# Sad Day: 1 doeling dead, mother has e-coli mastitis/toxemia



## hollycow (Jan 28, 2012)

I had posted an "is-she-or-isn't-she" pregnant thread a few weeks ago.  My Saanen, Gertie, whom I got 4 months ago, was pregnant and gave birth to 2 very small doelings ten days late on January 10.  The reason why I did not know that she was pregnant is because she has been steadily losing weight even though I was graining her and giving her really good hay.  I had the vet out right after the birth and the vet said Gertie was thin (2/5) and then took stool for analysis.  She also gave all 3 Selon-E.  The stool results came back as high parasite load so another vet came out 2 weeks ago and dewormed and vaccinated Gertie and disbudded the doelings for me.  The doelings have not grown much but did not seem ill as they were nursing.  Two days ago I noticed that Gertie had a chapped teat on one side and her udder was a bit larger on that side.  I disinfected my hands and the teat and then peeled a bit of the scab off of the bottom of the teat to allow the milk to flow.  I milked her out but did not have a bottle so gave the milk to the cats.  I disinfected the teat again then put on Bag Balm.  The doelings were both fighting for milk on one side and so yesterday when I milked out that side, I put the milk in a bottle and offered it to them.  The one doeling who did not suckle as well from the mother had to be forced to take the nipple.  She had the most milk so of course was dead today when I went in.  I still hadn't clued in but noticed that Gertie's udder was a bit larger on that side.  I milked out again and forced the surviving doeling to have more.  Then I looked at Gertie and looked and even though she was eating and walking around, my sixth sense went off.  I checked Gertie and her temp was 105.  I called the vet and she came out right away.  She diagnosed mastitis due to e-coli (the milk was watery and greenish but I have never even tried goat milk before, let alone seen it, so I did not know it was off).  The mastitis bacteria have gone into Gertie's blood and of course she is still emaciated.  The vet gave her an intra-venous shot of tetracycline and the baby a shot IM.  The mother also got anti-inflam and pain meds.  I have to give the tetra for the next 4 days, though the vet said that they both have only a 50% chance of surviving the night.  Here is the kicker ... I live 9 miles away from the barn.   I am in the process of moving and bought a fix-me-upper that is taking way longer than I thought to fix.  I will be in that house in less than 4 weeks but right now, I have already moved all the animals up to the new place as there I had a new barn built and where I am now there is lots of pasture but no shelter.  I am in a super cold zone.  I explained all this to the vet and she said that there was nothing more we could do tonight anyway so I am home now and will go back tomorrow.  I dread going in to find dead goats, even though the vet said we caught the toxemia early, Gertie is still so emaciated (she is thinking Johne's or CL as the other doe from this same place has a CL-typical lump on her cheek).  I only have 3 does in total so Gertie came to me sick, along with her mate Cara.  

I am very discouraged.  It is a lot for a newby dairy-goater like me.  I had a wether for a few years but does are new to me.


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## jodief100 (Jan 28, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear you lost one.  Goats sometimes have a steep learning curve.

I highly recommend doing what you can to get some kind of shelter.  Even a lean-to or small 3 walled structure will do, they don't need a huge amount of space. 

I wish you the best and am hoping your goats pull through.


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## hollycow (Jan 28, 2012)

Hi there and thanks.  No, where I am NOW there is no shelter which is why I have already moved the animals to my new place even though I am not living there yet.  The mother and baby goat are in a new barn in a 10 by 12 ft. pen with a heat lamp on in the corner for the babies.  I thought that I would be living in the new place by now but that house needed more work than we thought so I am still staying with my roommate, 9 miles down the road.  I had to move the animals before I made the move because winter was coming.


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## Chirpy (Jan 28, 2012)

I am so sorry.


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## crazyland (Jan 28, 2012)

So sorry to hear this. 
I hope they will be ok in the morning. What about pulling the kid and bottle feeding her?


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 29, 2012)

It is time to do some serious homework.  Parasite management is as important as proper nutrition.  Once you get the mastitis cleared up I would dry this doe off as quickly as possible.  It sounds like she has no reserves and a severely suppressed immune system.  I would get the kids on the bottle ASAP and feed them whole cow's milk from the grocery store- no replacer.  Folks who freshen does for milk only often balk when it's suggested they dry their doe off, but if she is emaciated she is in no condition to lactate.  A heavy producer will put all her feed into milk production and you will not put weight on her for the first couple months of lactation.  Push more and more grain in an effort to play catch up and you're looking at acidosis and founder.

Also, if your doe is CL+ please be aware that exudate will contaminate your soil.  Any new animals brought onto the property will be at risk.  Not all abscesses are CL (though many are!) so you really should have the exudate cultured.  A vet looking at it and saying 'yes, that's CL' is not a definitive diagnosis.  If your doe tests positive she should be culled.  Keeping a CL positive animal on your property right out of the starting gate is just ensuring that your heartache will continue on into the future.  In the short term euthanizing a CL+ animal is a tough pill to swallow, but if you want to stay in goats it is what is right for your long run outlook.

As a general statement (and chalk this up to lesson learned)... those newbs who are considering dairy goats- find yourself a well-managed, CAE tested, CL free herd and bring home a goat in good health.  It is hard enough for experienced folks to take on an issue like the OP is having with this doe and kids.  Let alone someone who is new to goats and feeling around in the dark.  It is setting yourself up for failure.

