# Help! Many (Odd and In-Depth) Questions About Goat Registration



## Bekkidotes (Apr 20, 2017)

Hello, everyone!  I am a brand new member of BYH and I have 3 unregistered mini goats.  I am quite happy with them being unregistered, but a lot of information about the benefits of registration has come my way and I have fallen into an internet hole researching the process.   I have mostly looked at the four main registries for Nigerian Dwarves (AGDA, NGDA, AGS, and IDGR) and it seems the more I look at those sites, the less I understand.

Is it correct that the only thing that makes a pureblood goat "registrable" as a pureblood is having two pureblood parents that are also registered, and even then they would have to be in the same registry OR in two different registries that honor each other's registry status?  It seems like some registries are very picky about both the sire and dam and won't honor many other registration organizations.

How were the first purebloods registered if a registrable goat must have two pureblood parents?  Did they just select goats who fit the breed standards and register them as purebloods?

If a goat's grandparents were all pureblood and registered but the parents were pureblood and unregistered, would that goat just be out of luck and unregistrable unless his parents got registered?

I know there are registries that allow for POA or "American" registrations, but would the goats registered under these papers always be considered "second-class citizens," as well as all their descendants?

I know this is probably getting into some really nitty gritty and annoying details, but I feel like I really need help to understand what all goes into registration!

Thank you so much in advance for any help!!  I'm trying my best to learn about this for the sake of my future herd but it's making me feel like a ninny!


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## NH homesteader (Apr 20, 2017)

Nigerian Dwarf goats are not able to be registered unless their dam and sire are both registered. Other breeds can be registered NOA (Native on Appearance), but not Nigies.

I'm going to tag @OneFineAcre and @Goat Whisperer because they know a lot about Nigies and registering them!

But don't stress, it can be very confusing at first but you'll learn as you go!


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## Mini Horses (Apr 20, 2017)

Bekkidotes said:


> How were the first purebloods registered if a registrable goat must have two pureblood parents? Did they just select goats who fit the breed standards and register them as purebloods?
> 
> If a goat's grandparents were all pureblood and registered but the parents were pureblood and unregistered, would that goat just be out of luck and unregistrable unless his parents got registered?



Yep -- a "group" who establish the registry actually set standards and most registries are "open" for a period of time.  This allows those animals -- who are judged by a designated group, to have met the standards set for the registry -- to be registered.  Thus, the original stock will be the base for a registry.  

Not all registries are for a "breed", rather, some are for characteristics that meet the registry requirements.  Paint horses, for example.   Even those registries can be "closed" and not accept new animals unless from registered parentage.

This may help clear up some of your thoughts about how confusing the various "registries" are.....for instance, some are for "dairy goats" and not a specific breed of dairy goat.

Hope that helps with a little of the "WHAT???" factor you have.


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## Goat Whisperer (Apr 20, 2017)

Let me start off with the registries. 
AGS was the first registry (to my knowledge) that accepted Nigerians. 
After the breed started gaining momentum and breeders fought ADGA, they were finally accepted. 

I don't do anything with NDGA, but I believe ADGA is picky with anything coming from them. 

IDGR would register a potato 
I don't do anything with them and I still see IDGR goats as "unregistered" IMO. 



Bekkidotes said:


> Is it correct that the only thing that makes a pureblood goat "registrable" as a pureblood is having two pureblood parents that are also registered, and even then they would have to be in the same registry OR in two different registries that honor each other's registry status?


Yes. They would need to conform to the breed standards. I use AGS and ADGA. They accept each other's "papers". 



Bekkidotes said:


> How were the first purebloods registered if a registrable goat must have two pureblood parents? Did they just select goats who fit the breed standards and register them as purebloods?


I'm not quite sure the process, but I'm sure the original imports had records & recordation of all the animals until the bigger registries accepted them. 



Bekkidotes said:


> If a goat's grandparents were all pureblood and registered but the parents were pureblood and unregistered, would that goat just be out of luck and unregistrable unless his parents got registered?


For Nigerians yes. 
As posted above the Nigerians have a closed herdbook with ADGA and AGS. 
You can have grades, experimentals, American, and Purebred with the other ADGA recognized breeds. AGS has a closed herdbook for all their recognized breeds. 



Bekkidotes said:


> I know there are registries that allow for POA or "American" registrations, but would the goats registered under these papers always be considered "second-class citizens," as well as all their descendants?


It depends. 
With ADGA- 
Lamanchas for example can be "bred up" from a grade to a purebred status. 
Nubians can not. The highest they could get from being a grade/NOA would be American. 

Most lamancha people that I know don't fret too much. Nubian people on the other hand can loose their minds  Just depends on the breeder. More and more American Nubians are being registered and are even beating out "purebred" Nubians in the show ring and in the milk pail. It really depends on who you talk to. I don't mind Americans as long as I like what I see. 

We have a first generation grade/NOA lamancha doe right now. She will never leave our farm. She is one of our hardiest goats and a top producer with the BEST milk EVER! She needs some work conformation wise but we are always breeding up. We use our top bucks over her and they have shown to improve her kids greatly. Because her kids are still a grade status they are not sold for the same price as my show prospects. They go to homestead type farms and do what they do best- live off the land and MILK!


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## Southern by choice (Apr 20, 2017)

I just wanted to add mini goats usually refers to Miniature where as Nigerian Dwarfs are a distinct breed.
There is a registry for Miniature Breeds (Mini- Alpines, Mini Lamanchas, mini Nubians, mini Toggs, etc the list goes on) that is the MDGA and the TMGR

If you are unable to register your dwarfs you can still choose to breed good animals and improve what you have... will it change the ability for registration - NO but unregistered goats can still be productive and good healthy quality animals. 

We have registered and unregistered goats in our herd. Love them all!


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 21, 2017)

NH homesteader said:


> Nigerian Dwarf goats are not able to be registered unless their dam and sire are both registered. Other breeds can be registered NOA (Native on Appearance), but not Nigies.
> 
> I'm going to tag @OneFineAcre and @Goat Whisperer because they know a lot about Nigies and registering them!
> 
> But don't stress, it can be very confusing at first but you'll learn as you go!



You answered the same way I would.  You can't register a Nigerian unless both parents are registered.


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## NH homesteader (Apr 21, 2017)

What SBC said- forgot to say that! I have mini alpines and nigerians. My minis are registered with MDGA. My Nigies (well I only have one at the moment but still) are registered with ADGA. They can also be registered with MDGA but I fail to see the point in paying extra to have them registered with a less well known registry at this point, so I haven't bothered. MDGA accepts ADGA (and probably AGS?) paperwork. They kind of have to, since first generation minis have to come from somewhere...


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## Bekkidotes (Apr 22, 2017)

Thanks so much everyone!!  I just want my goats to have the best lives possible and was getting really concerned about the whole registry thing.  This has really helped me understand it better!  In general, are NOA/grade/American goats able to participate in showings/milking competitions with purebloods, or would they be separated?

Once again, I really appreciate all you guys' help!!


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 22, 2017)

Bekkidotes said:


> Thanks so much everyone!!  I just want my goats to have the best lives possible and was getting really concerned about the whole registry thing.  This has really helped me understand it better!  In general, are NOA/grade/American goats able to participate in showings/milking competitions with purebloods, or would they be separated?
> 
> Once again, I really appreciate all you guys' help!!



They can be shown and participate in milk tests and competitions



But it does not apply to Nigerian Dwarfs there are no grades or NOA with them only purebred and dam and sire had to have been registered


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