# Higher hay prices ?????



## Royd Wood (Jun 8, 2010)

There is talk of higher hay prices this year around the Southern Ontario area -$4.50 to $5 small and $40 to 45 for rounds whats the price for small squares and round bales going to be in your patch ???????


----------



## ksalvagno (Jun 8, 2010)

I won't know till the end of August. That is when our farmers cut their 2nd cut hay. They never give a price until they know what they have. Last year I paid $4.50 per bale for the small square bales. The year before, I paid $6 a bale because it was a bad year for hay and the good stuff was commanding a high price.


----------



## goodhors (Jun 8, 2010)

Starting to see ads for first cutting, just done.  2.50-3 dollars a bale, doesn't say what kind of hay.  Looks like there was plenty of first around here, if you cut before Memorial Day.  Usually have more weeds in first, so a bit cheaper than second or third if they can get it.  

Kind of damp, with intermittent showers the last few days, so that hay down has gotten pretty wet.

And then there are the folks like our neighbors who NEVER cut and bale first cutting before 4th of July when almost every bit of nutrients are gone.  Just  seedy, brittle, stemmy bale of weeds by then.  Lucky cows.  His second cutting is done near Labor Day or later.  Same kind of crop.  I mean WHY bother to collect that stuff?  He bales all around us, though always a bit late on each field.  Baling so late is money wasted, these bales are junk with such late cutting.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Jun 9, 2010)

goodhors said:
			
		

> And then there are the folks like our neighbors who NEVER cut and bale first cutting before 4th of July when almost every bit of nutrients are gone.  Just  seedy, brittle, stemmy bale of weeds by then.  Lucky cows.  His second cutting is done near Labor Day or later.  Same kind of crop.  I mean WHY bother to collect that stuff?  He bales all around us, though always a bit late on each field.  Baling so late is money wasted, these bales are junk with such late cutting.


Is he feeding it as dry cow hay or using it as bedding?


----------



## glenolam (Jun 9, 2010)

In New England hay is at least $4-5 bale for last year's 1st or 2nd cutting.  This year's first is $6 and up.

We felt lucky because yesterday we "scored" some _really_ nice 1st cutting from NY for $5/bale.


----------



## goodhors (Jun 9, 2010)

Since his herd of black cattle is usually pastured way behind the house, I am not sure of his breeding schedule.  There are various ages of young stock in with the cows.  Not like the herds where all the calves arrive to be admired at the same time.  I think he has over 50 head, various ages, just all black.  Not as nice as the adverised Registered Angus across the road.  He had a nice bull in there for a while, pricy animal.

He may put these bales out for chewing on, keeping the cattle busy, in cold weather.  Cows don't ever look bad, maybe this is "diet" hay to prevent them being fat?  Or he could be selling these poor bales.

Just watch them come down the road, cut the fields, and then eventually bale it up in big rounds, to haul away.  Some years it get rained on while down, takes longer to get baled.  Other years the cut stuff stays dry from start to finish.  Just never any "quality" to it, because it is cut so late.

Was a VERY different story when his Father-in-law was living.  The older gentleman had a weather predicting knee, and was a real farmer.  Those fields got cut early, when no rain was coming.  Dried, baled and hauled off in a timely fashion.  Got 3 cuttings each year.  We used to buy from him then, quality hay when done.  Not sure who is running things now, but sure is sloppy timing and a poor product when baled.  He PAYS to have the fields sprayed, fertilized, so WHY delay cutting so much?  We can't figure it out.  

Just one of those little irritating things you watch happen over and over, that easily could be done better.  If only they would let US run their lives!!  Ha Ha.


----------



## Ariel301 (Jun 9, 2010)

Hay prices where I am fluctuate wildly through the year. They are really high in winter and hit a low around mid-July that I wouldn't exactly call low. I live in the middle of a desert where hay doesn't grow, so it is trucked in from out of state. It ranges from $5-$15 for 120 pound bales of alfalfa or bermuda grass. Now that's cow-quality, not the nice stuff. The good bales of alfalfa are really only available through the feed store, and currently are at a low, low price of $12 apiece. :/ I don't know how people afford to feed horses here. 

There is talk here also that hay will go up later this year because gas prices are up. I keep calling my dealer to check prices, when it hits the lowest, I'm going to buy enough for a year. Since we don't have much rain, it does store well here, at least.


----------



## amysflock (Jun 9, 2010)

I've heard stories on our local National Public Radio station saying farmers here, especially in Eastern Washington, pretty much lost their first cuttings due to all the rain and cold we've had. So far we haven't seen higher prices, but we don't buy until July, normally. Our normal hay guy said he'd be keeping prices the same as the last two years ($3/bale for 45-50 lb rectangular bales), but that was a month or so ago, when we didn't think we'd have rain most of May and most of June (so far).


