# Ram Butting Thread - Share Techniques to Prevent...



## meloout831 (Feb 16, 2013)

I noticed my ram gets a little defensive on the pasture, and frankly I get scared to get around my sheep. Once he tried to chase me, and I took a bucket and popped him. So decided to create a thread for tips on eliminating and controlling rams.

1. I read somewhere that if one ties a block of wood to the leg this would eliminate charging.

2. The masking of a ram will stop it.

3. Squirting the ram in the face with vinegar and water deters butting.

What do you guys think of this? Any effective ways of stopping them completely from butting or charging?


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## bonbean01 (Feb 16, 2013)

How old is this ram?  I've heard of people throwing them to the ground, but by the time they are adults, that is not possible for me.  I have tried the water pistol thing...worked for a short while, but then not.  Have tried the bbgun to the butt thing, but that means you are carrying a bbgun with you and feed at the same time and that's a juggling act...plus...just not good husbandry in my opinion.

Our last butting ram kept getting worse and worse...but right now he is resting comfortably in our freezer...had chops last night...and now we can enjoy him 

I've wondered about those leather face guards and if they work, but never tried it.  

Be very careful when you are in with him...they can do a human much damage.


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## meloout831 (Feb 16, 2013)

My ram is 2.5 years old. I tend to stay away regardless, and go to pasture when need. Also, I take my dog with me. Safety first!


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## Roving Jacobs (Feb 16, 2013)

I think the best way of preventing nasty rams is to make sure they have a group of other boys to hang out with. Especially the young ones seem to really get a lot out of living with an older ram. My senior ram puts any young boys in their place and has even stepped in when one has tried to get fresh with me, walking in between me and the other ram. Also, rams are just like other sheep, they need company or else they go crazy and start being destructive and dangerous. 

I don't use punishment unless I'm really pushed, I mostly use negative reinforcement to teach them how they should behave around people instead of trying to tell them how not to behave. Either when I'm halter training or when the rams are loose in the field I'll walk up into their personal space just enough that they start looking a little uncomfortable. I then stand in their personal space bubble until they put their head down respectfully like they would do to a higher ranking ram or turn away from me, then I back off and give them space. If they instead turn towards me or get pushy I stare hard at them, square up, sharply say no, and generally make myself seem as threatening as possible. Again, as soon as they back off I do too.

I practice this every day when introducing new babies into my ram flock and even the bottle raised boys have learned to mind their own business if they see me in the field. Once they figure out what they are supposed to do around me I really only practice a couple times a month at most. Not feeding grain in the field makes this so much easier and I would really recommend not feeding grain while you are in a pen or pasture with a ram. My boys don't get all excited to see me thinking I have goodies so there is really no reason for them to even look up from grazing. Rams getting overexcited because of food causes a lot of scuffles amongst each other so it can certainly result in you getting run over or butted. Mine don't get grain at all but if you have to feed it I would set it out when they're in another part of the pasture or only feed it when you are safely on the other side of the fence.

Only when they actively charge me do they get physically punished. I try not to smack them anywhere they would butt each other so they know I'm not just playing their games. Right on the nose is good. If they aren't heavily wooled a smack on the shoulder or rump is ok too. I've found they don't even notice if I hit them on the forehead or around their horns. Most of the time its my dog (an 80 lb cattle dog mix) that doles out punishment for pushy sheep. He comes flying out of nowhere if he sees them charge me and they don't generally try twice with a dog snapping at their nose and heels. 

Rather than hit them I prefer just flipping them if at all possible. Especially in front of other sheep. It seems to take them down a peg better than physical punishment. I hold them down until they stop struggling, stare them right in the eye and give them a good long lecture in a snarly voice about how terrible they are and how much I am going to enjoy the curry I am going to make out of them. They shouldn't pop right back up when you get off them. 

I never, ever take my eyes off a ram or trust him to not be dangerous but I walk through the ram pasture at least once a day and have maybe one or two incidents a year that are serious enough for me to punish any of my boys. I won't tolerate a nasty ram though so if my usual method didn't work it would be freezer time.


