# breeding lionhead and a rex, bad combination?



## 21

Hi! Lately ive been getting really intersted in rabbits and spending alot of time with my brothers female rex rabbit, shes basically mine. I thought about breeding her and ive been looking up other rabbit breeds and im stuck on the teddy lionheads, theyre so cute! But ive heard that breeding these two breeds is bound to be a mess. But im not sure. Also would the kits turn out better if i bred my rex with jutst a double mane lionhead (wont be as much fur)? And if both of those arent good options then what about breeding my rex with a lop eared? Those are pretty cute as well but i heard are prone to ear infections so im not sure if its a good idea.


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## crazyturkeydesigns

Whatever you decide to do, make sure you breed a smaller buck to a larger doe. Other way around could result in difficulties in delivery, leading to loss of the litter and/or the doe. 
I've got no clue about lionheads, but I do know that rex fur is recessive, so you'd likely get all normal-furred kits out of a cross like that.


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## 21

Thank you! Im just scared the fur is going to come out all mutated since theyre so different lol. And yes i heard to make sure the buck is smaller for safety. I put up another post you should respond and help me out!


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## bluemini

21 said:
			
		

> Thank you! Im just scared the fur is going to come out all mutated since theyre so different lol. And yes i heard to make sure the buck is smaller for safety. I put up another post you should respond and help me out!


I dont think anything would be wrong with the fur . And yeah def. make sure the buck is smaller.


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## 21

I had emailed a worker from another website and she said she thinks it would turn out a mess and that those two breeds arent typically bred, but thats why im here to get other feed back! I thought they would turn out rather strange too though because lionheads fur nd a rexs fur are totally different. But i could be wrong, thanks for the help!


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## bluemini

21 said:
			
		

> I had emailed a worker from another website and she said she thinks it would turn out a mess and that those two breeds arent typically bred, but thats why im here to get other feed back! I thought they would turn out rather strange too though because lionheads fur nd a rexs fur are totally different. But i could be wrong, thanks for the help!


I havent had both breeds,but I have seen a litter and they were fine. I would also like more info on this topic,I have a mini rex buck and I had planned to get a lionhead doe to go with him .But I dont want to if they will turn out strange :/


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## 21

Did the kits turn out having fur like the lionhead or more like the rex? Lol and i guess theres only one way to find out! I think im going to try it. The only reason i would would be be ause i have never done this before and it may be simpler to just breed a rex with a rex. And as for what that lady said, maybe shes wrong! Could be a huge chance because so far shes the only one who said the kits would come out odd looking.  And even if the kits do look a little funny ill still love em cus looks arent everything and i bet we look alil funny to them too!


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## bluemini

21 said:
			
		

> Did the kits turn out having fur like the lionhead or more like the rex? Lol and i guess theres only one way to find out! I think im going to try it. The only reason i would would be be ause i have never done this before and it may be simpler to just breed a rex with a rex. And as for what that lady said, maybe shes wrong! Could be a huge chance because so far shes the only one who said the kits would come out odd looking.  And even if the kits do look a little funny ill still love em cus looks arent everything and i bet we look alil funny to them too!


Some had rex fur and some had a mane like a lionhead . You can also search the mix of the 2 breeds online,I also did that . Haha im sure we do  

 I probley will too,but I cant get my lionhead until june .  I would just get another minirex but the only breeder around here I can find with papered rabbits just has lionheads .


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## bluemini

I just searched them and found a litter of them,most of which had the mane of a lionhead . When I get my doe,im probley going to try it also . 

Also about breeding your rex to a lop eared rabbit,they will probley have ears that are not lop but no straight up either, or one sraight up and one down just depends I guess, cant think of the name for it .  I have had holland,french and mini lops and never had ear problems out of them but every rabbit is different,hope this helps .


