# Selling/buying properties, new property found



## promiseacres (Oct 16, 2016)

So we are seriously considering trying to "upgrade" our property. We currently have 4 acres which is adequate pastures but no extra.
 Reasons are 1. More ground with potential hay fields (currently we make hay on shares) 2. Need a barn and shop (husband is a mechanic by trade and hobbies include garden tractor pulling, wood working, ect and while we have shelters for the livestock but we need a better solution for hay storage, tack, definitely could expand our rabbitry ) 3. Would love a place with less traffic and neighbors, we are rural but live on a corner, and traffic moves plenty fast on the paved road. 
4. Prefer a house with a basement 
Obstacles 1. Have to sell current property to have down payment for new property 2. Suitable local properties only come on the market occasionally and the ones within our price range either sell Quickly or need a Ton of work to the house. 
So need a small miracle to make it happen. But I do believe in miracles.  So any tips or "how we did a similar move" story?


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## Bruce (Oct 16, 2016)

That is rough. Not too hard to do a "domino" move when there is an active market for all sizes and types of properties. But when there are few properties selling, not so easy. UNLESS your property happens to be something people will fall all over themselves to get. In that case, you might have a Real Estate agent all lined up with a listing, but not put it out until you find a property you want to buy. Not sure how you convince a seller of the "sell quickly" properties you would be interested in that YOUR property would be under contract within days of listing.

Having farm animals doesn't make it easier since you can't just sell and move into an apartment while you shop.

Um, ideas, thinking, um. May not even be feasible but maybe:


Find a place that is for rent that has at least the minimum of what you need for your current animals. Sell current property.
Sell to someone who will let you stay there and rent the place, hopefully on a month by month basis
Start looking for something to buy. Since you would have the proceeds of the sale in the bank, you can be at the top of the list compared to people who submit an offer with a "and we sell our house at the same time" clause. If you end up with a "needs a ton of work" property, you can work on it while still living in one of those rented places. Easier thought up than done I know!


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## babsbag (Oct 16, 2016)

Maybe find one with a lease/option to buy and then sell yours.


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## Baymule (Oct 16, 2016)

Our home was paid for, so we got a loan on the new place we bought. Finance is a process straight out of the pits of misery and hell. Awful. Lots of things went wrong, wrong, wrong. But we made it through it and couldn't be happier that we moved. Look for HUD repos, you can get a ridiculous deal if you can stand the buying process. Land here is stupid high. At the price we paid, we either got the home free and paid for the land or we got the land free and paid for the home. We closed on the new place in September of 2014, but didn't move until February 2015. We sold our old house, closed on Feb 11, moved Feb 14, it was fast. Then we paid off the new place.

You might not be able to do things the way we did. I like @Bruce 's idea of selling your place and renting until you find what you want. Especially if you need the money from selling your present home to pay down on the new home. You could buy a fixer upper and live in the rented home while you fixed it up.

HUD repos go up for bid for 9 days. Highest bidder is the winner.


http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/we-won-the-bid-bought-the-farm.15593/

http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/call-1-800-com-plain.15782/

http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/signed-papers-on-house-today.16053/

http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/mobile-home-goddess.16253/


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## promiseacres (Oct 17, 2016)

We did rent to get this place of course we were had an acceptable offer on our property when we made an offer on it. The property we are going to look at is empty, I think... 
going to get our place sale ready, some projects need finishing. I used to think it would sell quickly but neighbors similar property (no fencing)has been on the market since July so who knows.


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## promiseacres (Oct 21, 2016)

Ok . Here's more of our story. We drove by 2 properties over the weekend. 1 we scratched completely, needed way too much work, had a run down house, shop, barn was gone except some poles. 1 we looked at last night. Location was nice, but house needs rewired. Frankly doubt it would pass many inspections. That combined with it being overpriced. We are passing at this time.  BUT with encouragement from our agent (frankly she's a friend, helped us get our current property and a horse person so understands our wants and needs) we are getting preapproval for various different loans. Many which need little to no down payments. And I hope we continue having a mild fall so we can get 5,6 projects finished up on our place. These 2 things will have us posed and ready if the perfect place comes up. 
Husband still isn't 100% sold on moving, as it would be a huge undertaking  (he would want to bring every scrap of metal  and piece of firewood  ) but he's mostly willing. He does want the things I mentioned previously of why we want to move. Idk if we don't find anything we may just buckled down and look at building him a shop.


