# All of your pig talk got me in TROUBLE!



## Matt n Lee

Been reading pig threads all day and I up and bought some pigs! I found a guy on CL with hampshire yorkshire cross. got 2 cut males 35lbs and 40 lbs each for 100 bucks. I have t pick them up in the morning before work, but the real scary part will be telling my wife when I get home 


You are all in big trouble! 

Ill post some pictures and prolly a video


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## Pastor Dave

Be careful with those videos. If you get your DW's reaction, wouldn't want to see her abusing you! 
Unless you need the proof for evidence or something.
Honestly though, mine just says, I don't care what you do, but don't expect me to help!


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## Latestarter

Ouch Dave... That doesn't sound like a partnership to me...   But then I'm sure she probably has hobbies and such that you aren't the least interested in taking part in either.

Grats Matt! Looking forward to some pics! Since they're little right now you can keep them in with basic fencing. When they get to be 300+ pounds, that's when you need really secure, heavy duty stuff.


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## Pastor Dave

She has helped me out the weeks of summer I have been a director at our church camp, and when I have been sick enough I just couldn't get outside, but she told me that's what I get for marrying a city girl. 

She told me up front she didn't want to be part of rabbit raising. So, I knew it going in. But, she didnt tell me no. She likes to eat the meat, but doesn't want to get attached to them, so she keeps her distance.


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## Mini Horses

Matt n Lee said:


> Been reading pig threads all day and





Matt n Lee said:


> You are all in big trouble!



Well then, if you are STILL READING your wife will really be surprised when you expand your livestock with goats, sheep, horses, chickens, turkeys & ducks  next week!!!     

Can hardly wait for that...video.  We are enablers!


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## Baymule

Haha!! She won't be mad very long, just the 6 months it takes to turn them into bacon, sausage, roast, ribs, ham......


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## Matt n Lee

Man some great responses in this thread...Im really digging this community 

Truth be told Farmer Lemon (a.k.a. Lee a.k.a. DW) is more of a farmer than I am sense she is home all day working with the animals (13 chickens, 4 turkeys, 8 katahdin and now 2 pigs) She was all for the pigs, she just didnt realize it was happening this morning  Here they are 1/2 yorkshire 1/2 hampshire. the one in the foreground is about 4 months old and near to 50lbs and the one in the background is 3 months old and closer to 30lbs. they are inside our 12x20 sheep barn here. this is temporary and we will be doing some fence work this weekend. will have videos of that too. I think I will start a journal for our pig journey


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## frustratedearthmother

Good looking pigs!


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## Latestarter

Awesome! That ought to be some great bacon! Just curious, I noticed the gap in the slats on the flooring/shelves behind the pigs... Are those sleeping platforms for the sheep? If so, do they use them for that purpose? Have you had any issues of them getting their hooves stuck between the slats?  Or maybe its just off the ground storage for hay or what not...


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## Matt n Lee

Latestarter said:


> Awesome! That ought to be some great bacon! Just curious, I noticed the gap in the slats on the flooring/shelves behind the pigs... Are those sleeping platforms for the sheep? If so, do they use them for that purpose? Have you had any issues of them getting their hooves stuck between the slats?  Or maybe its just off the ground storage for hay or what not...



No no....those are actually stands for chicken nest boxes  we pulled them out when the pigs went in. The chickens are supposed to lay in the coop, but they are 100% free range(like they sleep in trees at night) so they lay wherever they want. Actually one of my concerns will be keeping them out of the pig area down the road so they dont get eaten.


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## Sara Ranch

Awesome pigs!  Congrats!


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## Matt n Lee

Sara Ranch said:


> Awesome pigs!  Congrats!



Thanks Sara. We are VERY excited of course!


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## Matt n Lee

Question for you pig experts (no pressure) . We have access to what amounts to about 3/4 a 5 gallon bucket of fresh kitchen scraps from a cafe in the building where I work on a daily basis. It is a mix of meat veggies and rice\bread. The plan was to feed this to the pigs on a daily basis. I have heard that scraps = fat pigs, which makes sense. So I am wondering if anyone has a ballpark number for how much to feed a pig/day in lbs?

We are not oppose to mixing in corn or some type of typical pig feed and minerals. Keep in mind they will be on pasture with acorns and pecans as well.

Thanks for any advice on feed.


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## TAH

congrats on the pigs! 

btw you got a new sub.


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## Matt n Lee

Thanks TAH! thats awesome. I hope you enjoy the channel. My wife is hilarious in some of her videos trust me


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## TAH

Matt n Lee said:


> Thanks TAH! thats awesome. I hope you enjoy the channel. My wife is hilarious in some of her videos trust me


You're welcome.

I noticed... the one of her trying to make the lip of the ram was pretty funny.


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## Pastor Dave

How hard is it to collect the eggs of free range hens?


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## Matt n Lee

easy peazy Pastor. We set them up a couple of spots with protected boxes with fresh straw or pine shavings and they will put the eggs in those most of hte time. Once one starts laying in those the rest will follow. Im sure if you used the training eggs that they would follow those as well, but we never had to. We had them trained to the coop and were putting them up at night and all the typical stuff, but it was obvious they preferred to roost in the trees so we started letting them. Its pretty fun to watch them fly/fall from the trees in the morning this includes 4 turkeys mind you. Man we should get a video of that


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## Pastor Dave

I suppose they would be just as safe up there at night from most predators that can't climb as they would be in coops. They are probably pretty happy birds.


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## Matt n Lee

Pastor Dave said:


> I suppose they would be just as safe up there at night from most predators that can't climb as they would be in coops. They are probably pretty happy birds.



That was my thought as well. In some situations it would be better than a coop. If something gets in your coop....ALL your chickens are dead. If something gets at them in the tree it will only get one before the others take off.


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## Mini Horses

In trees roosting -- they may get more than one.  Birds are pretty limited on the roost, daze like.  That's one reason why if something gets into coop you lose so many.   All pros/cons and some results just depend on predators in area.  Owls can be vicious.  Everyone works within their own circumstances.

Love the pigs...glad DW is so "onboard"    My DH just never complained about anything I brought home, a real partner in it all.  I was spoiled.  

As to the scraps...I threw them in and they ate.  If it was more than they wanted then, sleep and repeat.  Mine also loved that I cut grass into a bagger and dumped it in to them. Chomp, Chomp!  I kept an area that I'd mow a strip just for that.  I don't use chemicals, so no issues.   I generally got a truckload of veggies/breads/etc. and used it over the course of 5-7 days for chickens & pigs.    Here I use a feed to supplement and it makes me feel they are getting vit/min needed -- n case.   Mine were not overly fat.  They love pumpkins.  Pigs are very smart.  They will respect hot wire if trained young.   Also, remember they can't sweat & so need to have a mudhole & shade to cool as they don't do heat well.


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## Baymule

If you give the pigs corn, sour it first. Straight whole corn doesn't digest real good. We just took our 2 to slaughter and they were fed soured corn. Cover the corn with water and soak several days. I kept 8 buckets going, fed twice a day. I poured water from the soured bucket into the day's fresh bucket to get it going faster.


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## Matt n Lee

Mini Horses said:


> In trees roosting -- they may get more than one.  Birds are pretty limited on the roost, daze like.  That's one reason why if something gets into coop you lose so many.   All pros/cons and some results just depend on predators in area.  Owls can be vicious.  Everyone works within their own circumstances.



Well the roosting in the trees isn't a new thing they have been at it for months, but I hear you on the owls and they are around here. I already told the wife the day I wake up and a single one is missing, back in the coop they go.



Baymule said:


> If you give the pigs corn, sour it first. Straight whole corn doesn't digest real good. We just took our 2 to slaughter and they were fed soured corn. Cover the corn with water and soak several days. I kept 8 buckets going, fed twice a day. I poured water from the soured bucket into the day's fresh bucket to get it going faster.



I got some cracked corn today. Ill start some soaking, but I don't have many scraps for them right now....do you think they would be ok eating just pumpkin for a couple of days? If not ill need to give them organic chicken feed or dry corn.


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## Latestarter

They should do well on the chicken feed until such time as you get regular hog feed. Also, I was told/warned that because they can't sweat, they have no real way to rid themselves of excess salt, so you want to be careful feeding them salted food scraps. So best to avoid if possible. Guess you have to wait till you process to make that salted pork  Pig people? input please?


