# Quick question about LGD breeds



## FRED DESANTIS (Mar 19, 2019)

Hi,
I have a quick question about LGD breeds. I have a one year old great Pyrenees female.
She doesn't seem happy here. I think she feels more like a captive than a member of a team. What breed of LGD would be more obedient and loyal. Just wondering.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 19, 2019)

You need to bond with her. You do that by seeing her as a partner.
LGD's are not obedience animals. They think differently and need to. Loyalty is built on trust and relationship. 
This is not a "dog" this is  a partner, talk to her like a partner - an equal. Praise her.
It won't matter what breed you get, if you do not have that ability to connect as a partner and shepherd.

You mention obedient and loyal... what exactly is she doing or not doing that you mention this?
How long have you had her?


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## FRED DESANTIS (Mar 19, 2019)

Hi,
I have had her for six months. I have been through 3 or 4 types of dog food she'll like one for a few weeks then turn her nose up. Most times she comes when called which is good. I need to get her to be able to walk with a leash . I try I even use treats as rewards she's not really interested in learning new things. She needs to be able to go into a crate for the vet. I'll keep trying with love and treats I get the impression from her that she feels more like a captive than a partner. You can kinda tell when a dog is happy and enthusiastic,she doesn't seem to be. My last dog was a yellow lab she was great, eager to learn and very obedient. You could talk to her in a calm voice you could say " don't go up on the road" and she would listen. I think that a dog needs to be obedient for their own safety.I'll keep trying to work with her. I bring her over near the house away from the area where the goats are fenced in. Where we practice walking and heeling she's a nice little dog. I just wish she wasn't unruly and a little happier


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## Southern by choice (Mar 19, 2019)

But LGD's are not pet dogs. They have a very distinct purpose. Their job is a livestock guardian. They must be able to do their job, think quickly and make decisions faster than you can blink your eye. They are not obedience dogs, nor should they be and doing so and trying to make them what they are not is what will cause them to be unhappy and restless. They are not wired for this. 
Whoever you got the dog from should have counseled you on the ways of an LGD.
They are not "dogs" as we think of dogs. *They are a species unto themselves.*

Most LGD's will not be enticed or bribed with treats. They are really better off not doing so. 
Our neighbor tried making friends with our dogs as pups by trying to bribe with treats. He made a permanent enemy of every dog on the farm.... why... because the neighbor bypassed us. The dogs would have accepted him IF he had gone through us.

As a trainer of working dogs that are geared for obedience/protection/schutzhund I would never ever expect my German Shepherds to do my LGD's work just as I would never expect my LGD's to behave like my German Shepherd Dogs. Very different animals, with very different jobs.

Having her walk on a lead, load into a car is easy... but _you_ have to change the way you approach a LGD.
Your LGD will and does sense your displeasure and frustration. 
When you have the trust and respect of the dog they are actually quite willing to please... BUT ... trying to make them into something they were NOT bred for is only going to exacerbate the problems. 

Praise her every day for the wonderful job she is doing. Tell her what a great dog she is. 
Earn the respect of your LGD. They are smarter then we are. 

The dog is not the one being the unwilling partner. I do not say that to be mean, it is simple fact that the shepherd MUST bond and respect the dog. *Pets* are taught to respect you and the person is master. LGD's are not wired as such... you are equal partners. When respect of the LGD is not given they are the most stubborn frustrating dogs in the world! LOL


