# Is this a Nubian????



## Theykeepmebusy (Jan 30, 2011)

http://odessa.craigslist.org/grd/2189121393.html


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## themrslove (Jan 30, 2011)

He kinda looks more boer to me...
I doubt that he is pure anything.  But he really looks more of a 'meat' goat than a 'dairy' goat to me...


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## Theykeepmebusy (Jan 30, 2011)

That's what I was afraid of, you don't know how many disappointments this is to me.


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## Theykeepmebusy (Jan 30, 2011)

O.k....if this guy is dad and mom is Saanen.....and I'm expecting the does out of them......deal was, I would get milking does, for trade of a bull calf, have all documentation on this trade, she has the bull calf and I still have no doe kids....Am I getting some milking goats???  :/  Or should I just shoot for the cash end of our trade? Was to be if there are no does kidded. But also for Nubian/Saanen milk goats.  Not meaty Boer looking guy.


There was also suppose to be a breed back in a year with the does to him, but obviously this isn't happening....2 kind of ways, lol.


The goat in the picture with the jenny is the "Saanen x Nubian" doe, kind of hard to tell.

http://odessa.craigslist.org/grd/2189107305.html


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## Roll farms (Jan 31, 2011)

If that's a pure Nubian billy, I'll eat my hat.

He looks like a Boer x, could be to Nubian...could be to ???

The doe looks to have saanen in her, and w/ the floppy-ish ears it might be saanen x nubian or it might be saanen x boer.

The 'trusting' part of me wants to think she truly doesn't know any better...maybe she was 'told' he's Nubian....

But how could you live in TX (Boer capitol of the US) and NOT know???
(I know you're newer to goats....but she's a 'breeder'....)


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 31, 2011)

The ad says he came from a dairy... maybe they use a boer to freshen their dairy does if they don't need replacements?  Some folks do that so they can sell the kids for meat.


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## greenfamilyfarms (Jan 31, 2011)

I would most definitely NOT pay $250 for him.


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## Theykeepmebusy (Jan 31, 2011)

It is as I thought, this guy is the father of the doe kids I will get, so will I have to x them off as milking goats. I sent her an email, from the ad, and it's deff. the same person. She raises show lambs and seemed so full of information, sells beautiful horses, keeps the nanny to milk the extra ewes
 I am really disappointed that he isn't a Nubian for the dairy doe part, like I said I was expecting Nubian x Saanen..  When I first started goats she could of fooled me, but now I probably waist high in goats, when I saw his picture,  I just knew he was the from her. I am so disappointed, I figure I will take the kids, in the anonymous email she did confirm that her doe has not kidded yet, I was beginning to think we were going to have a big problem, (money/trade wise) Now it's if the girls I get will be milkers. There would be the only part of goats, the breeding/crossing, I haven't quite figured out.


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## Theykeepmebusy (Jan 31, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> If that's a pure Nubian billy, I'll eat my hat.
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> He looks like a Boer x, could be to Nubian...could be to ???
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Thank you Rolls, I took one look at that "Nubian" and said that's a darn Boer cross!!!  Then my husband said, how would you know, I've only been looking at Nubian pictures since I first started my quest on goats, and the fact that I have a Boer buck out there, and boy the look a lot alike. So I posted him here, the ad says, meaty and a few other hint words ,to me that points out she does know.  I really do love the people in this forum.  
 Everyone is great.


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## Theykeepmebusy (Jan 31, 2011)

greenfamilyfarms said:
			
		

> I would most definitely NOT pay $250 for him.


I agree!!!!!


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## Ariel301 (Jan 31, 2011)

He is certainly not worth $250. I agree he's a Boer or Boer mix, but fairly low quality conformation-wise...if you're just wanting a buck to make meat kids, he'd be fine, but you won't get any future milkers or show animals out of that buck. And honestly...you could do much better for that price, $250 ought to buy you a papered Nubian or Boer or probably whatever of a fair quality.


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## Roll farms (Jan 31, 2011)

I don't believe she wants to buy him, but she was promised kids sired by him and told they'd be "dairy" kids....she's asking if that IS a dairy buck, not if she should buy him.

At least...I think that's the situation....


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## Theykeepmebusy (Jan 31, 2011)

You are correct Rolls. I've got my fingers crossed on those "dairy does"   I found the dairy and they do cross with a Boer to their Dairy does and they remember the sale to this woman I am dealing with, it is in fact a Boer x Nubian Buck and the Doe is Nubian x Saanen......So if ya'll don't mind.....what am I going to get out of their kids?  Will they be dairy quality?  I am looking at a papered Nubian buck, with awesome written all over him and his parents, for these "dairy does" I'll be getting, question is....Is it worth it?  I'm in no position to be picky, but how many circles am I going to have to do!!!!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 1, 2011)

I'll eat Rolls hat too!!!   

Definatley a boer x for certain.  And Im not an expert on meat goats by any means.  But he's got MEAT/BOER written all over him.

I hope it works out for you!!  

