# Pygmy Questions- *update, got the goat!*



## dwbonfire (Dec 6, 2011)

i have the opportunity to trade for a young pygmy doe. i was told she has kidded before, but thats all i know. the owner said she is very friendly and walks on a leash. i have never had goats before, just sheep. i currently have a young jacob ewe and this goat will be companion to her. my real plans are to breed both - if i can find males to 'rent' of course.
with the goat im thinking ahead that i could milk her and use the milk for my pigs that i am going to be raising. im trying to have an opperation where everything works hand in hand and that some of my animals feed the others who eventually feed me. is a pygmy goat a good choice for what i want to do? i would prefer a small size and not to have an overload of milk because it will only be going to the pigs or to making things - the bf has already said he will not drink it so thats not a concern as far as having enough milk to provide for us.
what are some important things to know about the breed?
what questions should i ask beforehand?

also, i do have one pic that her owner sent to me. she has a 'beard' which i thought only billy goats had? is this something pygmies have?

thanks for any info/answers you can give me!


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## elevan (Dec 6, 2011)

http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-pymgy-goat

You'll get 1-3 quarts of milk per day from a pygmy doe...with 1-1.5 being the most common.

Does have beards too.

Ask about health history.  CAE, CL, Johnes testing and results.  Worm / coccidia problems that they may have had.
Ask if they've milked her...if not then you'll have some training to do.


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## dwbonfire (Dec 7, 2011)

thanks elevan.
i have no idea what CAE, CL and Johnes is, but i will certainly ask and do some reading about it.
i will ask about the milking too and im hoping where shes friendly and still young that i can train her easy enough.


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## Chickie2378 (Dec 7, 2011)

beard is not 'boy' exclusive.


but as cool as this sounds, do you really want it?



what are you trading to acquire this pygmy?


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## dwbonfire (Dec 7, 2011)

im trading my jacob wether, i really have no room for him, hes very big compared to the ewe i have. i'd like either another ewe or a doe because i'd like to have some milk so i can feed it to the pigs im raising. plus my ewe needs a companion if i rehome my wether. i suppose if i didnt get the doe my ewe could be companion with my heifer calf?


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## secuono (Dec 7, 2011)

What do you do with the baby if you take so much milk from mom? Kill the baby, like they do with cows???


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## ksalvagno (Dec 7, 2011)

A small goat will probably not be enough milk to feed your pigs. I would think 2 or 3 would do the job and then just dry them up when you don't need to feed the pigs anymore.


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## dwbonfire (Dec 7, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> What do you do with the baby if you take so much milk from mom? Kill the baby, like they do with cows???


no way, i wouldnt kill the baby.

to be honest this is all a learning process for me. i have never done any of this before, so im not even quite sure how all this milking stuff goes. from what i think i know, you either bottle feed the babies or wait til they can be weaned and then keep the momas milking? correct me if im wrong. i know i sound like im going into this not knowing what im doing, and your kind of right but i figured this is an opportunity for me to trade for the doe and until next year comes along i have plenty of time to do my homework and learn how to do it. i dont have the money to go out and buy good milking goats, or any goats really. bf has me on a bit of a leash when it comes to purchasing animals so this is why trading is a good option for me. i figure if im feeding my wether who i cant house properly for his size, nor do i have much use for him i can trade him for a doe that i can possibly get some use out of, and my wether will have a good home.
i dont mean to sound cold but im to the point where i would like to have my animals and be getting something back from them too. i love them all as pets but feed bills keep rising and i'd like to lighten the load of "free loaders" and hope to have everything working hand in hand. maybe down the line i could get another doe to help with producing enough milk for the pigs, but i only plan to have 2 or 3 pigs at a time and just figure the milk will be a good supplement that i dont have to buy from the stores.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 7, 2011)

Probably in your situation, it would be easiest to time everything so that you get pigs when kids are weaned. Then all the milk can go to the pigs and kids will be done. If you choose to bottle feed, make sure you have the time and commitment to do it. Many people do bottle feed but they still need that colostrum from mom. Then when kids are weaned, you just keep milking mom.


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## currycomb (Dec 7, 2011)

you could also sell the wether, buy a bigger goat. it is very hard to milk the tiny teats on a pigmy goat. a larger goat is much eaisier on the body. you will need a stand for any goat to stand on while milking. and then again there is the training the goat to be milked. it is amazing what they can do when you reach for the udder: barnie


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## elevan (Dec 7, 2011)

Ease of milking a pygmy depends on their teat size and your hand size.  You do need a milk stand because there's no way that you're gonna milk them on the ground.

Trading your wethered sheep for a pygmy doe would be a fair trade imo.

