# colonized herd



## justin (Nov 29, 2011)

I read an article in one of my magazines about the pros and cons of doing this with your meat rabbits. Unfortunately it was a short article, but it got me interested and I am thinking about it. I figure I have all winter to do some researching and decide if it is something I want to do or not. Does anyone here have a colonized heard? If so would you recomend it and what would your advice to me be if I decide to do this?


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## Bossroo (Nov 29, 2011)

Colony breeding may sound nice and cozy especially to some bleeding heart animal lovers.  Some have done so somewhat successfully.  But, when one is raising rabbits for meat...  Have you heard of food fight in the cafeteria...  when rabbits reach  sexual maturity , there will be fur fights ! Even to the death to litter mates, especially by a very dominant female. Treating injured rabbits is not fun and can get quite expensive.   Also rabbits can have multiple pregnancies at the most inopertune times ,... litters born about 33 days apart and many kits will be abandoned or be very hungry and not do well even if the doe desides to raise them all.  She will then be a walking skeleton.  A lose lose proposition for a very expensive hobby for someone who wants to do the right thing by their animals then wonder what happened.


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## Genipher (Nov 29, 2011)

On a similar note, what about putting just the _does _together? I've been trying to reorganize our rabbit situation and one of my thoughts has been to use our large, non-compartmentalized 8-ft hutch as a "harem" for our 2 (possibly 3) does.
I remember reading a thread here, not too long ago, of someone who colonized their rabbits and said that the does were taking care of each other's kits...


Has anyone tried this?
Would there be the same fighting issues amongst the girls?


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## AZ Rabbits (Nov 29, 2011)

If you are wanting to produce meat, colonizing will dramatically reduce your production, period. In a colony you cannot control breeding patterns, when, with whom, etc. As a result, the results are far less than in a controlled environment.

If you're just wanting to casually have rabbit meat and you want to try the colony thing just for kicks, that's a different story.


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## Snowfie (Nov 29, 2011)

I have heard of people successfully doing a type of colony, without going full on free range colony.

They may have a couple females in a 4'x4' fenced in area (with a roof) and introduce a male in occassionally.

There can still be fights.  I got one of my rabbits from a breeder who had a similar set up and her grow-out "pen" had at least one rabbit with a horrible facial tear.  They were all destined for meat but you still want them to have good lives.

A lot of people like the idea of a colony becusae they think it's better for the rabbit becuase they won't be loney, when rabbits are perfectly happy living alone in cages that are all theirs.  Rabbits are social, but they are also territorial and nothing ruins the fun of rabbit keeping like a big dominance fight.


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## Genipher (Nov 29, 2011)

For me, I'm just trying to figure out the space issue. I want to get rid of our crappy hutch and if I could put the girls in our "new" 8-ft hutch, that would help solve some space problems...


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## AZ Rabbits (Nov 29, 2011)

I think this boils down to what type of breeder you are. In my opinion, there are 3 types of rabbit breeders:

1. *Serious breeders* who breed with a deliberate, thought out system between carefully chosen does and bucks.
2. *Casual breeders* who breed for home production and are just as interested in variety and fun as in production.
3. *Idiot breeders* who think rabbits are people and that their needs are just like a human, without understanding how rabbits really operate and tick. They often end up harming the rabbits instead of helping them.

The colony system works for both number 2 and 3 type breeders. But it cannot work for number 1 type of breeders. It could be fun and interesting, but cannot yield maximum results and cannot function with deliberate breeding to improve stock for replacement breeders with the greatest precision.

That being said, I know people who have fun doing the colony thing as it is much less work and they aren't as interested in maximizing meat production as they are of just raising some rabbits for fun and having a fairly steady meat supply. And it is fun to see. But I'd personally never do it because my time, money and efforts are too valuable. But everyone is different...


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## AZ Rabbits (Nov 29, 2011)

By the way, this wasn't directed toward anyone here, just was my opinion on the subject...



