# Carla D-Great new adventures and an Amazing Life



## Carla D (Nov 1, 2018)

Over the last year my life has taken an interesting turn and into a wonderful adventure. My husband and his dad decided they wanted a few pigs the farm part of my sister-in-laws small 5 acre farm. I for the life of me couldn’t figure out what his desire to own pigs was all about. But, I told him to go for it and kinda fell in love with the first set of small feeder pigs they bought June of 2017. They were so small that our nearly 3 year old daughter made them look small. It was a very fun summer. It was the start of this new adventure.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 1, 2018)

Here’s a little background information about myself. In the pictures above is my little girl feeding Tanner. The second picture is my herd of eight little goats 7 are Alpine and the solid white one is Saanen. He happens to be claimed by my little girl. He’s a lucky little goat.

My goats names are: Rusty Nails, Butch Cassidy, Tanner, Jack Frost, Ringo Star, Elvis, and Junior.

 I’m actually a disabled nurse due to chronic pain which I’ve had since my mid 20’s and chronic major depression which I’ve been treating since I was 14-16 years old. I struggle really hard most days toget out of bed because the pain level is so great. My doctors won’t treat chronic pain anymore because they can’t cure it and they don’t want to get their chronic pain patients addicted to strong pain medication. Their answer to me is stay active and keep busy/distracted. This year, about August the pain got a whole lot worse for me. So I’ve been spending a lot of time at the farm. I usually make 3-4 trips there everyday to “control” my pain or seek some relief. Late September is when I bought my baby goats. And when I first got them I had goats out there that I was feeding every few hours during the day and as many as three at home that needed more attention because they were struggling. Between them and my 4yr old daughter I was literally running nonstop from 7:30am-Midnight for the first 10-12 days. But, surprisingly, I was a whole lot more exhausted than I was in pain. I attribute that to my baby goats. I wish I could new babies all year around just for that relief. I’ve been spending more time with the pigs as well because they are/were ready to burst with babies. My husband and I have built two completely new farrowing stalls with have sows and new babies in. I also get the privilege of being their “midwife” since my FIL is a bit old school and my husband works full time. I really enjoy that as well. It really does keep me busy. The worst part though is my memory and ability to concentrate had significantly diminished since I was in my mid thirties. But, I’m learning that I’m truly loving the farm life. I grew up in the country. But unlike my husband I didn’t grow up farming. So I have a lot to learn to keep up with him and the farm. I’m a bit of a late bloomer. I didn’t get married until I was 38 for the first time, then I waited until I was 42 to have a baby. It kinda makes me chuckle sometimes. I actually married a man who had his high school locker three lockers away from mine the entire time we were in high school. He’s also the same age as me, 46. But he’s been married before and has two children of his own in their twenties. His oldest child has made us grandparents to three beautiful grand babies. One of which is two weeks old which we have yet to meet because we honestly couldn’t get away from the farm for more than an hour at a time then our house got and their house got sick. So we have a two week old grandson named Jayden that we have yet to meet. They only live 20-25 minutes away from us. We feel so horrible. But, I’m learning farm life is busy life. I kinda like that. I’m used to really long hours. For a few years before I became disabled 100+ hours a week as a nurse. Yup, more than 400 hours a month. So things have slowed down tremendously. So, that may be why I’m in complete awe over some of these older people I’ve been chatting with in BYH. Just the fact that their lives are so much more labor intensive and busier than mine is, kinda makes me jealous that I’m nowhere to their level of activity, business, and knowledge as they are and in 15-30 years younger than some of them. One or two ladies in here that I’ve made acquaintance with are in their early 70’s. They are mind blowing to me as to their very busy and active lifestyles. They inspire me to not stop and to try really hard to do what I’m discovering I really love


----------



## Carla D (Nov 1, 2018)

This was an exurb from a comment I made as a response to a comment I received. I was told it could make a nice introduction to my journal.

I have mostly Alpine. They are the funniest guys I’ve seen in a long time. And my daughter has claimed the one Saanen I have as her baby. Jack Frost is one very lucky little goat. She is very doting to him. I also had a single Nubian. He was super sweet and wanted to be held and carried around much like many cats I’ve had. He passed away roughly ten days ago at the vets office. I find it cute how the little guys can ram heads one minute and melt in my arms the next. I have always been a cat person, since the day I was born. But my goats are giving my “crazy cat lady” image a real run for their money. I know I will love them when they are grown up. I can’t not love on any animal, except small dogs. I don’t like them at all. I’m not sure what my plans are with the goats. While I know they a dairy goat I had one or two of them sold to be eaten. I had thought about raising some and breeding them to sell. But I have no interest in being a registered goat breeder. My understanding is that registered goat breeder can make a good chunk of change on their registered goats. These guys may end up simply being pets and lawn mowers, ditch sweepers. I’ve always wanted to rescue unwanted, old, abused, neglected animals especially farm animals and giving them a really nice life and place to live the rest of their days out. So I think loving and caring for a mess of wethers is a fabulous alternative. I would love to breed a few Nubians because I fell in love instantly with Fonzy, the one Nubian out of the bunch. But I’m seriously considering buying whatever little bucklings I can get from the place I bought these from. While they are commercial farmers, she told me I’d only needed to feed them twice a day and that they should be weaned at 8 weeks, I think the instructions she gave me were subpar and neglectful. So I’m thinking I rescued these little billies. Since they will be wethered, way too many people consider them to be worthless money burners/wasters, I’ll be saving these as well by giving them a great life with a lot of love and attention. If I wish to have more babies down the road I’ll “rescue” them from the same breeder. She sold them at $5 a head. That kinda tells me how little she thinks of young bucklings that may possibly not be up to her breeding standards. She only sells the brand new buckling at $5/head. She sells brand new doelings for $250/head. Maybe that is what most breeders sell their babies for. But, in my eyes any living breathing animal is priceless and valuable.

I do agree with you about the diet and living healthy can definitely slow down or reverse the symptoms of many illnesses. That’s just not something I’m very good at practicing. So many of my aches, pains, and other symptoms are a result of my own doing. Old habits are really hard to break. But there are also a few habits I’ve never picked up or even tried. I don’t drink alcohol of any kind anymore. I’ve had about a ¼ of a wine cooler in the last six years. Prior to that I wasn’t a big drinker anyways. I don’t like the feeling I get after a few sips of alcohol. I’ve never done or tried any illegal drug/substances, not even marijuana, not one sip of coffee. I used to drive differently as well. I used to be a big time speeder, do country stops, and simply not practice or respect safety practices. My driving has completely changed. While I have some chronic illness I have every intention and want to live to be 97 years of age.i also believe in basic respect, helping your neighbors, and if you’re going to do something do it right/vey best the first time around. I’m not sure why I’m rambling like this. I’m sorry. While my lifestyle is not the healthiest it can be, I do have a lot of old time thinking, courtesy, kindness, I believe in helping others as best as you can and giving everyone the benefit of the doubt, a second chance, and respect from the moment of first contact, until they prove otherwise a couple of times, and lead by example. Again sorry for the rambling.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 1, 2018)

It's your journal so you can ramble all you want without having to say sorry.  

We all do that some and it is one of those things that makes them enjoyable.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 1, 2018)

I don't keep a journal, my blabberfingers just take on a life of their own and wander all over the place. This is your journal, do what the heck you want. Anybody that don't like it, can go read something else. LOL LOL

Chronic pain is a terrible thing and leads people to become addicted to opiate drugs. Then they stop being effective and it takes more, it is a one way road to hell and back. Either you, your doctors or both are wise not to take you down the road to financial ruin and perdition. If hugging a goat makes you happy, put one in the backyard! LOL


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 1, 2018)

Now Bay, you KNOW that one is never enough! That's just a tease! If she's going to have _one_ in the backyard, it has to be one each of at least 3 breeds! They are always best started as a trio (or more).  Nice start to your journal! It is yours, and you can do with it as you please. We're all along for the ride!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 1, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> It's your journal so you can ramble all you want without having to say sorry.
> 
> We all do that some and it is one of those things that makes them enjoyable.


‍ ‍‍ — this is us. Farmers goats, pigs, cats, rabbits, and the three of us doing it together.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 1, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I don't keep a journal, my blabberfingers just take on a life of their own and wander all over the place. This is your journal, do what the heck you want. Anybody that don't like it, can go read something else. LOL LOL
> 
> Chronic pain is a terrible thing and leads people to become addicted to opiate drugs. Then they stop being effective and it takes more, it is a one way road to hell and back. Either you, your doctors or both are wise not to take you down the road to financial ruin and perdition. If hugging a goat makes you happy, put one in the backyard! LOL


Well, I kinda had three in our unit for a few days. Then they started to get noisy. My hubby told me I either need to keep them quiet or they go back to the farm. Three little goats that need a little extra TLC wasn’t worth our being homeless. I fed them, held them, then I had to take them back to the farm. They would love it outside at our complex. There’s a mess of two legged kids and some fun playground equipment. I suppose I could always tell the landlord that they are the neighbors.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 1, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Now Bay, you KNOW that one is never enough! That's just a tease! If she's going to have _one_ in the backyard, it has to be one each of at least 3 breeds! They are always best started as a trio (or more).  Nice start to your journal! It is yours, and you can do with it as you please. We're all along for the ride!


I like this crowd more and more each day. I’ll bring them home and tell my husband that you and Bay told me to do it. Lmao


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 2, 2018)

Actually, in some places a goat can be considered a pet in the same category as a dog or cat. In addition, they can ALSO be used as a therapy animal and they sure seem to be therapeutic to you!  You should get a doctor's note to that effect and then alternate a few at a time through your "complex" to "socialize" them to little kids and playground equipment  Though management might raise an eye, I'm sure the kids (both species) would be thrilled!


----------



## greybeard (Nov 2, 2018)

According to some, just about any animal and even inanimate objects can be an adult's 'therapy animal' or 'therapy object'.

An old piston from a '68 428 Cobrajet engine is mine. Provides me with the all important safe space so I don't get 'triggered'. 

(no, not really)


----------



## Carla D (Nov 2, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I don't keep a journal, my blabberfingers just take on a life of their own and wander all over the place. This is your journal, do what the heck you want. Anybody that don't like it, can go read something else. LOL LOL
> 
> Chronic pain is a terrible thing and leads people to become addicted to opiate drugs. Then they stop being effective and it takes more, it is a one way road to hell and back. Either you, your doctors or both are wise not to take you down the road to financial ruin and perdition. If hugging a goat makes you happy, put one in the backyard! LOL


Your blabberfingers tell a pretty cool story. I believe yours front and back. I think it was 14-16 pages that I had access to. Was it you that built the Pig Palace? I think it was you or SBC. Anyways, here’s our version, the Hog Hut. I think it’s about 5’x8’ and four feet tall. We had three pregnant sows coming out of it like a clown car a month ago.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 2, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Actually, in some places a goat can be considered a pet in the same category as a dog or cat. In addition, they can ALSO be used as a therapy animal and they sure seem to be therapeutic to you!  You should get a doctor's note to that effect and then alternate a few at a time through your "complex" to "socialize" them to little kids and playground equipment  Though management might raise an eye, I'm sure the kids (both species) would be thrilled!


I’d really like to know where that is. If it has temperatures that don’t go above 100 degrees or below 30 degrees very often, I’d like to move there.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 4, 2018)

About three weeks ago a goat farmer, hobbyist, had a post on Craig’s list. She was liquidating her four mini Nubians. She also happened to live a mile away from us and on our route to the farm. Pretty handy. I wrote her telling her that her goats were absolutely beautiful and I doubted she’s have any problem selling them. Well today she emailed me today that cannot find a home for her wether and asked if I wanted him. I explained I had 8 youngsters all boys, and that they still have horns and that they are currently housed indoors. That if her mini would be comfortable with our setup that I would love to give him a new home. He is gorgeous and only five months old. Isn’t he gorgeous. He’s actually the same goat she had wanted to sell that caught my eye. She had three other does that were possibly pregnant. This is the one I fell in love with. I hope things work out for this little guy.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 5, 2018)

Oh my goodness! I can’t believe how things are turning out with the mini Nubian lady. I’m not getting the little guy in the previous post. But, she would like me to have two mini Nubians. Ernie, a wether and Gatsby a buckling. I told her I’d be honored to give her boys a good home if she thought they would be ok with 8 young guys that haven’t been dehorned just yet and if they wouldn’t have any problems living indoors for the winter. She only had two requests. 1. Give them both a good home, 2. She asked that I don’t wether Gatsby. She would like to borrow him in the future to breed him with some of her girls. I think that’s a very reasonable request. I had one request of my own. When she borrows him during breeding season I want access to Gatsby so my daughter and I can visit with him, possibly daily. How is this play out? I don’t have things this amazing fall into my lap. I feel I’ve won the lottery. I’m so excited to see the little boys.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 5, 2018)

Today’s project is going to be climbing on the roof of the barn/shed. This may be my last chance to get up there to try and fix it. Backup plan is to patch holes in the sides of the building. I’ve always been skeptical of the “as seen on tv” products. But, I’m going to try Flex Seal tape and spray. That is what the guy at Menards had suggested. Time will tell, I guess. I only wish I didn’t have so many issues with being off of the ground so far up. It’s time to be brave.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 5, 2018)

Rammy said:


> I used the flex seal trying to fix my gutters ( which I ended up replacing), and my 100g rubbermaid water trough. Didnt work worth a darn. It was the spray on stuff. Maybe the tape will work better.
> My neighbor got this tape people use to put on travel trailers to seal where it leaks at the seams on the roofs. Once you put it on, its on. If the flex tape dont work, maybe you can find that.
> Please be careful on that roof.


That is really good to know about Flex Seal. I plan on patching it with the tape then covering the area around the edges really well with the spray. I did not go up on the roof today. It has been misting all afternoon. Plus I’ve adopted two goats that I had to get settled in on the farm. I sure hope the snow can hold off for at least a week or two. So I can get up there on a really decent day. I think I know what the tape your neighbor used. I just can’t remember the name of the stuff. Thank you.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 5, 2018)

I added two new goats to my herd today. They are super sweet and pretty too. There is a couple of issues that have come up since their arrival about five hours ago. They are huge! These Mini Nubians are a whole lot bigger than I ever anticipated. I’m thinking the 7 month old one must weigh roughly 75-100 pounds. And the other one is a year and a half old wether. I’m thinking he is at least 100 pounds, but could be pushing 150 pounds. One issue is Ernie/Mozart is not nice to my little guys at all. He has very roughly rammed two of my babies into the walls of the enclosure. That has my biggest concern. The new boys have taken over the goat hut. My boys are still getting some supplemental heat at night because they shiver really bad without it. The babies are too afraid of the new goats to even think about going into their hut. The two new goats eat like a horse. I’m going to struggle to keep them supplied with feed and hay. Then the lady I got them from has me shaking my head. She told me that I should try and put some weight on the 7 month old because she thought he was too thin. There isn’t one thing that is tiny about these new goats. They look extremely bloated or very fat. The bigger one looks like he’s hauling around a gallon jug of goat treats in his belly. He is HUGE! The other one that she said was underweight also looks like he’s carrying around a gallon of milk as well. So, I’m thinking I’m going to need to limit their feed. I’m not sure how to do that either. I’ve been feeding them what they wanted when they wanted it. The two new goats are going to be eating an entire bale of grass hay before it’s bedtime. My babies look starved when I go in to feed them their bottles. I should have taken a picture of them from above to show you how big they really are. The gal I got them from is also a believer in holistic medication. Neither of them have ever been vaccinated. Plus she told me she thinks the bigger one has worms. It does look like I will be getting a nice new goat area set up. It’s three times as big as I had asked for. It has to be at least 50’x50’.  I was only anticipating that it would be half that size, that’s all I asked for as well. There is some really nice and lush  grass/alfalfa/weed mixture there as well. The third photo does show how round they are. But it’s from a slight distance. I think I’m going to be very careful as to how much food and hay they get. Every article or story I’ve read about goats says they should have endless amount of hay/grass. Is there any way I can keep them all in the same good size pasture outside? Does anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 5, 2018)

We try to use a meds only as needed but I know of a few who claim to do things completely holistically and their losses are staggering.

You are taking on a lot with the larger animals and there's a good chance it won't end well if they can't have separate enclosures.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 5, 2018)

What Latestarter said. x2


----------



## Baymule (Nov 5, 2018)

Having a senior moment  and accusing LS of something he didn't do.....  I meant what @B&B Happy goats said......


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 5, 2018)

It's OK... I'm used to being the "bad guy"... Even as a kid, I always got the blame (& the punishment)...


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

I want to thank each and everyone of you who replied to this post. While my daughter and I have already fallen in love with these two, I think you are all very correct on your assessment. While I’m very worried about my little guys, I’m equally worried about sending the two boys back to her. I think I’m going to have the vet check both of them out. Treat or fix everything that isn’t right with them, and get a separate area for them. They both have a few problems that I’m very concerned about. The first one being their bellies are very bloated. If they have worms, I’ll treat all 10 of them, today. We left the boys all together for a few hours last night. The tension is much less thinner than it was yesterday. If they don’t have worms then there is something else going on with them. They are huge! They never thinned down or started to look hungry at all. Not even in my middle of the night trip to the farm. I had a really bad feeling that pushed me to go to the farm at 2:45am this morning. Everyone looked to be comfortable and nothing amiss. I checked not only the goats, but the pigs, kitties, and rabbits. I still have an unresolved feeling of something being wrong. I can’t shake it. I do need to separate the big from the little goats. That is obvious. The big goats are going to need to have some feeding issues dealt with. If they don’t have worms, then they are going to need to be on a strict diet. I can’t do that if I give my babies free choice feeding. I also fixed the goat house so the big ones couldn’t get in there and kick the little goats out. But, I can’t take them back to her and live with myself. Something isn’t right with the goats or her. These big boys will be getting vaccinated and the young buck is going to be castrated. She will not be borrowing him for breeding purposes. I’m even contemplating turning her in for animal endangerment. I do understand going the wholistic route to treat minor illnesses a try before going the vet/medication route. But that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have their vaccinations and medical treatment when needed and wholistic fails. I will find them a different home before I send them back to her. She may be trying her very best, but that doesn’t explain a whole lot of issues that I’ve noticed in the last 12 hours. First job this morning is to deworm them all, separate the big from the small, and get the vet to look at the big ones. It’s a bit odd, but it’s the wether that seems to be bully, ruler of the roost, and not as nice to the little guys. The buck is much nicer to the babies. But he’s going to be fixed as well. I’m sure not letting her breed him either. I can’t risk sending him to her for a month or so. Well, gotta go and feed the babies and tend to all ten goats. And see if Thelma the pig has gone into labor yet. In case anyone is wondering if we have a place to put the big guys in, we do. It just needs to be cleaned up and a couple of adjustments made. Basically raise the another 6-12 inches. That will be easy to do. Have a great day. Take some time to enjoy the day if the weather is nice there for you. Carla


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> It's OK... I'm used to being the "bad guy"... Even as a kid, I always got the blame (& the punishment)...


You are a pretty cool and standup kind of guy. The more I read in your journal the more in awe I am about you as a person, father, veteran, and common sense risk taker. If there is such a thing. You rock!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Bay, you still crack me up! I have brain farts all the time my friend


I think brain farts are a gift given to us to keep us humble and level headed.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

Baymule said:


> What Latestarter said. x2


She did make a whole load of sense. She hit the nail on the head.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> We try to use a meds only as needed but I know of a few who claim to do things completely holistically and their losses are staggering.
> 
> You are taking on a lot with the larger animals and there's a good chance it won't end well if they can't have separate enclosures.


Completely agree.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Girl, you got your hands FULL ! I love Nubian goats....that being said, she wants you to keep one intact so she can breed him ? And hands them over to you stating they haven't had any vacanations and may have worms....and they are picking on your other kids ????  ....you  may want to really think about  the Nubian goats going back where they came from and stay focused on getting your kids settled in for winter....sometimes are hearts are bigger than our brains...i know i am quilty of that....the bigger ones (especially  the intact male )  will be your dominant  one in your herd.... feed costs are going to go up, vet costs and if your keeping them inside, more mess to clean and more bedding....i understand your compassion for them, but i am comcerned for you taking on a whole lotta male goat care, while you have the little guys, and your own health issues let alone a child......my suggestion  would be tell her the two nubians  are not going to work out and have to leave asap...make yourself your outside goat space for what you have now, put a plan together of what you want to do with goats...rescure is very commendable , but you need many seperated  areas to keep goats apart, for new commers, sick ones, smaller ones and larger ones....and on and on. It goes.....this was not a lecture, criticism or anything ment to hurt your feelings. I just don't  want you to be heartbroken if your little guys get hurt or sick and die ...I'm  only telling you because i care....maby someone else has a better solution for you.....take care of yourself first....hugs barbara....contact ghost whisper and mini horses and the other larger goat people who rersponded to your other post....


You couldn’t be more correct on your assessment of the situation. I can’t in good conscious take them back to her. I think she’s negligent of their care. They will be separated today from the rest. The buck is going to be castrated, and once I get their belly/worm issue resolved they will be going on a diet if the belly doesn’t go away after worming them. I may also give them an antibiotic just to be on the safe side. I will find them a different home before I’d send them back to her. I think reasonable accommodations can be made that will suit both big and small. But they can’t stay in that area together. It’s not going to happen. I do have a very big soft spot in my heart for animals in need. But once I have them, they won’t be going back to the previous owners. Especially if they weren’t able to provide them the care they needed. I’m going to be putting money and time into them, I already have. They aren’t going back to a bad home. I just can’t do it. I have learned one lesson out of this, no two. First being there is nothing mini about Mini Nubians. Second ly, if the deal seems to good to be true, you’re getting yourself suckered into someone’s problems. The big boys were well loved, that’s obvious. But, they have not gotten the care they needed. Why, I’m not sure. But, I can’t let her have them back.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 6, 2018)

Good for you!!!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> The best thing about advice is, you can take it or leave  it....wishing you the best and let us know how things unfold....


I will most definitely do that. I know the lady loved her goats. You can tell by the way they attention from me and Abigail. If I thought she would be providing them a better home than we are going to try and give them, that’s where they would go. I know we aren’t the perfect. As we are really new at this, and we don’t have unlimited funds to be taking in any more goats that need help or new homes. At least not until spring when we will have a much better setup for goats. I truly don’t think they are getting the vet care they need. That may be why she gave them to me. She knew they weren’t getting what they needed. I could move them into a better situation, but I can’t sensibly send them to a place where they would receive less care than we can provide. I hope that makes some sense. I know what I’m trying to say. But, I don’t think I got my thoughts out this morning. But, you did bring out a whole lot of valid points and things we are going to need to address immediately. Thank you for your thoughts, concerns, and input. I do value them.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Carla...you are completely  correct "if the deal seems to good to be true".......I  have learned that one the hard way myself !......


It was a deal too good to be true. I’m going to have to stop setting myself up for these kinds of situations. I know I can’t rescue all animals in need. I surely would if I could though. No more buying $5 goats late fall, no more taking in or looking for sob story animals.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 6, 2018)

Carla D said:


> Second ly, if the deal seems to good to be true, you’re getting yourself suckered into someone’s problems. The big boys were well loved, that’s obvious. But, they have not gotten the care they needed. Why, I’m not sure. But, I can’t let her have them back.



I see this happen quite often actually, and it happens for a variety of reasons, but benign neglect and intentional mis-treatment usually aren't the root cause.

People usually have the best of intentions, and initially perform their animal and household responsibilities to the letter but then 'something' happens and that something always falls under one or more of the following 3 categories.
1. Physical change.
2.Emotional change.
3. Financial change.
Someone gets sick or injured, and it very often effects an emotional and financial change to boot and something is going to suffer. They can no longer physically care for their animals and soon, can no longer financially care for them either.....can't afford to feed (animals) (family) AND take care of their medical needs.
However, the emotional tie many have to their animals supersedes good judgement, and  next thing happening is their own needs suffer, they can't pay their household bills, properly feed & care for themselves financially and risk loss of their homestead and even their home, but are still pouring $$ into their animals.......the proverbial cat lady that is feeding 100 cats but having to eat canned cat food herself because she can't afford to buy and eat  'people food'..

How many times have we read about sheriff depts being called because someone's cattle, sheep or horses are too thin? Plenty, and the story is always the same. The old boy can't afford to feed them or physically can't take care of them any longer but he just can't bear to part with them either.

Or, it may be a family had a passel of kids that helped out with the farm, but they all grew up, moved off the farm and started their own lives and family and 'Maw and Paw Kettle" find themselves unable to physically and/or financially support what they've already got. (Kids work for room and board ..for awhile.........hired hands do not.)

Regardless of denial or insistence that it 'will never happen to me', this circumstance will come to each of us at some point, as we age and as our individual lives change.
Prepare for it.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

greybeard said:


> I see this happen quite often actually, and it happens for a variety of reasons, but benign neglect and intentional mis-treatment usually aren't the root cause.
> 
> People usually have the best of intentions, and initially perform their animal and household responsibilities to the letter but then 'something' happens and that something always falls under one or more of the following 3 categories.
> 1. Physical change.
> ...


You are correct. I’m trying really hard to not paint her as negligent. She did care and loved them a lot. I know that people have different philosophies on thing and have different belief systems. Even next door neighbors or siblings can have different ways. It’s called diversity. That may be why they were given to a complete stranger that showed much appreciation to their gorgeous animals. I’ll never know. But, I also don’t want to make things tougher for her or make her feel more horrible than she may already feel. I do know my feed and hay bill just quadrupled over night.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Nov 6, 2018)

Miss @Carla D,

Refresh my Senile Texas Aggie memory -- how far away is your farm from your current residence?


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Nov 6, 2018)

@greybeard......that was a impressive response,  very cool....i really like that


----------



## greybeard (Nov 6, 2018)

Carla D said:


> You are correct. I’m trying really hard to not paint her as negligent.


Note, that I used the term 'benign neglect'. It has a specific meaning & is different than wanton neglect.


It can be a good thing when exercised prudently, and in animal husbandry often is.
"That old cow is ready to calve again....I'll just leave her alone to do what she does."

"Our new calf has contracted tendons.  I will wait and see if it clears up since they usually do"

"I feel a cold coming on. No sense taking antibiotics, it will be gone in a week or 7 days with or without them"

_
be·nign ne·glect
noun:
a noninterference that is intended to benefit someone or something more than continual attention would._


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Note, that I used the term 'benign neglect'. It has a specific meaning & is different than wanton neglect.
> 
> 
> It can be a good thing when exercised prudently, and in animal husbandry often is.
> ...


That is a possibility. I’d like to think that’s the case. I’m pretty sure she was doing the best she could. They are obviously not abused. I thought I was going to struggle to gain their affection. Not the case. I am fully aware that a persons or family chacon happen at the drop of a hat. We’ve been very close a couple of times over the last 8 years together. Fo


Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> Refresh my Senile Texas Aggie memory -- how far away is your farm from your current residence?


Five miles


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> @greybeard......that was a impressive response,  very cool....i really like that


I’m getting the impression that Greybeard and latestarter have both been around the block a few times. They seem to have a bit of wisdom to share and would rather give that than an opinion. They both seem highly experienced.


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 6, 2018)

GB is much more experienced than I (comes with age as well as life learning )... I'm a novice at best. 

That being said, let me reel it out there one more time to potentially get slammed... (sucker for punishment I guess). 

As I understand what you've written... there was a verbal agreement, which constitutes a contract in all but real estate, that she would give, and you would take, the uncut male goat under the stipulation that she would be able to have him back to breed her does at some later time. That being agreed upon, she would have every right to take YOU to court, and sue for damages should you have him castrated. The value of services to be rendered, as well as the value of the lost potential offspring, could ring up a very sizeable amount that you'd be liable for. Please be very careful in how you proceed.

I HIGHLY recommend that you NOT castrate the buck unless you can get her agreement to allow it, and for you to keep him. Otherwise, IMHO, you have no alternative but to return at the least him, back to her - the original owner. I have posted the above only as a warning of the potential issues you may face and NOT as a condemnation of your plans/ideas/thoughts/etc. Just want you to be very aware of what may happen if you proceed. You keeping the 2 goats is in no way going to have an effect of betterment for the rest of her herd. 

Also, unless you can document that she is actually (and able to be proven) harming the animals, please be very careful about reporting her to authorities. The fact that she's doing things differently than what you envision as the "proper" way, does not constitute abuse, neglect, or any other negative term that would justify reporting her as such to authorities.  <running for cover - anyone have a spare hiding place?>


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> GB is much more experienced than I (comes with age as well as life learning )... I'm a novice at best.
> 
> That being said, let me reel it out there one more time to potentially get slammed... (sucker for punishment I guess).
> 
> ...


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

Thank you. I had been doing a little thinking the last few hours. Yes, just because she does things very differently than I would does NOT mean one of us is in the right and the other in the wrong. We simply have two different ways of seeing and doing things. Right? Nor does it mean neglect or abuse. Just different.

The part of castrating him and being liable or breaking a verbal agreement, I didn’t really have any idea. It actually isn’t a verbal  agreement. It’s more like a couple of emails exchanged by the two of us about leaving him a buck and letting her breed him. You may have saved me from a great big world of hurt. I don’t know why she gave him to me if he planned on breeding him in the future. I will never know nor is it really any of my business. She is a very small operation. I think she had at max ten goats before she sold most of them and gave me these two. They have three cows, a few chickens, and a cat or two. They may very well rely on the cows and goats for their milk, meat, or as an investment. They do appear to have a limited income. She’s a stay at home mom that does homeschooling to her two children. I don’t have any idea what her husband does for a living. For all I know they could be relying on a disability check like I do. If that’s the case, my castrating the buck would be putting them in a world of hurt or hardship. That is the last thing I want to do. I understand struggles all to well. I don’t want to be the root to another family’s struggles. So thank you for pointing that fact out to me. I don’t want to cause anyone hardship. I’m going to think about this for a little bit. I may end up asking her to take the buck back or let me castrate him. I’m not sure. I do know I don’t really want an intact buck. While I don’t know much about goats I don’t want to have buck dominating all of the wethers. I’ve always felt that fixed animals made for much better pets unless you have plans to breed them yourself. Which I don’t. You have given me a lot to think about. But, I’d rather have a lot of thinking to do than having to pay a whole mess of money over a broken agreement/contract. For that I’m really thankful you said something to me. I am generally a thinker. Sometimes words come out of my mouth before I have really thought things through. That may be why I have stomach issues, I’ve stressed myself to ulcer/stomach troubles. On occasion I have been known to jump too quickly and then really regret it and have to pay the consequences.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

Thank you. I believe you and latestarter are correct on this issue. I’m either going to suck it up with the medical expenses and feeding, loving, and caring for them. Or the only other alternative is to give one or both back to her. I think she and I are going to need to work that out. We shouldn’t have done this exchange without having something I writing first.


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 6, 2018)

From what you've now shared, it seems the "agreement/contract" is actually in written form via Emails. Even more dangerous situation as now it goes beyond "he said/she said"... it's documented in print and was sent electronically so there's a digital "carbon copy" as well... Nuff said.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Nov 6, 2018)

Miss @Carla D,

You seem like a very thoughtful and caring person.  And you are willing to listen to the opinions of others.  That is so refreshing to encounter.  I hope things work out between you and your neighbor.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> From what you've now shared, it seems the "agreement/contract" is actually in written form via Emails. Even more dangerous situation as now it goes beyond "he said/she said"... it's documented in print and was sent electronically so there's a digital "carbon copy" as well... Nuff said.


Yes. That’s true. I just got done sending their previous owner an email politely stating what I wanted to do for the goats. Immunizations, deworm, vet exam, and castrate the buck. I asked her if she would rather have them back, could we come up with an agreement we can both live with and is good for the goats. But that I’d really like to work the details out that we should have worked out before the exchange yesterday. I’m just waiting to see what she wants to do and what and what her plans for breeding the buck was. I’m not very bright at times. I jump before I look sometimes, and sometimes I just don’t have a clue. I need to examine myself some and figure out why that is,


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Ca
> carla.... RUN, seriously Run away from the two new goats ....it will bring you nonthing but trouble, caring  for them, vet costs, emotional  worry...its  not worth it.   As time goes by and your little guys grow up to be big boys you will be more experienced  with goats, your plans may change, you may decide  its  too costly to have "only" wethed  goats....you are in the time frame right now to get your sneakers on and run like hell, the longer you wait to decide...the harder it will be....but like i said before...the best part about getting advice is you can take it or leave it..... please don't  let emotions over ride your  decision,  it will end up costing you more than you can imagine....


I agree with you that how’s the time to run. But instead of doing something very hasty I told the previous owner we need to discuss things pertains the two goats. Which IS something we should have done before I jumped into taking them. You are definitely right about something needs to be done. There may be a very good and legit reason why she would give her two goats away to a complete stranger. Things should be worked out within the next day or two. If she’s not willing to talk with me and setup a mutual agreement she may very well find them back in her barn. There’s a reason she gave them to a complete stranger. And there are reasons behind my wanting to have the vet come out, to vaccinate, and castrate them. But I will not be waiting very long to discuss this with her.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

Rammy said:


> I agree with @Latestarter. The emails are a written agreement to the terms of her giving you the goats. I would print, save, copy those emails and keep them safe somewhere.
> You might stop by there and speak to her directly and tell her your concerns and see if you can reach an agreement. Or if you would rather, email her so you have a paper trail, so to speak, so you have written proof of what is agreed upon if you can convince her to allow the castration.
> Then again, I would pobably just take them back. It might be easier in the long run and keep you out of alot of heartache later.


Yes. Either a mutual agreement is reached and documented or they go back to her before I invest more than a round of dewormer for them. I’m hoping it happens tonight, but I’ll give her a day maybe two to think about what she would like to do. I have no intentions of forcing her to allow me to castrate and vaccinate the goat. But, I also don’t plan on investing a lot of time and money on them either if she wants them back.


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 6, 2018)

Jeeze... I'm really starting to feel like a real Jack wad here...   Another issue to think on...

I would recommend against worming them without first doing a fecal exam to determine worm load and type worm you're trying to eliminate... if any. If indeed there is a worm issue, and it's a blood sucking worm, causing anemia, killing off an extreme load of worms too quickly can cause bleed out as the worms die and release... I addition, the worm kill will cause the new baby worms to hatch (the dewormer only kills the adults and I believe larval stage, not the eggs) to take the place of those that were eliminated, so the worming will need to be repeated again 10 days from the first application. A fecal should be run after the worming to ensure the first attempt achieved proper efficacy (Ideal is 95% or greater)...


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

I am getting a whole lot of great feedback from all of you. You have no idea how much I appreciate the fact you care enough to point some of the obvious things we didn’t do right or missed entirely. I have just send her a very polite and well thought out email to the gal about five minutes ago. I explained what I want to do and why. I’ve offered her a chance to do the same. But, I told her ultimately we need to come up with a written/documented agreement concerning the two new goats or she will be finding them back in her barn. I don’t wish to make her feel bad or guilty about why she gave them to a complete stranger. Nor do I have any intention of keeping any goats that I don’t have complete control to what I feel is in the best interest of the goats.

I also wanted to give a quick follow up about the transition and getting acquainted for the goats. Last night I went and made the opening to their house much smaller. Too small for the big ones to get in and push the little ones out from the heat. When I got there this morning I couldn’t find the two big goats. After a brief moment I had seen almost all of my babies AND two big goats coming out of theI’m house. I guess I didn’t make the opening small enough. My husband and I tried moving the boards so there was only about 6 inches to squeeze through for the babies. We both stood there in complete awe as the biggest of the two squeezed his way into the six inch opening. So as long as they are getting along we decided the babies don’t need a place to seek refuge. The two goats were in the stall long enough to poop in there. So I’m worming all of them. Because it only takes one worm to infect them all. I know I should have kept them separated but I wasn’t thinking about that at the time. Had I been thinking I would have asked her to keep them a few more days so we could build them their own place away from the babies. But, I do a lot of stupid things because I don’t think things through before I take action. And I also let my heart run the show instead of my brain. I’m sure you’ve all noticed by now that I don’t think things through nearly enough. One of these times you’d think I would learn from this mistake or flaw of mine.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 6, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Jeeze... I'm really starting to feel like a real Jack wad here...   Another issue to think on...
> 
> I would recommend against worming them without first doing a fecal exam to determine worm load and type worm you're trying to eliminate... if any. If indeed there is a worm issue, and it's a blood sucking worm, causing anemia, killing off an extreme load of worms too quickly can cause bleed out as the worms die and release... I addition, the worm kill will cause the new baby worms to hatch (the dewormer only kills the adults and I believe larval stage, not the eggs) to take the place of those that were eliminated, so the worming will need to be repeated again 10 days from the first application. A fecal should be run after the worming to ensure the first attempt achieved proper efficacy (Ideal is 95% or greater)...


Since I don’t have a microscope at the moment I’m going to collect a few stool samples and take them to the vet in the morning. The dewormer I have is Ivomec, that’s what we have at the farm. I know that dewormer doesn’t kill all types of worms. If I have the vet check the samples I’ll know i have the right dewormer for the job. 

Latestarter, please stop being hesitant or cautious about giving me things to think about. I’m so new and nieve about goats I don’t have a clue about what questions I should ask, what to look for, or things to think about. When I was growing up asking questions was not tolerated. Maybe that’s why I don’t enough or the right type of questions to ask. You have been pointing out issues, giving me reason or rational if it’s needed, and you let me work through the problem on my own without steering me one way or the other. I can really appreciate things being pointed out, some problems/consequences , a couple of whys and you let me the dumb decisions or at some rationals to think about before something unreveseable happens.


----------



## Mini Horses (Nov 6, 2018)

Carla D said:


> I don’t know why she gave him to me if he planned on breeding him in the future. I will never know nor is it really any of my business. She is a very small operation



Personally, I feel it was a way to have them close yet no feed costs & daily care.  I'm of the opinion many animals are leaving for same reasons.  Sometimes things get tight.  Better to disperse them than starve them.   (By the way, the swollen bellies can be any manner of issues, one being poor nutrition).



Carla D said:


> I’m not very bright at times. I jump before I look sometimes, and sometimes I just don’t have a clue. I need to examine myself some and figure out why that is,





Carla D said:


> I’m so new and nieve about goats I don’t have a clue about what questions I should ask, what to look for, or things to think about.



You are quite bright & compassionate -- you are NEW to animals.  Your heart can be too large, sometimes.   So we are out here assisting you to think about things you don't even know are problems because we see them & you can't  -- and would NOT know, given no background with farm animals.   Really we are not being harsh, we are not condemning or judging, we are throwing out our thoughts about what we have experienced and/or known, just rallying to help you learn what you need to know to help -- a crash course, maybe.  But you are THERE in the middle of this and we are jumping in to help, not hinder or chastise.  You have no flaw, you just need to absorb some of our experience quickly.  Hey, it's FREE..... We are offering options.  You can do as you want.  We'll even be there later, no matter how it goes.

Most of us have been where you are, more than once!  We all understand those huge loving eyes on an animal, their attraction and their tendency to bring friends with them  (goat math, chicken math...).  You are on the right course now.  Get an agreement between you two or return the boys....treat YOURs for worms, in case.  Things have a way of working out.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 6, 2018)

Carla D said:


> It was a deal too good to be true. I’m going to have to stop setting myself up for these kinds of situations. I know I can’t rescue all animals in need. I surely would if I could though. No more buying $5 goats late fall, no more taking in or looking for sob story animals.


Reality knocks. Answer the door and tell yourself no. No matter what, they all have to be fed and cared for and you can bleed $$$$$ money real quick. Love and enjoy the ones you have. You can't save them all, but you can give these a good home. If the bigger goats don't work out, find them another, better than they came from, home. You have a good grip on this.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 7, 2018)

Mini Horses said:


> Personally, I feel it was a way to have them close yet no feed costs & daily care.  I'm of the opinion many animals are leaving for same reasons.  Sometimes things get tight.  Better to disperse them than starve them.   (By the way, the swollen bellies can be any manner of issues, one being poor nutrition).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the kind words.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 7, 2018)

The previous owner has decided that she’d like to take them back. Both of them. So I guess their condition is no longer my issue. Thank you. I just wanted to update you.


----------



## PattyNH (Nov 7, 2018)

Oh @Carla D - I'm so sorry.  Even if it is "for the best" I can tell how much you love those boys...


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 7, 2018)

<whew!> potential problems avoided. I know you wanted them but you'll have that much more time and love to devote to the little guys you already have.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 7, 2018)

Here’s a follow up concerning the two Mini Nubians. They are back on their previous farm. The owner, Josselyn is a really nice gal. We chatted with each other 10-15 minutes. She gave me the name of her vet who only lives 2 miles from me. Small world. She said that her vet is very reasonable, does house calls, and experienced. I don’t know why I hadn’t known about her. I had actually tried finding a different vet than the one we’ve been using to this point. He’s quite knowledgeable and experienced. But, we are definitely paying for his knowledge and schooling. If we had a bit more money than we do have I wouldn’t even consider looking for a different vet. 

I did find out why she was liquidating her goats and gave me the two free. She has decided that she would rather focus on her cows. I guess she likes them a bit better than her goats. I think most people have a favorite/preference.  She actually had a new cow delivered the day I stopped in. We both kinda caught each other off guard. Since our thoughts about the two goats were so different, giving her the chance to have them back WAS the right thing to do. She and I both learned a little something from this experience. Neither one of us has hard feeling towards the other. 

I did send two fecal samples to the vet this morning. I got the results an hour or so. Turns out her goats did have worms, but the count wasn’t high enough to warrant the vets concern. Mine on the other hand had a concerningly high count of three different types of worms and they will need three different medications to treat them. That is something I’m going to find the money for and pretty quickly. They said it was probably because they were babies. I did also tell Josselyn the vets findings. Since I’m getting billed for two two fecal tests, she might as well know the results for both of our animals. Plus hers did stay with mine for a brief period of time, she had the right to know as well. I am very sad this arrangement didn’t work out. Those two goats were amazingly sweet, calm and friendly. They even tolerated Abigail wrapping her arms around them and they looked for our attention. I did get to meet a very nice gal who raises goats, just a few less than she had a month ago. Plus she’s giving me the name and number of another vet for me to check out. This has been a bit stressful, rushed, and we were both caught off guard transaction. I am very glad it happened and with a really nice woman and that things worked out as they did. A lot of things were learned by this. The first thing learned was Mini Nubians, there is nothing mini about them. They are still a pretty good sized animal and they can eat and eat and eat. I did ask her if all Nubian/Mini Nubians were this sweet, gentle, and docile as those were, or did I simply have the pleasure of working with three exceptional goats. Her two and my Nubian baby that I lost due to illness. She didn’t have that answer.  That’s my update. Thank you to all of you who have given me advice, answers, and told me that taking them back was basically the only option and best thing I should do.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 7, 2018)

PattyNH said:


> Oh @Carla D - I'm so sorry.  Even if it is "for the best" I can tell how much you love those boys...


They really were amazing goats. I could tell that a lot of time and love had been given to them. I am sad to see them gone. But, it really WAS the best thing to do for the goats and the two of us. She is an amazing gal. The two goats will be missed.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 7, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> I agree with the replies  above,  take care of youself and when / if your feeling bad...go get yourself a armful  of sweet soulful  love from your little guys.


Great advice!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 7, 2018)

PattyNH said:


> Oh @Carla D - I'm so sorry.  Even if it is "for the best" I can tell how much you love those boys...


Thank you for the kind words. It was “for the best”. I’m glad things worked out the way they did.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 7, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Well let's  celebrate  the positive  here...you made a new friend down the street, found a cheaper vet and got a bucketload of advice,  and opinions,   made new friends and learned  "that you CAN have too many goats", i think this part of your goat journey  had a positive outcome......


I did. But, is there really ever too many goats?


----------



## Baymule (Nov 7, 2018)

Carla D said:


> I did. But, is there really ever too many goats?



Durned if I know--I have sheep...….only 10...…* AAARRGHHH!!!
I NEED MORE SHEEP!!!!!! *


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 7, 2018)

Great outcome!
Yes there really is a thing as too many goats. Trust me on this one.  

Mini Nubians are very different in size. 
Glad you got the fecal results in.

Remember goats will have some parasites so the fact that the other goats had a low number is very good.
With your needing meds, I am guessing they were positive for a parasitic wormload & coccidia. 
Coccidia and worms are completely different.  Kids are prone to coccidia and thats why most are on prevention. However the age of your kids and them having worm load is concerning. I say that not to scare you but they should not have any worms at this age. So while you are treating you will need a plan. They are too many in a small area and this has contributed to it. They will continue to reinfect themselves until they have a larger area and basically dry lotting them would be advantageous. 
What products were prescribed?


----------



## Devonviolet (Nov 7, 2018)

Wow Carla!  What a journey.  I started 3-1/2 years ago with four wethered NDs. My plan was to get dairy goats, but I also planned to get two Maremma LGDs, to protect my animals from predators.  Do you have any plans to get LGDs?  Since we moved here and got our LGDs, we haven't lost one animal to predators. That includes chickens and ducks.  I was glad I started slowly, and both the dogs and my DH and I were able to learn together, before I took the plunge and got the girls, which was a lot more complicated. 

Given your physical issues, you might want to consider paring down your numbers, so you can better manage the work load, and cost of feed. You can take time to get the boys to weaning age, and then carefully choose good homes for them.  Actually, bottle feeding them is really good, because it makes them super friendly, which will make them easy to go with a family, as a pet.

