# Kids are here and its time for shots.



## heatherlynnky (Feb 1, 2013)

Ok so my doe FINALLY had her kids. Only had 2 but they are good sized boys. Ended up being black with white spots which is totally not what mom is but anywho. They were about frozen when I found them. 2 hours before I had checked her and thought we had time. Her udders were bigger but not like the pictures and not shiny or bulging. No white cord. She was eating and fighting. 2 hours later there was 2 half frozen babies on the ground. We got them warmed up inside and got them some syrup in them like the vet had recommended when we called. He said they were probably hypoglycemic do to the cold? I have no idea but it perked them up. When they were finally warm about 2 hours later they had maybe a half ounce of colostrum each. I was told to wait 2 hours and give them no more than 2 ounces each. Then to wait 4 hours before i fed them again.  I was told though 2 ounces every 4 hours but no more than 6 ounces in a day for the first 3 days? Ok so there are my first issues. 

I have dipped the cords and they are fed and warm. What now? How often to fed. I cannot for my life remember the shots i gave to the babies before.  Pretty sure I need the antitoxin right? When do I need that?

Ok now on to mom. She was not raised by me. I bought her pregnant and she was supposed to be laid back and people friendly. I don't think she was ever around people. I have tried for 3 months now to get her used to be touching and we made progress right up till she had the babies. she would not take care of them but she won't let me milk her either. Tomorrow my husband will help. She already kicked my butt tonight. i gotta soak off the soreness. She got mean. I don't know if we will be able to milk her which is upsetting but if we cannot. What do we do? We get her a shot to dry her up?


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## alsea1 (Feb 1, 2013)

When I have a goat that is sassy like that and I need to milk them I quietly tie them to the stantion and then tie each leg to the posts. That way they have no choice but to stay put. I give feed to keep em busy. I think I used nylon chin straps from my bridles to make little leg cuffs.  After a couple times my goat decided it was easier to settle down and eat her feed and let me milk her. 
Is this her first time being a mom?  If not I don't know if I would keep her as a breeder.
Its so much easier if they raise the kids.
There are lots of milk replacers out there to buy. Some of the people on here have recipes for milk replacer.


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 1, 2013)

This is her first time and she birthed super easy. Only problem was she cleaned them and then wanted to leave. If it was warmer I would have kept them out there and got them drinking and all might have gone better but it was FREEZING even in the barn and even with warm lights they could not warm up. So now we are stuck with this.  My husband had the stand started but not finished because honestly the babies were going to be on her till 12 weeks. I was not worried. I so should have been worried. He is going to set it up tomorrow real quick and we will try the binding her legs cause I already got kicked. Its not fun.

I just don't know what exactly to do. I know not to overfeed and I am terrified of bottle feeding this age. I lost my first goat and am terrified I will lose another now.

I have not fed any milk replacer yet. Only colostrom. How long do I feed that? First 24? first 48? Also I will feed cows milk or if I can find it tomorrow fresh goats milk. I have been told many times that goat milk replacer is a killer.  If mom works with us tomorrow they will get moms milk but I have raised one on cows milk already and it went very well. It just wasn't this small when it went off mom. I am just in a panic and cannot think. All i can think of is poor Minka ( rescue who never got colostrom but I tried to save her anyway)


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Feb 1, 2013)

*Have you read this?

http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=586-baby-goat-info

Good info here. *


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## alsea1 (Feb 1, 2013)

Try to relax. You will do what you can. 
Your vet will help you with the questions. I'm sure that folks will chime in soon with tried and true advice for you.
They look fragile but they are pretty strong really.
They made the first hump.


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 1, 2013)

Thank you Thank you This was what I have been searching for. Rolls had sent me a link last year when I was trying to save Minka and I could not find it. I had just Pm'd asking for advice too. 

So I have a mini problem. What my husband bought as replacer is just supplement. How bad is that going to be. I will find replacer tomorrow or I will make that dang goat give up hers.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Feb 1, 2013)

heatherlynnky said:
			
		

> Thank you Thank you This was what I have been searching for. Rolls had sent me a link last year when I was trying to save Minka and I could not find it. I had just Pm'd asking for advice too.
> 
> So I have a mini problem. What my husband bought as replacer is just supplement. How bad is that going to be. I will find replacer tomorrow or I will make that dang goat give up hers.


*I'd try to get it out of her. I heard the first 24-48 hours are crucial for colostrum, and the mothers is definitely the best. Just me, but I'd tie her up and hobble her and strap her down and do everything I could to get it from her.*


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 1, 2013)

We got 2 ounces of colostrom out of her. I hope that counts for something. I am going out again first thing in the morning and we will go at it again. It took longer tonight because i could not get the plug to come out. Those babies would have starved I tell you. So I went ahead and gave each of them an ounce. I hope with the supplement and the real thing going in them that they will get what they need.