			
				AZ Heat said:
			
		

> I think this boils down to what type of breeder you are. In my opinion, there are 3 types of rabbit breeders:
> 
> 1. *Serious breeders* who breed with a deliberate, thought out system between carefully chosen does and bucks.
> 2. *Casual breeders* who breed for home production and are just as interested in variety and fun as in production.
> ...


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## secuono (Nov 29, 2011)

I think a lot of people that want to do colony are some of those 'pet crazed' people. 

I would much rather have spacious cages for each of my rabbits than tiny cages or a bunch of rabbits in a big cage w/potential fights. 
That's why mine are 2x4ft, even the bucks. I'm hoping one day I will have enough money to make cages that are attached to runs or even individual tractors.


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## Genipher (Nov 29, 2011)

Well I'm definitely not "pet crazed" and I'm looking forward to "growing" our own meat for the table. Guess that would make me in the catagory of a number 2, eh?


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## CCourson05 (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm a mixture of 1 and 2. Lol. I consider the effects of breeding certain rabbits, but if one doe tends to give me 10 kits that are about a pound a half each dressed, and another doe 8 kits of 2 pounds dressed, they are both efficient. IMO


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## quiltnchik (Nov 29, 2011)

There's a great article here - Mother Earth News  - about raising rabbits in a colony setting.

I think Americans in general are reluctant to try new things, but this concept has been used in Europe for years and works very well.  If I had the facilities, this is how I would raise mine.  I hate them being locked away in cages their entire lives.


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## Genipher (Nov 29, 2011)

That was an interesting article. It *really *makes me want to try something like that except I still have a fear that my rabbits wouldn't get along. 
Today I had 5 of our rabbits together in the 8-ft hutch that I recently mentioned.  They all got along...except for 2 of the bucks. They immediately got into a fight (an adult mini Rex against a 6-month-old Lop.) I was out there in a flash to do some rearranging but...I just don't see how more than one buck could get along. 

I suppose if you start off with all the rabbits getting along and cull the ones that resist "order", it could work.


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## terri9630 (Nov 30, 2011)

I've always had a problem with the does fighting. Fur everywhere!


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## AZ Rabbits (Nov 30, 2011)

Regarding the article... it might be an easier way, but it's definitely not better, nor is it more effective. It's definitely less work though.


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## Genipher (Nov 30, 2011)

The lady in the article seemed to do all right production-wise. Wouldn't 70 fryers in 4 weeks would be a good chunk of meat? Or is that a small number?

This topic got me researching and I found this thread with a lot of interesting ideas and pictures:

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=327243

If I colonized, I would probably copy her setup. Also, I think she has the bucks, kindling does, and fryers separated.


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## AZ Rabbits (Nov 30, 2011)

Genipher said:
			
		

> The lady in the article seemed to do all right production-wise. Wouldn't 70 fryers in 4 weeks would be a good chunk of meat? Or is that a small number?


The article says:


> Within a few weeks, we noticed small bunnies coming to the troughs at feeding time. When spring finally arrived, we had 70 rabbits of frying size, smaller bunnies everywhere, and babies in most of the nest boxes.


Well, it was late fall when she started. Those results were in spring. If she was starting out with 18 does and 2 bucks, then that's less than 4 kits per doe for the 70 fryers. Then there were little bunnies. Assuming the little bunny numbers were similar to the number of fryers, that's around 2 litters during that long span. That's horrible results. It's dramatically less than controlled breeding. Of course those numbers are using assumptions, which I'm sure probably aren't that far off, otherwise she'd mention bigger numbers. In fact, I'd bet money that the numbers were less than my assumptions.

There's no argument that it is EXTREMELY less effective. Your feed to meat ratio will change dramatically and so the cost per pound of meat will skyrocket. 

However, if it's something a person really wants to do and they're not really focused on maximizing production, the cost per pound may not be important. Therefore, it's all a matter of preference. But it cannot be argued that it's anywhere close to as effective as controlled breeding.

But if you decide to do it, let us know how it goes and post lots of pictures!


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## CCourson05 (Dec 1, 2011)

AZ Heat said:
			
		

> Genipher said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those were my thoughts too. 70 rabbits in 3-4 months with 18 does? I could easily get 125 with that many. Plus more to be on their way.


