# Good Grains



## alba (May 18, 2009)

I have used All Stock feed and even Scratch Grains occasionally. Never tried oats or Black Oil Sunflower seeds yet.  I noticed they LOVE free ranging fallen leaves, weeds and on the bark of fallen trees.
What else do you feed your kids?


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## barefoot okie (May 18, 2009)

I feed sweet feed 50/50...oats and range cubes... goat minerals..baking soda on the side...hay and grass... lots and lots of treats


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## wynedot55 (May 18, 2009)

i feed my  goats 16% dairy feed an 20% layer pellets.an they love leaves if they can reach emm.


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## GrassFarmerGalloway (May 18, 2009)

I thought chicken feed was bad for goats, wynedot.


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## wynedot55 (May 18, 2009)

well if it is it hasnt killed my goats yet.


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## GrassFarmerGalloway (May 18, 2009)

I read somewhere that the overload of calcium gives them urinary problems that can kill them.  Just pointing that out to you.


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## wynedot55 (May 18, 2009)

thanks for the info.


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## GrassFarmerGalloway (May 18, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> thanks for the info.


No prob.


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## bheila (May 18, 2009)

GrassFarmerGalloway said:
			
		

> I read somewhere that the overload of calcium gives them urinary problems that can kill them.  Just pointing that out to you.


You are correct.  Bucks and wethers are prone to UC(Urinary Calculi).  I had my wether get into 2 cups of my all purpose poultry which doesn't contain calcium, it almost killed him.  The vet explain that the feed just sits in their gut and rots it away because they can't digest it.  He was miserable, had diarrhea for 4 days and finally couldn't get up.  I couldn't find a vet to see him until the 4th day.  I was drenching him with Gatorade every hour and the vet told me that's the only reason he lived.


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## GrassFarmerGalloway (May 19, 2009)

bheila said:
			
		

> GrassFarmerGalloway said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, I'm glad I said something.  I knew there was a reason bought that book on dairy goats.


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## Chirpy (May 19, 2009)

> I thought chicken feed was bad for goats


The other issue with goats eating chicken feed is that it's like candy to them and they will quickly overeat and can end up with bloat.   Bloat will kill a goat really quickly.    So, I never let my goats near the chicken feed (and boy that's been a challenge at times...).


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## helmstead (May 20, 2009)

Oh gosh, not the "chicken feed + goats" thing again!


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## bheila (May 21, 2009)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Oh gosh, not the "chicken feed + goats" thing again!


I was wondering how long it would take you to see this


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## kstaven (May 21, 2009)

As I have experienced this topic on several other threads I will REQUEST in advance that people keep this a very civil discussion.


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## pattyjean73 (May 23, 2009)

So what is a good grain?  I've been told not to use sheep/goat feed because something is in it that sheep need but are bad for goats.  Some say they use sweet feed.  I saw at TSC that there is feed for just goats.  I'm assuming that would be good?  It was $12 for 50# which is 1/3 the price of dog food (and dog food only comes in 40# bags now)... but was wondering if there was something even less expensive yet still good for my goats. 

I've also read that black oil sunflower seeds were good for the goats' coat and skin (and good for rabbits too).  Would it be ok to mix 1/2 cup of sunflower seeds in with my grains every few days?


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## Chirpy (May 23, 2009)

BOSS - Black oiled sunflower seeds - is great for goats.  So, yes mix some in with their regular feed.


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## helmstead (May 23, 2009)

Pattyjean, you got it backwards.  Sheep/Goat feed has copper in it, which is bad for sheep (but it doesn't have ENOUGH copper to be GOOD for the goats :/ )

You want a 16-18% PELLETED goat feed, like Purina Goat Chow for instance.  

And yes, BOSS is great stuff.


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## Kindred farm (May 24, 2009)

I use purina goat chow w/ 2-3 handfuls of BOSS and my goats skin condition and weight have greatly improved .  They also have free choice minerals, pasture and hay.  

Off topic but, kstaven--love the blue cow!


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## freemotion (May 24, 2009)

OK, I'm a bit of a rebel, but I feed only whole grains to all my grain-eaters, chickens, turkeys, and goats.

The lactating goat and growing baby get slightly sprouted grain.  In winter, it was sprouted to the grass blade stage.  I built a set of growlight shelves and scrounged some trays this spring so I am ready next winter to hopefully grow some serious greens, too.

Barley and oats for the goats.  Barley's protein skyrockets when sprouted.  Some whole corn added for the chickens and turkeys.  BOSS for everyone.  BOSS is the only reason the guineas come when called, little wild things.

Alfalfa for dairy girls, grass hay for loafers, no grain for loafers.  More alfalfa pellets on the milking stand.