I know it was a hard choice to make, but I think you, ultimately, made a good decision to offer to give the two mini-nubians back to the lady, who gave them to you, and as others have said, you would do well, to take a deep breath and let them go.  it is so good, that you and the owner had an amicable exchange of animals.  It sounds like you read her well, in that she was more interested in her cows, than the goats. Hopefully, after the experience with the two boys, she will approach finding them a home, a bit differently.

Great advise @Southern by choice!  As I read the journal, I was thinking some of the same things.

The one thing that I might add, Carla, is about a comment you made shortly after you got the two big boys. 


Carla D said:


> I may also give them an antibiotic just to be on the safe side.


I would be careful about giving animals antibiotics, "just to be on the safe side". 
** First, we have a huge problem, in this country, with antibiotic resistance, given for this very reason.
** Second, it's important to know if there is actually a need for antibiotics - did they have a temp, lethargy, decreased appetite? Each time you give antibiotics, it increases the likelihood of antibiotic resistance.  If there isn't a medical need for it, your are needlessly increasing chances of resistance when you really DO need antibiotics. There may be bacteria present, at the time, which aren't strong enough to make the animal sick, but that may be affected by the antibiotic, enough to be affected next time they truly do need antibiotics. 
** Third, it's important to know that the antibiotic you are using is appropriate for the infection.  If you give the wrong antibiotic, for the bacteria causing the infection, it won't do any good, and you will only delay proper treatment.

I wish you the best, in your endeavor, with these sweet little boys. Please do remember to take care of yourself too.  I know you used to work 100 hours a week, but you are dealing with constant pain. in addition to the importance of keeping busy, to distract from the pain, it's also important to get plenty of rest.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 8, 2018)

Carla D said:


> I did find out why she was liquidating her goats and gave me the two free. She has decided that she would rather focus on her cows. I guess she likes them a bit better than her goats. I think most people have a favorite/preference. She actually had a new cow delivered the day I stopped in. .


maybe..maybe not. I sure wouldn't automatically think/assume "she likes (or dislikes) one over the other" to the point of giving some away. Some things just become necessary and 'like vs dislike' don't really play in to the paradigm at all. 
You never know what precipitates a change or adjustment. Time, more than anything else is our most precious commodity. You can always make more $,  buy/rent/borrow more property, build more fence, build more shelters, grow more grass, but there is a very very finite amount of time allotted to everything and every one.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

greybeard said:


> maybe..maybe not. I sure wouldn't automatically think/assume "she likes (or dislikes) one over the other" to the point of giving some away. Some things just become necessary and 'like vs dislike' don't really play in to the paradigm at all.
> You never know what precipitates a change or adjustment. Time, more than anything else is our most precious commodity. You can always make more $,  buy/rent/borrow more property, build more fence, build more shelters, grow more grass, but there is a very very finite amount of time allotted to everything and every one.


Ain’t that the truth. I may not truly know why she did what she did. But I choose to believe what people tell me. At least until I learn whether they are worthy of that or not. I know that’s stupid. But I was raised to tell the truth, and tell exactly how it is. I’m hoping others are the same way as wel. I do know many/most are not though. Everyone needs a break once in a while.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Devonviolet said:


> Wow Carla!  What a journey.  I started 3-1/2 years ago with four wethered NDs. My plan was to get dairy goats, but I also planned to get two Maremma LGDs, to protect my animals from predators.  Do you have any plans to get LGDs?  Since we moved here and got our LGDs, we haven't lost one animal to predators. That includes chickens and ducks.  I was glad I started slowly, and both the dogs and my DH and I were able to learn together, before I took the plunge and got the girls, which was a lot more complicated.
> 
> Given your physical issues, you might want to consider paring down your numbers, so you can better manage the work load, and cost of feed. You can take time to get the boys to weaning age, and then carefully choose good homes for them.  Actually, bottle feeding them is really good, because it makes them super friendly, which will make them easy to go with a family, as a pet.
> 
> ...



It was a tough choice to make giving them back to her. But ultimately it was the only and best option I had.

As a former nurse I do know better about antibiotics. I’m not even sure what I was think when said I may possibly give them an antibiotic. I do know they should be used sparingly and under dr/vet supervision and advice. I’ve been saying and doing some really dumb things this last week or two. I do need to slow down a bit, maybe quite a bit for a while. I need to get my thought processes back on track, spend a bit more time thinking than I have been where saying and doing is involved. 

I have been super stressed, caught off guard more than once these last six weeks. Slowing down has become a necessity. I’m frazzled, I can’t get more than 3-4 hours of sleep for several weeks now. The change in seasons this year has been very hard on me. I can’t focus, think, reason, do or say anything very well right now. I will be slowing down. I have to for my health and safety as well as others around me. Thank you for pointing that out to me.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Great outcome!
> Yes there really is a thing as too many goats. Trust me on this one.
> 
> Mini Nubians are very different in size.
> ...



I haven’t seen or been told of the actual medication I will be needing. I should find out when I pay that bill later today. Coccidia was definitely on the the list of issues. I received a phone call from the vet yesterday late in the day telling me results and the meds. But because I haven’t seen it in writing I’m struggling to remember exactly what I was told. That’s one reason I prefer text or email versus a phone call. My hearing isn’t the greatest, and I struggle with concentration and memory. I really should and need to slow things down quite a bit actually at this time. I feel I’m becoming reckless and a danger to myself, others, and my animals. Not a good feeling or realization.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Have a plan, have the space, set up and have money set aside for goat addiction...hi my name is barbara  and i am addicted to goats !.....believe me your plans can change, mine did. I went from large goats...sold them all , even my favorites. And got into nigerian dwarf goats, they are small dairy goats, can be bred year round, are known to have up to five kids (average is three) but have read of births of seven....which equals less space needed due to size, less feed due to size and larger  birth numbers . And lets  me chose the best to keep to breed, or sell to help feed bill. The ADGA resistered does are papered and will be the same plan....and all the while my herd grows and can supplant  some of costs of my goat addiction, lol.....just chill for the winter, your plan will unfold for you !



“Just chill for the winter” has become very obvious to me the last two days or so. I got too excited, didn’t think long enough, acted too quickly. Not just goats either. My husband has been a bit angry with me lately. I haven’t figured out why yet. I’m assuming it’s because lack of thought, jumping before I look, and acting way too quickly. I had to of said or done something really dumb to irritate him to this level.


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 8, 2018)

Being honest with yourself is not always the same as being hard on yourself. Recognizing that there is an "issue" is the first step to correcting it. Sorry that your significant other is upset right now. From the little you've shared, he's dealing with some personal issues as well and everything that's been happening might have overwhelmed him a bit too. Slowing things down a bit to think things through, and getting the present stuff all under control and back to a stable place should go a long way toward making everything else better.

I think it's safe to say that we're all glad to have you here with us and it's already been stated; we're here to help! Relax, slow down, reflect, think things through, write things down. Maybe start a personal journal (private as opposed to this public one) where you can write out thoughts so they don't get lost in traffic.Take the hubby and daughter and go sit with the goats   I always find myself much calmer and more relaxed after a "goat sit down session". Might help him mellow and de-stress as well. Hard to stay angry when you have little animals demanding your attention. And they're fun, and interactive too!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Rammy said:


> Dont be so hard on yourself. Everybody makes mistakes. You need to take care of yourself. Get some sleep. Write stuff down and think about it first. I know all about doing stuff on impulse. Ive learned to think, rethink
> Thank you for the gentle words, and think some more. Nothing wrong with that.
> I hope you and hubby get to sit down and talk when things settle down a bit. Maybe its just he is concerned your taking on too much. Slow it down a little and take time for you.
> Dont feel like you are messing up. Sometimes its just the universes way of teaching and self realization to the lessons we need to learn. We dont always pay attention.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Thank you Rammy. Those kind words brought a couple tears to my eyes. But I’m only holding myself accountable and to slightly higher standards than I do others. It may have been a harsh self assessment, but it was made while being open minded, wide open eyes, and careful consideration.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Nov 8, 2018)

Carla D said:


> I have been super stressed, caught off guard more than once these last six weeks. Slowing down has become a necessity. I’m frazzled, I can’t get more than 3-4 hours of sleep for several weeks now. The change in seasons this year has been very hard on me. I can’t focus, think, reason, do or say anything very well right now. I will be slowing down. I have to for my health and safety as well as others around me. Thank you for pointing that out to me.





Carla D said:


> My husband has been a bit angry with me lately. I haven’t figured out why yet. I’m assuming it’s because lack of thought, jumping before I look, and acting way too quickly. I had to of said or done something really dumb to irritate him to this level.



Miss @Carla D,

Please take care of yourself.  And don't feel like you are being a burden.  Several people on this forum have had rough times, like Miss @Rammy with her crazy neighbor and the boss from hell, @CntryBoy777 with the troubles with his sister, Mr. @greybeard with the fun he had with Hurricane Harvey, Miss @Baymule with her mom and when buying her current house, and many others that I can't recall at the moment.  I say this not to make you feel like you have it good compared to them.  Just the opposite.  I say this to let you know that there are folks here who feel your pain.  So feel free to share as much as you like.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Devonviolet (Nov 8, 2018)

You are on the right track, girl!  Baby goats are SO cute, and the price was too good to pass up. I can totally understand why you wanted to help them all out. 

Since you are new at this, it's easy to get over zealous and a bit carried away.  However, you have done nothing that is unfixable over time.  As others have already said, kick back, take a deep breath and get some rest.  It's hard to be calm and relax when you are exhausted and frazzled.  Use this as a learning experience and move forward from this day on.  Yes, you have a lot of cute little goats. But, you have to be realistic. These goats will go from being cute little goats to being cut bigger goats with bigger appetites.  if you feed goats well (quality hay and feed, plus additional supplements) and give them appropriate health care (including supplemental shots, etc.) it can get expensive for that many adult goats. you may want to reassess and consider selling some of your sweet babies to good homes.

it's too bad that your hubby is not happy. There can be a multitude of reasons for that. But, one thing that I have learned over the years, is that communication is crucial in a good marriage.  See if you can find a peaceful time and place (after baby is in bed), when you can gently ask him what is going on.  Don't assume it is you.  It could be something totally unrelated to what you are doing with the goats, that he hasn't discussed with you yet.  The important thing is to approach it with the attitude that you are concerned about him. Don't take it personally if he is upset with you.  Ask him what you can do to help work through it, and make it right.  Keep in mind you may have to make changes, that you don''t want to make (like getting rid of all but a couple of your sweet little goats. It doesn't make sense to save a batch of little goats, to the detriment of your own life and marriage.)   Maybe down the road will be a better time to increase your herd.  Just be open to and willing to make changes, for the benefit of your marriage, and remember that goats will come and go, but your marriage is for the rest of your life.

Something that I have also learned over the years, is that if I put my husband's needs above my own, he turns around and puts my needs before HIS own.  That seems to work in almost any relationship, except for my EX husband - it was ALL about HIM. And that didn't change for the entire 16 years we were married.  I waited 12 years, to meet my sweet husband, and it was well worth it.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Rammy said:


> I certainly hope I didnt make you feel bad. That wasnt my intentions. Even I have major F ups and had to come to hard realizations of my limitations or bad judgement on alot of things. I also learned you can look at it as a learning experience or let it get you down. One thing I have found on here is that if you need advice or just to vent, there are people on here willing to give you a shoulder to cry on, advice, or support for anything you need to get off your chest.
> I know you will and are taking great care of your little babies and will always do so. Go hug your Goaties.



 No, you didn’t make me feel bad about anything. Nobody has in this forum. I was given the same or similar advice from a lot of people on this situation. That made me realize I needed to sit down and rethink  situation. I do feel really good with the way things turned out. Actually I got several positive things out of this situation. And only one bad thing came out of it. The fact that I don’t get see or be around two incredibly sweet, gentle, and loving goats everyday. But the benefit of having them for a day or two, making a new friend, getting a new vets contact information (whom I’ve already been having a conversation with), learned a few things, and a little bit of information about holistic care of animals. These by far outweigh the one negative. I learned from her that a holistic approach isn’t nessecarily a different way of treating an issue. It’s more eating your vegetables and taking a really good multivitamin. It helps boost and supplement the animals natural ability to build their defenses and increase their natural ability to fight of some common ailments. Kinda like building more white blood cells or a transfusion of white blood cells. At least that is how she uses her holistic approach. It may be different for other people as well.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> Please take care of yourself.  And don't feel like you are being a burden.  Several people on this forum have had rough times, like Miss @Rammy with her crazy neighbor and the boss from hell, @CntryBoy777 with the troubles with his sister, Mr. @greybeard with the fun he had with Hurricane Harvey, Miss @Baymule with her mom and when buying her current house, and many others that I can't recall at the moment.  I say this not to make you feel like you have it good compared to them.  Just the opposite.  I say this to let you know that there are folks here who feel your pain.  So feel free to share as much as you like.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie



I did take your words as I believe you intended for me to take it. I honestly don’t feel bad about anyone’s advice or suggestions. It the opposite. If I was going to have a deal/transaction go bad I couldn’t of had happen with a kinder and nicer person than I did. This wasn’t a bad thing that it happened. Many people don’t get the chance to either do things over differently or undo/fix one that went not so well or badly. This has been a very good experience to go through.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

This was a very good experience for me to have. I’m very grateful to have had it and I couldn’t of had it with a nicer person than I did. I am not upset, disappointed by anyone for their insight, advice, suggestions, and experiences. Honestly, I am very grateful and lucky to have this type of experience. Thing could of ended up very differently if it were with anyone other than Josselyn. Neither one of us lost anything major or expensive. Neither one of us have bad feelings about the other person or the experience. I choose to look at it with grateful eyes instead of bitterness. This was a great thing to have gone through and experience. There isn’t anything I feel bad about. Well, except possibly my stopping to say hello and see the animals. That was a spur of the moment thing and she was caught off guard. Lesson learned.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Yesterday I took two stool samples to the vet in the morning. I did get a call just before 5pm telling me that my little goats do indeed have parasites. They didn’t have the count of them at that point. I was told they had barbers pole, round worms, and either Coccidia or coccidiosis I can’t remember which was said. I was told I’d need to give them three different medications and I could get them in the morning. I did go in to pick them up this morning. They were set aside in a bag with my name on it. But, there were no directions on any of the medications. The vet forgot to give them or tell his staff what they were. Unfortunately, today is his day off and there won’t be any instructions available until tomorrow when he returns. I’m a little annoyed that I didn’t get instructions today so I could start the medication today. I suppose it’s possible he wanted to know how bad the counts were before he decided how much needed to be given. That’s just my guess though. 

I also took the heat lamp out of the goat pen as well. A couple of my goats figured out how to get to them and the fire risk greatly increased at that moment. So the lamp is completely out of their area, not just turned off. They do have the warmest area on the farm with the only exception being my SIL’s house. I will have to wait and see how they tolerate the cold at this point. It had been cut back so it was off more than it was on. I’m hoping they will do ok without it. I’ll need to keep an eye out for shivering and make sure there is no significant decrease of intake for the next few days. I can’t believe I’ve had these little guys for 6 full weeks now. The time seems to be going by really fast, yet it feels like I’ve had them for several months.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Devonviolet said:


> You are on the right track, girl!  Baby goats are SO cute, and the price was too good to pass up. I can totally understand why you wanted to help them all out.
> 
> Since you are new at this, it's easy to get over zealous and a bit carried away.  However, you have done nothing that is unfixable over time.  As others have already said, kick back, take a deep breath and get some rest.  It's hard to be calm and relax when you are exhausted and frazzled.  Use this as a learning experience and move forward from this day on.  Yes, you have a lot of cute little goats. But, you have to be realistic. These goats will go from being cute little goats to being cut bigger goats with bigger appetites.  if you feed goats well (quality hay and feed, plus additional supplements) and give them appropriate health care (including supplemental shots, etc.) it can get expensive for that many adult goats. you may want to reassess and consider selling some of your sweet babies to good homes.
> 
> ...



I think I’m considering selling possibly as many as four of them. After having the two big ones for two days I have a better idea about feeding them is going to be costly. In just the two day period of having the bigger goats there was more feed and hay eaten in those two days by all ten of them then these eight have in total over the six weeks I’ve had them. I do have a really tough time placing any animal in a new home. I have no control over how well they are being treated, fed, and cared for. I worry about the small amount of animals I have actually parted with in the past. I don’t have a problem get them into hands that are better off than we are financially, more experienced than I/we are. I don’t think about an animal being passed off to different owners during their lifetime. From my understanding wethers are considered worthless to many people, and they believe the only thing they are good for is burning up their money because eating is the the thing they are really good at. So I’m concerned that would happen to any of my goats that I may get rid of. And on the other hand I don’t think anyone wants an intact buck if they aren’t registered or of breeding standards. I don’t feel that way about bucks or wethers. I think I might prefer males or wethers over females or breeding bucks. That is just me though. I’ve always gotten along better with people of the opposite sex. And all of my truly special or favorite animals have been fixed males. So now that I’m remotely considering to part with a few of them I’m left in a new dilemma. Which would be easier to find good homes for? And which stands a better chance of having a great life. Buck or wether? I don’t put time into my animals to make a profit off of, to breed them, or to be eaten. I’m pretty sure that the outcome for any I may part with will one of those three things. I’ve never had an animal that I didn’t try very hard to give them a good life, lots of love, and taken care of the way I possibly could. These goats are going to be outdoors with a pasture of really nice alfalfa/clover/tall grass all mixed together. They won’t have acres to be on so I don’t consider that being pasture grown. They will have only about 1200-1300 sqft to eat, graze, browse, play, and do the goat thing. That is probably a space more appropriate for 3-4 goats than it is for 8 goats. At this moment and with what I’ve learned this week I’m not comfortable getting anymore goats. If I ever do gat more goats I’m thinking with the amount of space we can dedicate to goats, the amount of money, feed, hay, and vetting would also be better suited for 4-6 small or mini goats. There is a chance we could get our hands on two more acres to do our farming thing on. Then we’d have more space, hay, and grazing for them. But being really new at the farm thing, I don’t even know if they too much to where the field would continue to grow all year and sustain their bellies and bodies. Or even if long time poorly managed field has goat quality greens to provide the majority of their nutrition or if we will have provide mostly pellets and grains for them. I can’t tell the difference between different types of hay. I can tell that they are different simply by looking at them but anything more than that is a guessing game for me. I did buy bales of hay that they really, really love but honestly I don’t know what type of grass hay it is. To me and to my husband think it’s pretty much overgrown lawn grass. But from what I’ve been reading that’s one of the last things a goat will eat and only if they are hungry. I know everyone starts their learning process at different times and stages of their lives. I just found out my goats definitely have a triple parasite problem. Is it something I could have prevented, did I not do something I should have? They are growing like weeds. I think they have possibly gained 20-25 pounds since I brought them to our farm. That either tells me I’m doing a really good job taking care of them, or I’m overfeeding them. I’m not sure which. I’m all of a sudden feeling too uneducated and non experienced to be having any goats much less eight of them. I have thought about getting goats for two or three years now. But thinking is not knowing or having experience. I don’t have any interest in breeding goats not in the least bit. I don’t wish to be a dairy farmer and having to milk goats a couple time a day. It’s always been more of wanting to love them them and giving them a good life. With the added benefit of weed/brush control. Basically a glorified pet. The only reason I bought 9 babies is it cost less to buy all 9 than it would to buy three or five of them. They do it 1-4 bucklings $20 each, five or all but one of them for $10 each, or all of them for $5. At the moment it made more sense to buy all 9 of them. But in all honesty we really planned on having 3-4 goats. Yet another thing I should have thought about at least a little bit longer. Their size as adults doesn’t bother in the least. But I’m now wondering if we really have enough space and greens to properly feed and care for them.

So now I’m in another thought provoking and stressful position. I just got one issue resolved and I worked out for the best. Now do I leave them all bucks, wether all of them, or wether all but the one that I would want to use for breeding if I ever decided to breed a goat or a few goats. I think being disabled to the point where I can’t escape some of these thoughts or stresses momentarily by going to work is a whole lot more difficult than the 100 hours per week was. Odd! I guess it time to either throw caution into the wind and take things as they come. Or significantly slow myself down. I’ve never been any good at moderation. It’s either more than I can and should or not at all.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Why can’t I write simple short replies or posts? I’m starting to think that may be my method of working through issues or questions. Why can’t I just write this stuff in a journal?


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 8, 2018)

Maybe my comment in the other post better brings better understanding. We rather put a wether/buck in the freezer than go through the "what is going to happen". 
Standard bucks are rarely pets. That is just a fact.
Standard bucks in tact are used for breeding, most are selective of a buck they choose. 
People need to eat, food is good. 
A friend of mine doesn't  feel she is skilled enough to determine whether a buck born is "good enough" to be intact and bred. All her bucks are castrated at 8 weeks, they are given great care, fed well and at 80 lbs they are processed.  That valuable meat feeds her family for months.
Although we all look at our goats as pets, they are still livestock. 

I think it is wise for you to reduce. As the area you have will not be sufficient at 1,200 -1,300 SF that works out to about 35 x 35.  This will  not be enough for 2 male goats of 250# size to utilize the area for food, so although they can live in it all their nutrition will come from hay, grain... mostly hay because too much grain can cause Urinary Calculi ( I gave you a link in another thread).
You will need to monitor for parasites.

So far I think you are learning and doing well, many things you didn't know but you do now. You have time to make decisions, to rehome some etc.  Keeping 2 and learning from them I think is a great idea. You have put a lot of love and time and energy into them. 





Carla D said:


> Why can’t I write simple short replies or posts? I’m starting to think that may be my method of working through issues or questions. Why can’t I just write this stuff in a journal?



I also think "outloud" and it is a working through process. Nothing wrong with that other than you may get too many responses and think... oh goodness, I wish I hadn't said anything.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Being honest with yourself is not always the same as being hard on yourself. Recognizing that there is an "issue" is the first step to correcting it. Sorry that your significant other is upset right now. From the little you've shared, he's dealing with some personal issues as well and everything that's been happening might have overwhelmed him a bit too. Slowing things down a bit to think things through, and getting the present stuff all under control and back to a stable place should go a long way toward making everything else better.
> 
> I think it's safe to say that we're all glad to have you here with us and it's already been stated; we're here to help! Relax, slow down, reflect, think things through, write things down. Maybe start a personal journal (private as opposed to this public one) where you can write out thoughts so they don't get lost in traffic.Take the hubby and daughter and go sit with the goats   I always find myself much calmer and more relaxed after a "goat sit down session". Might help him mellow and de-stress as well. Hard to stay angry when you have little animals demanding your attention. And they're fun, and interactive too!


That really funny you mentioned a “goat sit down session”. Before I got these little guys I’d frequently visit and discuss things with Halfy. Halfy is a special sow. I visited her daily and shared with her my thoughts, frustrations, emotions quite frequently. She was very therapeutic for me. If she wasn’t 400# of dirt pushing, excitedly running around ball of pig I’d have brought her home with me. Even let her sleep in hubbys spot on the bed. She got injured the day we let the girls out of their farrowing crates. We don’t know exactly what happened. The vet couldn’t determine the injury, but felt if we moved her to a smaller area of her own, that was less muddy it might help her heal faster. So we did it. Anyways Halfy got the royal treatment while she was recovering. We’d go into her area talk with her, tell her what a great piggie she was, told her she’s beautiful, brought her wildflower bouquets to munch on, scratch her and pet her. She ate it all up. She got to the point where all I had to say was “Hey Beautiful.” And she’d come running to greet me. Yes, one on one sessions with a special animal does work wonders for a persons roughed up soul and spirit.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Maybe my comment in the other post better brings better understanding. We rather put a wether/buck in the freezer than go through the "what is going to happen".
> Standard bucks are rarely pets. That is just a fact.
> Standard bucks in tact are used for breeding, most are selective of a buck they choose.
> People need to eat, food is good.
> ...


Actually it wasn’t your comment that gave me the impression many people think wethers are only good for burning your money away. A couple of people have said it in here, I’ve seen comments saying very similar things on some of the online articles I’ve read as well. I’d be really happy if people didn’t think that way. But I guess they are right to a degree. They can’t produce babies, they can’t be used for breeding. Thought of them basically only being good at eating your feed and not being able to give back anything that’s considered valuable. I do have to disagree with you on one thing however. I know my goats aren’t any different or more special than anyone else’s. But to me they are overgrown dogs that you love to death, but you have to feed them as you would livestock. But, yes going down to 3-4 goats is probably the best for me and our little farm. My husband tells me anymore than three is considered livestock, less than that can be pets. Honestly if I did have fewer goats under my care I would have all that much more to give to a select few. That in itself makes a lot of sense to me. Now I just have to figure out what I’m going to do with them. Bucks vs wethers. Pets vs meat for us or sell to someone else for meat. Maybe I can get lucky and find a couple of people that will need a companion animal or two. Too many things to think about tonight.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 8, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Being honest with yourself is not always the same as being hard on yourself. Recognizing that there is an "issue" is the first step to correcting it. Sorry that your significant other is upset right now. From the little you've shared, he's dealing with some personal issues as well and everything that's been happening might have overwhelmed him a bit too. Slowing things down a bit to think things through, and getting the present stuff all under control and back to a stable place should go a long way toward making everything else better.
> 
> I think it's safe to say that we're all glad to have you here with us and it's already been stated; we're here to help! Relax, slow down, reflect, think things through, write things down. Maybe start a personal journal (private as opposed to this public one) where you can write out thoughts so they don't get lost in traffic.Take the hubby and daughter and go sit with the goats   I always find myself much calmer and more relaxed after a "goat sit down session". Might help him mellow and de-stress as well. Hard to stay angry when you have little animals demanding your attention. And they're fun, and interactive too!


I have done a little bit of that. But, I’m not very good at giving myself feedback like other people are. But, yes I do see your point. They certainly are fun. I do find my husband paying quite a bit of attention to these little guys. Even my FIL gets a kick out of them. They love cheese balls, and Papa Harvey knows it and where I keep a stash of them for the goats.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 8, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Maybe my comment in the other post better brings better understanding. We rather put a wether/buck in the freezer than go through the "what is going to happen".
> Standard bucks are rarely pets. That is just a fact.
> Standard bucks in tact are used for breeding, most are selective of a buck they choose.
> People need to eat, food is good.
> ...



In it's most basic element, this is simply what the centuries old domestication of livestock is all about at all levels and in most countries and cultures, it encompasses all species of fowl and livestock.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 8, 2018)

Carla D said:


> I do have to disagree with you on one thing however. I know my goats aren’t any different or more special than anyone else’s. But to me they are overgrown dogs that you love to death, but you have to feed them as you would livestock.


I don't think we disagree on that. Ours are too.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 8, 2018)

I raise sheep. Lambs are so adorable and cute, I love to hug them. I castrate the boys and name them Dinner. I love them, I care for them, I feed them, scratch and pet them. They have a good life. They have_ one bad day_ and even that is over quick. I sell the meat and we eat it. I give some away. I know what they have been fed, I know how they were cared for and I know they were loved. 

@Devonviolet and her sweet husband started with 4 pet wethers. When they were ready for their dairy does, they realized their pets would have to go. it was an agonizing decision for them. They could not bear to take them to slaughter. They sold them and the buyers said they were going to slaughter the goats. Time passed.....they had the cutest little boy baby goat you ever saw. They were going to keep him forever. Their herd increased and so did the feed bill. Reality has some hard knocks and they painfully realized that they just couldn't keep them all. They talked about it, hard decisions had to be made. 

Their freezer has goat meat in it, Goat meat from goats they raised and loved. They treat their goats exceptionally well, they love their goats. There is that reality thing again, they reasoned why should they feed, water, care for and love goats to sell them at a loss for someone else to eat? DV and her husband are proud of the meat they put on the table. When they take one to slaughter, the young man there always comments on how clean the goat is, how well cared for it is and compliments them on how healthy it is. 

DV I hope you don't mind my sharing your journey with your goats. I know how hard it was and still is for you. Indeed, I feel bad sometimes when I take lambs to slaughter. But I can't keep them all. 

Carla D I tell you this because you can only keep so many pets. There is nothing wrong with keeping pet goats. I think you are on the right track in cutting back on how many you have. Keep 3, love them, spoil them and enjoy them. I honestly do not think that you would be able to put any in the freezer. You just aren't there. You may never be there and there is nothing wrong with that. 

People here have given their advice and help and you have a lot to process and think about. Whatever you decide to do will be what is right for you and your husband. You have our support and friendship.


----------



## Devonviolet (Nov 9, 2018)

Well said, @Baymule!!!

No, I don’t mind you telling our story.  It was well written and expressed my feelings very well.  But, then you do know me really well. 

It WAS a hard decision, but like Bay said, we have to be realistic. We moved here to grow our own food, and have dairy goats, for milk and cheese. To produce milk & cheese our does have to have kids every year. That means having more goats than we can afford to feed. 

We all have to make choices, that are right for us. You most likely will never be able to butcher your animals. And that’s okay.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 9, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I raise sheep. Lambs are so adorable and cute, I love to hug them. I castrate the boys and name them Dinner. I love them, I care for them, I feed them, scratch and pet them. They have a good life. They have_ one bad day_ and even that is over quick. I sell the meat and we eat it. I give some away. I know what they have been fed, I know how they were cared for and I know they were loved.
> 
> @Devonviolet and her sweet husband started with 4 pet wethers. When they were ready for their dairy does, they realized their pets would have to go. it was an agonizing decision for them. They could not bear to take them to slaughter. They sold them and the buyers said they were going to slaughter the goats. Time passed.....they had the cutest little boy baby goat you ever saw. They were going to keep him forever. Their herd increased and so did the feed bill. Reality has some hard knocks and they painfully realized that they just couldn't keep them all. They talked about it, hard decisions had to be made.
> 
> ...


Question: is goat meat tasty? Young goats that are 4-5 months look like they wouldn’t have enough to feed a small family one meal. Will mine once their parasites have been managed start to fill out or are they still too young to fill out? I’m assuming they will start to fill out shortly. That 6-7 month old MN looked like he had a few meals on him. I had thought 6-7 month old goats may be too old to eat? Is there an ideal age to process a goat? Honestly I had seriously considered either selling them all or putting them in our freezer. I don’t feel competent enough to be able to keep them happy and HEALTHY this entire winter. Nor do we have enough decent hay to feed and provide bedding to get us through this winter. We may have enough hay/straw/bedding for 4-6 weeks. We jumped the gun and didn’t have enough time to gather what is needed to get them through the winter. We are able to produce and harvest more than enough hay during its growing season. We have enough to feed and bed all of our animals for a year or two right now. But it has been stored outside, uncovered and unprotected. The top and bottom layers of bales are moldy. I don’t know about the inner bales of the pile though. It’s ok for the pigs to eat and sleep with. But not the goats. We had been storing feed/grain in our barn until now and it is also the workshop on our farm where we have been building stalls, repairing equipment we buy on auctions. We didn’t have the space to store more than 50-60 bales of hay and straw. Over half of that is gone and we are only entering the winter months. We are slowly getting the barn/shed into functioning space so we can stockpile necessities for next winter. I’m pretty sure my husband and I could keep the goats alive this winter. But, I’m not so sure about keeping them healthy and thriving. I did some very serious thinking about this situation. I was convinced we had to do something distasteful with them so we could keep the rest of our animals in good shape and condition. I’m uncomfortable ‘winging it’ much longer than we already have. I know I’ve done some flip/flop lately. But I’ve tried to think objectively about this. After all we haven’t had them disbudded or dehorned yet at six weeks. We are trying really hard to figure out how to get that accomplished in the next few days. Plus we are going to need medication for them now. I’m not sure which would be more cost effective. Getting them from the vet or a farm supply store. I have WAY TOO MANY questions and unknowns right now to think that we could keep them fed, healthy, and thriving to feel comfortable and capable to do it. That’s why some of these questions about schedules/timelines and equipment for care and prevention has become pressing for me. Keeping them healthy is likely the only way we can keep them financially through this winter. Simply for the fact that prevention is typically less expensive than treating. Then I could also figure out how we are going to pay for them, their, care, and needs for the next year. All stuff we/I failed to consider prior to getting these cute little guys. I need to find some answers to at least a few of my questions so I can figure out how to make this work. I may be way off base with their size. I have a feeling the baby goats will weigh a minimum of 100-125 pounds by the time March or April arrives. I can’t see it working this winter. I’m not giving up on the idea of having goats on the farm. But waiting until spring is what we should have done.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 9, 2018)

I responded to some things in your other threads.
Goat meat is tasty but once they get old enough intact buck tastes gross. 

Slaughter weight is generally between 60-70 lbs 80 tops.
You must however make sure of meat withdrawal times for any meds you give him concerning the coccidia treatment and worm treatment.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 9, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> I responded to some things in your other threads.
> Goat meat is tasty but once they get old enough intact buck tastes gross.
> 
> Slaughter weight is generally between 60-70 lbs 80 tops.
> You must however make sure of meat withdrawal times for any meds you give him concerning the coccidia treatment and worm treatment.


I did see your responses. Thank you. I hadn’t even considered putting them in our freezer and eating them until last night. It is also really good to about intact bucks tasting yucky. I wasn’t sure if their meat was like a pig or like deer. I had seriously considered the thought of getting rid of either all of them or all but 2-3 going. Some of the things people in here have mentioned a few options, but I didn’t really think a lot about them until last night as well. I’m feeling a bit on the green side and a bit unprepared for this winter. The biggies being their adult size and the amount 8 grown goats will need to eat and how much that is going to cost. The other one being the fact that we really love them now and treat them much like we do as pets. But, are we going to these same feelings when they are fully grown. Whether it be we own 1 or 2, or we own 8 of them. I can’t definitivly say one way or the other. I guess there is a third thing, space available. While we might have enough room to house 8 full grown goats, will they be happy and thrive all together in that amount of space. I’m thinking they might like a bit more space for themselves at times. I do really love the goats and plan on having them on the farm. Do we have the space and resources needed to properly care for 8 large goats? I’m realizing that we may not have a suitable breed/size for what we really want and fill our desires to have goats that we can truly care for, provide for, and ultimately treat as we would a cat or dog with unlimited affection? Maybe I should be considering a mini or dwarf goat.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 9, 2018)

The young goat meat (cabrito) I have eaten (smoked or BBQd) had more of a venison taste than anything else. 
I wasn't terribly fond of it nor terribly put off by it... I would certainly eat it again fixed the same way but probably wouldn't go out of my way for it.
(I'm not a big fan of venison either except when mixed with pork in sausage)


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 9, 2018)

Some cultures are forbidden to eat castrated male animals. So there is a market for that.
Some cultures prefer old stinky buck. Some want smaller castrated.
Depends on your region.

With deer... a doe, I love- they taste great. 
A buck deer...  I can taste that rutting deer. So gross.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 9, 2018)

greybeard said:


> The young goat meat (cabrito) I have eaten (smoked or BBQd) had more of a venison taste than anything else.
> I wasn't terribly fond of it nor terribly put off by it... I would certainly eat it again fixed the same way but probably wouldn't go out of my way for it.
> (I'm not a big fan of venison either except when mixed with pork in sausage)


That is a description I can relate to. I thought mutton was goat meat. Or is it sheep? Venison is really tasty to me if it is mixed with pork as well. But a nice venison steak is tasty too, with ketchup.everything is better with ketchup.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 9, 2018)

Devonviolet said:


> Well said, @Baymule!!!
> 
> No, I don’t mind you telling our story.  It was well written and expressed my feelings very well.  But, then you do know me really well.
> 
> ...



That may possibly be correct. I’m not sure. I can butcher, eat, and enjoy one of our pigs pretty easily. Most of them receive quite a bit of attention and affection too.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 9, 2018)

Carla D said:


> I thought mutton was goat meat. Or is it sheep?


Mutton is older sheep. I try very hard not to get anywhere within smelling range of any kind of sheep; alive, dead, raw or cooked.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 9, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Mutton is older sheep. I try very hard not to get anywhere within smelling range of any kind of sheep; alive, dead, raw or cooked.


You make me laugh. Thank you.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 9, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Mutton is older sheep. I try very hard not to get anywhere within smelling range of any kind of sheep; alive, dead, raw or cooked.


Says the CATTLE man!


----------



## Baymule (Nov 9, 2018)

Carla D said:


> That may possibly be correct. I’m not sure. I can butcher, eat, and enjoy one of our pigs pretty easily. Most of them receive quite a bit of attention and affection too.


I'll put this out there....why not raise these boys until they hit 60-70 pounds and take them all to slaughter. Get them properly castrated or do it yourself, it is not that hard to do. Don't worry about disbudding or dehorning, as I understand it, you seem to have missed the "window" of opportunity and now it is a bit bigger problem. Love them, enjoy them, treat them well, this is a learning experience for you. If you can raise pigs, pet them, love them and still eat them, you can do this. 

Start over in the spring with TWO disbudded goats, get them castrated and keep them for pets. Or you might decide that you_ like_ goat meat and buy another round of $5 goats to raise for stocking the freezer. In the meantime you get to hug, spoil and love them all you want. 

You will figure this out and make the decision that is best for you.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 9, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Says the CATTLE man!


Exactly.
And I do understand fully there are people that do not like cows and/or any of their products one bit and I'm fine with that and fine with them telling me.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 9, 2018)

I think I’ve made a small step in relieving some of my stress and concerns. I have an appointment date and time for my eight little guys to meet up with the vet to all be dehorned. That visit has already been paid for. That’s one less stress as well.

I now have the medications to treat them for their parasites too. Unfortunately my instructions “follow the instructions on the manufacturers label. There is no dosage instruction on them. They have “indicated for” but no other instructions. I do have a message out for the vet to tell me how much and how often if I need to repeat.


Baymule said:


> I'll put this out there....why not raise these boys until they hit 60-70 pounds and take them all to slaughter. Get them properly castrated or do it yourself, it is not that hard to do. Don't worry about disbudding or dehorning, as I understand it, you seem to have missed the "window" of opportunity and now it is a bit bigger problem. Love them, enjoy them, treat them well, this is a learning experience for you. If you can raise pigs, pet them, love them and still eat them, you can do this.
> 
> Start over in the spring with TWO disbudded goats, get them castrated and keep them for pets. Or you might decide that you_ like_ goat meat and buy another round of $5 goats to raise for stocking the freezer. In the meantime you get to hug, spoil and love them all you want.
> 
> You will figure this out and make the decision that is best for you.





Baymule said:


> I'll put this out there....why not raise these boys until they hit 60-70 pounds and take them all to slaughter. Get them properly castrated or do it yourself, it is not that hard to do. Don't worry about disbudding or dehorning, as I understand it, you seem to have missed the "window" of opportunity and now it is a bit bigger problem. Love them, enjoy them, treat them well, this is a learning experience for you. If you can raise pigs, pet them, love them and still eat them, you can do this.
> 
> Start over in the spring with TWO disbudded goats, get them castrated and keep them for pets. Or you might decide that you_ like_ goat meat and buy another round of $5 goats to raise for stocking the freezer. In the meantime you get to hug, spoil and love them all you want.
> 
> You will figure this out and make the decision that is best for you.



I really think that may be what happens. After thinking through you philosophy on male goat/wethers, that may very well be what we will do. Doing that does give me at least two sweet options and also prevent me from worrying about what kind of life he’s having or had. I can fill our freezer and try goat for the very first time. We can decide if we like goat enough to raise $5 goats and eventually eat them. Or we can decide if we’d rather raise mini goats as pets and have endless fun with them.

My husband had come up with a similar idea. Raise them. Love them. And when we have the urge to try goat, or become financially challenged we take one or two the slaughter house as needed or desired. Which also has two pretty nice benefits. Less goats=more lovey time, food in the freezer, and slightly reduced feed and hay costs. 

Both yours and his seem doable, reasonable, and viable.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 9, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Exactly.
> And I do understand fully there are people that do not like cows and/or any of their products one bit and I'm fine with that and fine with them telling me.



Those crazy people are missing out on a really good thing.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 9, 2018)

I did manage to get the information I needed to give my boys their medication. It wasn’t from the vet I have been using for all of my goat concerns, but the vet that I got contact information earlier this week. 

With the help of my little girl we got the job done. She fed them their bottle and while they were busy enjoying their bottle I gave them their injections.

I wish I knew why they had gotten so infested. I have two suspicions.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 10, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Exactly.
> And I do understand fully there are people that do not like cows and/or any of their products one bit and I'm fine with that and fine with them telling me.


I like cows. I’ve had cows, but just not enough room. I am thinking of raising out a steer for slaughter maybe next year. I love beef.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 10, 2018)

Carla D said:


> I wish I knew why they had gotten so infested. I have two suspicions.



Generally from overcrowding. The coccidia again is something all goats pretty much have but as the goat matures there is a level of immunity. This is why most  use a prevention program.
For kids, when numbers get high it is from close quarters, eating off the ground in an already infected area.
The more puzzling part is the worms. They are awfully young to have a wormload.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

I


Southern by choice said:


> Generally from overcrowding. The coccidia again is something all goats pretty much have but as the goat matures there is a level of immunity. This is why most  use a prevention program.
> For kids, when numbers get high it is from close quarters, eating off the ground in an already infected area.
> The more puzzling part is the worms. They are awfully young to have a wormload.


I have a theory about the worms. I’m wondering if pigs could possibly get the same parasites. Early this spring, back in April we had a couple of pigs farrowing in that very same area. That area has been cleaned out really well, vacated since then. But, I never got around to sanitizing the area. I’m pretty sure my husband didn’t do it, and I know for sure my FIL didn’t do it. That seems to be the only logical explanation I can come up with. I’m trying very hard to clean their area on a daily basis because it is a crowded area and boys pee me re than puppies. But it is on a gravel floor. I’m pretty certain I haven’t been able to get it as clean as they need it to be. With that being said, does anyone have any ideas about how I can make this tight area a little easier to get clean and keep clean? Their food, hay, minerals, etc are all off the floor. Always have been.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

This has been a very odd yet interesting week for me. It’s been jam packed with great joy, frustration, heartbreak, self evaluation, learning, busyness, thankfulness,  love, sorrow, and reflection. Since a whole lot of these things have been goat related I’m going to ramble and reflect on it in here. Some is on the more personal side, but I’m not embarrassed to share it either.

Warning, this is a book.

I have met a whole lot of people with similar interest and of like mind. They have generously share their experiences, tips, suggestions, advice, and many things to think about. All of which I’m truly grateful to have been given. There was some things that I didn’t think pertained to me, that was interested in entertaining, relevant, or agree appreciate at the moment it was given. After a little time for me to ponder them I realized that there was a lot of sense, practical advice, alternatives to ponder, and so forth. Believe it or not, I think I’ve finally revisited, thought about, and should have appreciated more at the time it was given,

An unexpected reply to someone I had emailed to them. My email was basically a compliment on what they were trying to sell. She was trying to sell some of the most gorgeous animals I have ever seen and also happened to a very similar breed that I once had, fell in love with, and wanted more of. I didn’t offer to buy them as I didn’t have the $$$. But I like to give out complements, show appreciation, or acknowledge something that impressed me. It’s just something I’ve been trying to do as much of as I can. Especially during these last ten years. It’s also a nice thing to give others. I was completely surprised when she offered me one of her goats to me in hopes he would have a good life and lots of love. Later I was blindly ecstatic to find out there were actually two goats involved. I brought them home and fell in love with them. They really were the sweetest, gentlest, patient, attention seeking critters I’ve ever met. During their stay with us I experienced happiness, frustration, and ultimately sadness. But, when I do the right thing, even if it makes me sad, I can appreciate knowing I did the right thing.

I was completely over whelmed and upset with myself after getting back the results of a couple of fecal samples I took to the vet. Something I/we didn’t do or do properly had caused my 8 little goats to become loaded with three different parasites. That could have been completely prevented had proper sanitation practices had been used. Then in the same week I discover that quite a few of my boys likely have a fourth parasite. I think it’s lice, mites, but the fact that I have no clue about recognizing or being able to identify what exactly the crusty areas are with whitish and darker specks are has made me feel completely incompetent to be raising 8 little goats that need to be bottle fed. I have a feeling I’ll be lucky if something major happens to them or one or some of them die before spring much less to the end of the year.

I’ve had countless number of questions and concerns about things from feeding them properly, having adequate space for, good enough quality hay for feeding this winter, do we have decent field of hay that they can graze on. I don’t even know how to identify the different grasses in that field. I feel like I know barely enough to keep them alive much less than thrive.

I’ve been super stressed out because I missed the “window of opportunity to have my goats disbudded. All because I was to preoccupied and busy to have asked the vet, find someone who could them for us, and assumed that since he has charged us 2-3 times for vet visits or animal/pet care than other vets we’ve used that disbudding would be the same way. I was way, way off with that assumption. Now because of my ignorance they will need to be surgically removed. Which I’ve darn near missed that window as well. The vet feels pretty confidant it can still be done, buts it’s now a much bigger deal to have the job done.

****It would have $10 each to be disbudded. But even now them having them surgically removed by that vet is only $25 each. Quite reasonable for the anesthesia, time, surgical procedure, I think.*

I had the frustration of not only having to wait to get my boys their medication because the vet didn’t bother to give me the directions like the ones I’m used to getting from doctor ordered prescriptions for humans and when I was nursing. I had to wait two additional days to start their treatment because my vet was off for the next day and had already left for the day. When I do go back to pick the meds up I’m given the worst possible instructions. “Follow the manufacturers label for dosage.” Ok, I go home and there is no dosing information at all. Just what the medication was indicated for.  So four more calls and emails to my vet because it’s already Friday afternoon. Meaning the boys would have to wait until Monday to start their meds. I actually called another vet to see if they would be willing to give me some dosing instructions so I can finally get them given. Now I have to figure out how I’m going to give 8 wiggly, busy, strong little goats three different injections. The CoRid I could put in their bottle. But three shots? My husband and I got into a very heated disagreement because he won’t help me give them to the goats.

