# Breed and sex?



## mamabun (Dec 16, 2016)

Hi all,

New to this group. I have 2 bunnies that I think are Chinchilla mix, I need help to confirm. Raising for meat rabbits. Also What I thought was a male, is actually a female, so embarrassed. Anyhow I have been monitoring their behaviours and 1 was constantly jumping over the wall to be with the other. It was fatter and loked like female parts, so I thought it was female; pregnant? But it lets me pick it up. The other is so skittish and not letting me touch it or pick it up and its not eating. When I got them separated for the 4th time this week I checked the scared one for sex and it really looks like 2 babies hanging off of her underside. I didn't get a pic because she is stressed now. She just had her last litter at previous owners around Dec. 6. Could she be having another batch so soon? I have locked her in a cage now, if she is indeed my female. 


Thanks from Mamabun!


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## Latestarter (Dec 16, 2016)

Greetings and welcome to BYH. There's a lot of info and knowledge shared in the various rabbit threads, but I can't recall ever reading anything like this.  I'll tag a couple of our (many) Rabbiteers and hopefully they'll be able to help you. @Bunnylady @samssimonsays @DutchBunny03 @LukeMeister @Shorty @Kaye @promiseacres @Hens and Roos  And the list goes on... We have quite a few active rabbiteers here   Please make yourself at home and browse around the forum. If you have questions, please do post and someone should get back to you pretty quickly. Thanks for sharing the pics!  Pics are ALWAYS welcome! Glad you joined us.


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## samssimonsays (Dec 16, 2016)

Welcome from northern Minnesota ,! I believe theu look like chins. @Bunnylady know a lot as well. A baby woukd be very hard to mistake. They are bigger than a thumb in larger breeds.


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## Hens and Roos (Dec 16, 2016)

Welcome  glad you joined us! Pretty colored rabbits, not sure what breed they are.  Did she lose the litter that she had around Dec 6th?  It takes 28-32 days once a rabbit is bred to potentially have kits.  Hopefully @Bunnylady will post soon!


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## DutchBunny03 (Dec 16, 2016)

Welcome to BYH!! If your rabbits are about 6 pounds, you have standard Chinchillas. They are beautiful rabbits! Here is a link on how to check a rabbit's sex easily: http://www.raising-rabbits.com/sexing-rabbits.html
Rabbits are physically capable of rebreeding in less than a few minutes after kindling, so it is possible she is pregnant, if she really is a she.


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## Bunnylady (Dec 16, 2016)

Welcome to BYH!

Looking at your two pictures, I would say that the one on the left (the first of the two pictures) is the male, and the one on the right the female. Male rabbits' heads are just a bit broader and more massive than those of their female counterparts, so if these are the same breed (or the same cross) the broader, bigger head should be the male. When you were looking at this rabbit, was there any blood or evidence of any other fluids in the fur around the genitals? If you are really unfamiliar with rabbit anatomy, is there any chance that what you were looking at could be the buck's testicles?






This is what a newborn rabbit looks like (from the front, anyway).

There is a remote possibility that your doe didn't deliver all of the kits from the first litter, and was passing what remained of a stuck kit (or kits) . . . .

I am also very concerned about your rabbit not eating. There is a potentially lethal condition known as GI (Gastrointestinal) stasis. Basically, the digestive system shuts down. It takes a rabbit about three days to starve to death, and it can be quite a battle getting one going again when they quit.

As to breed, I'm most inclined to think Standard Chinchillas.


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## mamabun (Dec 16, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Greetings and welcome to BYH. There's a lot of info and knowledge shared in the various rabbit threads, but I can't recall ever reading anything like this.  I'll tag a couple of our (many) Rabbiteers and hopefully they'll be able to help you. @Bunnylady @samssimonsays @DutchBunny03 @LukeMeister @Shorty @Kaye @promiseacres @Hens and Roos  And the list goes on... We have quite a few active rabbiteers here   Please make yourself at home and browse around the forum. If you have questions, please do post and someone should get back to you pretty quickly. Thanks for sharing the pics!  Pics are ALWAYS welcome! Glad you joined us.



Thank you so much for sharing and the welcome. Hoping to learn a lot fom everyone here. Thank you!


