# Ban of Tail Docking Moves Forward in California



## Farmer Kitty (Jun 5, 2009)

California is working on banning tail docking of cows. Personally, I'm against it and we do not practice this. Here is the article in this weeks Agri-View:

http://agriview.com/articles/2009/06/05/dairy_news/dairy01.txt


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## jhm47 (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm against it too.  It would be bad for range cattle to be docked, because then they would have no way to fight flies.

However, I can see that in confinement dairies that it would be much cleaner.  A tail that is covered in excrement is difficult to clean off, and the feces can and will build up on them till they cause major problems for both the cattle and milkers.  

A similar problem is with long-tailed sheep.  If not docked, they will very often get maggots under the tails.  This will cause the sheep to die a horrible death.  Sure, it's painful for them to have their tails docked at first, but imagine the torture of having maggots eat at you for weeks till you died.  Not the way that I'd like to go to my eternal reward.  Whatever that might be!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 5, 2009)

One thing is for sure, if you dock tails, then you need to setup an excellent fly/pest control program.


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## jhm47 (Jun 5, 2009)

As a nation, we also need to set up an excellent PETA/Animal Rights control program.  These "do gooders" are out to put a stop to ALL human/animal interactions, and most of them don't know a Holstein from a Duroc.


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## Thewife (Jun 5, 2009)

Was trying to avoid this thread, but I can't!

Basically it all boils down to the rights of the animals being put before the rights of the human owner of that animal!

The way I see it, even if you are personally against the tail docking of cows, by not speaking up for the cows owner and his rights, you are saying yes to the loss of those rights.

Now back to trying avoid this thread!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 5, 2009)

Hey, I have milk cows. We milk them twice a day seven days a week--no hired help, just DH and I. None of their tails are docked and if you read the article it tells that the very reasons for docking are back firing. 

But, regardless of my personnel views, I put this out there for anyone who cares to know and argue their point of view with their representatives.


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## bheila (Jun 5, 2009)

Although we don't own dairy cows, I think my cows LOVE having their tails


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## Thewife (Jun 5, 2009)

Well, poo!
Was enjoying this place!
But I also gotta post my thoughts!  

I see that HSUS is part of the cow tail docking thing!
If we keep letting them pick away at our right as farmers, we will all be eating tofu soon!
I dehorn, I castrate, I ship cows! I guess I am bad and should be stopped?
Right now I have a couple heifers with a nice set of horns, I guess since they like them I should let them keep them?

From their web site!
The Cows

Every year in the United States, approximately 35 million cattle are raised for beef,(53) 9 million cows for milk,(54) and 1 million calves for veal.(55)

*Most beef cattle are castrated, de-horned, and branded,(56) painful procedures performed without any anesthesia.(*57) For seven months, calves graze on the range(58) before they are transported to feedlots,(59) where they are fattened on unnatural diets. Within six months, they reach market weight of 1,200 pounds(60) and are trucked to slaughter. As with other animals to be killed for food, cattle are not given any food, water, or protection from the elements during the journey.
Dairy cows endure annual cycles of artificial insemination, mechanized milking for 10 out of 12 months(61) (including 7 months of their 9-month pregnancies), and giving birth. The cows are routinely given hormones to get the highest milk yield possible. According to Dr. John Webster, "The amount of work done by the [dairy] cow in peak lactation is immense. To achieve a comparable high work rate a human would have to jog for about 6 hours a day, every day."(62) This rigorous cycle overburdens the cows, who are considered "productive" for only two years(63) and are slaughtered when four years old.(64)

A byproduct of the dairy industry is a calf per year per cow. According to a U.S. Department of Agriculture fact sheet, "Male dairy calves are used in the veal industry. Dairy cows must give birth to continue producing milk, but male dairy calves are of little or no value to the dairy farmer."(65) As a result, within their first few days of life, the calves are taken from their mothers.(66,67) Females will likely join the dairy line, while some males are sold to veal farmers. Indeed, the veal industry would not exist without the dairy industry. Calves raised for veal are intensively confined and tethered by the neck in individual stalls so small they can't turn around during their entire 16- to 18-week lives before slaughter.(68) Veal crates are widely known for their inherent cruelty. As with conventional battery cages and gestation crates, veal crates are being phased out in Europe, yet are still in use in the United States.

Cattle suffer the same mistreatment as pigs during both their transport and slaughter.

United we stand, divided we fall!

