# LGD puppy developed bowing of legs



## Beekissed (Dec 20, 2020)

.....home remedies for this?   When she arrived her legs were nice and straight but a mistake on my part of adding higher protein food to her diet caused a sudden bowing of her front legs.  Decreased the protein but added milk and a B complex vitamin to her diet and that seemed to be taking care of the problem, so yesterday I didn't add the B complex to her bowl and today I noticed more buckling and bowing of the legs.  Side note~I'm also adding some joint supplements to her feed each day.  

Continue the B Complex and whole milk?  Or is that a mistake?   I never had this in a pup before....always fed them regular adult dog food and never had a problem but with this one I just happened to have some high pro on hand I wanted to get rid of and mixed it in with the regular food about a week after she arrived....a few days of that and I started noticing the bowing.  
I'm reading conflicting reports online.....give more high protein, they said in one place.  It was the higher protein that started all of this, I do believe.   Give less calcium, they said, but when I added some calcium supplements the bowing started to abate.  

Anyone have experience with this?


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## Grant (Dec 20, 2020)

Take the puppy to the vet. You need to find out why the legs are bowing before treatment. It could be from an injury that needs surgery. It could be from the puppy growing too fast and added weight on soft bones. It could be a lack of calcium, or the dog not absorbing calcium properly which will cause a calcium deficiency. It could be a genetic deformity…just to list some examples. All of which have different treatments, a brace, surgery, medication. Only a vet can diagnose why.


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## Baymule (Dec 20, 2020)

I have never had this happen and have no experience or advice. 

I looked up rickets in dogs. Vitamin D  or cod liver oil twice a day, under a vet care.



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## Beekissed (Dec 20, 2020)

Grant said:


> Take the puppy to the vet. You need to find out why the legs are bowing before treatment. It could be from an injury that needs surgery. It could be from the puppy growing too fast and added weight on soft bones. It could be a lack of calcium, or the dog not absorbing calcium properly which will cause a calcium deficiency. It could be a genetic deformity…just to list some examples. All of which have different treatments, a brace, surgery, medication. Only a vet can diagnose why.



Not a genetic deformity...she was just fine when she arrived here.  Could be the growing too fast...others on LGD groups I belong to have had similar issues when feeding foods meant for puppies(higher protein foods).    The food I feed has served several puppies well, so it's not the current feed....could be she's not absorbing calcium well.   But, it didn't start until I switched up feeds and it started to get better when I switched back and added more calcium to her diet....but as soon as I didn't continue that, she started to show bowing.   It all evidences very quickly....straight legs one day, bent the next, back to straight, back to bent...all in a matter of days.   To me that sounds like something acute and not chronic, but I'm not sure.  

Vet visit is out....just experienced a drastic reduction in income in this house, which is why the need for a home remedy.


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## Beekissed (Dec 20, 2020)

Baymule said:


> I have never had this happen and have no experience or advice.
> 
> I looked up rickets in dogs. Vitamin D  or cod liver oil twice a day, under a vet care.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Bay!!!  Will definitely be doing research on these links.


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## Grant (Dec 20, 2020)

Also make sure she’s getting plenty of vitamin C. Fast-growing puppies, especially the heavy breeds, have considerable pressure on the long bones of the legs while they are growing. Vitamin D gets calcium and phosphorus from the gut into the body, and Vitamin C gets calcium and phosphorus into the bone.

If the diet is short on any of the needed vitamins, minor minerals, calcium or phosphorus, the puppy is slow to calcify while the frame is still being built; soft bones are the result.

Keep her on a lower calorie and protein diet for a bit to let the bones catch up with the musculature.


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## Finnie (Dec 21, 2020)

Grant said:


> All of which have different treatments, a brace, surgery, medication. Only a vet can diagnose why.





Grant said:


> Take the puppy to the vet. You need to find out why the legs are bowing before treatment.





Beekissed said:


> Vet visit is out....just experienced a drastic reduction in income in this house, which is why the need for a home remedy.


