# Taffy birthed



## MiniMilkers (Aug 7, 2018)

Purchased a nigerian dwarf doe yesterday. The breeder is getting out of nigerian dwarfs. The doe I was told is 3 years old & pregnant. No due date as she was ran with the buck her whole life. I was told she's always had twins. 

I am concerned about her and her babies. Her condition is horrible. I weighed her when I brought her home she weighed 49.8 lbs. She is skin and bones besides her pregnant belly. I wormed her with Ivomec & gave her a copper bolus. She has diarrhea. When she's standing she is constantly shifting her legs, like she's uncomfortable. She is eating here and there, not much at all. She has not even put a dent into the flake she got yesterday. 

I am feeding alfalfa 24/7 & minerals. 
Any advice?


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## Southern by choice (Aug 7, 2018)

You should have a fecal run to find out what you are dealing with and the level of the load. Deworming her really doesn't give you that info without running fecals.
If she has ivermec resistant worms or if she has super high load you won't know which it is.
I am also wondering if she possibly has coccidia as well. Adults can have coccidia and pregnancy can really increase the severity as well.

She looks like she has mites or lice as well.  
Check hooves. Do they need trimmed? Is there rot? look between web, any rawness?

I would definitely start her on probiotics for the gut health.  B-vitamins injectable if you have them.  Get a fecal to the vet asap.
Is she eating the minerals?  What kind of minerals?
If you can cut some branches and give those to her that would be good. The alfalfa may be too rich for her right now, if you can get some orchard that may entice her.


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 7, 2018)

Vets here do not see goats. I can send a fecal in. Will collect a stool sample and send it out. 

She does have some kind of skin issue. Her hooves were a little over grown, I trimmed her feet. No rawness, no smell. 

I will go to town to get her probiotics. I do not have B-vitamins. She is nibbling the minerals here and there but has not eaten much. The minerals are Manna Pro Goat minerals. 

I can cut branches for her. Have mulberry & olive trees. The hay choices I have are teff, alfalfa or 3 way.


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 9, 2018)

Fecal was mailed out. Yesterday she stopped eating leaves, but started devouring her alfalfa. Yesterday afternoon she had a normal poop. Her energy level has picked up. I named her Taffy. 
I am really hoping that I will be able to put some weight on her before she delivers. When ever that may be.


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 10, 2018)

I named her Taffy. I weighed her this morning to see if she's gained at all. She is up to 51.2 lbs. 

I took pics of her yesterday evening. You can really see how skinny she is in them. 

I think you're right about mites. She is constantly itching herself. I have checked for lice, have not found any. Could a mineral deficiency also make her skin be itchy and look the way it does?


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## Southern by choice (Aug 10, 2018)

I am sure it is a combination.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 14, 2018)

I would reworm her again in ten days and then again in another ten days.  Use something that gets tapeworm, too.  Resistant worms are usually a purchased problem.  Parisitology professor at UT Vet school recommends quarantine at least 30 days and deworm at ten day intervals.  Even though TN does not have liver flukes, because so many Boer goats brought in, UT recommends using something for flukes in quarantine.  

I also recommend treating for Coccidia, too. As someone said stress can bring on, even in adults.  Vitamin B injections for a few days is helpful to ease stress.  When you pull her lower eyelid down is it pale or rosy inside?  If pale, then add iron for anemia.  

Alfalfa the last four weeks gestation puts her at high risk of milk fever as potassium level is too high.  First cutting grass hay, any heavy matured hay, and all alfalfa has too high potassium to be safe.   2nd and later cutting grass hay is best to feed close to kidding (last month gestation. )  You can counter by feeding anionic salt like ammonium chloride, but they are bad tasteing.  The high potassium blocks body from using calcium and causes milk fever.  Tennessee Farmers Co-op makes a goat feed for preventing urinary stones with ammonium chloride so it does double duty preventing milk fever.

What is selenium levels like where you live?  I would be a bit leary of giving injection, but if doe is deficient she will have weak labor, weak kids, very tough, thick placental sack.


