# Newbie question: what does it mean?



## Craig MacDonald (Sep 25, 2016)

I see ads for goats for that include a percentage. For example, just saw one that reads "50% ABGA Paint Doe" I understand the last two words refer to the goats coloring, and ABGA to the Boer association. But what does the percentage refer to? I originally thought it would indicate the % of Boer in the animal, but if that were the case wouldn't they specify what the other half of the cross was? 

I see % numbers in a wide range, incl, IIRC, as high as 98%. So, what does the % mean??


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## Baymule (Sep 25, 2016)

In most cases I would surmise that is a fancy term for mutt. I see ads for some mixed up breeds that I think people don't know what they are, so a "percentage" sure sounds better than crossbred. Momma was a purebred, Daddy was a  Some ads are for some awful looking animals that their owners have tagged with a breed name, but it is obvious the breed search would need a DNA test!


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## NH homesteader (Sep 25, 2016)

I've seen it when looking at boers for sale.  Haven't seen it with other breeds...  So...

@Ferguson K @ragdollcatlady


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## Baymule (Sep 25, 2016)

For some pure breeds, it can mean that semen was imported and used on a breed already here. the resulting offspring was then half or 50%, then bred back using semen again. If a country's livestock is forbidden to be imported because of disease, this is often the only way to get a particular breed here.

But seriously, some of these ads are really ridiculous.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 25, 2016)

Not necessarily. When dealing in meat goats you will often see % 's . 
Example- Many bring in Kiko's or Spanish goats to cross into Boers. Why? Because of the Kiko's and Spanish goats ability to raise their young for high wean weights with little to no grain, also better kidding results, and better hooves, and parasite resistance. 
So if you are looking for Boers but want to start a herd with %'s then you get a better price and those does are bred to purebred Boer Bucks. Each generation the percentage goes up.

You see this in Kiko's as well. Many will cross Spanish and Kikos. Helps for genetic diversity as well.

When we sell a percentage buck they cannot have papers. They are considered a commercial buck. Many that buy commercial bucks are raising their meatgoats for meat and not breeding stock.

It is advantageous to buy % goats (does) and bring in a great buck. 

The New Zealand is 100% New Zealand. Even if I have a Kiko (which is derived from the New Zealand) and breed it to a NZ it will never attain the status of a NZ. It will be a PB KIKO though.

Most people will buy quality % does and breed to PB bucks and market bucks and keep does. Those does get bred to a PB buck and the % goes up and so on. 

So they are often  well planned and thought out breedings not just "mutts".

The dairy goat world does this as well but the are called "experimental" . They do this for genetic diversity as well as other reasons. A lower butterfat breed will be crossed with a higher butterfat breed and the same process begins. 

When looking at %'s always check dam and sire to check for extra teats. Not a trait you want. Look at structure, legs, capacity etc.  

Evaluating a Boer and evaluating a Kiko & Spanish will be quite different however.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 25, 2016)

Part 2 

Boer x Spanish= 50/50 If selling for Boer then you would say 50% Boer

That offspring 50% bred to PB Boer= 75% Boer

That offspring bred to PB Boer= 87.5%

That offspring bred to PB Boer= 93.75 (94%) usually can be registered as Boer

Going up one more generation = 96.875 

So depending on which breeds and which way you are breeding is generally how they are advertised.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 25, 2016)

Part3

Some of our old Kikos and kiko %'s 
Adults and kids



 



 
Kids! and big fat wide load to the right


 



 
Good eatin'


 
Dams and kids and Callie our Anatolian


 



 



 



 
Can you tell who the percentages are? PB?


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## ragdollcatlady (Sep 26, 2016)

Sometimes an animal can be purebred, but without papers to prove it, might be eligible for a percentage registration. 

The 50% does I got from @babsbag are actually 100%, the dad being registered as either a purebred or fullblood. But without papers on the dams, they are only eligible to be registered as 50%, the amount able to be shown by the sires paperwork. That might be why you see "as high as" or "actually" in an add when the paperwork may state a lower percentage. It is just the percent that can be verified by the paperwork available on the parents.


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## babsbag (Sep 26, 2016)

ABGA will let you register a doe at 50%.


(50%) Part-bred American Boer Goat:
*(i)* Sire is a Fullblood or American Purebred Boer goat and the dam is of unknown ancestry or of another breed.
*(ii)* Dam is a Fullblood or American Purebred Boer goat and the sire is of unknown ancestry or of another breed.

