most any other pastured pig.

We do not. We feed the same base feed year round. Our barn always stay roughly 15-20 degrees warmer then outside. We feed a base measurement of 5lb per pig if a pig is looking to thin we up it to 6lbs and then to 7lbs if needed generally un-bred and not in lactation our sows only require 5lbs/day. We do feed other things as we have them though house scraps, goat milk, bread, eggs, powdered milk, old canned goods, old beans. We also grow squashes or pumpkins for the livestock that we feed them during winter/fall so they can have something fresh and the seeds supposedly help with parasites. In the dead of winter i i usually sprout some oats for all the livestock so they can have something fresh and green


----------



## misfitmorgan

Vet called earlier today and told me to go ahead and dose the herd with ivermectin but they didnt see any serious parasite loads. I bought up lack of cobalt with her which is when she said to dose with ivermectin cause she said if they are lacking and looking poorly a parasite bloom could easily take them out, she also agreed if i can get cobalt bolus to give it a try and it shouldn't hurt them since it is slow release for 3yrs and to give another copper bolus to everyone since it has been 6 months since the last.


----------



## NH homesteader

Landrace have an extra set of ribs? Weird, I had never heard that.  They use Yorkshires commercially too right? 

My pigs are the least bothered by the snow of all my animals.  They've been out rooting all day. I think with 3 of them they should stay warm. They're like little heaters!


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Landrace have an extra set of ribs? Weird, I had never heard that.  They use Yorkshires commercially too right?
> 
> My pigs are the least bothered by the snow of all my animals.  They've been out rooting all day. I think with 3 of them they should stay warm. They're like little heaters!



Pigs have 16 ribs landrace can have 16 or 17 depending on the lines your breeding. Yep yorks are used commercially too, i forgot about them....most commercial pork farms use landrace at least in Iowa and Iowa produces around 40% of all US pork, Nc has the other 40%.


----------



## misfitmorgan

We had a good holiday here and I hope everyone else's went well! DH and i both had a 4 day weekend so we were really looking forward to getting a lot of stuff done in the barn....and then. DH turned up with tonsillitis wednesday night, so i got him on some anitbotics. We stoked up the fire and put the dogs up and headed to my mom's house wedneday night.

I got up thursday morning and got turkey day dinner going...DH slept for many many hours which leads me the believe he felt worse then he was letting on. After turkey day dinner i went with my brother and SIL to walmart and dunham's sporting goods for black friday sales...DH stayed at my mom's because he hates shopping and didnt wanna go. I picked up a new laptop for $249 which so far is really nice and i love and my first touch screen pc which is cool. I also bought DH and myself new cell phones, we got the samsung galaxy luna phones but they only had one case for that phone left so i didnt activate mine yet. DH really needed a new phone though his wasnt working right anymore. I also bought DH a lead sled for a early christmas gift at the sporting goods store. I got back to my mom's and DH decided it was time to go so we left and he wanted to go back to the sporting goods place because i told him they had a bunch of ammo on sale. He picked up some .22 long ammo and a very not cheap box of .44X40 ammo, though he did say it was $40 less then the last box he had bought.

We got home thrusday night around midnight. Got chores done and were shocked there was a really nice bed of coals in the woodstove still. Got up friday morning and DH had a stuffed up ear and puss draining from his tear duct on one side. I gave him hot compresses for both and it helped a lot within about 4hrs. We went and did chores and got some of the very over-due barn cleaning done.

Then my brother called and invited us up to his house to spend the night and go hunting saturday, DH REALLLLY wanted to go. We stoked up the fire again and put the dogs up and headed to my brothers at about 8:30pm. Went out hunting Saturday morning and evening but we didnt see any deer where we could actually shoot them...so no venison for our freezer yet. DH spent 90% of all of saturday when were were not out hunting...sleeping and he forgot to take his antibotics along. Got home from my brothers at 1am Sunday morning. Did chores, let dogs out etc etc.

I got up Sunday morning to.....tonsillitis after i kept telling DH not to kiss me because i didnt want it and he kept saying you will be fine. So i had plans to clean more of the barn sunday but our friend Kevin came over and needed DH to help him catch a dozen geese at someone elses house..so DH took off to help with that and i...kinda....feel asleep...for 3.5hrs 
DH got home at 4pm and went to sit and hope deer showed up....no luck. I cleaned up the house and made him some dinner, did laundry, and basically felt like poo. I was also angry mostly at myself that hardly anything got done in the barn. 

Also the cobalt arrived on saturday and wow are those things HUGE!! i have to pick up a larger balling gun from TSC today or tomorrow. I was expecting them to be the size of the adult copper bolus' boy was i wrong. So my plan is to give it to one poorly looking goat and see if she looks better in 10 days or not....if she does the whole herd is getting it.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Ugh - so sorry about the tonsillitis.  That stinks!


----------



## misfitmorgan

frustratedearthmother said:


> Ugh - so sorry about the tonsillitis.  That stinks!



i know it sucks....i told DH you are not kissing me anymore when you are sick....he gave me the "oh you think so" look


----------



## NH homesteader

Hope you get better soon! My husband and I avoid each other when one of us is sick haha.  I guess I prefer a lack of affection to being very sick! 

My daughter has a terrible cold.  Which means I'll be next!


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Hope you get better soon! My husband and I avoid each other when one of us is sick haha.  I guess I prefer a lack of affection to being very sick!
> 
> My daughter has a terrible cold.  Which means I'll be next!



DH has gotten sick twice this fall/winter so far and both times i had it 2-3 days later <---i should get this for DH


----------



## babsbag

Sorry about getting sick, rotten time of year for that.  I hope you get better quickly.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Sorry about getting sick, rotten time of year for that.  I hope you get better quickly.



Thanks much!

Extra sucks cause it has been nice and warm here in the 40s and 50s mostly and no snow...yet


----------



## Latestarter

Silly man of yours... putting his desires above what's best for you... I suggest eating mass quantities of garlic, maybe with some raw onion as a chaser   Hope you get over it quickly. Maybe you should make him do all your chores in return for him making you sick. I mean you need your rest, right?   Hope you recover too NH


----------



## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Silly man of yours... putting his desires above what's best for you... I suggest eating mass quantities of garlic, maybe with some raw onion as a chaser   Hope you get over it quickly. Maybe you should make him do all your chores in return for him making you sick. I mean you need your rest, right?   Hope you recover too NH



He wouldnt give to figs about onions and garlic lol...he loves them! I'm mostly better now. You dont get off chores for being sick lol, would be nice if we did. I tried telling the livestock we were both sick and they would need to get their own hay out of the loft and their own grain in a responsible fashion but they just gave me the what are you talking about crazy human look.

Things have been busy here per usual. DH spent yesterday after work changing a wheel bearing on the trailblazer. I finally got a balling gun for the cobalt on Monday but didnt get DH's help to dose a goat until late last night so White May got a dose of cobalt since she looked the worse. If it works i dont know how to give it to the young does...they only weigh maybe 45lbs at most and the cobalt says 50lbs or more to dose. They should be weighing a lot more by now, the new buck is much bigger then them but the same age..but still not the size he should be. He weighs enough to be dosed.

Still need to finish cleaning the barn and get the changes i wanna make done. We need to build two more permanent stall faces and then we will have the north wall of the barn stalls done and the south side to do still. We also need to build a wall in the barn to mount the hay feeders and grain feeders, as well as make a gate for the wall. I will see if i can draw something up to show you all what i mean.

I think winter finally arrived....yay.....NOT! No snow accumulation yet thankfully.


----------



## babsbag

Is the cobalt in a capsule where you can break it open and divide it up? I do that with copper. You can buy empty gelatin capsules and fill them to make smaller doses.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Is the cobalt in a capsule where you can break it open and divide it up? I do that with copper. You can buy empty gelatin capsules and fill them to make smaller doses.


It is in a capsule but it is just a solid hunk of metal so i would have to saw it in half or something but even then it is a 3yr dose so i dont know the exact dose and if sawing it up would make it half strength or half life. When i ordered it i thought it would be rods like the copper is but nope just a big hunk of metal-like stuff.


----------



## babsbag

3 year dose is only for kids. Breeding animals get it every year. The directions are a little misleading. 

Easy to use bolus...who are they fooling. A goat owner knows better than that.


_This product is for use in goats and sheep only. For goats and sheep over 3 months of age and weighing over 50 lbs, administer 1 bolus every 3 years. *Breeding animals may be given 1 bolus every year.*_


----------



## norseofcourse

Glad you are feeling better!  Hope the cobalt helps your goats.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> 3 year dose is only for kids. Breeding animals get it every year. The directions are a little misleading.
> 
> Easy to use bolus...who are they fooling. A goat owner knows better than that.
> 
> 
> _This product is for use in goats and sheep only. For goats and sheep over 3 months of age and weighing over 50 lbs, administer 1 bolus every 3 years. *Breeding animals may be given 1 bolus every year.*_



This is on the one i got:
_For goats and sheep over 3 months of age and weighing over 50 lbs, administer 1 bolus every 3 years. Sheep may be dosed yearly on veterinary advice. Administer the capsule orally with a suitable balling gun._

The little does are over 3 months old but less then a year old and less then 50lbs so still not sure if i should risk dosing them anyway or not.



norseofcourse said:


> Glad you are feeling better!  Hope the cobalt helps your goats.


Thank you, i hope so too.


----------



## babsbag

So it says that sheep can be dosed yearly and not goats?  Are they the Ultra-Cruz boluses?  Very misleading website as the product description says one thing and the directions say another. 

It also says this on their site. 
_Under most conditions, these boluses provide 12 months of sustained Cobalt supplementation.
_
*VERY CONFUSING.*

I guess I have some concerns about giving the same bolus to a 50 pound goat as I would a 150lb goat. Also a breeding animal would most likely need more than a non breeding and a goat in milk would probably need more than any of them.  I have thought about getting a block and see if they use it but I'll skip the bolus for now. I used to do copper that way but have switched over to injections. Bolusing 40 goats is not fun.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> So it says that sheep can be dosed yearly and not goats?  Are they the Ultra-Cruz boluses?  Very misleading website as the product description says one thing and the directions say another.
> 
> It also says this on their site.
> _Under most conditions, these boluses provide 12 months of sustained Cobalt supplementation.
> _
> *VERY CONFUSING.*
> 
> I guess I have some concerns about giving the same bolus to a 50 pound goat as I would a 150lb goat. Also a breeding animal would most likely need more than a non breeding and a goat in milk would probably need more than any of them.  I have thought about getting a block and see if they use it but I'll skip the bolus for now. I used to do copper that way but have switched over to injections. Bolusing 40 goats is not fun.



Yep i got Ultra-Cruz


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> So it says that sheep can be dosed yearly and not goats?  Are they the Ultra-Cruz boluses?  Very misleading website as the product description says one thing and the directions say another.
> 
> It also says this on their site.
> _Under most conditions, these boluses provide 12 months of sustained Cobalt supplementation.
> _
> *VERY CONFUSING.*
> 
> I guess I have some concerns about giving the same bolus to a 50 pound goat as I would a 150lb goat. Also a breeding animal would most likely need more than a non breeding and a goat in milk would probably need more than any of them.  I have thought about getting a block and see if they use it but I'll skip the bolus for now. I used to do copper that way but have switched over to injections. Bolusing 40 goats is not fun.



There is a copper injection? I wonder if they have one for cobalt


----------



## misfitmorgan

I must sadly and loathsomely report that i think winter is finally upon us as we got 4 inches of snow over night with a nice layer of ice underneath. Luckily we did not get hit as bad as some other areas that got up to 10" but i still hate it  If it stays warm enough to keep the water in the barn thawed out for a few more weeks at least i will be ok with it though. We are behind on getting the barn set for winter and will be working on that today as we have some windows to cover and we need to put the water tanks on some wood and put wood board behind the tanks/tap. The eventual goal is to build a platform for the tanks and a insulated wall behind the water tap to help it not freeze for longer since atm it is all cement which transfers the cold really well. We will also need to drill a new hole thru the concrete next to the existing water tape and cement in a piece of drain pipe to run a no-freeze tap thru...the current tap is a regular garden hose looking thing and is cemented directly into the concrete


----------



## misfitmorgan

Well...i made the mistake of checking the weather report.

Tonight 1-2" of snowfall    Temp 9F
Thursday flurries   Temp High 19F Overnight 8F 1" of snowfall
Friday 1-3" snowfall   Temp High 20F Overnight 15F 3-6" of snowfall
Saturday 1-3" snowfall   Temp High 26F Overnight 9F 
And flurries on Sunday with High 18F/ Low 4F

So by Sunday morning we will have another 7-15" of snow.


----------



## TAH

were same up her...huh!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Holy cow!  We were in the mid-high 70's yesterday.  S'posed to get 'cold' tomorrow with a high of 56ish.


----------



## NH homesteader

Thursday night temperature - 5, Friday's high is 6.

I'd rather have snow!


----------



## misfitmorgan

i would take 3 days of cold over 15" of snow any day!!

Supposedly long term forecast this is suppose to be the coldest week of winter for us this year...somehow i dont believe them lol.


----------



## babsbag

misfitmorgan said:


> Supposedly long term forecast this is suppose to be the coldest week of winter for us this year...somehow i dont believe them lol.



Today we are supposed to have 55 MPH winds and 3-6" of rain. It is doing none of the above. So I'm not sure I would believe your weather forecast either.


----------



## babsbag

frustratedearthmother said:


> Holy cow! We were in the mid-high 70's yesterday. S'posed to get 'cold' tomorrow with a high of 56ish.



Now you even got me jealous and that is pretty hard to do to a Cali girl.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> Now you even got me jealous and that is pretty hard to do to a Cali girl.



We're yo-yoing right now....   cool tomorrow and then back in mid - upper 70's for the weekend.  I'm okay with that!   (but highs in the 40's early next week)   I'm gonna freeze!


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## babsbag

Our highs have been high 40's mid 50's for a few weeks now. I am ready for summer.


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh nooooo - no summer for awhile.  Our heat indexes in the 115s - 120's this past summer near 'bout killed me.  I'll take this any day!


----------



## misfitmorgan

frustratedearthmother said:


> Holy cow!  We were in the mid-high 70's yesterday.  S'posed to get 'cold' tomorrow with a high of 56ish.



As much as most of us Northern folk complain about the temps and snow it is all relative, we dont get anything over 100F here usually...it would be nice to have "cold" stay above freezing temps though. The water has been frozen in the barn for 3 days and yesterday when i got home the house water had frozen which made the well house freeze  We tried for 4 hrs to thaw everything out, we got the well house thawed out but the house and the barn are still frozen.  Last night was 6F and -16F with the windchill, today's high is atm forecasted at 19F so i hope it is warm enough to get water moving in the house when we get home after work, if not we will have to wait until tomorrow or saturday when it will be warmer. Saturday is forecasted at 29F for daytime high so it would be the best shot at getting water going again otherwise we have to wait until the 21st. We can keep the well house thawed out so it wont be horrible and we can water livestock still and my friend lets us go to her house and use her shower and washer when our water freezes for a few days. We normally dont freeze up until January or Febuary though.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Today we are supposed to have 55 MPH winds and 3-6" of rain. It is doing none of the above. So I'm not sure I would believe your weather forecast either.



I hope it completely misses us....ironically a nice bank of snow along the back side of the house helps insulate us from the West wind's which is kinda nice.


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## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear that you have frozen water , hope you get it thawed soon


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## NH homesteader

Eww I hate that.  My guess is I'll have the same problem tomorrow. Guess I should fill some water buckets for the animals at least.


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## misfitmorgan

Hens and Roos said:


> sorry to hear that you have frozen water , hope you get it thawed soon



Me too!! The sun is out, maybe it will end up warmer then their forecasted 19F today 



NH homesteader said:


> Eww I hate that.  My guess is I'll have the same problem tomorrow. Guess I should fill some water buckets for the animals at least.



We keep a 55 gallon barrel filled with water in the barn in case we cant get the water un-frozen, if we keep it in the middle of the barn it doesnt freeze solid. Having the hay in the loft above the animals really helps to insulate and keep the animals body heat in. So far this year it has been 10-15 degrees warmer in there then outside...once we finish getting it winterized it should stay even warmer then that.


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## Bruce

Um, sounds like something you want to fix! Can't be good for the pipes to freeze. Even if they don't rupture "this" time, they must be getting weakened each time the water expands as it freezes.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Um, sounds like something you want to fix! Can't be good for the pipes to freeze. Even if they don't rupture "this" time, they must be getting weakened each time the water expands as it freezes.



Nope it's 100% Pex so no problem freezing repeatedly..worst case a fitting pops loose and you have to re-clamp it. There are only two fittings under the house total, one straight connector to the main line comming in and one elbow right under the floor....it freezes at the elbow every stupid time. We have heat tape on all the pipe under the house and water line insulation over that, and a wrap insulation over that and floor insulation over that....and it still manages to freeze. Yesterday it froze with the water running but it froze in the well house so the water stopped moving and froze in the elbow.

We need to go get insulation and insulate the well house better. It was fully insulated but the previous owners let it freeze and bust the PVC pipes out there and then thaw on its own so the entire inside of the well-house was soaking wet, multiple times. It rotted the floor and the insulation was saturated and got moldy. DH took out all the worst of the insulation this spring but we never got the new insulation put up because first we need to put down a new wood floor. So i think the plan is gonna be augmented to throwing a couple sheets of OSB on the floor so we can walk in there safely and then putting up the insulation.

I'm not sure who built this well house but they were insane, first of all it is not a real well it is a cistern well...so a giant open hole in the ground full of water. The only thing that separates you from falling in the well is one sheet of OSB that currently is soft and sags up and down wherever you walk on it from water rotting it for years. Then they built a shed on top of it, a full height 8ft ceiling shed....then they put in two trailor type large windows and a trailer house type door with a large window in it. Then like R-9 insulation on the walls only and one light bulb on the ceiling stud...then they added two vents up by the roof line that go outside for good measure. They also build it on the side of the house that gets full and pretty much constant West wind. I dont understand how they though this thing had a prayer of staying above freezing.

So add new floor and new insulation to the list of things to do. Here is the part that truely annoys me...we will be having a new well drilled in the spring so i have no idea what to do with this little building that sits over a large hole full of water. DH says we can use it for a garden shed..which would be logical if it was close to the garden...as is not so much.


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## NH homesteader

We also have Pex.  Need to put more heat tape on it.  Does heat tape have a shelf life? Ours totally quit working.  

That sounds terribly dangerous! I'm terrified of wells like that. Or holes in the ground like that,  lol.  Of course my 4 year old daughter is the primary reason I'm scared of them but still.


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> We also have Pex.  Need to put more heat tape on it.  Does heat tape have a shelf life? Ours totally quit working.
> 
> That sounds terribly dangerous! I'm terrified of wells like that. Or holes in the ground like that,  lol.  Of course my 4 year old daughter is the primary reason I'm scared of them but still.



It does but depends on brand. We have had cheaper heat tape that worked for 8yrs that they no longer make that we can find...it was all black. ATM we have 3 different runs of the Orange kind with the black thermostat and it has a 5yr warranty so i imagine about 5yrs on that kind lol. We did have a blue kind but it only worked for 2 winters.  So far the orange is on its 3rd winter.

Oh im scared for myself lol. DH and i both have a fear of drowning in general though his is worse then mine. Technically open top or cistern wells are illegal in michigan but ours is grandfathered in. We both hate going in the well house. i was perfectly fine going in there until the one day he opened the trap door and shined a light down in the giant hole. I did not realize it was a cistern well until that point. I had assumed it was over/under well...meaning the well was under the well house and closest off except for a 8-12" metal pipe that the black pipe for the pump goes into, the pump and pressure tank live above ground in a well house. Noooooo this is just a giant hole..literally.

They dug down about 7ft and built cinderblock walls and continued those walls up a foot above grade, then built a floor and walls on top of that. So if you went thru the floor anyplace your going down into the well...even scarier is that the WOODEN ladder someone built inside the cistern to be able to go down there and clean or whatever is so old and rotten that you wouldnt be able to use it and there is no other way out. So yeah it scares me a lot.

The new well will be a modern well with a small short well house over it and completely closed except for the pipe that comes out of the ground to feed the above ground pump.


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## NH homesteader

That's terrifying! I wouldn't ever go in there,  lol! 

Mine lasted 3 years...  Guess I need to get some good stuff this time around!


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> That's terrifying! I wouldn't ever go in there,  lol!
> 
> Mine lasted 3 years...  Guess I need to get some good stuff this time around!



I hold my breath every time i walk in there lol

We found out with heat tape it is only marginally different in price between the 3ft and the 30ft....3ft is $25 and 30ft is $42 so $17 for 10 times more. We own a 30ft and two 12ft. This is the kind we have atm https://www.doitbest.com/products/549932


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## Bruce

I wouldn't be to comfortable with constantly freezing and thawing PEX. Yes it can take more than copper or PVC but it is still taking a hit everytime it freezes. And blowing a fitting instead of rupturing the "pipe" still makes a big mess, it is just easier to fix 

Given a choice I would prefer that wellhouse be on the south side so the sun can warm it. But there is no windchill in it due to the constant west winds. The temp inside will be the same as the temp outside (barring any sun warming). I bet you do get some good "clippers" given your location!!

I'm sure the new drilled well will ease your life and concerns substantially. New source pipe below frost level all the way under the house!

Now what is wrong with a nice "open" well?? The contractors found this one when they were excavating to replace the foundation under the north building of the house. Covered with a large and very heavy piece of sheet steel and a bunch of what I think are drift cutters. I SO wish it had been 15' farther (it was not even 2') from the house, we could have put a nice little well and bucket house over it. I don't even know how someone builds a well like this. It was ~13' deep with 7' of water in it. How do you get rid of the water so you can build up all the stone??

 

The guy that lives in the property south of us grew up in this house. When his father died in 1999 the house was sold (I think he already lived next door. His 10 acres used to be part of this property). I asked if he knew about the well and he did. There is another similar one (not as deep or nearly as nicely made) out in the woods north of the NW field. And there is a square cement one between the pond and the natural wetland to the north. I really don't understand this one. Not sure what that square in the upper left is. I can imagine the pipe coming in from the left would be "source" since that direction is uphill. But the one going out to the right?? Seems like one wouldn't want the water to go out. There is a fitting of some sort on the pipe, I ASSUME for the pump (probably manual) but that pipe clearly goes through the wall. In the spring it can be full to the top, later in summer, quite dry.



The drilled well, right in front of the house, was done in 1979. That must have been a spectacular day for the family.


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## babsbag

PEX makes a mess when it gets chewed through by a mouse too. 

Those wells are creepy. I think I would be filling them in with concrete and forgetting that they were ever there. Our well is 300' deep so no way would it be an open well. 

We get maybe one good "frozen pipe" kind of freeze here every year but honestly I will take my hot weather over this stupid cold anytime. I can always go swimming when it's hot. Plus there is no mud and and I have an 8 month growing season for my garden.  I really enjoy my "no rain" summers too.


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## Bruce

I guess, for completeness, I should mention that the contractors filled in that beautiful well.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I wouldn't be to comfortable with constantly freezing and thawing PEX. Yes it can take more than copper or PVC but it is still taking a hit everytime it freezes. And blowing a fitting instead of rupturing the "pipe" still makes a big mess, it is just easier to fix
> 
> Given a choice I would prefer that wellhouse be on the south side so the sun can warm it. But there is no windchill in it due to the constant west winds. The temp inside will be the same as the temp outside (barring any sun warming). I bet you do get some good "clippers" given your location!!
> 
> I'm sure the new drilled well will ease your life and concerns substantially. New source pipe below frost level all the way under the house!
> 
> Now what is wrong with a nice "open" well?? The contractors found this one when they were excavating to replace the foundation under the north building of the house. Covered with a large and very heavy piece of sheet steel and a bunch of what I think are drift cutters. I SO wish it had been 15' farther (it was not even 2') from the house, we could have put a nice little well and bucket house over it. I don't even know how someone builds a well like this. It was ~13' deep with 7' of water in it. How do you get rid of the water so you can build up all the stone??
> View attachment 25367 View attachment 25368
> 
> The guy that lives in the property south of us grew up in this house. When his father died in 1999 the house was sold (I think he already lived next door. His 10 acres used to be part of this property). I asked if he knew about the well and he did. There is another similar one (not as deep or nearly as nicely made) out in the woods north of the NW field. And there is a square cement one between the pond and the natural wetland to the north. I really don't understand this one. Not sure what that square in the upper left is. I can imagine the pipe coming in from the left would be "source" since that direction is uphill. But the one going out to the right?? Seems like one wouldn't want the water to go out. There is a fitting of some sort on the pipe, I ASSUME for the pump (probably manual) but that pipe clearly goes through the wall. In the spring it can be full to the top, later in summer, quite dry.
> 
> View attachment 25369
> 
> The drilled well, right in front of the house, was done in 1979. That must have been a spectacular day for the family.



If a fitting blows it is under the house and doesnt do any damage worth worrying about. Also..no way to stop it from freezing that is why we re-plumbed with PEX when we moved on the place.

I didnt mean that the windchill was affecting the well house inside  They put it on the west side of the house, and those vents i mentioned up at the roof line they put those going east-west too....so the wind whips thru the well house ceiling stealing any possible heat you might have in there. Because it is an open top well it normally would keep the well house above freezing because the well water doesnt freeze, but since the heat wind blows any warmth out it freezes. We covered the vents but the windows are trailer house type windows...single pane glass and the west window does not seal all the way, so we put insulation over the windows and a board over that to stop the draft which was directly on the well pump/pressure tank. Basically whoever built it is a moron....and the well house is only 12yrs old..it should not be in this condition if it had been taken care of at all or more thoughtfully planned out. We also dont really get sun here in winter so that wouldnt matter much, we get approx 170 days of sunshine/year and most of those are in summer/fall.

There is also no house for the new source pipe to go under per say. It's a trailer so the pipe just goes underground and then comes back under the trailer thru a cement slab. It's also not real source pipe it's some sort of irrigation piping.

To dig an old-timey well the guy started digging in the spot he wanted the well or the spot he was told to dig, when he couldnt throw the dirt out of the hole anymore they would lower a buckets and a bucket of dirt at a time would be taken out...on and on they would go until the hole starting filling with water and then they bucketed out buckets of water and buckets of mud..on and on until they got the depth of standing water they wanted. Then they would rock up the sides and tada a well.

The square cement box.....is a cistern well. A normal old well has no bottom and the water filters up from the bottom and thru the rock walls. A cistern well is a "water-tight" vessel ment to hold water in reserve when needed, cistern wells are filled by rainwater, runoff water, surface water, or like ours an artisan well. There is likely another 1 or 2 of those cement boxes on the property, ment to hold water for the dry seasons i would assume. Typically one cement box collects the water from whatever and then is piped into another cement box which is used either by hooking that box to a pump or having an open top and bucketing it out.

Like at our house we have a cement capped cement well over an artisan well by our driveway in the front yard, then a pipe goes under ground from that cement box to under the well house behind the trailer and into that cement box, to be used by the house. Cistern wells for drinking water are illegal here now because of the possible contaminants as the water is not filtered by the ground.


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> PEX makes a mess when it gets chewed through by a mouse too.
> 
> Those wells are creepy. I think I would be filling them in with concrete and forgetting that they were ever there. Our well is 300' deep so no way would it be an open well.
> 
> We get maybe one good "frozen pipe" kind of freeze here every year but honestly I will take my hot weather over this stupid cold anytime. I can always go swimming when it's hot. Plus there is no mud and and I have an 8 month growing season for my garden.  I really enjoy my "no rain" summers too.



So far no mice chewing on it....i like your warm weather better too! That's why i used to take a trip to Calie every winter.


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## Bruce

Interesting. I wonder if there is another cistern well down in the wetland and that is what the north pipe goes to. I've never mucked about in there. If there is one, the wooden cover has likely rotted away long ago since it is wet in there pretty much spring until winter. I didn't check this year during the dry time when the pond was shrinking. Could be it dried some then.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Interesting. I wonder if there is another cistern well down in the wetland and that is what the north pipe goes to. I've never mucked about in there. If there is one, the wooden cover has likely rotted away long ago since it is wet in there pretty much spring until winter. I didn't check this year during the dry time when the pond was shrinking. Could be it dried some then.



It's quite possible, i have never seen a cistern well not come in at least pairs. The other cistern would be someplace it gets a lot of water. How deep was the cement one you found? There is typically one deep cement box and one much more shallow. The box on the artisan well is only about 4-5ft deep and goes back to the cistern well which is 12ft deep...so that automatically makes your grade for you so that you can use gravity to pump the artisan well water into our cistern well. DH corrected me he said its more like 12ft deep cause it goes down 4ft before it hits water and he said there should be at least 6 ft of water in it and typically they are at least 12ft deep. Cistern is just a fancy way of saying a giant holding tank. I definitely would not be walking around randomly looking for a open well. You do have a bit of a clue though since you can see the hoses and odds of them cooming off the well and taking a 90 degree turn are not high.

I forgot too the little square should be where the artisian well is or where the ground water comes in, its to let water in pretty much. Some places used to make chains of these shallow cisterns so they could store thousands of gallons of water for dry seasons. If they dug down for a cistern and the whole filled up with "good" water they would leave that bottom opening to collect more water as long as it was not the/a "holding" cistern. The tanks at the end of the run that are ment to do nothing but hold water only have the tubes that go into them and one coming out for using the water. Cement boxes at the beginning of the chain only have a tube going out. The ones that were in use until just a few decades ago usually will have a cement cover over them if they are not in/under a structure.


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## Bruce

There isn't currently a cistern south (uphill) of the one I posted. I had thought maybe at one point there was an actual controlled overflow for the pond that fed in through the pipe on the south end of the cistern. If there IS a cistern to the south, it has to be at ground level, maybe filled in? Al has mowed over that whole area and his tractor didn't disappear. And I've mowed over it with my garden tractor, didn't lose it either  I would guess it is 10' to 12' deep. Maybe 6' or 8' square? I never thought about it much. It has a sloped metal roof (wood framed) with a square "cap" that I took off to get the picture. Great info on that square hole in the bottom being the "inlet" for ground water. 

I suppose another possibility is that the pond was built to replace an older cistern? There is a "sometimes spring" in the south end which is all ledge. Al doesn't know when the pond was built. He is pushing 70 and his great uncle owned this house until the mid 50's. Al grew up on his grandfather's (then his father's) farm up the road. He and his wife own the farm now. Back then the first 3/4 mile of road was those 2 farms. In years passed (many) his father leased and hayed the fields, his dad raised beef cattle. I gather Al hayed the fields for many years.  The guy who bought this place from Al's great uncle didn't farm and some years ago sold about half of the 120 acres to the guy who lives between Al and us. He's put 3 houses on his property. His is up the hill (west) and can't be seen. The other 2 are closer to the road. One visible year round, the other pretty much only in the winter when the leaves are gone. 

With all that TMI, it is possible that the north end of the pond (which was built up to create the pond) could possibly house a cistern. If so I guess I am glad that when I tried to find out how deep it is (near as I can tell NOT VERY!!) in bib waders with a long stick. Sank into the muck to mid boot on the first step. Sank to the top of the other boot on step 2. If the boots weren't attached to the pants, they would still be in the pond when I backed out after that. But I think I would be able to see a square concrete thing unless it is filled in with muck. On a calm day with the sun up and the water getting low, it sure looks pretty flat across the bottom. No idea how the fish and frogs make it through the winter.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> There isn't currently a cistern south (uphill) of the one I posted. I had thought maybe at one point there was an actual controlled overflow for the pond that fed in through the pipe on the south end of the cistern. If there IS a cistern to the south, it has to be at ground level, maybe filled in? Al has mowed over that whole area and his tractor didn't disappear. And I've mowed over it with my garden tractor, didn't lose it either  I would guess it is 10' to 12' deep. Maybe 6' or 8' square? I never thought about it much. It has a sloped metal roof (wood framed) with a square "cap" that I took off to get the picture. Great info on that square hole in the bottom being the "inlet" for ground water.
> 
> I suppose another possibility is that the pond was built to replace an older cistern? There is a "sometimes spring" in the south end which is all ledge. Al doesn't know when the pond was built. He is pushing 70 and his great uncle owned this house until the mid 50's. Al grew up on his grandfather's (then his father's) farm up the road. He and his wife own the farm now. Back then the first 3/4 mile of road was those 2 farms. In years passed (many) his father leased and hayed the fields, his dad raised beef cattle. I gather Al hayed the fields for many years.  The guy who bought this place from Al's great uncle didn't farm and some years ago sold about half of the 120 acres to the guy who lives between Al and us. He's put 3 houses on his property. His is up the hill (west) and can't be seen. The other 2 are closer to the road. One visible year round, the other pretty much only in the winter when the leaves are gone.
> 
> With all that TMI, it is possible that the north end of the pond (which was built up to create the pond) could possibly house a cistern. If so I guess I am glad that when I tried to find out how deep it is (near as I can tell NOT VERY!!) in bib waders with a long stick. Sank into the muck to mid boot on the first step. Sank to the top of the other boot on step 2. If the boots weren't attached to the pants, they would still be in the pond when I backed out after that. But I think I would be able to see a square concrete thing unless it is filled in with muck. On a calm day with the sun up and the water getting low, it sure looks pretty flat across the bottom. No idea how the fish and frogs make it through the winter.



Sorry BYH didnt notify me of this post. If you have a "high" water table on the property it is very possible the pond was put in in place of the cistern. You used to be able to water livestock from surface water so many farmers would  make ponds on their property or purposely fence across streams so their livestock has water access. You have to remember that back in the day there was no way you were going to bucket a few hundred gallons of water from your pump faucet in your kitchen out to the livestock daily. The cistern and even the open wells were not made to withstand that kind of use and would have run the cistern/well dry daily to get livestock water. In warmer climates they of course had things like windmill drawn water tanks but in cold climates like we live in it wasnt reasonable. Be option was ponds/streams, though streams were preferred as running water takes longer to freeze and requires constant colder temps to stay frozen solid.

The real history and lay out of old wells/cisterns can often never be figured out. Some properties have many wells simply because a well went dry or got full of silt at some point and the land owner decided...hey its time for a new well. Even in modern days now because do the same thing because they want either a deep well, a shallow well or even for reasons like trying to get rid of sulfer in their water.


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## misfitmorgan

Eva should be at approx 6 weeks pregnant now.

Sarah's piglets are 12 weeks old now and growing well. The gilt is the least friendly but all are friendly towards people.

The male llama likes me just fine and lets DH hug on him and lean on him, he often follows me around the barn. The female llama has calmed down a lot and lets me feed her grain out of the grain scoop and even has let me touch her face a bit.

Sadly DH's grandfather passed away at 6:56am christmas morning. It was very hard on DH because he was like DH's father to him and DH could not make it out to Iowa in time to say his goodbye in person. 

The people we lease the farm from dropped a $700/month lease on our doorstep about a week and a half ago. The most ironic part is first we just paid for a new well pump...yeah thats coming off the rent for sure...and the entire reason we dont have our loan yet was from them dragging their feet. We were suppose to wait until they had their stuff off the place per the original agreement and now they dont wanna get it off. They flat out told us they are hard up for money so are charging us rent now. DH wanted to knock their heads off he was so livid!! I have conceded to pay one months rent to them after deducting the current taxes and the cost of the well pump so heir first months rent will be $299. The worst they can do is evict us and as soon as the loan goes thru we can move back in. They have no legal recourse to cancel their agreement for us to purchase the property. They could try to take use to court but the amount of things wrong with the place including the well not being to code they would have one heck of a time getting the money from the judge...esp after getting the asking price on the property paid to them. They also can not damage the property as it says they are not allowed to in the sale contract.

The $700/month to rent the place is so laughable it is rediculous. What are we paying $700 for? They do zero maintenance, zero clean up, pay zero bills, we pay property taxes, etc etc....this place is literally not costing them a penny atm. I find it hard to believe a judge would find in their favor after all the documented work we put into the place.


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## Latestarter

Much stranger things have happened, and they are still the owners so have the "right" to charge whatever they want and you have the "right" to refuse and move. justsayin


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## farmerjan

I hope that you have a lawyer that is on your list of knowledgeable people.  I have no idea of what the laws are there....we had been dealing with some stuff in the past here and it took several months with legal help to get it all straightened out and the title to a property  legally filed.  Once it was done, it wasn't long before we sold it as it was a spec buy and we basically made next to nothing on it after the legal stuff. We had had enough and said it was better to be out of it totally since it wasn't a place we wanted to live anyway.  BUT, that has made us VERY careful of any/all  future deals...All I can say is I hope that you can get the financing done and then legally give them X amount of days to get their stuff out/cleaned up and gone and then that is it.  Then they don't have any legal recourse to come back and make sure that is SPECIFICALLY stated in any deal / closing /etc.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Much stranger things have happened, and they are still the owners so have the "right" to charge whatever they want and you have the "right" to refuse and move. justsayin



I would agree except that they waited until 3 days after we paid the property taxes for them...the original agreement was we pay property taxes for rent and fix the place up some/clean the place up...except their stuff in buildings. We have some where around 3k in the house alone, not including the pasture and property improvements, stalls in the barn as well as clean the 2ft of hard packed manure out of the barn. They also provide us with no services, if something breaks they have the not our problem attitude as well as when the water freezes and the drains freeze they expect us to fix it. The septic needs to be emptied and they expect us to pay for that as well. They can not have us act like the land owners and pay everything and then demand an insane amount of rent for a place that is barely fit to live in. I do mean barely as well, the roof leaks in 3 places and again we are expected to fix it or just live with it. We have put 4 buckets of tar on the roof but it makes no difference because we found out they had a roof fire and the boards that should hold the roof up are charred thru and broken so the roof sages down a few inches which is how we found out when DH went to tar it he was like WTH. We have done thousands of dollars worth of work on this place, including paying for 3 huge dumpsters of stuff to be removed from just the outside of the buildings and there is at least 5 more plus what they have in buildings plus the junk that will need to be put on trailers and taken to the junk yard, like 5 boats.

Legally yes they can say they will charge us whatever for rent but legally we can also use our original agreement and labor/cash invested to argue back. We technically paid the "rent" for the next 6 months before the new lease showed up. They made us sign the lease under distress.


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## misfitmorgan

As far as the "right" to move...yes we have that but they made sure to wait until the middle of hard winter and 1 day before christmas. The lease was also presented with only 22 days before we had to make the first rent payment. So it isnt really feasible for us to move almost 3,000 bales of hay, all of our livestock, and ourselves off the property in such a short period of time, which they know. They also know it would be near to impossible for us to find another place to rent in only 22 days.


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## NH homesteader

Wow what a mess.  I don't know anything  about legality of that sort of thing but I hope you can get it sorted out.  

Sorry about DH's grandfather.


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## farmerjan

I am also sorry for your DH's loss of his grandfather.  The holidays just seem to make a loss even harder to bear.  
I do hope that you have the original agreement on paper, and I would not have signed a new lease, under duress or any other way, without a consult with a lawyer.  Yes I know they cost money, but after all you have put into this place,  if things are not EXACTLY right, with all the i's dotted and t's crossed, you could lose everything.  Believe me, I have seen it happen firsthand.  So please, get some good legal counsel, before you put one more penny into this, if you don't have any now. 
Wanting something, and doing it the the morally right way as it seems you have tried to do, won't count for diddly if  there are any legal loopholes they can go through.  This latest lease thing shows that they are not morally bound to do things the right way, they are in it to see how much they can get out of you.  And are probably delighted to have you "over a barrel" with the time of year making next to impossible to move.  They are going to milk you for all they can as long as they can....and you may find that the only alternative is to move and possibly sell most everything you have worked your a** off for, in order to not go bankrupt. Things like the stalls in the barn, cleaning out 2 ft of manure won't cut a thing with a judge, you did it for yourself not for the property owner.  Since you moved in it as is, a judge  will say that you knew it was like that, if you were unhappy you should have filed a grievance against them, sought legal recourse and/or moved out.  If you have the written original agreement, then you will have some room to fight, but every time you do something that as landlords they are supposed to do, then you are enabling them to "let you" continue to do the work.  And they are not going to do anything  except let you continue to pay the price.  
I am sorry that it sounds as if I am  a negative person, but I have seen too often how people like this work.   They see you as a free ride to getting their neglected place back together, and if you continue to have financing delays or problems, then you won't have a leg to stand on if they want to put you out, and sell it to someone who has available financing....DO NOT TRUST THEM any longer...


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> I am also sorry for your DH's loss of his grandfather.  The holidays just seem to make a loss even harder to bear.
> I do hope that you have the original agreement on paper, and I would not have signed a new lease, under duress or any other way, without a consult with a lawyer.  Yes I know they cost money, but after all you have put into this place,  if things are not EXACTLY right, with all the i's dotted and t's crossed, you could lose everything.  Believe me, I have seen it happen firsthand.  So please, get some good legal counsel, before you put one more penny into this, if you don't have any now.
> Wanting something, and doing it the the morally right way as it seems you have tried to do, won't count for diddly if  there are any legal loopholes they can go through.  This latest lease thing shows that they are not morally bound to do things the right way, they are in it to see how much they can get out of you.  And are probably delighted to have you "over a barrel" with the time of year making next to impossible to move.  They are going to milk you for all they can as long as they can....and you may find that the only alternative is to move and possibly sell most everything you have worked your a** off for, in order to not go bankrupt. Things like the stalls in the barn, cleaning out 2 ft of manure won't cut a thing with a judge, you did it for yourself not for the property owner.  Since you moved in it as is, a judge  will say that you knew it was like that, if you were unhappy you should have filed a grievance against them, sought legal recourse and/or moved out.  If you have the written original agreement, then you will have some room to fight, but every time you do something that as landlords they are supposed to do, then you are enabling them to "let you" continue to do the work.  And they are not going to do anything  except let you continue to pay the price.
> I am sorry that it sounds as if I am  a negative person, but I have seen too often how people like this work.   They see you as a free ride to getting their neglected place back together, and if you continue to have financing delays or problems, then you won't have a leg to stand on if they want to put you out, and sell it to someone who has available financing....DO NOT TRUST THEM any longer...



Everything was spelled out in the original lease even the part about cleaning the property/making the trailer liveable in exchange for a lease payment, if even states our right to purchase the property and the dollar amount after the 1 year lease was up. The delay on financing was their fault because we were waiting on them to do the things they agreed too which now say they will not do. The purchase agreement and all loan paperwork is currently with our lender and we are waiting for them to put all the paperwork thru. There should not be any problems or delays we can see atm but the lender did tell me it could take up to 90 days to close even though typically it only takes 30 days. The purchase agreement also demands 30 days after closing for them to be able to remove their stuff...after that it is our legal right to dispose of it. We do have everything written out as far as we could think to write it out stating in a legal binding fashion our rights and theirs. Even if we have to pay a months rent i will be fine with that but they are taking the cost of the well pump off the rent price or i will take it back to the store and they can go buy one themselves and if they dont provide us with one after we pay rent we will sue for our rent money back. In this state for them to be able to rent the property as a residence which they are doing they are required to have it up to code. The well and septic are both not within code, and neither is the dwelling so i doubt they would want it to go to court. I have talked to a lawyer about all of this already and he says we have a case against them including getting back the money we put into the property because it was leased out with the intention of buying the property at the end of 1 year so we have a reasonable expectation to recoup our monetary investment if the deal falls through or to be able to remove the improvements we made if we are not reimburse for them.

It's just stressful and a rotten thing for them to do to us.


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## farmerjan

Shameful doesn't cut it with people like they seem to be.  Good for you to have everything written out and a lawyer in your corner.  It sounds like you have covered your bases, so hopefully the loan will go through even though they have not done as they agreed.  You might have some legal recourse for that too, like maybe they don't have another 30 days to get their stuff out????  I would have the lawyer push it a little though, and let him handle the rent payments so that you don't have to go through the aggravation and stress of dealing with them.  Just tell them to talk to your lawyer....it might make them tow the line a little better and get it done quicker if they realize that you are not going to be intimidated and bullied by them.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Sorry BYH didnt notify me of this post. If you have a "high" water table on the property it is very possible the pond was put in in place of the cistern. You used to be able to water livestock from surface water so many farmers would  make ponds on their property or purposely fence across streams so their livestock has water access. You have to remember that back in the day there was no way you were going to bucket a few hundred gallons of water from your pump faucet in your kitchen out to the livestock daily. The cistern and even the open wells were not made to withstand that kind of use and would have run the cistern/well dry daily to get livestock water. In warmer climates they of course had things like windmill drawn water tanks but in cold climates like we live in it wasnt reasonable. Be option was ponds/streams, though streams were preferred as running water takes longer to freeze and requires constant colder temps to stay frozen solid.
> 
> The real history and lay out of old wells/cisterns can often never be figured out. Some properties have many wells simply because a well went dry or got full of silt at some point and the land owner decided...hey its time for a new well. Even in modern days now because do the same thing because they want either a deep well, a shallow well or even for reasons like trying to get rid of sulfer in their water.



Good points. My GUESS as to why the stone well in the area north of the wetland is where it is: So they could easily get water at will that wasn't full of 'whatever' solid stuff. At least one spring that entire well was under water (stones stop at ground level). Water can fill the well from the bottom or even sides (I don't think the stones are mortared) because it is at the edge of an area that has a high water table. The water in the well would be filtered a least a little by having to seep through the ground to get there. Not something I would drink without treatment of course, I'm sure plenty of bacteria could make it through. But  animals watered with it that would otherwise be in the wetland to drink would probably be somewhat better off. 

The wetland drains to a man made pond in the NE corner of the property when there is plenty of water.  Thus, we have a seasonal river, um creek, um stream, um brook *OK OK* rivulet! 

I hope your loan people can get their act in gear fast and take you off the rollercoaster!!


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## misfitmorgan

We had a horrible loss in my family please pray for us to be equipped to handle our grief.


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## CntryBoy777

Sorry to Hear that!...our Thoughts and Prayers are with you and family....Hope Strength, Comfort, and Understanding come your way.


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## frustratedearthmother

So sorry to hear that - prayers sent up for you and yours.


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## norseofcourse

Prayers for you and your family for strength at this time...


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## Goat Whisperer

Echoing what everyone else has said 

I am so sorry for your loss


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## Hens and Roos

Sorry for your loss, prayers for your family


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## Latestarter

Deepest sympathies for your loss. Try to remain strong and well grounded. We're all here for you if/when the time comes that you need us.


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## Baymule

My deepest sympathy and prayers sent with love for you and your family. May the Lord bless you and comfort you in your time of hurt and grief.


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## TAH

!!! 
Prays sent your way!!!


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## NH homesteader

Sorry for your loss.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you everyone. 

As a few of you know we lost DH's Grandfather on Christmas morning. 

Then on Jan 5th we lost my brother. I dont really know what more to say except that we are trying to go on as best as we can. I probly wont be very active here for awhile because my heart just isnt really in it and my brain definitely isnt either. I will be back though, maybe in the spring and i will check alerts from time to time i'm sure.


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## NH homesteader

can't even express how  sorry I am that your family is going through this 

 we will be thinking of you.


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## CntryBoy777

All is understood and sure hope ya get things sorted out. Our thoughts and Prayers continue towards you, and for your Strength, Comfort, and Understanding.


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## Hens and Roos

so sorry


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## babsbag

I just saw this today. I am very sorry and praying that God gives you strength and healing.


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## samssimonsays

Many hugs and prayers. I am so sorry for all you are dealing with.


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## Latestarter

My sincere sympathies on your double loss over such a short time.


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## Goat Whisperer

I am so sorry you are dealing with this 

Take as much time as you need. Grieve and try to work through this. My heart hurts for you, this is awful. Nothing we can say to make this better, but we all thinking of you. 

Thank you for sharing with us and not just "dropping of the map"- we will be here to welcome you back when the time comes.


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## Bruce

I second @Goat Whisperer's comments. We would worry a ton if you just disappeared.


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## norseofcourse

I can't say it any better than it's been said... prayers for you and your family


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## OneFineAcre

Very sorry for your losses


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## Southern by choice




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## farmerjan

There are no words. May a prayer and a thought be with you.  Turn your face to the breeze and feel the touch of your loved ones as they try to help you through your grief and healing.


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## Baymule

At a time like this you want to scream WHY?? Often there is no answer and you have to search your heart and soul and still come up with no answer. Try to find your peaceful place in your heart and remember the good times. They say that time heals and I have found that to be true. I miss loved ones, but as time passes, I heal from the raw grief and soothe myself with remembering them with love. Praying for you.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you everyone 



Baymule said:


> At a time like this you want to scream WHY?? Often there is no answer and you have to search your heart and soul and still come up with no answer. Try to find your peaceful place in your heart and remember the good times. They say that time heals and I have found that to be true. I miss loved ones, but as time passes, I heal from the raw grief and soothe myself with remembering them with love. Praying for you.


Excellent advice...i can only hope time will help.


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## Bruce

It will but it will be slow, very slow.


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## misfitmorgan

Over the weekend Phoebe had twin kids...both boys of course.

Last night Cassiopia had a single kid....a boy of course.


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## CntryBoy777

Congratulations!!....it is really good seeing ya out and about again....


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## norseofcourse

Congrats on the kids!  I take it you were hoping for girls... sorry.
Good to see you


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## misfitmorgan

Thanks much @CntryBoy777 

Thank you @norseofcourse we have in fact been hoping for some full size girls. We have not had a full size girl goat born in 3 years only mini's. I hope the new buck will give us more girls when he is ready atm i dont think he is quite up to it.

Yesterday is the first day since i lost my brother that i actually felt happy, it kind of shocked me because i didnt realize i wasnt feeling happy at all.  But yesterday was sunny and warm and just seemed cheery and it made me happy because spring is coming soon. I still miss my brother terribly i dont think that will ever go away but i am learning to live with i guess.

Anyhow i'll try to keep things more cheery on journal, for my own sake as well as everyone else's!


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## Bruce

Baby steps on the emotional recovery @misfitmorgan


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## TAH

x3- good to see around! 

Congrats!


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats on the kids!


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Baby steps on the emotional recovery @misfitmorgan



Thanks Bruce


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## misfitmorgan

Thanks @TAH  and @Hens and Roos too!!

Had a lamb born last night....its a boy. The momma is Sweetie and she rejected her first lamb who was Maggie last year so i'm glad to see she appears to be taking excellant care of this lamb.

I dont think the two young Ewe's got bred but we shall see but they could go as long as the end of April before we know for sure.

So the bad part is....i'm pretty sure the father of this lamb is those stupid mutt rams the DH brought home. The mutt rams arrived on October 6th her service date would have been October 6th  DH brought them home and chucked them in the barn to run with the other sheep which i didnt know about until 2 days later...i told him no no those need to go in a pen so they dont breed the suffolk. I stuck them in a pen when i found out they were loose, after they had been with our ewes for 2 days. So great they are penned and as long as they lamb outside of that window it is from my suffolk rams.....not really. DH failed to tell me the rams were jumping the gate on the pen...every day. After a month i gave up cause i figured well damage is done now. Dh told me when he went to get them mutts he wouldnt mind mutt sheep, now his tune has changed because we have a mostly worthless ram lamb that should have been a pure suffolk lamb and worth $150


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## Latestarter

Good to see you back and really glad that you've had a happy day! It starts with one and hopefully soon there will be others to join it. It's amazing what a seasonal change can do for a person's mood. Spring is coming. Sorry to hear about the lamb issue but congrats on the new kids. Would have been nice to have at least one full sized doeling...


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## Baymule

Well at least you can sell him for meat or eat him yourself. You could put him in the freezer and label the packages MUTT. It would give you many opportunities to serve your husband MUTT chops, MUTT burger, MUTT leg of lamb and MUTT roast............ BWA-HA-HA-HA!!!


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Good to see you back and really glad that you've had a happy day! It starts with one and hopefully soon there will be others to join it. It's amazing what a seasonal change can do for a person's mood. Spring is coming. Sorry to hear about the lamb issue but congrats on the new kids. Would have been nice to have at least one full sized doeling...



Thanks Latestarter!



Baymule said:


> Well at least you can sell him for meat or eat him yourself. You could put him in the freezer and label the packages MUTT. It would give you many opportunities to serve your husband MUTT chops, MUTT burger, MUTT leg of lamb and MUTT roast............ BWA-HA-HA-HA!!!



That is hilarious! Not sure i would want to eat him...shall see i guess. Mom is Suffolk, dad is bond icelandic cross. We have another mutt ram lamb already in the barn, mom is polypay dad is bond cross.  The older lamb was born awhile back and is solid black.


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## misfitmorgan

So i found these photos on my camera from this spring/summer that i forgot i had taken....i'm betting you guys wanna see them.

This is our barn (that is not our junk lol) The giant pile of clay/dirt is from when we had the waterline to the barn dug up because it was leaking really badly underground. The line got fixed but we had to wait almost a month for the guy to come back and fill the hole back in.



 
This is the loft....my camera kept trying to focus on the dust particles because of the setting sun. i'm actually standing on top of a hay wagon half full of hay thats why it doesnt look very high off the ground lol.


 

Here are some of the suffolk sheep not long after we got the new ones. They are in quarantine with the new goat kids we had gotten and complaining because they i'm taking pics instead of getting them dinner.


 

Some of the ducks


 

More Suffolk sheep...this is Sweetie and Honey


 

This was DH horse..Trick whom we dont have anymore


 

This is Phoebe checking to see if the camera is food.


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## frustratedearthmother

Cool pics!!


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## misfitmorgan

This is DH working in the garden...i always have to sneak his pictures.




These are two of our hoop coops which we didnt use this year. Normally there are tarp tops so the poultry have shade and nest boxes, roost pole, etc. The metal sided one is great for raising ducklings.




Issac thinking he sees a rabbit




And some more pictures of Issac


 

 

 



This is how most of his pics turn out because he LOVES to run


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## misfitmorgan

frustratedearthmother said:


> Cool pics!!



Thanks!


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## CntryBoy777

That is a really nice barn....and the animals are really nice, is Isaac a full-blood doberman? In some of the pics he appears to have some bluish-silver in it like a weimaraner...could just be the angle of light, but just thought it interesting enough to ask. It also looks like ya have a fairly good sized garden too. Ya have a realy nice place there...just a bit to far north for my taste...


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> That is a really nice barn....and the animals are really nice, is Isaac a full-blood doberman? In some of the pics he appears to have some bluish-silver in it like a weimaraner...could just be the angle of light, but just thought it interesting enough to ask. It also looks like ya have a fairly good sized garden too. Ya have a realy nice place there...just a bit to far north for my taste...



Way far north for my tastes lol. My family is here and esp now i need to stay around. I'm glad you like our farm, we like it a lot. 

The garden area is actually 2 acres split into three sections and we plant 1.5 sections and spread the barn manure on the fallow side then switch next year. The soil is almost 100% clay so we are conditioning it so stuff might actually grow like it should lol. 

Issac is a purebred Doberman, he is a blue and tan dobie which most people dont know exist it seems. Dobie's come in 4 colors, black and tan, blue and tan(dilute black), red and tan, fawn and tan (dilute red).....there also exists white/albino looking dobies and black/melanistic dobies but they're NOT encouraged to be bred because of being extra sensitive to sunlight and a higher risk of tumors as well as behavior problems and health issues in the Albinos and the melinistic dobies are not encouraged to be bred because they are not reconized as a color by the standard. 

Personally i would bred any color but white/albino, the only reason melanistic isnt reconsidered is because they are not enough of them to make a color yet. Anyhow Lots of people think he is a weimaraner because he is a european style dobie so he has a larger head and thicker neck then american dobies which makes him look like a weimaraner, the blue color doesnt help though


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## misfitmorgan

There is a pic of all 6 colors on this link. Some breeder owns all the colors.

http://www.edoglovers.com/profile/details.asp?ID=6325

Edit: i was wrong either fawn or white is missing i can't tell which from the picture.


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## CntryBoy777

Well, I had to ask, but he did appear to be pure to me, and I wasn't aware of the color variance, thanks....he is beautiful either way.


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## Baymule

Wow.... I am impressed by your barn! I love it!  It makes my 36'x36' barn look like an outhouse. You have a nice place and that is a fabulous pic of your husband.....so photogenic!  Your Dobie is a handsome boy!


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Well, I had to ask, but he did appear to be pure to me, and I wasn't aware of the color variance, thanks....he is beautiful either way.



No problem, we love him a lot. I had no clue dobies came in any color except black/tan until i meet DH. We would like to get a red and rust female but i dunno if i wanna breed dogs i do however want a red and rust and a fawn some day lol.



Baymule said:


> Wow.... I am impressed by your barn! I love it!  It makes my 36'x36' barn look like an outhouse. You have a nice place and that is a fabulous pic of your husband.....so photogenic!  Your Dobie is a handsome boy!



Thanks Baymule! The livestock portion of the barn is 40'x50' then the drivethru for putting hay in the loft and then the leanto thingy they build on the end there, i think the overall footprint is around 40'x80', we also have a 2 car garage with a machine shop attached to the back of it, a guest house, and a grainery but that being said i would rather have your 36'x36' barn because it isnt full of someone elses junk. All the buildings need major work except really the barn and it does need a new cement floor poured in the livestock area. DH hates his pic taken!
Here are some pics of what we need to clean up...if the finance guy ever lets us know if we are getting financed or not.



 


 

 

 
The fanning mill(red thing in the middle), ridgid drill and grain bin are ours the rest all belongs to the current owners. We did get the trailer pulled out since the photos(thats the yellow thing on the ground) This is the machine shed the right hand wall frost heaved. The plan is to build a tempary header/support inside,cut the wall loose on that side, raise that side to get the door off, then dig out the cement lower portion, then slowly slowly pull the wall back in and pour a new cement section with re-bar, reattached the wall and rehang the door, put in two more roof trusses, then re-hang the door after a bit of repair to the bottom corner.

This is the front side of that same building.


 
The grain wagon and the manure spreader are ours, the black plastic is a failed temporary tarp, the green is a military tarp. Yes the grain wagon has a flat tire in the pic lol. Need to put a new piece of tin on the front left corner of the roof, and two new facia boards otherwise the roof is in good shape, doesnt leak etc.


 
The plastic cover for the trailblazer tailgate is ours.


 
This is the side we had started clearing before they told us to stop.


 
That brown fake wood thing on the left with the old screen doors on top is a big pen i made out of old closet doors and other random doors they had laying around, it came out pretty nice and is approx 6'x6'. We put the chicks we hatch out there to grown big enough for a coop.


 
This is the backwall that separates the garage and machine shed. There is a large sliding door in the wall, large enough to drive a car or tractor thru...but it would need the concrete leveled first.


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## misfitmorgan

Round 2 lol
This is the guest house, it suffered fire damage and they just left it.



The big opening here actually had a sliding glass door in it. The whole building had wood siding. This was the original farmhouse that someone redid the inside of in the early 2000s and they messed up the wiring i guess because that caused the fire. The brown/tan door is the bathroom. The building on the right you can see on the edge of the picture is a addition to a building that we brought here to be set on a foundation and finished off but then the guy with the equipment inherited 380k and lost his mind pretty much, so there it sits until we figure out how to move it and put it on a foundation.


 


Plans for this are lift the building, put in new floor joists on the right side because they are shot, gut most of the inside on the right side, re-do the wiring, lay new sub floor, fix the end wall, put in french doors, re-finish the inside then put in new windows. We shall see. We only want it so my niece can visit, she has CF and since we use wood to heat our house she can never stay at my house but her siblings get too...not fair.

This is the grainery. We had someone come vandilize the place when we were fixing it up, they broke the window in the door....as well as many others and the toilet, mirrors in the house, windows in the house....general jerk-ish stuff.



This building isnt to bad. The floor by the door needs a bit of work and that one piece of facia/soffit needs repair, as well as the door needing to be re-set so it closes properly. Really its in the best shape of the out buildings. The windows are ours we put a couple in the house, the rest have been put away to be windows in the guest house. Shhh....Issac is hunting a wabbit.... 

All the junk laying around is the current owners with a very few things being ours.
This is whats in the lean-to on the end of the barn. The trailer to the right is our chicken coop with its original yard. The bales of hay/straw laying outside are from inside the barn loft. Most of those bales have now been plowed into the garden.





Round bales of straw are ours, some of the rabbit cages are ours, vinyl fence panels are ours and the hay wagon full of hay is ours. We cleaned out one of the 3 "stalls" so we could use it and we cleaned out part of the stall where the straw is. We were told to stop cleaning again.

Property owners random piles of junk


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## NH homesteader

Wow you have a lot of work to do (those people are disasters huh), but it is an amazing piece of property with a lot of potential. It'll look amazing once you're able to do what you want to do with it! How is the buying process going? Still stuck waiting?


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## misfitmorgan

More junk piles


 

 

 

 

 


 


 

 


 
There was/is also the pile of trash they tried to bury, a pile of old fence posts with barbwire still attached and piles of old round bales. Most things that burn we have burned as long as they allowed us too. There is also the problem of the never ending plastic twine that seems to grow out of the ground like weeds and the buried electric fence wire. These pictures are after approx 3-4 months of clean up already. We have gotten rid of more stuff since these pictures, cleaned out half of the garage, got some scrap hauled off etc. But it still needs a lot of work and the owners dont want us throwing things away or burning them...because they are "valuable"....

Remember the yellow trailer in the pictures of the machine shed. They keep trying to sell it to us. It needs new paint, a new deck, new wiring, new tires, new brakes, new lights, and a plate....so basically it is a trailer frame only...they only want $600 for it  We keep telling them no thank you we are not interested.


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Wow you have a lot of work to do (those people are disasters huh), but it is an amazing piece of property with a lot of potential. It'll look amazing once you're able to do what you want to do with it! How is the buying process going? Still stuck waiting?



We have big plans and the place could be really great with some work. According to the finance guy we should have found out last week if we were getting financed or not but no word yet. DH is suppose to call him again today.


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## NH homesteader

for good news


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## Hens and Roos

Hope you get good news!!


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## Mike CHS

I'm sure those people are close relatives of the people who used to own our place.


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## misfitmorgan

Thanks @NH homesteader and @Hens and Roos 

I am pretty sure they must be related @Mike CHS If you saw pictures of what it looked like when we first saw it this is a vast improvement already. Just brush hogging the chest high grass helped a lot.


----------



## Mike CHS

Believe me I understand what you are working with.  There was so many pieces of misc. metal, cinder blocks and piles of building debris I literally had to float the front end loader over the surface of most of 18 acres before I could cut it the first time.   Your hard working is really showing though and hope everything settles soon.


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## CntryBoy777

Hope it does all work out for ya and ya gain control. It did look like ya could be a member of the "Red Neck Yacht Club" with those boats there.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Hope it does all work out for ya and ya gain control. It did look like ya could be a member of the "Red Neck Yacht Club" with those boats there.



I know they keep trying to sell us the boats too..for $500 each. Again we tell them no thank you as we already own a boat and only one of those boats has a trailer and it had no hitch lol. The wooden boat needs to be burned it has a small tree growing thru the bottom of it. The two on the ground have trees growing in them and wasp nests. Then they tried selling us the hay racks for $600 each..firstly they are not worth that much and secondly we know the actual owner and it isnt them. They tried selling us grain elevators and the hay elevators in the barn too and again we know the real owners and it isnt them. They own one elevator which has no motor on it and were like...you can have that one...gee thanks.



Mike CHS said:


> Believe me I understand what you are working with.  There was so many pieces of misc. metal, cinder blocks and piles of building debris I literally had to float the front end loader over the surface of most of 18 acres before I could cut it the first time.   Your hard working is really showing though and hope everything settles soon.



I think the part that bothers me the most is people think it is our junk. People come to look at animals and i am like omg i cant imagine what they are thinking when they pull into the driveway.


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## Bruce

My opinion (unasked for  ) with regard to the original house:
Don't try to "fix" it. Take it down and start from scratch, use what materials you salvaged from it where possible. Otherwise you will spend a ton of time (and money) trying to straighten it up and get it on a decent foundation and STILL end up with a building that has structural issues and smells like burned wood. 

Pretty amazing they don't want you to clean up all that crap. Free labor! Even if they tell you not to get rid of anything, you could move it all to one pile, even sorted (metal here, plastic there, 100 miles of hotwire pulled out of the fields to save your brush hog there, definite junk over there, stuff that could be used/sold over there ...) so when you do own the place they can take all their "valuables" away, have a scrap metal company buy what they can use, hold a "anything over there is free" weekend and then get a 600 yard  dumpster for the rest.

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!
And when it all gets overwhelming


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## CntryBoy777

I'm sorry for what I'm about to say....but, after all they have tried to pull on ya, the only thing I would be offering to them is the Ashes of anything I thought they might have wanted after I piled them up and Burned them. I wouldn't waste my breath and energy sorting anything for them....and if I got the loan, paid them off I wouldn't allow them back on My property to remove a damn thing...if all I did was burn it. When pushed I can be very vindictive, and in my book of definitions they have gone beyond "Pushing" ya....heck, after reading your posts, and I was able, I'd gladly come up and assist ya for Free....course it would be "Mississippi Style".


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## NH homesteader

Mississippi style sounds an awful lot like New Hampshire style, just ask my husband lol.


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> for good news



You and me both


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> My opinion (unasked for  ) with regard to the original house:
> Don't try to "fix" it. Take it down and start from scratch, use what materials you salvaged from it where possible. Otherwise you will spend a ton of time (and money) trying to straighten it up and get it on a decent foundation and STILL end up with a building that has structural issues and smells like burned wood.
> 
> Pretty amazing they don't want you to clean up all that crap. Free labor! Even if they tell you not to get rid of anything, you could move it all to one pile, even sorted (metal here, plastic there, 100 miles of hotwire pulled out of the fields to save your brush hog there, definite junk over there, stuff that could be used/sold over there ...) so when you do own the place they can take all their "valuables" away, have a scrap metal company buy what they can use, hold a "anything over there is free" weekend and then get a 600 yard  dumpster for the rest.
> 
> Good luck!!!!!!!!!!
> And when it all gets overwhelming



We did think about that but atm it looks like fixing the original house would cost less because it is already tied into the septic, drain field, and water supply. We would also not have to get a bunch of extra permits like we would with new construction. The county see's fixing an existing building as re-modeling so the permit is much easier to get and doesnt require a bunch of extra stuff. If we demolished and wanted to put a new guest house we would have to get a bunch of inspections done like making sure it is far enough from other buildings, well tested, septic tested to see if it could handle the extra capacity needed, and drain field inspection, inspection for the propane line, DEQ inspection, inspection to make sure we are not somehow building on a wetland or protected area. Remodel only requires a electric and plumbing inspection which we would also need if we built new. The new price for a building approx the same size without counting the inspections and permits would be around 12-15k, to fix this one it should be around 5-6k. Everything on the left side of the building is still fine minus were the window was broken by the fire crew. The only rafter that need to be replaced in the gable one. So lift the little house, replace the last 6 floor joists, new sub floor, lower the house, replace windows and doors, fix sheeting and siding on the one end, then remodel the inside. DH can lift the little house, he has jacked and moved houses before. If we discover more problems when we lift the house then we can check cost of fixing it vs new built. It is only ment to be a guest house so it doesnt need to be perfect and is on a good foundation atm far as we know. I did orginally want to build new but when i compared the numbers i would rather do it for 5-6k then 12-15k lol.

We did clean up a lot of it and made separate piles but some of it they wont let us move. The boats, the old farm implements, piles of rotten books, etc. We have a scrap pile which is in one of the pics but it was way bigger before the pic and is almost gone now, we made a pile of tires, stuff that burns....that we burned lol..shhh, barbwire and electric fence wire went in the scrap pile, we made a hay pile to be mixed in with the compost for the garden which will all be screened eventually, we still have a pile of old fence posts that havnt made it onto the burn pile yet. We mowed/brush hogged between all the implements and moved them closer together.

I can't even tell you how many entire rolls of electric fence wire DH found with the brush hog, i was completely dumbfounded by it. If it touched the ground it stayed there...period, didnt matter what it was worth or not. There have so far been 3 dumpsters of stuff hauled off 2 20 yard dumpsters and a 4 yard dumpster. I think these people are hoarders and just cant let go of stuff. The house was packed full with just little trails when we first saw it. All this stuff and they only lived there for approx 10yrs.



CntryBoy777 said:


> I'm sorry for what I'm about to say....but, after all they have tried to pull on ya, the only thing I would be offering to them is the Ashes of anything I thought they might have wanted after I piled them up and Burned them. I wouldn't waste my breath and energy sorting anything for them....and if I got the loan, paid them off I wouldn't allow them back on My property to remove a damn thing...if all I did was burn it. When pushed I can be very vindictive, and in my book of definitions they have gone beyond "Pushing" ya....heck, after reading your posts, and I was able, I'd gladly come up and assist ya for Free....course it would be "Mississippi Style".



That's what DH said as soon as the papers are signed he is telling them where to go and to not step foot on the property again or we will call the cops. I think legally we have to give them 30 days though, i'm not sure. I'm not sure what mississippi style is? DH wants to dig a hole out back and just pack the junk in there, i told him no cause then for the next 20years it is gonna be sprouting out just like the stupid plastic twine. I swear we pick it all up and it just re-grows again. We have picked up the pasture about 12 times now and there still is always more. I think these people just threw the whole bale out for the livestock and never took off the twine or picked it up, we have hauled literally 12 wheelbarrows full of twine and trash out of the pasture. We might drop a piece or two of twine now and then but we pick it up when we see it and we use sisal twine. I'm ranting...sorry lol.


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## CntryBoy777

Well, since I have in-laws up that way, I'm familiar with the average "Attitude" that many display. As far as "Mississippi Style" goes, ya invite them over and when they pull up ya light the match...having already soaked it with kerosene or diesel fuel...making sure the treasured pcs are in plain view, as ya smile and wave....


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Well, since I have in-laws up that way, I'm familiar with the average "Attitude" that many display. As far as "Mississippi Style" goes, ya invite them over and when they pull up ya light the match...having already soaked it with kerosene or diesel fuel...making sure the treasured pcs are in plain view, as ya smile and wave....



I'm not to fond of northern people, its seems their only goals for most of them is what can i get , how can i screw over the next guy, or whats in it for me? We help people all the time for free and still keep getting the short end of the stick.

Speaking of helping...i have begrudgingly agreed to house and care for my late brothers dogs for a month while my sister-in-law moves almost 3 hours away...at the last minute. I told her she is gonna have to pay up front for the dog food though. So this weekend we have to find a trailer to borrow, go take down her chain link fence panels, load them up and take them to the farm to make a run for her dogs so we can let them outside when they need to potty. They dont stay in the yard worth a hill of beans and i dont have room for 3 chains and cant put pickets in the ground atm cause its frozen from 3 inches down. Last time i had them i started training them with the sportdog collar so i could use the recall beep but they were only here a week and i assume they forgot it by now. So we will have 7 dogs..for a month...this should be fun.


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## NH homesteader

I'm sorry you have to deal with that. On top of everything else.

I've found the same with people here. My husband helps people all the time and we only have one or two people we can count on in return. I don't count favors or keep track per se but it's blatantly obvious. We have one guy we know who spells out his terms (quid pro quo? Lol) ahead of time.


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> I'm sorry you have to deal with that. On top of everything else.
> 
> I've found the same with people here. My husband helps people all the time and we only have one or two people we can count on in return. I don't count favors or keep track per se but it's blatantly obvious. We have one guy we know who spells out his terms (quid pro quo? Lol) ahead of time.



Same with us, we are not over here with a tally board or anything and DH says you dont keep track of who owns who with your friends but yeah it is stupid obvious too. Like one of DH best friends came and helped with hay this summer for 6hrs and took home a rack of alfalfa hay worth about $700 and said "Oh i didnt know you wanted more help then that one day, for the hay...."   Can i keep my pigs in your barn for  a month or two while i build a pen/shelter for them?.....Sure! Over a year later...Your pigs are still in our barn and your about $200 behind on feed atm. It's been 4 months since you cleaned your pigs stall....i figured you were cleaning it weekly since i helped clean the barn last time. etc...etc...etc.


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## CntryBoy777

Been there and Done that.....when I had the 1st heart attack I found out that my "Definitions" and the ones used by others, tho the same words, definitely had different definitions. Then I realized that the communication and "Love and Care" was just a one-way street. Nobody called to check on me, try to visit me, or even sent any money to help pay a bill or 2 with none coming in for about 3 months. I intentionally did not call any, just to see how long it would be before they cared enough to call...none did, not family or friends. So, then I began marking them off my "List". I have done a few things here and there, just because that is who I am, but I have the 2 oldest daughters, my sister, and many that used to be called friends that I haven't talked to since '12, when Mom died. About the only contact me and my sister have is dealing with Dad's situation. I won't even start about the in-laws, but suffice it to say...I wouldn't cross the street and P**s on them if they were on fire. Blood and family used to matter to me, but no more. I communicate right here with y'all and would help ya out, before I would lift a finger to help any of the others...even family. Didn't mean to vent on your Journal, but just so ya know ya aren't the only one. As far as the pigs go, if I was in your shoes I'd have sent them to freezer camp and said I thought it was for the lack of Payment for food and upkeep....


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## Hens and Roos

It's interesting to find out when the chips are down, who one can depend on


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## Baymule

Looking beyond all the crap piles, that is a beautiful place. And I am still in love with the barn. Those people sound like a bunch of wackos and I definitely would check out how long you have to suffer their presence after signing the papers that say the place doesn't belong to them anymore. I wouldn't give them a minute longer than I absolutely had to.

Why haven't you put those freeloader pigs in YOUR freezer?

Hope you get good news on the finance NOW-so you can move forward on getting that place cleaned up.

Just had a thought.....these yahoos might want to bring other people on YOUR property to show some of that "valuable" crap in order to sell it......ya' might want to put it in the final papers that no one is allowed on your property except them--to load their crap up and get it off your land--and only when you are home. they might want to claim some of your valuable stuff....


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Been there and Done that.....when I had the 1st heart attack I found out that my "Definitions" and the ones used by others, tho the same words, definitely had different definitions. Then I realized that the communication and "Love and Care" was just a one-way street. Nobody called to check on me, try to visit me, or even sent any money to help pay a bill or 2 with none coming in for about 3 months. I intentionally did not call any, just to see how long it would be before they cared enough to call...none did, not family or friends. So, then I began marking them off my "List". I have done a few things here and there, just because that is who I am, but I have the 2 oldest daughters, my sister, and many that used to be called friends that I haven't talked to since '12, when Mom died. About the only contact me and my sister have is dealing with Dad's situation. I won't even start about the in-laws, but suffice it to say...I wouldn't cross the street and P**s on them if they were on fire. Blood and family used to matter to me, but no more. I communicate right here with y'all and would help ya out, before I would lift a finger to help any of the others...even family. Didn't mean to vent on your Journal, but just so ya know ya aren't the only one. As far as the pigs go, if I was in your shoes I'd have sent them to freezer camp and said I thought it was for the lack of Payment for food and upkeep....



No worries, i enjoy conversation whatever it is so vent or rant or whatever you wanna do on my journal. Family is still important to me but i only have one friend and she does do stuff for me/us too, the rest i got rid of.

No room in the freezer for the pigs we have two pigs in there already lol. Besides DH only has 2 actual people he considers friends and this guy is one of them so i dont wanna rock the boat. Eventually DH will get sick of it and that will be the end of it.



Baymule said:


> Looking beyond all the crap piles, that is a beautiful place. And I am still in love with the barn. Those people sound like a bunch of wackos and I definitely would check out how long you have to suffer their presence after signing the papers that say the place doesn't belong to them anymore. I wouldn't give them a minute longer than I absolutely had to.
> 
> Why haven't you put those freeloader pigs in YOUR freezer?
> 
> Hope you get good news on the finance NOW-so you can move forward on getting that place cleaned up.
> 
> Just had a thought.....these yahoos might want to bring other people on YOUR property to show some of that "valuable" crap in order to sell it......ya' might want to put it in the final papers that no one is allowed on your property except them--to load their crap up and get it off your land--and only when you are home. they might want to claim some of your valuable stuff....



How dare you call my piles of treasures crap!...just joking, it is crap for sure  I think most people look at the place and are like what a dump but it could be so so very gorgeous. DH is suppose to be finding out how long they legally have access to the property in Michigan. Trust me as soon as we can legally keep them off the place we will be more then happy to tell them so. DH wants to get a trail cam and set it up facing the driveway lol.

DH was to busy at work to call the finance guy yesterday, he is suppose to call today on his lunch because today should be slower. We planned on putting something like that in the paperwork but then i dont know if they would sign it. I am pretty sure legally we only have to send a letter to the sheriff's department declaring the 30days and the last day they are allowed on the property and the sheriff will let them know, then we dont have to deal with them after that. They have already tried to take our stuff. They tried to take our rabbit cages, our hay rack, our brand new roll of fencing. They do the ok well we are gonna go load this...umm no thats ours...the hay rack they have listed for sale with their junk ones and we told them that is our hay rack not yours.

Honestly they seem more dumb then anything, like honestly never very bright people.

Like when we had the first 20yard dumpster there they were doing something and their son and them came over and piled a bunch of computers and crap out of the garage in there and were like ok there it is full. So we called a scrap guy we know and he came and went thru the dumpster and took all the computers out and anything metal and every single extension cord etc....it rained rained a few days and they came back like 3 or 4 days later and were like "Oh look at that the rain must have pushed the stuff all down." Do you have any idea how hard it was not to laugh out loud in front of them, i literally had to say excuse me i need to check on the dogs and went in the house so i could laugh and then compose myself. It was so very very very obvious that the stuff they had put in there like the 30 computers was gone.

So anyhow they got more crap out and we kept having the scrap guy come get stuff and then one day they were like we are gonna find someone to come buy the scrap. They were like we probly have about $2,000 in scrap here (again so hard not to laugh) then asked if we wanted to buy it. Hell no i do not want to buy your junk that i already picked up at least once. DH told them scrap was only about $6/ton so no one was going to pay for it but he could probly find someone to take it off for free. They were gonna check around, so after 5 months DH called his scrap buddy and had him come in and start taking loads of stuff off. After 5 trucks loads and 2 trailer loads over about 7 months we told them we found someone to take the one metal pile off the place and they were like ok good go ahead.

When i gave them the last rent payment they told me their nephew was gonna come over and take some scrap off and was the place frozen enough. I told them yes it was but it was gonna warm up in a few days so then he wouldnt be able to get in for scrap. So the nephew shows up that weekend when we are not home and it has warmed up so it's all mud. Got stuck twice trying to get to the farm implements section which is maybe 25ft down the one driveway from the road, loaded an old plow and i assume was in mud to deep to go anywhere because they made it 3ft and the plow was unloaded and they left. This is all our assumption because we were not home as i mentioned but from the aftermath that is as near as we can figure. So yeah he isnt to bright either.

These people are also just so very lazy. They had us pull the trailer out of the machine shed in november so they could get new tires on it. It's still sitting where we pulled it out and they have been here 6 times to put new tires on it and keep having some sort of problem. It still has no tires.


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## misfitmorgan

I hope you all understand me alright i know i use the wrong words fairly often and i dont always catch them when i go back and proofread ok like hardly ever catch them


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## Mike CHS

I don't recall seeing a single spell or definition checker on this forum since I have been a member so I wouldn't worry about it.


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## NH homesteader

I realized recently that my posts have far more typos than I realized... Stupid cell phone! 

Those people sound exhausting. Hope you'll be done with them soon!


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## samssimonsays

Wow. Just, wow. Those people sound like the ones down the road from us.... It is a wonder how they know to breath...


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## CntryBoy777

Your words seem fine to me...we all makes errors, so I wouldn't be too concerned about that. If it weren't so sad, it would be just Hilarious....okay, it's not sad just absolutely Hilarious. I've been around some like that, too. They are so far removed from "Reality" they can't recognize it staring them in the face. Most up there thrive on "Drama" and just how much turmoil they can create for others, then sit, brag, and laugh about how they upset another's life or situation. They will lie, cheat, and steal just to accomplish their "Goal". My in-laws had never run into a "Buzzsaw" like me, and were astonished when I turned the tables on them. They had their sister, my wife Joyce, running scared to their antics. After, thousands of dollars of loss and theft, I finally got her to see the light and just how worthless they truly are. They will never contact me, or approach me in any way, because they don't want to deal with me. So, the door has been "Shut" and they can keep their sorry A**es up there amongst their own kind. It sounds to me that invest in a metal detector might be worth the while for ya to clear your field, it may take a little bit, but it could save equipment expense...and if they are so "Clueless", then there is no telling what is left to be found there. It will even get stuff that ya can't see just under the ground. Tho, they will think you are hunting for the buried "Treasure" they always knew was there, but never found...cause they always thought there was some.


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## norseofcourse

'Wow, just wow' is right, I know you will be so glad to get everything finalized and hopefully soon never have to deal with them again (the trail cam is a good idea too).


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Looking beyond all the crap piles, that is a beautiful place. And I am still in love with the barn. Those people sound like a bunch of wackos and I definitely would check out how long you have to suffer their presence after signing the papers that say the place doesn't belong to them anymore. I wouldn't give them a minute longer than I absolutely had to.
> 
> Why haven't you put those freeloader pigs in YOUR freezer?
> 
> Hope you get good news on the finance NOW-so you can move forward on getting that place cleaned up.
> 
> Just had a thought.....these yahoos might want to bring other people on YOUR property to show some of that "valuable" crap in order to sell it......ya' might want to put it in the final papers that no one is allowed on your property except them--to load their crap up and get it off your land--and only when you are home. they might want to claim some of your valuable stuff....



Yeah I think you need Granny Clampett with her shotgun sitting in a rocker facing the entrance to the property. I wouldn't be surprised to find those people "cleaning up" stuff that isn't theirs when you aren't around. Definitely need to get a legal "you have X days" and then stay away. I THINK that date is usually closing, your cr@p gone when we close. 

$6/ton for scrap? I'm coming down!!!!  I took about 300 pounds of scrap metal plus copper pipe and wire to the metal recycler and came home with about $170. You can bet the scrap was a very small part of that.




CntryBoy777 said:


> As far as the pigs go, if I was in your shoes I'd have sent them to freezer camp and said I thought it was for the lack of Payment for food and upkeep....



They are clearly abandoned property!


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## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> I don't recall seeing a single spell or definition checker on this forum since I have been a member so I wouldn't worry about it.





NH homesteader said:


> I realized recently that my posts have far more typos than I realized... Stupid cell phone!
> 
> Those people sound exhausting. Hope you'll be done with them soon!



Mine are just the wrong words from the dyslexia...but so long as you all can figure out what im saying and dont try to use my exact meaning lol we should be good. 



samssimonsays said:


> Wow. Just, wow. Those people sound like the ones down the road from us.... It is a wonder how they know to breath...



Thats what DH says " I don't know how they can talk and remember to breath all at once" He HATES them and i mean he could shove them off a cliff and not feel bad at all.



CntryBoy777 said:


> Your words seem fine to me...we all makes errors, so I wouldn't be too concerned about that. If it weren't so sad, it would be just Hilarious....okay, it's not sad just absolutely Hilarious. I've been around some like that, too. They are so far removed from "Reality" they can't recognize it staring them in the face. Most up there thrive on "Drama" and just how much turmoil they can create for others, then sit, brag, and laugh about how they upset another's life or situation. They will lie, cheat, and steal just to accomplish their "Goal". My in-laws had never run into a "Buzzsaw" like me, and were astonished when I turned the tables on them. They had their sister, my wife Joyce, running scared to their antics. After, thousands of dollars of loss and theft, I finally got her to see the light and just how worthless they truly are. They will never contact me, or approach me in any way, because they don't want to deal with me. So, the door has been "Shut" and they can keep their sorry A**es up there amongst their own kind. It sounds to me that invest in a metal detector might be worth the while for ya to clear your field, it may take a little bit, but it could save equipment expense...and if they are so "Clueless", then there is no telling what is left to be found there. It will even get stuff that ya can't see just under the ground. Tho, they will think you are hunting for the buried "Treasure" they always knew was there, but never found...cause they always thought there was some.



I know it's a big part of why i hate the North, everyone is somehow against anyone else. They take such joy(while still seeming miserable) in causing drama, heartache, stress, strife, financial hardship, and just plain making life difficult. I don't understand and never will understand how someone can get enjoyment from it. My parents own a metal detector....so i may go looking for their treasure lol. It would take a long time to do all 20 acres i think.



norseofcourse said:


> 'Wow, just wow' is right, I know you will be so glad to get everything finalized and hopefully soon never have to deal with them again (the trail cam is a good idea too).



I have been sick for almost 3 months straight and i thought it was the weather but im starting to think it is the stress. I need it to go away and very soon. Either we get financed or we move period. This hanging in limbo is killing me slowly. 

I think the part that makes me the sickest is I saved for this. I saved to be able to go to a normal bank and get a normal loan with a normal down payment. Then everything went wrong and i had less money..ok fine it wont be the ideal amount for down payment but it will be fine. Then we go talk to the bank and find out they wont finance the property. Talk to another...only as vacant land. Talk to another...only as recreational. Talk to USDA FSA, she makes it seems like we will be all good to go just get all the paperwork done and in and pay the fees etc...comes back we cant prove our farming experience and profit so we are denied. So the next option is a private investor who we are waiting on now. The very last option is a shark loan so we can do the Land contract terms that they want...which would kill us financially anyhow. Meanwhile they are charging us $700/month rent so i cant save any other money.
All that but the thing that absolutely chaps my hide is i worked hard to get my credit score good in preparation for this loan. I have 100% ontime payment, less then 30% credit card utilization, no collections, i do have a bit to many inquires from all the banks and my history is less then 2 years because for some reason they are not counting my credit card that is 7 years old, or anything else except for stuff from the past 2.5years. Still i am far far into the accepted credit score range for any loan and i cant get a bank loan on the property.   
So stressing.



Bruce said:


> Yeah I think you need Granny Clampett with her shotgun sitting in a rocker facing the entrance to the property. I wouldn't be surprised to find those people "cleaning up" stuff that isn't theirs when you aren't around. Definitely need to get a legal "you have X days" and then stay away. I THINK that date is usually closing, your cr@p gone when we close.
> 
> $6/ton for scrap? I'm coming down!!!!  I took about 300 pounds of scrap metal plus copper pipe and wire to the metal recycler and came home with about $170. You can bet the scrap was a very small part of that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are clearly abandoned property!


Good idea but the most important question is....does Granny Clampett work for free?


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## CntryBoy777

Well, if it is meant to be...it will, if not....you'll be much better off in the long run. Really not comforting I know, but there is no need to stress over something you can not control. It could be a "Flag" inabling ya to get back South away from all the negatives. What part are ya from, if it isn't too forward of me to ask?


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## Latestarter

Stress is a killer... seriously. So sad that you have to deal with the owners & their crap, but I guess it's all part and parcel of the terms for the property you're getting. Have to take the good with the bad... If the house was in perfect condition and the farm as well, you wouldn't be able to afford the purchase price, but the loan would be a "gimme". Lenders haven't "forgotten" the recent mortgage melt down and are still "scared" to do any loan that doesn't perfectly fit their refined definitions. To the best of my knowledge, the present owners do NOT have free access to the property once closing happens. 

There should be a "walk through" the day of closing before the actual close for you, the buyers, to make sure that the sellers haven't removed anything that should have been included in the sale either by contract or by law (plumbing, electric, attached fixtures such as lighting, etc). They sellers should have removed all their personal belongings before closing and anything left behind becomes the property of the buyer unless specified in the purchase/sales contract. So their hoard becomes yours to deal with whether you wanted it or not. You can place a gate and lock it barring access to the property should you wish and with a no trespass sign/notice, they would be be in serious trouble if they entered the property and guilty of theft if they remove anything.

I hope the financing comes through for you, especially considering all the work you've already done toward property improvement. There is a lesson to be learned in all that somewhere...


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## samssimonsays

misfitmorgan said:


> Thats what DH says " I don't know how they can talk and remember to breath all at once" He HATES them and i mean he could shove them off a cliff and not feel bad at all.


That is how my husband is as well with the guy we bought our place from. It has come a long way but still sooo far to go. The dumb is seriously a raging epidemic up here. We also have the same issues with our "friends" whom we bend over backwards to help and then get nothing or less than nothing in return.


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## NH homesteader

My husband has dyslexia so my brain auto corrects I think, lol. So I have no issues reading your posts!

My stepdad's best friend is a real estate agent and he said it's super hard to get a loan right now. People keep being rejected last minute, etc. People who should have no issues. It's making his life difficult also, not being able to close sales.

Dumb people? Gosh... We have some real dumb people here too. I do wonder why we pay so much in school taxes when they're obviously not doing a very good job! Just post something on Craigslist and try to tell me people are smart!


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Good idea but the most important question is....does Granny Clampett work for free?



Well she would have a hard time collecting any payment given she's dead 

But you could have "every day shooting range" for your friends set up. The brainless owners are probably smart enough not to walk through the line between the guns and the targets


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## Baymule

We bought our place with a FHA loan. Buying a used mobile home seems to be some sort of a big deal. it being a HUD repo made it even worse. After we sold our old house, we paid this place off. I hope you can get your financing done soon.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Well, if it is meant to be...it will, if not....you'll be much better off in the long run. Really not comforting I know, but there is no need to stress over something you can not control. It could be a "Flag" inabling ya to get back South away from all the negatives. What part are ya from, if it isn't too forward of me to ask?



Definitely not comforting but we have looked at the option of not being able to keep the place. The problem now is we have just enough stuff it would have to be sold as we have no other place to keep it not to mention all of our livestock would need to be sold and atm prices are still rock bottom here so we would take a huge financial loss.

The other problem would be that we own 4 dogs and it is hard to find rentals that let you have 4 dogs. I can't get rid of my chihuahua mix as i have had her for 13yrs now and DH can't get rid of his mini weiner because he has had him for 10yrs. I wouldn't wanna break up Issac the dobie and Kora the doberdoodle because their best friends. All that aside we have discussed it.

DH's brother offered him a job down in Texas starting at 45k/year but we would lose my job so we would be making less then we do now unless i could find someplace looking for a structures engineer to work on airplanes by chance...not really likely since boeing laid off a few thousand of those not to long ago. We discussed DH going back OTR but thats not really a good prospect either. DHs mother told him to go be a traveling welder but somehow thats doesnt seem to stable either 

I'm not from the south  I was born and raised in Michigan but my family is not like these other northern wackos we all take care of each other as best we can and dont thrive on other peoples misery. I do not like the North, i never have so i've lived all over pennsylvania, new york, indiana, kansas, minnosota, tennessee, alabama, georgia, greece and michigan of course. DH is from Iowa but also lived in kansas and texas. We will probly some day move south but we are waiting on my mom and step-dad to be ready to move, they are not yet. My real dad has a lot of health problems from serving in Vietnam and agent orange so i dont think he will be around a lot longer and i would feel poopy if i moved and missed his last few years.



Latestarter said:


> Stress is a killer... seriously. So sad that you have to deal with the owners & their crap, but I guess it's all part and parcel of the terms for the property you're getting. Have to take the good with the bad... If the house was in perfect condition and the farm as well, you wouldn't be able to afford the purchase price, but the loan would be a "gimme". Lenders haven't "forgotten" the recent mortgage melt down and are still "scared" to do any loan that doesn't perfectly fit their refined definitions. To the best of my knowledge, the present owners do NOT have free access to the property once closing happens.
> 
> There should be a "walk through" the day of closing before the actual close for you, the buyers, to make sure that the sellers haven't removed anything that should have been included in the sale either by contract or by law (plumbing, electric, attached fixtures such as lighting, etc). They sellers should have removed all their personal belongings before closing and anything left behind becomes the property of the buyer unless specified in the purchase/sales contract. So their hoard becomes yours to deal with whether you wanted it or not. You can place a gate and lock it barring access to the property should you wish and with a no trespass sign/notice, they would be be in serious trouble if they entered the property and guilty of theft if they remove anything.
> 
> I hope the financing comes through for you, especially considering all the work you've already done toward property improvement. There is a lesson to be learned in all that somewhere...



Technically speaking with my salary alone according to the bank i can afford 187k for a buying price but i dont have the roughly 20k for down payment and closing costs and i wouldnt wanna pay that high of a monthly payment lol. The banks are definately being difficult we tried to refinace our care loan about a year and a half ago and when it came down to it they said they couldnt do it because it would end up upside down....i thought the vast majority of most vehicle loans did anyway but they denied us in the end. The last car payment will be January 2018 on our current loan.

I don't know if there would be a walk thru or not since none of this is done thru a real estate agent. The lesson is life will try to screw you if it can  but we should have known that already.



NH homesteader said:


> My husband has dyslexia so my brain auto corrects I think, lol. So I have no issues reading your posts!
> 
> My stepdad's best friend is a real estate agent and he said it's super hard to get a loan right now. People keep being rejected last minute, etc. People who should have no issues. It's making his life difficult also, not being able to close sales.
> 
> Dumb people? Gosh... We have some real dumb people here too. I do wonder why we pay so much in school taxes when they're obviously not doing a very good job! Just post something on Craigslist and try to tell me people are smart!



Oh i know, i posted those two adult ram mutts on CL and the first response i got was "Have they have babies before?" I told them they had fathered babies before...to which they replied "They are not girls?" The ad says Ram in the title and the body says HE is a proven breeder and has sired several lambs 



Baymule said:


> We bought our place with a FHA loan. Buying a used mobile home seems to be some sort of a big deal. it being a HUD repo made it even worse. After we sold our old house, we paid this place off. I hope you can get your financing done soon.



We talked about doing FHA but the place isnt up to code at all. Hopefully whatever we find out is good news.

DH talked to the finance guy yesterday. I guess his partner/boss ended up having to go have emergency surgery so he didnt get down here to look at the place but said he would come down friday and for DH to call him around noon friday. He asked what we had for a down payment and we told him so hopefully it is enough for them. I am hoping they will also take into account we have leased it for a year and a half and put a bunch of money and work into it already but who knows.


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## NH homesteader

on the rams. We are trying to move south, my mom and step-dad will likely join us down there when my mom retires in 3 years. 

Being up north is hard, it's a very individualist mindset. Plus our ground is frozen for 6 months out of the year and that's not helpful for being self sufficient! I hope you can escape someday!


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> on the rams. We are trying to move south, my mom and step-dad will likely join us down there when my mom retires in 3 years.
> 
> Being up north is hard, it's a very individualist mindset. Plus our ground is frozen for 6 months out of the year and that's not helpful for being self sufficient! I hope you can escape someday!



That's because only smart people  move out of the North, lucky people are born in the south and never have to live in the north lol. I know lots of people like the north but i think the snow and long winters has driven them to delusions.


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## NH homesteader

Hahaha I liked it when I went snowmobiling every weekend and wasn't farming.... Now I don't have time to go snowmobiling because I'm too busy lugging hot water to the animals 3x/day!


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## samssimonsays

I am with you all on the north. It has beaten me down hard this winter. 50+ mph winds tore nicely built things apart yesterday. I was born here as well and never felt like I fit in nor did I want to. Always wanted to get as far south as possible. That won't happen ever now. Sigh. I will live through those who can escape.


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## CntryBoy777

Okay, I understand. You sound alot like Joyce, when we met she was looking to Flee and I told her in no uncertain terms that I wasn't moving to Michigan. She said good, because she was Leaving. She was born in Gaylord and was in Mt Morris...a suburb of Flint. I really hope it all gets sorted out for ya and ya can move forward. I hate to be a "Fair Weather" friend, but if ya ever see me up there, it will be Summer...


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## misfitmorgan

Any ideas on what to do with 2500 bales of 1st cut grass hay?


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## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> Any ideas on what to do with 2500 bales of 1st cut grass hay?


Post it on http://www.hayexchange.com/


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Okay, I understand. You sound alot like Joyce, when we met she was looking to Flee and I told her in no uncertain terms that I wasn't moving to Michigan. She said good, because she was Leaving. She was born in Gaylord and was in Mt Morris...a suburb of Flint. I really hope it all gets sorted out for ya and ya can move forward. I hate to be a "Fair Weather" friend, but if ya ever see me up there, it will be Summer...



Haha i dont blame you i would be fair weather if i could too but winter just wont cooperate. I actually live 2 hrs southeast of gaylord..spent lots of time there though.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Post it on http://www.hayexchange.com/



Thanks a lot @Baymule  found some people a couple hours away looking for monthly delivery in the few hundred bales range, shall see if we can make that work out. I'm also going to post an ad of my own of course.


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## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> Hahaha I liked it when I went snowmobiling every weekend and wasn't farming.... Now I don't have time to go snowmobiling because I'm too busy lugging hot water to the animals 3x/day!



And lately there hasn't been enough snow for any activities outside of where there is snowmaking. I think we had enough snow this year for my wife to snowshoe around the property maybe a total of 2 weeks. The snowmobile trails we pass were down to dirt after only a day of sleds running on them.


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## NH homesteader

Same as last year! We went snowshoeing twice this year


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## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> Thanks a lot @Baymule  found some people a couple hours away looking for monthly delivery in the few hundred bales range, shall see if we can make that work out. I'm also going to post an ad of my own of course.


check out drought areas. In 2011, we were in a terrible drought and had to buy hay from other states-even through the summer. Prices were high.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> check out drought areas. In 2011, we were in a terrible drought and had to buy hay from other states-even through the summer. Prices were high.



I didnt think anyone was in drought this past year. We have the hay priced at $3/bale and it still isnt selling. I checked the auction prices atm it is going for $1.50-3/bale, normally the hay market is good but it never got cold enough here for long enough to kill the grass until January so a lot of people havnt used much hay.

I checked prices in the usual areas flordia and texas ....lol They both look like $4-5/bale which wouldnt pay the trucking cost DH says unless we had a full load of 600 odd bales and then there is the problem of who to sell it to once it is there. I don't know how any of that works.


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## NH homesteader

We had a pretty bad drought last year. Hay prices are up, not sure how the supply is at this point because I bought from a friend. We usually pay around $5/bale ($3 if we get it in the field). One guy in my town was getting $6/bale in the field last year


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> We had a pretty bad drought last year. Hay prices are up, not sure how the supply is at this point because I bought from a friend. We usually pay around $5/bale ($3 if we get it in the field). One guy in my town was getting $6/bale in the field last year



Here people are piling up their hay and burning it. One farm burned over 500 round bales so far this year.


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## NH homesteader

Burning hay?


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## CntryBoy777

Well here hay is $6.50/bale and Tifton 44 bermuda is all that is available as far as quality is concerned...and that is all that is produced here. It is probably cheaper to burn than to ship. I'd love to be able to make a trip up there and help ya out, but since my goats don't know any difference, I don't want to spoil them to it, run out, and then listen to their complaints when they have to go back to bermuda.


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Burning hay?



Yeah lots of farms do it...or purposely let it get rained on so they can claim the insurance on it because it pays out higher then we can sell it for. The problem atm is normal prices for us are $4-5/bale this time of year, at cutting time its $3-4/bale, year old hay is $2-3/bale and 2 year old hay is $1/bale.

So this year was a bumper crop year for hay, but so was last year. So all these farmers have 2016 and 2015 and 2014 hay because the market up here is flooded combine that with a mild winter two years in a row and you get perfect gorgeous 2016 hay selling at 1.50/bale. Straight alfalfa 2nd cut is $3/bale, 3rd cut alfalfa is $4.50. Generally straw is $2-2.50/bale its $1.50-2.25/bale atm.

We have an abundance of farmers turning under hay fields to plant row crops the past year so maybe that will help but i doubt it. So yeah there is this huge backlog of hay just sitting around and when your hay lot or your hay loft or hay barn gets full and the next season's crop is coming what do you do with it? 

You could try to sell if to a broker but atm they are either not buying or paying $3/bale some are down to $2.50/bale. You could try trucking it someplace yourself but it has to be someplace with a high enough price to cover the cost of trucking and you need a buyer at the other end before you truck it.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Well here hay is $6.50/bale and Tifton 44 bermuda is all that is available as far as quality is concerned...and that is all that is produced here. It is probably cheaper to burn than to ship. I'd love to be able to make a trip up there and help ya out, but since my goats don't know any difference, I don't want to spoil them to it, run out, and then listen to their complaints when they have to go back to bermuda.



Thats ok we can just bring you 600 bales....bet that would hold for a minute, just let me know when the hay barn is built


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## misfitmorgan

I found two places down state one is looking for 100-200 bales a month and the other is looking for 300-600 bales a year. Great except it is 3hrs from me and the most we can haul at once is 100 bales unless we pay for trucking and then it would be around 600 bales we would need to sell. So we could pay to truck down 600 bales and pay for a storage space and go down once a month and take the lady her 100-200 bales and the other lady how much ever she needs. By the time gas and time and cost of hay and trucking is all calculated in i dont think we could sell for less then $5/bale and locally they sell for $5/bale. It's also for horses and they can be some picky picky people around here.


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> We had a pretty bad drought last year. Hay prices are up, not sure how the supply is at this point because I bought from a friend. We usually pay around $5/bale ($3 if we get it in the field). One guy in my town was getting $6/bale in the field last year



Far as i can tell there is absolutely not shortage is hay in New Hampshire atm lol. Most are advertising for $6-8/bale but still quite a few selling 1st and 2nd cut at $4-5/bale. Just one ad states they have over 70,000 bales for sale lol. So we need more drought lol.

DH says he could take the hay and make a hay storage barn.....out of the hay and mud/clay...etc. Or build us a house with it....i told him i would pass on both i think


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## NH homesteader

Hahah yeah I think people raise the prices because of the drought but got plenty of hay anyway. Jerks!
Was that all listed on the site Bay posted?


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Hahah yeah I think people raise the prices because of the drought but got plenty of hay anyway. Jerks!
> Was that all listed on the site Bay posted?



Nope, listed on CL. I looked at both though.


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## NH homesteader

A lot of people bring in big loads from out of state and sell off the extra. I'll have to check CL


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> A lot of people bring in big loads from out of state and sell off the extra. I'll have to check CL



I'm sure, i would do the same thing if i lived someplace that had higher prices and a lack of hay lol.


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## farmerjan

Rather than burn it, I would sell to a hay broker.  But, what about getting some feeder steers or heifers and market the hay through them?  You can buy some mediocre stuff here for under 1.00 lb and if you fed all this hay to them, and they only brought 1.00 lb and they gained 3-400 lbs you still would be a bit ahead of the game.  We have a big surplus due to the milder winter, but I would rather carry over 500 or 1,000 round bales than not be able to find it.  And we are holding back more of the young stock and feeding it  so that they will bring more per head even if less per pound since we have the hay.  In fact a neighbor gave us some 2 year old wrapped hay that we are rolling out on the ground and they are picking what they want and the rest they are laying on and the benefit is it is adding organic matter back into the soil.  I have never heard of anyone burning hay here.  They will usually just roll it out on poorer ground or use it to fill in gullies etc if it gets too old.  
And purposely letting it get spoiled to collect insurance is just unbelievable.  I can't imagine a farmer doing that here.  At 1.00 a small sq. bale for mulch hay, it is better than burning it.  But yes, it costs more than 3.00 a sq. bale to make it and we can't make enough small square bales to keep up with the demand.  Yes there are alot of farmers that are selling it cheap to be able to make room for this years crop of hay.....I don't know the answer.  We will probably carry over 7-800 rolls by the looks of it....but again, from weather that is up in the 60's we are due to drop to the 30's with the possibility of snow this weekend now...How crazy can you get.  The cows have been going through alot of hay in the past 2 weeks, 'cuz there is nothing to pick through in the fields  yet, even with the temps saying spring.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> DH says he could take the hay and make a hay storage barn.....out of the hay and mud/clay...etc. Or build us a house with it....i told him i would pass on both i think



Actually straw bale houses are kinda popular and really well insulated. Other than the really thick walls, you can't tell them from a regular stick built house once they are finished other than people wanting to make the uniqueness of it apparent. Not sure what bad things happen if you use hay instead of straw though.


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## Baymule

Square bales of Bermuda grass hay here goes for $10 to $12  at feed stores, including TSC. Individual sales are around $6


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Rather than burn it, I would sell to a hay broker.  But, what about getting some feeder steers or heifers and market the hay through them?  You can buy some mediocre stuff here for under 1.00 lb and if you fed all this hay to them, and they only brought 1.00 lb and they gained 3-400 lbs you still would be a bit ahead of the game.  We have a big surplus due to the milder winter, but I would rather carry over 500 or 1,000 round bales than not be able to find it.  And we are holding back more of the young stock and feeding it  so that they will bring more per head even if less per pound since we have the hay.  In fact a neighbor gave us some 2 year old wrapped hay that we are rolling out on the ground and they are picking what they want and the rest they are laying on and the benefit is it is adding organic matter back into the soil.  I have never heard of anyone burning hay here.  They will usually just roll it out on poorer ground or use it to fill in gullies etc if it gets too old.
> And purposely letting it get spoiled to collect insurance is just unbelievable.  I can't imagine a farmer doing that here.  At 1.00 a small sq. bale for mulch hay, it is better than burning it.  But yes, it costs more than 3.00 a sq. bale to make it and we can't make enough small square bales to keep up with the demand.  Yes there are alot of farmers that are selling it cheap to be able to make room for this years crop of hay.....I don't know the answer.  We will probably carry over 7-800 rolls by the looks of it....but again, from weather that is up in the 60's we are due to drop to the 30's with the possibility of snow this weekend now...How crazy can you get.  The cows have been going through alot of hay in the past 2 weeks, 'cuz there is nothing to pick through in the fields  yet, even with the temps saying spring.



Cattle here are not cheap a 3 week old meat steer is around $500 and a 3 week old milk steer is around $250-300, as they get older the price goes up by leaps and bounds. An 11 month old milk steer sells for around $500 oddly. Sometimes you can find deals on meat steers around 4 months for about $500 but not often. We could do milk steers but if you feed them up on hay they dock you at the auction for the hay gut on them. We would also have to castrate them ourselves and dont have the equipment. We also dont own a trailer or have the pasture space for cows atm. 

We dont burn our hay other people do, lots of them. When you have 10,000 bales of 1st cut grass and you see 1st cut alfalfa selling for $3/bale there are not many options. The farmers try to hold onto to the hay as long as possible but as i said before when your hay storage is full and it is the new season there isnt a lot of choice. Atm there is so much hay going thru the auction the prices are nose diving badly like it cost as much to get it there as you make. The hay brokers have stopped buying hay which is what is making everyone resort to the auctions. At the beginning of winter brokers were buying for $8/bale those that got in on that deal are doing fine, by december the brokers dropped to paying $3/bale and by February they stopped buying.

We are not allowed to roll out hay and just leave it, nor fill in gullies with it. If you leave old hay piled up to long the county will come by and sight you with a ticket because it is a fire hazard. DEQ will come try to sight you when you burn hay too but most just say it started on its own....musta had a few hot bales, etc. 

The ones who let their hay get rained on are the same ones who will not poorly plant a soybean field to collect as well. These are not the smaller or mid-level farmers these are the big corporate ones that moved in. One in particular is well known for it but when you farm about 80,000 acres i guess you dont care about ethics anymore. This same farm will let the hay get rained on, collect and then round bale it and sell it for $5-15 a bale.

We dont really have hay shortages here so no one worries. Back in 2011-2012 we had a "drought" and hay prices got high like $9/bale but only for about 2 months then the brokers brought in hay from other places and the price fell back down. Far as i know that is the only time hay has gone over $5/bale in something like 35 years.

We do want to get steers/cattle but atm we just are not set up for it and with the possibility of not being able to get our financing its not a good time to try to sink money into livestock we might have to take to the auction.



Bruce said:


> Actually straw bale houses are kinda popular and really well insulated. Other than the really thick walls, you can't tell them from a regular stick built house once they are finished other than people wanting to make the uniqueness of it apparent. Not sure what bad things happen if you use hay instead of straw though.



I know they are but so far i havnt seen/heard of a single one being built here. I think the problem with hay would be the heat/moisture trapped in the bale, maybe if you used year old hay where it had had time to dry out. I dunno i havnt looked into it much yet. I wonder how the insurance companies feel about straw/hay houses.. lol



Baymule said:


> Square bales of Bermuda grass hay here goes for $10 to $12  at feed stores, including TSC. Individual sales are around $6



Only thing at our TSC is compressed timothy bales for $18.50/bale. I dont know anyone who uses it.


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## Baymule

If I ever saw alfalfa selling for $3 a bale, I would crap my pants, quickly change clothes, then buy all I could get. Nothing here but grass hay, Alfalfa is brought in and is high. Never buy it


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> If I ever saw alfalfa selling for $3 a bale, I would crap my pants, quickly change clothes, then buy all I could get. Nothing here but grass hay, Alfalfa is brought in and is high. Never buy it



We got 4x5(750-850lbs) round 1st cut alfalfa STORED INSIDE selling for $45 from what i see too.

We have 4x4 grass 1st cut stored inside for $15 or 4x5 grass 1st cut for $15

Large squares 3x3x7(875lbs) stored indoors...includes free indoor storage thru winter for $40/bale

There is a guy selling 1st cut alfalfa, timothy, and brome RFV 105 for $4/bale which is pretty good for alfalfa mix hay

Lots of others selling 1st cut alfalfa mix for $3-3.50/bale, several selling 2nd cut alfalfa for $4/bale, and i found one guy with 3rd cut alfalfa who has 50 bales left and only wants $10/bale. He hit his head on something im sure of it 

If we get the farm we plan on planting some alfalfa so maybe we could bring you some if we ever visit texas!


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## misfitmorgan

I am so angry right now i don't even know what to do with myself.

DH got the call back from the private investor.....they dont want to finance the property because there is a trailer house on it  The very first conversation DH had with the guy was telling him what exactly was on the property and that we couldnt get bank financing because of the trailer house So instead of telling us 2.5 weeks ago that no they weren't interested, he came and looked at it first and went "oh wait there is a trailer?" apparently. I'm so so angry atm.

First the property owners jerk us around for 4 months, then the bank jerked us around for a month, then FSA jerked us around for 2 months and now this guy jerked us around for 2 and half weeks....meanwhile we are paying $700/month for rent now.

Stinking livid atm.

So the bank won't finance us because the trailer is to old, FSA wont finance us because we cant prove farming experience, FHA won't because we are not up to code, and the private lender won't because there is a trailer. I think we are out of options, we have both made ourselves physically ill with ulcers and being perpetually sick, not able to sleep, stressed to he** and back...i dont know what else to do.

I have the credit and the down payment and no one will finance us for 45k....i mean 45k thats like nothing to them, people buy cars for that much.


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## NH homesteader

Ughhh so sorry. You can't get a personal loan or anything? Seriously that is obnoxious.


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## Bruce

Only $45K? Geez, yeah LOTS of people buy cars for that amount and a whole lot more as well!!!! What would the place be worth if it was just open land? I don't remember how many acres it is.  I would think just the land and that big barn would be worth a few $10Ks.

Maybe ask the private investors what they value the property at. 

Could be @CntryBoy777 was right a few pages back, some things aren't meant to be and there is something better just around the corner.


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## Mike CHS

I can't imagine how frustrating this is for you guys.


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## CntryBoy777

What if lightning strikes the trlr and it was to Burn...would they loan ya the money then?.....if ya had it removed from the property, would they loan it then?....can ya section the parcel with the trlr on it out of the collateral for the loan amount ya need? It might be well worth your while to consult a " Land Lawyer" for an understanding of the full options available to you....most intial consults are Free. I am not advocating the destruction of the trlr, but if that is the excuse, remove the barrier. Some insulated rooms in the barn may be home til ga can do better, if the land and opportunity is worth it to you. You are heading into Spring and Summer up there...so, ya have a few mnths to get an add-on to the barn....y'all ever camp for a couple of mnths?
If it doesn't mean That much to ya, then cut the Losses and find a "New Boat" to get ya to where you are going. The only thing is ya both have to be "Paddling" in the same direction, or the boat will never get ya there...cause it is either standing still or flowing in the opposite direction. Life is much too short to be "Bogged Down" into vicious cycles of "Bottomless Pits" that ya never seem to get out of the tar.


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## Latestarter

IMHO, cut your losses and run... You told me about another place right around the corner from you that you recommended that I should look into... Maybe you should look into it? Find some acreage with a real house on it and go from there... Or find a "tent home" you can rent monthly for cheap and buy raw land for your farm. You have to keep in mind that the powers that be in this country do NOT want individual farmers anymore... they want huge corporate entities so that they will have full control over our food supply/chain. They don't want individuals able to support themselves and not be controlled. I hope something good happens to/for you to help you get the start you need toward the future you want.


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## Latestarter

Another option that just dawned on me is you can look in local adverts for an "angel investor" or advertise for one your self. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_investor


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## Baymule

What about Go Fund Me webpage? people go on there all the time asking for money for ridiculous reasons and get money given to them. Tell your story and see what happens.

Or maybe this isn't the place you are supposed to have. Maybe there is a better one coming up.

Really sorry that ya'll are having to go through this.


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Ughhh so sorry. You can't get a personal loan or anything? Seriously that is obnoxious.



No personal loan my bank only loans up to 25k on personal loans because its actually a credit union i guess...i dunno.

Th land itself is 20 acres and worth $1,500/acre with a dwelling and $500/acre without, plus they add on for the barn, outbuildings, paved road, etc. According to the county it is atm assessed at $22,500 it was assessed at $23,100 when we started our original lease. Lack of building repairs/clean up is making it drop still, if some repairs or something dont get done soon i think 2017 assessment will be $22,200.

Maybe but DH doesn't wanna give up yet.



Mike CHS said:


> I can't imagine how frustrating this is for you guys.



Definitely.



CntryBoy777 said:


> What if lightning strikes the trlr and it was to Burn...would they loan ya the money then?.....if ya had it removed from the property, would they loan it then?....can ya section the parcel with the trlr on it out of the collateral for the loan amount ya need? It might be well worth your while to consult a " Land Lawyer" for an understanding of the full options available to you....most intial consults are Free. I am not advocating the destruction of the trlr, but if that is the excuse, remove the barrier. Some insulated rooms in the barn may be home til ga can do better, if the land and opportunity is worth it to you. You are heading into Spring and Summer up there...so, ya have a few mnths to get an add-on to the barn....y'all ever camp for a couple of mnths?
> If it doesn't mean That much to ya, then cut the Losses and find a "New Boat" to get ya to where you are going. The only thing is ya both have to be "Paddling" in the same direction, or the boat will never get ya there...cause it is either standing still or flowing in the opposite direction. Life is much too short to be "Bogged Down" into vicious cycles of "Bottomless Pits" that ya never seem to get out of the tar.



The problem with not having a dwelling is the valvue drops to much for the bank to finance then, it goes from 45k to 10k plus some for the barn, outbuildings, etc. The bank can finance us as vacant land or recreation land but because of the lower value of the "land without a dwelling" regardless of the trailer physically being there or not we have to pay 40%($18,000) for a down payment, still have PMI added to our payments and they would prefer if we paid closing costs out of pocket but it might be approved without it. We dont have 18k laying around, we had 20% for the down payment plus some for closing costs and then we lost my brother and everything went sideways and they started charging $700/month rent so now we are down to around 10%, when we talked to the bank we had 20% and it was still a no.

We are also not allowed to simply live in the barn, whether we build rooms or not because we would not have an occupancy permit. To get the permit it would require inspection and the barn would not meet code for living in it. We could camp on the property but again that requires a different permit to allow us to camp, this permit is usually only given when you are building a new home and is a temporary permit for 1 year or less. Our county allows not more then 5 people to camp on one property for not more then 30 days with this permit or being a registered/licensed/inspected campground.

We spent the first year together "camping"... we illegally lived in DH's old bosses rock quarry in a travel trailer. We had electric and a well but no septic which i hated lol. Anyhow there was no rent and we had a 7 acre quarry to let our first goats and our chickens run around on. 

I know i am ready to cut our losses but DH does not want too.



Latestarter said:


> IMHO, cut your losses and run... You told me about another place right around the corner from you that you recommended that I should look into... Maybe you should look into it? Find some acreage with a real house on it and go from there... Or find a "tent home" you can rent monthly for cheap and buy raw land for your farm. You have to keep in mind that the powers that be in this country do NOT want individual farmers anymore... they want huge corporate entities so that they will have full control over our food supply/chain. They don't want individuals able to support themselves and not be controlled. I hope something good happens to/for you to help you get the start you need toward the future you want.



All the places I showed you sold already, they were good deals the only things left atm with land are not good deals like 80 acres for 190k(which we dont have near enough money to cover down payment for) or 20 acres for 70k(again not enough for down payment now). There is one place that might work as a back up but it is definitely not ideal. 20acres for 30k no out buildings and the "house" is actually a 890sqft hunting camp built in 1950. Whether the bank would see that as a "homestead" viable place i'm not sure. It does have water, electric, septic, etc. We would need to build shelter for all the animals and put up fencing. It would provide firewood for us, but the clearing area is only about an acre so we would have to fence thru the woods...which wouldnt be horrible for the animals. The other plus is the property backs up to federal land. It's not super great but it would be livable i think.



Latestarter said:


> Another option that just dawned on me is you can look in local adverts for an "angel investor" or advertise for one your self. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_investor



The guy who just turned us down was a private investor. There are two other private investors but their rates are way more shark loan then the first guys and we want to try to avoid them.



Baymule said:


> What about Go Fund Me webpage? people go on there all the time asking for money for ridiculous reasons and get money given to them. Tell your story and see what happens.
> 
> Or maybe this isn't the place you are supposed to have. Maybe there is a better one coming up.
> 
> Really sorry that ya'll are having to go through this.



I dunno if crowd-funding would work for us. Generally they are only successful if you have several 100 people (aka your community or company) already promoting it. It's a good thought but a super long shot i think and it would take a long time.

ATM DH wants to keep trying at this place, so we shall. The next option is take out a loan to make up the difference between the money we have and the 9k the land owners originally said they wanted for a land contract and try to do a land contract but there is no way we are doing it for more then $350/month for the payment.

Our car payments are done in 10 months so that will help things out a lot.


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## CntryBoy777

I certainly hope ya can work things out, and that the situation does turn in your favor. There wasn't any harsh tone used in my earlier post, it is how my mind and thought process works...just thinking of every avenue...not that ya haven't, but was just exhausting possibilities for ya. Believe me, I'm in your "Corner" and anything worth having is certainly worth fighting for....Good Luck...and my brain will keep churning for ya.. .


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## Baymule

I hope things work out for ya'll.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> I certainly hope ya can work things out, and that the situation does turn in your favor. There wasn't any harsh tone used in my earlier post, it is how my mind and thought process works...just thinking of every avenue...not that ya haven't, but was just exhausting possibilities for ya. Believe me, I'm in your "Corner" and anything worth having is certainly worth fighting for....Good Luck...and my brain will keep churning for ya.. .



I didn't take anything as harsh, no worries @CntryBoy777 i have a pretty thick skin and dont take most things in a negative way.



Baymule said:


> I hope things work out for ya'll.


Thank you @Baymule 

I listed the two adult Bond cross rams, the 3-4 month old bond/polypay cross lamb, the suffolk lamb, the twin boer/alpine bucks and the nubian/alpine buck all for sale last thursday. 
The bond/polypay cross lamb is being looked at tomorrow and if they like him they will take him Saturday after giving me a deposit thursday. The two adult bond cross rams are on hold until we see if the lady wants the bond/polypay ram lamb and if she does not, the person taking the adult ram wants him.
All 3 bucks kids are awaiting the deposit to arrive, if it shows up they will be on hold until they are 4 weeks old before being send to a golf course a couple hours away to be used as brush hogs so to speak for the native areas of the course.
So the only one not on hold is the suffolk ram lamb. Thankfully DH pointed out i did my math wrong and he was conceived before the bond cross adult rams came..so he is full suffolk which i am much happier about.
So....picture time.

Adult Bond Cross Polled Ram



 

Adult Horned Bond Cross Ram


 

Bond cross lamb


 

Suffolk Lamb


 

Goat kids


 


 

Everyone had just woken up so was cold or cold and hungry. The animals are hating this cold snap.


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## Bruce

Looks like SOMEONE has warm feet!


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Looks like SOMEONE has warm feet!



For sure..that is his mom he is standing on  the poor girl.

Am i posting enough pictures for all of you?? 

Alos DH brought home a borrowed boar last night....only about 600-700lbs 
Hopefully he is gonna breed the open sows and gilts since we ate our boar. We don't think Eva took her AI, if she did she is hiding it super well as her due date was 03/14. If she is not bred she will go in with the boar to and then after her first litter she will be AI'ed again. She was from the same Sire as our boar so i hope she doesnt have a fertility issue as well.


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## Baymule

I hope Eva takes this time. I had to look up bond sheep. Their wool sounds like it would be nice to work with. Do you spin or knit?


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I hope Eva takes this time. I had to look up bond sheep. Their wool sounds like it would be nice to work with. Do you spin or knit?



Atm i wash it and it gets stored lol. I need to get more equipment when i have time to actually make something and i would like to learn to spin. I do not knit but i crochet, DH knits.


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## CntryBoy777

The animals look so "Comfy" on the inside, and they are so cute. My Mom used to knit and crochet quite a bit. She preferred crocheting and did many things...mainly afghans in her later yrs. She had RA and would do it thru the winter to keep her hands limber. The last couple of yrs she was with us, she had to stop because her hands were deformed to the point she couldn't hold the needle any longer.


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## Latestarter

OK, so sometimes I'm kinda slow to add 2 & 2... $700/month seems an extreme amount of rent to charge on a piece of property with no (govt) acceptable residence and a total property value of under $50K... Am I missing something here?  How much are you offering to pay for this property? And how much of a loan are you trying for that you can't get from a bank? I would think that you could use the raw land value as collateral for a personal loan. If I had the money, I'd write the loan for you.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> The animals look so "Comfy" on the inside, and they are so cute. My Mom used to knit and crochet quite a bit. She preferred crocheting and did many things...mainly afghans in her later yrs. She had RA and would do it thru the winter to keep her hands limber. The last couple of yrs she was with us, she had to stop because her hands were deformed to the point she couldn't hold the needle any longer.



They seem comfy mostly. I had one grandma that crocheted, my other grandma did embrodury. red turkey, and knitting, my great grandma made lace, my mom crochets, sews and cross stitches. I crochet, sew, and cross stitch lol. We mostly make afghans too i have probly 7 of them mostly from my grandma but i also like to do fun stuff like a popcorn stitch stuffed sheep.



Latestarter said:


> OK, so sometimes I'm kinda slow to add 2 & 2... $700/month seems an extreme amount of rent to charge on a piece of property with no (govt) acceptable residence and a total property value of under $50K... Am I missing something here?  How much are you offering to pay for this property? And how much of a loan are you trying for that you can't get from a bank? I would think that you could use the raw land value as collateral for a personal loan. If I had the money, I'd write the loan for you.



Thats what we thought too. They arbitrarily picked $700/month because thats how much they wanted and it has little to nothing to do with the actual property value. The offer for the property to buy it is $45,000, the bank loan would be right around $55,000 after closing costs and all the fees and whatnot. The bank wont do it as any type of first time homeowners or even any sort of residence at all. One bank offered to do it as vacant property even though it isnt, and another offered to do it as recreational property, another bank offered to do a new construction loan so we could put a house on it but the house would need to be move in ready in 6 months for a modular, they do not allow mobile.

Vacant land option wanted 40% Down and APR 5.16% Down Payment - $18,000
Recreational Land wanted 40% Down min and APR 4.66% Down Payment - $18,000
New construction loan would take 20% Down with APR of 2.49% but that would bring the loan up from $55,000 to approximately $140,000 for a SMALL house. Down Payment - $28,000
I only have 20% of $45,000 for the down payment because that is all i was expecting to need and with rent at $700/month i can only save about $300/month so to even get the other 9k i would need to do the first two options it would take me 2.5yrs.

It is crumby but we are offering them a land contract with 20% down and if they refuse it we will start looking for another place. The problem is not my credit or my income I qualify for a $189,000 home loan even with having a high car payment and without counting DH's earnings and i was approved for a signature loan for $12,000. Problem is if I take the signature loan to get the rest of the down payment money my bank will want me to wait a year until i get the home loan.

It's a mess but we shall see what happens. If we get the land contract everything is black and white and then we can put a newer trailer on the place that meets code just to get it refinanced under a bank. Definitely not putting a new trailer on for them though. The trailer would only need to be a 1978 or newer to qualify assuming it is this year, 1979 if it is next year and so on.


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## Bruce

Geez.

OK so what if the sleazeball current owners take the 20% land contract AT A REASONABLE interest rate and you fix up the "guest house" that burned as you planned. Could you then go to the bank right needing only $36K to pay off your loan?  Hmm, or not; you just gave the deposit money to the current owners and now you need another $7,200  Or would they give you a Zero down because you already have 20% equity (and no mortgage insurance  )


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## Baymule

Finance Hell has struck again. So sorry you are dealing with this. I just read back some old threads on TEG when we bought this place. It's funny now......


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## Bruce

Right, funny ... NOW!


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## Latestarter

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "funny" but for sure a heck of a lot less stressful! At least in my situation.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Geez.
> 
> OK so what if the sleazeball current owners take the 20% land contract AT A REASONABLE interest rate and you fix up the "guest house" that burned as you planned. Could you then go to the bank right needing only $36K to pay off your loan?  Hmm, or not; you just gave the deposit money to the current owners and now you need another $7,200  Or would they give you a Zero down because you already have 20% equity (and no mortgage insurance  )



Yes we could go to the bank needing only 36k to pay it off but the contract was for 5years so when we went to the bank it would actually only be for 26k...unless we went early.  The Land contract would be a re-finance and since we would have already paid almost 50% we would have been re-financing it as 0 down with no PMI because we gained more then enough interest in the property at that point.

However, after saying they would do a Land Contract....they have rejected our offer and said they are not interested in a land contract at all now.

The LC we offered was 20% Down - $9,000
Amortized on a 30 year schedule, with a balloon at 5years.
APR 7%
They would have gotten 9k cash and made almost $13,000 in 5years in interest alone. In the end they would actually have made just short of $58,000 on their property instead of the $45,000 asking price.

So anyhow that was my last ditch effort to buy the farm and they rejected it so that's that unless some rich relative i didnt know i had croaks and leaves me 36k lol.

They did agree to lower the rent....called and told us they would lower it to $600/month 
$600/month is still way over priced but for now we will pay it. 

I have not found anyplace we like that is a reasonable distant from my work. DH wants min 20 acres but would prefer 40 or more, he demands there be barns...not pole buildings but barns and I demand there be a house, i dont care if it is a modular or what but something post 1990 trailer at the very least. I did find one i love and i know DH likes it, it's got 3 barns and a nice house on 80 acres 40% field/60% wooded with a little stream that runs thru it, Only problem is atm it is listed quite high considering it sold for 1/3 the price the end of 2005 aka right before the housing bubble burst and there have been no improvements made to it.

So we are going to pay our stupid rent and watch places that are for sale and see what happens while we save the small amount of "extra" money we have each month.

On the bright side my boss told me i should get a raise shortly(in boss speak sometime between now and 12/31/17) which would be an approx 18% pay increase yearly


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## NH homesteader

I'm sorry to hear you're needing to look elsewhere but it sounds like the best (and perhaps only) plan at this point. DH and I lost a good deal of money last year from a business plan that didn't end well (it ended great for the other guy). It's hard to accept and move on but also good to know where you stand. 

A raise would be lovely! Perhaps it will help you find an even nicer place soon!


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> I'm sorry to hear you're needing to look elsewhere but it sounds like the best (and perhaps only) plan at this point. DH and I lost a good deal of money last year from a business plan that didn't end well (it ended great for the other guy). It's hard to accept and move on but also good to know where you stand.
> 
> A raise would be lovely! Perhaps it will help you find an even nicer place soon!



For what I make currently i could buy more house/property then i want, i mean it is fun and nice to say oh yes i can afford that $XXX,000 place but do you really wanna pay over $1,000/month plus high taxes...no lol. Ideally i think i would feel comfortable with something around the 95-120k range which would be $400-500/month including taxes and insurance. The only benefit to us waiting is we have the option to pay off my car early and save about 2.5k there and have more fluid income to put back into the savings, still not sure if we will do that or not.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> On the bright side my boss told me i should get a raise shortly(in boss speak sometime between now and 12/31/17) which would be an approx 18% pay increase yearly


Whoa, nice!

Time to seriously look at other properties, something will come up, you just need to be looking when it shows up. 7% is ridiculous given bank loans on houses is more like 4%. If you can dump the $100 on your car loan and pay it off early, that is likely a good bet. I don't suppose it is a low interest loan and that can't be written off your income taxes so it is nothing but a loss.

That property you like probably wasn't affected by the housing bubble bursting. They are asking what they HOPE some clueless rich person from out of the area will pay. How long has it been on the market? The price will come down when no "big city slicker that has no idea what it is really worth" comes by and plunks down the asking price or close to it.


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## farmerjan

If I had the fluid money I would also give you a private mtg but I just don't.  I cannot believe that land prices there are so low compared to here in Va.  
If it were me, I would pay off the car early.  You will be saving all around, give you a more liquid cash flow to put away towards a down payment, or to just have for an emergency fund once you find something else and can meet whatever down payment you need.
I also would obviously not do one more thing to clean up or fix anything there, and I would be very careful to itemize and take pictures of all equipment that is yours.  I wouldn't trust them to not try to claim more stuff that is yours as they have tried to do in the past.  Rabbit cages, hay feeders, EVERYTHING. Maybe put it all in one place and keep it together so that it doesn't grow legs...

Also, get the lowered rent payment in writing....for your protection.


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## farmerjan

Make an offer on that property that you like, even if it is priced high right now. Since it sold for 1/3 in 2005, offer them half of what they are asking;  or see if there are any other somewhat similiar places that you can get a little better feel of a reasonable offer price.  Offers don't have to be accepted....you never know...they just might sit on it a little while and if there hasn't been any activity due to the over pricing...they just might decide to accept it, or counter.


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## babsbag

I just read through many pages of your journal, somehow I missed many notifications.  

Sorry about the dealings with the owners and the financing. Have you considered having a new manufactured home placed on the land? You can get a small one at reasonable prices and then check out USDA (not FSA) for a home loan.  I am also surprised that the FSA turned you down as the Farm Ownership loan requires NO current or previous farm ownership requirements.  Also, what  about a personal loan from a place like Discover, Prosper, or Lending Club?  I also got a 50,000 signature loan a few years back from Bank of America.  The terms wouldn't be the best but if you own the land it might make it easier to get a refi in a year or two.   After refinancing our house last year and buying the land next to us I feel your pain, stuff like this can be impossible.


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## Bruce

The problem is that they don't own the land and given how whacky the current owners seem to be, even if they agreed to let @misfitmorgan put a new manufactured home on it (talk about a huge financial risk), they might change their minds on the property or the selling price. 

Seems to me all this is just a sign that the property is NOT what they should be buying. "Their" property is somewhere else.


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## farmerjan

Yeah, @Bruce , I tend to agree that their property is somewhere else.  Too much aggravation, too much work, too much mess, too much fixing up to do, too much BS with the current owners.  But I well understand that you see something, think it will be a good deal, start doing stuff, see the potential, and put alot of yourself into it.....but, believe me, life is too short to continue to beat your head against the wall ;  OR to saddle yourself with something that will be an even bigger millstone around your neck, down the road.  
Misfit...I think you have better things coming, just let it happen.  When it does you will say,   whew, so glad we didn't get stuck with that other place.


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## babsbag

Buy the land with a construction loan. It would lock the current owners into a contract that they can't back out of. As part of the construction loan the house gets placed on the land and then it is converted to a conventional loan when the house is done. It would be the same as buying vacant land and putting a home on it.  USDA does not require a down payment either. 

As far as this not being "their" spot, that may be the case. Years and years ago I "laid down the fleece" on a house...if the financing went through we would buy it; if not, I would not pursue other options and we would walk away. DH was newly self employed so we had no verifiable income and they wouldn't give us the loan. I regretted that decision on my part for the next 15 years. 

There may very well be a better home but I know they like this one so just laying out some options that maybe (doubtful...I'm sure she has covered all her bases) she didn't think of.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Whoa, nice!
> 
> Time to seriously look at other properties, something will come up, you just need to be looking when it shows up. 7% is ridiculous given bank loans on houses is more like 4%. If you can dump the $100 on your car loan and pay it off early, that is likely a good bet. I don't suppose it is a low interest loan and that can't be written off your income taxes so it is nothing but a loss.
> 
> That property you like probably wasn't affected by the housing bubble bursting. They are asking what they HOPE some clueless rich person from out of the area will pay. How long has it been on the market? The price will come down when no "big city slicker that has no idea what it is really worth" comes by and plunks down the asking price or close to it.



Exactly, they are hoping the downstate people who like to come up here and hunt will come pay the insane price. We went and looked at the property last night, the ad boosts "32x40 Barn, 40x50 Barn, 32x40 Building, 20x28 Detached Garage And a 26x40 Storage Building."

In reality the 26x40 storage building is newer maybe 20-30years old it has a lean-to on the south side of it for tractor storage and that building is in good shape. The garage was likely built in the 40-50s and we didnt see inside of it because the man door was locked or doesnt open not sure which. The main barn is 40x50 but it has two walls shifted from frost/corrosion(a lot) and half of the hay loft has collapsed, it has an addition on the side of it with a milk parlor and all the head gates still there, the floors are all cement through out though. The other 32x40 barn is a potato storage barn and also needs some foundation work but not like the barn, just needs some new cement buttress's put in. The potato barn would make a nice barn for goats,sheep, or pigs, the only problem there is it is right next to the property line and sandwiched between the property line and the driveway for the barns/hay field on that side. The 26x40 storage building is half of an old corn crib turned on its side so it is a half circle of tin/frame with no floor. There are also two other buildings on the property what looks like an old chicken coop with a chicken wire yard outside and i have no idea what the other building is DH looked in it and had the door shut again before i got a look. I believe both of these buildings would need to be taken apart and re-assembled but only because they are leaning, the foundations seem good on those from what i can see and they are small buildings maybe 22x16 each. The place looks like an old dairy farm and by old i mean like before large chill tanks, the cooler for the full size tin milk cans is still in the corner of the front room of the barn. If there is/was a modern chill tank i am not sure.

The tour of the place DH and i took was "unguided" and near dark lol. HD says the buildings are all fixable and aside from the main barn shouldnt take much money to fix. The loft that collapsed is we think atm from the two walls frost heaving out and the support beams losing their perch because of it. The entire loft and all of it parts looks to be there and besides some floor boards breaking the beams all look good. DH says if we crib the barn, then shove those two walls back in and sandwich the two falling walls with 8-10" of cement on either side in a wedge it should fix the foundation for our lifetime at least. The first step would be crib the barn anywhere possible and then remove the loft parts. The roof was cross cabled already.

Now for the really unimpressive part...the buildings all have stuff in them. Old stuff like an old snowmobile from probly the 60s or 70s, and other random old stuff. It is not like the place we are on now that has just junk piled in, this seems to be put in the buildings in some kind of order and actually like it was in "storage" or put away. The amount of stuff there is concerning though as i don't know where they would put it all if the place sold.

As far as outside stuff there are some fenced off areas but i couldnt tell if it was bobwire or electric or what because by the time i tried to look it was almost dark and i wasnt walking out in the long wet grass at night on property i dont know and look for bobwire lol. They do have some stuff outside behind and to the north of the barn but it is pretty minimal and mostly all metal from what we could tell.

So yes definitely need to come down on price because all total it is probly going to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $30-40,000 to fix the buildings.

The house is cute and had forced air and a outdoor wood furance, we did notice someone glued thin sheets of foam insulation around the cement block foundation and it looks like it has a basement but there is no mention of a basement in the listing other then a michigan basement. Anyhow the foam could be hinting at some sort of heating problem. The house was built in 1937 and was well cared for you can tell until about 10-12yrs ago...when it changed owners. The new owners appear to have used it for a hunting camp/place for their nearly adult kids to go play on/Up north get away and did little to nothing in the way of general upkeep such as new paint or caulk type of things. They did put in a new 5" well and build two bedrooms and an area for a bathroom in the one storage building by the house, which does have heat. 

Really they need to come down about 40k before it would be reasonable.



farmerjan said:


> If I had the fluid money I would also give you a private mtg but I just don't.  I cannot believe that land prices there are so low compared to here in Va.
> If it were me, I would pay off the car early.  You will be saving all around, give you a more liquid cash flow to put away towards a down payment, or to just have for an emergency fund once you find something else and can meet whatever down payment you need.
> I also would obviously not do one more thing to clean up or fix anything there, and I would be very careful to itemize and take pictures of all equipment that is yours.  I wouldn't trust them to not try to claim more stuff that is yours as they have tried to do in the past.  Rabbit cages, hay feeders, EVERYTHING. Maybe put it all in one place and keep it together so that it doesn't grow legs...
> 
> Also, get the lowered rent payment in writing....for your protection.



Thank you so much! Definitely planned on getting the rent change in writing. Land is cheap cheap here. I'm waiting to hear back from my loan company on what my payoff would be for the car.

We have pictures and videos of everything from the day we got on the place, thru to the day we moved in and will take more when we leave. We didn't plan on doing anything else and DH say when we move he is taking the stalls down and taking the wood with us lol.



babsbag said:


> I just read through many pages of your journal, somehow I missed many notifications.
> 
> Sorry about the dealings with the owners and the financing. Have you considered having a new manufactured home placed on the land? You can get a small one at reasonable prices and then check out USDA (not FSA) for a home loan.  I am also surprised that the FSA turned you down as the Farm Ownership loan requires NO current or previous farm ownership requirements.  Also, what  about a personal loan from a place like Discover, Prosper, or Lending Club?  I also got a 50,000 signature loan a few years back from Bank of America.  The terms wouldn't be the best but if you own the land it might make it easier to get a refi in a year or two.   After refinancing our house last year and buying the land next to us I feel your pain, stuff like this can be impossible.



No worries Babs it does the same thing to me with your journal, i have to keep checking there manually.

Far as the FSA goes she printed off the requirements thing and sent it with our denial letter and it does clearly state you must prove farm profit for at least 3 of the past 10years in a minimum of $1,000 (which apprently has to be on your tax returns but it doesnt say that part). Why she didnt just give us that in the first place i dont know. It always says you must prove farm experience for 3 of the past 10 years on the website and for "experience" i guess she used the profit thing , i dunno exactly how she does it but she told me that we didnt qualify for it because we couldnt show profit and appeared to just be a hobby farm. I don't know of anyone who would classify a farm that has row crops of corn and oats and makes 3,000+ bales of hay a year as a hobby farm but apparently she does. I asked her if there were any other programs we could do and she said no.

The problem with putting a house on would be the bank, the bank requires the home be a minimum of 900sqft for new construction and with the cost of the house, inspections, well ,septic and drain field, etc plus the cost of the property it would put us at $140,000 or more but even with a new house the property isnt worth 140k unless it was a large house which then would mean the price to put it on would be more lol. If  the other buildings were in good shape it would be and it was landscaped nice maybe but it is only 20 acres with about 7 trees on it so there can only be so much value. 
The other place we are looking at now is for 80 acres with a 1bd 1bath nice house and a very large double deck plus room for 2 more bedrooms upstairs. It is 60% wooded with a stream that runs thru the backside of the property and a bridge over it along with trails throughtout the woods and ground and raised blinds. Plus the 2 bedrooms and area for a bathroom in the one outbuilding plus the other out buildings....and is still only $139,000 asking price which is to high for what it is.

I could get a loan thru them but i checked thru the pre-approval thing and it says interest rates up to 36% interest. Admittedly 36% i like to this is for bad credit but even at say 10% on 45k that isnt really a realistic loan option because the plan was to buy the place and then 1 year later go get a tractor, trailer and truck financed.



Bruce said:


> The problem is that they don't own the land and given how whacky the current owners seem to be, even if they agreed to let @misfitmorgan put a new manufactured home on it (talk about a huge financial risk), they might change their minds on the property or the selling price.
> 
> Seems to me all this is just a sign that the property is NOT what they should be buying. "Their" property is somewhere else.



We still love the barn lol. I think babs ment if we did the new construction loan.

I agree i am feeling less and less like this is where we are ment to be. We have tried everything short of putting ourselves so deep in depth we won't claw our way out for the next 20years which we don't want.


----------



## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Yeah, @Bruce , I tend to agree that their property is somewhere else.  Too much aggravation, too much work, too much mess, too much fixing up to do, too much BS with the current owners.  But I well understand that you see something, think it will be a good deal, start doing stuff, see the potential, and put alot of yourself into it.....but, believe me, life is too short to continue to beat your head against the wall ;  OR to saddle yourself with something that will be an even bigger millstone around your neck, down the road.
> Misfit...I think you have better things coming, just let it happen.  When it does you will say,   whew, so glad we didn't get stuck with that other place.



I know, we have been fighting an uphill battle to get this place and make things work on it since before we even moved in and i am tired of it. The owners are not willing to work with us anymore. They will not move anymore of their stuff off or clean up any of their junk or give us a land contract so we are done with them and will rent until we find a place.



babsbag said:


> Buy the land with a construction loan. It would lock the current owners into a contract that they can't back out of. As part of the construction loan the house gets placed on the land and then it is converted to a conventional loan when the house is done. It would be the same as buying vacant land and putting a home on it.  USDA does not require a down payment either.
> 
> As far as this not being "their" spot, that may be the case. Years and years ago I "laid down the fleece" on a house...if the financing went through we would buy it; if not, I would not pursue other options and we would walk away. DH was newly self employed so we had no verifiable income and they wouldn't give us the loan. I regretted that decision on my part for the next 15 years.
> 
> There may very well be a better home but I know they like this one so just laying out some options that maybe (doubtful...I'm sure she has covered all her bases) she didn't think of.



That's what i kept telling myself Babs thats why i did check every possible solution but honestly im sick of fighting to try to stay on that property. We love the location, we love the barn....thats it. The other place i keep talking about is literally 4 houses away from this place...same location....similar barn...4 times the acerage and a nice house lol.

I think DH can get a FHA loan on this other place by himself but i dunno what the requirements are for FHA if they would do 80 acres, etc. I know they are really strict on everything having to be just so. We have enough down payment to do a regular loan with 10% down atm but that puts us into PMI which we dont really want. If i pay off the car it will take us a couple months to save up the extra to make 15% down payment which still puts us in PMI but only for 2.5 years.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Really they need to come down about 40k before it would be reasonable.


Offer them $50K less, mention all the structural issues with the barns and storage buildings, and see what happens. Same question as before, how long has it been on the market?



misfitmorgan said:


> I could get a loan thru them but i checked thru the pre-approval thing and it says interest rates up to 36% interest.


Usury rates! The unreasonable credit card rates are less. Even with so-so credit the rate on a 30 year, 20% down, no points should be less than 5%.


----------



## babsbag

The only problem I had with FHA was that they didn't want to finance income producing property and since I file a schedule F they were hesitant. Every underwriter is different, even for the same loan, and we finally found one that realized that the "farm" is not our income and they were ok with it. I seem to recall that there was some limit on the amount of land we could buy, but maybe not.  I do pay PMI, oh well, it is what it is.  The only thing the inspector looked at closely was the roof, the height of the deck (I have no deck railing), the wood stove installation, and making sure we had permits on the out buildings.  It was not the inspection from hell that I had always heard about.

I would check for a USDA home loan, I have heard good things about them but we never qualified because it is based on income for the area. I live in a super depressed area income wise but my DH works 2.5 hours away and makes way more than the median income for the area we live in.

Sounds like it is time for a move.

ETA: you could try the FSA loan again and ask about the Beginner's Ranchers and Farmers, but plan on a LONG escrow. It took us almost 180 days just to buy a piece of land. But they do let you know withing 60 days if you qualify or not. With FSA the earlier in the fiscal year you apply the more likely you are to get funded. They frequently run out of money. They also have a down payment assistance program.


----------



## Gorman Farm

We bought our little farm USDA, my other half worked over an hour away from here and made more I am sure than the median income here. It was a pretty simple process, they are a little less conservative on credit scores, and they don't mind if you are going to earn income from the property. You do have agree to make it your main residence for at least 5 years I think it was. They do their own inspection of property and do require certain safety issues to be addressed before processing the loan. We had to come to the property and reset some deck stairs that were not to code, get rid of a yellow jackets nest, and replace an outer door to the home that wasn't sealed right. After that was done it was like 2 weeks and the loan went right through we were in the home 30 days later.


----------



## Latestarter

I checked in to USDA when I was coming down here to TX... With the USDA you have income restrictions and the property has to have like 80% of the purchase value in the house, NOT the land, and even though it's from USDA, it is not an ag loan... go figure. It's actually to try and get people to re-inhabit depressed areas to boost local economies through property tax income. With FHA, they will not finance land. They strictly finance homes. I believe their upper limit is like 15-20 acres and may be less depending on location. VA has no acreage restrictions, however, they will not finance a "farm" that is "for profit". That was the nightmare situation I had to deal with as the purchase offer was written up on a farm and ranch purchase offer vice a standard residential purchase offer.

I hope whatever you decide to do it works out for you and soon... Planting time is coming up fast and it would suck to lose another year.  I'd put a realistic value purchase offer on the 80 acre property and see if they'll offer owner financing at say 6-7%. Savings accounts are paying <1% interest. I'd say that would be a good investment since they aren't local anyway.


----------



## farmerjan

One thing I would be careful of.  Here in Va, if you do any kind of improvements and they are "attached" you cannot legally take them.  We have gates "TIED" up on several farms because to "hang them" on hinges or the hinge pins, would constitute being attached.  Really...so I cuss and drag gates open and shut on a couple of places since we can't see putting a $100  gate here and there....and then losing the rent.  So make sure that you will not run into problems taking the stalls and all out of where you are now.

We just found out friday we are losing a place we have had rented for years.  They have had it for sale, taken it off the market, decided to sell a piece, changed their mind....over and over.  We offered to buy it all;  put a 20% down payment, with them holding the mortgage; to save them cap gains and give them a very comfortable yearly income. Now, this is 100 acres of very worn out land, because they never put fertilizer or anything on it, "wish" fences on 90% of it ( fences that are wished up  ha ha),  but it lays nice and is close to where we have other pasture.  Has a nice old restored house that needs a little work, and a big old log barn that needs alot of work before it starts to really fall apart.
  They had listed it for 1.2 mil, then came down to $850,000.  We finally came to an agreement...and they were going to have rights to stay in the house, for I think 10 years, for $550,000.  They would be getting a monthly check, not have to pay taxes, or do maintainance, really get paid to live there with a chunk of money down....and it was for 25 years I think.  Anyway, we were at the paperwork stage and her daughter said that it was a bad deal, that it wasn't fair that they would not be getting a chunk of money but payments along....In other words, the kids wouldn't have a "big inheritance" to look forward to, because the parents would be having the the future inheritance to live on.  I mean, they would be getting 100,000+ chunk to start with....so they backed out.
So now, they are selling 60 acres of it, and don't want to fence off the part they are keeping with the house separate, so will be letting the buyer of the 60 acres "rent" the other 30 or so acres.  They need to do work on the house they said, to be able to sell it in the next year  or 2.  I will bet that they will not be getting 250,000 for the 60 acres and with the markets the way they are, they will not get  350,00 for the house and the remaining 30 acres.  Plus will be putting money into the house to get it fixed up to sell....have to pay cap gains on the land sale,  and in the end will come out with less than what they would have gotten from us with no costs to live there for 10 years except their normal electric, propane, whatever all else daily bills. 

So we just said fine, we are done, back when they changed their mind;  and my son bought 75 acres for 3,000 an acre, and a year later bought the house on 2 acres that went with the 75 acres, when the guy couldn't make the payments because he wouldn't work.  Now we are trying to buy the 30 acres that was split off a couple of years earlier, to put the farm back together to better utilize the barns that were surveyed off in a screwed up mess.  Land here is in the 5-10,000 per acre range.  
We have a friend whose wife passed away last year that has a REAL NICE totally restored older house on 25 acres that can't get it sold for 400,000 and it is all fenced with a huge, completely restored, fixed up bank barn. I'm talking a showplace. If we hadn't gone and bought that 75 acres, then the house piece to put it back together , we would have bought this other place in a heartbeat.  But, it wasn't for sale then, and no thoughts that it would be until she got sick and died of cancer.  Can't possibly buy it now....

But what I got sidetracked was that the place we are losing, we have 5 or 6 gates that I can think of, and they are NOT on the hinges, so we are going to take everything that is ours, with us.  Have to get everything out by the 20th of april I think....barely a months notice.  And we are calving cows there now, so I pray they are all done calving in the next 3 weeks.
We rebuilt the catch pen a couple of years ago, not all new, but some new posts and boards where it was falling apart because we needed a place to be able to work the cows in.  That will have to stay, and it isn't alot of money but a fair amount of time and sweat in it. We have benefitted from it, but still....
Thank goodness we hadn't walked all the fences and done any work on them for this year.  We try to go around all pasture fences in the early spring before the leaves come out so that we can do any repair/rebuilding that needs to be done.
So believe me, there are other options, and sometimes you do miss out on some things....but you take what you can and go from there.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Offer them $50K less, mention all the structural issues with the barns and storage buildings, and see what happens. Same question as before, how long has it been on the market?
> 
> 
> Usury rates! The unreasonable credit card rates are less. Even with so-so credit the rate on a 30 year, 20% down, no points should be less than 5%.



The place has been for sale for 7 months but they just re-listed with a different company and in doing so dropped the price by 50k so i dont think they would take 50k less then the new price atm lol. It has only been the new price for like 3 weeks.

Usary laws dont cover those kinds of places because the loans are not marketed as mortgages or home loans, they are just personal loans pretty much.



babsbag said:


> The only problem I had with FHA was that they didn't want to finance income producing property and since I file a schedule F they were hesitant. Every underwriter is different, even for the same loan, and we finally found one that realized that the "farm" is not our income and they were ok with it. I seem to recall that there was some limit on the amount of land we could buy, but maybe not.  I do pay PMI, oh well, it is what it is.  The only thing the inspector looked at closely was the roof, the height of the deck (I have no deck railing), the wood stove installation, and making sure we had permits on the out buildings.  It was not the inspection from hell that I had always heard about.
> 
> I would check for a USDA home loan, I have heard good things about them but we never qualified because it is based on income for the area. I live in a super depressed area income wise but my DH works 2.5 hours away and makes way more than the median income for the area we live in.
> 
> Sounds like it is time for a move.
> 
> ETA: you could try the FSA loan again and ask about the Beginner's Ranchers and Farmers, but plan on a LONG escrow. It took us almost 180 days just to buy a piece of land. But they do let you know withing 60 days if you qualify or not. With FSA the earlier in the fiscal year you apply the more likely you are to get funded. They frequently run out of money. They also have a down payment assistance program.



We both work full time so hopefully the farm income wouldnt be an issue. I am worried on the limit to land for FHA, i can't find where it states what the limit is. The roof likes like a newer roof like it was done within the past 10yrs, it may have been done when the house was sold 12yrs ago or shortly after. Basically it looks a litle weathered but the shingles are not coming apart, there are no low spots etc that we could see. Both decks have railings all the way around so no issue there and the lower deck has newer decking on it. The wood stove appears to be a boiler no direct piping and i am still not sure if it heats the house and the bunk/guest/storage building or just the house or just the bunk, etc. The permits might be a problem, as i mentioned i suspected the buildings were put up in the 30-40s or prior to that and i was correct. Turns out that our farming buddy's Aunt and Uncle used to own that very farm so he gave us some info on it and who they were. I dunno what the inspection guidelines are but i do know my friend got her FHA loan 4yrs ago and they were ridiculous even to the point that she had to install a new shower in the basement because the one that was in there had a crack in it...this was a second bathroom she didnt even plan on using lol.

We would qualify for the Section 502 Guaranteed Rural Housing Loan Program but we were told that Loan and a FSA loan are the same thing thru the same office and same branch. We originally went in looking for a USDA Direct Loan(before DH got his raise) and we were told FSA was the USDA home loan and that was the process we had to go thru. NOOOOO!
I also asked about the beginners farmers and ranchers program  and was told it has the exact same requirements with the wording on the "experience" slightly different.
Normal ranch/farm loan -must have min 3yrs experience within the past 10yrs
Beginner's ranch/farm - must have min 3yrs experience but not more then 10yrs.
So she told us we still dont qualify. I did read thru the requirements in detail and the down payment program has the same requirements and i can't even do female farmer stuff because she says you have to prove you are a farmer still with the same requirements.
I do find it odd because when i was reading the beginning farmer requirements I read where it says you must have managerial duties for 1 full production cycle.....thats it. I can't even go argue with her either because she is the same person who determines if we get the loan or not.

USDA is Rural development and definately not the FSA. THe women who handles the loan stuff for FSA has only been there for a year and knows NOTHING about farming...i seriously am not sure how she got the job, i mean she is nice and all but no clue on how farming works i mean she didnt even know you could milk goats or that adult human drank goats milk.

Anywho i am looking into the USDA Rural development loans atm. 




Gorman Farm said:


> We bought our little farm USDA, my other half worked over an hour away from here and made more I am sure than the median income here. It was a pretty simple process, they are a little less conservative on credit scores, and they don't mind if you are going to earn income from the property. You do have agree to make it your main residence for at least 5 years I think it was. They do their own inspection of property and do require certain safety issues to be addressed before processing the loan. We had to come to the property and reset some deck stairs that were not to code, get rid of a yellow jackets nest, and replace an outer door to the home that wasn't sealed right. After that was done it was like 2 weeks and the loan went right through we were in the home 30 days later.



We would LOVE that to happen....my concern is the other buildings that are not the house and the fact it is 80 acres, i'm not sure it would qualify for rural development.



Latestarter said:


> I checked in to USDA when I was coming down here to TX... With the USDA you have income restrictions and the property has to have like 80% of the purchase value in the house, NOT the land, and even though it's from USDA, it is not an ag loan... go figure. It's actually to try and get people to re-inhabit depressed areas to boost local economies through property tax income. With FHA, they will not finance land. They strictly finance homes. I believe their upper limit is like 15-20 acres and may be less depending on location. VA has no acreage restrictions, however, they will not finance a "farm" that is "for profit". That was the nightmare situation I had to deal with as the purchase offer was written up on a farm and ranch purchase offer vice a standard residential purchase offer.
> 
> I hope whatever you decide to do it works out for you and soon... Planting time is coming up fast and it would suck to lose another year.  I'd put a realistic value purchase offer on the 80 acre property and see if they'll offer owner financing at say 6-7%. Savings accounts are paying <1% interest. I'd say that would be a good investment since they aren't local anyway.



We meet the restrictions for the USDA Rural Development "Guarantee" but not direct, we make to much for direct it says. I wonder if the gurantee is the same rules since it runs thru a normal bank/CU. I dont think the house would be worth 80% of the asking price that's 111k and i have no idea how to value a house, the entire property is tax assessed at $148,400 but taxed at $89,938 as agriculture residential...which is odd because near as i can tell they used that for a hunting camp and no one lived there for many years or took hay or anything from it. We cant do VA neither of us were military. 

Boy i am long winded arnt i lol.


----------



## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> One thing I would be careful of.  Here in Va, if you do any kind of improvements and they are "attached" you cannot legally take them.  We have gates "TIED" up on several farms because to "hang them" on hinges or the hinge pins, would constitute being attached.  Really...so I cuss and drag gates open and shut on a couple of places since we can't see putting a $100  gate here and there....and then losing the rent.  So make sure that you will not run into problems taking the stalls and all out of where you are now.
> 
> We just found out friday we are losing a place we have had rented for years.  They have had it for sale, taken it off the market, decided to sell a piece, changed their mind....over and over.  We offered to buy it all;  put a 20% down payment, with them holding the mortgage; to save them cap gains and give them a very comfortable yearly income. Now, this is 100 acres of very worn out land, because they never put fertilizer or anything on it, "wish" fences on 90% of it ( fences that are wished up  ha ha),  but it lays nice and is close to where we have other pasture.  Has a nice old restored house that needs a little work, and a big old log barn that needs alot of work before it starts to really fall apart.
> They had listed it for 1.2 mil, then came down to $850,000.  We finally came to an agreement...and they were going to have rights to stay in the house, for I think 10 years, for $550,000.  They would be getting a monthly check, not have to pay taxes, or do maintainance, really get paid to live there with a chunk of money down....and it was for 25 years I think.  Anyway, we were at the paperwork stage and her daughter said that it was a bad deal, that it wasn't fair that they would not be getting a chunk of money but payments along....In other words, the kids wouldn't have a "big inheritance" to look forward to, because the parents would be having the the future inheritance to live on.  I mean, they would be getting 100,000+ chunk to start with....so they backed out.
> So now, they are selling 60 acres of it, and don't want to fence off the part they are keeping with the house separate, so will be letting the buyer of the 60 acres "rent" the other 30 or so acres.  They need to do work on the house they said, to be able to sell it in the next year  or 2.  I will bet that they will not be getting 250,000 for the 60 acres and with the markets the way they are, they will not get  350,00 for the house and the remaining 30 acres.  Plus will be putting money into the house to get it fixed up to sell....have to pay cap gains on the land sale,  and in the end will come out with less than what they would have gotten from us with no costs to live there for 10 years except their normal electric, propane, whatever all else daily bills.
> 
> So we just said fine, we are done, back when they changed their mind;  and my son bought 75 acres for 3,000 an acre, and a year later bought the house on 2 acres that went with the 75 acres, when the guy couldn't make the payments because he wouldn't work.  Now we are trying to buy the 30 acres that was split off a couple of years earlier, to put the farm back together to better utilize the barns that were surveyed off in a screwed up mess.  Land here is in the 5-10,000 per acre range.
> We have a friend whose wife passed away last year that has a REAL NICE totally restored older house on 25 acres that can't get it sold for 400,000 and it is all fenced with a huge, completely restored, fixed up bank barn. I'm talking a showplace. If we hadn't gone and bought that 75 acres, then the house piece to put it back together , we would have bought this other place in a heartbeat.  But, it wasn't for sale then, and no thoughts that it would be until she got sick and died of cancer.  Can't possibly buy it now....
> 
> But what I got sidetracked was that the place we are losing, we have 5 or 6 gates that I can think of, and they are NOT on the hinges, so we are going to take everything that is ours, with us.  Have to get everything out by the 20th of april I think....barely a months notice.  And we are calving cows there now, so I pray they are all done calving in the next 3 weeks.
> We rebuilt the catch pen a couple of years ago, not all new, but some new posts and boards where it was falling apart because we needed a place to be able to work the cows in.  That will have to stay, and it isn't alot of money but a fair amount of time and sweat in it. We have benefitted from it, but still....
> Thank goodness we hadn't walked all the fences and done any work on them for this year.  We try to go around all pasture fences in the early spring before the leaves come out so that we can do any repair/rebuilding that needs to be done.
> So believe me, there are other options, and sometimes you do miss out on some things....but you take what you can and go from there.



