# Appenzells



## totesmcgoats (Dec 25, 2017)

Hey all, long post, question at the end! 

We had a coyote get two of our free-ranging hens a few days ago in the middle of the day.  My husband saw the coyote and we ran out to the barn, but too late it seems.  We have two dogs, but they don't go near the goats/chickens because our electric dog fence doesn't go back that far. It was put in before we had goats/barn. One of the dogs is also a rescue husky (we had him before livestock) and he is a killer.  I don't trust him as he's given me plenty of reason not to.  Anyway, our other dog is an Appenzell Mountain Dog whom we've had for 8 years since he was a pup.  He is great with my kids and really great at patrolling our property.  When we had just chickens he was great with them, but we've never introduced him to goats because of the husky/fencing/other things.  My question is, does anyone here also have an Appenzell and use them for livestock guarding?  I'm curious about your experiences and your dog's temperament.  I think Murphy would be great with the goats, but I'm curious as to other people's experiences before I try and introduce him.  Here's a pic of my old man:


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## Southern by choice (Dec 25, 2017)

First, let me say I have not personally worked with this breed. However it is more or less a herding dog to my understanding.
The size of the dogs being a mid size dog I really do not think it could meet the challenges of coyotes.
People really underestimate coyotes.
Considering her age alone and no experience as a guarding dog and she is not a LGD I think you are risking the life of your dog.

There is a reason Livestock Guarding Dogs are large and they have thousands of years of those traits and genetics, some of course developed from those dogs and refined over several hundred years or so.


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## totesmcgoats (Dec 26, 2017)

Thanks for the reply!  We talked about a Great Pyrenees, but I need to do more research on the breed.  We are only on 5 acres, and my biggest concern is that an LGD would get out and harass/attack neighbor dogs.  In short, aside from knowing that they guard livestock, I don't know anything about their breed/temperment/training needs/etc. What resources would you recommend to learn about the breed? Or any other breeds that you would recommend


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## Bruce (Dec 26, 2017)

Murphy is a good looking boy!

You would need to fence the LGD in BEFORE you get the LGD. Hopefully that would also be enough to keep the coyotes out. But I think you need more than one LGD if you have coyotes that might get into the LGDs' territory.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 26, 2017)

There are many breeds outside of the Great Pyrenees.
I love the GP however too many breeding them that shouldn't and it is so bad now they really are hit or miss. Very sad to say that.
I personally love them. I bred my top male to my Anatolian female because they were my top dogs and the best IMO. I could have bred for purebred Pyrs or Purebred Anatolians but CHOSE the breeding line up for a reason.
All that to say  I love the Pyr/Toli cross.

GP
Anatolian
Maremma ( hit or miss again)
Akbash (not high on my list for small homesteads and really depends on breeding)

There are quite a few others that are good but unfortunately again too many people breeding that don't know what they are doing.
You need a team. If you cannot afford a team don't bother with a getting  LGD.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 26, 2017)

I have 4 GP on 5 acres and have no trouble keeping them in the fence 
They are great guard dogs and have a great temperament


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## Southern by choice (Dec 26, 2017)

OneFineAcre said:


> I have 4 GP on 5 acres and have no trouble keeping them in the fence
> They are great guard dogs and have a great temperament



Yes, yours are. Mine are. Sadly the majority of calls I get it is a whole different story. 
In our region we have lots of goat farms, dairy and meat goats. OFA you would be shocked out how many times a week my vet has pyrs brought in, or calls... then I get calls to see if I know whose they are. The shelters get them in all the time.

Given my signature line- you can see how much I love them but there is still the reality of poor breeding. Inbreeding. Small dogs.
Depending on size and type predators the Pyrs at 75 lbs can't do much ... and we are seeing lots of "miniature pyrs" here.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 26, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> Yes, yours are. Mine are. Sadly the majority of calls I get it is a whole different story.
> In our region we have lots of goat farms, dairy and meat goats. OFA you would be shocked out how many times a week my vet has pyrs brought in, or calls... then I get calls to see if I know whose they are. The shelters get them in all the time.
> 
> Given my signature line- you can see how much I love them but there is still the reality of poor breeding. Inbreeding. Small dogs.
> Depending on size and type predators the Pyrs at 75 lbs can't do much ... and we are seeing lots of "miniature pyrs" here.


We have been really blessed with the dogs
We have Roosevelt and Bella and Marvel has sired 2 other litters of pups with a friend of ours and all are great dogs


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## klcardella (Dec 27, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> GP
> Anatolian
> Maremma ( hit or miss again)
> Akbash (not high on my list for small homesteads and really depends on breeding)


I LOVE my Maremmas!  They do not roam like the Pyrs we have tried, and stay close to the sheep.  They are easy to train with chickens (easier than the Akbash), and have been healthy.  They are good with kids, and have very good temperaments.

I agree about the Akbash and small homesteads.  They seem to need more room to roam, but are a good balance for us with the Maremmas.



Southern by choice said:


> There are quite a few others that are good but unfortunately again too many people breeding that don't know what they are doing.
> You need a team. If you cannot afford a team don't bother with a getting  LGD.



Absolutely!


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## goatgurl (Dec 28, 2017)

I have to agree with @klcardella on this one.  I love my maremmas too and for the same reasons, they don't roam, they are flock dogs that stay with their sheep and goats, have been very healthy.  they have great temperaments and keep all of the critters away from my goats and sheep.  and yes they have been amazing with the chickens and ducks.  I've had Anatolians before and really liked them but like the maremmas better.  also had one pyr who I spent more time looking for and hauling home than she ever spent guarding her flock.  in my humble opinion prys need much better fences than I have.  great guardians but need good fences.
I, like southern would be concerned about the size of your Appenzell and his ability to take coyotes.  his bark will certainly help deter them but if it came down to it he just wouldn't have the size to back up his bark.  introduce him to the goats while he is on leash but I don't think it would be fair to him to try to make him a guardian.  good luck


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