# OK, I am still confused on the feeding thing.



## jlbpooh (Sep 21, 2009)

I am getting my Nigerian Dwarf wethers on Friday. One will be 8 weeks and the other about 6 months. How do I feed wethers especially if they are still growing? I can't find anything definitive. One thing says no pelleted food is needed, other places say they need that until they are full-grown. I am so confused. I did get the Manna goat  minerals. I have gotten the ProBios since I heard it was good to give to them due to shipping stress. (They are not getting shipped though, I am picking them up myself, but same thing basically.) One place said no alfalfa, another said alfalfa. I got 2 books, but they don't really cover wethers. Any suggestions? Any other things I need to get to prevent illness from the stress of being taken away from the only places/herds they have known. Also, they are from 2 different farms. I have had very favorable comments about the husbandry at both places. Would I have to quarantine them from each other? Thank you in advance for any suggestions/comments from you experts. I am very nervous about getting them in some ways because it seems like there is quite the learning curve. Oh, their pasture will be about 1/4 for the 2 of them.


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## kimmyh (Sep 21, 2009)

If you ask 100 people how to feed you will get 100 answers. I feed straight alfalfa and creep feed (free choice) grain until they are too big to fit through the cattle panels. Which is usually around 4-6 months. From then on, I feed grain twice a day and free choice alfalfa. BUT, I am looking for the max. development, for show. If you are getting pets, you may be able to get away with a little less grain. The most important thing you need to watch is parasite-cocci and worms.


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## jlbpooh (Sep 22, 2009)

I forgot to mention that they will be pets and not be shown even though they both could be registered since their parents are.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Sep 22, 2009)

i'm with kimmyh - you'll get 97 different answers.....
;-)

there is a whole spectrum from where i am "get out there and free range cuz its FREE" to weighing and measuring food/grain and having a regimented schedule (like my neighbors). the other complicating factor is that where you live (what part of the country) also changes what to feed. 

my best advice is ask the folks you are getting them from how they feed - and do that. then make changes slowly. you'll figure out what works best for you. 

if you are in a pinch dont hestitate to call or email a local breeder and ask them what they do. i've found that goat folks are happy to share info - and i made some fun new friends that way.

good luck!


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## trestlecreek (Sep 22, 2009)

To keep wethers and to avoid stones, I feed alfalfa and for grain I use Noble goat.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 22, 2009)

Basically, I'd just make sure that the hay they're getting is balanced at least 2:1, calcium to phosphorus...  Generally, anything with a decent amount of alfalfa in it should be balanced somewhere near that given that the numbers I typically see on alfalfa has it somewhere between 6:1 and 8:1..  The higher the alfalfa content of the hay, the higher the protein % will be, and the better your Ca ratio will be..  I'd also make sure hay was their primary feed source.  

It's certainly OK to use grain provided that it's also mixed properly, and see if you can find one with ammonium chloride added..  I'd simply supplement grain as needed, starting with enough each day to get them out of your face long enough to get your chores done in the goat barn and work upward from there _if necessary_.

If the hay's good, though, they really shouldn't need much else to grow.

Clean water is essential at all times, and keep their mineral refreshed often.  Fresh mineral is utilized mineral, and mineral use encourages them to drink more water.  Drinking lots of water goes a LONG way toward preventing stones.

That's what I'd do, anyway..


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## jlbpooh (Sep 23, 2009)

Thank you for the help. I am gettting some really nice hay from my neighbor. I will try to get a week's supply of food from each farm so I can transition them to the new hay without tummy troubles. If I have the opportunity to buy a year's worth of hay at once would you do it, or would you buy a smaller quantity? I can't wait until Friday!!


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## ohiofarmgirl (Sep 23, 2009)

> , or would you buy a smaller quantity? I can't wait until Friday!!


smaller quantity.. definitely.  here's what i've learned about hay - its hard. goats are picky. what they like may not be best for them. what YOU think is wonderful - they may hate. yikes!

but on the other hand, running out is icky. 

since you are new to goats - and these are new to you goats - i'd wait. some hay guys around here will give you a bale to sample and let you come back if it works out. 

crazy goaties!


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## ksalvagno (Sep 24, 2009)

I would buy for the year. If I'm using a new hay guy, I buy a bale and see how my animals like it. If they like it, then I would buy it. If you find good hay, it usually sells quickly and then you may not find good hay when you run out. Maybe your area isn't as bad as mine. Quality hay goes fast here and by winter you can't find any. Then you are left with paying high prices for crappy hay.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 24, 2009)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> I would buy for the year. If I'm using a new hay guy, I buy a bale and see how my animals like it. If they like it, then I would buy it. If you find good hay, it usually sells quickly and then you may not find good hay when you run out. Maybe your area isn't as bad as mine. Quality hay goes fast here and by winter you can't find any. Then you are left with paying high prices for crappy hay.




Agreed, 100%.


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## Wild Wind Farm (Sep 24, 2009)

Don't forget free choice baking soda.  Good luck with you new goats, you are going to have so much fun!


