# EMERGENCY-Lost one doe overnight, another going downhill fast..



## bbredmom (May 29, 2012)

Our queen tali is lame in her right rear leg today, like she hardly uses it, has gooey poo, and no appetite. The only change has been we moved her buckling (who we thought was weaned) in with the big boys yesterday. Another doe, butterscotch, also has gooey poo, minimal appetite, and was separated from her baby yesterday, but is not lame. All the does milked fine this morning, no signs of mastitis.

I'm guessing the poo is from seperation stress, and the appetite. But the lameness is throwing us off. She was perfectly fine last night when we put her up. Any ideas?

We have the babies back with the mommas until we can figure this out.


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## southernstardowns (May 29, 2012)

I can't help with the lameness, that is odd. As far as eating goes, I put some sweet feed on top of the usual feed on occasion when my goats seem like they are getting tired of their feed.


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## bbredmom (May 29, 2012)

I suppose her and the mother mommas could have gotten rowdy last night and she got hurt that way.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 29, 2012)

I suspect the lameness is from an injury and the gooey poo is from a parasite bloom. I have seen more than one time a doe that was separated from her kid start scouring a day or two later from the stress. I would consider a fecal, and/or worming and I wouldn't overlook coccidiosis it is very opportunistic when it comes to a stressed out goat.


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## bbredmom (May 29, 2012)

Well the lameness is gone this afternoon, and her poo is more solid and happy colored..even has individual berries formed, just all clumped together.

I think it was the separation. I'll keep an eye on her, and if it doesn't continue to get better, run a fecal tomorrow.


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

We lost her last night. I don't understand, she was doing better. I've never had to deal with coccidiosis in my goats before, I didn't know it could move so fast. 

I've put a call into the only goat vet around, but she only works part time. I've got my remaining doe isolated with fresh water and green leaves, but her poo is pudding. What can I do? The only farm stores we have are TSC.


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## jodief100 (May 30, 2012)

For the runny poo: Scour Halt, also called Scour Check.  It is labeled for pigs.  It should come in a pump bottle.  One pump per 10 lbs of body weight. 2 x a day for 5 days

For cocci:  Di-Methox if you can get it.  If not, our TS carries sulmet tablets for cows.  Give 1/2 of a tablet, by bolus gun.  Buy one if you don't have one, preferably a metal one and not the plastic. 1 x a day for 5 days

Do both ASAP!

Electrolytes and probios are helpful.  Give them as suplimentary care.


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

What about an asprin gel to help with the fever?


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> What about an asprin gel to help with the fever?


IF she has a fever she needs antibiotics.  Penn G at the rate of 1 cc per 15 lbs given as an injection, twice a day. 

We often give Penn G, if they are weak and scouring bad, we have found it really helps with the scours, along with sulfa-dimethoxine or corid treatments, plus scour halt. 

I prefer sulfa-dimethoxine over corid, but if all you can find is corid I would use that.  Sulmet and albon are other options. All of them need to be given orally for 5 days.


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## Roll farms (May 30, 2012)

I'd probably also give her a B vitamin injection (1cc per 20#) IM and 6-8cc of red cell orally.

I'd have a fecal ran ASAP.

Good luck!


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

Ok they didn't have the pump, but they had scour tablets for cows. I did some googling on dosage, and I says one a day for five days. I ALS,o got the summer tablets, and a gun. I went ahead and got the asprin gel. She did have a fever, so I gave her 5cc (4x the horse dose) and her fever went down within 30 minutes. I'll need to get some syringes and needles and will start the pen g this afternoon

Also got electrolytes to add to her water. She isn't dehydrated, and is nibblng at dry hay and weeds from the garden.

I had no idea coccidia (if thats what it is) could be this fast. I feel so stupid. And like a bad goat momma.


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

You are not a bad goat momma.

Goats seem to do this.........they get just a little puny and then.......well, it gets a little crazy.

