# Thinking about an LGD, need advice



## Amp (Feb 11, 2013)

We have recently started having some trouble with wild dogs.  There is a creek that runs through some property a few miles from us and people have started dumping dogs around there.  Over the last several months we have spotted them in our pasture at least once a week.  They have never came up to our goats pens but they are starting to get a little closer and yesterday I walked outside to them chasing a deer closer to our pens than I am comfortable with.  We are getting ready to fence in about 2 acres for our goats because we are growing our herd.  I'm convinced that we really do need an LGD but I have some concerns and would like to get advice/opinions.  I have 3 boys 5 and under and we are out with the animals most of the day so I need a dog that is well around wild boys.  We also have a large lab that is my other baby and he likes to hang out in the pens around the animals with us.  The pasture we use actually belongs to my parents and they live 2 houses over from us.  They keep 3-5 cows and I worry about the dog around them.  I plan to keep the dog in the 2 acres and barn but is it possible to train the LGD to be okay with the cows even though they won't be in his pasture?  Thanks in advance


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## BrownSheep (Feb 11, 2013)

Your dog ( if you start it as a puppy) will be acclimated to what ever you raise it with.  LGD's have a very calm disposition and are often very protective of their family as well.
Until, you can get a LGD I would a) contact the local animal warden and b) keep some sort of deterrent by the door. Be it a gun, a bat, or even a broom.


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## SassyKat6181 (Feb 11, 2013)

I was at a farm recently and they raise great pyrenees.  Very friendly and great at protecting the herds.  The young buck pen had an anatolian shepard in with them and it was the worst dog.  Very hyper, trying to get through the fence to me, and very snippy with the goats.  The farmer said it was her second anatolian and she will never have another.  With small children, you may want to consider the great pyr.  

I also have a neighbor up the road and he has 3 llamas that range with his goats and they protect them very well.  Maybe that could be an option for you too.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 11, 2013)

We have 3 pyrs and an Anatolian. Our Anatolian is wonderful. I do prefer females over males with the anatolians and male pyrs over female pyrs. 
Some of if it is individual traits in the LGD, some of it is in the owning raising and training of the LGD.
As far as the two breeds there are advantages and disadvantages to both.  Anatolians are wonderful dogs. 

With your children being young I would recommend a pup or a mature dog that has been raised in a family ranch/farm capacity. These dogs are different than any other dogs. They require a certain level of understanding of their nature and how they work and think.


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## Amp (Feb 11, 2013)

Thank you


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## woodsie (Feb 11, 2013)

I would second the vote for the Great Pyr with kids...they have been the only LGD we have had (can't say anything about the other breeds) but they have been EXCELLENT with our kids. My youngest (boy) crawled over and rides on the back of my male Pyr all the time...even good with new kids. We have had 2 males and one female and I prefer our males over our female (she's still young, maybe she will get better with time)..however they do wander they REQUIRE a GOOD fence. (Mine ran away today, 3km in a very short time the very first time they have escaped, so I have to relook at my fencing situation).

The only issue was sometimes they "paw" for attention but can be trained out of it....can be dangerous a giant paw coming at the kids, they are looking for one more pet....nip it in the bud right aways with a swat down and a firm no, then walk away...never reward the "paw" with another pet. 

My girls are always screetching and yelling (5 & 3) and the dogs have never acted inappropriately...if someone is hurt or scared they might come running to check it out but never are aggressive. I wouldn't want to see someone mess with my kids though....dogs would probably have something to say about that!

Awesome guardians but make sure you are ready for them...already have the animals you want them to guard so they bond with the animals right aways and a proper fence/containment situation with your livestock. I can't see the cows being a problem if they are already there when you bring the dog home.

Welcome to the LGD world...you will hold such a deep appreciation for the job they do and how well they do it!


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 12, 2013)

Both Anatolians and Prys are great dogs. That Anatolian that saw talked about above is NOT a good example of one and is either from bad lines or just a bad dog. Don't let that fool you though. They are fantastic dogs.


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## goodolboy (Feb 12, 2013)

Straw, which of the dogs ya'll have there is more high strung? We have a friend with both and I think thier Anatolians are alittle more active toward people. Is this true for most of them compaired to the GP?


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 12, 2013)

goodolboy said:
			
		

> Straw, which of the dogs ya'll have there is more high strung? We have a friend with both and I think their Anatolians are a little more active toward people. Is this true for most of them compared to the GP?


