# Huge lump on calf's jaw. Got some infection out or is it.....



## Farmerboy (Jan 20, 2012)

Hi all, my first post here, so please bear with me.

We have 2 bull holstein calves. November was born on Tuesday before Thanksgiving, and Pancake was born on the first Sunday of December. Both are from a dairy farm where I work, and my dad wanted to raise some steers, so we got those calves when they were a few days old.

The calves were living in my chicken coop, before we got the cow shed built. I have let them out of the 8x8 pen into the 20x60 coop to run around. A few weeks ago, before I moved the calves to the cow shed, I saw that Pancake had a egg size lump on his left jaw. It had felt solid and firm. I had told my boss about the lump, and he had said the he had a few calves that had it before, and sometimes it goes away, and he does not know what causes it.
Today, I was just watching the calves, and noticed that the bottom of the double-yolker egg size lump on Pancake's jaw was red, so I went in the shed to take a close look at it. I saw a white bubble in the middle of the bloody spot, and pressed lightly around the bubble, and right away, it shot a stream of pale yellow-green pudding like stuff out allover our puppy's head and the wall. I had gloves on and pressed harder around the opening, and got a large pile of stuff on my hand. Wiped the stuff off, and continue getting more out, this time the stuff was a bit bloody. 
What is the stuff and what had caused it? What should I do for him in the morning?

I tried posting pictures on here, but I am not able to.

Thanks for any help, and please let me know if I need to give more details.

Daron


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## redtailgal (Jan 21, 2012)

SOunds like an abcess to me.  It's not really uncommon.  A large piece of hay poked his gum, or he bit a stick or.......well, you get the idea.  I've seen and dealt with it a number of times.  Young mouths are very tender, and young minds are very curious, lol.

If your new to cattle, might be a good idea to talk with a vet.  

With it already draining, your in good shape.

here is what works for me:

I keep them drained out by pulling that wound open daily and squirting a little betadine in the wound to clean it.  I don't keep them shut up, so I make sure that it stays clean.  Keep in mind when cleaning a wound that a little blood is a good thing.  Blood is the bodies way of cleaning a wound.  You will see the different stages of "ooze", the thick yucky pus, following by a dark bloody pus, then a nice red blood or watery blood.  You want to get it to the red blood or watery blood.  Your not looking for ALOT of blood, just clean blood.  Dont be afraid to ket in the hole and clean it good.

I always try (but am not always successful) to see the inside of the mouth.  I check for wounds, cracked or loose teeth and deformities.

I check the temperature of the calf.  If there is no temp, and the calf is eating well, acting well etc, I dont medicate and just watch thing carefully.

At the first sign of fever, going off feed, or "off" behavior, I start them on some penicillan and either live culture yogurt or probios to help keep the gut balanced.

You may get a few different approaches to this, choose what works best for you, and ask for more help if you need it.

Oh and you need 10 (I think its 10 anyway) posts before you can post pics, so go say hi and meet a few people, then come back and post a pic of your calves. We like puppy pics too, but more-so when they dont have pus on their head.


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## kelsey2017 (Jan 21, 2012)

I can't think of anything to add except if you have any flies where ever you are, keep them off.   I have used ichthammol on abscesses but that is still with daily draining/ cleaning. Ichthammol is strong smelling and would be enough to keep flies off or maybe SWAT.


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## Farmerboy (Jan 21, 2012)

Morning, and thanks for the advice and welcome.

So, if the issue was cause by being poked in the month, then I have a general idea how he got the infection in the first place. When I let the calves loose in the coop, they like to poke their nose into everything, and lick them. I have tools, screws, and nails in one corner of the coop, for I was working in the coop and the cow shed. Well, they are not in the coop anymore, so I do not have to worry about them getting hurt again.


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## Farmerboy (Jan 21, 2012)

Oh, I am from west Michigan.  All the flies are out cold right now, so they are not bothering the calves.


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## jhm47 (Jan 21, 2012)

It's lumpjaw, and quite common.  Caused by something poking into their cheek or gum.  The awns (beards) from wheat or barley straw often cause this.  If you can keep it drained well (I often open up the lump with a razor blade or utility knife to allow easier access to the pus), and squirt either iodine or betadyne into it for several days, you will cure it.  I would be extremely careful to not allow your calves access to nails, screws, or other small metal objects.  They will swallow some, and get a nasty disease called "hardware".  This is often fatal if not caught in time.  The nails puncture the walls of the digestive system, migrate to other vital organs, and kill the animal.  Hope your calf heals up quickly!


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## Farmerboy (Jan 21, 2012)

I got a small amount out this morning with a pop, and the lump is still there, and it feels hard. Should I feel inside his mouth? I tried it when I first saw the lump, but he chew my fingers a bit and they hurt.


