# Soft abdominal lump on doeling--UPDATE



## michickenwrangler (Mar 10, 2010)

Sable is my 6 week old LaMancha doeling. She had a urinary tract infection 2 weeks ago and as a side affect, had a small tumor over where her umbilical cord had been. Antibiotics cleared both up. She's been standing hunched over the last few days lately. When I went to bottle feed her this evening, I noticed that the lump is now golf-ball sized and soft. Again, it is over her navel. When she had the UTI, the vet said to put a warm compress over the area, but by the time I get out to the barn, the warm cloth is always cold, so I just never tried after the first few attempts. I'll be on the phone with the vet tomorrow.

Anyone have an idea what this is?

She's also eating and drinking water, although she doesn't want to take the bottle. I did let her nurse on her mom for a bit before I milked Clover (her mom) this evening.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 10, 2010)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> Sable is my 6 week old LaMancha doeling. She had a urinary tract infection 2 weeks ago and as a side affect, had a small tumor over where her umbilical cord had been. Antibiotics cleared both up. She's been standing hunched over the last few days lately. When I went to bottle feed her this evening, I noticed that the lump is now golf-ball sized and soft. Again, it is over her navel. When she had the UTI, the vet said to put a warm compress over the area, but by the time I get out to the barn, the warm cloth is always cold, so I just never tried after the first few attempts. I'll be on the phone with the vet tomorrow.
> 
> Anyone have an idea what this is?
> 
> She's also eating and drinking water, although she doesn't want to take the bottle. I did let her nurse on her mom for a bit before I milked Clover (her mom) this evening.


Take a temperature..  If it's elevated, I'd suspect the knot to be an infection.  If not, I'd suspect it to be an umbilical hernia.

Bear in mind, though, that the absence of a temperature doesn't always rule out infection.  The value of taking the temp is if you see it elevated, at which point you can be relatively assured that there is an infection...  Sorta ruling it _in_, versus ruling anything _out_.


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## michickenwrangler (Mar 10, 2010)

Frm what I've looked up, it sounds like an umbilical abcess.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 10, 2010)

If I had one I suspected of navel ill, I'd probably do 1/2ml of Bio-Mycin 200 SQ 1x/day for 10 days.  I've never had occasion to treat for this before, but based on what I've read, that's what I'd do.

That's just me, though.

If you suspect it's joint ill, definitely get her on _some kind_ of antibiotic regimen right away.  These apparently go from abcess to septicemia pretty quickly, just due to the nature of the abcess being pretty much right on top of what was, a very short time ago, a "main line" into her bloodstream.

ETA:  I should probably point out that some people strongly recommend against using tetracyclines in growing kids, as it may interfere with bone development..  Thing is, that's what I've seen recommended for navel ill...sooooo...yer pretty much not gonna see navel ill unless you're looking at a wee little kid.


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## michickenwrangler (Mar 12, 2010)

Took Sable to the vet today. She has an umbilical hernia and an infected "Yoo-rake-us" (shoulda asked for spelling--probably spelled "eurachus"). She's on antibiotics, but if it doesn't close up on its own, we'll probably put her down.

I'm trying to stay optimistic.


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## michickenwrangler (Apr 2, 2010)

Sable was on antibiotics for two weeks, we were happy because the swelling went down and her infection cleared up. She's eating and playing, butting heads with brother, jumping on him and pushing him out of the way when she gets jealous of the attention he's getting, nibbling on my chin (ouch!) when I pick her up.

However, even with her improved attitude, the last two days her hernia has gotten larger. The vet's coming out to castrate brother on Friday (4/9) and I'll speak with him then.

Does anyone have experience with abdominal hernias? Is it hereditary? Will she be able to be bred? Is this going to be a chronic problem? I know there is a risk of strangulation but is it fairly common?

She's such a sweet goat and we would hate to put her down. When I mentioned to DH and DD about eating her, they both started crying. Friend suggested I take her to slaughterhouse in fall and ask them to label it "ground buffalo" since we do buy ground buffalo once in awhile and it is leaner than beef.

What to do?


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 2, 2010)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> Does anyone have experience with abdominal hernias? I know there is a risk of strangulation but is it fairly common?


Strangulation?  I'm sure that I'm misinterpreting the term- what is this referring to?  I'm trying to imagine the way in which a goat would strangle on it's hernia and cannot...   Maybe someone can point out the obvious for me.


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## helmstead (Apr 2, 2010)

Its when the intestines slip through the hernia, fill with gut matter and are unable to reenter the abdomen, swell, cut of blood circulation and die.


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## ksalvagno (Apr 3, 2010)

I don't know if they do this in goats at all but what about a hernia belt? Shouldn't the opening close up with time?

In alpacas when there is an umbilical hernia, we wrap it somehow. Some people use the ace bandages for people and wrap it around the middle. I have a hernia belt that someone designed specifically for alpacas. It works like a charm. You do have to check it every couple to few days to make sure everything is ok.


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## helmstead (Apr 3, 2010)

In FOALS we had to surgically correct them...never experienced one on a goat yet...


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## michickenwrangler (Apr 3, 2010)

Vet said that surgery would be an option but it would run $450-600. How many of you would do it? I could always put it on a credit card and the vet does give a 10% discount if paid in full.

He's coming out 4/9 to do shots & coggins on the horse and to castrate Bear the buckling (DH says he has things to do that day and won't be able to help ... I wonder why? ). I plan to call him on Monday.

Again, she's active and friendly, good appetite, bouncy and playful, butting heads with the other kids. She's a little thinner than her brother, but I think he's just HUGE. He's a grandson to Lost Nation's big buck and his maternal Uncle is another HUGE buck.

I'm just afraid that even if it does close up or has surgery, breeding her would put stress on it and I'd lose her anyway.


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## ksalvagno (Apr 3, 2010)

That is one of those things only you can decide. Some people will say definitely do it and some will say not worth it.

I think I would ask the vet more questions. Maybe find out the chances of it opening back up for any reason. I wouldn't think that it would but never had the problem on a goat before. I would ask if you could wrap it or something to hold everything in place and see if it heals.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 3, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Its when the intestines slip through the hernia, fill with gut matter and are unable to reenter the abdomen, swell, cut of blood circulation and die.


Yikes!  It's no wonder you're concerned.  Maybe your vet could discuss with you the efficacy of non-surgical options before making a decision?  That's a bummer....


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## Roll farms (Apr 3, 2010)

I'll pop in and say, "I wouldn't do the surgery"....
This is my 'business' and it wouldn't be cost effective, might not work or have complications, and would be a risk of passing to her kids....

Sometimes, when decisions like that have to be made, it's HARD to be a farmer.


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## michickenwrangler (Apr 4, 2010)

Honestly, that's where I'm leaning. I've already spoken with my daughter about it and she understands why we may have to euthanize Sable (she still doesn't want to eat her). Goats for me are more of a hobby, but still, there comes a point. I haven't spent that much on my champion endurance horse of champion bloodlines (she won Region 13 championship endurance and her sire has 9 national titles in Saddleseat Park) for any medical reason. 

Still, we'll see what Doc says Friday.


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