# Worst day ever: Dog attack Bella stopped eating.



## Holachicka (May 1, 2011)

My neighbors dogs attacked my 4 girls today. I was in the middle of making dinner when I hear a dog barking, I thought it was whatever my DD was watching on tv. Then I noticed my cat staring out the door.

I went running and found two dogs in the goat pen, one had my sweet Bella by the throat and was pulling her to the ground and the other one was going after my shy girl Honey. 

Bella saw me, looked me in the eyes and started screaming. I swear she was saying "help me!" I chased the dogs off and DH came out to help. Honey seemed to be in pretty good shape, but Bella kept trying to get up and falling. I found a gushing puncture wound and held pressure while DH called the vet, gathered the kids and made arrangements for another neightbor to watch them

I rode in the back of the truck to hold pressure, and oh man, was she in pain. It turns out that the dog punctured the skin, his teeth went staight to the bone and he started shaking her. the vet said her muscles were turned to hamburger with bits of bone in them. She'll be at the vets overnight and it's a wait and see type thing.

He also told us that those dogs will be back. We know the owners, and are trying to get into contact with them, but out here in the country, there will be more in the future, U really need some ideas on how to keep my girls safe. We have simple feild fencing and the dogs dug under.

Thanks for letting me vent!


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## elevan (May 1, 2011)

I am sorry  

You could bury the fence or try electric around the fence.

Have a gun and be prepared to shoot...

Keep trying to get a hold of the dog owner...the vet's right the dogs will come back...

I hope your girl makes it through this.


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## terrilhb (May 1, 2011)

I am so sorry this happened to you and your girls. I pray she will be ok. I say SSS.


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## Roll farms (May 1, 2011)

The only thing we've found to keep our girls in / dogs (and other predators) out, are Livestock guardian dogs.

I'm so sorry this happened, I hope she pulls through.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 1, 2011)

That's horrible.   Thank goodness you were home to save her and were able to identify the dogs.  I would contact animal control immediately.  I also have an LGD.  While we do have coyotes in the area domestic dogs were my biggest concern.


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## julieq (May 1, 2011)

I'm so sorry!  We've never owned LGD's, but our GS does a great job of notifying us if any dogs are on the property.  When we lived in Northern Idaho for awhile and had to worry about cougars and wolves, we put two strands of hot wire around the outside perimeter of our goat pen and didn't have any trouble with them.  Even with that, we locked all goats up at night.  Back up to everything we do to protect our little goats are the fact that we're heavily armed.


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## ksalvagno (May 1, 2011)

I'm so sorry. I hope your girl pulls through.


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## phoenixmama (May 1, 2011)

Oh man, how awful.    I hope your doe recovers...and you figure things out about those dogs.


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## chandasue (May 1, 2011)

You could take chicken wire and stake it down on the ground connected to your current fencing (making an L shape with your current fence if that makes sense). Make sure it's staked down well enough to not trip on it or mow over it. That way when they try to dig they hit that chicken wire. It'll at the very least confuse them and slow them down.

I second the gun...


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## 20kidsonhill (May 1, 2011)

electric starting at 4 or 5 inches from the ground and another one a foot above it. Dogs do not like electric.  

I am so sorry, 

if you shot the dogs, it is against the law in many areas, My husband says make sure you follow the three rules "SSS"  shoot, Shovel and shut-up. Check with your area on the laws on this, the fines can get quite big,

The dog owners are responsible for the attacks, have your camera ready, and take photos the next time they come around, they will be back.


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## peachick (May 1, 2011)

Wow  I am sooo sorry.  I cant imagine what I'd do if my goats were attacked by a neighbors dog.  I hope your girl pulls through, and the dogs dont come back before you can secure your animals first.

I had a dog show friend  who had #1 Rottie in the country.  Elvis  got out and was next door barking at the neighbors goat...  who was tied to a tree.  The dog never touched the goat (yet)  but the neighbor shot the dog anyway.


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## Livinwright Farm (May 1, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> Wow  I am sooo sorry.  I cant imagine what I'd do if my goats were attacked by a neighbors dog.  I hope your girl pulls through, and the dogs dont come back before you can secure your animals first.
> 
> I had a dog show friend  who had #1 Rottie in the country.  Elvis  got out and was next door barking at the neighbors goat...  who was tied to a tree.  The dog never touched the goat (yet)  but the neighbor shot the dog anyway.


Man, Rotties have gotten a bad rap... any that I have met are BIG babies in BIG bodies... they will always bark at a distance. I bet anything that if that goat had been loose and started to go towards the Rottie, the Rottie would have tucked tail and wimpered off.  I hope the person who owned the Rottie filed charges against the goat owner. It works both ways, you can't just kill another person's animal without just cause.


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## Livinwright Farm (May 1, 2011)

I too am sorry that this happened, what irresponsible dog owners!  
One of the most simple ways to cure a neighbor of having their dogs "free range" is to contact the police, file a report against the neighbor's dogs, and tell the cops that they should warn the owners that if their dogs are seen on your property again, they will be shot, so it is in their dogs' BEST interest if they keep them fenced or on leash at ALL times.  Worked great for one of my friends who owns chickens. His neighbor's dog has not been loose since!

I would say that if your ground allows, then you should bury the fence *AND* run electrical. We can never be too cautious when it comes to our beloved goats.

I pray that your girls have full recoveries!


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## peachick (May 1, 2011)

thats very true about rottie temperament.  I would sometimes dog sit for her, and feed babies when she was away for shows.  She had like 6 rotties in the house...  kept the front door unlocked and Id just walk in.  As long as I gave the mama dog with the babies  a treat first...  all was fine.


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## rockdoveranch (May 1, 2011)

Oh My Gosh!  I started tearing up when I read the OP!  I am SO sorry for what you and your babies went through.  Horrible HORRIBLE experience!

LGDs are the way to go, but we do not have them.  ASDs are probably the best, but if I were to get LGDs I would get Prys.  We have 23 sheep right now.  