Now I have a problem. It was going to take some very thought provoking and creative solution to get four different medications into each of my 8 goats. After a little thinking I came up with a pretty creative plan. This plan would involve my 4 year old daughters help. Thankfully she loves to help. I set up a small work station so I could get one goat at a time all of their meds, their bottles, and a little special attention for taking four different medications. Because I don’t think a goat would be pleased getting a sticker or two like my daughter does when she goes to the doctor. The plan was to bring one goat out at a time, have my daughter give them their medicated bottle and while they were distracted with their bottles I’d give them their injections. IT WORKED !!!

Over the last couple of days I’ve questioned our ability to keep not only our baby goats but our pigs, cats, and rabbits fed and healthy this winter. I realized how much these 8 were consuming daily. Well crap! These boys are only going to get bigger and bigger. Which means so is their appetite, amount of feed and hay, and growing feed bill. I freaked out! A couple of generous people in this forum had given me a couple of suggestions of what to do with the goats. Frankly I wasn’t really open to their suggestions. Mostly because they involved eating the goats, my pets. But after my freak out about caring for all of our animals this winter, I began to think about the couple of options/suggestions that I had quickly dismissed when they were given. I took those suggestions and really thought about the logistics, feasibility, and practicality of these suggestions. By gosh, they really were good and genius solutions to almost all of my concerns about my knowledge, financial ability, and the level of unpreparedness we were in. In fact I got a really great sense of relief from these suggestions. While they were not at all what I planned to do with my goats I was reminded that plans change. Sometimes more than once. I finally got it. I do have a couple very good choices I can make if the situation arrives and we don’t know how we are going to keep everybody fed. Both four legged and two legged species. I can truly embrace these ideas. Thank you. I think you know who you are.

Because I’ve been all over the place with my plans, thoughts, and moods I did some self assessment. It wasn’t easy. But I tried to do it with an objective and open mind. My assessment wasn’t pretty at all. Basically I came up that I was incompetent, quick to judge, not giving things enough thought, and acting too quickly. Ouch! That is the exact person I try really hard to not be. I’m going to need to make some, actually a lot of changes if I’m going to be able to reduce my stress, unpredictability, etc.

I have had a conversation with a gal who has a very similar history as mine. She even loves cats. Wow! And her kitty looks almost identical as my late Hunter. She was the sunshine of my week. And she was there when it was least expected and at just the right time.

Another long winded and wordy post. Some days I wish I was a woman of few words. It would be a lot easier on my fingers and wrist if I were. But I can’t have everything. Oh well. If you made it this far, thank you for reading.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 10, 2018)

Considering you have had an overwhelming amount of info thrown out there I think you are doing a great job of sorting through and working it out. 
Every goat owner struggles with decisions of some type or another. LOL look at my own journal and you will see how many times I ramble on about how I need to place some does or bucks... but I just love this one or I just love that one. They are amazing creatures and sure do capture your heart.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 10, 2018)

I must have missed what Bay mentioned but my farm partner mentioned you last night saying why dehorn and go through the expense for the goats she is rehoming.  
I missed it completely. I tend to focus on health /problems etc and don't always connect in other areas.

You have learned a great deal, and one of my favorite scriptures is this one.

Experience brings hope, and Hope maketh you not ashamed.

We learn through experience!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Hello Carla, i have still been following your journey , you have been receiving  lots of advice and options. I have been trying not to add any more of my opinions to your decision  process. ....But my thoughts are with the advice @Baymule gave you yesterday...why spend the $$ to de horn your goats and put that extra stress on them..Bay laid out a very workable solution to your dilemma. ... personally  that is the road i would travel, ...... i still wish you well but  i am going  back to my quiet corner and  just lurk ....


I do like her idea a whole lot more now than when a similar idea was mentioned a few days ago. Since we already have an appointment to get all of them dehorned and it’s been prepaid I’m going to go through with the dehorning. They are really becoming a safety issue for me and my daughter who do all of their goat cares. My daughter would be an explosive grenade every time we went to the farm and work with them if I don’t let her in to help. I have to let her help me otherwise she’s throwing a tantrum about not going in there, she’s cold, she’s hungry, she wants to go home, you name it. A four year old can throw a tantrum over anything and everything if they want. Then if I left her at home, if my husband isn’t working or sleeping I have him throwing a not so pretty adult size tantrum. We do plan on eating them ourselves. Probably won’t do them all at the same time. But one or two at a time. We won’t have “wonder how he’s doing” thoughts. We will have some home grown meat in our freezer. We can always buy more $5 goats to do the same thing with them or we can get a much smaller breed a couple of them and make them our pets. They won’t get huge, won’t eat as much feed or hay, won’t cost as much to care for, we will have a more adequate amount of pasture for them, and they will stay small,cute, and fun to be around. Not overwhelmingly big for my daughter to be around. But, dehorning is an absolute MUST DO if we are going to be keeping them any longer than a few days. Safety has to come first.

I do agree with both of you. Eating our boys/wethers is the best option for them and the easiest option for our minds and hearts.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 10, 2018)

Carla D said:


> My daughter would be an explosive grenade every time we went to the farm and work with them if I don’t let her in to help. I have to let her help me otherwise she’s throwing a tantrum about not going in there, she’s cold, she’s hungry, she wants to go home, you name it.


Sounds like she is 'throwing a tantrum' out of boredom'.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Sounds like she is 'throwing a tantrum' out of boredom'.


She’s always been a helper as long as she’s been able to. She has wanted to be where the action is since birth. Which could be a direct result of the nonstop attention she received during her three week hospital stay when she was born.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> @greybeard  that wasn't a very nice comment, ...now, back to my quiet corner


I wish I had a happy and quiet corner. Maybe I’d have better mood control. Doubt it though.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Now you got it...stick with that plan,  when we did / do our animals....i do several at a time so i don't  think about who is at dinner....in the current world that we live in, being a little more self sufficient  is a good thing....now i will hush up and go back to my corner....


Good idea. I don’t know if I want to know who I’m eating.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> I must have missed what Bay mentioned but my farm partner mentioned you last night saying why dehorn and go through the expense for the goats she is rehoming.
> I missed it completely. I tend to focus on health /problems etc and don't always connect in other areas.
> 
> You have learned a great deal, and one of my favorite scriptures is this one.
> ...


In case you didn’t find it.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> S
> 
> She is your child, you don't  need to explain goat berries  to anyone ....nobody should make any comment about anyone's  child .....particularly  when you have been going through  your goat  trials and tribulations. .....children learning how to care for animals is  a great learning  experience. ..enjoy your little helper ....now back to my corner, lol.


Then you’ll laugh at this. This morning after we fed them their bottles she witnessed a big bunch of berries dropped and said look he just went big poopy then she proceeded to walk behind each and every one of them and comment “big poopy, small poopy, no poopy” she cracks me up when I’m not too irritated to appreciate it.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Sounds like she is 'throwing a tantrum' out of boredom'.


That’s funny.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Considering you have had an overwhelming amount of info thrown out there I think you are doing a great job of sorting through and working it out.
> Every goat owner struggles with decisions of some type or another. LOL look at my own journal and you will see how many times I ramble on about how I need to place some does or bucks... but I just love this one or I just love that one. They are amazing creatures and sure do capture your heart.


Thank you.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Hello Carla, i have still been following your journey , you have been receiving  lots of advice and options. I have been trying not to add any more of my opinions to your decision  process. ....But my thoughts are with the advice @Baymule gave you yesterday...why spend the $$ to de horn your goats and put that extra stress on them..Bay laid out a very workable solution to your dilemma. ... personally  that is the road i would travel, ...... i still wish you well but  i am going  back to my quiet corner and  just lurk ....


Your thoughts and opinions are always welcome. I hope you have a nice warm blanket and a cup of coffee or hot chocolate in your corner.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 10, 2018)

BWA-HA-HA-HA!!!!! I am that terrible person that labels the bag with the name of that animal..... A friend's truck got hit by a Kama-Kazie deer, I labeled those bags ROAD KILL.  If i have a special chicken, I put their name on the bag. Pigs, well, I know that ALL the pork came from a certain pig, but my DD said not to tell her who she was eating. Lamb, pretty much the same, I know who is in my freezer! LOL

So if you_ don't_ want to know who donated that shoulder roast to the "cause"...….'cause you are feeding your family, then yes, take 2-3 at one time so you can mix them up.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 10, 2018)

We don't butcher until they are in the 120-150 pound range so we just do one at a time and the freezer shelf is labeled with which one it was.   They have a good life up until their last day.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

Baymule said:


> BWA-HA-HA-HA!!!!! I am that terrible person that labels the bag with the name of that animal..... A friend's truck got hit by a Kama-Kazie deer, I labeled those bags ROAD KILL.  If i have a special chicken, I put their name on the bag. Pigs, well, I know that ALL the pork came from a certain pig, but my DD said not to tell her who she was eating. Lamb, pretty much the same, I know who is in my freezer! LOL
> 
> So if you_ don't_ want to know who donated that shoulder roast to the "cause"...….'cause you are feeding your family, then yes, take 2-3 at one time so you can mix them up.


Road Kill! Oh my.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 10, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> We don't butcher until they are in the 120-150 pound range so we just do one at a time and the freezer shelf is labeled with which one it was.   They have a good life up until their last day.


An added bonus is they had a good life all the way up to the last brief moment.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 12, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> We don't butcher until they are in the 120-150 pound range so we just do one at a time and the freezer shelf is labeled with which one it was.   They have a good life up until their last day.



Do you have any particular reasons why you butcher at that size? Like to determine what size has the best flavor and is most cost effective to have butchered. Do you process your own or do you have someone else process them?


----------



## Carla D (Nov 12, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I'll put this out there....why not raise these boys until they hit 60-70 pounds and take them all to slaughter. Get them properly castrated or do it yourself, it is not that hard to do. Don't worry about disbudding or dehorning, as I understand it, you seem to have missed the "window" of opportunity and now it is a bit bigger problem. Love them, enjoy them, treat them well, this is a learning experience for you. If you can raise pigs, pet them, love them and still eat them, you can do this.
> 
> Start over in the spring with TWO disbudded goats, get them castrated and keep them for pets. Or you might decide that you_ like_ goat meat and buy another round of $5 goats to raise for stocking the freezer. In the meantime you get to hug, spoil and love them all you want.
> 
> You will figure this out and make the decision that is best for you.



Do you have any particular reasons why you butcher at that size? Like to determine what size has the best flavor and is most cost effective to have butchered. Do you process your own or do you have someone else process them?


----------



## Baymule (Nov 12, 2018)

We take ours to slaughter. I want specific cuts that are beyond my area of expertise. If I had to, I could butcher myself, but it is easier to just take them and have done. Slaughter weight doesn't make much difference in taste, I have taken a nearly 3 year old ram to slaughter and he tasted just fine. But that is not the case with a lot of "intact" male animals. If it is breeding season, the meat can be gamy because the hormones are raging.

Usual rule of thumb is to slaughter before or at 1 year of age, sooner if you can get them to the weight desired or just want them off the feed bill.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 12, 2018)

Carla - @Baymule hit the reasons we butcher when we do.  Most of our sheep that will get butchered are right around 90 pounds at 90 days and will slow down a bit after that since we pull them off of the creep feeders.  They are just about at their ideal weight for what we want at a little under a year old and we want them out of the fields so we can get back to our rotation.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 12, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> Carla - @Baymule hit the reasons we butcher when we do.  Most of our sheep that will get butchered are right around 90 pounds at 90 days and will slow down a bit after that since we pull them off of the creep feeders.  They are just about at their ideal weight for what we want at a little under a year old and we want them out of the fields so we can get back to our rotation.


how do you get your sheep to 90# at 90 days?


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 12, 2018)

All of our lambs get a pound of feed a day starting at about 30 days.  A pound of gain a day is common for Katahdins in our size range.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 13, 2018)

I have eight little bucks at the vet being dehorned surgically, and banded. I hadn’t planned on them getting banded until their sweet little heads have healed. But, the vet offered to do it since they are there and getting the benefit of anesthesia. The two vets will also be looking at a couple of different skin issues, and I have 2-3 that are coughing/sneezing. I’m really hoping that all of my health concerns for them be assessed. I’m really hoping if I can get them all healthy, no parasites that I can prevent ang keep all eight them from getting sick.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 13, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> All of our lambs get a pound of feed a day starting at about 30 days.  A pound of gain a day is common for Katahdins in our size range.


Thank you.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 13, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> how do you get your sheep to 90# at 90 days?





Baymule said:


> We take ours to slaughter. I want specific cuts that are beyond my area of expertise. If I had to, I could butcher myself, but it is easier to just take them and have done. Slaughter weight doesn't make much difference in taste, I have taken a nearly 3 year old ram to slaughter and he tasted just fine. But that is not the case with a lot of "intact" male animals. If it is breeding season, the meat can be gamy because the hormones are raging.
> 
> Usual rule of thumb is to slaughter before or at 1 year of age, sooner if you can get them to the weight desired or just want them off the feed bill.


That’s really similar to how we decide to either sell or butcher of young pigs.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 13, 2018)

I’m really irritated by my vet. He’s telling me I need to give them something daily. Yet he didn’t tell me how much or for how long.

I pointed out to him that a few of them have a nasty cough/sneeze. Well he didn’t observe it. They were put under anesthesia with in 30 seconds of being taken out of the car.

I told him about a couple of skin conditions that I had abserved on three different goats and where they are. He didn’t even notice a large spot on our only solid white goat.

I’m coming to the conclusion that he’s not as competent about goats as I had first believed.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Nov 13, 2018)

I like to have my vet write instructions down just so everything is clear.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 13, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I don't keep a journal, my blabberfingers just take on a life of their own and wander all over the place.


Which is why I didn't know about your TW until I clicked on the banner thing on the forum page!



Baymule said:


> it is a one way road to hell and back.


Or just "to".


----------



## Baymule (Nov 13, 2018)

@Bruce don't you ever click on "New Posts" ?


----------



## Bruce (Nov 13, 2018)

That is how I found Carla's journal. No I don't usually click new posts, some days I can barely keep up with the BYC and BYH threads I follow! Back unhappy today so I ran through all the posts in those threads and checked the "new posts".


----------



## Carla D (Nov 13, 2018)

Bruce said:


> That is how I found Carla's journal. No I don't usually click new posts, some days I can barely keep up with the BYC and BYH threads I follow! Back unhappy today so I ran through all the posts in those threads and checked the "new posts".


I’m sorry your back isn’t happy today. I hope it feels better quickly for you.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 13, 2018)

Feeling so disheartened, frustrated, and ultimately confused. We have never been told that we under feed our animals. Not pigs, cats, rabbits. When I picked up my goat meds on Friday the vets jaw dropped when I told him my 6 week old goats were pushing 20-25 pounds. For some reason he was thinking they were only 10 pounds. Tonight when I picked the goats up from the vet he told me my goats were under weight. I need to feed them more. I don’t know which to believe. Are they too big or too small. He still didn’t give me instructions on how to give the goat medication. I had to get one of his other vets tell me how, how long, and route. I’m beginning to think he may not be as good a vet as I had once thought. I don’t know what to think of his at this point. I’m thinking I should try and find a new large animal vet.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 13, 2018)

I agree, find another vet.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 13, 2018)

frustratedearthmother said:


> I like to have my vet write instructions down just so everything is clear.


I wanted him to do the same thing. He refused to. Actually told to follow the direction on the manufacturers label. I’m so irritated.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 13, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I agree, find another vet.


I think so . Thank you.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Nov 13, 2018)

Absolutely time to find another vet!


----------



## Bruce (Nov 13, 2018)

Yep, time to go find that other vet the goat lady told you about.


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 13, 2018)

Sadly, goats are not a "valued" livestock animal in this country. Livestock Vets prefer to concentrate on horses and cattle, also  sheep if in a large sheep raising area. Most today prefer to stick with dogs and cats as that provides the best income.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 13, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Sadly, goats are not a "valued" livestock animal in this country. Livestock Vets prefer to concentrate on horses and cattle, also  sheep if in a large sheep raising area. Most today prefer to stick with dogs and cats as that provides the best income.


That is so sad and frustrating. I don’t understand why goats aren’t at least introduced in vet school. Some basics should be given.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 13, 2018)

Carla D said:


> That is so sad and frustrating. I don’t understand why goats aren’t at least introduced in vet school. Some basics should be given.



They are, sheep too. We have a young vet that tries. He said he didn't know much about sheep, I said we didn't either and we'd learn together. He is pet and farm animal vet. He diagnosed our ewe with ruptured prepubic tendon and put her down while I bawled my eyes out. He looked it up on the internet, made phone calls to confirm his diagnosis and told us. There are good vets out there, you just have to find them.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 14, 2018)

Baymule said:


> They are, sheep too. We have a young vet that tries. He said he didn't know much about sheep, I said we didn't either and we'd learn together. He is pet and farm animal vet. He diagnosed our ewe with ruptured prepubic tendon and put her down while I bawled my eyes out. He looked it up on the internet, made phone calls to confirm his diagnosis and told us. There are good vets out there, you just have to find them.


I found a vet with little experience on goats. Everything she’s learned was from her SIL who raises goats. I told her I’d love to work with her as I’m new as well. That we should be able to figure something out.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 14, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Carla, please don't  feel bad, everyone has agreed with you about the vet....and goats with a heavy worm load  are not going to gain alot of weight....don't  beat yourself up....you have no idea what condition they were in when the dairy lady was selling them. This is your first time with goats, and you are learning...i promise you if this was a year from now and you were reading  this as someone  elses story you  would tell them your experience  and probably tell them not to let their heart  overide their brain.....


You are right. I would tell them that.  Thank you for pointing that out to me.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 14, 2018)

Progress report for the morning after their dehorning and banding yesterday.

I was very concerned about many of them after I gave them their thiamine and penicillin shots. Some of them dropped to the ground after giving their shots. Nearly all of them did not drink their entire bottle either. That I did expect considering everything they went through yesterday. I did put their heat lamp back in their house two days ago. They were still lightly shivering. But the biggest reason I did it was because of all of the medical issues they had been or were going to be getting. I wanted to make things as comfortable as possible during their recovery. I am also considering giving them a third bottle everyday. I may not give the full 20 ounces I don’t know. 

When I went out there this morning I kinda expected to find one or two dead. But nobody died and they were really happy to see me this morning. They all got out of their house and were happy to be getting their bottle this morning. Most of them did not drink their entire bottle but it’s still less than 24 hours since their procedures. This morning it was pretty obvious that they ARE underweight. Some of them more so than others. I’ve been talking with my new vet about this issue. We’ve decided to give them more of the Calf Manna pellets since they seem to like them and are eating them better than the rest of their pellets. I also gave them some cracked corn this morning. I haven’t done that before. The vet seems to think that may as well help them gain some weight. Since their FAMACHA is really low we also discussed the option of giving them either iron injections or Red Cell orally. They have been through so much lately that I want to do whatever I can to help them recover, gain weight, and be more comfortable.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 15, 2018)

My little guys were looking pretty good this morning. They were very eager to get their bottles tonight. All but three drank their entire bottle. The three that didn’t are my typical lighter drinkers. I did discover something interesting tonight. They have been sifting through their mixture of pellets. They are only eating the calf manna pellets and pushing the other two pellets out of their way. I think they have been doing that for at least a week now.


----------



## Sheepshape (Nov 15, 2018)

Goat kefir is supposed to be a great immune booster.....so another reason for having goats?  Of course, you'd need dairy goats. if you decide to make it yourself.

 Personally I'm a sheep hugger, but a goat cwtsch (Welsh word which encompasses hugging, kissing , caressing etc) is VERY nice.

I haven't read all of this post, but have you tried CBD oil for chronic pain? You'll need the higher strengths to be effective (over 10%) and it's a bit pricey over here, but many folk with chronic pain say it helps a lot. Chronic pain is such a complex phenomenon....both the physical aspects and the psychological overlay. CBD definitely affects the pathways between perception and reaction to pain in the brain. You're probably aware, but CBD oil is totally legal, contains minimal THC, so won't make you high.

As to when to stop? When you feel the time is right, and not because other folk think so/you have reached some 'magic figure' age/you're becoming an embarrassment to your children (I was going to say 'kids', but you will NEVER be an embarrassment to your goats).


----------



## greybeard (Nov 15, 2018)

Carla D said:


> hey have been sifting through their mixture of pellets. They are only eating the calf manna pellets and pushing the other two pellets out of their way. I think they have been doing that for at least a week now.


lots of animals (incl humans) do that.
I still push beets and brussels sprouts out of the way. (I push the nasty brussels sprouts clean out the window)


----------



## Baymule (Nov 15, 2018)

Just like their kid human counterparts, they only want the good stuff!


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 15, 2018)

And the good news? It doesn't stop when they're adults! They STILL push everything out of the bowl to get the best stuff first.


----------



## Sheepshape (Nov 15, 2018)

greybeard said:


> nasty brussels sprouts


Nasty?....I love them, grow them in my garden, eat them hot, cold and shredded raw.


----------



## Sheepshape (Nov 15, 2018)

My kitchen counter right now......just off the garden...yum


----------



## Carla D (Nov 15, 2018)

Sheepshape said:


> Goat kefir is supposed to be a great immune booster.....so another reason for having goats?  Of course, you'd need dairy goats. if you decide to make it yourself.
> 
> Personally I'm a sheep hugger, but a goat cwtsch (Welsh word which encompasses hugging, kissing , caressing etc) is VERY nice.
> 
> ...


Good morning @Sheepshape ,
I’ve never heard of goat kefir. I’ll have to look that up. That might be a really thing to be giving my little guys.

I sure do love hugging, kissing, cuddling, caressing my little goats. I think baby goats were made for that reason, probably sheep as well.

It’s interesting you suggested hemp/CBD oil. I have been taking it for about three months now. It is a really big help, if I remember to take it. It also helps me mellow out, and clears my thoughts. I


----------



## Sheepshape (Nov 15, 2018)

Carla D said:


> goat kefir.


It's a sort of fermented goat milk product....different bacterial culture from yoghourt, but a similar principal. You drink the kefir once or twice a day ( heck it's nasty in my opinion, but holding the nose helps!). You don't have to have the sprouts, though.

Kids and lambs were meant to be hugged....no doubt at all in my mind. With a nice, tame mum, sitting in the pen and petting them at the same time is really rewarding.

CBD is greatly underrated in my opinion....again not the nicest taste, but a little bitterness never hurt anyone. I wonder if sniffer dogs react to it, or are they detectingTHC ?

Good luck with your 'new food'


----------



## Carla D (Nov 15, 2018)

greybeard said:


> lots of animals (incl humans) do that.
> I still push beets and brussels sprouts out of the way. (I push the nasty brussels sprouts clean out the window)


Why would you even put them on your plate or in your house in the first place?


----------



## Carla D (Nov 15, 2018)

This morning when I went out to feed my little goats my new vet and I decided that they were probably ready to have their dressings removed. It did take a little finesse. But they are all off and only two areas oozed a little bit afterwards. I have some pictures. The gauze was a bit on the tough side to remove. I had to slightly moisten the gauze first. Then I grabbed a corner and let the goat remove it at his own pace. That worked out pretty good. I even got a picture of one of their FAMACHAs. They are light, but not as bad as I had first suspected. They all seemed to tolerate the removal of their bandages quite well. All but one of them drank their entire bottle this morning. They were all happy to have a little attention this morning as well.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 15, 2018)

Sheepshape said:


> My kitchen counter right now......just off the garden...yumView attachment 54750


That’s pretty good to be having fresh produce into November from your garden. Thatpretty cool.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 15, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Happy to read they are drinking better, i used to drink the kefier that i got ar Publix for my own issues...and the CBD oil, where can that be purchased? My dr and i just talked about my wanting ti get off of my zanyax  for PTSD, and he said the medical mariguana  would be great for me...but its still not available  in florida without jumping thru hoops....so he prescribes another drug for my nightmares.....really interested in the oil if i can buy it online ?  Let me know please if you would....your four legged kids are doing well ? I saw the after surgery pictures.....hopefully  you are on the upside of your goat drama.....


I do think I’m on the upside of the goat drama finally. The little guys aren’t even holding theirs tucked anymore. Not quite a flag in the wind. But, I think that’s a really good sign of them starting to feel better.

I’ve never tried kefir before.

You can buy CBD or hemp oil online from Amazon.com. I’ll add a few links of the stuff that has been working well for me. I did start out with a really low dose. But I’m using a much higher dose right now because I’m out of a couple of medications that help control my fibromyalgia. It does seem to be working every bit as well as the prescription medications.
I started out with the third picture. I loved it. I used it for several months. I’ve been trying many different brands, dosages every time I order, I try one or two new ones. The next bottle I tried was the second picture. Because I liked it so much I switched to this one. Over the last two three months I’ve been using the first one pictured. I really like this one a lot. It is also one of the cheapest ones available on Amazon.com. I do currently have a bottle of the fourth picture. I was curious to know if it would provide better relief. I think it does. But I only tried it because I had a few extra dollars available. It’s a bit pricy for my liking, but it does work really good. Most of the CBD oils I have pictured are either flavorless or mint flavored. They aren’t too bad to take. If you have any questions please feel free to ask me. MMJ is only available for young children with severe seizure issues in Wisconsin. That’s why I’ve tried these. I do want to let you know that CBD oils can work differently for everyone. It’s kind of a trial and error thing until you find one you like. I hope this helps you.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 15, 2018)

Glad all went well with the dehorning.

I am curious why you are feeding calf manna and also the cracked corn.
Calf manna is extremely high in protein and the *max for calcium is 1.2%*  and *min for phosphorus is 0.6% *
Not a good Ch ratio because it isn't a true 2:1 and they really should have a higher calcium  Because the max is just that meaning it in all likelihood is lower and the minimum is also just that and in all likelihood higher so you could have a 1:1 ratio. That is UC waiting to happen.  As well the cracked corn is also something to watch for.
Keep in mind getting the boys to gain weight is a process and many make the mistake of just giving more groceries, that can be more harmful in the longrun. Good hay and good minerals is the most important. 

Did you ever get a chance to read the article I posted the link for on Urinary Calculi?


----------



## Carla D (Nov 15, 2018)

Tonight was a really good night with the little goats. They were all very happy to see Abigail and myself. They were holding their tails much looser than they had been for over a week. And they ALL drank their full 20oz bottle of formula. They even got a treat tonight. Well, three of them did. The rest weren’t interested at that time. Ringo, Junior, and Butch all loved the Cheetos we gave them.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 15, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Glad all went well with the dehorning.
> 
> I am curious why you are feeding calf manna and also the cracked corn.
> Calf manna is extremely high in protein and the *max for calcium is 1.2%*  and *min for phosphorus is 0.6% *
> ...


Yes. I did read it and I read a few others that I could find. I had put a cup of cracked corn in because both vets suggested I give them more grain to help them put on weight. Then I am giving more calf manna because out of the mixture of three pellets I give them they are picking through and only eating the calf manna. The little guys don’t really like the cracked corn so I won’t be giving them anymore of that. I plan on increasing the calf manna in their pellet mixture and see if they may eat some of the goat and alfalfa pellets as well. I haven’t really had the chance to mix up a new formula of pellets yet to feed them. I am giving them a mix of three different hay/hay blends everyday and all they can eat. They don’t seem to be eating any of the goat minerals from manna pro that I’ve given them. I’m not sure how to get them to eat some of it. I do need to figure out how to feed them now that they are wethered. I just haven’t had the chance to figure it out yet. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I’ll be making the time to research that.


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 15, 2018)

cheetos are a rather expensive snack for the goats... simple animal crackers (cookies) are pretty popular and you get a big bag of them for cheap.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 15, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> cheetos are a rather expensive snack for the goats... simple animal crackers (cookies) are pretty popular and you get a big bag of them for cheap.


The only reason they got Cheetos tonight is we had some small bags available. I bought a 2 gallon tub of cheese balls a few weeks ago. They love them to the moon and back. They were really reasonably priced. I am trying to give salty type treats in hope that might make them drink some or more water. Am I thinking along the right lines for that? I’ve even tried Apple Cider Vinegar in their water. They really don’t seem interested in water of any form. I did cut out one of their bottles thinking that may encourage their drinking as well. It hasn’t. Do you have any suggestions. They aren’t eating their Goat Minerals either. I can’t figure that out either. I tried sprinkling the minerals over the cheese balls. But that didn’t work.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 15, 2018)

Leave a good feed for them but I urge you to get them off the calf manna. It's like anything, just because they like it better doesn't mean it will be good for them. 
Himalayan salt licks are great for getting them to drink. They are young though and may not be attracted to them yet. Don't worry too much about the mineral just yet, they are young and bucks don't take as much mineral as does for some reason. Considering they are non working animals they will not need much in the way of high proteins. My mature bucks rarely touch their minerals. I think our bucks get enough good hay and feed that they don't need them, however some goats are just boogers!  

I get the treats but this is not the age to do that. You want actual nutrition. Hay and leave grain down, they are still on bottle and will slowly graduate to food.
You have come this far so feeding good practices will be important.  We have a doe that is so crazy about beet pulp that she becomes crazy over it. So bad that she will refuse her feed and stomp, throw her self down, kick when milking, won't let you milk her all over a tantrum because now all she wants is beet pulp. Guess who no longer gets beet pulp! Yep. It's like a kid that only wants to eat dessert but not dinner. Goats, gotta love 'em. 

I also thought I'd mention that often kids do learn from watching other goats, mature goats, they mimic and copy. Having all BB's and no mature animals it will just be a slower process for water etc. 
Just didn't want you worrying.


----------



## Sheepshape (Nov 16, 2018)

Southern by Choice is giving you excellent advice, Carla. Animals will eat foods of little food value much as we do as they generally taste good.

I'm also comforted that other folk buy supermarket treats for their animals......I buy at least 15 packets of biscuits and 7 loaves of bread for mine...but I limit the amount any one individual gets (hand feeding).Honestly, though, I'm NOT advocating this.

B&B Happy goats.....as Carla says, buy CBD on line. Make sure that it has at least 10% CBD. Medical cannabis isn't legal in Britain, but CBD oil is. CBD contains active and effective cannabinoids without the THC....so can be very effective without having to do anything illegal or go to extreme measures to purchase it. (Sorry I'm unable to expand the size of your CBD pics. due to an internet speed of 0.13 download here in the sticks) I'm using Entourage Oil from Love CBD based in Holland.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

The only reason I put out the cracked corn was because I had two vets telling me I should do that. Until they had their horns surgically removed earlier this week I’d never given them any actual grain. I’ve read in here that many people don’t give their goats grain at all. Plus I’ve also read that most goats are perfectly ok/happy if they don’t have grain at all. I was thinking that two different vets recommended I do that, I should give it a try. I do know that it is really hard to find a goat knowledgeable vet as well. The Calf Manna was what my new vet had suggested. That’s why I’ve been feeding that. Only because I figured they probably knew a little bit more than I do. I have been questioning whether I’ve been feeding them well, just as much as I’ve been questioning my poor level of knowledge about goats. I would really appreciate some knowledgeable advice from people in here. As well as their reason or logic for their recommendation. Not because I question anyone in here. I just really want to know the whys I should do things a certain way so I can start making some educated decisions of my own. Thank you. The picture of what I give my goats has been up until the last few days. It is for all of them as a group, not individually.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 16, 2018)

Carla D said:


> As well as their reason or logic for their recommendation. Not because I question anyone in here. I just really want to know the whys I should do things a certain way so I can start making some educated decisions of my ow


This. I suspect you have a natural curiosity about a lot or most things in life..This, is a good trait to have. Many have it, some do not.

 I often see people make statements or give instructions regarding agriculture and livestock but leave out the why and how-it-works part in all manner of subjects.

It should never be enough just to know 'something' works. We must all strive to understand how it works and why it works as it does, in all things.........otherwise, it's just 'experience' and not knowledge. The 2 are not the same thing. 

Not to stray too far off subject, but if BYH is ever to be regarded by the greater ag internet community as THE Preeminent knowledge resource for herdsmen, it is incumbent upon each of us to make sure everything we post is accurate, truthful, hopefully repeatable, and as verifiable as possible, but keeping in mind not everything that works in one situation or location is applicable to another.
Each of us can say 'anything' but those statements don't necessarily make them true or accurate and I tend not to accept things that are just 'thrown out there'. 

There is a centuries old philosophy (Hitchens's razor) that says:
'That which is/can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence'.
I tend to follow it if no explanation or good resource is given.

Farming, regardless of size and scope, is a life long learning experience and the easiest and cheapest way to learn is thru the experiences of others instead of making the same costly mistakes ourselves.
I'm pretty old now, and still very much learning, but I will not just accept someone's word for something. There has to be some back up for it, and I try very hard to make  lengthy explanations of why and how things work when I tender advice.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

Sheepshape said:


> Southern by Choice is giving you excellent advice, Carla. Animals will eat foods of little food value much as we do as they generally taste good.
> 
> I'm also comforted that other folk buy supermarket treats for their animals......I buy at least 15 packets of biscuits and 7 loaves of bread for mine...but I limit the amount any one individual gets (hand feeding).Honestly, though, I'm NOT advocating this.
> 
> B&B Happy goats.....as Carla says, buy CBD on line. Make sure that it has at least 10% CBD. Medical cannabis isn't legal in Britain, but CBD oil is. CBD contains active and effective cannabinoids without the THC....so can be very effective without having to do anything illegal or go to extreme measures to purchase it. (Sorry I'm unable to expand the size of your CBD pics. due to an internet speed of 0.13 download here in the sticks) I'm using Entourage Oil from Love CBD based in Holland.


I did try looking for your Entourage Oil. Their website is all out of it and Amazon.com doesn’t have it. But, if it’s reasonably priced and available I will try it. Thank you.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

greybeard said:


> This. I suspect you have a natural curiosity about a lot or most things in life..This, is a good trait to have. Many have it, some do not.
> 
> I often see people make statements or give instructions regarding agriculture and livestock but leave out the why and how-it-works part in all manner of subjects.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I do and always have wanted logic/reasoning/rationale behind most things. Especially if it involves the health, welfare, maintenance of people, pets, animals. It is very important to me to know the whys and why nots of these things.

I have always been a bit naive or generous with people. I’d prefer to take people and their words and actions for face value. That may be dumb on my part. But I think people want to be good, honest, and fair. I know I do. I’d like to think I’m not the only person that way. I’ve been given quite a few breaks in life. I like to do the same for others. But, that doesn’t typically pertain to the health and welfare of the people I love or my pets/animals in my life. That’s where the whys, ifs, and reasoning come in. Just because it worked for someone doesn’t mean it will work or be the right thing for me and mine. 

You seem to be a very smart and wize man. I do value yours and latestarters opinions, and experiences a whole lot. Just as I do with the many people I’ve had the privilege of meeting in here. I typically like long and winded answers and replies. Maybe because I’m long winded myself. I find wordy posts and comments typically are more thought out, well worked, and thorough so I can understand them and figure out for myself if and why they may or may not pertain to me. Thank you @greybeard.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> @Sheepshape thank you, i will be looking for that today. The medical cannabis is grown  near us, it can be perscribed by certian  dr. But you have to go thru so much to get it and right now  and the costs are astronomical.  My dr. Belives our state (Florida)  will be  moving along with our other states  once they realize  the tax revenues  they will receive .....hopefully  that will happen soon. Thank you for the information


I’m hoping for the same thing to happen in Wisc as well. We finally got rid of our governor, who is viamently opposed to medical marijuana for any reason. He’s also an outright idiot, in my opinion. I sure hope you can find some relief from CBD or Hemp oil. I sure did.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 16, 2018)

Carla D said:


> You seem to be a very smart and wize man.


'Wizened' is a very accurate & descriptive word  for me nowadays...........


----------



## Bruce (Nov 16, 2018)

greybeard said:


> I still push beets and brussels sprouts out of the way. (I push the nasty brussels sprouts clean out the window)


Some think that ANY brussel sprout is nasty.  You can shove yours onto my plate.



Carla D said:


> I’ve never heard of goat kefir. I’ll have to look that up.


There is a "local" goat dairy that sells kefir at the health food store. Plain and (since this is Vermont) Maple. The maple is good, haven't tried the plain. Don't buy it too often. They probably don't have it now, I think they dry their goats off for breeding.



Sheepshape said:


> Make sure that it has at least 10% CBD.


Except that since there is ZERO oversight, control, regulation, whatever, you don't know that what they claim is in their product is actually there. Consumer Reports found a lot of that in their examination of CBD products.



Carla D said:


> I’d prefer to take people and their words and actions for face value. That may be dumb on my part.


Me too, been screwed by it any number of times.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 16, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> cheetos are a rather expensive snack for the goats... simple animal crackers (cookies) are pretty popular and you get a big bag of them for cheap.



Sez the guy who gives his goats Fruit Loops and Captain Crunch......


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Sez the guy who gives his goats Fruit Loops and Captain Crunch......


Fruit Loops and Captain Crunch, oh my. I didn’t know goats had a sweet tooth.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

Rammy said:


> I found this online. You probably might of already seen it so if you have, nevermind. _
> 
> 
> https://www.wikihow.com/Care-for-Baby-Goats


I like that site. It did tell me that I’m not bottle feeding my enough. They suggest 33oz two times a day. I’m only giving them 20oz twice a day.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> I must be the mean goat mommy....sliced carrots, grapes and un sweetened store brand cherrios..... my poor goats,


Do you think my babies might like sliced carrots and grapes? Or, are they too young for snacks period?


----------



## Bruce (Nov 16, 2018)

I would think that treats would be kept to a minimum and not always at the same time so they don't charge you at "snack time". 

Says the guy who gives his chickens BOSS every morning when the barn is opened up and scratch every night when they need to be back behind the gates.  The alpacas get maintenance pellets with sweet feed mixed in at the same times. BUT the afternoon scratch is a 'good' thing since they really want it and if I need them to be in the back, even at other times, I can call them in with it ... mostly.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> I don't  think i would try that yet till you get them eating goat feed first, ....it would be like serving desert before dinner....., just my opinion......may create yourself a problem if you do,  especially  if they love it like mine do....but everything in moderation, two carrots are cut up thinly and six goats get a piece one at a time, its our "lets wait our turn time " hardly ever works out the way i would like it to ...but it is fun !  Also it's  my Alpha time , with them,... just a little reminder that she who holds the food , sets the rules.


I think tonight I will strictly put out there medicated meat goat pellets. They used to eat those really well. I can give thecalf manna to my rabbits and DH baby pigs.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

Bruce said:


> I would think that treats would be kept to a minimum and not always at the same time so they don't charge you at "snack time".
> 
> Says the guy who gives his chickens BOSS every morning when the barn is opened up and scratch every night when they need to be back behind the gates.  The alpacas get maintenance pellets with sweet feed mixed in at the same times. BUT the afternoon scratch is a 'good' thing since they really want it and if I need them to be in the back, even at other times, I can call them in with it ... mostly.


So far we haven’t been giving treats on a daily basis. They typically get them now if they need a “pick me up”. Like surgery, when they get injected with three different meds. Rarely are they given snacks now because my daughter is present and could reach the treats.she can’t now that I’ve moved them up into a cabinet.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

It’s been a really nice day today. It 27 degrees when I went to the farm this morning, no breeze, and none of the waters in the barn were frozen. That’s the sign of a good day in November in Wisconsin. Even the water bottles that I forget to take out of the were not frozen. I was pretty sure we were in for a really cold overnight. No clouds last night, bright stars and no wind.


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 16, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Sez the guy who gives his goats Fruit Loops and Captain Crunch......



It's NOT an everyday occurrence and only when I think they need a "boost" like real cold, or inclement weather, or I need some goatie closeness 



Carla D said:


> Fruit Loops and Captain Crunch, oh my. I didn’t know goats had a sweet tooth.



Many feeds, generally the ones that are actual grain rather than pellets, are "sweet feeds" and have molasses added. I don't use the sweet feeds (anymore). I use a large bowl and mix the no name fruit loops and cheerios from wally world together about 50/50. The goats will follow me anywhere when they see I have that bowl in my hands, even if there's nothing in it. I used to use it to "train" them to come to me and follow where I needed them to go. If they don't know I have the bowl or are scattered, I call out "GOAT, GOAT, GOAT" and they come galloping  When I first got them, this is how I got them back in their night pen.


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Nov 16, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> It's NOT an everyday occurrence and only when I think they need a "boost" like real cold, or inclement weather, or I need some goatie closeness
> 
> 
> 
> ...


                                                                                                                          GOAT,  GOAT , GOAT ....  i can hear you ....and you wonder why so many people follow you , lol


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Carla that is so funny about the water not being frozen...i am in florida and brought them warm water this morning....we were cold at 38 degrees, lol


I have to admit this to you. But 38 degrees is cold no matter where you live. It’s taken a long time for me appreciate the smaller things about winter. 27 degrees in November and only having to haul water to outdoors animals is something to totally appreciate. It’s not uncommon to see 15 to -15 degrees this time of year. Today was quite refreshing.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 16, 2018)

I lived in Michigan for several years and didn't mind the cold then but then I spent some time on Antarctica and I learned what cold really was.  I will still gripe about it though.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

"Latestarter, post:  I call out "GOAT, GOAT, GOAT" and they come galloping  


My FIL started something one day. He likes to tease, spoil, appreciate all of our animals. One day I caught him saying “num num, num num.” and they all raced to him for a scratch on their heads. It’s kinda stuck. I know there guys are going to get darn big, especially the Saanen. But I can’t imagine not having fun and affection for them when they are big. “Num num. Num num.”


----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> I lived in Michigan for several years and didn't mind the cold then but then I spent some time on Antarctica and I learned what cold really was.  I will still gripe about it though.


I don’t think very many people can say they’ve been to Antarctica much less say they’ve spent time there. That’s quite interesting that you’ve been there.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 16, 2018)

Carla - the agency I worked for in Charleston for the last 20 years before I retired managed the Air Traffic Control functions in Antarctica for the National Science Foundation at McMurdo (the U.S base).  All the controllers and techs used to spend all summer (they called it The Season) there.  Most of the ATC portion of that job is now done via satellite and is done from Charleston, SC.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 16, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> GOAT,  GOAT , GOAT ....  i can hear you ....and you wonder why so many people follow you , lol


Um, did you just call us all goats??


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Nov 16, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Um, did you just call us all goats??


IF THE HOOF FITS......


----------



## Bruce (Nov 16, 2018)




----------



## Carla D (Nov 16, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> Carla - the agency I worked for in Charleston for the last 20 years before I retired managed the Air Traffic Control functions in Antarctica for the National Science Foundation at McMurdo (the U.S base).  All the controllers and techs used to spend all summer (they called it The Season) there.  Most of the ATC portion of that job is now done via satellite and is done from Charleston, SC.


Cool.


----------



## Sheepshape (Nov 17, 2018)

Well, my sheep....no goats at present come when I clap my hands. I don't know how they (and I) have learnt this, but for me....'clap, clap,clap', and "Girlies" 'C'mon Girlies" and they are all down. It may sound silly, may look stupid, but it works every time.

Mike CHS you have experienced REAL cold.....how many fingers and toes do you still have? Over here we whinge and whine about anything which is out of the 50-75 degree range....it's a bit of a national preoccupation. However, our cold usually is accompanied by a bone-chilling damp....makes it seem so much harder to bear.

Carla, back to your mum and kids....are they still doing well? They usually strengthen up so quickly after a couple of days.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 17, 2018)

Sheepshape said:


> Well, my sheep....no goats at present come when I clap my hands. I don't know how they (and I) have learnt this, but for me....'clap, clap,clap', and "Girlies" 'C'mon Girlies" and they are all down. It may sound silly, may look stupid, but it works every time.
> 
> Mike CHS you have experienced REAL cold.....how many fingers and toes do you still have? Over here we whinge and whine about anything which is out of the 50-75 degree range....it's a bit of a national preoccupation. However, our cold usually is accompanied by a bone-chilling damp....makes it seem so much harder to bear.
> 
> Carla, back to your mum and kids....are they still doing well? They usually strengthen up so quickly after a couple of days.



They all appear to be doing really well. They are playing, climbing, fighting for attention and sparring like nothing ever happened to them. And as long as I wait for them to finish their bottles befor I give them an injection they are all pretty eager to finish their bottles. I’m going to give them a baby aspirin twice a day for a few more days. Just to be sure they stay relatively comfortable enough to eat and drink like they should be doing.

We frequently have blustery cold days through the winter, but unless the temp hovers between 30-40 degrees we don’t usually have much for cold and damp days. The most likelihood of being cold and wet is if we are out and playing in large heavy snow and get out winter wear/clothing wet. Then it’s bone chilling for sure.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 19, 2018)

Hello @B&B Happy goats,
The little guys are doing amazingly well. They are quite frisky lately. They are prancing around, head butting, pushing me behind my knee for attention, and stealing my gloves out of my winter jacket. That how good they are doing. I struggled so hard yesterday to give them their last antibiotic. They wouldn’t hold still, I couldn’t distract them and neither my husband or my daughter would help me give the. I poked Tanner 5-6 times and still wasn’t able to give him injection. Needless to say I was so really POd that I left the barn in tears. I did however talk my husband into helping me give them their antibiotic and Dectomax. I also had to clean up two goat horn sites. That was a wasted effort. The dressings didn’t stay on for either of them any longer that three minutes.