  Your doing just fine


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

It's just been a thought year. We went for is long without anyone getting sick or injured, them we lost our littlest doe in childbirth, one of the babies to a staph infection in a freak broken leg, and now our healthiest and best milker gone. These are all rescue goats, so I kow that may have something to do with it.

And can I rant for a second about people who don't live on, work on,nor even been on a farm judging us when a farm animal gets sick and dies? They think it's so easy to just take a critter to a vet, and don't understand why there isn't always a bet available for farm animals. And if there isn't, well then I should find my animals new homes, ebcause I'm irresponsible.

Whew. Sorry.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2012)




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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

I hear you.

We've got some city folk that have moved into the neighborhood to enjoy the country life........lol, they are clueless.  One FREAKED out when she showed up to find me killing chickens for the freezer behind the house.

Another freaked out that we euth'ed a calf after it was torn up by a dog several years ago.  Just take it to the vet she says.......calf was torn UP, would have cost thousands to save a bull calf that was destined for the auction.  

I get frustrated because so many times people think that a farm is either a) a warm fuzzy experience where the animals all live happily ever after as spoiled and coddled pets or B) filthy nasty situations full of abuse and neglect (for example, the neighbor who is appalled that I dont feed grain in the summer months, forcing those poor animals to forage and eat off the ground)


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## lilroo (May 30, 2012)

Hi everyone I use DE in my feed everyday, knock on wood it is fabulous stuff. Even DE in a little taste of grain for my boys big and small. Bucks can't get alot of grain so a little treat of grain with DE in it. There are many types of worms that goat contract. All wormers only work for a while, and parisites get used to them whereas worms never get used to DE, it cuts them and they dry out and die. Food grade DE. I also use DE to dust on the goats and other animals around the farm to rid of other pests, such as fleas, ticks etc on dogs and cats and Oh yes chickens too. Lice have no chance on the goats with a dusting a couple times a week during lice outbreaks in fall and spring.

 Now yes it is important to get your goats back on their feet in anyway you can when there is an outbreak or saddly death in the herd, this is what I do for prevention, In 3 years I've not needed to see a vet for anything serious. good luck. lilroo goat lover,,,


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## jodief100 (May 30, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> Ok they didn't have the pump, but they had scour tablets for cows. I did some googling on dosage, and I says one a day for five days. I ALS,o got the summer tablets, and a gun. I went ahead and got the asprin gel. She did have a fever, so I gave her 5cc (4x the horse dose) and her fever went down within 30 minutes. I'll need to get some syringes and needles and will start the pen g this afternoon
> 
> Also got electrolytes to add to her water. She isn't dehydrated, and is nibblng at dry hay and weeds from the garden.
> 
> I had no idea coccidia (if thats what it is) could be this fast. I feel so stupid. And like a bad goat momma.


You are doing your best.  You are a good goat momma.  Goats are a learning experience and no one is an expert.  Scours can take down a goat FAST. 

I recomend getting the scour-chek to have on hand.  It is my "go-to"  for scours and works quite well.  My TS carries it but not all do.

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/spectogard-scour-chek/camid/LIV/cp/0026107/

Please keep us posted, we are all wishing for the best and hope your doe gets better.


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## Chirpy (May 30, 2012)

I use DE too and also haven't had any issues with my goats in those areas.

However, even goats that are taken care of in the absolute best way can get sick or hurt.  Sometimes things just happen with our animals - no fault of anybody's.  

I'm praying that you are able to get your second doe past this crises quickly.   You've gotten great advice from very knowledgeable people here.   Look at the bright side... you now have experience to help others in the future.


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

Thanks everyone. We had a fire two years ago and lost 10 of our 11 goats. I actually had someone day to me, when my baby girl broke her leg "whats going on over there? Didn't you learn Anything from the fire? Maybe you shouldn't have goats." and ever since then I feel like this spotlight is on me in regards to my farm.

And now on top of this, we will need to purchase a goat in milk for our business. We have enough frozen to last a while, but it's an eventuality I'm not looking forward to.


