# Deworming



## Kalimak (May 8, 2019)

What is the Safeguard dewormer dose for doelings? They're about 2 months old.


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## B&B Happy goats (May 9, 2019)

I use same amount as recomend for adults.,  ......... on adults i dose i double the recomended amount.  (Per my vet recommendation )


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## OneFineAcre (May 9, 2019)

We give 1cc per 10 lbs.


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## B&B Happy goats (May 9, 2019)

Kalimak said:


> What is the Safeguard dewormer dose for doelings? They're about 2 months old.



I am going to follow OFA dosage, as my vet doesn’t  raise goats.....and you and I live in Florida, parasite heaven. 
I use two diffrent wormers at the same time,  this spring it was SafeGuard and Ivomec, repeated in ten days...both given orally


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## Southern by choice (May 9, 2019)

Remember it must be given 3 days consecutively. This is how this dewormer works, it is basically a glucose inhibitor. 
When not used properly this is what builds resistance. 

Do not deworm if load is low- have a fecal run.
2 month old goats should not have parasites.

You are more likely to have coccida on goats this age and dewormers do not work on coccidia.


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## Kalimak (May 9, 2019)

OneFineAcre said:


> We give 1cc per 10 lbs.



Thanks a lot.


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## Kalimak (May 9, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> Remember it must be given 3 days consecutively. This is how this dewormer works, it is basically a glucose inhibitor.
> When not used properly this is what builds resistance.
> 
> Do not deworm if load is low- have a fecal run.
> ...



Thanks. My goats don’t have any signs or symptoms. I just want to do preventative treatment. Or should I not?


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## Kalimak (May 9, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> I am going to follow OFA dosage, as my vet doesn’t  raise goats.....and you and I live in Florida, parasite heaven.
> I use two diffrent wormers at the same time,  this spring it was SafeGuard and Ivomec, repeated in ten days...both given orally



Thanks. That’s true, I’m concerned after the amount of rain we got the other day with the storm...


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## Southern by choice (May 9, 2019)

Kalimak said:


> Thanks. My goats don’t have any signs or symptoms. I just want to do preventative treatment. Or should I not?


No, this is how resistance is built.
Deworm ONLY when the parasitic numbers are high enough to where they are affecting the goat.
This  2 articles may give more insight and help you understand "numbers".
1 article is broken in to 2 parts.
https://www.backyardherds.com/resources/understanding-famacha-fecal-analysis.56/

https://www.backyardherds.com/resources/the-mcmasters-method-fecal-analysis.55/
https://www.backyardherds.com/resources/mcmasters-method-fecal-analysis-part2.57/


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## Kalimak (May 9, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> No, this is how resistance is built.
> Deworm ONLY when the parasitic numbers are high enough to where they are affecting the goat.
> This  2 articles may give more insight and help you understand "numbers".
> 1 article is broken in to 2 parts.
> ...



Ok thanks a lot.


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## OneFineAcre (May 9, 2019)

Kalimak said:


> Thanks. My goats don’t have any signs or symptoms. I just want to do preventative treatment. Or should I not?



No, you shouldn't do that.


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## Kalimak (May 12, 2019)

OneFineAcre said:


> No, you shouldn't do that.



Noted. Thank you.


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## Rella Wingler (May 15, 2019)

For Safeguard, my vet told me today its 1.1 ml per 25 lbs.
I took in a fecal and our 2 month olds have worms and coccidia(Treating with Albon but just got my Baycox today. Super excited to try it!!!).
We have had a very wet April/May so far.
The you can't really prevent it from happening. Keep an eye on their Famacha scores, overall body condition, and behavior. Can learn a lot just by observing your goaties ^_^
Good luck!


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## Southern by choice (May 15, 2019)

Rella Wingler said:


> For Safeguard, my vet told me today its 1.1 ml per 25 lbs.
> I took in a fecal and our 2 month olds have worms and coccidia(Treating with Albon but just got my Baycox today. Super excited to try it!!!).
> We have had a very wet April/May so far.
> The you can't really prevent it from happening. Keep an eye on their Famacha scores, overall body condition, and behavior. Can learn a lot just by observing your goaties ^_^
> Good luck!



Is your vet a goat vet? Or general livestock vet?


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## Poppy91 (May 16, 2019)

We give ivermectin horse oral paste x3 the suggested amount on the label as majority of the meds goes to the ruman we do this for adults and our babies 
This was suggested by our vet as well and we have Never had a problem and the dewormer has always worked for us (proven by fecal test)


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## Rella Wingler (May 16, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> Is your vet a goat vet? Or general livestock vet?


She is a goat vet ^_^


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## Southern by choice (May 16, 2019)

Rella Wingler said:


> She is a goat vet ^_^


Sounds like the wormx chart.

Not effective at this dose and it is not a one dose wormer... but you should do what your vet says.


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## OneFineAcre (May 16, 2019)

Rella Wingler said:


> For Safeguard, my vet told me today its 1.1 ml per 25 lbs.



My vet told me 1 ml per 10 lbs, given for a minimum of 3 days.