----------



## LavacaW (Jul 29, 2010)

Hay is finally back down to somewhat normal prices here after last summer's drought.  I had to pay as high as $8 for square bales and up to $90 for round bales.  Could have probably gotten it a little cheaper if I hadn't had a horse to feed as well as the cows.  Horse quality is always a little higher.  Right now we are down to $60 for round bales and $4.50 for squares in the field.


----------



## Hollywood Goats (Jul 29, 2010)

I pay $10.00 for a bale of coastal hay, I guess it is high but it is the cheapest in the area. :/


----------



## jhm47 (Jul 29, 2010)

I've been baling hay this past week.  Got nearly 400 large round bales so far, and probably another 100 to do today if I get out there and get at it.  Grass hay.


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm in Ontario (out by Belleville) and prices don't appear to be going up at all this year for grass hay and alfalfa/grass and straight alfalfa. We stick pretty well around the $2.50-$3.00/small square and $25-$30 for a 4x4 roundbale of alfalfa/grass (all suitable for horses).


----------



## Hollywood Goats (Jul 29, 2010)

wow I didn't realize I was over paying so much!! I really need to find a cheaper hay source!!


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 29, 2010)

Where are you located? Some states and provinces pay hugely different prices to us in Ontario. Some parts of Ontario even pay different prices.


----------



## Beekissed (Jul 29, 2010)

I look for second cut to be extremely high here as we are in a drought and most farmers won't even have a second cutting.  The first cut was not as good as normal and most guys didn't get it cut until it was already cured on the stem a little. 

 Then we got some sporadic rains and intense heat that turned all the baled hay left in the fields immediately brown/black with mold. 

I got some really nice first cut for $1.50 a bale but I normally feed second cut until early spring, then feed the first cut hay.  I'll be hard pressed to find second cut hay here at a decent price, I'm thinking.  Last year was a good year and I only found it for $3.95 per bale.


----------



## kstaven (Nov 17, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> I'm in Ontario (out by Belleville) and prices don't appear to be going up at all this year for grass hay and alfalfa/grass and straight alfalfa. We stick pretty well around the $2.50-$3.00/small square and $25-$30 for a 4x4 roundbale of alfalfa/grass (all suitable for horses).


You should try this side of the country for hay. We have seen "dairy grade" 4 x 4 up to $145.00 each.

Hay costs in BC are a killer, despite the fact crops where excellent this year.

Hate to think of the cost of organic feed in the future if we are stupid enough to allow GMO alfalfa in to the country.


----------



## jhm47 (Nov 17, 2010)

Let me preface my remarks by stating that I am no big fan of Monsanto and their predatory marketing practices.  That said, I also must grudgingly admit that all biotech corporations must make a profit in order to continue to exist.

As to the RR (roundup ready/tolerant) alfalfa debate, I hope it is cleared for use, and I will plant it if it becomes available.  Here is why:

1.  The other chemicals that are being used on alfalfa are much more toxic than Roundup.  I have used some of these "other" chemicals, and Roundup is far, far safer.

2.  If used correctly, Roundup requires less trips across fields, thus saving energy.

3.  I know that many are opposed to the RR technology because of the possibility of creating "super" weeds.  However, ALL herbicides have the potential to create resistance to them.  If used correctly, Roundup is no more or less susceptible than other chemicals.

4.  Cost---Roundup has become one of the lower-priced herbicides, since the patent expired.  This will enable farmers to keep the costs of producing hay lower.

5.  The possibility of cross-pollination is minimal.  Ever since the RR gene was released into our world in soybeans, corn, sugarbeets, and other crops, there has been NO evidence of cross pollination.  However, we must remember that once these genes are released, there is NO bringing them back.  

I know that others will disagree with me on this, but I have personally used these technologies, my friends and neighbors have used them, and in my opnion, Roundup is head and shoulders safer than the other chemicals that are used in place of it.  JMHO


----------



## freemotion (Nov 17, 2010)

RoundUp causes cancer.  I can't imagine what the "worse" chemicals do to you.


----------



## Beekissed (Nov 18, 2010)

The same, I would imagine.


----------



## kstaven (Nov 19, 2010)

As much as I understand the argument for use, I have to question it in an area like ours where you never see hay crops sprayed. Why introduce it in the first place and mess up our export markets that will not accept GMO feeds? What advantage is there in this case? And why take the risk of cross pollination when there is no clear advantage? Why take the risk of destroying the organic based agriculture markets that are well established here?

I have to ask this because when looking at regional difference and survival there are clearly two sides to this coin.


----------



## PureSnowChic (Nov 19, 2010)

Wow you guys are lucky. A small square of STRAW costs $12.50 here and hay is about $16.00!!!