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## goatgurl (Mar 19, 2019)

hi fred, pretty girl you've got there. first you have to realize that a great pyrenees is not and will never be anything like a lab.  come, sit, stay are all suggestions to a livestock guardian dog not a command.  she will never act like an 'ordinary' dog because she isn't.  she will not play fetch or any of the other things that your lab did. these dogs are not really treat oriented so you have to find something she really, really likes, think chicken or hot dogs or something like that.  I understand the need for leash and crate training but don't make it an all important thing.  they are laid back dogs that really only become alert and active when they persevere a threat.  as far as her not eating well they don't eat a lot for dogs their size.  maybe when you feed her she eats a little but just doesn't want the rest.  if she doesn't do a lot then she won't eat a lot.  go more by her condition than the amount she eats. I had an anatolian that drove me nuts because he didn't eat as much as I thought he should.  as SBC said, you have to make them partners its not a master/dog kinda thing.  does she stay with your goats?  is she happy there?  my LGD's wouldn't come in my house unless I dragged them and it would be a real struggle. they don't want to be in my yard they want to be with their livestock.  does she bark at threats?  do you go out to be her back up and see what she barks at?  do you sit with her and her goats?  these are the things that make a partner.  she has to know she can count on you just like you have to know you can count on her.  I hope you both can work thru the problems youall are having and she becomes the best guardian she can be.  she will be happier if you don't try to make a yard dog out of her.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 19, 2019)

That dog looks like she has some Aussie in the line.  As always SBC is right on and you are not going to have an obedient LGD.  They do or at least try to do what they think needs doing.  I also have herding dogs and with them I expect 100% obedience since if I can't stop the dog when I need to, I can't herd the sheep.

I have one wonderful Great Pyrenees that I would not even think about correcting since she does what she needs to do.  I also have a young Akbash who I have gone through several growling sessions that I definitely would not recommend doing with a 100 pound plus dog unless you really seriously know how to read their body language.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 19, 2019)

Fred, I went back and read your post again and something stood out to me.  You mentioned about the dog coming/or not when called.  How much time do you spend wandering around with her while she is doing her job?  She isn't seeing a partnership here.  I spend hours every day with a new dog just roaming the territory with my dogs.  It doesn't take a lot of that for them to see who is supporting the "job"


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## babsbag (Mar 19, 2019)

When I was a teenager I took an obedience class with my Dalmatian and there was a Great Pyrenees in the class.  He was the only dog in the class that could make my Dalmatian look like she was behaving. I have never seen a more stubborn but incredibly lovable dog. Now that I have LGDs I understand the behavior.  My LGDs know how to walk on a leash and get in the car. That is about the extent of their training.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 19, 2019)

babsbag said:


> When I was a teenager I took an obedience class with my Dalmatian and there was a Great Pyrenees in the class.  He was the only dog in the class that could make my Dalmatian look like she was behaving. I have never seen a more stubborn but incredibly lovable dog. Now that I have LGDs I understand the behavior.  My LGDs know how to walk on a leash and get in the car. That is about the extent of their training.




That is an understatement but pretty much says it all.


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 19, 2019)

SBC is 100% correct! 

Goatgurl also said that commands are a suggestion and she couldn’t be more right!

I’d learned with my first Pyr that you leave them and don’t interact with them. It felt wrong so I loved him. In turn, he loved me! This was his farm and he more than once protected me as well. 

My Anatolian was an amazing girl! She was a heart dog and I miss her daily. DH would get so frustrated when she wouldn’t “listen.” I trusted her and she was protecting us from things we couldn’t see and/or hear. I’ve learned so much from SBC about these amazing dogs. I’ll have another or ten! Just have to get the timing right. 

I will say that all of mine enjoyed attention. They could care less about treats. They thrived on physical affection. I spent time every day hugging on them and I’d sit with them flopped down in my lap. They love to be scratched right above their tail and between their front legs. You can win her over! 

I will say that she may need a partner BUT she needs that connection with you first. Removing her from her animals is stressful for her. I know some vets do farm calls so that LGDs don’t even have to leave the farm at all. 

Please keep us posted.


