# Running a ram with ewes, NEW dumb questions!



## NachoFarm

We're getting a ram in a few weeks for the upcoming breeding season, which by the way, how do I know when that is exactly?  We will be breeding him with two of our ewes but not the third who is not quite six months old yet.  

We're running into issues already because he needs to have a "flock" right?  So can I run him with my two Alpine does?  Does that count as a flock?  

We use portable electric fence in the pasture, is that going to keep him away from the ewes?

I've heard of people running their ram with their ewes year round?  How does that work?  If we keep him away until the season is over does that mean our six month old is "safe" from his advances or will she be bred when we don't want her to be?

If we do run them all together will he attempt to hurt our goats?  They still have their horns (and can be jerks to the ewes as it is) so will that keep them safe?

Basically just any advice on how you manage running a ram with ewes year round as with such a small flock I don't see how we can do it any other way.


----------



## secuono

Doesn't it depend on breed of sheep? My sheep are seasonal and only breed when the days get short in the Fall. But, I wouldn't count the 6mo safe from the ram, especially if they come into condition. 
Some breed more often, no idea which those are, but either way, keep the 6mo out of the rams area unless you want her bred. I'd either put a marking harness on the ram or leave him in there for a month I think it was. But, with mine, doesn't matter how long the ram is with them if they choose when to go into season. Mine didn't breed until later in Nov.


----------



## NachoFarm

From what I understand we have seasonal breeders, they're a Gotland/Finn cross.  So wouldn't at some point the season technically be over?  I don't know how we would tell this...


----------



## SheepGirl

1. When do you want lambs born? Figure out what month you want lambs born, count back 147 days (roughly 5 months) and that's when you need to put your ram in. He might not breed anybody immediately; it depends on when your ewes start coming into heat. My Babydoll Southdown/Montadale crosses start coming into heat in September/October. Because of your seasonal breed, you really can't breed for anything other than Feb to June lambs.

2. He can be in with your Alpine does but he may attempt to breed them if they come into heat. (It won't be successful, though.) When you put him in with the two ewes, you can move the third ewe in with the does until she's ready to breed (7-8 months old if you want to breed her as a ewe lamb).

3. I have no experience with electric, but I do know wool acts as an insulator, so I would shear him and then put him behind an electric fence.

4. We do not have our ram with our ewes year round (even though our ewes are seasonal) because (1) I want to control exactly when lambs will start being born, (2) Some rams are aggressive with younger ewes, and (3) Some rams will kill newborn lambs. Your six month old will not be 'safe' from his advances if she comes into heat.

5. He will probably try to hurt your goats to establish a pecking order and may even breed them. Just be careful with the horns--you don't want your ram injured or killed.


----------



## kfacres

I most often, run my rams year round, with the acception of having lambs born in April, May and June some years, any other month is acceptable; but then again, I have a market for lambs born nearly anytime.  Even though I run rams year round, I might have one or two ewes every 2 years breed outside the Feb and March lambing time.  That goes with my breed, and the genetics behind them though.

If I only have one ram to keep penned up by himself, I always put an old grandma ewe in with him, doesn't hurt to give her a little extra grain.  I've been to places where they keep rams seperate all the time, but IMO that just makes mean rams, and tons of destroyed gates.  

I always keep my rams together during the off times, put them in a small pen to bang around, and you won't have any fights once you let them out.  Pecking order established.


----------



## NachoFarm

So since we're new to EVERYTHING, we only want spring lambs so I'm not dealing with the perils that winter lambing bring.  So if we keep him with our goats until November and then let them all run together for the rest of the season then in theory we wouldn't have lambs outside of March/April.  

As for not breeding the ewe lamb, I just don't see how we're going to manage that without keeping him separate all the time, which doesn't sound like it's good for anyone.  

Will he potentially just leave the goats alone?  Right now he's house with another ram and a donkey at the breeders.  My poor goats being violated!   

I feel like there's no good answer to this that satisfies all the livestock involved.


----------



## Cornish Heritage

> He can be in with your Alpine does but he may attempt to breed them if they come into heat. (It won't be successful, though.)


They can breed! Yes it is unusual but it does happen & the offspring are called Geep I believe. They are usually sterile like a mule (offspring from a horse & donkey.)

