# Just got NZ rabbits, couple of questions



## speckled6 (Aug 2, 2017)

Hi all,
I just got NZ rabbits 2 days ago. (First time ever owning rabbits)
I have 5 total, 3 does and 2 bucks.  The only colored ones I have are a broken black doe and a chinchilla colored buck, they are siblings so can't mate them.
One NZ white doe is 4 months and very skittish.  I hope she settles a bit, but I've read NZ whites can be more difficult to work with.
I have 1 more hole open, I'm hoping to find a black doe that's already bred to put there, then I can get more genetic diversity (does this sound like a good idea?)
The lady I bought my rabbits from doesn't breed until 8 months, but I've read conflicting opinions on that.
I got the rabbits for meat, pelts and to sell extras as breeding stock.  I don't want to be breeding in the dead of winter (I live in southern WI), so is it possible/ok to breed at around 5-6 months if they are at 80% mature weight?
Also, she free feeds her rabbits, but I've read other opinions on feeding.
What's the best for meat rabbits?  Is it different if you're keeping them for breeding vs growing them strictly for meat?
I'm so new and while I've read a TON of info, there's so much that conflicts and it is a little jumbled in my head right now.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
jean


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## Bunnylady (Aug 2, 2017)

Welcome to the crazy world of rabbit breeding!

If one of your bucks is chinchilla colored, it sounds like you already have some genetic diversity there - you can't _get_ chinchilla from any combination of New Zealand color genes, so somewhere in the recent family history of your stock, someone has been doing some cross breeding. I'm not clear on this; are you saying that all of your rabbits are littermates, or just the two colored ones?


Free feeding is a good idea on all young, growing rabbits, and does that are nursing. Idle does and bucks that get free fed can get fat; that can get you into real trouble when you try to breed them. I've noticed that some rabbits will self-regulate; there always are a few pellets still in the feeder when I feed the next day. Some (particularly Mini Rex!) are always trying to convince me they are starving, even right after I have fed them.

If there is one thing guaranteed to start a cat fight, it's probably the "right age to breed" thing. I've heard of people starting meat rabbits as young as 4 1/2 months. Sometimes, people try to start them, and find that the rabbits are unwilling, or seem to breed but don't conceive, or the doe seems clueless about caring for her litter . . . . though any of those things can happen with a first-time doe of any age, not just a very young one. I'd think it better to start at 6 months, than to wait until after a year old. . . .


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## animalmom (Aug 2, 2017)

Welcome to the world of rabbits!

Well, as with most animal questions if you ask three folks you'l get five different ways of doing something.

Here is what I've been doing for the past 9 years:

I have Californians which are very similar to NZs and I do not breed before 6 months in order that the does have time to mature and be able to carry a pregnancy to term and deliver healthy kits.  Since I live in Texas I do breed during the winter.  My winters are a far cry from your winters in Wisconsin, which I would suggest you put in your profile as location so folks can tailor their responses to your location (please and thank you).  

As far as I know it really isn't the time of year that you breed that matters but rather the temperature.  High temperatures can temporarily make your bucks sterile.  High temps would be over 85 for an extended time.  Where I am the temperature issue leaves me the later part of fall, winter and the first part of spring to breed.  Now if your rabbitry is indoors and air conditioned to stay around 80 then you can breed whenever you, and the does, want.  My rabbitry is a three-sided barn and not air conditioned so breeding is a hostage to the temperature.

I don't free feed pellets.  My rabbits get 1/2 cup of pellets once a day in the evening.  I do free feed hay.  I will free feed nursing does as that process takes a lot of energy from the does.  Kits are amazing and a lot of fun to watch as they grow.

Pick up and handle your rabbits a lot -- daily, especially the does.  This will help you know your rabbits' bodies and your hands will tell you if someone is getting thin or fat.   You will be moving the does to the bucks for breeding and it is much easier on you if you don't have to fight the doe to move her.  All your rabbits should like seeing you stop in front of his or her cage and come up for rubbing and treats.  A raisin or two is good for a treat as well as a piece of carrot or apple or a tasty dandelion you pulled from the lawn.  If you have fruit trees the trimmings from pruning limbs are good to give so the rabbit can have a gnaw toy.  You don't need salt blocks or salt wheels if you are feeding a good pellet.

Rabbit berries can go straight into your garden.  They are great fertilizer.  