I understand not being able to afford a vet visit. But it doesn’t bode well for the puppy to have something this serious treated by the vastly opposing advice of the internet. While you goof around trying one person’s advice then another’s, whatever is truly wrong with the puppy gets left incorrectly treated and could lead to life long consequences. Too bad there’s not some way to squeeze out some vet money. Hm, maybe a Go-Fund me?


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## Beekissed (Dec 21, 2020)

Finnie said:


> I understand not being able to afford a vet visit. But it doesn’t bode well for the puppy to have something this serious treated by the vastly opposing advice of the internet. While you goof around trying one person’s advice then another’s, whatever is truly wrong with the puppy gets left incorrectly treated and could lead to life long consequences. Too bad there’s not some way to squeeze out some vet money. Hm, maybe a Go-Fund me?



I think I'll manage just fine, thanks.  Would I "goof around"?  No, I never "goof around"....I'm a nurse and have been treating my animals at home for decades without any "life long consequences", so I'm fairly confident I'll be able to manage this pup as well.  Asking for advice from anyone who has experienced this before is hardly "goofing around"....that's what these forums are for, to network and trade experiences with livestock, farming, etc.  Since the "Anyone have experience with this?" doesn't seem to include you, why in the world would you answer this post?  To simply insult someone because you hide behind the anonymity of a screen?   

Squeeze out some vet money?  You want to donate?      We'll let you be the first, since you feel I'm so very negligent and "goofing around" with this poor puppy's life.


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## frustratedearthmother (Dec 21, 2020)

Maybe switch her to a food formulated for large breed puppies.  She's a beautiful pup and it would be a shame if she went the way of Murphy, who was also beautiful.


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## B&B Happy goats (Dec 21, 2020)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Maybe switch her to a food formulated for large breed puppies.  She's a beautiful pup and it would be a shame if she went the way of Murphy, who was also beautiful.


We keep our dogs on puppy food for 18 to 24 months...per advice from our vet, larger breeds , sometimes longer....


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## Finnie (Dec 21, 2020)

Beekissed said:


> I think I'll manage just fine, thanks.  Would I "goof around"?  No, I never "goof around"....I'm a nurse and have been treating my animals at home for decades without any "life long consequences", so I'm fairly confident I'll be able to manage this pup as well.  Asking for advice from anyone who has experienced this before is hardly "goofing around"....that's what these forums are for, to network and trade experiences with livestock, farming, etc.  Since the "Anyone have experience with this?" doesn't seem to include you, why in the world would you answer this post?  To simply insult someone because you hide behind the anonymity of a screen?
> 
> Squeeze out some vet money?  You want to donate?    We'll let you be the first, since you feel I'm so very negligent and "goofing around" with this poor puppy's life.


Ok, I’m very sorry for the poor choice of the “goofing around” phrasing. I merely meant that time spent treating the wrong thing is time not getting to the bottom of what the correct thing is. I didn’t mean to raise your ire. 

And yes, I was actually thinking of sending you a PM to see if I could send you some vet money. But I don’t think I could afford to send you the whole bill, and that got me to thinking of the go fund me idea. People actually do that, which blows my mind. 

And I do also have to admit that there was criticism of not taking her to the vet. I apologize for that too, because you are right, I don’t have experience with that particular problem.


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## rachels.haven (Dec 23, 2020)

Our Badger disaster puppy came with severely bowed legs. Apparently he'd been on a raw food diet that wasn't properly balanced for a growing large breed (???!). They corrected after a few months of growing on Iams large breed puppy. I'm not endorsing the brand, but a boring balanced diet and time should fix that. To my adult I feed Victor Professional. I think the Iams LG breed puppy was even lower in protein, and about the same price, very palatable in all it's awful commercial-ness and for the short time of fast growing part of puppyhood it should do no harm. Walmart or Chewy should be able to deliver it to you if you can't get out.


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## Beekissed (Dec 23, 2020)

rachels.haven said:


> Our Badger disaster puppy came with severely bowed legs. Apparently he'd been on a raw food diet that wasn't properly balanced for a growing large breed. They corrected after a few months of growing on Iams large breed puppy. I'm not endorsing the brand, but a boring balanced diet and time should fix that.



