# Gaining Goat Muscle?



## FlowtheGoat

I'm entering the Houston Livestock Show & Rodeo with my boer goat, FeFe. We just did the County Youth Fair back in January and he won 8th place out of 19. The judge said that he just needed a little more muscle in the front. We have a treadmill at my school's Ag Farm that we use to walk the goats. There's a metal rack thingy at the end. If i put his back or front hooves on the ramp and let him fast walk (slow at first of course until he gets the hang of it) while his other hooves are walking on the treadmill, will that help gain some muscle in the front? My Ag Teacher told me to just feed FeFe for 2 weeks about 3 weeks ago so now i think that there's all fat and no muscle (thanks a lot, teacher)


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## Roll farms

Exercise will build muscle...being kept in a pen will build fat.  
Take the goat for a walk going uphill as much as possible.  
Make sure you feed it a good goat feed, according to the amount of exercise it's getting.


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## FlowtheGoat

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Exercise will build muscle...being kept in a pen will build fat.
> Take the goat for a walk going uphill as much as possible.
> Make sure you feed it a good goat feed, according to the amount of exercise it's getting.


Thanks! I can't believe that my teacher kept me from exercising him for that long! It was so obvious that he'd lose muscle! Now i have to gain all that again! In only like 4 or 5 weeks......


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## ()relics

....To set the initial frame of a show animal you would keep it penned and feed it HEAVILY...once his/her frame is set, not to full size but enough to determine that it will size up and will make a nice show animal, then you need the exercise....I would drop the hay if you are feeding any and raise the protein level, again I don't know what you are feeding him..With the increase in protein you start your "conditioning"....SLOWLY...both the feed ration change and the exercise...Litely musculed in the front....sounds like it needs some more work than just walking....Did you say if it was a wether/doeling?  different sexes need different exercise routines...BUT too much fat will drop any sex to the back of the group....Sounds like your animal has the frame and has some fat cover just needs some condition to put him in the top of his class.....Now the work starts...I don't value too much what judges say about my animals...Different judges have different standards....Espceially at a county fair level...JMO...Make your animal fit your goal push him as far as you can then bring him to the ring, this is the reason selection of show animals is VERY IMPORTANT,  Some animals have loads of potential while others are perennial middle to bottom class finishers, _No matter how much work /feed/exercise_ you give them...If the judge doesn't like him, Big Deal, the next judge at the next show may place him on top.


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## FlowtheGoat

()relics said:
			
		

> ....To set the initial frame of a show animal you would keep it penned and feed it HEAVILY...once his/her frame is set, not to full size but enough to determine that it will size up and will make a nice show animal, then you need the exercise....I would drop the hay if you are feeding any and raise the protein level, again I don't know what you are feeding him..With the increase in protein you start your "conditioning"....SLOWLY...both the feed ration change and the exercise...Litely musculed in the front....sounds like it needs some more work than just walking....Did you say if it was a wether/doeling?  different sexes need different exercise routines...BUT too much fat will drop any sex to the back of the group....Sounds like your animal has the frame and has some fat cover just needs some condition to put him in the top of his class.....Now the work starts...I don't value too much what judges say about my animals...Different judges have different standards....Espceially at a county fair level...JMO...Make your animal fit your goal push him as far as you can then bring him to the ring, this is the reason selection of show animals is VERY IMPORTANT,  Some animals have loads of potential while others are perennial middle to bottom class finishers, _No matter how much work /feed/exercise_ you give them...If the judge doesn't like him, Big Deal, the next judge at the next show may place him on top.


Thanks! By the way, will i be disqualified or something if i had to drag him? He's very stubborn and even his previous owner couldn't get him to walk....