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## Lincoln's mom (Jul 11, 2019)

Hello, this post is from May, hope someone sees this.
Georgy 10 weeks Nigerian, just got her 2 weeks ago.
She's never been wormed before I got her and no cocci treatment. 
Eyes not as dark pink ,  and she is always hungry. I cant leave hay or even mineral's free choice because she will not stop till it's ALL gone !! I was told she just had her CDT before I picked her up that was about 2 weeks ago.  so I'm worming. I have ivermectin horse paste she is tiny maybe 5 lbs I'm thinking 1 ml ?? Or!! New vet ( not a goat vet)recommended ivermectin 1% injectable. So he gave me protmectin injection  for cattle and swine. I never used this!! Ask for dose he said wasn't sure he have to look it up.
So my question is dose on paste correct or do I need to use the injectable?? Also can I do the Cord at same time as worming. Should I do the 5 day??
Thank-you in advance


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 11, 2019)

How old is she?  5 lbs is very tiny if you have had her for 2 weeks.  I've had them weigh that much when they are born.
I don't know the dose for the horse paste.
We use the 1% ivermectin injectable but give it orally.  We give it like 1ml per 50 lbs.  
You need to know exactly how much the goat weighs.
Weigh your self on a bathroom scale.  Then hold the goat and weigh again and subtract to find the goats weight.
I would recommend first that you get a fecal and find out for sure if she has worms.
I don't use corrid so I can't tell you anything about that.


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## Lincoln's mom (Jul 12, 2019)

Thank you for your reply, my post is not accurate. It should say about 15 pound's and she is not very tiny. I guess I shouldn't be in a hurry and read what I wrote! 
On scale today, she is 13 pounds so I was off even at 15. 
Yes I know I should get a fecal done on her but I was always taught to check eyes if pale worm. This is old school and I know I don't want to create resistance.
About the Cocci treatment with Cord again always done as a preventative measure.
Things change over the years on how to treat goats, that's why I signed up on BYH to do what's best for my goats.
Thank you again,


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 12, 2019)

If you are going to give the ivermectin I would give about 1/4 ml

How old is she?


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## Lincoln's mom (Jul 12, 2019)

OneFineAcre said:


> If you are going to give the ivermectin I would give about 1/4 ml
> 
> How old is she?


She is 10 weeks, thanks for info


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## rachels.haven (Jul 17, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> Remember it must be given 3 days consecutively. This is how this dewormer works, it is basically a glucose inhibitor.



Quick question: So this is referring to Safeguard? And it DOES work if used like this? I've always been shy of it because everyone always says it never works at all.


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## Mini Horses (Jul 17, 2019)

rachels.haven said:


> I've always been shy of it because everyone always says it never works at all.



Must be used correctly, otherwise waste of money.  If you can't do consecutive, use another product.  Plus, not every type worm needs same type product....one of reasons for fecal.


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## messybun (Jul 17, 2019)

I personally hate using any chemical wormer because of all the inherent dangers. We use Molly’s herbals dewormer. It works amazingly and no side effects. If your kid is eating that much food something is definitely off! Try giving her rabbit feed for a boost of copper, keep it to 1/4 cup a day. Also at that age she needs more than just hay and mineral blocks. We give sweet feed until the are six months old, they get corn all through the winter and a little in the summer for variety. Some form of grain like goat pellets, barley, oats, bread, whatever is also needed for growing goats; big goats should have some too. As long as your baby isn’t getting sick give free feed, keeping in mind goats should look fairly fat when they’re healthy.
   If my adult goats get underweight I give them “fatso granola” it is about 1/2 cup pumpkin seeds, 1/4 cup sunflower seeds, 1/2-1 cup oats, 2tbs apple cider vinegar, 4-8 cups deer corn, dash of cinnamon and covered in molasses. Add some peanuts for a little extra boost too.


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## Southern by choice (Jul 17, 2019)

messybun said:


> I personally hate using any chemical wormer because of all the inherent dangers. We use Molly’s herbals dewormer. It works amazingly and no side effects. If your kid is eating that much food something is definitely off! Try giving her rabbit feed for a boost of copper, keep it to 1/4 cup a day. Also at that age she needs more than just hay and mineral blocks. We give sweet feed until the are six months old, they get corn all through the winter and a little in the summer for variety. Some form of grain like goat pellets, barley, oats, bread, whatever is also needed for growing goats; big goats should have some too. As long as your baby isn’t getting sick give free feed, keeping in mind goats should look fairly fat when they’re healthy.
> If my adult goats get underweight I give them “fatso granola” it is about 1/2 cup pumpkin seeds, 1/4 cup sunflower seeds, 1/2-1 cup oats, 2tbs apple cider vinegar, 4-8 cups deer corn, dash of cinnamon and covered in molasses. Add some peanuts for a little extra boost too.



Nigerians will literally eat til they die so the fact that her goat wants to eat everything is normal for a Nigerian.
The feeding regimine that you recommend - itf it works for you that is great however I see "metabolic nightmare". 
Molasses, at least too much interferes with mineral absorption. BOSS without balancing the calcium will essentially be too high in phosphorus, and straight corn can give acidosis. A dairy goat feed is best it is balanced and formulated for proper nutrition. I can not see ever giving bread to a goat.  Working dairy goats should NOT look fat. They should have an adequate BCS score with proper fleshing.

