# Goat "herding"?



## Lil-patch-of-heaven

I'm curious about something. The other day I was visiting my "city friends" lol and they wanted to talk a lot about my livestock. I think they are trying to make fun of me lol. 

Anyway, someone asked me about herding goats. What I told them is that so far my goats do better being led, not herded. And that's true. If I want to move them I usually call them and they come. If they don't want to go I usually have to put a leash round their necks and bring them. Last night the buckling being weaned absolutely refused to follow me to the barn and was inspiring a mutiny is 2/3 of the other kids till my llama -- I'm liking her more all the time! -- walked him down with us. She seems to understand moving goats better than I do!

I have used my pup on a leash twice to move them, along with me, in at attemp to herd them. It's slow going because they face him and will only move 1 step at a time. It's good for him but Im worried it stresses the goats. Also dh has taken a stick and waved it similar to how I might drive a flock of geese but again I think maybe that scares them. With geese it's a simpler matter and I don't mind. 

So what's the word on that?  Does anyone "herd" goats? I'm thinking it doesn't suit their makeup?


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## cmjust0

I'm going to give you two words to google, and the rest is up to you.  These two words, once you learn their meaning and how they apply to goats...and to _your _goats, specifically...should give you a much better understanding of why things don't always go the way you think they should go.

Ready?  

Ok, here are your two words:

FLIGHT ZONE.


Go.


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## Mea

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> I'm going to give you two words to google, and the rest is up to you.  These two words, once you learn their meaning and how they apply to goats...and to _your _goats, specifically...should give you a much better understanding of why things don't always go the way you think they should go.
> 
> Ready?
> 
> Ok, here are your two words:
> 
> FLIGHT ZONE.
> 
> 
> Go.


Somehow, combining   Flight Zone ... with Nubians... gave me a far different mental picture than i believe You meant !   


   ( apologies...no hijacking intended)


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## ()relics

I guess occasionally I herd my goats.  When I move them from 1 pasture to another or when they come into or go out of the barn .  My fences aren't all encompassing of my farm so certain situations require movement outside of fences.  That means I either have to hook up the horse trailer and wrestle goats into and out of it OR , as most often the case, I simply open the gate and hope they follow me to the next gate...Left unsaid, I have 3 dogs 2 GSP's and a Weimaraner, these dogs, although they are excellent bird dogs, have been around the goats long enough and obey simple commands well enough to "help" move the goats along....Really I think the dogs make the goats slightly nervous which keeps them bunched up and eager to follow...The dogs are really just following me and the goats, not really herding them...Again my dogs have been around goats their whole lives...Some of my goats think they are dogs, that comes from spending cold nights in the house _with_ the dogs.
       Probably quite a sight though seeing 10 or so goats following me with 3 bird dogs following them across the yard from the barn to the pasture...


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## HeatherM

Our goats are a little too independent to "herd." If you want them to go somewhere, it's easier to just lead them, or I'll let them all lose and make it clear that there is a food incentive to go where ever I want them.  Occasionally one might get out, and in that case our Border Collie herds them back up.  Goats just like to go where ever they think you don't want them


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## Lil-patch-of-heaven

Thanks for the answers everyone!  

Lol sometimes I think the goats DO just want to be where I don't want them. Six goats, two pasture, and sometimes I end up with every single one opposite side of the gate where I want them. I'm learning their dynamics though-- who to move first, etc. 

Food is the best motivator for the lead doe and she's the best motivator for the second doe, etc. Kids just have to be held back or shoved through at times. Though I'm going to HAVE to learn to manage the buckling I bought for breeding. He's already very headstrong and pushy and I won't be able to physically restrain him for long. He's a sweetheart though -- just headstrong. 

Flight zone. Now that was interesting. After reading a while I realize I kind of know that. It's how I used to move ducks. I don't know much about herd dogs but I thought they probably moved accordingto those patterns. It worked on the llama too when she first arrived. I was surprised how intuitive and easy it was to move her. 

It seems tameness is a factor though?  I think that's why I can't herd goats -- mine are too tame except the dam-raised buckling and he's always been the easiest to manage up till weaning is throwing a wrench into the works. 

Interesting they are talking about ruminants and I find ducks are the same. My geese "herded" differently though. Then again, they were also very tame. I raised lots of poultry, but at a couple of months the ducks decide they have no use for me anymore and become ducks. But to the geese it seems I am always "mama goose". Whether I like it or not, lol. At least it keeps them from attacking me when they mature. 

this is a very interesting topic for me. It's becoming less use with the llama too btw as she is becoming tamer. She will tolerate being touched while I'm feeding her. Otherwise she will come very close but needs just a little space. 

