# Various Questions on Goats!



## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

Please Note: Due to a couple of the responses, I feel like I should add this disclaimer! I do NOT expect any one person to sit down and answer all of these questions. I also realize that there are different areas for these various topics, but I posted them all in one place because someone may know of a good book or link that covers these various questions, and also, someone may feel inclined to answer one or two which interest them to answer. Please understand that I am not asking anyone to sit down and write a book answering all my questions, and if the fact that I asked many questions on goats is offensive, I apologize, but my post title is, after all, "Various Questions on Goats". Feel free to answer one, some, or none! I appreciate all of the input thus far very much and am eagerly checking out the links that some of you have been so kind as to provide! Thanks everyone! 
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I'm sure if I read through enough posts, I can gather some answers to my questions, but I decided to just post a bunch of my questions in one place as well. I have a lot of questions.  I have been wanting goats for a long time now, and have read a little bit here and there. But now I have the opportunity to adopt some goats from a reputable sanctuary and it's got me more actively thinking about doing it sooner rather than "some day". I am not yet sure what breed I want, and I am open to suggestions. I can say that I only want them for pets, I am not interested in milking them or breeding them. I think I would rather have a small breed. So I'm thinking two small neutered males (wethers? I don't yet know much terminology, lol). I like them to be as friendly as possible, but also hardy, as I live in an area with cold, snowy winters.

So here's some of my many questions; any you can answer would be appreciated!

1. Housing: How elaborate must this be, or how simple can it be? I would only have two, the smaller breed the better. How big of a building must they have? Does a shed work? What other structures might work? Are there specific needs for this structure? I know with my chickens I needed to have proper ventilation, etc. Are there any specifics to know about housing?

2. Fencing/Enclosures: This is probably my biggest concern: I assume they MUST have a fence, correct? I wouldn't want a loose dog to attack them or anything. What kind of fence? I've heard that goats are good escape artists, which worries me, because I don't have a bazillion dollars for a megabucks fence. How high should it be and what types are good? Does it need to be buried in the ground? This is a big concern for me, because my yard is mostly ledge and NOT diggable. I do have woodsy areas that are more diggable, so I am trying to determine where on my property I would put them? If the fence isn't buried, will they just squeeze under it? I am concerned about just how expensive fencing may be, and how and where it will be installed. Also, what happens if one escapes? Are they impossible to catch or easy to catch? Do they run away down the road or just roam around the yard?

3. Where to put them? My above question leads to this one. I have a yard area and then woods around my yard. Which is better? I realize they will eat everything wherever they are, that's not a concern, but which is ideal? Closer to the house in open yard space? Or further from the house in the woods? I was thinking it would be nice to fence in an area that includes both yard space and the edge of the woods, but again, I am confused with how this works with fencing.

4. Winter: This is a big source of confusion for me. I know my chickens are fine here in the winter, because they have a proper coop. Does the same apply with goats? Do they cuddle in their house and stay fine? Are some breeds more cold hardy? My biggest winter concern is snow. I get a lot of snow here. Would I have to shovel their fenced area? Or just a small area? Or do they romp right through unshoveled snow? How does that all work?

5. Food/Hay: So what do they eat, how much do they eat, and how expensive is it to feed two small goats? How much hay do they go through? How much grain? What else do they eat?

6. Poop: How big of a deal is this? Do they require a lot of cleanup, like shoveling out a horse stall, lol, or is it more self maintaining like my chickens? My chickens have a large enough run and coop that I very rarely need to do poop cleanup. Same with goats? Or do they have big messy, smelly poop? Weird question maybe, but I'm just trying to prepare myself for all aspects of their care and I need to know how much maintenance there is. Can they be close to the house or are they too smelly?

7. What else do they need? I imagine things to climb in for play and interest, like tables and tires, etc.; at least that's what I see in photos.

8. How interactive are they? What can I do with them? Can you take them out of their pens and walk them on a leash or is that completely ridiculous? I used to know a guy who walked a goat in the city everywhere he went, so that's what made me think of this. I think it would be cute to walk them around, but don't know if that would work with all goats.