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## Baymule (Mar 19, 2019)

100% what SBC said. You said something that gave me pause. You want her to go in a crate for a trip to the vet. These are not crate dogs. A crate would be a terrible insult. I have a 9 month old black Lab/Great Dane cross and he goes in a crate, it is his comfort spot. Someday he won't need it anymore, but for now he does. Putting a LGD in a crate would not bring the desired effect, it would hurt her feelings. When I take my dogs to the vet, they ride in the back seat. I put a blanket on the seat, it usually winds up in the floor, dog hair floats on the AC breeze and they drool. They are happy. 

The best thing you could do is read this forum. Read the posts on the LGD forum, there is lots of information there. 

These dogs are incredible animals. They work without supervision. They think for themselves, they really don't need us, and yet, they do. 

Goatgurl touched on barking. When your dog is barking, she sees, hears or smells SOMETHING. Maybe you don't see, hear or smell anything, but to her, SOMETHING is there. Go to her, talk to her, praise her, tell her thank you for doing your job. Let her know that you are there for her. Our female GP barks at night because there is SOMETHING out there. It turned out a couple of years ago that a couple of doe deer stashed their fawns in the horse pasture that is heavily wooded. The does had the audacity to walk mere feet from the fence dividing the horse pasture from Paris Land. She barked at them. All. Night. I found their tracks, proof that Paris was on the job, protecting her sheep from deer monsters. I started going outside, sitting with her, praising her and telling her she was a good dog. It quieted her down-a little. She sure hated those deer!

Because we love that happy, adoring dog love, most of us, if not all of us also have house or farm dogs. We want that obedient dog that waits for us to command them to do something so they can show us how much they love us. And we love them madly for it. 

LGDs love us, on their terms. LGDs love their work, they love their goats or sheep. 

You need to "feel" your dog. It may sound silly, but instead of you wanting her to obey and mind you, you need to let it go and just let her into your heart. Sit in her work area, go walking with her, let her show you what she does. Praise her at every opportunity. If you think you are frustrated with her, think how frustrated she must be with you. 

I hope you realize that we are trying to not only help you, but help your dog.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 19, 2019)

Baymule said:


> LGDs love us, on their terms. LGDs love their work, they love their goats or sheep.
> 
> You need to "feel" your dog. It may sound silly, but instead of you wanting her to obey and mind you, you need to let it go and just let her into your heart. Sit in her work area, go walking with her, let her show you what she does. Praise her at every opportunity. If you think you are frustrated with her, think how frustrated she must be with you.
> 
> I hope you realize that we are trying to not only help you, but help your dog.



Of all of the posts, that one bears repeating.  The key being to help your dog


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## B&B Happy goats (Mar 20, 2019)

Hello Fred, having just adopted our dear LATESTARTERS  Mel, I can attest to the posts above...we have two dogs....and we have a independent amazing  creature  named Mel....he is nonthing like a dog, spend time ...as much as you can daily with her walking your property, and with the goats ....when she barks...go listen and tell her good girl and pat and praise her...
Mel weighs 132 lbs, in our short time together we are forming a trust and bond....if you watch her, listen to her and  praise her....she will become your heart and protector....she will show you the way, be her partner.... if i can do this with a four year old ,who has just had his world turned upside down, then have him nutered within two weeks, ....then your young girl will be amazing. You got the best advice above you could possibly  get on the preceding  posts.....enjoy your girl and good luck ,


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## FRED DESANTIS (Mar 20, 2019)

Hi,
Thank you for taking the time to write such a great response. She does come when called seventy percent of the time. Sometimes I put her on a very long lead and we walk the whole property. When she has gotten out she came back on her own accord.  I spend time with her and the goats and she does seem happier staying with the goats than being in the yard by the house. You have given me a lot to think about and I will be changing my approach.
Thanks again
Fred



Southern by choice said:


> But LGD's are not pet dogs. They have a very distinct purpose. Their job is a livestock guardian. They must be able to do their job, think quickly and make decisions faster than you can blink your eye. They are not obedience dogs, nor should they be and doing so and trying to make them what they are not is what will cause them to be unhappy and restless. They are not wired for this.
> Whoever you got the dog from should have counseled you on the ways of an LGD.
> They are not "dogs" as we think of dogs. *They are a species unto themselves.*
> 
> ...