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## Sara Ranch

@Matt n Lee - when I gathered food scraps from neighbors, I just mixed it in with the feed.  Sometimes, there was enough to give them all scraps for the meal.  No bones.  Nothing sharp they could hurt themselves with. And no pig by-products.  (Some may disagree with this, and that's ok.  I personally won't feed an animal it's direct relative.  So pigs don't get any pig products.  Cows don't get any cow products.  Etc.  The one exception is chicken eggs to chickens.  That is rare that I do that.)

I fed the piggies twice a day.  (They seemed happier with this twice a day feeding.)  They LOVED fresh garden goodies!  

The feed was often a supplemental to make sure they had enough of the right minerals and all.


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## Mini Horses

You have trees....they love acorns.  Extra hay?  mine would eat it when fresh grass wasn't provided.  Many weeds are tasty to them.  Any fruit trees around?  Excess dropped fruits, even over ripe is excellent. They are very versatile & not picky.

This past Spring, my pigs were gone & walking thru their area to see what I needed to do for renovation, I found a lot of free volunteer tomato plants & some vines that turned out to be butternut squash.   Transplanted to my garden.  I got over 100# of squash from those 3 vines.   Win/win.  Tomatoes were both cherry & slice varieties.


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## Baymule

Pigs need lysine, an essential nutrient. If you feed a hog feed, it will have lysine. You can also feed them boiled eggs, shell and all, or some milk or milk products. And no salty foods. @Latestarter is right about that.

Plant turnips now. They will grow through the winter and pigs love them.


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## Matt n Lee

great info in here. I will do my best on the salted food, but we are from South Louisiana, any scraps I get will be spiced in one way or another. I agree about no pork products for them. Im the same way about giving animals the same species as meat, but everything LOVES chicken eggs  even our sheep when they find one out in the field. quick update video on the pigs waking up from their first nigh ton the farm.


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## Baymule

Cute piggies!


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## Sara Ranch

Keep learning and keep doing your best.  You got this!


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## Matt n Lee

Thanks for the encouragement Sara. Fence construction started this weekend, then of course DW water pump goes out on her truck, so i spent a day replacing that. Now Im behind on the fence. Always something. I have a video or 2 of the fence build I will post for yall once I get them loaded. Im gonna try to get off work so I can get these piggies out of the barn and onto grass.  They have gotten WAY more friendly in the 4 days we have had them. They had a mixture of scraps, sour corn and pumpkins so far. Using the pumpkins as a natural dewormer, plus they like them


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## Sara Ranch

I can't wait to see (and to read about) the progress!


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## Farmer Connie

Congratulations on the plunge to pig-dome! Good looking feeders.
I breed Hampshires. No matter what I cross them with, they almost all come out looking like a Hamp! W/Berk, duroc, Yorks, they all carry that Hamp band. They are such a hearty docile pig. (and my loudest! lol)


Matt n Lee said:


> It is a mix of meat veggies and rice\bread.


*I EDITED OUT INCORRECT INFORMATION ABOUT BEING VEGETARY*(SORRY FOR THE MISTAKE connie). I would re think the free meat thingy.. _but it is your call_. Bread will add a lot of fat. We feed that in moderation. We crippled a Duroc sow with the bread bandwagon a few years ago. We were getting a trailer of bread for $30 often and my roc shot up to 900# (estimated by my vet) and she lamed her hip from all the extra baggage when she tripped over a tree root.
My feeder pigs I like on the leaner side so I rarely give them bread.
Rice is an excellent feed. Not high in nutrition but it scratches that inch (over eating) that my breeders have.
_What weight are you planning to slaughter at_?



Baymule said:


> If you give the pigs corn, sour it first. Straight whole corn doesn't digest real good. We just took our 2 to slaughter and they were fed soured corn. Cover the corn with water and soak several days. I kept 8 buckets going, fed twice a day. I poured water from the soured bucket into the day's fresh bucket to get it going faster.


So true.... @Baymule , I heat soak the corn (DH & I). Got tired of seeing our money in the poop. The corn would be intact and undigested.
We do what you do but the only difference is adding hot water to speed up the softening. Have a gas turkey fryer in the barn and bring the water to boil and pour it into 5 gallon buckets with the cracked corn and seal them. Sounds like a lot of work but not really. We boil the water while feeding the whole farm and it takes about that time. Multi tasking makes it work.. time wise. Whole corn will not work.

I like being back here on byh... nice to read and chat about something else besides poultry constantly. There is a zillion things going on on a Farm, in so many geographical locations and learning what else is going on miles and miles away from our area, only helps me become a better caretaker for my livestock.
Good luck with the new additions @Matt n Lee ! I'm looking fwd to following your thread!


(MY LATEST HAMPIES )​


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## frustratedearthmother

Farmer Connie said:


> Pigs are vegetarians


Sorry - but pigs are not vegetarians.  They will, all on their own, capture and eat whatever meat product they can...be it your favorite chicken or even a baby goat. 

"Pigs are, in fact, omnivores. They are opportunistic and will eat whatever is available and appeals to them, including what they can catch or *carrion*. Domestic pigs have been known to snatch and eat poultry and small animals."  _https://www.minipiginfo.com/common-myths-about-pigs.html
_
Mine will eat crawdads, and snakes in a heartbeat.  A chicken that got squashed in a feeding frenzy was a delicacy to them.  Omnivores - not vegetarians.


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## Matt n Lee

Farmer Connie said:


> Pigs are vegetarians.



I thought pigs were omnivores. Eating basically whatever they can catch. If they are strictly vegetarians then I certainly will reconsider feeding them meat scraps



Farmer Connie said:


> _What weight are you planning to slaughter at_?


Pretty small. I plan to process them myself so they need to be manageable in size. 225-250lbs max. Me and a couple of my sons can handle that size to get it over to the wench.



Farmer Connie said:


> Good luck with the new additions @Matt n Lee ! I'm looking fwd to following your thread!
> View attachment 40201
> (MY LATEST HAMPIES )​


Oh man those are some cute pig butts! Keeping from getting sweet on the pigs might be the hardest part


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## Matt n Lee

frustratedearthmother said:


> Sorry - but pigs are not vegetarians.  They will, all on their own, capture and eat whatever meat product they can...be it your favorite chicken or even a baby goat.
> 
> "Pigs are, in fact, omnivores. They are opportunistic and will eat whatever is available and appeals to them, including what they can catch or *carrion*. Domestic pigs have been known to snatch and eat poultry and small animals."  _https://www.minipiginfo.com/common-myths-about-pigs.html
> _
> Mine will eat crawdads, and snakes in a heartbeat.  A chicken that got squashed in a feeding frenzy was a delicacy to them.  Omnivores - not vegetarians.



Beat me to it @frustratedearthmother


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## Farmer Connie

Matt n Lee said:


> I thought pigs were omnivores. Eating basically whatever they can catch. If they are strictly vegetarians then I certainly will reconsider feeding them meat scraps


I will have to research that when I'm not mobile.. So don't hold me to that..lol. trying to remember who told me..


Matt n Lee said:


> Pretty small. I plan to process them myself so they need to be manageable in size. 225-250lbs max. Me and a couple of my sons can handle that size to get it over to the wench.


My processor says the window for slaughter is 250/300# They are mature and will starting gaining fat instead of meat.


Matt n Lee said:


> Oh man those are some cute pig butts! Keeping from getting sweet on the pigs might be the hardest part


It's easy to become disattached to them. Especially when handing over that money at the feed stores.. lol
But the BBQ smell takes the edge off it a lot..


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## Farmer Connie

Farmer Connie said:


> I will have to research that when I'm not mobile.. So don't hold me to that..lol. trying to remember who told me..
> 
> My processor says the window for slaughter is 250/300# They are mature and will starting gaining fat instead of meat.
> 
> It's easy to become disattached to them. Especially when handing over that money at the feed stores.. lol
> But the BBQ smell takes the edge off it a lot..



I texted hubby.. he says not_ raw meat_. And *he* chooses not to provide any at all. He also said it is illegal is some places the feed pork meat to swine...
So please disregard my previous statement.


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## Pastor Dave

Didn't you ever watch Sopranos? Take the body out to some farm in New Jersey or New York state and feed it to the hogs. Nothing left to identify or prove there was a body.


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## Farmer Connie

frustratedearthmother said:


> Sorry - but pigs are not vegetarians.  They will, all on their own, capture and eat whatever meat product they can...be it your favorite chicken or even a baby goat.
> 
> "Pigs are, in fact, omnivores. They are opportunistic and will eat whatever is available and appeals to them, including what they can catch or *carrion*. Domestic pigs have been known to snatch and eat poultry and small animals."  _https://www.minipiginfo.com/common-myths-about-pigs.html
> _
> Mine will eat crawdads, and snakes in a heartbeat.  A chicken that got squashed in a feeding frenzy was a delicacy to them.  Omnivores - not vegetarians.


