# Baby Goat Feeding/Weaning Strategy Cliff Notes?



## Cadillac Jill (May 23, 2011)

I apologize if I missed it, but is there a thread here where people outline their basic strategies for feeding baby goats (i.e. bottle vs. nursing, schedules, duration, quantities, separation, handling techniques)?

I have read a lot, and I'm very confused. We would like to stay in harmony with natural processes when it makes sense, but so many professionals (including the breeder from whom we purchased our goats) say that the babies will be wild if we don't go with 100% bottle feeding. They also say the weaning process is difficult and protracted if you don't bottle feed.

Other reasonable souls seem to employ a combination of bottle feeding and nursing.

They're dairy goats, so we do want milk for our own consumption. We spend time with them every day, and we like the fact that they're so friendly and affectionate. I wouldn't want to lose that trait in the babies.

We're right at a month away from kidding, and I'm starting to realize that I have a lot of general ideas, but no comprehensive game plan. Colostrum? Separating kids from moms? Milk replacers?  Ack! I'm lost!

If there's a thread that covers this, I'd really appreciate the link! If not--and I know this is a tall order--would some of you veterans mind sharing your strategies? I'm hoping to glean wisdom from "an abundance of counselors".

Thank you!


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## 20kidsonhill (May 23, 2011)

I find that my boer goats that are all dam raised, can tame, if you handle the babies a lot with in the first couple weeks, But bottle babies are always very very tame.  

As far as weaning, I am not so sure they are ever really ready to give up that milk, They seem to complain either way, weaning them from mom, or weaning them from a bottle. It would probably be easier to keep them with the adult does after weaning if they are bottle raised,  because they wont try to nurse on mom, so when it is weaning time from the bottle you wont have to try to find a seperate weaning area away from the does that are milking.   

A mom will let their babies start to nurse again even after being weaned for a month, That isn't a problem for me, because I don't milk the does, the does would dry-up, but for someone who is milking you would have to have a seperate place to put dam raised babies after weaning for quit some time, I would think atleast 2 or 3 months, if not more. 

Hope that helped a little. 

There are some great experts on here on bottle feeding. You will get lots of ideas and help.

Pretty much you are going to have to pool all the ideas and pick what would work for you, since there are different ways to go about it.


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## whetzelmomma (May 23, 2011)

Cadillac Jill said:
			
		

> I apologize if I missed it, but is there a thread here where people outline their basic strategies for feeding baby goats (i.e. bottle vs. nursing, schedules, duration, quantities, separation, handling techniques)?
> 
> I have read a lot, and I'm very confused. We would like to stay in harmony with natural processes when it makes sense, but so many professionals (including the breeder from whom we purchased our goats) say that the babies will be wild if we don't go with 100% bottle feeding. They also say the weaning process is difficult and protracted if you don't bottle feed.
> *This is 110% FALSE. I have goats from dam raised babies and they are LOVERS. The "tameness" of your goats is entirely up to you and how much time you spend with them on YOUR farm. As to the weaning, I haven't done this part yet, but the breeder I get mine from doesn't have issues. She sells her babies at 2 months old, and they eat like a grown up goat.*
> ...


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## Our7Wonders (May 23, 2011)

I started all my bucklings born this year on the dam and moved them onto the bottle one at a time as I was ready to sell them.  The last one didn't move onto the bottle until he was three weeks old and he took right to it.  All of them were very friendly right from the beginning - but we spend alot of time with the babies just because we enjoyed them so much.  

I had only one doeling born this year and she's friendly.  She has been soley dam raised.  Her dam is a bit stand offish - not mean just doesn't seek out attention the way my other doe does.  But the doeling isn't that way at all, she's a little shy but she can't help but come out to see us every time we're in the goat shed or run - she's curious and playful and seems to enjoy our company as much as we enjoy hers.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (May 23, 2011)

It is indeed not true that Dam raised babies are not friendly. Mine are dam raised and I don't spend lots of time with them, but they just LOVE us and love being with us. The two tricks I used is for while very young to breathe on them every time you got to them, sounds weird but it really does work! Then when they are older I sometimes take out raisins with me. They never know when I have them or when I don't so they always run up to be loved on and given a treat if I happen to have some with me.


