# Heard of the milk cliff? We're glad we've got goats!



## SkyWarrior (Dec 29, 2012)

Saw a news item on how milk prices could double:

Milk Cliff Article 

Milk at $7-$8 a gallon is scary.  Glad the girls are kidding in February!


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## PendergrassRanch (Dec 29, 2012)

Good thing I gave up cow milk years ago. I drink almond milk and even cook with it 

The man buys cow milk, won't touch goat products. He doesn't use it for much except cereal which he rarely eats. 

I hope the figure it out though. My elderly client will not be happy!


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## SkyWarrior (Dec 29, 2012)

PendergrassRanch said:
			
		

> Good thing I gave up cow milk years ago. I drink almond milk and even cook with it
> 
> The man buys cow milk, won't touch goat products. He doesn't use it for much except cereal which he rarely eats.
> 
> I hope the figure it out though. My elderly client will not be happy!


Almond milk?   Seriously?  Yes, I've tasted it.  No, I wouldn't drink it.

You vegan or intolerant?  That's the only thing I could think of that would keep one from drinking fresh goat's milk.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 29, 2012)

Yes - I just heard about it at Christmas.  My sister was saying something about it.  I had not done any research.  BUt I am thining, I am going to stagger my girls so that I can have a Doe in Milk pretty much all year.


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## PendergrassRanch (Dec 29, 2012)

SkyWarrior said:
			
		

> PendergrassRanch said:
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Not vegan, or intolerant.  I just don't care for the taste of milk. I love milk products though . Almond to me is fantastic, and refreshing. I put it in my coffee even.  Animal milk just has a sickening after taste to me, so I just quit buying it.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 29, 2012)

Sounds like I will have to get going on the cheese making. I got the goat in milk and plan to keep a goat in milk all the time but I do love cheese.


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## madcow (Dec 29, 2012)

We believe in being self-sufficient.  The upcoming "milk cliff" just goes to prove that we made a right decision in recently purchasing goats for milk, and with perfect timing it seems.


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## that's*satyrical (Dec 29, 2012)

So glad I have my milk goats  I just hope their feed doesn't skyrocket too....


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Dec 29, 2012)

I live off milk. If I didn't have milk I would die. That simple. I eat so much cheese and drink a TON of milk.

If we go over the milk cliff I think I will die.

ETA: Goats just got that much more valuable.


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## SkyWarrior (Dec 29, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> I live off milk. If I didn't have milk I would die. That simple. I eat so much cheese and drink a TON of milk.
> 
> If we go over the milk cliff I think I will die.
> 
> ETA: Goats just got that much more valuable.


Yes, they did.  I assume your Kikos are good for milk too?


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## madcow (Dec 29, 2012)

I'm not a big milk drinker, but I love just about any kind of cheese.  My favorite saying is "anything that has cream cheese in it has got to be good," and I've never found that not to be true! LOL! You can tell by looking at my chunky, matronly body!  On my youngest granddaughter's 7th birthday I asked her what she wanted for a present and her answer was "cheese!" That's what she got, a gift box of cheese from Figi's!  She loved it and I try to give her some sort of cheese for her birthday every year.  I swear the kid could live off cheese alone.  She's one healthy young lady now at 13 and she's lactose intolerant to boot! Thankfully cow's milk in the form of cheese has very little lactose in it, or the girl would have killed herself long ago just by the amount of cheese she eats! Goat milk is the answer for her.


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## SkyWarrior (Dec 29, 2012)

that's*satyrical said:
			
		

> So glad I have my milk goats  I just hope their feed doesn't skyrocket too....


Yes, indeed.  My DH was at first in shock when I counted 7 does.  I pointed out that they all won't be in milk all the time, we want cheese, and the babies take up some of the milk.  He relaxed after that.

We saw the milk cliff thing on the news and just looked at each other in horror.  Right now our goats are pregnant, but none are in milk.  (Annie dried up early in December).  The cheese I get is normally $12 a block (it's local and organic).   I can't imagine paying $24/block for cheese. 