I changed my wording.. thank you.. 
I have mini goats and chickens running with my Duroc Sow.. lol..
My Hamps would go after a goat though..


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## Farmer Connie

Pastor Dave said:


> Didn't you ever watch Sopranos? Take the body out to some farm in New Jersey or New York state and feed it to the hogs. Nothing left to identify or prove there was a body.


Also that Brad pit movie that fed the boxers to the pigs.. I don't recall the name


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## Matt n Lee

Farmer Connie said:


> I texted hubby.. he says not_ raw meat_. And *he* chooses not to provide any at all. He also said it is illegal is some places the feed pork meat to swine...
> So please disregard my previous statement.



No worries at all Connie. Also we wont be feeding pork to our piggies, even if its allowed I just dont like it.


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## Latestarter

Matt n Lee said:


> Me and a couple of my sons can handle that size to get it over to the wench.



I had a wench once... didn't need my son's help. I was on a mini deployment to Subic Bay in the PI... Oh, wait... that's a story for another place and time  
Or did you mean (I hope not) wife?  I hope you meant winch...   I'm by myself here (& not so young anymore) so in the interest of my health I think when the time comes I'll pay to have it processed.


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## Farmer Connie

Matt n Lee said:


> No worries at all Connie. Also we wont be feeding pork to our piggies, even if its allowed I just dont like it.


My hub came home and told me about the veg thingy.. where I heard it.. He does the selling and advertises them as veg protein raised... soybean/corn/barley etc and not meat protein rasied..
sorry for the confusion...


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## Sara Ranch

@Farmer Connie - it's all good.    Sure wish you and I lived closer to each other. 

Heck, any pig farmers close to me?  WV? Maryland?  Penn?  VA?  OH?  I miss having pigs and fresh pork.  This place isn't set up for pigs yet.  That will take time.


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## lobanz

Matt n Lee said:


> Been reading pig threads all day and I up and bought some pigs! I found a guy on CL with hampshire yorkshire cross. got 2 cut males 35lbs and 40 lbs each for 100 bucks. I have t pick them up in the morning before work, but the real scary part will be telling my wife when I get home
> [...]




HA!  I feel your pain.   I bought 7 American Guinea Hogs off Craigslist all for $100 -- an intact boar, his 4 sisters (1 pregnant), and 2 unrelated females.  I sold 2 females to a friend.  And then when the sow had her litter, I sold 3 piglets to the same friend.  BUT, it turns out that ALL 6 FEMALES WERE PREGNANT!  Those 7 pigs have since turned into *40*!    They are making my rabbits look lazy!

Anyone want some piglets?  Bulk pricing available!  


--- Lobanz


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## Mini Horses

lobanz said:


> Anyone want some piglets? Bulk pricing available!



 I feel your pain!   

AGHs are very well natured but, I have all the problems I can handle right now!!      My computer has issues, 2 hrs on phone with tech support,  the loaner fm DD is a laptop that I am not familiar with......I need to get work reports done ON computer.....knock on my door says one goat out and one stuck in fence.      Yeah, a pig right now would not be safe!


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## Latestarter

Man... all this pig talk... Had bacon for breakfast and eating slow roasted country style ribs right now between typing...


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## SheepGirl

Sara Ranch said:


> @Farmer Connie - it's all good.    Sure wish you and I lived closer to each other.
> 
> Heck, any pig farmers close to me?  WV? Maryland?  Penn?  VA?  OH?  I miss having pigs and fresh pork.  This place isn't set up for pigs yet.  That will take time.



I am about 15 minutes from the WV border in Washington County, MD. Not sure how far that is away from you, but we are about 30 minutes from Martinsburg. If you want some pork, I have two 350 lb gilts I could sell you  We just butchered two this past weekend.


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## Pastor Dave

[QUOTE="Mini Horses, post: 526699, member: 13842".....knock on my door says one goat out and one stuck in fence.      Yeah, a pig right now would not be safe!   [/QUOTE]

I would think it might be the goats that might not be safe right now.


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## Sara Ranch

@Pastor Dave - how about an indoor pig?    It might be safe, right?

I have my dogs test the goat pastures and the cattle pastures.  They find a lot of escape routes that just weren't visible to me.  (Good doggies!)  Once the doggies are better trained, they will probably be in the goat pasture with the goats to help prevent the escapes.  *fingers crossed*


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## AClark

Latestarter said:


> I had a wench once... didn't need my son's help. I was on a mini deployment to Subic Bay in the PI... Oh, wait... that's a story for another place and time
> Or did you mean (I hope not) wife?  I hope you meant winch...   I'm by myself here (& not so young anymore) so in the interest of my health I think when the time comes I'll pay to have it processed.



Haha, definitely take it in. On our excursion of "our buddy shot 5 wild hogs and gave them to us" I learned after the 2nd monster sized hog that was in excess of 400 lbs, that no, it's just too much on me and DH. I spent the better part of a day standing on a step ladder, I smelled AWFUL, was greasy, and really tired and sore.
We don't have a winch, what I ended up doing was using a big tow rope, threw it over a large branch, and around the hogs feet on one side, and to my bumper on the other and pulled it up in a tree with the truck. It works.

When it comes time for our two, they are going to the processing plant. I don't mind the blood and guts as much as the grease and how exhausted we were. Even Dawn dish soap struggled with that greasy feeling.


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## Baymule

We slaughtered 3 in June, 1 for us, 2 for friends. We have 2 at the processor now. I would slaughter our own pigs again.


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## Pastor Dave

I had a friend from church work on my Taurus .380 TCP. It would not chamber last round. He brought it over to shoot it to show me the improvements. It was great. He wouldn't take money, so I gave him some rabbit sausage and summer sausage. I am glad I can process to give some away here and there.


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## Baymule

I am sure the rabbit sausage you gave him was worth more than any money you could have paid him.


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## Pastor Dave

The time I put into it makes it too expensive to sell. Lol


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## AClark

Baymule said:


> We slaughtered 3 in June, 1 for us, 2 for friends. We have 2 at the processor now. I would slaughter our own pigs again.



I think domestics are easier than ferals. The skinning was the worst part of it all really. Regardless, I will take my domestics to the slaughterhouse for that. Our local one won't do feral hogs so those are on us, and I won't mess with anything I can't pick up on my own anymore either. The sheer size factor made it difficult. Once hanging, two of them were taller than me, and it just wore me out skinning back legs and trying not to dump gut contents on the meat.


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## Matt n Lee

Well we have a pig update. Got the fencing done and the little guys are on pasture. I also go in trouble for uploading the waking up the pigs video without DW permission. I will NOT be making that mistake again  Enjoy.


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## misfitmorgan

Congrats on the piggies!!

Bit late here but those pigs are very small for those ages.
4 weeks = 15lbs
8 weeks = 45lbs
12 weeks = 85-90lbs
16 weeks = 145lbs
20 weeks = 210lbs
24 weeks = 265lbs
Those are all approximate but your pigs should have weighed 85-90lbs and 145lbs at 3 and 4 months old which is about 3 times what they weighed. This means either the pigs are not what you were told they were, they were not fed properly, or its a bad line genetically. 

We had a line of pigs with the same problem, they were fed and fed and not growing so we got rid of them for slaughter and the parents went too. If your piggies have not put on a large amount of weight gain since you have got them, you will want to start feeding them a good hog feed or you will still be trying to feed them up come spring. 

Pigs grow based on their feed aka nutrition, you can literally hold a pig at a weight by limiting feed. We practice this with our breeding pigs they are fed to the weight we want and then diet is adjusted using shell corn to keep them lean but filled out enough for carrying a litter of piglets and nursing them. Shell corn doesnt digest well but keeps their tummies full along with hay, they do get pig and sow feed still just less then when they are bred or have piglets on the ground. Fat gilts/sows have complications when being bred more often then not, fat boars are lazy breeders generally giving smaller litter sizes. 

Our pigs get pig and sow, shell corn(dry), hay, when we have them apples, carrots, sugar beets, pumpkin, squash, and any veggie kitchen scraps. Atm our big breeder girls get 8 scoops of shell corn and 3 scoops of pig and sow, they are all over 400lbs and lean. We have a pen with our 3 herefords and 2 barrow they get 3 scoops of shell corn and 3 scoops of pig and sow. A scoop is one of the 3lb scoops. The hereford pen gets more pig and sow because we are growing them to size, the shell corn is to keep them full but allow us to put weight on them just a tad slower then straight pig and sow to make sure their skeletons keep up.

