# Getting goats in May and have some feeding questions.



## clr1988 (Mar 29, 2012)

Hi everyone  I have been reading on here for a couple weeks now trying to figure out the RIGHT way to care for my 2 nigerian dwarf goat bucklings that I would be getting in May. I am most confused about what to feed them. There are about 100 different opinions on what to feed them I'm very confused. How do I decide what is right? lol I know that I shouldn't be feeding them grain but they will be kids so I'm guessing I should feed them some type of grain while they're growing? Any advice would be helpful. Thank you


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## AdoptAPitBull (Mar 29, 2012)

I give goat kids some Blue Seal Meat Goat feed for their first few months, then switch to Dairy Goat feed after that. Always have free choice hay, minerals, and water. Since they are bucklings, they will need less grain as they grow as a doe who's going to be pregnant and nursing. Some even choose to not grain bucks at all, or just a tiny bit (like me). Are you going to wether them? If so, they'll need even less. 

If you choose Blue Seal as your feed, there is a feeding chart on their brochure. I follow that somewhat, or at least I did more so when I was just starting out. I like that feed a lot. 

You'll get 100 answers to this question, and chances are none of them will be "wrong". You'll just have to see what they need and how they're doing and go from there.


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## Goatherd (Mar 29, 2012)

> I know that I shouldn't be feeding them grain


Congratulations on your upcoming goats!  As you already heard, there is no right, wrong or absolute ways when it comes to feeding your goats.  As you become an informed goat caretaker, you will need to read, learn and apply what feeding techniques you feel would work best for your animals living in your personal situation.  For some, something as simple as where you live and what items are available to you, such as hay or minerals, will determine what you do.  Not all foods and supplements are available everywhere.

Yes, you will hear many conflicting and controversial ways to do what people think is right.  Take it all in and separate the chaff from the wheat, so to speak.  Many of the ways people feed is determined by whether the goat is a meat goat, milking goat or kept as a pet.  

As far as I'm concerned, the issue of grain is the "hottest" issue you will encounter.  Personally, I grain my goats twice a day, 365 days a year.  Does that make it right?  Absolutely not.  Does is make it wrong?  Absolutely not.  It is what works for me and is my choice.  They also get a smorgasbord of other foods and supplements that round out their diet.

Welcome to the forum and enjoy your learning experience.  You're going to do just fine!


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 29, 2012)

The most important thing is, if you decide to feed grain, make sure it has the proper calcium to phosphorus ratio in it and has ammonia Chloride in the ingredients. I would also purchase some extra ammonia chloride and add that every know and again. It is very cheap. 

If I was using a wether as a long-term pet, I would make sure he wasn't castrated too early, for sure no sooner than 4 months. 

always have fresh water out for him, and salt to encourage drinking water, 

only provide goat grain formulated for growing meat goats. don't let him get into other feeds, like chicken feed or plain corn. (they love corn)

I wouldn't feed more than 2% in their body weight in grain a day. so a 50lb wether wouldn't get more than 1lb of grain a day(about 3 cups). 

And they should always have long stemy forage or hay provided year round all the time.


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 29, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> If I was using a wether as a long-term pet, I would make sure he wasn't castrated too early, for sure no sooner than 4 months.


Sorry if I'm high-jacking, but why wouldn't you want to castrate early?


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## Mamaboid (Mar 29, 2012)

I go the other direction, we only feed grain to pregnant does in the last month or so of their pregnancy, and after they deliver while they are nursing, and if we milk they get grain on the stand.  The kids are getting some grain, but after about 4 months, that will gradually stop.  We feed strictly hay and what they get grazing, and a handful of grain or scratch feed as a treat once in a while or some raisins or carrots.  While grazing, they have access to bushes like honeysuckle and blueberry bushes, and lots of nice green grass on the pond bank and 'golf course'.  Our goats are mostly fainters, easy keepers and good at parasite resistance, and this is just what works for us.  If it didn't work, we would change, and are always open to new ideas we find on here.  If what you are doing keeps your goats happy and healthy and works for you....it is the absolute right way to go.


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## Mamaboid (Mar 29, 2012)

purplequeenvt said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
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Because if you do it too early, it can cause problems with the urinary tract and cause them to get stones and that can be very hard to cure and can kill your goats.  They get blocked up and cannot pee, and it is very painful for your goats.  The older they are when you castrate the more time it gives the ut to grow and develop so it works better with less problems.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 29, 2012)

When I am referring to graining, I am referring to the kids and growing animals, or animals needing to put on condition. Once the stop growing or are over conditioned, I would only feed hay and browse to my pet whethers. 

A good age to stop feeding grain is around 8 to 9 months, or at least drastically cut back. 