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## mamabun (Dec 16, 2016)

samssimonsays said:


> Welcome from northern Minnesota ,! I believe theu look like chins. @Bunnylady know a lot as well. A baby woukd be very hard to mistake. They are bigger than a thumb in larger breeds.


Thank you!


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## mamabun (Dec 16, 2016)

Hens and Roos said:


> Welcome  glad you joined us! Pretty colored rabbits, not sure what breed they are.  Did she lose the litter that she had around Dec 6th?  It takes 28-32 days once a rabbit is bred to potentially have kits.  Hopefully @Bunnylady will post soon!


Yes apparantly they were all dead.


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## mamabun (Dec 16, 2016)

DutchBunny03 said:


> Welcome to BYH!! If your rabbits are about 6 pounds, you have standard Chinchillas. They are beautiful rabbits! Here is a link on how to check a rabbit's sex easily: http://www.raising-rabbits.com/sexing-rabbits.html
> Rabbits are physically capable of rebreeding in less than a few minutes after kindling, so it is possible she is pregnant, if she really is a she.


Thank you. They are actually closer to 4 pounds. Thank you for your post and the link.


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## mamabun (Dec 16, 2016)

Bunnylady said:


> Welcome to BYH!
> 
> Looking at your two pictures, I would say that the one on the left (the first of the two pictures) is the male, and the one on the right the female. Male rabbits' heads are just a bit broader and more massive than those of their female counterparts, so if these are the same breed (or the same cross) the broader, bigger head should be the male. When you were looking at this rabbit, was there any blood or evidence of any other fluids in the fur around the genitals? If you are really unfamiliar with rabbit anatomy, is there any chance that what you were looking at could be the buck's testicles?
> 
> ...



Thank you BunnyLady. I thought the same as you at first. The one in the first picture is smaller, skittish, eating very little of pellet but eating lettuce, today hasn't eaten any pellet just lettuce. And the second photo the one in the cage was always jumping over the wall, eating all it's food even the odd treat, very active, didn't mind me picking it up. It is bigger. 
When I separated them and checked sex, the one I think is male when moved to the other side urinated on the blanket. However the smaller one that I think is the female is always hiding and running to get away. It had these 2 brownish sacks hanging or stuck to her the size/length of my thumb. Her last litter was around December 6th and they were all dead I was told. I understand their testicles are the size of cashews, These were bigger.


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## Kaye (Dec 16, 2016)

Wow. My very first thought was prolapse, but @Bunnylady has more experience than I do, and I trust her opinions. It very well could be an 'unfinished' litter. 
Are the breeding pair related?? Sibling to sibling can cause defects and deformities in the offspring. This could be why the litter died. 
I wish we had a picture to work with. Besides of the cute little Chinchillas. Is it an appendage?? Or does this look like something that isn't part of the rabbit??


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## Kaye (Dec 16, 2016)

Could you get a picture??


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## mamabun (Dec 16, 2016)

Kaye said:


> Wow. My very first thought was prolapse, but @Bunnylady has more experience than I do, and I trust her opinions. It very well could be an 'unfinished' litter.
> Are the breeding pair related?? Sibling to sibling can cause defects and deformities in the offspring. This could be why the litter died.
> I wish we had a picture to work with. Besides of the cute little Chinchillas. Is it an appendage?? Or does this look like something that isn't part of the rabbit??


Oh dear I hope they're not related. She is resting now so tomorrow I will post a picture if she will let me hold her again. It looks like something not part of the rabbit.


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## Kaye (Dec 16, 2016)

Please do. Maybe someone will be able to just look at the picture and tell you exactly what is going on. 

Also, if you're going to try to raise meat rabbits I suggest keeping a journal. I have one and look back constantly to remember things like due dates and when the kits should be opening their eyes. It really does help a lot to have it there when you acquire more buns. 
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/kayes-bunny-journal.34547/


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## mamabun (Dec 16, 2016)

Kaye said:


> Please do. Maybe someone will be able to just look at the picture and tell you exactly what is going on.
> 
> Also, if you're going to try to raise meat rabbits I suggest keeping a journal. I have one and look back constantly to remember things like due dates and when the kits should be opening their eyes. It really does help a lot to have it there when you acquire more buns.
> http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/kayes-bunny-journal.34547/



My husband said he will take the picture while I hold her. I will post them tomorrow (Saturday). That is a great idea about the journal. It will help a great deal, thank you!


