# family dog



## promiseacres (Jan 21, 2018)

My DS is going to show our lab/Australian shep mix, Maizy this year in 4H.  And have told him we can add a 2nd dog that he can call his own for next year.  (Current dog is my dog) in any case I have a friend with corgi pups. Always have wanted a corgi.... but their price has always deterred us from getting on. Anyways in the past I have always preffered to "rescue" but frankly it hasn't always been a good match just because rescues rarely know a dog's background, breed, ect. Since I know the owners (through rabbit showing) am considering just getting a pup. Maizy was from an aquaintences litter and been great. Our kids are still young enough I feel getting a dog with solid background is pretty important. Thoughts? Keep in mind any dog we get will be a companion....  and yes I like my herding dogs though they're a bit crazy.... we stay pretty active. So purebred or rescue?


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## BoboFarm (Jan 21, 2018)

With kids in the house getting a puppy is best, IMO. Knowing the parents is important as well. Knowing breed characteristics of a purebred is invaluable. I sound like a snob by saying this but I will never again rescue a dog. I will only purchase purebred pups whose parents (grandparents, etc.) were health tested and had working titles. Even for a pet, working titles on parents will tell you that your pup should conform to the breed standard. There will be variation but that's where a good breeder will come in handy. They should pick your pup based on what you tell them you want. They've, hopefully, closely watched these pups for 8 weeks and should know what home they will do well in. I always discourage people from picking their own pups because they base it off of one or two meetings. Not enough to get to know a pup, IMO. If I had let pup buyers pick their own pups I can guarantee I'd have some returned because most like the more outgoing puppy in the group. That pup usually turns into the hellion that would have been better in a working home. I've kept those pups most of the time because very few can handle them. This is one of the big reasons why we no longer breed working rotties.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 21, 2018)

Have a few thoughts but I'll have to come back...


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## Bossroo (Jan 21, 2018)

PUREBRED  dog every time !!!  The rescues are an unkown snow job at best.


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 21, 2018)

I have 2 Great Pyrennes, a Great Pyrennes mix and. Lab mix that I took in from others
I'm a big advocate of adopting dogs.
But, I think I'm a little better than average at judging a dogs tempermant
And don't discount the fact that a pure bred dog can't be crazy


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## Southern by choice (Jan 21, 2018)

You mentioned the Corgi. I personally love Corgi's but I will tell you that almost all the breeders I have known/met over the years do not sell to families with children.
If this is your dream dog then definitely interview breeders and they should be interviewing you. You will want to also know results for DM (Degenerative Myelopathy) which is done by DNA testing- carriers are common and ok. There are some breeds that if you wiped out all the carriers there would be no more of that breed. Corgi's are one of those breeds.
Do you like the Pembroke or the Cardigan?

I agree with @BoboFarm  a good breeder will select the dog that fits your needs, if there are two in the litter that meet that then they will give you a choice. However there really aren't alot of breeders out there that are good at evaluating.  
As far as titles and pedigree I am a bit different, but there is good reason.
I can be a bit of a "snob" too with PB.  Depending on the breed your looking into getting some of those things can be good or bad.

A good example is here in the States there are lots of GSD breeders that have great titles... I am referring to Schutzhund titles (working dog)...
Sadly there are many in the States that only care about numbers and titles and the dogs are a freaking mess. I mean terrible. A good working dog need not be psychotic and so driven that it isn't even a dog anymore. Far too many raise and keep these dogs in kennels and literally take them out to work... they are convinced they work harder. It is similar to the crap told too LGD people that the dog shouldn't be handled.

All my sheps were working... and sound!
Adelina (my current GSD) comes from what one would say "great lines" Her sire was the #1 Red Sable GSD in the world, and 22nd over all (world).
Can she work? Yes
Is she aggressive? No
She is a one handler dog that cannot really cope in a family environment. IMO this is NOT a "sound" dog... yet to that world she would be because she could score well etc... Extreme obedience and in many ways a wonderful dog. Just doesn't measure up to any GSD I have ever owned.  
I am old school and all dogs are family members that also work (GSD's) 

Unfortunately we see this in so many herding/working breeds... somewhere along the line people started equating driven and crazy with work ability.  
I sadly see so many of these dogs given up because they are just too much for their owners.


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## BoboFarm (Jan 21, 2018)

@Southern by choice I agree that the GSD is a disaster and where a lot of working breeds are headed, including the rottie. But I also think the GSD is a very extreme example of breeding to extremes. By working titles I don't necessarily mean specific to that breed (herding in this case). Some obedience titles showing the parents are willing to work with their handler would be nice. It's also nice to see that the breeder is putting the work into their dogs, not just breeding dogs because they can.


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## Latestarter (Jan 21, 2018)

I avoid "rescues" as I'm unwilling to pay the ridiculous amounts they charge for a mutt with virtually no history. I also am not a fan of having to "qualify" to rescue an animal. I also am a very private person and refuse to divulge some of the information they "require", nor will I agree with their stipulations on what I will and won't do with the animal after I've "rescued" it... Specifically, I disagree with "mandated" spaying and neutering. All that being said, I have visited the local dog pound here (not a rescue) with the idea and possibility of purchasing (for a reasonable fee) a "house dog" without all the above stipulations. 

If I'm gonna sign contracts, and agree to stipulations, and pay an amount equal to that which I'd pay for a pure bred dog with history and papers, the choice is rather obvious to me. Hope you make the right choice for you and family, and share some pics when it all happens!


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## babsbag (Jan 22, 2018)

I know two people with Corgis and both of them were raised with small children. One of them will herd everything... goats, cats, people, other dogs, etc., he is a little neurotic.  The other one is much more laid back and relaxed.


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## promiseacres (Jan 22, 2018)

The corgis are Pembroke. I will check on testing she does, pups were born a week ago, breeder knows I have kids...   I know any herding dogs can be ocd about herding and some ways would love another mutt.... as Maizy doesn't herd us...she does chase cats and gets silly if I move horses.  I am leaning towards a male already having a spayed female. My experience is a male wouldn't be as likely to have dominance issues with her. Thanks for the input... any input on a very good medium dog breed great with a family? I really would prefer 20 to 40# size.


