# New to BYH and Bottle Babies, with Questions.



## PaintedGemsRanch (Aug 10, 2010)

Hello Everyone, My name is Ashley!!! Ive been on BYC for awhile and have now drifted over to BYH. We have 5 horses, 2 dogs, a bunch of chickens, a 6-8 month old Boer cross (with probably Pygmy because she is so small, she was obtained for the auction), and have since obtained 2 little bottle boys (Nigerian Dwarfs born 7-11-10). I will have to also start off with admitting I did NOT do my research as I should have before getting any goats. :/ Yes, I know... I deserve this.... !!! (times 3 since that is how many I have!) Its the bottle boys im getting nervous about. I drove 7 hours total to get these beautiful little boys! When I got there I saw them in their pen, SO TINY! The breeder wasnt there (I was late, Atlanta traffic!) so her husband (doesnt know anything about goats) met me there. I knew from the pictures which were mine and told him because we was picking them all up trying to find boys! Well let me start by saying these boys were advertised as Wethers and I paid $100 for the pair. When I looked at them one had a little poo dried around his bottom (Bob) and the other, Marley, had crust on his nose. *Should have been clue #1!* I assumed she ran a tight business and wouldnt do me wrong so I paid her husband and he gave me albon and frozen goats milk (Half a gallon, which I knew wouldnt be enough!) to bring home and said his wife would call me with instructions. *Clue #2, in a way* Needless to say I got them home, let their bellies settle a bit and gave them a bottle. As I did I noticed things dangling behind!!! I was under the assumption that a wether was a cut boy! So I called her, to 1 make sure I wasnt loosing my mind (maybe she didnt band) and 2 find out what a wether was then! She told me a wether is a boy with no papers... I begged to differ, Am I wrong? *Clue #3?* Both boys have been eager to drink. Sometimes more and sometimes less but they always come running and wag their tails as they suck their bottles down. Oh, I should mention they are on the very thin side, IMO. *Clue #4!* I finished the goats milk and switched to whole milk. Both are peeing well. It took awhile to notice any poop. I watched them for 15 min after they drank, Bob didnt go at all, and the other, Marley, seemed constipated. Finally Saturday afternoon I noticed some poo in the horse trailer, light brown in color, not round but defined. Definitely what I think "milk" poo should look like. I began watching closer, the tables have turned and now the one that was having problems is going ok (crust is gone too) and the other has pasty, wet, runs. These little guys have been through a lot 7 hours worth of driving, and 3 homes since Thursday! I started their albon this morning, 2ccs and will continue 4? days at 1cc? According to the breeder! They are drinking (give or take) 25oz of milk all day. They take a 10oz morning, 5oz afternoon, and 10oz at night. Sometimes they will have more or less but will make it up at another feeding. Each time they have been fed until they are full and stop drinking. I guess my questions are am I doing right by them? Should I be doing something else? Am I missing anything? Am I doing too much? They are both running around, kicking their heels up in the backyard and come running for their bottles. Oh I also noticed some bugs crawling on them. I wasnt sure about the "Sevins Dust" (Its actually Zap something from Tractor supply that I use on my chickens, although only recommended for horses and cattle) I have so I rubbed some DE (Diatamaceous Earth) spelling??. Yes, its the food grade kind and I didnt think it would hurt them since I use it in the bedding and with the chickens too. I just knew Sevins could be dangerous and wanted to make sure before I used it. Please dont nail me to the wall too bad... I have since learned my lesson and I know I dont know near as much as I should but I guess I have to start somewhere. Thank you in advance, you all are absolutely wonderful. I have read many posts before posting my own thread so I guess I just need peace of mind or confidence or something HAHA. I look forward to posting more and sharing these beautiful boys with all of you!!!!! 


Edit to add!: Sorry, I guess I should add pictures of these pretty little things! I know its mandatory HAHAH!

http://s295.photobucket.com/albums/mm146/ashandryan/The Goats/


----------



## ksalvagno (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi Ashley, your new little guys are cute. Wethers are neutered males. The original breeder should have banded or castrated them for you. However, they should be at least 8 weeks old and if you can wait till 12 weeks old to neuter them, that would even be better. Since I don't bottle feed, someone else will have to answer your other questions. I know you can use the seven dust on goats but I'm not sure about using it on really young ones. But you could give them Ivomec orally. Give them 1/2cc of Ivomec and then give them another dose in 10 days. Congratulations on your new little guys!