Luckily here any improvements we make to the property whether rented or leased with-in reason can be taken with you. So stalls we put up we can take, gates and pasture, fence posts we can take all of that legally. You can not however put in a well or fertilize and try to take it back lol. You also are not allowed to put in new windows, doors, drywall, etc and then take it back unless you replace it with something else that is equal to or better then the original thing that was there because that would be causing the owner an unfair burden of money loss. If you have anything in writing that says you are allowed to improve the property and they terminate the lease thru no fault of your own you can take them to court the judge will award you up to 70% of the cost of any improvements...so there is that.

I'm sorry your losing your rented pasture, that always sucks we lost a few of our hay fields and that is a pain in itself.

Price per acreage here for bare land is between $400-1,500/acre depending on where it is/near. You can easily go out and buy a vacant area of say 3-4 acres for $3,500

This place sold not to long ago for $160,550
105 acres, house, barns, already fenced etc.
Original asking price - $178,900
Lowered asking price - $169,000
https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sa....246155,44.394296,-83.704148_rect/10_zm/1_rs/


----------



## Gorman Farm

misfitmorgan said:


> We meet the restrictions for the USDA Rural Development "Guarantee" but not direct, we make to much for direct it says. I wonder if the gurantee is the same rules since it runs thru a normal bank/CU. I dont think the house would be worth 80% of the asking price that's 111k and i have no idea how to value a house, the entire property is tax assessed at $148,400 but taxed at $89,938 as agriculture residential...which is odd because near as i can tell they used that for a hunting camp and no one lived there for many years or took hay or anything from it. We cant do VA neither of us were military.
> 
> Boy i am long winded arnt i lol.



Ours is a guarantee loan, You do have to pay a small annual fee for that, they roll it into the loan, but you also have the option of zero down payment with it.


----------



## babsbag

I seem to recall that the FHA limit wasn't on the amount of land as it was on the value...the house has to be worth a certain % of the total deal, I guess that is the same with the USDA loan.

Have you tried some of the Ag credit banks?


----------



## Baymule

Call and talk to these, it can't hurt to try.

http://agamerica.net

https://www.lendingtree.com/

http://www.agstar.com/loans/Pages/ag-farm-loans.aspx

https://www.agrilender.com


----------



## Bruce

Can't get a loan to become a farmer because you don't have 3 years of experience in farming because you can't get a loan to become a farmer. 

Kind of similar here with the sales tax exemption on farming equipment. How are you supposed to create the income to show that you are farming if you don't have the equipment to do it? And once you do have it so you CAN prove you are making money at farming, well you don't need the tax exemption since you already bought the stuff and paid sales tax on it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Gorman Farm said:


> Ours is a guarantee loan, You do have to pay a small annual fee for that, they roll it into the loan, but you also have the option of zero down payment with it.



How many acres was your farm and how long ago was that if you dont mind me asking?

I saw something when i was trying o find USDA info that said no acreage....i assume they mean no vacant land or land without a house for your personal primary residence?



babsbag said:


> I seem to recall that the FHA limit wasn't on the amount of land as it was on the value...the house has to be worth a certain % of the total deal, I guess that is the same with the USDA loan.
> 
> Have you tried some of the Ag credit banks?



I think FHA has a cap on how much you can get per the area, house, and debt to income ratio up to 41% vs 36% for others. The problem i have is i dont know how to figure out the worth of the land exactly. Tillable is worth one amount, wooded is another, river front is another, etc....i also have no idea how to figure out the value of a house itself with the land. My assumption would be the house and the land the buildings are on would be used for the "house" but i'm not sure. We really need an underwriter or loan person on this forum to ask all this stuff too lol. The second bank we tried was a local bank that works with Greenstone but that was for the place we are on now and that was a no because of the trailer.



Baymule said:


> Call and talk to these, it can't hurt to try.
> 
> http://agamerica.net
> 
> https://www.lendingtree.com/
> 
> http://www.agstar.com/loans/Pages/ag-farm-loans.aspx
> 
> https://www.agrilender.com



I did try talking to lending tree and they just beat me around the bush trying to get me to give them my social so they could run my credit which i refused. I have not talked to or heard of those others. Thanks you!!



Bruce said:


> Can't get a loan to become a farmer because you don't have 3 years of experience in farming because you can't get a loan to become a farmer.
> 
> Kind of similar here with the sales tax exemption on farming equipment. How are you supposed to create the income to show that you are farming if you don't have the equipment to do it? And once you do have it so you CAN prove you are making money at farming, well you don't need the tax exemption since you already bought the stuff and paid sales tax on it.



Exactly!!


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## Bruce

@Latestarter was, in a past life, a mortgage loan officer. There may have been changes since then but I bet he can answer a lot of your questions about the things that haven't changed and the fact that he recently moved from CO to TX so he's recently analyzed a lot of the current options.


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## Latestarter

FHA will back loans for rural property, but there is a limit to the amount of acreage that can be included when determining the value for loan purposes. FHA will only back the value of the first 10 acres of the property, and those first 10 acres must include the home.

https://www.farmloans.com/farm-loans/michigan-farm-loans/

https://www.farmcreditnetwork.com/about/locations

http://agamerica.net/

https://riverbankfinance.com/mortgage-programs/michigan-farm-loans.html

http://www.greenstonefcs.com/Pages/default.aspx

That about does it for me... Hope one of these is a possibility.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you everyone for your help but i think we have decided to wait a couple months and if that place is still up for sale awesome, if not we will find another. We keep trying to push ourselves into things before we are ready and as a result really make things harder on ourselves. So we will stay at the current place and pay their stupid $600/month rent and save our money, pay off a bit of my credit card debt not that i have much really and pay DHs revolving credit line which only has like $400 owed on it. The car payments will be done in 9 months so we are just going to double the payment plus a tad so it is paid off in 4 months. Over that 4 months we should also be able to save approx $10,000 with piglets money, my vacation pay, and our salaries of course. I'm hoping to sell some more hay too but we shall see.


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## misfitmorgan

This is the place we were looking at....and dreaming about lol.
https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sa...9,-83.387518,44.545539,-83.416143_rect/14_zm/

On a side note....or rather a main note 

We sold both adult ram mutts, the 4 month old mutt lamb we had, and suffolk lamb, and all 3 goat kids in about a week and a half...so that was great.

The two adult rams went to be studs for a smallish herd. The little mutant lamb has a ewe friend they bought and is going to be the pets of an older lady and her sister. The suffolk lamb is going to be the sire for a nice size mixed sheep herd tat they are trying to get some size on...nice young couple starting out. All 3 now whethered boys are going to be brush hogs on a golf course downstate, they will be let out in the daytime to the "native" areas of the course to trim things down and fertilize.


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## Latestarter

I know that's 80 acres, but $173/square foot? That's pretty high! SO maybe this early fall you can offer them 150K and they'll be more ready to deal. I mean that would be tripling their investment in 10 years... Not too shabby considering the economy over the past 10 years!


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> I know that's 80 acres, but $173/square foot? That's pretty high! SO maybe this early fall you can offer them 150K and they'll be more ready to deal. I mean that would be tripling their investment in 10 years... Not too shabby considering the economy over the past 10 years!



Haha no, sorry. That was the original listing price $189,000 it has since dropped to $139,000 so it is $127/sqft and that doesnt count the upstairs of the house because it isnt finished. That is pretty cheap actually, anything with a lot of acreage has the sqft price high because of the land value. We are hoping to get the place for $120,000 or less but we will see when the time comes if it does. 

I am aiming to be ready in 4-5 months but DH isnt so sure of my saving plan lol. He has a history of giving money to his ex's for "savings" and they really just spent it all. So everytime i say hey if you give me X amount a month i can put it in the savings he somehow feels like i am going to rob him or something so digs his heels in. I told him the alternative is he can pay more bills and i will put the money from check in the savings 

I did also talk to the realtor about the listing yes they bought the place for 50k but since they bought it. They re-did the entire inside of the house with new drywall, remodeled the kitchen, put in new flooring on the entire first floor, put new interior doors thru the whole place, new light fixtures,  added the bead board and the fancy trims, they also put new decking on the first floor deck, put in the two bedrooms and have everything for the bathroom out there and that all comes with the house. They also have about half the stuff needed to do the bathroom in the house which comes with the house and they also put in all the 4 wheeler trails, the bridge, and blinds for hunting. So they have put a fair amount of money into the place. 
The appliances also come with the place which i kind of laughed about since it looks like the newest one is the washer lol. We would definately be swapping that dryer out for our dryer since it is newer and would be buying a new dishwasher and swapping that electric stove for our gas one. Probly put our fridge and the electric stove out in the  guest house building so we can use it for canning and prep for garden and butcher stuff......i am getting ahead of my self though


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## Mike CHS

It sounds like they did what we did to our house.  Completely gutted it to the studs and then rebuilt.  We put close to 75 thousand into our place getting it done and we did most of it ourselves except the new drywall on the ceilings.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya may be "Day Dreaming" a bit, but it sure is good to hear that coming from ya...about the Future....instead of another problem with the "Idiots" making your Happiness so difficult. Even from down here, I could see the smile on your face just thinking about what "Might or Could" be.....


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> It sounds like they did what we did to our house.  Completely gutted it to the studs and then rebuilt.  We put close to 75 thousand into our place getting it done and we did most of it ourselves except the new drywall on the ceilings.



If they had put some money into maintaining the out buildings this place would have been worth 200k easily but they only focused on the house and the guestrooms in the one building. They didnt live there and only used the one building so they let the other ones just sit there. That aside i'm not sure how much they put into the house but it was probly a far cry from 75k as everything is low grade and it is a small house. 
They also say the kitchen is "updated" aside from adding a pantry i dont see what they updated? It has the old 60-70s back splash and the counter top is not new because i can see wear marks in the pics. So just doing a small "update" on the kitchen for a couple $100 would be much cheaper then a full remodel of the kitchen to modern stuff and they also didn't remodel the bathroom just put down new rolled vinyl flooring and a new toilet. Kitchen and bathroom are two of the most expensive rooms to remodel from what ive seen. As i mentioned before they do have the stuff for a bathroom remodel but it is again lower grade stuff.

Don't think i dont like the house or anything or dont like what they did because i do i'm just saying i don't think thye put a whole ton of money into the remodel like you would for say....your own house you live in all the time.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Ya may be "Day Dreaming" a bit, but it sure is good to hear that coming from ya...about the Future....instead of another problem with the "Idiots" making your Happiness so difficult. Even from down here, I could see the smile on your face just thinking about what "Might or Could" be.....



Thank you, it does make me feel happier and way less stressed.


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## Baymule

Land around here is so high that the place you are dreaming about sounds like a dream!


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## Latestarter

Truly! 139K for 80 acres (with a home... AND out buildings!)... wish I coulda found that around these parts!


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## Mike CHS

Taxes seem to be a major factor.  Even in Tennessee they are fairly high around the metro areas but Ag zones are still pretty low.


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## Bruce

Why does the Zillow listing not reflect the new price? That's pretty weird. Trulia also still has it at $189K

Interesting that Zillow's "tax history" shows it declining in value and worth $74.5K last year

Realtor does show $139K. They have it at 25 days on the market so the price drop must have been at the beginning of March.

Even so, they didn't put anywhere near $90K into it, probably still too high. Especially since you NEVER get as much out as you put in. They started out money grubbing high, now just greedy high


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Land around here is so high that the place you are dreaming about sounds like a dream!



You can find cheap land here it just depends what you want on it or dont want on it lol.



Latestarter said:


> Truly! 139K for 80 acres (with a home... AND out buildings!)... wish I coulda found that around these parts!



We are aiming to get it for less but it would be nice if other areas had cheap land too.



Mike CHS said:


> Taxes seem to be a major factor.  Even in Tennessee they are fairly high around the metro areas but Ag zones are still pretty low.



Taxes on that place at approx $900/year



Bruce said:


> Why does the Zillow listing not reflect the new price? That's pretty weird. Trulia also still has it at $189K
> 
> Interesting that Zillow's "tax history" shows it declining in value and worth $74.5K last year
> 
> Realtor does show $139K. They have it at 25 days on the market so the price drop must have been at the beginning of March.
> 
> Even so, they didn't put anywhere near $90K into it, probably still too high. Especially since you NEVER get as much out as you put in. They started out money grubbing high, now just greedy high



I noticed the same thing. I have been watching this place since december out of curiosity. It was originally listed at $189,000 thru a real estate company down state about 5hrs from here. Then it was listed thru real estate one but a different office about 2hrs away and had a price drop to $149,000 for 3 months, then it listed with real estate one here locally about 15 minutes away and dropped again to $139,000. The orginal contract was 3 months 189k, then 3 months 149k and i assume that makes the new one 3 months and 139k. So if the pattern follows in another 2 months they should drop the price again.

I think realtor just didnt update the prices on trulia and zillow, they are updated on their own website as well as another one they are listed on for "waterfront" places.

Price drop was at the beginning of March yes.

Declining in value is pretty typical for our area, nothing goes up unless you pull a permit and even then the new value slowly drops thru the years. I assume the value went up when they put in the new well and got permits for whatever else. I did notice the taxable value is going up while the equalized/assessed value is going down, not sure why that is. I think the assessed value is going down due to them not maintaining the outbuildings.

DH and I pretty much agreed already that we wouldn't pay over 100k for the place as it sits....but i'm pretty sure if it came down to getting it or not for another 5k i would take it lol. We also agreed if they agreed to clean out the buildings and we got the tractor that is sitting there, we would go up to 115k. We are not there yet though lol.

The other side of the coin is if they drop the price enough other people will be interested so it is a fine line between price we like and price everyone else likes.

Yesterday my mom came down cause she wanted me to go someplace with her and i asked if she wanted to go look at that place...there was someone parked in the driveway and some cleaning supplies on the porch so i'm wondering if they are going to do an open house.


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## NH homesteader

I can't believe the prices there. I never realized how expensive it is to live in the northeast until I started talking to people in different parts of the country.

I pay $3,000/year for a mobile home and 5 acres, most of which is swampy or woods. My MIL has an old farmhouse, barn, and an outbuilding on 5-6 acres of field and pays nearly $10,000!

Depressing!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I would put in the offer before the price drop, personally. It gives you the leg-up and places ya in a bargaining position. Since there have been previous drops, the seller could feel dejected about it and if ya have a reason to sell, then the old saying gets some play....a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush....I did that many yrs ago on 30acres. The lady was asking close to $1000/acre, I offered $500/acre...she laughed at the offer, and I told her that prime tillable farm land was going for $600-650/acre and hers was all hills and woods. It was about a yr later that they came back to me and asked if I was still interested....I was, but life had placed me going a different direction. So, ya never know...it could be best to beat the rush and give them "Food for Thought". Ya never know the reason for trying to sell and if they need the $$ ya could be in a really good position.


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> I can't believe the prices there. I never realized how expensive it is to live in the northeast until I started talking to people in different parts of the country.
> 
> I pay $3,000/year for a mobile home and 5 acres, most of which is swampy or woods. My MIL has an old farmhouse, barn, and an outbuilding on 5-6 acres of field and pays nearly $10,000!
> 
> Depressing!



I know i was shocked when i found out how expensive other places are to live lol. The farm would have the ag exemption which is better then the homestead exemption so we get a break on that. Homestead exemption would be approx $1,800/year but even that compared to other places is very cheap. Part of it is the county we are in, we are considered a poor county...even though the next county over(which I work in) which we are only 7 minutes from is considered a fairly well off county. 



CntryBoy777 said:


> I would put in the offer before the price drop, personally. It gives you the leg-up and places ya in a bargaining position. Since there have been previous drops, the seller could feel dejected about it and if ya have a reason to sell, then the old saying gets some play....a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush....I did that many yrs ago on 30acres. The lady was asking close to $1000/acre, I offered $500/acre...she laughed at the offer, and I told her that prime tillable farm land was going for $600-650/acre and hers was all hills and woods. It was about a yr later that they came back to me and asked if I was still interested....I was, but life had placed me going a different direction. So, ya never know...it could be best to beat the rush and give them "Food for Thought". Ya never know the reason for trying to sell and if they need the $$ ya could be in a really good position.



It is quite possible but we wont be ready in 2 months based on the schedule I have made, we need at least 4 months. Then we can go into a new property debt free, which gives us a better debt to income ratio and allows us liquid assets to purchase needed fence, equipment, trailers, etc. I am also kind of secretly hoping my raise will be thru by then. 
Atm we are spending 59% of our income a month on bills, car payment, rent, gas......not including food. If we went right into the loan on this property we want our payment would be close to the same as our rent payments so we would be stuck in the same boat except instead of it taking a year to get better it would be more like 5 years. So i've figured out how to accelerate a few payments meaning that in 4 months our debt will be approximately 16% of our income not including food costs. Or 30% including the estimated mortgage payment on that place if we paid 125k. 
I'm willing to have things super tight for 4 months instead of a few years and possibly loose that place. After all that gives us 20% of our income to go towards DTI ratio for the bank so we could possibly get an even better(for us) deal/place without living like we are dirt poor or take out a bit extra to be able to put up fencing or get a tractor if we need too.


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## Bruce

What happens if you offer $120K instead of $125K and they take it? Or offer $115K and settle on $120K? Would that take care of the "extra" 4 months from a financial perspective? 

As @CntryBoy777 said, you never know their motivations. Maybe the current owners inherited it and are hoping for a windfall, reality might strike and deflate that balloon. Heck, worth a try, the house next to my prior house sold twice to people with more money and desire than thoughtful consideration of actual value. 13 years ago to a doctor and lawyer who wanted a "move in" house. They paid probably 50% more (the same day the "for sale by owner" sign went up) than it would have gone for through a realtor. Houses in that neighborhood are 99% sold by owner, location, location. They sold just over a year ago to the people who had been renting it (for $2,500/month!) for the prior 18 months. They paid at least $100K over what it is worth, gutted it, ripped the second floor off and built something that would look in place on a beach in Miami, not in Vermont. They must have $750K in a house worth half that. The wife (a doctor) must have inherited some money or something. The husband is a school counselor and isn't even listed on the deed. 

Anyway, if they were cleaning up for an open house but get no interest or at least no offers and no one is coming forward outside the open house they have to rethink their price. I know it just went down < a month ago but (IIRC) they don't live nearby and either have to pay someone to keep it in "showable condition" or come up and do it themselves. That adds up after a while and they have been "waiting" for their rich prince since last fall.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Depending on the differece between the amount offered and the amount of appraisal, you can always come out way ahead at closing. If ya want or need a cushion, then finance more than offering to cover closing costs and other incidentals.....fencing, furniture, etc. It would be unusual for the interest rate to be more on a mortgage than a personal loan, then ya can amortize the mortgage and pay it off as fast as you can. Usually, a 30yr loan can be paid off within 10yrs without it being too much of a burden....it gets more difficult as you get on the backside of it, because more out of each note goes towards the principle. If ya make the offer and they reject ya, ya haven't lost anything and if they come back in the future ya offer less. This will force their "Hand" as to sell or not, and make your position of negotiation much stronger. If ya had everything lined up and paperwork filed today, it wouldn't close til about 5-6mnths anyway. I've always got a check issued to me at closing, and had the closing costs covered with the proceeds of the loan, or had the seller paying them.


----------



## farmerjan

If you wait for the open house you might very well be behind the eight ball.  Make a low ball offer.  They can refuse, they can counter, they can accept.  It gives you an "in" and the real estate agent will be more inclined to come back to you as an interested party.  One thing you have going for you is the offer isn't contingent on you "selling your current home" as many offers are.
  Any real estate agent that takes a financial statement will see that you are bery close to being debt free;  ie. only a few more months to pay a car loan etc.  Are you pre-approved for a certain size loan?  That will get you in the game alot quicker here.  You also should be working with a real estate agent of your own.  If you were to buy a place listed by another agent, they will share the RE income.  But you will have the  safety of your agent looking out for yourself.  Safer when you get into contracts. 
Have you had a real estate agent looking for a place for you?  There might be something out there that isn't as "saleable" that an agent might know of that would be perfect for what you want.  Maybe needs some work but basically sound.  Older people looking to move, going into retirement, so many other things that they don't want to sell on their own and don't want to put alot into to get sold.  Something that may not be seen as a good selling point that would be ideal for you.
Get pre-approved for  mortgage, then you can move quickly if you find something without waiting to get an approval....And keep paying down the debt as fast as you can.  
You don't want to have alot of "cash" showing for improvements, as they will want a bigger downpayment.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> What happens if you offer $120K instead of $125K and they take it? Or offer $115K and settle on $120K? Would that take care of the "extra" 4 months from a financial perspective?
> 
> As @CntryBoy777 said, you never know their motivations. Maybe the current owners inherited it and are hoping for a windfall, reality might strike and deflate that balloon. Heck, worth a try, the house next to my prior house sold twice to people with more money and desire than thoughtful consideration of actual value. 13 years ago to a doctor and lawyer who wanted a "move in" house. They paid probably 50% more (the same day the "for sale by owner" sign went up) than it would have gone for through a realtor. Houses in that neighborhood are 99% sold by owner, location, location. They sold just over a year ago to the people who had been renting it (for $2,500/month!) for the prior 18 months. They paid at least $100K over what it is worth, gutted it, ripped the second floor off and built something that would look in place on a beach in Miami, not in Vermont. They must have $750K in a house worth half that. The wife (a doctor) must have inherited some money or something. The husband is a school counselor and isn't even listed on the deed.
> 
> Anyway, if they were cleaning up for an open house but get no interest or at least no offers and no one is coming forward outside the open house they have to rethink their price. I know it just went down < a month ago but (IIRC) they don't live nearby and either have to pay someone to keep it in "showable condition" or come up and do it themselves. That adds up after a while and they have been "waiting" for their rich prince since last fall.



If we could get it for 115k maybe, the other problem would be down payment. If we do it before 4 months we would not have the 20% down payment the bank will want. ATM we only have 10% IF we got it for 115k and would require the closing costs to be rolled into the loan which would make our payments more then we would like them to be. It makes more sense to wait even if we lose that place.

DH wants to go offer them 100k and see if they take it, they do require a pre-approval letter on all offers the real estate agent told me as well as earnest money. 

We do want the place pretty badly but don't want to jump in to quickly and lose it because of our hast. It would also be nice to get DHs credit up a bit first since he has a credit card his ex was suppose to have paid off and he just never checked...apparently it still isnt paid off and now he has 24 late payments on his credit.



CntryBoy777 said:


> Depending on the differece between the amount offered and the amount of appraisal, you can always come out way ahead at closing. If ya want or need a cushion, then finance more than offering to cover closing costs and other incidentals.....fencing, furniture, etc. It would be unusual for the interest rate to be more on a mortgage than a personal loan, then ya can amortize the mortgage and pay it off as fast as you can. Usually, a 30yr loan can be paid off within 10yrs without it being too much of a burden....it gets more difficult as you get on the backside of it, because more out of each note goes towards the principle. If ya make the offer and they reject ya, ya haven't lost anything and if they come back in the future ya offer less. This will force their "Hand" as to sell or not, and make your position of negotiation much stronger. If ya had everything lined up and paperwork filed today, it wouldn't close til about 5-6mnths anyway. I've always got a check issued to me at closing, and had the closing costs covered with the proceeds of the loan, or had the seller paying them.



I think it depends on who is doing the appraisal. Atm the assessed value is $74,200 so x2 is $148,400 so if they go by that i wouldn't come out any more ahead lol.  We could have the seller pay the closing costs if they would agree to it. Average closing time here is 30-60 days depending on what finance place your going thru. The second problem is i just got a loan not to long ago and i dont think the bank is gonna like that and i dont want another hard inquiry on my credit for no purpose.

Really i greatly appreciate all the help and ideas but for now atm it is not the right time for us to try to buy this place. If the place is still there in a few months it is ment to be ours perhaps...if not, we will find another option.


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## NH homesteader

Good luck! And remember there are always a million other people selling houses all the time. So if this place goes there's always another!


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## misfitmorgan

The goat kids left on Sunday at noon. The two moms were tight and hard only 7hrs later so i milked them and got approx a quart all together. Then yesterday i had to go someplace with my mom so they didnt get milked yesterday that i know of so i hope they are ok...i know the meat goat will be fine she generally dries herself off no problem but the dairy could be a problem.

Lamb leaves in May when he is 8 weeks old.

We pulled the boar off the gilts/sows, if we dont see them go back into heat in the next 20 days he is going home. If they got bred the approx delivery date should be July 7th-13th and we would be hoping for 40+ piglets. Then sows will be held over to be bred for late october for 4-h piglets.


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## Baymule

I had to go looking for it, but I found the post I was looking for! I had read a post on my favorite pig site about how to tell if a gilt or sow is pregnant, here it is!

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/2011/08/28/pregnancy-indicator/


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> It would also be nice to get DHs credit up a bit first since he has a credit card his ex was suppose to have paid off and he just never checked...apparently it still isn't paid off and now he has 24 late payments on his credit.



OUCH! That will screw your credit rating big time. Don't know if there is a way to take it off the report quickly even if it was paid in full today. I ASSUME they keep a "no payments for 2 years" on your report a LONG time. You would want to explain that to any REA you talk to. Oh, and if you are going to "engage" an agent, get a broker, they have to work for YOU, REAs work for the seller even if you engaged them. At least that is how I think it works.


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## Mike CHS

I have family that use to live in Brighton, Michigan on Brighton Lake.  They were paying over $10,000 a year in taxes but moved down to Florida when they retired.

Our taxes on a house in a subdivision in South Carolina was almost $3,000.  I like our $641 a year but that is going to go up a small amount since we had them do a new assessment this winter because we had made so many improvements.


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## NH homesteader

Today I got my letter in the mail saying oh hey your taxes went up again, so here's your new monthly payment amount!  taxes

@misfitmorgan are you guys still as snow covered as us? We have 6 inches or more everywhere... And mud too. Great fun!


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I have family that use to live in Brighton, Michigan on Brighton Lake.  They were paying over $10,000 a year in taxes but moved down to Florida when they retired.
> 
> Our taxes on a house in a subdivision in South Carolina was almost $3,000.  I like our $641 a year but that is going to go up a small amount since we had them do a new assessment this winter because we had made so many improvements.


You had them come out and reassess? They usually do that on their own if you had to get a permit.


----------



## Mike CHS

We don't need permits for anything here other than septic and new electric service.  All they check is the meter hook up and you have to have one light working when they inspect.

There is such a small population around us that everyone knows everyone else.  The assessor is known for being more favorable to land owners if they notify the County Clerk when major changes are made.  If they have to work at it harder your assessment has a tendency to be higher.

Long story short about folks are here - We didn't have a mailbox on our road for almost the first two years that we owned the place.  The only thing we were concerned about was our annual tax bill and we had that sent to South Carolina.  We had an appliance fiasco with Sears over an appliance delivery and rather than give us a refund on our card they cut a check and sent it to the delivery address here in Tennessee.

Coincidentally we were at the Post Office in Cornersville about a week later to set up a P.O. Box so we could start routing things here.  When we were filling out the paperwork the Post Master brought out an envelope (from Sears) that was marked undeliverable (no mail box) and said he was waiting to here that we were at the house so they could make it here to deliver what was obviously a check.  They knew who we were and that we were part time even though we had never been in the Post Office.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I had to go looking for it, but I found the post I was looking for! I had read a post on my favorite pig site about how to tell if a gilt or sow is pregnant, here it is!
> 
> http://sugarmtnfarm.com/2011/08/28/pregnancy-indicator/



Thank you much @Baymule 



Bruce said:


> OUCH! That will screw your credit rating big time. Don't know if there is a way to take it off the report quickly even if it was paid in full today. I ASSUME they keep a "no payments for 2 years" on your report a LONG time. You would want to explain that to any REA you talk to. Oh, and if you are going to "engage" an agent, get a broker, they have to work for YOU, REAs work for the seller even if you engaged them. At least that is how I think it works.



Thankfully they are not back to back and he has strong credit otherwise so score wise he isnt to bad it just looks bad. It is now paid up to date and we will make the next several months payments on time so it shows current for a few months and that should help at least as far as the bank would be concerned..i hope.



Mike CHS said:


> I have family that use to live in Brighton, Michigan on Brighton Lake.  They were paying over $10,000 a year in taxes but moved down to Florida when they retired.
> 
> Our taxes on a house in a subdivision in South Carolina was almost $3,000.  I like our $641 a year but that is going to go up a small amount since we had them do a new assessment this winter because we had made so many improvements.



Brighton is quite a ways downstate from me so they are charged more and being lake front makes it even more.



NH homesteader said:


> Today I got my letter in the mail saying oh hey your taxes went up again, so here's your new monthly payment amount!  taxes
> 
> @misfitmorgan are you guys still as snow covered as us? We have 6 inches or more everywhere... And mud too. Great fun!



Nope we are done with snow and it has been warm for the past 2 weeks.....warm to us northern people anyhow daytime 30-40s 

We never really got much snow this year, it was werid but im not upset about it!! 



Mike CHS said:


> We don't need permits for anything here other than septic and new electric service.  All they check is the meter hook up and you have to have one light working when they inspect.
> 
> There is such a small population around us that everyone knows everyone else.  The assessor is known for being more favorable to land owners if they notify the County Clerk when major changes are made.  If they have to work at it harder your assessment has a tendency to be higher.
> 
> Long story short about folks are here - We didn't have a mailbox on our road for almost the first two years that we owned the place.  The only thing we were concerned about was our annual tax bill and we had that sent to South Carolina.  We had an appliance fiasco with Sears over an appliance delivery and rather than give us a refund on our card they cut a check and sent it to the delivery address here in Tennessee.
> 
> Coincidentally we were at the Post Office in Cornersville about a week later to set up a P.O. Box so we could start routing things here.  When we were filling out the paperwork the Post Master brought out an envelope (from Sears) that was marked undeliverable (no mail box) and said he was waiting to here that we were at the house so they could make it here to deliver what was obviously a check.  They knew who we were and that we were part time even though we had never been in the Post Office.



Thats funny..and a lot like things around here but we are not quite that small. Everyone does know most everyone else locally though.


----------



## NH homesteader

Apparently I am due to get 6 inches Friday... A little jealous of your lack of snow! Lol!


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## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Apparently I am due to get 6 inches Friday... A little jealous of your lack of snow! Lol!


 
i'm sorry kind of.....if it makes you feel any better we are suppose to get some snow tomorrow


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## NH homesteader

Yay lucky us!


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> We don't need permits for anything here other than septic and new electric service.  All they check is the meter hook up and you have to have one light working when they inspect.
> 
> There is such a small population around us that everyone knows everyone else.  The assessor is known for being more favorable to land owners if they notify the County Clerk when major changes are made.  If they have to work at it harder your assessment has a tendency to be higher.
> 
> Long story short about folks are here - We didn't have a mailbox on our road for almost the first two years that we owned the place.  The only thing we were concerned about was our annual tax bill and we had that sent to South Carolina.  We had an appliance fiasco with Sears over an appliance delivery and rather than give us a refund on our card they cut a check and sent it to the delivery address here in Tennessee.
> 
> Coincidentally we were at the Post Office in Cornersville about a week later to set up a P.O. Box so we could start routing things here.  When we were filling out the paperwork the Post Master brought out an envelope (from Sears) that was marked undeliverable (no mail box) and said he was waiting to here that we were at the house so they could make it here to deliver what was obviously a check.  They knew who we were and that we were part time even though we had never been in the Post Office.


Yep the SMALL post offices go the extra mile for their patrons. "Officially" they are supposed to return it after 3 days for NMR (No Mail Receptacle) but in the small offices the carrier and clerk knows where everyone lives, who is out of town, who is new, who's related to who so when there is an NMR and someone comes in, the clerk can say "Your Mom has a letter but the mailbox is down". For some reason that is quite common during the plowing and "losing control in the snow" season  I bet if you hadn't gone to the PO to get the box, but the carrier saw your car at the house s/he would have come up to the house to find you and let you know that letter was being held.


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## misfitmorgan

I've decided that if i was going to have a sheep breed simply for how happy and giggly they made me feel whenever i saw them...i would have to get Valais Blacknose sheep, no question!!

I went with my mother to have a biopsy done last week and i found out last night the results came back as cancer, breast cancer to be precise. I have to go back to the doctor with my mom on the 11th so they can biopsy her lymph nodes to see if it has spread outside the tumor. The really upsetting part is my mom is only 56. So 2017 still sucks and seems it is only going to get worse.

In other news we went on Sunday and picked up some more pigs. We got two 230lb gilts, a 3 month old gilt and two 6 week old barrows. We only took the barrows because we got a good deal on them, all in all we got a good deal on all of the pigs. 
Last year DH made a decision to pay $400 for a 275lb pig named Sarah, and then further decided to let in the guy we farm with and split her buy price to $200 each. So 1 pig $400.
So this time i looked for pigs and i made the decision on who we got. We ended up paying $590 for all 5 pigs. Personalities are excellent so far, all of the new pigs are friendly and calm.

The barrows will end up being sold as meat pigs at approx 145lbs each to a specific buyer who will pay $3/lb live weight for that size pig, which means the barrows will return approx $870 alone while only needing us to add about 100lbs to them. Win win for us.

The 3 month old gilt seems a bit lean so she got wormed, an iron shot, a vitamin b shot and is getting a bit of extra feed. 

Our girls in the breeding pen are hopefully bred, we are still waiting to see if they cycle again or not. If they do not cycle Al the borrowed boar goes home, atm he is in a pen next to them. We are pretty sure at least 3 of the 4 are bred atm.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sorry to hear about your Mom....will add her to the Prayer List. The advances with that, has been very favorable to many and hopefully she will be in that group of those that Overcame it.
The pigs sound really good, seems to be a very good deal all the way around.


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Sorry to hear about your Mom....will add her to the Prayer List. The advances with that, has been very favorable to many and hopefully she will be in that group of those that Overcame it.
> The pigs sound really good, seems to be a very good deal all the way around.



Thank you much @CntryBoy777  The most worrying part for me is she is refusing to do chemo or radiation. My mother has worked in nursing homes where they get the Long care cancer patients for the past 25yrs and has seen first hand what that does to a person and exactly how many people die from the treatments themselves. My step-mother listened to the doctors and did 5 round of chemo in 7yrs, they wanted to do another round which she refused and she ended up dying 2 months later at 92lbs. My step-mom was 5'8" so at 92lbs she was a skeleton literally, when they were trying to convince her to do the 6th round of chemo she only weighed 106lbs. My grandmother has radiation because she had cancer in her lymph nodes and she showed my mom the damage it caused to her breast as the treatments progressed. We do not know if cancer runs in my family on my mothers side as she was adopted. 

On top of that the hospital they wanted to send her to is known for not knowing WTH they are doing many many times over. They have done ridiculous things and their attitude is "oh well" when something goes wrong. They are avoided by most like the plague.

If my mom absolutely had to have treatment of any sort because nothing else helped/worked she said she would go to cancer centers of america, the only hitch is the closest one is almost 8hrs away one way. I would have to be the one to go with her which would mean an overnight stay in a motel at the least and me missing 2 days of work.


----------



## NH homesteader

so sorry about your mom's diagnosis. They have made improvements in cancer care, if you go to the right place.my grandfather has been doing chemo for a few months now and hasn't been sick from it at all. I hope she finds what is right for her and that she is able to overcome this. 


On the pig note, I don't believe you should allow your husband to go pig shopping again. Good find!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I might not ought to post this, but I think it needs to be said, if ya disagree or if it is upsetting....please forgive me.
I totally understand her way of thinking, because I'm of the same mindset. I will not go to the hospital again....except for a broken bone or something that can be healed or cured. If I am diagnosed with cancer I will just ride the wave as long as it lasts.
It is much easier for the person with it, than for those that are expected to honor and respect those wishes. However, if you have the desire to honor and follow your wishes, you have to do the same towards others. She knows, has seen, and has witnessed many of those battles for yrs....and has decided that she doesn't want that for herself. The loving and supporting thing to do is to be supportive, and be there to see them thru that battle. It is difficult and hard, I will not lie about it, but this is the position that I was in with my Mom and her lung cancer. It hurt and was one of the most difficult things that I have ever done. She was diagnosed in April of '12, and we buried her in August of '12. When one has such a disease it is much better to go rather quickly than to linger on with no quality of life. I was by my Mom's side all the way to the end....and in fact, I was the one that administered the final dose of drugs to ease her out. It truly is not Biblical to "Fight for every Minute of Life" that one can squeeze out. I won't get into that here, but I will if ya PM me. Both Joyce and I feel the same way, and if one wants their wishes supported, then they must be willing to be a supporter of others. By the time that the end did come, there was relief instead of sorrow and grief. I will be here for ya, and have been in those shoes, so I will be Supportive and pray for your Strength, Comfort, and Understanding any time ya need me just hollar....


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> so sorry about your mom's diagnosis. They have made improvements in cancer care, if you go to the right place.my grandfather has been doing chemo for a few months now and hasn't been sick from it at all. I hope she finds what is right for her and that she is able to overcome this.
> 
> 
> On the pig note, I don't believe you should allow your husband to go pig shopping again. Good find!



Thank you @NH homesteader and i agree i told him when he told me he bought a $400 dollar unproven pig that he was crazy. Meanwhile i am atm looking at a $500 ram lamb  and approx another $500 in ewes....



CntryBoy777 said:


> I might not ought to post this, but I think it needs to be said, if ya disagree or if it is upsetting....please forgive me.
> I totally understand her way of thinking, because I'm of the same mindset. I will not go to the hospital again....except for a broken bone or something that can be healed or cured. If I am diagnosed with cancer I will just ride the wave as long as it lasts.
> It is much easier for the person with it, than for those that are expected to honor and respect those wishes. However, if you have the desire to honor and follow your wishes, you have to do the same towards others. She knows, has seen, and has witnessed many of those battles for yrs....and has decided that she doesn't want that for herself. The loving and supporting thing to do is to be supportive, and be there to see them thru that battle. It is difficult and hard, I will not lie about it, but this is the position that I was in with my Mom and her lung cancer. It hurt and was one of the most difficult things that I have ever done. She was diagnosed in April of '12, and we buried her in August of '12. When one has such a disease it is much better to go rather quickly than to linger on with no quality of life. I was by my Mom's side all the way to the end....and in fact, I was the one that administered the final dose of drugs to ease her out. It truly is not Biblical to "Fight for every Minute of Life" that one can squeeze out. I won't get into that here, but I will if ya PM me. Both Joyce and I feel the same way, and if one wants their wishes supported, then they must be willing to be a supporter of others. By the time that the end did come, there was relief instead of sorrow and grief. I will be here for ya, and have been in those shoes, so I will be Supportive and pray for your Strength, Comfort, and Understanding any time ya need me just hollar....



I'm fairly hard to upset so dont worry about that. I do believe in respecting others wishes as well and i think it is definitely harder on the other people. When my step-mom decided not to do chemo again we were devastated but we supported her decision. 
It is always harder for the people caring for a person near the end of their lifespan i am a firm believer in that. My grandmother the same one who had the breast cancer complained for 5years(2yrs after the breast cancer treatment and cleared of cancer by the docs) that she didnt feel well, they did all sorts of test and kept telling her nothing was wrong with her. Finally after 5yrs they decided to do an exploratory surgery into her abdomen. They found all of her internal organs covered in cancer, closed her up and told my mother she would be lucky to make it more then a month. They asked my mom where she wanted her admitted, my mom told her no where i am taking her home. My grandma had told us for decades that she never ever wanted to be in a home for any reason and she wanted to die in her own house and in her own bed...so thats what my moms goal was. My mom told the doctor and nurses not to tell my grandma she had cancer and that she was just taking her home like normal to recover from surgery.
I lived in Pennsylvania at the time and my mother called me bawling to tell me the news and told me i had to come home and help her take care of my grandma, so i did...there was no one else who could. So my mother and i took care of my grandma for the next 5 weeks until she passed away. After the first 2 weeks her mental capacity started to leave her as she though i was her sister, after the first 4 weeks she was in so much pain we had to have hospice issue her some pain meds in a patch form. 
Honestly the hospice nurses were funny because they would come stop to "care" for my grandma and my mom would tell them she is all set so they would take vitals and gave us the pain med patches and thats it.
In the last week my grandma was alive i prayer god would have mercy and take her soon. She was in so much paid and mentally no longer there, just a husk of my grandma. The night before she passed my mother and i laid on the floor of the living room in my grandma's house...next to the bed she was in and listened her death rattle later that same night we had to clean up black vomit. Neither of us said a thing to each other about either event, we both knew exactly what those signs ment.
Those 5 weeks were the hardest 5 weeks of my life so i know partly what you went thru with your mom and i so hope i do not have to go thru it with mine.

i dont think my mother would actually choose death over treatment i just think she sees it as a last resort.


----------



## babsbag

I am sorry to hear about your mom.  Cancer puts the fear in all of us and I am praying that hers is localized. 

Sitting in ICU right now I certainly understand honoring one's wishes. But I also believe that God gave us the tools and the ability to learn to heal many illnesses. There are many cancer survivors and I would never agree with not doing an initial treatment when there is a reasonable chance for success. The prolonged and frequent treatments for recurring cancer is different but IMO no person in otherwise good health should go down without a fight.


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## TAH

Sorry to hear about you'r mother...I will be praying! 

I am not sure if you about the Documentary "the truth about cancer"? It is a really cool film and shows how to cure it with natural remedies.


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## Baymule

I am sorry about your mom's diagnosis. Others have already said it better than me, so I'll just say I agree with the above. We are here if you need to talk.


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## Goat Whisperer

Hey, haven't been able to keep up with everyone's journals but read about your mom. So sorry to hear about her diagnosis. 


We will be praying as well.


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> I am sorry to hear about your mom.  Cancer puts the fear in all of us and I am praying that hers is localized.
> 
> Sitting in ICU right now I certainly understand honoring one's wishes. But I also believe that God gave us the tools and the ability to learn to heal many illnesses. There are many cancer survivors and I would never agree with not doing an initial treatment when there is a reasonable chance for success. The prolonged and frequent treatments for recurring cancer is different but IMO no person in otherwise good health should go down without a fight.



I too wish she would do at least one round but it is her choice and i won't be mad/upset at her for anything she decides. I told her maybe she could try one treatment and if she didnt want to do more then she didnt have to but she is worried they will try to pressure her into doing more....i told her i would go with her and if she didnt wanna do more i would tell them where to go.



TAH said:


> Sorry to hear about you'r mother...I will be praying!
> 
> I am not sure if you about the Documentary "the truth about cancer"? It is a really cool film and shows how to cure it with natural remedies.



I have not seen it but i will tell my mom, that is what she is trying to do. She completely changed her diet and some other stuff.



Baymule said:


> I am sorry about your mom's diagnosis. Others have already said it better than me, so I'll just say I agree with the above. We are here if you need to talk.



@Baymule i always appreciate your comments...you always put that Baymule spin on things.



Goat Whisperer said:


> Hey, haven't been able to keep up with everyone's journals but read about your mom. So sorry to hear about her diagnosis.
> 
> 
> We will be praying as well.



Thank you everyone!!!!


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## TAH

https://go.thetruthaboutcancer.com/


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## misfitmorgan

TAH said:


> https://go.thetruthaboutcancer.com/



Thank you @TAH


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## Bruce

from here too. You've been having MUCH too rough a time.

I agree she needs to be the one to decide but I hope she will reconsider "no way, no how". The doctors at the cancer center should be able to detail the facts and chances of certain treatments working and how well. An informed decision is a good decision  "We have a 90% chance of beating this" is a whole different decision than "Do the chemo and radiation and we can probably get you 1 more year".

My wife's aunt beat breast cancer sometime before I met my wife in 1989. Her aunt was 80 at that time and I don't know how far back she had cancer. She died in 2005 at 96. Treatment now is WAY better than it was 20 years ago let alone 40 or 50 years ago! 

My step mother beat breast cancer in her early 60's (around the mid 1990's). She developed cervical cancer in late 2006. She did treatments until spring of 2007 when it was clear they weren't going to kill off the cancer and there was no reason to continue just to "gain" a few months. At home hospice was wonderful. 

 for you and your mom AND the rest of your family.


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## Latestarter

So sorry to hear of your continuing difficulties... I hope the prognosis for your mom is a good one and that she can beat this and stay around for some time to come. Not much else I can say that hasn't already been said. Smack hubby for spending all that dough on a hog... Nice find on your pig purchase... Best wishes on the ram and ewes... Hope you can strike a "pig like" bargain there as well.


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## norseofcourse

I can't imagine how difficult it was to learn of your mom's diagnosis.  I hope if she does decide on some treatment, that it is successful with as few side effects as possible.  Things are much more advanced now than they used to be.  May you all have the strength to get through whatever she decides.


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## misfitmorgan

The final results of my mom's tests came back. She has some abnormal cells in 2 of her lymphnodes. They are going to schedule surgery on friday to remove the lump but she is refusing to let them take out lymphnodes. Hopefully everything turns out alright.

On Easter Sunday we came home to find our female llama dead. DH and our friend Goody did a necropsy and showed me the problem. She had VSD and it was very very obvious she basically had a weak heart wall and it finally gave out on her. As far as we can tell it does not look like she suffered for long when she did go down.

We also had a lamb born Easter morning. It is all white and super cute so of course it is a boy!


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is good to hear from ya, I know ya are busy with work, garden, and animals. You and all your family remain in our prayers and hoping with ya that things turn out Good for your Mom. Sorry about the llama, but Congrats on the lamb. Hopefully, things will settle down so ya can get some rest. Mental drain will wear ya out faster than physical drain. So, take care of yourself and tho it can't be seen or touched, you have others supporting ya....


----------



## NH homesteader

and  to your mom. I hope the surgery is successful.

Congrats on the lamb, even if it is a boy! D sorry about the llama. Glad she didn't suffer, though. 

Hopefully spring brings good things to you, your family and your farm. Enough of the bad, you're overdue for some positives.


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> It is good to hear from ya, I know ya are busy with work, garden, and animals. You and all your family remain in our prayers and hoping with ya that things turn out Good for your Mom. Sorry about the llama, but Congrats on the lamb. Hopefully, things will settle down so ya can get some rest. Mental drain will wear ya out faster than physical drain. So, take care of yourself and tho it can't be seen or touched, you have others supporting ya....


Thank you. No garden here yet but work and animals always. We can't put in our garden here until june 1st...well you can but only if you wanna risk the frost killing it all. I don't know that i feel like doing anything much with a garden this year at all. I feel to unsure if/when the owners of the place we are on are gonna sell it or kick us off.



NH homesteader said:


> and  to your mom. I hope the surgery is successful.
> 
> Congrats on the lamb, even if it is a boy! D sorry about the llama. Glad she didn't suffer, though.
> 
> Hopefully spring brings good things to you, your family and your farm. Enough of the bad, you're overdue for some positives.



 I certainly hope so


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## misfitmorgan

Went with my mother on friday to go see her surgeon. The surgeon said they can not perform a mastectomy or any surgery until the tumor is shrank because it has started to metastasize. So the surgeon send us to the cancer center and to see my mom's appointed oncologist. We finally were told exactly what type of cancer my mother has .....its bad.

The cancer she has is a very aggressive form that feeds on progesterone, estrogene, protein, and she is her2 positive which is really not good i guess. She has to have more tests done on the 3rd of may(MRI, Pet Scan, Bone density scan) and then go to see her oncologist on the 5th for the results. The oncologist wants to treat my mom with 6 months of docetaxel(chemo drug) and  perjeta and then 6 months of perjeta and herceptin, then do surgery and reconstruction if needed.

My mom still does not want to do chemo...so now she is looking into clinical trials, i found one for her that is just herceptin and perjeta with not having to be on chemo first.

The oncologist told my mom they do not do any trials there and that according to the FDA you can not have herceptin unless you have had chemo first......which is a lie.

Anyhow keep praying please. Thank you everyone!


Now for some fun!

The is the ram lamb we had born on Easter Sunday (pic taken last night)....feel free to ignore my lovely barn attire 





This is our Natural Colored Suffolk Ram Lamb who turned 8 weeks old this past weekend. Boy did he not want to stand, he was flopping all over.....it may be related to DH throwing down grain before i could get my pics.



The heart is because i am making a horrible face       The blur is Ivy trying to get my attention.


----------



## NH homesteader

Sorry for the bad news. My friend works for a Dr doing clinical trials of cancer drugs. Wish I remembered what kind. She did say people typically have to do chemo first (my grandfather has stage 4 lung cancer so I have talked to her about that). I hope you get some positive news at the next appointment. Just curious why she doesn't want to do chemo? My grandfather has not been sick at all from it. He is however exhausted and confused (he's also 87). 

Side note- CANCER SUCKS


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sorry to hear the news about your mom...our prayers have never ceased for you all...
The animals look Good...except those that can't be still and are a blur....I'm sure they do too, but just can't see. Those clothes look like our everyday attire around here...except for the sweatshirt....too warm for that now, just T-shirts here.


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Sorry for the bad news. My friend works for a Dr doing clinical trials of cancer drugs. Wish I remembered what kind. She did say people typically have to do chemo first (my grandfather has stage 4 lung cancer so I have talked to her about that). I hope you get some positive news at the next appointment. Just curious why she doesn't want to do chemo? My grandfather has not been sick at all from it. He is however exhausted and confused (he's also 87).
> 
> Side note- CANCER SUCKS



My mother doesnt want chemo because it is a poison literally. I can understand her thoughts on it but still when your dealing with cancer the "what you wanna do's" only go so far. The two drugs she wants to try first Herceptin and perjeta are as bad a chemo which i have tried to tell her but she still thinks they are better. 

She is also worried she wont be able to work while on chemo...again the side effects for the other two drugs are the same as chemo. 

She also wants to try some insulin and low dose chemo thing she found online but i looked into it more and it looks like some kind of scam and potentially very dangerous as it involves a very sudden blood sugar drop and the low dose chemo could make it harder to treat with normal doses of chemo later. 

Honestly i am trying very hard not to get upset with her, i am not all about doing what the doctor says but cancer isnt something to mess around with esp since she is already we suspect a stage 3 with N1 and quite possibly leaning towards being metastatic plus being triple positive and Her2 positive. 

She keeps finding other peoples stuff online where they did this or that and it shrunk the tumor/cancer....but it doesnt say the type, location, or stage of cancer or have any proof with it and most seem to be trying to sell something like "the secret cure for cancer" or some other scam sounding thing.

The counselor they gave her is super super nice and told her most people who do chemo now are surprised that it isnt as bad as they thought it was going to be. Yes they are very tired and have other symptoms but it isnt the nightmare they thought it would be. One of the patients there that we got to talk to is a principal and didnt miss a single day of work while going thru chemo.

I think mostly my mom is scared and thinks the chemo will kill her. I would be very scared to but she is a resilient person and i think she would be alright. I'm worried if she does not do the chemo she will die in the next year or two and i dont know what i would do then or what my dad would do. My mom is only in her mid-50s i think she should be fighting this.

Of course i can not tell my mom all of this stuff because i dont want her to feel bad or like i am making her do chemo because thats not right either but its hard not to say anything and just sit and worry about her dying soon. The most worrying part is the tumor went from undetectable outside of a mammogram to the size of a walnut in 13 months and has continued to grow over the past 2 months. Now she has to wait 2 weeks for the other tests then she wants to do a treatment of perjeta and then wait a month to see if it does anything....so 6 weeks to figure out if it will work and if it doesnt work it will be another 2 weeks on top of that before they can start another treatment schedule. The tumor currently is only about half an inch from her breast bone and if it goes into the bone it will be bad bad bad which another 2 months could definitely allow it to do.



CntryBoy777 said:


> Sorry to hear the news about your mom...our prayers have never ceased for you all...
> The animals look Good...except those that can't be still and are a blur....I'm sure they do too, but just can't see. Those clothes look like our everyday attire around here...except for the sweatshirt....too warm for that now, just T-shirts here.



Last night it was 36f daytime was warmer of course but that pic was at about 8:30pm.


----------



## NH homesteader

I worked with someone who had chemo, she missed the day of chemo and the day after but that was it. My uncle had chemo and worked through it. They've come a long way, my grandmother died of cancer 10 years ago and was SO sick from chemo, but the people I know who have had it in the past few years have been ok.

I'm not trying to like force chemo down anyone's throat here, I believe people have to make their own choices. Just trying to say the upsides. I understand any decision people make for their own lives, it's theirs to make. And she's young.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The secondary proble is she has worked in a nursing home/extended care/long term care home for something like 24+yrs and she has seen people come in there being treated with chemo and radiation. I tried to tell her ummm mom those are the worst of the worst if they are in the extended care home, what kind of cancer did they have, what stage was it when it was found, how many rounds of treatment did they have, how old were they.....but she still thinks it must be extremely horrible and going to kill her. It shocks me a bit because normally my mom is a very logical person.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is such a difficult position to be placed in and certainly to deal with, for sure. It sure sounds like she is in partial denial of the severity of the issue at hand, just hoping it will just go away if they ignore or refuse to accept it. I certainly agree with ya over such long delays with the tumor growing at such a rate and you are right about it getting to the bone. There really are no words to truly comfort ya with, it is just a really tough stuation to be in and experience. My heart truly goes out to ya, and will surely continue with increased prayer for your strength and wisdom.....


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> It is such a difficult position to be placed in and certainly to deal with, for sure. It sure sounds like she is in partial denial of the severity of the issue at hand, just hoping it will just go away if they ignore or refuse to accept it. I certainly agree with ya over such long delays with the tumor growing at such a rate and you are right about it getting to the bone. There really are no words to truly comfort ya with, it is just a really tough stuation to be in and experience. My heart truly goes out to ya, and will surely continue with increased prayer for your strength and wisdom.....



It really sucks but i am mostly just along for the ride it seems. I keep having dreams about my brother which are really poopy to wake up with in the morning, but slightly comforting too.

This weekend we are set i believe to go pick up 3 registered hereford pigs.....2 gilts and 1 boar. We should also be getting our new ram he is half Slack and his dam is a frame ewe so he would definitely put some nice size in the herd for us. The hereford boar should be ready to breed for 4-h piglets and the new ram should be ready to breed for fall of 2018 and will likely replace the smaller of our current two rams. I'm still shopping around for some ewe lambs to add to the herd but finding quality suffolk ewe up here is hard to do it seems.

Our 8 week old ram should be getting picked up by him new owner. AL the borrowed boar went home on Monday....it looks like Eva is in heat. If Eva didnt take she has to go to freezer camp. She didnt take the AI(always harder on gilts) and now she had been with the borrowed boar for two cycles+ so if she hasnt taken she has some sort of fertility issue. Eva is a half sister to our boar who had a fertility problem so it is possible. We currently have 11 pigs in the barn which we will be adding 3 more making a total of 14. The total includes 1 sow, 3 300-400lb gilt, 2 275lbs gilt, 1 175lbs gilt, 1 175lb boar, 1 75lb gilt, 2 50lb barrows, 2 65lb gilts, and 1 80lb barrow. I'm starting to think switching from sows to gilts all at once might have been a mistake....lesson learned. Both barrows will be sold for whole roasting in approx june/july, the 175lb boar is already sold for butcher and just needs to make weight.

The llama still seems sad he lost his "wife" but has been much more curious about what those weird furless 2 leggers are doing. The new lamb is for sale atm no takers yet. The ducks have a huge nest in the barn that the females are sharing....right next to the pig pen  so hopefully when/if they hatch mom takes them the other direction.


----------



## NH homesteader

Wow you have a lot going on! And a lot of pigs! What size do you sell as roasters? 

My mom texted me this morning to ask if our pigs were missing (thank goodness they're not), on her way to work there was a big pig walking up the road.... Lol! Wonder who's missing a pig?


----------



## Baymule

Oh please post pictures of your Hereford pigs!!  I love their markings, they are so pretty! We are raising 3 Red Wattle feeder pigs and 1 Hampshire. The Hamp belongs to a neighbor that didn't have a pig pen, but wanted a feeder pig too. He just pays us for the feed, so it's all good.

On your Mom. You need to tell her your feelings. A real sit down, daughter/mother talk from your heart. At the rate she is going, she won't be here much longer and it will always nag at you that maybe you should have spoke up. Yes, respect her wishes, but she needs to know that her decision isn't only all about her. Her decision impacts her entire family and you need to respectfully tell her so.

My heart goes out to you because you are trying so hard to do what your Mom wants, even though you don't agree with her choice. At the same time, you don't want to push her into something she doesn't want to do, for then you will be the "bad guy". But if you do nothing and she dies, you will always wonder if maybe it would have turned out differently if you had spoken up. Choose your words carefully, speak with love, tell her your fear of losing her and make sure that she knows she has your support, no matter what her choice. This is weighing heavy on you and you need to speak your feelings or this will be a burden you bear for the rest of your life. You don't want to look back and wonder "what if".

She thinks the treatment is going to kill her. The cancer will kill her. Her fear of the treatment is greater than her fear of dying. Maybe you can help her to see that she has nothing to lose by trying.


----------



## misfitmorgan

NH homesteader said:


> Wow you have a lot going on! And a lot of pigs! What size do you sell as roasters?
> 
> My mom texted me this morning to ask if our pigs were missing (thank goodness they're not), on her way to work there was a big pig walking up the road.... Lol! Wonder who's missing a pig?



We do roasters between 100-145lbs hang weight so approx 130-190lbs live weight, our normal butcher pigs are 250-300lbs live weight and our family size whole roasters are between 50-70lbs hang weight. Our family size roasters cost the most per pound because we dont like selling them that small. Normal butcher pigs we sell for $2/lb live weight or 2.50/lb hang weight whichever the customer prefers. The bigger roaster we sell for $3-4/lb hang weight depending on the buyer sometimes more if the one guy we sell to is short and needs a second at the last minute, those pigs are more because it is typically one of our young pigs intended to be a breeder that he gets. The 145lb limit is because most commercial spits can only do up to 145lbs without killing the motor or bending the spit rod. The family size roasters are $5/lb hang weight.



Baymule said:


> Oh please post pictures of your Hereford pigs!!  I love their markings, they are so pretty! We are raising 3 Red Wattle feeder pigs and 1 Hampshire. The Hamp belongs to a neighbor that didn't have a pig pen, but wanted a feeder pig too. He just pays us for the feed, so it's all good.
> 
> On your Mom. You need to tell her your feelings. A real sit down, daughter/mother talk from your heart. At the rate she is going, she won't be here much longer and it will always nag at you that maybe you should have spoke up. Yes, respect her wishes, but she needs to know that her decision isn't only all about her. Her decision impacts her entire family and you need to respectfully tell her so.
> 
> My heart goes out to you because you are trying so hard to do what your Mom wants, even though you don't agree with her choice. At the same time, you don't want to push her into something she doesn't want to do, for then you will be the "bad guy". But if you do nothing and she dies, you will always wonder if maybe it would have turned out differently if you had spoken up. Choose your words carefully, speak with love, tell her your fear of losing her and make sure that she knows she has your support, no matter what her choice. This is weighing heavy on you and you need to speak your feelings or this will be a burden you bear for the rest of your life. You don't want to look back and wonder "what if".
> 
> She thinks the treatment is going to kill her. The cancer will kill her. Her fear of the treatment is greater than her fear of dying. Maybe you can help her to see that she has nothing to lose by trying.



I love the hereford markings too....thats why i want them.
This is their sale pics, The first pic is the gilts and the second pic is the boar.








I will see if i can get better pics once i get them home and in quarantine.

My mother has told me she is likely doing chemo...thankfully...i so hope she does and quickly. I send her to a forum for triple positive breast cancer patients many of which have Her2 positive as well...so i think she might realize how serious it really is now. I believe she is currently a Stage 3a or a T3 N1 M0....the oncologist should tell us on the 5th i believe.

Picking up our ram may be delayed. The owner wants to hold him off a bit longer and make sure he is going to grow the way he wants because we are paying specifically for his Slack genes and large frame mother so he should grow and fill out like a weed. We are also picking up 2 ewe lambs from the same seller who are unrelated to the ram but are also from large frame ewe and their sire is half Slack and half Kimm. The ewe and ram should pack some serious size into our herd, muscle, and over all vigor/parasite resistance should be improved along with mothering instincts being amplified. Really Kimm work on the entire package for the meat industry not just focusing on the showing world so im super happy to be getting some of their blood in our barn.

I finally bit the bullet and ordered Oster Showmaster shears yesterday(from one vendor) another 13-tooth arizona thin comb and 2 extra cutters(different vendor). I also bought a few halters, some kool lube, and a trimming head piece.

I made a milking stand weekend before last(i think) out of scrap wood from DHs work and four 2x4x8s....i'm going to make a second one on an incline for the sheep and use the trimming/fitting stand head piece instead of the headgate style i made for the first one. Adding wheels to the front of the fitting stand for easy movement. So for less then $80 i will have one milk stand and one fitting stand. The milk stand is very strong but light enough i can still pick the whole thing up on my own(bit awkward but i can move it).

The only hitch in the plan is i am at the point of needing to attach the sliding portion of the headgate and i am not sure how much gap there should be at that bottom hinge to allow me to close it on the goats but not you know guillotine their heads as DH calls it  So if anyone has a large breed milking stand and wants to get a measurement for me i would greatly appreciate it, I just need the width of the gap when the gate is closed all the way.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure glad to hear your Mom is at least hearing ya, sometimes it takes a bit for things to be accepted...
I really like those hereford pigs, I'd never seen any like that before. Those will be interesting to keep up with and watch. Hope the shears hold up and peel the fiber off your herd...


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## Baymule

That is some good news about your mom! I am so relieved and I know you are. Go mom! 

Love the pigs!!! They are gorgeous! If I raised breeding stock, Herefords would be at the top of my list.


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## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> My mom texted me this morning to ask if our pigs were missing (thank goodness they're not), on her way to work there was a big pig walking up the road.... Lol! Wonder who's missing a pig?



@Latestarter but I don't think his pig made it all the way up th NH!



Baymule said:


> On your Mom. You need to tell her your feelings. A real sit down, daughter/mother talk from your heart. At the rate she is going, she won't be here much longer and it will always nag at you that maybe you should have spoke up. Yes, respect her wishes, but she needs to know that her decision isn't only all about her. Her decision impacts her entire family and you need to respectfully tell her so.
> 
> My heart goes out to you because you are trying so hard to do what your Mom wants, even though you don't agree with her choice. At the same time, you don't want to push her into something she doesn't want to do, for then you will be the "bad guy". But if you do nothing and she dies, you will always wonder if maybe it would have turned out differently if you had spoken up. Choose your words carefully, speak with love, tell her your fear of losing her and make sure that she knows she has your support, no matter what her choice. This is weighing heavy on you and you need to speak your feelings or this will be a burden you bear for the rest of your life. You don't want to look back and wonder "what if".
> 
> She thinks the treatment is going to kill her. The cancer will kill her. Her fear of the treatment is greater than her fear of dying. Maybe you can help her to see that she has nothing to lose by trying.


Well said @Baymule 

Harsh as this sounds, she needn't worry whether she can work while on Chemo because if she doesn't go for the heavy duty treatment (given her current state and rapid progression) she won't be working anyway. REALLY GLAD to read the further post that she is going to do chemo. 100% guarantee fix? Nope, but the odds are WAY better than doing nothing and hoping it will go away. There are *a whole lot* of breast cancer survivors out there, she probably knows a few that never mentioned it to her. 

 to you and your family @misfitmorgan


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## NH homesteader

I'm happy to hear your mom reconsidered as well. Thanks for the pig info! Love the Hereford colors!!


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## misfitmorgan

_


CntryBoy777 said:



			Sure glad to hear your Mom is at least hearing ya, sometimes it takes a bit for things to be accepted...
I really like those hereford pigs, I'd never seen any like that before. Those will be interesting to keep up with and watch. Hope the shears hold up and peel the fiber off your herd...

Click to expand...

_
Makes me feel a bit better.
I'm hoping the hsears will work well, i have heard a few people say they had to send the combs and cutters off to get sharpened....off the brand new shears before they could use them so i hope that isnt the case but if it is i did order an exactly comb and two cuters which should come sharp.

_


Baymule said:



			That is some good news about your mom! I am so relieved and I know you are. Go mom!

Love the pigs!!! They are gorgeous! If I raised breeding stock, Herefords would be at the top of my list.
		
Click to expand...

_
Hopefully once she actually starts the chemo she wont be so scared about it and everything will go well for her....as well as chemo does anyhow.
_


Bruce said:



@Latestarter but I don't think his pig made it all the way up th NH!


Well said @Baymule

Harsh as this sounds, she needn't worry whether she can work while on Chemo because if she doesn't go for the heavy duty treatment (given her current state and rapid progression) she won't be working anyway. REALLY GLAD to read the further post that she is going to do chemo. 100% guarantee fix? Nope, but the odds are WAY better than doing nothing and hoping it will go away. There are *a whole lot* of breast cancer survivors out there, she probably knows a few that never mentioned it to her.

 to you and your family @misfitmorgan

Click to expand...

_
I know thats what i tried to bring up to her, her not working concern was for her health insurance. She can take long term disability but that only lasts so long. My dad is suppose to retire on June 1st and his work won't let him stay on longer even with just finding out about mom's cancer...so she cant use his insurance. They would get 18 months of cobra if it came down to it and there are other insurance options. She has been talking to a lot breast cancer survivors, the cancer center here put her in touch with a few that have recently gone through treatment. They also have it arranged to have two people who just finished treatment in the past month to talk to my mom, one that had a really good chemo experience and one that had a really bad one but survived....so she can see both sides.
_


NH homesteader said:



			I'm happy to hear your mom reconsidered as well. Thanks for the pig info! Love the Hereford colors!!
		
Click to expand...

_
No Problem!

For the headgate it looks like i am looking at a 3" gap...i guess if that isnt big enough  i will just notch the board later. The stand dimensions are 20"W x 48"L x 17H"....the headgate portion is approx 48" tall atm but i might end up chopping that down once i see how the goats fit on it.

The plan for the fitting stand is to make it on an angle. Premier1 hasnt even shipped my order yet  I also ordered some more electric netting, the livestock should be pleased but now DH says he thinks we need a new battery for the solar powered fencer


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## greybeard

MisfitMorgan...where to start...

Been thru this with my identical twin brother now since July 2015. It ain't fun.
2 different brain surgeries, 3 rounds of chemo--one of them on a port and pump for weeks, 3 rounds of radiation and currently taking rad every day for 13 straight days for yet another 2 tumors in his cerebellum. He has a good surgeon and he said "He handles surgery well and I can go in and get those 2 as well, but let's try radiation first and if that works, we'll follow up with chemo. If the radiation doesn't do the trick, I'll go in there and cut them out, then follow with chemo".

One of his chemos for esophagus was $14,000 per treatment, but the drug company picked the tab up on it.  It worked.

He never missed work except for when he was recovering from brain surgery. Lost his hair, hated to eat, pooped every 15 minutes and was weak from the chemo, now has spots on left lung and one in his spleen but he's still in the fight. I know he's tired of being sick and has told me so, and I'm not sure he will go the chemo route again. I've urged him each time to do what the docs want, but this time, I'm good with whatever he decides for quality of life no matter how much it is going to hurt me.

He and I are close, and I cannot adequately express how close. We know each other better and longer than anyone we have known, plus the 9 months in womb--identical means we were split from the same zygote. Worked together for decades, in Vietnam together, even shared a GF when we were young--she couldn't tell us apart) Same personalities, same physical appearance, same likes and dislikes. When he had his last physical episode with latest brain tumor, (they thought it was a stroke) I knew something had happened even before I got the call (He's in Arkansas). We just know. He and I have burned up US 59 going back and forth checking on each other for nearly 2 years now, driving straight thru the night each time for 8 hrs. (I have heart issues)

I am not much on alternative medicine at all. I always think of Steve Jobs(Apple) and one of the last interviews Steve Jobs gave, he expressed regret for seeking alternative care for his pancreatic cancer instead of the more accepted treatments.



> In October 2003, Jobs was diagnosed with cancer.[114] In mid-2004, he announced to his employees that he had a cancerous tumor in his pancreas.[115] The prognosis for pancreatic cancer is usually very poor;[116] Jobs stated that he had a rare, much less aggressive type, known as islet cell neuroendocrine tumor.[115]
> 
> Despite his diagnosis, Jobs resisted his doctors' recommendations for medical intervention for nine months,[117] instead relying on a pseudo-medicine diet to try natural healing to thwart the disease. According to Harvard researcher Ramzi Amri, his choice of alternative treatment "led to an unnecessarily early death".[114] Cancer researcher and alternative medicine critic David Gorski disagreed with Amri's assessment, saying, "My best guess was that Jobs probably only modestly decreased his chances of survival, if that."[118] Barrie R. Cassileth, the chief of Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center's integrative medicine department,[119] said, "Jobs's faith in alternative medicine likely cost him his life.... He had the only kind of pancreatic cancer that is treatable and curable.... He essentially committed suicide."[120] According to Jobs's biographer, Walter Isaacson, "for nine months he refused to undergo surgery for his pancreatic cancer – a decision he later regretted as his health declined".[121] "Instead, he tried a vegan diet, acupuncture, herbal remedies, and other treatments he found online, and even consulted a psychic. He was also influenced by a doctor who ran a clinic that advised juice fasts, bowel cleansings and other unproven approaches, before finally having surgery in July 2004."[122] He eventually underwent a pancreaticoduodenectomy (or "Whipple procedure") in July 2004, that appeared to remove the tumor successfully



I wish you and your family the best and will pray for all of you.


----------



## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> MisfitMorgan...where to start...
> 
> Been thru this with my identical twin brother now since July 2015. It ain't fun.
> 2 different brain surgeries, 3 rounds of chemo--one of them on a port and pump for weeks, 3 rounds of radiation and currently taking rad every day for 13 straight days for yet another 2 tumors in his cerebellum. He has a good surgeon and he said "He handles surgery well and I can go in and get those 2 as well, but let's try radiation first and if that works, we'll follow up with chemo. If the radiation doesn't do the trick, I'll go in there and cut them out, then follow with chemo".
> 
> One of his chemos for esophagus was $14,000 per treatment, but the drug company picked the tab up on it.  It worked.
> 
> He never missed work except for when he was recovering from brain surgery. Lost his hair, hated to eat, pooped every 15 minutes and was weak from the chemo, now has spots on left lung and one in his spleen but he's still in the fight. I know he's tired of being sick and has told me so, and I'm not sure he will go the chemo route again. I've urged him each time to do what the docs want, but this time, I'm good with whatever he decides for quality of life no matter how much it is going to hurt me.
> 
> He and I are close, and I cannot adequately express how close. We know each other better and longer than anyone we have known, plus the 9 months in womb--identical means we were split from the same zygote. Worked together for decades, in Vietnam together, even shared a GF when we were young--she couldn't tell us apart) Same personalities, same physical appearance, same likes and dislikes. When he had his last physical episode with latest brain tumor, (they thought it was a stroke) I knew something had happened even before I got the call (He's in Arkansas). We just know. He and I have burned up US 59 going back and forth checking on each other for nearly 2 years now, driving straight thru the night each time for 8 hrs. (I have heart issues)
> 
> I am not much on alternative medicine at all. I always think of Steve Jobs(Apple) and one of the last interviews Steve Jobs gave, he expressed regret for seeking alternative care for his pancreatic cancer instead of the more accepted treatments.
> 
> 
> 
> I wish you and your family the best and will pray for all of you.



Thank you so much @greybeard. I lost my brother in January so i know a bit of how you would feel to lose your brother, though mine isnt my twin. We shared a couple girl friends.....i know  So far losing him was thee most painful thing in my life and i can't imagine losing my mother so soon after him, it makes me just wanna give up on life but i'm to stubborn to do that. So for now i will go with mom to all of her appointments that she wants me at and go with her for her chemo and anything else she needs, what happens will happen and there isnt much else i can do. I find i am focusing a lot on getting things done around the farm that i was putting off, focusing on finding a new farm and saving money for the down payment. Hopefully everything goes well but so far in 2017 a lot has gone wrong.


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## Latestarter




----------



## Hens and Roos

continued prayers for you and your family


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> She has been talking to a lot breast cancer survivors, the cancer center here put her in touch with a few that have recently gone through treatment. They also have it arranged to have two people who just finished treatment in the past month to talk to my mom, one that had a really good chemo experience and one that had a really bad one but survived....so she can see both sides.


Love that cancer center. Stupid to sugar coat and only bring in "IT WENT GREAT!!" people. Reality is what it is and I'd rather have all the info so I'm somewhat prepared wherever I land in that spectrum.


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## greybeard

My


misfitmorgan said:


> She is also worried she wont be able to work while on chemo...again the side effects for the other two drugs are the same as chemo.


Depends on what kind of work I suppose. My brother never missed work on chemo or radiation, tho there were days he just went in and didn't really do much. He's a working supervisor for a school district's transportation dept, meaning he spends about 1/2 his day as a mechanic and the other half shuffling paper. He also drove a school bus every morning and every afternoon. 

He did have to be careful when under a bus that he didn't tear his pump line out of the port but I guess he knew what he was doing. 
One thing his oncologist told him and I've heard it from others. "Keep your weight up!"
They don't want them losing a lot of weight with cancer.


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## CntryBoy777

You certainly are in our Prayers @greybeard and your Brother too!!


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## norseofcourse

Prayers for your mom, you and your family.  I'm glad she's talking to other people and considering some treatment.  Having a positive attitude about it makes a big difference.  May you all have the strength you need to get through this.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you everyone for your prayers and support. 



greybeard said:


> My
> 
> Depends on what kind of work I suppose. My brother never missed work on chemo or radiation, tho there were days he just went in and didn't really do much. He's a working supervisor for a school district's transportation dept, meaning he spends about 1/2 his day as a mechanic and the other half shuffling paper. He also drove a school bus every morning and every afternoon.
> 
> He did have to be careful when under a bus that he didn't tear his pump line out of the port but I guess he knew what he was doing.
> One thing his oncologist told him and I've heard it from others. "Keep your weight up!"
> They don't want them losing a lot of weight with cancer.



She is just really worried, you know. I'm sure she will be alright at work on her off weeks, her chemo schedule will be i treatment every 3 weeks for 6 treatments so it is no where near as intense as others i have heard.

We got our new hereford piggies home! Apprently this breeder gives the entire litter the same girl or boy name lol. The Gilts are Ms Spritz 1-2 and 1-3 (from a litter of 6, sows first farrow) and the boar is named backfire 3-3 (from a litter of 8, 3rd farrow). Not huge litters but these pigs will be show quality and registered so you dont need huge litters because they are sold at a higher price point. 

Also @Baymule i completely forgot your pictures....i will try to get some after the monsoon subsides and we can possibly clean our barn.

On that note...our barn has not been cleaned since the end of january....it's soooooo bad. We have not been able to get any equipment moving any distance because the muck is to deep, even the tractor won't go thru it. We tried to wheelbarrow the barn clean but even then we could only do it on days when the ground was frozen which wasnt many and when we did get a big storm dump of snow....the ground underneath wasnt frozen.  So far the ground hasnt been dry enough yet to use any heavy equipment...loading out Al the pig made literally foot deep trenches in our driveway and that was a light trailer. Saturday night it was finally dry enough we could back our truck up to the barn to unload the herefords, plan was to clean the barn sunday...you know what happened there.

The new shears arrived. Waiting on the rest of my goodies to get here.


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## CntryBoy777

....and we all wonder "Why" we get so far Behind on that "To Do" list, as it continues to Grow and we get Farther behind. I've been so far behind for so long now, I just keep Waving at it as it passes by....Again and Again....


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## Baymule

SO TRUE!!



Ya'll make me glad that I have this sand and not real dirt. I might gripe about the sand, but i'd gripe more about the mud!


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> ....and we all wonder "Why" we get so far Behind on that "To Do" list, as it continues to Grow and we get Farther behind. I've been so far behind for so long now, I just keep Waving at it as it passes by....Again and Again....



 i don't wonder why i know why.....clearly my body has different interests then my brain...such as sleep, rest, food, etc.



Baymule said:


> SO TRUE!!
> 
> 
> 
> Ya'll make me glad that I have this sand and not real dirt. I might gripe about the sand, but i'd gripe more about the mud!



The place we lived before this was sand and i hated it!!! Honestly i think i will take my mud still, i cant stand sand everywhere and it seemed to get everywhere. At least with mud it is generally for a limited amount of time each year.


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## misfitmorgan

Forgot to update.

We went last night and picked up our 4 new ewe lambs....they were not pleased but i'm sure they will settle in. They ended up being bigger then i had planned on so had a snug ride home. We will go in approx 1 month to pick up our new ram lamb, the current owner wants to make sure he is going to grow and fill out well because we are paying a fairly high price for him.

The suffolk ram lamb from our sheep is doing well, hopefully he will go to him new home soon. The little white ram lamb is also doing great and getting friendly.


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## samssimonsays

Congrats on the new additions!


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## misfitmorgan

samssimonsays said:


> Congrats on the new additions!


Thank you!

Also @Baymule its not my piglets but i found pics of part of the pedigree. The first pic is the sire of my piggies and the second pic is the sire's sire.



 


 

I will add more pics as i find them. That second boar is name Jesse and he is from an AI with shaffer's gold rush(Hickory). On the dam's side they AI'ed with a pig named frostbite which was Grand Champion Hereford Boar at the 2011 Indiana State Fair. The pedigree goes back farther but i can't remember the other name atm lol.

All the pigs mentioned came from/were bred by Magie Wonder Acres Hereford Hogs in Greenville, Ohio.


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## samssimonsays

those pigs are gorgeous!!!


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## CntryBoy777

Wow!!...those are some Sizeable boys there....especially those........ummm....Oysters!....


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## frustratedearthmother

Holy Guacamole!


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## Baymule

I showed my husband your piggies the other night and he thought they were beautiful, he had never seen a Hereford hog and he was smitten! I just showed him the pictures of your piggies sire and grand sire and he was impressed! He goes along with me keeping feeder pigs because he likes the end result. He's not "in love" with pigs, but he said yours are beautiful! He loves their color!


----------



## misfitmorgan

samssimonsays said:


> those pigs are gorgeous!!!



I quite agree!



CntryBoy777 said:


> Wow!!...those are some Sizeable boys there....especially those........ummm....Oysters!....



 I know, the first time i saw an intacted boar in person i was like "holy "crow" those are some giant "squirrel bait"!!" I'm sure you can figure out the actual words i used 



Baymule said:


> I showed my husband your piggies the other night and he thought they were beautiful, he had never seen a Hereford hog and he was smitten! I just showed him the pictures of your piggies sire and grand sire and he was impressed! He goes along with me keeping feeder pigs because he likes the end result. He's not "in love" with pigs, but he said yours are beautiful! He loves their color!



I completely understand, herefords are what made me fall in love with pigs. That bright white and dark red is just so smart looking. An added bonus is herefords don't get mean with age like a berkshire/a few others will, it is dependent on each boars personality and the caretaker but in general hereford boars stay mild mannered. Ironically the boars so far always nicer and easier to "tame" then gilts in general.

I have been spending a few minutes every night making sure the new/young pigs get handled, i normally do it with anything young we have be it lambs, pigs or poultry. The little white ram is almost to the point of  letting me walk right up to him and pet him, he is teetering right on the unsure line atm so a few more days and he should be my buddy. The black ram lamb is more hesitate still but he is ok being handled and petted. The new lambs are in quarantine and not sure about us humans going in their pen yet. I believe i might start taking treats out with me for the young critters....only problem is the adults always smell it too and mob me.

Maybe you guys will end up with a breeder....of the hereford nature  Just watch out pig math works the same as all the rest.

Atm our barn has 9 gilt 1 sow 2 barrow and 2 boar, if all the big girls took their breeding we will have piglets the first week of july(alternate dates would be mid-june or late july), and we will be expecting between 32-42 piglets...they should be ready for sale the end of august or as Christmas pork in December. If Eva didnt take she will be processed or sold, DH tried to be nice to me and break our rule of 2 strikes so he told me we could give Eva one more shot if she didnt take...i told him no she can go if she didnt take, it was ok. 
The younger(200+lbs) set of gilts we got(leverne and shirly) should be plenty ready for our 4-h breeding in the late fall, the middly young gilt(pink pig) should also be ready as should my two hereford gilts and the big girls will be ready for their next breeding....so potential spring piglets would be 72-88 piglets. We will offer registered hereford piglets and crossbred piglets depending on desired price level of the 4-h kid.

We should also have 5 does breeding for this spring, so 5-10 kids off of our new polled buck Tyrion.

For sheep we should have 4-7 lambs assuming the new girls we just got are not breed ready yet which even if they are i might wait. Downside with suffolk and hamp is they are seasonal breeders. These girls were born in January so this breeding season they will only be at best 11 months old and 16 months old when they lamb. The lamb girls we got last year around this same time were late February lambs(9 months at breeding season) and they did not breed.

The search for a female llama is still going....no luck yet unless i want to pay $1,000 for one.


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## misfitmorgan

As if i wasnt long winded enough i forgot!!

Last night we got rock solid evidence our male llama is a great guard llama. He chased a pack of coyotes off of our property and kept watch all night until this morning when DH left the house for work and day break came. The coyotes were between our house and the barn, a whole pack of them.

DH texted me to tell me to beware when i went outside because pilgrim had run up all in a huff until he realized it was DH.


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## Baymule

We won't be keeping breeder hogs, we're going to stick to feeder pigs. Once in a great while I see Herefords on Craigslist, but the prices for feeder pigs are ridiculous.

A pack of coyotes between the house and barn? YIKES! We have 2 Great Pyrenees and they bark a warning at night. There are coyotes all around us, but they have not jumped our fences.


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## goatgurl

love Hereford hogs.  if I could pick one just because I think they are pretty it would be a Hereford.  congrats. 
good for your llama,  the coyotes have been really loud this year around here too.  God bless big barky dogs.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> We won't be keeping breeder hogs, we're going to stick to feeder pigs. Once in a great while I see Herefords on Craigslist, but the prices for feeder pigs are ridiculous.
> 
> A pack of coyotes between the house and barn? YIKES! We have 2 Great Pyrenees and they bark a warning at night. There are coyotes all around us, but they have not jumped our fences.



We paid $500 for our trio that were born mid and late january. So not a bad price for pedigreed and registered show stock. 



goatgurl said:


> love Hereford hogs.  if I could pick one just because I think they are pretty it would be a Hereford.  congrats.
> good for your llama,  the coyotes have been really loud this year around here too.  God bless big barky dogs.



Thank you!

Apparently my dogs are wimps, i had actually let my dog out the doog before i realized there were coyotes out and she heard them and made a full circle back around the porch to the door. This is the 90lb doberdoodle......better yet the doberman had been out before her and apparently just decided to ignore the coyotes.

My head piece and electric fence arrived yesterday. DH is wanting to weld a slant stand now instead of me building it out of wood.....i dunno i think the expanded metal is pretty pricey. I paid $30 for the head piece so it wasnt super expensive but i was trying to make a low cost slant stand for the sheep lol. I also found halters for $3.99 so i ordered a small , medium and large to check sizing. DH also wants me to order canvas coats for the sheep and llama so after we shear them we can put coats on them.....i think i shall pass.


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## misfitmorgan

Just because we like pictures around here....the new halters. They seem like really nice quality for $4 each.

Is it silly that i am paranoid about my animals killing themselves if i leave halters on them? Does anyone leave halters on their goats, sheep, llama?


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## Latestarter

Not halters but yes collars.


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## CntryBoy777

Before we got the goats, we got both....but, have only used the collars. However, after the Boys got tangled in branches, and in each other's developing horns, we just removed the collars off of them. We still have the collar on our doe, because of goat walk and estrus. We even have the brand new bells in the closet too. I think the halter would be nicer for several reasons, but just haven't tried them out on them yet...may tho.


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## goatgurl

because where I live is 'wild' I didn't keep halters on my horses all the years I had them because of getting tangled and injured in a struggle.  for years I kept collars on all my goats but also had one of them get tangled and now they are either collarless or have a breakaway collars on.  I start when they are young teaching them to lead with their head trapped with my hand above my thigh without a collar.  if I really need control then I put a collar on but not all of them and not all the time.
@CntryBoy777 I keep a bell on my lead goat for years but the night that two large dogs broke into my goat pen one night the first goat they killed was the bell goat.  don't know if it was because she made the most noise and was easiest to find or what but I took the bell and collar off her and hung them up to remember her by.  not sure i'll  ever have another one.


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## CntryBoy777

When we first started out @goatgurl we had visions of herding our goats and allowing them to free range some....this is just how we envisioned what we wanted to do. Then, we realized that the neighbors dog was going to be a problem along with the drop-offs and others that are unleashed with their owners while walking or jogging the road. We also had a "Bout" with our doe when she came into cycle....she is a pygmy. They were pasture goats when we got them, so they are a bit skiddish. Especially since we are the only humans they ever see on a regular basis, they "Alert" at branches snapping and falling to the ground, the big farm equipment up and down the road. So, we learned that the "Vision" was a bit unrealistic, but we never had goats before, so we have been learning for a couple of yrs now. I was going to work with the Boys and train them to do somethings, but taking care of things and the work took my attention. Now, at 2 yr olds, they have a personality change and I still have things to do. When we get the fence up, Star will lose the collar too, cause we won't have to catch her and drag her back, like a few times before....that's why she is always on a 20' lead anytime she is out of the pen. Sorry for the "Hijack" MM.


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## Baymule

I don't have halters for my sheep, not a bad idea though. I have horses and never have turned them out with a halter on. I see horses that never have their halter removed and that's just wrong.


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## misfitmorgan

Ive had horses i left halters on sometimes and other times i left halters off of them, one horse wore a halter constantly for the first 3 months i had her but that was only until i got time to train her to come, she was pretty much wild when i got her and the old owners told me dont ever take the halter off because you wont get it back on. The first thing i did was remove the halter intending to train her but didnt have time for a bit so got the halter back on her for those 3 months. She just needed a bit of training and she was fine without a halter. My standardbred wore a rope halter fairly often but it was very lose and he didnt seem to care at all. My pastures have always been free of trees/brush though so there was nothing to get it hooked on.

Atm some of the goats wear collars and some dont, the collars are always loose enough they can slip it off if it gets stuck on anything. For the goats/sheep i was wanting halters for them and for them to wear them 24/7 but only until they get used to them and for ease of me trying to train the herd to halters without a round pen. I also thought of leaving a halter on the llama so i could work with him. I have the nagging fear they will get stuck on something and die though....just was wondering if that was unrealistic or not though lol.

The other problem is i cant really put a collar on the sheep, i mean i could but it would be odd. I could use a neck collar on the llama.



CntryBoy777 said:


> When we first started out @goatgurl we had visions of herding our goats and allowing them to free range some....this is just how we envisioned what we wanted to do. Then, we realized that the neighbors dog was going to be a problem along with the drop-offs and others that are unleashed with their owners while walking or jogging the road. We also had a "Bout" with our doe when she came into cycle....she is a pygmy. They were pasture goats when we got them, so they are a bit skiddish. Especially since we are the only humans they ever see on a regular basis, they "Alert" at branches snapping and falling to the ground, the big farm equipment up and down the road. So, we learned that the "Vision" was a bit unrealistic, but we never had goats before, so we have been learning for a couple of yrs now. I was going to work with the Boys and train them to do somethings, but taking care of things and the work took my attention. Now, at 2 yr olds, they have a personality change and I still have things to do. When we get the fence up, Star will lose the collar too, cause we won't have to catch her and drag her back, like a few times before....that's why she is always on a 20' lead anytime she is out of the pen. Sorry for the "Hijack" MM.



No worries i dont mind at all.


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## misfitmorgan

Mom's appointment with the oncologist got moved to the 17th because they messed up and gave her the contrast for the MRI before they did the bone density scan so so has to wait for the contrast to leave her body before they can do the bone scan.

In other news....I got the milk stand finished and we used it yesterday to trim goat hooves. Saturday we got the electric netting put up...so far so good. We also wired our old car battery to our solar powered fencer because the battery that came with it wouldn't hold a charge anymore. Works beautifully and holds a charge perfectly. So far no loose animals and they mind the fence well. We are going to give te new fence a test run of a month or two and if we have no issues i will be ordering more to expand the pasture with.

All the critters seem to be doing well. The Suffolk ram lamb left for his new home Saturday and the new owners were very pleased with him.


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## Baymule

Keep us updated on your Mom. prayers for you, her and family.

I found Hereford piglets on Craigslist a few nights ago. They were $75 each. But we already have pigs and I am counting down to the day they leave for freezer camp! So next time we are ready for feeder pigs, who knows what I'll find?


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Keep us updated on your Mom. prayers for you, her and family.
> 
> I found Hereford piglets on Craigslist a few nights ago. They were $75 each. But we already have pigs and I am counting down to the day they leave for freezer camp! So next time we are ready for feeder pigs, who knows what I'll find?



Thank you Bay!

Who knows indeed, i didnt exspect to find these ones lol. We ended up paying $500 for all 3 of them but as mentioned they came with pedigrees and registration already done.


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## Baymule

These were just feeder pigs. If I were to raise them, I would want registered stock. But I am happy with a batch of feeder pigs from time to time.


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## misfitmorgan

So..the new pasture we put up on Saturday.....

Looked like this



 

 


Those pictures are outside of the pasture atm but thats how it all looked.

And now it looks like this...in 5 days.


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## misfitmorgan

And here are some pics of the herd


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## CntryBoy777

It sure looks like they are doing a number on that field, in a relatively short period of time. It seems they all get along too. I know ya are glad to see the fields turning green too.


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## lcertuche

Oh, your little piggie is soooo cute!


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## frustratedearthmother

Looks like they're having a really good time!


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## Latestarter

No time to fight and argue when there's all that food just screaming "EAT ME FIRST"!


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> It sure looks like they are doing a number on that field, in a relatively short period of time. It seems they all get along too. I know ya are glad to see the fields turning green too.



Yes on Friday night we moved the fence to section off a new piece of pasture, when that pasture runs out we will be flipping to the other side of their old old pasture and that should give us 3 large pastures and 1 small pasture to rotate thru. We should be having warmer overnights starting this week like in the 60s so the grass should really take off. I do like the green because i like seeing them out on it....as far as feed goes we still have 2,000 square bales lol.



lcertuche said:


> Oh, your little piggie is soooo cute!


Thank you, thats our julianna boar....he is a pet that likes being viewed from afar 

Everyone does get along well for the most part. I was hoping they would eat the thatch down too but no luck lol.

Also on the bright side everyone is starting to get some really good condition on them so i'm super happy about that. I "sheared" Kora on Wednesday...she was very well behaved and looks adorable now but i dont have a pic...yet lol. I left a poodle puffball on the end of her tail, all of her ear fluff and then her beard got trimmed down.


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## misfitmorgan

We got both rams sheared last night.....i only got pictures of one though lol. We planned to shear more today but it has rained all morning so we will have to see how dry the sheep are when we get home.



 

 
DH should have smiled...but he wasnt paying attention to what he was doing....he was looking down playing with his phone until the sheep was like no no i think i'm done now. Only 4 more sheep to shear because the new girls won't need to be done until next spring.


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## greybeard

DH looks like.."Don't you kick me or run off yet".

What kind of grass is that in the pasture you just fenced off?
Looks dried out compared to the bright green in a low spot further down the fence.
Did it grow that tall during the winter and is left over or something that came in this spring?


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## CntryBoy777

That look he has, is as if he expects the ram to act out and is ready for "Action", sitting so close to a ram. They look really nice....


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## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> DH looks like.."Don't you kick me or run off yet".
> 
> What kind of grass is that in the pasture you just fenced off?
> Looks dried out compared to the bright green in a low spot further down the fence.
> Did it grow that tall during the winter and is left over or something that came in this spring?



I so wish i lived in the south. Grass does not grow here in winter at all....it dies.

There are 2 or 3 types of grass in that pasture. The most common and majority of that pasture grass is a rough bluegrass(tall fescue), perennial ryegrass and orchard grass in the mix too. What your seeing in that picture is a field tile, it runs thru that part of the property and acts sort of like a creek for most of the year but a creek that grass always grows in. It does have a different type of "grass" growing there but i am not sure off hand what it is. It appears to be some sort of possibly marsh grass.

The brown grass is what grew that tall after DH brushhogged it early last summer, then it died in winter of course. DH has plans on brushhogging the pasture again if it becomes a problem but typically the livestock will eat the dried along with the green. It's actually great for a new pasture when they have not been on lush green...they get some dry in each bite.

The new section has hardly no thatch in it and the section after their current one should have zero thatch because it was tilled last year.



CntryBoy777 said:


> That look he has, is as if he expects the ram to act out and is ready for "Action", sitting so close to a ram. They look really nice....



He had just corrected the ram  That there is our dominant ram so he is a little more stubborn then our other ram and he was getting a halter lesson as well so he was not pleased.

Did i mention DH still has the shear the llama???


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## misfitmorgan

Dr appt with my mom yesterday to get her offical test results.
Stage 4 triple positive her2 positive metastatic, it has moved into her lungs as well. Still refusing chemo but open to hormone therapy.


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## farmerjan

Unfortunately, the diagnosis was bad.  Maybe you should try to realize that your mom doesn't want her quality of life to be lousy with treatments that she doesn't want, and doesn't believe will help her.  Half the treatment is BELIEVING it will work.  I am really sorry for you, and for her.  You have been through enough but somehow you will manage this.  Enjoy the time she has, try to support whatever she opts to do, and don't make her or yourself crazy wishing her to do what she just doesn't believe in.  Yes there are miracles, and maybe one of the very aggressive treatments might work, but it won't if she doesn't believe with her heart that it will.  
Thoughts and prayers for you all.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Unfortunately, the diagnosis was bad.  Maybe you should try to realize that your mom doesn't want her quality of life to be lousy with treatments that she doesn't want, and doesn't believe will help her.  Half the treatment is BELIEVING it will work.  I am really sorry for you, and for her.  You have been through enough but somehow you will manage this.  Enjoy the time she has, try to support whatever she opts to do, and don't make her or yourself crazy wishing her to do what she just doesn't believe in.  Yes there are miracles, and maybe one of the very aggressive treatments might work, but it won't if she doesn't believe with her heart that it will.
> Thoughts and prayers for you all.



I do realize exactly why she is doing what is is doing and it has nothing to do with quality of life.
She doesnt not believe chemo will work....she just believes it is a last resort. Not everyone's quality of life on chemo is lousy, we met several people who did fine and just felt like they had the flu...of course we met others who did have a bad time. It's per person and situation as with anything. I'm not over here telling my mother she has to do chemo, i told her i would like if she did but she knows i'm not going to hate her for not doing it and i'm ok if she doesnt. I just hope she makes it more then a year so she can be at my wedding but if she doesnt she can be there in spirit like my brother and step- mother.


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## CntryBoy777

Just remember that we are here for You....and some of us have been thru this very thing before. Not to lessen the recent periods that ya have experienced too, but it does help to have others to lean on during these times. I, for one, will be here if/when ya need someone to talk to and feel free to PM me anytime.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Just remember that we are here for You....and some of us have been thru this very thing before. Not to lessen the recent periods that ya have experienced too, but it does help to have others to lean on during these times. I, for one, will be here if/when ya need someone to talk to and feel free to PM me anytime.



Thank much @CntryBoy777


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## norseofcourse

that's a tough situation.  I know you will support your mom no matter what.  Prayers that she still has a good quality of life for as long as possible.


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## Latestarter

Really sorry to hear that news... While cancer used to be a death sentence, and they have found many types that can be stopped, it's still a major killer. Have they given a time estimate for your mom? When my dad went to stage 4 (after 3 separate treatments of chemo over about an 18 month period) he decided not to pursue chemo a 4th time and was gone within 3 months. The chemo would not have helped enough to offset the cost financially and physically. It might have given him another month, and he would have been weak and quality of life would have been nil.

Maybe you can move the wedding up a year? If you really want your mom there, it might be the only option. I hope you both can make the best of the time she has left.


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## Hens and Roos




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## babsbag




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## lcertuche

So sorry to hear about your mama. It's hard for the family, sometimes harder than the person who is sick.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you everyone  

So today i signed an offer on a place. It is not the place i was drooling over as it is already pending sale currently and not accepting offers. My realtor says the lender who has the client stated it was a very strong offer and they do not foresee any problems.

So on to the next place.... The location isnt idea, it is however closer to my moms house. Atm where we live is 12 miles which is 15 mins to work and 1hr which is 46miles to my mothers....the place we made the offer on is 33miles which is 40 mins from moms and work for me is 23 miles which is 28mins. The difference isnt huge but at least it is closer to my mom's if anything. On the flip side DH is 4.5miles from work instead of 9 miles However the best part is we will only be 25 miles from meiers, walmart, and home depot...and only 23miles to TSC too so maybe i can convince DH shopping isnt so bad 

The house is a 2 bedroom 1 bath with a full basement, 1 car detached garage, two out buildings and a medium size wooden barn(maybe 40ft x 50ft)...it also had all new windows put in 2yrs ago a new roof in 2011 and has central air and natural gas!! The down side is it is only 10acres and it is on a small highway...upside of the small highway is easy marketing. The house is a foreclosure owned by Freddie Mac but the lady who lived there was a really nice lady and left the house in perfect shape and really clean. My realtor actually sold the place to the couple, ironically. Sadly the lady's husband died a couple years ago and she couldn't maintain the payments, she voluntarily gave the home back to Freddie Mac for foreclosure so Freddie mac is only seeking the amount owed on the place for the asking price which is almost half of the sale price when the couple bought it 9yrs ago.

The place was listed on the Wednesday by the time my realtor got a hold of the sellers realtor(friday) the place already had an offer she was going to submit. The seller's realtor is a pretty nice lady and to give us a shot she held that first offer until today so we could have time to get pre-approved and submit our offer too. I guess Freedie Mac only typically waits 24-48hrs before accepting an offer if it is the only one on the table but the listing being so new i dont think they would take a penny under asking price.

We offered just over asking price and are hoping the other people offered under the asking price. My realtor said what is most likely to happen is one of two things they will either accept the highest initial offer(less likely) or they will reject both offers and tell us and the other party to submit our best offer and then take the highest of that offer. I'm fine with either one....as long as mine is the higher one 

So anyhow waiting to see if we get the place or not. Poor DH he only slept for a hour and a half last night because he was so wound up about the place. Did i mention the landlords asked me when i gave them rent on the 15th...if we had put an offer in any place else 

If we do get the place we plan on re-doing the inside to upgrade it all like atm it has wood paneling i know some people like it but i hate it. The payments would be cheap enough to re-do the inside and built a small pole barn then hold onto the place for 2-5yrs and sell it for 2-3times what we got it for which would give us more then enough for a down payment on a large parcel of land that we could make home for many years.

Nothing much else to report atm.


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## Latestarter

Sure hope everything works out for you. You really deserve a break and turn of good luck.


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## misfitmorgan

me too


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## Hens and Roos

Good luck, hope it goes through for you


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## Bruce

Really sorry to hear your Mom's results @misfitmorgan  Definitely a hard decision unless the docs can give her a really good likelihood that treatment will either cure it or give her many more years of good health. 



misfitmorgan said:


> I just hope she makes it more then a year so she can be at my wedding





Latestarter said:


> Maybe you can move the wedding up a year? If you really want your mom there, it might be the only option.



Dang! @Latestarter beat me to it again.


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## misfitmorgan

We thought about moving the wedding up, we shall see..for now we are hoping to get this house. Getting a place would be so great for our nerves, having to worry about when/if we are going to get kicked off this place is wearing us down. It is also inhibiting things we need to get done because we dont want to make any more improvement here if we are just going to move.


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## Bruce

Yep, getting the new house will run your stress level down to "chill" compared to what you have to deal with now. Won't the owners of the current place have fun trying to find renters half as good as you two!


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## CntryBoy777

It may not be the amount of land ya wish to start with, but ya never know in a few yrs the land around that 10 may come up for sale....and ya can just expand out with it. It sounds to me like a really good opportunity, it is always nice to leave the riff-raff behind and be able to Enjoy life....instead of dreading it.


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## Baymule

I hope you win the bid. We bid up on our place and won the bid because everybody else bid down or bid the asking price. Hope you get the house!

On your Mom, I really don't know what to say. I am truly sorry that your Mom refuses treatment, but at the same time, I can't really blame her. She really is between a rock and a hard place. That also puts you between a rock and a hard place. Big hugs. We are here for you if you need to vent, scream, cry or just hang out.


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## Mike CHS

I have no advice for you about your mom but I know how you feel.  I was lucky enough to have a job that let me work long hours but short weeks so I could help my mom run her business and enjoy her last three years as much as possible.  They originally said terminal with 4 months so 3 years was a blessing.  She was smiling the day she passed and she often said she had no regrets and was proud that her son didn't try to talk her out of the choices she made.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Yep, getting the new house will run your stress level down to "chill" compared to what you have to deal with now. Won't the owners of the current place have fun trying to find renters half as good as you two!



Exactly!!



CntryBoy777 said:


> It may not be the amount of land ya wish to start with, but ya never know in a few yrs the land around that 10 may come up for sale....and ya can just expand out with it. It sounds to me like a really good opportunity, it is always nice to leave the riff-raff behind and be able to Enjoy life....instead of dreading it.



Even if we could buy land to add to it, we would not want to stay there as "our" farm. DH job is temporary, my job is permanent until/if the farm ever supports us. So it doesn't make sense to settle for good farther away from my job.



Baymule said:


> I hope you win the bid. We bid up on our place and won the bid because everybody else bid down or bid the asking price. Hope you get the house!
> 
> On your Mom, I really don't know what to say. I am truly sorry that your Mom refuses treatment, but at the same time, I can't really blame her. She really is between a rock and a hard place. That also puts you between a rock and a hard place. Big hugs. We are here for you if you need to vent, scream, cry or just hang out.



That was out thinking to Bay. thanks Bay hugss.



Mike CHS said:


> I have no advice for you about your mom but I know how you feel.  I was lucky enough to have a job that let me work long hours but short weeks so I could help my mom run her business and enjoy her last three years as much as possible.  They originally said terminal with 4 months so 3 years was a blessing.  She was smiling the day she passed and she often said she had no regrets and was proud that her son didn't try to talk her out of the choices she made.



This is a fast spreading cancer in less then a year and a half it went from cancer cells to a very large tumor and into her lungs....so i dunno. Stressful but atm i am just trying not to think about it as it will be another 1.5months before any doctor visits.

So yesterday i was in the middle of responding on my thread and updating about the house when the realtor called. He said Freddie rejected all 3 offers and asked for "biggest and best" new offers due by 1pm today. So i up'ed our offer by a little over 11% of the asking price and i hope that is enough. So now waiting to see if we get it or not. From what the seller's agent alluded to(supposedly on accident) was that of the original 3 offers ours was the highest. But our offer was no so high as to make them pick us.
I am honestly really hoping that the only original offer people dont make another offer and the late comer offer people only offer asking price. It makes me feel like an evil person to be wishing that but dang it we need this place.
The next comparable place which would possible work with many years of work they are asking 73k for and it is 12acres. The house is 600sqft bigger but the down side is there is no barn. The almost impossible side is there is no pasture, the place was clear cut like 2-3yrs ago and they left all the stumps/branches/sticks lay where they fell and there are now 5-6ft tall thorny junk bushes covering approx 9 acres of the 12 acre parcel and the house, garden, orchard, and other buildings as well as pond take up the other 3 acres....so essentially we would have no pasture and need to clear any land we wanted to make pasture before seeding it with a pasture mix.


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## Hens and Roos




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## Latestarter

X2


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## CntryBoy777

I think ya will get it....


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## misfitmorgan

Also forgot to mention we got 3 more sheep sheared and and and....the Llama!! We have one sheep left to do and then we will be done shearing for this year.

Here is a pic of DH running the shears. That particular sheep was the hardest sheep to shear, she has some insanely thick fleece to where the shears didnt even want to go thru her wool. We are gonna stick the 13 tooth comb on and knock the wool down and then clean up with the finer comb if needed when we do her sister...which is why she wants sheared yet. Hopefully Saturday i can get some nice pics of the freshly shaved herd.




BTW never try to shear on one of these kinds of boards......DH found that the sheep slide all over the place.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> I think ya will get it....


I wish you lived closer @CntryBoy777 we could give you our truck. Its needs the tranny fixed but it has 3/4 ton springs in it. We had it for a farm truck before we bought the f250.

I need to catch up on your thread


----------



## CntryBoy777

I wish ya did too!!....I'm sure we could work out a mutually satisfying Deal....


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## Latestarter

Sorry, had to sit here and laugh about shearing a sheep that's sliding around the board on its butt.  I'm sure coupled with the thick fleece it wasn't fun or funny for DH...


----------



## Baymule

I hope you win the bid on the house and land. Take a bit of advice and do NOT breathe a word to your idiot landlord. (I dunno know the origin of the word landlord, but in this case I think the word denotes a being of higher intelligence than the moron you deal with) They have done absolutely nothing to warrant not even the least bit of notice. Get the new place ready and move. Pack up everything you can without drawing notice and move it. Then call in your friends and do a one day marathon. Maybe even start at 2 or 3 in the morning and try to get everything gone before they come sniffing around. Grab EVERYTHING and get the hell out. These weirdos are so hateful that they could come in and start grabbing your stuff while you were gone. Lie to them if necessary, be very vague, assure them that you are not moving, whatever it takes to keep them appeased.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Sorry, had to sit here and laugh about shearing a sheep that's sliding around the board on its butt.  I'm sure coupled with the thick fleece it wasn't fun or funny for DH...



I was laughing, DH was as mentioned...less then thrilled. However he is the one who grabbed THAT board.



Baymule said:


> I hope you win the bid on the house and land. Take a bit of advice and do NOT breathe a word to your idiot landlord. (I dunno know the origin of the word landlord, but in this case I think the word denotes a being of higher intelligence than the moron you deal with) They have done absolutely nothing to warrant not even the least bit of notice. Get the new place ready and move. Pack up everything you can without drawing notice and move it. Then call in your friends and do a one day marathon. Maybe even start at 2 or 3 in the morning and try to get everything gone before they come sniffing around. Grab EVERYTHING and get the hell out. These weirdos are so hateful that they could come in and start grabbing your stuff while you were gone. Lie to them if necessary, be very vague, assure them that you are not moving, whatever it takes to keep them appeased.



I was torn between giving them notice or not. If we do win the bid we will still have to wait until july 10th before closing. The original close date was june 29th but when we made the new offer our realtor moved out the date. Closing July 10th means we will have to pay one more full month of rent  and have 5 days to move before rent is due again. I spent all weekend in the house getting everything cleaned and organized to speed alone moving, if we get this place.

Hope everyone had a good memorial weekend!


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## Bruce

Good plan, get as much organized and ready to go as you can. Things you won't need until winter can be packed up. That way whatever you decide you don't want to keep can be given away or sent to the dump early. I know it sounds like counting your chickens .... but if for some reason you don't get this one, you will be even more ready for the next one. Good luck. 

Unless you have a notification clause in a lease at the current place, I wouldn't give notice. As others said, nothing seems beneath those people, don't give them an opportunity to take anything from you. Once you've moved, send the "rent envelope" with a note saying you have moved out. And don't put a return address on it


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## misfitmorgan

So what are normal closing costs?

The loan would be $55,500 if we get the bid. The loan would be an FHA 3.5% down loan and Quicken is telling me i can not finance my closing costs. Down payment is $1,942.50...Quicken wants almost $6,000 in closing costs, this doesn't seem like a normal amount. Everything i read online says I can finance my closing costs with FHA as long as i pay in full the 3.5% DP out of my own savings which I have no problem doing.

I am currently also talking with a local bank about just doing a conventional loan with 5%-10% if they will finance closing costs for me. Which would be down payment of $2,775-5,550DP so still less then quicken and I would have lower monthly payments. I understand that the loan itself would be for more but it would drop my APR by almost a full point which makes my loan payments $30-40 less a month.

The list of closing costs is as follows:

Guaranteed Lender Fee
Guaranteed Appraisal Fee
Guaranteed Credit Report Fee
Guaranteed Flood Cert Fee
Guaranteed Tax Service Fee
Title - Endorsement- Survey
Title - Guaranteed Lender's Title Insurance
Title - Guaranteed Settlement Fee
Title - Guaranteed Survey Fee
Guaranteed Recording Fees
Homeowners Insurance Premium
Prepaid Interest

Escrow Account Deposits
Homeowner's Insurance
Property Taxes

Does this seem normal to you all? The closing costs are over 10% of the loan amount not counting down payment.


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## Mike CHS

I don't see anything out of line there.


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## babsbag

I have always financed my closing costs. We have had a conventional, an FHA refi, and a Cal Vet and all of them let us finance closing costs.


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## misfitmorgan

Everything i can find including things on Quicken's own website say closing costs should be 2-6% and when i ask my "lender Agent" why my closing costs are so high he just says dont worry about it or ignores the question. 

Don't worry about it?? oh no why would i, I'm made of money no problem man Even my friend used Quicken loans for her house 3 yrs ago, her house was approx 8k less then my current offer and her closing costs were only $1,800 plus DP of 3.5% on the exact same loan/type so i dont get it.


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## misfitmorgan

The local bank just got back with me.

5% down conventional loan HIGH estimate on closing costs and down payment is $5,900 but  a good chunk of that i can finance into the loan.


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## Bruce

Doesn't sound like Quicken is a great route to take, that "lender agent" sounds like a weasel ... "Don't worry about it"? BS, mortgages are a ton of money and OF COURSE you want to know EXACTLY what is going down. 

Geez they get you coming and going! Don't you just LOVE "prepaid interest"? AKA points. Such a deal: Give me a lower APR but hit me up front for the interest I WOULD have paid over the life of the loan if I had a higher APR.

I don't recall what our closing costs were 6 years ago but we didn't have that many "guaranteed" fees. Nor did we pay "points". And I don't "do" escrow so we didn't need yet MORE money to open a separate account. The CU just pulls the monthly payment from our checking account. Even with my first house in 1984 I didn't do escrow, the bank gave me a payment book and I mailed a check monthly and did the same when it was time to pay property taxes. I guess escrow depends on your lender? See if you can get out of it so you don't have to tie up even more money.


----------



## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> Quicken wants almost $6,000 in closing costs


Is that total closing or just your part?

IIRC, I think my total closing (as seller) was $8k on $120K total selling price.
I could look but don't remember what the buyer's was.


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## babsbag

Bruce said:


> I guess escrow depends on your lender? See if you can get out of it so you don't have to tie up even more money.



Do you mean an impound account?


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## Latestarter

_*Typical*_ closing costs on a residential 1st mortgage purchase loan should be right at about 3% of loan amount. That drops as loan amount goes up, as most closing costs are relatively "fixed" costs that are not loan amount dependent. *The most important aspect of the loan you should be looking at is APR*. That is the effective interest rate you will have had on the loan after it's all paid off down the road. Financing the closing costs costs you money in the long haul as they are being charged interest over the life of the loan. Buying points to buy down the rate is _*rarely*_ if ever beneficial to you the borrower. I paid points when I bought this place as I wouldn't have had enough deductions on my taxes to file itemized deductions. Paying the points saved me several hundred dollars in taxes which more than made up for the cost over time to pay them. But I also put down 25%.

ETA: closing costs will be a much higher percentage of the loan amount if doing a small loan. Once again, many of the costs are fixed costs so on a small loan, they add up to a bigger percentage. A loan less than $100K is considered a small loan. Many lenders won't even do a mortgage loan if less than $50-75K.

If you do conventional financing you can _*generally*_ remove the PMI any time after 2 years if you can prove the value of the property has increased sufficient to make your loan less than 80% of the appraised value. With FHA, you can remove the PMI at 80% after 5 years or Supposedly the lender had to automatically remove it when a 78% LTV (Loan To Value) has been achieved.

If you can get the lender to add in discount points sufficient to cover all the closing costs and remove the closing costs in return, they still make their money and you can write those points off on your taxes (That's a part of what I did here as well).

Just as an aside, if you do a comparative analysis, Quicken loans is one of the MOST expensive lenders to do business with. Your local credit union will be the least expensive option 98% of the time. They are "not for profit" where a bank is "all for profit". Good luck!


----------



## norseofcourse

The people who bought my old house went through Quicken.  They made them jump through a lot of extra hoops and it took weeks beyond what they said the closing date would be initially.  Quicken also took some of their fees directly out of the buyer's bank account which the buyers were not expecting (I'm sure they signed something saying this would happen, without reading it...).


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Doesn't sound like Quicken is a great route to take, that "lender agent" sounds like a weasel ... "Don't worry about it"? BS, mortgages are a ton of money and OF COURSE you want to know EXACTLY what is going down.
> 
> Geez they get you coming and going! Don't you just LOVE "prepaid interest"? AKA points. Such a deal: Give me a lower APR but hit me up front for the interest I WOULD have paid over the life of the loan if I had a higher APR.
> 
> I don't recall what our closing costs were 6 years ago but we didn't have that many "guaranteed" fees. Nor did we pay "points". And I don't "do" escrow so we didn't need yet MORE money to open a separate account. The CU just pulls the monthly payment from our checking account. Even with my first house in 1984 I didn't do escrow, the bank gave me a payment book and I mailed a check monthly and did the same when it was time to pay property taxes. I guess escrow depends on your lender? See if you can get out of it so you don't have to tie up even more money.



Quicken requires Escrow they say for all of their loans.



greybeard said:


> Is that total closing or just your part?
> 
> IIRC, I think my total closing (as seller) was $8k on $120K total selling price.
> I could look but don't remember what the buyer's was.



That's just my cost and doesnt include paying the realtor.



babsbag said:


> Do you mean an impound account?



Escrow account is for property taxes and house insurance, most places require 2-6months of payments for those in an escrow account, Quicken is requiring more then 6 months for mine for some reason.



Latestarter said:


> _*Typical*_ closing costs on a residential 1st mortgage purchase loan should be right at about 3% of loan amount. That drops as loan amount goes up, as most closing costs are relatively "fixed" costs that are not loan amount dependent. *The most important aspect of the loan you should be looking at is APR*. That is the effective interest rate you will have had on the loan after it's all paid off down the road. Financing the closing costs costs you money in the long haul as they are being charged interest over the life of the loan. Buying points to buy down the rate is _*rarely*_ if ever beneficial to you the borrower. I paid points when I bought this place as I wouldn't have had enough deductions on my taxes to file itemized deductions. Paying the points saved me several hundred dollars in taxes which more than made up for the cost over time to pay them. But I also put down 25%.
> 
> ETA: closing costs will be a much higher percentage of the loan amount if doing a small loan. Once again, many of the costs are fixed costs so on a small loan, they add up to a bigger percentage. A loan less than $100K is considered a small loan. Many lenders won't even do a mortgage loan if less than $50-75K.
> 
> If you do conventional financing you can _*generally*_ remove the PMI any time after 2 years if you can prove the value of the property has increased sufficient to make your loan less than 80% of the appraised value. With FHA, you can remove the PMI at 80% after 5 years or Supposedly the lender had to automatically remove it when a 78% LTV (Loan To Value) has been achieved.
> 
> If you can get the lender to add in discount points sufficient to cover all the closing costs and remove the closing costs in return, they still make their money and you can write those points off on your taxes (That's a part of what I did here as well).
> 
> Just as an aside, if you do a comparative analysis, Quicken loans is one of the MOST expensive lenders to do business with. Your local credit union will be the least expensive option 98% of the time. They are "not for profit" where a bank is "all for profit". Good luck!



That's the problem with Quicken, i asked what APR that loan was at and the response i got was "All rates currently on the market"  It's like they are trying to make it as mysterious as possible. It's almost 10% closing costs and i found out yesterday that is not including the points he says i will have to take.



norseofcourse said:


> The people who bought my old house went through Quicken.  They made them jump through a lot of extra hoops and it took weeks beyond what they said the closing date would be initially.  Quicken also took some of their fees directly out of the buyer's bank account which the buyers were not expecting (I'm sure they signed something saying this would happen, without reading it...).



Yeah they are already asking weird.

Ok so the Realtor called me yesterday. We got the house!! but not really. The Seller accepted our offer but we have to do a conventional instead of an FHA, we have to put down $1,000 Ernest money, provide them with a new pre-approval for a conventional loan and if we go over our closing date we have a $50/day fine.

So i called Quicken because the local guy for my bank here was off yesterday and i only wanted a pre-approval. My "lender agent" said he can't give me a conventional mortgage because i cant take enough points on it because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac(who set the rules he says) don't even do Mortgages below 75K  Firstly i know Freddie and Fannie set rules but i am pretty positive they do loans under 75K or a lot of people locally here would be homeless for sure. Anyhow the agent got jerkish cause he realized he wasnt gonna get paid suddenly and told me "Well i dont think your going to be able to get it anyhow because your debt to income is to high" Really??? then why were you all excited before and trying to make sure i got the place? From what i can figure i am good up to 77K with a DTI of 36% on my income only.

Anyhow I will be talking to the local guy here later today. He knows the loan amount, already ran my credit, got my paystubs, and still says he can do 5% down, $5,900(or less) closing costs and finance a large chunk of that. So hopefully he is right. I have to submit a pre-approval ASAP or i lose the house.


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## Bruce

I would blow Quicken right out the window. And I would talk to the superior of the Quicken guy, he is a snake. MAYBE that is SOP for Quicken but maybe not. He should be turned in in case he is a flyer. 

Good luck!


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## misfitmorgan

I talked to his manager, manager said the same things as him. So i think that is just how they do business. He did literally tell me he only gets paid if we get the loan so....i assume they are very driven to try to get people loans. Why they don't allow closing costs in the loan i dont know.


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## Bruce

Then their business model is ****. Double the closing costs of a real bank??? Fuzzy with the customer on the important details? 

I don't think I'll ever need another bank loan but based on your experience, I sure won't even consider Quicken if I do.


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## Latestarter

Providing an APR on a loan is federally mandated. They HAVE to provide/disclose that info. If they don't they are breaking the law. As I said, many lenders will not do loans below 50-75K because they "make no money on them". It's not worth their effort because the cost to service the loan is more than what they make in interest income. I was a mortgage broker and I was a loan officer. I LOVED doing FHA loans as I was virtually guaranteed to make a minimum of 2 points (2% of loan amount) in profit on each loan. FHA pretty much sets their rate to guarantee the lender will make 1 point on the back end, and they make another on the 1% loan origination fee, then whatever other BS fees they can strap on. If the borrower has "questionable" credit or some other "bogus" reason that the lender can use to justify a slightly higher rate, that increases the amount they will make on the back of the loan. A .25-.375 increase in rate equals another point in profit on the back. So by increasing the rate by as little as 1/2 a point could have the lender making 3 points on the back side of that loan.  Now, what would that mean for a paycheck on the typical home loan of $300,000.00?  yep, a $9,000.00 minimum profit.

No lender "gets paid" unless you do the loan with them. They do all their work up front and cash in when you close the loan. Since your loan is so small, they are trying to make/mark up their income through discount points, fees, charges etc so they can make a more decent/adequate (in their eyes) profit on the loan. An FHA lender is NOT going to want to change from that FHA loan to a conventional loan as they will cut their income potential in 1/2 or more.

Quicken advertises their high satisfaction rate and I just sit here in wonder/amazement... how stupid are these people (satisfied borrowers)? They had to have had P.T. Barnum level sales people (loan officers), because they got took! Please do yourself a favor and don't walk, RUN away from those thieves!

Virtually everyone nowadays closes "in escrow". It simply means that there's a third, non-involved party, typically a title company, who handles all facets of the money between buyer/seller/lender. They make sure everything adds up down to the penny and hold all funds until each of the parties signs off that they are satisfied with the numbers breakdown, and signs all contracts/mortgage loan/title/deed/etc. documents. They then, and only then, disburse all the funds that they've been holding (in escrow) to each person as applicable: seller(s), realtor(s), contractor(s), etc.

Lenders might do loans to Fannie/Freddie guidelines for qualification purposes, but for loans under the cut-off, they hold them themselves, in house, and don't sell them to Fannie or Freddie. Many things have changed since I was in the business, but 80-90%+ of all residential loans are now sold on the aftermarket to Fannie/Freddie then routed into the investment marketplace. Pretty much the same as before the last mortgage/real estate crash. Here's the deal from the lender's perspective... If they can't sell the loan (get their money out to lend again), they won't do the loan. Primary reason I recommended you try to find a local lender, preferably a credit union (member owned/non profit). I tried to find if F/F had a min loan amount, but can't find the info, sorry.

If you put $1000.00 down as an earnest money deposit, make CERTAIN that your realtor writes an "out" into the contract so you get that money back if you can't get a loan, or can't get a specified rate or loan terms that you seek. You don't want to lose that money.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure Hope it all works out for ya....I told ya you would get the bid........I certainly don't have anything to add to what has already been said, so really hope ya find the right loan and Fast.....


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Providing an APR on a loan is federally mandated. They HAVE to provide/disclose that info. If they don't they are breaking the law. As I said, many lenders will not do loans below 50-75K because they "make no money on them". It's not worth their effort because the cost to service the loan is more than what they make in interest income. I was a mortgage broker and I was a loan officer. I LOVED doing FHA loans as I was virtually guaranteed to make a minimum of 2 points (2% of loan amount) in profit on each loan. FHA pretty much sets their rate to guarantee the lender will make 1 point on the back end, and they make another on the 1% loan origination fee, then whatever other BS fees they can strap on. If the borrower has "questionable" credit or some other "bogus" reason that the lender can use to justify a slightly higher rate, that increases the amount they will make on the back of the loan. A .25-.375 increase in rate equals another point in profit on the back. So by increasing the rate by as little as 1/2 a point could have the lender making 3 points on the back side of that loan.  Now, what would that mean for a paycheck on the typical home loan of $300,000.00?  yep, a $9,000.00 minimum profit.
> 
> No lender "gets paid" unless you do the loan with them. They do all their work up front and cash in when you close the loan. Since your loan is so small, they are trying to make/mark up their income through discount points, fees, charges etc so they can make a more decent/adequate (in their eyes) profit on the loan. An FHA lender is NOT going to want to change from that FHA loan to a conventional loan as they will cut their income potential in 1/2 or more.
> 
> Quicken advertises their high satisfaction rate and I just sit here in wonder/amazement... how stupid are these people (satisfied borrowers)? They had to have had P.T. Barnum level sales people (loan officers), because they got took! Please do yourself a favor and don't walk, RUN away from those thieves!
> 
> Virtually everyone nowadays closes "in escrow". It simply means that there's a third, non-involved party, typically a title company, who handles all facets of the money between buyer/seller/lender. They make sure everything adds up down to the penny and hold all funds until each of the parties signs off that they are satisfied with the numbers breakdown, and signs all contracts/mortgage loan/title/deed/etc. documents. They then, and only then, disburse all the funds that they've been holding (in escrow) to each person as applicable: seller(s), realtor(s), contractor(s), etc.
> 
> Lenders might do loans to Fannie/Freddie guidelines for qualification purposes, but for loans under the cut-off, they hold them themselves, in house, and don't sell them to Fannie or Freddie. Many things have changed since I was in the business, but 80-90%+ of all residential loans are now sold on the aftermarket to Fannie/Freddie then routed into the investment marketplace. Pretty much the same as before the last mortgage/real estate crash. Here's the deal from the lender's perspective... If they can't sell the loan (get their money out to lend again), they won't do the loan. Primary reason I recommended you try to find a local lender, preferably a credit union (member owned/non profit). I tried to find if F/F had a min loan amount, but can't find the info, sorry.
> 
> If you put $1000.00 down as an earnest money deposit, make CERTAIN that your realtor writes an "out" into the contract so you get that money back if you can't get a loan, or can't get a specified rate or loan terms that you seek. You don't want to lose that money.



Trust me i am running away....here is the problem though. Quicken pulled my credit twice, Chemical Bank pulled my credit twice, so i now have 4 new inquiries....i think my odds of a CU financing me with 4 brand new inquires are pretty slim. So for now i am seeing if Chemical Bank will work out. 

I just got the Pre-qual letter for the conventional loan from chemical bank and sent it to my realtor letting him know if they demand a pre-approval it will take another day or two. I also send over all the documents Chemical Bank Requested w-2s tax return, bank statements....they had my pay stubs already.

My realtor is waiting for the sellers realtor to let us know who to have the check made out to for the Ernest money so we can officially submit the offer acceptance. I believe refund of the Ernest money is already written in but i will check.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Sure Hope it all works out for ya....I told ya you would get the bid........I certainly don't have anything to add to what has already been said, so really hope ya find the right loan and Fast.....



Thanks!!


----------



## babsbag

I had a lot of new inquiries on my credit when we did the refi on our place and as long as they knew that we were mortgage shopping they were ok with that. 

I get it now about the escrow account...we have an impound account too that pays our taxes and insurance every year, that is why I was asking. 

Hope you find a lender, and that is just crazy that banks won't finance below a certain amount, that is just wrong in my mind. I seem to recall that Fannie Mae sets the maximum loan amount but the lender sets the minimum.


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## babsbag

I had a lot of new inquiries on my credit when we did the refi on our place and as long as they knew that we were mortgage shopping they were ok with that. 

I get it now about the escrow account...we have an impound account too that pays our taxes and insurance every year, that is why I was asking. 

Hope you find a lender, and that is just crazy that banks won't finance below a certain amount, that is just wrong in my mind. I seem to recall that Fannie Mae sets the maximum loan amount but the lender sets the minimum.


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## misfitmorgan

I know it is wrong and crazy which is why things like FHA and USDA were set up because a lot of people can't afford to buy houses over 60K. Where we live you can buy a really nice house...with a large lot(no acreage) for 40k easily but how many people have 40k laying around and only want to buy a 40k house...not many. If they were able to save 40k they wanna buy a 180-200k house.

Definitely sucks, i am not sure why the seller wants us to do conventional it makes no sense to me. FHA can close in 30 days i have had 2 banks tell me and i can't think of another reason except......Taxes are issued in July here lol. Far as i know they would be required to pay the taxes and then would be out that money because it isnt in the offer, so we would basically get 6 months of free taxes. Even that seems silly though because the tax bill is only $465 for this bill.


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## Mike CHS

I am no expert but FHA has more inspection requirements than a conventional loan so that may be the reason.  That might also be a reason for you to make sure you have access to an inspection before committing to the loan.


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## misfitmorgan

Yeah i know FHA is harder with inspection but there is nothing wrong with the place that they normally want fixed. We do plan on having an inspection, I've already called the guy to come and do it as soon as we get the acceptance offer. Atm we are waiting on them to tell us who to make the Ernest money check out too. Normally it would go to the sellers realtor but this time it is different....maybe because it is Freddie Mac itself selling, i dunno.


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## Bruce

It is very normal for "prepaid" things like property taxes to be prorated and paid by the buyer. I don't know what they are in your neck of the woods but taxes "just paid" here (if they are paid once a year) would near what you are talking for the low end of your closing costs. No seller is going to eat that just because of timing. 

One thing to look out for - the city isn't going to issue a new tax bill in your name until the next regular cycle. This bit me on my first house. I ASSUMED I would get a bill in my name for the next (2nd of 3 for the fiscal year) payment and ended up being late (yes penalties and interest).


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## misfitmorgan

We only have 2 tax bills here. Summer taxes and winter taxes, summer taxes are always way more. Summer 2016 was $465 Winter 2016 was  $127. So less then $600...for the year. We do not have city taxes here.


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## Baymule

Summer taxes and winter taxes? Huh? I must be stupid, I just don't get it.

We have property taxes based on valuation (always more than what you could actually sell it for) and in some locations, a tax for a state college, in cities there can be a city tax and school tax.


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## babsbag

We have one tax and it is split in two payments, one in April and one in Dec. and they are equal payments. Our taxes are based on the last selling price and they aren't allowed to reappraise until the next sale. There are sometimes special school and fire taxes added in. When the bottom fell out of the market in 2008 they actually lowered taxes on many properties in CA.


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## Baymule

babsbag said:


> We have one tax and it is split in two payments, one in April and one in Dec. and they are equal payments. Our taxes are based on the last selling price and they aren't allowed to reappraise until the next sale. There are sometimes special school and fire taxes added in. When the bottom fell out of the market in 2008 they actually lowered taxes on many properties in CA.



Well, that clears it up!


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## babsbag

Yeah, in CA. Not so sure about Michigan. Different payment amounts seem strange.


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## greybeard

babsbag said:


> We have one tax and it is split in two payments, one in April and one in Dec. and they are equal payments. Our taxes are based on the last selling price and they aren't allowed to reappraise until the next sale.



In Texas, you're just renting the property from the govt. If I live long enough, I could pay more in total property taxes than the  property was worth. It belongs to me only as long as I keep paying the taxes, and it gets re-appraised every time the wind changes directions. Build a new fence, appraisal goes up. Put a roof on a hog pen, taxes go up.

But, they don't appraise dog pens. I could build Trump's Mara-Lago for my dog and as long as dog is the only one using it, my taxes wouldn't increase.


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## Bruce

If you are renting from the government, who gets the money when a place is sold? Sound wierd.

Timing of taxes here are whatever the town decides. Prior house - Aug, Nov, Mar. Equal payments. 

New house (different town obviously) was, until this year, all in Nov. Fiscal year was calendar year. Oddly they borrowed money to pay the bills until the tax money came in. Don't really understand how that makes sense. They have now shifted to fiscal year matching the state's fiscal year (which I THINK starts in June??) and we will have 2 payments - again equal. I don't remember the dates, probably Aug or Sep and Mar. I could look it up but I'm too lazy


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## babsbag

Our improvements get appraised and added to the value but they won't reappraise the entire structure/land, and it is only things you get a permit for that flags the appraisal for the improvement. All property taxes are on the same schedule statewide.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> If you are renting from the government, who gets the money when a place is sold? Sound wierd.


Cap gains tax gets a bunch of it unless you have a plan in place to thwart that.

Here, appraisals are done based on aerial photo reconnaissance.
The cameras and pictures don't care if a permit is required or not.
The most recent surveillance pics are overlaid in transparent digital form on previous pics and a computer notes additions. 
Ag structures usually don't require a permit, unless humans frequently work inside them, especially true for loafing sheds and hay storage barns. Still taxable tho. I built a 22' X 16' loafing shed in 2011. Taxed. I enlarged it in 2014 to 22 X 32. Taxes again went up because of it.
(Any building that is for frequent human use, as part of the permitting process, also gets a 911 address. Each 911 address also gets a mailing address, because..well, I don't know exactly, but all mailing addys here come from the 911 issue office.  I have 4 different 911 addresses on my current property, so I suppose if I wanted to, I could add 3 more mailboxes to the group of boxes up the road.)

There was a large hole behind my cattle pens, created when the contractor need fill to build up my house pad in '09. Approx 20' dia x 10' deep. It was not taxed, but when I filled it in 2014, even tho I just moved dirt from a different area of my property to fill it in, the appraisal district called it an improvement and raised my taxes.

Anything 'portable' is not taxed for property value. Only reason my cattle handling facility isn't appraised is because it is made of corral panels that all chain together and can be moved and reconfigured pretty easy. If I were to put posts down and make it immovable, it would get appraised. If I were to put a roof over it, it would get appraised and issued a 911 address because the appraisal district says it is then used frequently by humans. Yes, my cows can then have their own mailbox.


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## babsbag

Good grief. I guess every state has its pros and cons, I will take the taxes in CA...thanks.


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## greybeard

I pay close to $2K in annual property taxes and it would be higher without the Ag valuation.
No state income tax tho.


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## Bruce

I pay nearly $6K in property taxes and we DO have income taxes.


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## Baymule

@greybeard can you file senior citizen exemption and get your taxes frozen? We built a 36'x36' barn and our taxes didn't go up because they are frozen. We also added a 12'x54' screened in porch, taxes still frozen.


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## greybeard

Have had the '65 exemption' for a couple years now. 
Just got a notice last month that my 2017 property taxes will increase. Not much, but they sure ain't going down.


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## babsbag

We pay about 1% of the appraised value and we also have income and sales tax. A lot of both. I guess "blue" is more expensive than "red".


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## misfitmorgan

Let me try to explain property taxes here in Michigan.

We are taxed based on the Assessed Value of the property which is approximately half of the REAL Value. So if your house is Really worth 200K you get taxed on a 100K house, not sure what the purpose of this is but it is how it is done. However there can be exceptions like the place we are buying is assessed at real value of $78,200 so it should be taxed at a value of $39,100 but because we are in a "poor" county it is only taxed at a value of $35,117. The $39,100 is actually the "state equalized" value and what we will pay some day if our county is ever not poor lol.

You may have your property re-assessed whenever you like but it is always re-assessed upon sale or if you pull a permit for improvements/new buildings.

City taxes do not exist here except for in really big cities like detroit. We do however have county taxes added to our property taxes. County taxes include emergency services, school tax, road tax, millage, etc.

Your tax rate is based on non-homestead, homestead, and Ag.

We have winter taxes(issued Nov) and summer taxes(issued July) these taxes due date is the following month so Dec and Aug.
Summer Taxes $470
Winter Taxes $127

The time they are issued and the different amounts are because Michigan is an Ag state and has long been one so the state did it to help out farmers. Summer taxes are 78.75% of our total property taxes and winter taxes are 21.25% of the total taxes. This makes good sense if you think of it like a farmer who farms table grains, hay, livestock, etc. You get your harvest off the fields and sold in August if your doing beans, hay you already have at least 2 cuts, oats, rye, straw, a few crops of meat birds, etc. You have all those goods you can sell so there is a large income flux. Makes sense to have a large tax due when you have your biggest income of the year.
Alternatively winter taxes are historically a harder more expensive time for farmers. Most livestock is on all hay and grain, electric goes up because of short daylight hours, heat bill goes up, etc. Winter taxes are why a lot farmers raised grains/hay and livestock. Grains/hay took care of Summer taxes and between September to November most livestock will be matured to sell for slaughter...goats, sheep, pigs, late veal or adult cows etc. Winter/Spring is also when you buy your seed for the next season which is not cheap.


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## Mike CHS

That's similar to how it was where I grew up in Missouri (all farm land).

We only pay .25% of appraised value here to the county and that's it.  We did ask for a reappraisal this year to cover ourselves.  We tripled the value of our place since last appraised and they have a tendency to look favorably on people who let them know they have made improvements.  The county man ignored us with a lot of things like when he asked how many baths and we told him two and a half.  He said that house is to small for that so you must just have one.  There was several other things that went the same way like we enclosed two areas around a small building and he called it a garden shed.  We just got our tax bill and it went up $27.


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## babsbag

I want your tax man.


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## misfitmorgan

No kidding! But their really not to bad here either, at least in my county.

Went yesteray and signed the agreement to buy and dropped off the ernest money check.


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## Bruce

Whoo hoo!!!!


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## babsbag




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## misfitmorgan

Been back and forth with the bank man loan should be a 30yr conventional with 5% down APR 4.25(i could have paid a partial point and got it to 4.125% but didnt seem worth it) And closing costs somewhere below $5,900 which includes 6 months home insurance and 1 yrs property taxes.


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## babsbag

Sounds good. Hope it goes all the way through with no hiccups.


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Sounds good. Hope it goes all the way through with no hiccups.



You and me both babs!!!


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## CntryBoy777

I know the "Row" has been long, hard, and a whole lot of Work, but it does seem that ya are about to the "End of the Row" and ready for the "Turn"....sure hope ya find the "Plowing Down" a much easier task, than the trip "Up the Row".....


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## Bruce

When you've got that loan signed, send the details to the Quicken Loan guy and tell him the difference between what they wanted to screw you for and what a real bank did is why they didn't get your business ... and anyone who asks you about a mortgage will get the same information. Sounds like those guys are barely a step up from "Pay Day" loan people.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> When you've got that loan signed, send the details to the Quicken Loan guy and tell him the difference between what they wanted to screw you for and what a real bank did is why they didn't get your business ... and anyone who asks you about a mortgage will get the same information. Sounds like those guys are barely a step up from "Pay Day" loan people.



Oh its gets better bruce they called me back again. They can get me a conventional loan but it would have to be on a 15yr conventional and I would need to have approximately $10,000 for closing costs with.....wait for it a 3% down payment and 5.125% APR. If i was concerned about having 7k for closing costs why would they assume i could come up with another 3k on top of that?


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> I know the "Row" has been long, hard, and a whole lot of Work, but it does seem that ya are about to the "End of the Row" and ready for the "Turn"....sure hope ya find the "Plowing Down" a much easier task, than the trip "Up the Row".....



Should be....should be. Thanks!


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## Baymule

Excited for you! I went through the finance thing 3 years ago when we bought this place. Then we sold our old house and paid off this one. It was such a relief when it was finally ours. I know this is your house and it will go through.


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## misfitmorgan

Thanks @Baymule i hope so.

Last night DH finally got the last sheep sheared. So we are done shearing this year...unless it gets really hot then we might do a long shear because their fleece is growing so fast.


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## Baymule

I am intrigued by wool sheep, but will stick with my hair sheep. If I got wool sheep, I would have to learn to shear them......then wash the wool, card it, process it.....get a spinning wheel and learn to spin....... you see where this is going?? Then I'd have to learn to knit, crochet and make sweaters and other items.... It would never end! LOL LOL


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## Mike CHS

I guess that is Wool math.


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## Bruce

Gives you something to do in your spare time @Baymule


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## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> I guess that is Wool math.







Bruce said:


> Gives you something to do in your spare time @Baymule



Yeah, because I have so much spare time


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I am intrigued by wool sheep, but will stick with my hair sheep. If I got wool sheep, I would have to learn to shear them......then wash the wool, card it, process it.....get a spinning wheel and learn to spin....... you see where this is going?? Then I'd have to learn to knit, crochet and make sweaters and other items.... It would never end! LOL LOL



I know...luckily i am to busy to have time to learn anything farther then how to card and i'm to cheap atm to buy real cards so the wool and llama fleece got tossed out. Might some day get around to learning how to spin but not any time soon i dont think.

Loan officer sent over all my paperwork to e-sign to submit the loan. There is however a mistake on it so i am waiting on him to fix it. He had my car lease with 12 more payments on it but it is actually done being paid in like 5 months. The house payment should be $460 approx a month including taxes and home owners insurance. Then we will refinance in 6-12 months after we get some improvements on the property which should eliminate PMI and give us a lower APR so should drop our payments to around $300/month.


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## Baymule

This is getting exciting!!! When is closing date?


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## Mike CHS

That is awesome news.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> This is getting exciting!!! When is closing date?



Closing is July 18th! We are hoping to get some late/short season veggies into the garden...if not we will have to wait until next year for a garden. We already know it is to late for corn, tomatoes, etc.



Mike CHS said:


> That is awesome news.


Yes it is.


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## CntryBoy777

It sure sounds like things are "Moving" right along for ya....and couldn't be Happier for ya either....


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you.

Seems my lease company are being butts. I have emailed the girl in charge of my lease twice and faxed her requesting proof of my final lease payment and she is ignoring the request so far.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds to me like it's time for a "Face to Face", or ask your closing lawyer to make the contact....they have a way of getting some action....and most will just include it as part of their services for closing, not costing anymore.


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## Baymule

July 18......that gives you almost 2 weeks to pack up and move out before the rent comes due. Move everything inside that you can, under cover of darkness if you have to. Don't let those idiots know you are moving until you are GONE.


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## babsbag

You are going to be gone like the thief in the night and don't look over your shoulder. It is getting close


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## babsbag

Baymule said:


> I am intrigued by wool sheep, but will stick with my hair sheep. If I got wool sheep, I would have to learn to shear them......then wash the wool, card it, process it.....get a spinning wheel and learn to spin....... you see where this is going?? Then I'd have to learn to knit, crochet and make sweaters and other items.... It would never end! LOL LOL



Sounds like the same kind of reasoning I used to build my dairy. I remember saying something like this to DH about 9 years ago..."If I get does I could breed them and milk them and make cheese...sounds like fun. If I don't like it I just won't ever breed them again. "


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## Bruce

But apparently you DO like it!


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Sounds to me like it's time for a "Face to Face", or ask your closing lawyer to make the contact....they have a way of getting some action....and most will just include it as part of their services for closing, not costing anymore.



The office is a little over 3hrs from where i live lol. Also what is a closing lawyer?



Baymule said:


> July 18......that gives you almost 2 weeks to pack up and move out before the rent comes due. Move everything inside that you can, under cover of darkness if you have to. Don't let those idiots know you are moving until you are GONE.



Technically not really, we will actually be over our rent. Our rent is due on the 15th of each month. So we are gonna pack as much as we can here in this next month and the second we close, us and everyone we know will be here to take a load of stuff or help pack the uhaul/trailers. DH is working on temporary quick pens he can retrofit into the new barn in about an hour for the pigs. The goats/sheep and llama have the electric net fence that is easy to put up so that wont be to bad.



babsbag said:


> You are going to be gone like the thief in the night and don't look over your shoulder. It is getting close



Hopefully because i am so not paying them for the 15th to the 18th of July lol.


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## Baymule

Can you move anything before closing?


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## Bruce

That can sometimes be done but is sort of dangerous since there is the rare possibility things fall apart. And often the current residents of the new place are doing their side of packing up, don't need the new people's' stuff mucking up their work. 

Might be worth renting a storage unit near the new place and moving some stuff there first though. Of course the more "small trips out" the more likely it will be noticed if the owners of the current place live close enough to be aware of the goings on.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Can you move anything before closing?



I dunno if we would be allowed to Bay, i am currently hoping we can close earlier then the 18th. As soon as my bank is ready to fund the loan we might be able to arrange closing.



Bruce said:


> That can sometimes be done but is sort of dangerous since there is the rare possibility things fall apart. And often the current residents of the new place are doing their side of packing up, don't need the new people's' stuff mucking up their work.
> 
> Might be worth renting a storage unit near the new place and moving some stuff there first though. Of course the more "small trips out" the more likely it will be noticed if the owners of the current place live close enough to be aware of the goings on.



There are no current owners living in the house. This property is a foreclosure owned by Freddie Mac. Being a foreclosure owned by the government i doubt they will let us start moving early lol. The owners of the place we rent live in a different close by town and are pretty thick in the head so i doubt they would notice.

I have to go pay rent today  I hate going to their house and giving them my money...for doing absolutely nothing. I told them months ago the ceiling is leaking in two places, they said patch it, we did and now it is so bad we had to move our furniture and keep buckets out to catch most of the rain but they over flow onto the floor if it rains hard and we are not home to empty them. So yeah it is basically raining inside the house in 3 different spots every time it rains here for the past several months. I told them when the water was froze for 2 weeks this winter and they said...yeah that sucks thats why we moved...really your the landlord your suppose to fix it!

I will be so happy to move!


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## Bruce

Why can't you mail the rent? Maybe you have to glue it into their hands so they can't claim they didn't get it?


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## misfitmorgan

I could but I always forget and then it is rent day and I have no choice but to deliver it in person.


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## Baymule

A government foreclosure is a big no-no as far as moving in before closing. Make sure you are nice to the idiots when you give them the rent money.


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## misfitmorgan

I am always nice to their face, that is why DH makes me go pay rent cause he knows I cant stand to be rude/mean to people. DH would just tell them exactly what he thinks of them. I assumed since it was gov owned we wouldnt be allowed to move early lol.


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## misfitmorgan

No news on the loan yet....they say no news is good news so lets hope so.

We have been traveling around the state shearing sheep for people...its fun but tiring! This weekend we will be traveling about 3hrs south to shear 4 sheep and then next weekend we will be traveling almost 5hrs south to shear 25 sheep as well as scrapie tag them. Every sheep also gets hooves checked/trimmed after being sheared. DH is liking it but it is killing his bad he says so we are gonna pick him up a back support.

Our first litters of piglets should be arriving in the next 2.5 weeks. We have each bred gilt/sow in her own pen which we will clean and bed a few days before the farrow date as well as put in corner boards and heat lamps. If we do get the house moving is gonna be a little challenging with 3-4 litters of piglets at 11 days old, with their mothers. Sarah should be easy she is pretty laid back, spot and red are very questionable, and i dont think eva took so she is scheduled to go down the road.

Laverne and Shirley might be bred they are in with our young boar atm.


----------



## Hillaire

man, you guys are BUSY... I'm tired thinking about it lol... Moving pigs and piglets would be interesting to say the least... pig boards a must I would assume... crossing fingers for you guys to get the news you're looking for


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## misfitmorgan

Hillaire said:


> man, you guys are BUSY... I'm tired thinking about it lol... Moving pigs and piglets would be interesting to say the least... pig boards a must I would assume... crossing fingers for you guys to get the news you're looking for



We do have downtime just not much of it lol. We do not own pig boards, we just tap their flanks to move them around. That being said....we are generally only moving them within the barn or pasture and their piglets follow along. I'm thinking we will have to haul one mom and one set of piglets at a time which means we will have to make 5-6 trips just for pigs.


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## misfitmorgan

@Bruce 

We have a approx 130 day growing season with the first frost date this year is October 7th Which would give me roughly 75 days and means there are lots of varieties of tomatoes I could plant and still get fruit from. Even if the fruit was still green i can pick it and store them in the house and can them as they ripen, we have done that several times before. I certainly wont be able to plant any heirloom varieties but oh well. 

DH mentioned trying low tunnels this yeah so we might do that.


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## CntryBoy777

There are always farmers mkts ya can get stuff from to can, without having to grow it yourself. Plus, some of your clientel for the shearing may be willing to pay ya in veggies and fruit....


----------



## misfitmorgan

By the time any veg and fruits are ready shearing will be done lol.

The farmers markets locally dont really have much to offer and what they do is pretty pricey like $7/lb tomatoes or $5/garlic head, etc. We were vendors at two local markets but there just isnt interest from the public so those who do go try to pay for their entire trip with 1-2 sales.

We may try going north to the farmers market in alpena and see how it looks there, way bigger city. I also havnt seen anyone selling pork there lol just beef and chicken.


----------



## CntryBoy777

There could be a "Market" to supply....


----------



## misfitmorgan

That is what we are gonna hope. We already have a restaurant waiting on our lamb supply and they might be interested in select pork as well.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have a long enough season but our biggest raised bed is going to be a cattle panel hoop house to extend our season some.  We almost always have a  frost around the middle of October but then warm weather after that for another month.


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## Bruce

If I plant the faster maturing cherry varieties at the beginning of June, we may get some ripe ones by the end of July. By the end of August they aren't ripening a whole lot so other than green tomatoes, there wouldn't be much sense in me planting them mid July.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I think your a bit colder then me @Bruce , I am between a zone 5b and 6a.

The loan officer got a hold of me today. The underwriter is saying i need to pay my lease off before closing or my debt-to-income ratio is to high for the conventional loan. If it was a normal loan and not a lease it would be fine apparently because I am almost done paying it.

So here is the problem. There is a balloon payment on the end of the lease of $1,664.80.
I currently owe $808 in normal payments on the lease which is approximately 2 months of payments.
So thats $2472.80 total
Plus the lease company is going to tack on $700 worth of early termination fees and and other BS.
So the total is going to be around $3,172.80

Down payment and closing costs on the loan are going to be $3,620

By the time closing comes I will only have approx $4,750

So we could quite realistically lose the house over 2 months of lease payments.

I have listed livestock for sale, extra vehicles, and sold one of our young breeders to be butchered. The young breeder is only adding approx $300 but better then nothing and brings the total i will have up to $5,050 of the $6,793 needed.

 man we just can't catch a break this year.


----------



## Bruce

We are usually running 5A these days. Used to be 4A. So yes, you are warmer than we are.

Could you maybe convince the loan officer and underwriter that forcing early termination on the lease (2 lousy months ?????) only makes the situation they are "concerned" about worse?? Sometimes they just look at numbers and if you talk to them they can see beyond the "rules" depending on the situation. I really don't understand why a lease that is almost up is so different from a loan that is almost paid off. Seems like your current lease (from the point of view of cash) would be paid off in 4 months if it were a loan and if that would be OK why is a lease that will be paid off in 2 months be worse?

Stupid question but what will you drive when the lease is done? You either buy it or have to get another vehicle right? Are they possibly ASSUMING that you will have to put out some cash for another vehicle which may or may not be the case? Maybe you already have an extra vehicle to drive that they don't know about.

No friends or relatives that could sneak a couple grand into your mattress? You could sneak an equal amount into their mattress in a couple of months 

This is all very amazing, it isn't like you are trying to borrow half a million dollars.


----------



## misfitmorgan

This is all on a 57k loan....like piddly chump change to them. The property already appraised at around 85k so if we default its not like they are gonna be out, not that we plan too.

I have another vehicle they know i have it listed it on the loan as a liquid asset. I told them i will not be leasing another vehicle. The problem is the ballon payment, thats their worry. Worried I will get behind trying to make the balloon payment to keep the car, I told them I wouldnt but they need assurance you know.

Best part....DH isnt any where on the loan. We make another 25k/year they arn't figuring in plus approx 10k/yr off the farm...so really our debt to income with the new house would only be around 20% can't put DH on though cause his ex-wife messed up his credit and the last card wont fall off for another 2yrs or something.

They said a loan would be fine....no balloon payment..the lease is the issue because of the balloon. Even if i sent the car back i would be charged for early termination and mileage.

My one friend said she would loan me 1k...but i have to wait to see how much the pay off is. I forgot we also have $350 this weekend from shearing so that helps some.


----------



## Baymule

You will do this. Maybe by the skin of your teeth, but you will do this. You have the whole forum rooting for you. 

About those baby pigs.....I need piggie pictures. Lots and lots of squeezy cutie huffy kissy baby piggie pictures. Close up, group pictures, lots and lots of pictures. So when they are born, be right there to take and post pictures. Tell them their Aunt Baymule loves them and thinks they are beautiful.


----------



## Bruce

I was wondering if you had the extra $$ you could put it down on the loan and that would bring the D/E down close enough for them to look the other way. I hate to see you give $700 to the greedy lease company, that isn't even close to reasonable. No way would they be missing anywhere near that in "loan interest" for a lease that is up in 2 months.  

DD1 needed a credit card to travel for ice skating. Given she has no job I needed to be on it as a guarantor. I had to bring in my "not paycheck" (ie retirement check) statement and the 1099 for my investments. With that they only gave her $500. She needed $1K for hotels. Not that she would use the card much, there are only 2 trips a year (she is on the 2nd one now). I called and said I recognize the "not paycheck" is just enough to cover the mortgage (also at the CU, always paid on time) so the debt/income looks bad but look at the 1099. I could cover her monthly VISA bill for years even if she maxed it out monthly. No good, have to get the wife on the card as well. Except the next day the nice girl at the CU called and said the card now has a $1K limit. 

I don't know what got them to change their minds. Maybe they figured I was unlikely to run the investment account down. Maybe because I've had an account at the CU since 1979 including a VISA that has never been anything but paid off monthly. Maybe because my wife is joint on the checking account there. Maybe they looked at the "traffic" through the accounts. All I know is I "pushed" a bit, in a nice way, and things happened. 

That is why I suggested the "personal touch" , sometimes things can happen. Have you mentioned DH's $25K and the ex-wife screwing his credit? I'm sure they know that story all too well. If it is just 1 card, they might be willing to look at his income "off the record" and decide your family is good for the lousy $1,600 balloon.  

GOOD LUCK!!!!


----------



## Bruce

Plus Aunty @Baymule will PAY for pictures. $50 each, $100 if they are especially cute. And she trusts they WILL be especially cute and will prepay for the pictures 

You can pay her for pictures of her cute goats in a few months.


----------



## Baymule

psssttt.......@Bruce I don't have any GOATS!


----------



## babsbag

Is your DH's credit score so bad that it would impact the loan? Ours was pretty bad right after we moved here, more than one late card (long story) so when I applied to get our home refinanced I was a little concerned as there were still lates reported on my acct. They told me that as long as they weren't in the last 2 years that it didn't really matter and that my mediocre credit score was well within limits.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> You will do this. Maybe by the skin of your teeth, but you will do this. You have the whole forum rooting for you.
> 
> About those baby pigs.....I need piggie pictures. Lots and lots of squeezy cutie huffy kissy baby piggie pictures. Close up, group pictures, lots and lots of pictures. So when they are born, be right there to take and post pictures. Tell them their Aunt Baymule loves them and thinks they are beautiful.



I will do my best @Baymule but my picture taking track record is not so good lol. We expect 1-2 to farrow on July 7th the third will either be the same or 1-4 weeks later. The boar had 4 girls and he seems like he picked a favorite and stuck with them for 3-5 days so shall see how farrowing goes. I still need to get you hereford pigs. They are locked in a outdoor stall atm though with some other piggies because we had to put the ones who are suppose to farrow in their own stalls so we could keep track of piggies since it has been raining pretty much non-stop here for weeks now.  So we moved some of the other pigs into a stall DH made on the lean-to end out of the barn outside. The result is pure mood/slop but dry-ish...mud/slop is from all the rain. Getting the barn cleaned is hopeless, every time it looks like it is gonna dry up enough to do it...we get surprise rain. So soggy atm you cant even walk on the ground with slipping and sinking...even after back bladed the driveway so it would drain better.



babsbag said:


> Is your DH's credit score so bad that it would impact the loan? Ours was pretty bad right after we moved here, more than one late card (long story) so when I applied to get our home refinanced I was a little concerned as there were still lates reported on my acct. They told me that as long as they weren't in the last 2 years that it didn't really matter and that my mediocre credit score was well within limits.



It is bad enough to negatively impact the loan. I put 3 of my credit cards with 100% on-time payments on his credit to bring it up from 460. The card from his ex-wife is reporting 26 late payments and killed his credit, every single other thing on his credit is 100% on time paid. Even so his credit score atm is only  high 500s/low 600s they use the median credit score so his would be 597. The late payments are not all more then 2yrs old. She was suppose to be paying the credit card because she ran the debit up on it she agreed..he canceled the card....they separated and she paid the first 5 months, fast forward 3yrs when i check DH credit and go "wtf why are you not paying this credit card" he had no idea he just assumed she had paid the $700 original balance off the credit card cause she kept telling him she had. He got a hold of the bank to ask why no one had contacted him, they said they send several letters, he informed them they were sending them to his ex-wife's house. We got a copy of the bill and have been making the payments since, so he can have more paid-on times. His ex-wife isnt 100% at fault, it is partly his own fault he didnt check the card to make sure she was paying it.

So adding DH isnt a realistic option which is why i didnt already do that from the start, thankfully michigan is not a community property state lol. Just waiting for the finance company to send me the pay off amount, so i can see how much it actually is.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Oh i forgot, two pigs our farming partner as here are getting shot and bled out and then going to the butcher on saturday before we go downstate to shear. DH agreed to shoot, bleed them, and drop them off and we will get a couple pounds of sausage back. DH also spend the past 3 days taking care of someone elses filthy pig barn because they went out of town. He came home with pig scabies...joy. On the bright side though he got all the eggs the chickens laid for his "payment". He got to call the owner of the pigs and let them know that he doesnt know how to count because his pig that was suppose to farrow in mid-july had 15 piglets on day 2. Also told him his pigs had pig scabies...he isnt concerned.

Shirley is going to the butcher...live to be butchered for a family friend that wanted some pork. She is a little more mouthy and less level on the top line them Laverne so we decided to let her go for meat, ironically the berks that DH loves are all way way more mouthy then this girl. With feed bills about to rise a lot and the poopy weather we have the two barrows, the smallest gilt, and eva for sale atm. So if they all get sold that will be 7 less pigs to feed, house and clean up after. Shall see how it goes.

As soon as piglets are weaned the two pigs our friend owns are moving to his house too.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> psssttt.......@Bruce I don't have any GOATS!



OOOPS! Well you must have something cute to take pictures of for @misfitmorgan  Guess I was thinking of @Devonviolet. 

@misfitmorgan Does the bank KNOW about your husband's "predicament"???? Does he have any cards in his name (other than the 3 you added) that show "always paid"? I would bet that if you told them what you told us and if he has been paying "religiously" since he found out the ex did him wrong, they will see that he is not, in fact, a credit risk and it wouldn't take much of his income to put you over the top since all they are getting pissy about is the soon to be gone car lease. 

Something that might also help your credit score is to cancel a couple of cards. They don't like to see a lot of POTENTIAL instant debt even if you never touch it. We primarily use our LL Bean card, they keep raising the credit limit. Went last Sept to nephew's wedding in CA. Airline tickets for 4, hotels, rental car. Not at ALL the usual monthly bill. We paid it, they raised our limit. They just jacked it to $20K  Yes a MONTH. NO WAY we EVER spend close to that. Nor could we pay it so we would NOT do it! We NEVER carry a balance, use the card for convenience only. I think it was $3K when we first got the card maybe 20 years ago. Bought our daughter a graduation present in May (including the part my Dad bought, he paid us back before the bill even came) and drove to WI for her graduation, stuck a bunch of hotel and restaurant charges on the card plus the "usual" monthly charges and paid it off when the bill was due. Now they think we are Daddy Warbucks or something. I think that VERY UNUSUALLY high bill was under $7K so I don't know why they think we need $20K. We don't even go on yearly vacations, those 2 trips were "odd" for our spending habits. If we needed to get a mortgage I would bet our credit score would take a huge hit with that $20K of "credit risk" sitting there.

Man, 3 yrs of monthly interest and penalties on a $700 original balance must be horrendous! I don't suppose he can take the ex to small claims court and force her to pay off the bill?


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## misfitmorgan

No i can not put DH on the loan the bank requires all borrowers to have a min score of 640 for conventional loans. All accounts on his credit are closed except my credit cards. He just has a few old loans he paid off on it.

Canceling credit cards is almost always bad for your credit score. Your FICO score is based 5 categories. 35% is payment history, 30% credit utilization, 15% is length of credit history, 10% is credit mix, and 10% is new credit. 

Payment history is is self explanatory. 

Credit utilization is the ratio of credit used compared to total available credit line, this should be 29% or less preferably. This covers all lines of credit including credit cards, retail cards, auto loans, student loans, mortgage, etc. So say all your credit lines together are 50,000k but you are only using 11,000k(22% of available) of your credit lines FICO sees that as good/ideal._(Excellent is 0-9%, good is 10-29%)_ You are responsible with the amount of credit you could be blowing but your not using.

Also paying a credit card before you get the statement is bad because it will continue to report a $0 balance which is good but your FICO score will stall out because it thinks you just never use the card. You need to get the statement and then wait 2-3 days and pay it off, the 2-3 days is how long after your statement is sent until the credit company reports to the credit reporting agencies. Paying a card in before the due date but after the statement will not charge you interest.

