# Sad occurence for our small Nigerian Dwarf Herd



## foreverblu (Aug 30, 2011)

Today, during broad daylight two wolf hybrid canines attacked my backyard herd.  My Nigerian Dwarf Goats are my pets or extension of my family.  I was deeply saddened that one of my females who was the herd leader was killed.  Her 3 1/2 month old buckling, and two other members of the herd were badly injured.  I just don't know what to do .... my heart is so broken.  These hybrids were wearing collars and tags but I couldn't catch them.  Later I was told I probably shoud have shot them since they will most likely be back to kill again.  I had an emergency vet come out and we gave pain/anti-inflammatories, antibiotics and to the two bucks steroids.  We couldn't give the steroids to the injured doe as she is pregnant and he was sure she would abort and not be in good enough shape to take care of them if they were to make it.  We cleaned the wounds and put spray bandage on them.  They are still very touch and go.  They all recieved muliple bite wounds to the face, neck,and legs. My buck had one of his testicles ripped completely out.  Please keep them in your thoughts, they need all the help they can get.

If any of you have had similar issues could you please share how you dealt with them.  I'm heart broken and at a loss.

Thank you to all


----------



## terrilhb (Aug 30, 2011)

I just want to tell you I am so sorry for this horrific thing that has happened to you and you goats. Sending you hugs.


----------



## Cooperkeeper (Aug 30, 2011)

I am so sorry for your devastating loss.


----------



## WHFarms (Aug 30, 2011)

I vote for the Kill on Sight way of thinking.  You have to protect your babies!  I'm so sorry to hear about this and hope that your babies make it okay.


----------



## Ms. Research (Aug 30, 2011)

So sorry about your loss.  How irresponsible of someone to allow Wolf hybrids to run loose.  I have to agree with the "kill on sight" as well.  You definitely have a right to protect your herd.  

My thoughts on the quick recovery of those poor goats that are injured.  And hopefully you can find the owners who were foolish enough to think a wolf, hybrid or not can run loose in a neighborhood community.   And unfortunately, they will be back.   Make those owners pay for what they allowed their wolf hybrids to do.  Financially for the goats, and the removal of these now vicious dogs.


----------



## Roll farms (Aug 30, 2011)

I am very sorry this happened.  

We have Livestock Guardian Dogs for this very reason....idiots who move out to the country w/ their dogs and don't keep them from wandering. 

I'd probably call the law and do a report, they may (or may not) be able to help, but you'll be on record as having a problem in the past and it will help cover your bum if you do end up shooting them.  May also help you to be reimbursed for the vet bills if the owners are found.

They will probably be back if they get out again.

We shot one neighbor's dog years ago, before we got the LGD's.  Our llama was trying to protect them but couldn't be everywhere at once and we nearly lost our old sheep, she wasn't with the goat herd and the dog went after her.  He hated to do it (it's the OWNERS FAULT, the dogs are just doing what is in their nature), but he had to.

My dh called the sheriff 'on himself' and the dog's tracks / bloody trail as it ran off clearly showed it was in our pasture and he did it to protect our livestock.

Has the vet given you antibiotics to administer for a while?  I'd be worried about infection.  
Keeping them penned in the cleanest area possible, w/ NO stress, is the best thing you can do for them until they recover.  I hope they do.


----------



## foreverblu (Aug 30, 2011)

Thank you all for your kind words and well wishes, it really means a lot to me.  Like I said before, these babies are an extension of my family. 

    It has always been difficult for me to kill an animal of any sort, especially when some unresponsible person is to blame for the whole thing.  Unfortunately I can see that to protect my herd from further attack  and harm I may have to do what comes so hard for me .... to kill another animal doing what it would do in nature.  That saddens my heart as well, but not more than the thought of allowing anymore harm or devestation to come to my herd.  My 3 1/2 month old is still looking for mom.  I think the reason she is dead is she woud have been the one to fight to the end to save her baby and the herd.  She was the greatest mother and she will be deeply missed.  Tomorrow I am going to attempt to track down the savage canines that took her life and the owners who are responsble for them.


