# should I pull the kid????



## heathen (Dec 31, 2012)

Ok Penny is a Nigerian dwarf. I thought she was bred but she never made a bag. She kided a bit ago and one still born billy one alive but prolly not for long. I am out of kid saver but I did make another goat that had babies this morning let him nurse. She wont accept it but she lets me hold the baby and her head and him nurse. Anyway Penny the birth mother didnt make a bag but when I try to milk her a little milk comes out so I put the baby on the nipple and he sucks and then stops. So I try to milk again and no milk then about 15 minutes later she will have milk again. I have never hadNigerians but so much for being great milkers. I a m going to go down the road and see if they have any kid saver and artificial clostrum. Is there a chance she will make more milk she is 6 years old has kidded lots of times was used for milking and had lots of milk I let her dry up  before we bred her. She is on purina goat chow sweet mix. Hay and free range on pasutre though there aint any right now but she still has lots of hay and some grain. So my question is why would she not make milk?  She has had some pasty stool but no fever or anything. The old owner has said she has never had her do this before maybe its the food. She just fed sweet feed from TSC not the goat feed. Thanks for any sugestioins guesee im off to go get milk.


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## Catahoula (Dec 31, 2012)

Since the baby had some milk (assuming some colostrum) from the other mom, it may be ok to feed him plain whole cow milk (warmed up). I would mix some goat milk and cow milk initially to feed the new kid.  I would think if you keep milking the mom, she would start producing more milk too.  Hope others will have more ideas.


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## heathen (Dec 31, 2012)

Has anyone had a goat not make milk? I have never had this happen never herd of it. she is only 6 so  not to old to kid. Though If I keep the Nigerians I will not be breeding her again. Thanks for the input  I have the kid saver its powder but its what I usually use with kids. When I did the whole milk thing and I only did it once that baby didnt do well. I didnt mix it and it was years ago that I done it. Ok gona go give a bottle Wish me luck Will get pics up later. Thanks again


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 31, 2012)

I had a doe do this, and she did it every year,  She came into milk on the 3rd day.  her daughter did the same thing so we culled the entire bloodline, She was a saanen Boer Cross.


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## heathen (Dec 31, 2012)

Awsome I have 2 of her daughters that should be kidding sometime in the next 3 months. Thanks 20


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## julierx1 (Dec 31, 2012)

Im sorta having the same problems here. And I have the same questions. I have 2 pygmies that have never had trouble raising their kids for the last 2 yrs. This yr. the one that normally has twins had single birth and the one that has single birth had twins. Both does did great up until kids were about 5 weeks old and it's all I can do to get milk from either.  I really wouldnt know where to begin to figure out Why or how this happens.  Hope all goes well for ya


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## heathen (Dec 31, 2012)

I have been researching this and Grandpa said to add salt to there diet. He said "She prolly just needs to drink more water put a heater in the tank add salt to there diet and give them more alfalfa. I was also told by a wonderfull lady on here to add more Calcium to there diet. None of the girls made big milk bags like last year. Last year same food was given and they had bags for 2 months before they kided andI kept saying it cant get any bigger they are leaking already but sure enough they got bigger. I figure I will try anything. I give alfalfa pellets  free choice but I will buy a calcium tub or block or something and put it out. Every time I think I have goats figured out they do something  I would have never thought they would.


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## meme (Dec 31, 2012)

I would be careful with salt, like most mammals, goats really love salt and tend to skip out on their loose minerals. I don't really see how drinking more water would be helpful, but I am new to all of this.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Dec 31, 2012)

heathen said:
			
		

> I have been researching this and Grandpa said to add salt to there diet. He said "She prolly just needs to drink more water put a heater in the tank add salt to there diet and give them more alfalfa. I was also told by a wonderfull lady on here to add more Calcium to there diet. None of the girls made big milk bags like last year. Last year same food was given and they had bags for 2 months before they kided andI kept saying it cant get any bigger they are leaking already but sure enough they got bigger. I figure I will try anything. I give alfalfa pellets  free choice but I will buy a calcium tub or block or something and put it out. Every time I think I have goats figured out they do something  I would have never thought they would.


