# Udderly unequal udders



## savingdogs (May 10, 2011)

My does have very unequal udders, meaning I'm getting more than 3/4 of their total milk from one side consistently despite trying to milk them both out. 
They are FFs no longer nursing kids, I'm getting a good amount (about a gallon a day each from mini nubians) but it is primarily from one side every milking, both does.

Am I doing something that encourages this? Is it anything to worry about? I notice when they are full, both does are lopsided.

Also, each of the teats on my two does is totally different and I have to milk them all differently. Is that everyone else's experience? 

Udderly confused.....


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 10, 2011)

My understanding is that that's not uncommon with does that have dam raised kids.  I would think she would even out after milking for a time, but I don't have any practical experience with it.  Sorry!


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## savingdogs (May 10, 2011)

They did raise kids, but it has been over a month now since they have been nursing them. And I noted that the kids did nurse both sides. The one doe was always empty when she had the two kids with her, she rarely had any milk left for us after the two of them, but I often saw her kids nursing at the same time, so each one would have had a teat.


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## helmstead (May 10, 2011)

It could have been that, in the very beginning, the kids mainly nursed one side and the other side reduced production right away.  It's usually pretty impossible to keep an udder even when kids have had anything to do with it.  One of the does I'm showing right now had her triplets for only 24 hours, and they managed to get her a tish lopsided in that time to where I have to milk one side down a little before she enters the ring.

That production is great, though!  Imagine how they'll do if you catch the kids and milk from day 1, with even production from both halves!


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 10, 2011)

It happens and its probally cuz they favored one teat more than the other.  One may have been a stronger nurser.  I have seen that.   

I would leave the smaller teat alone for a day or so and see if it fills and evens out.  It can take a bit of time.  You may get a little less milk for a few days...but its worth a try.  I would'nt go too long not milking that teat. But I would see if it fills at all. 

Thats a great amount of milk from a mini!! Good for you!!


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## savingdogs (May 10, 2011)

Gosh I didn't think of letting it fill up on the smaller side, I thought I should be trying to milk and milk that side to make it catch up production. The "bad" side on each doe DOES produce milk, just not an amount that is equal to the other side. I noted this morning that each doe was giving approximately 3/4 of her milk from the heavier side. 

These are not show goats, just milk producers for us so I'm not too concerned about them looking lopsided, more that they be healthy and that I'm not doing something wrong with my milking procedures. These are first fresheners and I'm a new "milker" so we have been learning together and I wasn't sure if we got it right!


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## helmstead (May 10, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> I would leave the smaller teat alone for a day or so and see if it fills and evens out.  It can take a bit of time.  You may get a little less milk for a few days...but its worth a try.  I would'nt go too long not milking that teat. But I would see if it fills at all.


I strongly disagree.  That will actually cause that side to produce even less.

The only thing you can really try is milking the smaller half 3-4 times a day, to see if asking it for more will revitalize it....unlikely though.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 10, 2011)

My girl Nora was due to have twins and one of them died during the birthing..so she has ample milk for her 1 little guy.  And of course he favors one side.  So Im milking the otherside twice a day for her.  She was very lopsided to but she evened right out.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 10, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Emmetts Dairy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I strongly disagree with your disagreement...I have NEVER seen a teat dry in a 24 hour period.  Sometimes you need catch up time.  Thats my expirience...and it worked and amazingly didnt dry up. Thats why I stressed not waiting too long to NOT milk that teat..but give it sometime to fill...even 12 hours might help.


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## helmstead (May 10, 2011)

Where did I say it would dry off?

Do a little more research into the way mammary cells produce milk and what causes them to either increase or decrease production, and what signals them to stop producing all together.

BTW a 12 hour fill should be standard.  Allow more than 18 hrs, and you're GOING to loose production.


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## savingdogs (May 10, 2011)

Well the smaller doe had one large buckling. When he was with her, I did note at that time that she mostly gave milk on the right side. Now that he is gone, the right side is her "bad" side. So it seems he was mostly nursing from her left side and I have been milking her right side all along (I am getting about the same amount I used to when I was milking and sharing with the kid).

