# For AI users on Boer Goats (or Saanens), which Buck do you use?



## MidnightChickenLover (Oct 17, 2010)

I'm heading in to AI, looked over some nice bucks. I'm just wondering on your favorites. I've talked to our collector/inseminator and he pointed out to some nice ones he has used, he also breeds our Angus, and does a very nice job. So, who do you preffer..buck wise?


----------



## MidnightChickenLover (Oct 27, 2010)

Okay, I'm choosing from this collection. My inseminator uses them and swears by them and will also make a purchase with us for lower shipping costs. How do you think is the nicest?
http://www.biogenicsltd.com/boer.html


----------



## freemotion (Oct 27, 2010)

Holy Cow!  They look like bulls! 

This is a great site for supplies for running one's one fecal exams.  I have to post it on a thread of its own....THANKS!


----------



## ohne (Oct 28, 2010)

Outback Boers Red Warrior is beautiful in person you should check out the farms website. They have some beautiful offspring of his on their site http://redneckboergoats.com/. My friend that took over my Boer herd bred several does to this buck this year.


----------



## ohne (Oct 28, 2010)

As for Saanens I would consider talking directly to a breeder, you are much more likely to get something better this way. I'm just not to impressed by the dairy bucks listed with BIO-Genetics. I would suggest you look at Redwood Hills, their Saanens are registered under the herd name "Companeros". They have exceptional Saanens, I would say easily one of the best herd in the nation. Another outstanding herd is "des Ruhigestelle". Both of these herds are worth checking out if you are interested in finding a quality Saanen AI sire.


----------



## ()relics (Oct 28, 2010)

The only two I would be interested in are the NZ buck toward the top of the list and the SA buck near the bottom....the rest are bred to intensely toward show animals...and I can't afford to feed those genes in my herd...make nice show goats  but imagine how much feed those giants need to stay in prime shape... may want to check on teat structure, as well.   alot of  those overbred show rascals have more than 2,  I can almost guarentee anything with EGGS in it name has more than 2 or at least they tend toward throwing kids with more than 2....unless you don't care about teat structure.  Powell Holman bucks are, in general, bred right and most are from early SA/NZ imports...those black creatures are really nice too, but I think someone around here can get you a better deal for those boys....I have been down the red road...Don't ever plan on going back....jmo


----------



## jodief100 (Oct 28, 2010)

()relics said:
			
		

> I can almost guarentee anything with EGGS in it name has more than 2 or at least they tend toward throwing kids with more than 2....unless you don't care about teat structure.


I was talking to a boer breeder last week, she had 2 bucks disqualified from the KY Buck test due to structural issues.  Both were EGGS offspring.  She was told by the organizers they see that frequently with EGGS bucks. 

I agree with the rest, bucks bred to be heavy show goats are too high maintenance for most people to make money on, including me.  

Unless what you want is a big heavy grain hog show goat.......

Personal Caveat:  I dont like AI in general.  It can be a very valuable tool but used improperly it decreases the gene pool.  Too many people trying to make short term gains at the expense of the long term.


----------



## ohne (Oct 28, 2010)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> Personal Caveat:  I dont like AI in general.  It can be a very valuable tool but used improperly it decreases the gene pool.  Too many people trying to make short term gains at the expense of the long term.


True you need not look any further than the dairy industry to see the results of utilizing AI to the end of decreasing a gene pool. Today in the Holstein and Jersey breed it is difficult to find animals that aren't related to each other at some point. Trying to remember back to one of my animal science class, three years ago at this point, but I believe it is something like 98% of Holsteins are related to a single bull. In the Jersey breed I know there has been an effort to bring in foreign blood lines in an effort to improve genetic diversity. Yet I have seen two major issues with this. First when ever the "hot new bull" is brought over he is heavily utilized and soon everyone has something out of him and we are right back where we started. Secondly European dairy cattle are not the same as American cattle. I can only speak of the Danish system from personal experience but cattle are not bred for nearly as high volume production as they are here. Nor do they conform to our conformational standards nearly as well. 