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## jodief100 (May 30, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone. We had a fire two years ago and lost 10 of our 11 goats. I actually had someone day to me, when my baby girl broke her leg "whats going on over there? Didn't you learn Anything from the fire? Maybe you shouldn't have goats." and ever since then I feel like this spotlight is on me in regards to my farm.
> 
> And now on top of this, we will need to purchase a goat in milk for our business. We have enough frozen to last a while, but it's an eventuality I'm not looking forward to.


What a dumb thing to say.  Like they have only had to take thier own child to the doctor once in thier lifetime- becasue they learned how to prevent EVERYTHING from the first visit!

Fires happen, injuries happen, illnesses happen.  Some we can prevent, others we can't.....life goes on.   We live, we learn and sometimes it hurts but that is the way of things.  Life has risks and life isn't fair.  

You are doing the right thing, asking for help and learning form others experience-  Don't let some ignorant fool get you down.  

So sorry about the situation, a doe in milk is going to be expensive........


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

She is panting heavily, and drooling. I've moved her into the vegetable garden (I'll happily sacrifice some peppers) in the hope she will eat. What is going on?!?


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

I think she has frothy bloat. I've given her some vegetable oil and bisquick (all I have in the house is baking powder, and bisquick has baking soda in it) and I've been making her walk and rubbing/bouncing her belly. She burped/puked once.


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)




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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

Her esophagus isn't obstructed because she is swallowing the water I'm giving her. I was worried one of the pellets may have gotten stuck. I'm rubbing and walking her as much as possible, but nothing is happening. Her breathing is still heavy, and I hear a lot of sloshing.

I don't know what to do.


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

If you cant call a vet.........see if a neighbor has some baking soda and drench her with pure baking soda.

Other than that keep her walking, rub/pat hard............


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

My vet is in Kansas, and I have no real neighbors. I'm guessing baking powder wouldn't work?

I'll have hubby get some on the way home, but it's going to be a bit. I just don't feel like I can leave her long enough to go into town.


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

No baking powder wont work.

Hmmm. I'm thinking..........


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

Is her left side bulging? does her belly feel hard and tight?

You can try a tablespoon of powdered laundry detergent mixed in a couple ounces of water.


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

If I massage and pat hard, she starts getting out of breath and drooling again, and it sounds like wheezing. If I stop, she at least stops drooling and wheezing. Right now we are both taking a break-she's leaning against a tree standing up. And I'm leaning against a fence in tears.

My MIL who has had goats for 20 years, says she will take a large gauge, long needle and stab it into the stomach. It allows the air to escape without opening a large wound and risking peritonitis. Anyone else ever try this?


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

Both sides are bulging, and her stomach is distended.

We use liquid detergent, because we have hard water and the powder doesn't dissolve well.

She has not had a BM in a few hours either.


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

I've never done it......I know that for it to work you have to be pretty precise in where you hit them.

Is her belly tight?


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

Oh sorry, yes, belly is tight on both sides.

She is standing on her own, and making little grungy noises when she exhales.

And her baby is trying to help me type this, of course.


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

Do you have milk of magnesia?

How much oil did you give?

Do you have powdered laundry detergent?


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

No MOM, 1/3 cup, and no powdered detergent. Husband has left work early and is bringing me some baking soda as we speak.

This site says I can use dishwater liquid deferment. I have dawn, think that would be ok?

http://www.infovets.com/healthysmrm/c078.htm


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

Go ahead and give some more oil.............another 1/3 cup.  

Get her walking............

I'll stay on with you for awhile.  I'm trying to get you someone more experienced..........

  I'm sorry I know this is hard.  We've got to get that bloat taken care of, it sounds like it is starting to suffocate her.


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> No MOM, 1/3 cup, and no powdered detergent. Husband has left work early and is bringing me some baking soda as we speak.
> 
> This site says I can use dishwater liquid deferment. I have dawn, think that would be ok?
> 
> http://www.inquisitr.com/244626/hac...i-swear-this-was-the-start-of-a-romero-movie/


To be blunt, at this point, I'd be willing to try anything.  Go on and give it to her. (and your link took me to a site about throwing guts! ???)