Liz


----------



## EllieMay

NachoFarm said:
			
		

> We're running into issues already because he needs to have a "flock" right?  So can I run him with my two Alpine does?  Does that count as a flock?
> We use portable electric fence in the pasture, is that going to keep him away from the ewes?
> _We are keeping our ram separate from our ewes until we're ready to breed them in a couple of months.
> The ram is enclosed in the portable electric fencing next to the pasture where the ewes are kept.
> The ram has the company of two LGD's and he's quite happy to be with the dogs. _
> 
> I've heard of people running their ram with their ewes year round?  How does that work?  If we keep him away until the season is over does that mean our six month old is "safe" from his advances or will she be bred when we don't want her to be?
> _If you keep your ram with the ewes, he will breed with any of them that come into heat.
> If you have a breed of sheep that is a seasonal breeder, you do have a "safe" period.
> We have Katahdins and they can breed year round, so we just keep the ram separate when we do not want them bred._


----------



## boykin2010

If your ewe lamb comes into heat, I say let him breed her. If she is able to have a heat cycle most of the time their bodies can handle being pregnant and she will probably just have a single lamb. I breed mine when they reach 2/3 of their adult and that is when they are at 6-7 months. However, my ewe lambs do not get bred right away when the ram is introduced. I put my ram in Sept 1 and they have not been bred yet. 
That is fine, I want them to wait until their bodies are ready


----------



## Bossroo

Running a ram year round with the ewes may not be such a good idea.  Those people, lucky enough to have very lush pastures year round many not have a huge impact, but those that do not have such great pastures ( like ours where the grass is brown from May to Nov ) will experience much poorer milk production and as a result, poorer condition of the lambs.  This will require much more hay and grain to be fed and still the lambs will not be as good in condition as those lambs being born in the oncomming of good and plentiful pastures. Result:  poor quality of lamb crop resulting in loss of profit !


----------



## Alice Acres

We put our ram in with our ewes in mid-November each year - as we are in Minnesota and early spring lambs are not a good thing. Too many lamb fatalities and our stress worrying about lambs being born in the cold (below freezing), bringing them in the house to warm, etc. Then adding in the expense of heat lamps, etc - just not practical. We did it for years (early lambing) when we had show lambs, but for regular production it just doesn't pay.
Then our ram stays out with the ewe flock until just before lambing time. We have an old pony (rescue, had multiple founders) who he lives with the rest of the year. We use a ram 2 yrs, then switch to a new one - been doing this rotation for decades now. 
We also use a separate pasture or pen for the young stock we don't plan on breeding. (They go in w/ Teddy the pony while the ram is out with the big ewes, then they swap places come spring.)
Good luck on your new adventure!


----------



## NachoFarm

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> He can be in with your Alpine does but he may attempt to breed them if they come into heat. (It won't be successful, though.)
> 
> 
> 
> They can breed! Yes it is unusual but it does happen & the offspring are called Geep I believe. They are usually sterile like a mule (offspring from a horse & donkey.)
> 
> Liz
Click to expand...

Wait a minute...WHAT?!  No.  No, no, no...I don't want my goats pregnant for no reason with some hybrid that will (from what I've read) probably be stillborn or miscarry!!  Is it more likely that there won't be a pregnancy created by their "fun"?  I don't have an extra pasture and I'm just getting used to caring for sheep and goats separately, let alone some GEEP!  :/

I guess in the spring we're going to have to create some sort of other area for the ram?  This is getting confusing.  I can't run him by himself, I can't run him with my goats, NO GEEPS! I can't run him with the ewes except for at breeding and for a few months after?  I don't see how I can create a plan that's going to try to be the best option for all animals involved.


----------



## Four Winds Ranch

I have run my rams by themselves every yr, whenever they aren't with the ewes and have had no problems!


----------



## CochinBrahmaLover=)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> He can be in with your Alpine does but he may attempt to breed them if they come into heat. (It won't be successful, though.)
> 
> 
> 
> They can breed! Yes it is unusual but it does happen & the offspring are called Geep I believe. They are usually sterile like a mule (offspring from a horse & donkey.)
> 
> Liz
Click to expand...




