# LGD puppy and nervous goats



## Pearce Pastures (Dec 27, 2012)

I have Charlie in on of our kidding pens inside the goat barn (I put down a thick layer of pine shavings, a little doghouse, heat lamp, and mounted a food/water dish to the wall).  Our goats have never had a dog in their pen, except for a fleeting encounter with our Halle who was kicked out right away.  They do not seem too happy yet about this 8 week old puppy being in there and he seems a bit lost.

I tried to sort of show him to them today and reassure them, but he pranced a little bit, like YAY friends, and it freaked them out.  One of the does tried to slam him, and I grabbed him up and put him back.  I feel bad because both seem upset now.

I am thinking I should just keep him in the pen so they can get used to him at least being there, but how should I get them to be in the same space without him getting hurt?  Is there some kind of step by step/day by day/week by week/ guidelines anyone could share?


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## CocoNUT (Dec 27, 2012)

Hi Pearce - hmmm....I didn't have any specific guidelines...Gus was 4 months old when we brought her home. What we did however, was to have her in a pen where they (Gus and the goats) could see each other and get used to the others being around. I would let Gus out to 'play'...for a couple hours...always SUPERVISED. Eventually, the goats got used to her being around. You have to watch them for the 'playing' and 'chasing' etc. I'm not sure if there is a timetable you could use...I'd wait for Southern or other more experienced LGD owners to respond.  But right now, I have Snuggles and Sophie goat in a pen, separated from Gus by a fence until Gus gets USED to Snuggles and stops trying to chase her away. Also trying to teach Snuggles that Gus isn't a HORRIBLE beast! They're slowly acclimating to each other. 

Heck...the two goats I've had the longest won't go ANYWHERE without Gus! If they hear Gus bark at something, those goats RUN towards her! IT's the darndest thing! (Doesn't help when it's snowing out and the dog is out in the weather and the goats want to be with her!)


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## heathen (Dec 27, 2012)

Hey you may wana check out this page. http://www.milkandhoneyfarm.com/dogs/training.html It has a lot of good helpfull info for training. When we first got our dog we had lost 12 goats to a group of dogs the neighbor man owned.  only one nany left alive I took out the majority of the dogs because they were people aggressive also and we have a 6 year old little boy. And as anyone with little country boys knows playing in the woods and pastures is part of growing up.  So we had one tramatised goat the mother of the twins I  just posted. Anyway we got a little 6 week old 3/4Great pereyenes1/4 marama cross. She was terriefied of him. I started feeding them at the same time and of course added some other young bottle goats that essentially lived with him in a small pen in the back yard. I took all the babies and fed the one doe who was allowed near the pen but not forced to be inside of it. Everyone ate together after 2 or 3 weeks of this the babies and puppy were allowed free run during the day and pened up at nite. The puppy was corrected if he done anything out of line. By 6 months of age he was allowed free run. All the goats will lay next to him and he is my first and most reliable sign that a nany is about to kid. Good luck and what type LGD do you have? there is another book for sale online that deals exclusivly with Anatolion every LGD breed has pros and cons.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 27, 2012)

A dry lot or pen adjacent to the goats for awhile is best. Daily taking Charlie in with them. It is important that the goats let Charlie know they are dominant.  Head butting the new stranger is good. Good for the goats and good for Charlie. This is very critical. By you snatching him up (which I get it is the protector in us  ) you are teaching Charlie that 1. you are going to protect him, 2. The goats are not suppose to be superior to him. Both of these are counter productive to your purpose.

Charlie's whole role is to be submissive to the goats. Even if the goats roll him that's okay, my goats have horns and more  than once did they flip the pup in the air. As long as the goats are not trying to trample him he is ok. Even if he lets out  a yelp or two. The goats must do this or they will ALWAYS  run from him and then you have the chase mentality developing in the dog. If he chases, I would recommend a long 30' training lead so he can think he has freedom but if he chases you pull back enough for him to get off balance with a sharp "NO CHASE". This causes an immediate interruption and evetual understanding of the undesirable behavior involved.

 I would strongly recommend you DO NOT play with Charlie while in the goat area. Also no games or playtime that encourages chasing. I do not even recommend ball-throwing. Letting a pyr think chasing is fun only leads to problems. 
Remember at some point Charlie will be huge compared to your ND's... if he ever gets the notion he is superior to them the goats will not trust him and will continue to be afraid of him.

If he runs to you for protection do not pick him up, gently guide the goat away without Charlie realizing you are actually rescuing him. Pearce you are a smart cookie, so you will know if there is a situation that you really must intervene.
Playtime with Charlie can be loving on him, house time (20 minutes) and learning to be on lead. Exploring..on lead is fun for them. Basic commands can be started now. He should learn to sit within the next three days and master it by 10 weeks. Assuming he is 8 wks.

