# Am I right about the condition of my goats? HELP! see post #8



## mama24 (Jan 17, 2012)

I think Shizune, my little Nubian/Boer/Kiko mix, is really chubby. But she's so darn cute and steals food every chance she gets, so I'm not sure what to do about that. I'm not going to worry about it for now and hope she loses the "baby fat" before we decide to breed her. My other goat, Tsunade, should be pregnant, due in March. I think she looks pretty good, maybe a little on the thin side? Should I be feeding her more grain/alfalfa pellets? She is Saanen/Boer. I'm planning on milking after she kids, so I don't want her to get too thin, but I also don't want her to gain so much weight she has trouble kidding. Right now they are mainly eating hay and whatever oak leaves they find around or off the branches dh has been throwing in. I also give them a handful of sweet feed and sometimes a handful or 2 of alfalfa pellets as treats, not every day, but most days. Tsunade is friendlier and I give her more, Shizune often gets none. She doesn't really need it! But she will lick the leftovers off the ground! LOL. They were on only hay when we got them about a month ago, so I've been going easy on it. Here are some pics. Thanks for the help!


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## ksalvagno (Jan 17, 2012)

Your pregnant girl does need to put on more weight. She isn't bad but I like them a bit on the heavier side because they lose so much when milking.

The other girl might be a bit conditioned but not bad. You don't want her to gain any more weight though.

Both are very cute. Good luck with them.


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## mama24 (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks! Now I need to figure out how to get more into her without getting it into the other! LOL


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 18, 2012)

what breed is the pregnant doe bred to? 

I am not a big fan of trying to put condition on an animal while they are pregnant,  The other doe looks fine to me. I wouls say she is good weight for her frame and breed type. 

Yes, the one that is pregnant could stand to have a little more weight on her. But saanens can be thin and if she is only 50% boer, she may not gain weight real easily. 

I would say if she is breed to a dairy cross then I wouldn't worry so much about the kids getting too big, but if she is bred to a full-blood boer, then you may wish to consider the kids getting too big, if you are giving her a lot of feed. 

You said she is due in March, so she is 2 1/2 to 3 1/2  months into her pregnancy. You are getting to the point that the kids will utilize a lot of the calories in the feed, and you will just make the kids bigger and bigger. But I do think you could feed her more than just a handful, Maybe 2 cups of grain and 1 or 2 cups of alfalfa pellets a day.  The other doe could have around 1 cup a day.   

I am sure someone else will chime in on amouints for a saanen  during pregnancy.  I don't read were too many people are going over 1 1b of grain a day during the gestation. Then they go up after kidding to 2 or 3 lbs a day or more depending if she is milking alot or just nursing her kids.


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## mama24 (Jan 18, 2012)

The big white one is the pregnant one. She is half Saanen, half Boer, but I think she looks more like a Saanen than a Boer, am I right? She was bred to a Kiko, who also looked like a Saanen to me. He was tall, but not BIG like the Boer buck was. 

Thanks so much for your thoughts. I thought she looked a little on the thin side, but pretty good considering she looks more like her Saanen mom than her Boer dad. I'll try to get more into her without the little chubby girl getting it! I have been giving her on average more than just a handful a day, especially of the alfalfa pellets. I have been putting a scoop of that into their feed trough about every 2 days, but the little Nubian is a piggy and eats way faster than the Saanen. I'll try mixing up about 2 cups each into the feed scoop and see if I can hand feed her. The Nubian isn't as friendly and if I keep moving around while feeding Tsunade, she'll probably stay away.


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## ksalvagno (Jan 18, 2012)

If you can feed her separately, that would help. I feed any goats that need condition by themselves. Leave them by themselves until they eat their feed or are obviously done.

I feed grain throughout the pregnancy and don't have problems with oversized kids. My goats are Nigerians and one Alpine/Nubian cross.


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## mama24 (Jan 18, 2012)

I got Tsunade to eat by herself. The little one, Shizune, tried to eat, too, but T butted her away. I mixed about 2 cups each of the feed and alfalfa pellets and she ate it all but a small handful. I offered Shizune about a cup (I have big hands, so a handful for me is actually about a cup.) She carefully picked out all the alfalfa pellets and left the feed. Then when the alfalfa was gone, she ate a little of the feed and left the rest. I put their leftovers in their feed trough, they can eat it or leave it, I'll do this again tomorrow.