We feed grain at the rate of 4% per body weight to our kids or all they will eat a day, which is normally right at 4%. So they get 2 lbs of grain per every 50lbs of body weight, but we are feeding out meat kids and growth rate is what we are shooting for. Not saying everyone that is growing meat goats is feeding them a lot of grain. Their are people that have a lot of adequate pasture/forage and feed less grain or no grain, that is just our approach. But we are using a grain that is considered an all-in-one feed and is designed to be the only feed they get, high in fiber, and formulated to feed out wethers. 

WE have had one kid in 15 years get UC at around 4 months of age. At that time we were castrating at 2 weeks of age, We have sense then started castrating our meat whethers at 6 to 8 weeks of age.  And I know keep extra ammonia Chloride on hand and add extra every know and then to their feed.


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## clr1988 (Mar 29, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your thoughts. They will be castrated and they are being castrated by the breeder at 4 weeks old. They will be strictly pets , notfor meat or anything like that. I'm so worried about UC! Its keeping me up at night and I don't even have them yet lol I know that it is common but is it something that happens to most male goats or is there a good chance it will never happen? How common is it really?


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## Goatherd (Mar 29, 2012)

In a goat that is castrated at 4 weeks, more common than not.  Since they are going to be wether pets, you might want to reconsider the early castration.

The point of waiting longer is that the urethra needs to develop and grow.  When they are castrated so young, the chance of having problems with urinary calcification is greatly increased.


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 29, 2012)

So when is the "best" time to castrate?


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## clr1988 (Mar 29, 2012)

I emailed the breeder to ask if they could wait a little longer to do the castration, but I don't know what she will say. Ugh now I'm worried I made the wrong decision in getting males and I already gave the deposit. :/


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 29, 2012)

clr1988 said:
			
		

> I emailed the breeder to ask if they could wait a little longer to do the castration, but I don't know what she will say. Ugh now I'm worried I made the wrong decision in getting males and I already gave the deposit. :/


There is really no reason for her to have to castrate them that young.


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## clr1988 (Mar 29, 2012)

Yeah ..I'm wondering if I shouldn't just tell her not to castrate and make arrangements to do it when they are around 4 months old. Does anybody know what the average cost is for a vet to come do it? Just curious. I know prices will be different depending on where you live.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 29, 2012)

clr1988 said:
			
		

> Yeah ..I'm wondering if I shouldn't just tell her not to castrate and make arrangements to do it when they are around 4 months old. Does anybody know what the average cost is for a vet to come do it? Just curious. I know prices will be different depending on where you live.


You could also arrange with someone that has banding equipement to just band them at 4 months of age. Maybe a little children's liquid advil a couple times after that for discomfort. I would think you could still get a bander on them at that age, I wouldn't be able to with my boer goats, so I am just assuming they wouldn't be too big for the bander. 

A couple quick phone calls to area vets, would help you with the question about cost.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Mar 29, 2012)

clr1988 said:
			
		

> Yeah ..I'm wondering if I shouldn't just tell her not to castrate and make arrangements to do it when they are around 4 months old. Does anybody know what the average cost is for a vet to come do it? Just curious. I know prices will be different depending on where you live.


If you know some who has a bander, they will most likely do it for you for very little cost.  I have a neighbor who has the bander and he comes and does mine for me.


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## nomad (Mar 29, 2012)

clr1988 said:
			
		

> Hi everyone  I have been reading on here for a couple weeks now trying to figure out the RIGHT way to care for my 2 nigerian dwarf goat bucklings that I would be getting in May. I am most confused about what to feed them. There are about 100 different opinions on what to feed them I'm very confused. How do I decide what is right? lol I know that I shouldn't be feeding them grain but they will be kids so I'm guessing I should feed them some type of grain while they're growing? Any advice would be helpful. Thank you


Rather than leading the witness, I believe it prudent to ask some questions to determine what it is that you expect from your new venture.  You stated "I know that I shouldn't be feeding them grain".  How did you come to that conclusion?  You seemed to be very convinced of your stance.  Why later did you appear to concede on this point and "guess" that you should be feeding grain?  I think our biggest problem today is that we are much too hesitant to take a firm stand on a particular subject and then work to prove its merits (if they exist).  If we find that our position was not correct then we must change course and seek a right path that leads to success.  There are, of course, right and wrong answers in life - there has to be or our world would be chaotic.  Would it be deemed right to feed a newborn child a steak and mashed potatoes?  Or for you to drink a quart of gasoline to quench your thirst?  We easily know the answers to such questions, yet we balk when confronted with "right or wrongs" in many other areas in life simply because it is a little more complex and does not have the easy answer.  It is in the quest for truth (about anything) that we learn much about ourselves.

Have you also considered what type of shelter and fencing would be necessary?  As an example of "right or wrong", it would certainly not be wise to run 5 strands of barbed wire and expect them to be contained.  That is not because I said it was wrong - it is because the goats said it is wrong (a cow, however, would say you are right).   Each animal should be treated in a manner that  is consistent with its anatomy, physiology, personalities, strengths, and weaknesses.  Mastering the animal entails understanding how that animal functions in its environment.  These are topics that must be explored in order for you to be successful in your venture.  

