# All about cows



## Flock Master64 (Sep 27, 2017)

HI, i plan on getting a calf or two in a few years so i decided to learn as much as i can now. Any bits of addvice you can give me is what this thread is for. Such as how much space they need, how many cows should i have so they dont get lonely ect... Also what are your favorite "breeds?" of cows. THANKS!!!


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## Baymule (Sep 27, 2017)

How much space do you have, what kind of fence and do you have a shed or shelter for them? will you be raising them for the freezer?


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## Flock Master64 (Sep 27, 2017)

11 acres and i dont have a fence or housing yet. i want to learn how much space i need before i set that up. No, theyre more pets than anything else. Ill probably use them for milk.


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## Baymule (Sep 27, 2017)

So you want a dairy cow. Jersey cows make good homestead milk cows.

@farmerjan


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## TAH (Sep 27, 2017)

Beef is also really good.


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## Flock Master64 (Sep 27, 2017)

TAH said:


> Beef is also really good.



Shey?


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## Flock Master64 (Sep 27, 2017)

Baymule said:


> So you want a dairy cow. Jersey cows make good homestead milk cows.
> 
> @farmerjan



Awesome thanks


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## greybeard (Sep 27, 2017)

Too many unknown factors missing to properly address your questions. 
#1 being no one has a clue which continent, nation, state or which region you are located in. It matters..a LOT.
For instance..
Here, I realistically need 2 1/2 acres per animal unit. That is, a cow with a calf by her side or a lactating cow and that only holds true if there is normal rainfall for good forage.
I recently visited a cousin out in the arid Trans Pecos region of Texas and he needs 42 acres per cow/calf pair. 

You will of course, have to breed the animal(s) in order for them to start giving you some milk. That means a bull or AI. 
A bull won't like staying home after he has bred the few females on 11 acres..meaning some really great fences will be needed or you rent, borrow a bull or go AI.
Cows are not like goats..they don't much care if it's raining or not, and will only go into shelter if it is very cold, wet and windy. They come with a leather coat right out of the box.


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## TAH (Sep 27, 2017)

Flock Master64 said:


> Shey?


Yes! Jake!


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## Flock Master64 (Sep 27, 2017)

TAH said:


> Yes! Jake!


IT IS YOU!!


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## Flock Master64 (Sep 27, 2017)

greybeard said:


> Too many unknown factors missing to properly address your questions.
> #1 being no one has a clue which continent, nation, state or which region you are located in. It matters..a LOT.
> For instance..
> Here, I realistically need 2 1/2 acres per animal unit. That is, a cow with a calf by her side or a lactating cow and that only holds true if there is normal rainfall for good forage.
> ...



i live in the midwestern area of the United States.


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## TAH (Sep 27, 2017)

Flock Master64 said:


> IT IS YOU!!


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## farmerjan (Sep 27, 2017)

Okay, since @Baymule  put me in there....  I have to agree with @greybeard also...knowing the general area will help with some of your questions.  The midwestern area is pretty vague, and no we are not asking for your street address.  Northern states if the midwestern part of the US are cold, have different needs than the more southern states in the "mid western"  part.  I'm in Va, the western part.  We are well suited to beef and or dairy.  There is ample grazing, normally a decent rainfall to make good crops, even if it is only hay but there are a fair number of row crops like corn, soybeans etc..

  We figure 1-2 acres per cow calf pair in a normal year, or about 1 1/2 acres per animal to get a fair  amount of grazing.  That will not supply all the animals needs but will help to keep it healthy and happy.  Sectioning it off into "lots" of some sort will allow you to rotate the animal(s) and get more grazing and keep the grass fresh.

Cattle are not pets, yes they can be very good companions, but always remember they are animals, and BIGGER than you type of animals.  You can get as attached as any girl ever got to her dream horse.  

All that said, cattle prefer to at least have 1 buddy of the same category, namely a cow likes a cow for a buddy.  They are herd animals.  Prefer their own type to "herd"  with.

For some real good down to earth advice for beginners, get the Storey publication about raising a calf, or raising a beef animal or one on milk cows.  The are often available through TSC or any book store or the library.  It is great that you want to try to learn as much as possible before you tackle the project.  There are numerous monthly magazines pertaining to homesteaders and small farm animal ownership.  

