# Questions on Feeding Nigerian Wethers



## kam (Jun 6, 2012)

Hi, I'm new here and new to goats. We just got 3 ND wethers over the weekend. They are about 9 weeks old and were banded at 8 weeks.  I have spent so much time reading about hay, grain, and urinary calculi that I now can't see straight and am so worried I'm going to kill these little guys by not feeding them right 


Right now they are eating:

Free choice grass hay
Blue Seal meat goat feed-contains AC and has min. 0.45% Phosphorous and 0.50%-1% Calcium (2 cups a day divided between the 3)
Free choice Sweetlix minerals- we got this from the breeder, but I am considering switching to the Golden Seal brand Hoeggers sells. 
They also have browse/pasture grass available

So my questions- 

Do you think I should be supplementing with alfalfa? Or would the Calhos ratio in the grain be okay? I only want to supplement with alfalfa if necessary and am afraid of throwing things off by adding it in if the grain is already balanced enough. 
Would you add extra AC in addition to what is in the feed? Our water is acidic already so I won't be adding AC vinegar or anything like that to it. 
Does the amount of grain seem okay? We give them 1 shared cup twice a day- the human kids handfeed them. The amount was recommended by the breeder, but not sure if it's enough?

Really appreciate any advice- the more I read the more confused I get about this stuff. Thanks so much!


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Jun 6, 2012)

This time of year, my NG Wether is on pasture only.  He does have free choice minerals available.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 6, 2012)

No, the Ca ratios in your grain are not necessarily sufficient.  Grain and grass hay without alfalfa (or another legume) to balance your ratios is a recipe for UC.  If you don't have quality alfalfa hay available locally then alfalfa pellets are a perfectly good option.  My growing kids have alfalfa available free choice.  Once they mature your wethers will maintain good body condition on hay/browse and alfalfa alone (no grain).  Even while they're growing, a good quality alfalfa is going to provide most of what they need.


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## lilhill (Jun 6, 2012)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> No, the Ca ratios in your grain are not necessarily sufficient.  Grain and grass hay without alfalfa (or another legume) to balance your ratios is a recipe for UC.  If you don't have quality alfalfa hay available locally then alfalfa pellets are a perfectly good option.  My growing kids have alfalfa available free choice.  Once they mature your wethers will maintain good body condition on hay/browse and alfalfa alone (no grain).  Even while they're growing, a good quality alfalfa is going to provide most of what they need.


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## elevan (Jun 6, 2012)

n.smithurmond makes a great point about balancing the Cah ratio of what you are feeding.

You can check out the Goat Feeding discussion thread for a lot more information on how members feed their goats too.  You'll find the link in my signature below.


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## kam (Jun 7, 2012)

Thanks everyone, I will get them some alfalfa pellets and read through the thread mentioned. I know when they get older they will just be on browse/pasture/grass hay and minerals-it's this time when they are still growing and need some grain that is confusing to me. But sounds like the alfalfa and grain together with the grass hay will be okay.


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## NannaSue (Jun 18, 2012)

SMITHURMONDS DAIRY GOATS
ADGA LaMancha and Nigerian Dwarf Goats
SAYS:
"Questions on Feeding Nigerian Wethers
No, the Ca ratios in your grain are not necessarily sufficient.  Grain and grass hay without alfalfa (or another legume) to balance your ratios is a recipe for UC.  If you don't have quality alfalfa hay available locally then alfalfa pellets are a perfectly good option.  My growing kids have alfalfa available free choice.  Once they mature your wethers will maintain good body condition on hay/browse and alfalfa alone (no grain).  Even while they're growing, a good quality alfalfa is going to provide most of what they need"


