# LGD Issue



## Hobby Farm (Jan 24, 2013)

We sold a very nice family a male pup from our GP back in May (so he is 10 months old now).  We got a message from the guy last night saying this dog was drawing blood on some of his goats and wanted to know if I knew what to do.  I haven't got back with him yet, and wanted to get some feedback from others first.  My first thought is that it's due to his age.  At 10 months he has the body of an adult, but still the mentality of a pup.  I could be wrong, but I doubt he's hurting them intentionally.  Luckily, I didn't have any problems with this pups father.  He was with the goats from the time he was 8 weeks old.  I didn't put him directly in with them, but was penned up right beside them until he was over a year old.  i feel horrible even though it isn't my fault.  I feel like I sold them on something, and then it didn't turn out that way.

Anyone agree/disagree with the reason I stated?  Anyone have a potential solution (besides getting the dog out of the goat pen)?

Thanks.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 24, 2013)

There is something definitely wrong. NO 10 month old LGD should ever attack the goats. I would suggest you get a great deal of info. 
*I am wondering when you sold the pup, had you assessed the pup for Guardian work*. This is highly unusual. Seperated LGD's from livestock is not the proper training of a LGD. Typically the bonding, whether it be to the animals or the territory must start out young. All LGD pups should be reared with the stock. If the owner did this then this is an even greater concern. How old was the pup when purchased? Some questions...

1. Is the dog attacking NEWLY introduced animals, or are they animals he has always been with
2. Is thee dog up to date on Rabies vac
3. What was the environment the pup was raised in
4. Anything new, sudden changes etc
5. Is the dog attacking or rough playing..which is still completely unacceptable

That is to start with.   Also is this a purebred GP?

You may want to consider moving this post to Livestock Guardians


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## Southern by choice (Jan 24, 2013)

Have you heard anything back?


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## Four Winds Ranch (Jan 24, 2013)

Sorry, I don't have much for answers for you! I am hoping someone will have some ideas for I am having the same problem with one of my 9 month old pups!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 24, 2013)

Four Winds Ranch said:
			
		

> Sorry, I don't have much for answers for you! I am hoping someone will have some ideas for I am having the same problem with one of my 9 month old pups!


4 winds- what is your pup doing?


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## babsbag (Jan 24, 2013)

Southern- You should write an LGD guide book..."How to Choose and Train Your Next LGD." 

Your knowledge and understanding of these dogs AND your willingness to share is serioulsy priceless.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 24, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> Southern- You should write an LGD guide book..."How to Choose and Train Your Next LGD."
> 
> Your knowledge and understanding of these dogs AND your willingness to share is serioulsy priceless.


*

X2  *


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## Southern by choice (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks guys.

I do want to say to those that are having trouble... I know how heartbreaking it is to go through having a dog that is not doing what it is suppose to be doing.  

Often an owner will start having problems but wait too long to get help for proper correction. More often than not the owner _is trying_ to correct but may not know exactly what to do and they don't want to give up on the dog, then the situation becomes worse and detrimental... these dogs in the end don't fare well. The owners get exasperated. Understandably so!  

Most of the time a dog coming from LGD working parents will be a great working LGD, but there are times that a pup won't fit the bill, so to speak. I really want to encourage those that are struggling with a LGD that is behaving badly. 

Quite a few LGD owners have ended up using a training  collar, some refer to them as a shock collar. Shock collar just sounds harsh but in reality these collars are a great training tool.  They are not for "punishment" but for _training and correction_. They are also expensive, but very well worth the price. For those that consider this a good option just remember to use the collar properly. READ how to use the collar. For those I know that have needed to use one, they had great success.

I commend you LGD breeders out there that provide continued support to your pup's new owners.


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## poorboys (Jan 25, 2013)

I think at his age, he does have a puppy instinc in him, wanting to play. I agree with southern by choice that they should come from working parents and be raised at birth on around the animals they need to protect. we had one female a couple of years ago that we sold, because she wouldn't stop harassing the goats, chasing and pawing which would make the ears bleed. it really does come down to when the pup was put in with the herd and the disapline he receive. I believe in firms NO"S and trips out to get them familiar with the goats, and like southern said, Is he full-blood?


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## Hobby Farm (Jan 25, 2013)

Yes, he is full blooded and came from working lines.  His mother was born right out on the pasture from a pair of working sheep LGDs,  and his dad has never had any issues with the goats or chickens on our farm.


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## goodolboy (Jan 25, 2013)

We like to make sure we have aleast two dogs in a pasture. Seems to give them someone to play with besides the sheep. I know that all farms aren't that big, so the situation is alittle differant with everyone. But the dog needs to be taught that it is doing wrong.


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## poorboys (Jan 25, 2013)

I don't think it would be your fault, how did they train him? and like goodoleboy said, he could use another pry's to keep him on his job.


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## Four Winds Ranch (Jan 25, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> Four Winds Ranch said:
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My pup keeps trying to play with the sheep, like he would another pup, jumping on them, grabbing ears,and has ripped one of their ears. The sheep are starting to run from him now and he figures they are trying to play back at him! :/  There is a nother pup around the sameish age as him in the same pen for him to play with and whatnot. Luckily the other pup dosent show too much interest in playing sheep!


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## Four Winds Ranch (Jan 25, 2013)

Four Winds Ranch said:
			
		

> Southern by choice said:
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I have just invested in the "Shock collar" so will see how that goes!!!


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## EllieMay (Jan 25, 2013)

The shock collar will work as long as you can catch the dog doing something wrong MOST of the time (if not all the time).
If you only catch the dog and zap him sometimes or on occasion, the dog just gets taught that sometimes his neck hurts.

I had to move my intact male out of the pasture with my sheep because I was expecting my female to go into heat. 
She was left alone with the sheep and all was well until she became bored and began 'playing' with the sheep.
I had a shock collar on her, but she would 'play' at night, so I never caught her; I only saw chunks of sheep hair all over the place in the morning.
I ended up putting my neutered male in with her so she had company at night and that solved the problem.
In her defense, she was going through the awful puppy stage where everything is a chew thing.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 28, 2013)

Hi hobby farms... did you hear anything back?


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