Hollycow- you really need a dairy goat mentor.  Find out who is raising clean, healthy herds in your area (CAE tested!!) and start asking around.  You really are in over your head with this doe.  That's not a value judgement and I'm not saying you can't be successful moving forward.  But you must know it's time to get some help or you wouldn't have posted on the forum.


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## hollycow (Jan 29, 2012)

Thank you, truly.  I agree about the homework and in being over my head.  I wish I had a mentor; there are no goat people around here at all.  I sought help in the only way I could: by calling the vet out 3 times in the past 3 weeks.

I did a lot of research on CL and the vet is culturing the exudate from the other doe.

The vet said not to pull the kid last night.  I will definitely dry off and had wanted to even before the mastitis but had no access to goat milk replacer and did not realize (again, ignorance on my part) that I could give cow's milk.  By "whole" milk, do you mean in the organic section or the homogenized stuff (which is likely all I can get out here)? 

I looked up e-coli based mastitis last night and it is always due to environmental contaminants.  I am surprised as I only keep the doe and kid in their pen and change their bedding daily.  I also know that e-coli does exist everywhere and it is likely her depressed system that allowed it to overwhelm her.  

Now on to reading about bottle-feeding ...


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## jodief100 (Jan 29, 2012)

I hope all is well this morning.  The homogenized whole cows milk in the regular section will be fine.  If possible, milk the doe and mix it with the cows milk and slowly reduce the amount of goat milk to transition the baby.  You will need to slowly dry the doe off or the mastitis will get worse. 

I also suggest keeping the old bedding in the shelter and piling new on top of it.  This will keep them much warmer.  Come spring clean the whole thing out.  

Good luck.

Roll Farms is a good person to talk to about bottle feeding.


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## Chicks&Feathers (Jan 29, 2012)

I am very sorry to hear all of this. I truly hope you can find a good mentor in your area. This forum has great people on it though to offer what help they can! Best wishes to you!


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 29, 2012)

So sorry.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 30, 2012)

Yes, regular whole Vitamin D cow's milk from the grocery store is suitable for kids.  It can be harder to get them going on the bottle the older they are.

I also don't believe that 4 days is a long enough course of antibiotics.  How much experience does your vet have with goats specifically?  I know you had to call the only help you could get and any vet is better than no vet, but always keep in mind that vet experience can be seriously limited with goats.  I work for a vet but still pay full price for a goat vet outside of the clinic when I have a real issue.  Nothing wrong with the vet I work for if you have cats or dogs, but he knows next to nothing about goats.  Work closely with your vet, but don't be afraid to bring valuable insight into the conversation from outside sources.

Hopefully you can get Gertie patched up quickly and on the road to full recovery.


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## hollycow (Jan 30, 2012)

Thank you,

I have left the baby with the mother but I am supplementally feeding.  She only nurses on the good side and I really do not think there is much milk.  I had no access to whole cow's milk so used homogenized the first night for the baby then bought two percent goat's milk.  As per Fiasco Farm, I am giving it mixed in with a bit of Vanilla Ensure.  I am feeding three times a day.  I am milking out Gertie's bad side three times a day as well.  I slather it with Bag Balm and massage when done.  I am giving Gertie some yogurt with probiotics as well in the middle of the day to help with the rumen flora.  I was going to give the abx longer anyway as I also felt 4 days was too short.  I am doing what I can.  I also appealed to another forum since the more info, the better, right? and I have not heard yet back after my email requesting to be enrolled.

ETA She took to the bottle very well as I suspect that she was hungry but she chews on it rather than suckles and I have gone through quite a few of those soft rubber lamp nipples already because she ends up shearing a huge rip on the side of it from the chewing action.  Not sure what to do about this.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 30, 2012)

Skip the udder balm.  It creates a moist environment where bacteria can thrive.  The best thing you can do is keep her udder clean and above all DRY.  I highly recommend cleaning her udder and dipping teats with a chlorhexidine wash.  It will disinfect without drying out her skin.  The massages are a great idea and milk her out as often as you can each day.

If your kid is strong enough to tear the soft rubber (e.g. Pritchard) nipples then you can use the black rubber ones designed to slip onto a regular plastic or glass bottle soda bottle.  They're tough enough to withstand older, stronger kids and are generally available at feed stores like Tractor Supply.


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## hollycow (Jan 31, 2012)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> If your kid is strong enough to tear the soft rubber (e.g. Pritchard) nipples then you can use the black rubber ones designed to slip onto a regular plastic or glass bottle soda bottle.  They're tough enough to withstand older, stronger kids and are generally available at feed stores like Tractor Supply.


I am using those.  I am wondering if I should try a baby bottle as per Fiasco.


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## Roll farms (Jan 31, 2012)

I ordered nipples through Caprine Supply (gray in color, pop bottle nipples) and those suckers are indestructable.  I've been using the same ones for 8 or 10 yrs.

I don't like using baby bottles since as the kids get older you'd need 3 total to equal the 20 oz a standard kid drinks, 3x a day.

Here's a page about baby raising:


http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=586-baby-goat-info

good luck!


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