Only once did we have a neighbors dog kill a lamb; a beautiful ram lamb who we could have easily gotten $200 for him.  The neighbors assured us their dog(s) would not run loose again and get under our field wire fence.

Of course, next thing we know one of their dogs is on our land *chasing and barking at US!*

In Texas you can shoot and kill dogs that go after livestock.  The sheriff's office told us to shoot to kill.  We could not do that so we sent the neighbors a certified letter stating Texas Statute, and their dogs have been contained ever since.  That was about 3 or 4 years ago.  

I don't know if I could shoot to kill, but I would like to think I could.

A neighbor had a huge feral tom cat attack their geriatric dogs.  Both dogs lost parts of both ears and were badly bitten.  The neighbor could not get the cat off the dogs so he had to shoot it while it was still on the dogs.


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## elevan (May 1, 2011)

rockdoveranch said:
			
		

> Oh My Gosh!  I started tearing up when I read the OP!  I am SO sorry for what you and your babies went through.  Horrible HORRIBLE experience!
> 
> LGDs are the way to go, but we do not have them.  ASDs are probably the best, but if I were to get LGDs I would get Prys.  We have 23 sheep right now.
> 
> ...


If you so much as hesitate and don't think you can shoot to kill then you really shouldn't even shoot.  Causing the dog to suffer before death can be cause for charges to brought against YOU (the shooter).  Here in Ohio if we don't kill with the first shot, the owner of the dog can lawfully charge us or bring a lawsuit against us.  So get a clean shot or SSS.


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## rockdoveranch (May 1, 2011)

What does SSS mean?

I just reread the Texas Statute. I keep it with the dead ram lambs records and pictures.  I cannot find anywhere anything about killing on the first shot.  It just talks about killing the dog or coyote.

Is does say:

"(b)  A person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog or coyote."

Our governor shot and killed a coyote when he was jogging with his dog.  He was carrying the weapon illegally.  I read the article and comments mainly because I do not like the guy and wanted to see what people had to say.  From what I remember it did not say if he shot one or more times.  

We find dead deer on our property that were shot and not killed immediately.  They must suffer horribly.


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## elevan (May 1, 2011)

rockdoveranch said:
			
		

> What does SSS mean?
> 
> I just reread the Texas Statute. I keep it with the dead ram lambs records and pictures.  I cannot find anywhere anything about killing on the first shot.  It just talks about killing the dog or coyote.
> 
> ...


Different states have different laws of course.

SSS = Shoot Shovel Shut up


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## carolinagirl (May 1, 2011)

SSS means Shoot, Shovel and Shut up.  Personally, this is probably the best way to go in most cases.  I am so sorry to hear about these poor goats being attacked.  I hope she pulls through.  I have had so many goats killed or damaged by dogs through the years.  Most of the dogs were people's pets who were allowed to run loose.  It infuriates me why people seem to think that is OK.  My LGD will be an Anatolian shepherd.


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## jodief100 (May 1, 2011)

I am so sorry for you.    I hope your girl pulls through.  
I suggest contacting the owner of the dog and sending them the vet bill.  Most states allow for you to protect your livestock from dogs with lethal force if necessary.   
Some even require dogs caught chasing livestock to be euthanized.  Look into your state laws and send the neighbors a copy of what you find.

I love dogs and would never wish to harm someone's pet.  But if the choice is their animal or mine and it is on my property, my animal wins.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 1, 2011)

Im sooooo sorry for you!! Thats terrible news!! I hope she pulls through!!!    That breaks my heart!! 

Best of luck!!


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## ohiofarmgirl (May 1, 2011)

oh no! 

sorry Hola - hope she is ok. you might want to file charges with the local sheriff. if those dogs are after your stock they are probably after others also. and you may need to build a case against the owners, including the vet bills. 

us? we'd shoot the dogs but if its someone that you know it makes it harder. 

i'd suggest a stop at TSC and getting the 5 mile charger, wire, and the tools to get electric running asap.  cuz.. yeah.. those dogs will be back.

sorry
:-(


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## Holachicka (May 1, 2011)

Thanks guys! I knew I could count on you for support!

If my hubby or I had ran out with a gun, we would have taken the shot. Out here, there are signs posted all over the place stating, Dogs caught hurting or worrying livestock may be shot. The county puts the signs up.  

I would hate to shoot these pets, and they are doing only what dogs will do, but it is the owners responsibilty to keep them contained and I will protect my animals.

Bella is home now. she looks terrible. Her neck is wrapped and she has a horrible bow to her neck. The vet say's he is cautiosly optimistic, and his main concern is that there may be some serious damage to the bones because of all the bone chips he pulled out. Only time will tell and I'll see him again next friday to take out the drainage tubes., and he will determine if she needs more surgery to remair the tissue. If she pulls through, there will be some permanent muscle damage, and she will have a bow to her neck, but her quality of life will not be affected.

The main thing she has going for her is that she is young, 1 year, and she has always had a huge appetite, so she is still eating. She's really wobbly right now. We are considering getting a donkey or burrow to help protect our girls.

We got ahold of the owner, he is out of town, and feels terrible. He offered to "help" with the vet bills, and DH gently told him that if one of our dogs got out and did this, we would be responsible for all of the bills. He is going to come over tomorrow evening to check on our girls, and talk. He really is a great guy, I just hope he understands that he is responsible and we will explain that if there is a next time, we will shoot to kill. 

We are documenting everything, and if we have to then we will file the reports with animal control and the sherriffs dept. I really hope it doesn't come to that.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 1, 2011)

You're being far more generous towards him and his dogs than I would be.  I have 3 dogs, none of which put my livestock at risk.  Owning dogs with a high prey drive makes him doubly responsible for keeping them contained.  Even if he pays the entire vet bill willingly, I'd still document the incident with animal control or the local sheriff's department.