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## ()relics

I doubt they will disqualify you unless he becomes too unruly...But you can't expect to win either if you are dragging him...He needs to move on his own so the judge is able to "see" him...If you are fighting with him its tough to make him look very good...I tell my kids, the buyers of my show animals,and people that I halter break animals for...Do everything you can to make the animal ready ToWin...On the day of the show if you don't think that you have a legitimate chance of winning don't even show the animal...Go sit in the stands and watch how everyone else prepared their animals...JMO...Because I feel that any animal that I sell/train/or work with is a contender depending on the showman....GoodLuck...BTW Texas is a tough place to win...LOTS of Very Nice Animals...which you already know


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## FlowtheGoat

()relics said:
			
		

> I doubt they will disqualify you unless he becomes too unruly...But you can't expect to win either if you are dragging him...He needs to move on his own so the judge is able to "see" him...If you are fighting with him its tough to make him look very good...I tell my kids, the buyers of my show animals,and people that I halter break animals for...Do everything you can to make the animal ready ToWin...On the day of the show if you don't think that you have a legitimate chance of winning don't even show the animal...Go sit in the stands and watch how everyone else prepared their animals...JMO...Because I feel that any animal that I sell/train/or work with is a contender depending on the showman....GoodLuck...BTW Texas is a tough place to win...LOTS of Very Nice Animals...which you already know


Hmm...well, he DOES walk only when another goat/human is behind or in front of him... But i wonder if they'll make us walk individually? If they do, we'll definitely lose. Do you think that a Hot Shot would work?


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## ()relics

you really want him to walk by himself, naturally...This is an important part of judging a wether, I am assuming that he is a wether.  The champion animal has to be structurally sound, conform to the standards and show the proper finish for an animal of its weight class...BUT it also must _Look Good_...and must be able to move about easily...You can't get an animal to finish weight if it can't walk to the feeder and this is part of the score....So To Win...you have to Highlight your animal as the BEST ONE IN THE RING....Which means move him around and show the judge every side...He doesn't want to see you wrestling with the beast every time he looks your way...I start my wethers/show animals early with leading lessons, my son is working with his now, the wether is only 70 days old and not weaned yet and our fair isn't until July....Believe Me sometimes the best animal doesn't win if it DOESN'T look like the best animal because there is usually "only a little difference" between the top 5 finishers and every point is important...Sometimes at the county level the judge will overlook an "out of control" animal but any other level You Are Doomed if your wether is anxious looking...


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## FlowtheGoat

()relics said:
			
		

> you really want him to walk by himself, naturally...This is an important part of judging a wether, I am assuming that he is a wether.  The champion animal has to be structurally sound, conform to the standards and show the proper finish for an animal of its weight class...BUT it also must _Look Good_...and must be able to move about easily...You can't get an animal to finish weight if it can't walk to the feeder and this is part of the score....So To Win...you have to Highlight your animal as the BEST ONE IN THE RING....Which means move him around and show the judge every side...He doesn't want to see you wrestling with the beast every time he looks your way...I start my wethers/show animals early with leading lessons, my son is working with his now, the wether is only 70 days old and not weaned yet and our fair isn't until July....Believe Me sometimes the best animal doesn't win if it DOESN'T look like the best animal because there is usually "only a little difference" between the top 5 finishers and every point is important...Sometimes at the county level the judge will overlook an "out of control" animal but any other level You Are Doomed if your wether is anxious looking...


But he's literally STUBBORN. His owner always gets top 3 in the shows and even he couldn't get this one to walk. And that's a really stubborn goat! But as i said, he will walk when another goat's behind/ in front of him. Does the Houston Livestock Show show in a line or individually?


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## Roll farms

Is this a buck or a wether?

Do you take him out and walk him around?  With treats / food / motivator of some kind...?

IMHO, a hot shot will teach him to fear you when you have it and ignore you when you don't.


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## FlowtheGoat

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Is this a buck or a wether?
> 
> Do you take him out and walk him around?  With treats / food / motivator of some kind...?
> 
> IMHO, a hot shot will teach him to fear you when you have it and ignore you when you don't.


I believe that he's a wether. Yes, i try to walk him around but i always have to drag him. That's why i always have to use a treadmill. When my Ag teacher used a hot shot on him, he walked great for 3 days but, as you said, he ignored me when he found out that i wasn't going to use it every day. That was my only time using it. So what do you recommend?


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## Roll farms

I'd recommend making him your friend, find something he LOVES and get him to WANT to follow / be with you...some treat or food.

What are you using to lead him (collar-wise)?


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## FlowtheGoat

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I'd recommend making him your friend, find something he LOVES and get him to WANT to follow / be with you...some treat or food.
> 
> What are you using to lead him (collar-wise)?


