# Planning my Someday Farm  barn, stall, pens, browsing area..?



## Harbisgirl (Aug 10, 2012)

Hello,
I dont have any animals or housing or ..anything. Just planning and researching right now. We live on 5 wooded acres  we have the back 1.5 acres fenced off separately and I was thinking Id like to use that for livestock. Im trying to figure out what size barn I need to have to accommodate my animals. I dont want too many, just enough for my hubby and I for milk and meat. At the moment I am planning on 2 goats, 2 pigs, 1 donkey and maybe later on well expand to bunnies or ducks or guinea fowl or something. But thats later. So here is my idea, let me know if Ive planned for enough room. Two Nigerian Dwarf does for milk and for eating the massive groves of poison oak on our property - we will sell the kids, a breeding pair of pigs (probably American Guinea Hogs) and keeping 1 or 2 of the offspring for food and selling the rest, and 1 little donkey cuz I heard they are good protectors and we have the occasional coyote, mountain lion and bobcat. Okay, so Im using that as an excuse to have a little donkey  - I think theyre adorable  I was thinking on a 20x15 barn for all of them, split into five or six 5x5 stalls plus a 5x7.5 milking room and a 5x7.5 ft tack room.. 1 stall for the goats to sleep in, 1 for goat kidding/quarantine. 1 stall for pigs to sleep in, 1 for pig birthing/quarantine. 1 stall for donkey. 1 spare for ..whatever. Are the stalls big enough? Since Im getting NDs they wont need too much room. American guinea hogs are fairly small, and Ill be getting a small or mini donkey as well. Is this okay? Oh, for climate  were in zone 9a. We live in California (elevation 2700 ft) it gets upper 90s maybe 100 in the Summer, cold and snowy in the winter but not too arctic  lowest lows into the teens at night.


My questions to the group are : 
 Is the barn size/layout adequate? 
 What would you change/improve? 
 Are these animals friendly and ok (breed wise  barring individual personalities) to be housed together/mingle/browse out on the land together? 
 Will they need separated outdoor pen areas?
 Is 1.5 acres of browsing area sufficient?  I will of course be feeding them hay/alfalfa/grains/supplements to supplement what they cannot browse for and especially when pregnant/in milk. The does will have controlled access to the brush and poison oak on the rest of the 5 acres during most of the year. 

Here is my lame little diagram


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## Harbisgirl (Aug 10, 2012)

Can you guys see my pic? I'm at work and it blocks photobucket pics so half the time I can't see anybodies pics...so I'm not sure if you can see mine


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## ksalvagno (Aug 10, 2012)

The stalls are pretty small. Also, you are going to want doors to go outside for all the animals right out of their stall and not have to run them through the barn to go out to a field.

Horse stalls are usually something like 12x12 or 12x14 which is what you would  need for the donkey. My goats have a 12x24 area in the barn and I have 2 Nigerians and an Alpine mix plus extra space in the barn that I use for kidding stalls. Are the pigs going to be breeding pigs or just ones that you raise up enough to butcher? They do destroy things so you may not even want them in the barn if you are only raising them enough to put into the freezer.

The milk and tack room are probably fine.


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## SheepGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

1. Barn size -- I think it would be easier to build a 16x20 than a 15x20 because sheets of plywood (if that's what you're going to use) are 4' wide x 8' long. Layout -- I wouldn't have stalls. If you just have a big area for all the animals to congregate that would be ideal because they could then choose their favorite spot to lay down.

I assume your putting feed/hay/supplies in the tack room?

2. I would get rid of the stalls. It could get tricky locking them in at night; my sheep in the summer prefer to be out grazing at night and then during the day they stay inside where it's cooler. In the winter, they are out grazing during the day and they come in the barn at night.

3. Don't know as I've never had goats/pigs/donkeys.

4. The goats and the donkey can be housed together, but I'm not sure if hogs could be put in with them. I know a member on here has her hogs with her sheep (except during lambing) so I guess it could be done with goats and hogs.

5. A donkey will need at least 1-2 acres by itself. Each goat will need 1/5-1/2 acre (so 2/5-1 acre total) and I'm not sure about the hogs. Of course it really varies...I'm not familiar with your area or your zone so I don't have a black and white answer for you.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 10, 2012)

You really don't want the hogs in with the goats. The goats could get salmonella from the hogs plus the hogs could get aggressive.