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## Livinwright Farm (May 1, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> Thanks guys! I knew I could count on you for support!
> 
> If my hubby or I had ran out with a gun, we would have taken the shot. Out here, there are signs posted all over the place stating, Dogs caught hurting or worrying livestock may be shot. The county puts the signs up.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I know it sounds like a mean thing to do, but you *need* to file a report with animal control, sheriff's dept, and/or local police. The sooner the better. Whether or not the dogs have done this before, the autorities will handle the situation and the report will only help enforce that the owner of them does the right thing.
If the dogs _have_ been reported before, then the authorities will do what needs to be done and your goats won't have to worry about them any more.

PS: the owner sounds like he isn't willing to pay the consequences... yet another reason to get the report filed ASAP.


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## elevan (May 1, 2011)

I agree that you should go ahead and file the report.  You may even have a limited amount of time to do so depending on your laws. You really don't know what the dogs may have done before and you really cannot count on the owner to be honest about their transgressions either.


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## redtailgal (May 2, 2011)

........


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## Roll farms (May 2, 2011)

We've had to warn different neighbors over the years.  Most take it to heart, but our next door neighbors just cannot / will not / don't seem to care.  
We've shot one of their dogs, and have caught / returned others.
They keep the female(s) tied outside, having mutt pups over and over, and the pups grow up / come visiting b/c they're not tied.  
Our LGD's killed one.

It is very frustrating to be a good dog owner surrounded by idiots...


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 2, 2011)

Im happy to hear shes hanging in there!! I hope she makes it through okay for you.  Being home is a good sign.  Praying for a healthy recovery!!  

As for neighbors and other peoples dogs...Im sorry...I would report it..give them the vet bill and remind them next time thier dogs are on your property threatening my livestock..they will be shot.  They have a responsibility to keep their animals safe too...and any animal threatening my livestock is not safe around here!!  

Im sorry you have to go through a battle and an seriously injured goat.  Some days out plates get very full!!


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## swest (May 2, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> I am sorry
> 
> Have a gun and be prepared to shoot...
> 
> the vet's right the dogs will come back...


Shoot first ask questions later....


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## rockdoveranch (May 2, 2011)

We went to the sheriff's office only after our neighbor's dog was back on our land, and having been promised their dogs would be contained and never go our land again after their one dog killed our ram lamb.   

First off, the sheriff told us to shoot the dog.

But we were also told we could file a report, and we were given the option of having the sheriff go out to talk to the people and/or have him ticket the people.  

He also suggested we simply talk to them or send them a certified letter as a paper trail.  

The certified letter worked, and the incident is on record with the sheriff's office.  Prior to this we had had over problems with these people.

We cannot see their property or our far pasture from our house or middle track.  We now keep the mature rams out there; hair sheep Texas Barbado rams.  We have another neighbor who was so badly injured by their Texas Barbado ram that she has been on disability ever since.

Talk to anyone out here and they think our neighbors are the nicest people.  

We DID put one of those wildlife cameras out there and so far have not seen any activity near the fence line.


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## Holachicka (May 2, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> And, I know that was a terrible thing for you to have to see.  We recently lost two goats to a dog, they were screaming for me as I ran to them.  It was gut wrenching.  For days afterward, I keep thinking I heard the other one screaming, when he wasnt.  Even now, when they talk during the day, I run to see whats going on.
> 
> I was a nervous wreck for awhile, worrying every night, even though they were shut up in the barn.  It really, really sucks to lose that sense of security, to realize that your animals arent safe in the own home.
> 
> ...


Yes!! I am a nervous wreck! I am always running out to check every little sound, and as soon as I open that door, DH is right behind me with a gun. 

We are dog lovers too, and we can empathise with the guy, One of our dogs has a very strong prey drive, and if he had the oportunity he would do the same thing. BUT we don't give him the chance. 

I'm pretty sure this is his dogs first offense. the owners have a fenced in vinyard that the dogs dug out of and into our pasture. I'm hoping he won't allow his dogs to roam anymore. I'll find out more tonight when he comes by. 

We are going to file a complaint after we talk to him, that way if we do have to shoot, it's on record that the dogs have a history of harming livestock, just to cover our A@@. We will let the owner know that if they come back we will shoot to kill. 

Bella girl is hanging in there, Lots of pain because the dogs's teeth went straight to the bone and chiped off peices of her vertabrae, and the vet said it's just pure nerve endings there. She is lucky because she is our pig and has always had a voracious appetite, because of this she's still eating with gusto and keeping up her strength. She'll be on pain meds for a week and of course antibiotics. I just wish I could make her more comfortable. She's in a 6x6 kennel our with our other girls so she feels more at home. I'll try and get a pic posted so you guys can see the awful bow in her neck. 

Thanks for all the support and warm wishes, I really appreciate it!

Anyone have any experiences with donkeys or burrows as gaurdians?


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## Okie Amazon (May 2, 2011)

JUst bear in mind that that generally speaking, they will guard against YOU just as well as anything else. I have also heard of people getting them and then having to get rid of them for attacking the very animals they are supposed to be guarding!


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## carolinagirl (May 2, 2011)

I think you would be better off with a dog.  We had a donkey once and it brayed at the moon all night long.  And we had a llama once that liked the neighbor's dogs.  My livestock guardian will be an anatolian shepherd.  I am really glad Bella is hanging in there.  Poor thing!


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## 20kidsonhill (May 2, 2011)

I am glad to hear she is eating well, it will help her heal faster.


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## goodhors (May 2, 2011)

Even at this late date, you should report the attack to the County Sheriff or Animal Control.  Take photos NOW of the goat injuries, before they heal.

If you don't make reports, there is NO RECORD for the authorities to work with.  Dog has "never been a problem" say the owners, and there is nothing but you whining about repeated attacks.

Some states give dogs a "first Bite" probation, while others do not.  You need to ask about Livestock Protection laws as well.  Here ANY DOG after another animal, Wildlife, farm animals, birds, is allowed to be shot as a menace.

If you kill it, SSS comes into play.  However some folks will want damages paid, so they go after the owner.  MUCH better chance to collect if this is not the first report, dead dog at your house.  

And some dog owners get irate, even with dog caught in the act, may sue you back.  Defending yourself in court can be expensive, mentally tiring, and then trying to collect the damages from owners.

