# AI and Nigerian Dwarfs?



## WannaBeFarmR (Mar 26, 2013)

I was wondering if anyone artificially inseminates their ND goats. Do you know of a company that sells smaller equipment for the job? Or do people just rig something up that gets it done? Or do people not do this when it comes to the mini breeds?


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## Pearce Pastures (Mar 26, 2013)

I don't know anyone who do AI for their goats.  It is so expensive to start up and just seems easier to have a buck.  But if you are looking for very specific genetics from an amazing buck, I suppose that would be the way to do it.  Not something for the small farm though, more for those who are way into showing I would think.


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## WannaBeFarmR (Mar 26, 2013)

I know I'm not sure if I'd even bother with it for that reason, but I know someone who AI's cows so they have the tank already and the vet said they can do it pretty cheap but they thought the speculum they had for full size goats would be to big, I don't know but I would think so to. But I haven't found any online that are listed for ND or Pygmy sized does. There are sites that offer ND sire straws. So do people just use the smaller doeling sized equipment because even that seems like it would be to big. I'm not going to let someone do something that causes my does pain for no good reason.


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## michickenwrangler (Mar 27, 2013)

Sylverfly said:
			
		

> I was wondering if anyone artificially inseminates their ND goats. Do you know of a company that sells smaller equipment for the job? Or do people just rig something up that gets it done? Or do people not do this when it comes to the mini breeds?


Our 4-H leader does it. He's up in Lupton. He does it mostly for his Boers, but I know he has some Saanen straws too. Some of the teenage members are doing their 4H project this year on AI and he's doing a demo for them. Not sure when that will be, but he did tell all of them at the Feb meeting to be ready to go when he calls, since timing once the doe goes into heat is critical.

There always seem to be a lot of ND's on the Michigan ads, but I don't pay attention to how many are registered and what quality they are. My neighbor had a ND blue-eyed buck she ended up giving away because the market was so saturated with them. You should be able to find one. Heck, I should pick you up and we could go to the Clare auctions, see what we come home with.


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 27, 2013)

You asked if anyone AI'd their N.D goats.

We do not.

I don't think many people do at this point.

What are you trying to accomplish?


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 28, 2013)

I don't believe in it, and I obviously don't do it on my farm. If we breed any of our animals, it's the natural way. I could never get my girl pregnant from that, I'd feel too uncomfortable with that.

Not judging, just my opinion.


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## Renegade (Mar 28, 2013)

I have been doing AI for a few years but around here it's mostly Boer goats. If someone wanted me to do a ND I wouldn't hesitate to do it. We have 2 different sized speculums. The smaller of them would easily fit in a ND. 

Donna


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## elevan (Mar 29, 2013)

Renegade said:
			
		

> I have been doing AI for a few years but around here it's mostly Boer goats. If someone wanted me to do a ND I wouldn't hesitate to do it. We have 2 different sized speculums. The smaller of them would easily fit in a ND.
> 
> Donna


  Thanks for the input of experience in the situation.


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## babsbag (Mar 29, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> I don't know anyone who do AI for their goats.  It is so expensive to start up and just seems easier to have a buck.  But if you are looking for very specific genetics from an amazing buck, I suppose that would be the way to do it.  Not something for the small farm though, more for those who are way into showing I would think.


It is farily common where I live in CA. I have 3 friends that have tanks and they have offered me storage anytime I want to use it so that is a huge savings. I also have a great vet that raises goats so she is willing to do all the pre-treatment that the does need to make them cycle at a certain time. Our dairy goat club has members that host buck collection days, sounds funny, but a company comes out to your farm and collects the sperm for you to store, hope that doesn't offend anyone. We also do training days for people that want to learn to do AI

 I have thought about it just so I don't have to keep a buck and also so I don't have to have a buck for every breed I own. I have 4 breeds so if I want to breed them all to their "own kind" then that would be 4 bucks. Way to many for my housing set up. I have 2 right now and that is enough.