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## Roll farms (May 23, 2011)

It does depend on the time spent w/ them.  With a small herd and some dedication, any kid can be made friendly if you start young.

I have too many to spend that kind of time on them individually.  
By feeding them 3x a day w/ a bottle (takes minutes per bottle, and I can feed 3 at a time) they're 'automatically' made friendly.

As for the when / how much / how often part, I've copied / pasted this from my site.  Probably more than you wanna know, but it's how we do it.

"We bottle raise most of our kids, for many reasons.  CAE prevention, to ensure they're friendly, and because I don't have to worry at 3 am if the kids are warm enough or being fed enough by a first time mom.

Some folks think it's 'cruel' to take babies at birth...
If a doe never 'meets' her kids, she won't cry for them nearly as much as she does when you wean them at 3 mos., and babies won't go off feed / stress out from leaving dams they never met / bonded to.

One of the things I hear most about bottle feeding is, "Isn't that a lot of work?" 

Really, it isn't.  It takes less than 5 minutes to give a baby their bottle, 3 times a day.  I'm in the barn that many times a day anyway.
Plus, I enjoy the time spent with the kids.  I love to watch them bounce and play, and to be their jungle gym.

We usually have plenty of goat milk to go around...
But when we don't, we use (and recommend) that you use Vitamin D (whole) milk.  
We've tried replacer in the past and had kids scour.
After switching to whole milk, the kids did fine and grew as well as they did on goat milk.
If you can find milk on sale, stock up and freeze it.  The kids won't mind if it seperates, just shake it up before you fill the bottles.

I usually send kids home with some goat milk, to help them transition over to whole milk with no sudden dietary changes...sudden changes for any goat, kid or adult, are a bad idea.
I like to switch them slowly, giving them half goat milk, half whole milk for a few bottles before changing them over completely to whole milk.

We use empty soda bottles and Caprine (gray) nipples.   We send kids home with the nipple they're used to.

By the time the kids leave here, between 5-10 days of age, they're usually drinking 8-16 oz of milk at each feeding.  We gradually increase their intake until they max out at 20 oz. per feeding.  
Some kids can take several weeks to reach that amount, some just a week or so.

I try to feed the kids every 6-8 hours.  Our typical schedule is 8am, 2pm, and 9pm.   
Feeding too often cause all sorts of health issues, like FKS (Floppy Kid Syndrome).  They need time to digest the milk between feedings.  
Also, do not feed milk to 'cold' kids.  If the kid has chilled, warm it up (at least 101 degrees) before offering milk.  A tablespoon of molasses is a good pick me up that will help warm them and give energy.

Despite what you might read elsewhere, it is NOT necessary to feed kids every 3 or 4 hours.  I've been bottle raising between 30 and 50 kids a year since 2003 and have never fed more often than 3x a day.

Weaning:
At 8 wks of age, they go to 2 bottles a day.
At 10 wks they are dropped to 1 bottle a day.
We wean at 12 weeks.
Make sure they're eating their pellets / hay well before weaning completely!  Usually taking a bottle away will increase the consumption of their 'big goat feed'.  
Keep fresh water and loose goat mineral available at all times!"


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## Goatmasta (May 23, 2011)

Roll is 100% correct.   I use to dam raise until I had too many to keep the babies friendly because I just couldn't possibly spend enough time with them all.  The answer to that problem is bottle feeding.  Since I have started bottle feeding I would probably not go back to dam raising.  The advantages for a production herd like I have comes down to $$$'s.  If I would dam raise I would lose a entire breeding every 2 years.   Since I have 40-60 babies per breeding it would be too costly.  
   If you choose to bottle raise, once again Roll is correct.  Milk replacer is bad.  vitamin D milk is good.  
   I have tried the combo, nursing and milking, the issues I had with this is that kids do not nurse evenly.  So you can end up with a lop sided udder often times with one side engorged...