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 16, 2018)

Taffy had a high parasite load & cocci. She has been treated. I will be sending out another sample to see if the treatment has been effective.

She's up to 51.8 not a huge gain since the last time I weighed her. She still is not that interested in the minerals I put out. I have started her on grain. Small amount 3x a day.
She is eating her alfalfa. I cut down branches for her daily. 

I will get some pics of her later today. 

I have not heard about milk fever in goats because of alfalfa. Alfalfa is the #1 hay here. I have tried Teff with the 2 other goats I have. They wasted 90% of it. I did google milk fever because of Alfalfa and only found it with cows. Do you have any websites I can read up on it?

I looked up the selenium in my area. This is what the report shows. I honestly have no clue if any of these levels are high/low, normal? 

*Element* *Symbol* *Mean* *Std. dev.            * *Minimum* *Maximum*
Aluminum         Al (wt%)     7.837         0.819                   4.971                    10.951
Arsenic            As (ppm)    12.714        27.668                 0.487                    571.304
Calcium           Ca (wt%)     2.779         0.654                   0.556                    6.744
Copper            Cu (ppm)    15.572        6.442                   1.119                    61.683
Iron                 Fe (wt%)    3.625         1.051                    1.339                    9.740
Mercury           Hg (ppm)    0.039         0.058                    0.010                   0.967
Magnesium       Mg (wt%)    1.100         0.303                    0.246                   2.454
Manganese       Mn (ppm)    665.497     222.538                 183.980                1608.750
Sodium            Na (wt%)     2.133        0.333                    0.878                    3.595
Phosphorus       P (wt%)       0.087        0.022                    0.027                    0.219
Lead               Pb (ppm)     20.195      7.529                     7.433                   130.477
Selenium          Se (ppm)     0.310        0.423                    0.070                    5.774
Titanium         Ti (wt%)       0.461        0.130                    0.194                    1.102
Zinc                Zn (ppm)     78.843      19.731                   31.070                  198.815


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 16, 2018)

Yeah, milk fever happens in goats.  I have had half dozen cases before I found out how to prevent.    Any lactating animal  species is at risk.  In dairy animals it is usually caused by excess potassium just prior and after freshening. 

Amaranthus retroflexus , commonly known a red root pigweed  is attractive to goats.  If they eat enough it can interfere with available calcium.  I had a doe that had milk fever from pigweed.

Around here it is usually first cutting grass hay that is culprit.  I try to get my does onto 2nd or later cutting grass hay by last month gestation.  Ammonium chloride is an aniontic salt that also helps.  Lots of info on milk fever in dairy  cattle literature.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 16, 2018)

I think this PDF article is best at explaining the different issues , how and why they occur.
Pregnancy toxemia is different than milk fever  yet are closely linked.

http://goatdocs.ansci.cornell.edu/Resources/GoatArticles/GoatFeeding/GoatNutritionalDiseases1.pdf


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 17, 2018)

I will read it. Thank you. Are the levels in my area in a good range? 

Here are a couple pics I took of Taffy before cleaning her pen. Since I see her everyday, I can not tell if she's starting to fill out at all. Udder is slightly more noticeable.


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 18, 2018)

After feeding her tonight I noticed her vulva is elongated and puffy. Her udder has only a slight change in size. Is there a normal time frame when does vulva becomes puffy and elongated? 

I am stressing over her kidding and not being able to feed the kids.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 18, 2018)

Every goat is a bit different. What you want to learn is how to feel for the ligaments. Once she starts softening you will watch close... changes in udder , behavior... once ligs are gone she will kid. Some lose ligs slow others practically overnight. Google ligaments goat labor. Look at lots of pics and view as many videos as you can.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 18, 2018)

Do you have your kidding kit ready? What do you have in it?


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 18, 2018)

Will look up how to check her ligaments. 

I have puppy pads, Iodine, bulb syringe, scissors, thermometer, lube & gloves. Now i'm wondering if I should get a bag of colostrum powder & bottles just in case?


