# Winter Birth



## that's*satyrical (Sep 9, 2011)

I have read on here about frozen babies & now I am worried! The doe I am getting will probably be due in December. I was wondering how much do I have to worry about the babies freezing in my climate? I am home most of the time but what should I do if it gets close to that time & it is cold & I am not home? How cold is "too" cold? I'm sure momma could keep them warm up to a point. I could just make it a point to have someone home at all times when the temp hits a certain point. Once she gets really close I am sure I will try to be home as much as possible, but you know how life works. The one time I have to leave for some reason is when she will choose to have the baby!!


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 9, 2011)

December in georgia should not be too bad.  do you get below freezing very much in December by you?  

Below 20 is when you have to really be checking on them every couple of hours. Below 10 is much tougher. 

I am assuming you have some kind of shelter from the rain and dry bedding for her. 

They will be fine as long as they get up and start nursing in 20 or 30min. The problem would be if they are too weak legged to get up, or mom is to nervous to let them nurse. The colder it is the sooner they run out of energy to keep their body going. They can last a good 8 or more hours on a warm day, if mom isn't cooperative, but that time frame goes down the colder it gets. I don't know the exact time frame for say 30 degrees, but I woulld say they would maybe have a couple hours before the cold would over take them. 

If you find a baby laying their cold and seeming confussed, the best thing you can do for it is give it a couple of teaspoons of corn syrup thinned with a little hot black regular coffee(not decaf), put it under a warming lamp(heat lamp) give him 20 minutes for the energy to get to his brain, then try again and see if the baby is more responsive to sucking and nursing. I use a 3cc syringe to feed a baby that has very little sucking reflex.


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## that's*satyrical (Sep 9, 2011)

Thanks so much. That makes me feel a lot better


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## jodief100 (Sep 9, 2011)

Put momma in a small pen inside the shelter.  if needed keep a heat lamp in there.  Make sure it is secure so it won't fall down and high enough so not to touch the babies and the pen is big enough momma can get away from the lamp if needed.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 9, 2011)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> Put momma in a small pen inside the shelter.  if needed keep a heat lamp in there.  Make sure it is secure so it won't fall down and high enough so not to touch the babies and the pen is big enough momma can get away from the lamp if needed.


I would do this if you are leaving for a few hours, and you don't want her to go up in a field or away from the shelter to kid, but if you are home I would leave her have plenty of exercise, atleast during the day light hours, at night it will be easier to keep track of her in a smaller area depending on your field set-up.  

We have 5 acres, but when the girls are close to kidding we lock them in a coral attached to the back of the barn at night, so they don't go up in the field, Or if I am really busy we may keep them in the corral and barn area all day, but they start to get on each others nerves if I don't give them enough space. 

We kid in January and february, We have no heat in our barn, I rarely close the doors, only if it is in the single digits, then at night I will close the barn doors. We have a few heat lamp barrels to warm the kids up when needed, We never leave them on past a couple of days of age, If it is above 30 in the barn, I only use the heat lamps to warm the kid the first night and then shut them off. If it is in the teens or below I may leave them on for a couple days.  Livestock kept too warm and in too stuffy of an enclosure can get pneumonia very easily or bacterial scours.


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## manybirds (Sep 9, 2011)

winter in georgia is like summer hear. if it dies then it was probably so week it should have died. sorry not to be sour and rude but well..... the nights here where getting down to low 40's in august. I hate cold. i hate snow. i hate winter. i hate wind. i hate frost. i hate ice. and guess where i live? in northern wisconsin and it gets as cold as canada here. uuuuuggggggggghhhhhhh! stupid winter


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 9, 2011)

manybirds said:
			
		

> winter in georgia is like summer hear. if it dies then it was probably so week it should have died. sorry not to be sour and rude but well..... the nights here where getting down to low 40's in august. I hate cold. i hate snow. i hate winter. i hate wind. i hate frost. i hate ice. and guess where i live? in northern wisconsin and it gets as cold as canada here. uuuuuggggggggghhhhhhh! stupid winter


But you have the Packers, that has to make up for it.  

