# Everything a goat novice needs to know?



## Kittycat1356 (May 29, 2017)

Hello! I have been dabbling in self sufficiency for a little while. I have chickens, and I've started a small garden.

I've had my chickens for a little over a year, and get lots of eggs. ( I'm building a larger coop for them as we speak, so excited to see it done)

I've gotten into a goat rut, I totally want a few for dairy, I'm a vegetarian so meat isn't important at all. 

What would be the best dairy goats? Best tasting milk? What gives the most ? Can the milks be mixed?

What do (dairy) goats eat, how often should i breed them, what do i do with the kids?

When's the best time to buy a goat?

Does hay take up most of their diet? Do they forage in a field okay? What would be the typical feeding arrangements.

How often do I worm my goats? Can i drink the milk if they have worms? 

Ugh I'm sorry for so many questions, I'm just trying to learn everything I can before I get goats and then be clueless.

I live on about 2 acres, I have neighbors, I can build a run for the goats, and a lean to, but I'd rather just let them range in my chickens run. ( when its completed)  the goats would have the 330 ft fence, is that enough room for them, chickens, ducks, and a goose? ( I have less than 15 birds ) only 3 chickens are standard size.  If it's enough room, how many can I fit comfortably.


----------



## animalmom (May 30, 2017)

First off I commend you for your growing self-sufficiency.  Kuddos!

Second, welcome to BYH!  Glad you found us.

Now, allow me to preface all that follows with I have Nigerian Dwarfs and think they rock the moon.  I also have chickens, geese, and rabbits.  This is based on MY experience.  The experience of others may be a whole lot different.

Small dairy goats like the Nigis, or the mini breeds (mini manchas, mini nubians) will naturally take up less space and eat less.  I really enjoy my Nigis milk, and have heard glowing reports on the milk from the mini breeds.  I don't have any experience owning a standard breed, but I do have a rule at my ranch that no animal can weigh more the I do, so I went with the Nigis.

If you get three goat owners together and ask what they feed you could end up with 5 or 6 responses.  Everyone has their favorite way, and just about all of them are fine.  My goats get all the hay they could want during the day and a light breakfast and dinner of pellets.  The milkers also get a flake of alfalfa.  My group are healthy and happy and therefore I am happy.  They would dearly love to browse their way through the world, but the world is not ready for that, so they get branches brought to them as well as trimmings from the fruit trees, spent roses and the occasional begged strawberry.

I know of some folks who let their goats browse and hay and that's about it except for some grain/pellets on the milking stand.  I would think it depends on the amount of browse and quality of browse you have.

Regarding breeding and kids... I have three of my milkers who are in their third straight year of milking and two milkers who are in their second year.  I don't breed every year.  I don't see the need to do that.  Selling kids is usually the way to rehome once the kids are weaned, or at anytime after birth if they are bottle fed.  I have a difficult time selling kids because they are so darn cute and there is not much market where I am for a small breed goat.

Regarding worming:  worming is done on a need to be done basis, period.  First you have a fecal test done my your vet, or yourself if you have the equipment.  If there is no need to worm, as in the worm count is low and not significant, then you do not worm.  You only worm when there is a test demonstrated need.  A human drinking the milk of a goat you have giving worming meds to would depend on the med.  Don't start with wormy goats, keep your area clean and you are on a good path for great health for your goats.  Won't guarantee the goats will never have worms, but you should have less a problem.

Goats and chickens live quite well together except for goats loving, craving, will crawl through broken glass to get to ... chicken feed.  Chicken feed will bloat a goat faster than you can spell "I".  A bloated goat will be a dead goat if not treated quickly.  You have no idea how determined a goat is to eat that which is denied her.  Let me say that again.  YOU have NO idea how determined a goat is to eat that which is denied her.  My chickens have their own yard.  I do keep my extra roosters with the goats (three pens) and have set up a corner in the pens that has an opening so restricted that the rooster has to ooze through it to get to his feed.  Even still I have caught goats on their knees trying to crawl into the rooster corners.  The hanging rooster feeders are farther back in the corner by the distance of the longest goat neck and head.  It works for me.  I like the rooster in each pen as I think (no evidence) the rooster helps keep the ground turned by his scratching and pecking.  Plus it allows me to have backup roosters and I like my roosters.

