# any ideas on sick does



## poorboys (Dec 8, 2011)

I've had three does in the last couple of weeks that have come down with scours. I've lost 2, all three different ages, no temp, bright red eyes, no other sypmtoms, I have one now who just started scouring, she has been treated with drenches of baking soda and warm water, vit B, red cell, I did give her a shot of antitoxen yesturday, she was wormed 10 days ago with ivermec and last nite with panacure. I would prefer not to lose this girl. As I said she has beautiful red eyes and gums, her scours are greeninsh puddling. no feed change on any of these goats, this one is a yearling, the other two, one was a 3 yr old the other a 6 month old, also have a doe who aborted, her tail was soaked in blood, she's a 4 year old. about her I know she'll asbord her kids, how long to wait to rebred her? Having one heck of a time here, with no out ward signs of any thing wrong. they are on pasture and get hayed, the one's who were scouring was not on feed. my yearling that is scouring is still eating her hay and is in her own pen. I am giving sour halt to the yearling, I've went thur everything I know to do, and now at the point of what is going on? I was going to give her pen-g today, and drench her again with electrolites. any input would be appreciated. thanks.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 8, 2011)

a fecal would help, didn't see it mentioned. Not that I am good about doing fecals.


Your wormers that you are using aren't very strong. My goats wouldn't respond to those wormers you have used.

Penn G shots twice a day for 5 days. 
SAfegaurd or panacur at 3x the label dosage for 5 days in a row
OR
valbazene(if not pregnant) for 3 days in a row. 
OR cydectin, or synanthic. 

Plus treat with sulfa-dimethoxine for 5 days in a row. (all at the same time)

Spectam scour halt works well to slow down the scours. If really bad, I treat with one or two treatments the first day. 


Also if really bad,
kaolin pectin also is good for soothing the stomach, 6 to 8 ounces for a treatment. this is not medicated so you can give a fair amount of it. 

But I always treat with everything else when using a product like kaolin-pectin. 

This has never failed me.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 8, 2011)

I wonder if something in your pasture is getting them. Have you had lots of rain or change in temp? I'm just wondering if something like fescue is the cause. The other one that comes to mind is rye grass.


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## elevan (Dec 8, 2011)

I agree with the posts above.  20kids has a good shotgun approach laid out (I might add oral neomycin to it myself) and as ksalvagno said, check your pasture for some plants that may be the root of the problem.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 8, 2011)

The other thing would be to make sure your hay isn't moldy at all. Can chickens or anything sit on your hayfeeders and poop in them?


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## poorboys (Dec 8, 2011)

they are all getting good hay, the chickens are at a different area so that's out, but we have had alot of rain, and some of the pasture was sitting in water, there's not much out there to eat on, there hay get's put in a covered hay feeder, not on ground. I did give my yearly some probiobics yesteruday and today, also gave her a pen G shot. She's standing up but wobbly, so I took her temp again, and it is low.,, Put a heat lamp on her, and I don't have oral neomycin, I have tylan 200 and la 200, besides pen G, and the rest of my med cabinet I pretty much have everything but that.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 8, 2011)

I would be treating her with Penn G every 8 hours for the first day or until scouring lets up, in combination with some of the other treatments. 5cc per 100lbs is the dosage we are using for the Penn G. 

Also try the magic recipee. 

Mollasses, corn syrup and corn oil. I part each, 6 to 8 ounces at a time. a couple times today.  If doe is drenching easily I add some water to it. 4 to 6 ounces. 


Do you have any kind of IV dextrose or lactating rings you can give her sub-Q????


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## Roll farms (Dec 8, 2011)

I wouldn't be deworming them at all w/ out having a fecal ran....and I'd be having a fecal ran ASAP.

Could be bacterial - fecal would show that.

If they eyelids aren't pale, then it's probably not barberpole....*could* be bankrupt worm, a fecal would show that, but it usually doesn't kill them (unless they're already weak).

If it's a gut bacteria, you need to hit them w/ a gut antibiotic - orally - AND a probiotic - to help repop. the rumen.
If a gut bug (eColi, etc)  was the problem, I would probably give them scour halt or neomycin 2x a day for 5 days.
If it's cocci, I'd use DiMethox.

It's possible it's cocci.  It's possible it's a combo of 'some' worm, and a gut bug, or some worm and cocci, or cocci and a gut bug....

Yes, the shotgun approach will fix most of the issues - won't argue w/ that.  But I would rather KNOW what it is / treat accordingly.  
The reason - if I use the antibiotic, and the gut bug isn't a problem, I'll build immunity so that if/when it IS a problem - it won't work.
Same w/ the DiMethox and dewormers.

Have you taken their temps at all?  I like to get the temp on a sick goat every few hours, b/c if it spikes, it can kill them / cause brain injury.....if it starts to spike, then I bring out the big guns.  
If it goes low, which can shut down the rumen (and kill them), I get 'em warm fast.

And, like others have said, it could be something they're eating.  I had 1 doe get listeriosis out of 30 or so many years ago from moldy hay when dh fed while I was at work.  I do not think this is listeriosis, I'm just saying there are lots of obscure bacteria out there that will randomly hit this goat, but not that one, even if they're eating the same stuff.

