# Crash course?



## Laodicia (Feb 7, 2022)

I have chickens. My friend who has Sheep, pigs, and goats, chickens, ducks, and geese is in the hospital and I'm taking over for her, filling in as best I can.

She has 3 ewes who are due to deliver babies this month, and it sounds like she won't be able to be back to taking care of things this month.

My friend said she was hoping one of her ewes would have her baby before she left for the hospital... so really likely she'll have a baby this week. I have no clue what to expect, or how to care for this ewe and her baby. The birthing pen is set up with a heating area that I know she used last year for the babies. 

If you guys have any suggestions on what I can do, or even what to expect, that would be awesome. I was shown how to give Selenium vit E shot last night and there are 2 ewes who haven't had that yet but will need to, and the babies are supposed to get some. She said the amount varies based on their weight..... but didn't say what weight would indicate more than 0.5ml and will the mother freak out if I take the baby into the house to weigh it?

My friend said that this sheep who is going to have her baby isn't a great mother. I'm kind of panicking, but also... I mean I have kids of my own so not ENTIRELY new to the experience.... Sort of... 

I have to go to her house now and close everything up for the night, I'll check back when I get back home.


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## Baymule (Feb 7, 2022)

What breed of sheep and does she usually assist at birth? Sheep are generally pretty hardy, have their lambs with no fuss. Since this is a ewe that’s not a great mother, be sure to put them in the small pen. Provide hay, water and feed for the ewe. If you go to feed and she has lambed, pick up the lamb, stick your finger in its mouth, if warm, that’s good. Watch to make sure lambs are sucking.


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## Laodicia (Feb 7, 2022)

Baymule said:


> What breed of sheep and does she usually assist at birth? Sheep are generally pretty hardy, have their lambs with no fuss. Since this is a ewe that’s not a great mother, be sure to put them in the small pen. Provide hay, water and feed for the ewe. If you go to feed and she has lambed, pick up the lamb, stick your finger in its mouth, if warm, that’s good. Watch to make sure lambs are sucking.


Not entirely sure, I just got here I can take a picture. Maybe dorset


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## Laodicia (Feb 7, 2022)

The one who is due soon is in the foreground, her belly is lower around the hips than the other ewe who is the same breed. I have a picture of her vulva too if you want that, not sure it's color accurate though because I had the flash on. She's eating like the others and doesn't seem particularly distressed besides having a person she doesn't know well trying to touch her.



Spoiler: Vulva pic


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## Baymule (Feb 7, 2022)

Her vulva will get puffy and swollen. The ligaments on each side of her spine, over the hindquarters, will loosen up in preparation for delivery. Instead of a firm feeling, it will be soft and mooshy. Ewes can bag up weeks before birth, THAT will drive you nuts! Or they can have a tiny bag and all the milk will come in after lambs are born. 

I call those Jamaica Sheep, as in Ja-may-kuh me crazy! 

You are a true friend and a wonderful person to take this on for your friend. During this time, you may grow quite fond of the sheep and get a better understanding of how much your friend loves them. I just want to say thank you on behalf of your friend for taking the worry away from her. 

I’ll call a few friends to help
@Alaskan 
@Mike CHS 
@farmerjan
@Legamin
@Ridgetop


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## Laodicia (Feb 7, 2022)

Baymule said:


> Her vulva will get puffy and swollen. The ligaments on each side of her spine, over the hindquarters, will loosen up in preparation for delivery. Instead of a firm feeling, it will be soft and mooshy. Ewes can bag up weeks before birth, THAT will drive you nuts! Or they can have a tiny bag and all the milk will come in after lambs are born.
> 
> I call those Jamaica Sheep, as in Ja-may-kuh me crazy!
> 
> ...


I'll compare what I feel with her and the other sheep along her back tomorrow, I'm not sure I'll be able to tell if there's a difference they have their winter wool on. 

I missed a question you asked earlier, I don't think she really assists their labour, but I know she was sleeping out in the barn with them last winter when the babies were due. I can't stay overnight at her house though, I have 4 children, so I'm really nervous the baby will be born in the night while I'm not there and then be frozen by morning.

Idk if it's on my profile on BYH but I'm in Nova Scotia, and it has been decently cold here this past week. Although it's supposed to be at or just above freezing this week coming so maybe that won't be a problem. 

