# The famous question - What breed!



## xa.logan (May 13, 2013)

I can't figure out which breed! After days of research, I'm still undecided. Here's my ordeal.. I would like something small but yields high. I really like alpines but I also like Nigerians. Shoot... Even the Nubians have really charmed me. Oh.. And so have the toggs. Aha! And the La Manchas! Maybe I could get a crossbreed of all of them. 

The need:
High heat tolerance(I live in southern New Mexico)
Small in size (I only have an acre backyard)
High milk yield (Obviously mo' milk is mo' betta)

Any ideas or favorites? I've been thinking two Nigerians this whole time but i visited my aunt in Texas not long ago and she has alpines, which I fell in love with. They're a bit bigger but seem to have less heat tolerance.


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## SheepGirl (May 14, 2013)

I don't think you should worry about finding a breed that is heat tolerant. As long as you get something local, the animals (be they pure or cross bred) will already be adapted to your climate.

If you have an acre--are you planning on dry lotting them on it (turning it into a dirt pen), or do you expect them to use it as a pasture? If you want it as a pasture, then having a few small goats would be better because they will make the forage last longer. However if you want to make it into a dirt pen and bring all of their feed to them, then you can have as many goats as you want, having both small and large sized goats.


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## xa.logan (May 14, 2013)

I've been planning on Dry Lotting them. Since there aren't a ton of resources in the desert. Are there any big disadvantages of penning them? Other than the feed cost?


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## Fluffygal (May 14, 2013)

Kilo is a hardy breed started from a mix of dairy breeds. Even though they are used for meat, they can also be used for dairy. This breed really has a bit of everything. There are some breeders on this forum that could provide more input on them.

I have NDs, a Nubian, and a Pygmy. I love my Nubian and NDs the most. The Pygmy is the most oloof brat of the bunch so not much bonding there. Plan on breeding my ND buck to my Nubian doe this year once Fiona goes into her season.


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## babsbag (May 14, 2013)

I have 21 goats on less than an acre. I have 3 different pens for them since I have some bucks and more than a few breeds. I live where is gets to 115 in the summer. Shade and a sprinkler to make damp ground and my goats are ok. The heat can reduce thier milk production.

I have alpines, la mancha, toggs, boers, and alpine/togg cross. 

Here is my intake on the breeds that I own.

Boers are for meat, I have never milked them, many, but not all don't make much milk so not a good choice for a dairy goat, but I understand that their milk is usually pretty good.
Toggs...great milker, but milk may taste "goaty". Not all toggs have this trait, but many do so if you buy one try to get one in milk so you can taste it before buying her. Wish I had done that.
LaMancha...sweet, good natured goat. She is a first freshner this year so I have not milked her. She was bred when I bought her and in my mind too young to breed, she is having a hard time raising twins. Hopefully next year will be better.
Alpines...good milk, good producers. I like them.
Alpine/Togg cross...my favorite. Good milkers, hardy animals, I like the hybrid vigor they bring to my herd.

Many of the Nubians, and Boers, are noisy. They cry A LOT. Drives me crazy and the only reason I haven't added Nubians to my herd.

I don't have any nigis as they don't produce enough milk for my time. I have seen them at goat shows and they seem to be a little more vocal than most of the other breeds as well. I like quiet goats.


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## OneFineAcre (May 14, 2013)

xa.logan said:
			
		

> I've been planning on Dry Lotting them. Since there aren't a ton of resources in the desert. Are there any big disadvantages of penning them? Other than the feed cost?


Actually, there can be some advantages, like low instance of worms.  No grass for the worm larvae to develop and be injested by the goats.

I dry lot, but not in the desert.  In an area wooded with pines.  I have Nigerains and you can keep quite a few Nigerians on an acre dry lot as long as you keep the area cleaned.  I have the advantage of fresh pine straw falling as well.  I've got too many now, but that's anothe story.

I have a little over an acre divided into 4 quadrants, plus a seperate buck pen and a nursery pen.

You will need a good source of hay.  I give freee choice grass hay, usually coastal berumuda.  Don't give much feed except to lactating does.  Also supplement lactating does with alfalfa hay.


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## xa.logan (May 14, 2013)

Do the 21 goats ever seem to get crowded on your acre? I was thinking about buying two and keeping them in a pen but now my options are more open. 