I understand what you are saying, Kidding in December in Georgia, you may not even need shelter.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Sep 9, 2011)

We had one born during that cold snap after Thanksgiving last year with the 14* days and 7* nights.  Just piled on the hay and everybody snuggled down and was fine.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Sep 9, 2011)

manybirds said:
			
		

> winter in georgia is like summer hear. if it dies then it was probably so week it should have died. sorry not to be sour and rude but well..... the nights here where getting down to low 40's in august. I hate cold. i hate snow. i hate winter. i hate wind. i hate frost. i hate ice. and guess where i live? in northern wisconsin and it gets as cold as canada here. uuuuuggggggggghhhhhhh! stupid winter


Um, I'm assuming ya'll have never VISITED Georgia in Winter.  Unless you live in Alaska it's nothing like Summer.  We routinely get freezing temps and yes, it even snows.  If a kid freezes to death in 20 degree weather (which we DO have here in Dec/Jan/Feb) because it doesn't have a shelter I would NOT consider that a weak kid that needed to be culled anyway.  I would consider that a weakness of management.  Keep in mind folks, when someone asks a question that there is always the possibility that they will take your answer to heart.  We live in the South, not the tropics.

I actually like kidding out does in the winter because I get a good solid head start before cocci season.  When does are close to their due date we keep them closed in the kidding stall at night with a heat lamp (and baby monitor) or if it's cold during the day and I'm not at home.  What I don't like are those midnight checks when it's icy out.


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## FlightsofFancy (Sep 9, 2011)

FYI: this is is what NGA winters look like. It's not like up North, but our goats are not accustomed to the severe drops and changes in temps we have experienced in the last few years. My suggestion is don't gamble unless you don't mind loss and crying buckets of tears while chipping away at the hard ground with a pick axe to bury dead babies. Your goats deserve a shelter and it's helpful to have a heat lamp for those really cold nights. Please pardon my harshness but I just can not imagine my goats kidding outside in a foot of snow.

November: Bitterly cold with flakes just starting






December





January


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Sep 9, 2011)

Thanks for those illuminating pics FOF.   I happen to remember checking on ready-to-pop does last winter with temps in the single digits.  Do we have winter days in the upper 40s and maybe even lower 50s?  Sure!  And boy do I love them!  But just as an example the National Weather Service sites an average of 50-70 days per year where the daytime high is below 32 degrees.  And of course nighttime temps dip much lower.


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## FlightsofFancy (Sep 9, 2011)

Notice there are no pictures of my goats! They were in the barn looking out at us like we were crazy!  
 Plus I might add that it also depends on the breed of goat you are raising. Meat goats are pretty hardy with a thick coat and layer of body fat/conditioning. Dairy breeds are generally thin coated and thin skinned. So when planning housing there are so many particulars to take into consideration.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 9, 2011)

Breed of goat is a good point to make,  Here is one of mine during 3 feet of snow in Virginia. This winter we had 2 snow storms each one of them dropped over 30 inches.  
 It gets colder in Georgia than I realized, We lived in North carolina for 3 years, I didn't even have winter coats for my kids. I wouldn't have thought it got much colder than that, I must need to look at a map and see how far south it is. I was thinking it pretty much stayed about 40, especially in December. I would have shelter and a little heat lamp ready if it is only in the 20's.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Sep 9, 2011)

Meat or dairy- does kidding in Winter should have shelter considerations above and beyond Spring/Summer/Fall kiddings.  Once kids are dry it's not as much of an issue- our kids don't wear coats any time of year.  But anyone ready to let their does drop a wet kid out in the field in freezing temps better be ready to accept some losses.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 9, 2011)

Okay.... winter in Georgia...? c'mon! That is nothing compared to a NH winter! Just a couple years ago I had 7 ft tall snowblower snowbanks(snowblowers compress the snowbanks)

If you are worried, especially about night temps, then you can always set a red heat lamp on a timer.. so it runs during the coldest part of each day{or rather night, as that would be the coldest time}.

