# 160 lbs of fodder per day



## bjjohns (May 11, 2013)

160 lbs of fodder per day. That is a whole bunch of feed. I posted this in goats, but it goes to goats, horses, rabbits, and even some of it winds up in the chickens. If you decide to go to a fodder system I have a couple of hints:

1) Drip fodder systems (where the trays have holes) are the absolute easiest to build and maintain.
2) If you can use a saw (any saw) and a drill, you can build one yourself. guaranteed.
3) Price shop before you buy your components. Do it online. (Try green house megastore for pvc parts and trays, was the best price when I shopped).
4) Make sure that if you buy a pro system (Like FarmTeks) that you can EASILY clean it (You can't easily clean theirs)
5) Environment temperature has an amazing effect on growth, both too hot and too cold.
6) Light is more your friend than I originally thought.
7) Try different seeds. Wheat works MUCH better than barley for us here in ohio.
8) It does require daily maintenance. Be prepared. At least you are inside and not out in the weather 

Right half of this pic has been in production most of the winter, left half started 4 days ago:






This was the original two systems, it produces about 40lbs a day:





40lbs of dinner out for delivery:


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## sprocket (May 11, 2013)

Interesting stuff!  I've been looking at getting a system going this summer for our goats.  Some questions for you:

How're you draining the trays?  Do they drain into a trough that carries away the water?

Are the trays just the cheap seedling starter trays or the heavy duty hydroponic ones?

Are you able to get them up to a harvestable size by about 6-7 days?  How're you maintaining temperature in your grow room?

It looks like you've built your shelving out of PVC pipe - what diameter did you use, and how much weight to you figure it's able to carry?

Thanks!


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## bjjohns (May 11, 2013)

Great questions, so here we go:



			
				sprocket said:
			
		

> Interesting stuff!  I've been looking at getting a system going this summer for our goats.  Some questions for you:
> 
> How're you draining the trays?  Do they drain into a trough that carries away the water?


Yes, we drilled the holes so that all the drain holes were consistent. If you look carefully at the pics, you will see pieces of 3" pvc cut in half working as drain troughs.





			
				sprocket said:
			
		

> Are the trays just the cheap seedling starter trays or the heavy duty hydroponic ones?


In-between. It's heavier than the super-cheap trays, but no-where near the 1/16" trays that the pro systems use. I'm pretty happy with them.



			
				sprocket said:
			
		

> Are you able to get them up to a harvestable size by about 6-7 days?  How're you maintaining temperature in your grow room?


Spring, Winter, & Fall (Ohio) - 8 shelves = 8 days (the wheat is a tad slower than barley). Over the winter, the furnace maintained the heat, now that I've added a bunch of CFL bulbs (less than 400 watts), I'm guessing the bulbs will be the heat source.




			
				sprocket said:
			
		

> It looks like you've built your shelving out of PVC pipe - what diameter did you use, and how much weight to you figure it's able to carry?


The second system was 1.5" pvc built straight from plans we bought here . The first was big lowes shelves with a "gutter" or "eavestrough" system, and was much more expensive. The last one was 1.5" vertical columns of PVC with standard 6'x20" vinyl covered closet shelves. The last one produces 12 trays@ 10 lbs per day consistently and cost less than the rest per lb of fodder


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## alsea1 (May 12, 2013)

What does it cost to produce this fodder


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## bjjohns (May 12, 2013)

alsea1 said:
			
		

> What does it cost to produce this fodder


Wheat seed is $15 for 50lbs right now for us. We use 25lbs a day, so the seed cost is roughly $7.50. The pump runs 4x a day for 4minutes at a time, and the lights stay on 24 hours a day. Total power consumption is roughly 370 watts/hour with the lights on. I don't know what I am paying for electric right now - no bill handy. Water comes from a well, and is about 30 gallons every 3rd day.

I would say, barring labor, about $10 a day for 160lbs of feed.


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## sprocket (May 12, 2013)

What was the difference in growth with the lights on vs lights off?  From what I'd read, the seads are just relying on stored nutrients for growth and there was minimal photosynthesis going on, so lights were somewhat optional.  (I believe I'd read they'll look greener with lights, but still grow alright without.)

Thanks!


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## bjjohns (May 12, 2013)

sprocket said:
			
		

> What was the difference in growth with the lights on vs lights off?  From what I'd read, the seads are just relying on stored nutrients for growth and there was minimal photosynthesis going on, so lights were somewhat optional.  (I believe I'd read they'll look greener with lights, but still grow alright without.)
> 
> Thanks!


I've got it in a basement that use to have a garage door. I've removed that door and put in an insulated wall, but the temps still vary quite a bit. What I am trying to say is that I have not yet determined the differences in growing temps vs light availability. The place is a very dark cave when no lights are on.

At any given temp for a week, the lights provide about 20-30% of the growth. The temps seem to provide about 50% of the growth. As I get things more organized (read temp controlled), I'll have a better idea.

