# Coughing wether...lung worms or pnuemonia???



## glenolam (Aug 9, 2010)

About a week ago I heard A cough then nothing else.  A few days later heard A cough again and was able to see it came from my wether.  Yesterday I heard him cough a few times, so it seems the cough is increasing.

I wormed him on Friday w/ivomec to cover lung worm and plan to redose next Wed (10 days later) - if it _is_ lung worm, would his coughing increase then decrease? 

There's no runny nose, no fever, appetite and overall personality remains the same - just a cough.

I put my head against his side and listened to him breath.  To me, it sounded a little rattled....I tried to compare it to another yearling, but she was less than helpful and my other goats were chomping away and so rumens were in full force.

I trimmed hooves yesterday, so everyone got fed on the milk stand and those waiting for their turn waited outside poking their head through the gate I made.  He can fit his head sideways between the gate slats and sometimes can't figure out how to get his head back out, but manages to eventually.  He did cough after he got his head back out, but I chalked that up to pushing his throat down on the wood to get his head out.  I gave him probios with his grain, just in case...

At what point should I give him something other than ivomec and probios?  His eye lids aren't at a 1, but more along 2-3 closer to 2 than 3).  FWIW I have PenG and LA 200 on hand....


----------



## mully (Aug 9, 2010)

Just as in humans a cough does not mean pneumonia. If you have wormed regular doubt if it it is lung worms. I would wait and see!  If nights are cooler and damper could just be phlegm.


----------



## glenolam (Aug 9, 2010)

Actually, the nights have been cooler - not necessarily more damp, but much cooler.  Now we're back up into freaking hot and humid 

We got some leftover hay from a field not too long ago - quite a good deal, actually.  We were allowed to drive our truck up and load up on the leftovers the bailer missed.  We ended up getting 2 trucks worth and filled up the goat's feeders as well as fed the cows.  I thought that since it was the leftover stuff it was more dusty, but no one else is coughing but him. They've since blown through that batch and are now on hay bales so I guess we will just wait and see....I just don't want to wait until it's too late.


----------



## cmjust0 (Aug 9, 2010)

Since he has no fever and still has a good appetite and seems normal, it's not likely to be pneumonia..  Generally speaking, pneumonia = fever = lethargy, depression, inappetance, etc.  Feverish goats are almost always visibly unwell goats..

If it is lungworm, you just killed them with Ivomec...so that's good.

As to whether or not his coughing would worsen after Ivomec killed off the lungworms...good question.  I have no clue.  I've never personally dealt with lungworms to know, but........it kinda makes sense that it would, doesn't it?  Hypothetically speaking, I mean..  Seems to me that a bunch of little foreign bodies dying and starting to break loose in the bronchial tissue would be a little irritating, to put it mildly.

Then again, like I said...I really dunno.  

You might try an antihistamine..  Lots of people do that (apparently, anyway...I never have, but _would_) and if it helps, it might give you another clue as to what's actually going on..


----------



## helmstead (Aug 9, 2010)

Lungworm is a funny thing to treat.  They do actually cough a bit more as the worms die off...and the cough will remain and be chronic for quite some time due to scar tissue in the lungs.  Lungworm also FWIW isn't that common...in all the goats I've been around I've only seen one actual case of lungworms.

I would also try the Benadryl to rule out allergies.


----------



## glenolam (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks for the advice.  His couging wasn't as persistant today...which may make sense as it's been 4 days since the 1st dose of ivomec.  

Now, on the other hand, my yearling doe started coughing a bunch yesterday.  She's always been a little finicky.  She has no brothers/sisters/mothers in my little herd, and has had to earn her way for everything where as my other goats at least had someone else to help them along.  She's constantly getting dragged out of the feed bowl and eats like it's the first and last time she'll ever get anything. Even when she's alone....

I'm not sure if her coughing was because they all just ate and she scarfed down her grain or if she's coming down with something, too.....  eyes look fine, no temp ( ugh...I hate taking temps).  Do you think I should just wait and see or treat with ivomec just in case?


----------



## Calliopia (Aug 10, 2010)

I went through the same thing w/ my guys.  Started as a mild cough. I switched out pretty much every environmental factor I could while worming them.  It moved from goat to goat and eventually the whole herd was coughing.  No temps just a cough that was starting to sound wet.  