Paying $8/gallon for milk is way too much.

How does goat's milk do for cheese like cheddar and Monterrey Jack?    Anyone here make hard cheese?


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## meme (Dec 29, 2012)

We were just talking about this last night after we saw it on the news! We should start getting goat milk in the end of March or very beginning of April. I try not to drink or eat much store bought dairy products, but butter is a staple for cooking and cheese for snacking. Hopefully Rachel gives us plenty of delicious milk!


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## SheepGirl (Dec 29, 2012)

I don't know, but it sounds like a good time to get in the dairy business


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Dec 29, 2012)

Good thing is if we doe go over the Milk Cliff it will not last long. They can not keep prices that high but I would not be surprised if it did go that high for a month or two.

And yes, the Kikos are good for milk. If this does indeed happen they we will be using them for milk.


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## alsea1 (Dec 29, 2012)

Aside from trying feed ourselves, the real problem will be in trying to keep animals fed on a tight budget.  Hay is already overpriced due to diesel and other related costs. Grain, well you know thats expensive as well.
I pay 12 bucks for a 40 pound bag of rabbit feed, nine dollars for a 40 pount bag of all stock blend.  Last year I paid 100.00 for the prev. years hay.  Its only worth it because we eat them. If I were trying to sell them it is real hard to get out of them what you put in feed.
Those of us that do not have the luxury of a bit of land are in trouble. We won't be able to keep much in the next ten years at the rate things are going.  
The enemy here in my opinion is the war that America has on inexpensive energy and the war on the small business man.
Todays rising costs are going t def. favor the small farm animal over cows.


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## DonnaBelle (Dec 29, 2012)

Since I got to know and raise my goats I am really amazed that they never caught on in the United States.

Their milk is superior, they are small and easy to handle, will eat brouse and if are properly maintained are quite hardy.

They are very popular in the rest of the world, and may become so here too. 

Our country has become so political now, that the politicians no longer do what is best for the people, but what keeps them in power.

Did you know the farm bill needs to be renewed so agriculture as we know can continue to produce?  

I know there are a lot of things in our country that need to be redone and reorganized, but have you ever been to Europe?  I lived there for a while, trust me, you don't want to do things their way.

The USA may not be perfect, but it's the best thing going for now.  It's the politicians and their unwillingness to get along and work together that is the problem right now.

DonnaBelle


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## SkyWarrior (Dec 29, 2012)

alsea1 said:
			
		

> Aside from trying feed ourselves, the real problem will be in trying to keep animals fed on a tight budget.  Hay is already overpriced due to diesel and other related costs. Grain, well you know thats expensive as well.
> I pay 12 bucks for a 40 pound bag of rabbit feed, nine dollars for a 40 pount bag of all stock blend.  Last year I paid 100.00 for the prev. years hay.  Its only worth it because we eat them. If I were trying to sell them it is real hard to get out of them what you put in feed.
> Those of us that do not have the luxury of a bit of land are in trouble. We won't be able to keep much in the next ten years at the rate things are going.
> The enemy here in my opinion is the war that America has on inexpensive energy and the war on the small business man.
> Todays rising costs are going t def. favor the small farm animal over cows.


I wish our hay were that cheap. I paid $150/ton -- and here in Western Montana that's cheap!  Some folks were selling hay for $200 a ton or more.  Most of our hay went down south to Colorado, where I hear they're making a killing on it.  50 lb bag of sweet feed goes for about $13.49.

Yep, it's stupid expensive.


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## elevan (Dec 29, 2012)

I already pay this price.  I don't buy from the supermarket though.  Local dairy, good, fresh milk.  Store bought tastes like chemicals to me now.  If you're gonna pay those prices you might as well get the good stuff.


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## BrownSheep (Dec 30, 2012)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> I don't know, but it sounds like a good time to get in the dairy business


The dairymen around here are probably looking forward to it. They actually were hurting pretty badly a couple years ago so this will be a nice respite for them...truthfully I don't know how much it will affect me. The valley I live in is the reason Idaho produces more milk than Iowa, Illinois, and Indiana combined. We used to be third in the nation but dropped back to 5 th recently.


