# Newbie X breed questions



## Wayne Kellen (May 17, 2016)

I am new to rabbits as of yesterday. I built a hutch that is 5' x 7'. It is 3' above the ground with wire bottom. Then 2 foot up from there to the roof. It has 3 quarters. Each is 2'4" wide x 3' long x 2' tall that is all wire around with a solid roof. Each also has a 2'4" wide x 2' deep x 2' tall closed in section with bedding. My daughter wanted a bunny, so I figured I would start with 3. Funny how that works. My goal is for her to have 3 pets and me to get offspring from them for meat. We went to the local Rural King since I don't know any local breeders. They really didn't have much to choose from. She ended up picking out a female NZW, a mini Rex male, and a female dwarf something. I know, not what you want for meat. Now to my breed question....

Will the NZW doe bred with the Mini Rex buck produce a rabbit that will be somewhat edible after 10-12 weeks? Also, if I keep a doe from said X breed, will it possibly throw a little larger breed also, or will the mini trait be more dominant?

Also what if I keep a buck from the cross and breed it to the two does instead of the mini Rex? Will they end up a larger breed than the mini and dwarf?

Thanks,
Wayne


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## TAH (May 17, 2016)

@Bunnylady @Samantha drawz @Hens and Roos can help.


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## promiseacres (May 17, 2016)

As you know the only true meat type you bought was the nzw.... a mini rex is only 4 to 6#... though body type is similar. It's a toss up if you'll get the growth you want.
my opinion is let her keep the small bunnies for pets and find a meat type buck. There are tons of fb groups for selling rabbits, craigslist, check arba's site for local shows. Lots of places to find a good sized meat type buck. Sounds like you're handy, so build another cage set up for 3 more cages as it allows for another doe, plus a grow cage as kits should be weaned at 6 to 8 weeks.


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## samssimonsays (May 17, 2016)

x2 what promise acres said. The babies will not grow as fast a a pure NZW.


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## Hens and Roos (May 17, 2016)

Welcome glad you joined us!  I agree with @promiseacres, hard to say what you would end up with but could always try it and see.  Post some pictures of your cage set up and new additions- everyone loves pictures


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## Wayne Kellen (May 18, 2016)

Thanks for the quick replies! We have had nonstop rain, so it had been tough getting everything built. Once I get these placed in their permanent location, I will probably start on a couple more cages. (They stayed in a large pet taxi in the house last night) Then I can look around for the breeds I need. I will probably give the cross a try just to see what size I get from them.


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## Wayne Kellen (May 23, 2016)

Image of the NZW.


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## countrygirl1178 (Dec 12, 2016)

Countrygirl here i also have a breed question  can you breed a Himalayan dwarf doe with a black otter buck that has sable and siamese sable in his back ground


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## SableSteel (Dec 19, 2016)

It is risky. If the otter carries Himalayan (or rew), you will get about 1/2 martenized Himalayan (which is unshowable, and shouldn't be bred) and 1/2 black otter that carries Himalayan (which can be shown, but shouldn't be bred or sold to those wanting to breed, because you don't want Himalayan in otter lines). If the otter carries shaded, you should get about 1/2 black otter that carry Himalayan (which can be shown, but shouldn't be bred or sold to those wanting to breed, because you don't want Himalayan in otter lines), and 1/2 sable marten (congrats, that's the best possible result from this pair). If the black otter doesn't carry either, you'll get all black otter carrying Himalayan (which can be shown, but shouldn't be bred or sold to those wanting to breed, because you don't want Himalayan in otter lines). If you get sables or (non martenized) Himalayans (which would happen if the otter also carries self) you can use those just like normal sables and Himalayans from all shaded background. If you get blacks, those can be used pretty easily in a shaded program. 


Generally, you want to keep otter and Himalayan separate, but anything with a sable background can mix with Himalayan fairly well.


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## countrygirl1178 (Dec 20, 2016)

Thanks sable steel 
          here is what is in the background of my black otter Seal- Silver Marten-Chestnut- Siamese Smoke Pearl
           here is what is in the background of my Himalayan Seal-Siamese Sable-Broken Siamese Sable-Siamese Smoke pearl so they have alot in common


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## Bunnylady (Dec 20, 2016)

countrygirl1178 said:


> Thanks sable steel
> here is what is in the background of my black otter Seal- Silver Marten-Chestnut- Siamese Smoke Pearl
> here is what is in the background of my Himalayan Seal-Siamese Sable-Broken Siamese Sable-Siamese Smoke pearl so they have alot in common




Obviously, no rabbit has 4 parents; what exactly is the breakdown of the parents, g-parents, etc of your rabbits? That would give us a better idea of what genes your pair are likely to have. 