We do this for about two weeks. -The lot and us taking them in. Then the animals tend to be fine alone. Of course we have always done pairs which is good because they are puppies, they do play and there is no momma keeping them in place. We have never allowed goats and pups to play with each other. 

Hope this helps.

BTW- Pyrenees don't need heat lamps.  Just enough hay for warmth. If he was welped and raised in a barn his coat should be enough, if he has had supplemental heat then his coat may not have been developed enough.  If he is in the barn with lots of hay and its not below 5 degrees he should be ok.  

We need some pics of him out with the animals! PLEEEEASE!

I forgot to add... Make sure the goats are always first. Charlie should not get much attention while in with them. Focus and center on your babies (goats) this helps Charlie to get he is NOT the center of the world. (EVEN though secretly.. in your heart  he is!  )


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 27, 2012)

Oh thank you thank you, this all does help.  Nice to know that this is normal.  I will be going out to work in the barn in a few and will make sure to make it clear that the goats are #1.  

Yeah, he isn't even under the heat lamp, but is sleeping in the opposite corner.  I will get some more pics when I got out---don't have to ask me twice!


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 27, 2012)

Well I did it.  I went out, opened up his door, then walked away and loved all over the goats, fed them, talked to them and basically ignored Charlie (that was so so hard).  He pounced out, took one look at the goats and then went submissive and tucked into a corner, eyes looking away.  The goats just stared at him for the longest time.  Finally, Rosie and Bluebell approached, drew back, stamped a bit, then Bell sniffed him a few times.  Rosie though, as soon as Charlie tried to move slowly past her, rolled him and he yelped!  It was all I could do not to grab him and tell him he was okay, good boy, but he was not in danger or hurt, just clearly feeling like low man on the totem pole.  I let them interact for about 45 minutes, then put him back and played with the goats some more.  

DH is being very good at keeping in check my urge to pick him up and just make that "Fuzzywuzzyooggieboogie widdle puppy" proclamation.  Like he doesn't want to too though, hah!  


I will be so relieved once the goats start acting like Charlie isn't a big threat to them.


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## bonbean01 (Dec 27, 2012)

Oh Pearce...you are doing so good!!!  I would make him a great big housedog 

Seriously...I'm glad this working out for you...Charlie is adorable and I'm sure will make a super great LGD


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## babsbag (Dec 27, 2012)

I agree with not intervening when the goats want to put Charlie in his place, but I have to share with you that a pup I sold last year was killed by a babydoll sheep when he was about 11 weeks old. I never got the entire story, but what I did gather was that the pup had his head through a fence and a sheep slammed him. It was tragic and quick.

The pup was not supposed to be in the pasture yet, but the owner's grandchildren left a gate open.

My female LGD is totally submissive to the goats. My male basically ignores them unless they confront him. Then he either leaves if he can or barks at them until they leave him alone. As long as he doesn't touch them I am ok. They have an understanding.


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 27, 2012)

That is so sad.    I am definitely not letting him out alone with them any time soon (and I put locks on the gates and at the top of the barn entry last year after one of my kids let the goats out---luckily they didn't get far).  

I think we are already seeing some progress tonight.  I went out again to do my night stuff (egg collecting, lock up the birds and goats, check water buckets...never ends), and decided to let Charlie out while I brushed the goats again, just reaffirming that they are #1 to me.  Rosie started after him again right away, but was not trembling like yesterday when she saw him.  I did redirect her because I was worried she might hit him while he was against the wall and really hurt him, but after she was out of the way, the doeling I bought from Ksalvagno (Bluebell) started to take an interest in him.   She cautiously sniffed him a few times, never reared up, and didn't seem to mind as much when he tried to slowly make his way across the room.  

The best part was that Bell seemed to almost be talking to Rosie when she came back over, rubbing up against her and touching her ears with her nose, like "Hey, I think it is okay."  Rosie didn't try to hit him again.  We will try again tomorrow.


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## poorboys (Dec 28, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> A dry lot or pen adjacent to the goats for awhile is best. Daily taking Charlie in with them. It is important that the goats let Charlie know they are dominant.  Head butting the new stranger is good. Good for the goats and good for Charlie. This is very critical. By you snatching him up (which I get it is the protector in us  ) you are teaching Charlie that 1. you are going to protect him, 2. The goats are not suppose to be superior to him. Both of these are counter productive to your purpose.
> 
> Charlie's whole role is to be submissive to the goats. Even if the goats roll him that's okay, my goats have horns and more  than once did they flip the pup in the air. As long as the goats are not trying to trample him he is ok. Even if he lets out  a yelp or two. The goats must do this or they will ALWAYS  run from him and then you have the chase mentality developing in the dog. If he chases, I would recommend a long 30' training lead so he can think he has freedom but if he chases you pull back enough for him to get off balance with a sharp "NO CHASE". This causes an immediate interruption and evetual understanding of the undesirable behavior involved.
> 
> ...