I'm rather confused now, I just read that I shouldn't give alfalfa to my new ND wether that it would cause the problem with Urinary Calculii.  I have almost no browsing/grazing right now.  I'm getting new fencing built to include my one and a half acres and then there will be much more.    I have a feed from Palmer's Feed in San Angelo, TX that is called  Goat grower with 18% protein which was recommended to me by the breeder.    I have a grass based hay called coastal.  I also have the alfalfa cubes which I have had to break up with vice grips due to their size.   My goats are unable to eat it as it is from the bag.  I got a fifty pound bag from Tractor Supply.  The bag wasn't transparent so I didn't see how large the pellets/cubes were.   I've put apple cider vinegar in the water as I was told this would be healthy for the goats, especially the wether, and reduce the incidence of algae.  Thanks to y'all for your advice.  I love my babies and don't want to hurt them by ignorance. I have "Raising Goats for Dummies", "Pygmy Goats, management and veterinary care", and" Personal Milkers a guide to Nigerian Dwarf Goat keeping".  I asked the only local veterinarians that treat livestock if our soil has enough selenium and they didn't know.  Is there some way to find out what I should give as a mineral supplement?  When I ask at the feed store or local ranchers I am looked at as though I'm a bit batty since my goats aren't for slaughter. I would like to get my does who will be getting milked when they kid around Christmas time, off feed with chemicals, antibiotics, etc.  Does anyone have suggestions?   Are there any other West Texans with the kind of scrub land that I have?  I am heading over to the link provide by  Elevan to lean more! 
Thanks everyone for your help and patience!
NannaSue


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 19, 2012)

This is misinformation that unfortunately keeps getting perpetuated.  Too much calcium does not cause UC.  Too much phosphorous and not enough calcium is what causes UC.  They need to be balanced.  Feeding only grain and grass hay, both of which are high in P and low in Ca is a recipe for UC!  They have to have a source of dietary calcium.

Pellets and cubes aren't the same.  The alfalfa cubes are a pain- alfalfa pellets can be fed straight from the bag, no need to soak or ruin your hands trying to break them up.  Alfalfa hay is another option (for those who live outside the South), as is Chaffhaye which is what I feed.

The best argument to supplementing with selenium regardless of your soil content I've heard is this: how much of your feed is produced locally?  You may live in an area that is not considered deficient, but where is your feed and hay produced?  I give BoSe at lest twice yearly and always 2 weeks prior to kidding and prior to breeding.  This includes bucks and does.  Cu twice yearly as well.

My milkers eat a ration that does not include medicated feed or byproducts.  Their main source of grain is whole oats (with a couple other things mixed in) and of course their protein and calcium source is alfalfa.


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## NannaSue (Jun 19, 2012)

N.Smithurmond:         Thank you soo much. And I'm sure my little guy thanks you too.  I found out what BOSS is and am heading to Ace Hardware to get a bag, as well as going to feed store to get more feed.  I'm going to try to find alfalfa pellets locally.  My wether chewed down on the crushed up alfalfa this morning, very grateful for the yummy taste I'm sure.  The COB that I've seen referred to, corn oats and barley, Is that something people mix themselves?  The feed stores here don't carry barley, and it's rather pricey to buy it at the grocery stores.  Any suggestions are welcome.  Is the corn, just regular deer corn?  Are the oats, the whole oat grout, or rolled?  I am certainly a 'newbie' even though I've had my two "grade"Pygmies about a year. My adult kids had heard from friends that Pygmies would eat all of the weeds down and we got a doe and her doeling.  I just followed their advice about care and feeding.  But now I'm learning so much from y'all and books.
  I have a Barbado sheep that I've been trying to re-home so that I can focus on my goats.  My vet said that I could leave out a goat mineral block with copper because he THOUGHT that he breed wouldn't have a problem with copper and die from it.  I may head over to the sheep sites to find out the real facts.
Again, I really appreciate all the advice and kind patience!
NannaSue


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## NannaSue (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi everybody,,,
Well, I just left Ace  with a twenty pound bag of black sunflower seed @$14.99/bag and another labeled black sunflower seed, 10 pound @12.99/bag.  The description of the smaller bag called it "black oil sunflower seed" and the nutritional analysis between the two products was slightly different.  The basic sunflower seed had more protein and less fat that the BLACK OIL sunflower seed.   
So, my question is, what is the actual difference?  Taking samples of each they seem identical.The ingredients list for both are the same"Sunflower Seed". Anybody want to take a shot at educating me? 
I'm wondering if the plain BSS would hurt them vs help them....   We could always feed the birds
Thanks again,
NannaSue


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 21, 2012)

The only benefit to feeding BOSS is to increase their fat %.  With the price of BOSS being what it is these days I find rice bran to be a more cost effective fat source.  You'd have to do the math to see which of the seeds is giving you the highest % of fat per dollar and ignore the protein levels.


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## sambullbee (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I am new to having goats and i don't get mine (2 Nigerian wethers) until Sunday and i am trying to get my yard in order and remove anything that could pose a problem.
I heard that cherries are toxic to goats.  my question is......is it just the cherry itself or the bark or all???
Any help would be wonderful.

Thank you,

Samantha 
New goat owner


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