# Ewe straining but no plug, no discharge, no sac...  Just wait?



## shepherdO (Mar 3, 2019)

Hey all, 

We came home from church at 1:30 this afternoon to find my rambouillet ewe Bonnie with sunken in sides, an udder the size of a basketball, and breathing pretty hard.  As of now (2.5 hours later) she's in the jug doing all the pawing, breathing hard with head hanging down, lying down and getting up shtick, etc.  

As of late the lying down is accompanied by periodic straining - the kind where she's lying flat with neck out, and then kind of 'rolls up' a bit more onto her back if that makes sense, legs straightening, etc.  NOT full-on 'almost there' stage 3 pushing, but definitely something.

Anyhoo, the thing that I'm finding weird is that there hasn't been any discharge that I've seen, nor is there any mucus plug or anything like that.  In the births that I've witnessed, there's almost been something like that as a precursor.

I think at this point obviously I'm going to wait, but at what point do you worry that something's wrong inside?  Particularly something like (eg) ringwomb, or something blocking the cervix, or...?  I'm hoping this is all just going to sort itself out, but the ewe is a first timer and a bit older, so of course I'm worried.  In my limited experience, when they're getting to the pushing stage and breathing as hard as she is, typically their back end shows more evidence of being involved in the process!

Attached are pics of her vulva and also her sunken sides.  Poor girl.  She's a beautiful friendly ewe, so I'm hoping for a ewe from her.  

Shepherd)


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## shepherdO (Mar 3, 2019)

I


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## shepherdO (Mar 3, 2019)

Anyone?   I don't know how to tag the experts...


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## frustratedearthmother (Mar 3, 2019)

I don't know anything about sheep - but at this point it might be a good idea to do  quick internal exam if she'll let you.   I'll try to tag some sheep people for you @Mike CHS, @Baymule, @secuono, @Sheepshape.  I'm sure there are others - I just can't think of them.


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## shepherdO (Mar 3, 2019)

Thanks!  I'm torn about jumping the gun here - she is obviously in labour, but apparently stage 1 can take 2-14 hours...  Then other sites say 2-6 hours, and so on.  As she's a first time mum, I feel like I should just give her a bit of time... and yet I don't want to let the lamb(s) die... uggh... the dilemma.

She's currently not pushing - just contracting.  You'd think after going through 4 human birthings (as the father, granted) I'd be more prepared for this.


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## frustratedearthmother (Mar 3, 2019)

I raise goats - not sheep.  I know that after this long I'd wash up, lube up and do a finger sweep.  It won't hurt her and it might ease your stress level a bit.


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## shepherdO (Mar 3, 2019)

Is the finger sweep just to see (eg) how dilated the cervix is, or...?  She's a monster ewe, and I can't see how I'd be able to examine her without assistance - something I don't have at the moment!  Better call my nephew, as I don't think my 10 year old could hold back this ewe - she jumps when I eve touch her udder a bit!


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## frustratedearthmother (Mar 3, 2019)

Yes, just to "see" what's going on in there.  You might find out she's not dilated.  Or you might feel a baby part that's not where it's supposed to be.  Hopefully, everything is fine and she's just taking her sweet time.


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## Baymule (Mar 3, 2019)

How is your ewe? I haven't had to "go fishing" for lambs....(yet). So I really don't know what to tell you at this point. I have the OB gloves, but haven't used any. 

I had to milk 3 FF's this time, I cornered them up, launched myself at them, got a horse lead rope around their necks and tied them to a post so I could milk them. If your ewe is jumpy, tie her up or just lay her down with someone to hold her down so you can do a vaginal exam. 

Hope she is ok.


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## shepherdO (Mar 3, 2019)

Okay, well, my nephew came over and we both took a turn examining her.  I tried first (how brave, I know) but didn't really know what I was doing, nor how hard to push.  I got in about to where my fingers meet my hand, maybe a bit farther.  Basically all 4 fingers.  Apparently I was past the cervix, b/c my nephew got a bit farther and said he was in the womb, and could feel something, but couldn't go in any farther without pushing harder than he was comfortable doing.

He took a sheep course with the local vet and has examined more than myself (helping me pull 4 lambs (3 dead, my bad) in my first lambing experience last spring.  So basically, he's 'been in there', so to speak - but still no expert.

He thinks it COULD be a breech delivery - either that or a really big lamb head, but couldn't be sure, as he couldn't get far enough.

