# New to raising goats



## trebuhs12 (Jul 19, 2012)

I'm new to raising goats, and was given several young nubians (about 2 years old) they don't seem very healthy though... their coats are very rough and curl upwards slightly, and I'm on my second doe that is going through a very listless phase during which they don't seem to be interested at all in eating (including the sweet mix) The other goat perked up after a few days, but this one seems to be going down hill a bit more. She was doing really well milking, and her milk production is down as well.

Any advice?

I did ask about worming... they have been wormed but are about due for another dose.


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 19, 2012)

I'd have a fecal ran by a vet.  
If they've been dewormed on a schedule, chances are it's not working anymore because of resistance....deworming repeatedly w/ the same (or the wrong) dewormer w/out knowing if they need it, causes the worms to become stronger / harder to kill.  So then you have to find something stronger / better.  Problem is, there are only a few goat dewormers out there, and most parasites are becoming immune to some or all.

Goats should be dewormed only when needed, with the right dewormer, at the right dose, preferably on an empty stomach.

We check our goat's eyelids (pale = anemia = usually means barberpole worm), coat condition, overall behavior, etc. often and have fecals ran as needed.  I don't have to deworm often, but you need to know which dewormers work on which worms.  For instance, ivermectin won't work on tape worms, period.

Is she getting / has she been getting - loose mineral?  Goats have higher / different mineral needs than other hoofstock, they *need* a good loose goat mineral, not a block.

When you say, sweet feed, is it a goat-specific sweet feed or an all-stock?  Our dairy does get 16% goat sweet mix in milk, topdressed w/ B.O.S.S. (black oil sunflower seed).
I'll add a handful of calf manna to my 'skinny' does ration on the milk stand, too.

Is she getting alfalfa hay or grass?

I'd start w/ the fecal, chances are she's got a parasite issue, and then adjust your feeding practices if needed.  Good luck and


----------



## trebuhs12 (Jul 19, 2012)

Thanks for your help.

 They (there are four of them - only one acting really off) are all thin and have rough coats. I've been giving them a corn, oats and barley sweet feed that was recommended by the local feed store for a little less than a week. They do have a salt block, but I don't think it is anything other than salt, and we have a lot of trace minerals (like selenium) naturally occurring in the soil, so I am leery about giving them something with extra minerals in it. I tried giving them some baking soda when the other doe was out of sorts, but none of them seemed interested. Right now, this particular doe is spending most of her time alone, she'll graze a little bit, but isn't interested in hay (and alfalfa/grass mix) or grain. She does have 2 2mos old kids with her as well. The other doe that was acting out kind of did the same thing, but she's doing a lot better now.

Can any vet run a fecal? We don't have very many livestock vets around here...

Is there any chance that they are just adjusting to a new location? I've only had them for about a week. This doe was pretty active and a good milker the first few days, while the other was more listless, now they have traded places and attitudes. If they didn't have collars, I would almost think I had them mixed up.


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 20, 2012)

Any vet should be able to run the fecal....but if they don't "know" goats, I'm not sure I'd ask their advice on what to do about the results.

Mineral Blocks won't do goats any good, they're unable to 'lick' enough to get what they need.  Some can even break teeth trying to bite them.  Salt blocks are basically useless.

Rough coats are caused by poor diet, parasites, and mineral shortage.  Does tend to have parasite 'blooms' post-kidding.  
A doe trying to feed 2 kids, and who's being milked, AND carrying a parasite load...isn't going to do well and possibly won't last long.

I'd dry her off, wean her kids, improve her diet, have a fecal ran, and find out from local goat producers who've had them long-term what sort of minerals you do need to offer.

Stress from moving didn't make her coat rough.  It may be affecting her (stress is a trigger) but there is more going on.  You asked because you recognize there may be a problem....A goat who doesn't do much / isn't interested in food isn't 'right'.


----------



## trebuhs12 (Jul 20, 2012)

I agree! I knew her coat wasn't right when I got her. I did grow up with goats, but that was along time ago, and I wasn't always involved in every aspect of their care. I do recognize that these goats are not terribly healthy and am hoping to do whatever I can to help them out.

 I'm trying to sell the kids - I don't have space to keep them separate. 

Do you know anything about the herbal wormers? I've been researching them, and I'm interested in trying them - any recommendations? Also, is there anything diet wise I can do to improve her coat? I'll head into the feed store and get a loose mineral tomorrow, gave them all some baking soda today, but are there any particular grains that are better. Our local feed store on;y had two kinds of sweet mix, and I'm willing to mix my own if I know what to put into it.

Again, thanks for your help!


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 20, 2012)

You can look in the "organic husbandry-goats" section for info on herbal dewormers.  I'll get in trouble if I say what I think about them.  

"Sweet feed" that isn't specifically labeled for goats probably won't have the proper protein / TDN they need in their diet.  I feed our goats, "Goat Feed".
(yes, they'll survive on sweet feed.  But they will never produce the amount of milk that you want, or 'thrive' as they would on goat feed.)

We use Purina Noble Goat for kids and Goat Chow for adults, from TSC.  It's pricier than sweet feed, yes, but our goats look good, do well, and produce like crazy.  
If you can't get Purina, ADM and Nutrena both have 'goat' specific lines.  

I've had goats almost 20 yrs and I won't attempt to mix their feed....I'm not a nutritionist....the feed companies put a lot of time and effort to have the proper feed mixed, that's good enough for me.

