# Does anyone know...can you feed a baby raw cow's milk???



## Arctichicken (Jul 15, 2008)

I was wondering if a baby can be fed raw cow's milk instead of that processed powder like formula? Does anyone know. I'm assuming that's what they did in the old days if a woman couldn't nurse...kinda makes sense to me. 

What do you think???? Would love to hear from anyone about this!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 15, 2008)

The answer is.......NO! You can pasturize it yourself at home using a double broiler. Until the age of 2 years it is not recomended to feed them raw milk. 

BTW-In the olden days they pasturized it themselves.


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## Arctichicken (Jul 15, 2008)

By pasturizing it you mean to steralize it by heating it up?
I know I'm really new.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 16, 2008)

From Fias Co Farm's web site:

What is Pasteurization? 

Pasteurization is the sterilization of liquids such as milk, orange juice, wine, and beer, as well as cheese, to destroy disease-causing and other undesirable bacteria/organisms. The process is named for the French scientist Louis Pasteur, who discovered in the 1860s that undesired fermentation could be prevented in wine and beer by heating it to 135F (57C) for a few minutes. Milk is pasteurized by heating it to about 145F (63C) for 30 min or by the "flash method" of heating to 160F (71C) for 15 sec, followed by rapid cooling to below 50F (10C), at which temperature it is stored. In milk, after pasteurization, the harmless lactic acid bacteria survives, but if the milk is not kept cold, they multiply rapidly and cause it to turn sour. (1)


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## Arctichicken (Jul 16, 2008)

Thank you.


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## Southern28Chick (Jul 16, 2008)

Wouldn't the mother be feeding raw milk?


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 16, 2008)

Southern28Chick said:
			
		

> Wouldn't the mother be feeding raw milk?


If  your refering to the mother breastfeeding, yes. But, human milk and cow's milk are different and you need to pasturize it for young children. 

Ideally, from birth to 1 year of age, a baby should get either breast milk or formula. Until the age of 2 years their milk should be pasturized.


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## Southern28Chick (Jul 16, 2008)

Thanks that makes sense


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## kstaven (Jul 18, 2008)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

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Kind of interested where you pulled your information from. Could you please direct me to the source? Would like to compare it to source material I have on file here.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 18, 2008)

kstaven said:
			
		

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Source would be my two DD's pediatrition.


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## kstaven (Jul 20, 2008)

They must train them from different text books than the ones up here then.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 20, 2008)

kstaven said:
			
		

> They must train them from different text books than the ones up here then.


What do your's recommend?


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## FriesianMilk (Jul 21, 2008)

I don't think I would feed my baby raw milk.
I am currently breastfeeding.  When the baby is breastfeeding the milk is going right from mom to baby's mouth, there is no risk of contamination.  (assuming mom showers and wears clothes  ) Most mothers who pump milk for their babies are clean and careful about their supplies and technique.  While it's not aseptic, I have never felt the need to pastuerize my milk for my baby.  

Now cow's on the other hand....don't mind laying down with their udder in a pile of poo.....


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## Arctichicken (Jul 22, 2008)

FriesianMilk said:
			
		

> I don't think I would feed my baby raw milk.
> I am currently breastfeeding.  When the baby is breastfeeding the milk is going right from mom to baby's mouth, there is no risk of contamination.  (assuming mom showers and wears clothes  ) Most mothers who pump milk for their babies are clean and careful about their supplies and technique.  While it's not aseptic, I have never felt the need to pastuerize my milk for my baby.
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> Now cow's on the other hand....don't mind laying down with their udder in a pile of poo.....


Very good point!!!!


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## dairy_girl (Jul 24, 2008)

umm.. no!   your baby calf just needs his mamas milk all naturell "or however you spell that!  "


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 24, 2008)

dairy_girl said:
			
		

> umm.. no!   your baby calf just needs his mamas milk all naturell "or however you spell that!  "


The OP is referrring to a human baby.


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## wynedot55 (Jul 24, 2008)

yeah they are talking about a 2 legged calf.


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## Arctichicken (Jul 24, 2008)

I really wasn't trying to sound stupid. I"m new to this whole farm/livestock thing and I was just curious. That's all. My youngest is 2 and I'm not having anymore children (already have 6) and I breastfed my kids too. I was simply wondering because I had learned how much better raw milk was for you then pasturized and wondered if it would be better for a baby vs. formula. Thanks for all the great info.


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## wynedot55 (Jul 24, 2008)

the reason that baby cant take cows milk at birth is because they dont have the emzymes to break it down.when i was born i was sickly.i couldnt take the breast milk.so i was bottled on formula.


