# How long will babies live without being fed?



## Legacy (Nov 14, 2011)

I am frustrated with this first time doe that will not take care of her babies. Most of the first time moms I've had fail, do so because they have babies on the wire and they get too cold. If I am able to find the babies in time and get them in a nest box, the momma does what she is supposed to and they survive. 

But this time is different. She had the babies on the wire. We got them gathered up and put into the nest box. She pulled no hair so we used dryer lent and cotton balls. They were born Sat and she just wont feed them. After the 1st night, it was obvious she hadn't even touched the nest box. Today, the babies still hadn't been fed so we put her in the box with them and put a board over it so she couldn't get out for a little while. I though maybe if the babies could just nurse once the instincts would kick in. She wouldn't be still and let them nurse, even though they tried and tried. 

We have another doe that has 4 wk old kits. We held her still and tried to get them to nurse but she freaked and wouldn't let them.

I don't think they are going to make it. She's not feeding them. How long will they go before they die. I hate the thought of just waiting for them to die. I won't rebreed her until I have at least 1 more doe ready to breed in case I need to foster next time.


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## CYGChickies (Nov 14, 2011)

I don't know if you're interested but here's a good link:

Handraising Babies 

CYG


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## Citylife (Nov 15, 2011)

12-28 hrs I would say depending on the shape they were in when born.  I have found it not to be unusual for the first litter to be unsuccessful.
Personally I would turn around and breed her again if they all die.  
I am sorry for your loss.  Unfortunately it is part of it. Hopefully she will figure it out the 2nd time.


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## oneacrefarm (Nov 15, 2011)

Legacy said:
			
		

> I am frustrated with this first time doe that will not take care of her babies. Most of the first time moms I've had fail, do so because they have babies on the wire and they get too cold. If I am able to find the babies in time and get them in a nest box, the momma does what she is supposed to and they survive.
> 
> But this time is different. She had the babies on the wire. We got them gathered up and put into the nest box. She pulled no hair so we used dryer lent and cotton balls. They were born Sat and she just wont feed them. After the 1st night, it was obvious she hadn't even touched the nest box. Today, the babies still hadn't been fed so we put her in the box with them and put a board over it so she couldn't get out for a little while. I though maybe if the babies could just nurse once the instincts would kick in. She wouldn't be still and let them nurse, even though they tried and tried.
> 
> ...


You can try putting her on her back or side and putting the kits on her to nurse.....usually if they don't get a few feedings at least from mom, they won't survive anyway...sorry she is being so obstinate. She will probably do better next time.

Shannon


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## Snowfie (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm curious, what breed is your rabbit?  My first doe recently had her first litter and she did a fantastic job.   But she's a meat breed (which usually have larger litters and a greater emphasis on breeding for good mothering of larger litters) and came from a show breeder who competes nationally.

Some rabbits can take a couple times to get the hang of things, but the consistant point I've heard from breeders is you do not want to tolerate a bad mother for too long.  Because daughters have a way of turning into their mothers.


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## Legacy (Nov 15, 2011)

Snowfie said:
			
		

> I'm curious, what breed is your rabbit?


She is half champagne, half NZW. Her mom was a good mother.  I hope she does do better next time. I am more willing to give her a few extra chances for the mere fact that I have a champagne buck but can't find a champagne doe. I got this NW momma when she was already bred to a different champagne, so I saved these does to breed to the buck I have bought. 

I really want a line of champagnes. I think even if I can't get a good mom out of her or her sisters, I may breed them to let other does foster them to get some champagnes. Then maybe I can raise a doe out of them that would be a good doe.  I am all for culling heavily to cull out the undesirable traits like bad mothering but I have to have some rabbits to begin culling.


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## Snowfie (Nov 16, 2011)

Legacy said:
			
		

> I am all for culling heavily to cull out the undesirable traits like bad mothering but I have to have some rabbits to begin culling.


It's hard to cull for bad mothering.  By the time you realize she's not up to snuff you've invested almost a year into her


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## Ms. Research (Nov 17, 2011)

I think your idea of the next time you breed to breed two does so that you can foster if you have a mom that doesn't do her job. 

Yes it is tough to cull bad moms, but you don't know you have one until you try.  It's all part of the Rabbit breeding world.  Some things you just can't plan.  :/


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## Lorelai (Nov 17, 2011)

This happened to me last month. More my fault than hers; I was late with the nest box, and she was early with her litter. Normally she's a great mom, but even though I put them in the box, she pulled no fur and they were all dead by the next day. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news on that front, but chances are, she's not going to feed them. I had a sad occurrence myself this morning, only she had the babies last week in her box and then randomly stopped taking care of them.


