# Where to buy, what to buy, where to start?



## Pearce Pastures (Sep 18, 2012)

Well, we are getting more serious about raising our own beef and I have spent a few hours looking up breeds, trying to figure out where and what to get and I am just more confused.

I started out looking into the Black Baldie per Symphony and they sound great but I haven't found any around us yet and the ones I did find were mature bulls and they seem to be very expensive (not that I would think I would want a mature bull obviously).  So then I looked up Angus and Hereford but I still am not sure about what I am looking for as far as breed, age, and whatnot.

So first, what would you all recommend for a newbie as far as breed and age?  

Do cattle need to have a buddy, like goats, so that they are happy?

We would have 8 acres of pasture...is that enough?

Where do you find cattle for sale and what should I expect to pay?  (I tried looking on Craigslist and Hoobly and only found what I think are dairy cattle---holstein crosses, so not thinking that is what I want but I sure don't know much).


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## BrownSheep (Sep 18, 2012)

Finding a local rancher would be your best bet as to finding one to raise.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 18, 2012)

No Black Baldies? Wow. They are like Boers here. Every place that has cows here has Black Baldies in their field. We also have many, many Angus', Herefords, and tons of Angus crosses, such as the Black Baldy. We have many Holsteins and Holstein crosses and a few Galloways here. I know someone that has a dozen Holstein steers for meat right now. Holsteins are an excellent dairy breed but can be used as meat and the crosses are pretty good for meat. They do take longer to grow though.

8 acres should be more than enough for one cow. You are looking for a steer, right?

I would not use CL to find one. The prices will be WAY high esp. for a meat cow. I would talk to ranchers and go to a sale and get to know the ones that bring animals alot. I would never but a goat or sheep from a sale because they are all cull animals but here everybody brings their cows here. Good and bad.If you have an eye you can tell which are good and which are bad. There was this guy that breeds really nice Angus cows and he brought 8 PB Angus bulls that are registered to the sale. So I'm not sure about all stockyards but here we have nice and not so nice that is sold here. Get to know some of the better ones and maybe get one from his/her ranch.

Please remember that I do not own cattle. Everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt. Hopefully some of the real cattle people weigh in soon.


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## Cricket (Sep 18, 2012)

I won't weigh in (much!), as I raise dairy steers.  I would like to get a beef cow, mainly to keep my horse company--right now I eat her friends on a regular basis.  There was some really good debate here awhile back--I'll see if I can find it.  Cows are good!


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## lovinglife (Sep 18, 2012)

Around here beef calves are usually up around 600 pounds when they are for sale and the price is NOT cheap.  So we do get the dairy calves, they taste great and are more abundant.


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## Cricket (Sep 18, 2012)

X2.  I can't find a beef calf under what I would consider butcher weight.  The following is from Wild Rose Beef--I can't quote in a different subject (it's me!)

"To the OP: Like CESpeed did, you need to find a breed that will match your goals for what you want in your herd: breeding or meat, breeding, meat and milk, or breeding and milk?  From there you have to do some researching on what breeds you find most appealing.  Having a breed that does great on forage and doesn't require much supplementation except for mineral, is very fertile and has great calving ease, good mothering ability, and has a docile temperament are the qualities you should be looking for.  Don't get caught up nor let yourself get overwhelmed by the number of breeds available, you need to ignore all the type of breeds available and instead focus on what qualities you want in your cow herd like those I mentioned previously.  As a hint, steer clear from Charolais, Salers, Limousin and Maine Anjou cattle, and even Aberdeen Angus (black and red) cattle.  Yeah they look appealing because of their muscling and looks, but really they're a bunch of cracker-jacks that need a more experienced cattleperson to handle.  In your case, I would focus on these breeds: Hereford, Shorthorn, Galloway, Red Poll, Speckle Park, Highland, British White, or even Texas Longhorns."

If you look under Breeds, you'll find tons of discussion.  I decided on Galloway because I don't want to deal with the Highlander horns, but am finding them just about impossible to get around here.  I'm actually finding CL interesting to haunt, as you get a real good idea of the high and low prices.  And what they look like crossed with something else.  Which sometimes is really not good!  Keep us posted on your search!


