# Mastitis questions...UPDATE...With pictures!



## chubbydog811 (Apr 19, 2010)

None of my goats have it, but I am looking into buying a doe that does/did only on one side. By the sounds of it, it was a mild case of it.

The owner said she has gone through the treatment, and is clearing up, and should be good in a few weeks...

Is there anything I should be worried about in buying this goat?
She is a 2 y/o Lamancha with papers (yay! hopefully my first papered goat??)...
Is she more likely to get it again now that she's had it once? Will this be a huge issue with getting her? Or is it something I can prevent with a clean/dry run and barn, cleaning before/after milking, and a dip?

She is exactly what I have been looking for...I just want to make sure I'm not biting off more than I can chew.
Also, is there any other info or advice that can be offered? I have done some research, but I can't seem to find the questions I am looking for!

Thanks in advance


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## ksalvagno (Apr 19, 2010)

I believe once they have had it, they are more prone to it. To be honest, I would be very leary  of buying a doe that currently has mastitis. What has to be done yet to make sure it is cleared up? Has she had it before? Sometimes even with very clean practices they can get mastitis.

I applaud the owner for being honest with you though.


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 19, 2010)

By the sounds of it, she has gone through the penecilin and such for treatment - finished it, and is now just milking out the rest of the infection ? I think is was she said?. This was her first time having it. 
I really like this goat, but after researching a little more, I am getting more discouraged.
She said it was clearing up, so that is why I was still thinking about it...even if it means extra work keeping everything rediculously clean..


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## Roll farms (Apr 19, 2010)

I wouldn't.   Not worth the risk of it being chronic and the extra hassle / expense of treating it.

Just my 2 cents.


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## aggieterpkatie (Apr 20, 2010)

Eh, I don't really think I'd worry about it.  Who knows what caused it.  It could have been anything from a bruised udder to lack of proper sanitation when milking.  Cows sometimes get mastitis once and never again.   If I liked the goat and the owner said it wasn't chronic (and I trusted the owner), I'd buy the goat.


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks guys,
I think I'm going to email her and ask the extent of it again (to make sure I heard right)...I'm thinking I might say no, but we'll see.

Thanks again!


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 20, 2010)

Just wanted to update - I asked the owner how it came on, and what the vet said...

She said it was because her kid bit her too hard...It was a very mild case, and they caught it right away. She also said her vet told her there isn't much chance that she will get it again (unless improper milking methods are used of course), and she should be good!

That makes me feel better...So I think I am going to go with it...

I'll post some pictures if all goes well!!


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 25, 2010)

I brought the girl home today - not totally because I was comfortable with her issue, but because I felt so bad for her...

She is incredibly skinny (I cant put enough emphasis on this...probably not the worst you guys have seen, but pretty bad even for a goat), her udder is hard as a rock on the bad side, and she is wicked hungry (more than a normal goat)...
You can feel almost every single bone on her body - even her neck/head. When I looked at her, her sides were caved in, and she was desperately picking for food...With her awesome personality, I just couldn't bring myself to say no  She reminds me so much of the girl I lost last month! She has such a bright and happy attitude!

I'm thinking I will probably see if I can bring her to the vet tomorrow and get her udder checked out...We tried milking her, and NOTHING came out...I almost think she is dry, but I thought at least a few drops would come out when we tried? The owner said she was getting a quart a day from her??

The lady said she was feeding her 3 cups a day of dairy pellets. It didnt look like there was free choice hay (she filled out in the matter of 5 hours after being here with constant hay!)...And she was on a dirt plot.

Does anyone have any recommendations for her? I am going to feed her a 1/2 cup of the pellets, and 1/4 cup of the sweet feed 2ce a day, so we can start switching her to the sweet feed (very slowly of course). She has free choice hay - it isnt 2nd cut...Its between a fine and course, nice first cut. And she is going to get hand grazed a few times a day to build her up to going out in the portable pasture. Definitely going to dry her up, and let her build some weight over the summer before breeding her again...

I looked up some treatments for mastitis...Does this look like something any of you would feed?

"The treatment of mastitis in goats may not always be satisfactory, because the organisms causing mastitis in goats are among the most difficult to kill with medication.  the best Natural treatment, is to give 2 tablespoons of raw apple cider vinegar, twice daily. Add the following herbs to the animals diet. Mix any or all of the following, and give one handful of the mix, twice daily, for 7 days.  Thyme, Garlic, Rosemary, Oregano, Sage, Mustard seeds."

Anyway, I'll get some pictures of her tomorrow...Ran out of time today!


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## ksalvagno (Apr 25, 2010)

Congratulations on saving that girl. I know it was a rescue and that was great of you to do. ACV is good for animals anyway. I haven't looked into a natural mastitis remedy so I don't know about the rest. There was another thread on mastitis in the Natural goat section so you may want to check that out. She sounds like a vet trip is definitely in order. I would have a fecal done and make sure they check for coccidia. Good luck with her.