A fecal or the shotgun approach(es) described above, for sure.

Good luck, I hope you don't lose anymore.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 8, 2011)

if you have a salt block of any kind put it next to her water, I have had luck with even a really sick doe, enjoying a salt block and increasing their water consumption.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 8, 2011)

I would pull the goats off pasture completely and see what that does. If your pasture has been under water, then who knows what is growing out there and if there is little to eat, what the goats are resorting to eating.


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## Roll farms (Dec 8, 2011)

TSC carries neomycin and scour halt if the Pen G doesn't help.

I prefer to use those, they're aimed for gut bugs and aren't as hard on the rumen as giving Pen G orally would be.

Probios, probios, probios if you do decide to give them....2x a day.

B shot won't hurt, either....


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## poorboys (Dec 8, 2011)

okay, she's getting probios and vit B, taking a fecal in, dh is picking up the neomycin thanks,


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## poorboys (Dec 8, 2011)

it's bacterial, Have gotten the neomycin and were drenching, pen g 5 days, probioas, and strawed her down with a heat lamp, hopefully this one pulls thru, If not I might reconsider the whole thing on raising a herd of nubies, I've been doing it for years, and this one has been a hard one, I only have 6 preggos, and three are boers. Just thinking out loud. forgive me...


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 8, 2011)

We had a tough year around 4 years ago with the herd, but have managed to get them back on track. Good luck with yours. Did the vet say penn G oral or injectable?


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## 77Herford (Dec 8, 2011)

I would do the whole work up. Blood, Fecal and take samples of their feed in for testing.  See if there are any potentially toxic plants.  Unless you know that your hay is good, I would get it checked out.


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## Roll farms (Dec 8, 2011)

I know exactly how you feel, I've considered selling every goat we have and being done w/ it several times, I even did that once...

I was miserable w/out them.

Bad periods happen, don't feel responsible or like you're failing them, you've proven you care over and over and they need you.


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## poorboys (Dec 8, 2011)

went out a little while ago, my pretty black velvet got up on her feet and started sucking my finger!! I gave some more probios and a vit b shot, and drench her again with electolites. she acted like she loved it/; got her to eat a little hay, I think she knows somehow that I don't want her to die, I do have the heat lamp on her cause she had the shivers, and I think that is helping. All my other goats were staring in the stall, wishing they were getting the same treatment lol  thanks for the support and keep fingers crossed on this one. Dh thinks it was the last group of hay, the hay we just got in, looks 10x better, but I did'nt think the other hay looked that bad, but they are eating this batch alot better.  thanks.


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## Roll farms (Dec 8, 2011)

You can put an old sweatshirt or something like that on her, too, if you want.  Glad to hear she's doing better.


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## terrilhb (Dec 8, 2011)

I hope she continues to get better. Sounds like you are doing an awesome job.


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## autumnprairie (Dec 8, 2011)

terrilhb said:
			
		

> I hope she continues to get better. Sounds like you are doing an awesome job.


X2


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## poorboys (Dec 9, 2011)

this morning, she drank 20 oz of electrolites, took her meds and stood for a minute, I think i'm loseing her, her body temp has drop and she wasn't as active this morning, I believe she just lost to many fluids. this was my registered black doeling, would have been a year old next month. that's the last of totaly black does i have, I have 2 more older ones but they have white with black. Her mother was a great milker and I had big plans for this one.


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## jodief100 (Dec 9, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear of all troubles.  I hope she pulls through for you.  Get her warmed up and keep up on the fluids and Vit B.  Can you get a vet to give you some lactated ringers solution?  If it is dehydration, that is the best way to get fluids in her fast.


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## elevan (Dec 9, 2011)

I always used to be cautious about sub-q fluids because I just had never done them.  Then I decided that I was gonna save a calf no matter what I had to do.  Lactated Ringers given Sub-Q was what did it.  A world of difference very quickly...from down and dying to regaining strength within hours.

If you can get your vet to give you a bag, tubing and needles then I would be giving her fluids Sub-Q as jodief100 said.


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## Roll farms (Dec 9, 2011)

Really hoping she made it... Update??


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## poorboys (Dec 9, 2011)

went to town and came home, black velvet was gone, also another nubian doeling 7months was laying in the middle of the barn, my guess she got ran over, and she's gone, I'm whipped, stomach upset and going to bed. Hoping I can sleep tonight. thanks for everyones support, I'ts been a very bad week here.


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## terrilhb (Dec 9, 2011)

I am so sorry for your losses. I have no words for you to make you feel better.  I am just so sorry.


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## elevan (Dec 9, 2011)

I am so sorry for your losses.


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## Roll farms (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm so sorry.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 10, 2011)

I'm so sorry.


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## GoatRancher11 (Dec 12, 2011)

Just read through this entire posting b/c I think I have a sick doeling myself.  So sorry to hear this ending but no worries, tough to swallow right now but everything will be okay.  It is tough to lose any animal especially one that is literally a "kid" to us!


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