Aside from top dressing w/ BOSS and Calf Manna for my heavy milkers.  And Alfalfa, alfalfa, alfalfa.  Use pellets if they'll eat them....but ALFALFA for milkers / adding protein to the diet.

I'm also a big fan of B vitamin shots and Probios.  I 'fix' 90% of what ails my herd by acting quickly w/ those 2 things.  
(But I will use dewormers and antibiotics when necessary.)


----------



## trebuhs12 (Jul 20, 2012)

I'll get some alfalfa pellets at the feed store as well. I don't think they offered anything specific for goats, but I'll check around, maybe a nearby town has something else.

Where would I get the probios? 

I don't know anything at all about giving shots... is there something else I could give them?

I'm worried about this doe... she ate a little bit this morning, but she is spending most of her time laying down whereas the others are all out grazing.


----------



## SheepGirl (Jul 20, 2012)

What's her temp?


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jul 20, 2012)

*This is just me and I might get yelled at but I would give her a shot of Penicillin~ I had two does that were doing something similar and right after that they perked up. 

I do agree with Rolls though~ I was doing everything Rolls has suggested and they were still acting "off" so I started them on the Penicillin. *


----------



## trebuhs12 (Jul 20, 2012)

I don't know anything about giving shots... I'm new to raising livestock - I've got a decent flock of chickens, dogs and a cat... but livestock is new... 

I'm open to any advice! (On giving shots or otherwise...)


----------



## autumnprairie (Jul 20, 2012)

minerals and probios and wormer can be found at a place like TSC Tractor supply, I would personally use a regular wormer now and not an herbal IMHO. If you have a tsc you can get goat feeds too


----------



## trebuhs12 (Jul 20, 2012)

We don't have a TSC. There is only a small feed store here, locally owned. About 2 hours away we have a Big R ( I think that's it) and I think another feed store... forget what it is called.


----------



## redtailgal (Jul 20, 2012)

It's generally not a good idea to give just a shot of penicillin.  Anytime antibiotics are given they need to be given the FULL dose for the FULL amount of time.  Anything less is nothing more than "vaccinating" the bacteria against future antibiotic use.......this is how "super bugs" are created.

If you give any antibiotics, please read the label and/or consult with your vet and give it properly......full dose and full duration.


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 20, 2012)

I give nearly every shot in the butt cheek area, in the muscle....simply b/c that's how I've always done it and it was a good 10 yrs before I found out you "shouldn't".
When you insert the needle, draw back a bit and make sure there's no blood coming out, then inject it.  You can practice on fruit if you want.

B vitamin I dose at 5cc per 100# of goat for adults, 2cc for kids (they just pee out any extra).  Go to Fiasco Farms.com and check it out.  There's probably a pictorial there showing how to give shots.  I use 20 ga 1/2" or 3/4" needles for B vitamin, 18 ga for "thick" medications, like Pen G.  I use 3cc and 6cc syringes the most.

I get the majority of my supplies through Jeffer's Livestock.  MUCH cheaper w/ a 'big' herd to buy in bulk than to go to a farm store, but for a small herd it's not always practical.

B vitamin gives energy and helps their appetite.  It sounds like she could use it.  I have a product called, "Red Cell" that I keep on hand, to 'boost' goats.  There's other products, Nutri Drench, etc. that will help, too.

If they haven't had any vaccinations, you should get CD&T vaccine.  They need a 1st dose, then boosted again in 3-4 wks, 2cc ea. time (no matter how old / weight).  Then boosted annually.

A Big R should carry goat feed, mineral, probios, etc.   In a pinch, plain cultured yogurt will work as a probiotic, but there's 'more' good bugs in the probios.

The Fiasco Farm has lots of info on goat care.  

You jumped in w/ both feet and that's great...but now you need to read up / learn so that the goats get what they need.


----------



## trebuhs12 (Jul 20, 2012)

I definitely jumped in with both feet! I have been studying... I just wasn't planning on starting with sick goats! I do appreciate all your help, this site has been great! Again, any advice at all is welcome!


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jul 20, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> It's generally not a good idea to give just a shot of penicillin.  Anytime antibiotics are given they need to be given the FULL dose for the FULL amount of time.  Anything less is nothing more than "vaccinating" the bacteria against future antibiotic use.......this is how "super bugs" are created.
> 
> If you give any antibiotics, please read the label and/or consult with your vet and give it properly......full dose and full duration.


*
This is true. I didn't mean to intone that I just gave 'one' shot. My vet suggested 2 cc's twice a day for three days and that is what I did. Just meant that that they got a lot better after one shot...

You REALLY need to learn how to give shots if your going to have livestock, crucial IMHO.

The easiest way to give a shot is subcutaneously (sub-q) all you are doing is pulling up on the skin to create a "tent" and injecting the sustance into the open area. Always pull back on the plunger first though to make sure there is no blood (your not in a vein).

These might help... *

http://www.drugs.com/cg/how-to-give-a-subcutaneous-injection.html


----------



## marlowmanor (Jul 20, 2012)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> redtailgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a very useful picture. I've always wondered exactly how to do the SQ shots. Now I get the idea of it. Thank you for sharing that.


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Jul 20, 2012)

There is a much easier way to give SQ shots.


----------



## trebuhs12 (Jul 20, 2012)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> redtailgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! This photo is really helpful! I know I need to learn to do shots... puppies and kittens is one thing, livestock is another matter.... I'm learning a lot though! Maybe quicker than I had planned, but all necessary knowledge.


----------