----------



## rascal (Aug 30, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I'd probably call the law and do a report, they may (or may not) be able to help, but you'll be on record as having a problem in the past and it will help cover your bum if you do end up shooting them.  May also help you to be reimbursed for the vet bills if the owners are found.
> 
> They will probably be back if they get out again.


X2
Get a .22 and keep it handy. Find out what your laws are in the area and see if there have been other reports against the dogs (or any dog for that matter).  Very worse case mention your concern for kids (yours or neighborhood) if the dogs are loose and such.  That might get you some help too... 

Best of luck and keep us posted on your babies!


----------



## foreverblu (Aug 30, 2011)

Thank you Roll Farms Herd Master,

I did contact the sheriffs department and made a report and they will have animal control out looking for them first thing tomorrow.  The goats have been moved to a clean, safe environment to heal on my tiled screened in back patio.  This way they are with me at the house and I am able to watch them closely.  They were given LA200 which I will be following up with in three days.  The wounds are shaved down, scrubbed with betadine rinsed thoroughly and the sprayed with liquid bandage.  I am now looking into getting a guardian dog for them being that I doubt this would have occured if I had a couple of bonded great pyrenes to watch over them.  

What breeds of dog do any of you recommend?


----------



## jodief100 (Aug 30, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear about this.    My heart goes out to you and your family.  I can only repeat the advice given, be prepared to shoot the offenders and get a Livestock Guardian.  We have Great Pyrs and have not ever had trouble.  We do not deal with wolf hybrids though.  I am not certain Snowey and Jack would be able to handle that.  The domestic/wild crosses are the most agressive animals I have seen.  I had a very agressive cyotye a few years back and when the game warden came out to take the body away he said it was a coy-dog.  I feel horrible killing an animal that was only doing what is it it's nature but those wolf-dogs are dangerous.  They will be back.  

I recomend something bigger than a .22, if you can handle it.  Use the biggest gun you can shoot acurrately.


----------



## Roll farms (Aug 30, 2011)

There's a livestock guardian animal section here where you can do some research.  Everyone w/ different breeds tout theirs as 'the best' (same as with goats) so you'll need to research their dispositions and get what will work best for your situation.

Try to get adults if possible (puppies can't protect against large predators) or an adult / pup combo and the most important thing to remember is that an LGD pup is a PUPPY...it will play rough and may hurt your goats until it's 18-24 mos. old.   Don't leave them unattended w/ your herd, esp. with goat kids around.

I've read so many sad stories where pups are put in w/ the goats to 'learn' and then at 6 mos. they kill a kid and the whole experience turns sour.

(Seems like a contradiction to get a rough / dangerous animal to protect your goats, but once they're 'grown', they are truly worth their weight in gold!)


----------



## Chicks&Feathers (Aug 30, 2011)

I am very sorry to hear this! I would DEFINATELY shoot on sight as well! Prayers are sent your way to all of you!!!!! Hugs as well!!


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Aug 30, 2011)

I would have my gun ready, and my camera, I would call any number you can think of to report the incidence and to find out who owns the dogs.  I would think even vets offices, spca, game warden may have some information on them.  But I would think they will be back, so get ready to shoot atleast one of them.  

Find out the laws, talk to the game warden. If you can shoot one of them or both, then post a sign and advertisement saying dog/s found, and find the owner, you may be able to get compensation for your enjured animals. Assuming it isn't against the law to shoot htem in the first place. 

The vet must have had some suggestions for you?


----------



## ksalvagno (Aug 30, 2011)

I am very sorry for your loss. One livestock guard dog probably won't be a match for 2 wolf hybrids. I would be shooting them AND getting the LGD for anything in the future.


----------



## elevan (Aug 30, 2011)

I am so sorry that you're going through this  

I agree.  Shoot on sight, get a guardian and make some more phone calls.

You said they had collars and tags.  Who issues tags for your area?  Call them...I bet there aren't many wolf hybrids registered in the area.  Might be a quick way to track them down.

