# feeding a VERY thin cow with calf



## aladatrot (Mar 2, 2011)

We have been buying Roping stock lately for a contracting venture. One of the places we went to had a longhorn cow with calf at her side that was so painfully thin I told my husband I really wanted her. We got her and the calf for money wise what I would expect to pay for the calf alone, so I can't lose on the deal.

However, the purpose for me bringing the pair home was to try to save the cow. She has bottle jaw, and I know that can be a sign of jonnes disease, but I just have a feeling this is parasite induced. I have dewormed her with valbazen as of yesterday, and plan to give her a b complex shot today. I was thinking she may have liver flukes, but the valbazen will help knock down other possible parasites too. 

I have skinny cow and calf sectioned off and standing to good quality Bermuda hay and some good quality alfalfa. I am trying to be sparing with the alfalfa right now. I have been giving her corn, but only enough at a time to fill a rubber dog bowl. I hope to soon wean her onto a corn-roasted soybean meal but it is 17% protein and 5% fat. What are yall's thoughts on how I should proceed with bringing old gal up to weight. 

BTW, I can post pics, but it may be best not to. She is so thin it is disturbing to me, and I am used to seeing people's skinny old corrientes. You know it has to be bad. Calf is eating hay and corn. She is a good weight, but cow is not producing milk. 

Ideas?

Cheers
M


----------



## jhm47 (Mar 2, 2011)

Approximately how many pounds of corn are in the aforementioned rubber dog bowl?  She should be able to take a quarter of a % of her estimated weight safely, and I'd get her up to 1% in 10 days to two weeks or so.  

I'd also have her tested for Johnes.  If she's as thin as you say, she should be shedding a lot of bacterium.  And if she turns up with a positive test, you should get rid of her and the calf immediately, so they don't infest any other animals on your farm.  The calf is almost always infected if the dam is, and the calf likely won't begin to shed the virus for up to two years, but will still be infected.


----------



## WildRoseBeef (Mar 2, 2011)

You're not feeding a horse, which is a bit more sensitive to a high protein diet than cows are. However, you are at a good start by starting with a little protein and mostly roughage, but you need to increase the ration day by day by a pound or two per day so that when you finish the increase, you will be giving her 1% of her body weight of concentrate feed per day.  Don't leave off nor limit the alfalfa (especially if it's good quality and not all stemmy material), as it is a good source of calcium and protein for her.

You need a feed, though, that is much higher in energy than protein.  Energy (in the form of TDN or Total Digestible Nutrients) is what will get her to gain weight; protein only puts on muscle, not fat.  I suggest feeds like rolled oats, rolled barley, or wheat germ, beets, etc.  You also need to increase the amount of calcium, phosphorus (and of course protein, which you are good at now) so she can produce milk.  Keep giving her hay as free choice, but increase the feed ration until you're feeding her 1% of her BW per day.  Don't go higher than this ration.

You should also feed her loose mineral, depending on what minerals are lacking in the feed. 

Check out the following links for more information on feeding cattle:
http://beefmagazine.com/nutrition/2010FeedTable.pdf
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-1921/E-974web.pdf
http://www1.foragebeef.ca/$foragebeef/frgebeef.nsf/all/ccf21
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/faq7955
http://beef.unl.edu/learning/feedAnalysis.shtml
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2014/ANSI-3017.pdf
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-1924/ANSI-3010web.pdf
http://www.uaex.edu/Other_Areas/publications/PDF/MP391.pdf

And a workbook that will help you understand feeding and feed analysis better:
http://www.msue.msu.edu/objects/content_revision/download.cfm/revision_id.269171/workspace_id.-30/

Good luck with her!


----------



## jhm47 (Mar 2, 2011)

I don't know the weight of the cow, but if she's 750 - 800 lbs, 25 lbs of grain will be waaaaaay too much for her.  I would never give her more than 2% of her body weight.  I only give finishing steers 3% of their body weight for the last 45 - 60 days on feed.


----------



## WildRoseBeef (Mar 2, 2011)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> I don't know the weight of the cow, but if she's 750 - 800 lbs, 25 lbs of grain will be waaaaaay too much for her.  I would never give her more than 2% of her body weight.  I only give finishing steers 3% of their body weight for the last 45 - 60 days on feed.