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## 21

Oh thats too bad you cant find a different breeder. Here its hard to find lionheads with or without papers, and my rex doe we had jus got from petco. She didnt come with papers and is probably mixed but its ok im not doing this professionally or anything. But for the buck i would want papers and to know its true to its kind so i can make sure i get the kits i expected. Lol i cant do mine until june or july as well! Saving up the money for the cage and things and the rabbit itself. Hmm. The lop rexs sound kind of cute. And thats good to hear that they arent prone to ear infections. Ill have to decide which breed to choose now, thanks for all your hel


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## 21

Also in the chance that you breed your rabbits before me (which will probably happen) let me know how it goes! If you still decide to do the lionhead and rex upload some pictures! Even if you dont choose those still upload the pics cus theyre going to be cute  lol


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## bluemini

Your welcome,and I will upload pics . We dont have any petstores,well we have one about an hour away but he is really expensive but always has mini rex rabbits,so if the lionheads dont work out I will go to the petstore .  Good luck


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## Bunnylady

The gene that causes the rex coat is recessive, so if you cross a rex to any rabbit that doesn't carry a rex gene, you'll get normal-furred kits. The gene that causes the lionhead coat is dominant, so if a rabbit inherits the lionhead gene, it will show it. 

If someone crossed a rex-coated rabbit to a rabbit with a lionhead coat and got rex-coated babies, then the lionhead was carrying a rex gene. Since this lionhead was a cross, it also makes sense that only some of the babies wound up with manes, too. 

Teddy lionheads have lots of wool. If you cross a lionhead, even a teddy, to a rabbit that doesn't have a lionhead gene, you will get single-maned offspring. Most of them will wind up losing most of the mane by the time they are adults, probably just having a few wisps around the head and ears. They may be lionheads by some people's definition, but they won't have the big, poofy mane that pretty much defines the breed.   

There is also the matter of type. Lionheads are supposed to have a compact, upright body, much like a Netherland Dwarf in type. Rex rabbits are bigger and longer, with a more horizontal body type. Crossing the two would result in a rabbit with type somewhere between the two.

The type issue comes up when you cross to a lop, as well. What you will have will be cross bred rabbits with normal coats. They will probably have some ear control, but the heads will likely be a bit wider than the head of a rex. Most likely, the rabbits' ears will tend to fall when the rabbit is relaxed, but not go all the way down like a purebred lop's ears would.


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## 21

@blue mini    good luck to you too! Lol lets see how this turns out...


@bunnylady   youve given alot of good advice thank you. I think if anything i would breed my rex to a lop, hopefully obtain somewhat of the popular plush lop i just discovered. You say that if i do this the heads would come out a little larger, im ok if the bodies dont come out "perfect" or not what they are suppose to look like because i am not entering these bunnies in any competition im doing it soley for the experience. My only concern is will this be harmful to the kits? And major deformities? And also, if i breed my kits to eachother, or a kit to the mother and keep up this pattern, eventually will i obtain the plush lop look or just cause a mess?


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## Bunnylady

The kits shouldn't be "deformed;" there is nothing harmful to the rabbits about mixing breeds. But like I said, in the first generation, all of the kits will have normal coats, and probably some (or even total) ear control. If you took one of the kits and bred it back to the doe, some of the babies would get rex coats. Some people will tell you that about half of the kits will. Actually, what the ratios mean is that each baby has a 50/50 chance of having the rex coat. So, in a litter of, say, 8 kits, all of them could have rex coats, or none of them; you could have one rex and 7 normal, 2 rex and 6 normal, etc - there is no telling when your numbers are that small. If you could do the cross enough times to get 1000 babies from it, approximately 500 would have rex coats, and roughly 500 would have normal coats.

If you were to take two of the babies from this cross, and breed them together, then things get a bit more interesting. Remember, the odds really only play out when you are dealing with large numbers - a litter or two is too small a group to expect the ratios to be perfect. The odds are: 25% normal fur, without a rex gene; 50% normal fur, with a rex gene; and 25% rex coats. In a litter of 8, you may get several rexes, or none; either result is normal for a sample group that is that small. The problem, of course, is that the kits with 2 normal genes, and those with 1 normal gene and 1 rex gene will look alike. The only ones you can be absolutely sure have the rex gene, will be those that are born with rex coats. 

Breeding back to the rex parent will most likely give you a higher percentage of rex babies, but of course, it increases the rex type in the babies. Babies from a lop x rex that are then bred back to a rex will likely have total ear control, and heads that are only slightly wider than the original rex parent. Not really what you want, if you are trying to create rex coated lops. Getting a good, wide head and ears that go down would probably need more influence from the lop; but the rex coat goes bye-bye in the next generation again. If you breed two babies from the original cross together, you might just get lucky, and get more lop type and the rex coat on the same babies - but then again, pigs may fly!  My experience leads me to warn, that what you want is usually the last thing you see. Most likely, you will get some babies with good ear control, some with poor ear control (more lop type) some with normal coats and some with rex coats; but whether the lop ears you are looking for and the rex coat you are looking for wind up on the same baby is just a matter of luck.