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## Bridgemoof (Feb 16, 2013)

This is all really good info. I am still having trouble with Uriah. I haven't introduced him yet to my wethers, but I am going to follow Roving's advice she gave me about putting them in a small stall together so they can't back up and ram each other. URiah now has a rather large roman nose from me hitting him all the time on it. I don't hit him that hard, but his nose looks inflamed. 

I have two other young rams that went head to head as soon as I put them together. So into the small stall they went, and they've been there for a few days. I think they are pretty much best friends now because they have been in prison together. I feel confident that when I let them out, they will be best buds.


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## alsea1 (Feb 16, 2013)

I feel very lucky that my ram is only bad with the buildings and manger.  He does not challenge me at all. 
I don't know if all black bellies are like that or not though.  I'm still very green to this sheep thing.


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## SheepGirl (Feb 16, 2013)

I like having a collar or a halter or a harness on my rams. At my neighbor's farm, we had one nasty friendly ram and he wore a collar. All you had to do was when he walked up to you, hold onto his collar and make him walk with you, close to you. Kept him from ramming you. I did the same thing with my current ram just to err on the side of caution, except with his marking harness. Now that he's not wearing it, I hold under his jaw and walk him with me.

When a ram backs up and almost charges you, I have had success in sticking your foot out and they stop. Sometimes their anger escalates and they don't respond to that. That's when you take out the 2x4 or a plastic wiffle ball bat. If they hit you, you can hit them. It's only fair. Some of them understand real quick. Others take longer. I shipped my last ram because he was so mean. As a ram lamb he was mean, as a yearling and 2 yr old he was perfectly well behaved, but as a 3 year old, the devil took him over lol. So bye bye he went because I didn't want to deal with him anymore nor be afraid of going in his pen. What's the point of keeping an animal you're afraid of? How are you supposed to give them the proper care if you're scared of them?


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## Royd Wood (Feb 17, 2013)

Butcher them - simple
It goes back to ram lambs being played with - dont do it


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## purplequeenvt (Feb 17, 2013)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> It goes back to ram lambs being played with - dont do it


Arrgh! I dislike this idea so much! It is not true! One could easily (and truthfully) say that we play with our ram lambs. From day one they are held and kissed and cuddled, but they are also taught manners - no jumping, no play butting, etc... When they are 4 weeks old we start halter training and that helps teach them a lot respect. As they reach 6 mos - 1 year, some may need a little reminder once in a while who is in charge, but a ping on the nose or a shove with the foot is usually all it takes. By the time they are 1 1/2 - 2 years, they are calm. well-mannered rams who may or may not come over to see you when you go in a pen or pasture, but there is no need to be afraid of them. Heck, we have even had former bottle babies around here as muture breeding rams. Our first ram was a bottle baby and a 4 year old could have handled him. I need my rams to be calm and easy to handle so I handle them a lot so that they are used to it and respect me. Sorry for the little rant.....

Back on topic.....
In regards to mean rams, it is difficult to say what will work and what won't because every ram is different. And some rams refuse to learn who to behave no matter what you do.

We had a Romney ram that we purchased that was very aggressive (mostly during winter when they were confined) and the only way to get him to back off would be to whack him with a board or a shovel. He never learned and went in the freezer. Another purchased ram - Dorper/Border Leicester - wasn't nearly as bad. He was afraid of people and didn't have a healthy level of respect. He was afraid/more aggressive towards men and would get very defensive if he thought that he was going to be hit. He is mostly better now because every time I would go in his pen, I would put a halter on him and keep him close to me until I was done. Through that he learned that I was the boss and could do what I wanted with him and also that I wasn't going to hurt him. 

I like SheepGirl's idea of the collar. You could even put a bell on it so that he couldn't sneak up on you. Bringing the dog with you is also good (is it a herding dog?). If you can get the dog to nip the ram a few times that might help instill the fear (read respect) of you in his little brain.


