# Worming my pregnant doe



## Moody (Feb 18, 2016)

I have a pregnant doe due March 15-17. I have seen what looks to be tapeworms in the barn. Don't know which goat dropped those so I wanted to get all 6 goats for tapeworms.

Also this particular doe is coughing a lot and seems like her eyelids are fairly pale. Not super pale but not pink either.

I gave her safeguard tonight just to get something done because it seems like she is in need. Safeguard is good for tapeworms right?  Can I wait until after she kids and do cydectin, which I have read is more effective than safeguard for lungworms? I would need to dose safeguard 2 more consecutive days right?

She is due so soon I really would like to wait but don't want waiting too long to be an issue.

I don't yet know how to do fecals and the vet here in town who does them does qualitative, not quantities and told me to just worm every 3 months.


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## Latestarter (Feb 18, 2016)

Silly vet, and they wonder why some drugs no longer work I don't know that I'd do all the goats if I don't know which one has the issue... I'd try to find the one with the issue. However, if you're seeing segments on the ground where the goats are, I guess there's a better than average chance they are all infected. 

Since you're still about a month before kidding I think worming would be OK. The problem is carrying the kids is putting added stress on the doe and a heavy worm load on top could well put her in jeopardy. Have you or are you planning on a CD&T shot? 

I check to those who know better than I; @babsbag @Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @OneFineAcre @frustratedearthmother


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## Moody (Feb 18, 2016)

Thanks for responding  I figure they likely all have picked up tapes even though I only saw it in what looked like one spot.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 18, 2016)

Tapes are really not a big deal but if you are seeing segments then she probably has a lot.

Safeguard must be used 3-5 days consecutively. One dose does NOTHING! Most vets do not recommend the dosage on the back of the bottle... it is usually to low.
The Consortium doubles the dose... my vets say 9-10 ml /100 lbs
You would be best advised by your vet as to what dosage he/she recommends. Anything outside of Safeguard is off label and needs a vet recommendation.

Ivermectin and Safeguard both treat lungworm.

Heavy parasite loads can cause coughing... but not tapes.


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 18, 2016)

For Safeguard my vet recommended 3x the dosage for 3-5 days.  It's a PI the Behind - but I always did it for 5 days...


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## Moody (Feb 19, 2016)

The coughing is bad and her eyelids are looking bad too. 

Should I forget the tapes for now (since safeguard isn't as effective anymore anyway) and go with ivermectin to help with her coughing and seemingly heavy load?


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## Southern by choice (Feb 19, 2016)

Fenben does still work... people simply do not use it right and then their goats build resistance. 

If heavy load then ivermectin can cause parasites to detatch too quickly and internal bleeding... this is not common unless load is really high.

I'd ask your vet.

If it were me and the load was high I would do fenben for 3 days in a row and then on day 5 ivermectin.

Again, ask you vet. None of us can see the eyelids, we don't know the count or body condition. Tapes do effect nutrients but they are the least of your concerns.


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## DebbieG (Aug 28, 2016)

Just bred two does yesterday.  Of course AFTER the fact one doe pooped pellets with multiple yellow pieces of something.  Took one in the house and looked under microscope.  Doesn't really look like anything, but is what I am seeing tapeworm?  Her eyelids look fine, but if tapeworm, too late for Valbazen.  Safeguard ok?


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## Latestarter (Aug 28, 2016)

Could it have been something she ate rather than tape worm? I've never seen actual tape sections, but from the pictures I've seen I don't recall them being yellow... Ummm @Southern by choice @babsbag @OneFineAcre @frustratedearthmother And so many others

(I'm loosing my mind, there are so many others and I can't remember all their names  I need to make up a "consulting" chart)


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 28, 2016)

Any tape segments I've seen are more of an off-white color.  But, people's descriptions can vary...I guess some folks might call off-white a light yellow???

Only real yellow I see is usually a bit of corn...


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## Southern by choice (Aug 28, 2016)

Tapes won't effect eyelid. FAMACHA is used for bloodsuckers only.
Barberpole is what it was developed for however I believe it is effective for flukes as well.

Tapes are generally whitish, not yellow. They are generally seen as small segments. Sometimes you will see the whole worm and wowzers. 
Usually you do not need to deworm for tapes unless the goat is really loaded. I would run a fecal and see how many "eggs" (not truly an egg per se) are there. 

SAfegard can be used but must be a 3 day course at a higher dose.


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## CJ. (Aug 31, 2016)

DebbieG said:


> Just bred two does yesterday.  Of course AFTER the fact one doe pooped pellets with multiple yellow pieces of something.  Took one in the house and looked under microscope.  Doesn't really look like anything, but is what I am seeing tapeworm?  Her eyelids look fine, but if tapeworm, too late for Valbazen.  Safeguard ok?


If you were using Valbazen previously then, it is fine to use during pregnancy, but not to newly introduce. In fact, worming  particularly for tapes is recommended along with Covexin 8 5-6 weeks pre-kidding as Doe passes tapes to kids. I have seen severely tape infested goats pass and cough up balls of tapes and tapes come out their nose. In segments they appear as a whitish in color piece of rice. It takes just one of those segments hiding out from worming treatment for +/- 6 months to infest goat. Look at her gums; if the reddish/dark pink color is fading, goat has worms. If gums appear light gray, chalky color-she really has worms. And if you add a dirty butt to that-you have a bad infestation. She may have a runny nose as well. Tapes will enter into the respiratory system. The more segments seen in the berries-the wormier the goat is. Each segment is a producing worm. One farm I went to work for I collected two fully in tact tapes for two of my local Vets to preserve for display: 1-22" and 1-19" long. Tapes do not need a host to survive. They are most prevalent in the underside of new, lush spring grasses. And if memory serves, ticks can pass tapes.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 31, 2016)

CJ. said:


> If you were using Valbazen previously then, it is fine to use during pregnancy, but not to newly introduce. In fact, worming particularly for tapes is recommended along with Covexin 8 5-6 weeks pre-kidding


Valbazon should *NOT *be used in the first 45 days of pregnancy.
Most will not give to any pregnant sheep or goat when there are safer dewormers to use. 
As far as Covexin 8 - although a CD &T is recommended 30 days prioir to lambing and kidding the Covexin 8 has much more to it. 
None of our vets recommend it (we have 4 vets) check with your vet and find out more about this first.


