# Pygmy Kid - Born in snow and very cold/weak



## smoknz28 (Feb 16, 2016)

Ack!  

Well, we are still new to goats and have a kid who was just born hours ago.  We don't know exactly when, but when we went out to feed our animals, we found the kid laying in the melting snow barely breathing laying on its side.

We quickly picked it up and brought it indoors.  We've dried it off the best we can at this point and have it wrapped in a warm towel next to the fireplace.  Every now and then it opens its eyes and is breathing.

Currently has between 40-45 respirations per minute.  I don't now where it should be.  

Looking for some quick recommendation and pointers here so we can keep this kid alive.

The Doe is a first time mom as well.


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## Latestarter (Feb 16, 2016)

@frustratedearthmother @Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @babsbag  First thing I think is to get him warmed up, you may even have to run a warm bath and immerse him to get that temp up as quickly as possible. Sitting him by the fire in a towel might take too long. How is mom doing? Has she passed the placenta? Is there another kid laying outside anywhere? If you can get him warmed up enough to take him back out to the mom and try to get him attached to the nipple that would be good, if not, you could milk colostrum out of the mom and bottle feed him. Don't feed him if he's cold, he has to be warm to be able to digest the milk. Hope he makes it.


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## smoknz28 (Feb 16, 2016)

Thank you for the quick response...  

We have the kid wrapped up in a fresh warm towel now and I'm going to head back outside to check on mom and to prepare the bedding.  

Mom seems to be doing good from what I can see before heading back outside...  More to come. 

Thank you again!


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## Southern by choice (Feb 16, 2016)

One way to see if he is warming is by sticking your finger in his mouth... is it cold? warm?

@Latestarter  has told you pretty much what you need to do.


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## smoknz28 (Feb 16, 2016)

Update...

Mom is doing very well.  Yes, she did pass the placenta.

Baby is still not up and walking around yet and is weak.  We did not put the baby in warm water, but rather we are alternating warm towels out of the dryer about every 20 minutes.  So far, it's body is feeling warm, but the legs are still cold to the touch.  Its head is warm as well.  We were most worried about the body and it's head.  Still trying to warm it's legs up. 

Every now and then it will open it's eyes and we have seen it move the front legs....but not very often.  We are trying not to bother it too much as we don't want it to use up too much of its energy.

How long will it be okay for the kid to not drink it's mom's colostrum?  Just don't know how much longer it will take before it comes around to being strong enough to stand or to drink.

Any further thoughts are very welcome.


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## TAH (Feb 16, 2016)

Has the baby had any colostrum?


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## smoknz28 (Feb 16, 2016)

TAH said:


> Has the baby had any colostrum?



No, it's been too cold and weak to move around on it's own.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

When dealing with a hypothermic goat kid, the first thing I would do is take their temp so you know how high their temp needs to be raised.

Do the warm water bath NOW. Use a trash bag and wrap his body up until his head is sticking out of the bag and emerge him into the water. DO NOT give colostrum to a chilled kid! They must be warm FIRST! That way the kid will be mostly dry when you pull him out of the water.

Once you take him out of the water bath start to blow dry the kid using a normal hair dryer on low setting. Rub the kid all over the body! Keep that blood flowing.

Start him on some warm karo (corn) syrup  to give him a boost, if you can get him to swallow it.

You need to get this kid warmed NOW because he should have had colostrum hours ago, but like I said he needs to be warm first!

When he is out of the bath can you put him on a heating pad? To you have any HOT-HAND hand warmers? If you do, wrap it in a cloth and put in between his rear legs.

This is a good link to read, if you haven't already.
http://goat-link.com/content/view/27/77/#.VsOAMvIrK1s

Warming a kid to fast can make him have convulsions, so don't make the water burning hot!


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

Anyone else feel free to add anything to my post, I'm just thinking of the basics to save this kid NOW.


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## smoknz28 (Feb 16, 2016)

Great info!

Update...  As we were wrapping baby in the trash bags...it did try to cry once.  We also noticed she pooped just a bit.

These seem like good signs....

She's now in the sink with warm water and her eyes are opening every now and then.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

Glad you are doing the warm water bath! 

Did you take her temp? It is important to take her tempt before you do the bath and again after to see if it is helping.

Do you mind me asking what state you are in? What was the outdoor temperature when you found the kid? 

Hope you keep us updated on her progress. Really hoping she pulls through


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## smoknz28 (Feb 16, 2016)

Yes, we were VERY hesitant to do the bath...but then I see we should use a bag.  Now that made sense and we felt more comfortable doing it.  

We were ill prepared for this...  We don't have a any other thermometer but one that is taken for use through our ear canal.  We don't have one for a rectum.  

We found the kid in 50 degree temp.  We had a freeze over during the night and this morning we had freezing rain with about 2" of snow that was on the ground.  