I had a domestic dog kill one of my kids last summer...dog had minor amounts of blood on it from my kid.  If you can track those beasts down today and they still have blood on them you might be able to get the sheriff to take care of the problem for you.


----------



## freemotion (Aug 30, 2011)

I'd sure see what could be done to get info from area vets if those dogs had tags.  How many people in your area likely own two wolf hybrids?  Probably only one.  You may need legal help to get the info from the vet, though, but if you go into the offices in person, you may be able to get the office staff to "slip" and give a name or you may be able to tell by exchanged glances which office likely has the info you are looking for.  Yikes.  It is a one month "cooling off" period to get a gun permit here.  I've chased coyotes with a pitchfork.


----------



## redtailgal (Aug 30, 2011)

1


----------



## Susyr22 (Aug 30, 2011)

Oh my gosh! I am so sorry for your loss! This is so saddening! I would be heartbroken and pissed

 If someone is going to have a wolf hybrid dog they should have locked it up, How irresponsible. I think those dogs should be illegal! 

We have 2 Great Pyrenees and If a dog ever came into the goat pen my Male would have his way with them. He is so gentle but he hates other dogs unless they are small. 
I think two Pyrenees work better than one personally. My female is more alert and always on watch and alerts my male, and he is the one who follows through and runs after whatever may be in the pasture. We have a lot of coyotes and haven't had a problem with them since we've had the Pyrenees.
 I love this breed because they are extremely trustworthy around small animals and children but are aggressive enough when it comes to other animals on their land or by the goats. I looked into Anatolian's before I settled on Pyr's and I didn't choose them because I heard they can be aggressive towards people and children and should be monitored around them. I needed something kind with people at all times!Plus I like the double Pyrenees coat for our harsh Midwestern winters.

Where are you located? I will have pups in November. I'm In northwestern Illinois


----------



## manybirds (Aug 30, 2011)

You know i really and truly do not like dogs. There are SOME good ones but most of them just arn't worth the time and effort and money.


----------



## freemotion (Aug 30, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> LOL at freemotion chasing coyotoes with a pitchfork.  Hubby thought I was savage when I killed a coy-dog with a pitch fork.


Seriously?   Wow!!!  You go, girl!  You are my hero!    I didn't think I had it in me until I saw an imminent threat to my much-loved goats.  Had there not been a fence between us, the coyote would've been a goner.  He didn't turn and leave until I was well within striking range....maybe three feet?  But the four foot fence with electric wire on top prevented me from getting enough force behind my throw and had the fence not been there, I wouldn't have had to throw it.  There was an open gate a few feet away, but I didn't have time to go around or didn't think to.

I discovered this capacity in myself when one of my roosters knocked down a newborn kid right in front of me....had I caught that too, he'd be stew.  He knew it, too, and kept clear.  He was stew later, though, when he went to roost in the coop.  But my dad took care of business for me, as the rage had settled and I could no longer do it.

Hmmm, I guess the cooling-off period for a gun permit is starting to make sense...  

Those dogs gotta go.  It would almost be better not to find the owner if you can stake out your field and SSS.  Even if the owner says they will contain them, it will happen again and they will head straight for where they had hunting/killing success before.  Anyone with a dog knows this to be true, although they will try to deny it...."Not my sweet widdle puppy-wuppies!"


----------



## jodief100 (Aug 30, 2011)

When the coy-dog was threatening my goats, I staked out my hiding place.  He was walking the south edge of the fence in the evening, right along the tree line.  I set up my hidy hole with a 30-06, my bipod and some borrowed night vision goggles.  I was under one of those camo rugs on the ground, branches on my head.  I looked like one of those snipers in the movies.  

I got him right at dusk, 220 yards, one shot clean to the head.  I take my livestock's safety very seriously.  The game warden said that coy-dog had three calf tags in it's stomach.  

Wild-domestic hybrids are very dangerous.  You need to be ready for WHEN not if, WHEN they come back.  My dogs kept the coy-dog on the other side of the fence, but it kept comming back.  I figured it was just a matter of time before he decided to give it a try.


