# Raising bucks



## NH homesteader (Jan 14, 2017)

Well, with kidding season coming, and some of us awaiting the arrival of future herd sires, I thought it might be an appropriate time for this.

I've heard horror stories about bucks. I was going to purchase a buckling once and the man was horrified that I would allow my child to be anywhere near a buck (as if I was planning on sending her in the buck pen alone right....) I have also met amazingly friendly ones.

Genetics aside, what are some tips for handling bucklings to help them be friendlier and more respectful of humans?


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 14, 2017)

we have only a year of experience in dealing with a buck(s) so we are learning as we go.  Our older buck was 2.5 years old when we got him and wasn't use to day to day handling like our set up has so it has taken him a bit to get use to this.  He isn't mean and is pretty mellow(except when does are in heat-then he loses his mind ) but we have had to work with him on respecting our space when we are in his area.  He gives my DH more space then he gives me and my DD- for the most part DD only goes into his area when myself or DH are not around to do chores.  Given that he pees on himself, he isn't the nicest to pet but we do(or at least I do).  We retained 1 buckling from our 2016 kids and he has been handled from little on so he just goes with the flow-unless the does are in heat then he gets somewhat obnoxious- we have to watch that he doesn't try and jump up on us.

hopefully others with more experience will have more thoughts on this @Southern by choice, @OneFineAcre , @Goat Whisperer @Ferguson K


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## NH homesteader (Jan 14, 2017)

My first buckling was the sweetest thing in the world but I didn't do anything special, I just hung out with him a lot and he just was like that. I had to wether him anyway. I just thought there might be others who had questions too so it would be a good topic to have a discussion on. And I'm getting two bucklings this year so I would like to have two friendly (and not over-friendly lol) bucks!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 14, 2017)

I yield to @Goat Whisperer on this one  because she has taught manners to some young bucklings we have purchased that were not corrected and they learned HOW to be gentlemen.
I do want to say genetics does play a role BUT much of the time things can still be curbed. 
One of our bucks and all his offspring are the gentlest goats ever.  We have had people that had HORRIBLE experiences with bucks, even dangerous experiences that swore they'd never have a buck again end up getting a buck out of our boy and now they are hooked! They have several bucks now.
One of our bucklings came to us and was sweet as could be but his sire was a freaking nightmare- not mean just wild during rut- jumping fences and crazy. This buckling does change during rut but no craziness, no fence jumping, no mounting us or anything unacceptable- he just isn't a babylove.

We have had a horrible experience with a buck and it was dangerous. We did not raise him though.

I can say- 
never allow them to blubber on you
do not allow them to mark you- rubbing head over and over on you
do not allow pawing at you

GW can give much more on the "how to"


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## Ferguson K (Jan 14, 2017)

^^^^^^^^

This. 

Rubbing,  head butting, pawing,  and a few other things (i.e. climbing on you)  are definite no no's.

Just remember there is a difference in wild and mean


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## NH homesteader (Jan 14, 2017)

So, what do you do if they try those things?

I had a doe that would do that, rub her head on you constantly. It was kind of obnoxious. She jumped on people too, which I didn't love because of my daughter being at hoof level. Actually she pawed at people too. She was supposedly "super friendly" but I always felt like she had bad manners! 

We have some sort of friends that have the sweetest bucks. We were in with their boer and he was so sweet and gentle. This is what I want! Haha


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## Southern by choice (Jan 14, 2017)

Does are different. Usually a doe that likes to give you their hoof is like a dog giving you their paw. When a buck does it that is usually more of a "courting" gesture.
Does rubbing their head on you is similar. You can correct them with stepping back and a sharp no while you push them away.
Bucks are marking you when they do this.
All of our sweet bucks will come beside us and when we scratch their face they will snuggle but it is sideways and not head on  where their scent glands are. 
We have a buck we are working with now.. he is a bit of a pain. Maybe we can get some pics.


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## NH homesteader (Jan 14, 2017)

Well I have one who gives me her paw, it's cute. This one more like mauled you with it lol! 

