# Had to euthanize a kid last night.  :(



## cmjust0 (Aug 3, 2010)

The giant tree claimed it's first life..  Buck kid..  Found the teeniest little crack, got his back leg hung, freaked, tried to jump, and ended up shattering the bone between his hock and stifle.

There was no fixing it..  I'm fairly certain he also destroyed a big vein/artery and -- given that his leg was turned backward when I pulled him down -- I'm sure the nerves were damaged as well.

After I put him down, I moved his leg around just to make absolutely sure I'd done the right thing.  I could feel bone fragments -- lots of them -- moving around freely, deep within the muscle.  Short of full amputation, he was done.

Truly a catastrophic injury..  

Just sucks.  Pretty bummed out today.



Also just want to take the opportunity to say something to all the lurkers out there considering goats...  If you can't imagine having to carry a 2mo old kid out behind the barn as his leg dangles below him and he yells for his mama, then having to set him down and pet him for a second to calm him...then shoot him in the back of the head....get yourself a nice dog.


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## BriteChicken (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm sooo sorry! But you did the right thing.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm so sorry. That is terrible.


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## freemotion (Aug 3, 2010)

Oh, how horrible.  May this not haunt your dreams.  Go smooch up some healthy kids to remember why you have goats.  I'm gonna smooch mine up in your behalf.


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## glenolam (Aug 3, 2010)

You did the right thing....I had to do the same thing to a duckling last week - something happened, probably stepped on, and bone was sticking out it's leg.  No way that duckling was going to make it on its own, so I mustered up the strength (well, my hubby made me so I could learn how to deal with it) and helped it pass on.

To me, it's better to see them go quickly then watch them suffer for weeks on end until something else happens....


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## DonnaBelle (Aug 3, 2010)

CM, I'm so sorry you had to do that.  I'll be thinking about you today.

I have tears in my eyes for you..... and the goat.

DonnaBelle


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## lupinfarm (Aug 3, 2010)

So sorry CM


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## lilhill (Aug 3, 2010)

You're 100% correct ... raising livestock has it's ups and downs, and this is definitely rock bottom.  So sorry you had to do it, but it was the right thing to do.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 3, 2010)

I was in the house, standing right by the window when it happened..  I heard him start screaming immediately, looked out, and saw him hanging upside-down from the end of the big tree..

Ran out the side door, scrambled over the fence, ran straight over and lifted him up so he wasn't hanging...saw right away that his leg was turned in a very, very bad way.  Took me probably 2min to unwedge his leg and get him back on the ground..  As soon as I set him down, I saw his leg dangling and knew he was finished.

I actually went back in the house, changed, put the pistol in my pocket, and made it back to the gate before it occurred to me to call my wife..  She was getting off work soon, and she'd been working with the little guy quite a bit lately....his mama was teaching him how to be aloof and flighty, and he was juuuust starting to come around.  

I just watched him for a minute trying to decide whether to just get it over with, or let my wife come home and see for herself..  Finally reached her on the phone, and by that point he was laying down and seemed relatively comfortable..  His mama was nearby..  My wife wanted to say goodbye if that's what it came to, but she also wanted to see for herself...

She saw what I saw, but insisted I call a buddy of ours who's been raising goats for better than 20 years..  I knew the answer before he picked up, but she just wanted me to ask if there was anything -- anything at all -- that could be done.  Said that if he didn't have an answer, well...that would be that.

She was just hoping for a miracle, basically.  I was too, in a way, but I knew it wasn't to be.

I told him what happened, and that I had a pistol in my pocket as we spoke..  He said "Depending on which one of mine did that....well, no, I take that back...with a break like that, it wouldn't matter which one it was.  I'd use what ya got in your pocket."

We went down to the barn where he'd managed to hobble in and lay down next to his mama..  My wife went over and cried her eyes out, petting on him and his mama both..  I went up and opened the gate to get behind the other barn, just so I wouldn't have to set him down on our way back there..

When I got back...ugh...it was just heartbreaking, because he and his mama were laying there with their heads together.  She knew he was hurt badly -- I actually believe she knew he was mortally injured -- because she didn't make a fuss or try to push him around or anyting like that...she just hung back with him as he made his way to the barn, and then laid calmly with him.

As I picked him up to carry him away and send him to the other side, she looked up at me and it just broke my heart all over again..

I got him up behind the barn and set him down..  He was confused, and in pain, and he yelled for his mama once as I place the lantern to where I could see what I was doing.  I turned him away from me and just stroked his back until he was calm again...

Literally, the next thing I know, my ears are ringing and he's reeling over sideways..  I'd shot him, which -- as weird as this sounds -- came as a surprise to me.  I had to *think* to really recall bringing the pistol to his head..  It was as if my left hand and my brain were _me_, and my right hand belonged to someone else and acted of another's will.  

I really can't explain it..  This wasn't my first rodeo, but it was the first *kid* I've ever had to put down, and it was the first one that went from perfectly fine to dead -- at my hands -- in such a short span of time.  

Once he'd dropped over...well, they don't just go limp immediately.  He was gone -- no doubt about it -- but I went on and put a second in him just to be absolutely sure the job was done completely.  That one, I remember well.  

Dropped the magazine out of the pistol, pulled the slide back to de-chamber the next round, put that round in the mag, put the mag back in the pistol..  Picked up the lantern.....saw that he'd rolled back into me and I had huge blood stains all over my left pant leg and boot..

Checked fence on the way back to the house..  I have no idea why, but I saw slack in a gate handle and went to investigate it.  Just hadn't fully registered yet, I guess..

Got back to the house, grabbed the shovel..  Went out to the little garden where we buried the last one who died and started on another grave..  The last one to pass would have been a cousin to this little guy, though they never met..  Felt better about burying him with family anyway, as dumb as that sounds..

Dug a nice deep hole...I'm tall, and it was better than knee deep by the time I was done.  I've found that digging a grave is actually good therapy for stuff like this, because at a certain point...well, digging deep holes is hard, so human nature sets in and you just want it DONE.

Went inside and got a blanket..  Went back to where he fell and collected him...he was bigger than the picture I had in my head, and much heavier now than when he was alive.  Carried him back through the pasture, to his grave in our front yard..  