However with no "Official Report" made to authorities, the livestock owner has no leg to stand on when the second or more attacks happen later.  And the dogs WILL be back as stated, that goat chasing was FUN!!  They are just dogs, so you have to get Owner involved with an AC officer visit, hit them in the checkbook to get their attention.  Dogs might go after screaming children next time.  Once a dog gets in with another, Pack Law rules, they are totally different animals than Fluffy is, in the house.

Just noticed this was an OLD post, with new comments added.


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## Holachicka (May 2, 2011)

Lol, Not that old, the attack happened Saturday! But we did decide that we will file the complaint. Also, the owner has not said this was the dogs first offense, I was assuming based on his suprise. We will be talking to him tonight, and prefer to not attack him unless he does not take responsibility. He is our neighbor, and a great person, I don't expect him to make this a legal battle. but we will be prepared if he does. In my experience, if you go into a situation with your fists up and ready to do battle, you will get a fight. We plan on talking with him about his responsibility, and weighing his reaction. When he said he wanted to help, I don't think he realized that he was fully responsible. Again, we won't know until we speak to him.

Here are pics of my sweet bella, showing the bow in her neck due to the lack of her muscle, and we are praying not due to any fractures.

If anyone creates a first aid kit for thier goats, please include some diapers. The vet used a diaper as part of the wrap because it is clean, absorbs fliuds well and has velcro tabs to hold it in place. Her wrap comes off tomorrow and I will take more pics.


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## chandasue (May 2, 2011)

That looks awful... I hope she recovers.

We have a couple strays that have been coming around and luckily we're also in an area that it's legal to shoot strays if they're acting threatening. Our neighbors prized hunting dogs got into our chicken coop a couple years ago. We're not on unfriendly terms since then but we don't stop to chat anymore since we informed him that if they come on our yard again they're dead. Fortunately his dogs have not been a problem since but a big fence between our properties helped that. We can't fence in our property entirely though since it backs up to wetlands so we still get dogs that are running up and down the creek once in a while. Always be prepared....


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## Holachicka (May 3, 2011)

We spoke to our neighbor today, and are really lucky! He feels terrible, and will pay the bill, as well as keep his dogs contained! He plans on getting the electronic shock collar fencing for them.

Bella didn't look so good today. Her face started swelling so I removed the bandages a day early, and that seemed to help. I spoke with the vet about the swelling and they agreed with the bandage removal. Their thoughts are as long as she's eating and drinking, we can only wait and see.

It's so hard watching her in so much pain! I wish I could do more!


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## Roll farms (May 3, 2011)

I hope she feels better soon.  Bless her heart...

Hopefully the neighbor 'gets it' and is able to keep them away.


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## freemotion (May 3, 2011)

I hope she recovers nicely for you.  Did she get some B vitamins?  I'd give her some if not.


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## carolinagirl (May 3, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I hope she feels better soon.  Bless her heart...
> 
> Hopefully the neighbor 'gets it' and is able to keep them away.


I bet when he sees that vet bill he will 'get it' loud and clear.  Poor little goatie.  I sure do hope she recovers.


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## aggieterpkatie (May 3, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> He plans on getting the electronic shock collar fencing for them.


Where is the "thumbs down" smilie?  I hate those fences. There's no physical barrier. If the dog wants out, he just runs out and puts up with the shock.  If my dog attacked livestock, you can bet your sweet bum I would not rely on the underground fence.


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## carolinagirl (May 3, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> Holachicka said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agree completly.  Those fences are OK for a calm dog, but if a dog is on the chase (squirrel, cat, etc) they cross the underground wire so fast they are on the other side before they even get a shock.  And then it's too late....they are on the other side and free.  I would insist on regular fencing or kennels for the offending dogs.


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## Livinwright Farm (May 3, 2011)

carolinagirl said:
			
		

> aggieterpkatie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


x2!

On a related note: if the dogs step foot on your property again, I would NOT hesitate in Shooting To Kill! The owner was warned, and apparently doesn't have any respect for your animals.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 3, 2011)

I like to take the approach of understanding; the neighbor apologized, is paying the bills, and is trying to address the containment issue. Maybe a little unaware that the kind of fencing he wants to use is not very affective, but trying none-the-less.  I would be thankful, the neighbor cares that much and keep working with him. He is your neighbor after all.  

Does your fencing border your neighbor"s property? If so, here in VA, neighbors in the country share a 50/50 cost in fencing on property lines. You maybe could get him to go in on some electric on you fencing to help you with the cost and since it is his dogs making you have to do more to the fencing he might agree to some of the cost.  Just a thought. 

I hope your doe keeps improveing, she looks in pretty rough shape.  I am wondering if she would eat her grain with some extra protein added with it, A couple thoughts would be a raw egg mixed in, a part of a can of ensure mixed in, we would add up to a whole can of ensure a day per 90 to 100 lb goat getting them ready for the show. Has lots of vitamines and protein.


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## Holachicka (May 3, 2011)

Yes, please give this guy the benifit of the doubt, he came over, was very remorseful, is going to pay the bills, and has kept the dogs in a kennel since he heard of the attack. He didn't question if I was sure it was his dogs, accepted the fact that I recogized them as his, and is genuinly trying to do the right thing. Even if I have to discuss other options for containing his dogs, we were very lucky that he has been so great about trying to do the right thing at this point.

This morning I gave Bella her pain shot asap, and an hour later went out to check on her, she is moving around a lot more, and seems to be doing so much better than yesterday!! She even gave me a few tail wags when I gave her some loves! She still looks awful, but I am so pleased that her demeanor is improving! Swelling has gone down quite a bit in her face, Here is a recent pic:


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## carolinagirl (May 3, 2011)

yes, you are very lucky he is taking responsibility for this.  Most dog owners would not do that. 

I am so glad she is feeling better!  Does the vet think her neck will straighten out later?  Even if it doesn't, she is alive and looks like she will stay that way.  That's GOOD news!!


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## elevan (May 3, 2011)

I'm glad she is home and feeling a little better.