You can begin milking at 8 wks when the kids are weaned.

Pygmies are not just show and pet goats.  They are good small meat and milk producers for small families.  Y'all know that I'm a huge proponent for them and my herd primarily consists of them.


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## dwbonfire (Dec 7, 2011)

currycomb- ideally i would sell the wether and buy a bigger goat but no one seems to be too interested in buying him, and being a wether hes not going to bring too much $ and it seems as though certain dairy goats are quite pricey. i figure i should jump on the chance to trade for a doe because i wouldnt be able to buy one.

elevan- do your pygmies seem to be hardy? i had mentioned in small talk that i may be getting a goat to a girl who works for my vet and she kind of suggested against it. she said goats are really fragile and it seems as soon as you realize they are sick they just die. she also said it seems like they are hard to treat for illnesses and whatnot and they usually end up dying. i was told they are more fragile than sheep are by another person too. some people have said they have goats just literally drop dead on them. this makes me nervous, but i guess what im hoping to hear is that its uncommon and that pygmies are more hardy than others?

thanks to everyone for your suggestions and answers


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## elevan (Dec 7, 2011)

dwbonfire said:
			
		

> elevan- do your pygmies seem to be hardy? i had mentioned in small talk that i may be getting a goat to a girl who works for my vet and she kind of suggested against it. she said goats are really fragile and it seems as soon as you realize they are sick they just die. she also said it seems like they are hard to treat for illnesses and whatnot and they usually end up dying. i was told they are more fragile than sheep are by another person too. some people have said they have goats just literally drop dead on them. this makes me nervous, but i guess what im hoping to hear is that its uncommon and that pygmies are more hardy than others?
> 
> thanks to everyone for your suggestions and answers


Hope that I don't offend anyone here but those comments about goats sound like they came from someone who made no effort at care.

My pygmies are VERY hardy.  It's one of the things that I love about them.  They do need some basic care...good loose minerals for goats that contain copper, so you may need to get create to keep your sheep out of them.  Either that you you may want to do a copper bolus 2x a year.  Deworming as needed.

My goats are on pasture most of the year and I rarely feed grain.  In fact I just had my hay for the winter delivered today and it's their first day with hay.

As with any animal though it is not without risk.  Talk to the person who has the pygmy for trade about her health history...her history will tell you a lot.  If she doesn't need constant deworming or medicating in some way then it shows to her hardiness.  In general pygmies are easy keepers imo...easy to feed...easy to care for...easy to kid and easy to enjoy.


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## dwbonfire (Dec 8, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> dwbonfire said:
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> 
> ...


having worked for a vet myself, im thinking most of the time she hears of goats is when someone calls in with them sick.. so that might make her think they are always sick.
where she will be in with my sheep i thought i could feed her the same grain my sheep get. i have them on an all stock pellet that is safe for multi species, and has no copper. ill have to rethink that plan if copper is truly necessary (sp? its late..) for her to have. what is a copper bolus? never heard of that before..

what is a good worming schedule for me to keep her on? what wormer should i use?

as of now i am waiting to hear back when we will make the swap. i havent gotten the answers about if shes been milked or not, but i dont think that will stop me anyhow so if i have to work with her then ill do my best! as far as a milking stand goes, is that something i could make myself? im pretty handy so i'd just need some pics and measurments for one. i guess ill try googling it!


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## elevan (Dec 8, 2011)

dwbonfire said:
			
		

> where she will be in with my sheep i thought i could feed her the same grain my sheep get. i have them on an all stock pellet that is safe for multi species, and has no copper. ill have to rethink that plan if copper is truly necessary (sp? its late..) for her to have. what is a copper bolus? never heard of that before..
> 
> what is a good worming schedule for me to keep her on? what wormer should i use?
> 
> as of now i am waiting to hear back when we will make the swap. i havent gotten the answers about if shes been milked or not, but i dont think that will stop me anyhow so if i have to work with her then ill do my best! as far as a milking stand goes, is that something i could make myself? im pretty handy so i'd just need some pics and measurments for one. i guess ill try googling it!


Goats do need copper.  

On copper bolusing:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-copasure

On deworming:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-parasite-mgmt   (I do not recommend scheduled deworming)

On milk stands:  http://fiascofarm.com/goats/milkstand.html  (That's just one set of plans...there are many available if you want to google).


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## DKRabbitry (Dec 9, 2011)

I think that sounds like a FAB trade!  