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## B&B Happy goats (Mar 20, 2019)

Mel comes seventy percent of the time also...they ARE independent  creatures for sure, lol....and i have found that  Mel enjoys walking with me on the fence lines ( unleashed)  he seems to feel my trust in him when I do that three times a day....telling him what a good boy he is, and this is your area to protect...good luck Fred...the reward is well worth the effort


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## FRED DESANTIS (Mar 20, 2019)

Hi Baymule,
The reason the whole crate thing came up is because the Texas coalition for the protection of animals has offered to give the dog all of it's shots and vaccinations along with spaying her for 100.00.You drop her off between 8 and 9 am and pick her up at three the ask that the dogs be crated because their facilities do not have a lot of cage capacity otherwise I would not even own a crate. Sometimes at night when she is barking I will go out and give her a bone and ask her what she's barking at.




Baymule said:


> 100% what SBC said. You said something that gave me pause. You want her to go in a crate for a trip to the vet. These are not crate dogs. A crate would be a terrible insult. I have a 9 month old black Lab/Great Dane cross and he goes in a crate, it is his comfort spot. Someday he won't need it anymore, but for now he does. Putting a LGD in a crate would not bring the desired effect, it would hurt her feelings. When I take my dogs to the vet, they ride in the back seat. I put a blanket on the seat, it usually winds up in the floor, dog hair floats on the AC breeze and they drool. They are happy.
> 
> The best thing you could do is read this forum. Read the posts on the LGD forum, there is lots of information there.
> 
> ...





Baymule said:


> 100% what SBC said. You said something that gave me pause. You want her to go in a crate for a trip to the vet. These are not crate dogs. A crate would be a terrible insult. I have a 9 month old black Lab/Great Dane cross and he goes in a crate, it is his comfort spot. Someday he won't need it anymore, but for now he does. Putting a LGD in a crate would not bring the desired effect, it would hurt her feelings. When I take my dogs to the vet, they ride in the back seat. I put a blanket on the seat, it usually winds up in the floor, dog hair floats on the AC breeze and they drool. They are happy.
> 
> The best thing you could do is read this forum. Read the posts on the LGD forum, there is lots of information there.
> 
> ...


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## FRED DESANTIS (Mar 20, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> Fred, I went back and read your post again and something stood out to me.  You mentioned about the dog coming/or not when called.  How much time do you spend wandering around with her while she is doing her job?  She isn't seeing a partnership here.  I spend hours every day with a new dog just roaming the territory with my dogs.  It doesn't take a lot of that for them to see who is supporting the "job"




Hi Mike,
I was wondering when you spend hours a day roaming the territory is your dog on a lead, I would be afraid she may run off and get hit by a car I live out in the country but there is some traffic.
I have five and a half acres sometimes I will put her on a 20' lead and we will walk all over the property. she comes when she's called about 70 per cent of the time I can live with that.The reason the whole crate thing came up is because the Texas coalition for the protection of animals has offered to give the dog all of it's shots and vaccinations along with spaying her for 100.00.You drop her off between 8 and 9 am and pick her up at three the ask that the dogs be crated because their facilities do not have a lot of cage capacity otherwise I would not even own a crate. Sometimes at night when she is barking I will go out and give her a bone and ask her what she's barking at.


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## FRED DESANTIS (Mar 20, 2019)

Wehner Homestead said:


> SBC is 100% correct!
> 
> Goatgurl also said that commands are a suggestion and she couldn’t be more right!
> 
> ...


She does love those belly rubs  I will go out after dinner to pick up her dish and she will roll right over on her back for a good belly rub and scratching she gets a lot of love. I am not indifferent to her.Thanks for all of your suggestions and comments.


