# 2 day old pups lethargic



## woodsie (Apr 17, 2014)

Any tips on getting a lethagic pup going. I have them in heated box and trying goat's milk with blackstrap molasses in a bottle but not much for a suck reflex, they seem pretty weak. Really need to get them going, especially the one that's tummy looks empty. Help please!


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## elevan (Apr 17, 2014)

@Southern by choice !

I don't know much about helping pups, sorry.  Hang in there and keep trying


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## Goat Whisperer (Apr 17, 2014)

Keep trying. Do you have the bottle that is for puppies and kittens?


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## woodsie (Apr 17, 2014)

i wish i had a puppies bottle but no if i will see if my hb can pick one upin town...it is hard not to drown the poor things, i have a human bottle and a lamb/goat nipple.

They are getting warmer and drinking swallowing but not vigorous yet.


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## elevan (Apr 17, 2014)

A syringe (needle off) might be the better way to go (or do you have an eye dropper) rather than the baby bottle or nipple until you can get a proper puppy bottle.


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## woodsie (Apr 17, 2014)

thanks the syringe is working better! unfortunately we lost the weakest one.


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## alsea1 (Apr 17, 2014)

Be sure to gently massage their tummys and hind ends with a warm moist cloth.  Stimulates their digestive tract and gets them going


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## Goat Whisperer (Apr 17, 2014)

So sorry for the lost pup   Hope the rest can make it thru!


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 17, 2014)

I'm so sorry you lost your pup.  I hope the other one is OK.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Apr 17, 2014)

Can they have B12? That's what we gave our goat kid.


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## woodsie (Apr 17, 2014)

I did try some B12 earlier, not sure if it made a big difference but thanks for the reminder, I just went outside and put some more dissolvable B12 under their lip. They are still here, warm and in moving...I decided to put them out with mom because I just was not able to keep their temp even and its nice and warm and snuggly with mom, who is doing an excellent job with them. I guess we will keep praying and checking and let nature take its course.


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## GLENMAR (Apr 17, 2014)

Sounds like they are getting too cold. Is there a heat lamp on them? When I had my show dogs in the house we had a heat lamp in the room and kept them at 80-85 degrees. A human bottle with a human nipple should work fine.


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## GLENMAR (Apr 17, 2014)

You could also have a vet show you how to tube feed the weak ones. It's really easy, but really a pup that gets chilled will start to shut down. This may be what's happening.


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## woodsie (Apr 17, 2014)

I do have a heat lamp on now...and extra insulation in the kennel, I found a couple drafts as the wind picked up. THe two weak pups seem to be doing much better and they have full bellies and are searching and finding the teats! Yay! They are definitely smaller than the rest with massive tummies but they are miles ahead of where they were. Unfortunately mom has full winter coat and just can't do inside or too much heat. If I put too much heat on them she leaves them too much - she just can't handle the heat. Even with a heat lamp a couple feet away she is panting at dusk. I will keep an eye on them tonight (I can watch them through my bedroom window) and make sure they are all tucked in together. It is surprising cozy against mom and brothers and sisters...the weak pups were really warm without panting cuddled in, I can't say the same for my attempts in the house with warmed bean bags, towels and heat lamp...too hot, too cool. Mom definitely has the hand up on me.


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## GLENMAR (Apr 18, 2014)

Sounds good. Keep them warm and they will be ok. Goats milk is great for them if you need to feed to help mom out.


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## woodsie (Apr 18, 2014)

I lost the boy this morning ...tried to get him extra warmed but with no luck, he past within the hour. Mom seemed distraught and I had a cry and hug with her and then we have to move on. I think he was just one of the weak ones that unfortunately mother nature must weed out. So hard to say that but sometimes it seems that they just don't have the will to live - does that make sense?

My smaller girl is a trooper and still smaller but is fighting for a teat so I am hopeful she's going to pull through. The other ones are growing MASSIVE, some real bowsers emerging. Crazy how fast they can grow when they are gluttons!


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 18, 2014)

woodsie said:


> I lost the boy this morning ...tried to get him extra warmed but with no luck, he past within the hour. Mom seemed distraught and I had a cry and hug with her and then we have to move on. I think he was just one of the weak ones that unfortunately mother nature must weed out. So hard to say that but sometimes it seems that they just don't have the will to live - does that make sense?
> 
> My smaller girl is a trooper and still smaller but is fighting for a teat so I am hopeful she's going to pull through. The other ones are growing MASSIVE, some real bowsers emerging. Crazy how fast they can grow when they are gluttons!



