# Vet says my sheep are overweight *Update post #29!!!!



## PotterWatch

We had a vet out a couple weeks ago to cast a buckling with a broken leg.  It was that same day that we first saw one of our ewes with a prolapsed rectum.  We ended up butchering that ewe.  Today, the vet came back out for a recheck of the buckling and while she was here, she eyeballed our sheep and said they are overweight and that is what may have caused the prolapsed rectum in the ewe.  Our sheep are on pasture only, no grain or dry hay.  We have had them about a month.  She says we should have her come out and do a whole farm check for $150.  I think she means she would come and look over our operation and tell us what we can improve upon as far as feeding and basic management.  I'm not real inclined to do that.  I'm having a hard time with the idea that our flock of sheep are overweight.  Isn't it pretty unusual for a single animal, let alone a whole flock, on pasture to be fat?  I would love some opinions from sheep people as I am brand new to sheep.  Here are some pictures I took today:


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## CochinBrahmaLover=)

I'm not a SHEEP person (YET!! XD) but those sheep aren't fat... They look 'big' due to wool (maybe....) but where you can see no wool, they look pretty good

Course this is my opinion, it could be kinda like how tourists think our dogs are 'skinny' because you can see their ribs, or hips on some of them


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## bonbean01

They don't look fat to me either...they look in good health.  Our sheep are not swelt, but they are healthy, no problem lambing and no prolapses.  I'm no expert, but your sheep look good to me.


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## redtailgal

I dont know much about sheep, but I know a few vets, both good and bad.

That's a common tactic, to get out on your farm and get that initial fee, along with whatever else they can talk you into.  Your new to sheep.......fresh meat, gullible, however you want to call it.

I'd find a new vet!


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## BrownSheep

Large sheep (rang based)operations tend to hav MUCH skinny sheep then what most of us on here would like. If she is use to those sheep then yep your sheep could look overweight to her.


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## ShadyAcres

Sheep that are in the in-between stage of shedding are difficult to determine their condition just by looking.  And probably your vet is unfamiliar with the heavy look that Dorpers are supposed to have.  From your photos your sheep appear to be in overall good condition.  However, Dorpers are known for their ability to gain weight on nothing and *can *become overweight just on grass.  

On your ewe that you butchered, how old was she?  Have you eaten any of the meat yet?  I have only eaten our lambs that were less than 1 year old.  I had never eaten lamb before we started raising sheep so Dorper meat is the only lamb that I am familiar with  and absolutely love it!  I ask as I have a ewe that is 2  that will not get bred and I am trying to decide if I should butcher her or haul her to the market when we sell our lambs.  

You have a nice flock of sheep.  Good luck and have fun!


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## Gracie9205

They don't look overweight to me!


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## secuono

Mine are rounder than yours, so I'd say they aren't fat and mine are pushing it. 
I agree, the vet is trying to weasel more money out of you.


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## kfacres

those sheep are nearly perfect in condition, I'd say...

I'd question them though-- typically the ones with a good mineral program-- should easily be shedded out by now-- no matter what location in the country.


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## boykin2010

Your sheep are not fat! Are those Dorpers? Does your vet know that the dorpers are a very meaty breed to start with? They are supposed to be big. I have sheep much bigger than yours but they are not fat either. Some may have had a single lamb this year and didnt lose much weight, or they just gain weight better. I don't think your sheep being overweight had anything to do with the prolapse. Sometimes things just happen.  I have heard that sheep with their tails docked close have a higher chance of getting a prolapse. I do not dock any of mines tails but I see yours are docked. Maybe that is something to look into?


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## kfacres

boykin2010 said:
			
		

> Your sheep are not fat! Are those Dorpers? Does your vet know that the dorpers are a very meaty breed to start with? They are supposed to be big. I have sheep much bigger than yours but they are not fat either. Some may have had a single lamb this year and didnt lose much weight, or they just gain weight better. I don't think your sheep being overweight had anything to do with the prolapse. Sometimes things just happen.  I have heard that sheep with their tails docked close have a higher chance of getting a prolapse. I do not dock any of mines tails but I see yours are docked. Maybe that is something to look into?


all sheep unless a hair sheep require tails docked.. dorpers since a shedder-- and not a full hair sheep-- need tails docked.  

overweight sheep are more prone to prolapse, but it's more so a genetic cause.  the tail thing is bogus.


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## Rvrfshr

bonbean01 said:
			
		

> They don't look fat to me either...they look in good health.  Our sheep are not svelte, but they are healthy, no problem lambing and no prolapses.  I'm no expert, but your sheep look good to me.


