# Getting our babies tomorrow!!! [PICS ADDED!!!]



## BJnMe (Oct 26, 2010)

Hi!  I am a new member here, and a new goat "parent!"  Tomorrow, we are getting two Nubian bucks that are two weeks old.  Their current mom has been bottle feeding them a mixture of vitamin D milk and powdered goat formula (mixed with water) three times a day.  Now, I have already picked up a bucket of formula for them, but am really wondering about the store-bought/meant-for-people milk.  Should I continue with this as it is what they are used to?  Or should I just go with the formula?  I know I should also be offering them hay and grain at this age, too, right?  I didn't see any evidence of this at their current home, but want to be prepared when they get here.

Thanks,

Tina


----------



## Ariel301 (Oct 26, 2010)

Welcome to goat ownership!

As for food, I'd get whole raw goat milk if it is possible, obviously that is the best...if not, you can use whole cow milk from the store, or milk replacer meant for livestock from the feed store. Human baby formula probably isn't a good choice. If they are doing well on their current formula, you can stay with that, or gradually change them to something different (you may get a little tummy upset with the change, but it clears up in a day or two)

You can offer them hay or grazing time at that age, they will nibble at things. They probably don't need grain, I don't grain my male goats at all, and my does only when thin or milking. 

If these are just going to be pets, you want to get them neutered when they are a couple of months old. Bucks don't make great pets, especially in breeding season when they are stinky and peeing on themselves. 

You will also want to start right away training them to behave correctly--do not encourage them to head butt you (even though it is cute at that age, it is not cute when they are 100+ pounds! Especially if they are horned.) Do not allow them to jump on you, also...basically anything you will not want them doing when they are big, don't let them do now. It is much easier to stop it when they are very young and smaller than you!


----------



## BJnMe (Oct 26, 2010)

Thanks for the information!  The formula I picked up is actually the milk replacement, same thing as their current owner is using.  I was mostly concerned about store-bought milk.  I believe the reason the current owner is using a combination of milk and milk replacer is to cut down on cost.

I really originally wanted one male and one female so I can try milking and cheese-making, but these two little guys just happened to come along at the right time for the right price.  We will still get a female (next spring maybe), but I didn't want to take just one of the little guys (I would hate to think he would be lonely!), so we are getting the two.  Probably, we will neuter the little guy, and keep the other one intact.  

I really wasn't planning on goats until next year, but when the right deal comes along, sometimes you just have to go for it, right?  

So, instead of taking the winter to do my research, I am now going with a crash-course!


----------



## Roll farms (Oct 26, 2010)

When I don't have enough milk to go around, I generally just buy / use  Vit. D milk at the big chain stores (cheaper that way, you can buy several gallons and freeze it until you need it.)

I started w/ replacer years ago, and had kids scour, but when I switched to vit D milk only (suggested by a dairy goat farmer to me) the poops stopped...so I haven't fed replacer in years.

I think mixing the two will be ok, since it's what they're used to...just remember to not mix it heavy on the powder....I'd even use a smidge less than it calls for.

They have really improved the quality of 'good' replacers since then, and I'm not saying they shouldn't be used...but our kids do fine on whole milk, AND it's cheaper....so using replacer just doesn't make sense for me.


----------



## BJnMe (Oct 26, 2010)

I am thinking maybe we will go fifty/fifty with the replacer and whole milk until I go through this first bucket, then start cutting back on the replacer once we start on the second bucket of replacement formula, until we are down to just regular vitamin D milk.  As you said, it will be a lot cheaper!


----------



## mistee (Oct 26, 2010)

i too just use store milk as replacer always caused scours for me too..

have fun w/ them!


----------



## Ariel301 (Oct 27, 2010)

"Crash Course" is how I started too...my husband and I were moving out of the city into the country, and he said one day in the car, "We should get some animals". I say, "Ok, what kind of animals? We've got two cats, a parrot, a horse, and fish." He says "Sheep. Or maybe goats. You should look for some." Ok....so I go looking around. There was a lady I knew in a town 5 hours away (14 hours from our new place) where my mom lived who had goats for sale. I talked to her on the phone, told her I'd buy three. We moved, drove back for the goats and picked them up having never seen them before, and the lady also gave us a free baby buck, 12 hours old. (Little did we know he was also very sick!) We had to keep them at an RV park (my mom's work) for three days while we waited on getting all the paperwork in order to cross state lines....we had to learn quick about goats! It took me four days of trying to get them milked out, meanwhile they were getting fuller and fuller and grumpier and kickier and my hands were getting swollen and red...I finally got it though.