I'm not trying to be a debbie downer, they should be around 250lbs by 6 months old. We have had our own issues with our pigs like suddenly be short on pens so the barrows were put in pasture with the goats and sheep which ment we couldnt feed them like we were doing and they got less feed overall. We ended up with stunted piggies, we currently have two barrows that are only around 200lbs but were born in march if i recall correctly so they are about 2 months behind and will likely end up 3 months behind by the time we butcher.


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## Matt n Lee

@misfitmorgan that is eye opening information. The pigs have NOT grown as much as I would have expected, but being first time pig keepers I wasnt sure what I should be looking for. They were definitely worm infested when we got them, but we were able to clean them out using a LOT of pumpkin and a bit of tobacco and now they seem to have cleaned up very well. 3 and 4 months old were just what the breeder told me. I doubt he keeps any real records. I think its time we get a measured weight of our own and see where they are and start tracking their growth rate. We currently feed them twice a day. It will be a mix of hog feed/wet cracked corn with quite a bit of scraps from a local cafe. like half a 5 gallon bucket full. 

Maybe we should start going with free choice on the feed. They are hungry in the morning which is another sign their worm load is way down because they had very little appetite in the beginning. The video above shows the pigs as of 1 week ago at the end when they are in the kiddy pool. I would say they are filling out a bit more but it isnt any dramatic change. Ill try to get a new video of us tape measuring them and then calculating the weight.


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## misfitmorgan

I cant watch the video as i am at work atm but i will watch it on my lunch break today. 

Get a weight on them and then keep feeding them as you are. Once you get the current weight i can let you know what they should be gaining, after that you can measure them in a week again and see if your feed needs to be changed. The cafe scraps are not the best thing ever only because of all the refined things in human food but calories are calories and i doubt that small amount is hurting them any. What kind of hog feed are you giving them in that mix?

I'm going to guess they should be gaining between 1  1/3 to 1 1/2lbs per day. So at the end of the week if they are getting the amount of feed and the type of feed they need they should have gained 9-10lbs, the growth rate is exponential so the bigger they get the more weight per day they gain. Measuring them wont be dead accurate but you should be able to tell if they have gained near what they should or not.

This is my same chart from my first post with approximate daily gain and daily feed intake added to it. The feed amount is based on feeding a commercial hog feed with appropriate protein, vitamin/minerals, etc so I expect your pigs will be eating a larger volume as their diet is lower in protein. Thats not bad per say just a difference to be aware of.
Age          Weight      Gain       Feed
4 weeks = 15lbs       0.5lbs      0.75lbs
8 weeks = 45lbs       1.3lbs      2.25lbs
12 weeks = 85-90lbs 1.6lbs     3lbs
16 weeks = 145lbs    2.15lbs   4.25lbs
20 weeks = 210lbs    2.5lbs     5.3lbs
24 weeks = 265lbs    2.4lbs     5.9lbs

Not really related but i would also point out this chart shows why we butcher at 6 months/250-300lbs. You'll notice the gain goes down while the feed still goes up, at that point its a losing battle.


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## Baymule

I fed my pigs free feed until they went to slaughter. Before slaughter, 3 pigs were eating 50 pounds every other day.


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## misfitmorgan

no mistake made they will eat more then the listed amounts if it's available, the listed amount is the minimum needed to gain weight at the rate shown, purebred and heritage breeds will always need more to gain and will eat more.

That chart is for mixed breed pigs, they have hybrid vigour.


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## Bossroo

misfitmorgan said:


> no mistake made they will eat more then the listed amounts if it's available, the listed amount is the minimum needed to gain weight at the rate shown, purebred and heritage breeds will always need more to gain and will eat more.
> 
> That chart is for mixed breed pigs, they have hybrid vigour.


The hybrid vigor thing may or not apply as it all depends on which genes are dominant or recessive in each individual.


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## misfitmorgan

If you are breeding correctly you dont breed stock that doesnt show the hybrid vigor themselves. If we get stock with crumby lines they go to freezer camp. 

Bad litters, freezer camp
Bad attitude, freezer camp
Bad weight gain, freezer camp
Bad weight retention, freezer camp
Need for excess feed, freezer camp
Slow growth, freezer camp
Failure to thrive in general, freezer camp
Gilt going nuts after farrow, freezer camp

Those are the reasons we maintain a small breeding herd and end up with a large number of freezer pigs. Most people will breed to breed or breed anything, nothing wrong with that if your only after a few meat pigs. Our goal is to have the best meat pigs we can and the best show quality stock we can, so we dont breed just anything. That's why we got into pigs again, because the only thing available locally was junk pigs, those with no choice were forced to buy those junk pigs for $75-$125 a piece,  those with a choice were driving 3+hrs one way to buy show stock at $200-$300 a piece. This was all for 4-h kids, thats why we got into pigs again, same reason for the suffolk sheep.


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## Latestarter




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## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> If you are breeding correctly you dont breed stock that doesnt show the hybrid vigor themselves. If we get stock with crumby lines they go to freezer camp.
> 
> Bad litters, freezer camp
> Bad attitude, freezer camp
> Bad weight gain, freezer camp
> Bad weight retention, freezer camp
> Need for excess feed, freezer camp
> Slow growth, freezer camp
> Failure to thrive in general, freezer camp
> Gilt going nuts after farrow, freezer camp
> 
> Those are the reasons we maintain a small breeding herd and end up with a large number of freezer pigs. Most people will breed to breed or breed anything, nothing wrong with that if your only after a few meat pigs. Our goal is to have the best meat pigs we can and the best show quality stock we can, so we dont breed just anything. That's why we got into pigs again, because the only thing available locally was junk pigs, those with no choice were forced to buy those junk pigs for $75-$125 a piece,  those with a choice were driving 3+hrs one way to buy show stock at $200-$300 a piece. This was all for 4-h kids, thats why we got into pigs again, same reason for the suffolk sheep.


You are building a good name for your pigs, it will pay off. When someone wants good breeding stock, they will come to you. Plus, your pigs are eye candy!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> You are building a good name for your pigs, it will pay off. When someone wants good breeding stock, they will come to you. Plus, your pigs are eye candy!


 Thank you @Baymule


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## misfitmorgan

Matt n Lee said:


> @misfitmorgan that is eye opening information. The pigs have NOT grown as much as I would have expected, but being first time pig keepers I wasnt sure what I should be looking for. They were definitely worm infested when we got them, but we were able to clean them out using a LOT of pumpkin and a bit of tobacco and now they seem to have cleaned up very well. 3 and 4 months old were just what the breeder told me. I doubt he keeps any real records. I think its time we get a measured weight of our own and see where they are and start tracking their growth rate. We currently feed them twice a day. It will be a mix of hog feed/wet cracked corn with quite a bit of scraps from a local cafe. like half a 5 gallon bucket full.
> 
> Maybe we should start going with free choice on the feed. They are hungry in the morning which is another sign their worm load is way down because they had very little appetite in the beginning. The video above shows the pigs as of 1 week ago at the end when they are in the kiddy pool. I would say they are filling out a bit more but it isnt any dramatic change. Ill try to get a new video of us tape measuring them and then calculating the weight.



How did the pig taping go?


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## Matt n Lee

misfitmorgan said:


> How did the pig taping go?



not successful  We may have a good FAILURE to measure pigs video coming! They just werent having it and their pin is so large there is really no way to force them into it. I will be uploading a video later with just a pig update, please take a look they seem TINY to me honestly. They are gaining weight but SLOWLY. We have had them a month and I feel like a month is a LONG time for a pig and we should be able to look at them be like "WOW look how much they have grown" and that is definitely not the case. Also the larger of the two is built like a damn bulldog instead of a pig and he runs and jumps around a lot. Very surprising stuff.


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## misfitmorgan

Matt n Lee said:


> not successful  We may have a good FAILURE to measure pigs video coming! They just werent having it and their pin is so large there is really no way to force them into it. I will be uploading a video later with just a pig update, please take a look they seem TINY to me honestly. They are gaining weight but SLOWLY. We have had them a month and I feel like a month is a LONG time for a pig and we should be able to look at them be like "WOW look how much they have grown" and that is definitely not the case. Also the larger of the two is built like a damn bulldog instead of a pig and he runs and jumps around a lot. Very surprising stuff.



