# FDA taking antibiotics off the shelf 1/1/16 UPDATE AND FDA LINK



## animalmom (Dec 5, 2015)

Just read in this quarter's ADGA News and Events, that starting January 1, 2016 the FDA will make all antibiotics formerly available over the counter and make them prescription.  This includes penicillin, tetracycline, stuff like Albon and Sulmet and udder infusions like Today and Tomorrow.  It is not suppose to include deconquinate or rumensin as that is in medicated feeds for controlling coccidia.

Has anyone heard about this?  I could say useless things like I'm LIVID, but that would lead to rants regarding the intrusion of the government into daily life, and frankly I can take better care of myself and my livestock than some bureaucrat sitting in Washington who doesn't know chicken droppings about me.

How much do you want to be it is another overreach trying to prevent someone from getting something that could be used for something else just like cold medication where you have to go ask the pharmacist for the box that has more than 10 capsule just incase you wanted to make Meth, or you can't get real Pyrex because someone might use it to cook up Meth.  I'm sick of being punished for what someone else does.

I guess I'm stocking up on what I use now... just think you will now have to depend on your Vet for your antibiotics.  Nanny State, Mother may I.  

(gee, do you think I am ticked off, or what?)


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## chiques chicks (Dec 5, 2015)

From what I found, this regulation applied to feed antibiotics, not injectables. It appears to be an attempt to keep antibiotics out of the food chain to help in curbing antibiotic resistant infections in humans.

Just my (uneducated) reading of the rules.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 5, 2015)

Yes, I had heard of this and from what I understand it will be in stages over a period of time then everything will be removed.

I agree with you @animalmom  like everything else, we are in a nanny state... more and more stupid laws.

The thing that gets me is that all this is being blamed on the farmers and how this has caused this resistance. The data is NOT THERE!
It really has to do more with physicians writing scripts when they do not need to... then stupid (yes, I said STUPID) people not taking full courses, saving them up etc and they have put themselves in a serious position. 
Overuse and improper use of anti-biotics in the "human" medical treatment has caused these issues. 

I cannot have anti-biotics yet several DRs. over the past 2 years wanted to put me on one... when I explained my condition they said- oh well we will do a low dose. 

UMMMM a low dose can still kill me. 

Now I look at them and tell them they should better educate themselves on one of the fastest growing superbugs in the US.
I asked one doctor- "ok, Than are you willing to pay my $40,000 medical bill when this puts me in the hospital?"


From the small producer side-

Then you do have the small farmer that their food may never hit the "market" but throw an antibiotic at their animals as a guess... half the time not knowing the dosage or the actual course for a particular type of AB. 

Few look at FARAD to see withdrawal info... 

On the other side- when a goat goes down is running a fever you have a short window of time to treat... when the vet can't get there because they have so many other emergencies your goat will die if not treated. I know given a sick goat or a sick horse the vet is going to go to the sick horse first. Usually the vet will say start blah blah blah til I can get there... with these new laws there is the possibilty that you will only be given individual doses. 
Yeah- hows that gonna work.



Rant over.


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## Baymule (Dec 5, 2015)

Obviously we are incredibly stupid and need the governments permission to treat our animals. And we get the added bonus of paying more for the privilege of regulation nation ruling our lives.


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## babsbag (Dec 6, 2015)

My understanding is what @chiques chicks said, it is only antibiotics in feed and the feed producers have agreed and will no longer be making feed containing antibiotics. HOWEVER, if you live in CA, like lucky me, as of 2017 there will be NO over the counter antibiotics available at all. CA is so proud of their new law and the fact that they are the toughest one in the nation.   Oh I surrender dear Govt. You are absolutely right,  I am too stupid to know when my animal is sick. I must have you hold my hand and direct my every thought and action.   

Bad attitude for a future dairyman. Oh Well. Fortunately I have a good vet that will work with me and I will retire ( a second time) before she does.


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## babsbag (Dec 6, 2015)

@animalmom  Was that in the news letter that comes in the mail? I would love to read it.


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## animalmom (Dec 6, 2015)

@babsbag, the paragraph that dropped the bombshell was at the bottom on the enclosed letter from the district director.  Here is the paragraph:

"Additionally, Board members were apprised of the FDA's requirement that beginning January 1, 2016, all antibiotics formerly available over the counter at most feed stores and online, will now become prescription-only.  This includes such commonly used items as penicillin, tetracycline (Bio-Mycin, LA 200), spectinomycin (Spectam Scour-Halt), sulfas (Albon, Sulmet) and udder infusions such as Today and Tomorrow.  It does not include ionophores such as deconquinate or rumensin which are found in "medicate" feeds used for control of coccidia."