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## lupinfarm (Sep 24, 2009)

We've been buying hay in 50 bale increments because we have limited storage space right now. I think I'm going to buy a round bale or 2 of Alfalfa next season though... I can't get it in small squares.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 24, 2009)

That's odd..  I can only get alfalfa in squares, as it seems nobody's willing round-bale it for sale.  Money's too good in small squares, I guess, so why bale perfectly good alfalfa in bulk and sell it at a discount when you don't have to?  

I suppose that's the logic anyway, I dunno.. 

What I _do_ know is where I can get nice big barn-stored round bales of _at least_ 30% red clover mixed with orchardgrass, bluegrass, and timothy for $25/ea, though.

mwuahahahaha!!  :evilgrin ( <-- we need an evil grin emoti.   )


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## lupinfarm (Sep 24, 2009)

Ah well Cm, only the dairy cow and beef cow (for the calves) farmers use the alfalfa here hence why it's not common to find in small squares. And if you do find it, it costs a small fortune. For instance, we could have had our field baled (we have a pasture that is almost all alfalfa) in small squares for 1.50 a bale, thats about 400 bales.. thats a heck of a lot of money, or you could have it done in 4x4 rounds for $30 a bale... You pay for convienience. 

I might buy a round bale of alfalfa later in the winter though


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## lupinfarm (Sep 24, 2009)

And actually, almost all goat owners around here feed rounds.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 24, 2009)

If I could get 4x4 rounds of alfalfa for $30, I feed nothing but rounds too!!!!!!!!



You gotta realize...small squares of alfalfa are like $7 here.  

I remember pricing large squares of alfalfa (large, as in, truckbed-sized squares) at Southern States once...I think they were almost $200/ea.


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## lupinfarm (Sep 24, 2009)

*shrug* I was looking into large squares for the horse, but in the end I couldn't get in touch with the guy who does them. The thing with alfalfa around here is that you can find alfalfa mix in small squares, but its not very high in alfalfa as its mainly used for horses.


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## jlbpooh (Sep 24, 2009)

Thank you again. I haven't seen our neighbor yet to get the hay. Since he dropped off the one bale though, I can at least see if they like it. It is from his own pasture and he had somebody square bale if for him. He only has a round baler, but already has enough hay for his cows so he is selling the square bales. Is $3 a bale reasonable? It is about a third green, is nice and dry, and has been barn stored. I know nothing about hay, but the last time I checked the price at the feed store, they wanted $6.50 a bale for hay. I am getting one of the babies tomorrow afternoon, and the lady is bringing the other one Saturday morning. Yes, I do have the baking soda too. I noticed some  people said they use it and others shy away from using it, so I wasn't sure what to do there. I have a 15 gallon water trough. I have been researching the goats diligently for 3 years and now that the time has come, I feel like I know nothing and am kind of freaking out. I am scared I am going to miss something and accidentally kill them.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 24, 2009)

$3 is very reasonable. I paid $4.50 per bale. Last year I paid $6 per bale.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 25, 2009)

jlbpooh said:
			
		

> I have been researching the goats diligently for 3 years and now that the time has come, I feel like I know nothing and am kind of freaking out. I am scared I am going to miss something and accidentally kill them.


It's a feeling you get used to.  

I'll say this, though...if you care about your goats, then your goats are already ahead of the curve.  For my money, just being as concerned and nervous as you are and your hope to be as prepared as you can be puts you at least in the top 20% of goat-owners right off the bat. 

You'll be fine.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Sep 25, 2009)

> I have been researching the goats diligently for 3 years and now that the time has come, I feel like I know nothing and am kind of freaking out. I am scared I am going to miss something and accidentally kill them.


hee hee hee you'll be fine. for all the fussin' around they are actually pretty hardy and you might have to work at killin' 'em... but on the other hand.. you might want to kill them yourself if they get out and eat all your petunias!!

hee hee hee hee just kidding

you will do great! after about a week or so you'll stop going out there every 5 mins to make sure they are ok
;-)

be sure to post pix when you get them!!!!


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## lilhill (Sep 25, 2009)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> jlbpooh said:
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## jlbpooh (Sep 25, 2009)

Thank you again for all the wonderful advice. Well, he rode very well in my lap in the car. He didn't mess in the hour and a half ride home, but boy did he make a mess in my kitchen when we brought him in the house while I was trying to find a dog collar and leash so I could bring him to his pasture. They let him nurse one last time right before we got there and he took full advantage, his little belly was round.  His buddy is coming tomorrow. We still had to put up one section of fence after we got him home. I literally pounded in the last staple and the sky opened up. I locked him in the goat house because he wouldn't stay in by himself and went in and ate dinner. After dinner I knew he was crying so I went out and sat in the goat house with him until it got dark. I made him a nice bed of straw and made sure he had plenty of hay and water. I did get a week's supply of feed and hay from the breeder. It was kind of funny, he would take one bite of their hay and then one bite of the hay I have and back and forth trying to see which one he liked better. He is a little sweety, so gentle and a cuddler. He was peeking out of the goat house watching the traffic go by. It was almost like he was thinking what wierd animals those were since he couldn't see the road at the farm he came from. When the train came through, the dingers started up and he just looked at me as if WHAT was THAT, then the train whistle blew and it started coming and he stared at it with really big eyes. I can only wonder what was going through his mind. It was interesting watching the little "ball" go up and down his neck as he was chewing and swallowing his cud. I know, I am easily amused. I am completely in love!!


