# Oak leaf toxicity



## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 27, 2009)

We live on 14 acres of mixed deciduous woodland and are thinning (but not completely clearing) areas of the property to keep goats.  The majority of the trees here are oak (at least 3 different species, don't ask me which  ) and I've read again and again that oak leaves are toxic.  

Does anyone else keep their goats in this type of environment and if so what are your management practices to prevent toxicity?  

Even if there are no oaks inside the paddocks they will still be close enough to shed their leaves within reach of the goats.  And before anyone suggests just clearing out all the oaks, I'm looking for alternatives to this obvious option.  We enjoy living in the woods!


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## mavrick (Dec 27, 2009)

I have oaks in my goat pasture and they eat the leaves all the time , I have heard the opposite about oak leaves ,actually folks have told me that oak bark and leaves mixed with water and set for awhile to mix is good for upset tummies and will take some kinds of toxins away from goats


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## mavrick (Dec 27, 2009)

I have heard of acorns being bad for goats, but its never hurt any of mine they eat them all time


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 27, 2009)

Found a research paper on the subject if anyone is interested:

ABSTRACT:
The blood metabolic profile was examined in 2-3 year old non-lactating and non-pregnant Mamber goats consuming Quercus calliprinos (oak), Pistacia lentiscus (pistacia) and Cerafonia siliqua (carob) leaves to determine whether intake of tannin-rich fodder induces subclinical systemic toxicity. Total phenolic and condensed tannin content ranked in the order pistacia > oak > carob. Goats did not exhibit toxic effects following consumption of IO-23 g kg- day- of tannin-rich leaves. Metabolite blood concentrations did not differ from goats fed wheat straw, and were within the normal range. Certain serum metabolic indices that are known to be sensitive indicators of damage to the liver (gamma glutamyltranspeptidase, alkaline phosphatase, cholesterol) and kidneys (urea, uric acid, minerals) were within the normal range for goats. Thus, it appears that goats used in this study were well adapted to the nutritional environment and may consume large amounts of tannins (1.1-2.7 g per kg BW per day condensed tannins and 0.4-0.9 g kg-  BW day- soluble phenolics) without suffering any ill effects.

LINK TO COMPLETE TEXT:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/publicationslist.org/data/silanikove/ref-74/tannin.tox.SRR95.pdf


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## DonnaBelle (Dec 27, 2009)

I bought two Nubians in August from a breeder whose whole property was covered with oaks.  He said his goats ate oak leaves a lot. 

Our property also has oak trees.  My goats have been eating the oak leaves here since August.  No problems yet.

DonnaBelle


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## freemotion (Dec 27, 2009)

Oaks, pine, and cherry trees are toxic.  So are red maples and black walnuts.  That is what I have in my pasture in large amounts, and my goats do just fine.  As long as they are not starving to death and presented with these leaves as their only food, they will choose to eat them only in small amounts.

That being said, I had one small pygmy-x get a bit under the weather one year when one of the very mature red oaks in the middle of my pasture had a bumper crop of acorns and she gorged on them.  Red oaks have more tannins than white oaks.  The other goats didn't have a problem.  The solution is simple enough, I just keep her in a smaller area in bumper crop years until the local squirrel population gets them all gathered up and buried.

I had another issue with my first goat that I rescued and kept as a companion for my horse.  I was having some land cleared for pasture and there was some wild laurel out there.  In early spring, the cut-back laurel was the first thing to sprout and it did so quite luxuriently, and was the only green thing out there.  We think that this sweet but fragile rescue goat may have eaten it and it caused her death....according to the vet.  It is particulary toxic during the growth phase.

We cleared it from our fenced land and I patrol for it several times a year, along with yew, which is abundant here as a foundation planting and the birds spread the seeds.  It is very poisonous.

www.fiascofarm.com has a nice list of toxic plants, with the list having two columns, showing that some people list a plant as ok and others list it as toxic.  Many plants that show up on a list of toxic plants need to be consumed in very large amounts to cause a problem, so know your plants, and don't panic.

Oh, I also have lilacs in my pasture.  They are listed as toxic, and I've noticed that my goats don't touch them at all.

Confused yet?    Me, too.


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## mavrick (Dec 27, 2009)

You need to talk to a vet or get some other source for your information, wild cherry leaves wilted is toxic. oak are far from being toxic, and pine needles are highly recommended for their high content of vitamin C


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## freemotion (Dec 27, 2009)

I was being facetious.....I found all those trees on toxic plant lists and I don't worry about them in the least.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 29, 2009)

Nearly every toxic plant list I've found (and I consulted many) listed Oak as toxic.  Anecdotal evidence (and the research paper I posted) seem to suggest that the tannins are tolerated by most goats with no adverse health effects.  This is good news for us!  Thanks folks.