			
				NachoFarm said:
			
		

> Cornish Heritage said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He can be in with your Alpine does but he may attempt to breed them if they come into heat. (It won't be successful, though.)
> 
> 
> 
> They can breed! Yes it is unusual but it does happen & the offspring are called Geep I believe. They are usually sterile like a mule (offspring from a horse & donkey.)
> 
> Liz
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wait a minute...WHAT?!  No.  No, no, no...I don't want my goats pregnant for no reason with some hybrid that will (from what I've read) probably be stillborn or miscarry!!  Is it more likely that there won't be a pregnancy created by their "fun"?  I don't have an extra pasture and I'm just getting used to caring for sheep and goats separately, let alone some GEEP!  :/
> 
> I guess in the spring we're going to have to create some sort of other area for the ram?  This is getting confusing.  I can't run him by himself, I can't run him with my goats, NO GEEPS! I can't run him with the ewes except for at breeding and for a few months after?  I don't see how I can create a plan that's going to try to be the best option for all animals involved.
Click to expand...

It is EXTREMELY RARE ! Because of the ovaries or something like that being different, the chances of them are 1:1,000,000. Oh, and BTW, why do you hate Geeps?? ? Honestly, they are ADORABLE, and worth a lot. Plus, theres only like 10 in the world or something like that. Very rare


----------



## Pearce Pastures

I had to go an look that on up.  I had heard that they "could" breed but wanted to see on of these things (neat pics if you have time to google).  But I also came across this and the science geek in me had to share....

"A geep is not actually an offspring of the sexual mating of one sheep and one goat; rather, it is an animal resulting from the physical mingling of very early embryos of the two species and thus has four parents  two sheep and two goats. The scientific term for an animal with mingled cells from two species is chimera.

The first well-known geep was born in 1984 after scientists at the Institute of Animal Physiology in Cambridge, England, combined goat and sheep embryos of four to eight cells each and placed them in sheep and goat wombs for gestation. Six live animals were born, but the scientists found that only one had blood proteins from both sheep and goats. It showed patches of both goatish hair and sheepish wool.

Further research at the University of California, Davis, soon produced several more successful chimeras, for the purpose of studying vital processes in livestock pregnancies. An actual sheep-goat hybrid is possible. In a true hybrid, the genetic material from the two species is mingled at conception, with half the chromosomes coming from one parent and half from the other. Because goats and sheep have mismatched numbers of chromosomes (60 and 54, respectively), the resulting offspring, if it survives, is sterile."

Weird!!


----------



## CochinBrahmaLover=)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> I had to go an look that on up.  I had heard that they "could" breed but wanted to see on of these things (neat pics if you have time to google).  But I also came across this and the science geek in me had to share....
> 
> "A geep is not actually an offspring of the sexual mating of one sheep and one goat; rather, it is an animal resulting from the physical mingling of very early embryos of the two species and thus has four parents  two sheep and two goats. The scientific term for an animal with mingled cells from two species is chimera.
> 
> The first well-known geep was born in 1984 after scientists at the Institute of Animal Physiology in Cambridge, England, combined goat and sheep embryos of four to eight cells each and placed them in sheep and goat wombs for gestation. Six live animals were born, but the scientists found that only one had blood proteins from both sheep and goats. It showed patches of both goatish hair and sheepish wool.
> 
> Further research at the University of California, Davis, soon produced several more successful chimeras, for the purpose of studying vital processes in livestock pregnancies. An actual sheep-goat hybrid is possible. In a true hybrid, the genetic material from the two species is mingled at conception, with half the chromosomes coming from one parent and half from the other. Because goats and sheep have mismatched numbers of chromosomes (60 and 54, respectively), the resulting offspring, if it survives, is sterile."
> 
> Weird!!


Thank you ! Chromosomes ! I knew thats what it was, but I forgot. xD


----------



## bonbean01

Wow...that's interesting Pearce!  Thanks for posting that.

As for rams and ewes...how we do it is keep the ram separate with a friend during lambing time...and when it's time for weaning, we put the ram in with the ewes and the lambs into the "ram" pen.  Here it is pretty hot in the summer and no breeding takes place until late summer and we get January lambs.  Once the lambs are weaned, all are together on pasture.  We have limited acerage here and limited separate places (have added some every year, but it takes time and bucks to get it all right)...and this works for us.

Not sure what your situation is, but hope you get it to the point that it works for you!  I would say the most important thing is to not have the ram ever with newborn lambs...almost lost our very first lamb born here not knowing that was a bad idea.  He survived the attack, but we knew right away it was a ....do not!  