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## FRED DESANTIS (Mar 20, 2019)

goatgurl said:


> hi fred, pretty girl you've got there. first you have to realize that a great pyrenees is not and will never be anything like a lab.  come, sit, stay are all suggestions to a livestock guardian dog not a command.  she will never act like an 'ordinary' dog because she isn't.  she will not play fetch or any of the other things that your lab did. these dogs are not really treat oriented so you have to find something she really, really likes, think chicken or hot dogs or something like that.  I understand the need for leash and crate training but don't make it an all important thing.  they are laid back dogs that really only become alert and active when they persevere a threat.  as far as her not eating well they don't eat a lot for dogs their size.  maybe when you feed her she eats a little but just doesn't want the rest.  if she doesn't do a lot then she won't eat a lot.  go more by her condition than the amount she eats. I had an anatolian that drove me nuts because he didn't eat as much as I thought he should.  as SBC said, you have to make them partners its not a master/dog kinda thing.  does she stay with your goats?  is she happy there?  my LGD's wouldn't come in my house unless I dragged them and it would be a real struggle. they don't want to be in my yard they want to be with their livestock.  does she bark at threats?  do you go out to be her back up and see what she barks at?  do you sit with her and her goats?  these are the things that make a partner.  she has to know she can count on you just like you have to know you can count on her.  I hope you both can work thru the problems youall are having and she becomes the best guardian she can be.  she will be happier if you don't try to make a yard dog out of her.


Hi Goatgurl,
Thanks for all the good advice. I didn't realise they don't eat a lot for their size I thought she just didn't like the food. She does seem to like being with the goats as opposed to being in the yard by the house I just figured she might like a break from being with the goats all the time so I brought her over to the house yard for awhile. thanks again.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 20, 2019)

I have them on lead when I walk them out of the pastures but never use leads inside the paddocks.  I get you on the crate situation and sometime you have to do less than ideal things.


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 20, 2019)

FRED DESANTIS said:


> She does love those belly rubs  I will go out after dinner to pick up her dish and she will roll right over on her back for a good belly rub and scratching she gets a lot of love. I am not indifferent to her.Thanks for all of your suggestions and comments.



I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to make you feel that way. You wouldn’t have posted if you didn’t want to make it work. I admitted that I’ve learned a lot along the way, as I’m sure you are too. 

@Southern by choice I’ve had a thought...is it possible that she’s not getting a chance to rest and does need a partner? I don’t want to recommend this outright without your input...


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## Mike CHS (Mar 20, 2019)

We don't always  succeed.  Our Akbash has been a training issue almost non-stop since we got her.  We have gone backward a bit then she seems perfectly fine for a couple of weeks.  She did a major no-no today. For absolutely no reason, he went after Ringo then switched to one our registered ewes then went after Maisy. The major no-no was when Teresa went in to call him off and he lunged at her.  In the past I have always been able to call him off but he is doing too much damage.  So Fred you aren't the only one that has ups and downs. 

I may try to rehome him but it can't be as an LGD and I wouldn't trust him around kids either since I have no idea what sets him off.


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## Goat Whisperer (Mar 20, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> The major no-no was when Teresa went in to call him off and he lunged at her.


I don’t know the full story so don’t want to jump to anything…but euthanasia would be a consideration here  That is scary.


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## Baymule (Mar 20, 2019)

FRED DESANTIS said:


> Hi Baymule,
> The reason the whole crate thing came up is because the Texas coalition for the protection of animals has offered to give the dog all of it's shots and vaccinations along with spaying her for 100.00.You drop her off between 8 and 9 am and pick her up at three the ask that the dogs be crated because their facilities do not have a lot of cage capacity otherwise I would not even own a crate. Sometimes at night when she is barking I will go out and give her a bone and ask her what she's barking at.


Now that you have explained it, I understand.


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## frustratedearthmother (Mar 20, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> when Teresa went in to call him off and he lunged at her.