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## Southern by choice (Aug 18, 2018)

Get colostrum from mom, powder is crap.  Bottles are great. Soda Pop bottle and pritchard nipples. Smart thinking!
You will want a roll of papertowels and some towels (for helping to dry and stimulate)
Remember to tie the cord off befor cutting if it is even necessary.

Also have some nutri drench on hand for the doe.

Also, just and FYI. Nigerians are hands down the hardiest goats there are. It is extremely rare for pregnancy toxemia or milk fever etc. 
They pretty much are the easiest goat there is. So.... don't worry yourself to death!


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 19, 2018)

I will be heading to tsc tomorrow for the pritchard nipples & nutri drench. I have paper towels & towels just not in the kidding bag. I will add them.  

Trying not to stress. With her being under weight, it's stressing me out. This morning she is dropped. When should I give her a birth shave? I tried feeling for her ligaments. I can not find them.


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 20, 2018)

Last night she stopped eating. She stood in a corner of the pen head pressing and breathing really heavy. That lasted roughly 6 hours. Then she would lay down, get up, head press, still breathing rapidly. Not sure how long that went on. I fell asleep. Woke up at 3am to her having contractions (set up a webcam to watch her). Not sure if she was pushing with them or not. The webcam is not the greatest. She would be laying, then roll on her side with her back legs fully stretched out. It was happening every 5-8 mins. That lasted 2 hours. Now she's up acting normal, eating and drinking. Udder still not big, has gotten lower though. 
Do goats go through B&H type contractions?


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## Southern by choice (Aug 20, 2018)

She may be in the psoitioning phase. Do you see any discharge and are you still working on feeling ligs?

Please put a cinder block or something similar in her pen. They will stand on that to help get the kids in the right position. You will see they put their front feet on it and stretch and turn etc. 
This is a really helpful aide for them.


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 20, 2018)

How long can that phase last? I just put a good size rock in the pen for her. She has small amount of white goo. I can not feel her ligs. I shaved her yesterday and shaved up higher where you're suppose to feel the ligs. I believe her ligs are gone. Due to an indent that was not there when I first shaved her. Best pic I could get.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 20, 2018)

Not to my knowledge, no BH.  
Grinding teeth, head pressing, rapid breathing would make me reach for thermometer and check temp.  And, I would have given B vitamins (does no harm and always good idea with head pressing, ) checked ruminations in case of acidosis.
If no fever, I would be thinking acidosis??  If temp below normal then milk fever possible.

  Listeriosis always on the list, too.  Especially with immune suppressed pregnant animal.  Fever is present.

Grinding teeth, head pressing, rapid breathing are the bad news trifecta in goats!  Glad she is back to normal!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 20, 2018)

Actually all those things can go on and off for a few days. Sometimes positioning and discomfort set in. When our does are carrying 4-5 kids (Nigerians) they can act like they are going in labor for a week. The biggest thing for them is that they can have trouble breathing when laying down. If she has white goo it could be anytime.

All of the things Donna mentioned are real things but would be so extremely rare in a Nigerian. Standard breed goats are more prone to issues.

Make sure you aren't trying to shove groceries into her. Give good hay and feed appropriately. A big mistake that many make on a thin or undernourished goat is to try and stuff them full of feed.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 20, 2018)

Yep, be careful as pointed out by SBC.  Dunne flora/fauna can be overwhelmed by drastic changes.
You can not go wrong with a good quality hay.  Long stemmed fiber keeps digestive tract healthy.

Sometimes due to fetus  crowding the grain has to be fed in smaller portions more often.  I have had does carrying quads that the last 6 weeks needs grain ration fed four rather than twice daily.  Not feeding any more than recommended, just feeding devided into four portions.

I worry when they are acting strange and pregnant.


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 20, 2018)

She has alfalfa & minerals out 24/7. She is getting grain, I just upped her to 3/4 C total for the day. 1/4 C 3x a day. Fresh water 3x a day as well. 

She only had a small amount of white goo this morning. I have not seen her pass anymore. Have not seen her act like she's having contractions since this morning. She seems uncomfortable. Lots of panting and stretching, getting up and down. She is peeing A LOT. More than she has been the whole time. 

