# Pen G,  Tylans?  Sick goat.



## Mamaboid (Mar 11, 2013)

I have spent all morning trying to find a dosage for Pen G for goats.  Is it different for different problems, or is there a standard dosage to fall back on? Also, are pen g and tylan 50 or 2000 interchangeable?  If so, what about dosage for tylans?  I want this info for general information, I have no emergency situation right now.  

I do have a 7 week old fainter doeling that is scouring this morning.  I have given her jump start pro bios, and started her on dimethox treatment for coccidiosis.  Watching her closely and will yell for help if she gets worse, but for now, I am ok.

We have NO access to a vet, as the closest one that will treat goats is almost 2 hours away and will NOT come this far.  In an extreme emergency we could take them there but a trip that long would probably kill an animal that was that sick anyway.  Consequently, we are pretty much on our own for treatments and so far have been very lucky.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Mar 11, 2013)

I dose Pen G at 1cc per 15 pounds and you have to do it every 8-12 hours (I do 12) and you have to do a course of it, NEVER just once. Go at least 5 days, I do 7. 

I use Dura-Pen
Penicillin G Benzathine and Penicillin G Procaine Injectable.
I use the 300,000 units per mL

I much prefer an IM injection for all antibiotics but that's me.


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## Mamaboid (Mar 11, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> I dose Pen G at 1cc per 15 pounds and you have to do it every 8-12 hours (I do 12) and you have to do a course of it, NEVER just once. Go at least 5 days, I do 7.
> 
> I use Dura-Pen
> Penicillin G Benzathine and Penicillin G Procaine Injectable.
> ...


Thanks Straw, appreciate it.


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## Roll farms (Mar 11, 2013)

I use Pen G (Penicillin Procaine G) at 1cc per 20#, every 12 hrs.  I use it mainly when there is an injury / wound or for 'girl trouble'  - rough kidding, retained placenta, etc.
It's also the 'go to' for tetanus and listeriosis, along w/ B vitamin.

I've never used Tylan, sorry.

I keep tetracycline on hand but rarely use it, it tends to go bad (outdated) on me....but I keep buying more to keep on hand 'just in case'.

I know you cannot use tetracyclines and Pen g at the same time, one cancels out the other.

I also keep Nuflor on hand.  It's my 'go to' drug. 

Here it seems our goats never get 'a little' sick.  If they get sick, it's a BAD thing and I have to bring out my 'big gun' (Nuflor).  
I haven't had to use it for around a year, thankfully.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Mar 11, 2013)

> I know you cannot use tetracyclines and Pen g at the same time, one cancels out the other.


Yes that's right. If you use oxytetracycline (LA200 or the likes) it will cancel the penicillin out.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Mar 11, 2013)

Exactly what I needed. 

My Cara (LaMancha) was a little off nursing this morning.  Noticed her left ear was all crusty.  I cleaned it with an some alcohol wipes.  Green gunky stuff.  I would say she has an ear infection.  I have PEN G on hand and wanted to know how much to give.

STRAW HAT KIKOS  does 1 CC / 15 lbs twice a day for 7 days.
ROLL FARMS does 1 CC / 20 ilbs twice a day - How many days to go give?


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## Roll farms (Mar 11, 2013)

Length of treatment depends on what the problem is...small wound?  7 days...a really deep wound that takes a long time to heal, I'd do 14 days.  
Rough kidding - 7 days
Retained placenta - 10-14 days (depending on what the doe's drainage looks like).

I also give Probios any time someone's on antibiotics for any length of time.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Mar 11, 2013)

Do you give in the muscle or under the skin?

What size needle do you use?

If giving in the muscle, which muscle do you use?


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Mar 11, 2013)

Yes probios is a must during any form of antibiotic.

I use 22g needles because that's what I have here but I hate 22g. I like 18 best.

I give IM and I just hold the animal and stab it in the thigh, or hip muscle.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 11, 2013)

18 gauge needle for Penn G products, because it is so think. I use 3/4 inch needles. I find the 20Gauge needles a little too thin for the Penn G, but 20 gauge work well for vaccines. 
you can give it Sub-q or IM. I do every 8 hours the first day or two and then every 12 hours.  

I have not used Tylan, I have used La 200 injectable.  LA 200 is also sold as Biomycin under a different brand name.  

This is a good time to discuss the difference between Durapen and Procain G. I prefer Procain G over Durapen.  Durpen is a long acting pennicilling and has a longer withdrawal. I almost always go with a shorter withdrawl drug when ever possible, because we are a meat farm. But their is another reason.  Procain G releases a bigger peak of antibiotic. by giving it 2 or 3 times a day you are causing peaks in the antibiotic and these peaks are very affective in killing the bacteria and helping the animal recover.  Durapen is a long release antibiotic for of Penn G(procain G) and you don't get as high of peaks.  At least that is how it was explained to us by a vet.  There is really no benifit to the longer acting and you are just getting a longer withdrawal time.  It is also why it is importnant to dose the Procain G  2 or 3 times a day.  

La 200 wouldn't be my first choice for a kid.  I have used it on younger kids, but I prefer a non-tetracyclene based antibiotic on kids.  High dosages of tetracyclene can affect bone growth on young growing animals.  Although, If I had nothing else I would use it. 

I use 1 cc per 15 to 20 lbs of penn G, And I give it anywhere from 3 to 10 days.  I may only give it 3 days if I am giving it along iwth coccidiosis medicine for scours, but for injuries and respiratory problems I would go with the 7 to 10 days. I have a kid right now that weighs 40 lbs and he has been getting 2 cc's twice a day for 9 days now for a leg injury.  