That is scary.  Cowboy is a grumbler and a back-talker at times.  When he goes after Maddie and then I go after him - he will back off but he has offered a few growls as he's walking away...


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## Mike CHS (Mar 20, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> I don’t know the full story so don’t want to jump to anything…but euthanasia would be a consideration here  That is scary.



That is what is going to happen.  I just wanted to pass on to Fred that sometimes all the training in the world may not work on all dogs.


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## Baymule (Mar 20, 2019)

Oh Mike, not Thor. I am sorry that this has come to pass. It could be a result of some not so desirable genetics. Have you let his breeder know and have any of the other dogs in that litter gone off the deep end? I know it’s not because of his treatment. 

Going after Ringo was bad, going after a registered ewe was worse. Going after Maisy and Teresa is unforgivable.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 20, 2019)

I know the farm he came from and they have some of the best Akbash in the state.  They only selectively breed and not often.  I've seen this coming for some time now which is why we kept going backward in his training.  It's like a switch goes off and especially in the last couple of days, it's completely out of control.  All of the "going after" this afternoon was in the span of about 90 seconds and no idea what triggered it.  At this point, it's a done deal since now my girl is afraid of him.


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## babsbag (Mar 20, 2019)

@Mike CHS, that is sad...I had to put down an LGD one time for similar behavior, only mine was an adult. He started growling at me when he was sleeping in his spot under the barn, then he attacked my Boer buck, and then he growled at me when I tried to remove him from my buck. They are big powerful dogs and that behavior is just too dangerous. But boy or boy is it hard to make that decision. My heart is heavy for you.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 20, 2019)

Thanks babs.  I have put it off as long as I can.


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## Baymule (Mar 20, 2019)




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## B&B Happy goats (Mar 20, 2019)




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## Mike CHS (Mar 20, 2019)

I'm not sure how the tangent helped Fred though.  Sorry about the hijack Fred.


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## frustratedearthmother (Mar 20, 2019)

So very sorry. I know you have put a lot of time and love into Thor and to have it end up this way is heartbreaking.  But, it's understandable because you just can't take that chance...


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## FRED DESANTIS (Mar 20, 2019)

Mike CHS said:


> I'm not sure how the tangent helped Fred though.  Sorry about the hijack Fred.


No worries Mike, like you said we all have our problems to deal with at least now I have a different perspective.


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 21, 2019)

So sorry @Mike CHS!! I know that you wouldn’t take this decision lightly but that it has become necessary. to you and Theresa both!


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## FRED DESANTIS (Mar 21, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Hello Fred, having just adopted our dear LATESTARTERS  Mel, I can attest to the posts above...we have two dogs....and we have a independent amazing  creature  named Mel....he is nonthing like a dog, spend time ...as much as you can daily with her walking your property, and with the goats ....when she barks...go listen and tell her good girl and pat and praise her...
> Mel weighs 132 lbs, in our short time together we are forming a trust and bond....if you watch her, listen to her and  praise her....she will become your heart and protector....she will show you the way, be her partner.... if i can do this with a four year old ,who has just had his world turned upside down, then have him nutered within two weeks, ....then your young girl will be amazing. You got the best advice above you could possibly  get on the preceding  posts.....enjoy your girl and good luck ,


Thanks B&B,
I think things will work out fine. Sometimes I get a little frustrated. Today she suprised me she just laid there all calm as I trimmed her toe nails.


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## Baymule (Mar 21, 2019)

Fred, don't you worry, she will have trained in no time!


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## Stephine (Mar 25, 2019)

I really enjoy reading about the LGD personality. It reminds me of our beardie we had when I was a kid. She would not react to commands in a stern voice. You had to be nice for her to listen. When you called her to come to you on a walk she would always check to see what the problem/reason was, and then decide if that was a reasonable request... Beardies are shepherds, but they were bred to go out by themselves and find the sheep out in the bushes somewhere and bring them back - all without any person guiding them (the opposite of a border collie). I think the more independent a dog can work, the better they are able to make their own decisions, the less they are willing to obey. Makes complete sense, doesn’t it?


