# Where does the Lionhead stand with the ARBA?



## Ms. Research (Jan 16, 2012)

If you read my journal, you will see that I'm CRAZY about lionheads.  Always was.  Didn't get them first, because DH and I never really had rabbits.  So glad we did it this way though.  Learned so much from my boys.  

Anyway, reading about showing rabbits, it seems the Lionhead breed is having a hard time getting into the door of the ARBA.  I read that they tried and failed in 2008.  

Where does this breed stand?    I know that the Double mane is being ignored and that single mane is what is trying to get inducted as a Standard Showing breed.  

But where do the single mane stand now?  I truly think both Single and Double are impressive, and be perfectly honest, should be judged differently.  But that's just me, because I LOVE the double mane.  

So any Lionhead showers out there, would love to here if you are getting any closer to getting this Unique bunny recognized?

I plan on attending the Feb ARBA show in Philadelphia and could ask there, but just curious is all.  

Thanks,

K


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## TherapyBunnies (Jan 16, 2012)

From what I understand, Lionheads are in the process of being approved as a breed by the ARBA. They are expected to be approved as a breed within the next few years. Theresa Muller has the current COD. Her 2nd attempt to present failed in 2011. She will present again in 2012.


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## 2seth2 (Jan 19, 2012)

ya but it has been a long time since they started


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## ibreedlionheads (Jan 21, 2012)

They have been trying to have a successful showing at National Convention for a long time.

A lot of the breeders I talk to have had judges come up to them and say that they've come so far in perfecting type on most of their rabbits (a lot of breeders have perfected their herd's type, for the most part), but the wool is a tricky part. The proposed standard talks about no flank wool, but it's almost impossible to have a double-maned rabbit with no flank wool, and it's even harder to get that animal with a full mane but minimal to no flank wool. And it's a lot easier to work with double-maned, because breeding single-single gets some no-maned individuals.

I've actually heard talk of the COD holder changing the proposed standard so it allows flank wool.


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## wolftracks (Jan 23, 2012)

Yeah always seem to not liuke my favorite parts in the standards. I like the flank wool. Maybe it's because I love Wascal so much.

I heard that some of the colors were no longer being used in the COD in order to perfect 3 colors?? Did I hear wrong? I hope so because I'd like to see more of them in the breed.


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## CYGChickies (Jan 23, 2012)

wolftracks said:
			
		

> Yeah always seem to not liuke my favorite parts in the standards. I like the flank wool. Maybe it's because I love Wascal so much.
> 
> I heard that some of the colors were no longer being used in the COD in order to perfect 3 colors?? Did I hear wrong? I hope so because I'd like to see more of them in the breed.


I'm getting the feeling that 75% of current pedigreed Lionheads will be rendered unshowable right off the bat. If flank hair is a no then most of my does are gonna be no-goes. How come a few people get to say what a perfect rabbit is even if it will render a large percentage outside of standard? It should be put to a vote or something. Throw us a bone ARBA just a teeny one!

CYG


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## ibreedlionheads (Jan 24, 2012)

wolftracks said:
			
		

> Yeah always seem to not liuke my favorite parts in the standards. I like the flank wool. Maybe it's because I love Wascal so much.
> 
> I heard that some of the colors were no longer being used in the COD in order to perfect 3 colors?? Did I hear wrong? I hope so because I'd like to see more of them in the breed.


They are only working on the three, to focus all of their energy and effort. Once they get those colors accepted, though, the breed at large will be accepted, and they can work on the rest of the colors.

I don't mind the flank wool, but I understand why the standard calls for none: The breed's name, Lionhead, would make you think "mane". They're working to _just_ mane around the head. But because of the genetics, this is next to impossible.


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## ibreedlionheads (Jan 24, 2012)

CYGChickies said:
			
		

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That's why they changed the COD to allow 2" of flank wool. If you really want to put your opinion in there, talk to a breeder with a COD, or get a COD yourself.


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## Bunnylady (Jan 24, 2012)

Unfortunately, every new breed (particularly wildly popular ones) have to deal with these sorts of growing pains. Even in long established breeds, the breed standards committee and the ARBA standards committee can have a hard time coming to a meeting of minds (don't get me started on the ongoing troubles with the Harlequins!) 

While a lot of breeders (and not just of Lionheads) love a litter than is like a chocolate sampler box, the fact is that there are a lot of colors that need certain things in the background to come out well. Breeding colors together willy-nilly often results in animals that aren't good representatives of their particular color. Working on both color and type at the same time can be tough, since getting it all right in one rabbit almost never happens. By focusing on just a few (hopefully compatible) colors, the breeders can then turn their attention to type - the thing that really sets most breeds apart from others. Having the "serious" breeders working with those same few colors gives the COD holder the best chance of being able to bring in new animals as needed, without suffering major setbacks in the name of genetic diversity. Once the breed is accepted, other colors can be added (granted, it's a major hassle to introduce new colors one at a time). 

As to 75% of the pedigreed rabbits falling outside the standard - well, that already happens to lots of breeds. "Marked" breeds like Dutch, Harlequin, and English Spot frequently  throw litters where not a single bunny is showable. Any breed that uses the dwarfing gene is guaranteed to produce large numbers of rabbits that are unshowable based on size alone, even before the matter of color comes in. 

While I don't breed Lionheads I have to say, I think a double-maned Lionhead is just about the cutest thing ever. It would be a crying shame to lose that look, if that is what is needed  to produce showable animals. On the other hand, a Lionhead with so much flank wool that it looks like a poorly-bred Jersey Wooly kinda misses the point, doesn't it? 

Unfortunately, the ARBA standards committee is more concerned with creating an easily understood standard for easily identifiable breeds of rabbit, rather than with what is genetically feasible or even likely. Good luck, guys - I know it's no fun feeling like your favorite breed is being dissed.


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## CYGChickies (Jan 24, 2012)

ibreedlionheads said:
			
		

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The wink makes this comment feel condescending but I'm sure that wasn't your intention. My single opinion will always be that, a single opinion. I didn't know I needed a COD to bellyache in a lighthearted manner. I'm sorry I overstepped my place in the world of show rabbits, everyone! 

CYG


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## TherapyBunnies (Jan 25, 2012)

CYG - Don't worry about expressing an opinion as long as it is with respect. We all have opinions & they are just that. I agree the flank wool adds to the look. I also agree some lionheads almost look like Jersey Woolies or Angoras. 

To all interested. Here is a link to an informational page regarding the breed & its progress toward acceptance by the ARBA
www.lionhead.us/aboutlionheads/standards.htm


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## ibreedlionheads (Jan 25, 2012)

CYGChickies said:
			
		

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Oh, I'm sorry. I put the wink there to make it sound less condescending and mean... I'm really sorry.

And it was more of a joke... not a true statement. So once again, I am sorry.


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## 2seth2 (Jan 26, 2012)

The problem is with such a long time period the arba standard and breeder standard has become different and every changing. if they even get them passed the there will be a COD EXPLOSION every lion head breeder will thry to get there color recognised and in a decade they will have tons of colors if they ever get passed. They should apply with the english standard then it would only take 2 passes to get accepted


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