The goats were uncharacteristically laying in the pasture instead of being in the barn.  Something was wrong, and they knew it..  They didn't follow me to the gate like they normally would have, nor did they follow me back out...they just laid there, looking on as I walked.  Maybe they knew what happened...maybe I just looked a little more predatory...maybe they were sad or scared.  I don't know..  They didn't crowd me, though...  They never made a sound.

He had this neat little triangle mark on his side, and my wife wanted a little lock of it..  I snipped a bit of that off and gave it to her..  She put it in an envelope and marked it "J.B.   8/2/2010"..  

I unfolded the blanket and laid him in the center, with his head pointed east.  Took the four corners, lifted him up, and lowered him into the grave.  I made sure he was laying like a little goat does, with his head up..  Draped the blanket over him gently, then began filling the hole.

As usual, the first few shovels full are the hardest..  It's a sickening sound, the thud of dirt clods hitting a body..  So, you take it easy until all you see in the hole is dirt and you can't hear the thud anymore..  After that, it's about getting it done, so you pick up speed..  You feel bad, but again...you just want it over with, so you work quickly and try not to think about anything but shovel...dirt...hole...shovel...

Went back in the house, picked up the herd book..

"Euthanized -- broken leg.  8/2/2010"

Taped the envelope with his lock of hair below the last entry..  Scanned the page...very little there.  DiMethox...  Deworming...  Normal stuff.  Got to the top of the page and saw the entry..

"Born 6/6/2010"

Gone way too soon.  His life hadn't even begun yet.

Rest in peace, little guy.  We'll miss you.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 3, 2010)

Also...between the time when it happened and when my wife got home, I went and found a little strip of plywood, a box of nails, and my hammer, and went up on the tree to cover the crack he went through..

Almost couldn't find it..  I saw a crack and dismissed it as being smaller than the one he'd gone through and not a danger...but then couldn't see any other crack.  I knelt down and looked closer, and sure enough...hair.  His hair.  That was _the_ crack that took his life.  I almost couldn't believe it.

I laid the strip of plywood over it and pounded a few zinc dipped ringshanks through it into the ancient white oak..  When I was done, I couldn't help but stand up and look all around the place thinking........how many other "cracks" are there out here in this old barnyard that might someday claim a life?

Countless..  I'm sure of it.


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## ()relics (Aug 3, 2010)

...Some of you aren't going to want to read this...SO DON'T...though it is always hard to lose any animal under your watch, Its a fact of being an animal owner.  Farm animals as well as pets die and have to be dealt with.  In this case we are talking about a farm animal and as hard as it is to imagine it, this little buck kid was more than likely destined for slaughter, probably later than sooner, but none the less.
  What  I would have done differently?  I would have skinned the little guy and put him in the freezer.he was a market animal that met his end before he should have and there would be no sense, to me, in wasting him...Sad but True...My kids may disagree...JMO


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## helmstead (Aug 3, 2010)




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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 3, 2010)

CM, I am really, really sorry to read this. We do know that these things happen with farm animals but I don't think knowing that really makes it any easier to deal with. FWIW I really think you did the right thing. That's such a hard choice for me to euthanize an animal. I've made that choice a few times but I'm just as likely to keep fighting for their lives beyond when I really should. You have my respect, and my sympathies.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 3, 2010)

()relics said:
			
		

> ...Some of you aren't going to want to read this...SO DON'T...though it is always hard to lose any animal under your watch, Its a fact of being an animal owner.  Farm animals as well as pets die and have to be dealt with.  In this case we are talking about a farm animal and as hard as it is to imagine it, this little buck kid was more than likely destined for slaughter, probably later than sooner, but none the less.
> What  I would have done differently?  I would have skinned the little guy and put him in the freezer.he was a market animal that met his end before he should have and there would be no sense, to me, in wasting him...Sad but True...My kids may disagree...JMO


I totally, 100% get ya..  It is sad, but it is true..  Livestock begets deadstock, from time to time.  

I'm probably less emotionally involved with the goats than my wife is, probably because I'm the one who has to do...well, stuff like this.  

I do get attached, though.  

You're right, though...this little guy was still a bit skitty to be "pet wether" material, and he was already pretty bucky for his age.  Stout would be a good word...big shoulders, and a big wide head..  Wide stance in the back, unlike some of the other fine-boned "hatchet-assed" bucklings running around here..  They're sweet, too, so they'll likely be banded and sold as pets..  

Anyway, I kinda had in my head that he'd go as a good, but inexpensive buck for someone running unregistered dairy stock, or perhaps someone wanting to put a little dairy influence into a potential crop of commercial replacement does..  He'd have been good for that...he was nice and framey for a Nubian, and I think he had the potential to make some nice hybrids if crossed to Boers..

And, in selling him that way...I knew full well he'd likely be used for a year and sent to market as a killer.

Don't have to see that, though, or know it to be 100% true.  Out of sight, out of mind I suppose..

Still, we allow ourselves to get attached because, for us, that's part of the enjoyment of raising goats.  They're fun to hang around with...if it was strictly about water...hay...feed...and keeping them upright, it just wouldn't hold the same appeal to us..  

We know the risks you take when you get attached to livestock animals, and we know it sometimes leads to a very painful, gut-wrenching outcome..  Ultimately, though, I guess we're OK with that..  

We're OK with not fitting into either the 'pet goats' box or the 'livestock' box..


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## cmjust0 (Aug 3, 2010)

I appreciate everyone's support today..  Thought about what I had to do, and about his mama and sister, until I fell asleep last night at like 2am..  First thing in my head when I got up, too..  

Pretty bummed out still..

You guys help, though.  A lot.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Aug 3, 2010)

I am soooo SORRY...for your tragedy!!! I dont think I have to say you did the right thing...you obviously knew what was right for the little guy!! I never thank my husband enough for being the warrior...its the love for them that gives you the strength to carry out those task!!  Those necessary evils...THANK YOU for caring enough to do right by him.  My thoughts and prayers are with you, your wife..and your herd..at this sad, sad time....we just lost our baby buck 2 wks ago...and the next moring my rooster crowed as he should...I looked at my husband, both of us greiving still...from a long night and a burrial..and said.."The rooster still crows the next morning to remind us that life must go on at the farm"  so we got up and did what we had to do...Obviously with heavy hearts...I hope the weight of your sorrow lightens soon.   

