# Help ASAP!  Update page 3! Bacterial?



## rebelINny (Apr 2, 2011)

I had a buckling born a bit ago. It was a full dystocia and my first one that  I have ever had to assist in. He is out but sucked in alot fluid. I have suctioned but he is still having some trouble. His neck keeps flinging back. How much Bo-Se should I give him. He's about 6lbs.


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## Roll farms (Apr 2, 2011)

I'm not sure I'd give him any until he's more stable....
Can you hold him by the back legs and gently pound his chest to try and get more stuff out of his lungs / windpipe?
Rubbing briskly w/ a towel will help get the blood flowing well.
Good luck w/ him.


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## rebelINny (Apr 2, 2011)

Thanks. I did do that some but I will more too. His front legs are stiff at both joints. That doesn't seem normal to me.


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## ksalvagno (Apr 2, 2011)

I hope your little guy is doing ok now. A shot of Banamine can help with the lungs too.


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## rebelINny (Apr 2, 2011)

I don't have banamine and the vet is out till Monday. His front let joints are still stiff and bent in both places. He seems to be breathing much better though.


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## Roll farms (Apr 2, 2011)

Hm...never had one born w/ stiff joints, was he huge / maybe 'cramped' in his former quarters?
BoSe dosage I use for standard-sized kids is 1/2 cc.  Repeat in 3 days if needed...but that's not often.
LOTS of physical therapy.  Move them legs!
Good luck!


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## whetzelmomma (Apr 2, 2011)

Get those joints moving if you can!! I have a farmer friend that has had to put down lambs because their limbs were frozen and they were unable to get/keep them functional!


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## rebelINny (Apr 2, 2011)

I will work on them. I am trying but it isn't going too well so far.


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## Roll farms (Apr 2, 2011)

Baby steps...let the bose work for a while, and try to move them a bit at a time.  You don't want to overdo / do more damage by stretching too much, too soon.


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## PattySh (Apr 2, 2011)

Glad to hear he is breathing better, I hope his legs improve.


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## rebelINny (Apr 2, 2011)

We just gave the bo-se a half hour ago. He is resting and finally took some colostrum down. I am having a rough time right now. I tested three goats for CAE last week (biotracking) and the results came back in yesterday. Two were negative but one (this buckling grand dam via his dam) was positive at 78%. She is the healthiest looking doe in the bunch and very stout. When we bought the herd we were told straight out that they had all tested negative for CAE. Obviously we were lied to. We haven't tested this bucklings dam yet but there is a good chance she has it if her dam has it. Could the leg and neck thing be CAE related? I am so upset right now because I have to get all my goats tested now and potentially lose several goats or at the least I will lose the one doe that is such a good goat all because a goat breeder can shoot straight and tell the truth.


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## ksalvagno (Apr 2, 2011)

I would have that one tested again. Just to make sure. Maybe even send the blood to WADDL.

If the little buck was a big one, womb placement could have played a big part. I have seen some very bad legs in alpaca crias and it is amazing what some BoSe and physical therapy can do for them.


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## rebelINny (Apr 2, 2011)

He is around 6 or 7lbs. I havent weighed him but I am pretty sure thats it. His mom is pretty good size but he was a full dystocia with both legs curled up under his body with just his head coming out. THis was my first assist and I was nervous and he was trying to come out but I was having to push him back in to find a leg.  He may have just been "sitting" on his bent legs for so long that they are kinda stuck like that. Hopefully I can work them straight. He is resting now peacefully after having some colostrum. He had a rough evening.


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## christy_was_here (Apr 2, 2011)

Hope your little guy is even better in the morning.


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## PattySh (Apr 2, 2011)

Are his legs  swollen? I had a BIG kid last yr. Terribly hard delivery. We had to pull him (hard!) and it took forever. His legs were so swollen for several days then his joints were wobbly. He had a very hard time walking at first but  by the end of his first week tho he was walking normally. I did not have Bo-se at the time. So hang in there.   Sorry to hear about the test results but maybe a false positive?


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## Roll farms (Apr 2, 2011)

I have 3 CAE pos. does.  

One was prev. raised by me w/ 4 other doelings...the other 4 tested clean....She's out of a 3x tested CAE free dam, her 2 sisters tested CAE free, and her daughter tested CAE free.  

So where'd she get it?

(The other 2 were bought from "CAE free" herds / dams....)

The good news, none of the 3 are symptomatic and they make lovely kids...who also test negative, btw.  
I toss their colostrum and we don't use their milk for bottle babies, EVER...we pasteurize and use it for cooking.