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Sep 18, 2012)

What we find around here is that the beef farmers don't even have to advertise or sell on craigs list or anything.  Most of the farmers have the calves sold before they hit the ground.  My only suggestion would be to go around and visit some local farms that have the desired breed you want.  Talk to them and see if they have a list for when their cows calf.  

From my limited experience, getting a calf is easier, especially for a first time cattle (cow) person.  But I see people on here sucessfully get mature cattle all the time with  no problem.


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## Symphony (Sep 18, 2012)

http://www.beltie.org/locatinganimals/midwest.html

http://www.indianasuperads.com/livestock_For_Sale/C465A459593P4/Dairy_calves.aspx


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## WildRoseBeef (Sep 18, 2012)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> Well, we are getting more serious about raising our own beef and I have spent a few hours looking up breeds, trying to figure out where and what to get and I am just more confused.
> 
> I started out looking into the Black Baldie per Symphony and they sound great but I haven't found any around us yet and the ones I did find were mature bulls and they seem to be very expensive (not that I would think I would want a mature bull obviously).  So then I looked up Angus and Hereford but I still am not sure about what I am looking for as far as breed, age, and whatnot.
> 
> ...


Are you looking for a steer to raise for the freezer or a little cow-calf herd?  If the latter the quote that Cricket got from this thread: http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=13592 would be applicable.  If the former, then it would kinda apply, but you still need to be careful where you buy and whether those animals have good temperament or not.  Yes, docility is a HUGE factor for any and all newbies, no matter if this is the first time they're raising cattle or not. (By "not" I mean those of us getting back into cattle after a long time, i.e., 10 or so years later.)

If you're getting a beef steer, don't shy away from composites or cross-breds.  As long as they have good temperament, they're good to raise.  Char-Herf-Angus crosses (yellow-white face) can be pretty good--some may retain the flighty-factor of charolais, but others will retain the docility of a typical Hereford.  We had one steer just like the latter.   Dairy are fine, but the thing I don't care for them is that you have to get them as young calves, not 5 to 6 month-old weaners like you would with beefers.  

Cattle are herd animals, they do best with a herd of others of their kind.  With 8 acres, you could probably go for around 6 steers, or 2 to 4 cows. (1 cow = 2 steers)

Avoid CraigsList at all costs, or any internet-classifieds site; though there's the very few that advertise some great-quality cattle on there, the rest are, well, crap.  Auction sales aren't the best place to go either.  Private treaty, by visiting a farm or ranch and seeing if they can sell you some steers would be a start.  Just take one opportunity: the producer that's advertising bulls for sale may be able to sell you some steers if you ask.  Really, you never know until you ask.


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## Pearce Pastures (Sep 19, 2012)

Thank all so much.

We are looking to raise one for beef and I definitely want docile.  So it sounds like we would probably want a steer, but could also get a cow if we can't find a steer but just will not get as much meat, right?

I think maybe what we could do is get two so they have companionship, then have then processed and sell one (we don't have the freezer space for two but I do not want to just have one if it would be unkind).

So just to make sure I understand, crosses are fine, even it is with a dairy-type, but if it is dairy, people sell them younger...I am assuming because they want to keep the milk for themselves, right?  I wonder if that would be less expensive though too (but probably more work on our part since we would have to bottle feed them).

I think what I might do is ask my vet if he knows who we might buy locally from since he knows everyone and I trust his opinion


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## ourflockof4 (Sep 19, 2012)

If you have a good relationship with your vet that would be your best bet, or at least a good place to start.

Yes, dairy will get rid of all of their bull calves, and even heifers if they are not trying to expand their herd. They need to keep having calves to keep their cows fresh. If they are not expanding their herd they will sometimes breed their cows to a beef breed bull also.

Since you are starting to look, just a few term to clarify that will help you know what other people are talking about

bull - intact male, usually mature
bull calf - young male calf that has not been castrated
steer - male calf that has been casturated
heifer - young female, could be a calf or full grown that has not had a calf
heiferette - female that has only given birth once (not everyone uses this)
cow - female that has given birth 2 or more times

There will be reginal variations, but these term will get you close. If you start talking to a farmer about buying a "cow" he may not know you want a feeder calf unless he can read between the lines and see what you actually want.

