# Kiko breed standard



## Bossroo (Dec 21, 2012)

To satisfy my curiosity, I googled Kikos...  however I couldn't find any breed standard on the 3 breed registries.  Straw, Can you enligten us ?


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Dec 21, 2012)

There is no standard for the Kiko goat. 

As it was once explained to me by a well known Kiko breeder, "No there is no standard yet for Kikos, because it is a composite breed. The best of different breeds combined."


The Kiko was created by crossing the best feral stock with the best milk breed bucks to create the perfect meat goat. It was created in New Zealand for the sole purpose of being used for meat. There really was no need for a standard and because Kikos are very rarely ever shown, there is less of a reason to create a standard. I used to wish they had a standard but I am now glad they do not. A standard comes with to much "stuff" imo and if that happens it could become another show breed, something I do NOT want to happen.

btw in case you have not seen it I have a page on the Kiko goat in my signature below.


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## Bossroo (Dec 22, 2012)

Let's see, from what I have read from Google search in the last 2 days as well as your Kiko page posting of their history...  The original developers of the breed  had a vision and a standard to achieve.  After several years of lots of dollars and hard work, they  sold out and their original composit stock dispersed ... 3 splinter registries in the U.S. with their own politics that don't recognise each other ... no breed standard of perfection in any of them ...  very wide body types and weights in all current flocks ...  each herdsperson is basically left to their own devices in breeding choices    ...


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Dec 22, 2012)

Bossroo said:
			
		

> Let's see, from what I have read from Google search in the last 2 days as well as your Kiko page posting of their history...  The original developers of the breed  had a vision and a standard to achieve.  After several years of lots of dollars and hard work, they  sold out and their original composit stock dispersed ... 3 splinter registries in the U.S. with their own politics that don't recognise each other ... no breed standard of perfection in any of them ...  very wide body types and weights in all current flocks ...  each herdsperson is basically left to their own devices in breeding choices    ...


In a way, yes.

The original developers did not have a standard in the way we think of a standard. We have standard here where the goat must be this tall but not taller then this, must have this and that but not that and this, can't be wider than this, can have ears only this way etc etc. This is a standard that we think of. http://www.abga.org/page.php?pageid=8
That's the Boer standard. We've got them for nearly all breeds here. Nubian, Nigerians, La Manchas, Alpines etc. btw standard differ with diferent registries, which is crazy.

The Kiko has a standard in which they must be able to do certain things such as survive with no care. They wanted large goats that grew quickly, dressed out good, raised large litter sizes without help or issue, etc. Their standard was performance based, unlike our standard here.

About the registries. The AKGA was, I believe the first registry. I know it was first of the three but I think that is what they used and then the others came about. The AKGA has nearly all of the original stock and nearly every 100% NZ goat you find will be AKGA registered for that reason. The dominated the market and were the only registry until the IKGA came out but the IKGA never was and still isn't very big, thought it seem to be growing. Then just a few years ago the best registry, the NKR, came out. The NKR came about because of members and people not liking what the AKGA was doing. They had INSANE costs and the began hiding owners VGL numbers, among other things. So several people left and the NKR was made. The NKR is growing at an insane rate and every day has new members, while in the last few years the AKGA has lost half it's members. The NKR lets you do more things with your goats and the way they do things makes so much more sense and is easier. And they have better people. lol

And the IKGA respects the AKGA, most of the time. The AKGA respects the IKGA only if certain things are done certain ways. It's a pain. The NKR respects both them. 

Example: In most cases to have an AKGA registered goat then both parents have to be AKGA registered AND DNA'd. IKGA is the same in most cases too. Neither respects the NKR because they don't like how they do the below.  
The NKR allows you to have NRK registered goats no mater the Kiko registry. Parents could be AKGA, IKGA or NKR, doesn't matter. Mix and match is fine and that makes more sense.





> no breed standard of perfection in any of them ...  very wide body types and weights in all current flocks ...  each herdsperson is basically left to their own devices in breeding choices    ...


Correct. No standard. This is a meat goat. A real meat goat in that they weren't made to show or to have all these special things about them. They are built for food basically. They came here for the same reason, to improve herds in all fashions. There really is no need for a standard.

Now people like me are breeding them to sell to other breeders to improve their breeding program. Then those people do the same. We go round in a big circle and we all hope to make money. haha That's really what we are doing.