Do NOT give salt. Give only free choice mineral. If they have too much salt it overtakes too many things in their diet and they will not get all they need. A good mineral with 10-12% salt is fine for them. No more than that and NEVER a salt lick.


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## heathen (Dec 31, 2012)

Well maybe thats the problem then I have had a salt and goat mineral block out since June. I thought all livestock needed a saltblock in the summer we always had them in the summers back home. I just didnt take it out. thanks Kiko I will def take it out. The little man has drank8 ounces of milk plus what he gets when I let him nurse Megan and his mom is trying to make him nurse her but she cant figure out why he aint.  I had to put a divider up in the stall they are both in because she decided to take both babies and she dont even have enough milk for one. Megan is unsure if she should let him nurse also or not and I dont really think she has enough milk yet for both. Megans little boy drinks a lot and is huge compared to his half bro and his mom. He keeps trying to get the other baby to play but he is still haveing trouble standing for some reason. I am pretty sure that they were premature but I am not sure how to tell if he is or not. He still has trouble standing his hooves are still really soft and he has a soft spot on his head. I am gona have to make him a little football helmet to play in lol. We so have to name them soon.  Ok Off to bed for a few.


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## Lamancha Acres Dairy Goat (Jan 1, 2013)

We have used a selinium block, a slat block and loose minerals for about 3 years now and all of the goats look even healthier than before. We had a doe that was low on salt and selinium so the vet suggested both of the blocks. We feed alfalfa twice a day in the winter and once in the summer, free fed minerals, grain/all in one/ beet pulp mix when they get their feet trimmed and occaionally (for treats) these horse treats that they adore, raisins, vanilla wafers, or any friuts.


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## heathen (Jan 1, 2013)

So the little guy is nurseing mom what little milk she makes and  I make Megan let him nurse I had to seperate Penny and Megan. And I am giving him a bottle Penny is trying to be a good mother and its not that much trouble to walk out to the shed I have heat lamps on them. They can get under it or away from it as they see fit. But I have this feeling that I should pull the kid bring it in and tend to it because it is so small. I am convinved it is a premature babie his tummy never gets tight even after all the nurseing we  are doing his mom makes him get up and move around when he is trying to sleep. I have a spot set up for this in the house but I think he should be raised with his mom so he knows he is a goat. ( I have a habbit of makeing goats think they are dogs) They like popcorn and the rockin chair in front of the tv usually on animal planet lol.


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## ksj0225 (Jan 1, 2013)

1st ideal - mom nursing
2nd ideal - you bottle feeding and mom taking care of baby
last choice - baby comes inside


That's how me run things.  If the kid is warm enought leave it outside and bring it bottles and let mom take care of it.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 1, 2013)

heathen said:
			
		

> Awsome I have 2 of her daughters that should be kidding sometime in the next 3 months. Thanks 20


I guess the question is, did she kid on time and not have a bag or did she kid early?  You said one was born dead and the other  didn't look great.


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## heathen (Jan 1, 2013)

Well I talked to the old owner again. And she said she has never done this and that the little billy that lived is tiny. He is smaller than the last 2 sets of triplets she had. So I think she had them early. I dont know what I did wrong no one else went early and all the other babies and mommies are fine. Since she has started kind of makeing a bag it is getting bigger as the baby is nurseing her so I think they were premature. His nose isnt shaped correctly either he has a bull nose instead of a goat nose. The swirls that usually have hair on them where he will have horns is balled also. His hooves are still softer than they should be. He is eating well but his little belly does not fill up like the rest of the babies he acts like he gets tired of sucking. He will actually just smack his lips for me to put the bottle in his mouth instead of fighting me over it or searching for it. We are considering keeping him maybe weathering him or useing him on unrelated goats if he lives. He is a fighter for sure but something is just off about him.  I have taken prematures before and raised them in the house and they grew to full size adult goats and done fine but I have always pulled them to the house for TLC. This is a first for letting moma raise it. Oh well whats that saying kay sara sara.?


