# How to keep water from freezing...



## secuono (Dec 19, 2010)

How do I keep water from freezing? I have chickens in my horse barn, no horses. A section of the barn was turned into a work shed and now a chicken coop. The chicken's water freezes unless there is a heat lamp over it.

I want to have rabbits in the horse section in large hutches, but I cannot add heat to it. So how do I keep their water bottles from freezing??


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## Bryannjamie (Dec 19, 2010)

That is tough, I have multiple rabbit cages and travel out there 3 times a day minimum to change water.  I have found its easier when the heated goat waterer is nearby because i just drop the waterers in there and swap them out with each trip.  If you have multiple rabbits together you might try a heater/waterer like the chickens use but once you seperate them its too hard to put them back together  i know of nothing.  I even tried using those insulated wraps that go over water bottles for people, but nope.


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## tortoise (Dec 19, 2010)

Most people switch to bowls/crocks over winter.  I put in a heated automatic water system but it's been more trouble than it's worth, so I've gone back to crocks.  Crocks are faster to fill than bottles anyway.


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## collector (Dec 19, 2010)

We have plastic dishes that hang on the side of the cage. They work well easy to get the ice burg out of. We give them water in the am. then deice and water again about 1/2 hr before sun down. They will drink what they need before it freezes over. The only other thing I can think of, is move south LOL.


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## therealsilkiechick (Dec 19, 2010)

i have a mini barn and i had one electric heater in it. the bottom rows would freeze water bottles but the top rows wouldn't. i added another heater sits lower so now only the bottom row freezes. i take the thawed ones from top and switc them to the bottom ones and put frozen ones in top cages and the heat melts them. for the ceramic dishes i put them in front of heater to thaw while i feed and water everyone. they loosen enough i just dump them in a 5 gal bucket and refilll before i leave.

 before that i was filling a 5 gal bucket full of frozen waterers and takeing them in the house and running hot water on them. then i took cold water out in gal jugs to refill. realized if i leave jugs up top of cages they don't freeze so can leave them there so don't have to come in house for water so much.


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## Bryannjamie (Dec 19, 2010)

And if you breed for food, obviously culling down the volume is a good idea before winter.  I do have a mom and her 4 month old girl still together so one less water bottle but still, as said, bowls are easiest.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 20, 2010)

I bought two bottles and switch them out twice a day. Oreo drinks a lot so I really could have done it three times a day.  But two was plenty. I just did it each time I went out to take care of the goats.


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## cutechick2010 (Dec 20, 2010)

I use crocks/bowls all year round, so that is not a problem for me. If you don't want to use bowls, they do make heated rabbit water bottles, and you can get heated waterers for your chickens too. Do a google/Yahoo search for them if you don't have a Rural King or TSC near you.


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## Caprice_Acres (Dec 20, 2010)

I use cheap storage dishes from the local dollar store.  I take a hot poker and poke holes in the bottom as well as two holes for zip ties up by the lip in half of them. I then zip tie the dishes with holes to the cages.  Then, I nest solid dishes into them. I fill the dishes half way in the morning, and top them off to halfway again in the evening. If I need to, I dump and refill to half way.  Eventually when it's all frozen, I dump the dishes. To prevent breaking the dishes, I dip them rightside-up in my bucket of hot water, which loosens the ice immediately and it can be dumped easily. I use HOT water, as hot as my tap will let me so they have water available as long as possible. This method works GREAT for me, and it only costs 1.00 per cage, and I do it year round. For litters or growout pens, I just have LOTS of dishes. It works great.


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## Bryannjamie (Dec 27, 2010)

My only comment now would be not to fill waterers with hot water.  It freezes faster than cold water, but tepid is okay


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## Zephyr Farms (Dec 27, 2010)

I insulate the cage with old blankets/comforters, and try to put a little bit of the blanket over the bottle. It helps a little bit! 

BTW- never have heard of heated rabbit water bottles!


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## cutechick2010 (Dec 27, 2010)

Zephyr Farms said:
			
		

> BTW- never have heard of heated rabbit water bottles!


Yup, they have them at my local Rural King. I hadn't really thought about there being such a thing either until I saw them.


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## tortoise (Dec 27, 2010)

They're like $20 each!  I don't think anyone with a herd could afford them.  Crocks are seriously easy.  I bang them on the cement floor to pop out any ice and refill.  Even the plastic ones hold up just fine to this - and it's easier to get ice out of plastic dishes.