PS You can definately get a quality dairy buck for that price...just keep looking. They are out their...and Im sure even much cheaper.  My boy was inexpensive...and his grandparents and parents were blue ribbon milkers!  So they exsist...just keep looking.
Im not that overly excited about papers...I look for healthy and hardy animals.  Health records and care means more to me than regs papers sometimes.   Cuz there is alot of people out their that have beautiful animals that dont register or show!!  Just keep your eyes and ears open.

Good luck!!!


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## Roll farms (Feb 1, 2011)

Shannoniganshens said:
			
		

> You are correct Rolls. I've got my fingers crossed on those "dairy does"   I found the dairy and they do cross with a Boer to their Dairy does and they remember the sale to this woman I am dealing with, it is in fact a Boer x Nubian Buck and the Doe is Nubian x Saanen......So if ya'll don't mind.....what am I going to get out of their kids?  Will they be dairy quality?  I am looking at a papered Nubian buck, with awesome written all over him and his parents, for these "dairy does" I'll be getting, question is....Is it worth it?  I'm in no position to be picky, but how many circles am I going to have to do!!!!


Being only 1/4 boer, the rest 'dairy', they could very well be great milkers.  I have some boers I milk.
My only concern would be udder quality...teat count / size, etc.
Check their little tah tahs before you bring them home.
Boers are notorious for throwing 3, 4, 5, and UP teats.  

Hopefully all the dairy behind them will 'fix' any udder / teat issues the boer might have added in.

Something to consider....If you breed them to your new papered buck, you technically *shouldn't* attempt to register the kids, even as recorded grade.  They don't want any goats with meat blood in the registry.  I don't know if that was your eventual plan (breeding up, on paper) but if it's not, then no worries.


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## Hillsvale (Feb 1, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Shannoniganshens said:
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I agree he's got boer in him... and I would wager the 1/4 boer, he has the structure of a boer but not the bulk (for lack of better words)... if he has more of the various dairy than boer I think the added bulk of boer might be an advantage... however I am no genetics specialist just a lover of boer goats.

Good luck.


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## Budlady (Feb 1, 2011)

hes more then 1/4 boer look at my avatar thats a 100% boer buck thet goat is all boer JMO and hes not worth 250 maybe 100 or less go to the auctions in your area you should be able to find what your looking for for not to much money all animals must have a clean bill of health before beiing auctioned off


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## Hillsvale (Feb 1, 2011)

Budlady said:
			
		

> hes more then 1/4 boer look at my avatar thats a 100% boer buck thet goat is all boer JMO and hes not worth 250 maybe 100 or less go to the auctions in your area you should be able to find what your looking for for not to much money all animals must have a clean bill of health before beiing auctioned off


Oh yours is boer... and very cute I might add... but I think this one has too many subtle differences to be 100%, ears... furrier, the shoulders and hips don't look quite right... I don't know but he's cute too (aren't they all). But I agree he is not worth the 250. a pure boer here can go upwards of 500. plus but I think all our costs are super inflated!


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## Roll farms (Feb 1, 2011)

*She doesn't want to buy him.*

As stated, he's 50% Boer, and 50% Nubian, she confirmed that w/ his original breeder.

She wanted to know if kids sired by him, to a Nubian x saanen doe, would be 'dairy' enough to bother with, or 'too boer'.

The kids she may be getting would be 1/4 Boer...not him.


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## Hillsvale (Feb 1, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> *She doesn't want to buy him.*
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> As stated, he's 50% Boer, and 50% Nubian, she confirmed that w/ his original breeder.
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I am aware that she doesn't want to buy him that she was interested in the value of the kids he throws, I was responding to Budlady on his value... not to mention a teh value of an animal is different to everybody and depends on their purpose. For instance I put a cuteness value on everything I buy....


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## Theykeepmebusy (Feb 1, 2011)

I do love my Boers, never thought I'd own some, but they are the reason I noticed he had Boer, his face made me think of my Boer buck.
 I don't plan on raising any dairy to show or register, just down here, paper means a good bill of health, proper testing is done on the breeders herds, everyone else I've talked to, they want to sell a Nubian w/o papers for $400.00, you ask about testing and you get some line that Texas is clean, then on to the run around and avoiding. 
 I know it will take some time and I am willing to wait to find my perfect milking goats. As we can all see, people go on that you don't know what your talking about around here, very hard to find honest people, as with the Nubian in ?, this woman breeds sheep for 4-H , we made an agreement/trade with a contract to back both ends of us and look, it's already been crossed, LOL, it says that the father is  Nubian and the mother is Nubian x Saanen and that I would be getting ALL Nubian x Saanen does, in exchange for the bull calf, if only one doe is born, then she is to pay me the remaining money for the bulls worth, in that case, the money is doubled, because she took the bull off of my property, she wanted him now and then, then. So we worked out -150 (how much she sells her kids for) for every doe I get, I've had my fingers crossed on at least 2 , hopefully 3, if she gets no does, then we can either re-work the contract for the next kidding season, or I can request $500.00 cash.  It's all on paper, oh I forgot the best part, I am to come get them the day they are born, they will not see or touch their mother and I get a supply of 4 months goats milk to feed them.  She will call me while mother is in labor and I have to be there within 30 min. (time it will take me to get there)  I got myself in a mess, kind of sorta, but I guess it's better than having that bull calf chasing me while I'm doing feed chores.    

