# New LGD has super weird mannerisms... not sure about her...



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Oct 22, 2013)

*I've been around quite a lot of dogs over my life, and even lots of rescues (granted not LGD specific breeds) but this one is super unusual. I'm not giving up on her, so take this as more of a rant/ help wanted post. She is a WEIRD dog. She is SUPER high energy, like border collie energy, and is SUPER agile, she can scratch her belly where she was spayed with her back leg, and she can hop over my 5' goat fence without a second thought. She is NOT leash trained, nor house trained like they said she was when we "adopted" her. Though she WILL sit and give you her paw!

She was SUPER nervous the first few days, and still is sometimes. She was in the house for the first 3 days. She has been in here the whole time with the cats, but every now and then she will growl really bad at them and snap (like she is trying to get them to run away so she can chase them) but then they will walk right over to her and she does nothing. She she's been in the house with us, and when she is outside she wants in, when she is in she tries to get out, especially through the windows. So we keep her on the leash next to us in the house so she doesn't get in trouble. So we take her out on walks throughout the farm so she can get used to the territory. She was super nervous at first (and still is at certain times) but she is calming down a little bit and getting used to the place. However she DOES like the other dogs, but not when the food is out. If any of them come within about 15 feet of her food bowl she lifts her lips and growls and lunges and snaps at them. :/ She hasn't bit anyone yet but she is definitely SUPER food aggressive. However, she does seem REALLY good with the goats! She can read their body language (like if they take the stance to head butt she knows to get out of the way). And hasn't tried to chase or bite any of them yet. However, she is SO weird! When we are on the outside of the goat pen she wants in! As soon as we put her IN she wants out! I let her run around in there with the goats and she was fine for about 15 minutes and then hopped over as she wanted out. I think she was an LGD somewhere with not a lot of human contact. I just need to figure out how to get her to stay home! LOL!

I don't know how to explain her mannerisms and behavior clearly, but I honestly think she was an active LGD that must have ran away or something and then spent some time out on the streets so it a little "wild". We don't have a secure place for her since she is SO agile and an escape artist so she is staying in the house for now. Once we "decide" to keep her we will have to invest in hotwire for the female goat pasture so she can be put in there with them.


Phew... I think I am done ranting! Anyone have any suggestions on behavior or training? This one has me stumped!

She is afraid of cars and trucks too! Like shaking out of her skin afraid, and of guns! She is a spaz!*


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## woodsie (Oct 22, 2013)

Definitely sounds like she needs to get bonded/grounded to an area and flock. I would suggest getting a secure area set up within the pasture that you want her in permanently and leave her there....do NOT let her go into other areas. She needs to know that this is where she belongs, this is her specific territory. You need her to bond with the flock and that is most certainly not going to happen walking her around to other areas, jumping fences etc. I am thinking you are needing to be very patient with those kinds of bad habits....true of most rescues but doesn't mean it can't be done and/or rewarding.

Do not think, "poor thing, she wants out" and give in...she needs to know there is no escaping and that this is "her area"....I felt bad when I finally permanently penned my two Pyrs in the pasture after they kept running away...they gave me those begging eyes at first but after a couple months they bonded to their flock and space and confidently guarded and lived with the flock. I would also keep her contained and not free with the flock until you are confident she is not going to pull any funny business with the goats. Make sure you are supervising their interactions until she has proven she is trustworthy.

I hope it works out for you, keep us posted.


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## Team Taylor (Oct 23, 2013)

The bonding is key. That's built in and if an LGD doesn't bond and want to stay with the herd then it's not a good LGD. And if the dogs not with them, it can't bond. A lot of times folks forget dogs are like cars. There are some good ones and then some bad ones. If she's young and been on the streets she may need some time to get use to the farm but instinct will make her want to stay with the herd if it's going to happen at all.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 23, 2013)

HI WMR!

Can you e-mail me a short clip/video? You have my e-mail. I have some thoughts but a bit too much to post.
I am looking at 2 distinct phases for adjustment.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Oct 23, 2013)

*Hi Southern! YES I can get video and I will post here as well as emailing it, thank you!*


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## Robbin (Oct 23, 2013)

Toli is also food agressive, but only with new animals.  He eats out of the same bowl with our border collie.  Let another dog come up and he'll stop them dead in their tracks.  In your case, all the animals are new.  I've started feeding mine twice a day, never leave the bowl down unattended.   My cats are fearless and I'm afraid he'll hurt one trying to eat out of his bowl.  So the food aggression can be worked around unless you leave food out all the time.  I'm not surprised about the nervious part.  I would be too.   I hope all turns out well,  I'm pulling for you!
Robbin


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Oct 23, 2013)

*Ok here's the video, after watching it she seems pretty normal. I guess I am still just getting used to her and her high energy, lol she is just a spaz. We keep her on the leash/ cable she is on when we can't be there with her. She is still sleeping in the house with us and with us the rest of the time when we are home (which is almost always) she only goes on the cable if we both have to leave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jJnVu-F8t0