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## Suburbanfarmer (Dec 30, 2012)

We actually got goats for the milk because we were spending $9/gal to get local raw milk. And that was the price for the cow share! Their retail price is $11/gal! We had to do a line item in our budget for milk because we were going through 2 gallons a week. Now we more than break even with our 2 ND does. Unfortunately they are both dry right now. We are waiting for kids in February. I can't wait. Our one doe dried up toward the end of November and our other will be a FF in April (I hope, I'm about to pull blood and send it off to find out if she really is prego).
-K


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## terri9630 (Dec 30, 2012)

I wouldn't count on the dairies making a lot of money on this.  They have been subsidized and haven't really felt the effects of the higher feed prices.  In the past year we have had 3 local dairies shut down and the news reported that this year, state wide, over 50 dairies have gone out of business.  After hearing that report in Nov and watching to cows from the local dairies being shipped off we decided to find some goats.  Our first had twins last Sat, now I need to learn to make cheese and figure out how to get the cream for butter.


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## madcow (Dec 30, 2012)

Well, sounds as though there are a lot of really informed people on this forum concerning our economy and our country.  I doubt that the price of milk will go down once it goes up to the higher price.  Never heard of the price of anything going dramatically down once it goes up.  It might fluctuate a small amount but it won't go back to what it is now again.  I'm afraid this is just the beginning of prices increasing on food items and feed for animals.  There are less food animals out there than last year because of the drought and the reduced supply of grains.  Many farms reduced the size of their herds in order to cut costs.  Kind of scary, isn't it?


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Dec 30, 2012)

madcow said:
			
		

> Well, sounds as though there are a lot of really informed people on this forum concerning our economy and our country.  I doubt that the price of milk will go down once it goes up to the higher price.  Never heard of the price of anything going dramatically down once it goes up.  It might fluctuate a small amount but it won't go back to what it is now again.  I'm afraid this is just the beginning of prices increasing on food items and feed for animals.  There are less food animals out there than last year because of the drought and the reduced supply of grains.  Many farms reduced the size of their herds in order to cut costs.  Kind of scary, isn't it?


The price will go down because people will not and can not pay 8-10$ for a gal of milk. I think that it will stay up for a month or two and will drop. Maybe not to where it is now but they can not keep it that high for a long period of time.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 30, 2012)

It of course isn't just about the milk. It takes milk for any kind of cheese and butter. This will effect every restaurant, school lunches, hospitals etc. Instead of the nice family treat of a pizza at $10  that would now be $20. Food is big industry. 

Where a government controls the food... they control the people. With as many people that are having to have food stamps just think how many more people will now be added to the program. People becoming more and more dependent on "government". The sale of raw milk being illegal in most states just adds to the control. Once the price goes up it will not come down. 

Most of the dairies here have long been closed down because what farmer wants to work that hard to break even every year.
This will not be good for the dairy farmers who are left.


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## SkyWarrior (Dec 30, 2012)

All very true, which is why I brought this up. 

I'm not against farmers, but I wonder what we're doing subsidizing the milk industry to the point where if they don't make a new bill the subsidies require the prices to go through the roof.  Sort of a price-fixing thing. It doesn't work well.

I believe in free market capitalism, which means that the market will set the price, not the government.  I think most people are willing to pay for milk, but not at a price percentage that was set in 1949 when milking was labor-intensive. If the price of producing milk was truly that high, we'd see the market level out somewhere in a happy medium.  I suspect many dairies would simply change to more efficient methods, thus making more money.

I don't believe government should control our food supply, which is why we're going more self-sufficient.  Don't get me wrong, I still shop at stores, but I try very hard to make our own food.

Cheese and butter are huge.  That's why we've gone with goats.


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## Alice Acres (Dec 30, 2012)

SkyWarrior said:
			
		

> PendergrassRanch said:
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> ...


I love almond milk!!

