# Showing cattle



## baileybear4

I've never done it before but it is something I'm very interested in. I plan to go to an auction not this Thursday but the next and I have my heart set on purchasing a calf. I know that the calves at auctions usually aren't show material but I'm going to do this anyways. Please don't let the extensive list of questions turn you off...

1. Can you show any breed of cattle?
2. Can you show any sex?
3. Do you have to have papers on the animal?
4. Are there age limits? As in, can I show my cow throughout its entire life or only up to a certain age?
5. Where do I find out about shows?
6. Can adults show the animals?
7. How much do show cattle typically cost? 
8. Are there different classes? (dairy, meat, etc)
9. If I were to purchase a calf at an auction could I show it? 
10. Can you keep just one cow by itself?


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## TigerLilly

The only one of these I can answer is #10--cows are herd animals & as such do better with at least another cow.
As for the rest of your questions, I'm waiting to hear the answers as well!


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## baileybear4

Well even better. I'd like two calves


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## TigerLilly

baileybear4 said:
			
		

> Well even better. I'd like two calves


Sounds like a good reason to have more than one if you ask me! (That's the excuse I use for having more than one...or 2 or 4...and you cant have an odd # because one will feel left out!
I'm glad you posted this question--although I do not have time to show at this stage of my life, I'm thinking that it might be fun to do when I retire!


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## WildRoseBeef

baileybear4 said:
			
		

> I've never done it before but it is something I'm very interested in. I plan to go to an auction not this Thursday but the next and I have my heart set on purchasing a calf. I know that the calves at auctions usually aren't show material but I'm going to do this anyways. Please don't let the extensive list of questions turn you off...
> 
> 1. Can you show any breed of cattle?
> *As far as I know, yes, you can even show crossbreds especially in a beef show-steer class. My cousin showed a charolais-hereford-cross steer in the local 4H (we don't have the FFA up here) and I think he either got first or second place in his class. But I don't think there's a commercial show for crossbred cows or bulls, they have to be purebred in order to be shown.*
> 2. Can you show any sex?
> *That just depends on what class you're showing in.  In most cases, yes. *
> 3. Do you have to have papers on the animal?
> *Only if you're competing in a show with purebreds.  You have to have proof that the animal you're showing IS pure and not straightbred or some mutt that looks like a certain breed but DNA tests show otherwise.*
> 4. Are there age limits? As in, can I show my cow throughout its entire life or only up to a certain age?
> *For show steers, there's a certain age when you have to start training it for show up to the time when it is shown then slaughtered. Same with heifers.  With cows and bulls, you can show at any age as long as they have the conformation that makes them competitive for the show ring.  If they're too old they can miss out due to certain conformational flaws like a broken down udder, bad teeth, etc*.
> 5. Where do I find out about shows?
> *Contact your local 4H or FFA chapter for information.  Usually there's advertisements in a local newspaper or agricultural newspaper or magazine, or even asking at the feed store for anything.*
> 6. Can adults show the animals?
> *You will have to check with your local 4H or FFA chapter.  4H and FFA only allow kids up to 18 years old to show livestock.  Adults can show cattle if they have a registered herd they want to show off at the show ring.*
> 7. How much do show cattle typically cost?
> *Can be any price.  An animal isn't a show animal until you train it to be a show animal.  Don't buy an animal that is too cheap, because you may get what you paid for.  Don't try to look for something the most pricey because sometimes you could just get ripped off at the high price and the animal isn't as much of a show-winner as you thought he/she would be when you bought him.*
> 8. Are there different classes? (dairy, meat, etc)
> *Yes.  There are dairy and beef classes, purebred classes, cow-calf, bull and heifer classes, etc.*
> 9. If I were to purchase a calf at an auction could I show it?
> *I would be really leery of buying ANYTHING at an auction.  There's a reason animals are being sold through an auction and 9 times out of 10 they're culls, not animals suitable for show.  Sure you can show it, but chances are you may not get any ribbons from it, not like if you went to a farm to look at and choose the animals there.  Animals go through really quick at a salebarn (or auction) and simply will not give you enough time to analyze an animal for conformation, temperament, breed, or anything.  You won't get any papers from an auction-bought animal either.*
> 10. Can you keep just one cow by itself?


You could, but there's nothing wrong with keeping more than one.  Cattle are herd animals and thrive best if with company of their own kind.