----------



## Griffin's Ark (Oct 29, 2010)

If you use replacer, you have to insure that there are no ingredients that are not from milk.  That is the best way I can describe it though of course there are additives that won't be milk... you have to have at least 20% milk protein and 20% milk fat.  If the fat or protein is not from milk you will find yourself dealing with scours on a continuing basis.  Also make sure none of the proteins are from plants!  Goats cannot process soy proteins and when you see plant protein on the label it usually means "Soy".
The most important thing to watch is, "What goes in must come out."  Scours is bad but constipation can be worse.  Both will kill a young kid quickly.  
With Nubians we feed 4 times a day, 12 ounces each feeding until 4 weeks and then 3 times a day 16 ounces each feeding until 8 weeks, then twice a day 16 -20 ounces each feeding until 10 weeks, then Once a day until 12 weeks, when they are weaned.  A lot of people only go to 8 weeks, and you can do that, but you will get much better development feeding out to 12 weeks.  I guess it depends on how much time you have.  Last year we started bottle feeding in January and did not finish until July, but goats are our farm's primary income and our customers can see a difference in our goats as compared to other goats in our area.  We love Nubians, but you have to be prepared for the drama!  Enjoy!  Chris


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Oct 29, 2010)

People have success with different things.  I feed replacer, because whole milk in our stores around here is $4/gallon and the good quality milk replacer is cheaper.  If the whole milk was cheaper, I'd probably feed it.


----------



## warthog (Oct 29, 2010)

"goat parent', 'goat ownership'

Thinks somebody should tell you, you don't own them, they own you 

Seriously they are wonderful animals, and I hope you thoroughly enjoy them. Good luck.


----------



## Emmetts Dairy (Oct 30, 2010)

warthog said:
			
		

> "goat parent', 'goat ownership'
> 
> Thinks somebody should tell you, you don't own them, they own you
> 
> Seriously they are wonderful animals, and I hope you thoroughly enjoy them. Good luck.


Sooo true!!!!    


Welcome!!! When I had to bottle feed I used the kid replacer from Tractor Supply.  Never had issues with scours.  But change them slowly if your changing things up, good advice.  I would additionally skip the grain with the bucks as well!!  Have fun and enjoy your new babies...2 weeks old huh? They are young!!  What happen to their Momma???


----------



## Dreaming Of Goats (Oct 30, 2010)

You are seriously posting this without pictures? lol


----------



## BJnMe (Oct 30, 2010)

Pictures will be coming soon!!!  I have to find the camera... 

Well, I found out that even though they were advertised this past Monday as two weeks, they are officially two weeks old today!  So, yes, real young!  Their mamas belong to someone who has dairy goats, and no use for bucklings.  The girl I got them from bought all four babies that were availbale (she didn't want the owner to "deal" with them), but could only keep two, so that is how they came to be on Craiglist.

I think we have found the magic mixture for these little guys.  I am using a 50/50 mix of milk and replacer.  However, the replacer is only 1/4-strength.  I bought it from our local feed store, and it has no plant matter listed on the ingredients list, and is 20% protein, 20% fat.

The little guy, Toby, still does not drink much more than 12 ounces at a time, but he is definitely putting on some weight.  Nigel, on the other hand, is voracious!  He will drink up to 20 ounces at a feeding if he doesn't lose interest and start playing.  We are feeding them three times a day, and last night we threw in an extra bottle right before we went to bed, which was about four hours after their last feeding.  That seemed to go over well, so may become the new routine.  We will see how it goes.

We are definitely enjoying these guys, and can't wait to see how they grow up!  I homeschool our three girls (12, 10, 8), so this is another great experience for them, too - with the added bonus that I have help at home to feed and keep our menagerie that also includes chickens, one duck, our three house cats, and two Flemish giant rabbits (who are kindly sharing their sunroom with the goats until we finish their enclosure in the barn).

I will post some pictures of my boys later this weekend.  Thank you to everyone who has offered advice - we love this site!