----------



## foreverblu (Aug 30, 2011)

Thank you for the impassioned comments on this site.  I have a friend bringing me a shot gun and a rifle for more fire power.  The hurt of seeing the suffering and losing my sweetheart of a herd leader has me enraged and ready to kill.  I also have minature horses who wouldn't stand a chance against these two.  I have five small dogs that I am afraid to even run free on my 7.5 acres of land.  They stay in the yard, but the two 13 year old shih tzus wouldn't have a chance.  I have a rescued jack russell terrier mix who is a big baby and would roll over if attacked.  I am certain they would kill him.  I have two other rescues that were dumped during a snow storm last year and they are chiweenies (chihauha/dauschand).  They are fast and their only escape would be to get under something low that the wolf/hybrids couldn't get under.   Therefore, everyone is being leashed and taken out for now.

I am fairly certain these are wolf hybrids.  I grew up with almost every dog breed known to man and dogs are a passion of mine.  I have seen wolf hybrids as these were a craze here in Texas for several years.  These were solid white, one had ice blue eyes.  The other was white as well but I was more focused on the larger one.  It seemed more aggressive.  When I got to close they had a growl that was not like any dog I have heard, it was much more like what a wild animal would do.  They would hunch down and begin a low growl.  They weren't afraid of me but did not want to be caught.  If my brain was clear I could have had an easy shot as they allowed me within four to six feet of them.

As for my babies, Shirley the one doe I have left is pregnant with what I believe to be twins.  She is very critical from her neck wounds and the swelling.  She also has a badly injured front leg, that does not appear to be broken but is very stiff and sore.  She has eaten grain from my hand and drank a lot of water.  She doesn't get up and move much, as she is VERY weak.  The buck is able to stand and walk, he ate and drank a little.  Mostly he seems lost without the herd leader and he is still in a shock state.  The baby is doing well, though I found some more laceration that need cleaning.

Again thank you all.  I will be contacting vets to see whom I might find that owns these critters.  I would post picture but am unsure how.  Hugs back to all of you,  yours really helped me in this time of deep sorrow.


----------



## redtailgal (Aug 30, 2011)

T1


----------



## freemotion (Aug 30, 2011)

You need ten posts to put up pictures, which you can get by saying welcome to all the newbie threads!  I hope you are able to take care of business.  White dogs should be an easier target.


----------



## genuck (Aug 30, 2011)

So sorry to hear about your babies. I always worry about dogs coming in and hurting my goats. I have a LGD, but she is young and lazy still. If you don't have chickens I would recommend a pair of Pyres. I had a pyre and a pyre x kom, they were recommended to me by the breeder since we have bears. One to round up the flock, one to engage the threat. Unfortunately the pyre had a taste for chicken and would kill any small critter (she even kept hawks away) so she had to go. The kom I have now does a great job but she is lazy and I've lost almost as many chickens to hawks as I lost to the pyre!

 I hope you find those beasts and the owners, I would want my vet bills and the value of my lost animals covered, along with the 2 hybrids put down. Good luck!


----------



## beerman (Sep 3, 2011)

I used to date a vet and she told me in Illinois it against the law to own a wolf or wolf hybrid. She told me this a few years ago I don't know if the laws have changed or not. I would KOS if you see them again.


----------



## manybirds (Sep 3, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> Those do sound like wolf hybrids.
> 
> If you are fortunate enough to find the owners, please report them if possible (do what you have to do for your herd first)
> 
> ...


u want to know whats worse? i've heard of people going out into the woods and stealing wolf pups to make 'pets' stupid people


----------



## maggies.family (Sep 4, 2011)

Oh dear, I am so sorry to read this.  

We recently had two stray dogs wander onto our property a few weeks ago.  Luckily we were able to get rid of them without incidence.  But I was sadly disappointed with our Animal Control.  They wouldn't come out until the next afternoon to take a statement?????

I hope the sweeties you have left will heal quickly and that you are able to "rid" the critters that did this.