What did your vet say about it?  And thank you for responding...you give me hope!   I will buy any brand of food that will help, as I've never had this issue in a puppy before now.  They've all ate the same thing and grew well and strong on it.


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## rachels.haven (Dec 23, 2020)

My vet didn't come out right away if my memory serves, so it may have already been well on the way to correcting, although he did ask and approve our food choice for the puppy so I'm suspicious he noticed something and wanted to make sure we weren't keeping it going, and wasn't concerned with it beyond that. Large breed dogs are notoriously difficult to feed (and it can vary from individual to individual dog and growth period to growth period). I think the important thing is that you catch it before it goes on too long so he can grow out of it. It may also correct faster than I remember. I just remember all I could think about when he walked or stood for a while were his crooked front legs and waiting for them to normalize.

Badger was a level two on this page, but because he was an 8 week old pyr mix and not a dane his legs were shorter and fatter. We didn't wrap anything. I'm not sure I have a picture of our dog standing with it because...he didn't stand much until it corrected. *face palm* the dane lady page has lots of info from her experience if you want to go through it for any info you want to use. I'm not sure how good the info is, but the pictures are good examples.





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Iams, hill's, and even not-my-favorite purina may have a large breed puppy appropriate food.

(and gee, was I dumb, I think as I write this, obviously there was a problem with my puppy situation from the start)


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## rachels.haven (Dec 23, 2020)

and sorry if my reply is a bit fractured. I have the joys of parenting during covid going on in the background.


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## Beekissed (Dec 23, 2020)

rachels.haven said:


> My vet didn't come out right away if my memory serves, so it may have already been well on the way to correcting, although he did ask and approve our food choice for the puppy so I'm suspicious he noticed something and wanted to make sure we weren't keeping it going, and wasn't concerned with it beyond that. Large breed dogs are notoriously difficult to feed (and it can vary from individual to individual dog and growth period to growth period). I think the important thing is that you catch it before it goes on too long so he can grow out of it. It may also correct faster than I remember. I just remember all I could think about when he walked or stood for a while were his crooked front legs and waiting for them to normalize.
> 
> Badger was a level two on this page, but because he was an 8 week old pyr mix and not a dane his legs were shorter and fatter. We didn't wrap anything. I'm not sure I have a picture of our dog standing with it because...he didn't stand much until it corrected. *face palm* the dane lady page has lots of info from her experience if you want to go through it for any info you want to use. I'm not sure how good the info is, but the pictures are good examples.
> 
> ...



No sorry needed!  It's perfect!    And I understand completely.  I'll be looking at that site and today I'll be picking up a specific feed for the pup, as well as switching her current milk to buttermilk to culture her bowel...I'm beginning to think she has a slight absorption problem also, so have wormed her and will give her some good probiotics through the buttermilk.  

Just the one leg bowed now but it does seem to hinder her.  Her little legs are thicker than Blue's legs, so I know she's going to be a bigger dog than he is.... I think she just grew too fast on that high pro feed I had her on for a week.  

I figured the vet would just recommend a certain feed and that was one reason I didn't rush her right to the vet...it's obviously diet/nutrition related due to how it evidenced upon the change in food.  Your reply helps me confirm that initial assessment and so I thank you!  

How old is your Badger pup and how is he doing now?


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## Beekissed (Dec 23, 2020)

rachels.haven said:


> My vet didn't come out right away if my memory serves, so it may have already been well on the way to correcting, although he did ask and approve our food choice for the puppy so I'm suspicious he noticed something and wanted to make sure we weren't keeping it going, and wasn't concerned with it beyond that. Large breed dogs are notoriously difficult to feed (and it can vary from individual to individual dog and growth period to growth period). I think the important thing is that you catch it before it goes on too long so he can grow out of it. It may also correct faster than I remember. I just remember all I could think about when he walked or stood for a while were his crooked front legs and waiting for them to normalize.
> 
> Badger was a level two on this page, but because he was an 8 week old pyr mix and not a dane his legs were shorter and fatter. We didn't wrap anything. I'm not sure I have a picture of our dog standing with it because...he didn't stand much until it corrected. *face palm* the dane lady page has lots of info from her experience if you want to go through it for any info you want to use. I'm not sure how good the info is, but the pictures are good examples.
> 
> ...