Rabbits are a good livestock to start with as they are quiet, polite, and easy to keep clean.  They will respond to you and as you get to know them individually you will see their personalities.  And, rabbits are tasty.  Congrats in discovering the world of rabbits.

Please, please please do not let anyone intimidate you with a response.  If you don't understand something, or something sounds "off" keep asking the question until you feel you are clear on the question.  

Join the American Rabbit Breeders Association even if you don't show.  Their magazine "Domestic Rabbits" is published every other month, and has some very useful articles on the different breeds, rabbit health and even a recipe each issue.  arba.net


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## Hens and Roos (Aug 2, 2017)

Welcome to rabbits!   I think you received some very good information from @Bunnylady and @animalmom.


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## speckled6 (Aug 2, 2017)

Thanks for the responses!
@Bunnylady - yes, just the 2 colored rabbits are litter mates.  The woman I bought them from said they are purebred, she does tattoo, but the rabbits aren't pedigreed or registered, so can't be 100% sure.  I hear you on opening the can of worms by asking about breeding age.  I was looking for what others have done that's worked for them.  If waiting until 8 Mo's is best, I may look into getting some older rabbits while I wait for the younger ones to get old enough.
@animalmom - I added my general location to my profile, I forgot I didn't put it in there...thanks for the reminder!
The woman I got my rabbits from doesn't feed any of her rabbits hay, just pellets.  I found it odd, since I read hay helps the rabbits in many ways.  They are too young to start on it now, but in another month or so (I think I read 4 Mo's is ok to slowly introduce greens...is hay the same?) I was thinking I could start giving them a couple of pieces to see how they take to it.
For handling, is it better to pick them up for short periods several times a day, or longer periods a few times...or does it matter as long as they're being handled?  They get really antsy quickly right now... would a couple raisins as a treat 1-2 times a day be ok to give them a reward for letting me pick them up?  Is there something else that is better or ok to give?  I want them to associate me with positive things.
@Hens and Roos - hi!  Yes, I got some great responses and I'm so glad to have a place to ask questions!  How are your goats?  How long do you have to wait until Amelia can join the heard?  She's extremely pretty, congrats!!!
Thanks again for the replies, all!  I'm looking forward to more so I can learn more and hopefully gain some experience so I can help answer questions someday too


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## Hens and Roos (Aug 2, 2017)

since we feed hay to all our rabbits- the kits are able to eat it with mom as they start coming out of the nest box.  When we think of greens, we think the fresh greens.  You can slowly introduce the hay just like you would any new food to be on the safe side.

We typically quarantine any new animal for at least 30 days, just to make sure the new animal is healthy and has time to adjust to the new environment.


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## Pastor Dave (Aug 2, 2017)

You already received some good info. I thought I would add my 2 cents.
Hay is dried out and not considered a green. Some folks like to give fresh cuttings and various tops to their rabbits. This has to be done slowly and in moderation. I hardly do any. 

My kits begin eating the dry grass in their nest boxes before coming out. They will nibble the hay when they find Mama's, and her feed pellets too. They will mimic her when she drinks. I prefer hanging bottles to avoid spilling and getting dirty like crock and bowls. I feed abt a cup to 1-1/2c. Of alfalfa pellets a day and free feed grass/timothy hay. My lactating does and grow-outs get free fed the pellets too.

I like to breed my does at 6 months, and my bucks are generally good to go then too. I mainly have NZW, and they are good for meat and commercial hides. The furiers would like the white ones so they can dye them to whatever they prefer. 

A hide is generally too soft and tender, not mature enough at the common ages to butcher at 10-12 weeks. They do best at 10 months and on up, but you have to consider feeding them that long. Instead of a fryer, then you have a roaster. Although, they are not generally tough because they do not run around and get muscular. 

There are supplements I use that you may or at not want to use. Black Oil Sunflower Seeds BOSS are good for G.I. and shiny coats. 1 tsp a day. I also use Calf Manna at 1 tsp a day for everyone other than lactating females which get 1 Tbsp and grow-outs that get 1-2 Tbsp. Unfiltered Apple Cider Vinegar at 1-2 Tbsp per gallon water will help urinary tract and gives some Vitamin A and some others. It also keeps them drinking more because it tastes good to them.

I live just SW of Indianapolis and breed summer and winter, but wait for a day to cool off in the 70's or warm up a little bit in the winter where we commonly hit 40's when not in a deep freeze that usually lasts just a week or two, but not all winter.
If they are due to kindle during a heat wave or cold spell, I take precautions. If I don't at least try to gamble for some litters during those times, I know I won't get any for sure. It's just a preference. Some do other schedules.