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## Bossroo (Dec 1, 2011)

Her does are nursing the newborn kits instead of the older ones, so there will be many malnurished older young as well as the newborns since the older bunnies will try to nurse on momma first before she has an oportunity to nurse the newborn in the nestboxes.  Also by feeding in the troughs, the kits will urinate and go poopy  potty onto the feed wich results in unpalatable feed and spoilage and deprives the rabbits their daily repast. That and mold growth will start very rapidly causing digestive upsets and therefore loss of groth as well as loss of life. ( this article never mentions any rabbit losses) The flooring is also of concern since rabbits tend to relieve themselves in certain locations, there will be wet areas which are very conducive to mold and fungal groth as well as breeding hotspots for flies and other pests.  Then there is the matter of the oudoor pen... made of chicken wire, which is meant to keep chickens and rabbits in, but does nothing to deter any self respecting predator out. Sparows, mice, rats, snakes have no problem in getting through the chicken wire and they do carry any number of deseases which causes illness, loss of proper groth and life, and Vet bills.  No wonder her production is lacking.   If she was running a puppy or kitten mill, she would have been shut down.   So far she has lucked out in her dreamworld , but it is about to run out.  It is obvious that this person as well as the  author of this article knows next to nothing about proper and sanitary animal husbandry.   Not a very economical operation.


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## Genipher (Dec 1, 2011)

Ah, I didn't catch that it was more than 4 weeks for the kits to emerge.

I look at the pictures and colonizing seems so ideal...but I don't want to waste feed and get less results.

I'll probably just invest in stackable cages (at some point) and continue what I am currently doing.


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## Ms. Research (Dec 2, 2011)

Genipher said:
			
		

> Ah, I didn't catch that it was more than 4 weeks for the kits to emerge.
> 
> I look at the pictures and colonizing seems so ideal...but I don't want to waste feed and get less results.
> 
> I'll probably just invest in stackable cages (at some point) and continue what I am currently doing.


It's a really nice thought of having animals living in harmony.  Unfortunately IMO, it's just a pipe dream.  Finding out what rabbits are really like, and living through dominance issues myself, I'm more of the "rabbits are individuals and need their individual spaces" kind of person.   Give me stackable cages and bunnies will live in harmony.  And your plans of kits can be completely monitored.

K


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## Genipher (Dec 2, 2011)

I agree with you Ms. Research (and AZ). Right now I have some younger rabbits all together in a large pen-ish hutch and they do great. But the boys aren't old enough to breed and the girls are oooooold.


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## justin (Dec 7, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies and advice, after reading it all and doing some other research I decided that there isn't a single reason I want to do this. All the reasons that the article I read said it was a good idea to colonize seem to be false according to all the rest of my research. The main thing I'm interested in is getting the most meat for the smallest price I have to put into it and a colonized heard does not look like a good choice.


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## lastfling (Dec 7, 2011)

It's good to see someone who does the research on both the pro's and con's of a method before jumping in feet first and then realizing that this is not the way to meet their goals.  Good luck with your endeavor.


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## PinkFox (Dec 24, 2011)

im from the uk origionally where pasture and colony raising rabbits is ALOT more common AND in the RIGHT situation can be just as effective (and sometimes actually better)

as i was raised around the general rule was females were raised in LARGE pens...a 20x20 pen is minimum size for 4 does, 25x25 much better and bigger still is always better.
the bucks were typically kept seperate in movable arcs.
and typically 2 seperate 10x10 pens for spereating bucks and does for growout.

the does were exposed to the buck ONLY when the rabbit rasier wanted kits, then returned to the pen...
does often would kindle and raise kits in a nursery type setting (all the does taking care of all the litters)

some challenges in this setting become checking on kits (most farmers flor the runs with wire then sew clover, grass cover crop ect directly ontop) the does then kindle in boxes with removable lids for easy check up.

does allowed to dig their own burrows frequently loose kits to flooding where im from so this became the absolutly best situation was set up above ground "warrens".

feed to meat ratio in a large enough pen is VERY good because the rabbits graze (clover, dandelion ect being choice) cutting the feed bill down dramatically!