But it is expensive if you need to buy your own equipment for storing the straws.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 29, 2013)

In Washington, where I came from,  People AI all the time.  No big deal.  And they use the same equipment for the ND's as the full size goats.   NOT sure why.   BUT you can buy smaller equipment.  The vet can do the AI for you and many large animal vets will loan you a tank.  

Frankly,  AI is a good way to assure that your genetics stay sound and varied.   You can get straws from a herd in another part of the country and be sure that it is CAE/CL free, that it is Jonas tested, G6S tested (for Nubians)  that the animal is sound, that the animal has excellent genetics,  AND will produce kids that you can breed with your other goats.  AND in the long run, it can be way cheaper than borrowing or buying a buck.   

I have two goats that are the result of driving hours for a driveway breeding to a top of the line buck.   It was worth the drive, the money for the breeding, the time and the effort.  BUT if I could have used AI, I would have preferred it because it would have cost me far less in the long run.   AND the bloodlines would have been much more satisfactory.  BECAUSE, the buck I went to breed with, was pushed out of the way by another buck who jumped his pen and got one of my does.  I was OK with the results but AI would have prevented that...


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 29, 2013)

The OP was asking about AI for Nigerians.

Is their much semen available for ND's?

I don't think AI is prevelant in ND's.

Probably will be soon though, since a ND buck sold for $25K at last ADGA convention.


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 30, 2013)

I apologize if I offended anyone or made anyone uncomfortable. It was certainty not my intention and I won't use a harsh word like that again. I respect everyone's view on the subject, nor do I think my view is the "right" way or the answer. Again, sorry if I made anyone upset with my response.


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## WannaBeFarmR (Mar 30, 2013)

To be honest I'm not crazy about AI either. I live in an area where owning a buck would cause problems for me. So my only option would be to travel when my does were in heat and I can't drive...try convincing a friend to drive half way across the state with a love sick goat at a hats drop, let me know how that goes, lol. Because no one has quality ND bucks around here and the only ND bucks I have located have unknown health or have been tested but the owner doesn't ask if the does being bred are clean or tested. Given the above situations AI seemed like something that might be a solution since I would only have to buy the reasonable equipment, if I had to buy the tank and maintain it I would not even be considering it. Natural breeding would be much easier but life is rarely easy it seems. I'm not even sure I will breed my does, I was just trying to learn a little about something that could be a possibility. Thanks everyone who offered info and input, I appreciate it.


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## pitchfork (Mar 31, 2013)

Sylverfly I think it would be a great idea even if you own only a couple of does. I wish I knew of a vet or AI tech in the Tulsa area that did a lot of goat AI,  because I would use AI. To me it just makes sense. I don't want to own a buck and I don't like the idea of taking a doe to another farm, or bringing a buck home to my place. Even if it is expensive, I think it would be easier to sell kids from a nationally recognized buck than not, and you could retain does that would improve your herd etc. You get all of the benefit of what others have done to improve the breed and that may cost a little, but it sure works in cattle and horses. I have a gelding now from a world champion stud and it was worth the cost of the shipped semen and vet calls etc. 
Just my opinion.


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## that's*satyrical (Mar 31, 2013)

I've seen people selling semen straws for nigerians they are usually 20-25 bucks a straw unless the buck is incredibly awesome they might be more.  Of course obviously it is always from really nice bucks.  You need a tank to even transport it though so start up cost would be pretty high.  If you don't have many goats or know someone who owns a tank it wouldn't be a feasible option for a small herd.


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## babsbag (Mar 31, 2013)

The thing is it may take 7 or 8 straws to get your doe to settle. I wish it were only one. In the long run it is probably cheaper to do AI, but when you consider all the equipment it takes and the skills it might not be practical unless you are looking for a specific genetics.


