# Training question



## goatsintheopen (Feb 5, 2011)

I am trying to train my goat.. I give him treats to reward him but my question is,  what do I do to correct undesired behavior? :/   I have searched the web for ideas but haven't found much at all. 

 What has worked for you?


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 5, 2011)

perhaps a mild shock collar, but that may breed distrust. I know for most wild animals you simply ignore the behavior and walk away.


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## themrslove (Feb 5, 2011)

What are you trying to train it to do?


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## chandasue (Feb 5, 2011)

Positive reinforcement, repetition, and LOTS of patience.


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## goatsintheopen (Feb 5, 2011)

I am trying to train him to back up and stand back  when I am leaving his pen. 

 He wants to get out so he gets his head (with horns) in the corner of the door and blocks me to where I have to push him back to get out.  But even then..he will put his horns on my calf or put his hoves on my back or jump up on the door.     it is frustrating.  

I whack him  across the horns with a stick and he backs up and away then.   But I don't think this is a good way to handle him..  surely there is a better way.  

Like I said do reward him when he does back away but so far the behavior is still happening.


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## chandasue (Feb 5, 2011)

You could try a squirt bottle with water. A little spritz in the face to get him to back up.


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## julieq (Feb 5, 2011)

We have a small electric hand held shocker that works well for our huge GS puppy (one year old) and also if our bucks get a little too pushy.  One zap on the nose is worth a thousand words (although it's appropriate to say "NO!" at the same time).  And, yes, we do give lots of encouragement and treats.


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## goatsintheopen (Feb 5, 2011)

I do use a water bottle too. 

(_not meaning to ask a dumb question_) Is the electric shocker effective in stopping the pushiness? 

  My goal is to be able to say "back" and have him Back up and actually Stay back,  instead of backing up only to run back to the door again.    so getting my goat to do that...to stay away when I tell him too..this is my dilemma.  :/


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 5, 2011)

goatsintheopen said:
			
		

> I do use a water bottle too.
> 
> (_not meaning to ask a dumb question_) Is the electric shocker effective in stopping the pushiness?   :/


Yes, very effective, but it is important to give a command first in a serious sounding voice so they learn to respond to that and you don't have to keep zapping them.


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## rittert3 (Feb 6, 2011)

is this shocker similar to the hotshot power mite? i have wondered myself if that would work on goats.


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## peachick (Feb 7, 2011)

OHH  yay!  this is a questions I can answer  LOL
(normally  Im the one asking)

Im a dog trainer.  Read up on clicker training...  You want to use positive reinforcement every chance you get.   During a training session  you want to avoid any negative reinforcement.  

In the case of pushing.  I'd probably teach him a good solid "stay" command.  (he cant push through the gait if you tell him to stay  10 foot away from it  

I clicker trained Buckley to jump up on some logs.  Now, every time  I walk towards the log pile,  he races me to it and is up on the pile before  I get there... knowing Im going to feed him on it.

You could do that with your buck...  toss some corn to the same spot (away from the gate) every time you go to the gate...  soon,  he will go to that spot for his treat when you go to the gate...  he will think hes training you to toss the corn


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 7, 2011)

So...first things first...hes a goat...."stubborn as a goats" was'nt said for nothing!!

I would recomend...not giving him a treat for this type of training.  Whats happening is your giving him treats and he dos'nt want you to go..so he gets more treats..beside wanting to escape.  He's got alot on his mind getting treats and dreaming of his great escape..so he's not really learning.

Dont hit..or use electric shock or any negative things..hes a goats...not a 1 ton steer your trying to move.  Spray bottle helps...

Goats communicatons and play generally include head butting or touching heads in one form or another...so if your pushing him back by his head...he will do the same back to you.  

My best advice is to change the set up somehow so he can do that.  All my corral gates and doors pull inwards so I can keep them back with the door as I leave...and they will naturally move back as I am opening the gate cuz its kinda pushing them back.   

Or cough...they completely freeze when you cough..then make your great escape!!!  The other suggestion would be leave when he is engrossed in eating or completely distracted in something.   If your gonna give him a snack, I would give it to him away from the door and leave while hes eating etc...Some goats want what they want...and training dos'nt work...outsmarting them does!!

 Good luck...


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## goatsintheopen (Feb 7, 2011)

Thank you for your replies!  I have enjoyed reading them!  

 You're right about goat stubbornness!!  


_"Whats happening is your giving him treats and he dos'nt want you to go..so he gets more treats..beside wanting to escape.  He's got alot on his mind getting treats and dreaming of his great escape..so he's not really learning"
_
that makes *complete* sense!!  Boy am I ignorant! 

