# Advice/Opinion on possible pregnancy?



## maritown (Feb 20, 2016)

Okay, I bought two does in mid/late January, the 17th if I remember correctly.  According to seller they are both 2 yrs old and both successfully kid once previously.  He had them with an 8mo buck, so there is a chance they are pregnant.  
Now, my question is this: at least 2 weeks ago one of the does became noticeably lax in her vulva and has stayed that way since.  Sometimes it just looks "loose" but often it is completely open!  She is larger than my other doe and I think her right side hangs lower.  She has been gooping on and off since her vulva loosened and the goop is almost bloody in color, there is often dark red/brown goop dried on her tail.  Her vulva looks a little bloody sometimes but she isn't actively bleeding.  She has not bagged up though I think her udder has grown a bit, that's probably wishful thinking. 
Anyway, my concern is just that her vulva has been slack for so long now and her goop looks so orange.  This isn't my first kidding at all but I've always had girls slacken and goop within days of kidding, and it's already been weeks 
Her ligaments are much looser than my other does and has been for weeks.  There is no odor.  Should I be concerned? Is there a chance she's not pregnant and has an infection? I wish I had an estimate of when she would be due but don't.  How long should I wait before growing concerned? 
She is acting normal and happy but, again, has also been holding her tail at a weird angle for weeks.


----------



## Goatgirl47 (Feb 20, 2016)

Do you have a picture of her from behind? And how long were they with the buck?


----------



## Latestarter (Feb 20, 2016)

@Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice @babsbag @OneFineAcre @frustratedearthmother (@Goatgirl47  just posted)


----------



## maritown (Feb 20, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> Do you have a picture of her from behind? And how long were they with the buck?


I believe since August and he was 8mo when we picked them up.


----------



## maritown (Feb 20, 2016)

I have pics and will post when I get in, the mobile site isn't allowing me


----------



## Goatgirl47 (Feb 20, 2016)

Oh. Then it's a good chance that they are bred. Our buck has been with our goats since early September, and he was 3 months old then. You could do a blood test on them.


----------



## maritown (Feb 20, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> Oh. Then it's a good chance that they are bred. Our buck has been with our goats since early September, and he was 3 months old then. You could do a blood test on them.


I thought at least the one doe definitely was, and that's great, but if so I'm just concerned with how long she's looked "ready to go". 
Maybe she is just different from the other does I've seen kid, and as long as it is healthy and not cause for concern that she has been gooping amber/bloody for weeks and so open in the vulva then I'm happy, but it's strange 
Just wondering at this point, when she is still acting happy and alert how long would be safe to wait to call a vet out.


----------



## Latestarter (Feb 20, 2016)

Is it possible that she could have miscarried one and still have another(s) still in there? Just a thought/question...


----------



## maritown (Feb 20, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Is it possible that she could have miscarried one and still have another(s) still in there? Just a thought/question...


I really don't think so.  She has never been mopey and is either in a large enclosure that is cleaned every day or supervised on pasture.  Unless she did at night at then ate any sign of it and was chipper by morning.


----------



## maritown (Feb 20, 2016)

Okay, finally in!  Don't know why the pics upload sideways but better than nothing?  
Here's the doe, hope you can tell in the bad lighting how open her vulva is and that despite being on the same diet as my others and NOT by any means being the herd queen, she is bigger than the others by far.  The way her udder looks in the pics is how is just a bit bigger than when we got her but it doesn't seem full by any means.  And also the angle that she's holding her tail.


----------



## Goatgirl47 (Feb 20, 2016)

That's strange.  So her udder isn't hard? She definitely looks pregnant, but I've never seen doe with an open vulva like that before. 

@Pearce Pastures @Hens and Roos 

Are her ligaments gone (sorry for the many questions...)?


----------



## maritown (Feb 20, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> That's strange.  So her udder isn't hard? She definitely looks pregnant, but I've never seen doe with an open vulva like that before.
> 
> @Pearce Pastures
> 
> Are her ligaments gone (sorry for the many questions...)?