As I've said before, wish I'd known about BYH when we first started...the learning curve is great and there are so many wonderful people on here that have experience!!!!


----------



## bonbean01

p.s....Nacho...there are no dumb questions


----------



## Cornish Heritage

I jut recently heard of this breeding taking place. A gal put her Saanen goat in with her St. Croix ram, not having any clue that they would breed. The St. Croix ram was the only male in the pasture. That goat is now pregnant - has been confirmed by the vet & they are waiting to go for an ultrasound to determine a due date so that they can be ready. Their vet had never heard of it happening before & yes, chances of it living is rare BUT the goat is pregnant, the father is the ram, not other males involved!

Liz


----------



## Bridgemoof

Wow Cornish, keep us posted if you hear what transpires with the geep! I would imagine the chances of it going to full term are very small.


----------



## Cornish Heritage

Will do. The last I heard was they were waiting for an ultrasound & they were contacting the local university. 

Liz


----------



## NachoFarm

LOL, no hate for GEEPS!  I'm just overwhelmed by having three pregnant ewes because after reading up on it it sounds like there is so much management involved, and so many things that can go wrong.  We've only been "farmers" for a year now and I can't even grow vegetables properly let alone a GEEP!


----------



## BrownSheep

Haha you'll be fine! Bet you walk out there one morning a BOOM there's a baby. It's how my girls like to do it.


----------



## Bridgemoof

Ha!  That has happened to me, too, Brownsheep, but a lot of other things too involving human interaction have happened, too!

Don't worry nacho, you will be SOOOO hooked once your first lambs come you'll be sleeping in the barn. lol


----------



## bonbean01

Oh that is so true Bridge!!!!  Most exhausting, sleep deprived, worry wart time, but also my favourite time of year!!!!  Once hooked, there is no cure by the way...you are going to love it and you'll do fine...read lots, be prepared and enjoy!


----------



## Bridgemoof

And bring your laptop into the barn while you're watching those lambies so you can talk to us and send us pics, too,  We want to see what a GEEP looks like anyways


----------



## bonbean01




----------



## NachoFarm

I just spoke to the people that we're getting the ram from this weekend and she gave me some conflicting advice to what we had already heard.  I know everyone's practices are personal and all the advice on here is subjective but I just wanted to run down what she said and get opinions because she basically tells me NOT to do everything that we were planning to do.  

So here's her email in a nutshell~
That we cannot breed the ram to our one ewe because he is her father.  This contradicts what I've read about line breeding and certain breeds.  Although the whole topic of line breeding makes my brain leak.
That since the ram has been housed with another ram for the last two years that they will "miss each other".
She says, "You don't want the ram left in with the ewes especially when they are pregnant. The rams will push the ewes around and hog the food. Ewe's need extra nutrition when pregnant and nursing especially if they are still growing."  We planned on running them all together all winter and then removing him in March before lambing happens.
That the ram will be aggressive with people if kept with the ewes.

I know that all of this can be true and technically untrue at the same time but we really only have one pasture right now and no way of separating him from the ewes right now.  We also don't have anywhere to put him initially for any sort of "quarantine period".  We're basically going to bring him home and let him loose.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## SheepGirl

My old ram has bred his mother. I have 3 inbred lambs that turned out fine (Paulie I sold at auction though but I still have my two ewe lambs). Go ahead and breed him to his daughter. It's not going to hurt any unless negative recessive genes pop up.

My old ram, Billy, had been housed with another ram for 1-2 yrs. The day his buddy was sold he was lonely (because he was the only sheep left in his pasture) and he stayed lonely for the rest of that week (but he could still see the ewes when they were out in the field so he wasn't completely segregated from them). He was then moved up to my house and he was a complete angel being penned next to my ewes for the first month or so, but he just started to get mean & aggressive every single time I went into his pen. I'm not sure what caused his aggression because he had been used to being penned up overnight (here he was given 5x more space than what he's used to for being penned up overnight), but then again it wasn't for a couple months straight. But he got dangerous so I shipped him. I don't need a 184 lb ram (3/4 Babydoll Southdown 1/4 Montadale) breaking my leg or my hip or my knee or something. He had already given me a couple bruises. SO I guess my point is is that your ram may miss his buddy but he will get over it when he gets to your place and sees a bunch of girls. The other ram, I'm not so sure about since I don't know the breeder's housing/pen set-up.

