# *update video pg 7* Newfreewill Rabbit Adventure



## Marie28 (Feb 27, 2017)

Decided I should keep a journal or our adventure :]

We have just started our rabbit. We have 3 Silver Foxes. 1 Doe (Ruby) and 2 Bucks (Topaz & Onyx). We where told Onyx was a boy and he was kept with his sister until we noticed some aggression. He was not very willing to let us look at his underside but finally we where able to see that our doe was actually a buck. He did not look very developed (his testicals where easily mistaken for hairless skin) We will never make this mistake again!

Now Ruby (4 months) is currently taking all her hay and trying to make a nest! We are not sure if it is a false pregnancy, I tried to feel her belly but I have not idea what I am doing and youtube videos only help so much. We brought her inside so we can keep a closer eye on her... She is currently asking for more hay (standing on her back legs facing the box of hay on a shelf). She and Topaz had an accidental meeting and March 5th would be 25 days. The last time her and Onyx (half brother) was together would make today 28. We will be cleaning out her cage today and give her a nesting box.


----------



## Marie28 (Feb 27, 2017)

Ruby's cage all clean and she is eat her nesting box hay  . We filled her bowl and hay rack so we will see if she get back to it!


----------



## Pastor Dave (Feb 27, 2017)

Just have to wait and see.


----------



## Marie28 (Feb 28, 2017)

yes we will. Last night she tore a hole in the box . we don't have the material to make her one of wood, so we will be leaving it for now. she hasn't really added any hay so we have our fingers crossed that she isn't pregnant or if she is we won't see kits till after the 8th. 

Not sure if we should remove the box if a 4 days... I don't want to move things around to much, but I also don't want too waste so much hay changing it out.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 1, 2017)

well she is back at it today! After making her box completely useless for babies (giant hole), she has been picking up hay and strips of cardboard (you can kinda tell in the picture her mouth is full of paper bedding and a large strip of cardboard). She lets me "help", i offer her a a hand full of hay and she takes them from my hand a puts them in the nest . 

Would it be normal for a pregnant doe to make a nest if she is actually at 21 days instead of 30? And is it okay to not change her bedding even though she has defiantly peed and pooped in it? She been working so hard I hate for us to change it and then she stops trying to make a nest or gets to stressed out if she is at 30 days.


----------



## promiseacres (Mar 1, 2017)

I would give her a 2nd clean box with straw if she's pooping and peeing in the first. I have 1 doe that needs a litter box while she has a nest box. Otherwise the nest box becomes a litterbox.  even when the kits come.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 1, 2017)

Right now she really doesn't have enough room for two boxes. I decided to clean it out and repair the hole... she continued to nest so we will have to wait and see...


----------



## Pastor Dave (Mar 1, 2017)

I wish I lived closer. I'd make you guys a nest box out of 1" by 10"s.
I have a couple does that want to "dogbone" their hay and try to make a nest a good week, maybe two early.
They get so relieved when I put the nest box in at 28 days. Then, I just wait for more labor signs. Slow down on eating, lie flat a little more than normal, pant, pull a little hair. Then the hair explosion, and box is full!


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 1, 2017)

We didn't plan on breeding her this young so we really are not prepared, I wish we had a good box for her :[ What measurements do you use? With research I've heard some conflicting things. 

We are hoping its just hormones and future mommy instincts. But I would rather waste all the hay and time then wake-up to smashed kits or kits on the wire. She was acting pretty frantic for awhile (reminded me of cleaning the house when unplanned family is coming in an hour ). It was pretty funny to watch her try to stuff one more piece of cardboard in her mouth.


----------



## Pastor Dave (Mar 1, 2017)

It's been a little while, but if I remember:
10" wide bottom. The length is around 14", or length of  doe and a half. She just needs enough room to go in and turn around.
I make the sides abt 8-10" tall at back with a 6" top fastened across the back. The side angles from the where the top fastens to the the front, stopping at 4" of height to fasten the front board. Make sure the sides do not sit on the bottom board, but fasten to the edges of it giving you the full board for the interior. Drill 3/8" holes in bottom to allow out waste.