This evening I got a phone call from the vets office of the guy who performed their surgeries. I shouldn’t have been surprised, but I was. I told him they were doing really well, like nothing ever happened. I did remember to ask about the procedure he used. It was a scoop and burn technique. I want to do a little research on that procedure. I’d like to know what that entailed, and about recovery, etc. I didn’t tell him that I was working with another vet. I don’t want to set that bridge a blazin since he’s the one who will be doing any pig vetting we may need done. I suppose there could be a time when my new vet won’t be able to come out or know what to do. It would be nice to be able to call him if that situation ever comes up. He is a really good vet. But, for some reason he wasn’t very responsive to my dosage questions.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 19, 2018)

Yeah, you know they are doing better when you can't catch them or get them to hold still long enough to give them their medicine. Glad that they feel better!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 19, 2018)

It was a fun night with kids, my kid, and myself tonight. My daughter came with this time. She hasn’t been for this last week. It’s either been too cold to have her out there even bundled up, or she’s been wanting to go home before I get the second goat fed. For some reason she doesn’t want to feed any of them including her Jack Frost. That’s been going on since they were brought home after their surgery. Tonight was a different kind of night. A fun one.

For the life of me I couldn’t pick just one goat to be my absolute favorite. This is why:
Jack- he’s so darn soft, patient with his girl, Abigail, he’s a bit on the mellow side as well.
Tanner- he’s a lovey little guy. He loves having his cheeks pet, he will also get really close to me when I’m giving him his bottle and lean right into me.
Billy- he’s just a squirrelly little devil. A darn dashing little dickens. He’s my idea of the perfect goat. He’s super feisty.
Rusty- a truly gentle, loving, and snuggly little guy. I found out he’s a thief tonight.  For the last several days I keep finding my gloves on the ground in their area. I busted him tonight. He just shoves his nose in my pocket and pulls them out. Then he tried taking Abigails mittens off of her hand. He waits his turn to get his bottle. If I absolutely had to choose my favorite goat, Rusty would be at the top of my list.
Butch- he’s a gentleman. He also waits his turn to be fed. He has been known to butt me behind my knee to get my attention. When he’s drinking his bottle he leans right into me and wants to be held and snuggled.
Elvis- this little goat would also be at the very top of my list as well. He’s constantly trying to get my attention. He gently uses his paw and puts it either on my hand or my leg. Whichever he can get closest to. His big joy in life is getting attention, even more than his bottles. He has the sweetest little doe-eyes. When I’m busy feeding someone else he’s rubbing his little head on my leg.
Junior- he’s a rascal.when he wants attention he’s going to get it. He’s a huge head butter. He used to gently paw at me when I was feeding someone else and not giving him attention. He started that at about two weeks of age. I cannot pick him up to feed him without getting a head to my chest. He is constantly trying to help his brothers drink their bottles. He is a very persistent sort of guy.
Ringo- he’s a whole lot like Junior. He won’t take a breath until he’s finished his bottle completely. He also loves running and chasing my little girl. I think Abigail is his favorite human.

Is it possible to have eight favorites? I sure hope so. Then there is Tiger. He is always in with the goats. He will return head butts, he will snuggle with the goats. I’ve even found him sleeping with them. Tonight he was aging his tail against the ground and one of his little friends would chase it back and forth. Tiger adores these goats. 
 This is Tiger. The goats are a serious attention getter of his. This is Jack. He’s the only one who has small open areas where his horns used to be. He is so super soft. This is Elvis. He’s trying very hard to get my attention. He’s going to be an amazing goat when he’s a bigger.
 This is my glove thief. Rusty Nails. I can’t express how much I love this guy.   And  shows how crazy my little guys are for their grass hay. They were attacking it like they’ve not any for years. They don’t usually go this crazy. I couldn’t of started my goat experience with a greater group of little guys. I do love them so much. I did have a couple of short videos that I wanted to share. But I can’t for the life of me figure out how to attach videos.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 19, 2018)

those are some nice pictures that shows they are excited.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 19, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> those are some nice pictures that shows they are excited.


They sure are excited. I’m so relieved that they are doing so much better. Now my biggest concern is putting some weight on them. After giving so many injections I now know how little they have for reserves. Their muscles are very hard to find for IM injections and there is very little skin that is loose enough for the SQ injections. Two of them were almost impossible to grab enough to tent.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Nov 20, 2018)

Carla D said:


> there is very little skin that is loose enough for the SQ injections. Two of them were almost impossible to grab enough to tent.


That sounds like dehydration...do they drink water?


----------



## Carla D (Nov 20, 2018)

frustratedearthmother said:


> That sounds like dehydration...do they drink water?


I was thinking dehydration too. They get fresh water twice a day. I’ve tried different temps, with/without apple cider vinegar. I don’t think they are drinking any of their water. I don’t know what else to try. I even though about putting a little sugar or karo syrup in thei water. But, I don’t think that’s a very good option. Do you have any ideas on how I can get them to drink water?


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 20, 2018)

You can give them water from a bottle too if you think they are dehydrated.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 20, 2018)

Rammy said:


> I thought dehydration ment you could pull a lot of skin up. I know when my cat was having problems with his liver and was dehydrated, I could pull up a ton of skin to give subq fluids. I hope thats not the case with your goats.


Me too.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 20, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> You can give them water from a bottle too if you think they are dehydrated.


But not to give them an entire bottle, right? I don’t want to through them into hypervolemic shock.

Do you think there may be a little something I can flavor their water with? Crushed mint leaves, molasses, there has to be something I can use. I have already tried apple cider vinegar.

One more question. What would you use to help them gain some weight, increase their muscle mass, and all around wellbeing? I know this isn’t an overnight process. I just don’t feel that I’ve added or changed anything in their diet to help them.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 20, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Mine have three clean buckets of water, one is warm water with a little B 12.   ...one has regular water and the third has a ounce of red cell mixed with the water in a five gallon bucket..... but that's  just for mine as they all choose which  to drink out of, and being a clean freak, the buckets get cleaned e/o day....but this is just what i do, not a recommendation  for you, .... i watch to see who drinks what... due to their own needs


The putting out three different waters is a pretty genius idea.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 20, 2018)

I think you are worrying needlessly.
They look good, growing like normal kids.
When on the bottle often kids don't go to water because they are hydrated.
If you are giving 2 bottles a day you could try a half bottle of water in afternoon.

I wouldn't be adding anything to the water.

As far as shots, hard to tent on any kid IMO. I like the shoulder area for SQ and go down not up. Far easier.

They were just treated for a bunch of stuff and that is great. Let them eat and grow.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 20, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> I think you are worrying needlessly.
> They look good, growing like normal kids.
> When on the bottle often kids don't go to water because they are hydrated.
> If you are giving 2 bottles a day you could try a half bottle of water in afternoon.
> ...


I sure hope you’re right about me worrying about nothing. I think asking my new vet that question along with another one I’ve been thinking about is a great idea. You are so darned practical.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 20, 2018)

Make your own electrolyte solution. 1 table spoon salt, 5 tablespoons sugar to a quart of water.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 21, 2018)

Carla D said:


> But I can’t for the life of me figure out how to attach videos.


You need to upload them to YouTube then link here.



Carla D said:


> You are so darned practical.


She's had FAR too many goats not to be practical!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 21, 2018)

I went out and bought a new bathroom scale this morning so I could get an accurate weight on the boys.



 

 Have yet to find a site that can give me a rough estimate on what 8 week old Alpines and Saanen should weigh. I may be totally off base with my guess. But I’m thinking they should be close to 30 pounds.

I also cleaned all of the bedding I had in their house and entire area. I figured I better do that to keep them from getting reinfected. Our neighbor at the farm harvested his corn yesterday. I did put a mess of corn husks and stalks in there for bedding. They have been going to town eating them. Can anyone tell me if the husks and stalk are ok for them to be eating?

My daughter even helped me feed the goats today. The first time since their surgery that she has wanted to feed them. And my husband even helped me clean all of the hay/straw bedding out of the area. He offered to help.

I did send my vet the goats weights. I’m curious to know if she thinks they are underweight or not.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 21, 2018)

That will be interesting to know.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 21, 2018)

Bruce said:


> That will be interesting to know.


My vet just got back to me and she thinks they are actually at a pretty good weight. They should be around 20#. They are. Only three are a bit under that. So I have one less thing to worry about. Hallelujah.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 21, 2018)

For what it's worth, our sheep will go after corn husks like it's candy.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Nov 21, 2018)

They are very small 
Our mini's are heavier at that age.

I have mentioned, several times that you want them to gain at least 10-15# a month.

I would have to disagree with your vet. Alpines and Saanans are massive animals. These kids are small.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 21, 2018)

Goat Whisperer said:


> They are very small
> Our mini's are heavier at that age.
> 
> I have mentioned, several times that you want them to gain at least 10-15# a month.
> ...



If they were to gain 10# a month they should be roughly 25-27#. Right?
But I can see that if they gained 15# a month they would most definitely be at minimum 10# light.

They are 15-18 pounds too light.

I sure wish I could get a definitive weight range, hopefully a 5# range. Now I’m really worried. That is a whole lot of weight to be under. They eat at least 6 cups of my pellet mix. And at least 1/7-1/5 of a hay bale a day. It takes about a week to go through one farm grown grass hay bale. And then that is supplemented with Timothy and alfalfa/meadow mix. And two 20oz bottles of milkreplacer. That seems like it should be adequate, so it’s not.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Nov 21, 2018)

If they were 8# kids, and gained 10# a month, the minimum weight you’d want them to be is 28#. Honestly, they should be gaining more than that, since they are Saanans and Alpines. 

Not picking on you, just trying to be honest. 

Are they finishing the bottles?


----------



## Carla D (Nov 21, 2018)

Goat Whisperer said:


> If they were 8# kids, and gained 10# a month, the minimum weight you’d want them to be is 28#. Honestly, they should be gaining more than that, since they are Saanans and Alpines.
> 
> Not picking on you, just trying to be honest.
> 
> Are they finishing the bottles?


Yes they all usually finish them all. Sometimes one or two will leave 2-4 ounces though. I usually go back and give them a chance to finish them after the rest have been fed.

I appreciate the honesty. This seems to be the only place I can get good information.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Nov 21, 2018)

I’m still looking through our charts. I found this, it’s some of our 2016 kids. 

The first row (Knuckles, Wren, & Cupcake) are miniature Lamanchas. 

Charlotte and Jane are standard Lamanchas. 

Emmy & Saffy are miniature Nubians

Bingo is a miniature Lamancha 

Rain and Belle are Nigerian dwarfs. 


We certainly don’t have large goats by any means, but this can give you and idea.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 21, 2018)

Goat Whisperer said:


> View attachment 54966 I’m still looking through our charts. I found this, it’s some of our 2016 kids.
> 
> The first row (Knuckles, Wren, & Cupcake) are miniature Lamanchas.
> 
> ...



Thank you. This will help me tremendously.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 22, 2018)

Goat Whisperer said:


> View attachment 54966 I’m still looking through our charts. I found this, it’s some of our 2016 kids.
> 
> The first row (Knuckles, Wren, & Cupcake) are miniature Lamanchas.
> 
> ...


I looked just a little bit for an 'optimum'  growth chart, but not being into goats, I had no idea where to look, but from what little I did look at, there are lots and lots of people looking for a chart like yours.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 22, 2018)

greybeard said:


> I looked just a little bit for an 'optimum'  growth chart, but not being into goats, I had no idea where to look, but from what little I did look at, there are lots and lots of people looking for a chart like yours.


Yes, it is nearly impossible to find anything a definitive chart that was intelligently written. I have only found 1-2 that were made by a farmer and typically they were dwarfs or minis. That gave me minimal information pertaining to medium-large to large goats. Ghost Whisperer did show me one of her personal charts. That does give me a bit better information. Mine would be small if they were minis much less full size breeds. Now I’m going to see if I can find any good ideas about how to supplement their intake so they can start gaining weight. If they got them from where I think they got them they probably picked them up almost immediately after they arrived at the farm. The vet did come out at about the three week mark and said they all looked really healthy and hearty at that point. But maybe their worm load wasn’t too bad at that point. I’m wondering if them having bad worms that young in life if that might not be affecting not only their weight but their overall growth, height, strength, etc. it may not be reversible if that’s the case. I know humans can be that way if struck at an early age with trauma or illness.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 22, 2018)

I found a few references that have shed a little light about the condition and weight of my kids. I’m not quite sure if these are accurate or good guides to follow.

This is what my kids weighed yesterday.




Here’s a couple of charts that tells the average weight in KG of three breeds by their age.
**this says my goats should weigh about 17#. But I’m getting many people saying mine are tiny.

The second one is the average daily weight in grams/day at different age ranges.
**according to this they should be gaining about 0.134# per day.




This describes how to judge condition of your goat(s). With as critical of an eye as I can be I’m figuring my kids are BCS 3 or BCS 4.I am leaning more towards the BCS 4 however. Still pretty poor. Here’s what they looked like about a week ago, before most of them had their bottle.


 




Then I looked at the FAMACHA of many of my kids. Only one picture was good enough to share. The other one is a bit blury and harder to distinguish.



Here’s Jack’s. I’m thinking his may be acceptable.



This is Tanners. I don’t think his is quite as good, but it’s a bit hard to tell. But I’m thinking his may be dangerous.




Are my assessments somewhat close for this is my first time at trying to do these?


----------



## Carla D (Nov 22, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Congratulations  on the POW with your piglets


Thank you. I’m kinda surprised, I didn’t think those little piggies and afterbirth made a very cute picture. But, I found it really interesting the two big pigs shown would result in such wide assortment of colors.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 22, 2018)

@Goat Whisperer You are so kind and gracious, so helpful to Carla D who is trying so hard to learn what is best for her goats. You and SBC and many others, are what makes BYH such a great place.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 23, 2018)

Baymule said:


> @Goat Whisperer You are so kind and gracious, so helpful to Carla D who is trying so hard to learn what is best for her goats. You and SBC and many others, are what makes BYH such a great place.


You are pretty darn special too @Baymule .


----------



## Carla D (Nov 23, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Hello carla, i found a company called brighton hemp oil, Harvard University  did a study with their oil, with great results, apparently the grand mother was selling it and when she passed on the son took it from a small business and went on the tv show "shark tank" and they all invested in the company, also one of the drs. On the tv program "the drs." Is also promoting its benefits. ...i am getting three bottls paid for and two free for $159.00 they also have the capsuls ( orderd some) and a topical pain reliver cream....should arrive on the 7th...will let you know how it works, but the Harvard study was impressive..if it helps as much as they claim, i should be able to get off of these meds. That throw me into termoil when i run out...and i hate being chemicaly dependent to something that is goverment regulated. Thank you for your impute  on the subject, will let you know if its a bust or a go !


Oh my gosh! I just found a 2oz bottle on amazon.com that has a 2oz bottle for less than $25. I only buy cheap ones as long as I can find some that work for me at that price point. That’s cool!


----------



## Baymule (Nov 23, 2018)

Carla D said:


> You are pretty darn special too @Baymule .


Maybe so, but I don't know anything about goats!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 24, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Will let you know how it goes, i do like the Harvard  study spect,stress, ptsd, sleep, reduction in mental  decline,  antioxident, pain reliver,anti inflemtory.  Possable weight reduction sleep  .and the claim goes on....we shall see if its real or snake oil, lol


Please do. Believe it or not I have everyone of those issues you mentioned.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 24, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> I am so sorry about the spelling, having vision problems and am puttin off the procedure on other eye, can't  see for beans, so i hunt and peck and pray for the best on my small tablet with the cracked screen, lol


I had you pegged as a person younger than me. I have to keep reminding myself I’m middle aged though. That must come with age.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 24, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Welcome to my world...thats  why i am trying this product, it covered more of what i was looking for in the Harvard study....and every one of my issues...its the panic and anxietie episodes that keep me at  home. I can not be in crowds period....not that i mind being home with our animals, i would rather be with them than anywhere else. Have a happy saturday Carla


I can understand the anxiety and panic keeping you home. I’m on SSDI because of my depression, anxiety, and pain. We seem to have a little bit in common. It’s been really nice meeting new people and getting great information from the people in here. They are awesome. But, I’m really appreciating interacting with you. We seem to have a few things in common and can understand many things that some people wouldn’t understand. You said 66 years young. I love that answer. I’m 46 years young. I say that because while I still consider 46 being young. While my body says I’m an old broken down woman my spirit and thoughts in life , and that I can’t remember I’m not 30-35 years old anymore I do feel young at heart. Maybe old age is setting in and that why I can’t remember I’m not as young as I think I am. Thank you for sharing these things with me. I’m going to look up that brand read about it and the research information. I’m on way too many medications. If this hemp oil can relieve many of my symptoms it is definitely something worth looking into and trying. For that information information you gave me last night, it has me very intrigued.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 24, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> CARLA... age is only a state of mind....inside your head, my head...we think we are in our thirties. ...although the clock says i am twenty years  ahead of you...we are both here at the same time and at the same place, sharing the same interests. ..the "trick" is to keep moving, keep doing, keep thinking..." young thirty something  you".....Work past , through  and with your aches and pains...the mind is a very powerful thing, when you think positive, believe positive and live positive...it pushes  the negative  away. ...I choose to be happy, ... i understand  depression, have been there...its  a ugly pace to be,  .... move, get up and get those endorphins  in the brain moving, going ..push the junk away...choose to enjoy life...... my last "official job" was picking up deceased bodies....the last one i picked up was on a sixty pound gurney,  with a hundred and seventy lb. Man on it, i had to stand the gurney in a upright position to get him out of the room...the locking  part let loose and hit me from the shoulder ,arm and dropped me to my knees with all that weight ontop of me, (talk about dead weight) it  took the left side of my body out along with my lower back. The reason i told you this story is because i do understand daily pain, i do understand that life can change in a moment...but he is dead...and although i am not the same person i was when i walked into his home....i am still alive. I choose to put my daily pain on the back burner and move through  it, work around it and love my life , my animals and my daily chores that keep me moving....don't  let depression  win...I am here for you anytime, if you want to talk here that's  fine. If you want to talk privately  you can  send me a message...if you can get past the depression, the rest is easy...   choose to be happy, get off as many meds that you can (under dr. Supervision )  and move, keep moving  and choose to enjoy.....now if you have been able to put up with me thus far, lol....we can talk anxiety,  panic attacks and PTSD...they each have a diffrent story... truly laughter is the best medicine


I gotta make a small tweak to your last few lines. The only way to get keep going through all of the issues we have is a positive attitude, laughter, and “go with the flow” attitude. There are always going to be days less positive or more difficult to work through them. But the laughter, positive attitude, and “go with the flow” we can get through the worst of things. Take care and enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Are you saying you worked in a mortuary or with a mortition? Interesting. That is tough work.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 24, 2018)

No, you can’t fix stupid. I have such little tolerance for stupid people. But women doing or saying unbelievably stupid things makes my blood boil. Yes, I’m a middle aged woman. But even into my teens stupid women or girls ticked me to the Nth degree. I’ve always been pretty practical, used good common sense, and thought things through. So when a whoa man does something stupid it makes all women look stupid to many people. Women have had a poor stereotype of being foolish, dim witted, and unable. I’ve tried to prove people that’s wrong, at least in my case. So when I see stupid in women I get riled up. Sorry. May be a bit too much.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 24, 2018)

Women can be so stupid. We owned a furniture store and it convinced me even further that women can be unbelievably STUPID. 

Woman shopping for a mattress, laying on them and finally finding the one that was just right.

 Woman: Does this come in another color? (Mattress covers come in a variety of colors and fabrics)

Me: No, that is the only color this mattress comes in.

Woman: (in an ugly tone) Then I don't want it.

Me: (getting fed up with Miss Stupid) Aren't you going to put a mattress cover on it, sheets, a bedspread and sleep in the dark with your eyes closed?

Woman: (getting pissy because I just told her how stupid she is) Well, I'd know it was under there!

Me: (Bingo! Now I'm really going to piss her off) Really? (in a deep tone of fake concern) What color is the mattress you have now?

Woman: (stammering) I-I-I don't know. (she storms out)

This played out over and over. I turned it into a game. Some women realized how silly they were and bought the mattress set that they liked, even though they didn't like the pink, or white or blue or whatever color the fabric was on it. 

Haha, I sold pink mattresses to men, and they hated the pink color, but saw the reasoning in sheets, covers and sleeping in the dark with their eyes closed.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 24, 2018)

That got me laughing which is always a good thing.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 25, 2018)

I had the vet out to the farm again tonight. That’s two nights in a row. Tonight two of my goats decided to spray blood EVERYWHERE. The first one was Rusty Nails. He must have bumped his head or head butted another goat. That took me almost thirty minutes to get his bleeding under control and then wrapped up. I’ve been told by a couple of people if a goat doesn’t want to eat or drink anything, there is no way to get them to. Just as we got his bleeding stopped and dressed, the next one started.

Billy hit something pretty major. It took over two hours to get him to stop bleeding. My husband held him immobilized and then held a pressure dressing on his head. My husband knows really well on how to use pressure to stop the bleeding. Billy ultimately bled through three well folded wash cloths that were placed on top of each other. We couldn’t get it to stop. After twenty minutes of trying to slow down and stop the bleeding we had to call the vet. I had to make three separate phone calls to him. I explicitly explained that we were not able to stop the bleeding after 40 minutes of good pressure would NOT stop this bleeding. He was soaking through his pressure dressing just about as quickly as we could get it covered. This wasn’t a thick steady stream of blood. This was very red, well oxygenated blood and it wasn’t oozing, the blood was shooting out in a very fast and steady pace. It wasnt a pulsating bleeder at all. Steady stream all of the way. 

I called the vet and told him about what was going on. He told me to throw a bunch of flour on the bleed, place gauze, and dress it. Before I hung up I very insistently told him that wouldn’t do anything. It didn’t either. That’s where the third call to him was made. I insisted that it is definatly needing vet care. It was bleeding way too fast for the flour to clot the bleeder. By this point jimand I fought frantically to control the bleeding. We waited an addition twenty minutes before he showed up at the farm. He gasped and said holy shi*. There was blood everywhere. He struggled as well to get it to stop bleeding.

I’m so agitated right now at the fact that I can’t get any decent help from the local vets. They either won’t come out to the farm without throwing a tantrum, don’t give the important information such as dose, route, and frequency, or they can’t be reached. I’m almost to the point of giving my goats away because I can’t find a vet who will help me as I need it.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Nov 25, 2018)

Wow.... so sorry that happened and glad you finally got some help.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 25, 2018)

You have had a trial by fire. And yet, the fire is still burning out of control. You are doing your best and things just keep going wrong. It is time to take a step back and take a fresh look at things. If you need to cut back, do so. 

I do think that you are close to things getting better. Their heads will heal up, they will be weaned off the bottle in a couple of weeks. When you are not going from crisis to crisis, you will be able to think clearer. At that time, it might be wise to either sell or take to slaughter some or most of them. keep a couple for pets. 

I am truly sorry that you have had such a hard time with these guys. I know that you are giving it your all. You are here, asking questions and asking for advice. You have the desire to learn and I commend you for that.


----------



## greybeard (Nov 25, 2018)

When it rains, sometimes it just keeps pouring.

As Larry McMurtry said
"It's a fine world, though rich in hardships at times.”


----------



## Carla D (Nov 26, 2018)

Yes, I have been doing some heavy thinking about my goat situation. I am stressed and frequently overwhelmed.i am giving some very real consideration about down sizing. So much thought that I have also figured out the three that I have every intention keeping. But, things are a bit too intense to make such a big knee jerk decision.

I am also inclined to believe that thinks can’t really get much worse either. There are a lot of things to figure out yet. Are we going to put a couple down as soon as possible? I need to keep in mind they have antibiotics in their system. Nothing productive can be done with them until the withdrawal time frame. I can’t risk a stupid person buying one then killing him for immediate human consumption. I don’t want one of these little guys being passed off onto several different people and being mistreated. I am going to be weaning them very shortly. In the meantime my husband and I are going to make a bucket some they all can nurse at the same time and discover their water. I really don’t think any of the goat are drinking it. If there is any water consumed in the goat area it is being consumed by our barn cats. But having this bucket will greatly reduce the amount of time I’ve been spending with the goats. I may gain 2-3 hours each day. That’s time I can catch up on things I’ve been neglecting.

I have also come to the conclusion that the calf manna NEEDS to go. I’ve been reminded they are wethers and need a balanced diet to prevent a particular tough condition from happening. The vet that was out yesterday had mentioned the local feed store has pellets almost identical to Purinas goat grower. They are significantly cheaper than the purina logo. Only about $8.00 for a 50 pound bag in place of the $25+ 50 pound bag of purina witch is between $15-20 if I remember correctly. He suggested I use only that pellet and hay to feed them. Very similar to what I’m getting advice on in here. Buy using a multiple nipple bucket system, weaning them as soon as feasible, ditching the calf manna and possibly the alfalfa pellets will save me a nice chunk of time daily and significantly reduce my monthly feed bill will likely free up time, critical thinking time, reduce stress and expenses. I can then do some much needed research about medical conditions, potential treatments, and possibly reduce my overwhelming sense of panic. It would reduce my stress if I knew a bit more than I do. I can’t find a good mentor for my goat experience and I think I’m annoying the local vets in my area. They are vets, not mentors. While I could gain a huge wealth of information from them when a situation arises.

There is also the facts that we don’t live on our little farm. That’s burning a whole boatload of gasoline and driving time. We also don’t have any WiFi or cellular service on the farm. So in order to call the vet or seek advice we need to hop in a vehicle and drive around or back home to do those things. That’s gas, wear and tear on vehicles, time, added stress and aggravation. Much less productive use of and means of doing daily tasks.

We have sunk a lot of time, money, effort into these little guys at this point. It might be more adventitious to wait out this storm a little bit longer. After all they are now dehorned, castrated, gaining weight, feeling much better also. With these few small changes my thoughts on getting rid of or doing something with them like eating them I may be able to shake the rain off, enjoy more time with them. They did have a very soothing and calming effect on me the first 3-4 weeks. If I get them past this little hump things will likely change greatly. They will be outside perminantly, not drinking formula, they will be able to graze a little, have room to stretch their legs and burn off steam. I may be at a better place to care for them, my family and myself. Sometimes change of scenery and a little time fixes things on their own. I will definitely not be getting anymore goats. Ultimately get the goat count to three goats and maintain that count.

I don’t wish to rush into any rash decisions which would likely lead to heartache or regret. Things are “starting to slow down” just a little. Each issue is getting less severe at this point. Another month of this is needed in order to have any reasonable options where they are concerned. Getting them off the formula and outside might be the cure all/most of. I’ve been panicking lately and floundering to find answers. I do know a bit more now than I did prior to getting the goats. Experience, that I need to think things through a bit better in my life as a whole, many laughs. Lots of stress, but no major meltdown or tears shed at this  point. Lots and lots to think about. But I cannot make any major/drastic decisions this week. Maybe next week or a few down the road. I guess I rambled and worked out a couple thoughts with this message.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 26, 2018)

You are getting a good grip on reality. Hang in there it will get better.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 26, 2018)

Now is the time for me to take a big breath of fresh air. Regroup myself. Then figure out what the next step is going to be.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Nov 26, 2018)

Miss @Carla D,

I can't offer any advice raising farm animals, as that is something I have never done in all of my 66+ years.  But maybe you might benefit from reading one or more books about raising goats.  I have a book titled _Natural Goat Care_ which I have yet to read.  I got it along with a couple of other books from acresusa.com.  Perhaps others can recommend other books as well.  I strongly suspect that your feeling of being overwhelmed is partly caused by feeling of a lack of knowledge.  Learn as much as you can, both from the folks on BYH and from good books on raising farm animals, and I bet that feeling of being overwhelmed will diminish.  I have heard it said that a person's career goes through several phases: (1) panic -- "Oh, dear God, I don't know what I am doing!", (2) challenge -- "I can learn this!", (3) competence -- "I know this stuff", (4) boredom -- "I am so tired of the same old thing, I need something new!".  You are in the panic phase right now.  Gaining some knowledge will help you get to the challenge phase and help reduce the sense of being overwhelmed.

Best wishes on your challenge!

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Carla D (Nov 26, 2018)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> I can't offer any advice raising farm animals, as that is something I have never done in all of my 66+ years.  But maybe you might benefit from reading one or more books about raising goats.  I have a book titled _Natural Goat Care_ which I have yet to read.  I got it along with a couple of other books from acresusa.com.  Perhaps others can recommend other books as well.  I strongly suspect that your feeling of being overwhelmed is partly caused by feeling of a lack of knowledge.  Learn as much as you can, both from the folks on BYH and from good books on raising farm animals, and I bet that feeling of being overwhelmed will diminish.  I have heard it said that a person's career goes through several phases: (1) panic -- "Oh, dear God, I don't know what I am doing!", (2) challenge -- "I can learn this!", (3) competence -- "I know this stuff", (4) boredom -- "I am so tired of the same old thing, I need something new!".  You are in the panic phase right now.  Gaining some knowledge will help you get to the challenge phase and help reduce the sense of being overwhelmed.
> 
> ...



You are very smart *STA*. I think you are onto something. I bet 90-95% of my being over whelmed and panic is the because I do lack the knowledge and experience. I do have a medical background. I figured I’d be able to tread water until I had learned a few things. Being a good nurse doesn’t really have a whole lot of benefit. Goats and people are very different. There is essentially only a few things we have in common with goats. We both breathe and we both can bleed pretty profusely it injured in certain places. Both need food and water to live. Beyond that there is very little in common. 

A couple of good goat books is a very good idea. It’s not that the information isn’t available on the internet. It is. But it’s way too easy to get distracted on the internet. Then because all of the information on the internet isn’t created by the same author. That’s only gives you snippets of information but not in complete logic or sense. A book usually has a more organized and complete thoughts and progression. 

I think you are also correct about me being in the panic stage of a new career. Thank you for your kindness and support.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 26, 2018)

This morning has been a really nice experience. We started out waking up 25 minutes late, but DD did manage to get on the bus. It was such a beautiful morning to go to the farm. There was a silvery look to the ground, a little haze which made trees pop because the buildings were kinda hidden. Very light snow flakes in the air. The sky is a bit on the grey side. But it was like a winter snow globe.

I made a stop to the local feed store while on my way to the farm. I took my vets advice and bought a bag of his recommended feed. I only had about two or three weeks of my goat pellet mixture left. Now was the time for me to buy the feed. I have just enough original feed left to be able to gradually switch the goats to their new feed. I am done buying pellets with the only exception of possibly Goat Treats. The new feed looks so appealing. It is about 85-90% small grains and the rest is very small pellets. I’m assuming that might be the medication, protein, and a bit of filler. I’ll try to take a picture of it when I go to the farm next time. I have three brand new bags of the milk replacer. That’s probably enough for for 3 months or so. For practicality, convenience, and nessecity I don’t plan on buying any more of that as well. I think these two changes alone will be saving me $150-200 each month. That is money we can either use to buy some nice quality grass hay and straw. Or, it’s available if needed elsewhere, or an emergency. That’s a good feeling. 

When I went in to feed the boys there was no new blood scattered around, no goat was bleeding, they were all quite hungry and looked no worse for wear. That is such a nice thing see in the morning. I did some cleaning up from last nights blood bath. I want to organize and rearrange the barn a bit. Last night my husband and I whipped up a very basic goat stand. I need to find a home for that where it’s convenient yet out of the way. I also plan on cleaning up the huge indoor dog kennel and have it all set up and in “ready to use” condition. Tomorrow we are weaning the piglets and sending two of the mommas to pasture. With young goats and piglets abundant on the farm at the moment we need to be prepared for an emergency. A lot of big and exciting things are happening this week and the next few weeks as well on the farm. There is going to be quite a bit of transitioning animals into the next stage of growth. I am excited. 

I did notice one thing while out there this morning. Billy is not Billy the Kid at this time. He’s become Billy the Brawler. That poor little guy. He moons so tough right now. All of that dried blood, flour, stop blood, and a dressing on his head. But, he still gave me a run for the money. Goofy goat.


----------



## Mike CHS (Nov 26, 2018)

I couldn't tell for sure but are you combining some of the old food with some of the new?  I think that's what you were writing but thought I would make sure.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 26, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> I couldn't tell for sure but are you combining some of the old food with some of the new?  I think that's what you were writing but thought I would make sure.


Yes. I’m taking them off of the pellet combination I have been feeding them. They waste the medicated meat goat pellets, and it’s sunk in that the calf manna isn’t the best thing for them at this point. About every two or three meals I’ll decrease the old by a little bit and increase the new feed by a little bit. The new food costs less than half of what I’d been paying to this point. And the vet has recommended it to me twice now.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 26, 2018)

This last weekend was odd, nerve wracking, and busy. But, something completely out of the blue happened Friday evening. A young kid hit a HUGE buck at the end of the farms driveway. It was likely a three year old white tail. The kids car is totaled and the deer did not sustain a fatal injury, just crippling. It was still alive five hours later. The police knew about it but had no intention of coming out to our farm which is five miles from their building. It was after 6:00pm and it wasn’t an emergency. My husband couldn’t bear the thought of him still being alive come Morning. He would have been too. His primary injury was to its hind quarter. It’s leg had been broken in four different spots, and his antlers were busted all over the road. My husband decided to put it out of misery. That was the beginning of a very, very late night. It took us until 4:00am to get him prepped and hanging. It was a COLD and WINDY night to be doing that.neither one of us could see letting it go to waste. We finally had some time to begin processing it today. We had a 20 gallon tote full of meat already off the bone. We are not going to waste any of it. there is meat not fit for human consumption we are chunking it up and portioning it out to freeze and give to the barn cats once or twice a week. So far they have 30# of meat chunks. That was from the damaged hind quarter. This could not have happened at a better time for our family. We have enough pork and venison to last us at least a year. That was such a blessing. So it wasn’t all bad, just absolutely nonstop activity.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 27, 2018)

I'm proud of fresh roadkill and you should be too. LOL A neighbor showed up this spring with a dead doe. A young girl hit the deer and went home to get her Dad to shoot it. Neighbor drove up on the scene and the Dad offered the doe to him, because their freezer was full. Dad asked Neighbor if he knew how to clean it, and he replied, No, but I know someone who does! And he brought her to me.

DH got the tractor and we hung her up. Neighbor said he was going to watch and learn. I laughed and handed him a knife, "Do what I do."

We skinned the doe, quartered her up, put in our ice chest, and sent him home with all the meat except for one backstrap that he insisted on us keeping. 

I am glad that your husband did the right thing and ended the deer's pain. No use in wasting the meat, you did the right thing in slaughtering him. Meat for your freezer. That's a good thing.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 27, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I'm proud of fresh roadkill and you should be too. LOL A neighbor showed up this spring with a dead doe. A young girl hit the deer and went home to get her Dad to shoot it. Neighbor drove up on the scene and the Dad offered the doe to him, because their freezer was full. Dad asked Neighbor if he knew how to clean it, and he replied, No, but I know someone who does! And he brought her to me.
> 
> DH got the tractor and we hung her up. Neighbor said he was going to watch and learn. I laughed and handed him a knife, "Do what I do."
> 
> ...


It sure is a good thing. Our house loves venison. Being as broke as we have been, this provides sense of comfort knowing we won’t starve this winter. I don’t know if I’ve ever had so much venison in our freezer. A really nice feeling.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 28, 2018)

Here are a few videos I wanted to share but never got around to doing so.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 30, 2018)

I packaged up our roadkill last night. I have discovered two MUST HAVES for the hunter, harvester, and meat loving family. The first one is a vacuum sealer. I had no idea how handy that device is. Wow! Even to use when you go to the grocery store and buy humongous amounts of meat. At sams club we can buy ground beef in 10-12# packages. That would be so useful in that situation. The second was a food scale. Many people do have these, but I’ve never owned one. All of my packages of venison are in 1# and 1.5# packages. That is so handy as well. Considering DH is a deer hunter and processes his own meat most of the time, I can’t believe he doesn’t have either of these. Those might be family Christmas presents.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 30, 2018)

I’m going to make a multiple nipple feeder for my goats tonight. I need to find fittings so I can use the Pritchard nipples the boys are used to. I plan on using a huge kitty litter tub to build it. I’m hoping I can use it tonight.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 30, 2018)

_I  love my Food saver!!!_  It is awesome. Hint: sometimes things that you are sealing up have a sharp point or edge. Wrap in saran wrap or put a folded piece of plastic wrap over the sharp point. I buy the bags on a roll every once in awhile just to make sure that I have 'em when I need 'em!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 30, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Loved hearing your daughter giggling,  while playing with the kids....hope the goats don't  get agressive towards her, .... looks like life is going well for you,......you got a freezer full of meat now  and set for winter


I don’t know if we’ve ever been this stocked with food. At least 50# venison, 125# of Brownie, pork, 6 gallons spaghetti sauce, 2 gallons chili. I made 4# of taco meat tonight for supper. I have to thank my parents for teaching me how to cook large.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 30, 2018)

Baymule said:


> _I  love my Food saver!!!_  It is awesome. Hint: sometimes things that you are sealing up have a sharp point or edge. Wrap in saran wrap or put a folded piece of plastic wrap over the sharp point. I buy the bags on a roll every once in awhile just to make sure that I have 'em when I need 'em!


Great tip. Thank you.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 30, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Loved hearing your daughter giggling,  while playing with the kids....hope the goats don't  get agressive towards her, .... looks like life is going well for you,......you got a freezer full of meat now  and set for winter


@B&B Happy goats, they are starting to get a little overwhelming for her at times. Part of that may be because their space is getting tight. I do have to pull Ringo and Junior off her frequently. I think they just love that she’s as high energy as they are. But in a couple of weeks most of them will weigh more than she does.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 30, 2018)

We have  2 year old grand daughter that absolutely adores the sheep. Last spring, she had learned to do the "fist bump." So she ran through the sheep lot fist bumping them, scared them to death. They ran, she ran, I ran, I caught her and dragged her back. LOL A wether sized her up and butted her, knocked her down. She just got up and went after them again. She loves the sheep, but I have to watch that she doesn't get hurt.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 30, 2018)

We have  2 year old grand daughter that absolutely adores the sheep. Last spring, she had learned to do the "fist bump." So she ran through the sheep lot fist bumping them, scared them to death. They ran, she ran, I ran, I caught her and dragged her back. LOL A wether sized her up and butted her, knocked her down. She just got up and went after them again. She loves the sheep, but I have to watch that she doesn't get hurt.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 30, 2018)

Baymule said:


> We have  2 year old grand daughter that absolutely adores the sheep. Last spring, she had learned to do the "fist bump." So she ran through the sheep lot fist bumping them, scared them to death. They ran, she ran, I ran, I caught her and dragged her back. LOL A wether sized her up and butted her, knocked her down. She just got up and went after them again. She loves the sheep, but I have to watch that she doesn't get hurt.


That is a funny image you painted. Abigail plays tag with our little piggies. They turn around and look at her like they are trying to tell her to tag her own butt.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 30, 2018)

Baymule said:


> We have  2 year old grand daughter that absolutely adores the sheep. Last spring, she had learned to do the "fist bump." So she ran through the sheep lot fist bumping them, scared them to death. They ran, she ran, I ran, I caught her and dragged her back. LOL A wether sized her up and butted her, knocked her down. She just got up and went after them again. She loves the sheep, but I have to watch that she doesn't get hurt.
> 
> View attachment 55388
> 
> ...


She is such a cutie! It’s so much fun watching kids with animals.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 30, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> The only reason i mentioned it is because my kid jump up on my lap (my fault) and stand on there hind lehs to get to me first...it is not comfortable on my thighs at all ! ...i have spoiled them for sure....but they are my kids and i love them....nice that life has evened out for you. My oil arrived today, have started on it, it is 10...got capsules and oil....shall keep you up to date with results. Hope you have a wonderful  weekend.


Yes. I think things have finally turned the corner for my goats. They were acting completely silly tonight.

With the exception of Billy the Kid. For two days now he’s been kind of standing off by himself. I do know that should be a concerning flag where goats are concerned. But last weekend they had fecal samples examined, $$$$. They are “worm free” and according to their stools they are in good health. Their coats are really soft and shiny. They are noticeably gaining weight. I do need to reweigh them to know for sure. The only issue they have is a cough. The same cough the vet didn’t address when they had their surgery. They do not have lung worm, they’ve been tested and it hasn’t responded to a course of penicillin, or dectomax. So they received a dose of draxxin a day or two ago. The bases should be covered. Right? The only other thing I can think of is the fact that he hemorrhaged for two hours last Sunday. Is it possible he’s still recovering from that? I wouldn’t think so. He did have a very active day or two. Am I missing anything? He also has been a lot less Bucky when I give him his bottle.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 1, 2018)

I’m not ready to switch breed of goats or even breed them, not yet. Does anyone in here have any experience with the Jamnapari goat?


----------



## Carla D (Dec 2, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> No, but id take thoes ears for sure !


They are sharp looking ears.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 2, 2018)

I think we know now where all the Lamancha ears went!


----------



## Baymule (Dec 2, 2018)

Are there even any in the US? With exotic new breeds, the price is usually extremely high and stays high until they become common. Cool looking goats though.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 2, 2018)

Bruce said:


> I think we know now where all the Lamancha ears went!


I think you’re right.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 2, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Are there even any in the US? With exotic new breeds, the price is usually extremely high and stays high until they become common. Cool looking goats though.


I think there are a very few in the US. But, they typically need to be shipped in. From what I can figure out they are the ancestors of the American Nubian. They have also been around since the 1950’s, but I can’t find any other historical facts about them. Here’s a few sites that have a bit of information. There is also a major discrepancy about the cost of a kid. One site I found the were less than $200. Another site they were being sold for $2000+.

https://www.goatfarming.in/jamunapari-goat

http://www.petworlds.net/jamnapari-goat/

https://www.goatfarming.in/jamunapari-goat


----------



## greybeard (Dec 2, 2018)

Carla D said:


> I think there are a very few in the US. But, they typically need to be shipped in. From what I can figure out they are the ancestors of the American Nubian. They have also been around since the 1950’s, but I can’t find any other historical facts about them. Here’s a few sites that have a bit of information. There is also a major discrepancy about the cost of a kid. One site I found the were less than $200. Another site they were being sold for $2000+.
> 
> https://www.goatfarming.in/jamunapari-goat
> 
> ...


Those are sites regarding that breed goat in India.
USDA/APHIS regulates all livestock imports coming into the USA and currently, there are only 3 countries thru/from which sheep and goats can come.

_*Importing Sheep and Goats *
(Note: live sheep and goats may only be imported from the following listed countries)
*Canada*_


_
Protocol US-origin sheep and goat movements through Canada from one US location to a second US location

Import of Direct to Slaughter Sheep and Goats to the United States; no permit is required; the port of entry into the 
United States must be notified at least three days in advance (link to port information).

Protocol for the Import of Feeder Sheep and Goats to the United States (document is currently being updated); no permit is required.
NOTE: There are currently no approved feedlots for imported Canadian sheep and goats currently available in the U.S. 

_
_*Australia*; a permit and export health certificate are required._


_
Protocol Import of Live Goats and Sheep from Australia November 2018
_
_*New Zealand*; a permit and export health certificate are required._


_
Protocol Import of Live Goats and Sheep from New Zealand March 2018
_

If the embedded hyperlinks above don't work for you, you can follow this link, then click on the appropriate  icon that will open a pdf file explaining what each of the above import protocols actually is.
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ou...nimal-imports/import-sheep-goat-semen-embryos

There was/is an agreement in the works to include all of Great Britain in this but I haven't heard if it has been officially stamped for approval.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 2, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Those are sites regarding that breed goat in India.
> USDA/APHIS regulates all livestock imports coming into the USA and currently, there are only 3 countries thru/from which sheep and goats can come.
> 
> _*Importing Sheep and Goats *
> ...


You and Latestarter sure know a lot about a lot of stuff. It’s kinda nice to have met the two of you. Straight from the hip, no minced words, and matter of factly. It never occurred to me that there would be import restrictions on livestock. But I guess things can get a little sticky with interstate transactions as well. At least DH doesn’t like buying out of state animals.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Dec 3, 2018)

Carla D said:


> At least DH doesn’t like buying out of state animals.



Does he insist they "baaaa!" with a Wisconsin accent?


----------



## greybeard (Dec 3, 2018)

Carla D said:


> You and Latestarter sure know a lot about a lot of stuff.


Some I know from experience, but a lot, I research to find out. 
The hardest, most expensive and most lasting lessons are from your own experiences.
The cheapest and easiest are  from the lessons others have learned via '_their_' experiences.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 3, 2018)

I used to know quite a bit. The older I get, the less I know. In fact some of what I used to know, I am finding I no longer do...   I "know" a very little, about a lot.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 3, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> I used to know quite a bit. The older I get, the less I know. In fact some of what I used to know, I am finding I no longer do...   I "know" a very little, about a lot.


I suffer from something similar as well. There are things I used to be confident about my knowledge of. Now, I find myself questioning or second guessing myself. I haven’t even hit 50 yrs old.


----------



## greybeard (Dec 3, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> I used to know quite a bit.


As did I. As a matter of fact, (like most ppl) back when I was not quite 20, I knew everything.........

Now, there are things i know...things I don't know.
Things I don't know I know, and things I don't know I don't know, and things I know I don't know.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 3, 2018)

Yup GB, that about covered all the bases.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 3, 2018)

I think that it does cover all of the bases.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 3, 2018)

greybeard said:


> As did I. As a matter of fact, (like most ppl) back when I was not quite 20, I knew everything.........
> 
> Now, there are things i know...things I don't know.
> Things I don't know I know, and things I don't know I don't know, and things I know I don't know.


