# Head stuck in fence!!



## Vonny (Sep 14, 2022)

Fran gets her head stuck in the fence constantly!! All our fencing is new and we can’t afford to supplement with electric fencing or chicken wire .. we have tried removing all vegetation within reach on the other side of the fence but she just keeps doing it! We sometimes have to get her head out of the fence a dozen times a day!! Yesterday we tried to attach poly pipe across under her horns but she had it off within the hour!! Help!! Her previous owners shaved her horns so they are just the right size to squeeze through the fence with some effort on her part but impossible for her to get herself out!!


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## Mini Horses (Sep 14, 2022)

How did you attach the pipe?  Lotta duck tape helps.  The field fence you have is a problem with the top openings, as you see.  BTDT appreciate the problem.


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## Vonny (Sep 14, 2022)

Mini Horses said:


> How did you attach the pipe?  Lotta duck tape helps.  The field fence you have is a problem with the top openings, as you see.  BTDT appreciate the problem.


Hello and thanks for your reply!! We attached with a cross cross of cable ties on both sides. We had thought of duck tape but had read that goats use their horns for heat exchange and here in the tropics we have very hot summers so went with the cable ties. 

She is very small and so far she is always stuck in the three lowest rows of the fence (second from bottom is usual one). This photo is just after her first attempt to dislodge it!


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## Vonny (Sep 14, 2022)

Vonny said:


> Hello and thanks for your reply!! We attached with a cross cross of cable ties on both sides. We had thought of duck tape but had read that goats use their horns for heat exchange and here in the tropics we have very hot summers so went with the cable ties.
> 
> She is very small and so far she is always stuck in the three lowest rows of the fence (second from bottom is usual one). This photo is just after her first attempt to dislodge it!
> 
> View attachment 93486


Although I see on the photo I posted she was 4th from bottom row!!! 😂.. she is usually kneeling when we find her!


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## Baymule (Sep 14, 2022)

Yokes I have seen are in a v shape, a cross bar in front of and behind the horns, then side bars that form a V,  they over lap and hang down a little.


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## farmerjan (Sep 14, 2022)

My friends had over 100 nannies at one time and I used to take care of them when they went away.  They used a stick 3/4 of the way to the end of the horn away from their head... DUCT TAPED......as @Mini Horses said... LOTS of duct tape.  They called them stick heads and the sticks would stay for days or more. 
I just realized you are going into summer as opposed to us... but I still think it is worth the duct tape... she will get just as hot standing out there for an hour when she gets stuck before you might get to her, so the duct tape on the horns should not be a big deal.  I'd rather that, and she can still get to water if she is not stuck... so the heat exchange in the horns should not be a big deal....


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## farmerjan (Sep 14, 2022)

Make the stick longer than the pipe you were using so there is no way she can turn her head and get it through... she has a narrow face so I would put it closer to her head than the ends of the horns but you can experiment and see what might work.  And if I remember they put it on the top of the horns so it hit resistance when their goats tried to put their heads through.....It will "hit" much sooner than when it is on the underside of her horns.  
They can be persistent pains in the butt !!!!!


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## Vonny (Sep 14, 2022)

Baymule said:


> Yokes I have seen are in a v shape, a cross bar in front of and behind the horns, then side bars that form a V,  they over lap and hang down a little.


Trying to picture the V! do you mean with V hanging down under their neck?


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## Vonny (Sep 14, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> My friends had over 100 nannies at one time and I used to take care of them when they went away.  They used a stick 3/4 of the way to the end of the horn away from their head... DUCT TAPED......as @Mini Horses said... LOTS of duct tape.  They called them stick heads and the sticks would stay for days or more.
> I just realized you are going into summer as opposed to us... but I still think it is worth the duct tape... she will get just as hot standing out there for an hour when she gets stuck before you might get to her, so the duct tape on the horns should not be a big deal.  I'd rather that, and she can still get to water if she is not stuck... so the heat exchange in the horns should not be a big deal....


