# Minis



## Wehner Homestead (Dec 18, 2017)

As some of you know, we have Nigees and love them! We got dairy goats to provide milk for our medically fragile daughter. Our goal is to replace all of her dairy intake with caprine. 

BYH has introduced me to Minis as I had never heard of them prior. We are strongly considering either getting a Standard doe or two and raising our own or buying 2 minis. We have more than one Nigee buck so side options isn't a problem. 

We love the size and nature of our Nigees. I'm hoping to get input on the Stanard breeds from those that have experience with them. I also would love any information that those with experience with Minis can offer. Does anyone recommend a specific way of approaching this expansion?


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## Southern by choice (Dec 18, 2017)

There are many options.
It really depends on how you want to develop your breeding program.

MANY focus on ears first when working with mini lamanchas, ears & nose for mini nubian
It seems far too many focus on the "breed character" first rather than what makes it a dairy goat.

Ears IMO are the last thing I consider. I want a good udder with productivity first.
Ears can be worked on later, they don't make milk.

There are alot of people breeding mini's. They are very quickly increasing in popularity. They are the best homestead goat out there imo... if it is a good goat.

Notice my add on..."if"
Many people end up with minis not even knowing they are there own breed, have two registries etc. They have show, virtual shows, DHI (milktest with awards), and an appraisal process is being developed.
They have a standard and don't have a standard buck but they need the doe bred so they breed to the Nigie they have on hand.
That in itself isn't a bad thing at all. BUT there are people that will breed any ole buck to anything and that is where it gets sloppy.

I sold two F-2 does this year - both had erect ears.... I bred thee does to my buck... 
the probability for ears given their ear genetics will be- 50% erect 50%elf, no possibility of gopher.
I am awaiting the kids as I plan to buy a doe from that breeding. 
(my thread on breeding minis- https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/mini-manchas-breeding.36927/ )
breeding for-
First gen is easy.
2nd gen is harder
3rd gen is critical, and you really want to select the right bucks and cross the right genetics.

For me I don't mind the slow process or the work. Many buy upper gens that already meet breed standard and are American or Purebred status... there are few that have excellent quality but the biggest issue I see is that usually those incredible goats go to a herd where the person wanted to buy the "breed" but didn't work to get there... those end up destroying those great genetics within 2 generations. 

If you want to start with first gens using standards then you need to look at the doe and you want that doe correct, not someone's cull.
second- your buck, best if you know what that buck does, doesn't do.


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## babsbag (Dec 18, 2017)

I have all of the above, but my only nigis are bucks and their job is to make me some minis. I currently have 5 mini Alpine does and 1 mini Alpine buck. I also have about 40 standard sized goats, both Alpines and LaManchas. The minis are definitely easier to handle since they are smaller. I can't really give you a fair account of their milking as I only milk one this year and it is her first year, I will be milking all of them next year. 

As far as how to get some minis, really any way will work, buy or breed, but the quickest would be to buy them.


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 19, 2017)

I want to be sure that I get them from someone that at least knew something of what they were doing when they did their breeding. As in, a well-bred producing standard to a Nigee from a milking line that should pass on good udder/production traits. 

I may get more into the Minis in the future but right now, my plan would be to breed them back to one of my bucks and continue to keep doelings. I may potentially purchase a Mini buck if I can find one that meets my criteria but it almost seems counter-productive to buy one buck for two does when I have two bucks already for four Does here plus reservations on five doelings and planning on keeping any born. I'm also keeping a buckling (if she has one) out of one of my does that I bought bred. I think I may have a buck problem..

I'm more overwhelmed about trying to pick a Standard breed that I want Minis from. I'm not thrilled about how full size goats around here again. The Nigees have spoiled me compared to my Boers! 

One of my concerns is that I've learned what to look for to some degree in Nigees and then having to consider Standards and Minis while trying to pick up on genetics and herd names, etc is very overwhelming. 