Hope this helps some, and feel free to ask for advice. You will get a lot of help and varying opinions, but with experience, comes somewhat mutual advice. It will all generally be within certain parameters


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## speckled6 (Aug 3, 2017)

Thanks again for all the input.  It really helps a lot, the breeding info especially.
So, if hay is dried and not very much like greens, if I got some in the next little while, would I be safe to slowly introduce it and see how they tolerate it?  I'm thinking like a small pinch of pieces, less than 1/4 handful once a day for several days and watch for how they're doing with it.  Then as they get used to it slowly give more.
Does that sound ok?
I read hay gives them something to do b/c they like to pull it out of the hay rack and chew on it, plus the hay helps to push things through the digestive tract, so I feel it's beneficial for them to have it.
I can now get small bags of Timothy hay at my local f&f, but I know a couple people who have square bales of hay I may be able to buy too.  
Again, thanks for the details on what works for you, it gives me an idea of what may work for me too.
jean


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## animalmom (Aug 3, 2017)

Jean, when you introduce your rabbits to raisins be patient as the rabbits will look at you as though you are trying to murder them.  Suspicious little creatures!  Once the rabbit decides to try the raising they will be hooked.  One raisin at their age is plenty.  Stroke the head and do lots of talking to them.  Use their name often as you want the rabbit to come to you when you call them.

Regarding how long and how often to hold your rabbit... I don't think length of time is as important as the rabbit getting use to being picked up and touched all over its body.  Your rabbits need to learn that you can touch them anywhere, can put your hand and arm into their cage any time and it be fine with them.  You would be doing fine if you picked up each rabbit a couple times a day and set it back in its cage when it got figity... you want to have control of the animal a little longer each time.  If your rabbit learns that you'll put it back as soon as it squirms then you are just training the rabbit to squirm.  Make sense?  Eventually, honestly, your rabbits will come to you and push your hand as an indicator the rabbits wants your attention and petting.

How about some pictures of your darlings?  We all love pictures here, right proud picture addicts we are.

Regarding hay... rabbits are notorious hay wasters since they don't have an opposable thumb to pick up the hay once they drop it.  If you are using a hay rack, you can cut the hay into 4" long pieces as that should fit the hay rack and be less mess.  Another thing you can do is use empty toilet paper tubes and stuff the hay inside the tube.  That gives them something to play with while they eat the hay.


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## LocoYokel (Aug 3, 2017)

HI!    Introducing the hay now would be fine.   A bit of advice when buying square bales:  make sure the bale is not full of dust, some hay that is grown by dirt roads can be very dusty where as the bales from the middle of the field aren't.  If you can buy from locals instead of a feed store, it's cheaper and IMO nicer hay.  Just tell them what the hay is for, they will point you at the right bales.  Make sure you have enough hay in the fall to get you thru until next year. (I ran out in May, UNhappy bunz 'round here! )  Keep it dry and out of direct sunlight. I cover mine with a sheet so the barn dust doesn't settle on it.  Never feed moldy/musty hay, mulch that stuff into your garden with the rabbit berries! 
Don't buy alfalfa or alfalfa mix hay.  Your rabbits get that in their pellets along with the added nutrients/vitamins they need.  I have two does that I only give a handful of hay to daily, otherwise they won't eat the pellets. You want them to eat their pellets too. 
My rabbits prefer a mixed orchard grass/timothy hay. first cutting.  First cutting hay is more "stemmy" but it also has more seed heads in it, which the bunz really enjoy.  Second cutting is fine too, and usually easier to stuff into hay racks.  
I use my hay in the racks, in the bottom of nest boxes and every now and then a huge handful for a resting mat on the wire hutch floors.
Best of luck with your new rabbits!


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## speckled6 (Aug 3, 2017)

Ok, pictures were requested, so here they are!



 
This is Buckaroo, chinchilla colored buck.  You can see Bandit in the background, he likes to jump over the 24" wire into Buckaroo's pen... will have to close that up.


 
This is Coraline.  Chose her name because she has a "c" tattooed in her ear, helps me keep them straight.


 
Here's Baby. My daughter named her.  I love her coloring!


 
Mavis.  She has an "m" tattooed in her ear.  She's the only 4 months old, the rest are only 3 Mo's.  She's also the most skittish.