----------



## helmstead (Aug 10, 2010)

What are you feeding them?  Replacer or cows milk?

Yes, they are old enough for the ivermec, which will treat the lice.  I deworm kids under 1 year old monthly.  I don't like to use Sevin dust.  CyLence is another good product for lice and flies.

They're also old enough to start eating medicated goat pellets and hay.  You can offer this free choice.

The albon, should be dosed for at least 5 days.  I haven't used albon in so long I can't remember the concentration...so can't remember the actual dose...but 1 cc sounds right.

They are beautiful.  Depending on where you are I can help you find someone to wether them after they're 8 weeks old.


----------



## glenolam (Aug 10, 2010)

Your boys are very beautiful.

Yes, ksalvagno is correct - wethers are NOT boys without papers; they are neutered males so if you don't plan on breeding them at all, then you should find someone to band them.  You may want to call that 'breeder' and inform her! Let us know where you are and we can help you.

They would have gotten a little backed up with the switch from goats milk to "regular" milk - if you're using milk from the store, make sure it's whole cow's milk.

Have fun!


----------



## PaintedGemsRanch (Aug 10, 2010)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Hi Ashley, your new little guys are cute. Wethers are neutered males. The original breeder should have banded or castrated them for you. However, they should be at least 8 weeks old and if you can wait till 12 weeks old to neuter them, that would even be better. Since I don't bottle feed, someone else will have to answer your other questions. I know you can use the seven dust on goats but I'm not sure about using it on really young ones. But you could give them Ivomec orally. Give them 1/2cc of Ivomec and then give them another dose in 10 days. Congratulations on your new little guys!


Thank you! We are so excited to have them! I read about them for weeks before I got them, but now that they are here I feel like I dont know anything!  Well at least my suspicions were right about the wether thing, I knew I wasnt completely clueless! I can wait however long. I have a female but I am also able to separate her from the boys if it comes to that first. I dont have actual Ivomec, I have an offbrand "Iver-On". Its a cattle pour on and it has 5mg/mL. Is this ok? (Also does anyone know if it would it be ok for the chickens?) 





			
				helmstead said:
			
		

> What are you feeding them?  Replacer or cows milk?
> 
> Yes, they are old enough for the ivermec, which will treat the lice.  I deworm kids under 1 year old monthly.  I don't like to use Sevin dust.  CyLence is another good product for lice and flies.
> 
> ...


They are being fed whole cows milk.

I dont like using Sevins either but do tend to use it on the chickens when needed. Again the question (in case everyone reads their own reply and not the whole long tangent LOL)  I dont have actual Ivomec, I have an offbrand "Iver-On". Its a cattle pour on and it has 5mg/mL. Is this ok? (Also does anyone know if it would it be ok for the chickens?) 

I have the Medicated Purina Goat Chow, I am trying to find the  medicated pelleted instead of textured. I am trying the next town over this afternoon. If I am correct they need pelleted and not the sweet stuff right? And you mean just the hay free choice? or both?

I will continue with the albon treatment unless I hear otherwise.

And thank you, I am awfully proud of them! I am in Hamilton, Georgia (Zip is 31811, if anyone googles it).






			
				glenolam said:
			
		

> Your boys are very beautiful.
> 
> Yes, ksalvagno is correct - wethers are NOT boys without papers; they are neutered males so if you don't plan on breeding them at all, then you should find someone to band them.  You may want to call that 'breeder' and inform her! Let us know where you are and we can help you.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much!!

No, they will not be bred. They are just pets. I did (absolutely!) call the breeder and tell her the next morning (It was 1030PM when I got home with them). I couldnt believe she told me that! ACK! I was mad and I think she knew it! I am in Hamilton, Ga and my zip is 31811, if that is any help.

