# Orphaned calf



## julierx1 (Dec 13, 2012)

We have a cow who calved yesterday. In the past several yrs all her calves die so this yr we do not want to mess up. This morning we took him from her momma and momma didnt even care.  Just took a bottle out to her and calf drank all 2 qts!!  No problem at all.  We are not sure if she got any colostrum or not and was wondering what a good recipe is!  I do have powdered goat colostrum on hand right now and thought about trying that.  Does anyone know if I can do this??


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## WildRoseBeef (Dec 13, 2012)

Why are you even bothering keeping a cow that won't accept her calf (no, make that _calves_), or even give a rat's behind that her calf is being taken away??  You've kept this cow for how many years because why?  I really hope you consider growing some wheels on that cow so that you don't have to do this nor have to experience losses like this again.

What breed is she, btw?  Sorry for being so harsh-sounding but I highly recommend you do something about that cow...it's certainly something I would've done from the very beginning!

Goat milk will be fine, but cow colostrum is best for this calf, not goat.  Calf's a bovine, not a caprine.


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## LadyIsabelle2011 (Dec 13, 2012)

Poor lil baby, sounds like he was starving, especially if he took to the bottle so quickly. Sorry, I don't know any recipes myself but i wish you luck with your calf


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## julierx1 (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks but we are not having a whole lot of luck here tonight.  She is scouring really bad and denied the bottle later today. We  did give a shot of La 300 because we suspect that the cold got to her last night while w/ mom on empty stomach. We can only do so much so I will keep u posted!   I didnt get a chance to pick up colostrum today from town but she was probably over 24 hrs old when we got to her.  I did on the other hand have some kid colostrum powder here at the house and that is what she wouldnt take this afternoon.  Gonna try again here in a little bit when I go out to bottle feed my baby goat. Hopefully she will take enough to get her thru the night!


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## julierx1 (Dec 13, 2012)

We have had in mind of getting rid of her but  things here on the farm have kinda of gotten out of hand this past yr.  She has had 2 calves in the past but kept them so far away on the hill it was pathetic! She is defffinately leaving this time!!!  Black Angus


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## LadyIsabelle2011 (Dec 13, 2012)

If she is a meat breed and abandoning her calves I would definitely think about giving her the boot. Although, If she is valuable, you might want to check for health reasons, if she has raised calves in the past but started abandoning them within the past years there may be a problem you can't see. 

Sorry to hear about the scours, do you know any friends/neighbors around who might have cows that just gave birth or hand raises calves, they might have some colostrum they will share with you as well as some good advice, who knows, he might just not like the smell of the goat colostrum.  Just a thought since I have no good advice myself. 

I'm not a cow person so any advice I give is probably not the best


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## redtailgal (Dec 13, 2012)

The calf is probably scouring because he had two quarts at once. That is too much for a newborn, and too much for a stressed and cold calf.  Overfeeding is, in my opinion, the number one killer of orphan calves.  If you are ever in doubt, remember it's better to have a calf that is a little bit hungry that it is to have a dead calf.  Always feed weak stuff in small portions at first, and build up to larger amounts of the strong stuff.

 Cut his milk out for 24 hours, give him only electrolytes in his bottle so he doesnt dehydrate and let his gut settle down.  I know with holding food on such a little guy will be hard, but he will quickly dehydrate if you dont with-hold the milk.  You wouldnt want to eat when you have the runs and an upset tummy, so dont try to force him.  Just keep him hydrated for now.

After 24 hours, give him 1 quart of half strength milk or replacer, do this for 24 hours.

Then give 1 quart of slightly strong milk or replacer for 24 hours.

Then give 1 quart of full strength milk or replacer for 24 hours.

Then give 1 1/2 quart of full strength milk or replacer for 48 hours.

Then give 2 quarts of full strength milk or replacer.  

When I say "give 1 quart or 1 1/2 quart", I mean that much EACH feeding.  Make sure that his belly is empty when you feed him again.....go at least 6 hours between bottles.

It's too late to worry about colostrum.  You should get some bovine electrolytes, or some clear gator-aide for the electrolyte substitute.  It's very important to with hold that milk for the full 24 hours, so his digestive tract can completely empty and rest.  