It is perfectly possible to get rex-coated lops, of course; there are a bunch of people that have done it. [The Velveteen Lop (a scaled-down English Lop with the rex coat) is being developed and has been under consideration for recognition by the American Rabbit Breeders Association] You just keep doing the crosses, keep the animals that show the best combination of coat and type, and get rid of the rest. The problem is, it won't happen in a single generation; maybe not even in 4 or 5 generations. In the meantime, how many rabbits can you keep? What do you do with the extras? And of course, how many generations of inbreeding can you reasonably do without risking health problems? When you outcross, what do you cross to? It can get nutsy, and you can easily lose focus if you wind up filling your rabbitry with rabbits that you love too much to get rid of, that don't get you any further toward your goal.

Good luck!


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## bluemini

bluemini said:
			
		

> 21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! Im just scared the fur is going to come out all mutated since theyre so different lol. And yes i heard to make sure the buck is smaller for safety. I put up another post you should respond and help me out!
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think anything would be wrong with the fur . And yeah def. make sure the buck is smaller.
Click to expand...

Forgot to post this yesterday but , I sold someone a netherland dwarf (3lbs) then bought her back last summer,and he had bred her to a new zealand cross that was about 8 pounds or more(i had no idea) . All the babys were born dead and one took 2 days to be born,I had no idea,I thought she had them all.   She was fine but it was a horrible experience .   

So make sure that whatever breeds you pick,that the buck is smaller or the same size .


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## currycomb

you will loose the rex fur when you do not breed to a rex or a carrier of the rex gene. you will get bunnies with a bit of a mane to some looking full lionhead. you do not need a pedigreed rabbit to do what you are wanting. the lop ear rex is called a plush lop. hubby is working on that. has his first generations old enough to breed. will see what happens with that!


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## 21

@ bunnylady   thank you for all this advice you are a life saver!!
@ bluemini      oh thats terrible to hear im sorry. And yes ive heard to always make sure the buck is smaller when breeding but i dont really know why i just know youre  suppose to.

@ currycomb     thank you for the info! But from what im hearing it sounds better and easier to go for the lop and rex. And i hope all goes well for you and your husband in your efforts to obtain the plush lop!


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## yankee'n'moxie

Bunnylady said:
			
		

> The type issue comes up when you cross to a lop, as well. What you will have will be cross bred rabbits with normal coats. They will probably have some ear control, but the heads will likely be a bit wider than the head of a rex. Most likely, the rabbits' ears will tend to fall when the rabbit is relaxed, but not go all the way down like a purebred lop's ears would.


I don't have a rex, or know anything about them, but I just wanted to comment on this. I have a Mini-Lop crossed with Flemish, and her ears are just as you described!  One up, one down when I bought her, then the next day they where both down, and now they are both up! Depends on her mood!!


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## PinkFox

21, mabe you should start off with 1 breed of rabbit first, if you like the rex breed her to a rex.

theres alot of work that goes into developing a type for a mixed breed...

your lion head x rex mix would look like lionheads for the most part, theyd have the wrong body structure to be lionheads but they otherwise wouldnt look any different...
youd have to breed one of those liohead x rex babies BACK to a rex to even think about getting the rex coat, and even then its not guarenteed and by then youll prbably have lost the mane, giving you babies that look like every other mixed breed...

in terms of the plush lops, this is a project im personally interested in getting involved in myself and have done ALOT of reading into this.
again rex coat is resessive so breding a rex to a lop of any kind will give you a NORMAL haired rabbit...body srtucture and head would look somewhere between a lop and a rex and the ears would be somewhere in the middle (1 up 1 down, airplane or up when alert down when relaxed...)

in order to get the proper lop ears wiht the true rex coat youre going to have to breed multiple generations or rex to lop and rex x lop to rex x lop to get that combination of ears and coat.  its not somehting that happens in 1 generation and theres a reaosn plush lops are hard to find...take a lot of work, multiple generatins and some clue as to how the genetics work to even consider such a project.
so my biggest question to you is...
if your new to breeding rabbits...why get into such a project right away? why not get involed in the fancy first, go to some shows get to know other breeders mabe get a couple more rex and "perfect" your rex line...then if after a couple years your still interested in plush and velveteen lops, youll at least have a better understanding of the technicalities.

just dont want you thingking hey ill breed this to this and get this and then get discouraged because the result isnt what you thought it woudl be...
and if your looking into the pet market remember Mixed breed bunnies are a dime a dozen...youll get much better sales price on good quality purebred bunnies with pedigrees...