I am hoping it is as simple as just the switch and nothing very serious. Yes, its whole milk. My 2 year old asked me yesterday, "Mommy, Whats all that?" when I brought home 3 gallons of milk (he is used to only 1) HAHAHHAHA






Thank you ALL! so much for your replies! I am looking forward to this beautiful journey (x3!) and making new friends!! Yall are wonderful!!

Edited: Because I cant spell!


----------



## helmstead (Aug 10, 2010)

Yup the pour on is great but give it orally to the goats.  1 cc per 22 lbs is the dose we use.  And yes, you can use it on the chickens, but remember there is an egg withdrawl time...

Yes, pellets are preferable to textured feed, esp for boys.

You're on the right track.


----------



## ksalvagno (Aug 10, 2010)

You wouldn't want to give them the pour on Ivomec orally. You can buy an offbrand of Ivomec Injectible. I have Noromectin. You may want to get the 1% injectible.

Helmstead got to you before I did. I guess pour on is ok orally. I'm just not used to buying the pour on.


----------



## helmstead (Aug 10, 2010)

I think you're closest to Sandie at Lil Hill...I'm not familiar with many goatie people over there by the AL border.  Maybe she can help you find someone nearby.

Also, check out www.georgiagoat.com LOTS of friendly, helpful people there!


----------



## PaintedGemsRanch (Aug 10, 2010)

Thank you both! Will it be ok to give that to them along with the albon? I cant bring myself to force it down their throat anymore, they didnt trust me for hours yesterday  LOL Although if needed I could! I fixed them a 3 oz bottle, knowing they would drink it all, and gave them the albon this morning  Can I give them the IverOn in their afternoon bottle the same way?


----------



## PaintedGemsRanch (Aug 10, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I think you're closest to Sandie at Lil Hill...I'm not familiar with many goatie people over there by the AL border.  Maybe she can help you find someone nearby.
> 
> Also, check out www.georgiagoat.com LOTS of friendly, helpful people there!


Ooohhh! Thank you! I dont mind heading over to Alabama either, its not far to the Auburn area.


----------



## lilhill (Aug 10, 2010)

Auburn is about 5 hours southeast of me.  There are good Nigi breeders down that way though which will be a lot closer.  Rhonda at Sugar Valley farm is close to Auburn and she may be able to help you out.  I'll be happy to help in anyway I can if you want to drive up this far.


----------



## PaintedGemsRanch (Aug 10, 2010)

lilhill said:
			
		

> Auburn is about 5 hours southeast of me.  There are good Nigi breeders down that way though which will be a lot closer.  Rhonda at Sugar Valley farm is close to Auburn and she may be able to help you out.  I'll be happy to help in anyway I can if you want to drive up this far.


Thank you Sandie! I will definitely be getting in touch with her!! If not I wouldnt mind coming up to you! I love seeing new places! Also these boys are now my responsibility regardless of how they were sold, so if it takes a 5 hour drive, well I guess thats what it takes! Right!?!?!


----------



## lilhill (Aug 10, 2010)

Little Star Nigerians is in Pell City, AL which may be a bit closer to you, too.


----------



## PaintedGemsRanch (Aug 10, 2010)

Thank you all so much! Youre so much help and such a blessing! I will keep everyone posted on our progress over the next few days!! and if anyone has anything to add, please do! I will check back daily!


Quick (almost) REALLY BAD story that just happened a couple hours ago!!

As stated, I have IverOn. I opened it up got my syringe out and was ready to get these boys taken care of. I opened the bottle and got a VERY strong alcohol smell. I accidentally spilled it on my hand (I have a small cut on it) and it stung! I also noticed it was BLUE!!! ACK! Thats NOT normal! I think its finger nail polish remover!!!!! I think someone bought it, used it, filled it back up with "something" to feel full and then took it back!!!! Needless to say I called Tractor Supply and they said to bring it back in the morning. I am REALLY glad it was me that bought it and not some helpless, doesnt know anything person. Something REALLLLLYYYYY bad could have happened to someones animals!


----------



## helmstead (Aug 10, 2010)

Um...LOL...you have the right stuff.


----------



## PaintedGemsRanch (Aug 10, 2010)

REALLY?!?!? I guess im the "helpless, doesnt know anything person" Jokes on me I guess! 