----------



## DutchBunny03 (Mar 1, 2017)

That nest box design is awesome, btw. The rabbits like to climb on top of them, and it preserves heat very well. They're really easy to make, too. 
Personally, i hate wood shavings, but they might work in your predicament. Use them in place of hay for bedding, they absorb way better.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 1, 2017)

That box looks great. I need to pay our bills before we can go buy wood. We don't have any wood shavings but we just shredded some paper and paper bags from the grocery store and I will be adding that tomorrow. 

She tore the box open again and has been using the pieces to add to her nest, I tore a box up for her so she could have more things to use andI guess she decided it wasn't enough. She emptied her hay feeder and was going for the dirty floor stuff until I caught and I decided to start tearing up a different box.


----------



## Pastor Dave (Mar 2, 2017)

Looking at my nest boxes last night when I fed them their hay and put em up for the night, I checked the length again, and it's closer to 18"


----------



## Hopalong Causually (Mar 2, 2017)

Here's another option for a nest box.  I built this one according to specs provided in the book, "Rabbit Housing" by Bob Bennett.  It's made completely of 1/2" x 1" wire  with the tops bent in to prevent snagging and also provide a location to slip in cardboard sides, front, back, and bottom.  The front is shorter and I hinged it along the bottom to allow simply swinging down the front to allow kits passage once they start jumping out.  That way they can go in and out at will without getting "locked" out.  The door front can be snap-locked shut until that time.  It measures 18" x 10" x 8".  The front is 6" high.
I punched holes in the bottom cardboard to allow waste drainage.  Once the litter no longer needs the nest, the box can be easily cleaned by discarding all the cardboard and washing the wire.  I had one doe use this nest box for two litters and it worked great.  

I recently built two wooden boxes close to the dimensions Pastor Dave mentioned above but I put 1" x 1/2" wire bottoms in them and put a cardboard floor on top of that.  They're going into use tomorrow.  I'll report on their usefulness once these nestings are completed.  I can't imagine anything easier to clean and sanitize
 than the all-wire box, though.


----------



## Hopalong Causually (Mar 2, 2017)

Here's another picture of the all-wire box in use.  I put a wooden roof on the back to give the doe a place to escape the little ones, but the kits took to perching on it themselves.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 2, 2017)

I love the easy cleaning of the wire. Not sure if she would rip up the cardboard though...
We live in Northern WI, so we made the hutches with hide spots, the does will have a enclosed space for kindling and to get away from the wind (bucks have a corner blocked off). We plan on adding the box so the kits can safely be removed and easy cleaning. The wire would be less bulky, we will have to see if she would leave the cardboard alone lol.

Well day 31 and no signs of going into labor. She's been eating and drinking. We will wait till tomorrow and then remove the box. If nothing new happens tomorrow we will be taking out her box.


----------



## DutchBunny03 (Mar 2, 2017)

The cardboard ones seem pretty popular, but i dont know how well they would hold up. They would quickly soak up urine, and be chewed to bits in a couple days. 
If you stuff her hutch with shavings, straw. etc., she may stop tearing up her cardboard boxes. Cardboard isn't really desirable nest building material.


----------



## Hopalong Causually (Mar 3, 2017)

I would NOT propose that the all-wire nest box is appropriate for all situations.  In my application, it was installed in an all-wire hutch which allowed urine to drip/evaporate out the bottom.  Putting it in a solid bottom portion of a hutch might not be best but would actually be no different than a solid wood bottom nest box.  The cardboard was only used to help contain the hay nesting material.  Four or five days after kindling, I assumed the need to replace the hay but found that it was NOT wet or even damp.  The cardboard on the bottom wasn't even damp.  So, I left the original nesting hay in the box until the entire box was removed from the hutch.  None of the kits in two litters developed nest box eye.   The doe did not chew the cardboard either.  Others certainly might.  I was so impressed with having a porous or semi-porous bottom in the nest box that I put a 1" x 1/2" wire bottom in the wooden nest boxes I most recently built.  It would be a simple fix if I find the need to put in a different bottom later.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 3, 2017)

Well so far it looks like this has been just a ploy to get more food. She is the reason we don't free feed them at this age, they get about a 1 cup of pellets a day (3/4 in the morning and 1/4 at night) and unlimited timothy hay. She eats everything while the boys will have food left over from the last feeding. We plan on giving more fresh once we get the garden going. 

