# 2 goats - same/different disease(s)?



## lillyahoo (Aug 20, 2022)

So, sadly, I think I know what the outcome of this situation is going to be.  But before I make that final decision, I'd like to throw this out to the forum to see if anyone has suggestions or input.

Background:
A friend of mine texted me from the farmer's market on April 14th to say there were two tiny baby goats (born April 1st & 4th) there that a commercial dairy was trying to give away. Knowing they would likely die in inexperienced hands, I agreed to take them.  When they came, one had extremely swollen knees and shifting lameness, while the other had a wet cough, ears plugged shut with pus and a lump on the end of her nose.

By the end of the second week, I had a vet test the one with swollen knees for CAE and it came back positive.  The next week, I took them both to the university large animal clinic here, which did an extensive eval and diagnosis.  The one with swollen knees had joint ill, coccidiosis and lice, in addition to CAE.  The other had trueperella pyogenes (the lump on her nose and likely also in her sinuses), enterococcus and lice.  We embarked on a course of treatment for all, including penicillin, coccid treatment, ear medicine, etc.  Their issues seemed to resolve, except for the CAE goat remaining intermittently lame.

Current problems:
The CAE goat (brown) has developed a large knot in his left shoulder, and uses that leg sparingly (mostly to hobble to the other side).  He doesn't seem to be in pain, but now his right front foot seems to be growing wrong - his toes are splayed and they seem to be growing sideways (especially the right-most toe).  I trim his feet regularly, but the soles of his feet aren't hitting the ground squarely any more due to the deformation, and he's walking on his heels/pastern too far back.

The trueperella goat (black) has had intermittent bouts of bloat ever since she came.  Those seemed to be getting better until 2 weeks ago, when she had a bad case.  I lifted her front feet, massaged her tummy until she burped several times and have treated her daily with probiotics and B vitamin paste since.  She is eating, drinking, peeing and pooping normally, but she spends most of the day standing in the backwards-leaning position shown in the picture below and not moving around much.  I did vaccinate and boost both of them for CD/T early on, but I haven't had any luck finding CD antitoxin to treat her.  She also seems to be getting a bit lame on her left front leg and her pastern area might be a little swollen.  I'm wondering if maybe she has CAE as well, but she hasn't been tested for it yet.

Any suggestions?  I plan to take them back to the university vet clinic next week, but I'm wondering if there is anything else I can try in the meantime.  Or is the consensus to put them down, which is what I expect the clinic to recommend?  They are very sweet and tame, but I don't want them to suffer.


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## Alaskan (Aug 20, 2022)

I would be highly tempted to put down the CAE positive goat.  Most especially if you have other goats that do NOT have CAE.

just since one has it... doesn't mean both do....  and I have no knowledge as to trueperella.  But bloat must be painful... so sadly yes, if I didn't think the intermittent bloat could be stopped, I would put that one down too.

I am SUPER sorry for both you and the kids.  

Sucks rocks


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## lillyahoo (Aug 20, 2022)

These are my only goats right now, and there aren't any on farms close by.  So there's not much chance of spreading CAE, but I don't think the one who tested positive can be saved.

Doesn't this seem a little young, though, for all his problems to be due to CAE?  Other than his front legs, he is very healthy.


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## Alaskan (Aug 21, 2022)

lillyahoo said:


> These are my only goats right now, and there aren't any on farms close by.  So there's not much change of spreading CAE, but I don't think the one who tested positive can be saved.
> 
> Doesn't this seem a little young, though, for all his problems to be due to CAE?  Other than his front legs, he is very healthy.


From what I understand there are different kinds of CAE, and some are way more problematic/cause more issues than others.

So... with a more virulent CAE, no, not too young for so many issues.


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## lillyahoo (Aug 21, 2022)

Took the black goat (suspected enterotoxemia) to the university large animal clinic this morning, as she was not getting up.  All bloodwork was normal (?) with no elevated white blood cell counts, normal pH, electrolytes & glucose okay, etc.

