# Rabbit after pregnancy?



## vkalvacev (Jul 25, 2011)

So my doe had 2 litters, a month in between unfortunately. Most of the older litter went to their new homes (but 2 suddenly died, the worst part is not knowing why or how) and were weaned at around 5 weeks i believe, and she is still nursing her current litter. She is completely in terrible shape. She has so much hair removed (and her nose looked VERY thinly lined with hair when it was wet, practically none) and she still has a large lower abdomen and small dewlap as if shes pregnant again. I know THIS is a ridiculous question, but will her teats "go away" or become very minimal once shes back into shape? Also, how can I get her to be a litter leaner? She's strangely thin and I can feel her spine, yet she eats like a pig! She is a mini rex and had 18 babies -__-.


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Jul 25, 2011)

Oh my goodness, that poor doe! My first question is: Is she in a pen with other rabbits that aren't from her litter (also: is her cage on the floor or up off of any dirt or animal waste?) If she's with any bucks she absolutely needs to be separated so she has some time to recoup. If she stays in with the other animals there's no way, other than spaying and neutering, to break the cycle. 
As for her teats, I'd watch for mastitis (her teats will get hard and swollen and may look a little blue), but I wouldn't worry about them "going away." 
Because she's a doe with a litter, she needs special treatment. She's probably so thin because it's been so much work producing enough milk and havin' babies (that's why dairy animals have that "bony" look). I'd offer her, along with as much rabbit pellets as she'll eat, alfalfa hay, and a mix (we put ours in with the feed; we've never had problems with the rabbits just eating the special stuff) of steam rolled oats (like the regular quaker oats, but not the quick oats), black oil sunflower seed, and if you have them, a few cheerios. Once she's eating that and is separated from any other rabbits (aside from her litter), she should be fine. 
I'd also make sure you're feeding a high fiber feed (most rabbit pellets are) that has anywhere from 16% to 18% crude protein. Your poor little babies that died suddenly may have had ME (mucoid enteritis) which commonly affects young weanlings. It's best to offer high fiber food and alfalfa hay to help prevent it. Young rabbits most often decline rapidly with loose discolored stool and may also grind their teeth. Rabbits will usually die within 2 days  so it can happen suddenly and leave you scratching your head. I lost all but one of my very first litter because of this. 
On another note, I've raised Mini Rexes for about 10 years now and I looooooooove them. They are the sweetest little dumplings!! What color is your doe?
Good luck!! Your doe will love all the special treatment 
Maggie


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## vkalvacev (Jul 25, 2011)

She has her own cage area for herself/her kits, and the pen is used to let her stretch her legs as well as my buck, but at different times/days. As for poor doe, yes, but to my surprise, even though she is still young, she has been a great mother and has lost ZERO babies (and shes a mini rex at that!). And no, they are separated. She managed to jump once, and the next was only a small crack yet she managed to get through! Other than that, no other way she can get pregnant. Also, all I've been feeding her are various veggies from our garden as well as corn/corn leaves, and pellets. I will try your options though. And Im not so sure if thats what caused them to die, I really think either she did something or it was a bee. They always have(had) timothy hay (I dont feed it TOO much, but I do give it once every few days).

I love them as well! I got both mine from a pet store and thought why not breed them since the breed here is scarce and they have the best fur! My buck has THE fur, but may be possibly dwarf, and is all black. My first doe (who, being biased, I did like her a little better but she passed away  ) was white with fawn colored spots (only a few) on her back and around her eyes and on her nose, and my current doe is the same but not fawn - black spots, and has brown on her ears so I guess she's a broken otter. 

This is what she gave me (surprise!)
first litter:
(2) solid black
(1) solid black with white nose
(1) otter
(2) black/white with butterfly
(1) grey/white with butterfly
(1) black/white with no butterfly

second litter:
(2) otter
(3) black
(1) black/white with no butterfly
(1) grey/white with no butterfly
(2) black/white with butterfly
(1) grey/white with butterfly

I'm thinking of breeding her with a BEW next spring/summer or fall, unsure right now, and see what comes of that. I also hope her current babies pick up the buck's fur!! Hers is so thin (liker herself) but his is so soft and makes him look like a chunky butt!