Free choice minerals, salt, and baking soda for everyone.

Lots of good pasture in season.  Lots of veggies in winter, mostly for producers.


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## Farmer Kitty (May 24, 2009)

Kindred farm said:
			
		

> Off topic but, kstaven--love the blue cow!


Actually, his cow is purple (photoshop) and is a holstein/jersey cross.
Mine is a blue and white holstein (naturally), a little on the dark side but, the only one I have. All the rest that come blue and white seem to be bulls.


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## kstaven (May 25, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> OK, I'm a bit of a rebel, but I feed only whole grains to all my grain-eaters, chickens, turkeys, and goats.
> 
> The lactating goat and growing baby get slightly sprouted grain.  In winter, it was sprouted to the grass blade stage.  I built a set of growlight shelves and scrounged some trays this spring so I am ready next winter to hopefully grow some serious greens, too.
> 
> ...


Sprouts do wonders for winter conditioning. Easy to do in bulk once one gets organized.


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## freemotion (May 25, 2009)

Any hints for larger production of sprouts?  I use pails now, plan to switch to trays for the coming winter.  Rinsing and mold have been the issue with larger quantities, for me.


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## helmstead (May 25, 2009)

I have had great luck with oven pans (cookie)...damp paper towel on bottom, seeds, damp paper towel on top, plastic wrap loosely covered.  Them I put them in a warm place.  Have a spray bottle handy in case it drys out.


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## freemotion (May 25, 2009)

Thanks, Helmstead, but that wouldn't work in my situation.  I have no problems getting barley and oats to the early sprout stage, but to get them to actually have a bit of a green blade has been my challenge.  I got some used commercial baking sheets and I built my growlight shelves based on the size of the sheet pans.  I haven't used the sheet pans yet (pasture was growing by then), but tried getting green sprouts in a plastic shoebox size storage tote.  It takes so many days in the cellar, I would almost always get a sour smell and mold.  So I had to feed the sprouts before the grass stage.

But I am determined to figure out the problem, as the health benefits for the critters who make our food are many!  Ideas?


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## Farmer Kitty (May 25, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Thanks, Helmstead, but that wouldn't work in my situation.  I have no problems getting barley and oats to the early sprout stage, but to get them to actually have a bit of a green blade has been my challenge.  I got some used commercial baking sheets and I built my growlight shelves based on the size of the sheet pans.  I haven't used the sheet pans yet (pasture was growing by then), but tried getting green sprouts in a plastic shoebox size storage tote.  It takes so many days in the cellar, I would almost always get a sour smell and mold.  So I had to feed the sprouts before the grass stage.
> 
> But I am determined to figure out the problem, as the health benefits for the critters who make our food are many!  Ideas?


Is the basement a damp one? Maybe a dehumidifier or even a small fan to keep air circulating over them, creating a breeze?


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## freemotion (May 25, 2009)

Yes, it tends to get a bit musty and floods a bit in heavy rains.  A fan is a good idea.  I just hope I remember that come November!!!


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## Farmer Kitty (May 26, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Yes, it tends to get a bit musty and floods a bit in heavy rains.  A fan is a good idea.  I just hope I remember that come November!!!


Write a note and tape it to your equipment somewhere.


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## freemotion (May 26, 2009)

Good idea.....done!


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## Farmer Kitty (May 26, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Good idea.....done!


It's what I would have to do to remember!


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## wynedot55 (May 26, 2009)

come on kitty your not that old


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## Farmer Kitty (May 26, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> come on kitty your not that old


It's my mother's fault! I inherited it from her. Besides, age is creeping on all of us.....


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## wynedot55 (May 26, 2009)

my mind is like a steel trapp.


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## Farmer Kitty (May 26, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> my mind is like a steel trapp.


Hmmm, word association.

Now, back to topic.


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## pattyjean73 (May 26, 2009)

My memory sucks.  I can't blame it on age.  I'm only 35. And I've had memory problems for 35 years.  I blame it on my mother.  She's never had a good memory either and I think she passed that trait on to me.  However, I am somewhat pretty organized.  And I use outlook calendar like i breathe air. I write everything in it and have it send me reminders. This works pretty good for me on the days I remember to look at outlook tasks.  sighssssss

Now back to grains...
I've heard alot of talk about feeding grains to goats.  I've gone out and bought my new herd what I believe to be pretty decent grains.  That is... they're not the cheapest available, not the highest available and they're made specifically for goats.  Now I would prefer some that is labeled MEAT goats specifically but this will have to do for now.

