# Goat breeds? (Brush clearing and pets)



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

Posted this on BYC too but figured I would ask on the actual herds website too. Sorry it's so long. TIA

So I've really wanted goats for some time and it will probably be a little while before I can get them since currently all my money is going to go towards building a new chicken coop and run but I figured I would start planning now. 

I have considered adding ducks and do want them but they seem very messy even with cleaning and goats just seem to very neat, clean animals so back to wanting them. If I am wrong please correct me. 

Now, I believe I did have a similar thread a while ago and also done research but I have some new questions. 

Previous threads and research have typically led me to dwarf goats or dairy breeds and wethers. Specifically Nigerian Dwarf or African Pygmy (APs do not seem to be around here), Toggenburg, Oberhasli, and Alpine. Have heard Nubians and LaManchas can be loud but that Nubians are nice. 

I always ruled our Boers as i thought they were solely meat goats or boring and not very pretty (rude I know).

I really really liked Nigerian's as they seem very personable and VERY cute and funny and many colors available. Very good traits for a pet. 

HOWEVER. 

I have recentlyheard that rhe dwarf gosts are not very good at brush clearing or that you would need a lot more and that the boers are excellent at this so my thinking has sort of changed. 

I guess my questions are these:

These goats would be primarily PETS but they would also hopefully have the job of brush clearing. If they were to be just pets I would be fine with that too but I figure they should earn their keep. 

Being pets, I don't want them to be mean or pushy. 

What goats are the best for clearing brush? Are there any that can do that well and still be good pets?

If not is it possible to keeo dwarfs with standard goats so that I could have both pets and effective brush clearers?

We have about 3 acres, only about an acre or acre and a half of which is yard. The yard is huge, don't get me wrong, but there's lots of woods plus our woods connect with neighbors and they never use it so plenty of food. Besides the woods we have several overgrown patches on the property. Various grasses, poison ivy, weeds, berries, etc. Would they eat this?

Also, maybe thid is considered weird but are there any that might be easier to take on walks in the neighborhood or on hikes? I have heard of pack animals, is that a thing? Even if they don't pack, can I just take them for walks?

Can they eat the brush on walks and hikes or is it best to avoid it in case they spray it? 

I think that milking is too much work for us and we have no need for milk anyways so believe wethers would be best for us unless does do not necessarily need to be milked or bred?

Also would a 3 sided plywood shelter be sufficient shelter?

And is any hay besides alfalfa good?

Sorry there are so many questions, I only had one or two but thought of more while typing. Sorry. 

TIA


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

Also I'm realizing that boer are actuallypretty good looking


----------



## Southern by choice (Mar 5, 2016)

The amount of brush will be dead killed in 1-2 seasons if you do not move the goats out. So keep in mind if they have access and you want that brush gone it will be. IOW what will you do once it is dead killed?
Link below shows our Kikos... they are rotated so they don't dead kill... and they have food.

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/pasture-and-fencing-options.30475/page-2#post-380216

Depending on your region Boers can be difficult. In our region they are parasite issues. The many here also are not great at forage... they will do trees and vines but mostly stand around waiting for you to grain them. Know what goats do not do well where you are.

For pack goats a wethered standard size dairy breed would be better. IMO

Pretty much any goat can be a pet if you get them young from healthy stock and raise them to be pets. Bottle babies are forever your baby! LOL


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

Thanks so muchfor the input!

I didn't even really know there was such a thing as dead killed but that makes sense! I looked at the pictures and it looks awesome and great fun for the goats!

Although now I'm not so sure, it kind of seems like keeping it growing/keeping it a jungle somewhat defeats the purpose of clearing it but nsybe for yours it's more for food and that makes sense. 

I'm also realizing and wondering if maybe dead killed isn't such a good idea? There are places where the wild animals use and enjoy such thick cover and I wouldn't want to interfere with nature. Maybe those parts in the woods I will leave. However theres a spot on our property with a lot of raspberries and also fairly thick stocked/tall growing weeds and I'd like them to crush that and then the poison ivy i most definitely want dead killed. But maybe the other areas I will let grow back. 

However, I don't mind feeding hay and was planning on needing to provide it anyway 

I hadn't realized there were so many issues with Boers! I'll have to look more into everything. Although boers seem pretty common here. 