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## greybeard (Jan 22, 2018)

promiseacres said:


> nyways in the past I have always preffered to "rescue" but frankly it hasn't always been a good match just because rescues rarely know a dog's background, breed, ect.


All my dogs except the one that I built the wheelchair for have been 'rescues'..
(he is a mix breed that was a house warming gift from my sister) 
When I say 'rescues' a more apt term is adoptions..each was a stray that someone threw out at one of our gates. They've all, all thru the years, been wonderful companions and each has been a blessing to us, even the ones that showed up days away from dropping a litter of pups.


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## Mike CHS (Jan 22, 2018)

All four of my dogs now are pure bred but up until we started working sheep, all of the dogs I had were all Heinz 57 with never one that was anything but a member of the family.


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## babsbag (Jan 22, 2018)

I had both but I have not adopted an older dog, they have always been pups and I think that is the ticket. When a person surrenders a dog at a shelter it is often for behavior problems that they aren't talking about and sometimes you just don't know the trigger. My uncle had a Doberman that was trained to attack if he rang a bell. Could you imagine that dog ending up in rescue?

I would like my next dogs to be older ones though, so we will see. I don't think I could ever do puppyhood again.  My house dogs are pushing 11 so I do think about the "next" dog(s).


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## Providence Hill (Jan 24, 2018)

If he does not need an AKC breed, you should look at English Shepherds - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Shepherd .  They are a fabulous choice for a small farm and the quintessential "boy's best friend". Ours was raised with our 5 kids and adores them. I'm not sure we'll ever have another breed.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 24, 2018)

I prefer purebred since with a reputable breeder you are pretty sure how the dog will react and develope temp wise etc. This is assuming your training is good.  Also costs during the lifetime of the dog will be less often because a reputable breeder will screen for health problems. Emphasis is on reputable breeder who screens for problems. Rescue dogs often (not always and we have a beloved rescue ourselves) have behavioral or health issues. Add in the fact that you want to train for herding and a rescue is an unknown mix of prey drive etc. Corgis are supposed to be good with kids. I would go with the purebred puppy if your friend does all the genetic and health testing specific to the breed. I always feel that the cost over the life of the dog is minimal for a purebred that is bred for the job you want it for. I wouldn't adopt a rescue of unknown breeding and expect it to be a good sorting or LG dog. Not saying it couldn't happen but the odds are against it. The upkeep costs being equal go with the trainable puppy instead of the rescue you have to break of bad behavior. Rescue is sweet but when I buy a replacement ram or ewe I don't go to the auction where people usually send their rejects.  I buy what I need from a reputable source.  I don't have the time or money to waste. I hope no one takes this the wrong way.


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## ducks4you (Jan 24, 2018)

@Bossroo after 150 years of inbreeding blooded dogs we have created dogs that suffer from genetic problems that are unnatural, like hip dysplasia, heart problems, and the one that took my 1/4 GS mix (Huskey/GSxBC), where her jaw muscles atrophied and her jaw closed.  Despite steroids, she was miserable and never fully recovered. I am 60yo and I NEVER heard of such a thing happening to a dog before!!   She was put down at 9yo.  She SHOULD have been living a long life, maybe some arthritis and grey hairs but NOT what took her in the end.  She is buried with a marker in the back yard. 
UNfortunately, even mixed breed dogs can inherit these awful genetic diseases and other diseases not mentioned here.  Still, my Lab/GSxPitbull mix is 10yo and she still runs and plays.  It was a crapshoot that her partner didn't make it that long.
I love dogs.  They are wonderful creatures and most people are not aware of all of things that can train your dog (or your horse) to do.  I detest dog breeders.  They only have $ in their eyes and their dogs suffer for it.


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## frustratedearthmother (Jan 24, 2018)

Providence Hill said:


> If he does not need an AKC breed, you should look at English Shepherds - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Shepherd . They are a fabulous choice for a small farm and the quintessential "boy's best friend". Ours was raised with our 5 kids and adores them. I'm not sure we'll ever have another breed.


Gotta second that!  Our Gracie is 3 years old now and she's awesome!  They are a great farm dog.


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## Fullhousefarm (Jan 24, 2018)

How long has your child been working with a dog in 4H? This is my daughters second year. She also started with a family "mutt" who has done well in agility and obedience but not great in Showmanship/confirmation which is my Daughter's strength. This year she has had several breeders offer her different arrangements for showing their dogs, leases, to co-ownerships.

So right now she's working with a breeder who has one of her two "Dream breeds" and she is co-owner of the nicest male of the litter who lives at our house and she will be showing him starting in Feb when he is 4 months old. She's showing the dam in conformation under a lease until the puppy is 6 mo. (Using our family dog for agility and obedience for now.)

All that said many times very reputable breeders will work with youth because it benefits them to have a dog that is worked with, raised in a home, shown, and shown by a youth in shoes.  I'd feel out your local group and ask around. My daughter may end up keeping this puppy forever or she may end up purchasing a different pure bred in the long run- but it's nice she has the opportunity to work with a dog that has the potential to take her to a very high level. She also learning the breed specific grooming necessary for her breed. She was there when the puppies were born, helped with dewclaws, went to their 8 week vet appt, and doggie sat two over Christmas when the owner was on vacation.

She needed an AKC purebred to do confirmation shows seriously in our area. But, our family dog was able to get her to the point of knowing what she wanted and what she is good at.

We will still probably have rescues as family dogs even after the 3 yr old and 11 year old we have pass away other than possibly a LGD that would not be a rescue. However, I'm not at all against pure bred dogs raised by reputable breeders who care about the breeds overall health and test their dogs for common breed issues to avoid them. Rescues aren't ideal for everyone.

*eta: My daughter is an all around animal lover and only had dog breeds on her "list" that generally don't have big faults as a breed (like GSDs or Bulldog type breeds are more prone to) just because that's her personality and she did a lot of research. I was actually surprised by both her perfered breeds, but both were very well researched and fitting choices for what she wanted to do!