What breed you should get will depend on what you want your goal is. If it's just to use your pasture to put beef in your freezer then you want something that does well finishing on grass (more heritage breeds). If you are fine with throwing some grain at them to get a good finish then any beef or heritage breed will work. If you don't mind throwing a lot of grain at them then you would be fine with a dairy breed.

Typically a cross will grow better then a pure breed (black baldy is a cross, angus/hereford) because of hybrid vigor. Don't shy away frm any cross as long as it will fit your goals and is docile.

It is better to buy from an area farmer if you can but don't be afraid of craigslist, but be very selective. We just picked up some cattle from a guy on CL, some very nice cows with calves. The ONLY reason he was selling was because he was short on feed. In my area it is also very hard to find a farmer willing to sell calves. 

Also, don't rule out a young cow/calf pair. I know if may seem odd, but short wean the calf and butcher the cow. Beef in the freezer now, and then more in another year. A heiferette or young cow will eat just fine.


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## Mike Fronczak (Sep 19, 2012)

I have had mixed results with craigslist, first two groups of cattle we bought, guys were standup people, the third...not so much.  Just like anything else buyer beware.  I haven't tried auctions, have heard mixed stories as well.  Its tough when you don't know a lot to start with, then you are kinda forced to trust others, if your vet knows of someone thats great, around here we have three types of vets (cattle, horse & small animal), & even though the area is realitivly rural the general vet (small animal), where my sister in law is a tech,  had no clue for who we should call when we had a problem with our heifer.  As far as the dairy breeds, last season we raised two Jersy steers (one was a cross) for beef, it went OK it just reqiued alot of grain and the meat had a lot of marbling (or included fat in the meat) a little more greasy than I like.  That said, hay here is in short supply so if you are going to need to grain (if you don't have hay) it wouldn't make a difference, (or maybe 2 scoops as uposed to 1 for a beef breed), but your already out there.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 19, 2012)

Here is something else to think about. I have been reading The Contrary Farmer by Gene Logsdon. It is very interesting. He has a chapter on livestock in his book. He said what he does is to have a calf about March and then butcher at about 7-8 months old which puts it around November. It is smaller but it is raised on pasture and mom's milk (he lets the calf nurse so he only ends up with the milk he wants). Then when winter comes, it isn't another mouth to feed and his cow's milk output is smaller.


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## WildRoseBeef (Sep 19, 2012)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> Thank all so much.
> 
> We are looking to raise one for beef and I definitely want docile.  So it sounds like we would probably want a steer, but could also get a cow if we can't find a steer but just will not get as much meat, right?
> 
> ...


We're also here to help too if you have any more questions.  I know you're probably going to be asking about finishing/slaughtering questions, since I brought up some points for you to think about.


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## Pearce Pastures (Sep 20, 2012)

*If you get a cow (being a mature female bovine), you have the opportunity to breed her to produce a calf every year for you to raise as a feeder/stocker animal for the freezer.  She won't be for butchering, unless you want to have a freezer full of ground beef and/or sausage.  *

Boy did I need to learn the lingo 

I think I meant to say that a steer (a neutered bull calf) or a heifer (female calf, right).  Is there a difference in taste, texture, between the two then?  I am leaning towards steer but just want to make sure I understand the basics so thank you for helping me get a good foundation here.

I am not really wanting to actually keep a breeding animal at this point and am looking more to get a few young animals, raise them for the freezer, and then see how well we liked the experience before we would consider getting a cow to breed/produce our own freezer cattle.


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## Cricket (Sep 20, 2012)

Steers tend to be more muscled, I think.  The problem around here would be that I'd start looking at the heifer and decide to breed her instead of butcher!  Steers are pretty much a done deal unless you can justify keeping a really big pet.  About company--I think one would be pretty happy if it was in the vicinity of the goats.  I've often just had one with the horse and they don't seem in the least mopey.

And not to argue with the people that prefer to raise beef instead of dairy or that it may be more cost effective for some, but you can raise dairy steers without a lot of grain.  I give mine about a 1 qt yogurt container twice a day until they are eating hay or grass well and by 4 months or so they're down to 1/2 that.  After that it's more about giving them a treat.  A lot of it probably depends on how much marbling you like and what you're used to.  We've eaten lean beef for so long that corn fed beef is about like over-eating scallops--the first tastes really good and by the 5th bite you've had enough.