CJ. said:


> I have seen severely tape infested goats pass and cough up balls of tapes and tapes come out their nose.


Tapes live in the intestinal tract and are ingested not inhaled.


CJ. said:


> - 6 months to infest goat.


Adults live for approx 3 months. The stage is different for different species.


CJ. said:


> If gums appear light gray, chalky color-she really has worms.


Checking gums is very inaccurate in sheep and goats. This is more of a dog/cat method. Fecal analysis is best.


CJ. said:


> And if memory serves, ticks can pass tapes.


The Moniezia  does need a mite as intermediary host. 
Frogs and skinks can bring in tapes as well.
There are other species of tapeworm that infects sheep/goats.

The article below is excellent. Most sheep are resistant to this kind of tape.

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/#!tapeworms/c3ko


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## Fullhousefarm (Aug 31, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Valbazon should *NOT *be used in the first 45 days of pregnancy.
> Most will not give to any pregnant sheep or goat when there are safer dewormers to use.
> As far as Covexin 8 - although a CD &T is recommended 30 days prioir to lambing and kidding the Covexin 8 has much more to it.
> None of our vets recommend it (we have 4 vets) check with your vet and find out more about this first.
> ...



Good info from SBC!

I normally don't freak out over tapeworms because of the articles I have read from reputable resources like wormex.com. However, we had a problem with them this summer in our young stock and one milker.  After some more research and talking with my vet we used praziquantel. It is the only wormer that actually kills all stages of the tapeworm. You can use a horse paste that has it (Zimectrim gold, Quest Plus, etc) or use the "fish tape" meds and figure out the dose, which isn't easy- at least for me. With the first method you are also using another wormer too- good if they need it and bad if they only have tapes. I'd suggest asking your vet about it and discussing the doses initially.

The young doe who was struggling to gain weight and had a decreased appetite, but a clean fecal other than tape worm segments improved GREATLY in less than a week after being wormed- and I had used Valbazen and Safeguard correctly previously without any improvement. That's when the vet recommended the praziquantel and I saw improvement right away.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 31, 2016)

Fullhousefarm said:


> praziquantel



From what I understand that is best for almost all species of tape and for most species of animals getting tape.

So glad you mentioned it. I almost said something but thought ahhh that's another can of worms...   
I am also glad to hear how well it worked for you. 
I have no experience with it in goats so always nice to hear what is working for another. 

Interesting how rarely it is recommended or used though.
Wonder if is because of the difficulty in dosing.


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## babsbag (Aug 16, 2017)

I know that this is an old thread but I am researching tape worms in goats. I just found the info on praziquantel and the dose is 10 x more for goats than it is for a horse. No wonder it isn't used very often. 
http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3683&Itemid=4078

I think I am going to use Valbazen; fortunately no one is bred and I am not using the milk.  I have to dose 60+ goats so three days of Safeguard is not going to make me very happy.  I have some goats with coats from hell (or almost no coat at all) and I have seen tape worm segments so it is time.  I wish they had an injectable drug, so much easier to shoot than to dose..


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## Southern by choice (Aug 16, 2017)

babsbag said:


> I know that this is an old thread but I am researching tape worms in goats. I just found the info on praziquantel and the dose is 10 x more for goats than it is for a horse. No wonder it isn't used very often.
> http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3683&Itemid=4078
> 
> I think I am going to use Valbazen; fortunately no one is bred and I am not using the milk.  I have to dose 60+ goats so three days of Safeguard is not going to make me very happy.  I have some goats with coats from hell (or almost no coat at all) and I have seen tape worm segments so it is time.  I wish they had an injectable drug, so much easier to shoot than to dose..



Maybe this is a good time to do the fenben pellets... girls are in milk and you don't grain often so I bet they'd eat it up.


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## Latestarter (Aug 16, 2017)

babsbag said:


> I wish they had an injectable drug, so much easier to shoot than to dose..



Now see? I thought this and said this when I wormed my goats. I specifically asked the vet for an injectable. When I posted that on here, I was told that dosing was so much easier?  Maybe not in your case because you have so many?   Maybe it's just me...


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## babsbag (Aug 16, 2017)

I can get to the injection sites while they are in the milk stand, I can't get to their mouth. I don't mind giving a few cc to a few goats but giving it to 60 can be a challenge.

@Southern by choice  I thought about the pellets and looked for them and couldn't find any listed or dosed for goats.  All the stuff I found is .5% fenben and I know that the fenben for goats in liquid is much higher.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 16, 2017)

babsbag said:


> @Southern by choice I thought about the pellets and looked for them and couldn't find any listed or dosed for goats. All the stuff I found is .5% fenben and I know that the fenben for goats in liquid is much higher.



.5% is a higher concentration than the liquid.


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## babsbag (Aug 17, 2017)

The problem is that the pellets is done by weight and the liquid by volume. I can't find anything that says how to compare the two...

However I just found a neat little calculator... it tells me that I need to give them 4.8 ounces for 3 days if I have big horn sheep and only 1.2 ounces if I have a ruminant in the caprinae subfamily. What say you???

http://www.safeguard-dewormer.com/big-horn-sheep

I already bought the Valbazen...


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