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## Goatzilla (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't think my goats got the memo about the oak leaves being toxic. If they did, they probably ate it before they read it. I live in a dense oak forest, and my goats eat bushels of oak leaves, with no ill effects. They also eat acorns like crazy. I assume that the goats build a tolerence to the leaves after a while. I would think that if you fed a bushel of oak leaves to a goat that had never eaten one before, that you might run into trouble.

A funny sidenote, my son actually had to go to school earlier this fall and tell his teachers that his goats ate his homework. He walked into the barnyard on his way home from school and set his folder on the ground to help me unload some grain from the truck. When he was done, he went to pick up his folder and one of the goats had just a corner of the last sheet of his assignments hanging out of the corner of her mouth. He took a picture of her with his camera on his phone to bring in to school as "proof".


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## mavrick (Dec 29, 2009)

IM thinking some one read some where that the leaves on all fruit baring tree are poisonous, like the cherry, peach,apple so on and some folks assume it also applies to nut trees also pecan,hickory,oak,pine which is not true, also the leaves on a cherry, peach ect is not toxic when green or dried they're only toxic when wilted,


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 30, 2009)

Tannins really can be toxic; apparently it just depends on the amount consumed and who is doing the consuming.  Tannic acid toxicosis involves necrotic damage to the liver and kidneys with high mortality.  It seems, however, that this is not a problem with goats (or deer) because the protein in their saliva binds the tannin, making tannin-rich forage safe to eat.

I did some sleuthing.


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## ThornyRidge (Dec 30, 2009)

typically stoned fruit (cherry/peach/etc) trees are of concern when they come into an "unnatural wilt"  i.e. blown down in storm  or cut down and left.. these wilted leaves are what would be toxic.. with that being said my property is covered with wild cherry trees and black walnut trees.. these are like weeds here in NE Ohio.. anyway I have never had any issues at all.. I do monitor my pasture areas and clean up anything of suspicion.. as far as pine goes.. well that is like candy.. in addition to the vitamins it is good roughage and also known as a natural wormer.. not to mention it gives goats good breath!!!  mine love white pine and spruce varieties.. I even snap branches off and throw in pens for a treat.. ornamental type shrubs such as yew are highly toxic!!  they resemble pine family are very short needled are usually a shrub type plant.  As far as oak trees go I would watch for wilted leaves and try to keep acorns cleaned up.. I have never heard of toxicity but definately munching on a bunch of fallen acorns can upset a rumen and that is often considered rumen toxicity or poisoning.. and as someone previously mentioned as long as your goats are healthy and fed well they will not intentionally gorge themselves on poisonous plants.. that typically happens when they are starving.. oh and the red maple is again an unnatural wilt of the leaves.. and seems to only affect horses primarily.. I have many of them around and my goats do fine with the maples too..


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## dhansen (Jan 1, 2010)

My goats LIVE in our walnut orchard which also has several oak trees in it.  They eat acorns, black walnut shoots and everything.  I have nigerian dwarves and nubians and none seem to have any issues with any of it.  There is plenty of grass and brush to eat, but they love the acorns the best.  They also love to climb in the trees to get the yummy leaves.


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## smwon (May 21, 2010)

Mature oaks leaves are not toxic. New leaves can be and so can fresh acorns. But once the leaves and acorns are dry, the tannins are rendered harmless. How do I know? I had a sick goat and the vet thought it was the oak I was feeding her. But she had no sign of tannin poisoning, he was just guessing. It turned out she had Pneumonia. So I did a very through research into feeding goats oak. What I said above is what I learned. I cut and carry mature oak leaves to my goats every single year and they think it is candy! They rather like the dead, brown ones to some extent as well. Oak also acts like a dewormer and wormy goat really like oak leaves!

Many older goat books recommend feeding goats oak leaves and even recommend harvesting, drying, and feeding it to them in the winter!


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## cmjust0 (May 21, 2010)

Hi Linda.  

(I sure hope I didn't just make myself look silly misidentifying someone...lol)

ETA:

I've been doing some reading recently on the *benefits* of tannins in regard to internal parasite control..  Sericea Lespedeza is apparently pretty high in tannins, and goats have lower parasite loads on average when they're grazing green lespedeza....I found that very interesting.


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## smwon (May 21, 2010)

Hi CM! Nope you didn't make yourself look silly, tis me! I was wondering if you were the 'cm' I knew...


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## cmjust0 (May 21, 2010)

Unfortunately, yes....I'm still me.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 22, 2010)

I had posted this thread before I brought the goats home while I was still researching.  (Well, I guess I'm still researching, but here the goats are!  )  

Just wanted to update that since everything has leafed out we've been letting the herd free-range while we're doing yard work and they have been eating tons of FREE oak leaves without ill effect and they just love them.  I, of course, love to see them eat free food while doing some of the yard maintenance for me.  

Less money, less work.  It's the best...


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## jas (Aug 4, 2010)

I'm glad I found this thread. My goats pen is surrounded by red oaks. I was getting kind of worried about fall time with the acorn harvest.


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