9. This goes back to housing & fencing, but how big of a fenced area do they need? I know you are going to give me square footage per goat, but if anyone could make it easy for me (I'm math dumb), like "20 feet long x 10 feet wide" (for example), I can visualize that much easier than trying to picture square footage.

10. Other Care: Do they need other care, horns, hooves, etc? I know nothing about that stuff. How often, who does it, how expensive, etc.

Thanks so much for any of these questions you can answer, and if I neglected to ask anything, feel free to add it.


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## freemotion (Sep 3, 2011)

www.fiascofarm.com should answer all those questions and more....and there are some great threads here on byh on each of your questions.....recent ones, too. 

I'm usually quick to answer newbie questions, but girl, ten?    Even I am overwhelmed!   Do a quick search and then narrow down your questions that remain, please!

There are recent and extensive threads on:

1.  Housing

2.  Fencing

3.  Pasture/browse

4.  a bit of stuff on winter care

5.  TONS of opinions on feeding!

6.  bedding/cleaning options, deep litter vs straw vs shavings etc

7.  Great toy/gym threads with awesome pics!

8.  training to leash walk

9.  area needed threads are included in housing and pasture

10.  Hoof trimming, disbudding, dealing with scurs, horns vs no horns, vaccinations, WORMING!!!!  Research worming!!!!

Ok, I'm pooped now.....  hee-hee!  Seriously, do a bit of reading, then narrow down your questions to relate to your specific situation.  Feel free to resurrect old threads with your specific needs.  Goats are wonderful and so much fun, but it can be a bit overwhelming at first as they do tend to be delicate flowers.


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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

I certainly didn't expect any one person to answer ALL the questions! I was just thinking if random people could each pick a question to answer, I might eventually get them all answered. If ten people each answered one question, I'd have them answered in ten posts. :/ In any case, thanks for the link, I will check it out now.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 3, 2011)

LauraJean said:
			
		

> I certainly didn't expect any one person to answer ALL the questions! I was just thinking if random people could each pick a question to answer, I might eventually get them all answered. If ten people each answered one question, I'd have them answered in ten posts. :/ In any case, thanks for the link, I will check it out now.


As someone who is knew here, I have learned LOTS about goats.  IMHO I think Freemotion's excellent post will help you get 10 people to delve in deeper to your ten questions if you just have a little more background.  Freemotion is correct.  They are VERY complex and FRAGILE.  And am looking forward to one day, taking all this info doing exactly what Freemotion stated, and being "hands on".  They do make me 

Good Luck researching this amazing creature.  In my research, I have found a very amusing, very VOCAL creature who can give you companionship and sustenance.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Sep 3, 2011)

LauraJean said:
			
		

> If ten people each answered one question, I'd have them answered in ten posts. :/ In any case, thanks for the link, I will check it out now.


unlike chickens where basic shelter + feed/water = success.... goats can be a little more complicated and many folks have different ideas about what works. so its best if you do your research and figure out what is gonna work out best for you. 

but you are right, fencing is superduper important...and if you ask 14 people what is best, you'll actually get 15 answers! ha! 

as for references... another great reference to check out is one of the Storey's Guides for goats - i think they have books for meat and dairy goats and either will give you a good idea if you just want friends. 

and Hobby Farms magazine usually has good overview articles to help you get a handle on what you're getting into. 
http://www.hobbyfarms.com/farm-breeds/others_goats_all_landing.aspx

and you can always contact local breeders or 4H groups to find out what breeds will do well in your area.

good luck!


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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

ohiofarmgirl said:
			
		

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Like I said, I already know I just want them as pets. I don't eat meat or drink milk and I live alone. I just want them as companion animals. Incidentally, I never found food/water + shelter = success with chickens, lol. I read extensively and discussed on boards in depth about them and asked many questions such as I am now on goats. But on the chicken board I actually got specific answers.

I am surprised at how different this board seems to be than BYC. If I ask chicken questions there, people actually answer them. No one says "go do chicken research"; that's what I am trying to do (in part) by asking goat questions to goat owners. I don't mean that in any sort of disrespectful way, I am just surprised that no one seems willing to answer even one specific question.