Cost-wise, dairy bulls that are under 100lb. are cheapest and you'd want to get them at the farm, preferably born outside and given cholostrum.  The last bag of milk replacer I bought last spring was $75.00, disbudding (with anesthesia) was $20.  and castration (w/o) was $26.00, plus the travel costs which I split between everyone.  I think are vets are higher priced in this state.

I also notice that a number of people specifically don't like to have to bottle feed and that's my favorite part


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## Symphony (Sep 20, 2012)

Cricket said:
			
		

> Steers tend to be more muscled, I think.  The problem around here would be that I'd start looking at the heifer and decide to breed her instead of butcher!  Steers are pretty much a done deal unless you can justify keeping a really big pet.  About company--I think one would be pretty happy if it was in the vicinity of the goats.  I've often just had one with the horse and they don't seem in the least mopey.
> 
> And not to argue with the people that prefer to raise beef instead of dairy or that it may be more cost effective for some, but you can raise dairy steers without a lot of grain.  I give mine about a 1 qt yogurt container twice a day until they are eating hay or grass well and by 4 months or so they're down to 1/2 that.  After that it's more about giving them a treat.  A lot of it probably depends on how much marbling you like and what you're used to.  We've eaten lean beef for so long that corn fed beef is about like over-eating scallops--the first tastes really good and by the 5th bite you've had enough.
> 
> ...


As for taste difference, I would be surprised to find anyone that could tell you in a blind taste test that they are eating a Heifer or a Steer.  They may be able to tell you Corn fed over Grass but that's not always the case either.  Most Cattle we eat in the area in the past have been Corn fed Steers and Heifers but now I'm eating grass fed and finishing with grain for increased marbling and flavor.


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## WildRoseBeef (Sep 20, 2012)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> *If you get a cow (being a mature female bovine), you have the opportunity to breed her to produce a calf every year for you to raise as a feeder/stocker animal for the freezer.  She won't be for butchering, unless you want to have a freezer full of ground beef and/or sausage.  *
> 
> Boy did I need to learn the lingo
> 
> I think I meant to say that a steer (a neutered bull calf) or a heifer (female calf, right).  Is there a difference in taste, texture, between the two then?  I am leaning towards steer but just want to make sure I understand the basics so thank you for helping me get a good foundation here.


No to all. You can't nor will ever be able to taste the difference between a steer and a heifer. Even average daily gains are not much different between steers and heifers.  Steers are favored over heifers because a) heifers are primarily used as replacements, and b) steers are bulls (or bull calves) that have been castrated because they are not suitable to be used in breeding herds or are not needed to be used because they were selected for beef and not for being used on cows or heifers. However, heifers are still used for meat as well especially if they are unsuitable as breeding/replacement females (conformationally, temperamentally and/or genetically they are regarded as inferior animals, or have abnormal reproductive tracts).  So if you come across or purchase a heifer that ends up being not what you want as a cow, you can fatten her up to butcher.  

Besides, you can't even tell if a particular beef carcass comes from a heifer, steer, bull or cow anyway.


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## Cricket (Sep 21, 2012)

This may not need saying, but . . . in dairy lingo, you have first calf heifers, second calf heifers, third calf heifers and then they're called a cow.  You can get GREAT deals buying one of these, but it is only good (in my opinion) for hamburg.  I bought a first calf heifer last year with an injured foot specifically for hamburg, and had the butcher leave out some of the more tender cuts to make beef jerky, as my beef that I raise ends up too tender for that.  You couldn't even get a piece chewed off!  These cows are partly on pasture and partly on corn and grass silage, and I could definitely taste the difference.


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## Pearce Pastures (Sep 21, 2012)

You all are awesome.  I'll be looking around this weekend and will probably have some more questions next week about what I find, I'm sure.


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## greybeard (Sep 23, 2012)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> *If you get a cow (being a mature female bovine), you have the opportunity to breed her to produce a calf every year for you to raise as a feeder/stocker animal for the freezer.  She won't be for butchering, unless you want to have a freezer full of ground beef and/or sausage.  *
> 
> Boy did I need to learn the lingo
> 
> ...