Thank you so much for helping. 

If I knew for sure she was in labour then I could ask my husband to maybe take the day off work, or possibly work from home so I could stay. I really don't want her animals to die because of something as simple as someone needed to be there.


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## Baymule (Feb 7, 2022)

Texas had a freak winter storm last winter, it got to -6F here. I know a lot of people experience such temperatures, but not Texas! I had 15 new lambs and one born during the storm. My “barn” is open on 3 sides, built for excessive HEAT! The lambs were fine. They are a lot tougher than you think. Mine usually lamb at night and surprise me the next morning. 

I’m sure she and lambs will be ok. You just keep doing what you are doing, she will do what she does.


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## Laodicia (Feb 7, 2022)

Baymule said:


> Texas had a freak winter storm last winter, it got to -6F here. I know a lot of people experience such temperatures, but not Texas! I had 15 new lambs and one born during the storm. My “barn” is open on 3 sides, built for excessive HEAT! The lambs were fine. They are a lot tougher than you think. Mine usually lamb at night and surprise me the next morning.
> 
> I’m sure she and lambs will be ok. You just keep doing what you are doing, she will do what she does.



That's what the temp was here 2 days ago. That makes me feel so much better thank you! Did you have a lamp for heat turned on just in case?


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## Mike CHS (Feb 7, 2022)

I'm late to the party but you seem to have everything under control.  We also have Katahdins but we are pretty hands off and normally lamb  in the pasture.  We do provide heat lamps in our nursery paddock but the sheep rarely take advantage of it.  One of our mentors spent some time in New Zealand sheep stations and told us that many of the owners went on Holiday when lambing started so that the best survived.   The ewes know what to do most of the time and you can normally rest easy letting them do what is natural.


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## farmerjan (Feb 7, 2022)

You are getting pretty good advice.  First off, I hope your friend is doing okay.  Second, you are a VERY GOOD FRIEND to help out this way.  

Does she have a smaller pen... called a jug.... to put in the momma with her baby separate from the rest since she is not a "very good mom" ????? It helps them to bond and the ewe cannot get too far away from the lamb so it will be able to nurse more/better.  
Since they are not first timers, I think you are okay with them doing their own thing.  The big thing is water and feed while it is cold to keep their metabolism up..... 

They look like Cheviots or crosses.... clean legs and face.  Dorsets have wool on their legs.... We had horned dorsets for years and really liked them but there is no market for the wool here.  Went to White Texas Dall sheep... hair breed but have the horns... not a friendly breed overall....


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## farmerjan (Feb 7, 2022)

Don't worry about taking the lamb in the house to weigh it.  If twins you are looking at 5-6 lb average, if a single might be as much as 8-10 lbs.  Make a guesstimate and give a smidgen less if you are worried.  If the ewe has had a recent shot, the lamb will get some through the placenta before she lambs... and the lamb should be fine.  We don't do any shots unless someone seems to be weak or something.


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## Laodicia (Feb 7, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> You are getting pretty good advice.  First off, I hope your friend is doing okay.  Second, you are a VERY GOOD FRIEND to help out this way.
> 
> Does she have a smaller pen... called a jug.... to put in the momma with her baby separate from the rest since she is not a "very good mom" ????? It helps them to bond and the ewe cannot get too far away from the lamb so it will be able to nurse more/better.
> Since they are not first timers, I think you are okay with them doing their own thing.  The big thing is water and feed while it is cold to keep their metabolism up.....
> ...


No she doesn't have that kind of a pen set up. If she wasn't away from home this mom and baby would have had this stall to themselves, but she was worried about the others being let out to pasture when they were nearing their due dates because I wouldn't know when to move them over. 

Health wise... She's waiting on a cardiologist but even best case it will likely be months before she can go back to farming on her own, if ever.


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## Laodicia (Feb 8, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> Don't worry about taking the lamb in the house to weigh it.  If twins you are looking at 5-6 lb average, if a single might be as much as 8-10 lbs.  Make a guesstimate and give a smidgen less if you are worried.  If the ewe has had a recent shot, the lamb will get some through the placenta before she lambs... and the lamb should be fine.  We don't do any shots unless someone seems to be weak or something.


Ok I'll keep that in mind. I was told for the adult to only give a second shot after the baby was born if she looked weak. I'm not entirely sure what a weak adult sheep would look like, but I guess not getting up and pushing for hay with the others would be a decent sign.

