# Awful Docks



## aggieterpkatie (Aug 27, 2010)

I took a few pictures at the county fair of some of the worst docks I've ever seen before.  I'm not sure why anyone thinks this is a good practice or looks good.  You can clearly see the one is almost prolapsing.  We as an industry need to put a stop to this!  This gives the whole industry a black eye.  If more people spoke out, maybe we could get the "standard" changed.  Please don't buy lambs with ultra short docks, and please speapk out when you see something like this.


----------



## ksalvagno (Aug 27, 2010)

Wow, that is horrible! Don't they need some sort of protection from the flies?


----------



## Beekissed (Aug 27, 2010)

At some fairs, these types of docks are immediately disqualified.  I've read that short docking can cause damage to the sacral plexus nerves and contributes to prolapse and lambing difficulties.  

Why in the world would anyone need it that short?


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Aug 27, 2010)

Unfortunately, the judges "we" are using are not talented enough to look at a lamb with a tail and be able to judge them.    IMO, any judge who can't look past a 1" or 2" tail to see the lamb should not be judging.  These are the lambs that place, so people buy them. 

These lambs in the picture above look like they've been re-docked, and that's probably why they're still  scabby.  

Unfortunately, the rule in MD is that unless the lamb is actually prolapsing, they won't be disqualified.    There is a "voluntary" tail docking "rule" but people don't listen.


----------



## Beekissed (Aug 27, 2010)

I guess they feel that, being market lambs, they are headed for slaughter anyway.  

I think its a crying shame to teach kids to mutilate a good animal so you can win.  Win at any costs.  I am no bleeding heart animal lover kind of person but I generally like my animals in their natural state if possible.  

God didn't really make any accidents and lambs tails are no exception.  I would say, if they tend to get soiled and gather flies that this may be due to grain rations that they really didn't feed in the past.  Ruminants are designed for grass...its only man who feels that they need that animal to~ fatten sooner, grow quicker, make more lambs~ that introduced more grains into their diets.  

If I had woollies and the tails seemed to be a problem, I would just shear that area more than once a year.  How horrible to not have a way to swat at flies when you need to or cover your butt in the cold weather.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Aug 27, 2010)

I agree that this is mutilation, and I don't have a problem with regular docking.  

When sheep naturally shed their wool, they didn't need docking.  Now that man has bred them to retain their wool (save hair breeds), it definitely can cause issues with hygiene having long tails.  When you have many sheep, it's not practical to shear more time per year than absolutely necessary.  

Yes, it's true that these are mostly terminal sheep, but I hate that they're teaching this is the "right" way to do it.  I wonder how many of these club lamb breeders dock their ewes this way?


And I'm not sure how much a sheep's tail helps with swatting flies.  Maybe if those flies are directly near the rump, but sheep tails aren't nearly as handy as a horse's tail.


----------



## Beekissed (Aug 27, 2010)

No...probably not, but my girls use theirs constantly to swish away flies.  The only place flies really bother them is at their tail end and their noses, so I guess their tails are just like they ought to be for sheep and their ears are just floppy enough to flap away flies at the nose.


----------



## goodhors (Aug 27, 2010)

YUCK, sure glad we don't see hardly any of this on sheep around us anymore!  Gives the round "apple-but" profile. Yeah for a bit the prolapsing was not uncommon with docking like that.  No rule against prolapsed sheep locally, the kids just pushed it back in and showing.  Part of working with that lamb, keeping lamb looking good.  Judges did place them then, but not so much now.

None of our lambs looked like the photos.  And by that I mean all the lambs at the Fair and our personal lambs.  Docked more like the lamb in the photo about showing, short and neat.  Gives a nice profile look.

I think it is a phase, styles change every few years and Judges have to catch up or are setting new styles by choosing different trims.  You find older judges still choosing old styles of body and trims.  Younger guys are going for the "modern" look in choices.  Different body styles come and go.  Long necks are quite popular, but can be overdone.  One lamb at a show looked more like a Llama, had a REALLY long neck when stretched out.  Bizarre appearance, and didn't place well in Individual class.


----------



## Beekissed (Aug 27, 2010)

Now...don't these tails look more comfortable and healthy?


----------



## big brown horse (Aug 27, 2010)

Look at those cute buns!!





Those pics made my tummy turn.  Imagine how children feel looking at that. :/  I know my 13yo daughter would be sad to see that.  And we are both "country" girls.

My kat has a nice tail and I also opted to leave my Icelandic cross' tail natural too.

(My border cheviot came docked, but it is nicely done.)

Any lambs my girls have will have natural tails.


----------



## Beekissed (Sep 3, 2010)

Aggie, I got to go to the county fair yesterday and noticed just what you noticed....the trend is extreme docks.  So horrible to look upon, though none were as bad as the ones you picture here.  

I noticed a few that looked like they have been redocked...what would be the purpose for that, you think?  

I also noticed that the market sheep were, as a whole, more lean this year.  Didn't have that overstuffed pillow look to them.  

Personally?  I didn't see one sheep that could hold a candle to mine for pure loveliness...but then, I could be a little biased!   