Thanks! That makes a lot of sense re heat exchange i.e. that she will ultimately be better if she can get to water or shade rather than being stuck in the fence! I think it is definitely worth a try.  That's the brilliant thing about these forums .. you are not only getting theory but the practicalities of trying to apply them.


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## Vonny (Sep 14, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> Make the stick longer than the pipe you were using so there is no way she can turn her head and get it through... she has a narrow face so I would put it closer to her head than the ends of the horns but you can experiment and see what might work.  And if I remember they put it on the top of the horns so it hit resistance when their goats tried to put their heads through.....It will "hit" much sooner than when it is on the underside of her horns.
> They can be persistent pains in the butt !!!!!


Again, that makes perfect sense.  As you can see we went low near her head but on the underside. And yes ... VERY persistent pains in the butt!!! lol 

She is also a bully with the other animals so we were trying to make her look a little less scary to them by putting underside but that doesn't help if it doesn't work! 

We bought 2 x wethers in April to keep our lovely doe company but when we picked them up they threw in mum for free (Fran)!!!! She is a very troublesome goat and I have no doubt the sellers spotted newbie goat parents and thought 'come in you galah' (Australian slang for fool!!!)


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## farmerjan (Sep 14, 2022)

She would be finding a one way ticket to be someone else's  trouble...


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## Vonny (Sep 14, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> She would be finding a one way ticket to be someone else's  trouble...


There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that they took a lend of us!! And the thing that upsets me most is that they knew that we were newbies just wanting to love the goats and have our grandkids come to stay and enjoy our zoo!  We can't let the grandies anywhere near her! I would love to get rid of her but I've never given up on an animal before and I couldn't put my hand on my heart in saying she was suitable for anyone to buy.


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## Mini Horses (Sep 15, 2022)

Just give her to someone with different fence.


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## farmerjan (Sep 15, 2022)

No offense please.... but the "feel that you can't give up on her" is just YOUR problem.  If she is not what you want, quit thinking with your feelings and be practical.  Like @Mini Horses said, give her to someone with a different fence or find an auction/sale and just SEND HER.  If your grandkids get hurt, it will be something you will regret.

My son and I kept many cows in the beginning to increase our herd, ones that you had to watch or be careful around;  or were next to impossible to get caught in the catch pens.... and we were both experienced cattle people.  Now, if they are "stupid" they go to the stockyard sale and can be stupid somewhere else. 
And they teach younger ones to follow them.... NOPE, THEY GET SHIPPED.....
They have their own personalities... some can be gotten around and you can get them to work for you and with you.  Some cannot, and spending stressful aggravating time when they are not part of an essential breeding program or something like that is just a WASTE of your time and adds to your lack of enjoyment of them overall.


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## Baymule (Sep 15, 2022)

Vonny said:


> Trying to picture the V! do you mean with V hanging down under their neck?


You tape 2 side pieces from top bars on each side of her head. The side pieces cross under her head, tape them together.


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## Vonny (Sep 16, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> No offense please.... but the "feel that you can't give up on her" is just YOUR problem.  If she is not what you want, quit thinking with your feelings and be practical.  Like @Mini Horses said, give her to someone with a different fence or find an auction/sale and just SEND HER.  If your grandkids get hurt, it will be something you will regret.
> 
> My son and I kept many cows in the beginning to increase our herd, ones that you had to watch or be careful around;  or were next to impossible to get caught in the catch pens.... and we were both experienced cattle people.  Now, if they are "stupid" they go to the stockyard sale and can be stupid somewhere else.
> And they teach younger ones to follow them.... NOPE, THEY GET SHIPPED.....
> They have their own personalities... some can be gotten around and you can get them to work for you and with you.  Some cannot, and spending stressful aggravating time when they are not part of an essential breeding program or something like that is just a WASTE of your time and adds to your lack of enjoyment of them overall.


Really good points and thank you! I totally ‘get’ what you are saying! A hard lesson for a newbie but it makes perfect sense!