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Jul 25, 2011)

Ah, babies! They are such fun 
It's good that you provide hay for them; it's awesome for them and they certainly enjoy eating it. The oats and sunflower seeds will help her get back into prime (I'll bet when she's in a little better condition her coat will be better too) and will help the babies. 
I would make extra extra sure that she can't into the other pens (rabbits are sneaky guys!!) so you don't have anymore surprises. 
Otters are such pretty colors!! You're lucky to have gotten one. I'll bet the little broken grey ones are broken lilacs (also a chance they are broken lilac otters because the otter gene (at) dominates over the self gene (selfs are black, blue, chocolate, lilac)!). Are you thinking of showing in the future? If you are, I'd find a local mini rex breeder and talk to them to get some ideas. I'd also buy from a breeder if you purchase any rabbits in the future. It gives you someone to talk to about problems (sort of like a lifeline) and someone who's willing to work with you to improve your animals. 
Good luck! 
Maggie

(If you have any questions about mini rexes you can email me and my sister! We've been doin it for a while  )


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## vkalvacev (Jul 25, 2011)

I hope so.. its been thin for a long time! I will probably let the little ones eat some of it too to help their shape. And no no dont worry, theres absolutely no way she can get to the buck anymore, I'm just a little furious since I wanted to "save her" for a BEW in the future and not overdo her with breeding, ESPECIALLY in the summer (tsk tsk, bad timing bunny!). Yeah, I got SO many responses about the otter from the first litter and she has a lovely home now! I'm not sure if they are lilac or blue though, but I doubt blue since there were no solid ones in there. I dont think the first grey and white I had (who is one of the deceased/my favorite  ) the brown on his neck, nor do the 2 I have now (1 is a charlie, who be staying with us). As for showing - I dont think so, if its with horses then yes but any other animals not really my thing. Plus I would probably need my own house, or my parents would kill me for making a zoo out of the backyard (hey, should have gotten land when they had the chance!). Thanks!! My main question was the whole death sitch/why shes so thin and unlike a mini rex coat-wise!


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Jul 26, 2011)

Haha, I know what you mean about the zoo in the backyard!! I started in rabbits because my mother forced me into 4-H, so when she gripes I say "Well mom, you wanted me to join...." 
Anywho, they could have been blues too, there's no reason that they wouldn't be if both the animals carried the right genes. Any color can be broken!  And sometimes you get a fur dud, lol. It happens, I've got one in the barn right now as a matter of fact D: 
Also, something I thought of late last night: Don't feed rabbits under 6 months any sort of fresh food. That's like leafy greens (never ever iceberg lettuce no matter the age of the rabbit), veggies, fruits, anything. Just pellets and hay. Feeding them all that fresh stuff can seriously mess up their digestive system.


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## Ms. Research (Jul 26, 2011)

crazyturkeydesigns said:
			
		

> Haha, I know what you mean about the zoo in the backyard!! I started in rabbits because my mother forced me into 4-H, so when she gripes I say "Well mom, you wanted me to join...."
> Anywho, they could have been blues too, there's no reason that they wouldn't be if both the animals carried the right genes. Any color can be broken!  And sometimes you get a fur dud, lol. It happens, I've got one in the barn right now as a matter of fact D:
> Also, something I thought of late last night: Don't feed rabbits under 6 months any sort of fresh food. That's like leafy greens (never ever iceberg lettuce no matter the age of the rabbit), veggies, fruits, anything. Just pellets and hay. Feeding them all that fresh stuff can seriously mess up their digestive system.


Is it ok to give them SMALL amounts of fresh food.  I started mine at 3 months with wheat grass.  Very, very small amounts.  I have had no problems with it so far.   I will not start giving more until 7 months when I start slowly introducing fruit.  I hear papaya is really good for them.  Thanks again for the reminder about iceberg lettuce.   It's good to know what has NO value for your rabbit.  

I know all breeders have different opinions and I think it's a good rule of thumb to keep rabbits under 6 months on just pellets and hay free choice, but the minerals in wheat grass has been very good for my Little Guy.  Just curious of your views on this.  Thanks.

Edited to say:  Also what are your views of Alfalfa.  I started my two on alfalfa at 12 weeks.  I know it's not good for buns when they become adults.  Too many calories which adds weight.  I've weaned them off at 3 months.  Now just into Oxbow Western Timothy.  The small amount of greens satisfies their "sweet" tooth I created with the alfalfa.  But it did help put on weight and build strength.   They are doing very well and got a clean bill of health from their "Rabbit" vet.  Again I know everyone has a different opinion, but would like to hear yours.  Thanks.  

Please note:  Through all this, I was very pro-active in monitoring their poop to make sure there was no onset of diareaha.  I'm finding out, it's a matter of how you introduce these goodies for them.


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## vkalvacev (Jul 26, 2011)

crazyturkeydesigns - Well, I'm glad I have a semi animal friendly family. Some people love horses, some dont; some want big dogs, some wants none; some think horses dont smell, but dogs do; I'm the animal lover/uniter of my family but gosh is it hard to get them when one says yes and the other says no! Also, I'm hoping to really only breed for pets (and not often, I might do it one more time and thats it but who know) along with my friend using the BEW since I know they cant really be show-able etc. and I just think they make fun colored pets! What is a fur dud?

