# fainting goats



## tbarry2185 (Jul 1, 2013)

I am new to goats and have two doeling female goats to start our heard.  At what age do you guys breed fainting goats I have heard everything from 8 months to 18 months?


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## Rocco (Jul 1, 2013)

Personally with my Myotonic (aka fainting) goats I want to wait until they are a minimum of a year old. Eighteen months is better. Myotonic goats are a slow growing breed not reaching full size for about 4 years. My Boers I will breed by about 9 months to a year old.

There are studies done showing that the larger the live weight of the doe, the bigger and better the kids will be. I bought a doeling once that was supposed to be open. Turns out a buck had gotten into her pasture and bred her at about 7 months. Kids were tiny and the doe was stunted.

Also, regarding Myotonics as opposed to other goat breeds, there are a whole range of sizes. Do you know about what the mature size of your does will be (did you see their dam?). And, the buck breeding them should be appropriately sized as well. There are little Myotonic does and HUGE Myotonic bucks that probably should never be put together.


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## JanetM (Jul 5, 2013)

Rocco said:
			
		

> Myotonic goats are a slow growing breed not reaching full size for about 4 years.
> 
> Also, regarding Myotonics as opposed to other goat breeds, there are a whole range of sizes. Do you know about what the mature size of your does will be (did you see their dam?). And, the buck breeding them should be appropriately sized as well. There are little Myotonic does and HUGE Myotonic bucks that probably should never be put together.


Im not trying to high-jack the thread but I have a question please...  when you have a buckling is it reasonable to assume it will be no bigger then the sire? our little guy was wethered at 4months old(weight was 23lb)...the sire is 27in tall at the shoulder(every bit of 100-125lb if not more-3yrs old) the dam 25-26in...can I assume the wether will be 25-26in or do you think he will be smaller?  and I was told they grow slower but how much slower? like by say 6months will I be able to tell a difference in him? 

Once again Im not trying to high-jack the thread...thank you in advance for allowing me to post my questions.


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## Rocco (Jul 7, 2013)

I assume you are talking about a Myotonic wether. The wethers we have kept for a year or so have not grown to be "Buck sized". They will have less muscling, so will be lighter weight, and will more than likely be smaller than their sire. But genetics can be a funny thing. With proper feed and nutrition kids can outgrow either parent and show a phenotype that can surprise the breeder.

But in two months...from 4 to 6 months of age you should certainly notice some growth. Hard to say how much. 

I have seen some really nice built Myotonic show wethers, built like little box cars. At around one year of age they were still substantially smaller than their sire.


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## JanetM (Jul 7, 2013)

Rocco said:
			
		

> I assume you are talking about a Myotonic wether. The wethers we have kept for a year or so have not grown to be "Buck sized". They will have less muscling, so will be lighter weight, and will more than likely be smaller than their sire. But genetics can be a funny thing. With proper feed and nutrition kids can outgrow either parent and show a phenotype that can surprise the breeder.
> 
> But in two months...from 4 to 6 months of age you should certainly notice some growth. Hard to say how much.
> 
> I have seen some really nice built Myotonic show wethers, built like little box cars. At around one year of age they were still substantially smaller than their sire.


Yes I am talking about a Myotonic wether. I can't wait to see him get bigger. We have 2 pygmy/ND cross wethers(23-24in at the shoulder and 50-55lb) about a 1yr old also and I was told by the breeder I got him from he would probably be bigger then them. Im just curious to see how he fills out. I know his sire was very impressive, very well muscled. He had a buddy we are thinking of going back & getting-I think it would be easier for him to have his own buddy than trying to fit in with our other 2.

Do you have only myotonic goats or do you have other goats also?


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## Rocco (Jul 7, 2013)

JanetM said:
			
		

> Yes I am talking about a Myotonic wether. I can't wait to see him get bigger. We have 2 pygmy/ND cross wethers(23-24in at the shoulder and 50-55lb) about a 1yr old also and I was told by the breeder I got him from he would probably be bigger then them. Im just curious to see how he fills out. I know his sire was very impressive, very well muscled. He had a buddy we are thinking of going back & getting-I think it would be easier for him to have his own buddy than trying to fit in with our other 2.
> 
> Do you have only myotonic goats or do you have other goats also?


I have Myotonics, Boers and Myotonic-Boer X at present. I have also had some Nubian and Nubian-Boer X. I love the Myotonic breed though. Good personality and easier to keep and please than others I have had experience with.

If you have seen the sire of your wether that should give you a good indication what your wether can be. I currently have the litter mate sister of a champion wether. Their sire is a Permanent Grand Champion through the Myotonic Goat Registry. This wether is amazing, just rock solid looking.  Basically this breeder keeps his show goats in a "feed pen". They get a LOT of high protein feed and also high quality alfalfa. How you feed them when they are young really makes a difference in what they become in the future.

