# Livestock guardian options?



## Mrs1885 (Jan 21, 2019)

We have had chickens and ducks here for 12 years now with very few issues. Once in a while one would escape the fence and get hit by a car. We had a fox that jumped the wall a couple times and grabbed a chicken. Coyote walked through the pasture before it was fenced and grabbed a chicken that had escaped. But the last week our flock is slowly being decimated. 

We have 7+ acres with chickens, ducks, pigs, sheep and goats. Last month we had around 40 birds. We are down to about half that. Last night something got two of my favorite chickens. It has to be raccoon, opossum, etc because in almost every case it only takes the head. It's at night in the same area of the pasture.

Our birds have a big coop (8x16) with roosting perches but refuse to use it. I don't want them locked up because if something does get it they are fish in a barrel. So the only thing we can think is get a livestock guardian.

So, suggestions? We realllllllllllly don't want a dog. Barking makes me insane. I'm hoping there are other good options that will protect four leggers and feathered livestock?


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## Mike CHS (Jan 21, 2019)

I wouldn't recommend you get a guardian dog based only on what you just wrote. About the only sure immediate ways to stop a raccoon from killing chickens is to secure the chickens at night or to remove the raccoon(s) (usually more than one).


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## Mrs1885 (Jan 21, 2019)

Definitely do not want a dog. Not even a consideration. If we could catch whatever it is, that would be great. Found an opossum in with them once. We just can't find whatever it is and can't catch all the birds at night to lock them up. I may put up a fence and start locking them in a run as I catch them. :/


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## Southern by choice (Jan 21, 2019)

I agree with @Mike CHS 
First it takes a Shepherd to have a Livestock Guardian Dog. If you cannot be a shepherd to the dog then don't get one.
Second they bark, and based on predator threat and level they can bark alot.
Third, it takes training for poultry. Many get LGD's for poultry only to rehome them... many end up euthanized.
You very well may lose alot of poultry before you train the dog.
The fact that you don't really want a dog is kind of a flag that you will not bond/shepherd with the dog.
These dogs require a strong bond and demand trust to do their job well.

We were posting at the same time.

I would put up some game cams, find out what is grabbing your poultry and set traps, meanwhile lock up the birds and make your building as predator proof as you can. I'm wondering if you have an owl as well.


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## Mrs1885 (Jan 21, 2019)

Guys, we do not want a dog. It's not an option at all for us. That's why in the first post I said I really don't want a dog. I spent over 2 decades training dogs and doing rescue work. I know how much time and training it takes. I'm aware of different breeds various issues, including how much the LGDs bark. It's one of several reasons a dog is an absolute no. So honestly, no point in telling me that a dog is a bad option for us when I know a dog is a bad option for us and won't consider a dog. < All of that said with the utmost respect and gratitude to everyone for their advice, but also to stress we don't want a dog.

My question was about of livestock guardians. Alpaca, donkeys or other animals that may deter or chase off predators.

Trail cams are a great idea. It keeps happening in the same place so should be pretty easy to see what it is. We actually have a bald eagle here. First time I've seen one in all the years we've been here. Last night something carried off one of my full grown Orps. Wondering if that could be it? Prior to this whatever it was just took the head, so assumed raccoon or opossum. Now wondering if we have more than one type of predator or if I just haven't found the body.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 21, 2019)

I have not known either llamas or donkeys to care much about poultry or care much about small rodent like predators.
Possum, coon, mink, I don't think phase them much. Birds they could care less about.

Gotcha- I think I just misread your post. Sorry about that.


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## Mrs1885 (Jan 21, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> I have not known either llamas or donkeys to care much about poultry or care much about small rodent like predators.
> Possum, coon, mink, I don't think phase them much. Birds they could care less about.
> 
> Gotcha- I think I just misread your post. Sorry about that.



Yeh that was kind of my concern. I knew they were good for coyotes and stuff but hadn't heard of anything but dogs going after the smaller predators. Gah! I guess I just have to built Ft Knox for chickens and ducks. Fort Clucks?


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## Sheepshape (Jan 23, 2019)

Sorry, but I'm a little confused as to why you don't want chickens to be locked up in their coop at night. This would seem to me to be the obvious solution.
Here we have only fairly "Lightweight Predators'.....foxes/buzzards/stoats etc....but the fox has killed a fair number of mine over the years.
A secure coop will prevent most predation. Train them to use the coop....may take a bit of time. If they regularly roost somewhere, then take them off their perches when they have rested for the night (they are easy to move once they have settled...they go into a bit of a trance). After a number of days they will start to go into the coop themselves at nightfall. I'm doing this right now as I have a large group of chickens who have adopted my sheep shed fro their overnight roost following 'Bird 'Flu Restrictions'. Every night I'm shifting a group into the coop and some are now going in there by themselves.
The best solutions are those you already have, especially if you don't want to add to the number of species, pay out good money, and risk losing your poultry.


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## Baymule (Jan 23, 2019)

Skirt their run and coop all around with 2' hardware cloth or 2'x 1"x1" wire, laid flat on the ground and attached to the coop/run. This will prevent predators from digging in. Feed your poultry IN the coop, if they aren't going in a night, then with hold feed until 15 minutes before roosting time. When they crowd in to eat, close the door. In the morning, give them a little feed so that they know that is where they get fed. Rinse, repeat. If you have chicken wire on your coop, replace it with hardware cloth. Remember, raccoons can reach in and grab a chicken, so you want to use 1/2" hardware cloth. 

A donkey would be more likely to stomp the daylights out of poultry than to protect it. About the best you could hope for would be for a donkey to tolerate chickens. 

Remove the easy access for predators, at least at night. Hawks and eagles are a whole 'nother subject.


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## Mrs1885 (Jan 27, 2019)

I would LOVE them to be locked up at night. For years they were with no issue, but the room we locked them in (was meant to be a shop on the back of the attached garage) was just converted into a room in the house. We had a new coop built but they refuse to use it. The old coop was CBS with concrete floor so I knew it was secure. The new one is wood frame and a dirt floor. A couple friends have had predators tunnel under those and kill everything, which is my fear. I think my only good option is to dig up the ground and put down hardware cloth and attach it to the inside of the coop and put the soil back in with straw on top. I was hoping to find a simpler option as hubby just had spinal surgery and is out of commission for another 5 weeks. Looks like I get to enjoy some good old fashioned solo manual labor, huh?


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## Baymule (Jan 27, 2019)

Just skirt the coop with wire laid flat on the ground and attached to the coop. Go about 2 feet out. Predators will go to the coop and start to dig, hit the wire and give up. They just don't go out 2 or 3 feet away from the coop to start digging.


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