Do you notice it to be quite a chore keeping thing cleaned? I mean.. I know cleaning up is always a hassle but it's never too much to handle. 

Where would be a good place to look if you're trying to find a particular breed. Right now, I've been looking at Craigslist but they're all boers and Nubians.


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## Fluffygal (May 15, 2013)

I bought my registared NDs from a breeder in New Mexico. Just search the net for the breed you are interested in to pull up breeders in your area.There are breeders that are willing to ship out of state if you decide on a breed not available in your area.

I live in Texas and Prairie Wood Farms helped work shipping arrangements to send Abel & Bebe to me
My avatar is Abel at 8 weeks.

Edit to add: Try hoobly.com too for adds.

I think the general amount per acre is 12 mini breed goats or 6 large breed goats. How you setup the space for management of the herd also would play a role in how many along with what your situation allows
Each persons setup will differ based on their circumstances and management style/practices.


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## babsbag (May 15, 2013)

xa.logan said:
			
		

> Do the 21 goats ever seem to get crowded on your acre? I was thinking about buying two and keeping them in a pen but now my options are more open.
> 
> Do you notice it to be quite a chore keeping thing cleaned? I mean.. I know cleaning up is always a hassle but it's never too much to handle.
> 
> Where would be a good place to look if you're trying to find a particular breed. Right now, I've been looking at Craigslist but they're all boers and Nubians.


My goats do fine. The 2 bucks have a pen that is about 30x75 with a lot of oak trees to lounge under, but nothing they can reach or eat anymore.  I have someone come in and clean the sleeping/eating area once year and just spread it out in the field.

I have 10 does and 3 kids on my biggest pasture and that one is about 100x200 and I have the most goats in the smallest pen right now since everyone kidded. I have 6 does and 10 kids in a pen that is about 50x50 and even they aren't overly crowded, but I will move them around as they get older. I want the ones I milk separate so they are easier to catch 

As far as cleaning, it isn't too bad.  The only part of the pens that get really bad is where they eat and that is because the hay that they drop builds up. I also put out a lot of straw in the winter for them to sleep on so that gets deep too. I get my tractor in there 2x a year and haul out those areas. I actually spread it out in the rest of the pasture and the chickens have their way with it. Our soil is garbage so I am hoping that eventually all of the hay/straw/manure that I spread on the ground will allow me to grow some pasture.  In my little pen I have individual kidding pens set up and those get shoveled out and cleaned before each doe kids and then again during the first 2 weeks. After that the does and thier kids get put into the general population.

I don't have a barn to worry about cleaning other than the one I milk in and they are only in there when I milk. The areas that they sleep and eat in are open air with covers and then tarps in the winter to block the wind. 

Here are a couple pictures of my pens, you can see that there is plenty of open space. 










As far as where to find a particular breed I would check for goat clubs or 4H. I have access to any and every breed I would want through a dairy goat club and 4H. 

Watch out, goats are an addiciton. I started with 3 does 5 years ago right now, counting kids I have 31.   (shhh, don't tell DH)


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## Straw Hat Kikos (May 15, 2013)

Kiko goats


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## OneFineAcre (May 15, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> xa.logan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right with you.  Started with 3 does 4 years ago and I'm up to 26 counting kids.  Fortunately, a couple are getting ready to leave Friday.  Going to get serious about selling 4 others too.  Ideally, I'd like to get down to about 15.


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## WannaBeFarmR (May 15, 2013)

Oberhasli were once called swiss alpine, they are so sweet. Look very alpine but most are smaller then alpines (those I have met anyway) and they are noted for being good producers and having sweet tasty milk. And mine are just adorable love bugs.


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## Egg_Newton (May 16, 2013)

What about mini-nubian or mini-lamanchas? Supposed to get 3/4 the milk with 1/2 the feed... That's what I've heard but don't know if that's true.


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## OneFineAcre (May 16, 2013)

Everbody has a tendency to advocate their breed, so let me do the same.  I have Nigerians and I think you should get them too 

Here's a good reason why though.  You have a small location and you will essentially be dry lot.  Nigerians have the best feed conversion ratio.  That means the output of milk/butterfat in relationship to the input of feed.  They are very sweet animals on top of that.