Yeah I figured.  You posted before me there so now I'll have to revamp my previous post. 

Edit: done.  Thanks for noticing my errors.


----------



## aladatrot (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks for the ideas and info. This cow is actually a longhorn corriente cross on a pretty small frame. She was once Roping stock that they kicked out and bred. If she weighs 400 lbs right now I would be surprised. She should pound out at about 700 at her absolute fattest and most filled out. She is very very poor right now, I doubt I am conveying that to the fullest extent. 

On the corn, the dog bowl holds I would guess two and a half or three lbs of corn. I am filling it for her and the calf about three times a day. They are sharing, and the cow isn't content to sit there and munch on the corn until it is gone. She takes some bites and walks away to munch hay or lie down and chew her cud.

What do yall think of the cornmeal - soybean meal blend that is 17% protein and 5% fat? It is my understanding that corn is king for total digestable nutrient and that most other feeds' tdn is compared to corn. I have not yet gotten to read the articles in the links, so perhaps my answer on the cornmeal and soybean will lie there. I will read those articles as soon as I get an hour or so to myself.

Again, I really appreciate the help. I may have to post or pm pics to get a good estimated weight on her for her concentrate ration.
Cheers
M


----------



## Beekissed (Mar 2, 2011)

I had a skinny Jersey cow that responded well to sweet feed with raw eggs, Shaklee's soap as a dewormer and a UP/ACV, raw honey and garlic tonic.  Got sleek and filled out quickly, even after calving and nursing her calf. 

This was a pic of when I got her.....about 15 days before she calved:







And this is a pic taken about a month after I got her, approx. 15 days after calving.  






She continued to progress well and became quite sleek after a few months of good grass and slowly tapered off sweet feed/raw eggs. 
I finally sold her and her calf for $500 more than I paid for her a few months later.


----------



## aladatrot (Mar 3, 2011)

I am trying to upload photos of my project cow from photobucket and it tells me that I can't upload any photos due to spamming. How does it think I'm a spammer? I thought this was an offshoot of Backyard Chickens, and I have been a member in good standing there for years. 

Cheers
M


----------



## jodief100 (Mar 3, 2011)

You have to post 10 times before you can upload photos.  There was trouble with spammers awhile back so the rule was imposed.  

It doesn't think you are a spammer, it is just a precaution because of spammers.

That is wonderful of you trying to help this poor cow.  Those people who let her get that bad should be prosecuted!  They are the reason good producers have to deal with overreaching legislation, because of the bad eggs.


----------



## aladatrot (Mar 3, 2011)

The other cattle on the place were all in great shape - even the other nursing cows. They were all standing to good fertilized grass hay. I know she wasn't intentionally starved, I just really can't put my finger on exactly how she got this way when most of the other cattle she was pastured with looked like show cattle. I guess it could have been a three fold problem - missed a worming, nursing a calf, and shedding teeth. I believe that cows shed their teeth in their three year old year?

I don't know, but I do know that I didn't think she would have survived much longer in the place she was at even with the good hay. I am well set up for intensive feeding with small pens close to my barns. It is easy for me to keep tabs on her condition, and I have multiple types of feed, good fertilized bermuda hay, and high quality alfalfa on hand at all times. Today I even let the poor girl out onto my lawn in front of the barn to graze. I have some winter rye in the barnyard and I haven't felt like mowing all winter. Some of it is pretty tall, and she thought it was a scrumptious snack.

Cheers
M


----------



## aladatrot (Mar 3, 2011)

On a good note, I only need to post five more times before yall can see pics!
Cheers
M


----------



## jhm47 (Mar 3, 2011)

This sounds more and more like Johnes to me.  The fact that the other cattle were in good condition, and your cow is in the shape she's in is evidence that she might be infected.  Cows that are infected have good appetites, look perky, and have diarrhia.  They just cannot gain weight.  The reason is that the Paratuberculosis bacterium have colonized in the intestines of the cow, and the intestinal wall has thickened so much that the nutrients can't be absorbed by the animal.  This bacterium is very long lived, and can live in the soil up to two years.


----------