This is a cute picture I took of her sleeping in her food bowl today.
 
Its getting warmer this weekend so we will be finishing the outdoor hutches! We need to make the "table", put shingles on the roof and give them a coat of paint.


----------



## Pastor Dave (Mar 3, 2017)

Sounds hormonal. If you were wanting to breed her, she should be very receptive now.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 3, 2017)

Well we still have March 10th  We are waiting for the 80% (8lbs) of her senior weight or 8 months. Her last weigh in was 7.2 lbs. She gain about pound in 14 days (our scale is not super accurate but the boys only gained 6oz). So when we get the hutches i order it will be considered.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 4, 2017)

So i guess she heard my husband and I talking because this morning she decided to pull fur. Still no babies but I've read to many horror stories about removing the box early so she will get to keep it for one more night...


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 7, 2017)

Thought I would update... Still nothing.
Yesterday she was laying on her side and let my husband feel her belly and he said he felt one lump about 3-4 inches. I have not had a chance to feel her but she is looking very large and uncomfortable... If i have my dates and did math right it would be 31 days today....


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 12, 2017)

Welp Ruby is a mamma! She had one very large DOA about the length of my hand and at least one (possibly two) alive half the size of the other! She must have heard us talking again because this morning around 10am she was pulling tons and tons of hair, stomping her foot (i went over to see what she wanted and she bite the hay rack and started shaking it) gave her more hay and she made a lovely nest.

The dead one was in the middle so I though she had one very large kit. But upon further investigation I saw something moving in the fur! She cleaned the dead one very well and there was almost not blood in the whole nest. For being so young she is a great mamma, I couldn't be happier with the out come of this. I understand that one single kit most likely won't live, but I'm very content with her mothering skills. I'm not 100% sure she is done so I will get some pictures later. She has almost no concern with us messing with the nest.

One question I do have, how long can kits survive with out being fed?


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 12, 2017)

well she is back in the box... maybe some more on the way? We gave her a few BOSS & a bit of oats on top of her pellets and she hasn't eaten them (very abnormal for her). If i have the right day then this would be 36?!?! I'm guessing the large DOA was stuck and preventing her from having the kits earlier.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 13, 2017)

Checked on them this morning and its just one. The littles guys belly is all full and he's super wiggly! she's being a good mama!


----------



## promiseacres (Mar 13, 2017)

You may not see her feeding him, they usually feed only twice a day for a short time, 10 or 15 minutes. Just keep a an eye on the kit, a wiggly kit with a full tummy is a great sign. Just watch mama for mastitis with only 1. Congratulations


----------



## samssimonsays (Mar 13, 2017)

Congrats! I had French Lops who successfully raised just one kit. It is easier with body heat and sometimes moms milk doesn't come in with only one but if his tummy is full then things sound like he has the best start possible with an attentive mom!


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 13, 2017)

Thank you 

Checked on he kit again and his belly is full and he was very wiggly.

I will keep a look out for mastitis.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 14, 2017)

my husbands perfectly timed video, skip to 0:57 if your impatient


----------



## Pastor Dave (Mar 14, 2017)

She will get better with time too, if this is her first litter.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 14, 2017)

Yes it is. After all the reading and research I have done I am shocked at how well she is doing. Once get the grow out pens made we will be breeding her again.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 21, 2017)

*Ruby & kit Update*
The kit has grown A LOT and is now looking like an actual rabbit! I will take some pictures tomorrow. Ruby has decided that there is not enough stuff in the nesting box she has pulled so much fur (i took the fresh stuff out and saved it for future litters) and torn more of her cardboard nesting box. She had a full thing of hay

We will removing all the rabbits to the new hutch tomorrow. I can't wait to have them out of the house!
Here are some pictures (before the handles and latches added)...