None of them are really high-strung, imo. Two of the GP's are not very people friendly (they love us and their family though. Just not strangers) and they don't like them coming at their fence or animals. Then the one GP and my Anatolian are good with people, as long as we let them know that they are ok. Like if you came by there is no way your going in with the two GP's but if we were there and told the one GP and Anatolian that you are ok then we could bring you in and you could be around them. Well unless they just didn't like you. 

When you say active do you mean active as in wanting to bark and let you know this is their's or active as in they want to say high kind of active?


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## goodolboy (Feb 12, 2013)

I've only owned GP, and the only dealing I've had with the Anatolians is a friend. They own two, and it just seems to me that all the GP I've owned or seen (they have two of our pups also) are alot more layed back dogs. My females I've owned have been more hiper than the males. We have two intact males right now and I don't think that affects thier temperment at all. I was just asking a general question about the GP vs. Anatolians which you thought was more high stung.


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## EllieMay (Feb 12, 2013)

I agree that the GPs are better dogs around people/children. 
They're very laid back and are good LGDs.
I also have two Kangals (similar to the Anatolians) and I would NOT trust my Kangals around children or a stranger unless I am there.
The Kangals just have not been domesticated enough in this country to be as laid back as a Grt Pyr.
But since I am female and run a farm all by myself and live alone (when hubby is off for weeks at a time), I feel safer having the Grt Pyrs that will bark at ANYTHING and the Kangals that will KILL if necessary. 
For the average farm with an average or low predator load, I would definitely go with a GP.


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## goodolboy (Feb 12, 2013)

"similar to the Anatolians" Welllll, see how much I pay attention.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 12, 2013)

I have 9 children... I trust my "toli"  as well as all my pyrs with them. 
I really believe that integrating your LGD's into family life is important.
The female pyrs are fine with their family they are just very fierce when it comes to outsiders. My f pyr will not even let you near the fence. However if I bring her out she will say hi to you and is fine. 
For some reason the "toli's" get a bad wrap and people are very intimidated by them. I do think the f toli's are more laid back.


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## EllieMay (Feb 12, 2013)

No worries, G'olboy, it comes with old age.  

And, Southern, you're right that it depends on the dog and also how well it's socialized.
I don't have any kids and I'm sure my dogs will be okay around them if I'm there to supervise (especially with smaller kids) to make sure they're not spooked or have their food/bone taken away from them (that sort of thing).  I did have a neighbor come over with his little grand-daughter in his arms. She wanted to get down to pet the doggie. When he lowered her down, my female Kangal began to growl, so I told him to just hold his grand-daughter. 

And my dogs are relatively safe with people that I bring to the farm, I just would be fearful of an intruder at night lurking in my pasture.

I came home after an auction late one night. Before the auction I quickly ran out to feed the dogs and left their bowls in the pasture area.
So when I came home after the auction, I went straight from the car into the pasture to retrieve the bowls. I was not wearing my headlamp (as I usually do).
The dogs and sheep were apparently sleep in the barn since they were not in the pasture when I entered throught the gate.
I got about 1/4 of the way down when all of a sudden my female Kangal came barreling around the corner of the barn straight towards me.
All I saw were teeth and fangs shining in the moonlight and she was fiercely barking/growling/snarling with her hair standing up and coming at me full force!
I was like HOLY MOLY!  
My dog got about half way towards me when she realized it was me and slowed down her pace (put the fangs away) and lowered her head with tail wagging as she approached me.
All I could think of was "what if I were an intruder she did not know?"


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## Amp (Feb 12, 2013)

How are GP with people approaching the fence line?  We often do have play dates or random family members stopping by with kids wanting to go see our goats.  I've just began my research so I want to really be realistic about what to expect.  I've tried looking up breeders in my area but not having any luck.  I'm in Central Alabama between Tuscaloosa and Birmingham.  What do you consider adequate fencing?  I've heard it's best to have two from different litters.  Is there a better time of year to get them.  We thought this spring before it got scorching hot or fall.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 12, 2013)

My one team of 2 pyrs... no one is coming near the fenceline...ever. We also cannot take anyone in that field unless they are put up. The other team guards theirs as well but this team is GP and Anatolian and we can tell them it's okay and bring someone in.

In all honesty when you have a lgd...no one else's children should ever go in your field ever! Children especially small children screech scream and run...these behaviors are unacceptable to an LGD, unless it is their own family members. The dogs may not attack but will tend to "run" them down. 

I can take al my LGD's out of their fields and they will say hi ... the one team has particular traits that cause them to not really care about anyone but family. The other team has different traits and because of that they enjoy being "showboats" when we bring them out to see a visitor.