I have a Myotonic buck that was filled out OK at 18 months (I got him at 14 months of age). He was just OK though. But at two years old he hit another growth spurt and man is he big now. I can hardly get my hand across his neck now and his barrel has increased and deepened a lot. I fed him a daily ration of 20% protein feed and he was on new pasture with lots of great browse. So, it can take a good while to see their full potential.

And I agree about getting his buddy. In the past when I bought goats I almost always bought more than one. It makes is easier to adapt to a new herd when they come with a friend.


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## JanetM (Jul 8, 2013)

Rocco said:
			
		

> I love the Myotonic breed though. Good personality and easier to keep and please than others I have had experience with.
> 
> If you have seen the sire of your wether that should give you a good indication what your wether can be.
> 
> And I agree about getting his buddy. In the past when I bought goats I almost always bought more than one. It makes is easier to adapt to a new herd when they come with a friend.


I have read that Myotonics are easier and actually need less room-do you find this to be true? 

I just have them for pets so they are actually in our back yard...which is area bout 60x60 with a 6x25 and a 6x45 additions running along the sides but they have access all the time to all of it...and my older 2 have horns and so does Clancy...his buddy didnt which is why we didnt get him to start with...but I have been doing more research and it seems there are lots of mixed herds(horns/no-horns) with no problems. 

I really really like Clancy(our myotonic) so far there is just a whole different attitude about him...hes very easy going & just seems to be happy getting some pettings and grazing. I just really want them to be happy and healthy. Im not interested in breeding or showing.

Thank you so much for all your information.


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## Rocco (Jul 8, 2013)

JanetM said:
			
		

> I have read that Myotonics are easier and actually need less room-do you find this to be true?
> 
> I just have them for pets so they are actually in our back yard...which is area bout 60x60 with a 6x25 and a 6x45 additions running along the sides but they have access all the time to all of it...and my older 2 have horns and so does Clancy...his buddy didnt which is why we didnt get him to start with...but I have been doing more research and it seems there are lots of mixed herds(horns/no-horns) with no problems.
> 
> ...


Regarding the room needed question, I think that is in respect to the size of the goats. My Boers do need a lot of room to browse because they are big goats. The Myotonics are relatively smaller and need a bit less room. Myotonics also come in all sizes. There are big Texas Line Myotonic goats and there are smaller Tennessee Line Myotonic goats and there are mini's as well. So, you can tailor your herd to whatever size of goat fits your need.

I have only been into the Myotonic goats for a little over a year, but I have noticed that they tend to hang around the hay feeders longer than the Boers. They stay and clean up the area while the Boers head off to browse. I like that. They are more efficient feeders from the standpoint of not wasting hay. One reason I think that they stay and clean up rather than leave to browse could be the stiffness from the Myotonia. I have several that are very stiff and walking off long distances to browse seems to be the last thing they want to do...poor girls!  

And the horns-no horns....I have gotten rid of the Boer does that I had that were disbudded because they just didn't compete well and fit with the horned does. But, the Myotonics may be different. One of the herds that I bought several of my Myotonic does from was a mixed horned-disbudded-polled herd. I asked the breeder about keeping them together - as he did - and he said it was not much of a problem. The disbudded ones tended to be the problem because they still think they have horns and will knock heads with horned goats.

We currently have one polled buckling that I really want to keep and breed because he is out of some nice parents and is a different blood line than most of my herd does. But the other bucklings he is with are horned and he regularly has bloody nubs from butting heads with his buckling mates. I am hoping he learns he doesn't have horns soon.


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 8, 2013)

Rocco said:
			
		

> Personally with my Myotonic (aka fainting) goats I want to wait until they are a minimum of a year old. Eighteen months is better. Myotonic goats are a slow growing breed not reaching full size for about 4 years. My Boers I will breed by about 9 months to a year old.
> 
> There are studies done showing that the larger the live weight of the doe, the bigger and better the kids will be. I bought a doeling once that was supposed to be open. Turns out a buck had gotten into her pasture and bred her at about 7 months. Kids were tiny and the doe was stunted.
> 
> Also, regarding Myotonics as opposed to other goat breeds, there are a whole range of sizes. Do you know about what the mature size of your does will be (did you see their dam?). And, the buck breeding them should be appropriately sized as well. There are little Myotonic does and HUGE Myotonic bucks that probably should never be put together.


I have a question then about Myotonics, and please Myotonic owners don't be offended.
What is their purpose. Are they just a novelty?   I thought they were a meat goats.  Wouldn't seem to make much sense to have a slow growing breed for meat goats.
I have Nigerians.  We too breed ours at a year old although I would say that most of ours are ready to be bred by 9 months old.  I think that waiting 18 months for Nigerians would be a complete total waste and they tend to get overconditioned if not bred by a year old.
And, there is no inidication that breeding earlier causes kidding problems, under sized kids, or smaller adults.


