# Question on Selling Young Lambs



## aggieterpkatie (Aug 13, 2010)

I ran into the people who bought a lamb of mine while I was at the county fair last night.  The lamb looks really great, they're doing a good job with her.  They also happen to be the people who sold me my goats.  They mentioned they'd like another lamb next year, but they said they wanted to get a young one.  Well, I sold them this lamb at 9 weeks, one week after she weaned.  They said they wanted to bottle feed a lamb next year so it's calmer and more friendly.  

I'm not sure how I feel about this.  I mean, I'd have to sell one at a week old probably, *maybe* up to 2 weeks old, but the older they are the harder they are to get on a bottle.  The younger they are, the more likely it is for something to go wrong, IMO.  This family has bottle fed goats, but IMO lambs are harder than goats to bottle raise, because they just tend to look pot bellied and just scrawnier, at least until a while after they've been weaned and on hay/grain/pasture.  IMO, bottle fed lambs are the hardest to do right, compared to beef and dairy calves and goats.  Plus, the idea of purposely bottling an animal is just crazy.  I mean, with dairy animals there's a reason.  With lambs, there's just no _reason_, IMO.

Then, I have to think about how I'd feel about separating a lamb from it's mother before it's necessary.    I'm just not sure I would want to do that, but if this is what the family wants would it be that terrible to do? 

Thoughts?  I have a while to think about it, but since they just asked me yesterday it's on my mind.


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## glenolam (Aug 13, 2010)

Was the lamb you sold them before their first lamb?  I guess it might depend on how much experience they have with lambs in general, but more with baby lambs.  I have no idea about the differences between raising goats and lambs as I only have goats, but if they have a decent amount of experience, that would sway me to think they could handle it if something did go wrong.

Why do they think a bottle lamb would be more friendly?  I've seen goats bottle fed and not bottle fed and all are friendly - it more depends on how much time they spend with people.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 13, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> Why do they think a bottle lamb would be more friendly?  I've seen goats bottle fed and not bottle fed and all are friendly - it more depends on how much time they spend with people.


I'm somewhat inclined to disagree with this.  Let me say first, I think bottle babies are a huge PITA and there are advantages/disadvantages to both depending on circumstances so I'm not arguing for one or the other.  But, I think it ultimately depends on the temperament of the dam.  

We started with bottle babies.  They're all super friendly, easy to catch, etc.  Because of our busy work schedules (and b/c I think bottle babies are a PITA) we decided to dam raise our first round of kids.  

Two of the does are relatively easy to handle once you snag them but a pain to catch.  The third doe you can just walk up to and collect.

Each doe had a singleton.  We ended up with two kids that were easy enough to handle but you'd have to run laps to catch (since they learned to run with their dams.)  The third you could walk right up to and cuddle (because mom never runs.)  Could you spend extra time socializing the two that run after they're separated from their dams?  Sure, but you're already starting off at a disadvantage from a kid who's bottle raised OR has a friendly dam and never learned to run from people in the first place.  Extra work with an uncertain return isn't something I'd sign up for if I had other viable choices.

Next time around we're going to bottle raise all the kids who have dams that run because I HATE chasing a goat until I'm sweating whenever I need to do something and so do a lot of potential buyers.

We may still leave kids on our friendly (walk up to and collect) doe next time.  She was dam raised herself and passes on her sweet temperament to her kids (i.e. doesn't teach them to run.)  No need to bottle feed in this regard.  Do you have any ewes that are friendly and easy to catch?  If so maybe you could dam raise and they could still have a friendly lamb.


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## helmstead (Aug 13, 2010)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> Next time around we're going to bottle raise all the kids who have dams that run because I HATE chasing a goat until I'm sweating whenever I need to do something and so do a lot of potential buyers.


She is slowly but surely joining me on the dark side (insert evil laugh)!

Hands down, bottle babies are friendlier.  PITA, yeah, but I'm sooo done with skittish goats or goats who KNOW what you're thinking when it's time to_ do _something.  I can only imagine the same applies to sheep.

The latest I'd pull is 2 weeks.  I've been forced to pull a 3 week old before and it was darn near impossible to get that thing on the bottle...finally just bucket trained it.  Optimal time to pull is no older than 3 days.


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 13, 2010)

I've had both bottle and dam raised babies and BOTH can be equally friendly.  My doe and my buck were dam raised, and I never have to chase them, they love attention and come right up to me.  However, they're not "in my face" and aren't pesky like many bottled goats I've had.  I've also had dam raised sheep and they're just as friendly as bottle fed sheep, but not as pesky.  

I think they could take a weaned baby and make it very friendly. Heck, my ram lamb is friendly to a fault.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 13, 2010)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> I've had both bottle and dam raised babies and BOTH can be equally friendly.  My doe and my buck were dam raised, and I never have to chase them, they love attention and come right up to me.


Were they dam raised with friendly dams?  I have a doe who is dam raised and super sweet and she has super sweet babies who don't run.  But I'm having a hard time imagining that my dam raised kids on the other does would run TO me when their dams are running AWAY from me.  They always ran just as fast the other way. 

