# Best Show bird aka Patriarch Rock Bantam sick



## Poka_Doodle (Dec 17, 2015)

Please help me I am freaking out. My Patriarch Rock Bantam is having a hard time eating, not acting herself, and unable to perch. She is currently in isolation with another show bird in the garage. 
A couple things about the weather just to possibly help are that it has been a cold week and the door has been letting the air into their barn stall during the day


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## frustratedearthmother (Dec 17, 2015)

I've found that heat is the best thing you can do for a sick bird when you don't know anything else to do! 

Found this online:

A supplemental heat source is essential for ill or injured birds. Birds lose body heat very rapidly when ill or injured. Place the sick bird in a warm, humid and dim area with a temperature of 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit. This area should be as quiet and secluded as possible.

Hope she gets better!


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## goatgurl (Dec 17, 2015)

first thing, take a deep breath.  now, stop and think about this, go thru your check list of things it could be or couldn't be.  think of the meds you have available.  and think about the folks that you can call for help.  and what FEM said.  keep her warm and draft free.  hoping she gets better.  keep us updated


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## Poka_Doodle (Dec 17, 2015)

Okay thanks, or vet that is primary dogs and cats said the garage is best with a pal but I will go down stairs and ask about heat


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## BlessedWithGoats (Dec 17, 2015)

I'm sorry to hear this Poka-Doodle!  I hope that your chicken recovers soon!
@Latestarter @Southern by choice @Hens and Roos @HomesteaderWife, do you have any additional information on how to help Poka_Doodle's chicken?


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## Latestarter (Dec 17, 2015)

Hmmm Isn't your dad a vet? I would think he'd be more help than any of us lay folk. 

How old is she? The eating issue and the perching issue I wouldn't think related, unless lack of food has weakened her to that point... Have you felt her crop? is it full? hard? empty? My first thought/concern would be impacted crop. As for the inability to perch... can she walk OK? Is she limping or wandering/falling/unsteady like being drunk when she walks? Can she fly?


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 17, 2015)

What are the other symptoms? 

Listen to her breathing or have your dad listen to her.
Any snot? Runny eyes? Neurological issues? What does her poo look like? Weight?  
Crop- any issues?
Have you ruled out parasites? Both internal and external? 
Look for mites/lice- not many people think about it but when it goes unnoticed they can have these symptoms. Shows if a great place to pick them up at (lice, mites)  

Keep the bird warm. Hard boil some eggs and mix the yolk with some molasses and see if she will eat it. 
Give her some poultry Nutri drench
Electrolytes in the water would be a good idea
Ask your dad if maybe he can give her antibiotics if her thinks she needs it.     

@Latestarter not all vets are good with poultry....Might be fantastic with other critters .....I have had to notify some vets that chickens can't have (fill in the blank drug, etc) and they didn't have a clue. *Not* saying this is the case Poka's dad.........


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## Poka_Doodle (Dec 17, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> Hmmm Isn't your dad a vet? I would think he'd be more help than any of us lay folk.
> 
> How old is she? The eating issue and the perching issue I wouldn't think related, unless lack of food has weakened her to that point... Have you felt her crop? is it full? hard? empty? My first thought/concern would be impacted crop. As for the inability to perch... can she walk OK? Is she limping or wandering/falling/unsteady like being drunk when she walks? Can she fly?


 Actually that is a concern, my dad just said to isolate her with a friend.


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## Poka_Doodle (Dec 17, 2015)

Goat Whisperer said:


> What are the other symptoms?
> 
> Listen to her breathing or have your dad listen to her.
> Any snot? Runny eyes? Neurological issues? What does her poo look like? Weight?
> ...


Okay, do you think it is okay if her friend has the electrolights?


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## Latestarter (Dec 17, 2015)

Electrolytes won't hurt any bird, so by all means...


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## Poka_Doodle (Dec 17, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> Electrolytes won't hurt any bird, so by all means...


Okay, thank you the vet it out and about so I will see if I can tomorrow morning


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## Poka_Doodle (Dec 18, 2015)

I think she will get electrolytes tonight. My dad thought she looked good, although to me she looked like she was not doing well


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## Southern by choice (Dec 18, 2015)

@Goat Whisperer  's list is comprehensive.

I would be checking for mites/lice as this causes anemia and makes a bird very week as well as you have temp drop.

The black is a symptom of ILT.

What are ALL the symptoms?


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## Hens and Roos (Dec 18, 2015)

sorry to hear that your girl isn't feeling well.  Not sure I can add anything that the others haven't!


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## HomesteaderWife (Dec 18, 2015)

I scanned this over briefly and I don't think I saw this mentioned but coccidia may be an issue.