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

Eeee wrong link! Try again..


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

I'd go ahead and give her about 20 mls of detergent,then the baking soda as soon as hubby gets home (i'd start with about 2 tablspoons in about 3 ounces of water)

Do you have a tube that you can pass into her stomach?

Also, with the calves, I will often times stick my finger down their throat and gag them.......this will get some air out at times.

how is she breathing now?


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

It's worse, and she can't walk anymore. She keeps falling down.

Eta: I was able to tube down her throat, and that seemed to help some. And I already gave her 20cc of dawn. Luckily I do have a drench gun. Although I feel like I have nothing else...

How do I give her the baking soda?


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

Try to get some of the dishwash detergent in her.......


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

and put something under her so that her front end is elevated..........

if you can get her up, rub her belly and lower throat to see if she can pass some of the gas.


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

I know this is hard.  Your doing fine.

Hang in there.


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

I' m hoping that your hubby got there, so your not dealing with this by yourself anymore.

I'll keep a check on you, let me know how things are going when you can....

I'll pm you my phone number, if you need to call..........


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

Ok got a tablespoon of baking soda and water down her,no have her in the milking stand to keep her front end elevated, and almost as soon as I gave her the BS she started trying to get air up. I'm rubbing as hard as I can


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

I sent my phone number, if you want to call.


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

She just died.


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## terrilhb (May 30, 2012)

I am so sorry for what you have gone through and your loss. My prayers are with you.


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## daisychick (May 30, 2012)

Oh No, so sorry you lost her.         I have been helplessly watching this thread and hoping for the best.  I wish I had more knowledge and could of helped.


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

I"m so sorry.

That was a terrible ordeal for you to go thru, but you did a wonderful job in keeping  your cool.

Your a good goat momma..............


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## bonbean01 (May 30, 2012)

Oh...I'm so very sorry 

Red, you are wonderful...just wanted to tell you that...all your advice, sending your phone number...staying in there and having ideas of what to try...so glad you are on this forum!!!


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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

I lost my Hoover one year ago tonight.  

I know how it feels bbred...........I'm crying with you.


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## bbredmom (May 30, 2012)

Thank you redtail for taLking to me. I gave her the second dose of BS, and she started thrashing about, and went limp.  I don't know what I did wrong. I feel completely at fault for being unprepared for bloat. Or coccidia, neither of which I've had to deal with in a long, long time, because I normally have safeguards in place.

I feel like giving up.


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## terrilhb (May 30, 2012)

Oh bbredmom from what I have read you did nothing wrong. I know it is hard but you did everything you could do. I am so sorry this happened. You are a fantastic goat mommy. You did what you could and you went looking for help. Please don't blame yourself.


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## Roll farms (May 30, 2012)




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## redtailgal (May 30, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> Thank you redtail for taLking to me. I gave her the second dose of BS, and she started thrashing about, and went limp.  I don't know what I did wrong. I feel completely at fault for being unprepared for bloat. Or coccidia, neither of which I've had to deal with in a long, long time, because I normally have safeguards in place.
> 
> I feel like giving up.


Nope, sorry honey. There is no giving up.

You didnt do anything wrong. Things happen and they suck sometimes and they always happen when we are the least prepared.  Bloat is a terrible thing to watch, but you did everything you could.  

Hold your head up.  Your gonna be just fine.


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## terrilhb (May 30, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> bbredmom said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


X2


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## elevan (May 30, 2012)

terrilhb said:
			
		

> redtailgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


x3

I'm so sorry you lost her


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## redtailgal (May 31, 2012)

I just re-read this thread, and I am wondering if there is something in your pasture that is causing this.

Have you done a walkthru and ID'ed all the plantlife that your goats have access too?


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## jodief100 (May 31, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> I just re-read this thread, and I am wondering if there is something in your pasture that is causing this.
> 
> Have you done a walkthru and ID'ed all the plantlife that your goats have access too?