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## Harbisgirl (Aug 10, 2012)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> 1. Barn size -- I think it would be easier to build a 16x20 than a 15x20 because sheets of plywood (if that's what you're going to use) are 4' wide x 8' long. Layout -- I wouldn't have stalls. If you just have a big area for all the animals to congregate that would be ideal because they could then choose their favorite spot to lay down.
> 
> I assume your putting feed/hay/supplies in the tack room?
> 
> ...


Good thinking on building it to suit the plywood sheets  

I love the idea of not having stalls so that they can congregate - didn't know that was an option. I'd make one or two for kidding/quarantine but an communal area would be great.

Even a mini donkey would need 1 full acre?


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## SheepGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

Probably, yes. But if you want a donkey for a guardian, you will have to go standard or mammoth size. A mini wouldn't be too effective against a pack of dogs or coyotes, much less a mountain lion or bobcat. But with predators like those I would go for one or two livestock guardian dogs.


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## Harbisgirl (Aug 10, 2012)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> You really don't want the hogs in with the goats. The goats could get salmonella from the hogs plus the hogs could get aggressive.


That is something to consider - the salmonella. I'm not overly concerned about them being aggressive - respectfully cautious but I don't expect any issues. The person I know who breeds them has the sweetest piggies you've ever seen. They're more like happy dogs. Short little Labradors


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## Harbisgirl (Aug 10, 2012)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> Probably, yes. But if you want a donkey for a guardian, you will have to go standard or mammoth size. A mini wouldn't be too effective against a pack of dogs or coyotes, much less a mountain lion or bobcat. But with predators like those I would go for one or two livestock guardian dogs.


Yeah, true. We have properties around us with ranches and dogs so it's fairly rare but a real threat nonetheless


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Aug 11, 2012)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> Probably, yes. But if you want a donkey for a guardian, you will have to go standard or mammoth size. A mini wouldn't be too effective against a pack of dogs or coyotes, much less a mountain lion or bobcat. But with predators like those I would go for one or two livestock guardian dogs.


*

X2.*


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## Bossroo (Aug 11, 2012)

After farming for over half century in the arrid Golden State for over half a century...   I would  first build at least 5' tall and very strong fences as all goats are preprogrammed to be escape artists. Huge headache !   I would keep  standard size goats ... the dwarf types would't earn their keep. Cute, but otherwise almost useless. My preference would be to raise hair sheep such as Dorpers as they browse more like goats. Also, they are less likely to escape.   As for pigs ... I would provide seperate housing for them as even the most friendly, docile ones will make a tastey snack of any chicken, duck, etc or offspring of other livestock whenever their mood turns for a need for meat.  As for a mini donkey... a total waste of resources. Much better to invest in a good guard dog. If I were to include rabbits, I would build all wire hanging cages to house indivdual rabbits inside a barn as they deed good air circulation and a great need to keep COOL.  As for the barn, I would make at least 2 large loafing areas, at least one small isolation pen for emmergencies or use it to place newborn with it's mother for a short preriod of time.  I would build a seperate barn structure for hay and grain  with plenty of air circulation in case of spontanous cumbustion of hay ( learn how to properly stack hay bales for best air circulation) due to heat buildup.  Have fun...


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## kfacres (Aug 11, 2012)

Harbisgirl said:
			
		

> Hello,
> I dont have any animals or housing or ..anything. Just planning and researching right now. We live on 5 wooded acres  we have the back 1.5 acres fenced off separately and I was thinking Id like to use that for livestock. Im trying to figure out what size barn I need to have to accommodate my animals. I dont want too many, just enough for my hubby and I for milk and meat. At the moment I am planning on 2 goats, 2 pigs, 1 donkey and maybe later on well expand to bunnies or ducks or guinea fowl or something. But thats later. So here is my idea, let me know if Ive planned for enough room. Two Nigerian Dwarf does for milk and for eating the massive groves of poison oak on our property - we will sell the kids, a breeding pair of pigs (probably American Guinea Hogs) and keeping 1 or 2 of the offspring for food and selling the rest, and 1 little donkey cuz I heard they are good protectors and we have the occasional coyote, mountain lion and bobcat. Okay, so Im using that as an excuse to have a little donkey  - I think theyre adorable  I was thinking on a 20x15 barn for all of them, split into five or six 5x5 stalls plus a 5x7.5 milking room and a 5x7.5 ft tack room.. 1 stall for the goats to sleep in, 1 for goat kidding/quarantine. 1 stall for pigs to sleep in, 1 for pig birthing/quarantine. 1 stall for donkey. 1 spare for ..whatever. Are the stalls big enough? Since Im getting NDs they wont need too much room. American guinea hogs are fairly small, and Ill be getting a small or mini donkey as well. Is this okay? Oh, for climate  were in zone 9a. We live in California (elevation 2700 ft) it gets upper 90s maybe 100 in the Summer, cold and snowy in the winter but not too arctic  lowest lows into the teens at night.
> 
> 
> ...


you'll need two hog pens, one for each pig. I don't know anyone that runs boars and sows together, accept for during breeding-- and especially not during farrowing, or the raising of the litter.


