# Weight to breed Boer Goats



## DonnaBelle (Oct 30, 2011)

We just attended a "meat goat boot camp" put on by Oklahoma State University.  Dr. Sparks raises meat goats and said that they breed their first fresheners at 65 lbs.

He believes in getting the most production from his animals and that is his procedure.

DonnaBelle


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## elevan (Oct 30, 2011)

Did he say how many years does are in "production"?


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## RPC (Oct 30, 2011)

65#'s wow I look at my little doe that is 65#'s and I can not imagine breeding her she is just a little baby. She is probabluy closer to 70-75#'s not but I can not imagine breeding her.


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## DonnaBelle (Oct 30, 2011)

Yeah, that's kinda what I thought too.  However, the OSU extension guys who put this boot camp on are addressing the Boer goat as a production and money making business.  They do business models, etc. etc. etc. 

Dr. Sparks said they are doing a procedure in the spring that brings a goat into heat and they then cover her with a buck.  He would like to get two breedings a year per doe, but so far that has not been extremely effective, maybe a 50% rate, it varies.  I know my vet sonograms his goats and did this fall, and told me Dr. Sparks had about 25% pregnant this year.

Dr. Sparks says they've figured the percentages on breeding first fresheners at 65 lbs and waiting a year.  The long term production is better starting at the 65 lb's of weight.  This is measured over long time periods.

He has does in production up to 8-9 years of age.  He culls/replaces does depending upon number kids produced by the doe.  As long as she is producing at least 2 kids when kidding, she stays, when she does 1 kid per year 2 years in a row, she goes.

My little Nubian doeling Gigi weights 85 lbs and was born April the 8th.  NO WAY would I breed her now.

But my goats are "hobby goats" and Lenora and Lulu are producing all the milk I need right now, and I'm freezing some for later.

I want to breed Gigi in the spring of 2012.  That's going to be really tricky.  But I've talked to my vet, and he's done some spring breeding procedure so we may be doing something along those lines in March or April.

DonnaBelle


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## elevan (Oct 30, 2011)

> He has does in production up to 8-9 years of age.


So he breeds them early but loses 1-2 years (or more) at the end  :/


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## Roll farms (Oct 30, 2011)

It's all about the numbers w/ large meat herds.

While we (small herders) care more about the long term health of our animals (and yes, they're concerned w/ that, too...) they're more concerned w/ profit.

I hate, hate, hate the idea of feeding a goat for an extra year and not getting babies from them to help earn their keep - from a business sense.  That's why I try to keep Jan born kids - by 10 mos / 100# I feel they're ready.

I bought 3 young Nubs, and one boer, that are all April / May kids - none are being bred this year....and I hate it.  But I'm not going to risk their long term health, either.

I disagree w/ breeding them 2x a year.  3 times in 2 yrs, I can see....but 2x in 1 year is too much.  

They call that "power breeding" in puppy mill situations.


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## DonnaBelle (Oct 30, 2011)

I agree with Emily and Kim, theirs is a pretty accurate description of the "income producing" approach the really "serious" goat producers suscribe to.

There were about 40 people at this year's seminar.  Most of them with 100 plus herds, and really looking to make money with their goats.

We went because Ada is only about 1 & l/2 hours drive, the weather was beautiful, and when we went 4 years ago, we didn't have any goats at all.  Now we've got 17 Nubians.   We had a terrific time, they are all really seasoned goat people and THE FOOD IS GREAT.  We didn't have to buy a single meal for three days.  And did I say, the food was excellent too.  Home made desserts and terrific Bar B que!!

Most everything presented could be used for dairy goats too.  Hoof trimming, parasite management, nutrition, etc.

We even had a field trip to a meat goat/show goat (Boer) ranch.  That was very interesting.   This time they did a disbudding of a goat, which didn't happen last time.... For a first time observer, it's pretty nerve racking, but I wanted to see how somebody else did it.  The owner of the ranch used a Rhinehart 50.  He didn't shave off any hair, he did a little Boer buckling about 10 days old.  He held the iron on and counted to FIFTEEN.  Which would be way too long for a 6 day old Nubian doeling, you'd burn clear through her head.  I realize now, on disbudding one method does not fit all.  A person must be able to do some mental adjusting for age, size of buds, size of the goat, etc. etc.  Plus I think shaving definately makes for less smell of burning hair.