I would sit down with the neighbor and express my concerns over his choice of containment though...that type of fencing requires consistent training of the dog before they can be "let loose" in the yard and even then if the dog really wants to give chase they'll simply run right through the "shock".


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## Okie Amazon (May 3, 2011)

What did the vet say the "bowing" was caused by? Did she lose that much muscle mass? Dislocated vertebrae? Hopefully she is holding it that way herself out of pain and will gradually straighten up. Maybe some physical therapy when she heals more?


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## aggieterpkatie (May 3, 2011)

I guess what I meant by the fence comment was not to let your guard down.  You don't really have a choice on what kind of fence he chooses, and it's great that he's being responsible for the bills, I just would still be on guard.  

Glad she's feeling better today.


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## elevan (May 3, 2011)

Okie Amazon said:
			
		

> What did the vet say the "bowing" was caused by? Did she lose that much muscle mass? Dislocated vertebrae? Hopefully she is holding it that way herself out of pain and will gradually straighten up. Maybe some physical therapy when she heals more?


Kind of reminds me of when DH throws his back out...he curves to one side...doctor said it's the body's way of compensating.  It always goes back to normal.  Hopefully it will for your doe too.


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## Holachicka (May 3, 2011)

Well, the muscles in her neck took the most damage to her left side, they were all hamburger, the vet said. Without the muscles supporting that left side, her head bows to the right. There is also the possibility that there is a fracture in the vertabrae, and we won't know until later if her neck will straighten out. He will re-evaluate on Friday when we go in to have the tubes removed. I spoke to him about the quality of life she would have if she does recover. She will probably have permanent damage and have a curve to her neck, but otherwise be perfectly happy. 

It's just touch and go right now and I REALLY HATE this waiting game! I spoke to the vet today, and we are probably going to keep her on the pain meds longer that first prescribed because she really shuts down between doses. Poor baby! 

Oh, And it turns out I misunderstood the type of fencing the dog owner is going to buy, DH corrected me. I guess that the dogs will wear a shock collar, but there will be no wire, just something that will shock them and progressively get stronger as the dogs go further from the base? Anyone ever hear of this?


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## carolinagirl (May 4, 2011)

http://www.hitecpet.com/electric-fence-upgrade.html

this must be what he is talking about.  I really would be very fearful about this being the only containment for those dogs that have already proven they are goat killers.  Once they have attacked a goat, they are even more likely to want to do it again.


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## ohiofarmgirl (May 4, 2011)

> , he came over, was very remorseful, is going to pay the bills, and has kept the dogs in a kennel since he heard of the attack. He didn't question if I was sure it was his dogs, accepted the fact that I recogized them as his, and is genuinly trying to do the right thing.


Hola, this is great news and i'm sure you feel much better about the whole thing. and i think you have a great neighbor even if his dogs were loose. 

i'll agree with Aggie tho and dont let your guard down. its on that guy to contain his dogs but i'd still spend the money to get the security at your place beefed up. if anything its good to know that some kind of predator was able to get thru - if one did then other can too. we heard a fox last nite so i think things are on the prowl these day and will be working to get our placed locked down.

give little bella pats on the head and give yourself a break from all the worry - its been a rough couple of days!

*hugs*


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## dianneS (May 4, 2011)

> I guess that the dogs will wear a shock collar, but there will be no wire, just something that will shock them and progressively get stronger as the dogs go further from the base? Anyone ever hear of this?


Yes, that is "invisible fencing" or "underground fencing".  There is no actual physical fence just an invisible barrier and the dog gets a beep from their collar as they approach the boarder and then they get shocked progressively harder as they try to pass through it.

Very determined dogs will run right through it and endure the shock because once they are on the other side, they are out of range and the collar stops shocking them.

These types of fences are great with docile, obedient dogs.  My Cavalier King Charles Spaniel got zapped once and never tested his boundaries again.  His sister, a seven pound Papillion always tested the boundaries.  If the fence happened to be faulty that day, she would take off if she didn't hear that beep or get zapped.

An invisible fence is harder to maintain since you can't see if the fence has gone down at any point.  The dogs can learn to tolerate the shock and escape, the batteries could die in the collar, the underground wire could get cut by a shovel or chewed off by a ground mole.  The only way to know if an invisible fence is working is to test it every day and even then there is no guarantee the dogs will respect it.  Dogs have to actually be trained to respect invisible fence and if they are not trained properly, they may never respect it.

If the neighbor has his dogs in a kennel and the invisible fence is in addition to that, I would see that as acceptable, but invisible fence alone is not much security unless you're dealing with a mild mannered pet and not a dog capable of attacking another animal.

So sorry this happened to you!  Hang in there and keep us posted.  I would be a wreck if this happened to any of my babies.


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## Jansalem (May 4, 2011)

Our neighbor's dog killed our lamb.  We called the police and they informed us that we were within our rights to shoot if it came into the pasture again.  When the police spoke to the neighbor he denied that they owned the dog.  Since we have seen the dog chained at their house before, we had a private chat with the neighbor.  They know now that lying to the police is a crime and have kept the dog chained since.
We also put up electric fencing at the top and bottom.  The only reliable protection is an offensive approach.  Electricity will keep predators out.


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## Holachicka (May 4, 2011)

We have definately not let our guard down since the incident. Loking the goats and chickens up tight at night. Among other things, we have a game cam set up and there are a few coyotes roaming our 5 acres from about 8pm and through the night, and when the neighbor stopped by to pay us for the vet bill, he let us know he saw a mountain lion crossing the street about a half mile away. They have a 5 mile radius and he was worried that it would smell the blood from bella's wounds and come calling. 

The fence isn't the underground wire type, once the dog goes past a certain distance from the base station he will get a shock and continue to be shocked at stronger intervals until he returns. BUT what if the battery dies? what if one of his kids takes off the collar? it would only take one time and they'd be back.

On a funnier note, I had one of my "city" friends and her daughter over yesterday for a play date  and when I heard my dog barking and couldn't see all of my goats, I put my hand on her shoulder and said: Don't flip out on me ok? and grabbed out shotgun from it's hiding space and ran outside. You should have seen the look on her face when I came back!!!  The goats were fine, Dog was barking at a squirrel.