So again take your 50k overall credit line with 11k in debt, now cancel the 20k credit card line, your now using 37% of your available credit line which FICO see's as risky.

Length of credit history is all accounts showing on your credit report. They use the median length. So if account 1 has 3yrs account 2 has 12yrs, account 3 has 6 months, account 4 has 5yrs...credit history would be 61.5 months aka 5yrs 2months. Often a bank will look at your credit and say you have accounts older then 2yrs so its ok, but sometimes nope. FICO uses the median score to determine credit score which is why getting several new lines of credit in a short period of time kills your credit score. So if the credit card your gonna cancel is the 12yr one your new credit history is 34months aka 2yrs 10 months. Which would drop your credit score...conversely though. If the account you wanted to cancel was the 6 month old one it would raise your credit history to 80months aka 6yrs 8months.

You need to keep current debt reporting on your credit. After a certain length of time which varies per item type they fall off your credit(it is not 7yrs for all) and i know many people in their 50-60s atm who have gone to get a loan for something and been told their credit was only in the low 700s, these are people who had scores in the 800s only a few years ago. All of their credit stuff got aged off their reports and as they did their scores dropped because length of credit history, credit lines, on-time payments etc all fell with it.
I experienced the same thing. I had a credit score of 786 which is good for my age, everything fell off my report and i went to get my car lease and i was told me score was 487....thats when i learned exactly how credit works cause that was only 2.5yrs ago. I had to get the lease with insane interest rate and a secured credit card and build back up. It sucks.

The credit risk for lines of credit was the old FICO model/thought process....the new model sees credit lines as good with low usage. Which is why your credit company gave you a 20k line, not to use all 20k but so you had an easier time keeping large occasional usage under 29% of your credit limit. They do try to look out for you a bit even though i know most people see credit card companies as evil.


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## babsbag

Hoping that it all works out for you. CA is a community property state so we share it all. But if I try and call on a card that is not in my name the banks won't talk to me, yet they have no problem coming after me if a payment is late. Go figure.


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## misfitmorgan

Here if your an authorized user they have no problem telling you anything, Utilities you can give permission on the account for another person to discuss it, turn it off and on etc.

I got the pay off amount because of all the fees and junk they are gonna charge me the payoff is $3,827.78


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## Bruce

All too confusing @misfitmorgan !! I guess our score was based on the CCs only since the other house was paid off in 2003 and that loan was "family" not bank (if you are going to pay interest, might as well give it to family right??) so other than CCs the last time I had a "trackable" loan was 1988. 

You have $800 in lease payments to go, $1,665 balloon so they want nearly $1,400 to get out 2 months early? Plus you have a ridiculously high interest rate on the lease because of your "expired credit"? Robbery pure and simple, they have more than made their money off you. I've never leased a car and your example sure doesn't make me think I ever will. I bet there is so much fine print a lawyer couldn't figure out all the ways the leasing company can screw you.

I never pay the CC before I get the statement  LL Bean gives you a month so I pay it (online through the CU) 5 days before, just in case there is some delay.


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## babsbag

Now here is a novel idea. Will the bank let you put the balloon payment in "escrow" to be used when the lease is paid off? That way they know you have the money. Or how about applying for a 0% credit card and do a balance transfer for the payoff amount? You could then pay the credit card over the course of a few months and have the cash in hand for the closing on the house. There is a balance transfer fee, like 10.00 or a certain percentage, not much... and a whole lot less than the fee the lease people are charging you to get out early.  Of course, that is assuming the bank won't freak over a new credit account. I would talk them to and tell them what the early payoff is costing you  and see if they will work with you somehow.


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## Bruce

I like "plan A" @babsbag. Also the last sentence; not surprising since I've been advocating for that  The real live breathing PEOPLE at the bank have to understand that paying an extra $1,400 to get out of the lease doesn't improve a person's ability to make their mortgage payment. She can give it to the lease company or she can give it to the bank for the house. PLUS the bank has been paying people to originate this loan. But if they blow the loan over what we all think is a HAIR past the "rules" (and not even a risk since the property appraised for ~$30K above the loan value), they don't get their "front end" money, right? Which is better for the bank?


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## misfitmorgan

I have been talking to my loan officer all along. I have told him the exact pay off amount vs my continued payment amount and that it is putting more hardship on me to try to pay it off in the next 3 weeks then just continuing payments. I have also just now emailed him about babs proposed idea of putting the balloon money in escrow. Shall see what he says. He keeps wanting to do FHA and i keep telling him i can not, the selling agreement specifically states conventional loan.


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## babsbag




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## misfitmorgan

nope can't put it in escrow....shall see how the weekend goes.


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## babsbag

bummer


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## Baymule

That stinks.


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## misfitmorgan

Ok got my mattress money over the weekend...should be good to go now.

We also got all 25 sheep sheared and omg my back and everything hurts so bad today. I thought about calling into work but need the monies for the house so here i am lol


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## babsbag




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## Bruce

Whoopie!!!!!!! I'm so happy for you!!!!!!!

You have a little financial "tightness" now but it will soon pass. You will be buying your house not paying the landlord for a dump they don't keep up. Egg salad sandwiches for lunch and dinner saves a lot of money


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## Baymule

*WHOO-HOO!!!!!! *


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Whoopie!!!!!!! I'm so happy for you!!!!!!!
> 
> You have a little financial "tightness" now but it will soon pass. You will be buying your house not paying the landlord for a dump they don't keep up. Egg salad sandwiches for lunch and dinner saves a lot of money


Lol ironically i eat ramen for lunch $0.74 which means my week of lunches cost me $3.70. Aside from that we eat a lot of pork seeing as how we have two in the freezer lol.

DH shot and slit two pigs the other morning for the guy we farm with and then they took them to the butcher. Last night we dropped off a butcher pig we sold at another butcher. So from 16 pigs we are down to 13 but very shortly they are gonna be dropping piggies. As soon as piglets are weaned the two pigs that belong to our friend are going to his house, he finally got the pen built.

Eva, 2 barrows, and a young gilt who isnt gaining like she should are all up for sale for butcher atm. So that will leave us with 7 breeders and a bunch of piglets to pick from for replacements for the 3 gilt.

So We will be making temporary pens for the pigs until we can get a perimeter fence up and then the electric up. We absolutely can not have any livestock getting loose as we will be right on a highway.

Atm all looks ok but so much to do to move. I dont know how it is all going to get done in time and It wont stop raining/ thunderstorming  here to be able to go outside and do things.


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## Bruce

You need the 10/$1 Ramen  Nice that you have all that pork in the freezer. Sadly, I'm pretty much SOL in that regard. Spouse will eat ham and bacon; pork chops ONLY if they are smothered in sauerkraut. Neither she nor DD2 will eat chicken, turkey only at Thanksgiving. Only I like lamb as well. Of course DD1 is vegetarian so she isn't a factor.  

That is going to be a lot of pigs to move! I'm sure you'll get it done, who needs sleep anyway??? Too bad we can't all apparate and have a fence building party.


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## misfitmorgan

They dont sell 10/$1 ramen anymore and it isnt as good lol. Normally i spend approx $20-25/week on lunches so my little $3.70 is a vast improvement already. 

I am trying to locally get some people together for a fence building/moving "party" 

I don't think i could take someone who was so picky with food. Honestly i think i would be like well just go hungry then and i am eating all this delicious stuff myself.

Speaking of....DHs friend Tommy brought over two meat goats last night. He was out trimming horse feet and the guy had 2 goats running around and tommy asked about them. The guy said he had been trying to give them away for 6 months, so tommy called us and brought them over. They are some cross-bred something that are whethered and apparently didnt make weight for last years fair. So they are in their own pen waiting until the weekend when they will be butchered assuming it isnt to hot, heavy rain forecast so probly cool/cold.

I asked DH if we could wait until we moved to butcher....he said no lol. I just figured its easier to move a live goat then a dead frozen one.


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## Bruce

Unless you have a freezer on wheels I would agree! I hope they are tasty. I've only had goat once, at a local Nepalese restaurant. It was a bit tough. Not sure if that is normal or if I just got a "bad one".


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## Mike CHS

We slow cook a goat along with several pork butts in the fall with all the neighbors and the goat gets eaten as fast as the pork.


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## Baymule

Look at it this way, move the smoker/BBQ pit first, along with a thawed out goat. Appoint a "cooker" and when the moving is done, everybody gets a BBQ sandwich!


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## misfitmorgan

I've never had tough goat so i think it might have just been the one you had.

Thats not a bad idea Bay, only problem is most of the people helping wouldn't eat goat lol. Most of them don't even eat lamb. I don't understand it because these same people will go to a restaurant and order lamb to pay $18/lb or something insane and you offer them some lamb and they are or no i dont really like lamb. People can be so odd. On the goat people seem oddly against eating goats locally. I dont really get it, they eat any other meat including wild game.

So my loan agent emailed me yesterday. I provided cashier's checks and recipets for the monies. IT was for sale of hay and livestock. So last night i get an email asking me if i know of any sites specifically showing prices for hay and livestock....like kelly bluebook they use for cars 

I gave them a link to an auction market report thats local. So now they want me to take that money that i have cashiers checks and receipts for and put it into a no penalty CD...for 18 days and then withdrawal it to pay the closing costs. Yes ok fine i can do that but how am i suppose to go this weekend and pay my car lease if i have to put the money into a CD? They are being so completely ridiculous.

They are also apparently concerned I will try to extend, renew, or get a new lease that I now have to provide an additional letter from the finance company saying yes I do own the car free and clear. I will own two vehicles outright when the lease is paid off, why on earth would i want to go lease a 3rd?

It's starting to feel like they are just trying to find every reason possible to not give me the loan.


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## CntryBoy777

It sounds like they are just lining up the "Hoops" for ya to jump thru on ya, to make sure you are serious about the loan. Just always be sure to read the Fine print, because some will wear ya down to the point that ya just sign, sign, sign to get it over with and there will be something overlooked. Then later on when ya realuze it, it will be said, ya should've read the Fine print. Hang in there and it will all work out for ya.


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## misfitmorgan

I have read all the loan papers so far. I have looked for important things like, no balloon payments, reasonable APR, no super high insurance costs, no penalty for early payoff, etc. So far so good.

There seem to be a lot of hoops and really ridiculous ones....like proving that the almost 4k for the car lease is to pay it off and not to re-new it. 

He also mentioned i would have to get all gift funds if we couldnt find a worth for the hay/livestock or do the CD. Here I am thinking, oh yeah sure why not...my family is rich didnt i mention. I mean i have almost 8k over here in my bank account but why would i want to use that.


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## Mike CHS

I'm sure they have some reasons they consider valid but it sure looks like they are intentionally making it harder than they have to.  When we bought our place they had a whole list of things they wanted to see.  I told them to pack it since we were paying cash and they had no reason to see anything other than a Cashiers check.


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## misfitmorgan

Originally they told me all money had to be from a verified source. I specifically asked them if sale of hay and livestock with a cashiers check and a receipt would be a verified source and i was told yes that would be fine and acceptable. Now they want me to somehow prove the value of hay and livestock for them. It doesnt even make any sense, obviously the value is what you can sell something for. If you sold a car for 5k and KBB said it was only worth 4k they would not be emailing m asking for someplace to prove it was worth 5k. If you sold it for 5k obviously someone thought it was worth 5k.


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## Bruce

It would make sense ONLY if you were claiming you had X amount of hay and X animals with "these" attributes that you were using as collateral or WOULD be selling before closing and CLAIMING they were worth $XX. Maybe you needed to take a selfie of you handing off the hay and animals to the buyers and them handing you the money. 

Hang in there @misfitmorgan the end IS in sight!


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## babsbag

You have more patience than I do. When I had a bank yank my chain I found another bank.  And since the one that was jerking me around already held the loan on my house they lost much more than just a refi.  Too bad have to deal with idiots, it can wear on you.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> It would make sense ONLY if you were claiming you had X amount of hay and X animals with "these" attributes that you were using as collateral or WOULD be selling before closing and CLAIMING they were worth $XX. Maybe you needed to take a selfie of you handing off the hay and animals to the buyers and them handing you the money.
> 
> Hang in there @misfitmorgan the end IS in sight!



The problem is i sold some hay and a few of our pigs and a brush hog to help cover the cost of the lease they want me to pay off, now they want me to prove what i sold was worth what i sold even though i gave them a copy of the cashiers check and a receipt the customer signed, for the hay. I havnt put the pig money or brush hog money in the bank yet.

I would go to another bank but now the closing is scheduled for 19 days from now and I am positive the loan process would go over the closing date which means i have to pay $50 each day it goes over, so if it goes over 10 days i have to pay another $500 to the seller directly.

I have emailed him and asked if an itemized receipt would fix the issue so far no response back. I also dont know if i am still suppose to go pay the car lease satuday or not because the hay sale money is for paying the lease. I was going to put the brush hog and pig money in today but now i dont know if i should because i dunno what they are gonna want for "proof of value".

It is definately wearing on me. DH and I have been having being pretty cranky to each other and short with the dogs and other livestock. My mother and nieces have come to visit twice and it just adds to the stress.


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## babsbag

An item is worth what you sold it for if that is what you were paid. That is the basics of economics...maybe they need to go back to school. What does the value matter as long as you have the money?


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## misfitmorgan

He replied back.



> It may be easier to have you either get gift funds, or you could take all of the money and put it into a CD, which you would take a loan out on. We could use the funds as it would be a lien on a secured instrument.
> 
> 
> Gift funds would probably be easier.
> 
> I could try submitting all of your checks and receipts and see what they say; or you could try calling Greenstone to see what they do.
> 
> 
> Sorry for the hassle. Everything has to be documented. Funds from the sale of cattle/hay is a new one for me, but we will get through it!



This makes no freaking sense! He is suggesting i put the "unaccounted for money" into a CD and then get a loan against the CD as a secured asset. I'm flabberghasted, i mean it's just like how how how can that make sense?? Yes take my money which I got legally and fairly and even documented, put it into a CD and incur more debt by getting a loan (which I will have to make payments on) against my money I already have!!

Everything was documented hence the check and the receipt...how much more documented can one get? I mean what was i suppose to do write up a contract for the sale of hay and go with the buyer to a notary and have them put a seal on it??? I also never said i was selling cattle i told him pigs.

I am so angry ad upset atm I can barely see straight.


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## babsbag

I don't blame you at all. Just give the money to a friend and have them "gift" it you. I don't understand why they care where you got the money. What if you had had a yard sale? Stupid and senseless. You would think that you were trying to buy a gun. (I just had to do a 10 day waiting period and federal check to get my own guns back from the pawn shop after we had to "secure" them due to the restraining order against DH)


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> I don't blame you at all. Just give the money to a friend and have them "gift" it you. I don't understand why they care where you got the money. What if you had had a yard sale? Stupid and senseless. You would think that you were trying to buy a gun. (I just had to do a 10 day waiting period and federal check to get my own guns back from the pawn shop after we had to "secure" them due to the restraining order against DH)



I can't have a friend gift me the money. Gift money is only allowed from family, a spouse, or a fiance in some cases. The gift has to be documented including a letter from the gifter saying the money is a gift and it is not expected to be paid back. The gifter also must supply a copy of their bank statement to show the money gift has caused them no un-due financial hardship.

This is all new since 9-11 cause they discovered a lot of the properties the terrorists used were funded by drug/illegal money that was gifted to the buyer.....supposedly. Which is the same reason they care so much where my money came from. I have a federal clearance do they really think i am buying my little farm for terrorist activity? 

Money under the amount of $500 generally they dont care about but if you make several deposits under $500 and it adds up to a large amount then they want to know where that came from too.

Buying a gun is easier I have bought guns and walked out of the store with them the same day, thy were hunting rifle and such of course lol.


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## babsbag

Can't buy a gun in CA and walk out with it, I thought that was true everywhere now. 

Does he have a boss? This is most insane thing I have ever heard. The money would still be unaccounted for CD or not. But it isn't unaccounted for in the first place, you sold something you owned.  Lunacy is in full swing.


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## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> Originally they told me all money had to be from a verified source. I specifically asked them if sale of hay and livestock with a cashiers check and a receipt would be a verified source and i was told yes that would be fine and acceptable. Now they want me to somehow prove the value of hay and livestock for them. It doesnt even make any sense, obviously the value is what you can sell something for. If you sold a car for 5k and KBB said it was only worth 4k they would not be emailing m asking for someplace to prove it was worth 5k. If you sold it for 5k obviously someone thought it was worth 5k.



All this is being done to cover their butts because the IRS has been looking very very hard at anything that might be an avenue for money laundering and/or failing to report income or not reporting the correct amount.


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## babsbag

It's just silly since they know that you are trying to get the money together to pay off the lease that THEY INSISTED YOU PAY. I don't see how this could even remotely be considered money laundering.


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## promiseacres

wow. I hope you get it all figured out.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> It's just silly since they know that you are trying to get the money together to pay off the lease that THEY INSISTED YOU PAY. I don't see how this could even remotely be considered money laundering.


Unless it was dirty and stunk of cologne and she had to wash it before the back would convert it to a bank check  Funny, THEY didn't seem to have a problem with the source of the funds!!

"Funds from the sale of cattle/hay is a new one for me, but we will get through it!"
Key right there, the dude doesn't know how to deal with anything but the "usual". If it isn't already in the bank or a biweekly paycheck, he is lost. How new is he?

Your friends can gift money to your "family, a spouse, or a fiance", they aren't on the loan!!  Then they can gift it to you. And you can gift it back to them the day after you close. What goes around comes around 


I think you best make that lease payment on Saturday! Last thing you need is to be in arrears on it. MIGHT even bring down the prepayment penalty just a wee bit?? This is your second to last payment? And the mortgage bank is forcing you to pay it off ~15 days early and thereby incur a prepayment penalty? Can we all come to Michigan and slap some sense into those bankers? Please??????

I understand the strain and you and DH getting cranky with each other. End each conversation with "I love you, this stress is making me crazy". You both know it but HEARING it goes a long way.

 for both of you! Only 18 more days of this when you wake up in the morning


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## Baymule

So the evil, conniving banker wants PROOF of the value of hay and pigs? And he wants the equivalent of a Kelly Blue Book? I just had a brain fart. Go to Craigs list for your area and find comparable hay and pigs and print them out. Go to all the areas around you and print out everything you can find. Heck, even go to neighboring states and drown the (*&$%^&^ in paper!


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## OneFineAcre

I work for a bank and I can tell you all of the hoops are because of 6 letters
BSA/AML
Bank secrecy act
Anti money laundering
Really beefed up after 911
It's the Fed and the FDIC
My company is currently working our  way out of a cease and desist order from the Fed and FDIC because of a loan we didn't even make

ETA
You should have seen the hoops I had to jump through with my own company to open a bank account to deposit the checks for my 35th class reunion
Don't lose your patience and just keep
Working through what they want as best you can


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## Baymule

This is reminding me of when we bought our place. It was a HUD repo, the purchase/finance process was one of the worst experiences of my life. It was AWFUL. Vandals broke in the house, stripped copper wire from under the house, stole the inside furnace, the outside AC unit, ripped out the breaker box and copper wiring-to the tune of $10,000 in damages. You know what HUD knocked off the purchase price? A big, fat, gi-normous ONE THOUSAND FREAKIN' DOLLARS!  

I had a thread on TEG about all my mis-adventures, here's a couple of posts that might give you a laugh. Also know that no matter how horrible this is, don't quit, don't give up. You WILL get through this and the house will be YOURS.

From August 23, 2014;

Just for your amusement, I got an email from the lender last week wanting to know what were the taxes and insurance on our current home, and wanted the tax statement and insurance policy. And what did we plan on doing with our current house. I was immediately incensed and drafted a return email. I read it to DH and he cautioned me not to send it. For once, I agreed with him. Here it is.

This is in reference to a request by Blankety-Blank Loan asking what we intend to do with the home we currently reside in.
1. This home is paid for.
2. This home is fully insured.
3. This home’s taxes are paid and up to date.
4. We might sell it.
5. We might rent it.
6. It’s ours.
7. It’s PRIVATE PROPERTY.
8. What we do or do not do with the home we currently live in has nothing to do with the loan we are applying for.
9. Many people have multiple properties, what difference does it make?
10. Whether we sell it, rent it, or take a wrecking ball to it, it is ours, it is private property and we will do with it whatever we d**n well please.
I hope this answers your intrusive question.

I slept on it overnight and sent an email back politely asking why they needed such information. She responded that taxes and insurance were considered a liability that we had to pay and that we claimed it as our primary residence, once we closed, our new house would be our primary residence and law only allows one primary residence. OK, I guess that makes sense and I sent her a much nicer answer to the first email asking for the information. Here's the nicer version.

To Whom It May Concern,

This is in reference to the request by Blankety-Blank Loan asking what we intend to do with the home we currently reside in.
This home is paid for, taxes and insurance is paid and up to date. Until we are absolutely sure and certain that the home at ##### County Road #### Smalltown Texas is 1000% ours, signed, sealed, recorded, done deal, there is no way we will put our current residence up for sale. The possibility of us selling our current home and this deal blowing up to the moon would leave us homeless and that’s not happening. All our stuff won’t fit in a shopping cart.
After this loan is finalized and closed and we know the new home is ours, then we will put our current home up for sale.

Plus I faxed the last tax statement and insurance papers. Gheesh. 

Keep my eye on the prize, keep my eye on the prize, keep my eye on the prize.....


From September 6, 2014

Well, the last day of the extension is Monday, Sept 8. And would ya'll believe we had to file yet ANOTHER extension??? There goes another $375, plus $20 to overnight it. So we have spent $1200 in extensions now. The appraiser we were waiting on took over a week to file his report while I watched sand running out of the hour glass.......time is going by......until it got to the point of being out of compliance to submit to HUD, which was on Thursday, the 4th. The real estate agent requested a report showing where the loan was at, paper wise, on Thursday morning so she could include it in her letter to HUD and it took all day for the lender to get that to her. Ummmm......do ya'll not understand _overnight _needs a little lead time? Once the post office closes, overnight doesn't mean much? They got the report she needed at the last possible moment for her to overnight it. I have gone beyond nail biting and am now chewing fingers....up to the knuckles now....



I think I started this thread out about everything going wrong..... We had the AC break down, DH's truck broke down, a tire blew on my moms car that necessitated buying a whole set, we spent thousands at a time when the last thing we need to do is spend money. We held our breath, hoping nothing else would go wrong.

Ha! A chunk was missing out of a tire on DH's truck, they were slick and Thursday, to the tire store I went. Only $1107.81!!!!  Will it ever stop??? Uhhhh.......NOPE! Somebody slammed on their brakes yesterday right in front of DH and he hit them. No damage to his truck, it poked a hole in their plastic bumper. Low impact, nobody hurt but you can't fix these crappy bumpers, so I am sure it will have to be replaced. Oh well, that's what insurance is for. 

We have had more go wrong in the past three months than in the past _THREE YEARS!!!  Gheesh. _When it rains, it pours, but this is ridiculous.

I guess the good news is, the paperwork has been submitted to underwriting. I think underwriting is a code word for torture. I am certain there will be more demands for more unreasonable confessions to crimes we never committed. 

The new end-of-extension-date is September 23.  And this is the absolute last, final, no-more, it's over now extension. 


From September 9, 2014

Lender called me today. The contractor bid to replace the breaker box, wire under the house, kitchen plumbing, AC unit and heating unit was too high. It seems HUD has different tiers of repair costs. The tier we are in is for $5 thousand or less, which is where we were before thieves ripped off the AC unit and heating unit. To write a contract for the true repair costs would put us in another "program" which basically means a whole different set of paperwork and more forms and more approvals and more pints of blood and more baby goats to sacrifice to the Great HUD Foreclosure God on the Alter of Stupidity.

She asked for the contractor to resubmit his bid with a very vague description and told me the price that would be ok by HUD. Whatever goes between us and the contractor, keep it to ourselves. OOO-KAY! I can do that! Gheesh.

I feel all warm and fuzzy knowing the high level of efficiency our gooberment offices operate at. I am especially delighted with the heaps of abuse, give a crap attitude toward the peons who "bother" them, the stifling rules and regulations that make sense maybe to a dead road-kill raccoon infested with maggots and it absolutely warms my little heart that our tax dollars and money borrowed from China goes to pay the salaries of incompetent, disinterested employees who are entitled to waste our time, cost us money and treat us like vermin to be stomped on. 


From September 19, 2014

Got closing papers last night. Went to bank this morning for cashiers check. Checked email when I got home and there was a new set of closing papers. Naturally, the newer, improved, HUD approved, shinier, prettier, smellier papers had a different amount for Cash From Buyers, Line 303.  It seems the wrong set of papers got sent to start with, followed by the corrected set of papers this morning. Back to the bank, got cashiers check for the difference...... yes it was more. 


Well, would ya'll believe that I got yet a THIRD set of settlement papers?? And of course the amount was about $140 MORE? Of course you would, this whole thing has been a nightmare in a circus of vampire clowns pushing wheelbarrows loaded with grimacing goons masquerading as gooberment employees and loan officers whose night jobs are stand up comics.

In sheer frustration I sent the following to the title company,


Today at 3:02 PM
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME???? (beating head on wall) Just got back from the (*&&%$%$#%^^ bank AGAIN! I QUIT!!! I will pay the difference in cash. I'm throwing my computer in the dog's water tub and setting fire to my cell phone. See you Tuesday with TWO cashiers checks and a bucket of pennies.


From September 23, 2014

*WE DID IT! WE SIGNED PAPERS! IT IS OURS! *
*(as long as we make the payments)

*


----------



## OneFineAcre

The only time I have ever bought a HiUD foreclosure I paid cash 
All I had to have was a letter from my bank that I had the cash


----------



## Baymule

Once we sold our old house, we paid off the loan.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Can't buy a gun in CA and walk out with it, I thought that was true everywhere now.
> 
> Does he have a boss? This is most insane thing I have ever heard. The money would still be unaccounted for CD or not. But it isn't unaccounted for in the first place, you sold something you owned.  Lunacy is in full swing.



This guy is not new "Senior Mortgage Lender" is his title.



promiseacres said:


> wow. I hope you get it all figured out.


Me too!



Bruce said:


> Unless it was dirty and stunk of cologne and she had to wash it before the back would convert it to a bank check  Funny, THEY didn't seem to have a problem with the source of the funds!!
> 
> "Funds from the sale of cattle/hay is a new one for me, but we will get through it!"
> Key right there, the dude doesn't know how to deal with anything but the "usual". If it isn't already in the bank or a biweekly paycheck, he is lost. How new is he?
> 
> Your friends can gift money to your "family, a spouse, or a fiance", they aren't on the loan!!  Then they can gift it to you. And you can gift it back to them the day after you close. What goes around comes around
> 
> 
> I think you best make that lease payment on Saturday! Last thing you need is to be in arrears on it. MIGHT even bring down the prepayment penalty just a wee bit?? This is your second to last payment? And the mortgage bank is forcing you to pay it off ~15 days early and thereby incur a prepayment penalty? Can we all come to Michigan and slap some sense into those bankers? Please??????
> 
> I understand the strain and you and DH getting cranky with each other. End each conversation with "I love you, this stress is making me crazy". You both know it but HEARING it goes a long way.
> 
> for both of you! Only 18 more days of this when you wake up in the morning



He is not new he is one of the older loan agents, i believe 12yrs of experience in home loans. The biggest problem is they are not an Ag bank so to have money coming from an Ag source apparently broke their brains.

My friends can not gift money to my family for them to gift to me lol. As i said the person giving me the gift must show a bank statement and it must show that they had the funds to gift already in their account for at least the past two statements.

I plan on paying the lease on Saturday. I'm only using the money from the hay sale to do that and i gave him the market report that clearly shows 2nd cut hay at $4-4.75/bale for the past 3 weeks. I already told him we sold 400 bales at $4/bale and the market report supports it's "value". Don't slap him yet, he is honestly trying to make sure i have everything in order so the underwriter doesnt question anything, so i can go the fast route and close on time.



Baymule said:


> So the evil, conniving banker wants PROOF of the value of hay and pigs? And he wants the equivalent of a Kelly Blue Book? I just had a brain fart. Go to Craigs list for your area and find comparable hay and pigs and print them out. Go to all the areas around you and print out everything you can find. Heck, even go to neighboring states and drown the (*&$%^&^ in paper!


He's not evil Bay lol. I asked him about using craigslist, have yet to have a response.


----------



## misfitmorgan

OneFineAcre said:


> I work for a bank and I can tell you all of the hoops are because of 6 letters
> BSA/AML
> Bank secrecy act
> Anti money laundering
> Really beefed up after 911
> It's the Fed and the FDIC
> My company is currently working our  way out of a cease and desist order from the Fed and FDIC because of a loan we didn't even make
> 
> ETA
> You should have seen the hoops I had to jump through with my own company to open a bank account to deposit the checks for my 35th class reunion
> Don't lose your patience and just keep
> Working through what they want as best you can



I get all the "rules" and hoops but honestly how do they expect me to get a value on livestock and hay other then a market report and what other people have for sale/sold? I mean there is no KBB for hay or livestock or tractors or grains....there are futures and estimates and projections and what the mill is paying but thats it.



Baymule said:


> This is reminding me of when we bought our place. It was a HUD repo, the purchase/finance process was one of the worst experiences of my life. It was AWFUL.



I did go and read that entire thread of yours on TEG awhile back Bay...it was a nightmare for sure!



OneFineAcre said:


> The only time I have ever bought a HiUD foreclosure I paid cash
> All I had to have was a letter from my bank that I had the cash



Thankfully this is a Fredie Mac foreclosure and not a HUD.

In other news. He send the documents for the money to the processing department who will send it to the underwriter if they think it is ok. The underwriter already has the rest of my loan documents. Cross your everythings everyone!!


----------



## Baymule

Everything is crossed! This is going to go through for you!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thanks Bay!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Also I was going to mention. If you have had as much rain as we have start buying 2016 hay. We are going to have a hay shortage here and 90% of the hay that does make it off the field is gonna be very very overripe. I know Wisconsin is in the same boat and several other places....to wet to make hay.


----------



## Bruce

I hope this happens soon, I can't move with everything crossed! Toes, fingers, arms, legs. I'd cross my ears if I could! 

If they take Craig's List ads for the value of hay and livestock they are nuttier than we all think! People ask more than they think they can get and settle for less if they don't. But the Craig's List ad doesn't show "sold for $xx). It is worth (to the buyer) what you were paid for it! I know, been said 10 times already. 

Yep, lots of rain here as well. Al hasn't cut any of his fields yet though some guys have cut, tedded and plastic covered baled the next day. Really small windows. Al doesn't plastic, he has a huge barn and stores it all inside. Can't be having wet hay in there composting away.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thanks Bruce!

Yep craigslist is a problem to use but I dont know what else to give them. Atm the market report says pigs are selling for at best price $67 per 100lbs which is not accurate to the "real" world pricing of selling quality bred animals off of the farm. The auction pigs are culls, slow growers, infertile, poor health, over/under butcher weight, etc. I also sold one of the pigs for butcher and she was $2/lb and weighed approx 300lbs which again is a lot higher then the auction pigs.

Here normally first cut has already been taken and 2nd cut is taken in July at least 90% of the fields have yet to be cut. The first cut that comes off those fields will be very low in nutrition and very thick tough hay so livestock is gonna pick thru it a lot more. We currently have approximately 1800 bales left from last year that we will be holding onto most of for this years hay since our first cut will be  lower quality we will be round baling it and we may not get a second cut. We are forecasting needing approximately double the hay we used last year because of the lower quality of this hay.


----------



## Bruce

Pardon my "French" but 1,800 bales is a crapload to move!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I even cross combed my Hair....just for ya!!....I gotta go to town, so I look like a cross of Alfalfa and PeeWee Herman, but ya are sure worth it..........


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Pardon my "French" but 1,800 bales is a crapload to move!



Yes it is lol. It will take 3 hay wagons to move.



CntryBoy777 said:


> I even cross combed my Hair....just for ya!!....I gotta go to town, so I look like a cross of Alfalfa and PeeWee Herman, but ya are sure worth it..........



Haha thank you, maybe no one will notice


----------



## babsbag

I think we are all sitting on the edge here waiting for an update.   

You would think that we were all buying this house; it's great to have friends in your corner, even cyber friends. Hope it is all good news from here out.


----------



## Latestarter

Not on much but wanted to catch up. Sure hope they're able to cross all the "t"s for you. Have you considered asking for permission to talk directly to the underwriter instead of dealing through middlemen? You'd be surprised the good that can do. This is a small loan so even though any (potential) loss is a loss, this isn't/wouldn't be a "huge" one. Most underwriters actually do use common sense and apply it. The problem is the minions who exist between you and them... they are so worried they'll mess something up (and be chastised by the underwriter) that they do everything possible to cover their six. It may be that it's the loan officer requiring these unreal things "just in case" so he can provide an "issue free" file to underwriting.

Not to be the bad guy here, but an explanation as to why they need side verification of sale value... I'm sure you've heard of folks selling cars to people and writing bills of sale for much less than the car was actually sold for... why? so the seller wouldn't have to pay such a high sales tax or registration fees based on the "value". Same happens with sales of real property between family members... appraised value for tax purposes is used rather than actual sales price for that reason. It's an "independent" verification of actual value based on other actual market transactions.

You are telling the bank that you sold the goods for such and such a price and are providing un-provable documentation to that effect... No matter what the paperwork "states", there is always the chance that you actually sold it for substantially less and the money you're claiming came from the sale actually came from elsewhere. Don't shoot the messenger... 

The other issue here is that our government wants to know every financial aspect of every American. They want to know what you have and what you do with it. Even though it's none of their GD business. In the very near future, the use of actual cash money will become basically illegal and all transactions will need to be done electronically where they can be tracked and documented. Freedom(s) went completely out the window with passage of the patriot act (the final act of tyranny). We are no longer free and are actually at the beck and call of our elected (and above the law/bought and paid for) politicians/govt. 

Since our monetary system is in fact a joke anyway, being forced on us by the "federal" reserve, which is in fact a privately owned and operated organization, a secondary economy will need to blossom and operate outside govt sight and control where "barter" is used and conducted using actual items of real value. In doing so, real freedom will once again be under attack by the overbearing, power hungry govt. If you participate in this secondary economy, you'll be subject to prison and fines of course.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Not on much but wanted to catch up. Sure hope they're able to cross all the "t"s for you. Have you considered asking for permission to talk directly to the underwriter instead of dealing through middlemen? You'd be surprised the good that can do. This is a small loan so even though any (potential) loss is a loss, this isn't/wouldn't be a "huge" one. Most underwriters actually do use common sense and apply it. The problem is the minions who exist between you and them... they are so worried they'll mess something up (and be chastised by the underwriter) that they do everything possible to cover their six. It may be that it's the loan officer requiring these unreal things "just in case" so he can provide an "issue free" file to underwriting.
> 
> You are telling the bank that you sold the goods for such and such a price and are providing un-provable documentation to that effect... No matter what the paperwork "states", there is always the chance that you actually sold it for substantially less and the money you're claiming came from the sale actually came from elsewhere. Don't shoot the messenger...
> 
> The other issue here is that our government wants to know every financial aspect of every American. They want to know what you have and what you do with it. Even though it's none of their GD business. In the very near future, the use of actual cash money will become basically illegal and all transactions will need to be done electronically where they can be tracked and documented. Freedom(s) went completely out the window with passage of the patriot act (the final act of tyranny). We are no longer free and are actually at the beck and call of our elected (and above the law/bought and paid for) politicians/govt.
> 
> Since our monetary system is in fact a joke anyway, being forced on us by the "federal" reserve, which is in fact a privately owned and operated organization, a secondary economy will need to blossom and operate outside govt sight and control where "barter" is used and conducted using actual items of real value. In doing so, real freedom will once again be under attack by the overbearing, power hungry govt. If you participate in this secondary economy, you'll be subject to prison and fines of course.




Long time no see Latestarter! hugss

I had not thought to ask if i could talk to the underwriter...good idea.

Well yes I could say I sold it for more then I sold it for if it was cash but this is a cashiers check directly from the buyers bank for the full amount and the full amount matches the reciept the buyer signed which matches the sale amount of 400 bales for $4/bale which is what the market report at the auction says hay is selling for atm...on the low end of the scale. I'm not sure how else I could make that sale more clear for them. There is no livestock/hay kelly bluebook or anything close to it.

Ag banks use livestock, hay,grain all the time for collateral for mortgages and loans so it must be do-able. The local farmer we know just used his cattle as collateral on a $375,000 tractor he bought.

As far as all the rest I know. We already barter/trade for stuff.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> I think we are all sitting on the edge here waiting for an update.
> 
> You would think that we were all buying this house; it's great to have friends in your corner, even cyber friends. Hope it is all good news from here out.



Me to Babs me too. 

I love having you guys all here rooting for me and letting me know I'm not just being overly frustrated.


----------



## Bruce

"overly frustrated" ????


Where is the emoji of @misfitmorgan going through the wringer on an old Maytag washing machine???


----------



## misfitmorgan

Loan officer said no word from the underwriter yet.....he said he thinks they are waiting for all the documentation   I already gave them everything they asked for. Hopefully they are just talking about the lease paperwork.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> "overly frustrated" ????
> 
> 
> Where is the emoji of @misfitmorgan going through the wringer on an old Maytag washing machine???



We need that emoji lol.


----------



## Baymule

How frustrating all this is! I don't think I could work in the mortgage industry-it would drive me nuts. Kudos to those  who do. Yes, you have everybody rooting for you, we want this for you as bad as you want it for yourselves.


----------



## goatgurl

do you know how hard it is to do chores with everything crossed??  @Baymule lived thru her nightmare financing, @Latestarter did to and so will you.  if it just wasn't soo frustrating and ya didn't feel like all the world counted on it maybe it would be more bearable.  hogs and quiches kiddo.


----------



## Bruce

T minus how many days now @misfitmorgan ??


----------



## misfitmorgan

Hugs to all youg guys!



goatgurl said:


> do you know how hard it is to do chores with everything crossed??  @Baymule lived thru her nightmare financing, @Latestarter did to and so will you.  if it just wasn't soo frustrating and ya didn't feel like all the world counted on it maybe it would be more bearable.  hogs and quiches kiddo.



It kinda does actually. If we dont get think place the only other option is sell all the livestock, rent for a 1 year and then try again. Which we really dont want to do.



Bruce said:


> T minus how many days now @misfitmorgan ??


15 days 

Got the lease paid on Saturday, sending in the requested paperwork today. Including the letter from the lease company saying no i do not have any other accounts with them and i definitely do own the car 100%.


----------



## Bruce

Much as I hate that you were forced to pay a penalty for early termination, think about this. 

My parents AGONIZED over $500 when they bought the house I grew up in for $15.5K (Yeah it was a LONG LONG time ago!) I'm sure they had to scrimp for a time after buying the house due to paying the extra $500 over what they thought they could afford. But after a time that "missing" money was inconsequential. 

Yours will be as well. AND you will get your sanity and blood pressure back to normal in 15 days! Well, maybe 20, gotta move everything first!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Much as I hate that you were forced to pay a penalty for early termination, think about this.
> 
> My parents AGONIZED over $500 when they bought the house I grew up in for $15.5K (Yeah it was a LONG LONG time ago!) I'm sure they had to scrimp for a time after buying the house due to paying the extra $500 over what they thought they could afford. But after a time that "missing" money was inconsequential.
> 
> Yours will be as well. AND you will get your sanity and blood pressure back to normal in 15 days! Well, maybe 20, gotta move everything first!



Yeah moving is going to monumental lol. I'm not worried about having to spend the money, Just the timeframe to come up with almost 8k was very tight. Loan Agent said he would be in today so hopefully he has some sort of news.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah like "Everything is done, see you on closing day"!!!!!


----------



## misfitmorgan

I got a hold of FSA, who sent me to my local MSU Extension, Who send me to a man who works for MSU that does commercial Livestock management or something, so i called his office, he isnt in today so the lady there gave me his cell phone, so i called that and left a message lol. MSU said he should have the info i need for Livestock and Hay sales for the bank so we shall see. Just in case the underwriter wants it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Yeah like "Everything is done, see you on closing day"!!!!!



I stinkin hope so!


----------



## promiseacres




----------



## misfitmorgan

I got an email back from the loan officer/agent whatever. He got my proof my lease is paid off and i have no other accounts with them, wished me a Happy 4th and nothing back from the underwriter yet. I am thinking it is delayed from the holiday/holiday weekend. I know a lot of people are taking a 4 day weekend.


----------



## Baymule

The NERVE of those people!! Taking time off at a time like this!! After all the flaming circus hoops you have been forced to jump through, roll over, play dead, sit up, bark, and jump through hoops again because the first time wasn't good enough!


----------



## Bruce

T -14


----------



## misfitmorgan

Your always so funny Bay!

No new updates on the loan. 

DH has been getting outside stuff together and moved up to the front of property so it will be easier to haul out. He even took an old pony cart and chopped off the shafts, put on mower tires off an old lawn mower...and bam he had a yard kart to move the stuff from up back. Only took him and his buddy screwing off for about an hour to get it done. DH had saturday to tusday off the lucky butt so he spent most of sunday and monday at his buddies playing with the forge. 

We went to Traverse City on Saturday and paid off the lease, went to early dinner with my mom and did some browsing at stores. Sunday we did stuff at the farm, i cleaned things up. I ground about 8lbs of pork and made breakfast sausage. Then we went to my moms to celebrate her birthday. Monday i had to work. Yesterday i took most of the day off except dying my hair and cooking a big breakfast, then we went down to the "big city" (aka larger city then the place with 500 people we live in but less then 5,000 people) and watched fireworks.

And now today i am back at work. Yay! not i cant wait for friday at 4pm to get here.


----------



## Bruce

T-13


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> T-13



Are you counting down for me Bruce?


----------



## Bruce

YOU BET!!!! I'm as (OK, not AS!) excited about this as you are


----------



## misfitmorgan

haha well thank you!!

The latest demand is a signed copy of my transaction history showing the deposits and withdrawals to cover the ernest money deposit, the lease and the closing costs. i told the loan guy that the closing cost money wasnt all in there yet because i had to pay the lease. I am waiting on the pig i sent to butcher to be done(hams are curing) so i can get paid for the pig, and i have two more checks before the 18th that will also go towards closing. So he sais they just need to cover $4,000some not sure what that number is from. So i will be going at lunch and getting that.


----------



## Bruce

T-12


----------



## babsbag

They are certainly putting you through the wringer. So much for the American Dream being easily obtainable. Hang on, almost there.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> They are certainly putting you through the wringer. So much for the American Dream being easily obtainable. Hang on, almost there.



No kidding, silly me I thought finding a house priced in our budget and saving enough for down payment was going to be the hard part.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Ok Bank got a hold of me today and said the underwriter refuses to look at the file until we have proof of funds for closing....100% of funds for closing which atm we dont have because we had to pay the lease off. We are $200 short of the full amount for closing which i will have on the 13th which is payday. But in the mean time they are telling me we may have to re-submit the package all over again....which would very likely push us over the 18th closing date.


----------



## babsbag

What if a friend were to loan you the money? Would that put their nickers in a twist? Would you have to document where you got the money?


----------



## farmerjan

If you can get someone to loan you the money, just say that you had to  wrap the change that you save in a jar whenever you empty out your pockets.  Say you forgot about the "quarter jar"you keep for spare change and here it is.  Go to a bank that no one knows you and get rolls of quarters if you have to.


----------



## Bruce

We've gone over the loan from a friend thing. Not allowed. Family only and ONLY if their prior couple of bank statements show the money was there then, not just put in yesterday 

Sorry @misfitmorgan, that underwriter is a Royal jackass whole. Does he/she have a manager? (Of course!) Can you talk to this person?? It is inconceivable and unacceptable that they are getting pissy about $200 when THEY forced you to blow AT LEAST $700 to pay the lease off early before they would do the loan. There must be SOMEBODY with a brain in the loan office.


----------



## Baymule

Good grief. I sooooo know where you are coming from. Just say thank you to our gooberment for treating us ALL like we are money laundering terrorists and for regulating the banks to the strangulation point.

I really like @farmerjan 's idea of the change bucket. I really, really like it! I think you should take $200 in a bucket, in all denominations of coins and make them count it. Farmerjan, what a genius idea!

Edited to add; make them put it in an escrow account to make sure the money will be there for closing. You sure don't want to lug all that change back home. LOL


----------



## babsbag

I like farmerjan's idea too...change jar sounds good to me.


----------



## Bruce

T-11


----------



## CntryBoy777

I sure know the laws have changed since '78, but I bought a FmHA foreclosed house with a FmHA loan. I was told at the closing that the government couldn't receive the escrow as the seller. They deducted the back expenses along with the closing costs and handed me a check for $711. If this holds true today with a HUD foreclosure, then couldn't they consider and count that as documented dollars to satisfy their ridiculous demands? I mean either they want the business or they don't....there is absolutely no reason for them to be "Squeezing the Balls" to such a degree. Tho, after spending all this time in the boat ya sure don't want to "Rock" it too much, but it sure doesn't endear ya to them for sure.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Definitely doesnt endear me to them. Going in other people told me they are a real pain to get a loan thru and i should have listened and just went straight to my credit union.

I got the lady who bought the pig to pay me yesterday even though the pig isnt done yet because they are doing a real cure on the hams instead of the quick chemical cure. So gotta put that in the bank as well as the check for our brush hog that we sold and then get them proof the funds are in there and send them a copy of the receipts and checks. Then hopefully all will be good.


T-11 seems scary. Still so much to do to pack!!!


----------



## babsbag

That was nice of her to pay you early.  Hope that this is the end of the roller coaster ride.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Me too!!


----------



## Bruce

Nice of the lady that bought the pig to pay before delivery. Obviously SHE understands the situation. Glad they are getting a real cure too. 

Hopefully after all this pain and agony the loan you are getting is a better "deal" than what the CU would have offered (excluding the "opportunity cost" of not being run through the wringer daily for weeks). 

OK, stop reading and pack another box!


----------



## misfitmorgan

I can't I'm at work lol. Also need to get more boxes.

At this point I dont care what the loan is as long as there is a loan. At this point we can afford to pay $850/month for the mortgage so as long as it is less then that i dont care. I can always refinance with a lump of cash in 6 months.


----------



## Baymule

Yeah, just get it, make it yours, MOVE and rest a bit before you tackle re-finance.

Gheesh, when we bought a house some 30+ years ago, it was easy. We just made a whopping down payment and the bank treated us like royalty.


----------



## Bruce

T-10


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Yeah, just get it, make it yours, MOVE and rest a bit before you tackle re-finance.
> 
> Gheesh, when we bought a house some 30+ years ago, it was easy. We just made a whopping down payment and the bank treated us like royalty.



Seems those days are long gone @Baymule. Now you have to prove your not a terrorist, not a money launderer, not a criminal, not lying about your job, not behind on taxes, down't owe money to the feds, are yourself, didnt borrow money, prove the value of your own things, etc. 

It is ridiculous. If you have federal clearance you should be exempt from this BS.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> If you have federal clearance you should be exempt from this BS.


At least the part where you have to prove you aren't a terrorist! Of course you COULD be a double agent just waiting for your chance to destroy the country from your newly purchased small farm property.

T-9!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> At least the part where you have to prove you aren't a terrorist! Of course you COULD be a double agent just waiting for your chance to destroy the country from your newly purchased small farm property.
> 
> T-9!



Very true very true....though highly unlikely.

I spent saturday packing and Sunday fretting...sigh. I wish they would just be like...yep you got the loan congrats, we will see you on the 18th. Of course it cant be that easy.


----------



## Bruce

It will be that easy some time in the next 9 days


----------



## misfitmorgan

Or 10 or 11 of 14....


----------



## Bruce

Now now @misfitmorgan, we are all thinking positively that this WILL work out ON schedule!!


----------



## misfitmorgan

I'm trying to be positive but it's getting so hard to do.


----------



## Baymule

It will close on the appointed day and be yours!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Their "Game" is to make ya "Sweat".....so Don't.....have Faith and the answer will be The Father's Will....the cicumstances will let ya know whether it is worth it or not....and if not there is a Better place you don't know about yet.....

A child may get upset at the store, because they wanted a lollipop, but didn't know the Ice Cream cone was on the way Home....


----------



## Bruce

But they didn't get the ice cream cone because they pitched a fit about the lollipop


----------



## Bruce

T-8


----------



## misfitmorgan

I know i know.....the waiting is killing me though. Yesterday my realtor called wanting to know if we were going to close on the 18th, I told him as far as I know yes but still waiting on the bank. The sellers realtor wanted to know to schedule the meeting with the title company.

In other news....

We got a mini pig female last week...they were suppose to hold her until we moved but whatever. So she came to the farm. 3 days ago she farrows with 13 piglets. The dad is a potbelly pig.

Monday evening Spot pig had 11 piglets and Sarah had 10 piglets around 1am last night. Red pig still has not had her piglets yet and Eva is pretty for sure not bred.

Spot pigs piglets....this is at about 4hrs after birth.




This piggie is tired...



Sarah's Piglets about 20 minutes after birth.



Excuse the afterbirth, I did try to not get it in frame but it was late lol.

I do have pics of the mini pig litter but they are on DH's phone.


----------



## promiseacres

Beautiful piggies!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thank you! I love spots and i certainly have lots now.

Spot pig had 3 girls and 8 boys, not sure on the sex count of Sarah's litter yet.


----------



## CntryBoy777

That oughta be worth a few house notes....they certainly are Cute!!.....take the afterbirth to the bank as "Proof" they are possessed.....


----------



## Bruce

T-7! Wait! If closing is on the 18th, it is T-6!!!

I wasn't aware that pigs were so mobile 4 hours after birth. Figured they were like many other mammals, pretty helpless for some days. You are going to need 1 trip to the new house just for all the pigs!


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> That oughta be worth a few house notes....they certainly are Cute!!.....take the afterbirth to the bank as "Proof" they are possessed.....



I don't think that would go over to well but i like the thought lol.



Bruce said:


> T-7! Wait! If closing is on the 18th, it is T-6!!!
> 
> I wasn't aware that pigs were so mobile 4 hours after birth. Figured they were like many other mammals, pretty helpless for some days. You are going to need 1 trip to the new house just for all the pigs!



T-6...ahhh its to soon!!

I know and with one more due we are going to have to make several trips just for pigs. Each momma and babies will need their own trip as we will have to temporarily modify the trailer so the piglets dont get smooshed in the move and one 400-500lb momma in with the babies is plenty enough. So one trip for red, one for spot, one for sara, one for eva and laverne, one for the herefords and the small meat pigs, one for the goats, sheep, mr. pig and llama. Chickens, ducks, guinea, and geese can go in cages in the back of the truck. Helga can go in a cage in the back of the truck and her babies can go in a cage next to her. Good thing it is a short trip because thats already minimum of 6 trips before we even move ourselves or the hay.

Pigs are very unique, they are born with eyes open and fully mobile at birth. They will be born and within about 30-60 seconds are walking up to moms belly to nurse...it is a wobbly walk but they make it there and it doesnt take long for them to figure out how legs work. It only takes 2-3days before they can run.


----------



## Bruce

Good thing you don't have much to move besides animals!  

Sorry


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Good thing you don't have much to move besides animals!
> 
> Sorry



mhmmm....nevermind the the hoop coops and fencing, stalls to move/build...etc lol. Ironically I'm not even concerned with the house stuff.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Just got the offical word back from the Loan Agent, we will not make closing on the 18th. He is estimating we won't be able to close until the end of the month at the earliest if the underwriter doesnt have any issues with any of the information that was submitted.

They conveniently already took the $450 for the appraisal and it only came back at 56k(today)...the loan is for 52k. I asked him about that since the county has it at almost 80k and it sold in 2007 for 99k but has since had all new windows, central air, and a new roof put on. No reply. I assume its to keep my PMI payments high/make me pay PMI, but that's just a theory.

So now i will have to pay the daily penalty and pay another half of a months rent.

So should I go talk to my credit union? Odds of them being able to get me a loan in less then 20 days are slim to none.


----------



## misfitmorgan

T-19????


----------



## babsbag

I would go and talk to them. While they might not be able to do it in 20 days your current place might not either. What have you got to loose but money? What a #1 pain.  

As far as the appraisal, 2007 was before the big housing disaster so that might be part of it. In CA (which is its own universe), we had a house appraise at 460,000 in 2006 and in 2008 I couldn't sell it for 99,000 and ended up walking away.


----------



## Bruce

@babsbag is right, a 2007 or 2008 appraisal isn't worth the paper it is written on in many parts of the country.

I know taxes are low there but I would contact the county to have them lowered once you have the property since the "professional" appraiser pegs it at $24K less.

I don't know about the underwriter having issues with what you have given them but you have given them everything (even the stupid things) s/he asked for. The only reason they can't close on the 18th is incompetence on his/her part. It isn't like you just dumped a pile of paper on them yesterday. The underwriter has had WEEKS to look at all the info and should have been keeping an ever increasing "tally" and receiving the final piece (which I THINK you have provided) shouldn't be the START of his/her work. 

Seems to me the bank should be paying the daily penalty for not closing on time.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Realtor got back to me. The seller agreed to give me an extension penalty free to a new closing date of the 27th. If we go over again I will have to pay but paying $50-150 is way better then $600-700. The seller only agreed because of the unusual circumstance of the bank requiring my car lease be paid off and the extra $4,000 i had to come up with for that.


As far as the 2007 price...i can find many comparables that put the house worth 70-80k. The house is on a small highway, central air, natural gas, new windows, a new roof in 2008, a full basement, has the barn, detached garage, new thick gravel in the driveway, and two other outbuildings, 10 acres with 5 acres tillable and 5 acres woods. The comparables have no barn, no outbuildings except maybe a shed, no central air, no full basement, and no natural gas. 

I dunno, maybe they didnt realize it is 10 acres. They seem a bit incompetent. We will be having it surveyed and re-appraised in a year or two after we have the carpet ripped out and the hardwood floors re-done, and pour the rest of the cement floor in the basement atm it is only about 50% finished down there.

We plan on ripping out the carpet which is everywhere except the kitchen and bathroom atm, hardwoods floors are under it. Then we are ripping off the circa 1970 paneling which is overtop of (we believe)plaster walls and fixing those or hanging drywall. 

After that DH is making concrete counter tops for the kitchen. I don't recall for sure but i know at least half of the cabinets in the kitchen are newer like since the last sale. So i will be re-finishing them. We will be re-doing the bathroom atm it is a 3/4 bathroom as well as adding a master bathroom.

We also have plans to build a hog barn, non-confinement style as well as a shop for DH to blacksmith in and he wants a butcher building but we shall see what the county says on that. We will also be finishing the inside of one of the outbuildings(looks like the original house) to turn it into a guest house. 

Those are the plans atm anyhow  We shall see how they change.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I forgot to mention....this house is already set up to have a generator plugged into it too. They even have a tiny matching mini house for the generator.


----------



## Baymule

This place sounds like manna from heaven. It is just what you needed. One extension ain't so bad, it could be a whole lot worse. Hang in there. 

I love love love the piggies! Give them a hug and a squeeze from their Aunt Baymule. (When you load them up) I know they will bust your eardrums squealing like you're killing them, so wear ear plugs. LOL


----------



## misfitmorgan

I do like the house a lot.

I will tell them Aunt Baymule says hi and dont get smooshed in the trailer. Our moms are pretty calm and the babies will take after them so it shouldnt be to bad.

The later date will actually be good for the piglets because that means at least 2 of the litters will be 2.5 weeks old, the mini litter will be 3 weeks old. Easier to move when they are a bit bigger.


----------



## Bruce

T-14 

Now you have more time to pack the household goods 
Lemonade from lemons @misfitmorgan


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mini Pigs! Well 1/2 mini 1/2 potbelly...


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> T-14
> 
> Now you have more time to pack the household goods
> Lemonade from lemons @misfitmorgan



Oh i'm not worried about that, ive done that lots of times. Ive never moved a farm before though lol.


----------



## Bruce

You have enough freezer space for all that pork?????!!!!!
Sure are cute.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Those are mini pigs lol....not freezer meat. Half of that litter goes back to the old owner....or more we dont really want them we want to breed mini pigs since we have a mini boar.

Red pig and Spot pig are owned by our friend Tommy, so as soon as they are old enough to wean the piglets they will be going to his house. The guy we borrowed the boar from gets one piglet from each litter his boar bred. So that means we have 9 piglets from Sarah and 10 piglets from Spot, one piglet from sarah will be for a previous buyer. We get half of Spot pigs litter so 5 piglets from spot and 9 from sarah. A few of those are spoken for already.

We still have an entire pig in the freezer plus a 1/4 of another pig lol. The whole pig is going to get the bacon cut off and then the rest is going to be made into ground pork/sausages.

Reminds me we have to built a smoke house/shack asap at the new place too.


----------



## Bruce

Definitely need that smoke house!! A new vendor showed up at the farmer's market a few weeks ago. Pork, beef, chicken. They had some side pork, just raw meat so as "bacon" it is really in appearance only, no seasoning at all. I asked about uncured bacon 2 weeks ago. We had talked about nitrates the week before when I bought the side pork, he doesn't eat things with nitrates either. I asked if they had any smoked, uncured (nitrate that is) bacon. Nope, the guy that does their processing only smokes ONCE a year!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

@Bruce - it's not hard to smoke your own bacon.  I just got finished with some.  I rubbed the meat with salt, herbs, spices and a little maple syrup...let it sit in the juices and turned it every day for a week. (and yes, I used pink salt - but only half of what it called for and I don't think I'll use it at all next time)

Then I slow smoked it for about 5 - 6 hours using apple wood until the bacon got to 150 degrees.  A little time consuming, but easy peasy.  And, DELISH!


----------



## Bruce

But you need to have a smoker or a smoke house, right? I'm pretty sure my wife wouldn't want me smoking meat in the oven  Maybe I could "smoulder" some in the woodstove 

Don't know what a smoker costs. I wouldn't mind being able to do it if I had a reasonably priced meat source (let's face it, Farmer's Markets aren't exactly the Walmart/Costco price business). But it wouldn't get used much. THOUGH, if I keep having trouble finding uncured bacon (the big grocery stores seem really fickle about carrying it and what they have often looks like fat with a little meat) I might have to do something myself. My wife LOVES bacon and while nitrates don't give her migraines like they do me, her rheumatologist said they aren't good for her. Fortunately for ME, I prefer sausage and McKenzie makes an uncured bag sausage, easy to get in any store here. Of course my wife won't eat sausage


----------



## Baymule

@Bruce, we bought a $99 offset barrel smoker at Walmart and it performed just fine. Whike it isn't fancy, it got done what we wanted done. Not like we were smoking the whole hog!

I didn't want the nitrites in our bacon either, so I rubbed the slabs with brown sugar and salt, packed them in 2 gallon ziplock bags and only let them stay in the refrigerator 2 days before smoking.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Bruce - I use one very similar to Bay's.... except mine is a little more "used" looking, lol!   Picture below is NOT mine - just a pic of what it looked like about 10 years ago!


----------



## babsbag

We have one like Bay's too, but it is OLD and HEAVY...DH found it on CL. I also have an electric one, called a Big Easy. We used it a lot until DH found his treasure on CL. I haven't done bacon...I should.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I'm not sure i understand what your calling "cured" and "uncured"?

Bacon - cured, cold smoked (needs to be cooked)
Pancetta - cured (needs to be cooked)
Prosciutto - cured (eat raw) Prosciutto di parma is cured with sea salt only
Ham - wet or dry cured, hot smoked (no cooking needed but often done anyhow) Ham can be cold smoked
Pork Belly - uncured, unsmoked "bacon" as in it is the same cut as bacon with nothing done to it

Something being cured or uncured does not always mean it does or does not have nitrates in it. Pink salt is not required for curing of meats. As far as i know any meat can be cured with sea salt, table salt, kosher salt, himalyan pink salt(no nitrates), or the stuff we refer to as pink(curing) salt which is table salt and sodium nitrate. Pink/curing salt actually pickles the meat instead of curing it and perserves the color.

Nitrates occur naturally in several foods such as celery. Far as i know there are no commercially sold breakfast meats that do not contain nitrates, yes even if they so no added nitrates or nitrate free etc...they use celery juice instead of sodium nitrate. Many fruits, vegetables and grains are high in naturally occurring nitrates. Your body converts some nitrates into nitrites but your body sees no difference between say celery nitrate and sodium nitrate. Your body however will only convert some nitrates to nitrosamines which is what usually cause negative effects on people. Vitamin C will inhibit the formation of nitrosamines. So all that comes down to, have you tried vitamin C first and also...you can cure without curing salt/pink salt/nitrates.

Bay and FEM are right you can smoke meats in anything. Cold smoke bacon is generally a 2 day smoke after curing for your preferred length of time and you dont need any heat on the meat just smoke. There are many videos of people smoking bacon, pork chops, fish...in a cardboard box with a hot plate, a small fan, and a pie tin full of wet wood chips. Lots of people make smokers out of new metal trash/feed cans. Anything that will hold the smoke in and you can put a small amount of ventilation in and something to make smoke will work just perfectly well.

You could cure and smoke pork belly you get from the store to make it into nitrate free bacon. You can also ask the meat department of a local store to order you some pork belly or to save you a whole belly when they do their normal order.

A butcher only curing or smoking meat once a year seems insane. The pig we sold ended up with 49lbs of bacon, ham, and smoked pork chops.

What is a uncured bag sausage? just a bulk sausage?


----------



## goatgurl

I've got a side of bacon in the freezer that youall are going to force me to taking out and start curing and smoking the dang thing.


----------



## Bruce

I am aware that celery contains nitrates, I ASSUME a lower concentration than what they use in "cured" meats.

To my knowledge, as seen in prepackaged grocery store items:
Cured - sodium nitrate will be one of the last ingredients.
Uncured - no sodium nitrate. 
The uncured costs more, I ASSUME because they make less of it. I really do not understand why commercial stuff still includes sodium nitrate since everything is refrigerated now. I have not seen a scintilla of color difference between "cured" and "uncured" bacon in the store nor during the time an opened package has sat in my refrigerator.

I shouldn't have said "uncured" sausage. It doesn't say anything on the package. It just doesn't have sodium nitrate in it which, I guess, is my poor method of distinction. The bags are 1 pound "loose" sausage filling as opposed to being packed into "skin" and twisted into links. Some link sausages doesn't have sodium nitrate, some do. 

These "offset" smokers. From quick investigation, the fire is in the little "barrel" on the side and the big part is where you put the stuff to be smoked. Can they be used as regular BBQs as well? My propane BBQ gave up the ghost, I haven't replaced it since I didn't use it all that much. If the offset could be both a smoker and a BBQ, I could sort of justify messing around with smoking stuff as I figure out what I am doing as opposed to buying "just" a smoker. 

Oh, and a stupid question, I ASSUME that when you smoke bacon, you do the whole slab then slice it, right? 



goatgurl said:


> I've got a side of bacon in the freezer that youall are going to force me to taking out and start curing and smoking the dang thing.


Get going @goatgurl !


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Yes, you can put fire directly in the bigger part of the "smoker" and use it as a regular bbq/grill.   I cut my bacon into smaller chunks that would fit in a Ziploc bag.  I smoked these chunks until I got a temp of 150 degrees - or really close anyway.  Certainly no expert here - I've made bacon exactly twice in my life, lol!  But, I guarantee you it's DELISH!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I am aware that celery contains nitrates, I ASSUME a lower concentration than what they use in "cured" meats.
> 
> To my knowledge, as seen in prepackaged grocery store items:
> Cured - sodium nitrate will be one of the last ingredients.
> Uncured - no sodium nitrate.
> The uncured costs more, I ASSUME because they make less of it. I really do not understand why commercial stuff still includes sodium nitrate since everything is refrigerated now. I have not seen a scintilla of color difference between "cured" and "uncured" bacon in the store nor during the time an opened package has sat in my refrigerator.
> 
> I shouldn't have said "uncured" sausage. It doesn't say anything on the package. It just doesn't have sodium nitrate in it which, I guess, is my poor method of distinction. The bags are 1 pound "loose" sausage filling as opposed to being packed into "skin" and twisted into links. Some link sausages doesn't have sodium nitrate, some do.
> 
> These "offset" smokers. From quick investigation, the fire is in the little "barrel" on the side and the big part is where you put the stuff to be smoked. Can they be used as regular BBQs as well? My propane BBQ gave up the ghost, I haven't replaced it since I didn't use it all that much. If the offset could be both a smoker and a BBQ, I could sort of justify messing around with smoking stuff as I figure out what I am doing as opposed to buying "just" a smoker.
> 
> Oh, and a stupid question, I ASSUME that when you smoke bacon, you do the whole slab then slice it, right?
> 
> 
> Get going @goatgurl !




Yep i agree the offset smokers can be used as a grill just fine. My ex-hubby owned one and we used it a lot as a smoker and a grill/bbq, the one we had even had a place for a spit that we bought after market.

I mentioned celery specifically because when they use celery juice in place of sodium nitrate they dont have to label it with sodium nitate as they can simply label it as natural flavorings. Celery has 3,151ppm for nitrate, Us Food and Drug puts a 500ppm regulation for sodium nitrate on finished cured meats...so that would be less then celery. It may just happen that celery doesnt turn into nitrosamines so doesnt affect you.

If there is no color difference i would assume it has nitrate("natural") or food dye. We have made "cured" meats without sodium nitrate (which USDA says makes it not a cured meat but the rest of the world disagrees) and there was definately a color difference, the most noticeable difference is in hams. As far as i know USDA requires the use of nitrate in all packaged cured meats.

Yes the whole slab or chunks as FEM mentioned, then it is chilled and sliced. About half frozen gives the most even slices.



frustratedearthmother said:


> Yes, you can put fire directly in the bigger part of the "smoker" and use it as a regular bbq/grill.   I cut my bacon into smaller chunks that would fit in a Ziploc bag.  I smoked these chunks until I got a temp of 150 degrees - or really close anyway.  Certainly no expert here - I've made bacon exactly twice in my life, lol!  But, I guarantee you it's DELISH!



Thats a hot smoke for bacon. 150-225F is hot smoke, cold smoke is 100F for approx 30 mins then 80-90F for 6 hours. Hot smoke is a faster wetter method. That used to be part of the distinction between dry bacon and wet bacon, most all commercial bacon is now cold smoked. Not that i'm knocking either method at all i LOVE bacon no matter how it is smoked or cured.

Hot smoke is the way to go if your not using sodium nitrate, because the higher heat makes it smoke faster which reduces the risk of bad bacteria coming in.

There are many ways to hot and cold smoke, i just gave examples. I don't think one method is really better then another for flavor, just time/technique may be better for one person over another.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> As far as i know USDA requires the use of nitrate in all packaged cured meats.
> 
> Yes the whole slab or chunks as FEM mentioned, then it is chilled and sliced. About half frozen gives the most even slices.


That would explain it. Just like they require eggs to be washed to within an inch of their "lives". Then require refrigeration because the natural bacteria barrier has been destroyed. 

So besides the smoker, now I need @Latestarter's slicer  Getting expensive. But then even the cheapest bacon I will buy runs about $7/pound and that is NOT the "uncured" stuff. Too bad people in this house are so pissy about what they will eat. Lots of food *I* will eat could be put on the BBQ. 

T-13


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> That would explain it. Just like they require eggs to be washed to within an inch of their "lives". Then require refrigeration because the natural bacteria barrier has been destroyed.
> 
> So besides the smoker, now I need @Latestarter's slicer  Getting expensive. But then even the cheapest bacon I will buy runs about $7/pound and that is NOT the "uncured" stuff. Too bad people in this house are so pissy about what they will eat. Lots of food *I* will eat could be put on the BBQ.
> 
> T-13



Yep, i do think the egg washing has gotten out of control. We dont wash our eggs if they are not dirty. Of course I tested my birds and the flock was negative so no salmonella worries for me. I also keep my eggs out on the counter. I saw someone on a blog was talking about SOAKING their eggs in a heavy bleach solution they made....."to get rid of all the germs". If i could have smacked that person thru the screen i would have, not that i am worried about what they do to themselves, i am more worried about others following their example blindly.


----------



## misfitmorgan

You can slice bacon with a sharp knife. IT will not be as pretty but cooks/tastes fine.

Well you could just make food for yourself to eat and tell them to go have a salad


----------



## Baymule

I hope that after y'all get settled in your new place, you can post a thread on slaughter and processing. I posted what we did, but as a newbie to that sort of thing, I'm sure it could be much improved upon.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I think you did great Bay! 

It's not so much about this is the exact way and any other way is wrong, its more about look i did this and i have xxxlbs of usable meat now and i saved $xxx. 

We can see about working on a slaughter/process thread though. We have 8 hams to do that we have put off...gonna have to get those done after we move. We should also have 2 bellies to cure/smoke into bacon. 
We may do some smoked chops and smoked sausages for christmas presents. We need to buy a vacuum seal machine...ok well not need but i would much rather have vacuum seal and they are pretty cheap.

I have some jowls i might try making some jowl bacon. There will also be more sausage!


----------



## Bruce

Should we all send our addresses for your Christmas list? 



misfitmorgan said:


> You can slice bacon with a sharp knife. It will not be as pretty but cooks/tastes fine.
> 
> Well you could just make food for yourself to eat and tell them to go have a salad


Oh, I don't know if DW and DD2 could eat it if it isn't pretty!! OK, maybe they aren't THAT bad. It is bacon, they would eat it. And the commercial stuff sometimes gets nearly paper thin, guess their slicers need adjustment then. Neither DW or DD2 has ever complained about it. I do have knives and methods for sharpening them. I'll try to remember to ask the meat guy at the Farmer's Market about the possibility of getting a pork belly from him. Probably would have to wait until the next slaughter time since obviously he is bringing prepackaged (vacuum in plastic) product that was done by the processor. Worth a look, the package of side pork I got had acceptable meat/fat ratio. Naive question: how big (dimension and weight) would an "average" pork belly be?

They would still expect me to make their salads. And it can't just be "throw some lettuce in a bowl". Nope. Gotta have scallions and carrot and celery and spinach (but not for DD2 and not much for DD1) and the carrot has to be peeled for DD1 and cheese (but DD2 wants her's on the side) and cucumber and pine nuts (but not for DD2) tomato (in season) but not for DW or DD1. I'm sure I've missed something. Yeah I usually do get them to help with that but it sure isn't a "quick side" kind of thing.


----------



## misfitmorgan

A commercial average pork belly is 12-13lbs, please note a "pork belly" is usually half of the actual belly.

Commercial processing is kill, slice down the belly to gut.....so the belly is always in two "halves". So when asking for a pork belly you may want to specify how many pounds of belly you would like, to help clear up confusion.

Example:
Guy1 - can i get a pork belly?
Guy2 - a pork belly?
Guy1 - Yes you know the part of the pig they make bacon out of usually?
Guy2 - oh ok, how much do you want?
Guy1 - The whole belly
Guy2 - ok if you say so.
Guy 2 brings out a package of a "whole pork belly" that is 40lbs

While probably not necessary to do the skit i found it fun! 

Average pork belly - 8-20lbs depends on the size of the pig and is only actually half the belly from said pig
Entire/Whole pork belly off of said pig - 16-40lbs 

Depending how long you smoke the bacon for your going to loose about 20% of the weight, so 40lbs raw will be 32lbs of cured uncooked bacon.

You can leave the skin on or take it off before or after curing and smoking. If the skin is left on for cure and smoking reduce your cure by 10% if going by weight and also know your going to lose about 30%(instead of 20%) of the weight after it is cured/smoked and ready to slice.

Cold smoking loses less weight as well, hot smoking will lose around 25% depending how hot you go. If that confusing i can try to explain it better.

Costco carries pork belly....11-12lbs normally.


I would be happy to send porkie presents to you guys!! So long as we have extra pork lol. When i get home i am taking about 45-50lbs of pork out of the freezer so i can make it into pulled pork on the big grill tomorrow. I'm keeping proably 5lbs, then i am giving half of that to my friend and half to my mom.

I think that gets us down to like 250lbs of pork left. DH said i'm not allowed to buy any meat until we use up at least half of the pork we have. He wanted to do chickens this year but the freezers were already mostly full.

Your DD and DW would have starved to death when i grew up. At our house it was here is food eat or go hungry....no snacks, no soda, no candy, nodda if you didnt eat dinner. My siblings all raise their kids the same way.


----------



## Bruce

Cute skit  Yes, it IS good to make sure people are talking about the same thing.



misfitmorgan said:


> I think that gets us down to like 250lbs of pork left. DH said i'm not allowed to buy any meat until we use up at least half of the pork we have.


Sounds like Christmas needs to come early for you! 

Pulled pork, yum. 

I'll have to check out the Costco pork belly as an alternative to the guy at the Farmer's Market. In fact, since I've never smoked anything, it may be better to learn on what I ASSUME will be less costly meat.


----------



## CntryBoy777

IMHO, ya can't get any better bacon than jowl bacon...that is my Favorite.....
Around here if the skin is left on it is called rind-on bacon. When I was growing up the same thing happened at our house, too.....except there wan't any snacks or other stuff to get whether ya ate dinner or not.....we had sooo many meals of cornbread and purple hull peas that I had to try many things on them just to be able to eat them again. I would always save a wedge of cornbread to be buttered and covered in honey, molasses, or sorghrum. I'm mighty thankful it was peas and not turnip greens..........in order to stomach those nasty things I have to have pepper sauce.


----------



## Bruce

So I did some Googling on "smoking bacon" and found that to be a "last and not required" step. I'm so ignorant! I figured it was smoked instead of being "cured", either/or. Seems one needs to plan ahead when they want bacon, has to sit in the curing "stuff" (maple syrup, the REAL stuff, brown sugar and non iodized salt) in the refrigerator for a week, turned daily or every other day. Then you have another day to smoke and then leave it in the refrigerator 1 more day. I gotta say the people in the videos I watched had some super good pork belly, much more lean than fat, unlike commercial bacon.


----------



## OneFineAcre

So the place that processed our hogs sends the "pork belly" to us like this
It's labeled bacon
We call it "streak of fat streak of lean"
We eat it just like this
It's not bacon
If you've never tried it I suggest you do
Totally uncured
Very tasty


----------



## greybeard

Nitrates and nitrites are different and have different uses and rules in regards to curing meat.
Nitrates are not used for curing bacon, and aren't generally even allowed to be used for that purpose by USDA/FSIS (Food Safety and Inspection Service).

There are exceptions to that rule, and MisfitMorgan is quite correct in bringing up celery, as FSIS says this:

_*Can bacon be made without the use of nitrite?*
Bacon can be manufactured without the use of nitrite, but must be labeled "Uncured Bacon, No Nitrates or Nitrites added" and bear the statement "Not Preserved, Keep Refrigerated Below 40 °F At All Times" — unless the final product has been dried according to USDA regulations, or if the product contains an amount of salt sufficient to achieve an internal brine concentration of 10% or more, the label does not have to carry the handle statement of "Not Preserved, Keep Refrigerated below ___" etc. Recent research studies have shown for products labeled as uncured, certain ingredients added during formulation can naturally produce small amounts of nitrates in bacon and, therefore, have to be labeled with the explanatory statement *"no nitrates or nitrites added except for those naturally occurring in ingredients such as celery juice powder, parsley, cherry powder, beet powder, spinach, sea salt etc.*"
The following link will lead to a very clear explanation regarding all things bacon (also known as the gateway meat for vegans)
https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/porta...at-preparation/bacon-and-food-safety/ct_index_


----------



## Latestarter

Just read up to date. Sorry about the bank fiasco... sucks to be held hostage. Even though I worked for the lenders, I always looked out for the borrowers, who were my clients. I would recommend you talk to the credit union regardless. Since most everything has already been done (paperwork, documentation, etc.), you should be able to provide them a finished loan package in a matter of days, not weeks or months, & they should be able to order a new appraisal and have the loan done in 2 weeks. (CU's virtually ALWAYS operate faster than a bank...)  This as long as they aren't exceptionally busy (why would they be), and they will use the same title company that you started the evolution with. You might end up with a better rate, lower costs, better service, less hassles, and a much better loan experience over time. Having been in the industry, I virtually always recommend a CU over a bank for virtually any financial need. 

Do NOT tell the CU that there's another appraisal that's been done. I believe you said it's a non govt backed loan, so the chances that the CU will use the same appraiser are unknown. If you wish, you can ask the lender to use a specific appraiser as referred by the REA as long as that appraiser is on their allowed/preferred list. Your realtor can talk with the appraiser to let him/her know the details of the transaction.

Your valuation for property tax purposes should automatically adjust based on the sales price once the sale & deed is recorded with the city/county. You would then have to apply for any tax advantage programs like homestead, agricultural, etc.

PMI has nothing (specifically on a purchase) to do with appraised value... it has to do with the contract purchase/sales price, and the amount of that value that's financed. You might have a contract sales price of $100,000.00 and an appraised value of a million. For a purchase, as far as the lender is concerned, the value is the sales price of  100K, NOT the appraised value. They are primarily concerned that the appraised value isn't LESS than the agreed upon sales price. Typically, no bank will accept a higher valuation than that initial sales price for the first year after the purchase. Now, after 2 years, you can get a new appraisal done and if the loan amount is less than 80 (or sometimes 76) percent of the new value, you can get the PMI removed (as long as you've never had a late payment).

Grats on the pigs and piglets. You sure have your hands full with everything going on there. Hope it's all behind you by the end of the month.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> In fact, since I've never smoked anything



You have led a very sheltered life. BYH is here to help you let your inner Country Boy run free...... or maybe just run amok....


----------



## Latestarter

I'm pretty certain that @Bruce has an inner wild child screaming for release but it's a bit like good old pandora's box... I think he's scared to release it  Boy wouldn't it be fun to watch though


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## babsbag

All this talk of pork has me ready to raise another pig. Unfortunately my bucks are living in the future pig pen so until I move them I'm stuck.


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## Bruce

T-12



OneFineAcre said:


> So the place that processed our hogs sends the "pork belly" to us like this
> It's labeled bacon
> We call it "streak of fat streak of lean"
> We eat it just like this
> It's not bacon
> If you've never tried it I suggest you do
> Totally uncured
> Very tasty
> View attachment 36713


That is what I bought from the guy at the FM though his was sliced VERY thick. It tasted fine but it was just "fried meat". I forgot to ask him about pork belly. There is always next week. How long does it take to raise a hog to slaughter size?


----------



## babsbag

I raised two of them to about 150 lbs in 6 months.  I was working at a school at the time and brought home about 20-30 lbs of lunch room scraps for them everyday. Hog heaven for sure. Plus they got a lot of milk and eggs and I have an excess of both.


----------



## Bruce

T-11


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## Baymule

Depending on breed, in 6-9 months you should have a 200-300 pound pig.


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## Bruce

I should point out that the reason I asked is to see if I could guess how often Farmer Brown might slaughter hogs. Of course I can ask him IF next week I remember. If I decide I want to try to cure some bacon myself, I would want a nice fresh pork belly


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yes Jowl bacon is delicious!!

When i was little we didnt have much at all either @CntryBoy777 often times we ate crackers with jelly,jam, or ketchup and had nothing else for dinner. My poor mom had the worst of it because we got to go to school and eat a good lunch. That was before mom met and married my step-dad, when we got older things got better and we got snacks but with 4 kids and their friends in one house snacks were often things like apples, pears or popcorn because we got the fruit for free and popcorn kernels were cheap. Luckily as a kid we never ate the same thing for longer periods of time and we liked crackers a lot. 



Bruce said:


> So I did some Googling on "smoking bacon" and found that to be a "last and not required" step. I'm so ignorant! I figured it was smoked instead of being "cured", either/or. Seems one needs to plan ahead when they want bacon, has to sit in the curing "stuff" (maple syrup, the REAL stuff, brown sugar and non iodized salt) in the refrigerator for a week, turned daily or every other day. Then you have another day to smoke and then leave it in the refrigerator 1 more day. I gotta say the people in the videos I watched had some super good pork belly, much more lean than fat, unlike commercial bacon.



That's why i was like merm...i think he has something confused or misunderstood here  It's ok if we all knew everything we would be bored out of our minds. You can only smoke or only cure pork belly or eat it as just meat as OFA showed(grandma used to make "raw" bacon but she coated it in maple syrup and put it under the broiler...it was good stuff) those things just are not bacon. They can still be mighty tasty but not bacon.

I agree with @Baymule and @babsbag pigs depending on breed and feed can take 6months to 18 months to grow to the size wanted....if they are general meat pigs or a meat pig cross your probably looking at 6 months to butcher. 

The pork belly does not need to be fresh, it can be frozen and then thawed and made into bacon just fine. The fat/meat ratio can be adjusted based on how the pig is raised and at what age it is slaughtered. Under 250lbs and your going to bed less fatty but skinnier bacon, over 250lbs more fat and wider bacon slices.

@Latestarter I'm rather concerned about anyone else running my credit atm which is why i was not wanting to go the CU route if I wasnt getting the loan through them for sure. Quicken ran my credit twice and chemical bank has now run it 3 times....every inquiry has dropped my credit a few points minimum and i am now a little below 700 which means i get put into the higher interest category then i would have been in. I should hear back from the underwriter today sometime and depending on if she says good to go on the loan and approved or i need this and the other thing will decide if i go take to the CU after work.


----------



## Bruce

T-10

The bank shouldn't be screwing you on the interest rate since THEY ran your score 3 times!!! Why isn't once enough? I would fight that one big time. In person if necessary. And they should recognize that the Quicken inquiries shouldn't increase your rate, you aren't getting a loan from those snakes. I'm guessing these people aren't going to be on your pork Christmas present list.

Yeah it is confusing to the "uninitiated" when the package of bacon says "uncured" if what that means is just no "pink salt". I ASSUME that if you "only" smoke the belly it is done longer and at lower temp? Otherwise won't it be like the "fully cooked" stuff they sell in the store?


----------



## misfitmorgan

The bank i'm trying to get a loan with now isnt screwing me on the interest rate but if i went to my CU they would need to use the first score they ran which is now lower because of the 5 inquires.

No, bacon is bacon because it is cured and smoked. If it is not cured and not smoked it isnt bacon. Whether bacon is "raw" or fully cooked it is still cured and smoked. Smoking pork belly only would be much like any other smoked meat such as pulled pork or smoked brisket...delicious but the salt factor is lost. If you want bacon flavor you can do just about any cure you like as long as you have the salt factor which makes it a brine(dry or wet which after the first fews days is wet because of the moisture pulled from the meat) When we do ours we do brown sugar, salt and lots of black pepper usually and then smoke it with apple wood. If we do salmon we do a mix of white and brown sugar, salt, and a bit of black pepper. We love black pepper though, if you love maple bacon use maple syrup. If we want sweet bacon i usually just cook it in some maple syrup when i cook it for that meal.

Your correct, no cure according to labeling just means no pink salt. From the excerpt GB added you can see many things naturally contain nitrites/nitrates that can be used in place of pink salt. Nitrites and nitrates can be used in meat("allowed" meats vary per the goberment as Bay would say), nitrates are converted to nitrites in the body though.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Well fan freaking tastic....bank agent just let me know there is a problem with the appraisal. 

They used comparables that did not resemble the property and they made large adjustments which apparently fanny mae wasnt happy with so they requested more comparables late friday afternoon/evening. Problem is i dont yet know whether they adjusted up or down. Meaning there is atm a possibility the house wont appraise for enough....which is insane. The appraisal came back at 56k the bank loan is for $52,725 so that means there is only $3275 room for error in the downward direction without them telling us hey we need more money! which we dont have. That's a whole new level of stress right there


----------



## CntryBoy777

It just makes ya want to SCREAM!!!.....well, it makes me want to scream for ya, but I think it is just them "Messing" with your head and emotions.....heck, if they keep demanding more $$....ya will be able to pay cash, out right and won't need their stinking loan. It sounds like they want ya to get to the point ya say "Screw It", cause they don't have any legitimate basis to deny the loan. It is obvious they aren't in need of conducting business....just "Toying" with people's emotions.....absolutely ridiculous!!....


----------



## misfitmorgan

It's not actually the bank this time. The appraisal is done by an independent company and sent directly to the underwriter who sends it to fannie mae...least thats what i gather. But yes makes me want to scream, cry and give up altogether.


----------



## Baymule

Don't give up. Come here and scream, cry and unload. But don't quit.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Well i would love to come there @Baymule but a trip to Southeast Texas isnt in the budget atm  see what i did there?


----------



## promiseacres

was hoping for good news.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I think we all are 


Also all the piglets are doing well except we lost one of the mini piglets to sunstroke. DH found him and he was fine in the house for a few hours and was eating and walking around and it was evening so DH put him back out and he didnt make. Next time they will just become the indoor pet piglet for a few days i guess.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Ok the loan officer told me....

The value is fine. So the appraised value is ok so i wont have to worry about that. There are some sort of guidelines gross adjustments cant be over 25% and net adjustments cant be over 15% or frannie mae says it is unsupported and wont lend on the loan. So basically they are just waiting for more comparables to support the adjustment amounts.

So i think maybe this means the underwriter accepted our paperwork and loan and sent it to frannie mae to get it funded so they could make the loan. Any idea on that part @Latestarter ?


----------



## Bruce

It does seem that way if FM doesn't see it until the underwriter ships the paperwork off. Odd that someone at FM thinks they know the local market better than a local appraiser. Must be a government thing.


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## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> Well i would love to come there @Baymule but a trip to Southeast Texas isnt in the budget atm  see what i did there?


If you can crack a joke, all is not lost. Maybe your _mind_ is lost, but the loan will go through.


----------



## Latestarter

They don't "send the appraisal or loan" to Fannie for approval... Fannie publishes the underwriting guidelines the UW has to follow when working on a loan. If something doesn't match the guidelines, then it gets flagged and needs to be "fixed"... The whole premise you must understand here is that "if the bank can't sell the loan (to Fannie or Freddie) then they won't do the loan". By selling the loan, they get their money back and can then loan it again. Most/many credit unions do not sell their loans and therefore have much more liberty as to what they will or won't loan on or for. Most will still "follow" Fannie/Freddie guidelines, but they don't "have" to.

Based on what you said, I would assume that the loan is fine and the appraisal issue is the final one to be addressed. I am not familiar with the RE market up there so don't know if other comps can be easily come by or not. Your REA "should" be able to assist the appraiser in finding additional comps that will meet the bank's requirements. Hopefully they can get the appraisal issue fixed and then you should be good to go.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> It does seem that way if FM doesn't see it until the underwriter ships the paperwork off. Odd that someone at FM thinks they know the local market better than a local appraiser. Must be a government thing.



The appraisal company is not local per say i dont think, i think they normally do mot of their work downstate which is a completely different market. Not positive though as i didnt see the appraisal only the final number.



Baymule said:


> If you can crack a joke, all is not lost. Maybe your _mind_ is lost, but the loan will go through.



I pretty much always make jokes i have to or i would lose my mind.



Latestarter said:


> They don't "send the appraisal or loan" to Fannie for approval... Fannie publishes the underwriting guidelines the UW has to follow when working on a loan. If something doesn't match the guidelines, then it gets flagged and needs to be "fixed"... The whole premise you must understand here is that "if the bank can't sell the loan (to Fannie or Freddie) then they won't do the loan". By selling the loan, they get their money back and can then loan it again. Most/many credit unions do not sell their loans and therefore have much more liberty as to what they will or won't loan on or for. Most will still "follow" Fannie/Freddie guidelines, but they don't "have" to.
> 
> Based on what you said, I would assume that the loan is fine and the appraisal issue is the final one to be addressed. I am not familiar with the RE market up there so don't know if other comps can be easily come by or not. Your REA "should" be able to assist the appraiser in finding additional comps that will meet the bank's requirements. Hopefully they can get the appraisal issue fixed and then you should be good to go.



Oh i know how the selling the loan portion works. I was telling my mom the problem and she said i thought you were getting a normal loan.....yes mother i am...then why is fannie mae getting involved....*facedesk* Had the explain most all bank loans are bought by freddie or fannie depending on loan type hence the government loan backing on loans and banks being able to do many loans at once. I just dont know the exact steps for a mortgage.

Ok so this is an issue the underwriter found, good to know. There are other comps just not a ton of them to be had which i assume is why they used "unlike" properties to comp in the first place. I will ask if they want my RE to pull some comps but since I paid the appraisal company to do it and they are independent not sure if they would accept.


----------



## Bruce

T-9


----------



## Bruce

T-8


----------



## misfitmorgan

Still nodda, i emailed him this morning and asked, no reply yet.

Red pig had her litter of piglets, 10 total 1 stillborn late stage 4 stillborn early stage....so 5 live piglets. She will be replaced. Normally we give all animals 2 chances but she is full blood siblings to Eva, Jackie and the boar we ate. Eva is sterile, the boar had low low fertility, jackie was never confirmed bred, and now red pig had 50% loss. We are eliminating that entire line from our barn. Eva will go to the butcher after we move. Red will go after her piglets are weaned.

Spot will go to her new owners house when her piglets are weaned. One of spots gilt piglets will be retained by the new owner.

That means we will only have Sarah and Laverne left of the Big Girls. We have the up and coming hereford trio which are looking very well and growing nicely. As well as a possible breeder gilt but she may end up being sold for meat. All gilts from Sarahs litter will be retained as well. A quick look looked like 8 female and 2 male in sarah's litter. Spot had 3 female and 8 male, not sure what Red had yet.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bad news.

The appraiser will not accept the new comparables. The loan agent is atm seeking his managers approval for them to pay for another company to do a new appraisal. Fannie Mae will not accept the current appraisal so will not fund/buy the loan. So we are at a stand still until a new appraisal is gotten, this is sooo nerve racking esp with only 9 days left.


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## Bruce

Might want to put feelers out at the C.U..

Sorry some of your pigs didn't work out.


----------



## RollingAcres

misfitmorgan said:


> Bad news.
> 
> The appraiser will not accept the new comparables. The loan agent is atm seeking his managers approval for them to pay for another company to do a new appraisal. Fannie Mae will not accept the current appraisal so will not fund/buy the loan. So we are at a stand still until a new appraisal is gotten, this is sooo nerve racking esp with only 9 days left.



I'm sorry to hear of the bad news. I hope this loan situation will get resolved soon and you get the fund soon!


----------



## Baymule

This is crazy. All these banking regulations have plunged borrowers into loan hell.


----------



## babsbag

Sorry about the latest news. That stinks.

My son is wanting to buy a piece of land...5 acres... and put a small house on it; one bedroom, one bath. He is single and frugal but would like a few chickens and some fruit trees. The USDA won't allow the land to be valued at more than 30% of the package deal after the house is in place. The land in CA is so expensive that this requirement would force him to have like a 235,000 mortgage, which he doesn't want. He would like to stay below 200,000.  They should be thankful for the people that want to live within their means, but instead they penalize them.  Stupid, senseless regulations. 

And right now the town he lives in is evacuated and the property he wanted to buy is most likely scorched earth. Massive fire going through their right now...47,000 acres and growing.


----------



## Bruce

Always hate to hear about those big fires.


----------



## Mike CHS

This whole thing has to have you a nervous wreck.  People borrow almost as much as you are to get a car of all things.  Those loans don't take an hour to get.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Sorry about the latest news. That stinks.
> 
> My son is wanting to buy a piece of land...5 acres... and put a small house on it; one bedroom, one bath. He is single and frugal but would like a few chickens and some fruit trees. The USDA won't allow the land to be valued at more than 30% of the package deal after the house is in place. The land in CA is so expensive that this requirement would force him to have like a 235,000 mortgage, which he doesn't want. He would like to stay below 200,000.  They should be thankful for the people that want to live within their means, but instead they penalize them.  Stupid, senseless regulations.
> 
> And right now the town he lives in is evacuated and the property he wanted to buy is most likely scorched earth. Massive fire going through their right now...47,000 acres and growing.



I believe it. They have the stupidest regulations, no wonder home buying is down.

I swear I'm over here losing my mind and it is now having other effects like me being perpetually tired and forgetful all the sudden. DH is in a similar boat constantly tired for the past 3 weeks.

We just wanna get on with the next chapter in our life and every possible thing that can go wrong seems to be going wrong.


----------



## RollingAcres

babsbag said:


> They should be thankful for the people that want to live within their means, but instead they penalize them.  Stupid, senseless regulations.



Unfortunately they don't and it's frustrating. When we first started looking into getting a mortgage, they said that we have no credit (we didn't want credit cards and had no loan payments at the time) so no one would give us a mortgage. In order to establish our credits, the banks told us we would need to get credit cards and then get a car loan. We had to trade in a car that had been bought and paid for, to get a vehicle with loan payments. How stupid is that?!!! 

Hang in there...things will work out eventually.


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Unfortunately they don't and it's frustrating. When we first started looking into getting a mortgage, they said that we have no credit (we didn't want credit cards and had no loan payments at the time) so no one would give us a mortgage. In order to establish our credits, the banks told us we would need to get credit cards and then get a car loan. We had to trade in a car that had been bought and paid for, to get a vehicle with loan payments. How stupid is that?!!!


Very.

I suppose if one has no credit (as opposed to bad credit) and enough cash to put down say 50%, the bank would do the loan. They couldn't help but make a ton of money if there was a default. In fact they would make out big time since they would sell the place probably for at least as much as the lendee paid for it and the lendee wouldn't get any of their money back.

T-7 
I HOPE!! But that would require them to find this other appraiser ASAP and they would have to get to work NOW. 

 for you and DH! You both need it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Very.
> 
> I suppose if one has no credit (as opposed to bad credit) and enough cash to put down say 50%, the bank would do the loan. They couldn't help but make a ton of money if there was a default. In fact they would make out big time since they would sell the place probably for at least as much as the lendee paid for it and the lendee wouldn't get any of their money back.
> 
> T-7
> I HOPE!! But that would require them to find this other appraiser ASAP and they would have to get to work NOW.
> 
> for you and DH! You both need it.



I know as of 10am his boss had not replied to his request. If i dont hear an answer by 3pm today i am just going to tell him to take the facking money out of my account to pay for another appraisal and they can give me a rebate or whatever later on if they decide they want to pay for it...which i doubt.


----------



## babsbag

I had to fight to get money back for an appraisal that was never done. The bank decided that they couldn't pay off my solar improvement loan so they cancelled the refi before the appraisal was done but I had already paid for it. They weren't thrilled about giving me back the 500.00


----------



## misfitmorgan

What a bunch of butts.

It's not fair i should have to pay for a new appraisal so i am expecting them to pay for it or reimburse me since they are the ones who picked the appraisal company to use.


----------



## babsbag

It's funny how they are all worried about you having enough money for closing but they sure don't mind making you spend it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I know I was thinking the same thing!!


----------



## Baymule

It's almost like they stay up all night thinking of new ways they can screw you over the next day. Hang in there, this is high stress but you will come out the winner.


----------



## Bruce

T-6


----------



## misfitmorgan

Talked to the loan officer. I cant just pay for and have them order a new appraisal because the appraisal has to be ok'ed first or it won't be accepted by the underwriter and Fannie Mae.

It gets worse.

Scenario 1
If they ok the new appraisal I have to wait for it ot be done and then wait for the rest of the steps to follow meaning we are almost assured to go over the new closing date of the 27th but by how far i dont know.

Scenario 2
If they do not ok a new appraisal, we will be denied the loan. Which is BS because it is in no way our fault the appraisal got messed up. He said he could ask the regional manager to approve chemical bank themsevles to caryy the loan but it is rare and usually requires 20% down which we dont have....(because we had to pay the car lease off )

So do i run over to the CU and submit the other paperwork they need and continue the loan process there knowing that chemical might still come thru with an approval for the appraisal and funding? I did submit the initial paperwork but held off on the fee for running my credit so the loan is stalled out at that point for a max of 30 days....because i am trying so hard to avoid any more hard inquiries.

I dont know what to do, i am freaking out so badly right now i just wanna go home and sleep for days and forget the mess my life has now become. Everything depends on this house and getting this loan thru.


----------



## babsbag

Talk about stress...I can understand wanting to hide your head in a pillow and forget about this. I would pay the credit check and move forward with the CU. Tell them what you have been through and why all the checks, I know when we were loan shopping they took that into consideration. You might even be able to put an explanation on your credit report yourself.  

Who was it that didn't want you to use FHA?


----------



## promiseacres

I agree, try the cu


----------



## Bruce

Tell the current bank you are giving SERIOUS thought to going through the CU now. Make sure they understand that if you do so it is because THEY screwed you. They get NO money if they don't make the loan right? How much are they willing to write off all the work they have done so far? 

And I'm not suggesting you do this as a bluff. Check in with the CU at the same time. And yes, make sure the loan officer at the CU has the whole story of your mistreatment by the bank. Would THEY have made you find "market value" for the animals you sold????


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, the "Bottom-line" is getting A loan to buy the house and property.....so, the first one to put $$$ on the "Barrel" is the one I'm looking for.....if 1 wants to "P*ss Away" business, then I won't stand in the way of them doing so....also, if it is a HUD foreclosure and they are trying to close the loan and hand it over to Fannie or Freddy, then that is another gov't entity.....so, while waiting on them to make a decision, ya liable to be in a rocking chair. Yeh....I'd go to the CU....


----------



## Latestarter

It's a shame you can't sue for stupidity... though looking at some of today's lawsuits, that's debatable... I suggest a detailed but concise/short letter of explanation detailing out all the BS you've been dealt in this process and get serious with the CU. It should also include all the accounts you've been required to and have paid off in the process. I wouldn't worry about informing the present loan officer or potential lender. Just go. If the present lender gets their head out of their backside and gets the loan done, then fine... If the CU comes through for you, then just move forward with them and get 'er done. The original lender's loss. Sorry the LO loses a commission, but he chose what lender to work for.

When they look at your CR and see the inquiries, it should be apparent to them that they are all recent and all due to the home purchase process. Many CU's have an underwriter, but then the loan goes before a loan committee to make the final decision. Just for GP, the credit score breakdown is 680-720 is all considered the same. 740+ is considered exceptional. If you were at 700, the next pull will put you at 697. The magic number is 680. Below that, you have the FHA/VA which allow down to 620, and with exception, as low as 580. Below 580, not much chance of getting a typical mortgage.


----------



## Bruce

T-5 (maybe)


----------



## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> It's a shame you can't sue for stupidity... though looking at some of today's lawsuits, that's debatable... I suggest a detailed but concise/short letter of explanation detailing out all the BS you've been dealt in this process and get serious with the CU. It should also include all the accounts you've been required to and have paid off in the process. I wouldn't worry about informing the present loan officer or potential lender. Just go. If the present lender gets their head out of their backside and gets the loan done, then fine... If the CU comes through for you, then just move forward with them and get 'er done. The original lender's loss. Sorry the LO loses a commission, but he chose what lender to work for.
> 
> When they look at your CR and see the inquiries, it should be apparent to them that they are all recent and all due to the home purchase process. Many CU's have an underwriter, but then the loan goes before a loan committee to make the final decision. Just for GP, the credit score breakdown is 680-720 is all considered the same. 740+ is considered exceptional. If you were at 700, the next pull will put you at 697. The magic number is 680. Below that, you have the FHA/VA which allow down to 620, and with exception, as low as 580. Below 580, not much chance of getting a typical mortgage.



And over 800 you can write the terms of the loan yourself.


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## Bruce

To an extent, I think they still get to set the APR


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Talk about stress...I can understand wanting to hide your head in a pillow and forget about this. I would pay the credit check and move forward with the CU. Tell them what you have been through and why all the checks, I know when we were loan shopping they took that into consideration. You might even be able to put an explanation on your credit report yourself.
> 
> Who was it that didn't want you to use FHA?



I would love to but in talking o the CU further it would take a minimum of 4-5 weeks to get a loan thru them and thats if everything is perfect. The seller will not wait that long.



Bruce said:


> Tell the current bank you are giving SERIOUS thought to going through the CU now. Make sure they understand that if you do so it is because THEY screwed you. They get NO money if they don't make the loan right? How much are they willing to write off all the work they have done so far?
> 
> And I'm not suggesting you do this as a bluff. Check in with the CU at the same time. And yes, make sure the loan officer at the CU has the whole story of your mistreatment by the bank. Would THEY have made you find "market value" for the animals you sold????



The CU knows everything they have put us thru and she thinks it is BS and can't believe they are doing that to us.



CntryBoy777 said:


> Well, the "Bottom-line" is getting A loan to buy the house and property.....so, the first one to put $$$ on the "Barrel" is the one I'm looking for.....if 1 wants to "P*ss Away" business, then I won't stand in the way of them doing so....also, if it is a HUD foreclosure and they are trying to close the loan and hand it over to Fannie or Freddy, then that is another gov't entity.....so, while waiting on them to make a decision, ya liable to be in a rocking chair. Yeh....I'd go to the CU....



It is not a HUD home it is just in the First steps program which Freddie Mac runs after it was foreclosed on. We didnt do first steps but that is why freddie mac owns it atm.



Latestarter said:


> It's a shame you can't sue for stupidity... though looking at some of today's lawsuits, that's debatable... I suggest a detailed but concise/short letter of explanation detailing out all the BS you've been dealt in this process and get serious with the CU. It should also include all the accounts you've been required to and have paid off in the process. I wouldn't worry about informing the present loan officer or potential lender. Just go. If the present lender gets their head out of their backside and gets the loan done, then fine... If the CU comes through for you, then just move forward with them and get 'er done. The original lender's loss. Sorry the LO loses a commission, but he chose what lender to work for.
> 
> When they look at your CR and see the inquiries, it should be apparent to them that they are all recent and all due to the home purchase process. Many CU's have an underwriter, but then the loan goes before a loan committee to make the final decision. Just for GP, the credit score breakdown is 680-720 is all considered the same. 740+ is considered exceptional. If you were at 700, the next pull will put you at 697. The magic number is 680. Below that, you have the FHA/VA which allow down to 620, and with exception, as low as 580. Below 580, not much chance of getting a typical mortgage.



My newest scores i can see are down to 679...joy. I think if i pay down my CC use percentage a tiny bit it will up me over 680. I did use my credit card more then normal at the beginning of this month and then only made the minimum which i dont normally do. I was 705 10 days ago for my median score.


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## misfitmorgan

No news yet on the appraisal so we are definitely gonna miss the closing on the 27th.


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## misfitmorgan

I'm fuming mad...so mad i could drive to the LOs house and punch him in the face and im not a violent person.

I sent him an email asking if there was any update....i get in return an auto reply telling me he will be out of the office on monday and tuesday. So he wont even be back until the 26th and he KNEW it!!!


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## misfitmorgan

I may have done something bad....i emailed the underwriter directly. I was very nice and polite. I still just can't believe he would knowingly be planning on having monday and tuesday off and not say anything to me because he knew dang well we would not be closing on the 27th last week.


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## CntryBoy777

Maybe I'm just nieve and just don't understand things anymore....but, #1, I don't see it as a "Bad Thing"....and #2, if this loan doesn't go thru and the closing isn't on the 27th, then is there another in line with cash to close on the 28th? If this doesn't happen, I would work woth the CU to repair the Hit on the credit and gain approval, then find a place with approval in hand. I know it doesn't make ya feel any better, but I, personally, would be done with their shanigans.


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## misfitmorgan

The problem is there are no other places in our price range atm...not that arn't over an hour away from my job with acerage and shelter for livestock.

There is not as far as i know anyone in line to pay on the 28th but they are within their right to offer it up for sale to the previous interested buyers and anyone else who is currently interested in putting an offer in on it.


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## Latestarter




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## promiseacres

my be it's not meant to be and there's a better property available soon?


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## misfitmorgan

promiseacres said:


> my be it's not meant to be and there's a better property available soon?



Not Likely. The 20acres we rent now we are pretty much being kicked off of and have until august 1st to vacate. So either we get this place and move or we sell all livestock, get rid of all but 2 dogs, and find an apartment to rent.


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## greybeard

Hopefully, the 'other people' get their heads out of their rear ends and it all comes together in the end. 
Good luck with i'd hate to see you have to move in to a dang apt. I've done it and I hated it..it's like livin inside a can.


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## misfitmorgan

It would be completely miserable for us. Just selling the livestock would be miserable, we have traveled many miles all over the state to acquire what we do have and this time of year trying to sell it all we will be lucky to get 1/2 of what we paid.


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## CntryBoy777

I'd rather pitch a tent and lease some acres, than to live in an apartment....but, it does get cold up that way....even living with the animals in a barn is better. If ya moved down here, I'm sure we could work something out with ya until ya could get settled..........we have an empty 16x60' trlr that is vacant at the present time and about 15acres not being used.


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## misfitmorgan

As nice as that would be I doubt i could get the same sort of income i get here and my mom is still going thru stage 4 breast cancer so i need to stay fairly close....well want too. We could camp for a bit but i have an office job and it would be hard to look "presentable" camping 24/7.

We know someone who has a barn they MAY let us rent if it comes down to needing it but they want $300/month and us to buy their feed for their livestock and make hay for them for free. So definitely not ideal as we would still need to get rid of dogs and find a place to rent which around here would be $400/month minimum.


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## CntryBoy777

Well, just keep it in the back of your mind then....just in case...and as long as I'm breathing, the offer still stands....but, I will keep praying for ya and that things will get Better and an ideal situation will present itself....


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you @CntryBoy777 I do appreciate it a lot!


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## Bruce

I don't even know what to say. I have no idea what bureaucratic BS is "forcing" the "will not hold" in light of the facts and circumstances. 

IF they decide to put the place back up after you miss your date NOT due to anything you have done wrong  I guess you can make a "new" offer on the property. Who knows, since you are 1 meter from the finish line on the loan now, they might  "reaccept" your offer? Can you talk to the current "owner" directly or are they behind a "firewall"?

I have to wonder about the $300/mo rent on the barn IF you pay for their feed AND make hay free?? That seems really bizarre. You have no way to know what your monthly expenses would be. They might decide their animals need to eat "filet mignon" every day instead of the cheap "Costco" stuff they get now.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I don't even know what to say. I have no idea what bureaucratic BS is "forcing" the "will not hold" in light of the facts and circumstances.
> 
> IF they decide to put the place back up after you miss your date NOT due to anything you have done wrong  I guess you can make a "new" offer on the property. Who knows, since you are 1 meter from the finish line on the loan now, they might  "reaccept" your offer? Can you talk to the current "owner" directly or are they behind a "firewall"?
> 
> I have to wonder about the $300/mo rent on the barn IF you pay for their feed AND make hay free?? That seems really bizarre. You have no way to know what your monthly expenses would be. They might decide their animals need to eat "filet mignon" every day instead of the cheap "Costco" stuff they get now.



I highly doubt they would accept another offer to buy from us but its an idea. I can not talk to the seller because it is a gobernment entity lol. They just see numbers and also if the place re-lists investment buyers/flippers can just offer cash on it. This house is seriously easily worth 150k or more with some cosmetic work and they know it and it is in a highly desirable area.

They only have 5 cows, 3 pigs and 4 goats so not a lot of livestock and they would be getting whatever ours get.


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## Bruce

Well 5 cows, 3 pigs and 4 goats DO eat! I suppose some of that is what you would be cutting and baling for "free". @TAH's family lives in a travel trailer in Seward, AK. You could do the same behind your friend's barn  They won't even know you are there since after you move in they'll figure you can also feed their animals since you are already out there feeding your own.


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## misfitmorgan

We have already had that experience. We lived in a 1970s travel trailer in a quarry on someones property for the winter of 2015...only place we had to keep livestock and atm DH wasnt working so money was low.


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## Bruce

See, you already know you can do it for a time!


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## misfitmorgan

We only had poultry, 5 goats and our 3 dogs at the time. Around here they dont like when you do that and will send a letter after a few months demanding a occupancy permit or you have to leave the property. So it is a risk.


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## TAH

Bruce said:


> Well 5 cows, 3 pigs and 4 goats DO eat! I suppose some of that is what you would be cutting and baling for "free". @TAH's family lives in a travel trailer in Seward, AK. You could do the same behind your friend's barn  They won't even know you are there since after you move in they'll figure you can also feed their animals since you are already out there feeding your own.


Bruce go read my post on my journal...Might shock you what we are doing!


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## Bruce

I just did! You can loan the trailer to @misfitmorgan 

@misfitmorgan I don't plan for you to live in the trailer behind their barn forever, just until you get your own place. Either the one you are SUPPOSED to be buying now, or another even better place that pops up in a few weeks.


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## misfitmorgan

I'm pretty positive they wont let us live in a trailer behind their place....and we would need to buy the trailer.


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## misfitmorgan

THe one processor emailed me back....it was the processor not the underwriter i emailed...go me for paying attention lol. Anyhow she emailed me and said the underwriter still has some problems with the lease and our cash to close 

So now i dont know if there is truely a problem with the apprasial or just a problem with the lease/cash to close still which i thought was sorted back on the 14th 

I am calling her later today to see exactly what is needed and what is going on.


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## Bruce

You paid off the freaking lease EARLY to please the bank! At a high $$ cost to you!!
I really really want to slap someone in MI.


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## babsbag

What a ride (i.e. nightmare). Well the lease and cash to close might be easier to sort out than a new appraisal but I think that both of them are a farce. There is so much incompetency in every field today it is hard to know what the actual hang up is. I find that many many people in jobs like underwriting don't know how to read rules and regulations and apply them correctly. It is maddening. Hope you get some answers soon.  

Maybe let the seller know that there is a snag before the closing date comes???  It might look good on your part that you are diligent, conscientious, and committed. Doesn't hurt to beg either.


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## misfitmorgan

Talked to the processor. They want something that shows the title or title transfer or a letter as to why i dont have the title yet. I dont have the title yet...but the finance manager isnt in today for the lease company so i have to talk to her tomorrow.
The closing costs and everything else is sorted except the appraisal. I know why the appraisal came in so low. The appraiser couldnt find near by 10 acre comps so that was what the big adjustment that went outside of fannie mae regulations was, the largest he could find was 2.94acre so he adjusted based off that. He could have simply went to a larger area seeing as the comps area he used is about 10 miles square and we are in BFE so really he could have used close to 50% of the whole county and got the comps he needed and saw no marked jumps in value.

The other thing he did is count the two outbuildings and the barn as $0 value. So the place appraised pretty much like a house with a detached single car garage on about 5acres. But he did put pics.....wanna see the barn he appraised at $0?




It is obviously not perfect but no where near falling down or anything. The barn is 40ft x 50ft. The area on the left is a sunken feeder floor(ment for young cows or calves) with 3 separate exits, two into the barn and one outside. The part above the sunken area is a hay loft. On the right side out of the frame is an insulated chicken coop area. The barn has double dutch doors on both long sides that do need some work or replacement. Regardless aside from looking not overly nice and new and pretty it is stable and square with a solid roof so it should have been counted in the value. He also didnt count the fact that it has water and electric run to it.

Anyhow....i got side tracked. The underwriter was not approving the second appraisal because she/he was missing stuff he/she required still like the car title thing. So i have resubmited everything and the processor is asking the underwriter if they will approve the appraisal even though they are still waiting on the title because everything else including cost to close is verified now.

What i find really interesting is that i can find better comps with acerage and the underwriter could but somehow the appraiser couldn't. He is being investigated atm i guess...for what/by who i dunno.

Everyone knows there is a problem with the appraisal. My LO emailed selling agent, my agent and me all at once telling us there was a problem on the 17th. What he didnt tell me was that the hold up on the second apprasial was from lack of some paperwork being given to the processor. I really am starting to have 0 faith in the Loan Officer and he is a senior lender....omg what is a junior like.


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## misfitmorgan

Ok underwriter also wanted me to prove where i got the pigs and hay from that i could sell it. So i have to give them a copy of the lease of the place we rent that we live on to support the hay source which supports the hay sale.

So rental lease and something about the title....then hopefully approval for a second appraisal.


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## Bruce

Yeah clearly that 2,000 sq ft barn with power and water isn't worth a rat's a55. I bet it would cost well north of $30K to build it now if you paid a contractor. 

And they should probably check with the police for the robbery where you stole the market age pigs and the hay just before selling them. What if you had gotten pigs 15 years ago, bred them generation after generation? Are you suppose to have a 15 year old bill of sale for the first 2 pigs???? And records showing every birth and breeding since then to prove where you got the ones you sold recently?  

Note to anyone who wants to buy farm property I guess: See if the bank knows a farm from their elbow, clearly these people don't.

Maybe, just MAYBE they will get this sorted out tomorrow or Thursday??? 
What a bunch of losers. I don't think you could have gotten this screwed up if you tried!
Can I come slap someone now??


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## babsbag

Since that barn isn't worth anything I think you should just figure out a way to teleport it over to my place. Obviously the appraiser has never lived on a farm.

Years back when we were looking at manufactured homes I liked the one we bought because of the very large mud room. (still isn't big enough). There was a young woman there with a friend and a couple of very young children. I heard her say to her friend that the large mud room was "certainly a waste of space". I thought, yeah, just wait until you are living in the country and  your kids are about 6 years old...mud rooms (like barns) are never without value.

Glad that they are at least talking to you.   Where did you get the pigs? How in the world do you prove that? They are crazy.


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## frustratedearthmother

misfitmorgan said:


> wanted me to prove where i got the pigs and hay from that i could sell it


Dang it - I knew I forgot to give you that bill of sale for those pigs!  Want me to mail it to you tomorrow????


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Yeah clearly that 2,000 sq ft barn with power and water isn't worth a rat's a55. I bet it would cost well north of $30K to build it now if you paid a contractor.
> 
> And they should probably check with the police for the robbery where you stole the market age pigs and the hay just before selling them. What if you had gotten pigs 15 years ago, bred them generation after generation? Are you suppose to have a 15 year old bill of sale for the first 2 pigs???? And records showing every birth and breeding since then to prove where you got the ones you sold recently?
> 
> Note to anyone who wants to buy farm property I guess: See if the bank knows a farm from their elbow, clearly these people don't.
> 
> Maybe, just MAYBE they will get this sorted out tomorrow or Thursday???
> What a bunch of losers. I don't think you could have gotten this screwed up if you tried!
> Can I come slap someone now??



I actually think it would cost more then that.

The barn originally had a split loft up top as well hence the ladders to no where. The previous owner had both high lofts taken out because they didnt want to re-deck it and they had cattle and only fed round bales so no incentive to fix. DH wants to  put them back up...if we get the place, not right away of course but he said the small low loft which would have been only for feeding the calves/steers below it will not be big enough for our hay needs......but then also keeps telling me he wants to do all round bales this year....smh.

I did get a copy of the lease sent off.....for proof of the farmland we got the hay off of......no smacking anyone...yet 



babsbag said:


> Since that barn isn't worth anything I think you should just figure out a way to teleport it over to my place. Obviously the appraiser has never lived on a farm.
> 
> Years back when we were looking at manufactured homes I liked the one we bought because of the very large mud room. (still isn't big enough). There was a young woman there with a friend and a couple of very young children. I heard her say to her friend that the large mud room was "certainly a waste of space". I thought, yeah, just wait until you are living in the country and  your kids are about 6 years old...mud rooms (like barns) are never without value.
> 
> Glad that they are at least talking to you.   Where did you get the pigs? How in the world do you prove that? They are crazy.



I know apparently any place he appraises with buildings over 15yrs old he values at $0 unless it is a house or garage. He also put that the expected economical value of the property is 25yrs. Umm so does that mean he thinks in 25yrs the place will be unliveable....or he thinks without maintenance thats when it will fall down or what?

Oh hey all you Southern peoples who build buildings up off the ground.....the two outbuildings are built in the same manner and the appraiser appraised them at $0 for "lack of foundation"...how crazy is that. 

Thats another thing i love about this house....big mud room. He also pointed out one door in the mud room and one side of one window are missing their trim.




frustratedearthmother said:


> Dang it - I knew I forgot to give you that bill of sale for those pigs!  Want me to mail it to you tomorrow????



Thank you but hopefully we got it sorted lol.


----------



## misfitmorgan

So here are some more pictures of the place. I would have shared earlier but the only picture with the listing is one of the front of the house. These are off the appraisers report.

The back of the house. 




Kitchen (Sorry the pic is fuzzy apparently he only got one)




Living room, to the left is the dining umm nook? Thru the french doors is the sunporch, the door to the right is a bedroom. Dont you LOVE the paneling.....haha not! Right behind where he is standing is a built in china/corner cabinet.




Bathroom...it was remodeled a few years ago...they took out the tub 




Bedroom 1




Bedroom 2




Mud room...see the door and window with the missing trim? To left is the laundry area and some cabinets. Down the stairs is another door to ground level outside and then another set of stairs to the basement.




Sunporch. This used ot be a normal 3 season sunporch but someone has it insulated and made into another room of the house with heating and a/c.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> He also pointed out one door in the mud room and one side of one window are missing their trim.


Well there is your answer! That takes a good $20K off the value of the house right there. 

I still wanna slap him


----------



## misfitmorgan

The house hasnt had any updates aside from the kitchen and bathroom, windows, roof, furnace, a/c, some new basement cement, and deck in the past 15yrs so i can see how it would be lower. I mean the main living portion does look like it came straight from the 70s but that doesnt cost much to fix/change so im not worried about it but it can see how it would lower the value.

I also just realized he didnt take any pics of the garage.


----------



## Bruce

Um nothing OTHER than "the kitchen and bathroom, windows, roof, furnace, a/c, new basement cement, and deck".

Gee those are really insignificant updates 
Only about half the cost of the house. The new furnace and A/C probably run $15K


----------



## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> Bathroom...it was remodeled a few years ago...they took out the tub


Anything ever happens to my wife, I'm jerking that big old jet tub out, replace it with a bigger walk in shower, and throwing out the existing small shower and installing a urinal in that unit's place. 
Got my eye on a self flushing model already.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Um nothing OTHER than "the kitchen and bathroom, windows, roof, furnace, a/c, new basement cement, and deck".
> 
> Gee those are really insignificant updates
> Only about half the cost of the house. The new furnace and A/C probably run $15K



Well yes i know lol but i mean as far as aesthetics it looks old on the inside.

I also dont think he noticed the windows were newer and all vinyl.



greybeard said:


> Anything ever happens to my wife, I'm jerking that big old jet tub out, replace it with a bigger walk in shower, and throwing out the existing small shower and installing a urinal in that unit's place.
> Got my eye on a self flushing model already.



I dont want/need a big ole jet tub....just a tub would be nice or maybe a bigger walk-in...those tiny neoangle showers i loathe. Nothing like trying to wash your hair and whacking an elbow on the frame.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Um nothing OTHER than "the kitchen and bathroom, windows, roof, furnace, a/c, new basement cement, and deck".
> 
> Gee those are really insignificant updates
> Only about half the cost of the house. The new furnace and A/C probably run $15K


5 ton Trane central unit for my house (new) in 2009 was <$6K installed and blowing cold air.


----------



## Bruce

We put in a walk in shower downstairs. One "guiding principle" when we had to rebuild half the house was to make it 1 floor handicap accessible in case my wife's RA puts her in a chair. The tile guy wanted to put in a high step over sill, we compromised on one that was about 3" high. There is no reason the "manufactured stone" sill and 2" high "wall" can't be removed and the sill put back down after being tapered so a chair could roll over it. 

There is a bathtub in the upstairs bathroom. Of course no one ever uses it, it serves as a support for the "lay flat to dry" stuff. Haven't bothered to attach the handheld shower support rod nor gotten doors or a curtain rod for it. 



greybeard said:


> 5 ton Trane central unit for my house (new) in 2009 was <$6K installed and blowing cold air.


Even if that matches what is in this house and the price hasn't changed (unlikely) it is still > 10% of the appraised value of the entire property.


----------



## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> 5 ton Trane central unit for my house (new) in 2009 was <$6K installed and blowing cold air.



They had all new duct work installed as well as a new furnace when they had the A/C unit installed.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> We put in a walk in shower downstairs. One "guiding principle" when we had to rebuild half the house was to make it 1 floor handicap accessible in case my wife's RA puts her in a chair. The tile guy wanted to put in a high step over sill, we compromised on one that was about 3" high. There is no reason the "manufactured stone" sill and 2" high "wall" can't be removed and the sill put back down after being tapered so a chair could roll over it.
> 
> There is a bathtub in the upstairs bathroom. Of course no one ever uses it, it serves as a support for the "lay flat to dry" stuff. Haven't bothered to attach the handheld shower support rod nor gotten doors or a curtain rod for it.
> 
> 
> Even if that matches what is in this house and the price hasn't changed (unlikely) it is still > 10% of the appraised value of the entire property.



I believe this A/c unit is only a 2.5ton but i didnt exactly pay super attention when i toured the property lol.


----------



## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> They had all new duct work installed as well as a new furnace when they had the A/C unit installed.


New ductwork is always a good thing (mine was installed as part of the central heat/cooling unit) and tailored for the unit and house size.

No nat gas lines in my area, and no one uses heating oil.
I had 3 choices:
All electric heat and air.
Central air conditioning with fireplace for heat.
Propane for heat with electric air conditioning.
 I chose #1 because the house is very well insulated with 6" walls, I wanted nothing to do with splitting wood, and didn't want a mix of more expensive electric powered appliances and propane powered appliances.
By my house's sq footage, I could have gotten by with a smaller unit, but because of the total enclosed area and volume of air in that area  I needed a larger unit.
(I have no attic space at all--ceiling goes from side wall up to roof peak front to back of the house except the back of the house under the upstairs floor, where bathroom, laundry and lower bedroom is )





The biggest total monthly energy bill I ever had was in Aug 2011 during the worst drought and heat wave in 60 years. Still just $212 for that month which I consider a bargain.


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## misfitmorgan

Luckily this place has Natural Gas. Nice looking place and i would have went with the same. I like the wood heat but i am sick of the mess of heating with wood in the house. Its not even so much the wood itself making the mess it is the ash all over the house, esp on the electronics.

I love your vaulted ceilings and open loft by the way!


----------



## Mike CHS

Your future (hopefully) home is definitely dated but you have what looks like a good base to work with.  Our home didn't have a single room that you could spend a night in for almost 8 months.  We gutted all the rooms and put in large showers rather than tubs.  We did that with consideration for aging which you don't have to worry about for awhile. 

We put in HVAC with ducting in 2015 and it was a little over $6500


----------



## greybeard

the only reason we don't have nat gas to the residence is the national forest doesn't want any of the smaller infrastructure put in. There are several wells within 1 mile of my place that produce raw NG and there's a 10" hp pipeline right down the road that carries it to a refinery about 40 miles away. 
NG is dirt cheap and extremely plentiful here, but ya can't carry it in a bucket....


----------



## babsbag

I have electric AC, propane heat, and wood stove. In CA the propane is cheaper than electric. No natural gas where I live out in the country. I also have propane hot water and stove top, but electric oven. I was planning for the days with no power. We use the wood stove all winter, seldom turn on the heater. I also have an evaporative cooler which is used most of the time. AC is only for days over 105° . Our electric bill would be well over 400.00 if it weren't for my solar. 

That is a nice looking house, love that back deck. Hope that this gets sorted out quickly.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I know it is a bit more pricey up here for HVAC work up here. My parents had all new duct work and a new furnace put in in 2016 and it was $8,000 so i estimate the HVAC for this house was probably around 10-11k, I know the A/C unit price is around 1k alone locally if i assume it has a 2.5-3ton unit.

Thankfully the dated parts are easy fixes. Rip out carpet, take down paneling hoping for plaster but planning drywall just in case and get rid of the dropdown ceiling, then paint or strip all the window trim and built-ins.

For hte basement we are renting a cement mixer and finishing the cement floor. Atm for some reason they only put cement on 60-75% of the floor down there, the other parts are bare dirt. DH also wants to cement floor the garage since it only has mostly dirt...though there is a cement area and boards over a shallow pit where the well head is hidden.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> I have electric AC, propane heat, and wood stove. In CA the propane is cheaper than electric. No natural gas where I live out in the country. I also have propane hot water and stove top, but electric oven. I was planning for the days with no power. We use the wood stove all winter, seldom turn on the heater. I also have an evaporative cooler which is used most of the time. AC is only for days over 105° . Our electric bill would be well over 400.00 if it weren't for my solar.
> 
> That is a nice looking house, love that back deck. Hope that this gets sorted out quickly.




Our current electric  where we live is $80-120/month. That includes all barn lights being on 24/7(there are 18 of those) and a 2,000 watt light DH insistes having on for the outside pigs as well a another 2,000watt light in the garage where DH has his forge and little workshop..which he insists on having on 24/7.

For me i would turn off all those lights if i wasnt outside using them but he just wont do it.

ATM when the power goes out we are fine for heat and cooking since our stove and dryer are propane. We however have no water when power goes out. THe new house is already wired for a generator and has a little house to cover it too...so we just need to buy a generator and no more worries about the power being out.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Got the copy of the Farm lease sent off to the processor this morning. The financial manager is not in again today for the car lease place so have to wait until tomorrow for that. This is killing me.


----------



## babsbag

We have a generator for our well. Can't deal with no water, especially if it is summer and due to a wild fire.


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## Bruce

Those HVAC people in Texas must work dirt cheap.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Got the copy of the Farm lease sent off to the processor this morning. The financial manager is not in again today for the car lease place so have to wait until tomorrow for that. This is killing me.


And NO ONE else can get a copy?? Come on, the financial manager works for someone and people work for him/her. Bunch of incompetents.


----------



## Bruce

Nice looking place you have there @greybeard 

I imagine your installation was somewhat cheaper since you didn't have to duct to a bunch of rooms on two floors.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Those HVAC people in Texas must work dirt cheap.


Non-union and I bid it out. Took a middle of the line bid--not cheapest.
Livingroom, dining room and kitchen are all one big room, floor to peaked ceiling.
Back 1/2 of the house is one big bedroom upstairs.
 Back 1/2 of lower floor is spare bedroom, short hall, bathroom and small laundry.
Not drawn exact or to scale.


----------



## Baymule

$0 value on the barn? What a moron. Insurance valued the 36'x36' pole barn we built at $30,000. We spent nowhere near that much, thanks to my years of scrounging and piling up building materials. That huge barn would cost a LOT to rebuild. Insure it well. I really feel every bit of your frustration, hang in there. This will go through and the place will be yours. But you do have a crazy friend in Texas that will open up a six pack of whip-ass on that LO for ya'.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> $0 value on the barn? What a moron. Insurance valued the 36'x36' pole barn we built at $30,000. We spent nowhere near that much, thanks to my years of scrounging and piling up building materials. That huge barn would cost a LOT to rebuild. Insure it well. I really feel every bit of your frustration, hang in there. This will go through and the place will be yours. But you do have a crazy friend in Texas that will open up a six pack of whip-ass on that LO for ya'.



Lol Thank you Bay!

Yep I couldnt believe he put it at $0 value. The insurance quote i got has a $50,000 allotment for outbuildings including the barn specifically written into the quote. The House has $158,000 coverage, $31,600 coverage for the garage, $118,500 personal property, and $100k personal liability.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> But you do have a crazy friend in Texas that will open up a six pack of whip-ass on that LO for ya'.


You go second Bay  Or maybe you get the LO and I get the appraiser.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yesterday afternoon my LO emailed the realtors and told them a new appraisal was being ordered. So yay for that! 

But the sellers agent replied telling him/us that the seller had sent over paperwork to release us from the contract and refund our ernest money. I called my realtor and talked to him and he called their realtor. They agreed that if we make our ernest money non-refundable they would give us a 2 week extension. This is however the LAST extension they will give they said.

So i went and signed the extension last night and am waiting on the bank to do the second appraisal. Everyone pray it all goes well and smooth from here. The new final date is August 11th.


----------



## Bruce

These jerks better not screw it up again and they better get started LAST WEEK. No more of this on vacation, out for the day, send this one other thing. If they don't hop to it and you lose this place due to THEIR incompetence, I would consider small claims court to recover your earnest money. You certainly have the paper trail to prove how they jerked you around while not doing their job.

I'm really sorry the gubmint owner agency has their heads up their, um, ashes. Any real person selling through a realtor would be pushing their agent to put pressure on your bank to get on the stick and get it done.

T-15


----------



## Latestarter

If I had the wherewithal I'd make the loan for you and you could pay cash for the purchase. So sorry I haven't won the lottery yet  I really hope that you don't lose the house as well as your earnest money.


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## misfitmorgan

Ok apprently the LO lied.


He just emailed and told me..after i signed the extension that no the Credit director denied the request for a new appraisal.


----------



## misfitmorgan

This is seriously enough to make a person lose their mind, this should be illegal.

And the UW still has a problem with my car lease because of some wording the closing paperwork for it she is concerned i still have to pay them another $1,600.

So now the LO is telling me the credit director is just going to ask fro more comps from the same #$#%^$%^ that screwed it up the first time and see if he will adjust his appraisal that he refused to adjust the last time.


----------



## CntryBoy777

......


----------



## Latestarter

Too bad shooting a$$holes for incompetence isn't allowed.


----------



## Baymule

I would think the sellers would see how hard you are working on this and not be so hard line. What goes around comes around. Next time they buy a house they need to suffer everything you have times ten. 

Every time I open your newest post I hope I don't find yet another malfunction, but I do.


----------



## promiseacres

I am so very very sorry 
Praying for a positive outcome!  @misfitmorgan


----------



## misfitmorgan

This whole thing is the biggest mess ive ever seen in my life.

It is just utterly rediculous, i feel like i am dealing with nothing but half-wits who just dont really care. The seller is Freddie Mac so they can only do so much to wait for the buyer in this case.

Hey @Latestarter do you think there is a snowballs chance i could offer on the same house again if we cant get it in time? With a different bank of course. 

Like if i went and got on with my CU and then made a new offer to them to close with the CU in like 3 weeks from the offer date....or would they just not accept my offer at all?


----------



## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> But the sellers agent replied telling him/us that the seller had sent over paperwork to release us from the contract and refund our ernest money. I called my realtor and talked to him and he called their realtor. They agreed that if we make our ernest money non-refundable they would give us a 2 week extension. This is however the LAST extension they will give they said.
> 
> So i went and signed the extension last night



So, by signing the extension, is your earnest money now gone if you don't get the loan?
If so, then the last part of that underlined section doesn't surprise me. They already have what they want..your (un-refundable? ) earnest money, and they may opt to just let the contract die at end of extension and walk away to wait for a new prospective buyer.
That, sucks.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yes my ernest money will be gone.

They already tried to walk away...the ernest money was a bribe pretty much to get us more time....which i wouldnt have done if the LO had not lied to me.


----------



## misfitmorgan

How any bank can so royally screw over someone on a house loan and drag it out for over 2 months and still not give them the loan i will never understand. This is a big bank too.


----------



## babsbag

I don't know what to say...


----------



## babsbag

Does your realtor have a copy of that email that said a new appraisal was being ordered? If I truly did lie then I think that there could be some repercussions for that.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yes both realtors have a copy of it because he sent it to them but he only sent the "didnt get it" email to me.


----------



## misfitmorgan

So this is the new place I am liking.
https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sa...55,-83.125992,44.323357,-84.081802_rect/9_zm/

The location is farther from my work but only by about 2-3 miles more then the other house. It has hoards of fruit trees, grape vines, berries, a nice flower garden, a pond, a few sheds and a work shop. Problem is the acerage was clear cut a few years back and now all but maybe 3 acres of the property is scrub brush, autumn olive, stumps, and left behind trees.


----------



## Baymule

I like the way you think. Already have Plan B waiting in case this whole debacle of incompetence blows up on you. And I bet you'll cozy up to the credit union too. Keep fighting for the first one until it either blows up or you sign on the dotted line.


----------



## Bruce

I would:

Contact the CU for a loan on this house. See if they will contact Freddie on your behalf.
Contact your state's AG and get the law after the bank, they are clearly not behaving in a proper fashion
Contact the BBB about the bank
Get the paperwork for Small Claims Court
If the bank blows this, start a twitter war against them (after the small claims court forces them to refund your earnest money) 
Don't know how you have down payment money for the "new" house if you lose your earnest money on this one


----------



## Mike CHS

I really hate what has been done to you guys and do hope something, even Plan B works out.  I would be mad enough to take what Bruce said into serious consideration.


----------



## Latestarter

It would be useless to place a second offer on the present property. The offer would be turned down because of what has already transpired. As for the newer property, I wouldn't write another contract until you are pre-approved for a loan contingent on contract, title, survey, and appraisal... Any of which, if they go south, are grounds for you getting your earnest money back and getting out of the contract.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I signed paperwork friday to release the contract on the house, it looks like we will be getting our ernest money back.

The bank emailed me yesterday telling me they need yet another thing for the underwriter explaining why my lease for my car was the way it was and apparently the first 5 pieces of paper i sent them trying to prove i did pay off the car are not enough.

The appraiser has not gotten back to them on adjusting his appraisal...yet.

So i dont feel to bad about siging off on the house because even by the 11th we wouldnt have gotten it. This stupid UW is stuck on this f**king car lease and can't seem to get her head around the fact we did indeed pay it off and are not trying to hide a new lease or an old lease or a pending lease.

So to that end....this was all Chemical Bank.

I am heading to my CU today for pre-approval so we can put an offer in on a new place.

In other news, My dad was put in the hospital. Luckily it turned out to be pancreatitis only and malnutrition. They treated him for the pancreatitis and he has to drink ensure shakes a few times a day to try to get his weight up. He eats all the time but has always been skinny and as he gets older it seems he is getting more and more skinny but he eats more then i do and lots of candy/sweets too.


----------



## Bruce

Sorry you lost this house, most especially after all the bank put you through. I would, at the least, write a letter explaining how you were jerked around. Mail it, minimally, to CB regional and national. Everyone up the chain above the people you were screwed by. This loan was SO SMALL compared to what they would consider "average" they should have gone on the "easy" side just to make some money. Instead they locked up some quantity of their salaried employees' time that could have been spent on bigger, more profitable loans and came out with nothing. It cost you the house, several years of age stress and probably no small quantity of gray hair for no reason. 

Is the place in Black River still in the picture? 

I PRESUME you don't have to prove where you got your current cash to the CU but if so, at least you have all the paperwork you had to get for CB. Maybe best to have all that in hand when you walk in. 


BTW, next time some fool asks where you got the pigs to sell, tell them you went house to house, blew them down and collected whatever pigs were inside


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Bruce said:


> BTW, next time some fool asks where you got the pigs to sell, tell them you went house to house, blew them down and collected whatever pigs were inside





So sorry you had to endure all the torture they piled on you...hope you have much better luck with the next place!


----------



## promiseacres

Raising my glass to a better situation!!!


----------



## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> In other news, My dad was put in the hospital. Luckily it turned out to be pancreatitis only and malnutrition. They treated him for the pancreatitis and he has to drink ensure shakes a few times a day to try to get his weight up. He eats all the time but has always been skinny and as he gets older it seems he is getting more and more skinny but he eats more then i do and lots of candy/sweets too



Is he also diabetic?

I drink something called Glucerna in place of my mid-day meal (which I never ate anyway) Sometimes, buy Boost instead. 

(Eats but doesn't gain wt...Maybe he just needs a good dose of dewormer..)


----------



## CntryBoy777

That only means 1 thing....there is a much better place ahead and a better place to do business. It is really a shame the way things are done and handled today and such DumbA**e* actually are considered edumacated....country for educated....


----------



## misfitmorgan

@Bruce 
The black river house is still an option. The realtor is putting together a few listings for us to look at.

Hopefully things will be quick and painless with the new place.



greybeard said:


> Is he also diabetic?
> 
> I drink something called Glucerna in place of my mid-day meal (which I never ate anyway) Sometimes, buy Boost instead.
> 
> (Eats but doesn't gain wt...Maybe he just needs a good dose of dewormer..)



He is not diabetic, thankfully diabetes does not run in our family. I dont know that he has ever been checked for worms but he has been like this his entire life and was in the marines so i imagine someone would have checked there lol. Atm my dad who is 6'1" weighs under 100lbs and his thighs are as big as my forearms. As i said he has always been skinny but this is different.

He does also have many problems from agent orange including balance so i dont think he eats as much as he used too simply because of the effort of trying to get things. Thy have him scheduled for physical therapy to "help" he will probably go but its not going to help.


----------



## misfitmorgan

oh my....the perfect place was just listed 3hrs ago and i am so terrified someone else will put an offer on it before my CU gets my pre-approval done.

17 acres, huge barn 3 other outbuildings, some corrals, decent house with a walk out basement and the most goregous view ever, plus a stream goes thru part of it.....and its only 6 miles from our current place so it is in the area i wanted to stay in.

I might cry 

It is literally everything we were wanting in a place.


----------



## misfitmorgan

oh i forgot to give you all a link to it lol.

The house itself needs work but it could be gorgeous and the view is to die for.

http://www.estately.com/listings/info/1766-e-mill-street#gallery


----------



## frustratedearthmother

"They" say everything happens for a reason....  This might be that silver lining you deserve!


----------



## babsbag

The view out of the living room windows is gorgeous, and the creek is a big plus too. I like the room with the butane lighter handing and handy for the heater; unique feature. Hopefully this one will be the one.


----------



## promiseacres

Prayers it works out!


----------



## Latestarter

Hopefully you'll have better luck with your CU. Hope this one comes through for you! Might make all the pain and anguish you went through more tolerable since you get a better ideal location in the end. Glad you're not losing your earnest money.


----------



## Hens and Roos

wasn't able to open the link(our internet is slow today) but  that it works out!


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> oh i forgot to give you all a link to it lol.
> 
> The house itself needs work but it could be gorgeous and the view is to die for.
> 
> http://www.estately.com/listings/info/1766-e-mill-street#gallery



How did the meeting go at the CU?? 

Have your realtor take you ASAP. The fact that the house is old and needs work is a point in your favor. MOST people want a "move in" place and won't likely look at this unless they are buying the land and razing the house to put up something 3x the size. As long as the foundation is sound and the bones aren't rotted, you and DH can take care of everything in your own good time. 

I like that it is farther from the main highway than the other.


----------



## farmerjan

Good Luck with this one, except for few/no fences, I think this looks like a better place for you.  If you make an offer, it will tie it up as much if someone makes another offer then they will give you a chance to up yours right?  Maybe the CU will hurry up with all the paperwork and documentation you have done.  And maybe they will also be willing to go so far as to make phone calls if they have questions about things like the car lease ---dead issue---- Maybe this is your time finally.


----------



## Bruce

True, there are some things that caused the CB to get all constipated that are gone now. No car lease. Hay and pigs already sold (*). Money already in the bank. The only issue would be the credit score and hopefully the CU understands the "hits" on it are all due to the prior attempt to get a loan from a bunch of incompetents. Sure hope the CU has a real appraiser available. 

* So where DID you get those and what is the REAL market value??


----------



## misfitmorgan

Really busy at work today but i will quickly mention....i found a downside.

Only internet available is thru dish or a cell phone company....ewww...its not like the 100mbps im on now 

The impact of that is....our only tv is youtube and netflix so that may be an issue like in the dead of winter with the long dark nights.


----------



## promiseacres

So.... less Internet isn't a bad things... you can use your library for books, movies and internet.... wish it close to me. I'd buy it!


----------



## misfitmorgan

promiseacres said:


> So.... less Internet isn't a bad things... you can use your library for books, movies and internet.... wish it close to me. I'd buy it!



The closest library with internet for the public is an hour away lol


----------



## CntryBoy777

You can do like us and get a digital antenna for free TV....all we have are cell phones for internet, but ya can get the signal for the computer, too.....a small price to pay for peace of mind and a really nice place.....


----------



## Bruce

No DSL? See how close that comes to the property after you buy, this may be a long term thing. Could be that there is demand that the phone company doesn't know about. DSL was fairly new on our road when we bought and was there only because one of the phone co guys that lives one road over (if you ignore the interstate) suggested it to the boss. They had some extra equipment and the boss OK'ed putting it in. They sold out in a week. Added more, sold out. We finally got 15 mbps a year ago when they added more hardware. 

Check those services and see what you can get at what price. Could be you'll need to make that one of your "required expenses". No, it won't be 100 mbps but you can do video on 15 mbps just fine. Really 100 mbps is WAY overkill for most people unless you are working from home and have to pass a LOT of data up and down ... and usually UP is a killer in that regard, they ASSUME you only want to bring DOWN big stuff and up is a LOT slower. Not always the case.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I did check no DSL, no nodda.

Only options is dish for internet or something verizon hotspot..sprint etc.

Problem is I work online a well for extra income from the house so no internet is a problem there. Dish and verizon etc have internet caps and the highest one in the area is only 65GB a month.

I emailed my current internet company to see if they are going to put lines in over there, from what i can currently see their lines stop 2.5miles from that house.


----------



## Latestarter

So if the internet use is for "business" then you should be able to write off a portion of the cost on your taxes. Right now Hughesnet is advertising their latest and greatest high speed satellite internet (Gen 5) that is @ 25Mb speed and when I checked it was like $49/mo for 25 gigs. Now that was I believe for the first year and the gal said if I didn't order on that call, I would lose some of the savings, so I guess they log phone numbers and addresses. Just so you don't waste it, you could wait, or take the chance that you'll get those savings anyway. Maybe call on DH's phone and give a neighbors address close by. Satellite they don't need an exact address as the service covers states.

Basically, the way it works is the 25 gigs is only counted during "normal" hours... Between 2am and 6am (your times may vary) your usage doesn't count against your bucket. Perhaps you could schedule the bulk of your work or DL movies and such during the "free" hours? Once you max out and your bucket is empty, you can generally buy more (very expensive) or just continue using the connection but it will be at low speed (VERY low speed!). It's a bit more expensive but you could add the Netflix DVD option... it would quadruple the library of movies you could choose from as well. 

Small "price" to pay to live on/own such a beautiful property IMO... Trade offs. I had to deal with it when I bought this place.

Where I lived before I had high speed (100+ Mb) and unlimited usage with no caps and no overages. My highest month of usage was ~150 gigs   I've had to scale back quite a bit  Right now I'm on a 15gig plan that's costing me ~$90/mo. 2 year contract & when it's up I'll be looking elsewhere. As I said somewhere recently, my bucket is empty right now after my son and his family were here for 2 weeks. I'm still here  and for routine stuff like this it's fine... for streaming? not possible at the slow speed.


----------



## Bruce

It won't be a problem for a while @misfitmorgan. You and DH will be too tired from fencing that property for the animals you already have to be spending time watching movies


----------



## misfitmorgan

Cant fence in the winter 

The options for my internet needs at that house atm as far as i know are....
No DSL
NO Cable
No Fiber optic

Exede(didnt come up the first time i checked) - 30GB data cap but no charge for going over(slow service after 30GB) $150/month 12 down 3 up

Hughesnet - 50GB whenever, 50GB off peak(6am-8am) $4 per mpps you go over 25 down 3 up $100 for 12 months then $130 for 12 months

Mobile providers are 
At&T - 1TB/month add 50GB for $10 up to  max of $100 extra dollars a month, 50 down ? up $40/month for 12 months

Verizon - Website to hard to navigate..it keeps trying to take me to fios or DSL instead of wireless internet...i assume a lot of money lol.

AT & T Wins so far lol. Atm I pay $65/month for my internet.


My current hi speed provider that is a small local company replied back and said if i can get other people interested and provide them an easement on the road frontage, they will run the cable over to that place. That's rather exciting.


----------



## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> Verizon - Website to hard to navigate..it keeps trying to take me to fios or DSL instead of wireless internet...i assume a lot of money lol.


It's what we have.  Runs off one of these:






Signal comes off a cell tower. Speed depends how close to the tower you are and how many trees are between you and the tower. Unfortunately for me, the National Forest surrounding me doesn't give a crap about what kind of signal I get..
They do have an unlimited data plan now, that IMO, is fairly reasonable.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I was trying to find the jetpack for verizon but the stupid website just kept taking me to fios Or bundle with cell phone service.


----------



## misfitmorgan

My cable company says it is 10k per 1/2 mile to run the lines but since it is 2-2.5 miles we can get a break on the cost and if i get enough people to do it we can split the cost between all....and if i get a lot of people to do it we will only have to pay $35 each for install into each home and they will cover the cables.


----------



## Baymule

We are only 9 miles from Lindale, 8 miles from Van and 9 miles to Mineola. It's not like we are on the butt end of nowhere. But NO internet or TV. Separate satellites for each, separate bills, mo' money, mo' money, mo' money. But we love living here and wouldn't move closer to town for internet or TV.

This place looks great and maybe you can hook up to the satellites and enjoy that gorgeous view. AT&T bought out Direct TV, so possibly you could get Direct TV and internet both. We have Direct TV, but of course AT&T doesn't offer internet here.  I sat out here for 9 months with no internet except for my phone before getting Hughes Net. By that time, sketchy internet service looked like Manna from Heaven.  When the weather is bad, no TV, no internet. And now that my phone has latched onto my internet, I can't get anything on it either in bad weather. Really? You mean I can't watch the tornado bearing down on me and just have to sit here in the dark wondering?


----------



## babsbag

Satellite TV for us, nothing else where I live and I am 10 miles from the city that has it all. For internet I am fortunate to live on the top of a mountain and can get a local Wi-fi for about $60 a month. Not the fastest...10MB...but no data cap. We did the AT&T hotspot and ate through data at an alarming rate and we don't watch videos online. I used 10GB one night just trying to update my iPhone. Had internet with Clearwire when we first moved here but Sprint bought them and stopped supporting the Wi-Fi.  No DSL or cable out here.


----------



## Latestarter

Wow... so it's not just me... I bought a weather radio specifically for weather warnings. despite having several severe thunderstorm and a tornado warning here, the damned thing has never gone off and warned me...   What was the point is buying the danged thing? I tuned it to the proper channels and checked it multiple times, even during warnings. so it has become a dust collector. My phone signal is not very strong so the NOAA radar site loads slow. If there's a storm, I can't use the computer (Excede) and my TV service goes out as well (DirecTV) as both are satellite dishes.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> At&T - 1TB/month add 50GB for $10 up to max of $100 extra dollars a month, 50 down ? up $40/month for 12 months


That does sound pretty reasonable since you are currently paying $65/month. Do you happen to already have AT&T cell phones?



misfitmorgan said:


> My current hi speed provider that is a small local company replied back and said if i can get other people interested and provide them an easement on the road frontage, they will run the cable over to that place. That's rather exciting.


If you get the house, time to knock on every door between the end of the line as it is now and your new place, plus a bunch more down the road just in case. Assuming most of these people already have internet, I bet they would be ecstatic to switch to high speed cable, no limits. $35 is pretty cheap hookup.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I would definitely go with the AT&T 1TB is pretty reasonable plus we each have 10GB data on our phones we can use. I would rather have no cap and high speed but hey it is what it is.

This internet company normally does free hook-up to the house. I plan on going on a huge internet campaign it is silly they have high speed internet 2 miles away but no service here...for the area yo would think more lines the better. The really bad part is 90% of people in the area have no idea you can get high speed internet out there so the growth is very slow.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, at least it is 2 miles away....here it is just 1/2 mile up the road and stops. There are only 3 total houses on this stretch beyond where they ended running the cable and then there is a far distance to the next house. We really don't use the net enough to justify the expense, so we just use the phones. Tho, if there were work to do on it, then I would probably be more upset about it as you are, but this is most of my internet use here on this site....Joyce uses FB and so it really isn't a big deal with us.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I'm sure it all completely depends on what one is doing online on what you can get by with or not. We had no internet until we moved to the farm because the two places before were not in service areas. No internet, no tv....just our cell phones.

So the bank just called and let me know i have my pre-approval for that new place up to the full asking price. So waiting for the realtor to open up so he can get us an appointment to look at it.

Meanwhile DH walked around on the property yesterday and looked at the big barn...he got some pics but didnt wander to much because he didnt wanna linger. Near as he can guess so far without to much intrusion the big barn is actually 2 stories. Here are a couple pics.



 

 
That is just the upstairs/hayloft area we believe. A driveway goes down to it and it has double doors on both sides so you can drive through the narrow way of the barn.


----------



## Latestarter

When you say:


misfitmorgan said:


> ...the *bank* just called and let me know i have my pre-approval for that new place up to the full asking price.


I'm assuming you mean the credit union? I can't imagine you dealing with another bank after what you've already been through. I'm excited for you guys and that barn looks awesome! Sure would be great if you could re-install/build a second story hay loft. Like you said, that ladder "to nowhere" makes me believe there was one at some point. Why would a farmer put a ladder up there otherwise?


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## misfitmorgan

Yes I ment CU but i've a bad habit of calling all lending/banking places "banks" even DH is like what place are you talking about the credit union or the bank. 

For the barn...maybe i didnt explain correctly.

The floor you see in the picture we believe is the hay loft. its a drivethru hay loft we think..should find out for sure when we get to view the place. Then the floor below would be where the animals live. Let me find a picture.




That pic is actually from a round barn but it explains mostly what i mean. You drive the hay wagon into the hay loft and the animals live below with exits to the outdoors. These barns are all built half in and half out of a hill or have a ramp or bridge up to the loft area.

The ladders to no where....they are not to no where lol. The ladders are used when the hay is stored and the loft is full. You climb up the ladder to the top of the hay stack and toss the bales you need down to the loft floor. Most barns have the "ladders to no where" and you can often find lofts with ladders inside the barn from the drive thru up and these ladders start like 2ft of the ground. That because when the loft is truely full the ladder touched the ground or comes really close and if the ladder wasnt made short then it would break whenever the loft was filled.

If you havnt checked out round barns you should! I love them and want one some day.
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/buildings/barn-round.html
http://nyslandmarks.com/treasures/09may.htm


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## promiseacres

A bank barn!!!


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## misfitmorgan

Got a hold of my realtor and he is checking on when we can go look at the listing...but its gets more interesting.

This property sold 02/2016 for $69,900....the selling agent was my realtor....how ironic is that.

The current asking price is $84,900...which is an increase of 15k exactly. Now one might think to themselves well what a dirty move to own it for 1.5yrs and jack up the price 15k. The current owner put a new metal roof on the big barn which i believe was easily 8-10k.

Lemme try to estimate it out.
The barn looks on estimate about 40ftx50ft with a gambrel roof. So thats 17 sheets per angle of galavume(sp) at $45 per sheet plus ridge cap at $23 per 10ft...materials $3500 including 10% waste/misc/sealant. So if the job was higher-ed out which i assume it was and if it was bid like we used to bid our roofs we did. Cost with labor and materials was $10,500.

If it was bid cheaper and higher-ed out cost was $7,000.

So now i have to figure out what we would be offering lol.


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## misfitmorgan

promiseacres said:


> A bank barn!!!



 Thank you....i could not think of that name to save my life here..


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## CntryBoy777

$81,500-82,500 would be my starting point.


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## misfitmorgan

I think we are going to offer 76.5k....then if he counters we will counter back with higher and we get the livestock trailer that is sitting there and 3% seller assist on closing costs. We can only go 76.5K because we wont have enough to cover down payment and closing costs if we go higher. Down payment is 5% and closing costs will be around 5%.

The other option is to roll closing costs into the loan and we could do the 80k or more but im not sure if the CU offers for us to roll in closing costs or part of closing costs. If they do allow closing cost roll in i believe the max is 3.5% of the loan amount. Which would mean we would only have to do 5% DP and closing costs of 1.5% Which we could then offer full price on if we needed too.


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## Latestarter

Moving the numbers around both sides of the equation is all part of the fun.   I don't know about anyone else, but I'm really "feeling it" here on this one. That (fishable trout) river running through it sold me right off the bat! Sure hope this one breezes right through for you. I'd be thinking widening and deepening that river at some point on the property to form a swimming/fishing/water retention pond. That would be a real boon for irrigation purposes. Do you folks have to worry about water rights up there?

Sounds to me like the seller has it priced to break even... when you factor in the cost of the roof and the commission he/she/they will have to pay the REA (generally 6%), that puts it just about asking price. They may not have a lot of room to move on that price without taking a loss. Since your realtor has already been paid for selling the place once, he/she might be willing to cut their commission just a bit, especially if they are handling both ends of the deal, the seller and you the buyer.


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## misfitmorgan

For this listing the seller chose to use a different realtor company maybe because of some issue causing him to only like for for a year and a half and he/she was a bit embaressed about it perhaps..im not sure.

Anyhow different selling realtor then my realtor.


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## CntryBoy777

My consideration was based on the known purchase price in '16....plus the roof, with a bit of appreciation....factored in with having to find a place to get to and to show the legitimacy of the seriousness of the "Offer" being made, just in case there may be competition in the purchase. Tho, being many miles away, it is difficult to get a feel for the worth of a location. If I were looking with time on my hands, then I would "Low-Ball" on the offer....but, if wanting to acquire ASAP I would offer a bit more at the beginning just so I could get the attention in trying to possess as soon as possible without the wrangling. If you were in their "Shoes" which would motivate you 1st to seriously consider the offer without the wrangling and haggling?


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## babsbag

The heck with the house...I want a bank barn. Don't think I have ever seen one of those in CA. But CA doesn't know how to build barns so that doesn't surprise me one bit. 

Good luck...


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## farmerjan

Amazing how " LONG " it took the CU to get you a preapproval.....That sure tells you something...I would be changing every account I had and everyone I am thinking about ever having, to the CU on general principles... ours here pays interest on the checking if we use the debit card a minimum # of times and spend a minimum amount.  It is 2 tiered, but for the better rate it is 15 times per month with a total of $250 spent.  Equates to  approx.  2.3% interest per year,  on avg daily balance....And no  monthly checking  fees so even a couple of dollars a month is nice.  I usually average $5.00 month over the course of a year due to the balance changes for when we sell cattle or such.  Some months the balance is pretty decent, some barely keep a few dollars between paychecks.  But it is the principle of the thing, they pay us not us always paying them.  Credit card rates are half of what  most companies are,  lots of little perks.

Don't wait to make the offer, have an idea of what you can do, and since the realtor sold it a couple of years ago, they might know of any  quirks and be able to guide you through any rough patches.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> So the bank just called and let me know i have my pre-approval for that new place up to the full asking price.


Gee, that took what 3 days??? Add that to the letter to the chain of command at Chemical Bank. Tell them that their inept employees cost them money (the time spent by their salaried people) and lost them money, your closing costs. If the CU can do it in 3 days, the CB shouldn't need 2 months to NOT get it done.

If you buy this house right off, the selling realtor MIGHT lower their commission since they didn't have to do much work? Not the same as showing it and showing it and showing it for months on end until someone finally buys.  Or maybe they won't, Some are easy some are hard, 6% either way 

I was going to guess there was no floor above in the barn as shown. A post and beam barn would have mortises in the beams to hold the floor beams. There aren't any. My barn is like that, PLENTY of height for a floor above but no physical indication there ever was one. High roof built to support snow load I guess. BTW, you are missing a brace on that center post in the second picture


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## CntryBoy777

Well, it sounds like ya are setting on "Ready" finally, now for the "Action".....seems the water is smoothing out after facing the rapids....hope it goes smoothly and quickly for ya....


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## Baymule

I have a good feeling about this. You have all of us pulling for you!

I have to ask-why do barns up there have board sided outsides with such large spaces between them? It's COLD up there and the barn walls would be blowing a gale through there! I see that a lot in barn pictures up north. As cold as it gets, I'd think the cracks would at least get covered by a batten board.


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## misfitmorgan

@Bruce the high roofs and giant open space was actually for loose hay, as you might imagine loose hay takes up way more room then baled but most people didnt have machines to bale when there barns were built so it was just a giant hay stack.








@Baymule 
Some people do cover the cracks with batten board but honestly the barns stay warm and cut 90% of the wind even with those cracks lol.

We will not be getting the property on Mill St.


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## Mike CHS

Is the Mill Street property the first one or the one with the barn?  It's getting hard to follow.


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## Bruce

No evidence of a hay trolley in my barn either. So they must have been pitching it off the wagons in the drive bay into the mow.

I would think there would be a lot of snow blowing in the sides of that barn. I get snow blowing in where the doors aren't tight.


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## Mike CHS

The Amish barns around here are like that but we don't get snow.  They use fresh milled (wet) lumber and it shrinks quite a bit as it dries.  Some go back and put battens on but most don't bother.


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## misfitmorgan

@Mike CHS Mill St had the bank barn.

@Bruce many of the trolley's were taken out of most barns and the hay forks were definitely taken out cause no one want a 75lb+ pointy stabby thing falling from the sky. The alternative to the claw and trolley system was the loose hay elevator.



There is the tractor, hay wagon, and loose hay elevator that was used to pick up hay from the field and sometimes ot put it into the loft if it was a low loft.

Some snow blows into the barn but not enough to make a different, not like mountains of snow.


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## misfitmorgan

The mill street property is nice and the view is gorgeous. The house needs major updates, a new furnace, part of the foundation on the enclosed porch fixed, ingress/egress windows in the two basement bedrooms(only ones in the house), new windows and a new roof. The garage needs a new roof and a window fixed. Both the house and garage need new siding and possibly some insulation work. The barn needs some foundation work. All out buildings besides the barn need to be torn down, the corral need to be taken down. So that means a house the garage and a barn and we would need 100% new fencing. That would be ok but with all the issues a CU is not gonna mortgage it. The current owner bought this place with cash for 70k without any type of appraisal. The actual apprasial value would only be around 50k even with the new barn roof and he is asking 85k. The realtor brought up maybe doing owner finance but even if we did that we would have a high interest rate and by the time we fixed the issues we would have well over 130k into the place and it would still only be worth 85-90k. So i love the view but it just doesnt make sense.

So tomorrow we will go to the other place......this one
https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sa...056,-82.154389,43.956247,-84.06601_rect/8_zm/

Not my favorite location but do-able. I can get hi-speed internet there so thats one problem solved. The 2 car garage has a full cement floor and room for a workbench or some deep freezers. There is a breezeway/mud room, two livings rooms a small back deck. There is a large workshop, a funny building they are calling a barn which is not, and a kinda odd carport turn into a wood shed thing. So livestock shelter is needed. The acerage was clear cut so it is left with stumps, logs they didnt want and over grown with autumn olive and russian willow(luckily goats eat that like crazy) so it would need to be slowly cleaned up. The soil needs amendment but that need is from the property being basically woods until 2yrs ago. The house needs updates and the basement has a small amount of water in it. The upstairs of the house is 1600sqft and the basement is 900sqft.

The property has a pond, grapevines, an orchard, rhubarb patch, asparagus patch, berry bushes and some nicer landscaping around the house.

So we shall see.


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## CntryBoy777

I don't blame ya to keep looking after finding all that out...you'll find the right place....


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## babsbag

That sounds like way too much to invest in that property; I can understand walking away. At least now you are approved for a loan so it is just a matter of finding the right one.