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## Ridgetop (Apr 6, 2019)

Mike:    What a shame for that bad experience.  You made the right experience.  Dogs have physical ailments like people.  He could have had a stroke or mental problem so you did the right thing.  it is always sad for the humans involved but the safety of our families is paramount.  You did what you could as long as you could.  

Fred:     LGDs are not obedience dogs, they are employees, partners, soldiers.  If I did not have sheep needing protection, I would not own one as a household pet or yard dog no matter how much I love these dogs.  When I want a household and family protection dog, I will choose a breed that can be properly obedience trained.  I have trained many dogs over the years, these LGDs are not obedience breeds.  Sometimes I don't think they are completely dogs at all. 

Do not expect behavior from the LGD that their several thousand years of selective breeding has removed from them.  They have been bred to instinctively behave in certain ways, and think for themselves.  Slavish obedience to commands is not one of these ways.  If they believe there is danger, they will not come to your command, even when it is dinner time.  Our dogs have stayed out on the field at suppertime if there is a heavy threat level.   We have to take their dinner to them, and even then they don't dig in, instead they grab a bite or two then check out things before taking another bite or two.

Having said that, I am devoted to my 3 Anatolian LGDs.  They protect the sheep, my property and my family.  They adore my grandchildren.  However, once started in protection mode, you cannot call them back from their job.  These dogs are not pets, they are partners in protecting our livestock.  They love to be petted and cuddled, but they are partners with jobs.

Often the only way you will know whether your dogs are working is if you have lost any livestock.  If the answer is no, then they are doing their job.  An LGD does not hunt down and destroy predators.  That is what trained hunting hound packs and guns are for.  An LGD lives with his/her charges and prevents predators from killing or molesting them.  They do this by marking their territory, announcing that they are on guard in deep voices and keeping their presence visible.  A pair of LGDs (or more) will often split the duties between themselves.  This is something they do themselves, it is not a trainable thing.

As far as treats, none of our dogs will take treats from strangers, or in strange places.  They are polite though, taking the offered treat, then politely placing it on the ground.   They will take treats in the house from us, after the sheep are locked up and they are off duty.  These are not food motivated dogs after puppyhood.  They _are_ praise motivated though.

All our dogs are leash trained.  2 of them are crate trained for emergencies.  They are all kennel run trained for their own safety and the safety of any strangers who need to do work on our property.  They do not enjoy riding in the car, but can be put in it with effort for trips to the vet.  It is stressful for them to leave their territory, and we don't like to take them off premises.  Our house dogs enjoyed riding in the car and traveling with us.  Our LGDs do not.  They are not happy away from their flock.

There is very little obedience training to do with an LGD.  Recall (the dog will never be completely reliable and should never be taken outside fencing unless on a leash), Sit (if desired but unnecessary in my opinion), Wait (useful when telling the dog not to go through a door or gate first, or at all) and most important to me, Back Off.  Once learned the Back Off command can be used to back a dog away from a ewe and newborn lamb, from another LGD, and lots of other situations.  Feeding manners is also important.  The LGD (or any dog) must be trained to allow you to remove his food a will while he is eating, and be trained to leave the other dogs food alone as well.  We feed all 3 of our Anatolians together with separate bowls about 4-5 feet apart.  We watch them eat in order to reinforce the no stealing rule.  They have learned to leave another dog's food alone until it is clear that the dog has abandoned his/her bowl.

Our male dog is dominant (an Anatolian trait) and when he was a puppy used to paw at us for attention.  Instead of constantly scolding and punishing him for pawing, we would grab his paw and say "Shake, Good Boy".  We held his paw until he tried to pull it away and just a bit longer.  He learned to only raise his paw on command, turning his dominant action over us into his obedience response to our command, and earning lots of kudos and petting.  This reinforces our role as the dominant pack members.

