# Full size buck to dwarf doe?



## WannaBeFarmR (Mar 20, 2013)

So everything I know about breeding in mammals says this is a bad idea but I thought I'd ask. I see ads online all the time for kids that are half alpine half Nigerian dwarf. And a lot of those people say the mamma goat is the ND. That seems like you're asking for trouble with that size difference. So are the kids born bigger since they are half standard size, and doesn't that make it dangerous for the doe? If the kids aren't really much bigger then what about the actual breeding? Ouch! poor little goat is all I have to say. Or maybe these are AI cases? Just wondering because I know you wouldn't want to breed a Flemish giant buck to a Netherland dwarf doe, although the reverse is okay.


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## Hillsvale (Mar 20, 2013)

Yes standard buck to a dwarf doe is a very bad idea!


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 20, 2013)

No, most people do the standard doe to ND buck.

I don't think the breeding would be to much of an issue, but the kids would be larger.

It does happen, but I wouldn't do it.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Mar 20, 2013)

Do not do it! Just had a BYH member breed a larger buck to a smaller doe and she had major issues. One kid died and the dam nearly died. Had to be rushed to the vet and with the help of I think three people, they got the kids out. Was really bad for the goat and the owners. Never breed a large buck to a small doe.


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 20, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> Do not do it! Just had a BYH member breed a larger buck to a smaller doe and she had major issues. One kid died and the dam nearly died. Had to be rushed to the vet and with the help of I think three people, they got the kids out. Was really bad for the goat and the owners. Never breed a large buck to a small doe.


You mean a larger breed of buck to a smaller breed of doe.  Not a buck who is larger than the doe?  If that's what you mean, then you would never breed a 7 y/o buck to a first freshner because he is larger than her.


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## Tmaxson (Mar 21, 2013)

The buck and doe Straw mentioned was mine.  The buck was a ND/Pygmy mix but big for either one of those breeds, the doe was a small pygmy.  Two of the triplets were normal ND pygmy size 2lb and 3lb.  The one that didn't make it and caused all the issues was probably around 6 or 7lbs (it didn't get weighed in all the comotion) it also had a very large head and it was extremely long.


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 21, 2013)

I'm sorry you had an issue there.

A ND/Pygmy kid shoud not weigh that much regardless if the buck is relatively large for the breed.

I have a buck that pushes the height standard, and we breed him to much smaller does.  Never had a kid that weighed that much.  I've never had a single weigh over 5.5 lbs.


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## WannaBeFarmR (Mar 21, 2013)

I have no plans to do that to my girls. But I've been on the look out for some goats for some time and I see it all the time in ads. Some even have pics of the ND mamma and the full size daddy (Alpine, or Boer usually), and I'd always heard you should never do that with other animals but I didn't know if goats were different for some reason (didn't think so, but I've learned that I should never assume I'm right when it comes to rules and nature). So basically when you see an ad like that its just people either not thinking or being really careless about the welfare of their animals, I do have understanding that sometimes things happen that we can't control (like someone dropping a buck off at you place and just throwing it in with your current goats, or the neighbors letting their goats wander, or fences being damaged when you're out or something).  Or even having a buck throw a big kid which is something that no one could know was going to happen. But its one thing to deal with whats happened responsibly and its another to just be irresponsible. Most of these people probably had full size doe goats and one pygmy doe as a pet or novelty and with out thinking let the buck run with the herd and oops look what happened. What ever, right, well if she makes it through and delivers some kids, I'll have something to sell...cruel. People shouldn't have animals if they don't care if they live or die. Sorry about the rant, I got mad thinking about how many ads I've seen over the years and knowing that for every ad with a live kid for sale how many goats died in birth or goat babies died. Sad.


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## Mamaboid (Mar 21, 2013)

Sylverfly said:
			
		

> I have no plans to do that to my girls. But I've been on the look out for some goats for some time and I see it all the time in ads. Some even have pics of the ND mamma and the full size daddy (Alpine, or Boer usually), and I'd always heard you should never do that with other animals but I didn't know if goats were different for some reason (didn't think so, but I've learned that I should never assume I'm right when it comes to rules and nature). So basically when you see an ad like that its just people either not thinking or being really careless about the welfare of their animals, I do have understanding that sometimes things happen that we can't control (like someone dropping a buck off at you place and just throwing it in with your current goats, or the neighbors letting their goats wander, or fences being damaged when you're out or something).  Or even having a buck throw a big kid which is something that no one could know was going to happen. But its one thing to deal with whats happened responsibly and its another to just be irresponsible. Most of these people probably had full size doe goats and one pygmy doe as a pet or novelty and with out thinking let the buck run with the herd and oops look what happened. What ever, right, well if she makes it through and delivers some kids, I'll have something to sell...cruel. People shouldn't have animals if they don't care if they live or die. Sorry about the rant, I got mad thinking about how many ads I've seen over the years and knowing that for every ad with a live kid for sale how many goats died in birth or goat babies died. Sad.


Yup!!  What you said.


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## SheepGirl (Mar 21, 2013)

Commercial sheep producers routinely breed their Rambouillet x Dorset x Finn ewes (probably 160-180 lbs) to Suffolk rams (300-400 lbs; ewes weigh 200-220 lbs) and they lamb out on range unassisted (kind of hard for the shepherd to assist flighty/wild ewes on hundreds/thousands of acres!).

This year I bred my 145 lb ewe to a thin 125 lb Texel ram (avg ewe weight is 160-180 lbs) and she produced an 11.2 lb single ewe lamb that she gave birth to all by herself.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 21, 2013)

Hillsvale said:
			
		

> Yes standard buck to a dwarf doe is a very bad idea!


I think this depends on the size of the ND and the size of the "full size" buck and the condition and health of the doe.  It is NOT advisable to breed two extremely dissimilar sized goats, i.e. Small doe to very large buck,  BUT given that information, sometimes BIG bucks throw small kids.  And Small does throw multiple kids...  Multiple kids are by nature smaller than singles...

My ND is very small  (14 inches high)  she was accidently bred to a large buck (180 pounds - 36 inches high at the withers) this year.  I did not know that she was bred to the larger buck.  I thought the buck she mated with was the same size as she - a mini La Mancha.

She had three beautiful kids,  all small,  all clearly from a full size  buck.  One is clearly going to be very small like she is, the other two will be small but bigger than she...

She dropped those kids in minutes, cleaned them up and didn't have even a bit of trouble.   The kids were 4 pounds, 4.5 pounds, and 5.5 pounds.  

NO I am not advocating crossing a full size buck with a mini doe.  BUT it is not always the disaster that everyone predicts...


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