Although, maybe I'll stick with dairy breeds since I do potentially want to pack or go on walks. 

That's good to know though that it's not necessarily breed and more how they're raised  

And they actually have goats at the fair every year and always have a pen with banies for sale too so maybe I can save some money and get them. It's in August so plenty of time to save and build something


----------



## Southern by choice (Mar 5, 2016)

For Boers you really need to know your region and how well they do.

Mixed breed dairy cross wethers are great for what you are looking for. Many dairies try to place the boy goats within 3 days after kidding. They do not need boys! They are then raised as bottle babies and make great companions... you wether when old enough.

No we don't want our stuff dead killed! LOL it is there forage. 

I warn you... many do not realize how little time it takes for 2-3 goats to clear and dead kill brush. Sadly we see  many unprepared thinking it will take years only to find out an acre was gone and dead killed in the first year or two (depending if you have seasons). Then they can't afford to keep them and feed them year round.

Hay is always going to be a must as well as minerals.


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

Yeah, I definitely need to do more research. Maybe dairy goats would be best. More common anyway.

I actually saw some crosses on Craigslist yesterday! Really really cheap too. I'll have to find the ad.

The bottle feeding thing seems really fun but I'd be worried I would mess it up haha it's 2-3x a day right? And they stay in the barn and don't come in the house at first, right? Or could they come in? The wethering part especially makes me nervous, feeding them is one thing, cutting off their man bits is another hahah you don't actually cut them though right?

That makes sense!! LOL if we had more land, I'd probably leave a patch open for them!

And thanks for the warning! But don't worry, I know it would take much less than years  fortunately I've wanted them off and on for a bit and have done some research plus even if I hadn't, I happened to find a company in Maryland a while ago and then yesterday found another local version of this (I'm in Massachusetts so Maryland isnt exactly local lol), that rents goats to clear brush and stuff like for golf courses, parks, and houses and stuff. and they rent from a few days to by the week and they clear a ton of stuff in that one week even with only a couple of them! So I'm prepared to give them hay!  in fact, I was more just going to give them hay anyways and have the brush be more of a supplement/fun thing for them while being work done for us.

I'd definitely give them hay and minerals! Confused on the minerals though. I've heard they need baking soda and then I've heard some use loose minerals and some use mineral blocks so not really sure which is best. Same for hay, all I know is to avoid alfalfa. How much hay do they usually go through?


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

Saw this shed yesterday and it seems like a pretty good deal? Seems impossible to move though. But even if I don'tget it, kinda shows the idea of the shelter I was thinking

https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/grd/5467754007.html

Some of the goats I've seen and considered. 

https://newlondon.craigslist.org/grd/5475822323.html


https://providence.craigslist.org/grd/5462691603.html

https://providence.craigslist.org/grd/5453339714.html

https://providence.craigslist.org/grd/5423583324.html

https://newlondon.craigslist.org/grd/5471878649.html

https://worcester.craigslist.org/grd/5470018773.html

https://worcester.craigslist.org/grd/5469655012.html


https://worcester.craigslist.org/grd/5456288466.html

https://providence.craigslist.org/grd/5473649035.html

https://newlondon.craigslist.org/grd/5468317370.html

https://newlondon.craigslist.org/grd/5462688572.html

https://hartford.craigslist.org/grd/5446892227.html

https://worcester.craigslist.org/grd/5393241096.html

https://hartford.craigslist.org/grd/5399161928.html

https://hartford.craigslist.org/grd/5399161928.html

https://worcester.craigslist.org/grd/5397824281.html

https://providence.craigslist.org/grd/5420364882.html

https://providence.craigslist.org/grd/5420364882.html

https://providence.craigslist.org/grd/5414884772.html


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

But i can get different ones or find a breeder


----------



## Southern by choice (Mar 5, 2016)

Don't have time to look through the ads at the moment but wanted to say where are you getting the no alfalfa from?

Alfalfa is fine for wethers. UC is caused by calcium phosphourus imbalance.

read the following especially pay attention to pg 14 but read it all... it is big print lol so an easy 3 minute read 
http://www.ansc.purdue.edu/SP/MG/Documents/SLIDES/Urinary calculi.pdf


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

Yeah, sorry, got kinda carried away with that hahah went to look for one ad and well.. yeah :/

When you have time though def do or least the first 4 or 5? Those are the main ones anyway

As for the alfalfa thing, I'm not really sure. I just thought that I had heard it was too rich for goats or maybe it was the calcium thing or something. But maybe it was only specific genders that can't have it. 