Yes I do not want to be courted. Thanks! Pics are always good!


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 14, 2017)

I can say none of my bucks are mean
Rachel goes in the pen with them 8 right now with no worries
Rocky blubbers at me some time
Big Btown jumps on me sometime and rubs some
I tell them to stop but I don't put much effort into it
Moonshine is pretty friendly and Valiant is too
They like to be rubbed
Zeus and Bam Bam aren't very friendly they don't like you to touch them but if you get a hold of them they are nice
The two little guys Jupiter and Forchiny are sweet 

Never really gave it much thought though
We dam raise our kids and bucklings are usually naturally more friendly than the doelings


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## TAH (Jan 14, 2017)

I LOVE training all my animals even my buck so I took his bad behavior and turned into a good one. 

My buck knows who he can be ruff on and who he can't. Me and my brother play, tag, hide-and-seek, and head butting with him all the time. He has been taught when I say touch it means no more playing. He is very much a love big and can be trusted with my four-year old brother alone, he even lets the kids ride him. 

I love my buck . 
He truly is a wonderful animal!


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## NH homesteader (Jan 14, 2017)

This guy I was going to buy from was telling me they're incredibly dangerous and I should reconsider getting a buck with a young child... Uh huh... He has Nigerians btw. And I didn't buy one because coincidentally the one he had left was related to one of my does. He was weird though so no regrets there.

I think, like Ferguson K said, there is a difference between wild and mean. And maybe people are confusing the two when they panic!


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 14, 2017)

I agree with what the others have said.
Will the buck be a bottle baby? None of our BB's have had any issues with being aggressive or overly obnoxious.

Raising bucks is relatively easy; common sense is your friend and thankfully it seems everyone here has some 

As mentioned above, no head rubbing, blubbering, pawing, the whole bit.
The people who have "bad" bucks over and over are generally not handling them the way they should.

You need to be the boss buck. They should step back when you push them back. They shouldn't be overly crowding you when you walk in the pen- of course when you have a bucket of grain they will crowd you then- but other than that they need to be respectful. Coming up for a rub or petting is fine, I avoid the top of the head because of the scent glands, they might get over enthusiastic and try to rub that stink on you 

The first rut is really when I really enforce these rules… some poor lil' bucks go into their first rut and thing their stuff don't stink, it is your job to remind them you are top buck. When you do this when they are young, they will grow up with a respect. If you wait until bad behavior starts and then try to teach them… you have your work cut out for you!

If you have ever watched a herd of bucks, you will notice a "top buck", a buck all the others respect and don't generally spar with or mount (yes bucks mount each other- very often).

I can go into buck pens right after being around does in heat, and not have an issue.

The lamancha buck has recently forgot some of his manners. He has started blubbering and even tried to mount… UM OH HECK NO! As he was jumping up (taller than be at this point- when on his rear legs he's over 6ft tall) I swiftly gave him a good, swift bop on the nose and pushed him down (standing normal now) Hollered at him and kept standing tall over him and started pushing him around- using the side of my leg and pressing my weight (whole 100lbs ROFL) into him- all while yelling at him- whenever he would raise his head up to look me in the eye I would bop him in the nose and continue pushing him back. Once he realized I'm not playin' his game he backs off, I continue to follow him around and keep pushing him back; all while hollering at him.

He is getting much better now 

Now, the reasons why I'm using these methods:

Bucks yell at each other, especially during rut. Younger/lesser bucks will generally respect the "top buck's" yell and step back from the Top buck. So by me yelling at them in a serious tone, this puts a little light on in their head.

Pushing- on needs to be careful with this and know the appropriate time to do this and WHEN to do this. If done in the wrong situation it could make the animal worse. I know my goats and know how to handle particular situations. One needs to have a good understanding of goat behavior and know how to "read" these animals correctly. Some people can, others can't.

With our bucks, it doesn't take much pushing to get the point across.
The pushing is obviously to show them you are "Top buck". Again- if you watch bucks together the boss will turn around and give the lower buck a good whack to whip some respect into the youngsters  Of course, when I push them I'm generally using the side of my leg- this puts and even pressure over a good section of the goat and causes NO harm.

