# Worming lambs and moms



## Southdown (May 23, 2012)

What do you all do for worming new lambs and their mothers?  I'm under the impression that the lambs must be a minimum of 25 pounds to be wormed.  Is this correct?  Because on the labels, the minimum weight listed is 25lbs.  I think last year I waited until he was 25lbs.  I gave Valbazen last year in the Spring and Ivermectin in the Fall.  Also, I was wondering about worming the mothers because the lambs are still nursing and I am concerned about how much is passed via the breast milk to the lamb.  If so, would that not increase the dosage the lambs are getting and make the dosages inaccurate?  I wouldn't want to overdose the lambs.


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## Cornish Heritage (May 26, 2012)

I can't answer this question as we do not worm our St. Croix. I suspect it all depends on the breed of sheep that you have so hopefully someone else will be able to help you. 

Liz


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## Four Winds Ranch (May 26, 2012)

I usually worm my sheep about a month before the ewes lamb, and then in the fall about a month before breeding. 
I am sorry, I don't worm my lambs, only the ones I am planning to keep, when I do the whole herd in the fall.


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## elevan (May 26, 2012)

You *don't *need to worry about overdose via milk excretion if you deworm a nursing animal.

Here's an article that may help you understand deworming (for goats and sheep):  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-parasite-mgmt

I can't speak toward lambs with certainty but with goats if they need dewormed  we do it no matter what their weight.  We use the same dewormers that are available for sheep in goats.  You just need to do the math to figure out a dosage for smaller animals.  Heck my goats are close to 6 months before they even hit 25#!


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## kfacres (May 27, 2012)

we use three dewomers- valbazen, cydectin, and ivomec... each does it's own specific thing- and some are for using in preg animals-- and some for rams as to not effect fertility.

I deworm my ewes in the fall- when they come up from pasture. this gets them cleaned out- before spreading the worms and eggs throughout the shed- keeps it cleaner for newborn lambs.

I deworm my ewes when I wean and kick out to pasture.  this helps clean them out before dirtying my grass.  

I deworm my lambs every 30-45 days throughout their life, starting at weaning-- which is when my lambs will weigh 40-70 pounds (40-60 days of age)-- until atleast fall.  

You cannot over dose dewormer-- I give 2x the label dose on every administer, and sometimes 3x the dose.  sometimes I do this 3 days in a row if I suspect a problem.  

it is proven that in most cases- to be effective- you must atleast double the dose.

in most cases-- sheep won't need dewormed unless exposed hardcore.


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## Royd Wood (May 27, 2012)

kfacres said:
			
		

> we use three dewomers- valbazen, cydectin, and ivomec... each does it's own specific thing- and some are for using in preg animals-- and some for rams as to not effect fertility.
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> I deworm my ewes in the fall- when they come up from pasture. this gets them cleaned out- before spreading the worms and eggs throughout the shed- keeps it cleaner for newborn lambs.
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WOW with the greatest respect thats large amounts - I have a flock of Romney and use nothing ever. I would try to encourage folks out there to use the minimum or none


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## kfacres (May 27, 2012)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

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If I am going to invest grain into my sheep, and hope for maximun growth/ gain-- I intend for every nutrient to be absorbed by the sheep- not the worms.  

I deworm my bigger than normal, show sheep-- not nearly as much as most of my counterparts.

What do your ewes weigh mature- 100?  Mine are over 200.


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## bonbean01 (May 27, 2012)

I hate to sound like a broken record...but as I've mentioned before, we have hair sheep...Dorper/Kat cross who have a natural resistance unless that gets screwed up with regular chemical worming and they lose that trait.  We use the barrier garlic, apple cider vinegar to drench them monthly as a preventive.  Always check the colour below their eyes for pinkness or paleness and it is working great.  Hair sheep farmers in this area think this is not enough and treat regularly with cydectin whether they need it or not.  

Never worry about giving them this...full dose for adults, half dose for lambs...it can't hurt them nor cause abortions in the pregnant ewes.  Of course I add molasses to the mixture, probiotics and some liquid vitamin B and A.


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## Royd Wood (May 27, 2012)

kfacres said:
			
		

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 are you bragging by any chance - Why on earth would I want a 200lb Romney ewe, 120 is my biggest which is more than enough and thats with strictly no grain and no injections, just good old grass and hay. If your methods work for you then I'm pleased its just some members on here who are new to sheep need to be wary about your orig post mentioning - at least a double dose and every 30 to 45 days - even you must agree that is very intense worming program.


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## Royd Wood (May 27, 2012)

bonbean01 said:
			
		

> I hate to sound like a broken record...but as I've mentioned before, we have hair sheep...Dorper/Kat cross who have a natural resistance unless that gets screwed up with regular chemical worming and they lose that trait.  We use the barrier garlic, apple cider vinegar to drench them monthly as a preventive.  Always check the colour below their eyes for pinkness or paleness and it is working great.  Hair sheep farmers in this area think this is not enough and treat regularly with cydectin whether they need it or not.
> 
> Never worry about giving them this...full dose for adults, half dose for lambs...it can't hurt them nor cause abortions in the pregnant ewes.  Of course I add molasses to the mixture, probiotics and some liquid vitamin B and A.


Keep playin that tune bon


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## elevan (May 27, 2012)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

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Aggressive overuse of dewormers leads to drug resistant worms.  You should do a Drench Rite Assay to figure out what the dosage that you really need on your farm is for each chemical dewormer.  At the rate that you're going you may find in a few years that you have super worms that you can't kill.  JMHO


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## bonbean01 (May 27, 2012)

Thanks Royd  sheep  farmers here think us crazy...but if it works and does not cause a resistance then what harm done?  If we had just started this I wouldn't be touting it...buy hey...was four years this spring, so I am.  The beauty of hair sheep is their natural resistance to worms...so why mess with that?

p.s.  they love the molasses in there...licking their lips after.


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## Southdown (May 27, 2012)

Can you share more about the natural wormer?  It sounds like something I would be interested to learn about.  So far, I have been reading the directions on the labels of wormers and calculating the amounts to match the sheep's weights exactly.  I don't go a CC over or less.  I'm hoping that my being precise is the right thing to do.  It makes me too nervous to go over (or even double) the amount because I don't want to hurt the animal or create resistant worms.  I think my approach this year might be to bring in fecal samples to my vet to monitor how they are doing and then get his recommendations based on what he finds in the fecal samples.  But I wouldn't mind doing at least one worming this Spring now since the new lambs have never been wormed yet.  I'm not worried about pushing weight gain as I don't do market lambs.  However, I do want me ewes to put on some weight after birthing.