----------



## chandasue (Oct 30, 2010)

Congrats and look forward to pics! My son, who's 4 now, has had chickens and goats around almost as long as he can remember. He's FINALLY starting to realize that not everyone in our homeschool group lives like we do, and none of them for sure have goats. It used to be that we'd go to people's houses and he'd ask where the goats were after scanning their backyards.


----------



## jlbpooh (Oct 30, 2010)

That is so cute! Kids are so much fun. (Both the human and goat varieties, LOL)


----------



## Griffin's Ark (Oct 31, 2010)

It sounds like you are doing very good with these guys.  We get lots of purebred goats via dairy discards.  Grade A dairy farms usually have no time for bucklings and quite often get rid of a lot of doelings too.  Usually they go to the people that make curry, but I have found that I can outbid their limits and get the best goats to raise as dairy herd replacers or starters.  The great thing is that these guys probably come from a CAE free herd as quite often graded dairys are.

My best experience with goats was bottle feeding 4 Nubian boys at one time.  It was sheer joy for Tina and I.
Chris


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 2, 2010)

Ok - looking for some more excellent advice!  My boys (Nubians) are now 16 days old and just full of themselves!!!    They are taking 12-20 ounces per feeding, three to four times a day.  It's amazing to see how much they have started filling out since just last Wednesday when we brought them home.

Their enclosure is about half-way done and I am anticipating them moving out to the barn sometime this weekend.  I hope.   

So.  Questions. 

Worming.  When is the best time to do this?  Now, later?  Am I already behind schedule?  

Hay.  We are offering timothy hay to them, although they only play nibble at it.  Timothy hay is what we have for our rabbits, which is why we are offering that rather than alfalfa.  What is best for them?

Feed.  I have read that we should begin offering this from three weeks until weaned.  Regular goat feed?  Something special?  Free choice or portions?  

Anything else I should be doing right now?  I keep reading, but keep finding conflicting information.  Thank you for all the great advice!!!  I found my camera, just need to find the charger, then I will post pics of my boys!


----------



## cmjust0 (Nov 2, 2010)

> My boys (Nubians) are now 16 days old
> ....
> Worming.  When is the best time to do this?  Now, later?  Am I already behind schedule?


The best answer to that question is "worm as needed."

Having said that, goats generally pick up worms from grazing larvae-infested grass.  At 16 days of age, it's not likely that they've done much of that, so it's highly unlikely that they'd need to be dewormed.  



> Hay.  We are offering timothy hay to them, although they only play nibble at it.  Timothy hay is what we have for our rabbits, which is why we are offering that rather than alfalfa.  What is best for them?


Timothy's OK.  I like timothy for goats, personally.  In any case, though, they're getting the vast majority of their nutrition from milk at this point so whatever hay they're eating is kinda like 'training hay' anyhow.

When they start eating hay _with purpose,_ as it were, you might consider something with a little more protein like an alfalfa blend, etc.



> Feed.  I have read that we should begin offering this from three weeks until weaned.  Regular goat feed?  Something special?  Free choice or portions?


I'm not a huge advocate of feeding out of a bag unless it's necessary, and it really shouldn't be necessary while they're on a bottle.  If I feed grain while they're on a bottle, I tend to feed just enough to get them interested so they'll know what it is and eat it later on if it *does* become necessary.

We're talking little tiny handfuls once or twice a day, mostly for them to explore and play around with.

DEFINITELY NOT free choice, though..  Feeding too much grain or incorrect types of grains to boys is a pretty surefire way to find yourself with a case of urinary calculi.  Personally, I like to make sure I'm feeding something like alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets to add more supplemental calcium to their diet if I'm feeding very much grain at all.  Keeping blood calcium levels high helps keep blood phosphates low, which helps prevent urinary calculi...it's why any decent goat grain should be mixed to have twice as much calcium as phosphorus.

I just don't personally think that's a high enough ratio -- but that's me.  I've got my bucks and bucklings on a 50% goat-grain/50% alfalfa-pellet blend w/ free choice grass hay right now.  So far, so good -- and one's a former UC case w/ maybe...oh, I dunno...30-40% urethral capacity?  He's a dribbler, put it that way.  Wouldn't take much for him to plug up, but it hasn't happened since they've been on alfalfa pellets.



