# tape worms UPDATE: FECAL SHOWS BARBERPOLE OR BANKRUPT EGGS



## treeclimber233 (Jul 12, 2012)

Can a goat get tapeworms?


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## elevan (Jul 12, 2012)

They most certainly can.

You need to use Safeguard or Valbazen for 3 days in a row.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 12, 2012)

thanks


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 13, 2012)

We use Synanthic 3cc per 100lbs for 1 day
or equimax horse paste, at two or three times the dosage is fine.
or quest Plus for horses(has to be the plus), also at 2 or 3 times the dosage for horses.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 13, 2012)

The last time I wormed them I used Quest Plus.  Update on goats:  I took a fecal to my vet and the sectatary told me there was not enough fecal to test.  So I took it to another vet and they did a float for me.  There was only one type of egg present.  Judging by the pictures they had on a chart it was either a barberpole egg or a bankrupt egg.  I thought it looked more like the bankrupt egg because the barberpole egg looked like it was "fuller".   This egg looks like it is "empty" on both ends with the center looking full.  So I called my vets secretary again and told her I got the fecal tested and I needed to talk to the vet for meds and amounts.  She apparently never called him because after I waited an hour and a half I called back and got the answering service.  She  paged him and he called me back about a half hour later.  He suggested I get Valban and use it.  I told him I had already bought Safeguard and he said that would work.  Just use it at double strength.  I know everyone here says to use it at 3x the dose.  But if I am wrong about the type of worms they have I don't want to kill my goat by killing too many worms at once.  What dose should I use????


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## Roll farms (Jul 13, 2012)

An egg (as in one) in the poop doesn't mean a goat needs dewormed.  You want them to be able to carry a small load / fight off a true infestation.  

Typically I'm glad if they find a few worm eggs in the poop, it means they're keeping them in check on their own.  I'd probably take a bigger sample in and have it retested and get an egg count.  

Have you also checked eyelids to see if they are / it is anemic?  

Barberpole typically causes anemia.  
Bankrupt causes poor coat, unthrifty appearance, and sometimes scours.  Producers go 'bankrupt' from slow growing / puny goats that don't do well.

If they truly have a high FEC, I'd use the safeguard at 3x the dose.  Repeat in 3 days.  Then use ivomec in 7 days.  Safeguard for 3 days in a row at 14 days, ivomec again at 21 days.

Have a fecal ran around 28 days to verify it worked / is working.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 13, 2012)

I did not ask for an egg count.(didn't think to ask)  I did see 3 eggs in one view and 2 other eggs in a quick peek. I don't know how many eggs is excessive.  I don't know what is going on with my goats.  They are all anemic (white eye lids)  One truley looks like a skeleton walking around.  She has had a shot of ivermec, antibiotics,vit b, red  cell, wormed with a paste 2 months ago, probiots, and still anemic. And don't forget the dirreaha.  Was treated with corrid which did not help.  I am going to give her a dose of Safeguard and see what happens. I am about to give up on goats all together.  I have spent far more money on them in the 4 years I have had them than I have on my horses I have had for 20 years.   And they are still sick to the point of dying.


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## Roll farms (Jul 13, 2012)

I'd say you got a very 'puny' batch of goats.  I rarely deworm mine.  We cull any who need it often.  Too many breeders aren't trying for "hardy", just pretty.

Mine prefer to impale themselves on hooks and break bones and have major catastrophes, no boring worm issues for them....


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 14, 2012)

Last night when I went to worm my goat guess what I found......BOTTLEJAW!!!!!!!  What is next?


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## CochinBrahmaLover=) (Jul 14, 2012)

treeclimber233 said:
			
		

> Last night when I went to worm my goat guess what I found......BOTTLEJAW!!!!!!!  What is next?


Honestly, if your having this many problems, if your willing too sell out your herd and get a hardy herd from a breeder you KNOW is breeding for hardy. Just mentioning thats what I would do.