Regarding space... goats need to have shelter to get out of the rain as they will melt, get out of the sun if they want and to hide from the world when they are in the mood to do so.  A three sided shed works well.  My DH has made plywood cabanas for the pens.  I think a three sided shed is a little better because you can put their hay and pellets/grain in the shed and not worry about the food getting rain on it.  Granted, it is a small worry.

I suggest the following:  Mission Dictates Equipment.  That's a fancy way of saying sit down, figure out how much milk you want to have.  It is a ying/yang kind of game in that standard breeds will give you more milk per animal but each animal eats more than the mini breeds or the Nigis.  The land could support more minis or Nigis than standards.  My five milkers currently are giving me 9 cups of milk per day and I milk only once a day.  This is sufficient for our use, feeding the dogs, making chevre and yoghurt.  If it was me starting all over again I would do it pretty much as I did.  Start with two bred does and grow your herd from there.  I started with two bred does and have a herd of 25 right this moment.  Goat math is just as bad as chicken math.

Another word... do not underestimate the value of a good buck.  You may not need him right away, but you will eventually need a buck.  Get a good one, get one who's pedigree is littered with milking stars and strange notations that mean he has the genetics to knock your socks off.  Spend some money on a good buck.  You don't have to break the bank, not saying go out and spend $8-1,000 on a buck that's silly for your homestead, but a good breeder will work with you to show you good bucks, good genetics, and good pricing.  You will be amazed how much a good buck will improve your herd.

One more thing, when you get a chance would you put your general location on profile?  Nothing specific as we don't need your address, but the general location is helpful in answering your future questions.  I do hope you have future questions.  All of us love chatting animals, goat in specific but chickens, rabbits and anything else.  Please, please, please ask any question.  If you want to know the answer there may be someone else out there that wants to know the same thing.  Lastly, if you get an answer that doesn't make sense to you, ask again and again and again until you understand what folks are saying.


----------



## GitaBooks (May 30, 2017)

I love chickens! I have a flock of my own and they rock! We've also had goats, and they are so mischievous and intelligent.

What would be the best dairy goats? Best tasting milk? What gives the most ? Can the milks be mixed?
.......
It really depends on your individual tastes, but they do say Nubians give milk that is very creamy and sweet and they give a fairly good amount as well. Saanens are known for giving a high amount of milk. 
I'm sure the milk can be mixed, though I'm not sure how it would affect the quality.


How often should I breed them, what do I do with the kids?
......
I would suggest not over-breeding a goat, so every year is you're best bet after they reach breeding age. The kids can be added to the herd if you want, or sold as pets or meat goats (males) or diary goats (does).

When's the best time to buy a goat?
......
You'll get young adults in the late summer and early autumn, you can get adults most any time of the year, but generally these are "culls" or goats that didn't breed or produce well and so are being rehomed for this reason.

Does hay take up most of their diet? Do they forage in a field okay? What would be the typical feeding arrangements.
.......
Hay is very important, as the roughage keeps their stomach healthy and digesting properly. Different farms take different routes when it comes to feeding. If you have enough land and good quality browse then they can live off the land pretty well, but their milk can taste strange if they live on forage only and they may not produce as well or be able to feed their babies and be milked at the same time (in which case the babies have to be bottle fed or found a new home, which is stressful on the doe and the kid). Grain is a good supplement to go with hay and forage.

Ugh I'm sorry for so many questions, I'm just trying to learn everything I can before I get goats and then be clueless.
....
Don't worry! Asking questions is a great sign you'll be an awesome goatherd.  : )

I live on about 2 acres, I have neighbors, I can build a run for the goats, and a lean to, but I'd rather just let them range in my chickens run. ( when its completed) the goats would have the 330 ft fence, is that enough room for them, chickens, ducks, and a goose? ( I have less than 15 birds ) only 3 chickens are standard size. If it's enough room, how many can I fit comfortably.
.......
It depends on the size and amount of goats and how much supplemental food you offer. They will need a shelter for rain, wind and snow and if they are a smaller breed than predation by something such as coyotes or feral dogs can be an issue, so a locking shed or a large enough coop to share with the flock that can be locked at night.

Best of luck!!


----------



## Kittycat1356 (May 31, 2017)

animalmom said:


> First off I commend you for your growing self-sufficiency.  Kuddos!



Thanks! I've been mostly considering the NiDwarf goats, they have the cutest markings, and I've heard they have good tasting milk. They are fairly available where I live. I found 2 possibly bred does, one is a NiDwarf, the other is a Pygmy/dwarf mix. I probably won't get them though, because I need to set the fence and houses up lol. I've considered having one larger Doe for milk, and have the dwarfs for extra good stuff, but I'm not sure if they would get along.