You guys know I will be posting pics and asking all kinds of quality questions on them, I am going to take them on and keep my fingers crossed.    lots of pink....lots of pink....2 teats.....2 teats....


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## Theykeepmebusy (Feb 1, 2011)

Hillsvale said:
			
		

> Roll farms said:
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  That's Cute.


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## Roll farms (Feb 1, 2011)

So just for grins, I emailed the buck owner and said, "FYI-I don't think that's a Nubian."

Her reply:
FYI, I have seen his registration papers and been to the farm that he came from, not a boer in sight! Thanks

So OK.  Whatev.


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## aggieterpkatie (Feb 1, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> So just for grins, I emailed the buck owner and said, "FYI-I don't think that's a Nubian."
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> Her reply:
> FYI, I have seen his registration papers and been to the farm that he came from, not a boer in sight! Thanks
> ...


Yeah, because if it's on paper it HAS to be true!


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## Theykeepmebusy (Feb 1, 2011)

Nice!!!!


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## Theykeepmebusy (Feb 1, 2011)




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## Theykeepmebusy (Feb 1, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Shannoniganshens said:
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I did a check, on the Boer does I have, 4 have only 2, then my registered girl has 4, they aren't attached or close to each other, but why does she have 4 and not 2 ? Are they bred like this for a certain reason? Are they useless if she were to have more than 2 kids? Sorry for all those questions, just wondering your opinion on them, to me it's kind of odd. Is this what I want in her and her kids? Will my buck pass this on to my 2 teat doe kids? They are not (Ill lil and Jackson)related, but both came from the same farm.  They breed for 4-H and shows...do I want this trait or not?    :/


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## Roll farms (Feb 1, 2011)

Some boer breeders claim that extra teats are awesome, so that they can feed multiples.

The ABGA is possibly going to change their standards to say, "2 teats are preferred"...which has some breeders up in arms.  They've ignored teat problems for so long that they don't want to have to worry about it now.

4 teats are 'allowed' as long as they're seperated.   My sister paid 250$ 3 yrs ago for a doe w/ 7 TEATS!  7!!!!
When she was in milk you'd squeeze a side of her udder and milk would come out from 3 orifices!  How's a kid going to nurse that?

I started w/ dairy goats, so I just can't convince myself that 4 teats is 'a good thing', no matter how much I try.

I have some boer does w/ extra teats (because I wanted to work on color and couldn't find what I wanted w/ only 2 teats) but I'm only keeping 2 teaters and using 2 teated bucks as much as I can.

It's really just a preference thing w/ me...but I have seen a shifting of the attitudes about multiple teats in the last year or so.  

Did you check his teats?


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## Theykeepmebusy (Feb 1, 2011)

you just taught me something new!!!! I didn't know he had them!!!! All we notice is his "big bongo, bongo's " as my 4 year old calls them!!!! I will check tomorrow.


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## Roll farms (Feb 1, 2011)

If he's got 4, then chances are some of your kids sired by him will, also.
Sometimes breeding 4x2 will 'fix' it...sometimes not.

4 aren't as bad as 'fish' teats or clusters.


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## Theykeepmebusy (Feb 1, 2011)

I have to go educate myself some more , this I did not know, clusters or fish....Thank you for letting me know this.  Yay Goat world!!!!


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## Roll farms (Feb 1, 2011)

http://mbgbc.com/images/udder-structure.jpg


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## Roll farms (Feb 1, 2011)

From USBGA judges handbook:

The does should have a well-formed mammary system. It should have good attachment with no more that two separated functional teats per side. Ideally does should have one functioning teat per side. The bucks should have two large well-formed equal sized testes in a single scrotum. The apex of the scrotum should have a split no longer than 1 inch (2.5 cm). Circumference of the scrotum varies with age. A yearling buck should have a circumference of 10 inches (25. cm) a two year old buck should have a circumference of 12 inches (30.5 cm). Teat structure on bucks should consist of no more that separated teats per side. The ideal is one teat per side.
Slight to Serious Defects
1. Testicles that twist when buck walks
2. Double (2) orifices in a non split teat
Very Serious Defects
1. More than two teats per side on a doe
2. Small or abnormal testicles
3. Scrotal split more than 1 inch (2.5 cm)
Disqualifying Defects
1. More than two teats per side on bucks
2. Split teat with two distinctly separated milk ducts divided less than 75% on bucks/does
3. Bunched or cluster teats on buck/does
The South African Boer goat breed standards given above are complete as written. However, these breed standards may be revised as necessary to adequately describe the true breed characteristics of the Boer as the breed evolves.


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## Theykeepmebusy (Feb 1, 2011)

That's what I was looking for, your awesome, thanks again!!!


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