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## Remuda1 (May 27, 2012)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

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X2. Plus, I don't have that kind of money to spend on my sheep and if my sheep required that kind of maintenance, I'd have to find another breed. For me, the bottom line has to matter. If there is not an apparent need for the wormer, then there's no apparent need to spend that money. I also agree with the multitudes of research that indicates overuse results in parasite resistance.


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## kfacres (May 27, 2012)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

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I can't think of a single reason why I would want to raise a Romney-- of any size-- or any ewe that weighs 120 pounds or less mature.  Different strokes for different folks.

i've also attended these same seminars with overusage in mind... and according to these-- even at 2 or 3x the rate-- you're still not overdoing the dewormer.  I know people who use 10x the ammount- and for certain instanced that's needed.  

In my ordeal- I have a strict de-worming program on my lambs for the first 8 or so months of their life.  Why- these sheep are needing strict growth in order to achieve max productivity.  You don't win shows with wormy lambs, nor do heavy wormed lambs sell for thousands of dollars.  

Hi input sheep- yield out output sheep.  

I don't think deworming my old flock 2x a year is out of line- I think those two times are almost required for wool sheep.  

The other thing- how many of you have had sheep for more than 5 years? 10?  at the same location?  How many sheep do you have, on how many acres?  All of these things all need to be taken into account when you're talking about deworming and parasite resistance.  

*If I had 5 hair sheep, on 5 acres, and have had them for 2 years-- then I wouldn't deworm them either...  *  Heck for that matter I wouldn't vaccinate them, wouldn't grain them, wouldn't hay them- wouldn't do anything but gather up lambs in April or May and sell them...  Heck, for that matter, I wouldn't do anything but sell them for whatever my local lamb buyer wanted to pay for them either...


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## Royd Wood (May 27, 2012)

I'll give you a single reason - Very resistant to worms


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## Southdown (May 28, 2012)

I'm hoping to have my sheep for 10+ years, until the day they die on my farm.  Would that mean I need to worm more or less?


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## kfacres (May 28, 2012)

Southdown said:
			
		

> I'm hoping to have my sheep for 10+ years, until the day they die on my farm.  Would that mean I need to worm more or less?


not necessarily.  But the longer you have your livestock, using the same equipment, and facilities... the more and more prone they will be to experiencing problems.  Problems such as foot rot, foot scald, abortions, tetnus, sore mouth, and of course worms.  

A good old timer told me once- those who are most successful, move every 5 years to a new clean place and start over- and leave all their germs behind.  

I know when I moved from my parent's place-- it seemed that the health program changed completely.  The only care over problem that we took with us seemed to be pinkeye, of which we battled like crazy last summer.


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## Southdown (May 28, 2012)

Yes, it would be good to move to fresh land and leave the old land idle.  I read in a book once that it is also good to rotate different species of animals on the land because they have different kinds of parasites/worms/etc.  But realistically, most people don't have a large variety of animals to do that.  Our vet asked us if this farm had other sheep on it in the past because that would affect the worm load here.  It hasn't had sheep to our knowledge, so he thought that was a good thing anyway.  But over the years, it should add up.  He basically told us to use Valbazen and we could rotate it with Ivermectin.  So that's what we have pretty much doing up until now.  But I am not real keen to continue this way because I want to know if it's working.  That's why I think I will do some periodic fecal samples.  They don't cost that much to do and it's probably worth it.


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## Cornish Heritage (May 28, 2012)

It's not just the dosage that would concern me it would be the fact that of what you would be eating in the end product! The only animals we worm here are the piglets at 8 weeks old (weaning) & mostly because they are headed out to other farms. Other than that we do not worm any of our other livestock routinely - it is not necessary. In fact I was just reading today & I quote:

* "Rule of thumb regarding parasites.... 20% of the herd will carry 80% of the parasite load. No one seems to know why this is... just some pigs are more susceptible to infestation."*

Now this quote was admittedly for pigs but I suspect it is applicable for other livestock also & would explain why some die once in a while. Most of us panic & think they had some hideous disease when in fact it could just be nature's way of getting rid of the weak ones. 

Raising livestock to be hardy without chemicals in this 'chemical laden world' is a big plus in my opinion because no matter what others may say what goes in does come out & all that wormer/chemical is going into your pastures leaving a residue, killing off all the good bugs etc. 

Liz


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## kfacres (May 28, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> It's not just the dosage that would concern me it would be the fact that of what you would be eating in the end product! The only animals we worm here are the piglets at 8 weeks old (weaning) & mostly because they are headed out to other farms. Other than that we do not worm any of our other livestock routinely - it is not necessary. In fact I was just reading today & I quote:
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> * "Rule of thumb regarding parasites.... 20% of the herd will carry 80% of the parasite load. No one seems to know why this is... just some pigs are more susceptible to infestation."*
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since you're getting all organic on me:

How do you intend to sanitize your garden produce- can't use soap and common everyday cleaning supplies.  You realize that almost every E-coli (or other contaminated produce) outbreak comes from "organic' produce?  Why-- b/c they can't do a good enough job to clean these things off.  Why is E-Coli such a big deal in organics?  Manure-- being directly applied to the plants and veg we humans eat... and then they can't be washed with anything but water... so how do we get them clean enough to eat?

how do you clean your house, wash your clothes, or your dishes, can't use those soaps and chemical rich things-- they have bad things in them.

Do you not realize that even certified organic farms- can get gifted the gift of using non-organic ingredients?  At the one I worked at while in college, we used spoiled corn gluton feed from the barge, we used GMO fed hog manure, and we used organic pesticides/ herbicides... Get real? Organic roundup??

I find it extremely unbelievable that these products being used for a specific reason-- dewormers, feed additives, etc... are released.  Do you realize that chemical companies have products that are safer to use, eat, and be around-- than driving cars?


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## Southdown (May 28, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> It's not just the dosage that would concern me it would be the fact that of what you would be eating in the end product! The only animals we worm here are the piglets at 8 weeks old (weaning) & mostly because they are headed out to other farms. Other than that we do not worm any of our other livestock routinely - it is not necessary. In fact I was just reading today & I quote:
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> * "Rule of thumb regarding parasites.... 20% of the herd will carry 80% of the parasite load. No one seems to know why this is... just some pigs are more susceptible to infestation."*
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Good reminder!  Yes, it is a good point to be breeding for improved genetics.  The strong, resistant ones will persist and the weak ones will die off.  Indeed, nature does have a way sometimes.  I also agree when it comes to breeding plants.  I save seeds of open pollinated plants and select for the best traits.  Over time, you are improving the variety and can have something good in the end that is specific for an environment.  I agree with the "what goes in, comes out onto the soil" statement.  All things in moderation, I guess.  Yet another reason I think I should be doing the fecal monitoring.  It could be thought of as comparable to "integrated pest management" practices.  Test for specific organisms in the stool sample and only use the class of wormer when indicated by need.


