# Horses on Timber



## Wannatryitall (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello,  First, let me start by saying that I am not just running out to buy a horse for Christmas, we bought our property in the country because I've always dreamed of teaching my children how to ride.  I had a lot of experience working with horses when I was younger, but it was at a large stable, with beautiful paddocks, stalls, and arenas.  I have some money socked away for the purchase and vet costs.  I have found a great little horse formerly used for children's riding lessons that I'm very interested in, my only hesitation is my property.

Now, that I've provided a little background, here is what my property is realistically speaking.  Land prices here are insane, we bought a remodeled home on 5.5acres (5 of which are timber).    The timber was overgrown and really, really neglected while the owners remodeled the home.  Therefore, we seriously could not even get through it to see what kind of shape it was in before we purchased it.  Once it became winter and things died back we realized that our hopes of clearing a few trees, putting up a fence, painting and dividing up an old machine shed were the least of our problems.  The land is periodically dispursed with old metal farm equipment, tires, and rolls of fence.  If that wasn't bad enough, the 1/2 acre surrounding the machine shed was likely once used as a machine shop dumping ground as well as a moonshining distilliry.

Fast forward through the year we've been here and we've made one large stall in our machine shed, bought 4 goats who cleared the underbrush in the 1/2 acre surrounding that shed, cleared the trees and most of the junk, planted grass, and put up a 4ft, 4 strand electric fence.  Might not sound like a lot, but you should have seen it.

So, I am anxious at this point, realistically, what kinds of conditions are adequate for a backyard horse?  Next spring, I plan on extending the electric around most of the 5 acres.  That gives us  a fresh water stream, a 1/2 acre of grass,  a large stall, and the goats sleep in an old silo.  I know many horse people turn their noses at anything other then beautiful wood fencing, pristine, flat grassy paddocks, and a partridge in a pear tree, but that will never happen here.  I know that I will have to hay year round and probably keep the horse in the stall at night.  My main concern is that the dang metal that I've tirelessly picked up piece by tiny piece returns periodically after a heavy rain brings more to the surface.  How dangerous is this really to a horse?  Can horses be around a patch of concrete here, a stump there, and a little metal coming up from the earth?  Everything you read says it all has to be perfect, but then driving around I've seen Clydesdales in virtual junk yards on 1 strand of 2ft high electric.

Am I overthinking this?  Being too cautious?  What are the risks?  Anyone have pictures of their own less then ideal horse properties?  Of course, I want what's best for my animals.  Their safety and health are my #1 priority, but I will never, ever be able to have the perfect property, does that mean my dreams are dashed and all of this was for not?


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## Oakroot (Dec 6, 2012)

I think you are being the appropriate amount of cautious. Horses are practically suicidal with their quest to hurt themselves.  What I would recommend is to go buy a 100 dollar metal detector and give your 1/2 acre area a good going over.  That should find you most of the bigger nearer the surface stuff.  I would also trim any branches up to about 6 or 7 feet. That will keep any horses from impaling themselves (sadly I have known horses who have done this). If you used t-posts be sure to have those capped as well. It sounds like you have some good horse sense. With them watching out for you, you should be alright. Just keep an eye out. An old lesson horse is going to be calm enough not to have to worry to much about. It is when they run and play that accidents tend to happen.


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## sawfish99 (Dec 6, 2012)

First, plan on 2 horses, even if one is a smaller pony.  Horses are herd animals (like goats).  While some horses will accept goats as companions, not all will.  

Next, get a copy of "Paddock Paradise" by Jamie Jackson.  Read it twice.  That will help you reconsider what you "need" for your area.  Yes, stumps are fine.  Metal objects are not fine. You definitely want to remove the metal as much as possible.  The pieces sticking out of the ground can seriously damage the hoof bulbs and lead to nasty infections.  I would probably fence in a track about 8' wide around the property.  Run 2 strand electric using t posts (with the tops capped).  Make sure your track area is clear of metal hazards.  Over time, work on the paddock area in the middle of the track until it is ready for turnout.