Im so sorry for your loss....


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## Mea (Aug 3, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> I appreciate everyone's support today..  Thought about what I had to do, and about his mama and sister, until I fell asleep last night at like 2am..  First thing in my head when I got up, too..
> 
> Pretty bummed out still..
> 
> You guys help, though.  A lot.


Awwww !    ((((((CM)))))))) !


   Blessings to You for having the courage to relieve him .    'Taint easy !


  ( i'm heading out to hug my goaties....And check for "cracks" )


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## jodief100 (Aug 3, 2010)

Been there, done that.  It always sucks.  

Even when you raise goats for the meat market like I do, you still want them all to have happy and comfortable, albeit short lives.  It just seems worse when its a baby.  

You did the right thing.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 3, 2010)

It takes a great deal of fortitude to do the right thing in a situation like that.


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## dkluzier (Aug 3, 2010)

Very sorry to hear what happened to the little fellow.  We haven't lost a goat yet and I know that some day we will be forced to make the same kind of decision that you did and hope that one of us has the courage to do what you did.  

I have taken care of some crippled chicks and I didn't enjoy it at all.


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## Roll farms (Aug 3, 2010)

Jeez, I just got to see this, and I'm awful, awful sorry, CM....It's terrible.

I know because we basically had the EXACT SAME SITUATION w/ the latest fawn this weekend.  He shattered his leg in the same spot trying to jump over this stump, landed funny or hit the stump or something.  It wasn't a clean break, and he scraped his other leg up good going over it.

 (It's rough-hewn from breakage when the tree fell over years ago, it's never been an issue before b/c it's too tall for the goats to bother jumping on / over it.)

And yes, it was 'just' a fawn that was destined to be roadkill or dinner for someone, but after months of rehab work and effort...and a small bit of affection that comes w/ dealing w/ any critter long-term...it hurt.

My dh had tears in his eyes when he shot him...and has told me "No more fawn rehab."

The mighty hunter, he ain't....


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## cmjust0 (Aug 3, 2010)

It's weird...I've been elbow deep in the blood of small ruminants before, because I hunt.  Though I don't raise the deer I hunt, I'm still always kinda bummed out when I stand over one I've just killed..  

I don't necessarily try to steel myself against that, though..  I actually try to let it flow through me, and actually _feel it_, because I don't _want_ to become immune to that feeling.  

I guess, to me, that feeling is a big part of being human, and not just another predator.  It's a part of my humanity that I don't want to lose -- even though it's hurtful sometimes.

If that makes me a weenie, that's fine..  Not that anyone's saying it does, of course, but...well, we all know how people are, and what's expected of "farmers."  Seems we're kinda expected to have hearts of stone when it comes to doing stuff like this, else we're not "real farmers" or whatever.

I hate to disappoint those folks, but....I just don't accept that.  I'll never be convinced that there aren't a goodly portion of old timey hard-nosed farmers who leave the salebarns with light trailers and heavy hearts, considering all the work they put into their livestock..  And it ain't as if we're making millions of dollars at this...you either do it because, deep down, you love it, or you don't do it at all..

I'll even go so far as to say that if ever shooting a kid goat in the back of the head is something I can do casually, I'll sell out.


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## mossyStone (Aug 3, 2010)

i am so sorry


Mossy Stone Farm


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## Calliopia (Aug 3, 2010)

I have a very similar opinion to yours CM.  

  I have hunted and fished since I was 10.  In my family I am the one that gets to "deal with things".  It's a job I inherited from my dad as I can disconnect enough to complete the act but still be compassionate about it. 

 I NEVER want to not feel it.    

I know that some of my goats will end up in the freezer, they can't all be pets.  As much as it will kill me to do it, I will be the one to put down my buck this year and he will probably end up in the freezer as well. 

It's a hard transition to jump from "rescue" to "butcher". They are VERY different mindsets and it is not an easy leap in my experience. 

I have buried animals that I probably could have eaten but at that time it was not possible to butcher them. 


I am so sorry for your experience.  You have my absolute sympathy.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Aug 3, 2010)

I would think you a weenie if you didtnt hurt!!  "Real Farmers" care about their animals...remember we dont make the big bucks...we do it becuase WE LOVE IT..and love them..and I think it makes us better people cuz we can truly relate to and understand Life and Death and respect other creatures on this earth for who and what they are......Ive known many of old time farmers..with a tear in there eyes from time to time...Were realist, but we feel!!  And thats what makes us better for it!   When farmers stop caring about their animals...look what happens...Factory Farming etc....Keep Caring!


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## warthog (Aug 3, 2010)

So sorry for your loss, you did the right thing by him.

Whilst it's hard to do such a thing, the right things never come easy, they alway have a cost, the pain and the grief, but that's what makes us human.  If we don't feel that pain, what have we become.

When I lost my buck some weeks ago, I did not have the option to bury him, because of the level of the water table here.  I had to cremate him and with 3 large dogs here, having to keep going out and refueling the fire and making sure every bit got burned, which took a whole 24 hours.  So I know it's not easy.

You have both my respect and my sympathy.


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## Hykue (Aug 4, 2010)

I cried for you, and for the kid, and for his mama.  I hope I have a long time before I need to do this.  I had to do a chicken yesterday, and that was quite hard enough.  Mammals are so much harder.  It sounds like it was a pretty clear-cut situation, though, which makes it just the tiniest bit easier, knowing you're doing the right thing.  And I wish I could own a pistol, because it would work so much better for this situation.  I can completely understand that you buried him, and it certainly is a bit of an emotional release.  I would have tried to convince myself to butcher, but I'm not sure I would have succeeded - I've yet to meet a young goat kid.

That suddenness sure does make it hard.  It might help a little bit to think of what the goats would prefer - a safe, "padded room" type of existence, or a fun, slightly risky existence.  For that one goat, the unsafe world worked out very badly, but your goats as a whole sure would prefer the occasional catastrophe to being locked in a padded barn.