Ms. Research - I feed timothy, and as I mentioned somewhere, only once in a while. I like to have a variety, and I talked to my family member (who is a breeder and why I trust him) and he said its fine that I introduce greens to them from the start. I just prefer them having a natural diet and none have seemed to ever have a problem with it. Why exactly does this ruin their immune system? We never feed one thing, we allow stuff like corn, a carrot once in a while (sometimes garden fresh, sometimes store bought), pellets ALL THE TIME, lettuce and cabbage (but we dont feed it a lot), etc. Mainly the mom eats it, but it allows them to start chewing on something. Oh, we also feed them dried bread and they love it - they start running everywhere afterwards. It gives them a chance to use their teeth as well.

Anyways, the only reason I have been feeding them that is because it hasnt really become a problem and they all seem to be fine with it when they have access to it.


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Jul 26, 2011)

A fur dud is a rabbit that just doesn't have good fur. It might be super dense but not have the plush feel or it could be thin but plush. Fur is a hard thing to get right, especially when it's tacked on with type/color. 
I've never fed alfalfa (I'm assuming you're talking about those little cubes?), just alfalfa/grass hay. I know people who do and it works fine with their rabbits, and I say if your rabbits like it and seem to do well with it, go for it. Thing about alfalfa is the rabbits get a lot in the pellets so it's not necessarily something you need to offer especially if you're already offering hay. But like I said, if they're doing well, don't fix what's not broken! 
I don't think there's any problem with a little tiny bit of greens at a time, but like you said, it's important to watch em close to see how they handle it. I wouldn't start before three months, though, because their little insides are still building up immunities and developing, so anything that could potentially produce gasses or something they've never eaten before can give them the runs, which can dehydrate them very fast. It's sort of like when you eat that thing you knooow you shouldn't and you have to camp out in the bathroom the next day lol. But like I said, diarrhea is dangerous in babies because it will dehydrate and kill them before you know what hit them.

Whoops, forgot something! It's understandable that you want to feed them a natural diet, but unless you're 100% sure you can meet all of their nutritional needs, I'd stick with pellets and hay and add stuff on the side as a rare treat or for weanlings/moms.


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## vkalvacev (Jul 26, 2011)

Then in that case, they might all be like that but I hope not. Almost the entire first litter had some plush soft nice fur!

No no no cubes. (I dont think your talking to me though lol) I only feed timothy because Ive read alfalfa is too high in nutrition and not good to feed a lot, so I stick to timothy hay. As for the greens - the only reason I keep it natural is because I have seen no diarrhea at all, even now everything is so tiny and round so I dont think it has damaged them at all. Maybe the fact that both the parents were raised that way may contribute to it (I doubt it) but it hasnt been a problem yet, fortunately. I just like them to have different things to munch on as they like, its really up to them what they eat. When the older kits were in the run about a week ago, I would throw in a few pellets (they made a mess of it and spilled it EVERYWHERE, NOT happy about it) and corn or whatever greens we had. The corn especially is always the first thing gone after that night, they usually got sick of any leaves we gave them and left a lot over.


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## Ms. Research (Jul 26, 2011)

Crazyturkeydesign:

Your reply:

*I've never fed alfalfa (I'm assuming you're talking about those little cubes?), just alfalfa/grass hay. I know people who do and it works fine with their rabbits, and I say if your rabbits like it and seem to do well with it, go for it. *



Sorry to get tangled in this important thread, but it was me who asked about alfalfa/grass hay.   I gave them alfalfa/grass hay free choice with timothy hay combined  Their pellets I feed them are timothy as well.   That never varied.  No alfalfa now, but I will give my new buns the same kind of diet as well, but NO greens before 3 months.   It really helped with the weight gain.   I got the cubes just recently because the boys have come to the realization that chewing is fun.  I truly think it's their "nuggets" growing and the hormones flowing.  Giving them the cubes, gives them something to chew on, scratch at and roll around.  It takes their little minds off chewing anything else in the crate.


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Jul 26, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> Crazyturkeydesign:
> 
> Your reply:
> 
> ...


Sorry about the confusion, I forgot to hit the quote button! 
Anywho, I love the bit about the nuggets growing and hormones flowing. That should be some sort of junior buck (heck, who am I kidding, just bucks in general) slogan!!  We've always given them apple sticks (no leaves!!) to chew on and they love them. Our main mini rex buck throws them around his cage and pushes it around and digs it before he actually decides to chew on it. Like I said before, stick to what works for you. When we first started we got overwhelmed with all these different ideas and methods and whatnot and we sort of lost our way and fumbled around for awhile. Once we found what worked for us we've stuck with it and the buns be thriving. You know your bunnies better than anyone else, so if you've found what works stick to it.