I have a fairly large yard, but no brush or trees, so not very interesting forage, but we do get lots of grass and dandelions, they grow really fast. I imagine hay would be the main staple food with goat pellets, but could they eat fruit waste, like watermelon rinds, possibly pumpkin and stuff like that? I give my chickens that stuff often, and wouldn't want to have an issue with the goats.

The goats would have a different shelter than the chickens, probably like a oversized dog house or 3 sided shelter with a loft for hay. But they would share the run/field...I think I could manage making a feeding system the goats wouldn't be able to reach or get to. Also, when my chickens have lots of ranging room, they eat mostly bugs and spiders, with the occasional flower and grass. So they would probably only eat early in the morning before I set them loose. 
If push comes to shove, I could sell a kid for an extra fence. ( they cost around the same here.)

I would love a buck, but don't they make the milk taste funny? I have about 2 acres and have neighbors on all sides, I wouldn't want to make them deal with the stink. ( but I don't know how bad they smell)

I heard their milk starts to get weird after about a year? then they need to be bred again? Whatever the case, I'd rather not overbred my goats, so if that's an option I'll just keep milking lol. 
There is a little bit of a goat demand here, so selling off extra kids wouldn't be too hard. Though I do want a wether or two as pets or tiny farm helpers lol.

Sorry about that, I fixed up my profile a little lol. 
I enjoy learning about all kinds of animals, so I'll definitely be looking up stuff, and trying to learn as much as I can.


----------



## Kittycat1356 (May 31, 2017)

GitaBooks said:


> I love chickens! I have a flock of my own and they rock! We've also had goats, and they are so mischievous and intelligent.
> 
> Best of luck!!



Thank you for all the info! Most available does and doelings in my area are either NiDwarf mixes or boer goats? ( not sure what those are lol) so I'll probably end up with NiDwarfs. 

I definitely won't breed them more than once a year, less if possible. do I have to milk the doe if she has kids? I'd rather just let them drink and not risk starving them. 

I'm looking to buy goats in a month or two if my "schedule" permits, but thanks for the info I'll look into the goats before I buy one less able to produce. ( though I'm used to laking production, most of my chickens lay small eggs or fairly few... Some of my chickens lay once a week. ) but I still get enough eggs lol. 

I'll definitely feed hay and pellets then! They will probably even have access to sprouts or fodder, if that's okay, I'm getting into it for my runaway chickens so they can get in their grass need. 

I don't think I'll have too many problems with stray dogs getting into my fence once it's up, but will a line of barbed wire stop them? 
Also I don't think there will be too many coyotes either, I have neighbors on all sides, and a tiny wooded area in the very back, maybe 15ft deep. There might be opossums and raccoons back there, but I can see my neighbors yard and fence easily, and I see rabbits in there often. I might put up an electric wire or barbed wire if it works, just in case. Because our neighbors occasionally loose their dogs, who are pretty friendly and never bothered my chickens ( even the chicks with a plastic garden fence cage) 
We do have Hawks though. I've been trying to think of a safe way to deter them from my chickens if they had such a large run. But I doubt they would take any goat... Maybe a kid, if they were really bold, but they seem kind of skittish.


----------



## animalmom (Jun 1, 2017)

My goats enjoy most of the garden scraps, although I found out yesterday they are not interested in melon vine.  The thing about feeding melon rinds such as pumpkin or watermelon or cantaloupe to your goats is you do need to cut up the rind into small bite-sized pieces.  Keep in mind that goats do not have top front teeth.  They have bottom front teeth and molars but they lack the teeth we use to bite off things like apples and melons.  If they can get it back to their molars they will eat it.  With the chickens I can throw out any rinds and they will peck their way through, goats will munch their way through anything they can get into their mouth so melon rinds are wonderful treats if cut down into bite sized pieces.  

I have not noticed any milk change in either taste or texture with my extended milking.  

There are several things that can impact the taste of milk such as cleanliness of your milking process (your hands/the doe's udder/the milking equipment) and health and feed of the does.  Just having a buck on your property will not mean the milk will taste bucky, really.  Bucky milk tasting can occur from having the does in with the buck so that the buck's rubbing on the doe transfers his "l'eau de l'amore" to the hair on the doe.  Also you don't have to have a buck.  You may be able to find someone who does stud service, or arrange for AI.  There are always options if you get creative with your thinking.