Oh yea, if you have wolves or cougars in your back yard, call your lawmakers and thank them for bowing to HSUS!


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## WildRoseBeef (Jun 5, 2009)

I am totally and completely confused.  Kitty, from the way you put your OP it looked as if you are FOR the ban on tail docking:



> California is working on banning tail docking of cows. Personally, I'm against it and we do not practice this. Here is the article in this weeks Agri-View:


From the way you said this, it sounded like you are either against the practice of tail docking or the actual movement in California to ban tail docking.  I got the part where you do not dock tails. You do not practice tail-docking. 

But then reading further, someone else chimed in (jhm) that he was against the proposal as well but then counteracts that and says he agrees with the ban on tail docking.

Now this is the part where I go: Huh??? 

Because, from what I read in the article, California is against the act of docking tails in cattle.  Thus, they are creating a movement to ban the practice of docking tails.  SO, from that I take it that you are FOR this movement since you do not dock tails yourself and do not agree with tail docking, am I right, Kitty?  Since you did say later on that a excellent insect-prevention program would have to be put in place if/when folks did de-tail their cows.

So for that, I don't agree with tail-docking either because it's just a means of taking away the cow's ability to keep the flies off.  Sheep, well that's an entirely different matter. Tail-docking is for dairy operations where the cows rarely see the outdoors, if at all and flies ain't really much of a problem.  Tail-docking in range cattle is DEFINATELY unneccessary.  It's not even common sense to tail-dock beefers anyway.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 5, 2009)

I'm against tail docking. But, I do understand and respect thewife's opinion. (Although, IMO, there is a difference between tail docking and castrating, etc. that she mentions but, the rights to be able to choose whether or not to could draw a fine line with the rest. Which is what I believe thewife is saying.)

The fact that I'm against it doesn't mean that I have to close my eyes to the fact that it is being done. Therefore, anyone who chooses to dock, IMO, really needs an excellent fly control program. 

Dairy cows have a hard time with flies too. It's not just cattle out in pasture. Actually, it can be worse when they are confined in the barns as the cattle can not try to find a place to be rid of them. 

I hope that clarifies things for you. It's been a strange day to say the least.


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## MReit (Jun 6, 2009)

I've milked cows for the better part of my life and I'd rather have them not docked. AND I even have a permanent scratch on my eye from a tail. Okkkkkk, speaking of I need to go get milking now! lol


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## WildRoseBeef (Jun 7, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

> I'm against tail docking. But, I do understand and respect thewife's opinion. (Although, IMO, there is a difference between tail docking and castrating, etc. that she mentions but, the rights to be able to choose whether or not to could draw a fine line with the rest. Which is what I believe thewife is saying.)
> 
> The fact that I'm against it doesn't mean that I have to close my eyes to the fact that it is being done. Therefore, anyone who chooses to dock, IMO, really needs an excellent fly control program.
> 
> ...


Yeah that's a little more clearer for me.  Thanks


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 7, 2009)

You're welcome.


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## Thewife (Jun 7, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

> I'm against tail docking. But, I do understand and respect thewife's opinion. (Although, IMO, there is a difference between tail docking and castrating, etc. that she mentions but, the rights to be able to choose whether or not to could draw a fine line with the rest. Which is what I believe thewife is saying.)


The only difference between tail docking, castrating, dehorning, weaning, taking calves from their mothers so the cow can be milked, is simple.
The HSUS hasn't gotten around to wasting our lawmakers time to stop it!


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## Imissmygirls (Jun 7, 2009)

IMHO, there is a diff between tail docking in different animals. Sheep get the maggots, pigs bite each other's tails ( I am told).
They no longer dock dog tails in Europe. In my dog's case, I have to shave her butt so the hair doesn't bother her derriere and  A full tail would make it worse.  I'm glad she is docked.
Cows, on the other hand, are docked for the convenience of the dairy. The people don't want to get swatted, plain and simple. Should a docked tail dairy go out of business, cows might sell to a smaller dairy and be at a disadvantage fly-wise.  IMHO this changes it from a health issue to a convenience issue.
OK, I admit I had my cat front declawed for convenience. However it was done under anesthesia when she was fixed and in return for her claws she had 19 years of food, leisure and shelter in my home. I think it a fair exchange.
Cows aren't given those perks.  I don't approve of tail docking cows. If done, it should be done as calves and kept in fly-free environments all their lives.
That said, I don't believe in PETA or the HSUS either.


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