# When to give up on a runt?



## Miss mouse (Mar 25, 2020)

Hey guys,
So from my unexpected litter I had 2 runts that I was worried about by 1 week old so on day 8 I started tracking everybody. Momma started getting 1tbsp off calf manna with every meal, all the pellets and hay she wants, a little bit of oats and some veggies.

1 runt has recovered and is neck in neck with the rest of them for weight but the other has been a constant struggle. 

i have his weights as follows:
March 20 - 85 grams (litter average 109g)
21 - 97g (123g)
22- 113g (142g)
23- 115g (152g)
24- 106g but gave him a private feeding that got him to 110g (161g)
25- 111g private: 117g (177g)

is this a losing battle or should I keep it going?
What would you do?
@Bunnylady


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## Miss mouse (Mar 25, 2020)

he’s the green line aka #3 OR because he’s marked with orange in his right ear.


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## Miss mouse (Mar 26, 2020)

so despite covid19, $10 of gas for a trip into town, and $40 for a tin of KMR....I decided to go to town and get him KMR to try to get him to eat since private feedings weren’t going so well. He would suckle for a bit and then fall asleep. 
So I got him all cuddled up in a towel and heating pad and gave him 5ml of formula. He hated it but we got through it. He got some cuddle time in the warm heater pad and is back out with his litter now.
He’s 2 weeks old and after finishing his formula he weighed 114 grams or 4 ounces. His litter mates are all around 180g or 6 ounces.
Any tips on helping this little man? How many ml/cc should I give him per feeding?


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## Miss mouse (Mar 26, 2020)

Guess who weighed in at 136g this morning! And now he’s just a ball of energy. Can’t slow him down!


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## cluckmecoop7 (Mar 27, 2020)




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## WyoLiving (Mar 27, 2020)

Glad that you didn't give up on him yet, and happy to see him getting energy.  Hope he continues to thrive.  Little cutie.

Wish I could help you on the feeding amount, but I don't know anything about rabbits.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 27, 2020)

Don't worry about him catching up to his brothers and sisters in size.  As long as he is eating and gaining at his own rate, he is fine  Some runts always stay small.  Others catch up and grow to be normal size. I wouldn't use him for  breeding unless this is a dwarf breed and you are trying to decrease size.  If this is a meat breed, be aware that you will probably butcher him below weight for a fryer.


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## Miss mouse (Mar 27, 2020)

thanks guys! He continues to have an upward trend. I don’t think he’ll ever catch up but he’s starting to actually look healthy. I might try to adopt him out since he’ll never weigh in much to be good for meat.


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## Miss mouse (Mar 31, 2020)

and we’re in trouble again! 
Today runt lost 34 grams
he has very little energy, he’s not eating his KMR, just letting it dribble down his face. He’s also pooping these weird mucus like little sacks (picture attached since it’s kinda gross).
What do I do?!? Help!!!
He’s 19 days old
Help please @Bunnylady @Baymule


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## Baymule (Mar 31, 2020)

That doesn't look good. First thing that comes to my mind is coccidiosis. @Beekissed posted some very good information about using apple cider vinegar. I use ACV on myself and my animals. 






						Apple Cider Vinegar in the treatment and prevention of COCCIDIOSIS.
					

Here is a link about making vinegar and it has many interesting facts but the most significant for the subject on this post is on page 34 where it lists the many beneficial bacteria located in natural(not heat processed) vinegar~too many to list here...



					www.backyardherds.com


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## Miss mouse (Mar 31, 2020)

Thank you! I think he was severely dehydrated. I’ve had him in the house most of today and have tried to get him to drink formula, eat cecotropes, and just now gave him water with a bit of ACV and salt. He hasn’t gained any weight all day but he’s pooped a lot and I think I’ve basically replaced what’s been excreted. His energy was low all day but seems to be a touch more now. I hope he makes it through the night. I’ll resume babying him tomorrow if he does. He’s lucky I’m stuck at home 🙄
Send positive thoughts his way!
Thank you!