So sorry.  You are right, it is unfortunate.  I hope the small girl pulls through.


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## elevan (Apr 18, 2014)

I am sorry


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## Goat Whisperer (Apr 18, 2014)

So sorry Woodsie.


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## bcnewe2 (Apr 18, 2014)

So Sorry you've lost 2. I think you've done your best and hopefully the rest are going to be fine.
Hugs and warm thoughts


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## woodsie (Apr 18, 2014)

I know, last time it we lost one the first night, no idea why, but no problems with the others. 

This time it has been a battle. We are battling harsh wind and wet and despite even more insulation than last time I was still losing heat to drafts above 4 feet. So I have moved them into a garage type building....she wasn't thrilled and I was afraid she was going to abandon them all but eventually she settled down and fed them so I am hoping it she is going to approve and will give the little one a chance at not getting chilled. My little is nursing again and it is substantially warmer with no drafts and mom isn't overheating so I think we may be doing better. Still checking on the little ever hour or so to make sure we don't lose any ground. 

But boy am I tired, night checks, bottle feeding, improving nest, moving nest, nursing my baby, baking bread, selling rabbits, and caring and feeding my 4 other kids, and trying to keep some sense of order in the house, plus the other farm chores....oh yay, its 3 and I need to think about dinner. sigh, I don't usually get wiped out but this is proving to be a lot on my plate, my mom picked a good two weeks to go on vacation ...I sure hope we found the solution and mom can just grow those pups!


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## Hens and Roos (Apr 18, 2014)

Sorry to hear about the pups,  and


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Apr 21, 2014)

I hope that everyone made it through the weekend safe and sound...that includes you, Woodsie!  I hope the pups are all well and that you got some rest.


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## woodsie (Apr 21, 2014)

Well, my little girl is holding on.  The other pups are growing crazy fast but this one is taking it slow, so I am cautiously hopeful she is going to make it. Some of those boys are double her size but she has a real fighting spirit so that is more than half the battle. I have a friend who is looking for a very child oriented, smaller pup for her one acre and handful of goats and chickens.... so if she pulls through I think she will probably end up there. 

Winnie, the rascal decided that some poly and a 4 foot wall was not going to stop her from making her patrols however. I came home to find her in the pasture and whining to get back into the pups and wondered who let her out?...turns out she popped some staples in the poly and wedged herself over the 4 foot wall in order to check on the fields....silly lady... that night she woke me up 4 times to get back to the pups after pulling the same stunt...seems there is no maternity leave for this one.  The next day my husband put up some 2x4s  horizontally in order to keep her in the room because that routine got old REAL fast. 

So not a lot of rest, especially with my boy's 3rd birthday on Easter Sunday as well this weekend...all worth it though for the little critters and people in your life. I figure I'll rest when I'm dead....for now there is too many exciting adventures to be had!


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## elevan (Apr 21, 2014)

Glad to hear the little girl is still holding on.  Winnie sounds like a real rascal!


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## Goat Whisperer (Apr 21, 2014)

x2!


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## EsquireCaucasians (Apr 23, 2014)

In case not already covered:  Rectal temp first week should be 97-98F not adult dog temperature, carefully monitor weak pups w/thermometer. Heat lamps and pads can dehydrate.  I warm pups with my body or microwave rice in socks, and stimulate elimination before feeding.  In my experience, even  some vets mistake puppy temperature and over cook.  Best of luck.


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## woodsie (Apr 23, 2014)

The losses continue...just an awful heartbreak. We lost the little miss, just was not gaining as fast as she needed to and finally got too weak and gave up. And then to make matters worse I found a nice big healthy boy whimpering and turned him and found a dark purple belly and perhaps a broken leg...must have had major internal bleeding, his right side was looking bloated and died a couple hours laters. I guess Winnie must have stepped on him by accident. I know these things can happen but it is so hard. I know it is better than having them barely pull through and passing on a sickly pup onto new owners so that gives me some consolation but it is just so hard to have such heavy losses. Sometimes you have winning streaks, sometimes losing streaks, I just never expected to have it happen to the pups on the second time when it was so easy the first. Now I have to make some difficult calls to the people that had pups reserved and tell them its not going to happen...and break some more hearts. UGHh

Then I go out today and I had a yearling Nubian doe that is aborting her kid. Sigh, tough day to be a farmer.


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## Goat Whisperer (Apr 23, 2014)

I'm so sorry Woodsie.


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