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## heathen (Jan 2, 2013)

I am such a bad goat owner!!! Ok so I had done everything I could to get Penny to stopp pooping pudding. I could not figure out what on earth was going on. I had wormed her gave a couple shots. I even gave some Vitamin boosters. As I was feeding the little billy who still don't have a name it hit me. I checked her eyes just to be sure she wasnt wormy and bahm WHITE EYEs. So I wormed her again. She has been passing dead worms large enough for me to see the white in her poop and is makeing a bag. I also used the CAL MAG as suggested but I think the main issue was the worm over load. So Tommorow everyone will get rewormed!!! I cant believe I was so stupid as to not recheck after I wormed. I know she got the correct dosage of Cydectin and I done it all myself. But I had forgoten that we held a couple goats for a friend  that were wormed the week before they came here. About 5 days after they were here was when the pooding poop started. OMG bad goat dady The good news is that the baby is haveing his momies milk more often now the bad news is I dont know if He is getting enough from her or if i should still do the bottle thing. I am giving him the medicated save a kid formula  and have ben doing it every 2 to 4 hours because he just doesnt seem to eat enough. I am now thinking that he is not eating much of the bottle because mom is makeing milk he only ate about 6 oz in 24 hours.  Thanks again everyone for all your help and lesson learned. Everyone should be wormed again anyhow because of kidding i was kind of holding off a couple weeks to have some size on the babies. I know the milk is not supposed to be bad for the babies but if people shouldnt drink it it probably isnt the best for a newborn.


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## julierx1 (Jan 2, 2013)

I feel for ya! Im having one problem after another here this year. I had a doe deliver 2 twin girls last night. They were both very very small but seemed to make it thru the night just fine. Found the smallest of the 2  earlier today laying in the pen colder than normal and the other just a little later.  SO now I have both in the house.It seems as if because they are so tiny, they are having trouble keeping their temps up!!  Im still questioning mom's milk production, but she was trying her best to get them to eat when I was there.  Their temps have come from about 89 degree to 98 with alot  of work.  They now have sock sweaters and a place in my living room on the heat vent!!  Im getting just shy of 1 ounce of Save A kid Colostrum into them every 1  1/2 hrs. I just hope that is enough!  My plan is to take them out to mom during the day a bit to try and nurse but I dont want them to get sick because of the temp. changes.  These amounts are no where near what I read on the internet but Im barely getting that into them!  Good luck with ur babies!!


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## Bedste (Jan 2, 2013)

I plan on making this recipe and mixing it half and half with goat milk and then adding less and less goat milk till they are 100% on this formula suggested from Donna



			
				Renegade said:
			
		

> We have raised a few bottle babies and found the best recipe to be:
> 
> 1 gallon whole milk
> 1 12 oz. can evaporated milk
> ...


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## heathen (Jan 2, 2013)

I was given the same formula and it seems alot of people use that. I have had good luck with the save a kid. I buy the medicated so that I dont have to fight the scours as bad. I mix it the same every time. I have tried mixing the whole cows milk and had scour after scour. Good luck it seems like everyone has there own opinion and prefrence on what to feed a bottle baby.


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## babsbag (Jan 2, 2013)

I feed my bottle babies whole (not low fat or non fat) cows milk from the grocery store. That is it, no additives. Of course, this is after the first 24 hours; during that time I have been fortunate to have thier moms avaiable for the much needed colostrum.

I warm the milk for them, especially when they are babies.


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## julierx1 (Jan 3, 2013)

I have a bottle baby here in the house that has been on the Save A kid colostrum . She was 24 hrs old last night. May have had a little of mom's coclstrum before pulling her.  My question is... Im only getting about 1/2 - 1 ounce in her every 1 1/2 hrs.  Using a syringe. She does suck a little but not enough to use a bottle continuos.  I would like to start switching her over to whole cow's milk but should i wait longer?  She had a bit of scours last night and has had sulmet and pepto. Not sure how many times to treat w/ each of these but I have had good luck w/ cow's milk


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## heathen (Jan 3, 2013)