With the possibility of it still being a while before she kids. I'm trying not to stress. I moved her into a smaller pen for the night. Where the webcam can see the whole area, just in case.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 21, 2018)

So, how is she today?


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 21, 2018)

She is back to normal. Her udder is slowly getting bigger. Not sure how big her udder will get since she is under weight. Pic just taken.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 27, 2018)

Updates??


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## MiniMilkers (Aug 27, 2018)

No symptoms of going into labor anytime soon. She has clear goo today.


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## MiniMilkers (Sep 5, 2018)

It has been 30 days since I brought Taffy home. She is up to 57.6 lb from 49.8 lbs. Her over all condition is looking better, but still needs more calories. 
Here is a pic of her udder this morning. She has clear goo here and there. Nothing major.


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## MiniMilkers (Oct 6, 2018)

2 months since I brought Taffy home.

Pics of her last night.


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## MiniSilkys (Oct 8, 2018)

She is looking better. You might try mixing some sweet feed into her ration. They love it and it helps put on weight. My goats love bermuda hay. Do you have any baking soda out for her?


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## MiniMilkers (Oct 9, 2018)

She has unlimited alfalfa, mineral, and water. She is getting grain 3x a day. Grain is calf manna. I started her out with a little. Slowly increasing it weekly. Shes now getting the recommended amount that is on the bag for goats.
Leaves from our trees 1-2 times a week. I do not give my goats baking soda.
Her last weight was 65 lbs. 
She loves calf manna. The second I grab her bucket to go get the grain she's pacing by the gate. She polishes off a flake of alfalfa a day. Not including most of the stems. She picks through for the fine stem and the leaf. 

Just waiting to see when she will kid.


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## MiniSilkys (Oct 9, 2018)

Baking soda helps to control the acid in the rumen and helps keep away bloat.


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## StarSpangledNubians (Oct 21, 2018)

How is she doing? Just read through and interested to see how she is.


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## MiniMilkers (Dec 20, 2018)

It has been some time since I have been on. She is doing okay. She just got treated for pneumonia. She was doing good then one morning when I went out to feed, she did not get up. Did not come for attention like she always does. Checked her temp 105.7! It was cool that morning, around 40 degrees. Off to the vet. 
She has completed the antibiotics. She is back to her normal self. No kidding yet. I could feel baby/ies moving when I checked her temp. Her udder had shrank to nothing, in the past 2 weeks started to fill again. Will get pictures when I have time. It has been crazy around here with Taffy and Christmas soon.


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## StarSpangledNubians (Dec 20, 2018)

Oh no! Glad you got her to a vet and she is okay now. Hope the rest her pregnancy is uneventful and you have some cute kids in the next month or so.


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## Jesusfreak101 (Jan 9, 2019)

How is taffy?


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## MiniSilkys (Jan 29, 2019)

Has Taffy Kidded yet?


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## MiniMilkers (Jan 29, 2019)

Taffy has not kid. She is really round. The date has come and gone for her to have been pregnant when I purchased her. My nigi buck did escape twice. When I went out to feed, he was In her pen.
I think she might be pregnant now from my escape buck.  The one date would be 150 days Feb 10th. Her udder is not very big. 

Taffy has a large moonspot I never noticed before.


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## Latestarter (Jan 30, 2019)

Ummmm yeah, she looks to be pregnant now, even if she wasn't before. Starting to see udder development. couple more weeks!


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## MiniSilkys (Jan 30, 2019)

Yep, that is what mine looks like, but she isn't due, i don't think, until March 6th.


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## MiniMilkers (Feb 2, 2019)

Taffy had a large single buck.  


 


I am bottle feeding him and milking Taffy. He's adorable. 
Taffys udder is tiny and never got full or tight.


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## Latestarter (Feb 2, 2019)

Congrats!


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## Jesusfreak101 (Feb 5, 2019)

So cute yay baby. Hopefully her milk will increase


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