----------



## greybeard (Oct 24, 2011)

A small conventional sq bale of Coastal Bermuda last year was $5 tops. Today--$10-12 everywhere around--providing you can find any at all. Large round bales last year around $50 ea. This year over $100/bale and scarce. 
On any given day, I see 5-10 18 wheelers loaded with round bales coming from Ark and La. 
I read a c/l ad not long ago where a Texas ranher had a barn full of his own hay for his cattle, and decided it was worth more on the open market so he put it all up for sale and bought rice straw out of La to feed his own cattle, still making a pretty good profit I imagine. 

It's almost cost effective to just feed cubed commercial feed instead of buying hay. 
My real worry, is that tho droughts come and go, prices rarely ever return all the way back to "normal".


----------



## Stubbornhillfarm (Oct 25, 2011)

Here in southern Maine, we have been paying between $35.00 and $75.00 for a round bale of second cut.  The $35.00 bale is small 4ft round and garbage hay.  The $75.00 is a 6ft round bail and very nice quality.  You can find it at all prices in between.  We have  no pasture, so we have to purchase hay.  We have purchased from several different sources in the past 7 months to try to find decent quality for a fair price.  So far, it is the $75.00 bail that is the winner.    Currently it last us about 3 weeks.


----------



## DonnaBelle (Oct 25, 2011)

Here a big bale of Alfalfa is $300.00.  A small square bale of Alfalfa is $16.00.

Texas is in even worse shape, no hay to be found unless it's trucked in.

Most ranchers are selling off their livestock in Texas.

I'm in East Central Oklahoma or "Green Country" and we have had some rain about 2-3 weeks apart.  Just enough to keep us green.  We are about 10 in. below normal.

DonnaBelle


----------



## 4bLonghorns (Oct 30, 2011)

here in Texas, we're having the worst drought on record...square bales are a bargain at $10.50 and round bales are going for $110 to $120 per bale.  Last year they were $60 per round bale and $6 per square.  More drought predicted


----------



## Queen Mum (Oct 30, 2011)

4bLonghorns said:
			
		

> here in Texas, we're having the worst drought on record...square bales are a bargain at $10.50 and round bales are going for $110 to $120 per bale.  Last year they were $60 per round bale and $6 per square.  More drought predicted


Yep,  I'd agree with that, but in Washington where it rains endlessly, a square is 18.00.  Although they weigh 4 times as much as a square here in TX.  The squares are just LOUSY here.


----------



## TigerLilly (Oct 30, 2011)

Earlier this year a regular size bale of coastal hay was going for about $7.50 & a bale that was a little larger was $8.50. Now, they dont even ask which size I want--I get the regular size and it's up to $8.75! Something else I just noticed is that it is not packed as tightly as before...seems like I'm getting less hay for more money!


----------



## greybeard (Oct 30, 2011)

TigerLilly said:
			
		

> Earlier this year a regular size bale of coastal hay was going for about $7.50 & a bale that was a little larger was $8.50. Now, they dont even ask which size I want--I get the regular size and it's up to $8.75! Something else I just noticed is that it is not packed as tightly as before...seems like I'm getting less hay for more money!


You probably are. Either i turned into Superman in the last couple of months, or a sq bale don't weigh nearly what it used to in some instances.... 
I believe some hay producers have figured out how to "stretch" their fields a bit. 
Who knew dead grass could be worth so much? 
(we all did--we just hoped it would never come to this)


----------



## 77Herford (Nov 1, 2011)

I know lots of people in Iowa that have made even small parts of their property into hay to sell in the south.  The price's are ridiculous.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Nov 1, 2011)

We have been paying $5 for a small square bale of an orchard/timothy grass mix(50-55lbs) and 45 for a round bale for the past 3 years.  We had a good hay crop this year so luckily it hasn't gone up. I thought it might go down, but with all the other expenses farmers have and fuel prices I guess I should be happy it has stayed the same.   Virginia

I did notice, since there was an abundance of hay in our area the bales were bigger this year, I didn't way the last load we got in, but I am pretty sure they were near 65 or 70lb small bales. So far the one I cut open and used had 20 slabs/flakes in it. It was quit a job getting them into the barn and stacking them.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Nov 1, 2011)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> Here a big bale of Alfalfa is $300.00.  A small square bale of Alfalfa is $16.00.
> 
> Texas is in even worse shape, no hay to be found unless it's trucked in.
> 
> ...


I am sorry, and it doesn't sound like it is expected to get any better over the winter months for you all.  I have been thinking of the south often and praying for a weather shift and rain for all of you.


----------



## 77Herford (Nov 1, 2011)

I too wish rain for the southern drought region.


----------



## mikecoen (Nov 11, 2011)

This is an interesting year for hay in Colorado.  We had the rare 4th cutting due to a month more of mild weather.  Small bales are disappearing at anything less than 7 dollars a bale and good stuff is over 10 for 60 pound bales.  I got some bottom bales and rained on stuff that is fine for my cows and paid an average of only $2 per 60 pound bale.  Some hay will show up on Craig's list for $6 and will be gone before you get a callback.  I bought 15% calf creep in small pellets so I can enrich the silage I made from my corn patches.  It looks like it will work well with the hay to get me to April.  First time I ever made silage though and I'm not sure I did the best, maybe started grinding it a little late and then the last of it was too dry 2 weeks later.