I hope it is many years before you (or any of us) need to do that again!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 4, 2010)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> When farmers stop caring about their animals...look what happens...Factory Farming etc....Keep Caring!


Absolutely.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 5, 2010)

Just a couple of pictures of the little guy..  Only two we'd taken, I think..












He was pretty bucky, compared to some of the other bucklings we had this year..  Good shoulders on him, and a 'blocky' head, for lack of a better word..  He just _looked_ male, I guess is what I'm getting at..  I think he was only about 10-days old in these pics..

Really sorry, little guy.  

(BTW...That's his sister standing behind him in the first pic..  She's really adorable, and is becoming very, very sweet.   )


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## jessica5254 (Aug 5, 2010)

I am truly sorry for your loss, but did you have to add that graphic picture of how you put him down. just for the record he should have been euthanized not shot. That is my own personal opinion. Just because you had a freak accident doesnt mean you shouldnt have goats. If you keep animals no matter what type, death is part of raising and caring for them. I am sure we have all had experiences whether it be with goats, dogs, etc. but that has not stopped me from having then and letting them be a joy. I am truly sorry like I said, but that was toooo much information for me to handle.


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## jodief100 (Aug 5, 2010)

jessica5254 said:
			
		

> I am truly sorry for your loss, but did you have to add that graphic picture of how you put him down. just for the record he should have been euthanized not shot. That is my own personal opinion. Just because you had a freak accident doesnt mean you shouldnt have goats. If you keep animals no matter what type, death is part of raising and caring for them. I am sure we have all had experiences whether it be with goats, dogs, etc. but that has not stopped me from having then and letting them be a joy. I am truly sorry like I said, but that was toooo much information for me to handle.


"Shot" is euthanized.  It is the quickest and most painless way to do it.  Would letting the poor baby suffer for a few more hours while waiting for a vet be better?  

CM is hurting and I don't think this was the appropriate time or place to be critical.  I think relaying the details is good therapy and if it helped than I am glad he did.  

If it was too much inofrmation for you than you should have quit reading.   Leave CM alone so he can mourn in his own way!


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## ksalvagno (Aug 5, 2010)

He was a cute little guy.


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## lilhill (Aug 5, 2010)

CM, he was a handsome little fella.  Hope you are feeling a little better today knowing that you did what you had to do for the baby.  It's tough, but that's to your courage and compassion, he's no longer in pain.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 5, 2010)

jessica5254 said:
			
		

> I am truly sorry for your loss, but did you have to add that graphic picture of how you put him down.


I didn't have to, but writing it all down kinda helped me come to terms with it..  I also happen to think it's good that people considering goats have a chance to read stories like this from time to time, rather than simply reading about all the joyous things that come with goat ownership..



> just for the record he should have been euthanized not shot. That is my own personal opinion.


If what you mean to say is he should have been "put down by a vet," I disagree whole heartedly.  My way, he died without having to travel more than about 200' from his mama..  They were seperated -- for the first time in his short life, mind you -- for just a matter of moments.  

Even that was stressful for him, but he was only nervous and confused for a few seconds because I was there, and I comforted him and very quickly settled him back down before sending him to the other side.  

Now, compare that with a 1/2-hour drive to the vet...with a broken leg, in a jostling car...without his mama...then being in a strange place, with strange people, and no other goats...  

When the end result is the same, it makes more sense to carry it out in whatever manner keeps the goat as calm and comfortable as possible.

It would probably have been easier on me to load him up, take him somewhere, and make him someone else's problem...but this wasn't about me.  This was about him.  What was easier on him was harder on me, but that was OK -- of the two of us, his welfare was more important than mine.

And, for the record, a gunshot is considered to be a perfectly acceptable means of on-farm euthanasia, and on-farm euthanasia is just a reality of keeping livestock.  In fact -- for you, and anyone else out there keeping goats -- you may actually want to browse this link someday.  Never know when you might need to know how to carry something like this out.

If you click the link, you'll notice the call for a .38 caliber pistol -- I used a .380 automatic.  Also, notice the suggested shot placement -- that's exactly what I did.  The link says "When performed skillfully, euthanasia by gunshot induces immediate unconsciousness" -- and it did.

In fact, given the supersonic nature of a bullet, I'd gaurantee he was gone before the sound of the shot ever reached his ears.....he never even heard the shot that killed him.

For him, it was the blink of an eye.



> Just because you had a freak accident doesnt mean you shouldnt have goats. If you keep animals no matter what type, death is part of raising and caring for them.


True..  I also believe that people need to be made aware that these things happen -- indeed, with unfortunate frequency -- when it comes to livestock, as opposed to the usual pets like dogs, cats, etc.  And when these things do happen, a trip to the vet isn't always feasible or human...which means it's sometimes up to us to do what has to be done.

That's why I suggested that if anyone can't stomach the idea that they'll be called upon one day to send one of their goats to the other side, think long and hard before you actualy go buy some.



> I am sure we have all had experiences whether it be with goats, dogs, etc. but that has not stopped me from having then and letting them be a joy. I am truly sorry like I said, but that was toooo much information for me to handle.


Well...you were no more compelled to read it than I was to write it.  I'm sorry if it upset you, but...well, if reading about it was too much, imagine having to _do it._

You may, someday.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 5, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> My way, he died without having to travel more than about 200' from his mama..  They were seperated -- for the first time in his short life, mind you -- for just a matter of moments.
> 
> Even that was stressful for him, but he was only nervous and confused for a few seconds because I was there, and I comforted him and very quickly settled him back down before sending him to the other side.
> 
> ...


I agree.


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## glenolam (Aug 5, 2010)

Well said, cm....  You are a strong, wise person who has the capability to reason _and_ you have more courage than most do.

He was a cutie and you know you have support from most of us.


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## Bunnylady (Aug 5, 2010)

A few years ago, I had a doe and her kid both develop neurological symptoms a few days after she kidded. Neither one could stand, and I hauled them both to a vet (about a 45 minute trip). The likelihood of either recovering was poor, and it was decided that the kid would be euthanized, while we concentrated on trying to save the doe. The vet techs took him into another room to "do the deed," but I could still hear his struggles and cries of protest as the needle went in and the drug began to take effect. He may not have known what was happening, but he was fighting it all the way!