The bottlejaw could be a syptom of the eggs you found in the fecal, makes sense if you ask me. Im still a bit of a novice tho in my mind, so dont base off your actions solely on my info  Im still trying to keep my own goats from dying! LOL! (but mine would be much more apt. to do what Roll Farms goats do  Cause, they like to make stuff as hard as possible, that and eating chicken food..... grr)


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## babsbag (Jul 14, 2012)

I would worm them again. If what you used didn't work then either up the dosage or try a different wormer. Some areas have worms that are resistant to a particular wormer. I have been told to worm them again after 10 days and to use 3 times the dosage on the bottle.

Hopefully you can find a vet that will to the fecals and I would get a egg count after each worming, that is the only way you will know what drugs are working.

Good luck with them. I am lucky, I live in a dry area and my goats are on dry pasture and seldom do I have to worm. I also have a friend that does the fecals for me. I am pretty spoiled.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 16, 2012)

update on my doe:  Bottlejaw gone.  Still squirting dirreaha everywhere.  Wormed her 3 days in a row with safeguard for tapeworms.  Grabbed a syringe and gave a large dose of BANAMINE by mistake.  Thought it was the probotics.  Lesson learned --Don't medicate in a hurry.  Be DAMMED sure what you are grabbing.  Hopefully I will not kill my doe by dosing with the wrong stuff.


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## autumnprairie (Jul 16, 2012)




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## babsbag (Jul 16, 2012)

If the fecal on her shows no worms and no cocci then I would try adjusting her feed. Maybe no grain for a while, or more alfalfa. I had one that always pooped dog logs and adding more fiber to her diet would help. Sugar Beet pulp is a good source a fiber I think, at least it helped out my girl.

Not trying to scare  you  but if you still can't find a reason or control it you might think about testing her for Johne's. Not very common in goats, and scours isn't usually a symptom in goats, but it wouldn't hurt to rule it out, but I would think worms or diet first. 

My vet tells me not to look for zebras when you hear hoof beats, and she is probably right.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 17, 2012)

Fecal showed Barber pole or bankrupt eggs.  They look very similar.  No cocci.  She is being fed beet pulp, grain, all the hay and grass she wants.    I asked about Johns and the vet said that is not the problem.   Only one other goat (Flower) had any dirreaha and she cleared up with only one treatment of corrid.  None of the babies has had any problems with dirreaha.  After worming everyone with Ivermec paste after the sick doe (lucky) got an injection of Ivermec their eyes are starting to get pink again.  Except for Flower.  I may worm her again with Ivermec. Any one have any other ideas as to what is going on here.


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## autumnprairie (Jul 17, 2012)

treeclimber233 said:
			
		

> Fecal showed Barber pole or bankrupt eggs.  They look very similar.  No cocci.  She is being fed beet pulp, grain, all the hay and grass she wants.    I asked about Johns and the vet said that is not the problem.   Only one other goat (Flower) had any dirreaha and she cleared up with only one treatment of corrid.  None of the babies has had any problems with dirreaha.  After worming everyone with Ivermec paste after the sick doe (lucky) got an injection of Ivermec their eyes are starting to get pink again.  Except for Flower.  I may worm her again with Ivermec. Any one have any other ideas as to what is going on here.


worm her with something else not the same wormer they may be resistant to it. I rotate my wormers


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## daisyjack (Jul 17, 2012)

Ivermec works better giving orally


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jul 17, 2012)

*I rotate between Valbazen and Ivomec Plus. 


Sounds like your wormer isn't working, you should double check your dosages and try a different one too.


Hope your goats get better!!! *


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 18, 2012)

you may want to consider copper bolusing her with copasure.  We have been really happy with the results of using copper oxide rods and are not having much problems with anemia in our herd with minimal worming. 

It is 1 gram of copper oxide rods per 22 lbs of body weight.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jul 18, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> you may want to consider copper bolusing her with copasure.  We have been really happy with the results of using copper oxide rods and are not having much problems with anemia in our herd with minimal worming.
> 
> It is 1 gram of copper oxide rods per 22 lbs of body weight.


*Yes we did that too and have been very happy with the results!!!*


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 18, 2012)

where can I get the copper?