By the by, just for everyone's info...right now goat is bring $2.00 lb at goat sale markets here...

DonnaBelle


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## Queen Mum (Oct 30, 2011)

I breed at 80 pounds usually 8 months old.   Once a year kidding is the limit.  I have full size dairy goats.  Their health is my primary concern.  The vet says that is absolutely fine and is NOT too young or too small.  She says they should be able to breed up to 12 years old at that rate if the goats are in good health and condition, but not to go beyond that unless the goat insists.  (Some goats are natural mothers.)  The does continues to grow while they were pregnant and as long as they were very carefully fed and monitored, I have not had any problems with delivery, lactation or mothering.  

With one exception, they've all been good Mama's.  The exception got mastitis and she was a bit of a blond at heart.  She kept misplacing her kids, so I bottle fed her babies to reduce her stress.  I do note that it makes a HUGE difference if there is an older more experienced doe for them to learn from who kids first.


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## Roll farms (Oct 30, 2011)

I think if I bred my does at 65#, and then bred them again as soon as the 1st kids were weaned...I'd have a broke down doe in not a long time.

I get "Goat Rancher"...I understand their logic, saying a doe who isn't producing, is costing them money....BUT....I also think they'd get bigger / better kids out of the dams (both kid size at birth and at weaning) if they didn't push so hard.


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## poorboys (Oct 30, 2011)

yeah, I've got some april and may babies, they will not be breed this year, and only for health and growth reasons for the goats, I will not put stress on the ones I believe not to be up to par to carry babies. I have some boer does who also won't be bred untill maybe feburary for the same reason, I''m more onto the plan of having healthy kids and does. althou I know I'm running the risk of sales, and feeding an extra year for zero kids. I care for the animals too much to put a heavy load on them. althou I understand the meat produceing side of breeding twice a year for their sales, I just could'nt do it. good to know the price per pound is going up!!


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## RareBreedFancier (Oct 31, 2011)

I know a guy around here breeds early and often and his does are burnt out by 5 or 6yo.


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## redtailgal (Oct 31, 2011)

OK, but wouldnt you get healthier kids if you wait until the does are grown before breeding them?

I see my two lil does and by the standard set by the Oklahome standards they would be almost ready, but they are babies.


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## redtailgal (Oct 31, 2011)

sorry.

am having a morning.

posted in the wrong place


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## DonnaBelle (Oct 31, 2011)

Well, let me clear up one thing, the information I posted on here was simply to "report" what was presented at the "Meat Goat Boot Camp," 

Most everyone there was into making money, as much as possible, from a meat goat ranch business.  There is money to be made, but only if you are somewhat "ruthless" in culling and breeding the animals with a profit motive in mind.

This doesn't have anything to do with Oklahoma way of raising goats.  This seminar was attended by people from California, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Texas and Oregon, as well as a few Okies.

I am of the same mind as a lot of you.  I wouldn't breed my Nubian girls born this spring this fall, no matter what they weigh.
I'm like RTG they are "babies" to me!!

But there was  lot of great goat information at the seminar.  All the presenters were veternarians or professors of agriculture from Oklahoma State University.  I enjoyed the portion on hay nutrition, parasites, goat handling and livestock guardian animals.  Plus did I mention, the food was great?? LOL.

There were courses on the business, record keeping, etc.  

Hope this clarifies that this seminar is not just to address goat meat goat production in Oklahoma....

DonnaBelle


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## elevan (Oct 31, 2011)

Thank you for starting this discussion DonnaBelle.  It's a good one to have on several fronts.  It would be interesting to hear if anyone here is using this method and what they are finding.  Every farm is unique and everyone must find what is right for them and their farm.


