# How many days until we can wean the lamb off the artificial milk?



## soarwitheagles (Feb 3, 2018)

Hi everyone and glad to be back!  Hope all is well and wishing everyone here a very happy new year.

Having some ewes reject/refuse to feed their lambs...

We found a beautiful white lamb on the ground, not cleaned off...enough to break yer heart!

My wife fell head over heels in love with this lamb...she has been bottle feeding it since day one.

Good news is we also held the mama twice during the first day, allowing this white lamb to drink deeply for the purpose of the colostrum intake/immune system development. 

And now the question...

How many days until we can wean the lamb off the artificial milk?

Sheep 201 states 30-42 days, and I respect their website a lot.  But does anyone here have actual experience and success in weaning a bottle fed lamb off the artificial milk?

Oh, just thought of one more question...

Was the two deep drinks of mama's milk on the first day sufficient to kick start the lambs immune system?

Thanks,

Soar


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## Sheepshape (Feb 4, 2018)

Hi soar and welcome back.

Fall in love with a bottle lamb? Never! (I fall in love with with about 10 every year....so hard to part with any of them.)

Anyway, the practicalities. You don't say how old the lamb is, but I'm guessing a week or two.

The mother only gives out full colostrum for the first day or so, and the lamb is only able to absorb it effectively in the first 24 hours to the best of my knowledge. Colostrum is high protein, high sugar and contains antibodies to help protect the lamb in the first 4-6 weeks from disease, until it can produce it's own. The 'rule of thumb' is 10% of the body weight in colostrum in the first 24 hours. Artificial colostrum (bovine usually) is nowhere near as good as ewe colostrum and colostrum from old ewes is the best as it contains most antibodies as older ewes have encountered more diseases. If your lamb got colostrum at this time, then good....beyond 24 hours, or 48 at a stretch, colostrum is wasted as the antibodies can't be absorbed. If only the one drink....better some than none. I've had quite a few cade lambs who have managed without, though  always try to give it.

Weaning....I wean at 6-8 weeks when the lamb is taking grass, hay/silage and lamb creep. If they are small/thin/weak I continue for a bit longer. I like to wean slowly.....cutting out the midday bottles and then the night bottle whilst offering lamb creep. The last bottle to go is the morning one. Some folk wean abruptly....but the beseeching bleating all day is too much for me!

Pictures of the lamb, please....


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## mysunwolf (Feb 4, 2018)

Weaning is a slow process for us as well. At 3 weeks we bring them down to 3 feedings a day. Then at 4 weeks 2 feedings a day. Then we wean lambs completely at 5-6 weeks using 1 bottle a day at first, then zero. Basically, whenever they are healthy and eating well from a 16% lamb pellet I take them off the replacer.

Sheep dairies often "cold turkey" wean at 4 weeks, but I have seen more health problems develop with weaning at this age that most of us don't want to deal with.

Bottle feeding replacer past 8 weeks is not helpful for the lamb IMO. It's different if it's goats milk or sheep milk you're feeding.

It helps if they have a buddy so that they don't cry so much out in the barn! Plus, don't change more than 2 variables at a time, ex don't move locations and wean at the same time. Start by moving locations, then a few days/a week later wean. 

Hope this helps. And I agree, PICTURES!


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## farmerjan (Feb 4, 2018)

The rule of thumb is that the greatest benefit from colostrum is the first 12 to 24 hours as far as the absorption of the anti-bodies.  BUT there is a reason that the female of any species produces a thicker colostrum type milk for several days.  It helps the gut tract get working, helps the newborn pass the meconium which is basically the first manure and bathe the walls of the intestine etc with anti-bodies that are absorbed longer than I believe the experts give the system credit for.  
All that said, the 2 feedings that you made the ewe stand for will be the best for the lamb. After that  you can plan on the lamb being on a bottle for a minimum of 4 preferably  6-8 weeks.  As sheepshape and mysunwolf said, they have to be eating good.  And gradual weaning is best.   Doesn't matter if a lamb, kid, piglet or a calf or a foal.


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## Bossroo (Feb 4, 2018)

X2 what Sheepshape, mysunwolf, and farmerjan said !


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## soarwitheagles (Feb 5, 2018)

Thank you very, very much everyone!

I will do my best to post some pics soon.

Presently, this lamb is drinking the TS lamb milk.  We have moved from 6 times per day down to 3 times per day, and he seems super healthy and super happy.

Also,last week, we began to feed him alfalfa and grain too.  He is powering all of it down and appears to really like it.