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## 21

@   Yankee'n'moxie   aww! Your rabbit sounds so cute!

@  pinkfox      breeding two breeds jut doesnt sound all that complicated to me is why. Just as you have, ive endulged many many hours into reading and researching so i know a good deal of what to do and "no no's" i know its not the same as actually experiencing it, but still, its pretty close. I dont intend on getting that deeply involved in rabbits as to go to competitions and achieve the "perfect" rabbit type. Rather just maybe have a few litters for fun and sell the kits.  If it works out well maybe keep breeding here and there and sell them for some extra cash, and ill just be selling the kits to the kids don the street or the aunt buying a pet for her neices birthday. Average people who wont expet this perfect show rabbit, so i should be ok.


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## ohiogoatgirl

just found a video that has a doe in it that is half lionhead and half rex. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTnI...DvjVQa1PpcFM_tweb9h42fHqNxzmS9ZrI5S3W-vxFb6k=


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## bluemini

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evGNGYgcyDY heres some lionhead/mini rex mixed babys . They look fine lol


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## 21

Aww theyre so cute!! Thank you : )


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## PinkFox

breeding different breeds together to get mutts ISNT difficult if your only goal is to put 2 rabbits together and get baby rabbits...

However if your trying to breed for certain traits, it can be exceedingly difficult, hence trying to figure out why youd want to breed mixes...
mixed breed bunnies are a dime a dozen, people can barely GIVE them away around here so unless your breeding for specific traits (or are willing to keep/eat the ones that dont find homes) i guess i just dont see the point...
it wont do the babies any harm any more than breeding a black rabbit to a white rabbit would (unless theres a big size difference between the male and female)
but its also not going to give you bunnies with a rex coat OR a good lionhead mane, so theyd jus tlook like eveyr other mixed bred bunny...

nothing wrong with that assuming youve got a plan for any that dont sell...


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## Bennett Webster & Paisley

I have a female 1 year old lion head I got not too long ago from someone who had to move and couldn't keep her.. Anyways, I also have two male buck rabbits as well- one of which is a mini Rex and the other is a harlequin cross both are still under a year old right now and live with each other, my doe lives separately. I've been debating on breeding the lion head to my mini Rex or not. Just stumbled upon this forum, and thought I would check it out. After reading some of your replies I have decided to breed them together this spring! But just a quick question, since my bucks live together and I take the mini Rex out for however long to mate with Paisley(lionhead female) and then put him back with the the buck, will he smell her on him ad try to fight? Anyone had problems with that? Also, how long should I have my mini Rex live with the lionhead to make a successful mate? This is my first time breeding so just wondering. Thanks!


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## P.O. in MO

I have only been raising rabbits for a year but this is what Storey's Guide to Raising rabbits has to  say about this:
It has been reported that the female rabbit has no cycle and is fertile 365 days a year.  It has also been reported that the female rabbit is fertile for 12 days, followed by 2 to 4 days during which she will not conceive, followed by another dozen days when she will.  Either way, cycle or no a doe will conceive most of the time.  It is known that the doe rabbit's eggs descend for fertilization  upon sexual stimulation: in other words, after service.  This process takes 8 to 10 hours, at which time the eggs meet the sperm and conception takes place.  

He also goes on to say that you shouldn't leave your buck and doe together unattended as they may fight (which definitely can happen). He recommends bringing the doe to the bucks cage and waiting until there are 2 successful matings and removing the doe.   Coming back 8 to 10 hours later and repeating the process.  From my own experience rabbits sometimes don't want to cooperate with my plans for breeding them and I reached a point with one of my does where I violated this advice.  She would run around the cage and hunker down and flatly refuse to have anything to do with him.  I think I set out there for 2 hours in the morning waiting for 2 successful matings and that evening after an hour and a half I just left them together and went to bed.  I should add that she was not attacking the buck to fend him off so I hoped for the best.  The nest morning I put her back in her cage and 31 days later had a litter.  