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## Baymule (Apr 1, 2020)

I hope he makes it. It sure won't be for lack of love or trying.


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## B&B Happy goats (Apr 1, 2020)




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## Miss mouse (Apr 1, 2020)

I’m sorry to say he passed this morning.

He got out of the nest box last night and was cold and hardly moving when my BF found him. I warned him up in a bowl of warm water but he was just gasping for air. His tummy was very bloated and he passed within an hour of us finding him.

We did an autopsy and didn’t find anything on his intestine or liver to think it’s coccidioses so I’m hopeful that the others will be okay.

In all my research I read that fruit tree branches are also a preventative so the whole herd is getting apple tree sticks and ACV in their water for a few weeks just in case. 

I’ve also removed the other kit I’ve been have weight issues with just in case and he’s in the house with all his own food and water etc.

i removed the nest box since all the other kits are big enough and I’m bleaching it just in case. 

anything else I can do to protect the herd?


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## Miss mouse (Apr 1, 2020)

This is Char, I’m considering renaming him/her Quarantine/Quarantina
Let’s hope she does better than Runt did


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## WyoLiving (Apr 1, 2020)

Sorry about Runt, you did all you could do.  Sometimes, they just don't thrive. 
 Hopefully Char responds quickly and can get back to her litter-mates.


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## Baymule (Apr 1, 2020)

I had a ewe that had triplets. The smallest one was not doing good. I brought her in the house and did all I could, but she didn't make it. Move forward a year and a half.  Last night, her big sister had a ewe lamb. So the sadness of loss all goes away with the joy of birth and life. 

I am sorry that Runt didn't make it. Sometimes no matter what we do, it isn't enough.


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## Miss mouse (Apr 1, 2020)

Thank you all for your support. I've been checking on Char regularly through the day and she seems to have full energy and is eating solids. Her poops are a little soft but nothing like runt was. Do you think it's safe to put her back or keep her quarantined overnight? Her weight line is there blueish one just a little above runt.


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## Baymule (Apr 1, 2020)

If it makes you feel better, keep her overnight.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 2, 2020)

Since she has caught up (almost) with the rest of the litter, it is probably safe for her to stay with them.  She will not stress as badly if she remains with them.  Changing her feed might also cause a problem.  I would return her to the cage with mom and not worry about her.  

The runt was not destined to make it so you should not feel badly about it - you certainly did everything you could to try to help him.  Sometimes if the doe has a large litter and there is a particularly tiny kit that is delicate and  unthrifty, I dispose of it right away since they often don't live past 2 weeks.   However that was after I had a lot of experience breeding in a semi commercial way.  At first, I tried hard to save all of the runts, including the "peanuts".  That is the way life is.


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## Miss mouse (Apr 2, 2020)

Thank you.
I decided to put Char back last night. 
She gained 6 grams since yesterday AM so she is getting nutrients. 
The family cages plowed through they're ACV water. Both drank almost a whole bottle. 
One of my bucks even drank half of his so I think it's a hit.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 2, 2020)

What _is_ ACV water?


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## Miss mouse (Apr 2, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> What _is_ ACV water?


Apple Cider Vinegar water.... As was suggested by @Baymule  so I did a bunch of reading online and it sounds like a really great supplement. 
They like the taste of it so they drink more which in turn keeps them more hydrated and reduces the stench of their pee. Also protects them from bad bacteria in their guts which in turn helps with prevention of a number of diseases.
You only need a couple Tbsp per gallon to get the benefits


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## Ridgetop (Apr 2, 2020)

OK.  I used to mix cider vinegar into my horses' bran mash with stuff to avoid sand colic.  Giving vinegar to horses is also supposed to be good to keep horses from developing stones.   They seemed to like it too.


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## Miss mouse (Apr 2, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> OK.  I used to mix cider vinegar into my horses' bran mash with stuff to avoid sand colic.  Giving vinegar to horses is also supposed to be good to keep horses from developing stones.   They seemed to like it too.


Yes I think help with urinary infections in rabbits was mentioned too!


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