Smaller pigs do run and jump and play a lot so long as they are healthy and happy....even our big pigs will run and play just kind of more in slow motion  The pigs really should have grown a noticeable amount in a month, in small pigs after about 2 weeks of good feed you should have seen quite noticeable growth. I will go thru and watch all your pig videos this evening....if time allows.

If you want to try to tape them again, withhold the morning feeding and then during the evening feeding while they are eating try to tape...generally pigs are a lot more tolerant when they are eating. If it still doesnt work, try the same thing again but just pet them a bit, eventually they wont care what you do while they are eating and will be a lot more tolerant of things you need to do when they are not eating. This is how we break pigs we didnt raise to accept and want us touching them.....except our mini boar he is just a jerk.


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## Matt n Lee

Here is some footage from this weekend. You can see they have grown. It just doesnt seem to be that significant of growth for a month. I will say that, because they were loaded with worms when we got them, I think we have been playing catch-up and we are hopeful that their growth rate will continue to increase now that they are healthier. Also I can say with confidence they are MUCH happier pigs. Enjoy. If yall like these videos please like subscribe and comment it really helps the channel and we would love to hear from you.


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## Bruce

Being listed as a featured thread gets you new "visitors" 



frustratedearthmother said:


> Sorry - but pigs are not vegetarians. They will, all on their own, capture and eat whatever meat product they can


Just like chickens. Vegetarian is NOT a natural thing for them. Anyone who tells you their chickens were pasture raised and vegetarian fed is lying (or really ignorant). Even chickens kept cooped up and fed vegetarian chicken food will likely find a bug or two to eat and those out foraging will get a lot of insect, worm, etc protein in their diet. My chickens fight for any meat scraps that come out of the kitchen. I expect pigs would be similar. The chickens also love bacon grease. I guess you can feed your chicken meat scraps to the pigs and pig meat scraps to the chickens.



Farmer Connie said:


> He also said it is illegal is some places the feed pork meat to swine...


Trichinosis. When commercial farmers stopped feeding pork to pigs (per new laws), pigs stopped getting Trichinosis. That is why you no longer have to cook commercial pork until it is grey and dry. The high heat was needed to kill the Trichina worm cysts in the meat. Assuming one's own pigs do not have Trichinosis (which in this country should be beyond rare now), no need to ruin that meat by over cooking either. 



Farmer Connie said:


> My hub came home and told me about the veg thingy.. where I heard it.. He does the selling and advertises them as veg protein raised... soybean/corn/barley etc and not meat protein rasied..
> sorry for the confusion...


What is the purported "value" of a vegetarian raised pig?


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## Bossroo

What is the purported "value" of a vegetarian raised pig?[/QUOTE]NONE , other than for vegetarians and vegans who don't know any better for proper nutrition for the human body's needs and what it was designed to be through evolution.


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## Matt n Lee

Pig update! I also want to show how much pigs actually root


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## Bruce

What do you do after they have tilled the "to be" garden area?? Do you have other areas that you want tilled or will they just make a mess of their pasture?


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## Matt n Lee

Bruce said:


> What do you do after they have tilled the "to be" garden area?? Do you have other areas that you want tilled or will they just make a mess of their pasture?



Well they will end their days in that area. They are feeders, not breeders.


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## Matt n Lee

Earlier in this thread I was talking about how the pigs arent growing very fast. Im wondering if those with feeder pig experience can take a look at the videos and give me your opinion on 2 months of growth. I feel like their growth rate is improving a lot now, but I still think they are pretty small for what would be 5 and 6 months old. What do yall think?


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## Baymule

Do you have them on free feed? Or do you feed them a set amount daily? Mine seemed to grow best with a bin feeder that they could open the flap and eat what they wanted. I didn't watch most of the video, on satellite internet. Videos don't play well and my internet amount is metered. So I skipped ahead. It was hard to get an idea of their size, but measuring them against the hay bales, they look average size for 5 months.


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## Matt n Lee

Baymule said:


> Do you have them on free feed? Or do you feed them a set amount daily? Mine seemed to grow best with a bin feeder that they could open the flap and eat what they wanted. I didn't watch most of the video, on satellite internet. Videos don't play well and my internet amount is metered. So I skipped ahead. It was hard to get an idea of their size, but measuring them against the hay bales, they look average size for 5 months.



We feed them twice daily, but their food tub is never empty by the time they get their next bucket...so it is sorta free choice feed. Thanks for the guestimate on their size. I know the larger of the two is big and strong enough at this point that when he gets rough(and he does) it is a bit scary. We are trying to go into their pin as little as possible now and I keep my dog around just in case something silly happens she will get after the pigs if I call her. Dont get me wrong they havent been vicious or anything just pushy and mouthy on my boots, but its enough that I watch them now.


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## Baymule

Our first feeder pigs were too close for comfort, I carried a 5' piece of pipe in their pen. The second feeder pigs never gave me that creepy feeling up my back. The 3rd hogs got mean enough that I quit going in their pen. 

Before I get feeder pigs again, I will build a dedicated hog pen with shelter and access to feeding and watering them from the outside.


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## Matt n Lee

We used electric fencing for their area...they figured that out REAL fast and were trained to it in 1 day. We now keep their feed tub near the wire same with their waterer and we can feed and water without having to step inside. We did however have to go in just a couple of days ago to adjust their shelter and put more hay for the cold weather. we got pushed around a bit and boots get bit. My most effective move is to start scratching him on the neck and back...he really likes it and tends to chill out a bit


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## farmerjan

Considering that they were wormy when you got them, they look pretty healthy and well fleshed for their size.  But they are small in my opinion.  
I was watching the video and caught most of what you are feeding them.  It is not a diet designed for weight gain.  I know there are differing opinions, but we do not feed any meat to our hogs.  Period.  The "old days" it was a real invite for Trich.  I also feel it makes them more aggressive and if a chicken or something got in there, it would be dinner faster than a speeding bullet. We also feed free choice grain/hog feed.   The hogs can access the feeder anytime they want.   CORN is a veg - well actually it is a grain -  but it is what any/all animals are fed for weight gain.  It will not put on just fat because they are getting plenty of exercise to develop their muscles which will give you a firmer meat.   Bread and milk will help with the weight gain, but too much will make a softer meat.  Mine got all the veg waste from the garden, any waste fruits and other things like pumpkins, squash, whatever I had,  milk especially soured,  but they were also fed a balanced hog feed with the needed protein in order to get their bones and muscles to grow and develop.  Normally by 6 months they should weigh 150 lbs or MORE.  These are obviously purebreds due to the ear notching.  Some of them are too closely bred so maybe they are from a line that is smaller than most Hamps.  I was breeding my gilts at 8 months to farrow at 1 year and they were well over 200 when they had their first litter.
I also think that there may be some differences in the temps you have as opposed to ours further north.  They may not gain as fast in the warmer climate. I don't have any experience with temps any further south than here in Va..

I think you would have a better weight gain if they were getting a balanced hog grower type feed with the needed protein (often from soybeans)  for bone and muscle growth, and with added corn for both energy and to put weight on them.  Along with any all veg garden fruit that you have.


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## farmerjan

Hogs can get very pushy.  The trick is to set limits from the very first.  Don't let them ever chew on your boots, sneakers, clothes, anything.  A good short stick and a serious tap on the nose will help.  Pigs love attention.  Rubs and scratches are very good ways to direct their wanting attention and being pushy, to being very happy to see you.  We have had a few mean ones, but very few.  A mean sow never got a second chance.  They can tear you apart fast.  But I have attended to many sows over the years while farrowing and worked in the pens with them while their pigs are there.  Still, you never relax your vigilance.   By the same token, the less interaction you have with them, ie. in and out of the pen, the more likely they will seem more aggressive because they have not been taught to respect you.  They can be trained like a dog, and are pretty dang smart.  But you can't let them get away with murder when they are  sooooo cute, then expect them to understand that at 100 lbs it is not allowed anymore.


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## Matt n Lee

Very good info there @farmerjan . It might not be showing in the videos but they are getting a balanced hog feed along with the scraps you are seeing. They are actually Hampshire/Yorkshire mix I dont know if that matters on your assessment. They do seem very lean and powerfully built to be honest. Surprisingly so, but Im a complete hog noobie so everything is surprising to me at this point. I would think the larger(older by 1 month) is 100lbs. He wont allow for a full measuring and it isnt so important to me that I am willing to force him. So their weights will just be guesses until I get a hanging weight.