As colder weather arrives, prices are apt to drop as cattle are sold off due to a lack of winter forage or hay especially  if you are in the part of Indiana that has or is still seeing drought conditions. BUT, that is a double edged sword. If your area has seen drought, and the calf you look at was carried and/or nursed in drought conditions, it can (IMO) result in poor meat quality even if the calf is  from a sire and dam of good genetics, and even if you provide good nutrition and medical care. I have seen it happen here after last year's Texas drought. The marbling and other beef characteristics are partially a product of good breeding, but also a product of very early nutrition requirements. Good nutrition can rarely overcome bad genetics but poor nutrition can very often negate good genetics. If the mother cow suffered nutrition wise while carrying the calf, the calf's early development in utero will suffer. The same holds true for the period between birth and  weaning. If the mother provides less milk than the calf requires or poorer quality milk, the early onset of condidtions that allow for the finished meat to be good quality and taste just won't be there. You can pour all  the high quality feed to any calf and make it fat, but fat surrounding the cuts most people look forward to have little to do with what that cut of meat actually tastes or even looks like. This can easily mean the difference between select, choice and prime. 

Since this is your first venture into freezer beef, I would recommend a dairy calf, as they are a lot cheaper to acquire and probably more readily available, and I can assure you, that your taste buds will never know the difference. In addition to that, most dairy farmers keep their milking herd in good shape nutrition wise, therefore taking my above comments  out of the picture. 

Bull calf, heifer or steer? To me, there isn't enough difference to make a difference, but that depends on personal taste I suppose.


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## Pearce Pastures (Sep 27, 2012)

Thanks again.  We did find someone who has both Holstein and Angus bulls calves.  The personally recommended we start with the Holstein, which are less expensive anyway, and they said they prefer to not give theirs as much room to roam because they say the meat is less tender.  They also feed theirs straight grain (at least the teenage daughter said so it may be that they get hay and feed or something but I will be talking more with them).  What are your thoughts on that front?  We are getting things prepared for doing this but are getting a meat goat in the meantime so it could end up being next Spring before we actually get a steer so lots of time to learn before leaping in


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Sep 27, 2012)

Did they say why they would recommend going with the Holstien first?  

In my opinion, if you are raising it for beef, then go with the beef critter.  We have 2 Jerseys and Hereford that are the same age.  They both eat the same amount and the Jeresey s because they are milking breeds, just don't pack on the meat like the beef breeds.  So for the same amount of time, food, work, we are getting less beef from them.  Yes, we paid a lot less for the Jerseys, but in the end, the better value will be in the beef breed.    

Can't wait to hear and see of what you do.  Best wishes!


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## Cricket (Sep 27, 2012)

I'd agree with Stubbornhill on going with the Angus.  Can't imagine raising it on straight grain!  Did they say what the price difference was between the two breeds and the age you could get them?  I'd give them as much room to roam as you want to--if you want to raise them in feedlot conditions, you may as well buy your beef.


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## ourflockof4 (Sep 27, 2012)

Maybe their Angus are high strung? I would think that your choice would come down to economics and person choice. A beef steer will gain much easier then a dairy steer will, and require less grain finish. With how high grain and hay prices are I would put a pencil to paper and see what makes more sense. Any dairy steer will require a lot more grain to finish then a decent beef steer. 

If you plan on raising on pasture only I would not get a dairy steer. I can say from person experience they do not do well without grain (corn is $7.50ish a bushel now) In the same pasture our beef steers were gaining good, and our dairy steers were losing condition fast. We pulled the dairy steers last week to drylot them on full grain.


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## Pearce Pastures (Sep 27, 2012)

No they didn't say why that breed.  I wonder if maybe they just have more of the Holstein to sell, but they are very nice folks too and I would hope that they weren't trying to take advantage of my newness.

I am glad you all think that the grain thing is not the norm---that stuff it so pricey and we would have a perfectly nice, planted pasture for them to use too if we did this.  I have no problem feeding part grain and part pasture but all grain?  Not so much what I was thinking.


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## greybeard (Sep 28, 2012)

With the acreage you have, you will have to supplement your pasture with "something" a good part of the year regardless of the breed. Certainly use whatever pasture you have available as well as hay for the winter,  mineral and salt. I recommended the dairy breed because they seem more available to you at a lower buy in. Tho I don't generally care much for Craigslist, sometimes you can run across a good deal--just be careful with anything you see on those type lists--always.