I'll definitely read that! Thank you!


----------



## Southern by choice (Mar 5, 2016)

Your welcome. Many believe that bucks shouldn't have alfalfa or wethers at least... a myth. As you will see when reading.


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

I'm glad it's  a myth then! Is alfalfa cheaperor about the same? I will read it


----------



## Latestarter (Mar 5, 2016)

Looks like you have plenty of selection available. Since you don't want milk, and don't plan on showing, I would buy the cheapest wethers available to you.


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

Yeah, that's what I thought too! 

Some of the goats in the ads are adults or more expensive and i feel like babies would be better?

There don't seem to be many purebreds, mostly dairy mixes, but there are a ton of Nigerian Dwarfs in the area and boers. Alpines are pretty common I think. 

So do you think I should get some of those maybe?

The first 4 or 5 ads are the ones I'm considering most strongly. 

Do you think mixes are good?

And most I think are bottle babies so I don't know if they wether or not


----------



## chiques chicks (Mar 5, 2016)

As a new goat owner, I'll throw in my couple months experience.

Started with two Nigerian wethers for the same reasons you are looking. Got them at 8 weeks, weaned. They bonded with me very well.

One died a couple weeks ago. I since have gotten two mini Nubians does about a year old. They were raised by people with children. They are friendly, but not totally bonded with me, yet. They are getting better.

They are huge compared to my little Nigerian. They push him around a output, but he holds his own. He is still my little buddy.

Currently feeding hay, a little swret feed, and some leafy greens, this spring they will get to browse.

I liked both breeds and really enjoy having goats.


----------



## Southern by choice (Mar 5, 2016)

first ad... Standard Breeds need milk for 12 weeks... not 8 weeks. so I don't like that. Just my opinion.

I like this one...
https://providence.craigslist.org/grd/5453339714.html

only got through the first 3 ... I have people waiting on info fromme so cannot spend a lot of time looking.

I will say this... My wethers sell for $125 and up... why? Because we test! We test for CAE, CL, and Johnes. A non breeding buck is not much risk if CAE positive but CL and Johnes diseases are  issues. We also disbud and the goat is already cut. Truth is we make more $ raising a wether for meat... our wethers go to only the best of homes. 
Often wethers are thrown in with intact bucks, not paid attention to and the intact bucks try to mate them all the time... it is not a great life. I rather it be for freezer than that kind of life.

We also make sure all are friendly- bottle raised, vaccinated, cocci preventative, and parasite free.

So yes, you can go cheap and get the cheapest thing around but is the goat healthy? Cheap goats end up costing a lot of money more often then not. 
Respectable breeders will often place week olds for little $ because they really don't want to give their milk if they don't have to.

Keep in mind that there are people that will sell a "bottle baby" that has not been trained to a bottle! MAKE SURE, have them show you "how" to bottle feed. 

Good Luck!


----------



## Southern by choice (Mar 5, 2016)

also the youngest you want to cut is 6 weeks...
Also horns you need to figure out if you do or don't want them.


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

chiques chicks said:


> As a new goat owner, I'll throw in my couple months experience.
> 
> Started with two Nigerian wethers for the same reasons you are looking. Got them at 8 weeks, weaned. They bonded with me very well.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for the input!! I never even thought of mini Nubians, I'll have to look into those!


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 5, 2016)

Its okay, I,should edit it anyway, the first 4 or 5 are the ones i was mostly looking at anyway but also wanted to somewhat provide a picture of whats around i guess. I'll go back and edit it and put only the couple im reslly interested in

Yeah, I was wondering because then another ad said they need it for 12 weeks so I didn't know which was right. 

I liked that ad too! May have to call. 

And thats very true about the goats posisbly being unhealthy, maybe I,should fund a breeder or something or go to a local fair instead?? 

I hadn't thought about them selling untrained ones, that seems kind of wrong to do that :/

Thanks for the info on the cutting thing, that makes me a little nervous. 

As for horns, I thought I wanted dehorned but I've also heard people say that their goats seem happier and healthier with them since they use them to play and if you work with them they wont use them for hurting you so now I'm not so sure


----------



## Southern by choice (Mar 6, 2016)

Goats are not happier or healthier by having their horns.
It isn't a matter of them using them to hurt you it is a matter of horns present all kinds of issues.