I keep my bucks, yep plural, in their own pen with a bunch of wethers as company.  The buck pen is separated from the two doe pens by the chicken yard on one side and 16 or so feet on the other side.  The boys and girls can see each other but not get to each other.  My three bucks firmly believe that in rut one needs frequent and copious applications of perfume.  When in rut I don't go around hugging my boys, or trimming their hooves, unless it is the day before I do laundry, as their odor will rub off on your clothes and you will smell a little.  The odor depends on your nose.  By that I mean I don't find the odor awful; I think it smells like Ivory soap.  The odor doesn't waft into the house even with a strong breeze.  The odor pretty much stays with the buck.  If you want to talk about stink, I think the geese, after a long rain, stink worse than my bucks... a neglected litter box stinks worse... but that's my nose.

There are lots of good breeders in North Carolina.  There are several breeders from NC here on this site.  I strongly suggest you contact some of them and ask if you could come out and see their operation and talk with the breeders as to how they do things and ask lots of questions including how their bucks smell, how the breeder handles breeding, how the breeder handles milking (leave the kids on the dam and milk after weaning, leave the kids on the dam and separate at night and milk in the morning, pull the kids/bottle feed and start milking right away).  Take what you learn from the various breeders, beat it against what you want/can do and then decide what would work for you.  Attending a local goat show is another way of gathering information and seeing structurally good goats.

I love my goaties.  They are funny, smart, infuriating, good listeners, hard headed, charming, productive, love bugs and they are work.  Wouldn't trade them for anything.

Keep asking questions!


----------



## OneFineAcre (Jun 1, 2017)

animalmom said:


> First off I commend you for your growing self-sufficiency.  Kuddos!
> 
> Second, welcome to BYH!  Glad you found us.
> 
> ...



X2
Perfect answer


----------



## Southern by choice (Jun 1, 2017)

Animal Mom did a great job covering to basics.
One thing to consider is how much milk you need and if the breed  you are looking at can achieve that.
As far as a buck, yes again- good advice however that buck is passing to offspring it will do nothing to improve the does that you already have. The advantage is keeping the does from those breedings to improve your herd.

We have Nigies, Mini's, and Standards. All have heir pro's and cons. We have all because we like all. LOL 
If a nigie giving 1-2 qts per day is sufficient than go with that.
If a mini giving 3/4 gallon to a gallon or more a day is what you need than go with that.

Our Nigies range from 65-80 lbs
Our minis range from 65-100 lbs

Go to different farms and see what attracts you.
We recently had someone wanting Nigies they came to the farm several times. They ended up falling in love with the lamanchas. They ended up getting two miniature lamanchas (an early generation that ended up with Nigerian ears) and two Nigerians they are waiting on standard lamanchas as well.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Jun 1, 2017)

I looked up you location on the map and see you are near Fayetteville.
There is a group called the Sandhills Small Ruminant Association that you should look into. They have a FB page.
Also, this group is sponsoring a show this weekend June 9-10 at the Carolina Horse Park.  I think that is outside of Fayetteville.
We will most likely be there as well as some other local Nigerian breeders.

I've read through this thread and if you don't want a buck you should factor that into your decision when you buy your does.
What I mean by that is will the farm you get your does from be willing to breed them for you?
I personally would not be willing to breed someone's does if they did not get them from me.
I have one time as a favor to someone else.

There is a friend of ours who raises Nigerians in Raeford, NC
End-O-Way Farm. She has a FB page too.  She might be a good person for you to look at.
She will be at this show too.


----------



## Southern by choice (Jun 1, 2017)

That is a great idea. I know a few months ago End-O-Way had some available Nigerian does.
You can meet some really nice people and breeders there as well. We decided not go to this show as we only have Jrs and the numbers won't be there... it would be nice to meet you. 
OFA will be there and lots of other good folks! 
(hint- NC dairy goat breeders are awesome )


----------



## OneFineAcre (Jun 1, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> That is a great idea. I know a few months ago End-O-Way had some available Nigerian does.
> You can meet some really nice people and breeders there as well. We decided not go to this show as we only have Jrs and the numbers won't be there... it would be nice to meet you.
> OFA will be there and lots of other good folks!
> (hint- NC dairy goat breeders are awesome )



We are looking at taking Clarabelle, Cocoa and Shea as milkers.
2 or 3 Jr Does.
2 bucks, probably Big Brown and Valiant.
A lot less than Memorial Day
That's 8, need to look to see if there is a price break for 10.