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## whetzelmomma (May 24, 2011)

Things like too many, and young enough are relative terms... My breeder has about 25 goats at any one time. It's not as big as some goat herds, but it's bigger than my herd, (and since this forum is "backyard herds" I assume most of the people here have "smaller" herd sizes. Most of her goats were dam raised, and they are all friendly and manageable. The goats she sells leave the farm at 2 months, which is still "young" but I've also bought a "less friendly" goat from her that was 4 years old. Timid is probably a good word for her. With a little work from me, she's become a sweet goat. Not AS cuddly as my younger doe, but still loves her scratches, and hops onto the milking stanchion without trouble. They both will come when called. There are advantages and disadvantages to bottle feeding AND dam raising. It's up to you to decide which things matter to you. CAE isn't 100% preventable simply by bottle feeding. There are other ways for goats to contract the disease. Bottle babies can grow up to be pretty pushy grown up goats... all of these things are things you need to consider and decide for yourself which matter and are important to you and your situation.


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## Roll farms (May 24, 2011)

One thing I didn't answer was the OP's original colostrum question.  

If your does have been CAE tested negative, they can nurse from mom or you can milk the colostrum from mom and bottle feed it to them.  (I prefer to pull at birth / start out on a bottle, it's easier *for me* that way.)
If the dam(s) aren't tested and you're concerned, you can either heat-treat the colostrum or buy some from a CAE free herd.

It's not the only way to prevent CAE, and there are other ways to transmit it.  But it is a proven way to lessen the chances of contracting CAE.

I'm not going to stomp my foot and insist I'm right and that bottle raising is the best.  I merely explained the hows and whys of our way of doing things.  

I agreed that w/ time / attention that tame dam-raised kids can be done.  With a smaller herd, that's much easier.  

I don't believe 'too many' is relative when you're describing your own (my own) situation.  I could NOT tame 40 kids.  

Also, I'd much rather have a pushy goat than a wild one.  Again, that's just _my personal preference_...nobody else may share it.  I HATE chasing goats at hoof trimming / vaccination time.  Much easier with a large herd when they're right there waiting for you.

The OP asked for opinions / experience / schedules / etc. and I'm offering one of many here.  I like to hear different strategies / thought processes and then take what makes the most sense for me and create my own.

Cadillac Jill, whatever you decide, enjoy the little buggers...baby goats are the best.things.ever, regardless of how you raise them.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 24, 2011)

My theory is that how friendly the kid ends up at weaning is directly related to how friendly that dam is with people.  If the kid spends the imprint phase of socialization with a dam that runs to the other side of the paddock every time you want to visit then the kid is going to learn that people are dangerous/scary.  If the dam was a bottle baby herself (or dam raised and friendly) and she walks up to you for a treat and a scratch then the kid is going to learn people are safe.  I think a buyer that spends a lot of time and patience on the weanling could probably undo this to some degree, but I don't necessarily believe the goat will ever truly be imprinted.

I HATE having to chase our buck wild, dam raised doe whenever it's time to do something with her.  I did find that pulling her kids and milking her twice daily made a HUGE difference in how readily I can catch her.  She's good for milking.  But she's impossible to catch without first having her in a smaller area, milking or no.

I would think that if you have a few very friendly, easily approached and caught does then you could dam raise and still have friendly kids.  I'd be more amenable to our bottle raised does dam raising kids than our buck wild dam raised does.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 24, 2011)

My husband and I do not like a bottle raised doe in the herd, and most certainly not our herd sire.  We don't like how they are in your space all the time. If I do need to bottle raise I normallly sell them or if I can I will bottle raise the males, since we don't keep any of them.  I like the goats being a little wildier, but I am not trying to catch them every day and milk them.  I have always felt that this was a big difference between the thought process of dairy herd and mear herds.  Some of our dam raised kids become very gentle, let you pet them and walk right up to them, but some of them are very wild. 