Your sheep look healthy to me.  

What was your vet's advice on trimming them down?


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## SheepGirl

Body condition score them...if they are between 2.5 to 3.5 then they are in fine condition and not fat. A fat sheep will score a four or a five. You really can't tell by looking at the sheep with wool, however, the ones that are more shed out look fine to me.


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## Southdown

SheepGirl, you read my mind.  I was thinking of the sheep scoring chart that's in one of my books.  They look healthy and definitely not overweight.  Mine are on the lower end of scoring right now and I need to fatten them up.  Giving birth seems to drop their scores a lot.  I'd be a little weary of your vet because they are not fat.


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## PotterWatch

Thanks everyone for confirming what I was thinking. If the vet had gotten her hands on them and done a body score, I wouldn't have been so skeptical. But like you guys only saw pictures, all she did was look at them through the fence.  We don't have many vets to choose from around here so I will still keep her number for emergencies, but I'm definitely not going to take her up on her offer to look over the whole place.


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## PotterWatch

ShadyAcres said:
			
		

> On your ewe that you butchered, how old was she?  Have you eaten any of the meat yet?  I have only eaten our lambs that were less than 1 year old.  I had never eaten lamb before we started raising sheep so Dorper meat is the only lamb that I am familiar with  and absolutely love it!  I ask as I have a ewe that is 2  that will not get bred and I am trying to decide if I should butcher her or haul her to the market when we sell our lambs.


Well, I saw ewe, but she was really still a lamb.  We bought her to use as a breeding ewe though so I got used to saying ewe.  She was only born in November 2011 (off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure she was one of the younger ones we got... it's possible though that she was one of the ones born in July 2011).  We haven't eaten any of the meat yet, but I have a leg earmarked for a meal this week!



			
				kfacres said:
			
		

> I'd question them though-- typically the ones with a good mineral program-- should easily be shedded out by now-- no matter what location in the country.


Thanks for the information.  What should I look for or add to their diet do you think?  They have access to an all-stock Redmond conditioner block, but I don't have loose minerals out for them.


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## Remuda1

I have dorpers as well and think yours look great. What about the one you processed? I'm sure the meat looked fine and wasn't covered with and marbled out with huge amounts of fat. It's a shame that we have to be on our guard even with those people that we depend on to do right by our animals. A good vet will not only look out for the welfare of your animals, but your entire operation as well. Part of that is not recommending frivolous and costly services and procedures.


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## kfacres

PotterWatch said:
			
		

> ShadyAcres said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On your ewe that you butchered, how old was she?  Have you eaten any of the meat yet?  I have only eaten our lambs that were less than 1 year old.  I had never eaten lamb before we started raising sheep so Dorper meat is the only lamb that I am familiar with  and absolutely love it!  I ask as I have a ewe that is 2  that will not get bred and I am trying to decide if I should butcher her or haul her to the market when we sell our lambs.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I saw ewe, but she was really still a lamb.  We bought her to use as a breeding ewe though so I got used to saying ewe.  She was only born in November 2011 (off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure she was one of the younger ones we got... it's possible though that she was one of the ones born in July 2011).  We haven't eaten any of the meat yet, but I have a leg earmarked for a meal this week!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kfacres said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd question them though-- typically the ones with a good mineral program-- should easily be shedded out by now-- no matter what location in the country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thanks for the information.  What should I look for or add to their diet do you think?  They have access to an all-stock Redmond conditioner block, but I don't have loose minerals out for them.
Click to expand...

by conditioner, what do you mean?  Typically 'conditioner' leads me to  believe it also acts as a protein block.  If that's the case-- then your sheep are not on grass soley.

blocks are hard on teeth- loose is the way to go.  Most typically all- stock blocks are also high in Cu, and they are not sufficient for sheep.

We follow Pipestone's mineral program, and have for over a year now.  Since switching from commerical minerals- we have not had a single case of footrot-- and very minor cases of scald.  Research shows it's from the iodine injection.


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## PotterWatch

It's a Redmond Natural mineral/salt block.  The conditioner is what is in our chicken feed.  I get them mixed up when referring to them.  I'll see if I can get loose minerals instead.  Thanks!


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## Gracie9205

I give my lactating ewes a sheep block made by Producer's Pride.  It is a much softer block than the kind cow/horse kind, and is formulated specifically for sheep/goats.  My girls really seem to enjoy them.  This is the only thing I supplement their diet with, and they are about a 3.5 in body condition right now while nursing month old lambs.