Decide what commands are necessary to your operation, and only try to teach those behaviors.  Remember that these dogs will never be obedience contenders, that is not why you bought an LGD.


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## FRED DESANTIS (May 20, 2019)

Hi everybody,
Here's an update. Sissy is doing real well and enjoying her job. After being spayed she calmed down a bit. She chase's the new kids around some but we are working it out. I was thinking about getting her shaved for the summer as she has been getting a lot of little briars in her coat but I want to make sure it's a good idea. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks


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## Baymule (May 20, 2019)

Please don't shave her. Her coat is actually cooling for her, shaved, she would sunburn. Also, it protects her from predator bites. A predator will get more hair than skin and muscle in a fight. Not to say that her fur is suit of armor, LGD's can and do get killed by predators. Her coat is her protection. Give her a good brushing, it will help with the burrs and shedding fur. I use a dog brush and a furminator. Then I go take a shower, spitting dog fur. LOL


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## Ridgetop (May 21, 2019)

The heavy hair protects her.  I used to shave our Pyrs once in the summer, but only when the fleas were so bad I couldn't control them with medicated baths and flea control.  When I brought them home they hid until their coats grew back somewhat.  I hated to do it, but the fleas were so bad they scratched raw.  This was before the new oil stuff you drop onto their backs to control the fleas.  Since using those controls, we haven't had any fleas.  As long as they can find shade, or will hollow out a cool place underneath a large bush to sleep during the day their fur insulates.  They will blow half their coat during the spring too.  Try to keep it combed or brushed out - usually in huge clumps - to avoid matting.  I used to do our Pyrs over several days.  I have to do our Anatolians too in the spring, but their hair is not so long and only causes a problem on the back end.


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## Mike CHS (May 21, 2019)

I comb our Pyr every couple of days now.  It was only once a week or so until recently when she began her full blown shed.  I'm getting about a plastic grocery bag full every time now.


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## Mini Horses (May 21, 2019)

I am so glad to hear that this relationship is working better for the both of you!      Understanding her breed traits and your perspective of those  factors seems to have made all the difference.  Now you can both enjoy those goats  -- you feed and play with them, she makes sure they are safe.  A win-win for sure.


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## brashertreyshawn (Sep 7, 2019)

FRED DESANTIS said:


> Hi,





FRED DESANTIS said:


> I have a quick question about LGD breeds. I have a one year old great Pyrenees female.
> She doesn't seem happy here. Onlinesbi sudoku  aadhar card  I think she feels more like a captive than a member of a team. What breed of LGD would be more obedient and loyal. Just wondering.



She isn't seeing a partnership here. I spend hours every day with a new dog just roaming the territory with my dogs. It doesn't take a lot of that for them to see who is supporting the "job"


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## FRED DESANTIS (Sep 7, 2019)

brashertreyshawn said:


> She isn't seeing a partnership here. I spend hours every day with a new dog just roaming the territory with my dogs. It doesn't take a lot of that for them to see who is supporting the "job"


She's doing great now. She is still a pup 16 months old. I am sure she will get even better.
Thanks


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## Ridgetop (Sep 8, 2019)

Large breed dogs are still puppies until age 2 years.  The giant breeds, of which guardian breeds are members, may not mature completely mentally and physically until 30-36 month! 

You may think it is taking too long, but don't get frustrated yet.  She is still learning and you are teaching each other.  The best guardians are not always house dog material.  You recognize that she is a puppy which is great.  Our 10 month old Anatolian puppy has started chewing everything - for a while we thought she was just really good but we have now found her "no man's land" of stolen items.  She has quite a collection squirreled away in her secret location!  She has now chewed the arm off an almost new lawn chair, the corner of a table, countless gardening gloves, etc.  What's a mother to do?!   LOL


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## Baymule (Sep 8, 2019)

TEENAGERS!!


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