The mother actually had 2 kids.  The other one we lost...  

Thank you all for your quick help on this.

We are going to try and unite the kid with the mother soon after we continue the warming up process.


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## TAH (Feb 16, 2016)

Glad to hear she is doing better. Please keep us up dated.


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 16, 2016)

Hope she continues to improve!!


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## smoknz28 (Feb 16, 2016)

Update...

It's still weak.  We pulled it out of the warm water bath after 40-minutes.  She did make a few attempts at crying, but they were very faint.  

While my wife continues to massage the kid and keep it warm...I went out and milked the mother.  Wanted just enough to have on hand to dribble in the kid's mouth.

Dribbled a bit in the kids mouth, but it is still very weak.  It can't hold it's head up and it may have a broken leg. 

The body is warm, but the legs are still cool.  We are continuing the massage on them to get/keep the blood flowing.

Should I continue dribbling a drop or two of the mother's milk in her mouth every few minutes or wait until she is stronger?


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

Are you doing the Karo syrup? You need to get the sugars in her.

I don't who where you are, but do you have someone who can get a thermometer? It can be one for humans, the kind that goes under the tongue or armpit.

Do you have a heating pad? Are you doing the blow dryer?

When they have low temp they are unable to digest the milk, so giving it can do more harm then good. Put your finger in her mouth, does it feel cold or warm?


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## smoknz28 (Feb 16, 2016)

All I could find...is Light Corn Syrup with Real Vanilla.  Don't know if I can use that??

I'm in Fredericksburg, VA.  We've used the blow dryer on her...and yes, we confirmed it is a girl.

The mouth does feel cool.

We've checked all her legs and it appears only one of her front legs are mobile...at this point.  Worried she may have lost her rear legs and a broken front leg leaving her with only one good leg.  Not 100% yet...

She's still very weak and she's not able to hold her head up on her own yet.

My fear at this point....  She has no movement in 3 of her legs where I may possibly have to put her down myself after her fight for life.  Really a bad feeling at this point...


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

Feeding babies right and am on the phone typing

Do you have molasses or nutridrench or jumpstart 

Gosh I wish you were a little closer
Have all kinds of goat stuff we could at least try


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## smoknz28 (Feb 16, 2016)

No molasses. I did give her some corn syrup. 

As we pick up her head she will open her mouth with a faint cry. Again, most worrisome for me at this point is that she's lost mobility in possibly 3 of her legs.


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## TAH (Feb 16, 2016)

Are her legs warm?


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## Southern by choice (Feb 16, 2016)

The mobility could be from loss of blood flow. Do her "feet" feel cold?
If so you need to put the feet in warm water- directly.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

X2

I can understand if you decide to put her down. She is yours and its your choice. Although it seems like if she's been with you this long I personally would try to fight along with her. Can you feel any breaks? I would it the in the water like SBC said. After that I would put a heat pad on it or at least make a "nest" with some towels and hang a heat lamp. 

You need to milk momma doe out and freeze the colostrum so you can at least have it for future use.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 16, 2016)

The kids I saved last week---I had them in the tub directly, submerged up to their necks, and kept rubbing them for a good 30-40 minutes, rerunning the water as it cooled.  Then, they were blow dried very very thoroughly and given a dose of Nutridrench because it was what I had on hand.  Mollasses might help, something sweet to get sugar in the blood.  

x2 on colostrum but getting her warm is the most important at the moment.


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## TAH (Feb 16, 2016)

Here is a recipe of homemade colostrum replacement. Hope this helps.
1 beaten egg
3 cups warm milk
1 tsp cod liver oil (I used mineral oil, that's all I had)
1 T sugar (I use honey)


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## goats&moregoats (Feb 16, 2016)

Hoping for the little one to pull through.


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## smoknz28 (Feb 16, 2016)

Well...I truly want to thank you all for your support through this. 

I learned that I was ill prepared for tending to kids upon birthing who require intervention. 

I do have one other doe that is ready to give birth as well. I moved her into an enclosed wood shed with fresh pine shavings and straw with food and water. This will prevent her from giving birth in the open where we still have snow and melt. 

Need to hit the local TSC to pick up supplies I was missing. Thermometer is one!  If there are other recommendations of what I should have on hand as well...please let me know. 

Now...for the girl we rescued from the freeze...she put up one hell of a fight...but, she has passed in her sleep after a 9 hour battle. Very heartbreaking, but I do blame myself for my ignorance. 

Again, thank you all so much for your quick support. Hopefully our next birth will be a success.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 16, 2016)

Very sorry for your loss.

See if you can find "Jump-start" paste- his can be a real lifesaver.