Goats seem to have MANY factors affecting their movement. Maybe because they are tame?  Food motivation, habits of where/when I move them, social goat issues and who follows who, me just asking them, perceived danger, and probably many other things I have not thought of. As well as simply what they WANT to do, which seems heavily motivTed by curiousity. 

The dog isn't a good idea I guess, since they are tame to me but not to him so I get a mixed response when working with him. He'd have to be trained independently of the goats to be useful. Unless it turns out he has fantastic instincts. I see SOME herding instinct in him but I seriously doubt he's a natural. I bought him for me anyway and not as a herd dog. He's a gsd btw, and I've worked with many of them. Just not for herding. 

thanks again for the responses. This was interesting.


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## cmjust0

lpoh said:
			
		

> It seems tameness is a factor though?  I think that's why I can't herd goats -- mine are too tame except the dam-raised buckling and he's always been the easiest to manage up till weaning is throwing a wrench into the works.


Winner winner chicken dinner.  

Tameness is why your goats are more easily led than herded.  Tame goats are virtually impossible to herd because herding requires a flight zone, which tame goats don't have.  They don't circle and turn and move like 'wild' goats (or cattle, or sheep, or..) do.

Flight zones are kinda cool sometimes..  My wife and I ran a 'wild' goat back through a 6KV electric fence -- _intentionally_ -- using her flight zone from about 15' away.  Never laid a hand on her.  If you have good handling facilities, flight zones can be really awesome.

For the record, though, something else that's even better -- IMO -- is walking calmly up to a tame goat, straddling its head, administering some kind of medication, letting it go, walking up to the next tame goat, ......


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## Roll farms

90% of our herd are babies....come when called, etc.

There are a few I have to corral occasionally to medicate / trim hooves, etc. 

Then...there's Nissan.
Nissan is a Kiko I bought as a weanling, dam reared....and the darndest critter I've ever seen.  

If I'm just out in the pasture on a walk, she'll come right up to me.  

At feeding time, she'll eat right out of my hand.

But let me enter the barn w/ vaccinations or a bottle of dewormer, and she's *poof* gone the minute my hand touches the doorknob...and it seems like she KNOWS it's her I'm after.

No amount of feed, waiting, trying to fake her out will work.  She'll turn a 1/2 acre pen into 42 acres of thorn trees and water hazards....and will wear out 3 humans trying to catch her.

I'm glad she's a hardy girl, if I had to catch her very often she'd kill me.


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## helmstead

We have a cattle-bred (read: pushy, determined and determined and pushy) Aussie who herds our goats when needed.  He can even move the bucks...and he's an ace at pulling a single goat out and bringing it to us which is helpful when 90% of the goats we've purchased are buck wild.

When moving a large group of them though, we usually just open the gate and shake a feed bucket.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

Mine also have ESP when it comes to vaccinations, hoof trimming, etc.  If I don't need to catch them they're begging treats and scratches.  If I have some actual work to get done, they will run laps until we're swearing...   I have yet to figure out how to effectively fake them out, so I'm pretty sure they're mind readers.  Except the bottle babies- they probably wouldn't run if their lives depended on it!


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## lupinfarm

My goats are *extremely* food motivated  I just shake a feed pan and they'll follow me anywhere LOL. They even hop and skip along the way. Then again we just have the 2 does right now (with the 3rd coming in 12 weeks) and they are leash trained as well, but when they get out I can just shake a feed pan and they'll follow.


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## savingdogs

Mine are much the same as lupinfarm. If I have grain in my hand they will cooperate pretty well. I sometimes lead the more dominant one and the other two follow him.


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## Ashmeade

My goats follow me whereever I go (we have 6).  Worst case though, if further motivation is needed to get them somewhere, grain or the tempting of a treat never fails!

Goats are VERY food-orientated__especially mine!


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## Henrietta23

Mine will do anything for raisins!


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## Hollywood Goats

I can't get my goats to go where I want them to no matter how much food I put out, so I just end up carrying them (they are Nigerian Dwarfs so it is fine)


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## Ariel301

Hollywood Goats said:
			
		

> I can't get my goats to go where I want them to no matter how much food I put out, so I just end up carrying them (they are Nigerian Dwarfs so it is fine)


Hahaha my buckling is that way. He leads, but he is so slow at it and has to stop and sniff every flower and chase every chicken or butterfly, that it could take half an hour to go across the yard. I usually give up and carry him. We will have to change that soon, as he's already 40 pounds at 6 weeks old, and I can't carry him much longer! 

Grain works well for the girls. If I shake a bucket of grain at them, they will follow me anywhere.


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