# Small white thread like worm on goat



## Our7Wonders (Jun 22, 2011)

When it rains it pours!  I'm dealing with a baby who doesn't want to eat, another with what may be cocci, and now one of my adult does has some sort of worm crawling around her butt.  I was milking her and  'bout fell off my stool today when I saw it!  Two actually. 

I've gotten repeat fecals back on her that show clean.  I don't know if I should bother with another - she's got SOMETHING, that part is obvious.  These things were tiny, guessing about 1/4" long, thread looking things.  White.  Squirming around on her butt.  Tapeworms are usually dead when they pass aren't they?  And aren't they supposed to look like rice grains?  Could these be pin worms?  Worm experts - help me out here!

Another thought I had:
I have a doe that has decided she has her very own "poop corner".  It's the only place in the shed that ever gets a build up of poo - simply because it's the only spot she goes in.  We shovel it out and dump diatomaceous earth on it regularly.  Temps have gotten quite a bit higher and I've noticed more flys lately.  Yesterday I noticed literally HUNDREDS maybe even THOUSANDS of tiny little fly-like bugs on the wall above her poop pile.  It was nasty-gross!    Rather than disturbing it and sending the swarm moving I doused them with several cup fulls of DE - hoping to kill most of them before moving the poo out.  I don't know what fly strike is, nor what I would even be looking for, but didn't want to rule out the possibility of fly larve either.  I don't know what those would look like - these really were small, very thin tread-like looking things.

I'm so grossed out right now - and am ready to hit them with the big guns!  I'm all for whatever chemical will eradicate this quickly.  I'm not convinced the only local livestock vet will be of any help to me but I can take in another fecal if it's advised - though these things were very much ALIVE - not sure if we'd be seeing eggs in a fecal.

I only have safeguard on hand, currently using it with my babies along with dimethox for cocci treatment.  Prior to this, none of my goats have ever been chemically wormed.  I've been tempted to treat them with it on NUMEROUS occasions - but fecals have always come back clean.  I'm usually one to proceed cautiously with chemicals but I haven't had much luck with the local vet so difinitive diagnosis may not be possible - I'm consdering using safeguard and then ivermectin, though I'll have to order it and wait for it to come in - so the safeguard can start the process and then after using it go with ivermectin.  The combo of the two would likely take care of *most* issues - would it not?  The local feed store (Big R) seems to believe that safeguard is still pretty effective in our area - perhaps because there isn't alot of livestock here?  

I don't want to help breed resistant worms, this much I do know.  I do, however, want to nip this in the bud right away.  They have been pretty worm resistant thus far - the doe that had the wigglies is 4 years old and hasn't needed any worming before - only natural preventatives.  I'm not ok with letting wigglies hang about while I attempt the natural stuff though, and whatever it is has obviously already made it past our natural defenses.  I'm ready for the heavy duty stuff.

Can you point me in the right direction, please?


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## doxiemoxie (Jun 22, 2011)

Tape worm segments will look like grains of rice once they are dried up.  They can be wriggly otherwise,  I know with cats and dogs the segments can look like pin worms  (shudder, grossing myself out)  I suspect that in ruminants they appear about the same even though the full worm in ruminants is larger.

Usually you won't see maggots (fly larvae) unless there is a wound or matted feces on the coat.

Dosing for round worms (ivermectin or other nematode tx) and safeguard for tape worms would probably take care of the problem whatever it is. And don't worry about breeding resistance, just make sure you treat with the correct dose and do a followup treatment as recommended.  

If you wanted to post  a pic  we could make guesses.  I iused to work in the vet field and am amazed at the number of people who do the fecals incorrectly (giving false negs) plus, the eggs/parasites don't always get shed with each poop.

Good Luck!


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 22, 2011)

I recommend equimax horse paste for tapeworms.


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 22, 2011)

I looked up some pics of tapeworms - both dry/dead and alive and moving and, unless these are itty bitty babies I don't think they're tape worms.  These things weren't much thicker than a hair - maybe a little thicker than the coarse hair on my goat's back legs.  Really thin.

I watched a video of a tapeworm that came out of a cat (yeah, still a little green and nauseated from watching that ) and it was MUCH bigger than what was on my goats butt.  Had it not been wiggling I would have likely mistook it for a loose hair.  

I looked up fly-strike maggots - definately not those either.  These were not "grub" looking at all like a maggot - think hair or thread - that's really what they were like.

My baby doeling has lice now too.

Ew, eww, EWWWWWWW.  I feel 'em crawlin' on me.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 22, 2011)

What you are discribing doesn't sound like tapeworms that I have seen, i wouldn't discribe tapeworms as thread like, more like chunks. when you see them in poop they look like white chunks, kind of flattish rice chunks. 

I wormed a doe last year that had scours and the next day she had a 3 foot long tapeworm hanging on the side of her, it was nasty, but still not thread like, more like flat and wide, like a 1/4 inch or so wide. 

I have no idea, if you see them again, grab a sample and take it to the vets for identification.


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## cmjust0 (Jun 22, 2011)

It's a gut worm of some kind..  If it was a stomach worm, you wouldn't see it because it would be mascerated into a poop pellet on the way out, and if it was a tape worm you'd see obvious segments..   I'd probably use Safe-Guard...seems like it's pretty OK still against gut worms.

As for the lice, I'd probably inject the lousy baby with some ivomec unless she's little enough that she can be dusted **all over** with some dairy dust.. And when I say all over, I mean absolutely every square millimeter of her skin.  The big ones probably need it too (those lice came from somewhere) and I'd definitely inject them with ivomec..  A big goat's just too big, in my opinion, to cover completely with dust..