Nutri-drench 

Thermometer

Towels (for drying)

Nasal Aspirator (For suctioning)

Iodine (umbilical dip)

Dixie cups (for iodine dip)

Paper Towels (for all the "messy")

Dental Floss (to tie off the umbilical cord)

Scissors (for cord snipping and excess floss string) 

Gloves (not pictured- sterile gloves for those times when assistance is needed) Full sleeve gloves for emergency

Lube - for emergency


Did you give your does a CD&T vaccine 30 days prior to kidding?


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## Latestarter (Feb 16, 2016)

I'm sorry that you had to go through this on your first shot. It's very hard. You weren't prepared, but who is on their first go round with a bad situation? You tried, and did the best you could under the circumstances. I would recommend that you milk out the mom and freeze the colostrum for future emergency use. You can either pasteurize it first, or just freeze it raw. And the one advantage to all this is that you will have a doe in milk that you can milk for your own use or to save, again, in case of emergencies. Again, so sorry.


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## TAH (Feb 16, 2016)

Sorry about the loss. 
Things that would be helpful
super long gloves
iodine
molasses 
you will want to make sure the other doe stays worm and dry. 
These are the things that I can think of right know. I will let you know if I think of anything else.


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 16, 2016)

I am so sorry for your loss...that was a hard way to learn a hard lesson.  Hoping for much better luck your next time!

LS is giving you some good advice to milk out mom and save the colostrum.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

Sorry you lost her  You gave her a chance and didn't give up on her!

Something that I always tell folks is to keep Jumpstart Plus paste, Goat Nutridrench, syringes etc on hand. Keeping simple things in hand like plain Karo syrup and molasses on hand can be a life saver.

Look around for some of the little "hot hands" hand warmers. A lot of places are blowing them out at cheap prices with spring around the corner.

Would you like me to post my whole kidding kit? It is everything I keep on hand for kidding time. You won't need all the items, but it's still a good list


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

Posting at the same time as everyone else. 

You need to milk that doe out, I don't know if you saw my post earlier about it.


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## TAH (Feb 16, 2016)

Could you post all the stuff in the kidding kit? Goat whisper! I would really like to see every thing in it.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

My kidding kit includes:
Towels! Lots of em!
Paper towels
Trash bags
Floss (for the navel)
Iodine+ a cup
Scissors
Rubbing alcohol- I use this to clean the scissors before cutting the navel
Flashlight
Thermometer
Bulb syringe
Bottle/nipples
Frozen colostrum
Disposable gloves
Shoulder length gloves
Lube
CMT mastitis kit along with TODAY mastitis treatment tubes

Weak kid syringe-I haven't had to use it and I hope I never will, but it is a great thing to have on hand.

Small dog sweaters for the baby goat kids- if it is cold outside

I also keep on hand-
Jumpstart Plus paste, I got it from TSC and I don't think 2 of my kids would be alive without it. It was a rough birth and they were very weak and this stuff helped a lot.

Nutri-Drench

Molasses- I give some in some warm water after the doe kids.

Penn G* (antibiotic)

LA 200* (antibiotic)

*These antibiotics aren't really for kidding- I always keep them on hand and if the doe had an issue such as a retianed placenta or stillborn kids, an antibiotic may be necessary.

*NOTE: Do not give molasses or Nutri-Drench to an animal with a fever, it will only make it worse.

Other things that are great to have are heating pads, premiere1 heat lamps and other safe heat sources.*


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## TAH (Feb 16, 2016)

After your next do kids you should give her warm water with molasses in it.


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## TAH (Feb 16, 2016)

Thank you. That is very helpful.


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## norseofcourse (Feb 16, 2016)

I'm so sorry the little one didn't make it     sometimes it just isn't meant to be.  At least she passed peacefully, and being cared for, instead of out in the cold.  I hope all goes well with the rest of your kidding season.


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 16, 2016)

I'm sorry the doeling didn't make it!  You did a great job caring for her and trying to get her well!


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## smoknz28 (Feb 17, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> Sorry you lost her  You gave her a chance and didn't give up on her!
> 
> Something that I always tell folks is to keep Jumpstart Plus paste, Goat Nutridrench, syringes etc on hand. Keeping simple things in hand like plain Karo syrup and molasses on hand can be a life saver.
> 
> ...



Yes, please do post up your kidding kit.  

There have been some very supportive responses and are welcome.


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## smoknz28 (Feb 17, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> Posting at the same time as everyone else.
> 
> You need to milk that doe out, I don't know if you saw my post earlier about it.



I did see the post...  So, if I milk the Doe out, does that mean I will need to milk her every day/other day?  This is what we don't want to deal with.

We have had goats with us for the past 4 years.  We actually did have one successful birth happen 2 years ago.  We made the mistake of putting our bucks together with the Does too early.  Meaning, we wanted the births to take place in late March to early April.  This is when it's not as cold here.  The successful birthing took place 2 years ago in April.  She's still with us and is doing very well.