----------



## daisychick (Dec 19, 2011)

I have been getting calls from my horse friends in desperate need of hay, wanting me to sell them some.  I have just enough stock piled to feed my own animals and get me by until first cutting around June 1st.  I can't spare any for them.    Small bales are selling for $12 a bale here right now and they are usually at $6.


----------



## greybeard (Jan 8, 2012)

mikecoen said:
			
		

> This is an interesting year for hay in Colorado.  We had the rare 4th cutting due to a month more of mild weather.  Small bales are disappearing at anything less than 7 dollars a bale and good stuff is over 10 for 60 pound bales.  I got some bottom bales and rained on stuff that is fine for my cows and paid an average of only $2 per 60 pound bale.  Some hay will show up on Craig's list for $6 and will be gone before you get a callback.  I bought 15% calf creep in small pellets so I can enrich the silage I made from my corn patches.  It looks like it will work well with the hay to get me to April.  First time I ever made silage though and I'm not sure I did the best, maybe started grinding it a little late and then the last of it was too dry 2 weeks later.


"interesting" is a unique way of putting it Mike. Just downright strange in my book. I finally got some hay--square baled coastal and paid $11 each for them and they aren't all that good, but my ryegrass finally got plenty of rain and I'm feeding suplement and cubes so I'll get thru this winter ok. We've had lots of rain, and some really mild temps the last 5 weeks. The cows aren't getting a whole lot of nutrients from the rye, but they're fat and a whole lot better looking than some of my neighbors' stock and I didn't have to sell any off.  I am going to get rid of some of the Charlais tho and go ahead and make a full switch to Beefmaster with an eye on selling showcalves..


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jul 18, 2012)

*Alfalfa varies from $17.99 to $19.99 for a small square bale here. *


----------



## fair weather chicken (Jul 27, 2012)

just two weeks ago saw 9.00 a bale on cl. round bales of about 600 lbs. for 75.00 but we have had rain and things are greening up so we'll get a second cutting and maybe a third. that should bring some prices down. if it is in short supply fine, but having cut hay we always figured our costs, fuel, string ,wear and tear, labor and added 10 per cent. always were at 2.00 to 2.75 and we made money.


----------



## SheepGirl (Jul 27, 2012)

My hay guy charges $30 for a 4x4 timothy/grass mix round bale, which weighs about 400 lbs. He has other types of hay as well and some go for $40. But he said I could have any round bale for $25  (though I feel bad and pay him the extra $5 anyway). Small square bales on the other hand are $5 each and weigh 35-40 lbs, so it is soo much more economical to get round bales. I have a small flock (4 mature sheep and 2 lambs), but any bit of money saved is still good. A 4x4 round bale lasts me 6 weeks or so and I keep it in my garage so it stays green and nutritious and doesn't get sun bleached or wasted by the sheep.

WhiteMountainsRanch - where do you buy your hay?


----------



## greybeard (Jul 30, 2012)

I made a recreational trip down to the coast yesterday--about 130 miles. Newly cut and/or baled hay everywhere.  Lookin good here in E. Texas this year.


----------



## Symphony (Jul 30, 2012)

I'm not sure if we'll get a second cutting on our main field but on the old hay field we did get a second cutting and now the Cows are on it.  Hay prices are high though.


----------



## Stubbornhillfarm (Jul 31, 2012)

Around here, the first cut crop was huge!  Prices are coming down!    Our "best quality" hay guy usually sells his huge round bales for $75.00.  He has so much of it after first crop that he sold us 12 bales for $50.00 and told us that if we take another 30, he will only charge us $40.00!  We need this break.


----------



## mikecoen (Oct 25, 2012)

I just re-read some of these posts from last season.  Very dry summer in Colorado has led to high prices.  Currently, you will pay $10 to 13 for small bales.
You can't get hay for under $300 a ton, even for cow hay or goat hay.
I put up all the ensilage I could which is 22 barrels stuffed tightly, but for my two cows that means a 5 gallon bucketful daily for the pair in order to make it to April.  The supplemental rangecake or pellets plus some poor hay is what I hope will get us through to better times.  We did just get a rain which makes about 3 since last snowless spring!  I watered from a small well and kept them pretty well through the summer on a little over an acre of pasture per cow.  Calves due Christmas Eve.


----------



## Royd Wood (Oct 25, 2012)

mikecoen said:
			
		

> I just re-read some of these posts from last season.  Very dry summer in Colorado has led to high prices.  Currently, you will pay $10 to 13 for small bales.
> You can't get hay for under $300 a ton, even for cow hay or goat hay.
> I put up all the ensilage I could which is 22 barrels stuffed tightly, but for my two cows that means a 5 gallon bucketful daily for the pair in order to make it to April.  The supplemental rangecake or pellets plus some poor hay is what I hope will get us through to better times.  We did just get a rain which makes about 3 since last snowless spring!  I watered from a small well and kept them pretty well through the summer on a little over an acre of pasture per cow.  Calves due Christmas Eve.