> Anything else I should be doing right now?  I keep reading, but keep finding conflicting information.  Thank you for all the great advice!!!  I found my camera, just need to find the charger, then I will post pics of my boys!


At 2wks+, they're  range for C/D-T vaccination.  I usually do mine between 2-3 weeks of age, then again 4wks later (i.e., 1st shot @ 2-3wks, booster shot @ 6-7wks).  

Otherwise, use this time to keep reading everything you can and to gather supplies.  If I had to make a suggestion on where to start, I'd suggest learning about scours.  Investigate the different things that cause scours (dietary, bacterial, coccidia, intestinal worms, etc), and then stock up on what you'd need to treat a case of the different things that may be causing it (stuff like dimethox, pepto, oral antibiotics, electrolyte powder, Safe-Guard dewormer, etc)..  

Also, I'd suggest reading up on how to at least *attempt* to diagnose the cause of a scour based on the scour's color, consistency, contents, the goat's general demeanor, etc (green scour + normal goat = dietary...  Black, bloody, foul-smelling scour = acute coccidiosis...  "Dirty water" scour with blood and mucous = bacterial, usually....etc).  

I'm not saying they're *going* to scour, but you're clearly looking for something to do, right?...  ...well, there are an awful lot of "MY BABY HAS DIARRHEA!" posts floating around out there which have been authored by some very freaked-out newbie goat owners.  It does happen, so that's what I'd suggest boning up on.


----------



## Griffin's Ark (Nov 3, 2010)

I don't think there is much to add after CM's reply.  One thing I might add is the feed you start the kids on should be at least 16% protein and should have Ammonium Chloride (helps dissolve urinary calculi) in it.  After they get their major growth spurt  (sometime before the end of the first year) you can just about stop graining them.  And don't forget the CD and T shots... Enterotoxemia (C&D) is a very fast acting toxin, and once it starts to proliferate in the gut of a goat it is almost a for-sure death sentence.  Once a goat begins to scour from Entero, it is usually to late.  Their scours will be the most fowl smelling stuff you can imagine and usually you can tell from a few feet away.
Our Nubian bottle baby is now our herd sire and he still thinks he is a bottle baby at 18 months old.  That can cause problems with visitors not used to goats as they like to touch and stand on family members and it seems that all two legged goats are family members.  Floyd will stand with his front legs on my shoulders to greet me in normal goat fashion and since I did/do not discourage him I can't let him be around non-goat people and I have to warn goat people.  Our goats are spoiled, but we also get some top milk production from a bunch of ordinary goats.  Happy Cows might be from California, but Happy Goats come from Virginia!
Chris


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Nov 3, 2010)

About the grain thing, I would offer it free choice until they really start eating it, then I would cut back to rationed amounts.  I like it to be available to my kids at all times so they can practice eating it.  I change it out every day so it's fresh, and I only offer a little, but they have access to it all the time.


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 4, 2010)

Ok - Nigel's and Toby's coughs are much better - mostly happens only after feeding or after a very loud bout of screaming for "Maaaa!"  I had them on a 50/50 mixture of replacer and whole milk, with the replacer only at quarter strength.  I also bought them the goat/lamb nipples, so they are off the human baby bottles that came with them.  Yay!  Yesterday and today they have upped their intake to 20 ounces a feeding from 12-16 ounces each.  Since their coughs have improved, I decided to up the replacer to 1/2-strength to see if that helps fill their little bellies.  We have been feeding them three times a day with an extra bottle at bedtime if they felt they needed it.  Should I keep to this schedule?  Should I offer more than 20 ounces per feeding?  Should I increase the number of times I am feeding them?


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 6, 2010)

Well, we have been going with three feedings a day, and offering twenty ounces at each feeding.  They have been taking 16-20 ounces, so I have been happy with that.

This morning, both little guys drank their full bottles, then played outside with us for a while.  However, Toby (my little guy), has seemed down the past few hours since then.  His tail is down, and he only drank about 5 ounces of his "lunch" bottle.  He played a little bit outside with our girls, but definitely not as energetically as earlier.  

He and brother Nigel are now napping.  I am hoping he was just tired and not liking the cold breeze (I have noticed he doesn't like to be out when the wind is blowing), but will keep an eye on him.  