I just didnt think it would smell like that! Can I mix it in their bottle?? I know that has to taste awful!!!


----------



## PaintedGemsRanch (Aug 10, 2010)

So let me understand... It has the ivermectrin in it and is alcohol based since its a pour on. The alcohol evaporates and leaves the iver?? I would hate to have that poured in my mouth! YUCK!


----------



## helmstead (Aug 10, 2010)

Just squirt it in their mouths with a 3 cc syringe.  They're over it pretty fast.  They likely wouldn't take a bottle with that mixed in it...

I've gotten it in my mouth, along with pretty well everything I've ever drenched a goat with.  It's not_ that _bad


----------



## FlightsofFancy (Aug 11, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Just squirt it in their mouths with a 3 cc syringe.  They're over it pretty fast.  They likely wouldn't take a bottle with that mixed in it...
> 
> I've gotten it in my mouth, along with pretty well everything I've ever drenched a goat with.  It's not_ that _bad


LOL! Too funny! I know I don't have any worms or cocci either. Always getting some on me too!


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 11, 2010)

I was a little shocked the first time I smelled it myself.  The ivomec is nasty but it's the dimethox that really sends mine over the edge... 

And I LOVE the markings on your broken buckskin.  He's a knock-out!


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 11, 2010)

Go get a vial of Ivomec 1% injectable..  If it's safe enough to go in the muscle, it's safe enough for guts.

The stuff you're smelling in Iver-On isn't likely simple alcohol..  I wasn't able to find an MSDS sheet on it, but I did find one for Cydectin Pour-on once, and learned that Cydectin pour-on (which is also purple and smells remarkably like nail-polish remover) contains an industrial solvent called "Aromatic 100."

Aromatic 100 is used in industrial degreasers, paint thinners, and fuel additives..  







 It's not good. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




According to a product safety sheet from Exxonmobile, "Symptoms of Aromatic 100 poisoning may include flushing, headache,
dizziness, central nervous system (CNS) depression, nausea, vomiting, anesthesia, and coma."

And when they say "CNS depression," that's really just a clinical, non-threatening way to say you stop breathing and die.  I personally know someone who's dosed goats orally with the pour-on to the point that they stumble around afterward..

He thought it was alcohol...drunkeness...upon learning that it's not alcohol, but actually petrocarbon...yeah...oops...that was probably Aromatic 100 poisoning.

He uses the injectable now...unless of course it's an old crappy goat he's going to eventually send to slaughter anyway.

Frankly, I don't think there's anything you could put in a pour-on to make it soak through the skin that would be OK in a drench, IMO..  Yes, I've done it...a few times...but I'll never, ever do it again.

I strongly advise that you do *NOT* go down this road.


----------



## Shiloh Acres (Aug 11, 2010)

Just wanted to say the pics finally loaded for me and I think that one is totally gorgeous too !  I'd LOVE to have a buck from good milking lines with markings like THAT!


----------



## PaintedGemsRanch (Aug 11, 2010)

Shiloh Acres said:
			
		

> Just wanted to say the pics finally loaded for me and I think that one is totally gorgeous too !  I'd LOVE to have a buck from good milking lines with markings like THAT!


They are from Teena (Gypsy Moons stock) Their sire is CH Gypsy Moon Sudoku (http://www.gypsymoonnigerians.com/Herd_Sires.html) and their dam is Gypsy Moon Dance Tunes (http://nailscreek.webs.com/does.htm).


Edit to add! These babies didnt come directly from Teena (Gypsy Moon). They are just from her sire and dam. The dam was sold prior to kidding.


----------



## PaintedGemsRanch (Aug 11, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Go get a vial of Ivomec 1% injectable..  If it's safe enough to go in the muscle, it's safe enough for guts.
> 
> The stuff you're smelling in Iver-On isn't likely simple alcohol..  I wasn't able to find an MSDS sheet on it, but I did find one for Cydectin Pour-on once, and learned that Cydectin pour-on (which is also purple and smells remarkably like nail-polish remover) contains an industrial solvent called "Aromatic 100."
> 
> ...