A good example is last summer when my children were working with their 4H goats,  3 out the 4 were pretty cooperative, ONe of them was so friendly, he wouldn't stop chewing on my son's clothes  and wouldn't listen, the 4th one was so wild, very difficult to catch, then we would have to drag him from the pen to the yard, this continued every day for 2 months right up until the show in august.  Now our goat are born December/January, and we often don't start working with them until May, as far as handling them and haltering them. Weigh in is in June. 

When it came to the showmanship class at the fair, my son had to choose betwen the tame one that chewed on your clothes, but walked nicely, or the one that up to this point you had to drag around and acted terrified.At the last minute we choose the nervous one,  worked like a charm. he listened to everything my son said, walke perfectly, stood like a brick wall during set-up. He was just nervous enough that he acted like he was at attention, but he was used to being handled every day so he did just what he was asked. 

I realize this seems off the point of bottle feeding your kids in  a dairy herd. But I wanted to share the story to help understand a bottle raised kid would certainly have been very very tame, but our theory is we don't want them too tame. You can work with them over time, in my opinion, but they wont always be under foot.  

Hope this helped a little. 

Good luck on your decision.

If it was me and I was raising dairy, I would bottle feed, including the first milk, I would do my best not to let the babies bond with mom at all.  Just seperate them right away and be done with it. Pretty much what Roll is doing.


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## poorboys (May 24, 2011)

I'M WITH ROLL ON THIS, I BOTTLE FED EVERYONE BORN HERE, THEY ARE ALL DAIRY, A FEW BOERS THAT MY DH BROUGHT HOME, MY BIG GIRLS ARE ALL FRIENDLY AND WHEN I NEED TO MILK I CALL BY NAME AND THEY COME TO THE GATE THEY USUALLY BEAT ME TO THE STAND. ALL MY BABIES ARE FRIENDLY AND IF YOUR GONNA SELL KIDS BEFORE THEY ARE WEANED, IT'S BEST TO HAVE THEM ALREADY USE TO THE BOTTLE. LESS WORK FOR THE BUYER., I DON'T HAVE THE ROOM FOR ALL OF THEM TO BE WITH THEIR MOM'S AND HAVE A SEPARTE AREA FOR THE KIDS ONCED WEANED. PLUS YOU AVOID THE CAE PROBLEM, I HAVE ONE BOER BUCK WHO WAS 3 WEEKS OLD WHEN DH BROUGHT HIM HOME AND HE IS HARD TO CATCH, WON'T TAKE BUT ABOUT 3-4 OZ AT A TIME, BUT HE'S EATING GRASS ALL THE TIME, AND HAY. IT'S REALLY UP TO YOU ON HOW MUCH TIME YOU WANT TO PUT INTO IT, LIKE ME I'M HERE ALL DAY SO IT DOESNT BOTHER ME TO BOTTLE THEM, PLUS WITH THE ONE ON ONE CONTACT YOU CAN USUALLY CATCH PROBLEMS EARLIER.


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## whetzelmomma (May 24, 2011)

Not sure why there's yelling going on... but whatev... (all caps sentence after sentence are the on line version of yelling.)

Apparently I'm the only person with a Dam raised doeling that comes when she's called and doesn't have to be chased. She also happens to have been raised by a shy doe that isn't particularly people friendly. Didn't make a bit of difference in the doeling's personality toward people.

When I say herd size is relative, I mean that large to ME isn't large to someone like Roll. She's got 40 kids. That's huge. No arguing that. However, if she's selling to me, who has a small herd, even dam raised kids would become tame if I spend time with them. I know this to be true because I've experienced it personally. And as to the "relativity" of it all, I was merely saying that even to me, a herd of 10 is a large herd.