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## Baymule (Oct 21, 2016)

I can so identify with your husband.....I made a LOT of trips, bringing my precious crap with me.  Since then, my DH has stood in awe at me as I have took my crap/scrap piles and built things around here. We hired our 36'x36' barn built because that is above my area of expertise, but the only thing we had to buy was twenty two 20'x2"x6" rafter pieces and the metal for the roof/outside walls.


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## farmerjan (Oct 21, 2016)

In VA you can put a deposit on a place with it being contingent on the sale of your property, usually 90 days...a friend has his place for sale, his wife passed away and doesn't want the headaches anymore and wants to move closer to his daughter & family.  Had an offer on his place, countered and they agreed with the contract being contingent on the buyer selling their place in 90 days....It's 25 acres, big beautiful house, completely redone bank barn, good perimeter fence;  around $350,000.


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## Latestarter (Oct 21, 2016)

Another option is to find a small farm that isn't being used as a farm and see if they'll rent the facilities to you monthly for your animals. Then  concentrate on getting your place fixed to the nines and ready for market. Get it sold for as much as you can. Now, this time of year, is not exactly the ideal time to be putting a house on the market. Holidays right around the corner tend to slow home sales down a bit. But if you work through the winter to have it ready to go late spring for a summer close next year, the market should be perfect. Most families who plan to move try to do it in the July/August time frame to avoid disrupting school schedules. I believe you home school, so not much of an issue for you.

If the ideal replacement home isn't available, see if the buyer will allow you to lease back from them month to month, or find the cheapest place to rent that you can month to month and just wait for the ideal place to come on the market. You can put out the word that you're looking at hubby's work, the church, etc. You never know, word of mouth might find you an ideal place before it's ever available on the open market.


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## promiseacres (Oct 22, 2016)

Well. Talking a different route. Our neighbor has her 4 acres and moduler for sale. We've offered to buy 2 to 3 acres but she won't separate. But talking to our agent, maybe we could swing buying her entire property then selling a small portion of land with her house..... it would give us 2 to 3 more acres.... which would give us our own hay fields to support our herd.


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## Latestarter (Oct 22, 2016)

Now there's a good idea. Of course you could also subdivide to get the extra acreage for your property then rent out the house to generate additional monthly income... In virtually every instance I've encountered (unless the home is completely trashed, and even then...) the rent value of the property should end up being quite a bit higher than the monthly mortgage payments (PITI). Even with the costs associated with renting (repairs/upkeep/record keeping/etc.) you should be in the black every month, but if you choose to depreciate, you'll be in the red for tax purposes. I personally would not do this (depreciation) - speaking from past experience, as when you eventually sell the property you have a lot more taxable profit. But no matter how you look at it, the renter is paying off the mortgage for you. After a couple of years, you should be able to sell it at a slight profit... enough to cover the REA commission and you'll have added the extra acres to your homestead basically free of charge or with a small profit.


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## promiseacres (Oct 22, 2016)

Fyi Poll is a what if situation 1 of these options might happen or not. 
Poll options : 
1. Buy neighbors moduler which is 1484 sq ft, 3 bed, 2 bath home. a 3 car garage detached. Sits just north of our place on the dirt road. Would combine the 4 acres with our pasture and pens. Would be about 6 1/2 acres. Would have to move gates, chicken coop, play set, ect. Sell our current home with yard, about 1.45 acres
2. Buy neighbors property, sell her modelur with 0.75 acres. Leaves us with a u shaped 3.25 acres as hay field, that we add to our current 4 acres. 
3. Get preapproval and get our house ready to sell then wait until we find a local property with a minimum of a liveable house on basement, a barn and shop or garage. Perferablly off the beaten path. (We have only seen 2 of these in 10 months we felt inclined to see in person.)


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## Bruce (Oct 22, 2016)

It all depends on the condition of the house, pricing and zoning. CAN you sell the neighbor's property and .75 acres??? 

Personally, I would give @Latestarter 's idea serious consideration depending on the price and condition of your neighbor's property. Believe me, moving all your cra.. STUFF is a royal PITA unless you are one of those people that lives in a totally uncluttered house and regularly get rid of everything you aren't using. You could rent the house with maybe .5 acres fenced to keep the largest amount of land available for your farm. It costs money to divide/combine land parcels, no need to rush that. 

Unless there is another "boom and bust" real estate failure (which may not have even happened in your area), the neighbor's house and land will be worth more in 10 years than it is now and if it is easy enough to keep it rented for at least as much as you are spending on mortgage, taxes, insurance, repairs, you will be ahead. AND, if you can do whatever incidental repairs for problems that arise, living right next door is most beneficial. PLUS, living next door, you can easily keep an eye on the tenants. Then you can work on improving your current house and if you decide to move somewhere else in the future, you have 2 houses and 2 parcels you can sell, or keep as rentals.


