# The Nestbox Doesn't Lie...Genes Lurk Deeeeep!  Or do they?



## brentr (Apr 21, 2013)

Background:  I have a Cali doe and Cali buck.  Bred them together many times (probably 6+) litters.  EVERY litter resulted in the typical Cali markings on the babies.

Her most recent litter was kindled 11 days ago.  Fourteen kits, with one stillborn.  A whopper of a litter, especially since the two previous litters had 7 and 5 kits, respectively.  One of my SF does kindled the same day and only had one live kit and five stillborn (material for another post).  I fostered over 4 Cali kits into the SF litter to join the single surviving SF kit.  My Cali doe has raised litters of nine, so I thought that would be enough.

Ended up losing five more Cali kits over the next 2-3 days.  Frustrating, but it happens I guess.  So I'm left with 4 kits in the Cali doe's nest, and 4 fosters in the SF doe's litter.

Here's where the fun begins.  Here's mom and dad:









Here's the four kits left in her nest.  Slow growers, they're finally looking the way I want days-old kits to look - fat and sleek.  Check out their coloring, especially the two spotted:









Here's the four fostered siblings (the 4th is burrowed under the hair).  Not a mark anywhere!:





Anyone seen this?  I'm going to assume that somewhere back in their family lines one or both of my Calis have some other breeds mixed in - maybe Standard Rex or English Spot?  This has NEVER happened with my Calis before.  What makes it even more interesting is the 4 fosters look typically Cali - not  a spot of color anywhere but their ears and nose at this point.

And before anyone asks, there is NO question about the sire of the litter.  No accidental breeding here; very controlled cage set up.

I've read on here about the color marking gene in Calis and how it can be affected by temperature.  What is the chance that this is environmental and not genetic, given that half the litter is "normal" and half is unique?  And it is interesting that all four are in the same nest.  I think it is very small, personally.

THey're just meat rabbits so no worry for me.  Though I might keep the one of the spotted ones as a replacement if it is a doe, just for fun!  Things like this keep rabbit raising fun and interesting!!


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## alsea1 (Apr 21, 2013)

Interesting to say the least


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## sonnythebunny (Apr 21, 2013)

interesting, I've never really read about Californians, but your babies are cute! (and yes this is off topic) what is the spacing for your wire?


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## xa.logan (Apr 21, 2013)

That's super cool! Actually, because of the shape of the uterus it's possible for insemination to occur more than once and even by multiple fathers. Not saying that this is the case but that means a buck can breed twice with two different 'gene-pools', so to speak. It's possible that the first time, the buck 'dumped' his first genes and then the environment ha something to do with the genes he passed down during his second attempt. Rabbits are incredible creatures and their heriditary genes can actually be altered depending on the environment.


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## brentr (Apr 22, 2013)

sonnythebunny said:
			
		

> interesting, I've never really read about Californians, but your babies are cute! (and yes this is off topic) what is the spacing for your wire?


Floor wire in all my cages is 1" x 1/2"  A couple of my pens have overlapping sections of floor wire that may look different.  Lorena's cage is 1" x 1" wire.  Remnant piece from a neighbor that just fit the space I needed in the hutch.  Most of my other cages have 1" x 2" wire on the sides & top of the cages.


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## aggieterpkatie (Apr 22, 2013)

I'm not sure about how strict the breed standard is for markings, but the rabbit on top (the doe?) doesn't have a full dark nose OR feet...so possibly that is the crossed one?  Or she's mostly Californian with something else somewhere back in her line?

Congrats on the babies though, and glad you were able to foster some over to the other doe!


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## DianeS (Apr 23, 2013)

You are right about the Cali coloring being temperature-dependent. They must be at different temperatures in their different nests. It's nothing to worry about, I've had Cali buns that were almost as grey as your darkest one, and it lightened up normally by about 12 weeks (which is also when their ears and nose get darker).  It's a weird gene, but fun to watch!


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## Bunnylady (Apr 23, 2013)

As aggieterpkatie pointed out, these are NOT normal markings for a Californian. There is white on the nose, and a little line of white going up the ear. The feet are completely white. My experience tells me that this rabbit is what in some breeds would be called a broken Himi. This is obviously where the broken gene came from. As the markings on the kits are light, my guess is that this is the ol' "chilled kit shading" showing up, and that it will fade when the kits get older. Crazy!


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## treeclimber233 (Apr 23, 2013)

Looks to me that the doe is probably crossed the an English Spot.  Those babies have definite spots on them.  Not just the broken gene in there. The babies also look like they have a butterfly marking on the nose like an English spot. Temperature does affect the color on a Californian but not until they are 10-12 weeks old.  They do not have color on them when they are that young.


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## Bunnylady (Apr 23, 2013)

treeclimber233 said:
			
		

> Looks to me that the doe is probably crossed the an English Spot.  Those babies have definite spots on them.  Not just the broken gene in there. The babies also look like they have a butterfly marking on the nose like an English spot. Temperature does affect the color on a Californian but not until they are 10-12 weeks old.  They do not have color on them when they are that young.


With the exception of the extreme expression of the Hotot/Dwarf Hotot, every animal with the broken gene* should* have a nose marking (it's a DQ not to); some breeds (like the Checkered Giant and Rhinelander) specify a butterfly, but most don't. As to the spots, anything from a broken Netherland Dwarf to a broken New Zealand can have either a spotted or broken pattern; so spots do not an English Spot make! 

The Himi patterned babies can show color anywhere their skin gets cool, even as newborns. I have had Himi patterned Jersey Woolies, Mini Rex and Netherland Dwarf babies that got chilled as newborns; some wound up with very strong coloring that looked almost like a strange Chinchilla as it grew out.


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