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## Margali (Sep 17, 2022)

I would sell her for not being safe with grandkids. Full disclosure to new buyer but sell her.

If she was PERFECT except getting horns stuck, I would look into vet dehorning. I know it's done under sedation and with control of blood loss. That's all I know though.


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## Baymule (Sep 17, 2022)

I backed up and reread the posts. Can't let grandkids near her? SELL her. Why keep an animal that is such a bucket of trouble, AND not safe with the grandkids? Absolutely not. 

I raise sheep. I had a mean ram, his name got changed to Ramburger and he was the star of many meals. I even changed breeds, no more meanies for me. We drove 1400 miles round trip to buy a ram I knew was a sweetheart, 4 years ago, and he has never disappointed me. As a toddler, my youngest could hug him, hang on him and he was and is the BEST.  

What those people did to you is wrong. Just plain wrong. Take her to an auction and get rid of her. She is obviously set in her ways, you are not going to train her out of it, nor are you going to "save" her from herself. Or take her to slaughter and have some goat burger, it is very good. Free meat! She is keeping you from enjoying your farm and keeping the grandkids from enjoying it with you. I will not keep a mean, fractious animal on my farm.


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## Vonny (Sep 19, 2022)

Baymule said:


> I backed up and reread the posts. Can't let grandkids near her? SELL her. Why keep an animal that is such a bucket of trouble, AND not safe with the grandkids? Absolutely not.
> 
> I raise sheep. I had a mean ram, his name got changed to Ramburger and he was the star of many meals. I even changed breeds, no more meanies for me. We drove 1400 miles round trip to buy a ram I knew was a sweetheart, 4 years ago, and he has never disappointed me. As a toddler, my youngest could hug him, hang on him and he was and is the BEST.
> 
> What those people did to you is wrong. Just plain wrong. Take her to an auction and get rid of her. She is obviously set in her ways, you are not going to train her out of it, nor are you going to "save" her from herself. Or take her to slaughter and have some goat burger, it is very good. Free meat! She is keeping you from enjoying your farm and keeping the grandkids from enjoying it with you. I will not keep a mean, fractious animal on my farm.


I want to see your new Ram! My Boof is also a total sweetheart (dorper x damara)! 

Fran is leaving tomorrow!!! I’ve convinced the original owners to take her back!!

The photos are my Boof and his lady lamb!


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## Vonny (Sep 19, 2022)

Vonny said:


> Fran gets her head stuck in the fence constantly!! All our fencing is new and we can’t afford to supplement with electric fencing or chicken wire .. we have tried removing all vegetation within reach on the other side of the fence but she just keeps doing it! We sometimes have to get her head out of the fence a dozen times a day!! Yesterday we tried to attach poly pipe across under her horns but she had it off within the hour!! Help!! Her previous owners shaved her horns so they are just the right size to squeeze through the fence with some effort on her part but impossible for her to get herself out!!


Thank you all for giving me sage advice and the courage to do the right thing! Fran is leaving tomorrow! 😘


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## farmerjan (Sep 19, 2022)

Just read where you are sending Fran back to her original owners.  I guess that is best for you... she would have just gone to a sale if she were mine... unless you had a prior agreement.  But regardless, she will be gone and not causing trouble at your place and the kids can safely enjoy the goats too now.


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## Baymule (Sep 19, 2022)

You are making the right decision to take that goat back to her previous owners. Farming is not a Walt Disney experience. An animal like that is not one you want on your farm, disrupting the whole place making everyone miserable. Recognizing that is sometimes hard,  but you have to look at the overall farm. Fractious, mean, bad behavior animals have no place on a small farm. 

We got Ringo 4 years ago from @Mike CHS and his wife. Absolutely the sweetest ram on earth. Granddaughters are safe with him. This was 2 years ago, my youngest granddaughter was 4. THIS is why no mean animals on my farm! 






This is Ringo and Sheba, my Anatolian LGD. They are buddies. 