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## mamabun (Dec 16, 2016)

Kaye said:


> Please do. Maybe someone will be able to just look at the picture and tell you exactly what is going on.
> 
> Also, if you're going to try to raise meat rabbits I suggest keeping a journal. I have one and look back constantly to remember things like due dates and when the kits should be opening their eyes. It really does help a lot to have it there when you acquire more buns.
> http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/kayes-bunny-journal.34547/



Love your baby bunny pictures and pics with your dog!


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## Latestarter (Dec 16, 2016)

To start your journal, scroll down the opening forum page and in the bottom section, "Social", you'll see a sub section that says member journals. If you open that link, at the top you'll see a button to "Post New Thread" that's the one to push and it will open a new page with a spot for your title (must start with your screen name) and a text box to start typing your opening post!   There's also an already existing thread there with a "how to" do a journal article.


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> To start your journal, scroll down the opening forum page and in the bottom section, "Social", you'll see a sub section that says member journals. If you open that link, at the top you'll see a button to "Post New Thread" that's the one to push and it will open a new page with a spot for your title (must start with your screen name) and a text box to start typing your opening post!   There's also an already existing thread there with a "how to" do a journal article.


This is great, I was trying to find something like a journal and this will do good, thank you.
Mama didn't cooperate very good so picture isn't great. The little sacks were moving around while I was holding her. So think I figured it out she is the female and she is indeed pregnant. Now to wait and see when she delivers. Maybe the last owner was mistaken in her having a litter or it was from a previous one because these definitely look like baby sacks attached to her. Last night there was 2 longer ones outside her and today they were smaller but moving around. Do you think so too. I wish I got a picture last night, it might have been clearer. I can't take anymore because she is upset now. I will just leave her be and watch her closely.


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## promiseacres (Dec 17, 2016)

Hi.
 Hard to see your picture but it really sounds to me as if that's the buck. Testicles on a 6# rabbit will be larger than cashews. My 7.5# bucks testicles can be seen when he is just sprawled out relaxing. Also are you aware you cannot see the buck's penis unless you put some pressure beside their gentiles?  So many people assume they have does because you can't see the penis.
  Kits don't normally attach to their mothers.


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

promiseacres said:


> Hi.
> Hard to see your picture but it really sounds to me as if that's the buck. Testicles on a 6# rabbit will be larger than cashews. My 7.5# bucks testicles can be seen when he is just sprawled out relaxing. Also are you aware you cannot see the buck's penis unless you put some pressure beside their gentiles?  So many people assume they have does because you can't see the penis.
> Kits don't normally attach to their mothers.



Yes it was hard to get a picture too. Would the buck run from me and not want me to hold it? If buck testicles are the length and width of my thumb then it's possibel that's what they are, but these today were moving around inside the sacks. Geesh identifying sexes is hard to do. Oh and yesterday I switched the rabbits, putting them on separate sides from each other. This morning the one in the cage is locked inside and the other jumped over to her side, this is what makes me think he is the male. A female wouldn't be that aggressive to be with the male would she?


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## Bunnylady (Dec 17, 2016)

I don't know how to break this to you, but that's a buck.

Rabbits are, well, pretty unusual in that department. As you can see, the testicles are not together, they are each in their own sac, beside the fuzzy bump that normally hides the rabbit's genitalia (does have a bump like that too; you only see the actual penis or vulva when you press on it). Bucks' testicles can vary quite a bit in apparent size, even within a short period of time. What's especially weird is that they can actually pull their testicles back inside their bodies if they feel strongly enough about the matter (possibly helps protect them when fighting). 

And yes, bucks can be very shy; or even very aggressive; does are notoriously territorial (which is why you are supposed to put the doe in the buck's cage rather than the other way around when breeding).

As for a doe fighting the buck - I had a friend who had a Fuzzy Lop buck that was castrated by a doe that he was supposed to be breeding - and that was in_ his _cage.