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## Royd Wood (Feb 17, 2013)

purplequeenvt said:
			
		

> Royd Wood said:
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Oh purple it is true and you subscribe to that by intervening normal playtime very early on by teaching manners, no jumping, no play butting and leading up to halter training at only 4 weeks old.  
My point is alot of good folks dont do that and manage the play thing only, which almost always leads to a boisterous ram with very little respect for the person walking with a target on their arse
With all the effort you put in then you deserve a friendly calm ram - I wish I had the time and patience to do things your way - dont suppose I can drop off my 2 week old Romney and mum with you and pick them up in the Fall


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## meloout831 (Feb 17, 2013)

Very good tips guys! I've been thinking of getting a good herding dog with power to bring down a ram if needed. What do you guys think of a catahoula? They make good hog dogs... I wonder about sheep.


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## secuono (Feb 17, 2013)

Stick the sheep in with horses, they will teach the sheep to buzz off when they stomp their feet. Then you can do the same. 
Or get a lunging whip and smack their bums when they think about charging. 
Or, learn why they are doing it and then change yourself so they don't see you as a threat.


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## meloout831 (Feb 17, 2013)

I like your suggestions, thanks. As a matter of fact I think a donkey would be just as good.


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## Sheepshape (Feb 19, 2013)

It's a lot down to their personality, too. A horned ram with too much attitude is a dangerous animal.

There are some very good tips on here, but lots of contact with people and a clear message given that the owner will stand no nonsense always helps.

I bred a very good ram lamb a couple of years ago, Ifor, (later re-christened Ifor the A***hole). If you turned your back on him,he would head butt. I took to carrying a short stick and rapping his nose (as suggested above) when he (inevitably) tried to head butt when feeding him. Local big scale farmer spotted him when visiting one day and asked to swop for a big ram he had. This farmer is known for his tough stance. He swopped for Freddie (un-named until he came to us), a truly massive ram, over 100kg of muscle, bone, and breeding tackle.Initially very shy, this guy has proven to be the exact opposite of Ifor. He is name quite friendly, loves biscuits, follows like a lamb and is never, never aggressive with people. I don't even think about watching my back when feeding the rams now. He, and the equally massive Goliath (Blue Faced Leicester ram) plus my two ram lambs are a delight.
If they are too nasty, they should go in my opinion.

I ended up in leg plaster for 6 months due to a nasty billy goat, I'm sure none of us want that!


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## purplequeenvt (Feb 19, 2013)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> purplequeenvt said:
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Haha! Of course!


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## Rambunctious (May 15, 2013)

O.K., I'm new here.  But I had to post a success I just had with my Katahdin ram!  He's 2 1/2 years old and has been great.  An excellent breeder, gentle with everybody, including me.  

About 8 months ago, I seperated him to a different paddock when he started after the ewe lambs.  This was fine, he had a honeymoon suite and girls to himself.

Then, suddenly, I went into the paddock with him like I had hundreds of times before to clean his water tub, when POW!!!  He hit me in the thigh!  He proceeded to hit me twice more before I could get out of the gate.  In retrospect, I'm sure they were 'friendly' hits since he didn't break my leg, so he must have pulled his punches.  After that, he tried hitting me through the fence a number of times.

I put him up for sale on Craigslist and since he started shedding, he looks like crap.  I decided to try to snatch off any loose wool that I could get ahold of from over the fence.  It got to be quite fun!  He would walk by, I'd snatch a handful of wool (or 2).  I'd feed him by the fence and snatch away.  HE HATED IT!!!  He got to where he wouldn't come near me, so I stepped it up a notch.  When I snatched a hank, I clapped my hands loud.  He jumps and backs up!

Today, I walked into his paddock.  He looked at me, I clapped my hands and reached for him, and he RAN BEHIND HIS HOUSE AND HID!  He didn't come out until I left the paddock.  

Perhaps my actions seemed like torture, but remember that hair sheep shed anyway, and all I was pulling was last winters wool that he was rubbing off already.  The key thing is that I found an action that he didn't like and that didn't trigger any sort of 'fight response'.  It also caused no injury.  Finally, he looks much better for potential buyers, and now has the appropriate respect for me, at least for now.


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