# ND 3 month old not thriving or gaining



## nanook380 (Jun 11, 2019)

I have an approximately 3 month old nigerian buck (didn't band yet because he's been the sick bubble-boy goat). 

I got 3 recently weaned goats and lost 1 the first night to what appeared to be pneumonia. I treated the rest with biomycin for 5 days... These boys had been dewormed, deloused, toltazuril for coccidia. 

I continued with the deworming schedule and added in fenbendazole and ivermectin and praziquantel. I tried bovi-sera and not much improvement overall. He's had banamine, biomycin, replamin, BoSe at birth, selenium/E paste, and nutridrench too.

One of the boys apparently will not grow. Both boys are eating browse (mainly blackberry leaves, grass), orchard grass, sweetlix meat maker minerals, and loose baking soda. 

His symptoms are overall just weakness, a very tucked down rear end (hunched back) and wobbly rear end. He has very prominent hip bones and spine and eats all day long without gaining an ounce. His "brother" born at the same time is now twice his size, same housing and diet. Temps are typically right at 102, but lately we're having a heat wave and he's got diarrhea (again). Seems two weeks ago he was constipated and I was having to give him enemas daily. 

I'm at my wit's end and I'm fairly certain I'm going to lose him because he just will not gain weight. I have not had a fecal done since all the vets around say they don't do goat fecals and might have to try taking some poo to the vet teaching hospital 2 hours away at this point... He came from a negative CAE/CL/Johne's herd supposedly but he looks like a textbook Johne's goat in their final stages. 

Anything I can do to help him right now other than bloodwork/fecal from a vet? 

Frustrated and hate watching him go downhill. He's such a friendly boy despite all the manhandling and poking and prodding. He begs to be carried and loved on.


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## B&B Happy goats (Jun 11, 2019)

I had a similar experience,  i put him inside  the house in a crate, treated for worms, diareah stopped. He became constipated, ...enemas. ..out came adult worms (had just rescued him and he was 7 weeks old) ....several more enemas, he started pooping, all i fed him was hay and water to get his gut healthy....no goat pellets, and i don't  give any sweetfeed ever..(we use goat pellets )..he got B12,orally, ... first arrival  orally....and red cell, orally...and liquid calcium,  orally........two weeks later he is a thriving little boy.
That is all I have to share with you,  sure wish you lots of luck with the poor guy....
And welcome to BYH from Florida


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 11, 2019)

Sounds like you are on the right track. These guys were in rough shape when you got them. 

You need to get a fecal done.
1- to see what type of parasites he has
2- you need to see the efficacy of the dewormers and cocci meds
There is a lab you can send it to, I will try to find the link. The McMasters is really the best method for getting an actual count. 

He may never reach his full potential. It is going to take a lot of time for his body to heal. From the sounds of it, he was pretty loaded.
It can take time to get everything knocked down. Most dewormers only kill the 4th stage larva, so repeating the treatment is critical. 
Having lice can be just as bad as internal parasites.  
Poor guy, and poor you! Not a great way to start with goats.

Are you giving any feed? How much does her weigh? Can you get any alfalfa/orchard mix hay? Or mix alfalfa in?
Dyne is a really good product for weight gain. Red Cell is the best for goats dealing with anemia/parasites. It has so many other vitamins and minerals it really gives them a good boost.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 11, 2019)

Here is the link. I've heard good things about this lab! You will get an actual count which is good! 
https://www.midamericaagresearch.net/instructions.php

Best of luck with your little guy!


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## nanook380 (Jun 11, 2019)

I just did a toltazuril and fenbendazole dosing today. Plus a banamine injection and b-vitamins orally, plus gave him a bath to make sure he didn't have topical parasites without adding more chemicals. He was pretty poopy yesterday so wanted that off to prevent a fly problem too. His poops today were much more clumpy than runny. He has a hearty appetite and I had him on the front lawn drying off after his bath (was 95 degrees outside, his temp was 101.5) and he was eating dandelions and plantain leaves from the lawn until his rumen was full. He's never gone without hay, and I don't use pelleted grains with wethers around, but I suppose I should try some alfalfa. He wouldn't touch the alfalfa pellets or the manna goat balancer pellets. He did suck down some nutri drench and MSE microbial drench that I mixed with warm electrolyte water. He's peeing fine (pale yellow) and his skin doesn't stay tented up, so I don't think it's dehydration to any extreme. His famacha score is a pale pink, hence the deworming again. I'll keep giving him b-vitamins, microbial drench, and some dyne to keep energy in his system.

I have 3 other yearling wethers from the same breeder who are doing just fine so it's like this years' arrivals are cursed. I'm not raising them any differently, other than the non-stop nearly dying from these ones vs the older boys. And yes, they are kept separately for now. 

I'll have to call around shortly and see if I can get a vet to do the fecal..


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 11, 2019)

I would try to use the lab I posted above. 
If the vets are not familiar with goats the likelihood of them doing an actual eggs per gram (EPG) count is slim. You really want to EPG for the reasons I posted above. 

I prefer Red Cell over just the B vitamins. Red Cell has the B vitamins as well as a lot of other goodies.
It also has iron in it, which is what anemic goats really need. 

Giving him a bath is good, but if he has lice it will not eradicate it. 

I've always given our wethers feed. As long as it is balanced it shouldn't be an issue. Each to their own on that aspect.


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## nanook380 (Jun 12, 2019)

He died overnight sometime. Debating if should send him in for necropsy at the vet hospital or if he's been sitting out too long.


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## B&B Happy goats (Jun 12, 2019)

nanook380 said:


> He died overnight sometime. Debating if should send him in for necropsy at the vet hospital or if he's been sitting out too long.



Aww,..... so sorry, you worked so hard to save the little guy. I hate loosing the battle to save a animal...


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 12, 2019)

I’m so sorry 

I’ll always advocate for a necropsy.


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## nanook380 (Jun 12, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> I’m so sorry
> 
> I’ll always advocate for a necropsy.



Yeah, I was going to but the cost the nearby vet hospital quoted was 3x the cost of the goat... so my husband said he'd rather just buy me 2 more goats than pay for a necropsy on the one... we buried him next to his brother this morning. Also have family visiting and so a dead goat in the fridge with all the food was met with abhorrence. 

I put the one loner youngling with the other older boys so hopefully he doesn't get too bullied but he's very spry and growing well, already almost half their size. They've all had some nose-to-nose contact so quarantine is a moot point at this stage... He was screaming bloody murder for being alone this morning and so I suspected his buddy was dead before I even opened the door. Didn't want him left all alone since goats definitely do not appreciate that. I've got the pen the 2 younger ones were in blocked off to all the goats now until I can give it a good cleaning out. It's nearly 100 degrees today so I will hold off on the deep cleaning until temps drop slightly. 

I'm going to still try to get a herd-fecal to the vet and deworm accordingly since I do suspect it was some sort of parasite overload. He had bad coccidia and lice as a kid that probably led to just stressing his tiny body enough with a damaged intestinal system and was a downward spiral of sickness after that. I think he weighed maybe 10 pounds at 3 months of age...


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