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## Lamancha Acres 123 (Feb 1, 2013)

I would reccmend not to use powdered milk, becasue in most cases it will kill them. Gradually bring them into whole cows milk and they will do just fine. But make sure its whole because they need the nutrients.


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 1, 2013)

Thats what I used last time. My first time I used powdered and the poor little gal died. She also never got any colostrum and was left to die for 24 hours by the person I got her from. Horrid. These I will do the colostrum and the powdered colostrum supplement for the first 24 hours. Then I guess its on to whatever I milk out of mom if I can get enough or whole cows milk. I am fretting that what I milked of moms colostrum was not enough. An ounce each is not much. I am going out at daylight to milk her again. it takes 2 of us. She  is a bit rough so I need my husbands muscles for this. I am shooting for double the amount in the morning. That would make me happier.


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## babsbag (Feb 1, 2013)

If you can catch mom and tie her up the babies might be able to nurse. I wouldn't give up on that yet. I would at least try. They need the colostrum for at least 24 hours. Glad you got some out of her. I didn't freeze any last year and I am just hoping that my first few kiddings this year are successful so I can have some on standby.

I have one goat that usually has twins, and she loves one and hates the other. I would have to go out and catch her and hold her while the kid nursed. As the kid got older and I had other goats in milk they learned that they could sneak snacks from other does while the does had their head in the feeder. It was pretty funny to watch.

It may be harder since she hasn't taken either kid but since she cleaned them up it might work. I know peopl have done it successfully.

Good luck


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## rinksgi (Feb 2, 2013)

Sounds like you are doing what you can. What i don't understand is if the milk replacer is so bad, how can they keep selling it? I bought a bucket when I got my bottle baby and mixed it 1/2 and 1/2 with cow's milk. My baby,who had been doing fine got the runs. I cut it down to 1/4 to 3/4 cow's milk (because I had it and needed to use it) and he got back to normal. If I have to bottle feed another one I hope to have some goat milk in reserve to mix with cow's milk.


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 2, 2013)

i got 3 ounces of moms milk in each of the babies this morning. Its still a thick yellow so thinking she is still producing colostrum.  So far so good. The babies are still pretty active and frisky now. They are not on the 8 hour feeding schedule yet because of the colostrum issue but we are up to every 6 and 3 ounces. After the 24 hours I will have them on every 8 hour schedule and hopefully drinking moms milk. Thats the goal anyway.

btw how long does the black tarry poop last? Wow they poop alot. I had forgotten that.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 2, 2013)

Glad you got some colostrum.  The black poos will transition to yellows over the next 5 days.  I don't know what is up with the milk replacers but we sure won't use them again.


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 2, 2013)

I figured I would post some pictures to share while I was at it. The babies are napping a bit finally. They play more than sleep it feels like. These boys came from a creamy nigerian mommy and a moon spotted dad. The boy with the least white with the dark head has blue eyes too. So stinking cute. My husband is going to try to wrestle mom into the basement for a feeding. We shall see how that goes.


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## julierx1 (Feb 2, 2013)

They are super cute and really think ur doing a great job!  I have been up against this also and things get a little confusing. When I had to bottle feed, I had  no luck w/ the milking mom so I gave them store bought Kid colostrum for the first 3 days then started diluting it with cows milk. I have done this with several this yr and all has gone well.  I also made litle sweaters for mine to help keep them warm. We just cut a couple holes in socks for their front legs and  ready to go!!!


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## alsea1 (Feb 2, 2013)

Its a good thing these animals are so darn cute isn't it. 
When you go thru stuff like this it really helps you appreciate when you get an animal that has good mothering instincts.
My old goat was a good mom. A bit protective though. I almost got head butted when she decided I was interferring. LOL
She did not think I needed to be in there dipping those babies cords. I hurried up and got out of her hair.  Luckily she would mellow out on this on day three or so.
Sounds like your babies are doing good though.


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## rinksgi (Feb 2, 2013)

That is good news!


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 2, 2013)

They got 3 more ounces of colostrum so I am praying that 8 ounces each of moms colostrum will be protection enough. Right now its milk mom and then feed. I have no back up supply going yet. Makes it a bit more difficult.  Right now they are running around the living room and butting each other. Had no clue babies less than 24 hours old would be rough housing already. I really hope these are all good signs and all will be well. The little runt is the most aggressive feeder. The bigger one is much more laid back about it and actually eats a tiny bit less than the runt. I thought that was unusual. the runt though is the most active, the instigator of all head butting. I don't think he knows he is a runt.