No, her udder isn't hard.  She also doesn't seem to have any discomfort, I can touch her all over with no complaints.  
Her ligaments are very loose, but not gone. No worries on the questions, I'm stumped too.  When her vulva first opened like this I thought she'd kid any day but now that it's been weeks I'm getting antsy.  
I don't want to call a vet out if she's fine and acting so chipper but I'm also a little nervous since I've never seen it before either 
Maybe I'll wait another week and hope she has a healthy birth


----------



## Pearce Pastures (Feb 20, 2016)

Forgive this description---but I have a doe Lily who for about 3 or 4 weeks before kidding looks like they could walk out of her at any moment.  I mean, it is almost embarrassing to look at--I should get her some undies really. My others are fairly regular looking, maybe  a bit puffy but not "open" until a few days or hours before kidding.  It is just Lily.  Your doe definitely looks to be getting close though.


----------



## maritown (Feb 20, 2016)

Pearce Pastures said:


> Forgive this description---but I have a doe Lily who for about 3 or 4 weeks before kidding looks like they could walk out of her at any moment.  I mean, it is almost embarrassing to look at--I should get her some undies really. My others are fairly regular looking, maybe  a bit puffy but not "open" until a few days or hours before kidding.  It is just Lily.  Your doe definitely looks to be getting close though.


THANK YOU!  I was hoping I had just never been around a doe who was this way; this gives me hope everything is okay and it's just the way she is.


----------



## Pearce Pastures (Feb 20, 2016)

Yup.  My biggest worry with her was that she might get some kind of infection or something, getting all dirty back there but she had no problems.  She kids very easily too so I guess it works for her.


----------



## Latestarter (Feb 20, 2016)

Well gosh, I should hope those babies would fall right out after having 3-4 weeks with the door wide open...


----------



## Goatgirl47 (Mar 26, 2016)

@maritown, has she kidded yet?


----------



## maritown (Mar 28, 2016)

Wow, so weird revisiting this thread, feels like ages ago that her vulva being "open" was the most of my worries.
I'm sad to say that things got worse, and then worse, and then...ten times worse. 
She got a vaginal prolapse.  We had a stitch put in, and under vet orders to cut the stitch when she started producing colostrum. She did, and she also prolapsed out around the stitch, so I cut it thinking she was going to go into labor within 24 hours anyway.  Kept the prolapse clean and free of irritation and it mostly stayed inside. 
Then, she went into labor.  The prolapse totally disappeared thanks to her cervix opening, but after 45 mins of no progression I had the vet out because at this point I had slept in the barn for 3 nights and it was midnight and there was no way my sleep deprived self was going to go in with no one to hold her.  
The vet pulled out two very large but underdeveloped babies, a buck and a doe.  I'm telling you their frames were massive, but they were essentially just skeletal structures with fur.  Their bones were not fully connected and there was no muscle/fat.  They looked like aliens. :-(  The buck was DOA and the doe died shortly after birth.  As sad as those losses were, I thought the stress was over...
No, the next day at around 4pm I went out to the barn (I had JUST been out at 2p) to see her with another dead baby.  I just about ripped my hair out.  The vet had somehow not felt it when she assisted with the other two.  This baby was also somehow fully formed.  We had suspected the other two of being premature, but now we have this third mystery buck who is huge and fully developed, with teeth?  I don't know how the baby passed away, but she had completely cleaned it where as the two previous babies she ignored.  I think the sac may have broken inside of her causing the baby to drown before birth.  I don't think I'll get over that one anytime soon :/. 
She then retained a placenta, we had her flushed, and just finished her loooong penicillin course after she got a horrible infection.  I'm so thankful we didn't lose her, but wow.  Sorry for the late update, but this has been a long month.


----------



## TAH (Mar 28, 2016)

How terrible. It is so sad to loose baby goats. The good is that good always comes out of bad and that your doe mad it. Are you planning on breeding her again?


----------



## Latestarter (Mar 28, 2016)

Dang... You were put through the proverbial ringer! so sorry you lost all the kids and had the med issues with momma goat. You posted that the seller said she had been in with an 8 month buck... Your girl looks like a dwarf/small breed... Did he mention what breed the buck was?  like full sized maybe?    (hmmm wonder if that might be the reason the seller sold? Anticipation of birthing issues? I sure hope not! ) 

So sorry and hope your doe fully recovers. Will you let her try again next year?


