# my pygmy is sick?



## wafflesmom (Sep 4, 2009)

Came home for lunch today and Grits didn't come out of the house. I checked on him and he was laying. I pulled him out and he fell over screaming. I quickly took him back to work. He'll be 6 wks old Sunday. 

I posted about them in on another thread with ?'s was tols what I was doing was good except I need to switch hay.

His temp was low. What bloodwork we can do in house for goats was pretty close to normal. He was a touch dehydrated despite that fact he's been drinking. He's was grinding his teeth. All the vets(we still do see small farm animals there)  thought maybe he had an ulcer from stress of moving. When we stood up he acted like he had to pee but nothing came out. 
So when them took abdominal and chest xrays. It looks normal.

He started vomiting and it was then suggested that maybe he ate something toxic? Sugar my girl is fine.
He got some meds and I brought him home. He goes back with me in the morning. He did drink some and isn't grinding his teeth anymore.

Anyone of ya'll had a sick baby that was vomiting?


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## trestlecreek (Sep 4, 2009)

Okay,..now what is he doing?
Is he laying there stiff? Or is he just curled up like he's tired?
Does he walk around? Does he eat?
What is his temperature?
What has his diet been for the last few days?

Vomiting does generally indicate poison.
Did they give him charcoal?
What meds did he get?


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## bheila (Sep 4, 2009)

One of my does bloated in July and then what she ate became toxic in her so she started vomiting.  I eneded up giving her charcoal. Usually when their temp is low it means their rumen isn't functioning correctly.  When their temp is high then their body is fighting infection. 

If the vet thought he ate something toxic then what did he suggest/prescribe for him?  Keeping him hydrated is important especially if he's vomiting.  I was drenching my doe with Gatorade every hour.  
The grinding of the teeth is just a normal response to pain.  Goats will also stand with their heads against the wall when they're in pain.


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## wafflesmom (Sep 4, 2009)

He got charcoal and penicillin.

His temp is 101.9. Breathing is normal. This morning he was happy go lucky and eating. Hasn't eaten since. 
The past few days it has been purina goat chow, timothy hay and grazing. He's eaten some dried leaves too.
In the past hour and 1/2 he's been either curled up sleeping, standing, walking some and crying occasionally. Mostly crying when I leave him.
Usually when he stands up, he stretches for maybe 30 seconds then lays down again. 
He has drank some water. Right now he's curled up sleeping and I just moved his bowl b/c his head was slowing sinking towards it. It acts very tired.


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## wafflesmom (Sep 4, 2009)

He just now pooped a good bit.


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## Roll farms (Sep 4, 2009)

If you haven't yet, I'd give him some form of Pro-biotic to help repopulate his rumen w/ good bugs.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 4, 2009)

Okay. What does his poop look like? Have you seen him urinate?
Do you have any probios paste? You know how to drench right?
I would drench him with some water if you can to keep him going for tonight. How much does he weigh?
In the morning, if you don't have it, get probios paste and sav-a-calf electrolyes plus(this has probios in it). I prefer to use just the save-a-calf to drench 5-6 times a day.
Also, if here, I would give a shot of Fortified B-plex.
What vaccines has he had?


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## wafflesmom (Sep 5, 2009)

His temp 5 minutes ago was 102.5. He weighs 10.4 lbs.

Lots of normal pellet poo and he had one big clump of pellets. 
I was about to vaccinate him and Sugar tonight. Vaccine that farm vet told me to get. Its out in the garage fridge.

I will get the probiotics ya'll suggest tomorrow. Will hit feed store earlier b/c I haven't seen any at the clinic.

I wish the farm vet at work was in town or could be reached! Will try again tomorrow.
I've been doing lots of searching tonight and then finally dug thru my books from vet tech school. Granted they are 16 yrs old but figured looking up info wouldn't hurt. I have never worked in a large animal clinic so this part is new to me but I found info about ruminal acidosis and wondering if that's the problem. It said caused by sudden change in feed and he fits a lot of the symptoms. He did get a change in feed. Before he was eating the same thing as donkeys.
It mentioned milk of magnesia and had a dosage.

I gave him some and boy did he hate it! He looks better after about an hour. The grinding that had started back is less. He's more alert and looking at me when I say his name. He's still drinking water. 