so yes i 100% belive colony raising can work quite nicely, even in fairly extensive operations IF you have the space to do it properly...
i dont feel from my experience simply leaving a buck in with the does 24/7 is the best aproach...

personally i plan to recreate what i grew up with, 4 does will have a 25x25 pen with plenty of hidey holes...
the 2 bucks will have movable arcs or be raised in none wire floored LARGE hutches...
and babies that are destined for the freezer will be removed from the main pen when old enough into movable arcs so they can continue t be pasture raised without worry.
it worked for my grandmother, her parents and their parents before them, she raised rex's (i plan on also raising SR's) for meat and fur...her does woudl average 8-10 a litter with a very high survival rate, i remmber one year she lost 3 kits form the same litter and seriously freeked out..., a very low feed cost to meat ratio because the bunnies were pasture raised on grass, clover, dandelion and garden greens along with plenty of fresh hay. infact i dont think she EVER bought comersial rabbit feed) her average fryer weight was 1 1/2lbs, she had 6 does and while she never intensivly bred (she bred each doe no more than 3 times a year but usually only twice)
she never lacked for meat on the table from her bunnies, they cost her nothing more than whatever she was growing at the time (she traded fruit pies for bales of hay lol) and she had plenty of amazing fur to use (there were rabbit fur blankets on every bed lol)

she obviously wasnt a comerical breeder, but i certianly woudl call her a SERIOUS breeder...he relied on those rabbits (along with every other animal on their 1 acre homestead) to feed them...if a rabbit didnt produce they whent hungry ect...so it definatly wasnt "just for fun"
and ill say this, her rabbits looked stunning, great definition and amazing coats.  and she NEVER had an issue with sore hocks!


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## Ms. Research (Dec 24, 2011)

PinkFox said:
			
		

> im from the uk origionally where pasture and colony raising rabbits is ALOT more common AND in the RIGHT situation can be just as effective (and sometimes actually better)
> 
> as i was raised around the general rule was females were raised in LARGE pens...a 20x20 pen is minimum size for 4 does, 25x25 much better and bigger still is always better.
> the bucks were typically kept seperate in movable arcs.
> ...


I wish you luck on your venture.  It looks like "colony raising" is in your blood.  I hope that you start a thread to let others know of your success.  I just don't know how it will work without fights because of territory but would be really interested to see how it goes.  

K


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## PinkFox (Dec 24, 2011)

the territory fights were never an issue in the past, probably because the girls did have a large amount of space (again were not talking more than 4 does in a 25x25 area)
my gran also culled heavily for what she wanted to see in her breeding rabbits and agression wasnt tolerated. she did sell some of her bunnies as pets and retired breeders often got adopted by families rather than the step pot so temperment was a huge deal too...
she found if introducing new females to the herd that wernt related she had to clean out the pen first and move things around then reintroduce everyone back to the "new" space together...

as long as everyone whent in together things seemed to go fine...the occasinal tiff over who gets the prime nesting box ect...but the worst injury she had was an ear nick on a young female who tried to take over the senior does choosen box.

i do think the key is aboslutly giving them enough room...
i dont think you could sucessfully colony raise even 2 does in a space smaller than 4x8...infact i think 2 standard size meaties in a 10x10 would be seriously pushing it in terms of territory.
also breeds seem to play a part too, ive found some breeds of rabbit are more suited for colony raising, rex tend to do well in "sisterhoods" ive had good luck with english and holland lops raised this way too
i have a friend in the UK who raises belgian hares in large colonies and they do incredibly well (mabe too well, her herd exploded LOL!)
english spot and dutch both tend to be hit or miss, they both seem to need more space to prevent terrotory issues.
when i was growing up id never heard about the NZ or cali so i cant say from experience how they do ect...but im certain breed can definatly play a part just as much as individual rabbit and space given.

im planning on keeping a journal of the progress i think it would be good to keep track of everything for people who are realy interested in doing this in a less "intensive farming" type way
i never liked the idea of rabbits on wire and i hate the idea of rabbits on pellet food when theres free food thats much better for them growing in the dirt lol.
probbaly the "silly idealistic euorpean" in me.