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## misfitmorgan

i was approved before but at least this is with the CU lmao.

Set to look at that house at 4:30 today....and of course the realtor will be showing it to two other people early next week.


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## Mike CHS

That one looks like it has been taken care of.


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## babsbag

So you have about 24 hours to make up your mind and get in an offer. No stress. Good that the realtor told you.


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## Latestarter

Amazing how actuality completely blows away first impressions...   Sorry the Mill St property turned out to be such a nightmare. Don't blame you in the least for the decision to not proceed. The view and stream would have been nice with the land but makes no sense to have to invest more than what it would be worth after doing so. Really surprised the previous owner invested the money on the barn roof when there were more important things needing fixed/updated... Maybe he didn't plan on living there and just wanted the land and barn? Best wishes to find something that's do-able/workable and acceptable.


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## Bruce

I agree on the Mill St property. WAY too many major repairs. You can live with paneling for a long time but that sounds like a gut plus the foundation issues. And no outbuildings other than the barn (after you tear them down). Getting not much for your money.

I had not realized that the Mill St property was the one without HS internet, I thought that was the F-41 place. It looks like there is a big barn there along with another good size building nearby.


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## Baymule

When one door slams shut, another one opens. And if internet is a major consideration, then i can attest to satellite internet. It beats nothing, but barely.


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## misfitmorgan

Mill Street place would have been satellite or mobile internet....the f 41 place had high speed.

Suppose to meet the realtor tomorrow, we will be putting an offer in i believe. Asking 64k offering 62k. Two other are looking at it next week but it has been on the market for 8 months now, they however drop the price from the original. Original price was $87,500 and last drop was 6k on the 24th.


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## Bruce

Good luck! I hope it turns out to be what you want without structural issues.


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## farmerjan

With all the delays on the other property, how is it going where you are currently?  Weren't they threatening to oust you ?  Hoping that it is staying relatively quiet there until you can get GONE.  
I agree with your decision to walk away from the other with the issues.  
Sure wish I could find a 65,000 property around here with 11 acres.... most with 2 acres are in the 90s.  The 75 acres my son bought 2 years ago was 220,000 and then the house that went with it on 2 acres, not available at the time, he bought a year ago for 100,000 and the reason for buying it was the water is on the house piece, the right away through the house piece to the land and just not having to deal with any hassles. House is a rental right now.  It was bought because most land is 5,000 plus an acre and that was about 3,000 so a decent buy.  Looking at it as investment, not where he wants to end up but it backs up to the current county landfill (over the hill behind it)  and may very well be a property the county may need in the next few years.  He has put a price on it of 400,000 in case someone comes looking here in the next little bit.  There is a 22 acre piece that has just gone for sale that we have rented for years, across from another place we have had for 25 years that was just sold, and they put 249,000 on the 22 acres..... totally crazy in our opinion, but some dumb.... will come from somewhere with money an buy it.  It is worth about half that in our opinion.... The piece across was sold for 325,000 with a BEAUTIFUL house and perfectly restored bank barn and pretty good fences  25 acres.  House would cost 250,000 to rebuild today.  Prices here are crazy.


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## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> Sure wish I could find a 65,000 property around here with 11 acres.... most with 2 acres are in the 90s.



Sold 17.4 ac here in 2015, some infrastructure, highway frontage, 100 yr flood plain, fenced for cattle, NO livable house. I asked $65, bidding went crazy in the first week, and I accepted $120K and turned down $10k more from a bidder that  wanted me to owner finance.

(At first I thought it a case of city folks wanting to get out into the country just being crazy, but finally realized they were all bidding for the privilege of having me as a neighbor, what with my glowing personality and enviable good looks.)


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## Bruce

Well YEAH! They also know what a wealth of information you are. Certainly worth the price.


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## misfitmorgan

This place at 64k is only because it is not really close to anything and lots of other better places for cheaper were available. Now there is only this place, mill street, and the place we lost...thats the only places under 100K with more then 5 acres of land. That spans two counties so its not a small area.

This will give you an idea
https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sa...164787,44.493322,-83.642693_rect/10_zm/0_mmm/
First 2 listings are trailers to old to get a mortage on
3rd is the place we lost
4th is an old farm, we looked at it all buildings need to come down except a pole barn..that includes the house
5th is 5 acres for 64k
6th place we wanna put an offer on
Right after that it starts going up pretty steeply.

Meanwhile 2 miles from my mothers is 40 acres with a nice house and old hanger for 84k


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## CntryBoy777

Well, that sounds like it may be worth the move......at this point in time.....being close may be something to consider, a small sacrifice for something that may mean so much, not too much further down the road.....worth thinking about anyway.


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## misfitmorgan

I cant live that far from my job.


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## Baymule

Land and home prices here are stupid high too. My question is, where the heck do these people work that buy million dollar homes? Toss in some acreage and the sky is the limit.


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## Mike CHS

It doesn't help you but I'm happy we got our place for what we did and hope you can do the same.


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## OneFineAcre

This a cliche but it Is true 
There are 3 things that determine a property's price 
1 location
2 location
3 location


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## OneFineAcre

My house is a dated ranch with vinyl siding 1700 sf

It's in east Wake county which is the Capital county of NC

5 acres
$200k


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## babsbag

Mine is a 1700 sq ft 2008 manufactured home on 5 acres in No. CA. 175,000.00 

I paid 63,000 for the 8 acres I bought next door to us with nothing but a well. 2.5 acres are in a seasonal stream bed and not usable.


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## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> I cant live that far from my job.



There is that /\ problem of course.  The polygamy we often find ourselves in causes us a lot of anguish that interferes with our life's real goals..married to a flesh and blood  spouse and married to our job as well. 

On the one hand, we rationalize that the latter provides us with the means to provide for the former and ourselves and other family, and provides the means to get what we want out of life--whatever that goal is, but it also anchors us down and limits our options. 

I can't offer any advise really, as I realize that not having that job would severely limit getting a loan, but I will say that far too often, I see people put off/delay/postpone making the jump to get their life's real goal, and one day wake up to find they have waited too late in life to do it, or after finally doing it, so wishing they had done it years earlier.


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## Latestarter

greybeard said:


> ...far too often, I see people put off/delay/postpone making the jump to get their life's real goal, and one day wake up to find they have waited too late in life to do it, or after finally doing it, so wishing they had done it years earlier.



Hence my screen name GB... Seems  any time I offer up anything I jinx you so I've give a final wish that you find what you're looking for or at the least something that you can "live with" and make into something better.


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## Baymule

Waiting on the latest episode of "House Loan" soap opera.


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## misfitmorgan

Sorry I've been gone a few days.

@farmerjan They still want us out but so far have not served us eviction papers and still accepted my rent money so hopefully they will let us stay until we get a new place.

@Latestarter You do not jinx me, chemical bank just really sucks at their job apparently and couldnt find their own butt with two hands.

In other good news the title for the car showed up finally..yay!! 

The check from the title company for our Ernest money also showed up....yay!! 

Lastly we went and saw the house and made an offer on the house. We ended up offering 60K, there is a competing offer on the house from another buyer but the realtor said dont worry about it they are FHA and were asking for seller assist. We are still going 5% conventional with no seller assist. Ironically the house was under contract once already. I guess it failed FHA inspection and the buyer/seller didnt want to have things fixed. 

I'm not to worried because FHA is picky picky and the house was build in 1945, we are aware there are going to be problems. Atm the house needs a door replaced and a door fixed.

Basement windows dug out and replaced atm the dirt is right against very old glass block "windows" and with all the rain it is obvious by the floor puddles that it is leaking into the basement. We are quite confident the water is from the windows because there is another portion of the basement with dirt floor and no windows and it is completely dry in there from what we could see. The cinder block walls are also un-painted and show no signs of causing any large amount of moisture. We will seal the walls for sure but the masonry looks fine. The replacement windows will be ingress/egress in case we ever want to put bedrooms in the basement for resale or anything. Enlarging the windows means we will need to remove one more lower row of blocks and dig down and install a window well.

The house does have all single pane windows but all windows have storm windows installed on them so that helps until we can replace them. as far as insulation goes the house seems to have really really good insulation. It stays cool in the house even on hot days and you can barely hear the road noise in the house which when outside you have to yell over.

For road noise we would put in a small burm and hedges or a fence or some sort of sound dampening. Road noise is only a problem in front of the house, as soon as your past the bac of the house and down the hill in the backyard you dont hear the noise anymore.

The only other immediate fix needed is a small holes were the garage addition and mudroom/breeze way meet will need some some tar. We would also be planning a metal roof install within the next 5yrs.

The really really odd thing. Someone put white vinyl siding on the house and then decided they didnt like the white so painted it that poo brown with the darker poo brown shutter.....those colors are going for sure. I will see if it is possible/feasible to strip the paint off or if we should just paint over it. Definitely not staying that color anyhow. The color doesnt look so bad in the pictures, in real life it is a really unattractive color.


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## misfitmorgan

I got busy at work in the middle of writing the post sorry @Baymule


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## Bruce

OK, stupid question. How big is the house, meaning footprint and does it happen to be a nice rectangle or square? Asking because IMO window wells are a request for trouble. Could you jack the house a foot or 2 and put in a pony wall? We did that at our prior house and like you plan, put in legal size egress windows.


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## Baymule

I had to google egress windows. this web site also solves the window well trouble with the covered window well.
http://www.egresswindows.com/


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## misfitmorgan

We would definitely be doing covered window wells.

Jacking the house would not be feasible. The first floor is the house itself is 1609sqft, plus the mud room and attached garage. There is also the secondary problem of the main house was a rectangle and they added on a family room in back and a back deck and also added onto the other end of the house to add a third bedroom.

From what i can tell so far it would be a short window well, the top 2-3 courses of brick are above grade in most places around the house. We are hoping to put the egress/ingress windows on the non-loads bearing walls so we dont require any extra header so the top 2-3 blocks being exposed means we may get away with just grading and no window wells. It is certainly not going to be a before winter project. The number of exposed blocks atm is a guess because when we go there i keep forgetting to look.


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## Bruce

Yeah they make window well covers. 
Yeah they are plastic, yeah they break.
Yeah they are difficult to seal against the weather. ESPECIALLY if you expect to move them when you NEED to exit through that window.

But clearly raising this house is out of the question. It was just a thought. Minimally, if there IS slope away from the house, I would put a drain in the bottom of the window well. At least that way any water that does get in will drain away rather than down the foundation wall. If you do that, you can skip the well covers other than during snow season.


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## misfitmorgan

They actually now have all sorts of different types of wells and covers for them....not just the old metal pipe looking stuff and a thin plastic space ship looking thing. Most of the better one have plexiglass and frames, hinges, and rods like the kind that hold up your car hood for you. They have come a long way.

Definitely cant lift the house lol. Ideally we would be putting 4-6" of gravel in the bottom of the well hole which would be graded and on top of graded dirt, then the well, a few more inches of gravel, then back fill. The top of the gravel would be a few inches below the window sill.


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## misfitmorgan

They accepted our offer on the house. I signed and returned the papers a little bit ago. New closing date is September 19th i believe.


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## Mike CHS

Let me be among the first to say Congratulations!!!


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you @Mike CHS


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## CntryBoy777

WOW!!!.....way to Go....hoping it takes place without a single hitch, too.....


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## promiseacres

super excited for you!!!


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## Hens and Roos

that's great!!


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## Bruce

Whoo hoo! May the wind be at your back on this one! I think all the financial institutions have "approved" appraisers they use, hopefully the CU doesn't use the same fool as CB.


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## farmerjan

Congrats and with all the background work you have done in the past, hopefully they will be able to do their job in a professional manner and you will be able to QUIETLY go about your business and get this done.  Get moved and be able to get things in some sort of order before you get into cold weather.


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## goatgurl

so happy for you kiddo.  after all you have had to go thru for the past few months this was just to easy.  youall have lots of time to make it your own.  just enjoy it and fix things as you can.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you everyone! 

Waiting for some paperwork from the seller for the bank then things can get rolling. I have the car title now so they cant complain about that. Even if they use the same appraiser the CU doesnt sell any of their loans so dont need to worry about fannie mae guidelines. I believe we have enough cash for closing atm but i have not gotten an official number as of yet. I'm thinking having a bit over 10% of the total purchase price for the place is going to be enough.


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## Bruce

I would think 10% down would be fine, don't forget to blow the mortgage insurance when you have 20% equity.


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## Latestarter

I think she was planning on 5% down... the 10% is to cover everything at closing.


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## misfitmorgan

@Latestarter  is right.

5% down and closing can be 5-7%

I will have between 11-12% at closing total just in case.


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## Latestarter

Typical closing costs on a typical home purchase loan are right about 3%... That said, the typical home loan is pretty well north of a quarter mil... For very small loans, the closing costs as a percentage are higher as many of the costs are "fixed" costs (appraisal, title fees, lawyer fees, etc.) So a $450 appraisal on a $45,000 loan is 1% before anything else is even considered. On a $250,000 loan, that same appraisal is .18%


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## Baymule

I am so happy for you! I hope this one goes off without a hitch. Get moved, get settled in and get ready for winter. Then you can post pictures of all your animals in their new home!


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you much @Baymule I hope it goes well and quick too.

Very true @Latestarter thats why i am trying to get a bit extra just in case. I know total costs on the other place were right around 6k for a $52,725. This one the loan will be for $57,000 so im hoping its still only 6k or less but we should have more just in case.

Still no paperwork back from the seller.


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## Baymule

It's Monday morning! This is the week things go your way!


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## misfitmorgan

Thanks Bay!

Nothing new to report on this end. The asset manager was on vacation it seems. But the realtor told me she(asset manager) would get back to "us" as soon as possible with their response... 

Umm response to what i thought they already accepted the offer which is why we signed the seller Agreement.


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## Latestarter

The REA might have gotten a verbal,that your offer has been accepted, but no sellers sigs yet? Seller agreement? or Purchase offer (contract)? Not a done deal until THEY sign the agreement... Both parties have to sign for it to be a binding contract. Is she going to get the sellers to sign when she returns from vaca?


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## misfitmorgan

Thats the hold up...the sellers signature. She is back now. I signed the Seller Agreement....now waiting on them too.


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## Latestarter




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## promiseacres




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## Bruce

What is an "asset manager"??

Good luck!!! I want to start a countdown


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> What is an "asset manager"??



A manager that "sets" on her A**     ..........DUH!


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## babsbag




----------



## misfitmorgan

Seems like it lol.

Basically far as i know it is someone in charge of checking with the foreclosure company if they will accept an offer on a property and is the go between between the company and the companies realtor.

If they pull any BS now that they already accepted it we are gonna do seller assist for closing costs.


----------



## Bruce

Ooh-Kaaaay.  Didn't know this was a foreclosure as well. Too many people in the middle with those sales it seems!

You are a Baaad girl @Baymule. Oh wait, we already knew that


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yes it is a foreclosure as well.

The realtor i am working with is the sellers realtor.

So THE realtor put the paperwork back and forth...on the other side of him is a foreclosure company that has multiple people.


----------



## Bruce

Does your realtor take the paperwork you give him in his left hand and put them in his right hand to get them to the seller's realtor?


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> You are a Baaad girl @Baymule. Oh wait, we already knew that



I'm not all bad....... I keep my chin on the curb-it keeps my mind out of the gutter!


----------



## Bruce

Out, but very VERY close


----------



## Baymule

We haven't heard anything in days..... whazzup?


----------



## misfitmorgan

I was trying to wait until i had solid information but i will give an update now.

I had signed and sent back the 60k offer for the seller to sign. Several days went by and no signed purchase agreement was returned to me. So on wednesday the realtor texted me and said they want 62k....i was like but i already signed the agreement and i thought they agreed to selling it? He told me it had something to do with some other boss or entity of some sort.

So I told him to offer back to them 64K with 3% seller assist. He said ok he would put in the offer. Then on friday he came back asking if i was sure i wanted that offer because they dont normally do seller assist...i told him yes we were pretty firm on our offer and highlighted why the property isnt perfect for us.

So again just waiting to hear back. Dunno why we keep finding properties with issues.


----------



## Baymule

The perfect property would have a price tag in the stratosphere. So you have to scrabble around for what you can afford and then mess it up to suit yourselves. Our place wasn't perfect either but it's getting there.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, it sounds to me that the sellers are hoping to sell, instead of wanting to sell.


----------



## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> So again just waiting to hear back. Dunno why we keep finding properties with issues.


Not neccessarily issues..sounds like the normal way property is bought and sold.  
The normal way it works is the seller  and his realtor puts an asking price on the property, but that is never written in stone. It's just the minimum the seller wants or a starting point for the bidding. Sellers and their agents rarely accept the first or even the first couple of bids, and they would be fools to do so. 
IF, the seller's agent begins getting numerous calls about the property, they assume there is a good market for the property, and will raise asking price or decline to sign a contract.  
On the inverse side of the coin, buyers rarely make their first offer at the max they will go either. They'll lowball a figure below asking price and hope the seller bites. 

The original asking price for the last piece of property I sold was met the day it was listed, exceeded the next day. On advice from my agent, I just sat on it, didn't sign a contract and told her to inform each bidder to re-submit their bids.
Seller is never under any obligation to sell at asking price until both parties sign a legal contract, and even then, either party can back as long as all legalities are met..usually in the form of some monetary penalties. 
The initial bidder in my case was absolutely livid that I didn't accept her offer and was under the mistaken impression that I HAD to. Verbal agreements don't pass muster in real estate sales, and signed contracts aren't always iron-clad either.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Well, it sounds to me that the sellers are hoping to sell, instead of wanting to sell.


Interesting since it is a foreclosure. I would think the bank would want to unload it as long as they got a reasonable price. At the moment the bank is on the hook for things like property taxes and keeping the place in reasonable condition. Costs them money every day/week/month.


----------



## misfitmorgan

@greybeard I do understand that is how real estate works, i am working under no false assumptions.

The issue i have is they told the realtor the offer was accepted at 60k and even sent over the sellers agreement for myself and the realtor to sign. Then over a week later they came back with....no we need 62k.

If this was a new fresh listing yeah I would understand them dragging their feet but this place has been listed for almost 9 months. They were in contract once already but FHA inspection didnt pass the house and the seller wouldnt fix anything because it is a foreclosure. 

The new offer is their full asking price of 64k but we want seller assist of 3% would would still give them $62,080 which is just slightly over their current offered price of 62k. The entire reason for the seller assist is because them dragging their feet is going to push us into another month of rent payment plus another 2 payments on my personal loan, which will make us short for closing by like $100 according to my estimates.

Could we do it without the seller assist....probably, would it be way easier with it...heck yes.


@Baymule The first place we were in contract with is far closer to what we need/want then the new place. I dont want something perfect but the closer the better. DH and i were discussing and this new place is going to take approx 12k to get the large part of the pasture work done....aka clear out the stumps and cull trees that were left behind from the logging. After that there is the holes to fix, fencing to put up, pasture to plant, shelters to build, etc.
The house needs updated and basement leak fixed, the house will need a new roof within 5yrs...we are hoping for metal. There is some water damage in the garage that we are not sure is fixed yet. 
The current outbuildings are suited for a work shop, wood storage, and feed storage. They are not really any suitable shelters for livestock for winter. I think everyone will be put where we can fit them until spring.
If we didnt always do everything backwards like buy the livestock first.....we wouldnt have so many problems lol.

Also i should mention we lost one of our new ewe lambs that we bought earlier this year. No obvious signs of anything wrong with her, it has been very very hot suddenly here. Our guesses are heat stress and then harassed by the goats or possibly just the goats got her. We planned on separating them when we moved but we also planned on being moved out over a month ago. So we either need to get the ball rolling on moving or we need to figure out how to separate them.


----------



## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> The issue i have is they told the realtor the offer was accepted at 60k and even sent over the sellers agreement for myself and the realtor to sign. Then over a week later they came back with....no we need 62k.


Not at all unusual. 
They just wanted to make sure your offer was serious. Testing the water..It has to start somewhere, and all serious sales begin with a potential buyer signing the paperwork--meaningless until the seller signs. 

On every offer/bid I had, my agent told each one, "sign the agreement and we'll go from there". 
At one time, I had 5 different agreements in front of me to pick from and sign. I held off another week and picked from a different set of offers, eventually signing one that was 5 figures beyond what the highest of the previous 5 was.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Alright....here it is unusual.

No one else here has even heard of anyone here doing that. They do not have any other offers right now. I would think the pre-approval for 20+K over the asking price that i sent with my offer would mean I was serious.

The seller and buyer realtor is the same person, who is a friend of my parents ironically so he knows the offer was serious.

Here except for maybe in very large cities or very highly desirable locations if you are told they accepted the offer and your sent seller agreement to sign...thats it. I live in a very low density population area, it is only desirable because of tourist and where i work....even so this house itself is not in a desirable location as it is almost 30miles from my work and where the tourists go. Hence why it has sat for 9months.


----------



## Bruce

I agree @misfitmorgan, if you are told the offer is accepted, it is accepted unless you don't sign the agreement. Having the offer DELIVERED to the seller is a whole different kettle of fish.


----------



## Baymule

Sorry about your ewe lamb. I hate losing animals. I know it is part of farming, but I never like it. You will soon be building  a new pen, new fences, on your own place.

Yes, the place needs work. Yes, it needs to be poked and prodded to evolve into just what you want, the way you want it. But the major part is that it will be YOURS. You will work hard and spend money. It will be a great feeling when you finish putting up YOUR fence around YOUR land. All the improvements you make will be well worth it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The seller is the one who sent the seller agreement to be signed. I still am not sure what happened there.

Anyhow...still waiting.

Thanks @Baymule it definitely sucks.


----------



## Latestarter

What really sucks is that the only properties you can find that "might" fit what you're looking for/need are foreclosure properties. Unless you have the cash to buy it outright, dealing with banks is a royal PITA.


----------



## Bruce

Seems to me that if the seller is sending said agreement, they should sign it BEFORE sending it to you. No deal until you sign and return it. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Our offer was accepted.

New Seller Addendum arrived in my email last night as long with a few other forms. Everything is signed and emailed back to the realtor.

We did retain the closing date of 09/29 instead of moving it ahead. Seller will give an extension if needed.


----------



## promiseacres




----------



## CntryBoy777




----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> We did retain the closing date of 09/29 instead of moving it ahead.


Was that to make sure you had time to get a bit of extra cash?


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Seems to me that if the seller is sending said agreement, they should sign it BEFORE sending it to you. No deal until you sign and return it. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days!


Here, and with all I've dealt with, the seller signs last. It's 'his' property and they don't want to lock themselves into contractual agreement in case a better offer comes in at last minute..

Sounds like things are looking good for this one to close pretty quick!!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Was that to make sure you had time to get a bit of extra cash?



Actually the opposite kind of.....

We had the option to move the closing date out to 50 days from the date of signing which would have ment closing on 10/10, we opted to keep it the shorter closing date with is actually 39 days from today.


----------



## babsbag

So Bruce can start the count down again. Hope that this one goes all the way to take off.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Me to Babs...me too.

@Bruce T-37

I think i screwed my counting up lol
Closing is September 29th....which is 37 days yes?


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## Bruce

I can only count to 20, as long as it is before I get dressed or after getting ready for bed 

So you will now be waiting for the appraisal??


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> I can only count to 20, as long as it is before I get dressed or after getting ready for bed
> 
> So you will now be waiting for the appraisal??


Just wear flip flops, AKA East Texas Calculators, and you can count to 20 any time!


----------



## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> Our offer was accepted.
> 
> New Seller Addendum arrived in my email last night as long with a few other forms. Everything is signed and emailed back to the realtor.
> 
> We did retain the closing date of 09/29 instead of moving it ahead. Seller will give an extension if needed.


*YAHOO!!!!!! YAY!!!!! *


----------



## goatgurl

girl child this ride has been nuckin' futts for youall.  I pray that it all sails smoothly from here on out.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I can only count to 20, as long as it is before I get dressed or after getting ready for bed
> 
> So you will now be waiting for the appraisal??



Shouldnt it be to 21 before getting dressed? 

I was sent the info for the title company last night so today I will be getting the ernest money check sent out and a photocopy to my realtor. Then they will send the signed paperwork back to me and I will take it to the bank, give them the stuff they want. Then they will order the appraisal. I hope this goes quick!

We have all the down payment and closing cost money, title for the paid off car. The hay/pig issue is old enough i think that we wont have to explain it again as well as the car payoff part of things.



goatgurl said:


> girl child this ride has been nuckin' futts for youall.  I pray that it all sails smoothly from here on out.



Hope it goes very very smooth! Thank you


----------



## Baymule

goatgurl said:


> girl child this ride has been nuckin' futts for youall.  I pray that it all sails smoothly from here on out.


----------



## Baymule

It's time for moving boxes. Liquor stores have boxes with those dividers in them, great for packing drinking glasses and small items. You don't even have to wrap them.


----------



## Latestarter

They also happen to be pretty useful for moving your booze safely


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Shouldnt it be to 21 before getting dressed?


  Well, maybe WHILE getting dressed, or in the shower. 

If you are going to include things other than fingers and toes I suppose I could count a little higher if I get creative. For example I could count to 12 with 2 hands: 8 fingers, 2 thumbs, 2 hands  Then up to 24 if you add the feet. And apparently other body parts could be used as well.


----------



## farmerjan

Congratulations with the acceptance.  With all the hoops you have gone through in the past, this will hopefully go alot more smoothly for you and quicker too.  Although you get winter sooner up there, by keeping the closing date, it will give you a little tiny bit of extra time to get some of the necessary stuff in line for the winter as far as some housing for the animals.  I know how hard it is to get animals moved and with not having the ideal barn situation right off the bat......but it will be yours and hopefully the temp stuff that you do will be workable until you can make it the way you want.  AT LEAST, the monthly payment will mean it is yours and you won't have to deal with anyone in and out or questioning you or anything else.  That will be worth it's weight in gold for your peace of mind.


----------



## CntryBoy777

With all the "Mess" that ya have dealt with during some pretty tought times....it would be very easy to "Close the Door" and Run-Away from those "Memories"......What ya are "Heading" to certainly is Much better.....and Way better than what ya leaving "Behind"....let the "Trash" just be trash....throw it out!


----------



## misfitmorgan

I got all the seller signed paperwork today and faxed it to the bank. Seller forgot the lead disclosure which my bank requires so i got that and signed it and waiting on the seller to send back the signed copy of it.

So moving forward.


----------



## Bruce

Hopefully ALL smooth sailing. You have had enough sailing in storms with Chemical Bank.


----------



## Baymule

Oh, this is GOOD news! This one is going to get done, stick a fork in it, DONE!


----------



## Bruce

I think what she needs to stick a fork in is the people over at Chemical Bank (and the appraiser)


----------



## misfitmorgan

I've thought about it!!

Waiting on the lead disclosure to be returned from the seller.

T-31


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> I think what she needs to stick a fork in is the people over at Chemical Bank (and the appraiser)


Make that a PITCH FORK!!


----------



## babsbag

A hay fork...it has more prongs. Hope that this goes all the way to the end with nothing more than waiting.


----------



## Bruce

And they are "pointier"


----------



## misfitmorgan

Not much new.

The bank put a hold on $450 in my account for the appraisal, i hope that means they plan on ordering it asap. The loan lady also said she sent me out a packet of documents and i should be getting them today.

T-29


----------



## Baymule

Making progress. But how slowly the wheels turn!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Have ya been packing boxes?


----------



## misfitmorgan

I got the packet of documents last night but i noticed they are only applying 2.25$ of the seller assist instead of 3%, which means we are getting seller assist of $1408 instead of $1920 which means we are short atm on closing costs by slightly over $500. So I have to call today and ask why. Closing costs are estimated at $6,946 atm so over the 10% i was aiming for. I'm sure we will get it sorted and can come up with the extra if we have too but i doubt i could come up with it in the next week. In other words it would slow down the loan.


----------



## misfitmorgan

No packing yet....i will when the loans move forward more.


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## Bruce

News @misfitmorgan we need NEWS!


----------



## Baymule

X2!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Is there anybody In there?....just knock if ya can Hear me....is there anyone at Home?......(Pink Floyd)....


----------



## farmerjan

Hopefully they have been so busy getting everything ready to move that they are too tired to get on the computer.....sure hope it is moving along for them.


----------



## Baymule




----------



## Bruce

X2!!


----------



## babsbag




----------



## Bruce

MIA!!! 
We might have to send out a search party. Who in BYH lives the closest?


----------



## promiseacres

Well she did say that they would have Internet issues at the new place sooooo,  Prayers that's the problem.


----------



## Bruce

But they haven't closed on it yet! It is/was scheduled for the Sept 29th.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Sorry everyone....BYH hasnt been sending me any notifications at all to my email and and almost none here it seems and ive been to busy at work to check here.

So update.....

Closing is still Sept 29th as far as we know.

We had to get the utilities turned on electric took 6 days to turn on and that whole time i was fighting with the gas companies to find out who serviced the house. They all kept telling me the other one owned the line. I finally went up to the house and got the serial number off the meter and was also to give it to the gas company so it is on as of 9am this morning. 

We are going after work today to flush the lines because they were winterized, then let the hot water heater fill so it can be lit. We need to clean the furnace and light it, normally the gas company does this but the furnace hasnt been used in some time like years, the outdoor boiler was ducted into the existing heating system just past the furnace so that should all be fine. So the gas guy said clean it out and then we would need to light it ourselves. After we make sure there are no water leaks and the water heater is full and the lines flush we need to turn of the breaker for the well.

The appraisal hopefully will be done Monday and submitted Tuesday.

To my knowledge we have all the closing costs covered, all paperwork into the bank, credit was ran again. I signed the initial loan package and returned it to the bank. So as soon as the appraisal is done, they will send me the official loan packet(first one was estimated) then the processor just needs to put the packet together and give it to the under writer...then we get a yay or a nay.

Everyone hope for a yay and we get to finalize the closing date.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure glad to Hear from ya!!.....sounds like things have been chugging along and hope the filling, cleaning, and lighting all goes without a hitch. I think I would fill and drain that tank a few times to make sure the sediment stays out of the water lines....just in case of rust or particles that could slow or clogg the faucets and feed in lines....especially if it has been that long a time since there was flow. If ya have a compressor....small one like for a tire...or a can of air for cleaning computers and such....blow out the pilot light hole before turning it on to flush any dust or particles that may have settled there. You probably know all that already, but just a reminder.....


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thank you @CntryBoy777 

The house was winterized fall of 2016 so shouldnt be too bad as far as water lines go but we are planning on flushing it out a few times and removing all faucet screens/shower heads before we run water thru them.

We are taking our shop vac to clean the furnace, the blower function on it should be enough to clean out the pilot hole....its a shop vac from a dentists office. Interesting fact...did you know every time you use one of those shop vacs from a dentist it reminds you of the dentist.....i rarely use it but it is super powerful. Any how just gonna take the vacuum and hope it all goes well.


----------



## misfitmorgan

And T-15


----------



## Bruce

She's aliiiiiiive!!! 



misfitmorgan said:


> and removing all faucet screens/shower heads before we run water thru them.


You beat me to it, I was going to suggest that. 

REALLY weird that they will let you go mess around in the house before closing. In fact I would think it would be the responsibility of the owner (bank) AND in the contract  that all those things are done and all systems working properly at the time of closing. 

Glad things are progressing.

T-15 - Roger


----------



## Baymule

It will be a YAY!!!


----------



## Bruce

T-14


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## Bruce

T-13


----------



## misfitmorgan

The contract i signed said something about I had the right to turn on utilities in my name blah blah...so when the appraisal company demanded power/water/furnace be on for appraisal they said hey its your job. I didnt feel like arguing i just want it done so i can move if it cost me another $100 at this point i dont care.

We got the hot water heater lit(i may have mentioned that already). Couln't get the furnace to light so DH went back last night with a torch to heat up some kinda thermostat thing and try lighting the furnace directly instead of thru the pilot light but no go still. DH said something about he is pretty sure it needs a new controller but to call a furnace repair person to have them out.


----------



## Bruce

T-11

So if something blows up it is YOUR responsibility?? Seems not right somehow.

The furnace has a pilot? How old is it? Might be something to replace in the not distant future, I don't think furnaces have had pilot lights for a couple of decades. Of course I've not purchased many gas furnaces, one to be exact and that was 4 years ago.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The furnace is an Amana from the 70s we are guessing, so yes it definitely has a pilot light.

Many newer furnaces still use pilot lights but there is the option to buy a furnace with an electric igniter, personally for me that would just be another part that could break. I have always had furnaces with pilot lights and only ever had two issues. A) Thermocoupler isnt working or B) controller isnt working.


We do plan on replacing it just not before we buy the house 

The new furnace would be approx $1,500, that is a furnace to heat up to 3500sqft with 85,500BTU and 95% efficiency. We also plan on installing a tankless water heater at the same time which will be between $400-900(have to see what our hot water use is first) so it will likely be a year or two until replacement.

In other news we have the water on and all. The water is beautiful!!! 
We have a deep well, zero rust, zero smell, wonderful water.....only down side i can see is a slight slight calcium deposit.

We also were screwing around while we were there alone and just realized all the bedrooms have new ceiling fan/light combos and the ceilings in both living rooms have ceiling lights wired in.....so we can put in ceiling fans....plus the ceilings are high enough DH has no problem with the fans.


----------



## CntryBoy777

That's good to hear about the water....and sure hope ya don't have the frozen pipe problem ya faced last winter at the other place....


----------



## Bruce

You might want to reconsider the tankless water heater. We have one, got it when half the house was rebuilt 4 years ago. It is useful only when taking a shower. For small uses it is really inefficient and water using appliances (dishwasher, clothes washer) use very little these days. I doubt the washer ever gets the proper temp water, at least at the beginning, since it puts in a little water, spins, puts in some water, spins, etc. The on demand isn't on long enough to heat that water at all.

Your well water is likely the same temp as ours which means maybe 45°. The basement even in the summer is only about 60°. I've watched the temp guage on the temperature control valve. It takes several minutes to get up to even 100°, longer to get to 120°. Thus you are sending a lot of tepid water through the pipes before you finally get hot water. With water starting at 120° you aren't wasting nearly as much. 

Then there are the "rapid cycle" things. It goes on after it senses 1/2 gal/min for 3 seconds. Unless you leave the water running, you build up a lot of "cold pockets" in the pipe. The place where I first ran into that was shaving then showering. I don't use an electric, all the little rinses don't kick the heater on so when I got to the shower it was hot at first, then cooled, then got hot again. So you have a choice, waste gas by leaving the water running when you aren't using it or living with colder "hot" water. 

Your better bet is a hybrid. It will use the heat pump when it can, electric elements otherwise. I didn't replace the on demand with one though because the heat pump needs minimum 60° water and if that is what I have in the summer, I'm screwed in the winter. The basement gets down to freezing sometimes. I had to put a heat tape on the intake and outlet pipes of the pressure tank (they froze one year) and run the condensate drain for the on demand water heater to a bucket because the water in the condensate pump freezes. The pump HAS to be basically on the floor since the bottom of the water heater is only about 12" up.

If the (soon to be your) water heater is NOT in the basement or the basement stays warmer, look into a hybrid.


----------



## Baymule

For the calcium deposits, use cow magnets. Place them on the pipe nipple coming out of the well tank. I think they are placed opposite poles to each other. My parents had calcium crud on their faucets and they used cow magnets. It even cleared the deposits off the faucets.


----------



## babsbag

I've heard about magnets but never believed it. Calcium isn't a metal so how does that work???


----------



## Mini Horses

So, Does the calcium build at magnet OR does it in some way change properties of the calcium?   I would think the latter.

Where's our chemist?  Our well/water experts?


----------



## Baymule

The magnets change the ions in the water or something like that. There is lots of discussion on the internet on it, mostly doubting that it works. But cow magnets are cheap, so why not try it?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> You might want to reconsider the tankless water heater. We have one, got it when half the house was rebuilt 4 years ago. It is useful only when taking a shower. For small uses it is really inefficient and water using appliances (dishwasher, clothes washer) use very little these days. I doubt the washer ever gets the proper temp water, at least at the beginning, since it puts in a little water, spins, puts in some water, spins, etc. The on demand isn't on long enough to heat that water at all.
> 
> Your well water is likely the same temp as ours which means maybe 45°. The basement even in the summer is only about 60°. I've watched the temp guage on the temperature control valve. It takes several minutes to get up to even 100°, longer to get to 120°. Thus you are sending a lot of tepid water through the pipes before you finally get hot water. With water starting at 120° you aren't wasting nearly as much.
> 
> Then there are the "rapid cycle" things. It goes on after it senses 1/2 gal/min for 3 seconds. Unless you leave the water running, you build up a lot of "cold pockets" in the pipe. The place where I first ran into that was shaving then showering. I don't use an electric, all the little rinses don't kick the heater on so when I got to the shower it was hot at first, then cooled, then got hot again. So you have a choice, waste gas by leaving the water running when you aren't using it or living with colder "hot" water.
> 
> Your better bet is a hybrid. It will use the heat pump when it can, electric elements otherwise. I didn't replace the on demand with one though because the heat pump needs minimum 60° water and if that is what I have in the summer, I'm screwed in the winter. The basement gets down to freezing sometimes. I had to put a heat tape on the intake and outlet pipes of the pressure tank (they froze one year) and run the condensate drain for the on demand water heater to a bucket because the water in the condensate pump freezes. The pump HAS to be basically on the floor since the bottom of the water heater is only about 12" up.
> 
> If the (soon to be your) water heater is NOT in the basement or the basement stays warmer, look into a hybrid.



I had one of the early tankless models and it worked great maybe the newer ones are junk now i dunno. I do have an old style fill then wash washer not a newer spray and spin type though i will be buying those a well with in a few years. Not sure on the well water temps for here. We may just replace with a standard hot water heater then i was just wanting to have a smaller heater for the most part because of its location in the basement. You have to go down the stairs and around the furnace and hot water heater to the corner of the basement where the washer/dryer live, seems like it would get annoying after while.

The furnace and hot water heater are both in the basement right next to each other. I assume the basement stays warmer but i dont know, i do know the furance is a 120,000btu model. Also found it is an Amana GL 120 and the manual for it was printed in 1967. I called Amana about a replacement gas valve and they told me the model number wasnt long enough according to the parts department, until i told her the manual for it was from 1967. She asked me to send her a picture of the metal plate for the furnace so i have but im pretty sure the answer is going to be, we dont have a part for it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> For the calcium deposits, use cow magnets. Place them on the pipe nipple coming out of the well tank. I think they are placed opposite poles to each other. My parents had calcium crud on their faucets and they used cow magnets. It even cleared the deposits off the faucets.



I will give it a shot, dont think it would hurt anything.

We also checked water pressure. Turned on all the faucets, the pressure didnt change....i dunno how but it didnt. We did notice the bathroom drain and toilet are slow to flush so we will need to clean the lines out or possibly get the septic emptied.


----------



## Baymule

If you wind up having to replace the furnace to clinch the financing, here's what to do. Write it into the contract that you have 30 or 60 days after closing to do so. We had to replace the furnace, outside unit, wiring under the house and breaker box. It was written into the contract that we had 30 days to get it done and furnish proof in the form of contractors invoice marked PAID.  You sure don't want to replace it BEFORE it is yours.

Yes, clean the lines and have the septic pumped.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I doubt it is the septic, if those are the only slow locations....boiling water and a snake should solve that issue. Those traps are the first to slow from hair clogs.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The only other drain is the kitchen sink. lol

We would have to write it in for sure Bay!


----------



## Bruce

T-9

Well water will be whatever the temp is at whatever depth the pump sits (*)
Then depending on the size of the pressure tank and how long the water sits in it, the water entering the water heater could be as high as basement temp. 

That 1967 furnace is likely inefficient as all get out, efficiency and conservation weren't a big concern back then. The new one might pay for itself fairly quickly in "saved" propane. YOU shouldn't have to pay the HVAC people to come and fix it (if possible), the appliances ARE supposed to be functional, no? The appraiser can do his job if the furnace doesn't work, he'll just drop the value of the house to account for that. If the furnace CAN'T be used, the price paid for the house should go down since a working furnace is (I ASSUME) in the contract.

* assuming "in the well" pump. If a jet pump in the basement, whatever temp the ground is at the depth of the intake pipe  In any case, water at depth is a pretty static temp year round regardless of the air temp.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I'm sure the furnace is inefficient we are on natural gas though not propane...not that that means i dont want to have as small a bill as possible lol. 

The contract for the house was being sold "As Is" because it is a foreclosure. The loan officer talked to the appraisal company and her boss and they said the furnace must be on and working for the appraisal. 

A "deep well" here is 100' or more deep also know as an irrigation well, they do not go dry. There is a pump in the basement as well as the pressure tank, both look pretty modern.


----------



## Bruce

Bizarre. The house appraises based on what it is, what is in it and what condition those things are in. Now the bank can choose to not make a loan for a full time residence that doesn't have a working heat source but that is another thing altogether. 

And @Baymule's suggestion is good, you should have time to replace the furnace AFTER you buy rather than having to do it BEFORE you buy the house. The bank can't both sell "as is" and require everything to be in working order to get it appraised by THEIR approved appraiser. After all, it is THEY who require the appraisal on the house THEY own. In fact, since they are both seller and lender, THEY should have had it appraised when they put it on the market. As you said, it may not even be possible to fix a 50 year old furnace.


----------



## BantammChick

misfitmorgan said:


> So.....i got pictures! I have a lot more on my camera that i got last night these ones are just off my phone.
> 
> Firstly Issac Bitten...watching the livestock.
> View attachment 20397
> 
> Mr Pig our mini Boar giving me the stink eye
> View attachment 20398
> 
> Moon our Mini Nigerian Buck and Ruger our Alpine Buck
> View attachment 20399
> 
> A Very Prego May #1
> View attachment 20400
> 
> and a Slightly less prego White May
> View attachment 20402
> 
> Missy Mini Mancha
> View attachment 20403
> 
> Lucy Mini Mancha (Missy's daughter)
> View attachment 20404
> 
> Ella
> View attachment 20405
> 
> Honey...Suffolk Ewe very sweet girl
> View attachment 20406
> 
> Some of our replacement hens, just started laying
> View attachment 20407


LOVE your billy.... I have one who looks just like that!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Bizarre. The house appraises based on what it is, what is in it and what condition those things are in. Now the bank can choose to not make a loan for a full time residence that doesn't have a working heat source but that is another thing altogether.
> 
> And @Baymule's suggestion is good, you should have time to replace the furnace AFTER you buy rather than having to do it BEFORE you buy the house. The bank can't both sell "as is" and require everything to be in working order to get it appraised by THEIR approved appraiser. After all, it is THEY who require the appraisal on the house THEY own. In fact, since they are both seller and lender, THEY should have had it appraised when they put it on the market. As you said, it may not even be possible to fix a 50 year old furnace.



I think there is some confusion here. The house is being sold as is by the foreclosure company, the house is owned by chase atm though. My bank is a CU locally and does not own the house. The house was appraised when it was foreclosed but that was 2 yrs ago and the gas valve could have ceased after the fact. I signed  the as is contract to purchase the house as part of my purchase offer, my CU had nothing to do with what i signed. The CU requires a "whole home heating system" in all primary residences it issues mortgages for because without it if the house isnt winterized the water lines will freeze and break then thaw come spring and destroy the house. They also dont want people living in primary residences without water and heat for obvious reasons.



BantammChick said:


> LOVE your billy.... I have one who looks just like that!View attachment 38640


Thank you, i agree he does look a lot like mine i had.

Newest update. Repair man was there yesterday and he agreed it was the gas valve. He located a direct replacement gas valve. Repair cost total $243 and the gas valve is getting installed at 10:30am today then he will light the furnace and we can give the all clear on getting the appraisal done. Hopefully that is the very last hurdle we have to jump before closing.

T-?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Repair man is done. He took off the old gas valve and was inspecting it which is when he noticed the orifice for the pilot light was plugged. He cleaned it out, re-installed the valve and tadaa furnace is lit. Cost $0 

The realtor is ordering the appraisal.

The repair guy is a friend of a friend....he insisted we pay him nothing we insisted we at least take him to dinner or drinks for his time.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sounds like a name and number to hang on to for future reference....especially if ya are thinking of replacing....it is much better to do business with Good people....


----------



## misfitmorgan

Definitely will keep his info, seems like a very good and decent guy.


----------



## Baymule

It looks like y'all will be skidding into closing long enough to sign up for the Official Moving program, then onto finish packing! That is just awesome about the furnace. Fantastic. You sure needed a break, and you got one.


----------



## Baymule

It looks like y'all will be skidding into closing long enough to sign up for the Official Moving program, then onto finish packing! That is just awesome about the furnace. Fantastic. You sure needed a break, and you got one.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I think there is some confusion here. My bank is a CU locally and does not own the house.


Yeah, I remembered that some time after I posted 

T-7 if you don't count today (which is closer to done than not) but do count Friday (closing day)

 on the furnace and the ZERO charge! Most of those people around here charge at least $50 just to show up.

I'm surprised you have gas on that road given the rural nature but The gas company here doesn't do anything that isn't city though there are some really odd isolated "spurs" that are rural and a good distance from any other service area and nothing in between. I have no idea why they would dig a pipeline and not at least provide service to anything along it.


----------



## Mike CHS

You have had so many hurdles that I hope this is the last.


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## Bruce

T-5


----------



## misfitmorgan

Pretty sure we won't be closing on friday but i'm hopeful still. We really need to get this wrapped up and get livestock moved because the sheep and goats will be breeding soon.

We sold all the piglets from our mid-summer litters except 3 gilt and 1 boar, the boar is suppose to be spoke for already as well and my sister said she is probly going to take a couple so that will leave us 1 gilt we may keep for a back up. We also have a reliable spring order for 30 piglets already. Someone is interested in buying one of our gilts we were holding back but decided we didnt like how she was growing.

Red pig is going to be butchered, Eva is being pretty much given away(i cant eat her) which DH isnt super happy about lol. So that will leave us with Spot pig who is going to her own barn soon, Sarah, Laverne, the two hereford gilts, our hereford boar, two barrows, and the gilt we will hold back from the current litters.


----------



## Bruce

Related to the appraisal that couldn't start until the furnace was working? 

T-4 ... Maybe


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yes.

The appraisal isnt done yet as far as i know, the bank is suppose to let me know when they get the report back. As soon as it comes back everything goes to the underwriter and if they ok it we get to set up the official closing date.


----------



## Bruce

Another bump in the road. Hopefully both the appraiser and the underwriter will have this on the top of their to-do list.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I do hope so, it is a smallish CU and they do everything "in house" so i'm hoping its quick. They only have 15 branches with mine being the first.


----------



## Bruce

Small is good, big is often disconnected.


----------



## Baymule

You're getting there!


----------



## misfitmorgan

The realtor let me know that the appraisal will be tomorrow morning. I'm hoping for the best.


----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## goatgurl

sure hope it all comes together soon.  watching and praying


----------



## Bruce

T-3 (I hope). I imagine if the appraiser has all the info needed it shouldn't take more than an hour or so to write up, correct?


----------



## Baymule

Our appraiser took over a week   to write it up and turn it in. The clock was ticking....


----------



## misfitmorgan

I'm hoping the appraiser is a fast one!

The last one took 5 days to turn in their report.

Today is the appraisal. We went and made sure everything was on last night, mopped up the old water that was on the basement floor, and swept the garage. We also put a container under the drippy hot heater drain valve.

The realtor also let me know the well and septic inspection will be tomorrow, i didn't know we were getting one but the township requires it within 3 months before a sale.

I will be calling the bank today to see what they want the new closing to be, hopefully soon!


----------



## Baymule

I know you are ready to move, so let's get the party started! I hope everything goes full speed ahead for you.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Beyond ready!


----------



## CntryBoy777

1 little, 2 little, 3 little Boxes....4 little, 5 little, 6 little Boxes...7 little, 8 little, 9 little......10 little Boxes, packed and ready to Go!!
....to the tune of 10 little Indians.....


----------



## misfitmorgan

thats about how many i have packed atm lol


----------



## Bruce

T- (well, I don't know)

Hope the well and septic inspection go well. Wouldn't be surprised for someone to decide you need to pump the tank since probably no one knows when it was last done.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The inspection isnt based on fullness of the tank though if it is to full they will require it to be emptied for the actual inspection itself. As far as i know they make sure the well, septic, and drain field are where the county records indicate them to be, check that the septic has all covers and they fit well, then check to see if the top or sides of the septic are compromised(roots grown thru, collapsed, etc.).


----------



## Baymule

Garbage bags are great for packing soft items, bath towels, etc


----------



## Bruce

Get the contractor size


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Garbage bags are great for packing soft items, bath towels, etc



Yes thats how my extra bedding and pillows and such are packed atm.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Ok Apparently there was a discrepancy between what the bank/I thought the seller was giving for seller assist and PMI pointed it out, so i am atm $783 short of having the money to close that i need. Thursday i will have $450 to put towards that and Friday DH will have $200, my mother has agreed to loan me $333 on thursday and i will give her DHs $200 on friday so that hopefully the bank can get everything back to PMI and get an answer before the weekend so i can sign my 3 day paperwork and we can close on like....the 10th 

Then thats it if there is another delay or they want more money, we are done for.

The new closing date is the 13th so.....
T-10

Bad part is rent is due again the 15th so im hoping we can close at least a few days early.

Nothing else new to report, all critters are ok atm.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I know it is difficult to be stuck in limbo for such a long period of time, but hang in there and keep packing....


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## Baymule

It's all going to come together at the last moment. Then it'll be grab and run.


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## Latestarter




----------



## Bruce

Seems it never ends! Hopefully smooth sailing to the 13th!

T-8 or maybe T-5 ( I don't count the current day  )

I ASSUME the rent due would be for the NEXT month and you won't be there so you don't have to pay, right?


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## misfitmorgan

Correct so long as we can move out in 2 days lol.

Money is in the bank...waiting on PMI to send us thru.


----------



## Pastor Dave

These places do not care their business involves folks' lives. They just care abt the money. It will be worth it once you're finally sitting as a family in the kitchen or dining room, whichever it has, and you're enjoying dinner together. Or, when you can look out and scan your property that lies between you and the horizon.


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## Baymule

Nothing like your own place. I hope you have ALL your friends and family lined up at the starting line for the GREAT MOVING RACE!


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## babsbag

They are keeping you hanging by a thread, hope they get you an answer by the weekend; nothing worse than spending a weekend wondering.  Maybe I missed it somewhere, but I am guessing that the appraisal was good?


----------



## misfitmorgan

I got the appraisal report yesterday, the only noted problem was the stairs to the 2nd floor on the "barn" need to be replaced. The house was appraised at $71,400 so it went fine.

Not sure if i mentioned it but septic inspection came back...septic needs emptied but is working fine and there are two leaks in the drain pipe in the basement that will need to be repaired. That is where the water on the floor was coming from, not the windows. The pipe will be cheaper then new windows right away so i'm fine with that.

The well inspection came back. The submersible pump is in good working condition and the water tested excellent and negative for everything.

The gift money from my mother and the gift letter were dropped off yesterday after work. They told me i did need to get 2 bank statements from her for PMI so my mother is faxing those this morning to the bank. The local mortgage lady at the bank here did tell me the underwriter already approved the loan and we are simply waiting on PMI to also approve. If PMI doesn't approve though we dont get the loan.

The bank lady told me we should hopefully have an answer tomorrow after the papers are faxed but no guarantees. If PMI approves the loan/funds the next step is the 3 day notice i think...which means we could close on the 10th.

My family and friends are probly not going to help move only because most of them will be busy because of the short notice. The other bad part is DH got so depressed about finding a new farm taking so long most of the stuff he was suppose to get done before we even got close to the moving date have only gotten half done so that is going to be a wreck.


----------



## Baymule

I don't know what rental laws are there, but typically you are not considered "late" on rent for 3 days. Unless your landlords were smart enough to insert in the rental agreement (and something tells me they weren't) a 3 day eviction clause so they could lock up the place, get the sheriff department to toss you out, slap you with a enormous late fee, I don't think you should worry about it. Grab everything as fast as you can and get it out of there.

Would they be knocking on your door if you were a day late? Would they show up with padlocks if you were a day late? Have you ever been late paying the rent before and what did they do about it?  What about paying a prorated daily amount? Sure, they won't like it, but if they tried to take you to court for the month's rent, at least you would have paid for the days you occupied the property. 

What are eviction laws? Here, unless you have that 3 day clause in the rental agreement, it can 30 days or longer to evict renters. You might want to find that out like, right now! That way, if they give you any crap, you know "your rights" and can inform them of the laws put in place to protect renters. You can threaten to drag your feet and take as long as the law will allow to clear out all your stuff. Technically, as long as you have ONE article of furniture in the house, YOU are still in possession of it and they can't do one thing about it. You could be a real PITA with the law on your side if you wanted to, and point that out to them. Then they might be more agreeable to let you pay a daily rental fee, if necessary.

I had a bad experience with my very first renters one time and they  told me that they could live in my house for 3 months before I could evict them. I kinda went off script and told them I would kick the door open, pour gasoline all over the place and set fire to the house and all their stuff. I told them I wasn't going to make payments on my house while they lived in it for free, so I might as well burn the damn thing down. I must have made a believer out of them because they always paid the rent. But they moved out and left stuff in the house. So I found them and gave them a dead line to get it out before I tossed it out in the street. It was a terrible experience, they were trashy, bum, type people. I learned a lot and tightened up my requirements after that. I was a single mom, couldn't afford the house note, so I rented it out and lived in a sh!t hole of a house that I could afford.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The landlords would let me do a prorated rate and pay for say one week or whatever problem is i wont have the money. Yes we could drag our feet and take up to 30 days to move out before the law would force us but they could still sue us for the rent we didnt pay that last month while we dragged our feet which is something im not interested in doing.

I'm sure it will get sorted out.


----------



## Baymule

Yeah, it will get sorted out. You will have another paycheck roll around, those paychecks are rather nice and show up kinda regular. Hopefully you will close soon enough to keep from having to pay for another week.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Hopefully no news is good news because i havn't heard anything from the bank on the PMI. Hopefully i hear today and hopefully it is an, we are all good to go.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah because closing tomorrow would be great! Though I don't know if they would finish today and schedule closing that soon. Do you have a lawyer at your beck and call than can jump in at any time??


----------



## misfitmorgan

It isnt possible to close tomorrow now.

The law requires i sign some sort of paper and have to wait 3 days before closing. So i hope they get me an answer today.


----------



## Bruce

Bummer. Will they set the date for 3 days after you sign? They might find you on their doorstep when they open the bank so you can sign 

Getting closer, closer, closer


----------



## misfitmorgan

I called and asked the bank yesterday afternoon, nothing back from PMI yet. Hopefully we get good news today.

This is pretty much the last day i can sign that paper and not incur the $150/day penalty from the seller.


----------



## Pastor Dave

If we ask God to help us with patience, often He gives us things to do just that. This experience may be one of those for you. Praying you come out on the other side with more patience (and a new home)


----------



## promiseacres




----------



## misfitmorgan

I dont recall asking for more patience, but hopefully it all works out.


----------



## Bruce

Geez. Do these people NOT understand that YOU can't move it any faster? You've already burned the bottom out of your track shoes!!!! Seems to me those that are causing the delay should pay the UNREASONABLE penalty.

More


----------



## misfitmorgan

Ok Bank called....PMI Approved.

Everything is back to the underwiter again to get it all in order to send to the title company. The house is bound and insured in my name as of about 15 minutes ago(effective 10/16).

The loan officer is pretty for sure we wont be able to sign closing papers until monday which means i have to pay for 2 days of penalty if the seller wants to push it, lets hope they dont because i dont have it. The $1,900 i had to come up with in the last week and a half that i didnt know i would need has wiped me out.

So now we wait on the title company as far as i understand things.


----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## CntryBoy777

It sounds really Good.....if they push that issue, I would offer a post dated check.....but, if they have held this property for a while, I doubt that a couple of days will be an issue. Really pulling for ya....and if ya need sock $$ to make it happen just PM me your address....


----------



## misfitmorgan

I don't own checks....i should get some though.

The realtor is going to try to get them to waive the penalty because it will only be "1 day" over....banks dont do anything on sat/sun lol.

I did recall i need to pay the realtor $250 at closing so ill have to find that as well, not out of the woods yet.

@CntryBoy777 it's to kind of you to offer but i will get it figured out.


----------



## greybeard

Hope it's smooth sailing from here on. Keep in mind, diligence by a title company is in your good interest most of the time and the better they are at their jobs, the better off you will be. Title is the one part you do want a very hard scrutiny done.


----------



## Mini Horses

In our area there are title search people sitting at the deed record offices waiting for calls from their title companies! It's generally pretty quick.  Almost all paperwork is preset in computers to enter a few facts and print.    It CAN literally be done and ready within a day.    How many people are also waiting and their position in line is the issue, most often.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The realtor got a hold of me because the title company said the Lender gave them the go ahead to process the title but the title company wouldnt be ready to close until the 23rd.

I talked to the bank and they confirmed that is what the title company told them as well. 

The Loan officer is going to talk to the realtor and push for us to get the extension without a penalty because in looking at the timeline and paperwork the bank feels it was the sellers fault we ran out of time because of them dragging their feet and dropping everything like utilities and the furnace into my lap to take care of....and the contract says if it is the sellers fault there are delays the buyer will not be penalized for the delays and the an extension will be granted.


----------



## Pastor Dave

misfitmorgan said:


> I dont recall asking for more patience, but hopefully it all works out.


I think if I had to go through the process you are experiencing, I would need help with my patience. I have not seen you exhibit a lack of patience. I was just imagining what it all would have done to me. I am still praying you guys will finish up feeling it was all worth it.


----------



## Bruce

@Pastor Dave I think she is holding it together here for our sake  I bet there have been some explosions, very understandably!!!, in the past few months.

I think the realtor would give you a few weeks to pay up given all you've been through @misfitmorgan It isn't like s/he won't know where to find you to collect.

Time for a "go fund me" type request to get a few hundred to cover these unexpected expenses? You can send "Thank you pork" at a later date in return


----------



## Baymule

The twenty third?? And how many days rent will you have to pay at your present house owned by idiots? Bummer. I sure hope they don't throw any more road blocks in your way.


----------



## babsbag

Hoping that this can just go forward and be done and they don't charge you any fees. They should be happy to have this sold and I can't believe that you had to do all the stuff with the utilities etc; never heard of the buyer doing all that. That should be worth something to them.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The bank send a letter to the realtor for the asset manager of the property. The realtor sent it to the asset manager and told me not to worry he would handle it. The realtor also said we've done everything we have been asked to and everything we needed to do plus extra and did it all quite well....that makes me feel a little better.

The stress of we got the house, we didnt get the house, we are moving, we are not moving.....i'm pretty sure this whole experience has taken a few years off my life. I am generally an extremely patient person, atm i just want to get on with the moving part of things so we can be out of this place we live now and not have to deal with them anymore. 

If we dont close until the 23rd that would be 9 more days of rent...at $19.35 per day. Thats if we were out on the 23rd which isnt likely...i think it will take us at least 2 days to move everything. So say 11 days at $19.35 per day thats $212.85.

On the plus side the delay does mean two more paychecks for DH and I before closing which means we should have the money for the realtor and slightly more money to move with.


----------



## Bruce

T-12


----------



## babsbag

Bruce said:


> T-12



let's get this rocket off of the ground, there have been more than enough delays.   Praying for "clear weather" from here on out.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Closing is at 9am on the 23rd in the next bigger town to the north of us.


----------



## Bruce

Packing in earnest begins on the 21st. 

Since they required you to go in and fix things in order to buy the house, maybe you can take a few of the larger "outside" things over before closing as well


----------



## Baymule

Are you packed and ready to go?


----------



## misfitmorgan

No im not packed lol.

We will be packing anything we dont need on a daily basis this weekend and upcomming week. Next weekend we will pack everything we can live without for 2-3 days. Sunday night the trailers will arrive and be loaded, the livestock will be locked in the barn and their pasture fence taken down to be put up at the new place. The temporary stall panels we have in the barn will be taken down and taken to the new house to enclose the few piglets we have left and our minis. DH and i both have monday and tuesday off so monday we will enclose the "wood shed" on one end and make a small pasture area on the other end out of hog panels for the pigs. Red and Spot should be going to their owners house so that only leaves us Eva and Sara for the big girls. Laverne will go in with the big girls. The herefords, barrows, and pink gilt will go into the temp pasture with the goats, sheep and llama. Tuesday we will be buying some cheap field fence to make a dog fence in the back of the house for the dogs. Hopefully that plan will work and hold everyone for a week or two until we can do something more permanent/get more money


----------



## misfitmorgan

T-11


----------



## Baymule

Moving is a LOT of work, but it is work for a much better life on your own place. We are patiently waiting on pictures.


----------



## Bruce

T-6, everything still good?


----------



## misfitmorgan

T-5 everything seems fine.

I signed more papers yesterday and sent them back.

There is one small conflict i need to sort out today. The bank told me i MUST have the funds for closing drawn off my account into a cashiers check and bring it to closing.....the title company say i MUST wire the closing funds from my account to their account before closing.

Supposedly this is because they are doing the closing in the title office in Kentucky and I'm signing here for "convenience" like it would be an option to require me to go to Kentucky to close. 

So anyhow I just need to call the bank today and see if I am allowed to wire the money and what they would require for me to do that. The realtor said I would need a "wire proof receipt" and could take that to the cosing place for the bank to have proof.


----------



## Latestarter

Wiring the funds is the proper way. 

They (bank) require a cashiers check at closing as a stipulation that most title companies will NOT accept a personal check or cash and DO require verified funds that can't be "stopped" by the buyer. Once you have the cashier's check, the only way to stop it is to cash it back into your account, which you obviously can't do once you've given it away. Since the closing is in another state, the cashier's check is an obvious no go. Just call the title company and get specific wiring directions from them to provide to your bank. Then have your bank wire the funds directly to the title company's account.

You can wire the funds in advance if you want, even if you don't know the exact amount. This will ensure there is no delay in closing while the title company waits on your "wire". If you wire a little over what the final amount is, the title company will mail you back a check for any overage. If you insist, they would probably wire it back although that's not typical as there are wire fees involved. In addition, that extra $$ is held in their account earning interest while they wait for you to get the check and cash it. It doesn't amount to more than pennies, but those add up over time with each closing they do every month.

Getting closer...


----------



## Bruce

Man that is all just too confusing. Makes sense but geez. Guess we are lucky. Bought this house with enough down there was no title insurance. And the loan is at the local credit union I have belonged to since 1979. No checks, personal or cashier, they just took it out of the account. Didn't know what a PITA it is for other people!

Start packing those boxes @misfitmorgan


----------



## greybeard

Sold some property here in 2015. Closing was done by buyer with a cashier's check. I saw it paper clipped on the folder as I was sitting there signing all my parts. His check to me for the property was paperclipped on my folder.
I cannot imagine buying property without title ins tho, especially not in this state with all the old early Republic of Texas/Spanish land grant titles floating about. Someone contested a piece of property my father had owned for 15 years over one of those old land grant titles..that someone just showed up at the door one night thanking my father for "taking care of my property for the last decade"..It went to some kind of court and it was over in 15 minutes, the guy lost.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I talked to the bank they said wiring is fine. They have all the info I just need to go to the bank today and sign some sort of paper and then bring the receipt for the wire to the closing with me.

I do know the exact amount needed to close, it was on the paperwork i had to sign on tuesday. Turns out it is $300 less then they told me it would be...which i'm fine with 

Things so far look to be all set for the closing. Paperwork other then closing day stuff is all signed. Money will be wired today. Then thats it I think.

I so hope it goes something like this Monday
Sign, sign, sign, sign, sign, sign, wire receipt, sign, sign ,sign, sign some more.......here are your keys congratulations and enjoy your house! I was told it is possible there is a delay with the title company because of funds....so hopefully me wiring the funds today will avoid any delay.

As far as I know Michigan requires title insurance because we have had land issues as well and a lot of land in Indian Reserves, National Parks, State Parks, DNR land, Protected Wetlands, if the "lake" on the property is private or public, if there are any "right of ways"/easements, etc. We also have to know if mineral rights are included in purchase and thats something the title company also checks as well as if the property is in a flood zone. The need for title Insurance is not related at all to down payment size in this state...PMI is though, found out I will be paying $55/month to them for that.


----------



## misfitmorgan

T-4


----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## CntryBoy777

"All my bags are Packed....I'm Ready to Go"!!.....I know ya won't be leavin' on a jet plane....but thought the line in the song was Fitting........and take my word for it....it is much better to read it here, than to listen to me sing it.....


----------



## Baymule

Yes, you will sign, sign, sign, sign......and it will be yours! At our closing, we were presented with a spiral bound copy of all the papers, it was an inch thick. I am really, really happy for you.


----------



## babsbag

almost ready for lift off.


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## Bruce

I mis-typed on the title insurance thing, I was thinking of mortgage insurance. Make sure you get that taken off as soon as you have 20% equity because they sure as shootin' aren't going to tell you!

I have no idea if we are paying title insurance or not, maybe it is in with the rest of the house insurance? Seems like one shouldn't have to pay a lawyer to make sure the title is clear then have to pay insurance for the rest of eternity if s/he didn't do a proper job.


----------



## Latestarter

Since this is a bank repo, they own it free and clear. There should be no delay in handing you the keys after closing. The wire from your lender to the title company is a "deal", but not really a "big deal" as title will have already verified that you're approved and the funds are enroute. Title insurance, as GB stated, is to protect you, the buyer, from bad title where you could lose "your" property to an unknown previous owner. From the above post, sounds like Misfit is on top of all that and the reasons for it. Typically the owner's title coverage is paid for by the seller, as they are backing up their promise of free and clear title (ownership) of the property to you the buyer.

Bruce, the title insurance is a one time deal. the policy is paid for at closing and lasts as long as you own the property.

As for PMI, read the documentation. Typically you can remove it after 5 years with zero missed/late payments. You can also remove it after 2 years with no missed or late payments as long as the property appraises at a higher value to make the loan to value percentage lower than 75-80% (varies by lender). In virtually all cases today, it will automatically stop after ~7-10 years as by that time, the loan to value should be below the 80% threshold regardless. With the improvements you'll be doing to the property, I expect the value required to remove PMI should easily be reached by the 2 year qualifier.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Typically the owner's title coverage is paid for by the seller, as they are backing up their promise of free and clear title (ownership) of the property to you the buyer.


Hmmm, I'm starting to think I may be ignorant of some things regarding title insurance  If it is paid by the seller, is there some "account" I should know about in case someone does ever come claiming they own the place? Other than my wife of course.


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## Latestarter

You should have a copy of the title insurance policy included in all of your closing paperwork. If you had a title company involved in the closing in any way, I'd expect that you have an owner's policy. Otherwise, there's be no reason to involve a title company in the transaction.


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## misfitmorgan

I do plan on dropping the PMI ASAP. Just clearing the stumpage will raise the value of the land by around 10k. Atm that 10 acres is not usable and a cleared field is worth more then woods...atm it is valued at almost nothing. I'm fairly confident that with what we are doing to the house alone it will appraise high enough to drop the PMI or possibly re-finance.

Money was wired yesterday. I will not be at work monday and tuesday so after today you guys wont hear anything until wednesday i believe.


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## Bruce

We won't hear until T+2??  Well, we will just ASSUME that everything went well until you check in. Don't break yourselves moving everything!


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you for all your support everyone, it has made a difference.

I will do my best to try to post something as soon as I can....but I might be busy moving.


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## misfitmorgan

T-3.....I really shouldnt have to count Monday since I am signing at 9am.....so kinda T-2


----------



## farmerjan

Best of luck and hope that your moving goes well.  It will be exhausting and trying and frustrating and the best thing you've done in a long time.  Just remember, anything you do will be for YOU now.


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## Bruce

LOTS of stress will be off your mind by 10 AM Monday 

Moving isn't all that fun, but it will be worth it when you aren't suffering your landlords anymore. Want to do something? Yep, just do it, no need for permission from the landlord, no waiting for them to decide to do it (or not).


----------



## Latestarter




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## Baymule

The best of everything to you and your husband. When we talk to you next, you'll be telling us all about how the house is yours and moving in it.


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## misfitmorgan

Closing done and we got the keys......now the moving starts


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## promiseacres

Super happy for you!!!


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## frustratedearthmother

That's great - happy for ya!


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## CntryBoy777

Oh what a Wonderful Day!!...


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## AClark

Awesome! After all of that hassle you finally have your home. I know moving sucks, believe me, but it'll be great moving into your new home and getting everything where you want it and settling in! Congrats!


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## RollingAcres

misfitmorgan said:


> Closing done and we got the keys......now the moving starts



Congratulations! Good luck with your move!


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Closing done and we got the keys......now the moving starts


 Finally through that tunnel!!!

After all that I bet you want to but no time now! 

Thanks for letting us know "early", much appreciated.


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## farmerjan

SUPER CONGRATS !!!!!


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## Baymule

*HOORAY FOR YOU!!! IT'S YOURS!!!!

*


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats!


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## Latestarter

Really fantastic news! So happy for you. Hope you have many happy years there!


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## babsbag

Somehow I missed closing day. You are probably all moved in my now...congratulations.


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## goatgurl

like babs I'm just catching up.  i'm so happy for youall.  I hope by now you are all moved in.  don't get stressed out if you don't get all unpacked for 6 months.  just find the important things and take it one day at a time.  I hope youall will make it your own.  congratulations kiddo.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you so much everyone!!

Wow we are still moving. Got everything out of the old trailer as of last friday. 

All the livestock is moved and in temporary pens or stalls. The goats, sheep, geese and llama ended up being put into the old wood shed/car port thingy(looks like someone took an aluminum carport and build a wood building around/over it) with their electric net fence. DH and a friend of ours built a large sturdy pen on the one end of the workshop where it looks like it used to be some sort of large chicken coop or dog run, the floor is dirt over there and it has a pop door. The pigs have no outside access for now but it seems to be working for a bit and may become their winter set-up. The two mini pigs are loose in the rest of the shop along with all the poultry except the geese. The mini pigs will be put out with the sheep/goats. The poultry i think are going to go in the bottom of the "barn" for winter. 

We found there is an old water line that runs to the old barn but it needs fitting and to be hooked back up to the water supply. It's black pipe and is sticking out of the basement wall on the inside. The old barn is the 2 story building, the second floor is built like a loft but there is no hatch to drop hay down. one half of the downstairs has two head gates and a poop gutter and the water line comes out on that side like they had a heated waterer installed at some point. They definitely look to have had a few cows, like 2-4 but a smaller breed like jersey.

Maybe half of the house stuff is in the house the rest is living in the garage. Still have around 2,000 square bales to move and something like 55 small round bales to move. Probly 15 more trips but we are all so so worn out and stick of moving.

Apple trees look to have produced decently for not being pruned in probly 2 yrs or sprayed. The livestock are enjoying the apples but the deer got probly 95% of them....there is maybe 6 apples on the ground under the 18 apple trees. Same for the grapes, they produced like gangbusters but the deer ate every single grape after the 2nd frost. The grapes look to be some sort of white concord variety, definitely a jelly grape.

The longer drive to work really sucks but other then that we are pretty happy with the place. I'm dying to start tearing out paneling but my body and budget say no way atm.


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## Baymule

I am so happy for you! Yes, you are exhausted and you aren't done yet, even after you get everything moved, you will still be moving things around for awhile. But you have almost everything at your new home, now comes the "settling in" and making it your own. I hear ya' about the paneling. Maybe you can paint it for now to make it easier to live with. I hate a dark gloomy house.


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## Mike CHS

I'm really happy that you got past all of the contract unknowns.  You had about the hardest pre-move situation that I have ever seen.


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## Bruce

No more messing with bankers. No more messing with psycho landlords 

 all around.


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## babsbag

Ahh, moving and all the joys that go with it. Took us 9 months of weekends to get moved and we didn't own livestock. But we were also 3 hours away so we couldn't make little trips and each time we went to get more stuff I knew it would be the last. Finally was but oh was it a long ordeal. Glad that you are making progress and in short order you will be done.


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## Latestarter

Congrats and I'm really happy that it finally came together for you.   The final moving will happen in its time. The real fun will start shortly with fencing and improvements. Hope you'll share some pics as you go.


----------



## misfitmorgan

We are so glad we are done with banks and assessors and underwriters and mostly done with landlords.

Thanks so much for the fencing reminder @Latestarter  

We have decided as soon as we get time Eva, the two Barrows and the small pink gilt are going to freezer camp. Starting with the small pink gilt, she has a joint problem developing i her front elbows that looks to be causing her pain when she walks. Our friend was suppose to butcher her 2 weeks ago but he hasnt had time. She does still walk around and she eats and everything, you can just tell she is walking gingerly and her elbows are turning out. I hate to see her suffer for longer then she must but we honestly do not have time or energy to process a pig right this minute. DH offered her to a guy at work for trade later as he has a big family but not much money and he is waiting for his answer, but DH told him he needs to decide because she needs to go quickly.

We dont feel like over wintering the barrows so they are going, they are around 200-225bs so reasonable size. Eva has been put on a diet so she is now less then 400lbs and mostly muscle but a whole lotta pig still.


----------



## Bruce

@Latestarter will be right up to help with the fencing he so kindly reminded you needs to be started


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## Latestarter

Were it only possible, I'd be happy to help. At issue is the fact that I haven't gotten my own place fenced yet and have many thousands of feet to go without the needed thousands to pay for it


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## Mike CHS

I'm not sure what wire goats need but we switched over to the Goucho wire from TSC for our perimeter and it's half the price of the Red Brand wire and 100 pounds lighter.  I wouldn't run lambs in it but the sheep haven't had any problem with it.  I love the way it stretches and since we run low hot wire to keep the sheep from leaning into it we don't have a problem with it stretching.  It also handles all the dips and rises in our pasture.


----------



## Bruce

Is the Gaucho knotted rather than welded? And what is the spacing of the wires? Is it large enough the lambs could get their heads stuck and why you wouldn't use it for them? The TSC site is kinda scant on details.


----------



## Mike CHS

I don't know the specs off the top of my head but it is wider than Sheep and Goat.  A new borne lamb can go through a cattle panel and it isn't much different spacing.


----------



## Bruce

Wouldn't be "small predator" proof then either. Oh well, figured it was worth a look.


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## Latestarter

Yeah, I can attest to the fact that a kid can go through a cattle panel for about the first 6-8 weeks of life and they have 4" squares (above the 3 lower cross wires). CC would climb through then get under the hay tarp to sleep at night. When she started doing that I'd freak out trying to find her. Regular (cheapest) "field fence" I believe has 6x6" holes. The (more expensive) sheep & goat is 4x4". The even more expensive no climb horse fencing I believe has 2x4" holes. It seems to double in price each advance. All of the 3 are "knotted", not welded. 

While a fox or bobcat might be an issue with a very young kid or lamb, they aren't big or generally strong enough to tackle an adult (maybe on a small breed they could?). Anything large enough to take on an adult won't fit through the 4" holes. I don't think an adult coyote or bob cat would fit through the 6" holes either, but they are quite capable of jumping a 4' fence if they want to. In an effort to save $$, when I do the front pasture I plan on using just the basic field fence as I plan to have cows up front primarily. I may put adult sheep up there with the cows, (from what I understand they are compatible as they eat different things differently) but no babies.


----------



## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> I'm not sure what wire goats need but we switched over to the Goucho wire from TSC for our perimeter and it's half the price of the Red Brand wire and 100 pounds lighter.  I wouldn't run lambs in it but the sheep haven't had any problem with it.  I love the way it stretches and since we run low hot wire to keep the sheep from leaning into it we don't have a problem with it stretching.  It also handles all the dips and rises in our pasture.


This it?
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...field-fence-14-ga-47-in-x-330-ft?cm_vc=-10005






*Specification* *Description*
Product Type: Field Fencing
Vertical Stays: 6 in.
Height: 47 in.
Brand: Bekaert
Length: 330 ft.
Top/Bottom Wires: 12-1/2 ga.
Filler Gauge: 14 ga.

Bekaert makes some good fence wire. I've used their barbed wire for years now.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Is the Gaucho knotted rather than welded?


Bruce, I'm not aware of anyone that makes HT welded fence wire. Unless there are different process now, the high temperatures in the spot welding would render each joint into low carbon, which would negate the whole premise of using HT to begin with. All the welded wire I know of is made of low carbon (mild) steel alloy, the exceptions maybe being custom stainless steel welded mesh.


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## goatgurl

a day at a time Misfit, a day at a time will get everything done.  remember you don't have to hurry so much now. i'm so glad youall are finally home.


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## Mike CHS

That is it @greybeard.  I really like working with that fencing on the steep slopes I'm currently doing.  I have a couple of dips on one today that went down almost 18' lower in the middle of a 10' span and the wire was able to cover the gap and go back to even on the smaller slope.  I couldn't have done that with the heavier gauge wire.  Not to mention it's light enough to do by myself.


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## misfitmorgan

Here the gaucho wire is $120 and the redbrand is $150 so not much savings for us. I was going to buy more electric net but the only card i can put anything on is my amazon store card and amazon has it on back order. I contacted premier1 but i didnt get an answer on when or if it would be restocked. They do now have electric net gates though 

We butchered the pink gilt with the bad joints yesterday. Suppose to do either Eva or the two barrow today. I also got 4 hoses fixed so we can run a hose instead of buckets down to water the pigs, until winter

I moved around the goat/sheep fence to give them more green to nibble on.


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## Baymule

Y'all really get serious in burchering. It makes a difference when you know what you're doing! We muddled through 3 pigs in June, but it took us longer. I know you feel better for putting the lame pig in the freezer.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Yah, you guys are fast. Even when you say something is on hold, you accomplish it. Puts me to shame. The improvements shoukd really help you out in convenience and time, etc. You have a lot of ideas to what needs done. It will all come together.
Blessings on your new place, family, and herds.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I also got 4 hoses fixed so we can run a hose instead of buckets down to water the pigs, until winter


Supposed to go down to 30°here tonight which likely means 25°. High tomorrow 39° (probably lower), low overnight again 30°. The alpacas' auto waterer has already had a thin sheet of ice on the surface twice in the last few weeks and the temp wasn't much below 32°. I drained the hoses today! First I filled 4 cat litter "Jerry jugs" and put them in the barn near the alpacas' area. Shouldn't freeze in the barn just yet.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The gilt didnt have much on her at all for meat or fat. She was getting pushed off feed by the bigger pigs which was ultimately the decision to go ahead and take care of her yesterday. Knowing walking is painful is one thing but seeing the sudden weight drop because they are half starving is another. We do not tolerate animals going hungry very well and we could not justify building her a pen of her own when she was going to be butchered. She was boned out and ground up the killing and boning took about 1.5hrs including set up, grinding took about 3hrs. I also processed 3 chickens for our friend while they were working on the pig.

That type of field fence by gaucho is what we use we just use the redbrand version of it. We have the electric net so anyone with a baby will be in the net until the babies are weaned. Adults cant get thru the fence and we have the llama which so far keeps all predators out.

We plan on filling large barrels and putting water deicers in them. Then we only have to do water once a week, so we can reel out the hoses, fill jugs, drain hoses and put them back in the basement.


----------



## Bruce

Depends on how cold it is! I once tried draining my well tank (thought it was water logged) in the depth of winter. Um, no good, the water in the part of the hose that was outside the basement froze. It was a pretty long hose and I'm sure that didn't' help. I had to do it with 5 gallon buckets which was not fun. I can't even get water out of the frost free sillcock at the house when it is much below freezing, the water freezes up at the spout so no "reel out the hose" for me.

But I do have my @CntryBoy777 inspired "in barn winter water" rain barrel. Similar to yours, deicer in there and the barrel is boxed on all sides, top and bottom with 2" rigid foam. I will refill it come the inevitable January thaw.


----------



## misfitmorgan

We would plan to drain the hose and coil it up and put all of it in the basement no longer attached to the outside faucet. If the outside faucet is froze we have a blow torch to thaw out that 3 inches of pipe but we also plan on putting one of those winter cover thingys on it. We also have two outside faucets atm. We contemplated fixing the water pipe that runs to the two story barn but for this winter it wouldn't make a difference because the building wouldnt be heated or have livestock in it.

I dont think we get quite as cold here in winter as you do up there but we shall see, worst case we will be bucketing water all winter like we have for the past 3 winters.

Next 3 days we have  43/27F, 44/31F, and 36/20F....snowfall up to an inch on thursday then 29/21F for friday.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Sorry to hear that abt the gilt. I see why you sped up the slaughter now. Good to have compassion on even the things we eat, all the way up to and through dispatching them. With all the work you guys had going on, it shows a lot of character.


----------



## Bruce

I imagine the only reason to fix that water line now is if it goes to one of those "drain down" freeze proof faucets AND is closer to the animals than the house is.


----------



## Baymule

Ya'll sure make me glad that our water freezes up maybe 2-3 times a year. Toting hot water to pour on the ice is no fun.


----------



## Bruce

I'm still surprised it gets that cold down in TX! Never would have guessed, it isn't like you are way up on a mountain.


----------



## Baymule

It can get down in the low 20's or high teens. Once in awhile we get snow! But it never lasts long.


----------



## Mini Horses

Cold & winter are NOT my thing.   I've had power out several days when ice/snow were on the ground and it's a lot of work!  Generator runs pump, house needs, etc.  But it takes way more to run several heated tubs than I want to share.  So then, I tote it...fussing & cussing the whole time.  

Some of you Northern people have few real options.


----------



## misfitmorgan

It would be great if the water line went down to a frost free but we dont have time or money to put that in atm.  That water line runs from the basement to the two story barn which is much closer to the shop then the house. Let me get a map.



 Hopefully thats readable. The purple arrow is where the water line goes. This is the area of the property we are currently using.


----------



## Bruce

I didn't know if there was already a frost free in the 2 story barn and only the pipe needed repair. Guess not. Doesn't look like a faucet in the 2 story would save you any effort at all this winter anyway.


----------



## Baymule

What a great place! Yeah, it will be a lot of work to make it yours, but you'll have fun doing it. I love all the out buildings and the pond!


----------



## Latestarter

I don't know... were it me, I think I'd want the garden closer to the house and the animals back where the garden spot is now... side advantage of water available for the animals from the pond... Either way, looks like a great start for you folks!


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## Mike CHS

You have an awesome amount of possibilities with this place.


----------



## CntryBoy777

One thing is for sure...it is yours and it may take even a couple of yrs to get it setup just the way you'd like it to be, but when it is it is still yours and nobody can chew your ear about it or screw it up for ya.....it truly is a Great feeling to be the decision maker and the only ones to please....except the animals of course....


----------



## misfitmorgan

***This post has a picture some may find graphic***

The goat/sheep pen is temporary. There is a farm driveway that runs just out of shot on the south side of that picture, we will be building animals shelters to the south of that driveway and then making pasture out there after some of that land is cleared. What is shown in that picture is only roughly 2 acres of the 12 we now own so lots of room for other animals. Also where the sheep and goats are is actually not level at all really. The grade runs from about 15ft behind the house and drops one full story by the time you get to the west side of the 2 story barn. You can not see the road and no one can see you at that point, the current garden spot of dead flat as is most of the rest of the property past that point.

Here are some pics too!

pig pens




Wood we got last night  for free from DHs work


 
Helga and Mr Pig in their pen




The pink gilt that had to go, i ment to take pics throughout the process but i got busy processing chickens.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> pig pens


Um, those are ducks. 

Nice load of wood!!!!


----------



## Baymule

Score on the free wood! Your barn looks so darn good! Your animals are going to love their new place!


----------



## Pastor Dave

Really great looking place from the aerial map. Plenty of new projects with all tbat wood!


----------



## misfitmorgan

I know those are ducks 

The poultry is in there for now too, it is the only spot we had to put them atm.

Those pens are actually in the east end of DHs new workshop  the big pen that goes across the whole end is a dirt floor(old dog or poultry pen with a pop door) the smaller pen on the left is helga and mr pig's pen and it is on cement hence the thick layer is hay for bedding. Helga and Mr' pigs pen is approx 5.5 x 8ft and plenty big for them. The big pigs pen is approx 10 x 20ft. We will be either dividing the big pigs pen or building another pen by helga and mr pigs pens for the hereford trio to be split off. That will leave laverne, spot, and sarah in the giant pen so we will probly just split the big pen.

We love free wood!! There will be more to be had as well. The last free wood was 16' 2x6s the ones those pens are built with plus around 8 more left from that load. DH is going to stockpile lumber for building animals buildings and pens in the spring.


----------



## Latestarter

2x6x16's aren't cheap either. nice haul!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Definately not at all cheap and they make really nice pens. Those  2x6s were seconds that were going to be chipped and used by a local energy company aka sold to them for 15cents a pound.....can you imagine


----------



## Bruce

Well 15 cents a pound is more money than giving them away free!


----------



## misfitmorgan

In theory yes but the energy company is across the street and has enough wood chips that they are not using the wood from DHs work.....they have not used it in 2+yrs and they still have enough chips and other wood products coming in they won't run out for at least another 2+yrs if they stopped accepting new stuff now.

So the problem is DHs work throws all their wood scrap and rejects over in a pile on DHs works property for the energy company to take...but they dont get paid until the energy company chips the wood and takes it over to be weighed before going on the chip piles. So his company has made nothing on those boards for 2+yrs now and wont make anything for another 2+yrs at least. The company was also recently bought out by some canadian company.

The last time anyone can recall the energy company actually taking anything off that pile for chips was so long ago the original owner was still alive and he died 4yrs ago. So giving the rejects away for free actually doesnt make much difference at this point.


----------



## Bruce

Nope and it sure is nice they are willing to let the pile go for free. At the very least it opens up wasted space for other purposes.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I would guess the alternative would be as the pile continues to grow (out of control and with no reduction in sight), at some point, the fire department is going to label it a fire hazard, hence insurance costs will skyrocket if not removed, and removal will cost them, so no money coming in & lots of money going out. so... Sure, take all you want! Went through this at my last employer. They had to lease these huge roll on roll off dumpsters and asked for (conscripted) volunteers to work extra time to clean the back 3 acres up. What a mess it was back there...


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> (conscripted) volunteers


My daughter's friend used the term "voluntold" when his parents did that.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I was wrong, DH corrected me. His work would be paid 1.5cents per pound if the energy place actually took any of the wood.

Meanwhile DH and our friend Tommy build a third pen in the workshop on Saturday and on Sunday we made temporary loft hay storage across the tops of all the pens and now have around 100 bales of hay stored above the pigs. Two birds with one stone because have more storage for hay and they pigs have roofs so they will stay warmer.





Thats DH in red and our friend Tommy in the tan. The pens are all 4ft tall and you can easily climb them because of the spaced out boards on top. The left pen is Mr pig and helga, the big pen is behind DH and Tommy which is where Eva, Sarah, Laverne and Spot are, and now the pen on the right has the herefords and two barrows. All piglets are still at Tommy's house for now. DH has two more lights he is going to install in the big pen as well since it is kinda dark in there with all the hay "lofts" we put in.
Sunday we also moved 350+ bales of hay to the new farm and two loads of misc stuff.

Friday my boss asked me if i could make 48 cupcakes for his daughter and he needed them Sunday night, i told him yes.....extra money   The order was for galaxy cupcakes, everyone loved them and today my boss asked if he could give my phone number out because other people wanted to order some cupcakes for their kids birthdays and such.


 

 
Not the best lighting because it was 8:30 at night but they came out good. I think if i ever made them again i would just a much bigger piping tip so i could get more height on them.

DH is going hunting tomorrow so hopefully he gets a nice size deer.


----------



## Hens and Roos

cool looking cupcakes!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya did a good job on those cupcakes....and it looks like DH is getting things in order in the barn fairly quickly....everything is sure looking Good and sooo glad ya are working on your own place, I know that is certainly comforting knowing that too....


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Sunday we also moved 350+ bales of hay to the new farm and two loads of misc stuff.


 If those are 40# bales (likely the lightest they might be) that is over 14,000 pounds!

Good work on the barn, no moss grows under your feet or DH's!


----------



## Baymule

What a smart idea, putting the hay over the pigs! Things are coming together.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Hens and Roos said:


> cool looking cupcakes!


Thank you!



CntryBoy777 said:


> Ya did a good job on those cupcakes....and it looks like DH is getting things in order in the barn fairly quickly....everything is sure looking Good and sooo glad ya are working on your own place, I know that is certainly comforting knowing that too....


It is a lot of work but it is nice knowing it is for our own place and not other people.



Bruce said:


> If those are 40# bales (likely the lightest they might be) that is over 14,000 pounds!
> 
> Good work on the barn, no moss grows under your feet or DH's!


The lightest is about 45lbs but they go up to 100lbs pretty easily, i would say the average is 65lbs per bale. Let me tell you what though my back still hurts  We try to get as much done as we can each day and hope we make it to a reasonable state before snow flies. Atm the pigs are all set with the exception of their water tank which needs to be moved to the new place and an insulation box built around it. DH is going to make the box so he can put full bales of hay all around the tank and a thick layer underneath.




Baymule said:


> What a smart idea, putting the hay over the pigs! Things are coming together.


DH thought of it actually, he is a very smart man. The only downside is now the workshop feels crowded but that could be the almost 200 bales stacked on the floor 

Mr Pig and Helga got out of their new pen(gate was held shut with twine) and made a mess of the shop...it is like half cleaned up atm.

Between Hay, a pile of tin we were given and the free wood stack....the shop is getting pretty dang crowded. We also have 55 round bales we need to move onto the new place...when that will happen i dunno.


----------



## Pastor Dave

At the rate you guys work, I suspect your next post will tell us you got the round bales moved. 
It has to feel great knowing the hard work is finally for you on your own place. Real happy y'all are getting so much accomplished the way you want it before winter. You weren't given a long season either, but you'll have a long year coming up to start working, Lord willing. Think of this time as a bonus or O.T. before the game has begun.


----------



## Baymule

*PICTURES!!!!!*


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## misfitmorgan

I put up pictures......the other day....i will see if i can remember my phone today to get more.


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## Bruce

Yeah we want to see @misfitmorgan stuck in all those bales unable to get out of the workshop/barn


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## misfitmorgan

Well it not that full lol its a big workshop....like something between a 6-8 car garage size.

From a scaled google shot the building are approx 24 x 58 shop, 24 x 30 2 story barn, 18 x 24 goat/sheep shed and 28 x 32 garage.


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## Sara Ranch

It's exciting to read and to see your progress!

Does it feel like you aren't doing enough, fast enough?

I feel that way around here.  But when I look out, I do see progress.  And I know that I need to get off the computer and go make some more progress!   

Congrats on your new place and ALL the PROGRESS you and DH and friend Tim have made!!!


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## Bruce

You've got some nice buildings there. My shop is one bent of a 5 bent barn. WAY bigger than the basement shop at my prior house but not big enough.


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## Pastor Dave

It's too bad you're lacking for building space 
 love the idea of a double story barn.


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## CntryBoy777

Just remember with each trip made...there is 1 less to make. Y'all will get it done and will be able to collapse for at least a day before putting it in order....no need to push yourself to the point of injury...that wouldn't do ya or DH any good at all....


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## misfitmorgan

I forgot pictures 

It is hunting season after all and it is a bit busy here

We didnt really get anything done this weekend because of a series of unfortunate events. 

DH and i were to go to the blind after work on friday instead of being off at 2:30 he wasnt off until 4:00 which means only about an hour til dark so we booked it to the blind. Sat out there until 5:30 then headed back to the house. Didnt see a thing.

I grabbed my shopping list for a walmart trip and we were off. We made it to the gas station 4 miles from the house and DH decided to stop for a snack cause we were both starving and....its always bad to go to walmart hungry. Thats when DH realized he forgot his money. So back to the house we went....DH got his money..and we were off again.

About 30-40ft from our driveway going approximately 35mph a buck hit us. The buck was at a dead run and his force along with our 35mph took out the passenger side headlight, passenger side front quarter panel, the grill insert, the decorative chrome piece that goes over the headlights, my $42 chrome bowtie and the insert that goes behind the grill that holds the headlights in, as well as messing up the bumper.

So back home we went, DH grabbed a heavy coat and a knife and went back out to find the buck. He was in the ditch injured enough to not be going anywhere and down, DH cut his throat and tossed him in the back of his truck. He took the buck down to the shop, hung him up and started skinning him out while i assessed the damage to the trailblazer. The buck was not very large despite being 5-7yrs old and having a pitiful 6 point rack, he was obviously fighting for weeks from being in rut and it didnt look like he was winning a lot of fights. DH believes that is what he was on a dead run from, another buck who was kicking his butt. I've seen backstraps larger on a first year buck then on this one, he was in sad shape and had obvious signs of being beat up before the car impact.

So the trailblazer now has several new to me parts and a lovely blue front quarter panel where my matching grey one used to be. Worst part is.....they were all new parts i paid for out of pocket when i hit the deer this past april/may.

We have full coverage insurance but the deductable is $500 and i know from last time i bought the same parts to buy them new is around $350-400 so no point.

So yeah we didnt really get much of anything done at the farm this weekend. Hopefully this week is better and i still never made it to walmart.


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## misfitmorgan

oh i forgot to mentioned....my car also refused to start this morning so DH had to give me a ride to work, yay


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## Pastor Dave

Deer magnet, huh? Glad nobody got hurt. Was any quarters salvageable? On the deer, I mean?


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## misfitmorgan

Yes all but the left front and rear.


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## Pastor Dave

Not the way you wanted to get one, but at least ya didn't have to use your tag, right?


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## Baymule

That's the hard way to deer hunt. Maybe you should try deer whistlers on your vehicle.


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## Sara Ranch

*hugs*  You got a deer!  That's a plus.

And your insurance company won't know about the car owie.  That's a plus.

And your and DH got to spend some quality time in the car together this morning.  That's a plus.


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## Bruce

Um a LOT of "quality time"!


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## farmerjan

Oh, I do feel for you on the deer/truck magnet.... I get at least one a year with the truck going to work at the crazy hours some of these farmers have to milk.  Usually at 2 in the morning there isn't anyone around to help and they always seem to be able to run off far enough that I can't see them and I am going to be late for work..... kinked the drivers front fender/and door so that I couldn't get the door open and I went on to the dairy and my farmer got it pried apart enough to get it open.  One before that got the right front fender and busted up the plastic grill on the truck but at least the headlight still worked.  A little duct tape took care of the one broken piece that helped to keep the light in place.  It is a "farm use" vehicle so doesn't have to pass inspection...but has to be functional and road worthy. And I only carry liability on it,  not full coverage.  But gee whiz....  Came within inches of a huge buck the other morning.  He came off the bank,and swerved as I caught the movement and we went in opposite directions enough to miss each other....that was with my car....I will be so glad when the rut is over.  Not the way I want to get my venison.
I don't seem to get alerts on half the different threads I follow so have had to get caught up on your move and all.  Glad that the things are getting slowly put into place.  Do you still have alot more to move?  Is there any flack from the old landlords about the hay and all?  
We are having to move everything from a place we have rented for 24 years.  It's a hassle and we hate to lose the pasture but it was sold and the new landowner has other plans. Can't blame him but to listen to him I think he is about 2 bricks short of a load.  The ideas/plans he has don't make a bit of sense.... nor will some of them work but guess he will have to find that out on his own.  Isn't interested in any advise and has never farmed before....  but losing the pastures, and the use of storage of the barn is really hurting us.  Plus it was a good friend and he lost his wife last year, so we lost friendship/contact too.


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## Baymule

That bites @farmerjan about having to move after 24 years. Did you live on the property too?


----------



## farmerjan

No, this was a rented pasture.  The friend and his wife lived there.  He drove for Yellow freight then retired a few years ago.  She had cancer and lost the fight about 1 1/2 yrs ago.  He put it on the market to move closer to one of his daughters, and when it sold it was written into the agreement that we would have until the end of Nov  on the lease.  But we had alot of stuff we stored in the barn during the winter;  wagons and a sq. baler and a rake and in the downstairs part we have our portable cattle chute set up so we could pregnancy check the cows there and all that is getting moved.  Plus divided up for rotational grazing along with a 22 acre piece across the road.  And once he retired, he would take care of the water troughs, and liked to fix fence and stuff.  We had it good, but they were also good friends.  It's hard to pull out after so many years.  And hard to look at it and not see them there.  It is alot better to keep equipment inside under roof so it lasts longer too.


----------



## Baymule

Where are you moving all your stuff to? Sounds like a big job!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Did get to save my tag true. 

Bay people tell me deer whistlers dont work... 

@Sara Ranch those would be the bright points yes 
thank you for pointing them out

If i hit any other deer and i have the $500 on hand for the deductible i am so taking it to the shop to be fixed. We still have maybe 6 more trips of things to move but we have been putting it off because we were waiting on the new hub i got for DHs truck to arrive....it did but the flange is the wrong thickness so i was to send it back....but i decided instead to just order a matching one because DH said the driver side would need a new hub probly within 6 months so waiting now on the second one to arrive so he can put them on the truck. We had so much stuff at the old farm after only 2yrs i cant imagine how much stuff you would have after 24yrs....that really sucks you have to move it all and dont have places to put it. I think it also sucks a lot you lost your friends


----------



## Bruce

So you STILL have to pay rent at the other place since you still have stuff there? Bummer.


----------



## misfitmorgan

No the other place was rented out to the landlords grandkid as of november 5th so no more rent payments for us. We still have stuff outside but they said dont worry just get it when you can......that is a long story for another day.


----------



## Bruce

So the PITA landlords are all nice now? Well, get the stuff soon as you can and forget about them


----------



## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> No the other place was rented out to the landlords grandkid as of november 5th so no more rent payments for us. We still have stuff outside but they said dont worry just get it when you can......that is a long story for another day.



Waiting. On. Long. Story.............


----------



## misfitmorgan

Ok so....that long story.

We closed on the house and started moving, the landlords stating calling us repeatedly starting 3 days after closing. I refused to answer because I was busy and stressed and didnt feel like dealing with them. So on Nov 4th they left a message that said they would consider us moved out of the trailer as of the 5th of Nov and not to worry about our stuff outside we could get it whenever.

Meanwhile their niece and her hubby and kids have been living in our landlords garage for the past 4 months. Landlords told them either you rent the farm for $700 month and give us $450 for the security deposit or get out and be homeless. So this young couple were at the farm starting on the 5th and were told to clean and repair the place(so much for a security deposit). The landlords also told them that all the stuff on the property was from us and we trashed the place. They told them we were never on time with the rent and our dogs were a nuisance and all kinds of other lies. The landlord told them that if they scrapped off all the metal on the place he would split the money with them...including our stuff like our manure spreaders, plow, tiller, tractor, hay elevators, grain elevators, silo, rabbit cages, running gear for a hay rack, etc.

DH had a long chat with them and told/showed them all the problems with the trailer and how it really wasnt going to be liveable for them and their kids. The landlords also told them they are not allowed at all to heat with a wood stove and could only use the furnace they are putting in...nevermind there are no floor vents now. They is no possible way to heat that place with a furnace it would cost $500/month in propane. DH also told them about the problems with the water lines freezing for weeks. I dunno if they are still moving in there or not. 

They also told DH that the husband landlord told the (landlord wifes)niece he wanted to take pictures of her naked in the hay field. So they will probly move about anyplace to get away from them.

So now we are trying to get our stuff off of that place before the landlords try to pull any crap because i still own them $300 for that last 15days or whatever of rent. The delay now is DH getting his hubs swapped over.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is really sad that those kind of people exist, but it reminds me of the in-laws that are in Michigan....I don't blame ya for being in a rush to get your stuff off the property and I would get it even if it had to be stored outside, oiled down and covered with a tarp til something could be done better. The sooner ya can cut ties to them for good, the better ya will be. When ya get all your stuff and are leaving for the very last time...brush off your shoulders and tap the dust off your shoes....it may sound silly, but ya will be amazed as to the events that will develop a bit later on....and just tell the Father that it is in His hands.....


----------



## Baymule

What wacko low lifes. I pray that you can quickly get the rest of your stuff out of there before the thieves steal it from you. Take pictures of everything just in case you need proof.


----------



## misfitmorgan

It's sad and frustrating but thankfully i dont really have to deal with them anymore. If we lose some stuff in the process oh well.

Nothing new at the farm really, just been hunting and I started putting up Christmas decorations. My one very broody pycheon hen hatched a chick before we moved her from the old farm. DH hadn't seen her in like 2 weeks and didnt know what had happened to her but we found her in the hay loft on a nest with two chicks. Sadly one didnt make it but the other seems to be doing well so far.

We believe the three big girl pigs are bred by our hereford boar. We are waiting to see if they go into heat or not, it would put piglets are the middle/end of febuary which is reasonable for 4h piglets.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Oh i didnt mention either, my polled buck Tyrion was found dead yesterday in the pasture. It was very clear him and moon the stupid buck i dislike had a bad fight, they were getting along fine before that but i think the move stress during early rut and the much smaller pasture was just to much for them.


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## Baymule

You move to your own place, trying to make a permanent home for you and your animals and the thanks you get is murder in the buck pen. Stupid buck. Well, after he fulfills his purpose and breeds your does, is he on the short list for BBQ or sale? 

I hope your sows are bred and present you with healthy litters. Do you sell them to 4H and FFA kids? That is good news about the hen and her chick, glad your husband found her and got her moved to her new home. You went hunting, that is good for clearing all the garbage out of your head. Time spent outdoors in the quiet with no interruptions is time well spent, whether you shoot anything or not.


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## misfitmorgan

Very stupid buck! DH wants to eat him I just want him gone fast. The problem with eatting him is he would need to be castrated and he is 3yrs old now as well as our only buck atm.

I hope they are too! We sell pigs to 4h/FFA yes. The mixed breed pigs are sold pretty cheaply to the 4h kids at $50/each, the herefords will be $100 each if they want show stock. We do give discounts to families that have to buy multiple pigs. We also sell our goat kids and this year should be some lambs to sell as well.

I do like to go hunting but DH is sooooo loud i get annoyed sometimes


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## Latestarter

Sorry to hear about your polled buck. That's a big loss, as that gene is no longer available to pass on to future kids.  Yeah, loud and hunting rarely go together and the peace and serenity of just sitting quietly and blending into the background is great for the brain. I've enjoyed many naps while doing so.


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## Bruce

Heck with waiting on the hubs for the truck! I'd find some way to rent a truck and trailer big enough to get all your stuff or hire someone to do it. You have a small fortune in "metal" over there. All those pieces you mentioned are worth many hundreds and in some cases thousands of $$


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## misfitmorgan

The peace and blending in is nice....my luck i will fall asleep and wake up to a deer staring at me some day.

I would if i could but we are so tight on cash atm we cant afford to do it. The new truck parts, new cars parts and parts from hitting the deer, plus all the expense we have already had moving and the first mortgage payment being due this friday....we just cant afford to hire or rent anything atm. The truck parts alone were over $200, plus over $100 in car parts, and then another $75 in deer parts. Atm we cant even afford trash service and thankfully we have lots of pork because thats the only meat we are eatting for now. Normally we keep a decent amount of cash in the savings for stuff like deer hits etc but getting this house wiped out all the savings we had plus money borrowed from my mom, a family friend and my best friend and $1,000 put on my credit card for the house insurance.


----------



## Bruce

Temporary stall on the road of homeownership  I remember eating a lot of egg salad sandwiches and PB&J when I bought my first house. Keep plugging along!


----------



## Pastor Dave

It'll all smooth out.


----------



## Latestarter

The first hurdle is the highest. You've cleared it and have the home. You take the time to recover and stabilize then onward you go.


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## Mike CHS

There was a couple of times in my life that I ate a whole lot of beans and a hot dog was like a steak but it all works out if you keep to your plan.


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## misfitmorgan

I'm sure things will be fine, just need some time to catch up on things. Christmas is going to be lean this year but i am sure everyone will understand. My sister also bought a new house and closed a week after i did, so she is definitely broke too.


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## Baymule

Nothing like a Christmas present with an IOU in it.  One year when my hens weren't laying, I gave a friend egg cartons with broken shells in them and an IOU from the hens. 

Another time I gave my Mom a hand made certificate with a list of things I would do for her. She appreciated it more than any present I could have bought her.


----------



## Pastor Dave

I am sure everybody gathered in yours or sister's home, eating and having fun is much better than everyone opening a bunch of presents. At least it's what I would prefer.


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## misfitmorgan

I'm not to worried about myself and presents i mostly just want the kids to feel like they got a good amount you know. This is the first christmas without my brother, it is going to be very hard on everyone. My mom already told me twice she doesnt want ot have christmas this year, i told her we have to for the kids.

In other news my brother-in-law was diagnosised with colorectal cancer, stage 1...they told him go in do surgery remove the tumor no problem no treatments. They got in there and found out he has stage 3 not stage 1. They told him he would have to talk to a specialist and have more surgery and a colostomy bag(he is so not thrilled) and then radiation or chemo. He will be down in Ann Arbor until the week of Christmas at least. Hopefully they can get it into remission and do reconstruction so he can lose the bag, the poor man is only in his late 40s and just got recovered from  heart surgery last year. 

With all that is going on my dad decided we would have Christmas at his house in January and we are all fine with that. Christmas at my moms should still be Christmas day.

DH has decided he wants to wait until its colder to butcher more pigs because he wants to scold and scrap instead of skin. So Eva and the barrows had a small reprieve for a bit. Then we will be making ham and bacon 

In other news, Tommy is coming over tonight with his tools so the hubs can get swapped on the truck, then Saturday we are going to get hopefully the final loads of stuff off the old farm and i think Sunday we have to move our round bales....all 55 of them. 

I also ordered mushroom spawn for Blue Oyster and Shiitake and received them. I got Shiitake for DH and blue oyster for myself, we should start growing them soon.  We are really just experimenting this winter and then we will set up a larger grow closer to spring so we can have mushrooms to sell at the farmers market. My testing is different mixes of coffee grounds and vermiculite for the oysters, DH has a test he is going to do of wood chips vs sawdust and combination of them and then a little later a test of hardwood pellets versus whatever mix of chips/sawdust performs the best. I also have coco coir to try testing out but it is a giant block so i am going to do it last.

DH and i never got a deer for rifle season so we are hoping late doe will prove better in a couple weeks. Our ducks have been laying eggs for about 2 weeks now...the shop lights are not turned off ever because the pigs are in there. So DH installed the pigs own light for them and now we have the option to turn off the shop lights, not that he has. I think he likes the fact the ducks are laying....the chickens are not, even with the 24hr light and not being able to see outside.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Here are some crumby pictures of the big girls, the herefords and the barrows before we got them separated. I wasnt going to share them but better then nothing i think.

Left to right
Eva, Hereford Gilt, Laverne, Backfire(in front), in the back is a barrow.




Left to Right
Hereford Gilt, Backfire, Laverne



Left to Right, Back to front
Two Hereford Gilts, two barrows, Eva and Sarah.
They were all laying down relaxing when i walked up and started snapping pics....Eva is still laying in this pic.



We also need to get the herefords and Mr pig/helgas pen cleaned out this weekend....the cement doesnt drain. The big girls are doing fine in their pen with their poo corner and soon i think they will root their way to freedom 

Some of the holes in their pen floor are 2ft deep, i'm not mad at them though they had a long stretch of being on concrete and only being able to root hay. We may end up butchering Laverne, shall see what kind of litter she gives us. She is the fattest pig in the big girl pen despite not being the largest and she is carrying her fat in her face so much so that she cant fully open her eyes anymore. Her first farrow may change that though, she is still a gilt.

I know Bay you want more better pics of the herefords 

I will try i just always forget my phone when we go to do chores.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure hate to hear about the BIL and I'm sure news like that is really hard on him given his age.....our Prayers are certainly with all of your family thru such a tough situation....
The pigs sure look to be happy....and the mushrooms sound like an interesting venture, hope it works out well for ya....and ya can't beat those ducks laying for ya either....we can always count on our little Khaki girls to do their fair share....


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## Baymule

Christmas is supposed to be a happy day, but for many, it is a day of high stress. Just make it through and on to New Year. Prayers for you BIL, that is so young to be facing what he is going through. 

Put your phone in your pocket! I love the Herefords, even a fuzzy picture is ok with me. 

That is interesting about the mushrooms. Have never tried to grow them. We like them, I might have to entertain that idea someday. Have you grown them before?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thanks @CntryBoy777  and @Baymule  The pigs are pretty happy. We are up to at least two ducks laying now, I wish they would quite, if they keep it up DH will want to hatch some and I am so not up for winter ducklings because i know where they will have to live until they fledge. The momma hen still has her chick, i am so hoping it is a female, it is already almost completely fledged and a dark grey color.

I still forgot my stupid phone...all weekend. We did not get pens cleaned out this weekend but we did get the hubs changed on the truck...yay 

DH has grown mushrooms many times, he also harvests wild mushrooms.....so far i dont like most of them but i think that is how he cooks them. He cooks mushroom very dry with high heat and i like mine pretty darn moist. I do love morels though!! This is the first time i'm trying to grow them and the first DH has since we have been together. He has talked about it many times but there never seemed to be time in spring/summer/fall...now we have this giant house there is room to grow them inside so we can play with them in the winter when there is time.

My Blue oyster experiment is hopefully off to a good start, i am waiting to see mycelium growing. At least 4-5 days before i will see anything and maybe longer. If it goes well the blue oyster will start fruiting in 20+ days, so T-18. Would be sooner but i left my substrate sit on the kitchen counter for a week after i sterilized it to make sure the coffee grounds werent going to mold or show contamination.


----------



## Latestarter

Just me, but I'd rather play with any of the animals over the mushrooms... I think you'll find them to be rather "non responsive"...    Why do you sterilize the substrate? In the outside wild world, they don't have that? Does it make a huge difference?


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> We are up to at least two ducks laying now, I wish they would quit, if they keep it up DH will want to hatch some and I am so not up for winter ducklings because i know where they will have to live until they fledge.


If you cook them, he can't hatch them


----------



## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Just me, but I'd rather play with any of the animals over the mushrooms... I think you'll find them to be rather "non responsive"...    Why do you sterilize the substrate? In the outside wild world, they don't have that? Does it make a huge difference?



They may be non-responsive but supposedly super easy to grow. In the wild mushrooms have an entire wild to find a spot they like to grow, in the not wild we want them to grow where we want them and to give them the best chance we sterilize or pasteurize substrate to kill any competition, mold, or bacteria. I used, used coffee grounds which most people will know will mold quickly...sterilizing it kills the bacterial that causes it to mold....supposedly. We shall see.



Bruce said:


> If you cook them, he can't hatch them


I know....he has a stockpile in the workshop....i tried to feed them to the pigs he wouldnt let me lol. He has close to a dozen down there and another 4-5 in the house. I can only eat/use so many extra extra large eggs per recipe.


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## Bruce

Make eggnog! Easy to use LOTS of eggs in that.


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## Baymule

Cooking mushrooms dry on high heat? Isn't that a definition for burnt? 

I Like to saute mushrooms in butter or bacon grease. I have also cooked them in wine or cooking sherry.


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## Pastor Dave

Mushrooms cooked in scrambled eggs are pretty good too.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Cooking mushrooms dry on high heat? Isn't that a definition for burnt?
> 
> I Like to saute mushrooms in butter or bacon grease. I have also cooked them in wine or cooking sherry.



He starts out with butter and oil...the heat is so high the mushrooms suck that all up and the pan is dry then....makes dry mushrooms  I like my mushrooms nicely bathed in way to much butter/olive oil...probly....then again is there really ever to much butter......

I'm working on getting rid of the eggs...used two last night to make pie crust for empanadas...so good!! If only white bread used eggs i would be all out, since i have an oven again i make bread at least once a week.


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## CntryBoy777

Ooooo....fresh baking bread, I can smell it already....even way down here......


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## Pastor Dave

I used to make a stiffer dough than crescent dough by adding more flour,  and letting rise in the bowl, then a loaf pan before baking. But it was essentially a crescent recipe that used eggs as directed. I called it crescent bread. Everyone loved it. It could use up some of your eggs.


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## misfitmorgan

oooooo....i could just make crescents ........then egg salad......to make egg salad crescent sandwiches lol

interesting thought i just had.....is a crescent the same thing as a croissant? I've always used them interchangeably. 

Maybe I will make some this weekend, depends how much other stuff i need to do.


----------



## Latestarter

Crescents are a little different than croissants.  You may have seen the Pillsbury commercials for crescent rolls. I have NEVER been able to make that roll of dough come anywhere close to resembling a crescent roll though  So I just roll them ugly, cook them, butter 'em up and gobble 'em down.  Actually have a couple of cans and have been thinking about making some.


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## misfitmorgan

oh duh.....why didnt i think of that i have made those just several years ago now...maybe 5yrs ago

I think im going to make croissants, they just sound better and i love them but havnt had any in quite a long time.


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## Latestarter

Biggest diff I believe is that croissants have butter (lots) baked right into them. they're much flakier... Crescents are more like a dinner roll as opposed to a pastry.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Biggest diff I believe is that croissants have butter (lots) baked right into them. they're much flakier... Crescents are more like a dinner roll as opposed to a pastry.



I know after you said pilsbury i was like duh.... Crescents like bread....croissants like pastry with laminated dough.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I'm working on getting rid of the eggs...used two last night to make pie crust for empanadas...so good!! If only white bread used eggs i would be all out, since i have an oven again i make bread at least once a week.



DD1 makes a gluten and potato starch free bread that uses egg whites. Then you have to find something to do with the yolks.  Hello truffles!


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## Mike CHS

All this talk of fresh baked bread is making me hungry.  We need to find a no-yeast recipe for bread for Teresa and have tried several but not worth the effort.


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## CntryBoy777

I can make do with homemade buttermilk biscuits, butter, and honey, molasses, or sorghum....or just gravy....there's not any yeast in them....neither does cornbread....


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## Mike CHS

We do those things Fred but she wants bread.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'll look around and see what we have....I have some of my Mom's old recipes and some of them are without yeast, I believe. I sure don't blame her either....


----------



## promiseacres

How about some sugar cream pie for dessert?


----------



## Pastor Dave

I am not sure what my recipe was, Croissants or crescents, but they were good. I modified mine into loaves of bread. It was twenty years ago, but I was really into making breads and baked goods then.


----------



## Baymule

@Latestarter you can take those crescent squares, put a glop of your favorite jam in the middle, fold over, pinch the edges and bake. TA-DA! you just make a un-fried pie!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> DD1 makes a gluten and potato starch free bread that uses egg whites. Then you have to find something to do with the yolks.  Hello truffles!



I think thats normally called cloud bread....




Mike CHS said:


> All this talk of fresh baked bread is making me hungry.  We need to find a no-yeast recipe for bread for Teresa and have tried several but not worth the effort.



I would assume you have tried chemical leavened bread aka quick bread(such as soda bread)? Also sour dough? There are also recipes that use unpasteurized beer, buttermilk, kefir, or yogurt...these ones usually have baking powder included in the recipe to stabilize the leavening effect. You can also make a bread with whipped cream(heavy cream you whipped not coolwhip) that will already be partly "risen" when placed in the oven and will make a reasonable bread. 

This is a link to a sweet bread made with the whipped cream https://www.landolakes.com/recipe/17102/chocolate-chip-whipped-cream-loaf/ Whipped cream breads are hard to find recipes for that dont have yeast included....such a Japanese milk bread.

Why can't Teresa have yeast?


----------



## misfitmorgan

promiseacres said:


> How about some sugar cream pie for dessert?



Definitely sugar cream pie....i havnt had that in probly 10yrs!


----------



## Mike CHS

misfitmorgan said:


> I think thats normally called cloud bread....
> This is a link to a sweet bread made with the whipped cream https://www.landolakes.com/recipe/17102/chocolate-chip-whipped-cream-loaf/ Whipped cream breads are hard to find recipes for that dont have yeast included....such a Japanese milk bread.
> 
> Why can't Teresa have yeast?



It all has to do with allergies.  Sour dough is as close as we have come to a real 'bread'.  Many of the recipes we tried were more like cake.


----------



## misfitmorgan

store bought yeast has to do with allergies....?


----------



## Mike CHS

We do a lot of label reading.


----------



## misfitmorgan

That's something i've never heard of before, one would think sourdough would be worse since it uses wild yeast. There is yeast on pretty much everything apples, grapes, all vinegar, stock, anything pickled, mushrooms, anything fermented, really anything you even have open as a food product for awhile. That would really really suck, I hope you find a bread she likes and that doesnt bother her allergies.


----------



## Mike CHS

Naturally occurring doesn't seem to have as much of an impact but we avoid foods that have it added and we eat very little processed foods.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Maybe the wild yeast has other things with it that make it not so bad, kind of like honey has pollen and such in it, no idea but its a thought.

So on my way to work i hit another deer   

A very large doe decided to use my headlights to see when crossing the road...at a dead run. So the new parts we just put on i think 2.5 weeks ago are now busted again only on the other side. Headlight assembly, fender, bumper, bumper core, thing that holds the headlights and grill on, chrome piece that goes across the lights, hood. Now my drivers door doesnt open and the headlight is just kind of sitting in the hole where it is suppose to be. Junkyard we got parts from last time doesnt have the parts we need and i have zero dollars to order new parts atm.


----------



## CntryBoy777

When ya do have the $$ checkout rockauto.com, they have some really good prices. I had a year like your having about 16yrs ago....the little Kia I was driving at the time looked like it had been in a war after tangling with 3 deer on separate occassions.


----------



## Baymule

Did you at least pick up the deer and get your revenge by eating it? 

That sucks about all the damage.


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> When ya do have the $$ checkout rockauto.com, they have some really good prices. I had a year like your having about 16yrs ago....the little Kia I was driving at the time looked like it had been in a war after tangling with 3 deer on separate occassions.



My trailblazer is definately getting there!!



Baymule said:


> Did you at least pick up the deer and get your revenge by eating it?
> 
> That sucks about all the damage.



No, 2 other cars ran her over because she ended up in the other lane. Broke all of her legs and ripped her stomach cavity open. The man who owns the house by where i hit her asked if he could have her for coyote bait...i told him yes and we dragged her into his yard.


----------



## Baymule

Well at least it wasn't a total waste. Shoot a coyote over her and take the population down a notch or two. Neighbor called last night when he got home just after dark to tell us as he drove by, he spooked a coyote right up by our fence.


----------



## Latestarter

Gosh girl, you just can't seem to catch a break... Dang. Glad you're alright, even if your wheels aren't so much.


----------



## Bruce

Dang @misfitmorgan, we are all ready for your life to get EASIER!

I've been fortunate to have not hit a dear (insert knocking on wood emoji here) but was thinking about it (and scanning the road edges) tonight on my way back from MA. IF someone had a spare second and quick reactions would hitting the horn MAYBE cause them to retreat? Of course that likely would work only if they were still on the side of the road when you spot them.


----------



## misfitmorgan

We finally got snow!!...yay!!!....NOOOOOTTTT 

I was really very unrealistically hoping for zero snow this winter....at least it waited to show up until December 10th. So now the hose for watering the livestock lives in the basement, unreel...fill giant poly barrels up.....put hose in basement..repeat about every 3-5 days(thats the plan anyhow). They are now forcasting snow every day for the next 10 days in varying amounts...all total i think its only about 10inches worth though.

Nothing else new to report really....that i can think of atm.


----------



## Bruce

Ah, your now placid life without having to deal with banks!


----------



## Baymule

Does the water in the barn freeze or is it warm enough to keep it from freezing?


----------



## misfitmorgan

It is much less stressful but i keep forgetting its our house now lol...im still half expecting the landlords to show up and tell us we have to move.

Surprisingly the water in the barrels so far does not freeze. For comparasion yesterday the goat/sheep water barrel was frozen almost solid...it is half of a 55gal poly barrel....the poly barrels in the barn/workshop has a very slight ice crust like enough i could touch it with my hand and break it. The water on the floor from the ducks also hasnt been frozen yet. Over night was 14f and high today is 17f so we shall see how it fares. This winter is not suppose to be to bad, fairly mild so we might get away with it.

In other news my mushroom project is going like gangbusters!


----------



## Baymule

Sometimes we get a week of 20F weather and I carry boiling water to pour in the chicken and sheep water tubs/buckets. The horse tank I just smack with a shovel. 

You and your husband butcher your own hogs, don't you? Could you go visit a thread of a new member who is going to be butchering his own pigs soon? I am sure you will have something valuable to add to the posts. 

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/things-to-have-to-butcher-a-hog.37087/#post-529856


----------



## misfitmorgan

DH tried to break out the goat/sheep water last night in the dark...with a maul...no luck. I told him but he did not realize what i ment when i told him the waterer was frozen solid the day before. He is going to have to do it today in the daylight and flip the waterer to get the ice chunk out. Last night was way colder then they forecasted, water was freezing on the water buckets almost instantly. The water in the barn/shop in the poly barrels had a thicker ice crust but was breakable pretty easily with a 5gal bucket, the ducks water also had a good crust. DH said it was in the negative temps and that was around 6pm.

We did finally get the back side of the goat/sheep sheep shed closed in and put sheet metal over one side of the front of the shed to narrow the opening. We also put down two fresh bales of bedding so hopefully they stayed warm. DH wants to put one more sheet of metal on the other side of the front to reduce the door more, luckily that is the side that faces south though.

Yes @Baymule  we butcher our own, pretty much everything. I will go take a look.

DH finally got some mushroom spawn into grain jars to colonize so his experiment is 10 days behind mine exactly. Mine are only oyster, he is trying his shiitake and oyster.


----------



## Baymule

Negative temperatures?  The water bucket wouldn't be the only thing frozen--my Southern blood would freeze too!


----------



## misfitmorgan

lol yes, it was cold for us too because we have had such a mild and long fall so far. The actual temps last night was 8F...with windchill it was -12 to -20F. Last weeks average overnight temp was 25F so quite a drop for us. Tonight will be about the same with less wind though, the rest of the week a tad warmer keeping in the mid 20s for day temps and teens overnight, then next week will warm back up to mostly 30s. Least thats what it says atm and we all know how that goes. Yesterdays forecasted temp was 17F it was actually 25F.


----------



## Baymule

It was 32 here last night, going up to the mid 60's today, then back down. The sun is out, it's a pretty day!


----------



## misfitmorgan

well just rub that in......


----------



## Baymule

I've been playing on the computer waiting on it to warm up. LOL LOL I am RETIRED. I don't HAVE to go out before the butt crack of dawn to get things done, nor do I have to come home after work and go out with a flashlight. I did it many years, it feels good to take my sweet time.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I will be very happy when that day comes but i think it is a long ways off still for me. 

Atm i get up at 4:30am mon-fri, have to be to work for 6am then work until 3pm, home by 3:45pm, then chores, clean the house, make dinner, make DH lunch for work, do what needs done and generally can make it to bed by 10:30 or 11pm most nights. Weekends i'm often up until 1 or 2am trying to get things done friday night, wake up by 7-8am saturday morning, make breakfast, clean, do outside stuff, make lunch, lay around for a few tv shows, do more stuff(outside/livestock/move things/clean workshop/etc), make dinner, relax mostly and in bed by 1 or 2am again, then repeat for sunday and generally in bed by midnight.


----------



## Baymule

For years I barely got 6 hours of sleep a night. I had two speeds, Wide Open and Asleep. LOL  6 to 3 is good hours, you get off early enough that you have time to do things you need to do before you go home. I hated working nights and getting off at midnight to 2 AM. Finally decided that I would have to be_ hungry_ to ever work nights again. I was never that hungry.....


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Atm i get up at 4:30am mon-fri, have to be to work for 6am then work until 3pm, home by 3:45pm, then chores, clean the house, make dinner, make DH lunch for work, do what needs done and generally can make it to bed by 10:30 or 11pm most nights.


Ah to be young again, eh @Baymule??  Well maybe not 



misfitmorgan said:


> well just rub that in......


Bay is a very mean lady.


----------



## Mike CHS

But she seems to be enjoying her routine.


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> But she seems to be enjoying her routine.



Like many others, I have earned it! Loving life on the farm!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Ah to be young again, eh @Baymule??  Well maybe not
> 
> 
> Bay is a very mean lady.



I'm not THAT young 

Bay is one of my favorite BYH people so i don't mind her mean streak 

I will earn my relaxing time some day....hopefully before spring i will get a little extra.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Didnt get much done yesterday but the universal remote for the garage door openers arrived so i programmed it and stuck it in DH's truck. ATM the lucky bum gets to park in the garage because the truck is diesel and doesnt wanna start well outside.DH did stick a tester on it last night and found out it needs new glowplugs. 2 on driver side work and 1 on passenger side work, so 3 of 8 are working. Luckily those glowplugs for the truck are only like $6/each. If the garage ever gets emptied i can park inside and will use the universal remote to program my car's homelink so i ca use either side and DH will have the remote to use either side.

I shouldnt tell you...southern....people this but I'm hoping we can visit....Texas...this year to see DHs mother and brother who live there as well as DH wants to hunt the wild pigs....because we dont have enough pork


----------



## Baymule

You might want to plan that for the spring or fall......full blown summer might give you a heat stroke. We are used to it, and can't take the cold.  

We are about an hour east of Dallas, about 10 miles from I-20. Stop by and we'll put y'all up for the night!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bay if I recall right, you live by Tyler?

Looks like a 23hr trip.

Michigan to Chicago to Memphis to Little Rock to Dallas to Austin

or 

Michigan to Indianapolis to Memphis to Little Rock to Dallas to Austin

I would assume we could make a side trip or two esp for good reason....like visiting some fine folks.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Not sure summer would be too too horrible...we get temps almost to 100F here and 200% humidity......is it a dry heat?


----------



## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> Not sure summer would be too too horrible...we get temps almost to 100F here and 200% humidity......is it a dry heat?


Sounds like home to me! Make a side trip, stay a day or two and I'll round up @Devonviolet and @Latestarter , we'll have a great visit and eat a lot!


----------



## misfitmorgan

We shall see when the time gets closer but i would like that a lot!


----------



## Latestarter

Now I was hopin' (spectin') southern horsepitality would kick in and DevonV and I would get honorable mention in all these here plans!  Bay is a great and generous hostess! I know Shtuff happens, but it sure would be great if you find your way down here. I have a couple spare rooms as well, so really don't expect you'll be lacking for a free place to put your head down. Bout 300 or so miles from Austin to Mount Pleasant and Bay is an hour south west of me. Would love the opportunity to meet you folks. As for shooting wild hogs, yeah, doubt you're lacking for pork but more fun when they run.


----------



## greybeard

Can't speak for any of the other places but for no bigger than it is, Little Rock has some of the worst traffic and major interchanges in North America.

I-30 looks good on a map, but with Memphis and Dallas being major freight hubs, I30 between Texarkana and Little Rock is a mass of 18 wheelers, with 2 trains of thought about driving it..in either direction.
1. Go in the daytime so you can at least get a glimpse of the white tail that wrecks the front end of you car.

2. Drive @ night following right behind an 18 wheeler at 80mph. Big bumper, 4 sets of axles and 80,000 lbs soften Bambi up a good bit before your Michelins pass over the bloody remains.
Made that Little Rock drive lots of times in the last 2 1/2 years and glad I don't have to do it any more.

https://content.presspage.com/uploads/1441/1920_deermap.png?10000


----------



## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Now I was hopin' (spectin') southern horsepitality would kick in and DevonV and I would get honorable mention in all these here plans!  Bay is a great and generous hostess! I know Shtuff happens, but it sure would be great if you find your way down here. I have a couple spare rooms as well, so really don't expect you'll be lacking for a free place to put your head down. Bout 300 or so miles from Austin to Mount Pleasant and Bay is an hour south west of me. Would love the opportunity to meet you folks. As for shooting wild hogs, yeah, doubt you're lacking for pork but more fun when they run.



Of course you would be brought up LS....who else is going to bring the ribeyes??  I'm joking of course. It would be a pleasure to meet you as well. I'm hoping for a spring trip but with planting and finances its probly going to be more summer or fall.



greybeard said:


> Can't speak for any of the other places but for no bigger than it is, Little Rock has some of the worst traffic and major interchanges in North America.
> 
> I-30 looks good on a map, but with Memphis and Dallas being major freight hubs, I30 between Texarkana and Little Rock is a mass of 18 wheelers, with 2 trains of thought about driving it..in either direction.
> 1. Go in the daytime so you can at least get a glimpse of the white tail that wrecks the front end of you car.
> 
> 2. Drive @ night following right behind an 18 wheeler at 80mph. Big bumper, 4 sets of axles and 80,000 lbs soften Bambi up a good bit before your Michelins pass over the bloody remains.
> Made that Little Rock drive lots of times in the last 2 1/2 years and glad I don't have to do it any more.
> 
> https://content.presspage.com/uploads/1441/1920_deermap.png?10000



DH was a truck driver in his "former life" as he calls it and hit the million mile mark behind a semi steering wheel before he was 25yrs old so i will tell him but he will probly just say....i know, why are you telling me this? Just kinda how he is, very straight forward. The route isnt set in stone but he has no problem driving at any speed in any weather...which can be nice or terrifying  He tells me stories about driving like trying to out run a cali state boy on highway 1...doing 115mph in a semi truck with a load on. I've been on highway 1 i cant believe he survived. The cali cop caught him and passed him, then radioed back from him to slow down.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I'm not THAT young



Perhaps not but you are a fair bit younger than many of us  

115 MPH on the PCH??? That is NUTS!


----------



## Baymule

I'm a good cook too! We'd feed y'all good!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Perhaps not but you are a fair bit younger than many of us
> 
> 115 MPH on the PCH??? That is NUTS!



And how do you know how old I am? 



Baymule said:


> I'm a good cook too! We'd feed y'all good!



I have no doubt at all about your cooking skills Bay!


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> And how do you know how old I am?


Are you as old as Jack Benny (was for a LONG time)?


----------



## misfitmorgan

No i dont think any of us is almost 124yrs old


----------



## Pastor Dave

Depending on your route, Indianapolis is abt 20 minutes up I-70 to the NE from me.
Just sayin'. We do a good bit of cooking for company that drops in too.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I will keep that in mind Pastor Dave, Thank you!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Also @Baymule 3 days of single digits or below and the water in the barn/workshop poly barrels are not frozen but thick layer or ice on top and down the sides that had to be broken out with the maul.

DH said we need to put straw or boards or something under the barrels because the cement is making them freeze. He must be right because there was a bottle of water sitting on the shelf in there too and it wasnt frozen at all. Things are suppose to warm here up sunday-tuesday and again thursday....warm up as in 30s


----------



## Baymule

Warm UP to the 30's??  We dip DOWN to the 30's and call that WINTER. The 20's is HARD winter and the teens is almost unheard of. 
I love TEXAS!!


----------



## misfitmorgan

We get the short end of both sticks i'm afraid.

freezing in the winter, sizzling in the summer

Though we do not have many critters that can kill you without you seeing them coming.


----------



## Baymule

About the worst killing critters we have around here are rattlesnakes. With all the feral hogs running wild everywhere, I haven't seen a rattle snake in I don't know how long!


----------



## Bruce

Um, Mr. Benny was 39 ... for 41 years.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> About the worst killing critters we have around here are rattlesnakes. With all the feral hogs running wild everywhere, I haven't seen a rattle snake in I don't know how long!


No...but they've probably seen you.


----------



## Baymule

The last rattlesnake I saw was right in town, at our old house, the house across the street. Workmen were remodeling the house and a 5' rattlesnake came out from under the house. They killed it.


----------



## Latestarter

Damn shame he was where he shouldn't have been. He'd had 11 sheds. that's an old snake.


----------



## Bruce

Big snake!


----------



## Baymule

An old couple had lived in that house for many years. They moved to their daughter's and the house was sold. That snake probably lived under that house a long time eating mice. A young family rented the house and the lady complained about mice in the house.


----------



## Latestarter

Well gosh, I would guess so after the living mouse trap was eliminated...


----------



## Baymule

I showed her the pictures, scared her to death. She had 3 kids and would rather have had the mice than a resident 5' rattlesnake.


----------



## Bruce

It would keep the kids in line though. 
"Do your chores or I'm going to have you clean out under the house!!!"


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Um, Mr. Benny was 39 ... for 41 years.



I do believe Mr. Benny may have been mistaken... 


Yeah i dont think i would enjoy ever running into a rattlesnake. We have  a rattlesnake here but i've never seen it, their range is down state as far as i know.


----------



## misfitmorgan

So DH and i have talked about getting turkey's to raise for butcher and breeding. The problem is historically we can not find poults locally. We have found adult turkey's for sale for $30-50 each which seems very pricey as a set would be $60-100 and a trio $90-150. The secondary problem with the adult turkey's is that they are always 2.5+hrs away plus the return home trip.

I have ordered turkey eggs before and hatched them but only 2 out of 45 eggs survived to hatch and those two poults didnt make it past day 2. So i'm not entirely sure how to go about getting turkey's.

We have discussed ordering poults but as of yet the only turkeys we can find are broad breast...we are looking for a heritage breed. Any thoughts?


----------



## Pastor Dave

I have seen live chicks get shipped. We have Rural King stores around us that has all kinds of chicks each Spring. Anything like that around y'all?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yes we have a few around us or that will ship to us but they only have broad breasted, we are after heritage like royal palm, bourbon red, slate, etc.


----------



## TAH

I loved my slate. Right now I have HP And they are not my type of bird, I just butchered my male because of aggression.

But I just got a eastern wild male, I will never turn back. 

I would highly suggest the Slate, but I've also have heard the RB is good.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I've had personal contact on several occasions with RB, Slate, and RP...i must say the friendliest were the RB.


In other news....Anyone know if you allowed to register boer goats that have been dehorned? I'm looking at possibly buying a boer buck but all of their bucks are dehorned...the owner says buying the registration papers later may be an option. I was under the impression boer could not be registered if they had been dehorned...anyone know off hand?


----------



## Latestarter

Actually I believe the horn issue for them is a "show" issue, not a registration issue. For sanctioned shows, I believe they must have their horns.  @Mini Horses or maybe @ragdollcatlady may know...

Also: https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/heritage.html I ordered  my chickens from them and was very pleased. I lost one that was a runt and never developed, the rest thrived. If you order turkeys from them I'd suggest also ordering a handful of chicks at the same time to show the poults how to eat/drink/thrive. I understand turkey chicks are not the brightest poultry in the world and require their parents to teach them survival... kinda like humans...


----------



## farmerjan

For the most comprehensive turkey breedings, look at Porters heritage turkeys in Idaho.  They have the breeding of colors down to a T.  Not cheap, and they cannot be sent here to Va so I am trying to find a "friend" in WVa or some other state that they can be shipped to.  Also try your local/state Purebred Poultry assoc.  Find some shows and there are often turkeys at these show.  Yes, expect to pay $30-50 a piece.  I wouldn't sell mine any cheaper than $30 ea.  Too much time and effort goes into breeding them to be true to the standard.  And if you are not going to breed them to the standard then you are going to have mediocre turkeys that may look like certain color patterns, but may/may not breed true.  I've always believed that if you are going to go heritage/purebred, then know what you are doing and follow the standard of perfection.  I cannot tell you how many heritage turkeys I went through that really were very poor representatives of the actual breed.   Also, try Poultry Press.  A monthly newpaper that is devoted to the poultry fancy.  In the springtime there will be ads for breeders that will sell hatching eggs and ship live chicks and poults.  
Ideal Hatchery in Tx has some decent birds.  They contract out all their turkey offerings, so you are going to get some decent ones.  I have had very good luck with their commercial layer chicks.


----------



## Baymule

2 1/2 hours away is keeping you from getting the turkeys you want? You could go get them and be back in less than a day..... Stop and eat lunch before you pick them up, make a day of it....why is this stopping you? I can understand it in the winter with the snow and ice on roads, but come spring, you have no excuse!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Actually I believe the horn issue for them is a "show" issue, not a registration issue. For sanctioned shows, I believe they must have their horns.  @Mini Horses or maybe @ragdollcatlady may know...
> 
> Also: https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/heritage.html I ordered  my chickens from them and was very pleased. I lost one that was a runt and never developed, the rest thrived. If you order turkeys from them I'd suggest also ordering a handful of chicks at the same time to show the poults how to eat/drink/thrive. I understand turkey chicks are not the brightest poultry in the world and require their parents to teach them survival... kinda like humans...



I was not aware the hatcheries were carrying heritage birds. Maybe i knew at one time and forgot? We generally buy thru the local feed mill and they only offer the broad. The only reason we go thru them is because if DH and i each buy a bag of bird starter or meat maker we get 20 free cornish rocks. We figure you need the food anyhow for the chicks so why not get 20 free meat birds.



farmerjan said:


> For the most comprehensive turkey breedings, look at Porters heritage turkeys in Idaho.  They have the breeding of colors down to a T.  Not cheap, and they cannot be sent here to Va so I am trying to find a "friend" in WVa or some other state that they can be shipped to.  Also try your local/state Purebred Poultry assoc.  Find some shows and there are often turkeys at these show.  Yes, expect to pay $30-50 a piece.  I wouldn't sell mine any cheaper than $30 ea.  Too much time and effort goes into breeding them to be true to the standard.  And if you are not going to breed them to the standard then you are going to have mediocre turkeys that may look like certain color patterns, but may/may not breed true.  I've always believed that if you are going to go heritage/purebred, then know what you are doing and follow the standard of perfection.  I cannot tell you how many heritage turkeys I went through that really were very poor representatives of the actual breed.   Also, try Poultry Press.  A monthly newpaper that is devoted to the poultry fancy.  In the springtime there will be ads for breeders that will sell hatching eggs and ship live chicks and poults.
> Ideal Hatchery in Tx has some decent birds.  They contract out all their turkey offerings, so you are going to get some decent ones.  I have had very good luck with their commercial layer chicks.



If it was birds someone had put time into and breed properly, etc i could see the price. Thats not the case, these are mostly old birds...like they missed butcher time or just couldn't bring themselves to butcher or mixed breed. As in adult breeding pair, hen is blue slate x bourbon red and tom is royal palm x bronze...or some other silly combo that you wonder who ever bred the thing. They have no care for the breed, they want to make a quick buck or thought hey this would look cool crossed with this. I know a guy locally who has one blue slate hen, two bourbon red toms and one royal palm hen...he lets them breeds and sit on nests and then takes the eggs away about a week before hatch and throws them in an incubator. His goal is to sell the poults, he is doesnt care at all what they actually grow up to look like he just wants the money and those were the cheapest turkeys he could find to breed.

We did the hatching eggs things for almost a year straight and i found shipped turkey eggs really didnt do well at all. Chicken eggs were better and geese eggs didnt work even a little, not for me anyhow.




Baymule said:


> 2 1/2 hours away is keeping you from getting the turkeys you want? You could go get them and be back in less than a day..... Stop and eat lunch before you pick them up, make a day of it....why is this stopping you? I can understand it in the winter with the snow and ice on roads, but come spring, you have no excuse!



Its not just the time Bay, its also the money atm. Winter doesnt make a ton of difference. There are some colored muscovy juveniles over there in the same area for sale for $5 that i was as well as juvenile sebastol geese for $15 each...again want so bad. I have to wait, no money to do it atm and DH would have a fit.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Update on my BIL, a few days ago he had surgery and they removed his rectum, he will have a colostomy bag for the rest of his life but they believe they got all the cancer.

He made the very long slow trip home yesterday.

On a happier note DH has agreed to let me list Moon our jerk buck for sale and if i sell him i we can use that money to help buy a boer buck.


----------



## misfitmorgan




----------



## misfitmorgan

I know Bay....it's not herefords.....


----------



## Southern by choice

Do you DNA for scrapie susceptibility? Black faced sheep are the most susceptible. 
The last case of scrapie was in Michigan I believe.


----------



## misfitmorgan

We do not DNA for scrapie susceptibility as of yet. I was told the herd we recently got our ewe lambs from is entirely QR or RR ewes and last years ram was RR...so they should be RR or QR which means even if i bred a QQ Ram i would still get 50% of my offspring that were resistant to scrapie. I will likely do the susceptibility test this year when we draw blood to do cae/cl/johnes and fecals.

Black face are the most well known for getting scrapie, that is only true because black face(suffolk, hampshire, etc.)  are/were the highest commercially bred sheep in the US. The last case was actually 5 goats in Colorado in 2015, the last case from Michigan was 6 goats in 2008. In the past 16yrs 41 goats total have been confirmed positive with scrapie, since 1947 only approx 1,600 sheep/goats have been found positive for scrapie with 0 in 2016 and 2017. 

We do participate in the national scrapie program. Really participation in the scrapie program should be all around....it is 100% free and not many farms do it. 

Mi's district actually had the most samples collected this year out of all of the US, 1,460 sheep sample, 150 goats samples. For comparison the next highest was Pa's district with 436 sheep samples and 270 goat samples, the lowest TX's district had 16 sheep samples and 0 goat samples.

Basically all of this is to say the chances of your sheep or goats actually having or getting scrapie according to the reports provided is very very very low we are talking something like 0.0001% which would be 0% with an entirely RR flock or even a high percentage RR flock.

I'm glad you brought this up,I forgot I need to call and let them know I need new tags since we moved.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Update on my BIL, a few days ago he had surgery and they removed his rectum, he will have a colostomy bag for the rest of his life but they believe they got all the cancer.


Definitely not fun. My cousin the ER doctor up near @babsbag had to have the same surgery a couple of years ago. She's doing fine and hopefully your BIL will do the same.


----------



## Latestarter

Had an uncle on a bag for 40 years. recently died of old age. Was pretty nasty when he'd get to drinking as he'd sometimes knock the bag opened   Hope they got it all and he's done and over it. He's still with you. Thanks for the pics!


----------



## Baymule

No, it's not Herefords, but they are all very nice looking. Moon the buck might be a jerk, but he shore is purdy.   Y'all just moved, still have a lot of expense and things to do before taking on new animals. When things settle down, by all means, go get the heritage turkeys you want!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Definitely not fun. My cousin the ER doctor up near @babsbag had to have the same surgery a couple of years ago. She's doing fine and hopefully your BIL will do the same.



That is good to hear. My BIL is a lifetime farmer so i'm hoping this doesnt ruin that for him. 



Latestarter said:


> Had an uncle on a bag for 40 years. recently died of old age. Was pretty nasty when he'd get to drinking as he'd sometimes knock the bag opened   Hope they got it all and he's done and over it. He's still with you. Thanks for the pics!



Thankfully he hasnt drank in 20yrs other then a beer here and there. 



Baymule said:


> No, it's not Herefords, but they are all very nice looking. Moon the buck might be a jerk, but he shore is purdy.   Y'all just moved, still have a lot of expense and things to do before taking on new animals. When things settle down, by all means, go get the heritage turkeys you want!



That is sort of the plan, try to wait until things get more settled. Moon is a jerk,he is even more pretty when he is shaved down, he has a almost perfect heart on his side and another over his spine.
This is the one on his spine



 This is the one on his side


 
I got a picture for you Bay....my phone didnt have much battery left but i couldnt not get a picture of what happened last night.


 


 
DH had me throw in a bale of our hay bedding, DH was watering the big girls and i looked over and here one of our hereford gilts had climbed up on the bale and was just standing there looking around. She stayed up there until DH went back in the pen and made her get down so he could take the twine off the bale and spread the bedding. It was cute though.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Here are a few more pics of Moon

Moon Spring 2015


 
Moon Fall 2015


 
Moon August 2016


 
Moon September 2016


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## Baymule

So you have hay hopping Hereford hogs?   Moon is so pretty, he should be easy to sell, then go get what you want. Those heart markings should draw in a buyer.


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## misfitmorgan

It would seem that way. I started laughing and DH turned and looked at me like i was nuts. He told me to come grab the hose and i told him wait i have to get a picture for Bay!! Keep in mind he only knows you as "the lady on the forum i'm part of who loves herefords" so he rolled his eyes a bit and huffed


----------



## misfitmorgan

A guy called yesterday about Moon. He wants him but he lives 2hrs 15 mins away and doesn't want to drive that far so wants us to meet him around half way. The boer buck we want is 40 minutes from where we would be meeting him....which we could go pick up as soon as moon was dropped off.

Problem is if i tell the boer buck people we are coming to get the buck and this other guy for Moon flakes out not only will i not have quite enough cash for the buck, i will be out the gas and have no place to put another buck to bring home. This guy is the only one who has shown any interest so far.....it has only been 2 days though.

Any thoughts? I considered asking for a deposit to bring him down but i dont want to offend the guy.


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## Southern by choice

Why would that offend him?
When we meet for transport, depending on distance etc we may or may not charge for travel and we also get a deposit.
It is business. 

Who wouldn't drive 2 hrs 15 minutes for a goat? 
You are doing him a favor by meeting him.

-------------------------------------
On a side note-But related- last week I got a call from the people that are leasing my Kikos. A man was there and wanted to buy one of my bucks.
(One of the young bucklings was up for sale but when the guy got there he really wanted one of the mature bucks)
Talked for a bit. 
He wanted me to come down on my price.
I said no.
He said he didn't care about the papers.
He also didn't care about the fact they were all tested CAE, CL, Johnes negative,

I told him, it has no baring on me what you care about or not... the fact is I pay for all those things, spend a lot of money on raising and keeping a healthy herd and can sell him to a good breeding program that wants to use his genetics for the price I am asking so why would I lowball him for you? Not happening.
I did agree to take $50 off because the paperwork is a hassle and the hair needed to be pulled too.
Told him price was cash only.

5 minutes later phone rings, the lady who is leasing said the guy wants to write a check.
I said nope cash only- and there is a ATM machine 5 minutes from you he can get cash if he wants the animal. (I knew he had some cash on him)

5 minutes after that
Call from the lady- The guy apparently made a big stink and said he was "offended" that I wouldn't take a check and he is in thhe cattle work and people take checks for thousands of dollars and blah blah blah... she told him, "well we don't know you and you can't be too careful these days." The guy went on and on and right on out of the driveway! 

My DH said she should have said 
Offended?
If we knew each other and I still wouldn't take your check- _then _you could be offended


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## greybeard

Southern by choice said:


> My DH said she should have said
> Offended?
> If we knew each other and I still wouldn't take your check- _then _you could be offended


I don't take checks or write them for livestock except at a commisioned sale and even then, there have been some sales that bounced checks. Hasn't happened to me yet but some barns get behind somehow and their paper is no good. 

I did take a cashier's check to buy a group of heifers a few years ago from an individual, but we agreed on it because he uses the same bank I do and he checked with the girls at the bank that know both of us.

As far as what the other guy 'cared about'.....he should have found a seller that had animals for sale that weren't managed as good. Probably worked out for the best. That kind would be the first to whine if something went wrong with the buck a few weeks or months down the road...reminds me of the dead pig thing in one of the other threads...


----------



## Southern by choice

greybeard said:


> I don't take checks or write them for livestock except at a commisioned sale and even then, there have been some sales that bounced checks. Hasn't happened to me yet but some barns get behind somehow and their paper is no good.
> 
> I did take a cashier's check to buy a group of heifers a few years ago from an individual, but we agreed on it because he uses the same bank I do and he checked with the girls at the bank that know both of us.
> 
> As far as what the other guy 'cared about'.....he should have found a seller that had animals for sale that weren't managed as good. Probably worked out for the best. That kind would be the first to whine if something went wrong with the buck a few weeks or months down the road...reminds me of the dead pig thing in one of the other threads...



He was absolutely trying to scam. The young buckling was substantially less $ because he was unproven, 7 months old and I wasn't going to fiddle with the registration... No one takes checks for livestock from strangers... 

Yeah he also tried to tell me the older buck, was older than what I said. I told him I know when my animals kid, had exact Bday.  
Yeah, I usually don't bother with people that have no value for healthy tested animals. 
Go buy some diseased mess at the sale barn.
Especially being negative for Johnes, wouldn't a cattleman want to know that. 

Yeah I saw that pig post- no body no necropsy no refund. Their dog probably attacked it.


----------



## greybeard

Southern by choice said:


> Go buy some diseased mess at the sale barn.
> Especially being negative for Johnes, wouldn't a cattleman want to know that.



Sure, and a good cattleman will write on the drop off ticket whether the animal(s) have been vaccinated, bred, dob, etc. Establish a good rep as a good manager and the buyers and auctioneer will know you sell good stock and you'll get a premium price above the average. If I drop a problem cull off, I write across the ticket--TO KILL PEN to keep one of the local 'back to farm' buyers from thinking it might be a good addition to his herd. 
Having said that tho, the axiom of sale barn buying is and always has been 'buyer beware'. What you see is not always what you get, and "Buy from a reputable breeder' has no substitute, whether livestock, or guard dogs.

(I have occasionally taken a chance on some from the kill pen before. sometimes it works out, sometimes not. Sometimes, it isn't the animal's fault but simply mismanagement by the previous owner..it's really a crap shoot tho and I don't recommend it for a novice buyer)


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## misfitmorgan

https://nmi.craigslist.org/grd/d/pyrenees-poultry-livestock/6426250813.html


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## Mike CHS

At least on the surface it looks like they are trying to set her up for success hopefully but there is always more to the story.


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## misfitmorgan

@Mike CHS  I know I would like to take her in but we have sheep and goats. I could keep here in the workshop with the poultry though i dunno how she would take the pigs being in there.

@Southern by choice would it be feasible she could be trained to guard sheep/goats? I know you do not know her exact problem, but I do know you have trained a lot. I just dont want to see her end up in a shelter.


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## Goat Whisperer

You (they) lost me at "neutered female guardian"


----------



## misfitmorgan

Goat Whisperer said:


> You (they) lost me at "neutered female guardian"



I know i saw that too and went ermmm....wha....another reason i feel bad for her. Maybe she is a good guardian for all stock but prefers poultry and they simply dont know how to train her? No idea. i'm debating if i should email them and ask what her problem with sheep is or not.


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## OneFineAcre

I would give them a call and see what the deal is


----------



## Southern by choice

Of course not knowing or seeing the dog but more than likely she can be. It does take time, patience effort.... and if she has "issues" ...skill.
The fact that you have goats may very well help the situation. Many dogs are not good with sheep but are great with goats. 
There was no picture... is she solid Pyr?


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## misfitmorgan

There is no number only an email option. I believe she is full pyr all the info i have is that ad. I did email them and tell them our situation so shall see if they reply.

We do plan on getting back into poultry fairly heavily and a guardian for them would not be a bad idea after we saw our 120+birds get widdled down to a couple dozen last year. I'm mostly concerned with the fact that she would see the sheep and goats and pigs thru the fences, i am not sure how bad her problem is. Would she jump a fence to attack a sheep, i dunno.

Our plan atm is to build several pastures and rotate the goat/sheep/llama in first then the poultry then the pigs and they would follow that pattern so she would only be separated from the goats/sheep and pigs by one fence. 

Have to wait until they give a reply, if they do. I'm mostly interested because i dont want to see her in a shelter and she is a reasonable distance away, typically Pyr's are at least 3.5hrs from us and $600-800 per puppy, no guarantee on quality, no livestock experience, no support after purchase, etc. 

There was a lady that was breeding Pyrs and raising them in her house in the country on 1 acre of land, no livestock but selling them as livestock dogs and charging a premium because they had livestock experience(she owned 6 chickens). The county eventually shut her down for running a kennel without a permit on not enough land. 

The laws here are kind of odd. If you have 2 acres you allowed 4 dogs, for every dog over 4 you must have 1 more acre unless you have 20 acres or more and then they dont care i guess. If you want more dogs without following those guidelines you need a kennel permit.


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## Bruce

Do you have the time and money to put up enough fence to keep a GP in @misfitmorgan? That could be quite a difficult thing on short notice.


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## Baymule

I have a weird female GP that came to me with problems. We lived in town and the back yard was her domain. We moved here on 8 acres and she went in the back yard. Tried her on the sheep, but she bulldozed them. She hated leaving her yard, hated the sheep. So we built a small pen in the back yard and weaned lambs in it. She patrolled that pen, over time she accepted the lambs. We sat in the yard and let the lambs out and gradually she became their guardian. By being in "her" yard, by default the lambs became "hers" and she guarded them. We ran a fence to the back yard and now she can run the pasture with the sheep. Still won't give up her yard......

By all means, if you can get the GP, I'd say go for it. You could at least give her a chance. If she doesn't work out, then find her another home, but give her a chance.


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## Goat Whisperer

Any update on pyr?


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## misfitmorgan

Sorry guys the holidays were busy!

I had a good holiday for the most part. We personally celebrate Yule and then we celebrate christmas with my family. So last thursday we did our yule log, i made wassail to drink and so we could toast the trees in the apple orchard and I made 12th cake. It went well, our friend Tommy happened to show up so he got to have some wassail and 12th cake, he raved about both.

Then on saturday I was planning on making my baked goods for christmas presents, right until my mother called and pratically begged me to come help her make a few cookies and get her house in order for company. So we went up to her house and got home about 11pm.

So then on Sunday I had my baking to do, I ended up making triple chocolate brownies dipped in chocolate ganache then in chopped pecans, chocolate covered ritz, chocolate chip cookies, chocolate covered pretzel rods, salted caramel, thumb print cookies, and a few store bought reindeer sugar cookies. It was recieved well.

I had made a little to much so we made up a tray for some folks we know locally who have a sparse christmas and 3 kids. We try to help them out where we can, with firewood and whatever. So I gave them the baked goods and DH got a propane tank filled and took them a line so they could have a running store for a while. DH called it their christmas stove, they were pretty happy about both things. Now on the downside, we have never been inside of their house before, we dont judge people or how they keep their house...so please no one else. On the ride home DH freaked out for a second and pulled over, got out and shook all the clothes on the top half of himself off as he yanked them off his body. They had cockroaches and DH made the mistake of setting his coat down on a chair so found one that crawled out of his coat on his hand. I laughed about it, he did not laugh for awhile, hopefully no eggs came home.

Update on the Pyr.....I got a reply email asking me to call them on Sunday. I didnt see it until today  so i emailed back asking if i could call tonight. Apparently the Pyr had no problem with the ladies old sheep but she did with her new sheep. She mentioned talking about the Pyr personality too....i've not owned a Pyr before so hopefully that goes well. DH was around Pyrs as his grandpa bred them and used them for sheep and goat guards most of his life. 

@Bruce there is no option to put up fencing until about march so she would either need to be happy with our goats/sheep or stay in the workshop with the poultry. We do let the poultry out on "nice" days so she would get outdoor time.


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## Bruce

I understand the fencing problem, I got mine done last Dec JUST barely before the ground started freezing.


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## Baymule

I am glad that y'all had a good Christmas and were able to share with the family that has less than optimal living conditions. I have to go google Yule. 

Are y'all going to get the Pyr?


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## goatgurl

just caught up with your journal,  wow, i'm tired now.  hope youall have the best new year ever working on your own place.


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## Baymule

goatgurl said:


> just caught up with your journal,  wow, i'm tired now.  hope youall have the best new year ever working on your own place.


Goatgurl, where have you been for so long? Been missing you!


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## Bruce

Been hanging with the goats, right??


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## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> and get her house in order for company.


I have found that part to be the most daunting of Christmas tasks. For us, hosting our family's Christmas gathering was a top to bottom ordeal, drapes and curtains all came down, cleaned and reinstalled in every room. Every floor cleaned, things put away and boxed that we intend to get rid of in our effort to re-locate/downsize back to West Texas next year. Serving tables brought in, dining and kitchen re-arranged to facilitate a serving line and seating for 15 extra mouths.
Sunday, I had spent all afternoon until dark running 2 extra lines of HT wire on an existing 5 strand fence in a pasture in order to hold calves and then came in, cleaned up, warmed up and went straight into kitchen mode till 2am and was up before 5 to get the turkey, ham and side dishes ready--tables in position, silverware and plates set out. (my wife doesn't cook) I was exhausted by the time dinner was finished and had to go lay down for a couple of hours.


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## Latestarter

Back when I used to host large family gatherings I dealt with much the same. I completely understand your need for rest at the close.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I understand the fencing problem, I got mine done last Dec JUST barely before the ground started freezing.



Sigh....fencing.....the bane of all farmers.



Baymule said:


> I am glad that y'all had a good Christmas and were able to share with the family that has less than optimal living conditions. I have to go google Yule.
> 
> Are y'all going to get the Pyr?



Yule is a germanic/nordic pagan tradition. I'm german and prussian(so germanic) and DH is norwegian(so nordic) so we choose to celebrate yule. We do not get into wicca, heathenism, or any of those other types of things. We simply do yule.

So we burn a yule log which is ash with evergreen boughs over it and red, green, white bows decorating it. We douse the fire with ale or cider and dust it with flour. While the yule log burns we go wassailing aka toasting the trees. You make wassail which is sort of a mulled cider, then you dip pieces of toast in it and hang them on apple trees in hopes of a good harvest next season. Then we had pork which is traditional...aka ham....then 12th cake.

Yule is celebrated on winter solstice which is the longest night of the year. We use the evening and time around the yule log fire to discuss our hopes/plans for the coming year and our future, farm goals, etc. Celebrating yule is very fun and almost feels magical, it really makes me think of my ancestors and how important these things were to them before Christianity  wiped most of it out.

Most things we associate with the "season" or Christmas are actually taken from yule.
Yule log of course
Christmas tree(this was a yule tree originally)
evergreen (wreaths, swags)
holly
mistletoe esp hung in doorways
poinsettias
cinnamon
cloves (esp clove studded fruit)
eggnog
mulled/spiced cider/wine
fruits (fruitcake)
nuts (like the mixes of shell on nuts that come out for the holidays)
red, green, gold, and white were/are the colors of yule
exchanging presents (that was a yule tradition)

The best one of all......honoring the Germanic Pagan God of Yule....Wodan(Odin), who became father Christmas, then St Nicholas, and we now know of as Santa Claus. The thought of santa flying thru the air with reindeer comes from "the wild hunt" another yule related thing.

It's all really interesting if you ever read up on it and exactly how much of Christmas tradition was actually taken from Yule. We don't tell most people we celebrate a pagan holiday because they generally immediately think we are out worshiping satan and trying to cast spells which has zero to do with celebrating traditional yule.

I'm not sure on the Pyr, i called the lady but she had moved to the next person on her list i guess. If that lady doesnt take her she will call me. I understand i did forget to call yesterday and if we dont get her it wasnt ment to be. The reason i forgot to call was we were at those same peoples house again, DH took the salamander over there because their water had froze, we spent most of the night trying to get it running again and then took them to our house for showers/baths and dinner. So i'm ok with us losing the Pyr when we were doing something important for people who needed it.




goatgurl said:


> just caught up with your journal,  wow, i'm tired now.  hope youall have the best new year ever working on your own place.


