# Newbie LGD Questions



## Nardalyn (Feb 12, 2013)

I've recently been in contact with the only Maremma owners I know of in Alaska and am thrilled to be on their list for a puppy this spring. The parents both "work" on a small farm and are great with the animals and kids. I have two, hopefully bred, Icelandic ewes and one ram, a boarding Alpine goat and poultry. My hope is to raise the puppy with the lambs.  He/she will live in the barn and barnyard and later, in the pasture, with the sheep.

However, I know I will also want the dog bonded with me and my family including two young grand boys. And the uber-submissive mostly yellow lab...who is afraid of the sheep.

We do have bears, mostly black but the occasional grizzly, lynx, moose and I've heard but never seen coyotes in the area. I have all livestock behind electricity due to the bears.

Questions:
1. Just one LGD if there is another dog that can provide some play time?
2. Is there any conventional wisdom on male or female if I get just one?
3. What temperament traits should I look for in a puppy?
4. I do not want nonsense barking. Any training tips on how to train the puppy to bark at threats and not at the moon?
5. Your best recommendation for a training resource!

Thanks!


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## Southern by choice (Feb 12, 2013)

There are many LGD books available however thhe use of the LGD and them being more on small family farms/ranches has changed some of the traditional training that is advised in the LGD books. I strongly believe in this type setting that the dogs should be very acclimated to the family. 

The idea that you stick them in a field and don't really "touch" them is not a good training style for dogs that are integrated in a small farm setting. You will not "ruin" your dog by loving on it or giving it attention or even allowing house time. 

We have goats kidding right now so more on that later if you like.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 12, 2013)

I will say you are pretty brave to get a Maremma as a first LGD.    They are awesome dogs but a bit more "feral" if you will than an Anatolian or Great Pyrenees.  The traits you are looking for will really depend on the environment...

these questions are on my started LGD page but here are some I pulled for you. 

*The area the dog will be in, the size

Will the dog be moved

If the dog needs to move from pasture to pasture

Will the dog stay with one group and then over time be moved with another group

The set up of the farm

Is the dog going to be far from people house etc

Is the dog off-site where you will see the dog once a day, with little human interaction

How large of an area is being guarded

What kind of animals to be guarded

What other dogs on property

What kind of predators

Predator intensity

Is the farm open to the public with lots of visitors*

These are my preliminary Questions- from there I would then ask more, directly related to your answers. You are wise to look for certain traits, because not every pup will have the same "make-up" and understanding that will help you to choose wisely.


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## Nardalyn (Feb 12, 2013)

Thanks for you willingness to help me.

>>The area the dog will be in, the size.
2.3 acres. One acre fenced.

>>Will the dog be moved?
I'm not sure I understand this question.

>>If the dog needs to move from pasture to pasture?
Oh, we only have one pasture, so he/she will be with the animals there.

>>Will the dog stay with one group and then over time be moved with another group?
I have a tiny herd.  The dog will be all the livestock. Any animals separated due to lambing season or a ram being isolated, will be right next door in a section of the dry lot or pasture.

>>The set up of the farm:
Small holding of 2.3 acres. Fenced with barn for critters and tractor and hay storage.

>>Is the dog going to be far from people house etc?
The dog will be kept in the barn/barnyard area (3000 sq. ft) adjacent to house (and people) when not also able to be in the pasture which is also very near. We anticipate quite a bit of interaction with people though the intention is that this dog will be a working dog, not a house dog. I'd like to be able to have the dog walk the perimeter with me and be able to play outside the fence when supervised.  Is that realistic?

>>Is the dog off-site where you will see the dog once a day, with little human interaction?
No. 

>>How large of an area is being guarded?
As said, 2.3 acres. Is that too small for an LGD?

>>What kind of animals to be guarded?
Sheep, poultry, the occasional goat.

>>What other dogs on property?
The afore-mentioned passive part yellow lab.

>>What kind of predators?
Bears, lynx other dogs, moose (not predators per se but they will stomp animals).  The bears are my primary reason for wanting an LGD.  

>>Predator intensity?
We _saw_ bears three times last summer on the property.  Moose are here weekly. We've had no stray dogs or coyotes.