----------



## maritown (Mar 28, 2016)

TAH said:


> How terrible. It is so sad to loose baby goats. The good is that good always comes out of bad and that your doe mad it. Are you planning on breeding her again?



We talked it over with the vet and I have decided to rebreed her given at least a full year of rest.  Because we bought her bred there were just so many loose ends (didn't know the buck, no breeding dates etc) that I want to give her one more chance the right way to see if it can work out.  If she prolapses again she will not be bred again.  For now it's just getting weight back on her after the infection and hoping, constantly, that the other doe (who is definitely also pregnant) has a smoother labor.


----------



## maritown (Mar 28, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Dang... You were put through the proverbial ringer! so sorry you lost all the kids and had the med issues with momma goat. You posted that the seller said she had been in with an 8 month buck... Your girl looks like a dwarf/small breed... Did he mention what breed the buck was?  like full sized maybe?    (hmmm wonder if that might be the reason the seller sold? Anticipation of birthing issues? I sure hope not! )
> 
> So sorry and hope your doe fully recovers. Will you let her try again next year?


She is a Nigerian dwarf, and the seller said she was exposed to a nubian.  
I'm kicking myself but also not.  I've been around goats for so long that I knew it was a disaster waiting to happen buying goats bred so improperly but I fell in love and couldn't say no.    I am glad though, because I know she would not have gotten the extensive medical care with previous owner and would not be here today.  
Her previous owner was a man in his 70's who had just lost his wife and could no longer care for his animals.  I talked with him for quite some time and it was clear he truly did not know any better.


----------



## Latestarter (Mar 28, 2016)

OMG... I had so hoped that wasn't what caused it  So sorry the guy lost his wife, but damn. I'll bet his wife had been the goat herder... I hope it was an accident & it probably was... Just a danged shame... I agree, you saved that little doe's life! Nice job on your part  

But now, I have ask... Are you about to go through this again?   Please tell me the next girl up isn't another Nigie that was with the Nubian?    Please keep us informed? Hoping for the best!


----------



## maritown (Mar 28, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> OMG... I had so hoped that wasn't what caused it  So sorry the guy lost his wife, but damn. I'll bet his wife had been the goat herder... I hope it was an accident & it probably was... Just a danged shame... I agree, you saved that little doe's life! Nice job on your part
> 
> But now, I have ask... Are you about to go through this again?   Please tell me the next girl up isn't another Nigie that was with the Nubian?    Please keep us informed? Hoping for the best!



Yep, exact same situation.  They were a package deal.  
She is much smaller than our other doe was when she kid, and her udder has been filling for about a month now, so yes...every morning is a race to the barn to make sure I have not lost my other doe.  I am hoping so much that everything somehow miraculously goes better with her.  I will definitely post updates.  As they are only two years old I have hope that if we can get through this, they can go on to have long, happy, well managed lives and births.


----------



## Latestarter (Mar 28, 2016)

I am so not envious of your position...   I'm not a prayer type guy, but I'll keep you in my thoughts and HOPE that she's only carrying a single and that all goes acceptably considering the situation she (and you) are in...    I'm sure you don't really need another round of vet bills either. Is this another "no idea of dates" situation too? (I mean of COURSE it will be... DUH! )


----------



## norseofcourse (Mar 28, 2016)

Oh my gosh what an ordeal - I'm so sorry you went through this, but very glad you were able to save the doe.  Best thoughts that your other doe's kidding goes well.


----------



## Goatgirl47 (Mar 28, 2016)

I'm so sorry about the outcome of this kidding! Praying that your other doe has a safe and uneventful birth with live kid(s) (she's not a FF, right?)


----------



## maritown (Mar 28, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> I'm so sorry about the outcome of this kidding! Praying that your other doe has a safe and uneventful birth with live kid(s) (she's not a FF, right?)


Thankfully not a FF, that is a small comfort.


----------

