# Angus vs. Highland ?



## Mike Fronczak (May 13, 2013)

We have 3 mature Highland cows & a Bull.  When we bought the cows they were "bred", the guy had sold his bull early in his herd dispersal, so he borrowed the neighbors Black Angus bull, we ended up with 2 heifers & a bull calf (now steer) last season, that are half & half.  My question is they seem higher strung, (examples; less respectful of the fences, begging for grain (we primarily feed grass/hay)).  Is this a breed trait coming out or just the age ?  They are between 10-13 months old now.


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## WildRoseBeef (May 13, 2013)

IMHO, could be a breed trait.  Some Angus cattle can be pretty high-strung and grain-starving than other bloodlines.  

I think you already have a plan for them, but if I were you, I'd get rid of the heifers along with the steers.  But, a bit of hybrid vigour from the cross may produce some good meat from those animals...


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## jhm47 (May 14, 2013)

There are high-strung cattle in every breed, and it is definitely genetic.  Angus and Angus crosses are more high strung than my straight Simmentals.  Just my observation over the years.  Not picking on Angus, they have many great traits.  If you see an AI catalog, you might notice that most Angus have a "docility" trait.  This varies greatly among the many bulls available.  Personally, I have no experience with Highlands.  Nearly all the ranches around here raise Angus and Angus crosses.  In my current job, I see thousands of cattle each year, and interact with nearly all of them in some manner.


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## Rachel.And.Yue (Jun 2, 2013)

Highlands like Dexters are usually a very docile breed. We raise Irish Dexters and have come across highlands more then once. They seem more like the gentle, calm Dexters then our Angus and Angus cross cattle.

But in all breeds you will get a more high strung animal, especially if they are raised a certain way. Ours are all very friendly but only one cow and my bull are a bit more energetic. We also got one cow that was barely handled so she is very high strung

Angus cattle are high strung ish depending on who they are crossed with


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Jun 3, 2013)

We had one Angus cross heifer that was just down right high strung crazy.  You could see it in her eyes.  She didn't last long here.  One that came from the same place,  Angus cross when he was younger was high strung out of fear (if that makes sense)  he was very leary and nervous - everyone was out to get him.  Now that he is older and has "been around the block" a few times, he is actually our best steer, but is still leary of small children.  Very different personality compared to our Herefords.


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## GLENMAR (Jun 4, 2013)

I picked Highlands, but now my problem is how to get my cow bred. There are not as many of those around.


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## Rachel.And.Yue (Jun 4, 2013)

GLENMAR said:
			
		

> I picked Highlands, but now my problem is how to get my cow bred. There are not as many of those around.


That will be a big problem when you choose a breed like this. Especially finding ones not closely related. Keep looking around. Sometimes there is a private farm that has a breed you are looking for but you never see them advertised. I know we have found some breeders just from driving around our area and watching what we pass.

We have the same problem with our Irish Dexters. We love the breed, raise registered stock but we are now having to look further then we would like for ones not related. Sadly we might have to get some non registered cows (but ones that CAN be registered if we feel like doing a lot of paper work, DNA tests etc.).

Forgot to mention in my last post, although it probably does not matter now, but our Angus crosses are not high strung. They can be a bit when spooked or have not been around humans as much as the others while growing but other then that they are friendly cattle. We crossed a Registered Angus bull to our Hereford x Angus cows last year so this year's calves are more like the Angus temperament. Their dams however took mostly the Hereford temperament. We have also crossed an angus with a dexter before and the resulting bull calf was a nice boy to be around.


Good luck finding the right bull!

Rachel


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## GLENMAR (Jun 5, 2013)

Mine are not registered, and this seems to be a problem with some local Highland breeders. They don't want to flood the market with
low quality stock. I don't really understand this with cattle, I just want to raise 1 calf a year for my own freezer. I am not interested in selling
live cattle to anyone else, but I do like this breed.


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## Rachel.And.Yue (Jun 7, 2013)

GLENMAR said:
			
		

> Mine are not registered, and this seems to be a problem with some local Highland breeders. They don't want to flood the market with
> low quality stock. I don't really understand this with cattle, I just want to raise 1 calf a year for my own freezer. I am not interested in selling
> live cattle to anyone else, but I do like this breed.