  !!!!!! Glad I didnt use that. To me, personally, I dont know if I would want to give it to them. The smell alone was auwful. They got their dewormer, a friend gave it (either Safegard or Strongid). I will dust them with the DE every few days to kill off the eggs that might hatch and keep an eye on them. I checked their coats today and only saw eggs, nothing moving. I know the DE wont hurt them so if it works, I would rather go that route? Does anyone have an opinion on this? If meds are a must, then so be it. Im not against them! Although these poor little guys have been through enough and I feel adding another med (they are currently getting albon and their CDT shot tomorrow) would be terrible. Again, if its needed then I dont mind going that route and I am open to any and all opinions!


----------



## Pioneer Chicken (Aug 12, 2010)

Your new goats are gorgeous!!!


----------



## helmstead (Aug 12, 2010)

I have used pour on Ivermec for years orally...so...to each his own, but it does no harm and is effective.  LOL @ Nicki...mine abhor the DiMethox, too!  They'd much rather take the ivermec.

You dewormed them with fenbendazole?  Better do it again in 10 days with Ivermec or Cydectin.  In GA, fenbendazole is USELESS against stomach worms....well, any worms for that matter.

Lice, you MUST treat with chemicals.   When you deworm with ivermec, that will also treat lice and mites (which is why I deworm all kids under 1 year old monthly with ivermec).  Another good treatment is CyLence, which also helps control biting flies.  You might be able to prevent lice with DE _once you've gotten rid of them_, but you won't actually kill them.


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 12, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I have used pour on Ivermec for years orally...so...to each his own, but it does no harm and is effective.


I've been made aware of some evidence -- 2nd hand, to be fair -- that drenching with pour-ons can, in fact, do harm.

It's effective, yes, because macrolides kill by direct contact with worms by crossing the cuticle from the outside...you could put ivermectin in anything into which it can be dissolved and drench with it, and it would be effective..

But...well...it's generally accepted as fact that _drinking petrocarbons_ ain't really great for one's health.  



> LOL @ Nicki...mine abhor the DiMethox, too!  They'd much rather take the ivermec.


Stuff's gross.  

Here's something weird...apparently, dectomax injectable tastes good.  I dunno why that is, but when I was using that as a drench, my tamer (and therefore less drench-averse) goats would actually take the drench and proceed to lick the residue off the syringe.

Weird.  



> You dewormed them with fenbendazole?  Better do it again in 10 days with Ivermec or Cydectin.  In GA, fenbendazole is USELESS against stomach worms....well, any worms for that matter.


That's not exactly true..  

Generally speaking, any dewormer will kill at least some worms, even in highly resistant populations.  Maybe not enough to make much of an impact on fecals or FAMACHA, but perhaps enough to keep one from bleeding to death when something stronger is applied.

I'm also of the opinion that fenbendazole should be part of everyone's rotation and given (100mg/10lbs for 3 days in a row) at least once a year to treat/prevent tapeworm.

(EDITED dosage info to fix superduper overdose.  .. )

It's one of the only dewormers that actually does work for tapeworm.



> Lice, you MUST treat with chemicals.   When you deworm with ivermec, that will also treat lice and mites (which is why I deworm all kids under 1 year old monthly with ivermec).


Provided your oral doses are high enough to increase blood levels sufficiently to kill external parasites..

The pharmacokinetics of oral ivermectin apparently aren't that great, which I take to explain the hit-or-miss results of drenching ivermectin for mites..

Just something to consider..



> Another good treatment is CyLence, which also helps control biting flies.  You might be able to prevent lice with DE _once you've gotten rid of them_, but you won't actually kill them.


Agreed, 100%.  Twice now, I've been "reminded" that it's probably getting about time to reapply CyLence on account of the sheer increase in fly aggravation..

Sure enough, when I check my books...never more than 3 or 4 days shy of time -- and I'm just talking about regular ol' blowflies, too..  

That stuff _works._ 

DE?...we probably all know how I feel about DE at this point.


----------



## helmstead (Aug 12, 2010)

CM...sometimes, you give ME a headache!  You are like information overload...I pity the newbies sometimes!

