# Boer Breeders what do you think of this buck?



## chels24 (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm looking for a boer jr herdsire and there is a nice breeder a couple hrs away from me that I'm thinking of buying a buckling from. I need some opinions though from other breeders. The sire  Bon Joli dappled Michelangelo and the mom is sired by War Paint. The breeder is selling him cheaper than his brother because he's smaller than him. 

The first pic is the buckling in the second pic he's on the left and his full brother is on the right. So what do you think? My husband isn't any help so I would like honest opinions good or bad.


----------



## Roll farms (Jun 21, 2011)

What's his teat structure like?

I have to admit, I *do* prefer the brother, he's got more depth, rump, and muscling...and SPOTS....BUT...your boy could too, in another month.  He's not 'bad' looking, just not as sharp as his brother.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jun 21, 2011)

He looks like he is down on his front pasturns to me in that first picture. Are you saying brothers as in twins from this year?  I would spend the money and get the dominant buckling. 

If there is a big difference in price, perhaps you are willing to take a chance, perhaps he is not doing as well, because of a group situation, but when it comes to a herd sire, why start with the weaker one. 

are they both correct teated?  Is mom and dad correct teated? 
Nice horn set on both of them.
correct scrotum on the one brother, can't see the other one.


----------



## chels24 (Jun 21, 2011)

His teat structure is 1X1. I like his brother more also, but he is also $900 more. They are twins from this year and just turned 12 weeks.

The mother has correct teats (she's in the background of the top pic) and I'm not sure about the dad, but I haven't heard of any of his kids having bad teats. 

I noticed it looked like he was down on his pasturns in the first pic also, but in the rest of the pictures she sent me he isn't standing like that.


----------



## carolinagirl (Jun 21, 2011)

This herd sire is half of everything you will produce.  Get the best you can afford.  The larger brother is a much nicer animal all around!

edit because we posted at the same time.  $900 more??? eek!!! That is a HUGE chunk of money.  How many does will you be breeding with him?


----------



## chels24 (Jun 21, 2011)

Well the breeder priced him at $300 for me, so the brother is 1200. I don't have that many does. This year I would probably only breed him to a couple does and next year breed him to all of them. At the moment I only have 10 does though. I don't know if I can justify buying a 1200 dollar buck for 10 does. That's why I'm not sure which buck I want to get. She has a couple more red bucks with spotted genetics that will be for sale next month, but they will definitely be over 1000. What to do?


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jun 21, 2011)

Hmm......  I would get him for 300 and see what his kids look like, perhaps he has enough of the good genetics in him, that you will get some really nice kids, If he doesn't throw what you are hoping for you can always resell him for the 300 bucks, with the solid red color and his genetics, you will easily get that for him.  

You will beable to tell by the time the kids are 6 months old if their growth rate is acceptable and they are carrying enough frame. 

A shot of Bo-se might improve his pasturns.


----------



## carolinagirl (Jun 21, 2011)

OK....so you have  10 does.  If each one has twins, that's 20 kids he will sire.  So take that $1200 and divide that by 20 and the brother will add $60 in cost to each kid he produces this first year.  The smaller buck will add $15 to the cost of each of your kids.  Is it worth that?  Are you trying to build your herd and keep some of the does for future breeding?  That's a question only you can answer.  I like the brother a lot and chances are if i could afford him and if I was planning to keep his daughters to grow my herd, I might be tempted to buy him.  Is that the going price for a herd-sire buck?  that I can't answer.  They do have the same genetics so the smaller brother will pass along the parent's genes, even if he does not show those traits himself.


----------



## chels24 (Jun 21, 2011)

Here is another picture she sent me:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




My thought is aside from his brother if I was just looking at him and not thinking about what his brother looked like would I think he's a nice looking buck that will add to my herd? Is he worth the price? I wish I hadn't seen the pic of his brother because it's hard not to compare the two.

With the number of does I have I would have to wait two years to make money back on the brother (since I wouldn't be breeding him to all my does the first year). With the cheaper buck I could make my money back next year with the sale of one kid. I could then use the money I get the next year off his kids save and buy a better buck. The thing is the breeder told me the only reason he's cheaper is because he doesn't have spots. The lady had 80% bucklings and wants to move them out. Sadly in my area spots sell regardless of how the buck is built.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jun 21, 2011)

Spots and reds are all selling regardless of how they are built, that is why I am sticking with traditionals for now. 

He still looks weak in his front legs, but for 300 you probably can't go wrong. He seems to have a nice top-line and nice muscling. I would go for it, unless after looking at his sire's and dam's legs you are seeing a true weak pasturn problem, then you may wish to look else where. Weak pasturns are pretty easy to breed out, but they are also easy to breed in.  Unless you have your heart set on a paint buck, you can get a pretty solid traditional for 300 to 500.


----------



## Roll farms (Jun 21, 2011)

I say go for it, too (unless either parent is down in the pasturns).

He may well throw awesome kids that look like his brother.  He may not.

But his brother could also throw 7 teated monsters.  Genetics are a crapshoot and I agree w/ your logic.  

You have to start *somewhere*.  May as well be somewhere affordable.