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## farmerjan

No, I didn't see the hog feed so that is definitely a plus in your favor.  They just might be going through the catchup phase after getting them wormed. 
One thing you might not realize is that todays' hogs in general,  are much leaner than than hogs of old.  All the more "modern breeds" today have been developed to be leaner because hog fat (lard) is not wanted by processors.  You would have to go to some of the older less "modernized breeds" , like large blacks, some lines of chesters, gloucester (sp?) old spots,  to get more of a "fat" type hog.  Yorks have been bred away from fat, Hamps and some others too.  Durocs still retain some of their fattier aspects.  Tamwoths are very lean and good graziers.  So, you have some of the best cross for a good lean meat  hog.  Extra milk and "fattier food" like waste bread, will make them put on some fat, but they are not really bred for it.


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## Matt n Lee

I had read as much about the newer breeds being leaner and it makes sense with the lack of people using lard. I guess what I find interesting is that seem to be built in the shape of bulldog more than a pig. We did recently start getting fresh milk from our neighbor and the pigs are getting some of that as well as whey when we make cheese. I might make an effort to get them more bread since you mentioned it. We have a day old bakery place near by.


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## misfitmorgan

Sometimes you just have slow growing pigs. That is why we just butchered our two barrows. They have been on the same feed as everyone else, in the same pens, etc but just wouldn't put on weight. The barrows were a berk cross that were born in april, we just butchered them finally and they were only approx 225lbs. That's 8+ months old and only around 225lbs, they should have been 250+lbs  at 6 months old. Our hereford trio are just 7 months old and are larger then the barrows were by 50-75lbs.

Are you after lard? The fattest pig we have atm is a chester white, she is so fat she cant even open her eyes all the way and she is on the same feed and in the same pen as our other big girls who are all trim and in excellent condition for farrow. Our lean girls are Duroc, Berk, York, and a tiny bit of spot, our hereford trio is really impressively lean but they come from show stock.

I would agree with @farmerjan if you want lard look for Large Black(LBP), mulefoot, Spot, or potbelly. The cross you have is going to be an uphill battle to get fat on them and to get it to stick, by the time you have them anything near the fat a "lard pig" would have your going to have $15 porkchops. Also keep in mind there are two pig types....lard pigs and bacon pigs...it hards to get both off one animal. If you set on needing lard....raise them past 250lbs and pick females. After 250lbs pigs put on more fat then muscle per lb of feed and females are always more fatty then males, additionally butcher in late fall/early winter when they are storing up fat reserves for winter.


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## Matt n Lee

Thanks for your insight @misfitmorgan . We very well may have slow growing pigs, which wouldnt be the end of the world for us. I dont have any heavy equipment and we will be processing at home so I cant let them get too big anyway. 

We arent after lard. I was just expressing my surprise at how lean they are. I think before you have pigs you have ideas in your head about what you expect them to be and they have been surprising on a few points for us. Their build I mentioned, but their athleticism has been surprising, also they wont eat just anything. I have had them turn their nose up to a few different things. They definitely have a preference to wet hog feed versus just dry out of the bag. Just different things you learn by having them, that you likely wont pick up just by researching them. 

Im looking at processing in February at the latest. I will do it earlier if I think they are getting too big for me and my boys to lift. Somewhere from 180-200lbs ish is what Im shooting for. So basically double the size of the larger hog in the video.


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## farmerjan

I think you will be pleasantly surprised with them the end of  Feb.  They may not be as big as you had pictured in your mind, but I think they will weigh more than you think because it will be lean muscle;  I think they will have nice hams and pork chops and such.  Hopefully too they will have nice bacon. 
Hamps,  and yorks for that matter are more athletic than some other breeds.  My durocs weren't near as active and the Chester whites were just as laid back as they come.  Landrace and tamworths are VERY lean and the Landrace are known as bacon hogs.  Berks are a nice middle of the road and the meat is very good as their meat will actually marble.  I really liked the hamp/duroc cross for both disposition and carcass.   Besides we had some really cute little red with white belts on the piglets.


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## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Landrace are known as bacon hogs.


 YUM!


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## Baymule

We hung our hogs from the tractor front end bucket. Handy. You said you don't have any equipment......oh, but you do.. You have a car or truck. Do you have a tree branch to toss a rope over? Hoist up the pig with the car or truck bumper. If not a tree branch, do you have a swing set or A frame for pulling motors? Get creative!


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## misfitmorgan

Your definitely correct about pigs being athletic and active. I believe most of us still picture pigs as those ones we saw in cartoons, where they lazily just sleep in the mud all day and dont do much moving or the alternative which is feeder floor/confinement where there is no room to play/romp.

Everyone i know who sees our pigs out in pasture is shocked at them running and playing, i was too at first. If your not after lard i think you will like your pigs a lot when it comes to eating time. Keep in mind pigs weigh more then they look generally and dead weight is dead weight. I am on board with @Baymule  i think your going to need to hang those hogs up from something. We do have a gambrel and a hoist we use but sometimes like this past weekend we butcher more then once pig at a time. So pig 1 as hung on the gambrel so DH could work on butchering it and pig 2 was hung from the rafters of our workshop with baling twine looped around the "ankles".


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## Matt n Lee

Baymule said:


> We hung our hogs from the tractor front end bucket. Handy. You said you don't have any equipment......oh, but you do.. You have a car or truck. Do you have a tree branch to toss a rope over? Hoist up the pig with the car or truck bumper. If not a tree branch, do you have a swing set or A frame for pulling motors? Get creative!



When I said we dont have heavy equipment I meant we dont have a tractor. So the plan is basically after dispatching of the pig to place him on a pallet and for 4 of us (DH,DW, twin 16 year old sons) to grab a corner and move him to our covered porch. once on the covered porch we will use a block and tackle or possibly a come-a-long to hoist the hog and go to work. I plan this for feb so that after scraping and eviscerating we can let the carcass hang for a few days outside while its cold and no flies. Then come back and start butchering. In the past I have done sheep this way, but they are not heavy and we basically just lifted them and didnt need a come-a-long.

There will be plenty of video on this process that I will definitely post here


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## Baymule

While he is hanging you might want to drape a sheet over him. I have never hung meat before, in Southern meat processing, meat is "aged" in an ice chest. LOL LOL I will be especially interested in the scraping process.


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## misfitmorgan

That  is one nice thing about the north, we can age meat for 30 days by just leaving it hanging outside....no outside bugs here from about mid-december until the end of march sometimes april.

@Baymule DH wants to scald and scrape Eva when we butcher her....he wants to do it this weekend....i told him he is nuts...i'm hoping to wait until next weekend when it isnt negative something.


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## Baymule

Hanging meat outside where you live isn't aging it, that's freezing it.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Hanging meat outside where you live isn't aging it, that's freezing it.



You may have a point...it comes in handy though.


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## Matt n Lee

Well this isnt a pig video, but all my BYH BFFs are in this thread so I am posting here


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## Matt n Lee

Ok pig people we need your help. Does this look like a hernia to you? Is there anything we should do about it?

Should I start a new thread to get more eyes on this?


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## farmerjan

Yes it looks like a hernia.  And yes, they have "belly buttons" as they are mammals and have an attachment to the placenta when they are in utero.  Hernias are not that uncommon, usually appearing one of 2 times;  either early on when they are small or later when they are getting bigger and close to butchering.  If he is peeing fine, then I wouldn't get too worried at this point.  Sometimes they seem to "grow out of"  the ones that appear when small.  There usually isn't any real "surgery" to do as it is too risky, and costly. And I would never keep one for breeding that has a hernia.  Basically I would just keep an eye on it.  If it gets too big then he needs to be butchered then.  Since you are only going to keep them for another month or so, let's hope that he will just keep on as is and the butchering will take care of it.   
@misfitmorgan  might have another opinion.


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## misfitmorgan

farmerjan said:


> Yes it looks like a hernia.  And yes, they have "belly buttons" as they are mammals and have an attachment to the placenta when they are in utero.  Hernias are not that uncommon, usually appearing one of 2 times;  either early on when they are small or later when they are getting bigger and close to butchering.  If he is peeing fine, then I wouldn't get too worried at this point.  Sometimes they seem to "grow out of"  the ones that appear when small.  There usually isn't any real "surgery" to do as it is too risky, and costly. And I would never keep one for breeding that has a hernia.  Basically I would just keep an eye on it.  If it gets too big then he needs to be butchered then.  Since you are only going to keep them for another month or so, let's hope that he will just keep on as is and the butchering will take care of it.
> @misfitmorgan  might have another opinion.



Not at all. A small hernia in a butcher pig you will be butchering soon should be ok. As Long as he is eating and using the bathroom fine he should be ok for another month at least. @farmerjan is correct the hernia do sometimes fix themselves but are not worth fixing in a butcher pig and as she mentioned most people wouldn't use a pig with a hernia for breeding stock.


