# Cadbury's babies - 2 wk pics 7/2/12- can you give me color dscrpt now?



## Missy

Ok, I have a female New Zealand(sp) and a New Zealand x Dwarf lop cross. They were together for about 10 minutes but nothing seemed to happen between them except the fact she attacked him a few times. I had her for about 5 months before I got him.  It has been quite awhile since that 1 time they were together. Today I noticed her pulling out her hair and hauling huge mouthfuls of hay around. I looked in her box and has a huge pile of her hair. Do rabbits sometimes just do this? She is a large rabbit much bigger than the other one, I never thought they bred, so it never occured to me to watch her. She is also in rather a cross mood today. lots of grunting. Could she be pregnant? How long before she has babies if she is would you guess? 

Thank you in advance.


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## ruthless

They normally give birth after 28-31 days but sometimes go longer.    It sounds as if she is getting ready to deliver, showing the signs by making a nest, pulling hair and being a bit grumpy.  

However she also could be having a "false" pregnancy and there wont be any babies.

You are just going to have to wait and see at this point.


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## DianeS

Rabbits tend to give birth 31 days after breeding. But you put the nest box in 28 days after breeding so she can make her nest in it, and so it's already there in case the kits come early. Even if she does not kindle on time, don't take the nest box out until at least 35 days after breeding (or longer if you like). In the nest box put lots of hay or straw. 

And make sure her cage has baby saver wire on it - that'll stop the kits from falling through the cage floor and sides, and increase the chances that they'll be found and live even if she kindles on the wire instead of the box. 

It only takes seconds for rabbits to breed, so she could have been bred without you knowing it. It's also possible that she's having a false pregnancy. As the pp said, you'll have to wait and see.


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## Missy

Do rabbits have any discharge? I thought I noticed something on her fur by the tail area, when I lifted her up today, I did notice she has nipples now, I mean she always did I guess, but they are much longer. She has been going in and out of her box. When she is in her box, she lays in her pile of fur. I kinda poked a bit in the fur, and nothing is there yet.

Also yes the wire is baby friendly, and the box has a bottom.


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## Missy

I went out this evening to find six pretty good size baby rabbits on the meta wire, 2 were dead(one was just not alive, the other had been mostly eatten). 2 of them I had to put down due to the fact she chewed off the legs and ears from both of them, they were alive however. The last 2 were un harmed as they managed to get themselves cuddled together and in herwhat I assume excitement, flipped a food dish over them and in turn could not get to them, I put them in her box and was hoping maybe she would care for them, however she went after them grunting. She is an outside rabbit and the dog run is near the hutch, I am wondering if she was scared due to the dog(but she always has been around the dog) and decided it wasn't save. She had built a very nice nest, but then failed to use it. Is this common with first time momma rabbits? I have the babies with some hay, her fur and a heating pad in the house now, If I force her, she will allow them to nurse with me holding her still, grunting in the begining, then quieting down, they are warmed up and have full bellies for now. What else can I do?


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## Missy

Also with 6 babies being quite large, should I be expecting more? She had them all within about 2 hours, from me checking on her last. I have been watching for the last 1/2 hour and nothing...


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## DianeS

Six is a decent sized litter, I don't think I would expect more. But I wouldn't be surprised by more, either! As tragic as it is, accidentally eating parts of the babies does happen. The mom tries to clean them off and can't tell the difference between "stuff" and kits.  Plus she's freaked out because these things keep coming out of her... even if she started in the nest I bet I'd jump out and run around in circles if I didn't know what was going on, either. It's a wonder first time litters live at all!

If she'll let you hold her in the nestbox for feeding, then that's what I'd continue to do. Twice a day - morning and evening - is plenty. Leaving them in a nestbox full of straw/hay and mom's fur the rest of the time is fine. No heating pad - they'll keep each other warm in the fur just fine. Use cotton balls that are pulled apart and dryer lint if you need more fur than is available. 

Just keep them somewhere safe. For instance I have to put mine in a closet and keep the door closed, otherwise the cat would get in and do who-knows-what to them. 

And congrats on the two!