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## Arctichicken (Jul 25, 2008)

That's interesting, I've never heard of a baby who was allergic or couldn't digest their mother's breastmilk. I was always taught that every mother's milk is especially formulated for that particular baby.


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## dairy_girl (Jul 25, 2008)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

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ummm... hmmm... i would say yes to that! we have freinds that feed there newborn babys raw cow milk and had no problems with it!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 25, 2008)

There is a lot of bacteria in raw milk-not all of it good-and an infant or toddler under 2 years old isn't able to fit the bad bacteria off like an older child or adult.


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## dairy_girl (Jul 25, 2008)

a lot of people feed there babys raw cow milk


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## Beekissed (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm sure its been done quite a bit down through the ages.


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## Farmer Kitty (Aug 4, 2008)

Doesn't mean it's the safest or best though.


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## Beekissed (Aug 4, 2008)

Well, we don't hesitate to give our young ones store bought milk though, do we?  And what hormones, antibiotics and who knows what other chemicals we are pouring down their throats? Its pretty safe to say that there are dangers rampant in most of the foods we eat now days.  I'm just saying that a lot of our ancestors thrived on raw cow's milk and lived to tell about it...maybe some didn't.  Much the same gamble we take now when eating a simple tomato!


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## Farmer Kitty (Aug 5, 2008)

You can pasturize your own milk or if your lucky, like me, you have a farm that pasturizes and sells their milk around you. One of those small farm stores! 

I've also heard enough "Old time stories" to know that many did pasturize their milk for the little ones. At least since pasturization and it's benefits were discovered.


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## EmsoffLambs (Aug 6, 2008)

Aside from potential bacteria contamination, cows milk is not balanced for human babies.  All mammal's milk has different proportions of fat, protein, and lactose.  Human milk is very different in composition from cows milk.  This is why it's recommended that children be fed only either breast milk or formula for their first year.  Even goats and lambs will not thrive on cows milk, nor will puppies or kittens, so it makes sense that we would not expect a child to either.  

Certainly, before formula was invented, some babies were raised on cows milk.  However, a lot of things were done out of necessity that we've since learned a better way.  There is also a much lower death rate in babies and higher life expectancy in humans in our country than in the past too.  Heck, women used to die all the time in childbirth, which is a real rarity anymore.

Just a few thoughts.


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## Arctichicken (Aug 7, 2008)

Just a reminder but most baby formulas are made from cow's milk. So yes while it is nutritionally different than human milk which is of course best for human babies, cow's milk is usually the #2 choice .


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## Farmer Kitty (Aug 7, 2008)

Formula's may use cow's milk as a base but, it is also pasturized and nutrients added. You know I would be  interested in what other countries use in their formula. Here cows milk is what we drink most for milk but, what about other countries. It seems to me there are some that use more goats milk. I wonder about their formulas? Does it change due to the difference in what they consume most or do they use the same stuff we do?


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## Arctichicken (Aug 8, 2008)

That's a good question. I know goats milk is much more compatible for humans. I've never seen a goats milk formula tho...hmmm Now you have me thinking


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## chickennoodles (Oct 16, 2008)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> Well, we don't hesitate to give our young ones store bought milk though, do we?  And what hormones, antibiotics and who knows what other chemicals we are pouring down their throats? Its pretty safe to say that there are dangers rampant in most of the foods we eat now days.  I'm just saying that a lot of our ancestors thrived on raw cow's milk and lived to tell about it...maybe some didn't.  Much the same gamble we take now when eating a simple tomato!


Because all milk comes from female animals, it all has "hormones" in it- usually natural levels that are not harmful.  The USDA and the FDA tightly regulate almost all food produced , packaged  and marketed for human consumption in the US.  Chemicals, anitbiotics, etc are not allowed in any milk- organic or conventionally produced.  Don't believe all the hype that was started by animal activitists and now has many consumers cofused on what is safe and not safe to eat. I am not excusing poor managers, and people that may bend the rules, but as a general point, milk in the store is safe to drink.


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## BigSkyChickie (Oct 16, 2008)

Chickennoodles, I can tell I'm going to enjoy reading your posts.

Whether raw cow milk is safe regarding bacterial pathogens or not, it is not an appropriate source of nutrition for infants <1 year of age.  This link-
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1594357?dopt=Abstract   -tells why.

Personally, I would hesitate to give raw cow's milk to babies <2 years of age, but that might just be the microbiologist coming out in me.


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## Beekissed (Oct 16, 2008)

> The USDA and the FDA tightly regulate almost all food produced , packaged  and marketed for human consumption in the US.