If you are interested in dairy, to milk for yourself, then Jerseys are a good smaller breed.  There are miniature breeds but they are often very pricey.  You could get a guernsey although they are a bit bigger, but they have a creamier, yellowish tint to their milk and butterfat due to increased beta-carotene in the milk.  You can use a dairy cow strictly for milking;  which means YOU HAVE TO BE THERE EVERY DAY....or as a nurse cow that will feed calves and then you separate them for 12 hours when you want milk the next day... There are tons of things to consider.  
Yes wanting milk also means breeding and having a calf to induce  lactation....and bull calves are good as a steer for the freezer.

Really, get a book and do some reading then decide what type of bovine you want.  11 acres is more than enough for grazing, but you will have to buy hay for winter, if you are where there is much cold and grass doesn't grow.
Talk to your county agriculture dept., extension agent, go to the local feed store.  Talk to a neighbor that has cattle,  get involved in 4-H or the FFA...they are always looking for volunteers and you can learn alot.


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## Flock Master64 (Sep 28, 2017)

farmerjan said:


> Okay, since @Baymule  put me in there....  I have to agree with @greybeard also...knowing the general area will help with some of your questions.  The midwestern area is pretty vague, and no we are not asking for your street address.  Northern states if the midwestern part of the US are cold, have different needs than the more southern states in the "mid western"  part.  I'm in Va, the western part.  We are well suited to beef and or dairy.  There is ample grazing, normally a decent rainfall to make good crops, even if it is only hay but there are a fair number of row crops like corn, soybeans etc..
> 
> We figure 1-2 acres per cow calf pair in a normal year, or about 1 1/2 acres per animal to get a fair  amount of grazing.  That will not supply all the animals needs but will help to keep it healthy and happy.  Sectioning it off into "lots" of some sort will allow you to rotate the animal(s) and get more grazing and keep the grass fresh.
> 
> ...



Wow thanks!


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## farmerjan (Sep 28, 2017)

Can I ask how old you are?  Like teenager, or 20-40 or retired age?   Will you be doing all the work or will someone else be a "partner"  like a spouse or brother/sister, to share the chores?   I get the feeling since you "connected"  with micah, that you are younger rather than near the age of alot of us "mature" adults...LOL.  But things like that do need to also be considered in the scheme of things and what type of animal you can reasonably deal/work with.


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## Flock Master64 (Sep 28, 2017)

I am a teenager and I'll probably be taking care of them by myself. 


....  Lonely Jake


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## WyndSyrin (Sep 29, 2017)

If you are going to get cattle I would suggest at least 4 total 3 heifers and a bull if you want calves to sell. Now bear in mind I am still in "Remedial Cow" as far as experience goes, but there is a ton of good information out there that you can learn from. Also as a first time cow owner you will want to become good friends with a large animal vet. This will prove invaluable for you when something goes sideways, and with cows it will happen. Believe me I have seen it happen on the farm where I work.(See my post on bottle calf). The vet will have very good information on what medications to use if you are going to doctor your cows yourself. Also that brings up several other things that you will need. Catch pens, a chute with a head gate for starters. Owning cattle requires careful planning and making sure that you have everything in place before you bring home your first one.

But here is some of what I know for cows; In Missouri, figure about 1-2 acres per cow/calf pair. That being said I am on a farm that has 120 head of cattle and 4 bulls. They are on about 361 acres. We also use some of that acreage to make hay as well. 

Again with your 11 acres  3 heifers and a bull-might want to have a steer in there to keep the bull company- would be more than enough The best way I would suggest with that would be to Section off what you are going to use for grazing in such a way that you can keep at least one-two portions between the heifers and the bull.

Next thing to consider would be what kind of cattle you would want. Dairy cows; well consider yourself married to the farm, as you have to milk the cows twice a day every day. In this case I would suggest maybe looking into the Dexter cows. they are quite small and easy to work with. Most Dexter bulls I have discovered are about 4' at the shoulder. Beef Cattle are a close second in what I would suggest. 