That site has been most helpful and the first cause listed for this was the exact thing I did...I mixed different kinds of dog food at a 50/50 and after 4-5 days of eating it, this appeared.  From their scale she is a level 2....I'd really love to splint her with vet wrap but in her current living conditions, I couldn't keep it from getting wet.   Especially with the weather coming up in the next few days.


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## rachels.haven (Dec 23, 2020)

Badger had to be put down at 10 months unfortunately, which is genetic unfortunately. The way he reacted to the seizures made him unsafe to place in a pet home. He went after animals and people right before as if we were doing it to him and I didn't feel good about a potentially 180+ lbs dog that needed to be a house dog going out in the world like a time bomb if his medications ever stopped working or needed adjusting even if we did get them working and the seizures controlled completely. It was an extremely heart rending, traumatic time, but I think we had the best outcome we could have expected in the situation. I doubted myself right up to as we were leaving on the one way trip to the vet when he decided to go after my husband and split the man's lip. My husband never had a negative interaction with him in his whole life either so there was no reason for the turn.

I'm chocking the whole incident up to being in an area where a lot of people breed LGD's, and a lot of them shouldn't (or at least that's what I'm telling myself, lol).

Physically he was perfect though-beautiful dog with perfect sound legs, so if we're dealing with the same issue, feed is the key with your dog and it will correct, likely even without wrapping.


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## Hipshot (Dec 23, 2020)

What was the protein content of your puppy feed?.What I would do is use a cheaper feed and deworm the pup .It would be more helpful if you had charted growth weight of  the pup .Feel pretty sure the protein might be the culprit .Real easy to over grow muscle. Keep in mind that high price dose not make a feed good .I use puppy chow for about 12 weeks then switch them over to
Retriever. I use TSC Retriever mix the 25 % with the 21% 50/50 .When we have an abundance of surplus eggs .The dogs get 2 hard boiled eggs a feeding.I don't want to tell you to starve the pup . At a year old large breeds should only weigh about 75% of thier adult weight .By the time they are 2 they should have reached full bone and body mass .
Stay away from wet food .Compare feeds and slow down .For a while dry food and water might be your best choice.Never had a dog that I raised have rickets. I am either lucky are doing  something right .Hope the pup is doing well today.


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## Beekissed (Dec 23, 2020)

rachels.haven said:


> Badger had to be put down at 10 months unfortunately, which is genetic unfortunately. The way he reacted to the seizures made him unsafe to place in a pet home. He went after animals and people right before as if we were doing it to him and I didn't feel good about a potentially 180+ lbs dog that needed to be a house dog going out in the world like a time bomb if his medications ever stopped working or needed adjusting even if we did get them working and the seizures controlled completely. It was an extremely heart rending, traumatic time, but I think we had the best outcome we could have expected in the situation. I doubted myself right up to as we were leaving on the one way trip to the vet when he decided to go after my husband and split the man's lip. My husband never had a negative interaction with him in his whole life either so there was no reason for the turn.
> 
> I'm chocking the whole incident up to being in an area where a lot of people breed LGD's, and a lot of them shouldn't (or at least that's what I'm telling myself, lol).
> 
> Physically he was perfect though-beautiful dog with perfect sound legs, so if we're dealing with the same issue, feed is the key with your dog and it will correct, likely even without wrapping.



I remember that story now and agreed with your assessment of what needed to be done.  Too dangerous a situation.   

You have no idea how much you helped me on this issue and I thank God there are good folks on this forum who are willing to help with their own experiences and with links to good information.     This pup has so many good qualities I didn't want her to get off track in all of this mix up in feeds.  I finally have two good working dogs on the land and I really want to see how that all plays out.  

Got some vet wrap today to support that one joint that's buckling and will change it out every other day and check for changes.  