Okay, I'll just go buy books and check out other websites. Thanks anyway.

PS: Thanks for that link also, I'll go check that out now.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 3, 2011)

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Shame you feel this way.    I guess I'm the type of person who wants to actually learn something than be told what to do.  Looking for answers is actually a way of learning IMHO.  Different ways can help you lead to your way of doing it.   And I think a lot of others on here believe that to.    Not putting BYC down for their "hears the answer" type board, very informative and friendly, but maybe this is a different way of looking at getting information. 

Just my opinion.  Wishing you luck on your venture in goats. 

Edited to add:

Here is some information that Rolls Farms put on for anyone to read.   I think it covers one of your questions.  


*Raising kids isnt an exact science, but here are some general rules, tips, and info that can help.

    Normal goat temperature is 101.5-102.5 degrees.

    If you want the kid disbudded (horns removed), it should be done before it is 2 wks old.  Usually somewhere between 3-7 days of age.  A local breeder can usually be found to do it for you, or a vet with disbudding experience.  Disbudding after 2 wks of age (or a certain amount of horn growth) may not work.  If they start to grow horns after disbudding, reburning is possible but doesnt always work.  Boys are more difficult than girls and the older the kid was when it was done originally makes a difference.

    Male goats (bucklings) that wont be used for breeding should be wethered.  Wethers make wonderful pets.  Bucks stink and have some nasty habits, even the most adorable buck kids will turn into big smelly monsters at breeding time.  This is done several ways, but banding is usually the easiest and least expensive.  It should never be done before 8 wks of age to give the urethra time to grow.  That, and the proper diet, will help prevent Urinary Calculi in wethers.  A vet can surgically castrate them for you, or use a Burdizzo to crush the blood vessels that supply the testicles, but isnt always 100% effective.

    Kids should be vaccinated with CD-T vaccine to prevent clostridium perfringins type C and D and clostridium tetani.  The 1st shot should be given between 1-3 wks of age, with a follow up booster shot 3 wks later.  Then boost annually.  There are other vaccines available and you can research what is needed in your area, but CD-T is very important, to protect against enterotoxemia and tetanus.
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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

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Thanks, I appreciate your input. I wasn't trying to imply that I simply want to "be told" how to do something, but gathering opinions from other goat owners is a valuable PART of my research. I certainly did not run out and get chickens after BYCers answered my questions, lol, I still bought books, checked other websites, and did an extensive amount of research. In fact, I researched them for several YEARS before taking the plunge, as I take the responsibility of animals very seriously. But to me, gathering OPINIONS is an important factor in my research. If someone posts, "just tie your goat to a tree" here, of course I would not go do that. But on BYC, seeing people's opinions of what they do, and then seeing the interaction of how that compares with what someone else does, is all very interactive and helpful for me, which fills in many gaps that pages of a book do not cover. I simply enjoy interacting with actual owners of goats, chickens, etc. That is all I meant with my comparison to BYC. They just seem a bit more willing to interact and offer up things that they do that work for them to give me food for thought. I meant no offense, and I certainly don't mean that I simply want to be told what to do and then run out and get goats based on that, lol.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 3, 2011)

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I think your new observation is something those on the forum should read.  I got your message.  Thank you for the time you took to explain.   It's always good for new eyes to see what's here to help make it better.   And opinions ARE important in research.  Thanks for pointing that out.


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## elevan (Sep 3, 2011)

Everyone farms their goats differently even if they are only pets...so you're not going to get any 1 right answer...you still need to research and make some decisions for yourself.
I'll try to help here:

1.  Housing - You said you want small breeds...I recommend Pygmy - you can house 2 pygmies in a large igloo dog house or a calf hutch.

2.  Fencing - You need to know what predators are in your area.  4' fence is minimum...but if you live in FL you'll need 10' with electric topline...