Get some yogurt or probios (at the feed store).  If you use yogurt, get a brand that advertises for "digestive health", and add 1/2 of a small cup to EACH bottle for at least a week (any flavor).

And I would have that cow on the trailor and to a slaughterhouse, post-haste!

Poor little guy!  Take your time in re-introducing food, dont rush it.  He/She can still pull thru this and with a little TLC may turn out just fine.

  I feel for ya......I hate having a weak little one.


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## WildRoseBeef (Dec 13, 2012)

julierx1 said:
			
		

> We have had in mind of getting rid of her but  things here on the farm have kinda of gotten out of hand this past yr.  She has had 2 calves in the past but kept them so far away on the hill it was pathetic! She is defffinately leaving this time!!!  Black Angus


How old is she? If you get rid of her it'll be less of a headache for you and your farm and things may get more in hand for you.  

Definitely agree with the overfeeding part of this calf.  I heard somewhere (probably here) the best thing to do for a calf is to feed it enough that it's still a little hungry.  Or something to that effect.


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## jhm47 (Dec 13, 2012)

As I read the original post, I fully expected to soon be reading about scours.  Feeding a calf that probably didn't receive colostrum in it's first feeding, and then giving it 2 quarts of milk replacer at it's first feeding is a sure recipe for disaster.  I agree with RTG and WRB that you need to give ONLY electrolytes, and only ONE quart per feeding for a couple days.  Hope you can save the little one, but if you don't, just learn from your past mistakes like the rest of us have done.  I've certainly made my share of mistakes over the years.


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## julierx1 (Dec 14, 2012)

At last nights feeding the calf would not take anything but had a little snooty nose. My husband did give her a shot of La 300 and we left her for the night. As of this morning ( still not checking on here for updates) I went out w/ 1 pint milk thinking it was a lost cause. But she sucked it down w/ no hesitation. I mixed up a bit more and tried but didnt want it. She is still scouring and is a little shivery ( maybe chilling) her nose is warm though and w/ the first bottle this morning, she chased me out the barn door.  Do i need to give her another shot?  and my next attempt will be electroliytes!!


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## jhm47 (Dec 14, 2012)

One shot of LA 200, given subcutaneously will last her for 3 days.  I am not familiar with LA 300, but suspect that you may have made a typographical error.


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## redtailgal (Dec 14, 2012)

Please, no more milk while she is scouring and definately do the electrolytes.  I HIGHLY recommend that you go by the protocol in my previous post.

With her nose being snotty, be sure to encourage her to get up and walk, it will help prevent pneumonia.


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## julierx1 (Dec 15, 2012)

Update on the calf. I gave 1 pint 4 different times yesterday of electrolytes.  It was hard to get her to take bottle but after a bit of work she did.  This morning I go out and find her standing ( which didnt happen yesterday without help) She came to me and started nursing instantly. I gave her 2 pints electrolytes. I did see where she had scoured thru the night. The scours are slimy yellow but dont notice a real nasty smell.  She was running and jumping after the bottle and chasing my little goats. My question is how long to do electrolyetes?  I will be giving yogurt today also. How else to stop scours and when to give milk?


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## redtailgal (Dec 15, 2012)

If she is still scouring, continue just the electrolytes for another 24 hours.  Then reintroduce the milk as I stated above, staying at the half strength portions until she stops scouring, then proceed as stated above.

You can get her some sulfa pills or a product called "scour halt" or "scour stop" at the farm store, or by this time, you could give her a dose of Bepto (I'd giver her about 3 tablespoons).  I wouldnt do the pepto for more than three doses, as too much will constipate them.......constipation is far worse than scours.

I'm glad to hear she is up and moving!


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## julierx1 (Dec 15, 2012)

Update on Baabette. After giving the electrolytes for 24 hrs. I gave her 1 1/2 pints of diluted milk replacer. 50/50   She is still scouring but so much more energetic. She ran and played all day with the goats. She also is starting to nibble hay and I found her earlier sipping from the water trough.  My plan is to go back to electrolytes for the morning bottle, but Im at my witts end here. I usually am the one doctoring goats so I dont know much about calves.  After 24 more hrs of electrolytes I will try milk again. I did give pepto today also. Is there a good recipe for electrolytes?  Buying it for goats is so much less expensive then calves!