its interesting to compare the differences in how meat rabbits are raised in the uk vs the usa...but the same can be said about many animals for that matter lol.
not saying other methods are bad, i 100% feel that everyone needs to do this the way that works best for them, if thats cages, wire hutches, sheds open air ect then thats deinfalty how you need to go about it...
i dont belive theres a WRONG way of doing things...just different ways.
i just dont want people to automatically rule out colony/pasture raising simply because its not common in the US and theres not as much experience with it.

switzerland is having GREAT sucess with colonies right now and the uk is trying to encorage more of the "commercial" rabbitries to follow that lead (which is what alot of backyarders have been doing for years lol.)

personally i think colony raising if done right is a little more labor intensive...you still have to bring the does to the buck, record keeping has to be MUCH stricter (because often does will rkindle and raise together so you have to be more watchfull of whos lines are whos ect... and theres more work involved in keeping good grazing for the rabbits (rotating pasture, seeding ect to make sure they do have grass/greenery underfoot rather than just dirt...
some obviously dont do this end up with dirt pens and have to feed just as much feed and hay to make up for it...but im hoping to avoid that by using some pasture rotation methods since i do have the room to do it with 

if space is an issue though, the traditional way is definatly the best choice, colony raising requires an extreem amount of space to keep the does happy lol


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## Ms. Research (Dec 25, 2011)

I have to say I think you have something there regarding breed.  I think a certain breed is more tolerable of individuals than others.  And I also look at it another way, this is a very important strategy to the rabbit line.  Europe has done this for years as you noted and is an acceptable breeding pattern.  It how it all started.

I'm so glad you are going to write a journal.  I think you can show others how to successfully do colony breeding.  After reading your reply, I'm looking forward to following your strategy.  Sounds very interesting.  

K


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## WorthItFarms (Jan 8, 2012)

We are working on a type of "colony" setting incorperated with a pasture/grass-based diet. We have Silver Fox right now, so it will take time to select for ones that survive well in this situation. For now, we keep sisters or mother/daughter pairs together. The bucks like to be near each other so they share a divided home. We have large hoop-style tractors measuring 6'X12'. They have a raised, split nestbox inside for them to kindle in. We don't have to worry much about them digging out since they are a generally docile, lowenergy breed and the tractors are moved every few days. They are still offered pellets free choice since they aren't bred to live solely on grass - yet. They get hay when the weather is crappy or cold - like now. We are going to install autowaterers like the ones in chicken coops since it will reduce the workload. We haven't had any babies kindled in the tractors yet, but hopefully by spring we should have our first ones. As long as the pairs (or young, unbred trios) are raised together they seem to continue to get along well. We have had to separate one very dominant sister, but so far that's the only one. Males are introduced to the females just as they would be as if in wire cages. Pedigrees and growth records are carefully kept. Since it's an endangered breed, we also calculate and regulate the amount of inbreeding (amazingly math DOES come in handy in adulthood, lol). 

We don't have much of a predator problem, other than the neighbor's beagles (they are rabbit hunting dogs, so it's hard to blame them) or the roaming Catahoula hound. To keep it that way, we have all the tractors enclosed inside an electric fence with some large, HORNED Spanish goats nearby and a collection of noisy geese and ducks. Between all the other animals, there is little hope for a predator to get through without us noticing. Our husky is their biggest true danger. Electric fences do NOT stop her. She has to be accompanied outside lest she decide she can make supper out of them. 

We are going to get some American Chinchillas and possibly some BEW Beverens to try this method with. We will mix the breeds occasionally to offer lower priced heritage meat rabbits and to increase hardiness. Depending on what breed develops best with this method, we will narrow down to one large meat breed. 

I think this method will prove to work very well. There seems to be a lot of interest in pasture and/or colony raising rabbits and it would be nice to have a solution to offer those other breeders.