I have not seen anything under the banner of ADGA itself informing of this FDA change, just that paragraph from the district critter.  The way it is worded sounds like I would not be able to run into Tractor Supply and grab a bottle of penicillin but that I'd have to go through my vet... who like most vets are rarely available for phone consult and being in Texas hold the power to control prescriptions to the point of not giving you a prescription that you can then purchase the drug where you want.  In Texas you have to buy from the vet.

This is just weasel.


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## babsbag (Dec 6, 2015)

I didn't see that letter, or I don't get that letter; not sure which.

That is very interesting as I have been following this closely and done quite a bit of research on it. I have seen no reference to this other than in animal feed, and then in CA. The FDA Animal Feed Directive doesn't take place until Dec. 2106. I even Googled it again last night and couldn't find any reference to it; the law in CA will limit all OTC antibiotics but that isn't until Jan 2018.

I have to buy from a vet most of the time too. But there are some that she doesn't carry and she lets me get them elsewhere, but seldom mail order.

I have to really wonder if that information is accurate especially since CA is touting the "toughest laws in the nation....much stronger than FDA rules" . I wouldn't panic yet...but then again I might. With kidding season just around the corner a new bottle of Pen G and Biomycin will be going into the cabinet. I am very very anti drug but if I have to make the choice I often don't have the luxury of waiting for a vet, or it is a weekend...Goats die quickly at times.


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## chiques chicks (Dec 6, 2015)

I have never used antibiotics on my poultry, not medicated feed ( I have a breed that can't use medicated feed). Now that I have goats, I'm sure at some point I will need antibiotics, and I will use them as needed.

I rarely take antibiotics myself, the last time I took them was a major impalement, but was a good, reasonable reason.  They have there place.

My question is, what is their shelf life?


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## Bossroo (Dec 6, 2015)

@#!$%^&*()+ know it all  do gooders   ... The liberal ( so called progressives ) who always operate on the premise of  "we know what is best for you, then let you pay for it."      Most Vets. are for it as they get a kick back for every prescription that they write.  Get ready to bury many an animal that could have been easily saved by early treatment.  Oh wait...  you will ( at least in cal. now )  you  have to haul it to a rendering plant or have it creamated as one can no longer bury it even on your own land.   Think $$$$$$$$ out of your pocket and eventually puts you out of the livestock business and / or self sufficiency!


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## Southern by choice (Dec 6, 2015)

Yep another step to drive out the small producer as the large "commercial" producers have vets on premise 24/7 as it is. Big corporate farms will take over the US. 

Just another step... control the food- control the people.


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## Baymule (Dec 6, 2015)

I have read in several places that antibiotics really never expire. The expiration dates are just goobermunt regulations. So if you stocked up and stored them well, you might be able to save that animal instead of waiting on the vet that shows up after the animal is already dead. And if antibiotics really do expire and it kills your animal, well, it would be dead anyway.....


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## animalmom (Dec 9, 2015)

I contacted my ADGA District critter who started this mess, and lo and behold she claims she was wrong.  Here is the link to the FDA website that talks about what they are doing... banning antimicrobials from animal feed, which goes into effect December 2016.  The link doesn't seem to say anything about over the counter antibiotics, just antimicrobials in the feed, excluding those for Cocci.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/ucm448871.htm#top

Seems the do-gooders out there think animal feed is the agent that is causing the hospitals superbug problem.  Oh what would we ever do without these "best and brightest" looking out for our every moment.

Sorry for the panic folks, but I'm tired of someone I don't know telling me what the #&^ to do with my life and furthermore just how the *^%% to do it.  Sheesh.


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## Latestarter (Dec 9, 2015)

Whoa.... (somewhere up above I read) you mean in TX, I can't go to the local TSC and get basic AB meds for my animals? I have to have a vet prescription? Anyone here know about LA since I plan to live within reach of that state?


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## babsbag (Dec 9, 2015)

@Latestarter The ADGA district person was wrong.  Only med. feed and not until Dec. 2016. Unless you live in CA and then all bets are off.