My son is all kinds of upset that both of these are boys. I cannot keep any males. I simply do not have enough room to separate.  I think as pretty as these are though they will find a home. For now I am enjoying their antics. Not enjoying the lack of sleep but the antics make up for it.


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 2, 2013)

Ok I am flipping out just a tiny bit. One of the babies has the runs. Its an orangy brown and gooy. They have only gotten moms milk and colostrum supplement. What would you do? I thought with moms milk I would be ok. Its not like liquid but its sticking to her rump and i am needing to clean after each poo. Still active and actually appetite is pretty good. He does have a little sneeze thing going now and then. Not sure if that is a cause for concern right now.


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## SheepGirl (Feb 2, 2013)

How old are they? If they are a couple days old, that's normal.


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## ragdollcatlady (Feb 2, 2013)

They could just be transitioning from black tarry first poop to yellow milk poop, as the colostrum dilutes with  milk.....


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 2, 2013)

Oh, ok I might be a bit over nervous. Please forgive me guys. I have not stopped crying over Minka from last year. It was a hard lost battle and these are my first small babies since. I stuck with older kids, so I am just a bit nervous. They are 27 hours old now. As long as its normal. I now have enough milk for this feeding and the one in the middle of the night. Gotta milk mom early for the morning feed though. Hopefully she produces enough soon that I can save back a bit for the next feeding.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Feb 2, 2013)

You need to get yourself a calm down pill.  You are doing good.  Sounds like they are doing good.  Breath ........ In, Out, In, Out, In, Out.....


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## alsea1 (Feb 2, 2013)

If they are that active they must be doing good. I can understand how nervous you must be after the Minka thing.


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 2, 2013)

I cannot believe how young they are and how much they move around. They spent a fair amount of time playing today. They cat nap between playing but mostly they play. They do this odd little thing where they hop across the room rather than run. They are play butting each other and us.  Very greedy about the bottle. They are not happy with only 3 ounces at a time but thats whats coming out of mom so thats what we have to work with right now.  Her production tonight almost doubled so I think thats a good sign. If I get what I hope to from her in the early AM they will get maybe 3.5 ounces at a time. I figure if I work up the amount slowly I am less likely to have issues with over feeding. I am really hoping to be able to keep them on moms milk even if it is through a bottle. 

The upside is forcing her to let us milk she has calmed down SO much. Like she comes right to us. My husband still has to hold her but its not a fight. She wants him to hold her while we milk.  She comes for pets and treats. She is right there with my bottle baby girls now in friendliness.  Part of that might be the relief that comes from us milking too.  She has to be milked 3 times a day right now to get enough for the kids. I hope I can go down to 2 times a day soon. My shoulders are killing me.  Its worth it for these babies. i don't care if they are boys. They are both beautiful and sweet.


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## Missy (Feb 3, 2013)

Sorry if I missed it, What kind of goat is the momma? Just out of curiosity...


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 3, 2013)

Both mom and dad are dwarf nigerians.  I wish mom was producing more milk than she is. She is just keeping up with the babies so we are having to go out for milkings before each feeding. Its a lot of work and very little sleep right now. I just got in from milking and we only got 6 ounces. Anything I can do to get more milk from her? I want to make sure she provides enough for us to feed these babies.


Um so the poo is gooy like caramel. Seriously thats normal?

40 hours old pictures. They were playing in the living room with the kids.


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## DonnaBelle (Feb 3, 2013)

OMG that last picture is seriously cute!!!

I didn't know goats could be that itty bitty.

Cute kids!!!!

DonnaBelle

P.S. the color of the poop is normal.


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 3, 2013)

Ok big question. Seriously this goat poop  is the color and consistancy of caramel. Even right after they poo its very hard to get off them. I ended up soaping them up and cleaning them down super well and then putting vasaline on their rumps and down the hair in the back to help prevent some of the problem.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 3, 2013)

Oh they are so cute, and being active and playful is a super good sign of health!!!!  That last photo is just way too adorable 

I don't have goats...I have sheep and have never had to pull one and bring it in the house...but I have noticed that with that funny poop when they are very young, I've never had to do anything about it because their mama's lick and clean it up.  Sounds kinda gross...but that's what they do and I don't have to take care of it at all.  If there were with the mama she would probably be doing that herself...since you are the mama, at least you can clean it well and don't have to lick it 

Of course kids may be different from lambs, so goat people can help you better than I can on this issue.