  
Two does on the ends with the buck in the middle. We have the roof to add & paint (needs to be above 30 degrees for 2 days ) but for the time being they will be in the garage. 
  this is the doe's part (Onyx will be in there until we build another hutch for him)
 This is the "hide-hole"/nesting area for the doe
 this is the bucks part (topaz) we be adding his board in the middle floor part
 this looking into the doe's (ruby's) from the bucks (topaz) we put 2 2x4's and double chicken wire (with about a 1 1/2 gap) hopefully this will be good enough. 
 we put a board up so onyx & topaz can't see each other. They have met though chicken wire before and they were both very aggressive.


----------



## Latestarter (Mar 21, 2017)

Wow... now that is a rabbit mansion! looking sweet!


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 22, 2017)

Thank you :]] We had no plans, my husband is not one to follow one set of directions, so we kinda made it up as we went along.


----------



## Pastor Dave (Mar 22, 2017)

Looks really good. Your husband has some skills.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 23, 2017)

Everyone is outside! We put topaz and onyx out yesterday afternoon, topaz is the one with most anxiety so we thought it was best not to put ruby in just in case he started freaking out. They both ate,drank, peed and pooped last night so I would consider that a win!

Ruby was not very sure but ate her BOSS right away. I lined the hide-hole/kiddling area with hay and the add the fur that was on top of the kit. I blocked Ruby's entrance so I could put the kit in with out her trying to jump in. She waited by the door the whole time, when I unblocked it she sniffed my hands and the checked on the kit, jumped back out and drank some water.

Oh and Ruby and Topaz met through the chicken wire. When she was done sniffing him and went to a different part he thumped his foot like "hey get back here!". He actually seems to be more calm having her in there. He didn't try to hide when I brought the kit out.

*Ruby's kit update* 11 days
I tried to get a picture but my phone is crap. Its eyes are open and is covered in fur. He was so wiggle when I but him in a box to take him out side I though he was going to pop right out! I'm not sure how big a kit his age is supposed to be. Does any one have a size reference? I just wonder if he's on track.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 23, 2017)

He can drive me crazy (I like having a plan ) but he is amazing at making things work. We don't have the money for new tools so we did all the cutting with a circular saw and a lot of the hardware was from all our hoarding. We did a lot of extra work to minimize any lips so it will be easier to clean.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 25, 2017)

We got another silver fox rabbit!
This is sapphire she is 2 months old and so tiny!
We had the breeder tattoo her before we took her home today so her ear has been a little droopy. She eat hay the whole way home and is now sitting in a corner wondering why its so quiet (the breeder had it colony style so there was a lot going on on her old home.)


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 27, 2017)

Sapphire is doing great. Eating, drinking, pooping and peeing.
Its nice and sunny so we did weights today.
Onyx 4 months 24 days is 7 lbs 8 oz ( 3/6 was 6lbs 14oz)
Topaz 5 months 26 days is 7lbs 14 oz (3/6 was 7lbs 10 oz)
Ruby 4 months 24 days is 8lbs 13 oz (2/23 was 7lbs 2 oz)
Sapphire 2 months 6 days is 2lbs

edit: we use a kitchen scale that is semi unreliable, we mostly just make sure that they are indeed gaining weight.


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 27, 2017)

Onyx enjoying his hide hole. When we get the other hutch done he will not have one. But as long as he doesn't poop or pee in it we leave it open for him.
he is my husbands favorite


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 27, 2017)

Ruby <3 She hasn't figure out to go on her shelf. I put a few sunflower seeds up there but she hasn't found them yet. this what she does when I check on the kit. She watches me the whole time


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 27, 2017)

This is ruby's kit. Last night around 5pm he was running around the cage, I put him back in the nesting box before we went to bed, i'm not sure if he could get back in...