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## KatyDaly (Jan 24, 2018)

I agree with ducks4you that purebred dogs can have as many and sometimes more health issues than the Heinz 57s. I am 61YO and have only ever rescued my dogs and cats. I have also fostered several muttlies, including a whole litter of Lab/GSP pups. My lab was the only one we adopted as a puppy. He was found in an abandoned house. Probably pure lab, but who knows. He had hip dysplasia even as a pup, but lived a good life of 14.5 yrs. Second dog was a total mix with maybe some lab in her. Got her at 1 or 2YO, and she was better behaved and had a better temperament than the lab. They were quite the team and got along with each other and everyone they met, even kids. And we didn't have any kids for them to practice with... Now we have a rescued Coonhound, I would guess purebred Bluetick. He was 4YO and spent 3 of his young years in the shelter and foster home. He has a wacky personality, probably hound-related, but is the most loving dog. The other guy was 2YO when we got him and is probably Shep/Husky/Lab, also a great dog. 

All this to say I will only ever rescue my dogs. I think you can get a good feel for their personality even from meeting them only once or twice, and personally I like the ones that are a little crazy.  I prefer older dogs to puppies because you can get a better sense of their personality, and I usually adopt from rescues that have the dogs in foster homes because you can learn a lot about them from the homes where they are living (good with kids, other dogs, cats, etc.).

If you have young kids, perhaps a puppy is a better way to go, but I don't see any reason to go with a purebred over a mutt. And for those who say mutts are too expensive, the expensive ones usually have had all of their shots and testing done, and yes have been neutered. The price you pay includes all of that. If you want a cheaper dog, go to a shelter. Most of the ones I have been to sell dogs for about $50.

I think from here on I will only rescue even older dogs. I am getting too old to entertain the younger ones!





Lester the Lab and Sophie the Lab? mystery mix



 
Woody the Coonhound and Cyrus the mystery mutt


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## AlaynaMayGoatLady (Jan 24, 2018)

I raise registered family dog/ working Border collies, so of course I prefer purebreds.    But - we also have 1 unregistered (read "possibly mix") Great Pyrenees, a BC/ Springer Spaniel, and a BC/ GP (from my stud and our Great Pyrenees.)  They are _all_ great dogs.  The purebreds we have are smarter and were all _much_ easier to handle as puppies, but the other three are great dogs too.  Of course, with Border collies being a super smart breed, that helps with the easy-to-train factor.
About the high prices for some rescue mutts, there _is_ a point to consider - mutt pups take just as much work for the seller/ foster home as purebreds.  They eat just as much, require the same kind/ amount of wormer, and still need shots and health certificates (at least, they do in FL.)  So up in the low hundreds is still an understandable price.  I have to confess, part of the reason I'm saying that is because I currently have a litter of 9 Doberman cross pups that need homes (NOT of my breeding) and I'm thinking about what fee I should ask for them.  Purebred pups will run more in the $800 - $1,000 range - and the breeder still will be working for very low dollars-per-hour, once you include the time it takes to acquire the breeding dog, train it, health test, keep up its health generally, and raise the puppies.  At least, I have a lot of time into my dogs and I imagine pretty much any good breeder does.  Just a thought.
(And, promiseacres, if you happen to need a Doberman/ red heeler (I think) cross, let me know!)


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## Latestarter (Jan 24, 2018)

ducks4you said:


> I love dogs. They are wonderful creatures and most people are not aware of all of things that can train your dog (or your horse) to do. I detest dog breeders. They only have $ in their eyes and their dogs suffer for it.



This is a very harsh, critical, stereotypical, and unfair statement.  I too am over 60, & the breeders that I have worked with over many years have been aboveboard, honest, caring and centrally concentrated on the health and well being of their animals as well as the breed, over and above virtually every other consideration. If someone wants to make $$, being a reputable breeder certainly will NOT achieve that aim. If someone wants to operate a "puppy mill" I don't consider them a reputable breeder, and in my opinion, reputable breeders out number puppy mills by a wide margin. I also am of the belief that since puppy mills have become more in the public view/knowledge, most folks try to avoid buying from such a source.

On the other hand, quality pure bred dogs are becoming so expensive to (raise as well as) purchase, that the "average" person simply can no longer afford them. Thereby helping to prolong the puppy mill mentality and operation.


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## promiseacres (Jan 24, 2018)

This will be his first year.... but he's been very dedicated to helping care for our family dog. I took Maizy to a basic obeidence course when she was about 6 months, though it was more for socialicing as she was and is still shy. She has been very easy to train though we will see how well she listens to her "brother"


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## BoboFarm (Jan 24, 2018)

@ducks4you I've bred working rotties for years. With the time, effort and money that it takes to raise high quality, healthy litters, it is by no means a money-making endeavor! All of the dogs that get the nod of approval to breed must pass all of their health clearances, show well and have working titles and be fed high quality food (raw, which is not cheap). Then, when puppies come, the dam must continue to be fed a high quality food in order to produce well for the litter, the litter needs to be socialized and temperament tested through the 8 weeks that we have them (this takes a HUGE amount of time and effort), they need to be weaned on to a high quality feed, they need to have a vet check, shots and health certificate to go to new homes, then they need to be evaluated for new owners. THEN, my contract has a "First Right of Refusal" clause. If any puppy or dog needs to be rehomed for any reason, they come back to me. Every puppy buyer has a lifetime of support from me as well. Breeding and raising dogs is exhausting. We have taken a long brake because it is so time consuming. We may not get back into it because it's so very expensive, monetarily and mentally. We've lost entire litters because not everything is hearts and flowers with animals. It's often times a heartbreaking endeavor. We bred our dogs to try to maintain and improve our breed. If you've seen rotties as of late they are being bred to the extreme. Most code of ethics breeders try to keep as close to the standard as possible. Backyard "greeders" are the ones that are just out to make a buck. they don't do what good breeders do. Please keep them separated from good breeders in your mind because they are not comparable to a good breeder.