We will be running over to the feed store this afternoon and I plan on picking up some loose minerals for them, more bottle nipples, also maybe some feed, and more hay for them and the bunnies.  The boys will also be moving out to their barn enclosure this evening or tomorrow at the latest.    The sunroom is quite cool, and I have been leaving a couple windows open to acclimate them to the cooler outside temps, and they have spent a lot of time outside with us during the day.

Any advice will be appreciated.  Thank you!


----------



## Dreaming Of Goats (Nov 6, 2010)

PICTURES YET??????????????????????


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 6, 2010)

Ok - before I get any more distracted, I am going to find the charger right now!    Been busy dehydrating a couple BIG bags of carrots, and making applesauce ... among everything else.  Looking right now ...


----------



## Dreaming Of Goats (Nov 6, 2010)

yay


----------



## ChksontheRun (Nov 6, 2010)

I second that yay!


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 6, 2010)

She got distracted, but I managed to get one shot of Nigel hanging out the dish towels after breakfast.


----------



## chandasue (Nov 6, 2010)

Cute and already getting into trouble! Goats...


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 7, 2010)

Finally - I have both the camera and charged battery in the same place at the same time!

Toby is the brown and Nigel is the black.


----------



## freemotion (Nov 7, 2010)

Goats are my favorite baby animals!  So cute!!!


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 7, 2010)




----------



## BJnMe (Nov 7, 2010)

Nigel is definitely all boy.  He is very curious, very vocal, very into everything!


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 7, 2010)

Toby is our little guy, the one that was tube fed when he was first born.  He is a little slower, more likely to hang out with us rather than take off on his own, and screams for "Maaaaaaaa!" when hungry or "lost."


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 7, 2010)

Today we stopped at TSC and picked up some goodies for the boys.  We got them some loose minerals, feed, and C/D-T vaccine and syringes/needles.  Ben's mom (ER nurse) is coming over this evening to teach us how to give injections!    Toby is back to his cough.  Mostly after eating, but it hasn't completely gone away, yet, so we are keeping an eye on him.  He is eating good, playing, and pooping like he should be.  Having lots of fun with these guys!


----------



## ChksontheRun (Nov 7, 2010)

They are absolutely darling.  I love babies!!!!


----------



## Dreaming Of Goats (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm not a huge fan of nubians.... especially ones with white ears and colored bodies.... but they're still pretty cute!


----------



## ThornyRidge (Nov 7, 2010)

cute cute cute!  there is nothing sweeter than baby goats.. love the ears!


----------



## mossyStone (Nov 7, 2010)

ADORABLE!!!!! I love those ears..so sweet!

Mossy Stone Farm!


----------



## glenolam (Nov 8, 2010)

I, on the other hand, am a HUGE fan of nubians - especially with white ears and colored bodies!  Congrats and they are very cute!  Enjoy!


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 8, 2010)

Thanks, everyone!  We do love these little guys!  They spent their first night out in the barn last night, and seemed to do quite well, although they were very happy to see me and the girls this morning with their warm bottles.  My MIL came over last night for dinner and injections.  Went, ok, but not great.  What size needles does everyone use for the C/D-T?  We were recommended the 18ga by a goat-owner/employee of TSC ... mmmmm, not a good idea!


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Nov 8, 2010)

BJnMe said:
			
		

> Thanks, everyone!  We do love these little guys!  They spent their first night out in the barn last night, and seemed to do quite well, although they were very happy to see me and the girls this morning with their warm bottles.  My MIL came over last night for dinner and injections.  Went, ok, but not great.  What size needles does everyone use for the C/D-T?  We were recommended the 18ga by a goat-owner/employee of TSC ... mmmmm, not a good idea!


I generally use 20 ga., but will use 18 if that's all I have on hand.


----------



## cmjust0 (Nov 8, 2010)

I use a 22ga for C/D-T and other watery stuff.  A 20ga works for most everything else.  

The only thing I usually recommend giving w/ an 18ga needle is PenG, since it's usually a suspension with fairly large particles.


You're right though -- an 18ga is like a sharpened stovepipe.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Nov 8, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> You're right though -- an 18ga is like a sharpened stovepipe.