I think he is 18 days old.  For the last week, we have begun to let him run with the full flock, with the intention of helping him develop his social skills and he appears to be doing well.

This lamb is really, really strange.  My wife will put a sweater on him and he will lay still for hours at a time.  She just keeps loving on him and he keeps soaking it all up!

She already has him leash trained...

She also drove it to school for the first two weeks and kept him in her classroom everyday.  Dang, I am starting to feel a little jealous...he is getting more attention than me now...

Well, such is life on the range...


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## Sheepshape (Feb 6, 2018)

soarwitheagles said:


> She also drove it to school for the first two weeks and kept him in her classroom everyday. Dang, I am starting to feel a little jealous...he is getting more attention than me now...


 Sounds like you've maybe lost her to her new 'love interest'.

If a lamb is healthy and happy, he's getting enough food.

Just a minor word of warning....make sure that you always are 'The Boss' with a ram lamb and don't let him start to 'play fight' by head butting.That cute little bundle of wool and baaahs will turn into a huge and slightly stinky heap of muscle.Some say petting ram lambs will lead to trouble. I don't believe this to be the case for most rams, but a bit of care and firm handling when necessary should ensure he grows up to be a gentleman. I currently have 3 rams who have 'been with the ladies' up until Xmas and now they are regaining their strength. 2 weren't bottle lambs, but the third was. They are friendly, still like neck rubs, and are totally safe to be in the field with. However, they had to be gradually re-introduced to each other when they came out from the ewes and spent 4 days in the shed with bars between them before they were allowed together.

I am SO looking forward to pics of the young man on his lead. I'm getting a small dog harness to try to do this in one of my next batch of cade lambs.


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## babsbag (Feb 6, 2018)

Hi, welcome back. I can't help with the lamb but it sounds like they got you taken care of. But I have to ask a hard question...what did the necropsy show on the the sheep that died a few months back? 

Also, please let me know if you are selling any nucs this year. My hive made it through the winter, first one in years, but I want to add a second hive. I can order a package but would prefer a nuc.


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## soarwitheagles (Feb 8, 2018)

So sorry for the delay, but finally found some time to snap a couple of pics of Snow, our new bottle fed lamb project!

So sorry, he was a little grumpy today and I could not get him to smile much.  Personally, I think he takes life way too seriously...

I think he is 21 days old.  He is already eating grass, alfalfa, and grain.  He is also still sucking down 3 feedings of the bottled milk per day.

Thanks again everyone for excellent advice.


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## soarwitheagles (Feb 8, 2018)

babsbag said:


> Hi, welcome back. I can't help with the lamb but it sounds like they got you taken care of. But I have to ask a hard question...what did the necropsy show on the the sheep that died a few months back?
> 
> Also, please let me know if you are selling any nucs this year. My hive made it through the winter, first one in years, but I want to add a second hive. I can order a package but would prefer a nuc.



Babs,

I am so happy to hear your beehive made it through the winter!  Good job!  UC Davis necro was shocking and disappointing...the professor told me the ewes were emaciated.  So, I learned a very, very hard lesson.  Just because the forest produced massive forage during the good rain year, does not mean it will produce good forage during a non-good rain year, and, the forest cannot support the protein needs of the sheep in the fall.  My sheep were not getting enough nutrition in the forest and I had no clue!

New plan for this year:

1. Grow 3 acres of the fava beans and this time do the silage, then feed according to protein needs.
2. Hopefully grow two growths of 3 acre parcels of corn [March-May, and, June-Aug], again, try our hand at silage.
3. Monitor the sheep much more carefully all year round.
4. Stop being a tight wad and buy hay and alfalfa when required [last year I bought nothing].

It was a very, very painful learning lesson to say the least!

I am fairly certain at this time we may never sell nucs, bees, or full colonies.  I did a small experiment by posting ads for renting our hives to the almond growers.  What an incredible shock.  I have been non-stop inundated with calls, emails, texts, etc.  Farmers are desperate for bees and many are offering us $200+ for 8 frame hives and they only need the hives for 2-3 weeks.

This is a major game changer for us.  Now our focus has shifted to producing as many hives as possible and then renting them out each spring.  For me, it is way too much work to build a hive, split the hive, then sell it off.  I would much rather increase our numbers of hives and then focus upon pollination.  I think you understand.

Soar


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## Baymule (Feb 8, 2018)

Handsome ram lamb! I see why he has captured your wife's heart! That is interesting about the bees. $200 a hive could turn into a nice sum of money, I hope you can work this out.


