# Our Billy is Sick...swollen lips



## hobbleyfarm (Sep 8, 2009)

Unfortunately, this has to be my first post to the backyardherds forum.  Our billy, Oscar, is not well.  He's standing off alone.  His bowel movements are normal.  Not any worms to the naked eye when dissected.  Urinates normally.  His fur is thick, and healthy.  No wounds anywhere.  His lips seem to be swollen...just a little different from bottle jaw.  He will stand erect and very still.  When is does move, he seems dizzy.  Bought some SafeGuard Goat wormer and administered yesterday.  Have electrolytes in water.  He makes a constant chewing motion with his mouth.  I do have Poke Berry in the pasture.  I have seen the purple juice on his back and sides where he (I had assumed) just brushed against it.  He has had no weightloss.  I'm not sure what's going on.  Does anyone recolonize these symptoms?


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## ksalvagno (Sep 8, 2009)

Do you have a good goat vet in your area or even a very experienced goat farmer to help you? It sounds to me like someone needs to see your goat in person to help diagnose the problem. Getting some Probios into him never hurts.

I hope your goat does ok and


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## cmjust0 (Sep 8, 2009)

What is it about his movements that make him seem "dizzy?"


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## hobbleyfarm (Sep 8, 2009)

thanks, vagnoh

Cmjust: he seems unsteady.  His back in seems a little stiff.  He's not rolling his head.

ETA:  I just found this link.  I think this is what i'm dealing with.  Sounds the same.  Does anyone here have any experience with "sore mouth/contagious Ecthyma"

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/an_sci/extension/animal/meatgoat/pdf_factsheets/ANS 00 601MG.pdf


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## ()relics (Sep 8, 2009)

Insect bite? I've had it before...A doe must have stumbled into a wasps nest or something...her head looked like a head of cauliflower...I gave her 100mg of benadryl twice and she was normal....I WOULD CALL MY VET IF HE WAS MINE....JMO...I try to dose at 1 mg per pound for an emergency.....BUT I WOULD CALL YOUR VET.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 8, 2009)

First of all, I think it's time for a vet visit..  Sometimes things are just too odd to diagnose over the web, and I'm thinking this is one of those times.

That's my primary advice here...call the vet.

Now, with that said....unfortunately, I've seen soremouth..  We bought a couple of "healthy" does (private treaty!) to keep our buck (at the time) occupied through the summer so we could repeat some breedings the following fall, and one of the does brought sore mouth with her and gave it to him.  She had a teeny tiny lesion on her udder...we totally missed it, but he got it good.  It's gross looking, but fairly short lived (3wks, max) and not usually all that big of a problem.  He ate, drank, and acted normally as it ran its course.  I always cringed when I saw him bury his cracked, bloody, oozie, scabby muzzle in a thorny osage orange, but he didn't seem to mind it too much.  Once it was gone, you couldn't tell he'd ever had it.

Here's a google image search for soremouth , in case you haven't actually seen what it looks like.

Never did I see our buck stagger or act dizzy from soremouth..  If soremouth is in fact what's going on with his lips, I'd say you're dealing with multiple different problems.  It's hard to say without seeing pictures of your buck, but if it really were soremouth and you were seeing it for the first time, I can't help but think you'd more likely be going "HOLY CRAP, MY GOAT'S LIPS ARE ROTTING OFF!!!"...not the calm "his lips seem to be swollen" you posted..

Which says to me it's not soremouth...and that the swollen lips/dizziness may well be related somehow.

I'd never investigated Poke before, but here's one source  that says it's poisonous to goats.  I can see how the stiff stance and odd gait may be linked to abdominal pain if he'd eaten it, but apparently he'd most likely have diarrhea, too...  Still, I wouldn't rule it out.

All in all, the things that come to mind the quickest when I hear about a goat with stiffness or an unsteady gait in the rear legs are severe copper or thiamine deficiencies...but neither of those, to my knowledge, would affect the lips.  With a thiamine deficiency, he'd probably be 'stargazing' too..  

How old is this buck, by the way?  And what breed?


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## hobbleyfarm (Sep 8, 2009)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> First of all, I think it's time for a vet visit..  Sometimes things are just too odd to diagnose over the web, and I'm thinking this is one of those times.
> 
> That's my primary advice here...call the vet.
> 
> ...


Oscar is about 2 years old.  He's boer/kiko.  You're probably right with the multiple issues.  I'm not the "holy crap" type of forum poster.  On checking on him, I did see that our Nubian also has it now.  I will be calling the vet to see if they can come out and take a look.  I have read opposing views on vaccines.  I would also like to find something I could spray down the pasture with to help kill the virus.  

This is not a picture of my goat.  However it is what he looks like


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## cmjust0 (Sep 8, 2009)

hobbleyfarm said:
			
		

> *He will stand erect and very still.  When is does move, he seems dizzy*.  Bought some SafeGuard Goat wormer and administered yesterday.  Have electrolytes in water.  *He makes a constant chewing motion with his mouth.*...


TETANUS!!!  That's surely what it sounds like to me, and it seems to make sense..

He most likely either _has_ or _had_ open wounds from the soremouth...there's clue #1.  He's stiff and uncoordinated...clue #2.  He's making weird mouth movements...clue #3 (lockjaw!!!)

I'd still be on the phone with the vet, but if he were mine, I'd be hitting him with tetanus ANTI-TOXIN _right freakin now_ in the meantime.  

I've read, too, that if you rap a tetanus-infected goat on the chin pretty hard, their eyes will roll back...no experience with that, but maybe you could try and see what happens..

By the way...be careful not to touch the scabs of the soremouth with your bare hands!!  Soremouth is a zoonotic disease -- you can get it, too.  

That's my guess, though -- Tetanus!

Keep us posted!


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## Roll farms (Sep 8, 2009)

What is his temp?
If he has a fever, I'd give him Pen G asap, a Vitamin B shot, and call a vet ASAP.  Follow up w/ Probiotics to keep the rumen going after all the antibiotics.

Soremouth is more a pain to deal with than a real threat to their lives, but a weakened immune system could bring out all the nasty crud...listeriosis, tetanus, etc.
The jaw movement sounds like teeth grinding, which is a sign of being in pain.

I nursed a doe through Tetanus once, (she went down w/ it 4 days after I got her home...I'd been told she'd been vaccinated....last time I believed that story...) and she went from fine to fully locked in 12 hours.   She couldn't stand and her head kept going back toward her shoulders, I'd pull it down and it'd go right back.  I thought her neck was hurt until I tried to open her mouth and couldn't.
Later she developed listeriosis and was also grinding her teeth and wobbly...nursed her through that, too...

Whatever the case, the best advice is: call a vet.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 9, 2009)

If I saw that here, I would be to the vet.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 10, 2009)

Soooo......

What happened?  Any updates on the buck?


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