3.  Pasture/browse - Goats eat browse...woody shrubs, lots of weeds, trees, wild rose...all make a good goat pasture.

4.  a bit of stuff on winter care - draft free environment

5.  TONS of opinions on feeding! - see the link in my signature and you'll get an idea of just how many opinions there are on this

6.  bedding/cleaning options, deep litter vs straw vs shavings etc - I use deep litter...it can be a bit of a pain though

7.  Great toy/gym threads with awesome pics! - Goats get bored and need things to entertain themselves

8.  training to leash walk - certainly can be accomplished and will make your goat easier to handle

9.  area needed threads are included in housing and pasture - the smaller the area you give the more you're gonna need to supplement

10.  Hoof trimming, disbudding, dealing with scurs, horns vs no horns, vaccinations, WORMING!!!!  Research worming!!!! - You tube has good videos for hoof trimming.  http://goat-info.blogspot.com/ has good info on disbudding and scurs, horns vs no horns is a personal choice and you need to be aware of both sides before making a decision, vaccinations - imo you need to do CDT at the least, worming is an important topic...and there are definitely tons of threads on here about it.


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## Javamama (Sep 3, 2011)

It's just that there's no one right way to anything with goats  
so I'll take a stab at it
1. housing - must be sturdy. Can be anything fro a large doghouse to a barn. Depends on the size of the goats. They will climb on it, rub on it, chew on it. They need at least a 3 sided shelter to get out of wind and rain. I have my 3 minimanchas in a 6x12  3 sided shelter that we can add a door to in the winter if needed.

2. Fencing - you will need a good fence. I use 4 foot tall woven wire goat fencing, some people use cattle panels, some people use electric. You don't want them running loose because they get into everything, and you want them protected from predators. Give them as much room as you can. Mine are in a 40x 20 -ish pen most of the time but we are adding more pasture fencing to let them into.

3. From the description of your property, it sounds like yard plus some wooded area would be nice for them. The wooded area would provide shade and browse for them to munch on, yet you could keep them close. 

4. Winter care - just give them a draft free place to be. Mine do great in the cold weather and I did shovel out a nice area for them to stretch their legs as they did not care to go out in the snow. So if you get alot of snow, a bigger shelter/barn might be nice

5. They need good hay, I feed alfalfa to my does. I only feed grain to those in milk. I do not have any males and I believe their needs are slightly different.

6. Poop- I have mine about 20 feet from the house and no odor. Poop is everywhere. I was shocked at how much they poop. But it's small berries, doesn't really smell to me and it just gets ground up into the bedding and ground. Instant fertilizer IMO.

7. structures to play on are always a plus.

8. Mine take me for regular walks  They do well on the leash. Mine are total lovebugs, and love a good scratch. They are very food motivated. All goats have different personalities though. I have one that would come from an acre away if she thought I had a cup of grain and the other would give me the finger and come when she wants.


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## Goatherd (Sep 3, 2011)

I don't know if this is something you would be interested in, but this shed is in my pasture for my goat's "daytime" shelter.  It houses 3 adults and one kid at the moment and they DO use it when it rains or want respite from the others.
They go into a barn at night for their safety as well as my peace of mind as I do not have a livestock guardian for them at this time.

Goats do need some kind of shelter and you can make it as simple or elaborate as you see fit.  If you are not handy or want an "instant" shelter, a shed such as this may work for you.
It is made of a plastic resin and to date, my goats have done no damage to it whatsoever.  They are not interested in chewing, ramming or generally destroying it.

Others will may tell you otherwise, but this works for me.

If you are going to only have a couple of goats for pets, this would more than suffice for a full-time, permanent shelter.

Good luck with your endeavors.


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## Javamama (Sep 3, 2011)

Thanks goatherd! I was wondering how one of those would work - they do seem pretty heavy duty. Looks nice.


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## Goatherd (Sep 3, 2011)

This shed in particular is made by Rubbermaid.

Forgot to  say...this shed, as well as any other plastic shed variety needs an absolutely level surface to be erected on.  The assembly is not as forgiving as wood would be, hence the pressure-treated platform.