But now I'm confused.  Seems like with more research more questions pop up and more confusion.  There's a topic here about "flounder" and I've looked it up and read several articles about it.  Main cause of flounder is feeding too much grains (as I understand it). I'm trying to fatten up my herd.  Seems to me they are all a bit underweight. I've been feeding alot of small meals of grains to my herd.  Mainly for socialization, but also to help put some weight on them.  It seems like a good 50% or better of the grains are going to waste. 

So I have two questions.
1.  How much grains should I be feeding my meat goats?
2. What is a good way to decrease the amount being wasted?


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## Farmer Kitty (May 26, 2009)

Not sure on how much to feed goats but, in putting weight on any animal, I would advise to go slow and steady. Don't try to push to much as that is where problems arise, IMO. 

As for grain waste? Are you using a feeder of some sort?


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## pattyjean73 (May 26, 2009)

I have a metal trough with 4 sections.  Originally I had it on the ground and of course they walked in it and urinated/deficated in it so I moved it up off the ground.  That seems to have helped to some extent but not totally.  I think I may still be feeding them too much.  I'll start putting only small amounts in there and not add more until they've eaten it all. Maybe that'll help.   Is there a better feeder?

Eventually, I'd like to put inidividual feeder buckets up at "stations" so I can clip each goat to his/her station and feed them that way.  Several reasons for this.  It seems bucks need to be feed differently than does (pregnant, nursing, or milking does that is).  Also, I'll be able to determine which goat eats how much.  But at this time I haven't been able to do that.   I would have a community mineral bucket and a community baking soda bucket... or can I just mix the baking soda in with the minerals?


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## freemotion (May 26, 2009)

If you are feeding grain, you really should consider speeding up the individual stations......it could be a simple thing to set up, as you described.  Better to back off with the grain, or eliminate it altogether, until you can figure this out.  The dominant ones are likely getting unsafe amounts while the more timid ones may be getting hardly any.  Goats also don't like dirty food unless they are starving, so well-cared for goats won't eat food that they've put their own feet into.  That they are wasting food says they are well-fed! 

Put the minerals in one container and the baking soda in another, so they can get what they need, when they need it, on an individual basis.  The two items are for completely different purposes, and they won't be able to self-medicate if it is mixed.  

I use a mineral feeder from TSC that was about $5 and has two compartments that are a perfect size.  All four of my goat share one feeder (for the minerals, I mean), and there is one with just baking soda in my one other stall, whoever is confined still has access to the minerals once a day during turn-out time.

Only my lactating goat gets any grain, and it is a scant double handful twice a day.


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## D Bar J Acres (May 27, 2009)

Cool, a new goat forum!

The term is FOUNDER, not flounder (isn't that a fish?!).  I know for a fact horses founder, think cattle can too.  It is caused by a rich diet, or one that is made rich too quickly, i.e. no grain to two pounds a day.

For grain and alfalfa pellets, we use 4" pvc pipe with caps on each end, then take a jigsaw and cut it in half lengthwise.  We make ours in 4' sections.  Next take a 2"x6" board and make two pieces about 12" long.  Cut a "V" into one end of each.  Then screw these 2x6 boards onto two 2"x4" board, roughly cut 20" long each.  So imagine you'll have an upside down "T" with the 2x4 on the bottom and the "V" end of the 2x6 pointing up.  Then you'll want to take your PVC section and set it onto the wood pieces with the wood towards each end and screw the PVC down to the wood.  You then have little troughs for the goats to eat grain out of.  They last pretty long.  Mine are 4 years old and starting to need replacing of the wood.

ADM has wonderful pelleted goat feed.  Quality ingredients with no animal products or urea.  They have a dairy line and a meat goat line.

You should watch the molasses intake on your goats, something which Purina Goat Chow is loaded with.  Causes acidosis of the gut, which can lead to bloat and death.

Chicken feed is terrible for goats - it has MEAT products in it and some is medicated.  Why even go there?


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## alba (May 27, 2009)

what do you use to sprout your oats ? where do you get it please


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## taraann81 (May 27, 2009)

SO  there is no specific need to feed grain to goats?  I am very new to goats, mine have free choice hay and get a lot of browse.  Am I wasting my money on grain?( they actually don't really eat it anyway but I felt that it was important to them).  They are in good conditon and they are just pets, a wether and a doe.  I never plan on breeding my doe.  So if her condition looks good, there is no reason I must provide them with grain?


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## Kindred farm (May 28, 2009)

I do not feed my wether grain, but he gets everything else (hay, pasture, mineral, fresh water, and a handful of BOSS for a treat occasionally).  He is only 3 months old and just about the same size as his mother--no kidding.  I couldn't imagine if I fed him grain.  BUT, I am NO expert, it is just what works for me.  The vet thinks he is doing great and that he will be huge when he is full grown.