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## Bossroo (Sep 29, 2012)

Econ 101:   Which one will be the most economical price for one's dinner ?    The dairy type may be lower in $s to buy in .... since most are sold as days old , the  price of milk replacers is quite high $$$,  there is a greater possibility of illness, treatment costs and mortality.  Much more in $$$$$s in feed costs ( less efficient in converting feed to meat)  then add the longer time and labor ( $$$$$)  to reach butchering size.  This will in most cases exceed the total of higher purchase price and lower production costs of a beef breed animal.      :bun


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## greybeard (Sep 30, 2012)

All true bossroo, but often times, hobby farmers or brand  new to the cow business folks just starting out  don't have the extra $$ to make the original purchase of a good beef calf.
If everyone had to (all at once) come up with all the $ it takes to get either beef or dairy to market weight PLUS the purchse price, there would be a lot fewer people here, but when you can do it from wages on a weekly basis, it's a little more palatable to the wallet. 
Besides, here at BYH anyway, it isn't all about profit, loss, risk management,  or bottomline.


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## GLENMAR (Oct 11, 2012)

I want to try this too. I am finding that most weaned beef calves are around $800. Does that sound right??


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## ourflockof4 (Oct 12, 2012)

GLENMAR said:
			
		

> I want to try this too. I am finding that most weaned beef calves are around $800. Does that sound right??


If it's about 550 lbs then yes. Right now the market price for feeder calves is at $1.45/lb. Our local sale barns have been averaging $1.35-1.50/lb. Some people will also pay a slight premium for a healthy, off the farm calf that hasn't been exposed to all the germ at the sale barn.

Be carefull though. With the drought some poeple are weaning earlier so the calves are smaller. A 300 lb feeder for that price is not a good deal.


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## promiseacres (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm kind of near you (winamac) my husband knows some beef producers and may be able to hook you up with a calf. He works on tractors all over NW Indiana so knows a ton of farmers. We were talking about getting one next year to raise. The one guy I"m thinking of has xbred I think. He let us make hay on his land this summer. I have no idea on price or anything...but can ask if things don't work out closer. The big thing around here (my DH says) is that not many raise their own but buy from Canada to feed out. 

I'd love to get a mini or dexter but I think it'll be cheaper in the long run to get one from this farmer...he LOVES my husband's work on the tractors so I have an in with him.


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## GLENMAR (Oct 12, 2012)

I think the weight they were talking about was around 400 lbs. So now I know not to pay over 1.50 per pound. 
Thanks for the info. 

Do you really save any money over buying beef in the store????? By the time you pay for some calves, feed them for 2 yrs and then pay to process them?????


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## WildRoseBeef (Oct 12, 2012)

GLENMAR said:
			
		

> Do you really save any money over buying beef in the store????? By the time you pay for some calves, feed them for 2 yrs and then pay to process them?????


No.


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## Goatherd (Oct 13, 2012)

> GLENMAR wrote:
> 
> Do you really save any money over buying beef in the store????? By the time you pay for some calves, feed them for 2 yrs and then pay to process them?????


I'm sure your don't and I don't speak from experience.  BUT...the comfort in knowing how the beef  was raised, what it was fed, and how it lived would far outweigh the cost per pound for me.  Someday, I hope to be able to do this.


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## GLENMAR (Oct 13, 2012)

WildRoseBeef said:
			
		

> GLENMAR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's what I thought.


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## Cricket (Oct 13, 2012)

Goatherd said:
			
		

> > GLENMAR wrote:
> >
> > Do you really save any money over buying beef in the store????? By the time you pay for some calves, feed them for 2 yrs and then pay to process them?????
> 
> ...


Yep!  And I don't mind buying a bag of grain or shavings or baling twine for hay to feed my cows.  But I WILL not go into a store and pay for good cuts of meat, 'cause I'm cheap.  So we end up eating much better!


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## Janice (Oct 13, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> No Black Baldies? Wow. They are like Boers here. Every place that has cows here has Black Baldies in their field. We also have many, many Angus', Herefords, and tons of Angus crosses, such as the Black Baldy. We have many Holsteins and Holstein crosses and a few Galloways here. I know someone that has a dozen Holstein steers for meat right now. Holsteins are an excellent dairy breed but can be used as meat and the crosses are pretty good for meat. They do take longer to grow though.
> 
> 8 acres should be more than enough for one cow. You are looking for a steer, right?
> 
> ...