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## redtailgal (Jan 21, 2012)

First, get the nails and hardware out of there!  A curious calf can get into some SERIOUS trouble with that.

IF you have someone to help you, you can take two dishrags and use them to hold the mouth open, using one to pull up on the top jaw and the other to pull down on the bottom.  I dont know that I would do all that just yet though.

A lump is normal even after you get all the pus out.  Sometimes, with a nasty abcess, the soft tissue around the area gets swollen and hard.  It may go down, but it is possible that he will have a permanant lump there.  You can help it some with hot compresses.  Cold wont do much good that this point, as you need added blood flow to the lump to carry away infection and extra body fluid.

Prevent swelling with cold, treat with heat.

JHM is right, take some thing sharp like a razor blade (wash it in HOT water and rinse in betadine) and make a hole large enough to stick your finger in.  Get a syring and SQUIRT the betadine into the hole when you clean the wound.


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## Cricket (Jan 21, 2012)

I'm a big fan of Ichthamal.


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## Farmerboy (Jan 23, 2012)

Update on the bull calf- 
The swelling is down to the size of a small egg, and got a bit more infection out, this time more bloody, which is good, right? I had told my boss about getting infection out of the calf, he said very good, and told me to squirt Hydrogen Peroxide Solution into the wound. I did two times, one this morning, and one at noon. How often should I squirt Hydrogen Peroxide Solution into the wound?
He seems perky, and is eating well, and is alert of his surroundings. He is also grooming himself with no trouble.

*redtailgal*- The calves do not have access to the coop anymore. They are confined in the 12x20 cowshed. 


I will post pictures as soon I get up to 10 posts.


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## redtailgal (Jan 23, 2012)

Yes, getting the pus out and seeing more blood is a good thing.

I cant answer your question on the hydrogen peroxide.  I don't use it for wound care because I think it does little to prevent or help infection, and I think it actually hinders the healing process.  I use betadine and I do it twice a day.

Maybe some other peroxide users will be along to help you with the usage.

Glad to hear that he is doing better,  good job taking care of him!


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## Farmerboy (Jan 23, 2012)

So, at this point just leave it alone?


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## redtailgal (Jan 23, 2012)

No!  Sorry, I didnt mean to imply that you should leave it alone!  It's been a long day here, lol, and I wasnt clear with my wording.    Sorry!

Definately keep draining and cleaning it.  I'm sure peroxide is better than nothing, but with me never using it, I cant say how often to use it.  I'd guess twice a day.


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## Farmerboy (Jan 23, 2012)

Ok, got 10 posts. Yay 

No offence redtailgal. I will keep it cleaned out. Thanks.

Here are the picture of the calves. Most of the pictures were taken yesterday and from my cell phone.

*Warning Picture overload *

Cow shed. The chicken coop is on the left. 






Pancake, the one with the lump.

















Pictures of the calves in the shed, just to give you an idea of their living arrangements. 













This was taken in the chicken coop about a month or so ago-





























Me with November, when he was a few weeks old.





Last but not the least, our 6 months old puppy-


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## redtailgal (Jan 23, 2012)

Thanks for the pics.  The pup is cute, and so is Pancake, but I like November!  What a cutie!

As for the lump, yeah, that looks like the kind of abcess I thought it would look like.  Keep cleaning it, make sure the hole is large and open and keep squeezing the yuck out.  Dont be afriad to get a little rough with that lump, give it a good squeeze if he will let you. I really think that it may help to take a razor blade and enlarge the hole.  You can also put a hot washcloth on it before you drain and clean it to help get more of the yuck out.  If you dont see marked improvement within a week, you should consider an antibiotic.

Love your barn!


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## Farmerboy (Jan 23, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> Thanks for the pics.  The pup is cute, and so is Pancake, but I like November!  What a cutie!
> 
> As for the lump, yeah, that looks like the kind of abcess I thought it would look like.  Keep cleaning it, make sure the hole is large and open and keep squeezing the yuck out.  Dont be afriad to get a little rough with that lump, give it a good squeeze if he will let you. I really think that it may help to take a razor blade and enlarge the hole.  You can also put a hot washcloth on it before you drain and clean it to help get more of the yuck out.  If you dont see marked improvement within a week, you should consider an antibiotic.
> 
> Love your barn!


Ok, will do.

Thanks, I built the chicken coop and the cow shed from the materials in the backyard. Every one of each piece, basically no money was spent.  My dad was a builder, and would always buy stuff on bargain and put them in the backyard. But as years pass, the housing market fell, and so my dad built a store to keep providing for the family of 11.