So, basically we're going to wait an hour and see if anything's progressing, and crossing our fingers that the internal exam got things rolling a bit.  She is breathing really hard, and lying down and pushing quite a bit - lips curled, etc.  But also taking a nibble of hay once in a while.  At this point, b/c we can't get part enough due to the partially dilated cervix, we feel that all we can do is wait.  Even if it turns out poorly (ie, lamb gets stuck or dies or whatever) we feel like we can't do anything else at this point.

So, we'll look in on her each hour from now on and see how it's going.

My hope is that b/c this is her first time and she's older, she's at the far end of the '2-14 hours to fully dilate during stage 1 labour' spectrum, and she's saving a lab for later tonight!  It's 7:45 pm and I hope I don't end up staying up all night again...

ShepherdO


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## Baymule (Mar 3, 2019)

Put on the coffee pot....


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## shepherdO (Mar 3, 2019)

Okay, so she's down and pushing pretty hard, and definitely breathing very heavily.  No moaning/yelling at this point.  But still no sign of anything bulging at the back end.  Does a ewe normally have to work this hard to dilate the cervix?  I thought this much pushing and hard working was only in stage 2... I'm not feeling good about this.

Here's hoping that she's dilated some next exam so that we can get this/these babies out...   Poor Bonny...


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## Sheepshape (Mar 3, 2019)

Doesn't sound right to me. Occasionally the cervix can fail to dilate in labouring ewes and a Caesarian is needed. 

If she were mine I'd inject her with Metacam (any-inflammatory), re-examine her carefully, and, most likely call the vet.


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## shepherdO (Mar 3, 2019)

We're going to check again and see what's up.  We'll try to manually dilate the cervix... don't have any Metacam or the like.  So many things to go in the lambing kit.  A nice big bottle of experience being the most mecessary...

I'm not thinking ringwomb b/c it was dilated - just not enough, as far as we could tell.  I think that with some stretching we might get somewhere.  We'll give it a try anyway.


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## shepherdO (Mar 4, 2019)

Well, I went out to check, and lo and behold I see a foot, then two coming in and out.  Lots of pushing but no progress, so my nephew and I went to pulling, but that sucker was stuck tight.  But it was alive!  Tongue out of moth a bit so we helped by tugging - lots of lube and assisting her contractions we got her out... but she must have died just a minute or two earlier.  So sad... nice big ewe lamb, and I wanted a ewe from Bonny...

Tried to resuscitate, swing, mouth to mouth, chest compressions all to no avail.  First dead lamb of the year...

Bonny was spent, just laying there breathing super hard.  Two sacks came out simultaneously - a clear one and a dark one, but she wasn't even pushing she was so tired.

We figured we should check for a twin, and sure enough Jacob found one waaaaaaaaaay down in the uterus, but couldn't figure out what was what, plus the head was way down there.  We waited for about 10 minutes and tried again, at which point he found a head and one foot in the birth canal.  This one was pulled out much more quickly - I can't remember if it was two feet or one foot and head... 

Either way, it was a very small ram lamb, extremely weak.  At this point Bonny finally started showing interest in the lamb, chortling and licking... for awhile.  Then this ewe who had totally ignored food for the last 12 hours started chowing down on hay and licking a bit once she felt like it!

Baby was getting so cold and starting to lose it, so we carried him in and gave him a hot water bath, at which point he began to show signs of life... just barely.  He's currently in a hot box with my daughter's hair drier trying to get him dry.  He's definitely warm, but it's HARD to get a floppy lamb dry!  There's always a hidden part that's slimy and wet!

Anyhoo, things aren't looking great.  I've syringed him some colostrum (Bonny's udder is huge!  Lots of colostrum, but there's no way this little lamb could manage her huge teats...) and he's had a couple CC's but I don't have a stomach tube, so I'm thinking I'll give him my best tonight, but I'm not particularly optimistic...  

If nothing else I have a huge ewe who (1) survived!  It was looking doubtful, from my inexperienced eye at least; (2) who has a ton of colostrum to provide that I can freeze for the future, and (3) could possibly be a nanny ewe for my week old bottle lamb.  I was not in a position to try to foster Tim-Tam (the bottle lamb) on Bonny, but tomorrow I'll try to build some sort of stanchion, possibly a semi-permanent one, and then hopefully if I can get her sucking on the lamb it will save me some serious $$!

So, hopefully this little guy survives, but either way we're going to try to make it work for good.  This is seriously going to hurt my lambing percentage though... I just went from 200% down to 130%!  Lesson learned...

Well, back to blowdrying...
ShepherdO


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## TheSwindler (Mar 5, 2019)

How is he doing?


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## shepherdO (Mar 5, 2019)

Well, he'st still alive, and thanks to this ewe having a massive udder (at least compared to my other sheep) he's getting lots of milk.  She's probably milking close to 1.5-2 liters per day, and is a REALLY easy milker.  Barely kicks here and there.