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## ohiofarmgirl (May 4, 2011)

SQUIRREL! 

hee hee hee 

i had a similar experience.. the city friends are usually shocked and horrified at what goes on here.
;-)


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## Livinwright Farm (May 4, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> We have definately not let our guard down since the incident. Loking the goats and chickens up tight at night. Among other things, we have a game cam set up and there are a few coyotes roaming our 5 acres from about 8pm and through the night, and when the neighbor stopped by to pay us for the vet bill, he let us know he saw a mountain lion crossing the street about a half mile away. They have a 5 mile radius and he was worried that it would smell the blood from bella's wounds and come calling.
> 
> The fence isn't the underground wire type, once the dog goes past a certain distance from the base station he will get a shock and continue to be shocked at stronger intervals until he returns. BUT what if the battery dies? what if one of his kids takes off the collar? it would only take one time and they'd be back.
> 
> On a funnier note, I had one of my "city" friends and her daughter over yesterday for a play date  and when I heard my dog barking and couldn't see all of my goats, I put my hand on her shoulder and said: Don't flip out on me ok? and grabbed out shotgun from it's hiding space and ran outside. You should have seen the look on her face when I came back!!!  The goats were fine, Dog was barking at a squirrel.


I know the type he is talking about... it is called a wireless radio fence, and it works great for relaxed dogs(labs, collies, retrievers)... but it does *NOT* work with determined dogs. http://www.discount-pet-superstore.com/wireless_fence/instant_fence.htm  He really should use actual fence with electric run around the perimeter.
As for the mountain lion issue: you need to get the highest voltage electric fence possible(TSC carries one that is good against LARGE predators). We have mountain lion in my area as well... and are going to be installing the highest voltage fencing around the regular fencing.


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## dianneS (May 4, 2011)

> The fence isn't the underground wire type, once the dog goes past a certain distance from the base station he will get a shock and continue to be shocked at stronger intervals until he returns. BUT what if the battery dies? what if one of his kids takes off the collar? it would only take one time and they'd be back.


Those wireless versions are even more unreliable than the underground fencing types.


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## carolinagirl (May 5, 2011)

update please?  How is your doe doing today?


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## Holachicka (May 5, 2011)

Bella's doing about the same, She's down to one pain shot a day now, but when I see the vet tomorrow to have the tubes removed, I'll he'll put her back on two because she's still hurting. The tubes don't seem to be ding much, there is really no drainage coming out, I'm not sure if that is bad or not...

She seems to be moving her head around a bit more, but today was a very hot day, she was panting and seemed pretty lethargic. No tail wagging today


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 5, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> Bella's doing about the same, She's down to one pain shot a day now, but when I see the vet tomorrow to have the tubes removed, I'll he'll put her back on two because she's still hurting. The tubes don't seem to be ding much, there is really no drainage coming out, I'm not sure if that is bad or not...
> 
> (


There shouldn't be anything draining out of the tubes really, the tubes are there to keep the wound from closing up so that it can continue to drain freely.


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## Holachicka (May 6, 2011)

Headed back to the vet to have the tubes removed and the wounds checked... Keep your fingers crossed for good news!!!


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## elevan (May 6, 2011)




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## chandasue (May 6, 2011)

Update???


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## Holachicka (May 7, 2011)

Well, The vet said Bella girl is an amazing goat for surviving thus far. She removed the drain tubes and flushed the wounds. When she flushed the right side, it came out clear, but she smelled an "odor" and is worried that there may be some dying muscle tissue in there. We go back on tuesday for a re-evaluation, and if there is any, the wound will have to be reopened and dead tissue removed. She told me that she'd be suprised if she doesn't need another surgery.

It the meantime, I continue antibiotics, she has a new pain med and I am to apply hot compresses as often as I can to get the circulation going in that tissue. 

Great thing is Bella LOVED the hot compress tonight! She closed her eyes in bliss and leaned against me  

There are still SO many things that can go wrong at this point. Unknown fractures, antibiotic resistant bacterias, All kinds of stuff. It's a little disenheartening when the vets keep warning me that these types of wounds are tricky and she can go downhill fast at any time. But for now, she is slowly and steadily improving, moving her head and neck around a little more each day. 

Thanks for your support!!


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## chandasue (May 7, 2011)

Good that she likes the pampering. Hoping for the best!


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## ksalvagno (May 7, 2011)

Glad to hear she is doing ok. I hope she continues her improvement and amazes the vets.


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## elevan (May 7, 2011)

My goats and I are sending healing thoughts to the beautiful Bella.


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## Holachicka (May 7, 2011)

Sweet bella refused to eat this morning. Headed out to give her some vitamine B now, balling my eyes out.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 7, 2011)




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## Holachicka (May 7, 2011)

Went out to check again, She's eaten very little and when I sat out there with her, she tried to crawl in my lap. She just wanted me to give her loves. her demeanor is drastically changing and I'm really worried.


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## Margali (May 7, 2011)

Is she acting like she is in pain? You said the doc switched her to a different pain medicine. Some pain killers do not work on everyone or every animal.

Also when I had chest tubes taken out I was exhausted for two days. I hope she feels better. *hugs*


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## jodief100 (May 7, 2011)

So sorry.  I hope she gets better.


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## rockdoveranch (May 7, 2011)

Hola,

I feel so sad reading your last two posts.

We have had lambs in the house with us while bottle feeding, up to 3 1/2 months for one of them.  

Have you thought about bringing her in the house with you to help comfort her by being close to you?

Please keep us posted.


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## PattySh (May 7, 2011)

How sad, those darn dogs. My heart goes out to you.  I hope she'll start to eat.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 8, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> Went out to check again, She's eaten very little and when I sat out there with her, she tried to crawl in my lap. She just wanted me to give her loves. her demeanor is drastically changing and I'm really worried.