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## redtailgal (Jan 23, 2012)

Hey, thats cool.

Good for you and your dad


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## greybeard (Jan 23, 2012)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> It's lumpjaw, and quite common.  Caused by something poking into their cheek or gum.  The awns (beards) from wheat or barley straw often cause this.  If you can keep it drained well (I often open up the lump with a razor blade or utility knife to allow easier access to the pus), and squirt either iodine or betadyne into it for several days, you will cure it.  I would be extremely careful to not allow your calves access to nails, screws, or other small metal objects.  They will swallow some, and get a nasty disease called "hardware".  This is often fatal if not caught in time.  The nails puncture the walls of the digestive system, migrate to other vital organs, and kill the animal.  Hope your calf heals up quickly!


jhm--It's been a long time since I heard anyone mention hardware disease. It used to be pretty common and so much so, that it was taught in high school ag class. People are often aware, that a hog will eat just about anything, but cattle are just as apt to swallow anything that has a taste that is new or different and rusty objects certainly have a unique taste. 

Farmerboy--Here's a link to lumpy jaw, it's symptoms and treatment, tho you've already been well advised on what to do. On the left of that page, are hyperlinks to most other cattle diseases and ailments as well.

http://cattletoday.info/lumpy_jaw.htm


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## Cricket (Jan 24, 2012)

Great barn and REALLY cute critters!  I think the current rec. is that if you are going to use peroxide, it should be diluted 50% with water.  As long as the wound isn't healing over before the infection is gone, I'd go with RTG on the betadine and clean it out twice a day.  I'd still use the Icthamal around the draining hole, but not on top of it, just 'cause you don't want to seal it over.
Looks like you are doing a great job with it!


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## Royd Wood (Jan 24, 2012)

Hey Farmerboy  and looks like your sorting out the prob - calves look in good condition


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Jan 24, 2012)

Farmerboy and may I say nice job on the structures and with your critters.  Keep up the good work with being a good steward of the animals and property that you have.  Looks like a nice farm you are starting.  I look forward to hearing about and seeing new pictures as your farm grows!


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## Farmerboy (Jan 24, 2012)

Thanks for the welcome. 

I showed my mom this thread, and when I told her about using betadine for the calf, she said that we have it. So, I will use betadine on the calf today, after I get more infection out if there is any. Thanks for all the advice! I am liking this site a lot more!


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## Farmerboy (Jan 24, 2012)

I got more infection out this morning, but in very small amount. I squirted betadine inside the wound 2 times today.

Here is the picture of the wound-






I think that he is acting better today. We will see on Saturday on how he is improving, before giving him antibiotics if he needs it.


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## redtailgal (Jan 24, 2012)

The bright red is a good thing.  Dead or dying tissue would be darker and dry looking. (I know you didnt ask about that but I was glad to see shiny red)

Keep working on that wound, your doing great. 

If you end up getting some antibiotics, make sure that you get very clear instructions on how to inject it.  Have someone show you how to aspirate for a blood flash, if possible.


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## Farmerboy (Jan 27, 2012)

Yesterday morning, I got a very small amount of infection out, did squirted betadine inside the wound. Today, 2 times, no infection came out, squirted betadine inside the wound both times. It keeps scabbing over, and I had to peel it off before trying to get infection out. At this point the lump is small as a bantie egg, still firm. What should I do at this point?


I had finished the fencing for the calves today, and got the fencing hooked up to the new charger. Let the calves out for the first time, but the fencing had some bad connection, so the calves went willy nilly through the barb wires.  My siblings had to chase the calves back several times, then we pinpointed where the weak spots are, then got that fixed. Then let the calves out again, then ZZAAPP!! ZZAAPP!! They respect the fence!! :bun


Here is today's picture of the calves enjoying the new pen. 

Before the let out-





After the let out-





Enjoying the grass on the ''hill'' with puppy on top.









November










Pancake






The creek in the woods at the bottom of the ravine. Its part of the calve's pasture, but they will not access it until spring. It will be their waterhole.


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## redtailgal (Jan 28, 2012)

I like the waterhole, lol, and they will surely enjoy it this spring.  Be prepared for a muddy mess!

As for that knot, keep pulling the scab off and squirting that betadine twice a day.  The lump may or may not go away.  Give it a good feel twice a day, if it starts feeling soft, or hot, then check for more pus.  Rub it pretty good, rough it up a little to encourage some extra bloodflow to the wound.

Your doing a good job with these calves.  Are they to be pets or food?


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## Beekissed (Jan 28, 2012)

Eventually you will want to leave that scab on and just check for softness, additional swelling, redness or heat at the abscess site.  That hard knot may never leave or may just reside slowly on it's own.