I had wondered that same thing.   My deepest sympathy on your loss.  It is NOT your fault!


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## Pearce Pastures (May 31, 2012)

I am so so sorry.  You should be proud of how you handled this.  I know your heart must be breaking right now and we all wish we could make you feel better.  If you do want to check out your pasture and have a camera handy, maybe snap pics and we could help you ID them too just in case there is something that may have brought this on.


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

Unfortunately we are in a severe drought right now, so there really isn't anything in my pastures for them to eat. They are on almost all hay, and the occasional oak leaves that fall fr the tress, which they've been eating all their lives.

Could a snake bite have caused this? 

Another possibility is they changed the formula of the grain, which we all know manufacturers will do. We just bought a new bag Sunday...we only give them grain on the milking stand.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> Unfortunately we are in a severe drought right now, so there really isn't anything in my pastures for them to eat. They are on almost all hay, and the occasional oak leaves that fall fr the tress, which they've been eating all their lives.
> 
> Could a snake bite have caused this?
> 
> Another possibility is they changed the formula of the grain, which we all know manufacturers will do. We just bought a new bag Sunday...we only give them grain on the milking stand.


Did the grain seem different?  or do you know for sure they changed the formula?  

what about your hay source? Same hay that you have been feeding?   Do they get free-choice hay all the time?


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

I don't know about the grain, I'll go look at it today. I'm just thinking of all possibilities.

Same hay (big round bale) they've had for a while now, but all the goats eat off of it, and only these two got sick. It's not moldy, up off the ground, and inside the barn. Yes free choice hay since they are in milk. Or were.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

Is anyone else acting sick?


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

No everyone else is fine. Our remaining doe actually acted better this morning about getting on the stand and being milked. No one has gooey poo, including the four babies. The boys are happy and peeing everywhere.

It's very strange.

I'm really wondering now if it could have been snakebite. I have seen a copperhead, but it got away before I could grab the gun. I don't normally kill snakes, but this one was big and too close to the barn. This was a couple of weeks ago.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> No everyone else is fine. Our remaining doe actually acted better this morning about getting on the stand and being milked. No one has gooey poo, including the four babies. The boys are happy and peeing everywhere.
> 
> It's very strange.
> 
> I'm really wondering now if it could have been snakebite. I have seen a copperhead, but it got away before I could grab the gun. I don't normally kill snakes, but this one was big and too close to the barn. This was a couple of weeks ago.


I would assume that you would see an area that is severally swollen with a snake bite. But I am no expert. Personally, to me it sounds like overeating disease brought on by the stress of weaning. May I ask your vaccination schedule with CD & T?


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

They were due for their yearlys the end of June.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> They were due for their yearlys the end of June.


There symptoms indicate overeating disease. 

This is taken form a website and is about overeating disease. 
"Sudden loss of appetite. Depression and a drunken appearance. signs of stomach pain, such as kicking at their belly, laying on their sides, crying out. As it progresses the animal becomes unable to stand and lies on side making paddling movements. High temperature. Very watery diarrhea"


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

Oh no. But I thought the CDT shots were good for a year? I'll go ahead and give everyone a booster.

By what could they have over eaten on? Hay? They've had free choice hay all their lives.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

A lot of people who show vaccinate every 6 months, because the yearly vaccination is not enough. Goats are very prone to this disease, especially during times of stress, such as showing, transporting or weaning. 

also if they had a coccidiosis bloom at the same time it may have worked against them, I have personally had a  lot of problems with coccidiosis blooms right after weaning. 

This is all just my opinion, I am no expert.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> Oh no. But I thought the CDT shots were good for a year? I'll go ahead and give everyone a booster.
> 
> By what could they have over eaten on? Hay? They've had free choice hay all their lives.


Overeating disease really doesn't work that way, It really doesn't mean they over ate. It is a certain bacteria that multiplies in the stomach from stressful situations. 

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0089/


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

I was not aware of the 6 month thing, I will step up and do that now. 

