# COPING WITH PREDATORS DOWN-UNDER



## The Old Ram-Australia (Nov 29, 2018)

*G'day folks,our main problem is what is know as Wild Dogs.When the First Peoples came from up North they brought with then their "camp dogs" and over 000's of years they evolved into what was the Modern Dingo.With the arrival of the white man and in the ensuring 200 years or so the wild dingo has mated with all manner of domestic breeds to create the current wild dog.

The following video contains some terrible footage about the damage the wild dog does and how farmers are taking steps to reduce the damage.





 https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2072606462761049
			




*


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## Rammy (Nov 29, 2018)

I dont have facebook. Bummer.


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## greybeard (Nov 29, 2018)

Nor do I but there is no shortage of documentation regarding the wild feral dog problem there.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/r...e/news-story/ec179ba27a49f501920ee98b7d6784ba

If you want to see a similar video, instead of posting a video on open forum that may (or may not) be acceptable to all viewers, I'll make it so you have to just click the picture.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Nov 29, 2018)

Sorry that was the trailer her is the whole show (I hope).....https://iview.abc.net.au/show/landl...8VLQAt044xtGcZFQMzm91nLLAkVOHAht2qQnj7BZNN3fs   T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Nov 29, 2018)

Sorry I did not mean to offend .The purpose of the item was to show there is a developed solution...T.O.R.


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## greybeard (Nov 29, 2018)

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Sorry I did not mean to offend .The purpose of the item was to show there is a developed solution...T.O.R.


You didn't.......that I'm aware of.
But in this day and age, the whole dang world seems to be looking for (and often finding) some reason to 'be offended'.

(but....I did get the following with your last link:
*Video Player Error*
Sorry, there has been a technical error with this video stream. This issue has been logged with our technical team for investigation.)

Perhaps it is not available in our country?...


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## Latestarter (Nov 29, 2018)

No offense taken that I'm aware of. It is what it is. I was able to watch GB's link. there was no link in your opening post that I could see. The last link you provided opened to a main site with a selection of numerous videos of all manner of things.


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## greybeard (Nov 29, 2018)

This should have been one of the viewing options, but it was also this one that gave me the error.
(it may have looked a bit different on your device..I squeezed the image a bit to get it to upload)


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Nov 29, 2018)

Here was I thinking it would be "so easy"! so lets approach it from another angle.search abc ivew and see what you get.What you got was the right item GB...T.O.R.


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## Baymule (Dec 2, 2018)

greybeard said:


> If you want to see a similar video, instead of posting a video on open forum that may (or may not) be acceptable to all viewers, I'll make it so you have to just click the picture.



If a video of what predators do to our livestock offends viewers, then they are on the wrong forum. They need to sell their animals if they even have any and don't come back here. GB you know as well as anyone, if not better, what predators can do. 

T.O.R. you didn't offend anybody. Reality sucks, better for people to know what is coming at them than to lose their flock because of ignorance. Education isn't always pretty.


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## Carla D (Dec 2, 2018)

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> *G'day folks,our main problem is what is know as Wild Dogs.When the First Peoples came from up North they brought with then their "camp dogs" and over 000's of years they evolved into what was the Modern Dingo.With the arrival of the white man and in the ensuring 200 years or so the wild dingo has mated with all manner of domestic breeds to create the current wild dog.
> 
> The following video contains some terrible footage about the damage the wild dog does and how farmers are taking steps to reduce the damage.
> 
> ...


We don’t have dingos in this area, but we do frequently have packs of wild dogs. Nothing is safe from them. Not people, cattle, horses, pets, or any livestock for that matter. I don’t think they are controlled with trapping. More likely a shotgun. In Wisconsin we also have wild hogs that are pretty destructive as well. Then the havolinas in the southern states. I don’t know much about the havolinas though. Are dingos the biggest threat you have to deal with?


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## Carla D (Dec 2, 2018)

I swear I’d seen a wolverine on our farm a month or two. They are almost never seen by people. There have only been 3-4 of them seen in Wisconsin over the last 6 year time period. Those are pretty scary critters as well.


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## Dee Mini Pigs (Dec 7, 2018)

Gday mate, 
This is a happy life stock forum, for people to come together for smaller matters with habitat interests and looking after stock, a lot of us are small hobby farmers, the content and political realism may be too much for some that you have have portrayed. Yes, I live up north mate, and wild dogs are the least right now, FIRES, are worst! You just got nothin left! No bloody stock at all! Could you please think about the big picture for some of us? Yes there is solutions for dogs but not for drought or fires, mate. That’s just livin in Australia!


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## Baymule (Dec 7, 2018)

Southern California has had bad fires, the entire town of Paradise burned to the ground. Now the rains have started and they have mudslides. 

In 2011, Texas was in a terrible drought and we had our share of fires too. You are right @Dee Mini Pigs  when it is a fire, there is nothing left. Just gone.


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## Latestarter (Dec 7, 2018)

Dee Mini Pigs said:


> the content and political realism may be too much for some that you have have portrayed.


 Au contraire! There have been quite a few discussion on these boards that the average layperson would rather avoid. When you live a "farmer's life", there's pretty much equal good with the bad and you might as well talk about both. The site does restrict some subject matter, more to avoid fights and driving folks away, but if it's an aspect of running a farm, pro or hobby, it's pretty much fair game here.  There are quite a few other predator discussions as well as a very large group of livestock guardian dog (LGD) owners here as well.


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## Rammy (Dec 7, 2018)

If you dont want to read the content, dont read it.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Dec 9, 2018)

G'day folks, as a general statement  it seems to me that folks up there have an aversion to the range land being fenced.The idea of the thread was to suggest that over time the fencing can increase the return from sheep farming in a "real farm" situation.Down here there is a continual battle with Kangaroo mobs (sometimes in their 000's).