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## bonbean01 (May 28, 2012)

That's how we feel too Cornish...one of the reasons we like to grow our own food.  The organic wormer preventative for our meat sheep is the same thing we put on our salads...garlic and apple cider vinegar.  We had a hard time in the beginning when we got chickens to find feed that was NOT medicated...have found the Co-op in a nearby city that sells non medicated feeds.  If I wanted chemicals in my food, why would I bother with chickens and eggs at home?  

We keep things pretty clean around here and so far, no problems going without chemicals for our meat sheep, chickens and garden...yes, we do share some cabbage in the garden with bugs, but we plant enough for us and the bugs.  Didn't work out though for the plums and peaches...beetles are very greedy and I won't get any this year.  Grapes and apples are looking very good though  Will do more research about the plums and peaches for next year.

We grow extra yellow crook squash...some for us and more for the sheep.  Besides being packed with vitamins, if you let the sheep squash grow large the seeds are also good for a natural wormer...here the biggest problem is Barberpole worms and they like to attach themselves to the seeds, and pass through the sheep in their feces...they don't last long exposed to the sun and air.  Bonus is that some of the seeds will replant themselves and the sheep get an extra treat.  Our sheep love squash and we picked a kind that has the most nutrients in it.

As for soap, laundry detergent, etc...yes, we use them...read the labels and do the best you can...going completely organic is a challenge, but going as organic as you can within reason...I'm all for it!


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## Royd Wood (May 29, 2012)

kfacres said:
			
		

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## kfacres (May 29, 2012)

bonbean01 said:
			
		

> That's how we feel too Cornish...one of the reasons we like to grow our own food.  The organic wormer preventative for our meat sheep is the same thing we put on our salads...garlic and apple cider vinegar.  We had a hard time in the beginning when we got chickens to find feed that was NOT medicated...have found the Co-op in a nearby city that sells non medicated feeds.  If I wanted chemicals in my food, why would I bother with chickens and eggs at home?
> 
> We keep things pretty clean around here and so far, no problems going without chemicals for our meat sheep, chickens and garden...yes, we do share some cabbage in the garden with bugs, but we plant enough for us and the bugs.  Didn't work out though for the plums and peaches...beetles are very greedy and I won't get any this year.  Grapes and apples are looking very good though  Will do more research about the plums and peaches for next year.
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what do you do about squash bugs...  even the chemical dependent folk- struggle with them.  

ROYD WOOD: huh, Well, I'll be dern...  Seems to be that poster did everything but mention the word "organic"


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## aggieterpkatie (May 29, 2012)

And just a note, you CAN overdose dewormer.  Levasol is the main one I can think of right now that warns DO NOT overdose it.


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## bonbean01 (May 29, 2012)

kfacres...lots of great info on this on the garden forum...squash bugs/beetles, etc.


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## Southdown (May 29, 2012)

I'm going to feed my sheep some summer squash this year now!  They do like the Winter squash and I feed that to them in the Winter.  Some of the sheep like it more than others.  Our ram and his suffolk friend especially like Blue Hubbards.  Our ram also has a particular flavor for our Honeygold apples.  We have an orchard and he will intentionally go eat those apples.  It's kind of cute.  The summer squash seed idea...it reminds me of how you can feed chickens diatomecous earth and that's supposed to be a natural wormer too.  I haven't tried it yet because my chickens are quite young.


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## Southdown (May 29, 2012)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> And just a note, you CAN overdose dewormer.  Levasol is the main one I can think of right now that warns DO NOT overdose it.


Also, you are not supposed to use Valbazen for pregnant ewes or breeding season for rams.  It makes me too nervous to go over the dosage.  My sheep are friendly little things.


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## kfacres (May 29, 2012)

Southdown said:
			
		

> I'm going to feed my sheep some summer squash this year now!  They do like the Winter squash and I feed that to them in the Winter.  Some of the sheep like it more than others.  Our ram and his suffolk friend especially like Blue Hubbards.  Our ram also has a particular flavor for our Honeygold apples.  We have an orchard and he will intentionally go eat those apples.  It's kind of cute.  The summer squash seed idea...it reminds me of how you can feed chickens diatomecous earth and that's supposed to be a natural wormer too.  I haven't tried it yet because my chickens are quite young.


best dewormer in the world is a cup full of apple seeds-- course you'll kill the animal from the arsenic found within... but atleast it's an organic dewormer.


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## Southdown (May 29, 2012)

They get their share of apples around here (all you can eat buffet).  I feed them apples throughout the Winter as well and they really think it's a special "treat."  They have learned to recognize the word "apples."  If I say it in the Winter, they all come running and wait expectantly.  It goes from quiet to noisy very fast and all from one little word.  They are allowed to clean up our orchard and we've never had anyone get ill from eating too many apples.


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## Royd Wood (May 29, 2012)

kfacres said:
			
		

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## bonbean01 (May 29, 2012)

Our sheep love crabapple branches with the leaves and apples.  We don't give them tons, just a little a day for a treat...when they see us at that tree they come running and wait...too cute.  But, we don't give them a cup full of seeds...now seriously, you know no one would do that.  Before pooh poohing natural worming methods, look up the research...it is now (at least for hair sheep) recognized as valid and effective with no parasite resistance.

Southdown, I sent you an email for the information you asked for 

Oh...and I might add...this year we fenced in the peach trees too...they are very young, but with the sheep keeping the bottoms grazed and bottom off shoots down, the trees are doing so much better...go figure!


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## Southdown (May 29, 2012)

bonbean01 said:
			
		

> Our sheep love crabapple branches with the leaves and apples.  We don't give them tons, just a little a day for a treat...when they see us at that tree they come running and wait...too cute.  But, we don't give them a cup full of seeds...now seriously, you know no one would do that.  Before pooh poohing natural worming methods, look up the research...it is now (at least for hair sheep) recognized as valid and effective with no parasite resistance.
> 
> Southdown, I sent you an email for the information you asked for
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> Oh...and I might add...this year we fenced in the peach trees too...they are very young, but with the sheep keeping the bottoms grazed and bottom off shoots down, the trees are doing so much better...go figure!