When I had my gallbladder out the IV hurt like hell.  I asked the nurse if it was an 18 ga. and she said yes.  I told her that's what we used for cow IV's.  She laughed.  I still have a scar.


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 8, 2010)

My MIL will be using a smaller needle next time for sure!  Compared to the 16ga the employee was showing me, the 18ga looked more reasonable, and I went with the advice that's what she uses for her goats.  I had my list with me, but had neglected to write down a needle size (I think I was planning on getting back on here before we left for errands and forgot!).  Well, I guess I will have 18's on hand if we ever need it for the PenG!

On another note - the guys are doing great this morning, no noticeable tenderness at the injection site, and are enjoying their new digs!


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Nov 8, 2010)

BJnMe said:
			
		

> My MIL will be using a smaller needle next time for sure!  Compared to the 16ga the employee was showing me, the 18ga looked more reasonable, and I went with the advice that's what she uses for her goats.  I had my list with me, but had neglected to write down a needle size (I think I was planning on getting back on here before we left for errands and forgot!).  Well, I guess I will have 18's on hand if we ever need it for the PenG!
> 
> On another note - the guys are doing great this morning, no noticeable tenderness at the injection site, and are enjoying their new digs!


A 16?!    I wonder who would ever need one of those?!


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 9, 2010)

Toby and Nigel have been doing great in the barn!  Well, ok, so it's only been 36 hours.  I will be heading out with their morning bottles in about half an hour.  Yesterday, they each sucked down 20 ounces at each of their three feedings, so I think being in a larger area, and outside where it is cooler has improved their appetites.  They have also kinda play-nibbled at their pellets, hay, and minerals.  We were hoping that providing the minerals would convince Toby that he doesn't need to eat dirt, but he still does.  This is not going to hurt him, right?  The only to keep him from doing that is putting a muzzle on him!


----------



## freemotion (Nov 9, 2010)

As horrifying as it is to us, they ALL eat dirt!


----------



## jodief100 (Nov 9, 2010)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> A 16?!    I wonder who would ever need one of those?!


That is what they use for dialysis.


----------



## Roll farms (Nov 12, 2010)

If you sort of pound on their chest a little (a good, firm pat) after they finish their bottles, it helps to clear the bit of milk they've sucked down their pipes out....they'll cough a bit right then but in my experienced it's greatly reduced the wheezing / hacking that happens for a while after bottles are taken, if you leave it for them to clear out on their own.

I don't worry much if kids don't finish 1 bottle...if they refuse 2, I go on alert....if they won't take a 3rd, I start treatment (usually it's e coli in younger kids or cocci in older ones, but there are so many things it could be....best to get a temp taken and call your vet.)

We use 20 ga needled for nearly everything....18 are reserved for Nuflor (antibiotic I don't use often) and other thick stuff.

Congrats for getting some nice looking boys.


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 12, 2010)

Thanks for all the great information!  The boys are doing great.  They are still sucking down 20-ounce bottles three times a day, but aren't really interested in their hay or feed (we have maybe a half-cup in their feeder and offer it to them every time we are in there with them.  Nigel will mouth the food, but neither really eat any of it at this point.  

Now, here's the new thing.  We may be getting a doe or two, but are still waiting to hear what the situation is.  If we do get a doe or two, they will be older than our boys.  Will it be ok to house all of them together?


----------



## RedStickLA (Nov 13, 2010)

Very Cute!


----------



## Roll farms (Nov 13, 2010)

If you house them together, it won't be long until you get babies......boys are capable at 2 mos of age...they won't always start that early, but they *CAN*....so take that into account.

If the does are under 6 mos, I wouldn't keep them together, they'll be too young to kid.  If they're older than that, and you want babies in 5 mos....leave them together.

The older ones may pick on the younger ones until a pecking order is established.


----------



## BJnMe (Nov 14, 2010)

Well, we are just waiting for my MIL to go to work tomorrow and talk to her co-worker whose husband works with the guy who is looking for homes for his goats.  It sounds like there are three available, and we only want one at this time, but a doctor that Mom works with wants the other two.  So, we are hoping everything works out for all of us.  We will update as we find things out.  Toby and Nigel are doing great.  They now have an outdoor area that they can access from their pen in the barn.  It's great - now they don't have to wait on us to go outside to play!


----------