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## Sandstone-Minis (Aug 15, 2012)

I'd just like to add NEVER trust a pig. I don't care how sweet it seems, or if you bottle fed it from a day old, of if it was raised with certain animals. Pigs can be very dangerous, even when raised with the best of care. Always err on the side of caution with them!


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Aug 16, 2012)

My suggestion, wisdom learned from past experiences...build bigger and with more room then you think you would ever need.  Once you get "xyz" animal, chances are VERY, VERY, GOOD that you will end up with more animals than originally intended. Enjoy this planning stage.  The hard work comes later, but in my opinion is worth every bit of energy and money you spend!


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## Catahoula (Aug 16, 2012)

Stubbornhillfarm said:
			
		

> My suggestion, wisdom learned from past experiences...build bigger and with more room then you think you would ever need.  Once you get "xyz" animal, chances are VERY, VERY, GOOD that you will end up with more animals than originally intended. Enjoy this planning stage.  The hard work comes later, but in my opinion is worth every bit of energy and money you spend!


X2...I am learning from my mistakes... We are in the process of expanding.


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## eweinHiscare (Sep 11, 2012)

Bossroo said:
			
		

> After farming for over half century in the arrid Golden State for over half a century...   I would  first build at least 5' tall and very strong fences as all goats are preprogrammed to be escape artists. Huge headache !   I would keep  standard size goats ... the dwarf types would't earn their keep. Cute, but otherwise almost useless. My preference would be to raise hair sheep such as Dorpers as they browse more like goats. Also, they are less likely to escape.   As for pigs ... I would provide seperate housing for them as even the most friendly, docile ones will make a tastey snack of any chicken, duck, etc or offspring of other livestock whenever their mood turns for a need for meat.  As for a mini donkey... a total waste of resources. Much better to invest in a good guard dog. If I were to include rabbits, I would build all wire hanging cages to house indivdual rabbits inside a barn as they deed good air circulation and a great need to keep COOL.  As for the barn, I would make at least 2 large loafing areas, at least one small isolation pen for emmergencies or use it to place newborn with it's mother for a short preriod of time.  I would build a seperate barn structure for hay and grain  with plenty of air circulation in case of spontanous cumbustion of hay ( learn how to properly stack hay bales for best air circulation) due to heat buildup.  Have fun...


Bossroo, did you mean just the Dorpers browse more like goats...or hair sheep in general ?

uh oh!?...I got some Katahdin hair sheep because I was tired of repairing trashed fences and trying to keep the hot wire hot...all damaged in an ongoing fashion by my goats.

I have "farm fence" with the 6 inch squares, will the hair sheep try to stand on them and squash the fence down like the goats did ?

Will the hair sheep strip the bark off trees.. Arizona Cypress (aka California Sapphire Cypress), Thuja Giant ?
  I haven't seen them go after the trees yet because I have a lot of grass.  But will they ruin the trees in winter when the grass is sparse ?

  Yours is the first post I've seen about sheep that browse more like goats and I'm a bit alarmed at the thought. !


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## Bossroo (Sep 11, 2012)

Dorpers ( developed in Africa by crosssing the Dorset ram on Arabian fat rumped ewes [ a desert sheep] )  will brouse on brush as well as graze grass... this trait allows them to be more efficient on rough feed in converting it  to meat.  All sheep will somewhat brouse.  Dorpers tend to be much more docile than many breeds of sheep and not be true escape artists like goats or even like many wool breeds are .  As for the 6" square fencing,  any sheep, goat, calf, horse, pigs, etc. will use the wire as a step ladder in an attempt to reach a food source. However sheep are not nearly as bad as goats.    I don't know of any herbivore that will not brouse and/ or rub on trees/ shrubs at some time during the year.  My suggestion is to fence off the trees with good fencing.  As for individual pasture trees, one could eather fence them seperately so that no animal can reach the tree,   or loosely wrap the trunks ( to avoid girdling the tree as it grows)   with chicken/ welded wire/ small guage field fencing to a height higher than the subject animals could reach when standing on their hind legs.  I hope this helps ...


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## Fernwood Hollow (Sep 29, 2012)

Always build bigger than you think you need.  I have learned this the hard way with weird add ons later.


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