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## redtailgal (Jan 28, 2012)

Beekissed it right, you will want to leave the scab on eventually.  Good point Beekissed.

Once the wound has healed so that its not a hole.  When you can see the bottom without having to pull it open...when the "soft" swelling is gone.  The point in pulling the scab off is to force it to heal from the inside out, so that the outside doesnt close up, trapping in bacteria and causing another infection.

Your doing a wonderful job, trust your gut on when to stop removing the scab!


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## Royd Wood (Jan 28, 2012)

New pics are good and oh how I would love a stream of water like that through our place. Our creek dries up soon after spring but I have a pumped well for our animals water supply.
Are you planning to band or pinch the calves nuts and do the horns


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## Farmerboy (Jan 28, 2012)

Ok, I will do what you two suggested. 

Got tiny amount of infection out this morning, but it hurts Pancake, that he just about flip himself over. Sigh, its not easy. But it got to be done. :/ 


Royd Wood-

The creek dries up in mid-summer if we do not get enough rain, sometime it does not dry up at all in the summer. Just will have to keep an eye on it when it has not rain in 2 weeks.

We will have the bulls banded in the fall or sooner. I have already de-horned them with de-horning paste. It works great. 

redtailgal-
One will be for the freezer, and the other will be sold to help cover the cost of raising them when they are 23 months old. It will be sad for me, as I am already bonding with them, exp November.  I had saved his life when he was being born breech, my very first time to witness a calf being born. You can read more on here- http://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/newestpost/601194

Today's picture with fresh snow-


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## redtailgal (Jan 28, 2012)

Goodness, they have grown since that thread, lol.

You are a younger fellow arent you?

I have a lot of respect for young men who work with cattle and CARE like you have shown that you care.  You are doing a wonderful job and I hope that you keep this pleasant and compassionate attitude that you have now.

I have bottle raised a few calves in my lifetime and it is very hard when its time for them to leave, be it to the market or to the freezer.  The last one I had was just as hard as the first one, but in a while, it becomes a matter of perspective.  Think of it this way, if you didnt have some form of attachment to these calves you wouldn't take nearly as good of care of them.

You are doing a wonderful job with them. After they are gone, you will feel bad, but eventually you will start to feel gratified and somewhat proud of the meat that you helped put on the table.


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## Cricket (Jan 29, 2012)

I try to plan on getting my new calves a little before we butcher our 'old' calves.  Then you get all involved with your new, needy, babies and it's easier to let the others go.  Plus, by the time they are almost 2 years, they are usually on the obnoxious side!  Just try to distance yourself emotionally from them a few months before butchering time.  (My friends who don't raise animals call this my 'raising pets for meat plan').  Good luck!


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Jan 30, 2012)

Love, love, love all your pictures!  You are doing a great job and what a wonderful life your steers will have.  As others have said, it will be hard to let them go.  But you will know that they had a awesome life while they were in your care.  

I too whish I had a nice creek like that!  

Keep the pics coming as they grow.  Please .


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Jan 30, 2012)

I just read your post on the birth on backyard chickens.  What an incredible opportunity for you!  No wonder you have an extra special bond with November.  You have experienced something that most never will.  Congratulations for your quick, level headed thinking and care.


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## Farmerboy (Feb 3, 2012)

*redtailgal*- Thank you. Yes, I am one of those younger fellows, turned 23 last fall. 

*Stubbornhillfarm, Cricket*- Thanks.  We are planning to find a young cow/heifer to be a family cow for family use, like- Milk, and calves for beef. We want a dual propose breed like a Milking Shorthorn or Brown Swiss. I am still looking for one in our area, but 90 percent of the cattle in the area are Holstein. :/  

Update on Pancake-

A few days ago, I had peeled the scab off the lump, and there was no hole, it had looked like it had healed. So I just poured betadine on it instead squirting in it.
Today, I felt the lump, and rubbed it and tried squeezing it, nothing came out, so at the point, I will leave it alone for a few days. He is acting very healthy, and likes to run in the pen with November. The lump is barely noticeable, unless you are standing close to him. 






*I am the king of the Hill!!!!!!!!*




*N0!! I AM!!!!!!!*


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## redtailgal (Feb 3, 2012)

Good work with him!

23, I remember those days, live it up while you can, lol.


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## Farmerboy (May 1, 2012)

Update on Pancake's jaw-

He is doing great, there is no lump on his jaw! He is 5 months old now.


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## redtailgal (May 1, 2012)

My how he has grown!

Looks great!


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## Stubbornhillfarm (May 2, 2012)

Your herd looks great!


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