Personally, I only feed grass and hay to my goats, sheep, and cattle.  I do not vaccinate, medicate, or deworm any of my animals anymore.  My mission statement for my farm states "Produce healthy, environmentally sustainable food for myself and my family while leaving a light footprint upon this earth so as to work with nature rather than oppose it."  In my early days of farming, I followed "conventional wisdom" and farmed like everyone else.  My wife and I spent many frustrating evenings discussing why we were not in a sound financial position (relative to the farming operation), stressed over which medications to give (and why sometimes they worked and sometimes they didn't), and why the land that I was running my animals on seemed to disappoint in its ability to provide a return and had become a money pit.  It took me several years of researching, asking many questions, trying several different approaches, and sticking with what has firmly worked for me to finally reach the position that I have.  Truth is out there if we will only seek it and I guarantee it will not disappoint.

I wish you much success in your venture.


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## Pearce Pastures (Mar 29, 2012)

Goatherd said:
			
		

> > I know that I shouldn't be feeding them grain
> 
> 
> Congratulations on your upcoming goats!  As you already heard, there is no right, wrong or absolute ways when it comes to feeding your goats.  As you become an informed goat caretaker, you will need to read, learn and apply what feeding techniques you feel would work best for your animals living in your personal situation.  For some, something as simple as where you live and what items are available to you, such as hay or minerals, will determine what you do.  Not all foods and supplements are available everywhere.
> ...


I agree...you will hear lots of varying opinions and even see contradictory studies on this and on other topics but you are doing just fine.  The important thing is that you are trying to learn, even if you end up changing your mind and going a different route later on.  We just got our first bucks and were trying to figure out the feeding thing for them (and were certainly more worried than we probably needed to be).  I started out for two weeks giving the boys only good quality hay and water, but then decided to go ahead and give them a little grain mix once a day along with a dash of ammonium chloride (which may be more of a peace of mind thing for me, but what works individually is all that matters so feel good about whatever you decide and don't let anyone make you feel foolish for it     )

I do think that 4 weeks is early for banding.  Again, there is a lot of variance on when is the right time---some say 8 weeks, others say 4 months---it wouldn't hurt to just tell the people what you want and see how they respond. They will probably understand and be happy to accommodate.


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## clr1988 (Mar 30, 2012)

I talked to the breeder and we are going to hold off on banding them for a couple of weeks which makes me feel a little better
Again, thanks everyone for your advice and opinions. I just want them to be happy and healthy!


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## Queen Mum (Mar 30, 2012)

I work with pack goats and with a veterinarian who is great with goats.  She doesn't advice castration until at least 3 months at least in order to give the bucks time for their urinary tract to grow to maturity.  She actually prefers 6 months as do I.  Yes, they are more "bucky" by then but they seem consistently to have less problem with Urinary Calculii and other infections of the urinary tract system.  

It is more painful (not much) for them at that age, but it is less problematic in the long run.  That's my experience.


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 30, 2012)

Can you still band them at 4-6 months?


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 30, 2012)

I really think castrating age is a crap shoot.  We lost our first ever goat to stones, and he was castrated at an early age and got grain.  Our next wether was also castrated early, ate grain, and never had any issues.  This is before we knew about proper Ca ratios or anything like that.  Early castration doesn't mean a death sentence (or a stone sentence).


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 30, 2012)

Also, I waited until 4 months to band my wether last year, and his testicles were too big to do them with my bander. I had to pay the vet to do it, and he had complications from it since his testicles were so big (infection).  I would never wait that long again, but that's my personal opinion.


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## Goatherd (Mar 30, 2012)

> Yeah ..I'm wondering if I shouldn't just tell her not to castrate and make arrangements to do it when they are around 4 months old. Does anybody know what the average cost is for a vet to come do it? Just curious. I know prices will be different depending on where you live.


I had my buck castrated surgically when he was about 18 months old.  I used him to breed my does and rather than sell him or pass him along, I wanted to keep him, as far as goats are concerned, he was a very sweet and gentle buck.  I only have one large pasture and didn't want to separate him by himself or keep another wether for company.  I wanted him to run with the does as he always did.  That being said...

I took him into the vet's office rather than having her come here to do it.  I did this for two reasons...it saved me a few dollars on a farm visit and I felt that if it was done in the office and there were any complications, they would have the supplies, equipment, etc. on hand to assist him. I also live very close to the vet's office. The office visit, surgery, anesthesia and pain meds were roughly $90.  He was groggy for a few days an laid around just resting.  After about 4 days he rallied and was his old self.  No antibiotics were used as he didn't develop any infection.

When my does come into heat he still mounts and "breeds" them as he always did.  We just don't have kids from him any more.

I didn't go into detail before, but my feeding him grain is less of a concern for me as he was fully developed and ammonium chloride is  a regular part of his diet as well as the does.


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