# Sudden loss: symptoms lethargy and scours



## Sweetened (May 21, 2015)

My little Edith passed away yesterday. 3 days ago I walked into the barn to get the triplets and put them out with the girls as i have been for nearly 2 weeks (the cow hogs the shelter so i put the babies up at night). I thought something had died somewhere in the barn due to the awful smell, but quickly discovered Edith had scours. I took them off the fresh grass i had been giving them as that was the only change to their diet. She was eating and drinking fine, playing running and so on.

The next day, when i was putting them up at night, she was lagging a little behind, still eating and drinking. Her scours had turned into clumpy poops that were still not berries but wasnt liquid either.

Yesterday morning, she didnt make it to the pen. She didnt have the energy to finish the walk, so i gathered some hay and brought it in the house along with her. Offered molasses water, gave her oxytetracycline (la100) at a dose of 2ml for under 50lbs. I also gave her molasses water, which she guzzled. She ate, wandered around the house, pooped berries, laid with the dog. 3 hours later we had to run out to the store, and she was having trouble on the slippery floors so i put her back out in the barn.

Within an hour, when i checked on her, she was dead.

The prevailing thing was that rotten smell from when she pooped but with the berries she was passing that was gone.

Is this coccidiosis? Parasite load? We will be ivomecing the babies tonight just in case but i am at a loss. She fell off so quickly, almost in the same fashion tootsies kids did when we had that soremouth infection.


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## Pearce Pastures (May 21, 2015)

Ivermectin will not treat coccidiosis, and it does sound likely the issue.  Sorry Sweetened.


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## Pearce Pastures (May 21, 2015)

Also, was she vaccinated with CD&T?


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## Sweetened (May 21, 2015)

No, i know ivormec is for parasites, just grasping at straws at what to treat.

We dont vaccinate.


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## Hens and Roos (May 21, 2015)

sorry to hear this


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## babsbag (May 21, 2015)

Sorry you lost her.  

Cocci would not have gone away without treatment so I wouldn't suspect that, I would suspect diet if it went away on its own. I have no insight on parasites and scours as worms are not much of an issue where I live. Color of the scours can be a good clue too.

Goats can just be a mystery, and that was awfully fast for her to die. Did you ever check her temp? The scours may not have been related to the problem at all.

Are the others ok?


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## Sweetened (May 22, 2015)

I didnt think to check temp, i will pick up a rectal thremometer.

The scours was a brownish grey colour. Thebothers are fine and doing well. Edith was always a bit thinner than the other two and when they are side by side with fern,who was the single and dam raised, they are nearly half her size. I tried graining them but they are not interested in anything other than grass and hay.

We dont usually have a heavy parasite load here either, woth our harsh winters, but im grasping at straws.


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## Southern by choice (May 22, 2015)

http://goat-link.com/content/view/46/75/#.VV8k-09Viko

Bottom of page is a color chart
*
*Black and tarry, yellow to greenish watery OR Grey foul smelling Scours--* Sometimes with blood or tissue- high fever accompanies. Babies to adults: It could be: Salmonellosis

Sorry Sweetened


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## Sweetened (May 25, 2015)

Thankyou Southern, and everyone.  It has been diagnosed as Coccidiosis, and we have now lost Virgil and Ethel isn't doing well either.  Despite treatment, they have failed/are failing quickly.

Because of this, my further contribution to this forum will be limited when it comes to advice and information sharing, as I do not feel the least bit qualified to be helping with anything.  Some tough decisions will need to be made over the next little while here as to continued management and so on.  While we are leaning towards continued natural management, we have considered a vaccine schedule, but I am uncertain as of yet.  We are somewhat of the mindset that this weakness or prone nature from this mother's kids is a result of breeding and selection, and are considering if a survival of the fittest needs to be implemented (with support of course).  

Wishing everyone here all the very best.  And if my Golden Herd Membership can be transferred to someone else, I'd appreciate that greatly.


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## Southern by choice (May 25, 2015)




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## Latestarter (May 25, 2015)

Sorry for these losses @Sweetened. I know it's tough to take. Don't be too hard on yourself. It is what it is. There are lots of diseases out there that kill quickly. Especially with newborns and the young (& old). Now that you've identified the cause, all you can do is try to protect the rest of your animals as best you can. And being able to share this/your experience with someone else down the road just might save them the same heartache you're going through. Just sayin' 

Edit to say: Your signature disclaimer says it all.


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## Hens and Roos (May 25, 2015)

so sorry @Sweetened


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## Devonviolet (May 25, 2015)

Oh Sweetened!  I am so sorry for your loss! My heart breaks for you!


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## bonbean01 (May 25, 2015)

just saw this....so very sorry sweetie!!!!!! 

Flooding rains here with violent winds and thunderstorms and there is a break right now and I must sign off and finish what needs to be done with the critters as I have the chance!!!!  More later.


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## babsbag (May 25, 2015)

I am very sorry, you have had a rough year, but your insight and experience is worth much so please don't be afraid to share.