This said I still must say that I am a strong advocate of AI. It is a great tool in improving your herd, putting the best genetics in the nation at you finger tips at an affordable price. Not to mention it can reduce the need for maintaining bucks. Personally I hate bucks, there is nothing about them that is even remotely appealing to me, if it wasn't for the need of a clean up buck at the end of the season I would never have one around. 

As far as issues with reduction of genetic diversity I feel this falls on the shoulders of breeders. AI is a tool and like anything else it needs to used wisely. Breeders need to be responsible, pay attention to bloodlines and what they are breeding. There is nothing wrong with moving away from an old style to follow the new trends in the breed. Progress is in my opinion not a bad thing and I enjoy seeing a uniformed herd. But you can still achieve this and maintain the genetic diversity of your herd if you pay attention to what you are doing. 

As far as the trend in Boers of being bred big for show, while I no longer raise Boers ( i sold them all when I went to college) my preference is towards large powerful animals in the show ring. However I bred for show and form must follow function. If you breed for show then go with a buck that has a proven record on both himself and his progeny. If your aim is production or some other pursuit then find a sire that will serve to further the goals of your program. 

These are just my view and opinions on breeding and everyone is entitled to their own. personally I feel that if its your program breed for what you like and makes your happy. They are your animals and you should do what you want... as long as its not be reckless or irresponsible in some way.


----------



## Renegade (Oct 28, 2010)

I think you will have more and better choices at either of these:

http://www.thegoatfactory.com/servlet/StoreFront 

http://www.superiorsemenworks.com/xcart/home.php 

Donna Finley
Finley Boers


----------



## poorboys (Oct 28, 2010)

ON THE SUPERIORSEMINTANKSWORKS.COM THEY HAVE A BUCK LISTED MARVINS SMOOTH OPERATOR, HE HIS A GRANDFATHER TO MY TOP MILKER, IF YOUR LOOKING FOR PRODUCTION. SHE'S JUST A SMALL DOE IN HEIGHT, BUT SHE SURE MAKES UP FOR IT IN MILK, ALSO HAVE SOME FROM JESTA FARMS HERE, THEY WOULD MAKE SOME GOOD PICKS FOR YOU IF YOUR SHOPPING FOR SEMIN.  I KEPT HER DAUGHTER, ALTHOUGH SHE'S THE SMALLEST OF MY DOELINGS THIS YEAR BUT IF SHE'S ANYTHING LIKE HER MOM, I'LL HAVE PLENTY OF MILK. I DON'T DO AI, SO NOT THAT KNOWLEDGED ABOUT THE WHOLE THING, JUST KNOW SOME GOOD DOE'S AND BUCKS OUT OF THE PIC.   PATTY


----------



## ()relics (Oct 28, 2010)

Renegade said:
			
		

> I think you will have more and better choices at either of these:
> 
> http://www.thegoatfactory.com/servlet/StoreFront
> 
> ...


Same genetics different suppliers....I can't speak about what I don't know but I know and show against both the Messer's and Able Acres...their lines would be for show not production...Phil is the president of the IBGC, indiana boer goat classic, a show circuit for boer goats...and the Able Acres families also show in the ibgc...All really good people just have show lines...I have had personal experience with one of the farms on the other site, not to mention names but there is a number in the farm name...Again lots of powell holman influence...basically the same as the other company...collateral damage, newest Fad...Again BIG goats=lots of feed...jmo


----------



## MidnightChickenLover (Jan 24, 2011)

Yeah, I'm looking for a bigger more old fashion structure, but more importantly meat fast... It's hard to choose. Most breeders I have found that offer any AI have the thinner modern look I'm trying so hard to strive from... I just went to a show last fall, and I saw what I was looking for. None of the modern look was to be seen...
Thanks for the Saanen advice... I wasn't too pleased with them either... and also thanks for the tips on EGGS...


----------



## MidnightChickenLover (Jan 24, 2011)

Okay.. I think I have my favorites... can you pick yours out of mine?
RRK Toboton Django
http://www.biogenicsltd.com/b236.html
DSM Jeremia
http://www.biogenicsltd.com/b070.html
JJJR Beau Duke
http://www.superiorsemenworks.com/xcart/product.php?productid=648&cat=0&page=1


----------