Glad you got caught up, i've been doing that same with everyone elses journal! I hope it proves to be a good year, i couldnt handle another one like 2017.



greybeard said:


> I have found that part to be the most daunting of Christmas tasks. For us, hosting our family's Christmas gathering was a top to bottom ordeal, drapes and curtains all came down, cleaned and reinstalled in every room. Every floor cleaned, things put away and boxed that we intend to get rid of in our effort to re-locate/downsize back to West Texas next year. Serving tables brought in, dining and kitchen re-arranged to facilitate a serving line and seating for 15 extra mouths.
> Sunday, I had spent all afternoon until dark running 2 extra lines of HT wire on an existing 5 strand fence in a pasture in order to hold calves and then came in, cleaned up, warmed up and went straight into kitchen mode till 2am and was up before 5 to get the turkey, ham and side dishes ready--tables in position, silverware and plates set out. (my wife doesn't cook) I was exhausted by the time dinner was finished and had to go lay down for a couple of hours.



I know how you feel GB, i'm still worn out from ours and it was a smaller affair then normal this year.

Weekends plans are......

Saturday, clean house, shampoo carpets, hopefully clean pig pens, then go to my moms for my birthday dinner. Should be fun my sister in law and nieces and nephew are up from downstate(they missed Christmas here)

Sunday, kill either one or both of the barrows and get them processed and into freezer camp, then make ground pork until my arm falls off. Those local people will be helping and we will give them some pork.

Monday, go to those peoples house and help clean, scrub it, disinfect, then set off roach bombs i hope. Shall see how that goes, i havnt brought up the roach bomb part yet...baby steps. We are sort of doing an exchange, you help us with the pigs you get some pork and we will trade getting your house in order.

Tuesday....back to work.

Typically this is not something we will do....clean someones house for them. We are making an exception because of the kids there and when they moved in the previous owners were hoarders and after long enough you just kind of give up on ever getting it done. If you read my journal you know how i would know this first hand. They hit that point several months ago and need a boost to get geared back up. So we will do it this once and hope it gives them that boost, if not..well we did try.


----------



## greybeard

> It's all really interesting if you ever read up on it


https://wicca.com/celtic/akasha/yule.htm


----------



## Baymule

Christianity took over a lot of pagan customs. I don't consider yule the way you described it as pagan as much as I consider it appreciating nature and harvest, changing of the seasons and like you said, plans for the next seasons. I can understand your reluctance to discuss Yule on an open forum. I take you as you are, you take me as I am, we are friends and that's all that matters. 

It is really kind of y'all to help the family clean up their act. They are your neighbors and you will likely be dealing with them for some time so might as well pitch in and help them. Are they renting or did they buy the house? They sound like good people, hopefully a little boost will get them back on track.


----------



## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> https://wicca.com/celtic/akasha/yule.htm



That is a pretty detailed website, it is geared towards wicca though.



Baymule said:


> Christianity took over a lot of pagan customs. I don't consider yule the way you described it as pagan as much as I consider it appreciating nature and harvest, changing of the seasons and like you said, plans for the next seasons. I can understand your reluctance to discuss Yule on an open forum. I take you as you are, you take me as I am, we are friends and that's all that matters.
> 
> It is really kind of y'all to help the family clean up their act. They are your neighbors and you will likely be dealing with them for some time so might as well pitch in and help them. Are they renting or did they buy the house? They sound like good people, hopefully a little boost will get them back on track.



That's mostly why we do it appreciating whatever nature is going to provide this year and hoping for a good harvest next year. It sort of goes with thanksgiving, you are thankful for the harvest you had...Yule you are hoping for the next harvest to be good. I'm very glad we are friends Bay! I'm glad all of you are my friends. 

They are not actually our neighbors, they were county "neighbors" at our old farm. DH actually works with the male and has recently become his boss at work. DH and the other male get along really well, myself and the female get along well enough(don't know her to well yet), their daughter adores us and loves our dogs. DH has always been a man very keen on trading for things and they are like minded. Trade labor for food, or labor for goods, or goods for goods. We traded them their labor to help process pigs for about 50lbs of pork, we traded them a baby mini pig and a meat pig for a table saw earlier this year, this spring they will be helping us put in fence in trade for a few meals, some beer, and DH's homemade wine.

The part that bothers DH and I is they seem wary like people have helped them before and then thought that this couple owed them. People probly have but i hate to think all their previous experiences were like that. Hopefully with time they will trust that we are not one day going to look at them and tell them they owe us xyz because we helped them.

So of the planned weekend work schedule we got the following done

Friday - Those people ended up staying at our house until about 10pm when they decided they wanted to go home, so DH took them home. I honestly wouldnt have minded them staying for longer. I got home from work and the female had done the dishes, picked up the floor and vacuumed, plus let the dogs in and out all day.

Saturday - Got the house cleaned and made it to my mom's for my birthday dinner. Man the place was packed, i think more so because my sister in law and nieces/nephews were up but it was still nice. We had a good time and we actually discussed my brother for the first time since he died and no one cried.

Sunday - We did get both barrows processed and into freezer camp. Ground pork isnt made yet as it was to warm to grind, i believe that is tonight project. Those people did come help with the entire process. Then we sat down to a dinner of pork roast, potatoes, carrots and gravy...those barrows taste mighty good.

Monday - Those people called to reschedule the house cleaning to next weekend...since we didnt find that out until noon and it was my birthday...DH and i took the day off and did nothing that you could call work. We did play with mushroom stuff for about an hour though.

Today I'm back at work. Still need to clean pig pens and shampoo carpets.


----------



## Baymule

Always work to do! I am so happy that now the work is on your own place. Hopefully in time, these people will realize that you mean them no harm and they will trust y'all. I also like the barter system. We do a lot of trading back and forth in our neighborhood, nobody keeps score.


----------



## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> That is a pretty detailed website, it is geared towards wicca though.


Yep. And other pagan practices.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Always work to do! I am so happy that now the work is on your own place. Hopefully in time, these people will realize that you mean them no harm and they will trust y'all. I also like the barter system. We do a lot of trading back and forth in our neighborhood, nobody keeps score.



For sure! It does feel a lot better to know some landlord cant come in and make trouble for us for no reason.



greybeard said:


> Yep. And other pagan practices.


 True

So the lady with the Pyr called last night. The other person flaked out on her. So she offered me the Pyr, DH and i discussed it a bit and i didnt get a for sure answer out of him last night. The current owners will bring her to our house too.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I hope it works out. I loved my Pyrs and can't wait to add another!


----------



## Baymule

Have you ever had a GP? They are fantastic dogs. We have two and love them madly. GP's are a different dog, to be sure. Awesome dogs. I hope you can get her.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I have never had a GP but DH's grandfather had many many of them and in fact still had 5 when he passed away. DH lived with his grandpa so he knows a lot more about GP then i do. Basically I am waiting on DH to give me the yes.....to tell the lady. We have discussed it and he has not told me yes or no yet.


----------



## Bruce

Does he have any concerns?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yes his concern is we own 6 dogs already. I told him i could part with Stella if we could get the Pyr but he wasnt convinced. He is also concerned because the Pyr has a problem with hair sheep....which look similar to goats. Wool sheep she is fine with i guess, also cows and horses. She would not be in with the sheep/goats though, he is also concerned the llama will attack her...again she wont be with the sheep/goats.

I told him Pyrs are not cheap around here and training them to guard poultry is hard to do.

I would part with Stella because her and Kora fight a lot and it makes the other dogs fight. She has attacked my small older dogs more then once. She is a good dog for a family without other dogs, she is fine with cats, loves kids, is totally house broke etc. Her only bad habit is barking when someone comes over. Stella was one of my brothers dogs otherwise i never would have kept her this long.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The past week and a half has been so cold it is ridiculous. Almost every day last week was negative temps when i came into work for 6am, last thursday was -18F at 6am. Highs have been in single or low low double digits with the exception of the past two days it was 20F

Today  20F/-3F  windchill   8F /-30F
Thurs    3F/-7F  windchill -18F /-25F
Fri        2F/-8F  windchill -19F/-25F
Sat       5F/0F   windchill    3F/-16F
Sun     25F/23F windchill   18F/17F  

February is suppose to be the coldest month of the year....someone got it backwards.


----------



## Bruce

We are looking at -13°F on Saturday. That is an improvement from -20°F. Of course the wind chill will be -36°F. Wife's mother, father and aunt were going to come over for the annual New Year/DW's BDay rib roast on Saturday. We moved it to Sunday when it should be 11*F with a windchill of only -2°F. Gotta be nice when the age range is 84 to 100!!


----------



## Baymule

How do you keep water for your animals in sub zero weather? We've been in the teens, water frozen, hauling hot water from the house, NO fun. Glad that temps are going up. Still freezing at night, but up in the 40's during the day. I can deal with that. Phooey on frozen! 

I hope you can get the GP and that it works out for the dog and y'all. If nothing else, you could get a litter of pups and raise them the way you wanted to.


----------



## farmerjan

God bless you for the fortitude to withstand those temps.  We used to get cold in Ct and family had it worse in Vt.  I moved to Va 35 years ago to have 4 seasons, but alot less of the winter season.  We are Exceptionally cold for this time of year and it is just holding on.  Guess it isn't as bad a thing as those south that have no experience with this cold, but it is abnormal for us to have it last so long.  And making our watering a real nightmare with everything freezing up solid, and having to haul water to several places now.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> We are looking at -13°F on Saturday. That is an improvement from -20°F. Of course the wind chill will be -36°F. Wife's mother, father and aunt were going to come over for the annual New Year/DW's BDay rib roast on Saturday. We moved it to Sunday when it should be 11*F with a windchill of only -2°F. Gotta be nice when the age range is 84 to 100!!


 I did see that you guys would be getting i think the worst of it. Try to stay warm.



Baymule said:


> How do you keep water for your animals in sub zero weather? We've been in the teens, water frozen, hauling hot water from the house, NO fun. Glad that temps are going up. Still freezing at night, but up in the 40's during the day. I can deal with that. Phooey on frozen!
> 
> I hope you can get the GP and that it works out for the dog and y'all. If nothing else, you could get a litter of pups and raise them the way you wanted to.



You keep your hose in the basement and reel it out to fill up large containers, then you pack hay or straw around them and hope for the best...when that water freezes solid....your down to buckets or reeling the hose out daily. So far we havnt had to bucket to much...i think about 2 days worth since winter. 

The water does freeze for the goats/sheep. Their water trough is the bottom of a 55gallon poly barrel so DH uses the back of his maul and hits the sides of the tub until the ice block comes out then we put in fresh water and they have until that freezes to get their water needs met. We do bucket hot or very warm water to give them more time to drink as well. Ideally you have a heated waterer or a deicer in the trough and you just need to make sure you keep it full of water manually. We had a deicer it broke finally so i need to order a new one. I assume you have seen deicers but in case not...something like this https://www.amazon.com/Pet-Products...e=UTF8&qid=1515067112&sr=8-31&keywords=deicer



farmerjan said:


> God bless you for the fortitude to withstand those temps.  We used to get cold in Ct and family had it worse in Vt.  I moved to Va 35 years ago to have 4 seasons, but alot less of the winter season.  We are Exceptionally cold for this time of year and it is just holding on.  Guess it isn't as bad a thing as those south that have no experience with this cold, but it is abnormal for us to have it last so long.  And making our watering a real nightmare with everything freezing up solid, and having to haul water to several places now.



I do hate the cold but i've pretty much decided not to complain about it to much because it wont change it. Some day we will move to a warmer climate I'm sure. Dh does not want to live in Texas so I'm thinking Tenn....he is thinking Louisiana

Oh also.... @Baymule we are going down tonight to see the Pyr!
@Southern by choice any advice on what to look for? Apparently her parents are on sight and are working guardians.


----------



## Baymule

It freezes here so rarely that a driver or heater isn't worth it. 

Your DH doesn't want to live in Texas but prefers Louisiana? 

I hope you get the GP!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> It freezes here so rarely that a driver or heater isn't worth it.
> 
> Your DH doesn't want to live in Texas but prefers Louisiana?
> 
> I hope you get the GP!



He lived in texas for 4 yrs....in houston. I think the fact it was in houston has something to do with it. He wants to live in lousiana out in the booney's/swamp....i told him yes i would be happy to live there but first he needs to teach the livestock to swim and defend themselves from crocs and gators.

I hope we get her too!!


----------



## Baymule

I was raised in Houston. Nice place to visit, but I left as soon as I turned 18. Don't blame him for not liking Houston. Our area (Tyler) ain't bad.....


----------



## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> Some day we will move to a warmer climate I'm sure. Dh does not want to live in Texas so I'm thinking Tenn....he is thinking Louisiana


I've lived on the outskirts of Memphis (Millington) 2 different times and lived in S. Louisiana for over 10 years..left there in '95.  
S. Louisiana..if you like mosquitoes, oppressive humidity and almost daily rain during much of the year, as well as the risk of flood when they (USCoE) let water out of Old River Control Structure into the Atchafalya floodway, it's the place for you. State income tax and very poor roads outside the interstate system. The food is great, tho very rich and fattening. 

Tenn...I did not care much for it at all. Fairly cold winters and the summers weren't much cooler than here where I live now. 2 of my adult children live there now, in the Eastern part of the state. The drug problems (first crack then/now meth) are legendary.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> He lived in texas for 4 yrs....in houston. I think the fact it was in houston has something to do with it. He wants to live in lousiana out in the booney's/swamp....i told him yes i would be happy to live there but first he needs to teach the livestock to swim and defend themselves from crocs and gators.
> 
> I hope we get her too!!


Not to mention the poisonous snakes and spiders!


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Not to mention the poisonous snakes and spiders!


----------



## Bruce

1970's hair and clothing flashback!!!!!!!


----------



## Latestarter

That was a great tune you shared.   Haven't heard that in over 40 years. Came out before I graduated high school. Thought it was kinda great then.


----------



## Mike CHS

I was working at a Ford plant in Ypsilanti, Michigan when that song came out.  It was a hit with the folks that migrated from Kentucky which is why they called the city Ypsitucky.


----------



## misfitmorgan

We lost Mocha one of our tog girls. We are not exactly sure what happened but DH found her dead in their shelter yesterday after work, it looks like she got piled on top of night before last when it was so cold. I do know the sheep have been sleeping in the shelter the last week or so which they have never done before so it may be more crowded then normal but i would think she was big enough to get up if other goats/sheep tried to lay on her. It's sad, we dont have a lot of goats anymore and the ones we have (except moon) are all my favs so losing any of them really sucks.

In more happier news...

Everyone....say hello to Rose



 


Our new LGD. This was about half way home, she was pretty amazing. According to her old owners she has only ever been in a car once and that was to go get spayed, she also only once ever had a harness or leash on before. She also got to go in the house last night(old house not mine) for the first time ever. She was clearly stressed being in the house and did not like it at all, she was a bit stressed in the car but i kept petting her and it seemed to help her calm down and decide the car was ok.

DH did have to half pick her up to get her out of the car and then she army crawled to the door of the workshop with some leading assistance by DH, the second she got inside she laid on a pile of old hay/bedding(dry) and sat there shaking. She has never seen pigs before. We comforted her the best we could, made her a bed with clean hay(which she refused to move too)and put down a bowl of food. I stayed there with her for a bit but we did have company and it was very cold out. She acted wonderfully even though she was very stressed, she was calm and tried to do what we were asking of her. By the time DH and i headed to the house she had almost completely stopped shaking and seemed like she thought the pigs might be alright, she was happy(i think) to see the ducks.

I think she will work out well once she settles in, she is staying in the workshop until sunday then DH and I will walk her around "her property" and let the poultry out to have some sunlight. She seems like a watcher type so we shall see if sh stays that way once she is settled in. DH commented on how small she was....I agree from pictures i have seen of Pyrs she does seem small. The people were wrong on her age is a little over 2yrs old, is it possible she still has to grow more? @Southern by choice


----------



## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear of your loss 

Congrats on your new addition-hope she fits in well with you!


----------



## Baymule

Farming. Loss and life. Sadness and joy. Why does it have to be this way? 

I am so sorry about Mocha I know it hurts. Your sweetie, your friend is gone for no good reason. You do your best and sometimes that's not good enough. But there is nothing to do but keep going forward. Big hugs. 

Your new girl is beautiful. I love her already. She is behaving like Paris did when I bought her home. It is hard to pack a GP up in a car when she has never been socialized to it. No wonder she was scared. I am so happy for her, she now has a wonderful home. What is her name?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Hens and Roos said:


> sorry to hear of your loss
> 
> Congrats on your new addition-hope she fits in well with you!


Thank you!



Baymule said:


> Farming. Loss and life. Sadness and joy. Why does it have to be this way?
> 
> I am so sorry about Mocha I know it hurts. Your sweetie, your friend is gone for no good reason. You do your best and sometimes that's not good enough. But there is nothing to do but keep going forward. Big hugs.
> 
> Your new girl is beautiful. I love her already. She is behaving like Paris did when I bought her home. It is hard to pack a GP up in a car when she has never been socialized to it. No wonder she was scared. I am so happy for her, she now has a wonderful home. What is her name?




Thank you Bay hugss

Her name is Rose. She acted perfect as soon as she was in the car, she laid down and stayed laid down the entire ride even when we stopped for gas. Her fur is full of burrs, DH says it is important we get them out because it will affect how insulative her fur is so i need to get a wide tooth metal comb from TSC to get the burs out. She probly has over 100 burrs in her fur. There was a lot of burs on her old farm, no way it would be possible for the people to keep them out of the Pyr's fur without brushing all three Pyrs out daily. Her tail esp has a lot to the point it isnt fluffy like i think it should be.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Sorry about Mocha.
Rose is pretty.


----------



## Southern by choice

So sorry about your girl. 

I am not getting your tags for some reason. 

How much does she weigh and about how tall at the withers do you think she is?


----------



## misfitmorgan

OneFineAcre said:


> Sorry about Mocha.
> Rose is pretty.



Thank you and i agree rose is pretty.



Southern by choice said:


> So sorry about your girl.
> 
> I am not getting your tags for some reason.
> 
> How much does she weigh and about how tall at the withers do you think she is?



Typical BYH, i think i am missing alerts again. I wish they could figure out why that happens.

DH says she weighs between 65-70lbs and for the brief periods she was standing near me i would say she is between 20-24" tall. Once she settles in i can get a better height and DH a better weight.


----------



## Bruce

That does seem really small for a mature GP.


----------



## Southern by choice

Yes, very small. 
More than likely whoever bred her had no clue as far as proper nutrition and deworming. 
The other factor is the breeding of inferior animals. Pisses me off when people breed little pyrs. 
This is how these dogs are being ruined. The dogs may be sweet and wonderful but doesn't mean they should be bred. 

Rant over.

Since she is 2 she will not grow much more, maybe another inch on the height and weight will depend on your care from here.
Please have a vet run a HW test on her, check for tick borne illnesses and start deworming her.

On the flip side- I will refer to my signature line  (big or small)
_"Pyr's... they simply make life better"_


----------



## Baymule

My female Pyrenees is only 67 pounds. She is small for the breed, but her heart is big and she does a great job. So don't let Rose's size worry you. She will still be an awesome poultry protector.

But I have to agree with SBC, people breed dogs that don't meet the standard.


----------



## babsbag

Playing catch-up. I'm really sad for you that you lost Mocha, it's never ever easy when this stuff happens.  I lost one of my Toggs a few years ago like that too, just went out and she was dead. It hurts. 

Rose is going to be a great dog. She has found good people and she knows it.


----------



## Latestarter

Congrats on Rose!  I see that smile through all her fear and concern. She's gonna be your bestest friend in no time at all.  Very pretty girl even being small. They are so eager to please.  So sorry about Mocha... sad, unexpected, unexplained loss.


----------



## greybeard

Southern by choice said:


> Yes, very small.
> More than likely whoever bred her had no clue as far as proper nutrition and deworming.
> The other factor is the breeding of inferior animals. Pisses me off when people breed little pyrs.
> This is how these dogs are being ruined. The dogs may be sweet and wonderful but doesn't mean they should be bred.
> 
> Rant over.


YYour rant is justified. 
(preface by stating I don't know much at all about this breed of dog..but..)
This, is something we are seeing more and more of, across a wide range of species and orders..canine, bovine, plant/animal etc, and others. There is a reason so many of us now look for heirloom seeds..we came close to forever losing taste, nutrition  and texture in many fruits and vegs, and I'm seeing lots of discussion now about damage being done by selcting for single traits in livestock production, but the real damage comes from inadvertent breeding and poor culling practices.  It's one thing to create a composite breed for any particular purpose, but another altogether to screw up what nature did pretty perfectly over many generations in relation to working animals. 
I wonder sometime, (again, across a wide spectrum) if some of the breeds and species we are all familiar with today will be completely gone in a few hundred years. 
There's something to be said for breeding the best to the best and the truest to the truest.


----------



## Sara Ranch

Wow - just catching up on all the challenges you've experienced since end of November!

*hugs*

Congrats on Rose!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Southern by choice said:


> Yes, very small.
> More than likely whoever bred her had no clue as far as proper nutrition and deworming.
> The other factor is the breeding of inferior animals. Pisses me off when people breed little pyrs.
> This is how these dogs are being ruined. The dogs may be sweet and wonderful but doesn't mean they should be bred.
> 
> Rant over.
> 
> Since she is 2 she will not grow much more, maybe another inch on the height and weight will depend on your care from here.
> Please have a vet run a HW test on her, check for tick borne illnesses and start deworming her.
> 
> On the flip side- I will refer to my signature line  (big or small)
> _"Pyr's... they simply make life better"_



The people we got her from were the ones who bred her, the parents didnt seem really huge either but were bigger then Rose for sure. They said she was eating Proplan and Pedigree mixed 50/50, we have her on Diamond Naturals Large Breed and venison for protein. Hopefully that's a good diet for a GP, I had planned on giving her large breed puppy but she is a bit old for puppy i think. I don't mind your rants @Southern by choice I agree 100%, i feel the same about anyone breeding anything just because they can. Rose is already fixed but even if she wasnt I wouldnt breed her because of being small sized.

We will get HW run though we do use Ivermectin for worming our dogs(per our vet its ok since we dont have shepards and no one has shown adverse reactions) which also treats for heartworm. My vet as with most vets has never seen a case of heartworm in a live dog in his life. We have the added benefit being in the cold that we only have to treat for heartworm twice a year, her first dose will be a HW dose though which will also take care of any worms. I was going to wait until it warmed up to worry about HW but if she was never treated before better to be safe then sorry. I also ordered shots for her as she has apparently never had them. She is getting a 5-way because we do not have lepto here and i already gave her a rabies shot. 



Baymule said:


> My female Pyrenees is only 67 pounds. She is small for the breed, but her heart is big and she does a great job. So don't let Rose's size worry you. She will still be an awesome poultry protector.
> 
> But I have to agree with SBC, people breed dogs that don't meet the standard.



I'm more worried I won't feed her right of give her what she needs to the actual size she ends up. She just seemed small so I thought maybe I'm just thinking Pyrs should be bigger. Rose is a great girl and already tried to protect the flock...from DH.

DH went into the workshop the day after we had got her home...he was met at the door by Rose or as he puts it "a white ball of teeth and growling" she did not hurt him at all. DH simply looked down at her and told her to "knock it off" as he walked into the shop, she stopped immediately and went and hid. DH coaxed her out and reassured her she was being a good girl but he wasnt going to hurt any of her poultry. He said it is really important she keeps her confidence so re-assurance that yes she is doing the right thing is important. After that she has been happy to see DH in the shop. DH told me to not go in the shop for a few days on my own just until he can be sure she is adjusted well and knows we are alright to be in "her" shop.



babsbag said:


> Playing catch-up. I'm really sad for you that you lost Mocha, it's never ever easy when this stuff happens.  I lost one of my Toggs a few years ago like that too, just went out and she was dead. It hurts.
> 
> Rose is going to be a great dog. She has found good people and she knows it.


It really sucks Thank you Babs.



Latestarter said:


> Congrats on Rose!  I see that smile through all her fear and concern. She's gonna be your bestest friend in no time at all.  Very pretty girl even being small. They are so eager to please.  So sorry about Mocha... sad, unexpected, unexplained loss.



I already love her! There is just something about her that tugs on my heart strings. I don't know if it is the calm she seems to have or what she also seems calm, wise, and patient all at once...something i've rarely seen from dogs. I do see it in my other dogs but only generally around small children and it isnt aimed at me, if that makes any sense. It's entirely different when it is towards you.



greybeard said:


> YYour rant is justified.
> (preface by stating I don't know much at all about this breed of dog..but..)
> This, is something we are seeing more and more of, across a wide range of species and orders..canine, bovine, plant/animal etc, and others. There is a reason so many of us now look for heirloom seeds..we came close to forever losing taste, nutrition  and texture in many fruits and vegs, and I'm seeing lots of discussion now about damage being done by selcting for single traits in livestock production, but the real damage comes from inadvertent breeding and poor culling practices.  It's one thing to create a composite breed for any particular purpose, but another altogether to screw up what nature did pretty perfectly over many generations in relation to working animals.
> I wonder sometime, (again, across a wide spectrum) if some of the breeds and species we are all familiar with today will be completely gone in a few hundred years.
> There's something to be said for breeding the best to the best and the truest to the truest.



I agree and I hope people will one day learn you need to breed to make a better animal not just breed to say oh look i did this and this was the result, isnt it great.....umm no you idiot.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Sara Ranch said:


> Wow - just catching up on all the challenges you've experienced since end of November!
> 
> *hugs*
> 
> Congrats on Rose!



 Thank you!


----------



## misfitmorgan

So nothing new really happened over the weekend.

Rose did meet our one wether though, he ran into the shop when DH had opened the door and he ran up to Rose and did the classic head tuck. You know the i'm big and bad and will ram you head tuck, right n Rose's face. Rose sniffed towards him and gave one very loud bark into his face and the wether decided that was ok. Then DH kicked the wether back outside.

On a side note..... our net fence has stopped working because the snow has gotten to deep. While we have the warm weather this week DH and i will be working on digging out the fence and lifting it up 6 inches off the ground on T-posts so it will stay working until we have a foot or more of snow. Ideally we would buy fencing but it isnt in the budget because our utility bills got crazy high before we winterized the house(plastic windows, seal up air gaps around doors, etc) so lifting the fence will have to do for another month at least.  So for the past week the sheep and goats have been hoping the now shorter die to snow build up fence and helping themselves to the hay bales we have stacked outside as a windbreak in front of the shop...and anything else they think they should eat. They have stayed in the back by their pen the entire time except one morning we saw hoofprints around the front of the garage but thats the farthest they have gone.

We have been mulling over a new name for the farm. Possibly....Stone's Folly Farm


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> and I'm seeing lots of discussion now about damage being done by selcting for single traits in livestock production


That sort of thing always gets me back to English Bulldogs. Bred for 2 traits, narrow hips, broad shoulders. They would cease to exist as a breed if not for veterinarians and C-sections. Just stupid.



misfitmorgan said:


> My vet as with most vets has never seen a case of heart worm in a live dog in his life.


Not surprising given where you live. I might have Rose tested "just because" and ignore HW for the future. At best, there is likely only a slim chance during the summer where the overnight low doesn't go below the 57°F lower limit for the mosquito borne stage to survive. And that < 57°F only has to happen ONCE in a 45 day period. According to Accuweather for Saginaw last summer, there was not even a 30 day period where the temp didn't drop down closer to 50°F than 57°F.

Like here, the only animal that will have heart worm is one that is taken to and returned from  or brought from a much warmer climate.


----------



## Baymule

DH went into the workshop the day after we had got her home...he was met at the door by Rose or as he puts it "a white ball of teeth and growling" she did not hurt him at all. DH simply looked down at her and told her to "knock it off" as he walked into the shop, she stopped immediately and went and hid. DH coaxed her out and reassured her she was being a good girl but he wasnt going to hurt any of her poultry. He said it is really important she keeps her confidence so re-assurance that yes she is doing the right thing is important. After that she has been happy to see DH in the shop. DH told me to not go in the shop for a few days on my own just until he can be sure she is adjusted well and knows we are alright to be in "her" shop.

This is good! It means that she has already staked her claim and as you said, the shop is "hers." It is amazing what tender feelings GP's have. Mine are crushed if I scold them. Then I go love on them and everything is right in their world again. It sounds like Rose is going to be an awesome dog for y'all.


----------



## misfitmorgan

She does seem like she gets her feelings hurt easily. She also recovers fast with a bit of reassurance that she is indeed a good girl. We love her and she is already making us laugh.

Yesterday when we went into the shop, Rose barked at us again though only one bark and no meeting at the door. No meeting at the door because she had taken the "high ground"...she was on top of one of the hay stacks and laying up in the rafters. 

I have no idea how she managed to get up there since the shortest bale on the stack edge was 4 bales tall but she did and liked it up there it seems. DH called her down, then he moved the stack around so it is easier for her to get up and down the hay. DH left the door open so Rose could go outside, she went outside and went to investigate the goats/sheep. They took off sure she was going to murder them all and ran back in their pasture. Rose stayed pretty close to the shop and decided she had enough outside time so went back in the shop. She was using the hay bed i made for her but might be using just the hay bales now.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I loved my Pyrs! There was just something about those white, furry dogs and the hugs that they love. Mine always tried to get on my lap and they weighed more than I do! The last breeder we got one from has a litter currently and keeps asking if I want one (she's an enabler lol as she doesn't have trouble selling them, she just wants us to have one.) DH wants to wait a little longer...I want a sidekick for Queenie. We shall see how it turns out...love your Rose girl! What I wouldn't give to give her a Pyr hug!!!!


----------



## Baymule

For your GP viewing pleasure. 

Livestock is not all they guard. 




 

Taking care of the sheep.



 

This one was a tear jerker. Our Australian Shepard died in my arms and we were digging her grave, bawling like babies. This is Trip guarding his friend after trying so hard to wake her up. He laid on her grave for hours. 





Paris killing a snake. 





A full body Pyrenees hug. 



 

@Wehner Homestead have you reserved your pup yet? LOL


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Tentatively! The breeder knows that my DH is the one that needs convincing. I haven't ever just brought a dog home though I did in a round about way being home 8 kittens last year - thats another story - and I only got "the look" and an eyeroll!  I haven't decided if I want to push the issue or not. I have a few medical tests pending and that will tell me if I have the time to put in or not. Queenie's breeder will have pups from a different sire this summer too...decisions! 

I'd prefer one of each! I'll be the crazy dog lady! ​


----------



## Baymule

Pyrenees love.


----------



## Mike CHS

When the GP does that look I think they are all just about identical.


----------



## misfitmorgan

That's the same kind of looks Rose gives us though hers still have a hint of unsure in them. I look forward to the day that part is gone and she knows she can trust us. When she knows we have her back as much as she has ours.

I was reading up on Pyrs before i got Rose and I found many places saying female Pyrs do not get along and then i saw on Pyr resuce sites where if you had a female Pyr they would refuse to adopt you another female Pyr. Anyone seem this before?


----------



## Wehner Homestead

On the note of female Pyrs...the breeder I'm talking to has four or five females. There are some together depending on if they are with the goats or in with a pen of horses. She doesn't seem to have any issues. I'd have to ask for sure how she introduces them but I think new females are raised there or brought in as pups. 

My research seems to show that female Tolis are worse...

Maybe @Southern by choice and @babsbag can help here since they each have several LGDs though I'm not sure Southern has more than one female Toli. I know she has/had more than one female Pyr. Babs has had more than one female Toli...


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## babsbag

I have three female LGDs, one spayed. I only have one PB toli and I can say that I had an ad up on CL for awhile looking for a home for her. My oldest girl is spayed and 1/4 toli and she gets along with everyone but I believe that it is just her way. She is dominant and takes crap for no one and she has a calm menacing way of doing it...she sits on them. I've seen her do it to every dog I have brought here and her own puppies. She is a love and super friendly with people but the dogs leave her alone. 

My next one, Mia, is also 1/4 toli and wants to be dominant but is also a tad fearful of that responsibility which can make for some rough water. She doesn't back down easily to my youngest dog, Alondra, but eventually she will submit. Alondra is PB toli and the BOSS. Now that she is older she is bold and brave and in control of her surroundings. But she and Mia have called a truce so all is quiet for now. Alondra will be having pups in about 6 weeks so hoping that that doesn't stir things up too much. 

I honestly believe that it is not breed but the temperaments of the dog. Two dominant females will cause problems no matter what the breed.


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## Wehner Homestead

This was my first Pyr, Logan. He was a heart dog! Man do I miss him! I can't seem to find any hug pics but he was always on my lap when he could be! He would come in the house daily when I was pregnant and evening sick and put that big head on the bed to check on me. Logan would get a few pets and go back out to guard the farm!


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## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> I haven't ever just brought a dog home though I did in a round about way being home 8 kittens last year - thats another story - and I only got "the look" and an eye roll!


I think you were very lucky! 8 of any animal gets snuck in here better be refrigerated and ready to cook. I wasn't real excited when someone dumped a kitten on us last February. Already had 3 cats, more than enough. Can't imagine what I would do if 8 showed up.


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## babsbag

They melt your heart, don't they?


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## Wehner Homestead

Bruce said:


> I think you were very lucky! 8 of any animal gets snuck in here better be refrigerated and ready to cook. I wasn't real excited when someone dumped a kitten on us last February. Already had 3 cats, more than enough. Can't imagine what I would do if 8 showed up.



I'll write up the 8 cat story from last year and share on my journal as soon as time allows.


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## misfitmorgan

8 cats....DH would kill me.....8 dogs...well we are working up to that, 7 atm. I'm really torn on whether to re-home Stella or not. My only attachment to her is that she was my brothers dog. She listens well but she gets in fights with the other dogs kind of often esp with Kora(who kicks her butt everytime) she sheds like crazy, she keeps going in my bedroom and rolling around on my bed tearing the bedding all off and covering everything in black hair(in fairness i have caught Issac and Kora playing on the bed too).  She is food aggressive to the other dogs no matter how much food is there. I dunno i just feel like she would be happier in another home with more kids or less dogs. 

We went out and spent some extra time with Rose last night. She is still unsure of us but warms up after 10-15 minutes of petting. It's almost like she forgets who we are between seeing her, she always has to smell us and even then acts like we are going to suddenly kill her for a good while. I'm hoping it's just a matter of time. We did feel her down thru her coat and she is pretty darn skinny. We did get her wormed but DH commented on how she doesnt seem to be eating much. We put down about 5 cups of dog food the night we brought her home and she still had 3 cups down there. She has eaten all of the pork and venison we have given her though. We didnt give her any meat for 2 days in hopes she would eat the dog food but she didnt seem to touch it much. I did also try offering her the food that the house dogs get which is sportmix but she wasnt interested in that dog food either. 

Since she did not have meat for two days DH decided to test her for food aggression. He handed her a mostly thawed front leg of venison, let her start to tuck into it and then reached down and took it back. She showed no caring in the world that he took it, so he gave it back again and let her get a couple bites in before poking at the meat and moving it around, again she didnt care and just waited for him to be done. So zero food aggression even with meat which is good. 

The goats and sheep are getting either quite fat looking or are pregnant. No udder development yet that i can see on the goats, sheep are to fluffy to see from outside the pen. Tomorrow or thursday is fence raising day since it is suppose to be "warm" so i will get a good look/feel of everyone then. The sheep/goats generally have kids/lambs in February and March so not to much longer, if they are bred. I want to do a prego check but DH would kick my butt for spending the money atm.


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## misfitmorgan

I'm so excited!!! 

The vet i have been wanting to use took on an new vet and i didnt know it. The new vet specializes in Bovine reporduction.....disease management....and SMALL RUMINANTS!! So with the new vet i hope we can get a farm call done for a herd health check and then use them as our regular vets, esp since their clinic is only 7 miles from my house. They also have room to have animals stay on-site since the clinic is on the vets private 20 acres.


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## Southern by choice

Females- love 'em but they are what they are. 
I do not have two females in the same field- anywhere. Males-yes Females-No
It would be different if a bitch had pups and I kept the pup with her dam and she grew up or an older female bringing in a pup.

She will continue to warm up to you. Takes time, as you know.

So excited you will have a small ruminant vet- now let's just hope it is a good one! 

You can send in blood to Bio-pry for $4 each for preg check.


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## Bruce

@Southern by choice didn't address the eating thing, perhaps she will come back and do so. 

What little I do know about LGD Pyrs is that they may chow down one day and not eat for 2 or 3. "Here are your 4 cups of food for the day" just doesn't work. Merlin was like that the 3 weeks I had him. If he ate everything, I gave him more. If he didn't eat, I didn't add more food until he had finished what was in his bucket. 

I think you'll have to figure her out on that. Also, could be they didn't feed dry food at her prior home? If they did I would surely use the same food at least for awhile so she can gradually get used to something different if you think it is better for her.


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## Baymule

I am so glad that Rose found her home with you and your husband. She will make y'all a fine dog. 

Our Pyrs don't always eat, especially when it is hot. When I cook meat, I make dog gravy. WE don't need the gravy, LOL. I use sausage grease, pan grilled steaks juice. Tonight I baked chicken and poured off the fat for the dogs. It is a treat for them and they eat it right up. DH stirs dog gravy into their dry food.


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## Latestarter

I do the same thing for Mel (& used to for Mystie)... He gets all the scraps as well as drippings. I mix it with a portion of dry separate from his regular dog bowl that is always kept filled with dry food. Sometimes he eats every day, and sometimes it's days in between.   Luckily, he self regulates so no worries about gorging or starving. I can leave out enough food for several days and with sufficient water, he'd be fine if I have to travel or be away for a bit. Looking forward to future posts and pics of Rose. I just know she's gonna be a real sweetheart for you guys.

Maybe I shouldn't ask, but you haven't mentioned anything in quite a time... How's your mom doing? Hopefully well.


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## goatgurl

so tickled you got rose, she has such a sweet face.  she will get to being right at home before you know it.  and i'm sorry about mocha.  its hard loosing a friend.  
  I've had LGD's for better than 15 years now and have never kept 2 females together.  always a male and a female.  have only had 1 pyr in that time but have had toil's and maremma pairs, just works out better for me.
  I do like @Baymule and add grease or gravy to their dry food sometimes as a treat.  and yes, sometimes mine eat me out of house and home and sometimes they just look at me and go meh..  that's when I pull out the grease or gravy as a bribe.  maybe she just needs time to adjust to a different food.  and remember since she is in a small area she isn't expending any energy so probably not that hungry.


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## misfitmorgan

Southern by choice said:


> Females- love 'em but they are what they are.
> I do not have two females in the same field- anywhere. Males-yes Females-No
> It would be different if a bitch had pups and I kept the pup with her dam and she grew up or an older female bringing in a pup.
> 
> She will continue to warm up to you. Takes time, as you know.
> 
> So excited you will have a small ruminant vet- now let's just hope it is a good one!
> 
> You can send in blood to Bio-pry for $4 each for preg check.



Ok so keep other females in separate fields...got it. I would like to divide the goats and sheep into different pasture and i will need a guard for the goats when that happens...so probly get a male.

Yesterday was little strange i went in the shop, Rose was on her hay perch up the rafters but she didnt make a single sound, just looked at me. I talked to her and she decided she wanted to stay up in the hay. I think she may have been hot as it was 38F here yesterday.

I hope the vet is good too! I called and talked to the receptionist yesterday. With the new vet on staff either of the vets will be available 10am-3:30pm Mon-Fri and 11am-5pm Sat for farm calls. They also now have a second mobile large animal/farm call truck.

I never exspected Rose to eat a lot but she didnt even eat much of the venison we gave her. Maybe she is just hot, we went from -14 to 38f and today is 48f so huge temp swing.

My mom is doing ok, signs of her not getting better are there but all and all she is ok considering.

I did pour bacon grease over some food and take it down to her...still no go. I tried that yesterday.


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## Latestarter

My Mel doesn't really care as much for pure grease on his food. I've tried the bacon grease thing and he's just not fond of it... Maybe the particular brand?  No problem... I know now not to do that. His absolute favorite is cleaning up the scraps and juices from a nice rib eye steak. Can't say that I disagree with him there.  Actually, come to think, I don't really think it matters so much WHAT the meat is, as long as there's a goodly amount and some added water to make the juices better. He eats almost as well as I do.


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## Sara Ranch

My Prys eat everything!  They've never left food in their bowls.  I feed twice a day and sometimes give them a snack.

I know they had food issues and were underfed at their previous home.

I sometimes take the dogs for a walk (on leash) or let them run in an empty pasture...so they are "off duty" before they are fed.  (Please keep in mind that my dogs are adopted and I am the third or fourth home they have known, depending on how you count previous places.  I am still working with them to be "on duty" and "protect" and giving them "off duty" time every day.

What works for others may not work for you.  

Maybe Rose has some food sensitivities?  Is she getting enough water into her body?  Have you looked at her poop?  Does she get enough sunshine or run time each day?  It's hard to know if she does in the shop.

I'm hoping things turn around for Rose and she gains weight!  My girl is lean...but no bone skinny like she was when I brought her home.  

*hugs*


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## misfitmorgan

So Friday DH let Rose and the poultry out because it was sunny in the afternoon even though it was very cold. He stayed outside with her for about an hour, dusk was coming soon so DH decided to go in the house to warm up for awhile. When he got back outside all the poultry except one duck was in the shop and Rose was gone.

He called her and tried to find her but no luck. Rose stayed gone until yesterday early afternoon. We hated every minute of her being gone and I was super happy when I looked out the window and saw her standing by the shop door on Sunday.

I am getting really concerned about her lack of eating. I know you guys are saying that can be normal. Since she has been here she has eaten maybe 4 bites of dog food and probly a pound of meat. We have tried raw meat and cooked meat as well as organs(heart/liver). She has now been offered 3 types of dog food, she doesnt want any of them including the same kind she ate at her old home. Really stumped on how to get her to eat. 

@Sara Ranch Rose doesnt seem to drink much water either. We go down and give her fresh water twice a day, even so she maybe drinks a cup or so of water out of each fill. The rest freezes and we have to knock it out of the bowl to re-fill it. She did get her shot and her booster will be a in a couple of weeks then she can go to the vet. Sunshine in northern michigan isnt really a thing in winter though it has been more sunny here lately then is typical for this time of year.

Onto happier news....we had our first lamb born!!! On the 13th number 310 gave birth to a nice large ram lamb.We saw she was bagged up but didnt think she would go this early esp for being a FF. She gave birth sometime between 8-pm-midnight, between checks of course. It was -7 but she had the lamb clean, up on his feet and had fed him already. They were nickering back and forth, this morning she had the lamb out by the hay pile in the sunlight. Poor little lamb was shaking cause he was cold so i made him a lamb coat and DH got it on him. Hopefully he does well. We thought our earliest lambs/kids would be febuary but it seems when they went into early rut some actually got bred. Still hoping for at least one ewe lamb this year. This also means CDT needs to be given now.

In other, other news..... Eva is no more. She was scalded and scrapped on Saturday night then gutted and hung to dry for a week. So this weekend processing will commence, she is going to have a lot of bacon and some really nice hams. Her being gone also means the big girl pen is eating 25% less feed so that always helps. Eva is the last pig we are doing until late spring or early fall.

DH and i have both been sick for going on 2 weeks now and we are getting very worn out by it. Hopefully we get to feeling better soon.


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## CntryBoy777

Being under the weather during winter and the cold temps is never a wonderful feeling....hope y'all get to feeling better. Congrats on the lamb!!....glad it went well for ya and sure hope things get better for Rose, too.


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## Wehner Homestead

I agree with CntryBoy! The cold weather will zap it out of you and then being under the weather doesn't help either. I think the up and down if the temps are helping anyone with colds or sinuses and the flu is running rampant, along with a stomach virus. We keep getting all kinds of official updates on illnesses at work. I hope you both start feeling better soon! 

I wish Rose would settle in better. The poor girl sounds like she's very unsure of herself.  

Congrats on the lamb!  for ewe lambs!


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## Bruce

Still down one duck??? 
Wish I had some words of wisdom about Rose and eating.
Congrats on the lamb.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Still down one duck???
> Wish I had some words of wisdom about Rose and eating.
> Congrats on the lamb.



The duck was a muscovy and he decided to stay out for the night, he went back in with the other ducks on Saturday.

For Rose we will just have to wait and keep trying different things. I wish her confidence would be better, we are doing everything we can to boost it. She has yet to bond to either of us though i think she will pick DH...which i'm fine with.


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## Bruce

Glad the duck came back and that Rose hadn't taken it for a trip around back for snacking on.


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## Latestarter

Sorry you're sick... Been there and only just recovering. I can so identify with dragging butt... Hope you can get it kicked sooner rather than later. Glad you got the hog taken care of and will have a little break before the actual butchering. Now you've got me all concerned about Rose... Seriously glad she returned. I hope she'll start eating (and drinking) soon for you. I can completely understand your concerns.  Do you leave the food out for her so she can take it as/when she might desire?


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Sorry you're sick... Been there and only just recovering. I can so identify with dragging butt... Hope you can get it kicked sooner rather than later. Glad you got the hog taken care of and will have a little break before the actual butchering. Now you've got me all concerned about Rose... Seriously glad she returned. I hope she'll start eating (and drinking) soon for you. I can completely understand your concerns.  Do you leave the food out for her so she can take it as/when she might desire?



Hopefully we get better soon!! We need the break DH and I are both so worn out we have been going to bed at 8 or 9pm for days now. We were very glad she came back as well. We leave the food out and meat as well.


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## misfitmorgan

Most of these are on my lambing thread but i have some goat news for this side too.

You can pretty clearly see Phoebe's(full color boer on right) big prego belly in this picture.



 

 

 


 

 

 

I have confirmed Ivy(tog) has the very very start of building an udder, so i dont expect her to kid for awhile yet. Hazel(tog) may or may not be bred. Phoebe is definitely bred and will likely kid around the first week of February which is her norm. Cassioipia(alpine) looks prego but i didnt feel an udder yet so she maybe due later.


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## Sara Ranch

Congrats on the new addition!

With the super cold weather, some of my animals are eating WAY less than they normally would.  Drinking less too.  I keep an eye on all and make sure there is movement.  I encourage all to go outside daily.  The ducks get a pass when it's negative and single digit temps outside.  

For you - I am hoping it's the new environment and the cold weather that has her eating less than you think she should.  

For you and DH - *hug*  I hope you guys feel better soon!  I know it's tough to do farm chores and care for animals when you don't feel well and/or have an injury. Especially when the temps are cold!


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## Latestarter

Really glad you caught the "almost froze/past shivering" little ram lamb. That would have been a shame to lose him. Is his momma not caring for him?


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## misfitmorgan

Sara Ranch said:


> Congrats on the new addition!
> 
> With the super cold weather, some of my animals are eating WAY less than they normally would.  Drinking less too.  I keep an eye on all and make sure there is movement.  I encourage all to go outside daily.  The ducks get a pass when it's negative and single digit temps outside.
> 
> For you - I am hoping it's the new environment and the cold weather that has her eating less than you think she should.
> 
> For you and DH - *hug*  I hope you guys feel better soon!  I know it's tough to do farm chores and care for animals when you don't feel well and/or have an injury. Especially when the temps are cold!



Thank you! 

Rose has been eatting better since she returned and is being more engaging with us. she now meets us at the door and checks out what we are doing when we are in there.



Latestarter said:


> Really glad you caught the "almost froze/past shivering" little ram lamb. That would have been a shame to lose him. Is his momma not caring for him?



I'm glad i caught it too, the big tip off was the way he was standing and the where he was standing. Then after i picked him up and he didnt make a sound, you know something is wrong. His momma is doing an excellent job it is just that cold for him. Overnights have still been dropping into negative temps before the windchill is factored in. Momma is feeding him well and checking on him a lot, making sure he can nurse every 15-20 minutes if he wants too. I think 310 knows he is having a hardtime.


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## Latestarter

Maybe a lambykins parka or some such to help him retain warmth. Hope he gets his furnace working pretty quick. I remember cold like that and I don't much care for it anymore. Glad to hear momma is doing right by him... or trying anyway.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Maybe a lambykins parka or some such to help him retain warmth. Hope he gets his furnace working pretty quick. I remember cold like that and I don't much care for it anymore. Glad to hear momma is doing right by him... or trying anyway.



He has a little lamb coat on i made for him to try to help, he has had it on....probly not beefy enough. It's hard on single lambs in the cold, when there is more then one lamb they lay together and help share warmth. Being inside the barn near the pigs it is always a lot warmer then outside and zero wind so he should be ok now.


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## Baymule

It sounds like Rose is figuring out that she is in a good place. I hope she continues to warm up to y'all.

Sorry that you both are sick. You can lay it on the doorstep of being stressed beyond the breaking point,  by the whole process of buying, financing and moving to your new home-compounded by insane former landlords. And when you finally heaved a sigh of relief, you both were exhausted and your immunity was depleted. Boom. 

I hope you two can catch up on your rest. You certainly need it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> It sounds like Rose is figuring out that she is in a good place. I hope she continues to warm up to y'all.
> 
> Sorry that you both are sick. You can lay it on the doorstep of being stressed beyond the breaking point,  by the whole process of buying, financing and moving to your new home-compounded by insane former landlords. And when you finally heaved a sigh of relief, you both were exhausted and your immunity was depleted. Boom.
> 
> I hope you two can catch up on your rest. You certainly need it.



I certainly can't wait to be feeling better.

Didnt do much of anything yesterday, DH and i are both still sick. I believe we are having house guests this weekend to help process Eva. Hopefully we will get our pork bellies into some brine so they can get ready to be smoked. We also have somewhere over 150lbs of pork to grind. Eva will be hams (rear legs and front legs), bacon, loin/tenderloin, jowl bacon, and the rest will be added to what needs to be ground.


----------



## Sara Ranch

Are and DH feeling well enough to process Eva?  (I hope so!)

Did help arrive to help with processing?  (I hope so!)

Hope you guys start feeling better. 

*hugs*


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## misfitmorgan

Eva is still hanging, we had intentions of processing her and then both tie rod ends went out on the trailblazer..... 

So that was $80 in parts, really sucks we had just finally got caught up with bills and money and all and were looking at actually having a tiny bit of "extra" money and now the budget is back down to shoestring for another 3 weeks. This was going to literally be the first week i could breathe and not worry about what groceries to buy 

We will get eva done eventually, atm it is cold enough overnight she wont spoil.

We did have house guests and still have house guests, they will be helping split Eva tonight and possibly process part of her.

DH seems ok i still feel like run down garbage.


----------



## Baymule

Well, crap. I posted, it double posted, so I deleted one. Only it deleted both.  Phooey.

Here I go again.

I am glad you got the pig slaughtered and still have help to get her cut up. I know it is a weight off your mind to get that done. One of these days you will have to take photos of your processing. 

Are you taking vitamins, vitamin C, B complex? As run down as y'all are, you probably could use the boost. Sorry that you still feel so run down. Feeling like garbage.....have you squooshed any lately? 

That sucks about having to buy parts, but at least you don't have to pay repair labor $$$$. There never is a good time to break down, but some are worse than others. I blew my truck engine many years ago. After I quit crying (I was broke and poor) I got a bottle of Jack Daniels ( I wasn't_ that_ broke) and after the hangover, I felt much better.


----------



## Sara Ranch

*hugs*

On the bright side, there is progress with processing!  And the temps are cold enough to help.


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## misfitmorgan

I took some airbourne Bay, i dont think it helped much. I think part of my worn out is it being winter and not being able to go outside and do the things i want to do. Plus it geting dark so early and not being sunny much. I guess us northern people are actually suppose to take vitamin D in the winters but i dont know many that do. Wednesday will be 38F i really hope to go out and start pruning the apple trees because we want to use the wood to smoke the bacon/hams. I am also itching to get the grape's pruned they have been let go for a few years and are a bit of a mess. I took care of the rhubarb and asparagus before we got snow.

Been a few days since an update.

Eva is still hanging though she is split now and just waiting on the curing salt to arrive today for the bacon and ham. We thought about just salting her(with normal salt) to help preserve her because of the warmer temps but seems she is doing fine. 

We also thought about cutting her up but as DH mentioned  if meat spoils it spoils from the outside in usually, so leaving it the largest piece we can is better. Temps have been crazy, she was frozen rock solid in about 8 hrs the night we butchered. 8hrs is a fast freeze for a lump of 325+lbs of meat. Now we have had several days of daytime temps above freezing and two days(separately) of 45-50F. Meat is not spoiled but I will be happy to get the cure on.

The bacon is getting a dry cure(belly/jowls), back bacon would be wet cure and the ham will be a wet cure. Mostly because i just dont feel like cutting around the bones in the ham and packing them with cure. Atm we believe we will be doing hind legs into 2-3 hams each and shoulders into 2 hams each. We have several bellies to do including ones saved from the barrows, and jowls. So we should end up with 100lbs of hams, and 7lbs of jowl bacon, 60lbs of (normal)bacon, and 40lbs of back bacon, 12lbs spare ribs, 2 small loin roasts, and around 80lbs of ground pork possibly for sausage.

First problem to solve is enough large bins to do the cure's in. We have two 66qt sterilite containers with lids, i'm worried they wont be enough. If they are not enough we will do bacon first since it is faster, hams have to cure for 14 days.

So anyone who has made bacon....do you leave your skin on or take it off, if so before or after smoking? Not sure if we will leave ours on or take it off, if we take it off it will be after the smoke.

If you havnt seen our lambing thread here is a link
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/misfitmorgans-lambing-2018.37261/
A bit slow atm but we did have one lamb so far.


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## CntryBoy777

At the packing plant they left the skin on the bacon until it was smoked and was being packaged....then, if ya deep fry the skin ya can have a favorite around here...pig skins!!... be careful tho, the skin expands very quickly. I prefer the jowl bacon over any, it is the best....imo....sounds like a bunch of work ahead, but will be good in the freezer....and chilled meat does cut, slice much better than fresh.
Congrats on the lamb!!!..........


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## Baymule

I have cut up feral hogs for sausage but never a domestic hog until this past summer. It was a learning experience. We skinned the hogs. I made bacon, I put it in a zip lock bag in the refrigerator to cure it.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Plus it geting dark so early and not being sunny much.


Funny you should say it that way, at this time. DW mentioned just the other day that she was finally seeing light on both ends of her commute. 



misfitmorgan said:


> So anyone who has made bacon....do you leave your skin on or take it off, if so before or after smoking? Not sure if we will leave ours on or take it off, if we take it off it will be after the smoke.


Wouldn't smoking it first then taking off the skin mean less smoke flavor in the final product?


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> At the packing plant they left the skin on the bacon until it was smoked and was being packaged....then, if ya deep fry the skin ya can have a favorite around here...pig skins!!... be careful tho, the skin expands very quickly. I prefer the jowl bacon over any, it is the best....imo....sounds like a bunch of work ahead, but will be good in the freezer....and chilled meat does cut, slice much better than fresh.
> Congrats on the lamb!!!..........



I agree completely, chilled meat gives you pretty cuts, warm meat gives you "i think thats a ???" cuts.

We are not much for pig skins here, i never liked the flavor much but i've also never had them made with cured and smoked skin i dont think. 

DH said we cant make jowl bacon, Eva apparently has like no jowls. That's what he is telling me anyhow, we shall inspect further. We might also make shoulder bacon and bangers. Basically the entire pig is going to be made into processed stuff. The thinking is it isi our last pig and we have a few hundred pounds of fresh pork, we wont be slaughtering again until fall as far as we know and raw pork cuts are way cheaper then bacon/ham/sausage.



Baymule said:


> I have cut up feral hogs for sausage but never a domestic hog until this past summer. It was a learning experience. We skinned the hogs. I made bacon, I put it in a zip lock bag in the refrigerator to cure it.



Good to know Bay. I have never done a feral hog, we dont have them in our area. I will try to do pictures but you know my history with pictures. 



Bruce said:


> Funny you should say it that way, at this time. DW mentioned just the other day that she was finally seeing light on both ends of her commute.
> 
> 
> Wouldn't smoking it first then taking off the skin mean less smoke flavor in the final product?



I still only have light on one end of my commute, i leave my house at 5:10am and arrive at work at 5:50am, leave work at 3:05pm and get home at around 3:45pm. It has been getting to complete dark here around 6:30pm.

Perhaps marginally less smoke flavor. I dont think it would be a noticable amount less. This bacon is going to be dry cure bacon so it will be very different from store bacon in many ways.


----------



## Bruce

DW leaves around 6:45/6:50, gets to work around 7:30/7:40. Sunrise is at 7:13. Sunset is basically 5 PM so dark WAY before your local dark. Makes sense since we are in the same time zone. But the change from a month or so back is obvious. I was putting the chickens up at 3 PM. Now it is 4 on a cloudy day, later if sunny (whatever that is).


----------



## Mike CHS

Our butcher makes some jowl bacon that is so totally diving I can't describe it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> Our butcher makes some jowl bacon that is so totally diving I can't describe it.



Jowl bacon is some delicious stuff for sure!!



Bruce said:


> DW leaves around 6:45/6:50, gets to work around 7:30/7:40. Sunrise is at 7:13. Sunset is basically 5 PM so dark WAY before your local dark. Makes sense since we are in the same time zone. But the change from a month or so back is obvious. I was putting the chickens up at 3 PM. Now it is 4 on a cloudy day, later if sunny (whatever that is).



Official Sunrise today is 7:54am
Official Sunset today is 5:40pm
So here it starts getting light around 7am and it is complete dark by about 6:20-6:30pm. Wonder why your daylight is different?

So I've been working on growing mushrooms, after several mistakes and trial/error. We finally have our first mushrooms growing. Here is a picture



 
The wet look is because i had just misted it, normally things look more dry if left alone. Those mushrooms are grey dove oysters and they are TINY atm but grow fast. The largest "heads" in the picture are smaller then a pencil eraser still. This is what they will look like when ready to harvest.
http://raleighcityfarm.org/rob-jones-2/

This is who i actually ordered from
http://www.2funguys.com/store/greydove.html
They have some good pictures.

Next on the agenda is pink oysters, right after i clone the grey dove.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Longitude and latitude with the curvature of the earth explains the differences....here, the sun rises at 6:59am and sets at 5:28pm that is CST with Bruce living on the eastern edge of the time zone and you living closer to the western edge the times are different even tho ya are in the same zone....


----------



## Bruce

Right you are @CntryBoy777! It is approximately 500 miles as the crow flies from @misfitmorgan to me so the sun gets here 500 miles earlier  Of course that means she might have seen the partial lunar eclipse. The moon was setting and behind the trees on the hill behind our house when the eclipse started.


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Longitude and latitude with the curvature of the earth explains the differences....here, the sun rises at 6:59am and sets at 5:28pm that is CST with Bruce living on the eastern edge of the time zone and you living closer to the western edge the times are different even tho ya are in the same zone....



Very true, i had not taken that into account.
When i lived in a valley in Ohio it got light there almost an hour after sunup because the "moutains" blocked the sun from reaching the valley.



Bruce said:


> Right you are @CntryBoy777! It is approximately 500 miles as the crow flies from @misfitmorgan to me so the sun gets here 500 miles earlier  Of course that means she might have seen the partial lunar eclipse. The moon was setting and behind the trees on the hill behind our house when the eclipse started.



I didn't see anything, the little map on the weather site said we would have poor veiwing...they were right. We had a wall of clouds.

So that picture of the mushrooms was yesterday morning before i left for work. Here is one exactly 24hrs later.



Yes i know the camera angle was bad....and i know what two of those look like.....DH even commented when i showed him the picture


----------



## CntryBoy777

It looks like Mr Bill stuck in a pizza crust by Mr Hand....


----------



## Baymule

what do you have them growing in?


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> It looks like Mr Bill stuck in a pizza crust by Mr Hand....




You're bad!!



Baymule said:


> what do you have them growing in?



The substrate is used coffee grounds and vermiculite. All the white stuff is the mycelium which is like the roots of the mushroom. Basically you make your substrate it can be about anything, then you innoculate it with either grain/dowel spawn, spores, or mycelium(liquid culture or agar wedges), then it will grow and take over the substrate. 

Grain/Dowel Spawn to substrate = immediate mycelium growth
Liquid Culture/ Agar wedges to substrate = immediate mycelium growth
Spores to substrate = germination process then mycelium growth

Moisture is important as is temperature, container or substrate is really endless possibilities. You simply need substrate with nutrients in it for the mycelium to eat. Wood, coffee grounds, brown rice flour, cellulose, straw, manure, wild bird seed, rye berries/seed, popcorn kernels, really about anything.

Oysters are the easiest, fastest, most forgiving to grow. I messed up a lot on my experiment which is why it has taken 2.5months and im only just now getting mushrooms....but i'm still getting mushrooms!! I didnt keep the substrate wet enough, i didnt use a good container, i didnt air out the CO2, i put them in a place that was to cold, then in a place that was way to hot, etc.....yet here they are growing mushrooms.

Today's updated picture is from DH(i forgot to take one before i left the house)
24hrs after the last picture



 
DH took the picture from a different angle and his camera isnt as good as my phones but i'm pretty sure it is obvious how much that one mushroom has gown. That little straight up and down mushroom to just to the left of the monster mushroom.....was the smaller boy looking one from yesterday's picture.


----------



## mysunwolf

Beautiful oysters!! I'm so jealous, mine have never grown. Just looking at those photos is making me hungry  though I know the rest of you are a little concerned


----------



## misfitmorgan

mysunwolf said:


> Beautiful oysters!! I'm so jealous, mine have never grown. Just looking at those photos is making me hungry  though I know the rest of you are a little concerned



You should try again! I messed up so much and they are still growing for me. The blue/grey dove oysters seem to be really forgiving. I did start with 3 bags, 2 got contaminated but that was part of the experiment. I also have two jars of agar i made that i stuck dowel spawn into and they grew like gangbusters, next i will be making liquid culture from the dowels and making grain spawn so i can try a monotub for oysters. When it warms up a bit i also want to try straw in a laundry basket for oysters.

I have been dying to eat those mushrooms....they just need to grow a decent amount so i'm not having one mushroom per meal


----------



## greybeard

There is a fungus among us...


----------



## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> There is a fungus among us...



Oh for sure!!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Here are saturday's fungus pictures


 If you look in the backround of this first picture you can see white little spikey things, that is the very start of more mushrooms.




 
This is Sunday's Fungus picture


 

I have not seen more evidence of growth in this monster mushroom since Saturday afternoon so i will be cutting it off i think and seeing what the rest of the cluster does.

We had planned on making grain spawn and liquid culture off some agar jars i had started. After looking at the agar jars one jar was pinning(tiny white spikes) so we opened the jar and put it into the fruiting chamber(the big plastic tub). Here are some pics of it saturday.


 

 
Does anyone else see tiny castles in the clouds?

 

Then this is Sunday


 

This agar jar should hopefully make it all the way to fruiting, at which time i will clone these mushrooms. The mushrooms growing in the closed agar jar means they are Co2 resistant which is a good thing.

We did in fact get the grain jars and liquid culture made off of the other agar jar and some dowel spawn.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Very interesting!


----------



## Bruce

Castles in the clouds  Yes I see them.

I guess there isn't a "mature" size for this particular fungus or maybe you are just new to them and need to figure out what it is? Never have grown mushrooms on purpose though we do have some in the lawn.


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## Baymule

I agree, this is very interesting. I buy mushrooms from the store.


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## CntryBoy777

I sure love eating them, but haven't ever delved into growing them....sure have expanded my vocabulary following along....may give it a shot when things settle down a bit here....


----------



## misfitmorgan

It is actually very fun....and exciting. I never thought i would be excited about growing fungus but i really am. I did fail and forget to get you guys updated pictures this morning...gah!

The monster mushroom is definitely done growing, there is not a predetermined size on oyster you just want to get them before they drop their spores or go woody. I will get pics tomorrow..i hope.

The agar jar with the pins in it are now forming tiny heads....so wish i had gotten pictures for you guys..i ment too.

In other news i have the flu and DH has been on O/T for almost 3 weeks straight. We still need to make bacon/ham....good thing eva is hanging in the deep freeze(aka shop). DH did say something about bringing her up to hang on the back porch so we can more easily work on her.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I did fail and forget to get you guys updated pictures this morning...gah!




You don't have time to be sick. Hope DH doesn't get sick too.


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## Mike CHS

I was getting ready to ask if they got tougher as they get bigger and saw the answer in your post.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Wish ya a speedy recovery!!....
It is never good to feel so bad with many things to do and take care of....try to get some rest tho....


----------



## Latestarter

Seems like you've been worn out, tired, sick, for quite a while... Wish you could find time to take a short break/rest and get yourself well.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> I was getting ready to ask if they got tougher as they get bigger and saw the answer in your post.



They do indeed, though it takes awhile. Pretty much as soon as the stem starts to darken down from the snowny white color you better get picking.



CntryBoy777 said:


> Wish ya a speedy recovery!!....
> It is never good to feel so bad with many things to do and take care of....try to get some rest tho....





Latestarter said:


> Seems like you've been worn out, tired, sick, for quite a while... Wish you could find time to take a short break/rest and get yourself well.



Very true. I will get better when the weather warms up...i hope. I have been sick a lot, i am sure it is due to be worn down. At least it has been different sick.....cold....sinus infection....walking phnemonia...flu......


----------



## misfitmorgan

Now for some pictures.

Well first....i need to change some things on my mushroom grow. I need more light, more fresh air exchange, and a cooler temp. That will make the oysters grow as they should. So i'm going to switch over to a tub with holes in the sides, perlite in the bottom, and move the bin to the back living room in front of the picture window where it will be cooler and brighter.

In other news....some of those spikes on the mushroom log(the pizza cheese lookin thing) are turning into mushrooms.



 

 

 

This is an update of the oysters growing in the agar jar


 

That's all in mushroom news atm.

Here is a picture of Rosie Toes


 
She still acts a bit unsure of us at times but she is being an excellant girl. I still have more burr removal duty, she tolerates it well for about 10-15minutes at a time and then she wants to be done. She also has some matts by her ears i am going to have to cut out i think.


----------



## misfitmorgan

@Baymule you might like some of these....

Spot Pig


 

Sara


 

Herefords!!


 

 

And this hereford gilt....scaled the walls between her pen and the big girls pen and is now stuck in the big girls pen. We need to get her out....meanwhile she hides in the corner closest to her pen. i think she has learned there is nothing fun when you scale your pen.


----------



## misfitmorgan

A very prego Helga...i swear she is never gonna pop.



 

Mr. Pig


 

 
He is a bit wet in that second picture....he tips the water dish and plays in the water. The water dish is the bottom 3rd of a 5 gallon bucket btw for size reference. We got Mr Pig in July, 2015 as a 12 week old piglet so in the beginning of May Mr Pig will be turning 3yrs old. Helga will be 2yrs old in April(?? i think).

The ducks and some chickens


 

308, 310, Sweetie....and Rosie


 
Sweetie is looking at little thin.


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## Bruce

I'm glad Rosie is settling in. She'll be a great dog for you and your animals.



misfitmorgan said:


> I still have more burr removal duty, she tolerates it well for about 10-15minutes at a time and then she wants to be done.


Merlin was like that. I had him 3 weeks and that is about how long it took to get out the burrs.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I'm glad Rosie is settling in. She'll be a great dog for you and your animals.
> 
> Merlin was like that. I had him 3 weeks and that is about how long it took to get out the burrs.



I'm thinking i will be working on that project right into the warm months. She has several hundred burs...at least. Most you cant even see because they have been there so long. I started around her head and barrel....still not close to done.


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## Baymule

Rosie is beautiful. It will take a while to get her fur right. At least you have the spring coming up and she will blow her coat to grow in for summer. I used to brush mine, now I mostly pluck them. As the fur turns loose, I pluck it out, they seem to like that better. Then I run the Furminator over them. 

The pigs look healthy and happy. I do love those Herefords! If I was to raise pigs, they sure would be at the top of my list. But I will happily support those who do raise pigs by purchasing feeder pigs from them. So each time, we get a different breed or cross, it all works out.

The stress from a crazy landlord gave way to stress from trying to buy a place, then another place, all the mortal hell you are put through just for trying to have your own home. Man, has that process ever changed! 30+ years ago, it was fairly simple. Local bank, they were actually glad to do business, down payment, sign here, it's yours. Now, it's like you are some kind of terrorist (like they would want to buy a home before they blow themselves up) and you are treated like a criminal.

Then you had the stress from moving and that is a whole 'nother bucket of stress. It's no wonder that you have been so sick. You need to take a weekend off. Make a big pot of soup or stew, some French bread-make it all garlicky-and stay on the couch wrapped in a blanket. Maybe your husband would take over animal duty for the weekend? Mine will, but I still drag myself outside to take care of my babies, LOL

I hope you feel better soon, you sure need it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I'm trying to decide if i should cut the mats before or after her coat sheds out. The mats are not close to the skin yet and i am thinking after shedding there may be a chance i can brush them out. We shall see.

The pigs we have atm, except for Spot i do actually like. They have excellent personality, easy to gain weight, laid back attitudes, etc.

I know crazy stress. We did take this past weekend off...for the most part and i have been napping after work or going to bed at like 8-9pm. I am feeling a bit better now then i was the first 2-3 days. 

Thank you Bay!


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## Mike CHS

With our Maisy, the mats just get worse even when she is shedding since it just seems to hang on to the new and old hair.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> With our Maisy, the mats just get worse even when she is shedding since it just seems to hang on to the new and old hair.



I think Rosie's mats are mostly due to the burs stuck in them. They seem to be holding old shed hair from last year in them and making the mats worse. I have the two worst mats about half way combed out but she really doenst like me combing those spot since they are pretty close to her ears on either side of her head.

Hopefully i can get her brushed out before she sheds then, if shedding is only going to make it worse. I have noticed the more burs and mats i get brushed out the fluffier she gets.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Mats behind the ears happened every winter on our Pyrs. Lana (ES) used to pull burrs off of our first Pyr, Logan, with her mouth!!! I never had a problem with him having burrs as she literally removed every single one! She and Cooper never had that bond so he was always full of them and I had to work on keeping him free of them year-round. That became an even worse battle when he took to traipsing the country-side. Crazy dog! Either way, good luck. 

I also like mat rakes and furminator type brushes on my Pyrs with their thick coats. A shedding blade also works nicely during the crazy spring shed. I used to have piles that looked like we had another Pyr because there was so much hair. It was crazy to watch it blow all over the farm. 

You definitely need some downtime. I recommend some homemade chicken noodle soup (I’ll send you the family recipe if you want.) It seems to make a big difference and is always requested by anyone feeling drained or sick here. Might also add some vit d3. That helps my energy levels too.


----------



## Mike CHS

Homemade chicken soup is one of those all around fix everything foods.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Wehner Homestead said:


> Mats behind the ears happened every winter on our Pyrs. Lana (ES) used to pull burrs off of our first Pyr, Logan, with her mouth!!! I never had a problem with him having burrs as she literally removed every single one! She and Cooper never had that bond so he was always full of them and I had to work on keeping him free of them year-round. That became an even worse battle when he took to traipsing the country-side. Crazy dog! Either way, good luck.
> 
> I also like mat rakes and furminator type brushes on my Pyrs with their thick coats. A shedding blade also works nicely during the crazy spring shed. I used to have piles that looked like we had another Pyr because there was so much hair. It was crazy to watch it blow all over the farm.
> 
> You definitely need some downtime. I recommend some homemade chicken noodle soup (I’ll send you the family recipe if you want.) It seems to make a big difference and is always requested by anyone feeling drained or sick here. Might also add some vit d3. That helps my energy levels too.



I was going to buy a mat rake at TSC but our locally they wanted $16 for one and DH would have killed me for getting it. So i have a heavy comb...it seems to work but slower going i think. When i owned a husky a long time ago i used to use my horses shedding blade on her during spring. She would shed like crazy to where they was long rolls or partly shed hair hanging off of her and trailing the ground. Worst case i just cut the mats out, they are not huge mats but enough so every time you pet her you can feel them.

We had chicken and rice soup about a week ago. I was thinking of making chicken a noodle tonight actually.....i'm just not sure i want to make the noodles. We always have our chicken noodles with homemade scarf noodles.....aka pain in the butt noddles but so so good. I am always happy to see other recipes. I dont really have a recipe i just put stuff in it kinda....thats how i cook most things. I think my favoirte thing to make and eat is beef stroganoff...everyone who has ever had mine loves it even people who dont like mushrooms. 

Gah now i want beef stroganoff


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## Wehner Homestead

I’ll get you the recipe!


----------



## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> I recommend some homemade chicken noodle soup (I’ll send you the family recipe if you want.)


Heck with the recipe, send her the soup!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Bruce said:


> Heck with the recipe, send her the soup!



Lol! It wouldn’t make it out of the house! These kids (and DH) put a hurting on a DOUBLE batch!


----------



## Mike CHS

We did a couple of huge rib eyes on the grill last night and didn't eat half so the leftovers go into stroganoff tonight.


----------



## Latestarter

Man... love all this food talk. I enjoy making home made "poultry part" soup. I always freeze necks and the internal organs provided with whole chickens and turkeys. I fill to cover with water in a zip lock then freeze. When time to make the soup, I just take the frozen blocks out of the ziplocks and stack them in a pan to thaw while cooking. Nothing better to help with feeling sick or drawn down than fresh home made soup.   I LOVE beef stroganoff...  I mean it has all the best stuff in it... noodles, beef, dairy, shrooms, gravy... oh my... I love it but have never made it. I probably should


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> We did a couple of huge rib eyes on the grill last night and didn't eat half so the leftovers go into stroganoff tonight.


That is some fancy stroganoff!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Definitely fancy stroganoff!! Thank you for the  recipe @Wehner Homestead 

DH and i differ on our stroganoff preferences but on in one department. DH prefers meat chunks i prefer ground meat. We are having beef stroganoff tonight....i must have it!! I make it 2-3 times a month depending on what guests are over. Everyone always asks for it and icebox cake.

So here is my recipe.

Beef Stroganoff

Ingredients
1lb Ground Beef
1 can Cream of Mushroom Soup_(cream of potato works too)_
1 cup Sour Cream
1 cup Milk
Dash of Soy Sauce
Dash of worcestershire Sauce
1 Bouillon Cube
8oz Egg Noodles
Salt, Pepper, Garlic Powder

_Optional  Ingredients
Diced Onion
Frozen Peas
Mushrooms
Green Onions_

Cook noodles per package directions, While noodles cook.
Over medium high heat brown ground beef with optional diced onions/mushrooms, season with salt, pepper, and garlic powder to taste. Lower heat to medium low and add cream of mushroom, milk, sour cream, soy sauce, worcestershire sauce, and bouillon cube stirring to combine well. When mix begins to bubble add optional frozen peas or green onions, stir and turn off heat.
Drain noodle and serve sauce over noodles.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

That actually sounds appetizing to someone that isn’t much of a stroganoff fan. Mainly due to the mushrooms...

My mom makes stroganoff and uses leftover roast in hers. She does hers like Beef n Noodles and add the cream of mushroom and sour cream. 

I might need to get a roast out...Beef and Noodles sounds good now!


----------



## BoboFarm

I use ground meat for my stroganoff. I make it a couple of times a month because we all love it! And I don't use cream of mushroom  I use cream of chicken


----------



## misfitmorgan

Wehner Homestead said:


> That actually sounds appetizing to someone that isn’t much of a stroganoff fan. Mainly due to the mushrooms...
> 
> My mom makes stroganoff and uses leftover roast in hers. She does hers like Beef n Noodles and add the cream of mushroom and sour cream.
> 
> I might need to get a roast out...Beef and Noodles sounds good now!



I'm not sure what beef and noodles is....i mean other then literally beef meat and noodles.


----------



## misfitmorgan

BoboFarm said:


> I use ground meat for my stroganoff. I make it a couple of times a month because we all love it! And I don't use cream of mushroom  I use cream of chicken



We love mushrooms....even people who dont like mushrooms like mine. The cream of potato instead of cream of mushroom is surprisingly almost better then the cream of mushroom. Last time i used potato DH said he might actually like it better that way.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Actually stroganoff was the very first recipe I learned and cooked back in the 8th grade and cooked it for my parents and me. As the yrs have past there have been some tweeking, but basically the same. 

1 lb ground beef
2 Tbsp of butter
1/2 med chopped onion
2 cloves garlic smashed and chopped
1 sm can of sliced mushrooms
1 5oz can of evaporated milk
3-4 good shakes of worchestershire
1 tsp of better than bouillon
1 cup sour cream
2 Tbsp of flour
1 oz of Sherry
1/2 tsp of thyme leaves or tarragon

Saute onions and garlic in 2 Tbsp of butter until soft...if fresh mushrooms are used they can be done with the onions and garlic. Brown beef and drain add mushroom liquid drained from can, or 1/2 cup of water add bouillon, evaporated milk, worchestershire, sherry, thyme or tarragon, mushrooms, onions, garlic, flour, and sour cream....turn heat to simmer and stir occassionly while noodles are cooking. If the sauce gets too thick, add water from noodles to loosen it up a little. When noodles are done drain and mix with noodles or top portion of noodles with sauce. It is really delicious!!....Joyce doesn't like the sherry in it so it is eliminated and a bit more water is added to keep sauce from being paste. The sauce recipe will work for around the whole bag of noodles, but if more sauce is desired just fix less noodles....


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks for the recipes folks! I have saved them (both) for future use. I have made the hamburger helper stroganoff hundreds of times from when my kids were very young. It doesn't taste as good to me now (nor do the other flavors anymore). Not sure if they changed the product somehow or my tastes have just changed with age. It used to be good/simple/fast/filling/tasty to make for the kids and I for dinner. As a single parent, active duty and working 2 jobs, fast and simple was a requirement. Of course I used ground beef. I'd love to try it with small chunks of a tender cut like rib eye... I can imagine it would be incredible. I love mushrooms so... yeah, they'd have to be added.


----------



## Bruce

I don't know if DW would eat that or not. Would for sure have to leave out the mushrooms.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

misfitmorgan said:


> I'm not sure what beef and noodles is....i mean other then literally beef meat and noodles.



Bite-size chunks of roast with egg noodles and a gravy-type juice. I’ll work on that recipe for you! 


Edited to add: with enough gravy, it freezes well to be thawed in the fridge and reheated at a later date too! Great for leftovers and something DH can make the kids for supper on a day that I work. I just put it in the fridge the day before.


----------



## BoboFarm

@misfitmorgan I don't mind mushrooms but if they're squishy and slimy (like in cream of mushroom soup) I won't eat them. I have a problem with squishy foods  I can't eat russet potatoes, which is the usual potatoes used in things like cream of potato soup AND, as if that wasn't enough, my daughter and I can't eat gluten so I'm fairly limited on what cream of soups we can eat and that are available. I'm a special case


----------



## Latestarter

No need to duck and cover... lots here are special cases in one manner or another... All good!


----------



## misfitmorgan

My stroganoff recipe is really good, cheap and fast.....it is however not "real" stroganoff, @CntryBoy777  recipe is much closer to a true stroganoff. I mostly make it when i want dinner in 15minutes.

Thank you for sharing the recipe @CntryBoy777 !!

@Bruce I'm starting to wonder if your DW eats anything at all  
Try it with cream of potato instead.


----------



## misfitmorgan

BoboFarm said:


> @misfitmorgan I don't mind mushrooms but if they're squishy and slimy (like in cream of mushroom soup) I won't eat them. I have a problem with squishy foods  I can't eat russet potatoes, which is the usual potatoes used in things like cream of potato soup AND, as if that wasn't enough, my daughter and I can't eat gluten so I'm fairly limited on what cream of soups we can eat and that are available. I'm a special case



Understandable...there are things i dont eat either...like russet potatoes. No problems with squish but i think they taste like nothing. I use yukon gold, or red skin or something in that nature of potatoes. I mostly learned to love mushrooms because they are good for auto-immune. We all have our likes and dislikes.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Wehner Homestead said:


> Bite-size chunks of roast with egg noodles and a gravy-type juice. I’ll work on that recipe for you!
> 
> 
> Edited to add: with enough gravy, it freezes well to be thawed in the fridge and reheated at a later date too! Great for leftovers and something DH can make the kids for supper on a day that I work. I just put it in the fridge the day before.



Yes please!


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> @Bruce I'm starting to wonder if your DW eats anything at all
> Try it with cream of potato instead.


She won't eat white potatoes, other than French Fries (AKA Belgian Fries in France because that is where they originated) occasionally. With plenty of ketchup. She doesn't eat tomatoes either so it is kinda weird that she will eat 2 foods she doesn't like when they are combined.

She likes beef and fish. Right, the EXPENSIVE stuff! 

DD1 wouldn't eat it because it contains meat, DD2 likely wouldn't eat is because she's never had it before so she knows she won't like it. 

I'm not a fan of cream of mushroom soup either. My mother used to make scalloped potatoes with it. I'm not really a "Cream of" soup person but @CntryBoy777's recipe with all the ingredients separate is likely better since you don't have all the "preprocessed" stuff in it. That certainly changes the flavor and texture. If I were to make it with the specified ingredients, I think I'd slice up fresh mushrooms rather than use canned. And add another garlic clove or two, I LOVE garlic.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

You can make your own cream soup. There’s numerous recipes for it on Pinterest. I also like their option of being able to see who made it, if it turned out, what the did/would change. Just a thought.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> She won't eat white potatoes, other than French Fries (AKA Belgian Fries in France because that is where they originated) occasionally. With plenty of ketchup. She doesn't eat tomatoes either so it is kinda weird that she will eat 2 foods she doesn't like when they are combined.
> 
> She likes beef and fish. Right, the EXPENSIVE stuff!
> 
> DD1 wouldn't eat it because it contains meat, DD2 likely wouldn't eat is because she's never had it before so she knows she won't like it.
> 
> I'm not a fan of cream of mushroom soup either. My mother used to make scalloped potatoes with it. I'm not really a "Cream of" soup person but @CntryBoy777's recipe with all the ingredients separate is likely better since you don't have all the "preprocessed" stuff in it. That certainly changes the flavor and texture. If I were to make it with the specified ingredients, I think I'd slice up fresh mushrooms rather than use canned. And add another garlic clove or two, I LOVE garlic.



I know you have a tough situation with everyone likes and dislikes and medical needs. My mom raised us in the here is dinner eat it or go hungry style so i think i will always have part of that but i do try to make things for people that they like and leave out stuff they dont like.

Dinner last night is a good example
My bowl on the left, DH on the right



 
DH likes his stroganoff with thicker sauce and no peas, i like mine with slightly thinner and frozen peas. So i make it thick serve his then add milk and peas, reheat for a minute and serve mine. If he wants seconds he just lives with thinner sauce and peas 

I also make chili "dryer" then i would have it on my own and hotter, keep all bread out of liquids for DH, make gravy thicker for DH, etc.....so i do make adjustments, just only so many 

I also love garlic....and onions. Every so often i make fresh rolls, roast a head of garlic, and devour it.


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## misfitmorgan

Since i forgo to take pics when i left for work yesterday....here are pics when i got home.

If you look at the large size of this picture you can maybe see about 9 different oyster clusters growing.





 

 


Hopefully in those pictures you can see the tiny pins coming up all over the "log/brick"

These are picture from this morning...so approximately 12hrs later.





 

 

 


You can see some/most of the pins have turned into spikey little growths or gotten grey heads.


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## misfitmorgan

The agar jar yesterday after work



Then this morning




The agar may have stalled out.

As you may notice the bin they are living in has changed. They now live in a tub with gas exchange holes(mushrooms make co2 and need oxygen, so need air exchange) they are closer to the window, in a cooler area and now are on a bed of perlite to hole moisture and keep the relative humidity stable. 

Basically thats a fancy way of saying, i drilled some holes in a plastic tub, dumped in perlite and water, then moved the bin over on the table.


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## Wehner Homestead

Fortunately DH and I have mostly the same likes and dislikes. So far, the kids each have their own tastes. The older two will try anything that we encourage them to. DD1 is my least picky eater but she’s more of a grazer so that has its own issues. DS prefers meat, then carbs and dairy. Veggies are a daily guess and forgot most fruits except apples. He can eat three whole apples at a time at the age of 4! DD2 is a nightmare to feed. She’s the “picky by meal” type. What she will eat at one meal, she won’t eat the next time you offer that. Also, she has a strict diet due to her digestive issues so most things she would eat aren’t allowed!  Her plate still looks like everyone else’s just very small servings until I know what she’s going to decide to eat. This gives her the option of trying everything the rest of us are eating. Either way, we try to make the best of it and meet their nutritional needs as best we can.


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## CntryBoy777

I grew up in a very similar situation....Mom's saying was, when ya get hungry enough you'll eat it. Well, that is what inspired me to learn how to cook, so I could have options. I always take the other's limitations into consideration, because I want others to enjoy my food....it doesn't do me any good if what is fixed is not eaten. We have a GD that is allergic to many things and when she visits we eat her diet so she doesn't have to be concerned about this or that. Joyce has more restrictions than I do, so I fix things that she can and will eat, and leave the things I like out or in the past....it is not a big issue for me. Your stroganoff looks Good....it doesn't take very long to fix mine either only 3 pans and whatever dishes are used....leftovers store well and are great reheated....


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## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> What she will eat at one meal, she won’t eat the next time you offer that.


I have the same problem with DD1. I'm not a restaurant, I don't have a dozen entrees to choose from every night. She often has to deal for herself because I'm SURE not going to make something she likes only to find out she doesn't want it "today". Unfortunately she doesn't eat much and dinner might be a glass of milk and some veg I cooked (if she feels like it that day). DD2 won't eat most any cooked veg and only some raw. She does like fruit.



misfitmorgan said:


> i like mine with slightly thinner and frozen peas


DW would definitely want the peas.


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## Baymule

I hate bananas and ketchup. Blech. I eat most everything else.


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## misfitmorgan

Yesterday Helga had 11 piglets, 8 were live. Sara should be having piglets any day now as well.

Almost all the snow here is melted, which leaves us with a lot of standing water on top of frozen ground but i am loving the warmer temps and so is the livestock.


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## Baymule

No baby piglet pictures?


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> No baby piglet pictures?



Not yet, DH thought she might still be in labor so i didnt want to go snapping pics because i need to use my flash and Mr. pig was already freaking pretty good.


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## Bruce

We have just over 60°F yesterday, the ground is mostly non white, the top 1/2" melted so it was squishy. The chickens were super happy to come out and forage, they don't care for snow much. Below freezing today so things firmed up.


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## misfitmorgan

Pilgrim has been acting odd and seems thin. I am wondering if he is having some sort of tooth problem. The vet should be coming out the first week of March so i will see what she thinks.

Some of the sheep have decided they no longer want to stay in the electric net, which is fine as long as they stay in the back yard or anywhere else on our 12 acres that is not the highway. We have put t-posts in to make the fence tougher to walk over, raised the fence, checked the fencer....and still the sheep are now walking over it. Not all of the sheep mostly the two rams. We have plans this weekend to clean our fencer terminals, to make sure there is good contact. Then we will reducing their pen down to one net and run three strands of electric on the inside of it. That only needs to last them until the ground thaws enough to put up some real fence. If that doesn't work DH says they are going into the bottom of the 2 story until we can put up proper fencing. It will be a wreck but it is better then being on the highway.

Our animals are pretty happy about the early snow melt. That's part of the sheeps problem they are looking to graze but there is nothing to graze yet.....doesnt stop them from trying.


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## Bruce

My 2 alpacas are the same, out in their pasture nibbling away at ... something I guess. The chickens are finding grass around the house. Last year's of course, frozen and thawed and frozen again for their convenience.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> My 2 alpacas are the same, out in their pasture nibbling away at ... something I guess. The chickens are finding grass around the house. Last year's of course, frozen and thawed and frozen again for their convenience.



I literally went and looked where they were "grazing" and there is nothing but dead brown grass matted flat down to the ground from the snow. My conversation with the rams went something like this....."Yes i completely understand how this dead dried up grass you have to pry from the muddy ground is better tasting and less work then the two bales of fresh hay you have in your pen" *nodding the whole time*


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## Bruce

ME TOO! They are hardly eating any hay so they must be finding SOMETHING of value in the brown.


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## misfitmorgan

Livestock


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## Baymule

Naturally they want the dead muddy grass rather than the nice fresh, put up with love, hay. Just like the chickens ALWAYS run to drink the dirty water I just dumped out, instead of the clean, clear fresh water I refill their tub with.


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## Bruce

Yours too? And people get all concerned that their chickens have really clean water every day. Mine will hit a puddle in the dirt first if they can. Probably has more flavor and minerals.


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## Wehner Homestead

Exactly! Our brood cows have an automatic waterer AND a spring that runs constantly (one is on one end of the pasture and on is on the other end) and we still see them drink out of puddles!


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## CntryBoy777

Awww!!.....they have that available all the time....same taste, same consistency, same content....so, they are just wanting a different taste in their mouth than the same ol', same ol'....goats are suppose to be picky about their water, but ours will go to a bucket that has algae and leaves and dead bugs in it....than to drink the water in the buckets that I fill out of the well in a sanitary bucket and put in their pen in 3 different places....but, I still offer them clean fresh water.....


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## Baymule

At least the Hereford pigs we just got are pretty smart....they want that CLEAN, FRESH, COLD water!


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> they have that available all the time....same taste, same consistency, same content


Except today, they got the water the ravioli was cooked in last night


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## misfitmorgan

All of our animals get fresh water too but i still find them doing stuff like drinking nasty water out of questionable containers pretty much every chance they get.


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## misfitmorgan

This post is mostly all sad news so you may want to skip it.

We found our Llama dead inside the shed/car port thing yesterday. Really unsure what happened to him at this point. He was thin but not die in a matter of 12hrs thin, his eyes were clear and bright, he was wormed even though he has never had a problem with worms. Rather dumb founded on this one. I was literally petting him 10hrs before we found him dead and cold. He was oddly in a spot he has never laid before and laying out flat, rather then leaning against the wall as usual. We are really upset because we dont know what could have caused his death, he has been rather sad since his wifey passed but i don't think that was the problem. DH does not want to do a necropsy on him, i would feel better if he did. Worst part is there is no way we can dig a hole big enough to bury him because the ground is frozen and we have no machinery to dig.

Helga had 8 mini piglets as i mentioned, Friday night they were gone. We have no idea what happened to them, they are just gone from their pen, no bodies nothing. Her pen set-up was not ideal by any means and she had to much bedding so may have over nested them. Her pen is also not brightly lit so she may have laid or stepped on some. The mini piglets are soooo tiny it doesnt take much for them to be injured and die in the first week or two.

Yesterday morning DH took our little doeling outside to spend the day with her mother. He found the doelings twin brother dead. He very clearly looked to have been laid on or rolled on.

I love lambing/kidding/farrowing season but the good always seems to so easily be out weighed by the bad at this time of year. I find myself kidding myself for not having figured out how to set things up better. I didn't imagine i would have to worry about a kid being laid on and killed with so much space in their shelter 

It's been a rough weekend, there has been some good though which i will tell you about in my next post.


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## Baymule

I am so sorry. Your llama, piglets and the buckling, allgone. One is hard enough, three is a kick in the gut. The joys outweigh the bad, but that doesn’t make the bad hurt any less. Big hugs.


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## frustratedearthmother

So sorry for the losses.... one heartbreak after another is hard to bear.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you Bay 

Sara also had her piglets. Yesterday afternoon Sara had 11 piglets, DH assisted for the last 6 piglets. He basiically just made sure their mouth/nose was cleaned off and split the sack down their back then shoved them towards the right direction aka the milk bar.
Sara is a our 75% duroc sow and this is her 3rd farrow, the boar is our registred hereford boar. So this litter makes him a proven boar. All the piglets came out red and white. Best count so far is 6 girls/ 5 boys...there is a little runt and a bigger runt so we shall see how they do.

We did make a temporary pen for Sarah until we can get the big pen split, she seems pleased.

Sooo....here are some pictures because i know how you all are....

Rosie



 
Rosie was very very interested in those new piglets.....hopefully not because she eats so much pork.

Here are the 11 piglets and Sara


 

 
That piglet to the right of Sara on the hay pile is an adventurous one....she was all over that pen and she isnt more then an hour old. The last piglet was born 10 minutes before these pictures.



 

 

 
Can you spot our little runt piglet? They are all so stinking cute, today i will start sitting in the pen with them so they know people. I would not sit in the pen with Spot or Laverne, Sara is a very gentle mild mannered sow. She is one of the few sows that is calm enough to let you cut the male piglets inside the pen with her.

DH is talking about selling Sara back to the guy we bought her from, because we have 5-6 replacements for her now. I really want to keep her though, her personality is just to good.

Here is a picture of Backfire our hereford boar.


 

After Sara got put into her farrowing pen, Backfire got moved into the big pen with Spot and Laverne so he can breed them. Our hereford girls should already be bred.

The piglets from this litter will likely be sold a barrows for $100 or as boars for $200, we should be retaining all gilts.


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## misfitmorgan

frustratedearthmother said:


> So sorry for the losses.... one heartbreak after another is hard to bear.



Thank you FEM it is hard. Really makes us feel like poor owners, it also shows us where we need to make some major changes when we get our permanent fencing put up and design our permanent shelters.


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## Wehner Homestead

Wow! I definitely didn’t expect all the bad news when I checked in this morning. That’s beyond sad! I just really wish I could give you a real bear hug but I guess I’ll have to settle for sending a cyber one .

You had mentioned the wether being rough with the kids...we had a Boer doe that killed another doe’s kid because we let her have it in the pen. He looked laid on too (single). We only figured out what truly happened when the next doe kidded and we happened to witness her being a witch and rescued them. Went back to kidding pens and she got sent to slaughter. Just a thought. I’m very sorry for your loss though. I hope his sister is continuing to get stronger. 

That’s wonderful news on Sara’s pigs! I’d want to keep her too! Between being a good mom and having a good temperament, that’s a win-win. Btw the piglets are adorable!! If I was closer, I’d need a pair of barrows!


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you Wehner 

The wether was rough on that boy but only that one time that i ever saw and we were out there a lot lately. This boy was definitely laid on...he was shaped like the ground, which made me even more sad. Now i want to move the two mom goats and their two kids to some place separate, problem is we have no place to move them too. We could put them in the shop but they would beat up the sheep i'm pretty sure. DH mentioned maybe bringing the sheep and lambs out and potting the goats in...i dont like that idea much.

We are happy about Sara's piglets, she did an excellent job.


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## Mike CHS

That was a terrible day for you I know but I'm happy that you are having some good things to overcome the other.


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## BoboFarm

So sorry to hear about everyone that you've lost 

Congratulations on the little piggies though


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you Mike and Bobo.

We are going to try to focus on the good stuff, like new pigs, the doeling is doing well, and spring is almost here for us...which means we can start clearing for fencing soon.


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## CntryBoy777

Sorry for the losses....
I know has been a whirlwind time with getting the house and land, moving, and settling in....and things will get better as ya work to improve your situation and get things better suited for your operation. Ya have come a looong way in a very short period of time, so don't be too hard on yourself. Sure glad for the little ones to help ease the sadness....things will sure get better and there are Brighter days ahead....


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## Latestarter

Echoing what everyone else said, so sorry about all the back to back losses. I couldn't "like" that post... I'm so glad that it wasn't that new doeling that got crushed... That would have really hurt deep considering how much you've put into her and how special she is. Sure hope it all works out and congrats on those cute piglets! I think I'd really want to keep a friendly, good momma sow too. Yup, spring is coming... hopefully not too much farther off for you. I have leaves budding down here. And in the course of a week, I need to mow, but the ground is a sponge and I'm pretty sure even the light lawn tractor would sink in and the blades/deck would clog in no time from the wet growth.  Hope the rest of your birthing season goes well.


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## Bruce

I can't add anything to what others have said but


I think I'd be afraid to look around the next corner after all that.

Perhaps you should bring the goats and their kids into the house for their safety


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## Baymule

What beautiful piglets! I just want to hug and squeeze them! (wearing earplugs) LOL Sara sounds like a keeper, with a great disposition like that and being a good mom, she'd have a place in my barn! You really get $200 for half Hereford boars? At what age? Wow! They must really be popular up there. We paid $175 for the 3/4 Hereford boars we just bought, they are 4 1/2 months old. I thought that was a good deal, they are half way to slaughter. Then I saw Hereford  6 week old piglets for sale at $100 each, that convinced me more that we got a good deal. 

Rosie is looking good, healthy and happy. I am glad that she is working out for y'all and i'm happy for her too, that she found such a good home.

I like the name Backfire, he is one handsome hog! It won't be long before you have lots more piglets! I love those Herefords!

When I startle the pigs, they make a barking noise. It is funny. I never heard pigs that bark, but these do. Piper is more bold and barks more that Poodle. Yeah, I know, great names for slaughter pigs, courtesy of our 3 year old grand daughter who is already saying eat the pigs. LOL Do your pigs bark?


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## Wehner Homestead

Baymule said:


> What beautiful piglets! I just want to hug and squeeze them! (wearing earplugs) LOL Sara sounds like a keeper, with a great disposition like that and being a good mom, she'd have a place in my barn! You really get $200 for half Hereford boars? At what age? Wow! They must really be popular up there. We paid $175 for the 3/4 Hereford boars we just bought, they are 4 1/2 months old. I thought that was a good deal, they are half way to slaughter. Then I saw Hereford  6 week old piglets for sale at $100 each, that convinced me more that we got a good deal.
> 
> Rosie is looking good, healthy and happy. I am glad that she is working out for y'all and i'm happy for her too, that she found such a good home.
> 
> I like the name Backfire, he is one handsome hog! It won't be long before you have lots more piglets! I love those Herefords!
> 
> When I startle the pigs, they make a barking noise. It is funny. I never heard pigs that bark, but these do. Piper is more bold and barks more that Poodle. Yeah, I know, great names for slaughter pigs, courtesy of our 3 year old grand daughter who is already saying eat the pigs. LOL Do your pigs bark?



Ours have all “barked” when they get wound up just right. I’ve had pigs do it in the show ring before! Makes for an entertaining show with a lot of exercise for the showman. Lol


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## misfitmorgan

The losses really suck and no i didnt even go out to see the animals yesterday. Lucky i didnt.

DH and our house guests went out and found we only have 8 piglets left from Sara's litter and she is not letting them nurse. In her defense, there is something really wrong with her. She is cold and shaking like a leaf while it is 45F and she is laying on a pile of manure that is heating. DH thinks she has gone anemic so he gave her a shot of iron. I think she has milk fever so today we are getting some cmpk or Cal-mag-co(whichever is on the shelf) and injectable calcium if she is not better when we get home. We may lose the entire litter as she was not letting them nurse at all yesterday afternoon. The odds of being able to effectively bottle feed them are slim to none, though i did bring up the idea to DH. The bigger problem is Sara being suddenly very very grumpy. So hopefully she is doing better today and lets the piglets nurse.

Pigs bark when they are startled or annoyed. Basically it is a warning to whatever is annoying them or "coming to get them". All of our pigs have barked.

The $200 would not be only because they are half hereford boars, it would be because they are half hereford boars off of some of the top hereford show lines in the US. Backfire's grandpa sold for something like several thousand at 7 months old. I will have to locate his registration paper to look it up again for sure. The only nice thing about pigs is a pig's grandpa might only be 18 months old. Looking up pedigrees on herefords atm is complex to not possible because the once separate National Hereford Hog Association is now being taken over by CPS Swine for the record keeping, there is also a National Swine Association, and a Midwest Hereford Hog Association. Basically...they need to get their act together.


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## Baymule

Oh no, poor Sara. I hope she is ok. I hope you don’t lose the babies.


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## misfitmorgan

I hope we don't either. I was so excited when they were born.

This season seems to be particularly hard, with losses and nothing set up as we would like....yet. The ground is starting to thaw, hopefully we are in for an early spring despite that stupid rat and his shadow.


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## Latestarter

Damn... Sorry once again. Come on Sara! You can do it!


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## misfitmorgan

I hate this. Every time we have a loss of anything it makes us feel like such failures, failures as care takers, herd managers, farmers, etc. We don't see the "dangers" until after something is already dead or dying and then it is so obvious we dont know how we were so stupid that we didnt think of that.

I know we do the best we can humanly do with what we are working with...just times like this make me want to sell everything and give up. Of course then i go home and spend time with my animals and tell them i'm sorry i let them down and i will do better and i don't really want to sell them.

Blah I hope things improve this year, 2017 was bad enough all on its own to last me for at least 3 years.


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## CntryBoy777

It is very difficult to not get distracted in the whirlwind that ya have been thru....we all have times like that and it is a shame when it comes at a price, but as this year unfolds things will certainly get better for ya as ya have time to prepare your set-up and won't be dealing with "Make Dos" for the animals. Keep your chin up and looking forward and step by step ya will come out of the mist....


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## Hipshot

misfitmorgan said:


> I hate this. Every time we have a loss of anything it makes us feel like such failures, failures as care takers, herd managers, farmers, etc. We don't see the "dangers" until after something is already dead or dying and then it is so obvious we dont know how we were so stupid that we didnt think of that.
> 
> I know we do the best we can humanly do with what we are working with...just times like this make me want to sell everything and give up. Of course then i go home and spend time with my animals and tell them i'm sorry i let them down and i will do better and i don't really want to sell them.
> 
> Blah I hope things improve this year, 2017 was bad enough all on its own to last me for at least 3 years.


 But your not alone there are many that follow that path . While one would hope that all would be perfect . It really never is . Seems like your always one disease away from success of failure . So you see they walk hand in hand . Each success means you've done something right . While each failure means you may or may not have done something wrong .  Farming and animal care is a labor of love . It is not always for the tender hearted . But a tender loving heart is a must to succeed with some animals .  You will win and you will lose , there is no greater lose than not to try at all . Strength comes from within and is  the ability to face heartache and march forward toward the future . Knowledge and wisdom come from failure .  Never be afraid to fail and except failure with dignity  .  Gather you knowledge, and proceed on with your chosen task.  Perhaps this will be your best year yet . Good luck .


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## Baymule

The difference is, now you have your own home and are not subject to the whims of a mentally disturbed landlord. You had to move and move quickly without any time to get your new home prepared for your animals. I think the two of you have done outstanding in light of all the obstacles thrown in our way. Spring is coming and y'all will be very busy getting things the way you want them. It will get better. 

Sometimes I feel like a lousy (insert animal here) mommy. When I find a dead, dying or it just died in my arms, I feel like the worst animal owner ever. I cry, I grieve, sometimes I get mad and cuss everything wrong in my world. None of it makes any difference, but a hug on a big hairy dog or my big goofy gelding licking my arm, sure makes me feel better.


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## Latestarter

Gotta second the big ole' hug on a big hairy dog for feeling better... I am generally more comfortable with dogs than people (I don't know well). They always make me feel better just being with them.


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## Wehner Homestead




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## misfitmorgan

Yes i know things are different now...it just gets you down.

On happier news....Sara is better, she was anemic. Normally that doesnt happen but i assume it was from labor, she had a heck of a time with 2 of the 11 which included a 20 minute "pause" for each.

We still have 8 piglets and they are healthy and fat looking. Sara is back to being a good momma.


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## farmerjan

Glad to hear that you could solve the problem Sara was having as easily as that.  Nice to be able to not have to spend a huge amount of money, or time or loss.  The little fixes like that make you appreciate it , because as you well know and have experienced, there are always those "fixes" that are expensive or result in tragic losses.  Just found one of the "last calf" old cows out flat dead the other day.  That group had just started calving, and she was on flat ground, not like she got her back down the hill or anything.  She was in good flesh  and have no idea what happened.  So I can well sympathize with problems and losses.


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## misfitmorgan

It really sucks when you do the "things you're suppose to do" and the animals appear in good shape and then poof, dead.

We have only just realized today, we have a bigger problem. We now have no herd guardian for the sheep/goats.

We are glad sara improved from just a shot of iron....i was so relieved. We were really shocked when she wasnt acting right because her weight is perfect for farrow, she wasn't dehydrated. She has also been on dirt for the past 4 months so should have had access to iron. We have discussed getting an oral iron supplement and dosing our girls that are close to farrow. Also  possibly getting sweet iron mixed right into our pig & sow feed, the mix is 12.5lbs(1  bag) per ton with a cost of $16 per bag.


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## Baymule

Sorry about your cow @farmerjan it sucks to find one dead and you don't know why. You do everything that you to know to be right and still kick yourself wondering, why. Big hugs.

@misfitmorgan  I am so happy that Sara is better. I am glad that your husband found what the problem is and was able to "fix" it for Sara. You know I'll be wanting more pictures of those adorable little porkers!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Sorry about your cow @farmerjan it sucks to find one dead and you don't know why. You do everything that you to know to be right and still kick yourself wondering, why. Big hugs.
> 
> @misfitmorgan  I am so happy that Sara is better. I am glad that your husband found what the problem is and was able to "fix" it for Sara. You know I'll be wanting more pictures of those adorable little porkers!



We will be doing piglet iron shots today so i will get you some more pictures Bay. Unsure how we are going to do the shots as we have no pen to move Sara or the piglets too to do them, last time we ran the piglets into an adjacent stall thru a piglet door and blocked it off to do iron shots, then again to do castrating for the sold piglets. Should be interesting, Sara has her usual sweet disposition back so that should help.


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## CntryBoy777

Is Rosie not ready to guard the sheep and goats?
Glad that Sara has made the turn for the better...that has to be a relief for y'all.


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## Latestarter

You say you "now" have no herd guardian...What happened to the one you had?


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## Bruce

I think she said Rosie is supposed to be the chicken guardian. Or not, if I just remembered wrong.


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## Wehner Homestead

Latestarter said:


> You say you "now" have no herd guardian...What happened to the one you had?



I think she’s referring to the loss of the male llama...


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## Bruce

Right. The llama was the guardian for the 4 legged herd.


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## Latestarter

Oh... shoot, that's right... I forgot all about that loss with everything else she/they've been dealing with...


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## misfitmorgan

That is correct.

Pilgrim the llama was the guardian for our sheep/goats and a very excellent guardian he was, we literally watched hi chase off 5 coyote's one night. The pack was between the old house and our old barn and he went over the fence and chased them off of our property. I woke up to odd noises so i looked at the window and saw a coyote's run by and pilgrim hot on their heels. DH ran out with his gun but by the time he got out there pilgrim was at the back of the property and the coyote's were gone. Pilgrim heard DH walking and came back full speed huffing and puffing and was going to attack DH until he realized who it was. After that DH said he had a home with us for life. We never saw coyote's again, heard them but didnt see them on our property.

Rosie is ment to be a poultry guardian. She seems fine with the sheep in the shop but the sheep don't like her as of yet. I would try to put her out with them but one the fence is way short to keep her in atm and two i am worried the sheep and goats will attack her. Esp the new moms, they seem very concerned with our house dogs when they are outside. While she is suppose to guard the poultry, she seems not at all interested in them. She is very interested in the sheep and lambs...in a good way. Whenever i am spending time with the lambs she is right there  by my side sniffing all over them. The momma's take exception to this and rush her but no contact has been made that i have seen. The rushing is mostly 308..who has no lamb but is 310's full sister who does have the ram lamb.

I also found out rosie likes pig & sow feed....a little odd but meh. We are thinking of getting another LGD after we have fencing up, maybe around fall. That way we have an LGD team since we lost Pilgrim.


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## Bruce

I wonder if Rosie had 4 legged charges before you got her. Could be that or her genetic instinct to want to protect them. I think with some supervised introductions they might figure out she is OK. 

The people that gave us the alpacas had a herding dog and a GP, neither were working dogs nor were they ever in the same area as the alpacas and 3 goats so the alpacas didn't have reference to the dogs being their guardians. Rather they were noisy things in the next yard over.

When Merlin came the boys were a bit worried but his initial interest was in sniffing their noses, then the poop pile then their butts (to make the connection I guess). Then he wanted to check out the fenced in area.

At first there was still chicken wire on the gate across the barn alley. Boys on one side, Merlin and chickens on the other. Of course the gate is only about 3' high and when the south barn door was closed and he was "trapped" inside, he just scaled the gate and went out the alpacas' always open door. They figured out pretty fast that he wasn't a danger. Of course they didn't have babies to protect like some of your animals. I'm sure that will make them more wary for awhile.


----------



## greybeard

I actually was able to mow 3/4 of my yard yesterday, tho I did leave some ruts in places with the lawn tractor. I also got my pickup stuck out by the shop but it wasn't too bad..got out without pulling with the tractor, but again, ruts in the yard. 

Beautiful weather again today, green grass everywhere. Feeding hi-mag mineral for now so I can turn the cows out on the new lush grass in the  next couple of week without worry over tetany. 
https://stockmansfeed.com/blog/20042/treatment-and-symptoms-of-grass-tetany-in-cattle

It can also affect sheep and goats. Watch out for it. Treatment must be given quickly once hypomagnesmic tetany has begun...you won't have much time. 
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/metab...ism/hypomagnesemic-tetany-in-cattle-and-sheep


----------



## Baymule

Good links Greybeard. I appreciate the posting of that information. I have some lush pasture right now, rye and clovers. I haven't put the sheep on it because with all the rain, I figured their hooves would cut it up. And I wanted to get a good stand before I let them mow it down. LOL The way I've done it in the past was to make sure they have a full belly of hay, then let them on the pasture for an hour or so, then back to the dry lot. Each day I lengthen their time. I always bring them back to the dry lot for the night. So far, so good.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Good links Greybeard. I appreciate the posting of that information. I have some lush pasture right now, rye and clovers. I haven't put the sheep on it because with all the rain, I figured their hooves would cut it up. And I wanted to get a good stand before I let them mow it down. LOL The way I've done it in the past was to make sure they have a full belly of hay, then let them on the pasture for an hour or so, then back to the dry lot. Each day I lengthen their time. I always bring them back to the dry lot for the night. So far, so good.


Feeding good hay and only letting them graze the new grass intermittently does help, but if the hay itself is low in Mag, there's still a risk. High quality mineral is cheap insurance--not the hard red blocks. An animal would have to lick on one for a couple hrs or more  to even get one ounce.
Soft blocks or loose minerals are the best. If nothing else, learn how to top dress feed with loose mins.  If you only have a few head, and have a neighbor or friend with livestock, share the cost and use of it. 
A soil sample can tell you a lot about what is in the growing forage, and there are plenty of places to look to tell you approx how many ounces of any mineral a particular species might need. Remember...milkers need more mag than meat producers or dry animals. 
For my mommas with a calf by, it would be 4-5 ounces per momma per day. 
I would not feed hi-mag year round unless a soil sample/forage sample indicated the need to.


Goats/sheep/equines, someone else would have to chime in.

(There are some tetany threads here from the past..some are in reference to non-cattle species)
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/spring-grazing.28398/#post-359381

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/goat-minerals.2489/#post-49855


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## Baymule

I give them a sheep mineral free choice. They also have Azomite, a rock dust from an ancient lava flow in Utah, free choice. And I keep out dolomite lime free choice. Today I looked on the bag and the dolomite is 10% mag. This is what I've done since buying the first sheep a few years ago. I started offering the Azomite after observing the lambs licking fresh dirt kicked up by gophers. That told me something was missing, so I offered them Azomite. They ate it like candy. I bought the Azomite to put in the garden, but more of it goes to the sheep. They pick and choose what they need.


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## greybeard

most often, the mag in any livestock mineral is dolomite. 
The trace mineral elements %s in azomite are quite low.
Magnesium for instance, is less than 1%


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## Baymule

They eat the heck out of all of it.


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## misfitmorgan

Sara's piglets are doing well. They are all sold except the ones we are keeping.

Over the weekend i got the lilac bush out front pruned, we got 90% of the grape vines pruned which might mean we get little to no grapes this year but it had to be done. The arbor needs to be rebuilt and there is no way we could do it with the way it was. Here is a before picture....i forgot to get an after 

Obviously the arbor has completely fallen down on the right side. We also found 3 newly rooted vines that we will be replanting in line where a few apparently didnt make it. The tree branches are from the apple trees...and our pruning.





We also got 9 of the 18 apple trees mostly pruned. Heavy pruning, our apple harvest this year will be affected by the heavy prune but again it had to be done. The 4 smaller apple trees produced apples but they only ever got crab apple size and were all wormy and covered with stuff that looked like algae. The small trees themselves were covered in liken. They definitely had an air flow/sunlight problem and simply over producing apples. Several of the large trees produced nothing at all this past year because of how badly they needed pruned. We still need to do the granny smith which is the oldest tree and in the worst shape, the honey crisp, the mac, the transparent, and the others are mystery trees because they had no apples. We also noticed the trees were planted to close together, so a lot were growing into each other. Some of them will be ok for production this year most will likely take a year or two to recover.

Our rhubarb bed is also already budding/crowning(??) I was raking out the bed and saw all the bright red new growth coming up. DH raked the asparagus patch out really well and burned the extra grass. This spring we will burn the patch itself to get rid of the turf growing in it.

We had a big event with Rosie over the weekend. DH wanted to see if she would run off again so we let her out with us while we were working in the orchard on both days. I'm happy to report she seems to have accepted us a her people and the farm as her new home. She wandered all over and disappeared for 15-20 minutes several times but always reappeared to see what we were doing....aka to make sure we were still alright and she wasnt in trouble. Every time she came back we made a big deal and rewarded her with lots of pets, so hopefully that will help her confidence. She did try to get in with the herd and found out that fence bites.


 



We are temporarily watching a pet mini pig from one of our litters. The owners can't take care of her for a few weeks because they need to re-do their backyard fence, so we have her for awhile.

We still have two big flower beds to take the turf out of, then we need to plant and mulch them. I have not even looked at the other beds because they still have ice/snow because they are in the shade.

We will hopefully be working on cleaning out the barn this week between other things now that the sheep are not in there.

Now the not so good news. Saturday night my mother's tumor ruptured. She went to the hospital across the state yesterday, they got the bleeding stopped and sent her home. She is scheduled for a mastectomy tomorrow. I do not know if she will accept any cancer treatments, obviously the stuff she was trying to use to treat it is not working. If she does not accept treatments, she probly won't be around to much longer as surgery usually enables cancer to spread quickly. We shall see what she decides.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Also we are pretty sure Pilgrim died from old age. He was a show llama before DH ever got him which was before DH found him at a hoarders. DH got him with his mother, brother and sister, pilgrim was the oldest kid. So given the time DH had him with the ex-wife and how long we had him and how long would be required for gestation and weaning each kid, the youngest we can estimate his age at is 12yrs old. Pilgrim's mother died from old age, his brother i guess was kind of mentally deficient and died oddly but i dont remember how DH said he died, and his sister died from a heart attack caused by VSD.


----------



## Baymule

I couldn't like that post.....sounds like a beautiful, productive day. Good time spent with Rosie too. But I couldn't like it because of the bad news. I truly hope for the best for your mother.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sounds like y'all got a good jump on getting things under control trimming and pruning. Good to see Rosie agreeable with the setup and checking her new territory out. Sorry to hear about your Mom and hope it turns out well for her and you......


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## Latestarter

Like Bay, I couldn't like the first post despite all the good stuff you accomplished. So sorry about your mom. She's going to do what she's going to do. I hope she isn't suffering too much pain wise. I know you're suffering pain as well, but emotional.   Glad to hear that Pilgrim was probably old age vice something else.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

x2 to what the others said. Proud of Rosie and her progress. Glad you are getting the farm in shape for it to be productive in the future. Sorry about your mom.


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## Bruce

I "liked" the first post before I got to the part about your mother  But I'll leave the "like" since it is mostly good news and progress. Good girl Rosie


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## misfitmorgan

Come on now don't be like that. We had a good weekend, we got a lot done, it was beautiful sunny weather. Something bad is happening for my mother yes, but thats why i put it at the end. I want you guys to know what is going on but i dont want to spoil my journal with negative stuff all the time.

I'm hopeful things will turn out ok for my mom, she has some hard stuff to go thru and so do we but we will do what needs done and enjoy our time until then. Two things plants and livestock have in common, neither wait for a hurting heart. As far as amount of pain she is in, she has been in pain for months, she has been lying to herself that her tumor was getting better without kemo or any normal cancer treatments. She can no longer think that is the case and the thing she was worried about in the first place which was the mastectomy and being sick is happening anyway. We shall see what happens but for now i'm going to focus on the excellent weekend we had outside.

As always i thank you guys for your well wishes and your support


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## Bruce

Perhaps she will decide getting conventional treatment, now that the "unconventional" has proven not to work for her, can't be worse than what is happening now and could improve her life. If not, well that is her decision, hard as it is for you to think about.


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## Baymule

I love Rosie. She is so pretty and looks like she is settling in and knowing that you and your husband are "her" family. Maybe she and the sheep and goats will be friends.....


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## misfitmorgan

It's very possible, she obviously wants to be with them. I'm more worried about her getting beat up then i am worried about the sheep and goats getting hurt. Rosie really seems she wants to be close to the babies but the moms don't want her near them.

Not much to report here, animals are doing well. We went to my moms last night and hung out, got home around 10:30 and went to bed. I'm excited for spring to get here finally, they are forecasting 6 inches of snow over the next 2 days, i hope they are wrong....the ground is thawed i dont want any snow.


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## misfitmorgan

I did forget to mention, we a big a apple branch feel into the goat/sheep pen while we were pruning and the goats and sheep were on it. Apparently they love apple bark, it is nearly bare now. So i think i take out the eaten branches out and put some fresh ones....it keeps them busy.


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## Mike CHS

Our sheep love apple trimmings and they are our favorite with poultry on the BBQ grill.


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## Baymule

Our Paris had never even seen a sheep and  tackled them. It took awhile. Then when she decided she wanted to be friends with them, they didn't like her. When the ewes butted her, she was enraged and attacked. This is not the way to make friends with sheep! They have finally declared a truce of some sort. Paris gives the ewes with new lambs some room and the ewes quit charging her like a freight train. When they butt Trip, he just gives them a silly grin and ignores them. 

I'll bet Rosie is nowhere near the psychotic mess that Paris is, and given time and patience, Rosie will make a fine sheep and goat guard. She has a sweet and loving face. Her personality shines through any mistrust issues she might have. She is in the best home she could possibly have.


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## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> Our sheep love apple trimmings and they are our favorite with poultry on the BBQ grill.



We do plan on saving anything sizable/reasonable so we can use it to smoke later....i love me some applewood smoked pork. 

I have never actually seen the shop sheep make contact with Rosie. They do a mock lunge "gonna ram you" thing and she backs up. She was with sheep at her old home...i'm more worried about the goats. The momma goats can be pretty brutal if they think their baby is in danger. I am probly worrying for nothing because if we did put Rosie in with them and she wanted out, i have no doubt she could easily clear the 36" tall fence. Being able to clear the fence presents a who new challenge though. Rosie has not yet met the house dogs.


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## Bruce

Yep, the sheep, goats and Rosie will all figure things out. Different animals of course (talking cats now) but Christofur finally figured out that the other cats did NOT want to play with him. He will drop into a submissive lying position if he tries to play and they charge him. They will then walk, cautiously, away. I'm sure Rosie will figure out how far to stay back when the goats start looking at her aggressively. Hopefully this won't involve any pain.


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## misfitmorgan

i know, i would just feel bad if anything serious happened.


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## Bruce

I know that and I know you wouldn't just toss Rosie in and say "work it out"  Supervised integration until they all understand each other.


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## Baymule

Nothing bad will happen because you are a responsible Dog Mommy and your husband knows Great Pyrenees and together you both will help her with any hurdles that comes her way.


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## misfitmorgan

My mother's surgery went well. The tumor and two lymph nodes were removed. She does have a pretty bug incision, they also had to remove some muscle but she is in good spirits and at home. With the tumor gone she just has a few spots of cancer in her lungs as far as we know and will not be taking kemo or radiation treatment. The spots may or may not go away on their own from her hormone treatments that she is taking. She has not had any testing done since August of last year so the lung spots may be gone.

Nothing new at the farm...but we did get something like a foot of snow. DH also went off the road and rolled the truck on Tuesday. He is fine though sore and the truck has a lot of cosmetic damage but luckily he was only going 35-40mph so nothing to horrible.


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## CntryBoy777

Good news on the mom front, but sounds pretty tough for DH, hope he isn't too stove up for too long....and the damage to the truck doesn't set ya back too much.


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## Hens and Roos

Glad to hear your DH is okay and that your mom's surgery went well.


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## Bruce

Hens and Roos said:


> Glad to hear your DH is okay and that your mom's surgery went well.


x2


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## Baymule

It’s good to hear that your moms surgery went ok. Hopefully she can beat this. 

That sucks about your husband rolling the truck. At least he wasn’t hurt. Trucks can be replaced. It probably doesn’t help his feelings any, men do love their trucks! Heck, I love our truck! LOL


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## misfitmorgan

The truck is still plenty driveable, just cosmetically and cab sealing will be a problem. I told him dont plan on driving in the rain. I will see if i can get a picture when i get home, depends how much snow is on it. DH is mad at himself for rolling it....at 35-40mph  He wasnt hurt seriously, sore ribs, sore thumb, sore head....nothing broken on him or even sprained that we know of.


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## Latestarter

Glad to hear DH is none the worse for wear from the truck roll. When I went offroading, it started at ~60 MPH on black ice and I was VERY lucky that it didn't roll. I hit the ditch at damn near a 90° angle to the road edge. There was enough ice/snow that I was able to straighten it out as I went over the edge. Cosmetics can be fixed. Glad to hear you'r mom is in good spirits. Hope it all works out.


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## farmerjan

Ditto on hoping things will get better for your mom after the surgery.
Believe me, there is no way to say sorry enough about the truck even if it wasn't damaged too bad.  Just one more inconvienence but glad that he wasn't hurt bad just some banged up. 

I saw where there was a major snowfall headed to the north and northeast....we only have gotten a few flurries but now say that we might get some significant snowfall this coming Sunday into Monday?????  It's turned cold here, compared to 2 weeks ago.  20's to 40's with clouds and windy.  I kept trying to tell people that we weren't done with winter as much as I was PRAYING I was wrong.... .  Guess we will see what happens this weekend.  I intend to haul a another load of 5 gal buckets of feed to the barn to have some extra on hand from the bulk feed bin.  And guess I will have to go buy another  load of shavings for the calves in the barn.....


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## misfitmorgan

The truck will be ok with time and DH will hopefully get over his feelings.

Meanwhile.....so much snow 

We have 3 foot tall drifts in our back yard, i believe this is the most snow we have had all winter.


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## Wehner Homestead

I’d almost prefer drifts to 50s one day, snowing and below freezing the next. The memes on fb for IN weather are cracking me up but 100% accurate too. We’ve even had thunder snow and tornado warnings in Jan!


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## misfitmorgan

The weather won't make up it's mind here either. 

I wish it would just stay spring already and no more white stuff.

Nothing new really. All Livestock is doing well. I have strep throat..yay me 

I've figured out the math and to fence off our place the way we want....for fencing it is going to cost over 7k...and i havnt figured in a couple fencers and hot wire/clips yet. That will give us 4 - approx 1acre pastures, a perimeter fence, approx 1/2 acre for ducks/geese, 1.5 acres for the backyard, orchard, garden, etc.



 
Plus a lane to load/unload and a place to corral sheep to shear.....and never having to reverse with a trailer.


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## Wehner Homestead

Very well thought out! Just a matter of funds and resources now.  you will have access to both to accomplish this project in the near future.


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## Latestarter

Kinda surprised that you didn't extend the fences a little in pasture #3 & #4 so that a small area of the pond was included inside the fence line. Perhaps that way you could avoid having to pipe/haul water to those pastures.  Looks great though!


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## misfitmorgan

Wehner Homestead said:


> Very well thought out! Just a matter of funds and resources now.  you will have access to both to accomplish this project in the near future.



Thank you! 
Just time and money....I'm sure i will have loads of that ...eventually...like at 80 perhaps.



Latestarter said:


> Kinda surprised that you didn't extend the fences a little in pasture #3 & #4 so that a small area of the pond was included inside the fence line. Perhaps that way you could avoid having to pipe/haul water to those pastures.  Looks great though!



It's illegal to water livestock from surface or moving water here. The  big pond is actually a stream/pond type of thing that dries up in the summer with some wetland type area around it that the livestock would destroy.


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## misfitmorgan

Oh course we also dont want livestock in the shooting gallery...that would be bad lmao


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## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> It's illegal to water livestock from surface or moving water here. The big pond is actually a stream/pond type of thing that dries up in the summer with some wetland type area around it that the livestock would destroy.



I've seen this discussed elsewhere. It's not completely and flat out illegal. Evidently, there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of farm ponds in Michigan being used directly by and for livestock watering.  You just have to meet certain standards or criteria, which is pretty much the case in many states.


----------



## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> I've seen this discussed elsewhere. It's not completely and flat out illegal. Evidently, there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of farm ponds in Michigan being used directly by and for livestock watering.  You just have to meet certain standards or criteria, which is pretty much the case in many states.



I know part of the criteria is it can not be moving/flowing surface water, there must be a liner, there is testing thats required every so often, etc...basically it would not be a cheap way to water livestock for us. There is also the issue of not being able/allowed to re-work wetland type areas without special permits. The back of the property is wet which is why we do not plan on using it for livestock.


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## misfitmorgan

It is possible we could siphon water from the ponds or moving water thru a one way value into a stock tank or something and allow the livestock to use it but the expense for the trade off wouldnt really be worth it between the pumps and filters that would be needed plus maintenance and we still couldnt use any of it in the winter.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Oh course we also dont want livestock in the shooting gallery...that would be bad lmao


Isn't that called a hunting preserve?


----------



## greybeard

I'm glad Texas doesn't do that. I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say there's probably 20,000 head of livestock grazing the banks of the little San Jacinto River alone (same river that makes my East property boundary), and that river is impounded 26 miles downstream to form Lake Houston..City of Houston's drinking water supply. Add in the 15,000 sq mile watershed of the Trinity River, which is also impounded by Lake Livingston as a secondary source of drinking water for the Greater Houston area, and it's pretty accurate to say over 1/2 the 11,000,000 cows in Texas are either drinking from it, peeing in it, or poohing in it. I have never seen a single farm or ranch in Texas that doesn't have at least one stock pond and the overflow from all of them drains into one or another of the rivers or their tributaries. 
If we want to dig a stock pond here, all we need is something to dig with.


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## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> I'm glad Texas doesn't do that. I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say there's probably 20,000 head of livestock grazing the banks of the little San Jacinto River alone (same river that makes my East property boundary), and that river is impounded 26 miles downstream to form Lake Houston..City of Houston's drinking water supply. Add in the 15,000 sq mile watershed of the Trinity River, which is also impounded by Lake Livingston as a secondary source of drinking water for the Greater Houston area, and it's pretty accurate to say over 1/2 the 11,000,000 cows in Texas are either drinking from it, peeing in it, or poohing in it. I have never seen a single farm or ranch in Texas that doesn't have at least one stock pond and the overflow from all of them drains into one or another of the rivers or their tributaries.
> If we want to dig a stock pond here, all we need is something to dig with.



I'm just going to count my blessings that I dont have to drink water from Houston. We are not allowed to do that here, DEQ would have your A** and you would be reported so fast your head would spin. Keeping the Great Lakes "clean and clear" is a huge part of living in michigan and everyone pretty much thinks it is part of their responsibility. We want to keep our wildlife, our hunting, our tourism, our lakes, etc which means paying attention to what goes directly into the lakes, woods, wetlands, etc.


----------



## Baymule

I like the way you have your fence laid out. Ours just kinda went up with no master plan, but it all works. We spent over $10K fencing 8 acres into 4 pastures, a garden and back yard.


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## Bruce

They are making huge efforts to keep manure out of the streams, rivers and lakes here as well. Nasty algae blooms from all the nitrogen.


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## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> I'm just going to count my blessings that I dont have to drink water from Houston. We are not allowed to do that here, DEQ would have your A** and you would be reported so fast your head would spin.


"I've seen the time I've drank out of a filthy hoofprint - and was glad to get it."


Any chance ya'll could come down here and gather up all the immigrants from your region (Mi, Ohio, Ill, Ind) and please take 'em back home? I suspect Florida would gladly let you have 'em back from there as well. You might actually gain back the congressional seats (and electoral votes) your state has been losing after every census. Michigan had 19 representatives in the House in 1970. It lost one after the 1980 census, two after 1990, one after the 2000 census, and another after 2010. Going to lose at least one more in 2020's census too.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...-states-could-change-with-2020-census?slide=7
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...states-could-change-with-2020-census?slide=16

From the Mackinac Center research on population shifts:
"People move to Texas from all over. When we shift the focus to specific pairs of states, Florida remains the top migration choice for outbound Michigan residents. According to Internal Revenue Service data, a net total of approximately 68,000 Michiganders moved to the Sunshine State between 2000 and the end of 2008. Texas ranks second for outbound Wolverines. From 2007 to 2008, 12,748 of our fellow residents moved there, while 5,272 Texans came to Michigan, for a net outflow to the Lone Star State of 7,746.

The IRS data can actually be broken down by county. The gross outflow from Michigan's three biggest counties to Texas appears to have increased dramatically. For example, the number of people moving from Macomb County to Texas increased from approximately 200 between 2003 and 2004 to 748 between 2007 and 2008, a 274 percent difference. Their most frequent destination was the Dallas/Fort Worth area. For people from Oakland and Wayne Counties, the Texas county of Harris, which includes Houston, was the most popular."
https://www.mackinac.org/V2010-15


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## misfitmorgan

Still happy i dont have to drink houston water. Yes lots of people move from michigan to southern states, i didnt say there was anything wrong with that. I didnt say there was anything wrong with texas or flordia either. I myself hope to move out of michigan, until then i have to abide by the things we are allowed to do here.


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## Wehner Homestead

Haven’t seen you around in awhile. I hope things are going well.


----------



## Bruce

I'm thinking the same thing!!


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## Latestarter

X2, I mentioned that she's been missing in a post asking for hog help. Hope all is well with them.


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## Bruce

She last posted on @Mike CHS's journal on the 3rd but last activity was Tuesday at 8:47 AM so we know she is still alive  Just busy I guess.


----------



## Farmer Connie




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## Wehner Homestead

Crossed my mind a few times lately. Wanted to check in. Hope all is well!


----------



## Latestarter

It's more and more appearing that we've "lost" another for whatever reason... Haven't seen hide nor hair of @AClark in quite a spell either.   I can't call up her profile as I'm "blocked"/not allowed access, so can't see when she was last on or send her a PM to try to catch her attention... I just hope it wasn't something bad, that has prevented them from stopping in.


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## TAH

She was last seen 4/17/18


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## Bruce

And @AClark's last post was 4/20 

Sure would love to see how things are going for @misfitmorgan with the new property.


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## misfitmorgan

I'm still alive.


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## CntryBoy777

I was just thinking about ya the other day and wondering how ya was doing?.....also, hoped everything was doing/going well for y"all.....even added a prayer to those already said for ya....sure hope ya return and join in again....I sure miss ya!!.......


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## Wehner Homestead

Was just thinking about you too (like seriously a day or two ago!!!) Welcome back!!!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Just got busy with life. 

Sweet lover girl Rosie died, really miserable experience there, we miss her sooo much. Her and my 15yr old dog girlie girl whom i miss so much i can't put into words got poisoned/toxic/bit? Vet couldnt tell us, charged me $150 to say they couldnt tell us. Going out to livestock is sad, every time because no giant white puffball appears from no where to greet you and see what your doing. Vets best advice for us was to not let our dogs outside....that's realistic. Stella was re-homed, Boss went back to my sister-in-law. So we are down to Issac, Kora and Lucas for dogs. We lost those two the end of July.

So updates:

Phoebe's boy died, he was layed on or rolled on, not sure which. This was when he was little still, i think i posted it dont recall. 

A critter took off with cassiopia's Boy when he was less then 2 months old. 

The most confounding thing is, Ivy was in the shop with her twins, doors all shut....they disappeared. Both twins they were there for evening chores then gone the next morning. We still have no clue what happened to them.

2 of 2 got beat the poop out of and died from her injuries a month ago, no clue who did it, no one was talking.

Cassiopia never recovered from her kid being taken, she never put on weight turned to skin and bone and died. We separated her with a thin sheep(294) and gave them 24/7 hay, grain, loose minerals. I gave them vitmain B, redcell, and a weight gainer/meal replacement. The sheep put on weight and did fine, cassiopia never improved. Her eye lids were completely white and stayed that way, no matter what. Wormed with all three classes as directed, no improvement.

We got a batch of 15 chicks, they did great until we lost rosie now we only have 6 of those left. We got a second batch of chickens, started with 13...11 left. Predators are moving in now that we have no guard.

Our mule duck sat a nest and hatched out 15 ducklings. Lost 3 in a waterer(kid put it in, didnt know better), Geese attacked them when the door to the two story blew open so lost 2 more. We moved them into a big pen in the shop instead so the geese couldnt get them......but the pigs could  We put up chicken wire and have 6 left, poor mule duck.

We sold moon and the wether went with him.

Oreo - polypays baby is doing good and almost as big as her mom.
308 did end up having a lamb, a single ram in mid june.
We held back 4 gilts from our hereford/duroc litter, growing them slow to be breeders.
Spot had a litter of piglets 8/4, 7 piglets, she laid on one on the 7th so 6 piglets left.

We traded hay for a 98% Boer Buck a few weeks ago, he is 1.5yrs old and a sweetheart. Ivy, Phoebe and Fate are all looking really good.
This is Big Boy



 


We now do "foster" care and have a foster kid, no licensing yet as the documents we need to order cost money and we haven't been able to get them yet. We have had her since the beginning of May.

We put in a big garden and it is doing wonderfully. So we have had a farm stand for almost a month.

Sara is re-bred.  

Found out one of my "apple" trees is a rainer cherry tree. Other identified apple trees are Honeycrisp, Mac, Gravenstein, and Pink Lady. Transparent and Granny Smith set zero apples this year.

We got a Dozer to clean land for fencing but as luck would have it, we have neither the money to fix the dozer or to put up fence. Every time there is a light at the end of the tunnel, we get smacked by a freight train. Between animals having problems and vehicles breaking, we have been pretty much broke for over a month.

I think that's it.


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry MM... hated to "like" the post but sure am glad to have you back. You've been thought about often. Sorry for all the losses and associated misery that comes with. Hope that light grows brighter and you can get out of that tunnel here shortly.


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## misfitmorgan

Also my mother had a masectomy, they declared her cancer free as long as her noduals were good. About a month ago she went to the doctor for what she thought was pnemonia. Lung cancer....still refusing treatment.

Lots of ups and downs. I'm really depressed and stressed today, probly not the best day to write all this but at least you know whats been going on.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Sorry MM... hated to "like" the post but sure am glad to have you back. You've been thought about often. Sorry for all the losses and associated misery that comes with. Hope that light grows brighter and you can get out of that tunnel here shortly.



Thanks LS, i have mised you guys. I just havn't felt like putting all the bad into words. The loss of Rosie and girlie girl were esp hard and still bother me a lot. I don't think we will ever have another LGD. I love the breed and i loved Rosie but here a pyr is $1200-1400 as a pup...thats never gonna happen. Even if i had the money, it wouldn't happen. As bad as we need a guard and i miss that big white puff..i would never pay that much for a dog.

Maybe I will feel more cheery on Monday. Getting added stress because winter is coming to soon.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> I was just thinking about ya the other day and wondering how ya was doing?.....also, hoped everything was doing/going well for y"all.....even added a prayer to those already said for ya....sure hope ya return and join in again....I sure miss ya!!.......



Thank you for the prayers.



Wehner Homestead said:


> Was just thinking about you too (like seriously a day or two ago!!!) Welcome back!!!



Thank you


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure hate to hear about the losses and set-backs....
But, it is sure good to hear from ya!!....that's a shame about Rosie we lost Cheetos in similar fashion....we think he got bit by a copperhead..........Big Boy is a really nice looking buck.....hope ya can get another guardian  before too long, it sure sounds like ya are needing one.....


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## Bruce

I can only echo the others. Was hoping things would go swimmingly once you got to the new place and out from under the old landlords.   Can't say anything helpful about the dog losses  Hopefully things will start looking up financially so you can get the fence in to keep the predators out.


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Sure hate to hear about the losses and set-backs....
> But, it is sure good to hear from ya!!....that's a shame about Rosie we lost Cheetos in similar fashion....we think he got bit by a copperhead..........Big Boy is a really nice looking buck.....hope ya can get another guardian  before too long, it sure sounds like ya are needing one.....



Sorry to hear about Cheeto.

The not knowing is a really sucky part. We killed a rattler about 3 weeks before this happened on our place by our compost so i know they are here. 

Big Boy is a gorgeous buck and only 1.5yrs old so more growing still. He has no horns which i love, leads like a dream and has manners. He is 98% Boer and 2% Kiko....roughly, Great Grandpa was kiko. I'm hoping he is going to make us some really sturdy kids. Only Phoebe and Ivy will be bred this fall, Fate is on the small side still for breeding. 

I don't think we will get another LGD unless maybe a rescue, we could never afford $1200-1400 for a puppy. Atm a $100 puppy would be stretching it. 



Bruce said:


> I can only echo the others. Was hoping things would go swimmingly once you got to the new place and out from under the old landlords.   Can't say anything helpful about the dog losses  Hopefully things will start looking up financially so you can get the fence in to keep the predators out.



Hopefully. The farmstand has been in operation for about a 3 weeks and we have made about $140, thats all fencing money. We also have some piglets to sell to that will also go to fencing and a a ram lamb to sell...again fencing. 

DH has picked up some side work to fix a tractor and a guys truck so that will pay a few hundred and again fencing. Just need time but winter is a comming you know lol.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

As you catch up you’ll realize that summer was hard on lots of us. There have been deaths and injuries. I won’t even try to list them as there are too many to try. 

I’m glad to know that you are okay, even if things are rough. Try to keep your head above water. I took a break but I’m back. My support system here has helped me through so much! 

I do know of a breeder in Columbus, IN that sells Pyr pups for $350. There’s also an Anatolian breeder that sells them for $300. Our area is saturated with breeders. If you are coming down this way, let me know and we will see if we can come up with something for you.


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## misfitmorgan

Wehner Homestead said:


> As you catch up you’ll realize that summer was hard on lots of us. There have been deaths and injuries. I won’t even try to list them as there are too many to try.
> 
> I’m glad to know that you are okay, even if things are rough. Try to keep your head above water. I took a break but I’m back. My support system here has helped me through so much!
> 
> I do know of a breeder in Columbus, IN that sells Pyr pups for $350. There’s also an Anatolian breeder that sells them for $300. Our area is saturated with breeders. If you are coming down this way, let me know and we will see if we can come up with something for you.



I have noticed i missed a lot. I'm glad you're back as well. $300-350 is way better, and I will definitely take that offer when things are less...well just less here. Catching up on journals for now.


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## Latestarter

I am at heart a giver... altruistic... So many folks I have read on here that I wish I could help. Really good folks who are just short of being able to do what they need to do to get out of their tunnel. We all have tunnels we're trying to get out of. Babsbag out in CA is about to deliver a litter of LGDs and if I could afford it, I'd happily try to purchase one from her (if she'd allow of course) to be delivered to you. Or, Goatgurl up in AR also recently had a litter of beautiful Marema based LGD pups... Another alternative if she hasn't already sold them all (and would allow it). I really wish I could help... As it stands, the best I can do is what others have offered... a digital shoulder to spill font on when needed. We are here to offer support and condolences to any/all who need them.


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## Baymule

As much as I am glad to see you here again, I am so sorry for all the tribulations that you have been going through. It seems like the hits keep coming. I really hope that things smooth out for you. Fencing is expensive and not only does it take time to gather the money necessary, it then takes time to put it up and build the fence. We have been here for 3 years and are still building the infrastructure that we want and need.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> I am at heart a giver... altruistic... So many folks I have read on here that I wish I could help. Really good folks who are just short of being able to do what they need to do to get out of their tunnel. We all have tunnels we're trying to get out of. Babsbag out in CA is about to deliver a litter of LGDs and if I could afford it, I'd happily try to purchase one from her (if she'd allow of course) to be delivered to you. Or, Goatgurl up in AR also recently had a litter of beautiful Marema based LGD pups... Another alternative if she hasn't already sold them all (and would allow it). I really wish I could help... As it stands, the best I can do is what others have offered... a digital shoulder to spill font on when needed. We are here to offer support and condolences to any/all who need them.



Really just having friends here I can share my troubles, frustrations, joys, and achievements with is really plenty. You guys all do a great job of making it seem like everything will be ok, you often highlight the positive even when bad things happen. It really does help and I thank all of you guys for still being here for me.....even after my time off

As far as the LGD goes it really is best for us and the future guardian if we wait until we have our fencing up. Rosie did go to the neighbors(huge field no houses) and across the road(few miles of woods) but she was road smart. Any future LGD may not be and I would feel horrible if they got hit by a car, so waiting is the best.



Baymule said:


> As much as I am glad to see you here again, I am so sorry for all the tribulations that you have been going through. It seems like the hits keep coming. I really hope that things smooth out for you. Fencing is expensive and not only does it take time to gather the money necessary, it then takes time to put it up and build the fence. We have been here for 3 years and are still building the infrastructure that we want and need.



The last few years just seem like one thing after another. At least this year does have good mixed in.
Doe Kid - Fate, she will breed in fall 2019
Ewe Lamb - Oreo, she will be bred early winter
New Buck - Big Boy, he will make our kids more resilient and parasite resistant
Excellent Garden - allowed us to have a farm stand which continues to make us money for fencing
Apple Trees are producing so well this year that the past few storms have snapped off branches - need to prune better next year. We have plenty for applesauce, apple butter, apple cider, apple pie filling, to sell, and for livestock.
And the big one
We now have a human kid for the time being, which we absolutely love.

Fencing is costly and a pain to put up but once it is up if done right we shouldn't have to replace it....ever lol. So far our fencing goals look to be a 5yr plan


----------



## Bruce

One post at a time and it gets done!


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> One post at a time and it gets done!



Very true!


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## misfitmorgan

We have made a deal to buy two 75% boer/25% nubian doe kids. These kids are actually our friends goats babies and is Phoebe's full siblings. Phoebe is very parasite resistant and always gives us twins, she is a excellent momma too.

We currently have only Phoebe, Ivy, Big Boy, and Fate...so the new kids will be nice and give us 33% more goats lol. Luckily we are getting them extremely cheap and might actually swap hay for them.


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## Baymule

That sounds like a good deal! I love barter. You'll have to post pics when you get them home.


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## Wehner Homestead

Yay! Can’t wait to see pics!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That sounds like a good deal! I love barter. You'll have to post pics when you get them home.



I will post pics...probly going to be a week or two yet before they come home.



Wehner Homestead said:


> Yay! Can’t wait to see pics!



Everyone loves pics...maybe I can get some to hold you all over


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## misfitmorgan

The big gear up for fall is here...aka get your s**t done before the snow hits.

We finally got a gate build for the big girls pen....they seem to like it because its slatted so they can look thru it, old was solid plywood sheet.

We built a small duck house for the momma duck and her ducklings(3 now) with a covered run. The duck house is built kinda like @CntryBoy777  's the duck house will be on the bottom and chicken coop on the top. The duck run goes to the south and the chicken run will go east then south.

DH sold all of our old round bales from last year's hay so we have some fence money for pasture 1. Shall see how far we can stretch it.If memory serves (big if) Pasture 1 requires 3 rolls of fence and a bazillion t-posts and half a bazillion wood pots....plus electric wire, insulators.....etc 

I also need to can tomatoes, make sauerkraut, pickled beets, jalapeno jelly and apple pie filling. Then DH wants to make apple cider. 

Need to build another pen in the shop so we can pull off oreo, fate, and the ram lamb as breeding season is here.

Need to figure out a way to separate the sheep and goats until the boys do their jobs. I mean I dont think the rams would beat up big boy or vice versa but i don't really want to find out.

Back burner items are......scrap metal pile needs to go, we need to finish cleaning out the 2 story, and hoses need fixed, yard/farm needs picked up, burn pile needs burned, pool needs winterized and pool stuff put away.


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## CntryBoy777

It certainly sounds like a really busy time there, especially with cold not too far ahead....I think you will like the ease of the duck pen and something that will further help ya is to remove any pellets from them at night....this will allow ya to not have to deal with frozen water in the mornings, just pour fresh water for them each morning when ya give them the pellets. I'm anxious to see them and also the off-spring of Big Boy....he is really nice looking!!......


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> It certainly sounds like a really busy time there, especially with cold not too far ahead....I think you will like the ease of the duck pen and something that will further help ya is to remove any pellets from them at night....this will allow ya to not have to deal with frozen water in the mornings, just pour fresh water for them each morning when ya give them the pellets. I'm anxious to see them and also the off-spring of Big Boy....he is really nice looking!!......



I already like the idea and I havnt even put the coop part on top! Even if i pour water in during the morning it will be frozen within an hour or two in winter. We use bowls in winter so we can knock the ice out to re-fill them. We looked at heated bowls...so not cheap lol.

Big Boy makes beautiful babies I saw his 12 kids he made last fall as a 1yr old. Healthy, stocky and energetic kids. I'm very excited to see what him and Phoebe make! They are both full color boer and there is a possibility big boy has some spot genes. If not our next buck will be Nubian....spotted or dappled so i can get my spots 

We are trading the gilts we held back for breeding to our friend, he is going to give us back one piglet from each of their first litters. The benefit is his boar is outside blood....when he gets a boar lol. That will give us room to move spot pig's piglets out of her pen when they need to be weaned. Then Spot can go back in with the big girls and Sarah can go in the "farrow" pen as she is bred again.

We saw Big Boy on Ivy so atm it looks like possible kids Mid-febuary from Ivy.


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## goatgurl

reading all that you have done and still have to do makes me tired.  i'm so tickled that things are working out so well on your place.   and we're still waiting on baby pictures ya know.


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## misfitmorgan

goatgurl said:


> reading all that you have done and still have to do makes me tired.  i'm so tickled that things are working out so well on your place.   and we're still waiting on baby pictures ya know.



It makes me tired too....before i even do it 

I know you all want pictures between work, rain and surprises I havnt had time but I will get them.


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## Latestarter

I love pics MFM, but to be honest? I'd much prefer your presence here, even without them. It's good to see you back.


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## Bruce

What @Latestarter said!  Sometimes I think he reads my mind before I can even have the thought (since he posted 4 hours before I read your 6:44 EDT post.)


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## Baymule

We've been here 3 1/2 years. It takes awhile to get things done. You will get it all done the way you want it, a little at a time. Every fence post set is a victory. Every nail, screw or fence staple is a victory. No matter how big or small the amount that you got done, each one is more than you had done before you got started that day.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> I love pics MFM, but to be honest? I'd much prefer your presence here, even without them. It's good to see you back.



Thank you



Baymule said:


> We've been here 3 1/2 years. It takes awhile to get things done. You will get it all done the way you want it, a little at a time. Every fence post set is a victory. Every nail, screw or fence staple is a victory. No matter how big or small the amount that you got done, each one is more than you had done before you got started that day.



We do celebrate the small things and things we get done like the gate for the pig stall. We are extremely proud of the gate lol. I am also proud of the duck house...i need to finish the run for them though so i can move them.

I have not even started canning. Tuesday i had to go supervise a visit, which i wasnt suppose to need too and then yesterday there was an event i had to take the kid to which wasnt planned and it was an hour drive there and back after work. So my last two days have went,,,home at 4pm, chores, let out/feed dogs/let out.....tie out other persons dogs who we are watching for 2 weeks but can't be with our dogs/feed.....leave at 5pm.....tuesday was home at 9pm, wednesday was home at 8pm  So hopefully i can get that going today before the produce is gone. Also need to restock the farm stand.


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## misfitmorgan

Sorry all I've been out of town on a business trip. I finally got to see DC and part of virginia...that was awesome.

Nothing much new, i did get the stand restocked before i left.


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## Bruce

No need to apologize! We are just glad you've found time to hang out with us again.


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## misfitmorgan

I've been off reading journals 

Not a lot new here. 

I got my travel pay so this weekend we are putting up some fencing!! It's not the permanent fence we want but it will be more secure then the net for winter. We are getting 1 roll of field fence and some more t-posts and putting the fence up with that plus electric wire clips to keep them off the fence. We may try to do the corner bracing with all t-posts as it worked in our chicken run at the old farm but that was not under much tension. Failing that idea we will sadly and regrettably put in a few wood posts for the corners. We also have making a gate on the agenda...a gate can you imagine such a thing? 

We have never had a gate into our pastures from the outside..ever. We always had to step over(electric net) or go thru the barn. DH might try to cheap out and use a short peice of cattle panel as the gate...i hope not.

In other news our two new little does are finally coming home tomorrow along with their buckling brother who is getting wethered to be Big Boys buddy when it isnt breeding season....then eaten later DH says

I still have to finish the duck house, it has been raining here almost constantly except one nice day that was in the high 70s but i had to do kid stuff that day. Was raining again this am on my way to work, no rain since i got here but it is still mostly overcast and grey. Today the high is 47F and realfeel is 31F


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## Latestarter

Gates are "magical" things! Once you have some, you'll never go back!   Glad you're finally able to get started on some fencing. Might want to really consider the wood posts as you're talking a much larger fence area than a chicken run this time around. You'd hate to have to do it over and top that off with the fence then being too short to wrap & tie off around the wood posts if/when you replace the T-post corners.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Gates are "magical" things! Once you have some, you'll never go back!   Glad you're finally able to get started on some fencing. Might want to really consider the wood posts as you're talking a much larger fence area than a chicken run this time around. You'd hate to have to do it over and top that off with the fence then being too short to wrap & tie off around the wood posts if/when you replace the T-post corners.



it is not ment to be a permanent fence...it is literally our back yard. It is just where we have been keeping them under we can get some of the other 10 acres cleaned. Dozer needs more work/money then was thought. It runs but has no hp to push anything. So after land gets cleared new permanent fence will be put up and the temp fence will be taken down and re-fenced on the cleared land. Hence why i am not wanting to put in wood posts


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## CntryBoy777

Just have to get things done as ya can and are able to....you and DH have proven to be very capable people and now on your own property without the BS of those idiots ya left behind, I'm sure that y'all will get it done when ya can...I know the winter weather isn't kind up that way, but if ya need post holes....best to dig them before the ground freezes....


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Just have to get things done as ya can and are able to....you and DH have proven to be very capable people and now on your own property without the BS of those idiots ya left behind, I'm sure that y'all will get it done when ya can...I know the winter weather isn't kind up that way, but if ya need post holes....best to dig them before the ground freezes....



Thankfully the ground up here won't freeze for at least another month and we are mostly sand at our place so winter digging isnt bad. It now says it is suppose to rain tomorrow morning, someone must have heard my plans and reported me.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I got my travel pay so this weekend we are putting up some fencing!!


Yippee!! Money always seems to come in handy.



misfitmorgan said:


> DH might try to cheap out and use a short peice of cattle panel as the gate...


Not the worst plan around. You don't want a heavy gate since you aren't putting in wood gate posts.


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## Baymule

The best part about fencing is when it is done and you can use the fenced area!


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## Bruce

The best part sure isn't digging those post holes and hitting rocks!


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## misfitmorgan

luckily no rocks, we did use wood posts on the corners but only a single post.....yes i know that's incorrect, we also didnt wrap posts. This fence needs to work for winter and part of spring then it is getting taken down. The fence is "done"....i have no gate  DH was all, i dont want to make a weak point, well yes but no gate is ridiculous. He is putting it in  the back of their shed/house, so again no direct gate into the pasture. I knew he wouldn't let me have that.

i will see about getting pictures but you know my record.


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## Bruce

You can always toss in a couple of extra T posts and a gate of your own. Don't use it in his presence, maybe he won't notice it


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## misfitmorgan

I wish

I would have to cut the role of fencing and thats not happening. The gate was ment to go on the end of the roll by the shed but now it is all stretched and stuff so i can't just stick a gate in without him noticing.


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## Bruce

Rats. Well I guess since he didn't want a gate, he can be the one to go in there however the access it set up.


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## misfitmorgan

I swear I took pictures of the new pasture yesterday but i dont see them on my phone 

DH brought the two new boer girls home last night and a slightly older related buck....that will be banded. I don't know if i will breed them this year.


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## misfitmorgan

I could cry right now.

https://nmi.craigslist.org/grd/d/tiger-dapple-boer-buck/6691409024.html

This is exactly what i have been looking for in a buck for 2yrs and AFTER i buy big boy here it is...and at a reasonable price


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## CntryBoy777

Having 2 bucks like Big Boy and this one wouldn't be a bad thing....and maybe could help ya out with breeding fees from others needing new blood in their herds up that way....


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Having 2 bucks like Big Boy and this one wouldn't be a bad thing....and maybe could help ya out with breeding fees from others needing new blood in their herds up that way....



If only i could convince DH that i need two new bucks for 2 adult does and 3 doelings..... There is also the actual money and travel/logistics. We have no trailer so would have to borrow one etc...last time it ended up costing up $200 in gas. I want him, I showed him to DH and he doesnt want him. He hates dappled, spotted, full color etc in boer.


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## Latestarter

Hmmmm seems to me you and DH are on a different page on some things. Sorry this one isn't do-able for you, since it's obviously something you really wanted.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I could cry right now.
> 
> https://nmi.craigslist.org/grd/d/tiger-dapple-boer-buck/6691409024.html
> 
> This is exactly what i have been looking for in a buck for 2yrs and AFTER i buy big boy here it is...and at a reasonable price


Christmas present to yourself



misfitmorgan said:


> I showed him to DH and he doesnt want him. He hates dappled, spotted, full color etc in boer.


You can always dye him a solid color


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## misfitmorgan

DH knows i want him and he often does stuff....for me...so there is a sliver of a chance. That would mean we would have 3 bucks for our 2 adults and 3 doelings......thats good goat math right?

On another note....Ivy jumped our brand new 47" tall fence DH wants to murder her literally. She is my favorite goat but wow i never thought she would be able to jump that. She did bend over the top of the fence. I am planning on putting more hotwire up but i dont know if that will keep her in either. I'm more worried about her hurting herself then being loose, she doesnt go near the road.

So after she broke out....she broke the door knob on the shop....let the new goats,Big Boy, Mrs. pig and a runt pig loose.


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## misfitmorgan

Our Foster kid named one of the new does Latte. I am thinking about Snow White for the second because she is a black traditional boer, so white body and black head. They are not super friendly but they are ok with people and will let you touch them.


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## misfitmorgan

Some pictures of the fence


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## Bruce

Nice decorative boulder you put in the corner for the animals' enjoyment! And good thing you have sheep in there. Goats would be launching onto that rock and over the fence. 

So the only way to get in there is to go through the barn?? Yeah that could be inconvenient.


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## misfitmorgan

The rock is actually a lot bigger and steeper then it looks, there are goats in there, they are in the shed. They are not actually able to climb the boulder that i have ever seen though not from lack of trying, its 5+ft tall.

Even better the back side of the shed which was completely open when we moved in has a sheet of tin running across it with an approximately 1.5ft gap at the top of it. That blue thing in the middle is the grain trough...which we can't really get to and the round blue thing by the shed is the water trough which again we cant really get too. If DH had said before sooner we were not putting a gate of any type in the fence I would have moved then to the edge before i was locked out. Problem is...the tin is to tall for me to get in the pasture without getting injured in a place i dont want tin. Hopefully DH is planning on gate buildings this weekend.

Left to right, Oreo, polypay, sweetie, 310 or 308, captain(ram), big ram, 294, ram lamb....308 or 310 is in the shed with phoebe and fate.

The new does are officially latte and espresso, i will get you pics eventually i'm sure. It was snowing/ice pelting when i got home yesterday ....luckily it melted off within about 40 minutes.

Big Boy, Latte, espresso and the new little buck are all in the barn, with the pigs, chickens and ducks.


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## Baymule

That is a pretty buck. I don't blame you for wanting him, but y'all have to be together on that. He might be gone by now. But if he isn't...… maybe an early Christmas present?


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That is a pretty buck. I don't blame you for wanting him, but y'all have to be together on that. He might be gone by now. But if he isn't...… maybe an early Christmas present?



He has been posted for almost a month....i'm hoping he doesnt sell for a coupe more weeks then i could get him. DH said yesterday that we just don't have the funds atm....so maybe if we had funds he would let me get him.


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## Baymule

If he has been posted that long, maybe you could put him on law-away and pay him out?


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## misfitmorgan

So i contacted the owners of that buck. Told them i love him and I am interested in him, it will just be a few weeks before i have the money. I didnt ask for them to hold him or anything just wanted them to know someone was interested in him. I would be so sad if they took him to auction or the butcher because they thought no one wanted him before i could reasonably get the money together. They thanked me for letting them know and said they would text if he sells before I am ready to get him.

I think most of us have been on the selling end of craigslist and we know eventually we just kinda give up on listing a critter for sale if they dont sell for several weeks or the 900th tire kicker comes along.

I could have asked about doing payments or something but that didnt feel right this time around.


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## Latestarter

That was a really smart thing to do MFM... Good call! (pun intended?) Hope he's still there for you if/when the time comes.


----------



## Baymule

You could send a deposit to hold him until a certain date. Then if you don't get him, they keep the deposit, if you do get him, they will have held him for you.


----------



## misfitmorgan

We shall just see....if he is gone by then it wasnt ment to be.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Fate and Polypay...The sheep laying is either 308 or 310. In case anyone is wondering the pictures from this angle/spot are off our covered back deck.

Had our first heavy frost this morning


----------



## Mike CHS

We had our first frost this morning also.


----------



## Baymule

Nice view!


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## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> We had our first frost this morning also.



 Do you guys get much snow/below zero down there?



Baymule said:


> Nice view!


Thank you! When we get the sheep moved after the land is cleared we want to build an addition onto that deck and DH mentioned a catwalk to the second floor of the 2-story...we shall see.


----------



## Mike CHS

If we get any snow at all it's usually just a couple of inches.  The picture is of our only snow last winter (mid January) but we do get extended periods of temps down in the teens. The neighborhood kids had a ball sledding down the hill across from us and used 4 wheelers to go back up.    We get enough freezing rain or ice on the roads that you stay stocked up because our hills aren't vehicle friendly on many days.


