# Underground Electric Dog fencing for goats?



## whetzelmomma

So here's the deal. We live on 7 and 1/2 acres, a lot of which would be AMAZING brush for our goats. Three sides of our land are fenced, but one side has spotty and missing fencing. A lot of which is solid rock, so driving fence stakes would be pretty much impossible. On top of THAT, we rent, and even though our landlord allows us freedom to do pretty much what ever we'd like to the place, I'd really rather NOT pour our money into permanent fencing for HIM. The area that has the missing fencing is between our house and our relatives. The main road and other neighbors are securely fenced off from the goats with farm fencing topped with barbed wire.

So I've been thinking. Electric fencing works on goats. I know this. But reffering back to that part where there's solid rock to deal with, that's not such a simple solution. 

I had the idea today, that the underground electric fencing for dogs would probably work. So my question is really a couple of them.

I know that I will still have predators to deal with. In my area, these are mostly night time predators, and I'm considering a LGD. So lets assume for my questions sake, that I've got predators taken care of.

In my mind, this is how the system would work:

I have Nigerian Dwarf Dairy goats, just so you know what size animal we're talking for my circumstances.

Run the fencing along the ground, without burying it. (I may lay it into some pipe for safety)

To give the goats a visual line to stay away from, I'd run some ribbon tape along the line a few feet off the ground. (there is brush and things that I can tie the ribbon to, that would keep it at eye level for the goats.)

Put a collar on each goat. (I will only have around 5 at any given time.)

*
So here are my questions:*
1. Has anyone tried something like this? Can you tell me about it? Was it successful? 

2. Does underground fencing HAVE to be underground? I can't see why it does, other than to hide it. 

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers my questions!! I'd really like to allow my goats the freedom to really get around. I do have a nice enclosure, but I have so much area that they would LOVE and I'd like to be able to get them to it.


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## patandchickens

The thing is, 'prey' type animals (horses and sheep for sure, also I am quite certain goats fall into the same category) do NOT respond the same way to an electric shock in the neck area as a dog will.

A dog will be startled and then stop and think, giving it an opportunity to learn.

A horse/sheep/goat will go "aaauuuggghh!" and run away in hysterics, quite likely in the wrong direction altogether. Learning nothing other than to have hysterics and run far far away from your property.

Your other problem is that dog-style underground fencing will do exactly zero to keep out stray dogs/coyotes/etc that are looking for a quick goat curry for lunch.

There are ways to triangularly-brace posts atop solid rock, and then use pos-neutral wire configurations to get some reasonable degree of shock (on a conventional electric fence). That would be your better bet by far.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## whetzelmomma

Thanks for the thoughts. As I said, I'm not worried about the predator part. IMO the goats wouldn't be any more exposed to them with more space than they are now. My fencing is not predator proof on their pen, and I'm considering an LGD. 

Do you not think that the visual rope type fencing I mentioned wouldn't be a good enough boundary to keep them from running the wrong way? There's also an auditory sound that comes before they reach the shock point. Have you tried this type of fencing? I'm really interested to hear from those who HAVE, and how well it worked for them...


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## Ariel301

It would probably not stop them. If it briefly shocks them while they run over, they'll just run over, they don't think "Oh, it shocked me, turn around and go the other way", they think, "PANIC! RUN!" and go forward. They will probably even eventually learn to tolerate the shock in order to cross the boundary. (If they have a good reason to go over there) I have seen horses do this with regular elecrtic wire, they learn that if they hit it really hard, it shocks them once, breaks, and then they are free. 

A single rope tied across an area is not a visual barrier to goats. I tried putting one into a temporary horse corral with six strands of electric wire, a foot apart, all with flags on them for visibility...she climbed right through within an hour.


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## whetzelmomma

Thanks! I wish I could try it and see... because I've googled, and there are sites saying that people have had success with this system, but not personal accounts OF that success.


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## Beekissed

Five different collars may run into expense and the line won't work well in snows, so if you get snows, this might be an issue.  

Also, unless this is a small space to cover, this would be a lot of pipe.  I've never used it on sheep or goats but the wired fencing was worth crap for my dogs.  I now have a wireless system that is wonderful and never fails me.  

You might consider, if you have lots of rocks, making fence posts out of rolls of fencing and rocks.  I've seen this work very well where you can't drive a post and is relatively inexpensive...just a little labor intensive.  You just make a roll of woven wire fencing, stand it upright and fill it full of rocks.  Make sure, as you fill, that it is not leaning one way or the other.  

When full, it will be a very sturdy post on which to attach your wire and won't be considered permanent fencing...it can be taken down by clipping your "post" with wire cutters and letting the rocks fall where they are.


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## whetzelmomma

That's a great idea for posts!! And I do have a LOT of rock. River rock all over the place! Thanks for the idea!! What brand of wireless fencing are you using? The length I will be covering is less than 300 feet I think. Most of the kits I've been looking at come with 500 feet of wire.

Snow MAYBE once a year, and only 3-4 inches at best. During times like that I could pen the goats without trouble. I'll still have that area. Just looking for ways to let them out once in a while to brush when I can.


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## mistee

If you wanted to try the electric maaybe try training them first in a smaller area.. i know it wouldnt work for nigerians,, heck regular electric fencing wont work for them.. they know it it there and just get a good run and dart right through.... they hit it so fast i dont think they feel it....

i would also be a bit worried about leaving collars on my goats


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## whetzelmomma

They all have collars on them. The breeder I got them from keeps them on hers all year... 
HOLE
EE 
COW.
I have one Nubian that I'm selling, and she's a totally different kind of temperament than the Nigerians!! I know it wouldn't work on her, but my Nigerians are very easy going, and don't test the boundaries of their pen at all...