We have never milked our goats because we don't need the milk nor do we drink goats milk.

Again, I'm worried to start milking the mother because the way I understood about milking is...once you start milking them, you have to continue it or it will be bad for the Doe.

If we can milk her for a few days....I'm good with that and then we can freeze the milk for emergencies.

Please advise.  Thanks again.


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## smoknz28 (Feb 17, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Very sorry for your loss.
> 
> Did you give your does a CD&T vaccine 30 days prior to kidding?



Thank you....

No, we have never vaccinated our goats.  I have taken an approach that I don't want to push vaccines in them until I feel they have a need for it.  We have had goats for the past 4-years and have never vaccinated them.  We have had one birth on our farm as well from one of our Pygmy's and her offspring is still very healthy 2-years later.  We've not had any issues with diseases with any of them.  

I'm not fully against vaccinating them, but again, I just would rather not push drugs in them if it's really not needed.  Not saying my way is right, but it has worked for me successfully for the past 4 years.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 17, 2016)

Here is the list @smoknz28 




Goat Whisperer said:


> My kidding kit includes:
> Towels! Lots of em!
> Paper towels
> Trash bags
> ...



It is best to milk out the colostrum now and freeze it and GRADUALLY dry her up. You don't want to just leave her be, doing so will open you up to more issues.

I'm not sure how long it will take a Pygmy to dry up, maybe @frustratedearthmother will have an idea on how long it will take.


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## smoknz28 (Feb 17, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> Here is the list @smoknz28
> 
> It is best to milk out the colostrum now and freeze it and GRADUALLY dry her up. You don't want to just leave her be, doing so will open you up to more issues.
> 
> I'm not sure how long it will take a Pygmy to dry up, maybe @frustratedearthmother will have an idea on how long it will take.



Please help me understand what harm can come about if we don't milk her out.  This is interesting and we certainly don't want harm to come of her...she's already lost two of her kids...  

Thank you so much!


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 17, 2016)

I know you said you don't want to milk every day or other day... For the first few days this might be necessary. Normally the kid would be using up all her milk, but obviously she doesn't have them anymore. So know it is up to YOU to take care of her and don't let her go thru unnecessary pain of getting an engorged udder. You won't need to milk her for months on end but you might want milk tonight, Friday, and then milk small amounts of milk out when she starts looking over uddered.

Letting her get over uddered can cause her to leak milk, opening her udder up to bacteria that can cause mastitis. Mastitis can not only ruin the use of the udder but it can also kill the goat itself depending how bad the infection is.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 17, 2016)

You did very well with this and there is always a learning curve.  Our first kidding went great.  A week later, I was a sobbing puddle after a too big buckling died before I could get him out of our second pregnant doe.  It happens and you learn and even then, just when you think you got it, life gives you more lessons.

All good info from others on a kidding kit.  I would urge you to consider the CDT vaccine--the death from tetanus is awful and that plus cd bacteria are everywhere.  It is the only vaccine we do here.


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## smoknz28 (Feb 17, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> I know you said you don't want to milk every day or other day... For the first few days this might be necessary. Normally the kid would be using up all her milk, but obviously she doesn't have them anymore. So know it is up to YOU to take care of her and don't let her go thru unnecessary pain of getting an engorged udder. You won't need to milk her for months on end but you might want milk tonight, Friday, and then milk small amounts of milk out when she starts looking over uddered.
> 
> Letting her get over uddered can cause her to leak milk, opening her udder up to bacteria that can cause mastitis. Mastitis can not only ruin the use of the udder but it can also kill the goat itself depending how bad the infection is.



Knowledge is power my friend!  Thank you so much for the educational informational information.  We will start milking her tomorrow and as you instructed.  Thank you!


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## smoknz28 (Feb 19, 2016)

All,

What a beautiful day it was just a few hours before this posting...

My other Doe, who was born on our farm a couple years ago gave birth to a very healthy kid!

We have one more Doe, the mother of the Doe who gave birth today...is also pregnant and we expect her to give birth to two. We have about a couple more weeks before she gives birth. 

Well, here's the new kid.


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## Latestarter (Feb 19, 2016)

Congrats! That's wonderful! How is the other doing who lost her kids?


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## Southern by choice (Feb 19, 2016)

Awww that is wonderful! 

That is the bittersweet life on a farm.... there is loss that takes your heart and then you turn around and there is new life.

Glad all are well.


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 20, 2016)

Congratulations!!


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 21, 2016)

Congratulations on the new kid! 

Loved the video, so adorable!

How did the milking go with the other doe?


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## TAH (Feb 21, 2016)

Just watched the video. She is cute


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