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## babsbag (Dec 9, 2015)

Bossroo said:


> @#!$%^&*()+ know it all  do gooders   ... The liberal ( so called progressives ) who always operate on the premise of  "we know what is best for you, then let you pay for it."      Most Vets. are for it as they get a kick back for every prescription that they write.  Get ready to bury many an animal that could have been easily saved by early treatment.  Oh wait...  you will ( at least in cal. now )  you  have to haul it to a rendering plant or have it creamated as one can no longer bury it even on your own land.   Think $$$$$$$$ out of your pocket and eventually puts you out of the livestock business and / or self sufficiency!



If I can't bury it why does my vet let me bring it home? When did that happen? I live in CA.


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## Latestarter (Dec 9, 2015)

OK... went back to see... it was a compounding with the original concern:



animalmom said:


> ...The way it is worded sounds like I would not be able to run into Tractor Supply and grab a bottle of penicillin but that I'd have to go through my vet... who like most vets are rarely available for phone consult_ and being in Texas hold the power to control prescriptions to the point of not giving you a prescription that you can then purchase the drug where you want.  In Texas you have to buy from the vet._
> ...


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## alsea1 (Dec 9, 2015)

I do believe that I mentioned this move a long time ago.
It means that many animals will die needlessly.   Many of us know when an animal needs medicated and with what. But after this legislation begins to take affect you will have to have a vet prescribe the med and get the med thru a vet. We all know how expensive that can be. 
Its foolish. This is aimed at trying to keep medicated meat and eggs out of the food we eat. The large factory farms have vets on staff. The meat and eggs and dairy will not change. 
My only advice is bone up on natural cures. Try to cull out the sickly and breed for natural healthy survivors.

You cannot really stock up on these meds as most have a shelf life.
Good luck to us all.


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## samssimonsays (Dec 9, 2015)

We can buy very little of any kind of med in MN. I have to go across to Wisconsin or North Dakota to get vaccines to give to my animals myself. Which are required to be given yearly even though things like Rabies vacs are good for 4 years... BS. So everything I do I have to go through a vet for the most part as it is. I am sure in a day not too far away what was thought was happening originally will be placed into affect.... The government just can't leave well enough alone.


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## sadieml (Dec 9, 2015)

Typically "shelf life" is the point at which the efficacy of the drug may begin to wane, and they are usually grossly exaggerated.  My pediatrician (I was his 1st new baby check-up ) gave my Mama several bottles of out-of-date penicillin (shhh) because we couldn't afford to buy it and my sister needed it.  He said it never goes "bad", just slowly weakens a bit, and he was one doc who did not over-prescribe ABs. Fifty years ago he was saying "only when they're necessary", otherwise let your immune system do it's job.  Great doctor, man, those were the days.


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## mysunwolf (Dec 9, 2015)

Baymule said:


> I have read in several places that antibiotics really never expire. The expiration dates are just goobermunt regulations. So if you stocked up and stored them well, you might be able to save that animal instead of waiting on the vet that shows up after the animal is already dead. And if antibiotics really do expire and it kills your animal, well, it would be dead anyway.....



So I recently chatted with a cattle friend of mine about antibiotic longevity... Expired antibiotics will almost never do harm to an animal (unless they have an allergy to begin with), but most do lose their effectiveness over time because the compounds break down. Kept in the fridge they last a good deal longer than the expiration date. Not sure about freezing as most have a desired temp range for storage. But one thing I can tell you is I will be stocking up.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 9, 2015)

@mysunwolf you don't need to stock up yet!

Everyone needs to re-read this post!!!!



animalmom said:


> I contacted my ADGA District critter who started this mess, and lo and behold she claims she was wrong.  Here is the link to the FDA website that talks about what they are doing... banning antimicrobials from animal feed, which goes into effect December 2016.  The link doesn't seem to say anything about over the counter antibiotics, just antimicrobials in the feed, excluding those for Cocci.
> 
> http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/ucm448871.htm#top
> 
> ...


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## mysunwolf (Dec 9, 2015)

Goat Whisperer said:


> @mysunwolf you don't need to stock up yet!
> 
> Everyone needs to re-read this post!!!!



Ah, I understand now. The atmosphere in the country is increasingly anti-agriculture, so I always worry a little. Guess we're off the hook for a while on this one, though.