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## farmerjan (Oct 22, 2016)

Is the modular on the place next door nice?  Maybe consider buying it all and renting the house so that it could pay part/or all of the mortgage on the total purchase?  Perhaps down the road someone that can take care of stuff for you if you go away; or as an investment in case you have an aging parent or whomever that would need a place to live in the future?  That would give you the added hayfields, would keep the place intact for future sale if wanted/needed and rental money that would help pay the mortgage. My son bought about 75 acres of a farm but the guy didn't want to sell the house.  Well, he still wasn't working so quickly went through what little he got above what he had to pay off on the mortgage, since now there was that much less collateral and couldn't make the payments again so we had to go through the whole thing and bought the house and 2 acres.  It is rented at present and pays the whole mortgage, taxes, ins. on the house so he didn't take on another payment, on top of the farmland.  Renting can be a pain, but this way the property will be more saleable in the future with the house once again part of it.  There was a right of way to the land through the house piece and the well is on the house property with lifetime rights.  Now, if he were to split it for any reason, he would insist on a new well for the farm property and a different entrance so the right of way could be terminated.  Having the house just made sense even though we sure didn't need the extra payment; hence the rent.


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## Latestarter (Oct 22, 2016)

I turned my first home into a rental property when I bought my 2nd. And then turned the 2nd into a rental when I bought my 3rd. I was at a severe disadvantage as I was active duty Navy, a single parent with 3 very young kids, and a long distance landlord. Despite all that I did NOT lose money in the process, just gained a lot of aggravation... Primarily due to being a long distance landlord. It really sux having to drive 600+ miles whenever something goes wrong or to try and show the property to potential tenants. 

If you remember at the beginning of this journal I REALLY wanted to buy that property in KY that had the 2 homes on it. Even though both were manufactured homes, I could have paid the entire PITI bill (covering both) with the rent I would have received from the one smaller home. I'm still a little bummed that I missed out on that opportunity.  There were several properties down here that had acreage and multiple homes, but all of them were single wide trailers and most were trash.

Just as an aside, I once heard that 80% of the richest people in the world became that way through real estate... Hope your choice works out for you and you find the ideal situation!


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## promiseacres (Oct 23, 2016)

Zoning is ag. House is in good condition. We "might" rent it But our agent does not reccommend it. Rents around here are not very high. When we rented this place we paid $650 / month. Agent felt it was high and our payments are about $20 higher.   When I heard it was available I wanted my Dad to buy it as his eyes are not good, ect. But he doesn't want to tie us down. If he was interested in rented it I would definitely keep it. It's a possibility.


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## Mini Horses (Oct 23, 2016)

As I read this you --  You are saying buy & move INTO the neighbors property  (3 gar garage for DH shop), then subdivide your current house, retaining pastures.   Correct?

If that is correct, most would depend on how much more you like the neighbor's house.   If the only move is a chicken coop and some small sheds......may be a good option.   You would have TWO mortgages for a while.   Moving is a hassle but, it's close & wouldn't involve a lot of packing since you could trailer between both homes.    

I would consider renting one out before I went to cost of sub dividing.  In my area, some division are NOT possible due to zoning & expense is a real consideration, often more than a lot would bring if no house.


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## Bruce (Oct 23, 2016)

promiseacres said:


> Zoning is ag. House is in good condition. We "might" rent it But our agent does not reccommend it. Rents around here are not very high. When we rented this place we paid $650 / month. Agent felt it was high and our payments are about $20 higher.   When I heard it was available I wanted my Dad to buy it as his eyes are not good, ect. But he doesn't want to tie us down. If he was interested in rented it I would definitely keep it. It's a possibility.



And zoned ag, they would allow you to create a .75 acre parcel?? Doesn't sound very "ag" to me.

QUALIFYING THE FOLLOWING - I am NOT an accountant or tax professional!

I would talk to an accountant over the REA with regard to renting the place out. There are tax advantages to rental property the REA may not be aware of. For instance ANY MONEY you spend on improving or repairing the rental is tax deductible even if it is done in preparation to rent it out. Need a new roof? Deductible. Even a replaced toilet seat. Nothing you do to your primary residence is deductible. And if at some point in the future you decide to move into the place next door after it is all fixed up, you don't have to "give back" the deducted expenses. I have NO idea if there is a time constraint between deducting the business expenses and making it your primary home. There SHOULD be, but tax laws being the convoluted mess that they are, maybe that was overlooked.