> Kindred farm wrote:
> Off topic but, kstaven--love the blue cow!
> 
> Actually, his cow is purple (photoshop) and is a holstein/jersey cross.
> Mine is a blue and white holstein (naturally), a little on the dark side but, the only one I have. All the rest that come blue and white seem to be bulls.


I need to adjust the color on my monitor!  Farmer Kitty--your cow is very nice looking, I like her natural color and markings.


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## freemotion (May 28, 2009)

alba said:
			
		

> what do you use to sprout your oats ? where do you get it please


I buy a bag of whole oats and whole barley at a feed store when I can't get them directly from the farmer.  It is better from the farmer, because sometimes if the harvest is wet and rainy, the grain will be put in dryers and may not sprout as well or at all.  If you can buy from the farmer, he will know which batch to sell you, as they have some for seed, usually.  If you can get this, get it UNTREATED.  They often treat with a fungicide before planting.

For larger amounts, I use a system of buckets with tiny holes drilled in the bottom and a couple inches up from the bottom.  One bucket with no holes.

I have a series of hooks over my sump pump in my cellar for cold winter sprouting indoors.  

I put the desired amount of grain in the bucket with no holes and soak in cool/room temp water for a day.  I add a glug of ACV to speed the process.  Not too much, you don't want to pickle the grain!  Just neutralize the germination inhibitors in the seedcoat.

Next day, dump that into a bucket with holes, drain, and rinse thoroughly with plain water.  Hang it on the lowest hook.  Fill another bucket to soak another batch.

Next day, do the same.....dump the soaking grain into another bucket with holes, drain, and rinse.  Rinse the first bucket again, and put in one hook higher.  Put today's bucket on the lowest hook.

Repeat.  Each day, when you rinse the older buckets, place them one hook higher.  This way you will know exactly which buckets have been rinsed and which one is the oldest.

Eventually, you will see sprouts.  You can feed them just as the little sprout tip emerges, or you can let it get a little more sprouted.  How long it takes depends on the temperature, mostly.

I find that I can feed my dairy goat more grain this way without her getting "dog poo" and she is also getting the higher protein needed to make milk for me.  It also meets the poultry's need for protein in the winter when there are no bugs for the catching.  And gets rid of the antinutrients and makes the nutrition in the grain more bioavailable.

If I get a bag that doesn't sprout or doesn't sprout well, I just lacto-ferment it and feed it that way.  That is simply soaking for a day with whey from cheesemaking or from draining yogurt or kefir, then rinsing.  Don't use powdered whey products, the fermenting bacteria are long dead.  I can't feed as much grain to the dairy goat this way, and the protein has not gone up dramatically, but the antinutrients are gone and it is far, far more digestible and I get more bang for my feed buck.  It has proven to be worth the trouble.


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## kstaven (May 30, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Any hints for larger production of sprouts?  I use pails now, plan to switch to trays for the coming winter.  Rinsing and mold have been the issue with larger quantities, for me.


To stop mold ... use one drop of FOOD GRADE hydrogen peroxide in your first sprout rinse water.

When we sprout we use a moving water supply 24/7. trays stacked with a few holes in them to allow water to drain down to the next. A small fountain pump is all the water flow you need. Once again I use food grade hydrogen peroxide in the water and never have sour sprouts or mold. If you are doing large amounts of sprouted grains the normal way you really need to rinse them with fresh water daily.


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## freemotion (May 30, 2009)

kstaven said:
			
		

> freemotion said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm.....might just be worth the trouble!  Where does one get food grade hydrogen peroxide?  And do you get your sprouts to the green grass stage?  How long to you let them get, and how long does it take?


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## kstaven (May 31, 2009)

Almost every sprouting seed supplier out there has the peroxide concentrate. BE VERY CAREFUL when diluting it. It can give you serious burns before dilution. I have had my sprouts tall enough to lift the top off a 4 inch deep tray. I really can't say for sure how long they took to get there on that one. 

Normally I only let mine grow out for a week.


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## freemotion (May 31, 2009)

Wow, thanks!  I will be looking for that this summer for this winter's sprouting.  I get my oats from the farmer so I'll have to do a search for the peroxide.  I wonder if regular drugstore peroxide (3%) will do?  I imagine you don't dilute it that much....?


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## kstaven (May 31, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Wow, thanks!  I will be looking for that this summer for this winter's sprouting.  I get my oats from the farmer so I'll have to do a search for the peroxide.  I wonder if regular drugstore peroxide (3%) will do?  I imagine you don't dilute it that much....?


There is a BIG difference between drugstore (topical for external use) peroxide and food grade. Here is a link for you. http://www.sproutmaster.com/peroxide.html


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