Rant over. I'll get off my soapbox now.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 24, 2018)

The cost of raising a healthy well adjusted litter is immense, especially if you are  reputable breeder.  By this I mean the breeder who tests for the genetic problems in their breed, as well as the standard problems (dysplasia, etc.) that are common to all breeds now.  The reputable breeder uses healthy stock with good conformation.  The conformation standard of any species is designed for the use of the breed, not just to be pretty.  Udders for dairy, meat making for meat animals, and dogs for their working use.  You don't want a LGD if you want to compete in obedience, or a herding breed if  you want to hunt ducks, so choose the breed for the use.  The good breeder will also have a contract requiring the buyer to return the dog to them if for any reason the dog needs to be rehomed.  A reputable breeder will also quiz the prospective buyer about the fencing, housing, and care the dog will receive, and judge the buyer's fitness for one of their precious puppies.  Any "breeder" who tells the buyer to "just come on out and pick out  pup" without making sure that the buyer knows what the breed characteristics and temperaments are is not a reputable breeder.  A good breeder guards their reputation like gold and is careful where they place their pups because they want the pup and owner to be successful.
Rescue dogs and Heinz 57s can make good pets and occasionally one will be phenomenal at herding, etc., but buying a purebred takes away a lot of the guess work.  Buying a puppy and raising it will also avoid getting a dog that is super sweet until Aunt Jane shows up looking like the person who previously abused the dog.  Surprise and horror when Aunt Jane gets bitten. This happened to me with my brother's new 2 year old rescue dog that had been acting so sweet and suddenly came at me growling out of the blue.  I had been petting the dog previously with no indication of what would happen.  I did not get bitten because I knew how to act when the dog turned aggressive, but you never know with a rescue what their previous experiences have been.
Everyone has their preference as to what they like.  If you are getting a dog for 4-H showing you will need a purebred for conformation, and you might as well start with puppy if the child wants to show in obedience.  If you want to compete or just train the dog for herding then choose a herding breed.  You will be time, effort and money ahead in the long run. 
Good luck with your new dog whatever you choose!  All dogs deserve a happy life.


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## JesseroDo (Jan 24, 2018)

Rescues, 100% You may imagine you know what youre getting with a breeder, but its a total crap shoot. Worse than with a rescue. Rescues are usually VERY picky about who their dogs go to. They will help you find one that suits your particular situation. You wont just walk in to a place and randomly choose a dog. Most rescues know their dogs quite well, as they have been fostered for some time. Personally, I wouldnt trust the opinion of any breeder as they want you to buy a dog. Its their business and if they cant sell their dogs, they lose money. A rescues #1 concern is the dogs well being. Theyre in no rush to rehome any of them. A breeder trying to sell a litter is in a big hurry. Puppies sell... old dogs dont. 

Ive experience with both and if you want a really wonderful dog, you cant beat an older dog from a rescue. You WILL know what you get and you WILL know their healthy situation. Rescues sole reason for existing is to help dogs. What is the reason for breeders? Oh yes... to make money. My vote goes to a rescue dog. You wont regret it.


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## JesseroDo (Jan 24, 2018)

"The cost of raising a healthy well adjusted litter is immense, especially if you are reputable breeder. " IE - This is why, even for a 'reputable' breeder (if there is such a thing) is very motivated to sell their dogs. If they dont sell them all... crazy, ill, etc, or not... they will not recoup any of their money.


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## Latestarter (Jan 24, 2018)

x2  Ahhhh the view through rose colored glasses... we should all see so clearly.


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## CntryBoy777 (Jan 24, 2018)

I don't have a whole lot to add to the on going discussion, but there is 1 very important thing that has to be considered with whatever breed ya settle on....your son. I can tell ya from experience that to him the ideal dog will be a pup....with them growing up together they will have their own special relationship that will be priceless for his entire life....and he won't care if it is PB or mix....breeder born or shelter rescue...or, even the amount it cost to get it. Personally, I would research the breeds that "Fit the Bill" of the purpose for the dog and the characteristics and personality that would best fit your son. Having farm animals also has to play a part in the choosing....in the size range that ya are looking for I wouldn't discredit a Jack Russell....they are a terrier, but are highly trainable and very loyal....and Super smart. I know whatever ya decide it will be a really good one....just remember there aren't any perfect dogs out there....they all have their own personal quirks and personalities....just like all the other animals ya deal with.....


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## JesseroDo (Jan 24, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> x2  Ahhhh the view through rose colored glasses... we should all see so clearly.




What is that supposed to mean? Ive worked with rescue dogs for decades and have seen the sh*te that comes from supposed reputable breeders. Those 'titled' dogs end up in shelters more often than you know. Its really sick how someone can spend thousands on a dog and then dump them in a shelter when they dont want them any more. It happens ALL the feckin time. Sorry, hun, no rose colored glasses here. Just someone who has seen the reality of it all. Maybe you should volunteer at a rescue or shelter and help kill these supposedly well bred dogs? You might change your breeder loving tune.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 24, 2018)

JesseroDo said:


> A breeder trying to sell a litter is in a big hurry. Puppies sell... old dogs dont.
> 
> Ive experience with both and if you want a really wonderful dog, you cant beat an older dog from a rescue. You WILL know what you get and you WILL know their healthy situation. Rescues sole reason for existing is to help dogs. What is the reason for breeders? Oh yes... to make money. My vote goes to a rescue dog. You wont regret it.


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## JesseroDo (Jan 24, 2018)

CntryBoy777 said:


> Personally, I would research the breeds that "Fit the Bill" of the purpose for the dog and the characteristics and personality that would best fit your son.



This is nonsense. There are more differences between dogs within a breed than between breeds. You want a good dog, get one from someone who actually knows the dog and doesnt breed them. The best dogs Ive known were mixes who were old as the hills. You dont want a dog that will grow up to be who knows what. You want a dog that is known, who is trained, who has years of good reputation with children. Just because you get a puppy doesnt mean it will grow up to be an angel who is perfect for you. Most dogs in shelters were bought as puppies. JS


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## Ridgetop (Jan 24, 2018)

Actually, with the cost of testing, stud fees, vaccinations, etc. you won't make money breeding dogs.  If you are breeding show dogs, the cost of finishing a champion is exorbitant and the return from puppies is not there.  I no longer breed dogs because I believe that there are plenty of great puppies and dogs out there. 
There are lots of good purebreds and lots of good rescue dogs too.  Most rescue dogs are not to blame for their situation but everyone has their choice.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 24, 2018)

CntryBoy777 said:


> I don't have a whole lot to add to the on going discussion, but there is 1 very important thing that has to be considered with whatever breed ya settle on....your son. I can tell ya from experience that to him the ideal dog will be a pup....with them growing up together they will have their own special relationship that will be priceless for his entire life....and he won't care if it is PB or mix....breeder born or shelter rescue...or, even the amount it cost to get it. Personally, I would research the breeds that "Fit the Bill" of the purpose for the dog and the characteristics and personality that would best fit your son. Having farm animals also has to play a part in the choosing....in the size range that ya are looking for I wouldn't discredit a Jack Russell....they are a terrier, but are highly trainable and very loyal....and Super smart. I know whatever ya decide it will be a really good one....just remember there aren't any perfect dogs out there....they all have their own personal quirks and personalities....just like all the other animals ya deal with.....


