# Some questions about guardians



## Calendula (Feb 4, 2017)

Well, maybe not really questions. I really did not know what to call this post.

I have not lost any animals yet. Thank goodness.
But today, while feeding, my dog, Bandit, started barking. Typically, he barks because he's cold and ready to head inside, but this was persistent. When I finally came out of the barn to get some water, I saw him standing in the yard, barking and staring me down.
I went over to see what the heck he wanted and he started heading away from the house and yard and towards the pasture that we plan on fencing in. There's a part of our old garden that we dump dirty bedding and he paused by this and was aggressively sniffing. There, I found what I believe to be coyote scat. We've had ONE coyote that dared to venture too close a year or two ago and Bandit (he is truly the best farm dog) chased him off. We've had no problems since.
He then kept sniffing around and started following along some pawsteps. I didn't look very close. They looked a few days old and for all I know, they could be Bandit's.
There was also some urine just outside of the chicken yard that Bandit also didn't approve of.
Right now, everyone is locked up as tightly as can be. Bandit is getting extra love for finding this evidence.

Basically, should I look into a guardian? Or two? Next year, my chickens and goats will be housed separately, so one guardian wouldn't be able to protect both.
Our fence is six feet high, so could a coyote even get over that? I'm assuming probably, if they're determined.
Is there some kind of weird anti-coyote spray I could spray to deter them?
And finally, would a dog, llama, or donkey be best?
The horror stories I've read about some llamas and donkeys kind of deters me, but the waiting period for a usable dog when my problem feels immediate also kind of deters me.
Maybe some electric fence on the outside while I train up a dog?
I wanted livestock guardian dogs, but in a few years when our pastute was bigger.... We have a VERY tiny pasture. Less than an acre. It'll get bigger, but not quite yet.

For now, wish us luck. And hope that Bandit's ears are still as good as they were a few years ago so he can wake us up if there's anything off.


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## Latestarter (Feb 4, 2017)

I'm no expert but generally speaking, if you will have the birds locked in their coop at night and the goats penned up inside a structure, there should be no real reason for an LGD at this point. Fencing should be your first choice defense. Electric/hot wire should be added to that to enhance the protection and keep things from getting out as well as getting in.  If you aren't sure that an animal will contact the hot wire up top while still touching ground to get shocked, you can run a ground wire up top as well so any animal can not avoid touching both and getting shocked. You can also place a hot wire down low outside to keep anything from trying to dig under. You can place a hot wire at goat knee height inside to keep the goats from rubbing on the fence, which over time ruins the fence. If you raise your guardian with the goats and the chickens (free ranging) then the dog should learn that both belong to you and protect them both. The tracks you saw might have been a neighbor's dog or a stray dog as well. You might consider buying a cheap game camera and setting it up to actually see what's out there. Good luck!


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## Calendula (Feb 4, 2017)

That's reassuring. We actually have some electric fencing that my grandparents' have with their horses. It isn't the best if it's what I'm thinking of, but I think it will be fine for now.
Usually I don't lock everyone up. I've never had a reason to, but now I guess I need to. I go out every morning now, so it's not like it's that big of a deal.
We'll also be setting up a camera to try and see exactly what it is. 
I was worried I was going to have to jump into getting a livestock guardian right now.  Or put it on my "within the next six months" list or something along those lines.


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## Beekissed (Feb 4, 2017)

Why not just leave the farm dog outside all the time?  He should be able to take care of a property that small and when all the livestock are in buildings for the night.  Small acreage is easily guarded by farm dogs.


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## babsbag (Feb 4, 2017)

The only coyote I have seen on my land was at 10 in the morning. I lost about 25 chickens and a few ducks between 8 AM and sundown over a course of a few months so don't think that coyotes only come out at night. 

A 6' fence is good, but it won't keep them out. I would run a hot wire around the top, and make it HOT.  You could get an LGD puppy now while the area is small and then when you have a bigger area and need the LGD will be ready. But getting an LGD is not something to take lightly, it is a big commitment and they often need some training with the livestock, especially chickens.  You 'usually' can't just dump them in the field and expect them to not play with livestock, which is a big no no. However, since I didn't know any better, I did that with my first two dogs and it worked out fine with the goats, not so fine for the chickens. They eventually outgrew the chicken fetish but it was about 18 months before they were safe with the birds.


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## Calendula (Feb 5, 2017)

@Beekissed I could, but he's not a farm dog breed. Plus, his fur is very thin. He gets cold way too easily to be outside, especially at night.
And he's a spoiled brat that sleeps in my bed at night. 

@babsbag Great... I'm usually at home during the day, so at least I'll be here if it tries any funny business. Before it got extremely cold out, the chickens were free ranged and we didn't lose anybody.

I think I'll wait for an LGD. I'm not sure when our big pasture will be implemented. Electric fencing it is.


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## Beekissed (Feb 5, 2017)

Are you sure you'll be able to resist bringing him inside when it's cold?


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