I have no issue or dietary reasons, I just prefer the taste. It also has some nutritional benefits that real milk lacks. I buy almond milk for me, but 2% for hubby. I also grow my own kefir (milk), so I use the 2% milk for that as well. Variety is good!


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## alsea1 (Dec 30, 2012)

As far as food and feed goes, we are all going to get to participate in some times I think.  I really really hope I'm wrong. But I do not think so.


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## kstaven (Dec 30, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> It of course isn't just about the milk. It takes milk for any kind of cheese and butter. This will effect every restaurant, school lunches, hospitals etc. Instead of the nice family treat of a pizza at $10  that would now be $20. Food is big industry.
> 
> Where a government controls the food... they control the people. With as many people that are having to have food stamps just think how many more people will now be added to the program. People becoming more and more dependent on "government". The sale of raw milk being illegal in most states just adds to the control. Once the price goes up it will not come down.
> 
> ...


Milk is just a focal right now. Agree it is about far more than milk and the effect is going to be felt across the boards.

We wouldn't be in this mess if the controls went away and a true FREE MARKET reigned.

As to subsidies. You all realize that everyone pays for it in a huge way in their taxes. Last time I looked it up it takes over $7.00 in tax money collected for every dollar that reaches the end source in the form of a subsidy. Reality is we are all better off without them.

Interesting thing about milk substitutes that will likely occur. WHEN the dairy prices go up there will be greater strains on the alternate sources and that will drive the prices of those up also. 

Only hope of ever getting it all under control is to lessen the reliance on imports. God knows if banana republics like ecuador and venezuela can go from 80% reliance on imported food to less than 20% then there is no reason why we cannot.


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## Royd Wood (Dec 30, 2012)

Ah well at least you wont have all those damm Canadians crossing the border to shop for cheap milk and butter. Yes thats right subsidies allow Canadians close enough to shop till they drop oh and fill up the tank on the way home. 
Sorry but I think it is going to be tough for all of us but even worse for you guys South. Is this the time to wish you all a Very Happy New Year


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## kstaven (Dec 30, 2012)

LOL I have dual citizenship and am living in Canada right now.

Those canadians also keep many border towns alive.


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## madcow (Dec 31, 2012)

Wow, many individuals on this site have very strong and informed opinions on this topic, which happens to be our government interfering with free commerce.  I find it refreshing people are awake and see what's going on and are involved.  I'm afraid though it is going to get much worse before it gets any better, but that is what is needed to right things and put us back on the track of freedom.  I for one wish the government would get out of the picture and allow things work the way they should.  Our government is getting too powerful and we are paying the price in the form of higher taxes, higher cost of living, and less freedom.


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## Tiss (Dec 31, 2012)

Goat milk makes good hard cheese. I've made a few excellent goat goudas. I wax them and have them last a year or so in the fridge. 

Sure am glad I have the goaty girls. I don't want to go back to grocery store milk . I was selling out of goat milk at $8/gal. last summer.  I'll be going up to $10 this spring since that's what all my local competitors are at. I was just being too nice and feed is up so much, I need to get over it!

With winter and the girls getting bred, I'm down to about a 1/2 gal a day right now. Just enough for our family. I think I have them staggered so I'll be getting at least a little milk at all times. 

I'm convinced the folks running our government don't want to do anything about the milk cliff, fiscal cliff or anything else. Plays right into their plan to make us more like Europe.


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## madcow (Dec 31, 2012)

I heard today that our government has approved to extend the subsides for milk producers, it just hasn't been signed by the president yet.  Something is seriously wrong with our government and the whole lot needs to be dumped and started over from scratch and at the same time get rid of lobbies.  That would be a really good start, don't you think?


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## SkyWarrior (Dec 31, 2012)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

> Ah well at least you wont have all those damm Canadians crossing the border to shop for cheap milk and butter. Yes thats right subsidies allow Canadians close enough to shop till they drop oh and fill up the tank on the way home.
> Sorry but I think it is going to be tough for all of us but even worse for you guys South. Is this the time to wish you all a Very Happy New Year


You're on the wrong side, Royd! 

A Happy New Year to you too!