I understand why people bottle raise, and I don't disagree that it may be easier for a lot of people. The OP asked about tameness in one vs the other, and I'm here to tell the OP that dam or bottle doesn't make a difference if you have the time to spend with them. I'm assuming, that if you have the time to spend with a bottle baby, you'd have the time to be with an older dam raised kid. If you do, then your chances are good that you'll have a great, tame, easy to manage goat. 

I've spoken to a lot of people on line that have had issues with bottle raised kids not thriving. There are risks on both sides. That's all I'm trying to say. The OP sounded like they were trying to get some information. Seriously not trying to be argumentative here. Just speaking up in saying that dam raised does not mean they won't be friendly and tame.

ETA for the OP's information: I use my dam raised goats for milking.


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## helmstead (May 24, 2011)

whetzelmomma said:
			
		

> Not sure why there's yelling going on... but whatev... (all caps sentence after sentence are the on line version of yelling.)
> 
> Apparently I'm the only person with a Dam raised doeling that comes when she's called and doesn't have to be chased. She also happens to have been raised by a shy doe that isn't particularly people friendly. Didn't make a bit of difference in the doeling's personality toward people.
> 
> ...


Poorboys pretty much always types in caps...I'd say we're all used to it and know they're not yelling at anyone.

And, plenty of people have said dam-raised kids CAN be friendly, there's no need to get snippy about it.  Both sides have been well represented here.


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## whetzelmomma (May 24, 2011)

@helmstead
Thanks for letting me know they do that... I haven't seen them comment like that before that I can remember. 

Not sure where I got snippy, but thanks again...


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## poorboys (May 24, 2011)

NO, I WAS'NT BEING SNIPPY, I'M NOT LIKE THAT, ITS' JUST EASIER FOR ME TO TYPE IN CAPS, I HAVE A HARDER TIME TRYING TO HIT ALL THE BUTTONS.  I DO FIND IT EASIER WITH DAIRY IF YOUR GOING TO BE MILKING ALL OF THEM TO HAVE THEM VERY USE TO YOU, NOTHING AGAINST DAM RAISING, IF I HAD MORE ROOM I WOULD LET SOME OF THEM FEED THEIR OWN. SORRY IF YOU TOOK ME WRONG.


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## elevan (May 24, 2011)

I dam raise.  Don't like bottle raising personally (although I currently have a calf on the bottle   )

It's not that I think it's hard work bottle raising because it isn't.  I've just found that I prefer goats who have been dam raised.

All of my dam raised kids are friendly as can be.  I make a point to spend plenty of time with them in their first 2 weeks.  The first 72 hours are crucial to spend time with the kids when they're dam raised imo.

I do agree that if you choose to bottle feed then use whole vit D milk over replacer.

eta: IMO dam raised kids are easy to wean since they learn from their mama quite early to eat their grain, hay and browse...then around 8 weeks of age my dams are pushing the kids off the teat more and more frequently...self weaning around 10-12 weeks of age.


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## whetzelmomma (May 25, 2011)

Sorry I thought you were yelling! lol No harm no foul, right? Now that I know typing in caps is just easier for you, I won't mistake it for that again. 


			
				poorboys said:
			
		

> NO, I WAS'NT BEING SNIPPY, I'M NOT LIKE THAT, ITS' JUST EASIER FOR ME TO TYPE IN CAPS, I HAVE A HARDER TIME TRYING TO HIT ALL THE BUTTONS.  I DO FIND IT EASIER WITH DAIRY IF YOUR GOING TO BE MILKING ALL OF THEM TO HAVE THEM VERY USE TO YOU, NOTHING AGAINST DAM RAISING, IF I HAD MORE ROOM I WOULD LET SOME OF THEM FEED THEIR OWN. SORRY IF YOU TOOK ME WRONG.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 25, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> I dam raise.  Don't like bottle raising personally (although I currently have a calf on the bottle   )
> 
> 
> 
> eta: IMO dam raised kids are easy to wean since they learn from their mama quite early to eat their grain, hay and browse...then around 8 weeks of age my dams are pushing the kids off the teat more and more frequently...self weaning around 10-12 weeks of age.