We really really enjoyed watching the kid and doe love and that experience for the kids, I don't think we would choose to bottle feed. The doeling we kept has such a close bond with her mother, it helps us free range our herd to have the strong bond, I just lead the mom Ginger to where I want them all to eat, and her sister my other doe and the doeling all stay with Ginger. We don't have pasture and I take the goats out with me on hikes on our property. Next year I hope to get a doeling to keep from the other doe. 

If I am not causing a health issue I'm not so concerned. 

I'm wondering if I tried milking them on the weak side at mid-day if that would help their production?


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## helmstead (May 10, 2011)

savingdogs said:
			
		

> I'm wondering if I tried milking them on the weak side at mid-day if that would help their production?


It might...refer back to my older post on your thread here.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 10, 2011)

Hands on and personal expirence with differant methods come into play too sometimes.  I dont have to read more on how milking glands work.  I understand the science behind it.  But as we all learn..not all goats go by the book. 

Sorry "savingdogs"  I hope this dos'nt confuse the situation more for you.  But I have actually waited on the other teat overnite...and it worked well and production was not down. I dont show my goats either, mine are used for dairy production and pets. 

Although "Kate" is also correct in discussing the science of the gland.  If untouched it can definately slow production.  But I have had some dairy goats that I had a heck of a time drying up so it does come down to the goats indivdual make up as well.

Good luck...I hope it works out for you.  And understand my suggestions are coming from my personal expirence and trial and errors Ive made myself.


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## helmstead (May 10, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> I dont show my goats either, mine are used for dairy production and pets.
> 
> And understand my suggestions are coming from my personal expirence and trial and errors Ive made myself.


Your first quote here irritates me...show goats and home dairy goats should be kept and milked by the same standard, and our show goats are also all our pets - so that comment just doesn't make a difference.

_Edited to Add:
Your quote irritates me IN GENERAL, not just because you said it.  Sooo many people think there's some huge difference between 'show' herds and 'pet' herds.  There's not, there should never be.  If a show producer doesn't look at each individual in the herd as a pet and care for it as such - they've gotten too big or are into livestock for the wrong reasons._

I would also add that I hope everyone here who posts suggestions would be doing so based off personal experience.  I certainly didn't fall off the milking truck last night...I didn't just read this stuff online and spit it back out here on the forum.  

To the OP...I don't think you're doing anything wrong, so all of this banter is moot and I apologize, and will step off the soapbox.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 10, 2011)

This is why people leave this forum. Im embarrassed that I fell into this discussion and it turned into using words like "irrated" and the such.  

My posting was not a personal attack at anyone..and I dont know how one can take these post as personal attacks.  I think people need to toughen up a bit.  I dont even know you to personally attack you Kate.  To assume someone intention or emotions in these statements are a little rash to judgement. IMO.  We were discussing differant methods to help..and it was not personal at all.  We all use differant farming methods and differances of opinions can be helpful to people trying to make decisions for their own herd.  So differances of opinions are a good thing.  I did'nt take your opinion as a personal attack when you informed me that I should read more.  Im comfortable enough with my own expirence and know what I was saying worked for my situation.  

It was not my intention when responding to your question to have this banter of wits.  

I send my deepest apologise to you "savingdogs" I never wanted this to turn into this and was just sharing with you what I did with success when it has happened to me.  Right, wrong or indifferant it is just an opinion.  

I do hope it works out for you and you are able to find a way to even out her teats.  I am really sorry. 

This uneccessary behavoir just keeps people from posting anything in fear of judgment etc...I have been looking into other goat forums for this very reason.   Its too bad cuz we all have something to give and when egos get involved it stops the good flow of discussions.


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## mossyStone (May 10, 2011)

.This uneccessary behavoir just keeps people from posting anything in fear of judgment etc...I have been looking into other goat forums for this very reason.   Its too bad cuz we all have something to give and when egos get involved it stops the good flow of discussions



I hate to see this happen as well.... 