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 25, 2010)

Thanks! I'll check that out in the other section.

The sad part is, all of her dwarfs looks awesome...It was only the 2 lamanchas that looked gross, though this girl was worse off...The girl I got kidded in Feb., but I would have thought she would be recovered by now?

Definitely going to get a fecal, ect done. Make sure nothing is going on that shouldnt be...She is going to be an amazing goat when she is healthier, I have a feeling...I bet she will have a nice udder next year after she kids too if she can get back up to speed 
It's rather small and sad looking right now, but I think it has potential! Especially since this was her first kidding.
Anyway, thanks again!


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## aggieterpkatie (Apr 26, 2010)

Does she have a fever or is her udder hot?  I like the idea of using natural treatments, but honestly if it is as bad as it sounds (you said her udder was hard on that side) I'd go ahead and treat with antibiotics.  I'd get some Today (most feed stores carry it, or call your vet).  You can also send in a sample (if you can get anything out of that side) for a culture to see exactly what it is you're dealing with.  

I'd also apply warm compresses and use a minty udder balm.  Good luck with her.  Could be that half of her udder is just done and the lady didn't tell you.  Either way, sounds like the poor old girl is better off now!


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks for that! I cant find my thermometer...so I cant tell on the temp (dont you love how it goes missing when you need it??)

I was able to get her milked this morning. I think she was just stressed from the move? 
I drenched her with 12ml of ACV, and let her be for about 20 minutes while I milked out my other goat, then did a warm compress, and squeezed a little harder, and it started coming out (yay!)... I have Pen. on hand, so if it seems to get worse, I'll start that up.

It is the top part of her udder, on the left side that is hard. The bottom is pretty pliable... Does that mean anything to anyone? Temp wise on the udder, it feels normal compared to my other goat.

Anyway, I'm going out to take some pics in a few minutes, so they should be posted soon!


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## aggieterpkatie (Apr 26, 2010)

chubbydog811 said:
			
		

> Thanks for that! I cant find my thermometer...so I cant tell on the temp (dont you love how it goes missing when you need it??)
> 
> I was able to get her milked this morning. I think she was just stressed from the move?
> I drenched her with 12ml of ACV, and let her be for about 20 minutes while I milked out my other goat, then did a warm compress, and squeezed a little harder, and it started coming out (yay!)... I have Pen. on hand, so if it seems to get worse, I'll start that up.
> ...


Is the milk discolored or lumpy on that side?


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 26, 2010)

It is kind of clear-ish and clumpy...


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 26, 2010)

Here are a few pictures of Mocha...Not the best - my batteries were dying, so it wasn't shooting as clear...

You can't really tell the extent of how skinny she is, but you get a good idea...And her poor little udder 

She is a cutie though!! Such a sweet girl!


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## supermommy (Apr 26, 2010)

How awful...Why do people keep animals they can not take care of? Im so glad you got her!! I hope she gets better fast!


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## glenolam (Apr 26, 2010)

I see why you just had to take her!

So....in the first picture it's the left udder that had the mastitis, right?

I've (thankfully) never had to deal with it so I'm not jumping in with any advice, but I'm learning a lot - thanks for posting the pics~

And, yes, you can tell from those pics how skinny she is.  I'm glad you got her - it's nice when good people are willing to put time and effort into something that needs to be rescued!


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks guys 

I just dont understand with this goat though...Her other goats were fine...What was up with this girl and the other mancha??? She had her since at least February...She should have put on weight by now!!!

I have a hard time saying no to an animal that looks like this 

And yes, it is her left side with the issue...Her right side is just about dried up...Though I'm going to keep milking it out to make sure everything stays clear...


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## Horsefly (Apr 26, 2010)

I wish I could give you some advice on the mastitis but haven't had to deal with that thankfully.  I have a lamancha goat too And she is the skinniest of all my goats even though she is the alpha.  All I can figure is the breed tends to be thinner?  My doe is also 6 or 7 so that could be it also, do you know how old she is?  Mine is still fatter than yours, when we got her we thought the same thing she wasn't getting fed enough but she filled out some but is still skinnyish.  Your goats coat looks to be in good condition, the skinny could be a combo of having kids, being in milk, and having mastitis.  With you good care though Im sure she will fatten up nice.  Lamanchas are just the sweetest goats to be around.