Well said.
@promiseacres  the thread has definitely taken a life of it's own.   CntryBoy777 makes a great point. See who your son meshes with.  Within our large family there are so many personalities and many differences as far as dogs go.


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## promiseacres (Jan 24, 2018)

CntryBoy777 said:


> I don't have a whole lot to add to the on going discussion, but there is 1 very important thing that has to be considered with whatever breed ya settle on....your son. I can tell ya from experience that to him the ideal dog will be a pup....with them growing up together they will have their own special relationship that will be priceless for his entire life....and he won't care if it is PB or mix....breeder born or shelter rescue...or, even the amount it cost to get it. Personally, I would research the breeds that "Fit the Bill" of the purpose for the dog and the characteristics and personality that would best fit your son. Having farm animals also has to play a part in the choosing....in the size range that ya are looking for I wouldn't discredit a Jack Russell....they are a terrier, but are highly trainable and very loyal....and Super smart. I know whatever ya decide it will be a really good one....just remember there aren't any perfect dogs out there....they all have their own personal quirks and personalities....just like all the other animals ya deal with.....


I agree, a pup will be best. For my son and the fact we have a dog who is very used to being an only dog. She's never shown agression but...


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## promiseacres (Jan 24, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Well said.
> @promiseacres  the thread has definitely taken a life of it's own.   CntryBoy777 makes a great point. See who your son meshes with.  Within our large family there are so many personalities and many differences as far as dogs go.


I know... just been watching...reading.... frankly last few rescues weren't great experiences (one wasnt housetrsined, and had heartworms.... both things lied about, truth omitted by a rescue )! I hate when a rescue labels a dog as a breed and you know it's off. 
but to pay over $500 for a pup....IDK. guess I'll keep you all posted. We may not get one until after our fair.... but my friends pups are now about 10 days old. Definitely  appreciate all the input.


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## Mike CHS (Jan 24, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Well said.
> @promiseacres  the thread has definitely taken a life of it's own.



Understatement of the year.    They can be a pain in some ways  but my favorite lifetime pet was a small Beagle.  They have the fun personality of the Jack Russel and the intensity to focus which the Jack Russel often does not.


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## CntryBoy777 (Jan 24, 2018)

JesseroDo said:


> This is nonsense. There are more differences between dogs within a breed than between breeds. You want a good dog, get one from someone who actually knows the dog and doesnt breed them. The best dogs Ive known were mixes who were old as the hills. You dont want a dog that will grow up to be who knows what. You want a dog that is known, who is trained, who has years of good reputation with children. Just because you get a puppy doesnt mean it will grow up to be an angel who is perfect for you. Most dogs in shelters were bought as puppies. JS


Well, we all can speak of our own experiences, but to throw a blanket out there to cover all ya don't know or have experienced and label it as "Nonesense" doesn't accomplish the "Goal" of this "Thread". It is obvious that ya have a strong "Opinion", but that sure doesn't make ya right....and such a snappy attitude sure doesn't give any credibility to your stance either. I have raised dogs of varying breeds and mixes since I was in the 3rd grade, I'll soon be 60yrs old...so, I've seen and experience quite a few and am raising a PB GSD at the moment. I sure won't get into a posting match, but @promiseacres is asking for serious dialogue about this topic and not someone standing on a soapbox. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but so am I...whether ya are pleased by it or not....now, allow her to weigh information gained, because it is her "Thread" not yours.....


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## Latestarter (Jan 24, 2018)

JesseroDo said:


> What is that supposed to mean? Ive worked with rescue dogs for decades and have seen the sh*te that comes from supposed reputable breeders. Those 'titled' dogs end up in shelters more often than you know. Its really sick how someone can spend thousands on a dog and then dump them in a shelter when they dont want them any more. It happens ALL the feckin time. Sorry, hun, no rose colored glasses here. Just someone who has seen the reality of it all. Maybe you should volunteer at a rescue or shelter and help kill these supposedly well bred dogs? You might change your breeder loving tune.


  Edit to add entire post in quote.
It means that you ONLY see what you see. And the fact that all you see is sh*te leads you to believe that it's all there is. Sorry, but that's simply not the case. You DON'T see all the wonderful dogs from breeders that DON'T pass through your hallowed halls. You have a very "narrow" view on which you profess very "broad" statements.

I suggest "Hun", that your view is somewhat jaded. As an aside, there were many years in my past when I did volunteer work along the lines you suggest. But it has been many years and It hasn't been a topic of discussion. I still visit the local dog pound here on a rather regular basis. I don't care for "shelters" as they are indeed for profit enterprises.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 24, 2018)

@promiseacres I wish you well with your new dog (when the time comes)! 

Everyone will have their own mindsets, but I think in the end, you will know what's right and I look forward to following your journey.
Love being able to keep up with the "regular" BYH members. I think this will be awesome for your son.


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## Latestarter (Jan 24, 2018)

I apologize for spewing font on your thread @promiseacres and hope whatever you choose is the absolute best for you and your family. Decisions involving lots of $$ are never easy and you have to take many things into consideration. No matter what you do, I'm sure your kid(s) will be thrilled with a new puppy or dog. Looking forward to pics down the road.