I don't know about this ear stuff with LM  but I wish I could just get some from SBC because I know she does her homework and is about 6 hrs from me. (I'll specify that I don't know how I feel about owning goats with "no" or only partial ears...)

I also had a bad experience when I bought my first Nigees. I don't want to do that again. I brought home five goats that day in June and may retain one, two at the very most! That's quite the loss, emotionally and financially. We spent a ton of money getting those goats healthy to end up with a csection, dead kid, spayed doe, a wether that was very wormy and had an early demise, and a stunted doe that I don't think will breed. 

Can anyone tell that I'm really nervous about this?!


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 19, 2017)

babsbag said:


> I have all of the above, but my only nigis are bucks and their job is to make me some minis. I currently have 5 mini Alpine does and 1 mini Alpine buck. I also have about 40 standard sized goats, both Alpines and LaManchas. The minis are definitely easier to handle since they are smaller. I can't really give you a fair account of their milking as I only milk one this year and it is her first year, I will be milking all of them next year.
> 
> As far as how to get some minis, really any way will work, buy or breed, but the quickest would be to buy them.




What can you tell me about the Alpines? I'm looking for info as far as personality and other characteristics. How do they compare to your Nigees? 

I have a possible lead on Mini Saanens but I'm awaiting more info before I commit...


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## babsbag (Dec 19, 2017)

I love my Alpines, most of my goats are Alpines. They are hearty and produce very well but some can be bossy, but then again so can some of my LaManchas. I sold three LM this year because they had attitudes that I just couldn't deal with. They screamed and yelled for attention, would lean on my when I milked them, and beat the crap out of any kid that wasn't theirs. I also have some LM that are very mellow, and some Alpines that think that they are dogs. Every goat is different so I hate to label any breed as good or bad. 

Milk wise, the Lamanchas  have higher butterfat than the Alpines and that is why I added them to my herd but the Alpine milk is very good on its own. My only gripe with my LMs is the ears, some get crusty and need cleaning and some don't. I am not sure how to know which you are getting when you buy a kid. I'm just glad that they don't all have high maintenance ears, I don't have time for that. I chose mini Alpines over mini LM as I am not overly fond of elf eared goats, that was the only reason. Butterfat wise the mini LM will probably have a higher content if that is important to you. 

The other thing about minis, if you care, is that I think it is easier to get to the breed standard for Alpines as color doesn't matter for the most part. All white and Togg markings are frowned on but anything else goes. So really no color to worry about and no ear shape to worry about; makes it easy to focus on the udder and everything else just falls into place. I had two mini Toggs this last year, oh were they every adorable. Yes, I have one Togg doe too, but I sold the minis, I only bred them for fun.  

Unfortunately I am in CA so a little far or I could set you up with an Alpine or even a mini Alpine. I am literally one month away from having my dairy done but I will have kids galore in a few months, more than I will ever need.


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 19, 2017)

babsbag said:


> I love my Alpines, most of my goats are Alpines. They are hearty and produce very well but some can be bossy, but then again so can some of my LaManchas. I sold three LM this year because they had attitudes that I just couldn't deal with. They screamed and yelled for attention, would lean on my when I milked them, and beat the crap out of any kid that wasn't theirs. I also have some LM that are very mellow, and some Alpines that think that they are dogs. Every goat is different so I hate to label any breed as good or bad.
> 
> Milk wise, the Lamanchas  have higher butterfat than the Alpines and that is why I added them to my herd but the Alpine milk is very good on its own. My only gripe with my LMs is the ears, some get crusty and need cleaning and some don't. I am not sure how to know which you are getting when you buy a kid. I'm just glad that they don't all have high maintenance ears, I don't have time for that. I chose mini Alpines over mini LM as I am not overly fond of elf eared goats, that was the only reason. Butterfat wise the mini LM will probably have a higher content if that is important to you.
> 
> ...




I may just have to look into having two Mini Alpines flown in from you! I won't be ready this spring because of funds...I will definitely keep my options open and know that I can get some from you if nothing else. I just might reserve some for Spring 2020 kidding after a little more research!