That's how we got into sheep in the first place.  We needed our orchard mowed while we were at work all day.  Although you can't have dwarf trees, it works great.  I could go on about it.  You can take some hay with manure from your barn floor and use it to mulch around the base of your fruit trees.  It's working great on our young "Sweet Sixteen" apple tree.  Of course they keep the root suckers away and also the lower branches, which aren't good for fruit production anyway (too much fungus, not enough sunlight, etc).  As for crabapples, our Suffolk liked the crabapple a lot.  Thank God that one is a standard.


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## bonbean01 (May 29, 2012)

We've had no problem with sheep in with our young orchard...see it as a win-win   One of our ewes was trying to reach higher up on a tree and was standing on her back legs and doing a little jump...hilarious...then she gives up, but her lamb went and did the exact same thing


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## kfacres (May 29, 2012)

Don't know anything about this site; but from what I have read-- they are exactly correct-- as I remember it from my days as a Forestry major at the university.

http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/apples.asp


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## bonbean01 (May 30, 2012)

Yes, I've been aware of this, however the key here is moderation I believe.  As a kid I liked to crack open apricot or peach pits for the almond tasting nut inside and my Mom had fits and poison was the reason for that, so didn't do that anymore.

The tapioca is something I'd not heard of before.  Thanks for the post.


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## Cornish Heritage (Jun 1, 2012)

Been out of the loop for a few days on this thread - sorry! I had NO idea that sheep would eat squash so I have certainly learned something there. We are actually attempting to grow pumpkins & squash this year for the pigs (don't care for it much ourselves) so I guess the pigs will have to be nice & share with the sheep!

As bonbean01 said 





> the key here is moderation


We wouldn't think of overdosing ourselves on a medication just because we *thought *we had something, or at least I hope we wouldn't. The same should be the same with our critters and if we can breed hardiness into our animals I think we should.

Liz


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## Southdown (Jun 10, 2012)

Just read this article:
The Risks of Global Worming

For decades, the overuse of antibiotics has encouraged the evolution of drug-resistant bacteria, which, though they have never broken out and caused an epidemic in the way that was once feared, have nevertheless been responsible for many deaths that might otherwise have been avoided. Now something similar seems to be happening in agriculture. The overuse of drugs against parasitic worms, which infest stock animals means that these, too, are becoming drug-resistant. That is bad for the animals' health and welfare, and equally bad for farmers' profits.

This, at least, is the conclusion drawn by Ray Kaplan, Ph.D., a parasitologist at the University of Georgia who has just published a review of research on the problem. His results, which appear in Veterinary Parasitology, make grim reading.

Sheep and goats are the worst affected. Studies in Australia, Brazil and the United States suggest that animals in half or more of farms in many parts of these countries are infested with drug-resistant worms. In some cases, the parasites are resistant to every drug that can be thrown at them.

Cattle, too, are afflicted. Kaplan cites work done in Argentina, Brazil and New Zealand. And horses suffer as well, with resistant worms turning up in both America and Europe.

The root of the problem is what Kaplan refers to as "global worming"--giving drugs prophylactically to all livestock rather than reserving them for use as a treatment when an animal actually becomes infested. It is common sense, of course, to try to prevent infestation rather than merely treating it once it has arisen. Unfortunately, such promiscuous use of drugs is the best way to put selection pressure on the worms and encourage the evolution of resistant strains.

What is needed, says Kaplan, is more selective drug use and better management. Worms are not evenly distributed. Instead, a minority of animals play host to most of them. Aiming treatment at those animals would reduce the likelihood of resistance emerging without harming a farmer's ability to control infestations. Better husbandry might help, too. Not grazing so many animals on a given patch of land would discourage transmission.

No one farmer is to blame. This is a tragedy of the commons, in which sensible individual decisions have led to a collective difficulty. But it might behove farmers to think more about how they use anti-worm drugs. If they do not, they may find that those drugs have become useless.


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## Cornish Heritage (Jun 11, 2012)

Thanks Southdown, 

This article makes total sense. It is what is happening in humans too - WAY too much overuse of antibiotics hence the Superbugs. AND if you are eating commercially raised meat from the grocery store then you are most likely feeding yourself antibiotics & goodness know what else! Not a very pleasant thought. If the consumer really woke up to what is going on there would be a *lot* more folks moving to the country raising their own meat. 


Liz


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## feed grass (Jun 11, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> Thanks Southdown,
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> This article makes total sense. It is what is happening in humans too - WAY too much overuse of antibiotics hence the Superbugs. AND if you are eating commercially raised meat from the grocery store then you are most likely feeding yourself antibiotics & goodness know what else! Not a very pleasant thought. If the consumer really woke up to what is going on there would be a *lot* more folks moving to the country raising their own meat.
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The world evolved from the way it 'used' to be for a reason.  

Not everyone can afford to live on 40 acres and be self sustaining-- actually very few people have the money, the brains, or the work ethic to do so.

it's not cheaper to raise it yourself, no matter how you look at it.

homegrown meat isn't all it's cracked up to be either, in almost every case all it does is put money in someone else's pocket-- and force the consumer to either have tons of freezer space-- or get burnt out eating the same thing over and over.

Not to mention, that land prices are way over 10k an acre throughout the cornbelt.


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## Cornish Heritage (Jun 11, 2012)

> it's not cheaper to raise it yourself, no matter how you look at it.


I never said it was cheaper to raise it yourself! LOL! Especially pork that does need grain supplementation. Grass fed beef & lamb though can be cheaper.



> homegrown meat isn't all it's cracked up to be either, in almost every case all it does is put money in someone else's pocket-- and force the consumer to either have tons of freezer space-- or get burnt out eating the same thing over and over.


If you are not raising it yourself you need to research where you are buying it from. Your statement 





> in almost every case all it does is put money in someone else's pocket


goes for nearly everything you purchase in this world! If you buy meat from the grocery store you are supporting the big conglomerates - putting money in their pockets. 



> burnt out eating the same thing over and over


Are you saying that a pig in your freezer is going to cause you to become bored with what you are eating? Bacon, sausage, chops, ribs, roasts etc. Throw in a few chickens & you have some variety. Granted, not everyone has room for a whole cow in their freezer & that is why you can normally purchase those in quarters. 

Years ago many many folks raised chickens in their back yards. Chickens do not take up much space, you certainly do not need a large acreage. They provide you with healthy eggs & meat. If you only have a few they can live off your food scraps so no extra money to feed them is necessary. If you have more than a few a 50lb bag of feed will still last quite a while.