----------



## farmerjan

Had our first heavy frost this morning also.  Everything white, had to scrape windshield to go pick up milk samples and meters from an owner sampler farm, get a few bags of feed, stop at SS office;  all that by 10:30 and then came home and couldn't get the 4600 started to rake hay, so finally my son came from work on his lunch time, still can't get it started;  looks like the injection pump has gone bad.  New fuel filter, fuel running out of lines when we crack them, but just a little tiny fuel when you are cranking it.  So, hooked the rake up to the big JD and raked the 10 acres of 2nd cutting orchard grass, went up and raked another 5-6 acres of "grass" then switched it to the tedder and tedded out all but about 5 acres of the remaining 20 +/- that was cut.  Went with my son to get the old Farmall H and side delivery rake that was still out at a field we did a month ago,  to rake a couple of small irregular fields with very narrow gates to get in and out of, and got home at 8:30.  I am beat and it will start all over tomorrow.  Tedd out the rest of the cut stuff, then rake all that was tedded on Sunday.  All according to how fast the stuff I tedded out today is drying, may rake some of that then leave the rest to rake on Wed.  Clouds and rain due to come in late on Thurs so it all needs to be up.  If we get pushed for time with making small sq bales, it will get rolled rather than let it get wet.  Switched my Wed morning farm,  to test on Thurs; and cancelled the one I was going to do this aft and Tues morn.  They have cancelled on me 3 times in a row so I don't feel guilty about cancelling them. They will get fit in sometime... I am not too worried about it anymore.  They cancelled twice when I had saved the day for them, and it is hard to get someone to test on short notice. So, they can wait this time on me.


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## Mike CHS

You are about as good of a time manager as I have seen.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> If we get any snow at all it's usually just a couple of inches.  The picture is of our only snow last winter (mid January) but we do get extended periods of temps down in the teens. The neighborhood kids had a ball sledding down the hill across from us and used 4 wheelers to go back up.    We get enough freezing rain or ice on the roads that you stay stocked up because our hills aren't vehicle friendly on many days.
> 
> View attachment 53561



I could handle that! I'm hoping some day to move to tenn we shall see.



farmerjan said:


> Had our first heavy frost this morning also.  Everything white, had to scrape windshield to go pick up milk samples and meters from an owner sampler farm, get a few bags of feed, stop at SS office;  all that by 10:30 and then came home and couldn't get the 4600 started to rake hay, so finally my son came from work on his lunch time, still can't get it started;  looks like the injection pump has gone bad.  New fuel filter, fuel running out of lines when we crack them, but just a little tiny fuel when you are cranking it.  So, hooked the rake up to the big JD and raked the 10 acres of 2nd cutting orchard grass, went up and raked another 5-6 acres of "grass" then switched it to the tedder and tedded out all but about 5 acres of the remaining 20 +/- that was cut.  Went with my son to get the old Farmall H and side delivery rake that was still out at a field we did a month ago,  to rake a couple of small irregular fields with very narrow gates to get in and out of, and got home at 8:30.  I am beat and it will start all over tomorrow.  Tedd out the rest of the cut stuff, then rake all that was tedded on Sunday.  All according to how fast the stuff I tedded out today is drying, may rake some of that then leave the rest to rake on Wed.  Clouds and rain due to come in late on Thurs so it all needs to be up.  If we get pushed for time with making small sq bales, it will get rolled rather than let it get wet.  Switched my Wed morning farm,  to test on Thurs; and cancelled the one I was going to do this aft and Tues morn.  They have cancelled on me 3 times in a row so I don't feel guilty about cancelling them. They will get fir in sometime... I am not too worried about it anymore.  They cancelled twice when I had saved the day for them, and it is hard to get someone to test on short notice. So, they can wait this time on me.



You're one busy bee!


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## misfitmorgan

Ok so i called the bank yesterday because we still had not got our escrow check which i was told back in like july that it would be done in october. Good thing i called because the lady didnt realize it was a new mortgage and needed the adjustment done again and i would have been waiting until march  I guess normally mortgage's are done once a year in march only new mortgage's usually ever get brought up a second time in the year and thats only if taxes or insurance changes by a lot.

Anyhow the good news is our mortgage payment dropped by almost $80/month and they are sending a check for almost  $1,000 for the over payment to our escrow 

In march we will get another escrow check for around $200 and our payment will drop like another $15/month, then in October next year our PMI will fall off which will drop our payment by another approx $60/month. So this time next year our monthly payment should be about $150/month less then it is now. So yeah i'm super happy atm!!


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## promiseacres

Make sure you don't need another appraisal to drop he pmi. Went to drop ours and the bank says give us 400....it needs appraised again. despite the fact we were told otherwise when we refinanced.


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## misfitmorgan

It's a credit union so hopefully not lol. Nothing in the paperwork says anything about requiring another appraisal unless significant improvements were made. We may just refinance in another year so we can lower our interest rate and have no pmi.


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## Bruce

That $1K could buy some fencing 
So how much does the principle on the loan have to come down to get rid of the PMI? Might be worth putting the $1K on the loan and dropping the PMI immediately. Maybe you could "recover" that $1K by not paying PMI.


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## Baymule

That is awesome on the house payment. Lower is better!


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> That $1K could buy some fencing
> So how much does the principle on the loan have to come down to get rid of the PMI? Might be worth putting the $1K on the loan and dropping the PMI immediately. Maybe you could "recover" that $1K by not paying PMI.



About another $6k so nope on the $1k doing much. 3yrs before we bought this place it was appraised and had a loan on it for $142,000 but the current appraisals are only something like $72,000. The only thing i can think of is when it was clear cut it dropped the price but by 50% seems a big drop. The loan owed has to get down to approx 51k atm we owe 57k. In another year we should be close.

tiled tillable $2,500/acre
cleared/tillable land $2,000/acre 
hardwoods is $1,850/acre
scrub land/ex-forest is only about $1,000/acre

So after we get it cleared and fenced it will improve our value by about $10,000 overall plus the new livestock buildings we plan to build.

So we need to get glow plugs for the truck, some used tires for the front of the truck, a new bearing for the trailblazer, then we will be building a small buck pen with shelter for Big boy....and perhaps a new guest , then we will be buying two rolls of fencing which will give us enough with our current roll to fence pasture 1 in the spring.


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## misfitmorgan

Anyone know if 16'x8' is a big enough pen for a boer buck? Plus a 8'x4' shelter?
Something like this



 

 

Each side for each Buck/Ram...I'm hoping to build two of these actually one for bucks and one for rams but probly only have money/materials for one atm. So each 20'x16' building/pen would hold two bucks or two rams.

I could also make the outside part of the pen 16'x16' but that complicates the design a little bit and of course would cost a little more. This housing would only be for bucks/rams during fall/winter and the spring/summer it would be used for weaning or quarantine.

Any thoughts?


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## Latestarter

The bldg design you showed is what I'm building in 24' wide x 16' depth for my does. I built a 3 sided raised shelter for my buck with floor size of one sheet of plywood; 4'x8'. My buck shares his containment area (with the shelter enclosed within it), with 2 wethers that are still under a year old. When the weather is bad, he doesn't let them inside the shelter with him and they're stuck standing outside under the eaves or with their heads and upper body stuck inside the hay feeder (it has a roof). When it was the only shelter for a spell, and all the goats were together, they ALL fit inside it standing when the weather was really bad. The lowest on the head butting order would sometimes get kicked out and stand under the eaves (or out in the rain) 

The ground area I have enclosed for the three boys is 2 cattle panels long by 2 cattle panels wide (32' x 32') and one end of 2 cattle panels, where they meet at an outside corner, were cut with bolt cutters at ~ 4' so the cut section could be used as gates. One to the outside, the other to the doe pen adjacent. The gates "latch" to each other as well as the (end of the) cattle panel fencing that continues down the way to form the doe pen. I use carabiner clips high and low to hold the gates closed, and they do a fine job. The boys DO climb up the gates and place their weight on them, but though they bend out a little, it's not enough to allow them to escape, and I can grab the panels and bend them back straight easily enough.

Once breeding season is over, I'll open the inside gate and let all of them use both sides once more. Just can't do that now with yearling does too small to have bred. The size area I have for the 3 boys is about the minimum I'd want to give them if they'll be in there for any period of time. The buck, RJ, does get to chasing the wethers around at times and they need enough room to be able to escape getting "beat up" on. Especially when a doe is in heat and RJ knows and gets all sexcited... He can't get to the does, so gets a little "worked up"... I'm not sure I'd want to keep one buck or ram in an area the size you're offering for any prolonged period of time. I'm sure it would be quite sufficient for a couple of months during breeding season, to keep him away from the girls till you want them bred. I would definitely not have more than one animal in that space though.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thanks for the info LS!

There shouldnt be a fighting/bullying issue as they would be separated by a cattle panel fence outside and a wood wall inside. Each Buck/ram would have a 4'x8' shelter and a 16'x8' run all to themselves.

I can do 16'x16' it just seems kind of large for one animal for breeding/weaning/quarantine. I'm thinking back to our barn stalls that were 12'x10' and everyone said...why are your stalls so huge 

About $38 difference in cost....for that i think i can give them a bigger pen.

The entire project is about $110 plus nails and some snaps for latches and that is to build both pens. I need to figure out wood and see if we have enough to actually build 4 shelters/pens......


----------



## misfitmorgan

Our hereford gilt had a litter of piglets last night, while we were gone trick or treating. She is a first time mother and we thought had a couple more days as her milk line didnt look fully in. Turns out she has a small milk line, she over nested, and laid on two. She ended up having 11 piglets which is a lot for a first timer but only 7 were still with us when we got home. It was our mistakes and not being ready, DH did just move her pens last night as well so she was very stressed from being moved. We planned on moving her sooner but we had to build a new stall first which was completed Tuesday night.

On the bright side this will be our first litter of papered and registered herefords!


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## Bruce

Sorry you lost some, hopefully she'll take great care of the rest. 

She didn't give you the schedule so you had no way of knowing she was just waiting for you to leave.


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## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> On the bright side this will be our first litter of papered and registered herefords!


* PICTURES!!!!!!! *
 
congrats on the litter!!!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> * PICTURES!!!!!!! *
> 
> congrats on the litter!!!



Sadly when we got home we had lost the other 6 piglets. Perfect example of why you dont stress a first time mother, or move them, or give to much bedding, etc. A lot of mistakes on our part added up to the loss. We really did think we had about another week before she would deliver but we were wrong it was less then 24hrs after we moved her.


----------



## promiseacres

Ugh. That sucks!


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## misfitmorgan

Sara is bred and should be having piglets soon. 
The other hereford girl should also be bred. 
Laverne has a date with a freezer soon.
3 of Sara's gilts and 1 barrow from her last litter will be going to our friends house. Gilts to be breeders, barrow to be raised for butcher for us. We also get pick of litter on the 3 gilts when they farrow.
Spots piglets are being weaned now, 3 of those will go to our friends house the other 3 we will be keeping to sell or use for meat.

Our new boer girls are doing well. We plan to build the buck/ram house this weekend if the weather plays nice. The ram lamb we have is scheduled to be going in to the freezer in about a month. 

The tiger dapple buck i was hoping to get sold on Wednesday, so i will be breeding phoebe to big boy. I think the new boer girls will also be bred they are decent size i believe and were born in febuary so would be 13+months old by kidding time.


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## Latestarter

So sorry for your piglet loss. That just sucks...


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## Bruce

Sure sorry about the rest of the litter misfit  I guess I don't know much about pigs to understand how that happens.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> So sorry for your piglet loss. That just sucks...


Thank you



Bruce said:


> Sure sorry about the rest of the litter misfit  I guess I don't know much about pigs to understand how that happens.



Combination of things.
Problems:
We didnt have a heat lamp up
We over bedded the new stall(weren't expecting piglets and our pigs eat hay so normally not a problem)
We moved a pig less then 24hrs before farrow
First time mom
New stall with new bedding means we had no composting heat just cold cement under the bedding

Heat lamp obviously is a problem because its cold here like in the 20-30s at night and 50s daytime, piglets need 85-95F for the first few days. 
Over bedding and a new momma with crazy hormones often means over nesting. Over nesting is an issue because the piglets will get lost in the bedding or trapped in it and get laid on or against or not be able to get to the teat to nurse. 

Moving a pig so close to farrowing causes a huge stress load on the mommas, they will often abort, eat their babies, freak out on anything within reach, show obvious signs of stress such as grinding teeth, pacing, barking, jumping, restless, darting eyes, lack of appetite, etc. You have to think they have spent several weeks preparing the area they will farrow in perfectly for their babies, let the other pigs know this is their nest, know their stall mates, know their routine....then suddenly they are jerked out of it to this alien new place and often seem to freak out not knowing the threats to their babies they might find.

Obviously any first time mother of anything generally only has instinct to go on and they do make mistakes. Spot is a excellent mother to any piglets even those she didnt have and she even makes mistakes sometimes. In her current litter she laid on two of them. Honestly she tries very hard to be careful but your talking a 400+lb sow trying to keep track of 7-14 piglets that are 2-3lbs who are all swarming under and around her to get to milk or warmth. All of our sows are very good at being careful, they will walk to a new spot and slowly lay down. Giving piglets enough time to move however newborns are not the smartest and often they just dont move. So the poor momma who just had X number of piglets an hour ago has to jump back up, walk to a new spot and try again. We have watched our sows do this up to a dozen times in a row before kind of giving up and laying down. Piglets squeal bloody murder so the momma will kind of wiggle hoping they move but sometimes they can't or don't. I dont really blame the sows, they are tired and trying to lay down so slow, standing up, trying again over and over its understandable. First time mommas also often don't know exactly what they are suppose to do, they can be confused like any other animal. This tiny alien trying to latch onto you to do who knows what.

Generally for winter we use a composting floor. Seeing as it was a brand new stall there was nothing to compost to make heat.

Mostly human failures lead to the loss. We have learned, we now have heat lamps a plenty and are putting up kushing boards in the farrow stalls.


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## Baymule

So sorry about your baby piggies. I know that you and your husband take very good care of your animals. We all make mistakes and we all want to kick ourselves sometimes. But we learn from it and move on. Big hugs.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> So sorry about your baby piggies. I know that you and your husband take very good care of your animals. We all make mistakes and we all want to kick ourselves sometimes. But we learn from it and move on. Big hugs.



Thank you Bay


----------



## misfitmorgan

Ok so we have 6 new sheep.
New White, New Brown, New Small Brown, New Wooly Brown, New Black And Greg the Ram. You may have noticed they don't have names. Our friend has had a rough year and is now going thru a nasty divorce, so he called us up and said come get the sheep. So we did....

We have 5 new (we think) ewes. We have not checked sex as he didn't have them sheared this year so  they are currently wearing 2yrs of wool. They are rather large sheep but the wool is only maybe 4in from the ground so they look oddly squat. As far as breed we only know they are polypay and bond mixed with who knows. Our white polypay came from that same herd about 3yrs ago....i believe the new white sheep is her sister. The bond comes from DHs bond ram he had when i met him 5yrs ago, the ram was traded to our friend 4yrs go and died we believe last winter. He was an old ram and had a pretty good life.

The new ewes all gave twins last year and have never been wormed or had CDT. Have not done famcha yet but we did feel them down and they are really good weight for going into winter. He has been breeding this "type" of sheep for at least 7yrs and has never wormed them or given CDT. The approx. 4yrs we have known him he has not lost a single sheep or lamb to parasites or bloat. They do not get any type of mineral, and are only grained with shell corn. I am at a loss how these sheep are so healthy and hardy while ours keep dying despite giving them everything we are "suppose" too.

We are discussing breeding our big suffolk ram to the "mutts" next breeding season(fall 2019) and then using Captain into the mutt lambs for fall 2020 to see if the resistance comes thru. That would give us 75% Suffolk 25% mutt in the 2020 lambs plus our pure suffolk lambs.

Latte, Espresso, Ivy, little buck, and Fate are all out in the pasture. Phoebe and Big Boy are in the shop, after she is bred Phoebe will go back to pasture. Little buck will go back to the shop to buddy for big boy until we get them a pen built.

So it seems this year we will be expecting 4-8 goats kids and 18 lambs. oh boy!


----------



## Mike CHS

You have taken animal math to a whole new level.


----------



## Bruce

Things are really moving along at your place!


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## Baymule

Yay! More sheep! Tough, hardy, mutts that survive and thrive! Pictures of these lovelies?


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## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> You have taken animal math to a whole new level.


IT seems so!



Bruce said:


> Things are really moving along at your place!


Baby steps was the plan lol



Baymule said:


> Yay! More sheep! Tough, hardy, mutts that survive and thrive! Pictures of these lovelies?


I knew someone was gonna ask for pictures. I don't have any yet. By the time they got home and in the pen and chores done it was dark, last night i worked late and it was dark when i got home. I will try tonight.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Also Ivy is now back in the shop...she jumped the 47" fence again. She is 2.5 months prego and we are not risking her jumping it again.


----------



## Bruce

So much for "sheep and goat" height fence keeping her in!


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> So much for "sheep and goat" height fence keeping her in!



Once she is kid free and can go back outside we are putting an offset hotwire in. See if the butt jumps that lol.


----------



## misfitmorgan

So we may have a problem.

We planned for winter with our small herd for hay...they are now eatting two small square bales a day instead of 1 so we will be out of small square hay by about mid-january. We have 4 or 5 round bales for back up and that should get us thru mid-march. So basically we will be buying hay it seems. Kinda sucky because we sold 100 bales this summer before we got the new boers and the buck which would have been enough. We also split hay with the guy who helps bale and the guy who helped us move/stack. All in all we probly lost 400 bales in those deals before we ever sold any.

So unless we do more then one cut next year we are not selling any hay. Our feild was suppose to be plowed last fall but the guy never got to it.....didnt this fall either. We intend on planting a new grass mix and a tiny bit of alfalfa, if it ever gets plowed. The main goal is to smooth out the field it is rough as can be and is getting worse each year.


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## promiseacres

That sucks. I am feeding more than planned also. Just so cold this early...feeding more due to that. But we should be ok. I ended up reserving an extra 100 bales from a neighbor.


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## misfitmorgan

promiseacres said:


> That sucks. I am feeding more than planned also. Just so cold this early...feeding more due to that. But we should be ok. I ended up reserving an extra 100 bales from a neighbor.



We have noticed our herd is already eating more then normal as well due to the cold temps. We went from 12 hay eaters to 22


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## Baymule

We had a summer drought and hay prices spiked. We bought hay that turned out to not be very good. It fills their bellies and that’s about it. Then we got another horse. Next year we are going to buy some square bales to go with the round bales.


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## farmerjan

Sorry to hear about the hay because at one time you had so much and were worried about trying to get it moved.  Hopefully prices there won't be too bad, and you have to kinda get situated with the amount you will be getting there on your own place.  Not surprising that you are going through so much more when you did basically double the number of sheep.  

Since the field didn't get plowed/planted, at this point my suggestion would be to see if you can just cut it next year and then get the renovations done in the fall next year.  Get your hay, even if mediocre, made and stored first, then see about the field getting renovated.  You don't want to do it in the spring and then have bad weather or a drought and not be able to find any hay, or not be able to afford it.  Rough fields, just mean you will have to do the haying with a little more patience, slower speeds, and then you can try to get it the way you want.  You might find that after a first cutting, it might come back decent and give you some nicer 2nd cutting.  Plus, although the income would be nice, I would just plan to fill up any/all the space I can with hay, and then get something decent planted that will bring you good money when it comes time to sell it.   Better to have too much, even if not the greatest quality.... you can supplement a little bit of grain but having that fiber to fill them up is important in the winter.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> We have noticed our herd is already eating more then normal as well due to the cold temps. We went from 12 hay eaters to 22


That will sure screw up your hay plans! Hope you can find some decent stuff for a good price.


----------



## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Sorry to hear about the hay because at one time you had so much and were worried about trying to get it moved.  Hopefully prices there won't be too bad, and you have to kinda get situated with the amount you will be getting there on your own place.  Not surprising that you are going through so much more when you did basically double the number of sheep.
> 
> Since the field didn't get plowed/planted, at this point my suggestion would be to see if you can just cut it next year and then get the renovations done in the fall next year.  Get your hay, even if mediocre, made and stored first, then see about the field getting renovated.  You don't want to do it in the spring and then have bad weather or a drought and not be able to find any hay, or not be able to afford it.  Rough fields, just mean you will have to do the haying with a little more patience, slower speeds, and then you can try to get it the way you want.  You might find that after a first cutting, it might come back decent and give you some nicer 2nd cutting.  Plus, although the income would be nice, I would just plan to fill up any/all the space I can with hay, and then get something decent planted that will bring you good money when it comes time to sell it.   Better to have too much, even if not the greatest quality.... you can supplement a little bit of grain but having that fiber to fill them up is important in the winter.



The hay actually is good quality still just lower yield. The biggest reason is the field is so rough now that even going super slow the hay keeps falling off the wagon going over the ruts and bumps. This years hay we had to restack some of the wagons 3 or 4 times and we were already stacking them two rows shorter then we normally would. We also already round bale the back of the field which is the worst of the field for yield and bumpiness. 
It wasnt a good year for hay up here though, normal yield is about 2.5-3 tons/ acre, this year it was about 2.25 tons/acre for us. The guy who helps do hay won't do a second cut on that field because the first cut is bad enough and we dont want to risk breaking equipment for a few hundred bales of 2nd. We have a guy who cuts, rakes and bales...he gets half the field, then our guy who helps stack in field and our buildings gets 200 small squares. Both of these people do a lot to help us out through out the year and are like our family so we give them extra when it comes to hay. 

After we moved we decided to only retain one hay field which is approx 27 acres. We have no tractor and no haying equipment right now. We had a baler, a tractor, and share deals on a mower, a rake, and wagons. The tractor broke before i came to BYH and the baler was fought over on who owns it because it was a labor trade so we said screw it you can keep it. We hope to buy a tractor this year but we will see how things go, we also have fencing to do and so much other stuff around here. A tractor lives at our farm still but it has no hydraulics atm so we can only use it for 3pt stuff.



Bruce said:


> That will sure screw up your hay plans! Hope you can find some decent stuff for a good price.



Hay is never hard to find up here, the only time it was hard was the drought in 2012 and even then the high price was $7/bale for grass 1st cut. People have high prices right now, we will wait until we get closer to running out and then look. By that time prices will have come down because people want the hay out to make room for the soon to come 2019 hay and dont want to get stuck with it when spring hits. Thats the time of year you find a lot of $1/bale deals or come get it for free if you know the right people.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> A tractor lives at our farm still but it has no hydraulics atm so we can only use it for 3pt stuff.


Isn't that all you need to make hay?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Farthest right is a new light brown sheep, the oreo, then a new dark brown sheep, the one in the blue feeder is a new white sheep, the far left is a a new light brown sheep.




To the far left is a new brown sheep.






Right to left
New brown, Oreo, New brown, suffolk ram lamb, new white(foreground), Fate, 294(white lump by fate), on this side of the bale big ram, little buck, latte. far side of the bale captains head behind Greg the new ram(giant white lump), to the left is the polypay, then 310 or 308, far back is sweetie.




Phoebe, Ivy, and big boy are in the barn. 308 or 310 and espresso are not in the picture.

Also pretty sure all those brown sheep are really going to be black when they are sheared. They have black faces.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Isn't that all you need to make hay?



If you are only making small squares and have someone else with a mower, rake, baler and wagons....then yes.


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## misfitmorgan

@Baymule ......pictures


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## CntryBoy777

Sorry about the pig issues....and happy for the new additions!!....really glad ya are only having to deal with issues at your own place rather than the fiascos ya had to endure at the other place. As each year passes ya will be able to improve and advance much further, because issues like fences and pens and such will be already done....tho, I sure there will be some redesigning done then, also.....especially if ya don't get a grip on the animal "math".....


----------



## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> @Baymule ......pictures



 

That is a beautiful view, looking out the window at your barns and sheep. The light snow on the ground just makes it more picturesque.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Sorry about the pig issues....and happy for the new additions!!....really glad ya are only having to deal with issues at your own place rather than the fiascos ya had to endure at the other place. As each year passes ya will be able to improve and advance much further, because issues like fences and pens and such will be already done....tho, I sure there will be some redesigning done then, also.....especially if ya don't get a grip on the animal "math".....



Thank you

It is still nice to be on our own place. I know things will get done in time, making due for now.

A grip on animal math...  That doesnt seem likely, DH was talking about wanting ostrich's on Sunday and we still want a few cows/cattle. 

Our current end goal is about 50 Ewe and 30 or so meat goats. If we have lambs/kids as expected we will have 33 sheep and 14-17 goats. Figure on half being females that should put us into winter 2019/2020 with 23 Sheep and 10-12 goats to over winter. If all goes well we should make a little under 2k selling the boys off which will buy a lot of fence. Not that i'm counting my chickens....err kids/lambs. Modest projection says we should be able to have our goal numbers by spring 2020, we shall see.


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## Bruce

Sounds like you are squarely on your road to success.


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## Baymule

What is your market for selling lambs/kids? Craigslist?


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> What is your market for selling lambs/kids? Craigslist?



We do use craigslist but we also have a good word of mouth community, active 4-h and people who just want lambs/goats to raise for butcher. We already have 2 goat kids and 2 lambs on hold for the spring kids/lambs which is a first for us. Of course we also have 2 piglets on hold...again a first.

If it came down to it and we used the sale profits from 2020 spring kids/lambs to buy a decent size trailer we could haul down to the eastern market about 4hrs away and sell all goats/lambs without a problem in a couple hours for $150-200 each. Last year adult meat goats were selling for approx $600/each in the eastern market...in the fall/winter.

We also have the auction route which is around 2hrs away but thats a bigger gamble, and of course the meat for our freezer route too.

On 50 ewe if you figure half have twins that would give us 75 lambs/yr. Locally we should be able to sell about half of those to 4-h kids/raise for butcher. We would want 2-3 lambs for our freezer. We should have a good amount sold to other breeders as breeders. Then we have out of area sales, people have driven to get livestock from us from 3+hrs away. The remaining would go to auction, eastern market, our freezer or be held over for christmas/fall lambs/sold ready for butcher. We figure we will have 10-20 lambs left to go on the last option there...minus any replacement ewes we need.

In the next few years we will have to replace sweetie and the polypay for sure, not sure ages on the new sheep. Sweetie is at least 5yrs old and the polypay is at least 6yrs old, making them 7 and 8 by spring 2020 plus time to raise the replacements puts them at around 8 and 9 years old minimum and definitely time to think about retirement based on condition and lamb vigor. We do plan to retain a number of good healthy looking ewe lambs for replacements for older/poor performing ewes every year. We will likely slowly phase out ewes that consistently throw singles or are poorly looking. Once we have all ewes who give twins/trips we may drop down to 40 ewes total depending on the market.


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## misfitmorgan

I forgot to mention we do have a restaurant about 45 minutes away that is very interested in finding a local source for lamb for the restaurant. Conservatively he estimates needing 40-50 lambs/yr butcher ready. We may go down that road in the future as well, it would be a bigger gamble though and done on contract.

Switching to meat goats should improve our sales and we plan on switching to a registered boer buck for 2019 breeding and hopefully getting our boer does NOA so we can do some % registered stock.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I forgot to mention we do have a restaurant about 45 minutes away that is very interested in finding a local source for lamb for the restaurant. Conservatively he estimates needing 40-50 lambs/yr butcher ready.


That would be great!


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## Baymule

Buying your place is one of the best things you two have done for yourselves. Hearing about your plans, the market you have for what you raise (on YOUR farm) only serves to bring it home, that y'all did the right thing.

4Her's and AAFer's around here are conditioned to buy club lambs, which are Suffolks. They command ridiculous prices. Kids used to hit up my husband at his work (because he NEVER turned a kid down) for donations so they could purchase their animals.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Buying your place is one of the best things you two have done for yourselves. Hearing about your plans, the market you have for what you raise (on YOUR farm) only serves to bring it home, that y'all did the right thing.
> 
> 4Her's and AAFer's around here are conditioned to buy club lambs, which are Suffolks. They command ridiculous prices. Kids used to hit up my husband at his work (because he NEVER turned a kid down) for donations so they could purchase their animals.



People do the same thing up here with all livestock. It's not unheard of to see lambs for $300-500, piglets for $300-350, and kids for $600+ That's part of the reason we got into livestock....to offer lower prices on better stock in our area. The high price livestock are all a 3+hr drive as well, our area $150-175 4h piglets are common and $200 lambs/kids. We beat everyone elses prices, so kids have more options.

Not much new around here, we had a good christmas. The warm weather is giving us some problems, like parasite load. We were not to concerned about the drylot size because everything was suppose to freeze and stay frozen, and nice clean snow, etc.....thats not happening. We still have places with green grass and its suppose to be 45f friday. Means we will likely have to worm again soon. The young kids/lambs are looking rather thin thru the hips so are probly needing wormed.


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## Baymule

Worms.   I hope you get the cold weather you need to shut the worms down for the winter months.


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## Bruce

Nice that you want to give people a better product for a lower price.


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## misfitmorgan

*~~~~~~GRAPHIC PICTURE WARNING~~~~~~ IF BUTCHERING BOTHERS YOU GO TO A DIFFERENT PAGE~~~~~*



Baymule said:


> Worms.   I hope you get the cold weather you need to shut the worms down for the winter months.



Your wish came true. We had 10 inches of snow dumped on us on new years eve to new years day and another inch last night. Before that came freezing rain and the temp yesterday got down to -3F and the high was 14F. So anything on the ground should be dead now and is covered in a lot of snow. It's suppose to be in the mid 30s to low 40s the next 7 days so most of the snow should melt off.

We need to build jugs/kidding pens in the shop, maybe today we can work on that. We have enough hay until the first few days of February atm. We are hoping to get a round bale mid-january and about 20 square bales and then another couple rounds and 60 square mid-febuary. We should be good on hay then depending on spring and ability to fence.

No other news really to report atm. Oh DH did let the new chickens loose to free range...hopefully they survive.




DH helped kill some potbelly pigs at our friends house to make room for some meat pigs. This is DH and the pigs they got done.


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## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> If it came down to it and we used the sale profits from 2020 spring kids/lambs to buy a decent size trailer we could haul down to the eastern market about 4hrs away and sell all goats/lambs without a problem in a couple hours for $150-200 each. Last year adult meat goats were selling for approx $600/each in the eastern market...in the fall/winter.



What's the 'eastern market'?
Eastern Michigan?


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## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> What's the 'eastern market'?
> Eastern Michigan?



The eastern market is the largest public market in the united states and is down by detroit michigan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Market,_Detroit


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## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> The eastern market is the largest public market in the united states and is down by detroit michigan.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Market,_Detroit


Interesting economics and historic aspects...two things I like to read about.

There used to be a similar market in Houston (I forget exactly where it was)
The property became too valuable to be used for that and was sold back in the 70s or 80s to developers and no single/all under one roof replacement has been established that I know of.

There is a small one every Wed in what used to be the local salebarn, but it's all live poultry with an occasional pony being for sale, and really not much of anything there at all. Someone will usually have a utility trailer parked there with way over-priced horse hay for sale...small sq bales.
Fri-Sun it becomes a regular flea/junk market.


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## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> Interesting economics and historic aspects...two things I like to read about.
> 
> There used to be a similar market in Houston (I forget exactly where it was)
> The property became too valuable to be used for that and was sold back in the 70s or 80s to developers and no single/all under one roof replacement has been established that I know of.
> 
> There is a small one every Wed in what used to be the local salebarn, but it's all live poultry with an occasional pony being for sale, and really not much of anything there at all. Someone will usually have a utility trailer parked there with way over-priced horse hay for sale...small sq bales.
> Fri-Sun it becomes a regular flea/junk market.



I love reading about the same topics and find my self looking in insane things i will never need to know lol.

The eastern market does so well i believe because of the ethnic population and cultural diversity in detroit and the surrounding areas. It really has everything from flowers to ready made food, to livestock/sale for butcher. They have goats, sheep, poultry, christmas trees, its really unique.


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## Latestarter

Sounds like purchasing a used/serviceable trailer would be a huge benefit as you'd be able to get much better profits by trucking your sale animals down to the Eastern Market. A couple trips ought to pay for the trailer plus expenses with some to spare. Actually, down here, you can rent livestock trailers for ~ $50-75/day. Not sure of cost for a week. Even doing that might pay off big for you. Do you have a friend or family member with a trailer they could loan you?


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## Baymule

Our 4 horse stock trailer is indispensable. We use it all the time to pick up animals we buy and to take to slaughter and the vet. Buying a trailer would be a wonderful addition to your farm. It would be well worth it. 

Glad you got the cold and snow that you needed. Personally, I'd rather have the worms.  

Pot belly pigs make meat too. Just not as much. Good work on getting them done. 

We live about 30 miles from Canton, Tx, the largest flea market in the US. If is over 400 acres. I usually go when my sister and her friend come up, just so I can get time with my big sis and hang out with her. We rent electric scooters and ride. LOL There is an animal section too, but most of it is flea market stuff. 

https://firstmondaycanton.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1_LZ8Y7S3wIVySCtBh2zhAFMEAAYASAAEgJALPD_BwE


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Sounds like purchasing a used/serviceable trailer would be a huge benefit as you'd be able to get much better profits by trucking your sale animals down to the Eastern Market. A couple trips ought to pay for the trailer plus expenses with some to spare. Actually, down here, you can rent livestock trailers for ~ $50-75/day. Not sure of cost for a week. Even doing that might pay off big for you. Do you have a friend or family member with a trailer they could loan you?



We have been looking, for now we want a smaller trailer and have found a few for under a grand that are in good shape. Mostly 2 horse bumper pulls. Waiting for tax time to come around and hoping we are getting a refund this year. No family or friends with trailers we could really use atm. Our friend loaned us one to get big boy and the 2hr trip ended up costing us $200 in gas, because we used our other friends truck because we dont have a 5th wheel plate on our truck.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Our 4 horse stock trailer is indispensable. We use it all the time to pick up animals we buy and to take to slaughter and the vet. Buying a trailer would be a wonderful addition to your farm. It would be well worth it.
> 
> Glad you got the cold and snow that you needed. Personally, I'd rather have the worms.
> 
> Pot belly pigs make meat too. Just not as much. Good work on getting them done.
> 
> We live about 30 miles from Canton, Tx, the largest flea market in the US. If is over 400 acres. I usually go when my sister and her friend come up, just so I can get time with my big sis and hang out with her. We rent electric scooters and ride. LOL There is an animal section too, but most of it is flea market stuff.
> 
> https://firstmondaycanton.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1_LZ8Y7S3wIVySCtBh2zhAFMEAAYASAAEgJALPD_BwE



We have been looking for a trailer for awhile now but we never seem to have the money when we find a good deal on a trailer that will work for us lol.

If wormer was cheaper i would take the worms too, i hate snow and cold.

Our friend is making room to take 4 of sarah's gilt piglets, 1 of spots gilt piglets and 1 of spots boar piglets....and possibly our runt pig. Then Spadeux who is Spot's daughter will be coming over to get bred by our hereford. Then in spring will go over to his house and build two more pens, one for spot, and one for spadeux. Then he will get a boar in spring some time and after Sarah's gilts are bred and farrow we get pick of each of their first litters.

Meanwhile that leaves an extra 2 pens open at our house until spring which we can definitely use and frees up a third pen in spring. 

Everyone follow that??  Anyhow that's why it was time to butcher the potbellies......and also why we will definitely need a trailer soon.

That flea market looks like an awesome place to go...I would love it!!


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## misfitmorgan

The first 2 pics are last weekend and the last pic is Saturday.

The little black and white goat outside on this side of the shed is espresso one of our new boer/nubian girls.


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## misfitmorgan

One of our hereford girls gotten beaten up bad by Spot and had a hematoma on her rear left leg as well as losing weight and hair from stress and being ran off the feed. We moved Spot to her own stall and moved the hereford to the main floor so she just had goats and Mrs. pig to compete with for food.

We also lanced the hematoma because it was huge and needed it. Two days later she refused food and water, that happens sometimes so we let it go. 

The next day she refused food and water and to get up....that was the no something is wrong here. So DH whacked her up with Pen G and Iron. He got her to drink some water but that was it.

The next day she was down in the corner, hypothermic. DH and I built her a quick stall and put thick hay down, then put a heat lamp on her. I insisted we force fed her water but that didnt work she would not even try to swallow it. So i went to the house with protest from DH and got honey, mixed honey with water and drenched it into her mouth, that worked she swallowed it. DH gave her more Pen G, Iron, and Vitamin B. We left her in the stall with warm water, liquid mash and dry feed. DH Told me not to have much hope he was pretty sure she was not going to make it. I told him I had hope she would and would do anything I thought would help. I dont know what it was but when DH checked on her later that night she had drank some water and eaten some food and was shaking...which is better then hypothermia.

DH kept giving her everything(pen G, iron, Vit B)...the next day she drank a lot of water and ate a lot of feed.

She is not totally recovered and has good and bad days but she is hopefully on the mend. She is still in her make shift stall with her heat lamp. Today i have to get her some yogurt to help her gut flora as the Pen G has likely killed it which will put her off feed. The best we can figure is after we lanced her hematoma she got an infection thru the open wound.

Nothing else to report.


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## Baymule

Your snow pictures are lovely, homey looking and should be on a Christmas card. It also makes me glad that we don't get snow every year, and when we do, it only lasts 3-4 days. LOL

I am sorry about your Hereford girl. You did good in giving her honey, the sugars are easily broken down and used by the body. In cases of dehydration, I use a sugar/salt solution. It is a home made electrolyte solution. The ratio is 5 tablespoons of sugar to 1 tablespoon of salt in a half gallon of water. It can be adjusted to lesser amounts but keep the 5 to 1 ratio. I hope she continues to improve. You know how much I love those Herefords. 

Y'all come on down for First Monday! We'll put y'all up and make a weekend of it!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Your snow pictures are lovely, homey looking and should be on a Christmas card. It also makes me glad that we don't get snow every year, and when we do, it only lasts 3-4 days. LOL
> 
> I am sorry about your Hereford girl. You did good in giving her honey, the sugars are easily broken down and used by the body. In cases of dehydration, I use a sugar/salt solution. It is a home made electrolyte solution. The ratio is 5 tablespoons of sugar to 1 tablespoon of salt in a half gallon of water. It can be adjusted to lesser amounts but keep the 5 to 1 ratio. I hope she continues to improve. You know how much I love those Herefords.
> 
> Y'all come on down for First Monday! We'll put y'all up and make a weekend of it!



I wish it only lasted 3-4 days, though in truth until new years day we had hardly gotten any snow and temps were in the 30-40s which is very warm for here. So  really I shouldnt complain to much, we skipped out on half of winter.

That's what i was thinking, honey/sugar easy to digest and gives her something to try to get to some real food plus a little water went with it. A trick we use with kids/lambs who are down is honey, coffee and water..then as soon as they are responsive at all, a bottle of milk or formula. I have saved a few with that as well as hot water bottles or heat boxes. I'm hoping she makes a full recovery, she will be in her own pen/stall until she gains weight and is completely well then she will go back in with her sister. We did tell our friend, Spot definitely needs to go to his place soon.

Maybe we will someday, I know I would love the trip and the flea market! Thank you for the generosity Bay


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## Latestarter

So glad you were able to save your Hereford girl. That would have been a sad loss. Hope she makes a full recovery. Those are some nice pictures, thanks for sharing! Looks like the animals have a designated route to/from the hay and aren't too interested in varying from it.


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## Bruce

Sure glad you got the Hereford back up and that she fully recovers. Any idea why Spot would beat up on her?


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> So glad you were able to save your Hereford girl. That would have been a sad loss. Hope she makes a full recovery. Those are some nice pictures, thanks for sharing! Looks like the animals have a designated route to/from the hay and aren't too interested in varying from it.



It would have been a really bad loss. I love the herefords and on top of that she hasnt given us a litter yet. This is the same hereford we had problems with Spot beating on before. We had put her on the main floor for a month in the summer to put weight on and then in her own stall. We thought the problem was that Spot was so much bigger. When Spot had piglets we needed the hereford stall so spot went in there and hereford went in the big pen with the others. Things were fine then after piglets were weaned we put spot back in the big pen. 

Seems size wasnt the problem, i think the biggest problem is this hereford girl is so docile and calm, gets along with everyone that she won't fight back. Also Spot is a *itch which we have told our friend since the day we saw her. 

They definitely dont want to go in the deeper snow, i don't blame them. We do move the hay around though so they are forced to go in different areas. That's for health and clean up in the spring. We had a sort of hay feeder rigged up but they broke it, so we are ground feeding again...which i hate.



Bruce said:


> Sure glad you got the Hereford back up and that she fully recovers. Any idea why Spot would beat up on her?



Spot came out of the same barn as our original stock, to pick our original stock i went and sat in the center pen between two other pens with a Sow and babies in each. The piglets food was in the pen i was sitting in. I sat in there checking temperaments, conformation, touching them and picked out our 2 piglets. That was eva and our first boar. Later we ended up picking another gilt piglet(Jackie...from what was left, i never would have picked her otherwise) from the same litter for our friend and a barrow for my mother. So we had 4 piglets and then our friend went and looked in the pen and said i like that spot piglet i want that one.  I told him he didnt he said yes he liked the spots  In case you dont know do not pick your pigs based on looked alone. Spot even as a piglet was wild, loud, mouthy, and bullied/chased the other piglets....not something you want in a breeder usually, least not for us. He also picked out Red because he liked her red color.....again are you kidding me. Red was just wild and mouthy, he ate her after her first litter because she became psychotic and kept trying to injury/kill/attack us.


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## Bruce

Yep, sounds like your friend needs to pick up Spot ASAP. PITA since day one apparently.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Yep, sounds like your friend needs to pick up Spot ASAP. PITA since day one apparently.



Agreed, her only saving Grace is she is a good mother, she has 10-14 piglets and she does it on schedule. Problem now is the trailer we borrow normally is snowed in.


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## Baymule

Spring will come, then you can get things better sorted out. It tales time, work and money, when you move to a new place. We closed on this place September of 2014, moved on February 14, 2015 (our 19th anniversary) and have worked on our place steadily ever since. While we have knocked out the bigger projects, there is still a lot to do. 

Snow banks keep you from moving forward, rain keeps us inside. The snow will melt away, the mud will dry up and it will be beautiful for y'all to get outside and work on your place.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Spring will come, then you can get things better sorted out. It tales time, work and money, when you move to a new place. We closed on this place September of 2014, moved on February 14, 2015 (our 19th anniversary) and have worked on our place steadily ever since. While we have knocked out the bigger projects, there is still a lot to do.
> 
> Snow banks keep you from moving forward, rain keeps us inside. The snow will melt away, the mud will dry up and it will be beautiful for y'all to get outside and work on your place.



Oh I know Bay, even when we are "done" with out projects there is always more and I think it will always be that way. I think we will always see whats lacking more then what we have, I think it's kinda human nature. A few years ago we really wanted a truck...we have one now but I don't think about it much. Now we really want a trailer....I assume when we get one it won't be much on our thoughts anymore.


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## Bruce

Nope, once you have it you check it off the "to do" list and just use it.


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## misfitmorgan

Sadly i have to inform you guys that we lost the hereford. She looked on the upswing and DH went out to check on her after work and she was gone.

In other news, her sister is pregnant and should farrow in the next 48hrs or so. Perfect timing for the freezing store coming in. We have a heat lamp and a piglets board up but I don't have high hopes for this litter. The temps may just be to cold. We are putting in a second light and may try to close off the heat lamp area some to retain more heat. Even with 2 lamps it is only going to warm about 30F above whatever temp it is in the barn. Foretasted temps this weekend are 10F and 8F...thats the high. Piglets should be around 90F.


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## Bruce

Sorry about the Hereford, you did all you could.

I've never done anything with baby pigs so this could be just stupid but ... could you put down a few heating pads for them to sleep on along with the heat lamps overhead?


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Sorry about the Hereford, you did all you could.
> 
> I've never done anything with baby pigs so this could be just stupid but ... could you put down a few heating pads for them to sleep on along with the heat lamps overhead?



Thank you

It's not stupid they sell basically pig heating pads for farrow crates. The problem with normal heating pads is they are not ment to be by water/moisture and piglets chew on everything so the electric shock risk is pretty high. The commercial ones are a plastic, thick rubber or carbon fiber pad vs the people ones that just have that thin rubber cover.

https://goo.gl/images/xVGrMx


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Nope, once you have it you check it off the "to do" list and just use it.


And one of the things I take more and more notice of, are the number of projects, jobs, and purchases that aren't an 'upward move'. 
Waterline blew off my waterwell a few months ago, and I went to repair it and found the 75 gallon (almost 700 lbs) tank's pad  had settled due to all the rainfall we had been getting. A 1 1/2" PVC fitting had cracked and then broke. Spent the better part of a day cutting loose all the other piping, removing the tank, digging the topsoil out, putting down a good gravelpack in place of it,leveling the pad and then putting it all back together. Wife said "Well, you got that fixed up pretty quick."

Me: "Yeah, all that, just to put us right back where we were yesterday. In ag, if you aren't one step ahead, you're 2 steps behind."


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## farmerjan

Boy, if that ain't the truth anymore.


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## Baymule

I am so sorry that you lost your Hereford girl.  

a rather delicate question; when everything is so frozen, what do you do with the body of a dead animal? 

It doesn't sound good for the litter either. That gives me a sinking feeling in my gut, can just imagine what you feel like.


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## Latestarter

SO sorry MM... that's a terrible loss. I hope the litter makes it with all that you're trying to do to help save it.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I am so sorry that you lost your Hereford girl.
> 
> a rather delicate question; when everything is so frozen, what do you do with the body of a dead animal?
> 
> It doesn't sound good for the litter either. That gives me a sinking feeling in my gut, can just imagine what you feel like.



Well Bay that is possibly a taboo question for most but a pretty logical question to me. It honestly depends on the dead animal, size, pet vs livestock. 

Large livestock is taken to the back of the property and basically given to nature, we have a lot of coyotes, foxes, birds, etc that benefit. By spring when everything finally thaws there usually isnt much of anything left, maybe a few bones that were not taken off yet.

Smaller livestock are "buried" in the burn pile, so poultry or baby/very young livestock. It may sound bad to some but it is the safest way to take care of small dead livestock that ensure you don't later find tiny body parts laying around which I would find horrifying.

As far as pets....I will get to that in my next post.


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## misfitmorgan

The weekend was horrible for us. Lots of bad and a tiny bit of good.

First off we lost Fate yesterday. She has seemed to struggle since her mother was separated from her, i held hope she just needed longer to adjust and putting the new girls with her would help. She did walk around with them some but mostly stayed on her own. We wormed and drenched all the kids/young goats but it didnt seem to make much difference to Fate. Sunday DH moved Fate, Latte, and Espresso into the barn because they were showing signs of severe cold stress and depression. They were put in their own pen with a hay feeder full of hay, grain and plenty of water. All of them were hunched up from the cold but everyone went immediately to the grain and ate it then the hay. When DH Left the barn about 30 minutes later he said they seems to be thawing out and acting fine, standing more normal, etc. Yesterday DH and our friend Tommy went out to do chores and found Fate dead, Latte and Espresso seemed fine.

In other news Greg the new Ram that came with the mutts was laying Dead in the pasture Sunday morning. Other then being an older ram we have no idea why. He had good weight and no obvious signed of why he died.

I will say it was extremely cold here, Saturday night it was -27F with windchill, Sunday night it was -15F with windchill. Maybe thats the cause, I really don't know. We also lost 2 chickens to the cold, seems they decided to roost in a evergreen tree outside instead of in the 2 story and the cold was to much for them.

Sunday we also lost Lucas. Lucas was our elderly weiner dog. DH picked him out at 3 days old and took him home at 6 weeks old, he has been with that dog constantly from that day on. That 12lb weiner dog was the best hunting dog DH ever owned and his constant companion for almost 14yrs. DH is taking it very hard, I don't blame him. I loved that little dog too 

To finish answering Bay, Lucas was "buried" on a funeral pyre. Yes DH made a tiny pyre like the vikings used to, wrapped Lucas in a white tea towel and set the works on fire. Pets get extra care because they are pets, not that they are more loved just that they are more connected to us. My little old dog who we lost in the summer was buried at the head of two trails on our property because she loved to explore and wander off. Rose is buried in the Orchard under the Apple tree she liked to lay under in the summer. Rocky is also buried in the Orchard because it seems like a peaceful spot for him.

It seems like this house is bent on getting rid of our dogs. I know that's insane but i've never in my life lost so many dogs in such a short period of time. We lost Rocky to a seizure, We lost Rose and Girly girl to some sort of poison/toxin, now we have lost Lucas as well. Stella was re-homed to a friend and Boss went back to my sister-in-law. 

The slightly good news. No babies yet. We have 2.5 weeks of miserable below freezing for the most part, then we should be in the clear as far as lambs/kids/piglets dying at birth from cold. I doubt the hereford will make it that long but i'm hoping, if she does it's still going to be tough going for the piglets.

Also the heater in my car broke, got a new resistor and is still not working right.


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## Wehner Homestead

I thought I’d answer with what we do here too. Pets (dogs/cats,) chickens, and baby livestock are placed in plastic feed sacks and put on a heavy duty shelf out of reach of the dogs to be buried with the thaw. Whenever that may be. Depending on the year, we have several bodies to dispose of at a time and other times we have none. 

Large carcasses...we bury dead calves, goats of all sizes here. Like when the bull died, we call the “dead wagon.” They are turned into fertilizer. Saves us from digging a hole that large no matter the weather.


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## Wehner Homestead

@misfitmorgan I’m so sorry! We lost so much last year! It was just one loss after another. It seemed like the hits just kept coming.


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## misfitmorgan

Wehner Homestead said:


> @misfitmorgan I’m so sorry! We lost so much last year! It was just one loss after another. It seemed like the hits just kept coming.



The past 2 yrs are just 1 good thing 5 bad things..over and over. We get over one thing and then wham here is the next, this weekend we didnt even have time to breath. Even our foster daughter was like omg there are dead animals all over. Greg the sheep was waiting outside of the pasture fence to be taken out back(he has to much wool to burn), the two chickens were laying in front of the barn waiting to go to the burn pile, and lucas was wrapped in a blanket on our loveseat waiting for his pyre. Poor kid.

Hopefully things get better for all of us and we have a good year ahead. 2019 isnt the best so far.


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## greybeard

misfitmorgan said:


> Large livestock is taken to the back of the property and basically given to nature, we have a lot of coyotes, foxes, birds, etc that benefit. By spring when everything finally thaws there usually isnt much of anything left, maybe a few bones that were not taken off yet.
> 
> Smaller livestock are "buried" in the burn pile, so poultry or baby/very young livestock. It may sound bad to some but it is the safest way to take care of small dead livestock that ensure you don't later find tiny body parts laying around which I would find horrifyin



Pretty much how it is done here as well. Even tho we don't have a frozen tundra type winter climate, the indigenous critters seem to do a good job of cleaning everything up and rather quickly too.

Sometimes I'll burn one if I have reason to believe a communicable disease may have been present but usually not.


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## Latestarter

Really sorry for all your recent losses MM... Hopefully when all the new babies start arriving it will help offset and give you something nice to concentrate on.


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## promiseacres




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## misfitmorgan

Thanks guys


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## misfitmorgan

Atm I'm kind of terrified that they are going to lamb outside and we will have dead lambs. Dh suggested putting all the sheep in the barn too but there isnt much room in there for all of that. The pig stalls and duck pen take up half the barn already and the jugs are suppose to go on the other side. He is thinking it would give all the babies the best shot though because that many stock in a mostly closed building will help it stay warmer. The stock that is in there now will generally keep it 10-15F warmer then outside.

It would only be for a few weeks so I am considering it. We need to build jugs, we have 11 that could go at anytime and 1 due the 15th, the other 3 wont be until later on. I think we can fit 11 jugs around the perimeter of the barn and still leave the center of the main floor open, that would work in theroy but its going to be tight quarters and we only have 3 heat lamps and one barrel to turn into a heat barrel. We will have to see how things go. We may need to change plans and make a lamb creep area and a kid creep area with lights/heat barrel and leave moms on the main floor, only thing then is i would worry about kids/lambs getting beat up.

A lot to think about. If we do bring the sheep in all the females are getting their butts sheared esp the mutts.


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## Bruce

Not much of anything to like @misfitmorgan! I can't even imagine losing 2 animals that close together let alone all that you lost. Things just GOTTA get better!


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## Baymule

The livestock is a hit. Losing animals is never easy, you wonder where you could have done something different, how you could have prevented the loss. If one has enough acreage, we haul dead animals to the back for buzzards and coyotes to clean up. Small animals get buried. We only have 8 acres, and have 2 old senior horses. When they go, we'll probably have to have them hauled off and buried. 

Lucas. I would take it hard too. Lucas was your DH's best buddy, his friend. You get a lot of family history wrapped up in a dog over 14 years. I bawled my eyes out when ours died, and still miss them. I know there is an empty place in the house without Lucas. I am so sorry that he is gone. I like the funeral pyre idea. You can't bury him and you want to honor him, so that is the next best thing. I get it. 

I would definitely get the sheep in the barn. Those lambs would be frozen when they hit the ground. I cannot imagine such temperatures. How in the world do you function in such extreme weather? Girlfriend I am keeping my southern self right where I'm at! I'll take the 100* over -27* any day! I can pay the electricity bill for air conditioner, buy I don't know how I would cope with your winters! 

This is me last winter, it was 14 degrees, I was bundled up to go out the feed the animals. We got 2 inches of snow. It was gone in 4 days. Now, I can handle THAT kind of winter!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> The livestock is a hit. Losing animals is never easy, you wonder where you could have done something different, how you could have prevented the loss. If one has enough acreage, we haul dead animals to the back for buzzards and coyotes to clean up. Small animals get buried. We only have 8 acres, and have 2 old senior horses. When they go, we'll probably have to have them hauled off and buried.
> 
> Lucas. I would take it hard too. Lucas was your DH's best buddy, his friend. You get a lot of family history wrapped up in a dog over 14 years. I bawled my eyes out when ours died, and still miss them. I know there is an empty place in the house without Lucas. I am so sorry that he is gone. I like the funeral pyre idea. You can't bury him and you want to honor him, so that is the next best thing. I get it.
> 
> I would definitely get the sheep in the barn. Those lambs would be frozen when they hit the ground. I cannot imagine such temperatures. How in the world do you function in such extreme weather? Girlfriend I am keeping my southern self right where I'm at! I'll take the 100* over -27* any day! I can pay the electricity bill for air conditioner, buy I don't know how I would cope with your winters!
> 
> This is me last winter, it was 14 degrees, I was bundled up to go out the feed the animals. We got 2 inches of snow. It was gone in 4 days. Now, I can handle THAT kind of winter!



The picture of you bundled up is great! I do know we have thicker blood, it helps with the cold. As far as dealing with it, you just do because there isnt another choice. To do chores i wear rubber barn boots, my old jeans, and old winter coat, sometimes knit clothes. If its really windy out i will put my hood up to keep my bangs out of my eyes/face. The faster you move the warmer you stay and the quicker chores get done, once you're in the barn and there is no wind it's not really bad.

The pyre was DH's idea and i think it was a good one. He said lucas deserved more then being stuck in the ground. As far as burying things, it is possible in winter but you need equipment or a dang good reason because for the first several feet its all frozen. We did once in the past make a large bonfire which we let burn for several hours then put it out and dug where it had been...that works we got down 2ft before we hit frozen ground again.

This winter thankfully has been mild, last winter was too. I love the mild winters. Those sheep need to cross their legs, we are building pens but it takes time, DH and I are both on overtime atm.


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## Baymule

I got a feeling that next year you will keep the ram away...…..until you can time lambing for spring.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I got a feeling that next year you will keep the ram away...…..until you can time lambing for spring.



For marketing and breeding we need them born in February, March at the latest. Even lambs born in March are not sellable to the 4h market. Spring here is not until April which also makes the kids/lambs only 7 months old when winter hits and they have a very hard time with it. We usually get our last big winter storm/freak storm around Mothers day. 

Our biggest problem is needing a better set up. Jugs, creeps, more heat lamps/barrels, etc. We really just need a barn for just goats and one for just sheep and a few pastures. We will get there. The mutt sheep we have no control over breeding anyhow, since they came likely bred.

We also need a chicken coop and a duck house and buck/ram houses/sheds...and ...and ...and


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> This is me last winter, it was 14 degrees, I was bundled up to go out the feed the animals.


14°F is nothing to sneeze at even here Bay! Most often if it is below 20°F I'll toss on my Carhartt insulated coveralls. Above that if I'm not staying out long, jeans and my Carhartt jacket (non insulated) are fine. In either case I have my insulated rubber boots that go up almost to my knees.  Even with the jacket that leaves only about 2' of jeans exposed.


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## Baymule

@Bruce, my 14 degrees is an unusually cold winter, even so, it only lasts a few days. Then it goes back above freezing. Right now we are in the low 20's at night and have been the past few nights, above freezing in the 40's during the day. It's warming up to the 50's day and 30's nights. 

@misfitmorgan count your blessings! You HAVE a barn! We got a doublewide with not even a fence, overgrown, people drove by here and didn't even know that there was a house here. We moved in on February 14, 2015 and it snowed 11 days later. I felt bad for the horses, there was no shelter for them. It rain continually after that, enough that my son filled the 300 gallon galvanized tank when he brought the horses up here and I didn't add more water until May.  We had a barn built that fall/winter. 

Sure, you need more and better shelters, but it will all come in time.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> @Bruce, my 14 degrees is an unusually cold winter, even so, it only lasts a few days. Then it goes back above freezing. Right now we are in the low 20's at night and have been the past few nights, above freezing in the 40's during the day. It's warming up to the 50's day and 30's nights.
> 
> @misfitmorgan count your blessings! You HAVE a barn! We got a doublewide with not even a fence, overgrown, people drove by here and didn't even know that there was a house here. We moved in on February 14, 2015 and it snowed 11 days later. I felt bad for the horses, there was no shelter for them. It rain continually after that, enough that my son filled the 300 gallon galvanized tank when he brought the horses up here and I didn't add more water until May.  We had a barn built that fall/winter.
> 
> Sure, you need more and better shelters, but it will all come in time.



Yes we do at least have shelters of some fashion even if not ideal.

I'm really hoping this is the last of the bad news i need to post for awhile. Hereford had her litter, 5 piglets yesterday at some time before we got home from work, no survivors. I assume it was to cold for them, it was 34F yesterday here but she may have had them overnight when it was anywhere between -12 to 22f.

We have decided to move the sheep into the shop, so more stall/pen building will commence. Those mutt sheep will not use the shelter, if they have lambs outside and refuse to use the shelter the lambs will die. We got home yesterday and there were the mutt sheep outside, with a foot of snow around each of them. They were literally in snow holes.


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## Baymule

I am so sorry about the Hereford litter.  You know how much I admire and love those beautiful Herefords. What a disappointment. Yes you have shelter, but it needs improvements to make it work for you and the animals.  I cannot fathom what it is like to raise animals in such cold temperatures. 

Your sheep are building igloos.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I am so sorry about the Hereford litter.  You know how much I admire and love those beautiful Herefords. What a disappointment. Yes you have shelter, but it needs improvements to make it work for you and the animals.  I cannot fathom what it is like to raise animals in such cold temperatures.
> 
> Your sheep are building igloos.



It does suck, if it had been a larger litter they would have had a better shot. She was a first timer so her litter was only 5 piglets which is really really small.

It did kind of look like igloos


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## Bruce

Wow, WAY too much death. 
I do hope this is the last of it for you.


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## Latestarter

So sorry Misfit. Time for some better news/results.


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## misfitmorgan

This is Espresso



 



Left to right is Latte('s butt), the June ram lamb, and Espresso




Latte, June ram lamb, and Espresso




They are hard to take pictures of because the girls wanna be in your face. The june ram lamb is not really growing, not sure if it is because winter came when he was only 4 months old or he just isnt genetically very good. He is the first lamb of i think 308(or 310), he was pretty small are birth. He is now 7 months old and should be 150+lbs....he is maybe 80-90lbs. We are also not power feeding him though and until he was moved with the girls he did have to compete with the adult herd for grain/food.

The girls are still looking very hippy even after worming so i'm concerned about what is going on there.


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## Bruce

Maybe the ram lamb is just a runt?


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Maybe the ram lamb is just a runt?



I dont think so just because his dad and mom are both huge. Both of our rams and 310 and 308(triplets sisters) are our biggest sheep. People see them and can't believe how big they are. In pictures you just can't tell how big the sheep are.

Guess anything is possible though


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## misfitmorgan

So I guess I better put this here. I am not really wanting to but if I am gone for awhile I want you guys to know why and that I personally am probly ok.

So you all remember that my mom had breast cancer, she refused treatment. The tumor ruptured and she had an emergency mastectomy, the doctor told her if that was the only cancer in her body she was then cancer free and to go get some tests done to check. She of course didnt get the tests.

Fast forward to about 6 months ago(i think) she went to the doctor because she thought her had pneumonia, so they did an x-ray and told her to go to an oncologist asap because she has masses in her lungs. She didn't because she didn't want chemo or radiation.

A few weeks ago my mom had a seizure at work, and then a second on the way to the hospital in the ambulance. They ran some tests at the local hospital and then put her in an ambulance to a big hospital down state because they saw masses in her brain and her brain was swelled which is what caused the seizures. She was in the big hospital for 3 days while they did a bunch of tests.

The short version is my mother has lung cancer, bone cancer and brain cancer. She is still refusing chemo or radiation. They have her on anti-seizure medication and a medicine to keep her brain from swelling for now. During the seizures she also did something to chip her hip bone so she is still healing from that but it does seem to be healing. The diagnosis was 6 weeks to 6 months without treatment before she dies, she refused to let them take biopsies to get a better diagnosis. My mother is 58yrs old, I am not ready to lose her yet.

In late December we found out my sister-in-law also has cancer. A very aggressive form of cancer in her genitals. They did surgery to remove the tumors, then did more surgery and more surgery. She has now had 5 surgeries to remove tumors since the beginning of January. She is not healing correctly and the tumors are growing back to the same size of bigger then they were before removal within about 2 weeks of surgery. They want to give her chemo and radiation as soon as she heals from surgery but they can't get her to heal because the tumor growth is so rapid. The prognosis for her is also not good. She is 39yrs old and was the wife of my late brother.

These things plus our foster kid and work is the main reason we have not been able to get things accomplished on the farm we we should and is likely contributing to our losses this season. I do know other people in our area are having large losses in well, I don't think all this has helped. This has also eaten up almost all of the money we did get back on taxes this year which was suppose to go to fencing, trailer, dozer parts, etc....so we will have to figure that out still.


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## frustratedearthmother

I am so sorry.


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## Mike CHS

You have my thoughts and prayers as you go through this.  I know it isn't easy to interact on the web when your life is filled with this kind of trauma.


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## CntryBoy777

Oh MM..........that is really difficult news to deal with, especially with everything else that has taken place.....I understand your position and the need to be "sidelined" for a while as things are sorted out and dealt with.....if we can do anything for ya just let us know.....our thoughts and prayers are certainly with ya.....hope ya can find comfort, strength, and peace as things progress.....


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## promiseacres

so very sorry


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## Bruce

I am SO sorry! Really heavy burden to bear and you've been doing it month after month after month. Please take care of yourselves, I wish there was something I could do to help.


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## farmerjan

@misfitmorgan ;  I am sorry for all the difficulties in your life.  I can in one way understand your mom but also have a hard time in another way because she has hurt and is continuing to hurt all that love her.  There are no easy answers for you.  Her refusing treatments and tests has basically signed her own death warrant and it is very unfair that you are having to hurt and take it on the chin because of her decisions. I am thinking that she may have had the idea that if she didn't "acknowledge it" it would go away.... ignorance is bliss?  Since at this point it doesn't sound like there is  any  hope for a better prognosis, the only thing I can say is I am truly sorry for you.  The situation with your SIL sounds like it is more sudden and that she is trying to find a way to stop it and get better.  My prayers for her.
I think that your animals are one of your "safety valves" as far as being able to go "lose yourself" and put aside the stresses for a little bit when you are with the animals.  However, they also may be contributing to your stress due to your not being able to do for them the way they need and that you want and have planned to do.  It is always hard, but maybe you need to step back from some of it?  I know that one time I had to make the decision to sell off most of my stuff, and it was the hardest decision, but in the long run it was the best thing I could do.  It turned out to be the right thing and made it easier for me to address the issues that were more pressing.  Then when I was able to get back into it, I also could do things better and right for both me and the animals.  It might be the better thing for you to downsize a bit for the time being, and be able to cope with everything else.  
I certainly am not trying to tell you what to do. Just making a suggestion from someone who has had to make difficult decisions, and felt the relief when there were less burdens requiring my time and energy. 
Regardless of what you do, my thoughts and prayers are with you and yours.


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## Baymule

I cannot speak for your Mother. Was/is her decisions not to have treatment right or wrong? I don't have the answer. I wish I did. I wish I could give you a big hug and tell you that everything will be ok, but we both know it isn't ok. For her sake, I hope the pain can be controlled. 

What a swirl of emotions. I know you love your Mom and her decisions have to be very hard for you. My Mom was 92 when she died, my husband and I were with her, holding her hand, as she left us. It hit me like a brick that I was now the "old" generation. I was alone, both my parents were gone. I am a lot older than you and it hurt for my Mom to be gone. I can only imagine what it must be like for you. 

If you need to vent, shout, cry or whatever, feel free to PM me. I will listen.


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## B&B Happy goats

MM as a end of life caregiver,  retired, i worked along side  and with hospice... in many states as i traveled to where i was needed....please may i say in the kindest of way , from the bottom of my heart...that although the treatments she has refused, and the on going tests.......she will have better quality of life ...rather than going through all the treatments for the same ending...please consider hospice care, ....pallative care is comfort care so she can Live her time comfortably......chemo, radiation is really hard to bare....then most peope get all happy when the dr says they are in remission....then boom...its back. ....Your mom made the same choice that i would make in her situation..love her for being strong enough to take the right path for herself on this journy.  I understand its confusing, i understand your upset with her choices......i know your heart is breaking , we are all her for you....take care of yourself also, you need your  stregnth too  barbara


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## Wehner Homestead

I wish I could hug you in person! That’s a lot to deal with at once. I know you feel like it’s one hit after another but I pray things turn around soon. We appreciate you updating us! I may post once in awhile to let you know you’ve been on my mind.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you all for your kind comments and understanding.



farmerjan said:


> @misfitmorgan ;
> It is always hard, but maybe you need to step back from some of it?


We have been discussing lightening the animal load for now. We have not decided on anything definite other then getting rid of the "extra" animals. 
Pink pig aka Laverne needs to go she is scheduled to be butchered but it keeps getting put off. 
We have the runt ram lamb and the little buck that needs to be butchered. 
Mrs Pig the pot-belly pig is scheduled to go down the road or be butchered by our friend 
We may put Sarah's gilt that we kept back for a breeder up for sale.
I already have 310s ram lamb and the bottle ram lamb listed for sale.



B&B Happy goats said:


> MM as a end of life caregiver,  retired, i worked along side  and with hospice... in many states as i traveled to where i was needed....please may i say in the kindest of way , from the bottom of my heart...that although the treatments she has refused, and the on going tests.......she will have better quality of life ...rather than going through all the treatments for the same ending...please consider hospice care, ....pallative care is comfort care so she can Live her time comfortably......chemo, radiation is really hard to bare....then most peope get all happy when the dr says they are in remission....then boom...its back. ....Your mom made the same choice that i would make in her situation..love her for being strong enough to take the right path for herself on this journy.  I understand its confusing, i understand your upset with her choices......i know your heart is breaking , we are all her for you....take care of yourself also, you need your  stregnth too  barbara



My mother has worked in nursing homes for almost 30yrs, she has seen first hand what chemo and radiation does to people esp after many rounds. Mom has refused hospice care for now(and forever really) I promised my mother many years ago that when the time came and she needed that kind of help I would take care of her so she will get little to no hospice care and she will never go into a nursing home. I helped my mother take care of my grandma during the end of her life as well with minimal hospice care. For now she is still able to take care of herself and isnt in to much pain. Since they legalized Marijuana here in michigan she has been using RSO oil, she said it really is one of the only things that cuts down the pain level efficiently...even better then the pain meds they gave her.I do understand my mothers decision on my logical side I have seen people go thru chemo and radiation, I know what it does.  My step-mother did many rounds of chemo and went from a healthy appearing 5'8" 152lb woman to 87lbs on her death bed by the time she was done with chemo rounds over the course of 5yrs and the doctors were trying to get her to do another round of chemo. So logically yes I get it, emotionally it's makes me mad because it feels like she isnt trying to fight it with "proven" medicine and I don't want to lose my mom ever let alone when i am only 35yrs old.


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## misfitmorgan

In other news Oreo seems to be not doing well. We do not know if she ate something she shouldnt have or what. Her famcha and weight seem fine but she appears weak and has scours. DH moved her into a stall in the barn, she is still eating but we really can't figure out what is wrong with her.


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## B&B Happy goats

You are a amazing  young woman, my heart goes out to you


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## misfitmorgan

B&B Happy goats said:


> You are a amazing  young woman, my heart goes out to you



Thank you

While reading thru mike's thread I saw SBC mention people having problems with coccidia and with Oreo having scours I think we will go ahead and treat for coccidia as we have not done it since last spring. Since Oreo has a good famcha and atm reasonable/good weight but scours I am leaning towards it either being something she ate/got into or coccidia. We will be worming in the next week or two since thats what our vet recommended last spring because of how wet it was out and this year it is the same if not worse and forecasts are for a wetter then usual spring with some flooding.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Her famcha and weight seem fine but she appears weak and has scours.


I'm pretty sure I read in Mike's journal that he hasn't found the famacha score to be a particularly good indicator and doing fecals is best. 

Good luck!


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## Mike CHS

Anymore, I assume coccidia if it comes all of a sudden.  I have a problem because I cut grass in a bagger and they go from hay to some really lush winter growth but I only give them enough to keep them happy.  In most cases they adjust to it really well but coccidia meds don't do any harm.


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## Hens and Roos




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## misfitmorgan

Yeah I'm really thinking cocci because she was acting perfectly fine 4 days ago and then suddenly i noticed scours and thought well thats odd but it was more a passing thought, then the next day she didnt want to get up and move much. I honestly was thinking maybe she had pneumonia or just wasnt feeling well. We also did give them a small bit of second cut hay so I thought maybe that gave her scours. Last night she had no improvement but didnt seem worse, hopefully we are in time with the cocci treatment.

Also when DH went out to do chores last night he found Ivy in the pen with Oreo(Ivy jumped the gate) and Ivy was in there beating up on Oreo. He kicked Ivy out of the pen and put another board up over the gate which will hopefully keep Ivy out.


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## Bruce

Why is Ivy being mean to Oreo??


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Why is Ivy being mean to Oreo??



Cause Ivy is a bully and she saw little Oreo in a pen alone with a bunch of feed which she decided she wanted. I am thinking we may need to band Ivy's horns and see if we can get them off. The ends are getting very thin and she is using them against all the other livestock. I don't just mean butting them, she is trying to get them in their guts with an upward jerk of her head. Even the other goats are now letting her boss them around, Phoebe was the alpha. DH proposed cutting off the end of her horns so they are blunt and see if that helps.


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## Wehner Homestead

We had a meat x goat that we had to cull because she was getting dangerous for the other goats with her horns, killed two goat kids that weren’t hers, and tried to use her horns on DH. She’d beem here for 3 years and all of that happened in 3 mos. She got a one way ticket off the farm!


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## misfitmorgan

We are going to have to do something. Ivy is my favorite goat and has produced very healthy strong kids both times she was bred, has good parasite resistance, keep condition well for a dairy goat, and is super people friendly. She is a pain in the butt cause she jumps fences and gates and now she is using her horns on the others. DH hates her. Ivy was/is our yard goat and it is pretty hilarious seeing people get scared when she comes running towards them like some kind of alien dog.


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## misfitmorgan

Sadly I have to report that we lost Oreo. It was either thursday night or friday while we were at work. We are sure not sure what it was, if it was cocci we didn't get the treatment going fast enough for her I guess. Everyone else is being treated for coccidiosis so hopefully that takes care of everyone else. We planned on getting everyone wormed over the weekend but that didnt happen. We had a cold snap the high was 31F and we got 2 inches of snow. 

We have plans to make a pen in the garage corner for the bottle lambs until the smaller one is taking solid food better then they will move to a pen in the barn. I bought some more layers about 2 weeks ago. 5 hens three isa browns 2 black sex links from a guy at work who didnt have time for them anymore. Our TSC has had chicks on sale for $1 each and ducklings for $2 for 2 weeks. So we went on Saturday to get some and wouldn't ya know they were all gone and they had new pekin ducklings at $5.99 each. So hopefully they get more in and put them on clearance  I want khaki Campbells.

Atm we have 3 white leghorns, 1 buff orphington, 3 isa browns, 2 black sexlinks, 1 silver laced wyndotte, and 2 mutt chickens. We also have a pair of toulouse geese and 1 pekin, 1 rouen, 1 muscovy and 3 mule ducks.

I have really high hopes this spring of getting a poultry house of some sort build so the poultry can have their own place.


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## promiseacres

sorry you lost Oreo.  Am hoping we are through the last of winter weather... we had flurries and a cold snap too...


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## misfitmorgan

promiseacres said:


> sorry you lost Oreo.  Am hoping we are through the last of winter weather... we had flurries and a cold snap too...



We knew Oreo's odds of recovery weren't good but we tried. She was on the cocci course of treatment, got wormed, got vitamin B shot, iron, probiotic paste, vitamin E and selenium paste, and we even gave her some penicillin just in case. Threw everything at her and it just didnt help. She did perk up some the day after we put her in her own pen but then the next day was worse so we kinda knew but just kept on.


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## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear


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## RollingAcres

Sorry to hear of your loss...


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## misfitmorgan

It is frustrating i really don't know what killed 2 of 2 and now no, for sure on Oreo. I speculate it was cocci but really I don't know. I've never seen or heard of adult livestock dying from cocci and never would have even thought about it if SBC had not mentioned it on Mike's thread. I normally only ever treated kids/lambs for the typical cocci blooms and moms got treated by proxy because they had the same water access as their kids.


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## CntryBoy777

That is a shame about Oreo........it'll get better as the weather warms and ya are able to get started on your improvements....I know ya will like the Khaki Campbells they are so entertaining and prolific at laying eggs....


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## Baymule

Your post about Ivy reminded me of @Southern by choice thread about Millie. Millie actually sharpened her horns on cinder blocks and bullied all the other goats. 

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/de-horned-2yr-old-doe-week-3-update.28257/#post-357682

Really sorry about Oreo.


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## Southern by choice

So sorry you lost her.  

@Baymule  Millie is a whole different goat. She is great. Best thing we did was getting those horns off.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Your post about Ivy reminded me of @Southern by choice thread about Millie. Millie actually sharpened her horns on cinder blocks and bullied all the other goats.
> 
> https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/de-horned-2yr-old-doe-week-3-update.28257/#post-357682
> 
> Really sorry about Oreo.



I saw her whole post about millie. Ivy is not sharpening her horns they are just thin and have some sort of broken off layers on the ends from her fighting with the others over the years. Until this pregnancy she was not the herd alpha and was always picked on and beat up on. Honestly I think Phoebe is just to pregnant to care atm, she is normally the alpha.

Losing oreo sucks but we are moving forward of course. Thank you all.


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## misfitmorgan

On a side note I drove thru a literal blizzard to get to work today 
Lovely Spring here in Northern Michigan 

I've been throwing around the idea of leaving the current pen up and using it for weaned kids and anyone who is smaller/younger. So Latte, Espresso, The Buck, Charlotte, Duke, Bottle lamb, and runt ram would be who was in it atm/this spring/summer for example. At least until we get more pastures/pens put up and we could put the boys in that pasture in the fall perhaps until we are ready to breed. It's a thought, i dont know how DH will feel about it, he probly won't like it. He wants our backyard back. I mean we have 2 literal acres of yard but he wants that specific section back for some reason


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## misfitmorgan

Last night I saw out black/white mule duck take an egg and roll it under herself in the nesting box. So i think we have a broody mule duck 

Also noticed our chicken egg shells are really thin, so I need to figure out how to give them calcium. This is the group that are in the barn...with goats, sheep, and geese so not sure how.

I have called USDA 4 times now to get a new premises ID number but no return call yet. I really need to order tags but they are taking forever to return my call. Last year we tagged with our old number(naughty) but we only tagged i think 5 or 6 total so meh. 
Now we need to tag the lambs/kids and the mutts because as soon as we shear there will be no real way to tell the 3 "brown" (black after shearing i am betting) mutt sheep apart. The only way to tell the 4th brown one apart is that she is the smallest and has the least wool growth cause she was last springs lamb. I am marketing the boy lambs so they will need tags before they can leave.


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## misfitmorgan

Also...anyone who does CDT.

Do you use a new syringe for each animal? Like if you are doing 10 kids/lambs, you use 10 syringes/needles, 5 adults 5 syringes/needles etc. I think they should each get their own, DH says he doesn't think thats how you do it and you should be able to use one for each session


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## Mike CHS

We use a different one for each animal for shots. For drenching with other things we will use the syringe several times.


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## frustratedearthmother

If you are reusing the same needle that means that after each injection you’re putting a contaminated needle into your bottle of vaccine.  Doesn’t sound like a good idea to me...


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## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> We use a different one for each animal for shots. For drenching with other things we will use the syringe several times.


We only have one drenching syringe so we do reuse that.



frustratedearthmother said:


> If you are reusing the same needle that means that after each injection you’re putting a contaminated needle into your bottle of vaccine.  Doesn’t sound like a good idea to me...


He doesnt want to put it back in the bottle. He means I ordered 5ml syringes with needles. He wants to fill the syringe with say CDT and give 5 injections to 5 critters then get a new syringe. He thinks it's needlessly wasteful to do one ml and toss the syringe. His other point is some of the (old style)auto-injectors reuse the needle on several animals so whats the problem, i told him well there is probly a reason they re-did them to use disposable needles 

I'm on the once and done team but DH continues to try to sneak more then one critter per syringe/needle...esp since we are now running low.


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## misfitmorgan

I guess USDA must have been reading my journal  i got a phone call and an email before 3pm yesterday so I have my new premises ID


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## Bruce

Seems like at the very least you would want to wipe the needle down with alcohol before using it on the next animal. That doesn't mean there can't be some "suck back" into the syringe from the previous animal. Can you get syringes with replaceable needles?


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## B&B Happy goats

misfitmorgan said:


> I saw her whole post about millie. Ivy is not sharpening her horns they are just thin and have some sort of broken off layers on the ends from her fighting with the others over the years. Until this pregnancy she was not the herd alpha and was always picked on and beat up on. Honestly I think Phoebe is just to pregnant to care atm, she is normally the alpha.
> 
> Losing oreo sucks but we are moving forward of course. Thank you all.



So sorry about you loss of your girls, .....my goats are horned also,   I cut the tips off them and file them for a "softer edge" it seems to help around here...just a thought you may want to consider


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## misfitmorgan

We did discuss taking off the ends of their horns....it is on the short list to get done.


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## misfitmorgan

We had a busy weekend. 

We cleaned out the bottom of the 2-story and set it up better for the chickens. They have some roosts(old headgates), some nice nest boxes, a spot to dust bath, and their feeder and waterer are hanging from the ceiling. 

Then we cleaned and scraped the whole barn floor except two pig pens which we will be doing today. The floor was a wreck from the flooding which has I believe finally stopped but the floor has had standing water on it for over a month that we just couldnt get to go away. We tried more hay, wood chips, trying to scrap it out the doors, opening the doors to let the wind in, i mean short of trying to take a mop out there nothing seemed to help. We gave the goats and sheep solid top pallets to stand/lay/eat off of to have a dry place.

Today we will putting down barn lime and then working on more pens in the barn. We also started trimming hooves, big Boys are horrible. He has had pretty much full access to shell corn all winter so they grew out crazy fast. Ivy needs a tiny trim and Phoebe will get a trim after she kids. The sheep will all get done when we shear but they still look good.

I bought a Hardy Kiwi to plant and hope it does well. I also have strawberry starts that i forgot about from last year...i dont think they are any good now  and some Delilahs to plant. Rhubarb is finally crowning again after being killed back by frost/snow twice. We have decided to cut all the grapes back to just 2-4 canes each....because over the winter it seems all but about 8ft of the arbor collapsed/fell over.



 
You can see it in the background of this picture. You can also see the butt head goats stripped the bark off two branches on that poor apple tree.


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## misfitmorgan

These are just cause I had them.


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## Baymule

I was going to admire your pallet barricades until you pointed out that the sheep used them as ladders to eat the bark off the apple tree. LOL LOL Your barn may have flooded, but I still admire it, it looks great from the outside!


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## CntryBoy777

Might wanna plant several more apple trees to get them thru the winters....they will gladly "prune" them for ya and will supplement the winter hay.....


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I was going to admire your pallet barricades until you pointed out that the sheep used them as ladders to eat the bark off the apple tree. LOL LOL Your barn may have flooded, but I still admire it, it looks great from the outside!



Well if you notice it is pushed over against the tree because i didnt put t-posts in to hold it in place. Also it was the goats...sheep don't climb, least not mine. Thats not the barn either lol, its the 2 story...which just uses half for the chickens.



CntryBoy777 said:


> Might wanna plant several more apple trees to get them thru the winters....they will gladly "prune" them for ya and will supplement the winter hay.....



We still have 19 apple trees so i'm not to worried. That tree in fact is used for nothing but livestock apples so i'm not to upset. I don't know what kind of apples they are but they are mealy and dont have much apple flavor, small and roundish.


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## Baymule

19 apple trees……..I could only wish. LOL My sheep climb to reach low hanging branches, they love browse. One of them was trying to reach a branch one day, saw me and walked to me baa-baaing loudly. I got the message and pulled the branch down so she could reach it.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> 19 apple trees……..I could only wish. LOL My sheep climb to reach low hanging branches, they love browse. One of them was trying to reach a branch one day, saw me and walked to me baa-baaing loudly. I got the message and pulled the branch down so she could reach it.



Do they grow apples in texas? I always thought it would be to hot. My herd does the same thing to me, so I of course go hold the branch for for them. My herd is smart though they will stand on eat other to get "taller" then one pulls it down and the others help themselves.


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## Baymule

There are finally some varieties that will grow here. But in your area, you reap the benefits of apple trees being planted for hundreds of years, established trees and orchards, even if a bit neglected. Even livestock apples have value. 

My sheep follow me through the woods, snacking on the branches I pull down for them. The next year, they sprout back out, rinse, repeat. They love red cedar and elm the most.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> There are finally some varieties that will grow here. But in your area, you reap the benefits of apple trees being planted for hundreds of years, established trees and orchards, even if a bit neglected. Even livestock apples have value.
> 
> My sheep follow me through the woods, snacking on the branches I pull down for them. The next year, they sprout back out, rinse, repeat. They love red cedar and elm the most.



Yes but you have things like peach trees and pecan trees or are able to grow them and a lot of other tropical type fruits we cant..not to mention a much longer growing season. The ground here isnt even completely thawed yet. I do like orchards sadly many of the old orchards are just cut down because the trees are to far gone. No one wants to try to pick apples from a tree that is 40ft tall and the closest apple 9ft away from the ground. We have a Granny smith that needs most of the top cut off and branches grafted lower down. The tree is so tall DH can't even reach a single branch and he is 6'4" as well as bearing no fruit last year. The tree really needs heavily pruned back but it is going to be a dangerous job because of how overgrown it is. If it was anything other then granny smith or if i had another granny smith we would just cut it down.


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## misfitmorgan

Yesterday I cleaned a past due pig pen, the one that Sara's daughter and Mrs Pig shared. It got scraped, limed, bedded and then Sara was put in that pen. Sara is not to far from having piglets and is not in great condition, we didnt realize she was that far along. We also took Spot out of her pen and put her back in the big pen with Laverne and Backfire(boar). Then the hereford girl who is also bred but not as far along as Sara i dont think went into Spot's pen. And Sara's daughter and Mrs Pig went into the pen we had Oreo in. Spot pigs pen needs to be cleaned which I believe will get done tomorrow, I need a break for a day from shoveling,scraping and wheel barrowing.

So todays plan is to start building pens on the other side of the barn for the goats/sheep. Currently i am planning two larger pens. Then we also need to make a feed stall so the feed is kept separate from livestock even if they are on the main floor. We also have plans to build a poultry house of some fashion to house the chickens and ducks and geese so they are on their own and can properly lay eggs/brood/raise young while being protected from predators.

I also am hoping to get the mineral feeder fixed tonight for the outside pen. They keep ripping it off the wall so I(or DH) are going to build a wooden frame and screw it to the wall. We also need to move medium brown back to the outside pen.


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## Baymule

Pear trees are the homestead imitation apple tree here. We planted a pear tree 3 years ago, it is blooming for the first time now. I love home canned pears.  We also planted 2 peach trees, we got 4 peaches last year, I think the best I ever had. LOL They are loaded now, if we can keep the squirrels away from them.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Pear trees are the homestead imitation apple tree here. We planted a pear tree 3 years ago, it is blooming for the first time now. I love home canned pears.  We also planted 2 peach trees, we got 4 peaches last year, I think the best I ever had. LOL They are loaded now, if we can keep the squirrels away from them.



I'm hoping to take out some of the apple trees we dont actually like (not good for sauce, fresh, cider, pies) and add in some pear, peach, plum, nectarine, pawpaw, cherry, etc.
Red circles are apple trees, the green circle we thought was apple before it got leaves but its a cherry, and the blue is a mystery fruit tree. The cherry made about 5 cherries last year and they were horribly bitter, they look like rainier. The apple tree next to the mystery tree is our Pink Lady Tree.




This google pic is before we did any pruning the trees are actually not all running together now.


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## misfitmorgan

This is what I hope to work on tonight



The pink labels/pens are the new ones. The black labels/pens are what we already have.

We also need to still build ram/buck housing/pens separately. After we get pasture up they will be put into pasture rotation but for now they are going to have to be on dry lot. Captain and the Big ram can share a space but Big Boy needs his own. Lots to do but things are finally getting done so yay.

Also i found out yesterday that I am getting ad big big big raise at work so that will help with finances.

I also ordered new Q-flex 1.5" ear tags with our scrapie flock ID on them, Farm name, and management numbers front and back from Premier 1. They customize for free. I got 20 tags and a gun, that should get us thru this year and possibly part of next. Depending on how our livestock fair by 2020 kidding/lambing season i may be able to actually put the year on them like I want too. So the management number would be something like 20001, 20002, 20003 etc. So looking at ear tags would tell you age and sex depending on the ear it is in. I skipped the year prefix on this batch of tags because I have adult stock needing tags too and not to many kids/lambs to tag yet.


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## Mike CHS

Congratulations on the pay raise, that has to make you feel appreciated as well as help with the finances.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Also i found out yesterday that I am getting ad big big big raise at work so that will help with finances.



Raises these days are kinda rare, big ones more rare. Big big big really rare.


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## CntryBoy777

Just may be the "ray of light" y'all need to get ya back to "plane".....


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## misfitmorgan

I've been a contractor for this company for over 5yrs now and I have been working on this for that long. I finally am getting hired in directly to the company I actually work for. The raise I got was almost double my other 2 raises, so it was a shock.

I really hope it helps get us out from being upside down. It should. DH is also shopping for a new job where he would make about 33% more an hour which would also be a big help.


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## Bruce

Ah yes, the contractor thing. They have all their administrative overhead to pay so you get less. That company was probably getting paid for your services what the hiring company is now going to pay you directly.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Ah yes, the contractor thing. They have all their administrative overhead to pay so you get less. That company was probably getting paid for your services what the hiring company is now going to pay you directly.



I wish lol!! My company pays $50-75/hr to the contracting company for me, depending on the A/C I am working on. There are more benefits with the direct company though up to 160hrs paid vacation(if you go over once per quarter they will cut you a check to balance it out), 401k, Cadillac health insurance, 7 paid sick days/year, after working direct for 5yrs your health insurance premium is $0(can be single/spouse/family), salary pay, all paid holidays, two company gyms, etc.

Current contractor benefits are Obamacare basic insurance, 5 days paid vacation/yr, all paid holidays.


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## Baymule

Congrats on getting hired to be a real employee and getting better pay and benefits. That is worth celebrating, have a party! Invite all your friends, stick tools in their hands. Make ‘em work before they get any BBQ! LOL


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Congrats on getting hired to be a real employee and getting better pay and benefits. That is worth celebrating, have a party! Invite all your friends, stick tools in their hands. Make ‘em work before they get any BBQ! LOL



Shhh they don't know about the working part.....yet....we are planning a bbq for May


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## misfitmorgan

So DH and I were having a discussion(argument) about putting up electric fencing inside of our woven wire on our new pastures. I put electric around our current pen on the inside on 5inch stand offs and a lower wire on normal clips. Some point during winter a sheep/goat got on the other side of the wire and broke it off 3 insulators....I fixed it....then again broke it off 4 insulators in the same spot....fixed it.....broke it again..i turned off the fence and said screw it.

So DH says obviously electric doesnt work at all and there is no point wasting money on it. I want the animals to stay off the fence and told him I think our charger is just to old and needs replaced/properly grounded. The charger we have is approx 8+yrs old, is a solar fencer and the battery died on it so it is wired into a car battery(works fine i think) and the ground is not a real grounding rod because its current location is suppose to be a temporary pen. I told him I just dont think it is strong enough, it is like a strong static shock will make your finger tip numb for like 5 seconds and it is only running  approx 600ft of clean, new, clear wire. It's supposedly a half mile fencer so it is running less then 1/4 mile of its "normal" output, it should have no trouble.

So to that end what kind of fencer do you all use for sheep and goats? Distance, Joules/volts, etc? @Mike CHS 
@Baymule @Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer or anyone else!!


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## Mike CHS

We have ground rods in several places along our fence line and use a 75 mile AC charger.  I haven't seen any of our animals touch a fence more than once, including the two steers.  The new ram immediately went through it but that was our fault since it wasn't hot at the time and the ewes were in the next paddock.  Once I got him moved back and energized, his first touch taught him to stay away.  We run several hundred feet of netting and poly rope and have not had anyone challenge it.  On most days, my tester shows around 13000 volts which hurts as I can tell from personal experience.


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## Goat Whisperer

I would get a proper ground rod and try that first. Do you have a fence tester? Get one of those too! 

For small areas a .5 or 1 joule has been fine for us. If gives a good zap. Sheep, in our experience, have been much harder to fence.


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## Goat Whisperer

Also, I have never been much on solar chargers. Maybe it's just the type I've seen, but they never seem very "hot" and don't hold up well.

I love our patriot chargers. It is AC or DC. It has an adapter so you can do either.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you both for the info.

Our sheep actually are pretty easy on our fence. The goats seem to be the most destructive on it. I will see about getting a real grounding rod. The solar fencer is not my first choice either, Dh's farm with his ex-wife was 100% off-grid and thats where the fencer came from. We have plans(at some point) to run underground electric to wherever the sheep/goat buildings end up being built but until then we are kind of stuck with a solar fencer. I did use a solar fencer for my horses for many years and never had an issue but it was grounded corrected and was a 25 mile fencer i used for about 2.5  acres of pasture fenced with poly tape.

I know it doesnt do well on our electric net from premier, we have approximately 330ft of net which is not usable atm.


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## misfitmorgan

Other fun stuff.

Our hot water heater has been leaking on the basement floor for 2 weeks. The furnace died on Sunday. The deep well pump stopped working last night, luckily DH got it going again but it is a matter of time. The truck needs some pretty expensive work done on it and the trailblazer's transmission is going out 

Seems everything is failing, so we are going one day at a time. We have been keeping the house heated with the oven and a propane wall heater. Luckily outside temps are staying mostly in the 30F or higher area so keeping the house at 50-70f seems do-able.

DH got ripped the vinyl siding panels thats were covering the winters off two of the window on the shop which makes things much nicer and lets in daylight. He also dropped the top of the garage door that is on the end by the house(its not on tracks just nailed over the garage door size hole) so we have some nice cross-ventilation going and it will be good for summer to keep it cooler in there. We also are working on two new pens in the barn, the firs is done and has the two momma sheep and their lambs in it. The second pen will be for Ivy and charlotte and then phoebe and her kids. As soon as the sheep clear out it will be used for piglet weaning. Still lots to do of course.

Not sure if i mentioned it but we cleaned out the bottom of the 2 story a couple weeks ago and DH hauled off a full truck load of stuff that was in the 2-story from the previous owners. Now one half of the 2-story bottom is being used for chickens until we get a poultry house build. Atm we have 3 isa browns and 2 black sex links in there...the other chickens are still in the shop. We need to go in at dark and grab them only problem is they roof in the rafters of the shop 

We have not started doing anything with the garden yet. We did get the entire shop cleaned/scraped/limed again. The outside sheep/goat pen needs to have to old hay forked out and then the whole pen needs raked. Random outside stuff needs picked up. Metal scrap pile needs to be sorted for what DH wants and put in a dedicated area, then DH knows a guy at work that will take all the rest in for scrap. Atm the pile is just outside behind the 2-strory and it for some reason keeps getting spread out.

I'm hoping to get our beehive set up as a swarm trap too so we can have bees again. We will miss the window on buying bees this year.

DH had a guy from work who was suppose to come help him take apart the dozer so he could see what clutch it needs so it can be figured into the budget but the guy flaked on him. It actually worked out because DH was working on trying to get the furnace to work again all day Sunday.

They moved my direct hire date/pay raise out 2 weeks

I think that's it.


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## CntryBoy777

When ya bought the house, did ya not get a home warranty with it?.....we made sure that we had one on this house, when we bought it.....hopefully things will begin to work out for ya....it is a bit depressing when things start giving ya trouble all at the same time.....


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> When ya bought the house, did ya not get a home warranty with it?.....we made sure that we had one on this house, when we bought it.....hopefully things will begin to work out for ya....it is a bit depressing when things start giving ya trouble all at the same time.....



A home warranty is not a thing here as far as i know. I've never heard of anyone having a home warranty anyhow. Some people do home inspections but since the cold kills most critters here and we don't usually have much flooding, we are not even required to have a home inspection. We are required to have a well and septic/drain field inspection done by the county and the water tested.

We did however know when we bought the place that the furnace and hot water heater would need replacing in the near future...we just didnt think it would be this near.


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## Baymule

Google home warranty. You can get coverage for as little as $500 a year. So.....how long can you go without a hot water heater, heating water on the stove and taking wash tub baths? 



https://www.consumersadvocate.org/h...MIl-uj-crX4QIVFq5kCh1C_wrNEAAYBCAAEgKb9fD_BwE


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## Baymule

I found a link that has quite a few companies listed, then I couldn't add anything else to the post. Some I think are even cheaper than $500 a year. I don't know if there is a waiting time before you can use it, but it might be worth looking into. It could save you some money. Maybe-maybe not. 

Your post reminded me of that old show Hee-Haw and the song;

Gloom, despair and agony on me
Deep, dark depression, excessive misery
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all
Gloom, despair, and agony on me

It's about time that ya'll caught a break, and I don't mean a break down!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Google home warranty. You can get coverage for as little as $500 a year. So.....how long can you go without a hot water heater, heating water on the stove and taking wash tub baths?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.consumersadvocate.org/home-warranties/a/best-home-warranties?pd=true&keyword=home warranty&gca_campaignid=320703422&gca_adgroupid=15584422862&gca_matchtype=e&gca_network=g&gca_device=c&gca_adposition=1t4&gca_loc_interest_ms=&gca_loc_physical_ms=200623&&pd=true&keyword=home warranty&gca_campaignid=320703422&gca_adgroupid=15584422862&gca_matchtype=e&gca_network=g&gca_device=c&gca_adposition=1t4&gca_loc_interest_ms=&gca_loc_physical_ms=200623&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIl-uj-crX4QIVFq5kCh1C_wrNEAAYBCAAEgKb9fD_BwE



Well DH and i lived for 8 months without running water(hot running water for 10 months) when i first met him....so quite awhile. Problem is foster care requires hot/cold running water. Atm we still have hot water the tank is just leaking all over the basement floor.



Baymule said:


> I found a link that has quite a few companies listed, then I couldn't add anything else to the post. Some I think are even cheaper than $500 a year. I don't know if there is a waiting time before you can use it, but it might be worth looking into. It could save you some money. Maybe-maybe not.
> 
> Your post reminded me of that old show Hee-Haw and the song;
> 
> Gloom, despair and agony on me
> Deep, dark depression, excessive misery
> If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all
> Gloom, despair, and agony on me
> 
> It's about time that ya'll caught a break, and I don't mean a break down!



Kinda what it feels like lately. Things will get better....summer is coming!!!!


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## CntryBoy777

We don't carry one on after the initial period is over, but for the first year in the house it does give some peace of mind....here the seller usually pays the fee....so, it doesn't cost the buyer to have the protection.....


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> We don't carry one on after the initial period is over, but for the first year in the house it does give some peace of mind....here the seller usually pays the fee....so, it doesn't cost the buyer to have the protection.....



It makes sense I just never heard of it before. Here I think most sellers would refuse an offer with a required warranty attached to it esp if they had to pay for it.


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## Mike CHS

I have bought warranties for the last three houses that I've sold and it seemed to be a major positive for the buyers.  The cost was relatively small for the value to them.


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## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> I have bought warranties for the last three houses that I've sold and it seemed to be a major positive for the buyers.  The cost was relatively small for the value to them.



I think that probly has to do with a different market. Here most of all sales are under 100k, typical is 40-70k mark. Thou prices are coming up and i am noticing more and more places going over the 100k mark. I mean look at our place 12 acres, 1600sqft 3 bd 1ba for 64k or the place before it we were looking at 10 acres, 3bd,1ba for 54k...since then prices have come up to about about 70k for 5 acres 3bd 2ba nice updated place or 90k for 12 acres 3bd 2ba. Everyone says we are going to have another recession in 2yrs so shall see how that goes.

I'm looking at some warranty companies but i think the cost is going to be pretty high like 2k a year to get the well pump added because from what i've seen that is another package which doesnt include the furnace/hot water heater. DH did look further into the furnace and thinks we might be able to just get a new relay and get it going again.


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## Baymule

Land prices have exploded here. The school district is highly desirable and it is driving prices to the absurd. Land prices when we bought our place were around $5,000 to $8,000. Now prices have soared to the $12,000 to $15,000 per acre. Just in our neighborhood, there is a 25 acre tract that is priced over $12K per acre and right down the street is 3.7 acres that is over $15K per acre. Insane.


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## Bruce

I've never heard of a home warranty either.
Sorry every thing is going at once but you won't have to worry about them again for a long time after they are replaced. New well pump will likely be over a grand based on what the well company told me a couple of years ago when one of the wires at the top of the casing decided to arc. Fortunately they were able to fix it but given the well was drilled in '79 I figured it is only a matter of time and best to at least have an idea what it was going to cost when the time comes.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Land prices have exploded here. The school district is highly desirable and it is driving prices to the absurd. Land prices when we bought our place were around $5,000 to $8,000. Now prices have soared to the $12,000 to $15,000 per acre. Just in our neighborhood, there is a 25 acre tract that is priced over $12K per acre and right down the street is 3.7 acres that is over $15K per acre. Insane.



Prices all over seem to be going up pretty fast.



Bruce said:


> I've never heard of a home warranty either.
> Sorry every thing is going at once but you won't have to worry about them again for a long time after they are replaced. New well pump will likely be over a grand based on what the well company told me a couple of years ago when one of the wires at the top of the casing decided to arc. Fortunately they were able to fix it but given the well was drilled in '79 I figured it is only a matter of time and best to at least have an idea what it was going to cost when the time comes.



I'm really hoping it is just the little pump in the basement with issues not the one in the well. A new jet pump ia a couple hundred so I can live with that.


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## Baymule




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## misfitmorgan

Yesterday was gorgeous here, it was 70F and sunny 

Last night DH and I got the other new stall finished. So today we "should" be making two gates and hanging them and then we can put the goats in their pen. The Sheep are already in the other pen and have been for a week with a make-shift gate.

310 needs to go back outside since her ram lamb is gone now and she likes to be with her sister 308. The other two ewes will go back to the outside as soon as the white lamb is ready to wean. I think her mom has already kicked her off but i'm not sure, she will be 8 weeks old on the 1st.

Bottle lambs are doing good, they were moved to a pen in the garage because we were still having cold weather and snow. Duke will be 8 weeks old on friday and the black bottle lamb will be 8 weeks old on May 20th.  Charlotte is almost 12 weeks old and it looks like Ivy has kicked her off.

We also decided after all the losses and poor performance to switch feed mills. The new mill is about three times as far away(remember the old one was 4miles lol) however we had suspicions about our feed after talking to other area producers and looking at our stock. We also kept seeing over-cooked shell corn...like on a regular basis. 

Livestock has been on the new grain for a week now and there is already a noticeable difference in Ivy's milk production, so much so I had to milk a quart out of her night before last so she didnt rupture. I think she decided to let Charlotte nurse a little longer to try to keep her milk down. Phoebe has started shedding off her winter coat(might just be timing there). Time will tell if it truly makes a noticeable difference or not. 

I know we have been feeding both pregnant sows 10-15lbs each a day of pig & sow and another 5-10lbs of shell corn a day. Thats 15-25lbs of feed each a day and they were not gaining weight at all. Normal maintenance feed we used to do was 3-4lbs shell corn and 2-3lbs pig & sow but since not long after our mill got bought out we have had to constantly up the feed amounts just to try to maintain weight, which it didnt. I think the new mill owners changes how they make the feed and producers are noticing, i think they are making the feed cheaper and they keep raising the prices. We were paying $9/100 for shell corn that was good shell corn, now the burned/overcooked shell corn is $10.50/100. Pig & Sow went from $12.50/100 to $16.50/100.

So far the new feed looks better, at least the shell corn isn't burned/overcooked at all. So we shall see how it does. Prices are also cheaper which is a nice bonus. Our young livestock seem to take a long time to grow and look like heck while they do. We have all the deaths we can't explain. All the stock looks/feels thin or down right to skinny despite worming, loose minerals, quality hay, daily grain, fresh water, being treated for cocci, goats have copper bolus, etc.....really no reason for poor weight we can see/find. Hopefully it helps fix the growth problems. The feed mill was bought out right after we moved to the new farm, so pretty much our entire time at the new farm has been on the "new" mill feed.


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## Bruce

Sounds like the extra 8 miles to the other mill are worth it!


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## Baymule

I hope the new feed continues to help your animals improve. We drive an hour to buy our horse feed. When we have pigs, they get it too, it has everything the pigs need except lysine. So we give the pigs boiled eggs for the lysine in the yolks.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Sounds like the extra 8 miles to the other mill are worth it!


It does seem to be worth it so far, time will tell.



Baymule said:


> I hope the new feed continues to help your animals improve. We drive an hour to buy our horse feed. When we have pigs, they get it too, it has everything the pigs need except lysine. So we give the pigs boiled eggs for the lysine in the yolks.


I'm not sure what the mill did to their feed but it is definitely different. It used to be after we feed the animals they would lounge around or mostly ignore us, for months after they eat they are still freaking out for more food so we give them a larger ration same thing. As i said we have done this and upped them all the way up to 25/lb per head/day for pigs and they still are not gaining weight and acting hungry all the time. When we asked to see the feed analysis and found out they have never actually had the feed checked and have just been printing off the same tag, we decided that was the last straw. 

We didnt get anything done yesterday, DH is sick again and it was raining and "cold" all day so we just hung out in the house and I did house work.


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## Baymule

Word will get around on the feed mill and they will wonder why they are going out of business.

Sometimes you need a day to stay in and take it easy. Raining here too, I went out in the rain, picked English peas, mustard greens, lettuce and a few green onions. Supper tonight will be good!


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## misfitmorgan

Not a lot of farm related things going on this weekend. The weather was chilly at best. We did have our foster daughter's birthday party this weekend and it went well. She had 7 of her friends over, we did hamburgers, hot dogs, salad, corn on the cob and of course cake. I asked her what kind of cake she wanted, she said i dunno one covered in sprinkles. I immediately thought of a hot fudge Sunday caked(i've been wanting to make one for like a year) and asked her how about half covered in sprinkles...lol...so thats what she got.




The only change I made was that she wanted vanilla cake instead of chocolate so i did french vanilla and it worked out great. Yes I know in the picture there is one cherry still missing, I was putting them on when DH stopped me cause he wanted pictures for some reason.


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## Baymule

That's a beautiful cake. I bet she had a great time and loved that cake.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That's a beautiful cake. I bet she had a great time and loved that cake.



Thank you Bay, Yes she had a good time and declared it the best birthday party she has ever had.


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## misfitmorgan

So Friday night our hot water heater died....Sunday we put in a new 50 gallon one. So yay for that problem solved.

I called to talk to my mom on Saturday. My dad answered and told me my mom was asleep, I said I would call back later to talk to her...thats when he told me what was actually going on which no one thought I should be informed of. So here is the story of current/recent events.

Last Sunday the 4/28 my mom fell down and could not get back up, she was to weak. So my dad called my BIL to come over and help him get my mom on the couch(BIL is a nurse). My mother has not been able to get off the couch since. She has also now been sleeping for 72 hrs straight. She also has fluid in her lungs which they have not seeked medical help for because it's probably the cancer and nothing that can be done. Meanwhile my sister and BIL left town for the week. So here is my dad sitting at home with my mom with her restricted to the couch, and now asleep for a few days...and he didn't tell anyone. As you may have guessed I love my dad and I feel for him for what he is going thru, however I really am annoyed and upset that he didn't tell anyone.

I saw my mom on Easter she appears fine and was walking around, so this is a huge change in only a week after seeing her. I'm also a little upset my mom didnt say anything to me but i do understand she may not be fully herself at this time or capable of thinking of notifying people.

Anyhow I called around to let my Uncle know and my little Brother who lives in Seattle. So my little Brother is making plans to come home for a visit in 2 weeks, if that is soon enough. I am going to my mom's tomorrow to see her for myself and the actual situation and to try to talk my dad into getting hospice in if things really have progressed that far. I do know when my mom and I took care of my grandma when she was dying from cancer, she only made it about a week and a half after she went to sleeping all the time. So if she has not woken up, I know about how much longer we have I believe and i can tell my little Brother. He does not want to miss seeing my mom one last time he also does not know what he is going to do because he can not really afford to  make the trip twice in a short window of time. Like a trip here for 4 days to see my mom in a week or two and then a trip back in 3-4 weeks for a funeral. I told him to make it back to see mom and don't worry about the funeral if it comes to it. He is worried about our dad being all alone after mom passes so he wants to be here for a few days for him. I just told him do what you can do but make sure you see mom.

I'm trying to be factual and help my family the best I can during this time, it's really hard and if I think about it to much I can't keep it together so please say some prayers for my mom, my family and me.


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## Hens and Roos

praying for all of you


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## Mike CHS

Prayers are definitely with all of you.


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## CntryBoy777

So sorry to hear.....
Ours are certainly with ya all.......


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## B&B Happy goats

Praying for you all, i am so sorry for you and your family


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## Bruce

I'm sorry they didn't tell you, I would be upset as well. Good thing you called when you did and your dad decided to let you in on her status.


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## Baymule

Big hugs. I am sorry for you and your family. We are here for you. We might not be able to do much, but we can listen and send our prayers.


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## misfitmorgan

I got called yesterday around 10:30 from my dad and he asked me to come help him with my mom so she could go to the hospital cause he was worried about her. After i got there mom refused to go, so dad called hospice. The lady that came out was super nice. They are sending a bed today for mom, and they left us with morphine and lorzapam for mom yesterday. They didnt get there until about 5pm gave her morphine at around 6pm and by 7pm she was sleeping deeply which I'm glad about. She has been in so much pain, i'm glad it helped. Working with medical before, i know what the morphine means and I know my mom knows too.

My mom is a bit confused but she is still herself. I found out yesterday the stupid doctor took her off the steroid she was on...that was keeping the swelling in her brain down. He said it wasnt good for her bones...i was like are you f*ing kidding...yes thats the big concern atm  I dont know when he took her off of them, i only know it was between Easter and when she fell down so i am wondering if that is related to her confusion and seemingly out of no where rapid decline.  I'm going to see if hospice will put her back on the steroid at least until my brother can get her in a few days so mom can say her goodbyes still being mom. I know it won't extend her life but I know she wants to see my brother who she hasnt seen in almost 2yrs now. I'm just hoping for a bit more mental clarity for her for a bit.

Thank you all for your support and prayers.


----------



## B&B Happy goats




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## Hens and Roos




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## Baymule

I hope she can hang in there until your brother gets there.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I hope she can hang in there until your brother gets there.



Realistically her life expectancy is currently 2-3 weeks, the 3 weeks is being optimistic. My goal is just for my brother to get her to see my mom when she is still alert and awake/able to speak. He is going to be shocked last time he saw our mom she weighed about 175, at her last doctor visit right before Easter she was down to 147 and she has lost more weight since then. She also has moonface from the steroids. So he is in for a bit of a shock. 

Mom has totally lost her appetite, she says nothing tastes good and other things she can't seem to keep down. Dad has been making her protein drinks(ensure type) mixed with heavy cream just for the calories the last few days but i dont know how much longer she will be able to drink those either. It's a terrible situation, do you try to keep calories in her and try to keep her more aware, the calories will prolong her suffering and being more aware will be more stressful but not feeding her something feels like neglecting her and we dont want her to just starve to death, we also want her to be able to say her last goodbyes. It's like we just are not sure what decisions are helping her or hurting her and what ones she would want at this point.


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## Wehner Homestead

I’m so sorry. I’ve held many hands as they slipped away and helped many families through the decision making process at the end of life. My heart breaks for you!


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## Baymule

You will make the right decisions. You are doing the most important thing and that is letting your Mom know that you love her and being there for your Dad.


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## misfitmorgan

Wehner Homestead said:


> I’m so sorry. I’ve held many hands as they slipped away and helped many families through the decision making process at the end of life. My heart breaks for you!



Thank you 

Went and saw mom yesterday, she has again taken a rapid down spiral. She can could barely talk yesterday and is on oxygen now. My little brother will be in detroit at 6pm today, then he is renting a car and driving up so he should be home by 9-10pm today. My SIL and all the grandkids from that side are here and will see mom today. My sister and he family went down to missouri last wee kand were suppose to come back Saturday...I don know if they have changed theirs plans or not. 

It's hard to see/watch I am however focusing on the fact that my mom is still alive and I can see her, I will worry about crying over her death after it happens. I am terribly sad about losing my mom, I have to keep things together and kep a clear head though so I can help the rest of the family and help arrange travels stuff for them.


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## CntryBoy777

The thing that we didn't know beforehand was that my mom lost the ability to talk the last 4 days and it was difficult to know what she needed.....I just tried to keep her comfortable as she passed....the last thing she ate was 1 bite of spaghetti 3 days before....the ability to swallow is affected and it is better to not give anything eat or drink or it could block an airway.......


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I found out yesterday the stupid doctor took her off the steroid she was on...that was keeping the swelling in her brain down. He said it wasnt good for her bones...i was like are you f*ing kidding...yes thats the big concern atm


Yeah that is about as important now as worrying about her becoming addicted to opioids. 




misfitmorgan said:


> It's a terrible situation, do you try to keep calories in her and try to keep her more aware, the calories will prolong her suffering and being more aware will be more stressful but not feeding her something feels like neglecting her and we dont want her to just starve to death, we also want her to be able to say her last goodbyes.


Her body is shutting down, at this point I think she wants to see your brother so if the suffering lasts a little longer it is her choice and for a purpose. Tell her you love her and she can go whenever she is ready.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> The thing that we didn't know beforehand was that my mom lost the ability to talk the last 4 days and it was difficult to know what she needed.....I just tried to keep her comfortable as she passed....the last thing she ate was 1 bite of spaghetti 3 days before....the ability to swallow is affected and it is better to not give anything eat or drink or it could block an airway.......



My mom simply loss her apetite, i believe its to much pain and she said nothing tastes good. Dad said she had a little ice cream yesterday. She had 3 banana slices the day before.



Bruce said:


> Yeah that is about as important now as worrying about her becoming addicted to opioids.
> 
> 
> 
> Her body is shutting down, at this point I think she wants to see your brother so if the suffering lasts a little longer it is her choice and for a purpose. Tell her you love her and she can go whenever she is ready.



I dont know what she is thinking really. Last night when my uncle showed up she asked why all these people were coming instead of waiting until she got better. I almost lost it then and broke down sobbing as soon as i got out of mom and dads sight.


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## Baymule

My heart breaks for you. My Daddy died of bone cancer, it was awful. He didn't want to take the pain medicine because he didn't want to become addicted. How could we tell him not to worry about it? I was Daddy's girl and I still miss him. I don't know how you feel, but I know how I felt and I was deeply grieved. PM me if you want to talk.


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## B&B Happy goats

I have been there with both my parents, I feel for you and your family.


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## promiseacres

so sad for you


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I dont know what she is thinking really. Last night when my uncle showed up she asked why all these people were coming instead of waiting until she got better. I almost lost it then and broke down sobbing as soon as i got out of mom and dads sight.


 That is crushing.
I had assumed she knows she'll not be here a whole lot longer. Have the doctors not talked to her about her prognosis?


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## misfitmorgan

My mom passed away on 05/09/2019 at 11:26am in her home surrounded by people who loved her.


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## FRED DESANTIS

So sorry to hear this. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## Baymule

I am sorry. I wish I had words of comfort, words to make the hurt and loss go away, but I don't. Just know this, you have a lot of friends here who grieve with you. We care about you and we are here anytime you need to talk.


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## Mike CHS

Sorry to hear this but I'm also glad that the family was able to be with her.


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## B&B Happy goats




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## Bruce

I know that is going to be hard on you Misfit. 
Remember the good times 
 as much as you like.


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## CntryBoy777

......hoping ya can find Comfort and Strength in knowing she is not suffering anymore.....and now ya can begin "healing" from the loss....just please keep us posted on things, but take a break if ya need time....


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## greybeard

Sorry to hear this. It's never easy to go thru and often, the loss is even harder to accept.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you everyone 

The loss is hard, I miss my mom a lot. The entire reason we bought the house to the north of where i work was to be closer to her, there were better options to the south of where I work. It just seems kind of pointless now. 

I'm pretty depressed about really everything atm. I want to get things done but I also don't feel like doing anything. I sort of feel like I am waiting for life to start again...which is ridiculous because i know every minute of everyday life is going on. A million things need to be done and I dont feel like doing any of them, so then i feel guilty for that.

I want to skip a garden this year but DH doesn't want too, shall see how that turns out.

I put up the electric net fence Sunday, but it is not connected to the fencer yet. Since we have no hay and hay prices atm are really high we are going to be putting the drylot buys on "pasture" in the evenings. I doubt the grass will hold out but we are hoping limiting the grazing time will help it last as long as possible. If we can make it until about  mid-June hay prices will come down and we can buy some then. I think we are down to 5-6 small squares of traded hay and 1 small round bale left. It's really annoying because we have never had a hay problem before and never had to buy hay, if we had not sold 75 bales we would be fine...or rather if we had not agreed to take the mutt sheep. (sidenote on that, the previous owner is visiting the nut polisher so probly good we did take the mutts)

Most everything atm is hinging on whether DH does get/take a new job offer he has. Until then things are in a holding pattern.


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## B&B Happy goats




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## Baymule

nut polisher? Have a very vivid mental picture..... 

Hope you can hang on until hay prices come down.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I'm pretty depressed about really everything atm. I want to get things done but I also don't feel like doing anything.


Understandable and I don't know if it is common but I was just like that when my mother died 16 years ago. Get up, go to work, come home was about all I could muster for some time.


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## CntryBoy777

I know that feeling very well myself....and it is a part of the grieving process..........as far as the garden is concerned...there are a few ideas that may help ya....many beans and peas come in running or pole varieties....depending how ya eat them...ya can use Tposts and clip fencing to them, or use nylon cord, or even baling twine....plant as many rows as ya need....row planting is pretty easy and they will run up the fence and cover it....there will be plenty there ya can pick to eat/can/freeze.....and if ya don't feel up to messing with them ya can let them dry on the vine and then pick and shell them for dry storage.....if ya use CPs then ya can cut the vines at the ground and let the animals clean the fence, or turn them in to harvest the vines for ya.....hope ya fair well with the weather that seems like "Groundhog Day" for many in this nation.....allow yourself time to heal....and taking it easier, just a bit, may give ya "time" to focus and enjoy watching your animals....they will sure put a Smile on your face and and "massage" the heart.....


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Understandable and I don't know if it is common but I was just like that when my mother died 16 years ago. Get up, go to work, come home was about all I could muster for some time.



I think it is pretty normal.



CntryBoy777 said:


> I know that feeling very well myself....and it is a part of the grieving process..........as far as the garden is concerned...there are a few ideas that may help ya....many beans and peas come in running or pole varieties....depending how ya eat them...ya can use Tposts and clip fencing to them, or use nylon cord, or even baling twine....plant as many rows as ya need....row planting is pretty easy and they will run up the fence and cover it....there will be plenty there ya can pick to eat/can/freeze.....and if ya don't feel up to messing with them ya can let them dry on the vine and then pick and shell them for dry storage.....if ya use CPs then ya can cut the vines at the ground and let the animals clean the fence, or turn them in to harvest the vines for ya.....hope ya fair well with the weather that seems like "Groundhog Day" for many in this nation.....allow yourself time to heal....and taking it easier, just a bit, may give ya "time" to focus and enjoy watching your animals....they will sure put a Smile on your face and and "massage" the heart.....



We might put a few things in but if it doesn't stop raining boy will they be late. Already late on the cold hardy things. Our frost free is June 1st, so wet atm there is standing water in the garden....and it's currently raining.

In other news, We got the livestock moved. Adult sheep and goats went into the drylot....Ivy jumped the fence in about 60 seconds. So Ivy went back to live on the main floor of the barn for the moment. Big Boy was getting picked on by the rams and the little buc all at once so we took him back out and he went to the main floor 

The lambs all went into one pen and the goat kids/juvies into the other pen. The ducks came out of the CP pen(quarter circle one) and moved to thr main floor. That CP pen got cleaned and 308 along with her ram lamb are moved into there.

Sarah's babies look to be doing well, all 7 are happy and fat little porkers. We can also confirm that new feed is much better. Sarah has with every previous litter turned into a walking skeleton basically while nursing and then taken months to gain any reasonable amount of weight back. This time she was thin going into farrowing, she has seen gained weight and filled out while nursing. Sarah and her 7 babies are currently getting 5lbs shell corn and 6lbs Pig & Sow, all doing well on it.

We need to move ducks, geese and chickens out of the barn though. Sarah killed one of our white leghorns, so no more chickens in there. We will wait until dark tonight and see about catching them...should be fun since they sleep in the rafters. I'm going to try to design a poultry house but who knows when it will be built.


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## Baymule

You can throw up a cow panel hoop coop fairly fast. Put it on treated 4x4's and you can skid it where you want it. 

https://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/hoop-coop.18291/

Have you considered soaking the corn in water and letting it sour for a few days? It makes it easier to digest. I finish my feeder pigs on sour corn.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> You can throw up a cow panel hoop coop fairly fast. Put it on treated 4x4's and you can skid it where you want it.
> 
> https://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/hoop-coop.18291/
> 
> Have you considered soaking the corn in water and letting it sour for a few days? It makes it easier to digest. I finish my feeder pigs on sour corn.



We only have 1.5 CP atm and both are being used, and zero treated lumber. We do have pallets and scrap lumber so that is going to have to do. No money to buy CP, treated wood or wire etc atm. The week off of work really hurt the pocket book. Secondary problem is that would only work as housing until winter came then we would be out of poultry housing again. People do use those type of poultry hoop houses here to raise turkeys and meat chickens/ducks, so i have seen them.


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## Baymule

Yeah, I forget you live on an iceberg in the winter. Temporary chicken housing....pallets and a tarp? You will get it all worked out.


----------



## farmerjan

I haven't been on much and am just getting caught up on a few threads.  My condolences on your mom.  I am having some serious issues with my elderly parents and they are all the way up in NH so not an easy situation to deal with.  Not cancer, but dementia/alzheimers as well as my mom becoming totally unable to walk and now can't seem to talk. Even at this distance, it is very trying and difficult.  My sympathies.  
Our cattle went through one of the worst years for pregnancies/ rather lack of....... and we lost several cows over the winter to the constant wet/rain/chilly conditions.  We don't get the cold that you do, but being wet and, cold rain at 35* is harder on them than just plain cold.  We just keep saying it will be better this year.


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## Baymule

@farmerjan is the eternal optimistic farmer! I have tons of admiration for you and your son, you both show such internal strength and never lose hope.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Been Awhile, Figured I should give you all an update.

We still have our foster daughter, she is doing good. 

DH sheared all of the adult sheep about a week ago. Since we really looked at things and planned out that even if we get fence up this year realistically there won't be much to eat in the pasture until we can plant grasses and get them established. So to this end.....remember the guy who gave us the mutt sheep? Yeah he has about 5 acres of pasture and didn't want to have to mow it. So all of our sheep and goats are at his house now on lots of pasture. It cuts down our work load, gets his pasture mowed and is healthier for the herd. 

When DH sheared he found 3 sheep very very very thin, one of them being captain our smaller ram. So the entire herd was wormed before being put out to pasture, hopefully they put on weight quickly. The other two sheep were 294 and 308, 308 had a lamb but she was alone in her own stall with her lamb in the barn so no shortage of food. 294 we always have problems with. 

We still need to make some outdoor loose mineral feeders but otherwise the herd seems pretty happy. They have been laying around a lot though because summer came in with a bang with 3 days in a row in the 80s and about 3 million percent humidity.

Meanwhile Sara had her piglets, they are all doing well and healthy little fatties. She was back to being her excellent mom self.

Spot pig was butchered. She had an anal prolapse from eating large amounts of the wood chips/sawdust we use for bedding in the warm months. She was the only pig who seemed to have that issue. She got mineral oil and an enema twice, but it just got worse so after a few days without improvement we decided to put her down. She didnt seem in pain at all but thats not really a thing they fully recover from when they are 500+lb breeding Sows.

Mrs. Pig went with the sheep/goats to the guys house....he is keeping her 

So at home atm all we have are pigs, ducks, chickens, and 2 geese. DH did go pick up about 34 of the sorriest looking 2yr old layers.....then our dogs though it was fun to play chance the chickens so most of the already rough looking birds now have no tail feathers 

The farm is a lot more quiet but its better for the herd...including the humans for now. The friends house is also on the way home from work so i can stop whenever i like and see them. DH stops daily so far.

In other news...DH brought home a new dog about a month ago. I'm still not happy about it. I would have said not way and sent him straight back but DH only took the dog because the people had 4 dogs and said they couldnt afford to feed them all. This dog is only 8 months old and weighed maybe 25lbs...pitbull or boxer mix so very undersize and an intact male. So far The dogs all get along.....I'm still not happy about having a "puppy" right now though  I just don't have the patience for it.

I think thats it for now.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Oh also I started ripping the paneling off the walls in the hallway/front living room. There is finished drywall under it, same under the ceiling tiles. Need some repair and i need to sand the paneling glue off..but it should be fine once patched and painted and 1 million times better then the paneling.

Also side note....what is up with Arkansas? I time to time look at houses and prices of places in other parts of the country i might move to some day. Why are there trailers on 20-30acres listed for sale for $120K++ I do not understand this. Other places have a small stick built house thats need remodeling on like 40 acres....asking 115K bu the tax assessment is only $14,000. Why are the prices so crazy?


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## greybeard

You answered your own question.
_"It's Arkansas..the land where people don't wear shoes..where people when the Westward expansion was in full swing, came upon signs that said "Texas and Oklahoma--due West 5 miles ahead". Them that could read kept traveling in a Westerly direction.... them that couldn't read, turned back and settled Arkansas.
The Land of Opportunity...as soon as an opportunity presents itself, the people move elsewhere."_

(That's what my now deceased brother, a 25 year Arkansas resident told me anyway)


----------



## Baymule

There are not a lot of good jobs in Arkansas.


----------



## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> You answered your own question.
> _"It's Arkansas..the land where people don't wear shoes..where people when the Westward expansion was in full swing, came upon signs that said "Texas and Oklahoma--due West 5 miles ahead". Them that could read kept traveling in a Westerly direction.... them that couldn't read, turned back and settled Arkansas.
> The Land of Opportunity...as soon as an opportunity presents itself, the people move elsewhere."_
> 
> (That's what my now deceased brother, a 25 year Arkansas resident told me anyway)



I see..... i think....



Baymule said:


> There are not a lot of good jobs in Arkansas.


If/when we moved there we wouldnt need to worry about jobs locally


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## misfitmorgan

Busy weekend for us.

I worked saturday, then after work went home and started deep cleaning the house, it so needed it. DH moved pigs around and then a combination of friends, a guy who owed some labor, DH and our foster kid all cleaned and washed the barn floor.

Sunday I did more house work and caught up on getting bedding washed. Then DH, Our friend Kevin and our Foster kid killed, skinned and cut up Laverne to fit in kevins fridge. She will chill for 3 days then finish being processed.

Our hereford girl is going to have piglets any time now. Sara's piglets are doing good and are now weaned off and in their own pen


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## Baymule

You would enjoy Arkansas, it is a beautiful state. Mostly rural, there is a lot of farm and ranch land, mountainous in places, forest lands, plenty of water. There are good jobs in the big cities and towns, but not much in the rural areas. Mississippi is also a very rural state with land there being affordable. Mississippi and Alabama extend to the Gulf of Mexico on the southern end to hills on the northern end. Northern Alabama is beautiful country, my husband was born and raised there, but left as a young man because of job opportunities for Texas. If you don't have to worry about local jobs, then you can pick and choose where you want to live, and get the most bang for your buck.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> You would enjoy Arkansas, it is a beautiful state. Mostly rural, there is a lot of farm and ranch land, mountainous in places, forest lands, plenty of water. There are good jobs in the big cities and towns, but not much in the rural areas. Mississippi is also a very rural state with land there being affordable. Mississippi and Alabama extend to the Gulf of Mexico on the southern end to hills on the northern end. Northern Alabama is beautiful country, my husband was born and raised there, but left as a young man because of job opportunities for Texas. If you don't have to worry about local jobs, then you can pick and choose where you want to live, and get the most bang for your buck.



I did live in Florence Alabama for about a year, i didnt like it much. Went to Mississippi a lot to visit the then boyfriends family. They have nice country side for sure but most of the people weren't to nice. 
I'm thinking maybe mountains or something....I want a view!!! If you have ever been to eastern Michigan you know it is flat flat flat and full of trees trees trees. I've always hated that, always feeling closed in because of all the trees and flatness. When i was out west in in wyoming, the dakotas, etc the open space feeling is something I loved...that and the Salt Flats in Nevada....on a motorcycle. I really felt like I could have stayed out west forever but I was only passing thru.

Something like this would be amazing....of course not this place itself because look at that stinkin price tag and it has no pasture. The view is amazing, i dont need something quite that grand for a view but being able to see for a distance would be really nice. DH also likes the idea of first the view and second part of his family is mountain folks so he likes the idea of moving down there. DH also may take a job in texas and Arkansas is a lot closer to texas then michigan.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3390-Greers-Ferry-Rd-Greers-Ferry-AR-72067/90748778_zpid/

Anyhow we shall see what life brings us.


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## Bruce

You just need to scrounge up a mere $1.5M and clear some trees to make pasture!


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## misfitmorgan

*Butcher Pics - Fair Warning*
Also......A pic of cute piglets.....followed by butcher pictures of laverne...





This is Laverne being skinned....that's our friend Kevin who has our goats and sheep atm. She was the infertile pig chester white cross pig we had.




Kevin is only about 5'5" or 5'6" but that gives you some reference.

Then here are parts of Laverne....Thats one side and thats a really BIG cooler.




The cooler was used to take her up to the garage fridge at kevins, to chill. So on July 4th we are having fresh ribs and we are going to finished processing her. I'm hoping to make bacon as I have a belly from another pig and a hind leg for ham waiting in the freezer. Get it all cured then put it all on the smoker with some applewood. She is mostly getting made into roast and ground because she is older...so lots of sausage too. DH saved liver(not for me), heart and tongue as well. He wants to make liverwurst because we only have one package left. Not sure what his plans on for the heart and tongue, i've made venison heart we shall see.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> You just need to scrounge up a mere $1.5M and clear some trees to make pasture!



a measly sum....


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## Mike CHS

That is a great looking carcass.


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## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> That is a great looking carcass.



Thank you much, we thought she came out good looking as well esp for her age.


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## Baymule

The good thing about pigs, you can eat the mistakes. She did make a good carcass. I always ask for the heart, liver and kidneys from the slaughterhouse when we take an animal to be processed. I can it for the dogs. We just slaughtered 38 Cornish Cross chickens, I canned the backs, wing tips, skin, etc, mixed with a little rice, for the dogs and got 34 quarts. 

Your Hereford piglets are, as always, adorable.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Kevin is only about 5'5" or 5'6" but that gives you some reference.


Sure does, Laverne was one big hog! Enjoy.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> The good thing about pigs, you can eat the mistakes. She did make a good carcass. I always ask for the heart, liver and kidneys from the slaughterhouse when we take an animal to be processed. I can it for the dogs. We just slaughtered 38 Cornish Cross chickens, I canned the backs, wing tips, skin, etc, mixed with a little rice, for the dogs and got 34 quarts.
> 
> Your Hereford piglets are, as always, adorable.



Very true Bay.....porky mistakes get eaten and no evidence left over 

I love the little bacon seeds. We will be listing 5 of the 7 for sale, holding back the 2 we like best because we need some replacement gilts/sows and their temperament is good. 

Hereford girl is still holding onto her piglets and she is not happy looking about it. Been very humid here and in the 70-80s, all the animals are miserable. Probably holding back one or two of her piglets as well.

The next critter to go will probably be the runty lamb from last June....however now that he is on pasture with everyone else he has a bit of leeway and hopefully will grow.

I'm so looking forward to bacon and ham and sausage and ribs


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## CntryBoy777

I have jumped off the cliffs at Greers Ferry....many times and even attended a graduation party there back in the summer of '75....beautiful country over that way....and there is also some in middle and eastern Tn....once ya leave the Cumberland Plateau the hills start rising all the way to the Smokies....some communities would be Cookeville, Crossville, Lenoir City, Johnson City....a few cheaper areas in Arkansas to research, would be Pangburn, Bald Knob, Searcy, or Harrisburg....some of those may be quite a bit cheaper....just be sure to checkout the tax situation in Arkansas before moving....many left the state because of the taxes and how they are assessed....but, that was yrs ago when wiley Bill was residing in the state capital.....


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> I have jumped off the cliffs at Greers Ferry....many times and even attended a graduation party there back in the summer of '75....beautiful country over that way....and there is also some in middle and eastern Tn....once ya leave the Cumberland Plateau the hills start rising all the way to the Smokies....some communities would be Cookeville, Crossville, Lenoir City, Johnson City....a few cheaper areas in Arkansas to research, would be Pangburn, Bald Knob, Searcy, or Harrisburg....some of those may be quite a bit cheaper....just be sure to checkout the tax situation in Arkansas before moving....many left the state because of the taxes and how they are assessed....but, that was yrs ago when wiley Bill was residing in the state capital.....



Thank you much for all the info!! Taxes are not really great in Michigan but we will look into it if we did decided to move. Atm the car insurance is the bad one...we are no fault, so PLPD on a 99 F-250 and a 06 trailblazer is $111/month($1,332/yr) after the multi-car and multi-policy discount as our house insurance is there too. When i lived in Pa we had full coverage for around $300/yr on our old truck.


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## misfitmorgan

We had a busy 4 days around the farm.
Firstly here are some pig pics.

Backfire the Hereford Boar



 

 
Sara Duroc, DH's favorite pig


 
Backfire and Sarah's piglets are 9 weeks old(approx)


 

Thats the last picture of all the piglets because we sold 3 yesterday, traded 2 to a friend, and are raising one for a replacement breeder and one for butcher.

Yesterday DH and a friend put the big pigs out on pasture.


 

 

 


It's approx 1/3 of what was the sheep/goat pasture. The pigs seem very happy. In the last pic left to right is Stubby, Sara, and Backfire. Sara is a bit lean because she just had piglets pulled off a week ago.

For other news....This morning when we had to leave for work the hereford started having piglets. We knew she was close thats why she stayed in the barn. When we left she had 3 up and walking a 4th very small one had gotten laid on and she was still in labor. So hopefully everything goes well for her and the piglets.


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## misfitmorgan

Since I had 4 days in a row off 

I put half of Laverne's belly in to cure..around 20-25lbs of soon to be bacon 

Green/raw belly cut into pieces.


 
Cure...50/50 salt/sugar and proper amount of pink salt.


 
The last piece covered in cure. Gonna make some real nice bacon.


 

 

 
Since i had to much belly for the number of pans I could fit in the fridge. I am turning these every 12 hrs. Normally you only turn half way thru the 7 days. You ideally want them flat. i did re-arrange them to be flat-er later that night.




In 7-9 days Hopefully I will have smoker pics for you guys and finished bacon. 

Also side note, we do half our bacon as black pepper bacon...don't put that in your cure. Your bacon will come out super peppery and very hot if you try to make it like you see in the store with the black pepper crust by adding it to the cure. If you want the black pepper crust, rinse the belly at the end of the cure, coat it with coarse ground pepper then smoke it. If you just want a little black pepper flavor, sprinkle a bit onto each belly after the cure is put on. Hope that makes sense.


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## Baymule

I love the pig pictures! I get my Hereford fix through you. LOL Hope you have a nice litter of piglets to come home to. 

That bacon looks so good already! Lady hog we had butchered, we had the bacon cut, they don’t cure it. We thought it would be ok, but it’s not. NEVER will we do that again! We aren’t raising pigs this year, still have a lot of pork in the freezer and our customers still have pork.


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## Bruce

Yeah, uncured it is just pork. I made bacon once, didn't use the pink salt, nitrates are migraine makers and it isn't part of the curing process, just a "color keeper". It came out OK but too salty, should have rinsed it a lot longer.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I love the pig pictures! I get my Hereford fix through you. LOL Hope you have a nice litter of piglets to come home to.
> 
> That bacon looks so good already! Lady hog we had butchered, we had the bacon cut, they don’t cure it. We thought it would be ok, but it’s not. NEVER will we do that again! We aren’t raising pigs this year, still have a lot of pork in the freezer and our customers still have pork.



Yeah if the bacon isnt cured it's just think sliced fatty pork...lol. Make it yourself next time it's super easy.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Yeah, uncured it is just pork. I made bacon once, didn't use the pink salt, nitrates are migraine makers and it isn't part of the curing process, just a "color keeper". It came out OK but too salty, should have rinsed it a lot longer.



You can skip pink salt in bacon...you can not in ham though. It won't taste like ham, we have tired it.

Speaking of ham I made that too.

This ham is actually not from Laverne. This is a leg we put in the freezer a year and a half ago...waiting on bacon or more legs because we are not smoking one leg at a time. So i pulled it out..took off the skin, hockend and cut it in half...not the prettiest cut job but the cure/smoke will firm it up. you can make ham with any peice of pork, skin on or not.



 
This is the brine(cure), we do wet brine because we are not set up to do country ham yet as it takes about a year. Brine is salt, sugar, pickling spice, and pink salt.


 
The ham and brine in bags in a pot..then they went into the fridge too. These i will rotate every other day for 6 days..then off to the smoker with the bacon. Without skin on the brine works faster normally its a day per 2lbs.


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## misfitmorgan

Then I also turned about 20 lbs of very cold ground pork into breakfast sausage.
DH ground it on friday, then we dropped it in the freezer with the rest of the pork on friday night and i pulled it out saturday morning(wasnt frozen yet just really cold).

 
This is the pork seasoned up and after the second grind. I put it it into 1.5lb approx baggies and put it back in the freezer.


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## Mike CHS

Is the freezer time on the ground pork to make it easier to do the second grind or was it just late that night?


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## CntryBoy777

The meat sure looks Good!!....was tastin it as ya was explaining........the little ones are so Cute!!....love the herefords....glad things are "settlin" for ya some....


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## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> Is the freezer time on the ground pork to make it easier to do the second grind or was it just late that night?



Easier to do the second grind. We usually always use this same system. We butcher, let the pig chill 3 days, then process all the raw meat and raw/green cuts to process further, single grind meat. Then we put everything in the freezer, the amount of meat makes it take about 48hrs to freeze things fairly solid so between 18-24hrs after we place it in the freezer we take everything to process further.... out. The single ground pork will have ice crystals, it is frozen together but you can break it apart with your hands. It makes a big difference for the grinder. I did that entire lot of pork without having to take the grinder apart to clean it until i was completely done. If you have ever ground anything you can tell when it gets to warm because every couple of pounds you have to take apart the grinder and clean out the silver skin or any bits that get stuck..esp with something like venison. Pork you want cold mostly because it is so greasy and cold/almost frozen fat grinds easier.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> The meat sure looks Good!!....was tastin it as ya was explaining........the little ones are so Cute!!....love the herefords....glad things are "settlin" for ya some....



Hopefully it will be good and hopefully i get pics for you guys. Latest report at 7.30am check in from our friend is that hereford girl had 4 alive piglet....so shall see when I get home. That would make 5 total which isnt bad for a first timer.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> You can skip pink salt in bacon...you can not in ham though. It won't taste like ham, we have tired it.


I get an uncured applewood smoked ham at the deli and it tastes like ham. Not like boiled ham but that is a plus!


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Yeah, uncured it is just pork. I made bacon once, didn't use the pink salt, nitrates are migraine makers and it isn't part of the curing process, just a "color keeper". It came out OK but too salty, should have rinsed it a lot longer.


I've made bacon without the pink salt, and smoked it. It turned out sooooo good! Wilbur's bacon is just raw sliced bacon. Just. Not. Bacon. BIG MISTAKE.


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## Baymule

That's good to know about the half frozen pork making grinding easier. Where we have hogs processed, they chop/grind the fat. It makes it a lot easier to render for lard.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I get an uncured applewood smoked ham at the deli and it tastes like ham. Not like boiled ham but that is a plus!



I should have clarified...For wet brine if you don't use pink salt it won't taste like ham. For dry cure ham aka country ham, virginia ham, salt an pepper ham, etc can be made without pink salt, aged in a dry cure of salt/sugar or just salt or salt and pepper then smoked or not after aging.


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## Baymule

How is a dry cure ham processed? What temperature, humidity etc.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Wilbur's bacon is just raw sliced bacon. Just. Not. Bacon. BIG MISTAKE.


Yep, it is just "side pork".


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> How is a dry cure ham processed? What temperature, humidity etc.



Thats a complicated answer 

It wholly depends on what country, state, area you are in on how a dry cured ham is made. 

Commercial county ham is typically only dry cured for 1 month then then dry cure is washed off, it is coated in seasoning then wrapped in waxless butcher paper, netted and hung in a set temperature and humidity for several months. Then depending on producer it may be smoked(hot or cold).

Non-commercial is made different ways depending on location. 

If you are down by the mountains in the south(carolinas,arkansas,etc) typically it's put in a salt box for 1-3 months, then the salt is washed off and it is coated with red pepper on the face of the bone ends and black paper heavy on the meat and a bit on the skin, then covered in waxless butcher paper or brown bags. Netted or put into cotton pillows cases and hung for 6 months to years (like as old as 30yrs+). Usually not smoked in that area. This process is usually started in winter.

If you are in missouri or parts of kentucky it is similar process except the first step is a salt/brown sugar cure then wrapped in waxless butcher paper and hung for (if i recall right) 1-3 months again, then the process continued as above. Usually these hams are smoked in this region with a hot or cold smoke after curing is completed.

Other parts of kentucky and other areas again do the same above steps in whatever preferred method but the cure may be straight salt, salt/brown sugar, salt/white sugar, salt/sugar/herbs/spices, etc really varies. Then cold smoked at the end.

Country ham(and it's various names) is the american version of prosciutto. Both are a raw product traditionally that was cured with salt, mold, and time. Yes mold and every area has its own mold which gives the ham it's own taste. The mold will not hurt you and is washed off before smoking is done or before the ham is cut into. Country ham steaks you buy in the store is not "real" country ham, this a sped up version that uses hot smoking to cook the hams after a faster salt cure and age like a month or two, the time is why country ham steaks are not cheap.

The last thing i want to mention is that some producers and homemakers do add pink salt to country style ham though it is not needed it is some people personal/companies choice for "safety". The amount of time to cure keep the ham in salt, and how long to cure, smoke, etc depends on your area and preferences. Generally the salt curing portion is done in cooler temps around 60F(early/late winter in south) then the longer cure portion is done around 75F. Humidity is kind of just whatever it is though dryer for the first few months is better. People who make a lot of country hams will normally have a system set up or a room with temperature and humidity control.

Note on pink salt and "non-cured, organically cured, no added nitrates, nitrate free"  meats. I know i've said this before but "non-cured" meat is often made using celery juice which contains a ton of nitrates...which turn into nitrites and "non-cured" meat sometimes has twice as much nitrite as their standard cured brethren. This is very similar to the "No added MSG" labels on things...no but the natural MSG is in there. "Gluten-free rice"...rice doesn't contain gluten period  Some of the marketing us consumers fall for is ridiculous. Also pink salt does not cause Cancer, there was one study linking pink salt to cancer some 40yrs ago which was poorly done. All studies since have found zero supporting evidence. This is similar to the vaccines gave my kid downs, or two polled goats will make herms poorly done studies that no one else can replicate.

There are many videos and books on curing and preserving meat.  

Salt box type cure done in North Carolina.....this one is good but it is in sections spanning about a year.





Kentucky Style





Tennessee Style









Just search country ham or how to make country ham or how to make dry cured ham....tons of videos.

For books

This is pretty much the bible for charcuterie and a textbook with all the how to's, the why's, the science, etc tons of recipes for every kind of meat product, an entire section on dry curing and another on dry cure times. If your only going to buy one book, this would be the one I would recommend.
https://www.amazon.com/Home-Product.../ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Appalachian Type(i don't remember which of these has the country ham in it but the second one has recipes for all pig parts)
https://www.amazon.com/Smokehouse-S...t=&hvlocphy=9017171&hvtargid=pla-568248188576

https://www.amazon.com/Foxfire-Book...=0807843954&psc=1&refRID=3NT6Q260PNEMKDJ2CVB0

Charcuterie by rhulman - this is not a beginners book and it has many errors and contradicting information so many people say...you will hear it referenced all over.
The partner book to the above one is called Salumi which gives you actual how to information, like how to set up a dry cure "area", which casing material to use, etc.....again people claim many errors and contradicting information.
https://www.amazon.com/Charcuterie-...t=&hvlocphy=9017171&hvtargid=pla-627217032712

This is a good beginner's book with some more home friendly basic recipes and a section on breaking down whole animals. 
https://www.amazon.com/Charcuterie-...07743434/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_sims?ie=UTF8

So yeah......long answer lol.


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## Baymule

Thanks for all the information. Today the humidity here is 94% it ought to be raining with that much water in the air, but it is sunny, bright and hot. Sounds like a good recipe for rotted meat. LOL While it would be awesome to have a thick walled brick building for curing and smoking meat, there are so many other projects in front of that, it would have to be one of those things I'd build when I have nothing else to do. LOL LOL LOL 

I don't know that I have even ever had dry cured meat. Just the quickie process grocery store stuff. Raising our own meat gets me to thinking about things like that. 

I love books, not Kindle, not Ebooks, but real, turn the page books. Thanks for the list.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Thanks for all the information. Today the humidity here is 94% it ought to be raining with that much water in the air, but it is sunny, bright and hot. Sounds like a good recipe for rotted meat. LOL While it would be awesome to have a thick walled brick building for curing and smoking meat, there are so many other projects in front of that, it would have to be one of those things I'd build when I have nothing else to do. LOL LOL LOL
> 
> I don't know that I have even ever had dry cured meat. Just the quickie process grocery store stuff. Raising our own meat gets me to thinking about things like that.
> 
> I love books, not Kindle, not Ebooks, but real, turn the page books. Thanks for the list.



If you get temps under 55F for about 6 weeks you can do the first part of the cure and if you get temps under 75F for 2-3 months after...keep it out of direct sunlight and in a cool dry place you can dry cure. Dry curing comes from Italy where it is moderate temps and high humidity (45-97% humidity on average Texas averages 44-82%). Michigan is 54-88% average


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## misfitmorgan

Sarah's piglets



 

 

The herefords new piglets, she had 5 total minus the 1 that got laid on..so 4 left and she is being a good mom so far. We need to get in and clean her stall but we don't want to stress her atm. It's a small litter but better then no piglets. And all 4 are register-able.


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## Baymule

What cute babies! A new born piglet is one of the cutest animals on the farm. Somehow, most people just don't understand "cuter than a newborn speckled pig" is a compliment, LOL LOL. Your Hereford babies are adorable and just look so darn cute, only the ear splitting screams and a mad momma bent on murder, would keep me from hugging them all. 

The pen will get cleaned in due time.  Can you toss more straw on top? There isn't straw available here, we are in the land of pine trees, so big compressed bags of pine shavings are the stall product of choice.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> What cute babies! A new born piglet is one of the cutest animals on the farm. Somehow, most people just don't understand "cuter than a newborn speckled pig" is a compliment, LOL LOL. Your Hereford babies are adorable and just look so darn cute, only the ear splitting screams and a mad momma bent on murder, would keep me from hugging them all.
> 
> The pen will get cleaned in due time.  Can you toss more straw on top? There isn't straw available here, we are in the land of pine trees, so big compressed bags of pine shavings are the stall product of choice.



They are definitely adorable!

She has a hay nest on the other side of the pen you just cant see it in the pictures. It was very hot/humid yesterday so she wasnt using it. DH said she will be moved to a new pen tonight or tomorrow. That pen she is in is actually really really big like 12ft x 13ft or something close. She is being moved to a 12ft x 8ft pen. We do have another of the 12 x 13ft pens open right next to her but a smaller pen is better when the piglets are so young and it has a piglet escape in the gate of the smaller pen. When it is time to wean t hem Sara's piglets will go into one of the 12 x 13ft pens and the herefords piglets will go into the pen where sara's piglets are now with their mom in the stall next to them. The stall with sara's piglets is our smallest and perfect for fresh weaned piglets.


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## misfitmorgan

Hereford pig and her piglets (2boys/2girls) all got moved a few days ago to the new pen and are doing well.

The bacon got smoked on sunday and got sliced all up yesterday. A mistake on our part, we asked a friend who owns a little store by us to use the deli slicer to slice the bacon and he could have some....apparently he had no real clue how to slice bacon so we got what looks more like "ends and pieces" then slices back 

I'm sure it will still taste good but what a way for someone to ruin all the work put into it. I told DH next pig we do I am buying a slicer. I do appreciate him slicing it for us but I just wish he would have asked how if he didnt know how..looks like he sliced MOST of it against the grain so there is that at least.

We are gonna have several pounds to put into soups and flavor things though.

The hams are still being smoked....I'm having to do it separately over a few days to get the smoke time. We don't have a smoke house yet so I have to be there to constantly watch the grill and add more chip or sticks or charcoal. This is what we are smoking on
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018IVO9MM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It's awesome for grilling but not really built for smoking.

Hopefully pictures coming soon of the finished products.


----------



## JHP Homestead

We’ve been slicing our homemade bacon with a little Rival brand slicer like this one:
https://www.amazon.com/Rival-1042W-Electric-Slicer-White/dp/B00006IV0X

It works ok but is a little too small. I have to cut the bacon into 4-6 inch lengths to be able to slice it, so I can’t slice nice long pieces of bacon.


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## Baymule

That sucks about the bacon. Chopped bacon sandwich, anyone?  If you get a slicer, get a good one. A neighbor has one that he bought when we slaughtered hogs and it is a small cheap one. It gets the job done, but the carriage is too short. @JHP Homestead I can get longish strips, but I roll the bacon slab up and unroll as I slice. PIA, but it works-sorta.


----------



## misfitmorgan

JHP Homestead said:


> We’ve been slicing our homemade bacon with a little Rival brand slicer like this one:
> https://www.amazon.com/Rival-1042W-Electric-Slicer-White/dp/B00006IV0X
> 
> It works ok but is a little too small. I have to cut the bacon into 4-6 inch lengths to be able to slice it, so I can’t slice nice long pieces of bacon.





Baymule said:


> That sucks about the bacon. Chopped bacon sandwich, anyone?  If you get a slicer, get a good one. A neighbor has one that he bought when we slaughtered hogs and it is a small cheap one. It gets the job done, but the carriage is too short. @JHP Homestead I can get longish strips, but I roll the bacon slab up and unroll as I slice. PIA, but it works-sorta.



I was looking at something like this to start off
https://www.amazon.com/F2C-Electric...s=meat+slicer&qid=1563385102&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Then maybe later get something like this
https://www.amazon.com/Best-Choice-...=meat+slicer&qid=1563385270&s=gateway&sr=8-52

I dunno what I am going to do with the bacon...maybe make some bacon jam. I already had trimmed up the bacon ends to square it up before it went to be sliced so I have about 2lbs of cubed up bacon already


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## Bruce

The second one looks like the kind they use at the deli. Not sure I'd expect much from the first one either in quality or longevity. Likely not the best $38 you'll ever spend.


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## Baymule

Buy the better one, buy it once. I have bought cheap before and regretted it. But sometimes, cheap was the best I could do. Sometimes, I was so darn proud of a cheap item and I used it and loved it.


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## CntryBoy777

Shoot, I'd pick out the best of it for pcs....I'd still fry the other a batch at a time and top taters, salads, beans, or make a sandwich with.....course, with it being in pcs means ya need more for a sandwich....and ya can get a bite and not drag the whole strip out with the first bite.........and this comes from a man without dentures or teeth....yep, still eat em....


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## farmerjan

If he owns a store with a deli slicer he should have some common sense on what a slice of bacon should look like.  BUT,  one thing.....Did he know enough to get it VERY  COLD to slice?  If not, then I can see lots of "pieces" and short partial slices as he tried to get it to slice. Might not have known to chill almost to the point of freezing.  We take it as just common sense  or acquired knowledge.... but it is alot different to slice deli meats, in a "casing" as opposed to bacon that may not be cold enough .... just a thought.  And he might have been working it from the " shorter side"  which could account for it not looking like traditional slices of bacon. Handling it might have been a problem for him.  If you cut bacon in half, you can get shorter length slices that still look like a bacon slices, but will fit on a slicer better....


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> The second one looks like the kind they use at the deli. Not sure I'd expect much from the first one either in quality or longevity. Likely not the best $38 you'll ever spend.





Baymule said:


> Buy the better one, buy it once. I have bought cheap before and regretted it. But sometimes, cheap was the best I could do. Sometimes, I was so darn proud of a cheap item and I used it and loved it.



Reviews are pretty good on that first one and we know a guy locally who has sliced about 200lbs of meat on one...not ideal but it has worked. I would love to just buy the big one but budget says if i am getting one to start off it will be the cheap one.



CntryBoy777 said:


> Shoot, I'd pick out the best of it for pcs....I'd still fry the other a batch at a time and top taters, salads, beans, or make a sandwich with.....course, with it being in pcs means ya need more for a sandwich....and ya can get a bite and not drag the whole strip out with the first bite.........and this comes from a man without dentures or teeth....yep, still eat em....



That's pretty much my plan.



farmerjan said:


> If he owns a store with a deli slicer he should have some common sense on what a slice of bacon should look like.  BUT,  one thing.....Did he know enough to get it VERY  COLD to slice?  If not, then I can see lots of "pieces" and short partial slices as he tried to get it to slice. Might not have known to chill almost to the point of freezing.  We take it as just common sense  or acquired knowledge.... but it is alot different to slice deli meats, in a "casing" as opposed to bacon that may not be cold enough .... just a thought.  And he might have been working it from the " shorter side"  which could account for it not looking like traditional slices of bacon. Handling it might have been a problem for him.  If you cut bacon in half, you can get shorter length slices that still look like a bacon slices, but will fit on a slicer better....



We had it chilled down to 32F for him and he put in the walk-in for a few hours. I was hand cutting some of it without issues so that should not have been a problem. The slices are cleanly cut, its just like he didnt know what way the short grain was and just grabbed the slabs and started slicing and checked at some point and switched the slab around. It's not like he cut it in half, its like he  did i dunno what. I will try to get pictures it truley looks like ends and pieces boxes you get though ans we sent some nice bacon slabs.


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## misfitmorgan

This is the bacon directly off the smoker. It was soaked/washed for 30 minutes then put in the fridge to chill over night.





These are the areas I cut off right before it got taken to him to slice. The cut off areas were cubed up for seasoning things. That chunk with the scribbles was a off cut from when i was putting everything into cure so it got chopped up too.


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## Baymule

That is some beautiful slabs of bacon!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That is some beautiful slabs of bacon!



Thank you very much Bay!


----------



## CntryBoy777

That is one thing that never goes to waste around me....if nothing else I'll eat bacon sandwiches....do ya smoke the jowls?....best bacon Ever....


----------



## Mike CHS

All this talk about bacon made me go by the meat store and buy a 10 pound box of bacon.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> That is one thing that never goes to waste around me....if nothing else I'll eat bacon sandwiches....do ya smoke the jowls?....best bacon Ever....



We have before, this time I wasn't there when DH was breaking down the quarters and he decided to grind all the head meat. Still have not made shoulder bacon or english bacon....its on the list.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> All this talk about bacon made me go by the meat store and buy a 10 pound box of bacon.



Very sorry...but I am sure you will use it well.

Todays heat index is forecasted to be 102F.....  So much for that cool weather.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Logged on to 300 alerts....then I looked saw all but 5 were from @Senile_Texas_Aggie liking my journal posts 

Hope everyone is well. Not a lot of news here. We will be pulling off the hereford's piglets as it is time to wean them and send in the registration paperwork. Stumpy is prego and starting to make a milkline. 

Hereford and Sarah should be put back in with the boar the 3rd week of october which should give us end of February piglets for 4-h and hope for good weather.

The rams and bucks will be pulled off the herd any day now since the nights are chilly. We plan to bred them at our friends house since he has pastures to separate them. We are looking to all the goats and sheep bred by 09/20-09/24...we shall see. That gives us kids/lambs on 02/13-02/17 which is where we need them for 4-h market.

Oh in other news the sheep wether we sold to be shown in the bigger fair in the next county over did well. He got 1st in his class and 6th overall out of 28 other sheep. Pretty good for the kids first time ever showing. Because he did well they have already asked for 2 more lambs next year to show and also 2 piglets so yay!!



 
His starting weight when we sold him at 12 weeks old was 67lbs according to the 4-h scale. His weight at the final weigh in was 109lbs. Seeing as that was 4 months to get him from 67lbs to 109lbs I believe if they do get lambs from us next year we are going to try to help them with their feeding program because he should have pretty easily made 150+lbs in that time.

I think that's everything.


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## promiseacres

AWESOME!!


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## Baymule

That is great. Part of your farm plan is to help 4-H and FFA kids with_ affordable_ project lambs and pigs. I think y'all are on your way. Word will get around that you have good stock and don't rip the parents heads off for the $$$.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Yes, Miss @misfitmorgan, I am now stalking you!  <insert evil cackle here>  I am on page 103 of your journal.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

On page 182, Oct 18, 2018...


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## misfitmorgan

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> On page 182, Oct 18, 2018...


You should be caught up pretty soon then!


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## misfitmorgan

We did get the rams and bucks separated about 2 weeks ago. Most everyone is looking really good. Only down side is Ivy can not be kept in a fence period and Charlotte, Latte, and Espresso can fit thru the gates because they are still smaller so those 4 may be bred early. The rams did show interest and try mounting one ewe before we got them split up so hopefully none are bred. We plan to turn in the big ram in first with the ewes, and big boy first with the goats then wait 3 weeks and put captain in. This should hopefully insure we get mostly big ram lambs.

We are flushing the ewes and does because several were underweight and a couple still are under weight for what we would prefer. We are hoping to get some twin lambs this season, we specifically selected ewes that were twins or triplets to try for twins but so far the only ones who gave twins were the mutts. We think this is mostly to do with the poor quality feed we were unknowingly feeding them for the past 1.5yrs before we switched feed mills.

The sheep that are still skinny are 294(always have issues with her), 308, and capatin. We will be worming again soon, copper bolus for goats and hoof trims all around. After breeding they will be coming home probly late october. The goats and sheep will again be spending the winter in their drylot unless by some miracle we get  a pasture fence up.....without anything to clean the property.

Yes we know ground feeding is bad....they refuse to stop pooping and peeing in the grain feeders and we have not devised a way to stop them yet.




Big ram in the backround, Captain in the foreground.


 


For anyone wondering how big our sheep really are, that potbelly pig is approximately 2ft tall and that is a standard sized donkey gelding. The big ram is on the other side of captain. The geese were born this spring.

Here is big boy and the buck. DH put up those fence panels inside all the gates to try to keep the little goats where they belong.


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## misfitmorgan

This is DH trying to get the girls to come up from the back of the pasture...they were way over that hill in front of him.




He finally convinced them.




That goat butt on the far right is Charlotte, Ivy's spring baby. The white fluff ball to the left of the pig is the white mutt lamb.


 

 

 

 

 

 
That fluff ball in the back left....thats the white mutt lamb born this spring.




Dukette and the wether lamb are in there someplace. 294 is the in the middle back of this picture, she has almost no fleece and is the worst looking in the herd, this is her third and last chance to breed i believe. We will keep grain on her and see what happens. The mutts are fat, sweetie is the best i've ever seen her look. 310 looks amazing.


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## misfitmorgan

These didnt upload for some reason.


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## misfitmorgan

The herefords piglets are doing great and very friendly, sarahs girls are also doing well though a little small and less friendly. We will be selling the boar piglets as a registered boar, keeping the two girls are registered stock to watch them grow and gifting the run to our friend for a pet. Sarah's girls will both be held back still for breeding. Sarah has finally shed out completely on this new feed and has a nice shiny coat.

DH has been working hard to modify the barn, he has cut a door out on the far end and is building an outdoor pen for the boar that we can also doubler as a sorting pen or loading gate. We will be putting down concrete on that far end of the barn and building another farrowing pen, a boar stall and a piglets pen. That will give us 2 farrow pens, a boar pen, 3 regular pens and 2 piglet pens.

In other news we now have 30some round bales and approx 100 square bales of hay as well as 75 square bales of straw thanks to our hay field and DH traded work for the straw. We had enough round bales DH sold 9 of them. We should have 5-7 months worth of hay depending on number of kids/lambs.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That is great. Part of your farm plan is to help 4-H and FFA kids with_ affordable_ project lambs and pigs. I think y'all are on your way. Word will get around that you have good stock and don't rip the parents heads off for the $$$.



I hope so..we are really proud of that wether lamb.