Bought Nutrena Loyall large breed puppy food~ https://www.nutrenaworld.com/product/loyall-life-large-breed-puppy-chicken-brown-rice

~as it seemed the best value for the price and ingredients and seemed to have better nutrients than the Iams and Hills, even had prebiotics and probiotics they didn't have.  The reviews were good also, so I'll give a report here as to how it all worked.  As of tomorrow I'll  not be adding any additional supplements, but will rely solely on the dog food to balance her out.  Can't wait to see her get back to sturdy, strong legs once more!


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## Baymule (Dec 23, 2020)

Hipshot said:


> What was the protein content of your puppy feed?.What I would do is use a cheaper feed and deworm the pup .It would be more helpful if you had charted growth weight of  the pup .Feel pretty sure the protein might be the culprit .Real easy to over grow muscle. Keep in mind that high price dose not make a feed good .I use puppy chow for about 12 weeks then switch them over to
> Retriever. I use TSC Retriever mix the 25 % with the 21% 50/50 .When we have an abundance of surplus eggs .The dogs get 2 hard boiled eggs a feeding.I don't want to tell you to starve the pup . At a year old large breeds should only weigh about 75% of thier adult weight .By the time they are 2 they should have reached full bone and body mass .
> Stay away from wet food .Compare feeds and slow down .For a while dry food and water might be your best choice.Never had a dog that I raised have rickets. I am either lucky are doing  something right .Hope the pup is doing well today.




I use the TSC Retriever brand too. I also can chicken (buy leg quarters on sale) for the dogs. When we take animals to slaughter, I get the offal, heart, liver and can that too. When we process Cornish Cross chickens, I can the heart, liver, gizzards, necks, skin, fat and wing tips with rice for the dogs. Husband feeds the dogs, 1 quart split between 5 dogs, mixed with their kibble. I'm down to about a dozen jars of chicken and rice, leg quarters need to go on sale again!


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## Ridgetop (Dec 26, 2020)

Adding extra calcium without the other ingredients needed for assimilation of the calcium won't help.  You need to add the correct ratio of calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, and Vitamin D.  Without the correct combination the calcium will not be absorbed and will be worthless no matter how much you add.

At any rate, adding simple Calcium won't do much without the addition of Phosphorus, Magnesium, and Vita D in the right proportions.  

Large breed dogs that grow too fast can develop problems.  I have had 2 LGDs - males - that developed limps in separate legs at different times from "growing pains".  My vet prescribed a temporary pain killer and had me control the amount of protein to slow down the growth.  *I never had any problem with bowed legs though.  That sounds definitely like rickets - which results from Vitamin D deficiency. * It can still be seen in many 3rd world populations.  

When making chicken and rice dog food you can add bones (chicken necks) since you will either use a pressure cooker or during the canning process at the high temps needed, the bones become soft, enabling them to be eaten without danger by the dogs.  I used to make a dog food additive for my kibble when showing my hunting dogs.  I used chicken necks, eggplant (I can't remember why this was added but it had some vitamin benefit) and rice.  I cooed it in the pressure cooker until the bones were soft, then froze it.  I didn't have a canner at that time.  I also traded this off with raw meat by products which I added to Nutro kibble. This was 50 years ago and Nutro was the best rice based kibble on the market (possibly the only one then - LOL).   

I added calcium, phosphorus, Vita D, and powdered yeast separately along with a "MiraGlo" oil vitamin for coat.  (People showing dogs are crazy with what they add for a wining coat.  LOL)  The powdered yeast kept them from getting any fleas too.  I think it is high in Vita B.  I used to take Vita B complex and Vita C and never was bitten by mosquitos, or any bugs.  I think Vita B is a natural bug repellent when ingested.  When raising puppies I added eggs and cottage cheese to their food too.

Hope this helps.


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## Baymule (Dec 26, 2020)

Crealcritter said:


> 🐔 Inards and rice - do you have a recipe or process, please?



Here ya' go. 





__





						Canning Dog Food From Offal
					

We sent 4 lambs to slaughter and I got the liver, heart and kidneys from all four. Today I canned dog food from them. I cooked and diced the meat. I also had a bag of chicken necks in the freezer so I tossed them in too. It made a rich broth.   I put a half cup of cooked rice in each jar, along...