Don't give up.  At the beginning of the year my yearling buck was seriously ill and spent a few days on my bathroom floor, buck stink be darned.  He alternated between just wanting to be in my lap and not being able to lift his head off the floor until I was convinced he was a goner.  My vet didn't think he was going to live.  Rx antibiotics and some committed supportive care (and the help of goat friends via texts in the middle of the night!) saved him.  

If she goes off her feed altogether it is going to be extremely important to keep some kind of fiber in her to keep her rumen from shutting down.  I drenched our buck with a soaked alfalfa pellet slurry to keep something in there.  It was a major pain because at that point he simply did not want to eat, but it worked.  

If you don't already have C&D Antitoxin order it NOW just in case.  Rumenal stasis sets them up for entero and you have to be ready to treat it fast.  I'd put Bloat Release on the order as well if it's not already in your medicine cabinet.  A bag of fluids from the vet are also a good thing to have on hand in case of emergency and SQ fluids are very easy to administer.

As long as she's still eating her hay, even if it's not much, you probably won't need to worry about that.  I really hope for you that it doesn't come to that, but being ready to get her through a rough patch with good supportive care while she fights the infection could save her.  Best wishes for you and your doe!


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## terrilhb (May 8, 2011)

Sending lots of prayers and hugs


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## rockdoveranch (May 8, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> Holachicka said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


n.smithurmond,

We keep Pedialyte and Karo Syrup on hand in the event of an emergency here with our lambs or ewes.  Would these things helpful to Bella?


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 8, 2011)

I use Bounceback as an electrolyte supplement, but if they're to the point where they're not eating then I go right to SQ fluids in addition to offering water with Bounceback.  The only cause I've had for Karo or Molasses is for the does post-kidding, so I don't know about that.


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## Holachicka (May 8, 2011)

Good news! Bella started acting herself again last night, she eventually did finish her food, and when I went out to give her the second daily antibiotic shot, she really tried to avoid it, going circles around me in the pen. She was previously just letting me do whatever so I take this as a very good sign. I fed her today before the shots and she was again eating like her normal piggy self!

I'm starting to suspect that the new pain meds make her pretty dopey and that was the reason for the drastic changes in her yesterday. She seems to be feeling much better without the pain meds so I'll talk to the vet tomorrow before I give it to her. 

My other concern is that the vitamin B just gave her a boost and she's really not doing all that well. 

There is still the huge concern about her muscle tissue dying and needing more surgery, as well as the many other things that can go wrong. BUT so far she is holding her own. Thanks again for all the support and advice.


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## elevan (May 8, 2011)

Glad she's feeling a little better!


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## rockdoveranch (May 8, 2011)

Yeah!  I am so happy after reading your post!


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## carolinagirl (May 9, 2011)

That is excellent news.  I am pulling for her to make a full recovery!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 9, 2011)




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## Holachicka (May 9, 2011)

Well, we had a thunderstorm today, and the other goats had pulled the roof panels off of Bella's temporary pen, So I went out to recover her. The combination of the storm and me lifting the panels spooked her and she fell on her neck. She rolled onto her back and started this awful screaming and could not get up. I went in there with her and helped her up, and she was shaking and stumbling around. Her neck was twisted to an even sharper angle. I kept an eye on her and she fell down a couple more times before she was steady again. 

I feel so awful. I'm really afraid that the fall may have broken an already unstable fracture. DH and I are talking about having her put down, because if she needs more surgury, there is still very large chance that she will not recover. She is still eating but loosing weight very quickly, and I'm really hesitant to put her through any more pain and trama if she is not going to survive. I hate taking her to the vet because it is so frightening and traumatic for her, as well as painful because of the windy roads we have to drive for 45 min to get he to the vet.

I'm really torn and feeling pretty down today. This is an emotional rollercoaster.


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## elevan (May 9, 2011)

It pains me to hear that the beautiful Bella has aggravated her injury 

It's such a difficult decision to make, I know. You have to do what you feel is right.  I pray for strength for you and peace for your beautiful Bella in whatever decision that you make.


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## rockdoveranch (May 9, 2011)

Hola, 

Your last post is so sad.   

Making the decision whether to euthanize or not is so very difficult.  We have to consider pain and suffering, quality of life, and our own personal beliefs.

In my opinion, poor little Bella must be in horrible, horrible pain (and fear) to allow you to see it.  Most animals will not show pain as concealing pain is a survival instinct.

1 1/2 years ago I had to decide whether to euthanize my Boxer dog.  It was HORRIBLE.  He suddenly became ill and could not urinate.  An xray showed a large kidney stone trapped in his urethra.  Surgery was not guaranteed to be successful, and even had it been, my poor dog would have lead a very poor quality of life.  After an hour I decided to have him euthanized.  I put a blanket on the vet's floor, sat down and cradled my dog while he was put to sleep.  We brought him home and buried him.

Although I have gone through this many times in my life time, I became very depressed and second guessed myself until we traveled to Texas A & M to have a necropsy done on a mature ram.  The vet at the medical school was kind enough to listen to my story about my Boxer and told me I did the right thing.  

To help you with your decision, you might want to talk it over with your vet.

Sending good energy your way.


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## Holachicka (May 9, 2011)

Thanks guys. DH and I made the choice tonight when we went to check up on her. Her neck is so tweaked, her chin is touching her shoulder. The neck is bent at more than a right angle. He and I are sure it's broken. The vet will come out tomorrow to put her down. I asked about giving her extra pain meds to keep her comfortable until tomorrow, and I will be doubling up with the remainder. 

This was such a hard choice to make. We are glad that she does not appear to be in too much pain now. When I spoke to the vet she was absolutly shocked that she is still standing, and still eating. 

With her stumbling around, it's really only a matter of time before she slips again, lands screaming in pain and we have to put her down ourselves. We know we're making the right choice for her, but it's still really hard and upsetting. She fought so hard to get better!!


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## rockdoveranch (May 10, 2011)

Take special care of yourself tomorrow, and find peace in knowing you did everything you could for Bella, and you are doing what is best for Bella now.