As for your first question about the 2 bucks fighting, I have no experience with that situation so hopefully someone else can answer that question for you.  Good luck,


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## VickieB

I've only been breeding rabbits since last spring, so I'm still a novice. But you said something that did concern me. You mentioned bringing the buck to the doe's cage. The females are pretty territorial. Everything I have read has said not to do that, but to bring the doe to the buck's cage.  I had taken some kits out of a cage once while weaning the mother. A week or two later I was working on the cage the kits were in and I grabbed one and put it temporarily with the mother in her cage. I can't remember what I was doing but I was focused more on the kit's cage when I heard a ruckus in the doe's cage. I looked up and saw the doe chasing the kit, and the look in her eyes told me to get that kit out then, or he was going to be killed. I've since learned NOT to put any rabbit into a doe's cage, other than the doe herself. (This does not include the young kits, as they are born in the cage and stay there until weaned). I would, though, make sure that only the buck you wanted to breed her with is in the cage when you put her in with him.


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## BUNNIES101

I just mated my lion mane and mini Rex rabbits.  In return, we recieved 4 beutiful babies, that all received the mini Rex' a coat, but they all have different body shapes. Two are bigger like the mother lion head. One is exactly like the mini Rex dad, and the other one is the runt, so he is tiny, with really thin fur. So cute!


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## BUNNIES101

VickieB said:


> I've only been breeding rabbits since last spring, so I'm still a novice. But you said something that did concern me. You mentioned bringing the buck to the doe's cage. The females are pretty territorial. Everything I have read has said not to do that, but to bring the doe to the buck's cage.  I had taken some kits out of a cage once while weaning the mother. A week or two later I was working on the cage the kits were in and I grabbed one and put it temporarily with the mother in her cage. I can't remember what I was doing but I was focused more on the kit's cage when I heard a ruckus in the doe's cage. I looked up and saw the doe chasing the kit, and the look in her eyes told me to get that kit out then, or he was going to be killed. I've since learned NOT to put any rabbit into a doe's cage, other than the doe herself. (This does not include the young kits, as they are born in the cage and stay there until weaned). I would, though, make sure that only the buck you wanted to breed her with is in the cage when you put her in with him.


Yes. When I was mating my rabbit for the 1st time, we put the buck in the doe's cage, immediately, the Dow started tackling the buck. I removed home and tried out in the open on our floor, and they succsesfully mated


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## BUNNIES101

This is one of our 4 week old lion head+ mini Rex kits!


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## Mirandanik

I have an Angora Mini Rex mixed with a Lionhead Lop. Mom was a white angora mini rex and dad was a lionhead lop who I'm pretty sure was the result breeding of a lionhead lop and flemmish giant if I remember correctly. I saw him when I got my bun, he was a pretty big lionhead lop who was brown and white or grey and white I forget but my bunny is black and has very long silky fur like a long haired cat and it's very smooth and shiny. I got her back in March and so far she's not too awful big, stretched out maybe 12 inches long. Personally I love her she has some grey fluffy tufts by her tail.


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## messybun

Mirandanik said:


> I have an Angora Mini Rex mixed with a Lionhead Lop. Mom was a white angora mini rex and dad was a lionhead lop who I'm pretty sure was the result breeding of a lionhead lop and flemmish giant if I remember correctly. I saw him when I got my bun, he was a pretty big lionhead lop who was brown and white or grey and white I forget but my bunny is black and has very long silky fur like a long haired cat and it's very smooth and shiny. I got her back in March and so far she's not too awful big, stretched out maybe 12 inches long. Personally I love her she has some grey fluffy tufts by her tail.View attachment 77506View attachment 77507View attachment 77508View attachment 77509View attachment 77510View attachment 77511View attachment 77512View attachment 77513


Gorgeous maining, I’m jealous!


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## Dansnail93

21 said:


> Also in the chance that you breed your rabbits before me (which will probably happen) let me know how it goes! If you still decide to do the lionhead and rex upload some pictures! Even if you dont choose those still upload the pics cus theyre going to be cute  lol


I Bred My Female LionHead To My Male Rex And She Had The Cutest Babies They Have The Fur Of The LionHead And The Color And Markings Of The Rex They Are So Adorable


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