Its gonna be a long night b/c I don't think I can sleep!


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## wafflesmom (Sep 5, 2009)

Its an hour later and he seems to be peacefully sleeping. He did have some diarrhea about 30 mins ago. I bagged it up to take to work. 
Think I might try to get some sleep now since work is 5 hrs away.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 5, 2009)

Hopefully he will be okay. Grinding is a pretty bad sign with a goat.
I would start drenching with the sav-a-calf electrolytes at this point,.... he needs those to push through this.
Ask your vet about SMZ-TMP as well,.....sounds like he may have a little entrotoxemia...... C & D anti-toxin would probably be helpful too at this point....
I would hold back on the grain and see that he eats his hay..


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## wafflesmom (Sep 5, 2009)

Ok, got C&D, and electrolytes. Also got the only drenching gun they had they. Boy that so much nicer than a syringe! Got pro-boitic paste too. He somewhat hated that.
Been drenching him about every 5-6 hours b/c he stopped drinking.
The info I found about C&D said do 3cc 3 times a day. Is that correct?

He had a nice normal poo in the front seat of my car. I had a rabbit with gastrointestinal statsis once and remember normal poop was a good thing. Is that the same with goats and acidosis?

Is the pro-biotic paste once a day? Doesn't say on label.

Thanks a lot for all of the help!


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## trestlecreek (Sep 5, 2009)

Yes, you want normal poo!! That is a good sign!!
You for the C & D anti-toxin, yes, 3-5ml, 3-4 times a day should be helpful. Some people give much more than that.

For the probios, give a notch on the dial 3-4 times a day. As long as it does not have vitamins added in it, you can't hurt with too much probios. 
Keep up w/ the penicillin as indicated by your vet. Give him the B-plex if you have it, that will help increase his appetite and will help his gut get back in gear.... 

If you can, ask about the SMZ if he doesn't get much better by tomorrow. That can be given with the pen. You can also ask for some banamine; that may help calm his gut a bit as well.

Acidosis and entro run hand in hand. Normal poo is good, but you don't want him grinding and you do want to see him eat his hay and drink his water by his own devises. When you see those things improve is when you know he is on remission with this.
he will eat, hop, play and get into trouble when he is feeling better, but it may take a few days....

Keep drenching with the sav-a-caf plus. That will push him through this more quickly. For a 60lb goat I would go around 120cc, 5 times a day(for yours you'll have to convert down in lbs.)..... He'll get to the point to where he will see you coming with to drench and he will go to the bucket to show you!

When he gets better(I would look at 3-5 days), you can slowely introduce the grain back, by a little tiny handful 2 times a day, but don't push that right now. Push the hay. 

When he is back to normal, start the c/d tetanus vaccine series. That would be 2cc every 21 days for a total of 3 shots. Then you booster every 6 months.

Sounds like he may pull through for ya! Keep us updated!!


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## wafflesmom (Sep 5, 2009)

Despite everything I did, Grits died about 40 mins ago:-( 
I walked him outside this afternoon and Sugar was so happy to see him. She knew he didn't feel good and was rubbing her head against his. It was sweet!

I feel horrible! I wish I had known sooner about drastic food changes! I feel even worse for poor Sugar whose cried for him so much, no sound comes out anymore.


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## lilhill (Sep 5, 2009)

So sorry Grits didn't make it.  As hard as we try, we just can't save them all.  Doesn't make us feel any better though.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 5, 2009)

Ahhh  I'm sorry to hear that. 
I'm sorry you lost him, it happens to the best of us. We don't always know. I have a "Common Misconceptions and FAQ" thread up in feeding section. It has some good info there that may help you some more. I have also posted my Basic Care Sheet in the feeding section; in light of little Grits.

Being a goat owner for the 1st time is overwhelming. Goats work much differently compared to many animals. Going from small animal to large is a challenge. Just hang in there!! With your background, you will pick this up quickly.

Get Sugar started on the vaccine. The vaccine can help protect them from this happening. It's not a miracle vaccine(they still will be sensitive to food), but it does do it's intended job normally speaking.

Poor Sugar, I know it is sad to see them miss their friend.