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## redtailgal (Dec 15, 2012)

At this point, I'd switch her over to some gatoraide.  The powdered form of gatoraide is pretty cheap around here.

Glad to here she is doing better.  It may take a couple days for her gut to settle.  Are you doing the probios or yogurt.......if your not, get a couple containers, it should help quite a bit.


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## herdsman (Dec 16, 2012)

Awsome that this one survived I had a hereford like that


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## julierx1 (Dec 16, 2012)

She seems to be getting more and more active. She is still getting morning and evening bottle of electrolytes but mid day bottle of diluted milk.  She is still scouring but it looks maybe a little thicker and a little darker in color but not much. Can someone tell me what the normal poop looks like in a 5-6 day old calf


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## redtailgal (Dec 16, 2012)

Normal poop, lol.  Isnt it lovely the things we talk about without even thinking about it?  

Normal calf poop can vary greatly depending on the feed/milk, location, age, and even the calf itself.  Of course, a milk fed calf is not going to make very solid poop.  If I have a calf that has non bloody, non smelly (within reason, it aint gonna smell like roses, ya know) poop that is at least as thick as pudding I am happy.  As far as color, it can be a little yellow esp if you are feeding cow milk and not replacer, but should not be YELLOW YELLOW......that means they are getting too much milk. Green means too much grass or other forage.  It should not have a horrid smell, that means coccidia or other infections.  It should not have blood or mucous, that means coccidia or some other parasite.  It should not be black, this* normally* means a blood sucking gut parasite.  The calf should fart occasionally but should not sound like it's rear end is exploding when it poops.......this means scours are coming.  Grey usually indicates a mineral imbalance or a toxicity issue.

My rule of thumb with calves.......if they poop and it doesnt SOUND gross (think plop not splat and a small gasy toot, not ffffffffffhhhhhhhttttttshhhhh), SMELL gross, or look gross, it's all good.

Yeah, I guess that doesnt clear it up too much for ya, but well, thats how it is here.    And on this farm "normal poop" is called "purty poop".......we'll say something like "thank GOODNESS!  That scouring snot is finally pooping purty!"  

Dont be shy......if your in doubt, take a pic of a FRESH poop and show it to us.  We are not squeamish.


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## julierx1 (Dec 16, 2012)

I will probably need to take the pic for you all to see. From the way you describe it, I believe it is ok but want to make sure!  Thanks again


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## heatherlynnky (Dec 16, 2012)

If you can get something called SMZ tablets from a vet to add to any bottles or electrolytes you give they help huge with bottle babies. I had one I thought we were going to lose. Actually the vet said just give up. Called my brother who does have experience and he drove close to an hour to come help me out. He called a friend of his who runs a dairy farm and is actually a farm vet. He only does farm animals and nothing else.  Mine gets a tablet in each bottle and she went from could not stand and rattling sound in her chest to being all sorts of playful and into trouble.  From what I can tell its some type of sulfur tablet and apparently it keeps something from growing down in the gut that causes scours and pneumonia. I will be honest  anything that starts to sound to graphic for me I just get dizzy and tune them out so.... but they work. My brother swears by them for all his bottle babies and he tries to avoid having those in the first place. I agree I would get rid of the gal if she is not doing her job. Every bottle baby we have had struggled with scours and its a ton of work pulling them through when it gets bad.

Also I was told ignore the directions on the milk replacer and cut the powder down just a bit. Old guy that decided to adopt us a bit and help us newbies out told me cut the powder just a little bit because he always found it was a bit too strong for their bellies. The vet had us do half milk replacer and half electrolytes for well over a week before we were to slowly up the amount of milk replacer and cut back on the electrolytes.   I have easily bottle fed goats and we used no replacer at all. I used whole cows milk and it worked very well.  Also for strength and vitamines I always add a touch of molassas and some powdered probiotics. I do it to the kids so I do it to the goat kids and the calves too. I am new at the calves but just went through this so I thought I would share.


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## Cricket (Dec 17, 2012)

we've been using sulfameth/trimeth-tablets once a day--they've been a wonder! 