The second system had LED light ropes, and that provided no where near the growth of the first system that had one CFL per LARGE tray.

Hope that helps.


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## sodamancer (May 13, 2013)

This is awesome!  I want to produce enough for my backyard goat herd as well as my rabbits and chickens.  I am currently only growing enough for my 3 rabbits and ten chickens so 6lbs a day. 1.5lbs for the rabbits (none have kindled yet) and 4lbs for the chickens. I am still supplementing with pellets because we just started the switch 2 weeks ago.  So far though the results are looking great. the chickens love it, the rabbits are finally loving it, and i love that i am not feeding pellets. 

How much fodder does a milk doe need? I have 3 goats. One full grown nubian/boer cross who is pregnant, 1 nigerian 4wks old, 1 lamancha 5wks old. i would love fodder advice for goats!

here is my set up









I keep my fodder rack in the garage, no lights, just two shaded windows.  it grows very well without light. it does stay a consistent 67 degrees.  
I weigh out 1 pound of barely seed and soak it overnight. 
I put it in a 14x11 tray
water 3x a day
8 days later i have 6lbs of fodder


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## porkchop48 (May 13, 2013)

COuld I grow fodder in my green house or would it be too warm?

I would love to try this on a small scale for the goats.


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## bjjohns (May 17, 2013)

sodamancer said:
			
		

> This is awesome!  I want to produce enough for my backyard goat herd as well as my rabbits and chickens.  I am currently only growing enough for my 3 rabbits and ten chickens so 6lbs a day. 1.5lbs for the rabbits (none have kindled yet) and 4lbs for the chickens. I am still supplementing with pellets because we just started the switch 2 weeks ago.  So far though the results are looking great. the chickens love it, the rabbits are finally loving it, and i love that i am not feeding pellets.
> 
> How much fodder does a milk doe need? I have 3 goats. One full grown nubian/boer cross who is pregnant, 1 nigerian 4wks old, 1 lamancha 5wks old. i would love fodder advice for goats!
> 
> ...


Sorry I missed this somehow. During milking the ful lsize goats (Saanens, Alpines, and Lamanchas) eat about 4 lbs per milking ( or 8 lbs per day). The dwarf has three babies and has no excess milk yet. Please keep in mind they are ALSO eating the fodder when we do general feeding and we have NO idea how much more they are eating then.

Hope that helps.

Here is a few (grin) "Fodder while milking" pics. I have not yet built a bigger feed tray for the fodder (It's bulkier than the grain we use to use).
LaBamba the Lamancha:





Montana:





Sonny the Saanen:


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## bjjohns (May 17, 2013)

porkchop48 said:
			
		

> COuld I grow fodder in my green house or would it be too warm?
> 
> I would love to try this on a small scale for the goats.


Most of what I have read says you can. I plan on building a hoop style green house and giving it a try this year or next. I can tell you that there is a very specific lower temp where the seeds will not grow, and that temperature is different for different seed types. I assume (you know what that word means right?) that there is a similar problem somewhere at the higher end of the temperature scale - but I have not gotten there, yet.


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## Sippie (May 30, 2013)

What a neat system. Another to add to the 'to do list'!


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## babsbag (May 30, 2013)

Any place in particular that you found the plans for your system?


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## bjjohns (May 30, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> Any place in particular that you found the plans for your system?


There is a lady here selling plans  for the second system we bought. They were worthwhile, as it showed me how to quickly reduce some of the major costs of my first system.

We took the water delivery part, modified to add a water hose 5-way valve, and pvc 'gutters', replaced the pvc shelves with a cheaper option, added lights, and went to town. I'd gladly post dimensions of the stuff I did, but won't step on her toes to post what we got from her plans.


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## babsbag (May 31, 2013)

bjjohns said:
			
		

> babsbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. I respect you for not giving out her plans. But it is good to know that what she offers is of value.

I looked at a commercial system in a trailer a few months ago and was going to cost about 10,000.00. If I had that kind of money to spend I probably wouldn't own animals 

I am hoping to build one soon, just looking for a place to keep it in the winter. I will be building a new barn in a year and should probably think about incorporating space for this into my plans. Barn is getting bigger...


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## bjjohns (May 31, 2013)

Not that much bigger. That system uses up about 50 sq ft. You WILL need access to water. You could spend a little more up front and make all the pumps and stuff DC, run it solar with maybe one deep cycle battery and stick it in a hoop-house greenhouse , if local code permit. I built a 20' wide by 48' long by 10' centerline tall version using used billboard tarps  for less than $1000.00 It's good to note that often local sign shops will sell/give you these for MUCH cheaper as they are expensive as all get out to ship 

We want to move ours outdoors year-round, and will. It's just going to take a bit. We need to build a greenhouse anyways, so it might be a fall project.