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/coccidiosis-how-to-treat-it

I had a rescue hen that had it and she was miserable for awhile. It was diagnosed through a fecal sample by a veterinarian after noticing she was very lethargic and had bloody stool. If it is in fact coccidia you want to get it treated right away. Just wanted to put this thought out there and hope it helps and that the chicken gets better.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 18, 2015)

How is the bird today?


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## Poka_Doodle (Dec 18, 2015)

Goat Whisperer said:


> How is the bird today?


Good enough to be with friends. I actually think it is my older girls that are getting her bad. I will have to see tomorrow when I get home


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## Poka_Doodle (Dec 18, 2015)

Yep, annoying speckled naked neck. And probably the other big hens, I leave tonight to ski tomorrow. I am planning on  separating the birds in Sunday


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## Poka_Doodle (Jan 1, 2016)

So, to me today she has passed. Physically she hasn't, but my dad has said it is likely Cancer. I am letting her live a bit longer to see if she will make it, but I don't think unless something changes REAL soon she won't show at the end of this month.

It is hard to realize that she is my second amazing show bird to go in the past four months


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 1, 2016)

Is she skinny? 

I know you mentioned another chicken being thin.


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## Poka_Doodle (Jan 1, 2016)

Yes, but her Crop is full and she eats a lot.

Was that the D'Uccle? Not sure exactly what she had but the cure was time


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 1, 2016)

I don't know what chicken it was, I just remember you mentioning thin chickens several times.

I would be looking for parasites. Both internal and external. (So, worms, cocci, mites, lice) You cannot see most worms by looking at the poo with the naked eye (you would need a microscope) and mites are hard to detect as you cannot see most mites. You can see lice.

These can cause the bird to become lethargic, lose weight, and death. We have a friend who called once crying because her chicken was slowly dying.....Asked some more questions and figured out it was mites. Most people don't give it much thought but it can be a huge issue. Your birds are very prone to it because you show. Nothing is wrong with you showing so don't take it that way.

Most folks don't realize it is in their flock until they have lost several birds.

How are the other chickens? Are they acting okay? Are they thin too?

Do they have feed available at all times?


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## Poka_Doodle (Jan 1, 2016)

My others are well, they are acting funny but well. They all seem to be normal weight for their size. The first sign that came again was that she was walking funny. We will check her for mites when we get home on Sunday


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 1, 2016)

What do you mean by the others acting funny? Are they fluffed up and lethargic? The chickens that died- did they look like they could be anemic? Ask your dad what he thinks.

You may have a disease running thru the flock, again its something that show chickens cannot avoid.


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## HomesteaderWife (Jan 1, 2016)

My best wishes to you hun, and I hate that your chicken is going through such a rough time. Please keep us updated.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2016)

Poka_Doodle said:


> The first sign that came again was that she was walking funny.



If you stare just at ONE FOOT - keep yout eye on that foot only... when she walks are the toes rigid- straight out? Normal a chicken has a gentle bend and up.... when the toe stays straight and the walk is funny that is a symptom associated with MG-
It is not listed as a symptom however.... there are 37 (possibly more) strains of MG... this is found in a very virulent  strain.

Now the other side of that is the bird would be showing respiratory.

It would be much more helpful and we all could be more helpful if you could be very specific on symptoms. I notice in your threads several people ask questions that could really be a help and you don't answer them. Not a criticism, I know how easy it is to get distracted.  

There are so many Poultry diseases but being able to narrow it down is impossible without good info.
At this point you really should send in 2 birds to your state lab (most will take them live- take in a sick bird and one that is getting sick) have them necropsied for an accurate diagnosis. Most state labs charge $10-20 for up to a certain # of birds.

Your flock is infected with a disease and you need to know what it is. With a few symptoms you have given it could be anything from Fowl Cholera, to Lymphoid Leukosis, Mareks....

I run a large poultry farm so I know how wonderful chickens are and it is hard to see anyone struggling with loss in their flock. I hope you can get to the root of this Poka Doodle. So sad.
Keeping you in my thoughts sweetie! 

Your state lab for Avian Diagnostics- Maybe give them a call.
http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/vdl/avian-diagnostics/Pages/default.aspx


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## Poka_Doodle (Jan 2, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> What do you mean by the others acting funny? Are they fluffed up and lethargic? The chickens that died- did they look like they could be anemic? Ask your dad what he thinks.
> 
> You may have a disease running thru the flock, again its something that show chickens cannot avoid.


The others are just doing silly normal chicken things. I'm not sure it is a complete flock thing, not to say it isn't. But the birds I have lost showed different signs. Also, my last one I lost was Halloween which wouldn't explain a flock thing. Not sure if the last one had a necropsy, but the one in the summer came up with heat stroke.



HomesteaderWife said:


> My best wishes to you hun, and I hate that your chicken is going through such a rough time. Please keep us updated.