So what class are you interested in showing in, beef or dairy?


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## jhm47

Do a Google search for Lautner Farms, or a search for show cattle.  You will find hundreds of sources and information.


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## baileybear4

WildRoseBeef said:
			
		

> baileybear4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've never done it before but it is something I'm very interested in. I plan to go to an auction not this Thursday but the next and I have my heart set on purchasing a calf. I know that the calves at auctions usually aren't show material but I'm going to do this anyways. Please don't let the extensive list of questions turn you off...
> 
> 1. Can you show any breed of cattle?
> *As far as I know, yes, you can even show crossbreds especially in a beef show-steer class. My cousin showed a charolais-hereford-cross steer in the local 4H (we don't have the FFA up here) and I think he either got first or second place in his class. But I don't think there's a commercial show for crossbred cows or bulls, they have to be purebred in order to be shown.*
> 2. Can you show any sex?
> *That just depends on what class you're showing in.  In most cases, yes. *
> 3. Do you have to have papers on the animal?
> *Only if you're competing in a show with purebreds.  You have to have proof that the animal you're showing IS pure and not straightbred or some mutt that looks like a certain breed but DNA tests show otherwise.*
> 4. Are there age limits? As in, can I show my cow throughout its entire life or only up to a certain age?
> *For show steers, there's a certain age when you have to start training it for show up to the time when it is shown then slaughtered. Same with heifers.  With cows and bulls, you can show at any age as long as they have the conformation that makes them competitive for the show ring.  If they're too old they can miss out due to certain conformational flaws like a broken down udder, bad teeth, etc*.
> 5. Where do I find out about shows?
> *Contact your local 4H or FFA chapter for information.  Usually there's advertisements in a local newspaper or agricultural newspaper or magazine, or even asking at the feed store for anything.*
> 6. Can adults show the animals?
> *You will have to check with your local 4H or FFA chapter.  4H and FFA only allow kids up to 18 years old to show livestock.  Adults can show cattle if they have a registered herd they want to show off at the show ring.*
> 7. How much do show cattle typically cost?
> *Can be any price.  An animal isn't a show animal until you train it to be a show animal.  Don't buy an animal that is too cheap, because you may get what you paid for.  Don't try to look for something the most pricey because sometimes you could just get ripped off at the high price and the animal isn't as much of a show-winner as you thought he/she would be when you bought him.*
> 8. Are there different classes? (dairy, meat, etc)
> *Yes.  There are dairy and beef classes, purebred classes, cow-calf, bull and heifer classes, etc.*
> 9. If I were to purchase a calf at an auction could I show it?
> *I would be really leery of buying ANYTHING at an auction.  There's a reason animals are being sold through an auction and 9 times out of 10 they're culls, not animals suitable for show.  Sure you can show it, but chances are you may not get any ribbons from it, not like if you went to a farm to look at and choose the animals there.  Animals go through really quick at a salebarn (or auction) and simply will not give you enough time to analyze an animal for conformation, temperament, breed, or anything.  You won't get any papers from an auction-bought animal either.*
> 10. Can you keep just one cow by itself?
> 
> 
> 
> You could, but there's nothing wrong with keeping more than one.  Cattle are herd animals and thrive best if with company of their own kind.
> 
> So what class are you interested in showing in, beef or dairy?
Click to expand...

Thank you so so much for answering all of my questions. I know I should be leery of buying an animal at an auction but I feel its kind of like adopting an animal from a shelter. Maybe I'll get one from the auction as company for my show cow. That's sort of what I did with my goats. I just don't want to pay a ton of money for some fancy schmancy steer. I'm thinking beef. It seems to be simpler than dairy


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## baileybear4

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Do a Google search for Lautner Farms, or a search for show cattle.  You will find hundreds of sources and information.


Those are beautiful cows but jeeeeeeeezz those prices...


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## WildRoseBeef

Are you considering buying a beef steer or an actual cow like not the general term-cow but the mature-female-bovine cow?  I'd be even more leery of buying a cow from an auction than what I mentioned above, even if it does seem to be adopting an animal from a shelter.  But this is a show animal, not a family pet. You need to look for QUALITY, not something to adopt and care for.  If you want to win, you need to be really careful in finding the animal that's best for the show ring.  If not, and are simply trying to find something that gives you the experience of showing, caring for and owning an animal, well then that's a little different.

