# Not sure I am doing this right???



## Happy Farming Momma (Feb 16, 2012)

I just got these two baby boy goats last Friday  and they were born/kidded the Friday before that. The breeder told me about Kiefer, do any of you know what this is? Or is this somthing she may have come up with? I am not sure if I should just give them warm whole cows milk in their bottles or keep mixing this kiefer stuff in with it?  Any help, ideas or smack up side the head would be great, thanks?

Also my other problem, (not sure if I need to post this in a different spot, please move if nessesary)The breeder told me to bring them back in a few days to have them banded and have their buds burned (eww) off. But now she wont call me back or answer the phone!  I think I can live with out having the horns done but I NEED them banded. Is that something that is easy to learn and that I could do myself?

Just as an FYI they are Oberhaslis goats! As you can probably tell I am new to the goat side of things but am doing dariy goats.

                                                          Thanks so very much
                                                             Happy Farming Momma


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## PotterWatch (Feb 16, 2012)

Kefir is kind of like liquidy yogurt.  It has beneficial bacteria in it that helps keep the rumen working well.  I don't know that you need to keep adding it, I'm not super experienced with goats in general and I've never had a bottle baby.  Hopefully someone else will chime in with an answer on that.

As far as banding and disbudding, maybe you can find someone else near you who can do it for you if you can't reach the breeder.  Banding isn't difficult, but you do need the tool and bands to do it.  Same thing with disbudding, you need the iron and a little know-how.


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## Chickenfever (Feb 16, 2012)

I know it's best to wait on banding until they are a little older to let their urethras to grow, I wouldn't do it at two weeks old.  And as far as dis-budding, you need to do that ASAP or it's going to be too late, it should really be done (especially on boys) as soon as you can feel the horn buds with is usually at just a few days old.


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## Happy Farming Momma (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks for responding. Yeah, I found how to do the banding and I have the tools from my inlaws (moved so they can't help) But I also watched a video on how to do it.......... I am not quite at the point were I can do somthing like that yet. Some day though!

But if any one knows if I should continue with the Kiefer or not that would be great! Again, Thanks a bunches


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## Chirpy (Feb 16, 2012)

Some people are for horns some are against horns.  I'm on the against side as I've seen the damage a goat can do to a human (adult or child) or other animals when they tossed their head (on accident or not) and their horn hit someone.  Horns are also more likely to get the goat stuck in a fence.  It's also harder to sell horned goats around here - so you need to think about the future of the goat if you leave their horns.   You need to educate yourself on the pros and cons of horns and make your own decision.

If you chose to disbud - it needs to be done in the first two weeks... as stated above, when you can start to feel the buds.  It takes the right equipment (I like the Rhinehart disbudders the best) and some experience but you CAN do it.  There are some good videos on youtube to help you.

I didn't band my boys until they were closer to eight weeks of age until I learned (last year from my experienced mentor/breeder) that you are more likely to have scurs if you wait that long to band your boys.   He's been breeding Nigerian Dwarfs for 20 some years and has only once had a wether/buckling that he sold to someone end up with UC.  He makes sure that the owners know how important the proper feed is and only one person ignored his information... that was the one wether that ended up with UC.  (I will admit that I'm still questioning that since I've heard so much counter to banding earlier... I'm still 'educating' myself before I make the actual decision to do it earlier this year.)

Hopefully your breeder will call you back quickly and help you with these things and/or you'll get advice from other experienced goat owners here.

Edited to add:

Just saw your post above (posted while I was typing)... banding is actually very easy.  The biggest issue is to make SURE that both testes are pulled down into the band and that you don't have any teats in the band when you let it shut.  Have someone hold the buckling upright (on their back legs with their front legs in the air) and tilted a little frontwards so you have good access to him, but also have gravity helping you, and make sure the band itself is as close to the end of the bander as possible so that it comes off easier.   Don't hurry the process - you don't want to have to cut off a band and start over.   It really helps to have someone calm and strong holding the little dude.


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## Happy Farming Momma (Feb 16, 2012)

Thanks Chirpy,

 What I ment by me not being able to do it yet is just because of the lil babies screaming in pain! But I will get there and will be able to do it my self at some point!

You had a lot of great info for me thank you so much!

Still looking for info on if I should continue the Kiefer?


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## PotterWatch (Feb 16, 2012)

Chirpy said:
			
		

> I didn't band my boys until they were closer to eight weeks of age until I learned (last year from my experienced mentor/breeder) that you are more likely to have scurs if you wait that long to band your boys.


I thought scurs had to do with being disbudded improperly, not banding... :/


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## peteyfoozer (Feb 16, 2012)

I don't think the kiefer is necessary to keep giving them. If you have to give them antibiotics or something, I would give them that, or some yogurt to help with the gut bacteria, but otherwise I'd just keep giving them their bottles.


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## Chirpy (Feb 16, 2012)

PotterWatch said:  





> I thought scurs had to do with being disbudded improperly, not banding...


Me too - and that is true...   but he explained to me that since bucks (and bucklings) have a higher testosterone level it actually is harder to properly disbud a buckling over a wether.   Even though you disbud before you disband (according to him only by a couple of weeks) - there is less likelihood of scurs growing on a wether.  He also disbuds kids that he is keeping as bucks different than the kids he's going to wether.   He uses a 'figure 8' to burn the scent glands off behind the horns on bucklings.  I haven't done that yet as I've wethered all my boys.

Happy Farming Momma said:  





> What I ment by me not being able to do it yet is just because of the lil babies screaming in pain! But I will get there and will be able to do it my self at some point!


Yes, I actually figured that is what you meant.   I felt the same way but... after banding 1/2 dozen little boys in the last two years I've seen that they don't scream (at least none of them that I banded did); sometimes afterwards they would cry for a little while - some didn't ever make a sound.   Most of them laid around for the rest of that day but all of them acted completely normal by the next day.  It helps to get them right back to momma; if they are being dam raised or give them a bottle immediately if they are being bottle raised.

You will be able to do it when you are ready!


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## Happy Farming Momma (Feb 16, 2012)

You guys are all so great  Thank you so much for all your help! 

The boys will be getting debudded tomorrow, and I decided that I will keep some kiefer to comfort them tomorrow after it is done!:bun


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## PotterWatch (Feb 16, 2012)

Chirpy said:
			
		

> PotterWatch said:
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Interesting!  I would not have thought of that.


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## Queen Mum (Feb 16, 2012)

I raise packgoats.  I don't band (castrate) until the buck is at least 3 months old.  It gives the boys a longer time to develop a good urinary tract.


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## Happy Farming Momma (Feb 17, 2012)

Thank you, and no I wont have them banded untill between 2-3 months old!


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## aggieterpkatie (Feb 17, 2012)

Where are you located, Happy?  I have oberhaslis too, and love them.  My doe just kidded with twin bucks on Friday.  Need a buck?


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## Happy Farming Momma (Feb 17, 2012)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> Where are you located, Happy?  I have oberhaslis too, and love them.  My doe just kidded with twin bucks on Friday.  Need a buck?


I am in Mill Creek, Wa. Found 7 acres right in the middle of town. How about you, where are you and your herd?


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