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## Beekissed (Dec 31, 2020)

Very happy to report that Pinky's legs are straightening right up!  She loves the puppy food and she doesn't like the leg wraps so much and will tear them off if she can get a tooth hold on them, but mostly they are staying in place enough to give her good support.   She's wearing them on both legs to support both joints there and I can already see a big difference there.  I'll get pics when it's not so rainy and sloppy out...supposed to rain and snow for the next couple of days here.  

So, YAY for home vetting and a good community of helpful people to make it possible!


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## Ridgetop (Dec 31, 2020)

So happy her legs are improving.


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## Baymule (Dec 31, 2020)

That is great news! This is a great forum, the best place on the internet.


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## Beekissed (Jan 1, 2021)

It's amazing to me that she showed these symptoms in less than a week on the dog food mix mistake and it's been a week on the good food to correct it~no other supplements except a couple of days with buttermilk.   She's still growing in leaps and bounds but, having the right balance of nutrition for large breed pups, is not seeming to suffer from the rapid growth.  

I thank God for the quick recovery...been praying for this pup every day for this malady.  She's such a good LGD, so bonded with and loved by her sheep, that I didn't want to mess that up in any way.  She amazes me every day with her incredible instincts on how to guard the sheep along with Blue...the perfect partner for him.


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## Baymule (Jan 1, 2021)

You have your perfect working dogs. Life is good. God brings his blessings.


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## Beekissed (Jan 2, 2021)

As of this morning I didn't reapply Pinky's leg wraps.  She's been chewing them off anyway and only had just the scrap of one left on one leg this morning.  Her legs look straight and she's moving easily and strongly on both legs...even jumping up to guard with Blue on top of the pallet pile.   I'll continue to monitor and reapply wraps if she seems to need support but for now she's doing wonderfully!  

Please excuse the muddy ground next to this gate....it's a high traffic area and we've had two days of continual rain.  Yes, I know that wrap is below the joint....what is left of it.     It WAS supporting the joint and the areas above and below it, but she chewed off all she could.


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## thistlebloom (Jan 2, 2021)

She's a beautiful girl, so glad her legs are back to normal.

Your mud is excused.   😄


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## Baymule (Jan 2, 2021)

Pinkie Pie is such a pretty girl! Sooo glad that her leg is straightened back up and that she is doing so well. That doesn't look like much mud!


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## Beekissed (Jan 2, 2021)

Baymule said:


> Pinkie Pie is such a pretty girl! Sooo glad that her leg is straightened back up and that she is doing so well. That doesn't look like much mud!



I'm so glad too!  Thank you for all your help and support on this, Bay!       I'm thanking God for her recovery as well....it was so pitiful to see her walking like that and I couldn't help but feel responsible for it.  It's simply lovely to see her running, jumping up on high things and standing square on those front legs.  

That's more mud than I like to see!  We've got a lot of expose earth since the logging and it's bugging me like crazy!  It's like seeing someone with their skin peeled back....never healthy, never good for the soil and water just runs off, taking topsoil with it.  Can't wait to get a bale roller made and start rolling out these mulch bales on any and all bare spots I see.


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## Beekissed (Jan 3, 2021)

The true proof of Pinky's recovery was what I witnessed today...she was playing with Blue.   Rough, running, wrestling and jumping with Blue and that's the first time I've seen her do that.  Every time he would attempt to play with her before she would yelp loudly and he would leave her alone.  They've been playing hard for a couple of hours now, off and on, and Blue is finally ensconced on the round bales, safe from puppy mayhem.   Good to see!


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## Baymule (Jan 4, 2021)

Pinkie has recovered!


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## Beekissed (Jan 4, 2021)

Baymule said:


> Pinkie has recovered!



You got it exactly right, Bay...that's exactly how I feel!  It was so pitiful to see her trying to run and walk on those buckled joints and I'm simply amazed at how quickly she was restored to full use!   Just on feeding the right dog food, deworming and supporting her joints for a few days and she's back and growing like a weed. 