Hi Mike
Yes its a post from last year which at the time $45 bucks a round bale (5 x 4) sounded like a tough winter ahead but move on to 2012 and its $100 a round and worse still nobody will sell because they know everyone in Feb / March will be running out so they are hording to get 130 bucks a bale ( asoles all of em) We are trying to get a truck load in from out west which will cost about the same but its the princaple eh. I'm over to an old soldiers place tomorrow as he has a barn full of 4 year old hay. Last year he was on about dragging it out and burning it so it would be cool if a few of us go round and buy the hay and clean up the barn for him. My Galloways will either eat it or bed down on it and a good few bucks in the bank for the old boy- win win


----------



## ourflockof4 (Oct 26, 2012)

I have been watching this thread for awhile, but with a lot different perspective then more of you. I produce hay for our own livestock, and also to sell. I always think its somewhat interesting that most people always list the price they paid by the bale, and not by the ton. Small square bales can range from as little as 40lbs to as much as 120lbs, round bales are between 400lbs to as high as 2200lbs each. Per ton price is a much more accurate number. 

Anyways thought, I don't think that a lot of people look at the true cost of production. I see people selling hay for less then what it cost the, to produce it. By the time you figure land cost or rent, fertalizer, lime, seed cost, fuel, equipment purchase/upgrade, equipment maintnence, and labor to do it, it isn't cheap. In general it cost more to produce an acre of hay then it does to produce an acre of corn or beans. Round bales are cheaper then small squares because they take less labor, and are just easier to produce. In my area less and less people are making hay. If it can't pencil out to make the same profit per acre as corn or beans then it's getting plowed under for row crops. 

I get a little flusterd with all the bleeding hearts whining about how farmers are ripping them off with these high hay prices. Really? At last years hay prices I was losing money to make hay. I could have rented my land out to the guy down the street for grain and had a set profit per acre. Has anyone priced equipment lately, or fertalizer, or LAND? I have close to $20k just in equipment to be able to make the small amount of hay that I do in a timely maner. Fert. is $700/ton, fuel is $4/gal (my tractor burns 4 gal/hr) land is $5-7k/ acre in my area, $12-20k/ acre in the corn belt. Would you want to have that much money invested just to HOPE to make a profit? You can't buy crop insurance on hay ground in most areas like you can grains. You also cant hedge your futures a year ahead to lock in a profit. All you can do making hay is spend half your summer making it and hope it's worth your time, and your wallet isn't empty when your done.

If you think it's expensive now, just wait. It needs to be in the $250-400/ton range to compete with current grain prices. If it isn't that high then guys will stop making it, and we all know how supply and demand works. And yes, hay should be more expensive in the winter then off the field in the spring. How do you think that hay gets from the field to someone's nice dry barn? How do you think that barn got there in the first place? Doesn't it seem reasonable to get a little more out of it when you have to pay for a barn (upkeep on it & property tax) just to store it for a couple months, plus the fuel and labor to get it there? I would much rather sell it off the wagon while I'm making it and not sell any in the winter.

Sorry for the rant. I'm sure there are other producers on here that will agree with me on this though. The average animal owner probably doesn't understand what it takes.

And just to clarify, I did have to buy hay this year myself. I sold half of my first cutting to a regular customer in small squares for a fairly cheap price off the wagon. Then the rain stopped and I didn't get anything off a new seeding field, and not much off the other. I have bought several loads of round bales for more then I sold my first cutting for. I never comlpaned about the price of what I had to buy if for or tried to beat them down on price. It was a good price and we both knew it. I have leaned a valuable lesson this year about selling hay though, make sure you keep a reserve before you sell a bale or be prepared to sell some livestock


----------



## Queen Mum (Oct 26, 2012)

Wow Ourflock.  That was an EYEOPENER.  I never knew that is what it takes to grow hay.  Now I do and I will never complain about hay prices again.


----------



## Southern by choice (Oct 26, 2012)

> I get a little flusterd with all the bleeding hearts whining about how farmers are ripping them off with these high hay prices. Really? At last years hay prices I was losing money to make hay. I could have rented my land out to the guy down the street for grain and had a set profit per acre. Has anyone priced equipment lately, or fertalizer, or LAND? I have close to $20k just in equipment to be able to make the small amount of hay that I do in a timely maner. Fert. is $700/ton, fuel is $4/gal (my tractor burns 4 gal/hr) land is $5-7k/ acre in my area, $12-20k/ acre in the corn belt. Would you want to have that much money invested just to HOPE to make a profit? You can't buy crop insurance on hay ground in most areas like you can grains. You also cant hedge your futures a year ahead to lock in a profit. All you can do making hay is spend half your summer making it and hope it's worth your time, and your wallet isn't empty when your done.


your barking up the wrong tree here flock of 4.... Nobody on here is complaining OR saying farmers are ripping them off! Everyone on here understands what's going on we are talking about the hardships it is causing all over the country! AND that includes you!!