No two goats or goat raisers do the same..it all works out in the end...


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## savingdogs (May 10, 2011)

I knew before I posted a topic that I would get differing opinions here. Isn't that the nature of raising goats?

No one need apologize to me, you have both shared your experience with a less experienced person and I appreciate this and will take into account all opinions when I make my decisions about the goats. 

I do feel bad that a thread turns into an argument so quickly. It seems like more prefacing with "in my experience" and a little agreeing to disagree would be what is needed here and realizing we all have different perspectives and that doesn't mean the other person is necessarily wrong. I appreciate that you strongly disagreed, that is okay. 

I do appreciate that show and regular goats have the same anatomy and needs but did bring up my use for these does to help you all appreciate what their purpose in life is, which is simply as milkers whom we love that clear our brush, and I don't need to worry if things look a little off kilter as I won't be selling anything except wethers for many years to come and won't exactly be photographing my does hairy udders.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 10, 2011)

savingdogs said:
			
		

> I knew before I posted a topic that I would get differing opinions here. Isn't that the nature of raising goats?
> 
> No one need apologize to me, you have both shared your experience with a less experienced person and I appreciate this and will take into account all opinions when I make my decisions about the goats.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your understanding! Appreciate your prospective on the forum.  And btw they make a tool for those hairy udders!!!


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## savingdogs (May 10, 2011)

We are building our supplies slowly......I've just managed without shavers so far! 

One further thing to throw into this question, I feel like the actual anatomy of each goats udder on each side is different. They are shaped different and I have to milk different and they have differences in how long the stream is. 

On Molly, the current "bad" side I used to call her good side because the stream I get from that side is really really really long. It takes very little time at all to milk out that side, I love it! But the teat on her other side is just smaller and the whole udder needs more bumping and massaging to get it to empty. 

The same is true on the other doe, but the differences are more slight and the side with the better stream is the current heavy side. That doe has extra teats but I don't think they make any difference for milking in her case, they are small and high and don't get in my way.


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## helmstead (May 10, 2011)

savingdogs said:
			
		

> We are building our supplies slowly......I've just managed without shavers so far!


You know what works really well?  Those $10 rechargeable beard trimmers for men at Wal Mart...great for shaving heads before disbudding, too.  AND you can hand them to your significant other with the nose hair remover tip on them when the need arises


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## savingdogs (May 10, 2011)

Wow! That would be in the budget. I know from working for vets getting a cheap shaver is no deal. I have been waiting until we can afford something good.

What brand beard trimmer?


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## helmstead (May 10, 2011)

Right now I have a Remington.  Yes, for heavy duty work (show trims, etc), you gotta jump in the deep end and buy a good pair, but for the little stuff, the beard trimmers are fine.  And at $10 to $20, who really cares if you have to replace them yearly??  It would take 15-20 years to pay for a good pair at that rate LOL.  They do fine for cleaning up long udder hair and disbudding shaves.


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## aggieterpkatie (May 10, 2011)

_In my experience _(did I get that right?  ) it doesn't matter if kids were on the doe or not, sometimes they just produce more from one side than the other. My doe's left side produces more than her right side. Doesn't bother me, doesn't matter that I milk them evenly every day. I'm not about to leave milk in the left side to get it to produce less than it is now, and I can't really find the time to milk her right side more frequently.  The only issue I can see is when I  show her I may have to milk a tad out of the left side to even the halves up a bit if it's very noticeable.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 10, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> _Edited to Add:
> Your quote irritates me IN GENERAL, not just because you said it.  Sooo many people think there's some huge difference between 'show' herds and 'pet' herds.  There's not, there should never be.  If a show producer doesn't look at each individual in the herd as a pet and care for it as such - they've gotten too big or are into livestock for the wrong reasons._


Thank you for clarifying.  Appreciate it.  It was a misunderstanding and it happens.  It was not meant to be mean to anyone.  I was just responding to her use of her goats.  And telling her I use my goats in the same manner.  Thats as simple as it is.  Sorry to offend anyone.  Not my intention. 