PCV was 44, though - isn't that a bit high (?). They wanted to keep her overnight on IV fluids, but the cost for that was $1200 on top of the almost $600 I spent for the initial visit.  She is taking electrolyte solution by mouth and still eating hay, so I declined the IV and brought her home.  Their only suggestion was continued electrolytes and some penicillin for what they also think is probably enterotoxemia, but they didn't have any C&D antitoxin available, which was the main reason I took her down in first place.  
:-(

Does anyone have any idea where I can get C&D antitoxin?  I think that's probably her only real hope of clearing this up.


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## Alaskan (Aug 21, 2022)

No idea.  So sorry.  

@farmerjan ??


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## farmerjan (Aug 21, 2022)

This goat stuff is more involved than I am familiar with. Maybe another goat person?   I have no idea on antitoxin availability except for the tetanus that DS uses on the sheep when he castrates the males.... Your local vet?  Go online and so some searches with Jeffers or Hamby goat supply, or Valley Vet?


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## farmerjan (Aug 21, 2022)

I also understand getting attached to an animal, but after many years of "treating hopeless cases" I have learned to be practical.  In my honest opinion, putting them both down and starting with healthy young animals is both less emotionally costly as well as less financially costly.  
If they were calves of mine, they would have been put down already.  Just me.


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## lillyahoo (Aug 22, 2022)

farmerjan said:


> This goat stuff is more involved than I am familiar with. Maybe another goat person?   I have no idea on antitoxin availability except for the tetanus that DS uses on the sheep when he castrates the males.... Your local vet?  Go online and so some searches with Jeffers or Hamby goat supply, or Valley Vet?


Thanks, farmerjan.  I already contacted all of the big vet supply companies (and some of the smaller ones like West Texas Farm Supply), the university vet hospital and most of the vets in this area that still do large animal work (only a handful).

No one has it in stock - Colorado Serum seems to have it backordered 3-6 months everywhere.


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## lillyahoo (Aug 27, 2022)

Someone on Backyard Chickens just tipped me off that Valley Vet has the 250ml bottles of antitoxin in stock.  I've ordered some, but it may be too late at this point. (?)

My goat is still unable to stand - it's like she's paralyzed from the neck down, but she can move all 4 legs and her tail, and she's eating, drinking, peeing and pooping just fine.  I took her to the vet school's large animal clinic ER immediately, but they could find NOTHING wrong.  Her metabolic labs are all fine and reflexes check out okay.  They suggested thiamine injections and penicillin for a week, which I have been doing.  (I'd had her on probiotic paste and B-complex paste for the previous week, though, and they have free access to goat minerals.)  But those don't seem to be working at all.

The guy I saw Sunday was a horse vet, but yesterday I was able to talk to the clinic's goat vet.  I told him I suspected it might be the encephalitic presentation of CAE (since the other goat she came with is positive), but he said he's never seen a case and dismissed the idea.  He prescribed meloxicam, which I started yesterday, but so far there's no change whatsoever from a week ago.  She's happy and eating, but I'm worried that being down so long is going to snowball...


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## Alaskan (Aug 27, 2022)

lillyahoo said:


> Someone on Backyard Chickens just tipped me off that Valley Vet has the 250ml bottles of antitoxin in stock.  I've ordered some, but it may be too late at this point. (?)
> 
> My goat is still unable to stand - it's like she's paralyzed from the neck down, but she can move all 4 legs and her tail, and she's eating, drinking, peeing and pooping just fine.  I took her to the vet school's large animal clinic ER immediately, but they could find NOTHING wrong.  Her metabolic labs are all fine and reflexes check out okay.  They suggested thiamine injections and penicillin for a week, which I have been doing.  (I'd had her on probiotic paste and B-complex paste for the previous week, though, and they have free access to goat minerals.)  But those don't seem to be working at all.
> 
> The guy I saw Sunday was a horse vet, but yesterday I was able to talk to the clinic's goat vet.  I told him I suspected it might be the encephalitic presentation of CAE (since the other goat she came with is positive), but he said he's never seen a case and dismissed the idea.  He prescribed meloxicam, which I started yesterday, but so far there's no change whatsoever from a week ago.  She's happy and eating, but I'm worried that being down so long is going to snowball...


Oh. Good. Grief.

I hate paying good money for a vet visit,  and getting NOTHING useful!!!   


Super sucks, sorry!


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