I hadn't really thought about it before, but my dam raised kids are very self sufficient, We even weaned a few last week at 7 weeks, and they are all doing great,  They do learn to eat grain/hay very very quickly, learn how to be a goat.  But you do have to make sure you commit to spending time with them the first fewdays, if you for sure want them friendly and calm, when you handle them. They can calm down later on, even if you haven't, but it will be a bit more of a struggle.  

One difference I have really noticed with my dam raised, vs. a couple bottle raised that I have, is the bottle raised are very cooperative when drenching and worming, the dam raised aren't quit so excited about you putting things in their mouth.  One of my new herd sires(just turning 1yr) was bottle raised. And I can just slip the drench gun right in his mouth and he drinks anything in it. Even the sulfa-dimethoxine.  Not sure if this is normal behavior for a bottle raised adult, but it sure is easier. ON the down side, he became very aggresive towards us when he went into rut, and he had to learn is manners on the farm. We werent' the onse that raised him, we purchased him at around 6 months of age, and I think they were playing with him a lot and letting him follow them around on the farm.  He had no idea, when you went through a gate, that he was suppose to stay back.


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## helmstead (May 25, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> ON the down side, he became very aggresive towards us when he went into rut, and he had to learn is manners on the farm. We werent' the onse that raised him, we purchased him at around 6 months of age, and I think they were playing with him a lot and letting him follow them around on the farm.  He had no idea, when you went through a gate, that he was suppose to stay back.


Yep, bottle raised bucks can be pushy, even dangerous, if not properly raised and trained.

I _completely_ stop handling my bottle bucklings by the time they're 2 months old.  I feed them through a fence, and only handle them for the necessary things.  This does great wonders, usually, for breaking that attachment, so by the time they're hormonal, they're just "there" and not "all up in there"....but they're still friendly enough to be easier to catch and handle.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 25, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> It's not that I think it's hard work bottle raising because it isn't.


Are you CRAZY?!   It IS hard work.  We do it, but I won't pretend I enjoy the extra work. 

I agree with Kate, I am careful about setting boundaries VERY early on with all the kids, but particularly the bucks.  Just like with puppies, you have to think "am I going to be OK with him doing that when he's full grown?"  If the answer is no, then don't encourage or allow the behavior when they're babies.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 25, 2011)

When they are topping 200lbs and trying to hump your back or leg, they aren't that cute any more. I would seriously reconsider ever buying a bottle baby again. It would have to be one heck of a deal. to put up with that. 

We used him for breeding in December, and it seemed to help settle him down, seemed to help him understand who he was and what his job was, but our children aren't allowed anywhere near him, and I don't go in with out a club, just incase he forgot who he is and who I am. 

I noticed none of the dairy people on here commented about if it is easier to sell a dam raised dair goat vs. a bottle raised. I thought I had read somewhere that because of CAE, most people prefer their dairy goats to be bottle raised.  I remember reading about someone saying they tried to do dam raised one year and had a harder time selling the kids.  


As far as weaning, dam raised kids have to have a seperate place to go, or mom will keep letting them nurse. KNow since I don't milk, not really sure how long mom will keep letting them do this, but I have weaned at 8 weeks and had a doeling get out atleast 3 or 4 weeks later and mom was letting her try to nurse. I now if she had not been mostly dried up, she would have just starting nursing. again. 

as far as creep feeding(getting babies on their own grain/hay) We have an area built that babies can go into, but too small for mom's to get in.  I see them start to use this area and munch on a little grain at arouand 3  weeks of age, and by 6 weeks of age, they are munching on a lot of grain and hay in their area. The babies even at 3 or 4 days of age, seem to really like laying in this safe zone, they like to feel like they aren't under foot of the big does, corners, dog house, barrels turned into dog houses can all be safe zones for the babies.