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## that's*satyrical (Mar 31, 2013)

Renegade said:
			
		

> I have been doing AI for a few years but around here it's mostly Boer goats. If someone wanted me to do a ND I wouldn't hesitate to do it. We have 2 different sized speculums. The smaller of them would easily fit in a ND.
> 
> Donna


Just curious with you being experienced what is the average number of straws you need before you get a doe to settle?


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 1, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> The thing is it may take 7 or 8 straws to get your doe to settle. I wish it were only one. In the long run it is probably cheaper to do AI, but when you consider all the equipment it takes and the skills it might not be practical unless you are looking for a specific genetics.


7 or 8 straws?  Wow.  Doesn't seem like it would be practical at all, unless like you said you were looking specific genetics.


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## Renegade (Apr 1, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> The thing is it may take 7 or 8 straws to get your doe to settle. I wish it were only one. In the long run it is probably cheaper to do AI, but when you consider all the equipment it takes and the skills it might not be practical unless you are looking for a specific genetics.


This is totally untrue. It makes me mad when people that don't know anything about a subject make these kinds of statements. It would take a really bad tech for the above to happen.






			
				that's*satyrical said:
			
		

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We have a little over a 70% pregnancy rate with one straw. We sometimes have to do a doe a second time. The only time you would use more then one straw is when you super ovulate a doe to flush embryos. You would then need to use 3 straws over a certain time period in order to fertilize a large number of eggs.

Donna


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## michickenwrangler (Apr 1, 2013)

The 4-H leader said that timing is critical with AI and said that he's done the does at 3am before. He has a vasectomy buck to help detect the onset of estrus. He's also retired and can spend all day watching goats if needed.


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## kstaven (Apr 1, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

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7 or 8 straws? I would be throwing the A.I. tech off the property. One straw and over 80% conception is more like it.


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 1, 2013)

kstaven said:
			
		

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Yeah, I'm glad to hear that.  Like I said, if it took 7 or 8 straws...... don't see the point.


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## Renegade (Apr 1, 2013)

kstaven said:
			
		

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80% or higher is normal in cows but not in goats. Totally different technique and conception rates are a little lower.

Donna


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## babsbag (Apr 1, 2013)

Renegade said:
			
		

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All I know is what I have been told by the lady that teaches the class and my vet and the 4 friends that do it. I have no actual experience in it myself but I was looking into it for a Togg doe last year and everyone I talked to with experience said to figure on 7-8 straws so . I decided to just breed her to an Alpine buck that I own and forget about AI. Was going to cost too much IMO. If it is only going to take one straw then I maybe I should have tried it. 7-8 does seem like quite a few.


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## Renegade (Apr 2, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> All I know is what I have been told by the lady that teaches the class and my vet and the 4 friends that do it.


If they all told you that then they all should consider taking an A.I. class for goats. Either they have poor technique or they're not handling the straws properly.
Goats are much more difficult then cows because the technique is completely different.

Donna


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## kstaven (Apr 6, 2013)

Renegade said:
			
		

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We must have some exceptional A.I. techs up here then.


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 6, 2013)

kstaven said:
			
		

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So, when you do AI, you have to get someone, an AI Tech to do it for you?  My wife used to AI all of her daddy's beef cows, she worked on a university dairy and did those and she worked at the AI unit of a commercial hog farm and a university swine unit and did those as well.  But, you guys do AI and have to get someone to do it for you?  How much do you have to pay them.  Can you not do goats yourself because it's more difficult or complicated?  I'm confused.


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## Renegade (Apr 7, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

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I do my own AI. Went to 2 different classes years ago. I felt learning from different people would help me decide what technique worked best for me.
The technique for goats is totally different then cattle and hogs. I've found people with no experience learned how to do goats much faster then people that learned AI on cattle. With cattle everything is by feel. You reach in the rectum hold the cervix and with the other hand insert the gun and straw. With goats everything is visual. You have to be able to work in a 1" speculum. 

Donna


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