Molly's herbals is effective however for many it isn't enough depending on the region and how diligent they are at monitoring EPG counts. We have done many herd assessments and have found that there is a general false sence of security with those that do herbal deworming. Mostly because there is zero monitoring being done. When we get there and see white membranes and run fecals and see the counts as well as show the FAMACHA ( we are certified) owners are shocked that their goats are heading toward total crash. Knowing how to monitor is key for any method but sometimes chemical deowrmers are necessary and coccidia prevention and or treatments are vital on most farms. The danger can be looked at both ways. One, herbals not being enough and false sense of security and chemical dewormers used incorrectly.


@Lincoln's mom  see above. And give free choice hay at all times, limit feed.



rachels.haven said:


> Quick question: So this is referring to Safeguard? And it DOES work if used like this? I've always been shy of it because everyone always says it never works at all.


Yes, however if you already have built resistance or the goats you brought in have created superworms then no. 
Fecals with EPG counts to check efficacy and follow through for all 4 stages are critical.


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## Baymule (Jul 17, 2019)

Fecals rock! I learned how to run fecals when we went to Tennessee to get Ringo from @Mike CHS. His wife, Teresa, showed me how to do fecals. I got all my stuff together and ran my first fecals. They left me DUMBFOUNDED. I had a couple of sheep that had barber pole counts so high, I don't know how they weren't dead. And their eye membranes were pink, not the brightest pink, but pink enough to not be alarming. My worst sheep traced back to one of my original sheep. I'll be cleaning house and culling.


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## rachels.haven (Jul 17, 2019)

What is the acceptable range of eggs per gram, if no one minds me asking?


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## Southern by choice (Jul 18, 2019)

rachels.haven said:


> What is the acceptable range of eggs per gram, if no one minds me asking?


https://www.backyardherds.com/resources/what-is-a-high-load-when-to-de-worm.41/

I really need to update this and do a better job of it! LOL
The point in the article is understanding each individual goat.  
It is often suggested in most research to deworm only when counts reach a particular number (2000 EPG or so) but I strongly disagree because over many years we see the ill affects of those high numbers. When numbers get too high people hit them hard and that is more often then not deadly.
Work with your vet but also LEARN to do your own fecals and observe.



Baymule said:


> Fecals rock! I learned how to run fecals when we went to Tennessee to get Ringo from @Mike CHS. His wife, Teresa, showed me how to do fecals. I got all my stuff together and ran my first fecals. They left me DUMBFOUNDED. I had a couple of sheep that had barber pole counts so high, I don't know how they weren't dead. And their eye membranes were pink, not the brightest pink, but pink enough to not be alarming. My worst sheep traced back to one of my original sheep. I'll be cleaning house and culling.



That is awesome. 
I preach it, teach it, stress the importance, yet so many still don't learn. I cannot understand it.
It is easy to do and one of the best management tools.


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## Baymule (Jul 18, 2019)

This is a good tutorial on the process, but does not identify barber pole eggs. It also does not give the number of eggs that identify numbers of eggs. But it is a good place to start. I'll see what else I can find.

https://web.uri.edu/sheepngoat/files/McMaster-Test_Final3.pdf

SBC just posted, print out her article and this one. I had the advantage of someone teaching me, get your supplies together and post pictures, ask questions and we will walk you through it. I'm definitely NEW to this process, but others are not. I love BYH and the desire that people have to help others.


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## Baymule (Jul 18, 2019)

I bought this McMaster slide kit

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MY65UB0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and this strainer, could have gotten a smaller one but it's hard to tell from pictures

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LNTRRS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The microscope is one we bought for grand daughter a couple of years ago, it was in their storage shed.


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## Southern by choice (Jul 18, 2019)

@Baymule  I looked at the link you provided. I do have several links here on exactly how to do it step by step as well as understanding multipliers and when you cannot get 4 grams. 
There are lots of pics too. More detailed so people have a better understanding. I have seen tutorials where they fail to mention fine strainer and others that mention a centrifuge (not necessary)
I also do NOT like any salt based solutions. Sugar is best IMO because it is exact for proper weight AND it doesn't crush eggs like other solutions do. Giardia is one that is easily damaged.

I also love the kit that I have from Chalix (aka vetslides) - none of the cheap plastic stuff many sell. The beakers are designed specifically for the McMasters, so it makes it quite easy.

https://www.backyardherds.com/resources/understanding-famacha-fecal-analysis.56/

https://www.backyardherds.com/resources/the-mcmasters-method-fecal-analysis.55/
https://www.backyardherds.com/resources/mcmasters-method-fecal-analysis-part2.57/


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## rachels.haven (Jul 18, 2019)

What about normal coccidia numbers? Especially for kids?


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## hailehysen (Sep 5, 2019)

Kalimak said:


> What is the Safeguard dewormer dose for doelings? They're Speed Test Scrabble Word Finder Solitaire about 2 months old.


it is basically a glucose inhibitor. 
When not used properly this is what builds resistance.


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