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## Matt n Lee

Thank yall....We were of the mindset to handle it exactly as yall are describing @farmerjan and @misfitmorgan , but it does help set my mind at ease when more experienced people confirm this stuff.


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## Matt n Lee

We do have a new update. "Movin on up..."

The pigs have been sooo cute that they have earned themselves a new house/shanty


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## Bruce

"The pigs have gone through the first house, the second house and now we are going to build them a third shelter"
For some reason the Big Bad Wolf came to mind!

I think shelter # 3 will serve well.


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## Matt n Lee

Bruce said:


> "The pigs have gone through the first house, the second house and now we are going to build them a third shelter"
> For some reason the Big Bad Wolf came to mind!
> 
> I think shelter # 3 will serve well.



Oh man that is awesome! How did this NOT occur to me??!!


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## misfitmorgan

Really wish i could watch these videos at work


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## Matt n Lee

misfitmorgan said:


> Really wish i could watch these videos at work



oh man DONT get in trouble 

but they DO work on your phone with the youtube app...just sayin...but DONT get in trouble!!


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## misfitmorgan

Matt n Lee said:


> oh man DONT get in trouble
> 
> but they DO work on your phone with the youtube app...just sayin...but DONT get in trouble!!



Haha i know they do but i work in an office so i would have to watch without sound. I will just wait until i get home......then probly forget.....but i will try my best not too.


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## Bruce

In this case you can figure out what is happening without sound. I already quoted the most interesting part 

No headphones at work? I used them so I could listen to music while I worked and not bother anyone.


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> In this case you can figure out what is happening without sound. I already quoted the most interesting part
> 
> No headphones at work? I used them so I could listen to music while I worked and not bother anyone.



We are allowed headphones i'm just to cheap to buy some.....i have bills man!!!  No really i hardly ever spend money on stuff for myself so i've worked here for 4yrs without headphones so far. Funniest part is we do computer based OSHA/company required training on our pcs a few times a year(videos and slide shows mostly) i've never heard the videos, pass the tests fine though every time.


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## Bruce

Yeah those videos are usually just someone basically reading the text on the slides, no real value add to the audio. 

I bought a cheap pair of earbuds at Wallyworld to replace the ones I got on JetBlue for $5 (because I forgot to bring some), I'm pretty sure they were < $8. I use them when I'm watching old TV shows on my computer in the late evening.


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## Matt n Lee

This thread is bringing me some real insight as to who you are as people  Someone too cheap for earbuds and someone else who watches old tv shows on his computer. Now tell the truth...do either of you smoke a pipe or own house slippers?


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## Bruce

One needs slippers in a "cool" house  I don't smoke anything.

It is interesting to watch TV shows from the '50s. You get to see people who are quite famous now, not so much back then. The ones I've seen I had to go back to the show and look at them closely after seeing their name in the credits. Adam West, some guy named Clint Eastwood  both in their early 20's. Shelley Fabares at 12, couldn't tell it was her but 12 Y/Os change a lot.

Also interesting to me are the politically correct (though maybe not so much at the time) aspects the producers decided to put in. Native Americans were still called Indians then but several episodes show them as humans and the victims they were, not the usual "Cowboys (good) and Indians (savages)" thing we usually think of from the later 1800's when these shows are set. And "To Tell The Truth"? They have 3 contestants, only one is the person they claim to be. The 2 "liars" reveal their names and occupations at the end. 3 black contestants. Not a generic job among them. Doctor, Lawyer, jet fighter pilot - yes when jet fighters were new and novel. Intentionally showing the true capabilities of people who at the time were most often generalized as "less capable than whites" where many times the white contestant's occupations were much more mundane.


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## misfitmorgan

Matt n Lee said:


> This thread is bringing me some real insight as to who you are as people  Someone too cheap for earbuds and someone else who watches old tv shows on his computer. Now tell the truth...do either of you smoke a pipe or own house slippers?



It's not that i'm to cheap for earbuds its that im to cheap to buy them for myself. i actually have bought them for other people in the past 4yrs lol. I had house slippers but after i wore holes thru them i didnt buy myself anymore.....that may have been like 6yrs ago. I just dont really buy stuff for myself unless i absolutely must, like shampoo  and food 

Far as tv shows i watch lots. I've always enjoyed the shows i grew up watching bewitched, i dream of jeannie, green acres, the dick van dyke show, and my favorite show of all time i love lucy. I do mostly watch modern shows now though......netflix doesnt have my old timey ones.


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## Pastor Dave

Those you mention had to have been in syndication and rerun classics. I liked watching Bonanza and Gun Smoke. When someone in the mid 80's, when I was abt 10 told me they were produced and aired in the 60's, I couldn't believe it! Of course I wondered why Pa Ingalls looked so young as Little Joe. 

My shows growung up were Dukes of Hazard, Incredible Hulk, Little House on tbe Prairie. 
NO GOOD SHOWS ANYMORE. 

I gotta have my house shoes/slippers, or I kick objects and bruise toes. I use a slip on type Croc in summer and a fleece lined Croc for winter. Jill makes me take my boots off, so I have to have something on that won't dirty up "her" floors.


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## Matt n Lee

Dukes of Hazard followed by spiderman cartoon and then the old Adam West batman was my Saturday morning routine back in the glory days.

and I got my first pair of house slippers for christmas this year. I made many jokes about them, but I wear them daily now 

Is farming (even small homesteading) really such an old person's game? Wanting to feed your family seems like it would be universal regardless of age.


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## misfitmorgan

Matt n Lee said:


> Dukes of Hazard followed by spiderman cartoon and then the old Adam West batman was my Saturday morning routine back in the glory days.
> 
> and I got my first pair of house slippers for christmas this year. I made many jokes about them, but I wear them daily now
> 
> Is farming (even small homesteading) really such an old person's game? Wanting to feed your family seems like it would be universal regardless of age.



It's not an old persons game at all. Many many young people even on this forum are homesteading or farming or hobby farming. I'm guessing by my show reference you think im older then i actually am....i'll just say i havnt hit my middle 30s yet and we have been at this for 4yrs now. Part of the problem is it of course takes a lot of money or time to start homesteading with nothing. In times past you inherited a farm which generally ment the tools to work it as well. Most homesteaders dont have that and have to start at square one most without any out buildings even. After 4 yrs DH and i both still work full time 40hrs/week jobs and still havnt been able to afford a lot of the equipment the farm actually needs. So no i wouldnt say it is an old person game i just would say it takes either a loan, inheritance, or a long time to get there.


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## Matt n Lee

misfitmorgan said:


> It's not an old persons game at all. Many many young people even on this forum are homesteading or farming or hobby farming. I'm guessing by my show reference you think im older then i actually am....i'll just say i havnt hit my middle 30s yet and we have been at this for 4yrs now. Part of the problem is it of course takes a lot of money or time to start homesteading with nothing. In times past you inherited a farm which generally ment the tools to work it as well. Most homesteaders dont have that and have to start at square one most without any out buildings even. After 4 yrs DH and i both still work full time 40hrs/week jobs and still havnt been able to afford a lot of the equipment the farm actually needs. So no i wouldnt say it is an old person game i just would say it takes either a loan, inheritance, or a long time to get there.



I am sure glad to hear this. We have only been at this for 1.5 years and it did take a tremendous leap of faith to get even a few acres. Still working full time as well. I dont really think the farm could ever pay for itself. The goal is to feed us really, with 4 sons and a daughter that is a pretty big ask actually


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## Pastor Dave

I would double click Like your post @misfitmorgan, but it takes the Like away. Lol. I guessed your age range. Mine is posted, and am usually between the geezers like Joe, Fred, Mike, and Bruce,   Love those guys, really do! and the youngsters in their 20's, 30's. 

Used to do a guess your weight and age at a little amusement park. Always guess weight or age low and give out the cheap prize! Keep the ladies happy.


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## Matt n Lee

Pastor Dave said:


> Used to do a guess your weight and age at a little amusement park. Always guess weight or age low and give out the cheap prize! Keep the ladies happy.



Maybe the best life advice ever given on the internet right there!


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## Latestarter

Dang! I've progressed to "Geezer" status...


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## Pastor Dave

In all seriousness, the homesteading and hobby farm is expensive to get into. Land price is inflated so much unless you can clear a ravine and woods and use it. Being self sufficient and living on what you got isn't as easy as it was when I was poor growing up. The idea then was to gain education and get on to prosperous suburban living. Hard to get back to roots.