There are lots of great reasons to let my friendly does raise their kids, but I won't do it again with those that aren't.  Yes, Kate, that means I will be joining you on the dark side.   I too refuse to acquire any more goats that need to be chased.  It really takes the joy out of milking to have to work that hard just to get the darn things on the freaking stand!  

So, do you have a friendly ewe they can reserve a lamb from?  Sounds like a win-wn to me...


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## goodhors (Aug 13, 2010)

I do not think I would take the lamb off the mother until it was ready to wean.  They grow better, usually have MUCH less difficulty in gaining so they look nice at selling time.

We buy lambs for 4-H market project.  They are pretty much unhandled except for the bad stuff, tails, banding, shots, ear-tagging.  Daughter works them in the pens at sellers, then tames them when they come here.  They are handled DAILY, led and rubbed, drag long halter ropes for catching under supervision when introduced to grass turnout.  They are QUICKLY adapted to "people are NICE and bring TREATS" kind of thinking.

Usually within a couple weeks the drag ropes are off, lambs are right over to be caught and put away.  By Fair, they think they are dogs.  RACE over to you, come from the big field when called, so you halter them and lead them anyplace.

I would feel badly if I heard later that lamb died instead of doing well on the bottle.  Or saw it and it had not grown well later.

I think you have a better product if left with the mother, handled as much as possible, or handled a lot after purchase to tame them down well.  Lambs ignored after purchase until the week before Fair ARE going to be much harder to handle in all areas, leading, shearing, showing.  They have not gotten any reward from handling, just STUFF done to them, probably rough handling because they fight and it takes muscle on bigger lambs to get it done.

I would think separating those wild goat kids from wild mothers, introducing the drag ropes, and catching them up with some feed pellets, nice brushing or petting a few times a day would tame them fast.  Rewards for coming to a person change their thinking quickly.

Whatever the animal, I am NOT going to chase them for very long.  I will be "modifying their behaviour" so they come to me when I want them.


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## Beekissed (Aug 13, 2010)

I would agree with this post! Much handling produces more manageable livestock.  

You could explain to these people that weaning that early may  give them a lamb that grows slower, has a worse conformation, or even  a poor constitution.  That, ethically, you cannot see stressing a ewe and lamb so they can bottle feed a lamb.  

Bottle lambs are a dime a doz. around here..they can probably get a real bottle lamb very easily for a cheap price. 

I have one that was a bottle lamb and she never really lost that potbellied, skinny hipped look.  And she is the wildest one of my bunch.


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## she-earl (Aug 14, 2010)

There are times when a ewe cannot or will not care for her lambs.  These are the lambs that would be best to bottle feed.  If a ewe can care for her lambs, I would be hesitant to remove them from her.
I have raised five bottle lambs earlier this year.  They were all either twins, triplets, or quads that needed care.  I received them from flocks where the people did not have the time to care for them.  I started them out on small frequent feedings (1/4 cup every two hours) and gradually increased the amount of milk and then the length of time between feedings.  They grew very nicely and didn't have the "feast or famine" look to them.
Are there other people with flocks of sheep in your area that these people could get an "orphan" lamb from to raise?


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 14, 2010)

Thanks, y'all have pretty much just backed up my gut feeling on doing this.  I'm going to explain why I don't want to separate, and they'll just either have to get a lamb from someone else, or get one once it's weaned.  They've already done such a good job with the lamb they have (which was their first lamb) I know they won't have a problem again.


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## abooth (Aug 16, 2010)

Hi, I did not read all the replies but I definitely have a story to share.  Last year I decided I'd like to get started in sheep this year.  I scoured craigslist this spring to find a bottle bay.  I knew I wanted a bottle baby and that was all I could get at first because my fence wasn't ready.  Anyway I found an ad that had bottle babies available.  Cheviots.  When I went to the farm to pick up my lamb it became clear that the shepherd had taken the lamb away from the ewe for no reason so that I could have a bottle lamb.  She was four days old at the time and had been a single.  At the time I thought that seemed strange.  But I had driven two hours to get my new lamb and I wasn't leaving without one.  In the end I raised my lamb successfully.  She never had any health issues.  I do think that she got a better start than a typical bottle lamb though.  She got her colostrum from mom and was strong and healthy.  She is definitely my friendliest sheep.  And I did a lot of research before I got her so I'd know what to expect.  They might have great luck with a "created" bottle baby rather than a small or weak "natural" bottle baby.


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## Calliopia (Aug 17, 2010)

We started our herd w/ older goats that have some past issues/abuse/baggage.  3 of them were bottle babies though and while sometimes it is a PAIN to have all 350lbs of goat as your shadow I wouldn't trade it in a million years for the curse worthy antics of my two runners.   Any time I have to work the goats, wormer, feet, anything. It takes 3 people to catch one of them, she is a master of evasion. 
   I intend to pull and bottle feed anything promising off of those two or I will have impossible babies on my hands.   

I share the opinion that I am DONE with goats I can't catch.


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