Nose bop- this is a sensitive area on a goat and a quick bop doesn't do any harm. Obviously with this you need to be smart and don't use excessive force.

Sticks, brooms, rakes, etc. can be used- not to hit the goat but to make yourself look bigger. I don't use this often because I want the goat to respect ME, not an object.

Flipping a goat on it's side did teach one of our mini's very quickly.

If a buck is really naughty, I might follow him around to keep him moving to enforce that I won't be challenged.

Thankfully we haven't had many "bad" bucks, but we have had a few that weren't as respectful and these methods work. For an adult aggressive or dangerous buck I would be weary of these methods. Life is to short to have aggressive bucks, I know a lady that was almost killed by a Nubian. Again, these methods posted are more for younger bucks and bucks in their first rut.

All of our boy (except for the one I'm working with) are all well behaved gentlemen with no issues whatsoever. They do love to be pet and rubbed by us but they aren't allowed to do it back.

But, you obviously, as you know, should never leave a young child alone or unattended with a buck. You are a mom so I know you already know that 

Playing games with bucks, no matter how well trained you think it is, is not advisable. It might be fine for some time, but it can go very bad. They are still livestock and need to be treated as such.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 14, 2017)

^ typed on a phone so excuse the typos or words that don't make sense.


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## babsbag (Jan 14, 2017)

I have 5 bucks right now and I have had others. None of mine have been mean and the bottle raised one is the most obnoxious. He wants to court me. The others keep their distance most of the time which is a pain when you want to catch them and great when you need to work in their pen. Had a friend tell me that she would prefer that her bucks not be too friendly so she doesn't raise bottle bucks.

My Boer buck could have been dangerous to the unaware but not because he was a mean buck. If he didn't want to be caught he would run toward you, not in attack mode or head down, but just in your general direction and then he would veer off at the last moment, like playing chicken. Once I got my hands on him he was fine. 

My girlfriends 5 year old daughter had a Boer buck chase her into their horse trailer and he did pummel her pretty good. I don't remember how she got away but he was trying to kill her, no doubt.  She is 14 years old and still won't go near a buck.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 14, 2017)

@babsbag I'm curious as to how your friend raises her bucks. We have many bottle raised bucks and they are ALL respectful. 
Of course it could be that it is kinda ingrained since birth. All the BB bucks I've sent off have been great too. 

A few months ago I sent off one of my adult BB ND bucks to and elderly friend. She had a ND buck before and she couldn't handle him, he was insane. Partly might be due to genetics in this situation. Anyway, she has one of my boys now and she is in love. He is respectful and isn't an absolute bulldozer when she goes to move him. He is just a calm natured buck. It makes me so happy, she really went through it with her last buck.


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## babsbag (Jan 14, 2017)

I have owned 2 bottle baby bucks, 1 LM and 1 Alpine, and while they are friendly and easy to catch they were both a little too friendly for my liking. I don't go in the pens very often so neither of them were worked with as young bucks.It is mostly when they are in rut that they become obnoxious knuckleheads. 

The Boer that attacked my friend's daughter was not bottle raised. My other friend won't bottle raise her bucks, she handles them as little as possible...they are Boers. I guess she doesn't want 300 lb of friendly. My big Boer that would run and face danger (me) was from her. 

I personally like my mini Alpine that I co-raised with his dam. He likes me, but doesn't love me.


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## NH homesteader (Jan 14, 2017)

Thanks GW, good advice! Nope both bucks will be dam raised. Which is fine by me, my does are all dam raised (by people who handle their goats a lot) and perfectly friendly.

I am a trained (people) behaviorist so I am always evaluating what I am teaching or reinforcing. So your perspective on buck behavior is really helpful. And no, I won't be playing with my bucks! I don't teach behaviors I wouldn't want my animals to do with my daughter or a new owner, etc.

I hope I never forcefully teach a buck I'm in charge but glad to know how. Also glad I stick with little goats!


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