----------



## Bruce

I hope that miracle occurs and you can fence some pasture. Do you have hot wire on the fences? There must be some way to keep Ivy in.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I hope that miracle occurs and you can fence some pasture. Do you have hot wire on the fences? There must be some way to keep Ivy in.



We have had hot wire on the top, bottom and hip...she didnt care. Our fencing is 48" tall at our house she scaled it and the hotwire at at 50" with 5" stand offs, no problem while 3 months prego. So far the best she has done is a 5ft pipe gate. Maybe if we made 6ft fences but i don't see that as happening...so she just goes where she wants.

The plan was clear a fence line and fence off the brush(future pasture area)....but it would have to all be done by hand or rent a machine to clear the fence line for $300/8hrs. Plus the whole need of fence and posts 

Might also mention my car is currently at 256,000 miles with zero suspension left and a host of other issues. It needs replaced before ice comes. DH's truck needs new spider gears and all 3 u-joints in the driveshaft. So fencing is not on the top of the list.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

misfitmorgan said:


> We are flushing the ewes and does



Sorry to show my ignorance, but what is "flushing"?  Giving them all enemas?  Worm medicine?  Minerals or other nutrients?


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Finally caught up!  Holy cow, you and your DH have had a rollercoaster time since you started your journal.  It made my head swim just reading about it!  I hope things will settle down for you so you and DH can get rested and getting your place the way you want it.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> Might also mention my car is currently at 256,000 miles with zero suspension left and a host of other issues. It needs replaced before ice comes. DH's truck needs new spider gears and all 3 u-joints in the driveshaft. So fencing is not on the top of the list.



I drove old cars for most of my life. I was the Queen of Junkers and Clunkers. I am darn good at dragging a crapped out car with another car, joined by a chain. I am equally adept at being dragged by a chain, keeping the chain taunt, applying the brakes and making turns. There is an art to it. I've had cars that my mechanic said not to drive any further out of town than I want a wrecker to drag it back. If it was 20 years old with over 100,000 miles on it, it was MINE!  I am real good at breaking down. I've had lots of practice.

So I know where you are coming from. 256,000 miles is just about graveyard dead. I believe you have gotten all the good out of that one. That's a Clanking Clunker! Time for a new or new-to-you car. You have to deal with snow and ice, so you must have a safe car. Your safety and just being able to get to work on time or even get to work at all, does come before rolls of fence wire and fence posts. So go shopping, find what works for you and what y'all can afford. It's a juggling act.


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## misfitmorgan

I'm afraid i have more not good news to share with you all. My step-father(as in my mothers husband) died on saturday. We have yet to find a will and as non-biological children of my step-dad it looks like we may be cut out of inheriting anything from out mom or step-dad since my mom died first. We have not even had the funeral yet and his oldest biological child has already told us all about 12 times well we have to go by the law....aka you and your sister will be getting nothing despite him being your dad since you were 4yrs old and despote it being your mothers home and belonging for 30+yrs. Everyone please pray for us that his all works out and thing dont get nasty. 

The only bright side of this wreck so far is our brother(step-dad's bio son) says no in hell is he letting her cut us out of things and if he has to he will split whatever he gets 3 ways. She has already tried some shady things to get herself as executor of the estate despite having shunned her father and all of us almost 100% for the past 25yrs.

We also can not go see if there is a will on file with the county until the death certificate is signed which she is making us wait until one of them get into town from our of state the 26th.


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## misfitmorgan

So a new car is on hold for the next few weeks at least.


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## Baymule

There is one in every family. Greed. Pure greed. Feel pity for her, she is a miserable, empty wretch. 

I will pray for you and your family that this can be handled without drama, anger and the despicable things that ugly, wretched people do.


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## CntryBoy777

Something that we found out with dad's death was that in Mississippi a spouse that survives another is only "entitled to half of the combined assets at the time of death....not all....so, if your mom's estate was not settled, then half of the combined at TOD is to go to surving children....it may benefit ya to check into that and would negate total control of it all that she may be trying to....which, in turn, would leave her out of at least half.....this was going to be a portion of our fight, but I got so fed up I pulled the plug on the whole mess....sure hope it turns out for ya and things can be worked out, but expect a "battle" cause many can't handle being "in control" and lose all contact with "common sense".....


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## Bruce

What I found says that step-children do not automatically get a share. I wonder if "automatically" means that while not a direct guarantee, it isn't a "never" either. I wonder if you can prove that you and your sister were directly in his life since the age of 4 and that she had nothing to do with him for the last 25 years the judge can make a decision that you and your sister will receive a share. Good luck, I feel for you and am sorry you got a wicked step-sister.


----------



## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Something that we found out with dad's death was that in Mississippi a spouse that survives another is only "entitled to half of the combined assets at the time of death....not all....so, if your mom's estate was not settled, then half of the combined at TOD is to go to surving children....it may benefit ya to check into that and would negate total control of it all that she may be trying to....which, in turn, would leave her out of at least half.....this was going to be a portion of our fight, but I got so fed up I pulled the plug on the whole mess....sure hope it turns out for ya and things can be worked out, but expect a "battle" cause many can't handle being "in control" and lose all contact with "common sense".....



I brought that up to his bio daughter and her response was that would all be part of dads estate since he survived her so you still wouldnt be included. 



Bruce said:


> What I found says that step-children do not automatically get a share. I wonder if "automatically" means that while not a direct guarantee, it isn't a "never" either. I wonder if you can prove that you and your sister were directly in his life since the age of 4 and that she had nothing to do with him for the last 25 years the judge can make a decision that you and your sister will receive a share. Good luck, I feel for you and am sorry you got a wicked step-sister.



The law I found says step-children are not heirs even if raised from infancy and have no legal right to inherit anything from the estate without a will stating otherwise.

Pretty sure this will be a battle and we will need a lawyer.


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## Mike CHS

I can't even imagine.  I wish you the best of luck.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Gosh, Miss @misfitmorgan, it seems like it is one bad thing after another for you!  I am so sorry for your loss, and now having to deal with a trouble making relative on top of that.  Life is so unfair at times.  It seems like the good folks get screwed while the bad ones get blessed.  I know that isn't always true, but it seems to be too often.  I hope you have the courage and strength to keep going, just like the quote after my signature says.  We will all be keeping you in our thoughts, and we are here if you need a virtual shoulder to cry on. 

Senile Texas Aggie


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## farmerjan

One thing, even if you cannot go see if a will is on file until the death certificate is filed, who was the last known lawyer that your mom may have had contact with?  Find out if there are any provisions from years ago about the family homeplace since he was not her  husband and biological father of you and your sister.  There might be some legal maneuvering there.  I would definitely ask any lawyer that may have helped deal with your mom's passing, and since you were in contact with your step dad,  if he has a will on file.  No you don't have to see it, don't do anything against the law, but just find out if the lawyer has a will.  I am not versed on the will situation and having to be on file with the county, I don't think mine is on file anywhere except the lawyer's office.  I only have one son, so it is not a big deal.... but maybe if they had used a lawyer that you are aware of, you might want to make them aware of his passing and ask if there is any legal papers that the lawyer may be holding.  Then when the death certificate is signed and filed, you will already have a little foot in the door with a local lawyer that you know and who may have been your mom's and then your step-father's advisor.  Can't hurt at this point.

My sympathies for you and your sister's loss.  A step dad from that early age is a DAD and if you all got along and with a step brother in the mix, it sounds like the step sister is the "wicked step sister" deal.


----------



## Bruce

As far as I know there is no requirement to file wills or trusts with local or state authorities. Can you imagine all the paperwork they would have to keep up with? 

The idea of checking with your Mother's lawyer is a good one. More than likely if they had wills/trusts they would be with the same law firm.


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## misfitmorgan

My parents did not have a lawyer. We never asked to see a will when my mom died or heard anything from a lawyer. My step-dad used a lawyer twice that we know of and that lawyer he used said there was no will.

The funeral home is the one who told us to check with the county clerks office because wills are usually filed there. I believe they did one of those make your own will type things. If it isn't at the county clerk the next place to check will be their banks to see if they were any safety deposit boxes.

At this point the estimated inheritance is $300,000+ which my sister and I may not get a penny of.

We are not entitled to my mother estate because it defaults to the spouse....per a lawyer.
I did find this though
*Surviving Spouse*
If the deceased had a surviving spouse, the spouse will receive the entire estate, unless he had a surviving parent, surviving child or surviving grandchild. Unless the deceased has children or grandchildren that are not related to the surviving spouse, the spouse will receive the first $150,000 of the estate. Of the remaining estate, the surviving spouse will then receive one-half (if there are surviving children or grandchildren) or three-quarters if there is a surviving parent.


----------



## farmerjan

I think that you were right when you said you probably need a lawyer.  And if your "brother" (step) is on your side, maybe he can help with that.  This may turn out to be  along drawn out thing, but I still think that you should pursue it for your own piece of mind.


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## misfitmorgan

We shall see what happens. The sad fact is she knows what she is doing and we don't. She has settled 4 other estates in the past 6yrs....and inherited from each of them. She also owns her own business...so she has money to fight with.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Sorry to show my ignorance, but what is "flushing"?  Giving them all enemas?  Worm medicine?  Minerals or other nutrients?



Flushing is just giving sheep/goats grain for the month before breeding, it gets them to release more eggs at once so you are more likely to get twins or triplets. Basically it makes their body go ok food is plentiful so we can afford more offspring. If you always grain you have to give more grain for flushing. We don't grain unless there is lambs/kids on nursing or in the last 1-2 months of being prego depending on their condition.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Pictures from last thursday. These are all girls except the one whether.


 

 

 
This is 310...she looks so good!! I am so excited to see what babies she gives us this year.


----------



## Baymule

They sure look good. And your grass looks good, the barns, everything looks like a home farm should.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> They sure look good. And your grass looks good, the barns, everything looks like a home farm should.



Thats at our friends house, he put a lot of time and money into the set up before he got out of livestock because of some life events.

We are working on our place. We will have grass growing for probly another 2 weeks. The pastures at our friends are big enough they have not been able to eat it all down and he has had to mow a few times.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Oh also forgot to mention I got a new car.
2014 Chevy Cruze 2LT with 108k miles...for a very very good deal


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## Mike CHS

Congratulations on the new to you car.  It does sound like things are coming together the way you want.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> Congratulations on the new to you car.  It does sound like things are coming together the way you want.



Some things are working out so thats nice.


----------



## promiseacres

So sorry for the loss of your srep dad.  
Then the drama of no will.... prayers it all works to your benefit. We will sign our will tomorrow... and guardianship papers if something happens to us... there will be no questions as to our kids and hopefully assets. 
Glad you got a new to you car. A good deal is always nice.


----------



## misfitmorgan

promiseacres said:


> So sorry for the loss of your srep dad.
> Then the drama of no will.... prayers it all works to your benefit. We will sign our will tomorrow... and guardianship papers if something happens to us... there will be no questions as to our kids and hopefully assets.
> Glad you got a new to you car. A good deal is always nice.



Excellent Idea very glad to hear you have a will. It's way more important then people ever realize. My parents had no idea the law said only biological children inherit. Still not found a will either, it's a mess. I'm drafting my own will so there are no questions if anything happens to me.


----------



## Baymule

Nice to have a friend with plenty of grass. Congrats on the new to you car. It is always good to get a better car.


----------



## misfitmorgan

We inherited my parents tiny dog, and their 3 cats. The dog is named Jojo and she weighs maybe 3lbs she is a chihuahua Pomeranian mix and very cute but needy and still not fully house broken. She does go to the bathroom on puppy pads but i would much rather her go outside. She also has some separation anxiety where she barks anytime she can't get to her humans.

Two of the cats are about 2yrs old one male and one female and the female is fixed. The third cat is between 12-14yrs old and a male also fixed. The younger ones hae been roaming the house the older one we have not seen since bringing him home. We put up the gate at the basement stairs and put their auto-feeders down there and litter box so the big dogs won't eat all their food.

Our cat Gerald isnt sure about the new cats yet but they are bigger appearing then him because they are long hair.


----------



## Baymule

They must be confused and upset, their world has been turned upside down. Blessing on you for taking them and giving them a good home. Hope they settle down and can relax in their new home.


----------



## misfitmorgan

With everything going on we still have not made it over to the sheep/goats to put the boys on the girls...hopefully today that gets done because they need to be bred.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The boys have been with the girls for about a week and a half now. Sows/gilts go in with the boar soon.

In other news I got a dehydrator to help store apples from our apple trees. So far i Have dehydrated a dozen apples for later pie making, dehydrated 6 bunches of celery that was on sale for .69cents each, 2 bags of coleslaw mix(for soups) that were on 99cent clearance. And I am looking for a bag of deer carrots to dehydrate as well. Onions are going on sale this week so I will do those as well and that will give me a good soup/casserole/bake base until next spring for us. 

I also got plums on clearance sale for 99cents for 2.25-2.50 lbs per package, I got 4 packages which made me 12 pints of plum jam. 

Cauliflower went on sale here for 1.99 per giant head so I made pickled cauliflower.

I've also made almost a gallon of apple cider, 6 pies worth of apple pie filling, a gallon of apple sauce, and 3 tiny batches of apple butter in my tiny crock pot.

This all started off with me wanting to make some apple pie filling for our freezer and the lady who works at the gas station offering to drop off jalapenos because we have talked about pickling them before. By some she ment a ton, also "some" mild peppers and green peppers. I ended up with 22 pints of pickled jalapenos, 3 gallon bags of green pepper strips for fajitas/stir-fry/pepper steak and 3 pint bags of diced mild peppers in the freezer.

This all happened over the past 2 weeks. Other then that nothing else new to report, oh except my oven on my stove is dying so baking is a gamble now but the burners on top still work fine. We are trying to find a used furnace we can afford atm we don't have a furnace yet. All the dogs and cats seem to be doing ok. The 13yr old cat has not settled into the change well he spends 99% of his time under our basement steps going thru a gap in the paneling to get there.

I also discovered an awesome recipe that reminds me of thanksgiving. I ground up chicken breasts seasoned them and cooked them into burgers, then put mustard on the bottom bun, fried onions and apples on top of the burger and plum jam on the lid....it was awesome. Sadly no pictures they were gone way to fast.


----------



## Bruce

I have a propane hot water boiler that works fine. I'd give you but you have to come pick it up . We took it out when we had to rebuild half the house 6 years ago. Replaced it with a propane hot air furnace. What I REALLY want is geothermal hot air but can't find anyone to do the work or even give me a quote so I can decide if it makes financial sense. 

You sure did a lot of food prep! Is the oven flakey because it needs a thermostat? I don't expect those would be terribly expensive or hard to replace though these days appliances are a lot more complicated than they used to be.

How is your foster daughter doing?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I have a propane hot water boiler that works fine. I'd give you but you have to come pick it up . We took it out when we had to rebuild half the house 6 years ago. Replaced it with a propane hot air furnace. What I REALLY want is geothermal hot air but can't find anyone to do the work or even give me a quote so I can decide if it makes financial sense.
> 
> You sure did a lot of food prep! Is the oven flakey because it needs a thermostat? I don't expect those would be terribly expensive or hard to replace though these days appliances are a lot more complicated than they used to be.
> 
> How is your foster daughter doing?



Very generous of you...only problem would be the piping/raditors for the hot water. The house is set up with forced air ducting that is only like 5yrs old.

I dunno why it is being weird it has been doing it on and off for a year. I've tried to adjust the shuttles for the gas a couple of times but it seems to have no effect. It could be a thermostat but i have not even looked to see where that is located.

She isnt doing to well. Within a month of being home she had some friends pick her up in the middle of the night and got busted by the cops doing drugs in the next time over, then lied about who she was to the cops. She was already on probation. Then a few days later she tried to commit suicide so went to a mental health facility for 2 weeks.


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## Bruce

I just can't "like" that post  So sad that she doesn't see a better future for herself or can't get there. Sounds like "home" is a bad place for her, of course that is probably the reason she was in foster care in the first place.


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## misfitmorgan

I would say home is a bad place for her because of many of her own actions and her being a troubled teenager. One of her favorite activities is to try to push peoples buttons and she knew exactly how to do that to her mom to the point of breaking. The good part about foster care and their programs is it really does help a lot of parents who really don't know what else to do to try to get their kid to "pull their head out" so to speak. 

Our foster daughter will take every advantage she can get, be manipulative, selfish, push buttons to get what she wants, etc....so a pretty typical teenager these days. She just takes everything to the extreme including her emotions and her boundaries. I love that kid and I always will, I really wish she would just walk the straight and narrow because later in life she would appreciate the fact that she did. She has some big dreams, she is smart and talented, I hope nothing but good things for her however I can no longer help her get there at this time.


----------



## Baymule

That is sad. Why do some kids have to be so hard headed and dumb? They make life altering decisions when they are still too immature to know what they are doing and how it will impact their life for years to come. I couldn't like that post either.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That is sad. Why do some kids have to be so hard headed and dumb? They make life altering decisions when they are still too immature to know what they are doing and how it will impact their life for years to come. I couldn't like that post either.



Because they are young and dumb but think they know everything...don't you remember being a teenager Bay?

Truthfully she is almost 16 and this is only the second time she has gotten in trouble for anything so she does still have time to get her head screwed on right. Just seems the two things she has gotten in trouble for were big things, I think she will be ok.

In other news....nothing new here

Near future plans... Get the stalls we need made built, finish the boar pen fence, sliver of a chance we might be able to get the cement barn floor poured before things freeze. More likely we will end up just building the pens on the dirt for now which is not ideal. Hoping to also get the yard cleaned up before snow flies. We also need to butcher the whether lamb, the little buck will have to wait until the rut smell wears off. Atm the sheep and goats are still out on pasture at our friends house and should be coming home soon.


----------



## Baymule

two things impede progress.....
1. Money
2. Time-cause you're at work, making the money needed to do projects.


----------



## Bruce

Yep! Big Catch-22. Kinda like why do the young people have all the energy but no time and the old people have the time and no energy.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Been busy here....Sure I will repeat some stuff I have already posted.

Trying to stock up food for winter so we can save some money for spring(livestock stuff/garden).

So far i have dehydrated apples, coleslaw mix, carrots, celery, and tomatoes. I have canned apple butter, apple sauce, apple cider, plum jam, pickled jalapenos, and pickled cauliflower. I have bell peppers and mild peppers chopped in the freezer, as well as apple pie filling.

We had our local can sale so I got....
12 cans kidney beans
12 cans pinto beans
9 cans seasoned black beans
12 cans of crushed tomatoes
12 cans of chili ready diced tomatoes
6 cans of french style green beans
6 cans of cut green beans
12 cans of corn
6 cans of cream of mushroom soap
6 cans of cream of chicken soup
2 cans of spaghetti sauce
For approximately $32, I do need to go snag a few more cans of spaghetti sauce but we are pretty much set on canned goods for winter/spring.

I'm also planning a trip to the next town over because one store has a good sale on cheese, butter and pasta and another store has a good sale on beef. THen i just need to stock up on dry goods and we are all set except for "perishables" like milk and coffee

I had a late start with all the losses but I'm making a push for it. We hope to put in a garden next year and I will can or dehydrate our needs first then the rest will go on the farm stand.

We have the garlic to plant if it ever stop raining.

In other news something has been eating our poultry...pretty sure we figured it out since DH saw a coyote stalking a chicken in the front yard a few days ago. He has seen the coyote twice but it was as he got home from work so no chance to grab a gun before it took off. Havn't seen it since but i have no doubt it is still around. We are down to 6 ducks and we have lost at least 20 chickens.

Everyone else seems to be doing well though.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Ouch!  I hope you get that coyote.  And once you do, you can go over and help Miss @rachels.haven get her problem coyote!


----------



## Baymule

Stocking the pantry and freezer is always a good feeling. Next year will be even better when you have a garden.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sounds to me the DH needs a southern style gun rack on his rear window and tote a rifle on it, so when he pulls up he already has it handy.....
We are working to get a garden going here too....working to clear some areas for it and to open up the canopy to let more sunshine through...to those areas....


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Stocking the pantry and freezer is always a good feeling. Next year will be even better when you have a garden.


I hope so!



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Ouch!  I hope you get that coyote.  And once you do, you can go over and help Miss @rachels.haven get her problem coyote!


Might be a bit of a drive 



CntryBoy777 said:


> Sounds to me the DH needs a southern style gun rack on his rear window and tote a rifle on it, so when he pulls up he already has it handy.....
> We are working to get a garden going here too....working to clear some areas for it and to open up the canopy to let more sunshine through...to those areas....



He won't carry a gun in his truck to tempting for someone to steal it and the cops harass you here even though open carry is legal. We will get the coyote.


----------



## misfitmorgan

So I made a really awesome recipe up(i think) DH, our friend and I loved it.

We dont like the texture of most store bought white meat chicken so I had a package of chicken breasts that were not good for cooking whole unless they were slow roasted or stewed for a long time. So i decided to grind it up and make chicken burgers. OMG they were so good and reminded me of thankgiving. So i thought I would share the recipe here since we have had it twice in 2 weeks.

1lb of chicken burger
season to taste (salt, pepper, garlic powder, onion powder, poultry seasoning)
2 large onions
2 apples (i used honeycrisp)
4 hamburger buns
yellow mustard to taste
plum jam(could use cranberry jelly, plum jelly, most berry jams/jellies)

Mix chicken and seasoning then form 4 patties and cook on medium high without oil in a good non-stick pan for about 10 minutes, flip halfway thru cooking. Peel, core and thinly slice apple(1/4" or so). Peel and slice onion(1/2" or so) fry apples and onions on medium heat in 1tsp of oil seasoning with pepper(no salt) until onion are starting to caramelize and apples are tendercrisp. Toast hamburger buns(whatever way you to like too...oven, toaster, dry pan).

Put yellow mustard on the bottom bun, your chicken patty, then fried apples and onions on top, then jam/jelly on the top bun and enjoy. We use extra friend apples and onions as a side.

Now i have a picture but you will have to excuse the dirty plate(i forget to get a picture before eating my first burger and apples and onions side.) Also we like a lot of pepper because we dont use much salt so go lighter if you dont like a lot of pepper.





If you don't like mustard try it with the mustard anyhow, you need it to balance the sweetness. I'm not a big fan of mustard but loved it on this burger.


----------



## Baymule

That sounds good.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Yum!


----------



## Bruce

Chicken and apples! We have a lot of apples, DW was given a whole bag of Macs and whatever our little tree in the yard is produced a lot this year (never has before and is at LEAST 10 years old. 2 weeks ago I made chicken and apple salad (no recipe, just put stuff together) and it was quite good, doing it again tomorrow. I bet your chicken burgers were great!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Chicken and apples! We have a lot of apples, DW was given a whole bag of Macs and whatever our little tree in the yard is produced a lot this year (never has before and is at LEAST 10 years old. 2 weeks ago I made chicken and apple salad (no recipe, just put stuff together) and it was quite good, doing it again tomorrow. I bet your chicken burgers were great!



Chicken salad with apples is my favorite kind. My "recipe" is apples, grapes, celery, onions and walnuts or pecans...its soo soo good. 

Sweet or fruity stuff just goes so well with chicken.


----------



## farmerjan

Good use for those "blase' " chicken breasts that you don't care for @Baymule .  I might have to try it with the ones I have.


----------



## Bruce

Yep. DW isn't all that fond of roast chicken (DD2 "allows" one meal with chicken per month) but she's OK with it in salads, stir fries, etc. She really liked the chicken and apple salad. I could add some onion, have plenty of that. No grapes or celery (I don't think) and I'm not putting nuts in it, not a big fan of that much "crunch" in my salad.


----------



## farmerjan

Tell DD2 that you "allow yourself"  to have as many chicken meals as you want since it is your house, you pay the bills and if she does not contribute to the household budget, then she has little to say about the food.  Does she mean she only allows herself "one meal with chicken a month" ? 
Pardon me, but what is the difference if it is in salads  and stir fry's,   from a "meal"???   Honestly, that has me stumped.

Chicken is chicken, and if in a stir fry or a salad, it is still the main protein of the meal.... I can understand it if your wife isn't that fond of it.... there are some foods that I am not overly crazy about, and don't make often.... but I am also the Chief cook, bottle washer, income provider, food grower, and all the other things that go along with providing the room and board that I enjoy.


----------



## Baymule

That's how I make my chicken salad too, only I never put apples in it..... sounds good! Got to have pecans in it!


----------



## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Good use for those "blase' " chicken breasts that you don't care for @Baymule .  I might have to try it with the ones I have.


Try it out, it really makes store bought chicken more edible...least the stuff i have been seeing up here for 2 yrs now. Intermuscular fat on chicken breasts is so wrong and gross. If i get the really little pre-frozen ones they dont have it..yet.

We are hoping to raise meat birds this coming year.



Bruce said:


> Yep. DW isn't all that fond of roast chicken (DD2 "allows" one meal with chicken per month) but she's OK with it in salads, stir fries, etc. She really liked the chicken and apple salad. I could add some onion, have plenty of that. No grapes or celery (I don't think) and I'm not putting nuts in it, not a big fan of that much "crunch" in my salad.



I'm glad you found something your wife liked!



Baymule said:


> That's how I make my chicken salad too, only I never put apples in it..... sounds good! Got to have pecans in it!



I knew you were my kind of women Bay!!


----------



## Baymule

Too bad that we aren't next door neighbors!


----------



## farmerjan

So, I mis-interpreted and it is your wife that doesn't mind chicken in the salads etc, not your DD2.  But your DD2 allows one chicken meal a month?


----------



## Bruce

Correct. We got a fresh chicken at the Farmer's Market last Saturday. Roasted it Sunday (Saturday is burger (from the market of course) night  DD2 will eat only the legs, DW only the breast. So I eat the thighs, dark is my favorite part anyway. The leftover breast will be put in the chicken salad tonight, I ate the wings and some of the first breast Tuesday when they had sushi (which I don't eat, no raw fish for me thanks) from the health food store. I go on Tuesdays because there is a discount on bulk foods and DW likes that stuff, especially the ridiculously expensive dried Mango. It is 25 miles one way to that store.


----------



## Bruce

I might add that DD is spending the afternoon down in Burlington with a high school friend. She will be sure to get something for dinner so she can easily avoid the chicken tonight. Of COURSE she wouldn't even try it just in case it might be good, that is not her way.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Too bad that we aren't next door neighbors!



I know right



Bruce said:


> Correct. We got a fresh chicken at the Farmer's Market last Saturday. Roasted it Sunday (Saturday is burger (from the market of course) night  DD2 will eat only the legs, DW only the breast. So I eat the thighs, dark is my favorite part anyway. The leftover breast will be put in the chicken salad tonight, I ate the wings and some of the first breast Tuesday when they had sushi (which I don't eat, no raw fish for me thanks) from the health food store. I go on Tuesdays because there is a discount on bulk foods and DW likes that stuff, especially the ridiculously expensive dried Mango. It is 25 miles one way to that store.



I would just like to say.....You must love your family very very much to put up with all the "rules". I don't think I would be able to handle it personally but I am cheap and was raised around ag my whole life and I know not everyone was that fortunate.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Baymule said:


> Too bad that we aren't next door neighbors!



Can you imagine what it would be like if you three, Miss @Baymule, Miss @misfitmorgan, and Miss @B&B Happy goats, all lived in the same neighborhood?


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## Baymule

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Can you imagine what it would be like if you three, Miss @Baymule, Miss @misfitmorgan, and Miss @B&B Happy goats, all lived in the same neighborhood?


That would be FUN!!! Maybe not for anyone else, but WE sure would enjoy it!


----------



## misfitmorgan

I very much agree!!! So fun


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## misfitmorgan

I'm  really wondering why BYH made the site look different with the update. It looks very boring now and our banners which made us more "unique" are missing. I'm not a fan


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I am with you on that one, very boring


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## misfitmorgan

B&B Happy goats said:


> I am with you on that one, very boring



I appreciate all the work they do but Jack is definitely a dull boy now.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

misfitmorgan said:


> I appreciate all the work they do but Jack is definitely a dull boy now.


I feel like I lost my comfort zone, lol....guess we will get used to it


----------



## frustratedearthmother

B&B Happy goats said:


> I feel like I lost my comfort zone, lol....guess we will get used to it


Amen, sister!  Learning experience from now on...   But, it'll keep the brain working, lol


----------



## Baymule

I looked at my Oster meat grinder and it was made in the USA. I still have the original box and attachments it came with. Took out 52 pounds of pork to thaw last night, going to make stuffed sausage today, DH will smoke it tomorrow.


----------



## misfitmorgan

B&B Happy goats said:


> I feel like I lost my comfort zone, lol....guess we will get used to it



I'm having the same feeling atm. 



Baymule said:


> I looked at my Oster meat grinder and it was made in the USA. I still have the original box and attachments it came with. Took out 52 pounds of pork to thaw last night, going to make stuffed sausage today, DH will smoke it tomorrow.



I've been looking around to see if I can find tubes for it....so far no luck unless I buy another of the same grinder off ebay for like $40. Mine had no box but it did have the manual, wrench, coarse and fine blade, pusher, auger, blade, and shoot.


----------



## farmerjan

Try LEM products.  They have a big catalog for meat working products, grinders, dehydrators, smokers etc.  Don't know if they can help you or not.  I don't have a grinder so don't know.


----------



## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Try LEM products.  They have a big catalog for meat working products, grinders, dehydrators, smokers etc.  Don't know if they can help you or not.  I don't have a grinder so don't know.


Thank you


----------



## misfitmorgan

We got 2" of snow last night    It will melt but still sucks.

So we went to put the sows in with the boar and it looks like Sara is very far along in gestation. We didnt think she got bred in the pasture since she was only in pasture with the boar from July 7th to about July 21st but looks like she took. So looking at piglets between today and Nov 12th. It's not good because it is very off market but does mean we can sell near butcher ready mid-march and they will not be exposed to the super cold weather...though it was 29F last night. Thats a far cry from the about 90F fresh piglets like.

Side note....new farrow stalls have not been build yet and piglet heat has not been set up  Been raining almost none stop for 3 weeks now which is making things about impossible with the temps only in the 30-40s for the day time.


----------



## farmerjan

Sure don't envy you the snow..... don't want any here for at least another month....Maybe only Christmas......
We are due to warm up a little.... winds to die down today, cold temps for here, 20's at night,  but back up to the 50's and 60's by next week.  Maybe we will see some "FALL" weather... for at least a week?????? We did get 1.8 inches rain even with the wind.... couple thousand people out of power from down trees/wires..... at least our drought conditions are over but we won't get much fall growth at this late date.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Hear you on the snow...we ended up getting close to 8 inches the last two days of Oct  of course we are still waiting for the field next to us to be combined so we can clean out the goat pens!


----------



## Baymule

Snow! Boo!!! 

So Sara is about to present y’all with little wiggly piglets! And you don’t have the baby nursery set up for them? Better get busy, they are coming at you like a freight train. You KNOW I expect pictures!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thankfully the snow melted off.......because it rained every day almost all day. Todays high is 47F heatwave! We have gotten no progress made on a pig nursery, We had to fix the goat/sheep pen, fix the shelter that is trying to collapse, make a gate and close off the back wall...so the goats and sheep can come home. We got the fence fixed, shelter partly shored up, and gate fixings. Still have to run new hot wire, put in a real ground for the fence, close off the back wall and scrap out the shelter and put in bedding as well as re-hang the mineral feeder.

Today is work on pig stuff day after work. we actually need to move the hereford in with the boar but since sarah is so close we can't move her to a farrow pen atm even if we build one so a slight reprieve from that. 

We do need to modify her pen a bit to add a heat corner for the piglets where she can't destroy yet another heat lamp....her current score is Sara 4 heat lamps 0. Ironically an alert for "Sara due" popped up on my phone yesterday. Near as i can figure/recall we must have saw her get bred in pasture and i put it in my calendar just in case. Of course with everything since then going on we completely forgot. So it looks like we will only have 1 spring litter of piglets.

We need to get that coyote dead, we are down to 2 ducks. We have not seen it since the first 2 times.

We also need to do fall herd management when they come home. They need wormed, goats need hooves trimmed and copper bolus. We are playing with the idea of separating anyone who is thin and feeding them a little extra only problem is we have no place to put them. Last time we looked they were all looking pretty good compared to how they came out of winter and nursing. Hopefully with the fall round of worming and bolus as well as more regular access to loose minerals they will shape up the rest of the way. The ones I was concerned about last time we were there was 294 and captain for the sheep and latte and espresso for the goats. 308 looked a little thin but not horribly so.


----------



## Baymule

Always something to do on the farm, it sure can make you feel like you are behind the 8 ball of getting things done. A little at a time, eventually you will get it all done. I keep a scrap pile of used tin and raid it frequently. I also keep a pile of reject lumber and raid that likewise. Wealth to me, junk to someone else.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Always something to do on the farm, it sure can make you feel like you are behind the 8 ball of getting things done. A little at a time, eventually you will get it all done. I keep a scrap pile of used tin and raid it frequently. I also keep a pile of reject lumber and raid that likewise. Wealth to me, junk to someone else.



We have a big pile of pallets both slated and decked, a very large pile of scrape wood, a pile of 2x6s and lots of scrap/tin....it's mostly things like boxes of nails and hinges etc that hold us up because everything has to be build for wind, snow load, frost heave, and warmth in winter but cool in summer here 

Slowly things are getting done.


----------



## Baymule

I ask my husband that my birthday present be a 5 pound box of deck screws. $30 for them! Gosh I love those things! I have 2", 2 1/2" 3" and 4"...…….I need more! Blast!Christmas is out, we are giving each other a truck tire.


----------



## Beekissed

We are supposed to get a little snow next week and I'm tickled pink!   I'm ready for it and love snow, though it likely won't stick around as we will be having too much rain and too warm of temps for it to stay.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I ask my husband that my birthday present be a 5 pound box of deck screws. $30 for them! Gosh I love those things! I have 2", 2 1/2" 3" and 4"...…….I need more! Blast!Christmas is out, we are giving each other a truck tire.



Bay, we are so much alike at times!     That would be a perfect gift for me too, especially the big tubs.   We go through those like other folks go through breakfast cereal.   I love hardware!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I ask my husband that my birthday present be a 5 pound box of deck screws. $30 for them! Gosh I love those things! I have 2", 2 1/2" 3" and 4"...…….I need more! Blast!Christmas is out, we are giving each other a truck tire.



Maybe I will suggest that this christmas.....though he will be buying himself a truck tire before then. We do try to get useful things like last year he got bibs, work boots, and wool socks, year before he got a stanley "every bit and ratchet in many sizes known including deep well metric and standard known to man" set, yeah before that was a set of ridgid cordless drills. I just don't think we have ever though about hardware for presents!



Beekissed said:


> We are supposed to get a little snow next week and I'm tickled pink!   I'm ready for it and love snow, though it likely won't stick around as we will be having too much rain and too warm of temps for it to stay.



If it stayed for 6 months a year with its friend frigid....you would probly like snow less.


----------



## Beekissed

misfitmorgan said:


> Maybe I will suggest that this christmas.....though he will be buying himself a truck tire before then. We do try to get useful things like last year he got bibs, work boots, and wool socks, year before he got a stanley "every bit and ratchet in many sizes known including deep well metric and standard known to man" set, yeah before that was a set of ridgid cordless drills. I just don't think we have ever though about hardware for presents!
> 
> 
> 
> If it stayed for 6 months a year with its friend frigid....you would probly like snow less.



Nah...used to be like that here when I was growing up and I loved it all the same.  Had to work out in it and walk a mile to bus stop in it, up hill and down, and though it was uncomfortable, it was still lovely all the same.    Used to start snowing in Oct. and snow stayed on and was still falling in April.   I've had to watch July fireworks while wearing a winter jacket.    Used to live where the snow actually buried our house to the eaves and we had to dig a tunnel to climb out and slide into the house.  Still love the snow!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Beekissed said:


> Nah...used to be like that here when I was growing up and I loved it all the same.  Had to work out in it and walk a mile to bus stop in it, up hill and down, and though it was uncomfortable, it was still lovely all the same.    Used to start snowing in Oct. and snow stayed on and was still falling in April.   I've had to watch July fireworks while wearing a winter jacket.    Used to live where the snow actually buried our house to the eaves and we had to dig a tunnel to climb out and slide into the house.  Still love the snow!



Oh as a kid I loved it too.....as an adult is when it wore off. That and the -47F days are a trial. We got our first snow on Oct 30th and we always have one last snow/ice storm after mothers day so May something.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I know @Beekissed  we can switch...I will live in WV and you can come live in MI


----------



## misfitmorgan

This was dinner last night....Jerk chicken with jasmine rice and seasoned black beans, it was so good


----------



## Mike CHS

That looks super tasty.  We have some black bean and sirloin chili going in the instant pot.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> That looks super tasty.  We have some black bean and sirloin chili going in the instant pot.



Ooohhh that sounds good too!


----------



## Beekissed

misfitmorgan said:


> I know @Beekissed  we can switch...I will live in WV and you can come live in MI



No thanks....I generally live where I LOVE to live.  If I didn't love to live here, no matter the season or reason, I'd move.    Never did understand why folks insist on living where they hate the weather for 6 mo. out of the year.


----------



## Baymule

I love Texas! Specifically, I love East Texas!! 6 months of snow? We don't even get 6 days of snow.


----------



## Mike CHS

I lived and worked in Michigan for 3 years in the mid 70's and loved it but I was in my 20's and used to hard labor. That was in Flint and Brighton and I loved the fishing and hunting there but it's much easier now that i can stay thawed out in Tennessee.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I love Texas! Specifically, I love East Texas!! 6 months of snow? We don't even get 6 days of snow.



You know, I rarely ever hear southern folks complain about the heat.  But, in my state and further north everyone seems to dread winter...and we don't even HAVE the winters we used to have anymore.   I keep hoping for them every year but each year they get more and more mild.   Not sure what they'd do if we had a winter like we used to get......I keep hoping we will so folks will appreciate what they have now.   Used to we never saw the ground until May and even then some pathways and roads didn't melt off until June.   Now we are lucky if we get a snow that sticks or lasts past a few days.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Beekissed said:


> No thanks....I generally live where I LOVE to live.  If I didn't love to live here, no matter the season or reason, I'd move.    Never did understand why folks insist on living where they hate the weather for 6 mo. out of the year.



I would love to move but until my parents estate is taken care of I'm stuck here...second problem is employment in another state at or near my current pay is not likely. We do want to move we just have to wait. I was here for my family now with my mom dying in May and my dad dying in september not much reason. I moved back when my real dad got ill, then my mom found a tumor on hr breast, then my brother killed himself, then my mom was trying to fight cancer with natural methods, then she died, my step-dad had a drop-dead heart attack in september with no warning. So yeah as much as I hate it here I couldn't abandon my family during all of that. We will probly be stuck here for another couple of years to get things in order to sell our house then move down someplace south, not sure where yet.



Mike CHS said:


> I lived and worked in Michigan for 3 years in the mid 70's and loved it but I was in my 20's and used to hard labor. That was in Flint and Brighton and I loved the fishing and hunting there but it's much easier now that i can stay thawed out in Tennessee.



My sister-in-law lives in flint and complains about how cold it is everytime she comes up here. Flint is usually 15-20F warmer and with a lot more rain instead of snow.  For me the older I get the more I hurt and the more I dis-like the cold and snow...DH is starting to agree a lot.



Beekissed said:


> You know, I rarely ever hear southern folks complain about the heat.  But, in my state and further north everyone seems to dread winter...and we don't even HAVE the winters we used to have anymore.   I keep hoping for them every year but each year they get more and more mild.   Not sure what they'd do if we had a winter like we used to get......I keep hoping we will so folks will appreciate what they have now.   Used to we never saw the ground until May and even then some pathways and roads didn't melt off until June.   Now we are lucky if we get a snow that sticks or lasts past a few days.



I recall many posts of people down south complaining of the heat..esp the last week or two because its still in the 80s and 90s 

I dunno I don't think any place is ever perfect for weather all the time, I just want something more middling on temps.


----------



## Baymule

80’s and 90’s is nice weather. 95+ is hot, 100’s is awful. Fortunately there usually isn’t many 100* days. I’d rather have the heat than piles of snow for months. I suggest you move south in the winter so you can acclimate as summer heats up, better than coming into a hot cookie oven. LOL


----------



## Beekissed

misfitmorgan said:


> I would love to love but until my parents estate is taken care of I'm stuck here...second problem is employee in another state at or near my current pay is not likely. We do want to move we just have to wait. I was here for my family now with my mom dying in May and my dad dying in september not much reason. I moved back when my real dad got ill, then my mom found a tumor on hr breast, then my brother killed himself, then my mom was trying to fight cancer with natural methods, then she died, my step-dad had a drop-dead heart attack in september with no warning. So yeah as much as I hate it here I couldn't abandon my family during all of that. We will probly be stuck here for another couple of years to get things in order to sell our house then move down someplace south, not sure where yet.
> 
> 
> 
> My sister-in-law lives in flint and complains about how cold it is everytime she comes up here. Flint is usually 15-20F warmer and with a lot more rain instead of snow.  For me the older I get the more I hurt and the more I dis-like the cold and snow...DH is starting to agree a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> I recall many posts of people down south complaining of the heat..esp the last week or two because its still in the 80s and 90s
> 
> I dunno I don't think any place is ever perfect for weather all the time, I just want something more middling on temps.



Come live in the middle, MM!   It's good in the middle.       The best of both worlds...get some cold, get some heat, but mostly it's in the middling on temps.   Pay is not good, but the cost of living isn't as high either.   Taxes are fairly cheap here too.


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## misfitmorgan

Beekissed said:


> Come live in the middle, MM!   It's good in the middle.       The best of both worlds...get some cold, get some heat, but mostly it's in the middling on temps.   Pay is not good, but the cost of living isn't as high either.   Taxes are fairly cheap here too.



Looks like most anything I can find in WV that would be in our price range is in the sticks and I mean sticks like "driveway" and "road" are 2 tracks and the houses are all "fixer uppers". Most are all woods it looks like from google. Found 2 that might work but I have a question.....is it normal for a road to go thru your yard  and around your house and then to a neighbors house? I would simply assume it is a shared driveway but the mailbox is by the house which would be up the driveway...just seems odd. Maybe when everything is settled we could afford to look at moving. As far as i know one or both of us would require jobs where ever we are moving to be able to get a home loan so it would be tricky.


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## Mike CHS

We have an access lane that goes through our property that serves as an emergency exit/entry in the event that the railroad tracks at our neighbors is not open.  We control it via a gate that the neighbor has a keep to the lock so we can keep people out at other times.  That same railroad track goes in a tunnel UNDER our driveway on our property.


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## Beekissed

misfitmorgan said:


> Looks like most anything I can find in WV that would be in our price range is in the sticks and I mean sticks like "driveway" and "road" are 2 tracks and the houses are all "fixer uppers". Most are all woods it looks like from google. Found 2 that might work but I have a question....*.is it normal for a road to go thru your yard  and around your house and then to a neighbors house?* I would simply assume it is a shared driveway but the mailbox is by the house which would be up the driveway...just seems odd. Maybe when everything is settled we could afford to look at moving. As far as i know one or both of us would require jobs where ever we are moving to be able to get a home loan so it would be tricky.



Yes!   Most often these are homes that were part of a larger tract of land~say a farm or homestead~that had several family members living on the same place, but that family has passed out of time and memory, leaving a farm that was divided up and sold by heirs.  The only way in or out, due to the mountains, hollers and ridges, are often these roads or old logging roads that lead to the properties beyond.  

Our home is the same way....it's part of our original homestead, but was retained after the bulk of it was sold to another person.  We share an access road with a few neighbors and absentee owners, but the county does not maintain our access road, nor do the neighbors.... we have born the sole responsibility for it for many a long year.  If we don't do it, no one will.   That's one problem with shared access, so I'd avoid those properties if you could.    An upside to it is that they know everything that is going on at your place and will watch it for you while you are gone....no thieves breaking in, no hunters or 4 wheelers trespassing, etc.  

Back in the sticks has its advantages.....PEACE and quiet!!!!   Very little problems with neighbors because they aren't right up on you.   People come to your home to get away from it all, but it's so far out they don't make a habit of it nor overstay their welcome.   Everything is a far drive~stores, churches, schools, work~but the upside is that everything is far away from you and you grow to LOVE that. 

You won't hear the neighbors barking dogs, their loud revving of engines until 2 am, their verbal battles,  their too loud music, traffic noise or sawmills.   You WILL hear the whippoorwills, the owls, the coyotes, the night birds and bugs, the wind in the pines and aspen, the faint tinkling of the wind chimes, and rain on the roof.   Even the sound of the snow as it falls....you can actually HEAR it snow.  
 So WORTH it!


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## misfitmorgan

Where we live is kind of similar as far as neighbors being far away.Across the road is a private gated community and we are on the forest end of it so the closest house to the south over there is about 4 miles, to the north on that side it is about 3/4-1 miles. on our side of the road the north neighbor is 1+ mile and the south neighbor is around 1/2 mile, then to the east behind us there is the 10 point club which is a 80 acre hunting club and only has people on it during deer hunting season and the last 4 acres between them and us is swamp/marsh. The only neighbor thing we ever hear is the south neighbor's dog barking sometimes or the north neighbor working in a field and mowing a little strip of grass about twice a year.

I do like the quiet no neighbors part of things and the fact you cant even see any other houses from anyplace on our property. But the snow..no...6F today when I got up.


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## misfitmorgan

We got 4-5" of snow yesterday/last night and it is very very cold which is nor normal for us. Typically we are in the mid-upps 40s up to mid-50s at this time of year. Yesterday's high was 26, todays is 25 and tomorrows is 27....it was 63 two weeks ago
Forecast says we will be in the 30s and very low 40s after wednesday until mid december. 

DH and I have been talking I lean pretty heavily towards tennesee and he wants something near enough to reasonably drive to the Mississippi river for day fishing. I assume it will be a couple of years before we can really move so for now it is just bide our time. 

The job offer in texas for DH didnt work out so that sucks. I've been looking for other options but nothing good so far.


----------



## Baymule

Look at all your options, make tentative plans and preparations. Look for jobs, land & house. In my experience, it will all come together when it is supposed to.


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## CntryBoy777

There is nice areas between Dyersburg and Reelfoot....it is along the TN/KY line close to the river....and not far from Kentucky Lake area....I would stay above Covington if fishing the Mississippi River, just sayin.....


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Look at all your options, make tentative plans and preparations. Look for jobs, land & house. In my experience, it will all come together when it is supposed to.





CntryBoy777 said:


> There is nice areas between Dyersburg and Reelfoot....it is along the TN/KY line close to the river....and not far from Kentucky Lake area....I would stay above Covington if fishing the Mississippi River, just sayin.....


Thank you both for the advice. Atm we couldn't move...we need to buy a livestock trailer or some kind before moving oh and have some money for a down payment


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## Baymule

I have jumped out in the middle of thin air so many times it ain't funny. I am careful, calculating, examine everything before making a move, then I go and do something totally off the wall and somehow, it turns out ok. LOL But it is kinda hard to move livestock hundreds of miles in the back seat. Even I wouldn't do that.   Buying our trailer was a good investment.


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## misfitmorgan

DH brought the sheep and goats back on Sunday. Almost every single one looks good!! Only two who seemed a bit skinny were the white lamb and dukette. We are waiting for the warm up coming supposedly this weekend to worm and do ear tags for those missing them still. Goats looks like they need their hooves looked at as well but sheep are good as they were trimmed when they got sheared.

We may have some out of season lambs as I just found out 3 days ago that the mutts are according to the previous owner...not seasonal  Some are looking pretty wide already but so do the goats so i'm hoping they are all just fat 

Made ribs for dinner oh they were so so good. Since we were low on pork i picked up some ribs on BOGO at meijers so I got 3 dinners plus enough left for 2-3 lunches of ribs for $13.....here is a picture of DHs plate     they were really nice and over an inch thick even on the "thin" end


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I have jumped out in the middle of thin air so many times it ain't funny. I am careful, calculating, examine everything before making a move, then I go and do something totally off the wall and somehow, it turns out ok. LOL But it is kinda hard to move livestock hundreds of miles in the back seat. Even I wouldn't do that.   Buying our trailer was a good investment.



I have too just trying to be different this time....adulting sucks


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## Baymule

Haha, I've always been crazy-it works for me. But sometimes it is the best thing to be prepared. A move like that would have to have some of the details worked out, then be ready to roll with the punches because things always go awry and not according to plan.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Haha, I've always been crazy-it works for me. But sometimes it is the best thing to be prepared. A move like that would have to have some of the details worked out, then be ready to roll with the punches because things always go awry and not according to plan.



I know all two well how awry things can go after the whole buying a house fisaco here.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah it is a lot easier to move if you live in an apartment and have maybe 1 house pet.


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## misfitmorgan

Did all of you miss the post with ribs or what? Forget the moving advice there will be time for that later......there is food up there that we are not talking about  

Can you tell it's getting close to lunch time at work?


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## Bruce

Didn't miss it, just jealous! Looks good. Like other things, if I wanted that I'd be making 2 dinners. One for me and one for the others. I'm not all that fond of cooking after being the "head chef" for the last 40 years that I want to make more than one meal at a time.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Didn't miss it, just jealous! Looks good. Like other things, if I wanted that I'd be making 2 dinners. One for me and one for the others. I'm not all that fond of cooking after being the "head chef" for the last 40 years that I want to make more than one meal at a time.



I'm less nice...I make what i want to eat and if someone doesn't like it they can make their own food. 

Respecting someones food needs and wishes is a two way street. I will respect that someone is a vegan or a vegetarian or has a diet restriction or allergy as long as they respect that I DON'T and don't make rude comments or be a butt when things are not to their liking. Thats called selfish and laziness. And no that doesn't mean i am going to cook food for you 29 of 30 days and then 1 day for myself


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## B&B Happy goats

The food looked great so I went and pulled out a pork roast, my husband says thank you  for the inspiration  !


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## Mike CHS

misfitmorgan said:


> Made ribs for dinner oh they were so so good. Since we were low on pork i picked up some ribs on BOGO at meijers so I got 3 dinners plus enough left for 2-3 lunches of ribs for $13.....here is a picture of DHs plate     they were really nice and over an inch thick even on the "thin" end



I just got caught up and had to quit drooling before saying that is a nice looking plate.


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## misfitmorgan

B&B Happy goats said:


> The food looked great so I went and pulled out a pork roast, my husband says thank you  for the inspiration  !



Very glad I could help. I'm not sure what we are having for dinner tonight. If anyone has a meijers by you the meijers brand whole turkey are on sale for the next 4 days at 33cents/LB, honeysuckle is 69/LB and butterball is 99/LB.


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## B&B Happy goats

misfitmorgan said:


> Very glad I could help. I'm not sure what we are having for dinner tonight. If anyone has a meijers by you the meijers brand whole turkey are on sale for the next 4 days at 33cents/LB, honeysuckle is 69/LB and butterball is 99/LB.


Dang it, no meijers here, I have been looking for turkey on sale, ....have a great dinner and stay warm. We are up to 72 inside the house now without any heat on, I have a swearshirt and leggings on and am cold lol, I would die if I had to move back to New England !


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## misfitmorgan

B&B Happy goats said:


> Dang it, no meijers here, I have been looking for turkey on sale, ....have a great dinner and stay warm. We are up to 72 inside the house now without any heat on, I have a swearshirt and leggings on and am cold lol, I would die if I had to move back to New England !



Butterball premium whole turkey at walmart is 98/LB if you have a walmart.


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## B&B Happy goats

misfitmorgan said:


> Butterball premium whole turkey at walmart is 98/LB if you have a walmart.


Will have to check, was there last week and no sale, will go tommrow...thank you !


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I will respect that someone is a vegan or a vegetarian or has a diet restriction or allergy as long as they respect that I DON'T and don't make rude comments or be a butt when things are not to their liking.


That would be DD1, vegetarian and issues with gluten and nightshades. She doesn't bug us about eating meat though has expressed her opinion that people don't need to, and shouldn't, eat meat. It is an emotional thing with her, nothing more. She was kind of on her own for dinner many a night. Now it is the food prep people at college that get to deal with her restrictions. When she is home we do what we can to do gluten free stuff, some aren't too hard. Kinnikinnick has a VERY good pancake/waffle/crepe mix.


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## misfitmorgan

Went shopping yesterday and stocked up on meat and butter. Butter was on sale at meijer for 2.79/lb and they still had ribs on buy one get one so i got 2 more racks. Also got myself a 14lb turkey for $5 and a lot of other good deals like frozen veggies for 0.79 a bag. So things like milk aside we should have enough food stuff until febuary or march. 

I have 11lbs of bread flour left so when i go back to meijers for their Saturday sale on the 30th I will go across the road to walmart and pick up another 20lbs. Why am I going to meijers you ask?? They are advertising 5lb bags of flour and 4lb bags of white sugar for 99 so I will be going to get 50lbs of flour and 40lbs of sugar. The flour will go in the freezer and the sugar will go into a plastic bin in the cabinet.

The whole goal here is to need no trips to the next town over until winter is pretty well done and avoid all the little trips and buying so much stuff locally at pretty inflated prices. At our local store to make one simple meal I have paid $30 the same items at a meijer or walmart cost be less then $20. I am all for supporting local and we do on most things and always buy the locally grown stuff the local stores sell but the self stable goods no I am not paying double or more what they are at big box stores.


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## Baymule

You are doing some good shopping! I like deals like that. We buy practically no meat, but since we don't raise beef, we buy rib eyes every so often. That is about all the meat we buy. Since we like chicken fried steak (round steak) I am now having the leg of lamb cut into steaks, tenderized and that is my chicken fried steak now.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> You are doing some good shopping! I like deals like that. We buy practically no meat, but since we don't raise beef, we buy rib eyes every so often. That is about all the meat we buy. Since we like chicken fried steak (round steak) I am now having the leg of lamb cut into steaks, tenderized and that is my chicken fried steak now.



Thank you.

Normally we dont buy pork or chicken. Since we have no pigs to slaughter atm and were almost out of pork i had to buy some. The only things left from our pigs are 2 roasts, one pork steak, 2 half hams, 5lbs of breakfast sausage and maybe 4 lbs of bacon. We often have a work friend of DHs over to help out with stuff around the farm and projects, DH pays him a modest amount and then we pay him the rest in food usually pork and canned stuff so that has helped us go thru it faster. We didnt end up raising chickens this year or last so we ran out of that long ago, we had 2 ducks slated for freezer camp but then a predator got them.

We are hoping this year to raise 2 batches of meat birds, repopulate our ducks, get turkeys and maybe a calf depending how things go. We do have a lamb destined for butcher but the weather needs to cooperate first. We also need to get a deer or two. Since we have moved our second chest freezer hasnt even been plugged in...thats how behind on meat/freezer stuff we got. I also need to go to my parents and clean out their chest freezer soon and I have no clue what is in it.

I think Sara's gilts will end up being butchered, we will see as winter goes on.


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## misfitmorgan

Also forgot to tell you guys Sarah had piglets, 4 of them and didnt bother to feed them or care a toot about them at all. So we got a heat lamp up and a bang board up. Then we went to feed Stubby and guess what...she had her piglets too. She had 9 and this was her first litter, she pulled down a bale of hay and massive over nested so she lost 3 before we found them. The 6 that were left had been well fed and were active despite the cold. Sara's piglets looked like it was probly already to late for them but we hoped warming them would help. 

We ended up pulling sara and putting her with the boar along with hereford girl and then putting stubby and her 6 babies in the pen with sara's piglets. We covered everyone in baby powder and left them alone. Stubby being a first time mom seems to not have understood how to lay down without being on her piglets because she was trying to lay really close to them. By the next morning we were from 10 piglets down to 4 piglets. All of sara's died despite being bigger then stubby's piglets.

That makes 3 bad litters for sara, DH was ready to put her in a stall and feed her up for 3 weeks then butcher her. That is his favorite pig even with all her bad behavior. I suggested she just go in with the boar and if she doesnt give a good litter of spring piglets she is done. I am seeing a pattern with Sara though, it seems like if she has fall piglets they dont do well and she doesnt want to care for them, her spring piglets she is a good mom typically...it's odd.

Stubby will be forgiven for her bad mom tendencies because the second day she was trying hard to lay down slowly and gently which i'm sure is a feat when you weigh 300+lbs. The first time is always a roll of the dice with any livestock. Sweetie one of our best Ewe moms actually had zero mother instincts when she had be first lamb(maggie and turned out great for all the rest after that.


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## farmerjan

With the cold it is easy to forgive Stubby trying to be a mom when they are first learning to lay down with piglets.  The cold and making a nest makes it hard to hear the piglets when they lay on them because they can't feel them with all the bedding.

I'm with your DH about feeding the other sow and putting her in the freezer.  3 bad litters?   The second litter would have been her ticket out, here.   You need the meat, why are you once again going to put time and money into a sow that cannot, will not  raise a litter?  Put her "feed costs" into a better female.  You are throwing good money after bad.  
Sorry, just my opinion, but you are trying to provide for yourself and the family, and you are trying to buy sensibly and stock up to get through the winter.  Why feed a sow that is costing you, not just money, but in emotional upset.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> With the cold it is easy to forgive Stubby trying to be a mom when they are first learning to lay down with piglets.  The cold and making a nest makes it hard to hear the piglets when they lay on them because they can't feel them with all the bedding.
> 
> I'm with your DH about feeding the other sow and putting her in the freezer.  3 bad litters?   The second litter would have been her ticket out, here.   You need the meat, why are you once again going to put time and money into a sow that cannot, will not  raise a litter?  Put her "feed costs" into a better female.  You are throwing good money after bad.
> Sorry, just my opinion, but you are trying to provide for yourself and the family, and you are trying to buy sensibly and stock up to get through the winter.  Why feed a sow that is costing you, not just money, but in emotional upset.



The main reason is really because she is close enough to give us spring piglets. We already have registered replacement gilts but they need time to grow as they were only born this summer. Also it is DHs favorite pig, which financially is a stupid reason I know. If she had 2 bad litters back to back she would have been gone. She has had a total of 7 litters now and 3 have been bad, those 3 have been spaced out with good ones between. That's the frustrating part like she is deciding when to be a mom or not. The other downside is because of her age (4+yrs old) and size 450+lbs she will have to be all ground and a few roasts. 

Honestly it's also to cold outside to want to spend that much time out there in the snow. Skinning pigs that large is not a fast process.


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## Bruce

Sounds like Sara needs to be restricted to spring litters. Of course that doesn't make her a financial plus having only one litter a year but at least you don't have the heartache of dying litters in the fall.



misfitmorgan said:


> Why am I going to meijers you ask??


Actually I'm wondering why you are going to Wally World to buy more flour after buying 50# at Meijer.



Baymule said:


> Since we like chicken fried steak


If there is no chicken in it and it isn't fried by chickens, why is it called chicken fried steak?


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Sounds like Sara needs to be restricted to spring litters. Of course that doesn't make her a financial plus having only one litter a year but at least you don't have the heartache of dying litters in the fall.
> 
> 
> Actually I'm wondering why you are going to Wally World to buy more flour after buying 50# at Meijer.
> 
> 
> If there is no chicken in it and it isn't fried by chickens, why is it called chicken fried steak?



Because Meijer's is all purpose flour for 99 cents. I also need bread flour which is cheaper at walmart then bread flour at meijers.

It's chicken fried - steak as in steak fried like chicken    It actually varies by region/preference weather it is beef or pork cube steak used.  I've had both I think beef is better.


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## farmerjan

Sometimes I have to laugh at @Bruce 's posts.... he takes things so literally... even more so than me. I must've missed or forgotten that she has also given you some good litters.... But a 450 sow doesn't have to be mostly ground.... I had a sow done up into everything normal and she dressed at over 550... chops were HUGE.... most hogs don't get "tough" with age. I can see the possibilities of a spring litter....hope she is an "easy keeper" so that it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg to feed her through your cold winter....


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> If there is no chicken in it and it isn't fried by chickens, why is it called chicken fried steak?



Don't you have chicken fried steak in Vermont? In Texas, cafes are judged by their chicken fried steak! Chicken fried steak is round steak, tenderized, breaded and fried to a golden brown.  Yum! 



misfitmorgan said:


> It's chicken fried - steak as in steak fried like chicken    It actually varies by region/preference weather it is beef or pork cube steak used.  I've had both I think beef is better.



You nailed it, except that pork is not chicken fried steak! LOL I suspect that my lamb chicken fried steak is a Texas culinary travesty.


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## Bruce

We probably do Bay, I just don't understand the naming of it. "Cooked like fried chicken" is a reasonable answer though like fried Oreos and the many other battered and fried foods (mostly "fair food"), I don't know why one would want to do that to beef.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

For what it's worth, chicken fried steak is one of my favorite meals: chicken fried steak, milk flour gravy, pan fried potatoes, hot bisquits, and sweetened tea.  That is what I had for my birthday present this year.


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## Bruce

That is quite an endorsement!


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> We probably do Bay, I just don't understand the naming of it. "Cooked like fried chicken" is a reasonable answer though like fried Oreos and the many other battered and fried foods (mostly "fair food"), I don't know why one would want to do that to beef.


 How do you prepare round steak? It's not exactly a tender cut like a rib eye or T bone. Round steak is _supposed _to be tenderized and chicken fried. I have aluminum mallets that I use to beat the smack out of the steak, if I don't buy it already tenderized. When my kids were small, I stood them on chairs pulled up to the kitchen counter and gave each of them a mallet. They delightedly beat the steak, with each blow yelling POW! POW! They called it Pow Pow steak. Daughter was 11 years old when she finally asked me, "Just what kind of meat _is_ Pow Pow steak?"


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## Bruce

I guess I don't buy anything that needs to be Pow Powed??


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Sometimes I have to laugh at @Bruce 's posts.... he takes things so literally... even more so than me. I must've missed or forgotten that she has also given you some good litters.... But a 450 sow doesn't have to be mostly ground.... I had a sow done up into everything normal and she dressed at over 550... chops were HUGE.... most hogs don't get "tough" with age. I can see the possibilities of a spring litter....hope she is an "easy keeper" so that it doesn't cost you an arm and a leg to feed her through your cold winter....


Normally I agree with you however her age is more so the concern she is at least 4 yrs old. The pig we butchered earlier this year was in the same boat age wise and only slightly bigger....she was tough as nails. I mean you could hardly chew the meat, DH cut a 3 pork steaks out of her and after trying to cook and eat the first one,the other two went in the grinder. The roasts were best for pulled pork and cooked for 8+hrs. I even tried pressure cooking as small roast....no, it needs time. It's really odd because our other big pigs we have butchered were not any more noticeably tougher then the 250-300lb pigs. That pig was also a york cross though and we have never had york anything. She is an easy keeper all of our breeders are, they only eat about 4lbs/day each to maintain good weight.



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> For what it's worth, chicken fried steak is one of my favorite meals: chicken fried steak, milk flour gravy, pan fried potatoes, hot bisquits, and sweetened tea.  That is what I had for my birthday present this year.


One of my all time favorite meals as well....gotta have biscuits and gravy with it.  



Baymule said:


> How do you prepare round steak? It's not exactly a tender cut like a rib eye or T bone. Round steak is _supposed _to be tenderized and chicken fried. I have aluminum mallets that I use to beat the smack out of the steak, if I don't buy it already tenderized. When my kids were small, I stood them on chairs pulled up to the kitchen counter and gave each of them a mallet. They delightedly beat the steak, with each blow yelling POW! POW! They called it Pow Pow steak. Daughter was 11 years old when she finally asked me, "Just what kind of meat _is_ Pow Pow steak?"



They may just have round steak as roasts? I've bought those here in the store before, in fact I'm using an eye of round roast tonight to make fajitas.....i could probly say a little off and make chicken fried steak and biscuits tomorrow


----------



## misfitmorgan

Oh...also I should mention I need to start a kidding/lambing thread.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Also some sad news.

We lost Big Boy. I think I mentioned someplace about him getting his head wedged between a wall and a metal post in their shelter? He had been there awhile she we got him out of the shelter and put him on his feet. He was a bit wobbly for a minute but then did some stretching and walking around. He went to the hay pile and ate....seemed a little stiff but fine and not overly bloated. This was friday after work.
Saturday morning DH came inside and said come help me with Big boy, I said is he stuck again? He said no he's down. So i got out there and saw him laying flat on his side inside the shelter...never good. DH carried him to the barn and propped him up into a normal position on a pile of hay. He gave him water, food, and hay...Big Boy ate a little. He was bright and clear eyed, responsive, so we thought ok maybe he is just in shock from his experience the day before. DH checked on him all threw the day and reported Big Boy was up and walking around a bit by early afternoon. DH gave him fresh water that night which Big Boy drank. Sunday morning he went out to check and found him stone cold dead.

The only reasonable thing I can think is he got whooped by the big ram while he was stuck in the shelter and had internal injuries we couldnt see. DH asked if I wanted him to check for cause and I told him no, just didnt seem like it would help anything.

Our entire herd is/was in the best shape we have ever seen them...still losses though.

Also I think I mentioned Ivy tried to jump the fence the day after she came home, her back hoof got caught in the fence and the wire twisted around her hoof. DH found her first and cut her loose then put her in the barn. She has been limping since but started putting a bit of weight on it 3 days ago.

Been busy around here so I forget what i tell you guys and what I...well forget.


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## misfitmorgan

Everyone seems to be doing well today. Suppose to be 46F today so hopefully we can get outside and get a few things done.


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## Baymule

I'm sorry about big boy. Poor guy, got stuck and beat up. You do the best you can, and you still have to deal with animal behavior. It is not Big Boy's fault he got stuck, that's just one of those dumb things they do. It's not the ram's fault either, it's his nature to "ram". It doesn't make it any easier to deal with, just one of those dumb things.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I'm sorry about big boy. Poor guy, got stuck and beat up. You do the best you can, and you still have to deal with animal behavior. It is not Big Boy's fault he got stuck, that's just one of those dumb things they do. It's not the ram's fault either, it's his nature to "ram". It doesn't make it any easier to deal with, just one of those dumb things.



It was definitely dumb, He is the only critter to have ever gotten stuck in the shelter. The shelter was a carport and they build a wood building around/over it, I have no idea what the logic there was because they build it like a full on wood building but sitting on the ground instead of posts into the ground. The metal carport posts are starting to buckle and the building is shifting, part of our last minute winter still is to brace it up and build a solid end wall. We are hoping to tear it down in the spring and build something else as the only really good part left is the roof which is wood and shingles.

We have had a warm up and almost all of the snow is gone. Low 40s and sunny Saturday and Sunday so we are hoping to get some things done if it doesnt change.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Got Garlic planted on saturday...11 bulbs worth




So the garlic is started   

Got my first 1:48 scale model kit finished and DH insisted I ordered another when he saw how delighted I was with it. I love it because the parts are so tiny, i have a set of craft tweezers i had to use to build it all. I've been pretty depressed so I guess he was happy to see me taking joy in something like a model. I bought and started this model the end of March, when mom got really sick at the end I packed it up and put it away. 






Its not perfect but i do love it. To give you an idea of it's size that entire tin box is the size of a cell phone.


----------



## Baymule

That model is pretty, I like it.

Of all places, I ordered garlic on Amazon yesterday. I was looking at something totally unrelated to garlic, when bags of garlic showed up. I bought 2 pounds for $9. I want to plant some for us and some in a pasture to see if the sheep will eat it. It's part of my diabolical plans to plant a herb garden for the sheep. LOL

I hope you do well with the garlic and that you get LOTS of it! You have some nice rich looking soil.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That model is pretty, I like it.
> 
> Of all places, I ordered garlic on Amazon yesterday. I was looking at something totally unrelated to garlic, when bags of garlic showed up. I bought 2 pounds for $9. I want to plant some for us and some in a pasture to see if the sheep will eat it. It's part of my diabolical plans to plant a herb garden for the sheep. LOL
> 
> I hope you do well with the garlic and that you get LOTS of it! You have some nice rich looking soil.



I bought the garlic at walmart for $3.78/lb from the loose garlic bin and the elephant garlic was $1.98 for one bulb. Hopefully we grow lots and have enough to plant again next year.

The soil is very sandy but it does seem to grow things well and we have put compost on it once and manure on it once.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I also made Bibimbap for dinner last night and brought the leftover for lunch today 




There is jasmine rice under there.....


----------



## Mike CHS

I bet that tastes as good as it looks.  I like it topped with kimchi also.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Wow @misfitmorgan, that looks great!!  What are all of the ingredients?


----------



## Bruce

I'm very glad it gave you pleasure! You have had way too much bad in going on for a long time I could not work with anything that small.



Baymule said:


> It's part of my diabolical plans to plant a herb garden for the sheep.


Letting them worm themselves!



misfitmorgan said:


> bought the garlic at walmart for $3.78/lb


I bought onion sets from Wally world last year and got nothing. Won't make that mistake again. Hope your garlic does better.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> I bet that tastes as good as it looks.  I like it topped with kimchi also.



Thank you, we love kimchi!!



HomeOnTheRange said:


> Wow @misfitmorgan, that looks great!!  What are all of the ingredients?



The "toppings" are cucumbers, ground beef, mushrooms, green onions, kimchi, toasted sesame seeds, the sliced radishes are quick pickled in seasoned rice vinegar and pepper, and the quartered radishes are boiled then topped with a "sauce" made from seasoned rice vinegar, low sodium soy sauce, and sesame oil.  The cucumber is quick pickled in seasoned rice vinegar, salt, pepper, and lemon grass puree. Beef was fried with garlic, salt, pepper, green onions, ginger, sesame oil and low sodium soy sauce. Mushrooms were fried with pepper and low sodium soy sauce. The mix of textures then hot and cold, along with the sweet, savory, sour, and spicy is wonderful. You should try it sometime, i didnt follow a recipe but there are tons online. You can put really anything you like on top. Bulgogi is also good if you ever want to try that.
I prefer both with a raw egg yolk versus a fried eggs but to each their own, the egg yolk really brings a nice creamy rich flavor to it though.



Bruce said:


> I bought onion sets from Wally world last year and got nothing. Won't make that mistake again. Hope your garlic does better.



This was just garlic from the grocery side, we get our onion sets from the local feed mill, never had a problem yet. For potatoes we just buy a bag of regular potatoes and cut them up then plant. Planning on reds and yukon gold this year if things go well.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The high today is 15F  ........that is all.


----------



## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> The high today is 15F  ........that is all.


Your high is the worst low we get in a winter. It usually comes with snow. Then it is like Mother Nature gets embarrassed and gets busy melting the snow away and warming up. It is 30* outside right now, but the sun is shining and it will warm up to low 50's today. I like our winters and i'll take the heat of August because I know September is on the way. LOL


----------



## Bruce

Our high today will be high 20's which is where it started. Low tonight 3°, high tomorrow 10°


----------



## Baymule

Every location has it's plusses and minuses. We all adapt to where we live and think it is the best place. If we don't like it, we move. Nowhere is perfect, but we find where we want to be and be happy.


----------



## misfitmorgan

This weather is insane....today is suppose to be 37f then 38f saturday and 40f sunday and monday.

I'm getting worried about the livestock with all the crazy temperature shifts I am getting concerned they will pick up pneumonia. 4yrs ago phoebe did get pneumonia thankfully she recovered from it just fine. I'm wondering if i should just vaccinate the young ones in case but i dont know the down side of the pneumonia vaccine. Any have any info on it or use it much? We have left the new door DH made on the far end of the barn open to help with ventilation but i'm not sure that will be enough. 

We will be going to my sisters Saturday for a Christmas dinner before she leaves town for her in-laws. I'm also hoping to get CDT done of the new kids on either saturday or sunday as well as clean out the big pens and put up a new light. Depending on how things go it would be nice to do some fixing to the sheep/goat shed as well to enclose it more. I'm very paranoid about lambs being born outside and with the odd birth times I really have no idea when they are due.


----------



## Baymule

Have a good time at your sister’s for Christmas dinner. Hope you get modifications on the sheep and goat shelter done. Most of my ewes lamb outside. Some will go in the barn up in the tiny shelter that was my first effort. If I had your weather, I’d lock them up!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Have a good time at your sister’s for Christmas dinner. Hope you get modifications on the sheep and goat shelter done. Most of my ewes lamb outside. Some will go in the barn up in the tiny shelter that was my first effort. If I had your weather, I’d lock them up!



Thanks Bay.

I am very tempted to lock them up, problem there is if i lock them up they will be in the barn until at least march. That would be 16 ewes/does sharing a pretty small space and trying to lamb/kid for about 4 months which seems like a really bad idea. 

I'm going to try to convince DH to let me set up lambing jugs in the bottom of the 2-story because he is going to want to use my pens for the pigs come about febuary and I won't have any place to put the sheep/goats. If he agrees to let me use the 2-story that would work out pretty great. I mean he already has piglets in my other pen that is suppose to be for kidding/lambing.


----------



## Bruce

If he can take over your lambing/kidding pens for his pigs, you can take over the lower part of the barn. Fair is fair.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> If he can take over your lambing/kidding pens for his pigs, you can take over the lower part of the barn. Fair is fair.


That was my thought.....


----------



## misfitmorgan

Anyone know what company/brand @babsbag got her barn from? I'm looking into it as an option here for our sheep/goat barn and the first thing the sales guy tried to do was upsell me.  He told me the one I was looking at didn't come with an offical snow load rating so he wouldnt recommend it for our area and I should go with a welded truss design(which is double the price).
I know Babs collapsed from snow so I'm just wondering what brand it was and what design, if anyone knows. I didnt see it in her journal but I didn't go back super far.


----------



## babsbag

Mine was a clearspan brand from Farmtec.  We had 14" of heavy snow that night and I think that it would have been ok but it was built on a pony wall and one side wall was compromised already. The dirt on one side was fill and not compacted enough and it was already leaning. The snow put extra outward pressure on the wall and it went horizontal and then it was the "zipper affect" after that.  I can't prove any of this of course but it is my gut feeling.  We built another one but this time we put 1400 lb ecology blocks up against the posts of the pony wall so there is no leaning this time.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Mine was a clearspan brand from Farmtec.  We had 14" of heavy snow that night and I think that it would have been ok but it was built on a pony wall and one side wall was compromised already. The dirt on one side was fill and not compacted enough and it was already leaning. The snow put extra outward pressure on the wall and it went horizontal and then it was the "zipper affect" after that.  I can't prove any of this of course but it is my gut feeling.  We built another one but this time we put 1400 lb ecology blocks up against the posts of the pony wall so there is no leaning this time.



Same company I was looking at. This was the one we were thinking of getting, yes on a ponywall as well.
https://www.farmtek.com/farm/suppli...t_ponywall_buildings;e176d41f_PB00800R4W.html
We were going to mount it on 8" round green treated timber posts that are 4ft in the ground....I don't think it will move. Debating on a slab floor or crushed limestone. Also would be doing the 3ft truss spacing.


----------



## babsbag

It is TALL.  We had to rent a lift to do ours.   That is similar to mine...same width but mine is only 48' long.  Trusses are 4' OC.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> It is TALL.  We had to rent a lift to do ours.   That is similar to mine...same width but mine is only 48' long.  Trusses are 4' OC.



Yeah this one is 15ft including ponywalls, shortest one I could find. The similar upgrade with welded trusses would have been 21ft including ponywalls which I was not happy with.


----------



## babsbag

I bought one designed to sit on the ground and it was 15' so with the pony wall the back end is probably about 20' as my ground isn't level.  My last one was 11' but this one is a little longer and therefore taller...no idea why.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> I bought one designed to sit on the ground and it was 15' so with the pony wall the back end is probably about 20' as my ground isn't level.  My last one was 11' but this one is a little longer and therefore taller...no idea why.



Thank you very much for all the info Babs!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Also.....


----------



## misfitmorgan

So not a lot new around here...i mean aside from the new house pig.

We did also order a new furnace, it should be arriving on Jan 16th. We went with a 95% efficiency 5 ton 135k BTU multi-speed one because the deal was to good to pass up. I didnt actully want multi-speed because the boards wear out and are not cheap to fix but we should have at least 10yrs before we have to worry about it. It also has the option later on to add central air to it for under $1k so that would be nice.

Should also make for way nicer gas bills since the old one was 60%(??) efficiency, installed in 1967 and 120k btu.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Kora loves and hates the pig all at the same time, but that pig he adores kora. The little black dog is rufus, my sisters dog I have been watching while she was on vacation. He goes home tomorrow.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Should also make for way nicer gas bills since the old one was 60%(??) efficiency, installed in 1967 and 120k btu.


You will be a lot more comfortable! Why would the board on a multi speed wear out any faster than a single speed? The only difference I know is that if the thermostat is not satisfied after a certain amount of time it will kick the fan speed up.


----------



## Baymule

Yay! New heat! More efficient and that sure will help on the bill. Happy for you, improvements help make everything better.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> You will be a lot more comfortable! Why would the board on a multi speed wear out any faster than a single speed? The only difference I know is that if the thermostat is not satisfied after a certain amount of time it will kick the fan speed up.


The more wear would be the separate board the multi-speeds have to control the mutli-speed, single speeds dont have those. Singles just have the board that says on or off, the multi has another piece of tech in it to tell the furnace burners and blower motor to go fast, slow, or off....that's what I was told anyhow. Though all the new furnace types are confusing



Baymule said:


> Yay! New heat! More efficient and that sure will help on the bill. Happy for you, improvements help make everything better.


Our furnace died last April so will definitely be nice. We are very excited to have a new one on it's way.


----------



## Bruce

If it is a circuit board there are no moving parts. No reason I can think of that it should "wear out" just because it tells the fan to speed up. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Must be kinda cold waiting for the new furnace!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> If it is a circuit board there are no moving parts. No reason I can think of that it should "wear out" just because it tells the fan to speed up. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
> 
> Must be kinda cold waiting for the new furnace!



Just going by what I read and what our friend who is an HVAC guy said 

Yes it gets cold. We have a used 80k btu trailer house furnace plumbed into the basement atm to keep pipes from freezing. I found it on FB for $20 so it was worth it. Only problem is we can't plumb it into any of our duct work because it is a down vent instead of an up and no way to change it with out a plenum and even then it is very old so DH says it wouldnt have enough force to really do much good for the cost. We also have a propane wall heater and a natural gas wall heater. In our bedroom we have one of those fancy type electric heaters the low juice sucking type. If all of that isnt enough we turn on the oven, but with the mild temps it hasnt been to bad yet.


----------



## Bruce

But the new furnace is coming soon and all that will be a distant memory!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> But the new furnace is coming soon and all that will be a distant memory!



Precisely!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

misfitmorgan said:


> Also.....
> View attachment 68454


Oh my gosh!  Is that A Juliana Mini Pig?  I had one over the holidays.  I wanted to raise them...but I didn’t want her as a house pet.  Everything I read on them...all the websites must’ve been from southern states...they were in or outside animals.  Ours was named Piper.  5 mths old.  Liter trained...fast as anything!  But, it’s super cold here.  My hubby built her an insulated box in the barn, with heat lamp, but it didn’t get above 55*....I didn’t want her in there.  I found her a wonderful family who had been looking for a mini because the babysittEr has one!  She is there now and they send me pictures all the time!  I miss her, but. Know she is better off with children.  Congratulations on your new baby! She/he is adorable!!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Kind of....

That is the great great grandson of our mini boar Mr. Pig. Mr. Pig was a pure juliana mini pig, the girl pig we had was 3/4 juliana 1/4 potbelly because it was the only unrelated female we could find in the area. They had a litter and our friend wanted a couple so we gave him a few, he got a pot cross mini female from another person and started breeding them sort of on accident. A few litters later and another boar off our mini's.  His pigs produced a mini boar that was only 20lbs. We took that mini boar over to our other friends house because he had a 3/4 mini 1/4 pot female who was unrelated that was about 30lbs at around a year old who he wanted to breed. So they got together and had a litter...and that is where our new house piglet came from.

So yes he is some portion of mini but what exactly we dunno. I know 5 yrs ago what we started with and what our piglets mom was...the boar is the mystery percentage. Closest guess I have atm is 80% mini 20% pot. Our piglet is 7 weeks old atm.

Yes he lives in the house and is liter trained and trained to go outside to potty. You can keep mini pigs outside this is the first house pig we have ever had all our other pigs were in the barn. Once they reach adult age they do fine but should have a buddy to share body heat.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

misfitmorgan said:


> Kind of....
> 
> That is the great great grandson of our mini boar Mr. Pig. Mr. Pig was a pure juliana mini pig, the girl pig we had was 3/4 juliana 1/4 potbelly because it was the only unrelated female we could find in the area. They had a litter and our friend wanted a couple so we gave him a few, he got a pot cross mini female from another person and started breeding them sort of on accident. A few litters later and another boar off our mini's.  His pigs produced a mini boar that was only 20lbs. We took that mini boar over to our other friends house because he had a 3/4 mini 1/4 pot female who was unrelated that was about 30lbs at around a year old who he wanted to breed. So they got together and had a litter...and that is where our new house piglet came from.
> 
> So yes he is some portion of mini but what exactly we dunno. I know 5 yrs ago what we started with and what our piglets mom was...the boar is the mystery percentage. Closest guess I have atm is 80% mini 20% pot. Our piglet is 7 weeks old atm.
> 
> Yes he lives in the house and is liter trained and trained to go outside to potty. You can keep mini pigs outside this is the first house pig we have ever had all our other pigs were in the barn. Once they reach adult age they do fine but should have a buddy to share body heat.


Wait.....I was planning to breed, so we bought her...and then when we got her they said no..she need to be inside.  We still took her of course!  I did a lot of research and it said they need to be in temps between 50* and 80*.  The box Chris made was plywood, double insulated then plywood.  4x 8..with heat lamp and never got above 55*.  We put her with our Hampshire a bit because we could tell he loved her..and he did!  He bawled when he took her out.  But, I didn’t want her in the box, and. Didn’t want her getting cold.  No one around here has them...so, I didn’t know.  I can’t believe, now, I read that they CAN be in the cold??  My pot belly pig got a whiff of her and tried to go after her.  Portly is never in that barn, but she must’ve smelled her.  Luckily I got Piper in time!  She was so fragile seeming!  Her hooves were no bigger than quarters!    I think I’m going to get two pots in the spring so I won’t have to worry so much.  Are you getting another house pig?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Unless it is spring/summer/fall I wouldnt put a mini outside unless they were a year old or better and she needs a buddy to share heat. Pigs are tough after they make it to about a year old. Our big pigs dont seem to care at all about the cold, they will play in the water and steam rolls off them when it is in the teens or colder outside. 
No we dont plan on getting any other house pigs, this one is a house pig because he was socialized with people. Mr pig and his wife were outside barn pigs because they were not and wanted nothing to do with people. So I think it just depends. His hooves atm are probly the size of nickles I dont think he will be tiny tiny but 30lbs or less I'm pretty sure. His mom is only about a foot tall and his dad was maybe 10inches tall.


----------



## Baymule

The mini pigs are for sale on Craigslist all the time here. Cute, but no thanks. I limit my pigs to feeder pigs and I am happy with that! I can admire other people's mini pigs. A neighbor had 2 for yard pigs, but she didn't worm or care for them except for tossing them some dog food and they died. I tried to tell her, but she did nothing.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

misfitmorgan said:


> Unless it is spring/summer/fall I wouldnt put a mini outside unless they were a year old or better and she needs a buddy to share heat. Pigs are tough after they make it to about a year old. Our big pigs dont seem to care at all about the cold, they will play in the water and steam rolls off them when it is in the teens or colder outside.
> No we dont plan on getting any other house pigs, this one is a house pig because he was socialized with people. Mr pig and his wife were outside barn pigs because they were not and wanted nothing to do with people. So I think it just depends. His hooves atm are probly the size of nickles I dont think he will be tiny tiny but 30lbs or less I'm pretty sure. His mom is only about a foot tall and his dad was maybe 10inches tall.


Yeah, I’m glad we decided not to keep her, she was precious..but too delicate to live outside here....even with a mate...and then to have piglets!?   I’ll get more pots when the time is right..they are sturdy...kind of fat!!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yesterday the company I work for laid off 400 people. For the moment layoffs are done and I wasnt in the first batch thankfully.  Supposedly thats all for layoffs for now but we shall see.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

That's scary!  Glad you weren't one of the chosen!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

That’s terrible for your town!  That means everything will take a hard hit, all the small businesses, darn it!  I’m so glad to hear you were safe...what do you do?


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Yesterday the company I work for laid off 400 people. For the moment layoffs are done and I wasnt in the first batch thankfully.  Supposedly thats all for layoffs for now but we shall see.


 
I went through several of those starting in 1994. DW got tagged in 2006 and finally I was in the big group of 2013 when IBM was "rightsizing" so Global Foundaries would take $2B to "buy" IBM's chip manufacturing plants.


----------



## misfitmorgan

frustratedearthmother said:


> That's scary!  Glad you weren't one of the chosen!


Me too!



Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> That’s terrible for your town!  That means everything will take a hard hit, all the small businesses, darn it!  I’m so glad to hear you were safe...what do you do?



I work as an engineer designing repairs/modifications/etc for aircraft. It wont be to bad for the town actually, the company is around 4k people worldwide, the layoff was spread out between here(maintenance hub) and downstate(headquarters) mostly. The town here has about 3k people and we lost about 100 people locally. The others drive from other towns to here daily for work(like me).


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I went through several of those starting in 1994. DW got tagged in 2006 and finally I was in the big group of 2013 when IBM was "rightsizing" so Global Foundaries would take $2B to "buy" IBM's chip manufacturing plants.



They had a layoff here in 2008, then 2012, and now 2019 so.....
If the second quarter picks up we should be clear of any other layoffs, if not......round 2.


----------



## Baymule

I hope you get to keep your job. Layoffs suck.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> If the second quarter picks up we should be clear of any other layoffs, if not......round 2.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I hope so too.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @misfitmorgan,

Haven't heard from you in a while so I thought I would see how things are with you.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## misfitmorgan

Things are going pretty alright here. We are still on lockdown of course but DH and I both still are working since we are essential services. Our schedules have changed, DH works 4, 10s now and has fri-sun off. I now work every other day from home mon-fri on a rotating schedule.  Next week DH is on 5 10s though.

We have been busy we got a new Buck named Mr. Goat he is a moonspotted Boer. We have 3 beautiful goat kids from our girls who are all also girls. 

We have 5 lambs from our sheep 4 boys 1 girl, the girl is a bottle baby. Sweetie had the girl lamb and rejected her because she was not fit enough to take care of the lamb. We lost Sweetie a week ago, we believe it was due to age as she would not gain weight despite large amounts of grain and quality hay, we even tried alfalfa, dyne, wormer, and other supplements. As near as we can figure we had her for around 4-5yrs and she was a full grown adult of unknown age when we got her.

We were also told the mutts are pretty old, our friend had them for 3-4yrs and they were 3-4yrs old when he got them.  So we will be exspecting some losses from them in the coming year or two.

We bought a new ewe, she is huge like ridiculously huge. She stands up on our page wire fence and weighs so much it bows from 4ft to 2ft tall. Even standing flat her head is chest height on my 5'2" self. Really looking forward to babies from her and our big ram. The ewe is from Slack. Our 294 ewe is from slack/kimm ram but here is no comparing the two ewes.

Stubby and Sarah had piglets yesterday, it poured all day yesterday and so far all day today. So thats not really good.

We ordered poultry this year. 15 Bronze Broad Breasted Turkeys, 10 Midet White turkeys, 6 Blue Swedish ducks, 20 Cornish X, 16 Bresse, and 5 rouen ducks for our friends son.

The BBBT arrived at the post office today, so I need to pick them up. The Midget white, swedish and rouen ducks arrive tomorrow. Then the cornish X hatch date is 05/11 and the Bresse are 06/01. I wish we could have gotten the Bresse sooner but they supposedly lay at 4-4.5months old so hopefully that makes up for them coming later.

We already have 4 brooders set up minus lights being on, I have the feed for the turkeys and the ducks as well as electrolytes for the water and some gro-gel.

Tomorrow we are renting a mini excavator to clear fence lines and do some other minor work around the farm. Mostly its for fence lines and anything else is extra as we only have it for 24hrs and its almost $400 for that length of time.

We did get the line down to the 2-story plumbed in last week, so we now have water down at the 2-story which will be great for the garden and livestock. It also saves us about 150ft of hose.

We got another roll of fence for the garden since Ivy and her kids keep going in there to eat the tops off my fall garlic.

Can't really think of anything else new.


----------



## farmerjan

Glad to see your post and know that things are still going along okay.  This shutdown/lockdown has been trying for all.  So very glad for you that you still have work as that was a worry back awhile ago. 

Things on the farm go along regardless of what happens elsewhere.  

Hope you get lots done with the excavator.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thanks much Jan. Our plans are used for cargo so we are actually super busy from all of this. 

I hope we get a lot done too. This year is hopefully about expanding and setting things up more the way we want them. Getting our flock managements under control, etc.

Hope you and your family are doing well thru all of this.


----------



## promiseacres

I know Slack sheep, they live in the school district that I went to high school in. We bought several of our 4H lambs from them and knew their daughter Kelli from showing rabbits.  
Sounds like you're doing ok and keeping busy, I think that's the key for surviving this thing.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The people we bought the ewe from drove down to an auction in indiana to get 2 ewes for her 4h projects 2yrs ago. She took 1st place in a few fairs with those ewes but is/was going to college so thinning her herd. We normally shear for them every year.


----------



## Bruce

Super glad to hear from you Misfit  Seems things are going fairly well and I'm happy for that.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad to see ya post!!....I've been away for a while myself and just now trying to catch up with everyone again.....really happy things have turned the corner for y'all and are moving forward....would love to see that moonspot boer....<hint-hint>.....😃


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @misfitmorgan,

Good to hear from you again!  Glad to know you and yours are doing well.  Please keep everyone posted!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thanks everyone
Mr goat's Sire




Mr Goat's Dam




Mr goat at birth/shortly after





No good adult pics of him atm.

Our ducks, midget white turkeys and broadbreasted bronze all arrived yesterday. Unfortuneately the midgets came in their own box and got to cold so we lost 5 of them and a 6th isnt looking good....out of 10. So i have talked to the hatchery and got a refund on the lost ones and put in a new order for 10 more with added "males for warmth" which will ship out on the 13th.
Rouen and Swedish Blue Ducks (Blues arnt always blue, mine are 5 black and 1 blue, but they all have the blue gene)




The turkeys (i did end up moving the midgets to another brooder)




I also stopped yesterday and got all the seeds for our garden and the raised herb garden. I would have prefered plants for things like the tomatoes, cucmbers and herbs since we have a shorter growing season but with things going on no place has plants that i know of. I am still on the hunt for onion sets, and strawberry plants but if it doesnt happen thats ok too.

DH has been out on the mini excavator since about 10am and he is almost to the edge of our property on one lane.

We were also making plans to build a pretty large chicken coop, I figured out the main coop part would cost us about $1,200 to build being 10x12, then today DH shows me this...



I am waiting to hear back from the guy. But it would be perfect, much cheaper($250), and bigger(12x12). We would need to take it apart partly to move it as road width limits without a permit here are 8.5ft and to get it moved professionally would be about $550.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> then today DH shows me this.


It is almost a Wood's coop


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> It is almost a Wood's coop


We didn't get the shed. What's a woods coop?


----------



## farmerjan

As you all know, I am not a goat person, but that is a very nice looking sire and dam so I hope the young one is as good.  I do love the moon spots though.  They are chunky with alot of meat.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Here is one side of the lane DH made yesterday.


It goes to about 20ft from our southern property line


----------



## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> As you all know, I am not a goat person, but that is a very nice looking sire and dam so I hope the young one is as good.  I do love the moon spots though.  They are chunky with alot of meat.


Thank you. We are after meat and I love the moonspots. Both mom and dad had the gene for moonspots so hoping for some spotty kids.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> We didn't get the shed. What's a woods coop?


Jack E's Wood's coop on BYC

Dr. Woods original book on building an open air poultry house


----------



## misfitmorgan

I will h


Bruce said:


> Jack E's Wood's coop on BYC
> 
> Dr. Woods original book on building an open air poultry house


I will have to look into that, thank you.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Ok I think we have made the choice to just buy a shed we want the correct size for the main coop. We looked at two shed/mini barn places and the prices are really pretty reasonable and we wouldnt have the stress of having to build the main part in the next 3-5 weeks. We would simply need to add in wiring for lights and plugs and could use it. The difference of us building it vs buying a shed/barn is only about $500 and these are legitimately amish built sheds/barns so the quality is there for what they are.

Only real downside is currently the one company has a 5 weeks wait until delivery(3 weeks wait on built and 2 weeks wait on delivery) We could possibly get around that by getting a lot model but that means we can't change anything.


----------



## Baymule

Never enough time, hurry up and wait. Be sure and show us pictures when you get it!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Never enough time, hurry up and wait. Be sure and show us pictures when you get it!


I will, we are looking at lot models atm. We are either going to get a 10x12 "garden shed" or a 12x20 "garden shed" like the ones below. If we do a 10x12 if only has one window.




If we do the 10x12 that would be the main main coop, if we do 12x20 that would be the main coop, the turkey coop and a little room for feed. We are hoping they have a lot model without windows, shutters or flower boxes because we would rather add "livestock style" barn windows with hardware cloth vs the screens in the standard windows and its a few hundred dollars cheaper. I will let you guys know what we decide and share pics when it gets here.

The other thing to think about is where to put it as it needs a limestone pad and access from the road. Where we want it ideally would mean it has to go thru the orchard which probly isnt possible because of tree limbs.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> We are hoping they have a lot model without windows, shutters or flower boxes


That would be great since you would have to make those changes anyway.


----------



## Baymule

Is there one of those companies that will build on site in your area? That would take care of not damaging the tree branches.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The place I am using does offer it but it is about $1200 more and cant be  built until construction restrictions are lifted here.

I think we are going to use the old driveway they used to log the place off. The single blue line is the old driveway for logging(brush has grown further into the property then it shows here as this picture is from 2016) The red rectangles are proposed locations for the shed. The multi colored double lines are approximately the new lanes for fence lines DH put in.



So using the old logging road would take some clearing work but not horrible thanks to DHs work pushing back the brush last year.


----------



## Bruce

Do you have a tractor with a brush mower to clear the logging road?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Do you have a tractor with a brush mower to clear the logging road?


 Nope


----------



## misfitmorgan

DH went to the auction a week and a half ago and bought us two bottle calves. They are doing good.


----------



## Bruce

Were you distant from the failed dams and floods?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Were you distant from the failed dams and floods?


About an hour south of my house and 30 mins south of my work so no not really.


----------



## Bruce

I'm glad. I "know" (virtually) several families in Michigan but not exactly where they live. Thus I got concerned when I heard about the floods - 9' of water in a downtown!!


----------



## Baymule

What breed of calves? Congrats on the purchase of the calves.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I'm glad. I "know" (virtually) several families in Michigan but not exactly where they live. Thus I got concerned when I heard about the floods - 9' of water in a downtown!!



Yeah the flooding was pretty insane.



Baymule said:


> What breed of calves? Congrats on the purchase of the calves.


Just Holstein calves from the livestock auction. They are doing well so far still and don't appear to be having any health issues. They are I believe 3 weeks old now.

Only trouble we are having is the one we call big spot cant figure out how to eat the calf starter. So I have to put my hand up and pour it into his mouth. The one called little spot is on the starter, so hopefully big spot will learn.

Everything seems seems good. The poultry are all getting big. The meatheads, broad breasted turkeys, and ducks are ready to go to tractors.


----------



## Baymule

How are your pigs doing? Feeder pigs here have hit the stratosphere. No more $50-$60 piglets, prices are $100-$250 for a freaking FEEDER PIG!!  Insane. All of a sudden, everybody wants to raise their own, that's good, but I wonder how many will stick with it. Anyway, the slaughter places are now booked a YEAR in advance. I finally found a farm that raises pigs at a reasonable price, an hour and a half away and reserved piglets for March 2021. Now I have to see if I can get a booking date for August or September 2021--for pigs I don't even have yet!


----------



## farmerjan

ALWAYS better to book and then have to cancel.... Even in the "normal times" our local slaughter place would have someone to be able to pick up an open spot from a cancellation.  But it is insane for the places to be booked a year in advance.  I am going to call the chicken guy on Monday to see how things look with him.... get a few dates booked for all these broilers.  If the fox leaves any...... They are staying locked in and I am going to set a few traps to see what I catch.  But I want to see how things look for him and get a couple of "regular dates " ..... Never know how many I am going to have and if things go along, there ought to be a big call for killing size chickens at the fall poultry swap  since there wasn't a spring one.  That would be nice, could have alot to take to sell.... all according to what gets "left behind" at the 2 different farms now.  The ones at the closeby friends place will be going out around June 20th he said.... we will talk closer to then and see how they look.  He said one house had a virus and they were treating them now.... might not want them.... or there might be alot of "small ones" and they would do okay once I get them out of the houses and in the air too.  These are not near any of my purebreds, and probably never will move them to the new house near the purebreds/ and layers..... We will see....

You might see this really crash too when people find out how much work raising some of these animals are;  and the amount of money that goes into feed and all.  In a year there also might be a few more smaller local type plants to be opening or re-opening.... if some of the proposed legislation goes into effect....  But it just might get some people that have been straddling the fence to get off it and get serious about providing some of their own food..... I think that gardening will stay at an increase...... it is not as big a money investment as animals, and if it fails..... not as big a loss to those that have never relied on it for a good portion of their food.


----------



## CntryBoy777

For those that are "gettin' in to it" the cost isn't realized and the feeding, tending, and protecting is a "warm adventure".....but, it is the 1st slaughter that separates the "serious" and the "curious"....and "reality" sets in.....


----------



## farmerjan

Very true  @CntryBoy777 .... and the cost of the slaughter if it is a bigger animal like a beef.... that'll set you back if you aren't expecting it.... but the reality of it going to butcher is a big wake up call.....


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> How are your pigs doing? Feeder pigs here have hit the stratosphere. No more $50-$60 piglets, prices are $100-$250 for a freaking FEEDER PIG!!  Insane. All of a sudden, everybody wants to raise their own, that's good, but I wonder how many will stick with it. Anyway, the slaughter places are now booked a YEAR in advance. I finally found a farm that raises pigs at a reasonable price, an hour and a half away and reserved piglets for March 2021. Now I have to see if I can get a booking date for August or September 2021--for pigs I don't even have yet!



Our pigs are good. We just sold 2 piglets to a friend for $45 each from Sarah. 6 piglets left, we are trading 2 piglets to our friend holly for 30lbs of ground beef from her butcher steer she had done last week. Of the other 4 piglets 2 are being traded last I knew for grain silos to another guy we know(that or he is getting the 2 gilts we have been growing out). The last 2 are suppose to be sold at $100 each but yesterday DH said the guy was not responding to text so we shall see.

We also have a barrow almost butcher weight, he has probly 3 more weeks left.


----------



## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> ALWAYS better to book and then have to cancel.... Even in the "normal times" our local slaughter place would have someone to be able to pick up an open spot from a cancellation.  But it is insane for the places to be booked a year in advance.  I am going to call the chicken guy on Monday to see how things look with him.... get a few dates booked for all these broilers.  If the fox leaves any...... They are staying locked in and I am going to set a few traps to see what I catch.  But I want to see how things look for him and get a couple of "regular dates " ..... Never know how many I am going to have and if things go along, there ought to be a big call for killing size chickens at the fall poultry swap  since there wasn't a spring one.  That would be nice, could have alot to take to sell.... all according to what gets "left behind" at the 2 different farms now.  The ones at the closeby friends place will be going out around June 20th he said.... we will talk closer to then and see how they look.  He said one house had a virus and they were treating them now.... might not want them.... or there might be alot of "small ones" and they would do okay once I get them out of the houses and in the air too.  These are not near any of my purebreds, and probably never will move them to the new house near the purebreds/ and layers..... We will see....
> 
> You might see this really crash too when people find out how much work raising some of these animals are;  and the amount of money that goes into feed and all.  In a year there also might be a few more smaller local type plants to be opening or re-opening.... if some of the proposed legislation goes into effect....  But it just might get some people that have been straddling the fence to get off it and get serious about providing some of their own food..... I think that gardening will stay at an increase...... it is not as big a money investment as animals, and if it fails..... not as big a loss to those that have never relied on it for a good portion of their food.



We were talking about the same thing with our friends a week or so ago. All these people buying chicks most dont realize it is around 6 months until they get eggs. I literally saw people posting on FB about their new chicks and looking forward to eggs in 8 weeks or so. I didnt even bother to reply. Another lady got poults and was asking if they would be ready for butcher for july 4th when her family was coming to visit. It's pretty disgusting all these people buying poultry and animals without a single scrap of basic research. So I figure in a couple months there will be a huge number of people selling all these animals, if they survive.



CntryBoy777 said:


> For those that are "gettin' in to it" the cost isn't realized and the feeding, tending, and protecting is a "warm adventure".....but, it is the 1st slaughter that separates the "serious" and the "curious"....and "reality" sets in.....



I agree. We have had calls from many people wanting us to come butcher for them because they "just cant do it" But dont want to pay for to be done at a butcher. We have not accepted any yet.


----------



## misfitmorgan

In other GOOD news my brother and his fiance moved back from Seattle, they arrived wednesday afternoon. They want to do homesteading type stuff but they are worried about the butchering, if they could do it or not. So I told them they are in luck because we are butchering everything this year and they can come help starting with our meat chickens which should be in 2-3 weeks depending on size. Then a few weeks after that will be ducks, then we have lamb and pig, then way off in the distance around november we have turkeys.


----------



## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> In other GOOD news my brother and his fiance moved back from Seattle, they arrived wednesday afternoon. They want to do homesteading type stuff but they are worried about the butchering, if they could do it or not. So I told them they are in luck because we are butchering everything this year and they can come help starting with our meat chickens which should be in 2-3 weeks depending on size. Then a few weeks after that will be ducks, then we have lamb and pig, then way off in the distance around november we have turkeys.



That ought to help them decide if they want to be farmers or not!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That ought to help them decide if they want to be farmers or not!


Thats the idea!


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> They want to do homesteading type stuff but they are worried about the butchering, if they could do it or not. So I told them they are in luck because we are butchering everything this year and they can come help starting with our meat chickens which should be in 2-3 weeks depending on size.


Excellent! Yep they will have a chance to learn the process from someone with experience rather than just YouTube videos (which aren't necessarily bad). If they can deal with butchering YOUR animals then they would have to decide if they could handle the job with animals they raised themselves.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Excellent! Yep they will have a chance to learn the process from someone with experience rather than just YouTube videos (which aren't necessarily bad). If they can deal with butchering YOUR animals then they would have to decide if they could handle the job with animals they raised themselves.



I'm hopeful. The only thing my brother has done before is help butcher a deer...once. So pretty big learning curve. Poultry should be a pretty easy first thing.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Everyone seems to be doing well.

All the piglets were sold and left last week, we ended up selling the last 4 for $100 each. Pigs are doing fine.  Sarah and Stubby are geting low protein feed to dry them off. DH is going to breed them to our friend Poland China Boar so he can some terminal piglets and retain a gilt so we have a bit of fresh blood for a Sara replacement.

The calves are doing good, Big spot we thought was not growing then we realized he was growing length not width, little spot is growing width. So we are guessing we will have one long lean and one short chunky. We have given them resorb twice, little spot got an infected bellybutton so it got iodine and 5 days of Pen G, he is all good now. Both are eating calf starter like champs now and getting thru 3 lbs a day, and nibbling hay a tiny bit as well as 4quarts of milk replacer twice a day. Calves are a little over a month old now.

The sheep are good, but need sheared, wormed, and hoof trims. Hopefully this weekend we will get some done. DH hurt his shoulder somehow 2 weeks ago so it may be me on a crash course and some really ugly shearing. I've a mind to figure out how to set up the headgate in the pasture and make them stand for shearing, only real thing stopping me is I would probly get the tar kicked out of me.  

Also I did tell you guys about our new giant ewe, right? Like really giant....Her head is chest high on my 5'4' self. No clue how I am gonna shear her DH could barely do it the last 2 years we sheared her.

The goats seem fine, we did lose Phoebe a few days before getting the calves, I dont think I told you guys. She got into a 55 gallon barrel of pig food locked in the barn and bloated. The pigs helped, our boar broke his gate, knocked over the barrel and had his fill. Then he was bored so he lifted the garage door on the bar and the wooden fence thats goes outside the door and let himself out. Phoebe let herself in, the other goats did as well but it must have been not long before I found them. The goats have been free ranging on the property for pretty much 2 months now. Since the tag alder forest leafed out they have been steadily clearing out all the underbrush and as far up the bushes/trees as they can.

Our Meat turkeys are doing good...finally. They have been a struggle but we have 9 left, had 10 until I moved them last night and somehow one of the hens broke her wing  so she was put down.

The heritage turkeys I only ended up with 6 that survived the shipping. That's 6 out of 25 poults...that was depressing. 

The meat heads are at the odd stage where they can be perfectly fine and then you know drop dead or just stop eating. Not doing bad though out of 26 we have only lost 3.

The ducks are good but messy as every and stuff mostly fluff. They seem to take forever to get feathers.

DH also bought 4 adult jumbo pekins and what looks like an appleyard drake. So we have 8 adult ducks, also 3 of the hens are sitting on nests. Hoping to get some ducks in the freezer this year so sitting is great!

DH also bought 30 quail, a mix of bobwhite and coturnix, he has 30 quail eggs in the incubator as well as a few duck.

The garden is doing well, this week is the first weeding for it. Everything came up well except the spring onions and zucchini....oddly. The tomato plants for the first time I can recall got transplant shock but are recovering fine and my peppers have gone yellow though I dont know a cause.

I think thats all i have to report.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Got out brooder Room cleaned out yesterday even though I still have midget white and ducklings in there. Hopefully they will both be moving out this weekend.

I got an email letting me know my Bresse chicks will ship Monday, they were delayed by 3 weeks due to USPS issues on orders before mine.

I'm also ordering 50 more meat birds....trying to decide now if we want to go with more jumbo broilers or try the slightly slower meat bird type. There are many many to choose from these days.

I ordered a drill plucker and heat shrink bags for processing the batch we have. I was going to get a drum plucker but it's $400 and I will see if the drill plucker is worth anything first, it was $24. If we were selling meat birds I would invest in the big plucker but I can justify it for 50-75 meatbirds a year, a few turkey and ducks.

I'm suppose to go today or tomorrow and pick up 5 goslings, they appear to be almost completely feathered out and the people only want $8/each which is way cheaper then i can order them. 

The batch of quail eggs DH had in...hatched 1. So we have 1 quail baby in a tiny brooder. The eggs he set were from the guy he got the quail from and the guy wasnt caring for them correctly so I dont think the eggs fresh enough. DH set the eggs they have laid since they got here. They went from 1 egg a day to being up to 5 eggs a day after 20 days. They are on proper wild game bird feed, in a proper sized cage and even have a dust bath they love. After we get the poultry squared away, DH wants to build them an outdoor place to live with a flight cage for the bobwhites.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I did go pick up the goslings on Saturday and got them all set up in a pen until they decide this is home. They are big and fully feathered as i thought but only about half the size of our adult goose. 

DH has the Poland China boar we are borrowing, in with Sara and Stubby as of last night.

My Bresse chicks are shipping today.

The sheep will be going to our friends to go out on pasture, we want to put them on our place however the goats have eaten almost everything the sheep would be able to reach already and we dont want them on hay all summer. They should be going this week and will be sheared at his place.

DH has hay equipment delivered to our hay field, and a baler at our friends to do a little maintenance work on. As soon as we get a window of no rain we will be out cutting, raking and baling. 100% small squares this year, so yep i'll probly die.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I think this guy must have gotten in over his head or something.









						Butcher ready pigs for sale - farm & garden - by owner - sale
					

Heritage breed butcher pigs for sale. Mangalitsa X We have 40 available All pigs are between...



					nmi.craigslist.org
				




I can't imagine selling 40 Mangalista pigs for $1.50/lb HANGING. We dont even raise heritage and we sell at $2/lb estimated live weight.


----------



## Baymule

Y’all have a LOT of poultry! I’m down to 7 EE hens and getting 30 Cornish Cross chicks August 12. We sell the meat and I have orders for. 14 at $6 a pound. My hay guy is getting 6 chicks to raise and well help him slaughter and package them for the freezer.

What breed is your giant ewe? Wool breeds can be a lot bigger than hair breeds. Sounds like you got good prices for your piglets. Feeder pigs around here have shot up to $100-$250 for a FEEDER pig!!

I’m sorry you lost Phoebe. It sucks. Big hugs.

Square bales around here are 60 pounds on the small side and 80-ish pounds on the regular side. That can make you tired in a hurry! Pick them up, stack on trailer, take to barn, pick them up, carry to hay storage area, stack them up. Stack in "hay steps" so you can lug them to the top of the pile. Yep, you're gonna die. Where should we send flowers?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Y’all have a LOT of poultry! I’m down to 7 EE hens and getting 30 Cornish Cross chicks August 12. We sell the meat and I have orders for. 14 at $6 a pound. My hay guy is getting 6 chicks to raise and well help him slaughter and package them for the freezer.
> 
> What breed is your giant ewe? Wool breeds can be a lot bigger than hair breeds. Sounds like you got good prices for your piglets. Feeder pigs around here have shot up to $100-$250 for a FEEDER pig!!
> 
> I’m sorry you lost Phoebe. It sucks. Big hugs.
> 
> Square bales around here are 60 pounds on the small side and 80-ish pounds on the regular side. That can make you tired in a hurry! Pick them up, stack on trailer, take to barn, pick them up, carry to hay storage area, stack them up. Stack in "hay steps" so you can lug them to the top of the pile. Yep, you're gonna die. Where should we send flowers?



I prefer to think of it as not a lot of poultry....just all the food groups covered  

We will end up with hopefully a trio or quad of midget whites..I already know I have at least two toms cause they show off to me when i feed and water them.
We are saving back the Broad breasted hens...as DH wants to get heritage bronze next year to breed to them. But all the males will be butchered by turkey day at the latest.....any extra midget toms will be going too.
The meatheads will all be processed. All males but 2 pekin drakes and 1 swedish blue drake will be processed. The adult quail will be all processed as soon as the replacements are hatched, incubator is full. Anything over 2 Bresse Roosters will be processed.

So we should be down to smaller numbers by winter.

The new giant ewe is suffolk. I noticed the hair breeds were smaller when mike was giving butcher weights and ages awhile back. We need to get an actualy scale because i really wanna know how much this giant ewe weighs and our lambs weights at 6 months to verify we are doing things correctly. I know what a 150lb suffolk lamb looks like but confirmation would be nice. We could also run our pigs across it when we sell them. That big ewe is easily at least 250lbs.

Feeder pigs are high up here to, we have heard people paying $250 here for feeders now because every person who has never raised a pig bought all the pigs out. We didnt feel comfortable sellers feeders over $100.

Now for hay....DH says if the bale isnt over 75lbs it wasnt made right. I keep telling him keep in mind i'm only 5'4" with t-rex arms and have limited leverage. The squares he made year before last 1/3 of them were 100lbs or more. I asked him to make lighter bales this year for me like 50lbs, he said its not worth making so no. I told him he better hire help then. We do have two hay elevators, thankfully so not so bad.


----------



## misfitmorgan

On a side note i've been trying to get DH to buy a new truck...so far he is not going for anything new. I opened up a search page on kbb to look and he saw the 2020s in the sponsored section at the top and said wtf are you smoking(before i scrolled) they were $75-80k. I told him that was not what i ment when i said new. I told him no I just thought something within the last two decades would be good. He loves the F250 diesel and its really all he will look at but it must be the 7.3L. It's very limiting because it was only produced from 99-mid 2003. So I'm trying to get him to look anything without the 6.0L diesel. Maybe even a not diesel


----------



## Mike CHS

New truck prices give a whole new meaning to "sticker shock".  

Katahdin ewe weight range is 120-160 pounds.  Most of ours are in the 140-160 range with one that pushes 200 while carrying lambs and she has a normal weight on grass only at 180+ pounds.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> New truck prices give a whole new meaning to "sticker shock".
> 
> Katahdin ewe weight range is 120-160 pounds.  Most of ours are in the 140-160 range with one that pushes 200 while carrying lambs and she has a normal weight on grass only at 180+ pounds.



Very much so! I remember not to long ago when people were talking about the new trucks being 38-40k and people were seeming outraged....now 70-80k is common and ford has a 100k truck. I think these people really are insane....my house was 64k lmao I mean come on people. People where I work buy these trucks keep them a year and then go trade it in for the newest model(people above my pay grade) most here lease though. I never could lease I always felt like it was throwing away money like renting a place to live.

Our credit union has a new program called Flex-ride so i may look into that. You only pay on the part of the vehicle you are going to use. You've probly heard of it. They also finance tractors.........

I know hair sheep are not little per say just a smaller sheep breed. I love the suffolks but as we are starting to have worse and worse complications from our auto-immune issues we are seriously considering switching over to hair sheep. Now that the price is coming down to a reasonable amount. We are limited on how many wool sheep we can have based on how many DH can reasonably shear in a weekend without abusing himself.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> The squares he made year before last 1/3 of them were 100lbs or more. I asked him to make lighter bales this year for me like 50lbs, he said its not worth making so no. I told him he better hire help then. We do have two hay elevators, thankfully so not so bad.


Um ... if you are making them for yourselves aren't two 50# bales the same as a 100# bale with the exception that the former is something a person might actually be able to pick up and stack? 



Mike CHS said:


> New truck prices give a whole new meaning to "sticker shock".


And having just purchased one, Mike knows!



misfitmorgan said:


> You only pay on the part of the vehicle you are going to use.


So ... if you only use the trunk/cargo area 10% of the time the vehicle is being driven you pay less? And while my car seats 4, 3 of those seats are empty most of the time so I can pay less for that as well? And since it is a plug-in hybrid and the gas engine isn't running unless I go south to the populated area (can only make it half of the round trip on electric) I can pay less for the ICE?

Yep, I don't understand the concept.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Um ... if you are making them for yourselves aren't two 50# bales the same as a 100# bale with the exception that the former is something a person might actually be able to pick up and stack?
> 
> 
> And having just purchased one, Mike knows!
> 
> 
> So ... if you only use the trunk/cargo area 10% of the time the vehicle is being driven you pay less? And while my car seats 4, 3 of those seats are empty most of the time so I can pay less for that as well? And since it is a plug-in hybrid and the gas engine isn't running unless I go south to the populated area (can only make it half of the round trip on electric) I can pay less for the ICE?
> 
> Yep, I don't understand the concept.



Yes they are the same weight but extra twine and an extra bale to stack and move. Doesn't sound like to much really but then times it by the 1,500 or 3,00 bales we will have that is a lot of extra twine and stacking. DH is 6' 4" and has no problem lifting, moving, carrying, stacking bales at up to 100lbs. He prefers them at about 80lbs but adjustments and rebales sometimes change things.

Mike's thread is what reminded me to go look at trucks online again this week  

No no Bruce. Say you get a I dunno 4yr loan, they take the average miles you will drive and the value of the vehicle at the end of that 4yrs and take that off your loan. For example you want a 30K car, they figure out the value at the end of the 4yrs is 17K so they make the loan out like your buying the car for 13K and base your payments on it. So your payments would be around $460 instead of $860. At the end of your loan you have 4 options. You can walk away and your free and clear, you can decide to pay off the 13K and keep the car, you can finance the 13k and keep the car, or you can use the car as a trade in and pay off any difference in trade in value vs the 13k left.

I assume we would want to do the trade-in option but i would need to take a long hard look at the flex loan option before I agreed to it. I am sure there are trade-offs vs a conventional loan.


----------



## Bruce

We keep our vehicles until the are about dead (or in the case of my last 2 cars killed by a negligent person running into them). Seems like the "keep for 4 years then walk" is paying the depreciation and getting nothing in return. Of course if you really don't like the vehicle or it had been unreliable I guess it works out. If after 4 years you drive fewer or more than the "average" they calculate when the loan is made do they modify what you owe or give some back?


----------



## Mike CHS

Same here.  Up until now, I have had two pickups since 1995 and both were Tacomas.


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## misfitmorgan

I believe there is a pretty big margin built in. I don't think they would give you some back per say but if you were trading in or selling you would get it back that way. I don't believe it is much different then leasing only with a longer term and the ability to keep it if you want. I have not see anything saying you are held to a certain mileage either as with leases. If the value was significantly less then it should be due to poor care or a ton of extra miles I assume you would need to pay the difference but in most situations I don't think it would be a big deal.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> Same here.  Up until now, I have had two pickups since 1995 and both were Tacomas.



My last two were kept until dead however i did notice as my vehicles aged the up keep got a lot more expensive. Like i ended up having 20+k into a 2008 trailblazer, not smart. So i think it depends a lot on the vehicle and how new it is when you buy it. The 2008 trailblazer i got in 2015 it was already 8 yrs old and driven hard. My chevy cruze i have now is 2014 and it was taken much better care of, even so i have already replaced both wheel bearings, and rotors on the front. We will also have to replace the catalytic converter before winter. Luckily DH does the work for our vehicles so no high labor bills. I will either be getting a brand new car for my next vehicle or a newer suv most likely so the flex program is appealing. I only keep vehicles so far 4-5yrs, but that may be a product of buying older ones.


----------



## Mike CHS

Up until this year, I have bought low mile 1-2 year old trucks and had good luck.  My first Tacoma only had 40K miles on it when my ex BIL helped me kill it.  We had a hurricane come through and since he wasn't prepared he came over and borrowed a can of gas.  A week or so later he brought my can back full of gas which I put into my truck.  The next time I drove it I was just about to work and it started dying on me.  I was only about a block from a decent garage so I walked over and asked them to tow it in and see what was going on.  He called a little later and asked me how my truck got water in the gas tank.  I had no idea how water got in but I had a pretty good guess.   I later asked my BIL where he got the gas (thinking he might have bought it at a station that had storm damage) but he told me he siphoned it out of one of his cars which had been under water.  

The Tacoma I have now has had all of the routine maintenance but only had to have an AC compressor replaced recently but it has 280K miles on it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mike CHS said:


> Up until this year, I have bought low mile 1-2 year old trucks and had good luck.  My first Tacoma only had 40K miles on it when my ex BIL helped me kill it.  We had a hurricane come through and since he wasn't prepared he came over and borrowed a can of gas.  A week or so later he brought my can back full of gas which I put into my truck.  The next time I drove it I was just about to work and it started dying on me.  I was only about a block from a decent garage so I walked over and asked them to tow it in and see what was going on.  He called a little later and asked me how my truck got water in the gas tank.  I had no idea how water got in but I had a pretty good guess.   I later asked my BIL where he got the gas (thinking he might have bought it at a station that had storm damage) but he told me he siphoned it out of one of his cars which had been under water.
> 
> The Tacoma I have now has had all of the routine maintenance but only had to have an AC compressor replaced recently but it has 280K miles on it.



Well that was surely nice of your BIL.

The trailblazer had 121k on it when we bought it, when we got rid of it it had almost 300k. It's biggest three problems were electrical issues from the design, suspension gone, and it had gotten in some kind of accident which wasnt on the carfax report and took us about 1.5yrs to figure out what as wrong with it. The accident had bent the frame so it went thru wheel bearing, tie rod ends, and tires at a ridiculous rate. In 5 years it got 7 wheel bearing, 4 tie rod ends, a new alternator, a new battery, 7 sets of tires, and would never stay in alignment because the suspension was shot. Also the front end replaced twice from hitting deer and a new rear axle/differential but those were more our fault then the cars.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I only keep vehicles so far 4-5yrs, but that may be a product of buying older ones.


More than likely. When you give up a vehicle it is already 12 or more years old. DW's Prius (bought new) is 14 years old and nearing 250K miles.


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## misfitmorgan

So.....we may have been in tractor supply the other day and bought one or 2 more chicks..........or 30....

I happen to be walking thru to the feed section, which is on the way past the cage of temptation of course. I noticed they had mystic marans pullets which i had been looking into because i have always wanted marans for those chocolately eggs. The mystic's supposedly are a cross of black marans and barred rock that lay dark brown eggs but lay about 80 more eggs/yr and eat less then other marans. So we got 10 of those. 
They are sex-linked and i would like to try to make them auto-sexing so i may get some cuckoo and see about crossing them up.

We also got white silkie pullets, i love silkies and 10 amerucanas pullets.

BTW if anyone is looking for a HARDY chicken breed, i would recommend trying pyncheon. We have 1 and have only ever had one. She is the longest surviving chicken on our farm. She has free ranged since we got her as an adult, laid eggs, sat on nests every single year, and hatched the chicks. We give her zero food and only see her once in awhile but she is sitting on a nest again this year(we have no rooster this year so pointless but she is dedicated). This chicken is at least 5yrs old and spends her winter in the rafters of the barn....still laying eggs almost all winter. Pyncheon is a bantam breed but wow they are little survivors and pretty too. Ours is the white base with brown and black spots.


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## misfitmorgan

We got the geese moved to the garden, the goats keep jumping the fence to eat the garden so at this point the geese can't possibly hurt it more. So we are testing out the weeding thing.

Hopefully today the broad breasted bronze are getting a wing trim and moved into electric net, so they will have 150sqft of pasture, then as they grow more we will add another 150sqft of pasture. If my midgets every put on weight they will go out into pasture to, atm they could easily fly out even with a wing clip.

The pekins are all full grown now, the swedish blue ducks are mostly grown.


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## misfitmorgan

Ok so slight hiccup......The goat kids keep getting stuck in the electric net fence and ripping it down. We are going to have to re-work the fence and attach it to some t-posts. We wanted to build a poultry pasture out of 2x4 wire but tsc has been sold out for a month now. Same for all chicken feeders and waterers, calf bottles, etc etc.

So today i am going online and ordering stuff into to the store for pick up.


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## Bruce

Are they pulling down the step in posts that are part of the net when they get stuck?


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## Mike CHS

We lost a lamb this spring that got caught in the netting.  We later found that the netting wasn't hot due to a connection got switched.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Are they pulling down the step in posts that are part of the net when they get stuck?


Basically yes....but that was before the net was actually electrified. The young ones dont go near it now and the only current issue now is Ivy is jumping the net. We have T-posts on it so we are going to have to go buy a few more and run some electric wires above the net. It is a short net only 35" tall so not a challenge for her. The net however is working fantastic for our turkeys and ducks. They have 165 sqft of pasture and we can add another 165 sqft of pasture if needed. We have not yet put the midget whites into the net because they are so light and small still they will fly right out.



Mike CHS said:


> We lost a lamb this spring that got caught in the netting.  We later found that the netting wasn't hot due to a connection got switched.



Sorry to hear that. We have lost a few to fences just not the electric net yet.


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## misfitmorgan

We had 2 hold backs for butchering, one got sold last weekend and the other one went for our freezer. Here are some pictures so I can point out something.

Our friend also took in his approx 5yr old Poland China Boar to be butchered. Te first 2 hanging is the 5yrs old poland china. The second hanging is our 7 month old hereford/duroc gilt. The reason I am pointing this out is, the hams were almost the same size, the meat redder in the hereford and leaner, the poland has a fat cap where the herefords do not.





So far everyone who has raised our pigs for butcher, loves the taste of the hereford or hereford/duroc cross.

Also size comparison, this is the poland being split.



Poland hang weight - 340Lbs
Hereford/Duroc live weight - 305Lbs

We also have a buyer interested in 28 butcher ready pigs yearly, and any goat kids we wanna raise to slaughter size. The kids we will think about, and the pigs would be paid for in full as soon as the litters are 2 weeks old. They would be paid as 250lbs hanging, then when they are actually hanging the differences would be settled. It sounds like a good deal but we are not set up for it atm. The most we have raised for butcher is 4 at once.


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## Bruce

28 is quite a commitment for a small farm.


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## Mike CHS

Your stock has some awesome color.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> 28 is quite a commitment for a small farm.



I agree it would be however the rewards for income and exposure of our farm and pork would be huge. I mean we are talking minimum an extra $14,000 income a year and putting us in the bracket to be able to use/get farm grants and do some other programs we can't do otherwise.

We have been discussing it and we would need to get another gilt/sow. ATM we only have 3 sows and sara is going down the road as soon as she weans her next litter. DH wants to keep a gilt out of her and stubby, both got bred by the poland china boar. After seeing the carcass I can't say i'm sold on the idea. I would rather get another hereford or even a duroc.



Mike CHS said:


> Your stock has some awesome color.


Thank you very much. We got the everything back from the boar we had butchered. Different pig then in the picture from my last post.



I didn't want any ground pork so asked for equal breakfast sausage and Italian sausage. This picture doesnt look like much but that is almost a foot thick across almost the entire top of our freezer. About 50lbs of sausage alone.

Pork Steaks




Pork Chops








We also got roasts, ribs, and cutlets. We didnt ask for bacon or hams this time. Seems we dont eat much ham and the bacon would have been thin on this one since it was that little boar i mentioned not being a good grower. He only hung at 230.

We opted to have this one butchered off-farm because it is just to hot here to reasonably do it with our set up and doesnt look like we are going to have a cool spell anytime soon. We got everything vacuum sealed into 1LB packages and the total cost was $100.

We already have people wanting to pay for and reserve pigs to raise next year because they really like the pork...we just need to decide how much we want to do. It may involve getting rid of the mutt sheep and focusing on poultry, pork, purebred suffolk and boer goats. Basically meat critters. The mutt sheep are ok but they didnt really do well taking care of their lambs or lambing and they are about half the size of our normal size suffolk.


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## misfitmorgan

The tail end of summer passed without a ton going on here.

The calves moved outside and seem to be doing well. They are still very friendly but complain a lot.

The sheep herd came home off pasture on Sunday, everyone seems well except one of the mutt sheep is missing. No one is talking on where she went and since it is a 8 acre pasture that is half wooded we didnt notice until we were loading up. We did search the pasture didnt find anything.

Ivy's tan daughter had a boy kid about 2 weeks ago. He seems strong and healthy so far. All the goats look pretty heavily prego, so we are in for early winter babies it seems. The Boer non-seasonal breeding thing definitely seems to have kicked in which we dont mind. Also the quick growing part, the spring kids are almost as big as Ivy and stocky.

The broad breasted turkeys will be getting butchered next week. I honestly can say I will be sad to see them go. I have found out I love turkeys!! All the turkeys are soo friendly and talk to me, follow me around. I'm really glad I got the midget whites for breeders. I really love them, they will come up to me if I crouch down and lay down in front of me to be petted. I think they are by far my favorite poultry. The ducks come running for food but otherwise dont care about you. The chickens again come for food but otherwise dont really care about you. The turkeys will follow we everywhere I go and try to figure out what I am doing. They will come up wanting petted and talk to me non-stop. Really super social in a way I've not seen other poultry be.

I've ordered all the supplies to build a hoop house for our poultry shelter for the winter. We have everything now except the pipe. The over all cost not including the wood which we had already is approx $750 for a 12'x32' high tunnel/ hoop house. I'm not sure what to call it, It should end up being between 8-9' ft tall, If i could have found 8ft line posts it would have been taller. We will start building tomorrow. We are making a few modifications, the base boards will go approx 18" up on all sides to discourage any pecking at the greenhouse plastic, the sides will not get the roll up modification until spring, there will be vents at the top of the end walls, between the hip board and base boards around the entire greenhouse will be covered on the outside with cattle panels to keep goats and large predators out, the inside between the hip boards and base boards will be covered with poultry mesh again to discourage any pecking at the greenhouse plastic and keep smaller predators out. The end 4ft of high tunnel will be sectioned off for feed storage. The poultry will be closed up into the hoop house until spring except on nice days. The electric net will be taken down for winter.

Stubby had 13 piglets. 1 was born with a hind leg defect, and 1 got stepped on by Sara as they were not separated yet so both got put down. Sara ate 3 of the piglets before we could get them separated, we do not know if they were accidently stepped on or what. We got a cold snap for several days the night they were born. Long story short she ended up with at the moment 5 piglets.

Sara had 8 piglets, all healthy...she killed and ate them all. Sara has a date with the butcher.  DH is furious with Sara. We have a new gilt being raised on another farm for her replacement.

We have the two lambs who will be going to the butcher and 18 more meat birds to get to size for butcher. We will also be butchering our mule ducks.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss Misfitmorgan,

Good to see you back on the forum!  We have missed you.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## frustratedearthmother

So sorry about the piglet losses.


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## misfitmorgan

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss Misfitmorgan,
> 
> Good to see you back on the forum!  We have missed you.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie



Thank you Mr STA....I come around and lurk, just dont always have updates for the thread.



frustratedearthmother said:


> So sorry about the piglet losses.



Thank you. Breeding pigs is hard when you dont want to use crates or dont have a big pasture yet, or when the night they choose to have piglets it suddenly drops to 28F and then stays in the 30s for 4 days.


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## Baymule

I am so glad to see you on here. I have missed you! I am VERY interested in turkeys. I'm thinking on trying a few in the spring to raise for Thanksgiving/Christmas dinner, plus maybe a few for sale. The big thing for me is them not flying up to roost in trees or flying over the fence. Don't want aggressive Toms either. The Midget Whites sound like a good way to start. Do you raise them over the year, then they breed/lay the next year at a year old? Do they brood and raise their own young? I am also looking at Royal Palm, eye candy!

I'm so sorry for your pig losses. It would be hard to hold back from shooting Sara on the spot. How frustrating.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I am so glad to see you on here. I have missed you! I am VERY interested in turkeys. I'm thinking on trying a few in the spring to raise for Thanksgiving/Christmas dinner, plus maybe a few for sale. The big thing for me is them not flying up to roost in trees or flying over the fence. Don't want aggressive Toms either. The Midget Whites sound like a good way to start. Do you raise them over the year, then they breed/lay the next year at a year old? Do they brood and raise their own young? I am also looking at Royal Palm, eye candy!
> 
> I'm so sorry for your pig losses. It would be hard to hold back from shooting Sara on the spot. How frustrating.


Thank you Bay, I always miss you too!

None of our toms at at all aggressive toward humans. We have 9 broad breasted and 6 midget white, now the toms do bicker with each other now and then but nothing horrible. 
Broad breasted can not fly, midget white fly very well but you can clip their flight feathers if flying is a problem. Basically they fly as good as chickens. Honestly our friend has had blue slate, royal palm and bourbon red.....they all flew too. I think flying is just something you have to live with if you want turkeys.
Our midgets will roost in trees if we let them, as in If I dont go give out corn in their pen about 30 minutes before dark. They follow me to the pen and fly back in or I open the gate and they walk back in for the corn, by the time they are done eating they just roost inside the fence in the apple trees. 
Really the turkeys, even the midgets dont fly away from me and herd like ground animals. Kind of like ducks but a lot quieter and buckets calmer.
Midget whites are a smaller bird, hence the name. They are heritage so slow growing. All turkeys start laying/breeding at 6-7 months if there is enough light.
For butchering broad breasted are 4-5.5 months, heritage are 6-7.5 months. Or whenever they reach the size/weight you want. Turkeys get very big, like I am 5'3" and their heads are at my waist at this point, midgets are probly 3" shorter.

Per research:
The midgets are small and only dress out at 6-12lbs
They may or may not sit and raise poults (some say yes and some say no)

I always thought I would prefer the eye candy i love blue slate, bourbon red, royal palm etc but we wanted smaller turkeys because for DH and I we dont want a 20-25lb dressed bird and many other people want smaller birds or buy two small birds cause they stay juicer. So both the midgets and the beltvilles are small and totally white. I will tell you the pure white heritage turkeys are really stunning and I love them more then I thought I would. If you wanted a bird a little larger then the midget but not full size the beltsville will dress out to 15-18lbs. If you want larger yet something like a bourbon red will dress out to 13-25lbs.

From my experience even the broad breasted are friendly, not as much as the midgets but way more then any other poultry we have. I will say I did spend a lot of time with both breeds while they were in the brooders. I spent the same amount of time with the swedish blue ducks though and they are manic and wont let you closer then 3ft.

Only thing that stopped Sara's lead poisoning was freezer space. He came up to the house for the gun, I had to remind him the freezer was full and we had more to butcher. Sara is going in a friends freezer instead.


----------



## Baymule

That’s some good turkey talk. Husband is already trying to squish the idea. You’d think he would learn by now....... LOL poor man married a tornado. 

Are the poults hard to raise? I’ve always heard that they die very easily. Got any tips on keeping them alive?


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## misfitmorgan

We didnt actually have to much trouble. I gave them grow gel as soon as they arrived, and
Sav-A-Chick Electrolyte & Vitamin as well as Sav-a-chick probiotic in their water for the first month. Then we just fed them per normal with turkey starter, then turkey grower.

I will say make sure your heat is consistent in your entire brooder, turkeys are not dumb like most people portray them but they are a little dense and can do stupid things like go stand in the only drafty corner in your brooder.

The other biggest tip never ever let the waterer go empty. We did that once with our broad breasted, and 3 drank themselves to death in a matter of about 15 minutes. Then it took 2 weeks to train them back out of it, which included making them puke when they drank to much and taking the water out as soon as everyone had an appropriate amount of water. We basically had to give them water, take it out, give them food then come back every hour and give them water again until they got big enough and learned not to try to drink themselves to death. So yeah just avoid all that and never let the water run out for broad breasted. Our heritage never had that problem but doesnt mean they couldn't.

To make them friendly I just spent a lot of time talking to them, and hanging my hand down in the brooder with my ring on. The diamonds in my ring(sparkles) made them brave enough to approach my hand. Plus side if I need a certain turkey to come closer to me I just show them my sparkly ring and they walk closer. 

Other then the water incident and one turkey deciding to go sit in the drafty spot I didnt find them horribly hard to raise. Pick them up instead of having them shipped if you can, if you have them shipped order extra. We did lose 4 poults in the 48hrs after shipping however they got stuck in shipping and took over 3 days to get here without food or water. These were all hatchery stock as well. This was the broad breasted.

The midget whites I ordered from Ideal Poultry and I'm super happy with their vigor and quality. They are just such beautiful stunning white birds. The boys dance and show off for me whenever I go down to see them and they actually started doing this while still in the brooder at like  4-5 weeks old. Ideal does have a minimum of 10 turkeys for an order but you can mix and match and they have all heritage varieties. Another bonus, they are the cheapest hatchery price on heritage poults.


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## farmerjan

I'm with @misfitmorgan  on Ideal Hatchery.  They contract out for the rarer breeds of poultry, and the turkeys, so many are actually out of purebred show type stock.   Have gotten several orders from them over the years and they have been super to work with.  Had a batch of chicks arrive.... a friend was the "postal person"  on duty and she called as soon as they got there and told me that there was something wrong because they weren't peeping like they should be.  I was there in half an hour.... they were all dead.  Called Ideal right from there, told them and they didn't even ask to talk to the postal person.... said they believed me.  I had called from the P.O. in case they needed to talk to her.  I have had very good liveability with most all their other shipments.  
Don't know how far they are from you @Baymule ... might be able to pick them up.


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## frustratedearthmother

I'm a firm believer in Ideal Poultry also.  In fact, just got 20 chicks from 'em last week - all healthy and vigorous.


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## Baymule

They are about 3-4 hours away, no big deal, but their web site says that you can't pick up turkey poults. Probably because they contract them as @farmerjan said.



frustratedearthmother said:


> I'm a firm believer in Ideal Poultry also.  In fact, just got 20 chicks from 'em last week - all healthy and vigorous.


What did'ja get?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Nekkid Necks, Silver Laced Wyandottes, Black Australorps, and something else, lol. Oh yeah - their own Leghorn type white egg layers...Ideal 236.  Five pullets of each.  Bought 'em after I thought all my pasture chickens had disappeared.  Pasture chickens all turned back up and I've got 20 more mouths to feed.  Funny how things turn out, lol.


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## misfitmorgan

I went out and got some pics and a video of the turkeys...I know how everyone likes pics.


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## misfitmorgan

This is one of the hens. She actually laid her head under my leg but I didnt get a picture. Also they have blue eyes.






This the same hen I picked her up and put her on the hip board for the High Tunnel because the boys were getting really interested in her.


.

You can also see some of the broad breasted in the backround of some of the pics, also displaying for me.


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## misfitmorgan

Hopefully I did this linking correctly. Its a very short video, my phone was dying.


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## Bruce

I'd argue against Ideal having near show quality stock. My first 12, in 2012, came from Ideal. No problems with the girls but the Salmon Faverolles were the smuttist looking birds. Nothing near proper color. Anais is still alive, she's been a great chick raiser though not willing to take day olds even when she was broody. 

They had Cubalayas when I ordered which is why we went with Ideal, DD1 liked the little Cubalayas. I see they don't list them any more. I wish they would improve their website with better pictures of each breed. Pictures of the chicks isn't real helpful to know what the adults look like. Meyer has a lot better description and pictures of their birds.


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## Baymule

Great turkey pictures! Thanks!


----------



## farmerjan

I was referring to the turkeys mostly being from purebred, more show quality type birds.  Although they do also contract out for some of the rarer breeds of chickens, it is much easier to just get more commercial type of the different chicken breeds even when they contract out since it is hard to find some of the breeds raised in any numbers for commercial hatchery needs.  They are much more restrictive on what they offer in turkeys.  If you want show quality birds, you have to buy from someone who raises them for show.  That said, some of the stock that comes from these commercial hatcheries are decent, and better quality can be bred up with them.  And, some of the quality of the breeds is barely representative of what they really are.


----------



## farmerjan

Agree with @Baymule , nice turkey pictures.


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## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> I was referring to the turkeys mostly being from purebred, more show quality type birds.


Ah, I inaccurately "broad brushed" the comment.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thank you

We are making slow progress on our new high tunnel. Not for it being difficult to build but simply because DH doesnt get home until 6pm and has to be in bed by 9pm so we are only getting about an hour of work done for the weekdays. Here is a picture of just the hoops. We have the hip boards and base boards on now as well. The high tunnel is 12ftx32ft and we are guessing between 9-10ft tall.


----------



## Bruce

DW would love one of those.

Lumnah Acres, Pete B. and Tractor Time With Tim
all did similar projects (playlists linked above with their names), maybe there is some helpful info for your build. It seems that pulling the fabric over the top is the hardest part, get some help for that!


----------



## farmerjan

Yes, the pulling over the top is tricky.  Had my 6'6" son help put the top piece over the "greenhouse in a box"  by Shelterlogic,  that I had the frame for .  Didn't take alot but he was tall enough to reach the 8' tall to just get it to slip over and then easy to work it down.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

_Happy New Year, Miss @misfitmorgan!_


----------



## misfitmorgan

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> _Happy New Year, Miss @misfitmorgan!_


Thank you, Happy Late New Years to you as well @Senile_Texas_Aggie

Hello All!

The hoop house has been done for awhile now and it came out great so far no issues. The middle top ended up being about 9ft if i recall right. DH is 6' 4" but still had to get a ladder. Pulling over was the easiest part to be honest. We tied a rock with rope to the plastic on each corner then tied the rope ends to half full water bottles and threw them over the top.  Took 3 tries to get the rope over but then we just walked and held the rope.  I know DH has pictures of the hoop house with the plastic on so i will share it when he sends it to me. Cost ended up being around $800 total or a 12ftx32ft hoop house but we did have used plastic, most of the lumber already and windows for venting.

We had one of our turkeys for thanksgiving and it was delicious!

Ivy's daughter had a son about mid November i think. Don't recall for sure but he is doing great and a handsome little boy. All the goats appear to be bred and should start kidding later this month or February.

So far winter is warmer then usual which I am enjoying a lot. Not much else going on.


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## Baymule

Glad that you checked in, don't stay away for so long!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Glad that you checked in, don't stay away for so long!



I have been on 100% work from home for 2 months and time flew by.


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## misfitmorgan

Really wish Latestarter was still with us. I think about him a lot. I never met him in person but I still notice his absence on the forum pretty darn often.


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## B&B Happy goats

misfitmorgan said:


> Really wish Latestarter was still with us. I think about him a lot. I never met him in person but I still notice his absence on the forum pretty darn often.


Me too, I was thinking about him yesterday and thought he would sure have a lot to say about our current situation  here in the USA, lol...I miss Joe alot


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## misfitmorgan

B&B Happy goats said:


> Me too, I was thinking about him yesterday and thought he would sure have a lot to say about our current situation  here in the USA, lol...I miss Joe alot



I bet he would for sure!!


----------



## Mini Horses

Another who misses him!   Just not the same.


----------



## Bruce

Yep, I miss   too.


----------



## farmerjan

Didn't know him near as long as some, but we had several discussions about beef .... and he was the first to welcome new members.... 
Wonder how his kids are doing....


----------



## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Didn't know him near as long as some, but we had several discussions about beef .... and he was the first to welcome new members....
> Wonder how his kids are doing....


That's what got me thinking about him, seeing the new members forum and no LS welcoming everyone.


----------



## Baymule

I miss him too. We visited back and forth. Although he was a good cook in his own right, he sure liked coming here, cause I always cooked a big dinner. His antics, successes and failures, freely posted on his journal, always kept us in stitches.   Flying pigs indeed! You know, he never did get another pig!


----------



## misfitmorgan

I think LS just loved people and enjoyed your company more then your food. I don't at all mean your not a good cook just mean he likely would have come over for a glass of water if you invited him.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Well we finally seem to have some cold weather, It was -6F a couple nights ago and 14F when i woke up this am. So we all know what that means!!

Kids/lambs should be coming soon. I mean it's been pretty nice all winter until now so I'm sure they will be popping soon. Forecast shows next week is all teens for the high until friday.

Honestly everyone waits. We did separate the rams for breeding so hopefully there was no fence line breeding. We tried to plan for march babies for the sheep.

The goats are kind of whenever, and look pretty heavy. Ivy, Espresso and PB should be prego, Ivy's white daughter I saw standing by the buck pen doing the come hither stuff so she may not even be bred.


----------



## Bruce

Are you expecting the super cold temps next week or is that running south of you?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Are you expecting the super cold temps next week or is that running south of you?


Pretty cold temps, been overnight in the negatives since saturday night and highs in the teens.

I called the cold snap = lambs. 
We had one lamb born thursday night and one born saturday night. They are still alive so far and are outside. I did put sweatshirt sleeve coats on them but thats about all I can do besides make them bottle babies which I dont want too. They do have bedding, a roof and a wind break. The ewes are being very good moms. If the lambs can make it through monday we will be staying back into the mid to upper 20s for a week then back into the 30s. Last thrusday was 42F, this winter is odd.

Both lambs are rams...of course. So far we have just been trying to put hay in the shelter as well to encourage some of the sheep to stand around inside and provide some body warmth.

With the sucess of the hoop house we are planning a hoop barn built this summer. As long as there is any sun at all it stays noticable warmer inside. There are vents on both ends above the doors which takes care of condensation for the most part and we can use shade cloth that snaps into the same wiggle wire channels for summer. 

The hoop barn would have the bottom 4ft pony walls, and the ends walls would be either all or mostly all wood. With our current bender we are limited to 12ft wide, we will either stick with that or get a 16ft bender, DH wants to just buy a pipe bender.


----------



## Baymule

It is amazing to me that newborns survive in such cold. Your ewes ARE good mommas to keep care of their babies. 

Your hoop barn sounds interesting, got any pictures? I built a hoop chicken coop with bent over cow panels. I attached used tin to it with wood 1x4 slats on the inside.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> It is amazing to me that newborns survive in such cold. Your ewes ARE good mommas to keep care of their babies.
> 
> Your hoop barn sounds interesting, got any pictures? I built a hoop chicken coop with bent over cow panels. I attached used tin to it with wood 1x4 slats on the inside.


Honestly I'm pretty amazed to, I didnt think they would. I'm highly tempted to put heatlamps up but there is just no way to do it safely in their current shelter. The highest part of the roof is only 6.3" feet tall down the center peak. I could in theory hang a light or two down the middle but since the tallest ewe which is mom to one is right around 4ft tall I wouldnt feel safe hanging them more then 5ft off the ground. So the small amount of heat that got to the lambs would likely end up with the ewes laying under it.

I thought about a hotbox like we did for the lambs and kids in the past but the problem there is we have the two should have been butchered ram lambs who jump on top of everything. So it would have to be more of a permanent box to be strong enough to support the potential 200+lbs on top of it.  I also proposed a pallet A-frame idea to DH which he is shaky on, he is worried the adult ram lambs would climb on it and the heat lamp would end up against the wood, straw or hay.

There is also the fact that last year we put up a heated area only the kids and lambs could get too. They wouldnt go in it. We left it up and running for a month and finally took it down because the straw was dry and fresh with no sign of any bathroom usage. I caught the adult goats with their head in it a few times but thats it. 

So one half of me is wanting to give them a warmer place and the other half is like but the electric bill if they wont even use it.  As near as I can figure each heatlamp costs us around $32/month to run so putting a couple in the sheep shed is a significant ding to our power bill. There is also the concern of our power going out and the heat lamp dependent lambs dying. So I dunno I'm really torn.


DH has pics of the hoop house, I will ask him to send me them.


----------



## Baymule

We certainly don't get your cold temps, but it has been right at freezing and next week it will be in the 20's and teens. I was worried over the ewes dropping lambs in the cold, but it hasn't fazed them one bit. I have a  large lot attached to the barn (which is really just a lean-to roof coming off the side of the portable building-3 sides are open). One ewe lambed in the lot, twins, one small, a few days ago and she kept them there for two cold nights. 

These little guys are tougher than we think. 

A neighbor was worried about all my lambs and wanted to set up a heat lamb in the barn, I said no. He was surprised by my refusal. Haha, he puts one in his chicken coop, despite me saying they really don't need it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

As many horror stories I've heard about barns burning down I'm super paranoid about heat lamps. I triple secure them all. The clamp is clamped on something, the little hoop on top is tied up to something else and the cord is then tied up to something else. So unless all 3 fail it should be safe. I still worry though.

Last year a local pig barn went up and all approx 60 pigs but 2 died. Around 3 years ago a local sheep barn burned to the ground, they lost about 20 sheep in the fire because they were in jugs. The ones in the loafing area got out but they lost another 10 over the following week or two from effects of the fire.  Both of those fires were from heat lamps.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

misfitmorgan said:


> As many horror stories I've heard about barns burning down I'm super paranoid about heat lamps. I triple secure them all. The clamp is clamped on something, the little hoop on top is tied up to something else and the cord is then tied up to something else. So unless all 3 fail it should be safe. I still worry though.
> 
> Last year a local pig barn went up and all approx 60 pigs but 2 died. Around 3 years ago a local sheep barn burned to the ground, they lost about 20 sheep in the fire because they were in jugs. The ones in the loafing area got out but they lost another 10 over the following week or two from effects of the fire.  Both of those fires were from heat lamps.


I feel the same way about the heat lamps,... the horror and guilt that I would feel having them trapped in a fire sure outweighs  the thought of the frigid weather killing them, ...I guess I would rather nature being their demise than by human error...
We use them.. but secure them like, crazy, and I can't  wait to turn them off and put them away....


----------



## misfitmorgan

B&B Happy goats said:


> I feel the same way about the heat lamps,... the horror and guilt that I would feel having them trapped in a fire sure outweighs  the thought of the frigid weather killing them, ...I guess I would rather nature being their demise than by human error...
> We use them.. but secure them like, crazy, and I can't  wait to turn them off and put them away....



The people with the sheep farm that burned have not gotten over it, they sold all the livestock they had left and had their house for sale. They raised sheep there for 18yrs and I think that was the last straw maybe.

The pig farmer killed himself 2 weeks after the fire. I have no way of knowing but assume it was more the money lost thing then guilt over the fire itself....He didnt have livestock or accessory building insurance.

I feel bad when mother nature kills something but if I am directly responsible it's so much worse. 

Even on the brooders there is mesh the heat lamps rest on, then i tie the lamp itself up to 2 different points so nothing can knock it off the brooder.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

misfitmorgan said:


> The people with the sheep farm that burned have not gotten over it, they sold all the livestock they had left and had their house for sale. They raised sheep there for 18yrs and I think that was the last straw maybe.
> 
> The pig farmer killed himself 2 weeks after the fire. I have no way of knowing but assume it was more the money lost thing then guilt over the fire itself....He didnt have livestock or accessory building insurance.
> 
> I feel bad when mother nature kills something but if I am directly responsible it's so much worse.
> 
> Even on the brooders there is mesh the heat lamps rest on, then i tie the lamp itself up to 2 different points so nothing can knock it off the brooder.


I guess one can never be to cautious  especially when it comes to fire, such a horrible  way to go .....
I feel  so bad for the people you mentioned, I think I would sell out and move too, sure wouldn't  want to live with those memories  in my face daily


----------



## Baymule

On my baby chicks I use a 100 watt bulb. I have heat lamp bulbs, but have rarely used them.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> On my baby chicks I use a 100 watt bulb. I have heat lamp bulbs, but have rarely used them.



 I thought about that esp close to the end of brooding when it is warm weather out. The batch from spring the last 3 weeks we had to go out and turn off the brooder lights around 10am and turn them back on about 10-11pm otherwise it was to hot.


----------



## Bruce

I use a Mama Heating Pad brooder for the chicks I get. But then I don't gets dozens at a time.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I use a Mama Heating Pad brooder for the chicks I get. But then I don't gets dozens at a time.


I have thought about the heating pads I just didnt think they would work very well. Glad to know they do. We usually only have 10-25 chicks per brooder so if it could handle that it might be something to look into.


The two lambs are still going! It was -14F last night, those rams are going to be some good breeding stock making some tough lambs when they grow up. Last night was the last day of our cold snap, the rest of this week is in the mid to upper 20s and next week is all in the mid to upper 30s. This weather is nuts, next tuesday is going to be 39F!


----------



## Baymule

Tell me about nutty weather! LOL LOL You will have some tough sheep! I’m glad it’s warming up for you. We got more snow last night,  3” on top of the 7” we already had. Texas weather has gone nuts.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> We usually only have 10-25 chicks per brooder so if it could handle that it might be something to look into.


One XL pad can handle 10, for 25 you would need to make a cave long enough for 2 XL pads. Make it wider, not deeper.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Tell me about nutty weather! LOL LOL You will have some tough sheep! I’m glad it’s warming up for you. We got more snow last night,  3” on top of the 7” we already had. Texas weather has gone nuts.


Hope you guys are doing well in your crazy weather.



Bruce said:


> One XL pad can handle 10, for 25 you would need to make a cave long enough for 2 XL pads. Make it wider, not deeper.


Thank you for the info!

Our weather report was wrong...today is gonna be 41F now they say, yesterday and the day before was 35F. The little ram lambs are still doing fine by all appearances. We also had a girl lamb born on Saturday, she is doing well and good so far. Seems she is the big ewe's baby. I thought one of the rams was because she kept being mothering to it, i'm thinking that was just her pre-labor hormones. Oddly though she will let them both nurse, so she may be good for orphan lambs down the road. So I really have no idea whose baby the second ram lamb is. The first ram lamb is 310s baby. All 3 are full suffolk and none are small. I have gone out there several times to try to see who the other ram lambs mom is but everytime they see me or DH they just gaher around the fence and complain about needing more grain. Thats normal and fine but they ignore the lambs so I can't tell who mom is, so we mostly watch them out the window and try to figure it out. I think this weekend we are going to have to go flip some ewes to get it sorted out.


----------



## Baymule

One week ago it was -6, today it will be 75F. Our freeze is over, snow is melted and gone. We did not lose any animals, all lambs survived the cold. We have friends that lost calves to the cold.

Hope you figure out who mom is for the lamb!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> One week ago it was -6, today it will be 75F. Our freeze is over, snow is melted and gone. We did not lose any animals, all lambs survived the cold. We have friends that lost calves to the cold.
> 
> Hope you figure out who mom is for the lamb!



I'm glad to hear all the freezing weather is over for you guys. Calves are touchy and raised in cold barns or outdoor pens here. For dairy they get 24hrs to nurse or get a bottle of colostrum then outside they go or off to the cold barn.  Beef calves are just born outside in the field, most farmers won't even count their calves until they run the herd thru shoots for the spring cull and tag/vaccinate/castrate anyone who needs it. The fall cull is when they separate the calves from the cows.

Cow farmers here do not tolerate stock that isnt hardy. If the calf can not survive the cold they dont want it in their herd usually. Calves that not hardy become cows that are not hardy and in the harsh weather we have you can't have that. 

DH got called an animal abuser by his co-workers daughter last week. He was telling his co-worker about the lambs, the daughter is 21yrs old. DH said she was welcome to buy them as bottle lambs and keep them in her house for the next 2 months! Shockingly she didnt take the offer.


----------



## Baymule

Cows here are not conditioned to the temperatures we had last week. They wouldn’t make it where you are. But then, cows from there would have a heat stroke here. LOL


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Cows here are not conditioned to the temperatures we had last week. They wouldn’t make it where you are. But then, cows from there would have a heat stroke here. LOL



Very true! Different types of conditioning for different areas. Livestock here do have it rough they have to be able to survive weather down to -37F and up to 112F. To be fair both ends of that scale are rare events, a more average scaled would be -15F to 99F which is still quite a range.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Not sure if I posted it here but we are up to the 2 ram lambs, 1 ewe lamb and now our first ever suffolk twin lambs were born yesterday evening. We have not had a chance to check sex yet as we didnt want to interupt their bonding. They are fairly small and it was 13F last night so hopefully they made it ok. They look to be pretty petite and a lighter black so I am inclined to think girls but that could be a result of being twins as well. All the lambs born so far are suffolk.


----------



## Baymule

Congratulations on the lambs, especially the twins.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Congratulations on the lambs, especially the twins.


Thank you Bay!

We ended up with 9 lambs from our 7 ewes. We currently have 8 left. One of the mutts had twins and one was super small and did not make it past the first 24hrs. It was actually "warm" at that point so I think it just wasnt strong enough. It was of course a girl.

The lambs all look to be thriving and all ewes are being good mothers.


----------



## Baymule

Lambs are so much fun. I’m glad you got 9 healthy lambs. Will all of these be sold?


----------



## misfitmorgan

All the males except the one from the big ewe will be sold. The big ewe's ram lamb is ear marked to become a herdsire due to his parents size so long as he keeps performing well. The suffolk ewe lambs will be retained for breeders. 

We will be looking into selling our smaller ram Captain for this falls breeding. The plan would be to breed these ewe lambs with the new ram fall 2021, then to breed those offspring to the big ewe's ram lamb for fall 2022. If all goes well there we would sell our current big ram. We shall see what happens but our big ram is getting sort of old at this point I believe he is 6 or 7yrs old.

We definitely need to cull last years ram lambs. The butcher got backed up then our freezers got full. DH says just buy a new freezer, which I can do but the place to put it is the issue. So meanwhile I'm cooking food as fast as we can eat it. To compound the problem though my sister moved last minute and asked me to empty her freezer because she had no room for the food to transport it and the movers wouldnt move it unless it was empty. So......yeah atm there is zero space for freezer lamb. Coming out of winter isnt the best time to butcher anyhow, so hopefully before spring ends.

The weather here is nuts it was 55F yesterday and today and all in the 40s last week. Most of the snow has melted and everything is turning to mud. The winter sheep/calf pens look absolutely horrible.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> yeah atm there is zero space for freezer lamb


I could manage to find space in my freezer for a few packages of your lamb 
Did you sister at least not move too far such that she can come get her stuff?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I could manage to find space in my freezer for a few packages of your lamb
> Did you sister at least not move too far such that she can come get her stuff?


When we get them processed I can send you some for sure Bruce though it won't be prime at that point because they are over age.

My sister moved to another state for the time being, so no she wont be coming to get it. I didnt post it here but right before christmas it came out that her husband had done some inappropriate things with her oldest daughter in 2018. My sister reported it to the police and her husband was arrested. So basically my sisters entire world came crashing down over the next few months including all assets being frozen and a mortgage she can't afford. Sentencing still has not occurred for her husband and he is out free in the same town she lived in. She was scared and moved until everything is over with, with the permission of the courts and no one but her and I know where she moved too. I miss her but I understand her reasoning.


----------



## Bruce

That is horrible!!!!!! And I suppose all he has at the moment is a restraining order to stay away from your niece. 

Give her some  from me because she surely needs that.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> That is horrible!!!!!! And I suppose all he has at the moment is a restraining order to stay away from your niece.
> 
> Give her some  from me because she surely needs that.



Yes the whole thing is horrible. Yes there is a restraining order now but only after he stopped at the house to check the mail and texted my sister to check the mail more often. He seems to not really be in touch with reality so much after this all happened which is what got her scared. I will give her a hug when I see her again.


----------



## Baymule

What a terrible ordeal for your sister and her daughter. I hope that justice is served and they can pick up the pieces of their life and start over.


----------



## misfitmorgan

My sister and her 5 kids are doing ok. My niece is/was young enough that it doesnt seem to be causing her problems atm. The worst part of the entire thing for my niece is they have now made her give statements twice and are making her give a statement on the stand against her father. It seems overly cruel and like they should not be allowed to require her to do that. My niece is only 11yrs old and I think that is a lot to ask of any child.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

misfitmorgan said:


> My sister and her 5 kids are doing ok. My niece is/was young enough that it doesnt seem to be causing her problems atm. The worst part of the entire thing for my niece is they have now made her give statements twice and are making her give a statement on the stand against her father. It seems overly cruel and like they should not be allowed to require her to do that. My niece is only 11yrs old and I think that is a lot to ask of any child.


I agree  with you, it is extremely  cruel to make that girl get on the stand....at 69 years old I am still bothered by my own experiences  being molested  as a young child...I wish my parents  had talked to me about it and told me that it wasn't  my fault, that things would be ok, back then it wasn't  talked about and was kept a secret....I'm sure your sister and family is being very supportive  of her   ....my heart goes out to you and your family ...please give your niece a big hug for me.....I am so sorry she is forced to testify  in court, that is about as horrific as being molested


----------



## misfitmorgan

B&B Happy goats said:


> I agree  with you, it is extremely  cruel to make that girl get on the stand....at 69 years old I am still bothered by my own experiences  being molested  as a young child...I wish my parents  had talked to me about it and told me that it wasn't  my fault, that things would be ok, back then it wasn't  talked about and was kept a secret....I'm sure your sister and family is being very supportive  of her   ....my heart goes out to you and your family ...please give your niece a big hug for me.....I am so sorry she is forced to testify  in court, that is about as horrific as being molested



I know things used to be different back when, and I'm sorry you didnt get the support you needed. We have told our niece many times and in many ways that none of this is her fault and she didnt do a thing wrong. She was walking around for awhile after he got arrested, very upset thinking her siblings would hate her if their dad went to jail because of her. We made sure that point was set straight for sure.
I just hope mostly for her sake this is all over soon.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> and are making her give a statement on the stand against her father.