Anyone in any kind of farming knows that only people outside of farming don't get it! 

Believe it or not we are the very people who care, our farmers are our most valuable asset in this country! They are under appreciated and undervalued. Nevr knowing if they are even going to come out even that year, or be further in the hole.I deal with the same kind of issues on my poultry farm(just way scaled down way,way,way scaled down). Land, care, feed, heat, etc to grow healthy disease free chickens. Raise them pastured and sell 6 month started pullets or prime 1 yr old layers and people honestly think that the bird should cost them $5. These are the ones who have no value for what you do. Goats are the same.

People out in the mid-west who have been hit so hard- the crop growers and the livestock owners...I think about them EVERYDAY!

Flock of 4- If you never hear it from anyone else just know I DO THANK YOU for what you do. I get angry too! and your right it is going to get worse.   For what it worth  for what you do. I know a long distance thank-you and hug doesn't pay the bills, it's more to say I do care!  

Sorry if I mis-spoke for any other BYH's on here!


----------



## meadow1view (Oct 26, 2012)

ourflockof4 said:
			
		

> If you think it's expensive now, just wait. It needs to be in the $250-400/ton range to compete with current grain prices. If it isn't that high then guys will stop making it, and we all know how supply and demand works. And yes, hay should be more expensive in the winter then off the field in the spring. How do you think that hay gets from the field to someone's nice dry barn? How do you think that barn got there in the first place? Doesn't it seem reasonable to get a little more out of it when you have to pay for a barn (upkeep on it & property tax) just to store it for a couple months, plus the fuel and labor to get it there? I would much rather sell it off the wagon while I'm making it and not sell any in the winter.
> 
> Sorry for the rant. I'm sure there are other producers on here that will agree with me on this though. The average animal owner probably doesn't understand what it takes.


The problem is most individuals do not speak from experience.  You clearly have run the numbers and demanded a return on investment (your hay enterprise) as anyone should.  I had a friend who decided to track all of his costs one year while making hay........he later told me he regretted collecting the numbers since he had finally come to realize that he had _never_ made any money all the years he baled and sold hay.  His off the farm income hid his losses well.

Hopefully others will understand that you and many like you are not laughing all the way to the bank.


----------



## Stubbornhillfarm (Oct 29, 2012)

ourflockof4,

I can only speak for myself,  that when I say "hay is expensive" or "whoot!,  we are getting a great deal on hay", that is just a matter of fact statement.  It certainly isn't stating that I think my hay guy is ripping me off.  It just is what it is.  Prices go up, prices go down.  Sometimes it is expensive and some times it isn't.  As others have pointed out, I don't believe that most people that raise animals and work hard think that any farmer of any kind is getting rich quick.  I think that most of us do understand the amount of work it takes in any type of farming...a lot! 

Best wishes!


----------



## Royd Wood (Oct 29, 2012)

Hi ourflockof4
Bleeding hearts - I dont think so. The point I was making is that it is wrong to tell customers you have no hay available now and hord it to sell in Feb / March for even more dollars. Thankfully some out there are honest but others who spot an opportunity to clean your clock are suddenly buying up hay from everywhere putting it in the barn and rubbing their grubby little hands waiting for animals to reach starving point and their owners begging for hay - they are now on a boycott list for future years.


----------



## jodief100 (Oct 29, 2012)

Ourflockof4-

Thank you for spelling it out so clearly.  I think all of us "knew"  this but sometimes you have to hear it.  I crunched the numbers on hay a few years back.  We were trying to decide if we should buy haying equipment or not.  We found it was MUCH cheaper for us to just buy hay.  We only had a few acres we could reasonably hay and the payback time was decades.  We frequently get $1.50-$2.00 a bale and I wonder how those people make any money.  I just bought 160 bales of third cutting mixed grass for $240 yesterday.  I know he can't be making any money but he seeemed glad to have someone take it.  I have 3 people I buy from and one is more expensive than the other two.  I make sure I always buy something from the expensive place because when the other two figure out it isn't worth it to them I want to have that business relationship with the third.  

I think all farmers experience this to some degree.  We have expenses and they are much more than Agribusiness who can buy feed by the hundred ton and sell birds, beef or pork by the thousands.  I hear all the complaints from "customers"  who expect to pay the same price for pastured poulty and eggs as they pay for battery chickens in Kroger.  

Plain and simple, Americans are SPOILED when it comes to food prices.  We pay a smaller percentage of our income on food than any other country and get better quality.  

I do have to agree with Royd on one thing.  Don't tell me you have no hay now and expect me to pay twice as much in January.


