# I am about to tear my hair out..



## TexasShepherdess (Apr 18, 2012)

Please tell me this is normal, or not normal..or what..but I am about put over the edge..

Put ewe back in with flock after weaning her lambs..she was kept up with the show stock, so was not out with the flock when I brought home Halo. Ewe is a good size, very friendly and pretty tough.

I come home next afternoon to ewe acting strange..ears are wet, my thought is, ewe's bag is full, not feeling so hot, Halo the pup trying to get her to act "normal"..I get ewe up, all is good. I walk BACK out to pasture after putting horses up, find ewe laid out on her side..with halo messing with her..I think HAlo thought she was going to die for about 15 seconds..I proceeded to lock her in her "crate" in the pasture..her "time out"..ewe was fine, got up and ran off during my tirade at the pup.

I leave pup in timeout for about an hour..let her loose..she leaves the ewe alone..but I dont trust her..so I put ewe in the catch pen with hay and water and leave her for the night. next morning, ewe is acting normal..she doesnt seem to be so uncomfotable with her bag. I let her out yesterday evening..everyone ate dinner..this ewe and another one, at times, will try and steal kibble from the dogs..but the dogs growled and the ewes went out into the pasture to graze..great..

This morning, I feed..everyone is acting normal..I go back out an hour later to let the horses out..Halo has the ewe pinned in a corner of the catch pen (which I leave "open")..her tail is wagging as she is attempting to mess around and almost play with her..Ewe has cuts on her hind legs where she's been nipped..BIG tirade at the dog again..Im about to leave for work, so pen ewe up again..the rest of the flock was out grazing in the pasture..

I am at my utter wits end with this..I love this pup dearly and she is a great guard dog..but the reason I got a pup while I still had Angel was because I wanted Angel to TEACH her..but Angel DOESNT..she just watches her..I work 40 hours a week..Im not home, so I cant supervise all the time. I learned she cant be in with young lambs..I can handle that..but now shes annoying a full grown ewe..

Ive walked her the pasture..Id hid and caught her in the act, with SERIOUS consequences..We've had time out..I dont know WHY this one ewe is causing this reaction with her! Any help appreciated..


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## aggieterpkatie (Apr 18, 2012)

I don't have any LGD experience, but it sounds like Halo doesn't recognize the ewe as a part of the flock.  Can you pen Halo inside the pasture for a few days until she sees the ewe as a part of the flock?


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## TexasShepherdess (Apr 18, 2012)

THat is what I personally felt like Aggie..but I wasnt sure..The reason this ewe and her lambs were out of the pasture was because Halo made one of her lambs her "Special friend" and proceeded to chew the eartag off of him....hence my learning she cannot be out with any lambs under 2 months old..at least for now..

Halo's problem with being penned is she DIGS..so I could pen her, but I gurantee she'd dig her way out..so, my other option is keeping the ewe penned for afew days or a week..but will that help or will it further "segregate" the ewe from the flock in Halo's mind?


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## peteyfoozer (Apr 18, 2012)

How old is Halo, and what kind of dog is she? If she's an LGD "pup" they don't mature until they are closer to 2 years old. You don't want her loose with the stock without supervision until then, as they DO play, like ALL puppies will. You might try putting her kennel in the pasture, so she can still see the stock and warn off predators, but not get herself into mischief. I have 2 Maremmas and the saving grace was that they would rough house with EACH OTHER instead of the stock, although until this winter, they were not unsupervised when in with them. A good LGD is worth its weight in gold (That's assuming this is an LGD breed, and not a different breed you are trying to make into a 'guard dog', as they are very different animals)
and is worth the time and effort taken to make sure they are successful guardians. Good luck!


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## TexasShepherdess (Apr 18, 2012)

She is 6 months old..3/4 Pyr, 1/4 Anatolian. was raised with her mother, brother, and father with a small herd of nubian nannies who apparently were very tough with her. I got her at about 3-4 months old.


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## peteyfoozer (Apr 18, 2012)

6 months is too young to trust her on her own. Oftentimes people with an older LGD will allow the adult dog to 'train' the younger, but in the absence of that, you will need to keep her separated somehow, preferably close to the flock, but without access, until she is more mature. She is just doing what puppies do, and you don't want bad habits to start, or lose stock in the interim! There is a great board on LGD's which is very informative. WorkingLGD's on Yahoo. I would really suggest joining and any questions you have during her journey to being an adult working dog can be answered there by people with lots and lots of experience!