No, your hopes are not dead.


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## SheepGirl (Dec 6, 2012)

With a bunch of metal, definitely make sure they are UTD on tetanus vaccinations.


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## goodhors (Dec 6, 2012)

Figure on horses chewing on any trees in their paddock and killing them by stomping on the roots.
Horses in winter REALLY have a need to chew wood, so they can turn into beavers, gnawing on 
the barn along with brush and trees.  Unless the trees are protected, the horses will kill them one
and all.  You may want to learn your trees, some are poison to horses.  These would include Black
Walnut and it's family.  Only takes a little of the tree parts, leaves, to get horse foundered.  Normally
the horse would ignore this tree, going elsewhere in the field, but your area will be tiny, you will have
bored horses.  Red Maple is one of the most popular, self-seeding trees around.  Has 3-lobed leaves
with brilliant color in fall.  It is sold under many common names, but the Latin name is Acer Rubrum,
is ALWAYS printed on the label to ID it with.  The dried leaves are the killer, they destroy the oxygen 
carrying ability in the blood.  Happens quite fast, takes only a few DRIED leaves eaten, to be a huge 
problem.  The boredom factor, hunger, is where horses will get into toxic things they would normally
ignore with more area to roam.   

There are sites you can view to learn about toxic trees, shrubs, plants, in your area.  Yew, 
a common landscape shrub is extremely poison to horses.

The metal detector could be a huge help in finding metal peices and parts.  Not sure why it suddenly
decides to resurface when you get animals in that area, but it ALWAYS comes up out of the dirt.  We
have found broke off T-posts in a field that have been invisible for over 30 years, mowed and disced
regulary each year of that time, suddenly you trip over it one day!!

Maybe you could get a contractor to come in and remove stumps, level up the area for good drainage,
and with a few loads of dirt, cover things, old dirt surfaces better.  It could give you a clearer (of hazards) 
paddock if the machine pushes things back away.  Maybe cover some of the dirt around the barn/shed 
area for safety.  Stumps could be ground down with a machine if digging them up with a machine is 
too much work.  Stump grinder could be rented for a day now and then, to make progress on the place.
Use the grindings to mulch bushes near the house!

You just keep chunking away at clearing things.  Any folks advertising they haul scrap metal away for
you?  They sell it then, keep the cash, can save you a lot of work!


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## Wannatryitall (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks for the advice!

I have looked into the poisonous plants/trees and no red maple or yew, but unfortunately there are some pesky black walnut trees.  I have removed them within the fenced area, but not the ones in the other 5 acres we are planning on fencing off in spring. Is it the bark, leaves, or nuts that are poisonous?  The darn squirrels are making complete removal nearly impossible. We don't have any pine or anything with low branches that they could get hurt on and quite frankly I could care less if they kill some of the trees by chewing, it is really overgrown.

We are considering chipping many of the dead trees and lining the main runs with it to cut down on mud and hopefully to cover where the metal is coming up.  As for a metal detector, I fear that it won't ever stop going off. ahhh

 We are city people new to the country so equipment is scarce and money is tight since our land cost us a fortune.  We borrowed a tractor to clear the trees, but we don't have access to it any longer so we can't disc the ground, it's all been picking up by hand.  Like I said, I've removed every bit of it that's exposed, but I've heard horror stories of horses grazing and picking up and consuming a nail and I know that I will never, ever get every piece cleared.  Our fence is lumber and step-ins so no worries about T-posts.  The suicidal horse statement is what scares me, I was hoping I was overthinking things.  I got so much advice about getting our goats that I was terribly nervous for weeks and they have basically been a piece of cake.  I was hoping this situation might be the same....

This pony is for my kids, but I realize that he will need a companion which means I will be getting a horse of my own hopefully next fall.  I stay home so this little guy will be worked with often nearly everyday.  Would it be better if he was just stall kept for the majority of the time? It is a huge stall that we've finished off.   A horse should be a horse to me, they should have room to move about and play, but I know many a horse who stays in a stall when they aren't being worked with.