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## babsbag (Feb 8, 2018)

I guess it is good that there was no poison and no disease in your herd. We have to learn the lessons the hard way sometimes, for me it was with chickens. It is great if you can figure out how to grow your own quality feed for sheep and this year with no rain (again) it will probably be especially important. My soil is so lousy that growing my own livestock feed is pretty much a no go. Did I mention the Tree Lucerne to you?  If not, you might look it up and see if it is something that would work for you. If I can get a way to grow the seedlings it is something I would like to try here.

That is great about the bees. How will you transport them? And is there really a shortage of pollination hives? My neighbor has a friend that winters his hives here, about 20 of them, and I noticed that there were gone. I am sure that they went to the almonds. Hope it works out for you, sounds like it could be profitable.


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## Mike CHS (Feb 9, 2018)

I was watching a documentary last week that had a piece on hives pollinating almond orchards and theft of the hives was evidently a big problem.  They caught one outfit that had over 2000 hives at their place.


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## soarwitheagles (Feb 9, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Handsome ram lamb! I see why he has captured your wife's heart! That is interesting about the bees. $200 a hive could turn into a nice sum of money, I hope you can work this out.



Yes, she really loves this lamb Baymule.  Yes on the nice sum of money.  My wife's friend runs over 2000 bee colonies.  He makes well over $250,00 year just on pollination alone, not including his honey and nuc sales.  So it can be a lucrative business.



babsbag said:


> I guess it is good that there was no poison and no disease in your herd. We have to learn the lessons the hard way sometimes, for me it was with chickens. It is great if you can figure out how to grow your own quality feed for sheep and this year with no rain (again) it will probably be especially important. My soil is so lousy that growing my own livestock feed is pretty much a no go. Did I mention the Tree Lucerne to you?  If not, you might look it up and see if it is something that would work for you. If I can get a way to grow the seedlings it is something I would like to try here.
> 
> That is great about the bees. How will you transport them? And is there really a shortage of pollination hives? My neighbor has a friend that winters his hives here, about 20 of them, and I noticed that there were gone. I am sure that they went to the almonds. Hope it works out for you, sounds like it could be profitable.



Babs, thanks for sharing about the Lucerne tree.  I did some reading on this tree.  The cytisus proliferus, tagasaste or tree lucerne certainly is beautiful and I especially like how it can be used to feed sheep.  Not so sure if it would grow here though...do you know of anyone growing them?

We transport the bees via a flat bed trailer, secured with ribbon tie-downs.  Yes, this year there is a substantial shortage of pollination bees and this shortage has driven the price up in our locale.



Mike CHS said:


> I was watching a documentary last week that had a piece on hives pollinating almond orchards and theft of the hives was evidently a big problem.  They caught one outfit that had over 2000 hives at their place.



Yes, more and more professional thieves are targeting the bee colonies.  Presently we are researching the best methods and options of installing hidden GPS systems within select hives.

I only have one thought toward bee thieves...hang em' high!


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## Baymule (Feb 9, 2018)

A thief is a murderer of your labors.


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## soarwitheagles (Feb 9, 2018)

Babs,

I found some growers a little north of us.  Sonoma county.  But the pics of the "trees" do not look very appealing.  I have a feeling this may be a long term endeavor?

https://redwoodhillfarm.org/the-farm/tagasaste/


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## babsbag (Feb 10, 2018)

I knew that they were growing the trees in Sonoma, that is where I learned about them...a friend of a friend.  The goat world is pretty small.  I think climate wise the trees would do well here and soil wise it would depend on the locale. I have very rocky fast draining soil so there are no wet feet here, I have to water everything with very slow drip to get water to stay where I want it. There trees have an amazingly long tap root and once they get established they are pretty drought hardy. You can either cut the tree branches or actually let the animals graze on the trees and they are supposedly as high in nutrients as alfalfa. 

They are a good flower for bees too, so an added bonus. When I get ready to order seeds I will probably get them from here...
https://lucernetreefarm.wordpress.com/seeds/

I have chatted with them via email and they seem to really want to help answer my questions. My biggest hesitation is finding a place to start the seedlings and also the pots to start them in since they have crazy long tap roots, it does not appear to be a quick and easy project, but worthwhile I think. 

I think that you need LGDs for your bees. Of course the orchards would have to be fenced so maybe the GPS would be better. It is just sad that we have to go to so much work to keep what is our ours.  Hope that yours stay safe.


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## soarwitheagles (Feb 10, 2018)

Babs,

Have you ever been able to locate any seeds or seedlings for a decent price?


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