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## kfacres

Gracie9205 said:
			
		

> I give my lactating ewes a sheep block made by Producer's Pride.  It is a much softer block than the kind cow/horse kind, and is formulated specifically for sheep/goats.  My girls really seem to enjoy them.  This is the only thing I supplement their diet with, and they are about a 3.5 in body condition right now while nursing month old lambs.


guessing you leave that block inside?  First instance of water- and you're left with a blob of block...



read this> http://www.pipevet.com/userfiles/file/newsletters/sheepMay2011.pdf   for all you mineral lovers out there...

FYI: Pipestone is unquestionably the most elite group of sheep vets in this country.


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## Rvrfshr

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> Body condition score them...if they are between 2.5 to 3.5 then they are in fine condition and not fat. A fat sheep will score a four or a five. You really can't tell by looking at the sheep with wool, however, the ones that are more shed out look fine to me.
> 
> http://smallfarms.oregonstate.edu/sites/default/files/BCS_1.jpg


Excellent chart!  Thanks for posting it.


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## Gracie9205

kfacres said:
			
		

> Gracie9205 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I give my lactating ewes a sheep block made by Producer's Pride.  It is a much softer block than the kind cow/horse kind, and is formulated specifically for sheep/goats.  My girls really seem to enjoy them.  This is the only thing I supplement their diet with, and they are about a 3.5 in body condition right now while nursing month old lambs.
> 
> 
> 
> guessing you leave that block inside?  First instance of water- and you're left with a blob of block...
> 
> 
> 
> read this> http://www.pipevet.com/userfiles/file/newsletters/sheepMay2011.pdf   for all you mineral lovers out there...
> 
> FYI: Pipestone is unquestionably the most elite group of sheep vets in this country.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is left inside.  The block is more of a protein block than a mineral block.  It says has a minimum 1% phosphorus, so I don't think it has much as all.  I toss a block in the barn about once a month and have had no problems.  That is a very helpful article though.  Seems like you can buy just about any kind of supplement imaginable, but nothing compensates for a well maintained pasture and forage diet!


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## kfacres

Gracie9205 said:
			
		

> kfacres said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gracie9205 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I give my lactating ewes a sheep block made by Producer's Pride.  It is a much softer block than the kind cow/horse kind, and is formulated specifically for sheep/goats.  My girls really seem to enjoy them.  This is the only thing I supplement their diet with, and they are about a 3.5 in body condition right now while nursing month old lambs.
> 
> 
> 
> guessing you leave that block inside?  First instance of water- and you're left with a blob of block...
> 
> 
> 
> read this> http://www.pipevet.com/userfiles/file/newsletters/sheepMay2011.pdf   for all you mineral lovers out there...
> 
> FYI: Pipestone is unquestionably the most elite group of sheep vets in this country.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is left inside.  The block is more of a protein block than a mineral block.  It says has a minimum 1% phosphorus, so I don't think it has much as all.  I toss a block in the barn about once a month and have had no problems.  That is a very helpful article though.  Seems like you can buy just about any kind of supplement imaginable, but nothing compensates for a well maintained pasture and forage diet!
Click to expand...

protein lick tubs and blocks are by some margin the most expensive feed ingredient known to livestock production.  You would be money ahead feeding shell corn, and a plain mineral.  

The most common ingredient in almost all mixtures-- is molasses...  What do you think holds them together in a block format?  Molasis does nothing for the animal== just flavor-- to eat more product.

I'll say it again- the same as a 1000 times-- when I quit feeding a bought mineral- my sheep got healthier.


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## bonbean01

Gracie...we tried those blocks and our sheep would only eat that until it was all gone...we have a small herd, but one of those didn't last more than two days...they seemed to think the point of it was to see how quickly they could eat it up


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## Gracie9205

Just to clear things up, I'm not claiming that their healthiness has anything to do with that block!  I was just saying that I occasionally throw one out there for them., and they look great right now.   From what I am reading though, it seems like I am just buying a big useless sheep treat!


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## bonbean01

Gracie, I'm sure they are not useless, but really expensive...and your sheep appreciate the yummy block


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## Gracie9205

bonbean01 said:
			
		

> Gracie, I'm sure they are not useless, but really expensive...and your sheep appreciate the yummy block


  I find that my sheep and I are a lot alike!  Sugar makes everything better!