After consulting w/ my vet we put them on 2 rounds of Draxxin and a whopping huge dose of Ivomec (About 1cc per 10lbs) once a week for 2 weeks and then a more standard dose in 3 weeks and again in 3 weeks .   (cough is gone in one, 90% gone in 2, and 75% gone in 2).    We are just getting ready to do our first 3 week dose.   Our theory was that they did actually have lungworm but it wasn't getting picked up in the fecals.  


I also hit everybody w/ bose, a better mineral mix, added calf mana and a horse supplement for hoof, hair and ligament support thinking it would aid in tissue 
healing. 

  After all this however my goats opinion is, "Come hell or high water, you are NOT catching me again, no siree Bob"


----------



## glenolam (Aug 10, 2010)

I thought lung worms were difficult to detect on fecals anyway....


----------



## Calliopia (Aug 10, 2010)

They are. Which coupled with the fact that it is supposed to be rarer makes me wonder if it isn't actually more prevalent.    Back in the 80's, just because we didn't have a good way to test for HIV at first doesn't mean that people didn't have it. 

Basically we had to use the "treat for it and if it gets better then that must be it" method with my guys.   My vet is great in that he will work w/ me and try damn near anything and they have ALL kinds of stuff on hand and great equipment... but it's a large animal vet right next to our local track and 99.999% of what they treat is horses.


----------



## ksalvagno (Aug 10, 2010)

Mycoplasma is another possibility. The Draxxin will take care of it.


----------



## glenolam (Aug 10, 2010)

So is the consensus to treat _as if _ it is lung worm or mycoplasma or should I still wait to see if it was dry, dusty hay, cold nights, allergies?  I'm not sure which way I'm leaning since no one is in dire straights right now....


----------



## Calliopia (Aug 10, 2010)

No body was in dire straights either at my place. But once I determined it to be contagious we smacked them with Draxxin and Ivomec and lots of immune boosters. 

My ONLY symptom was a contagious cough. No temps, no lethargy, still had good appetites, maintained their condition, just coughing a lot.


----------



## ksalvagno (Aug 10, 2010)

I had the same problem as Calliopia with coughing, no temps, acting normal, etc and it ended up being mycoplasma for me.


----------



## glenolam (Aug 11, 2010)

Sigh.....

OK.  Should I be treating everyone or just the two who are coughing?  They're all various ages, with the youngest being 4 mos old - is that old enough for Draxxin?

The yearling doe had a good cough fit last night...well good meaning she coughed for about 45 sec and it sounded less dry and a little more like phlem in there; not completely mucusy (if that's a word) but definitely didn't sound as if it was a dry cough.

The wether barely coughed yesterday -just once after scarfing down his grain.


----------



## ksalvagno (Aug 11, 2010)

My vet had me only treat the ones that were coughing. Eventually everyone but one goat was coughing so that one goat never got any Draxxin.


----------



## Calliopia (Aug 11, 2010)

That's how it sounded here.  Just to the "wet" side of a normal cough.   If you can separate the ones that are coughing and treat them great, but it moved through my guys fairly quickly so you may end up treating everyone. 

See if you can get your vet to sell you just the doses you need of Draxxin.  It seems uber expensive but you treat them once a week  with 1.1cc per 100lb vs twice a day with Pen for 7-14 days.   I actually found Draxxin to be preferable. 

Doses of Draxxin are about 5.00 each. So a two week course is $10.00 per goat (roughly).    My guys are all between 100 and 150 lbs. 

Penn is .12 per cc and at 6cc 2x a day it was 1.44 per day. x 14 days is 20.16 + all the extra needles  + having to catch and stab 5 goats twice a day.


----------



## ksalvagno (Aug 11, 2010)

Believe me, $5 per dose was CHEAP. My vet charges $27.90 per ml. A 50 ml bottle at PBS Animal Health is $224.27. At the time when I had the problem, I just bought the doses but I'm going to get a prescription and get a bottle of it myself in the near future to have on hand.


----------



## Calliopia (Aug 11, 2010)

Wow! I love my vet even more now  

  They charged me 87.00 for a partial bottle that had about 20-23 ml in it.  I have about 1/3 of it left in the fridge for relapses.

 I think your vet is overcharging you by a LOT.   Valley Vet has a 50ml bottle for 219 which works out to about 4.40 per cc or about 5.00 a dose.


----------