I stopped it when she started to do the dominance mounting. She does it to all the other dogs, she is pretty dominant over them and they don't seem to mind or challenge her (surprisingly!) Right after I stopped the video she ran and grabbed a bone and ran back and forth and kept dropping it at the other dogs feet and then looking at them and growling and snapping then when that was over she decided to patrol the fence and look for any weak spots. Then I walked out of the pen to feed the chickens and she tried to get out and follow me. I then put everyone back away as I have to leave for school for a few hours.*


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## bcnewe2 (Oct 23, 2013)

She looks like a dog that has been penned up for a while. As I understand it you are keeping her on a cable or in the house with you for now. That would be like penning her up. Seems to me that she has energy that she is trying to expend.  She will get better as she gains more privileges.  How old did you say she was?  Jess will run around like that when it's cool out in the mornings.  Not always after a lamb or something but as you say a spaz.  If I put her on a leash she will jump 5ft straight up in the air. I worked with her for weeks and she will still do the leash dance if she thinks it will help her get away from the horrid dreaded leash.

She is new, are you other dogs males?  IMO she is trying to define her place in the pack. If no one rises to the challenge I bet she's going to be boss. Unless it was really nasty or aggressive I'd probably let the dominance thing happen a bit. They have to work out their pecking order. IF you are not always there to defend things it could happen when you aren't there to referee. Females in my experience have usually been the boss and rather quickly will let the other dogs know it. If you have more than one female it can be testy if you have more than one dominant female but they usually work things out.  I prefer a higher male ratio than females but I also prefer female dogs so we have lots of testing if the pack changes at all. Jess our LGD is the bottom of the pack but she is also the youngest. I think she will stay on the bottom unless there is a fight and she finds her mojo.  Doesn't mean she isn't a good guard. But just not a pack leader at home. She will guard the border collies from intruders but they rule her.  


I like my LGD's on any dog to be a tiny bit aggressive over their food. I always have control of food. I sit while they eat and just play with the dishes or take it away for a second or pet them on the ears while they eat. Or even hold the bowl for them to eat out of. Might add good things or not. Keep them guessing but also lets them know I am the food lady and the ultimate boss. 

Until we took back a bottle baby (Butterball) that had been used to eating dog food or what ever she could scarf, Jesse didn't mind anyone getting her food. But she's not fond of Butterball always trying to steal her food. She will snap at any sheep now that tries to take her food.  Still lets a border collie take it (they are her bosses due to she's the newest addition) but I don't think that's going to be much longer. She is growing fast. 
Our house rules are NO ONE touches another's food except me until the bowl is empty, then they play ring around the bowls checking for leftovers.  I want to know what and how much everyone is eating, and if I have to medicate I usually do in in the dinner bowl. That way I'm sure who gets what!  I also hate sheep that steal dog food. So it's a no go here.  I think she sounds like she has a rather large space she claims when eating but if you can take her food back or play with it then I think she'll be good.  If you can't then start playing the trading up game right away. Put dog food in the bowl but trade her for a better treat. Unless there's a real problem I bet she'll catch on quick.  So will the other dogs if they get snapped at.  If she's not making contact then I think it's even better. Jess snaps but doesn't make contact just big noises!

She is beautiful as are the rest of your crew.  I think she will get things figured out.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 23, 2013)

The video wasn't very helpful... LOL  I was hoping you would try and show the behaviors you mentioned. Trying to get in/out etc. 
That would show much more, right now she looks like she is having "energy" time and simply running around. Is she like this constantly? 
*I am looking for signs of anxiety.* 
How much history did they give you?
Where was she prior to you getting her, for how long, where was she kept? Details, even if there are few.
When was she spayed?

Her coat and hair type looks off so possibly crossed with something. _Possibly_

The humping thing is not always a dominant thing. There are other reasons dogs will do this and females are more prone to this.

I can tell you Diego is giving all the signs that he is not liking this dog in there. I think if Diego was a few months older he would have her by the neck and on the ground. Neither of your LGD's are ok with her. 

The above info would be very useful.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Oct 23, 2013)

*Sorry she was acting normal as soon as I got the camera out, lol. I will get another video of her doing her weird things asap!*


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## bcnewe2 (Oct 24, 2013)

I was seeing dogs that were worried about all the running energy expending around their charges.  More confusion than not liking her. But I don't have near the experience as Southern does.  

Do  you know the history of her?  Was she ever with other dogs or goats?  How was she kept before you got her.

I recently had my daughter over here with her new rescue terrier mix. She is very pushy with no manners in the house and no training outside so had to be on a long line.  

My dogs didn't like what she was doing but they didn't want to hurt her, only correct her rudeness.  Out side she seemed to do the same thing as this dog but ending with snapping each time at the other dogs.  They didn't like it but again, they didn't go after her just stayed out of her way.  

I worked with her for the time she was here.  She ended up sorta horse lunge lining around Jesse who was confused but willing to try and play with her. Lucy still tried to end her chasing game with snaps at Jesse.  Jess at one time got "large" and sorta of stood over her but didn't hurt her.