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 31, 2011)

a dairy animal, especially nubians mature later than meat animals. They are simply bred that way. meat goats are bred for lbs of meat and production numbers in mind, hence the reason why specific breeds were chosen  when producing the boer goat that are 
*NOT* seasonal breeders and they mature younger. They were designed to start to get those babies on the ground and to kid out more often.   A good meat goat should not wear out at age 5 just because the first time they were bred they were 8 months old.  


what amazes me is it says 65lbs, I have 12 week old kids that on occasion weigh that much, for sure by 16 weeks of age, I certainly wouldn't breed them at 4 months of age.  It seems to me that it should be 65 lbs and atleast 7 months of age(just an example). Just saying, there should be an age range on it as well. 

Breeding them that young will slow down the does growth rate, and possibley even make her smaller than she potentially could have been, now from a production put of view, that would be okay, Since a smaller doe would need to eat less pounds of food to support their ideal body condition than a larger framed doe.  But if you are showing your animals as purebreds then this would not be an ideal situation and you would want the most growth on that doe as possible. Hence, the reason why show goats are often not bred until atleast 18 months of age.  

Many high=end producers, will only collect eggs from the younger does and wait to breed the doe until she is closer to 2 years of age, but when showing in open shows, the doe must show signs of  kidding out by a certain age in order to qualify for the 2 to 3 year old open show.


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## RareBreedFancier (Nov 1, 2011)

I agree that breeding early stunts their growth. The guy near me has heaps of goats and none come close to the size of the Boers on this forum. 

I think it's very sad his does are burnt out so young but I know they are because I specifically asked about buying a couple of older does that I might get another kidding or two from. He told me by 5 or 6yo they are done and no good for anything anymore. 

I also agree it's surprising there was no age suggested, just the weight. 65lbs at 12wo is amazing! Certainly wouldn't want to breed them then!


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## Queen Mum (Nov 1, 2011)

I don't think breeding younger stunts growth at all.  It depends on the breed.  It depends on the doe. It depends on the health of the animal.  And it depends on how well they are cared for during gestation.  

My dairy does tend to be big.  Mama (Alpine) weighs 250 pounds and is 36 inches at the shoulder. Both her daughters continued to grow during pregnancy and were bred at 80 and 90 pounds at 8 and 9 months old.   They ended up 160 and 170 pounds and 32 inches at the shoulder when their first kids were 3 months old.  

Mama's grandaughter Caramel (half Alpine, half Nubian) was bred at 8 months and she weighed 160 pounds and was 31 inches at the shoulder was still growing when she was killed by a bear.   Her kids were 2 months old.


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## DonnaBelle (Nov 1, 2011)

I think Queen Mum's hit the nail on the head, it depends on the breed.

I'd say Queen has some big goats!!  I'd love to see Nubians that size.  

My wether, Buckminster (Bucky) weighs about 200 lbs, he's the one I had castrated at 3 weeks of age at OSU.  So far he's peeing fine. I wish I knew if they used a "regular" castration method, or some rare exotic way of doing it since he's had no problems from the early castration and I was really worried after I found out it's better to wait till they're older.    He's 2 years old now, and I swear, if I could get a saddle on him, I could ride him.  LOL.

This has been a great discussion and I hope an interesting one for everyone who put in their 2 cents worth....

DonnaBelle


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## Queen Mum (Nov 1, 2011)

I do have big goats.  The farm where I live has a LOT of little goats, or I thought so until I found out that some of their goats are "average size".  They have Boers, La Mancha's,  Mini La Manchas, Painted Boers, Spanish goats (don't know the breed),  Saanens, and standard Nigerians and mini's.  

Mama (purebred Sundgauu American Alpine) and her kids (Alpine/Oberhauslie cross)are bigger than all but one of them (a big painted boer).  My  Alpine/Nubian/Oberhauslie cross buckling (7 months old) is as big as all the other bucks on the lot and has a LONG way to go in his growth.  His twin doeling sister is 31 inches at the shoulder and will be pretty big when she is grown.  She's smaller than her brother.


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