Thanks. It is a little hard to keep updated with the fact I am gone each weekend, but I will do my best.


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## Poka_Doodle (Jan 2, 2016)

And southern, I didn't do a recent necropsy but I have had them done in the past, thing is in order for me to get it done the way I do paying nothing the bird has to be dead. Otherwise I have to go two hours away.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 2, 2016)

Poka_Doodle said:


> And southern, I didn't do a recent necropsy but I have had them done in the past, thing is in order for me to get it done the way I do paying nothing the bird has to be dead. Otherwise I have to go two hours away.


A regular vet not only does not have the testing equipment or tests but are not generally avian specialist. If the bird dies put on ice and drive 2 hours to get it done. We all do this, it is part of owning goats, poultry, sheep etc.... when something like this is going on where you have bizarre sicknesses and deaths occurring. If it were 1 bird then no of course not. 


Poka_Doodle said:


> Also, my last one I lost was Halloween which wouldn't explain a flock thing.


It actually is indicative of a flock issue as your symptoms have varied and you have had progression of illness. 
Lymphoid Leukosis-Has an incubation period of 4 months,
Mycoplasma Synoviae (MS)- has all symptoms you mention and also has a long incubation... it is triggered randomly more often than not.

Any NPIP tester will tell you that show birds have a very high risk of being infected because judges are going bird to bird... there is no bio-security in poultry shows. Many illnesses can be transferred horizontally by dust and feather dander alone.  This is why breeders put the birds on Tylan or another antibiotic for 10-14 days after returning home from a show. The issue is antibiotics generally give relief of certain symptom but DOES NOT eradicate the disease. It is treating the actual secondary infection.

 I hope your birds get better.


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## Poka_Doodle (Jan 2, 2016)

Thanks. I could have seen how the disease would be from a show. I just am not understanding the fact that it could be something from show but I haven't showed since the end of July.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 2, 2016)

Because many poultry diseases are already "in" the bird. Some diseases are vertically transmitted, others horizontally transmitted. Many diseases are asymptomatic meaning the disease is there but there are no symptoms YET. Many require a trigger. Triggers can be travel stress, show stress, abrupt temp changes, severe storms that come through like tornado, hurricane etc.

Because MG is *worldwide* and it is in anywhere from 70-90 % of all exhibition flocks (this category includes backyard poultry) the chances are you and everyone you know has this... but until a trigger- you as well as everyone else thinks their flock is clean.
You can quarantine do all the right things but you may have had birds for 2 years with nothing and never step foot off property, never show, never add in but a trigger causes an outbreak... 
Unless you test for certain things you do not know wether you are or not... Truthfully it is not advantageous to be on any of the "extra" programs NPIP offers. Many disease will cause your flock to be quarantined with fines in the thousands if birds leave the property. Regular NPIP oly test for 2 things in which have really already been eradicated. So if some says they are NPIP and are "tested for everything" they really have no clue what NPIP does and have no clue about what their birds are actually tested for, because NPIP *DOES NOT* test "FOR EVERYTHING".
We take many calls about MG trying to help others restart a flock and teach how to eradicate disease from hatching eggs etc. We get the call after Department of Agriculture has found this reportable disease, people are devastated don't know what to do don't want the disease to spread but are heartbroken. How to properly clean, burn, disinfect, how to understand what can and can not be eradicated through hatching eggs by treatments. 

You have fungal issues... the list is long. That is why I feel it is best to sacrifice a bird that is already ill and get a diagnosis. 
There are many poultry illnesses. Some viral, some bacterial, respiratory, non-respiratory etc.

Poka let me tell you, over the years I have made the acquaintance of many poultry enthusiasts. Every year I get calls about there are a few "sick" birds... every year .... and every year I hear people say "I have never had an issue before... I have never had a bad hatch before... the list goes on... the sad thing is THEY DO have issues every year, they do have a bad hatch they do have birds that die yet all always say the same thing ... this has never happened before. If I am close to the person I will tell them... actually you have, last year blah blah blah happened, and the year before blah blah blah happened... it is like they either forget or can't face it I'm not sure. If they are not close I usually don't say much. Denial is a big thing in the bird world.
I have ad show breeders tell me I was horrible for encouraging people to eradicate diseased flocks and start over. Had one cuss me out. My response was... "so you sell hatching eggs and chicks KNOWING you have this rampant devastating disease and you are ok with that... just throw them on antibiotics all the time right?" Breeders response- it's no big deal.

I am of the opinion it is a big deal... why do I want my birds going on antibiotics, why do I want to have to pitch eggs, what about the carcass in the end...


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## Poka_Doodle (Jan 2, 2016)

Okay, thanks Southern. So, I'm in question were to go from here. Is there a thing I could do?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 2, 2016)

Yes, I will pm you.


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