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## carolinagirl (May 10, 2011)

I am so sorry your efforts could not pull her through this.  You did everything possible to save her.  She was just too injured.  At this point, your decision to put her down is the right one.  My deepest sympathies to you today.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 10, 2011)

I am so sorry.  That's a tough choice, but I'm sure no one would fault you for it.


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## Roll farms (May 10, 2011)

I'm so very, very sorry.


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## dianneS (May 10, 2011)

I'm so sorry.  Its really tough when they are such little fighters but you know you're doing the right thing and she knows this.  Hang in there.

  

On a side note, doesn't this make your neighbors dog's offense even more serious?  Couldn't they be in even bigger trouble?


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## Goatherd (May 10, 2011)

That is very sad news.  You have done everything possible to save her and in that, you will find comfort.  Blessings to you.


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## happydodgefarm6113 (May 10, 2011)

I am very sad for you and your family. Many warm wishes headed your way today.


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## ohiofarmgirl (May 10, 2011)

sorry honey, thats a hard choice. but you've done everything you could for her. 

*hugs*


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## chandasue (May 10, 2011)

((HUGS))    It sounds like it is for the best.


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## helmstead (May 10, 2011)

I'm so sorry.  We've had to put down two adult does this spring (medical issues) and it's just heart wrenching.  My heart goes out to you, you've given her everything you could.


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## ksalvagno (May 10, 2011)

I'm so sorry. I lost one of my favorite does during birthing. The kid was too large and ripped her uterus almost in half. I also had to make the decision to euthanize since there was no way the vet could clean out her peritoneal cavity properly from all the uterine contents. I know what  you are going through.


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## Emmetts Dairy (May 10, 2011)

I am soooo very sorry for you guys     What a horrible situation. Poor girl.  It is heartwrenching...but your doing the right thing by her! But its soooo tough I know.  

Thinking of you...Hope you find peace in your hearts through this!


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## Okie Amazon (May 10, 2011)

I've been keeeping up with Bella's struggle and I am so sorry. You have done everything humanly possible for her. My heart goes out to you.


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## goatsintheopen (May 10, 2011)

I am soo* soooo* Sorry to hear about your goat!!!   those dogs would have been shot dead if that had happened here.  

 It is just heartbreaking to read what you've had to go through.


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## Holachicka (May 10, 2011)

Thanks everyone for your kindness. I really feel the support when I let it all out on this forum! I feel so guilty! I keep thinking the straw was too thick, making it slippery and I spooked her and that was what caused her to fall and cause irrepairable damage. 

She's comfortable on her pain meds and we are just waiting for the vet at this point. She is now unable to stand so we know that it isn't a choice anymore. In a way it's a bit comforting knowing that she won't have to go through more surgery.

This is a pic of my sweet girl a few months ago, eating my friends sweater. She came with her son for a play date with our goats!


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## goatsintheopen (May 10, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone for your kindness. I really feel the support when I let it all out on this forum! I feel so guilty! I keep thinking the straw was too thick, making it slippery and I spooked her and that was what caused her to fall and cause irrepairable damage.
> 
> She's comfortable on her pain meds and we are just waiting for the vet at this point. She is now unable to stand so we know that it isn't a choice anymore. In a way it's a bit comforting knowing that she won't have to go through more surgery.
> 
> ...


Bless your heart!!   I so understand what you are feeling and I can't say how badly I feel for you!   its just such  a HORRIBLE ordeal.  

 I wish I could give you real hugs cause I know you need them. * It wasn't your fault *and you did do everything possible for your goat.  More than some people would have.   try not to blame yourself for anything.


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## jlbpooh (May 10, 2011)

It is so sad when people are irresponsible with their dogs. I feel very bad for you. At least she had a wonderful life with your family. My thoughts will be with you tomorrow.


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## elevan (May 10, 2011)

You did everything that you could do for Bella and showed her so much love during her pain.  You and the beautiful Bella are in my thoughts and prayers.

_It was not your fault.  Accidents happen and she would not have been in the situation to be hurt worse if your neighbors dog hadn't attacked her to begin with._


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## goatdreamerCT (May 11, 2011)

So sorry to hear about Bella. I second what everyone else has already stated. You've made the right decision for Bella and wouldn't have had to make it if it weren't for the neighbor's dog . I was really pulling for Bella though and am sad to hear she didn't make it. Sending you all the prayers for strength to help you through this sad time.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (May 11, 2011)

Thank you for doing all that you could for Bella. You are a great owner.


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## Holachicka (May 12, 2011)

Thanks everyone! I was just so upset yesterday and felt so guilty. Today is a much better day, with Bella gone, we are releved that she is not in pain any more and it really shows. Even our other goats are so much more relaxed, and back to playing and running around, rather than standing about looking depressed. Our neighbor is really awesome, he's covering the costs of the vet bills as well as the cost of a new goat. 
We filed a report with animal control last week, and they paid him a visit. They checked his property to be certain that the containment system was appropriate for his dogs, and discussed the consequences if his dogs get out again. I guess they really take dog attacks very seriously. If they attack again, we have every right to shoot. If we don't then the animals may be euthanised, and the owner will have to pay a heafty fine to the county as well as any damages due to us. Hopefully it doesn't come to that!


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## Roll farms (May 12, 2011)

I'm glad you're feeling better about it, and that the county is taking this seriously.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (May 12, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone! I was just so upset yesterday and felt so guilty. Today is a much better day, with Bella gone, we are releved that she is not in pain any more and it really shows. Even our other goats are so much more relaxed, and back to playing and running around, rather than standing about looking depressed. Our neighbor is really awesome, he's covering the costs of the vet bills as well as the cost of a new goat.
> We filed a report with animal control last week, and they paid him a visit. They checked his property to be certain that the containment system was appropriate for his dogs, and discussed the consequences if his dogs get out again. I guess they really take dog attacks very seriously. If they attack again, we have every right to shoot. If we don't then the animals may be euthanised, and the owner will have to pay a heafty fine to the county as well as any damages due to us. Hopefully it doesn't come to that!


That is very good news.  So many times we read stories about neighbors who are not willing to take responsibility and county agencies who don't seem to care.  You are very lucky!


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