# not again...this time it looks like LICE! UPDATE AND ?



## GrowURown (Mar 1, 2011)

so, we FINALLY got the stanchion fully complete, and just now noticed what would appear to be LICE all over the first doe we stuck up on it! Now what? Keep in mind we have 3 nigi/pygmy does, one for sure is preggers, one in milk, one idk (she doesnt like to be touched, hold still, etc...hard to tell). Someone tell me what to do...we have been concentrating on things like feeding, being able to handle them and hoof trimming ( can you say hot mess everyone of them?) plus dealing with the sick baby that they came with...how does one go about setting this straight? Because if one has it, i'd bet all 3 do...eagerly awaiting advice...again....


----------



## Livinwright Farm (Mar 1, 2011)

If you want to continue milking, use PYTHON DUST. It is safe for use on dairy livestock, pregnant livestock and safe enough to use on newborns! I know they say to do a second dose after 10-12 days, but my girls never needed a second dose. they haven't had a trace of lice since I put the initial treatment on them. It is a dust, so you will need a dust mask and it is reccommended that you use rubber gloves(not the medical type, more like what you would use handling chemicals)


----------



## Our7Wonders (Mar 1, 2011)

Is python good for both sucking and biting lice?  And how about mites?  I don't know that we need it for sure, but I'm concerned about Sevin now that babies are so close to due.


----------



## GrowURown (Mar 1, 2011)

Our7Wonders said:
			
		

> Is python good for both sucking and biting lice?  And how about mites?  I don't know that we need it for sure, but I'm concerned about Sevin now that babies are so close to due.


And how does one tell the difference between SUCKING and Biting lice? Can I get 'em? The kids? Dogs? Horses? Chickens? Lord...what have I agreed to by giving these goats a home?  Do I need to clean their home and burn all the bedding? Dust the chickens as well now? In a minor panic at the moment, my wife is going to KILL me if she finds out they have lice!


----------



## Livinwright Farm (Mar 1, 2011)

google images for biting lice and sucking lice. one has a bigger fatter head than the other. It will kill both types and that I know of, it will also kill mites. goat lice won't tranfer off of a goat and onto you, your kids, or your things.  You _CAN_ dust your chickens, or you can just give them a dusting bed and add some of the dust to that bed.


----------



## Our7Wonders (Mar 1, 2011)

GrowURown said:
			
		

> Our7Wonders said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't panic - from what I understand lice are species specific.  So, while all your goats are likely to have them, you, your family, and your chickens should be safe.  Mites I'm not sure about - can anyone tell us if they are species specific too?  

It's not as horrible as it seems - if it's lice the python dust should work.  If you're not opposed to chemcial wormers apparantly the 1% ivermectin has worked well for some on here at just 1cc per 125 pounds for lice/mite infestations, given sub Q.  Have your goats been wormed at all?  If not, (and again, if your not opposed to it, I kinda am if I can avoid it) a general worming might take care of ANY nasties your dealing with, both internal and external.  If you're going that route it's the same ivemectin that you use, but you dose it higher and drench it (orally).  There's lots of info in that in past threads if you decided to go that route.  Taking droppings in to a vet can let you know if your dealing with any internal issues as well.  My vet charges only $15 to run a fecal - droppings must be fresh.

If they are good on the inside then Cylence pour on or dusting seem to be the method of choice.  You'll likely want to treat a second, possibly even a third to make sure you've gotten all the life cycles.  I don't think you have to burn anything - just a good clean out and a throrough dusting of their bedding and main areas that they hang out in.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Mar 1, 2011)

I beleive goat lice is species specific, another words, only goats can get them.


----------



## GrowURown (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank the good lord to hear that!  I'm going to search for and purchase some of that stuff ASAP...I saw those lice and was just picturing having to pick heads around here....and four legged bodies...and the chickens....oh I CRINGED!  Python dust it is!  Oh! and THANKS THANKS AND THANKS AGAIN! I am finding every day that I love goat people more and more!


----------



## helmstead (Mar 1, 2011)

Actually you can use Eprinex on a milking doe (ivermec brand) and there's no milk withdrawl.  It will get lice, mites and worms.


----------



## GrowURown (Mar 1, 2011)

Okay...wait a minute....so then, what about generic Ivermectin paste wormer? I have that on hand already from the horses...would that work?  Just asking...I want to get this fixed ASAP!  I SWEAR I can feel my scalp itching and twitching...you know, that I had a bug on me feeling?  I only get that feeling with spiders...and LICE!


----------



## helmstead (Mar 1, 2011)

You'd have to dump the milk (if you're drinking it) for at least 4 days following regular Ivermec.  ONLY EPRINEX has no withdrawl.  