But, like babsbag said, try to establish a relationship with the local 4 H or a breeders organization in your area.  For example, we are members of the North Carolina Dairy Goat Breeders Association.   If you are not set on one particular breed, it may be best to find a great, reputable breeder with healthy animals in your vicinity.  That is the  most important thng, healthy animals.  And, while this forum is helpful, it is much better to have a mentor in your area.


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## rebelINny (May 16, 2013)

You like the Alpines but not the size. You like the size of the nigerian but they don't produce a whole lot of milk. Go for the middle man, a mini-alpine. There is a breeder in Texas. Her website is www.milkmaidranch.com she has great animals and high quality producers so you get both of best worlds. To get a mini-alpine you have a standard alp bred to a nigerian buck. The kids born are mini-alpine. They are smaller than the standard but produce alot more than the nigerian.  Good luck


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## xa.logan (May 16, 2013)

I never thought about mini's. Are the rumors about them true? Half the feed cost but 3/4 of the production? I want to start small, if I get two smaller goats, then I can justify more when the time arrives. Haha


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## OneFineAcre (May 16, 2013)

xa.logan said:
			
		

> I never thought about mini's. Are the rumors about them true? Half the feed cost but 3/4 of the production? I want to start small, if I get two smaller goats, then I can justify more when the time arrives. Haha


If you are looking at efficiency, no goats have a higher feed conversion ratio than Nigerians.  By crossing the standards with Nigerians, you increase the efficiency, but still not as good as the Nigerians themselves.


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## xa.logan (May 16, 2013)

I love efficiency. Thanks for reminding me. 
Do you have any records or ideas about how much milk your Nigerians produce on average?


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## OneFineAcre (May 16, 2013)

Our best milkers give over two quarts per day.  We don't have any who have given less than a quart and 1/4 per day at peak lactation, and they are usually first freshners.

But, I've seen people on here who can't get a cup a day.  

Buy good foundation animals to start your herd.

That's why I always recommend people buy registered animals from good milk lines.  Buy good foundation animals.  You will have to pay more upfront, but it will pay off for you in the long run.


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## xa.logan (Jun 1, 2013)

Alright,

I've been doing a bit more research on this topic and finally found out that ND's milk fat content is 8-10%. The milk is supposedly DELICIOUS and I can imagine that to be true. But I was reading that some people have a bit of trouble drinking it daily (besides the obvious potential for weight gain) and using it for daily purposes (cereal, for example). Would it be wise to think about a hybrid knowing this? Or

A) would it be reasonable to suggest "watering the milk down" (Which sounds disgusting)
B) would having nigerian/pygmy crosses be something worth looking in to?
C) would it be easier to have a nigerian and an alpine (or some other large goat) to keep each other company.

I'm starting with 2 goats, just not sure which two yet. I like the idea of smaller goats, throwing a pygmy into the pedigree sounds like it could make the nigerian a little less bony if I ever resorted to chomping down on one. 

I know most of this is going to be a case of "just try this and see how it works" but I'd like to research as much as possible first.  I guess my questions could best be summarized as: is there a feasible way of reducing the fat content of the Nigerians milk to "more every day drinkable levels"? Would a nigerian/pygmy cross still lead to decent milk production? Would two different breeds have trouble getting along?

Thanks for tracking with me so far! You guys are the best.


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## Tiss (Jun 1, 2013)

I have Lamanchas, a Mini-mancha, and Alpines. The mini-mancha's milk is the best though she's harder to milk because she's shorter with small teats. The Lamancha milk is wonderfully creamy too. Sweet girls. 

My Alpines are sweet girls and good milkers, but their milk tastes like 2% on my cereal. It's good, it's just not the creamy milk I've been used to. I plan to replace them with Lamanchas or mini-manchas.  

My vote is Lamancha or Mini-mancha.


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## goatboy1973 (Oct 27, 2013)

Try Pure Spanish goats. They are a breed of goat that are on the watch list of breeds of goats that are in danger of going extinct. They do really well in the hot dry arid environment of the Southwest. They are very low input goats and tough as nails. They can trace their lineage back to Christopher Columbus and his first exploration of modern day USA.


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## kinder (Nov 13, 2013)

I have been doing some looking into an all purpose goat for my back yard .. after great thought I have found kinder goats fit the need. both dairy and meat. from what I have read they are a great little goat,


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