It's strange that speedy our remaining doe wasn't even phased by her baby being apart. But she's pretty laid back.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

True, goats that are being pushed hard with show feeds and aren't getting enough roughage are more prone to getting over eating disease, but it doesn't really mean they over ate. It is a condition that adds stress to their system, The over abundance of sugar in the grain can make them more acceptable in this instance, that is why show people vaccinate twice. We vaccinate all our show wethers 3 times before they go to the fair, twice as a kid and then 5 weeks or so before the show as another booster, Normally this is around 6 months of age. 

You may also wish to change your vaccination program and vaccinate you does right before they kid, they way they have a higher titer level when they kid and are weaned from their kids. 

Again, this is all a guess on my part.


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

That's all very good advice, thank you.

What age do you vaccinate your kids? I've heard that the shots don't take before 12 weeks, but I know a lot of people go ahead and vaccinate at 8 then 12 again. I've always done it at 12 and 16 weeks.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

We only vaccinate our adult does one time a year, but we vaccinate when we think they are 4 months pregnant, But I also make sure they have all been vaccinate for the year, before the year is up, so some does will get two vaccinations for the year if they are kidding with the main group. I will vaccinate them with the main group and again when I think they are 4 months pregnant. Hope that made sense.  

I am just thinking you were getting near the end of the year and perhaps the titer levels just weren't high enough to over come a stressfull situation. 

I would also treat your herd for coccidiosis, or have fecals done on a couple of them.  Making sure you request that they check for coccidiosis as well as the other parasites.   

Try to take a deep breath and not blame yourself. This farming stuff can be heart breaking. Hang in there.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

We vaccinate our kids at 4 weeks and then at 8 weeks, because we castrate at 8 weeks.  I always recommend people buying new goats from us, vaccinate their kids again at 6 months and then one time a year for sure after that. But if they show their goat, then twice a year. 
Since I recommend they vaccinate their does a month before they kid, I will suggest they give them a vaccination at a year, and then again a month before they are due to kid, since most people are kidding out their yearlings before they turn two years of age. We recommend they kid out their yearlings at 15 to 18 months of age, but not in the middle of the summer.


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

I have my own microscope, can I try to run my own fecal? I don't mind paying for it, but It will take my vet a few days to vet back to me.

It is heartbreaking at times, but also very beautiful. Anytime I see a momma watching the babies, it always warms me inside.


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

We don't breed any does before they hit a year, and our babies are always born between January and march. I'd rather the doe be giving birth under a heat lamp without flies and bugs, than in the middle of Arkansas summer (temps over 100 most days) with bugs all in the bloody mess. And i think it makes stronger kids because they get used to the cold early on.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> I have my own microscope, can I try to run my own fecal? I don't mind paying for it, but It will take my vet a few days to vet back to me.
> 
> It is heartbreaking at times, but also very beautiful. Anytime I see a momma watching the babies, it always warms me inside.


yes, people do their own fecals, I never have, so I am not much help there. 

I would research it, do a search on here and on the internet, and then start a new thread under diseases to ask about doing your own fecals. I know there are some people on her that doe them.


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## redtailgal (May 31, 2012)

I do my own fecals.  It's not as easy as one may think, so I'd suggest the first couple times you do one, you verify your findings by  having the vet run a fecal also.  For example, brown stomach worms and barber pole worms look similar..........and they both can be mistaken for an air bubble.  It takes practice.

I'm not convinced it was OED........the signs and symptoms just dont match up for me, but boosting your vaccination program wont hurt. 

 I'd take a serious look at that grain...........With two does getting so sick so close together, I think it was something they ate or some NASTY virus that they gave one another (deer passing thru the pasture can give sickness to the livestock).

Just to be on the safeside,  I'd go into town today and get a large box of baking soda, and I'd check at the farm store for a product called "Bloat-ease" and get 3-4 bottles (they are small and cheap).

I'll be ordering myself an adult size tube feeding system today, to have on hand in case I ever have a case of bloat that bad.

