# Tail banding gone wrong?



## Southdown (Apr 22, 2016)

We always dock our lambs tails with the elastrator method (not too short, not too long) and normally the lambs will display pain for a good two days and then they start to feel better and resume being normal lambs.  They will often bite at their tails for the next three weeks, but no profound pain.  I have one ewe lamb right now that is not normal.  She has been in intense pain from the tail banding for two weeks.  She lays down all the time and when she does walk around, her rear end is hunched inward and she walks poorly.  I noticed today (at two weeks) that the tail below the band is getting liquefied.  It kind of smells too.  Every other lamb the tail dies below the band and becomes hard and dehydrated like.  This one is squishy.  Her tail was the thickest tail I've ever done.  I don't want to see this lamb in pain anymore. 

What do I do?  I can call a vet, but not until Monday.

Could it be that the band wasn't tight enough and it allowed blood to flow yet?  Could it be infected?  Could it be that it's taking longer to die off because her tail is so thick?  

We've discussed cutting the tail off below the band.  In theory it shouldn't hurt, but what if it's not dead yet?  I don't want to leave an open/gaping wound either.  That also wouldn't solve the pain issue because I would still be leaving the band in place.  

I've just never had a lamb struggle this much.


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## Latestarter (Apr 22, 2016)

Wow, sorry your lamb is in such a bad way. I can't help, but maybe @purplequeenvt @norseofcourse @Roving Jacobs @secuono @Sheepshape Anyone else? I know there are a lot of other sheeple on here... Hope you get it fixed!


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## secuono (Apr 22, 2016)

I band and then 3-6 days, cut 1cm below the band. Rarely, there's still some flow.

If you get the band on the bone and not between the joints, then it could live longer and cause pain. Sometimes you can feel the space between, but can't always get the band right in between.

I remove the tails because flies will start coming around and that will lead to big issues. Also, LGDs will stalk the lambs for the tails. About a week after the tail is cut off, the end is dry and ready to pop off or you can leave it and it should fall on its own.

You can add a new band above the current one, then in a day or two, cut off the tail from the bottom of the original band. Use sharp, clean shears.


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## Sheepshape (Apr 23, 2016)

Though I use a hot docker, I'm pretty sure that secuono's thoughts are very sound. it does sound as though the nerve and blood supply were not entirely eradicated....damaged nerves give severe pain.

I think I would carefully re-band above the original one, and ensure the band is between the vertebrae (give her some painkiller like metacam first if you have some). Then cut off the tail after about 24 hours...nerves should be truly dead by then. She will probably need some antibiotics, too.

With regards to pain, I cannot speak too highly for the 'hot knife' (I really hate to inflict and pain at all on my lambs). The blade is heated by a propane flame and the the lamb often barely flinches.The nerves are killed almost instantly. If there is bleeding, any vessels can be sealed with touching the stump to the knife. The lambs often then run straight back to mum and feeding, disgruntled by the indignity of being held down more than anything else. thereafter they show no signs of pain and infection is very uncommon. the hot docker can be used up until 10 weeks of age.

Good luck with your ewe lamb.


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## purplequeenvt (Apr 23, 2016)

How old was she when docked? I can't say that I've ever, in 16 years of sheep, had any major issue with banding tails so I'm not sure how much help I'll be. 

We've had a few tails here and there that seem to get wet and squishy instead of drying up, but they've never seemed to bother the lamb and they've always fallen off by themselves. 

Try testing the nerves in her tail by pinching. Start at the bottom and work up. If she flinches when pinched, the nerves are still intact. If there is not reaction, I'd be tempted to cut it off. Cut right below the band and then put pine tar or some other fly repellant on the area. 

When placing the band, did you try to get the band in between the vertebrae? I've found that placing the band there reduces the duration of their initial pain and there is less for the band to cut through which means the tail dies faster.


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## Roving Jacobs (Apr 23, 2016)

If its looking infected I would get it off asap and get her on some antibiotics. If you can find someone local with a set of these to use I wouldn't bother banding again first but otherwise band and cut to reduce bleeding. Definitely use some fly protection as well, she doesn't need fly strike on top of her other issues and if she's older it might be a good idea to make sure she's up to date on tetanus.


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## norseofcourse (Apr 23, 2016)

Sorry to hear about your lamb.  What @secuono and the others have said makes sense, with doing another band above the first, between vertebrae.  Interestingly, the sheep raising book I have doesn't mention that detail.

I am fortunate to have a short-tailed breed, and not have to dock tails.

Good luck with your ewe lamb!


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## Southdown (Apr 23, 2016)

Admittedly, I never knew I was supposed to feel for vertebrae and try to get in between them with the band.  Is it difficult to feel for the vertebrae?  I just attributed it to her extra thick/meaty tail compared to most lambs.  She is up and moving around more today, but the tail is quite gooey and stinks below the band.  It doesn't look bad above the band.  I think I will try the pinch test, as someone mentioned.  I will give my vet a call on Monday and see what he suggests.  I think it may need to be cut off below the band because I'm worried about flies.  I've never done it though and I don't want to hurt the lamb or create an open wound and make things worse.  I'm also not sure how to dose such a small lamb for antibiotics, so I will have to ask the vet.  I don't want to re-band above the current band because I don't want it to be any shorter.  If the band is in fact on top of the vertebrae, will it just heal slower? Or would it not heal?

I band at 24 hours.


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## purplequeenvt (Apr 24, 2016)

Strange. We band at birth-4 days old, but after the initial pain, they don't seem to even notice their tails. No more discomfort and no biting at their bums. 

You want to feel for a bump on the tail (that's the vertebrae). Now slide your fingers up or down a little bit and find the next bump. The tail should be able to flex slightly right at that spot. You want to aim for the space between those bumps. There is so much less for the band to cut through putting it between vertebrae and what's there is mainly soft tissue. 

I'm thinking that you may have put the band directly on the bone. The tail is dying, but it is taking longer to shrivel and dry up. The slower die off is letting stuff rot first.


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## Roving Jacobs (Apr 24, 2016)

If you are noticing your lambs being in a lot of pain for days and agitated by their tails for weeks later you may want to ask your vet about using a different method of docking from now on or asking them to show you exactly how to do it. I'm not a fan of banding and cut mine but even the ones I've helped band seem to recover fairly quickly and I've never seen them biting at it later. Hope your little one recovers quickly!


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