# In need of a guardian, but which one?



## GraysGardens (Oct 1, 2011)

This summer i have lost 3 sheep 1 goat and 5 chickens . There are coyotes, foxes, skunks, opossums, and snakes around our place but they aren't the problem. The problem is domesticated dogs and the irresponsible owners who let them roam free. I need a guard animal that will keep out dogs as well as the other critters if they happen to come around, but not try to kill my little dachshund. Anyone have any thoughts on what animal/dog breed would be best for this situation? I was thinking a dog would be the most competent ( and less temperamental than a donkey)  but I'm kind of scared to get one as I don't know how to train a LGD and my only big dog experience was with my husband's Great Dane that had a horrible adolescent stage and dominance issues with me and I couldn't train him, but I'm willing to learn how to train an LGD and I trained my weenie dog(very well behaved dog) but i realize there is a lot of difference between the two.

Also does anyone have any experience with sarplaninac dogs?



                                                                                          Thanx


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## elevan (Oct 1, 2011)

I'm gonna say an LGD is gonna be best for you.  A llama would stomp your little dog to death and a donkey might too.  A dog would be more easily trained to accept your little dog and deter any strange dogs.


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## Ms. Research (Oct 1, 2011)

I have to agree with Elevan regarding getting a dog.

My suggestion is start calling around for breeders of LGD.  There's a thread about LGD's on this forum.  Look at their examples. Then talk to the breeders and let them know what your issues are at your farm and that you are experienced somewhat with larger breeds.  Believe me if you can teach a Dachshund to mind, you can teach a big dog.   I had issues with my Kuvacz when he was in his teens, but it all worked out.   Though I wasn't training for LGD, there are others out there who do.  

Start googling.  People who allow their dogs to run will never change.  Only you can change the situation.  Good Luck. 


On my Livestock Adventure list in BIG letters is acquiring another Kuvacz.  My other two were Great People Protectors, can't wait to see how they are with livestock.


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## Ms. Research (Oct 1, 2011)

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=13288

Discussion on sarplaninac dogs


http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=12958

Discussion on problem with domesticated dogs and getting an LGD



http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=11707&p=1

Thread on LGD's


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## ksj0225 (Oct 1, 2011)

Where are you located we might know somewhere close to you with good LGD's...


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## 77Herford (Oct 1, 2011)

Many large breed dogs are rather family friendly if you get them young and if they grow up with the animals with protect them with their lives.
My Shepherds didn't grow up with animals at first but they are trained guard dogs and will follow my commands.


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## GraysGardens (Oct 1, 2011)

I'm in South Central Oklahoma .

I did some searching and found a few breeders of GPs, Sarplaninac, Anatolian and Australian shepherds, and read up on them but I still don't know which to get, I'm just afraid I will get an LGD with little instinct or  I won't be able to train it and end up having a useless animal hanging around....................or worse having one that won't mind or roams and then i'm the bad dog owner .


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## 77Herford (Oct 1, 2011)

Well I hope your pasture is fenced, the dog would stay in the pasture with the livestock.  I will probably be getting a Livestock guardian as I just purchased a flock of sheep and we have coyotes.  Right now we have a very good llama with the flock so I might change my mind.


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## Roll farms (Oct 2, 2011)

We used a llama as a guardian.  But he wouldn't protect our chickens from opossum / weasel attacks and at the time the chickens were are main focus.  We got an LGD puppy and the llama tried to kill it....repeatedly.  He would NOT accept that dog.  So we rehomed the llama, kept the dog (and got more) and haven't lost anything to idiot neighbor's dogs / yotes / varmints in years.

A pup won't do much for you, you need a guardian NOW, not a puppy.  Plus, puppies require nearly 2 yrs to get all of their 'play' out of their systems.

Try to buy an established LGD.  A lot of folks are selling out of goats (feed / hay prices going up, drought, etc.) and have LGD they no longer need.
If you have to get a young one, try to get one that's around 6 mos. old (then they will be big enough to start 'working', at least).

If you get an LGD from a working farm / ranch, your odds of getting one who will guard increase tremendously.  I've seen / spoken to a LOT of working LGD breeders and only know of one who wanted to be a pet, not an employee.   An animal raised in the house / bonded to humans is less likely to make a model guardian.

Good LGDs don't need 'trained' - what they do is instinctive.  They *do* need guidance and to be shown what is / is NOT acceptable behavior - no chicken chasing, digging, etc.
Lots of chew toys / rope toys / etc. for young ones will help keep them out of trouble....a little.

NEVER leave any LGD under 2 w/ baby anythings - until that point, they are puppies, and puppies play w/ their 'littermates' - be it a baby goat or a baby chick....and they don't understand that the babies can't yelp and let them know they've had enough / are being too rough.

We pen our young LGD away from the kids, usually the barking / scent marking / presence of an LGD will ward off dogs and anything not starving / desperate, even if they can't get to every inch of the protection area.

I'm not a fan of donkeys, although some folks have great luck w/ them.  A donkey that stomps ANYTHING new in it's protection area can't be 'taught' not to...and I have friends who've lost lambs, kids, chicks, and pet dogs to them.
The only people I know who've lost kids / chickens to dogs....left them unsupervised w/ a young LGD, despite being told not to.

As far as breeds, I have experience w/ Pyrs and Anatolians.  There are no rules, as personalities can vary amoung individuals, but I prefer the pyr personality and the Anatolian coat - less matting.  I really, really like our Pyr x Anatolian cross - the best of both worlds.

And regardless of what you get - get them fixed.  An intact LGD can't focus on it's JOB if it's worrying about breeding.  It will not hurt their guarding instinct one bit to spay / neuter them, and will make a much better LGD.


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## GraysGardens (Oct 2, 2011)

Thanks everyone, y'all have been most helpful.


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## watchdogps (Oct 6, 2011)

GraysGardens said:
			
		

> I'm in South Central Oklahoma .
> 
> I did some searching and found a few breeders of GPs, Sarplaninac, Anatolian and Australian shepherds, and read up on them but I still don't know which to get, I'm just afraid I will get an LGD with little instinct or  I won't be able to train it and end up having a useless animal hanging around....................or worse having one that won't mind or roams and then i'm the bad dog owner .


There are working LGD "breeders" who really have no idea what they are doing, they just assume since the breed is an LGD, and it's been "born in the barn", it will be a good LGD, so your worry is justified. Conversly, there are LGD breeders without livestock who can select an excellent working dog for you. Since you are new, and won't know what to look for in a puppy, you need to ask questions of the breeder. One that I feel is critical is "What behavior/traits do you look for when selecting a pup for a working home?" A breeder who actually knows behavior will be able to answer that question and will admit that there may be some dogs that are not the best candidates. They should be able to say "well, I look for a pup that does x" etc. if they simply say, oh they are all great, move on. 

Roll Farms mentioned adults, and yes there are lots of LGDs being given up due to farm downsizing/closings. Check with rescue - www.asdrl.org 
Finally, if you get one, dont come home and dump them in with your animals. Keep them separate for a while, and work on YOUR relationship with the dog. A good relationship with your LGD, one where they trust you, will aid greatly in their listening to you regarding the animals, etc. If you are a stranger, the dog has no reason to follow your guidance.


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## manybirds (Oct 6, 2011)

if i got one i would get a llama but i don't have experiance with guardians


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