I am going to try coughing..I can't wait to see his reaction..  

and I am going to try throwing the treats away from the fence gate  so he is back eating when I enter and leave.  I don't know why I didn't think of that either!      and the spray bottle will be in my hand.  

I have seen people clicker train their goats on youtube...I am going to see if i can get one.

thanks again ya'll!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 7, 2011)

Your not ignorant!!  You just were not thinking like a goat!!! 

They dont think like us and are motivated very differant than us...I do it all the time and then remind myself that Im dealing with goats!  They dont have emotions and feelings like us..and do things for differant reasons than us.

Goats are very bright...and can be trained to do alot of things.  One of my girls will do the hokey pokey following raisin snacks...sometimes..cuz shes a stubborn goat!!!!  

I pack some of my goats for hikes and they do awesome.  But they all have differant personalities!!

But as you know..when they dont wanna...they dont wanna!!!  

Good luck  I wish you success!!!


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## themrslove (Feb 7, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> I clicker trained Buckley to jump up on some logs.  Now, every time  I walk towards the log pile,  he races me to it and is up on the pile before  I get there... knowing Im going to feed him on it.


You have got to be freakin' kidding me!  
Buckley is my favorite.  Hands down.  I've never met him but I love him!  Oh Buckley!!!


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## chandasue (Feb 7, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> I pack some of my goats for hikes and they do awesome.


Not to highjack the OP's thread but do you know of any good books that talk about training goats specifically for packing/pulling cart? I'm thinking of training the buckling I'm getting to do something on the "off season".


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 7, 2011)

I dont know of any specific books...Im sorry...but this site may help??
They have alot of into on the web about it.  I know in UTAH they do it alot!


http://www.workinggoats.com/?id=218

Its alot of fun!  I use a doe that would sleep in my bed if I let her...where ever I go...shes goes...she is so attached to me...so personality of the goats will matter to.  How well they can be trained.  But I started when mine were young and just took them on walks daily and they learned to follow very early.  That helps.

Next I wanna get my buck to cart as well "off season" cuz they are smart animals and like to have something to do...they are very social and love to be with humans...


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## chandasue (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks! Cool website.


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## goatsintheopen (Feb 8, 2011)

chandasue said:
			
		

> Emmetts Dairy said:
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Highjack away!  LOL  I don't mind sharing  a bit.     The more questions and information about training in whatever area..the better! 
 I am taking  notes.


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## goatsintheopen (Feb 8, 2011)

ooh  and  about the coughing..  I tried that out..  and sure enough, he froze and looked at me like "what in the world?!?"     oh yeah, it was funny!

and as I left the pen, I gave the "back" command and he backed away ..then I laid the treats on the ground like was suggested and sure enough.. he stayed... and  there were no horns or hooves on me!  LOL!!   worked beautifully!  

I guess goats really are smart..here I thought I was training Him but really, he was training ME!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 8, 2011)

goatsintheopen said:
			
		

> ooh  and  about the coughing..  I tried that out..  and sure enough, he froze and looked at me like "what in the world?!?"     oh yeah, it was funny!
> 
> and as I left the pen, I gave the "back" command and he backed away ..then I laid the treats on the ground like was suggested and sure enough.. he stayed... and  there were no horns or hooves on me!  LOL!!   worked beautifully!
> 
> I guess goats really are smart..here I thought I was training Him but really, he was training ME!


  Yay!!!!  Success!!! You know you've become the "Goat Boss"
when you can actually outsmart em!!!!    Cuz goats are smart!!

Thats great news!!! Im glad for you!!!!  Its nice when you can have a good relations with them!! It makes it so nice to tend to them..rather then fighting them off!!!!  

I learned the coughing trick a while ago...its a noise they make when they warn the other goats of trouble about...and sneeze too...but I cant sneeze on demand!!!  It works though!  Done it many times...he looks for you for direction cuz you sent a warning call out.  After Im outside the gate..I let em off the hook and tell them everythings ok!!!  

Just some tricks of the trade!!!!

  Good job


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## rittert3 (Feb 9, 2011)

I'll have to try the coughing thing at the sale next month, sounds like it might come in handy where long term training isn't practical.


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## peachick (Feb 13, 2011)

themrslove said:
			
		

> peachick said:
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ahahaha  I just now saw this...  I will tell him he has a fan club,  Im sure he wont be surprised. 

as for negative reinforcement,  I have mentioned this before....  when Buckley gets  too pushy  I will charge at him stomping my feet.
He's a fainting goat...  so guess what happens?    Chip is my other buck,  he wont faint...  but he will scurry out of my way if I ever have to charge after him....  Wish it worked for the girls too.


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