And for the baby I was told to give the shot within 24 hours. I suppose it's because she lost the baby from this ewe last year that she really wants it done.


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## Laodicia (Feb 8, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> You are getting pretty good advice.  First off, I hope your friend is doing okay.  Second, you are a VERY GOOD FRIEND to help out this way.
> 
> Does she have a smaller pen... called a jug.... to put in the momma with her baby separate from the rest since she is not a "very good mom" ????? It helps them to bond and the ewe cannot get too far away from the lamb so it will be able to nurse more/better.
> Since they are not first timers, I think you are okay with them doing their own thing.  The big thing is water and feed while it is cold to keep their metabolism up.....
> ...


Ohhh, the big ones probably are cheviots then. She does have a smaller one with fuzzy legs who did not appreciate pictures being taken.


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## farmerjan (Feb 8, 2022)

The smaller one looks like dorset or some similar cross.... being smaller I would not say too many other breeds as they are shorter but usually chunkier.  

You will do fine......


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## Alaskan (Feb 8, 2022)

Laodicia said:


> My friend said that this sheep who is going to have her baby isn't a great mother. I'm kind of panicking, but also... I mean I have kids of my own so not ENTIRELY new to the experience.... Sort of...


Those ligaments that @Baymule mentioned are the only sure fired way to tell when they will lamb (achem... I used to have goats, never had sheep... but close enough)  even with that wool, if you get your fingers down through the wool on either side of the tail where it joins up with the body... you should feel those ligaments.

They feel just like a pencil, one on either side.  Then they start to soften as they get closer to birth.  The completely vanish 24 hours or less before lambing/kidding, whatever...


Laodicia said:


> so I'm really nervous the baby will be born in the night while I'm not there and then be frozen by morning.


If that happens.... if the baby is still even slightly alive... then it is still ok, don't panic.

Pick up the babies and bring them inside, put the baby inside a strong garbage bag, lightly close the bag around the neck (you can use duct tape to hold the bag securely. Just make sure you don't restrict breathing. ) Then put all of the baby that is covered by plastic bag into a kitchen sink of comfortably hot water.  So...  your arms should think "hum, pretty hot, but comfortable ". 

The bag keeps baby dry.

Usually after maybe 20 to 30 minutes in the hot water (run the sink as needed, keep it good and hot), baby should pep up a bit.

Dribble a bit of *warm* something into them to see if they are warm enough to have a sucking reflex.  A little bit of warm water with a spoonful of sugar works fine.  

If baby sucks well, take him out and hold him up, help him nurse off of mom.  Usually if he gets a fully belly, then he will be fine, and you can relax.




Since you aren't sure if this ewe will be a good mom...  you might want to think up a way to tie her up if needed, or have a helper.... 

Sometimes a bad mom, if you hold the mom still so baby can nurse, everything ends up ok.  If you are lucky you only need to hold mom once or 3 times...  and then everyone settles.


Anyway, it is most likely that everything will be fine.  Usually the process goes smoothly.


Oh...  what kind of a warming station does she have?  I really liked using a heating pad duct taped in a freezer ziplock and hidden under an easy wash fleece lap blanket.  Heat lamps scare me due to the fire hazard.

But... close to freezing is plenty warm, especially if out of the wind.  I see no reason to have heat if you are close to freezing.


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## Baymule (Feb 8, 2022)

I never use a heat lamp, even during the storm we had last winter. I threw down hay every day for them to snuggle in and it worked. I put up a barrier to keep the wind off and all the sheep and lambs were ok.

You just keep us informed and we will help you along. Labor is usually short, the ewe will try to get off to herself, dig a depression, lay down, get up, lay down, get up. Once you see this behavior, it is easy to recognize for the next time. But don't be surprised if you go to feed and there are lambs, already up and sucking. And yes, it's ok if you catch and hug one.


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## Laodicia (Feb 8, 2022)

Alaskan said:


> Those ligaments that @Baymule mentioned are the only sure fired way to tell when they will lamb (achem... I used to have goats, never had sheep... but close enough)  even with that wool, if you get your fingers down through the wool on either side of the tail where it joins up with the body... you should feel those ligaments.
> 
> They feel just like a pencil, one on either side.  Then they start to soften as they get closer to birth.  The completely vanish 24 hours or less before lambing/kidding, whatever...
> 
> ...