Can I ask a question from one of your comments?  If people take their cull animals to a sale and you want to get (sheep) to feed out, then would these animals be ok to purchase?  Or if they are culling them is there usually a bigger problem?  Thx.


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## GLENMAR (Oct 13, 2012)

Some one with more experience will hopefully chime in here. I was under the impression that the reason to be careful at sales it that they could carry disease home to 
your healthy animals.


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## Goatherd (Oct 13, 2012)

> I was under the impression that the reason to be careful at sales it that they could carry disease home to your healthy animals.


That's certainly one thing that can go wrong.  Regardless of where an animal comes from, it should be quarantined from your other animals until you can evaluate the health of the animal and see if the stress of moving it causes anything to develop which could be passed on to your resident animals.


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## SheepGirl (Oct 13, 2012)

Janice said:
			
		

> Straw Hat Kikos said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you're buying lambs, you don't really need to worry about anything unless they were sent there because they were constantly sick or have a defect. If you're buying cull ewes/rams then there might be something else going on, unless the producer needed to just sell their stock somewhere because they couldn't find a buyer.

If you want to buy feeder lambs I would see who sells at auction and call them and just buy straight off the farm so you don't have to deal with the disease risks at an auction. Plus you can ask the breeder all the questions you want--about the animal's history, how to care for them when you get them home, etc.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Oct 13, 2012)

I have been to sales many times. I have seen well over a thousand goats and sheep run thru the sale and be sold. I am telling you that I would NEVER EVER buy form a livestock sale. Young or old. I see lambs and kid that go thru there and lots have scours (you can see it on them), some are thin, have nasty eyes, messed up feet or legs. I've seen it all in that case. Now will you come across a good few lambs or sheep or kids or goats? Yeah, but you must have a good eye and still end up lucky. You have no way of being able to run your hands over the animal, checking for faults or issues, checking eyes, all that good stuff. IMO if you want to buy an animal you better take a good look at it and make sure you're not going to be screwed with he animal in the end. Now lets say you find a good one and you do buy it. Guess what? That animal has been in with at least 50 other goats or sheep and I can promise you that most of them have issues and are sick. So they are coughing all over your goat or sheep and are pooping in with that animal. They, in some case are trying to breed that animal, ect. So you luck out and somehow do get a good sheep or goat, but then the chances of that animal also not picking or being exposed to so many diseases, sicknesses, ect is slim to none. Point is, if you buy from a sale more than likely it's not going to turn out so well. That animal may end up living and being fine but you will have to put so much into it such as shots, wormers, maybe antibiotics, treatments, ect. So I would never recommend buying from a livestock sale. It's way to risky and to much potential to kill or destroy your animals.  

If you are looking for an animal you want to raise and slaughter for food for your family go to farms that you see and stop by. Ask them what kinds of livestock they have, what for, if they sell, if so do they sell for meat, ect. Some people may have an infertile sheep or goat that the would love to sell at a discounted price and you have an animal that you take straight from the farm and you get to see they way the do things and you feel good that it's a rather healthy animal that will not spread disease that could be dangerous to you or your animal. So no, don't buy from a sale, go find a farmer that will sell you something from their farm and go that route. Even if you pay a bit more (which you may not) you have peace of mind and it will be better all around.


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## Pearce Pastures (Oct 13, 2012)

GLENMAR said:
			
		

> WildRoseBeef said:
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We have purchased and processed our beef for a few years, just never raised it ourselves.  The cost is about the same as the store but the quality is quite noticeable.  I don't think I could ever go back now 

We are still working out the plan for this and @promiseacres, I might get in touch when we are closer to buying time.  

I probably won't find myself at any sales barn though I do know several people who buy from and sell at them---some have had no problem while others have gotten some poor quality animals that didn't do well/died.  I just know if I went, I'd probably end up buying some pathetic creature 'to rescue' and then regret it, because I am soft-hearted when I see stuff like that and logic gets misplaced temporarily.