Cheaper is not the real issue here, it is the health of the people. Yes it can be cheaper in the short term to eat junk food but what does it do to you in the long term? Think medical bills, aging faster etc. There is absolutely no question that what we put into our bodies affects our health & the big food conglomerates along with the majority of hospitals & doctors want to keep your body in ill health so you keep coming to see them. Most insurance companies including Medicare & Medicaid do not pay for preventative care! That should tell you a lot!

Worming animals just for the sake of doing it is foolishness. I am NOT saying never to do it but we should do it with care & only if necessary. We are not an organic farm here & never make that claim but we do try to be responsible to the land & the animals by breeding hardy animals that can grow & thrive on very limited human interference.

Liz


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## Southdown (Jun 11, 2012)

Well said Cornish.  
I wasn't even looking for that article and when I read it, it was just what I was needing.  We haven't wormed our lambs yet, but they are doing healthy and putting on lots of weight.  I don't see a need right now.  

It certainly isn't cheaper to raise your own food, but it's not all about the money.  It just depends on what is important to you and your priorities.  I want to know what I am putting into my body.  One can eat cheaply, but you will pay for it later.  Certainly in medical problems, such as diabetes type II, hypertension, high cholesterol, etc, etc.  It is definitely unfortunate that preventive health is not covered more, as you say.  Nobody is perfect, but I like to try and make good choices so I won't pay for it in my future (or the future of the planet, for that matter).  Look at our fields, which are now resistant to round-up etc.  Same concept as the antibiotic and worm resistance.  I see a pattern.  Quite frankly, this is depressing.  It's expensive to buy healthy food from co-ops too, but at least you're getting quality food and supporting small, organic farmers.  Or producing your own and hopefully someone will buy local.  I would rather support a small farmer instead of Walmart.  Another good thing about doing your own food is that you get some personal satisfaction from all your hard work.  There is something to be said about doing work with your own two hands.  I love it.


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## Remuda1 (Jun 11, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> > it's not cheaper to raise it yourself, no matter how you look at it.
> 
> 
> I never said it was cheaper to raise it yourself! LOL! Especially pork that does need grain supplementation. Grass fed beef & lamb though can be cheaper.
> ...


Well said! And I agree!


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## WildRoseBeef (Jun 11, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> Thanks Southdown,
> 
> This article makes total sense. It is what is happening in humans too - WAY too much overuse of antibiotics hence the Superbugs. AND if you are eating commercially raised meat from the grocery store then you are most likely feeding yourself antibiotics & goodness know what else! Not a very pleasant thought. If the consumer really woke up to what is going on there would be a *lot* more folks moving to the country raising their own meat.
> 
> ...


Liz, I have to disagree with you here.  It's not the antibiotics in the meat that should be to blame--or heck, in milk and dairy products too--but how we humans make use of pharmaceuticals in such a care-free way that makes it worrisome.  Antibiotics in meat and dairy products are at such low-to-nonexistent levels that they don't really pose any risk, not even enough to create Super-bacteria within our bodies. It's the sub-therapeutic use of antibiotics and other pharmaceuticals to treat chronic illnesses, allergies, etc. that is to worry.  Of course we're seeing these antibiotics being used like this in feeder pigs, poultry and feedlot cattle, with the potential, and the ability of these "Superbugs" to propagate themselves.

But let's go back to the human side of things here.  Pharmaceuticals are not just used to treat diseases, but to be used for recreational purposes or drug trafficing, for chronic illness, pain, allergies or other purposes I can't think of off hand. These pharmaceuticals are often dumped into our waterways and get into our water, and no amount of water treatment can or will remove these drugs.  There was a two-hour show on the Great Lakes (Water something, can't remember the name) that discussed this and its implications on the water we rely on for our sustenance.  It's these pharmaceuticals in the water that can cause problems like superbugs, cancer, kids reaching puberty earlier than normal, birth defects, etc.  

Then you get the hospitals and the problems they have in there with creating Superbugs.  That's even worse!  That's where the other problems lie, because so much equipment and surfaces are cleaned with disinfectants and antimicrobial soaps and that to the point that it promotes the natural selection of bacteria and viruses to become resistant to these chemicals, thus causing problems in patients in these hospitals that are already sick to get even worse and die.

The thing is is that we can blame anything for our problems, but it really comes back to us: we're at fault here. It's so easy to blame commercially- and conventionally-produced meat and milk for causing our health issues and for being responsible for creating superbugs and this and that, but us humans are the ones that have caused these problems.

And of course, it's our responsibility to fix it as much as we can and however we can. 

Of course it's nice to have the ability and make the excuse to raise animals for our own meat and milk, or find some producers that do such a thing, but not everyone is able to do this. There's only so much land in the country that is available for people to live on and raise their own animals on without getting into conflicts with neighbors and existing farmers.  I do know what you're trying to say, and I agree, but I think it would be much safer to say that consumers would be NOT moving to the country to produce their own meat, but to look for more farm families and producers to purchase home-grown, farm-raised, "organically" raised edible animal products from. 



			
				feed grass said:
			
		

> The world evolved from the way it 'used' to be for a reason.
> 
> Not everyone can afford to live on 40 acres and be self sustaining-- actually very few people have the money, the brains, or the work ethic to do so.
> 
> ...


Have to agree with this completely!  With now, 9 billion people in the world there's only so much land that can be had, and I very much doubt that we can get that many people living in the country on 5 or 10 acres to produce their own stock. This is the same thing in North America.  You still need land for growing food crops on, land for wildlife, and there's certainly plenty of land in the world or in any country that's not worth its salt in being able to be used for any type of agriculture. 

With this worming or "global worming" that Southdown brought up in that article problem, the only solution I can think of to battle this problem is not to "[graze] so many animals on a given patch of land [to] discourage transmission," since we all know what that can do to the land and our wallets, but to have more than one species grazing on a piece of land, or rather, graze the land in such a way that it promotes multi-species grazing.  Turning on the tractor or quad and harrowing the pastures also helps too if the former isn't able to be accomplished. This way we CAN, for sure, treat for worms instead of "treat" for worms to prevent it. 

Feed grass, not sure about how land is sold/purchased down in the states, but up here we have to contend with _capital gains_ in the purchase/sale of land. That's something I've only been educated about by my brother, but will have to do more research on it to get more info.


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## Cornish Heritage (Jun 11, 2012)

> Another good thing about doing your own food is that you get some personal satisfaction from all your hard work.  There is something to be said about doing work with your own two hands.


Absolutely  It is hard work but SO worth it. Not only that we are training the next generation how to work hard. Recently we have been picking blackberries & plums - our kids are learning that it is hard work BUT the fruit is free & delicious, not to mention extremely healthy. 