I would create a new thread and ask about it.  I have not had one scour that fast. I use bottled water instead of tap water she should have pasty poop still brwn or black color if she was only 24 hours old. its about like  gray pupon mustard in thicknes and similar in color without the black specks lol.  My colostrum supplement says to give it for 2 days. I have seen but not had any experiece yet that tractor supply has a tube of colostrum for goat  you dial the dost and squirt it in there mouth. Babies dont nurse alot at a time at first. They hit for a few seconds rest hit it again rest. The package should have about how much they eat at a time. You also have to find the correct type of nipple. Lots of people on here sugest prichard nipples they are red with I think a yello cap that screws on a pop bottle. I personally use the black lambing nipples thats what I grew up useing and like them the best. I use a a small nail and put in the tip to make sure that the milk can flow when the kid nibles and suck on it. I also use a small glass bottle instead of  a plastic pop bottle.  I think she may be getting to much love if she is eating that much every 1 1/2 to 2 hours. My package says that they should get  16 total ounces in a day for standard goats and 8 for pygmy nd goats. I dont know if you have a big or little goat.  I would go get the medicated scour milk replacer. Pepto wont kill bacteria if ther is any in the babies belly.  Pepto is more for if they have had a feed to sweet to green or something along that line. If you used tap water or well water there could be something in the belly.  I am sure others will have a lot more input and opinion if you post a new topic though.


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## heathen (Jan 5, 2013)

Ok so its 40 out today I thought Penny should get out get some exercise. I put her and the little guy outside in the goat lot fed watered them the dogs the chickens the guineas started to pull nails out of some used lumber when I notices penny was off without her baby. Ough He was standing on the hill side back arched shaking like a leaf in a huricane so I brought him in. His temp is normal he just keept shaking. He is asleep in my lap right now not shaking I think I am going to pull him today. Should i still take him out to his mom ( whom never made what i would call a milk bag her uder is no biger than a horse fly bite) OR should I just pull him completly what way is less stressfull? He dont seem to care his mom aint with him. And she aint even yelling for him yet.    Well he just got woke up Nyla decided he should have a bath lol. He is not shaking anymore but now how do I do this pulling off of moma? I thought about keeping him inside and bringing him out to nurse her 3 or 4 times a day plus the bottle. But how do I tell if he is getting enough milk that way?


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## julierx1 (Jan 5, 2013)

I tried this also at first. Letting a couple of mine out to nurse mom a few times. But i had the same problem, thought they were getting enough but their health just kept getting worse. I ended up just keeping her inside and bottle feeding. Now I know what she gets.  Now I dont know what the temp outside needs to be so I can take her out and not make her sick.


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## babsbag (Jan 6, 2013)

What kind of cats are those in your picture...I want one


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Jan 6, 2013)

Love the pics.


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## ksj0225 (Jan 6, 2013)

Pull, not being able to contain his heat is a reason to pull him.  I had to pull one last year for that reason.  During the warmest parts of the day I would but a modified dog sweater on him and take him out in the pasture.  Of course I have LGD that I could give him to and say "watch him" and she would...


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## heathen (Jan 6, 2013)

The Cat is a Bengal Nyla and her baby Fizzy. Fizzy goes to her new home tommorow and was jelous that Nyla was cleaning the baby goat. She ever cleaned his butt lol. They have a pelt like a wild animal. They are more dog like than cat like they fetch can be taught tricks very easily. Mine sit Highfive fetch know there names and love to discover new rooms lol. We have rooms with closed doors because they LOVE TO BREAK STUFF.  They play tugawar with the dogs and there toys lol.


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## Fluffygal (Jan 6, 2013)

Thats cool. We had a mixed cat that would play fetch. First cat my Dad became attached to as he is a dog person.
Maybe she wants to be a LGC for the baby goat.


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## heathen (Jan 6, 2013)

LOL no that would be Trinity our exotic short hair. She is the BOSS dont matter if a person is yelling or the dogs or another cat is in a fight she will warn you and if you dont listen or put her in a kennel or room she will whoop the thunder out of you. I have been in yelling matches with the other half or yellin at the kid for doing something a kid does. ( not paying attention and knocking his drink all over the brand new rug. Leaving his hat in the goat lot lol.) She is swift to reming me that yelling dont solve anything!!! lol 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







 her royal majesty Trinity Alex named her after his girlfriend that moved to Florida so he could always remember  her lol he was 5.


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## Fluffygal (Jan 6, 2013)

Cats always rule the house.  
She is pretty.


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## Mamaboid (Jan 7, 2013)

We own our dogs, our cats own us.  Gotta love it.


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