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## dipence71 (Dec 27, 2010)

the heated water bottles are great but expensive and dont hold nearly enough water(or my rabbits just drink way to much LOL). the plus is they dont freeze!!!!so I use them in the winter and regular in the summer


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## 1Chick Magnet (Jan 8, 2011)

my local agway has heated bottles.  
I have chickens and bunnies.  I made all the chicken pens heated bases out of cookie tins. they use a 40 watt bulb.  I leave an extra heated base in the building to thaw ice cakes  so I can leave water outside. these heaters will keep 3 gallons in a plastic container thawed. you could switch out dishes so one will always be liquid.


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## elevan (Jan 8, 2011)

Bryannjamie said:
			
		

> My only comment now would be not to fill waterers with hot water.  It freezes faster than cold water, but tepid is okay


Basic thermodynamics.  In order to freeze water must reach 32* or below.
If you start with hot water - pray tell - how do you think it freezes faster than cooler water?

For some reason I seem to hear this alot.  My own mother even says it. Do an experiment and put two dishes in your freezer one hot and one tepid and see which one freezes first.  It's gonna be the tepid one.  However the hot water will freeze to a clearer consistency.


I don't have rabbits but I take hot water out to my chickens and goats twice per day in the winter.  By the time I walk from the house to the barns with the water some of the heat has come off of it and it's just right for drinking.


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## 1Chick Magnet (Jan 8, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Bryannjamie said:
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I was wondering about that. thought it sounded strange. I live in NH. cold  water freezes first.


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## PattySh (Jan 8, 2011)

Being in cold Vermont, I use heated water bottles for my moms with a litter. I found them cheapest at www.jeffers.com  I use crocks for individual rabbits and  rubber bowls for groups of growing litters.


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## terri9630 (Jan 9, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Bryannjamie said:
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I was told that cold water boils faster than hot water when I was taking home economics in Jr high and got in so much trouble when I pointed out to the teacher that the water was already hot so the hot water had to boil first since the cold water was going to take time to heat up to the temp that the hot water was already at.   Old Wives tales, some people just have to believe no matter how unlogical it is.


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## Lorelai (Jan 9, 2011)

Well, our solution is a heated cable... you can get them at Lowes or Home Depot in the plumbing department. Ours is probably about 25 ft long, and it's enough to wrap around four bottles stretching across an 9 ft long hutch (plus, it has to reach to the plug-in). It works pretty well for us... granted, we are in NW Washington where it doesn't get below freezing too often or for too long, but this winter has been colder and we've got freezing temps right now. It keeps the bottles from freezing solid. Hope this is helpful!


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## sc00ter4900 (Feb 2, 2011)

I dont have power out to the rabbit but I bought these rubber bowls and they work really good. Got them from our feed store. The crocks were a waste of money.

Scotty


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## tiffanyh (Feb 2, 2011)

He is right. Hot watercan freeze faster, it makes sense that it shouldnt, but it actually does, see below.



> Bryannjamie wrote:
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> My only comment now would be not to fill waterers with hot water.  It freezes faster than cold water, but tepid is okay
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> ...


I have heard the too. I teach thermodynamics and I actually just taught this lecture this week- when the university was actually open for the one day this semester  ! Although I don't teach this specific effect and just do straight enthalpy calculations but the phenomenon of hot water freezing faster is called the *Mpemba effect*. Supposedly a tried and true process involving the theoretical change in molecules as water freezes (what we think should happen) versus the actual process which is related to the environmental conditions as water cools in low temperatures. 

Based on effect like evaporation of hot water and the amount of dissolved gas in a hot water sample, lowering mass and therefore, decreasing the energy needed to freeze a hot sample, the hot water will experimentally freeze first. Maybe not a solid freeze but an scientific term of freezing in which solid will appear in a sample from collision of molecules. Non uniform cooling may also lead to freezing faster as the cold mass on the bottom or outside can freeze first and before a uniformed cooling sample. 

Check it out:
http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/mirrors/physicsfaq/General/hot_water.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba_effect


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## tiffanyh (Feb 2, 2011)

Sorry. I am a thread killer for some reason. Always have been.  

Hope you got your answer OP!


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## tiffanyh (Feb 2, 2011)

I have to say though, it is cold enough here in CT to have either freeze fast!


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## Bryannjamie (Feb 2, 2011)

Thanks for your support Tiffanyh.  Now what were some of you saying about old wives tales???


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## tiffanyh (Feb 3, 2011)

No problem.


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