Water under the bridge to me.  Its all good.


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## adoptedbyachicken (May 10, 2011)

I came here to clean this thread up, but I see it's been resolved, good on you all!



We appreciate the things spoken here, and have many times said that with only typed words (lacking tone, inflection and body language) it's way too easy to misinterpret intent or meaning.  Please always consider that in reading someone's post, and before clicking post on your own.  

As for the teats I spent a great deal of time as a child at a friend's farm where they had goats they milked and they let the kids nurse till sold.  I recall asking the Mom one day why most of the milk goats had uneven udders and she told me it that it had to do with the does habit of laying down on a particular side.  She pointed out one goat who was down at the time and told me when she got up to notice the side of the udder that was down would not be as full from the pressure of her weight on it.  It did work out for that one, but I have no idea (and no goats!) if that works out most of the time.  I was just a kid with a curious question, got a answer and moved on playing with the kids.  Lots of wonderful memories there.


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## Hykue (May 11, 2011)

I actually was coming here to post about this very thing . . .

My doe, Dash, has a very uneven udder.  She is a FF, 8 days fresh, and at about 3 days fresh she found something to cut her right teat on . . . probably the place where she chooses to squeeze through a barbed wire fence (from which we've now removed the bottom wire) rather than walk 20 feet to go through the always-open gate.  The barbed wire was already here, incidentally, and I don't expect it to keep goats contained, but it is somewhat useful for the donkeys, so I don't want to rip it out entirely.

Anyway, she got a cut just above her teat and a scratch right down the front of the teat.  I soon noticed that her right side (the scratched side) was getting much bigger than the left, and thought perhaps it was sore enough that she wasn't letting her kids nurse off of it.  I checked to make sure it wasn't clogged or anything, and it wasn't, but she did seem to kick at the kids once when they would start to suck on that side.  She's a milk goat, that's the only reason we got her (although she makes a fantastic pet as well), so I didn't want her to dry up on that side, and I wanted to learn to milk, so I started milking that side - it was always visibly much fuller than the other side.  I saw the kids drinking from the "empty" side pretty regularly, and some from the scratched/full side.  After a couple of days I tried to milk the smaller side, realizing that I did want to maintain production in both sides . . . I couldn't get more than a couple of tiny squirts out.  It looks fine when it comes out, nice milk, but that side feels pretty empty and the teat is smaller and I just can't get almost anything out of it.

Are the kids just emptying it out?  I am leaving them on her all the time until they're a couple of weeks old.  Or are they maybe drinking mostly from the scratched side, so all of her production is concentrated in that one half?  I'm so confused.  I'm still not good enough at milking to do it with both hands at once (or my left hand at all, really), and I have to be careful milking the scratched teat to not hurt her (she scratched it again just yesterday), so I've just been milking her one side really, but I don't know if that's the right thing to do or if it's likely to cause her other side to dry up.  The scratched side gave me 1 pound of milk today, with kids on all the time and poor milking technique (still) on my part.  I didn't even try the other side today because she was finished her grain by the time I finished the one side, but in previous days the production would have been more like 2 teaspoons, even when I really tried, with massage, "butting" with my hand, and trying different techniques for the actual milking part.  Should I just keep trying different things?  The same things in the hopes that it can bring production up?  Should I concentrate on the "low production side" or the high production side, or make a point of doing both?  I'm so confused.

I wish my eight-year-old experienced doe had kidded first, then I wouldn't be so worried that I would screw up her udder for life by doing something wrong now.


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## savingdogs (May 11, 2011)




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## Emmetts Dairy (May 12, 2011)

I think the kids are drinking from the empty side.  I would put some udder balm or something on the cut udder to keep it soft and clean.  And I would try your best to milk her full udder.  She needs some relief Im sure.


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