I sit smack dab in the middle of commercial poultry country and happen to know that all the chickens receive medicated feeds(tetracycline is one of these meds) and their litter is fed to beef cattle as a source of protein.  These cattle are then fed antibiotics to combat the illnesses caused by a high corn diet used in the finishing process.  The accumulation of broad spectrum antibiotics in the tissues of these animals does get passed on to the unsuspecting public.  Not all information about these practices are generated by animal protection organizations.  If you believe the FDA and USDA are on top of things, you are a little naive.  

I can't imagine the dairy producers are much different, with the emphasis on animals gaining early sexual maturity and maintaining milk production for as long as possible.  Not to mention the problems with mastitis and the antibiotics they use for this.  I've seen them hooking up those cows in the dairy...they give a perfunctory swipe of the teats and jab those milkers on...no feeling for a hot quarter or anything.  Milking that pus and infection right into the milk we buy at the store.


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## Farmer Kitty (Oct 17, 2008)

I am a dairy woman. I can't speak for anyone else but, our cows are treated/feed/cared for well. They are washed off and checked for mastitis at milking time. 

Regulations require SCC (Somatic Cell Count) to be under a certain number or you get cut off. Regulations also require that a sample of milk is taken at each and every pickup. When the truck gets to the plant the load is tested. If the load tests "hot" (positive for antibiotics) then each individual farmers sample will be tested to find out who had the hot milk. That/those farmers can be held responsible to pay for the load of milk which has to be dumped. Tests have changed over the years to make it harder to cheat too. SCC is effected by more than mastitis. If a cow has injured a teat or her udder the SCC will go up even without mastitis present.


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## Beekissed (Oct 17, 2008)

Cool!!!  That's good to know!  

So...no medicated feeds for commercial dairy? 

 There is a dairy place near here that have docked all their cows tails and they don't have any fields to graze on.....just a real muddy feedlot and they always look muddy and wet and miserable!  I know the various reasons for docking tails on cows but isn't it just a tad cruel when they can't brush away flies?  And, if they use fly treatments on their cows, isn't there a chance that the med could be absorbed topically and find its way to the milk?  Just wondering....


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## Farmer Kitty (Oct 17, 2008)

The fly sprays are safe to use on the cows. No problem with the milk due to them. 

It sounds like you have one of those huge dairy farms near you. I hate it when the cows can't get out to have room to get some excersize. Winters her are cold and sometimes nasty. While the cows don't go out everyday we try to get them out to get some excercise on a regular basis. Spring, summer, and fall they go out day and night. 






_Medicated feeds for calves but, milk cows no._


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## allenacres (Nov 3, 2008)

I found a great web site about raw milk. And here was a reply on the FAQ page.
Q: Can anybody drink raw milk?

A: Yes, with a nod to those folks whom it just doesn't suit, but there are a few important exceptions. For infants, there's absolutely no substitute for mother's milk, however, should that be unavailable for some unfortunate reason, baby formula with raw milk as a base can fill in nicely. Individuals with a compromised immune system, whether due to illness, medication, chemo-therapy or genetic malfunction, may be able to drink it, but should consult with a raw milk-friendly medical professional before attempting it. 

Link to site, http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/Raw_Milk_FAQ.html


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## tororider (Nov 5, 2008)

To be clear, a baby should ideally be getting its mothers breast milk.  Its own mother.  Each mothers breast milk is specially formulated by HER body for HER baby.  That being said...

We starting leasing a cow this past spring.  We have been feeding it to my then one year old son, as well as my 4 year old son.  The pasteurization process breaks down the cell bodies in the milk making those undigestable.  Raw milk is so much better for you, the fat in raw milk is good for you, its just good for you.  

I understand that hormones are now closely monitored by the government but medicine is not.  Most dairies are still giving medicated feed if not just administering antibiotics.  I don't need the extra medicine, I will wait until I am sick.

The cow that we lease I found from a place on the internet.  The reason we went with this dairy farm is that they are totally organic and they delivered to a location near us.  I also am good friends with dairy farmers who live on the other side of the state.  They, like most dairies I am told, draw milk off of their tanks before the milke truck comes to take it.  So they are drinking raw milk.  They sanitize the teets at time of milking, which although I don't own a cow only seems to make sense, and they get a report from the company that delivers their milk.  They don't medicate or use hormones with their milk, they get paid more for it because of this.  However they are not an "organic" farm.  The reason... the government wants too much money to "certify" the farm.

In the end I think anyone should feel comfortable with the decision they are making.  If you aren't comfortable with feeding your child raw milk, don't do it.  If after doing your research you are comfortable, as I am and was with my then one year old, do it.  My son has been extremely healthy.