With steers, you will be hard-pressed to find a single steer that will be purchased for show.  Most steers at the age/weight you need to start at to begin showing are sold in groups.  That's why I say you're better off going to a farm or ranch (doesn't have to be a farm/ranch with a registered herd either) to look for a good animal to show than going through the auction.

Just remember that, if you buy a heifer instead of a steer, show heifers are the worse breeders.  They often have way too much fat on them to be good enough to be used as a brood cow.  Too much fat deposits in the udder and in and around the reproductive organs (vulva, vagina, ovaries, etc.) can make her have low fertility or a very poor milk producer.  If you want to buy a heifer, get one for raising as a replacement ONLY for a starting cow-calf herd, not for show.


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## baileybear4

WildRoseBeef said:
			
		

> Are you considering buying a beef steer or an actual cow like not the general term-cow but the mature-female-bovine cow?  I'd be even more leery of buying a cow from an auction than what I mentioned above, even if it does seem to be adopting an animal from a shelter.  But this is a show animal, not a family pet. You need to look for QUALITY, not something to adopt and care for.  If you want to win, you need to be really careful in finding the animal that's best for the show ring.  If not, and are simply trying to find something that gives you the experience of showing, caring for and owning an animal, well then that's a little different.
> 
> With steers, you will be hard-pressed to find a single steer that will be purchased for show.  Most steers at the age/weight you need to start at to begin showing are sold in groups.  That's why I say you're better off going to a farm or ranch (doesn't have to be a farm/ranch with a registered herd either) to look for a good animal to show than going through the auction.
> 
> Just remember that, if you buy a heifer instead of a steer, show heifers are the worse breeders.  They often have way too much fat on them to be good enough to be used as a brood cow.  Too much fat deposits in the udder and in and around the reproductive organs (vulva, vagina, ovaries, etc.) can make her have low fertility or a very poor milk producer.  If you want to buy a heifer, get one for raising as a replacement ONLY for a starting cow-calf herd, not for show.


I would get a beef steer not a mature female. I would rather get the cheaper animal and gain experience than spend the money on the quality animal just in case I don't like showing cows. I am notorious for trying something once and eagerly moving on to the next thing. If I decided not to continue showing after the first season then I would have a lovely animal but lots of wasted money (In my parent's eyes anyways).
  It just seems more practical to get the best one I can at the auction for like 80 bucks and then have the rest of my funds to spend on the weigh ins, transportation, blood work, etc. As opposed to spending...a lot on a show animal and then not having enough left over to pay for all of the stuff I need to have done. I'm not really sure how much they are. I know a friend of mine has one thats worth 6000. I definitely can't afford that. 
  I know for sure that if I like it, I will definitely be making the investment in a show quality animal. I just want to be sure before I take the risk. 
Do the steers have to be dehorned if they are going to be shown? What do you mean by "...get one for raising as a replacement ONLY for a starting cow-calf herd, not for show"?


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## WildRoseBeef

baileybear4 said:
			
		

> WildRoseBeef said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you considering buying a beef steer or an actual cow like not the general term-cow but the mature-female-bovine cow?  I'd be even more leery of buying a cow from an auction than what I mentioned above, even if it does seem to be adopting an animal from a shelter.  But this is a show animal, not a family pet. You need to look for QUALITY, not something to adopt and care for.  If you want to win, you need to be really careful in finding the animal that's best for the show ring.  If not, and are simply trying to find something that gives you the experience of showing, caring for and owning an animal, well then that's a little different.
> 
> With steers, you will be hard-pressed to find a single steer that will be purchased for show.  Most steers at the age/weight you need to start at to begin showing are sold in groups.  That's why I say you're better off going to a farm or ranch (doesn't have to be a farm/ranch with a registered herd either) to look for a good animal to show than going through the auction.
> 
> Just remember that, if you buy a heifer instead of a steer, show heifers are the worse breeders.  They often have way too much fat on them to be good enough to be used as a brood cow.  Too much fat deposits in the udder and in and around the reproductive organs (vulva, vagina, ovaries, etc.) can make her have low fertility or a very poor milk producer.  If you want to buy a heifer, get one for raising as a replacement ONLY for a starting cow-calf herd, not for show.
> 
> 
> 
> I would get a beef steer not a mature female. I would rather get the cheaper animal and gain experience than spend the money on the quality animal just in case I don't like showing cows. I am notorious for trying something once and eagerly moving on to the next thing. If I decided not to continue showing after the first season then I would have a lovely animal but lots of wasted money (In my parent's eyes anyways).
> It just seems more practical to get the best one I can at the auction for like 80 bucks and then have the rest of my funds to spend on the weigh ins, transportation, blood work, etc. As opposed to spending...a lot on a show animal and then not having enough left over to pay for all of the stuff I need to have done. I'm not really sure how much they are. I know a friend of mine has one thats worth 6000. I definitely can't afford that.
> I know for sure that if I like it, I will definitely be making the investment in a show quality animal. I just want to be sure before I take the risk.
Click to expand...