Having just moved away from GA, I can stand behind my issue with fenbendazole and fecals.  It is POINTLESS.  And in a one month old kid, I don't think the OP needs to worry about a wormload so intense that the first dose of a functioning dewormer will cause mass exodus LOL.

My goats enjoy Valbazen, too...go figure.  This is what I use for tapes (albendazole) which is only marginally effective against everything else so I also follow it up with an -ectin to cover the other bases.

FWIW...my goats don't have lice.  They have before, in the winter, when I missed a regular deworming.  So, apparently, my 1 cc per 22 lbs of ivermec given orally provides ample concentration in circulation to kill and repel lice.


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> CM...sometimes, you give ME a headache!  You are like information overload...I pity the newbies sometimes!


I pity newbies, too...  That's why I try to help.

If I don't make myself clear, or if something's too confusing or difficult to understand...people can say "WTH are you talking about, CM?" and I'll do my best to clarify.



> Having just moved away from GA, I can stand behind my issue with fenbendazole and fecals.  It is POINTLESS.


First...fecals are pointless in GA?  Why do you say that?

Second...are you saying fenbendazole does NOT work against tapeworms in GA?



> And in a one month old kid, I don't think the OP needs to worry about a wormload so intense that the first dose of a functioning dewormer will cause mass exodus LOL.


I never said anything about the OP needing to worry about that kind of wormload in her 1mo old...I was saying "Here's a good reason to keep fenbendazole in your cabinet."

And it _is_ a good reason -- along with using it on tapeworms.

Read up on benzamidazole resistance..  Everything I've EVER READ indicates that once a population of barberpole becomes resistant to one benzamidazole, they're resistant to all benzamidazoles, and that population doesn't revert to suspectibility.

That's reading, though, and I've never used any other benzamidazole class dewormer..  Has it been your experience that albendazole works better than fenbendazole?



> My goats enjoy Valbazen, too...go figure.  This is what I use for tapes (albendazole) which is only marginally effective against everything else so I also follow it up with an -ectin to cover the other bases.
> 
> FWIW...my goats don't have lice.  They have before, in the winter, when I missed a regular deworming.  So, apparently, my 1 cc per 22 lbs of ivermec given orally provides ample concentration in circulation to kill and repel lice.


I don't doubt it...for lice, anyway.  Could be it works for mites, too, depending on the situation..  Some report that it does, others report that it doesn't.

My thinking is that it probably has more to do with dosage (some people use it at 1ml/50lbs, or 1/33lbs, or 1ml/25lbs, or 1ml/22lbs..etc), which is why I said "provided your oral doses are high enough to increase blood levels sufficiently to kill external parasites.."

I shouldn't have just said "external parasites" though...I should have said "both lice and mites," or something to that effect.


----------



## Hykue (Aug 13, 2010)

I love information overload.  Really.  I thrive on it.  So although I appreciate that some people probably do walk away from cm's posts with their head spinning, and wondering what the "take-home message" was, I walk away thinking, "I'm glad someone is doing so much research and letting me know about it, because I don't have time to redo research other people have already done."  Doesn't mean I take it all as gospel, but if it sounds like fact rather than opinion, and it fits with my understanding of biology (I'm a biologist) then I add it to my growing goat knowledge.  I also appreciate hearing conflicting practices that ALSO work.  It's great!  Confusing sometimes, but great!

On that note, I'm pretty sure there's a typo here . . . because if there's not, then you're giving a goat nearly one quarter of its body weight in fenbendazole.

CM said:

_I'm also of the opinion that fenbendazole should be part of everyone's rotation and given (100mg/lb for 3 days in a row) at least once a year to treat/prevent tapeworm.
_

Just sayin' . . . you might want to revise that statement.  Gives me a great mental image though, of you actually replacing your goat with a smaller goat sculpted from a paste-type wormer.  And then trying to milk it.


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)

Hykue said:
			
		

> On that note, I'm pretty sure there's a typo here . . . because if there's not, then you're giving a goat nearly one quarter of its body weight in fenbendazole.
> 
> CM said:
> 
> ...


Good catch! -- 100mg/10lbs.  



EDIT:

Also just wanted to say....