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## mama24 (Jan 30, 2012)

She is refusing to eat now. I've been trying to encourage her to eat more by putting a nice big scoop of alfalfa pellets--was her favorite!-- in their trough with about 3-4 cups of sweet feed, which is what I had on hand b/c it was what they were getting at their previous home, when they got feed. She makes a point of coming over to sniff at the feed, then walks away to the hay feeder and stares at me while she eats her hay! I'm starting to get worried about her b/c while I thought she was a little on the thin side, but ok, when I took the above pics, she is definitely too thin now! And I also suspect she has at least 2 babies, maybe more, in there b/c she isn't due to kid until March at the earliest and her right side is twice the size of the left now! Her hips are VERY prominent. Looking at the above pics again, she wasn't as thin as she looked in the pic taken from above THEN, but is actually that thin NOW, but her right side is like 3 times the size it was then, way bigger than the left now. She was a twin, and several of the goats had triplets or even quads at the place where I got her from. How likely is it she's carrying multiples her first time? Are goats like other animals where it isn't as likely with the first pregnancy? She does love the goat treats. I give them each a small amount (maybe1 Tbs or 2 each) every morning to keep them occupied while I'm feeding the rabbits. She'd eat the whole bag of rabbit pellets if she could get into them longer than a few seconds when I forget to close the gate while I'm feeding. 

Should I just stop worrying since she is obviously very healthy and not interested in food, even though she looks thin? Or is there some other type of feed I could buy that would be better and more tempting for her? Doctor it up with something to make her like it more? The feeds are pretty limited at the 2 feed stores in my area. We have Southern States and Tractor Supply. Southern States carries a couple different goat feeds in their own store brand, but TSC only had meat goat feed the last time I was there. I was also told by the farmer I bought them from that goat feed isn't necessary or even ideal as long as I was giving them minerals. Any whole grains? I am interested in mixing my own feeds as soon as I can find a place that sells bulk grains! Mainly b/c I want organic, and I can't see how processed pellets could possibly be healthier than whole grains, maybe rolled oats?


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## redtailgal (Jan 30, 2012)

Hey..........I am too new to goats to give you a solid answer but I am wondering if she is wormy.  Have you had a fecal done on her lately?

also, go back to your first post and edit it to include HELP in your title line.  

I think you need to be concerned.


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## mama24 (Jan 30, 2012)

Definitely not wormy! Thanks for the idea, though. 

Just to clarify, she IS eating tons of hay. They're going through the hay twice as fast as they did when we first got them in December, probably due to her pregnancy, I assume. She just isn't interested at all in any supplemental feed I offer anymore. I have also offered some beet pellets after reading where several people swore it helped their goats they had trouble getting weight on. She liked them at first, no longer interested, whether I soak them or not.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 30, 2012)

I would for sure consider parasites as the main problem. Sounds like a fecal test is in order and if that is impossible I would worm her. 

As far as how likely it is for them to carry multiples the first time versus a single. Very likely.  A first timer does have more of a chance of having a single, but goats often have twins and sometimes triplets,ect....... 

out of 4 yearlings(15 months old) that kidded for the first time this past summer, I  had One single, 2 sets of twins and 1 set of triplets. 

Even if she is carrying triplets or quads, she should still have an appetite and not be loosing weight. 

Also if she isn't that old, say under two years of age, you may also wish to consider coccidiosis as a cause of her weight lose.


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## mama24 (Jan 30, 2012)

What are the signs of coccidia in a goat and how do you treat it? My chickens had a rough time with coccidia less than a month ago, so it is definitely a possibility. I used Corid on the chickens, and they've been fine. She has not had diarrhea at all. She is a yearling.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 30, 2012)

mama24 said:
			
		

> What are the signs of coccidia in a goat and how do you treat it? My chickens had a rough time with coccidia less than a month ago, so it is definitely a possibility. I used Corid on the chickens, and they've been fine. She has not had diarrhea at all. She is a yearling.


First off, goats can't get it from your chickens.  

But a goat can have a coccidiosis bloom just like your chickens can. It can be bad and make them very sick and scour, or it can have very few obvious symptioms, but slowly effect their digestion and cause them to gain poorly or loose weight. 


You can use Corid, Lots of people do. We put it in the drinking water, or you can give it orally to her each day( 5 days).  Corid is a thiamin inhibitor and you may be better off if she is not feeling well to treat her with sulfa-dimethoxine or Albon. Also given 5 days in a row as a drench.


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## currycomb (Jan 30, 2012)

bought a young doe, thin and small. not interested in grain AT ALL! just nibbled on browse. treated with albon for cocci. 3 days later was a pig, first one to the feed trough.  now growing. so........


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## mama24 (Jan 30, 2012)

Well, I was JUST at the feed store, and they're both over 15 mi away, so I'll start with the Corid today and  maybe I'll be able to make it to the store tomorrow. Thanks so much for your help! The other goat I have is younger and HER appetite hasn't been affected! But I guess you are more susceptible to things during pregnancy, so that makes sense.

We've had a very very warm wet winter, and the ground is very wet in the goat pen. This is our first year on this property, and I am thinking about moving everyone to higher ground, even though the existing barn is what we've been using. Big and free is nice, but not if it's situated on wet ground that is making the animals sick!


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