So everyone knows, that "<duh :rollseyes: >" was to myself, not to any of you!  Frankly, I am not sure how any of you could have seen it directed towards you, seeing how my original comment didn't include it, I added it to say that I realized that I had just stated the obvious. I am truly sorry that one or more of you thought it was directed towards you. I will be more careful to either not make statements toward myself, or be straightforward in stating that the comment is to myself with a "<---" on the forum so there is no future confusion as to who I may or may not be directing a comment to. Again, sorry for my unintentional offending of one  or more of you.


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## manybirds (Sep 9, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

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go pak go!


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 9, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> Meat or dairy- does kidding in Winter should have shelter considerations above and beyond Spring/Summer/Fall kiddings.  Once kids are dry it's not as much of an issue- our kids don't wear coats any time of year.  But anyone ready to let their does drop a wet kid out in the field in freezing temps better be ready to accept some losses.


Funny< I meant my children didn't have coats, We didnt' have goats at that time.


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## kstaven (Sep 9, 2011)

manybirds said:
			
		

> winter in georgia is like summer hear. if it dies then it was probably so week it should have died. sorry not to be sour and rude but well..... the nights here where getting down to low 40's in august. I hate cold. i hate snow. i hate winter. i hate wind. i hate frost. i hate ice. and guess where i live? in northern wisconsin and it gets as cold as canada here. uuuuuggggggggghhhhhhh! stupid winter


Actually you get far colder than we do and I'm in Canada.


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## kstaven (Sep 9, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> Meat or dairy- does kidding in Winter should have shelter considerations above and beyond Spring/Summer/Fall kiddings.  Once kids are dry it's not as much of an issue- our kids don't wear coats any time of year.  But anyone ready to let their does drop a wet kid out in the field in freezing temps better be ready to accept some losses.


Good shelters and dry bedding are a must as far as I'm concerned.


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## that's*satyrical (Sep 9, 2011)

Wow, I guess my concern for the goats having their kids in cold weather is considered stupid by some just because our winters aren't as harsh as theirs.  I didn't know it was a competition, I just wanted to make sure if my doe had her babies in the cold & I wasn't home I didn't come back to baby goatsicles.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 9, 2011)

This past winter we saw -20F, with wind chills obviously lower than that.... with the red heat lamp running at night, and both it & the white heat lamp running during the day, the lowest temp the barn saw inside was 20F.

We have our first December kidding at around Dec. 3rd this year... Thankfully it shouldn't be that cold yet up here... our coldest temps usually start to hit in mid to late January. I already have some dog sweaters on standby just incase, though.


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## kstaven (Sep 9, 2011)

You are correct for being concerned. But having many different people here and different thoughts you will encounter every opinion from kid sweaters, and heated kidding areas to survival of the fittest. So please don't take the comments personally.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 9, 2011)

that's*satyrical said:
			
		

> Wow, I guess my concern for the goats having their kids in cold weather is considered stupid by some just because our winters aren't as harsh as theirs.  I didn't know it was a competition, I just wanted to make sure if my doe had her babies in the cold & I wasn't home I didn't come back to baby goatsicles.


Not a stupid concern at all. None of us want baby goatcicles!  Not really a competition either, more just saying that if _our_ herds, in the nation's coldest areas, successfully have babies born in Dec/Jan/Feb with a little extra straw/mulch hay/pine bedding and a heat lamp or two, your herd down in GA(which is quite warmer than northern NH or northern WI) should be just fine with a heat lamp on the colder days, and potentially even some extra bedding if it gets below 32F.
Not dissing you, your herd, or your concern, so please don't take our gawfing as attacking... as I know it was not meant that way from me.


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## that's*satyrical (Sep 9, 2011)

No you are not who I was referring to. Comparing the temps & giving me an idea of what would be safe & what wouldn't is perfectly fine. It was the way a couple posts were worded like Georgia doesn't get cold and I shouldn't be concerned at all. We have some nice days but also plenty that get below freezing and I just didn't think it was very polite to imply that it never gets cold enough here to have to worry unless you know for a fact that it doesn't. We are in Northern Georgia in the mountains not in Savannah. Two completely different climates.


