# Sustainable Livestock Production........



## The Old Ram-Australia (Jan 21, 2011)

It would be of interest to us if some of the members could tell us their definition of this topic and how their management practices result in increased production from the stock while improving the overall health of there land............A little further into the topic if members are interested we are happy to discuss some of ours,provide before/after photo's to show positive outcomes from our actions........................












The small tree in the foreground is in the middle-top of the picture below..................Looking forward to 'any 'responses..............T.O.R.

 Quote:" Knowledge only increases in value ,when it is shared."


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 21, 2011)

Wow, the after picture looks great!  Tell us what you changed.  

I personally don't have before/after pics, but I have to be careful with my grazing because I have a higher-than-recommended stocking rate.  I use a sacrifice lot to keep the animals off the grass when it's too short or too wet.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Jan 21, 2011)

Hi and thanks for the positive comments,Its my view that a camera is one of the 'most' important tools on the farm,followed closely by grazing management.................Your reply was so 'quick',it will be interesting to hear what others have got to say!!!!!!!!!........T.O.R.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 21, 2011)

I'm also interested in how you got such beautiful results!

Currently we don't have any pasture.  Our property is mixed deciduous woodland and we maintain the goats on understory browse (in addition to grass hay, grain, etc.)


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## ohiofarmgirl (Jan 21, 2011)

WOW! and look at that!

glad you got the pix working, btw...

we have a mostly treed lot so we'll be working on pasture... but very interested in how you got this done


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## freemotion (Jan 21, 2011)

I am getting similar results just by adding compost and ashes, but I only have about 2 acres in pasture.  Instead of adding a thin layer of compost on the entire field, I do a section at a time, choosing the worst area (dirt and inedible weeds) and smothering it with 4-5 inches of finished compost.

When I added chickens to the mix, my pasture at first looked worse, with the chickens completely digging up some areas, killing all the plants.  But when it came back....whoa, baby!  They did a great job and really improved my pasture.  My pasture was forest a few years ago and is still surrounded by trees, mostly oaks, maples, and cherry.  The chickens take care of the areas where the leaves gather and mat down, smothering the grass.  They also de-thatch thicker areas.

Mowing the field regularly also improved it.  I use a scythe.

Next will be cross-fencing and rotational grazing.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Jan 21, 2011)

G'day FM,thank for your response,your system reminds me of how they used to farm in Europe and Britain years ago,I also note you are not a machine man(neither am I,where ever possible).............If it would be possible ,could you post some info about your farm and your management practices,stuff like:size of farm,%of pasture to forest,do you have your stock in a barn over winter(thereby getting your stock of compost),if inside  do you use a 'deep litter system?Also what sort of stock/breed do you have?................Some pic's of the farm would be great,if you are happy to post them........Look forward to hearing from you................T.O.R


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Jan 22, 2011)

G'day all,the how did you' do it questions are not unexpected,but I would not 'presume' to tell anybody how 'it should be done',instead I will say what we 'don't do' and then add a list of things that we considered when we were going to make changes.....But first I think a little more detail about our place may be of value...............

Our farm is in two blocks 1x200ac and 1x300ac,the first was(prior to the drought)was used for growing out weaner calves to 12 mths or so and sold on.This ceased in the 2nd year of the drought and has been with-out stock for 8yrs................The other block is our sheep breeding  block and where we live.The soils are Granite on the lower slopes and poor 'gravelly soils on the upper slopes and ridges.

We run our stock outside 12 mths of the year,there is no hand-feeding of anything ie:hay,grain ,etc.In the time we have had it(about13yrs)we have not spread one pound of fertilizer,we have not turned one inch of soil and we only use herbicides to 'spot-spray declared weeds.ALL of the farm work is carried out by Jenny and myself including,all the sheep work(I am a self taught shearer,last year the flock was 400 head),fencing ,weed spraying and anything else that has to be done and by the way I am 68 plus and Jennys age is a secret.

 We then sat down and had a 'good hard look' at what we had.
                  What were our pastures composed of?
                  Were our fences in good order and in the 'right place'?
                  Were our stock handling facility's,correct for sheep?
                  Identify weed issues?
                  Was there enough stock water storage in each paddock?
                  What was going to be the 'right' type of grazing management?
                  Was there any areas on the farm that could attract 'Govt funding' to protect 'sensitive areas' of habitat and 'vegetation'?

  If there are any of you who wish to know how we went about answering the above,we are happy to 'field questions 'on any of the points raised.The answer to the above formed the basis of the FARM PLAN, as it has been sound planning that has driven much of our success.

 QUOTE" If you fail to plan, you plan to fail."

     There are many more facets to the plan and if anybody wants more' info',we can 'chat' about it in future 'posts' if thats your wish.

 I started this 'topic' with the intention of it being a two way street and I want to 'learn' your systems in order to improve ours.

I have added a few more 'before and after' photo's for you to think about.