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Bunnylady said:


> I don't know how to break this to you, but that's a buck.
> 
> Rabbits are, well, pretty unusual in that department. As you can see, the testicles are not together, they are each in their own sac, beside the fuzzy bump that normally hides the rabbit's genitalia (does have a bump like that too; you only see the actual penis or vulva when you press on it). Bucks' testicles can vary quite a bit in apparent size, even within a short period of time. What's especially weird is that they can actually pull their testicles back inside their bodies if they feel strongly enough about the matter (possibly helps protect them when fighting).
> 
> ...



Rabbits sound agressive. I'm very confused. All I can do at this point is give them both a nesting box and wait and see I guess. The more aggressive one was always chasing the other and always at her behind. This is why I am confused why if its a female she keeps going to him instead of him to her. Would whatever is inside their testicles move around? Well, wait and see game. Once whichever has babies she is getting a cat collar so I know for sure.


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## Bunnylady (Dec 17, 2016)

Mounting and chasing can be dominance behaviors. When does are housed together, they can be as brutal as bucks to each other (as I found out to my chagrin in a colony I set up once - the victim later died of her injuries in that one). Even if they aren't that bad, a dominant doe may mount her cage mates, and the subordinate does may experience false pregnancies as a result (really!)

Actually, though sexing baby rabbits can get confusing, sexing_ adult_ rabbits is pretty easy. While a doe usually has a bare patch on either side of her vulva in the same places where a buck has his testicles, that's all it is - a patch of skin with no hair. If you see a pair of pinkish masses, or just sort of wrinkled baggy things, that's a buck (and come to think of it, some bucks have pigmented skin there . . . .). Rabbit testicles are a lot longer than wide, rounded on the ends, and up to about 2 1/2" long; and can be moved in and out of the sacs pretty much at will. I have often seen people at rabbit shows bouncing up and down while holding a youngish buck or "tickling" him there to try to get him to let them both down: a permanently retained testicle is a disqualification at a show.


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Bunnylady said:


> Mounting and chasing can be dominance behaviors. When does are housed together, they can be as brutal as bucks to each other (as I found out to my chagrin in a colony I set up once - the victim later died of her injuries in that one). Even if they aren't that bad, a dominant doe may mount her cage mates, and the subordinate does may experience false pregnancies as a result (really!)
> 
> Actually, though sexing baby rabbits can get confusing, sexing_ adult_ rabbits is pretty easy. While a doe usually has a bare patch on either side of her vulva in the same places where a buck has his testicles, that's all it is - a patch of skin with no hair. If you see a pair of pinkish masses, or just sort of wrinkled baggy things, that's a buck (and come to think of it, some bucks have pigmented skin there . . . .). Rabbit testicles are a lot longer than wide, rounded on the ends, and up to about 2 1/2" long; and can be moved in and out of the sacs pretty much at will. I have often seen people at rabbit shows bouncing up and down while holding a youngish buck or "tickling" him there to try to get him to let them both down: a permanently retained testicle is a disqualification at a show.



Oh wow, maybe? I just don't know now. Once they are settled down I am going to try and get in there and take as many photos of both as I can and post them. Hopefully you and the BYH can help me figure out this dilemma?


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## Bunnylady (Dec 17, 2016)

Unless you have something truly unusual going on here,







This is your buck






This is your doe.

As I explained to my mother once upon a time, "mature bucks have more massive heads and more substance to their ears than does do. If you know the breed at all, and you can't tell he's a buck just by looking at his face, you don't want him." (And as I have been breeding rabbits for about 30 years, I think you are pretty safe taking my word for it)


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Bunnylady said:


> Unless you have something truly unusual going on here,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, thanks.


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## Kaye (Dec 17, 2016)

i have a doe that is so territorial that she has to be alone 24/7 because she's been known to make other rabbits cry (not a nice sound at all). I can only breed her when she is ready. Even then she mounts the buck before she's letting him do anything in his own cage. 
And I have the perfect pair to show the difference in male and female rabbits from the face. I will post this in my journal later today


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

mamabun said:


> Okay, thank
> 
> ok, so I took some photos. Here is Frank I believe in the first collage of 4 photos and 1 alone of his possible testicles? And here is Matilda in the collage of 3 photos. What do you think?