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## that's*satyrical (Sep 9, 2011)

Sorry everyone. I am probably overreacting. It has been a long day at work. I apologize if I took any of your posts the wrong way.


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## Livinwright Farm (Sep 9, 2011)

that's*satyrical said:
			
		

> Sorry everyone. I am probably overreacting. It has been a long day at work. I apologize if I took any of your posts the wrong way.


I can understand how you took all of our replies the way you did. It *has* been a long day, hasn't it. :/


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## Roll farms (Sep 10, 2011)

I agree w/ NSmithermond on the part about getting a jump start on growth before cocci / paraisite season kicks in.  Cocci will hurt a 1 mo. old kid a lot faster than it will a 3 mo. old kid who's had time to grow / get a good start.  We used to kid in March, but our fair is in June so we've been kidding in Dec / Jan for a while now.  It wasn't until then that I saw a dramatic drop off in cocci babies.  I also don't have to start cocci prev. protocols as early.


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## kstaven (Sep 10, 2011)

We start kidding in November and staged through until January. Really young ones coming into spring are more problems.


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## Hillsvale (Sep 10, 2011)

manybirds said:
			
		

> winter in georgia is like summer hear. if it dies then it was probably so week it should have died. sorry not to be sour and rude but well..... the nights here where getting down to low 40's in august. I hate cold. i hate snow. i hate winter. i hate wind. i hate frost. i hate ice. and guess where i live? in northern wisconsin and it gets as cold as canada here. uuuuuggggggggghhhhhhh! stupid winter


The is a very generalistic comment, one which had some visitors from the US towing snow mobiles into PEI in the dead of summer... .... in western Canada they rarely have snow (Vancouver), in eastern Canada we get snow.... lots some years not so much other years. It like my saying all of the US has California weather which in itself varies greatly.

Now onto the babies being born, last February we had a desperate cold snap.... -30's (celcius) and wind chill... one of my lovely babies I bought was born on this very cold day and thrived even without a heat lamp. Now I was a worry wart and when I brought him (and his mommy) home I stuck a doggie coat on him  I'm sure the others laughed at the poor bugger... but he went outside and frollicked in the then 2 feet of snow in the lower pasture.... I hope we have little snow this year but I will be breeding my girls in November for spring babies when is gets warmer... well above zero anyway .


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Sep 10, 2011)

that's*satyrical said:
			
		

> Sorry everyone. I am probably overreacting. It has been a long day at work. I apologize if I took any of your posts the wrong way.


Not overreacting.  The point is, regardless of whether *my* farm is colder than *your* farm, the fact remains that there will be plenty of days this winter with freezing temps.  Dead baby goats are nothing to be flippant about.  Our kids are too valuable for us to consciously risk frozen neonates.  For us a bedded, dry shelter with a heat lamp provided at kidding means we've minimized that risk.


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## manybirds (Sep 10, 2011)

well i suppose it depends on what part of georgia too. and what your goats are used too. baby goat sicles arn't my favorite popcicle flavor. too.........depressing.


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## manybirds (Sep 10, 2011)

Hillsvale said:
			
		

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I guess i just always thought of canada as cold and snowy most of the time.


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## kstaven (Sep 10, 2011)

manybirds said:
			
		

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You need to see more of the world. I live north of Washington state and we are much warmer in the winter and get 1/4 of the snow they do. We can be cutting lawns in April here.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Sep 11, 2011)

kstaven said:
			
		

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I grew up in Western WA- people here assume it's snowy all winter there.  It is in the Cascades of course, but not closer to sea level.


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## manybirds (Sep 11, 2011)

kstaven said:
			
		

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lucky you. in april we're getting a few feat of snow half the time. sometimes it starts to get a little warmer but either last year or year before it was still snowing a whole butt load. they where having snow shoe races in april. I knew washington didn't get too too much snow in most parts. for all the cold though most parts of wisconsin are very pretty at least.


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