# getting started, full of questions



## babyelle (Mar 17, 2011)

looking for two does for our new to 4H 7 and 9 year old children.  i have narrowed it down between Nubian, mini Nubian and Nigerian dwarf. eventually they will show in the milking class but until then they will show breed and non milking.  here are my questions...are Nigerians hard to milk? we are beginners are Nubians too big for the small children? which breed is easy to handle? mini Nubian are at the top of my list but hard to find here in Arizona. oh, one last question, can goat and chicken safely share a run? cross contamination a factor?


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## ksalvagno (Mar 17, 2011)

Depends on the Nigerian if they are hard to milk or not. If you get good milking lines, it shouldn't be a problem. But more than anything, it depends on you. See if you can milk a Nigerian before purchasing. The full size dairy goats my be harder for young children to handle. I just had someone purchase Nigerians from me for their children to show for 4H because the Nubians they own are too big for their boys to handle properly and do well in the show.


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## helmstead (Mar 18, 2011)

You might want to check with the 4H leaders.  4H usually goes by ADGA breed standards for the does...so they might not accept Mini-Nubians since ADGA doesn't accept them and therefore there is no breed standard.

For instance, our 4H groups around here will let you show a Mini-Nubian in the dairy wether classes.  But, they won't let you show a Mini-Nubian DOE.

I no longer run my chickens with my goats.  A) chicken feed is a big old no-no for goats, but goats LOVE it and will do pretty much anything to get to it and gorge themselves  B) yep, dirty little chicken feet on water troughs and in feed troughs spread cocci, etc, like mad.  I wouldn't have a huge problem with just adult goats sharing some space (like when the birds free range) but you really shouldn't keep them together all the time.


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## rebelINny (Mar 18, 2011)

I own any of those breeds right now but a Nubian likely going to be difficult for your children to handle. There is a breeder of mini-Alpines in texas that often sells to Arizona customers. She has awesome showing stock and decently priced. If you are interested her site is www.milkmaidranch.com


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 18, 2011)

My Nigerians are not hard to milk. Not even my girl with small teats. However it was hard to milk until I learned that I didn't have to be SO gentle and also I learned how to grab part of the bag as well as the teat and sorta gently work the milk down without pulling on the bag or teat. Once I figured that out milking time went from 1 hour for two, immediately to 10 minutes each. Now I can milk 2 goats, from the time I step outdoors to the time I step back indoors in 15 minutes.


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## RainySunday (Mar 18, 2011)

CrownofThornsNDGoats said:
			
		

> My Nigerians are not hard to milk. Not even my girl with small teats. However it was hard to milk until I learned that I didn't have to be SO gentle and also I learned how to grab part of the bag as well as the teat and sorta gently work the milk down without pulling on the bag or teat. Once I figured that out milking time went from 1 hour for two, immediately to 10 minutes each. Now I can milk 2 goats, from the time I step outdoors to the time I step back indoors in 15 minutes.


I would love to see a picture of your hand placement (pretty pretty please!).  I am getting my two milked in 30 minutes, but not getting it all, because they get cranky.  Faster would be better!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 18, 2011)

I would love to, but unfortunately I have no does in milk right now. 

ETA: If it helps, I actually squeeze the teats with my middle and ring finger. My thumb and pointer finger "cup" the udder, and gently work the milk down. I think in the process I do slightly pull down, but very little. certainly not enough to harm the udder or teat. I squeeze a lot harder then I thought I would, but it's still pretty gentle. I don't think I personally can squeeze them too hard in that position, I am not very strong.

2nd ETA: I'm trying to think about how I do it, and I think actually my pointer finger and thumb aren't doing anything. I do know that my hand is cupping the bottom part of the udder while my middle and ring finger sqeeze the teats, but my other fingers aren't actually cupping the udder, it's the upper part of my hand.


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## RainySunday (Mar 18, 2011)

Thanks, that is helpful.  I'll have to try that tonight. thank you!


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Mar 18, 2011)

G'day NN,(your name is way to long LOL)Years ago when we had milkers,we found that theres a trick to getting to does to let their milk down,if the goat is not enjoying the experience they will hold the milk "up".........................Take some time and watch how a "kid" gets the milk,if at the start you sit "very 'close and even put your head against her side ,with the palm of your hand gently rub along the milk vein and bump the udder before you start on the teats . the doe should raise her stomach up and that is a sign that she is ready to let the milk down...check for any loose hairs on the udder and trim with a little pair of clippers(those cheap home hair cut ones will do)..........Milking is such an enjoyable task,so its best to make it "nice" for goat and milker if you can.

 Hope the above is of some help....................T.O.R.


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