I thought they had kids do a video away from the courtroom?? I agree, it would be traumatizing for an adult let alone a child. 

Dad isn't going to jail because of her, he's going to jail (I hope) because of him!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> I thought they had kids do a video away from the courtroom?? I agree, it would be traumatizing for an adult let alone a child.
> 
> Dad isn't going to jail because of her, he's going to jail (I hope) because of him!


I dont know. They made her do a statement, then a recording and then told my sister she had to go on the stand as well. I dont understand why they are making her do it that way. I told my sister to ask her lawyer if they are allowed to make her go on the stand being that she is a minor and they have a written statement and a video statement already. We are just hoping it's all over soon.


----------



## Baymule

I went to church with 3 women whose father had sex with each one. None of them knew he was molesting the other sisters, they thought that they were keeping their sisters "safe" from him. The youngest finally blew the whistle on him, he went to prison and died there. One of them has taken a sleeping pill all her life or she has nightmares where he is coming for her. There is no punishment that is harsh enough for a monster like that.


----------



## misfitmorgan

It's a terrible thing that's for sure.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The lambs are all doing well and most have found their springs by now. We need to go out and castrate, band tails and put in ear tags. We will be listing the boys up for sale soon.

The goats have still not kidded, they look heavily pregnant though.


----------



## Bruce

They are waiting for you to get really busy with something else.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> They are waiting for you to get really busy with something else.



No no, they are waiting for the next snow/ice storm and temps to drop below freeing again....dont be silly


----------



## misfitmorgan

Ok so our big ewe consistently has 2 lambs nursing off of her and is taking care of both with out any problem. The thing is I believe she stole the second lamb from one of the other ewes. The only reasons I care is because if she did steal it firstly that's amazing but secondly it wont be her genetics. If she somehow had twins and I just thought one of them was from another ewe.....that I saw it nursing off of but the other ewe may have in fact stolen from the big ewe. Whenever I try to to go outside to watch them the adults all complain for grain and ignore the lambs so I've been trying to watch out the window but the distance is a bit far to read ear tags and I cant see the entire pen.

So basically, how do I figure this mystery out? If I could see the big ewe with the "twins" and the ewe I thought was one of the moms has a different lamb that answers it. At this point flipping ewes to check won't be very helpful because as far as I know they have all had lambs now. 

Least the mutt lambs are easy to tell apart from the suffolk.


----------



## Baymule

Go feed them and stay with them until they call their lambs to them to nurse. In the evenings I feed and hay the ewes, then I sit on a milk crate to enjoy the sheep. The ewes follow a pattern, they gobble the pellets, then eat hay and when satisfied, they call their lambs to nurse. In between the lambs come up to chew on my clothes, shoestrings and get scratches. The ewes come up to get petted and scratches. This is the time they are most relaxed and is the best time for observation.
I didn’t ear tag as the lambs were born. I normally have spotted sheep and recognize what lambs go to what ewe. This year I had 19 lambs, 11 of which were white! Oops. I realized a little late that I might have a problem and used the evenings to sort them out. I either grabbed them as they were nursing or squirted with food coloring to tag later.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Go feed them and stay with them until they call their lambs to them to nurse. In the evenings I feed and hay the ewes, then I sit on a milk crate to enjoy the sheep. The ewes follow a pattern, they gobble the pellets, then eat hay and when satisfied, they call their lambs to nurse. In between the lambs come up to chew on my clothes, shoestrings and get scratches. The ewes come up to get petted and scratches. This is the time they are most relaxed and is the best time for observation.
> I didn’t ear tag as the lambs were born. I normally have spotted sheep and recognize what lambs go to what ewe. This year I had 19 lambs, 11 of which were white! Oops. I realized a little late that I might have a problem and used the evenings to sort them out. I either grabbed them as they were nursing or squirted with food coloring to tag later.



Would be a great idea the trouble I am having is if I am out there they all think I have something for them eventually even if they have already eaten their grain. I stood outside for 45 minutes yesterday watching them and the only thing I saw was one mutt nurse her lamb and the big ewe call her twins. I am inclined to think she had twins and 294 didnt lamb. 294 has never been thrifty, always a smaller very thin ewe which is odd as she is directly off of slack lines but I believe her dam was inferior as the sire was full slack and huge. But she is always having problems with wool growth and weight. Looking at the big ewe and the twins, the twins are truly twins, exact same size, color and wool growth....to the point I can pick them out from the group of 8 lambs without any trouble because those are the only two that look a like.

This weekend we have plans to pick up the gravel the county snow plows were so kind to sling into the first 6ft of our yard along our entire property. The piled gravel on the shoulders right before snow flew, like a foot tall and the plows plowed over to far, so everyone has front yard gravel and no one is pleased.  The shoulder is completely flat down to dirt pretty much. Then start our spring clean up...it shall be one heckin task this year.


----------



## Baymule

Does this put 294 on the cull list or does she make up for her shortcomings by having a bodacious lamb (when she lambs)?  

You have to go pick gravel out of your yard? Rake it up maybe? We have rock in our driveway, it seems to wander off into the grass. Do rocks have legs?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Does this put 294 on the cull list or does she make up for her shortcomings by having a bodacious lamb (when she lambs)?
> 
> You have to go pick gravel out of your yard? Rake it up maybe? We have rock in our driveway, it seems to wander off into the grass. Do rocks have legs?



As soon as a replacement is old enough she will likely be on the cull list. I still have to verify if she has a lamb on her, if she does she is safe. She does also I noticed yesterday have a very large(as far as sticking out, area is like size of a quarter) lump on her cheek like she has an abscess. She did not lamb last year or the year before, the year before we put it down to her being young still, last year she was thin come breeding time so never took, this year we flushed more heavily and she was a good weight going into and coming out of breeding season. So if she had no lamb this year she is likely done, I really wanted a girl lamb out of her though if she is really that weak/un-ideal it's probly not the best idea. The slack line she is from is different then the other slack we have in our herd already and slack's are all monster size suffolk.

Our basic breeding goal atm is to combine the size of the slack lines with the less locally common Kimm lines we have. Both of those farms breed for all around sheep, maternal instinct, udder, conformation, loin/leg size, amount of muscle, etc etc.

Really goes to show that if people just buy a pricey ram and badly bred ewes the results don't usually make anything good. Best case the ram's genetics come out on top and you dont see the faults until the next generation. I dunno pretty bummed about it atm.

Yes like a half truck load of gravel.....in our yard.... We have not ditch between out yard and the road, in fact no one in our section of road has a ditch. So it's road, gravel shoulder, our lawn/yard....but instead of being our nice grass that DH takes good care of this year it is gravel. So much gravel you would not be able to mow the grass, it is legitimately a problem. I will get a picture if I can remember too. Given my picture history though I wouldn't hold your breath.


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## Bruce

The same thing happens here. I used to mow the grass between the road and fence, now it is all road dirt and gravel.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> The same thing happens here. I used to mow the grass between the road and fence, now it is all road dirt and gravel.


We generally get a bit of gravel spread into the yard but this is ridiculous.


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## misfitmorgan

Not a lot to report here. We are working on pasture fence and spring things. We have all the T-posts in on the first pasture, the corners posts in, the metal corner braces in, and the gate hung....next stop the page then electric insulators then electric wire and charger/ground rods.....then sheep! WE are also wanting to put down a nice pasture mix where we have bare ground which isnt a ton but we keep getting temps below freezing at night lately so we are waiting.

We have also made the choice that if market prices stay good all of our ram lambs are going to the auction this year along with the buck Ivy's daughter had. Not sure what is going on with the goats but the only one to kid was ivy's daughter last fall and the only one looking prego atm is phoebe's daughter who is currently making a bag.

The garden is tilled and waiting for warm weather, I have some seeds to start here in the house and a bunch of new bulbs for the flower beds that need to be planted. We also got different types of morning glories and a moonflower to go on a decorative/ sound buffer fence we want to build in the front yard. We shall see if that happens this year or not....hopefully it does.


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## Baymule

New pasture getting fenced in! Fencing is one of those jobs that is so satisfying when done, but lots of work going on until finished. Congrats, you are almost there.

Hope you get the sound buffer fence up, have you considered cow panels?


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## misfitmorgan

The 


Baymule said:


> New pasture getting fenced in! Fencing is one of those jobs that is so satisfying when done, but lots of work going on until finished. Congrats, you are almost there.
> 
> Hope you get the sound buffer fence up, have you considered cow panels?


The lots of work part is right! we are doing everything very beefy this time as we want the fence to outlast us...because we never wasnt to have to do it again lol. This is the first pasture of manys so lots of fencing left...sadly.

We did look at cattle panels and hog panels, originally wanting to use those. After more research I found out though that it takes a 10ft width of greenery to even see a tiny bit of reduction of noise, so we are now thinking we will use a wooden fence for the morning glories and moonflowers to climb on. I would like a tight picket fence, but we shall see what happens. My current vision is a tight picket fence with a narrow flowerbed below it for planting the flowers into and maybe some stones or blocks for the front edge of the flowerbed.


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## misfitmorgan

After 4 years of hoping we finally had moonspotted Boers, we had a set of twin girl moonspotted boers. The smaller girl didnt survive(there is a thread on her and her white muscle disease) her sister is doing well. For anyone who reads my journal, this is Jupiter.


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## Baymule

She is very pretty. I love moonspots! Do you have a moonspotted buck?


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## misfitmorgan

Yes she is adorable! And yes we have a moonspotted boer buck named Mr. Goat I posted pics on him I believe last summer when we got him. He is not an awesome looking buck for muscling but he sure is pretty. We were hoping for moonspotting for several years now and getting bucks who had spots in their past, as well as phoebe's dad was moonspotted. Phoebe's daughter FB is the mom of the two moonspottd kids. 3 other goats look prego so we will see what they give us, this set of twins was his first offspring for us.


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## Baymule

I hope you have more moonspotty babies!


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## misfitmorgan

To save anyone digging I['m going to upload some pics again.

This is Mr Goat's(our moonspotted buck) dad as a kid



This is him as an adult




This is Mr. Goat's mom




This is Mr. Goat as a kid




I cant find my adult pics of Mr. Goat on this pc.


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## Baymule

Mr Goat is a very pretty spotted boy! We go to an auction to sell our lambs and whenever a moonspotted boer comes through a bidding war starts. Everybody loves moonspots!


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## misfitmorgan

I can understand that! Esp up here where I live there are not many moonspotted boers. Most people up here think moonspotted means mutt meat goat lol.


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## misfitmorgan

My own personal house elf....she is fascinated with the stairs.






As of Sunday night the new pasture is finished and the goats are living in the new pasture with a temporary truck topper shelter. They seem pretty happy and the best part, no one has jumped out. They have met the electric fence with our new fencer several times and have gained respect for it. The new fencer is no joke, we went with a Power Wizard PW1500. It maxes out our 7k volt fence tester with 2 ground rods. We will be adding a third ground rod when we add the next section of pasture which we are currently planning for. We also went and bought all the supplies for the new turkey and chicken fences. So those are next on the list but will be pretty quick.

We are looking at a small tractor a Ford NAA aka golden Jubilee, it's only 33HP and very old but has the original loader and everything is working, as well as it had a new paint job on the entire thing except the hood, fenders and grill a few years ago. The best part is it is only $2,800. We actually own a Ford 601 Workmaster which is 48hp so a littler bigger but it is currently a basket case. The steering is out of whack some place and the hydraulics need to be completely redone, DH has owned it for about 10yrs but it hasnt been working for the past 8yrs. We looked into having it repaired and found is the problem is the loader, which is much to heavy for the tractor and what wrecked the steering and hydraulics, so it would cost $1200 to fix it and we would have no loader. So the current plan is to likely buy this Jubilee this year and then buy a older 60hp tractor next year, so we have two tractor for making hay. Then we should be good for a couple years and if we need something bigger we will look at whats available. We do already own a 2 bottom plow, a disc, a harrow, a brush hog, a tiller, and a small square baler...so a tractor that can run those things is all we need atm.


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## Baymule

I love your house elf, adorable! We enjoyed our bottle lambs in the house, but were glad to transition them to the barn. We let them run around with baby diapers on, secured with blue painters tape. LOL They had a large dog crate with XL dog potty pads, which they pawed into a wad, then peed and pooped on the plastic tray. Not so adorable then! Haha

How exciting to get a tractor! Ours is a 23 horse, small but is invaluable to us. Neighbor Russel has big cab tractors and can be hired for big stuff. Your new to you tractor may be old, but it works and will be a huge help and that’s all that matters.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I love your house elf, adorable! We enjoyed our bottle lambs in the house, but were glad to transition them to the barn. We let them run around with baby diapers on, secured with blue painters tape. LOL They had a large dog crate with XL dog potty pads, which they pawed into a wad, then peed and pooped on the plastic tray. Not so adorable then! Haha
> 
> How exciting to get a tractor! Ours is a 23 horse, small but is invaluable to us. Neighbor Russel has big cab tractors and can be hired for big stuff. Your new to you tractor may be old, but it works and will be a huge help and that’s all that matters.


We have had house lambs and goats many times, when they start bouncing off the walls they go outside. Oddly though this is the first ever kid/lamb who has somehow house trained herself. She drinks her bottle then jumps in that bin with the straw and does her pee and poo, then jumps out, I have a potty pad on the bottom to absorb the pee. If it is not feeding time and she needs to go, she will go to carpet or fabric which since we have all solid flooring now except those stairs....I cut up some pieces of old carpet we had and put a potty pad under it. Then picked up my rugs lol. She has an old couch cushion for her goat couch because she kept wanting to get on my couch and since it's fabric.....you know what happened. She really is the best behaved house kid/lamb we have ever had. We have done the diaper thing many times and it's nice not to have to do it this time. Though I do have to change out the carpet every other day...good thing we saved most of the 1200sqft of carpet we ripped out. She will be moving outside soon though, we keep having freak weather where it is dropping to at or below freezing at night. So as soon as the weather gets it act together.

That's pretty much our thought, a small tractor is better then no tractor at this point. Since we have so much fencing planned this year and a barn to build budget friendly is what we need. We do plan to get that slightly bigger tractor next year as well so we should be ok. Honestly the 33hp tractor for the square baler is going to be pushing it but we have almost no incline on our hay field so it should do the job. We do however have a lot of bumps and ruts so we shall see how she goes.....need to buy it first lol.


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## Bruce

What is the PTO HP of the 33 HP tractor? I've found that to be the limiting factor on implements.


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## misfitmorgan

30.15hp is the official listed for the PTO.....this is a tractor from 1953 though so some of the ponies might have gotten out. It is still going to better for most things then our backs lol. We have a old small square baler that was ran behind a Ford 8N a few years ago, though it was a rough rough ride it got the job done so this tractor should be fine since overall a Ford 8N is 30HP, and 27.32np at the PTO when it was new.

We will definitely be getting a 60-75hp tractor next year if all goes well between then and now, so that we can do small rounds as we would like to switch to mostly small rounds. DH would work himself into the ground but at this point the less small squares we do the better. Ultimately I would like to end up doing nothing but large squares but you need a really big tractor for those balers like 175hp+ and we would need a lot of land to justify a tractor that size. 

We have been hoping the 80 acrre tillable next to us and the 125 acres tillable across the road would be something we could have a chance to buy or rent...however we are now hearing rumors the 86yr old women who owns them has sold both on a private sale. There is 40 acres for sale around the corner from us  which is a good price but it is just far enough away it wouldnt be super reasonable to put any livestock on it, the bottom 5 acres gets washed out most years, 4acres is trees, and 2 acres is the old homestead and barn. We have time and ultimately will likely be moving from michigan all together so maybe it's good we didnt get more land as it is at the top of the market pricing atm with most land going for over $2,500/acre.

We shall see what the future holds but for now as soon as the sales guys calls us back that tractor is sold.


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## Bruce

$2,500/acre would be cheap in a lot of places.

I think the 30 PTO will likely do the job. My 35 HP Mahindra is only 26 PTO so I had to go with the 5' flail, the 6' needs 30. Curiously an equivalent Kubota has about 30 PTO but my tractor can lift a fair bit more on the loader.


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## Baymule

$2500 per acre is CHEAP! But maybe the six feet of snow that comes with it and hangs around for months puts a damper on things....


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## farmerjan

Just one thing to think about with small round bales... You cannot really stack them.  They are very difficult to deal with.  Had a guy here that used to make them and he said he wished he had never gotten that small round baler.  They were the equivalent to small squares at 50-70 lbs.   They do not shed rain so have to be kept in like small squares... and you can't stack them like the squares with them having no flat sides so won't stay in place.  And you cannot feed out sections or flakes because they are rolled....


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> $2,500/acre would be cheap in a lot of places.
> 
> I think the 30 PTO will likely do the job. My 35 HP Mahindra is only 26 PTO so I had to go with the 5' flail, the 6' needs 30. Curiously an equivalent Kubota has about 30 PTO but my tractor can lift a fair bit more on the loader.





Baymule said:


> $2500 per acre is CHEAP! But maybe the six feet of snow that comes with it and hangs around for months puts a damper on things....



It's not cheap for us, the median income here is only $29,000/year per *household*.

That's why I drive 45 minutes to work each way and DH drives 30 minutes to work each way. Our "normal" land cost before 2020 was $1250-1500/acre so $2500 or more an acre is a big jump. Our 12 acres of just the land cost us approx $17,000 so $1,416/acre which is a bit high for what it is. At current prices the 80 acres would be $200,000 min vs $113,000 or less pre-2020 thats a huge difference. Kudos to the seller but it is not a buyer market here locally atm, all the city people are buying up everything here because they want out of the city......so they think.

Not really trying to be cheap, it's just never a good idea to buy high and then likely have to sell low down the road.



farmerjan said:


> Just one thing to think about with small round bales... You cannot really stack them.  They are very difficult to deal with.  Had a guy here that used to make them and he said he wished he had never gotten that small round baler.  They were the equivalent to small squares at 50-70 lbs.   They do not shed rain so have to be kept in like small squares... and you can't stack them like the squares with them having no flat sides so won't stay in place.  And you cannot feed out sections or flakes because they are rolled....



Thank you FarmerJan for the thoughts. We do know the perils of rounds, as we have used and made them for a few years just not last year. I would LOVE to go with the big squares exactly for the stacking and flaking however a 175+hp tractor and the large square baler is no place in our immediate future atm.

We currently only do 27 acres of hay, we used to do around 100 acres sometimes more but we had 2 hay partners then so we had a lot more equipment between both parties and we had the old tractor which hasnt been working for at least 6yrs now I think. Also moving 25 minutes from our old place didnt help because it makes no sense to take all the equipment that distance for a 5-10 acre field, on the older equipment with a top speed of 12-15mph that drive becomes 2 hrs each way.

We do plan on making some small squares as well but like 200 small squares and the rest rounds. None of us are getting younger, the DH and I both have auto-immune diseases which affect joints and produce early very early arthritis ....like starting in your late 20s. So we need to plan for a future where we are not moving and stacking 1,000+ small squares repeatedly each summer and having to lug 2-4 bales a day manually to the animals.

We have been discussing going more commercial farm direction with 45-60 breeding sheep/goats, just doing pork for ourselves and a couple cows or yaks. So it's time to start thinking and working smarter and less destructive to our bodies. Our farming theory before this was do everything the cheapest we can and usually that means things take way longer and are way harder. Our new theory is spent the money and get things done    That's actually because since my raise and DH new job we actually feel secure enough to spend.


In other news.....I present the Goat Couch(thats an old shirt of mine, she prefers to be "next" to me)


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## Bruce

There must be "sort of small" round balers. Al does them about 300 pounds. His small squares run 40-50.


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## misfitmorgan

Yes there are! The round baler we normally get our bales from is a 4x4 baler so bales only weigh around 500lbs, the large round bales are 5x6 and weigh around 1300lbs locally but if you get a hardheart baler it packs in more hay so they can get up to 1700lbs or so.

Usually the 4x4 balers can be run with 40hp but will run better with around 60hp....a small round baler is what we would be looking at simply because we are feeding 99% sheep/goats so no point in the big 5x6 which comes with a bigger price tag tractor. Currently with the sheep and the two approx 8 month old calves they eat a 4x4 round in about a week. Once the second pasture is up and the sheep are separated from the calves we should get about 10 days per bale depending on hay quality and if we are flushing or ewes are nursing.


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## farmerjan

Sorry, @misfitmorgan , when you said small round bales, I was envisioning small/small.  There is a guy here that makes "mini" sized small ones... weigh like 50-75 lbs.   silly looking little "sausages" sitting out in the field.  Yeah, a small round bale that weighs in the 3-500 lb range is a good size for a small operation.  As long as you can store them so that they are protected from the weather, they are a good size for small properties and numbers of animals with not much waste.  I agree with your thoughts completely.  
Sorry for my misunderstanding.  

We make smaller round bales for the one guy because his tractor/loader will not move the big ones we make.  So we do the 4x5's for him.... and can make them 4x4 if necessary.... the 4 ft width is not changeable but the amount of hay rolled on them can be changed from 4 ft to the 5 ft... like our big rounds that we make 5x5 to 5x6..... yes they do weigh in the 12-1500 lb range.  We do it to have "less numbers" to actually roll and "tie off" and less numbers to move from one place to another;  so less trips.  Less trips to feed too.  But there sometimes is more waste if they are not eaten fast enough.  We do roll alot of them out during the winter, so that all the animals can get to them quickly and evenly, and in the real cold, it gives them a place to lay on that is not the cold frozen ground.  And they will eat alot of them even after they have laid on them.  Then anything that is not eaten does contribute to the organic matter as it decomposes.  

Wanting to get the little bit bigger tractor with more horsepower is a smart move on your part... it puts less strain and wear and tear on the machine so will last you longer.
I also get the not practical to move all the haying equipment long distance and time consuming to only do "small"  single fields.  We are trying to cut out the expensive equipment moving costs too, unless there are several fields closeby to catch them all at the same time, it doesn't make sense to hay some of these places.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Sorry, @misfitmorgan , when you said small round bales, I was envisioning small/small.  There is a guy here that makes "mini" sized small ones... weigh like 50-75 lbs.   silly looking little "sausages" sitting out in the field.  Yeah, a small round bale that weighs in the 3-500 lb range is a good size for a small operation.  As long as you can store them so that they are protected from the weather, they are a good size for small properties and numbers of animals with not much waste.  I agree with your thoughts completely.
> Sorry for my misunderstanding.
> 
> We make smaller round bales for the one guy because his tractor/loader will not move the big ones we make.  So we do the 4x5's for him.... and can make them 4x4 if necessary.... the 4 ft width is not changeable but the amount of hay rolled on them can be changed from 4 ft to the 5 ft... like our big rounds that we make 5x5 to 5x6..... yes they do weigh in the 12-1500 lb range.  We do it to have "less numbers" to actually roll and "tie off" and less numbers to move from one place to another;  so less trips.  Less trips to feed too.  But there sometimes is more waste if they are not eaten fast enough.  We do roll alot of them out during the winter, so that all the animals can get to them quickly and evenly, and in the real cold, it gives them a place to lay on that is not the cold frozen ground.  And they will eat alot of them even after they have laid on them.  Then anything that is not eaten does contribute to the organic matter as it decomposes.
> 
> Wanting to get the little bit bigger tractor with more horsepower is a smart move on your part... it puts less strain and wear and tear on the machine so will last you longer.
> I also get the not practical to move all the haying equipment long distance and time consuming to only do "small"  single fields.  We are trying to cut out the expensive equipment moving costs too, unless there are several fields closeby to catch them all at the same time, it doesn't make sense to hay some of these places.



No worries at all I know you are just looking out for my best interests in an area you likely know more about then I do! I'm always happy to have your advice. Funny enough when we went downstate in 2019 on one of the trips I saw a field with those tiny round bales and was like wtf is that!!! I would never use those things they seem to be pointless. Though we did once own a mini square baler...basically a box thing you manually stuffed hay or straw into to make decorative mini bales about 20lbs. We did commission work for a local chirstmas tree guy, we made the bales and he took them downstate to sell them, it was a good money maker but we ended up just giving him the mini baler cause we got to busy to do it.

I highly doubt our new little tractor would lift large rounds either, thankfully we know the guy who can make small rounds if we want them and he will bale part of our field on shares if we like as he lives next door to it. Less bales is always good I just dont think the sheep would eat it fast enough and we dont have an unroller, though I have seen them in action and they do look handy.

As for the new little tractor...we are currently playing phone tag with the dealership as they only have one salesmen atm. Hopefully that works out soon.


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## Baymule

Y’all having auto immune problems, y’all are very wise to start thinking about that now. Planning to make things easier is smart and will make farming more of a pleasure than a chore.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Y’all having auto immune problems, y’all are very wise to start thinking about that now. Planning to make things easier is smart and will make farming more of a pleasure than a chore.


Thank you Bay, I do try to think ahead....doesn't always work lol but I try!


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## misfitmorgan

Yesterday we bought another truck. This thing is no beauty but its in good shape for what it is. We got a 2000 chevy silverado....... for $1500. It does have 343k miles on the body but the engine only has 200k on it, which is not low mileage but its was $1,500 lol. We were pleasantly surprised to discover, it is a 4x4 that works in hi and low, has a tow package and a brake controller. It does have some rust but far less then our 99 ford F250, the box is also in really good shape and so is the tailgate, those are the things that always rust and rot off in northern Michigan. It does have a topper which we are likely taking off. Needs some fluids topped up and some new tires soonish but seems ok otherwise mechianically. It does need the driver door bushing replaced, the driver back door needs a new handle and the tailgate needs a handle.....just for ease of use all the doors/tailgate work. It does drive nice, we drove it for 2.5hrs yesterday pretty much non-stop.

So we now own a 99 ford F-250, a 88 Ford tonner dump bed, a 2008 chevy s-10, a 2014 chevy cruze, and a 2000 chevy silverado 1500.....the f-250 is parked atm and the s-10 needs a motor swap...we have the motor. Basically we just needed a smaller running truck for going to the next town over and into town to pick up stuff, TSC stuff, building materials, etc that wouldn't cost an arm and a leg with the big truck and didnt make sense to take a tonner for. If I can get an appointment today I will be going to do the registration.


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## Baymule

With all those trucks, at least something will be running. In 2018, we had major break downs on everything. The truck and car were both down at the same time. The Kawasaki mule broke down. The only thing we had running was the tractor. Our daughter and son in law’s cars were broke down too. He got one of their cars fixed. A neighbor and co worker broke her foot and couldn’t drive, so he used her car to take them both to work. DD’s car ran, not well but enough to get to work and home, so they put off fixing it and gave us DSIL’s car to drive. It was a costly year! DH’s truck needed work FOUR TIMES! None were less than a thousand bucks. Credit cards got severely abused.....

Congratulations on the new to you truck. The price is great and it will be a good truck for y’all.


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## farmerjan

Congrats on the truck.  That is a good price and I fully understand having an "extra vehicle".  We have "lots" of trucks too.... and there is always at least a couple that are running, and a couple that need work.  And at some point, it will be a godsend to have something to drive when all else seems to go wrong... like @Baymule and her DH ran into that year.... I went through it too awhile back... and still don't have my little 4x4 ranger running yet.  I am still thinking seriously about putting a new rebuilt engine in my forrester because it is otherwise in very good shape and the newer stuff is just way too expensive to fix and costs way too much to buy.  
You are right that it is in very good shape for the age and the salt situation in the north.  Like up in New England, my dad's truck was so body rusted that it wouldn't pass inspection so DS got it for parts/engine etc., for our other vehicles.   The road chemicals eat them up I know.


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## Bruce

Doesn't it get a bit expensive paying for registration and insurance on so many vehicles?


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## Baymule

Farm tags here in Texas are less than $10


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## farmerjan

@Bruce ;   That is the difference between true "farming states" and places like the NE states.  I am not sure about some of the north eastern states, but I do know that in VT and maybe NH ( I think)  you have to have license plates for the farm tractors and the snowmobiles.... Here we simply have to have a "FARM USE"  plate on a vehicle if it meets certain qualifications.... and naturally you should have it insured for at least liability.... but they are covered under many farm policies. There are no tags required for tractors or wagons or trailers or other equipment.   No Charge for the farm use tag.... I think WVA has a permanent farm use type tag that costs  a minimal amount.  It costs me about $200 a year to have liability on the truck with farm use plates.....and to add more than the 5,  I think,  that are covered on the farm policy is about $100. per vehicle per year.  
Then there are also "Farm Vehicle tags" that many put on their trucks that are used for more than the 50 miles allowed on the farm use tags.... they cost half what the regular license plates cost..... many farmers have at least one of their trucks with Farm Vehicle tags, and then the plain farm use on the ones that are used just for strictly short distance farm use.  
We don't have to inspect the farm use vehicles.... but they should have the basic operating equipment working...brakes, etc.... but technically don't even have to have working lights if they are not on the road when it is dark.  Many have that old rusted up pickup that still runs to haul feed down the road to the other pasture or haul hay from the hay field up the road a few miles to the barn and such.  Usable, but not really "road worthy", for going too far.  
The slow moving vehicle "triangle" is on the back of most tractors and wagons and trailers and such that do not operate at normal road speed....


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> With all those trucks, at least something will be running. In 2018, we had major break downs on everything. The truck and car were both down at the same time. The Kawasaki mule broke down. The only thing we had running was the tractor. Our daughter and son in law’s cars were broke down too. He got one of their cars fixed. A neighbor and co worker broke her foot and couldn’t drive, so he used her car to take them both to work. DD’s car ran, not well but enough to get to work and home, so they put off fixing it and gave us DSIL’s car to drive. It was a costly year! DH’s truck needed work FOUR TIMES! None were less than a thousand bucks. Credit cards got severely abused.....
> 
> Congratulations on the new to you truck. The price is great and it will be a good truck for y’all.



That was a big part of it....more vehicles more options. Atm my 2014 cruze needs to go get a new catalytic converter put into it which will need it to be at the shop for probly a week....they wont be working on it that whole time of course but it will sit there for a day before they even look at it, then a day or two to get parts, then the work, then probly picked up the day after....which is why I have held off doing it. So now we have another vehicle I can drive if we need it. The 88 ford dump bed is a stick shift and I dont know how to drive a stick shift....yes I know I should and DH is teaching me but it's not a quick learning experience. So in the meantime a truck I can drive is good.



farmerjan said:


> Congrats on the truck.  That is a good price and I fully understand having an "extra vehicle".  We have "lots" of trucks too.... and there is always at least a couple that are running, and a couple that need work.  And at some point, it will be a godsend to have something to drive when all else seems to go wrong... like @Baymule and her DH ran into that year.... I went through it too awhile back... and still don't have my little 4x4 ranger running yet.  I am still thinking seriously about putting a new rebuilt engine in my forrester because it is otherwise in very good shape and the newer stuff is just way too expensive to fix and costs way too much to buy.
> You are right that it is in very good shape for the age and the salt situation in the north.  Like up in New England, my dad's truck was so body rusted that it wouldn't pass inspection so DS got it for parts/engine etc., for our other vehicles.   The road chemicals eat them up I know.



Chemicals and salt are really tough on vehicles here, that is what is killing our 99 F-250. The bed was so rusted it was saggin down on the tires which is why it was parked for a bit in 2019, DH ripped off the bed and put a flat bed on it. Now it has almost 600k miles on it(it is diesel) so it needs new spider gears, it also needs a new cab truely after DH rolled it in early 2018 I think it was. The 88 ford dump truck needs a new cab but again we needed a second running vehicle for the cab swap to be done. The 08 s-10 needs a new motor as I mentioned and we have the motor but the guy who is swapping it for us is still busy for another month at least and DH doesnt have time to swap the motors right now if we want to get anything done on the farm. We did look at newer trucks but esp right now every truck you find that is newer is mega bucks cause truck supplies are low. There is a 2000 silverado, almost the same truck with 40k less miles on it for 6k sitting at the local dealership right now, so $1500 was a super deal.



Bruce said:


> Doesn't it get a bit expensive paying for registration and insurance on so many vehicles?



Yes and no. Registration is about $120/yr per vehicle, it does go by MSRP of vehicle so like my car is $114, the dump truck has never been registered, and the new truck is not registered yet. The F-250 registration was about $136/yr but it is not registered atm, the s-10 is not registered atm. We have no inspection in michigan. The insurance for the dump truck and the new truck are PLPD and my car is full coverage, total it is $198/month for all 3 with roadside assistance for all of them and $500 deductible. So this is how it works, atm secretary of state only does appointments, so the state waived the need for registration, as to get an appointment atm the earliest you can get in is july 2nd. So lots of vehicles without registration. We get insurance on vehicles we will drive regulary, so my car, the tonner and the new truck. When things go back to normal if we need to drive another vehicle we get 30 day registration which is $20, then we call the insurance company and get 30 days of insurance which varies but is usually about $25. If we wanted things to be cheaper there are farm insurance companies we could use that will give temporary coverage for as little as 3 days and its around $5/day. So far we dont use the F-250 because it needs work done and the s-10 had never been on the road while we have owned it.

There are farm tags are $20 per vehicle for a year however we do not legally qualify as a farm in michigan atm. They also have a restrictions depending on registration type. There are 3 options.
Option 1 - $20 farm plate - must be a truck, used solely for moving livestock bedding, livestock feed, or transporting feed from storage place to storage place(includes feed mills)
Option 2 - 74 cents per 100lbs(empty weight) plus $8 fee - any farm truck, used exclusive in connection with farming activities to include transportation of the farmer and his/her family to all destination needed ex grocery store, doctors, feed mill, fields, etc. May not be used for "hire" jobs. Can be in an individual, company or corporations name.
Option 3 - temporary farm plate - choose from 3-12 months same restrictions as option 2, pay 1/10 the yearly fee for each month plus $8 fee plus $10 service fee.

To be a farm legally in michigan, you have bascially two options.
 1. “A farm of 40 or more acres in one ownership, with 51% or more of the land area devoted to an agricultural use.”
2. “A farm of 5 acres or more in one ownership, but less than 40 acres, with 51% or more of the land area devoted to an agricultural use, that has produced a gross annual income from agriculture of $200.00 per year or more per acre of cleared and tillable land. A farm described in this subparagraph enrolled in a federal acreage set aside program or a federal conservation reserve program is considered to have produced a gross annual income from agriculture of $200 per year or more per acre of cleared and tillable land.”

We do not own 40 acres obviously, so option 1 is out. There is a third specialty option which we do no qualify for, and a 4th option which we could use in the future if farm land is owned by us but not adjoining our home parcel. Option 2 is currently our only option, we own 12 acres however it is not yet 51% farm use atm...hence the pastures we are building. We can't claim $200/acre profit until we have over 6 acres fenced and available/used for farm activity and make a profit of at least $1,200/yr. Once we are legally a farm we can also use solely farm insurance for all vehicles used at least 50% for farm use, farm insurance is much much cheaper.

So yes it costs us more for more vehicles, no it is not a lot more. If/when we legally become a farm in the eyes of the state the costs will be low enough to not matter much anymore. For far tags you can up to 10 vehicles, for farm insurance there is not a limit but if you have over 5 vehicles insured you move to a commercial account which has big discounts. We also have permanent trailer plates, So you buy/pay for a plate once for a trailer (highway speeds) and that plate is good for the life of the trailer so long as you own it. The plates go by empty weight, but it's cheap 0-2,499lbs is $75, 2,500-9,999lbs is $200 and over 10,000lbs is $300. So you can have a very large livestock trailer pay your $200 for the plate once and use it for 10-15yrs...sometime more depending on the farmer. One local guy has two livestock trailers he has had for 25yrs and still uses them both.

Basically normally we will not have more then 3 vehicles plated and insured at one time. Our insurance without the tonner is quite a bit cheaper because it is a commercial truck, full coverage for my car and PLPD on the F-250 was $96/month.....my car and the tonner was $145/month, the new truck adds $53/month. We could also pay by the 6 months if we wanted it cheaper which we will probly start doing when the policys get reupped in August.

Sorry that answer is so long but it's all kind of complex.

Also on a side note.....all farm plates here say "log truck".....no idea why they went that route


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## misfitmorgan

So far we are very happy with our new truck!!!
We drove it home thursday night from about 2hrs away and did some running around locally. Friday it drove 6hrs round trip to pick up our new tractor, plus about 45 mins locally getting ready. It pulled the tractor and car trailer beautifully even up some steep hills without any struggle. DH did change all fluids and check everything over yesterday morning before the trip so it would be all topped up on everything. DH also picked up no door bushing for all 4 doors cause they are cheap and he said might as well do all 4 doors. Thos should be getting installed today or tomorrow. One of the best parts it did all that driving yesterday on less then 1 tank of gas, thats half the trip with an 2,000lb car hauler behind it and the other half with 5,000lbs behind it. To be fair the truck can tow up to 11,000lbs so it didnt really care about our tiny 5k behind it lol.

The truck today was used to haul 17 tires to the county wide clean up which DH volunteers at every other year(only happens every other year). First 5 tires are free then it is $1 per tire after that, so people save up their old tires instead of paying $5/tire at the local dump.

I think it's safe to say if that truck makes it a year we have gotten our moneys worth out of it and I wouldnt think it owed me anything. So far current plans are to fix a very slight oil leak and a very slight rear fluid leak, fix the door bushings and the couple door handles....otherwise she is great as is. DH also mentioned shocks as a possible thing, for our comfort which is only $70 for the full set. The oil leak is so slight it doesnt even drip on the ground and the rear fluid leak just means we need to pay attention to rear fluid before hauling, so no rush on those really. If she makes it over a year we will look at some body work for the rust.

Overall just really happy with the purchase!!


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## Baymule

I'm glad the truck is working out so good for you. It is such a relief when you make a good purchase and it does the things you need it to do.


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## farmerjan

We have similar restrictions on the different type of farm tags.... only our farm use "step one" does not go through the DMV.... the "farm tag" like yours has restrictions on types of use and how much, and then there are standard plates which you can do any/every thing with.  Our insurance is not quite as easy to work with as yours, but somewhat similar.  Our farm size restrictions are less, and are dependent on income more than acreage.  Allows for the smaller "truck garden" farmers that intensively raise vegetables and such.... I think the minimum is 3 or 5 acres... and you have to file schedule F for farm taxes, but that is pretty much all the proof.  

Glad the truck is doing what you want and need.  I am like you, the subaru outback that my son found for me late last fall, cost 1100 or 1300 ;  I don"t remember.... but if I get the year out of it, it is paid for in my book.  $100 a month more or less and that is cheaper than renting a vehicle and I can do whatever I want with it.  I am diligent with checking the oil as they seem to "lose oil", and then the engine blows.... and I haven't found a leak but it does need a little every 2-3 fillups.  It has a slight ticking, DS said a lifter, but some engine additive has quieted that somewhat.  It does not get the mileage that my 2wd ranger gets, but has a few perks... like heated seats this winter, and drives good.  I put new tires on it and new rear brakes.  But that is maintenance stuff I have to put on most anything sometime or other.  If I take care of it, I ought to get more than a year out of it.   My ranger was bought thinking a year or 2.... have had it for 6 at least, 3 deer "incidents",  and it gets pretty good mileage.  I paid 1100 for that......I have put new tires, a clutch ,throwout bearing, slave cylinder etc.,  new plugs etc once, and about 100,000 miles.  It doesn't owe me a penny but I sure hope it "likes me" enough to keep on trucking as I like that little truck.  4 cyl with 8 plugs (intake and exhaust) so a PITA to change them.... but runs good.  I do change the oil fairly regularly and have it serviced - greased etc. - at least twice a year. 
Like you, it is worth having.... without having to put a fortune into buying... 
Congrats on a great purchase.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> We have similar restrictions on the different type of farm tags.... only our farm use "step one" does not go through the DMV.... the "farm tag" like yours has restrictions on types of use and how much, and then there are standard plates which you can do any/every thing with.  Our insurance is not quite as easy to work with as yours, but somewhat similar.  Our farm size restrictions are less, and are dependent on income more than acreage.  Allows for the smaller "truck garden" farmers that intensively raise vegetables and such.... I think the minimum is 3 or 5 acres... and you have to file schedule F for farm taxes, but that is pretty much all the proof.
> 
> Glad the truck is doing what you want and need.  I am like you, the subaru outback that my son found for me late last fall, cost 1100 or 1300 ;  I don"t remember.... but if I get the year out of it, it is paid for in my book.  $100 a month more or less and that is cheaper than renting a vehicle and I can do whatever I want with it.  I am diligent with checking the oil as they seem to "lose oil", and then the engine blows.... and I haven't found a leak but it does need a little every 2-3 fillups.  It has a slight ticking, DS said a lifter, but some engine additive has quieted that somewhat.  It does not get the mileage that my 2wd ranger gets, but has a few perks... like heated seats this winter, and drives good.  I put new tires on it and new rear brakes.  But that is maintenance stuff I have to put on most anything sometime or other.  If I take care of it, I ought to get more than a year out of it.   My ranger was bought thinking a year or 2.... have had it for 6 at least, 3 deer "incidents",  and it gets pretty good mileage.  I paid 1100 for that......I have put new tires, a clutch ,throwout bearing, slave cylinder etc.,  new plugs etc once, and about 100,000 miles.  It doesn't owe me a penny but I sure hope it "likes me" enough to keep on trucking as I like that little truck.  4 cyl with 8 plugs (intake and exhaust) so a PITA to change them.... but runs good.  I do change the oil fairly regularly and have it serviced - greased etc. - at least twice a year.
> Like you, it is worth having.... without having to put a fortune into buying...
> Congrats on a great purchase.


The specialty option here for farm tags covers those small intensive operations, basically if you have a really small acerage but you produce a really high ag production with good profits you can legally be a farm so long as you do the Schedule F to show it and it is your main income source. Which is nice for people who do the small scale produce farms or vineyards etc. We do have a few local vineyards who team up with each other and some other farmers to produce wines that are local but sourced from several small farms which includes all types of fruits not just grapes.

We have a few people we know who don't get the concept of the old run down trucks. They keep telling us just buy a new truck and it will last you 10 or 15 years....yes that true but I would never buy a brand new truck or a year or two old to just mess it up with farming and have to worry about everything that will make a possible ding or scratch or dirty the interior. MY 2014 cruze is a perfect example of this, it is a very nice little car with leather interior, heated seats lots of bells and whistles etc, but any time it gets dirty I cringe and it stresses me out. These same folks are the ones who call us to do the dirty work with our old trucks because they dont want their 2019 or 2020 trucks messed up. So they basically are paying an arm and a leg for trucks they cant even use to do the farming they want to do. One of our really good friends finally saw the logic in it and bought an old beat up truck of his own and is soooo happy with it, he even told us you guys are right cause I dont care at all what happens to that truck and it is a relief.


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## farmerjan

With the cost of new nowadays, you cannot afford to use a truck like a truck.... it destroys the resale value of it.  
When someone says something to us about getting a new truck, we look at them and say, okay, what happens the first piece of equipment that gets put in the bed and scratches it up, or a dent when a cow backs into it and the metal today just kinks.... then it takes that 50,000 truck value down unless we spend a small fortune to fix it.... and they seldom last long enough to justify the amount of interest paid on it when you finance it.....

And the biggest thing for me now is the D@#N personal property taxes on newer vehicles.... Why do I have to pay huge taxes because I upgraded the vehicle I am driving... I paid enough taxes when I bought it.... and I have to keep paying my locality for HAVING a NICE VEHICLE.  How does my NICE VEHICLE change the condition of the locality???? How does my old "beater" vehicle change the condition of the locality???? 
I am not out to impress anyone with what I drive.  I need it to run, to get me where I want to go in a timely fashion and comparative safety.  I also don't need to be paying a ton in payments, extra money paid out in interest payments, that I can better put into my farm or something.  

So, I will never own a new vehicle again unless I win a huge lottery.  I bought a new 1979 leftover f-150 2wd supercab in the fall of 1979 after I got divorced.... for around 3,000.  I got the plymouth duster out of the divorce and I had the animals....used the duster for everything, but hauling feed and Hay was just too much.    Made payments.  Hated the first few scratches it got, then used it as a truck for everything.  But that was it.  

Anything over 20 yrs old here local,  are "aged out" of the personal property taxes.  So, that's the way I go.  No loans, no interest payments, no personal property taxes, no worries about a little scratch.... and most can be worked on by some of the regular mechanics.....

And the straight shift vehicles can still be parked on a hill and rolled if there is a problem with getting them started in a pinch.   My outback is automatic... the forrester was too... a godsend for the ankle replacement.... will probably help with the knee replacements in the beginning too.... but I like my straight drive vehicles.


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## Baymule

Some years back, we were picking up hay when we spotted an old truck out in the hay field. our hay guy had a repair shop at his house and he kept busy. We asked about the truck and he said the transmission was out of it, literally, it was in the back of the truck. The owner didn't have the money to fix it. upside of it, we bought it for $400. It turned out to be a Chevy 1500 stepside, I think it was an 1984 Silverado, not sure on the year, but it was a collectors item. We had the transmission put in, little things fixed, it drove great. But there was that collectors thing, turned out to be valuable. I wanted an old beater truck, not a collectors truck. We were buying this place, I was at a crossroads of further fixing up a super cool truck or putting up fence, barn, etc. Y'all know what I chose. We sold the truck for $5000 and I started buying T-posts, gates and wire. So much for me a beater truck. Guess I don't need one. DH's truck is a 2004 F250 Lariat Diesel that I bought for him when I worked for Ford, at invoice. Since we are retired and always go everywhere together, I don't need a truck. But sometimes I think about that Chevy and how cool it would have been to have it painted and redo the inside. Its more cool to have fence.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Some years back, we were picking up hay when we spotted an old truck out in the hay field. our hay guy had a repair shop at his house and he kept busy. We asked about the truck and he said the transmission was out of it, literally, it was in the back of the truck. The owner didn't have the money to fix it. upside of it, we bought it for $400. It turned out to be a Chevy 1500 stepside, I think it was an 1984 Silverado, not sure on the year, but it was a collectors item. We had the transmission put in, little things fixed, it drove great. But there was that collectors thing, turned out to be valuable. I wanted an old beater truck, not a collectors truck. We were buying this place, I was at a crossroads of further fixing up a super cool truck or putting up fence, barn, etc. Y'all know what I chose. We sold the truck for $5000 and I started buying T-posts, gates and wire. So much for me a beater truck. Guess I don't need one. DH's truck is a 2004 F250 Lariat Diesel that I bought for him when I worked for Ford, at invoice. Since we are retired and always go everywhere together, I don't need a truck. But sometimes I think about that Chevy and how cool it would have been to have it painted and redo the inside. Its more cool to have fence.


Ironically DHs baby and the truck he drove when I met him was a 1984 chevy 1500. He still owns it, but it has a 450hp engine in it so it guzzles the gas. He still has plans to finish rebuilding the rest of it and has a spare crated engine in case he ever needs it. We also have the 1999 F-250 lariat that is diesel too.....seems like we like the same typs of vehicles lol.

Not sure how this frendship with our 4lbs chihuahua mix and Jupiter is going to go once she is full grown. For now they are buddies and play mates.


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## Baymule

We should be neighbors.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> We should be neighbors.


Wouldn't that be nice!!

 My sister now wants me to move to ohio, cause for now it looks like she is living there. I helped her move over the weekend so she can sell her house here, part of the divorce. They have been remodeling the place for almost 4 years now, and she asked me to finish it so she can sell. Countertops, kitchen sink, tile backsplash, fix dings in the drywall, touch-up paint, new vanity in 2 bathrooms, paint the bedroom doors, lay new flooring in one bathroom, install a new light and extraction fan, rip out and replace an old bathroom mirror and light combo. Quite the list but it means the entire house will be re-modeled save one bathroom. Finishing it means she can likely sell for over 150k, she bought it 4yrs ago for 74k. It is a 6 bedroom, 3.5 bath house all one level with a 2 car garage on a double lot in the town over, on an expensive street, that is entirely remodeled except one bedroom. She is going to pay me to do the work, but it is a lot to fit in to our already busy spring schedule.

We have to shear sheep, de-worm livestock that need it, trim hooves, ear tags lambs, build the turkey fence, build the chicken fence and coop, build 2 more pastures, build 1 or 2 hoop houses for other people, sell our lambs and extra buck kid, put in our garden, bottle Jupiter 3 times a day, swap tires and do an oil change on our new tractor, build a new deck/landing for our 2-story as it partly collapsed about 3 weeks ago, plus work 40hrs/week each. Very soon we will have to start hay as well!

If the weather stays the way it is now, we will be doing first cut in 3 weeks or so. Which is a good thing but this year it is going to be hectic. We also still have about 100 small squares from last year in the top of our 2-story.

We also need to try to plan in getting the roof on our house re-shingled and a new front deck built. The previous owner build both the 2-story deck and our front deck out of rough sawn lumber......you can imagine how well that held up. Once again the house remodeling for our house is on the back burner and not moving any time soon.

DH did say if we could sell our place and buy a place fenced in with about 20 acres and be free and clear on it he would move anyplace I wanted. So there is hope there. If the market stays the way it is here we could easily get $120k+ for our house when it is done....when there will be time to get it done...who knows.


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## Baymule

That’s not a full plate, that’s the whole cafeteria line! Quite the list you’ve got there. I was out of work once in my early twenties and finally went to the employment office to see what they had. There was a guy in there looking for help roofing houses. I took the job, didn’t know a thing about roofing but I sure got an education. I thought I had been hot in my life, I found out real fast what soaked to my knees by 8 AM was all about. All summer long, in east Texas, first week I thought I’d die. LOL LOL But I have used that knowledge several to tear off and reroof my house, saving thousands of dollars. There’s another reason we should be neighbors!

Good luck on finding a house, 20 acres all fenced for $120,000. Prices here have gone crazy and from what I understand, it’s like that in many places. If you get serious, look at HUD repos or tax seizures. Ours was a HUD repo, we won the bid. Securing finance and dealing with a government entity was one of the worst experiences of my life. It ain’t for the faint hearted, but we sure got a nice place way under market and now it’s worth 4-5 times what we paid for it. Once we bought this place and sold our old house, we paid this one off.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That’s not a full plate, that’s the whole cafeteria line! Quite the list you’ve got there. I was out of work once in my early twenties and finally went to the employment office to see what they had. There was a guy in there looking for help roofing houses. I took the job, didn’t know a thing about roofing but I sure got an education. I thought I had been hot in my life, I found out real fast what soaked to my knees by 8 AM was all about. All summer long, in east Texas, first week I thought I’d die. LOL LOL But I have used that knowledge several to tear off and reroof my house, saving thousands of dollars. There’s another reason we should be neighbors!
> 
> Good luck on finding a house, 20 acres all fenced for $120,000. Prices here have gone crazy and from what I understand, it’s like that in many places. If you get serious, look at HUD repos or tax seizures. Ours was a HUD repo, we won the bid. Securing finance and dealing with a government entity was one of the worst experiences of my life. It ain’t for the faint hearted, but we sure got a nice place way under market and now it’s worth 4-5 times what we paid for it. Once we bought this place and sold our old house, we paid this one off.



We could do the roof ourselves...but when I have no idea. The garage leaked all last year and the porch started leaking last spring. IT needs to get done and seems like we have no time to do it. Also tear off is going to suck because both roofs are 3 layers thick.....which is illegal here. We also know we need to replace at least two chunks of sheeting.

Thats sort of the problem, the value of our house has doubled but so has everyone elses. If/when it is re-modeled, the pastures are done and the barns are done....it would go for over 150k easy....just the time it takes to do all that and once its done you kind of dont want to leave. If it wasnt for winter I would be very happy staying in our house forever.


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## misfitmorgan

We also noticed rain rolling in last night so we hurried up and seeded the lanes that will be between our pastures and a good portion of the new pasture. Think I posted what I remembered our pasture mix being the other day but here is it from the tag, most to least
Timothy, orchard grass, ryegrass, bluegrass, duo festulolium, alfalfa, red clover, and giant white clover. We also seeded down buckwheat, hopefully between the ryegrass, festulolium and buckwheat it will grow fast and establish well. 
Basically because we do not have time or land to give the pasture a year to establish we are planning to seed everything. Keep the livestock in only a few pastures while the lanes and other areas can mature, then switch next year and likely have to re-seed again but we shall see. ATM just the goats are in the pasture and they are still working over the trees and bushes, have not touched the existing grass or white clover.


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## Baymule

I don’t know how you do those winters! Not me! I’ll take the heat, that’s why there are air conditioners. LOL 

Trying to get pasture established here, I know how hard it is. Hope it all comes up and grows well for you.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I don’t know how you do those winters! Not me! I’ll take the heat, that’s why there are air conditioners. LOL
> 
> Trying to get pasture established here, I know how hard it is. Hope it all comes up and grows well for you.



When you are a kid winter with snow is awesome.....as you become an adult it gets to be blah.....as you get older as an adult it gets to be literally painful hence why the "snowbirds" go south for winter. I'm hoping to move south permanently before I turn 45, gives me 8 years but you never know what life will bring. I mean if I win the lotto or something I will be moving a lot sooner   

I still dont know where to move though, I love Tennessee, my sister now lives in middle Ohio, DH has family in Texas but he doesnt really get along with most of them and they live by Austin which I dont have a desire to be anyplace close too. Then also DH's work has a branch in Lousiana and South Carolina...so smh.

On a side note.....again....DH is currently trying to buy a sandblasting/painting business. If he does our moving would not be dependent on either of our current jobs. 

Basically DH had a really good friend named Jimmy, known him for 10+yrs. DH is the only person other then family Jimmy ever invited into his house, and the only person at all Jimmy ever let work with him. IT's saying a lot because Jimmy has been running the painting and sandblasting business here locally for over 30yrs, he has lived here his entire life. Well sadly a month and half ago Jimmy had a lights out heart attack while in the car with his son, daughter-in-law and his wife of 37yrs. I should also mention DH's Boss is Jimmy's son Kyle. So when all this happened a couple days later Kyle called DH to please come help him with his dad(jimmys) stuff because DH was the only one that knew what was going on with it since he was working on it with Jimmy. 

This is my long long winded way of trying to say Kyle and Jimmy's wife want DH to take over the sandblasting/painting business when they are emotionally ready for it. So DH has agreed to buy it, the it being the equipment as there is currently no shop location, Jimmy worked from his house after selling the shop location a year ago. Jimmy was well known and loved by many many people as a result his shop he opened on the main drag 3-4yrs ago had a lot of drop in's of people to BS with him. He said he couldnt get anything done and when he got a good offer on the building from the business next door he sold it. 

There is no lack of business in this area for sandblasting/painting, thats why DH was helping Jimmy because he couldnt keep up and has been turning down work for years. Even with turning down work the business was making about 80k/yr as a one man operation, so it would enable us to run the business and quit both of our jobs, atm both DH and I make 88k/yr combined. DH would do the work, I would help were I could and do the office/billing stuff as well as be able to focus more on the farm and going to commercial production with our sheep and maybe the goats. As mentioned you never know what life has in store, so we shall see. It is possible they wont be ready to sell for years and by then the customers Jimmy had could find other places to go or someone else might open their own shop. 2 days after Jimmy's death they had many people stopping and trying to buy things, the family rightly told them to get lost.


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## Baymule

That would be a portable business, that is needed everywhere. I take it that the equipment at new prices is high and there would be a substantial difference in price for Jimmy’s equipment.

It’s nice to be near family but not if you don’t get along with them. Your sister in Ohio, doesn’t it get cold and snowy there too? My advice, go where you will be happy.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That would be a portable business, that is needed everywhere. I take it that the equipment at new prices is high and there would be a substantial difference in price for Jimmy’s equipment.
> 
> It’s nice to be near family but not if you don’t get along with them. Your sister in Ohio, doesn’t it get cold and snowy there too? My advice, go where you will be happy.



Yes and no..DH is likely going to buy the bare minimum he needs to get started because two people already asked him to do work and everytime we see him they ask again. Since we now know it will be probly next year before they are ready to sell we willl likely go that route. For the set-up Jimmy had which is literally portable as it is all on a big trailer, to buy new would be $25,000 on the low end and thats not including the backups/duplicates of things he has like he has 7 paint pots, a back up blasting medium pot etc. We believe the purchase price will be around 10k for his set-up as that is about what the main bits are worth used. If every single peiece and part was figured in you could probly get it up a few more thousand but Jimmy's family are not the type for that, they would much rather it all went to one person and one person Jimmy trusted.

In the meanwhile if DH can find the bare minimum stuff used it will be around 5k, if he has to get it new it is around 8k. This would be like the very littler brother to Jimmy's kit and nothing you would want to use long term but will be good for back up or if you have a helper for a day or something like that.


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## HomeOnTheRange

We looked at these setups a while back:









						DB500® Mobile S | Startup Business Equipment | Dustless Blasting®
					

The DB500 Mobile S is ultra-compact and fits in a standard garage. Take your blasting services on the road. Blast wet or dry with Dustless Blasting.




					www.dustlessblasting.com


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## misfitmorgan

HomeOnTheRange said:


> We looked at these setups a while back:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DB500® Mobile S | Startup Business Equipment | Dustless Blasting®
> 
> 
> The DB500 Mobile S is ultra-compact and fits in a standard garage. Take your blasting services on the road. Blast wet or dry with Dustless Blasting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dustlessblasting.com


Those look nice! Probly really pricey I bet

That's basically what Jimmy has but his own homemade version with a clemko pot and large compressor and I dont know what all else. I do know his pot is big enough you can sandblast non-stop for several hours. The pot at DHs work he can sandblast non-stop for his 5hr work day before lunch, fill it then do the 5hrs after lunch and DH says Jimmy's is bigger.....whatever that means.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That would be a portable business, that is needed everywhere. I take it that the equipment at new prices is high and there would be a substantial difference in price for Jimmy’s equipment.
> 
> It’s nice to be near family but not if you don’t get along with them. Your sister in Ohio, doesn’t it get cold and snowy there too? My advice, go where you will be happy.


I forgot to say yes it does get cold and snow there but not for to long like just a few weeks. Most of winter is above freezing for temps. I did used to live in willow wood ohio which is about as far south as you can get in ohio. The weather is the same as northern kentucky and mid west virginia. My sister lives about 30 minutes from dayton ohio so a bit colder then willow wood. We will see what live brings.

Wherever we move I want to be closer to a USDA slaughter facilty and a stockyard. ATM USDA slaughter is a little over 2hrs away, and the closest auction is 2.5hrs away....so kind of a long distance for either one.

Over the weekend we got all the sheep sheared, tagged anyone who needed it, dewormed those who needed it, trimmed hooves, gave the ewes their annual CDT, and separated lambs. In about 4 weeks the boys will go to the auction. We have some really nice looking lambs this year and all but 2 are boys of course. At current prices, we should get between  $1,200-2,400 depending who is there buying that day. We normally sell directly off the farm but if we did that this year we would only make $600 at most as local people are still wanting to buy lambs for $75-100 despite them going at auction for $250-400 atm. Basically anything over $600 at auction and we will be happy. All the money is going towards the new sheep/goat barn. We have everything atm for the next section of pasture except, wood corner posts, insulators and electric wire.

We are keeping 2 ewe lambs this year, one is a really big suffolk girl lamb, she is about 50lbs atm and one mutt girl who is about 35-40lbs atm.


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## misfitmorgan

Yesterday our first gosling hatched....so exciting!!

We had 3 geese all sitting on one nest and a 4th on a separate nest. There are duck eggs mixed in the nest as well, so when the geese hop off the nest in 2 days we will toss those in the incubator.


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## Baymule

Congratulations on the gosling, hope you get more! What kind of geese?

If we had a pond, I’d have waterfowl. It’s too much work to create artificial ponds.

There is a small cattle pond near the road on one of the back roads near us. Last week a pair of Canadian geese had babies paddling behind their momma.


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## misfitmorgan

Thank you!!

The geese are white/grey Toulouse and Sebastopol cross. We have a manmade pond on our place that will be fenced off in the near furture to be the duck and geese area. Near future being you know.....next year or two lol.


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## Baymule

Yeah like “temporary” means it’s still there and I’m still using it.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Yeah like “temporary” means it’s still there and I’m still using it.


Exactly lol

So some odd events. Thursday around 10am my little 4lb chihuahua mix started barking like someone was here while I was in the bathroom getting ready for an appointment. So I looked out the front window and saw no one, she kept barking. Then I realized she was barking towards the back sliding glass door, I could see her in the doorway to the kitchen but not what she was barking at. I walked thru the kitchen to the back living room and there at the sliding glass door was a michigan rattlesnake...IN the house!! Thats a first, it was a big gravid female so we caught the snake and relocated it a couple miles away.

Next up.....our frost free date is May 23rd. We started planting  our garden on wednesaday(26th) including 4 bundles of onion sets, and 3 flats of tomatos and peppers. Friday night the 28th we got a killing frost and everything we planted in the garden is 100% dead now with the exception of maybe the onions but they look pretty bad. All my herbs and strawberries along with one cherry tomato I planted in containers by the front of the house look fine except one type of basil isnt looking so hot.

Here are my herbs and stuff at the front of the house.
Left back to right front: Flat leaf parsley, Greek Basil, Dill weed, Garlic chives, Sage, non-bulb Fennel, dwarf greek basil, savory, lovage, summer and winter thyme, rosemary, mini mint. I still need to pick up cilantro.





Sungold cherry tomato, Honeye Strawberries, english lavendar, and overwintered chives.....and no one sees that grass filled flower bed


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## misfitmorgan

Since you asked a million years ago Bay! This is the high tunnel we built last fall, currently no birds live in it but they did nice things for the grass. They never actually spent much time in it since there was a nofence. We need to put up turkey fence, the poultry net, and install the roll-up sides. We have the stuff for the turkey fence and poultry net, just need time to put them up. Eventually there will be a door at that far end where it is framed in too and those old crank open style windows we salvaged from a camper above the doors on either end. The plastic is used, we got it second hand from our friends who own a greenhouse business and when it needs replaced we will be using white plastic. 





This is our new pasture seeding coming in, hopefully it gets going good before those bigger weeds take over. Thankfully the frost got those bigger weeds and not our new seeding coming in so buys a little more time. The turkeys, ducks, rabbits, and other birds got a lot of our seed so we will be seeding it again in the fall.


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## Baymule

Wow! Super nice hi-tunnel green house! That’s too bad about the plants you set out. Gardeners are forever optimistic, freeze, drought, floods, bugs-we just don’t quit!

Rattlesnake in the house! Good dog! Hope you gave her a treat!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Wow! Super nice hi-tunnel green house! That’s too bad about the plants you set out. Gardeners are forever optimistic, freeze, drought, floods, bugs-we just don’t quit!
> 
> Rattlesnake in the house! Good dog! Hope you gave her a treat!


It is nice and only cost us $800-900 for a 12x32 hoop house. Kind of annoying we need to replant and lost the money for those flats, luckily we are friends with the greenhouse owners where we buy and get a mandatory 50% discount......not our idea.

Yeah I was pretty shocked to see a snake in the house let alone a rattlesnake and really wonder how it got inside! She got treats and lots of praise.


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## misfitmorgan

Today is picture day!!

This is one of our steer calves, the smaller of the 2.




Some of our ducks enjoying the weather.




My house elf spending some time outside with the lambs. The big metal thing is a creep feeder for the lambs.


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## HomeOnTheRange

Very nice hoop house!   I am hoping to get some caterpillar tunnels so I can grow year round. Your place looks great.


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## misfitmorgan

So that new "pasture" I keep talking about, This is what it used to look like aka the pasture is behind me in this picture.





This is what the goats did to it. In roughly 3 weeks, they are currently walking down all the brush , breaking the trunks and stripping the bark. They do get some hay to supplement but honestly are not that interested in it.






This is one of the bigger actual trees they stripped the bark from, you can see their temporary camper top shelter in the backround and some of the goats.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> It is nice and only cost us $800-900 for a 12x32 hoop house.


Wow, great price!!


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## farmerjan

Nice high tunnel.  I would like to have one like that for the layers in the winter too.  It would make an awesome "greenhouse" for plant starting in the spring.... but then the chickens????? 
I feel for you on the plants.  Our last frost date here is around May 10-15th.... one year we had 2 nights of 26 on Memorial day weekend.  The one local greenhouse/plant center was overrun by people that following week trying to find replacement plants.   I had just gotten my garden plowed that year, and hadn't gotten anything in it the week before, had bought started plants and all.... so I was so very fortunate.... 
We got down to 44 last night, it was chilly.  Especially after days in the 80's....


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## Baymule

Those goats are bulldozers on hooves! That is an instance where their destructive nature is welcomed. We pass by a place every once in awhile that started out as a wild tangle with barely a strip to put up a fence. Enter the goats. Two years later, the plentiful trees are goat trimmed 5-6 feet up, even from the road as we zip by, we can see through the property and now can see their house. Nice place.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Wow, great price!!


Thats the price you get when you put the kit together yourself instead of ordering a pre-made kit. It even has 4ft spacing on the ribs for snow load vs the 5ft everyones standard kit has....then giving you the option to upgrade to 4ft for an extra $XXX. It survived snow all winter, it slides off well and has survived 45-55mph gusts without any issue. Very pleased with it.



farmerjan said:


> Nice high tunnel.  I would like to have one like that for the layers in the winter too.  It would make an awesome "greenhouse" for plant starting in the spring.... but then the chickens?????
> I feel for you on the plants.  Our last frost date here is around May 10-15th.... one year we had 2 nights of 26 on Memorial day weekend.  The one local greenhouse/plant center was overrun by people that following week trying to find replacement plants.   I had just gotten my garden plowed that year, and hadn't gotten anything in it the week before, had bought started plants and all.... so I was so very fortunate....
> We got down to 44 last night, it was chilly.  Especially after days in the 80's....


Basically our plan to get around that is build two more hoop tunnels. Summer time hoop tunnels and winter time hoop tunnels. We can swap them, plant, then put them back in for winter. We are today getting a nice used shed, that will be the layer chicken coop for their summer shelter but the turkeys will still use the high tunnels and meat birds will too. Then in winter when the layer are not laying they get the high tunnel. The grass here was growing and green in the tunnel the end of march, the outside grass didnt start growing until late april this year because of the cold spring. So it should def work for extending our growing season. 

The new sheep/goat barn is planned to be this same concept but bigger and on wood pony walls. The new barn is planned to be 20ftx36ft Its basically going to be a homemade barn like Babs with the center height being around 12ft tall and swapping out the transparent greenhouse plastic for the opaque white plastic.

We are not happy about the plants, We called our friends and they set aside a flat of tomato plants for us to pick up today, We will also grab a second flat of peppers so will end up just 1 flat short of what we had.



Baymule said:


> Those goats are bulldozers on hooves! That is an instance where their destructive nature is welcomed. We pass by a place every once in awhile that started out as a wild tangle with barely a strip to put up a fence. Enter the goats. Two years later, the plentiful trees are goat trimmed 5-6 feet up, even from the road as we zip by, we can see through the property and now can see their house. Nice place.


They are, they are doing a good job in such a short time. Dont ever get your place clear cut....that mess of sticks and branches, stumps and reject trucks all over and what you are left with. The previous owner apparently also liked to hide trash in the woods so we keep finding those "treats". Having the tractor is going to be a big help clearing that mess all out.


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## misfitmorgan

So not sure if I mentioned it but DH brought me home a shed on memorial day. Someone in the next little town over had a 10x12 shed they wanted removed from their newly purchased property. So DH loaded it up and brought it home for a chicken coop for me instead of building the chickens another high tunnel. I'm pretty happy with it. We have used metal roofing we will be putting over the shingles since they are no longer doing their job of keeping water out. The front of the shed buy the door needs the bottom half of the osb replaced and there are shelves inside that need ripped out(with plywood on them that we will for fixing the osb. Then a coat of paint, install skids with a chain, nest boxes, two small vents, a recycled window, roost poles, a light(inside and out) then put up the chicken yard and it will be done. Pretty good for a almost free chicken coop and saves us the two weekend days it would take to do the hoop house as well as the $800+ for materials.
Here are some not so great pictures of the shed.







We went to the auction yesterday and took our little buck kid. He weighed 67lbs after being confined overnight, so probly 73lbs before his overnight stress/no feed. He sold for $170 which we are happy with because locally $125-150 is all we would have gotten. He was the first animal sold for the auction which wasnt grest because there were 18 goats for sale which they announced and I guess people thought there might be some better options coming. There was a 101lb buck that went 3rd and got $210 but he was a diary breed cross. So we sat thru almost the entire auction and kept out bidder numbers to ourselves.....until the calves came out. So effectively we turn our little buck goat into 3 calves and still left with $31 cash from the bucks sale. Overall a good day at the auction, we got rid of a buck we didnt want or need and got 3 more bull calves.







So far some good some bad. The black and white one is doing fine and bottle trained. The little brown one is very young maybe 3-4 days old and not doing so great. He took a bottle ok last night but wasnt interested this morning. It could be that the time was just to soon for a second bottle as it was only 7hrs later. It is possible he may not make it which we knew when we bought him, he was $17. We gave him electrolytes so we shall see. The white and brown one is doing great, is bucket trained already, and is already eating hay. He is the heaviest at 71lbs, the black and white one is 64lbs and the little brown one is 41lbs.

We are planning on taking out lambs in next week or the week after depending on prices and how they look. A little more weight on them will not hurt our sale prices. We will probly bring home more calves, when we go to sell the sheep. The only big downside of this idea of buying auction calves and selling them as started calves or light steers is it means we are no longer exempt from TB testing and movement restrictions. I'm sure our local USDA lady will be calling us today to let us know we have to move to the other category and when we need to do our TB testing. In the eyes of the local USDA we are now officially cattle/cow farmers. We also have a deal with a guy down the road to take any of his calves he doesnt want to deal with.....he raises black angus. He said he has a few a year, usually not more then 5 but that is 5 free black angus calves we just need to pay for milk replacer, he will make sure they get colostrum for us. We are thinking we can carry about 10 bottle calves max at a time, and 2-5 weaned calves over 300lbs depending on our hay yield this year.. To that end we will likely take one of our bigger steers to the auction and keep the other to grow out for slaughter.

In other news....Ivy's light colored daughter had twins yesterday. One boy one girl, both have some spots and look to be doing well. She is being a good mom so far. I will see about getting pictures for you guys.


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## Baymule

Sounds like a good trade/auction to me! Hope the brown one makes it.


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## misfitmorgan

We lost the brown calf on Saturday. He would not stop scouring even with treatment, he did not want to eat even from the night we brought him home. He drank 1 bottle that night and it took 40 minutes. We tube fed him all the rest and we knew his odds were not looking good even Thursday morning.

We went to an auction Saturday in hopes of some hay equipment......nope it all went really high. We did get a 100gal water trough for our calves and two 5 gallon waters for our poultry at a good deal though.

Saturday we also picked up our new buck kid. I really wanted a spotted kid but DH talked me into a tri-color really nice looking boy. The breeding buck from the place we got his...omg! He is the thickest Boer I have ever seen in person. I mean he was absolutely massive......he looked a lot like this but the traditional red and slightly more height.




So really hoping we can use this buck to add width/meat to our kids, then cross back over to our spotty buck who is not so thick for the spots I want. Basically we will just keep swapping their kids for a couple gens until I get those spots locked in good then switch the bucks out. I would like my next buck to be a tiger spotted but we shall see. The new buck kid and Jupiter are currently living with the lambs and seem to be adjusting ok. The buck has called for his mom for 2 days, hopefully today is the last day as that pen very close to our living room, like 15ft away and he is LOUD! Jupiter wanted nothing to do with that "alien" for the first few hours, now they hang out most of the time as the lambs stay in their own group.

We got all the new tomatoes, peppers, and tomatillos replanted, not sure if I mentioned it. Then last night we put in the snow peas, sugar snap peas, potatoes, pickling cukes and slicing cukes. Tonight should be corn, dill, garlic, shallots, horseradish, pumpkins, squash, and maybe a few other things. Not sure what I can find local for cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, and brussels sprouts but if I can find the plants I will put those in too. Less plants/garden this year then we have done in the past, which suits me just fine.

We wanted to get more outside stuff done over the weekend but the weather tried to murder us. It was 94F saturdy and sunday....which is pretty dang warm for spring for us. A week and a half ago it was in the low 50s and forecasted to be in the 60-70s for the rest of the month. 

The new spotty twins are doing well, much less spotted then Jupiter but healthy and mom is doing a fantastic job!! She keeps them in the brush most of the time near her nest area she made and brings them out to the rest of the herd for 30-60mins a few times a day.

The lambs are putting on weight very quickly with the creep feeder up and full of sweet feed. The ewes are also filling back out fast now that lambs have been pulled off. We may sell our rams and look for replacements, not sure yet. We do like them but feel like we need some new blood in the herd. So far I have not seen any good rams advertised for sale though for replacements so we will have to wait until we see something we like.


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## misfitmorgan

The red and white calf still has scours, at this point im thinking it is the milk replacer. They have already been treating for coccidiosis and we have treated for scours for 3 days straight. No improvement as of yet in fact it is getting worse. So today we are going back to our normal brand which is suckle select. The brand I'm thinking is causing the problems is Dumor which we only got because it was on sale at tsc and $15 cheaper then suckle select. We have now spent well over the $15 we saved trying to treat scours. I find it odd that the dumor calf replacement could be that bad since for years we have used dumor nurse all for our lambs and goats without any issues.

A bit cooler today at only 72F but 76% humidity so you can cut the air. They are calling for a thunderstorm this afternoon so hopefully that cuts the humidity down.


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## farmerjan

Is the Dumor all  milk ?   I have never used it.  I only feed an all milk milk replacer.  Soy can cause terrible stomach upset for the newer calves.  They will be able to tolerate it more after they get bigger.  
My milk replacer is a local brand for this area as it is sold at our local feed mill with a "generic" label.  Can't tell you the name, as I really can't remember it.   I won't deviate from it... regardless of how cheap or on sale another brand is.... unless it is Land-O-Lakes.  That is my second favorite brand of milk replacer.  It is not cheap but I have not had any problems with either.  Some of the all milk ones don't smell as good as other brands either....

My suggestion is to take him off all replacer for 2 days, electrolytes only, several 1/2 bottles instead of 2 whole bottles if possible.... and get it all cleaned out of his system.  Use a gel tube type of probiotics and go back to the milk replacer at half the amount,  ie. 1/2 bottle, for one feeding, then see... go to a 3/4 bottle next feeding, and then a full bottle if the scours slow down/stop.  
Another old trick is add 1-2 raw eggs to the bottle.... helps to stop them up a bit and adds protein that is easily digested.   And I have often used people immodium  for slowing the scours and getting them firmed up... Anything with an antibiotic is going to cause more upset to the gut tract.  
Sometimes calves get the squirts and it is really hard to get them stopped.  The problem is , wherever they came from has "bugs" that are different than what you have on your farm... and then they went through the stockyards which exposed then to 9 million different "bugs" and their systems get overwhelmed even if they got colostrum.  

I do not buy calves at the stockyards anymore.....been there done that for too many years.  They have 2 strikes against them just by going through the sale.


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## Baymule

The steer we raised over the winter got scours. Son said to put raw egg in his feed and it worked.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Is the Dumor all  milk ?   I have never used it.  I only feed an all milk milk replacer.  Soy can cause terrible stomach upset for the newer calves.  They will be able to tolerate it more after they get bigger.
> My milk replacer is a local brand for this area as it is sold at our local feed mill with a "generic" label.  Can't tell you the name, as I really can't remember it.   I won't deviate from it... regardless of how cheap or on sale another brand is.... unless it is Land-O-Lakes.  That is my second favorite brand of milk replacer.  It is not cheap but I have not had any problems with either.  Some of the all milk ones don't smell as good as other brands either....
> 
> My suggestion is to take him off all replacer for 2 days, electrolytes only, several 1/2 bottles instead of 2 whole bottles if possible.... and get it all cleaned out of his system.  Use a gel tube type of probiotics and go back to the milk replacer at half the amount,  ie. 1/2 bottle, for one feeding, then see... go to a 3/4 bottle next feeding, and then a full bottle if the scours slow down/stop.
> Another old trick is add 1-2 raw eggs to the bottle.... helps to stop them up a bit and adds protein that is easily digested.   And I have often used people immodium  for slowing the scours and getting them firmed up... Anything with an antibiotic is going to cause more upset to the gut tract.
> Sometimes calves get the squirts and it is really hard to get them stopped.  The problem is , wherever they came from has "bugs" that are different than what you have on your farm... and then they went through the stockyards which exposed then to 9 million different "bugs" and their systems get overwhelmed even if they got colostrum.
> 
> I do not buy calves at the stockyards anymore.....been there done that for too many years.  They have 2 strikes against them just by going through the sale.


Thanks for the info @farmerjan you are right.....soy concentrate base! We wont be feeding that ever again. The suckle select we get is non-soy but I just had not made that connection. We will try your feeding suggestions!

Our first two bottle calves from the auction did fantastic. They had scours for two days then cleaned up and never had a problem again. That was on suckle select.


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## Baymule

You need a nurse cow like @farmerjan has!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> You need a nurse cow like @farmerjan has!


We are working up to it Bay! lol

The first two calves we got are the only cows I've ever owned. DH grow up around cows, working in barns, but he didnt have any part in deciding the feed and he was only 12-17yrs old so missed a lot in cow management. Atm the calves are far cheaper to learn on then a lactating cow. If we do well we get the bonus of a nice check and meat in our freezer at the end.


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## Baymule

And here on BYH, you get the advice and guidance from @farmerjan!


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## misfitmorgan

A definite perk!


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## farmerjan

Glad you found out that it is soy.... you will be able to incorporate it into their milk after they get to the 6 weeks or so stage, so can use it up... mix it in like 1/3 to 2/3 all milk to just use it up and they should do fine when they are that old they will also be eating so their natural gut bacteria will be working better.

I would just do electrolytes for 24 hours since you realize it is most likely the soy based causing the problem.... then try the good milk replacer


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## misfitmorgan

I guess I dont pay enough attention. I just went to make a bottle for Jupiter and realized nurse all is nor Dumor....it's MannaPro and is all milk no soy. Suckle Select is also made by MannaPro. Perhaps DuMor is just trash all around for replacers.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Glad you found out that it is soy.... you will be able to incorporate it into their milk after they get to the 6 weeks or so stage, so can use it up... mix it in like 1/3 to 2/3 all milk to just use it up and they should do fine when they are that old they will also be eating so their natural gut bacteria will be working better.
> 
> I would just do electrolytes for 24 hours since you realize it is most likely the soy based causing the problem.... then try the good milk replacer


I will do that Jan, thank you again!


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## misfitmorgan

@farmerjan After following your advice the calf was already looking much improved this morning. By last night he was looking like he would not make it another 12 hrs and wouldnt even stand on his own. This morning he stood up as soon as we got to the barn.

We also did a full cleaning of their pen yesterday and re-limed the floor, then put down a thick bedding of hay as they kept slipping on the chopped straw.


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## farmerjan

So glad that he has turned around..... it is amazing how bad the soy replacer can affect the calves.  Some can tolerate it but more cannot.  Getting their gut tract "cleaned out" of the soy, with the electrolytes... plus them giving him energy, and then reintroducing good milk slowly will hopefully do the trick.  A calf needs to be a little hungry... not fully sated... for the first week or so.  Because we cannot feed in the small quantities that they get when naturally nursing, as frequently as they nurse, it is sooo easy to overload the true stomach that processes the milk and it just "runs through them".  
He probably had little or no actual organisms like ecoli or anything causing the scours.... just the soy not agreeing with him.  But once they get weak, it is an open invitation for every bug there is to invade their weak immune response.  
I really hope he continues to  come back and do good.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> So glad that he has turned around..... it is amazing how bad the soy replacer can affect the calves.  Some can tolerate it but more cannot.  Getting their gut tract "cleaned out" of the soy, with the electrolytes... plus them giving him energy, and then reintroducing good milk slowly will hopefully do the trick.  A calf needs to be a little hungry... not fully sated... for the first week or so.  Because we cannot feed in the small quantities that they get when naturally nursing, as frequently as they nurse, it is sooo easy to overload the true stomach that processes the milk and it just "runs through them".
> He probably had little or no actual organisms like ecoli or anything causing the scours.... just the soy not agreeing with him.  But once they get weak, it is an open invitation for every bug there is to invade their weak immune response.
> I really hope he continues to  come back and do good.


He got some gel type probiotics as well and will get a half bottle of the new milk when I get home if he is still looking good, then the other half before bed tonight. If all looks good he is going to normal feedings after that. He was eatting very small amounts of grain and hay the day we brought him home which he seemed very young for but we didnt want to take it away if he was used to it. He was also already bucket trained as well though.

I'm wondering if they were crossed with something or just really small births. They were 68lbs and 72lbs if I recall right which is small for a Holstein calf and they were not freshly born. The first two calves were 86 and 89lbs but neither was bucket trained and had no interest in grain or hay.


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## farmerjan

There are so many dairy farmers doing cross breeding with their lower end" cows to try to get more out of the calves at the markets.  Many are using Swedish red or Norweigan red  , Montebeliarde is popular and they make a nice beefy but good producer in a dairy.  Then if ayshire or even guernsey or jersey is used the calves could come out red if the cow carries red.   The greater majority of jersy/hol crosses will be black and white or dark brown and white....they will have a different black and white pattern and you can tell them for several generations... but occasionally they will come out a chocolate brown with no white... although that is much more common in a swiss /hol cross.
It is very likely they are out of first calf heifers, so smaller calves.  Looking back at the pictures, I would say the browner one you lost was a cross, and the red and white one is a holstein... is has the black nose.

If he is interested in the grain, encourage it.  Any roughage like grain and hay helps to develop the rumen... Some calves want to eat more/sooner ..... some don't .  Hope he is doing good for you when you get home....


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> There are so many dairy farmers doing cross breeding with their lower end" cows to try to get more out of the calves at the markets.  Many are using Swedish red or Norweigan red  , Montebeliarde is popular and they make a nice beefy but good producer in a dairy.  Then if ayshire or even guernsey or jersey is used the calves could come out red if the cow carries red.   The greater majority of jersy/hol crosses will be black and white or dark brown and white....they will have a different black and white pattern and you can tell them for several generations... but occasionally they will come out a chocolate brown with no white... although that is much more common in a swiss /hol cross.
> It is very likely they are out of first calf heifers, so smaller calves.  Looking back at the pictures, I would say the browner one you lost was a cross, and the red and white one is a holstein... is has the black nose.
> 
> If he is interested in the grain, encourage it.  Any roughage like grain and hay helps to develop the rumen... Some calves want to eat more/sooner ..... some don't .  Hope he is doing good for you when you get home....


I do know Norwegian red is a popular cross locally with Holstein, so is jersey for higher butterfat. It is common for dairy herds here to be all Holstein and have a few jersey to help boost the overall butterfat. You once in awhile come across guernsey but they are no so common here. Several farms take calves in and have learned for the most part if they want to make anything at all on the calves they have to get them started on a bottle and not have wet navels. The buyers here mostly will not bid on a wet navel calf because the chances of them having gotten colostrum are low. The little brown one we lost was $17.50....we were the only bid on him. We wouldnt have but we want to try to give him a chance because if he went back to the farm odds are he would have been shot. He was just so small I doubt the farm would have bothered. The only reason he was brought was because he came on a trailer with 5 other started calves but our estimate was he was only 3-4 days old at most. The two we still have were at least a week old. 

Speaking of the two we still have....they are now doing great. Scours completely cleared up, they are acting normal and the red/white one cleaned himself off. He did overly clean a few spots though so he now has two bald patches by his tail base. Very glad they are doing well and kicking myself for the stupid mistake. I'm feeling guilty about the one we lost just because I keep wondering if it was the formula or something else. I'm am thinking something else because he was shaky on his feet from the time we loaded him, but that nagging voice yanno.

Here is a very poo picture of the new twins....I will try to get a better one. Just hard to do because she keeps them in the brush/woods most of the time for now. The lighter one on the left is a girl, the darker on the right a boy.





This is our new buck the night we bought him home. He wouldnt hold still so not the best pic but he was only supposedly 7.5 weeks old and he is a big boy. He dwarfs my little girl even though she is only 1.5 weeks younger. So either he is going to be a monster or he is older then his suspected age. He was dam raised vs bottle raised though so that could have something to do with it. I will about a better picture this evening since he has calmed down finally.


----------



## Baymule

I’ve seen brand new born lambs go through the auction, some couldn’t even stand up-already dying. I don’t know how people can do that. I don’t want to bottle raise any more lambs and will take them to auction, BUT they will be a week or two old, had colostrum and be well started. A bottle of milk will go with them. We have more money in milk than the two we raised will ever be worth, love them to pieces, now have a pet wether and the diminutive ewe lamb is the size of her triplet sisters.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I’ve seen brand new born lambs go through the auction, some couldn’t even stand up-already dying. I don’t know how people can do that. I don’t want to bottle raise any more lambs and will take them to auction, BUT they will be a week or two old, had colostrum and be well started. A bottle of milk will go with them. We have more money in milk than the two we raised will ever be worth, love them to pieces, now have a pet wether and the diminutive ewe lamb is the size of her triplet sisters.


I dont know either. I never would be able to but I also never would take a late pregnant animal to the auction. Doesnt make sense to chance of abortion or some other complication are to high. I do understand a lot of people do not want to bottle raised but there is still the option to as you said get it started on a bottle then sell which seems better as you would get more money then a wet navel going thru the ring.


----------



## misfitmorgan

So I want to share something that is oddly quirky. As I've mentioned before we have a blue and tan doberman pincher named Issac. He has this habit, with his food dish.



If any other animal even comes over and sniffs the food dish, he will eat almost exactly half of the dish of food. No matter the amount I put in it, it's almost exactly half. Then he will go take a nap for a few hours and if no one else has eaten the food he will come back for more in a few hours. The funniest part is, if he goes back to other half he left and an animal investigates he eats half of whats left. It's the oddest thing but our doberdoodle did the exact same thing, except she would only wait like 5 minutes and if no one else wanted it she would go finish the food. Does anyone else's dog do this? He only does it with his dry food, he gets dry food in the morning/day then wet food for dinner. _Also no one see's my dirty floor and box of jars.__....right?..__.right._

Nothing new going on here. The garden is almost done being planted....yes we are late. Everything but the corn, squash, pumpkins, and green beans is in though. I believe we need to amend our garden soil, the plants seem to be struggling this year. We did not put our barn compost on this year because the geese spent the entire fall, winter, and spring in the garden. We thought it should be well fertilized but the plants say no. Now that most everything is planted we will be side dressing our compost on the rows and maybe even resorting to garden plant miracle grow....which I've never used in my life. The compost is completely broken down into dirt and ready to use, we should have just put it on when we were tilling. Part of the choice is we need to screen the compost before we can use it and we were just to busy. The compost is 2 years worth of "barn dirt" from the first two years we were here and from multiple pig break outs, goat destruction, and sheep mischief many things ended up mixed into the manure/straw/hay we were cleaning out of the barn. Basically it left us a mess of a compost pile that we are now paying for. Thankfully all those issues got fixed and everyone stays where they should so the compost pile from last year and this year is clean, just to hot still.

That's about all.


----------



## Baymule

I have one dog that guards his food. If he doesn’t eat it all, he feels like he must protect it.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I have one dog that guards his food. If he doesn’t eat it all, he feels like he must protect it.


So the opposite lol. Issac literally tries to give it away. It's like he doesnt want to eat it all in case the smaller animals are hungry. He is so funny.


----------



## Bruce

His mother told him about kids starving in other parts of the world.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> His mother told him about kids starving in other parts of the world.




Had a nice weekend. Saturday I weeded the garden, put on liquid miracle grow and put up the pea trellis...finding out my pea row is longer then 15ft so ordered two more 15ft nets in case anything else needs it. My snow peas claim no trellis is needed but we shall see and I also am probly going to trellis my cucumbers. We just now got our corn, green beans and pumpkins in so a tad late but should make it. 

We are squarely in drought territory, in the past month we have gotten something like 1/2" of rain. Our normal rainfall is approx. 2.5" for the past month. Our garden soil is literally dust, hopefully things turn around in july as july and august are our wettest months with 3-3.5". Atm small square hay is selling for $5-8.50/bale. The grass is not growing and things are all turning brown. It is likely unless something changes we are only getting 1st cut of hay this year. We should have cut 3 weeks ago but we didn't have equipment and if we had done our field would be fried off brown now. Hay is gonna be over ripe but not much we could do about it. If we get really lucky we might get a second cut later in the year.

We bought a rake on thursday for $250, it needs a new hub which is $285 and we decided to buy new ag tires for it as well which were $200. We didn't even get the thing home and had a guy offer us $800 for it....if we didnt need the rake next week we probly would have made the deal. Sunday DH bought a small square baler for $50, stopped at our friends before he even brought it home and our friend offered him $500 on the spot. He was hanging out helping our friend troubleshoot a riding mower and offered us $1200 for the baler and our rake. As tempting as that was again we need them to make hay next week. 

We got super deals on them and only got the baler so cheap because the guy originally wanted DH to take it for scrap along with a bunch of other equipment. DH asked if it would just be ok to pay him the scrap price for some stuff...all ag equipment. To be clear this someone we have known for a couple years, not some random guy. So anyhow I spent about an hour on sunday oiling and greasing everything on the baler, we need 4 new grease zerks so DH said just buy a box of multi-sizes to have on hand. Between the tractor and all the equipment we will need them.

The rest of sunday was spent replacing the brake lines in the 1500 truck. DH had to slam on the brakes when an idiot cut in front of us then hit his brakes for a red light. Apparently the sudden braking was to much and one brake line blew, so the rake came home 2hrs without brakes. We just went ahead and replaced all the front brake lines and inputs, the entire kit was $80. Rear lines have not been done yet but they look to be in better shape.

All the livestock are doing good! Today DH is going to pick up 50 or so old hens. By old I mean 2yr old hens, the same deal we do every 2 yrs from our friends egg business, dollar a bird. We have had a broad breasted hen sitting on a nest in the barn. She choose it and the ducks laid eggs in it too. Last night she hatched out a duckling and is super happy about it but still sitting. She also kicked out 8 eggs that were failed eggs, we checked them all.

Our pyncheon bantam hen who is older then dirt at this point is sitting on a nest of over a dozen eggs atm as well. She is literally over 7yrs old and still hatches babies every year then takes excellent care of them. The nest is of course not all her eggs, she has eggs from our buff and our americana under her.

Two of my midget white hens have been sitting in one of our feed barrels for 2 months. We keep checking the eggs but they keep failing so I'm not sure what is going on there. We may end up buying an incubator and just sticking them in there.

The geese ended up hatching out 2 goslings but either refused to leave the nest to feed them or fought over them. Somehow they ended up dead and they are no longer sitting or laying.

The pigs got bred a week ago for first week of October babies/replacements. Should be warm enough to be safe and enough time to grow before the real cold comes. Really they should have been bred earlier but the sows had a very long recovery from their last litters. Perils of breeding past prime and very large sows, take more food and longer to recover. 

DH has agreed with our future plans we will not expand the pig operations. We simply do not have enough room. He wants to concentrate on calves/cows, including having some girls to AI. I want to get to around 50 ewes and 20 does. All that is plenty enough for 12 acres, we have no opportunity to expand our property to any connecting parcel. The little 2-3 acre strip I wanted to buy off the neighbor is not going to happen I'm pretty sure. Honestly right this second I dont have the money to buy it and I'm not refinancing to do it. If this wasn't the year of buy everything we have needed for years....I would have the money. Maybe next year but it's not looking likely.


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## Bruce

Do those offered deals a few times and you can buy all new equipment!



misfitmorgan said:


> My snow peas claim no trellis is needed


I have not seen those claims to be founded in reality. 



misfitmorgan said:


> when an idiot cut in front of us then hit his brakes for a red light.


Um, doesn't a red light mean stop?? Why WOULDN'T he stop for a red light? 
And presuming there was a yellow light preceding the red, isn't there fair warning that one SHOULD pan to stop?



misfitmorgan said:


> Our pyncheon bantam hen who is older then dirt at this point is sitting on a nest of over a dozen eggs atm as well. She is literally over 7yrs old


7 is older than dirt? Don't tell Persephone, she's 9. I have 4 six year olds, one of them is raising the 6 chicks I got from Meyer. Zorra used to do that duty but she died last fall at some months over 8 years of age.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Do those offered deals a few times and you can buy all new equipment!
> 
> 
> I have not seen those claims to be founded in reality.
> 
> 
> Um, doesn't a red light mean stop?? Why WOULDN'T he stop for a red light?
> And presuming there was a yellow light preceding the red, isn't there fair warning that one SHOULD pan to stop?
> 
> 
> 7 is older than dirt? Don't tell Persephone, she's 9. I have 4 six year olds, one of them is raising the 6 chicks I got from Meyer. Zorra used to do that duty but she died last fall at some months over 8 years of age.


Being able to wheel and deal up to new equipment is a nice idea but wouldnt work. Currently the next cheapest rake we can find is $950, cheapest baler is $1,900...literally the same model baler. So even if we took the $1200 offered we couldnt buy a rake and baler to replace them atm, prices are to high atm. We also have a lead on a haybine for $400 from another friend who doesnt wanna do hay anymore. Next best deal for a haybine is 3hrs away and $500, next closest is 20mins away and $1,500.

Yeah I am pretty skeptical about the lack of trellis.

Yes and No, basically it was a 4 lane road(2 each way), the guy was racing from farther back in the other lane to get ahead of us(which we didnt know, we just assumed he was trying to make the yellow in his own lane), then he swooped over into our lane and slammed on his brakes, making DH have to adjust at the last minute for an entire vehicle length in front of us suddenly. The guy was driving a big suv and couldnt even stop in time and ended up over the stopping line. It was just a real idiot thing for them to do and the sudden pressure was to much for the old brake lines. Up side is at least we have the new brake lines and it didnt blow them in a more serious situation.

Yes 7 is old for a barnyard chicken. She doesn't get feed, she doesnt use shelter except to hatch chicks once a year, half of the time we dont even see her for weeks at a time. Last summer we didnt see her for 2 months and figured something finally got her. She isnt living in a coop, barn or fence and being given feed and water. We do see her in the barn rafters if it is really bad in winter but 99% of the time she is just in the wild doing whatever lol. I'm hoping when we get the chicken fence up she will decide to go live with the other chickens but I doubt it. She only likes.....well, tolerates..... two of our other chickens and those are also the free roamers. One buff orf and a white leghorn.


----------



## farmerjan

There was a wild hen at the house that my ex and I bought many years ago.  Saw her a few times....and then after my chickens were moved there, and I started rotating letting out different pens... had several purebred show birds so had several roosters and had then penned in separate pens with 2-6 hens... well, one day in DEC, with snow on the ground, along comes the wild hen with a batch of chicks...... REALLY..... well, she obviously got with one or more of the roosters....
So I made sure she got feed everyday there for her and the chicks and after a couple weeks they were hopping pretty good... so I opened the one door, to an empty pen, and she went in and found the feed and called the chicks and they hopped up and she became a "full fledged chicken"  in the flock.... She was the BEST for setting on and hatching eggs, and became very content to be inside.... I had her set on many batches of eggs from the show birds.  Have no idea how old she was but we had her for at least 5 years and she just died one night.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> There was a wild hen at the house that my ex and I bought many years ago.  Saw her a few times....and then after my chickens were moved there, and I started rotating letting out different pens... had several purebred show birds so had several roosters and had then penned in separate pens with 2-6 hens... well, one day in DEC, with snow on the ground, along comes the wild hen with a batch of chicks...... REALLY..... well, she obviously got with one or more of the roosters....
> So I made sure she got feed everyday there for her and the chicks and after a couple weeks they were hopping pretty good... so I opened the one door, to an empty pen, and she went in and found the feed and called the chicks and they hopped up and she became a "full fledged chicken"  in the flock.... She was the BEST for setting on and hatching eggs, and became very content to be inside.... I had her set on many batches of eggs from the show birds.  Have no idea how old she was but we had her for at least 5 years and she just died one night.


She started off in the coop years ago when we got here but she decided shortly after that she was not a coop chicken. I don't think the same trick would work for her, she will not follow food and I never see her eatting any food I put out. I can give it a try though. She can fly really high so I dont think she will have a problem going over the fence if she chooses.

The turkey was off the nest last night with her one duckling. She is so happy to have it, she talks to it non-stop and has it separate from the other poultry. I put a waterer and a pile of feed down by her last night and the duckling got its fill as did she, so good sign. I need to make her a pen with chicken wire tonight so nothing attacks the duckling, the geese seemed interested but she did a good job keeping everything away. 

After work today DH is picking up an angus heifer calf....for free!! That deal we have with the local guy for calves he doesnt wanna deal with....in action. The calf is 5 days old and he has been bottle feeding it hoping mom would get her life in order but she hasnt. The mom is going to auction and we get the calf. So exciting, he has some very good looking angus but I guess that is what you get when you pay $11,000 for the bull.   Assuming all goes well we will be keeping her and getting her AI'ed when she is old enough.

DH and I are both taking monday off to take our 5 lambs to the auction we should make between $1,000-$1750 depending on their weights and whose there buying. Anything over the $500-700 we would make locally we are happy with. We are unsure if we are taking our two older wethers or not, I want to but DH doesnt. He wants them in the freezer, I told him we still dont have room and I'm happy to get an extra $400-700 for those 2 that were our culls last year. I would like to keep our lambs longer and get more weight on them but the 7 lambs and 2 goat kids are currently eating 25lbs of grain a day as of this past week so the expense will quickly outweigh the gain.

Next year the creep feeder will be set up earlier, this year they didnt start on the creep until 8-10 weeks old which is not ideal. Before then they got grain with the ewes of course but thats not the same as 24/7 creep.

The garden looked ok last night but at 6am the temp said 36F....so cold. Between the cold swing the past 2 weeks and lack of rain, it is a trying year for gardens and crops alike.


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## Baymule

An Angus heifer calf! How wonderful for you! $11,000 for the Bull? I’m guessing he is registered and of some highly desired bloodline. Could the heifer be registered?

Thats cute about the turkey and the duckling. She’s gonna freak out when the duck takes to water!

How much do lambs go for at auction? I sure would like to get those kind of prices. You will have to give us a detailed report. Oh, a link to the auction report too!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> An Angus heifer calf! How wonderful for you! $11,000 for the Bull? I’m guessing he is registered and of some highly desired bloodline. Could the heifer be registered?
> 
> Thats cute about the turkey and the duckling. She’s gonna freak out when the duck takes to water!
> 
> How much do lambs go for at auction? I sure would like to get those kind of prices. You will have to give us a detailed report. Oh, a link to the auction report too!


Yes the guys entire herd is registered and has been for decades now. The heifer could probly be registered however I think it is asking a bit much to get the heifer calf for free and also ask for papers   He normally sells his heifer calves 300-500lbs starting at $650. This calf is already about 100lbs and he has $20 of replacer into her. I dunno I would feel awkward asking for papers for a free calf, registered or non-registered for the market we will be looking at won't make much difference.

I know she is gonna be so confused....like omg my baby is going to drown. The first thing the duck did was stand in the waterer which she seemed fine with. The duckling looks like a mule duck, so we shall see.

The one we are taking them to is this one. The prices keep going up and down but since we are not there to see what exactly they are selling it's hard to know.
http://www.davidclarkauction.com/images/6-7-21 mkt report.pdf
http://www.davidclarkauction.com/images/061421 mkt report.pdf
http://www.davidclarkauction.com/images/6-21-21 mkt report.pdf
The lowest reported price is at or above what we would get locally, so not a horrible gamble. This is the other option we had and where our buck got sold.
http://www.northernmichiganlivestock.com/market-report.html
I think the price is heavily going to depend on weight, they want them 100lbs or real close for the non-ethnic market and 60-70lbs for the ethnic market. They are all 4 months old but not getting them on creep early enough and ewes getting so thin/lower milk production really slowed them down. I'm betting none of them break 70lbs at sale and we are selling in between ethnic holidays. The other option is keep them another month to hit the market for Eid Al-Adha which lambs over 60lbs are preferred for....we would likely get a better price. Problem is that is also another $200 in grain with no sure guarantee on a higher price.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> we just assumed he was trying to make the yellow in his own lane), then he swooped over into our lane and slammed on his brakes, making DH have to adjust at the last minute for an entire vehicle length in front of us suddenly.


 
There are SO many fools out on the road!


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## Baymule

I hope y’all get good prices for your lambs. You are right to sell now, no sense in putting more money in them.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I hope y’all get good prices for your lambs. You are right to sell now, no sense in putting more money in them.


That's sort of what we figured. As tempting as it to think just a little longer and you can sell for more, thats a slippery slope we have fallen down a few times. If we want to go commercial we have to have the date set and follow it even if prices might change for the better. The loose plan for the commercial flock is selling at 4-5 months or 105lbs. The 5 lbs is because they usually loose weight in shipping. We also want to mix in polypay for off-season breeding and multiple births. In a few years if things work out we will add in hair sheep, as ultimately we want to have 100% hair sheep but not sure the commercial market here.

The new heifer calf is being delivered this evening, DH tried to pick her up last night but the owner was playing euchre and didnt want to quit to go home and load the calf. 

The chicken pickup got delayed a day so DH brought the new chickens home last night. Lots of them but honestly they look good for older chickens raised in a smaller yard. Biggest problem for us is....will our planned chicken fence/yard be big enough with the new additions. The planned yard is suppose to be something close to 40ftx40ft for the yard which supposedly handles 160 chickens but the yard they had at their old place is 36x20 which should also have been plenty but it was nothing but bare dirt...which we dont want! The chicken yard is in the orchard....we want grass there. 

We have approximately 75 chickens meaning our new 10x12 shed/chicken coop is a bit small. So going the have to do something a bit creative or give the silkies a separate coop/yard. Not sure what to do as I know we will lose some of the new birds but while they are here they need housing. ATM all the chickens are closed in the 2-story for a week until the new ones accept it and the pecking order is figured out. I believe we are going to build eggboxes on the outside of the coop which will help some with coop space as the inside will only be roosts, food is also going outside under a little shelter until winter. We shall see how things work out.

We are cutting our hay next week which works out well since DH and I have the 5th off paid so we can take a trailer load of hay to the auction. The best year from that field was 1200+ bales in a single cut....this year should be lower. We need just under 500 bales for fall/winter/spring...to be safe. So we plan to sell 400-500 bales, we can do more later if we get a second cut. Average current price we would make around $2,600 which will help cover hay making costs, the new rake tires and the wheel hub, as well as any other parts anything else needs, plus twine, gas, broken teeth/shear pins, and cost of buying and hauling equipment. IF it works that means we will be starting on a clear slate for next hay season for costs.

We finally got rain yesterday, in total we got 0.2", the total since june 1st is 0.9". We need more, forecasting 0.89" thursday and friday which will get us a lot closer to the 2.5" normal. We shall see cause they forecasted 0.25" monday, 0.75" thursday, 1.10" friday, 0.30 next Monday and 0.47" tuesday.....ended up nothing this past monday and 0.20" yesterday, rain canceled monday and tuesday.


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## misfitmorgan

Our new Angus heifer calf arrived last night.









She is gorgeous! She is a little wild thing and it is my job to tame her down as well as halter break and lead break her. She is 8 days old and as big as the diary bull calves who are almost a month old. She is also already eating hay and bottle broke. When the time comes, she will be AI'ed and I can't wait.


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## Baymule

She is gorgeous! Future calves coming! Beautiful calf, she will make a lovely cow for you. What is her name?


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> She is gorgeous! Future calves coming! Beautiful calf, she will make a lovely cow for you. What is her name?


She came pre-named Peanut. I have no idea why, but I don't think DH wants to change it. I would rather call her something like violet lol.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> I would rather call her something like violet lol.


Only if she turns purple!


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Only if she turns purple!


I just ment something more feminine


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## misfitmorgan

Hopefully this weekend all the new calves will start halter/lead training. I want to easily be able to move them, we missed the boat on that with the older two and being over 500lbs each I'm not trying to teach them now.

We are thinking we are going to put up an electric fence pasture in the back clearing to put the cows/calves on for this year until we can get our other pastures up. There is some forage stock piled there but the clearing is only 1/2 acre so we dont think it will last long but it is fresh ground, bigger then the dry lot they are sharing with the sheep and already cleared. The entire dry lot is a little less then 1/8 acre and currently has a strip split off of it for the lambs. Until this year it hasnt been a problem because they were only on it when it is frozen/winter.

The goats almost have their entire pasture cleared including brush knocked down and tops eaten. By comparison the last pictures I posted look lush. You can see all the way thru to the other fence line no matter where you stand.

So as soon as hay is done.....pasture 2 is getting put up so the sheep can move. Then as soon as that is done pasture 3 goes up for the sheep to move to and goats will go in pasture 2. By the time they finish with those pastures, pasture 1 should be good to graze again. Aka we should have time to clear out everything the goats knocked down and plant it. The pasture is only going to get about 45-60 days to grow before stock but you have to start some place.


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## Baymule

It takes time and work to establish a good pasture. You are right, you gotta start somewhere. Take pictures and start a pasture thread. Then it’s not lost in hundreds of pages of journal. It will be easier to go back to see where you started. When I start feeling like I’m NEVER going to have good pasture, I just go to my pasture thread and start at post #1. It sure makes me feel better!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> It takes time and work to establish a good pasture. You are right, you gotta start somewhere. Take pictures and start a pasture thread. Then it’s not lost in hundreds of pages of journal. It will be easier to go back to see where you started. When I start feeling like I’m NEVER going to have good pasture, I just go to my pasture thread and start at post #1. It sure makes me feel better!


Thats a good idea Bay, thank you!


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## Baymule

I walked the Bahia I planted last spring, it’s in its second year now. Last year I very lightly let the horses graze it several times. It was bush hogged a week ago and is growing well. I can go to my pasture thread, look at it after we had it forestry mulched, raked up, bare dirt, and see where it is now. If we get some rain, I’ll let the horses graze it. It’s dry and with the loose sand, horse hooves will dig holes.


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## misfitmorgan

We are finally getting some consistent rain which is very nice and needed badly. You have made huge progress on your pastures Bay and it shows a ton. We are still at the brush and bare dirt stage, but will get there.

Ordered some new solar lights and I am impressed. They are super bright and were not horribly expensive. They are so useful for sticking in places you dont have electric ran. Our last ones which were not made as well last for 3yrs. They were just on and off by motion. The new ones have 3 settings, full bright from motion, full bright from motion and dim otherwise, or dim from motion. We picked the middle setting which is great for seeing the livestock at night, only the only real issue is if they are placed to close to the ground the livestock make them stay on bright most of the time, putting them up 8-9 ft off the ground seems to fix it but still let it go bright when we walk by.


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## Mini Horses

Share a link?  I've got two places I'd love to have those!   Always better when you have a review from one who knows what's needed.


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## misfitmorgan

Mini Horses said:


> Share a link?  I've got two places I'd love to have those!   Always better when you have a review from one who knows what's needed.



Here you go, they come in either a 2 pack or a 4 pack.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08CDJ3FQZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also they are bigger then you think they will be


----------



## misfitmorgan

Been busy this week.

Last saturday I went and picked 21lbs of strawberries. Sunday I canned them and they came out very good. We have been getting lots of rain which has made everything vibrant green again. We have been working on the new hay equipment we got and hope to be doing hay starting today. We shall see how things go. The garden is looking good and we should be able to start harvesting some things soon.

Yesterday morning we went out to bottle feed the calves before work and heard running water. Never good but we do have 2 auto-waterers....it wasnt those. The water line in our 2-story broke, as in the previous owner thought it was a great idea to use a hose clamps instead of pex rings and apparently those only work for so long. Luckily we own pex pliers so could put an actual ring on it. 

We also finally got our digital water meter and sprinklers set up for the garden...the day before all the rain showed up.   We have not used them yet. At least we have them, as the only forecasted day for rain in the month of july is the 17th.

Sadly we still dont have the entire garden planted and we are running out of time. So long as we get everything that is left planted this weekend we will be ok. We have corn, green beans, squash and pumpkin left to plant. We do already have buttercup squash and zucchini growing thankfully. The corn is short season only being 64 days so should not be a problem, the squash and pumpkins are up to 120 days so that will be close and likely need low tunnels put over them for the last month.


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## Baymule

Good thing you had reason to go to the barn yesterday morning. Otherwise you’d have gone to work and water would have run all day.!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Good thing you had reason to go to the barn yesterday morning. Otherwise you’d have gone to work and water would have run all day.!


No kidding....having bottle calves saved us, our chickens and feed is kept in there.


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## misfitmorgan

We start hay this weekend. We have our normal 27 acre field and last night got offered a 30acre field for free. Now where to store it all...

We have tried selling out of the field but people are flaky on showing up for those deals and then when they do they are shocked that they have to load it....thats why you get the discount duh. We are happy to take a couple loads to the auction but even on our biggest road speed trailer we can only fit like 125 bales. We shall see how things go I mean we may cut 15 acres and have it all get washed.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> as in the previous owner thought it was a great idea to use a hose clamps instead of pex rings






misfitmorgan said:


> last night got offered a 30acre field for free


You must have found the haying season four leaf clover!!! Great deals on machinery and 30 acres of free hay 



misfitmorgan said:


> shocked that they have to load it


They don't understand that buying out of the field means some work on their part? You are going to sell it cheaper because you get to put it in their trailer instead of yours?? Sheesh.


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## Baymule

In the field is well understood here. I’ve bought in the field before. I’ve taken young, strong help and a trailer and gone by myself with a pickup truck.

People can be so stupid.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> You must have found the haying season four leaf clover!!! Great deals on machinery and 30 acres of free hay
> 
> 
> They don't understand that buying out of the field means some work on their part? You are going to sell it cheaper because you get to put it in their trailer instead of yours?? Sheesh.


I have no idea what is going on this year with hay fields. We got offered another 80 acres on shares and had to say no. It's just to much hay for the two of us to handle alone since it would be all square bales. I can not hand load, then hand unload and stack 140 acres of square bales. It would kill us not to mention we would have no where to put it and not enough time to sell it around the 9-5.

We have a ton of people who "moved to the country" who want to show us hicks how to farm the "proper" way. Meanwhile they know nothing about farming besides what they have seen on movies, tv shows and social media. I guess they just thought we were to stupid to realize we were selling out hay cheap, I dunno. 9 out of 10 just think they can bring their trailer and we are going to load it for them from our already loaded trailer sitting in the field. We had one set of people who we told they had to load their own trailer that is why it is cheaper, they literally DROVE over to out loaded trailer and started pulling hay off.....umm no. The 3 of them managed to load 30 bales from the field before saying they could not do anymore. We ended up delivering and stacking 150 bales for them at a much higher price then the field hay. It was ridiculously hilarious.



Baymule said:


> In the field is well understood here. I’ve bought in the field before. I’ve taken young, strong help and a trailer and gone by myself with a pickup truck.
> 
> People can be so stupid.


Would be so amazing if they understood it here!! Had a lady call for "hay out of the field" and got mad because she couldnt pick it up 4 days later.....you know after it was taken off the field and stacked in our barn, for the same low price. That one actually called us scammers


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## Bruce

I'm sure she would not appreciate the quality of the hay if she picked it up from the field 4 days later after it got rain soaked


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## misfitmorgan

We had a very busy but not so productive weekend.

We got the final things done on the haybine and hay rake. Got our friends tractor running/tune-up so we could use it with the haybine we got running....same friend owns them both. The deal was we got the tractor running and fluids changed etc we could use it, we buy a tire and bearing for the haybine and install them and we could use it. So we agreed and thats what we did.

By the time all the running around was done and everything was running and ready we didnt get to cut until Saturday evening. Went back Sunday around noon with our new rake which we got the hub installed on, and the 2 missing teeth, all greased etc and our jubilee tractor.

We hoped it would be ready to rake, not a chance. Humidity was 78% all day sunday, so even though it was sunny and we had a good breeze it just was not drying. The field is super thick because the lack of rain means the grass grew short and thick.  Monday morning we checked on it as soon as the dew was off....still looked like we had just cut everything that wasn't on the very surface. We left and loaded our lambs for the auction.

Then the rain came.....luckily we only had 6 rows on the outside cut to open the field. So we lost about 400 bales as it got washed really really good, like over an inch of rain. I checked the weather everyday for the week before we cut, no rain at all forecasted. Then satuday night, 46% chance of 0.15" of rain on monday NIGHT.  We actually got that over an inch of rain between 1pm and 7pm, half an inch around 1pm in 20 minutes and the rest between 6-7pm. Those came along with thunder, lightening and wind up to 60mph.

Compared to others we didnt lose much. Many other farmers we know got wiped out by the storm. The three worst we know of had 45 acres completely washed, another guy had 15 acres washed, and DH ex-boss had 20 acres washed. No one expected the humidity or the freak storm. We now also have rain called for today, tomorrow, and saturday so I doubt we will be cutting anything until next week at best.

In other news we got the lambs to the auction...with some struggle. We tried to take them last monday and had the front left tire delanminate....not far outside of the town by us. Went home and we changed the tire. Looked over all the other tires they all looked fine. Head out yesterday, all seems good. We got an hour and a half from our house and felt some not right vibration. The right front tire broke a belt somehow  We ended up calling around and got a used tire slapped on for $40. Problem was firstly most places were closed for the holiday, and secondly the lambs were in the back of the truck inside the camper top. It was 91F by the time this happened and air only moves thru the cab when we are moving. The shop we found was amazing, as soon as we got there they stuck us in a bay, jacked up the truck and had the tire swapped out ready for us to leave in 10 minutes. I mean we didnt even get out of the truck.  I was never so happy we left 4hrs early for something in my life, we made it to the auction with 45mins to spare. Our lambs did well, we got $2.35/lb which was the second highest at the auction. A single lamb that was exactly 100lbs got $2.40/lb.

I think we would have done better if they had separated ours. They sold them as an entire group which means the mutt lambs pulled down the average weight to 82lbs. I'm mostly annoyed about it because we asked them if they would split the group into light and heavy and they said yes...they normally do. No idea what happened there but we are overall happy with the price we got for this time of year.

Now since I have no self control when a jersey heifer calf came thru the ring....we bought it. She was $24 and a bottle calf. Supposedly she was a single calf just born later then the farmer wanted and she got colostrum and was vaccinated. So assuming that is true she will be AI'ed with our angus heifer calf in 18 months and become our milk cow. If that is not true or she doesnt take the AI she will just be kept as a companion for our angus heifer calf. It actually works out well because otherwise our angus heifer calf would have been alone when the steers went to market/slaughter. So we now have 4 bottle calves, shortly here the Holstein bottle boys will be separated and weaned off of bottles as they are already 6 weeks old and eating well.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I figured out the first calves we got are now 14 months old. Time flies I had no idea they were so old already. If we want them to make a 18 month butcher date we are going to have to get them away from the sheep so they can be grained properly. We were expecting them to weigh between 850-950 lbs at 18 months and atm they look someplace around 600-650lbs.

Need more time in the day...like everyone else does!!! I dont know when we are going to have time to get up electric fence for the cows to be moved.


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## Baymule

That’s a shame on getting your hay washed. Even more of a shame for the people who lost everything.

That’s a great price for your lambs! You had quite the adventure in getting them there.


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## Bruce

What Bay said plus: 
I think you got a good deal on the tractor and haybine "rental".


----------



## farmerjan

misfitmorgan said:


> I have no idea what is going on this year with hay fields. We got offered another 80 acres on shares and had to say no. It's just to much hay for the two of us to handle alone since it would be all square bales. I can not hand load, then hand unload and stack 140 acres of square bales. It would kill us not to mention we would have no where to put it and not enough time to sell it around the 9-5.
> 
> We have a ton of people who "moved to the country" who want to show us hicks how to farm the "proper" way. Meanwhile they know nothing about farming besides what they have seen on movies, tv shows and social media. I guess they just thought we were to stupid to realize we were selling out hay cheap, I dunno. 9 out of 10 just think they can bring their trailer and we are going to load it for them from our already loaded trailer sitting in the field. We had one set of people who we told they had to load their own trailer that is why it is cheaper, they literally DROVE over to out loaded trailer and started pulling hay off.....umm no. The 3 of them managed to load 30 bales from the field before saying they could not do anymore. We ended up delivering and stacking 150 bales for them at a much higher price then the field hay. It was ridiculously hilarious.
> 
> 
> Would be so amazing if they understood it here!! Had a lady call for "hay out of the field" and got mad because she couldnt pick it up 4 days later.....you know after it was taken off the field and stacked in our barn, for the same low price. That one actually called us scammers


Idiot cidiots..   ...and honestly, if they were horse people, I am not surprised.....most of them want something cheap and then you do the work ....when you are expecting them to do the work.... that is why it is cheaper.....
Yep, been there done that @misfitmorgan .... time and again... and now we just don't.....
Another reason for us to have the round baler... besides the time savings of feeding all the cows....  we can and have taken advantage of hay that is offered.... and at least round baled, we lose little on the outside... but it is just time and costs to make it....


----------



## farmerjan

One thing to think about the lambs.... not being separated.... although it brought down the average weight of the lambs... it might have been to your advantage if the "mutt lambs" were lighter and maybe not as nice as the others?  I am not criticizing them... just that you for paid for the total weight you sold... if they had been split, you might have gotten a few cents more for the "heavy lambs"  and maybe less for the lighter ones... so it might have been a better deal this way since this is not the "hot lamb market timing".... 
And maybe not.  That is about what they have been bringing here so I think you did okay....

Sorry your hay got wet.... been there done that more than once over they years....
Is there any market for mulch hay?????Even a couple dollars a bale will get most of your out of pocket costs paid for and get it out of your way.... you might try some landscapers.....or guys withy heavy equipment  that do grading on different building projects....Some "have to have straw" ,  but many will use hay as a cover to prevent erosion... ditching and such hay works good too.... full bales in ditches with a stake through them to hold in place....
Just some suggestions as with your limited space, you don't want to store that inside if you don't have to....

If you are having trouble getting it dried with the humidity... as we often do.... a hay tedder is an absolute necessity.... with real humid weather we have been known to tedd more than once if we are pushing to get it dried to get it baled... I know where you are coming from.   Our tedder is priceless....especially when we sq bale... to get it as dry as possible so there is no heating etc...when we stack it in the barns or on the wagons to store....

We got a 15% chance downpour a couple weeks ago too... basically out of no where and very localized.... comes with the territory as you well know.  

On your calves... if they are the holsteins, you are going to have to really feed them to get enough "meat" on them because they are famous for growing bone and frame first....I don't want you to be disappointed by the ratio of useable meat if they are not "finished",; because holsteins finish at 12-1400 lbs ..... beef animals will finish at lighter weights, and like @Baymule 's steer... he did good for them, but he got fed real good to get the growth to marble.  The dairy breeds just grow more before they put on "meat/muscle" ....
I am trying to be helpful... not critical....

I take it the other calves you got that had gotten sick are past  the scours and all and doing good?  Hope so....
Congrats on the jersey heifer calf.... they are just so cute....hope she is a "good one" and able to breed....


----------



## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> One thing to think about the lambs.... not being separated.... although it brought down the average weight of the lambs... it might have been to your advantage if the "mutt lambs" were lighter and maybe not as nice as the others?  I am not criticizing them... just that you for paid for the total weight you sold... if they had been split, you might have gotten a few cents more for the "heavy lambs"  and maybe less for the lighter ones... so it might have been a better deal this way since this is not the "hot lamb market timing"....
> And maybe not.  That is about what they have been bringing here so I think you did okay....
> 
> Sorry your hay got wet.... been there done that more than once over they years....
> Is there any market for mulch hay?????Even a couple dollars a bale will get most of your out of pocket costs paid for and get it out of your way.... you might try some landscapers.....or guys withy heavy equipment  that do grading on different building projects....Some "have to have straw" ,  but many will use hay as a cover to prevent erosion... ditching and such hay works good too.... full bales in ditches with a stake through them to hold in place....
> Just some suggestions as with your limited space, you don't want to store that inside if you don't have to....
> 
> If you are having trouble getting it dried with the humidity... as we often do.... a hay tedder is an absolute necessity.... with real humid weather we have been known to tedd more than once if we are pushing to get it dried to get it baled... I know where you are coming from.   Our tedder is priceless....especially when we sq bale... to get it as dry as possible so there is no heating etc...when we stack it in the barns or on the wagons to store....
> 
> We got a 15% chance downpour a couple weeks ago too... basically out of no where and very localized.... comes with the territory as you well know.
> 
> On your calves... if they are the holsteins, you are going to have to really feed them to get enough "meat" on them because they are famous for growing bone and frame first....I don't want you to be disappointed by the ratio of useable meat if they are not "finished",; because holsteins finish at 12-1400 lbs ..... beef animals will finish at lighter weights, and like @Baymule 's steer... he did good for them, but he got fed real good to get the growth to marble.  The dairy breeds just grow more before they put on "meat/muscle" ....
> I am trying to be helpful... not critical....
> 
> I take it the other calves you got that had gotten sick are past  the scours and all and doing good?  Hope so....
> Congrats on the jersey heifer calf.... they are just so cute....hope she is a "good one" and able to breed....


Very true on the lambs! 

We waited and waite and waited for that washed hay to dry. We raked it twice and finally on Sunday evening it was dry enough to bale.  So we started baling then found out our one roll of twine had a wet spot in the middle of it and since it was sisal it kept breaking. Our own fault for apparently picking a bad place to keep it where it somehow got leaked on. So monday after work we bought new twine and baled, moisture meter read out 14% so not at all bad for hay that got 3" of rain on it. The craziest part is when we raked it after sitting in the field for a week....everything under the top was still green like it had just been cut a few hours earlier. I guess we can thank the humidity and rain for that. We finally got everything baled and the trailer there at 9pm. We loaded everything we could on the truck and trailer, about 150 bales. 

Then we headed home.....about 1.2 mile into the trip DHs floor switch broke which means he lost his headlight completely on the truck. Luckily I had our "new" truck there as well so he followed me home in the dark with our 4-ways on at 40mph. Luckily our hay field is only 14.5 miles from our house. Then all day yesterday it rained on the bales we left in the field....we knew it would, it was forecasted but we didnt have much of a choice. Meanwhile all the animals love the hay we brought home, go figure. We were down to 2 days of hay left so they are eating the rained on brought home hay. One of our friends is going to take the field bales to a friend of his with cows so they can eat it up quick before it gets moldy/dusty. We will be cutting again on Friday so long as the weather stays clear, atm it says we are clear until the 22nd. Thunderstorm/rain today and tomorrow.

Now for our new hay equipment....it all worked great! The rake runs like a dream, never been bent thankfully, the baler took about 30 bales to scrub the insides before she ran real smooth but she is a bale making beast happy to be working again. The springs on the front dogs where the PTO connects to the flywheel(can't recall the name atm) are picky because they are worn out so you have to mess with it until it locks in but then it stays. We will be replacing them as soon as we are done baling this field, as well as investigating a bit of a wheel wobble you only see when pulling it down the road, and sharpening the bale knife. Honestly we couldnt ask for any better of a performance from a $50 baler that just cost us grease and WD-40 so far.

The calves are all doing well and getting along fine. Peanut is becoming more and more friendly, Ginny is already very friendly and interested in people. I mean the fact that we are the milk suppliers I am sure has nothing to do with it. Ginny also seems to want to be friends with Issac which is cute.

DH bought and brought home a new Berkshire Sow to breed to our hereford boar.....im not to pleased personally but whatever I guess. He only got her because she is about 450lbs and was $100, from a guy we know who breeds good clean stock. So I guess his plan is to hold back a gilt from each of the 3 girls to replace them and then buy a new hereford boar. Everyone else goes down the road to the auction/ or wherever, except the new berk sow she will be getting made into whole hog sausage. We have 3lbs of breakfast sausage left and about 12 lbs of italian sausage left from our last pig. We are running out of cuts of pork as well but not much can be done about that atm.

We are making progress on finishing my sisters house so she can list it for sale. It is literally taking forever! Got countertops on and sink installed last night. So finish up the details on that then tile the backsplash, remove one vanity in a bathroom, paint a bathroom, install bathroom flooring, a new vanity, and a new toilet, finish switching out the outlets and light switches, put one more coat of white paint on the doors then re-install the doorknobs. That should be it! But I am trying really hard to get it all done before saturday/sunday when I will need to rake hay and then help load the trailer and truck several times.









BTW the laminate countertop you buy off the shelf from Home Depot.....dont do it. It looks great as far as laminate goes honestly but the pre-made stuff is a ridiculous pain to install. If you want to do laminate order it measured and pre-made so the build ups are all where they need to be, the off the shelf ones come with tiny blocks to use to build it up and it is just stupid. Also the corner seams dont line up perfectly and what a pain it is. We also had to use scrap counter top to make more build up blocks so the sink clips have something to hook onto. Also do not get a 30" square cornered sink for a 33" cabinet.....it says it fits and technically yes it does if you cut the cabinet supports and can fit your hand in a 1.5" gap to tighten the sink clamps. In the end it looks nice enough but it took 10hrs of work and the end caps are not installed yet. Typically laminate install is suppose to be 30-60 minutes.


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## Baymule

Busy! Busy! Busy! Kitchen is looking great!


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## misfitmorgan

Only time I am not busy is when I am at work   

Thats why you mostly only see me on here mon-fri 7am-3.30pm.


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> Now for our new hay equipment....it all worked great!


----------



## misfitmorgan

We got half of the field baled and put away now. Probly sitting at 400+ bales after losing the heads.

A friend of ours stopped by last night and put in an order for 700 bales....  I don't want to do any more square bales. DH told him yes we would do it. So we are discussing having the rest of that field round baled then doing squares on the other 30. Problem is we are running out of time and the weather is not cooperating. Rained thursday, rained tuesday we got our hay off between that gap, then it rained today, suppose to rain tomorrow, and saturday then possible rain tuesday next week.

We ended up buying a parts baler that matches our and swap the feed arms onto our machines, then went and bought bran new clutch discs for $140....painful. The wheel on the haybine needs a new bearing which we have not even looked at yet. DH hit a big rut in the field and bend a guard bar on the rake. So fix haybine wheel, fix rake, and buy more twine before we can do more hay atm. 

DH called me a couple of hours ago to tell me he just got word at work that they are going from doing 4 day 40 to 12hrs a day 5 days a week, he is very not thrilled as that is going to make it extremely hard to get the hay or anything else done.

We know have a duty phone at my job, we are on a rotating schedule everyone takes it for 1 full week 24/7 every 3 months. So only 4 times a year but not really something I needed added to my plate. My first week to take it is 8/23-8/30.

Ivy's red daughter had boy girl twin kids 2 days ago and they seem to be doing well. She is being a good mom to them even though they seem very small. No spots either but a bit of white. We will be keeping the girls to put in with the new herd buck which includes Jupiter. Atm the new herd split is going to be ivy's white daughters female kid, ivy's red daughter female kid, phoebe's daughter, and Jupiter along with any other female kids that are born. Ivy looks very prego btw, so we are expecting at least one more set of twins.

Two days ago I went out and fed the calves, everyone looked pretty good though peanut seems slightly depressed. Ate her bottle with vigor though, that evening DH went out to bottle feed and peanut was dead. We have absolutely no idea why. Ginny doesnt seem to be doing so great, this morning she had scours and didnt want her bottle. When I get off work I will be going to buy some electrolytes and she will get probios, electrolytes and a raw eggs to stop things up. We are also likely going to be doing a round of Pen G as she sounds very wet and it has been very wet and humid here as well she she aspirates her milk pretty regularly. Hopefully Ginny gets over whatever is getting her down. The current plan is to buy a heifer calf if/when Ginny gets older to be her buddy.

We got a call to schedule our TB testing so we will be doing that soon.

We found a young man named Hunter who has agreed to be our farmhand/labor. He has a decent attitude, works well and sounds happy to do any of the things we have mentioned we need done. Thankfully we have that at least as DH is doing that 60hrs a week now.

The garden is doing pretty well, I picked a load of snow peas last night and we have gotten 1 zucchini and a purple bell pepper. My sungold tomatoes in my herb garden are ready to harvest a few and pretty much all of my herbs are ready to start drying or freezing some for winter. Bout the only things I saw not ready yet were sage and cilantro. The cilantro is really struggling this year the weather is so crazy. Like today it is 58F, monday it was 87F and I just dont think that plants are sure what to do. My strawberries are growing nicely, they will spend the winter in the garage and then get planted in a bed next spring....I hope.

I think you guys are all caught up now.


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## Baymule

That’s a lot of square bales to make when working those many hours. Does that include y’all delivering and putting them in his barn?


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## farmerjan

I feel for you with the "hay woes".... we go through stuff like that every year.  And we have the option of round baling, most of ours.  It is just a real crap shoot most years to get it made...
And we have at least 2-3,000 in equipment repairs this year;  and we have not even started our sq baling.... and we will do some even if it is short as we have contracts also.... people we have been supplying hay to for years....
Used to do it like you with both of us working all kinds of hours... it is hard if not impossible to get things done... and there are things that get "a lick and a promise"  and half a$$ed done, when you have to assign priorities.... It really is hard.  Now at least I am off more days than not.....and off during the day when I can get things ready for son to do after he gets off work... but when I was testing AND waitressing... it was really really hard.... 

We have 2 old sq balers for parts that will work for our good one.  We have 3 round balers now.... AND a parts one that we have been cannibalizing for alot of parts the last 2 years. We cannot afford to buy a new round baler and then go and tear it up on some rocks/ledge.  DS put in over 8 hours the other night to repair the one round baler because it is the only one that net wraps.... and we had to do the one place in net wrap...for the place we do custom and we had some sold that wanted the 4x5 net wrapped rolls..... You buy the extra when you can find one at a sale, even when you can't really afford it, because you KNOW that a couple of parts will be worth the cost...but if we didn't have extras, we would have had hay get wet because of it needing to get baled NOW..... The strippers alone that are between the pickup tines are like 40 each... there are 20 or so in the baler.... so a 2,000 used baler has more than 1,000 just in the tines and strippers.... not counting the other parts of the pickup.  You know all about that.  The sq balers are also dealing with knotters and things that cost... and you really have to get them timed right in order for it to tie.  
We had a bale of baler twine get a wet spot just like you,,,, and it kept breaking.... and the twine is getting more and more expensive... I get it.....

Glad that the kids are doing okay.  I am so sorry that you lost a calf.  It is really hard to raise bottle calves anymore.  They don't seem to have the resistance that they used to have.... and sometimes it doesn't take much to just throw them off kilter.  The heat here has been tough on our cattle.  I really am glad to not be raising calves on bottles much anymore.... nurse cows are a pain, but they are a much better option for me.... and we are lucky to get calves directly off a farm that I KNOW how they start the calves off... and their "bugs" and ours are compatible.  By the time you treat and fool with bottle calves, it turns out to almost always be better to put out more money up front for weaned calves.  Been there, done that many many years...

Hope the weather will work better for you and you can get the hay made, dry,  soon....


----------



## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That’s a lot of square bales to make when working those many hours. Does that include y’all delivering and putting them in his barn?


No! His hired guy is also our new hired guy, so hired guy for us will help load our wagons, then take them to friends house and unload then bring back wagons. So we only have to load in the field, the rest is out of the friends pocket/time.



farmerjan said:


> I feel for you with the "hay woes".... we go through stuff like that every year.  And we have the option of round baling, most of ours.  It is just a real crap shoot most years to get it made...
> And we have at least 2-3,000 in equipment repairs this year;  and we have not even started our sq baling.... and we will do some even if it is short as we have contracts also.... people we have been supplying hay to for years....
> Used to do it like you with both of us working all kinds of hours... it is hard if not impossible to get things done... and there are things that get "a lick and a promise"  and half a$$ed done, when you have to assign priorities.... It really is hard.  Now at least I am off more days than not.....and off during the day when I can get things ready for son to do after he gets off work... but when I was testing AND waitressing... it was really really hard....
> 
> We have 2 old sq balers for parts that will work for our good one.  We have 3 round balers now.... AND a parts one that we have been cannibalizing for alot of parts the last 2 years. We cannot afford to buy a new round baler and then go and tear it up on some rocks/ledge.  DS put in over 8 hours the other night to repair the one round baler because it is the only one that net wraps.... and we had to do the one place in net wrap...for the place we do custom and we had some sold that wanted the 4x5 net wrapped rolls..... You buy the extra when you can find one at a sale, even when you can't really afford it, because you KNOW that a couple of parts will be worth the cost...but if we didn't have extras, we would have had hay get wet because of it needing to get baled NOW..... The strippers alone that are between the pickup tines are like 40 each... there are 20 or so in the baler.... so a 2,000 used baler has more than 1,000 just in the tines and strippers.... not counting the other parts of the pickup.  You know all about that.  The sq balers are also dealing with knotters and things that cost... and you really have to get them timed right in order for it to tie.
> We had a bale of baler twine get a wet spot just like you,,,, and it kept breaking.... and the twine is getting more and more expensive... I get it.....
> 
> Glad that the kids are doing okay.  I am so sorry that you lost a calf.  It is really hard to raise bottle calves anymore.  They don't seem to have the resistance that they used to have.... and sometimes it doesn't take much to just throw them off kilter.  The heat here has been tough on our cattle.  I really am glad to not be raising calves on bottles much anymore.... nurse cows are a pain, but they are a much better option for me.... and we are lucky to get calves directly off a farm that I KNOW how they start the calves off... and their "bugs" and ours are compatible.  By the time you treat and fool with bottle calves, it turns out to almost always be better to put out more money up front for weaned calves.  Been there, done that many many years...
> 
> Hope the weather will work better for you and you can get the hay made, dry,  soon....


Definitely difficult to get it all done while working the full time jobs, and weather isnt helping of course. Round bales are not so bad and at least they can sit in the field for a few days, the small squares have to be done with a 3 days rain free window minimum, longer if possible. The parts baler was $200 and no we couldnt really afford it but as you say it is worth it and needed. The feed arm carriage/arms I dont even want to guess a price on. Definately know about parts, thats like most "good deals" on rakes, you might get it for $500 but it then needs $300 in tines at least ours was only missing 2 tines. Knotters are a nightmare if timing gets off on them, we spend  many many many hours trying to fix a set of knotters off-timed a few years ago which was compounded with worn out bill-hooks. 

Yeah we are leaning that way at least for heifers but peanut was free and you can't say no to a free angus heifer calf out of excellent stock. Angus heifer calves out of worse stock or crossbred up here are $500+ if you can even find them and those might still be just off bottles.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Ginny seems to be recovering from her pnemonia, we ended up getting/using tylan 200 as the Pen G was not doing it. She is sickly skinny looking but eating lots of hay/grain and sucking down her bottles faster then the Holstein who is 4.5 weeks older. Hopefully she makes a full recovery.

Ivy had a set of twin kids on Saturday morning. One boy and one girl. They seem to be doing good and Ivy is being her usual awesome mom. Ivy's light daughter's twins are doing well despite being tiny, but their mom has a pretty small bag. 

I believe we have decided to breed Mr. Goat to Ivy and her 2019 daughters, breed our new buck to 3 twin girls when they are old enough, then breed Ivy's new son to Espresso, Phoebe's daughter and Jupiter when he is old enough. So the adults will be bred in November, and the 2021 kids will be breed when they are big enough probly Feb/march or we will hold them and breed them November 2022.

The funny thing is the coloring...... 
Ivy had twin girls 2019 they were one light white/cream color and one red color.
Ivy's red daughter had twins, one light white/cream color and one red color. red is boy, white is girl.
Ivy's white daughter had twins, one light white/cream color and one red color. red is a boy, white is a girl.
Ivy had twins, one is light white/cream and one is red, Red is a boy, white is a girl 
Phoebe's Daughter had twin girls, one white/cream and one red(Jupiter)
Ivy's red daughter's 2020 kid was a red boy.

Ivy looks like a toggenburg, Mr goat is red, Phoebe was red paint, Phoebe's daughter is a tri color(white,black,brown), our old buck Big Boy was a solid red/golden. If Espresso our black head boer pops out with twins the same color I am going to be really shocked.

In other news, most of Mr. Goats kids are not showing the spots or very few spots other then Jupiter and her sister we lost. So we will be doing some breeding back I'm pretty sure at some point.

I got hail damage on my car and submitted the estimate to the insurance company, they totaled my car. Luckily I got a good deal when I bought it and I am getting 3k back cash after they pay off my loan. So I shall be driving/buying my sisters 2008 trailbazer that has been sitting at my house for a couple months. It's a hard pill to swallow going from a fully loaded 2014 to a base model 2008 but it is an suv and I am not buying a car right now. Prices in my area are maxed out to KBB prices or above! I could drive down state and find something cheaper but that is a pain and they dont really have anything I'm a huge fan of atm. Plus side is between the cheaper insurance and not having a car payment I am paying $250 less a month in bills.

I also ripped out the carpeting in our stairwell over the weekend. I just couldnt handle it anymore, it was nasty as it is where we enter and exit the house as well as how you get to the basement. I was surprised to find real hardwood floor on the landing and and nice tread boards as well as my kitchen laminate floor was finished and had a threshold strip under the carpeting. So I am repainting the entire entry white. it was a cream color and now painted well, then refinishing the landing and treads in a transparent grey wash stain and triple thick poly.

Nothing else much new around our place atm.


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## farmerjan

If it was only hail damage to the car, was it not economical to just buy it off the insurance company?   I am not sure of why it was totaled from hail damage?  Maybe there was other damage?  I hit a deer with my jeep years ago, and they totaled it and I I bought it back and drove it for another year or so until the transmission went out of it and I sold it for parts.  But, it may have been the best deal for you.... 
All used vehicles are high.... the difficulty of getting the electronics for the new vehicles is ridiculous.... and not everyone wants new stuff so the demand for used is higher.  
Yes it is a plus in the money savings....Hope that you will get good enough mileage on the blazer.....

Seems like the color gene is sex-linked in your animals.  Thinking of that, it will be an interesting experiment with my longhorn cow.... she had a black bull calf last year... sold good.  She had a mostly white-lightly speckled- heifer calf this year.  The cow is mostly white with black "points",  nose, ears, etc.... Sire of both calves is the same black angus bull .... using a different black angus bull this year.  So will see what next year brings....


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> If it was only hail damage to the car, was it not economical to just buy it off the insurance company?   I am not sure of why it was totaled from hail damage?  Maybe there was other damage?  I hit a deer with my jeep years ago, and they totaled it and I I bought it back and drove it for another year or so until the transmission went out of it and I sold it for parts.  But, it may have been the best deal for you....
> All used vehicles are high.... the difficulty of getting the electronics for the new vehicles is ridiculous.... and not everyone wants new stuff so the demand for used is higher.
> Yes it is a plus in the money savings....Hope that you will get good enough mileage on the blazer.....
> 
> Seems like the color gene is sex-linked in your animals.  Thinking of that, it will be an interesting experiment with my longhorn cow.... she had a black bull calf last year... sold good.  She had a mostly white-lightly speckled- heifer calf this year.  The cow is mostly white with black "points",  nose, ears, etc.... Sire of both calves is the same black angus bull .... using a different black angus bull this year.  So will see what next year brings....



It was just hail damage. According to my insurance company my car is worth $7,006, my loan payoff is $3,908, my deductible is $500, the buy back was $2,700, they also pay me for registration, taxes and title trasnfer so if I went that route I would have got about $200 cash and been able to keep my car. I would not be able to fix my car as the estimate for fixing the hail damage was $7,200some, without my car being fixed I can only get PLPD insurance and my car would carry a salvage title noting the hail damage status. With the number of deer right by where we live and my long drive to and from work there is no way I am doing PLPD without any possibility for collision or comp. I have been down that road with my trailblazer and ended up putting $1,400 in parts out of my pocket on it with the first deer it hit. The one deer I hit with my current car was about $5,500 the insurance company paid to fix.

The other option is the insurance company payoffs my $3,908 loan and I get almost $3,000 back in cash. I also get to save about $250/month in bills. The money I save on the bills should offset the higher fuel costs. My car was not doing great, something is wrong with the engine but no one can tell me what, beyond that it needs a new rear caliper and something under the hood started making a whining noise probly a water pump or something but the shop wasnt sure. We have other vehicles I can drive so that route seems to make the most sense. Then when prices come down to pre-pandemic I can shop for a vehicle I want.

Yeah that is sort of what I was thinking but that's really odd and I have never herd of such a thing in goats. I mean Ivy's line and Phoebe's line are completely unrelated and the single buck kid was from a different sire then this batch. Guess I will see if the pattern keeps repeating itself hopefully not with the new tri-color buck. We brought in the black head and picked the tri-color to try to get black on our goats so really hope we get some. Espresso the black head looks prego so we shall see.


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## Baymule

That is quite the coincidental on the goat colors! What are the chances of that happening? Cool

Yay on ripping up carpeting


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> That is quite the coincidental on the goat colors! What are the chances of that happening? Cool
> 
> Yay on ripping up carpeting


Yeah crazy, shall see if it is actually sex linked. Only ones that broke the pattern were the first wins who were both girls.


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## farmerjan

I agree that you made the smart decision.  I hadn't thought about them not giving you comp or coll with the hail damage.... plus you probably got out of future engine problems so agree... you made a very smart move. Fixing the hail damage would not make it run any better....And now you have time to look.  Sounds like the deer there are as bad as they are here.... I hit (or get hit by) at least one a year.... but my vehicles are old enough to not make comp and coll worth it anymore.  I would just go find another one to buy. And I am not traveling daily for a job anymore like you do.  When I was testing alot more farms, I did have comp and coll on my vehicle for that same reason.... deer mostly. 

Really interesting on the color/sex coincidence.  

That's great on the hardwood floor....


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> I agree that you made the smart decision.  I hadn't thought about them not giving you comp or coll with the hail damage.... plus you probably got out of future engine problems so agree... you made a very smart move. Fixing the hail damage would not make it run any better....And now you have time to look.  Sounds like the deer there are as bad as they are here.... I hit (or get hit by) at least one a year.... but my vehicles are old enough to not make comp and coll worth it anymore.  I would just go find another one to buy. And I am not traveling daily for a job anymore like you do.  When I was testing alot more farms, I did have comp and coll on my vehicle for that same reason.... deer mostly.
> 
> Really interesting on the color/sex coincidence.
> 
> That's great on the hardwood floor....


Thank you, I would like to think it was the smart move. Deer particularly the last few miles by my house are horrible! We live by 1,000+ acres of federal land on our southeast side and the southwest side/across the road from our house there is a "club" with about 75 houses. It's really a gated community but anyhow there is no hunting allowed on the almost 400 acre property and a whole ton of people there feed deer BY HAND over there and feed them all winter. So you can imagine how many deer there are between the federal land and the club. To both the north east and northwest there is 120 and 80 acres of corn planted so really helpful....  Basically deer haven.

Dunno if I mentioned it but we also have a black bear near our house. He was spotted on our property a few months before we moved in and now has been spotted twice this summer within a mile from my house. We have a couple acres of wild raspberries which is I assume why the bear was visiting.

Spent yesterday morning detailing my car and cleaning it all out....yes for them to take it away  Don't want anyone seeing my filth, to be honest it was way past needing to be detailed after the whole pandemic thing. The car looks really nice anyhow now.

Ginny has been sucking down bottles like no tomorrow which is great as she gets 3 a day now until she puts on some good weight, poor girl makes me so sad to look at her so thin. Chug(the white & red calf) is doing really great and growing well and quick. He is actually ready to wean but we cant wean him alone and the other 2 are not ready but getting close for the white & black calf. Ginny is going to be on a bottle for at least another month I think unless she really starts to pack on weight and get that feed intake up. She is eating hay and grain very well for her age.

The steers we are probly going to have butchered the end of december but depends on how good they look for weight. They have grown a lot of the past month or so and put on good weight. I dont really want to over winter them but might end up having to wait until spring, they are only 14 months old atm which means they will be 17 months old the end of november. Pretty early for dairy steers. If we wait they wont be butchered until march or april but putting weight on in winter here is very difficult, they lose a lot of fat.


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## farmerjan

If the steers are gaining well, then Dec ought to be okay.  I understand that the cold is hard on them maintaining their weight/fat.  I would ramp up their grain now, and plan to do them in Dec.  They may not have the fat you want, but hopefully in 4 months increased grain - corn - should help to pack on some fat.  Don't know how much you are feeding, and corn prices had gone up, although they have come off here a bit... but I would pour the grain to them if you want to push for Dec... and in the long run get them off the long term grain/hay bill....


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## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> Thank you, I would like to think it was the smart move. Deer particularly the last few miles by my house are horrible! We live by 1,000+ acres of federal land on our southeast side and the southwest side/across the road from our house there is a "club" with about 75 houses. It's really a gated community but anyhow there is no hunting allowed on the almost 400 acre property and a whole ton of people there feed deer BY HAND over there and feed them all winter. So you can imagine how many deer there are between the federal land and the club. To both the north east and northwest there is 120 and 80 acres of corn planted so really helpful....  Basically deer haven.
> 
> Dunno if I mentioned it but we also have a black bear near our house. He was spotted on our property a few months before we moved in and now has been spotted twice this summer within a mile from my house. We have a couple acres of wild raspberries which is I assume why the bear was visiting.
> 
> Spent yesterday morning detailing my car and cleaning it all out....yes for them to take it away  Don't want anyone seeing my filth, to be honest it was way past needing to be detailed after the whole pandemic thing. The car looks really nice anyhow now.
> 
> Ginny has been sucking down bottles like no tomorrow which is great as she gets 3 a day now until she puts on some good weight, poor girl makes me so sad to look at her so thin. Chug(the white & red calf) is doing really great and growing well and quick. He is actually ready to wean but we cant wean him alone and the other 2 are not ready but getting close for the white & black calf. Ginny is going to be on a bottle for at least another month I think unless she really starts to pack on weight and get that feed intake up. She is eating hay and grain very well for her age.
> 
> The steers we are probly going to have butchered the end of december but depends on how good they look for weight. They have grown a lot of the past month or so and put on good weight. I dont really want to over winter them but might end up having to wait until spring, they are only 14 months old atm which means they will be 17 months old the end of november. Pretty early for dairy steers. If we wait they wont be butchered until march or april but putting weight on in winter here is very difficult, they lose a lot of fat.


A deer subdivision! Good grass, browse and hand fed! Do either of you hunt? I think I’d get my license and harvest some of that well fed meat.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> If the steers are gaining well, then Dec ought to be okay.  I understand that the cold is hard on them maintaining their weight/fat.  I would ramp up their grain now, and plan to do them in Dec.  They may not have the fat you want, but hopefully in 4 months increased grain - corn - should help to pack on some fat.  Don't know how much you are feeding, and corn prices had gone up, although they have come off here a bit... but I would pour the grain to them if you want to push for Dec... and in the long run get them off the long term grain/hay bill....



That is sort of the plant, we are working them towards more and more corn. We bought 3 tons of corn before prices went up and have it stored at the feed mill so price should not be a problem. If we worked them up to it would there be a problem with having them on a sort of creep feed/ 24hrs grain access diet? I know they do that with younger calves/steers but I am not sure how adults would handle it.



Baymule said:


> A deer subdivision! Good grass, browse and hand fed! Do either of you hunt? I think I’d get my license and harvest some of that well fed meat.


Yes we both get licenses to hunt deer, problem is when deer season rolls around we have hunting clubs all around us so if we even see a deer on our place it is a miracle. In 3 yrs we have seen 1 deer during hunting season and couldnt even get a shot on that one. We have deer trails all thru our place but just nothing shows up during season so far. We even tried putting out our legal amount of bait and nodda. Just to much food around during hunting season for them to care.


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## Mini Horses

We have a lot of corn, soybean, peanuts and cotton here....WELL fed deer!   Then, winter wheat....yeah. These herds are fat and happy.  With good feed, quite prolific.  Not unusual to see 10-15 out for dinner in the fields by me.


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## farmerjan

If you start to work them up to 24/7 now they ought to do okay.  Try putting out more feed about 2-3 hours after you feed them their normal feed... and if they don't go crazy over it, then they will acclimate to it.  If they are full on hay, they should then get to where they are going over and browsing on it,  not gulping it.  But then all animals are different.  But think about dairy animals... they eat some silage, get a drink, chew their cud, go eat some more....it is in front of them 24/7 pretty much.  Too bad you didn't have silage, then you could top dress with more corn and increase their intake that way.... I am not totally sold on silage, but it has really helped us with getting calves weaned and on feed... it is another of the "tools" you use for feeding... and it is cheap feed in comparison to just hay and grain.  
I would just try to start upping with feeding 1/3 more a feeding, for a few days then up it again... there will come a point where they should eat their fill, then walk away and leave some for later....


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mini Horses said:


> We have a lot of corn, soybean, peanuts and cotton here....WELL fed deer!   Then, winter wheat....yeah. These herds are fat and happy.  With good feed, quite prolific.  Not unusual to see 10-15 out for dinner in the fields by me.


Oh yes our fields are full of corn, beans, sugar beets, oats, wheat, carrots, potatoes, alfalfa, etc plenty of food all over the place. You can drive around here and see over 50 deer in a single field some evenings. It has gotten bad enough they keep brining in the army and dnr to sniper/hunt the deer. They will come out and take 2,000+ deer in a single day and they do it 2-4 times a year. Even still we are being over run, as the cost of hunting licenses goes up and less and less people have land or the want to hunt deer. The wolves and cougars are starting to recover and come back though which are their natural predators so hopefully things will improve in the next 20yrs.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> If you start to work them up to 24/7 now they ought to do okay.  Try putting out more feed about 2-3 hours after you feed them their normal feed... and if they don't go crazy over it, then they will acclimate to it.  If they are full on hay, they should then get to where they are going over and browsing on it,  not gulping it.  But then all animals are different.  But think about dairy animals... they eat some silage, get a drink, chew their cud, go eat some more....it is in front of them 24/7 pretty much.  Too bad you didn't have silage, then you could top dress with more corn and increase their intake that way.... I am not totally sold on silage, but it has really helped us with getting calves weaned and on feed... it is another of the "tools" you use for feeding... and it is cheap feed in comparison to just hay and grain.
> I would just try to start upping with feeding 1/3 more a feeding, for a few days then up it again... there will come a point where they should eat their fill, then walk away and leave some for later....


Ok I will give that a try. DH and I have have been talking about haylage and silage the past couple months. We will at some point be looking into a bale wrapper and a chopper, if the row crops scheduled for next year go well. I do know there are benefits to those and if we want to do more commerical sheep operation we will be switching to a TMR which needs haylage or silage to be logical.


----------



## Mini Horses

misfitmorgan said:


> It has gotten bad enough they keep brining in the army and dnr to sniper/hunt the deer. They will come out and take 2,000+ deer in a single day and they do it 2-4 times a year. Even still we are being over run, as the cost of hunting licenses goes up


  So what do they do with them???

There are groups who hunt and donate the carcass for those in need.  But the amounts you have there would need half an army just to gut and hang to chill!!   Maybe some of the big zoos could benefit...and be thrilled to have those carcass.    Disposal is a whole nuther issue.

We still have some hunters and small hunt clubs here.  Thinning out each year as homesites grow.  Still a good amount of woods around but, unfortunately replants are mainly pine.  International paper has thousands of acres and some is not replanted but claimed for farming...or...


----------



## misfitmorgan

Mini Horses said:


> So what do they do with them???
> 
> There are groups who hunt and donate the carcass for those in need.  But the amounts you have there would need half an army just to gut and hang to chill!!   Maybe some of the big zoos could benefit...and be thrilled to have those carcass.    Disposal is a whole nuther issue.
> 
> We still have some hunters and small hunt clubs here.  Thinning out each year as homesites grow.  Still a good amount of woods around but, unfortunately replants are mainly pine.  International paper has thousands of acres and some is not replanted but claimed for farming...or...


I'm not entirely sure as far as I know they go to different soup kitchens and volunteers process them for those kitchens. Even with the shooting they have programs where they SPAY does. From 2009 to 2019 hunting is down 20%, the pandemic actually got more people hunting they sold almost 250,000 more licenses. The average number of deer taken in the state in a year is 364,000 which is up from the normal average of 200k. Women hunters increased by 35% and ages 10-16 hunters increased by 190% during the pandemic. 

It's just not enough though, we have on avg 45 deer per square mile in my county and the ones surrounding us. So my 30 mile trip to work means potentially driving past 1,350 deer...each way.

We also have groups and clubs that hunt and donate to soup kitchens. We have block permits for farmers that allow them to take if I recall right 30 deer per year per farm, that are damaging crops or eating livestock feeds/baled hay. I imagine some the dnr killed carcasses probly make their way to zoos or other processing plants for pet food. 

We thankfully have a lot of our normal non-pine trees left here but there are large jack pine trash tree plantations. The most commonly used tree currently is Red Pine. People are moving towards other tree types for replanting or planting to offset harvest or emissions which is great. One guy did a small plantation in black walnut, another guy did oak, etc because land replanted with jack pine is worth dittly and they didnt want to do that to their property for their kids and grandkids. If you want to plant non-trash people are going for black walnut. black cherry, types of oaks, sugar maples, yellow poplar, white ash and hybrid poplars. We also have tons and tons and tons of spruces, firs, and pines that are planted for Christmas tree farms. It is now often pretty common to do mixed tree plantations which look much nicer and restore the value to the land.


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## Baymule

Wow, the number of deer in your area is unreal. Astounding. Y’all need some good ol’ southern boys up there to help reduce numbers. Lol


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Wow, the number of deer in your area is unreal. Astounding. Y’all need some good ol’ southern boys up there to help reduce numbers. Lol


That is exactly why I refuse to keep my car and have no comp on it. A lot of people come from out of state to hunt, just simply isnt enough. They keep the prices high on all licenses to help reduce the number of hunters because about 150yrs ago the whitetail was hunted to almost complete extinction in southern michigan. They actually had to have a program where they transplanted deer from the north back down to the south to re-populate them. the part they dont look at is that that aggressive hunting was done by market hunters who shipped the meat out of state for human consumption on the east coast and other places until a law was made to stop it 120yrs ago.

The other issue was they also hunted/killed the wolves and cougars to almost extinction in michigan. In 1935 the DNR declared wolves were extinct in lower michigan. We almost lost them altogether though, they were only 6 recorded wolves in the entire state and a few on an island. The DNR kept their stand of no wolves in lower michigan even with game cam evidence. Until finally they DNR tested some scat and proved it to be a grey wolf....in 2019. However in 2004 a trapper killed a grey wolf thinking it was a coyote, a county over from us. So wolves are coming back to lower Michigan which is good. For the cougars there have been sightings and cam game videos since 2008.


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## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> We have deer trails all thru our place but just nothing shows up during season so far.


They KNOW!!!! I watch Outdoors With the Morgans on YouTube. They see deer ALL the time .... except during hunting season.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> They KNOW!!!! I watch Outdoors With the Morgans on YouTube. They see deer ALL the time .... except during hunting season.


Pretty much how it works out. I swear someone gave them calendars.


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## misfitmorgan

They finally came and picked up my car last night at 8pm.

The trailblazer I am suppose to be driving is not driveable atm.....shocking I know. The battery was dead and couldnt jump it. So put a new battery in, it started fine. Next morning I get in and start it and find out I have no power steering....puddle on the ground so open the hood, belt is broken. Go after work and get a new belt, spend 20 minutes putting it on by myself. Start car and smell burning and see smoke. Alternator is shot and seized up. Bought a new alternator last night, spend 40 minutes trying to get the lower bolt off with a wrench, drop the wrench in the engine 6 times, the 7th time I couldnt find it, was pretty much dark out and I was getting eaten by mosquitos. Went to bed. Hopefully today after work it gets sorted out, also bout more steering fluid but not sure what caused it to leak out.

I bought a fishing boat yesterday after work, have to go pick it up on sunday. It is not a gorgeous boat by any means but it is a 14ft bass style boat, with 6 up-rights on it, tags for the year, a nice trailer, an almost new motor, and a brand new garmin fish finder as well as a bunch of other extras the guy is giving us. We are friends with the owner and got the boat for $800. Looking at other prices around here we got a very good deal.


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## Bruce

Maybe you could put wheels on the bass boat and drive it to work!


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Maybe you could put wheels on the bass boat and drive it to work!


Technically the trailer has wheels..... but no I think I will stick with the trailblazer plan. Today and yesterday I just drove our chevy truck to work.


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## Baymule

You are a lot smarter than I am. Working on a car is above my pay grade. 
Congratulations on the boat purchase. Y’all will get a lot of enjoyment out of it and hopefully put some fish in the freezer!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> You are a lot smarter than I am. Working on a car is above my pay grade.
> Congratulations on the boat purchase. Y’all will get a lot of enjoyment out of it and hopefully put some fish in the freezer!



It is above my pay grade as well.....youtube is my friend and teacher   

Anything I need to do on any of the cars I just search for "how to...." and there is always a youtube video of how to do it, what tools you need, things to unplug first, etc.

DH sent me a pic of the wrench I lost in the engine and the alternator sitting on top of the engine.....I do love him! So I just need to put the alternator in when I get home and then fight the belt back into place(youtube showed me how) and fill the power steering to check if it is still leaking and from where......hopefully it is good to go then.

I actually found the repair receipts for that thing going back to 2012. Someone dumped a lot of money into it, including new 4x4 assembly, bearings, tie rod ends, rotors, etc.

Thank you Bay I am hoping we can carve out some time to do more fishing. I'm mostly after catfish but am perfectly happy with walleye, or perch or whatever as well. When the salmon run we hope to get a few of those to smoke as well. Could go for some smoked trout too.


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## farmerjan

misfitmorgan said:


> Pretty much how it works out. I swear someone gave them calendars.


Yeah, with the hunting season marked in RED.... so they can plan their exit strategy to the nearest no hunting section of woods.....


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Yeah, with the hunting season marked in RED.... so they can plan their exit strategy to the nearest no hunting section of woods.....


 seems so true!


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## Baymule

Salmon fishing! That would be fun!


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## farmerjan

Hey @misfitmorgan,  long time no posts..... was wondering how things were going as hunting season is soon upon us and I know that your area is covered up with deer.  
Hit my deer the other morning on the way to work... thought I killed it but nothing there when I came home so must've gotten up and gone off... I was too pi$$ed off and didn't have the time to worry about it and continued on to work.  Broke the signal light lens, dented the fender but I hadn't been going very fast since I had just gone by 2 others that stayed right there on the side of the road, but this stupid young buck had to turn and decide he needed to run across the road.... was very glad that his horn didn't go through the radiator or anything... need to get the alignment checked as it seems to want to drift to the right a bit...

Hope all went well with getting the vehicle finally back on the road.


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