And there may be other things. At the moment in Vermont, if you replace YOUR refrigerator with a new Energy Star version, you can get a $50 rebate. If you replace a refrigerator in a rental, it is $250. Likely because they want to lower electric usage and a lot of people who are renting a house out don't really care how much it costs the tenants to keep their food cold. But for $250, they might.


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## Bossroo (Oct 23, 2016)

Most improvements that one makes to a property for the previous 6 months are deductible if it is done to get the property ready for sale.  All other improvements are depreciated or capitalized  over the leangth of the expected useful life of the item.


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## promiseacres (Oct 28, 2016)

Well doesn't look like we can buy the next door neighbor's property . But we are now preapproved... if the right place becomes available.  Have put feelers out, have had 2 responses. Neither perfect and both more than we want to spend.... not sure what to think.  In any case we need to finish the roof, ect. I am prepared to wait but keep looking. Husband wants to just stay here and build...


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## promiseacres (Oct 31, 2016)

Ok had a lady contact me. They have a 9 acre property. 10 year old 3 bed, 2 bath house with basement , pole barn, horse shed, fenced and has a hay field . It's a decent location. 
She says they would list it for $170, 000 with a realtor, but without they are very open to offers(I have been frank that its too high priced for us) We really need to stay at a mortgage at $130, 000 or less, we can put down $10,000. (Preapproved for 150,000, 3% down ) I want to see this place... but dh does not as he now wants to refinance and build his shop. 
Thoughts?


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## Baymule (Oct 31, 2016)

Go see it, what do you have to lose? at least go look at it.


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## babsbag (Oct 31, 2016)

I would go and look but I am the curious type. Building a shop does not get you more land.


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## Mike CHS (Oct 31, 2016)

If you don't go look at it you will always have that "what if" in the back of your mind.


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## greybeard (Oct 31, 2016)

babsbag said:


> Building a shop does not get you more land.


No, it doesn't, but it does add value, tho I would never go in debt to build one. I cannot imagine having a farm or ranch of any size without a shop of some kind.


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## promiseacres (Oct 31, 2016)

Yeah well it was 4 acres of grass  when we bought it.... So though it's zone ag.... it was more residential with lots of mowing.  now it's just an acre to mow, pastures and garden


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## promiseacres (Oct 31, 2016)

Well bummer, gal responded back with a "I don't think it's worth much less than our asking price"  so passing on seeing it. People are so very stupid. I tell people our range is up to $150,000 they add 20 or 30 thousand and say they have the right place for us. encourage me to think they are open to offers.... if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. Guess I am calling the bank tomorrow about refinancing....


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 31, 2016)

I'm sorry, that is tough!


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## Bruce (Oct 31, 2016)

Or maybe in a month these people will be calling YOU when nobody pays their asking price


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## Latestarter (Oct 31, 2016)

Sorry to hear... quite a spread between 170K and 140K (130K loan +10K down) even after losing a 6% commission of 10K it still only brings the net down to 160K... 20K higher than you really want to go. I wouldn't give up looking though... You never know when the ideal situation will appear. Is there any just raw land that you could lease or lease to own, or purchase for hay field? Maybe 2-5 acres? I have no idea what land sells for where you're at.


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## promiseacres (Nov 8, 2016)

Well right now we are going ahead and refinancing our current place, and keeping our eyes open. While it may not make the best finacing sense to purchase soon after refinancing we don't know that the right property will come along. We are probably going to be able to finance for a shorter loan therefore definitely ahead of the game. Feel rates aren't going to stay low forever and it's 1 1/2 to 2 % lower than our current rate. Might see about getting a pole building put up, but no concrete or finishing touches as a shop.


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## Bruce (Nov 8, 2016)

What are they charging for points, loan origination fees, other costs and do you need to have a title search done? Those costs are what makes refinancing for a relatively short period of time financially inadvisable.

If you aren't sure you want a bigger payment, you can always get a loan for the length of the rest of your current loan and pay extra principal (it should be obvious but make sure you tell them it is for principal!) monthly. You will shorten the loan and pay less interest while retaining the ability to NOT pay the higher payment for a shorter loan if some financial needs rears its ugly head. If you can make the payment of a shorter duration loan every month, there is no difference in how much you pay total - unless they have lower rates for shorter duration loans. Gotta do the math.


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## promiseacres (Nov 15, 2016)

Well.... still haven't done the application for refinancing....  in the meantime found another property. Major downfall is its 45 minute drive from husband's work.... 33! Acres. 17 tillable, 7 woods. Big barn, old farmhouse, some updates.... closer to our families.... just out of our price range.... Soooo want to see it. Not much info online, a fsbo....  do love our community BUT....


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