----------



## doxiemoxie (Jun 21, 2011)

I think he's good looking (great looking!) except for those pasterns.  Especially the left. (are we horrible to criticize? sorry)  It really is noticeable.  Did they have to pull him or is there another explanation for them?  Did you see both his parents?

The price is reasonable and if you aren't looking for uber breeding lines (showing) but for production he may very well work great.  I would want to see him move before I got him though and be very hesitant to breed back any of his lines.

If your ultimate goal is for a really good herd sire though I say just go for what you want now.  Invest your money once.  On the other hand, if  I was going for a production herd I would buy him if he wasn't lame because he has good lineage and otherwise looks to be good conformation.


----------



## RPC (Jun 21, 2011)

I say go for it. He seems to be a nice looking buck besides his pasterns. With the genetics being there he could end up making some really nice kids. My buck was a little smaller and a little slow growing but the 2 kids I have on the ground from him are doing awesome. Atleast I think so. His buckling was 25 pounds at 23 days old and was only about 7 pounds at birth. Good luck with whatever you decide but I think he is worth the 300 dollars. Plus with the spotted gene in there you may end up with some spotted babies you can sell for double what you paid for him.


----------



## chels24 (Jun 21, 2011)

Thanks everybody for the advice. I checked out pics of his parents and went though pics of others on their pedigree including kids from each of them and didn't find any that had weak pasturns. So maybe his will get better with Bo-Se. I agree that even if he doesn't work out for me he would for someone else and I could still get at least what I paid for him. I think he's a good start for someone like me on a budget.


----------



## jodief100 (Jun 22, 2011)

I have to play devils advocate here.  By himself, he is a decent looking buck.  I would like to see a better hind shot but overall not bad.  

My concern is about the breeder.  A good breeder only sells their best boys as bucks and this boy is obviously not one of the best.  I wonder what else they do that is not quite up to my personal standards. 

Keep in mind I would NEVER pay $1200 for a buck and I dont care how good he is.   I have some very nice bucks I got for $350.  Of course, mine dont have spots.  I just cannot justify the extra cost for decoration.  Your market may be different.  

Getting him or not really depends on what your market is and what you can charge.  Your herd management also plays a role.

I would find another breeder.  That may not be the right choice for you but that is what I would do.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Jun 22, 2011)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> I have to play devils advocate here.  By himself, he is a decent looking buck.  I would like to see a better hind shot but overall not bad.
> 
> My concern is about the breeder.  A good breeder only sells their best boys as bucks and this boy is obviously not one of the best.  I wonder what else they do that is not quite up to my personal standards.
> 
> ...


I can see your point with the breeder selling a lesser quality goat for breeding, And they should only offer the best onse for breeding. But on the other hand,  being honest and saying these are the best onse they are this much, and the others we are asking for this much, isn't really being dishonest.   Although if it has a true fault they shouldn't be papering the animal and it should be sold as commercial. Not sure that is the case here. He doesn't seem to have any true faults, Although I would like to see his scrotum from the back, it looked crooked to me in the one photo, to me that would be a reason to not paper. 

also, to chels24: If he doesn't have a perfect scrotum(even looking and no split), then do not buy him, Your future buyers will look at that in your herd sire and question your animals, can't tell you how many times I have herd visiters comment about good looking male parts while they are visiting. 

I have more of an issue with the whole colored goat market. Not only the seller but the buyer, willing to buy anything just because it is colored. I can't beleive the junk I see for sale on craiglist for 500 and up because it has spots. Drives me crazy. I have a couple paint doelings from this years kiddings and I have had more than one person offer me top dollar for one of them, and she is junk, other than the pretty paint job on her.  I refussed to offer her with the papers and I was pretty much told  how crazy I was by one potential buyer. 

To chels24: Not saying you are willing to buy junk, just ranting a bit from what I am seeing around here in the colored boer market. 

I really like that boys body shape, really nice head and horn set. Is he still nursing?  How old is he in that photo?  He is going to show his true self after he is weaned.  I am still concerned about those front legs, I would ask the breeder about it when you visit. Get their take on it.


----------



## jodief100 (Jun 22, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> , Although I would like to see his scrotum from the back, it looked crooked to me in the one photo, to me that would be a reason to not paper.
> 
> also, to chels24: If he doesn't have a perfect scrotum(even looking and no split), then do not buy him, Your future buyers will look at that in your herd sire and question your animals, can't tell you how many times I have herd visiters comment about good looking male parts while they are visiting.
> 
> ...


Agree.  The scrotum shape and size can be passed to his girl's udders so you want to be careful about that.  A twisted udder is a big problem.  

I also get a bit miffed about the silliness in the colored boer market.  I have a little buckling (soon to be wether) people just love and I REFUSE to sell him as a buck.  He is small, scrawny and his mom has to be wormed way too often for my taste.  His coloring is in swirls all over his body.  Red head and white body with red swirls all over him.  Adorable, but breeding quality?  NO WAY!  I do not want that buck out there from my farm producing substandard but cute kids.  

Sorry for vearing off topic here.  

I would also ask the breeder for birth and weaning weight on both boys and the dam's weight at weaning.  Look at what percentage of her body weight she weaned.


----------