Thank you! This helps a lot! 

She has a big plastic barrel stood on it's end and chained to the wall, with a hanging heat lamp inside. There is an entry cut at the bottom for the lambs to get in, and a small hole at the top that the rope comes out of for the light and it is tied to a stick that can't fit through the hole. Right now there is a 60 watt incandescent in it, but I could put a 250 heat lamp bulb in if it gets super cold.


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## Finnie (Feb 8, 2022)

Laodicia said:


> . Right now there is a 60 watt incandescent in it, but I could put a 250 heat lamp bulb in if it gets super cold.


I’m pretty sure 250 watts would be overkill, and quite possibly way too hot to be enclosed in a plastic barrel. 

I would bet she had success last year with the 60 watt bulb, and that’s why she has that one in there now.


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## farmerjan (Feb 8, 2022)

Definitely  do not replace the 60 watt with a heat lamp.  You will cook the lamb(s) in an enclosed area like that.  They need to have a little warmth if chilled, not hot.  Mostly it helps in the first 24 hours if it is REALLY cold out.  I think that you will be fine and they won't need it either.


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## Laodicia (Feb 8, 2022)

Finnie said:


> I’m pretty sure 250 watts would be overkill, and quite possibly way too hot to be enclosed in a plastic barrel.
> 
> I would bet she had success last year with the 60 watt bulb, and that’s why she has that one in there now.





farmerjan said:


> Definitely  do not replace the 60 watt with a heat lamp.  You will cook the lamb(s) in an enclosed area like that.  They need to have a little warmth if chilled, not hot.  Mostly it helps in the first 24 hours if it is REALLY cold out.  I think that you will be fine and they won't need it either.


Ok, good to know! I think the idea behind the heat lamp bulb was if it went down to -30C it might be needed, but it isn't supposed to. It's been a really warm winter here this year.


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## Laodicia (Feb 10, 2022)

Just an update, mama sheep didn't do anything, but one of the goats had it's water break today. I walked the whole pasture thinking she had already had the baby... Nothing out there though.

My friend will be home tomorrow morning, so at the very least I'll have someone who knows what to do on hand even if she can't physically do it herself.


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## Alaskan (Feb 10, 2022)

Laodicia said:


> Just an update, mama sheep didn't do anything, but one of the goats had it's water break today. I walked the whole pasture thinking she had already had the baby... Nothing out there though.
> 
> My friend will be home tomorrow morning, so at the very least I'll have someone who knows what to do on hand even if she can't physically do it herself.


You would think if her water broke...  there should be a lamb...


Frustrating when things don't go smoothly.

Good to hear that your friend will be there tomorrow to look things over.


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## Laodicia (Feb 10, 2022)

Alaskan said:


> You would think if her water broke...  there should be a lamb...
> 
> 
> Frustrating when things don't go smoothly.
> ...


It apparently happened either last night or this morning before the other guy came to check things. I'm really surprised there wasn't a baby. I took a picture and sent it to my friend, and she didn't say that there was definitely a baby around somewhere. I wish I knew more about it so I wouldn't have to worry, but I'm sure there was no baby around. And she still had a nice round belly.


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## Alaskan (Feb 10, 2022)

Laodicia said:


> It apparently happened either last night or this morning before the other guy came to check things. I'm really surprised there wasn't a baby. I took a picture and sent it to my friend, and she didn't say that there was definitely a baby around somewhere. I wish I knew more about it so I wouldn't have to worry, but I'm sure there was no baby around. And she still had a nice round belly.


Well... if your friend says not to worry...


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## farmerjan (Feb 10, 2022)

Glad to hear that your friend is coming home even if she is unable to physically do anything... at least you can get her advice right on the premises.  I am sure she is very grateful for all you have done so far.


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## Alaskan (Feb 15, 2022)

How are they doing?


Any lambs?


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## Laodicia (Feb 15, 2022)

Alaskan said:


> How are they doing?
> 
> 
> Any lambs?


No not yet.  I'll get some pictures for you guys once there are babies


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## Alaskan (Feb 15, 2022)

Laodicia said:


> No not yet.  I'll get some pictures for you guys once there are babies


The one who's water broke?  Was that something else?


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## Laodicia (Feb 15, 2022)

Alaskan said:


> The one who's water broke?  Was that something else?