----------



## foreverblu (Sep 4, 2011)

I still have not seen the culprits who attacked my herd.  I have driven down every backroad in the area looking for them.  I stopped and warned my neighbors on each side and checked to see if they knew where they might have come from.  One neighbor was infuriated, and as he has small animals to protect he will shoot on site if they come onto his property which is adjacent to mine.  Two house down there is a veternarian who lives there.  She came down the night of the crisis and is also keeping watch as she has MANY animals on her place.  I even stopped and warned a few goat owners around who did not appear to have an LGD either.  

I just could have never imagined this happening as I always put my babies up well before dark.  In case you have not been following any of the other threads I wanted to update a few things.  After losing the herd leader my beautiful nanny Laverne, we lost Shirley after she put up a valiant fight for three days.  She was pregnant with twins so we lost them as well.  The boys are beginning to bounce back.  Tuff the youngster is so much like his mom.  If you open the door to the house he see's it as a formal invitation.  I have not put them back out to graze unless I am out there to supervise their every move.  When I do take them out for grazing, Bilbo (Dad) is still quite jumpy at every noise.  He has been very traumatized.  I have even moved my miniature horse to the front.  They think this is a grand idea as they can come spy at me through the glass doors  .

One more thing as I found an ad on craiglist about two missing hybrid wolves in the county I live in.   I of course contacted them, but the descriptions didn't match.  I tried to be respectful and nonaggressive in my next email to them, but felt I must explain the dangers of hybrid wolves who are on the loose.  Apparently her two have been missing for a month and a half.  Scary thought.  I explained to her what had happened here, but implored her that if she did find hers to maintain a place for them where they could be contained at all times when not under her direct care.   Obviously she has not written back yet.  

I have been looking into possibly rescuing an LGD as there are several in my area that are local rescues.  What do you think?  I also can't help but to look for more goat babies but want be sure I can keep them safe first.

Thank you my friends.  I really feel a kinship with many of you.


----------



## Ms. Research (Sep 5, 2011)

foreverblu said:
			
		

> I still have not seen the culprits who attacked my herd.  I have driven down every backroad in the area looking for them.  I stopped and warned my neighbors on each side and checked to see if they knew where they might have come from.  One neighbor was infuriated, and as he has small animals to protect he will shoot on site if they come onto his property which is adjacent to mine.  Two house down there is a veternarian who lives there.  She came down the night of the crisis and is also keeping watch as she has MANY animals on her place.  I even stopped and warned a few goat owners around who did not appear to have an LGD either.
> 
> I just could have never imagined this happening as I always put my babies up well before dark.  In case you have not been following any of the other threads I wanted to update a few things.  After losing the herd leader my beautiful nanny Laverne, we lost Shirley after she put up a valiant fight for three days.  She was pregnant with twins so we lost them as well.  The boys are beginning to bounce back.  Tuff the youngster is so much like his mom.  If you open the door to the house he see's it as a formal invitation.  I have not put them back out to graze unless I am out there to supervise their every move.  When I do take them out for grazing, Bilbo (Dad) is still quite jumpy at every noise.  He has been very traumatized.  I have even moved my miniature horse to the front.  They think this is a grand idea as they can come spy at me through the glass doors  .
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear you haven't found the owners or the hybrids.  Congrats on informing your neighbors as well as a few goat owners in the area about the hybrids still on the loose.  The more eyes you have looking, the safer you all can make it for your livestock.  

X2 on what you found out about two MORE hybrids missing.  I just don't understand people.  Wolves are beautiful and should stay in the wild.  But people love to tame the wild.  If they want to tame the wild, get a rabbit.  They are wild creatures that DON'T attack other living animals.   And after you politely informed this person who lost her hybrids what a wolf hybrid is capable of, I doubt you will ever hear from her again.  

Regarding the rescue LGD, I think that would be an excellent idea.  I've read on other threads that it's a good idea to start with an older dog than a pup.    I think it will be an excellent idea to have an LGD.  A little peace of mind for you and hopefully for Bilbo.  

Let us know how it goes.  It's a terrible feeling not feeling safe on your own property.


----------