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## ragdollcatlady (Jul 18, 2012)

I bought mine from  Jeffers online. When I gave mine copper the results were pretty fast too. Coats smoothed out and darkened up.


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## ksalvagno (Jul 18, 2012)

http://www.scbt.com/ah_goat.html

Here is a new place that is selling stuff specifically for goats. I have not priced things though. They do offer copper boluses specifically for goat weight.


When did you get these goats? How many do you have? Were they put in a pen that previously held other animals? What exactly are you feeding and how much? What kind of goats are they and how much do they weigh?


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 18, 2012)

valleyvet.com
Jefferlivestock.com
 both carry it. It is about $40.00 for the container of 25 capsuls, then you need to open up the capsuls and meature it out. I was just eyeballing it and using half the rods in the capsul per adult boer goat. 

We tried putting the other half of the rods in another Gel cap, also purchased from Jefferslivestock, but we have started just putting it in a 6cc syringe with some mollasses, with the typ cut off of the 6cc syringe and putting it way back in their mouth  like a drench. 

We put a couple cc's of mollasses in the syringe, then add the copper oxide rods and then top it off with more mollasses. 

We cut end of syringe off up to the point wher it widens out the most.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 18, 2012)

Ksavagno

lI have tried to send info on all my goats but the computer will only let me type a certain amount of info and then just deletes it so I am going to do one goat at a time.

I have 7 goats--3 does and 4 babies under three months of age. The babies are not sick except for white eyelids and they have been wormed with IVermectin about a week ago.  They seem to  be pinking up a little.   Babies are eating fine and have clean butts.

Doe #1   Emma is a pygmy/ nigerian cross about 4-5 years old.  I have had her about 3 years and she has never been sick.  Wormed occcasionally but never needed a vet.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 18, 2012)

ksalvegno

#2 doe   Flower is a 3 year old Mini Mancha.  She had a touch of dirreaha which responded immediately to Corrid.  She still has white eyelids. She was wormed about a week ago with Ivermectinn and needs it again I guess.  I am guessing she weighs 50-60#.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 18, 2012)

ksalvagno

#3 doe  Lucky is a 4 year old purebred Nubian.  I bought her off craislist from someone in southeastern Virginia.I have no idea how much she weighs.  The vet told me she should weigh at least 50# more than she does.  She is nothing but skin and bones.  Extremely thin.  Today her dirreaha seems to be a bit better.  It looks more like a cow pie now instead of just brown water.

They are all mostly in an area that previously had horses on it.  They do have access to an area under my rabbit and chicken pens  that are hung from the ceiling rafters.  There is a small bit of rabbit and chicken pellets that they can pick up but not much.  They go under the cages to reach grass on the other side of my barn.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 18, 2012)

ksalvagno

They are fed free choice hay I buy from Southern States, dairy goat grain, beet pulp, some rabbit pellets for alfalfa (which I stopped when she started with dirreaha), clover and a little grass.  The last vet that was here said the pasture looked good to him.  Since Lucky has been sick she has had a variety of shots, red cell, probiots (sp), wormers, corrid drench.  Except copper bolus.  Need to find that.

Emma and Flower I have owned for 3 years.  Lucky I bought last November.  She has gone downhill ever since she had her baby in March.  At first I thought it was because Southern States started buy a different hay and Luckydid not like it and was not eating it.  When she started nursing and continued to lose weight I thought it was because she was being milked.  Then I realized she was not producing near the amount of milk she should be and was continueing to lose weight.  At that point I checked eyelids and everyone was fine. I jsut tried to increase the grain and realized she simply was not eating.  That is when I called the vet and got online for help.  The shots got her eating and then she got dirreaha which has not cleared up yet.  The first vet I called told me to put them on Corrid for dirreaha but since none of them had dirreaha I did not do it then.  Later when Flower got dirreaha I started Corrid immediately.  She cleared up the next day.  I kept putting Corrid in the water for 5 days.  On day 3 Lucky got dirreaha.  I doubled the dose of Corrid with no results on Lucky.  I Started drenching her  because their 5 days were up. She was getting 1 teaspoon of Corrid powder in the drench with no response.  Then I overdosed her with Banamine which it seems she had no ill effect.