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## Roll farms (May 25, 2011)

Usually it's not the method of raising that concerns dairy folks so much as the CAE status of the dam.  Most will still buy a really nice dam-raised kid *if* the dam has negative CAE test results.  
I have a friend who dam-raises all of hers b/c she has a CAE free herd (15 yrs running).  
HOWEVER...I won't buy anymore of her does, they're not easy to catch / handle.
I have another friend whos starts all of hers on the bottle, then switches to a lambar, and her kids are buck-wild as if dam-raised...but she's been known to have 100 or so kids a year.  She just totes the bucket out and hangs it, she doesn't actually spend time w/ them.

I hit 50+ several years ago and decided I wasn't ever going to do THAT again...

In our case, I won't buy a dairy doe that isn't bottle raised and prefer not to buy boers who haven't been.  Not just because of CAE prev. but I REALLY, REALLY hate to chase goats.  

With a passion.  As in, chasing a goat will ruin my whole day.

I don't tolerate 'in your face' behavior from anyone, buck or doe.  
I agree the hands-off approach Kate described (around 2 mos old) is the best way to keep them from being obnoxious.
Freeney jumped on my back today and got his face squirted w/ milk for his trouble.  He didn't dig it.

Bottle feeding (for me) isn't a pain or a lot of trouble...it's the pasteurizing / bottle filling / bottle washing / milking part that's a PITA.


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## aggieterpkatie (May 25, 2011)

I bottle feed my kids because my doe tests CAE+. I HATE it.  Hate it.  I much prefer to have mothers raise their own babies, but I obviously dont' want to risk spreading CAE so I do it.  My kids are SO annoying now.  They are all up in my business and it's so hard to get anything done with them around because they have to chew on my hair, my pants, my chin, my leg, my arm, well, you get the picture!  My doe was dam raised, and when I first bought her the girl told me she had me dam raised and "is a little standoffish but will come around with time."  Her definition of standoffish must be different than mine, because June is STILL all up in my business now, even though she was dam raised.  The good thing is she will come up for love and attention (or food!) but then go back to being a goat after a minute or two, unlike some bottle raised goats I've had.

I also really like how they learn to be goats from their dam...they learn to eat, learn to be in the herd, etc.  I understand people bottling dairy goats though, it does make it easier to get the milk, but I know dairy herds who let their mommas raise their babies and just wait until after weaning to milk.  And I'd never bottle my lambs unless it was absolutely necessary.  Same would go if I had meat goats.


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## PJisaMom (May 25, 2011)

I have two Alpine wethers that just turned a year that were bottle raised by idiots who didn't take the time to check CAE status and bottle fed them CAE milk (although they were so *proud* of their pastuerizer)... those two boys are a PAIN in the ARSE!  ALWAYS in your face, can't do anything without their help... and they tend to be a lot more aggressive (not sure if that's just being a boy or what) and frankly... I'm not all that fond of them at the moment.  That said... they take oral meds way more readily, are a *little* easier to trim feet, etc.    

I also have three ND does... all were dam raised, but are just the right kind of friendly.  There are *there*,  and come for pets and scratches, but aren't all up in your business.   

I'm a total newbie, but so far... I'm liking the damn-raised, intensive early socialization plan... and what we hope to be able to pull off when we have babies in late June!  

Good luck!  I am appreciating the conversation!


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## elevan (May 25, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> elevan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep! I AM crazy!  

It's extra work but it's not HARD work...not saying that bottle feeding 40+ kids doesn't wear you guys out  

I took in a boer cross (full grown) last fall who was a bottle baby.  After he kept knocking my boys to the ground and was getting very pushy with me I had enough and he found a new home.  If an unforseen circumstance were to happen and I was forced to bottle feed a kid then I would find them a new home as well.  For me I'm not keen on the fact that bottle babies don't seem to know that they are goats and to me "act more like dogs".  Just my 2 cents.