Just sayin', if anyone thinks the needle is a peaceful, gentle exit, it ain't always so. People have been severely injured by large animals that are fighting anesthesia, even the routine, non-lethal kind. 

(In the end, we were unable to save the doe too, and I wound up bottle feeding her remaining kid. It turned out that the infection that killed her entered her body during the birthing process. Nothing quite like the guilt of knowing that a decision I made (breeding her) led to the death of a beloved pet!)

It seems odd to think that an act of violence can be an act of  kindness, but you do what you gotta do. Kudos to the OP for having the courage to do it (and yes, it does take courage to do something like that, when every fiber of your being wants to save the animal, not kill it). Some people say that goats are born looking for a way to die; you don't really understand what that means until you've owned a few of them. My condolences to the OP for your loss; hopefully it will be a long time before you have to make a decision like that again.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Aug 5, 2010)

jessica5254 said:
			
		

> I am truly sorry for your loss, but did you have to add that graphic picture of how you put him down. just for the record he should have been euthanized not shot. That is my own personal opinion.


In my personal opinion...being shot sounds alot worse than it is. When someone is an expirenced marksman..they know how to "euthanize" with a gun.  I agree that it would of been too much for the animal to endure to be driven to the vet for 1/2 hour in that kind of pain or endure the stress of being that injured and pulled from his mother...this was quick and it was a VERY Humane way to handle the situation.  I support you CM and I would'nt hesitate for a minute to do the same thing.. its part of having them...and loving them!   And its sometimes becomes a jagged pill to swallow when we have to do things for thier best interest. 

Just remeber we are here to support and help eachother through sharing expiences and situations. Not criticize...I dont hold the opinions of everyone on here....but the man just went through hell....give him a break..skip the sentences if you cant handle it...or dont read it at all if your sentitive to that kind of information.  You are in control of what you expose yourself too.  But be kind...we all here to do the best for our animals and share experiences with them good or bad.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 5, 2010)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> In my personal opinion...being shot sounds alot worse than it is. When someone is an expirenced marksman..they know how to "euthanize" with a gun.


Unfortunately, I had to gain a little real-world experience with the process to be able to do it as efficiently as I did this time...  

STOP READING THIS, RIGHT NOW, IF READING ABOUT A BOTCHED EUTHANASIA WILL DISTURB YOU...AND IT PROBABLY WILL DISTURB YOU, BECAUSE IT'S GENUINELY DISTURBING...SO YOU SHOULD PROBABLY JUST HIT THE BACK BUTTON AND MOVE ON TO THE NEXT THREAD.  SERIOUSLY.

Still reading?  Okay, well...don't blame me when you have nightmares.  I do think people should know what happens when things don't go just right, though...and that it _does_ happen, no matter how well you think you've planned.. 

I'd also like to think my horrifying experience might keep someone else from doing what I did...would be about the only good that could come from it.

Soooo...the first time I had to do this, I took the advice on the page I linked earlier and used a .22LR..  Seemed "friendlier" somehow..  

This was an adult goat, too.

_Don't use a .22LR_.  I was only certain it was over with after I'd sent bullet #4 into her skull when using a .22LR.  I'm positive that she was wasn't conciously aware of anything that happened after #1...but I was...and it's not something I'd wish on anybody -- hence the post on it..  

Suffice it to say that once they go motionless and you grab a leg to move them...and they pull back...you jump up right quick and send in bullets #2 and #3. 

I walked around for about 5 minutes after #3 and she was totally motionless when I came back..  I sat right over her and watched, just to see if she was -- by some horrible miracle -- still breathing..  

Nothing..  She was absolutely still.  This is probably >10min since bullet #1, mind you..  I'm sure there's no way she's still alive..

So, I reached down and took her by the horn and I'll be daggone if she didn't pull against me _again_, then commenced to kicking her legs some more..

Bullet #4 went right into the center of her skull, and I was actually facing her at that point..  Had to look her right in the eye as I pulled the trigger.  By that point, though, her eyes were "dead," of course, so that made it a bit easier...but still.  Things had obviously not gone according to plan at this point, and I'm just winging it..

You don't want to have to wing it when you're doing this -- again, hence the post..

She immediately went 100% limp after bullet #4, and I saw blood begin to pour from the hole..  I got this sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach like...aw, man...that's bad..._and then it got *WORSE*.._ 

Suffice it to say that the word "geyser" comes to mind, if that tells you anything -- and no, I'm not embellishing.  Probably 3-4" high, for at least a full two seconds..  That told me that, somehow or another, she actually still had some fairly significant blood pressure at that point..

That ended it, though..  Forever, and always...done.

Moral of the story...if you have something better than a .22LR to euthanize a goat, USE IT.  And if you don't, my advice would be to just go ahead and pump several in there in rapid succession..  The reality is that they have extremely thick skulls, and pretty small brains, so it's not as if you're just shooting them "in the head" to do the job..  There's a target, and it's not a very big one..  

I actually heard one of my neighbors put a cow down with a .22LR one evening..  He'd apparently learned the same thing I did that day, at some point earlier in his life..  I heard "snap...snap snap snap snap snap snap snap...snap snap.. snap"..  

Soooo...it's not just me, I don't think..

And, like I said...if you just read this and went OH MY GOD...I can't believe he actually posted that...well, you were warned.  

If, however, you just read that and went...wow, that's good to know...you're welcome, and I hope you never ever ever have to do it.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 5, 2010)

Something else I forgot to mention about the day the kid broke his leg...

As soon as I heard him start screaming, I bolted out the door and ran toward him..  Coming in the opposite direction, from the old truckbed trailer under which he's constructed quite the "man cave," came our male Sarplaninac LGD, Ivan, running as hard as he could run..  He got there before I did, and was met by our other LGD, Mischa.  

Ivan was bouncing on his front legs and raring up to see if he could reach the little guy..  He wasn't _excited_ by the activity, per se, nor trying to "get at him"...but more like trying to touch him or sniff him or something..  It was like a frantic "OMG OMG OMG OMG" bounce, like "I HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!!"...but, obviously, there was nothing he could do.  