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## SkyWarrior (Dec 31, 2012)

kstaven said:
			
		

> LOL I have dual citizenship and am living in Canada right now.
> 
> Those canadians also keep many border towns alive.


Yer on the wrong side  (just kidding!)

I suspect it goes both ways.  I've known plenty of folks who go up to Canada for things and vice versa.

But every time I go for a border crossing (what few I have gone through) I always get singled out.  No idea why. 

Guess us writers/publishers are a shifty bunch.


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## SkyWarrior (Dec 31, 2012)

madcow said:
			
		

> Wow, many individuals on this site have very strong and informed opinions on this topic, which happens to be our government interfering with free commerce.  I find it refreshing people are awake and see what's going on and are involved.  I'm afraid though it is going to get much worse before it gets any better, but that is what is needed to right things and put us back on the track of freedom.  I for one wish the government would get out of the picture and allow things work the way they should.  Our government is getting too powerful and we are paying the price in the form of higher taxes, higher cost of living, and less freedom.


I think (and I could be wrong here) that most goat owners are into self-sufficiency.  Whether that equates to a conservative outlook, I don't know.  I certainly didn't mean for this to become a political thread, and I don't really want to go there.  I am for the free market and I believe that consumers have the right to set the prices by their spending habits, not by the government deciding how much something should be.  Although I do not drink raw milk (I pasteurize mine), and I don't advocate the drinking of raw milk, I feel very strongly that the government has no business telling those who DO want to drink raw milk that they can't buy it from people who want to sell it.  Here in Montana it's illegal to sell raw milk, but I know there's an underground market for it.  (Read about it in the paper)  Occasionally I've seen clueless people trying to sell raw milk on Craigslist.  I suspect the Ag department out here shut them down.

It's a sorry state of affairs when people who produce good milk are treated like criminals.  I suspect that if we see the "milk cliff" that there will be more underground sales.


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## Tiss (Dec 31, 2012)

Underground milk sales.

Don't you just love the government turning good, honest, hardworking people into criminals? Heaven forbid we drink or sell raw milk, but want to smoke a little maryjane? That's cool in 1/3 of the country. 

I just can't wrap my brain around it.


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## SkyWarrior (Dec 31, 2012)

Tiss said:
			
		

> Underground milk sales.
> 
> Don't you just love the government turning good, honest, hardworking people into criminals? Heaven forbid we drink or sell raw milk, but want to smoke a little maryjane? That's cool in 1/3 of the country.
> 
> I just can't wrap my brain around it.




Yep.  Doesn't make much sense, does it?


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Dec 31, 2012)

SkyWarrior said:
			
		

> All very true, which is why I brought this up.
> 
> I'm not against farmers, but I wonder what we're doing subsidizing the milk industry to the point where if they don't make a new bill the subsidies require the prices to go through the roof.  Sort of a price-fixing thing. It doesn't work well.
> 
> ...





*Just my personal opinion but I don't think the gov't should be subsidizing ANYTHING. Let the free market determine the price. *


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## Symphony (Dec 31, 2012)

I believe the signed an extension to help the Dairy industry.


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## alsea1 (Dec 31, 2012)

In the old days those subsidies also fed the poor. 
The farmers produced more than they sold and the gov. purchased it and had it put into cans or what not.  There was cheese, rice, flour, beans, salt, canned chicken, canned meat. Split peas, peanut butter, sugar. All the basics were covered.
People did not get food stamps. They got food. Real food. Real butter. The milk was dried, but it was milk all the same.
It was called commodities.  
A person had to cook and prepare the food rather than pop it in microwave or hit Figaro's pizza.

But some of the poor folks complained. They felt like second class citizens.  So the food coupon was created.  Then they complained because people could tell they were food stamp folk. So the food stamp debit card was created.

So now that surplus food prolly gets shipped to other countries and we dig deeper into pocket so the poor on debit cards can buy whatever they feel so inclined. Like steak, potato chips, cookies, bottled water, slim jim meat sticks, dough nuts, soda pop. You name it.