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## promiseacres (Jan 24, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> I apologize for spewing font on your thread @promiseacres and hope whatever you choose is the absolute best for you and your family. Decisions involving lots of $$ are never easy and you have to take many things into consideration. No matter what you do, I'm sure your kid(s) will be thrilled with a new puppy or dog. Looking forward to pics down the road.


no  worries, hard to not say anything when someone can't see the other side of the coin. It will not hurt my feelings if the comments are turned off on this thread. Or I may just delete it


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 24, 2018)

promiseacres said:


> no  worries, hard to not say anything when someone can't see the other side of the coin. It will not hurt my feelings if the comments are turned off on this thread. Or I may just delete it


This is a good thread, several members shared great info. If you feel the need, you can request that the thread be “locked” instead of deleting it. This lets others read the thread but not post. I’ve done this in the past.

Who knows, there could be others in your same situation reading this thread


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## Beekissed (Jan 25, 2018)

So...maybe a Border Collie pup?  Would be super smart, great for agility trials, and could also double as a working dog for the family.


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## Simpleterrier (Jan 25, 2018)

Let's just sum it up. You won't know what the dog or puppy will be like till u get it and have it for a while. So choose what ever u think will work for you. And try your hardest. And no one can read the mind of the dog


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## babsbag (Jan 25, 2018)

I loved doing agility with my dogs. My one big wish was that I was younger. I messed up my only half good knee and decided to quit and hopefully delay another surgery. I had a blast though and my dogs were so happy to play. I only did fun runs so no ribbons and titles but they lived up to their name...FUN.  

My dogs would be so excited waiting their turn to run, they would be barking and watching and just happy. Well one very advanced handler had a dog that would obey her commands so well that she would simply go to the middle of the course and give commands and her dog would follow them. Right...left...slow...wait...come...all of them, it was amazing. But one day she had to ask me to keep my dogs from barking so her dogs could hear her commands.   That same dog would also work for kids that were in wheelchairs or had braces, etc. and couldn't run with their dogs. It brought tears to my eyes to watch these children, the dog just knew what to do and she did it well. She would always come up to the child at the end of the run for some lovin' . Very sweet. 

Your son would probably really enjoy agility.


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## promiseacres (Jan 26, 2018)

babsbag said:


> I loved doing agility with my dogs. My one big wish was that I was younger. I messed up my only half good knee and decided to quit and hopefully delay another surgery. I had a blast though and my dogs were so happy to play. I only did fun runs so no ribbons and titles but they lived up to their name...FUN.
> 
> My dogs would be so excited waiting their turn to run, they would be barking and watching and just happy. Well one very advanced handler had a dog that would obey her commands so well that she would simply go to the middle of the course and give commands and her dog would follow them. Right...left...slow...wait...come...all of them, it was amazing. But one day she had to ask me to keep my dogs from barking so her dogs could hear her commands.   That same dog would also work for kids that were in wheelchairs or had braces, etc. and couldn't run with their dogs. It brought tears to my eyes to watch these children, the dog just knew what to do and she did it well. She would always come up to the child at the end of the run for some lovin' . Very sweet.
> 
> Your son would probably really enjoy agility.



Yes, can't wait for agility!


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## GitaBooks (Jan 26, 2018)

Purebred dogs are great, since you know what you are getting and you are getting a puppy so you can raise them in your environment and to know the rules of the house. If you feel called to get a purebred puppy then go for it. 
However, I did want to say that since I work at a rescue and volunteer at a shelter I have a soft spot for it. We work hours and hours for no pay just to see wonderful dogs, abandoned and over-looked, find the homes they need. We see purebred dogs, puppies, seniors, even dogs with papers come in for reasons such as moving, the people being tired of them, so often it is not the dogs fault. Adoption prices vary, but their purpose is to cover boarding, feeding, spay/neuter, vaccinations, deworming, flea medication, any treatment for health issues, and microchipping, so it is actually a bargin. 
I would suggest you go for what you feel called towards. But I can tell you this, rescuing a dog is one of the most wonderful experiences out there. And mutts are always one of a kind.  : )
Their are breed specific rescues if you want a purebred. Our shelter recently even had a corgi!!
Also, while rescues don't often know the background of a dog, they do behavior testing and since adult dogs are already mature and showing their mature behaviors, you actually have a good idea of what you are getting. I've seen some of the sweetest, best behaved dogs at the shelter. Border Collie mixes are common around where we are, and they are extremely intelligent and gorgeous too!

Good luck!


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## babsbag (Jan 26, 2018)

promiseacres said:


> Yes, can't wait for agility!



Find a good instructor. While I adore the first one I had if my second instructor had been my first I wouldn't have had to undo some bad habits.  It was very hard to re-teach some things we had been doing wrong for years.


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## Duck lover88 (Jan 28, 2018)

So this is kinda late but oh well but if you don't know already there are lots of great herding dogs in shelters but like always there is always a small risk when you adopt. also don't forget that each year, approximately 1.5 million shelter animals are euthanized (*670,000 dogs* and 860,000 cats). Soo ur perfect pup may be out in a shelter!! but if you don't want to take the small risk and just go with the corgi thats OK to.

Here is one of our dogs we got at the shelter, he also herds our goats and sheep well...




 


And here is another dog we got from the shelter and he is insanely good with chickens/livestock... and FYI he is duckling sitting in this pic and that is duck feed on the rag.



 

Soo my point here, if you want to you could maybe just vist ur county shelter and see what they have there and don't forget that that they get new dogs almost every week.
And if you would rather just get the corgi that is alright to.


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## Mike CHS (Jan 28, 2018)

Those are cute pictures


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## Duck lover88 (Jan 28, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> Those are cute pictures


Thanks!


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## Bossroo (Jan 28, 2018)

I have a husband and wife friends that after they retired, volunteered at a no kill shelter in los Angeles.  After working there for 7 months, they quit in disgust due to the shelter's practices of adopting ( selling dogs for $300 each ) and knowingly dogs with serious medical and behavior issues.  Those that they couldn't get rid of within 3 weeks were sent to shelters in the Northern states. They got most of their dogs eather from city streets or puppy mills in Mexico or the Caribean islands as well as local strays or surrenders. I can tell you at least twice as many horror stories of "adopted" dogs as you can tell of successes. Stories of the dogs bitting the hands that feed them as well as their families and friends to chewing furniture, walls, cabinetry, carpeting, cronical runaways, killing neighbors' livestock, etc. , to having cancer and other severe medical issues that saddle the new owners with the Veterinary bills that run into the thousands . Then the northern shelters do the same with the dogs that were not adopted out in the lA shelter. One of our neighbors with a boy 11 and a girl 9 have returned 5 dogs this past year with eather serious behavior issue ( biting ) or serous medical isues within a few days of getting them.  So what do these shelters do with the dogs that are returned to them ???