>>Is the farm open to the public with lots of visitors?
While not open to the public, there are a lot of people coming and going.  We currently have 4 twenty-something renters and I tutor high school students who show up.  Then there's the grand kids and the constant craftsmen for the remodeling... The LGD will be behind a woven wire fence with electricity on the outside.  I do want him/ her to announce visitors but not belabor the point...

That's what I know.  

Thanks!


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## Southern by choice (Feb 12, 2013)

Nardalyn said:
			
		

> Thanks for you willingness to help me.  *you are welcome*
> 
> >>The area the dog will be in, the size.
> 2.3 acres. One acre fenced.
> ...


This is a good starting point... I need to jump off of here right now, but I will get back when I can. (putting kids to bed)


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## Nardalyn (Feb 13, 2013)

Again ,thank you!  

I have not had any losses due to bears but I've also not had my sheep here without there being some electricity between them and the bears.  The poultry are a more likely attractant because more people in the area have poultry and the bears have an acquired taste for them now. The bears can go right through my fence if their nose does not first hit the electric wire which is why I hope to get a dog as an additional deterrent.

And so might the LGD? That would be fine with the motley flock I have right now.  They're flighty and fairly unproductive.  However, with future birds, should I fence them separately? Sounds like so.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 13, 2013)

They can be trained for poultry but it takes time, loss (unfortunately) and maturity. There are also other factors involved. Like what happens when you add birds? what happens when the wrong chicken shows up in the wrong area...etc

LGD's were not really designed to be poultry guardians but they can be... at some point


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## Southern by choice (Feb 20, 2013)

Was wondering if you had contacted the breeder to find out if they assess the pups?
Hadn't seen you online when I checked over the past few days.


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## Nardalyn (Feb 21, 2013)

I've inquired about a good time to phone the breeder - seems easier than emailing, but we have yet to connect.

In the meantime, 8've read all kinds of LGD training advice.  Everything from " don't even touch the dog for the first three weeks you have him", to "LGDs can be trained to stay in your unfenced yard".

My inclination is to be sure I know what I want the dog to do and then apply my previous dog training experience to setting the dog up to succeed in that role. What does that look like for me?

1. I won't be able to help but love on the puppy--in the barn.  I'll wear earplugs the first few nights because I KNOW I'll be able to hear him/her cry... 

2. I'll provide a place near the sheep but not with the sheep initially and introduce the puppy to the sheep and vice versa while I'm present over a period of a couple of weeks? Depends on how everyone reacts? He'll have a kennel with a blanket, closed at night at first, but very soon open and later, access to where the sheep are as well. (he/she will always be able to see them and go most-to-nose, just not mingle at first.)

3. The puppy will be taught to wait for his food to begin basic manners.

4. He/she will be introduced to my house dog from the very start.  He's the most submissive yellow lab mix and will love a playmate - supervised in the yard or behind the fence.

Beyond that, I want the puppy to know i'm alpha and to learn basic skills - walking on a leash, come when called, sit, stay, leave it etc.
But he will live in the barn with the sheep.

How do I teach good social skills with people.  I will introduce my family of course, but how do I encourage "let me know when someone's here, but don't charge them?". There will be an electric fence between visitors and the dog, but I still prefer passive notification?

What can you add/take away from this to help me be better directed?

Again, a humble thanks.


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## babsbag (Feb 21, 2013)

Nardalyn said:
			
		

> I've inquired about a good time to phone the breeder - seems easier than emailing, but we have yet to connect.
> 
> In the meantime, 8've read all kinds of LGD training advice.  Everything from " don't even touch the dog for the first three weeks you have him", to "LGDs can be trained to stay in your unfenced yard".
> 
> ...


My LGDs get their daily dose of love and belly rubs and the liter of pups I have right now have been handled since day one. I can't have and don't want an anti-social 125 lb dog. 

My female likes the house dogs, the male has never interacted with them, he has always been intimidated by their behavior 

These dogs are so different than my Boder Collies, then have no real manners, but in the barn environment they don't really need them. They do know sit and leave it. They have never been on a leash, and come is at thier discretion. But that is the way an LGD works, they are independant. They are not hyper dogs at all, they aren't jumping around me looking for food or attention like the BCs; they just say hello and go about thier business.

As far as poeple go; if I am not there they bark, if I am there they welcome them into the barn, even with a liter of pups. No training on my part, just they way they are wired.

Amazing animals


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