Today she was strong enough to play with Blue for a long, long time and also to pull him off of Shine when he was trying to stop Shine from walking away.   

Those emojis depict exactly how I feel to see her straight and strong.  I keep thanking God for it all and feeling blessed to the max.


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## Beekissed (Jan 20, 2021)

Update on Pinky's legs.  That bag of dog food is nearly gone now and Pinky's legs have indeed straightened and strengthened, with no signs of lasting damage from her brief stint of rubber legs.  Pics of Pinky now, at 4.5 mo. of age, with her work partner, Blue, 1.5 yrs of age.










And Pinky finally gets the lying down and waiting for her food...took her awhile to do it consistently and without squirming, but now she does it quicker than Blue does. 






From now on, any pups I get here will start out on that type of dog food if I can continue to find it.  It's been great, she loves it and she's in peak physical health.   Best outcome!
.


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## Baymule (Jan 22, 2021)

Awww..... they both look so sweet, waiting on their food! Sentry ALWAYS sits, wiggly and excited, but sits. Sheba-NOT! When we had out grand daughters last weekend, the youngest took Sentry's bowl to feed him. I told her to tell him to sit, she did and he did. I told her to tell him to take it, she did and he did. She liked that. 

Pinkie is looking so healthy and strong. She is a lovely pup and is making an awesome dog.


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## Beekissed (Jan 22, 2021)

Baymule said:


> Awww..... they both look so sweet, waiting on their food! Sentry ALWAYS sits, wiggly and excited, but sits. Sheba-NOT! When we had out grand daughters last weekend, the youngest took Sentry's bowl to feed him. I told her to tell him to sit, she did and he did. I told her to tell him to take it, she did and he did. She liked that.
> 
> Pinkie is looking so healthy and strong. She is a lovely pup and is making an awesome dog.



Isn't it cool when they "get it"?   It took this pup so very long...the very first time, she laid down like she knew what to do.  Every time after that, no way.....she just couldn't grasp the concept for so long and no amount of training like I had used with the other dogs yielded anything in her  mind.  Finally, I just kept taking her bowl back every time she moved and would let Blue start eating because he waited properly.   Well, that finally got her attention and the light came on.   Now she lays down before he does!  

I love letting the grandgirls help in feeding...it really helps the dogs get used to little ones being around their food while they are eating.  I monitor it closely so the dogs could never lunge out unexpectedly towards the girls.  Much like your good dog, Sentry, these dogs will sit and lie down for the girls but no amount of them saying the release word will get those dogs to budge an inch.  That always frustrates Aliza.   She just doesn't understand why that happens that way.  

Bay, I still haven't leash trained Pinky...she screams and makes such a fuss that I need to schedule blocks of time to tame that wild animal and I just haven't had the time lately.  The other dogs I had time of a morning to do a little leash training each day and just a little training here and there did it.  I've never had one scream and squall like she does...she's a whole other breed of cat.


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## Baymule (Jan 22, 2021)

What about a long leash, just clip it on and let her drag it for awhile, while you are out there with her. Give her a treat, if she will take it. Then unclip the leash, praise her profusely. 

Granddaughter #3 helped me feed Sheba too. Sheba had a bone and a tiny, very quiet growl came from Sheba. I very calmly scolded her, took the bone out of her mouth and fussed at her. She was crushed. Sentry did the same thing, all it took was one low key scolding. Anatolians are awesome.


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## Beekissed (Jan 22, 2021)

Baymule said:


> What about a long leash, just clip it on and let her drag it for awhile, while you are out there with her. Give her a treat, if she will take it. Then unclip the leash, praise her profusely.
> 
> Granddaughter #3 helped me feed Sheba too. Sheba had a bone and a tiny, very quiet growl came from Sheba. I very calmly scolded her, took the bone out of her mouth and fussed at her. She was crushed. Sentry did the same thing, all it took was one low key scolding. Anatolians are awesome.


