# Does anyone else...



## OneFineAcre (Aug 18, 2015)

Find it difficult to bite their tongue when someone joins this forum who is "thinking" about buying a farm and getting livestock in 6-8 months still doesn't own any livestock but is now an expert on the care and feeding of livestock ?


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## mikiz (Aug 18, 2015)

Depends, are they claiming to be an expert or just giving an informed, well researched opinion?


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 18, 2015)

mikiz said:


> Depends, are they claiming to be an expert or just giving an informed, well researched opinion?


Just opinion
I would call it neither well informed or researched
Since they have no actual experience and offer nothing to validate their statements I think it would be best they preference with " I don't actually own goats but I think you should.,.."


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## mikiz (Aug 18, 2015)

How do you know they have no experience?


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 18, 2015)

I've always said that there are 3stages of animal ownership.

1.  You know nothing.
2.  You think know everything.
3.  You finally know enough to know that you don't know enough!

Hard to get to #3 without a lot of years of experience.  Just my opinion....


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## mikiz (Aug 18, 2015)

The learning is the fun part, why would anyone even want to think they know everything?


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 18, 2015)

Well it's pretty easy to read through their posts from when they first joined and they said they had no experience
And then when they compare a human child to a goat.,,,
Candy to feed ?
When someone humanizes livestock they prove their opinions to be neither well researched nor informed


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 18, 2015)

frustratedearthmother said:


> I've always said that there are 3stages of animal ownership.
> 
> 1.  You know nothing.
> 2.  You think know everything.
> ...


Ownership being the key word there
Feel bad for people who join and get "advice" from people who don't own any


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 18, 2015)

True!


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## mikiz (Aug 18, 2015)

Humans are animals too you know 
Maybe they're just terrible at communication.

Done beating around the bush, since it's so obvious. 
For once I thought I found a place people could learn, give their findings, or give ideas, and not get bashed for it, apparently not. 

I can tell you most of what I've given as advice comes from people who HAVE years of experience, or from academic studies, never once (that I can recall) have I said it was my personal experience nor have I claimed to be an expert. 
I do have hands-on experience with livestock, I even have a certificate to prove it. 
Just because I can't _afford_ to keep the animals I've spent the past 15-20 years learning about doesn't mean I don't know anything at all. 

I feel sorry for the people who need to ask the questions that a quick google will bring up 100+ entries on how _experienced _farmers or animal owners have dealt with it, what worked and what didn't and why. 

I will never know everything there is to know about any livestock, nobody ever will, but that doesn't mean I can't help find the answers or give another outlook on things. 

Shall I put an "i do not own livestock" disclaimer in my sig to keep the expert keepers happy?


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 18, 2015)

mikiz said:


> Humans are animals too you know
> Maybe they're just terrible at communication.
> 
> Done beating around the bush, since it's so obvious.
> ...


Oh I'm not an expert 
Far, far from it 
But I know why a cheetah eats the liver first and it's not because it tastes better than steak
And I know why a goat eats grain first over hay
Because it is higher in calories and protein
Why do deer eat acorns when they fall on the ground?
Same reason
They eat the best available food when they can


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## mikiz (Aug 18, 2015)

Ok, I was wrong, it was a bad example, and yes I hate being told so, but I can learn from this, what happens when they have too much? 
They still need moderation. They're not supposed to have it all the time, exactly because of how high in nutrients it is, otherwise what is grain toxicity caused by? To me that's logical, if it's not true no matter how logical, please educate me.


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## jk47 (Aug 19, 2015)

thats why I always say in my personal experience when I answer questions because I am no expert 
Its just what I do with my livestock 
And theres a reason why you never see me posting in any other part of this site but the pig area because I have raised enough pigs to give basic advice and if I am not confident enough with my knowledge then I dont try to add my own 2cents in


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## mikiz (Aug 19, 2015)

I should know to just keep my thoughts in my head and hands away from the keyboard by now, it's not the first time I've gotten into a disagreement with someone online simply because I haven't had a personal experience of something and my (over?)confidence in what I do know. That, my severe lacking in communication skills and inability to see things the way other people see.