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Jul 26, 2011)

vkalvacev said:
			
		

> Then in that case, they might all be like that but I hope not. Almost the entire first litter had some plush soft nice fur!
> 
> No no no cubes. (I dont think your talking to me though lol) I only feed timothy because Ive read alfalfa is too high in nutrition and not good to feed a lot, so I stick to timothy hay. As for the greens - the only reason I keep it natural is because I have seen no diarrhea at all, even now everything is so tiny and round so I dont think it has damaged them at all. Maybe the fact that both the parents were raised that way may contribute to it (I doubt it) but it hasnt been a problem yet, fortunately. I just like them to have different things to munch on as they like, its really up to them what they eat. When the older kits were in the run about a week ago, I would throw in a few pellets (they made a mess of it and spilled it EVERYWHERE, NOT happy about it) and corn or whatever greens we had. The corn especially is always the first thing gone after that night, they usually got sick of any leaves we gave them and left a lot over.


You know, we've had the best results with fur (and type) by breeding a buck who had lots of texture and a doe who had density. One of our worst furred animals came from a cross I was so excited about as both of the animals had amaaaaaaazing fur. I'm glad most of the first litter has nice fur! That seems to be the biggest selling point (along with small size) with the mini rexes. 
If you have multiple rabbits in a pen at a time or a rabbit who has a tendency to spill or dig food (it's funny to watch until you clean out the trays and find little mountains of wasted pellets :/) I'd invest in a automatic feeder or a clip on metal pan. Feed stores usually have them from 5-10 bucks a pop. It will save you a ton of money with food and they are really easy to put on. 
You know, you should post some pictures of these babies. I want to see them!!


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## Ms. Research (Jul 26, 2011)

crazyturkeydesigns said:
			
		

> Ms. Research said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip about the apple sticks.  My little guy will love them.  He sounds a lot like your mini rex.   Does the same exact thing with the cubes.   Thanks for the "relax" reply.  I appreciate it.   I think I found my niche.  Now it's time to sit back and enjoy it.  

And regarding the confusion, oh well, I do it too.  But in the end, message received.  Thanks for the help.


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## vkalvacev (Jul 26, 2011)

Yes yes I've always gotten compliments on my buck having THE softest fur ever from the place I used to take him to get his nails clipped (dont go their monthly like I once did so I do them myself). The doe, like I've said, is more scrawny but the babies have had such nice fur. I did have an automatic feeder but I really didnt like that when it rained, It had no cover and maggots would somehow get in there so I stick to small bowls (its fine with the adults, no spillage) but the babies pee/poop/spill it ALL the time. 

I do have some on my flickr of the first litter (and not all of them yet, will be adding more when I have time + the new litter). The grey and white one (he took the best pictures) is the 2nd one that passed away and the black one (if you scroll way down) with the white snip on his nose was another favorite (of the "black" group) who passed away. I just hope my friend decides to get one of the new guys.. I knew she should have taken him earlier :/ He really was a favorite because of that nose.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29639363@N06/


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Jul 26, 2011)

vkalvacev said:
			
		

> Yes yes I've always gotten compliments on my buck having THE softest fur ever from the place I used to take him to get his nails clipped (dont go their monthly like I once did so I do them myself). The doe, like I've said, is more scrawny but the babies have had such nice fur. I did have an automatic feeder but I really didnt like that when it rained, It had no cover and maggots would somehow get in there so I stick to small bowls (its fine with the adults, no spillage) but the babies pee/poop/spill it ALL the time.
> 
> I do have some on my flickr of the first litter (and not all of them yet, will be adding more when I have time + the new litter). The grey and white one (he took the best pictures) is the 2nd one that passed away and the black one (if you scroll way down) with the white snip on his nose was another favorite (of the "black" group) who passed away. I just hope my friend decides to get one of the new guys.. I knew she should have taken him earlier :/ He really was a favorite because of that nose.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/29639363@N06/


Holy crap those are some seriously awesome photos. The buns are adorable!! Oh, and the little grey ones are blues 
I'd give the auto feeder another go but definitely put it under some sort of cover. As long as it's under something you shouldn't have any problems with feed getting wet or getting pooed in.


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## vkalvacev (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah it took a LOT of experimenting with my camera/running quick enough to catch them coming to you/getting nonblurry pictures lol, yet I cannot get a decent picture of the black ones for an everyday shot (I take pictures everyday, until I cant but the second litter I missed a couple of days so I wouldnt get too dedicated to the project of taking the pics again lol yeah didnt work). But thank you, I seriously appreciate it! And yeah, too dark to be lilac right? Im not sure if I want to only because my rabbits fare well with the bowls I provide and when there are kits, I just put enough for them to fully eat. Maybe In the future, but my doe also overeats so its an easy way to control how much she is getting.


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