The 40 hour work week away from the home place is too true also. Folks working themselves to death to be able to be more self sufficient. I am fortunate in that I have my office here on church property. I do chores, then get my laptop out while still in my bibs. If I have to meet up with someone or go away to conduct business, I shower and change clothes accordingly. I am blessed. 

Folks see me in town going about my business in bibs and a hooded sweatshirt with old worn cap and won't recognize me, Lol. They saw me a day earlier with no head cover and in a clergy shirt and suit. I truly am just a redneck pastor, keepin' it real as I can.


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## Latestarter

You're livin' the good life Dave!


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## Pastor Dave

Latestarter said:


> Dang! I've progressed to "Geezer" status...



A couple summers ago when I was the dean for some middle school age kids at church camp, everyone had nicknames. The kids called me Grandpa and my assistants that were college age recruits Mom and Dad. I told them I was the age of most of their folks! I know 40 somethings have grandkids, but Grandparents are supposed to be 60s and Great grandparents are in their 80s if they live that long!


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## misfitmorgan

Matt n Lee said:


> I am sure glad to hear this. We have only been at this for 1.5 years and it did take a tremendous leap of faith to get even a few acres. Still working full time as well. I dont really think the farm could ever pay for itself. The goal is to feed us really, with 4 sons and a daughter that is a pretty big ask actually



Taking the plunge can be scary esp when you look at the cost output vs what your gaining back. We are almost on top of losses and may break even or make a slight profit in 2018. We did make a lot of mistakes which set us back many times. The weather itself played a big part in ruining our plans or our gardens. i'm sure there are many more mistakes to be made but thats how we learn.



Pastor Dave said:


> I would double click Like your post @misfitmorgan, but it takes the Like away. Lol. I guessed your age range. Mine is posted, and am usually between the geezers like Joe, Fred, Mike, and Bruce,   Love those guys, really do! and the youngsters in their 20's, 30's.
> 
> Used to do a guess your weight and age at a little amusement park. Always guess weight or age low and give out the cheap prize! Keep the ladies happy.



If you are in the know and pay attention to the line up of shows you can guess i was watching them on nick at night which gives you a pretty good guess on my age. I've played that game at the amuzement parks, i always won. That guy did not try to guess below your weight but i weigh much more then i look like i do. I think most people esp men are programmed to think that if a person is not very well padded they must weigh a certain amount, they dont account for muscle.....thats not to say i dont have padding as well 



Latestarter said:


> Dang! I've progressed to "Geezer" status...



Your not at geezer status yet?? I thought for sure you got your card in the mail already 



Pastor Dave said:


> A couple summers ago when I was the dean for some middle school age kids at church camp, everyone had nicknames. The kids called me Grandpa and my assistants that were college age recruits Mom and Dad. I told them I was the age of most of their folks! I know 40 somethings have grandkids, but Grandparents are supposed to be 60s and Great grandparents are in their 80s if they live that long!



I agree, my grandparents were geezers and i never knew my greats...now i meet people and their like my grandkid this or that and my jaw drops cause they are the same age as me. I know things happen but more and more it seems to norm to have super young grandparents.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Dang! I've progressed to "Geezer" status...


Well at least you are in the younger half of that geezer list, Mike wins by several years.  But he and Teresa also show you can do stuff when you are "old". He was older than I am now when he started this sheep farm business. @misfitmorgan is about half his age, plenty of years to get a really solid farm going! And step one? Buying the property ... though I think the process aged her a couple of extra years.


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## Pastor Dave

Having the property is definitely the biggest benefit... and headache, relief... and regret...


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## Baymule

Sorry, I seldom watch the videos or I watch a little of it, then click it off. We live in the land of no internet service, so get internet from a satellite. Service is metered and costly for what I get. If I use up all my service, then it goes to dial up which is like waiting for Christmas on December 26.


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## farmerjan

Latestarter said:


> Dang! I've progressed to "Geezer" status...



Don't feel bad, I am in the "lady Geezer" status I guess.   At least, that is how my ankle and knee joints feel.  And yes, working a 40 hour week, or a full time job of varying hours like mine, is pretty much a necessity these days unless you inherit.   I have been growing a garden forever, and my mom did it before me to help feed our family, so I came by it naturally. 

But, being as self-sufficient as possible is always a good thing.  And even if you only grow enough to eat during the season, that is still better than buying everything. 

Don't despair the lack of "making money" at it.  Just strive to do more with less and be appreciative of what you have. 

Anyone remember Saturday mornings with Fury of Broken Wheel Ranch or Sky King?   Now I am really dating myself.  Well, I am not ashamed to admit I am 64...just wish my joints were 34 !!!!!!


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## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Well at least you are in the younger half of that geezer list, Mike wins by several years.  But he and Teresa also show you can do stuff when you are "old". He was older than I am now when he started this sheep farm business. @misfitmorgan is about half his age, plenty of years to get a really solid farm going! And step one? Buying the property ... though I think the process aged her a couple of extra years.



You may be right....it definitely felt like i lost years.



Baymule said:


> Sorry, I seldom watch the videos or I watch a little of it, then click it off. We live in the land of no internet service, so get internet from a satellite. Service is metered and costly for what I get. If I use up all my service, then it goes to dial up which is like waiting for Christmas on December 26.



Same here bay i just watch on my cell phone and us it's data, straighttalk now has 15gb of data for $48/month or unlimited data for $58/month so we use our phone data a lot. DH hotspots his unlimited data to the tv and we watch shows, really helps cut down on the satellite data we need to pay for. Unlimited satellite data is $150/month and i am so not paying that.



farmerjan said:


> Don't feel bad, I am in the "lady Geezer" status I guess.   At least, that is how my ankle and knee joints feel.  And yes, working a 40 hour week, or a full time job of varying hours like mine, is pretty much a necessity these days unless you inherit.   I have been growing a garden forever, and my mom did it before me to help feed our family, so I came by it naturally.
> 
> But, being as self-sufficient as possible is always a good thing.  And even if you only grow enough to eat during the season, that is still better than buying everything.
> 
> Don't despair the lack of "making money" at it.  Just strive to do more with less and be appreciative of what you have.
> 
> Anyone remember Saturday mornings with Fury of Broken Wheel Ranch or Sky King?   Now I am really dating myself.  Well, I am not ashamed to admit I am 64...just wish my joints were 34 !!!!!!



Even with my old timey show watching i can't say i recall ever seeing either. We dont really despair the lack of money making we just dream of it someday at least not being a money drain.


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## Pastor Dave

I know i started something with that Geezer statement, but would never lable a lady. At least not a Geezer.


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## Latestarter

VERY smart thing there Dave


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## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Anyone remember Saturday mornings with Fury of Broken Wheel Ranch or Sky King? Now I am really dating myself. Well, I am not ashamed to admit I am 64...just wish my joints were 34 !!!!!!


Just started watching Fury ... After Maverick, Annie Oakley and The Adventures of Champion  Interesting difference between Champion and Fury, Champion was based in the late 1800's, Fury was "real time" in the mid-late 1950's. BTW, I am 3 years younger than you. Any of these I might have seen must have been rebroadcasts. I remember I watched Maverick and Gene Autry and Roy Rogers. Other than the later Maverick shows I wasn't old enough (or in most cases even born) to see them live. I don't even know if we had a TV by the time Maverick finished in 1962.


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## Pastor Dave

Bruce said:


> Just started watching Fury ... After Maverick, Annie Oakley and The Adventures of Champion  Interesting difference between Champion and Fury, Champion was based in the late 1800's, Fury was "real time" in the mid-late 1950's. BTW, I am 3 years younger than you. Any of these I might have seen must have been rebroadcasts. I remember I watched Maverick and Gene Autry and Roy Rogers. Other than the later Maverick shows I wasn't old enough (or in most cases even born) to see them live. I don't even know if we had a TV by the time Maverick finished in 1962.



Maverick, as in James Garner? 

My Dad used to talk abt turning 10 in 1950 and getting indoor plumbing and their first tv the same year. Talk abt milestones.

By the time I came along 25 years after that, we had a colored tv in the family room, and a black and white in the living room. Bathrooms had been installed in new builds for at least 15 years or more, and men had walked on the moon. (If you buy into that propaganda) 

We've "advanced" a long way!


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## Bruce

Pastor Dave said:


> Maverick, as in James Garner?


Yep, except apparently only the first 3 seasons are out on the web. Garner bailed after the 3rd season (contract money dispute) so I've not seen but one of the episodes with Beau (Roger Moore) (3 years).


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