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## Missy

Thank you, for your help. The last 2 past on last night. I am not sure what happened, I was expecting this though. I put her in with the buck this morning and she submitted to his advances right away. This time, I am going to move her to a nice and quite location before she has her babies. I am hoping for better luck this time.


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## Hens and Roos

Missy said:
			
		

> Thank you, for your help. The last 2 past on last night. I am not sure what happened, I was expecting this though. I put her in with the buck this morning and she submitted to his advances right away. This time, I am going to move her to a nice and quite location before she has her babies. I am hoping for better luck this time.


sorry to hear this, hope you have good luck this next time   our doe is due this coming monday and it's her first litter


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## GLENMAR

I do not think that is unusual for a first litter. She should know better next time. Put you next box in with her 25 days from breeding.


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## Missy

Ok, so far so good I think. I had attempted to breed her again right after the rest ofher babies died, she accepted the buck right away. I tried again later that day, she growled and grunted at him, I tried again a few days later, more attacking, growling and grunting. Now I am sitting here at day 30. She is not pulling any hair this time. I had her bottom side up and thought maybe I could feel babies moving. 

????Why no hair pulling????

Also I froze some goat clostrum(sp) after tippy kidded just in case but then forgot to ask if I could use it for baby bunnies? I am attempting to prepare for the worse after last time.


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## Missy

Mother is a NZ the dad is a NZ x hop mix. She had 4 one was dead in the cage part, the other three are alive and in the nesting box. However she is not in with them. She was briefly, but now she is back out munching away like nothing happened. Is this normal? Any clue as to what color these babies would be?


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## Bunnylady

Normally, a doe with a young litter will go to the nest box for a few minutes around dawn and maybe at dusk (I have had some does that only nurse once per day). The doe gets into the nest box and stands over the litter, the babies have to crawl to her, find a nipple, and nurse - interesting detail, as newborns, they often nurse upright, it's only later that they flip over. She will stand there for a few minutes, and then leave. Any baby that didn't get a tummyful on that go-around is out of luck until the next feeding, roughly 12 hours later. That is the normal pattern for most does. Some people think that is poor mothering, but think about it - most of the things that are a threat to the babies are a threat to the doe, too. A wild rabbit's litter would be in a burrow, underground, where temperatures don't swing quite as dramatically as they do above ground. By staying away from the nest, the doe doesn't alert predators to the presence of her litter, which in a way is protection of a sort. Rabbits don't produce large quantities of milk, but what they produce is very "nutrient dense." Baby rabbits grow astonishingly fast!

As to the colors of the kits, I'm seeing 2 brokens, one of which might be a Broken Chestnut (what colors are the parents?). Can't really say on the third baby, yet. Congrats on live babies!


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## Missy

What a relieve. Just checked on them again. All three and snuggled together and warm. The mother is white. The father is a light brownish/chocolateish/blueish color. I will have to get pictures of him. He has different colors.


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## bunnyperson

http://www.welshrabbitry.com/birth.html     I bookmarked this site when I had my first litter, because I was confused why she didn't stay in there as well. It has some pictures of fed babies


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## Missy

Wonderful site, thank you


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## Missy

Here are some pictures of the family.

MomSolid white w/red eyes and pink rims around them)(Is that an Albino? or just a white rabbit?

Cadbury:






Dad: (No idea what color he is. Anyone have a clue?-has white underbelly and dark brown eyes. Suppose to be a NZ x lop mix)

Baloo





Was not pleased with being on top of the rabbit hutch





Babies Day 2:


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## bunnyperson

Red- Eye White is Albino.


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## Bunnylady

Your doe is a Ruby-eyed White. Genetically, REW's are true albinos, but _nobody_ calls 'em that!

Your buck looks like a badly sun faded Chestnut that has undergone several partial molts. It looks like he's starting one again - which is why his face is so much darker than the rest of him. Hopefully, he'll do the whole business this time; he'll wind up one shade of brown if he does.


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## Missy

Bunnylady said:
			
		

> Your doe is a Ruby-eyed White. Genetically, REW's are true albinos, but _nobody_ calls 'em that!
> 
> Your buck looks like a badly sun faded Chestnut that has undergone several partial molts. It looks like he's starting one again - which is why his face is so much darker than the rest of him. Hopefully, he'll do the whole business this time; he'll wind up one shade of brown if he does.


lol. I am not sure why I find your post so funny. He has looked the way he looks now since I got him.  Can I do anything for him and this molting?