My new ram, Hank, does get aggressive with his food. I have since weaned him off his feed and I have taught him to stay away with the sound of a halter hitting the ground. He has bashed into my ewes (who should be a week or two pregnant) and cause them to limp for a couple days. However, I'm keeping my ram in with my ewes until December-January so he can catch my ewe lamb's first heat. But then he's going back into his pen, even if it is 2-3 months before lambs are due. It is much easier to feed everybody their proper ration when they're separated.

My new ram is very well behaved and he's being better behaved a lot longer than my old ram (knock on wood)! He is not aggressive with me (he had been by himself for ~30 days and he's been in with the ewes since 10/5) but I still watch out for him & I do not let him get behind me when I'm walking in the field (that said he can still ram you if he's in front of you--that's how my old ram Billy would get me). The only reason why a ram would get more aggressive with ewes is that he's trying to protect them so he has all the breeding rights. But I think that would only be when a ewe is in heat, but even when my ewes are in heat my Hank isn't aggressive. Not sure how your ram would be, though.


----------



## earthdance

It sounds like you are having a similar situation as us with needing so many different pens and pastures. I keep our Nubian goats and shetland sheep separate but have dreams of maybe one day letting just females of each run together in a large enough pasture. We currently are also using several electronets for the goats and just now training the sheep to them. I finally got the bright idea to make a paddock to designate as goat 'homebase'  (a permanent pen we made with cattle panels with shelter, hay, and water) and just partition the pasture out with the electronet, instead of continually moving the electronet every 4-6 days and the shelter, and the hayfeeder, and lugging water out into the field! The sheep are kept on the other side of the property because that is just where we built their permanent sheep 'homebase' (not cattle panels). So far from my observations of my two standard size tunis ewes with medium wool getting quite satisfactorily shocked on the butt and side, through the wool (over 5,000 volts). The only bad thing is that if they are not trained to electric they may spook through the fence and need to have an exit until they are acclimated. It sounds like your sheep are already trained but be aware that the ram may not be. Maybe you could invest in some cattle panels (my goat base is 3 long and one wide) to make him a paddock. However, rams really do seem to need companionship of another ram (ewes just aren't the same-maybe you could make one of his future sons a wether for that purpose.). My rams are like frat boys, they enjoy being physical. Before I got them they were kept apart and they are SO much happier now. I think it is in the individual nature of a ram as to if he will be more aggressive around ewes or towards young. Mine are not aggressive towards me but I still won't trust them. I have one shetland ewe that I think is pregnant and when she starts to show signs that she is closer I'll likely isolate her for a good long time until I can separate the ewes and rams. 
I wouldn't worry about line breeding as long as one of the animals (ram or ewe) is of good quality and you keep in mind the goal of 'up-breeding' (don't hold back anything the ewe throws that is less quality than the better parent).

Good luck! There is so much you will learn, don't be afraid, both good and not so good (even horrible) experiences bring much teaching.


----------



## Cornish Heritage

> I'm just overwhelmed by having three pregnant ewes because after reading up on it it sounds like there is so much management involved, and so many things that can go wrong.


Not really! AND I don't mean that in a big headed way. How much work & worry you put into your sheep depends on you. When we had our first breeding pair of Large Black pigs we were told to stay with the sow right through the birthing time just in case anything went wrong. Well Penny decided to farrow on a night that was -20F! The barn was FRIGID as were we even though we had a space heater on & the piglets had a heat lamp. We took it in turns to keep watch over her for 24 hours. NEVER AGAIN! She did everything without our help & that was the last time we ever kept watch over an animal giving birth unless it was through the day & we just wanted to watch. 

Now we may go & check on animals before heading to bed & obviously if we see a problem we will be extra watchful but no more getting up in the night here unless absolutely necessary. The girls do the job themselves with no intervention from us. The ewes give birth outside, no barn necessary. We lambed out 36 ewes in February & only one did we have to pull. Michelle, our daughter, heard her making a funny noise in the night so came to get me. Between us we pulled out one VERY large ewe lamb that did live. I will admit that we did lose a couple lambs - big singles BUT IF the same ewes do the same thing this year they will be culled. I am not interested in having pets here - all our animals need to do the job they were created to do without me losing sleep. May sound heartless but it really is not - having to pull any animal can be a genetic/hereditary trait which we do not want. 