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## Missmonty (Feb 1, 2018)

I may not have a popular opinion here on this topic BUT, I believe rescues and purebreds have their place. It really depends on what you're looking for. A rescue can be a fantastic dog but you are getting a lot of unknowns. This isn't really a bad thing persay but something to keep in mind. If you're okay with the unknowns (health or temperament issues can come up) then by all means get a rescue! I love rescue dogs and have owned mutts in the past and they turned out to be fantastic dogs! 

Now here's where I feel like I'll start losing people  

I personally breed AKC Siberian Huskies. The great thing about going through a reputable breeder is you will have an idea on temperament of puppies, apprx adult size, etc. I do highly recommend finding a REPUTABLE breeder tho. This often means you'll be paying more. Not all dogs are bred equally. Look for a breeder who health tests their breeding stock with the recommended tests for the breed. Ask to see their contracts, if they don't have one RUN. Their contract should go over things like if you ever have to rehome the puppy what they expect (most want the puppy back rather than it going to a shelter). Most good breeders also bring up that they offer lifetime breeder support, that basically means that if any questions or concerns arise that they're more than happy to help you out. Husky puppies for example for AKC registered ones range from $400-1500 in my area. You can also plan on a big difference in quality in puppies as well. 

I can't stress enough that if you're going to go through a breeder to go through a good one. If you're not wanting to spend the money required to go through a good breeder then in my opinion all the pros of going through a breeder are gone since you'll have the same risks as going to a shelter with questions about temperament and health. So at that point I'd stick to shelter dogs


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## Southern by choice (Feb 1, 2018)

Missmonty said:


> I may not have a popular opinion here on this topic BUT, I believe rescues and purebreds have their place. It really depends on what you're looking for. A rescue can be a fantastic dog but you are getting a lot of unknowns. This isn't really a bad thing persay but something to keep in mind. If you're okay with the unknowns (health or temperament issues can come up) then by all means get a rescue! I love rescue dogs and have owned mutts in the past and they turned out to be fantastic dogs!
> 
> Now here's where I feel like I'll start losing people
> 
> ...



I don't think you will lose anyone.   The majority of us know that there are reputable breeders, know that there is good reason for breeding PB dogs, and the value of such. I would also say that most of us have had a mutt or two (or more) along the way and have loved them and seen their value as well. 
There are some that really don't get that rescues, shelters and the like have turned into a huge money making industry. They really are the new "mill". Of course this isn't the case with all.


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## AClark (Feb 1, 2018)

I agree with the high prices of "rescues". After we had to put down my husbands cattle dog, my husband was really bummed. I looked all over for a cattle-dog type for him. One place wanted $400! The other point I don't like are the ridiculous contracts that they can stop by and visit any time they please, etc etc - no way. I don't have anything to hide, but I also don't appreciate people just showing up and demanding stuff of me. I feel like if I paid for an animal, it's mine and they no longer have a say in it.  
Then I found these two at a local animal control, supposedly a male and a female - no, both males. I convinced my husband to go look at them and maybe pick one. We couldn't decide on which one to bring home. They wanted $20 adoption fee - I said "You should run a special, 2 for 1 deal) as a joke and they did since they were over-crowded. That said, they didn't come with any shot records or anything, so that was on me. 

I've had both purebred and shelter dogs. Shelter dogs are a big unknown. One of these chews stuff up and has to be redirected to a bone. In fact he ate my door mat this morning. The other had to be taught not to lift his leg on everything in the house - other than that, good dogs.
If you want something for a specific purpose, I would totally go the purebred route with a good breeder - hands down. In the long run, you're less likely to have health issues or other problems if you go to a good breeder that knows what they're doing.


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## greybeard (Feb 1, 2018)




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## promiseacres (Feb 1, 2018)

@AClark they are beauties!
@greybeard that's a great caption

Pretty much have decided to wait until we get through the first year before we get another dog. Probably stick with a local shelter unless we find a good breeder with pups at the right time.  Got in an argument with a "rescue " about dog food costs.... rubs me the wrong way when they insist on overpriced dogfood for their rescue dogs then have trouble paying medical bills.....  and then beg for handouts. Idk IMHO frugality goes a long way when you're a rescue..... not just the ability to panhandle.


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## AClark (Feb 2, 2018)

greybeard said:


> View attachment 43205



LOL, he's actually not the chewer - the aussie cattle dog looking one is, this is the one that thought it would work out to pee on things in the house - he doesn't anymore though. This one looks more like a Border Collie in build - vet marked them as Catahoula mixes. 

Promiseacres - I think the same. If they are truly a rescue or shelter (like where I got those two from) they'll happily accept anything donated. So what if it's a 55lb bag of Pedigree and not Taste of the Wild - dogs gotta eat and it's free to them. /End Rant
The whole "rescue" thing really rubs me wrong, some of the rules - must have a fenced yard. Ok, I live in the middle of nowhere, my yard isn't fenced at all, my dogs go with me out to do chores and stuff off a leash - nope can't adopt a dog to me because no fence. 
Stuff like that makes the good rescues doing good work and trying to find dogs homes look bad.


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## Bruce (Feb 2, 2018)

AClark said:


> They wanted $20 adoption fee


Wow, your shelter is CHEAP! In a lot of places, by the time you pay the "adoption" fee, you are half way or more to a purebred from a decent breeder. And that shelter dog may have been ferried up from some state where people don't neuter their animals and strays are packing the shelters.


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## Latestarter (Feb 2, 2018)

Difference between a pound and a "shelter"... the pound isn't for profit.


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## AClark (Feb 5, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Difference between a pound and a "shelter"... the pound isn't for profit.


