# *Updated* Going to use Lute not Valbazen



## ksj0225 (Oct 29, 2011)

Buck got in with 2 of my 8 month old does last night/this morning.  I don't have access to lute.  Some say the regular dosage to deworm 2 weeks apart will be enough any experience?

Thanks
Kim


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## SheepGirl (Oct 29, 2011)

Valbalzen, to my knowledge, causes birth defects, not abortions.


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## elevan (Oct 29, 2011)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> Valbalzen, to my knowledge, causes birth defects, not abortions.


The result could be either.  Not good odds imo.

What breed are your does and how much do they weigh?  I ask because it may be safer to allow them to carry.

In addition there is not a guarantee that they were bred.  You might want to wait 3 weeks and do a blood test and find out before taking rash measures.


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## ksj0225 (Oct 29, 2011)

Boer about 75 lbs....  I probably could find a vet if I need to I have an emergency vet that will do c-sections and the like.  Never needed prescriptions yet.  Only been doing this a year.


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## Roll farms (Oct 29, 2011)

I wouldn't use Valbazen on purpose 'hoping' to cause an abortion.

What if all that happened was some odd birth defects...?  They go through the pain of labor and you may have to euthanize kids.

8 mos means they'll kid at 13 mos.  I've kidded does at 13 mos. before...if they're in good health / of decent size for their age, and you can't get lut - and the only option is Valbazen - I'd go w/ letting them kid.


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## elevan (Oct 29, 2011)

I think I've seen some of the members that have boers post that they can breed them under a year if they're at 80#.  75# is pretty darn close  :/  Hopefully some of those members post for you...and Roll Farms did...

If it were me and I didn't have access to Lute then I would probably wait 3 weeks and do a blood test to determine if they were even bred.  You can do the test yourself and send it to BioTracking.

Would that emergency vet you have give you a single dose of Lute?  All you need is a syringe with 2ml in it...then give it when she's at least 3 weeks post breeding.  That's how I get it when I need it...single dose at the vet - costs me about $8, but it's worth it.


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## ksj0225 (Oct 29, 2011)

Yeah, no worries, I don't have Valbazen on hand either.  I will probably put in a call to the normal hours call line for the vet's office that does the emergency vet's line and see if I can get a couple dosages of lute on Monday or Tuesday.  Seems much easier and safer.  One of those does 'could' carry the other I'd rather not due to the line breeding.  I really want to wait till they are older and bigger to carry.  Thanks ya'll I always like to double check what I hear!


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## Queen Mum (Oct 29, 2011)

Eight months, really  isn't too young to breed.  And 75 pounds is an OK weight.  In line breeding is the real issue here.  How closely related are the does to the buck?  Brother/sister?  Father/daughter?   That would be an issue.   Grandfather/granddaughter?  Uncle/niece? Not really a big deal.     It's your call.


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## ksj0225 (Oct 30, 2011)

Half brother and sister.  They have the same dad, different mom.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Oct 30, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I wouldn't use Valbazen on purpose 'hoping' to cause an abortion.
> 
> What if all that happened was some odd birth defects...?  They go through the pain of labor and you may have to euthanize kids.
> 
> 8 mos means they'll kid at 13 mos.  I've kidded does at 13 mos. before...if they're in good health / of decent size for their age, and you can't get lut - and the only option is Valbazen - I'd go w/ letting them kid.


x2

Valbazen is not intended for that purpose.  Find yourself some lute or let them kid out.


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## MrsDieselEngineer (Oct 30, 2011)

I'd go ahead and let them carry the kids, just keep an eye on their condition and adjust accordingly


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 30, 2011)

Having just had an experience with a doe that was bred at 8 mos old... If you decide to let it go.  NO GRAIN!!.


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## DonnaBelle (Oct 30, 2011)

Humm.  Why no grain?

DonnaBelle


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## elevan (Oct 30, 2011)

It's because you want to do all that you can to keep the kid(s) from being too big.


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 30, 2011)

I would take it easy on the grain during the middle trimester, At the beginning is okay, and the last month she will need the extra energy from some grain.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 31, 2011)

If you go with lutalyse (which I'd strongly recommended, if you want to abort), the dose is 2ml injected _in the muscle_..  Has to be IM -- it's one of very few injections in a goat that absolutely positively has to be given in the muscle.  You have to wait a little while after they were bred to give it, though..  Some folks say 10 days, some say two weeks, some say a month..  What you're waiting for is the egg to attach to the lining of the uterus and for the corpus luteum to begin producing progesterone.  Lutalyse will basically cause the ovary to produce another egg (or eggs), which will shut down progesterone production from the original corpus luteum, which will cause the pregnancy to terminate.

If, however, you give it right away, the original fertilized egg may not yet be attached to the uterus, and when it does, the new egg's corpus luteum may interpret that as a really quick success and begin producing progesterone, which would keep the original pregnancy going..  For that reason, it's better to give it *a bit* later, rather than too early..

I prefer to lute at about 3wks (whicih would be the goat's next natural cycle) to a month or so after an accidental breeding..  At that point, the product(s) of conception will not be developed to where it would really even be recognizeable to the eye..  All you'd likely see is a doe in heat with some blood and mucous around her vulva..  

It sucks to have to do it, but it happens.


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## ksj0225 (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks CMJ, I have a call into the vet, waiting for a call back.


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## elevan (Oct 31, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> If you go with lutalyse (which I'd strongly recommended, if you want to abort), the dose is 2ml injected _in the muscle_..  Has to be IM -- it's one of very few injections in a goat that absolutely positively has to be given in the muscle.  You have to wait a little while after they were bred to give it, though..  Some folks say 10 days, some say two weeks, some say a month..  What you're waiting for is the egg to attach to the lining of the uterus and for the corpus luteum to begin producing progesterone.  Lutalyse will basically cause the ovary to produce another egg (or eggs), which will shut down progesterone production from the original corpus luteum, which will cause the pregnancy to terminate.
> 
> If, however, you give it right away, the original fertilized egg may not yet be attached to the uterus, and when it does, the new egg's corpus luteum may interpret that as a really quick success and begin producing progesterone, which would keep the original pregnancy going..  For that reason, it's better to give it *a bit* later, rather than too early..
> 
> ...




My vet has me use it at 3 weeks post breeding and again at 6 weeks post breeding...so the doe(ling) gets 2 doses to abort here.  Yep, 2ml IM.

Oh and as another member here learned - do not accidentally stick yourself - it will cause serious hormone fluctuations - think severe PMS in women...don't know how a guy would react


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## cmjust0 (Oct 31, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> My vet has me use it at 3 weeks post breeding and again at 6 weeks post breeding...so the doe(ling) gets 2 doses to abort here.  Yep, 2ml IM.


Not a bad idea, just in case the first one didn't work.  Though at 3wks gestation, it would most likely be somewhat evident that something adverse had happened to the pregnancy..  Bloody tail, etc..  



> Oh and as another member here learned - do not accidentally stick yourself - it will cause serious hormone fluctuations - think severe PMS in women...don't know how a guy would react


I think we go          then back to our usual :/.


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## ksj0225 (Oct 31, 2011)

Got a call back from the vet that I had already talked to about being my emergency vet.  My husband is picking some Lute up on Wednesday for both girls... so a good ending!!!

Especially being they are in freaking full heat right now...


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## elevan (Oct 31, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> elevan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yep, that's probably about right


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