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## rebecca100 (Apr 26, 2010)

Not trying to discourage you, but she really needs to see a vet.  there may be more issues other than mastitis, escpecially being so thin.  I would keep her far away from your other goats.  Deworm her.  In ignorance I bought a skinny nubian with "mastitis" that I felt sorry for that actually had cl in her udder.  They ruptured within a couple of days of getting her. I think a total of six ruptured.  She was skinny and never gained weight and eventually died.  Upon closer inspection we found lancing scars on her udder from abscesses that had healed before we got her. There was nothing the vet could do, since there is no treatment for cl(or wasn't then-I don't know about now).  I really and truly hope she is not sick, but you should take precautions anyway.  She had to spend the rest of her life in a pen to keep her from contaminating the rest of my goats.


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 26, 2010)

She is 2 years old...I bought 2 mancha does last year who looked like her...Just lack of feed, and bad care. 
Now the goat that is still with us is the healtiest looking of all of them...

If you run your hand along her topline, you can count every rib, and feel just about every bone in her body...Her tail head is actually sunken in (usually there's a layer of fat there covering the ligaments...not on her!) and all of her butt/hip bones are sticking out...

I'm calling the vet tomorrow to bring her in...Just ran out of time today. She is being confined away from my other goats. Though the vet who saw her confirmed it was mastitis. I inspected her udder tonight when I was massaging/hot compress, and I didnt see any scaring or anything odd about her udder...

...She has a nice dry, matted horse stall to stay in. and I hand graze her a few times a day so I can get her used to the grass...

(in ignorance) I would assume that the breeder would have culled her if there was more issue? She came from the breeder before the lady I got her from bought her. It looks like a pretty reputable breeder as far as I can see...But who knows!


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## cmjust0 (Apr 27, 2010)

chubbydog811 said:
			
		

> I would assume that the breeder would have culled her if there was more issue?


I hesitate to say this, but...

The breeder did cull her -- _they sold her to you_.


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 27, 2010)

They sold her *with papers *to the person I bought her from...Who bought her for breeding...I don't think I would consider that culling...Also I would assume they would have said if there was something majorly wrong with her. The breeder seems to be pretty good. They sell goats, milk and eggs by the looks of it, and they have a bunch of reg. goats out there...But that's just me...

Anyway, brought her to the vet...She had a temp, so they said to give her a big dose of Pen. for the mastitis, and Banamine...I dont remember why...

We also tested for CAE and CL while we were there, so we shall see!! The vet thought it *could* be CAE, but she said her joints and everything looked fine, so she wasnt going to say it definitely was....
Just in case, can anyone tell me about sanitation issues that come with CAE? Can you have a CAE herd, and CAE free herd (seperately of course) and be ok?
I've done a lot of research, but never really found anything along those lines...


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## cmjust0 (Apr 27, 2010)

You can have a CAE+ goat in a CAE- herd, and still maintain everyone else's CAE- status.  The real transmission risk with CAE is nursing; transmission between adults is considered to be very rare.

Our first buck came from a CAE- herd that contained one CAE+ doe, if that makes any sense.  They just had the one doe with CAE.  Consequently, the CAE+ doe was our buck's mama.  They snatched him at birth, dried him off, and started him on a bottle.  He tested negative before we bought him.  

And, for what it's worth...I know of plenty of people who would sell a Johnes+, CAE+, CL+, Chinese Creeping Crud+ goat to someone -- anyone -- along with papers and the whole nine as a sound breeding stock animal, only to let the other guy figure out that there's a problem.  If the phone rings later it's "well...must'a got it from yers, 'cuz she was healthy as a horse when she left here!"

Period.  The end.  Nothing the buyer can do about it except cry and sling snot.

Some folks are simply more interested in $$$ than anything else, and to those folks, culling just means "get it off my property."

ETA -- Banamine's most likely for the fever, and also for inflammation and pain.  I haven't read the entire thread, but have you infused the teat with antibiotic or anything?


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 27, 2010)

Thanks cm! That is exactly what I was looking for!
I really hate that I am such an honest person sometimes when it comes to trusting others...I try to see the best in everyone, until the give me reason not too...I really hope she didnt come this way from the breeder!! That's how you get a bad name lol...And that is why I'm so honest to everyone who buys an animal from me (I really hate it when people lie to make money  ) 

Honestly, I really dont care if this goat is useful in my herd or not. I am perfectly happy with her being a "nanny" to all the weanlings if her health allows- to keep them company! She has such a sweet and loving personality.
On the way to and back from the vets office, she was triyng to get on the front seat of the car...so since we wouldnt let her, she insisted on standing on the center console, and resting her head on my shoulder 

Anyway, I just barely got her on Sunday...Only thing I did was hot compress, massage, and milk out...She started looking suspicious, so I decided I REALLY needed to get her to the vet. No infusions of any sort...