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## PotterWatch

Well, I got a surprise today!  I was walking out to the goat pen (past the pasture where the sheep currently are), and I saw a single sheep on one side of the pasture and there was a bright white thing underneath her.  My first thought was that it was odd that one of the chickens had gotten so close to her.  My next thought was... that isn't a chicken!  Our first lamb was born to our farm this morning to a sheep we didn't even know was pregnant!  I'm now guessing there are one or two more who are pregnant.  There is one that had an ultrasound just before she came to us so we know she will be lambing within a month, but we weren't expecting any others!  So maybe those fat sheep are fat for a reason!

I assume that sheep are like goats and that once they pass the placenta, they are done lambing...?  If so, it looks like she had a singleton.  A very cute singleton!


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## Remuda1

LOL!! Congratulations . Tell that vet that you NEVER tell
A pregnant ewe that they look fat!!'


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

Remuda1 said:
			
		

> LOL!! Congratulations . Tell that vet that you NEVER tell
> A pregnant ewe that they look fat!!'


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## feed grass

the original dorpers that were brought into this country- struggled to have more than singles-- almost all the time.  I have a friend that brought 2 of the very first trailor loads into the US.

That lamb looks plenty big- I question the ewe being on soley grass delivering a lamb of that size.


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## Remuda1

Hey Potter, if it were me, I would be doing a serious udder check on the rest of the ones that you are unsure of. None of my dorpers lambed without building a bag first. I'm not saying it has to be huge, but it may give you a better idea.


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## PotterWatch

feed grass said:
			
		

> the original dorpers that were brought into this country- struggled to have more than singles-- almost all the time.  I have a friend that brought 2 of the very first trailor loads into the US.
> 
> *That lamb looks plenty big- I question the ewe being on soley grass delivering a lamb of that size*.


I'm not sure what you mean by that sentence.  Are you saying the lamb looks like it is from a sheep that has been fed stuff other than grass?  Some of them were fed hay and possibly some grain before they came to us, though if they did have grain it wasn't a whole lot.  We have only had them (well, some of them including the ewe that delivered this lamb), since April 29th.  We now have them exclusively on pasture.  The lamb also looks a bit bigger in the pictures than it is in real life due to the angle from which the middle two pictures were taken.


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## PotterWatch

Remuda1 said:
			
		

> Hey Potter, if it were me, I would be doing a serious udder check on the rest of the ones that you are unsure of. None of my dorpers lambed without building a bag first. I'm not saying it has to be huge, but it may give you a better idea.


As soon as we finished cooing over the new baby, that is exactly what we did.  There is at least one other that I believe is pregnant that we didn't know about.  You can be certain I will be keeping a close eye on everyone after this surprise!


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## feed grass

PotterWatch said:
			
		

> feed grass said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the original dorpers that were brought into this country- struggled to have more than singles-- almost all the time.  I have a friend that brought 2 of the very first trailor loads into the US.
> 
> *That lamb looks plenty big- I question the ewe being on soley grass delivering a lamb of that size*.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by that sentence.  Are you saying the lamb looks like it is from a sheep that has been fed stuff other than grass?  Some of them were fed hay and possibly some grain before they came to us, though if they did have grain it wasn't a whole lot.  We have only had them (well, some of them including the ewe that delivered this lamb), since April 29th.  We now have them exclusively on pasture.  The lamb also looks a bit bigger in the pictures than it is in real life due to the angle from which the middle two pictures were taken.
Click to expand...

ya that's exactly what I am saying...  What did it weigh? and did you actually weigh it?


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## Remuda1

I think that the lamb looks to be a reasonable size... The perspective in a couple of the pics lends to the perception of size but it looks like the pasture is in generous condition and singles tend to be larger anyway.


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## PotterWatch

I did not weigh it.  I could do that today though.  Our pasture is in rough condition right now where the sheep are, but when they first arrived, it was very lush and they certainly didn't lack for food.  What they had before they came here other than hay and pasture, I can't say for sure.  This picture was taken the week after the sheep arrived, so you can see what kind of pasture they have had for the majority of the time here:


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## PotterWatch

Doesn't look like I will get a chance to weigh her today.  It is our weekly chicken processing day and I have a lot of irrigation pipe to move, a repairman is coming to look at our washing machine, and I have to show our rental house twice this afternoon.  I'm inside for a few minutes to grab a bite to eat and then back out into the heat (boy am I not looking forward to summer).  The baby is absolutely adorable!  I have no idea what size they usually are but she seems pretty small to me.  A tad smaller than our LaMancha kids usually are.  Here are a couple more pictures I took that have better perspective on her size:


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## boykin2010

It looks completely normal size to me especially for a single.  
Congrats!  Will you be keeping the lamb?


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