He isn't shod, would that put him more at risk of picking up stuff in his feet?


Jeesh, other then some initial fighting, my goats were a piece of cake compared to my worries about a pony.  I think I have myself talked out of this already....

Have any of you housed horses in the woods or around other objects (there is some old concrete barn foundation in the center of the property)?  I was also considering a large round pen to keep him in when he isn't in his stall, would that be a better, safer solution?


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## PendergrassRanch (Dec 7, 2012)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> With a bunch of metal, definitely make sure they are UTD on tetanus vaccinations.


Not only this, but make sure you are good friends with your vet and have a huge bank account.  

Horses live their lives trying to kill themselves so they will find a way.  I know of a horse spearing himself in the arse while rubbing his butt on a tree.  Also a horse that lost a hoof (and its life) because of a tiny piece of metal.  Owners thought their pasture was clear and good, but this piece was in "clean" fill dirt and worked its way up through the ground.  Of course the horse found it.  People talk about goats being good at finding holes in fences, well horses will find something to hurt themselves on.


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## goodhors (Dec 7, 2012)

Any and all parts of the Black Walnut are toxic to horses.  You don't want chip it up
for spreading on the ground AT ALL.  That is why I suggested using chips for house
mulch.  A person we know used some "free" sawdust from a woodworker neighbor,
horse legs swelled all up, she tried to founder.  Yep, about two handfuls of the Black
Walnut in the sawdust, absorbed the poison thru her hooves.  Took some fast Vet
work, lots of cold hosing the legs, special stuff under the hooves to prevent bone 
rotation inside the hoof capsule to prevent the foundering.

Studies with Founder, show horse WILL start showing symtoms after eating ONE 
TEASPOON worth.  Again, the poison is in ALL PARTS, leaves, nuts, sawdust, bark,
so horse needs to avoid it.  The poison is often in the ground around a tree, prevents
other plants from "stealing" soil nutrients by growing close to tree.

I would NOT suggest spreading any of your chipped wood on the dirt.  Wood is 
organic and will deteriorate, making the dirt into slime.  That muck doesn't drain,
just gets deeper and deeper.  Fine if you want to grow plants, not good for hooved
animals.  Use dirt fill of some kind, make it a deep layer if you can.  Gravel, road 
mixes drain pretty well, sand is just too fine and washes away badly. 

We rent machines from a rental place.  We make a list of jobs that need machinery,
then rent it for a day or two, get everything done and send the machine back.  Has
worked pretty well for us, the delivery guy will give you a quicky lesson in driving
and using the parts.  We get the dirt delivered ahead, so everything is ready to go
when the machine arrives.  Our rental guy charges by hours of use on the machine,
wants the machine hosed off clean when he comes back to pick it up.  He will charge
if he has to clean the muck off himself.  Skid steers with bucket or auger, backhoe
for cleaning ditches, log splitter, high lift for tree removal of LARGE trees.  Some 
rental charges go by the day.  Sure easier to rent, than own a machine you only 
need for a little while.

A corral, roundpen, could be helpful for when you want them outside.  I wouldn't use
sand for footing, they can eat it with any food they get inside.  Gravel fill is good, 
better because it will be more solid, pack a bit for you.

I would really suggest you add some kind of fill for the area horse and pony will be on.
You said they dumped things around the shed, so fill could cover it a bit deeper for 
safety.  One of the rolling magnets could be a tool for pushing around to find small metal
on the ground as it gets churned with hooves.  Needs to be a STRONG magnet to grab
loose metal pieces.  Wheels make it easy to use, keeps it even above the dirt for finding
things.

Horses are like anything else.  Some find trouble in a padded stall.  Others are kept in 
junkyard paddocks full of machinery, loose trash and never have a mark on them.  It
is always SAFER to have a clean area, but not always possible.  So you deal with damage.
Shoes only cover the edges of a hoof, so not really protective if there is metal to be stepped
on.  Checking hooves daily, cleaning them should let you find any problems quickly to 
deal with.  It also gets your hands on the lower leg for finding cuts to care for them too.


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