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 19, 2017)

I actually googled pics of the different crosses just out of curiosity. The ears on the Nubians I found were a funny cross between erect and the droopy ears. I really liked the look of the Mini Alpines.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 19, 2017)

That is only in the experimental stage.
This is my 6th gen Purebred Mini Nubian he is 1 year old here



 

It also depends on the strength of the genetics.

My f-1 experimental mini nubians have very good breed character... they are first generation... they have very good noses and ears for being half Nigerian


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 19, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> That is only in the experimental stage.
> This is my 6th gen Purebred Mini Nubian he is 1 year old here
> View attachment 41282
> 
> ...




Those Mini Nubians are all adorable!! I've obviously got lots to learn! I have a friend that had Nubians growing up and I've been asking lots of questions.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 19, 2017)

LOL I am selling my mini nubians.
I enjoy them but my focus isn't on Nubians.

But  I wanted to say, the 75 dwarf/ 25 standard breed of your choice is not easy to place. They go to pet homes for the most part. It is different the other way around but almost valueless to do 3/4 Nigie. It also usually means people are just using what they have and generally are not focused on breed development or even care about it... more like- ah, anything as long as the doe gets bred. That is why there are so many mediocre-   goats out there.
There are exceptions. 75/25 that have powerful Nubian breed character can e beneficial as far as bucks go, not so much does.
Unless the does are pretty growthy- then they can be bred to a 50/50 or lower %.  
One of the does I sold ended up being bred to a Nigie because of not being able to find a good MN buck. I just saw the 7 month old kids and was really impressed. They look nothing like the majority of 75dwarf/25 Nubian's look. They clearly are MN and have the developing characteristics... but then again the line is out of my Ruby (Nubian) she has incredible genetics that overpower the Nigie side. What I find interesting is that it passed down a second gen to 75/25's. If a person has a 75% standard / 25% Nigerian and they want to get that % down, then breeding with a 75dwarf/25Std buck that is quality can be beneficial.

I think the human personality has much to do with the breeds people get.
We like goats that love us, that hug us, kiss us, always want to be with us. I like goats in my lap, that wrap their neck around me.I like goats that come when called, answer to their name. 
I love the Lamancha... can you tell. 
Our friend (we met her through her visiting our farm that our vet had referred) came to see Nigerians. We had nothing at the time but kept in touch and we hit it off... she came for a kidding and assisted.... long story short she visited every week -2 weeks.... in that time she changed her mind to MINI MANCHAS! She fell in love with them, they were f-2 so the two does had ears, then she wanted to add lamanchas.... in the end she got 2 nigies as well but truly the ML and the Lamancha just stole her heart. Now she shows with us too. Such a good friend and goat owner too.  Here is what's funny. She had Alpines years ago, turned her off completely from goats. 

I really think it is personality meshing with a type of goat. I have always hated long pendulous ears and never wanted a Nubian. We ended up with Ruby. Ruby is our heart, not like most Nubians- she never makes a sound. Seriously! I got over the long floppy ears because she stole my heart. The second she sees us she has to come get her kisses and hugs. Not treats, our goats come for love.


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## babsbag (Dec 20, 2017)

And unlike Southern I don't like a goat that is in my face. Being easily caught and handled is one thing but I don't need them to follow me and help me with chores. When I am out working on a project I hate getting pestered by a goat and unlike my dogs they don't know "NO". I find that some of my bottle raised kids are just obnoxious. IMO


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 20, 2017)

babsbag said:


> And unlike Southern I don't like a goat that is in my face. Being easily caught and handled is one thing but I don't need them to follow me and help me with chores. When I am out working on a project I hate getting pestered by a goat and unlike my dogs they don't know "NO". I find that some of my bottle raised kids are just obnoxious. IMO


HOW COULD YOU?! 

I love in-your-face goats LOL

Gates Babs, gates. Lock em' away when you are working


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 20, 2017)

I like my goats like my dogs! Velcro!