Things I’ll never know, things I don’t want to know, things I wish I didn’t know?


----------



## Bruce (Dec 3, 2018)

That too, yep there are things you wish you didn't know, but can't erase.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 3, 2018)

Rammy said:


> It gets worse.


I sure hope it don’t. It was only 4 years ago that I worried about feeding my new baby girl. I knew I’d forget sometime or another. It’s not bad now, because I know my daughter will tell me she’s hungry now. That wasn’t always the case.


----------



## greybeard (Dec 3, 2018)

Bruce said:


> That too, yep there are things you wish you didn't know, but can't erase.


Wish you didn't know now what you didn't know then?


----------



## Bruce (Dec 3, 2018)

Some things, yep. Of course there are the "if I knew then what I know now" a lot of poor decisions would not have been made. No nothing dangerous or illegal!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 3, 2018)

@Southern by choice, I was wondering if it was too soon for one of the black “caps” over a dehorning site to fall off. It’s been three weeks since the boys had their surgery. Tonight while I was feeding them I heard a small cry from one of them. Jack had come to me with one red spot and one black cap on his head where the horns used to be. Either he bumped it or another goat was climbing on him. There isn’t any open cavity, just enough bleeding to make half of the site red, it doesn’t seem to be bothering him at all, for the short moment I watched him. Unfortunately I didn’t have any blue coat to spray on the site. Are they all going to start loosing their scab or “caps”?


----------



## Southern by choice (Dec 4, 2018)

Yes, they will start to falloff. Some scabs will bleed a little but shouldn't be a concern. I am not a fan of using blukote.  Wipe the top if necessary and keep an eye out.
IMO blukote like so many other things people put on scabs, small wounds etc end up trapping bacteria.  Sometimes the scabs get itchy and they rub them off too. 

Just a thought- with your hoof trimming thread but even in situations like bisbudding etc.... keep some kwik stop on hand always! 
I only like certain brands... there is one brand that comes in a big container and is grey, it is very cheap. Don't get that one. USELESS!
I just get mine when I order dog supplies or at a pet store, small container usually a few oz. Last forever if stored well. You'll want it if you ever nick a hoof, and it happens.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 5, 2018)

I did get some Wonder Dust yesterday. I like that it has a spout and not a shaker top.

 

It has been a weird day at the farm today. It was a late start day. Noon, not 9:00am. I’m trying to switch nipples on the bottles today. Six of them caught on with very little resistance. But the two that didn’t were given several attempts and never caught on. I finally put the two bottles down so the rest of the goats could teach them how it’s done. That didn’t work. But, I did see those two drinking out of the water bowl. They may not have gotten milk this morning but, I know they know where to wet their whistle. I’ll going to give them another try tonight. I’ve been struggling to get my multiple nipple feeder to not leak. I’ve discovered that the Pritchard are going to leak nonstop. That’s what prompted me to switch to lamb nipples. I think they will work much better, once I can get the bucket to stop leaking.

Then my husband was out doing his pig chores. Our big boar, Spot jumped the fence to get after our gilt, Midnight Special. She’s only 8 months old, and one of his first prodegies. So it was quite a challenge to keep spot off of her, which she was in heat, and to get Spot in with his own girls. He’s a stubborn, big, boar. One of his girls was in heat as well, Blacky. We have a very, very pregnant sow in the barn. We were pretty sure that she would have deliver about 3 weeks ago. She’s gotta be really close though. Her belly nearly rubs the ground, nipples engourged, back side is darn puffy too. I guess Spot hadn’t discussed the weather when we thought they might have. So we’ll see if anything has changed in a couple of hours.

I also got rid of our remaining five young kittens. They are going to another farm where there is a 10-14 year old girl to spoil them. I finally got out “sick bay” cleaned, sanitized, and set up for its first patient. We weren’t expecting it to be a cat however. Turns out our teenage kitty, Little Diamond got into a fight with another animal. 


 Her paw was chewed up pretty badly. Took her to the vet, got her antibiotic, pain meds, rabies shot, and something else. So she’s recovering in the kennel. I also had to give her medication for two days. One more day left. Then she can run free if she wishes to.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 8, 2018)

It’s a sad day for us on our farm. We went in to check on the baby pigs that were born yesterday. We had 8 last night when we left the farm. This morning there was only 6 in the pen to be found. Thirty minutes after being on the farm one of the remaining babies got stepped on by the sow, it’s head. It wasn’t good, half of its face was scalped. By the time the vet got out there to stitch him up it was too late. He’d gone into shock, breathing really shallow. We put it down. I only wish we would have done that right away instead of waiting for the vet to come out and stitch him up. It went from one eyebrow across the forehead in front of its ear, behind its eye, and into its cheek. This momma isn’t doing so hot this time around. She delivered 11 and is down to 5 in a 24 hour period. It’s not looking very good for Thelma.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 8, 2018)

Hi @Rammy , how have you been doing?


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Dec 8, 2018)

So sorry for your loss.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 8, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Yikes, Carla...is that a picture of the pigs cut ?  Hope things get better with the piggies....


It is a picture of his cut. I had held it proximated for several minutes before taking this picture. That is only about half of the cut that you are seeing.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 8, 2018)

Rammy said:


> Pretty good. Cold outside right now. Wind dont help much. Been out twice today running errands for the folks.


I think we are going to brave the crowds today and do some shopping for the kids and grandkids. YUK!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 8, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Poor little guy, too bad momma is being a pain with her small litter....


She sure is. First she was withholding her babies for 5 weeks. We must have miscalculated her due date. And now she only has 5 babies left. We don’t even have another sow to surrogate for her. She was such a fabulous mom her first litter. But she was in a farrowing crate for that birth. We didn’t like the fact that the sows could move around much because they were in the crate.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 8, 2018)

Rammy said:


> Pretty good. Cold outside right now. Wind dont help much. Been out twice today running errands for the folks.


It has been really cold here and blustery. We got down to 4 degrees two nights ago. I think this is going to be a harsh winter this year.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 8, 2018)

I hate losing baby animals. I hate losing any animals, but losing the babies because of various things just gets to me. I'm sorry that Thelma is being a lousy mom this time.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 8, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I hate losing baby animals. I hate losing any animals, but losing the babies because of various things just gets to me. I'm sorry that Thelma is being a lousy mom this time.


I really do too. I wish I knew what happened or why Thelma ate two babies overnight.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 8, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> How much time did she have between breedings  before  she was rebred ?


Five months, I think.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 8, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Was just reading to remind myself...once a pig starts killing her piglets...it is likly she will kill the rest and likly she will do same in next litter.....can you take them out and bottle feed all but one ?  And keep them seperated from her ?  Beats loosing more babies


Thank you @B&B Happy goats , we did find two of the three missing piglets. They had been buried under the bedding in the pen. We think we may have had too much bedding in there. We added some a couple of days earlier to encourage her to nest/labor. Then it was super cold here last night, around zero degrees. We added a bit more bedding to keep everyone warm. We think the babies couldn’t get away fast enough, and also confused Louise. She may have eaten the missing one or it got buried. Well find out in a day or two when we clean it out. We did move her and her remaining babies into a different stall tonight. We are hoping that resolves our issue. If it doesn’t. I think we will be looking for another farmer that may have a surrogate to feed them for a few weeks.


----------



## Rammy (Dec 9, 2018)

Sorry about your baby pigs. I hope you dont have any more lost.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Dec 9, 2018)

My baby pigs always bury themselves under any hay/bedding they can when it gets cold.  When they come busting out of a hay pile it's pretty surprising!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 9, 2018)

frustratedearthmother said:


> My baby pigs always bury themselves under any hay/bedding they can when it gets cold.  When they come busting out of a hay pile it's pretty surprising!


We had two this time around that liked to bury themselves in the bedding. It is so cute to watch them burrow in. They would move their little snout just a bit and play peek-a-boo.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 9, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> At least she isn't  eating them, so now your up to how many piglets ?


We haven’t been out there yet this morning. There better be four babies out there. She’s really close to becoming Christmas gift for the family.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 9, 2018)

It is pretty full. But hubby has 5 siblings and I have 1. We could easily divvy up one or two big pigs between them. I like the piglet idea too.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 9, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> At least she isn't  eating them, so now your up to how many piglets ?


We still have four babies this morning. Three girls and and a boy. We may give the boy to my brother. He wants a suckling to eat.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 9, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Well if you did the piglett thing, they would feed them through  the winter ....and enjoy their company...and by spring they would be begging you to take them back...its a win win all around


That would be a win-win situation. I like the way you think. Twisted yet practical. Lmao!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 9, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> VERY TWISTED , lol....good luck with the piglets, hope you keep posting pictures of them


I will have to take a few pictures if I remember tonight. The piglets that are six weeks old are already 28-30# with the exception of Half Pint, he only weighs 12#. He was the smallest little runt ever. He’s got every intention of catching up in size to the others. When he was about two weeks old he started sneaking out of the pen by going under the door. He was that small. There is at most a 2.5-3” gap between the door and the floor. We even put a board there in attempt to prevent piggies from getting out. Once we realized he was doing that we kept food and water for him outside the pen. He’s really good at guarding his territory. He hops right into the food dish and won’t let anyone eat out of it until he’s done.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 9, 2018)

They are getting big. The piglets  are pushing 30# and they are already 6 weeks old.

There are several pictures of them a few posts down from this.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 10, 2018)

My little goats are gaining weight. Some more than others.



 

Here’s some current pictures of how big the boys have gotten.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 10, 2018)

Feisty little critters aren't they!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 10, 2018)

Here’s some pictures of our 6-7 week old babies. Most of them are between 25-30#. Our runt Half Pint weighsonly 12#. But he has survived a whole lot longer and is growing faster than anyone expected him to. Here is a picture of Half Pint.



 

 I believe Half Pint is the back row of pi’s in this picture. He has a small white marking on his forehead.



















This is a picture of them on their first day.





Bruce said:


> Feisty little critters aren't they!


All of our critters are feisty. Except for Halfy, our pregnant sow who’s due in a month.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 10, 2018)

Here’s some pictures of our 2-3 day old babies. She started out with 11 babies total, with 8 survivors. This is all that’s left of her litter. We are not sure about what we should name the little girl with a ring around her midsection. We thought possibly Oreo. But that name hasn’t stuck yet. Can you think of any names for the banded little girl?


----------



## Carla D (Dec 10, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> LOVE the pig pile picture ! Thank you for sharing the goat pictures, really happy it all has turned out well for you with them. They look good


Thank you. There is still one or two that need to do some serious weight gaining. Especially Jack, the Saanen. At least he isn’t losing weight.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 10, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Half pint, ringer, buckles, bandit, flossie, ellie belly...lol


We already have a Half Pint, a runt from 6 weeks ago. I kinda like the name Flossy. It’s a bit old fashioned, but really cute.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 10, 2018)

Here’s some pictures of our 2-3 day old babies. She started out with 11 babies total, with 8 survivors. This is all that’s left of her litter. We are not sure about what we should name the little girl with a ring around her midsection. We thought possibly Oreo. But that name hasn’t stuck yet. Can you think of any names for the banded little girl? 

View attachment 55722 View attachment 55724


----------



## Baymule (Dec 10, 2018)

For your banded piglet, first thing I thought of was Candystripe. 

Those are some cutie piglets. People think it's a veiled insult when I say "cuter than a new speckled piglet" LOL Now you tell me a new speckled piglet ain't cute! 

You have walked through fire on your baby goats. I am in admiration of your efforts, you have raised them up and they are looking great. Be proud of yourself for what you have done. Instead of killing them in ignorance, you got right on here and asked questions, wanted detailed answers to make sure you got it right and didn't mind announcing that you were a blank page. You_ wanted to learn_ and learn you did. You have done a fine job, just look at them!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 10, 2018)

Baymule said:


> For your banded piglet, first thing I thought of was Candystripe.
> 
> Those are some cutie piglets. People think it's a veiled insult when I say "cuter than a new speckled piglet" LOL Now you tell me a new speckled piglet ain't cute!
> 
> You have walked through fire on your baby goats. I am in admiration of your efforts, you have raised them up and they are looking great. Be proud of yourself for what you have done. Instead of killing them in ignorance, you got right on here and asked questions, wanted detailed answers to make sure you got it right and didn't mind announcing that you were a blank page. You_ wanted to learn_ and learn you did. You have done a fine job, just look at them!


I absolutely LOVE spotted pigs/piglets. There is nothing cuter than that except for @Danielle89 and her little girlie girl of a goat in the backseat. 

Candy stripe is a really cute name as well as Flossy. But tonight I went to the barn and only found three babies. I don’t know if we want to get attached to and name any of these babies since they seem to be predestined to die.

Thank you @Baymule. I’m not much for not doing everything possible to save or care for any animal that I adopt, feed, or call my pet. My hubby and I feel the same about his pigs and our farm cats. I don’t know too many people who would take one of their farm cats to the vet and give them meds for a few additional days. We even took a two day old piglet to the vet to try and save him instead of putting him down immediately. Sometimes our hearts take over when our brains should be listened to.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 11, 2018)

I have another goat issue. This is on the side/flank of one of my very few goats that hasn’t really had any medical emergencies to this point. There was a boil or something there before tonight.

It only looks to be skin deep. Since it’s not bleeding, not deep, clean  I thought I would leave it open to air. Does that seem appropriate?


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 11, 2018)

That looks to me like a flap of skin has been peeled back... Is that what I'm seeing? Or perhaps a puncture?


----------



## Carla D (Dec 12, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> That looks to me like a flap of skin has been peeled back... Is that what I'm seeing? Or perhaps a puncture?


To me t looks like skin that had been pealed back as well. Not a puncture. But I’m a bit concerned. It doesn’t seem to be bothering him one bit.  What do I do for it?


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 12, 2018)

If you wish, you can rub a little triple antibiotic on it. Honestly though, IME, on an otherwise healthy animal, you can generally just leave it alone and it will take care of itself.

ETA: I would however look around their area to see what he got himself "hung up on" that caused the flesh tear. Maybe an exposed nail head, or sharp board edge...


----------



## Carla D (Dec 12, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> If you wish, you can rub a little triple antibiotic on it. Honestly though, IME, on an otherwise healthy animal, you can generally just leave it alone and it will take care of itself.
> 
> ETA: I would however look around their area to see what he got himself "hung up on" that caused the flesh tear. Maybe an exposed nail head, or sharp board edge...


Thank you. I will be looking around for anything that may have caused it. I would have put triple antibiotic on it last night. But since it’s been freezing cold I’ve brought everything liquid, gel, or spray home so it wouldn’t freeze or explode out there. I need to start hauling a few things back and forth when I go out there.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 12, 2018)

This little red boar knows exactly where to find his food. I doubt he’s going to miss very many meals. Here’s a few pictures of our three surviving piglets.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 12, 2018)

Heres a video so you can see the kind of mischief these three get into.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 12, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> The pictures are adorable  but the video  had us laughing....thank you for sharing


They are such little pigs. I worried they would struggle to survive being away from their momma. I think I was worrying over nothing.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 12, 2018)

Even the runt looks healthy. That’s the little black one. I’m in love with these three babies.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 12, 2018)

Hey! Little Candystripe made it out alive! They sure are cute.


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Dec 13, 2018)

Rammy said:


> When she's old enough to get bred, if you keep her that long, you can change it to Floozie............


Woman, you still make me lol


----------



## Carla D (Dec 13, 2018)

Rammy said:


> When she's old enough to get bred, if you keep her that long, you can change it to Floozie............


Funny girl!
The runt, little black boy is Peanut.
The red one is Hamlet.
The little girl, I’m going to name her Gidget.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 13, 2018)

My hubby just got home from working on the farm. He had an accident on the farmbefore he came home. He’s been building an outdoor area for out 6-7 week old piglets so they can go outside and play. His post hole driver somehow fell on his head. He already has a bad neck and spine due to his time in the military. This is sending shocks down his neck and back. I worry about him. He gets so busy and all consumed into what he’s doing almost everyday. One of these times he’s going to be hauled off the farm on a gurney headed for the hospital.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 13, 2018)

Rammy said:


> Ouch! You taking him to the hospital? Hope he didnt seriously hurt himself.


He won’t let me take him to the hospital. Nor has he called in for work, he starts at 10pm tonight. I wish he wasn’t so stinking stubborn.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 13, 2018)

I have an appointment for him to be seen at the drs office in town. He better let me take him there. He needs an X-ray, at the very least. I can tell if he’s sleeping heavy or has a concussion.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 13, 2018)

Rammy said:


> Thats what I was afraid of. First thought was a concussion. He better go. The alterntive isnt so good.


I agree with you. I’m not giving him a choice in going to the doctor or not.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 13, 2018)

Waiting on Dr report.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 13, 2018)

He refused to go. Since he can sit on the edge of the bed and walk to and from the bathroom he refused to go to the doctor and I’m sure he has every intention of going to work. I did tell his supervisor what happened and asked him to check on him acouple of time while he’s at work. He agreed to do that for me. 

He’s hurting. He can’t stand up straight and it is written all over his face how bad he’s hurting. I really wish I could have gotten him to go to the doctor this afternoon. But, just like a child he laid back down and said I’m not going. There wasn’t much I could do at that point. He can be a knucklehead sometimes.


----------



## Mike CHS (Dec 13, 2018)

I'm as bad as any man about not going to the doctor but if he isn't functioning, he is putting himself as well as his family at risk..  I don't know how much pressure you can apply but a concussion isn't something to sluff off.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 13, 2018)

Rammy said:


> Thats what I was afraid of. First thought was a concussion. He better go. The alterntive isnt so good.


Sure isn't. And those post pounders are HEAVY. Suppose you could knock him out and get the EMTs to take him in? 

I really hope he is OK


----------



## Bruce (Dec 13, 2018)

If he gets worse have them send him directly to the hospital, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 13, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Sure isn't. And those post pounders are HEAVY. Suppose you could knock him out and get the EMTs to take him in?
> 
> I really hope he is OK


This post pounder wasn’t just sitting on something and fell on him. He was using it and it got away from him. Then it was only 24 degrees outside so things were really cold. I truly do hope he’s ok. But, I really do hope work sends him home. I think his pain is only going to get worse over the next 12 hours.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 13, 2018)

I know how that goes with the pounder though I've managed not to get hurt by it when it goes AWOL. So far.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 13, 2018)

Bruce said:


> I know how that goes with the pounder though I've managed not to get hurt by it when it goes AWOL. So far.


Im really glad you’ve avoided injury so far. My husband isn’t young, but he isn’t old either. He doesn’t complain either. But, he has said about his pain and shockwaves going down his back.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 14, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> I take it he stayed at work all night ?... wondering how he feels today.....


He did stay at work all night. He is pretty miserable. I wish there was something I could do for him to make him feel better.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 14, 2018)

My husband used to be a bonehead, for years...…. We moved up here and I finally dragged him to the doctor kicking and screaming. Long story short, he failed a stress test, then flunked a heart catherization, he didn't even leave the hospital after the heart cath and had a triple bypass 2 days later. He was a walking major heart attack, drop dead at any moment. He went on to have knee and shoulder replacement surgery. He feels pretty good now, but I have to watch that he doesn't overdo himself. I will pitch a wall eyed fit at him if he doesn't stop when I see him getting woozy. He's 73 and finally learning to listen to his wife...….see what your future holds?


----------



## Mike CHS (Dec 14, 2018)

I think you and Teresa are made from the same mold.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 14, 2018)

Baymule said:


> My husband used to be a bonehead, for years...…. We moved up here and I finally dragged him to the doctor kicking and screaming. Long story short, he failed a stress test, then flunked a heart catherization, he didn't even leave the hospital after the heart cath and had a triple bypass 2 days later. He was a walking major heart attack, drop dead at any moment. He went on to have knee and shoulder replacement surgery. He feels pretty good now, but I have to watch that he doesn't overdo himself. I will pitch a wall eyed fit at him if he doesn't stop when I see him getting woozy. He's 73 and finally learning to listen to his wife...….see what your future holds?


I don’t think mine will ever listen to me.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 14, 2018)

Even if you have to hit him in the head with a post pounder to knock him out!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 14, 2018)

Carla D said:


> I don’t think mine will ever listen to me.





Baymule said:


> My husband used to be a bonehead, for years...…. We moved up here and I finally dragged him to the doctor kicking and screaming. Long story short, he failed a stress test, then flunked a heart catherization, he didn't even leave the hospital after the heart cath and had a triple bypass 2 days later. He was a walking major heart attack, drop dead at any moment. He went on to have knee and shoulder replacement surgery. He feels pretty good now, but I have to watch that he doesn't overdo himself. I will pitch a wall eyed fit at him if he doesn't stop when I see him getting woozy. He's 73 and finally learning to listen to his wife...….see what your future holds?


Your hubby got really lucky that you dragged him kicking and screaming that day.

As odd as it may be, Jim doesn’t even have a bump on his head that I could find.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 14, 2018)

Jim is an amazing man. He’s so gentle, kind, generous. He has only taken three days (sick days) from work in the last five years. Those were days when our daughter was born. That’s how crazy dedicated he is to his family and work. For three weeks he did his shifts at work and then drove nearly 2 hours each way to see me and our daughter while she was I the hospital. So I try not to give him too big a hassle when he says he’ll be ok.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 14, 2018)

A blow to the head IS a big deal and there are times that Mr. Big And Strong just has to go get checked out. Maybe he'll go this weekend when he is off work. A concussion does not necessarily leave a bump, it is internal. Not fussing at you, just concerned.


----------



## Mike CHS (Dec 14, 2018)

Jim is not going to go to a Doctor so make sure everything is working right as far as you can tell since I would bet he thinks he is fine.  Knowing me I know you can't make him go to a Doctor.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 14, 2018)

Baymule said:


> A blow to the head IS a big deal and there are times that Mr. Big And Strong just has to go get checked out. Maybe he'll go this weekend when he is off work. A concussion does not necessarily leave a bump, it is internal. Not fussing at you, just concerned.


I will certainly be keeping an eye on him, for sure. I know you aren’t fussing at me. He has a very deep seeded stubborn streak. Which drives me insane at times like this.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 14, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> Jim is not going to go to a Doctor so make sure everything is working right as far as you can tell since I would bet he thinks he is fine.  Knowing me I know you can't make him go to a Doctor.


Making him go to the doctor is much like making a 500# pig go someplace it doesn’t want to.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 14, 2018)

There are so many journals in here that I want to read. I don’t even know where to start. I’m even finding members that I’ve not had any contact with. There are some really eye catching headlines. Oh the decisions.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Dec 15, 2018)

That's what I did with you, Miss @Carla D, and with Miss @Rammy, and all of the others I have read so far.  And there are still a lot of journals to read.  I am currently reading a rather long journal, and then I will pick a shorter one, then another long one...  And yes, it is interesting to see what folks have gone through.  I'm glad I have read your journal.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Dec 15, 2018)

I have been on here for some time, and still can't keep up with all the journals LOL

Just jump right in


----------



## Carla D (Dec 15, 2018)

I guess I better start reading. I selected @Latestarter to start reading. I don’t know if I’ll ever get through his journal. He has led a very interesting life to the point I’ve read to.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Dec 15, 2018)

MR. @Latestarter's journal does document quite a few adventures he has had over the past few years.  It took me about 2 months to read it all.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Dec 15, 2018)

Miss @Carla D, you might also enjoy reading Miss @Rammy's journal, too.  It is not as long as @Latestarter's.  You will get to learn about her creepy neighbor, her fun with her farm, her "fun" at her job with a former boss, and her disappearing act behind @Mike CHS.  And she's a funny lady, too!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 15, 2018)

Here’s some update pictures of the boys heads after they were surgically dehorned 4.5 weeks ago. A few of them still have large caps where their horns were. I didn’t think their sites would look this good at this stage of their recovery.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 15, 2018)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D, you might also enjoy reading Miss @Rammy's journal, too.  It is not as long as @Latestarter's.  You will get to learn about her creepy neighbor, her fun with her farm, her "fun" at her job with a former boss, and her disappearing act behind @Mike CHS.  And she's a funny lady, too!


I love @Rammy’s posts. She is a hoot!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 15, 2018)

My hardheaded hubby is doing really good today. He’s trying to finish up a four person warming shack. Winters can be brutal here. We have had some very, very cold nights out here. We had our first batch of baby piggies this last April. Believe it or not, we had subzero temps. My daughter and I spent three overnights out there while three of our first-time moms farrowed. It was so cold, even with a propane heater out there. This shack is being built with a repurposed ice fishing shack. It’s going to be insulated, a window in the door, tool storage, heater, and four chairs in it. It is going to be a very welcomed addition to our farm. Jim even went outside for a few laughs when we had baby goats outside. I guess we can’t really call them baby goats anymore. They are nearly three months old. I can’t believe I’ve had them that long.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 15, 2018)

Good deal on the warming shack!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 15, 2018)

And I was told goats don’t like snow or wet. I guess we forgot to tell the boys this. Rusty Nails, and Ringo Star both busted out for a second trip out in the snow. Abigail has so much fun with our boys. Here’s one video of Rusty Nails out on the run. I have more videos that I’m loading onto YouTube.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 15, 2018)

Hubby wants me to raise rabbits too. We do have a few family members interested in rabbit meat. But, I don’t currently have meat rabbits. They a supposedly a mix of Lionhead and Mini Rex. Heather, the gray spotted rabbit is a lot bigger than Clover, the black spotted rabbit. 

We are also looking into buying our own property/farm. We are rapidly outgrowing my SIL little farm. In March and April we will be having another explosion of piglets. Then late next year we will have about 13 gilts delivering roughly the same time. If we had a bigger place I’d consider raising meat goats on top of our current crew of wethers.
This is one property we are looking at. It’s only about 2-3 miles from the farm we are currently occupying.
See what I found on #Zillow!
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/N8403-County-Road-Y-River-Falls-WI-54022/2088329130_zpid/


----------



## Baymule (Dec 15, 2018)

That's a pretty piece of land. Half mile from the river, is it high and dry, does it flood?


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 15, 2018)

In "flat country" rivers can have some pretty incredible flood plains... Would you be purchasing the property to use entirely as a farm or section off an area to place a residence? Just wondering if you have the ability to "live elsewhere" while using or building on it. I'm actually a little surprised at the price per acre... I would have expected much lower considering where it's located. Of course I'm not familiar with your state or area. Just seems "well removed" from "civilization"... no offense meant or implied. Just very rural. 

ETA: WRT my journal, it was really started and has been maintained as a place for me to just discourse whatever was on my mind. It's taken me 2 & 2/3 years to get to the present entry, so yeah, it's not a one night read. But when you need something to put you to sleep... it's there for ya!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 15, 2018)

Baymule said:


> That's a pretty piece of land. Half mile from the river, is it high and dry, does it flood?


It’s called the Rush River. But for the most part it’s a glorified creek. It does flood in some areas. I’m thinking this property is not in its flood plain. But I’m not 100% certain on that. We’ve driven by several times as it’s on our way to the cabin. Part of it could be.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 15, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> View attachment 55976 In "flat country" rivers can have some pretty incredible flood plains... Would you be purchasing the property to use entirely as a farm or section off an area to place a residence? Just wondering if you have the ability to "live elsewhere" while using or building on it. I'm actually a little surprised at the price per acre... I would have expected much lower considering where it's located. Of course I'm not familiar with your state or area. Just seems "well removed" from "civilization"... no offense meant or implied. Just very rural.
> 
> ETA: WRT my journal, it was really started and has been maintained as a place for me to just discourse whatever was on my mind. It's taken me 2 & 2/3 years to get to the present entry, so yeah, it's not a one night read. But when you need something to put you to sleep... it's there for ya!


Yes, we would section off a small chunk for living on. This piece of property is pretty cheap for this area. Property in this county of Wisconsin is rediculously prices. It’s almost impossible to find an acre of land without a house on it or utilities for less than $45,000. That’s nothing special. Field grade at best. If it’s wooded with hardwood trees it’s a whole lot more. A ¼ acre on the edgy of town with a modest, needs improvement house will usually cost $175,000. I’m not sure how we managed to buy a 2acre lot with a worn out trailer house and garage for $14,000. That’s also prime hunting land.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 15, 2018)

Here’s some more goats in snow videos.


















A couple of new baby pig videos. We are planning on separating Hamlet from the other two. Peanut takes constant whomping from Hamlet. I think if we don’t separate Hamlet, we don’t think Peanut will survive.




https://youtu.be/JJTCpN0WH3Y

Here’s a couple warming shack pictures. Just have to put up some interior walls and tool storage. We could use it now if we got cold, it would work in a pinch.


 


 

We have decided that we need to get the goats outside ASAP. Meaning as fast as we can build it. We found a mouth sore on one of the boys. He’s side of the face is swollen around his mouth as well. I’m starting to wonder if this new sore could be related to the open area on his side. At first I though it was a skin tear. But maybe it’s not. Does anyone have any ideas about these spots? Does he need an antiviral or antibiotic? This is one of our big pushes to get them outside. They are in a small enclosed area that doesn’t get very good air circulation. I’m thinking if we don’t get the boys out of here really soon we will start having more medical issues with them. That would not be very good.





 
This doesn’t show the sore very well. But Elvis had no intention of cooperating to get his picture taken. This mouth sore was NOT there this noon when we took him out to play in the snow. I check them over pretty well twice a day when I feed them. Gotta stay on top of these things.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 16, 2018)

Rammy said:


> Took me 4 months. Make some popcorn.


I didn't take near that long. Or maybe I took way longer since I read it as it unfolded .


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Dec 16, 2018)

Carla D said:


> We are also looking into buying our own property/farm.



Get Miss @Baymule to do it for you.  She is a real bloodhound when it comes to real estate.  (Of course, you might get better results from her if you wanted to move to Texas. )

Nice looking ice fishing house / goat shack.  You should be proud.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 16, 2018)

Carla D said:


> It’s called the Rush River. But for the most part it’s a glorified creek. It does flood in some areas. I’m thinking this property is not in its flood plain. But I’m not 100% certain on that. We’ve driven by several times as it’s on our way to the cabin. Part of it could be.


Look it up on google earth and look at topography. It will give you elevation and you can compare it to the areas that you know that flood. It may also give you the option to click on flood, if so, the areas that flood will turn blue. As long as there is enough high ground to put a house and a barn, you're good. Run the cross fences long ways, from front to back, so that there is never a "low" pasture that your animals would be stuck in, in rising water. 



Carla D said:


> I’m not sure how we managed to buy a 2acre lot with a worn out trailer house and garage for $14,000.



Fix the trailer up a little bit, slap a big price tag on it and laugh all the way to the bank. Clap each other on the back for being so smart and finding such a great deal in the first place.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 16, 2018)

I’m getting baby goat fever, bahd! I love my boys so much. But, I’m thinking about doing meat goats or mini/dwarf goats. Look at these goats and babies I found. My hubby also wants me to get more goats. They are so much fun. Even he gets a huge kick out of them.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 16, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Look it up on google earth and look at topography. It will give you elevation and you can compare it to the areas that you know that flood. It may also give you the option to click on flood, if so, the areas that flood will turn blue. As long as there is enough high ground to put a house and a barn, you're good. Run the cross fences long ways, from front to back, so that there is never a "low" pasture that your animals would be stuck in, in rising water.
> 
> 
> 
> Fix the trailer up a little bit, slap a big price tag on it and laugh all the way to the bank. Clap each other on the back for being so smart and finding such a great deal in the first place.


I don’t think either of us want to part with it. We’ve already tripled its value and all we’ve done is clean the yard, had electrical service buried, and a brand new conventional septic system. We haven’t even spent $10K. We are flabbergasted at how quickly the value has gone up. It still doesn’t have running water in the house and the electrical is questionable at best.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 16, 2018)

@Latestarter here’s just a few of the places in our area to show you what the all mighty dollar will get you in pierce county Wisc.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 17, 2018)

Yeah, and those don't seem to match what you're looking for either...


----------



## Baymule (Dec 17, 2018)

Goats sure are cheap. Seems nobody wants the bucks. Before you get more, you need to examine where you are going with goats. What is the cost to raise them? What will you do with them?  If raising for meat for the freezer, you need to weigh up the cost, what breeds and if you can actually raise them, then eat them. (they do kinda grow on you) LOL.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 17, 2018)

Tonight the boys graduated to pure water, grain, and hay. They had their last milky colored bottle of water tonight. We also found a new weak spot of theirs. Their tummy, that is. They love the jumbo raisins we bought for them at FleetFarm yesterday. I had my little girl put some in her coat pocket. It wasn’t long before they had their muzzle in her pocket. They are crazier about raisins more than they are with Cheetos.

When I went out to feed the three orphaned piglets only two came to the milk dish. Not Peanut. I’m pretty sure he won’t make it through the night. He only slowly moved when Abigail climbed in to give him some attention. Jim decided it was time for nature to take its course.

We also have an injured tomcat. His hind foot is super swollen. I’m wondering if the same thing that chewed up Little Diamond’s paw chewed on Tiger’s paw. 

Kinda bittersweet at the farm tonight.


----------



## Devonviolet (Dec 17, 2018)

All of my goats, think apple leaves are candy.  Now that the leave are almost all off the trees, we will have to try to find something as a replacement until next year. Although, they do also love the trimmings from the trees in the woods (especially cedar).  There are plenty of trees out there, to come up with a replacement.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 18, 2018)

Sorry to hear about the piggy and the cat Carla. Sounds like the cat has a bad infection.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 18, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Sorry to hear about the piggy and the cat Carla. Sounds like the cat has a bad infection.


That’s what I’m thinking about the cat. I have three antibiotics here. I just need to figure out if one of them is safe to give him.

The piggie was holding his own this morning. He actually tried to keep Hamlet from drinking all of the milk. Peanut has more than his share spunk and “balls”. I’m thinking the fact that he has survived for almost two weeks he just might make it. He had the “momma from hell” and now has hamlet “trying” to run the show. Our other runt, Half Pint is no dummy either. He used to sneak out of the pen by going under the gate because he could. He had all of the free feed he could ever want and nobody was going to stop him either. We have never had any luck with our runts of the litter to this point. Both of these little guys know where the food is and nobody will stop them even if they tried. This is the little squirt who found his free meal ticket and used it to his benefit. Half Pint.





And now we have Peanut who seems to be unstoppable as well. He’s the little black one on the far right.




He’s in the middle on this bottom picture.


These are the smallest runts we’ve ever had on our farm. Neither one is a “petunia” if you know what I mean.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 18, 2018)

Carla D said:


> The piggie was holding his own this morning.


Sounds like he deserves extra TLC, he's fighting.


----------



## goatgurl (Dec 18, 2018)

those little guys are sometimes hard to get raised.  hope peanut makes it.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 18, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Sounds like he deserves extra TLC, he's fighting.


He sure does. He needs a bath so badly. He might feel a little better if I were to wash him up. I have a heating pad to warm him up with. They also still have two warming lamps which they love sleeping under. He’s such a good boy. He loves being held. Doesn’t squeal up a storm. Not even when he got a few injections of lidocaine and a stitch. He’s the mellowest and quietest piglet we’ve ever had.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 18, 2018)

goatgurl said:


> those little guys are sometimes hard to get raised.  hope peanut makes it.


I sure hope so too. I’m thinking that since he’s almost two weeks old and does appear to be growing that he’s going to make it. Some nights/days May tougher than others for him.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 20, 2018)

Yesterday we expanded the area our three youngest piglets have had to explore. They seem to be really enjoying life. The image below is a screen shot of a really long video that wasn’t any good except the first 2-3 seconds. No piggies in this picture.



But their world has gotten a whole lot bigger, and they love laying next to the gate where the 7 week old piglets are being housed. They are just too small to join them at this time.

Then it donned on me how big my kids are getting. They are to big for their play gym to be in there, even though they loved it. I kept a small section of it. Then I put a couple of old tires, a few logs, and some chunks of concrete slab in there for them to climb on and explore. They seem pretty intrigued by their new setup. Since they are now to the size and weight that it causes me pain to lift them onto their house where we feed only one or two at a time I’m needing to find a solution to this problem. They are completely weened of their milk replacer. They are still getting bottles of warm water and the attention that comes with the bottle. I think I’m going to try and find nippled lamb bucket. I don’t think they are drinking out of their water dish yet. They are quite spoiled. But they suck down the water. Either they are that thirsty or they need the special attention they get when I feed them individually.










This my be my solution to bottle feeding the goats water. The nipple is a bit bigger than they are used to. But, they will catch on when they get thirsty enough.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 20, 2018)

What B&B said. They are old enough to not "need" a nipple...


----------



## goatgurl (Dec 20, 2018)

what B&B and LS said.  if you worry about them not drinking get one to sucking on your finger and pull your hand slowly down into a bucket of water till their lips touch it, they'll figure it out quickly.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 20, 2018)

Was typing in a decidedly "animal cruelty" joke post, and thought better of it... I already get myself in trouble without trying to... Makes no sense to go out of my way to incite flaming responses...


----------



## Carla D (Dec 20, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Was typing in a decidedly "animal cruelty" joke post, and thought better of it... I already get myself in trouble without trying to... Makes no sense to go out of my way to incite flaming responses...


Let me have it. Or message it to me. I’ve learned to appreciate your humor. A whole lot better then I did the first couple of days.


----------



## CntryBoy777 (Dec 20, 2018)

Something we conditioned our goats to was the color of the bucket....the feed buckets were black and the water buckets were white....after we opened up the larger fenced area we set a couple of white buckets around in different spots....the chickens and ducks also used them.....


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 21, 2018)

OK... As typed and deleted: "You can always grab em' by the neck right behind their ears and dunk their heads in the water bucket a few times... That way they'll know where the water is and you know they'll swallow at least a mouthful or two in the process...  " <---was completely meant as a joke... Do NOT do this.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 21, 2018)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Have you got them a outside area yet  so they can get used to the weather and get exercise ?


Not yet. Hubby needs to finish the warming shack first. It’s getting too  cold to work outside for any length of time. Our daughter can’t tolerate the cold for more than a few, 10-15 minutes without begging to go home. Needless to say nothing gets done past that point. So the warming shack should be helpful. Especially if we stock a couple crayons and coloring books for her.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 21, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> OK... As typed and deleted: "You can always grab em' by the neck right behind their ears and dunk their heads in the water bucket a few times... That way they'll know where the water is and you know they'll swallow at least a mouthful or two in the process...  " <---was completely meant as a joke... Do NOT do this.


It might get to that point. They are very, very upset with me today. I will no longer be giving them bottles. I did actually buy one of those buckets last night. They drank out of it like champs last night. They wouldn’t touch it at all this morning. Only one of my boys drank out of their water dish. I don’t know how long they can go without drinking from either the bucket or their dish. I cannot go back to bottle feeding them. I can’t lift eight goats, one at a time u and back down from their house where they are normally given bottles. The tantrums they threw were outrageous.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 21, 2018)

If they KNOW how to drink out of a dish, seems to me they will if they are thirsty. Basic survival.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 21, 2018)

They'll get over it.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 21, 2018)

Bruce said:


> If they KNOW how to drink out of a dish, seems to me they will if they are thirsty. Basic survival.


I’ve only seen one of the goats drinking from the dish at this point. I’m going to need to find a way to teach them all how to drink out of it.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 21, 2018)

Guess you need to get down on your hands and knees and show them! 
If B&B can get in the tub with her dog, you can do this.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 21, 2018)

This is some of the mischief and tantrums the boys were dishing out this morning.


----------



## Latestarter (Dec 21, 2018)

Hmmmm nuthin' unusual there that I saw. Just growing boys playing. They will get into all kinds of mischief and can be rather destructive if they aren't in a very sturdy containment. They will rip that light down now that they've figured out they can grab it with their mouth. Or break the chain and eat it. Neither are good outcomes.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 21, 2018)

Um, you don't think it is a bit of a problem that the goats can reach the electric wires feeding that light??


----------



## Baymule (Dec 21, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> OK... As typed and deleted: "You can always grab em' by the neck right behind their ears and dunk their heads in the water bucket a few times... That way they'll know where the water is and you know they'll swallow at least a mouthful or two in the process...  " <---was completely meant as a joke... Do NOT do this.


I have done that to multiple types of animals. It’s not cruel, if done right. It works.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 21, 2018)

Rammy said:


> When they get thirsty enough, they will figure out the buckets have water in it and drink it. You just have them spoiled.


I know. Guilty as charged.


Latestarter said:


> Hmmmm nuthin' unusual there that I saw. Just growing boys playing. They will get into all kinds of mischief and can be rather destructive if they aren't in a very sturdy containment. They will rip that light down now that they've figured out they can grab it with their mouth. Or break the chain and eat it. Neither are good outcomes.


thank you. We will have to move that today.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 21, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Um, you don't think it is a bit of a problem that the goats can reach the electric wires feeding that light??


That’ll fixed ASAP. We are heading out there right now.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 21, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I have done that to multiple types of animals. It’s not cruel, if done right. It works.


That’s really good to know. I think I’m going to be goat dunking this afternoon. I know they must be thirsty. It’s been over 24 hours since they had their last bottle.


----------



## luvmypets (Dec 21, 2018)

How is peanut doing?


----------



## Carla D (Dec 21, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Guess you need to get down on your hands and knees and show them!
> If B&B can get in the tub with her dog, you can do this.


I draw the line their. I already have have issues with them jumping on us which I’m trying to break. And I can’t stand having my daughters or my hair being chewed on.


luvmypets said:


> How is peanut doing?


peanut is hanging in there. He’s actually doing pretty good.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 21, 2018)

Ok. The light has been moved out of their reach. The heat lamp was taken out of there since they haven’t used it in about three weeks. I get the boys outside as often as I can. We have no intention of waiting until spring to get the goats outside. We just need the time to get something built and an outdoor area fenced off. But it’s going to take some time and some money. As far as I’m concerned they can get by with a 20’x20’ area to run around in for now. We can make it much bigger in the spring. While my hubby is really handy and a great builder it is nw winter in Wisconsin. Our ground has been frozen for a month now. I know pounding in t-posts isn’t impossible even in the frozen ground. But, there needs to be a place where he/we can get out of the cold every so often. Or else we get things set up to work then we are to cold to work and then have to put the equipment back in the barn. If we leave it out, Mother Nature will find it necessary to snow heavy and bury all of it then we can’t get it until things thaw out a bit. We do have a sense of urgency to get them outside. We didn’t know what we were getting ourselves into back in September when we got the little guys. He didn’t have a clue that they would grow as fast as they have. We now know otherwise. We are also running out of space for the critters we currently have. But by next October we plan on have a whole mess of babies with our 12 young gilts that were born 7-8 weeks ago. We need to figure out what is most cost effective for the moment, yet can either be moved to a new place or be adjusted in the spring. We currently have 24 pigs of different sizes and ages. 8 young goats, two rabbits, and three cats that are being maintained on about 1.5 acres. We have a sow due in about two weeks-a month. And two cats that we think are pregnant. We are busting out at the seams. We just need to figure out what the next step will be and and then implement it. We aren’t stalling or wasting time. We just don’t have enough time to get done everything we need to be doing. Right now, we have been working on keeping them and us fed and housed. They can survive in tight quarters for a few months, just not much longer than a few months.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 22, 2018)

Carla D said:


> We didn’t know what we were getting ourselves into back in September when we got the little guys. He didn’t have a clue that they would grow as fast as they have. We now know otherwise.


Just like when people get day old chicks and THEN start building the coop


----------



## Carla D (Dec 22, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Just like when people get day old chicks and THEN start building the coop


That is it, exactly!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 22, 2018)

I weighed the boys this morning. Empty stomach as usual. Some of these guys are growing at pretty big paces.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Dec 22, 2018)

Looks like Billy the Kid is a glutton, lol!!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 22, 2018)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Looks like Billy the Kid is a glutton, lol!!



I’m not very good at determining what a good and healthy goat looks like. This is a video we took about a week ago of him playing around outside. He is one of my tallest goats. I don’t think he looks over weight. This is about 30-60 minutes after he was fed. 




But I’ve seen some healthy young Nubians and I thought they were underweight.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Dec 22, 2018)

I think he looks good!  I was mostly commenting on the 16lb. gain in two weeks, lol!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 22, 2018)

frustratedearthmother said:


> I think he looks good!  I was mostly commenting on the 16lb. gain in two weeks, lol!


That that does seem like a lot, for 2 weeks. I kinda thought they may have lost weight since I recently weaned them.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Dec 26, 2018)

Miss @Carla D,

Did you and your family have a white Christmas?  If so, did you take any pictures?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Carla D (Dec 26, 2018)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> Did you and your family have a white Christmas?  If so, did you take any pictures?
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


There was a little white this year for Christmas. But, it was more brown than white. I didn’t take any pictures either. Christmas is one of the holidays that I struggle with. It’s not a happy time for me, not since the year 2000. I am trying to change that though. Having a young child, kinda gotta like expecting a three day blizzard on top ifthe rain we are supposed to be getting in a couple of hours.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 26, 2018)

Having a young child means that you have to move forward and make it a happy day for her. Over time, it will return to being a happy day for you too. Whatever happened to make it a sad occasion for you will still tug at your heart, but the joy you find in your daughter will help to counter balance it.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Dec 26, 2018)

Carla D said:


> I weighed the boys this morning. Empty stomach as usual. Some of these guys are growing at pretty big paces.View attachment 56247


They are catching up! Good job!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 27, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Having a young child means that you have to move forward and make it a happy day for her. Over time, it will return to being a happy day for you too. Whatever happened to make it a sad occasion for you will still tug at your heart, but the joy you find in your daughter will help to counter balance it.