He can't exactly kill the giant dead tree, yanno?

The goats come to the dogs when the dogs get mad -- a learned behavior, and a good one -- and the dogs both got _really raw_ with the goats about the time I got there, and they ran them all off..  Kept them away, too, which was good as it gave me room to work.  I dunno if that's what they were trying to do, necessarily, but it was helpful..  I think it was more like the dogs were just worried and the goats were annoying them by milling around..  

Once I was there, the dogs sat down and watched the kid -- not me, the kid -- the whole time I was trying to get him down.  I only know that because I stopped to look around a few times to see if there was anything I could reach to stand on that would get me just a few inches higher, balancing the kid over my head the whole time so he wouldn't just be dangling there...  There was nothing to be had, of course, so I just kinda had to grow a few inches for a minute...which I apparently did, somehow, because I obviously did get him down..

Anyhow, I just felt like I needed to come back and append this to the story, because Ivan and Mischa were both super concerned about the whole thing.  Big kudos from me to two _really good_ LGDs.


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## freemotion (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't have a gun and I have stayed with and held every animal that has been euthanized in my adult life.

I'd far rather a gun be used.  It is quicker and more humane.  They don't know it is coming and feel nothing.

Not so with a needle.  It hurts.  The drug going in is uncomfortable.  Sometimes the animal fights against death, and that is the worst, the absolute worst.....makes ya question the timing of the decision, even if it was the right one intellectually.

Reading your story, cm, made me wish that someone in my family had a gun and would use it if called upon.  If that were the case, I'd likely never use a vet to euthanize again.  Nothing against it, but the bullet is quicker and less stressful on the animal.  And transporting that goat would've been beyond cruel unless absolutely necessary.  Waiting for the vet to arrive, possibly for hours, would also have been cruel, especially with a pistol available and someone willing to put aside their own pain for a moment to do an animal the ultimate in kindness.

IMO.  Sorry, jessica, but that is just reality.  Not saying you need to do it....I won't, or can't, or something....but let's not criticize someone who manned-up and did the right thing for the sake of a sweet little buckling who was suffering beyond imagination.

Thank goodness you were there to hear him scream and he didn't hang from that tree....Thank goodness you had the pistol and the fortitude.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 5, 2010)

freemo said:
			
		

> Thank goodness you were there to hear him scream


Ya know, I've actually had that same thought...if there's such a thing as a "good time" for this to have happened, the little guy picked it perfectly.

I'd been gone to work since early that morning, and my wife left for work at like 1pm..  I didn't make it home until right about 8pm, and it happened less than 30min after I got home.  There was also just enough daylight to see right away what was going on, and to get him down quickly..  He didn't dangle for more than a few seconds, really, and was back on the ground in probably 3min or less.  

Had it happened at, say...1:15pm, just after my wife left for work...poor little guy could have been hanging upside down by his shattered leg for about six hours until I got home.

Would probably have been easier on me to find him hanging dead like that, simply because I wouldn't have had to kill him myself...but I certainly wouldn't have wished that on him just so it would be easier for _me_..

I dunno if this is going to make a lick of sense or not, but......if something that catastrophically wrong can be considered to have gone _well_, it went about as well as it possibly could have.


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## jlbpooh (Aug 5, 2010)

CM, I am sorry about your cute little guy and I feel for you. My brother had to do the exact thing to his dog about a month ago. He was pulling his boat out of the driveway to get ready to go on vacation. The supports under his boat trailer drags against the driveway when he goes down the hump. Well, his dog had his sights set on something and ran right under the trailer right when it hit the driveway. I'll spare the details, but it wasn't pretty. It was only 5:30 in the morning, so obviously the vet wasn't open. The dog was mortally wounded, but definitely conscious to where he was feeling the pain, and he was suffering greatly. My brother grabbed his piece out of his van, it was kinda handy since they were leaving to go camping in the boonies.) He and his family gave the dog a last hug and kiss, and the dog was taken out of his suffering. My brother felt horrible, but he did what he had to do given the circumstances. (He lives in the city, btw, so it was illegal to shoot the gun, but again, you gotta do what you gotta do.)


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## jodief100 (Aug 6, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> _Don't use a .22LR_.


As an experience marksman (NRA certified competition shooter in 5 different disciplines)  I am going to add: DO NOT use a .25, .32 or .223 either.  None of these calibers have enough mass to do the job quickly and easily. 

If you must do this, and we all will at sometime do it RIGHT.  Learn from the experience of others to save your animals the pain and yourself the suffering.

Make sure there are no rocks, concrete or anything hard on the other side, hit the dirt. And use an approprauet caliber.


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## jessica5254 (Aug 6, 2010)

I was just relaying my opinion and I do believe I have that right. I was not rude and i could have said alot worse. Also how am I supposed to know what he was going to write I was just reading and felt sorry for the guy. Whos being critical now? Also I have had to put some of my own goats down with a gun it is not preferrred but it depending on the situation.  I thought this website was wonderful and it is until you disagree with someone.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 6, 2010)

jessica5254 said:
			
		

> I was just relaying my opinion and I do believe I have that right. I was not rude and i could have said alot worse.  Also how am I supposed to know what he was going to write I was just reading and felt sorry for the guy. Whos being critical now?


You _do_ have that right, and I opened the door to all manner of discussion by posting it on a discussion forum.  If I'd wanted to just go on feeling right and never have it challenged, I could easily have NOT posted it here..  But, I did post it, and I did so knowing full well that not everyone was going to agree with how the situation was handled.

I'm OK with that, because I knew it was the right thing to do, and I knew that a few critical forum posts weren't going to shake my confidence in having done what I did.

Now, what _you_ have to understand about all the responses your post generated is that those folks are entitled to an opinion as well -- just like you.  If you didn't want to run the risk of having your opinion challenged, then you shouldn't have posted it on a discussion forum.

This place is a two way street.





> *Also I have had to put some of my own goats down with a gun it is not preferrred but it depending on the situation*.


So...you say my goat should have been "euthanized" instead of shot, and you claim that simply _reading_ about shooting a goat was overly graphic and just "toooo much" for you to handle....yet, it's something you've actually done before?