I wish the local fairs would be more broad minded in their sheep shows and have classes for other breeds than just the usual woolly breeds.  Some variety and info on other breeds would make the fair more interesting by far. 

 I'd like to see a heritage breed class and a hair sheep class so that these sheep could participate and be judged on their own merits and not wool breed standards.  

I also noticed this year had more meat goats than ever...almost as many goat pens as lambs!  Those Boer goats are pretty darn sweet for goats...they loved being petted.  I can see the appeal for younger children getting to work with smaller, more docile animals than sheep.


----------



## goodhors (Sep 3, 2010)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> I wish the local fairs would be more broad minded in their sheep shows and have classes for other breeds than just the usual woolly breeds.  Some variety and info on other breeds would make the fair more interesting by far.
> 
> I'd like to see a heritage breed class and a hair sheep class so that these sheep could participate and be judged on their own merits and not wool breed standards.


Attend some Fair Board meetings, put forth proposals for changes.

Fairs want to attract visitors, and depending on stalling available, may be willing to add classes for rare, Heritage, breeds of animals.  However the classes MUST get participants to come fill them.  Most Fairs take out classes that never have any entries or only one or two.

You would need to get with other sheep folks, get them to agree to attend.  Unfortunately, this would mean sheep would need scapies tags, and time commitment from owners to attend the Fair.  Having just finished our Fair, time to go to the Fair, show in classes, get up to go and feed, clean, groom their animals to show, is big enterprise!  Used to be that class winners got premiums, helped pay for going.  Bragging rights, "we won Grand or Reserve at *** Fair".  We don't get premiums any more, though you do win ribbons.  Other Michigan Fairs give small premiums if they can.

Fairs can be changed, you have to be willing to put in the work to get it done.  I work closely with our Horse 4-H, things are changing there in one of the MOST rigid groups I have ever worked with.   New folks coming into offices, postitions, who are more open to new thinking in ideas. 

Have to say change is often difficult for many, easier to do things "like we always have done it" than new ways.  Small steps, are easier to get approved, then done.  Thank them, take what they give for now, ask for more next year.  Some Fairs are VERY willing to work with new faces, try new ideas, new breeds.  Even being an exhibit breed or animal, will get you lots of questions, interest in the "new and different" helping your market for extra animals.  Present them well with good signs, pictures, breed brochures or information with addresses, have a smiling face to answer questions.  Have animals that tolerate new faces, petting by strangers, photo opportunities with the kids!  All good PR for you and getting your animals a spot at the Fair.


----------



## Beekissed (Sep 4, 2010)

Great info!!!   I think this small fair only has so many pens and doesn't have room for expansion....but I did notice they actually let the Highland cows compete this year and awarded prizes, whereas before they were only exhibition.  

I'd just like to see some Scottish Blackface sheep, Jacob sheep, hair sheep, etc. merely for the variety and beauty of it all.   I don't think there are enough in the area that have these breeds that would actually care to go to the trouble to bring them.  

Would be cool, though.... 

I did also notice, for the first time, there were several wool felting art exhibits and prizes.  Different and very pretty!


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh, and I did forward those pictures and my concerns to our state sheep breeder's association.....never did get a reply though.


----------



## judyc (Sep 15, 2010)

I bought five Dorper ewe lambs with docks so short the vulva is exoposed. I also have some that are un-docked. I have to say that a partial dock is handy when checking for udder development. I have long docks on my ewe lambs. I place the band just below where the hair starts on the underside of the tail.

It's funny to watch the girls curl that little tail. This way, I can see the udder clearly, yet they have protection.


----------



## Beekissed (Sep 15, 2010)

That's sad...Dorpers shouldn't need docking at all.  Why in the world would they dock Dorpers that short?  

That was one of the reasons I really swayed towards hair sheep...I didn't like the idea of cutting off a perfectly good tail and altering the natural appearance of the animal.  I don't tag my sheep either...one day I'm sure it will be mandatory but I can't see putting a heavy tag in a little lamb's ear, punching a hole....ick.  I didn't even get my own ears pierced!


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Sep 16, 2010)

Docking short enough to have an exposed vulva isn't *that* short. Most sheep are docked to expose the vulva, and even docking at the "recommended" length will expose the vulva.  

I think rules in Great Britain say the docks have to be long enough to cover the vulva.


----------



## nissa_loves_cats (Oct 17, 2010)

Tail docking is a 'sacred cow' custom, and it seems like people that advocate for it can't even agree on why it is necessary.   I have never docked a sheep of any breed and it seems that if anything an intact tail helps keep the hind end cleaner.

Perhaps the best way to discourage the ugly ultra-short tail dock is for sheep farmers to rebel against the tail-docking custom and just not dock. I took an undocked DorperxShetland ewe lamb to my local fair last year. She was placed 3rd out of three, but that was because she was so much smaller than her competitors who were much older (I tend to breed for March/April births so the flock can lamb on pasture.) 

But I'm not going to go around accusing people who dock tails too short of 'cruelty' because that just tends to rile them up and defend the practice.  It might be better to lead by example.


----------