As Farmerjan as said cows are not pets. I consider my self very lucky that my oldest bottle calf is very respectful of me. Then again I have been working with him since he was 11 days old. He sees me as momma, but also knows that I will not put up with certain things. Bottle calves are cute, but they are tons of work that a first time cattle owner should not get involved with unless they have people that can help them out with what to do. I speak from experience on this

Hope this wall o text helps


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## Flock Master64 (Sep 29, 2017)

WyndSyrin said:


> If you are going to get cattle I would suggest at least 4 total 3 heifers and a bull if you want calves to sell. Now bear in mind I am still in "Remedial Cow" as far as experience goes, but there is a ton of good information out there that you can learn from. Also as a first time cow owner you will want to become good friends with a large animal vet. This will prove invaluable for you when something goes sideways, and with cows it will happen. Believe me I have seen it happen on the farm where I work.(See my post on bottle calf). The vet will have very good information on what medications to use if you are going to doctor your cows yourself. Also that brings up several other things that you will need. Catch pens, a chute with a head gate for starters. Owning cattle requires careful planning and making sure that you have everything in place before you bring home your first one.
> 
> But here is some of what I know for cows; In Missouri, figure about 1-2 acres per cow/calf pair. That being said I am on a farm that has 120 head of cattle and 4 bulls. They are on about 361 acres. We also use some of that acreage to make hay as well.
> 
> ...



wow thanks a lot. That all really helps.


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## Bossroo (Sep 29, 2017)

Keeping a bull for only 2 or 3 cows and possibly a steer  will not be of the best path to a profit.  Feed and operating costs as well as your labor will be way too much.  Use AI , it will be much cheaper and you will have a much more higher quality calves to keep or sell .


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## WyndSyrin (Sep 29, 2017)

While AI would be a good idea, I have to ask how much does it cost to get started with that? In the start having a bull and steer to keep the bull company might be better, but again I am still learning. Yet you would only keep the bull for say 2yrs then get a new one if you keep the heifers from those you breed in the first place.


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## Flock Master64 (Sep 29, 2017)

whats AI?


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## WyndSyrin (Sep 30, 2017)

Artificial Insemination. Dairy Farms will do that because the Dairy bulls are known to be quite mean.


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## farmerjan (Sep 30, 2017)

Most dairy farms use A I  so that they can pick and choose bulls that will compliment their cows so that the (hopefully)  ensuing heifer calf will be better than her dam.  Improving the genetics.  Also, by using A I you can choose from many different bulls and not have everyone bred to the same bull.  You don't have to "change out bulls"  if you keep the heifers so that they do not get bred back to their own sire...and 2 years would be luck, most heifers will start coming in heat anytime after 12  months, so a new bull would be needed yearly unless the heifers are kept well away from the bull so he can't get to them and get them bred back too young. 
That said, many dairies also keep a clean up bull so that cows that don't settle to an AI breeding  after 2 or 3 times, they go with a bull so that the cows don't go too long between calves.  The ultimate is 12 months, practically it is 12-15 months on many farms if the cow is a high producer, she may not come into her first heat after calving for a little while if she is putting all her energy and body reserves into producing milk.
Yes dairy bulls tend to be more aggressive than beef bulls; some of that is because they are often kept penned in small lots and not used as much for breeding as beef bulls that are allowed to run with the cows, and have a more natural type existence.  Beef bulls do tend to be quieter but NO BULL is to ever be considered as a pet.  They can turn on you as can any cow that is feeling threatened.  Especially one that has a new calf to "protect".  

Since you said you are a teenager, I really do think that you need to get some basic raising a calf/steer/cow type books like the Storey publications I mentioned.  Get some of the basic info on what it takes to keep an animal, feed, hay, equipment, vet needs/costs.  Then after some thorough basics, decide what you want to raise....  and WHY  YOU WANT TO RAISE IT.   Then worry about some of the other things, like breeding calving and such it that is where you want to go.  I think that getting in with a 4-H  or  FFA  group, often through school, would be a very good way to get some practical hands on experience.


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## WyndSyrin (Sep 30, 2017)

Also maybe try to find a part time job working on an active Cattle Ranch to see if that is something that you really want to do


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## Simpleterrier (Oct 1, 2017)

The first thing I would do is get hired on with a farm do that for a couple of years then see if u want your own cow. That way u can get payed to learn. Not loose money to learn


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## Gray Farms (Oct 4, 2017)

Also to be considered along with fencing is handling. Meaning corrals, loading chute, and working chute. Because its inevitable weather you have one, ten, or a hundred your going to have work them. Weather it be loading, giving vaccinations, worming, castrating, assisting in birthing, tagging, or any other vet work. And your going to have a system strong enough to hold them and safely handle them.

When getting into cattle buying you stock is the cheep part when starting from scratch. Its everything else that really costs the most. You can buy a good cow for $1000 but it'll cost 3 times that in fencing.


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