----------



## animalfarm (Oct 29, 2012)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> Hi ourflockof4
> Bleeding hearts - I dont think so. The point I was making is that it is wrong to tell customers you have no hay available now and hord it to sell in Feb / March for even more dollars. Thankfully some out there are honest but others who spot an opportunity to clean your clock are suddenly buying up hay from everywhere putting it in the barn and rubbing their grubby little hands waiting for animals to reach starving point and their owners begging for hay - they are now on a boycott list for future years.


Agreed.  It is what it is, supply and demand, but when they do exactly as you said then its game over. I too have a boycott list for future years. It also bugs the heck out of me when its first come first serve you pick it out of the field. Aside from the fact that there is no way to bring a tractor to fetch it, who in their right mind wants to drive for hours to find out 6 others got there before you and now the guy wants you to get in a bidding war for it. NO common decency at all.


----------



## kstaven (Oct 29, 2012)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> There is talk of higher hay prices this year around the Southern Ontario area -$4.50 to $5 small and $40 to 45 for rounds whats the price for small squares and round bales going to be in your patch ???????


This depends on if you want general grass or a top end high protein mix. As always you pay for what you get.

So with that said. General low end horse hay. $3.50 per bale. A top end dairy mix would work out to $6.75 Breaking prices down for those who buy 70 pounders.


----------



## kstaven (Oct 29, 2012)

ourflockof4 said:
			
		

> If you think it's expensive now, just wait. It needs to be in the $250-400/ton range to compete with current grain prices.
> The average animal owner probably doesn't understand what it takes.


I agree whole heartedly. What many people do not understand is that mixed in the equation is there are those who farm for a living and those who have outside jobs that subsidize the farm. Makes me sad when I see the former moving into the minority because they can't compete with the pricing of the later. Those that actually do it for a living have no safety net and need to get the prices. It is no surprise considering this that younger generations do not want to farm for a living. They know the sad truth of it all. Every year we lose more farm land to housing developments. What happens when the scales tip far enough that we are totally dependent on import food stocks? At that point the days of cheap food will really be over because other countries will have a real strangle hold on us all and out of greed be able to get what they demand.


----------



## ourflockof4 (Oct 30, 2012)

Just to clarify though, I wasn't trying to call anybody out with my post. I was more just trying to show people the other side of the coin.

Cheap hay can be good, you just have to know what you have and how to utilize it properly. A lot of the people that sell hay for $1-2/bale have never spread any fertalizer on any of their fields. That may sound like a good thing to some people, but it actually isn't. Just like anything else plant's need certain chemicals and minerals to be healthy. On average the following nutrients with be removed per ton of hay on a dry matter basis, Nitogen#40, Phosphate #13, Potasium #60, and Sulfur #5, along with a lot of other micro nutrients. If you don't replentish your soil then it will not have enough of the mineral to make a healthy plant. If your plants are not healthy they will lack a good mineral content. Your plants lack mineral content when you cut them to make hay and guess what, your hay lacks the proper mineral content also. You feed the hay to your animals so they can get the nurishment they need, but it just isn't there. So how do you tell if the hay you are getting has the right mineral makeup? You can't just look at hay and tell whats all in it, unless your looking at a complete hay test report, and how any of us actually get them or would even know how to read one. You can ask the guy your buying it from how long it's been since he spread potash. If he gives you a look like "spread what" then he hasn't put fert. on in a while (unless his soil has a very high natural accurance of potasium)

Believe it or not though, cows don't really need all that great of hay as long as you have a good mineral program. The mineral blocks from the farm store don't really count as a good mineral program. There are lots of guys that feed nothing but corn stalks to bred cows and do just fine as long as they have a protien suppliment. Ther are quite a few variables, but for the most part cows only need 10-12% protein hay. Anything more then that just goes out the back.

I'll shut up now because I'm getting way off topic here. I'm sure there are people on here with way more knowledge of all of this then me anyhow.

Back on topic though, there was an add the other day I noticed for $100 for a 4x5 (800lbs) mixed grass second cutting. Thats $250/ton which is on the low end of the local auctions. Last week they averaged $320-480/ton at 3 different auctions.