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Matilda


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Kaye said:


> i have a doe that is so territorial that she has to be alone 24/7 because she's been known to make other rabbits cry (not a nice sound at all). I can only breed her when she is ready. Even then she mounts the buck before she's letting him do anything in his own cage.
> And I have the perfect pair to show the difference in male and female rabbits from the face. I will post this in my journal later today


Well that makes sense Kaye. She is over aggressive then. Poor Frank  I will have to keep an eye on her then. The photos were easier this time. Put a camera in a man's hand and he has no idea. I think my recent photos depict sex better. What do you think?


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## Kaye (Dec 17, 2016)

Yes. Frank is buck and Matilda is doe


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## Kaye (Dec 17, 2016)

I posted the picture in my journal


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Kaye said:


> Yes. Frank is buck and Matilda is doe


Yay, finally figured out. Now to figure out mating if they haven't already. How long should I put my aggressive Matilda with calm quiet Frank?


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## Bunnylady (Dec 17, 2016)

If they have been together several times over  the last week, you don't need to put them together for at least 4 weeks . . . . Matilda is probably already pregnant by now.

If the doe is willing, "the act" takes literally a few seconds.


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## Kaye (Dec 17, 2016)

It only takes him falling off once. That is how you 'know' he's done his job. As soon as he does this I have to take Alice out. After an hour or so I will put her back in with him and let him do his thing again, but I only do this as a 'just to make sure' kind of thing. 
Is she supposed to be pregnant?? This could be why she's acting so aggressive. Hormones, ya know...


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## Kaye (Dec 17, 2016)

Oh, I just saw @Bunnylady s post. Exactly what she said. When the doe is ready she will be swollen and kind of 'purplish'. Alice starts humping her toy (a ball) and wants out of her cage


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## promiseacres (Dec 17, 2016)

Definitely keep the buck away from the doe if you want live kits. Not a good situation if they are allowed together through her pregnancy. She could absorb the kits, she might get pregnant weeks apart, then you'll have preterm kits, he might kill the kits, she may not take care of them if stressed. With losing her first litter would definitely be extra careful for litter 2.


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Bunnylady said:


> If they have been together several times over  the last week, you don't need to put them together for at least 4 weeks . . . . Matilda is probably already pregnant by now.
> 
> If the doe is willing, "the act" takes literally a few seconds.


Ok, great, thanks!


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Kaye said:


> Oh, I just saw @Bunnylady s post. Exactly what she said. When the doe is ready she will be swollen and kind of 'purplish'. Alice starts humping her toy (a ball) and wants out of her cage



Could be. Last owner didn't know a lot about bunnies either. So maybe the dead litter she saw was just ones from an earlier batch that hadn't let  go?


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

promiseacres said:


> Definitely keep the buck away from the doe if you want live kits. Not a good situation if they are allowed together through her pregnancy. She could absorb the kits, she might get pregnant weeks apart, then you'll have preterm kits, he might kill the kits, she may not take care of them if stressed. With losing her first litter would definitely be extra careful for litter 2.



I hope she didn't get so stressed through all this process and end up killing them. I hope it all goes well for her. He won't be able to get near her kits as we are going to add chciken wire so no one will jump over the wall. When she has her kits the nesting box is in her cage. I will keep the cage open then so she can leave her kits as instinct she will do to warn off predators and then feed them at night. I will keep her near her kits for how long before they can survive on their own?


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Kaye said:


> I posted the picture in my journal


Thank you.


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Bunnylady said:


> If they have been together several times over  the last week, you don't need to put them together for at least 4 weeks . . . . Matilda is probably already pregnant by now.
> 
> If the doe is willing, "the act" takes literally a few seconds.


Will I know when she's pregnant? Other than a change in eating and pulling fur out to put in her nest?


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## Kaye (Dec 17, 2016)

mamabun said:


> I hope she didn't get so stressed through all this process and end up killing them. I hope it all goes well for her. He won't be able to get near her kits as we are going to add chciken wire so no one will jump over the wall. When she has her kits the nesting box is in her cage. I will keep the cage open then so she can leave her kits as instinct she will do to warn off predators and then feed them at night. I will keep her near her kits for how long before they can survive on their own?