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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Everyone farms their goats differently even if they are only pets...so you're not going to get any 1 right answer...you still need to research and make some decisions for yourself.
> I'll try to help here:
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*Thank you for taking the time to answer all those questions! It gives me some great starting points to look into more!*


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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

Goatherd said:
			
		

> This shed in particular is made by Rubbermaid.
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You beat me to it, I was just going to ask about the platform. Yes, it would only be 2 small breeds, that's it. I have no interest in a bunch of them, and would prefer small over large. But let me ask you, do you think something like that would still be adequate in snowy cold climates? I'm in upper New England and we get very cold temps and lots of snow. I know you said larger would be better in regard to the snow, so they could have some inside moving space, but temp-wise it would still be okay? Thank you SO MUCH for posting those pics! Very much appreciated.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Sep 3, 2011)

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Just have to say, tisk tisk.

Please understand where Freemotion is coming from- tackling your initial post and explaining the basics of all aspects of goat care in one thread is a time commitment indeed.  When you ask such a broad question the only answers anyone will have time to give are the most basic and probably least useful.  If it's specific answers you're wanting, it's specific questions you'll want to ask.  Reading threads devoted to those individual topics will help you narrow down your broad, generalized questions that people can endeavor to answer in less than an entire afternoon.  If it were simple enough to sum up in a few posts there wouldn't be such a large number of threads devoted to a single topic, such as "what do I feed my goats?"


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## elevan (Sep 3, 2011)

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I responded back to a few things in _italics_.  Also of note is having a few medical supplies on hand...here's a link to what I keep on my farm .

Also if you're interested in a good pet goat book of information specifically tailored to dwarf breeds check out this one .

Some other goat links can be found on my website .


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## Goatherd (Sep 3, 2011)

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Keep in mind that most barns are not heated.  I believe that wet or damp, snowy and extremely windy conditions would be more of a health hazard to goats rather than temperature.  A good bedding of straw, and a dry environment would suffice even the most demanding goat.

This particular shed, while not their night sleeping quarters, is double walled and, so far, wet proof.  I'm sure it would serve them well even in the cold, New England winters.  I'm in Pennsylvania and our winters are nothing to write home about...very cold and often times extremely bitter.


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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

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"tisk tisk" yourself. This has already been clarified and cleared up. I already clarified that I did not expect any one person to sit down and answer all my questions. Just posted my various questions, and if someone feels like taking a stab at one or two of them, they can. Or if someone thought of a good link that addresses those various things, they could post it, as they have. The time in explaining 'how I might go about doing this' instead of 'how I chose to' could have been used to answer to one question instead. I did not know that posting multiple questions in one post was a tisk-tiskable offense. I meant it innocently enough and figured if one particular question stands out to someone who knows about that area, they can answer it if they choose. Last I checked it's an option to reply, it's not like I'm making demands here. I think I was very respectful in my reply that you quoted, so I do not accept your tisk tisk.  So can we please move on now?


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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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Thank you SO much for all the time you've taken to help, I really appreciate it. Looking forward to checking out these links!

PS: I agree about the size. When I built my coop, I wanted to be able to stand up in it as well, so much easier that way!

Edited to add: You mentioned coyotes. I can definitely hear them in the distance at night, so I know they are "around", although I have never seen one come close. Do you happen to know how high a fence should be to be coyote resistant? I hate to trouble you anymore, but if you happen to know the answer to this, great. If not, I'll find it somewhere I'm sure. Thanks again!


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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

Goatherd said:
			
		

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I understand. It turned out to be the same way with chickens. I was all worried about proper insulation, etc., but really they just needed it to be dry and draft free, with good dry bedding. Thank you again.


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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

Could anyone tell me where I would find a section on goat housing and fencing? Someone mentioned there being sections for each of my questions, but I don't actually see a topic on that. Where should I be looking? Thanks!


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## elevan (Sep 3, 2011)

LauraJean said:
			
		

> Could anyone tell me where I would find a section on goat housing and fencing? Someone mentioned there being sections for each of my questions, but I don't actually see a topic on that. Where should I be looking? Thanks!


http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/search.php?search_id=2065100079

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=18


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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

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Oh, I was looking in the Goat section.  Thank you!


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## elevan (Sep 3, 2011)

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The first link was a search of the goat - everything section


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## LauraJean (Sep 3, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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Actually, the first link showed nothing, except: "Your search returned no hits, or was too general. Please try your search again." So it was the second link I was referring to.  But I see what you were doing, so I'll try searching terms that way too.


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