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## manybirds

Missy said:
			
		

> Here are some pictures of the family.
> 
> MomSolid white w/red eyes and pink rims around them)(Is that an Albino? or just a white rabbit?
> 
> Cadbury:
> http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj281/missymac_photo/003-10.jpg
> 
> 
> Dad: (No idea what color he is. Anyone have a clue?-has white underbelly and dark brown eyes. Suppose to be a NZ x lop mix)
> 
> Baloo
> http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj281/missymac_photo/001-13.jpg
> 
> Was not pleased with being on top of the rabbit hutch
> http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj281/missymac_photo/002-11.jpg
> 
> Babies Day 2:
> 
> http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj281/missymac_photo/004-13.jpg


doe is ruby eyed white the buck appears to be a lighter tort (i can't tell variety for sure due to lighting but it may be blue)


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## Missy

So far it seems the babies will not look at all like either of the parents. lol. The last litter, which did not survive, had solid pink and solid black skinned babies. I guess I will have to wait a bit longer to see what I have.


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## Missy

So far so good. All babies are still going strong!!!


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## bunnyperson

I'm glad to see they are doing good, and I'm hoping you will post pictures as they develop. I am really curious to see the outcome of this breeding. I'm looking into breeding a New Zealand White with a Blue Rex to see if I can bring some color to the babies.


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## Bunnylady

You have a somewhat different situation going on here, as far as the colors. Your buck is solid colored, clearly, he's not a Broken. Some of the babies are Brokens. Broken is a dominant gene, which means it can't "hide" behind other colors. If a rabbit has the the Broken gene, you'll see it - with one exception, and that's the REW. How can you tell if a white rabbit is a broken? Well, you can't, not by looking at her. In this case, you have Broken babies, the buck is obviously a solid, so the Broken gene must have come from the doe.  Most REW's aren't carrying a Broken gene, so most of the time, you don't get spotted babies by breeding a white rabbit to a colored rabbit. This time, you did, because this particular REW is carrying a Broken gene.

The buck has Agouti markings, and at least one of the babies appears to have them as well, so I'm betting at least one of the Brokens turns out to be a Broken Chestnut. The solid colored baby I'm still not sure about. It looks like a self in the one picture, possibly a Blue?


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## Missy

The solid baby does look blue more and more as it ages. The NZ REW momma came from people who had only the parents(both of which looked exactly like her and the rest of the litter looked exactly like her. The male I have no other background except that the the mother was a NZ, and the father was a dwarf lop. I will see if I can find more information.


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## Missy

I have read the rabbits only feed there babies once or twice a day. My doe is in there every couple of hours feeding. Either I catch her coming out of the nesting box, or when I check on her, she is hovering over the babies. The babies half the time are as round as they are long. Is this a problem? Maybe she is only checking on them, but they just seem so round.


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## DianeS

It is not a problem as long as all the kits are being fed. Some rabbits (like people) are just different. Do make sure she isn't using the nestbox for a litterbox, and change the bedding more often if she is.


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## Missy

Here they are at 1 week. 

The one on the right is white with black markings and black spots. The one one the bottom is white with black markings and black and brown spots. The last one is ??? Blue???


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## Missy

Still going strong  

I like how they are all different. They are moving around a bit more and their ears look like they doubled in length. I just can't get over how cute they are. 

At what age can you tell sexes? I was checking things out today and to me it doesn't look possible at this point.


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## Bunnylady

There was a time when I could sex a kit at a week old, but my eyes aren't that good any more. Besides, I worry that it might hurt them, so now I wait until they are at least 3 weeks old. Because what you are looking at is very tiny, you have to be very aware of details. The little buck has a "doughnut" the opening is a dot, and it stands up equally all way 'round. The doe has a V, the opening is a slit, and the part furthest from the anus stands highest, tapering down to level with the skin at the back. The buck's "parts" are placed a teensy bit further away from the anus than the doe's, but since we're talking millimeters here, it takes practice to see it. Bucks can have a split penis (a DQ) that can look like a doe's vulva, so some of the other details are worth noting. But remember, rabbit people joke about rabbits changing sexes for a reason! 