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## Hillbilly

Hi
I too have been looking at this form of control, after reading an article (type in a search engine - 'containment of free-ranging goats using pulsed-radio' should bring up the article of a study from a universtity.
I can't seem to get much information in England, it would be a very expensive Christmas present, esp. if it doesn't work, so I to am hoping for feedback. I only have 2 goats, but want to move the fence to keep giving them fresh grazing and browsing, as I understand it does not need to be underground, and snow should not affect the radio signal.


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## Hillbilly

Perhaps I should add - mine would be in front of a mesh field fence, to stop them jumping or standing on the mesh, and apparently the collars actually give off a bleep as a warning as they enter the area near the fence, before the actual shock. in the study they soon learned this.


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## Beekissed

whetzelmomma said:
			
		

> That's a great idea for posts!! And I do have a LOT of rock. River rock all over the place! Thanks for the idea!! What brand of wireless fencing are you using? The length I will be covering is less than 300 feet I think. Most of the kits I've been looking at come with 500 feet of wire.
> 
> Snow MAYBE once a year, and only 3-4 inches at best. During times like that I could pen the goats without trouble. I'll still have that area. Just looking for ways to let them out once in a while to brush when I can.


I use Petsafe brand wireless fencing.  I've had it for 5 years now and am impressed with the ease of use and how strong a charge it has compared to the inground system. 

 I just run extension cord to wherever I wish the center of my area to be and adjust the boundaries accordingly.  So easy to just dial a perimeter.  One drawback is your perimeter is circular and has a limit but one can buy two units and overlap if necessary.  

I have an acre and I don't widen my perimeter as far as it can go but the dogs still can cover almost the entire acre.  

The good part, one of many, is that it is so easy to install and remove....plug in the transmitter, put a collar on a dog, dial a perimeter.  My dogs didn't even need the flag markers for training.  

Another good feature is that, if by some weird reason, your animal should cross the boundary, it doesn't shock them as they re-enter the boundaries.


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## treeclimber233

I have also thought of using this system for my goats.  I already have the fence for my dog and it really works great for her.  I know it will not stop predators but most of them can get over fences already so a fence is not much help.  I am wondering if by tying the goat close to the underground fence so they can get close (and hear the signal) and learn to back away from the "danger area" if it would work.  That way if they panic the rope would stop them from running thru the signal. Putting up a visual boundry is a good idea.  I also have electric fence up for my horse but it seems to have no effect on my goats.  I am wondering if shaving the top of their necks would help get the shock to the skin.  I know hair is an insulator and if the wire does not touch the skin they will not get shocked.  Any feed back on either situation would be greatly appreciated.


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## whetzelmomma

The collars have prongs (for lack of a better word) that make it so that they make contact through dog's fur, so I don't think that would be an issue for goats. I really think that my goats are smart enough to learn this system...


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## mabeane

Last summer I was having problems with a baby buckling runnin into the street when I let my goats loose. (That meant the concerned Mama and friend chased him).   I bought a bright orange, flimsy snow fence and ran it loosely across the area during the day. It was a visual cue and they never charged it or knocked it over. Only thw wind did that.  ND see good about visual cues rather than electirc shocks.


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## whetzelmomma

mabeane said:
			
		

> Last summer I was having problems with a baby buckling runnin into the street when I let my goats loose. (That meant the concerned Mama and friend chased him).   I bought a bright orange, flimsy snow fence and ran it loosely across the area during the day. It was a visual cue and they never charged it or knocked it over. Only thw wind did that.  ND seem good about visual cues rather than electirc shocks.


That's good to know! Kind of what I was thinking, and that they might associate the visual of a not so sturdy "fence" with the shock, and not go near it. They do it with electric fencing to a degree, so I am hoping they will do the same with the fence. It's really not an area I think they will even go that often, but I don't want to allow them the chance to roam outside our boundaries.


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## cmjust0

Here's my question on invisible e-fencing for goats:

How do you get the collars on coyotes and stray dogs?


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## whetzelmomma

You don't. But as I stated before, I'm attacking that issue another way. What I'm asking here, is for trouble shooting and ideas on how to make such a system successful for containment.


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## Beekissed

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Here's my question on invisible e-fencing for goats:
> 
> How do you get the collars on coyotes and stray dogs?


You don't...you merely apply one to a big dog of your own.


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## whetzelmomma

Beekissed said:
			
		

> cmjust0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my question on invisible e-fencing for goats:
> 
> How do you get the collars on coyotes and stray dogs?
> 
> 
> 
> You don't...you merely apply one to a big dog of your own.
Click to expand...

 A big FLUFFY WHITE one!! lol


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## jlbpooh

That is a good one! I bet it would work too, LOL.


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## Beekissed

It does at my place.......


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## whetzelmomma

BEAUTIFUL. Way prettier than fencing. lol


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## Beekissed

The last stray dog that visited my place went home with less fur and blood than he had previously.  

The white one started at the front while the brown one started at the rear and promised to meet her in the middle.  

It was impressive, to say the least!


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## whetzelmomma

Beekissed said:
			
		

> The white one started at the front while the brown one started at the rear and promised to meet her in the middle.


LMAO I love that!! LGD are seriously going to be added by next year. They have got to be the single best invention EVER.


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## Beekissed

I just got two Newfie cross pups....not really considered LGD breeds but they are large, they bark, and they can be trained to guard a territory.  I'll let Chocolate Jake take care of the rest!  

Most wise investment one could make if you want to protect free ranging stock....makes my chickens *happy* chickens!!!  Both of these dogs were "Free to good home" dogs, as were the pups I just got.


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## whetzelmomma

I have a friend that has an Akbash. I wish she weren't fixed. I love that stinking dog. I would snatch up a billion of her puppies.


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