# Itchy, Scratchy, course, breaking hair



## Our7Wonders (Jan 28, 2011)

OK.  My CL stress is nearly behind me (still waiting on the final results from the vet and will send blood in on Monday for tests, but almost there).

So now on to my new worries:

I have a doe who's hair is getting courser around her back end and neck.  Looks as though the hair is breaking.  I originally thought the hair was coming in more white, but it's because the undercoat is showing more.  I dismissed the neck hair at first because I thought it might be her plastic chain collar that we used to lead her with during the first few weeks she was here.  But the collar has been off for a couple weeks and the breakage is continuing to get worse.  

My other doe has some spots that look like the hair might be breaking too.  They've been scratching/biting for a bit now so I dusted them and their area well with diatomaceous earth.  Hasn't helped at all.  I searched through the hair today and thought I *might* have seen a bug or two on the lighter colored doe.  Couldn't get them to move, even got one on my nail and still couldn't tell what I was looking at.  I need to try a magnifying glass.  What I saw was two-tone.  reddish brown on one end, darker on the other.  I don't know what goat lice or mites look like without being magnified hundreds of times like they show in the pictures.  I can't see anything in the darker hair of the other doe.  

So, I know if it's mites some recommend ivomec 1% injectible at 1 cc  per 25# as a drench.  CM (I think) recommends going subQ at 1cc per 120 pounds for mites (but I think that was mites only).  If it's lice, will the ivomec be the best to use as well, and if I were to do the subQ would the 1 cc work for lice too?  

And here's my other thing, these gals have never been wormed chemically before.  And before the stress of the move this seemed to be working fine for them, they appeared healthy, as did the rest of the herd.  They are 3.5 and 2.5 years old, so until recently, they've done well for a few years.  There's been no other livestock here for them to pick up a worm load from, however if stress can trigger it, I suppose they could be having issues now.  So if I'm going to treat them with a chemical anyways, as much as I don't like the thought, I'm wondering if I should just worm them as well.  Being preggo though, should I get a fecal done first so I know which wormer would work best?  I guess that's likely always the best route to go, it's just that I'd really prefer to use ONE med if possible for both external and internal free loaders.  Will ivomec help with most internal worms as well?  I'm not very experienced with the lower eyelid color thing, but somewhere I read they should look like good ripe watermelon dark pink.  They're not dark pink.  They're not quite down to pake pink either, more of just a pastel pink I guess I'd say (like carnation pink?).    

My goodness!  These goats are going to be the death of me!  Someday I hope to have a better handle on things - right now it seems at every turn there's some new worry.  Though I am wondering if many of my concerns don't all point to an external parasite, including our recent staph infection if they are scratching themselves enough to break the skin.  Can fleas or mites cause eyelid changes as well?  Or it that primarily a barber poll issue?

Alright, enough questions for one post.  Thanks guys.  I really want to keep my gals as natural as possible but I don't want to put off treating any longer and put them at further risk.

Oh, forgot to add, I'm not ruling out copper deficiency as a possibility on the rough coat and breaking hair.  I have copper boluses on the way from a memeber here, just waiting for it to arrive.

Thanks much!


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## ksalvagno (Jan 28, 2011)

I think CM did it at lcc per 110 lbs for injection. I believe he just dosed them what was on the label. If you have mites or lice, I would give them an injection. I know injection works on all worms that Ivomec takes care of for alpacas but don't know about goats. A fecal certainly wouldn't hurt but nothing else is going to take care of the mites/lice.


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## helmstead (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't agree with that per 110 lbs dose.

Just give it orally at 1 cc per 22 lbs.  I would go ahead and use the Ivermec, to help rule out worms also - but I agree this sounds like lice and/or mites.  Dose it every 10 days for 3 or 4 treatments to hit all life cycles.

ALSO - CyLence is a WONDERFUL product for lice and mites...to use when you don't need to deworm.

You can get pyrethrin (spelling?  sorry I'm sooo tired) spray and spray down the whole barn...sometimes this is needed when you have a heavy infestation...the dust just won't get it all.


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## Our7Wonders (Jan 28, 2011)

Thanks for the quick response ladies!  I'm going to just worm them then and get it over with.  It will hopefully take care of ALL the yuckies, inside and out.

For future reference, tell me about CyLence.  From the little bit I just googled it sounds like it's a pour on.  I thought pour ons were a big no-no for goats.  Is it not absorbed into the skin like pour on ivomec?