The milk replacer directions say that the lines on the provided cup are just a guide and that you should weigh the replacer.  I did years ago and it was right on.  This winter I weighed it and it weighed much heavier.  Don't know if my scale is off, or  . . . ?  It might be worth checking when you get a new bag.

Edit: 1 inch below black line is 8oz, black 8 oz. line is at least 10 oz.  Checked scale against something and it was right on.  It may not make a difference on a good size calf, but if you're tweaking a small one along, I'd feel it was significant.


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## redtailgal (Dec 17, 2012)

hmmm.  I've never weighed the replacer.  I've always used the measuring cups provided in the bags, but have always EASED calves into full strength portions and remained as consistent as possible with my measuring.  I've raised more calves than I can count.  In my experiences, scours have never been about how the replacer is mixed, but more about overfeeding, starting too much or too strong formula too fast, or poorly cleaned equipment.

I tend to stay away from soy based replacer......they are harder to digest and seem to cause more frequent and more severe scours.

I am curious, those of you who weigh the replacer.........how far "off" are the actual measurements?


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## julierx1 (Dec 17, 2012)

Calf seems to be doing much better. She is getting 1 1/2 quarts diluted replacer 3 times a day and I believe that after this morning Im stoppiong the electrolytes and rying just milk for a bit. I did give scour ease this afternoon and will do the same tonight but her poop is getting pretty norm to me. It is puddling on the hay instead of falling thru it.  My next step is to introduce her to some calf starter and also teach her to drink from water container. I thought she did this the other day but not sure now. Everytime I attempt, she refuses but loves cold water from bottle. Any suggestions on how to teach her this?


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## redtailgal (Dec 17, 2012)

Yup.  Quit giving her a bottle!  No seriously........Quit giving her a bottle, teach her to drink her milk from a bucket.  Here's how:

Get a helper the first couple times.  Pour about half your milk into the bucket.  Let her start sucking your fingers, and lower those fingers into the milk (Have your helper holding the bucket tight).  She'll slurp up a snoot full of milk (dont have your face over her, she may startle and bring her head up real quick.  It does not feel good on the nose. Trust me on this.  :/ )   You may have to use your fingers to entice her for a few times, stick with it.  Most of my calves "get it" on the first bucket, but a few need a couple feedings to get it figured out.  STICK WITH IT....dont start with the bucket and resort to the bottle.

Having her off the bottle and on the bucket will benefit you in several ways......first she will learn to drink out of that bucket and be able to drink water whenever she needs it.  Second......she will see that bucket as FOOD.....and you can start putting some calf starter in it.  Because the calf starter is in the FOOD bucket, she will instantly be curious and will probably want to taste that weird new milk.  Get her on a bucket and she'll eat her grain better, wean easier and have a head start on her weight gain. (My bucket babies are always heavier than any that I leave on the bottle).

Glad she is feeling better. Ya did good!


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## julierx1 (Dec 18, 2012)

New question about Baabette. She is doing wonderful now and her poo is thick and normal. I have been giving 3 bottles a day w/ 1 quart sometimes 1 1/2  of diluted milk. I would like to start 2 bottles a day but not sure how to go about it. Do i switch all together and also would like to go back to undiluted milk


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## redtailgal (Dec 18, 2012)

At this point, I'd just switch to two 2 quart bottles a day.  Give it to her full strength but watch her closely and dilute it if she starts getting loose again.


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## julierx1 (Dec 18, 2012)

Well as of tonight it is a bit loose again. Havent had electrolytes since Monday morn. bottle but milk has been a little diluted. I think I will go back to major diluting of bottles and try 2 times a day and watch and see. Thanks for ur info. It has been alot of help


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## redtailgal (Dec 19, 2012)

Pick up some corrid or di-meth and give her a run of that (for coccidia) .  You'll have to pour it down her throat, dont add it to her bottle, it tastes NASTY.   You can use a large syringe (without the needle, of course).  Put the tip as far back in her throat as you can.  You'll need to repeat this med for several days in a row. Follow the directions on your packaging.  DONT put it in her bottle.....it will quickly teach her to hate her bottle.

and are you using probios or yogurt?  If not, I really suggest you do it.  It will help her.


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