That doesn't exactly add up..  :/



> I thought this website was wonderful and it is until you disagree with someone.


It is wonderful -- _even when you disagree with someone._ 

You just have to be willing and able to do that without getting your feelings hurt.  That's all.  

I'll also say this --   if anybody here has grounds to be a little aggravated, it would be me...at you...and I think most here would back me up.

But I'm not aggravated.  Not even a little bit.  

And if I can handle your opinion that I did the wrong thing by killing a baby goat, or that I did it in the wrong way, or whatever.....well, _surely_ you can handle others' opinions that you did the wrong thing by criticizing me..  Yes?


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## jessica5254 (Aug 6, 2010)

I did not do it myself My husband took care of it. And sorry if I hurt your feelings I believe you did the right thing about putting the kid down. When Iwas reading your post, i just was not expecting details. I have personal reasons why I cant handle details of that nature. That is my own problem. But i was just expressing my opinion which I will not do again.


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## Hykue (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm also new, and I don't think the objection was to disagreeing, it sounded to me like it was the context in which the disagreeing happened.  If this thread had been a general discussion about euthanasia and what situations using a gun would be appropriate, the comment would have been right at home.  It just came across as a little bit insensitive given that it was applied to a specific animal that someone had to make a very hard decision about.  I can understand that you were feeling very shocked after reading the description, and I'm sorry.  These stories affect me too, but I still read them because it seems healing to me to share them.  Even when they make me cry.  Given the title of the thread, you knew what was coming, but you expected it to be something that was easier on the humans involved.  Unfortunately, the reality of the situation was such that the OP decided using a gun was the most humane.  Yes, it is a shocking and horrible image, not because he did anything wrong, but because we all love baby goats, and a gun is a tool used for killing.  If you too have had to use a gun for euthanasia, you can understand that in some contexts it is the right tool.  Personally, I found the image of the goat hanging by his leg even more disturbing, because that would have been so unbelievably painful, but that's what happened, so that's what the OP posted.  You definitely have the right to disagree with what he posted, but especially when someone is grieving, it might be better to keep your disagreement to yourself on that particular thread.  You were not rude at all, you made the point that it was just your opinion, but you would hardly go to the house of someone who was grieving for a lost friend and tell them that they should have done something differently, no matter how politely you phrased it.  Well, I wouldn't, anyway.  It is really just my personal opinion.  Your comment didn't strike me as rude or anything, just as being a bit out of place.
*
Emmett's dairy wrote:*


> Just remeber we are here to support and help eachother through sharing expiences and situations. Not criticize...I dont hold the opinions of everyone on here....but the man just went through hell....give him a break..


It sounded to me like that was what people were trying to say.  Choose your battles, so to speak.  If you want to discuss guns used as euthanasia, start a thread about it.  If you want to object to the use of a graphic image, you certainly can, but it might work better for you to edit your reading than to try to edit other people's writing.  I understand that you were just expecting the kind of general asking-for-sympathy thread.  If it were me, that's probably what I would have posted.  But that doesn't mean that he had no right to post the image.  By the time I got to that part of the story, I knew what was coming, because he had been telling the whole story as a narrative.  If I thought I couldn't take it, I would have had the responsibility to stop reading then.  But, having just had to put down one of my chickens, I found that the image of someone else ALSO killing something out of love and a sense of duty to minimize suffering helped me to feel less alone.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 6, 2010)

jessica5254 said:
			
		

> I did not do it myself My husband took care of it.


I know it still hurts to have to go through that, even at a distance...but it really is a totally different ballgame when you actually have to pull the trigger.



> And sorry if I hurt your feelings I believe you did the right thing about putting the kid down.


That's just it...you didn't hurt my feelings.  Like I said, I knew I did the right thing and it's gonna take more than a forum post or two questioning my actions to change my mind about that.



> When Iwas reading your post, i just was not expecting details. I have personal reasons why I cant handle details of that nature. That is my own problem.


Well, then I guess it's my turn to say I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.  



> But i was just expressing my opinion which I will not do again.


Nobody's telling you not to express your opinions...but this is a discussion forum.  If you have opinions you don't wish to be challenged, it would be wise not to express them -- because they will be challenged.

If nobody challenged anyone else's opinions, it would be a very boring world without much change or innovation.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 6, 2010)

Hykue said:
			
		

> Personally, I found the image of the goat hanging by his leg even more disturbing, because that would have been so unbelievably painful,


I actually have both images etched in my brain, and I agree with you..  

The shooting was more injurious, of course, but infinitely less painful and scary and stressful for him than were the moments following the accident itself..

Having been present for both, that's not really a matter of opinion -- it's just a _fact_.



> But, having just had to put down one of my chickens, I found that the image of someone else ALSO killing something out of love and a sense of duty to minimize suffering helped me to feel less alone.


I should have been more direct about this when I read the stories, but reading about Roll Farm's fawn and your chicken helped me -- a lot -- in much the same way as you describe..  I didn't necessarily feel better about having to do it, but...well, while I hate it for ALL of us, it really does help to know you're not the only unlucky SOB in the world who has to do things like this.


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## chubbydog811 (Aug 6, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your little goat! I'm sure that sucked more than you could explain to someone who has never done it.

...One of my rescue goat's udder exploded, and the office was already closed...I'm sure she was in incredible pain, but she didn't show it. I loaded her up in the car, and took her to a friend's house who had the right size gun to take care of her with. I'll admit, I wasn't there for it, but I was in the barn next to where they did it...Took 4 shots to kill her. I assume it was probably the same deal as the first goat you did. I didn't especially want details, so I didn't ask, and they didn't tell. But it was in the best interest of the goat to just shoot her and get it over with, instead of waiting until Monday (This was a Saturday afternoon). 
Also will add (on a different note) bringing a goat to the vet can get expensive fast. The vet will need to do an exam, make sure that the animal really needs to be killed, and sometimes even try to save it. On top of that, you have to cart them all the way to the office (its 45 minutes for me) stress the animal out more, and spend alot more than needed. Where they could just go peacefully in your back yard instead.

Bunnylady wrote:


> Just sayin', if anyone thinks the needle is a peaceful, gentle exit, it ain't always so. People have been severely injured by large animals that are fighting anesthesia, even the routine, non-lethal kind.