As for the advice from the seller, I hope you have had him tested for Johnes etc before you bring him on to your farm. Bringing a new animal onto your farm without quarantining them can be asking for trouble. It can infect your whole herd & in some cases be deadly serious. Our sheep herd is closed due to all the disease that is around. Be wise! Offer to pay for the testing - if he is clear, then that is great but if he is not then you have just saved yourself a HUGE headache. Even if you are buying from a friend be wise. We just purchased a milk cow from a friend of a friend - none of us thought she would have anything but we tested her for Johnes & BLV (Bovine Leukosis Virus) on our way home along with signing an agreement that she would be returned should she have either one of these. She had BLV! We had her in quarantine & thankfully BLV is only contagious through blood (some say milk also) so she was not going to pass it on. It has been an inconvenience as we had to look for another cow but you can be sure that no other cow will be coming on here before being tested. In fact today we just found two more cows & they are being tested before we even go see them. 

Even if the ram is clear he needs to be quarantined for a period of time to make sure he is OK. That is why it is prudent to always purchase more than one animal at a time. Can you not buy a wether from the same place to keep him company? We sell a LOT of animals here & we are always recommending folks to purchase more than one, not because we want to make sales but because it is SO much less stress on them. 

Not trying to put a downer on your purchase as I know you are looking forward to growing your herd. 

Liz


----------



## Alice Acres

(So here's her email in a nutshell~
That we cannot breed the ram to our one ewe because he is her father.  This contradicts what I've read about line breeding and certain breeds.  Although the whole topic of line breeding makes my brain leak.
That since the ram has been housed with another ram for the last two years that they will "miss each other".
She says, "You don't want the ram left in with the ewes especially when they are pregnant. The rams will push the ewes around and hog the food. Ewe's need extra nutrition when pregnant and nursing especially if they are still growing."  We planned on running them all together all winter and then removing him in March before lambing happens.
That the ram will be aggressive with people if kept with the ewes.)

We don't usually line breed. Sometimes we do, but it's by accident (ram breeds a daughter). And truly, nothing bad has happened.
Any animal moved or sold will miss the animal(s) they have been living with. 
We have not had any issues with leaving our rams in over the winter. During the breeding season, most rams lose lots of weight - they are working hard  and also get too fixated to eat properly. So most of them actually benefit from eating more. And most ewes don't need significantly more food until the last month when they are pregnant. They need good quality food all along, but the volume is not really increased by large amts until the end, and then really increased when lactating. As far as the rams pushing the ewes around for food - our ewes are usually plenty bossy. We get a new ram every 2 yrs , and with decades of doing this can not think of one ram who was a food bully any more than what the rest of the sheep were.
Rams - we have had many that were human pushy and aggressive. That actually is the number one reason we move them out from the ewes - so we can be out with the ewes and not always needing to be on guard and looking over our shoulders.  :/  But I feel they were that way anyway, not from living with the ewes. The bad ones were bad no matter who they were with!
The last ram we just sold was a gorgeous Dorper...but he'd been allowed to be too much of a pesty pet by the well meaning people who raised him...and he was so bad they actually GAVE him to us just to get rid of him. We used him for the 2 yrs and got great lambs, but neither Todd nor I were sad to see him go.


----------



## NachoFarm

Thanks guys!  This basically reaffirms my belief that there is no real way to learn and grow in farming without doing it, experiencing it, winging it and messing it up!  We don't have the perfect situation because we don't have unlimited time and money but we're doing the best we can with what we have.  We can't purchase another ram because we don't have the funds or space yet, and apparently the testing for Johnes is very expensive.  We can't keep a closed herd because we don't have a herd yet so we will just have to hope for the best and learn as we go.


----------



## Alice Acres

I also forgot to mention - they are all individuals. 
What one animal or group does does not always mean they all do. So in the case of rams - you will see a wide range of personality and behavior, and you just need to be able to adapt to it.
 Having a spare pen or section of pasture is a good thing, so animals can be moved as needed. Also good if you have someone sick, or just want to separate them for some reason. Even if you have limited space, try and make a spot that can be quickly used to make an isolated area (gates, temporary fence sections all work).