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## JanetM (Jul 8, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

> I have a question then about Myotonics, and please Myotonic owners don't be offended.
> What is their purpose. Are they just a novelty?   I thought they were a meat goats.  Wouldn't seem to make much sense to have a slow growing breed for meat goats.
> I have Nigerians.  We too breed ours at a year old although I would say that most of ours are ready to be bred by 9 months old.  I think that waiting 18 months for Nigerians would be a complete total waste and they tend to get overconditioned if not bred by a year old.
> And, there is no inidication that breeding earlier causes kidding problems, under sized kids, or smaller adults.


This is definitely a question for someone else...as I only have my goats for pets ...and I just love them all. I cant get over the difference in personalities and attitude. They are all awesome!


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 8, 2013)

JanetM said:
			
		

> OneFineAcre said:
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And that is an absolutely legitimate reason for having them


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## Fluffygal (Jul 8, 2013)

I think when the breed was first created their purpose was the fall guy. Folks mixed them with more valuable livestock. When predators attacked the valuable livestock would get away and the poor fainters became the ultimate decoy.

Since then a lot changed and the mytonics role changed from decoy to meat goats. Their easy going personalities and the fact that they tend to stay in their pens make them nice pets too. With breeders also raising long coated/silkies variety they are now also used as fiber goats.

I have 2 fainters that are pets with short coats. And boy are they super soft! The herd they came from was a mix of silkies fainters and regular fainters. I noticed that my fainters are not into climbing; whereas my other goats (ND & Nubian) bounce off everything.


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## Rocco (Jul 8, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

> I have a question then about Myotonics, and please Myotonic owners don't be offended.
> What is their purpose. Are they just a novelty?   I thought they were a meat goats.  Wouldn't seem to make much sense to have a slow growing breed for meat goats.
> I have Nigerians.  We too breed ours at a year old although I would say that most of ours are ready to be bred by 9 months old.  I think that waiting 18 months for Nigerians would be a complete total waste and they tend to get overconditioned if not bred by a year old.
> And, there is no inidication that breeding earlier causes kidding problems, under sized kids, or smaller adults.


That is a great question, and no offense taken.

There are at least two answers to having the Myotonic breed as a meat goat...

1) Cross-breeding a Myotonic buck to almost any other breed (and Boers in particular) will give 6 to 10 percent more muscling (meat) and a better received kid/goat at the auction house giving the seller a better profit.

2) As quick as full blood Boer kids, or even the first cross Myotonic-Boer, hit the 40-60 pound ideal auction house weight you better plan your breeding down almost to the day to get the best prices. They can literally outrun the market. Or, the slower growing Myotonic will allow you a wider window for your breeding program so you can hit those few times a year that you get the best prices for your kids.

I charted the weights of this last springs kid crop from birth to 90 day weaning age. My fullblood Myotonic bucklings were around 32-33# on average and gaining maybe 1.5-2# a week at that time. My Boer-MyoX bucklings were already from 45# to over 50# and gaining up to 4# a week. The crosses are growing almost as fast as full blood Boers and I need to be more calendar oriented for breeding the crosses in the future for me to get the best prices.


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## JanetM (Jul 8, 2013)

Fluffygal said:
			
		

> I think when the breed was first created their purpose was the fall guy. Folks mixed them with more valuable livestock. When predators attacked the valuable livestock would get away and the poor fainters became the ultimate decoy.
> 
> I have 2 fainters that are pets with short coats. And boy are they super soft! The herd they came from was a mix of silkies fainters and regular fainters. I noticed that my fainters are not into climbing; whereas my other goats (ND & Nubian) bounce off everything.


I have read this also that they originally were the fall guys so the others could get away. And also with my Clancy(fainter) he doesnt do alot of jumping or climbing either but he is the sweetest thing and has a great personality-very laid back...my other 2 (ND/Pygmy crosses) are very jumpy. I love all my goats but if I had to start over again I would seriously consider just having myotonics since mine are just pets but of couse I wouldnt take anything for the 2 I already have.


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 8, 2013)

Rocco said:
			
		

> OneFineAcre said:
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Very interesting.


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 8, 2013)

Fluffygal said:
			
		

> I think when the breed was first created their purpose was the fall guy. Folks mixed them with more valuable livestock. When predators attacked the valuable livestock would get away and the poor fainters became the ultimate decoy.
> 
> Since then a lot changed and the mytonics role changed from decoy to meat goats. Their easy going personalities and the fact that they tend to stay in their pens make them nice pets too. With breeders also raising long coated/silkies variety they are now also used as fiber goats.
> 
> I have 2 fainters that are pets with short coats. And boy are they super soft! The herd they came from was a mix of silkies fainters and regular fainters. I noticed that my fainters are not into climbing; whereas my other goats (ND & Nubian) bounce off everything.


That is interesting too.  
Poor guys


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