# Worming goats with Safeguard



## lupinfarm (Nov 15, 2009)

I bought some safeguard to give the goats as a precaution before I worm them with ivermec injectable, I was wondering what the measurement per lbs is of the safeguard to give to goats...


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## kimmyh (Nov 15, 2009)

I use the label directions on the liquid Safeguard. and 4 x the label directions on the paste.


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## mully (Nov 15, 2009)

50 pounds .... 1.2 ml


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## ksalvagno (Nov 15, 2009)

We use 1cc per 10-15lbs here in Ohio. At least that is what the vets in my area recommend.


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## cmjust0 (Nov 16, 2009)

I can't remember exactly the dosages...whatever was on the bottle.  The only other thing is that when we use Safe Guard on an animal, we use it for 3 straight days.

The 'precaution' thing is about all Safe Guard's good for anymore, IMO..  Just to knock the wormload down a smidge before giving something stronger.


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## lupinfarm (Nov 16, 2009)

i know that, sometimes i give it to the horses while we rotate wormers. the only safeguard i can get my hands on is the horse paste wormer. i'm not sure how much either of the goats weigh, but i can weigh them.. they're not too big to carry.


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## lupinfarm (Nov 21, 2009)

With the safeguard wormer, do you use the equine version? it's the only one i can get here and i'm afraid i'll kill the ladies if i worm them with it.


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## Mini-M Ranch (Nov 30, 2009)

They carry the one labeled for goats now at Southern States.  At least that is where I got mine.


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## lupinfarm (Nov 30, 2009)

I live in Canada, Mini M

There is hardly anything available for goats, and most things except for the wormers are Vet prescribed only.


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## FarmerChick (Nov 30, 2009)

do you have any online canadian livestock catalogues that you use?
good chance ever med or wormer etc. is available for goats to be mailed to you on order.

I use Jeffers Livestock...don't know if they do Canada or not.

might help you.


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## lupinfarm (Nov 30, 2009)

Nope. We aren't allowed to order most things because of the monolpoly the vet community has. We have to go through a vet for almost everything. I have access to the regular horse wormers, ivermectin injectible (I wormed them with this yesterday), Noromectin, CD/T shots in a huge bottle not the nice small ones, and some antibiotics. 

Otherwise you have to go to the vet, at least in Ontario. Out west you can pick up things like Strongid T, but they can't ship across/won't ship across Provincial borders. 

Jeffers and Valley Vet don't ship to vaccines/medications to Canada. 

IE, we have nothing here  We can't even get most uncontrolled products like feed bins, hay feeders, halters, etc. 

Our agricultural industry (at least the hobbiests and small farmers) are drastically underserviced.


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## lupinfarm (Nov 30, 2009)

And for the record, vets won't give you the Tetanus Anti toxin here if you have vaccinated with CD/T. My vet flat out told me it is extremely expensive, doesn't keep, and if you have vaccinated you won't need it. I can't order it either because it's controlled by the vet community.


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## FarmerChick (Nov 30, 2009)

well doesn't all that stink for you  ---makes it hard to be your own boss

 has been 1% Ivermectin injectable given orally at a rate of one cc per 50 pounds bodyweight (1 cc per 50 lbs.). Occasionally goats with dairy influence (including Boers and Boer-crosses) need to be dewormed with a *white* dewormer like Safeguard/Panacur or Valbazen to get tapeworms.   Never give Valbazen to preggo does, abortions happen.

you can get the ivermectin injectable right....give 1 cc per 50 lbs bodyweight.   

does that help ya


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## lupinfarm (Nov 30, 2009)

Well I wormed the girls twice with the horse safeguard, 4cc for Cissy, 3cc for Mione. I wormed them once, then waited 2 days, then again. I waited one more day and then wormed them with the ivermectin injectible. 

Just over .5cc for Cissy (my ivermec says 1cc per 50kg of body weight) because she's only 60lbs, and Mione with .5cc

So far, no one is dead LOL. They have nice dark/bright membranes/eyelids.