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## Royd Wood (Oct 14, 2012)

WildRoseBeef said:
			
		

> GLENMAR said:
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No is right in fact its NO NO NO NEVER - whatever makes you think you can compete dollar wise with mr big (I slaughter 5000 corn / soya feedlot e coli laced head a day )

So I ask you to think about the proud moment you and family sink yer teeth into some good home raised beef prepared by a local(ish) butcher 
Just look at the beef recall in Canada and realise how lucky you are at eating a home raised healthy beef animal.


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## Bossroo (Oct 14, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> I have been to sales many times. I have seen well over a thousand goats and sheep run thru the sale and be sold. I am telling you that I would NEVER EVER buy form a livestock sale. Young or old. I see lambs and kid that go thru there and lots have scours (you can see it on them), some are thin, have nasty eyes, messed up feet or legs. I've seen it all in that case. Now will you come across a good few lambs or sheep or kids or goats? Yeah, but you must have a good eye and still end up lucky. You have no way of being able to run your hands over the animal, checking for faults or issues, checking eyes, all that good stuff. IMO if you want to buy an animal you better take a good look at it and make sure you're not going to be screwed with he animal in the end. Now lets say you find a good one and you do buy it. Guess what? That animal has been in with at least 50 other goats or sheep and I can promise you that most of them have issues and are sick. So they are coughing all over your goat or sheep and are pooping in with that animal. They, in some case are trying to breed that animal, ect. So you luck out and somehow do get a good sheep or goat, but then the chances of that animal also not picking or being exposed to so many diseases, sicknesses, ect is slim to none. Point is, if you buy from a sale more than likely it's not going to turn out so well. That animal may end up living and being fine but you will have to put so much into it such as shots, wormers, maybe antibiotics, treatments, ect. So I would never recommend buying from a livestock sale. It's way to risky and to much potential to kill or destroy your animals.
> 
> If you are looking for an animal you want to raise and slaughter for food for your family go to farms that you see and stop by. Ask them what kinds of livestock they have, what for, if they sell, if so do they sell for meat, ect. Some people may have an infertile sheep or goat that the would love to sell at a discounted price and you have an animal that you take straight from the farm and you get to see they way the do things and you feel good that it's a rather healthy animal that will not spread disease that could be dangerous to you or your animal. So no, don't buy from a sale, go find a farmer that will sell you something from their farm and go that route. Even if you pay a bit more (which you may not) you have peace of mind and it will be better all around.


I have raised hundreds of sheep as well as a few dozen cattle so I attended quite a few sheep and cattle auctions both to buy and sell. The vast majority were in very good health. While quite a few needed to be fattened in a feed lot due to the fact that they have just came off poor pastures or hilly dry range conditions. I  saw a few that had a limp ( handling accidents do happen from time to time in a pasture, range,corral, falls on a slippery/ wet floor,  or being handled ) and some with a runny nose, and/or runny stools caused by stress  which is understandable due to being sorted in a chute, being loaded onto a truck at the farm, then riding in a back of a truck then unloaded and run into small holding pens, then run through the auction ring.  Very few showed some signs of more serious illness, which whent as NO SALE or sold at a major discount ( buyer be ware). While it is true that any animal will be exposed to pathogens as they are in every environment, it  doesn't always mean that they will contract same due to their immune systems.   Proper quaranteen of all sale animals from any outside source ( auction or another farm)  at one's farm , as well as promt treatment if needed, should always be practiced.                                    I have also worked at a Veterinary teaching hopital... I whent to many slaughterhouses where I collected tissue samples from carcasses  8 hours per day twice a month - lungs, livers, kidneys, brains and  lymph nodes .  We used these samples as teaching aids for Senior Veterinary students in the Pathology Lab taught by Phd. Pathologists as well as Phd candidates. Then  bacteriolocial tests were performed by Phd. Bacteriologists and Phd candidates  as well as stained tissues for histological studies that were examined with microscopes by Phd.Pathologists as well as Phd candidates. The vast majority were healthy.  The very few that showed pathological changes, such as pneumonia, urinary calculi, csytic kidneys and/or livers, or enlarged lymph nodes.   I would use those to preserve as musium specimens and take photomicroscopy  photos of the histology slides as teaching material for Sophomore Vet students.  Many of which were being used by other Vet. teaching hospitals.


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