Thank you. I hope you are right. Christmas in 2000 is the last time my gramma went home. She had been battling cancer for several months. She fought to stay alive for one more family holiday. Her entire family was around her, even the across the country ones. She faded that night and was gone 36 hours later. Our family has never been the same.

Then my husbands mom passed away 7 years ago at this time as well.

Yes, watching Abigail glow and getting excited is a pretty good bandaid. For both me and my husband. These two picture are of Abigail and my only niece who’s 16 years old. They had so much fun together.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 27, 2018)

Goat Whisperer said:


> They are catching up! Good job!


They sure have. I’m pretty sure I’ve been overfeeding them with their grain. But now that they are weened and eating lots of hay, I’m cutting back on that as well. I do have 150# of grains to in the barn. But, like others have said, they have become brats. The grain may actually go away entirely eventually.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 27, 2018)

Your Grandma lives on in you. As her grand daughter, you have her as part of who you are, as does your daughter. I am the family oldster now, although I don't feel old, LOL. Family generations move forward, molded and shaped by the generations before them and around them. Don't be sad for your Grandma, rejoice and be glad that she no longer suffers with cancer. She is still with you, looking after you. Remember her with joy and concentrate on the happy memories.

My sister and I sat at her table Christmas night reminiscing about old times, relatives long gone, their quirks and traits and memories of them. It was fun, we laughed, our sister-in-law told stories of her husband, our brother and while we miss him, it was fun to share memories about him. My 11 year old grand daughter sat nearby, soaking it all up, we told stories of our parents, grand parents, aunts, uncles and had a good time remembering all that have gone before us. While I am not one to look back much, it was fun to share memories and laugh about them. 

Maybe next year you could tell stories about your Grandma, funny, sad and filled with the love you have for her. It would make you feel better to share fun stories of what she meant to you. Trust me on this.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 27, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Your Grandma lives on in you. As her grand daughter, you have her as part of who you are, as does your daughter. I am the family oldster now, although I don't feel old, LOL. Family generations move forward, molded and shaped by the generations before them and around them. Don't be sad for your Grandma, rejoice and be glad that she no longer suffers with cancer. She is still with you, looking after you. Remember her with joy and concentrate on the happy memories.
> 
> My sister and I sat at her table Christmas night reminiscing about old times, relatives long gone, their quirks and traits and memories of them. It was fun, we laughed, our sister-in-law told stories of her husband, our brother and while we miss him, it was fun to share memories about him. My 11 year old grand daughter sat nearby, soaking it all up, we told stories of our parents, grand parents, aunts, uncles and had a good time remembering all that have gone before us. While I am not one to look back much, it was fun to share memories and laugh about them.
> 
> Maybe next year you could tell stories about your Grandma, funny, sad and filled with the love you have for her. It would make you feel better to share fun stories of what she meant to you. Trust me on this.


That does sound like an amazing idea. But my grandmother and grandfather have very deep connections with my little girl. My grandmother was watching over Abigail when she was born. She told my baby that now was the time to fight for life and love not time to join them in heaven yet. My grandfather used to watch over her when she was sleeping. I’ve seen his orbs several times. He was fierce with his love for his granddaughter and two greatgranddaughters. My grandmother and I also have a very special connection to each other.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 27, 2018)

Rammy said:


> Sorry that the holidays are so sad for you. I know your grandma loved you.


Yes. I know she did as well. My grandmother and I had a very special connection.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 30, 2018)

Our little farm grew today by 13. My personal and very favoritest sow, Half-and-Half delivered 13 perfect, alive, healthy, and very active little pigs this morning. Every one of them survived except one of them. We are going to take the blame for that death. She laid on it only because we disrupted her and her babies by mushing on her. This is her second big litter for being only 1.5 years old. This is the first one she’s ever laid on. All of hers have been born alive. We only lost two of them in her first litter. I don’t remember why either. I was never positive that she was pregnant this time around until her belly dropped and her teats engorged. That was only last week when that happened. She did not like being pregnant at all this time. She got injured the day we released her and her babies out of their farrowing crate this spring. That is when I became so attached to her. We isolated her so she could heal her leg. She got so much attention while she was healing. All I had to do was walk in the barn and say “Hey Beautiful.” And she came running to the gate with pure excitement to see me and she never once walked away from the chance to be pampered. She loved it when I brought her bouquets of “ditch weed/wild flowers” for a sweet snack. Here’s a video of my beautiful girl and her new large pig pile of babies. Halfy even had two more babies born after this video was made. We thought she was done. But, she proved us wrong. She even farrowed 4 days earlier than we expected her to. Her sisters all made us wait at least three-four weeks longer than expected.


----------



## Carla D (Dec 30, 2018)

Here is some of the fun and frisky goings on with our roughly two month old feeder pigs. Just like most things in my life they settled down once my camera/phone came out to record them. Half Pint, our runt of the bunch has grown to become one mischievous little instigators. He’s not afraid to poke the bear on any of his mates. None of these guys/gals are very friendly. But, they have been coming around some, lately. Our runt Half Pint is in the last couple of seconds of the video. He is such a little corker.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 30, 2018)

Start the video. In the top left corner is your YouTube image, wedding couple kissing. Next to that the title of this video "Feeling frisky today"


Lots of nice looking pigs!


----------



## Carla D (Dec 30, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Start the video. In the top left corner is your YouTube image, wedding couple kissing. Next to that the title of this video "Feeling frisky today"
> 
> 
> Lots of nice looking pigs!


That is hilarious! I didn’t even notice that.


----------



## luvmypets (Dec 30, 2018)

Nothin sweeter than a good sow and her newborn babies, dangit I don't think I can wait until the end of February to see some little piggies at our place. After what happened with your most recent litter, you definitely deserved this surprise! I loved how quiet she was when they started fussing, our sow would probably start talking "is everyone ok" and if they got really loud she might even jump up and give me the death glare


----------



## Carla D (Dec 30, 2018)

luvmypets said:


> Nothin sweeter than a good sow and her newborn babies, dangit I don't think I can wait until the end of February to see some little piggies at our place. After what happened with your most recent litter, you definitely deserved this surprise! I loved how quiet she was when they started fussing, our sow would probably start talking "is everyone ok" and if they got really loud she might even jump up and give me the death glare


Halfy is one of the mellowest pigs we own. The second mellowest oddly enough is our 500# boar, Spot. He’s the father to every baby we’ve had on our farm so far. Every single piglet of his has at least one spot on them. Our next round of babies starts in March with two gilts and continues for a month-month and a half with our experienced sows. Two months after that Halfy will likely have another batch. I’m thinking we will hit the baby lottery in September or October when our youngest girls could be having their first batch of babies. We have 8 of those. We are finally set up so we could have baby pigs every couple of months in 2019. We are either going to buy a bigger property for all of our animals or build a farrowing barn, bunny shed, and a kidding building or area. My husband has a hard time parting with his female pigs. He wants to breed each of them twice before deciding what to do with them. 

We don’t even know what Halfy had in her litter. All we know is she has had at least 4 females and 2 males. Haven’t determined the rest yet. Probably tomorrow when we give them an iron shot. We currently have two really young boars that we may want to breed. But that would leave us with four boars.


----------



## Baymule (Dec 30, 2018)

Those are some adorable baby piggies. They are so shiny and silky looking.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 1, 2019)

We lost Peanut and one of our brand new babies last night. We are suspecting because it was super cold. Almost  5 degrees last night. Another really cold night tonight. I’m headed out there in a moment to see if I can make things a bit more comfortable for our babies in the barn. The only one left from Thelma’s batch is Hamlet.


----------



## luvmypets (Jan 1, 2019)

Carla D said:


> We lost Peanut and one of our brand new babies last night. We are suspecting because it was super cold. Almost  5 degrees last night. Another really cold night tonight. I’m headed out there in a moment to see if I can make things a bit more comfortable for our babies in the barn. The only one left from Thelma’s batch is Hamlet.


Im sorry for your loss. I have a feeling Peanut was much more sick then he may have appeared. Best of luck with hamlet


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Jan 1, 2019)

So sorry for your loss!


----------



## Baymule (Jan 1, 2019)

Five degrees! Bring 'em in the house, put pajamas on 'em and tuck them in bed! BRRRRRRR...…..


----------



## Carla D (Jan 1, 2019)

luvmypets said:


> Im sorry for your loss. I have a feeling Peanut was much more sick then he may have appeared. Best of luck with hamlet


Thank you.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 1, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Five degrees! Bring 'em in the house, put pajamas on 'em and tuck them in bed! BRRRRRRR...…..


I’ve stuffed straw around and on top of Hamlets heated hut.

Halfy looks like she had things under control. She had her babies all huddled in a corner with her keeping them warm. For some reason Jim thought that should be enough for them. Our sows have a tendency to obliterate our heat lamps. We’ve lost three of them this time around. I’m trying to come up with a very sturdy and sow proof heating structure for our babies. We are getting close. Just pretty nervous to risk another smashed heat source. But I think if we cut a small hole in an outer wall we can attach a heated box outside the area entirely. Then the piglets can stay warm and we don’t lose no more lamps to irritated sows.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jan 2, 2019)

Sorry for your loss.  It can be hard when you become attached to the animals.  Regarding providing heating, have you considered mounting heat lamps overhead so that the sows can't reach them?


----------



## farmerjan (Jan 2, 2019)

I am not a fan of farrowing crates;  that said , the idea that they use,  is for the piglets to get out away from the mother and into an area that is heated, then go back to the sow for feeding/nursing.  That is what you need, a separate section that the little ones can get into that has the heat and she can't reach.  Needs to be off the "floor" enough they can scoot under and go "lounge" in the warmer section. Actually can use the crate idea, with the pigs able to go in it, and not the sow.  And yes, it needs to be made so she CAN'T get to the light, or tear it up or tip it over.


----------



## farmerjan (Jan 2, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Sorry for your loss.  It can be hard when you become attached to the animals.  Regarding providing heating, have you considered mounting heat lamps overhead so that the sows can't reach them?



Won't be warm enough for the piglets and too warm for the sow if they are up high enough to where she can't reach it.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jan 2, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

Now you see why I always try to read every post by Miss @farmerjan, as she knows what the heck she is talking about!


----------



## farmerjan (Jan 2, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> Now you see why I always try to read every post by Miss @farmerjan, as she knows what the heck she is talking about!



Only from hard experience


----------



## luvmypets (Jan 2, 2019)

Someone I follow on instagram has a really nice setup in her barn. I messaged her for some pictures, but basically its a piece of wood that blocks off one of the corners. It blocks the heat lamp from the sow and is slightly raised so the babies can get in and not have to be concerned with the sow laying on them. 

Im terrible at describing things, but I will get a picture to you ASAP.


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 2, 2019)

I can picture exactly what you describe @luvmypets just from what you posted. You close off a triangle area, in a corner of the "stall"/area where sow and piglets are. You use a solid material such as heavy plywood that the sow can't break through. You place the heat lamp up over the top of this enclosed area where the sow can't get to it but where it will heat the created triangular area for the piglets. You have this partition high enough off the ground that the piglets can go right under it to enjoy the heat provided. And secured to the stall well enough that the sow can't get her snout under it and rip it off the wall. Very nice idea/plan.


----------



## farmerjan (Jan 2, 2019)

That's the idea @Latestarter , just has to be securely attached to where the sow can't get into it.  If the sides of the stall are wood, then shouldn't be a big problem for attachment.  Put no more than 8-12 inches off the floor or she can get her head under it.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 2, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Sorry for your loss.  It can be hard when you become attached to the animals.  Regarding providing heating, have you considered mounting heat lamps overhead so that the sows can't reach them?


That is a thought.but it would need to be at least 5’ off the ground. One of our sows got really good at putting her front end on 34” wall on the inside of the barn. Would a light that far off the ground provide any heat for the babies below? Especially in a -5 to 10 degree barn. I think we will be lucky to 20+ degree days until spring.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 2, 2019)

Latestarter said:


> I can picture exactly what you describe @luvmypets just from what you posted. You close off a triangle area, in a corner of the "stall"/area where sow and piglets are. You use a solid material such as heavy plywood that the sow can't break through. You place the heat lamp up over the top of this enclosed area where the sow can't get to it but where it will heat the created triangular area for the piglets. You have this partition high enough off the ground that the piglets can go right under it to enjoy the heat provided. And secured to the stall well enough that the sow can't get her snout under it and rip it off the wall. Very nice idea/plan.


I think that is what my husband has in mind to do.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 2, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> I am not a fan of farrowing crates;  that said , the idea that they use,  is for the piglets to get out away from the mother and into an area that is heated, then go back to the sow for feeding/nursing.  That is what you need, a separate section that the little ones can get into that has the heat and she can't reach.  Needs to be off the "floor" enough they can scoot under and go "lounge" in the warmer section. Actually can use the crate idea, with the pigs able to go in it, and not the sow.  And yes, it needs to be made so she CAN'T get to the light, or tear it up or tip it over.


We personally didn’t like using the crates. I’m trying to come up with an idea where the sows can be in their crate for 7-10 days. But then give her the space that she can move around in after that. It could be as simple as using a tractor to lift out one side of the crate out of there. They do serve a very practical purpose. I do understand that. This last spring we used them because we didn’t have any other setup created. This winter/fall we used parts of the crate to try and replicate a safe zone for piglets. Our sows had other ideas. Because we used a dirt floor and not concrete, those old brats decided to excavate and rearrange their areas. It may be that we did things completely wrong, the stalls could have been made a bit smaller.in the spring I do know we will be leveling out the floor in the barn and pouring concrete. That will also make it much easier to clean and sanitize after each use. Personally I’d like to use barn lye and whitewash the walls with every use. The stalls are pretty big. We could possibly use the space of two stalls and make three slightly smaller stalls with a little bit more thought put into them. The concrete floor is a must though. We gotta control the excavating in the stalls. They make “nests” for themselves to lay in. But their babies end up in there underneath the sow and “bye bye baby”


----------



## farmerjan (Jan 2, 2019)

No, you would not have the light 5 ft above the babies.  The light can hang down into the SOW PROOF corner pen to a height of say 2 ft or so above the piglets.  Yes the sides will have to be high enough she can't get over.  The bottom will have to be low enough she can't get her head under.  But if it is sow proof, you hang the light to where the piglets are a comfortable temp.  In a couple weeks they won't need it or you can raise it up higher to where they can't reach it.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 2, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> No, you would not have the light 5 ft above the babies.  The light can hang down into the SOW PROOF corner pen to a height of say 2 ft or so above the piglets.  Yes the sides will have to be high enough she can't get over.  The bottom will have to be low enough she can't get her head under.  But if it is sow proof, you hang the light to where the piglets are a comfortable temp.  In a couple weeks they won't need it or you can raise it up higher to where they can't reach it.


Thank you for explaining that. My head hasn’t been working very well since NYE morning. Some nasty bug has claimed our family at this time.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 2, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> Now you see why I always try to read every post by Miss @farmerjan, as she knows what the heck she is talking about!


Yes @farmerjan is definitely one smart cookie.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 2, 2019)

Carla D said:


> Thank you for explaining that. My head hasn’t been working very well since NYE morning. Some nasty bug has claimed our family at this time.


I hope you and the family get over the bug and feel better soon.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 2, 2019)

Baymule said:


> I hope you and the family get over the bug and feel better soon.


Thank you. I’m pretty sure it’s not influenza. But it’s relentless. It started with my little girl. She’s about 80% herself now. But I’m kinda thinking about not sending her to school until Monday. She doesn’t need to spread this to the kids in her class, because it hasn’t left our house just yet.  Happy New Year @Baymule. Maybe this is a good Oman for us. We might be strong and healthy all year long if we are starting out this sick.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 3, 2019)

Carla D said:


> But I’m kinda thinking about not sending her to school until Monday. She doesn’t need to spread this to the kids in her class, because it hasn’t left our house just yet.



If only all parents and ADULTS were that smart and considerate.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 3, 2019)

We had the crud for a month. Rain and cold didn't help our feelings any. Raining now.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 5, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Hey there Carla, how are you and your family feeling? Sure hope you are over being sick, and all critters are healthy!


I think my little girl is starting to feel a bit better. Not 100%, she’s really winey and crabby which makes me think she’s not quite there yet. Hubby and I are still dealing with intestinal issues, discomfort, and fatigue. I am on the mend, but hubby is about three days behind me. 

Our critters are doing really good. Even a bit foxy because the temperature has been 40+ degrees during the day. Our younger pigs are completely crazy. Our newest piglets are doing so good. Our only conjcern is Halfy is starting to have troubles keeping up with their demand for milk. They are starting to do a lot of exploring and routing around. In a couple of days, when they start kicking up their heals we will let the babies out of their pen and explore a little bit and give halfy have some rest. She is such a great pig and momma. I think the only time she gets up is for corn, water, and duties taking care. Hamlet is pretty bored and lonely. I think we will his supervised time when it comes to let the babies interact with him. 

Our young wethers are doing so well right now. I’ve only been down to feed them twice in the last six days because I was so sick. Hubby doesn’t give them much attention if any. We haven’t let Abigail come to the farm for nearly a week because she had been sick.

Tomorrow we plan on getting my nieces two rabbits. I believe one is a New Zealand buck which is fully intact. He’ll have a home on our farm for as long as he lives.



 
The other is A French Lop female. She also believes she is fully intact to the best of her knowledge. I’d like to breed her and my Heather to the white rabbit we plan on getting tomorrow. She will have a place our little farm for as long as she lives. Can’t really eat my nieces bunnies. Right?


 

Thank you for asking. Hw was your holiday?


----------



## Mini Horses (Jan 6, 2019)

Glad animals are all doing well.


As for the people -- Spray Lysol throughout your house everyday to help kill those "floating" germs.  It helps speed recovery and lessens "sharing".


----------



## Carla D (Jan 7, 2019)

Hi. It’s been a very hectic time since Christmas. I can’t quite remember what all I did between Christmas and New Years. It’s a blur. Our family is starting to recover from our sickness. We did go up north and brought back her two rabbits. I’m really glad we were able to take them for her. They have been really well cared for. But, I can tell that it is time for her to move on. Her life has been complete turmoil since she was born. She is finally living in a quieter, gentler, nonabusive house. She’s living with my brother, her dad. One of her rabbits at Christmas time she told me doesn’t like to be held. I picked her up yesterday and held, pet, talked t her, the rabbit, and she was so content in my arms. My niece is getting a fresh start on life and so are her rabbits. I haven’t given them new names yet to go with their new life yet. But this is the little girl. She has such pretty coloring.


 



 

Here’s the buck. He’s also so friendly and content in his new location.


 

They were city rabbits. We have a lot of noises and commotion at the farm. These two are troupers. The cats don’t phase them, the power tools, tractor, goats and pigs don’t phase them at all. They almost seem entertained by the going on. As son as we get the goats outside we will be building a small rabbitry. We are going to use a nice size, old, wooden, high sided trailer and use that as a temporary goat house. I think they will love it. We are pretty sure that we will be having a very late spring. We haven’t had more than 2-3 inches of snow so far. And we have been having more 35-42 degree days than we are having in the teens. Well probably get dumped on in March and not thaw out until May. We did find a nice place that all three of us like/love. It’s already set up for horses and cattle. But, they had goats too, so probably have that covered too. Our only issue may be whether or not we can get financing. https://www.edinarealty.com/homes-for-sale/e2303-state-road-72-elmwood-wi-54740-4971680  My only complaint is this house is about 2-3 times as big as I’d really like it to be.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 7, 2019)

Rammy said:


> I think its a beatiful house. Being bigger than you need just means you have more elbow room.


Or room to collect junk


----------



## Carla D (Jan 7, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Nice house, .......very big house with stairs to climb....big price tag....yikes......if you can afford it , go for it


It is a big price tag. But this IS about as close to a move in ready farm with 17+ acres, more outbuildings than we need, and fenced up. We could rent out space in one of the pole buildings for storage, animals. The price is really reasonable if not cheap for that type of setup. The farm part of it should cost more than that for this area. And that house would cost $500,000+ if it were just outside of ellsworth. The fact that it is a horse farm with arenas, stalls, paddocks, machine shed, silo, darn near complete setup makes me wonder why it’s so reasonable. There’s newer roof, Electrical, plumbing, outdoor wood burner even. I’m just waiting for my husband t take the next step.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 7, 2019)

Well, you definitely couldn't build all of that infrastructure along with the house for that money.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 7, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> Well, you definitely couldn't build all of that infrastructure along with the house for that money.


You’re right. I emailed the realtor about this property. Something just isn’t right. I don’t know if it’s because it’s that much further from Minneapolis/St. Paul than we currently are, if it’s a cheaper location? But, yes. You can’t build half of the infrastructure for that kind of money. I can’t wait to see what the realtors reply will be.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 7, 2019)

The place looks really nice for you Carla. And at that price, especially since you said it is almost too good to be true, yeah check all the nooks and crannies. Real estate IS location, location, location. Good luck!


----------



## Carla D (Jan 7, 2019)

Bruce said:


> The place looks really nice for you Carla. And at that price, especially since you said it is almost too good to be true, yeah check all the nooks and crannies. Real estate IS location, location, location. Good luck!


I kinda wonder if that’s the case here. But I just don’t think is possible to build the pole shed structures for that price. 200’x100’ that has to be pretty expensive. I can see the house and and old barn and outbuilding for that price. It just doesn’t add up. If we spend more than $40k-50k with a structure on it we would have to know what kind of work we’d need to do first. We don’t have much of a contingency fund most days. A soil test or two might be called for as well. It does look really well maintained, especially the yard and landscape. It’s all really well manicured.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 7, 2019)

You don't suppose they kinda sorta missed a "1" in front of the 250,000? Or is that way out of line price wise for the property?


----------



## Carla D (Jan 7, 2019)

There seems to be a few real estate type people in here. There is even a bloodhound for property person or two in here.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 7, 2019)

Bruce said:


> You don't suppose they kinda sorta missed a "1" in front of the 250,000? Or is that way out of line price wise for the property?


That thought hadn’t crossed my mind. But as I mentally tally things up I do come really close to the million dollar figure. But this has been on the market for 199 days. I would think that type of mistake would have been fixed by now. But two also the same price on four different sites. But, you might be right. Anything horse related is very pricey in this area.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 7, 2019)

In our area the properties less than 10 acres are higher than properties more than 10 acres.  Most of those less than 10 acres are sold to folks that will commute between here and Nashville.  Normally, outbuildings don't figure into the sales price at all. Most farm sales here don't include any $ for buildings other than the home.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 7, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> In our area the properties less than 10 acres are higher than properties more than 10 acres.  Most of those less than 10 acres are sold to folks that will commute between here and Nashville.  Normally, outbuildings don't figure into the sales price at all. Most farm sales here don't include any $ for buildings other than the home.


That’s interesting. Does land value pricing seem high? It’s outrageous here. In housing development it’s tough to find ¼ acre of virgin land for less than $35K. I wish I could figure out why property is so expensive here.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 7, 2019)

That does seem to be the way of it. Small lots already parceled out and with utilities are way more "per acre" than large acreage lots. I guess to an extent the large acreage properties are somewhat distant from "amenities" and a lot of people want everything close by and the lot ready to build on. Supply and demand. Not much in the way of "virgin" land where developments exist.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 7, 2019)

Carla D said:


> That’s interesting. Does land value pricing seem high? It’s outrageous here. In housing development it’s tough to find ¼ acre of virgin land for less than $35K. I wish I could figure out why property is so expensive here.



We bought our place for a little under $35K and the house was listed as zero value.  Farm land here goes for right at $2500 an acre up to 50 acres and then it goes down.


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 8, 2019)

Two thoughts come to mind... One you can check with any realtor to find out. The other, most likely not so easy.
1. The house has been on the market a long time and the seller is anxious to get the place sold. The realtor has lowered the listing price/listed it at an extremely low ball price hoping to drive up interest in hopes of luring multiple potential buyers into a bidding war that will drive the price up. Your realtor can find out the pricing history easily enough. You can also find out if there has been any interest in the form of offers/withdrawals (and why).
2. There are serious underlying issues with the property. Cosmetic/appearance means little. There may be something structurally wrong with the house/termites/water damage/hazmat/contamination/electrical/plumbing/etc.
There is one other possibility, but I didn't initially offer it as it doesn't jive with the 199 day market time... Maybe it's an inheritance that the new owner just wants to unload. If that were the case, I suspect it would have sold very fast. But there are rare cases, and even a blind squirrel will find the occasional nut... <shrug: dunno> <---can't get emojis to load...


----------



## Bruce (Jan 8, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> We bought our place for a little under $35K and the house was listed as zero value.  Farm land here goes for right at $2500 an acre up to 50 acres and then it goes down.


Makes sense. If a very large parcel whoever buys it wants to farm it or have a really large "home place". Get down lower and some developer wants to buy it and cover it with houses. But they don't want a hundred acres. Likely not even 50, more like 10 or 20 depending on how many lots they want to make and what size.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jan 8, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

I highly recommend that you sign a buyer's representation agreement with a real estate agent ASAP.  By signing that agreement, she will then be representing you, not the seller.  She will become a fiduciary, and the legal requirements for a fiduciary are quite strict.  You can ask her about all of the items that would concern you, such as price history, etc.  You will most likely need to have an inspection done at your expense.

You need not pay the real estate agent a fee, although you could.  She will most likely collect her commission from the seller.  She still will be representing you, the buyer.  If you choose not to sign a buyer's representation agreement, then she will represent the seller, as a subagent to the listing agent.  Then she is a fiduciary to the seller.  Except in rare specialized circumstances, a real estate agent _cannot_ be neutral.  By law, she must represent a party in the transaction and is legally bound to put that party's interest first.  If it isn't you, then it will be the seller.

So that is how the real estate business works.  You have a lot to gain by signing a buyer's representation agreement with an agent, and very little to lose.  If you wish, you can terminate the agreement at any time.

Senile Texas Aggie
Licensed Real Estate Agent for the state of Texas


----------



## Carla D (Jan 8, 2019)

These are all very good things to know. I hadn’t even thought about a developer possibly coming in and leveling it all. Buyer representation agreement isn’t anything I’ve heard of before. I still think @Latestarter is right. There has to be something wrong with the place.

I have learned two small things about this property. A big part of it is the location. It’s about 15-20 minutes further than most people would be willing to drive. Most places in Elmwood are really cheap because of that. The other thing I’ve learned is that the sellers have found their dream horse property but need to sell this first. 

The realtor told me there was a showing there this morning and the people want a second tour because they are als interested in it. I did find another little farm in that area as well. It’s about half the size with a much smaller price tag. But, it is much more in our price range. https://matrix.northstarmls.com/Matrix/Public/Portal.aspx?ID=0-2032974647-10#1. So who knows. A bidding war on a property that already pushes our budget is the last thing we want to get involved with.


----------



## Mike CHS (Jan 8, 2019)

You guys are approaching the purchase with some good sense that is nice to see.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 8, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> You guys are approaching the purchase with some good sense that is nice to see.


Thank you.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 11, 2019)

I was thrown a monkey wrench tonight.

This is so darn typical of things that go on at our little circus. I was tending to my rabbits and something caught my eye. Heather was mounting my little doe Clover. Heather was very serious about what she was doing. So I caught her and turned her over. My rabbit heather is a very well endowed little buck named Heath.

We had tried sexing then when I got them. We were pretty positive we had two does. I even tried to see what sexs we had after a couple of weeks of having then. I guess I need to practice my method.

These were intended to be pets. So we either needed two does or two bucks. It didn’t matter. While we have plans to breed some meat and pet rabbits, we weren’t going to jump into it. We were going to research, plan, prepare, and BE READY when we finally started to breed them. I think my husband and I are going to be sexing the other rabbits we have. Can’t assume anymore that they are the sex they are believed to be.

From the little bit I’ve had time to read about breeding rabbits I know we only have 30-31 days until we have more babies. If any bunny aficionados read this, I’m going to need another critter crash course. I know a little bit about rabbits. I’ve had several in the past, as pets. I’ve never bred anything other than pigs to this point. I’m in another situation that I have no clue about.


----------



## greybeard (Jan 12, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> You need not pay the real estate agent a fee, although you could. She will most likely collect her commission from the seller.


Question..
If 'your' (buyer's) real estate agent is different than the seller's agent (the one that listed the property) who pays 'your' agent her commission?


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 12, 2019)

Funny you have this conundrum... as I closed this post after first view, the following picture/site was flashing at the top of the home page:
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/kayes-bunny-journal.34547/page-18#post-473280


----------



## Carla D (Jan 12, 2019)

greybeard said:


> Question..
> If 'your' (buyer's) real estate agent is different than the seller's agent (the one that listed the property) who pays 'your' agent her commission?


I believe we do. At least that’s what happened when we bought our small property up north.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 12, 2019)

Latestarter said:


> Funny you have this conundrum... as I closed this post after first view, the following picture/site was flashing at the top of the home page:
> https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/kayes-bunny-journal.34547/page-18#post-473280



One fly by the seat of your pants conundrum after another. It sure is a good thing my husband is so patient with me and that he loves critters as much as I do. He didn’t even bat an eye last night when I told him we had a Heath and not Heather, and that our little Clover was likely due to have babies in about thirty days.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 12, 2019)

We do have a very good rabbit forum, lots of good information there. Anyway, congrats on the possibility of becoming a bunny grammy!


----------



## Carla D (Jan 12, 2019)

After what I discovered about Heather actuallybeing a boy I decided I’d better check the sex on our other three rabbits. It’s a good thing I did that too. Turns out Clover is also a little buck. I also checked my nieces two rabbits. They were both what she told me they are. We had planned on using the New Zealand as a stud. I should have guessed that he would be neutered. He used to be a classroom pet at my nieces school. Just by comparing the scrotums of all three bucks I think it’s safe to assume he’s fixed. That’s a good thing to know because we could have waited for baby bunnies for a really long time had I not. We did stick Ginger in the same hutch as Heath. We did want to have bunnies available for Easter. We might have some now.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 12, 2019)

greybeard said:


> Question..
> If 'your' (buyer's) real estate agent is different than the seller's agent (the one that listed the property) who pays 'your' agent her commission?


Don't know about anywhere else but here the seller pays the commission. Usually 6% of the sale price. Split between buyer and sellers agents.


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 12, 2019)

I'm not sure on this, but from what I understand, bunnies aren't normally neutered or spayed... It's very costly, difficult, and the rabbit doesn't always survive the procedure... @Bunnylady ? Not to say that yours hasn't been... Just seems a bit unusual, especially in a school environment... Would they really spend the $$ to have it done?


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jan 12, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

Sorry to hijack your thread to discuss real estate when you are discovering that your rabbits had sex changes!



Bruce said:


> Don't know about anywhere else but here the seller pays the commission. Usually 6% of the sale price. Split between buyer and sellers agents.



Yes, that is normally the case.  While the commission need not be 6%, that is the usual and customary fee, with 2% going to the listing agent, 1% going to the listing broker, 2% going to the buyer's agent, and 1% going to the buyer's broker.  While listing agents don't HAVE to split the commission that way, they usually do.  And regardless of how the commission is split, the buyer's agent is a fiduciary for the buyer, not the seller.

We return you to your regularly scheduled program already in progress...


----------



## Carla D (Jan 12, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> Sorry to hijack your thread to discuss real estate when you are discovering that your rabbits had sex changes!
> 
> ...


This is not a problem. Since we are considering buying a small farm ourselves I’m finding this type of information quite useful.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 12, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Carla, when I turn my male over to check him,  he can bring his testicles  up inside him  leaving just "empty"  skin,  you may want to check again... and yes people do get male rabbits fixed...I know a few fixed boys, lol...my boy had better stop spraying or he will be replaced and become stew meat.


I’m hoping this is the case with Oliver. He’s a super sweet and gorgeous bunny. But, being my nieces former pet I don’t feel right about eating him as my husband suggested. That why we wanted to breed him. So he earns his keep. If that makes any sense.

Is there any way for me to tell if he is castrated' short of rechecking him a few more times?


----------



## Bruce (Jan 12, 2019)

Carla D said:


> Is there any way for me to tell if he is castrated' short of rechecking him a few more times?


Put him in with a doe in heat and see what happens. He'll either mount her, is gay or is castrated


----------



## Carla D (Jan 12, 2019)

Rammy said:


>


I don’t know when a doe is in heat yet. Ginger did accept one of my bucks this morning. But, she made him work for it first. Darn tease.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 16, 2019)

This may not be an appropriate place to share this but I’m going to anyways. My middle brother just passed away. I’m having very mixed feelings about the news as well. This is the very same brother that would attack me with a baseball bat after school everyday for a couple of months. He has been in the corrections system since he was 13 years old. He was up for release from prison sometime in the next year or two. I have had nothing but fear for my life and safety and of those who mean the world to me. I had been preparing myself to protect myself and the ones I love most in life at all costs. I hate my brother. But, I have also found it in my heart to not wish him any harm and to find happiness, as long as he stayed far, far out of my life. I know I should feel sad for his loss of life but I don’t. I should feel relieved that he will never cause me or anyone harm ever again. But I don’t. I know I should want to be there for my mom, dad, and brother. Yet I don’t feel like I have any business being around for them as they mourn. I haven’t shed a single tear as of yet. The warden just called my mother about ten minutes ago and explained to her that they had been treating him medically all day. He had a medical emergency and that he crashed and they weren’t able to revive him. We don’t even know what the medical situation was at this point. We will find out more in the morning. I don’t feel anything. Nothing at all. I have no desire to see him one last time or go to his funeral. I’m not sure what my parents will plan for him. I know I have to go for my mom, dad, and baby brothers sake. I have not seen this brother for at least 15 years, probably more than that. He’s 43 years old, spent the last 25-28 years in federal prison for all of the crimes he committed and people he had harmed. Now what?


----------



## Latestarter (Jan 16, 2019)

IMHO...

I have estranged myself from my family for a variety of reasons. I haven't/hadn't spoken to my mother or father since early ~2014 after a major confrontation. My father died in the fall of 2014 from a final fight with cancer. I wasn't there, before, during, or after. My mother is still alive, I haven't spoken to her and doubt I ever will again, unless she initiates the communication with an apology. My youngest brother was the main reason for everything that took place. He died in 2015 from throat cancer. I didn't see him, wasn't there for him, before, during, or after. My middle brother caused his own set of issues and incidents and I broke off communications with him back in 2010. I haven't seen or spoken to him since and don't expect I ever will. My oldest sister drove me away with her actions more than 20 years ago. I will never see or speak to her again, and for all intents and purposes, she doesn't even exist to me. My middle sister and I still communicate, generally once or twice a year at holidays. I have visited with her within the past year, but don't see her often.

The point I'm making here is that you feel the way you do justifiably. You do NOT owe your siblings or your parents anything on your brother's behalf. Their relationship with him was theirs... NOT yours. You have/had no relationship with him for many, many years. IMHO, you should treat it as if you never even knew him. Put the pain from the past back in the past and move ahead.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 16, 2019)

Thank you @Latestarter. He really hasn’t existed in my life for the last 30 years other than to torment me or trigger my ptsd. I do feel for my family. I want to pack my hubby and daughter up and go on a hiatus for a month or so. At least until all of this has been put to rest. Someplace warm and sunny with lots of things to explore, people to meet and watch, and just escape for a while. Texas actually sounds enticing. I have a few friends there that own farms/ranches that I would love to meet.


----------



## Baymule (Jan 17, 2019)

Where else would you share this but with your BYH family? We provide an objective sounding board with none of the family drama. Your brother sounds like someone to stay far, far away from. It is nothing to feel bad about, because you don't want to go to his funeral. Your parents may grieve for him, but you don't have to. If you want to go to support your parents, that is up to you, but don't "guilt" yourself into it. 

Now what? Now you go on with your life, safe from that creepy feeling up your back because you know a predator is out of prison and may have you and your family in his crosshairs. Done. Over. Take a deep breath. Yes, it is appropriate to say a prayer and thank God for your freedom from worry. 

The worst of the worst criminals came from somewhere, someone and have family. They didn't just drop out of the sky. You were unlucky enough to have a brother who drew the criminal card. He was a person that you would have never had any contact with, had he not been your brother. He is gone. You are free. Now go hug that precious little girl.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 17, 2019)

I agree, you have no reason to feel any sadness at his passing. I would go to a funeral only if it is necessary to not cause a rift with the rest of the family that you do care about and they care about you. Talk with your parents and find out if they "need" you to be there. They know the history and may well understand.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 17, 2019)

Thank you to everyone who responded to my post. After a couple of hours of thinking about it I have come to realize a couple of things. 1. My parents may not even have a funeral. Because he was incarcerated most of his life he didn’t really have many friends if any. There really is only the four of us plus my family and my brothers daughter. They may do a cremation and a very small graveside gathering. Let’s hope that’s what they plan on doing.
2. Even if my parents do decide on the entire formal shebang that doesn’t mean I can’t simply go to whatever they have planned. Go to it, give them hugs, say I love you, and leave. 
He has been dead to me since I was a teenager. The only reason I went to the prison to visit him several years ago was out of respect for my mother. She had wanted all of us kids together for some odd reason around Christmas time 15-20 years ago. I obliged her with that request. I’d only been there one other time prior to that. It was so uncomfortable I vowed to never go there again. All I would be doing if I showed up to a formal gathering would be paying my respects to my parents and youngest brother. I may not even need to go to his final gathering if there is one. Thank you for all of your kindness and support. You have no idea how much I appreciate it.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jan 17, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

Sorry, but I am just now reading all of this.  I agree with the others -- do what is best for you.  And also try to think of how you will feel a year from now after you have made your decision to either go or not go.  Will you be glad you didn't go, or will you have regrets?  Will you be glad you went, or will you have regrets?  It may be hard to imagine, but you will think about it after it is done.  But the most important people to think about is you, your husband, and your little girl.  Miss @Baymule gave sound advice -- hug that precious little girl and tell her that you love her.  

Senile texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce (Jan 17, 2019)

Carla D said:


> All I would be doing if I showed up to a formal gathering would be paying my respects to my parents and youngest brother.


----------



## goatgurl (Jan 17, 2019)

some wise folks have given you some good words to mull over.  listen to your heart and do what is right for you and yours.  prayers for peace and guidance


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jan 29, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

Haven't heard from you in awhile and am wondering how you are doing.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Carla D (Jan 29, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> Haven't heard from you in awhile and am wondering how you are doing.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


Hello. It’s been a pretty tough 2-3 weeks. One thing after another around here. I had been thinking I didn’t mind this cold weather of winter. I am learning otherwise. I’ve been in to see the doctor countless times this month. I may have a stress fracture in one small bone in my left hand. So I’ve been wearing a brace when I’m at the farm, moving furniture, things I shouldn’t be doing. Long story short my dr. thinks I’m experiencing a fibromyalgia flare, one that’s different than any I’ve had to this point in time. Needless to say my pain level is the highest it’s ever been. Very likely all because of the cold weather.

We are looking at some really extremely cold temperatures this week with the worst being tomorrow. The high temp being -15F and the low being -35F. My husband isn’t too pleased with me. But, he did give in to my need to get all of our animals in the barn this afternoon and until the temp warms up a bit. We possibly have 2 gilts and 2-3 sows that are likely pregnant. I didn’t think they should be outside for these temps. Their water starts to ice over after I pour it in less than 20 minutes. If they are in the barn their water won’t freeze quite as fast. And all of those bodies in the barn should create a little additional heat for everyone. We were in the super cold today for three hours shifting pigs around. One of our gilts was very obviously shivering. I didn’t know they shivered anytime other than after they farrow. The other gilt, she was in the barn as soon as she was set free and had access to the barn. Even the big sows didn’t chase her out of the barn. She must have been pretty cold. Kinda makes me wonder if I’m too soft where our animals are concerned or is my hubby and FIL not overly concerned about the things like our animals needing water at least three times a day when it’s so blastedly cold outside. They only go out there once a day. Leaving me to take on the responsibility of making sure they have water more than once through out the winter. He didn’t even think it was necessary to bring all of our pigs into the barn. Everyone else already had access of lives in the barn. We even closed an additional door to keep some of the frigid out. I’m ready to u my roots and move at least six hours south of here. I can’t even warm up tonight. 

I do feel pretty out of touch lately. I’ve got a lot of learning to do and a bunch of building as well. We want to raise rabbits, actually hubby does. We also want a mess of chickens for meat and eggs. Gotta learn what I can before spring. I’d also like to get 3-5 more goats for milk and a small amount of breeding. I think I want to do Alpine goats.

How have you been doing lately? Is it pretty cold for you as well? I wonder if this cold is regional or national.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 30, 2019)

The super nasty cold is mostly in the midwest. I don't think you are wrong to get the animals in. You are NOT having normal low temperatures and wind chills.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jan 30, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

It's been cold here but nothing unusual.

I am so sorry you are having to go through so much turmoil.  Having an illness that causes you trouble even in good weather, and causes you more trouble when the weather is horrible, makes for a tough period in your life right now.  I have never raised any farm animals -- I have only had pets in my 66 years on this planet -- so I will have to defer to others as to how care for farm animals.  But my gut says to do whatever you can to save those animals from this brutal cold you are experiencing.  Please know we all care about you and want you and your family to be happy and healthy.     Thanks for providing the update.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Carla D (Jan 30, 2019)

Bruce said:


> The super nasty cold is mostly in the midwest. I don't think you are wrong to get the animals in. You are NOT having normal low temperatures and wind chills.


Even our hairy huge boar was shivering. He’s our only critter that could have possibly tolerated this cold. He does have a nice house that he prefers being outside. They are all in the barn now and have huge piles of straw in all 4 pig pens. The goats have been fluffed, puffed, extra hay, grain, bedding and water. Bunnies are buried in a lot of grass, straw, and hay. Kitties even have special accommodations. They should be comfortable for next 2-3 hours when we go back out there to check on them.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 30, 2019)

I don’t know which I dislike more. My having fibromyalgia or this crazy, blast of arctic temperatures. The one of only two places I can go to escape my fibromyalgia pain, the farm and the cabin is causing me so much pain right now. It feels like I’ve busted a rib behind my chest. I keep pushing through it. It’s most likely fibromyalgia anyways. But there isn’t really any treatment for a broken rib as well. I really need to see some 50-85 degree weather. To warm me up, so I can slow down my work pace, and possibly sit back and enjoy our critters. It’s been so blasted cold that we are working so hard and so fast just to get out of the cold. I feel like I’m going to kill myself because I’m working so hard and fast, and almost always doing the chores alone. Please make this weather warm up. Even 30 degrees would relieve so much of my pressure right now. To top things off our apartment/townhouse is cold as well. The boiler can’t keep up with this cold. It got down to 60 degrees in here overnight. That’s cold even with an electric blanket on high. I’m going to try and rest a bit and warm up before I have to go back out to the farm in a couple of hours. If it’s really cold out where you live please stay warm, safe, and dry. If it’s above freezing where you live please enjoy and/or appreciate it. This is the coldest weather I’ve ever experienced in my 46 years.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 30, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Carla,if you have extra blankets and or comfortors...use a few under your bed sheets for you and your daughter...it really will help hold more heat in. Living through many years of cold  nasty artic blast storms, we would wear sox and hats to bed along with long johns.....this is no time for fashion girlfriend, layer up yourself and daughter and hop in bed together...


That’s funny you said that. I have placed my oversized heating pad under my sheet with the hopes of keeping it in place. I never thought of blankets to keep warm in under my sheets. Great idea.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jan 31, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

All of us here on BYH sincerely hope you and your family can make it through this cold spell and that your pain will lessen.  Maybe others can have more ideas like Miss @B&B Happy goats to help you stay warm.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Carla D (Jan 31, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> All of us here on BYH sincerely hope you and your family can make it through this cold spell and that your pain will lessen.  Maybe others can have more ideas like Miss @B&B Happy goats to help you stay warm.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


I’ll be fine “Fine Texas Aggie” I am going to break down and go to the ER. I really do hate the ER. I’ll let you know what I find out when I can. My DH finally believes that I’m in too much pain to do chores this morning. He volunteered to do all of the chores by himself this morning.


----------



## Bruce (Jan 31, 2019)

Is there an immediate care facility nearby? They can often treat thins as well as an ER and cost a lot less. They don't have to cover major trauma patients, etc.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 31, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Is there an immediate care facility nearby? They can often treat thins as well as an ER and cost a lot less. They don't have to cover major trauma patients, etc.


No. Unfortunately we don’t. I’ve already been to the er. They ultrasound it. They said there wasn’t anything life threatening. Possibly a subtle fracture or some bruised ribs. He said that either of them are going to hurt like heck for a couple of weeks. If no improvement in a week see my primary. I really hate this disease of fibromyalgia. People don’t take me seriously because I don’t scream bloody murder when my injuries are touched. Then my husband usually doesn’t believe how bad my pain is because I continue to push through the pain. My tolerance level for pain is quite high. Then even with all of the pain I continue to push through the pain, because if I don’t nobody is going to get done.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jan 31, 2019)

Gosh, Miss @Carla D, I wish there were something we could do to help.  The best we can do is hope for the best.  Any time you need to share your feelings, please share them with us.  We're here to listen, even when we can't do anything else.


----------



## Carla D (Jan 31, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Gosh, Miss @Carla D, I wish there were something we could do to help.  The best we can do is hope for the best.  Any time you need to share your feelings, please share them with us.  We're here to listen, even when we can't do anything else.


Thank you.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 1, 2019)

You may not feel like it right now, but you are one tough lady. I left you a PM.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 1, 2019)

Baymule said:


> You may not feel like it right now, but you are one tough lady. I left you a PM.


That mean a lot. Thank you.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 17, 2019)

Today has been a fun and interesting day. We are on our way to get these cute little Netherland Dwarfs this very minute. We know that three of them are definitely girls. We will be sexing the other two when we get to their farm.