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 20, 2017)

This is Trouble. She is my favorite mini ever and is a true homestead type goat.

She will give 8# of milk a day, while maintaining wonderful condition. She is hardy- she has had triplets two years in a row and is never dragged down.
 She can thrive on grass hay (and feed on the milkstand). Easy to handle and is the perfect size for a mini IMO. If I decide to milk her 3 times a day her production will greatly increase. I really appreciate her will to milk, she will produce whatever I ask.

Trouble is pictured next to Mariah. (Please excuse Mariah's condition in these pics, she had gotten deathly ill from a bad batch of Chaffhaye. She is lucky to survive, sadly we lost two bucks to the chaffhaye. It took Mariah a long time to bounce back, and I'm afraid she has permanent gut damage from the infection.) Mariah is a standard lamancha, when in proper weight she's about 140#. I think Trouble was about 105# here, but you can see she is wide and short.
Just how I like them!


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 20, 2017)

Goat Whisperer said:


> This is Trouble. She is my favorite mini ever and is a true homestead type goat.
> 
> She will give 8# of milk a day, while maintaining wonderful condition. She is hardy- she has had triplets two years in a row and is never dragged down.
> She can thrive on grass hay (and feed on the milkstand). Easy to handle and is the perfect size for a mini IMO. If I decide to milk her 3 times a day her production will greatly increase. I really appreciate her will to milk, she will produce whatever I ask.
> ...



GW: Thank you for sharing Trouble! I'm very excited to see her. The Mini Manchas are growing on me and I really need an excuse to come meet y'all! I'm actually talking to DH about a deal (of sorts lol) Southern alluded to today...I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 20, 2017)

Goat Whisperer said:


> This is Trouble. She is my favorite mini ever and is a true homestead type goat.
> 
> She will give 8# of milk a day, while maintaining wonderful condition. She is hardy- she has had triplets two years in a row and is never dragged down.
> She can thrive on grass hay (and feed on the milkstand). Easy to handle and is the perfect size for a mini IMO. If I decide to milk her 3 times a day her production will greatly increase. I really appreciate her will to milk, she will produce whatever I ask.
> ...



GW: Thank you for sharing Trouble! I'm very excited to see her. The Mini Manchas are growing on me and I really need an excuse to come meet y'all! I'm actually talking to DH about a deal (of sorts lol) Southern alluded to today...I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!


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## Southern by choice (Dec 20, 2017)

@Wehner Homestead  these are two of Trouble's triplets from last year ( top and bottom... obviously not the long eared doe)
I would have kept both does had I realized that I could breed up from grade to experimental... I had bad info. 
I will repeat this breeding if I breed Trouble.  I sold all my mini bucks except 2... they were all related.


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 20, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> @Wehner Homestead  these are two of Trouble's triplets from last year ( top and bottom... obviously not the long eared doe)
> I would have kept both does had I realized that I could breed up from grade to experimental... I had bad info.
> I will repeat this breeding if I breed Trouble.  I sold all my mini bucks except 2... they were all related.
> View attachment 41340



So...just to make sure I understand...these two are a year older than Ramona and her eared sister? Also, I'm interpreting it that you won't have an unrelated Mini Mancha buck to sell too, therefore if we go this route, I'll need to find a buck from another source?


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## Southern by choice (Dec 20, 2017)

Wehner Homestead said:


> So...just to make sure I understand...these two are a year older than Ramona and her eared sister? Also, I'm interpreting it that you won't have an unrelated Mini Mancha buck to sell too, therefore if we go this route, I'll need to find a buck from another source?



We are breeding another line, so depending on what the does have we may have bucks available. 
Ramona is the eared mini, the Black elf eared is her sister and I think we are calling her Music maybe Beezus...


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 20, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> We are breeding another line, so depending on what the does have we may have bucks available.
> Ramona is the eared mini, the Black elf eared is her sister and I think we are calling her Music maybe Beezus...




Okay. I think I transposed them. I'll talk to DH and get back to you.


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