I strongly believe in teams, I am NOT overly excited about siblings. However I thing the most imporatant factor is that yoy do not have 2 of the same dogs with identical behavior traits. That is usually where the issue lie. Also M/F teams are best in my opinion.

Our Anatolian F is the most laid back girl you'll ever see, yet quick to jump into action etc. Her line has produced some amazing dogs. The males in her line are exteremely M/M aggressive...so all males must be separated. The F tolis were all fine together. They have one male that guards the property...no fenc stay on the property and never leaves.

I share that because there are stereo types that go with the GP and Toli's. None of my pyrs bark all night, only when necessary, they do not dig, and hot wire for a season corrected them from trying to climb a fence. Outside of a fence..they MUST have a lead on them or they will go! The Toli has been worked with as far as barking. 

A good LGD does not need to bark incessantly to do it's job. Sadly many think that makes a good lgd..not true..just makes for younot getting sleep and pissing off your neighbor.

We introduced ALL our LGD's to the house and they all have grown up with house time. They are taught basic obedience. Come ( which all LGD's are selective about  ) Sit. Down. Stay- that's more for in the house though. The point is not to overtrain but to have some manners. LGD's have a big heart and LOVE their people so jumping tends to be something that has to be really worked with.

Most tight farm fencing is fine. Hot-wire ayt the top is good, if they are digging then a strand at the bottom will work too. The Toli breeder  had 3 strand hot wire..that's it. Most of the time it wasn't even on, his dogs always stayed put. The level of "escape" and wondering will vary from dog to dog.

Any time of year really, you will need to spend time with them.


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## Amp (Feb 12, 2013)

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer.  I actually prefer having an excuse to keep people out of the pasture.  I've been made to feel the bad guy several times when I wouldn't let kid's in that I knew would chase the goats.  My first thought was a M/F GP team.  How would you go about picking two with different traits?  Also, I'm following another post you are giving advice in with another lab dog.  Would there come a time when they would not want that dog in the pasture?  What if they are very used to being around the dog and the dog is not interested in the goats. I just want to know what to expect with our 3 year old lab that is used to being out in the pasture with us.


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## Amp (Feb 12, 2013)

I just read your LGD page so I thought I would answer the questions

The area the dog will be in, the size *1.75 acre pasture fenced in and a barn with attached pen 30x100*

Will the dog be moved* Not really planning on it but we do have a buck pen 30x100.  Could the LGD be moved?*

If the dog needs to move from pasture to pasture *not currently but we do have access to 10 acres so there is a possibility if we created more pastures later*

Will the dog stay with one group and then over time be moved with another group*no, planning on keeping with does*

The set up of the farm  *House, barn and pens are on one acre.  Side pasture of 1.75 acres will be used for goat pasture.  We currently have free ranging chickens but are working on them a fenced run area* 

Is the dog going to be far from people house etc *No*

Is the dog off-site where you will see the dog once a day, with little human interaction*No*

How large of an area is being guarded*really just the 1.75 acres*

What kind of animals to be guarded*mainly goats*

What other dogs on property*on our property a yellow lab.  My parents have a small Jack Russell that they frequently bring to our house   Not sure how that would go over*

What kind of predators*We can hear coyotes close but never seen one and never lost an animal.  Our main issue is several wild dogs.  They have killed cats and neighbors Turkey*

Predator intensity

Is the farm open to the public with lots of visitors*We frequently have visitors.  The UPS guy comes everyday and our family all lives within a few houses.*


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## goodolboy (Feb 13, 2013)

We have two teams of 3 GP. Male, his son, and a female(not related). the second team is 3 of the males sons(one still intact). The first team is much more people friendly. We keep them on the farm that most of our customers come to when picking up lambs. these three are great with kids also, but the dogs are very big. small kids seem to be frightened by that. Nobody is EVER left alone with our dogs. The females we have owned have all been harder to keep on the farm, the males have never tried the fence.

The second team is at our larger farm. All three boys stay with the flock and only come up when me or the DW comes up. They don't like strangers at all. They will just stay out in the field with the sheep and bark. These dogs don't get the attention the other team does so they're alot more skiddish. I've never seen them be agressive toward people just skiddish. 

Both teams do their jobs great. The ability to socialize with humans is deffinately learned. I personally don't have any use for a female GP. They are smaller than the males and frankly, I just haven't seen a good one I want gaurding my sheep. Just my opinion.

My older male was raised with the family dogs, and was great. I just don't see a problem there if you work with the dogs.

Hope I was some help.


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## Amp (Feb 13, 2013)

thank you


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