 We had tried putting our little buck in with the rabbit we had thought we castrated. Oliver our New Zealand buck that I got from my niece is intact. He got so excited that he was mounting our Clover. I took that opportunity to see if Oliver was intact or not. Sure enough, he’s all boy! This is some of the best news. I really wanted to raise New Zealand’s for meat and fur. That’s one less buck we’ll need to buy.

The other fun thing we figured on doing was giving our little girl two baby gilts that we have. He have had to borrow from her piggie bank a couple of times. We plan on her breeding the gilts when the time is right. The money she makes from selling the babies of their future litters will go straight to the bank. We’re thinking she has unlimited potential with her two pigs vs. the $175 we owe her.

There is one more super big thing we are working on. I should be able to share that with everyone midweek or by this Friday.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 17, 2019)

Cute bunnies! Waiting on Friday!


----------



## Bruce (Feb 18, 2019)

How are you going to get the gilts into the piggy bank?


----------



## Carla D (Feb 18, 2019)

Bruce said:


> How are you going to get the gilts into the piggy bank?


 That’s funny. I hadn’t even thought of that.

I have a question for you. Can pigs be fed silage? We found a really good deal on it. Just wondering if it’s something we can use.


----------



## Bruce (Feb 18, 2019)

I hope by "you" you mean people here who know something about pigs!
I Googled and found stuff, here is one link that says you can:
https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/silage-feed-advice-for-pig-farmers


----------



## Carla D (Feb 18, 2019)

Bruce said:


> I hope by "you" you mean people here who know something about pigs!
> I Googled and found stuff, here is one link that says you can:
> https://www.fwi.co.uk/livestock/silage-feed-advice-for-pig-farmers


No, I meant you, you wise old bird. I did post it in a general forum as well.


----------



## Bruce (Feb 18, 2019)

The only thing I know about raising pigs I learned in college in 1977, back when I was a pre-vet major. I've forgotten pretty much all of it.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 19, 2019)

This Saturday may be a very interesting day. We are expecting a guy to come to our farm to buy 6-7 piglets from us.

The really exciting thing to likely happen on Saturday as well is we are expecting our first littler of baby bunnies. Im not 100% certain shes pregnant. Just pretty sure.

Heres pictures of our new babies.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Feb 19, 2019)

Hope you get bunnies!! (and sell pigs!)


----------



## Carla D (Feb 19, 2019)

Me too on both accounts. We have our netherland dwarf bunnies in our warming shack. Im going to move Ginger in there as well so her babies dont freeze, provided she has babies and they survive. I know shes kinda geriatric mom like i was when i had my daughter. I guess well have to wait and see.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 19, 2019)

Rammy said:


> Here piggy, piggy! Good luck with your bunnies!


Im keeping my fingers crossed as far as baby bunnies goes. This could be a really interesting weekend. Ive never had brand new baby bunnies before. Im gonna be doing some quick reading these next couple of days.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 20, 2019)

I have a momma rabbit who is definitely hit the late stage in pregnancy of “When is this going to be over? I’ve had enough.” stage. I’m not sure if it was my imagination tonight. But, she grew noticeably in the last 8 hours. This is what she looked like earlier today.


 

This was tonight.




This is a video of her before I left for the night. Poor Ginger looks miserable.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 20, 2019)

She sure is pretty. She should pull fur before kindling or immediately after, to keep the kits warm. Good luck with the babies!


----------



## Carla D (Feb 20, 2019)

I’ve been fascinated by her coloring since I brought her home. She’s such a snuggle bug normally. She doesn’t mind a couple gentle strokes on her side at this point. But, I try not to disrupt her serenity right now. Her babies should have pretty interesting coloring with Heath being the father.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 20, 2019)

This is how busy she was this morning. I kinda thought she may be nasty, but after watching closely she only had the munchies. She didn’t look miserable at all this morning. That changed in big hurry.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 20, 2019)

The dwarfs were quite busy when I took this video. I was a bit concerned they may be able to get through the bars. They may still yet. But, as long as we keep the door closed they can’t get very far. It’s a good thing the door opens outward.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 21, 2019)

I made rabbit cages. The bottoms were 1/2"x1" and I extended that wire up about 3". The sides, door and top were 1"x2". Before I started extending the bottom wire up the sides, baby kits would wriggle out and fall to the ground. Hint: if you find a cold unresponsive baby out of the nest, out on the wire, just tuck the little ice cube in your bra. Warm up one side, then turn it over and warm the other side. I did barn chores many a day with a bunny or two in my bra. LOL


----------



## Carla D (Feb 21, 2019)

I can’t wait to go out and check on Ginger this morning. But it’s going to have to wait until my hubby gets back from the doctors this morning.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 21, 2019)

Baymule said:


> I made rabbit cages. The bottoms were 1/2"x1" and I extended that wire up about 3". The sides, door and top were 1"x2". Before I started extending the bottom wire up the sides, baby kits would wriggle out and fall to the ground. Hint: if you find a cold unresponsive baby out of the nest, out on the wire, just tuck the little ice cube in your bra. Warm up one side, then turn it over and warm the other side. I did barn chores many a day with a bunny or two in my bra. LOL


This is good to know. 

This is only a thought. Because baby bunnies are almost free, if you think of their mother as a pet. Bunnies are frequently sold really cheap. It got me thinking about how I can charge a bit more for my bunnies than $20-25 each. Do you think selling them for $50 is outrageous if they come with a “starter kit”? Like a small cage, bag of bunny food, and treat. Plus a water bottle and food dish. I need to do some actual number crunching to figure out a respectable price though. I’m also thinking of creating a “starter kit” for goats hen I get around to selling baby goats. I was really caught off guard when I bought my boys. I’d like to ensure their new owner knows how to care for them when they leave our farm. I’m thinking about a small bag of milk replacer, a Pritchard nipple, card with some basic care for babies with things like recommended vaccines, when to have them disbudded, when to worm them for the first time, castration, and signs to look for to keep their baby/babies healthy. Things like that. Instead of charging $5 for a baby buckling or $100 for doelings I could charge something like $75 and $175 for them. I plan on selling Nubians as babies down the road. Does this sound like a good/clever way to sell baby goats?


----------



## Bruce (Feb 21, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Hint: if you find a cold unresponsive baby out of the nest, out on the wire, just tuck the little ice cube in your bra. Warm up one side, then turn it over and warm the other side.


Is there shrinkage?


----------



## Carla D (Feb 21, 2019)

I tried to measure my goats weights tonight. It’s getting tough to measure these guys. They are so wiggly and keep trying to give me kisses. I’m in some really serious trouble when when they get a couple months older. I can still stand up with two goats trying to give me kisses. But I can’t be caught off guard when it happens or I’m on the ground or pushed against the wall. I’m sure they will try and give me kisses for the rest of their lives. Some of my boys have gotten pretty hefty. Others I wish they would put a bit more weight on. They are almost 5 months old to the day. I don’t think I did a very good job measuring them tonight. The two goats I thought weighed the least don’t. The same goes for who I thought were the heaviest. Except for Billy. He’s always been one of my biggest boys.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 21, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Is there shrinkage?


For which? The baby bunny or the boobies? I have to admit, loading one's chest up with several ice cold bunnys is not a lot of fun. About the time they are warming up, ya' gotta turn 'em over and warm the other side.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 21, 2019)

You three crack me up. I needed that tonight.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 23, 2019)

Nope, not yet. I’m starting to think that my taking her out of her hutch and into the warming shack on Tuesday, then swapping her cage with the dwarf later that night, and then moving her again on Wednesday might have stressed her out and made her lose them. But I never seen any signs of birth. She’s still looking thinner now than she did earlier this week. I should have waited until she had given birth and the babies were about a week old before I moved her the second time. I had so many troubles finding a decent size cage for the dwarfs to live in for the next 2-4 weeks in and a space big enough for Ginger to move around in, kindle in, and still have space enough for at least Wednesday or Thursday before I move her back into her hutch. I might try breeding her with my really small buck Clover next time. Ideally I’d like to have a smaller size rabbit to sell as pets. They are easier to cuddle with and possibly find indoor homes for than a larger rabbit.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 4, 2019)

I guess it was bound to happen. I went into the ditch with the biggest and strongest vehicle in our entire family. I’m in deep. It’s going to take a tractor to get me out, a big tractor. I think I’m really lucky I didn’t roll it.

We have a whole lot more snow coming too. Prediction is 10-18” this coming weekend. I am so very done with winter. Make it stop!


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Mar 4, 2019)

Oh noooooo - but so glad you're ok!


----------



## Baymule (Mar 4, 2019)

I wish I could make it stop for you. Hope you get out of the durned ditch and back home safe and sound.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 4, 2019)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Oh noooooo - but so glad you're ok!


Just a little shaken and quite unnerved.


----------



## Baymule (Mar 4, 2019)

Are you out of the ditch yet? Did someone come get you?


----------



## Carla D (Mar 4, 2019)

Baymule said:


> I wish I could make it stop for you. Hope you get out of the durned ditch and back home safe and sound.


I did get out thanks to a guy and a big green tractor. I don’t think I damaged DH’s Red Rocket too badly. I might have scuffed the chrome on his front bumper though. 

I thought I was hurting before I left the house tonight. The trip to the ditch made it worse. I didn’t even brace for an impact, just kept the wheels straight for some reason. I wasn’t even driving obnoxious either. I’m kinda a granny driver in the winter.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 4, 2019)

Carla D said:


> Just a little shaken and quite unnerved.





Baymule said:


> Are you out of the ditch yet? Did someone come get you?


Yes. I’m out and back home. Farm taken care of too.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 4, 2019)

We have some really steep ditches. This one was a fairly modest drop off. Only about 5-6’ deep. Many of the ditches we see on a regular basis are quite deep and steep. Thank goodness I wasn’t driving up north. We have a couple of deadly steep ditches less than a mile from our cabin. Those are honestly 30’ drop offs with the only thing to break a fall is a bunch of thin trees and a small pond/big mud puddle. That ditch scares the heck out of me. There isn’t even any guard rails along the road.


----------



## Baymule (Mar 4, 2019)

What a relief that you are back home and out of the ditch. Glad that you weren't hurt.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 4, 2019)

Thank you. It was scary sitting so high up. I’ve usually been in cars when I visit the ditch. Usually once every 5-7 years. Thank you for your concern. I’m so very done with winter now. I don’t mind the winter, cold, or snow. But by the time March rolls around I’m ready to see it on its way into spring.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 7, 2019)

****WARNING***
*
This is going to be a huge pity party on my behalf. Before you read my words and get too deeply invested in this post I want to clearly state that I am *NOT *in a suicidal state of mind. Not tonight or even this week anyways.

This entire year has been more painful for me than the entire last five years put together. It is only March 6th. I think I’ve had three possibly four days where I’ve woken up and thought to myself “I can handle today without any major struggles.” That was in January. All day today I’ve been questioning the meaning of life and why was I put on this earth where I have so much drive, passion, and compassion for the people around me, my community, and all animals but snakes and crickets. If I’m supposed to use all of my good intentions, kindness, and caring to good use why was I given a body that started to physically breakdown around the age of 35? Dealing with depression and demons is challenging enough most days.  I can handle aches and pains on a daily basis. It’s basically a physical condition on the body which is similar to depression is on a person’s brain, heart, Andy soul.

This last week I’ve struggled to turn door knobs, the round type. I struggle for several minutes to open water bottles. We drink the cheap flimsy bottle types, not the good Dasani or name brand waters that have solid caps and stronger bottles. The cheap ones have always been easier for me to open. Pulling my winter boots on is so tough that I’d wear my tennis shoes in tall rubber boots. But my feet get cold way too quickly that way. Tonight I had a hard time pulling a 3 inch hank or clump of hay from an a bale that already had the strings cut. Reaching into a rabbit cage to pick up a young netherland dwarf bunny for my daughter is getting really tough. Just the simple things on the farm and in live have become so tough. Even open a car door from the inside hurts like heck.

Every doctor I’ve ever gone to for my chronic pain/fibromyalgia has told me to keep busy, stay active, push yourself, keep your mind distracted from the pain, do things you love despite the pain. That’s the easiest way to get through it. I don’t do moderation. It’s a concept I’ve never learned. It’s all or nothing with me. And if you are going to do it, do it right the first time, give it your all, and don’t settle for less than your best. I know I overdid my limits when I was nursing. If I hadn’t, maybe I’d still be working. I went to school to learn furniture repair and restoration. That became too rough on my hands and wrists. I wasn’t at a professional level, but I wasn’t horrible either. We bought a thirty year project when we bought our cabin and chunk of land. I used to be able to haul wood, stack wood, cut it, help my husband gut the cabin room by room, rake the yard, mow the grass with a push mower, do some gardening. I don’t think I can do most of that now either. Then my husband got pigs which I absolutely love to pieces. I helped in so many ways. From being midwife to a sow/gilt and pulling out a stuck piglet, to reviving struggling piglets, giving shots and assisting the vet. I got to the point where it was truly therapeutic having the farm. Not only my pain but for my depression as well. I wanted some animals of my own. So I bought 9 baby bucklings. I lost one of them early into the ordeal. I also had challenge after challenge, even crises but I never gave up on them. They are my absolute favorite part of the farm. Their character, quirks, goofiness, love, affection, and the caring for them is so much fun as well. 

I struggle with the fact that I’ve followed doctors orders. I’ve stayed active. Well actually, I became active after having struggled for a long time just to get out of bed, much less lead a life. I’ve found something that has actually replace my longing to be a nurse in some capacity or another with pure joy and excitement. I’ve worked really hard. Pushed through so much excruciating pain this winter. I’ve asked my doctor for a little help. Primarily physical therapy with an occasional pain medication. Today I asked for a muscle relaxer because even an hour after I sit down and relax I can still feel the muscles in my limbs going nonstop. Sometimes it isn’t visible to my eye, but uncomfortable as heck and super frustrating. I don’t expect my pain to ever go away completely. Honestly, I don’t want it to either. Because it always comes back stronger than when I started taking something for relief. I even broke down and told my doctor that I was using hemp, heat, cold, muscle rubs, TENS unit, rest, push like heck, keeping distracted and I got absolutely no relief from any of that. I just want to be able to do what I love doing, farming, spending time with my daughter, cabin time and renovation, organizing and reorganizing the clutter in my life. I just want to be able to do these things without feeling in agony afterwards. Sometimes the agony will last for a week. 

I am to the point where I don’t want to see another 4-6 month long streak called winter. I can’t take the cold anymore. I’m also ready to move to a state that allows mmj or even recreational use of marijuana. I’m taking herbal supplements now as well. I’ve made some changes in my diet. Not quite as much as I should, but I’m starting and working on it. Doctors can treat other medical conditions why can’t they provide a little relief for the overwhelmingly strong chronic pain when it be unbearable? In fact, every doctor I’ve seen has told me to keep pushing through it. Don’t stop. What’s in motion stays in motion. If you stop you won’t be able to get started again. Activity is good for your pain.  Well hells bells, they tell diabetics to cut the sugar, cut the carbs, blah, blah, blah. Or people with high blood pressure to cut out this, cut out that, on, and on. Most medical conditions people are told to avoid what triggers their symptoms, at minimum cut back as best as you can. So why is chronic pain any different. Why are we told to push through it, don’t stop doing what we’re doing that causes our pain. Most doctors will only treat us as if it all in our heads. They will happily toss you a script for an antidepressant, sometimes two or three of them. Why? Because the pain is all in our heads!!! B!S!. I’m almost to the point where I look forward a freak Accident or act of nature ends my pain. This is no kind of life. Why was I given the desire to help others anyway I possibly can? The drive to do things the right way the first time? Never settle for anything short of your absolute best? Never allow yourself to do anything less than you would expect someone else to do? Why waste all of that on me and give me an old broken down, rusted, beat up body? Why waste so much smarts on the criminals, serial killers, and the narcissistic people in our world? It makes no sense.

Yes, I’m angry as heck right now. Full of self pity. Frustrated beyond my ability to comprehend this. I’m going to bed now. Long day tomorrow. I gotta try and get the hooves of 8 wiry little goats trimmed, loved on, and out for some fresh air if the cold can stay away for a while. Then it’s the rabbit cages. I finally have the space to put them and the cages to put them in. They just need to be repaired and then set up. Maybe I can get these things done before another 10-18” of white crap blows into town this weekend. I’m so tired I’d this snow and cold. I’m ready for some boot sucking, deep, and dirty mud.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Mar 7, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

I "liked" your post, not because I am glad to see you going through such a rough time, but because you were willing to share it with us.

I am no doctor.  I don't even play one on TV.  So take my advice for what it costs you.

You may need to consider a change in location, such as a warmer climate.  You may want to consider a change in careers, one that isn't stressful on the body, such as software development.  That way you could stay indoors where the climate isn't so rough.  I am not sure which states permit medical marijuana, but are some here in the south and southwest.  Maybe that would be a place to consider.  I know nothing of fibromyalgia (sp?), so I cannot offer any advice on coping with it.  But life has a way of being unfair -- the righteous can suffer and the wicked can prosper.

All I can say is that we all care about you and what happens to you.  Please keep telling us how you feel, and we will do our best to help, even if it is only to offer our sympathy at what you are going through.  Hugs.  

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce (Mar 7, 2019)

Is any of this a "flare up" type of thing and will subside? It all sounds so awful.

Some things, like lever handles instead of round knobs can fix some of the issues but little caps on a water bottles don't have such "easy" fixes.

I agree that you need to look to live somewhere warmer if the cold is too much for you. Plenty of cold way up in Wisconsin.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 7, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Is any of this a "flare up" type of thing and will subside? It all sounds so awful.
> 
> Some things, like lever handles instead of round knobs can fix some of the issues but little caps on a water bottles don't have such "easy" fixes.
> 
> I agree that you need to look to live somewhere warmer if the cold is too much for you. Plenty of cold way up in Wisconsin.


Yes, I believe much of this is a HUGE flare up. I’ve never had any flare ups until a year and a half ago. I pretty much told my doctor I don’t have fibromyalgia because I don’t have flare ups. But, she assures me that what I’ve been experiencing this year is most definitely a flare of sorts. I’ve had a fibromyalgia diagnosis since 1995 or so. I’d never experienced a flare until recently. This fibromyalgia has been changing when I was told it’s not a progressive condition which today is what my doctor has been telling me. It is progressive, and what I’ve been experiencing is a flare. The flare should subside, but she can’t tell me when. I’m stuck in this viscous loop. The doctors tell me when it’s too bad for me to handle that I need to go to the ER. I go to the ER and they treat me as a drug seeker. I’ve even seen the words “drug seeking behavior “ written in my chart from doctors in the ER. They tell me I’m wasting their time. Go home. Pain ain’t gonna kill you. 

I do believe need to move to a warmer climate to escape some of this cold triggered business. But right now that’s not an option for my family. Jim lost his mother 8 years ago and his father is getting older and has slowed down tremendously but isn’t ready to throw in the towel yet. I see him failing within the next few years. But, as long as he wants to do farming related work in his retirement my husband isn’t willing to move away, not even for my sake. I completely understand his reasoning and I won’t push that issue. My parents are both slowing down as well. They both live alone. I’d also like to be there when they need help. I have to be really careful about my mental stress level. It was a high stress job with long hours that got me disabled. My mental function is not reliable anymore. I not only get things confused, I can’t recall or retain enough to do something indoors, climate controlled, that requires much accountability or retention of facts, numbers, and such as that. I’m no good at all with a desk job. I could even complete a clerical program at the local technical college. I can’t even type 15 words per minute if my hands, arms, and wrists would permit it. Most indoor jobs aren’t active enough to distract me from the pain or require more from me physically like a factory position would require. I have considered a part time position in a grocery store or a greenhouse/nursery. I’m not above working fast food either. Although I did many, many years doing fast food as laborer and in management. That has a lot of repetition to it. Some of it I might be able to handle. But, over the last several years I’ve developed such intolerance for incompetence, lazy, or could care less type of people. 

I do think if we were able to buy our own small farm and live in the property my husband would be able to do more of the chores for his pigs, maintenance, etc. that would also free up some of my time and energy to smaller and less intense/needy creatures as my rabbits, chickens, a few goats, etc. I would be better able to pace myself throughout the day instead of going to the farm 2-3 times a day, push myself to get everything done in a 1-2 hour window of time. If that makes sense. I want to have a little bit of challenge in my life. Skating through life, doing the bare minimal isn’t something I’m comfortable with. I need some interaction whether it be people or animals. I want to use some of my natural abilities as caring, nurturing, nursing, assisting. If I can’t use some of that I feel useless and worthless. Getting up, out of bed, going through the motions of life isn’t living. At least not for me. I’m sure this is more ramble than sense. I’m sorry for that. I’m just so frustrated right now. I feel like a small thin oak tree that was cut down long before it had the chance to be a “mighty old oak” tree. The more I think about all of this the more I want to curl up in bed and wait for the end of my time.


----------



## Baymule (Mar 7, 2019)

I couldn't deal with all that snow and cold and I don't have fibromyalgia. You are made of some strong stuff. Right now, this is real hard on you. I don't know that I could handle things half as well as you are. Hopefully your pain will be able to subside to tolerable levels for you soon.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 7, 2019)

Baymule said:


> I couldn't deal with all that snow and cold and I don't have fibromyalgia. You are made of some strong stuff. Right now, this is real hard on you. I don't know that I could handle things half as well as you are. Hopefully your pain will be able to subside to tolerable levels for you soon.


Thank you. I sure do too. This has been one heck of a winter for sure.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 8, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Is any of this a "flare up" type of thing and will subside? It all sounds so awful.
> 
> Some things, like lever handles instead of round knobs can fix some of the issues but little caps on a water bottles don't have such "easy" fixes.
> 
> I agree that you need to look to live somewhere warmer if the cold is too much for you. Plenty of cold way up in Wisconsin.


Yes, I believe much of this is a HUGE flare up. I’ve never had any flare ups until a year and a half ago. I pretty much told my doctor I don’t have fibromyalgia because I don’t have flare ups. But, she assures me that what I’ve been experiencing this year is most definitely a flare of sorts. I’ve had a fibromyalgia diagnosis since 1995 or so. I’d never experienced a flare until recently. This fibromyalgia has been changing when I was told it’s not a progressive condition when I was diagnosed. Now doctors are saying it’s a progressive and ever changing condition. Right now I’m so miffed I don’t know what to think, believe, or even expect anymore with this. We 

I’m not asking my doctor for complete relief or even long term medication. But, if this is a flare why won’t they help me manage my flare? For most people a flare lasts them anywhere from a few hours to a week or so. Why is this one hanging on for the better part of two months?


----------



## Baymule (Mar 8, 2019)

I don’t know why I didn’t think of this sooner. Let me call BYH’s resident health specialist. 

@Devonviolet 
@Devonviolet 
@Devonviolet

There now. The call has gone ringing out through the forest, over the rivers, she shall answer shortly. 

DV you might have to back up a few pages. Carla D needs your help.


----------



## Devonviolet (Mar 8, 2019)

I saw Carla’s post a few days ago, but was in the midst of helping Joe’s kids.

Carla and I have talked, via PM, and I made some suggestions. As Carla has said, fibromyalgia is a difficult condition, for which there are no easy answers. Having fibromyalgia myself, I can sure epathize with Carla.    However, I don’t think mine is as bad as her’s. Mine seems to focus mainly on my lower extremities, although I do have all over body pain at times. The cats INSIST upon walking on me, when I am in my recliner. Wherever they put their paws causes me to scream out in pain!

After having surgery on my leg, my fibromyalgia flared big time, being much worse on the right leg, than the left.  Having to wear the walking boot made it a lot worse, due to constant pressure of the walking boot, which I couldn’t take off.  Now that I can take the boot off it isn’t as bad.

There are some non-pharmaceutical recommendations that I can make, for pain.They may or may not work, as each body and condition is different:

1. Arnica Montana - this is a homeopathic remedy, that is taken orally.  It is in the form of a small pellet. Three or four pellets are put under the tongue, and allowed to dissolve.  Without getting into the complex “science” of how it works, basically the essense of the arnica montana plant absorbs through the buccal tissues under the tongue and goes into the blood stream, causing systemic pain relief.

It comes in a variety of strengths and sizes. The strongest (200C) is generally used for acute pain and the next strength down (30C) is used for chronic pain.  I have both strengths on hand. Generally speaking, as you use the 30C on a consistent basis, the hope is that you can eventually decrease frequency and eventually not need it.

When I am having acute pain, I take 4 pellets, wait 15 minutes take 4 pellets, wait 15 minutes and take it again. Then I see how my pain is. Once tha pain is better controlled, I go to scheduling it 3 or 4 times a day. That seems to manage my acute pain.

For chronic pain, I get it under control with the above scheduling and then go to 30C, as scheduled above. For flares, go back to 200C.

The beauty of homeopathic remedies is that there are no side effects, they are not addictive and they do not interract with any pharmaceutical or over the counter medications.

This is where I get my Arnica Montana:

https://www.homeopathyworks.com/arnica-montana-pills/

2. Wild Lettuce (aka Wild Opium) - a natural (legal), non-narcotic “opiod” like non-addicting, plant based pain reliever.

I just learned about this last summer, and for me it really works. From what I can tell, this “weed” only grows in certain areas, and we are blessed that it grows here in Texas. I am working on cultivating it this summer.

I’m not sure exactly how it works, except that there is a bitter, white sap that runs through the leaves and stems of this weed, that grows upwards of 6-8 feet tall.  This plant was and I’m guessing still is used by native Indians, for pain relief.

The only side effects, that I have found are sleepiness (in me) and diarrhea (in DH).

Wild Lettuce can be used orally or topically, and it can be found in four forms:
A. Tea - the dried leaves and stems can be added to boiling water, allowed to seep into a strong tea and sipped. I have only done this once, and a little goes a long way, if allowed to steep for 30+ minutes.
B. Tincture - dried leaves and stems are placed in alcohol. Many people use vodka, which is 90 proof. However, I recently found Everclear, which is a 190+ proof clear alcohol. The benefit of the stronger brew, is that is is more effective at pulling the healing essence out of the plant material.
C. Glycerite - dried leaves and stems are slightly rehydrated with a small amount of water, to allow for better hydration when combined with organic glycerine. This mixture is slightly heated for 8-12 hours, to pull the healing essense out of the plant material.  This is great for generalized pain, headache, and works amazingly well for aggrivating coughs, by placing a teaspoon in the mouth and gradually swallowing. The only issue I, personally, have with this form, is that it has too many carbs, for my low carb diet. So I have gone to the tea form.
D. Thick sap, which is processed using the tea, in No.1 above. I haven’t made this yet, so I can’t say much either way about it. I do plan to make some this summer, after I harvest my first batch of wild lettuce.

3. My Violet’s Lotion is a very effective, topical pain reliever.  I use it often for my fibromyalgia pain, as well as RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome), sore muscles and joints, and the aggrevating itch from mosquito and chigger bites, wasp stings and poison ivy rash. This lotion has 12 very powerful anti-inflammatory essential oils, which not only work on the surface, of the skin but absorb into the skin allowing it to work on joints, as well.

4 I recently started making a modified “Magnesium Oil” with essential oils, which is proving to be amazingly effective. I have been using is on my husband’s back and neck, combined with deep tissue massage, and he has found that over time, his severe pain is greatly reduced.  My daughter got a bottle for Christmas and now swears by it for her lower back pain.  Most recently a friend, who is bent over with severe scoliosis, was trying to hide her pain when she was here for a visit. However, not much gets by me, and I offered to give her a massage, using my Magnesium Oil.  When I was finished working her back over, she stood up straight, and was amazed at how quickly it worked to relieve her pain.  She kept laughing and saying, “I can stand up straight!!!”
**********
In addition to the above natural methods of controlling pain, I also believe that diet can have a big (both positive and negative) impact on fibromyalgia and really chronic pain of many kinds.

I believe that the toxins in our environment can build up in our cells and increase inflammation.  There are way too many forms of inflammation, to go into details here. However, I do believe that by adjusting our diet to avoid processed foods, diet drinks and alcohol, sugar and by drinking lots of pure/filtered water, to flush toxins, we can minimize most, if not all inflammation a great deal.  I believe that sugar and modern day wheat are the worst culprits, in our diets, when it comes to inflammation. I have noticed since I totally cut out sugar and all grains, from my diet, my fibromyalgia and joint pain are a lot better.

Okay, @Baymule. Now you did it!!!  At first I wasn’t sure what I could say, to help Carla. But, you (Bay) have unleased a BOOK, from me this day.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 8, 2019)

Carla D said:


> I go to the ER and they treat me as a drug seeker. I’ve even seen the words “drug seeking behavior “ written in my chart from doctors in the ER. They tell me I’m wasting their time. Go home. Pain ain’t gonna kill you.


They haven't had enough pain. Get enough and you pray to die.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 8, 2019)

Bruce said:


> They haven't had enough pain. Get enough and you pray to die.


That is almost where I’ve been this last month.


----------



## Baymule (Mar 8, 2019)

See? I told you she'd show up. I use the Arnicare, I love the stuff. I use both the pills and the rub on cream, so does my husband. I have even given the pills to the dogs when they got snakebit by copperheads. 

I have her Violet's Lotion too. I don't have fibromyalgia, I have a bad knee, with the cartilage gone. The lotion gives me relief. 

Wait until @Devonviolet gets started on diet and fermented foods. She and I both have Chemical sensitivities, to the point where we can use NO perfumes, cleaning agents, scented laundry detergent, candles, anything with a smell. She has it worse them me, just walking into Lowes with all those products outgassing, knocks her for a loop. Needless to say, we both lead a pure, chemical free life. You might look into that for yourself. 

What cleaning products do you use? Look at the list of chemicals and look them up. Toxins. What about air freshener? Don't get it on your skin, don't ingest it, but suck it into your lungs? Laundry products, dryer sheets that make your clothes smell good, contain benzine-a carcinogen. Your clothes are soaked in chemicals, right next to your skin, to be absorbed. Furniture polish, oven cleaner, the list goes on and on. Start paying attention to what you use. The poison soup that you are exposed to daily could contribute to your flare up.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 14, 2019)

I have made many friends in here the last several months. I’ve even stood my ground when unsolicited advice came my way. There are a couple if not more people who are upset with me. That’s fine. I would stand up for myself again if the same situation were to arise again. I’m going to logout for some time. I don’t know when I’ll be back. Things are picking up on the farm. It has been raining very steadily if not heavy the last 30 hours. Half of our snow is gone now. But we have standing water to deal with now. The water has nowhere to go right now because the ground is still frozen. Back half of our barn has standing water in it now. Not sure where we are going to put everyone, but we go get them on dry land. I’m not sure when I will be logging in again. Take care and good luck to all of you.
Carla


----------



## luvmypets (Mar 14, 2019)

I know this may sound unconventional and not everyone believes in these types of things. So if you dont I can totally respect that. Have you ever considered energy healing, such as reiki or acupuncture. I have found through personal experience, that when I get severe headaches, to the point I feel I am going to throw up, that I need to sit down and meditate and clear all the stagnant energy left in my system.

I have seen cases of people with fibromyalgia that have gone through energy healing and had a significant decrease in their pain. If you have tried everything else and nothing changed it may be worth a shot. 

I wish you the best of luck Carla, and I hope you know just how strong you are.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 14, 2019)

Was it something I said??

Take care of yourself and please do come back.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 14, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Was it something I said??
> 
> Take care of yourself and please do come back.


No it wasn’t anything you said. It was basically two people and they know who they are. They may have realized what they said because I went back and there is nothing in that thread where they posted. I’m going to assume it was taken down Beloit didn’t pertain to the thread. Right now we are in another emergency. It’s been raining heavy for the last day and a half. There is nowhere for it to go. The ground is still quite frozen. We had major piles of snow. Not no more. They are half the size they were three days ago because of all of the rain. We have major flooding going on. The only animals not in immediate danger at the moment are the goats and the rabbits. My sisters-in-law has standing water in her basement which sits about 10 feet higher than the barn. We have three very pregnant pigs that are scheduled to farrow in two weeks with two more behind them two or three see further out. We have nowhere to put them. There isn’t a dry place on the entire farm other thethe mound septic system. There are farmers who are on the brink of losing more than we are. The entire back third of our barn is under water. That’s where we have our youngest pigs. The barn is also the area our teenage and senior pigs go to get out of the weather. This is bad. I think we are going to be forced to find a place off the farm to farrow their litters. The goats would be up to their necks in water had we gotten them out where we planned on putting them.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 14, 2019)

luvmypets said:


> I know this may sound unconventional and not everyone believes in these types of things. So if you dont I can totally respect that. Have you ever considered energy healing, such as reiki or acupuncture. I have found through personal experience, that when I get severe headaches, to the point I feel I am going to throw up, that I need to sit down and meditate and clear all the stagnant energy left in my system.
> 
> I have seen cases of people with fibromyalgia that have gone through energy healing and had a significant decrease in their pain. If you have tried everything else and nothing changed it may be worth a shot.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck Carla, and I hope you know just how strong you are.


I am not opposed to trying other forms of meditation. Unfortunately it’s going to have to wait. Only a few of our animals have dry ground to walk on. We have five pigs to farrow in the next month, with three of the in less than two weeks. We don’t have anywhere dry for them right now.


----------



## luvmypets (Mar 14, 2019)

Carla D said:


> I am not opposed to trying other forms of meditation. Unfortunately it’s going to have to wait. Only a few of our animals have dry ground to walk on. We have five pigs to farrow in the next month, with three of the in less than two weeks. We don’t have anywhere dry for them right now.


Best of luck, do what is important first. The rain has been a pain in the arse these past few months. Hopefully you will be able to find some dry ground for your animals.

Maybe for the pigs you could try some pallets to use as a temporary floor.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 14, 2019)

luvmypets said:


> Best of luck, do what is important first. The rain has been a pain in the arse these past few months. Hopefully you will be able to find some dry ground for your animals.
> 
> Maybe for the pigs you could try some pallets to use as a temporary floor.


That is a thought. We are also tossing out the idea of having a few truckloads of sand hauled out. But we don’t think that’s a possibility with the weight restrictions and ground conditions at the moment. I’m so glad my husband can come up with contingency plans better than I can. At this moment I see us losing our breedstock of pigs. They are already bullying one of them the smaller one to the ground so they can lay on her to stay dry.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 14, 2019)

I’m thinking locusts are the next thing to strike this region.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Mar 14, 2019)

I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  We've been wet/muddy for about 17 years now... or almost that long.  I'm not sure we've really dried up more than a week or so since Hurricane Harvey.  I hope you can figure it out.  Pallets with some boards to cover up the spaces between would be a good temporary fix.  You're probably correct in thinking that you can't get anything hauled in because of the conditions.  Hang in there - this too will pass.  (or so they say)


----------



## Carla D (Mar 14, 2019)

frustratedearthmother said:


> I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  We've been wet/muddy for about 17 years now... or almost that long.  I'm not sure we've really dried up more than a week or so since Hurricane Harvey.  I hope you can figure it out.  Pallets with some boards to cover up the spaces between would be a good temporary fix.  You're probably correct in thinking that you can't get anything hauled in because of the conditions.  Hang in there - this too will pass.  (or so they say)


Harvey? Is that the huge gulcher of a hurricane that hit the eastern coast of Texas wayback then? I had no idea a hurricane could leave lasting effects for that long. I’m so sorry.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Mar 14, 2019)

Late August '17.   Not the direct effect of Harvey that has us still wet.  I was just using that as a time stamp of sorts.    We just can't get a break from the rains.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 14, 2019)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Late August '17.   Not the direct effect of Harvey that has us still wet.  I was just using that as a time stamp of sorts.    We just can't get a break from the rains.


Oh my! On the plus side for you. If it ever dries up in your area I’m betting you’ll have some amazing soil there to have some top notch crops for at least a few years. For some reason when I think of Texas, I see more sandy soil or sand than actual rich soil. But that can’t be the case. Texas is a pretty big producer for some of out grain in the north, I think. It is too bad our government or cities don’t have the means to collect, purify, contain, and use all of this rainfall. Even if it’s to pipeline or transport it to another place in the world facing drought and famine.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 14, 2019)

Your picture of Cowboy and kid is the cutest thing I’ve seen in a really long time. Thank you for sharing it.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Mar 14, 2019)

Yep - Texas is very diverse.  We have clay here... it'll suck the boots right offa your feet, lol.



Carla D said:


> Your picture of Cowboy and kid is the cutest thing I’ve seen in a really long time.


Thanks!  That kid has absolutely NO fear of anything - and Cowboy absolutely loves him!  They are quite the pair, lol.


----------



## greybeard (Mar 15, 2019)

Carla D said:


> I had no idea a hurricane could leave lasting effects for that long. I’m so sorry.


I can attest to the fact that they can and do.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 15, 2019)

All our snow is melting as well and there is concern of the rivers flooding. Thankfully none of that will impact us and the animals in the barn have dry ground. I'm so sorry your flooding is affecting not only you but the animals. I really hope you don't lose any!


----------



## Carla D (Mar 15, 2019)

Bruce said:


> All our snow is melting as well and there is concern of the rivers flooding. Thankfully none of that will impact us and the animals in the barn have dry ground. I'm so sorry your flooding is affecting not only you but the animals. I really hope you don't lose any!


We didn’t lose much. Basically a few bags of whey my husband got free from work. But he can always get more pretty much when ever he wants it. There might be a few nonessentials lost but we haven’t begun worrying about those at this time.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 15, 2019)

I don’t know if anyone remembers the two Nubian goats I had for a couple of days or not. We drive by the farm/homestead they were from every time we go to or from the farm. They lost their nice and big shed. I’m guessing the shed was 50’x70’ maybe longer than that. The roof caved in. They house ALL of their livestock in there at night. 3 cows, 8-10 goats, 5-6 pigs, rabbits, and chickens in there. Miraculously they only lost one or two chickens. They have most of thegoats in the garage and one doe in their basement that is scheduled to kid any day now. Their pigs were almost butcher size. The locker is coming out next week to process them for them. I’m not sure what the plan is with their rabbits. But someone is coming to take the chickens off their hands. They have 2 large brown cows, Jersey or Swiss possibly and one small Highland that they are working on finding temporary placement for. I guess they lost the shed on Tuesday. We must of had a whole lot on our minds this week. We didn’t even notice until today. I stopped to make sure everyone and everything was safe. She then told me she don’t know how she got so lucky and only lost a chicken or two. But, their insurance is going to replace the shed 100%. I’m learning that there are more people that are in their situation and their insurance WONT cover the repairs. This family relies on their animals to provide much of their food. It sounds like they will only be doing goats from now on. Odd considering they were liquidating their goats a few months ago.

We have spent some time at the farm today. We got pigs moved into a more permanent spot. Then some snow was removed and after some digging we have at least some of the water draining away from the barn for now. We are supposed to have high terminology the 50’s all for an entire week. Not next week, but the following week. 7-8 days in a row. It will be nice to have the snow gone. But, I’m not sure we are, or anyone else for that matter are prepared for all of that water. Last night and today may have only been a light wake up call for the rapid thaw we have headed our way. I so hope we don’t see anymore snow until Halloween. That seems to be a popular date here to be getting our first really good snowfall for the season. I had spoke with two different gravel pits today. One of them, their equipment is in a shed with the doors frozen shut and snow up against them, not for long though. They don’t have the means to even sell us bucket loads of sand for us to haul. The other one, there is no way for them to be hauling anything out of their pit at this time. Too many road closures and restrictions for the big trucks. We could come with a trailer and they would happily load it for us. I don’t think we dare drive it down my SILs driveway. That’s taken a hit as well. It’s still passable at the moment. I’m not sure it will survive this thaw however. It’s a waiting game right now. At least the snow is melted off the roof of the barn now. At least we haven’t lost any structures or animals at this time.

There are a couple of really rundown farms between our residence and the farm. I think the owners of at least one of them, the poorest one, relies on their farm for survival. I’m worried about him and his animals. They are pretty lightweight. Not starving yet, but light. I hope he can survive this spell. We’ve never stopped and visited with him. But he always has a worn out smile and a wave for us when we see him on our drives by.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 16, 2019)

I think we are one of the _*LUCKIER *_ones in our area of the state and region this spring. It has been unbelievably stressful for our family this winter possibly into spring. We haven’t lost anything more than time and energy at this point. We are far from being out of the woods right now. We haven’t lost any life or structures yet. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen. But, if things were to go from really bad to complete devastation, we would be shattered. But, we are in a better position to start all over from the ground up than many people around us are. It would take at least a couple of years to replace what we could lose if we did lose everything. But honestly, we don’t rely on our animals, crops, machinery to support our livelihood. There are people in our area who have lost the roof of their primary structure, lost livestock and their insurance company isn’t going to replace them for one reason or another. I haven’t heard of this happening yet, but I know there are going to be people that lose their homes and farm families losing their entire farm to Mother Nature before things clear up and dry out in this area. If I had to guess I’d say only 5-8% of those people have flood insurance. I know everyone and everywhere is susceptible to natural disasters. Ellsworth is on the highest point of the county. This town was built on a rocky bluff in 1855. We were named after the first union officer was killed in the civil war. It became a significant point during the civil war. Anyways, most people don’t equate flooding and Ellsworth in the same equation. Therefore most people here don’t have flood insurance. There is going to be some significant devastation this spring. Even if we lost absolutely everything out at the farm replacing the stuff would equal close to what a brand new, plain Jane, no bells and whistles Dodge Ram 1500 does. It would sting really badly, but we wouldn’t bleed to death. So,with all of that said, we are one of the _*LUCKIER*_ folks around here. It time to check on our neighbors and help where we can. The water rose a lot over the last 8-9 hours. Only daylight will tell us what needs to be taken care of next.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 16, 2019)

Oh my, the devastation. In hindsight is there anything that could have been done to save the shed? How old was it? It isn't uncommon here for people with old barns to be warned they need to rake or shovel  the roofs to keep them from collapsing under a predicted heavy snowfall. I guess none of us not in flood plains think about the possibility of flooding unless we are close to a river. I hope for the best for all those affected.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 16, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Oh my, the devastation. In hindsight is there anything that could have been done to save the shed? How old was it? It isn't uncommon here for people with old barns to be warned they need to rake or shovel  the roofs to keep them from collapsing under a predicted heavy snowfall. I guess none of us not in flood plains think about the possibility of flooding unless we are close to a river. I hope for the best for all those affected.


I don’t know how old the shed was. It may have been 20 years old. I don’t really know.we were really worried about Becky’s she’d as well. Fortunately it is cleared now. But it had looked like this for a few weeks.


I’ll try to snap a picture of their shed when I drive by in a little bit. I’m pretty sure that clearing their roof of the snow load they could have saved theirs. I’m really glad their insurance plans on replacing theirs though. We’ve also had several fires, house and barn this last couple of weeks. They are also blaming them on the huge snowfall as well. That does make sense. Electricity and snow don’t mix very well. Many power lines have needed to be tightened. The electric company has been quite busy lately.
  

I wonder how our cabin is fairing right now. That is in a low spot.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 16, 2019)

You sure have a lot of drifted snow! Hard to tell from the pictures but it looks like the shed's roof pitch wasn't very steep. I've been lucky so far with my ancient barns. The pitch is pretty steep and the wind blows so hard that a lot of the time the snow mostly blows off the roof as it falls.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 16, 2019)

Pitch around here is typically 4/12 or 6/12 around here. I have no clue if that’s considered steep or not. I’ve often thought that roofs here aren’t steep enough on pole sheds, not with our snowfall. Here’s a better picture of what’s left of their shed. The roof on the shed looks pretty steep though. Steeper than ours. I’m trying to figure out how long it is. If you look at the side of that shed. Parts of the roof poked through the sides. Could those be rafters or support beams? How far are those usually apart. They didn’t have a loft. Just open trusses.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 18, 2019)

Oh my. Not sure what those boards are coming out so far down the building but they are all about the same level. Would be interesting to see the inside. MAYBE if they are prefab trusses it collapsed first to the side we can't see pulling the trusses down inside the top plates and then shifted down and out such that the trusses pierced the sheathing? Or maybe they pulled back just enough to come off the top plate (which they should have been fastened to) then slid down the side? It does look like there might be a "tear" above each one. Maybe there is a horizontal board running the length of the building that stopped the slide and that is why they are all about the same level.

I'm guessing my barn roof is about an 8:12, maybe 7:12. Our old house was 14:12.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 18, 2019)

I did kinda wonder if it wasn’t something like that. I don’t think there is anything metal in our pole shed. To me those look like steel that’s poking out of the sides. I did zoom in on the image. As odd as this might be, I think those stakes were punctured through at seams in the siding. It looks like there is separation above and below it. That’s what I find quite odd. I think there is a cross brace half way down the walls in the shed we use. I wonder if that could possibly be strong enough to stop a falling roof at that place in the wall. I wonder how wide a piece sheet metal siding is. It looks like there are 10 or 11 equal size sections. I think the sections are about 8’ on the shed we use. That would make this shed 80’ or 88’ long. That’s a pretty big shed. I wish I knew more about construction or building assembly.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 19, 2019)

And figure out what was done wrong on theirs so you can see if it was done similarly on yours 

Yeah the separation both above and below is why I originally thought maybe they punched through but since the separation seems to go all the way to the top, I wondered if the beams had been shoved down through it.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 19, 2019)

Wisconsin has been declared to be in a State of emergency by the governor.