If you are just breeding one calf a year for your own freezer then you can go ahead and cross your cow with another breed. If you want a bigger sized calf go with angus or something similar. If you want to stay small, go with a dexter or dexter like breed. The temperament of the calf will depend on the personality of both parents.

Did you explain to the local Highland breeders what your plan is? Are there any near you with non-registered stock who will not have a problem with this?

Rachel


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## Mike Fronczak (Jun 8, 2013)

Rachel.And.Yue said:
			
		

> GLENMAR said:
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Excellent advise.  We got really lucky when we bought our bull he is the sweetest of all our cattle, I can already see his disposition in his calves which are all less than 2 months old, they are more friendly, have not been as disrecpptful of fences as last years, they are still rambunctious but all the calves have been when young.  It's going to make for some tough decisions going forward as to keeping him or his daughters going forward.  
The guy we bought him from I would never deal with again knowing what I know now. He and the two heifers we bought with him were what I would consider abused/mistreated he is the only one of the three we have left on our farm.  Last summer was intresting watching him mature/grow/fill in, seeing him now he barely looks like the same animal.


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## Rachel.And.Yue (Jun 9, 2013)

Mike Fronczak said:
			
		

> Rachel.And.Yue said:
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Thank you. Always nice to hear about a bull with a great temperament. Not all bulls are untrustworthy as most farmers will tell you. In my experience it is the bull that passes on the personality the most. We have had mean bulls here, (mostly Herefords, Angus and Charolais), but luckily the gentleness and calm personalities of our cows rubbed off enough on the calves that they have all been friendly. We have also had some great bulls here that their calves are probably the best we have had.

My own bull is the most gentle bull I have ever seen. I bought him as a calf, brought him home barely handled as a weanling, and just over the winter he had bonded so well with me. I can go up and rub all over that bull even now that he is fully mature and in with his cows, whenever I want. Today we had some visitors at the farm so I went up to my bull to show them just how easy he is to work around. They found it amazing that I could walk up to a bull, while he is laying down, kneel next to him and rub him all over. These people had always been told that bulls are dangerous and to never trust them. I raised him similar to how I raised my stallion. If I use a certain tone in my voice when saying his name he knows to stop whatever he is doing. So far he has passed on his good traits to each of his calves.

But all bulls are different and some breeds have more aggressive ones then others. My bull is an Irish Dexter. The sweetest guy you will ever meet but the Dexter bull we had when he was brought home is one that could not be trusted. Around humans or animals. This bull went through 3 fences, the long way around our property, just so that he could attack my stallion. Almost killed him too, so right after that he was sold. I suspect that he was an abused bull considering where we got him. That is one place that we will never go near again.

And not just bulls. I have seen many mean cows too but that is usually just in how they are raised.

My suggestion would be to look at how the bull is around people etc. and then look at his offspring. But do not just assume that because his offspring are great that it came from him. Like I stated before, we have had some mean bulls but our cows passed on enough good genes that the calves were great.

It is all a game of chance really when just starting.

Rachel
PS hope I am not rambling lol


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## jhm47 (Jun 9, 2013)

Bred 107 heifers for some customers on Friday.  One of them had a story to tell about his experience with a bull.  This bull had been perfectly gentle for the 4 years that they had owned him.  One day last week, they were moving some heifers from one pen to another, and the bull got agitated suddenly.  He ran to the opposite side of his pen and charged at the gate on the other side.  Hit it, broke off the two railroad ties that were holding the gate, and charged my customer, who leaped into the back end of his pickup.  The bull hit it broadside and pushed it about 15 feet, nearly knocking my friend out of the back end.  The bull turned back, ran into his pen and stood there like nothing had happened.  This all happened in the space of less than a minute.  Now, this customer has about 400 cows.  He has raised cattle all his life, and knows how to handle them.  He has had countless bulls, and rarely has had trouble with them.   This was an expensive bull that he used on his best cows, and he never had a bit of trouble with him before.

I cringe when I hear about people "petting their bulls all over".  It just takes one split second, and a person can be hurt badly or worse.  No matter how gentle they can appear, they are dangerous.  A bull should never be made a pet.