> So although I appreciate that some people probably do walk away from cm's posts with their head spinning, and wondering what the "take-home message" was


...thanks a lot.  :/

(    -- believe me...I know...I've known for a long time that big giant posts tend to have about the first 3 sentences read before people bail..  Unless, of course, you're the person who is truly interested in the information.  That's OK, though...that's my target audience.   )


----------



## helmstead (Aug 13, 2010)

I agree with appreciating CM's posts, I do appreciate them...but sometimes I have to read them _really slowly _


----------



## PJisaMom (Aug 13, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I agree with appreciating CM's posts, I do appreciate them...but sometimes I have to read them _really slowly _


Agree!  And _I_ though _I_ was the only one who had to do that...


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)

Sorry...I'll try to type faster.  Maybe that'll speed things up.


----------



## helmstead (Aug 13, 2010)

SNORT!


----------



## jodief100 (Aug 13, 2010)

PJisaMom said:
			
		

> helmstead said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am certain that CM's advice saved the life of one of my does this summer. I don't care how long his posts are.  

I often glean bits of useful information when he rambles on that is useful in other situations.  I keep spreadsheet of medications, dosages and indicators and add things to it when I come across it.  You never know when it might need it.


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)

I'm not sure how to feel about all this..  It's like:

Sure, he's a windbag -- we all know that -- but some of the stuff he says comes in handy sometimes, provided you're willing to wade through the VOLUMES AND VOLUMES of nonsensical musings that so often accompany those sparse, tiny tidbits of useful information.

  

Wait, it just hit me...I know how to feel...humbly amused.


----------



## jodief100 (Aug 13, 2010)

CM:  
What I was trying to say was that in addition to giving good advice in regards to the specific situation at hand, there is often other advice in your posts that is useful in other situations.     

Don't worry, Melville is considered a great writer and he has sentences that cover three pages.


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 13, 2010)




----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> CM:
> What I was trying to say was that in addition to giving good advice in regards to the specific situation at hand, there is often other advice in your posts that is useful in other situations.


I tend to be...tangential, I guess.  

Find myself starting off like "Well, you might try Safe Guard because"...and ending with... "and _that's_ why we have low and high tides."

. .. ... .... 

I come by it honest, though..  My grandmother was REKNOWN for it..  My grandfather always said she was innoculated with a Victrola needle -- "the long-playing kind."





> Don't worry, Melville is considered a great writer and he has sentences that cover three pages.


----------



## Hykue (Aug 13, 2010)

I guess it did sort of sound like a backhanded compliment . . . not what I meant!  I was commenting that your posts contain a lot of information.  Information is what newbies like me need.  More is better!

As for being long-winded . . . you're not half as long-winded as me (I do TRY to keep myself in check) and you know at least 5 times as much as me.  Which I think means you're doing 10 times as well as I am.  The shorter, more concise posts are also wonderful, especially for an audience who is looking for a simple answer, but the longer posts that you tend towards give a fuller picture for those of us who have spent our whole lives asking, "why?" and "how?".  Like me.  I would say your posts tend to be primarily information, comfortably couched in context and anecdotes.  I really was just trying to say, "keep 'em comin'!"  I can't speak for anyone else, but it sounds like you have an appreciative audience.

Now, for the tangent . . . at least when you go off on a tangent, it's a talking tangent.  Apparently my great-aunt (?) (my grandma's sister) would often be reminded of a song during a conversation, and would proceed to sing the whole thing, from start to finish.  Loudly.  She was a reasonably good singer, but can you imagine?  For example, if she was of a different generation, she might have used the last word in the previous sentence as a springboard to singing "Imagine" by the Beatles, from start to finish.  Even if she was in conversation with only one other person.  You don't do that, do you?  (I hope not, or I've just insulted you . . .  )

Speaking of tangents, sorry we let this thread get so very, very off-topic!


----------



## TigerLilly (Aug 13, 2010)

FWIW, being a newbie to all this, I def don't mind the tangents! Some of us come on here to LEARN. If not for long-winded mentors, I'd know less than I do now. Yeah, I have to read slowly as well, but it's great that the info is here and coming from those with more experience than I have.
Besides, who am I to complain that when all is said & done that I can build a clock?


----------