----------



## Royd Wood (Oct 30, 2012)

Great post ourflock
I'm still short for this winter but at least I made 180 round bales first cut - our first time at doing our own hay out here. I cut with a 1980s mower and row with a 1950s rake using a 1966 David Brown tractor then local guy came in and roundbailed it for me at $8 a bale - just a shame I had to start feeding hay from July. I have a bailer for small bales which I was going to use for second and third cut but it never grew


----------



## bonbean01 (Oct 30, 2012)

Our regular local hay guy did not charge more this year for hay, but with higher fuel costs we expected it would be higher.  Nothing like a good hay guy, and he really likes that we don't mind picking them up off the field as his baler spits them out.  He's getting older and not in the best of health and this is something he is able to do...super nice guy!  This year we tried a few round bales too and will see how that works out...easier on our backs!  Not sure if the round bales are easier for him too to bale, but he does both.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 2, 2012)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> Yes its a post from last year which at the time $45 bucks a round bale (5 x 4) sounded like a tough winter ahead but move on to 2012 and its $100 a round and worse still nobody will sell because they know everyone in Feb / March will be running out so they are hording to get 130 bucks a bale ( asoles all of em) We are trying to get a truck load in from out west which will cost about the same but its the princaple eh. I'm over to an old soldiers place tomorrow as he has a barn full of 4 year old hay. Last year he was on about dragging it out and burning it so it would be cool if a few of us go round and buy the hay and clean up the barn for him. My Galloways will either eat it or bed down on it and a good few bucks in the bank for the old boy- win win


This time last year Royd, we saw those same prices-$15 sm sq bales, and $100-$140 round bales--all from out of state--and by Feb, saw some from Canada. Baled rice straw from Louisiana was being fed and it wasn't cheap either. 
Ya know what? This year, there's good  local hay everywhere down here, and tho  the prices did drop, they did not go back to pre-drought levels. 
Why not?
Cause they are also shipping lots of local hay northward and getting big bucks for it--just like people from the north demanded high prices from us  for their hay last year. 
It will be a long time before we see $3/sm sq bale here again--maybe never if there is a drought anywhere. 

But, I don't blame the hay producers either. Hard enough to make a $ on hay when fertilize is still sky high, and after any drought, weeds are a big problem which means weed control costs as well. Army worms=insect control costs too. 
Believe me--ain't nobody gettin rich in the hay business--it all evens out in the end to an average.
And I was lucky last winter was very very mild and I got a good bit of ryegrass up, so I didn't need a lot of hay and didn't have to sell off stock, but would have paid the high prices and been glad to get any hay at all if Feb had been a bitterly cold and dry month.
Hording?
C'mon. Do you folks sell your cattle by which month it is or according to what the prices are? If you've ever waited a few weeks or a couple months till steer or replacement prices went up, then I guess you were hording too.
Think about it.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 3, 2012)

greybeard said:
			
		

> Hording?
> C'mon. Do you folks sell your cattle by which month it is or according to what the prices are? If you've ever waited a few weeks or a couple months till steer or replacement prices went up, then I guess you were hording too.
> Think about it.


Hmmmm. Good point


----------



## Royd Wood (Nov 3, 2012)

greybeard said:
			
		

> Royd Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You make some good points here Greybeard and just to make matters worse there is a shortage of grass seed for 2013 with some types not even available and the prices have soared. We need to at least overseed some fields and I have a 30 acre crop field that needs sowing to pasture. 
The point I was trying to make was it is unfair to have hay dealers NOT hay makers buying up everything then hoarding the hay. Anyone with animals has to prepair for winter and if we dont make enough of our own hay then we need to purchase before winter comes - we cant keep animals and hope that maybe somewhere in Feb we might be able to get some.  
The auctions and slaughter houses are doing brisk business, lets hope everyone everywhere has a good year in 2013 but unlikely


----------



## greybeard (Nov 3, 2012)

Aghh--hay brokers. 
Some are good and fair--some are like stock brokers--price manipulators.  
You guys must have been in drought this year--we went thru the same thing on seed last spring after 2011's drought. Some distributors didn't bother ordering certain seed claiming they didn't think their customers would pay the higher prices for it. We had a fairly mild summer here with rain adequate, so our usual winter forages seed is plentiful and fairly priced. I've seen winter wheat/ryegrass mix advertised for $38//cwt. I have ryegrass already down 3 weeks, but till today, didn't get a drop of rain on it. We'll see if today's rain was too late or not.

I want to buy some more cows or heifers, but prices right now are just too high around here--unlike last winter when everyone was downsizing due to a hay shortage. If I'd known then what I know now...............


----------



## animalfarm (Nov 3, 2012)

I bought seed early summer when things first started drying up and forutunately I didn't use up all I had from 2 years ago. Also, found some sacks of seed of some sort that are ancient from a previous owner, but its all going out to pasture regardless, along with oats and anything else I was able to scrounge.  Got a big bag of turnip and kale at an auction. Its surprising what will sprout sometimes. We did get some late fall growth in the hayfields and it went to seed as well. So hopefully something will be there for next year. Just don't need another drought.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 3, 2012)

Heh heh--I found a couple old 55 drums of ryegrass and oat seed my father had put in the top of the barn and I  put 'em in the hopper to broadcast em out a few years ago. It wouldn't sling.
Nothin but chaff and hulls--bugs had eaten all the seed germ.


----------



## animalfarm (Nov 4, 2012)

I suspect that could be what happens here as well, but the stuff has to be dumped somewhere and I am going round the fields anyways so I figure what the heck.


----------