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 3, 2013)

The kids are doing fine. Still very active. No runs or anything. A bit caramel like still. btw vasoline is wonderful and made life so much easier. Anywho we are at every 6 hours they get 3 ounces. They act like they are starving to death.  I am hoping to work up to every 8 hours but not there yet. I was considering slowly upping them to 3.5 ounces tomorrow per feeding. Bad news is we are now on cows milk. Mom is not producing enough and it looks like we are calling the vet. She passed the placenta but now she has something else coming out that looks similar. Not sure what is going on but she is barely producing any milk today and these babies are hungry. I am going to try some things suggested by a couple more experienced goat people and see if it help. We are also calling the vet in the morning.  It was suggested that she might need to go back into labor and pass whatever this stuff that is coming out. 

We discovered my babies are escape artists. They are currently sleeping in a big laundry basket and they play  on the tile during the day inside the house. Well they do not like being put to bed and have figured out how to help each other over the side. So they take turns escaping. Not even 3 days old and already taking after their mom and her need to escape the goat pen. Nice!


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 5, 2013)

How often should they be going poo?  At first that seemed like all they did. Now its slowed down. They did not poo all night and only a couple times during the day. They pee like there is no tomorrow. Normal?

We are up to 3.5 ounces every 6 to 7 hours. I am working my way toward feeding every 8. I figure I should have them to 4 ounces maybe tonight.  They are growing and the runt is filling out nicely. They act hungry all the time though. Forever sucking on my fingers. With all this eating you would think there might be more poo happening. They are not clogged up on the outside at all and they go easily when they do go. So should i worry? Mineral oil up the bum?

They act fine. Still running and jumping and play fighting. They are pretty quiet unless they lose one another. if one wonders off the other goes nuts with crying. So far this is nothing like my first little baby. They are totally different and so active. Just amazing how active they are.


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 9, 2013)

Ok so the boys are a week old yesterday. Today we are off to get the cdt shot stuff. Mule(the runt) is 4.2 lbs and Jack is 5lbs now. That seems really small to me but anywho. They are eating 5 ounces a feeding 3 times a day now. They want more though. I have been slowly increasing the amount. So by the end of their second week they will be eating 6 ounces per feeding. They get about half of what they need from mom still. She has a tiny little udder and has not produced much milk. I have her eating oats and molassas in the morning and then her premium feed and alfalfa pellets and hay. Not sure what else I can do for that milk production. I guess its better that they at least get part of their milk from her. The rest is whole milk.

Now I have a question. The boys are not outside at all right now but when its warmer they will be. Do I worry about cocci prevention? I hate the thought of treating them without there being anything wrong but I know cocci can cause serious issues.


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## SassyKat6181 (Feb 9, 2013)

Not sure where you are located and the availability of grain, but you should get a medicated grain to start them on. I think you still need to treat them for cocci at about a month but the feed should help after that.  Also, you should probably be feeding your doe more grain. It takes a lot out of her body to produce milk.


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## rebelINny (Feb 9, 2013)

A big milk booster for mom is celery and or raspberry leaf........you can buy raspberry leaf at a health food store. Sometimes the only way to get it is in a tea bag, but it works!!!


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## goodolboy (Feb 9, 2013)

Raspberry leaf? Blackberries grow wild here everywhere. Will they work? Is that something you could collect in the summer, and feed at lambing? Our sheep think that kind of stuff is candy. They really like the wild roses too. That the same thing?


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## heatherlynnky (Feb 9, 2013)

SassyKat6181 said:
			
		

> Not sure where you are located and the availability of grain, but you should get a medicated grain to start them on. I think you still need to treat them for cocci at about a month but the feed should help after that.  Also, you should probably be feeding your doe more grain. It takes a lot out of her body to produce milk.


She is getting extra feed. Its not helping much. Someone suggested warm water with molassas in it. I tried that too.  We keep her separate during eating time so we can measure how much she is taking in just to ensure she is getting all the nutrition we hope she is.

Now is cocci a problem really if they are indoors. They will not be going outside at all till its warmer. We have a walk out basement and they will be going down there until it warms up. I do not like medicating if its not needed. So would an non medicated feed be fine till then? I will be honest right now I have had no cocci issues in any of our adults and I do not medicate for cocci. We clean a good bit. We make sure they have LOTS of space and I do give them pine needles to munch on.  I will also keep them in the smaller pen till the grass and bramble dries off in the morning since from what I read the wet grass is part of the issue with cocci. The pen has their play equipment and no browse at all. They can only eat what I feed them in the pen area.


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## rebelINny (Feb 9, 2013)

goodolboy said:
			
		

> Raspberry leaf? Blackberries grow wild here everywhere. Will they work? Is that something you could collect in the summer, and feed at lambing? Our sheep think that kind of stuff is candy. They really like the wild roses too. That the same thing?


No blackberry leaves or wild rose leaves don't have the same medicinal properties that I know of. Raspberry leaf can be dried and saved for later use though and it is great for keeping milk supply in and strong.


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