CAE is just one wierd darn disease....seroconversion, etc. :/


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## babsbag (Apr 3, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> CAE is just one wierd darn disease....seroconversion, etc. :/


I agree with that. I have been told that they can be negative one year and positive the next. And you don't have to have an infected goat or be exposed to one for them to convert. 

I am sorry you have a positive doe, but you weren necessarily lied to by your breeder. It could just be one of those unexplainable things about this disease.

Hope your kid gets better.


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## rebelINny (Apr 3, 2011)

I may not have been lied to by the breeder but I am not completely convinced of that. The kid isn't any better this morning and its like his tendons behind his legs are too tightly strung so that they won't bend. His head is wobbly too but that could be because of a rough birth and such. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for everyone's advice.


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## rebelINny (Apr 3, 2011)

Here's a pic of him. See how his first front leg is? The one not as bent as the other? That is as far as they will straighten. He can't hold his head up very well either. It kinda just slings back after a minute of his being up.


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## PattySh (Apr 3, 2011)

Sorry to hear you are having a rough time. I agree his little legs aren't right. There was another post recently about fused legs on a new kid. I'm not sure how it turned out.


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## Be Bop N Bubba (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear about this.  Ive seen this happen one time but with a horse that foaled twins.  Because of the way they were lying and space constrictions the colts legs were fused straight back and the fillys neck had twisted and was fused. It was an awful mess, they lost all three horses.  I know that the vets have a shot for horses to help the muscles on foals that are wind swept.  I hope everything turns out alright.


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## mogolady (Apr 4, 2011)

Windswept in horses will _sometimes_ cure itself.

I think it is do to uneven pressure on the growth plates of the legs while in-utero, resulting in uneven growth. Once they begin to put even pressure on them they can begin to correct themselves. But, not always. You usually put them in a protected, smaller area (stall) and hope they begin to heal as they slowly start to use them. Not sure if vet has medication like above mentioned, they may. Don't know if this might apply to your little guy or not.

You wouldn't think this guy would be crammed up since he was a single but you never know. Praying for him to be kickin' his heels up soon.


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## rebelINny (Apr 5, 2011)

Well here is an update on "Little Butch". I called a vet tech acquaintance and she came and took him to a friend of hers that worked on his dog's legs when they were somewhat similiar and he was able to get the dogs legs fixed in three months by physical therapy and supplements. He talked to a vet and the vet said it doesn't sound like CAE because those symptoms don't start until they are 2-4 months old they aren't born like that. He thinks it is either a bacterial infection causing inflammation to his joints OR a birth defect. So, our plan of action: He is on antibiotics for 2 weeks as well as aspirin for the inflammation and other vitamins and supplements and legs massages. If he improves in two weeks then I guess that was it. If however he doesn't improve then it must be a birth defect in which case I have already set up with a Farm Sanctuary here in Ny that will take him and have him set up for a surgery at the University and then re-home him after he is healed. I am hoping it is bacterial and all will be well in two weeks but if not at least he may still be able to live a happy healthy life even if its not with me.


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## Our7Wonders (Apr 5, 2011)

Jamie,

When I saw your post before it reminded me of something I read recently.  I'm sorry I didn't post it earlier - when you posted it today it reminded me of it. 

This is from Pat Coleby's book "Natural Goat Care".

_Bent Leg in the Newborn (Contracted Tendon)

The kids are born with their front legs bent under them so they stand on their toes - this can affect either one leg or both legs.  The impression is that the flexor tendons are pulled up too tight, which is exactly what has happened.  In extreme cases the leg or legs assume an "S" bend._

She goes on to say it's caused by interference in the correct synthesis in vitamins A and D.

She recommends 1/2 tsp cod liver oil straight in the mouth of a nursing baby or she has a recipe for homemade colostrum that has cod liver oil in it for bottle fed babies.  It doesn't say how long or often it should be given, but says it's usually turned around in a week.

Because it's so simple I would suggest at least giving it a try - it certainly won't hurt.  She suggests making note of the does that produce offspring like this and recommends giving them a cod liver oil booster about 3 weeks before kidding.  She says that should keep the contracted tendons from occuring.  She goes on to say you could give oral cod liver oil or A,D&E injections.  A good CLO is fairly inexpensive and certainly might be worth trying.  We use the Twinlab brand CLO - most any nutrition center will carry it and it's not as spendy as some of the other brands.

I hope you're able to get him to turn around.

edited to add, if you do get the Twinlab brand, look for one that is NOT emulsified.  They carry both.  The emulsified stuff takes quite a bit larger does (Tbsp to tsp if I remember correctly) to get the same amount of vitamins A & D.


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