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## Latestarter (Dec 9, 2015)

It's not that the country is anti agriculture... In fact, a growing number of people in this country are becoming more and more aware, and forming/using farmers markets and local sourced foods, seeking out NON GMO foods, and going all organic if they can. Many of those are creating small at home garden areas or moving to places where they can grow their own food. It's what I'm doing. This has caused ripples in big agribusiness and major chemical companies (pesticides needed for agribiz). They own the FDA and congress (along with the military industrial complex and all other big business in general).

The laws you see being passed or touted as "good for the economy" or to "save people from threat of major illnesses" such as bird flu and swine flu, and all the other BS, are to try and STOP small farms and personal farms from existing. To make personal ownership of your food sources as near to impossible as they can. When the govt controls the food, they control you. You may have noticed it's becoming more difficult to get heritage/non GMO seeds and plants from nurseries and such. And when you can, they're becoming more expensive. Those companies are getting bought out by the monsanto's of the world and being taken away... a little at a time.  We're now getting to the point where individuals are swapping seeds for plants that are no longer available otherwise.

Life is getting more and more scary.


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## babsbag (Dec 9, 2015)

If small farms and family farms were on the hit list why does the USDA provide loans to beginning ranchers and farmers and small producers, like me? Not sure that I can really get on board with your conspiracy theory.   

I do however agree that there are way too many laws to "protect us". 

As far as the antibiotics, for now CA is the only state that is banning the over the counter sale of antibiotics in 2017. The FDA is only banning antibiotics in feed and I can agree with that. It is being used to encourage growth in animals, not fight disease. Even the manufactures of the drugs agree to pull them from the feed. It is called the Animal Feed Directive if anyone cares.


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## Latestarter (Dec 10, 2015)

<--always a conspiracy theorist... some things aren't as obvious as others. Chess to a whole nuther level...


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## sadieml (Dec 10, 2015)

I have only become a conspiracy theorist over the last few years.  I mean everybody knows the "lone-gunman" tale about JFK is a lie, but I mean bigger.  @Latestarter  Have you noticed how difficult it is to find drink (including juice and so-called kids' drinks like SunnyD, etc.) that
don't have sucralose in them.  I know they say it's a calorie thing, but JuicyFruit gum?  Sucralose, aspertame, acesulfame, there are a half-dozen artificial sweeteners out there, and it's almost impossible to find any prepackaged consumable without at least one of them in it.  I don't trust all of these "artificial" everythings.  I admit I can't see a clear picture on "Why?" but there is definitely something fishy going on.

Anyone remember a B-movie called "They Live"?  I'm just sayin'...


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## babsbag (Dec 10, 2015)

Some of my best friends believe as you do and no harm no foul. I just tend to look on the other side and if the laws are going to be there then I spend my time figuring out what I can change to make it work. I have no desire to be a politician so I support the ones I like and let them to my bidding. Do I agree, most of the time I don't, but until I am personally ready to throw my hat into the political ring (never) there isn't much more I can do. My personal beliefs and what I was taught to believe in keep me sane.

The USDA and the Farm Service Agency has been critical to the building of my dairy. The support I received for this project far surpasses my wildest dreams. And there is a good possibility  that I may be buying some land with their help as well. I have a hard time right now viewing them as evil and out to get me. 

UC Daivs still provides necropsies to backyard flocks for free. Again, doesn't sound like they are out to get the small farmer.


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## chiques chicks (Dec 10, 2015)

I'm not really a conspiracy theory guy, but I'm not a fan of government intrusion and regulation.

As far as heirloom seeds and seed exchanges, they are nothing new. First saw them in the mid seventies when, as a ugh school student, I picked up my first issue of Mother Earth News. It was different then that it is now.

Barter and reuse had been a part of my life for half a century, generally along the lines of paying it forward. 

To me it's just a new generation realizing how things should be.


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## sadieml (Dec 10, 2015)

Don't worry @babsbag, I'm not completely 'round the bend.  I know not everyone is out to get us, even govt. types.  It's just that more and more things are happening these days without anyone noticing and that worries me a little.  My faith keeps me from plunging headlong into some paranoid delusion.  Our freedoms get eaten-up and the first steps are always small and inconspicuous.  Like Madalyn Murray O'Hair shoving God right out of the classroom, and now "separation of church and state" doesn't mean the govt. can't control the church and vice-versa, it means faith and core-values cannot influence the legal system.  That's not what it was supposed to be, but now instead of "right and wrong" everything must be "politically correct" and "everyone must determine for himself what is right".  There are no more absolutes.  We can't say "This is right and this is wrong." because it's different for everybody.  Now we are surrounded by amoral christian scientists who suddenly have the power and the money and a lot of the politicians and press in their pockets.  It's a little unnerving, and I see end-times written all over it, but I won't be shaken.  I have a firm foundation and I simply watch (with growing interest and concern) and pray...and keep doing my thing for me and my family.  After all, that's basically what we're supposed to do.  And witness and "Go ye, therefore.."