We have gone from horned and polled herd to Disbudded and Polled herd. Horns get caught in fencing, vines, trees, and all it takes is for any goat to startle or jump back and you get hurt.

We have horns still on our Kiko meat goats. They have never tried to use them on us but wow... have we been hit with them from a goat moving around fast, or crowding... oh yes!

Cracked and bruised several ribs rescuing a Kiko whose horns had him stuck in a tree.
Bruised thighs... arms you name it.

I like the horn handles though. 

We also have LGD's and sometimes dogs get the horns... we had one die lunge at one of our geese... tore her neck right open.

There are lots of things I do  like about horns but they can be a real issue. Maybe 3 goats won't present much issue but we have far too many to have horns on and dairy goats because you are so close with them all day... no way, not anymore.

BTW- Cutting is no big deal.. 15-30 seconds and done. Much more humane than banding. We use 4 different vets... all of which cut,NO banding. In our neck of the woods most vets believe it is questionable that any vet would band sheep/goats and believe it falls under "below standard of care". Seems though it depends on the region you are in.


----------



## chiques chicks (Mar 6, 2016)

Around here, any goat $150 or under is rare. 

I have no horns on mine due to fencing, vines, etc. That may change over time, I just decided to start that way.

I am not experienced with goats, just learning and I love reading the answers all the experienced people on here have. I'm learning so much from everyone else!


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 7, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Goats are not happier or healthier by having their horns.
> It isn't a matter of them using them to hurt you it is a matter of horns present all kinds of issues.
> 
> We have gone from horned and polled herd to Disbudded and Polled herd. Horns get caught in fencing, vines, trees, and all it takes is for any goat to startle or jump back and you get hurt.
> ...



Hmm does seem like no horns may be better then! Hadn't thought about getting caught in brush and trees and such or them being scared. All good points. Especially since even though I won't be using them for dairy or anything, they are going to be pets and maybe on walks/hikes or packs or whatever so still close to them a lot so probably better without them. 

As for the cutting thing, wow that definitely sounds much better and faster! It wasn't necessarily that I didn't think it was humane or whatever  (although are they awake?), was just I've never done it before. Do you do it or have a vet do it?


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 7, 2016)

chiques chicks said:


> Around here, any goat $150 or under is rare.
> 
> I have no horns on mine due to fencing, vines, etc. That may change over time, I just decided to start that way.
> 
> I am not experienced with goats, just learning and I love reading the answers all the experienced people on here have. I'm learning so much from everyone else!



Yeah, it's mostly the same here! They're usually over $100 so it was great when I saw the really cheap ones. May still go for the more expensive ones though for the reasons people mentioned. 

Yeah, I think I may as well go with no horns 

And same here!! There's a lot of great info!!!


----------



## Southern by choice (Mar 7, 2016)

Our vet has done it but now we do... I actually prefer the vet to do it... they are so FAST... boom seconds and they are done. I may ask my vet to do the one we have this year... I don't mind the dis-budding but the other 

As far as price... more expensive does not always mean better... and less expensive does not always mean junk or disease. Just keep that in mind.

Whatever you get do a few things right away...
at 4-5 days take a fecal to the vet REGARDLESS of what de-wormer or cocci treatment may have been given... as transport and new home can cause a parasitic bloom. Have vet check for parasites and cocci.

Ask the person you are buying from if kid has had a CD&T vaccine yet... if yes find out when next one is due.
If no you will need to do that- depending on age.

Always good to have your goat checked by a vet (you want a livestock vet that deals in goats). 

Make sure you get feeding schedule and type feed from seller.


----------



## kdogg331 (Mar 8, 2016)

I may have to find a vet to do it then!!

And that's very true. I guess I'll just have to go by whatever works for me and whatever doesn't look sickly aha

That's a good idea, I never thought to have them checked out by a vet after bringing them home! Will definitely do that!

Good idea asking about the vaccine. Will do that. If it's not done, does the vet do that too or?

Will definitely have one check them out. Not sure about a vet though but I'm sure I'll find one. 

Will try to make sure I get that, thanks  is that the kind of milk/replacer they're on or does that count the hay or grain too?

You've been a huge help so thank you!


----------