LOL Trust me, Im' his friend. After i exercise and feed him, when i leave, he goes insane. He baa's so loud that everyone rushes to my pen asking "is he okay?". XD he also has a habit of following me everywhere but i don't punish him for that. But yes, i use a collar with a leash sometimes. My Ag teacher told me to only use the leash when we're going away from the Ag Farm with FeFe. I try to use alf alfa hay too but we ran out and my mom keeps forgetting to get more before the Ag-Mart store closes. But it closes 30 minutes after my school gets out. But i'm always held up by Horse Judging and Student Council meetings.


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## currycomb

okay, my husband always dragged his goats, never gave them a chance. i came along and started using horse methods to teach to lead. progress is slow sometimes, but stand at side of goat, pull on collar to ask it to go forward, if no response, reach back and grab tail, as soon as a response, release all pressure everywhere. if the goat continues to walk, great, go along for the ride, if not repeat until it does. our goats will now walk beside you without any tugging or pulling, but the minute you try to hurry them or put pressure on their necks, they brace up and stop. hope this might help.(you can't make him walk, but you can make not walking uncomfortable)


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## FlowtheGoat

currycomb said:
			
		

> okay, my husband always dragged his goats, never gave them a chance. i came along and started using horse methods to teach to lead. progress is slow sometimes, but stand at side of goat, pull on collar to ask it to go forward, if no response, reach back and grab tail, as soon as a response, release all pressure everywhere. if the goat continues to walk, great, go along for the ride, if not repeat until it does. our goats will now walk beside you without any tugging or pulling, but the minute you try to hurry them or put pressure on their necks, they brace up and stop. hope this might help.(you can't make him walk, but you can make not walking uncomfortable)


Hmm, that might work! I'll try that when i go up there in a few minutes! Thanks!


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## ()relics

...goats aren't horses...Better to try the positive reinforcement...Like a little peanut butter on your finger...While you can train a horse with a "pain" stimulus because they remember and associate , Goats can react badly because they never associaate the stimulous with the desired reaction and never learn...A horse is highly trainable while a goat seems to be highly Untrainable...especially if you are starting late in his life...JMO...I train horses, dogs, and goats...dogs and horses work the same way...while goats are completely different...again IMO


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## FlowtheGoat

FlowtheGoat said:
			
		

> currycomb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okay, my husband always dragged his goats, never gave them a chance. i came along and started using horse methods to teach to lead. progress is slow sometimes, but stand at side of goat, pull on collar to ask it to go forward, if no response, reach back and grab tail, as soon as a response, release all pressure everywhere. if the goat continues to walk, great, go along for the ride, if not repeat until it does. our goats will now walk beside you without any tugging or pulling, but the minute you try to hurry them or put pressure on their necks, they brace up and stop. hope this might help.(you can't make him walk, but you can make not walking uncomfortable)
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, that might work! I'll try that when i go up there in a few minutes! Thanks!
Click to expand...

Okay, the pulling tail thing didn't work. He just took a few steps forward then tried bitting at my hand


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## FlowtheGoat

()relics said:
			
		

> ...goats aren't horses...Better to try the positive reinforcement...Like a little peanut butter on your finger...While you can train a horse with a "pain" stimulus because they remember and associate , Goats can react badly because they never associaate the stimulous with the desired reaction and never learn...A horse is highly trainable while a goat seems to be highly Untrainable...especially if you are starting late in his life...JMO...I train horses, dogs, and goats...dogs and horses work the same way...while goats are completely different...again IMO


What do i do? I'm not frustrated because i love animals but my Ag teacher is getting a little worried that i might not do well because of him. But i really need him to walk individually!


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## ()relics

some treat he likes in your hand in front of him...encourage him to take a few steps then reward hin with alittle of the treat, not all of it...take a few more steps, then a little more treat...Soon he should follow your lead without even thinking about it, of course all the time you have the lead on him...Most goats " lose their minds" over their favorite treats...Although I don't like the treat training method; it may be your only option at this point...Make your first sessions short and then after you are done reward him with the treats again...End on a positive note..the next training session should be easier because he will remember the "treat thing" and should be more eager to follow along if for no other reason than so he doesn't miss the treat...


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