@chiques chicks  I'm not sure if the heirloom seeds thing is part of the anti-conspiracy anti-GMO "movement" or not, but it does serve the same purpose, so I guess it's good all-round.  Like @babsbag said, "no harm, no foul"!


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## babsbag (Dec 10, 2015)

@sadieml  I couldn't agree more.  

 I worked in public schools for 14 years and the changes during that time in what and how the children are taught and the way the parents treat the teachers IN FRONT OF THEIR CHILDREN was enough to make me happy that my own kids were out of school and even happier to retire from that madness. And that is what it is...madness. When my children were in school they were still allowed Bible studies, prayers before football games, prayers at graduation, and no one complained. And the pledge of allegiance was said every day. Not anymore, we might offend someone, but no one cares if a Christian is offended.  

I too believe end times are among us but our grandparents said that too. It is just sad how every generation gets a little further removed from the core values our country was founded on and no one seems to notice.  As a world we have become desensitized. Without a belief in God right or wrong is only what the laws make it, no more and no less. And if we don't trust govt. then why would a person trust or follow their laws; maybe all the laws they make are wrong, not just some of them. If only the govt tells me "not to murder someone" what do they know? But if God says it then it is so. And it used to be that we could trust that our Govt was God fearing too and would not lead us astray. It is a crazy mixed up world.

See what you started   I have probably said to much already. I have opinions too and I don't just get blindly led, but it is just that I believe  God has my back and I have to trust Him to deal with what is His. Life is to short for me to try and learn to do His job.  This works for me. 

Didn't mean to turn this into a sermon.


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## frustratedearthmother (Dec 10, 2015)

Well said!


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## babsbag (Dec 10, 2015)

Well is some countries talk like that would get me jail time...or worse. Still glad to be an American.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 11, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> Yep another step to drive out the small producer as the large "commercial" producers have vets on premise 24/7 as it is. Big corporate farms will take over the US.
> 
> Just another step... control the food- control the people.




I was going to sit this one out but...
Are you reading the ads scrolling across the top.
Seems BYH is going Big Ag/GMO


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## Southern by choice (Dec 11, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> I was going to sit this one out but...
> Are you reading the ads scrolling across the top.
> Seems BYH is going Big Ag/GMO
> 
> ...



I don't get the ads...

Thing is I am not anti commercial at all and do believe there certainly is a need for it. Just hate that small farmers are disappearing... micro farms are growing though.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 11, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> I don't get the ads...
> 
> Thing is I am not anti commercial at all and do believe there certainly is a need for it. Just hate that small farmers are disappearing... micro farms are growing though.




You don't get the ads?

Why do I get them?


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## Southern by choice (Dec 11, 2015)

I have ad blocker.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 11, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> I have ad blocker.



I need to get me some of that.  Getting sick of Monsanto ads scrolling across my screen, and everything moving so slow.


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## Latestarter (Dec 11, 2015)

I don't see them either. Didn't even realize that BYH was running that crap. I'm actually sorry to see that


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## alsea1 (Dec 12, 2015)

I'm thinking these ads help pay the bills. Like tv ads.
But back to the fda stepping in to protect us.
If I remember correctly this will be a step by step process.
First is to eliminate the feed thru antibiotic use which helps keep animals thriving even in crowded and less than ideal settings.
Many of us have already chosen not to use feeds that have that in it. But the large factory farms depend on its use. I am pretty sure they will continue this practice in some fashion or another. So the legislation will be useless.
The next step will be to offer fewer medications over the counter at feed stores and such.
At some point you will need an rx for all meds. This could get expensive for those of us that just want to raise a small flock or herd.


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## babsbag (Dec 12, 2015)

Since this is BACKYARD herds I can't imagine that many of us are buying stuff on these ads, but I agree that it is a way to pay the bills, or maybe they are just trying to use "subliminal" advertising to change our way of thinking by flashing these across our screen. 

Technically since most all drugs we use for goats are off label we are already supposed to have a vet involved.


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