Anyhoo, he is VERY weak and does not really suck that much.  I'm still syringing him b/c he doesn't have much energy.  But he can get up, and though he spends most of the time lying down he'll stand if you scratch his back, and will stand for up to 30 minutes.  My dad (a retired physiotherapist) and mom babysat him today, and my dad took him for walks outside to strengthen his muscles and get him going.  He says it makes them tired, helps them sleep, but also gets them more perky when they wake up.  Hopefully it's one step in the rehab process.

I'm giving him about 5 cc or honey 10 minutes before a feed to give him a boost.  I'm going to try to get him back onto a bottle tomorrow, then when he has enough strength and can suck well, I'll try stanchioning his mum and use her as a nanny for this little guy and another bottle reject.  That's the theory anyway.  I'll be hard work, but save a ton of money in feeding.   Currently I'm milking out mom 3x day (would like to do more but work is a reality) and feeding her well to try to keep her milk going until this little guy's strong enough.  I'm thinking best cast scenario the weekend, or basically 6 days old.


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## frustratedearthmother (Mar 6, 2019)

Do you think he might nurse while she's on the stanchion?  Is he strong enough to try?  Maybe give it a shot?


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## shepherdO (Mar 6, 2019)

Hey - he's super tiny and weak - can barely stand when he's being syringed.  He really just isn't getting any stronger.  He'll take 100ml at a time, but he's not an eager eater, and more just accepting the food b/c he doesn't have the energy to resist...  He's coming on 3 days now, so I'm hoping to turn a corner soon.

His mom is being milked so we're keeping her in milk until, hopefully, he has the strength to nurse at some point.


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## frustratedearthmother (Mar 6, 2019)

shepherdO said:


> But he can get up, and though he spends most of the time lying down he'll stand if you scratch his back, and will stand for up to 30 minutes.


Sorry I guess I misunderstood. I thought if he could stand for 30 minutes he might be able to try nursing....


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## shepherdO (Mar 6, 2019)

It's worth a try... he's just so fragile that I don't want to risk him getting hurt.  I think when he's able to suck on a bottle (I'm going to push that hard from now on) then we'll give him a try.  I think he may have learned to be lazy b/c we just plunger it into him... time to build a sucking reflex, buddy!


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## Ridgetop (Mar 8, 2019)

Just found this and also other post about saving this lamb. 

Too late now, but if you wanted to get that other bottle baby onto this ewe as a foster lamb, you needed to wipe that lamb all over with the dead lamb's afterbirth, leave the afterbirth on the foster lamb and give her to the ewe.  The ewe will clean the afterbirth off the foster lamb and should take care of it after that.  I would milk out the colostrum to freeze though to save for any future problems.  If you are prepared for problems they usually don't happen.  "Ridgetop Rules"  LOL  It is when you are not prepared that everything goes wrong.  Sorry about losing that nice ewe lamb.


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## Daxigait (Mar 8, 2019)

Just to know. I experienced a doe that was not dilating her cervix this year and she was straining with contractions the vet had me give her 30 cc's of calcium with vitamins and she ended up dilating and kidding smoothly after that. She told me if she didn't do it by morning which would have been about six hours later to give her a second dose and if that hadn't worked that we would have had to go cesarean or something.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 8, 2019)

Good to know!  Something to add to the kidding/lambing supply box.  Thanks.


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## Daxigait (Mar 9, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> Good to know!  Something to add to the kidding/lambing supply box.  Thanks.


My money saving in friendly advice tip because it cost me lots of money to have the vet out at 12:30 at night to tell me a tube of calcium vitamin mix and tell me to give her 30 cc's now and if she hadn't given by morning to give her another dose and if she didn't kid by afternoon she would have to come back out to do much more.  she lost the plug about 1:30 in the afternoon and have been straining for awhile like your poo before I messaged the vet that I needed some help.  I had reached in but I'm still relatively new and I didn't realize that because I couldn't feel anything was because I wasn't getting past the cervix but I was uncomfortable going in past half my gloved hand.  usually by that far and I can feel a head or feeding if I need to move something around to help it come out easier I can do that.
Anyway, I gave the 30 cc's in a couple hour laters hours later she popped out two kids.  Unfortunately bucklings, nothing back legs are always bad, but this was probably her last kidding for me and I never got another dough after her first kidding and of course the first year I sold the kids I was buying fencing back then and every kid was another roll of fence. Unfortunately, she never had another one.

I gave it orally with a big syringe. There may be something more specific to goats or lambs but this is what she gave me may have been what she had on the truck.


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