FYI:  The bull was hauled to the local sale barn.  He weighed 2550 lbs, and brought $1.03 /lb.  The $2600 paid for about half of the damage to the pickup, which needed a new door and front fender.


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## Cricket (Jun 10, 2013)

Glenmar--did you look at AI sites for Highland semen?   I've seen that they have both Highland and Galloway available now. 

JHM47--have you ever considered writing a 'sticky' thing for the cattle section on AI?  Including what shots you can give to induce heat?  Or if you've written it up in a thread, could we find it and move it to the sticky section?


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## GLENMAR (Jun 10, 2013)

I have seen some semen for sale. I need to get a catch pen built first. This cow is 6 yrs old. I was advised to find a bull that would 
produce low birth weight calves. I would need a Highland or Dexter. She may also need a few shots to start her cycling. She has never been bred.
I emailed one AI tech who advertised on craigslist, but he never called me back after saying that he would get me  price.


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## Rachel.And.Yue (Jun 11, 2013)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> I cringe when I hear about people "petting their bulls all over".  It just takes one split second, and a person can be hurt badly or worse.  No matter how gentle they can appear, they are dangerous.  A bull should never be made a pet.


Technically most animals should never be fully trusted. They can all do lasting damage, some more then others. 

I do not "cringe" as you say when I see and hear about people petting their bulls all over, as something bad can happen in many different species. After all, people raise horses to accept being touched all over. Including the stallions. I raised my own stallion to like being touched so that there is less chance of him doing anyone harm. That is why I trained my bull in the same way. There is less of a chance to get attacked when the bull is used to human contact then if you left him alone because "he is untrustworthy". I hate when people judge a species/type of animal based on what most people say about them (with some exceptions such as piranhas!) . After all, look what happened to the pit-bull breed. All the pit-bulls I have met/worked with have been amazing dogs but because of certain situations they have a bad rep. And Arabian horses as well are considered the "crazy" breed. It is all about how the animals are raised and their genetics. Like I have posted before, responsible breeding is a must.

We do not buy a bull that we cannot work around and any we have not raised ourselves are not completely trusted. I do not smother my bull with attention or treat him as a pet and quite frankly large animals, such as cattle and horses should never be considered a "pet". You are just asking for trouble if you treat them like a dog. They were not bred to be pets.

Anyways we are getting off topic here.

Getting semen in order to breed your cow is a good idea if you can afford to do it. You have more options this way since it is cheaper to get the semen then to ship a cow/bull. But the vet costs of inseminating the cow can be expensive.

Good Luck!


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## greybeard (Jul 13, 2013)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Bred 107 heifers for some customers on Friday.  One of them had a story to tell about his experience with a bull.  This bull had been perfectly gentle for the 4 years that they had owned him.  One day last week, they were moving some heifers from one pen to another, and the bull got agitated suddenly.  He ran to the opposite side of his pen and charged at the gate on the other side.  Hit it, broke off the two railroad ties that were holding the gate, and charged my customer, who leaped into the back end of his pickup.  The bull hit it broadside and pushed it about 15 feet, nearly knocking my friend out of the back end.  The bull turned back, ran into his pen and stood there like nothing had happened.  This all happened in the space of less than a minute.  Now, this customer has about 400 cows.  He has raised cattle all his life, and knows how to handle them.  He has had countless bulls, and rarely has had trouble with them.   This was an expensive bull that he used on his best cows, and he never had a bit of trouble with him before.
> 
> I cringe when I hear about people "petting their bulls all over".  It just takes one split second, and a person can be hurt badly or worse.  No matter how gentle they can appear, they are dangerous.  A bull should never be made a pet.
> 
> FYI:  The bull was hauled to the local sale barn.  He weighed 2550 lbs, and brought $1.03 /lb.  The $2600 paid for about half of the damage to the pickup, which needed a new door and front fender.


Worth seeing in print again!
I'm glad my beefmaster bull is standoffish--he moves away from when I get close and that's how I like it.  I don't want to pet him and I sure don't want him petting me. I can work him ok, but that's as close of a relationship as I want. 

It happens a lot more often than people might think. A little reading material for those who like to get close and personal:
(these are people who have been around cattle most of their lives)
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=84693


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