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## aggieterpkatie (May 25, 2011)

PJisaMom said:
			
		

> I have two Alpine wethers that just turned a year that were bottle raised by idiots who didn't take the time to check CAE status and bottle fed them CAE milk (although they were so *proud* of their pastuerizer


If all the milk was pasteurized then the CAE virus would have been killed.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 25, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> I took in a boer cross (full grown) last fall who was a bottle baby.  After he kept knocking my boys to the ground and was getting very pushy with me I had enough and he found a new home.  If an unforseen circumstance were to happen and I was forced to bottle feed a kid then I would find them a new home as well.  For me I'm not keen on the fact that bottle babies don't seem to know that they are goats and to me "act more like dogs".  Just my 2 cents.


200 plus lb dogs with very hard heads, horns and hooves.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 25, 2011)

A bottle baby doesn't HAVE to grow up to be an obnoxious, no boundaries, in your face goat.  Just like a puppy that jumps all over you doesn't HAVE to grow up to be a 90 lb menace.  Clear, consistent rules see to that.  Goats aren't completely stupid... they can learn to respect space.  Just like those wild, dam raised kids can learn people aren't alway dangerous, an imprinted goat can learn that people are not jungle gyms.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 25, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> A bottle baby doesn't HAVE to grow up to be an obnoxious, no boundaries, in your face goat.  Just like a puppy that jumps all over you doesn't HAVE to grow up to be a 90 lb menace.  Clear, consistent rules see to that.  Goats aren't completely stupid... they can learn to respect space.  Just like those wild, dam raised kids can learn people aren't alway dangerous, an imprinted goat can learn that people are not jungle gyms.


We know that, we are just saying it can get ugly, and my dogs would certainly not be allowed to act like that.  I think getting stuck with a poorly raised bottle sire/whether, really can be more than you bargain for. I think we are just gripping that we have to deal with the pain in the rear ends.  

I sure hope mine throws some nice kids, otherwise he is going to visit the stockyards, eventhough I paid plenty for him.


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## PJisaMom (May 25, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> PJisaMom said:
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That's the *point*... they pasteurized the milk... for *themselves*... NOT for the kids... 

eta:  It's just a long story, and I'm just a wee bit bitter...   (yanno, just in case you couldn't tell... LOL!)


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 25, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> n.smithurmond said:
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Won't argue with you there!  Particularly with the full sized bucks, folks should use common sense.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 25, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
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My husband and I have two lifetimes of livestock experience behind us and he is still a handful for us. I couldn't imagine someone with no experience handling him. and I am not joking about the club. Call it what you want, I call it survival of the fittest, this buck would laugh at a squirt of water in his face.  It has been years since I carried a hot stick on the job, but I was starting to price around and decide which one I was going to buy.  

He has been doing better, and doesn't even try to rush through the fence any more and stands about 4 feet from me when I am in the pen working, although that still requires never turning away from him. What I did for a while to work in the pen, was halter him and tie him to a post, so you could work with out constantly having to defend yourself.


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## whetzelmomma (May 25, 2011)

"This does great wonders, usually, for breaking that attachment, so by the time they're hormonal, they're just "there" and not "all up in there"

BWAHAHAHAHAAAAA Love it!!


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## Cadillac Jill (May 25, 2011)

I can't tell you how helpful the diversity of opinions in this thread has been to me! Having them presented all together in a point/counterpoint dialogue (complete with rationale) really helps me think through the issues as they would apply to my circumstance.

This is so much better than trying to piece together the wisdom of all the various websites and books I've read through.  They're all very convincing until you go to the next source that offers a complete contradiction. (As it is written, "The first to plead his case seems right until another comes and examines him.")

Certainly there's no single "right" way to raise kids, and the breadth of experience represented on this forum is a tremendous resource. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. I'll continue to follow along and take notes.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 25, 2011)

Cadillac Jill said:
			
		

> Certainly there's no single "right" way to raise kids, and the breadth of experience represented on this forum is a tremendous resource. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. I'll continue to follow along and take notes.


Have you thought of any new questions while reading this thread?


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