Just a side note on sexing really young kits - if you've handled them much, you know that they frequently wind up peeing when you are holding them (that's why I call 'em squirts at this age!). If the pee just sort of dribbles down the bunny's tail, it's probably a doe. If it shoots you in the eye, it's probably a buck!


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## Missy

I do handle them quite frequently, I have yet to be peed on...knock on wood....I read your post then went to check on things. As I had them bottom side up, I quickly realized that there was no way I was going to be able to check sexes the conventional way. The little opening is just so small. And all three look exactly the same right now. Ah well I have nothing but time anyways.


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## therealsilkiechick

i can accurately sex mine at 8-10 days old no matter what breed a rabbit is but most people can't. it takes alot of practice but once ya know what you are looking for and right way to hold them your good to go. we handle all our babies everyday from birth and up. teaching myself to sex them early helped to know faster who was not staying and would be for sale. that way we know right away who we were not keeping and don't get to attached to them. it's easier on the kids if they know right off the bat the ones not staying. i have only ever had babies pee on me when they are only a few days old if i forget the fans or a/c is on and takke them out to check bellies but never had them do it while checking the sexes of them.


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## Missy

Mine are nine days old right now. Do you do it the same way as you would an adult?


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## Missy

Here are the 2 week pictures. Can anyone describe colors now Sorry about the nesting box, I fill it with hay, and momma carries the hay back out. I give up, she must know what she wants


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## Bunnylady

Broken Black, Broken Chestnut, and interestingly, looks like the solid one is a Smoke Pearl (I thought it looked a little light for a Blue).


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## Missy

Smoke pearl? Excuse my ignorance, but why is the interesting? Is it uncommon?


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## Barbara

I know this is late to chime in but I see a butterfly on babies nose..English Spots have those markings, do Broken Chestnuts also have those markings?


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## Bunnylady

Barbara said:
			
		

> I know this is late to chime in but I see a butterfly on babies nose..English Spots have those markings, do Broken Chestnuts also have those markings?


Rabbits with the broken pattern typically have color on the ears, color around the eyes, color on the nose, some color on the back/sides. They may have a double row of "buttons" on their belly, elbow spots, and cheek spots. The broken pattern is showable in many breeds; there are a few (like the Checkered Giant and English Spot) that are _only_ shown in the broken pattern. A lot of breeds aren't very picky about the exact placement of color; for example the Mini Rex only specifies some color on the nose, balanced nose markings being preferred, but only the complete absence of a nose marking is a DQ. In the "marked" breeds (those that award points for the markings), the placement of color becomes very important,  with it reaching its most precise requirements in the English Spot.


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## Barbara

Thanks, I love learning from all you smart people. Also too lazy to go searching for the answer. I am just starting with bunnies and bought three english spots who aren't marked well enough for show, so I will love them and hug them and call them George
My NZ breeds are for meat and my first bunnies were born by surprise this past Tuesday. They feel cold but are still surviving. They are in a wired suspended cage under an outside open shed in a nest box stuffed full of hay and fur. I am more worried about the heat here in coastal SC, so why are some cold to the touch?


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## Bunnylady

Baby rabbits have trouble regulating their body temps until they get properly furred out, which is why it is critical that they have a good nest of hay and fur to snuggle together in. Babies that get separated from each other may be a bit cooler than their huddled-together siblings at these temps, but they shouldn't feel cold. Are you sure they are all getting fed? I would be very concerned about any that are noticeably cold to the touch, particularly if their tummies aren't full and round. Baby rabbits can survive without food for a day or two, but not much longer than that.


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## Barbara

I am worried, they are never all together when I check in the fur and hay. She goes in with them and stands while I put everyone under her. There is still a couple who are cold and tummies not full.  I fear i will lose them, but it is her first litter so I am prepared to deal with the loss


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## Barbara

Lost two today. Maybe the remaining three will survive. Their bellies are fuller than the ones who died.


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