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## Harbisgirl (Jun 3, 2013)

Awesome system, thank you for sharing. I don't suppose you have more pics? I'd love to see some close up shots of your trays, sprayers, lights and gutter. Also, which trays did you get from the greenhouse mega store? I see generic trays with holes for sale all over, but I'm worried that I'll get some where the holes are too big and the seeds will fall out.


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## grover (Nov 4, 2013)

This is great information and very encouraging! For the last year I've been growing wheat fodder for my chickens. They LOVE it. We are planning to get sheep next year and I'd like to increase my production (lots) to supply them, too. With my little system, I soak the wheat seeds in a bleach/water mixture for 24 hours to start. I also use bleach in the drainage bin so the water doesn't have to be changed out as often because of smelliness (the system is in my kitchen). The soak in bleach prevents mold that was a problem for me at first. I just use my kitchen sink sprayer to water. Obviously my little system is going to have to go through some major changes to accommodate a flock of ruminants!
I'm looking for a system that does not stink or grow mold, that has an auto-watering system and easy drainage and cleaning, and that does not have to be rotated. Basically I want more for less work! It sounds like you have that--right?


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## jodief100 (Nov 4, 2013)

Not to rain on anyone's parade here but.....  

I have read a lot of research on these fodder systems and they are not as cost effective as it looks.  That 160 lbs of fodder is about 80%-90% water.  Goats need 4% of their body weight a day in DRY matter.  If you feed a high percentage of fodder, they will not be able to consume their daily requirements in nutrition- too much water.  

They are a great addition to your feed program giving you healthy, fresh greens year round but be careful you balance it with dry matter (hay) and understand your true costs.  160 lbs of fodder contains 15-30 lbs of dry matter.  That is what your yield is.  

FYI- the research indicates it does increase milk yields in sheep though it hasn't been proven in goats.  It is also much more cost effective for non-ruminants like chickens, rabbits and horses than it is for ruminants like sheep and goats.


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## bjjohns (Nov 4, 2013)

We are generally obsessive about feed analysis and feed development. I think you might be looking at numbers that do not include the entire fed product. I can't give you last years numbers, but I will give you this years when we restart the system in a few weeks.

I will tell you the numbers were remarkably similar to spring pasture when we did them.


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## bjjohns (Nov 4, 2013)

Harbisgirl said:
			
		

> Awesome system, thank you for sharing. I don't suppose you have more pics? I'd love to see some close up shots of your trays, sprayers, lights and gutter. Also, which trays did you get from the greenhouse mega store? I see generic trays with holes for sale all over, but I'm worried that I'll get some where the holes are too big and the seeds will fall out.


Somehow I missed this, and it is old. Sorry, hope you get this. We used the un-drilled trays from greenhouse megastore, and drilled them with a 1/16" drill bit to match our gutter system.

I'll try and get a few more pics up soon. We are getting ready to restart the system after a summer off (turns out high temps and humidity make it grow mold quickly, bad idea).


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## bjjohns (Nov 4, 2013)

grover said:
			
		

> This is great information and very encouraging! For the last year I've been growing wheat fodder for my chickens. They LOVE it. We are planning to get sheep next year and I'd like to increase my production (lots) to supply them, too. With my little system, I soak the wheat seeds in a bleach/water mixture for 24 hours to start. I also use bleach in the drainage bin so the water doesn't have to be changed out as often because of smelliness (the system is in my kitchen). The soak in bleach prevents mold that was a problem for me at first. I just use my kitchen sink sprayer to water. Obviously my little system is going to have to go through some major changes to accommodate a flock of ruminants!
> I'm looking for a system that does not stink or grow mold, that has an auto-watering system and easy drainage and cleaning, and that does not have to be rotated. Basically I want more for less work! It sounds like you have that--right?


In high temps and humidity it does grow mold. Even adding a dehumidifier did not help much. We are discussing making the system non-recycling. It only runs 4 minutes 4 times a day. When you try and use the  catchment system, that tends to need cleaned often (of course added work), and really does not add much cost benefit compared to letting the system run, and then having the effluent run off to a garden or compost pile, where it could be useful. Our hold-up is that we can't quite figure out how to keep the drain line running outside to keep from freezing in the winter.

In the cold days (and nights) of the winter, mold and slime are not that big of a deal. In the spring and fall, they can be a lot of work to deal with.

Hope that helps.


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## grover (Nov 4, 2013)

Thank you bjjohns! Let us know how the developments go


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## madcow (Feb 11, 2014)

I am very interested in doing a fodder system for my goats and chickens.  Do you have updates on how it's working for you, as I would love to know.  Also, what type of seed are you using for your goats' fodder?  I'm a little torn in deciding whether this system is cost effective and whether your goats are getting everything they need from the fodder and supplementing with hay.  As I understand it, most goats will do ok with just browse if there are sufficient amounts available year round, which is difficult in the winter and I would think that the fodder would provide that as the main component in their diets.  Any information would be appreciated!  Thanks!


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