     We look forward to your comments on the topic ,thus far.. T.O.R.      
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Developed woodland grazing.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	












  2nd and 5thaddock is west facing ,gets hottest wind/sun and coldest winds in winter.
  Log in 3 is in the top left in 4.


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## Bossroo (Jan 22, 2011)

Do you have plans to harvest 1/2- 2/3 of the more mature trees as a crop? Do you remove the dead/ downed trees and branches? This would increase the amount of sunlight for pasturegrass production as well as remove volumes of water used by the mature trees thus raising the water table so that the grasses would use more of the available rainwater. Have you reseeded with better grass types or improved grass seed ? Have you done soil tests on various locations of the property? The results will tell you what fertilizers and minerals are needed where that animal manures alone may not be able to supply. This would increase the grass' quality as well as quantity. How about pasture crossfensing for proper pasture rotation ?  What breed of sheep do you keep?  The Dorper is a much better  browser and gain weight much better on poorer browse, weeds, grass than most other breeds thus producing more meat per sheep. Since they browse very well, they will save on the need for spot spraying. These few little things will improve the land and make it much more productive.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Jan 23, 2011)

G'day and thank you Bossroo for your response and questions ,which I will endeavor to answer.................Most of our timber is on the 'higher ground and ridge-tops,years ago all the 'good timber' was logged out for building,fencing and the like.What remains is OK for firewood and is suitable to the production of eucalyptus oil if no stock was carried and 'regrowth 'encouraged.We use our tree cover for stock shelter and to protect the slopes from erosion.....
 We only remove timber for firewood and leave the bulk of it there as habitat for birds and reptiles..........
 We have and excellent native grass species which thrives in 'shade'(Microlaena stipoides),responds to rain at any time of the year and has evolved over ,000s of years to handle our highly acid soils.Our district was settled in the 1800s and our farm has been 'livestock' farmed for over 100yrs,with all manner of stock ie: beef and dairy cattle,meat and wool sheep.When we purchased it was quite run-down and was considered to be 'whether 'country(suitable only for running de-sexed male sheep for Merino Wool).There have been many efforts made over the years (before us)to sow improved pastures,but the 'highly acidic' nature of the soil meant that most failed and only Cocksfoot(Dactylis glomerata),I think you refer to it as  Orchard Grass, not only survived but thrived...............Since we have acquired the block,the change in management ,improved 'soil health' and the 'breaking of the drought' has revealed a whole lot of species we thought could not do well here..................The rain and resulting lift in the' water table'plus the 100% groundcover we now enjoy has meant that we now have Clover's galore,Rye,Phalaris and Fescue,plus a whole host of 'Native Grasses' on our 'best country'.
 Our Granite country is so acid that a 10 yr trial run by the Dept of Ag concluded that the application of even vast quantity's of Lime would not achieve a satisfactory result.So we just work with what we have got.........
  I am glad you raised the subject of fertilizers and minerals,much of our problem was the result of using(or abusing) Superphosphate over many years,which when combined with the acid soils 'locked up' many essential minerals.......Rather than spread minerals on the ground we feed a broad range through a mix, a la Pat Colby's,by doing it this way we figue that we rebalance the stocks system and the excess hits the ground in a form the plants can use immediately.........
  The Dorper is an interesting breed,a few years ago a breeder suggested I change our flock over to this breed and if I was 40 or so I would follow that course,but I would change to the Asswarsie,because it has two strings to its 'bow' ,milk and meat and the breed appeals to the' ethnic group' we service.........
                            Thank you once again for your 'response'regards T.O.R.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 23, 2011)

The Old Ram-Australia said:
			
		

> We only remove timber for firewood and leave the bulk of it there as habitat for birds and reptiles..........
> 
> We have and excellent native grass species which thrives in 'shade'(Microlaena stipoides),responds to rain at any time of the year and has evolved over ,000s of years to handle our highly acid soils.
> 
> So we just work with what we have got.........


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Jan 23, 2011)

Hi Bossroo,sorry I did not get all of your questions ....We breed Suffolks(an internet friend in the US describes our stock as not American,not British,but somewhere in between,like 'bricks' with wool growing off of them)...................We are not a 'stud'(I have no time for the paperwork and all of there rules),but breed strong, self-reliant,easy lambing and able to cope with our difficult conditions.Our extreme's are 40C in the summer and -8C  in the winter .We shear in early winter and lamb early spring(outside in the paddocks)..................I will post a few pic's if anyone would like....The question on fencing could be a whole new 'topic 'in itself,as is the 'Economics' of Sustainable Livestock Management...............

   To ATK,NS and OFG,The question of 'how we did it'is a complex one and our changes have taken over 5 yrs to get where we are now.So the posts do not become 'novels',if you have a question about a particular aspect of the way we went about changing ,I am happy to 'try' to answer it for anybody who wishes to ask............
                               regards T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Jan 24, 2011)

G,day NS,glad you approve,thought you might enjoy some 'wildlife photo's..
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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  We also have Eastern Brown and Tiger Snakes.But a lot of care must be taken to get a photo of those...................Hope you like,regards T.O.R.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 24, 2011)

I just watched a documentary the other day on Australia's monitor lizards!  What a beautiful critter the one in your picture is.