Very good choices, and some wise decisions!  You never know, you may not like the showing part, but you may get hooked on the raising-cattle-part. You probably have GAS (Goat Addiction Syndrome) already, but then you may have CRAP too (Cattle Raising Addiction Problem). 



> Do the steers have to be dehorned if they are going to be shown? What do you mean by "...get one for raising as a replacement ONLY for a starting cow-calf herd, not for show"?


As far as I'm aware yes, but of course only if the one you bought is horned.  If any, try to get a steer that is polled (has no horns) to avoid the painful process of dehorning.  There are a lot of steers around that are polled, much more than in the past, but you still need to be careful and keep on the lookout.

I was talking about if you decided to purchase a heifer instead of a steer to not use her as a breeder if she's being used/raised for show purposes.  That's what replacement heifers are: they are raised for the purpose of replacing brood cows in a cow-calf herd.


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## SheepGirl

I don't think you can get cattle at auction for $80 unless it's a dairy bull calf. At our local auction, a 400# steer is selling for $1/lb. That's $400.


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## jhm47

A sale report for some feeder calves in this area.  Top line is description of animals, middle is weight, and bottom is $ per hundred pounds.  As you can see, the market is quite high right now.  Some 400 lb. steers are bringing up to $800.00 per head.

Market Report for


Thursday, February 16, 2012 


 Heifers:

 Lbs.
 Per CWT

Oriska
 Bwf hfrs
 358
 $187.00

Britton
 Blk hfrs
 385
 185.00

Milnor
 Char hfrs
 390
 184.00

Milnor
 Char hfrs
 334
 180.25

Lake City
 Blk hfrs
 494
 173.00

Hecla
 Blk hfrs
 475
 172.00

Cogswell
 Blk hfrs
 435
 171.00

Milnor
 Char hfrs
 488
 170.00

Milnor
 Char hfrs
 558
 165.50

Oriska
 Bwf hfrs
 553
 165.00

Cogswell
 Red hfrs
 585
 163.00

Havana
 Char hfrs
 568
 161.00

Cogswell
 Blk hfrs
 558
 158.00

Britton
 Blk hfrs
 609
 157.50

Hecla
 Red hfrs
 594
 157.00

Lake City
 Blk hfrs
 666
 155.50

Britton
 Blk hfrs
 612
 155.50

Havana
 Char hfrs
 700
 147.00

Hecla
 Blk hfrs
 701
 145.75

Cogswell
 Red hfrs
 702
 144.00

Hecla
 Blk hfrs
 806
 141.00

Hecla
 Blk hfrs
 820
 138.20



 Steers:

 Lbs.
 Per CWT

Milnor
 Char strs
 387
 $201.00

Cogswell
 Blk strs
 390
 201.00

Oriska
 Blk strs
 418
 199.00

Lake City
 Blk strs
 463
 197.00

Britton
 Red strs
 503
 195.00

Havana
 Char strs
 523
 186.50

Milnor
 Char strs
 515
 182.00

Forman
 Blk strs
 595
 175.00

Britton
 Blk strs
 620
 173.00

Langford
 Blk strs
 650
 173.00

Aberdeen
 Mix strs
 630
 171.00

Britton
 Blk strs
 658
 167.00

Lake City
 Blk strs
 674
 166.75

Milnor
 Char strs
 651
 166.50

Rutland
 Blk strs
 675
 166.00

Cogswell
 Red strs
 665
 162.00

Havana
 Char strs
 837
 162.00

Forman
 Blk strs
 748
 153.50

Havana
 Herf strs
 730
 152.50

Hecla
 Blk strs
 724
 151.00

Langford
 Char strs
 793
 150.00

Cogswell
 Red strs
 809
 146.00

Rutland
 Blk strs
 802
 146.00

Milnor
 Blk strs
 814
 145.75

Milnor
 Blk strs
 957
 142.00

Milnor
 Blk strs
 927
 141.00

Hecla
 Blk strs
 889
 140.00

Hecla
 Blk strs
 828
 140.00

Britton
 Red strs
 1025
 139.40

Milnor
 Blk strs
 1054
 138.25


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## Cricket

I don't know anything about the beef auction, but if you get a dairy bull at the farm, you will not only be saving him his after-auction fate, you will be saving him from being trucked all over in who knows what kind of weather with all kinds of other animals, exposed to how many different kinds of diseases.  Most of the calves I get, I wait until spring when they calve outdoors and they just don't get sick.  It is super gratifying to nurse a baby animal back to health, but having to shoot one that isn't going to pull through and just won't die can totally ruin it for you.  Those auction calves all come from a farm somewhere, doesn't meant they're fancy, and most all of them are not going to be raised to 'have a job'!  You may as well cut out the middleman!  Good luck!


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## Cricket

> you may have CRAP too (Cattle Raising Addiction Problem).


Good one, WRB!


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## baileybear4

jhm47 said:
			
		

> A sale report for some feeder calves in this area.  Top line is description of animals, middle is weight, and bottom is $ per hundred pounds.  As you can see, the market is quite high right now.  Some 400 lb. steers are bringing up to $800.00 per head.
> 
> Market Report for
> 
> 
> Thursday, February 16, 2012
> 
> 
> Heifers:
> 
> Lbs.
> Per CWT
> 
> Oriska
> Bwf hfrs
> 358
> $187.00
> 
> Britton
> Blk hfrs
> 385
> 185.00
> 
> Milnor
> Char hfrs
> 390
> 184.00
> 
> Milnor
> Char hfrs
> 334
> 180.25
> 
> Lake City
> Blk hfrs
> 494
> 173.00
> 
> Hecla
> Blk hfrs
> 475
> 172.00
> 
> Cogswell
> Blk hfrs
> 435
> 171.00
> 
> Milnor
> Char hfrs
> 488
> 170.00
> 
> Milnor
> Char hfrs
> 558
> 165.50
> 
> Oriska
> Bwf hfrs
> 553
> 165.00
> 
> Cogswell
> Red hfrs
> 585
> 163.00
> 
> Havana
> Char hfrs
> 568
> 161.00
> 
> Cogswell
> Blk hfrs
> 558
> 158.00
> 
> Britton
> Blk hfrs
> 609
> 157.50
> 
> Hecla
> Red hfrs
> 594
> 157.00
> 
> Lake City
> Blk hfrs
> 666
> 155.50
> 
> Britton
> Blk hfrs
> 612
> 155.50
> 
> Havana
> Char hfrs
> 700
> 147.00
> 
> Hecla
> Blk hfrs
> 701
> 145.75
> 
> Cogswell
> Red hfrs
> 702
> 144.00
> 
> Hecla
> Blk hfrs
> 806
> 141.00
> 
> Hecla
> Blk hfrs
> 820
> 138.20
> 
> 
> 
> Steers:
> 
> Lbs.
> Per CWT
> 
> Milnor
> Char strs
> 387
> $201.00
> 
> Cogswell
> Blk strs
> 390
> 201.00
> 
> Oriska
> Blk strs
> 418
> 199.00
> 
> Lake City
> Blk strs
> 463
> 197.00
> 
> Britton
> Red strs
> 503
> 195.00
> 
> Havana
> Char strs
> 523
> 186.50
> 
> Milnor
> Char strs
> 515
> 182.00
> 
> Forman
> Blk strs
> 595
> 175.00
> 
> Britton
> Blk strs
> 620
> 173.00
> 
> Langford
> Blk strs
> 650
> 173.00
> 
> Aberdeen
> Mix strs
> 630
> 171.00
> 
> Britton
> Blk strs
> 658
> 167.00
> 
> Lake City
> Blk strs
> 674
> 166.75
> 
> Milnor
> Char strs
> 651
> 166.50
> 
> Rutland
> Blk strs
> 675
> 166.00
> 
> Cogswell
> Red strs
> 665
> 162.00
> 
> Havana
> Char strs
> 837
> 162.00
> 
> Forman
> Blk strs
> 748
> 153.50
> 
> Havana
> Herf strs
> 730
> 152.50
> 
> Hecla
> Blk strs
> 724
> 151.00
> 
> Langford
> Char strs
> 793
> 150.00
> 
> Cogswell
> Red strs
> 809
> 146.00
> 
> Rutland
> Blk strs
> 802
> 146.00
> 
> Milnor
> Blk strs
> 814
> 145.75
> 
> Milnor
> Blk strs
> 957
> 142.00
> 
> Milnor
> Blk strs
> 927
> 141.00
> 
> Hecla
> Blk strs
> 889
> 140.00
> 
> Hecla
> Blk strs
> 828
> 140.00
> 
> Britton
> Red strs
> 1025
> 139.40
> 
> Milnor
> Blk strs
> 1054
> 138.25