Exactly, this one is run by their animal control, it isn't an actual "shelter" - so no shots, neutering, etc. The local rescue is a couple hundred dollars per dog - their dogs sit there for extended periods as well. 
Bruce, also, I live in one of those states that ferries animals up north to fill shelters because ours are overflowing. They had dogs loose inside their kennel because they had run out of space - we freed up an entire space by taking these two and they were glad for it.


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## Wehner Homestead (Feb 7, 2018)

This might be long... lol. 

@promiseacres we are at similar places in our lives. Young kids to worry about being at the top of the priority list.

I’m going to start by saying I’ve worked for 3 different vets in our town (one I didn’t agree with practices and left for a position at another and worked there three years, the last was my vet and I worked there while in nursing school for 2 years. Loved the last two.) This afforded me the opportunity to be around almost every breed of dog. I did everything from taking care of boarded dogs in the kennels to assisting with appointments and surgeries to clerical work. I also participated in the dog portion of our local 4-H for two years. We stopped because my sister got big in basketball and participating in dogs interfered. (Wasn’t my choice.) I’ve also researched breeds extensively and have developed graphs of traits both admirable and unsavory. I often get calls from people asking my opinion on the appropriate breed, help finding a RESPECTABLE breeder, and tips on what to discuss and have ready plus training. 

We are not candidates to adopt from true rescues because our yard isn’t fenced. My argument is that I live on 42 Acres. I want my dogs to exercise. 

All that said, I’ve had both types of dogs. My current housedog is a GS mix that we adopted from a pound. Her story is on my journal so I won’t go into all the details. Her biggest issue was that if you touched her tail, she’d turn around and put her mouth on you as a warning. We didn’t have kids at the time but knew we wanted them so we desensitized her. Promise Acres doesn’t have this “luxury” and I don’t at the present time. I wouldn’t trade this dog for a million dollars though and I would do it all over again as long as my kids weren’t endangered. 

We have an English Shepherd. Her story is also on my journal. She’s amazingly smart and agile. The drawback is that they don’t tolerate training with a heavy hand or even a very harsh voice. Ours was supposed to help herd (not like a Border Collie) and be an overall farm dog. She chased a goat and DH threw his hat at her. She will not even look at the goats now. Just something to keep in mind. She is a wonderful farm dog and great with the kids, even though the kids arrived after her. 

We have two Aussies that I haven’t introduced on my journal yet. They were obtained as pets/farm dogs/companions for my two older children. They each got one and they know who they belong to. I LOVE this breed and we can actually pair them together if we decide to do our own litter. They are from a well respected breeder. Her dogs are fully tested, socialized, you name it. She’s wonderful and loves my children too. She’s just a text away and has never hesitated to assist with anything. I would be happy to refer you to her if you are interested. She’s in Southern Indiana along the Ohio River like me. Her prices are decently reasonable and she typically offers limited AKC registration on dogs going to more of a “pet” home to make sure that her dogs aren’t priced too high for families. She does sell expensive dogs with full AKC to show/working/breeder homes too. She is flat amazing. I would buy from her again in a heartbeat. (Full AKC can be purchased later for a few if your son decides he wants to do some of those things.) She also has horses, cats, and lots of grandkid so no worries about socialization. She usually has four or so litters a year from 4 females so usually availability isn’t a problem. Repeat buyers and referrals make most of her sales. She rarely advertises! 

We also had a side of the road special that was unable to have her breeding distinguished at all. She was a nightmare from somebody getting a cute pup and having no idea what to do. Fine with kids but took a ton of energy and time to get her on the right track. 

I really want a lab but won’t buy one. Our local pound always has a surplus of every age so I’ll just go pick one out when the time comes. I can’t see buying one when I could give a home to one that has had unfortunate circumstances. That being said, I don’t believe in rescuing any animal that will deal directly with livestock. Those animals are usually where they are for a reason. I know that they have been rehabbed successfully by some but time doesn’t allow for that with small children in the home. 

Each family must do what is best for them. I, personally dream of a Corgi also. Not while my children are little. My reasoning is that they can injure their backs fairly easily and that doesn’t mix well with young children. Some are fine with kids while others are snippy. This could be specific lines but wouldn’t chance it. I’ll get one when my kids are early teens to avoid my kids being too young and grandkids. (As I said, this is my personal decision and I would never discount you from choosing otherwise.) 

Another breed that you should consider is a Brittany Spaniel. Not a livestock dog but very trainable and family oriented. If I think of another breed, I’ll edit to add at the bottom of this post or create a new one. 

During my 4-H years, lots of the kids did well with mixed breeds that were obtained as pups when oops litters happened...

I really think the best fit for your son is a breed that trains easily and is great with kids. Personally, I’d lean toward an Aussie for the farmability too (may not be an actual word! Lol)  I will say that Aussies are too much for some people. They leave them to their own devices and wonder why they get into mischief. You have enough experience with the breed to know about training them also. Ours are crazy smart and attached as appropriate. 

Whatever way you choose, I wish your family the best of luck!! (Feel free to message me if you have additional breed questions.)


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## Bruce (Feb 7, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> I, personally dream of a Corgi also. Not while my children are little. My reasoning is that they can injure their backs fairly easily and that doesn’t mix well with young children.


Doesn't that suggest that there is a "structural" problem with the breed?? Were they screwed up by breeding for specific traits, like English Bulldogs which would cease to exist at all if it weren't for vets and C-sections?


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## Wehner Homestead (Feb 7, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Doesn't that suggest that there is a "structural" problem with the breed?? Were they screwed up by breeding for specific traits, like English Bulldogs which would cease to exist at all if it weren't for vets and C-sections?



The long bodies of Corgis lend them to easier back injuries similar to a Dachshund.


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## Bruce (Feb 7, 2018)

Yep, old neighbor's dachshund broke his back going down the stairs. I believe he decided to jump the last one. I think I would avoid a breed that could so easily break and need to be put down.


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## Wehner Homestead (Feb 7, 2018)

Corgis aren’t as bad as Dachshunds. I just feel like it’s raking more of a chance with young children around that can be tougher than necessary without realizing the consequences.


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