I think it's great when folks are able to integrate doing what's right for the natural ecology into what's right for their livelihood.


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## Bossroo (Jan 24, 2011)

It is a challenge to grow things in very acid soils, but it can be done as you are proving. I was judging the trees from your photos and it seemed that harvesting some would be beneficial. 12 years ago, I baught  20 Acres what was open range land for beef cattle since 1860s in Central Cal.. 1-4 foot rolling hills with Alkali soils with a hardpan at the surface to 2 ft below grass cover was from bare ground with white salt deposts on the surface to 3" tall grass. Average rainfall for this area is 11 " / year from Dec-April however the last 3 years we got 6.5". All grasses are brown for 6-7 months of the year. Only one 300 year old Oak tree. I hired a guy with 3 D9s to rip the soil down to 2+  ft and level it to grade. I raised 30+ horses feeding purchased 100+ tons of alfalfa hay and 15 tons of corn/ oats/ barley grain / year on it for 12 years using their manure as fertilizer. I reseeeded with endophite free fescue and some original rangeland grasses and oats came up too along with burr clover and fillaree.  In good rainfall years I now have grass knee high. On my previous ranch, I raised a flock of 30+Suffolk then used the rams on my flock of 400-500 Rambollet ewes for wool/ meat production in Cal.  I sold out when the price of wool was so low that it wasn't worth shearing. My next door neighbor has a flock of 50 Suffolk ewes and uses a Dorper ram.  I first heard about and saw my first Dorper 4 years ago. The lambs are born quite small but oh so ACTIVE. They grow in leaps and bounds.  He gets on average a 7  pound meat gain at weaning over his straight run Suffolk on the same pasture. A friend in Oregon now uses a Dorper ram over Katahdin ewes and says she gets a 5-10 pound increase per lamb at weaning.  That equates to marketing an extra lamb for every 10-12 preveously produced. I have heard and read reports about similar increases in yields. I have never heard of an Asswarsie sheep. Do you have a photo and a physical description and production record for them?


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Jan 25, 2011)

Hi BR,thanks for the note ,I got the spelling for Awassi wrong,look in"sheep Breeds A-Z"......................Those sort of results are to be expected,its about normal for the F1 effect...................My god that was hard country you were farming,we have country like that around our deserts,in the south its "wether"country and in the north its cattle country it runs a cow to about one square mile and the stations run to 1 million acs............................Have you heard of a Yeomans Plough it was developed down here for use on 'salt pans and to encourage water to penetrate into the soil profile( I am sure there is some 'stuff" if you Google it...................Our rams are 'smooth shouldered and produce lambs slightly lower in birth weight than the average,but we rarely have to pull a lamb and if we do the mother and lamb are culled.The combination of the low BW and Smooth Shoulders permits easy birthing ,even in our maidens and the lambs hit the ground looking for the teat...................I will add a few photos from last Sept/Oct drop.....................................

  Group of ewe's prior to lambing
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Lambs are one or two days either side of 2 weeks old












  Lambs are 5/6 weeks old









                             ................ Hope you enjoy,regards T.O.R...............


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## Bossroo (Jan 25, 2011)

Hey TOR... in the 1950s-1980's the farmers used dynamite or backhoes  as well as D9s with deep soil rippers to dig planting holes for all types of orchard trees. Dams and irrigation canals were installed. Drip irrigation is the norm now due to increase water demands and therefore increased costs.Now there are millions of acres of  orange, lemon,fig, almond, walnut, pistachio, peach, plum, etc orchards starting within 2 miles (W, N, S. The Sierra Nevada Mountains 1 miles E ) of my place ( our immediate area is still gently rolling arrid grassland)  as well as Thompson's seedless grapes for raisins as far as the eye can see. Spring starts and all the orchards are in full bloom  in mid to late Feb. and thausands of bee hives are trucked in from all over the country.  Wine grape vinyards into thausands of acres 100+++ miles farther west and north. With more irrigation water came thausands of acres of tomatoes, vegetable crops, alfalfa, cotton, sugar beets, strawberries, corn and other grain crops.  In the county just S of ours, in the last few years,  there are dozens of new  dairy cow barns ( covered corrals and all their feed is trucked in and fed in long traugh rows... no pastures)  opening up every few miles where 3,000 cows is a small dairy. Last year one was built to milk 44,000 cows. Milking parlors operate 24 hours / day. Beef cows are retreating to the mountains, as well as sheep. However the sheep numbers have fallen to just a mere shaddow of itself due to the callapse of wool prices.  The larger mountain sheep flocks are trucked into the valley orchards, alfalfa, and row crop fields  to lamb out there and eat the new winter grass from late Nov.-early April. Lambs are then  sold and the ewes are trucked back to the mountains to eat the green grass still there.


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## kooltex (Jan 25, 2011)

Nice lambs!


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