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## AZ Rabbits (Jan 9, 2012)

PinkFox said:
			
		

> im from the uk origionally where pasture and colony raising rabbits is ALOT more common AND in the RIGHT situation can be just as effective (and sometimes actually better)





			
				PinkFox said:
			
		

> (she bred each doe no more than 3 times a year but usually only twice)





			
				PinkFox said:
			
		

> she obviously wasnt a comerical breeder, but i certianly woudl call her a SERIOUS breeder...he relied on those rabbits (along with every other animal on their 1 acre homestead) to feed them...if a rabbit didnt produce they whent hungry ect...so it definatly wasnt "just for fun"


I think one point here is although she might have had a "serious" need for the rabbit meat, she was a very "casual" breeder. If you're only breeding a rabbit 2 and sometimes 3 times a year, you are not effectively breeding a meat rabbit. Not even close. So I think it's a far stretch so say it's just as effective or better based upon that information. 

That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with colonizing. Different customs and rabbit raising methods are great. But it just can't be compared to a cage raised, single unit per rabbit, purposeful breeding program when results are being measured. If you are looking at effective meat production, colony style will never even come close.

Thank you for sharing though. It is really interesting to hear how people raise rabbits around the world and through history.


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## doo dah (Jan 13, 2012)

PinkFox do let us know how it goes!  I'm always interested in learning new ways to keep rabbits (I don't have any yet, but I'm learning).


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## PinkFox (Jan 13, 2012)

i will deifnaty keep updated 

i got my first 2 does yesterday, there currently hutched as im on a tight budget and havent yet built the doe pen.
planning on building another 2 hutches before the end of the month and then building the doe pen by the end of february.

itll be interesting to see how this works out, ive gone with stanrad rex's for a number of reasons, and its a breed my grandmother had great sucess with (and as a breed they tend to be known to do well with "company" as opposed to many other breeds.)
right now the plan is 4-6 hutches, 2 of which will house bucks, then keeping 2 hutches for kindling and seperating out/iso hutches.

im hoping to eventually have 4-6 does who'll be bred semi intensivly for, litters in spring and fall,  theyll be "on rest" during the hottest months and coldest months.  this way im not "fighting" nature here in tn by trying to raise babies during the hottest and very coldest times (the coldest is more for my own benefit i HATE the cold lol)


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## Beekissed (Jan 13, 2012)

I can see where, if actually _managed_, the colonizing of rabbits could be good for a homesteading type situation where they wish to raise them a little more cheaply, more naturally, and less with an eye towards production for sale as an eye for production for filling the freezer. 

I think a person would have to play with it a little, find breeds or individual animals that live best in these conditions and then determine the efficacy of the method in regards to feed costs/time and labor/production.  Just as with any livestock, one usually has to find a method they'd like to try or they think will fit into their ideal of animal husbandry and then provide the best life for the animals as well as their pocketbook.  

I've read and visited sites where people are raising pigs in herds, with the boars present during the birthings, communal raising of the piglets, foraging/grazing is accomplished to supplement feeding, etc.  From what I could see these people weren't in it for maximum production, like a commercial livestock situation, but they were making a profit on their pigs, raising them in a natural and healthier environment, providing a better lifestyle for them and also suffering less illnesses, birthing difficulties, etc. in their overall setups.  

I hesitate to scorn the method unless I've tried it and found it to be not viable for my needs/income/space/for the animal's well being.  

I have to bite my tongue every time someone on BYC says you can't free range a chicken flock without suffering constant predator loss, loss of egg production from laying out, diseases from the range environment infecting your flocks, etc.   I've done it for years and quite successfully, cheaply, with high levels of production, so I KNOW it can be done, whereas they gave it a weak attempt, didn't research it thoroughly, nor did they implement proper measures to insure success, and then announced it impossible to achieve.

I'd say it would take some time and some tweaking, but it could be done if a person actually _managed_ the animal's breeding, feeding, and housing/pasturing and then measured results against cage style husbandry.


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## xa.logan (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm a bit curious. Does rabbit taste any more gamy if raised in a colony? Since they have much more space, it makes sense that they run a bit more and I assume that results in a tougher, gamier meat. But I don't know, that's why I'm asking.


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