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## TexasShepherdess (Apr 18, 2012)

Yeah, Ive been on there afew times..(the yahoo board)..

What do most people reccomend, in regards to confinement? TOTAL confinement away from the stock (like in a barn?) or in a "run" in the pasture, so she can see her charges? Should she have time "out" with them, at any point or be strictly confined?

I am just baffled on why she picks on ONE to harass..I know this is "normal" for a pup..she honestly thinks she is a sheep..or they are dogs..Im not sure..


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## peteyfoozer (Apr 18, 2012)

no, i would keep her where she can see the flock but not get in trouble. Mine I had a fence between them and their critters and would daily take them in to patrol the perimeter and let them guard while i was around. If they played with the stock they had to be on a leash so i could correct them, by jerking them back and letting them know it was inappropriate. These dogs are really smart, it doesn't take much. If they continue being a problem then being locked in "solitary" sometimes helps.
I had one pup that never did play with the stock and one that loves the stock, but couldn't resist playing. I lost a couple of chickens raising these two, but now they guard my poultry, sheep, goats and calves.
If the ewe was more aggressive with the pup it would be better, as the ewe herself would teach her to respect her, but it sounds like the pup is playing with her 'because she CAN'. She's not likely trying to actually HURT her, but is having fun with a new playmate. Could be the other sheep won't allow it?


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## TexasShepherdess (Apr 18, 2012)

When this ewe was pastured with her lambs..she rolled the pup afew times..she "was" the head ewe, til I took her and her lambs out..now it's like shes this meek thing. the other sheep don't put up with the pup's guff..

I was reading that sometimes putting wonderdust or bitter apple helps deter any mouthings..anyone know if this works? Just another blockage in the pup's quest to play with the sheep. Half of me also thinks she is bored..the older pyr doesnt play with her..shes got oodles of bones, but I know teenage dogs get incrediably bored quickly..

I KNOW there is a good LGD in this pup..I think she will be even better then the older girl..if I dont end up killing her before she's fully grown. She understands correction VERY well..she knew she'd done wrong the other night when I caught her messing with the ewe...


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## Remuda1 (Apr 22, 2012)

Wow Tex, I'm so sorry you're having trouble with Halo. I was at my wits end too with my first girl. I would reprimand her WHILE I was out there... But I couldn't be out there all day, everyday. It was so frustrating because I could see that SHE was so frustrated too. In desperation, I called the guy that I got her from to see if I could borrow one of her sisters for a month or two. The difference was like night and day. She quit chasing sheep and started chasing her sister...... Of course, they're now almost a year and a half and her sister is no longer on *loan* to us, lol. I can tell you it was the best thing I could've done for the sheep, the dog and for my peace of mind. They still play like they are six months old, and I completely believe that they'll be two or more years before they really mature. I hope you can find something that will work for you. If not.... See if you can *borrow* one, lol.

Honestly though, if you can't get another one I would be tempted to try a shock collar.


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## TexasShepherdess (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks Remuda..I feel, based on her personality, another dog to "Play" with may wear her out and keep her mentally happy..I just dont know if I can do ANOTHER Pyr..when Ive got the older girl still too..but it is an option I guess..Id like to get her some sort of fun toy..mabey a doggie jolly ball or something?

I let them have some supervised time together late last week and it went well...Ewe has been penned in the pasture..I was waiting abit for her bag to go down from weaning..which it has alittle..as I feel this may be contributing to her "blah-ness" and may make her less apt to disapline the pup..ewe is acting abit better now, so I may try an evening together this week sometime and see how it goes.

Ive gone thru many different trains of thought..from sell the ewe to sell the pup..and I dont want to do either! Guess I will just keep taking things slow in the introduction..and see where we go from there.


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## Remuda1 (Apr 23, 2012)

I understand, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.  Sure hope things turn around for you


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## TexasShepherdess (Apr 25, 2012)

Update..

I bought her a new pull rope toy and we played abit (in the pasture of course!) with it. I then let the ewe out this morning..ewe was so happy to be on the grass..the pup never once even walked near her. I walked out and hid for afew minutes..all the sheep laid down..in three distinct piles..the "white girls" who are all sisters, the ram with my one blaze faced ewe..and the "new" ewe..by herself..the bigger pyr laid near the new ewe and the pup laid in the middle of the white girls..all was calm and quiet..thats how I left them this morning..

Hoping all is still well this evening..


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## Remuda1 (Apr 30, 2012)

How's it going with your pup?


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