Umm, the guy who was coming in the morning said that's what it was, but the baby is still inside and was moving yesterday. No clue what's going on with her.  It's the brown goat in the middle, and this is how she looked several days ago.


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## Alaskan (Feb 15, 2022)

Huh....  I would be worried.....


But. 

Not sure what I would do about it.....  I guess decide if she was worth a vet or not...  

Not sure if what is coming out is a broken umbilical...  or simply a string of gummy mucus....  

There could be 2 or more kids in there... and one dead and the other still alive....

Not sure.

But if she isn't in labor or trying to push...  not sure how to do anything...  

What I would do:

Make sure she continues to eat and drink well.  Keep an eye on her temperature,  if it gets elevated, you know there is a dead kid in there and she needs help.  At that point decide if she is worth the vet.

If her temperature stays ok, then she might carry to term (whenever that is) and then you will see what she has.  If there is a dead kid (and maybe there isn't a dead kid...  maybe that is just stringy discharge), depending on how long it is dead before kidding and how well contained the dead kid stays (ruptured sack or not etc.), the other kid or kids might be perfectly fine.  I had a goat with triplets, she kidded with zero issues.  One was dead, the other 2 were perfectly fine.   She needed zero help, zero infection and zero vet.  The 2 live kids were great, good healthy and strong.


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## Laodicia (Feb 15, 2022)

Alaskan said:


> Huh....  I would be worried.....
> 
> 
> But.
> ...


I've been asking about her every evening, still no baby and she seems to be alright. The owner is home right now so I don't really have much say in what happens goat care wise. She'll let me know if she thinks there's trouble, and I'll help her with whatever she thinks should be done.

The goat has been acting completely normal eating and drinking.


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## farmerjan (Feb 15, 2022)

It looks to me like she aborted and hadn't passed all the afterbirth which is more common if they abort.  But that is just my observation/opinion.


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## Laodicia (Feb 15, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> It looks to me like she aborted and hadn't passed all the afterbirth which is more common if they abort.  But that is just my observation/opinion.


As of yesterday most of it had dried up. But there was a little fresh blood. I did feel baby moving though. So maybe there is a dead one too idk. As far as we have seen there wasn't a baby around anywhere. And she's been kept inside since that first day.


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## farmerjan (Feb 15, 2022)

Sheep, and I am guessing goats, have been known to occasionally abort one of multiples they are carrying... as @Alaskan and others have said.  Hoping she hurries up and goes into labor and has whatever she is going to have... Since she is supposedly close to due date, you should have found something if she has been kept in.... Let's hope for the best....


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## Mini Horses (Feb 15, 2022)

Agree, looks to be abortion.  If she's only say 3 months along, that kid would only be a few ounces.  Hard to find..maybe 6-8" long.   They do their growth last 2 months.

Your doing an amazing job helping!!


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## Laodicia (Feb 16, 2022)

The goat mama's belly is smaller today. My friend thinks she's reabsorbing the baby.


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## Alaskan (Feb 16, 2022)

Laodicia said:


> The goat mama's belly is smaller today. My friend thinks she's reabsorbing the baby.


Well.... keep us updated.  Good that she is healthy.


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## farmerjan (Feb 17, 2022)

If there is anything still hanging out, or as you said some fresh blood when it was looking to dry up, she is not reabsorbing it.  It has been aborted, as @Mini Horses  said, it will be very small and quite possible that it was not seen.  When they reabsorb there is no outward signs of them "losing it" or anything expelled.  If she does not pass the rest of the afterbirth/placenta etc, she will wind up with an infection.  However you are doing what the owner says/wants so that call is up to her.  I still commend your helping her like you have and trying to learn in the "crash course".


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## Ridgetop (Mar 9, 2022)

If she aborted one fetus but is still carrying another in the other horn, she may go to term with that ne.  However, at mid gestation I would not think you would be able to feel the baby moving around.  Another option is a false pregnancy in one horn.  The false pregnancy may have ruptured expelling only fluid.  With a false pregnancy you would have uterine fluid, and small placenta but no fetus therefore no kid.  There would be no labor either ince there is no kid pushing its way out.  The other horn if the goat is still pregnant might still have a live fetus.  Since there is no sign of her going off feed, or temperature, I would let nature take its course and see what happens.


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