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## FarmerChick (Nov 30, 2009)

whoa
that seems like enough for now...LOL

as long as they are still walking...HA HA HA you did good.


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## cmjust0 (Dec 1, 2009)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> Well I wormed the girls twice with the horse safeguard, 4cc for Cissy, 3cc for Mione. I wormed them once, then waited 2 days, then again. I waited one more day and then wormed them with the ivermectin injectible.
> 
> Just over .5cc for Cissy (my ivermec says 1cc per 50kg of body weight) because she's only 60lbs, and Mione with .5cc
> 
> So far, no one is dead LOL. They have nice dark/bright membranes/eyelids.


We use _ectin injectable 1% dewormers orally at a rate of 1ml/30lbs.  If Cissy were here, she'd have gotten 2ml of it right down the gullet.  We typically repeat that in about 10 days.

Also, we give Safe Guard 3 days in a row, when we give it.  Can't remember the dosage, but I think it's about the same as the _ectin wormers.

I wouldn't think twice about doing Safe Guard for 3 straight days, waiting about 10 days, then doing the _ectin injectable @ 1ml/30lbs orally, then waiting another 10 days and doing the _ectin again if a goat had a really bad worm load.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 1, 2009)

With the Safeguard, it should be done 3 days in a row, no days in between.

If you have 1% Ivomec, then they can be givent 1cc per 40lbs and can be given orally or injected. This is the dosage from my vet.


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## Mini-M Ranch (Dec 1, 2009)

Ok, I only know the weight of my smallest goat because she is the only one who has been to the vet.  I have no way to weigh them here, so I guessed about how much ivermec to give.  I estimated what to give and went on the side of a higher dosage than less because the vet said to make sure to give enough.  

Their eyelids looked great.  I wormed them all because we brought in a new buck and I was deworming him from the trip, so we just did everybody for good measure.  I am wondering now how much is too much?  We did this one Saturday and so far everybody looks good.  

For info about what I gave, my smallest goat weighs 35 pounds.  She got 1 cc orally.  The other doeling who is slightly larger got 1.5 cc. Our other two does got 2 ccs and the buck 2.5.  They are mini-nubians. Hope I didn't give too much.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 1, 2009)

Ivomec you don't have to give several days in a row like Safeguard. If you are just doing this as a preventative, then you are done. Unless you know you have a worm problem, there is no reason to hit the goats with everything.

Luckily with wormers, you are pretty safe with "giving too much." It usually won't hurt them. At least with Ivomec and Safeguard. You certainly don't want to be majorly overdosing on a regular basis but it is better to err on the side of too much than too little.


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## lupinfarm (Dec 1, 2009)

I've just been wary of going over on the dose with wormers since my mom overdosed our stud dog on Strongid T last year. 

I'm not sure if my ivermec is 1%, but I'll check later. I don't think either of them have worms, I watch their eyelids/membranes and they seem fine. They had been wormed monthly with the injectible (as an injection) by their previous owners. I only did two days because I only had one tube of the horse wormer and couldn't get back to the tack shop which is about 30km away to buy a $13 tube of wormer. Not worth it. 


I'll probably worm them again in a few weeks. 

I'm not sure I feel comfortable giving something that is supposed to be an injection, orally. 

Just a thought, would the ivermectin cattle drench I use on my chickens work for the goats? I can also get the sheep drench. That might be easier for us.


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## cmjust0 (Dec 1, 2009)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> I'm not sure I feel comfortable giving something that is supposed to be an injection, orally.


If it's good enough to go directly into the muscle, I figure going into the gut won't hurt.

If you think giving injectables orally seems bad, try giving a _pour-on_ orally.  Cydectin pour-on, for instance, smells like rocket fuel and has a tendency to eat plastic syringes.

Folks do it all the time.  I've done it.  I don't do it _anymore_, but I've done it.