Our kids know who they are eating at dinnertime! Does that psychologically damage them?! No! They are learning a respect for the animals that we raise here & know that when the time comes that animal will have served us well alive & will serve us well dead also. 

Our garden is growing very slowly this year but each time we pick a zucchini, yesterday we got our first cucumber, there is great excitement & everyone savors the few mouthfuls. None of that happens when you just pick one up at the grocery store. 

Liz


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## feed grass (Jun 12, 2012)

My statements are coming from a person who grew up on a 100 cow dairy, and 2500 acre crop farm- with 25 beef cows, 80 ewes, less than 10 milk goats, a litter of hogs, and all kinds of poultry...  Right now, i can say I'm raising quail, Breeder Quality Cornish chickens, Show Quality Ameraucanas, and rabbits for eating-- as well as all the above...  Plus throw in each hunting season...

With that broad of a selection, I still get bored with what's in the freezer from time to time-- and quite honestly, I can't think of any single freezer in America that's more diverse...  It seems that we go in swings-- eat pork pretty solid for a couple of months, then switch to a lamb, then back to beef-- then it's deer season-- and the cycle continues.. it's kinda like the cereal that I eat in the morning-- Two days to a box- solid for a month-- and after 2 months I don't care to look at it ever again...

When I was in college, I both wrote a 14 page research paper against organic farming, then later worked on the University's Organic farm.. and not work for the USDA.. so I've got a pretty good idea of sustainability and the works.  I actually believe, that if we wanted-- our entire family could be self sufficient-- hell even mom makes soap... but IMO-- that's not the best, or healthiest way of life, sorry.  

To my Canadian friend that I invited-- I agree 100% with your statements-- which is why I invited you to this discussion...  Land prices around here are mostly dicated by public auction, and cash rent.  Just a couple of months ago, some river bottom land two counties away sold for 12k plus an acre.  There was some land in Iowa topped the 14k mark a week later.  Because of these prices and the demand-- even for average pasture ground-- I'm a firm believer that it's not cheaper to raise grassfed livestock-- as you and i have already discussed in a prior thread...  Wife and I are very seriously thinking of buying a new place- 400k for basically 40 acres... tell me that's affordable and cheap??


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## Southdown (Jun 12, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> > Another good thing about doing your own food is that you get some personal satisfaction from all your hard work.  There is something to be said about doing work with your own two hands.
> 
> 
> Absolutely  It is hard work but SO worth it. Not only that we are training the next generation how to work hard. Recently we have been picking blackberries & plums - our kids are learning that it is hard work BUT the fruit is free & delicious, not to mention extremely healthy.
> ...


Kids nowadays have no skills.  It's a shame.  I'm trying to learn the old-timey skills myself, haha.


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## Southdown (Jun 12, 2012)

feed grass said:
			
		

> My statements are coming from a person who grew up on a 100 cow dairy, and 2500 acre crop farm- with 25 beef cows, 80 ewes, less than 10 milk goats, a litter of hogs, and all kinds of poultry...  Right now, i can say I'm raising quail, Breeder Quality Cornish chickens, Show Quality Ameraucanas, and rabbits for eating-- as well as all the above...  Plus throw in each hunting season...
> 
> With that broad of a selection, I still get bored with what's in the freezer from time to time-- and quite honestly, I can't think of any single freezer in America that's more diverse...  It seems that we go in swings-- eat pork pretty solid for a couple of months, then switch to a lamb, then back to beef-- then it's deer season-- and the cycle continues.. it's kinda like the cereal that I eat in the morning-- Two days to a box- solid for a month-- and after 2 months I don't care to look at it ever again...
> 
> ...


Land prices are high.  It's 9,000/acre at my place.  It was worth the wait for me (several years of saving) to be able to get a small farm.  If it's your dream, you will make it happen.  But it's not for everyone and it sucks that it's so expensive.  Again, it's about your priorities in life.  Having a farm was priority #1 for us.  Some people live in town with three stall garages and new cars parked inside.  It's all in what you want really.


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## feed grass (Jun 12, 2012)

Southdown said:
			
		

> feed grass said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd rather move back home-- where I'll inherit everything from my parent's, and 1/4 of everything from my grandparent's== only child I am...  but at this point in time, that's not where our jobs are or might be???  Everything I talked about above-- I would get about 3/4's of eventually, free basically...

and hell- probably the most important part-- with our jobs-- we have to spend the money on something- may as well be critters that we can enjoy-- even if they don't make a profit...


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## Cornish Heritage (Jun 12, 2012)

> The thing is is that we can blame anything for our problems, but it really comes back to us: we're at fault here. It's so easy to blame commercially- and conventionally-produced meat and milk for causing our health issues and for being responsible for creating superbugs and this and that, but us humans are the ones that have caused these problems.


Absolutely WildRoseBeef! And conglomerates/pharmaceutical companies are owned by humans most of whom are only concerned about the money they can make. I totally agree that we all need to be responsible. And yes of course not everyone is going to move to the country! I realize that too and if more folks can produce local grown produce etc for city folks to buy that is great. That market is definitely growing but there are also many folks living in the country that are totally unprepared & not using their land to grow anything.



> Again, it's about your priorities in life.  Having a farm was priority #1 for us.  Some people live in town with three stall garages and new cars parked inside.  It's all in what you want really.


Right on Southdown! Everyone is different & if we/you want to make farming/self sufficiency work we/you will. The life we have personally chosen to lead is one of choice. We were not forced into it. We could still be living/working in the rat race but we have chosen not to. 

Farmland does not have to cost $10,000+ an acre but you have to be prepared to move to maybe get what you want. Land down here is $1,000 an acre. more for cropland.

Multiple brand new vehicles? Hah! Those days are long gone & I don't miss them one bit - quite happy to not have any car payments. (We only ever had one car payment & that was more than enough.) The reality of many people's lives is not a happy one. Many. many folks are up to their eyeballs in debt having to work their butts off in order to pay for things they really do not need but think they have to have. It's like a hamster on its wheel - going around & around getting nowhere. 

Liz


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## Southdown (Jun 12, 2012)

On a side note, does anyone know a natural way to treat chicken lice?


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## Cornish Heritage (Jun 12, 2012)

> On a side note, does anyone know a natural way to treat chicken lice?


No! LOL! We give our chickens & all critters big bowls of DE (food grade Diatemaceous Earth) but I don't see the chickens using it very much. They seem to prefer the dirt to bathe in! When we butcher we do notice that they have lice. 