With a snakebite, you'd see very localized, very intense and sudden swelling and the site of the bite would be incredibly painful for the goat, defintately not a snakebite.

Spider bites, esp if there are multiple spider bites, could cause severe GI upset and (I think) could throw one into a bloat easily.  I'd check their sleeping area.

With two of them getting sick, it would be nice to find the cause, but at this point, it's really a guessing game.

Oh, and I'm so proud of you,bbred, for the way you are "getting on with it".  It's a new day!


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## jodief100 (May 31, 2012)

You said you are in a drought and there is not much in the pasture for them to eat.  I would go through and make note of anything that is there.  Goats usually don't poison themselves because they tend to aviod the plants that are dangerous.  With the brouse being sparse, they may have eaten something that under normal circumstances they wouldn't.  

I realy hope you can find out what happened.  This is so sad, if you can figure it out it would be so helpful not just for you but the rest of us too.  

Glad to see you are handling it well and taking care of things.


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

Well, moping about forever wont take care of my other babies, and I need to make sure this doesn't happen in the future. And since Butterscotch's babys was still nursing for comfort, I'll need to keep a special eye on her, so she doesn't get stress poo.

Its hard on both of us, but especially on my husband when he has to dig a grave. His stepfather growing up as punishment would make him dig a hole and lay down in it for hours, telling him it was his grave if he didn't behave. Horrible, horrible man. 

Anyway....

I actually am looking forward to trying my own fecals- I'm a biologist and always enjoyed the microscope labs in school. But I'll definitely double check with vet.

We do have tarantulas on the property, and wolf spiders. I've got the momma pen closed off right now, The babies are in a separate pen and Speedy is staying with the boys at night (our buck has an Olor, so no worries about unexpected breeding) so she isn't so lonely. I dont think Butterscotch was her sister, but they did grow up together, and she misses her. We are going to do a deep cleaning this afternoon and put down fresh straw.

I'm going to look at the grain this afternoon. I didn't buy it, and hubby may have bought the wrong kind, who knows. These things happen. We do have deer in abundance.

Baking soda is on the checklist for sure. We have to go to the grocery store anyway, so no worries. 

Where do ya'll order you tubes from? The only ones around here are for horses and cattle, and they seem much too big.

Husband and I talked about it, and I think we are going to wait until the fall to buy another dairy goat. It just too hot right now to move a goat, I think it would stress them. Speedy gives us enough milk for now, and my MIL always has extra frozen she will give us. And it will give us time to save up for a quality goat. I'd like a Nubian/Boer Cross. That's what our buck is, and he's just about the sturdiest animal I know (Knock on wood).


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## redtailgal (May 31, 2012)

I intend to order this:

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/automatic-syringe/camid/LIV/cp/0032008/cn/330/

It's not exactly what I was looking for, but I think it would serve the purpose of allowing gas to escape.  

If that doesnt work, I'll go to the local pet shop and get some aquarium tubing and make what I am looking for.

I dont think that tarantulas and wolf spiders could have cause this.  

I love a nubian/boer.........I am a TOTAL sucker for ears.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

I for sure vote for the nubian/boer cross.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2012)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> You said you are in a drought and there is not much in the pasture for them to eat.  I would go through and make note of anything that is there.  Goats usually don't poison themselves because they tend to aviod the plants that are dangerous.  With the brouse being sparse, they may have eaten something that under normal circumstances they wouldn't.
> 
> I realy hope you can find out what happened.  This is so sad, if you can figure it out it would be so helpful not just for you but the rest of us too.
> 
> Glad to see you are handling it well and taking care of things.


That is a good point.


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

Ok we will go thru both pastures today after we clean out the momma stall. 

If I had been in the right state of mind, I would have done a necropsy (I used to work for a vet, so I've assisted before), but I just wasn't up to it emotionally.


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## redtailgal (May 31, 2012)

Excellent point, Jodie.

If you dont know what something is, bbred, take a pic and post it......someone here will know.  