This is Cooper, newest ram, as of a week or two ago. @Ridgetop and her DH hitched onto my trailer and we went to Tennessee to @Mike CHS to bring Cooper to Texas. Fun trip! Copper is also a calm gentle ram, has excellent genetics and will be a wonderful addition to my flock.


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## Baymule (Sep 19, 2022)

There is a member here, The Old Ram Australia that is building a composite breed to fit Australia. His Facebook page is









						AUSTRALIAN PAINTED SHEEP,DISCUSSION GROUP | Facebook
					

In Australia we are lucky in that we have a broad range of breeds from which we can produce an animal which is hardy and can withstand "difficult times" when required.we can produce "Painted Sheep"...




					www.facebook.com
				




His thread here on BYH






						A NEW DIRECTION FOR THE OLD RAM
					

G'day to you all.After almost 20 years breeding our line of Suffolk’s we will over the next 12 months sell almost all of the flock and transition to a composite Hair flock. Starting from “scratch “by  purchasing small lines of ewes and suitable rams along with some genes of our Suffolk’s we will...



					www.backyardherds.com


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## Ridgetop (Sep 19, 2022)

Your experience is why we disbudded all our goats as kids.  Except for the bucklings that went to auction at 2 months and brought more money with horns and uncastrated.  Anything with horns is bad for fences.  If she was larger and more powerful she could really tear up the fence.  Another thing we noticed with horned goats (we had a couple Boers we bought to start our herd) was that they were more willing to fight each other.  

So glad you are sending her back to the previous owner.  In future, just send the animal to the auction.  You need not feel you have to warn anyone about any problems at the auction.  Auction animals carry no guarantee since that is where all the culls end up.


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Sep 21, 2022)

We would have sent her to freezer camp. I have a buck now, who's previous owner said he had to go. I thought it was because she needed fresh blood in her breeding program, but the reality is, she just couldn't handle him. He's incredibly skittish. Not mean, but I can't get close to him, so in the 10months I've had him, he hasn't had any health checks, no grooming, including his hooves that were bad, to start with, and his whole coat (Nigora for their fiber, and my breeding program) went to waste, because I couldn't collect his fiber, when he rooed. So, he's getting one more chance to submit. I have a friend who has broken goats, donkeys, horses, and miles of their skittishness. If it doesn't work, he's going to freezer camp, next month. I won't pass him off to another breeder, and don't want behavioral difficulty bred into my flock. In your case - sending her back where she came from was a great solution.


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## Baymule (Sep 22, 2022)

@Nommie Bringeruvda Noms  that is a wise decision. Just like all people can't be our best friends, or some people we don't want as a friend at all, all animals are not going to "fit" our farm. Accolades to you for not passing on a problem animal.  Hopefully your friend can calm the buck down.


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Sep 22, 2022)

It's what I'm hoping for. But, she isn't going to do it - she going to coach me through it. I might as well learn, so if/ when it happens again, I'll be able to start the training, right away, rather than having to wait until she can get away from her chores & life. That is one very busy lady (homesteader with livestock,  military vet active w VA, caregiver for her dad, vet tech, dog fosterer & trainer, and therapy dog owner, visiting nursing homes & rehab centers.) I love to pick this young lady's brain! She's brilliant.


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Sep 22, 2022)

And, thank you!


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Oct 19, 2022)

Sadly, we had to put him down. 😢


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## Baymule (Oct 20, 2022)

I’m so sorry!


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Oct 20, 2022)

Thank you. I'm mostly angry with the woman I bought him from. But, I blame myself, too. I tried, but feel like I failed him, horribly.


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## Baymule (Oct 21, 2022)

Nommie Bringeruvda Noms said:


> Thank you. I'm mostly angry with the woman I bought him from. But, I blame myself, too. I tried, but feel like I failed him, horribly.


Don't beat up on yourself. I say that, but we all do that when we lose an animal. You question yourself and use "what if" to beat yourself with. Just know you are not alone, we have all been there. It hurts.


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