# YEAH! I am a NEW dairy cow herder/lady/folk!!!



## mrssmitho (Oct 26, 2009)

Hey yall,
I love this...just like the BYC that has saved my chicken butte many 
times!! 

We are current chicken/turkey enthusiasts...and now for a cow...or 3!

As in subject, we are 100% new. I read all I could (didn't run across BYH until this morning), but reading and experiencing is always way different!

We went to buy a Jersey-Holstein cross - 5 days old - and came home with her, plus a 5 day old Jersey bull PLUS a 6 wk old Jersey-Holstein cross bull...
THIS new girl is SOOO excited! and covered in slobber 

So, the older bull is for eating, the younger bull is for breeding and the heifer is for milking...even though I won't get that savory milk for over 2 years...it is a start!! 

I have read the answer to MANY questions I had already...but here is one:

My older bull calf is not fully weened yet, and he is a pig and obviously bigger and stronger than the 2 little ones...

should I go ahead and halter train so I can separate them to feed?

...or...make 3 separate "feeder" stalls until they are weened??

I will be halter training them very soon anyway, but am not sure if that would stress everybody out to be tied to feed (in view of the others) or not.

Any suggestions?? 

This site is already as addictive as the BYC 
Any suggestions, comments, etc are appreciated!!

MrsSmitho


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## she-earl (Oct 26, 2009)

We are dairy farmers.  It is best to keep them separate until they are weaned.  After they are weaned, I would continue to keep the separate until they have adjusted to not receiving milk.  Calves will drink their milkd and still think they need more.  Therefore, they will suck on each other.  This can cause problems especially with your heifer calf.  It could cause problems with her udder if she is sucked.  She could come into milk before she is bred or even calved.  This could lead to mastitis and ruining a quarter(s).  We keep our calves separate until they are between two and three months old.  A 100 pound holstein calf is fed two quarts of milk twice a day.  You may need to adjust that downward since your calves may be a little smaller than if they were pure holstein.  Have fun.


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## WildRoseBeef (Oct 26, 2009)

I would also suggest you band those bulls ASAP.  Yes BOTH bulls; don't keep any of them for breeding because, with your high inexperience with bulls (and I mean the fully-grown kind), you could end up with a train wreck you could have avoided at this age.   Jersey bulls are the nastiest critters on a farm, and even worse if bottle-fed.  So if you want to breed the little heifer I suggest you find some other alternative that does not involve keeping and caring for a bull on your property and fearing for your safety.  Another thing to think about is, if you do not band those two now, a number of things could happen besides them becoming dangerous; 1) the heifer could get bred too early, resulting in calving issues and vet costs to get a C-section done, plus a possible bottle calf since the heifer probably wouldn't have enough milk to raise the calf; 2) costs in fence repairs and building if you keep the two bulls together and the heifer separate, since both would want to get in with her to get her bred when she's in heat; 3) the two bulls would constantly be fighting over this heifer; and other things.  

I would also recommend what She-Earl said, thus having them having separate feeders.


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## jhm47 (Oct 26, 2009)

By all means, band both bulls, but not the 5 day old one till he is adjusted to your farm and the change in his diet.  He will have enough adjustments to make for awhile, and 5 days old is a very vulnerable time in their lives.  Be especially vigilant that their poop is normal and not runny.  Watch for signs of blood in their stools.  I would also not completely wean the older bull for a couple weeks.  The milk he's been used to getting is a major source of his energy, and to remove it when he is stressed by this move could trigger problems.  Keep him on the milk till he's eating about 4-5 lbs of grain each day.

Watch their ears closely.  Droopy ears and sunken eyes are a very reliable sign of trouble.  Another sign of problems is a lazy attitude toward drinking their bottle.  If any of these signs appear, you must contact a vet immediately.  These little calves can appear healthy, and very quickly decline and die.  

Another thing that you MUST do is to dehorn each of them.  Do that in a couple weeks when they are adjusted to their new diets and environment.  This is a safety thing, and you will not regret it when they get full grown.


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## Sara (Oct 29, 2009)

I'll agree, don't keep a bull.  The cost of feeding a bull to breed one cow is not worth it.  I'm sure you can have a breeder AI her for under 50.00 (My last cow AI'd was 30.00 total), no way keeping a bull can compare to that.  And as others mentioned a bull needs an experienced handler, a bull can kill or seriously injure someone in the blink of an eye, they are not something to mess around with.  We do use a bull with our main cow herd, but it's not for everyone.


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## mrssmitho (Oct 29, 2009)

Howdy! AND A BIG THANKS to the advise thus far!

Yes, we have picked the brains of some old timers around here and decided the 2 bulls are to become steers  and that they will either be sold or made burger when they are ready. 
No problems with stool, sickness, or other yet. They have seemed to adjust very well and have a 2nd mother in our Chocolate Lab...she is momma to all the animals here 

We will be banning the 2 bulls this weekend and de-horning when they pop through the skin...I can't bring myself to use the "under-the-skin" de-budders yet, but I have some friends that will show/do for me if needed.

They have all taken to their bottles, and the older bull calf is now on a bucket...he is also in another area when feeding so there is no stress on the rest of us. 

Keep the advise coming please!!

Thanks again


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## jhm47 (Oct 29, 2009)

I'd find someone who has an electric dehorner and do it that way.  Waiting for the horns to grow larger is going to increase the stress and pain on the calves when you dehorn them.  Use an electric dehorner, do it correctly, and they will be back to normal in half an hour.  Wait till the horns are bigger, and you will have blood spurting, and cause the animal a lot more pain.


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## mrssmitho (Oct 29, 2009)

EWWW, good to know. I figured it would be like wing feathers or nails...with a "quick" but didn't know it would be painful or messy! THANK YOU! will do.


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## jhm47 (Oct 29, 2009)

No, horns are very well attached to the skull, with their own blood supply and nerves.  I've (sadly) had to remove many horns from calves in my own herd, and it is a very unpleasant job, both for the calves and the person doing the operation.  Blood spurts everywhere from the severed arteries, and it is extremely painful to the animal.  The earlier it is done, the better.  Better yet, use a homozygous polled bull, and you won't have to worry.  

From what I have just written, you might be tempted to just allow the horns to grow.  That would be the biggest mistake you could make.  I have bought several cows in the past that were not dehorned.  They are very mean to the other cows, dangerous to humans, and are generally a pain in the a--.  I have children and grandchildren, and cannot take a chance on any of them getting hurt (or worse) by my own negligence in not removing horns from one of my cattle.  

FYI---I am also a EMT, and have seen firsthand the damage that a very powerful animal like a bull or cow can do, even without horns.  NOT pretty!


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