BUT the chickens keep our pigs lice free - never a louse on them which is wonderful. Now what critter can we get to delouse the chickens? Maybe add monkeys to the farm 

Liz


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## feed grass (Jun 13, 2012)

*Farmland does not have to cost $10,000+ an acre but you have to be prepared to move to maybe get what you want. Land down here is $1,000 an acre. more for cropland.
*
Did not know we had someone from a 3rd world country on here...  Show me 1k land- I'm interested to see it.  

If you have to move across the world- what enjoyment would you have from 'owning your own FARM'?  which btw:  What is a farm- 1 acre, 10? 20 plus???


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## Royd Wood (Jun 13, 2012)

feed grass said:
			
		

> Did not know we had someone from a 3rd world country on here...  Show me 1k land- I'm interested to see it.


What ??????????


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## Remuda1 (Jun 13, 2012)

I really enjoy reading ALL of the posts here. The only thing I don't understand is why some folks seem to feel that condescension and superiority are what are going to sway everyone else to their way of thinking. 

BTW, I'm not suggesting you come here.... But there is plenty of $1,000.00 and under land here in Texas. Interestingly though, pasture/crop land goes for less than treed property.


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## WildRoseBeef (Jun 13, 2012)

feed grass said:
			
		

> *Farmland does not have to cost $10,000+ an acre but you have to be prepared to move to maybe get what you want. Land down here is $1,000 an acre. more for cropland.
> *
> Did not know we had someone from a 3rd world country on here...  Show me 1k land- I'm interested to see it.
> 
> If you have to move across the world- what enjoyment would you have from 'owning your own FARM'?  which btw:  What is a farm- 1 acre, 10? 20 plus???


Actually there is land that can go for less than $10 k/acre up here, especially further north than where I live, and Canada ain't a third world country.  Right Royd? 

You mentioned about inheriting land, FG, so apparently you don't have capital gains to worry about when it comes down to inheriting land.  Up here if there's someone who's "within arm's reach" and wants to inherit or buy farmland off a father or mother or some close relative, the government wants a piece of that, and the person buying has to pay capital gains in addition to purchasing the farmland. Then when selling land to someone who is not "within arm's reach" it's the seller that's gotta take a big chunk out of his/her wallet due to capital gains when selling land to a non-relative.  I don't know the exact details of how it all goes and what the floor price is that a person can only sell or buy at, nor do I have enough time this morning to do so, but that's the way things work up here in Canada. I doubt, from the sounds of it, that the US gov't uses capital gains on taxpayers that have to or want to buy or sell land.


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## bonbean01 (Jun 13, 2012)

Remuda, I also have found this an interesting thread and land here also goes higher for treed areas than pasture...we have 6 acres here and with rotational pasture grazing and lime and fertilizer on rested pasture, find that having 10 sheep (that includes lambs) is very doable with enough left over for a large yard, a one acre catfish pond and room for chickens, a large garden and fruit trees.  Not bad I'd say...we do grow much of our food and yes, there is something to doing it with your own hands for sure!!!  I get a huge satisfaction from that and enjoy it...it is hard work.  When we're out there in hot temperatures pitching sheep or chicken poop and sweating, that's not easy...but would not trade any of it to be back in the city working in an office.  We are semi retired and working harder now than when we both worked full time.  Less money, more work, more peace and enjoying life and always thinking of how to improve our little operation all the time.  

Organic growing is something I'm really interested in and do much reading and am finding ways around not using chemicals.  Yesterday I started 20 pounds of sauerkraut ... loaded with probiotics and we happen to love it...and found that the cabbages were only bug damaged on the very outter leaves, leaving the average 7 pound cabbage bug free, juicy and perfect.  Really don't mind the bugs eating the outter leaves I wouldn't use anyway...plus we have a rooster who patrols the cabbage patch just looking for those tasty little worms....LOLOL...to me it is a win=win.

We are all different in our approaches to all of this...and respecting each other and learning different ways of doing things really is interesting...always learning, but I am very stubborn about using chemicals


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## Cornish Heritage (Jun 13, 2012)

> Did not know we had someone from a 3rd world country on here...  Show me 1k land- I'm interested to see it.


Excuse me?! 

As to what size is a farm? Exactly whatever size you choose to make it & can afford! Some folks are doing really well with just a few acres, others have 40+, others are farming on thousands of acres. The size isn't the issue, it's what you do with it that counts. 



> When we're out there in hot temperatures pitching sheep or chicken poop and sweating, that's not easy...but would not trade any of it to be back in the city working in an office.


Love it! Good for you bonbean & I hope you enjoy every spoonful of that sauerkraut  I was out at 6:30am this morning picking blackberries which are absolutely delicious & just canned up some wild plums. Got to go move some cows in a few minutes to fresh pasture.  

Liz


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## Southdown (Jun 13, 2012)

I'm going to look into the diatomaceous earth some more.  I'm going to try it with the chickens and find out more for using it on sheep as a wormer.  

Yes, it's what you do with your land and not how much you have.  My husband's cousin has a small acreage (I believe 7 acres total) and I am just amazed at how much he fits into his property.  He uses the land efficiently and probably gets more done on his plot than on mine.  I'm thinking about how to re-organize our land so that I can be more efficient.


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## elevan (Jun 13, 2012)

We have folks here from many different backgrounds and many different countries around the world.


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## Southdown (Jun 13, 2012)

A variety of people means I can learn more from other people's experiences.


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## feed grass (Jun 13, 2012)

WildRoseBeef said:
			
		

> feed grass said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ya-- we have that...

To those with cheap land prices?  

If you land is cheap-- then what's it's productivity?  Can one acre support one cow's feed for the entire year?  I know those places in Canada especially-- 10 acres can't support one cow for a year.  

So, if you have to have 10x as much land to do the same thing as ground that's worth 10x more---  who's ahead?


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## Royd Wood (Jun 13, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> The size isn't the issue, it's what you do with it that counts.
> 
> Liz


*Now I seem to remember hearing this in a past life*

Its great on my little plot - been mowing hay today, moved cattle yesterday erm chicken poop - that can wait till another day lol


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## Royd Wood (Jun 13, 2012)

WildRoseBeef said:
			
		

> Actually there is land that can go for less than $10 k/acre up here, especially further north than where I live, and Canada ain't a third world country.  Right Royd?


Yep but can be like Siberia


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## Cornish Heritage (Jun 13, 2012)

> chicken poop - that can wait till another day lol


We have SO much chicken poop to move onto our garden this Fall it isn't even funny! BUT I think the garden will do much much better next year with some of that rich fertilizer on it.