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## samssimonsays (Aug 19, 2015)

Does anyone else find it difficult to bite their tongue when you post a "happy post" and others chime in and say you are doing it wrong without ever personally seeing and or laying  a hand on your animals? Or how about just down right scoffs and thinks others know nothing or are not experienced enough to share their knowledge? 

This post was childish and very immature. Instead of going to the one you have the issue with you post it here in the open? 

I joined for advice on my new journey into goats and found a community that was open and welcoming. Since then I have found certain members to be picking apart not just me but others as well. 

And for the record, everyone starts somewhere and we are all learning. There is no cookie cutter way to do things. I humanize my goats and animals because they are family pets, this does not mean they are at the same level as humans in our home but they are family first. The dogs, cat and rabbits get Christmas gifts and yes, the goats will as well. I do not take shame in this. They are our children, our responsibility and our life. We do what we feel is right for our family and are constantly learning different and better ways.


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## greybeard (Aug 19, 2015)

Interesting.
Experience is known as "the best teacher" but the part left unsaid is that successful experiences are almost always preceded by failure.

Most people would be appalled at the number of times a vet has looked at an animal, and not known from past experience how to treat it, but researched on line or otherwise and found the correct treatment protocol--and we all accept that. Medical doctors for us and our families are the same way--no doctor has had hands on/in experience with every malady that comes to us or our loved ones, but the medical field is chock full of research assets for them to fall back on, and we  certainly accept that, even in life threatening cases.

In today's agriculture world, the "answer" is usually but a few clicks away, and we generally accept the answers we find as gospel, tho we really have no proof at all if they are based on fact or fiction.

Universities give various degrees to people who have learned all they know from non-hands on research, and companies around the world hire them based on exactly that knowledge.

If I have a problem, and hear anecdotal evidence from one person, but research shows a different and much more commonly accepted solution, I tend to ignore the anecdotal evidence.

Does it really matter if it is my research or someone else's?
Not one bit.


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## Bossroo (Aug 19, 2015)

We as humans care for our animals in a husbandlike manner who in turn provide us with food and fiber as payment for our good care of them as well as satisfaction in  a job well done.  When one humanizes their animals , that is the first step into financial and moral  irrisponsibility to our own human family.


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## HeidiO (Aug 19, 2015)

greybeard said:


> Interesting.
> Experience is known as "the best teacher" but the part left unsaid is that successful experiences are almost always preceded by failure.
> 
> Most people would be appalled at the number of times a vet has looked at an animal, and not known from past experience how to treat it, but researched on line or otherwise and found the correct treatment protocol--and we all accept that. Medical doctors for us and our families are the same way--no doctor has had hands on/in experience with every malady that comes to us or our loved ones, but the medical field is chock full of research assets for them to fall back on, and we  certainly accept that, even in life threatening cases.
> ...



  I  agree, the only thing I'd add is that professionals almost always have someone testing them/certifying them.  Though that does not make them an expert. 
   I've had both my Dr. and my Vet admit they either had to go look something up, or just that they did not know.  I've also seen "experienced" professionals bumble their way through also.  
  I am not saying anyone here is right or wrong.  I have given advice on things I haven't experienced first hand, (I usually try to remember to admit that).  But I figure if somebody is asking a question they either can't find the answer online, or just want others input on their options.  
  Also, this is a rather passive aggressive way of personally attacking someone.


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## elevan (Aug 19, 2015)

Moderator Comment:
This forum is for EVERYONE - those who are raising their animals as pets and those who are raising their animals as general livestock (work / food).  And EVERYONE brings SOMETHING to the table whether or not they own or just work with or even just dream of owning.  Making others feel unwelcome here is not acceptable and will not be tolerated for any reason.


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