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## Southern by choice (May 25, 2015)

@Latestarter said it best  


Latestarter said:


> Your signature disclaimer says it all.



I also agree with @babsbag 

Not everything works for every situation and we ALL learn from one another and the experiences that we share are always helpful to someone.


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## Pearce Pastures (May 26, 2015)

Sweetened, your experience and insight are valuable and I hope you will continue to share.  No matter the length of time spent with the forum or in working with a breed, there are always things to learn and practices that need changing.  I am continually learning new things and have thrown out things that I thought best practice and taken on new many many times.  

I like your natural approach.  I may not ascribe to it as much as  you do, but it doesn't mean there is not value to it---neither way is the right way, they are both right and so are the management methods in between.  If you decide to vaccinate, there is no harm in that choice.  We only do CD&T here.

For your cocci situation---is there anyway you can get something like a 40% sulfa medication, or SMZ-TMP from a vet?


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## frustratedearthmother (May 26, 2015)

I am so sorry for the problems you've had to endure.  It stinks!   We all make our own management decisions for our own circumstances and none of us get into this planning to lose animals.  The most important thing that we can do as owners, breeders and lovers of this lifestyle is to ADAPT!  You can bet your sweet bippie that the parasites are adapting!  They're getting tougher and more resistant all the time.  What worked before may not work anymore.

I know that your heart is hurting, and there are a lot of us who hurt right along with you because we've been where you are.  I'll bet there are very few of us who haven't made a decision that cost an animal its life.    The loving, caring breeder, manager, owner learns from his/her mistakes and becomes just a little bit better.

Oh, and for cocci - I've just started using Totrazuril.  So much easier than a 5 day treatment!


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## alsea1 (May 26, 2015)

It is hard sometimes. Especially when an animal passes.  Hang in there.


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## GLENMAR (Jun 8, 2015)




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## Sweetened (Jun 9, 2015)

We ended up ceasing all treatment, conventional and otherwise on Ethel, as she was teetering on the edge for several days with no change. There was about a week of worry, but she is still around, doing well. Her weight fluctuates high and low, but scours has stopped. I believe she is SEVERELY stunted from this though, she is half the size of fern and shes two days older. I finally put a collar on her to see if shes growing at all as it should get tight as weeks go by. We will see.


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## Hens and Roos (Jun 9, 2015)




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## bloonskiller911 (Aug 9, 2015)

Firstly, let me say I am sorry for your loss.  I hope you are still on the forum.  I have gained a lot of insight into our practices and a few little "ah-has" that have really helped me, from posts I have read by you.  We too try to stay all natural, but keep wormers on hand and your story has mirrored mine.  I had the same thing happen over two weeks.  a perfectly healthy 5 month old buckling died in a matter of a day on me, because I ignored some signs, and then a two year old doe, (she was a rescue that was bred when we got her and never in good health).  We have never dealt with coccidia in the 3 years we have had goats, we also have sheep.  I was unprepared. I blame myself.  I see the disappointment in my daughter's faces.  Fortunately, I have learned.  But now I am also paranoid at the slightest clumpy or loose stool, cough, or any animal that may just be enjoying a lazy day.  This is something I have to come to terms with.  I doubt that I forgive myself, but I will damn well try my best.  Now that I got some of my angst out, I have a question for you, or whomever will comment back.  Did you check for anemia when your goats had loose stools?  with it being so wet and everything I have heard/read on barber pole worms, I am over paranoid!! From the consistency, smell, and other symptoms, coccidia seems to be the best answer, but I can't find anything that says coccidia can lead to anemia, only that barber pole worms and liver flukes can (along with other none parasite related incidents).  I hope that you are still here @Sweetened.  I could still use your guidance, even if I have only gotten it from you posts and not from a direct conversation.


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## SkyWarrior (Aug 9, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Thankyou Southern, and everyone.  It has been diagnosed as Coccidiosis, and we have now lost Virgil and Ethel isn't doing well either.  Despite treatment, they have failed/are failing quickly.
> 
> Because of this, my further contribution to this forum will be limited when it comes to advice and information sharing, as I do not feel the least bit qualified to be helping with anything.  Some tough decisions will need to be made over the next little while here as to continued management and so on.  While we are leaning towards continued natural management, we have considered a vaccine schedule, but I am uncertain as of yet.  We are somewhat of the mindset that this weakness or prone nature from this mother's kids is a result of breeding and selection, and are considering if a survival of the fittest needs to be implemented (with support of course).
> 
> Wishing everyone here all the very best.  And if my Golden Herd Membership can be transferred to someone else, I'd appreciate that greatly.



  

Sorry for your loss, Sweetened. Losing kids to coccidia can be devastating. I have a feeling that's what hit my Blackjack.  Sometimes you can get on top of things and still have a bad run of luck. 

With all my kids dropping like flies and finding nothing wrong, I know what you're going through.  Goat babies can be fragile at times. If you would like some recommendations, I can offer them.  Basically, this has been a tough year for animals and what you've done --or haven't done-- doesn't necessarily point to your care or lack thereof.


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