Liz


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## WildRoseBeef (Jun 14, 2012)

feed grass said:
			
		

> WildRoseBeef said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Valid point, but I know there's a heck of a lot more to it than that. Land that _appears_ to be far less productive than the land surrounding it will, no doubt, go for less than other land that looks to be more productive or looks to have more value. You know that looks and aesthetics are everything when trying to sell something. A person can buy 10+ acres land that looks like it won't support a cow-calf pair for a year, and turn it into land that _does_.  That's the difference. And of course I know perfectly well too that there's the flip side of the coin, where you can get land that looks like it's really good land, but then when you start working with it it ain't worth a crap. 

And then you get what you mentioned in the scenario: " if you have to have 10x as much land to do the same thing as ground that's worth 10x more---  who's ahead?" We all know it's the latter---the guy that's got land worth 10 times more.  But that doesn't mean that land that's worth ten times more (or have 10 acres able to support 1 cow-calf pair for 1 year versus land that requires 100 acres to support a cow-calf pair for a year) is going to be more expensive!!  Ranch land near the Rockies here in Alberta has land prices that are WAY more expensive than land up here where I live and northwards. Also, Up here, the land is far more productive than the kind of land that's down near the Rockies. We are able to grow good-quality crops and have land supports dairy farming up here, whereas down south you simply cannot raise dairy cattle on the kind of rocky, sandy land that's available....only beef cattle can be put on there.  And which is more expensive? The ranch land. So go figure. 


That's why I believe that it's not all down to productivity of the land that is the judgement of what price a piece of land should or does go for.  The other reason for low prices could be and is due to relative location to urban areas or areas that have a "nice view." Take my example of land near the Rockies with the great view of the mountains, and compare that to the gently rolling landscape boreal-transition zone of around Barrhead-Westlock-Athabasca eastwards to Lloydminster that has no "nice views" like folks down in Southern Alberta near Calgary have.  

However, you go east to Saskatchewan and land prices decrease significantly. There's still the same sort of rocky, sandy soil that's available in southern Alberta as there is in southern Saskatchewan, but you don't get the nice views of the rockies in Saskabush as you do in the Sunshine Province. And of course there, you might find that land that's more productive or that supports wheat/canola/barley farming will go for a wee bit higher than the land that only supports livestock grazing. 

Then of course you get supply/demand: the more demand there is for land, the higher the prices go.    Not much demand for land in Saskabush, plenty of demand for land near the Rockies.


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## redtailgal (Jun 14, 2012)

I am sure that to the person that owns that land, be it 1k an acre or 10k an acre........it's valuable to them.  Different people have different goals and different land needs.  Land here is expensive.........not because its such prime pasture or farm land, but ONLY because people here are willing to pay ridiculous prices, to live in "the fresh country air".  There is high demand for this land, not for farming but for putting up a house with a little white picket fence.

Land in other places may not be in such high demand, and the prices will reflect that.  Productivity ability of the land really has little to do with the price, it's about supply and demand.

Either way, if we were to sell our land, we could ask and get a pretty penny for it.  My friend in Kansas paid very little for her land, and would not get much for it if she decided to sell it, simply because its not a populated area.  Her cattle do wonderful on the land, crops grow nicely, there is plenty of natural water, even a natural gas vein running thru it.  But, its far from a major city, way out in the sticks and no one really wants to build a house there......... And, once acre supports a cow and calf pair quite nicely.

But to her, HER dirt is just as valuable as mine.  It's HERS, she bought it and its her blood sweat and tears that went into it just as mine went into my land.

Feed grass asked "whose ahead?"  The person who has the land that makes the lifestyle they want is ahead, be it 1 acre or 1000 acres.....the monetary value of the land really is a moot point.

Money does not always equal quality.  Those that have land that has a lesser monetary value, do not necessarily have poor or lesser land.  

It bothers me to hear people say things like "my stuff is better than your stuff because it cost more money".  Not only is it derogatory to the other person, its the same as speaking with a puffed up chest and it shows a lack of understanding on what supply and demand does to the prices of commodities. 

People tend to get wrapped up in numbers and statistics to the point that they lose sight of reality, and all to often, they develop a false sense of security when they are on the positive side of those numbers and statistics, making them appear to feel as though they were better than the average Joe.


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## bonbean01 (Jun 14, 2012)

Totally agree Red!!  Our little piece of heaven here is priceless to us.  Wouldn't be to most other people, but to us it is perfect.  Good post putting it all into perspective


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## feed grass (Jun 14, 2012)

for those of you wanting to know how 'productive' your land is-- go to websoilsurvey.com... this is a public access portion of our agency that we promote on a daily basis.. it's a great tool for those of you wanting to know more about your property-- click around on the soils info tabs across the top, and onward-- FYI- for those of you who've never been on here before-- you can spend literally a day on here clicking around.

the soil type, is extremely important.. it will be a good guideline to what the property is really worth, and it will determine how productive your land really can be.

if anyone has any questions on how to interpret something, i can do my best to answer them in a PM or email- it is-- my job...


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## Southdown (Jun 14, 2012)

If you're happy with what you've got, then that's all that matters.  The price tag on the given plot of land is really meaningless in my eyes.  But I do think that if one inherits land, they are probably not going to appreciate their land as much as if they had to work hard and earn it themselves.


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## redtailgal (Jun 14, 2012)

I dont know Southdown.  We inherited ours and I'd fight someone to the death over this land.  My hallway is adorned with pics of the men and the mules that worked it before us.  I appreciate the hard work that the grandfathers and grandmothers put into this dirt, and I am sure that would appreciate the hard work that we are now putting into it.

My tomatoes grow in not only my blood sweat and tears, but those of several generations before me.  They are some mighty sweet tasting maters!


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## feed grass (Jun 14, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> I dont know Southdown.  We inherited ours and I'd fight someone to the death over this land.  My hallway is adorned with pics of the men and the mules that worked it before us.  I appreciate the hard work that the grandfathers and grandmothers put into this dirt, and I am sure that would appreciate the hard work that we are now putting into it.
> 
> My tomatoes grow in not only my blood sweat and tears, but those of several generations before me.  They are some mighty sweet tasting maters!


x2 here... i get tired of those who don't inherit anything-- griping about how gifted we that will are...  Gets old pretty quick...

So what, our parent's and grandparent's worked for something other than fast cars, women, and vacations...

I almost did shoot someone one year in deer season who was trespasser and kept arguing with me about he wasn't trespassing, then wouldn't leave...


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## elevan (Jun 14, 2012)

This topic has veered far enough off course.



> Do's
> * Be friendly and courteous to all members at all times.
> * Respect that people may have a different political, religious, philosophical and cultural background than you.


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