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## freemotion (Sep 25, 2009)

ohiofarmgirl said:
			
		

> hee hee hee you'll be fine. for all the fussin' around they are actually pretty hardy and you might have to work at killin' 'em... but on the other hand.. you might want to kill them yourself if they get out and eat all your petunias!!


ohg, you are a hoot and a half! 

jlbpooh, being easily amused makes life a LOT of fun!  I love it when my littlest doeling burps up a cud and her cheeks pop out, then she meh-eh-eh's at me with her mouth full.....sooooo cute!


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## broke down ranch (Sep 26, 2009)

Wow, you guys are getting off CHEAP on the hay and alfalfa! A regular bale of coastal here costs $7-$9 and a small square of alfalfa is $12.50! At one point the feedstore had some very stalky not-horse-quality alfalfa that he was selling for $8 each. My goats LOVED that stuff - much more than the $12.50 stuff. If we put coastal out there they throw 80% on the ground so we aren't saving money buying the coastal at all....


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## Mini-M Ranch (Sep 26, 2009)

BDR, 

Here at the feed store, you can get alfalfa hay OR mixed grass hay for $7.35 for a 40 pound bale.

If you buy from a farmer, you can get 40 pound bales of alfalfa for $5 (And it is GOOD, top quality) or mixed grass for $3.  AND WE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PRICE!!!!!!  Thanks for giving me the reality check that we are lucky here.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Sep 26, 2009)

jlbpooh - update please! or are your arms full of goatie-luvin'????

free - hee hee hee there's been a couple times that one or two of them goats are lucky they didnt end up on the BBQ! 

one time i actually said to the worst of the lot: if you dont knock it off i will LET those dogs have you and i wont even feel bad!!!   then we just stood there and glared at each other...she finally stomped away. i swear she knew exactly what i was saying.

for their part the dogs were really hoping that i was serious - of course i wasnt! hee hee i paid too much for that rascally little goat!
;-)


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## jlbpooh (Sep 26, 2009)

I am inside again in between baby loving and drying out, lol. Youngster #2 came today, he is so pretty too. The one I got yesterday was 8 weeks old as of yesterday. This other little guy was born March 30th. I need to get pics of them at home, but the weather isn't cooperating. My camera is waterproof, but it is so gloomy that they just aren't going to look pretty. It has been a steady drizzle here then rain, back to drizzle all day. They won't stay in the goat house unless someone (as in a person) is in it with them. It is only 65 degrees after having been in the mid-80's and humid all week. Is this going to get them sick that they keep getting wet and that it is cooler out? It isn't extremely windy, but it is breezy. i have been going in their and sitting in the straw with them for awhile so they dry out, but as soon as I leave them, they just come out and stand by the gate crying. I feel so bad. Tommorrow is supposed to be mid-80's again and sunny. I will get pics as I can. I did get 50 bales of hay from my neighbor. After I stacked it all, my shed is only 2/3 full. That is good to know in case of future expansion, lol. The lady that brought my second baby today said that with the nice pasture they are in, I probably won't go through much hay. The pasture is just whatever grows, but we have vines, weeds, grass, and tree shoots in their and it is thick and green and gold. 50 bales might last me 3 years then, oops. Oh well, I bought it for $3 a bale, and can always turn around and sell it for $5 when people are scrambling to find some. It is good quality horse hay too. Well, I better check on those babies again, lol.


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## daisycullen2003 (Oct 11, 2009)

thanks for this thread.

i am wondering a few things. i am confused about what "hay" is. there seem to be so many kinds.

is it okay to feed only alfalfa plus free choice minerals and baking soda? or do i also need`to feed another type of hay? is orchard hay and alfalfa a good mix?

thanks!
lisa


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## kimmyh (Oct 11, 2009)

Yes, it is alright, and actually good for the goats to have alfalfa and minerals. They don't have to have grain unless they are pregnant, nursing, growing babies, or with bucks, in rut.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 12, 2009)

daisycullen2003 said:
			
		

> thanks for this thread.
> 
> i am wondering a few things. i am confused about what "hay" is. there seem to be so many kinds.
> 
> ...


Alfalfa/orchard grass is generally a good hay, though the proportions and quality of each make it pretty variable in terms of calciumhosphorus, protein %, etc...  Grass ups the phosphorus and lowers the protein, while alfalfa ups the calcium and raises the protein.  In other words, too much grass and your hay can be too high in phosphorus and too low in calcium and protein..  

Ideally, your hay would be at least 2:1 calciumhosphorus and about 16% protein.  If it's 50/50, grass/alfalfa, it's probably just about that..

Straight alfalfa is okay too, though, as kimmy said..  It's just more expensive.


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