*B.* ¾ (75%) Part-bred American Boer Goat:  Sire is an a Fullblood or American Purebred Boer goat and the dam is a ½ (50%) American Boer Goat.
*C.* 7/8 (88%) Part-bred American Boer Goat: Sire is a Fullblood or American Purebred Boer goat and the dam is a ¾ (75%) American Boer Goat.
A buck has to be 97% Boer to considered Purebred and a doe has to be 94% Boer. Anything lower than that they are simply called a percentage if they are registered and commercial if they are not registered. 

Trust me, it gets confusing at times. 
http://abga.org/about-abga/rules-regulations/


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## Southern by choice (Sep 26, 2016)

As you can see there is a good bit about %'s.
Each registry will have their own rules.

IMO %'s can be a GREAT way to start out.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 26, 2016)

@Southern by choice those are some gorgeous goats. Love the kiko look!


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## Southern by choice (Sep 26, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> @Southern by choice those are some gorgeous goats. Love the kiko look!


Thanks. I LOVE the Kikos. When we move we will be building the herd back up. 
I really miss some of these girls.


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## Craig MacDonald (Sep 26, 2016)

I think I'm probably more confused than when I began, but it's OK because we're raising for meet, have no plans to show, and just want good healthy stock.

Maybe there is someplace that has all of this, but what's the meaning of the following terms:
Commercial
Fullblood
Purebred

And if we're just raising for meat is there any reason not to just get commercial grade goats??


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## babsbag (Sep 26, 2016)

Commercial is not registered and quite possibly no record of the ancestry or no way to prove its ancestry.

Fullblood can be traced back to Boer blood for generations on end; no other breed, and no unknown breeds.

Purebred is a goat that has unknown or non-Boer in its ancestry, but meets the required percentage of known Boer to be registered with ABGA as a purebred.

No reason at all to raise only commercial goats.


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## ragdollcatlady (Sep 26, 2016)

Commercial grade goats are just fine for meat and usually cheaper to purchase. 

Sometimes you will find pedigreed animals have more effort put into increasing the meat qualities in the offspring, but then you have the added expense since more effort usually means a breeder expects more of a return on animals for sale.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 26, 2016)

Craig MacDonald said:


> *Commercial*
> Fullblood
> Purebred
> 
> And if we're just raising for meat is there any reason not to just get commercial grade goats??





babsbag said:


> Commercial is not registered and quite possibly no record of the ancestry or no way to prove its ancestry.


Not necessarily true. 
We have commercial bucks that are commercial because most bucks from most registries cannot be registered until they reach that specified percentage.

IOW "Tray" our "Commercial" Kiko - we know his parentage. Know his whole background but he was only 75% Kiko so not able to be registered.
He was Spanish(high percent) Nubian (low percent) & Kiko and *sired by a registered Kiko.* The does were all registered as percentages. Bucks could not be because of their percentages.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 26, 2016)

If selling strictly for meat then commercial is the way to go.
Not wise to eat good breeding stock.


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## babsbag (Sep 26, 2016)

babsbag said:


> Commercial is not registered and *quite possibly* no record of the ancestry or no way to prove its ancestry.





Southern by choice said:


> IOW "Tray" our "Commercial" Kiko - we know his parentage. Know his whole background but he was only 75% Kiko so not able to be registered.
> He was Spanish(high percent) Nubian (low percent) & Kiko and *sired by a registered Kiko.* The does were all registered as percentages. Bucks could not be because of their percentages.



That is why I said quite possibly no record of the ancestry.


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## Ferguson K (Sep 27, 2016)

Great discussion!  I just saw this.


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## babsbag (Sep 27, 2016)

I was fortunate that when I started with Boers a few years back I had a great mentor that had already figured all of this out and could explain it to me. I wanted to breed for color and spots and I wanted them registered so I needed to find a buck that was registered that would help me meet my goals. Many of the spotted Purebred bucks have Nubian blood in them, that is how they "made" the spots. So it takes a lot of generations for those bucks to reach Purebred status. The buck I finally bought was 97%, the minimum to be registered as a Purebred.   Fullblood bucks are just that, 100% Boer.

When I decided to start a dairy I sold all of my Boers, most of them to @ragdollcatlady so now I just drool over the spots from her pictures.


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