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## Mini-M Ranch (Dec 1, 2009)

I thought it was weird at first, too, to give injectables orally.  My vet assured me it was perfectly safe.  He said to NEVER try the pour-on orally.  He said he likened it to animal torture.  lol.  He was kidding, but I got the idea. haha.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 1, 2009)

If you are injecting deworming medication (the relatively new Cydectin injectable, for example), make sure to have a bottle of Epinephrine (vet prescription) on hand for use if the goat goes into shock. You only have seconds to save an animal in shock.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 1, 2009)

Pour on is NOT the same as injectable.


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## SweetDreams (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm going to chime it.

I thought it was VERY strange to give anything pour-on orally as well.

But....
A local vet suggested it due to the problems with parasites Kentucky has. 


Ugh....
But I guess, that unless we are going to put a cone on the livestock when we pour-on....they are bound to get some orally from licking themselves, and each other. 

Ha, Ha, Ha. A cone for a goat. Anyone got a picture of that??


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## FarmerChick (Dec 1, 2009)

good info here

Here comes that word again that too many producers ignore: adaptability. When moved, goats need time (months, not days or weeks, and sometimes longer) to adapt to the bacteria, viruses, worms, cocci, and other organisms that inhabit their new home. This is true of every goat that is moved, whether it be a breeding buck, doe, or kids. Bucks moved into field performance tests need at least six months and sometimes longer, depending upon the time of year they are moved and the differences between their old location and their new one, to adapt to their new environment to develop antibodies that keep them healthy and able to compete on a reasonably equal basis. Bucks who have lived in the area that the field performance test is being conducted have an enormous "home field advantage" because they have already adapted. 

Do not move pregnant does -- period. Kids born at the new location may and usually will have reduced-to-sometimes-no protection via the mother's milk from the new organisms because the doe will not have had time to develop immunities to these "bugs" before her kids are born. 




Goats have thin hides (relative to other ruminants, such as cattle) and very fast metabolisms. For these reasons, do not use dewormers as back drenches on goats. Back drenching goats with anthelmentics has been proven to be both undesirable and ineffective.


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## cmjust0 (Dec 1, 2009)

SweetDreams said:
			
		

> A local vet suggested it due to the problems with parasites Kentucky has.


I keep telling people...Kentucky doesn't have parasite problems when it comes to goats.  Indeed, we have some of the finest goat parasites in the world!  

Also...fwiw...I think sometimes vets who have less than optimal experience with goats are forced to suggest whatever they hear from people who seem to raise goats successfully, so their advice might be the same advice you'd get from ol' Ed Tom the goat guy who lives down the road a piece...because he's the one who told the vet.   

Speaking of goat guys who live down the road, a buddy of mine who swore by drenching with pour-on cydectin has cut WAY back on doing that because of something he _supposedly_ heard from a little birdy who _supposedly_ cut one's gut open and found that its innards were messed up pretty good, _supposedly_ from being dosed with round after round of the Aromatic 100 in Cydectin pour-on..  

Again...that's a little birdy to my buddy to me, so...best to take it with about a tablespoon and a half of salt.


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## lupinfarm (Dec 1, 2009)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> lupinfarm said:
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> 
> 
> ...


We can't get Cydectin. I guess next week I'll worm them again and do it orally? I'm not sure if I can even get an epi-pen/epi-shot from my vet. I'm calling tomorrow so I can get them tested for CAE/CL. They don't show any signs, but I want the proof.


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## lupinfarm (Dec 1, 2009)

Okay my wormer says on the bottle that it is NOT for intramuscular injection, subcutaneous only. It also says 1 mL contains 10mg of ivermectin. 

I'm not sure I will give it orally, I will speak to my vet tomorrow when I call to book the blood taking/tests.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 1, 2009)

You have the 1% solution. You want to do SQ because you want it to release slower. I would do 1cc per 40lbs SQ.

You can do it either orally or by shot. I personally do shots. Then I know they got the whole dosage.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 2, 2009)

if you talk with the vet be sure to tell him all the wormers you already gave the goats...it might be enough at this point and time


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