I guess I can forget getting a cow. As a student, I have a very limited budget. This is definitely not going to work


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## baileybear4

Cricket said:
			
		

> I don't know anything about the beef auction, but if you get a dairy bull at the farm, you will not only be saving him his after-auction fate, you will be saving him from being trucked all over in who knows what kind of weather with all kinds of other animals, exposed to how many different kinds of diseases.  Most of the calves I get, I wait until spring when they calve outdoors and they just don't get sick.  It is super gratifying to nurse a baby animal back to health, but having to shoot one that isn't going to pull through and just won't die can totally ruin it for you.  Those auction calves all come from a farm somewhere, doesn't meant they're fancy, and most all of them are not going to be raised to 'have a job'!  You may as well cut out the middleman!  Good luck!


Maybe I can find someone who will loan me a steer to show. I know several people who pay a yearly fee to show someone else's cow. My only concern with the auction is the diseases. I don't want to expose my animals to anything.


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## goodhors

Before giving up, where do you plan to show the cattle?  If you said, I missed it.

Local Fairs, 4-H competitions, will let you raise a calf and compete it as a steer
in their various classes.  Getting a Fair Book will let you see what classes are
available, to get a calf that will fit into those catagories.

Each County is different, so read YOUR Fair rules to know exactly what is expected
and required.

Our Fair has Calf classes, for small beef animals.  They call it Prospect Beef, while
someone else might call it Feeder Calves.  Our rules say the animals can NOT go
over 500# to sell at the Auction of animals.  You can show one a bit over 500# in the 
classes, just not sell at Fair.

Money is in the selling of these calves at the Fair Auction, with inspired buyers, generous
folks buying to "help the 4-H kids", so they often pay a LOT more than the regular
auction price for these animals.  They do get the bonus of TAME calves, easy to handle, 
manage as they increase in size.  A number of 4-H kids do buy their future beef steer for next
season at the Fair Auction, show him as Big Beef next year.

We turned a fair profit buying bottle babies, showing in Prospect Beef and selling at Fair.
Ours were dairy calves, lower purchase cost, so less invested for more profit at sale time.
We have Dairy Beef classes, so those calves and big steers are not against the beef breed 
calves or steers.  Another local Fair has NO calf classes at all, just big Beef, dairy and meat
breed classes.  This is where reading your LOCAL rules pays off.  4-H has GENERAL rules
of how to show, presenting the animal, but the local folks write specific things you have
to learn to be competitive.

Locally, the big beef animals have all been ear tagged for August 2012 Fairs already.  Can't
still get in at this late date.  Calves get tagged later, many not born yet, so they are not 
too big for the weigh-in at Fair.  You may want to check that tagging date out, could be 
too late for you to do big beef this year.  But you might be still able to do a calf!  I called
a couple local Dairy farms to locate our calves, they were very helpful, big 4-H supporters!
The calf was WELL started, very bright and perky at 7 days, we never had any issues with him at all.


If you want to show at the State level, or in Breed shows, you will need the more expensive
beef animal to be able to compete.  They are NOT cheap, and you won't find them in those 
local livestock sales.  The plan with them is to win GRAND CHAMPION and so you do still make
a profit after taking out your large calf cost, feed costs to get that weight on him.


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