HE WAS BORN IN THE BARN, AND DOSEN'T NEED THE HEAT LAMP, SUPRIVESED TIME WITH THE GOATS, EVERY-DAY, BUT DON'T INTERVENE, BOTH THE GOATS AND CHARLIE WILL LEARN WHAT THEIR ROLE IS. I PET MY DOGS AND LOVE ON THEM BUT NOT UNTILL ALL GOATS HAVE BEEN TALKED TO, MILKED OR FED. YOU WANT HIM TO RESPECT YOU AND THE FAMILY, AND THE GOATS, KEEP HIM PENNED CLOSE TO THE GOATS WHERE THEY CAN SEE EACH OTHER, GOOD LUCK, IT WILL ALL COME TO HIM NATURALY.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 28, 2012)

poorboys said:
			
		

> HE WAS BORN IN THE BARN, AND DOSEN'T NEED THE HEAT LAMP, SUPRIVESED TIME WITH THE GOATS, EVERY-DAY, BUT DON'T INTERVENE, BOTH THE GOATS AND CHARLIE WILL LEARN WHAT THEIR ROLE IS. I PET MY DOGS AND LOVE ON THEM BUT NOT UNTILL ALL GOATS HAVE BEEN TALKED TO, MILKED OR FED. YOU WANT HIM TO RESPECT YOU AND THE FAMILY, AND THE GOATS, KEEP HIM PENNED CLOSE TO THE GOATS WHERE THEY CAN SEE EACH OTHER, GOOD LUCK, IT WILL ALL COME TO HIM NATURALY.


Poorboys- Charlie is so adorable!!! Were you able to get a pic of all the pups with the goats? I love seeing pics of pups with the livestock!  Are all your pups in their new homes now?   Gotta make you feel good knowing one of your pups went to Pearce, she is already smitten! ...and you know will be a great owner! 

BTW- I love the scripture in your signature- one of my favorites. It was my oldest child's first scripture he ever memorized when he was 4!


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 28, 2012)

Thank you!  I am sure I will have more questions in the coming weeks.  He really doesn't like the heat lamp anyway, LOL.  He made a little nest on the other side of the little doghouse in the, away from it, so guess I can just take it out and save the electricity.


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## Roll farms (Dec 28, 2012)

Reggie, Charlie's half bro, is living w/ the goats full time.  He's...uh...18 wks or so now and gets tossed on his rear on occasion when he gets uppity.  It is GOOD for him.  

We sold a pup to some folks who babied him too much.  He's a house dog now.  Do you really want a 150# hairy house dog?  Take it from someone w/ a Newfie in the house.  You do NOT want a 150# hairy dog in the house.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 28, 2012)

although I wouldn't mind... but "D" won't stay in the house


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 28, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Reggie, Charlie's half bro, is living w/ the goats full time.  He's...uh...18 wks or so now and gets tossed on his rear on occasion when he gets uppity.  It is GOOD for him.
> 
> We sold a pup to some folks who babied him too much.  He's a house dog now.  Do you really want a 150# hairy house dog?  Take it from someone w/ a Newfie in the house.  You do NOT want a 150# hairy dog in the house.


 No giant house dogs here.  We have no indoor critters (except for the fleeting chicks or bottle babies but they are always outside within a week).

We had a great morning.  Charlie has learned SIT!    I had him sit in the middle of the barn while I did the goat stuff.   None of the girls were aggressive towards him, and he just sat and let them check him out some more.  They came about a foot from him, inched back, leaned over to smell him.  He calmly let them.  When he started to get up once, I firmly told him to sit and he put his bottom back down right away.


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## bonbean01 (Dec 28, 2012)

Good job Pearce!!!!  And good boy Charlie!!!


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## CocoNUT (Dec 28, 2012)

YAYAYAYAY!!!!!  

Ok...now let's all gang up on Bon and "enable" her to get one too!


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## bonbean01 (Dec 28, 2012)




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## poorboys (Dec 28, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> poorboys said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I have some pics of another litter with the goats, I have 4 more waiting on their owners, I know pearce will have a good dog. my signature acutally was given to me, I was always kinda shy and would stand back from a crowd, afraid of saying how I felt, and keeping to myself, and then people I did'nt even know would give me a note with this passage on it, also in 2008 my kidneys had shut down and was pretty much looking at the pearlie gates, when a pastor came in my room ( who did'nt know about that scripture and he laid a finger on my head and prayed that prayer. so it has always stuck, so now I'm more upfront and I am a happier person!!! thanks for asking


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