I do know the feeling


----------



## Livinwright Farm (Mar 1, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> You'd have to dump the milk (if you're drinking it) for at least 4 days following regular Ivermec.  ONLY EPRINEX has no withdrawl.
> 
> I do know the feeling


Python Dust is completely dairy safe, it says so right on the label. 
You can dust one night and milk the following morning.
_Edited to add: _ It is also the only one that can be used safely on newborns.


----------



## GrowURown (Mar 2, 2011)

I think I am going to stick with the python dust route - managed to pick some up yesterday, and plan to spring into action today...here's the kicker...it's slightly chilly this morning (high 40's) and I noticed the goat that seemed to have the most lice shaking/shivering...would this indicate anemia now due to aforementioned creepy crawlies?  Should I go ahead and give her some red cell?    What do I do next?  "cause I'm pretty sure with the amount of creepy-ness she's sporting that anemia is my next battle this week...why not....


----------



## Livinwright Farm (Mar 2, 2011)

GrowURown said:
			
		

> I think I am going to stick with the python dust route - managed to pick some up yesterday, and plan to spring into action today...here's the kicker...it's slightly chilly this morning (high 40's) and I noticed the goat that seemed to have the most lice shaking/shivering...would this indicate anemia now due to aforementioned creepy crawlies?  Should I go ahead and give her some red cell?    What do I do next?  "cause I'm pretty sure with the amount of creepy-ness she's sporting that anemia is my next battle this week...why not....


It could just be that she is a little chilled. One of my bucks shivers in below 50F weather... and he is the one with longer thicker hair. 
try to just warm her up what you can, and definitely dust them fist chance you have. Those lice and/or mites will be dead and gone in no time.


----------



## GrowURown (Mar 5, 2011)

Well, it would appear that the python dusting has/is done/doing the trick!  The lice are dropping off dead - LITERALLY!  RIGHT INTO THE MILK WHEN WE MILK!!     

So...we brush her pretty well first, wash/wipe her teats/udders and the ENTIRE UNDERNEATH OF HER and STILL the little buggers are falling into the milk!   YUCK!!!     Which I am then feeding to the roosters because even if I strain it, I know what was floating in it and I don't want anything with floaters like that!  SOOOOO....here's my burning question:  HOW DO I STOP THIS?   Should I take a flea comb to her? Go buy a nit comb for when people have lice? Just wait?   What would ya'll do? Because it's grosser than I can handle to see little floating thingies in my milk! Shave her bald is outta the question as it still gets pretty cool here for a while, so if we have to wait, I suppose that's it...but if a certain brush or comb will work I will buy it! Just say the word and I'll place an order or drive into town!

(And yes, as a side note, they were THAT bad, and no, we didn't notice right away....one of those things not much goat literature mentions, never seen a "What to do if the things in your milk have legs" section in a goat book yet, and we bought 2! Goats can be gross!)


----------



## babsbag (Mar 5, 2011)

Do you have a covered milk bucket? Mine has a pretty small opening in it. If you don't have a covered one maybe throw a towel over most of it and just leave enough open to get the milk in. 

Or maybe put a piece of cheesecloth over the entire bucket and let the milk flow through that. It should keep everything else out.

Good luck. But I am glad the lice are dead, and I bet she is too.


----------



## BlackSheepOrganics (Mar 5, 2011)

Now that is just ingenious!  So simple, yet I would not have thought of that!

thank you for that suggestion!


----------



## Our7Wonders (Mar 6, 2011)

babsbag said:
			
		

> Or maybe put a piece of cheesecloth over the entire bucket and let the milk flow through that. It should keep everything else out.


Genious!!!!  I have a goat with a current shedding issue.  We're working on her issues - but I was worried about so much hair in the milk - cheese cloth would be PERFECT!  Thank you!


----------



## Livinwright Farm (Mar 6, 2011)

GrowURown said:
			
		

> Well, it would appear that the python dusting has/is done/doing the trick!  The lice are dropping off dead - LITERALLY!  RIGHT INTO THE MILK WHEN WE MILK!!
> 
> So...we brush her pretty well first, wash/wipe her teats/udders and the ENTIRE UNDERNEATH OF HER and STILL the little buggers are falling into the milk!   YUCK!!!     Which I am then feeding to the roosters because even if I strain it, I know what was floating in it and I don't want anything with floaters like that!  SOOOOO....here's my burning question:  HOW DO I STOP THIS?   Should I take a flea comb to her? Go buy a nit comb for when people have lice? Just wait?   What would ya'll do? Because it's grosser than I can handle to see little floating thingies in my milk! Shave her bald is outta the question as it still gets pretty cool here for a while, so if we have to wait, I suppose that's it...but if a certain brush or comb will work I will buy it! Just say the word and I'll place an order or drive into town!
> 
> (And yes, as a side note, they were THAT bad, and no, we didn't notice right away....one of those things not much goat literature mentions, never seen a "What to do if the things in your milk have legs" section in a goat book yet, and we bought 2! Goats can be gross!)