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## Beekissed (Nov 17, 2011)

My sister had one like this and she just brought her inside, held her down on her lap and the kids held the kits up to her teats until they latched on.  They had to continue doing this until the kits were large enough to wean, as the doe never did catch on to mothering.


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## Legacy (Nov 20, 2011)

Well, she didn't feed them. Some of them lived for 5 days before they died. We tried and tried to get them to latch on but we could never get them to.


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## Queen Mum (Nov 20, 2011)

So sorry to hear that.  Next time get a kitten nurser and feed them   

This is from a wildlife rehab site and is for feeding domestic and wild orphan kits.  

Use KMR kitten or KMR kitten plus Goat milk, regular not low fat. Add a pinch of acidophilus (aka Probiotic) to the formula to promote healthy gut flora. Formulas vary depending on region. Avoid Esbilac. FEED TWICE A DAY ONLY.

Newborn to One Week: 2 - 2+1/2 cc/ml each feeding (two feedings per day).

1-2 weeks: 5-7 cc/ml each feeding (two feedings per day). (depending on bunny..may be much LESS if smaller rabbit!) Newborn babies (if eyes closed) all need to be stimulated to urinate and defecate prior to or following feeding until their eyes open. (Except Jackrabbits do not). *See how to below.

2-3 weeks: 7-13 cc/ml each feeding (two feedings). Domestic eyes open at about 10 days of age. Start introducing them to timothy and oat hay, pellets and water (always add fresh greens for wild ones).

3-6 weeks: 13-15 cc/ml each feeding (two feedings--again, may be LESS depending on size of rabbit! A cottontail will take so much less!! Half this at most.) Domestics are weaned about 6 weeks. Cottontails wean and release about 3-4 weeks and jackrabbits much later (9+ weeks). goats milk.  


*ALSO VERY IMPORTANT  **Wash their bottoms with a wet wash cloth to stimulate pee'ing UNTIL THEIR EYES ARE OPEN.*   (If you don't do that they will die.)

I have done this very successfully with squirrels and rabbits.


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## Ms. Research (Nov 21, 2011)

So sorry for your loss Legacy.


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## DKRabbitry (Nov 21, 2011)

That is terribly disheartening.  Hopefully she does better next time, they usually do.

I have a first time champange doe due on the 28th... I am really hoping she does well as these babies should be awesome representations of their breed.  I have her due the same day as one of her aunts who raised 5 perfectly her first time.  Hopefully if there are any issues, I can catch them in time and foster.   I would just have to make sure I mark the kits so I know whose is whose.  Darn champagnes... they all look the same LOL


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## Legacy (Nov 21, 2011)

Sara, thank you for the info but I will not ever be hand raising baby rabbits. I have 10 kids that I homeschool plus 12 does, 5, bucks, and bunch of chickens. I don't have time to raise rabbits that the momma wont raise.  I will try to make it where I can foster to another doe so the babies don't die.


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## Queen Mum (Nov 21, 2011)

OK, I understand.  I thought you wanted some of her babies to survive for breeding later.  That was why I suggested the formula feeding.


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## Legacy (Nov 21, 2011)

I do appreciate that. I just don't think I could do it successfully and I would stress myself out trying. I am going to wait until I have a couple more does that are ready to breed so that if her instincts don't kick in, I can foster them to the others. I have one ready to breed I have 4 more that are due any day. If any of those does, I will breed them all the same day.

eta: I just went back and re-read my previous post. It sounded snarky. I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to be snarky just to the point. I do appreciate your effort in getting me the info. I just know that I can't use that method. We took over the raising of some baby cottontails that some one else had taken in. It was hard and they were already 3 weeks old and still it was hard. Only one survived. I told myself then I wouldn't try that again.


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## Queen Mum (Nov 22, 2011)

I don't take snarky personally.  I thought I offended you by  sounding  like a know-it-all.  And I know so little.  
 

Raising little animals can be pretty labor intensive.  I'm one of those farmers who lives in reality about animals, but then you wouldn't know that.  If they are destined for the table, I'm all for that.  But I have VEGAN friends who would be horrified by that so I try to be careful about how I post a suggestion on animal care until I know someone's attitudes and farm practices.  I've had my foot in my mouth so many times I'm a permanent cripple.


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