On Pygmies:  My cousin has about 6 pygmies and she had a Nubian wether.  Before I got into dairy goats, I didn't have a clue what they required at all.  My cousin feeds hers crapy hay, doesn't worm regularly and doesn't give them any mineral or supplements.  She gives them a ration of all-stock feed, some corn, pasture and that is IT.  And you know what?  Her pygmies look healthy, act healthy and are great little pets.  I would say they are DEFinitly hardy LOL  The nubian died after a year and a half... he got really sick.  I don't know what exactly happened and I didn't know anything about goats then, sooooo it cold have been lack of proper care, or it could have been pnemonia.  Not sure.  But the pygmies are all doing really well LOL

Other things:  Pygmy goats are meaty little tikes (they were originally bred for this purpose) so there could be another gain from you getting the doe and breeding her.  You can raise any whether kids she might have for your table and sell any doe kids.  Pygmy milk is really rich from what I hear, so your pig(s) would probably adore it.  ANNNND you do NOT have to kill a kid to get milk from the mother.  That is rediculous.  Pygmies aren't dairy goats per se, so I don't know if she would produce enough for you to do this, but what I plan on doing is seperating the kids at night when they are old enough (2-3 weeks), milking the doe in the morning, then putting the kids back on her to nurse during the day.  Also ALSO, from my experience, training a goat to milk isn't all that difficult.  I jumped into this dairy goat deal completely blind, but I am glad I made the leap.  The key is having good mentors.  The breeder I got most of my goats from is nearby and she helps me out a lot.  Then this forum is really helpful.  My first doe had never been milked, and I had never milked a goat, so we learned together   It was really interesting experience and we have a stronger bond than I do with any of the does that came to me trained.  But it could be just her because she is my extra special girl.


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## dwbonfire (Dec 14, 2011)

welllll i got the pygmy goat. shes adorable and soo friendly- to me. she has not been too friendly too my ewe.. she chases her around and rams her, if my ewe moves the goat goes after her, its sad. the ewe stands there crying for me like 'help!' and when i go in she hides behind me. i had to tie the goat (shes used to being tied) most of the day so my ewe wont get beat up. over night i seperated them. i was really hoping this would work out because i got the goat as a companion to the ewe along with my other plans for her. i hate to have to keep them seperated, that really wont work.
today i finally put my ewe in with my heifer calf, they were both affraid of eachother lol. they seem to be doing ok tho.. and as for the goat, she seems very happy to be by herself :/ the woman i got her from told me she was the outcast of her goat herd and she was the one who got beat up. different story here!
any advice on what to do? should this eventually pass? it has only been two days..


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## elevan (Dec 14, 2011)

dwbonfire said:
			
		

> welllll i got the pygmy goat. shes adorable and soo friendly- to me. she has not been too friendly too my ewe.. she chases her around and rams her, if my ewe moves the goat goes after her, its sad. the ewe stands there crying for me like 'help!' and when i go in she hides behind me. i had to tie the goat (shes used to being tied) most of the day so my ewe wont get beat up. over night i seperated them. i was really hoping this would work out because i got the goat as a companion to the ewe along with my other plans for her. i hate to have to keep them seperated, that really wont work.
> today i finally put my ewe in with my heifer calf, they were both affraid of eachother lol. they seem to be doing ok tho.. and as for the goat, she seems very happy to be by herself :/ the woman i got her from told me she was the outcast of her goat herd and she was the one who got beat up. different story here!
> any advice on what to do? should this eventually pass? it has only been two days..


It can take a few weeks for herd dynamics to work themselves out.  I would make sure that they get plenty of supervised time together, but you should be on the outside of the pen so that your ewe cannot hide behind you.

When there are just 2 in the herd (one goat and one sheep) then now this doe feels like she has a fighting chance to be on top where before she was on the bottom of the herd.  Once she realizes that she's at the top and the ewe is below her then they should settle in to be herd mates.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 14, 2011)

Whoever told you that goats are fragile and just die at the drop of a hat doesn't know much about goats.  They are pretty hardy animals IF they receive proper care, which means good feed, good clean hay, clean living conditions and good care.  READ: if they are not neglected.  

Goats have a LOT of personality.  Sometimes that personality includes being a pill at times.   That includes herd dynamics.   Herd dynamics is as elevan pointed out, seems to be what is going on with your ewe and your doe.  It takes a while for goats to settle in and interspecies dynamics may take a little longer.  Hang in there!  They will work it out and things will settle down if you don't try to get in the middle of it.  

Think of them like a couple of eight year olds or better yet a couple of middle school girls.   Snipping and sniping and trying to find where they belong in the barn.  But they only have each other and eventually they WILL figure that out.  Occasionally they will have a breakup over food or a square inch of floor space and then they will kiss and make up again and be BFF for a day or two.


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