We got our pre-approval, finally. Now we need to find a place.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 19, 2019)

Bad in Nebraska too.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 19, 2019)

Yeah, I don’t think Wisconsin is the only one hit hard this spring. Colorado, Nebraska, West Virginia have been hit hard too, I think. I suspect there are HUGE pockets all around the country are suffering as well. I hadn’t even thought about this aspect. But, I’ve seen people mentioning their concerns over losing established crops not coming up. I’m thinking it was the grasses, hays, but I thought I heard something about bean and wheat or oats as well. But, I have no clue abcrops and what might be perennials. I don’t know how much it costs to plant a large field. But, if it’s a perennial and can be cut more than once a year I’m thinking there has to be a huge financial loss. Not only in the seed but the multiple harvests or cuttings lost could likely add up really fast. Especially if it’s hay or alfalfa. Even cheap years, a small bale can cost $5-7/each. That’s gold.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 19, 2019)

I can imagine that a really flooded field would take quite a long time to dry out. And then replant, maybe no hay crop for the year. That would sure put the pinch on a farmers wallet.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 21, 2019)

We have some new members in our little herd. As of today they are between 1.5-3 days old. These babies want to be held more than they want to eat. A couple of these babies seek out attention and snuggle right into my arms. Zeus wanted my attention even before I picked him out of his little condo.

 Zeus, Nubian buckling
 Luna, baby girl
  Gypsy, baby girl
 Galaxy, baby girl
 Thor, my other little boy
 Sugar, baby girl
 Candy, baby girl
  Star, baby girl


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Mar 21, 2019)

Wow! Lots more goats! Looks like a variety of breeds. Love it! You’ll definitely fall in love with the Lamanchas!


----------



## Carla D (Mar 21, 2019)

Wehner Homestead said:


> Wow! Lots more goats! Looks like a variety of breeds. Love it! You’ll definitely fall in love with the Lamanchas!


I already have. What I can’t get over is how dainty and feminine the baby girls are. Only a couple are a bit aloof. But, I also think they may two of the youngest ones. I was pretty surprised that 5 of them passed meconium either on the way home of in their new home. I was expecting the doelings to be a month old. The guy told me they hang onto their girls for about a month to see if they want to keep them. I wouldn’t be surprised if all of the babies were only 24 hours old or less, except for Zeus, he’s much bigger, more stable on his feet, and pretty attention hungry. I wasn’t sure I would be so fond of the Lamanchas. It’s the ears thing. But, they were the easiest for me to select from. From the people in here who have raised Lamanchas they are all so smitten and in love with them. I can see why.


----------



## Carla D (Mar 22, 2019)

We had another baby born on the farm over. My rabbit Ginger had one baby. He was about three times the size I expected a kit to be. She also delivered 7 days early. I’m not sure if I should expect more in about a week or not. I’m thinking she is probably done. Here’s a picture of the little guy. He was not alive when I found him.


----------



## Bruce (Mar 22, 2019)

dare I ask if it is alive?


----------



## Carla D (Mar 22, 2019)

Bruce said:


> dare I ask if it is alive?


Oops, no he’s not. When I got to the farm this morning he was already really, really cold, and quite stiff. I maybe should have tried to warm him up, but because he was as stiff as he was I thought it was too late to even try.

He’s the size of two or three kits, isn’t he?


----------



## Carla D (Mar 31, 2019)

We have three new babies on our farm tonight. One of our two pregnant gilts farrowed today. She had five total, that we know of. When we got to the barn this morning she was in the process of polishing off her first born which had still been in the sac. I never got to see that one. She had one black and white boy that was stillborn. But she also had three of the reddest piglets I’ve ever seen. Two girls that were a bit small, and the third was a good sized boy. Midnight Special did struggle a little bit, but she is a model momma. She’s so gentle with them and very cautious when she moves around. I’m sure DH will give her at least one more chance at motherhood.
 

Our new baby goats are growing at a pretty good pace. At 11 days of age they are ranging from 7.6-11.6#. The lightest one had 1.5 days where she didn’t eat very well. Coccidiosis. They are all being treated for that at the moment. But, Candy is now one of my biggest eaters. She should be caught up weight wise in a very short period of time. They were all disbudded on Friday. That went really well. The babies didn’t hardly make a peep. The vet gave them a nerve block at the bud site. That hadn’t slowed them down one bit. Tonight I introduced them to Timothy grass. That made them so frisky.

We have yet to make an offer on a home. We were a day too slow in making an offer on three places. Only time will tell where we end up moving to.

Our big goats are doing so well. The vet said they looked quite tasty. I haven’t measured them in a while. But I’m thinking they must all be at or around the 100# mark. That seems pretty big for six month old wethers. But, they are looking so nice and shiny, frisky, and loving the outside. I take them out in the morning and bring them back into the barn at night. With all of the craziness lately we haven’t made them their permanent shelter yet. We will likely wait until we are moved into our next place. But the plan is to build a quick lean to tomorrow for them. I want to bring the babies outside as well on the warmer days. It has been quite cold the last three days for some reason.


----------



## Carla D (Apr 17, 2019)

I finally came to the decision to sell five or six of my wethers. It’s a decision I’ve been struggling with. I was almost ready to be ok with the decision and choose to believe they were either being used as companion animals, pets, or somewhere they could live. But I had someone ask me if we had a butcher on site. He wanted to buy the six pigs and my goats that we have listed for sale and have them done on site. I didn’t shut the door on him, but I’m struggling really hard with this. I have been told by a few of the seasoned goat people they would rather put a good goat in the freezer than wonder what kind of life they are leading. I’m desperately struggling to adopt that philosophy. I was really hoping they could live out a great life with someone else. I think I could be ok if they were also put in someone else’s freezer. But I’m struggling with them being rendered on our site. Please tell me this will get easier. In the future, I plan on selling my Lamancha and Nubians once they are weaned or a couple of weeks old so I don’t get too attached to them. But my boys and I have been through some really trying times together. I have come to the realization that keeping only two, possibly three is in our best interest and theirs. They could easily be kept with my two bucks or in with the does and young goats.

I went out on a limb and did something really crazy two days ago. I had both the big guys who are almost seven months old and roughly 100# and my almost four week old babies running loose yet closely supervised run and jump around on a nice pile of large logs and an almost green but wet area together. I was so surprised at how gentle the big guys were with the babies. They had so much fun running, climbing, and playing together. But honestly they are taking up too much real estate and feed for being strictly pets. I can almost justify keeping two possibly three of them. We did buy a house. It’s in town. So our animals are going to be at my SIL’s farm for another couple of years. Space is running short so we need to maximize our use of space as best as possible. We have 35 piglets all less than three weeks old and one more sow to farrow. We are even getting rid of our monster boar and basically all of our pigs except our six proven sows and our one year old Hereford boar. We have 45-50 pigs of various sizes and ages that are or will be for sale now or the next month or so.


----------



## Mike CHS (Apr 18, 2019)

We will sell and take animals to a butcher for processing but we don't allow it to be done on our place.  To us it's more a matter of liability and disposing of the offal that we aren't set up for.  Our butcher is USDA certified and there is no question of problems with handling the animals.


----------



## Carla D (Apr 18, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> We will sell and take animals to a butcher for processing but we don't allow it to be done on our place.  To us it's more a matter of liability and disposing of the offal that we aren't set up for.  Our butcher is USDA certified and there is no question of problems with handling the animals.


Our local meat locker will come out and render them for a fee and dispose of the unwanted/waste. I could have that done. I’m pretty sure I would have my husband there. I don’t think I could be present for their killing and processing.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 18, 2019)

I’m going to start with a general disclaimer: I realize that you are fairly new to Livestock and accepting that sometimes ones that start out as pets need to be culled for one reason or another. I also want to acknowledge that these are your “babies.” You’ve spoiled them and insured that they thrived. 

-You are correct in that processing wethers is often much more humane than some type of pet setting. Being culled as promptly as possible upon the new owner taking possession also further insures neglect has less opportunity to occur. It is the same with steers and barrows.
-Our process is to sell animals on the hoof by the whole or half. We sell cattle, pigs, and the occasional goat. We are paid based on weight upon arrival at the butchering facility and we do the transport to the facility. Our buyers do their own cutting order and pay for the processing to the butcher. We get paid market process for weight on the hoof. The buyers are then responsible for picking up the packaged meat from the processor.
-In my experience, I couldn’t be there for any of the killing. If the animal is suffering or my family is starving, I’ll step up and I have in the case of suffering. I’ve developed quite the attachment to some that we’ve sent to be butchered. Often I have to keep my heart out of culling decisions and focus on what makes business and financial sense. I give them a good life while I can. They have one bad day.  
-As far as killing on the farm, yes someone needs to be there. I don’t think that it should be you. Some other pieces to consider here is whether or not your husband has the ability to be present and endure the process for the amount of time that it takes. Also, even if the butcher takes  any waste, there is still likely to be a bloody mess. Can you and your daughter cope with that when you return to the farm? I’m not trying to be gross, I’m trying to think of every possibility. Seeing their empty pens will be hard enough without seeing blood everywhere because it was too difficult to remove all of the evidence. 
-Why does this buyer insist that your property be used? Why can’t the animals be taken to a butchering facility? If he doesn’t agree to your terms, another buyer will come along. Also, if he insists on using the farm and you are agreeable, make sure he is footing the bill for ALL costs incurred so you don’t get stuck with some crazy high charge for several animals being processed, a per mile travel charge, and a portable location fee. 
-Saying goodbye isn’t easy but knowing that they won’t experience further suffering will outweigh the rest. You’ll come to focus on the good times and not the goodbye. Allow yourself to cry. It’s perfectly okay! You may even be in a funk for a day or two. That’s okay too. This is something new and you have to wrap your head around it.


----------



## Carla D (Apr 18, 2019)

Wehner Homestead said:


> I’m going to start with a general disclaimer: I realize that you are fairly new to Livestock and accepting that sometimes ones that start out as pets need to be culled for one reason or another. I also want to acknowledge that these are your “babies.” You’ve spoiled them and insured that they thrived.
> 
> -You are correct in that processing wethers is often much more humane than some type of pet setting. Being culled as promptly as possible upon the new owner taking possession also further insures neglect has less opportunity to occur. It is the same with steers and barrows.
> -Our process is to sell animals on the hoof by the whole or half. We sell cattle, pigs, and the occasional goat. We are paid based on weight upon arrival at the butchering facility and we do the transport to the facility. Our buyers do their own cutting order and pay for the processing to the butcher. We get paid market process for weight on the hoof. The buyers are then responsible for picking up the packaged meat from the processor.
> ...


@Wehner Homestead. I do so truly appreciate your response. You had thought about it before your reply. You do raise a few really good and thought provoking questions. It is going to be extremely difficult to explain to Abigail what happened to them and that she won’t ever see them again. I think I’ll have trouble coming to terms with that myself, much less expect my 4 year old to understand and accept it. My husband does pretty good when they/renderer comes and culls pigs. But, they clean up and take away the mess. They aren’t sitting at the farm cutting them into manageable sizes  for transport either. The rendering place gets everything but the blood off the ground. But I’m sure my hubs would either rake it and scatter the blood stain or cover it with sand if a good hosing doesn’t wash it away. He’s really good about taking mine and Abigails feelings at the forefront. Being he had done time in combat he is able to “do what needs to be done and walk away emotionally”. I envy that about him.

This buyer apparently lives in the city and is used to processing his own meat. But being from the city he likely doesn’t have a place to do it. They are listed as butcher pigs and goats for sale. He might do one goat one pig or two pigs. I believe he’s either Asian or prefers to eat Asian cuisine. Our renderer can’t come out until June to cull and clean up any critters on the farm. I’m not really sure how this will play out. I think my husband is willing to work with him on it to figure out how they want to do it. All I honestly know is neither Abigail nor myself will be present when things happen if they don’t leave the farm living and breathing. I’m pretty sure I’d rather my wethers be butchered at the farm or immediately after leaving the farm. I don’t want to wonder what happened to them or about their living conditions. I don’t plan on selling many goats in the future that are over a month or two. I plan on keeping them pure but not necessarily registered in hopes that a hobby farm or small operation buys them for breeding purposes or for milking or companion animal. That might be a bit naive on my part. But, if I have to come to a different realization, I’ll just have to do that. My only reason to breed any goats is to milk the does. I’m I should have at least a year to figure that part of the plan out.

I know you aren’t the breeder I bought my babies from. I had asked if they were purebred once, but I don’t remember what he said. I know he raises a few different breeds of dairy goat, Nubian, Saanen, Toggenburg, Lamancha. He also mentioned something about if I were to crossbreed any goat with a Lamancha they would always have small ears as Lamancha ears are a dominant trait. I think that’s what he said. It doesn’t really matter if this little buck is pure Lamancha or not. But, I’m state think he must has some Toggenburg in him because of his color and markings. What do you think?



 
Toggenburg/Lamancha cross or Lamancha? Can Lamancha have these markings? I know Lamanchas can be nearly any color. The markings seem too prominent and similar for me to think he doesn’t have at least a little Toggenburg in him.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 18, 2019)

I will say that my children 7,5,3 have some idea of what happens. They understand that some animals go to market and some go to butcher. They also understand that we eat some of them. They have a harder time with certain animals that they get attached to also. Others that are a pain, they are glad to see them go. 

I would be honest but only provide a few specifics if you share with Abigail. Something along the lines of (we believe in God and that our animals have souls and will be in heaven to so change according to your beliefs) we can’t keep every animal born here and some we are able to sell to others as pets but some will become food. (Insert name/description) is being sold. He/she can’t stay on the farm any longer and we need to say goodbye.


----------



## Southern by choice (Apr 18, 2019)

He is a cross because he doesn't have true gopher ears, he has elf ears.
...and he is a cutie!

As far as children and farm life- it is what you make it. My children and most of my friends that have children grow up understanding where their food comes from and that is a good thing. These same children love on their animals, care for them, cry when something gets taken by a predator, is injured, or dies from an accident or illness. They have compassion and they learn that. Come slaughter day they are there and are included. They are thankful for food on the table and know they gave them a good life. With our goats we take them to the processor because it is more time efficient for us and we get the cuts we want. It is a great option for them to pay on the hoof, then you transport to processor and they pick up and pay the fee.
This is one of the boxes we got back. We had most of the meat ground.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 18, 2019)

As far as breeding, Lamancha ears can be dominant but only affect the length of the ear. (I think I’m explaining this correctly. @Southern by choice and @Goat Whisperer are more knowledgeable and I hope one of them can weigh in.) Most first generation crosses have a medium length ear that is partially erect. The colors do vary that much and the facial stripes are almost trademark for Lamanchas!


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 18, 2019)

Lol! @Southern by choice was posting at the same time!


----------



## Southern by choice (Apr 18, 2019)

ear chart

Gopher is a true tight ear with no cartilage ("no ear")
Elf extends with cartilage (like your guy)
Erect is a full ear (like Alpine/Togg)
So if you breed him to an erect eared goat- you have the probability of 50%elf 50%erect


----------



## Carla D (Apr 19, 2019)

One more breed/crossbreed question. Do you think our little gal Sugar could be part Saanen? I’m sure the other six could be pure but probably not. I’m also really surprised that most of the girls have pretty prominent bags. I noticed them at about two weeks. Was I blind before? I didn’t expect to see them develop for a few months. I couldn’t find anything about udders or mammary glands in baby goats.

 






Southern by choice said:


> He is a cross because he doesn't have true gopher ears, he has elf ears.
> ...and he is a cutie!
> 
> As far as children and farm life- it is what you make it. My children and most of my friends that have children grow up understanding where their food comes from and that is a good thing. These same children love on their animals, care for them, cry when something gets taken by a predator, is injured, or dies from an accident or illness. They have compassion and they learn that. Come slaughter day they are there and are included. They are thankful for food on the table and know they gave them a good life. With our goats we take them to the processor because it is more time efficient for us and we get the cuts we want. It is a great option for them to pay on the hoof, then you transport to processor and they pick up and pay the fee.
> ...


That’s an impressive box of meat.


----------



## Carla D (Apr 19, 2019)

I don’t think I have any gopher ears. Candy, the lightest one has the shortest ears, but I think they are elf as well.
Candy


 

Gypsy


 

Thor


 

My Lamanchas are so sweet, mellow, and pretty quiet unless you’re late with their bottles. They melt into my chest or arms when I’m feeding them. If I ever buy more goats, they will be Lamancha.


----------



## Carla D (Apr 19, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> He is a cross because he doesn't have true gopher ears, he has elf ears.
> ...and he is a cutie!
> 
> As far as children and farm life- it is what you make it. My children and most of my friends that have children grow up understanding where their food comes from and that is a good thing. These same children love on their animals, care for them, cry when something gets taken by a predator, is injured, or dies from an accident or illness. They have compassion and they learn that. Come slaughter day they are there and are included. They are thankful for food on the table and know they gave them a good life. With our goats we take them to the processor because it is more time efficient for us and we get the cuts we want. It is a great option for them to pay on the hoof, then you transport to processor and they pick up and pay the fee.
> ...


“Pay on the hoof”, is that actual live weight after being on a scale?


----------



## Carla D (Apr 19, 2019)

Wehner Homestead said:


> I will say that my children 7,5,3 have some idea of what happens. They understand that some animals go to market and some go to butcher. They also understand that we eat some of them. They have a harder time with certain animals that they get attached to also. Others that are a pain, they are glad to see them go.
> 
> I would be honest but only provide a few specifics if you share with Abigail. Something along the lines of (we believe in God and that our animals have souls and will be in heaven to so change according to your beliefs) we can’t keep every animal born here and some we are able to sell to others as pets but some will become food. (Insert name/description) is being sold. He/she can’t stay on the farm any longer and we need to say goodbye.


This is really good to know. I don’t think there are enough children that know about the life cycle of animals much less than farm animals and where their protein comes from. Meat, milk, eggs, cheese. My daughter is going to know, but I didn’t want to teach all of it at once. She’s very familiar will stillborn, sick, and dying or dead baby pigs. We have a few each season. I guess she may not be too young about butchering of animals. Thank you to both of you for sharing about your children. That’s a big help.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 19, 2019)

Carla D said:


> “Pay on the hoof”, is that actual live weight after being on a scale?



Yes. It’s live weight. 

Some places use hanging weight (skinned, blood drained, innards gone, extremities removed, basically the main muscling and connective tissue.) The facility has to be equipped to do this.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 19, 2019)

I love my Lamanchas! Their personality is amazing. Several of my Nigerians...not so much. My Boers and Boer/Kikos weren’t near as social either.


----------



## Carla D (Apr 19, 2019)

Wehner Homestead said:


> Yes. It’s live weight.
> 
> Some places use hanging weight (skinned, blood drained, innards gone, extremities removed, basically the main muscling and connective tissue.) The facility has to be equipped to do this.


Thank you for the explanation. We use hanging weight with the locker here in town.


----------



## Carla D (Apr 20, 2019)

I sold the six wethers I was willing to sell. Today wasn’t tough. They went to a small farm with several different animals. The guy was such an animal lover that he pet every little critter that was within his reach including our farm cats. He was so gentle. Their little farm has chickens, goats, Great Pyrenees, couple cows, cats and pigs. I feel good about where they went. Despite them being from a different culture I think they will be very well cared for and loved as I would hope they’d be. I’m not fooling myself, they may get eaten eventually but they are going to have a really good life.

The two that we kept were acting very differently after the rest left. They were breathing quite heavy and almost panting. All of our goats big and small were loose outside and playing together for about an hour. They all played really well together. Tanner and Jacks behavior changed slightly. They were rearing up and gently butting with a couple of the little ones. I’m not sure if they were actually playing or warning the little ones. Tanner actually grabbed the ear of a couple of little goats. I’m not sure if this change in behavior was stress related to their playmates leaving the farm or not. Their heavy breathing and panting may have been stress related or exertion related. They don’t usually get that much time and space to run and jump around in. I do know one thing. I wont be letting all ten to run around together until I’m sure Tanner and Jack have adjusted to being a smaller group.

I’m not so sure how we will all feel in the morning when we go to the farm and do chores and cares. It’s going to be really strange only having two big guys in that pen. Everything went really smoothly today. I wrangled the babies back into their pen and my husband and the couple put the big guys in the trailer. Not how I had planned, but this might have been easier on me and the boys because there was no sadness or apprehension at the time of their departure. This couple had the most impressive trailer to haul their livestock home in. It was actually an enclosed utility trailer, nothing huge. But I had a nice back window on the door. And it had been retrofitted with vents not only for circulation but it has a couple in the front corners so they would be getting a good flow of fresh air on their trip. They had it professionally created when they decided to do some hobby farming. It looked easy to clean, it had a ramp for some animals, amazing airflow and it had a skylight on it as well. It was a little trailer to be envious of.


----------



## Carla D (Apr 20, 2019)

They are at their new home. They look happy there. That looks like a really awesome goat setup.


----------



## greybeard (Apr 20, 2019)

I would not like buying any kind of meat on a "live-on-the-hoof" basis if it is sold by the lb.  It would have to be an extremely low price/lb....close to or below sale barn price, especially, if I still had to pay processor costs. I've never seen a processor that couldn't weigh the carcass.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Apr 20, 2019)

greybeard said:


> I would not like buying any kind of meat on a "live-on-the-hoof" basis if it is sold by the lb.  It would have to be an extremely low price/lb....close to or below sale barn price, especially, if I still had to pay processor costs. I've never seen a processor that couldn't weigh the carcass.


We've always done it this way, as do all the folks that we know (well, the ones that we talk to often/have a relationship with).
I've never had anyone balk at the price, if they do they can walk  Works great for us. They pic the goat up on butcher day (or the day before) and we get $2-$2.50/lb live weight on the hoof. No hassle.


----------



## Mike CHS (Apr 20, 2019)

I know of several sheep producers that also do it that way.  One of the bigger growers just across the Kentucky line is selling right now 150 ram lambs that they weigh on the way to the trailer and they get $2.00 a pound.


----------



## Carla D (May 8, 2019)

I made a really tough decision last night. It was to part with Jack Frost and Tanner. My remaining two wethers from my original “starter pack”. There were several that played into that decision. But the biggest reasons were the two didn’t adjust at all after their six buddies left the farm. They visually look at least 10-15 pounds lighter, they were pretty mopey, and we had to struggle to get out of their area because there were gate issues with us going in and coming out. Our little girl started to get scared of them since they were so big and they pushed her over and she got hurt a couple of times. I decided to get her a couple of Nigerian dwarfs since they would ever get super huge for her. We don’t have them yet, maybe a week or two. We really don’t have the space for four appropriately sized pastures/pens to house two big boys, two young bucks, the doelings and a couple of dwarf youngsters. They are too different in size, needs, and age to house the wethers with the doelings or the bucks yet. They try to push the babies out of the food up to this point. And I’m pretty sure I can’t house baby dwarfs with 8-10 week old Nubians and Lamanchas for at least 2-3 months. So, since the wethers were stressed and Abigail was scared of them now they needed to go. This morning that were sold to the same couple that bought the other six goats of ours. I found out today that they have a 2 acre pasture with several other goats they already had. They were doing really good. So I’m hoping Jack and Tanner do better with the rest of their herd, more friends, and a huge playground to live in. The couple really love that my boys are so friendly and love attention. Their other goats aren’t quite that sweet and friendly.


----------



## Bruce (May 9, 2019)

I hope things settle down with those 2 gone.


----------



## Carla D (May 10, 2019)

Bruce said:


> I hope things settle down with those 2 gone.


I do too. This has been an overwhelming month.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (May 20, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

Just caught back up.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Southern by choice (May 20, 2019)

greybeard said:


> I would not like buying any kind of meat on a "live-on-the-hoof" basis if it is sold by the lb.  It would have to be an extremely low price/lb....close to or below sale barn price, especially, if I still had to pay processor costs. I've never seen a processor that couldn't weigh the carcass.


This is very common with many folk due to only wanting maybe one or two for a family celebration. They usually just gut/clean and grill whole.
Generally these are folk that aren't going to a processor. We do because of time and can get the cuts we want with no hassle. 
It is still a good deal for many because in the store it is very expensive.


----------



## Bruce (May 21, 2019)

With those prices I can see why goat meat isn't real popular!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (May 24, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

Only now I just stumbled upon your family's pictures on the "Put a face to a name!..." thread.  (For the others who may not have seen her post, here is the link: https://www.backyardherds.com/threa...e-post-your-pic-here.2728/page-33#post-588769 ).  You have a lovely family!  Thanks so much for posting that!

We return you now to our regularly scheduled program already in progress...


----------



## Carla D (May 26, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> Only now I just stumbled upon your family's pictures on the "Put a face to a name!..." thread.  (For the others who may not have seen her post, here is the link: https://www.backyardherds.com/threa...e-post-your-pic-here.2728/page-33#post-588769 ).  You have a lovely family!  Thanks so much for posting that!
> 
> We return you now to our regularly scheduled program already in progress...


We all get busy sometimes.


----------



## Carla D (May 27, 2019)

We have added a few little ones to our herd. We need to have a few little goats that don’t get bigger than Abigail. We found a few Nigerian Dwarf. They are the funniest little guys I’ve ever seen.

This is Hunnicutt.


 

Radar O’Reilly. He hasn’t always had a curled ear, but we love it and him.


 
 

Hawkeye Pierce 


 

Sherman Potter


 

In this last picture we will be getting the top one and the bottom one back really soon. One was struggling to bottle feed after being rejected by momma goat. The top one is Major Burns. The bottom one with a couple of spots is Corporal Klinger.


 

I’m not sure what possessed me to name these babies after M.A.S.H. Characters, but Jim and Abby are all excited about their names.


----------



## Mike CHS (May 27, 2019)

They are all gorgeous.


----------



## Carla D (May 28, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> They are all gorgeous.


Thank you. These little ones have a different mentality than any of the other goats I’ve had. These little ones are like tanks or bulldozers. My other goats would climb on another ones back to get them out of their way. Independent little tanks with short little legs.


----------



## Bruce (May 28, 2019)

Carla D said:


> I’m not sure what possessed me to name these babies after M.A.S.H. Characters, but Jim and Abby are all excited about their names.


What, no Hot Lips Houlihan?


----------



## Carla D (May 29, 2019)

Bruce said:


> What, no Hot Lips Houlihan?


We gave her the option of calling her Hot Lips or Hunnicutt. For some reason she liked Hunnicutt. Silly girl.


----------



## Bruce (May 29, 2019)

Depending on how one leans, I can see where BJ would be more attractive than Hot Lips.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Jun 24, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

Are you OK?  We haven't heard anything from you in awhile...

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Carla D (Jul 15, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> Are you OK?  We haven't heard anything from you in awhile...
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


I’m sorry. It has been a jam packed summer. We haven’t even made it to our cabin yet this year. My husband is going back to work today. He’s been on vacation since the morning of July 4th. I think he’s secretly happy to be going back as well. He’s been kept super busy.

We are finally out of our apartment. We also dodged a big bullet. We were set to close on a house in town, which was the very last place we wanted to live. The seller pulled the house out from under us two days before we were set to close. Turns out that seller was in a heap of legal troubles. He was trying to sell the house to pay off a legal settlement. We later found out there was a lien on that house because of his legal issues. That’s the big bullet we dodged.

I have had some pretty crazy health issues pop up. There was a 3cm nodule found incidentally on my thyroid. With several appointments it has been determined to be benign. But they also found several small nodules in my lungs. They are unwilling to do a biopsy on them at this time. They want to monitor for six months before they consider biopsy on them. Lung cancer does run in my family. I lost an aunt at almost this exact age to lung cancer. But, she used to be a smoker. I’ve never smoked a single cigarette in my life. So I’m waiting for October to come around and redo my chest CT where that is also how we incidentally found those nodules as well.

While all of these cancer scares were unfolding I discovered I was nearly 3 months pregnant. I turn 47 in four days. I was told I have better odds winning the lottery than I would have getting pregnant again. I have since miscarried the baby which really wasn’t a big surprise. 

We are currently living with my SIL on the farm where Jim and I have been keeping our animals. It has been so very nice living there. We’ve been here for 1.5 months already. We have continued our house hunt. Guess what? We found our little 16 acre farmette. We should be moving in there in about a month. Right before Abigail starts school up in the fall. 

We have been super busy with our pigs and goats. We are finally making money on the pig side of things. We currently have 14 sows/gilts set to farrow early September. We won’t be moving the pigs to the new place until the piglets have been weened. Which probably is a good thing. The property we are buying isn’t set up for housing animals at the moment. We will need to do a bit of fencing and shelter building before we bring any animals to the new place.

I am also pretty content with my little herd of goats. I have 5 Nubians, one a buck. 3 lamanchas, 1 a buck. And six Nigerian dwarfs, 3 of them bucks. I’m not quite sure what direction I’m headed with them at this time. Right now I’m quite content with all of them. All are five months old or younger. I might try and pasture raise all of them in one huge 1-2 acre pasture on the new place. Take babies as they happen throughout the year. I will have to segregate them a bit. At least until fall. I don’t want any of my does pregnant before becoming mature enough to safely get pregnant.

I did finally sell my original eight wethers. I was going to keep Tanner and Jack Frost. But they didn’t adjust well after I sold their buddies. They started to lose weight and were no longer gentle to the babies I had at that time. They are much happier now with their partners in crime. I was able to sell the two to the same people who bought the other six. I guess I kinda made some money on my goats as well.

I have even spent time on the goats trampoline snuggling with one of my Nubians. I had no idea goats could be snuggly critters. My legs are also covered on small bruises because they also think they are lap goats. My 50-60# doelings fight to sit on my lap every chance they get. I’ve actually been letting all of my goats free range during the day. They are quite happy helping me out around the farm all day. They still get penned up at night though. The coyote count is pretty high right now. I might not be getting a LGD for the new place. But, I’m thinking something along the lines of mini horse, donkey, llama, or something else along those lines to house with the goats when we get them to the new place. We are super excited to be moving onto that property. There is space for animals, hay, corn, 4-wheeler trails, hunting, shooting range, and more. We got really lucky with this place. https://www.homesnap.com/WI/Wilson/2732-Us-Highway-12. Right now it’s only a manufactured home, huge, heated, insulated garage with in-floor heating and a decent pole shed. We like the fact that we don’t have to make what’s already there work for us. We can set things up exactly how we want them.
      




The two itty bitty dwarfs are Violet and Iris. Twins. They are the most pampered little goats you’ll ever see. We got them to be companion to Hunnicutt. I can’t believe she’s probably doubled in size since we got her.




*Life is good!!!*


----------



## Bruce (Jul 16, 2019)

Carla D said:


> We later found out there was a lien on that house because of his legal issues.


Shouldn't that have been found by your lawyer when the title search was done?


----------



## promiseacres (Jul 16, 2019)

Thanks for the update ! Sounds like a nice place!


----------



## farmerjan (Jul 16, 2019)

Congrats on the new place.  Looks like it is very workable for a nice small farming operation.  Just needs a few trees for summer shade and you will be all set to go.  That's wonderful for you.


----------



## Carla D (Jul 17, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Shouldn't that have been found by your lawyer when the title search was done?


We were using his lawyer. He didn’t want to work with a realtor or anyone using a realtor. That alone should have tipped us off to run as fast as possible away from that deal.


----------



## Carla D (Jul 17, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> Congrats on the new place.  Looks like it is very workable for a nice small farming operation.  Just needs a few trees for summer shade and you will be all set to go.  That's wonderful for you.


We found out there is even a creek running through it. The property is absolutely gorgeous. There is a whole lot of land, trees, grasses, berries, flowers, and a creek behind the trees in the views of the yard. We did find one thing that was a bit alarming. Scat, we think bear. There have been several sittings of bears in this area lately. Even in town. I wish I had taken some pictures when we went for a little hike back there. There was a huge amount of milkweed plants, wild raspberries and blackberries, tiger lilies, and a couple of plants that had purple flowers, which I’ve never seen before. I have no clue what they were. It will make for some amazing deer hunting or pasture land back there.


----------



## Bruce (Jul 17, 2019)

Carla D said:


> We were using his lawyer. He didn’t want to work with a realtor or anyone using a realtor. That alone should have tipped us off to run as fast as possible away from that deal.


Everything is so much more clear after the fact. Glad you missed that bullet.


----------



## farmerjan (Jul 17, 2019)

Carla D said:


> We were using his lawyer. He didn’t want to work with a realtor or anyone using a realtor. That alone should have tipped us off to run as fast as possible away from that deal.


No matter now, you are out of it.  A good learning experience that luckily did work out in your favor.  You will never forget it, should you ever decide to relocate again.  Glad it "went haywire" in this case.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Aug 23, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

Are you OK?  We haven't heard from you in awhile.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Sep 11, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

I miss you!  I hope I didn't say anything stupid to make you leave.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## farmerjan (Sep 11, 2019)

I bet you are busy as a beaver getting ready for the winter on the new place....


----------



## Carla D (Nov 18, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> Are you OK?  We haven't heard from you in awhile.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


I’m sorry, life has been hectic, sometimes chaotic, challenging, and overwhelming. We are trying to trim the excess so we manage the important stuff.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 18, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> I miss you!  I hope I didn't say anything stupid to make you leave.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


Nope! Nothing stupid. Just trying to keep our heads above water.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 18, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> I bet you are busy as a beaver getting ready for the winter on the new place....


Actually a month ago we were fighting excessive amounts of water on our property. There was mud everywhere! From our vehicles, our goats, walking back and forth on the same path. We were inundated with what felt like a sunami. When we should have been preparing for winter, we were trying to get the goats out of two pens that started with standing water for about a week and then turned into mud. Its still mud, frozen mud. They have been in their new pasture/pen for about 2-3 weeks. We ended up putting them on top of a smallish high spot on our property. It was pretty much the only place in the front half of our property that stayed dry. We had much more than a foot of rain fall on us in about a four day period. We learned that in the past one of our neighbors diverted water off of his property so he could grow crops. He has beautiful corn in the field right now. We discovered our property leans more toward ultramoist/wetland than it does nice dry crop/farm land. We are going to have a bunch of work in the spring if we want to do anything on this wet piece of land. We are truly hoping this was a really bad year weather wise. If things aren’t dryer these next couple of years we will be selling our new place. The only pigs we’ve brought to the new place is some weanlings and feeders. They are in the barn. Im betting they are in the barn all winter. We haven’t had any chance to get living arrangements for them here yet. We are going to cut back on our pig breeding herd to one boar 3 sows for my husband and our daughters sow and gilt. Thats going to leave about a dozen pigs to either ship to auction, or sell. We haven’t had any luck selling them this time of year. We have a few selected for family freezers but their days are numbered. We have about a 400# sow hanging quartered in our garage for my Dad. Its time consuming and expensive working between two farms. We must get our pig situation settled quickly here or we probably wont make it through the winter here. We’ve already had electricity shut off two days the beginning of this month. We are pretty much out of hay for goats, rabbit. Our piglets don't have very good stuff at the moment either. I guess this is character building. We can buy more hay in a couple of days. We are supplementing our goats with romps in our mismanaged hay field full of who knows what. But they seem to like it.

this is just a start of what has been going on. My father in law was hit by a speeding vintage boat of a car while he was on tractor. Hes lucky to be alive. But, we lost our only reliable tractor and only working sickle mower in that accident. We were farming with lawnmowers and some kind of hay rake that has 5 spiky metal wheels that we've been pulling with 4-wheeler. Talk about creativity. Ive missed many of you in here. Just been too busy.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 18, 2019)

Life has been super “crazy, hectic, shattering, expensive, stressful“ maybe tumultuous is the right word. It’s been one thing after another. I just snipped this from one of my comments to a comment in here. It might be easier than retyping it all over again.

Actually a month ago (late September-early October) we were fighting excessive amounts of water on our property. There was mud everywhere! From our vehicles, our goats, walking back and forth on the same path. We were inundated with what felt like a sunami. When we should have been preparing for winter, we were trying to get the goats out of two pens that started with standing water for about a week and then turned into mud. Its still mud, frozen mud. They have been in their new pasture/pen for about 2-3 weeks. We ended up putting them on top of a smallish high spot on our property. It was pretty much the only place in the front half of our property that stayed dry. We had much more than a foot of rain fall on us in about a four day period. We learned that in the past one of our neighbors diverted water off of his property so he could grow crops. He has beautiful corn in the field right now. We discovered our property leans more toward ultramoist/wetland than it does nice dry crop/farm land. We are going to have a bunch of work in the spring if we want to do anything on this wet piece of land. We are truly hoping this was a really bad year weather wise. If things aren’t dryer these next couple of years we will be selling our new place. The only pigs we’ve brought to the new place is some weanlings and feeders. They are in the barn. Im betting they are in the barn all winter. We haven’t had any chance to get living arrangements for them here yet. We are going to cut back on our pig breeding herd to one boar 3 sows for my husband and our daughters sow and gilt. Thats going to leave about a dozen pigs to either ship to auction, or sell. We haven’t had any luck selling them this time of year. We have a few selected for family freezers but their days are numbered. We have about a 400# sow hanging quartered in our garage for my Dad. Its time consuming and expensive working between two farms. We must get our pig situation settled quickly here or we probably wont make it through the winter here. We’ve already had electricity shut off two days the beginning of this month. We are pretty much out of hay for goats, rabbit. Our piglets don't have very good stuff at the moment either. I guess this is character building. We can buy more hay in a couple of days. We are supplementing our goats with romps in our mismanaged hay field full of who knows what. But they seem to like it.

this is just a start of what has been going on. My father in law was hit by a speeding vintage boat of a car while he was on tractor. Hes lucky to be alive. But, we lost our only reliable tractor and only working sickle mower in that accident. We were farming with lawnmowers and some kind of hay rake that has 5 spiky metal wheels that we've been pulling with 4-wheeler. Talk about creativity. Ive missed many of you in here. Just been too busy.

my husband is so exhausted from working both places with his pigs. He has managed to take care of our adult pigs at Becky’s farm. Ive been doing nearly all of the building, fencing, and caring for things here. He’s been too wiped out to help much more than when i hit block in the road. Ive managed 3 goat houses and pens. And seven 5’x8’ indoor pens for our piglets. An indoor pen for my three smallest goats to spend the night in. Troughs, hay feeders, two closets. I even closed in the east, south, west foundation of our barn. Its going to need more work. But it might end up being a machine/feed shed. The foundation had been lifted from a storm in its past. The barn was so breezy and drafty we started to loose piglets after we got them here. Its a quick fix. Not up to my husbands standards though.

our daughter has adjusted to school quite nicely. She loves school and the teacher loves her because shes the oldest in her class, warmly welcomes new students and pretty much knows the ropes and is a teaching peer to her classmates
.


----------



## promiseacres (Nov 18, 2019)

prayers that things settle with the water... constant mud sucks....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie (Nov 18, 2019)

Miss @Carla D,

I am SO HAPPY you have paid a visit to the forum!  I am SO SORRY you have been having so much trouble with rain and mud.  That is enough to drive anyone crazy! I hope you get a break from the bad weather, so you can get caught up. Has your dad recovered from the accident? I hope he is OK. Was the driver of the car at fault for the collision? I hope the driver will end up paying for the damages to the tractor and equipment. I shudder to think how little work we could get done without a tractor. I will grant your ingenuity for using your 4 wheeler as a tractor. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures.   I wish you and your family the best, and when you get time, please stop by the forum and let us all know how you are doing.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## farmerjan (Nov 18, 2019)

So sorry to hear about the mud.... then to add to it the accident.  I can only echo @Senile_Texas_Aggie  's thoughts, and hope that the car owner will have to pay.  If your FIL had the necessary slow moving vehicle triangle on the tractor, then he should have some grounds to stand on...not knowing the laws there.... but here, basically they have right of way except if he pulled out into the path of the car.  Still, hoping that he will be okay and that is still most important. 

Kudos to you for doing as much as you have with the pen building and trying to make things more workable for the time being.  Maybe cutting back for this year with the hogs is the best thing to do.  The good thing, hogs are fairly fast in getting to breeding/production age and size compared to say a cow.... so you may only be "behind" for a year.  
We had the mud last year and it was the pits.  Lost some calves and had some others just not do well for months.  The cows did not do as well last year either.  This year has been better, but we have cut our herd down a bit too. 

We used an old horse drawn rake the first year I was in Va pulled behind the pick up to rake the hay that we cut with an old single sickle bar horse drawn mower, pulled by the same pickup.  Forked it on the truck by hand and then forked it up into the loft by hand.  It can be done, but you need to be younger than I am now to do that kind of physically challenging work. 
Necessity is the mother of invention and make do.....


----------



## Carla D (Nov 19, 2019)

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> I am SO HAPPY you have paid a visit to the forum!  I am SO SORRY you have been having so much trouble with rain and mud.  That is enough to drive anyone crazy! I hope you get a break from the bad weather, so you can get caught up. Has your dad recovered from the accident? I hope he is OK. Was the driver of the car at fault for the collision? I hope the driver will end up paying for the damages to the tractor and equipment. I shudder to think how little work we could get done without a tractor. I will grant your ingenuity for using your 4 wheeler as a tractor. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures.   I wish you and your family the best, and when you get time, please stop by the forum and let us all know how you are doing.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


I missed you. My FIL is doing miraculously well considering he was thrown several feet in the air and landed on the back of his head. I would consider him 90% recovered. They are however making it impossible to his license back. They say his reaction time is too slow. Hes 74 years old, doesnt do video games and never had a traffic violation. Hes not even allowed to drive with a passenger as a 15 year old would be able to do. They are testing him and his reaction time by doing games similar to real life arcade games. Of course hes not going to have quick reaction times with this. Hes not wired that way. Then to top it off, they want him to do an actual drivers test behind the wheel In the middle of December. He has not driven his truck since August. Hows he supposed to jump behind the wheel for the very first time since his accident in snow? This is the upper Midwest. Everyone drives like fools with their first snowfall. His accident didnt kill him, but believe it or not his not getting his driver’s license back will. Hes been very patient and played by their rules of not driving. He lost his wife 8 years ago. I used the chance to be very active in his childrens and grandchildrens lives as reason to live after his wife had a really long and painful last year of life. He cant stand being a burden on his family. He was nearly always busy helping family. Every day was a different child to help out. He has six of them. Its really frustrating watching him go down hill over something as crazy as a drivers license. Give him a verbal test with a diagram to refer to and hed pass immediately. His reaction time is better than mine. But, when all said, hes doing pretty darn good for flying through the air and landing on the back of his head. Not once did he lose consciousness, vomit, or have confusion after his accident. Hes still 100% the stubborn independent old farmboy hes always been. I guess thats the long version of an answer.


----------



## Carla D (Nov 19, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> So sorry to hear about the mud.... then to add to it the accident.  I can only echo @Senile_Texas_Aggie  's thoughts, and hope that the car owner will have to pay.  If your FIL had the necessary slow moving vehicle triangle on the tractor, then he should have some grounds to stand on...not knowing the laws there.... but here, basically they have right of way except if he pulled out into the path of the car.  Still, hoping that he will be okay and that is still most important.
> 
> Kudos to you for doing as much as you have with the pen building and trying to make things more workable for the time being.  Maybe cutting back for this year with the hogs is the best thing to do.  The good thing, hogs are fairly fast in getting to breeding/production age and size compared to say a cow.... so you may only be "behind" for a year.
> We had the mud last year and it was the pits.  Lost some calves and had some others just not do well for months.  The cows did not do as well last year either.  This year has been better, but we have cut our herd down a bit too.
> ...


They are actually blaming him for the accident. They said he pulled out in front of the car. That car had to be going at a super fast speed to have done the damage they did and to not have seen him sitting at the corner. He states he clearly looked both ways. He knows that is a dangerous intersection and people speed badly on that highway. A state highway which only has two lanes. Hed commented along with my husband at how dangerous that intersection is.

his entire rear left wheel was snapped right off under his seat. It was an old Alice Chalmer. Sent that flying as well. His sickle mower isin about 16 busted up pieces. My FIL will be really lucky if they dont try to sue him.

I told my husband if he can find away to cut about 8 acres of wild hay id rake it up by hand and possibly even hand bale it. time never showed up.


----------



## Bruce (Nov 19, 2019)

Carla D said:


> We learned that in the past one of our neighbors diverted water off of his property so he could grow crops. He has beautiful corn in the field right now.


And was that water diverted toward your property being downhill from theirs? Seems that is the way it goes in the midwest. Farmer 1 wants to get water off the field, puts in "tile" so it exits at the low end of their property. Where is it going to go? Onto the neighboring property so they now have twice as much water on their land so they do the same thing until eventually there is a landowner with a waterway to dump the water into. 

Seems like the only bright spot in your life the last few months is that your daughter is happy and doing well at school!


----------



## Carla D (Nov 19, 2019)

Bruce said:


> And was that water diverted toward your property being downhill from theirs? Seems that is the way it goes in the midwest. Farmer 1 wants to get water off the field, puts in "tile" so it exits at the low end of their property. Where is it going to go? Onto the neighboring property so they now have twice as much water on their land so they do the same thing until eventually there is a landowner with a waterway to dump the water into.
> 
> Seems like the only bright spot in your life the last few months is that your daughter is happy and doing well at school!


Thats not the only bright spot. A lot of good things have happened because we have been forced to look at things differently. My dad had suggested we make a pond out of the water that finds its way to our place. I kinda like that idea. If we do it just right we may not have to water our livestock all year around. I want ducks and a pair of large tan colored geese. I don’t remember the breed they were. They seemed very majestic, calm, and didn’t mind our daughter. But, for the most part temperament can be controlled if you have a little girl that loves everything, carries her animals around if they are small enough, sit with them and talk with them. She actually was the only person out of five of us tha could get a weak little runt piglet to drink from a bottle. She still has things to learn. But i learn loads from her everyday.


----------