 Yes, they are!  Very intelligently frustrating.  She don't mind wearing a leash it's just when it restricts her movement that she screams.  All other dogs I've leashed trained "get it" within a few short minutes...you walk, the leash isn't tight.  You walk without pulling you get treats and lots of praise.  She doesn't seem to get it.  I think she may be a left brain dog.     She'd likely drag a leash all day long and not care...but pick it up to direct her in a direction, then the screaming, squalling and rolling on the ground commences.  Never saw such a drama queen in all my life!  I'll have to try different tactics on her, most likely, than I have with the others...she is much more stubborn.  These females are way different than the males, I'm finding.  

Blue, on the other hand, is WAY too smart for his own good.  We've been having to apply the shock collar for something he's been doing, but he knows when he's wearing it, then doesn't do the bad thing...he also knows if the battery is dead or if we aren't home to give the correction, then he proceeds to do the bad behavior.   So, it's very hard to use the shock collar to correct this dog.  

You are WAY more patient than I am, Bay....that first tiny growl gets a huge escalation from me.  Over the top, surprising, unforgettable and anything but calm.  I've never had one of the dogs growl at the girls but they'd likely wake up in the next week if they did.  I start pups out with me messing in their feed bowl while they eat...if they growl they get a bark/growl and a body flip far away from the bowl, then I stand over the food so they can't come back until I let them.  Then I let them, but put my hand back in the bowl and mess with the food while they eat.  Haven't had any of them growl again after that.  So far, only the females have growled that first growl, that I can recall.  It's always the girls, huh?


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## Baymule (Jan 23, 2021)

Yes, our girls are very smart and very stubborn. Such a challenge! So rewarding when the light goes on and they get it. Pinkie has learned to throw a screaming fit and she wins. You are just going to have to out last her.


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## Beekissed (Jan 23, 2021)

Baymule said:


> Yes, our girls are very smart and very stubborn. Such a challenge! So rewarding when the light goes on and they get it. Pinkie has learned to throw a screaming fit and she wins. You are just going to have to out last her.


Yes....I think that's the key with this one.  Persistence and maybe changing tactics...the ones that work with other dogs just aren't going to work with this one.  I'll have to make her think that walking on the leash is her idea.


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## rachels.haven (Jan 23, 2021)

Not sure this will work, but have you tried tying her to another dog and walking that dog on a leash and going on a high rewards walk? Or lead her with another dog or two on a walk? Sometimes they really HATE getting left behind especially if that herd/pack power is there motivating them like an invisible leash and they care less about being led.


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## Beekissed (Jan 23, 2021)

rachels.haven said:


> Not sure this will work, but have you tried tying her to another dog and walking that dog on a leash and going on a high rewards walk? Or lead her with another dog or two on a walk? Sometimes they really HATE getting left behind especially if that herd/pack power is there motivating them like an invisible leash and they care less about being led.


I haven't tried that yet but was contemplating it, most definitely.  The last training session I did, when she started screaming about walking on the leash, Blue finally had enough and snarled and lunged at her.  That shut her up real quick, so I'm thinking about walking them together when next I train but haven't gotten to it yet.


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## Baymule (Jan 23, 2021)

That’s like hitching an old horse and a young horse together. I like it.


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## thistlebloom (Jan 23, 2021)

Also walk her towards where she wants to be. Like her sheep. Build on tiny successes.


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## Beekissed (Jan 23, 2021)

thistlebloom said:


> Also walk her towards where she wants to be. Like her sheep. Build on tiny successes.


Will do that!  Thank you, T!


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## Cecilia's-herd (May 12, 2021)

rachels.haven said:


> Our Badger disaster puppy came with severely bowed legs. Apparently he'd been on a raw food diet that wasn't properly balanced for a growing large breed (???!). They corrected after a few months of growing on Iams large breed puppy. I'm not endorsing the brand, but a boring balanced diet and time should fix that. To my adult I feed Victor Professional. I think the Iams LG breed puppy was even lower in protein, and about the same price, very palatable in all it's awful commercial-ness and for the short time of fast growing part of puppyhood it should do no harm. Walmart or Chewy should be able to deliver it to you if you can't get out.


We love victor over here!!


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