And about your last sentence. Don't we all do that, regardless of breed?
And I would say that in all breeds there is a large range in size, wouldn't you?


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## Southern by choice (Dec 22, 2012)

don't know much about them other than my partner (farm partner that is) has them but I can tell you there are many boer breeders and lrg dairy goat breeders that will bring in a kiko buck to improve their lines for parasite resistance. That seems to be one of the best traits for the kikos/NZ. Very hardy and no wormers, little to no hoof trimming, they birth and raise their young open and need no interference. One of his does has triplets every time and has never needed any outside intervention. They rarely go in a shelter.... these goats, to me, as an observer are really different than any other goats I've ever seen. Around here Boers drop dead like flies, they are pumped with wormers , bad moms, etc. It really is a bad area to raise Boers but if it ain't white/red it can't be a meat goat. Go figure.


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## jodief100 (Dec 22, 2012)

Straw is right, the kikos have no phenotype standard.  Kiko breeders don't care who they look.  Kikos are about performance.  Good growth, low input, parasite and disease resistant.  

The AKGA has just started a system that will include performance in registration.  They are still working out the details.  It will work similar to the Boer's "ennoblement"  program but is performance based.  Essentially, a goat gets points based on his performance at a variety of performance based tests.  Right now there are only tests for bucks and they test for different traits.  So a buck will get certain points for weight gain, parasite resistance, resilience, feed conversion, etc.  It depends on what the buck test he was entered in tests  for.  He can then get additional points for the performance of his offspring at the tests. They just started it this year and are still formulating the points.  

Kikos are meat goats, not show goats.  We kiko breeders want to keep it that way.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Dec 22, 2012)

I did not know the AKGA was doing that. I knew the IKGA has something like that, but not quite the same. Good to know.

And you said it exactly right, we don't care what they look like. To a Kiko breeder all we really care about it their performance and how they pass that to their kids. That's it.


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## Bossroo (Dec 23, 2012)

Bossroo said:
			
		

> Let's see, from what I have read from Google search in the last 2 days as well as your Kiko page posting of their history...  The original developers of the breed  had a vision and a standard to achieve.  After several years of lots of dollars and hard work, they  sold out and their original composit stock dispersed ... 3 splinter registries in the U.S. with their own politics that don't recognise each other ... no breed standard of perfection in any of them ...  very wide body types and weights in all current flocks ...  each herdsperson is basically left to their own devices in breeding choices    ...


Hmmm!   When I clicked the submit button, part of my post ended up in outer space or  wherever ?   In any event,  I think that the original intent of producing a easy/ minimal care  superior meat goat is the way to go . The original breeders in NZ had a very extreame culling regimen and heavily culled to meet their vision to a " performance standard".   Someone ( ie. Straw Hat ) should check out the Dorper sheep (developed in S. Africa) inspection system and modify it to suit the Kiko as a good way to improve the breeding stock instead of every breeder breeding to  their own idea of a meat producer. Look at some of the designer dogs such as the "labradoodle", "chiwheeny", etc. , each is depending on anyone who breeds two different breeds and gives it a cute name to make some money. the buyer then can't breed on the traits that they fell in love with. What eventually happens is the pups end up as any other  mutt in the local pound. I have friends that tried crossing the Shnouser x Poodle thing to make money, first litter sold like pancakes, the next two litters ended up being freebies.  I had a flock of several hundred Ramboulett and Coriedale ewes and bred them to my Purebred Suffollk rams, then I sold all of their lambs as well as wool from the ewes at auction for meat and wool.  I also had a flock of purebred registered Suffolk rams that I bred for the sale as replacement purebred registered ewes and rams that I sold at very good prices  at private as well as at yearling auctions. These I not only provided with registration papers, but I added all detailed rate of gain performance records which gave them added value. I also agree with you that there are quite a bit of variety in size and performance in the purebred breeds. As an example ...There are quite a few Suffolks that fall far short of any breed standars and there is no uniformity of meat characteristics in those types of flocks therfore, I wouldn't look at that flock twice.  These bring cull prices.  During   the crash in wool prices, I sold out as sheering costs far outwayed the sale of wool resulting in lack of profit .  If I was to return to breeding sheep, I would do so with the Dorper sheep.  You see, I was and am of the mind that the animals should be judged as a performance producer to an expected standard  as a whole to have value.


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