----------



## Southern by choice (Jun 1, 2017)

OneFineAcre said:


> We are looking at taking Clarabelle, Cocoa and Shea as milkers.
> 2 or 3 Jr Does.
> 2 bucks, probably Big Brown and Valiant.
> A lot less than Memorial Day
> That's 8, need to look to see if there is a price break for 10.



There is but unless they moved the deadline (which was the 30th) wow you are gonna be paying some kinda money.
Still thinking I should make a date with DH and take 2-4 goats and me and him show them. 

I need to send you a pic of a buck I really like. Isaac is the daddy. 

Sorry @Kittycat1356  taking your thread way off course now- that happens here alot. LOL


----------



## Kittycat1356 (Jun 1, 2017)

Thanks guys lol, I'm leaving the state for a month soon, going to lancaster PA, so I'll look into getting goats when I get back. I probably won't make it to any goat or livestock shows before I leave, but I will be going to the east Fayetteville flock swap on the 3rd to sell off a few of my undesired chicks, and maybe buy some new chicks.

If a Billy goat smells less than a goose, I'll definitely consider one. I'll need to find a goat to smell lol!
I have a baby goose living in my room with me currently, he does smell, but I clean his box twice a day so it's not overwhelming. (He was scalped by a feral cat) he's pretty much gotten better, but I want to wait until his skin covers more, I don't want the red to attract pecks or flies to lay eggs in it.


----------



## babsbag (Jun 1, 2017)

Kittycat1356 said:


> have a baby goose living in my room with me currently



Oh the things we do for our animals. I have been known to have chickens in the bathtub.


----------



## Kittycat1356 (Jun 3, 2017)

@babsbag lol I've had chickens in the bathtub before, just to keep them out of their first rains ( though they could have just gone into the coop!) 

I have some news otherwise though about my goat dreams. 
I found a beautiful Nigerian dwarf buckling, and I'm crazy sad i don't have a fence and shelter yet, because if i had a buck, I'd want him to be it. (Speaking of keeping chickens in the tub... maybe no one will notice a goat) 

And some more news, being in nc, alot of you must know how hot it is, so i work on my coop at night. Last night I heard a ruckus about a mile?~ down the road, sounded alot like coyotes to me. 
I might end up putting a door on the goat shelter now.

Do you think my dogs urine would keep them at bay? He barks like mad when he sees a new dog or someone he doesn't know in the yard. 
Though I don't think the coyotes come this close to civilization ( at least these ones)  we have so many opportunities for an easy meal, but they haven't come yet.


----------



## Southern by choice (Jun 3, 2017)

We have an average two livestock guardians in each field.  Currently 8 working LGD's keep all our goats safe. Coyotes are terrible here.


----------



## Ginger's Goats (Aug 8, 2017)

Kittycat1356 said:


> Thank you for all the info! Most available does and doelings in my area are either NiDwarf mixes or boer goats? ( not sure what those are lol) so I'll probably end up with NiDwarfs.
> 
> I definitely won't breed them more than once a year, less if possible. do I have to milk the doe if she has kids? I'd rather just let them drink and not risk starving them.
> 
> ...



Well i'm not sure what everyone has said, or if this has come up, but hawks shouldn't bother your goats. No matter if their as small as a pygmy. My (only two) pygmy goats drove my falcons an hawks away! We liked having the hawks and falcons, in our yard (We actually _also_ have 2 acres with woods behind. You my neighbor?  Lol non of my neighbors having chickens. Unless your hiding them under your porch???) Anyway, In our yard we used to have probably 3 or 4 falcons and a hawk on our property. (also had two owls in the front, for over 5 years but haven't seen them this year) (There's a massive tree they nested in.) Anyway, Goats drive hawks and falcons away. We got out goats in october and we stopped seeing the hawks and falcons 2 months later. It is good though, keeps our chickens safer. Some people get goats _just_ for that purpose! They house them near their chickens as guardians. Thats the way a friend of mine got into goats.
Wish you good luck! Your lucky about having mostly NDs in your area! All i have are boers, pygmies, and Alpines. Hardly any nigerians. Which is why i'm thinking about getting a pygmy to milk so we make sure we don't overflow with milk like we do with our chicken's eggs.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Aug 8, 2017)

You should be careful with young kids though, I know several people who have lost kids to hawks


----------