Mood swings happen from time to time with some does. Other than feeling for kits and swelling in the abdomen/milk glands, I believe taking her to vet would be the only way?? I'm not sure. 
@Bunnylady , what 'clues' can we use??
My last litter was wiened at 3 weeks old. 



mamabun said:


> Will I know when she's pregnant? Other than a change in eating and pulling fur out to put in her nest?


Pulling fur usually only happens with labor. And I don't think I can help that much with this one, I just go with each one's attitude and personality to tell when mine are pregnant. Pregnant vs not pregnant makes for totally different attitudes. It gets easier when you get to know each doe personally. I have two new possibly pregnant does. I can feel milk from one, she's due by the end of this (coming up) week. The other I have no clue. She's gotten pushy, but I've had her for only a few weeks and she's younger than I breed mine at (I usually wait until 6 months. She was bred at 5), so I'm at a loss to wether or not she's pregnant.


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## promiseacres (Dec 17, 2016)

Hard to say if you will know or not, some does are very consistent in signs, some are not. Some breeders can palapate (feel the kits)at 12-14 days. I have yet to consistently do well at that myself.  that's after being a 10 yr 4h rabbit member and more recently a breeder for 3 years. 
Weaning should happen at 6 to 8 weeks. Earlier and  bunnies can have poor immune systems. I usually start at 6, 7 weeks and everyone is out full time by 8.


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Kaye said:


> Mood swings happen from time to time with some does. Other than feeling for kits and swelling in the abdomen/milk glands, I believe taking her to vet would be the only way?? I'm not sure.
> @Bunnylady , what 'clues' can we use??
> My last litter was wiened at 3 weeks old.
> 
> ...



Thanks ladies.


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

promiseacres said:


> Hard to say if you will know or not, some does are very consistent in signs, some are not. Some breeders can palapate (feel the kits)at 12-14 days. I have yet to consistently do well at that myself.  that's after being a 10 yr 4h rabbit member and more recently a breeder for 3 years.
> Weaning should happen at 6 to 8 weeks. Earlier and  bunnies can have poor immune systems. I usually start at 6, 7 weeks and everyone is out full time by 8.



I will mark that down as a reminder, thank you promiseacres.


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## Kaye (Dec 17, 2016)

promiseacres said:


> Hard to say if you will know or not, some does are very consistent in signs, some are not. Some breeders can palapate (feel the kits)at 12-14 days. I have yet to consistently do well at that myself.  that's after being a 10 yr 4h rabbit member and more recently a breeder for 3 years.
> Weaning should happen at 6 to 8 weeks. Earlier and  bunnies can have poor immune systems. I usually start at 6, 7 weeks and everyone is out full time by 8.


I can't either. My husband is good at it.


Kaye said:


> My last litter was wiened at 3 weeks old.


This was completely mom. I had nothing to do with their weaning. I usually have litters that go for about 6-7 weeks. I always let mom do her thing. So, @mamabun, don't use my example as a guide. I just told you because it did happen. Good luck with your buns!!


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## mamabun (Dec 17, 2016)

Kaye said:


> I can't either. My husband is good at it.
> 
> This was completely mom. I had nothing to do with their weaning. I usually have litters that go for about 6-7 weeks. I always let mom do her thing. So, @mamabun, don't use my example as a guide. I just told you because it did happen. Good luck with your buns!!



Rabbit info says 8 weeks to wean from mother, so hopefully I'll be safe to leave them with her until they reach that age. unless other BYH members think it should be less?


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## Kaye (Dec 17, 2016)

Actually, the longer the better


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## mamabun (Dec 18, 2016)

Kaye said:


> Actually, the longer the better



Like childen, we'll always need our mothers


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## mamabun (Jan 2, 2017)

Now that the kits have arrived I feel like there's lots I need to do, but baby bunnies survive in the wild so not sure. Matilda has made a nest outside the nest box I provided for her. The kits are all inside her mound of fur she created. Day 2 should I move the kits to the nesting box? Can I inspect the kits to make sure all got fed tonight and if one didn't what do I do? Will I have to bring it inside and feed it with an eyedropper I'm guessing? I looked up stages in their cycle but I'd rather hear from you all what you did once the kits are born.
Thank you.


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