I'm not too worried about the CAE, I just want to make sure it wont be easily transmitted to my other girls...I dont want her to be by herself all her life, but I dont want to risk my other girls health either! I think what it really comes down to, is I cant believe someone would let their goat get to this point without thinking "hm, there might be a problem if she is losing weight, and not gaining it back easily"...I'm such a picky person when it comes to my animals, it makes me wonder how others can't be the same way...about another living being...
Sorry...that's my small rant for the day  I have rescued way too many animals, like her and worse off, and I just dont understand :/


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## cmjust0 (Apr 27, 2010)

Thing is, when I see one so skinny and hear that it's just the one while everyone else is healthy...I kinda start thinking Johne's disease.  I really hope that's not it, _and it's probably not_, but it's good that you've had her tested and are keeping her quarantined in the meantime.  

I'm sorta surprised the vet didn't recommend infusing the teat.  You can get a product called ToDay (Cephapirin Sodium) at farm supply stores over the counter..  It's not terribly expensive at about $30, and there are 12 doses in each box.  Each affected chamber -- according to Fias Co -- would require 4-5 infusions, total.  Soooo, you're talking $10-15 to treat this, with at least another round left over should you need it later.

Fias Co actually has a write up on mastitis, including directions on using ToDay in goats.  You'll find that here.

Bear in mind that I've (thankfully) not had occasion to treat mastitis (yet..though I'm sure I will someday).  I'm just going by what I've read.

Good luck..  Keep us posted.


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## aggieterpkatie (Apr 27, 2010)

I don't think you can say you have a CAE- herd if you have even one CAE+ goat.  I mean, _maybe_ if she's totally separate from everyone else, but not if she's housed with them.


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## cmjust0 (Apr 27, 2010)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> I don't think you can say you have a CAE- herd if you have even one CAE+ goat.  I mean, _maybe_ if she's totally separate from everyone else, but not if she's housed with them.


That's why I qualified the statement with "..if that makes any sense.."

It will to some...but not to others.  

Point is, you can have one CAE+ goat running with a herd of CAE- goats without a lot of risk to the CAE- goats.


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## aggieterpkatie (Apr 27, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> aggieterpkatie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree.  I just had to comment on the herd thing.


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## chubbydog811 (Apr 27, 2010)

The thing is CM, that it was the large breed goats that were skinny, just so happens this girl was worse off....She had dwarves besides the 3 big girls...So I'm assuming that's why they were the only skinny ones...as far as my experience goes, it seems VERY hard to have a skinny small goat lol...
I did read up on Fiasco (that's actually the first place I went!!)...We dont have any "farm" stores around here...we have blue seal, agway and such, but NONE of them have anything of any use for what I need!! I dont know how they cant...

And I was actually planning on getting my whole her tested for CAE/CL in a month or so (As of tomorrow, I will have at least 10 girls...I'm picking up a good Saanen milker tomorrow...I say at least because one girl was supposed to kid on Sunday :/ ...Still waiting! But that is going to be expensive...need to wait till riding lessons start up again!)...
I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of the girls had it..Seems like something that can be there without being noticed/causing issues? 

I'll keep this girl separated until we know for sure, but I am probably just going to keep the + and - does in their own herds...I know most of my herd came from CAE/CL free herds, but that doesn't seem to mean much. There is only one girl that wasn't from a "free" herd...


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## cmjust0 (Apr 28, 2010)

chubbydog811 said:
			
		

> The thing is CM, that it was the large breed goats that were skinny, just so happens this girl was worse off....She had dwarves besides the 3 big girls...So I'm assuming that's why they were the only skinny ones...as far as my experience goes, it seems VERY hard to have a skinny small goat lol...


Aha...that makes more sense, especially if all the goats were on the same feeding regimen.  Would actually make a whole lot of sense if she -- being the skinniest -- were the latest freshener.  



> I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of the girls had it..Seems like something that can be there without being noticed/causing issues?


With CAE, definitely.  I think I read once that something like 70% of goats with CAE will be totally asymptomatic their entire lives.


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## Roll farms (Apr 28, 2010)

I had my entire dairy herd tested a couple months ago b/c a ff freshened w/ a hard udder, and another breeder said it 'felt' like CAE mastitis.

10 negatives, 3 positives, ALL 3 positives are asymptomatic / act / seem fine.

One of the positives, Doodle...was out of a CAE neg. tested dam, her 2 sisters that are here tested negative, AND her daughter tested negative....AND ALL were caught at birth / raised on heat treated colostrum and pasteurized milk.

The other 2 positives weren't born here....

And the one I was suspicious about...tested negative.

But I'm just dumbfounded how Doodle got it, IF it is a true positive....she'll be retested shortly.  
And she's NEVER had mastitis, she has the prettiest BIG productive udder on the place.


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## aggieterpkatie (Apr 29, 2010)

My doe tested positive and her udder is nice and soft and she's a good producer. She's totally asymptomatic.  I don't freak out about CAE anymore.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 29, 2010)

Is unthriftiness symptomatic or was CAE suggested because of the mastitis?


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