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## Roll farms (Jan 29, 2011)

Pour on dewormers can be a big no-no...Some folks use them.  I don't.  

I've read that goats don't metabolize pour on dewormers the same as cattle and they can build up in their system and become toxic.

Cyclence is a different chemical, and apparently doesn't build up in goats the same way, as I haven't found anything that warns not to use it on goats like I have w/ pour on dewormers.

CM stated he had better results giving ivermectin for external parasites when he injected it, vs. orally.

I myself had good luck orally using 1cc per 25# on a doe w/ leg mites.

If you're not already feeding BOSS, I love what it does for our goats' coats.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 29, 2011)

Our7Wonders said:
			
		

> My goodness!  These goats are going to be the death of me!  Someday I hope to have a better handle on things - right now it seems at every turn there's some new worry.


You should give yourself more credit.  Goats seem to love throwing a curve ball at you- it's what they do best.  But between your getting advice from experienced producers here, researching on your own, and getting the vet involved and TESTING when it's been necessary like you've been doing it sounds to me like you're doing great.


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## helmstead (Jan 29, 2011)

Back in the day, LOL, I used pour on ivermec as a pour on...because that's what the directions said to do.  It worked...BUT it burned the goats and they all got bald, scaling patches where I had applied the pour on.  I should add, it only burned the darker goats...odd.

Vet said that their hide isn't as durable as a cow's hide.  He said aside from the burns, there was no contradiction to using a pour on.  Of course, the burn was enough for me to stop using it as a pour on!  But, believe it or not, pour ons can be DRENCHED.  The mucos membranes of the mouth and throat protect from the burn, and also aid in absorbtion to the bloodstream.

I've never had an issue with using CyLence.  In the summer, it even helps with flies!  BONUS


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## Our7Wonders (Jan 29, 2011)

I'm gonna get ivomec from the feed store today - and, of course, I have another question.

Ariel is due in 3 weeks. Jasmine in 4.  If I do 3-4 rounds of this every 10 days it will put us up to and past their kidding dates.  It's recommended to worm right after kidding.  Will this whole sequence be enough for the post kidding worming?  What I'm asking is, I won't need to start the worming cycle over again when the kid will I?

And for their shed and surrounding area, should I dust it all down with something?  Sevin maybe?  Is that relatively safe if we we're to have a baby drop soon?  (I was given due dates and had an ultra sound to confirm, but the buck ran with the ladies, so I'm wanting to be ready in case dates are off).  Should I dust them down with something in addition to the drench?

n.smithurmond, thanks for the boost - I don't know how I'd get along without this board.  I SO appreciate those of you with more experience being willing to answer many of the same questions over and over again for all the new people venturing in to goats.  I am ever so thankful for you all - truely a blessing!


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## PJisaMom (Jan 29, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I've never had an issue with using CyLence.  In the summer, it even helps with flies!  BONUS


I don't want to drag myself out to the barn at the moment and read my actual bottle of CyLence, but my possibly bred doe is itchy right now... ok for pg and and how much do you use?  

I promise... I'll walk out to the barn next time, but I just came back in and my toes are froze!  LOL 

Thanks!


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## helmstead (Jan 29, 2011)

It's fine for bred does.


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## Shar (Mar 27, 2011)

I know this is a post two months after the fact but my goat had the same symptoms plus wasn't eating very well so took him to a local vet for a check-up and found he was seriously needing Vitiman B.  After 10 days of SQ injections he was a hundred percent better and now his fur is back to normal.  I also thought he had lice or whatever but the vet found none.  The poor baby had worms too so after a few days of injections we dewormed him.  He also had to have a probiotic.


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## Our7Wonders (Mar 27, 2011)

Interesting on the vitamin B.  I had a fecal run on Ariel just last week, which was 3 weeks post kidding and she was pretty clean - they found just one egg.  I did give her copper just after she kidded and the dandruff is about 75% better.  Shedding is still going strong though.  I hadn't thought about B vitamins.  I was planning on taking her to my vet this week for a skin scraping and some blood work done.  

How did they determine the B shortage?  Does that show up in bloodwork or did the vet just guess that it might help?

I do have B complex - bought it just before everyone ran out of it.  It's certainly worth a shot.  I think I'll have her blood work done first, just to make sure I know where we stand, should be Monday or Tuesday when we do that.


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