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## freemotion (Sep 5, 2009)

Poor Grits!  Poor you!  Try not to feel too guilty....you did all you could.....   I'm sure he knew he was loved.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 5, 2009)

I"m so sorry to hear about Grits. You really did everything you could.


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## wafflesmom (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks everyone. I'm somewhat better today and Sugar's been getting extra loving from both me and my husband. 
Everytime we let the dogs go out, she follows them around the fence. My Great Dane has been laying next to the fence.

What really bugs me is before I got Grits I found this site and had been reading about diet and etc. Then I registered.

After watching Sugar eat and etc. Its very clear now that Grits was overeating everything and picking thru the purina goat chow.  That really had me watching her today!! Gave her hay, some chow but 1st I sat in the garage floor picking out what Grits was gorging on. I left some grain, corn and sat there while she ate. She didn't pick anything out. She's also eating hay, grass, what leaves she can find and drinking. I'm paranoid now about her getting sick!

She got vaccinated and dewormed today. The people at the feed store  showed me this stuff called calf pac. Says it helps during times of stress and helps when switching food. I got some but not used it yet. Thought I'd ask here 1st


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## trestlecreek (Sep 6, 2009)

Have you compared the "calf pac" to the sav-a-calf electrolytes? Is there a difference? I'm not familiar with that product.

I thought that you were feeding the purina goat chow as the sole source of grain? Do you also have loose corn? If so, I would be certain that there is your problem.

Did the people that sold you the goats tell you anything about goats?

You really need to get a good book specifically about goats. It will explain the basics much better than what you can pick out off of a board..... everything will be laid out to you in the correct order.

I have been trying to contribute here where I can(just joined myself), but I can not begin to explain everything one needs to know in a short amount of time...


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## wafflesmom (Sep 6, 2009)

I ordered a book over a week ago. Hasn't gotten here yet.

The calf pac is a powder form of probiotics. Says for healthy animals to sprinkle on feed during times of stress.

I am feeding just purina goat chow, hay and grazing. After Grits got sick and seeing what was in the bowl with only her, it was clear that he was eating the grain and corn that's in it and not the pellets.

He was given to me and it was on this forum that I read about the goat chow being good. Before he got sweet feed and some grazing.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 6, 2009)

Ahh, okay, I see what you are saying.
Yes, now Purina brand Noble Goat is a pellet and Purina Show Chow is just a pellet, you may consider either of those if you think picking will be a problem. Regular goat grain is typically just that, mixed grains and some goats will pick the goodies out. 

Yes, the Calf Pac is probably much like the probios tubed version I am familiar with, just in powder form. You could probably drench that if needed.

Yep, you are right, the sweet feed was bad, did they tell you how much of that he was eating? If he was used to getting lots of sweet feed, the regular goat chow shouldn't have hurt him.....goat chow typically is corn, pellets, oats, sunflower seeds wetted with molasses....
I have to wonder if something else may have been going on?
How old was he and how much did he weigh?


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## nightshade (Sep 6, 2009)

omg I just read this I am so very sorry for your loss.  I recently lost half of my herd (6) in three weeks to something I now know I could have easily prevented if I just had known what I was doing wrong. I can defiantly feel you pain.


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## wafflesmom (Sep 7, 2009)

Sugar's not picking through it so that's good!

He would have been been 6 wks old yesterday. He weighed 10.5 lbs.

I was told when he was given to me that they didn't think he was growing much. But then again his diet wasn't good.

Also learned that his mom and dad have never been vaccinated. 
Oh well, guess not much I can do now other than keep Sugar healthy. 

I am looking for another one and got some emails about males. Of course her brother is still available. Not sure what I'm gonna do just yet?


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## crazygoatlady (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm sorry ,  there are so many variables and a real learning process.  I have a notebook and write everything down-all the details-and what was done.  Then if anything happens again, you can look at it on paper. It could have been coccidiosis--or an overload of worms.   It is very difficult when one works so hard to save a life, but still lose it. .


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## wafflesmom (Sep 7, 2009)

Checked him for worms and coccidia twice and was neg. He was dewormed right before I got him.

As far as a log, I have one started for goats have one for breeder birds and my tarantulas too.

I don't think I'll get another one as young as him.


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