And then topaz (he does not like pictures )


----------



## Marie28 (Mar 27, 2017)

And little Sapphire :]


----------



## Marie28 (Apr 11, 2017)

Thought i should do a update :]
Ruby is doing great. She is getting a little chunky looking so when we wean the kit she will be going on a diet. We are hoping to breed her right after we wean the kit.

Ruby's kit is a little piggy just like its momma. Every time I go into the garage it hits the food bowl and tries to eat the food before I close the door (the food bowl is on the door) it. I caught him yesterday as he was falling out. I'm hoping to try to figure out the sex next week... 

Onyx has lost his food bowl and hay rack privileges. He some how removed not only the bowl but the hanger that held the bowl and the hay rack.... we put his pellets on his shelf now and his hay just goes on the floor of the cage. He is currently on a diet, since he was dumping his food my husband was feeding him extra.... Onyx met our dogs yesterday. I think the dogs where more scared of him then he was lol. 

Sapphire is doing great she is growing pretty quick and has started to lose her baby fluff.


----------



## Marie28 (Jun 6, 2017)

Breeding Ruby to Topaz today. He fell off once and then seemed to be less interested. took her out and then put her back in after an hour and he did started humping her again but got distracted when my husband moved in front of the cage.... So we will put her back in again tonight and hopeful the best..


----------



## Marie28 (Jun 6, 2017)

Welp he fell off at least one more time. Then he got distracted by us standing by the door so we gave them a little privacy. When we walked back in he was humping her face and Ruby had enough and no longer lifted for him. We will put them back together tomorrow morning just to make sure.


----------



## Pastor Dave (Jun 7, 2017)

If I have a doe that I am concerned will be compliant, I locate the doe and buck in close proximity over night or so before they breed.

I leave the doe in with the buck an hour. Generally after breeding, the doe wants to urinate as soon as back in her cage. If she has abt an extra half hour in the buck's cage where she will be reluctant to urinate, all the better for fertilization. I rebreed in 8 hours. If the first round if activity wasn't received well, it will generally prompt her to go into heat and 8 hours later will generally get the job done.

Did your doe ever find her shelf and use it from your earlier post? I figure once the kit was running around, she would get up there to avoid it some. That's what my moms do. Haha


----------



## Marie28 (Jun 7, 2017)

They have a "window" that they can see & smell each other. My husband put them together today and saw 3 fall offs for sure. When he went in to get he immediately went at it again and then just kinda went stiff on top of her.  So i think that it would make it 4. 

I think the kit made more use of the shelf then Ruby did. I'm sure when there are more kits she will like it.  We used it as another feeding spot too because the current bowl is only big enough for one fat head . We will have to add another one or get a wider one in the near future.


----------



## Pastor Dave (Jun 7, 2017)

I use the gravity fed, J-feeder. 5" for a buck, and 7" wide for does that will have a litter in with her. The 7" also works ok for a grow-out pen. They stay cleaner. You can fill it and it will usually feed for a good couple days or more, and no flipping it over!


----------



## Marie28 (Jun 27, 2017)

Well Ruby has started making a nest at day 20. Hopefully this is just her way of of doing things and is not a false pregnancy. She has also started to be super friendly asking for attention every time I pass by her cage. Crossing my finger for a large healthy litter!


----------



## Marie28 (Jun 27, 2017)

Pastor Dave said:


> I use the gravity fed, J-feeder. 5" for a buck, and 7" wide for does that will have a litter in with her. The 7" also works ok for a grow-out pen. They stay cleaner. You can fill it and it will usually feed for a good couple days or more, and no flipping it over!



Where do you buy them?


----------



## Pastor Dave (Jun 30, 2017)

Rural King, TSC, just abt any farm supply store. Sorry, been away a few days and just checked in today.