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 22, 2011)

I have safeguard drench for goats - do you dose from the label?  I read all the time about  goats being given several times the label dose.  I know safeguard is really safe - how would you dose it?  And for how many days?  And if we do the ivomec to follow it up for any other worm stragglers and for lice how long should I wait after the safeguard?

What's the milk withdrawl on these things.  Am I remembering correctly that it's 5 days (ish) on the ivermectin?

On the baby with lice (I have a feeling she came here with them rather than picking them up here, but regardless they're here now and I want them gone!)  She's getting dimethox and safeguard right now (today is day two of 5).  I covered her pretty well with Python dust - but with the goats all being in fairly close proximity of eachother I'm going to have a tough time getting rid of it with just the dust.  How soon after her cocci treatment can we do the ivermectin?

Eeeks - lots of questions, sorry!  

Thanks!


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## Roll farms (Jun 22, 2011)

Argh...my reply disappeared.  I'll try again....

Google hook worm and whip worm, see if they look like either of those.
I don't think it's a tape, either.  Doesn't mean she couldn't also have one, though.

I've often thought your 'clean' fecals were inaccurate...all goats typically have SOME parasite load, they just fight it off / don't get 'sick'...

Me, I'd dose her at 3x the label dose for safeguard on day 1, then at 2x the dose for the next 2 days, AND give her probios all three days.  Safeguard really is very safe.

Then, I'd probably hit her w/ ivomec on day 7 and day 21.  Just saying what I would do.  

Safeguard has no listed milk withdrawal time, but I've drank the milk from goats who've been given nearly every class of dewormer and I'm still here.  I would think 1-2 wks tops should get everything out.

I've also given goats ivo and dimethox at the same time w/ no issues, providing the goat is pretty perky. 

I tried feeding my goats DE / dusting everything w/ DE for 18 mos (for fly issues, not worms) and had NO success.  It also didn't keep the mites off them.
There's 120$ I'll never get back...


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jun 23, 2011)

Don't forget when feeding your goats DE internally to feed them enough, a couple TBS isn't going to do much since DE kills by coming in contact with the worm and their gut is a pretty big place! A Nigerian (75lb) needs 1/4 C a day, so just adjust to whatever size yours are.


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## ksalvagno (Jun 23, 2011)

You want to dose the Safeguard at 1cc per 10 lbs.

I don't hesitate to give Ivomec at the same time as other wormers. Never saw any ill effects on the alpacas and haven't seen any ill effects on the goats.

As far as fecals, eggs/etc aren't shed with every poop. So you can easily be taking in a clean sample but have parasites. My vets have always told me that an animal is never truly parasite free.


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## PJisaMom (Jun 23, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Then, I'd probably hit her w/ ivomec on day 7 and day 21.


Is that 7 days from Start of safeguard/onset of problem, or after the three days of Safeguard?  And why wait from day 7 to day 21?  Not every 10 days?  Not arguing a bit... just genuinely curious... 




			
				ksalvagno said:
			
		

> I don't hesitate to give Ivomec at the same time as other wormers.


So... say you did three days of Safeguard... do you orally do Ivomec at the same time/inject it?  First day?  Third day?  

Just curious!


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## Roll farms (Jun 23, 2011)

PJisaMom said:
			
		

> Roll farms said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


7 days and 21 days from the start of the problem.

Most bugs have a 14-21 day life span.


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## patandchickens (Jun 23, 2011)

1/4" threadlike makes me think pinworms? Googling indicates that goats can indeed get 'em, although it is apparently not all that common and because it is not particularly health-endangering it doesn't seem to get *talked about* much.

Of course there are probably other internal worms of similar size, just pointing out that pinworms are a possibility (and you *would expect* to see pinworms sometimes crawling around on the outside of the goat, whereas that's not the case for other types)

Goat pinworms are different from the ones that affect humans and a quick google suggests they're not cross-transmissible although I don't swear to it.

Pat


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 23, 2011)

patandchickens said:
			
		

> 1/4" threadlike makes me think pinworms? Googling indicates that goats can indeed get 'em, although it is apparently not all that common and because it is not particularly health-endangering it doesn't seem to get *talked about* much.
> 
> Of course there are probably other internal worms of similar size, just pointing out that pinworms are a possibility (and you *would expect* to see pinworms sometimes crawling around on the outside of the goat, whereas that's not the case for other types)
> 
> ...


I've considered pin worms as well.  I've never seen 'em before to know what they'd look like for sure - but I think they're also called thread worms - which is a very accurate description of what I saw.  Unfortunately (or fortunately?) I didn't see any today.  I was prepared to take a sample to the vet, but no go.  Regardless, I'm pretty confident that the wormer combo will take care of it, whatever it may be.


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## patandchickens (Jun 23, 2011)

They look like, well, 1/4" threadlike thin worms    Unfortunately ANY nematode parasite of the same size is going to look basically identical. So you can't rely on appearance to separate them from other similar-size internal parasites. 

Pinworms are a bit better at moving around on surfaces than fully-internal parasites (b/c adult pinworms "go outdoors" once or twice a day to lay eggs around the outside of the animal's anal area) but without a basis for comparison I'm not sure that's a terribly useful bit of info 

The best way to learn what pinworms look like is to have them yourself, or in your kids   Well, when I say "best", I don't really mean "desirable" LOL

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 23, 2011)

patandchickens said:
			
		

> The best way to learn what pinworms look like is to have them yourself, or in your kids   Well, when I say "best", I don't really mean "desirable" LOL
> 
> Good luck, have fun,
> 
> Pat




I'd rather kill 'em all and not know than volunteer my butt (or my kids' butt) and know for sure.  Some things just aren't worth knowing.


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## Mossy Stone Farm (Jun 23, 2011)

I think doing the worming as suggested will take care of what ever worms your dealing with, i am like you i'd just want them gone and SOON!!!


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