This is SOO true! I had a two of my colts gelded this week. The vet gives a sedative, then the drug to knock them out. I was very glad that these were ponies, because they fall every where when this drug sets in...And someone(me) had to be holding them. First one pushed me when he fell and almost caught me on a wall, second one almost fell on me (note:I was about 6' away, on a long lead, so I didn't get hurt when he fell). He stumbled foward and then sideways...Not fun at all!
Anyway, sorry again about the kid, you did right by him though


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## SisterFlax (Aug 8, 2010)

You did the right thing.  

I found this forum today looking for a humane way to kill a goat, other than a gun.  My husband can and has shot them for me, but it feels so brutal.  If an animal that is not going to make it, and too weak to put up a fight I would like an injectable way to euthanize - I can hit the jugular no problem.  From my googling, this is not an option available for an owner.  Bleeding them out seems as messy and awful as shooting them, I do not have what it takes to drown an animal...  I have two deaths to enterotoxemia this week - one especially was clearly agonizing.  I DID get the vet out, but she just watched the doeling die with me...  It was fast at that point and she had stopped struggling.

If anyone has another method of putting an animal out of it's misery that is humane and fast, please let me know.

My heart goes out to you and you are not alone in your sadness for your little guy.  

Nan


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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 8, 2010)

I am sorry to hear you are facing that. 

I am not sure if you can rig up a way to do it safely with something the size of a goat, but we have used car exhaust fumes for very small animals in the past. 

I'm trying to think of a med you could maybe use a large dose of to put them to sleep, but I can't think of anything readily accessible. I wouldn't want to guess on it anyway, since goats so often have to be dosed off-label at high dosages anyway. 

So sorry you are dealing with these things.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 9, 2010)

There are two things we're warned against using in goats, for fear of instant death..

1) PenG, intravenously.
2) an antibiotic called "Micotil"

Thing is, I don't know of anyone who's ever done either to know whether it's a "drop-dead instantly and peacefully" kind of reaction, or a "thrash about and scream in pain for a few seconds before keeling over" kind of a reaction..

As such...wouldn't try, nor could I recommend, either one.

Really sorry you're having to make that decision, though.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 9, 2010)

Would your vet sell you a dose of stuff to do the deed yourself? My vet is usually willing to sell a single dose of drugs that the average person isn't supposed to have a bottle of. Of course I have to have a reason why I need that dose but it sure saves on a vet call when I know what the problem is and just need a certain drug.


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## lilroo (Aug 29, 2010)

i'm so sorry to hear, These things can be close to the heart and like others said go kiss another kid and remember why you have goats.


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## mabeane (Aug 29, 2010)

Life on the farm...it is NOT always easy.


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## goatgirl4008 (Aug 29, 2010)

Sorry bout your kid. I use to work on a very large hog farm and the vet that would come out every 3 weeks said on small less than a week old kid blunt trauma aka. a quick yet forceful whack on the concrete floor on the top or back of the head. It is harder on the person than the animal. I had to destroy a perfectly good doe kid the day she was born cause the #$%^& pigs crushed both her back legs from the hock down. It was horrible needless to say the pigs were gone the next Monday to the sale. In a kid like that it was the best option but on the larger goats a .22 shot in that swirl of hair just behind there horns pointing the gun down and toward the nose is very quick and normally a clean kill. But don't think to much about it. The first 1 we did I told myself I can do this then I started thinking about it and my husband had to do it. But it got done with 1 shot and takein care of. If there is another way on large goats I don't know about it. Again sorry for your lose. But I agree with another post love on or just sit back and watch the others play a smile will eventually come back. The baby not forgotten but knowing he's. Playing and causeing trouble across the rainbow bridge. I read another post that said not to use a .22 we have only had to use more than 1 shot on only one animal and that wasn't even a goat.  The shot placement I feel is key. But you have to find something that works for you and you feel comfortable doing. Please remember thi is my opinion and I don't know everything just sharing my experiance.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 30, 2010)

goatgirl4008 said:
			
		

> Sorry bout your kid. I use to work on a very large hog farm and the vet that would come out every 3 weeks said on small less than a week old kid blunt trauma aka. a quick yet forceful whack on the concrete floor on the top or back of the head. It is harder on the person than the animal. I had to destroy a perfectly good doe kid the day she was born cause the #$%^& pigs crushed both her back legs from the hock down. It was horrible needless to say the pigs were gone the next Monday to the sale. In a kid like that it was the best option but on the larger goats a .22 shot in that swirl of hair just behind there horns pointing the gun down and toward the nose is very quick and normally a clean kill. But don't think to much about it. The first 1 we did I told myself I can do this then I started thinking about it and my husband had to do it. But it got done with 1 shot and takein care of. If there is another way on large goats I don't know about it. Again sorry for your lose. But I agree with another post love on or just sit back and watch the others play a smile will eventually come back. The baby not forgotten but knowing he's. Playing and causeing trouble across the rainbow bridge. I read another post that said not to use a .22 we have only had to use more than 1 shot on only one animal and that wasn't even a goat.  The shot placement I feel is key. But you have to find something that works for you and you feel comfortable doing. Please remember thi is my opinion and I don't know everything just sharing my experiance.


Sharing experience is good..  

FWIW, though, the shot placement you describe is almost exactly what I did with the adult goat and the .22, and it didn't go very well..


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 30, 2010)

I used to work on a large dairy (cow) farm and we weren't allowed to shoot guns b/c there was a house fairly close to the farm.  We had to use blunt force trauma on calves that needed euthing.    It was really hard for me.


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## goatgirl4008 (Aug 30, 2010)

When it comes down to it its a part of raiseing livestock none of us like to do truthfully. But if its necessasary to do to end pain or long term suffering it is a necessary hazard of the life we have all chosen to do by raiseing livestock. I still think do what's best for you and the animal if it needs done do it the best you can. If it don't work smoothly take note maybe if you have to do it later in lifes adventure try something a little different and find what your comfortable with and capable of doing if you have to.we all love our animals and the end goal for me is a product that was handled humanely and respected while in my care. God Bless and have a good day.


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