I would LOVE to figure out what caused this, partially from curiosity, but mostly for the protection of the rest of your herd.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 31, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> Excellent point, Jodie.
> 
> If you dont know what something is, bbred, take a pic and post it......someone here will know.
> 
> I would LOVE to figure out what caused this, partially from curiosity, but mostly for the protection of the rest of your herd.


*

X2, I have been following this thread from day 1 and I just wanted to say that I am very sorry for your loss. 

Being new to goats and researching all the different problems that can arise I am also curious as to what it was. *


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

LOL, I just realized my screen name isn't accurate anymore. I used to have Black Breasted Red Bantams, but I got out of the banty business.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 31, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> LOL, I just realized my screen name isn't accurate anymore. I used to have Black Breasted Red Bantams, but I got out of the banty business.


*
LOL I was wondering what it meant.  You could ask them to change it, maybe they would!*


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## Pearce Pastures (May 31, 2012)

LOL  x2 I read it as "BE BRED MOM" and wondered what that meant....thought maybe you were being hopeful with your goat breeding endeavors.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 31, 2012)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> LOL  x2 I read it as "BE BRED MOM" and wondered what that meant....thought maybe you were being hopeful with your goat breeding endeavors.


*
Haha me too.*


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## bbredmom (May 31, 2012)

Lol no that's one part of goat raising we've never had a problem with. Even does that are supposedly sterile get preggers on my farm. I swear my barn is over and ancient fertility rite festival.


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## jodief100 (May 31, 2012)

bbredmom said:
			
		

> LOL, I just realized my screen name isn't accurate anymore. I used to have Black Breasted Red Bantams, but I got out of the banty business.


Thats fine- I am not jodief anymore either- it is JodieM.


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## bonbean01 (May 31, 2012)

Here I thought Bbredmom meant YOU were pregnant...


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## babsbag (Jun 1, 2012)

I am sorry you lost your goats, they can sure be hard on us.You gave it your best shot and you should be proud of your efforts.

I lost one to bloat a few weeks ago. It was a hot day, she took a long drink of water, let her baby nurse for a few minutes, made a pitiful noise and died. It was literally that quick. When she was taking her long drink I looked at her and thought she looked pretty bloated and made a note to keep a close eye on her during chores. I never had a chance. She was a huge fat goat that I had only owned for a few weeks. Everyone thought she was going to kid with quads, she had one, and still looked like there should be 3 more.

A friend did a necropsy for me and found a twisted intestine. The rumen was full, but not with air, but with food, probably 70 lbs worth of alfalfa. You could see the intestines were full of hay, and then it stopped. They were not necrotic so still getting blood, but no food could pass through. She never acted sick, she just kept on eating, and literally ate herself to death.

Watching her die right before my eyes was just really hard to grasp. I was totally helpless, it was very very sad.


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## bbredmom (Jun 1, 2012)

OH I'm so sorry babsbag. 

It got really hot here really fast last weekend, I wonder if that could have had something to do with it. 

MY husband had an emergency job lafter work (he's an electrician) so we got home too late to do fecals or check the pasture in the daylight. But everyone else is disgustingly healthy. Happy poo, good color, bouncing about.

Checked the grain-it seems exactly the same. And Speedy and the babies have been eating it too, and no bad effects there. 

I'm going to take some adult and baby poo in monday for a fecal, and we are going to check all the pastures this afternoon.


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## bbredmom (Aug 16, 2012)

So two months later, no more sick goats. The decals game back very normal. We wormed last night because everyone's eyelids were looking a little pinkish, and it's been a wretched hot summer. They've been on hay and weeds from the garden, because our pasture is dead from the drought.

So we are thinking its one of three things:

1. They both ate something poisonous, and ate it all before anyone else. And because of the drought, it's hasn't grown back
2. Tarantula, scorpion, or copperhead (which can have a very small bite)
3. Overeating disease

I know it's been a while, but I just wanted to let you guys know everyone else is doing fine. if only we could get some rain...I should not be buying hay in July!


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## ksalvagno (Aug 16, 2012)

Glad everything is ok now.


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