If Dee Mini Pigs wishes to start threads on the drought and bush-fires,I will be happy to contribute to the conversation...T.O.R.


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## Rammy (Dec 10, 2018)

I dont have an aversion to fencing. It makes for good neighbors and keeps your animals from roaming sround, getting hurt, or worse.
I think your posts are very informative and intetesting. I hope this doesnt mean that you are not going to post anymore.


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## greybeard (Dec 10, 2018)

Rammy said:


> If you dont want to read the content, dont read it.


x2!
[sarcasm on]however... in this day and time, of snowflakes and sunbeams being in abundance even in the hottest  and coldest climes, 
we should always offer a safe space for those who so easily take offense 
at any word or rhyme.
[/sarcasm off]


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Dec 10, 2018)

G'day folks,firstly I would like to explain my comments on the fencing issue.Down here except for the land occupied by defense every inch is in private hands be they farmers, miners or First Peoples.As I understand it in the US the bulk of land is controlled by the federal govt(please correct me if I am wrong) and for the bulk of the population who "do not " reside in the country the vision of the wide open range lands is something they wish not to change.It would seem to me that while the feds continue with the current system of "short term leasing" for grazing and with farmers having to hire shepherds to move the stock over large un-fenced ranges the COP is not likely in the short term to be reduced and increasingly the push to increase wages and conditions for these workers (well deserved in my view) will simply increase the cost pressures on producers .Somewhere I recall that the number of sheep farmers in the US with more than a 1000 breeders is a small % of the overall group who claim the title of "sheep producer".

In Europe and especially France the farmers who inhabit whole valleys in the Spring will bring together all of their animals and as a group, hire shepherds to manage the flock over the Summer on the high mountain pastures which for century's has been classed as "common land".The knowledge held by the shepherds on the "art of shepherding" is passed from one generation to the next and actually becomes the life's work for the family concerned.


Down here the saying goes "good fences make good neighbors" and even today "hobby farmers " on small lots (say 100 acs) are looked down on by the "real farmers" who are their neighbors .These newcomers with their different types/breads of livestock and the absentee nature of the way they farm (city job Mon/Fri) and the farm on the weekend(this was us for about 20 years) in the past have caused angst to their big farmer neighbors due to lack of attention to fences,weeds and feral animals, meanwhile inside most of these "hobby farmers" beats a heart with a desire to one day be a real farmer like their large neighbors.In our own case it was not until I was well into my 50's that this was achieved,but for the 20 years prior to that we had a plan and worked progressively towards it.

Although we do not have the range of predators that you face we do have all manner of "grazing predators"and except for the Kangaroos and wombats have all been introduced and although they differ from place to place they all impact the farmers efforts and the environment.In our own district  (which is less than 1 hours drive from the Nations capital we have Feral Goats, Pigs, herds of Deer and of course 000's of Kangaroos and it does not matter how careful you are with your land and livestock  management when a "dry spell" arrives so will the grazing ferals. In the case of our National Parks they are required by law to ensure they erect and maintain adequate fencing and to control feral species within their boundary which in the main they do in spite of the "bleating" from the animal rights people who in the main "live and work in the city's".

Now I fully understand that the majority of the folks on this site in the main have quite small holdings but it really is important for the long term future that they treat it like a "business" if they are to progress to the dream of the real farm and farming life it brings.

In answer to Rammy,no ,it does not mean that I am withdrawing from the group because this group is a part of my life at present "which keeps me sane"....T.O.R.


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## Rammy (Dec 10, 2018)




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## greybeard (Dec 10, 2018)

TOR, the federal (US) Govt owns only about 1/4 of the US land mass...28% to be exact as of 2016..610 million acres. Most of that is managed by Bureau of Land Management and US Corps of Engineers and most of it is out in the western 1/3 of the country.. Another 11 million acres is owned by the Dept of Defense.

Not all of the US Govt holdings are surface holdings either. Some of that 610 million acres is subsurface mineral rights, with the surface being in private hands.

About 60 million acres is in title to the US Govt but is held in trust for the tribes of Native Americans... These Indian lands are not considered to be US Public" lands. Total of all US Federal "owned or controlled" land is around  640 million acres. All the rest of the 2.27 billion acres of US soil is privately owned.

In my state, there is very little federal land. The biggest federal parcels in Texas are Ft Hood  (340 sq miles) Army Base, Fort Bliss Army Base, Big Bend National Park, Padre Island National Seashore, and 4 National Forests. There are probably a dozen relatively small National Wildlife Reserves as well. Texas doesn't have much federal land because Texas was a sovereign nation before becoming a US State...it was never a "US Territory" like most of the rest of the West was.

A lot of the red you see in the Appalachian states (Ky, West Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina is made up of federally owned subsurface rights.Coal. There are also several large national parks, National Forests and Civil War Battlegrounds & cemeteries in those states





another view with a better legend:


 

For those who are curioius about what the feds own in your state, follow the link, scroll down to the applicable state and click the "print/PDF Map" link. You state will open in a separate tab.
https://nationalmap.gov/small_scale/printable/fedlands.html


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## Baymule (Dec 10, 2018)

Private land in Texas is pretty darn close to sacred. You don't trespass on other's property. 

It makes sense to fence and cross fence your property in order to keep the land from being overgrazed. Rotating the pastures keeps the grass in good order. Across the road from us is a 98 acre parcel, adjoining a 100 acre parcel. It is leased for cattle grazing. The cattle are rounded up and taken to other leased lands to rest the grass so it can grow back. Who ever has it leased knows grass.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Dec 10, 2018)

Thank you G B. for that insight .I had a feeling that you would know this sort of stuff and set me on the right path...T.O.R.


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