----------



## Marie28 (Jul 2, 2017)

Mama Ruby has finally started making a nest in her hide-hole! I missed getting a picture of her hay staching. Thankfully I decided to but the pine shavings yesterday so I dont have to destroy her hard work.


----------



## Marie28 (Jul 9, 2017)

Ruby had her kits! She has 4 healthy black ones and 1 DOA. Pictures soon to come.

I do have a question, the DOA was very pale grey skin and looked under developed but the same size as the live ones. Does anyone know what would cause this...


----------



## Pastor Dave (Jul 9, 2017)

Just didn't develop the way the others did. Mine have these pretty much each litter they kindle.


----------



## Marie28 (Jul 11, 2017)

They are super wiggly and vocal! I think Topaz (the sire and ruby's next door neighbor) is more upset with us getting them out than ruby is.... 
Two of them have a small white spot on there head. The parents are supposed to be 100% silver fox (we have pedigrees). Is it possible they are not or is this something that pops up in silver foxes?


----------



## Goatgirl47 (Jul 11, 2017)

So cute, congratulations!


----------



## LocoYokel (Jul 11, 2017)

How sweet!  My buck is Silver Fox but none of the does, it is neat to see the full-blooded kits.
CONGRATS!!


----------



## Marie28 (Jul 11, 2017)

Thank you! I did some ready and the white spots do show up in silver foxes. I was hoping for a bigger litter, but I cant complain to much because she is a great mom and we are breeding for our own consumption. When our blue SF doe gets to breeding age it will be nice to have a foster mom back up plan. Not sure if its due to her breeding too early or our blue bucks sperm. Only time will tell.


----------



## Marie28 (Jul 19, 2017)

Quick update! Everyones eyes are open. "spot" and "fattie" are always up front uncovered and are very reactive to me opening the hide-hole. "spot" almost jumped right out today. I wont be surprised if they start wondering out in the next couple days. "spot-ish" and "little black" stay in the back all covered up. They all look very healthy and well fed. I will be cleaning out the hide-hole tomorrow and will take some more pictures.


----------



## Marie28 (Jul 20, 2017)




----------



## Goatgirl47 (Jul 20, 2017)

They're getting so big!


----------



## Marie28 (Jul 28, 2017)

Well I tired to sex them today. I'm pretty sure one is a buck,but only because it looked more buckish than the other 3. I guess I need to wait a couple more weeks....


----------



## LocoYokel (Jul 29, 2017)

It's hard when they are so tiny, I still have problems with 4 week olds...  it's like using a microscope to spot a moving target!


----------



## Marie28 (Oct 20, 2017)

Well lifes been pretty crazy and work has me doing 50+ hours the past month :[[.
But as far as rabbits go we sold all four of Ruby's kits and we are waiting for Sapphire and Ruby to kindle the 23rd is day 30. Onyx was very very VERY enthusiastic about meeting Sapphire. He fell off of her 5 times before she had enough and started getting upset.ANd then we put her in 2 hours later and he fell off 3 more times. It was very funny to watch. Topaz was his normal worried about every sound so we didnt watch him and Ruby very closely.

Both started a nest early which is normal for Ruby but we will see about Sapphire.
 Sapphire's first nest.
 Ruby's Master piece.
And our new Hide-hole/nestbox/sitting self design.


----------



## Marie28 (Oct 31, 2017)

Ruby had her kits on the 27th! 8 wiggly babies. I think they are all be black. Its been snowy and windy here so I only took them out the first day and pretty much just checked for dead ones. Today is suppose to be nice so I will get them in a box and take them inside for a closer look. 

We will rebreed sapphire soon, possibly today if the weather is good.


----------



## Marie28 (Nov 1, 2017)

looks like two have white spots but the rest are all black.


----------



## Marie28 (Nov 18, 2017)

My very excited husband took this video of the kits :]]


----------



## LocoYokel (Nov 19, 2017)

Awsum, love your hutch!


----------