Penn G woudl be my choice for scours and injuries and for young kids.
LA 200 I am more likely to use on older goats, kidding issues,  respiratory problems in older goats and hoof problems.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 11, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> I dose Pen G at 1cc per 15 pounds and you have to do it every 8-12 hours (I do 12) and you have to do a course of it, NEVER just once. Go at least 5 days, I do 7.
> 
> I use Dura-Pen
> Penicillin G Benzathine and Penicillin G Procaine Injectable.
> ...


I agree, I think IM is a better route for antibiotics. I have done some of the Penn G sub-q, especially with young kids and they have responded to the treatments. But technically if I understand it correctly giving Antibiotics IM is more affective.


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## Roll farms (Mar 11, 2013)

I gave Pen G IM for years on the advice of my vet, before I read on message boards that you 'shouldn't' or 'can't'....So I still give it IM.

This is another of those, "Ask 20 different goat producers how they do something and you'll get 20 answers." things.

I still think the best course for 'Newbies'  is to work with your vet until you get comfortable diagnosing  / treating different issues.


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## Mamaboid (Mar 11, 2013)

I thank you all for all the information.  I learned a lot just reading this thread so far.  I am not new to giving shots, cdt, wormers, and all the 'normal' stuff.  But so far, we have never had a sick goat other than a little log or scour problem once in a while which I am ok working with.  It came to me this morning while I was giving Ivory her DiMeth, that if I had a serious problem or injury, I wouldn't know dosages because I have never had to so far.  That inspired me to open a new document on my computer and start making notes of what I did and didn't know.  Found out I know quite a bit.  Found out there is a heck of a lot more that I don't know.  They say any day that you learn something is a good day.  So far this has been a great day.  Now if I can just get this little girl working good again all will be well.  Will update her on the kidding thread page.  Thanks again.

BJ


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## babsbag (Mar 12, 2013)

I will admit that I didn't read every post in this thread closely, but remember to draw back on the plunger and check for blood when giving Pen. You don't want to get it in a vein, it can be fatal.

That is why I hate IM, I am a big chicken.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Mar 12, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I will admit that I didn't read every post in this thread closely, but remember to draw back on the plunger and check for blood when giving Pen. You don't want to get it in a vein, it can be fatal.
> 
> That is why I hate IM, I am a big chicken.


I know I should but most times I don't draw back. It's hard to do that when you have a goat that knows your coming after it twice a day to stab it in the butt. Hard enough to catch them then to hold them still and to draw back, look, and then push. I just stab in the thigh and push it quick as I can.  

Really should take the time to draw back though.

Oh and I LOVE IM. Don't like Sub Q very much. IM is so easy.


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## babsbag (Mar 12, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> I know I should but most times I don't draw back. It's hard to do that when you have a goat that knows your coming after it twice a day to stab it in the butt. Hard enough to catch them then to hold them still and to draw back, look, and then push. I just stab in the thigh and push it quick as I can.
> 
> Really should take the time to draw back though.
> 
> Oh and I LOVE IM. Don't like Sub Q very much. IM is so easy.


That is what makes us all unique.

One of BYH members lost a goat to a Pen injection and I will forever remember reading her posts and I really felt her pain.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 13, 2013)

I normally don't either, I am sure I will start to if one drops dead.  And I too feel it is easier to just grab and stick in their bottoms than to try to pinch skin and do sub-Q when you are doing it by yourself.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Mar 13, 2013)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> I normally don't either, I am sure I will start to if one drops dead.  And I too feel it is easier to just grab and stick in their bottoms than to try to pinch skin and do sub-Q when you are doing it by yourself.


haha Yeah. One drops dead on me I think I'll start drawing back too.

Yup. Sub Q is a pain. Takes longer and is harder. IM is the way to go.


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## Mamaboid (Mar 13, 2013)

I have never done IM.  Only shots I have had to give so far is the CDT and 2 wormer shots, all subQ.  I give myself 4 shots a day, mostly in my belly, for my diabetes, so shots of any kind is not a biggy for me, just wasn't sure of best way.  I think when I do have to give anything IM, I will draw back.  Somehow seeing the words 'drop over dead' made me think that is the way to go.


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## JNFarm (Apr 11, 2013)

I had a little doe drop on me last week...it was heartbreaking.  I will never again inject without pulling back.  Lesson learned.  

Hi...I am new here....I am just trolling around learning SO MUCH!


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## babsbag (Apr 12, 2013)

JNFarm said:
			
		

> I had a little doe drop on me last week...it was heartbreaking.  I will never again inject without pulling back.  Lesson learned.
> 
> Hi...I am new here....I am just trolling around learning SO MUCH!




I hope you enjoy your stay.

I am very sorry you lost your doe; it is always hard no matter how we lose one. I have a hard time with IM because of the pulling back part. I can grab a goat and "tent" the skin over the rib cage and inject easier and quicker than I can ever do IM. Usually when I do IM and pull back on the plunger the goat moves and then I am not sure I am in the right spot and have to pull back again. Major pain, for both of us I am sure.


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## elevan (Apr 12, 2013)

Penicillin - 1 ml/ 15#  IM injection 2x day for 7 days

Tylan 50  4 ml /25#  IM injection for 5 days (Respiratory disordersie: shipping fever)


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## Hipshot (May 18, 2018)

Searching for answers. To find this is awesome . Not new to goats but new to modern goat raising. To find this thread is like finding Alden's lamp.   I made this from stuff laying around.b It's  not finished .Head catch needs to be better, and then fastened only to one side. then  I can lay down the  animal for foot care .


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