By the end of the day she went after Mick (my nasty boy) and he laid her out on the ground and stood on top of her showing his teeth.  I let him go, he got off and she settled down. Finally laid down and rested. Like she needed someone (another dog) to tell her how to behave.

Some might of seen this as aggression but I saw it as lack of knowledge how to behave with any sort of rules. I suggested an obedience class and to live with the idea nothing in life is free. Lucy has to work for any and all privileges plus work for meals.  Sort of tough love for dogs.

It wouldn't work for an LGD quite the same but I think the lack of structure in your dogs life has ended up with what you have.  I still feel she is workable if  you put the time into her.   

Do you have a pen that you can secure with hot wire to let her have some time to run around burning energy while not upsetting everyone else?  She might not respect fences but one with a hot wire on top might make a believer out of her.  

Good luck


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Oct 24, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> How much history did they give you?
> Where was she prior to you getting her, for how long, where was she kept? Details, even if there are few.
> When was she spayed?
> Her coat and hair type looks off so possibly crossed with something. _Possibly_
> ...


*
Here is all the prior history I know on her; 

She was found running around the streets and the neighbor took her in and fed her, the neighbor "had" her close to 8 weeks but was a frail old woman that couldn't handle her, had her in her backyard with the rest of the dogs. Prior to this no one has any idea of her history or where she came from or what she had exposure to.

She was EXTREMELY thin when we picked her up. I could feel every rib and vertebrae, (though now she is finally gaining). I think she could easily be 15 pounds heavier.

The lady I got her from was a neighbor and got her from the old lady and had only had her about a week. 

She was just spayed on the 14th, and we picked her up on the 15th, so it's only been 10 days. 

We have been keeping her in the house at night because she was SO terrified of everything and we wanted her to bond with us and get used to us before we started keeping her in the pastures.

I will always defer to your wisdom Southern but from all their interaction I think Diego and Toli are more "unsure" about her rather than not liking her, they run around and play with her too with wagging tails, however, this was the first time they were in the pasture with the goats with her loose, prior to that all their interaction had been in the main part of the yard away from the livestock.

She seems to be doing better today. She freaked out the other day at a big rig that we could see and hear but was over 1/2 a mile away, got her shivering in her skin, but that was the last time I have seen her afraid, now she is just happy/ spazzy but still trying to get in and out of pastures, kinda like she doesn't know where she wants to be.  I have been putting her in that same goat pen twice a day while I milk so she can burn off energy, she just has SO much of it! She has been REALLY good with the goats, no chasing, no biting or snapping and very respectful of their space.*


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## Baymule (Oct 24, 2013)

She is beautiful. I couldn't help laughing at the video, she was running and having a great time. I wish I had her energy!


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## secuono (Oct 24, 2013)

OP, I'm used to these 'mannerisms'. Normal doginess. Nothing special or weird about it.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 25, 2013)

WMR-

In the clip I really don't see much more than an excitable dog that is having a blast running around. Nothing unusual there. If this is constant than no that would not be good.  She looks like a puppy that hasn't grown up yet. LOL

There are 2x in the clip where Diego is "posturing" and yes they are both "unsure". Diego, at one point looks as if though he is using some restraint , mostly out of the fact that he is still young and is not "sure" about what the dogs intentions are. Watching Diegos movements was interesting. He will make a fine LGD as he develops and gains maturity!   That is what I meant about them not liking this. Your younger female is young and is showing some timidity, given her age and the rough shape she was in when you got her that isn't a negative. She looks great by the way! You've really done a great job with her.  Keep in mind "playing" outside of the goat area is one thing, inside is another. 

It would be best to give her some structuring, this will build her confidence. For the times when she will be alone and until she is trustworthy and showing work-ability I would suggest a covered run. Large and tall. I would not tether or chain this girl. 

As far as the noises... not knowing how long she was wild and on the run this could take time and perseverance. 
Ultimately it appears she has missed out on key developmental points in her life. 
You are very observant... you stated *"she doesn't know where she wants to be"* ... that is where you come in! LOL
Working a little basic obedience with  her will give her purpose and structure and build trust between you. Where there is trust their is confidence. Purpose, confidence and a job are the most important factors in the LGD. 
Structure and habits would be the important thing here. Just putting her out and leaving it at that is not what she needs right now, but I know you know that. 

I would recommend allowing her to run run run and get her energy level down before you start the routine of morning chores etc, this will allow her a bit more self control and move with you as you do your morning  routine.  This repetitive activity will build confidence and then again whenever you do afternoon evening routines. I would not allow that ripping and running in any livestock areas at all.


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## SabaiFarms (Oct 25, 2013)

She looks super happy in the video.  When I got my first LGD he was very scared for the first few nights but as he learned his territory and the 'normal' sounds he got more and more comfortable.  Now he's never scared and knows exactly where the property boundaries are.  

The one thing I've learned about LGD's is that they respond to 'good job' better than 'bad job'.  My suggestion is any time she's doing anything 'correct' make sure to tell her she's good.  I bet she'll calm down faster.


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