Good luck with your decision.

Here are some resources I used.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHcyAH0rOPE&feature=related
http://www.realmilk.com/
http://www.realmilk.com/what.html
http://www.hicksorganicfood.com/

P.S. Thanks for a forum to express view points and to learn from other people's experience.


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## Farmer Kitty (Nov 5, 2008)

Obviously you are not the one shipping the milk! There is a sample taken each and every pickup! Each load of milk going into the factory has to be tested for antibiotics! Trust me it's regulated right down to where and how you keep it in the barn! You can not have milk cow treatments and dry cow treatments on the same shelf in the cupboard. If it isn't labeled for milk cows it had better not be near the milk cow stuff when an inspector shows up!

Yes, a good sanitizing/cleaning before milking is good and smart. Not only for clean milk but, if dirt is left on the teat then it can enter into the udder when the milk canal opens for the milk to come out. Then you have unhealthy bacteria maybe resulting in mastitis or maybe not. But, it will be there and you won't know it until it shows up on your test or the cow gets mastitis.

Yes, raw milk is great. The reason, given by my DDs pediatrition, behind the not giving it to children under 2 is their immune system is not fully developed and therefore not necessarily able to handle the bacteria found in raw milk. 

There is more to organic farming than not using antibiotics. There is regulations on what they can put on their land and the types of seed they can use to grow their crops and no commercial fertilizer. As well as the feed they buy has to all be certified organic-most feedmills have to order it in special. It is a long and difficult road to certification taking years. As for the money it takes to the certification, those guys get paid extreamely well and here there are a number who are organic or are working toward being certified organic. You can not claim to be organic without the certification. 

Yes, it is a personal choice as whether to give it to a little one or not and it is nice to be able to discuss it with others.


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## tororider (Nov 5, 2008)

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I am not the one shipping, and that is what I meant when I said that they are testing the milk, with every pickup.

Farmer Kitty, where abouts in WI are you?  I used to live there and still get back a couple times a year to see numerous family I still have there.


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## Farmer Kitty (Nov 5, 2008)

BYW-


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## chicken_boy_Kurt (Nov 6, 2008)

So I might have missed it but:

Why can't you feed an infant raw milk? Is it because their immune system isn't strong enough yet? Or is it another reason?


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## Farmer Kitty (Nov 6, 2008)

chicken_boy_Kurt said:
			
		

> So I might have missed it but:
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> Why can't you feed an infant raw milk? Is it because their immune system isn't strong enough yet? Or is it another reason?


It's because of their immune system not being fully established yet.


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## chicken_boy_Kurt (Nov 6, 2008)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

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Yeah that's what I thought, thanks.


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## steerrider (Nov 7, 2008)

Arctichicken said:
			
		

> I was wondering if a baby can be fed raw cow's milk instead of that processed powder like formula? Does anyone know. I'm assuming that's what they did in the old days if a woman couldn't nurse...kinda makes sense to me.
> 
> What do you think???? Would love to hear from anyone about this!


The globules in cows milk are larger and harder to digest then the globules in goats milk. 
Did you know all humans intestines shut down to cows milk by the age of 2? but we can still digest most of the nutriance in goats milk. 

cows milk is ok.. and better than store bought formula, but is not ideal for a human or animal baby due to the large globules. ( sorry for the poor spelling) 
Non pasturized milk is better and easier digested then pasturized as well. 
The reason for pasturization was TB whitch is not that common in the US anymore.. 

J


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## Imissmygirls (Nov 17, 2008)

I recall my momma ( of 6) telling me my older sister wasn't breastfeeding right as an infant so she made homemade formula with homepasturized milk, watered down with Karo syrup in it. This would have been in the 40s and there were  accepted recipes for homemade formula in those days.  I think a big reason for pasturization at that time was to break down the proteins to make them more digestible -- although I may be wrong on that. 
I know my city pediatrician was shocked when I told him my 5 kids ( young teens/preteens at the time) were getting raw milk, until I told him how well she was healthtested ( being a 4H show cow).  Then he was OK with it. 
My personal opinion: CLEAN raw milk is awesome stuff and definitely better for you than pasteurized. But there are dirty farms out there and that is commercial farming these days. Not every farm is like Farmer Kitty's -- where I am sure she is riding herd on cleanliness during milking!
My mother taught me to be fanatical about milk cleanliness. I have been on commercial farms where it is an afterthought -- I'm ashamed to say it 
So.. keep your milking cow and equipment clean to be healthy


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## j.luetkemeyer (Feb 13, 2009)

I would like to add a few comments regarding milk.  These comments are my opinions based off of several years of research.  Raw milk can be very healthy.  It is never recommended to feed a child 1 year or younger milk other than mother's milk.  

