# Laminitis/Founder



## glenolam (Sep 1, 2010)

Anyone have any experience with this?  Two bucks that a friend of mine has are both experiencing rawness in between the toes on the same hoof - no other hooves, just one on each goat and it's the same one.  All her other goats aren't experiencing anything similar.

She was thinking founder because her daughter mistakingly fed them a lot (not sure what constitutes as a lot, she just said "a lot") of lactiating doe grain.  The bucks have no other issues other than limping.  Not off feed/water, no temps...just limping on the one hoof.

Her other thought was they peed too much on that hoof - any possibility that's true?

I asked her if she thought it could be hoof rot, but she says it's not as smelly and doesn't necessarily look the same.

I haven't seen their hooves myself, but looked up Laminitis/Founder and there's little info out there.  She has horses, too, and has seen it in them, which is why she thought of it for the bucks.


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 1, 2010)

Sounds like it might be foot scald.  It's caused by moist conditions, and usually precedes foot rot.  You can treat it the same way, by foot baths in zinc or copper sulfate, or Hoof N Heel.  I've had success with Koppertox (horse hoof med) as well.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 1, 2010)

Yep...I'd start with Kopertox as well.  

Or "Pritox" from Jeffers, which is just a cheaper generic of Kopertox.


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## Ariel301 (Sep 1, 2010)

Being the time of year that it is, and this being bucks...I'm going to say it's irritation from being peed on. My buck gets bald and raw on his face from it sometimes. They can wash it really well and apply vaseline to protect it, that might help.


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## glenolam (Sep 1, 2010)

OK - we'll here's an update -

She went down to check their hooves today and one of the bucks had maggots inbetween the toes.  I got a little more of the story today, too...

Turns out the bucks were in a back pen and she was out of town for a few days - which left her daughter to care for the bucks (one of the bucks "belongs" to the daughter too).  Three days later my friend returns and finds the largest grain pan she has filled to the top with lactating feed in with the bucks.  No hay (unlike what I thought originally, as she keeps her goats well fed...normally).

Of course, she took the bucks off grain and gave them good hay and fresh water.

I asked again if she thought it could be hoof rot, but she couldn't see why as it's still with one hoof, the same one, on each buck.  No one else.

I suggested that it may be foot scald or hoof rot, and the reason why no one else has it is because the does are penned away from them.  No clue as to why it would only be 1 hoof and none of the others, though.

And, this is probably a very stupid/rhetorical question, but are these guys still breedable right now or should they be quaranteed until this is gone?


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 2, 2010)

It's really hard to diagnose on the net with no pictures, and through a third party.   

Is there a wound in between their toes?  Just trying to figure out why there were maggots there.  

If I were the owner, I would clean their feed well, soak in zinc or copper sulfate, or at the _least_ soak in warm epsom salt water (soak all feet).  Then I would treat them with Hoof N Heel or Koppertox.  Make sure they're on clean, dry bedding, and for now keep those two isolated.  

She can also treat with Oxytet.  Usually 1 dose will do it for foot rot or scald.  

I wouldn't put them in with does until they're no longer having issues.  It's not fair to put a buck in with does when his feet are hurting.  He will want to chase them but not really be able to, or hurt himself more, JMO.  

And foot rot or scald can be on one hoof or all.  And it's just a coincidence that it's on the same foot on each buck.  IME, it's usually the front feet that are effected first/worst.


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## glenolam (Sep 2, 2010)

I know - it's hard for me to try helping her, too, because she lives about 45 min away so this has all been through conversation.  But at least throwing ideas around is better than keeping quiet, I guess ~

She said yesterday she started using Kopertox so hopefully it'll help.  After talking with her more last night, she thinks there's a combination of stuff going on.  Foot scald or rot, combined with peeing on their foots as well as possible laminitis/founder from the lactating feed...not a good situation to say the least.

Luckily, she's certain most, if not all, her does are bred by now, but I figured I'd ask if they should be allowed to breed still mainly because I was curious.  She's had goats much longer than I have and in her younger years was a vet tech so usually the questions are for me rather than her.


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 2, 2010)

I really don't think it's founder. Just doesn't sound like it.


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## Ariel301 (Sep 2, 2010)

It doesn't sound at all like laminitis. That doesn't cause external wounds (unless it is different in goats than in horses), it causes inflammation of the inner layers of the hoof, so you would see most likely swelling, the feet would feel extra hot to the touch and be sensitive to touch/pressure, and the animal will shift its weight from foot to foot or not want to stand at all because holding weight on the feet is painful. It also does not happen in a single foot, it affects all of them.


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## glenolam (Sep 2, 2010)

You all may be right - she said there was no swelling and it wasn't hot to the touch....

I get to see them Sat morning so I'll let you know how it goes.

What's the consensus on keeping the hoof wrapped at all?


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## goodhors (Sep 2, 2010)

Maggots only survive with dead tissue to eat.  They don't eat healthy flesh, which is why they are sometimes used in cleaning horrible injuries in people.  These would be sterile, laboratory bred maggots.  They are removed after consuming the dead tissue, tissue that is dying.  Maggots leave a sterile, healthy wound for treatment by the medical profession without the harsh steps needed otherwise, to clean it.

Regular barnyard maggots would not be sterile, carrying lots of germs, even while cleaning off dead tissue in the hoof.  NOT a good idea for the goat wound.

So I would agree with cleaning the tissue and hooves well, treating them with medication, but not wrapping so wound or sore can stay dry in the air.  Moist in the hoof crevices, between the toes, is creating a good home for disease.  Wrapping will keep things moist, not dry.  Goat pen needs a good cleaning, with lots of dry bedding to keep hooves dry between the sides, soak up any urine quickly.


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 3, 2010)

Don't wrap.  Treat like you would for foot rot or scald.


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