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## ksalvagno (Jul 18, 2012)

So it sounds to me like Lucky was probably already full of parasites when you got her and was able to hide anything until after she gave birth. 

Honestly, Corid is not the best choice for coccidia treatment. DiMethox 40% would be better. You give 1cc per 5 lbs the first day and then 1cc per 10 lbs the next 4 for a total of 5 days in a row.  I have heard that even Sulmet is better than Corid but I have no idea on dosage since I have never used it.

How have you given the Safeguard? Do you have paste or liquid? I like the liquid better because you can dose it better. The liquid should be given at 1cc per 10 lbs for 3 days in a row and then given again for 3 days in a row 2 weeks later (for bad case of worms). 

Ivomec needs to be given orally for the problems you are having. Most people dose it at 1cc per 20 lbs and then repeat in 10 days to 2 weeks.

The Copasure can help with Barberpole along with needing the copper. The copper wire particles kills barberpole on contact for up to 18 hours after swallowing. I would order some.

So the list of items I would suggest ordering would be:  Copasure, DiMethox 40%, Valbazen

Other things to try to help her:  add a tablespoon or two of extra virgin olive oil or flaxseed oil onto her feed (nutrient dense oils), sprout some grains such as wheat or oats or barley or millet (the sprouted grains offer more available nutrients). You would need to introduce these slowly as you would with any other food change.

I would continue with the daily Probios and continue with the B Complex on some sort of regular basis. I would also suggest a good fecal done before giving her anymore dewormers.

Good luck with her.


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## babsbag (Jul 18, 2012)

treeclimber233 said:
			
		

> I asked about Johns and the vet said that is not the problem.


Not saying that your vet is wrong,or that Johne's is the problem, and I agree that it is rare in goats. But what I really want to know is how your vet knows that without a blood test. I am a "show me" kind of person and I would not take the word of a vet or anyone else when it comes to something that can only be determined by a lab.  I would certainly want to rule it out if the problem continues.

Just my .02


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 18, 2012)

I have given the Safeguard by paste.  She got a shot of Ivermec in the beginning of all this.  She got a dose of Quest right after she had her baby.  With 3 different wormers in 3months shouldn't that have knlocked them down to a tolorable leverl? I need to get more because it was suggested to continue the wormers in different rotations for a while longer.  Need to go back in posts and write down the suggested wormers and times.  And cocci did not show in the fecal that was done so I don't think that is what is causing the dirreaha


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## elevan (Jul 18, 2012)

treeclimber233 said:
			
		

> I have given the Safeguard by paste.  She got a shot of Ivermec in the beginning of all this.  She got a dose of Quest right after she had her baby.  With 3 different wormers in 3months shouldn't that have knlocked them down to a tolorable leverl? I need to get more because it was suggested to continue the wormers in different rotations for a while longer.  Need to go back in posts and write down the suggested wormers and times.  And cocci did not show in the fecal that was done so I don't think that is what is causing the dirreaha


Whether the dewormers would have knocked out the worms depends on some factors
1)  The dosage used - it can certainly be too low and not work
2)  The type of dewormer - were the worms resistant to it?
3)  Timing - You mention "over a 3 month time period", worms can go from no problem to a problem in just 4-5 days.
4)  The individual goat - some aren't very good at fighting parasites while others are
See the Parasite Management article that is linked in my signature below for more information on the life cycle of worms and dewormer resistance.

On the cocci...Did your vet do the extra float for it?  It doesn't show up on a standard float, the vet must do a longer "extra" float to look for cocci.  Not all vets do this.


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## ksalvagno (Jul 19, 2012)

Honestly, I think a really good fecal is in order. Have your vet send it off to the state lab if your state does it. If not, I think Ohio will accept it from your vet. It is not cheap but at this point, it will be money worth spent. You really really really need to know exactly which worms you are dealing with. It could be that once you get Lucky cleared up, she will be fine. It doesn't help that this is one of the worst years for parasites.

Also, once you find out which worms you have, ask here for dosage and number of days to do it just to verify you are getting correct dosages and timeframes.


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