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## SkyWarrior (Jan 1, 2013)

Symphony said:
			
		

> I believe the signed an extension to help the Dairy industry.


It's only 8 months.  And quite frankly, I believe that subsidies should be dumped.

The farm subsidies were introduced not for the poor, but during the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression when the government was encouraging people to let fields lie fallow, and also to fix prices to keep a certain amount of money going to farms.  Not everyone had enough land to allow the land to recover a season, and in order to not have a surplus, the government paid people to not produce food to keep the prices higher, and subsidize those already producing so the prices could stay inflated enough.  Long of it short, handouts have grown far beyond what was originally intended.

Sigh.

Milk will probably increase, along with meat and cheese.  When I'm paying $12.50 for a block of cheese that cost $8 a year before, I think I need to get more goats.


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## alsea1 (Jan 1, 2013)

Well. Regardless of the what and the why of it.
Some of us are going to lose some weight. LOL
higher costs will of course mean we will be able to purchase less food and everything else.


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## SkyWarrior (Jan 1, 2013)

alsea1 said:
			
		

> Well. Regardless of the what and the why of it.
> Some of us are going to lose some weight. LOL
> higher costs will of course mean we will be able to purchase less food and everything else.


True.  Good New Year's Resolution, eh?


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## alsea1 (Jan 1, 2013)

Well, I guess our predecessors made it thru depressions/recessions. Guess we will as well.


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## Tiss (Jan 1, 2013)

SkyWarrior said:
			
		

> Symphony said:
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I'm with you there. And can we please stop with the ethanol already. $17.49 for a sack of goat feed? $11.49 for the laying hens (and that's buying in bulk)? $13.00 for the Cornish X? All that and it hasn't reduced the cost to fill my tank a lick.

Edited to correct spelling....needed more coffee


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 1, 2013)

> please stop with the enthanol already


A HUGE x2


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## alsea1 (Jan 1, 2013)

I agree. This ethanol is not doing anyone or anything any good. It does ruin your motor a bit quicker. So the car industry will be able to sell ya a car sooner than normal.


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## SheepGirl (Jan 1, 2013)

Before the ethanol mandate, a bushel of corn was $2-$3. Now it's 3-4x that much.


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## alsea1 (Jan 1, 2013)

It just seems that common sense is going out the window.
Seems there is some faction out there that wants to stop everything that a person may try to make a living.
Seems there are groups out there that want to ban everything. Good forbid let people make the choice of what they want to eat or drink.
Seems to me that if an adult wants to buy raw milk from someone they should be able to. Of course they also need to accept the risk that there is a possibility that they may get sick. But darn it a person should have that choice without the gov. butting in. 
And all that crap about usda ratings. Heck. seems to me more e coli breaks out from this gov. inspected food.  
Small farms are not employing cheap labor to rip apart thousands of animals per day thus sloppy work.
I will take home slaughter any day.


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## SkyWarrior (Jan 1, 2013)

alsea1 said:
			
		

> It just seems that common sense is going out the window.
> Seems there is some faction out there that wants to stop everything that a person may try to make a living.
> Seems there are groups out there that want to ban everything. Good forbid let people make the choice of what they want to eat or drink.
> Seems to me that if an adult wants to buy raw milk from someone they should be able to. Of course they also need to accept the risk that there is a possibility that they may get sick. But darn it a person should have that choice without the gov. butting in.
> ...


Yep, I hear you. A lot of the problems have to do with centralized processing (a pet peeve of mine, BTW).  You have one place that handles all that meat and if the handling is wrong and food gets contaminated, you've got a huge outbreak.  Hence I buy local and try to raise my own food.


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## Tiss (Jan 1, 2013)

Couldn't agree more. I spent the last 2 days processsing deer and do about 30 chickens a month that I sell to friends and neighbors. I just read in the paper that the USDA is changing regulations on chicken butching that will remove inspectors from the line and allow for about a 8x increase in speed. They say they are relying on scientific testing to catch problems. I'm so glad I can raise my own!

Edited for spelling again...this time I blame aching hands from slicing all that meat from bones.


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