There are individual personalities, and then also a group (flock) mentality. 
When you are adding animals, the flock characteristics change. Sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad.
 That is one reason we have kept old ewes who are calm and well behaved, even when they are not part of the reproductive cycle anymore. Some of them are the anchors and good influences in the flock and it was worth it to keep them around just for that purpose.

Also - if you have just a few ewes - check into renting or paying a breeding fee for your ewes. You don't have to own your own ram and deal with him year round.
 For many years when I was a kid - we brought our ewes to a ram and they ran with the ram's flock (harem  ) for about a month and a half...and always came home bred. We also did that for my daughter's show Cheviot ewe - we wanted Cheviot babies from her, and took her back to the farm she came from to be bred.


----------



## NachoFarm

We got into the buying a ram mess because we chose Gotlands as the breed we wanted to deal with.  There's only three people in Canada that we know of who have them and that includes us!  We want to keep upbreeding but in order to do so we have to get higher percentage rams from somewhere.  This breeder is a three hour drive but she imports them from the US which sounds like a nightmare.  I just hope she keeps bringing them up for me!  I just had to pick the complicated breed!!


----------



## Alice Acres

How do you like them (breed)? Have you had them long?

I have heard of them, but never met one in person. I looked up the breed club site, and see there are 2 breeders about 2- 2.5 hours from me. 

Are you getting them to go the fiber route?


----------



## Cornish Heritage

> This basically reaffirms my belief that there is no real way to learn and grow in farming without doing it, experiencing it, winging it and messing it up!


LOL! You got that right  And when you do mess up, don't feel bad, just learn from it, smile & move on. I can't count how many times we have "messed" up!



> testing for Johnes is very expensive.


May be different up in Canada but here in the USA it is not. We have been testing our cows for BLV & Johnes for only $24 via a blood test. You can also test the milk which is even cheaper - $6 per cow. 

You mentioned that your sheep were originally imported from the USA? If that is the case then I would suspect they were tested for all sorts of "nasties" before they were even allowed across the border. You may want to ask the breeder.

Liz


----------



## NachoFarm

Alice Acres said:
			
		

> How do you like them (breed)? Have you had them long?
> 
> I have heard of them, but never met one in person. I looked up the breed club site, and see there are 2 breeders about 2- 2.5 hours from me.
> 
> Are you getting them to go the fiber route?


They're the first sheep we've ever owned so I just think they're the sweetest and cutest!  Much sweeter than my ornery, obnoxious goats.  
We got them mainly for fibre but since we can't keep every lamb that's born we will probably do meat as well..not sure how I'll deal with that. 

Yes, the ram was brought in from New Jersey I believe so I'll ask her about any testing he's had.  He's a big strapping boy!  We're very excited.

If we don't witness the act then how will we know?  Has anyone used the marker harness before?


----------



## Alice Acres

They look like nice sheep 

Years (decades) ago we used a marker harness, but we got away from that pretty quick. It was more work than we got benefit from it.
Our sheep all cycle within 2 months (most all at once) and get bred. We use 1 ram, so we knew who bred who. And with leaving the ram in with the ewes, if someone is slow for any reason, they do eventually get bred. 

We mark on our calendar when we put the ram in w/ the ewes, and then count out and mark on the calendar when the 1st lambs could be due. If my husband or I see some action or serious interest, we add that on the calendar; but other than that it just happens


----------



## bonbean01

Don't be overwhelmed with lambing time...it is a wonderful time!!!!  Yes, sometimes they need help, but in 5 years we've only had to help one and I read my refresher lambing sites with photos each year, and have a well stocked birthing kit and if you feel ready for whatever comes along, chances are you'll have to do nothing but witness the miracle of birth ....  well..we do strip teats just to be sure there is no plug, and we do a clean up bedding after each and bag it and move it out to not only keep things clean in there, but also to remove any scents because of coyotes.  You'll do fine and look forward to it each year!!!!!

As for seeing your ewes getting bred...our first ram Brisket must have bred only at night and we didn't see any, but then came the lambs!  Now our present ram Watson does not care what time of day or who is around...he isn't shy about it...gets the job done and I mark it on the calendar.

Good luck and you are in for a super great adventure


----------