Himi is recessive to shaded; so one thing you know right off is that your himi does not have a shaded gene. That being the case, one color you know you can't get from this pair is Seal. IDK how far back the chestnut is, but since tan pattern (otter) is recessive to agouti (chestnut) you know your otter doesn't have an agouti gene. 

It looks like your otter most likely has a self gene, so the probability of getting self-patterned colors like black and siamese sable seems pretty good. 

As I said when you asked this question on your own thread a week ago, the problem with doing a cross like this is the high probability of producing 'whoops' colors, and animals that would in turn give birth to 'whoops' colors. If all you want to do is make babies to sell as pets, well, the unshowable colors won't matter. But if you are interested in showing or selling to people that are interested in showing, it becomes more of an issue. When you take into account the numerically small size of ND litters, and realize how many reasons other than color that a Dwarf might be DQ'd (bad teeth, mismatched claws, oversized, etc), 'whoops' colors can become a real nuisance. While you can get showable colors from a cross like this, it's also possible that they may happen on animals that are DQ'd for another reason. With a little bad luck (forget the rabbit's foot nonsense; rabbits _love_ to drive us crazy!) it is possible to not get a single showable bunny from a cross like this. That is why my friend simply says "DON'T DO THIS" - doing crosses that have a guaranteed result of showable colors at least give you better odds of getting something useful.


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## countrygirl1178 (Dec 20, 2016)

So what would be my best option for breeding with her i have read and read again about genes so maybe someday I'll get it


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## SableSteel (Dec 20, 2016)

The best thing to breed a himi doe to is a seal, sable, smoke pearl, blue seal, or Himalayan.


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## countrygirl1178 (Dec 20, 2016)

Thanks i will start looking for a mate


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## countrygirl1178 (Dec 20, 2016)

Well i had at least one successful breeding my florida white had 6 pinkies but one didn't make it ....so my daughter said now you are a rabbit breeder


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## Bunnylady (Dec 20, 2016)

I'd prefer a straightforward self pattern; black, blue, chocolate, siamese sable, seal, maybe another himi.

To get a "good" himi, you need to get a himi gene from both parents. If you have one himi and one REW, the colored areas on the "points" will be smaller. Siamese sables with one shaded gene and one REW tend to be a bit lighter than you really want; himi + shaded is usually a better combination if you are working with shaded Dwarfs.


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## Marsha Kay (Feb 21, 2017)

Has anyone tried breeding standard Rex with a larger rabbit like a New Zealand or Silver Fox? Is there any larger breed you can cross with and maintain the Rex coat?


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## promiseacres (Feb 21, 2017)

Marsha Kay said:


> Has anyone tried breeding standard Rex with a larger rabbit like a New Zealand or Silver Fox? Is there any larger breed you can cross with and maintain the Rex coat?


Need to look it up but a rex, nz and sf are all 8 class rabbits, so all considered "large". Maintaining a good rex coat is very difficult if outcrossing.  Velveteen lop breeders have been breeding them for over 20 years, and a big complaint is coat consistency.  but they are getting closer. Probably would be to find and use the biggest rex you can find to get them larger.


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## Bunnylady (Feb 21, 2017)

The showable weights of the three breeds you mentioned are as follows:

Rex 
Sr. Bucks 7.5 - 9.5 lbs.
Sr. Does 8 - 10.5 lbs.

Silver Fox
Sr. Bucks 9 - 11 lbs
Sr. Does   10 - 12 lbs.

New Zealand
Sr. Bucks 9 - 11 lbs.
Sr. Does 10 - 12 lbs.

A Rex on the larger end of its showable size is within the size range of both the SF and the NZ, and even a smallish Rex is only a pound or so smaller than the minimum size for a SF or a NZ. 

As for the coat, the only large rabbit in the ARBA standard with a Rex coat is the Rex. Since everybody and their best friend likes to do all kinds of custom breeding, it's possible there *might* be an unrecognized largish Rex breed, but I don't know how you'd go about finding it.


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## Latestarter (Feb 22, 2017)

Greetings and welcome to BYH @Marsha Kay  Glad you joined us! There's lots of great info and shared knowledge in the various threads. Hope you'll make yourself at home and browse around. We also have a great group of active Rabbitteers so if you have other questions, if you post them, chances are pretty good someone will be along to help you out pretty quick.


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