 
And here's a better picture of Bandit.  He's the escape artist who likes to be with Buckaroo... good thing they don't fight, but still plan to fill that opening soon.


 
Here's a pic of the hutch we built.  Turned out decent for a first attempt with no real plan.  We have it 1/2 painted now and are looking at tarps a little away from the side to keep wind and driving rain and snow out of the cages.
Still have to build nest boxes. The hutch is small enough that if the weather is really bad, we can move it into our detached garage...may have to for breeding in winter.
Thanks all for the great advice on the hay.  Now I know what I need!
jean


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## Pastor Dave (Aug 3, 2017)

You will find what @LocoYokel said abt buying hay at feed and ag stores to be true all over the country. Little half bale cubes of alfalfa or timothy are very expensive. You can get a good square bale of alfalfa around my parts for $8-10 and grass hay for $3-5. If I should run out, and it's very doubtful, I have a number of friends/neighbors that I could buy hay from to get me through. Try to make these contacts if you haven't already.


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## animalmom (Aug 4, 2017)

Jean, thanks for the pictures your animals look great!  Your hutch seems well built and good thinking on your part about sizing the hutch so you can easily move it... if needed. 

I'd suggest getting some resting boards for your rabbits.  They will like to be able to get off the wire every so often, and giving them resting boards will help prevent sore hocks from the wire.  You can get them several places.  I like the plastic ones as I put them in a bleach solution when I clean the cages.  Other folks have had good luck giving them a big piece of cardboard to sit on.  It is the pressure of the rabbit's body on the feet on the wire that can cause the sores.  Imaging how you would feel if you had to sit on a 2x4 all day.  What every you do use keep in mind that the rabbits will gnaw on it.

www.bassequipment.com/Store/ShopDetail/RLX/10_X_15_RESTING_BOARD 

   That is just one seller.  Your rabbits will thank you for this.

Something else you could do... brush your rabbits.  Get an animal brush and when you are holding them brush them.  I've never had a rabbit turn up an opportunity to get brushed.  Some would let you brush them naked.

You are so going to enjoy your rabbits!


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## Bunnylady (Aug 5, 2017)

speckled6 said:


> The woman I bought them from said they are purebred



"Purebred" is a relative term. As I said, New Zealands do not come in Chinchilla; it's just not in their gene pool. Since Buckaroo is a Chin, there must be something else in there. It might be one of the Chinchilla breeds, it might even be Flemish Giant (Light Gray Flemish are actually Chinchilla colored). People do out crosses all the time for various reasons; as long as the type is close, most don't worry about it. I only mention this, because you are talking about selling breeding stock, and some folks might get sticky about selling "purebreds" that are a color that a breed can't be.  

It's amazing how persistent genes from an out cross can be. I had a line of pedigreed Harlequins that occasionally threw REW's, because somewhere a few generations back, someone out crossed to a New Zealand to improve type. I jokingly referred to the white ones as "paint-by-number Harlequins." In the interest of full disclosure, I told people that it shouldn't happen, but with this line, it could - whatever else they may have thought of me, they couldn't fault my honesty.

Buckaroo looks like what some call a "ghost Chin:" a really light colored Chinchilla that has one copy of Chin and one of REW. If he is bred to a REW, you'll probably get kits in both REW and Chin, and possibly steeled Chin . You might get what looks like solid Black, too, but the eye color will probably be wrong. Since Baby is Buckaroo's sister, you probably need to watch for wrong eye color on any offspring she has, as well.


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## speckled6 (Aug 8, 2017)

@animalmom - yes, DH (who wants nothing to do with the rabbits ) mentioned building platforms for them to jump up on to.  I think they would have to be easy to remove and clean as you mentioned, but then they may not be stable enough.  Still in the process of thinking it out.  They're fine right now, but I agree they need something to get off the wire now and then.  May need to just put something in there for now.
@Bunnylady - thanks for the insight on that.  Yes, I would definitely be honest with any buyers.  I'm not so much looking to sell a ton of rabbits...if I sell them all I won't have any pelts!  And wherever the chin color came from, I love it and SO want a rabbit fur blanket that color.  So chin babies will be A-ok with me!  It's all really new right now though.  I expect I will get some litters out of these rabbits and then reevaluate.  Even with as much as I read, I still went into this pretty much blind and now the real learning begins!
Thanks again,
jean


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