Pasteurization destroys the enzymes found in milk that help break down the casein protein into a form digestible by humans.  Most humans can digest cow's milk just fine if it is in raw form.  There are a few important things to remember.  The only way to get healthy milk is to feed a cow a normal healthy diet.  This excludes grain.  Cows and other ruminant's digestive systems are designed to break down the sugars found in grasses and herbaceous plants and convert them to protein.  They are not able to digest grain.  You can google raw milk and get the specifics.  Another goods site to check out is Weston A Price foundation's site.  There is some good research info on there.  

I am new to cows; however, I have spent a lot of time researching and have started to develop pastures that will provide the right forages for my cows.  Rye and wheat grass are the best.  A little alfalfa and clover are good as well.  There are several herbs that you can plant including mugwort.  I am still researching the varieties of herbs to plant as well as trees that have good fodder as well.  The pods from honey locust trees are good.  The leaves from several trees including white oak and ginkgo biloba.  I will add updates as I find more information to share.  As far as grass goes you can check out sucraseed's high sugar grass.  I have researched it and have decided to replace what I have know with this mixture and add wheat as well.


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 14, 2009)

j.luetkemeyer  said:
			
		

> The only way to get healthy milk is to feed a cow a normal healthy diet.  This excludes grain.  Cows and other ruminant's digestive systems are designed to break down the sugars found in grasses and herbaceous plants and convert them to protein.  They are not able to digest grain.


Millions of cows do just fine on grain, mine included. I have very healthy cows and our vet visits are mostly limited to herd health (preganancy checks, calfhood vac for bangs, etc.) I have been told by our vets that they hate emergency calls from us due to the fact that it's something major. If cattle can't digest grain, I have a SIL and her husband that should have dead cattle as they raise corn fed cattle. 

This thread is about feeding babies raw milk, if you would like to open a new thread discussing the topic of feeding cattle feel free to do so. But, let's let this one get back to topic.


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## j.luetkemeyer (Feb 14, 2009)

I apologize for putting that comment on this thread.  I thought it was relavent because if you are going to feed your baby cow's milk you would want it to contain the right enzymes, minerals, fat soluable vitamins, etc.  Quick clarification regarding grain.  I wasn't saying grain would kill the cow.  I'm saying their stomaches are not designed to digest grains.  By feeding the cow grains you are definitely going to have milk lacking some of the things I mentioned above of which are highly important for human digestibility.  There are many things our stomaches are not designed to eat; however, many people continue to eat those foods.  This can cause a lack of nutrients when you think you are getting them, and also cause your body to have allergic reactions to the food.  I could go on and on; however, I realize this thread is not to discuss nutrition.


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## wynedot55 (Feb 14, 2009)




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## ruminantlover27 (Dec 27, 2011)

If you want to read a really good book go to Amazon and order "The Untold Story of Milk" by Ron Schmid and get his latest one. 
You can feed a baby raw cow's milk, but it should be from a healthy source and may be difficient in some things. Mom's milk is best when young but my baby and toddler drink it all the time with no problem. It will help to build a strong immune system and there is research to support it. 
I highly recommend this book, it is very informative, has been well researched, and has been  recommended by many others to me.


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## ruminantlover27 (Dec 27, 2011)

Oh and if you want to feed goat milk you can too, but it is not used as much mainly for the reason that it contains 1/5 of the amount of folic acid that cow's milk has, but you can add something else for that to the milk to make up for it- like cod liver oil. The oil has high levels of vitamin d, k and a. All are needed together for the body to be able to use them, as they work together and one cannot work without the other- at least very well. It is also a natural source and along with the raw milk, all these things work intricately together in the body. 
So pasteurization and artificial supplements such as certain vitamins from certain sources, in certain states, and processed, can create many problems on many levels for any creature


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## RubThyNeighbor (May 1, 2013)

Our family LOVES milk

but I am an Ayurvedic practitioner and student so we heat ours to make it more digestible. Cold beverages are heavier on the body and can create gas / colic in both adults and kids without strong digestive fire. 

Also, I think human babies should have their mothers milk for as long as it is the best, healthiest (emotionally and physically) for mom & baby. 

If it was me and I couldn't breastfeed my child then I would do a homemade formula with (heated almost to a boil) raw goat milk. It is easier on the digestive system than cow. If that wasn't available then I would use a cow one and then I would go to an organic store bought formula 
(with no corn syrup). I think as long as the baby is over 6 months and on solid foods then non-human milk is okay.


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