Oh... that is just icky  
I like  *babsbag* 's suggestions!


----------



## dhansen (Mar 6, 2011)

I almost gagged when I first saw lice on our two new kids.  I immediately began started get itchy until I found out they are species specific.   I recently had new kids that were itchy.  The dust works and I just used Ivomec injectible for the mom.


----------



## whetzelmomma (Mar 8, 2011)

The Henry Milker would also eliminate hair and bugs in your milk.


----------



## GrowURown (Mar 10, 2011)

Just FYI....a little update   the dust has worked, the goats little "creepy crawly friends" are now seemngily all gone (though we do plan to retreat in a few more days like the canister says) and THANK YOU for the cheesecloth idea!  That has stopped all junk from falling in the milk!  That was an ingenious idea!  Except for when I brought my milk in the house, set the cheesecloth in the sink, turned my back for a second and caught the cat practically ROLLING on it in goat milk heaven!  You didn't warn me to watch where it set things when I came inside!    But now I think we've got this thing mostly figured out for a minute


----------



## Livinwright Farm (Mar 10, 2011)

GrowURown said:
			
		

> Just FYI....a little update   the dust has worked, the goats little "creepy crawly friends" are now seemngily all gone (though we do plan to retreat in a few more days like the canister says) and THANK YOU for the cheesecloth idea!  That has stopped all junk from falling in the milk!  That was an ingenious idea!  Except for when I brought my milk in the house, set the cheesecloth in the sink, turned my back for a second and caught the cat practically ROLLING on it in goat milk heaven!  You didn't warn me to watch where it set things when I came inside!    But now I think we've got this thing mostly figured out for a minute


Oh goodness!! Good thing that we love our cats, eh? 

I will add that I am *STILL* not seeing a re-occurence of lice on my herd and I dusted them once back in mid-December...


----------



## damummis (Mar 10, 2011)

I so feel your itchies.  I just came in from the barn, my goats have bugs.  They look like little grains of rice.    I think the sheep have them too.  

Thanks for all the info.


----------



## babsbag (Mar 11, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> Oh goodness!! Good thing that we love our cats, eh?


Yes I do love my cats, and they never cease to amuse me. At least it is amusing now.
I was making goats milk soap a few weeks ago and had it all nicely poured into a nice new mold that is about 12"x12" square. I was going to move it off the kitchen counter a little later that night but just threw a towel over it so no bad, nosey kitties would get burned from the lye it they got curious. 

About an hour later I go back in the kitchen and one kitty had found a new, nice, soft, WARM spot to sleep...right in the middle of the soap. It had already started to get hard so it had a big indent in the middle of it and high spots on the side. Into the remelting pot it went 

Good thing for her I put the towel over it, silly kittie. Yes, it is a good thing we love our cats. Now my soap goes straight into the spare bedroom to cure.

Glad the cheesecloth worked out. I actually use it when I extract honey so I figured it would be good for goat milk too. Something else you might try is the nylon paint strainers that they sell at Lowe's. They are made to stretch over a 5 gallon bucket, might be easier to keep in place on the milking bucket.


----------



## getchasome (Mar 16, 2011)

First can I say how incredibly thankful I am that I found this forum?  There is such a wealth of knowledge here that, as the OP mentioned, isn't covered in the books!

While I was bottle feeding the babies earlier I was rubbing Heinzs head and noticed little flakies, so I started looking closer and the flakies were rice shaped and around the base of her horns and the top of her head ... after feeding I was sitting out with them just hanging out and noticed that she kept biting her side, so I checked her and found the same rice shaped things ... so grossed out!!  

I'm going to get DE in the morning.  As soon as I finished checking her, I cleaned out all the straw from their house and really raked their inner yard where their house is ... I've felt like there are bugs crawling on me since then ... I even came in and showered 

A question - our duck shares the yard with the goats and our chickens side wall is the back wall of the inner goat yard (its chicken wire) ... the goats house is about 4 ft from this shared chicken wire wall ... do I need to dust the duck & the chickens since they are basically sharing space?


----------



## Our7Wonders (Mar 16, 2011)

They're supposedly species specific, however, dusting the other areas is a good idea.  I dust my coop, nesting boxes, and their main dust bath area on a regular basis.  If I find any birds with issues we hold the hen upside down and work the DE in between all her feathers.


----------



## getchasome (Mar 17, 2011)

I found garden grade DE today ... the wind here is really really fierce right now, so I'm planning on dusting in the morning


----------

