# Disbudding help (warning pic)



## Bri (Jul 25, 2016)

We are first time solo disbudding. Our doe gave us a cute little buck, which we knew would be harder. He was born July second and disbudded at 4 days old. He started to seem to regrow horns so we attempted to reburn last night. One horn was already much larger and we need guidance. We burned and the hard horn came off revealing a bloody stump! Should we have kept burning until flat? We had copper, but the first time we got the bud out and the area was flat. These pictures are this morning and we applied scarlet oil last night


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## babsbag (Jul 25, 2016)

I am not a pro at doing my own, but I have seen many done. I have also taken many to the vet to have them redone at his age because I didn't kill the horn bud. The base of the horns look really big, like you didn't burn hard enough, wide enough, or deep enough. In my experience those do not look like any my friends have done for me, they look like my burning jobs which always result in horns. 

I would find an experienced person to look at them or take him to a vet now, while he is still young, and have them removed.


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## Latestarter (Jul 25, 2016)

Greetings and welcome to BYH @Bri  Sorry you're having burn issues with your little guy. Yeah, I'd have to agree... at this point it's far better to have an expert/pro take over. You've already been at it twice... Hope you'll give us an update when it's all said and done. Mean time, browse around  and hope to "see you" in the threads.


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## Fullhousefarm (Jul 25, 2016)

I've seen three that have gown these bumps. All disbudded by someone else with lots of experience and the 30+ other goats done that year were normal (two were twin does). The first ones I had the original disbudder re-do, but I watched. I still own one of those goats, and at 6 months she looks great with no bumps. The other just had one bud like this and I re-did it for someone else. The whole bud came off in my disbudder.

I would also burn the red/oozy looking part I see you your photo. Nothing should be bleeding or oozy right after disbudding.

I second the idea to get someone with more experience to give you guidance. Watch and learn so you can handle it next time.


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## babsbag (Jul 25, 2016)

Personally, I don't think *I* will ever get it right. Someone told me I need to be mean and nasty to do a good job. Funny...but not.


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## MrsKuhn (Aug 2, 2016)

hope that you got your problem solved


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 2, 2016)

This is why our replacement buck is polled  i cant stand burning horns. Eventually our entire herd will be polled.


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## babsbag (Aug 2, 2016)

8 years ago I started out with one polled  doe and now have 6. The only Alpine does I kept this year are polled ones. I would love to find a good polled Alpine buck but they seem hard to come by.


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## Latestarter (Aug 2, 2016)

Just curious, cause I don't have the brain power to digest genetics, but I read, or somehow came to "understand" that if you breed polled to polled or have a double polled genome, you have a dead fetus, or bad results in some other wicked way... Am I out to lunch on this? or does someone know exactly how this works? I ask because I really would like a polled herd as well... save a lot of trouble and anguish down the road.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 2, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Just curious, cause I don't have the brain power to digest genetics, but I read, or somehow came to "understand" that if you breed polled to polled or have a double polled genome, you have a dead fetus, or bad results in some other wicked way... Am I out to lunch on this? or does someone know exactly how this works? I ask because I really would like a polled herd as well... save a lot of trouble and anguish down the road.



There was a study done which is now largely discredited that "proved" breeding polled to polled produces a higher rate of herm offspring. Yes very true the study did but the animals used in the study were the same buck line so it is now believed that that line had a higher rate of herm offspring then typical. Many people have been breeding polled to polled for generations and have not found a higher rate of herm in fact some have never seen one in their herd yet.

As a precaution many people breed a homozygous polled buck to hetrozygous polled does to make 100% polled kids but 50% kids would be hetrozygous and if bred to a hetrozygous or a horned goat later on they would make horned kids(25%horned and 50% horned respectively).

Our polled buck is the result of a polled buck and a horned doe so he is hetrozygous. We will be breeding him to our non-related doe who has 12 polled goats in her pedigree but is horned herself then breeding the first daughter that shows polled back to our polled buck and hope for a homozygous son....least thats the plan for now until we acquire another polled buck or fill our herd with homozygus does lol


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 2, 2016)

So there IS such thing as a homozygous polled doe who is not a hermaphrodite?


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## babsbag (Aug 2, 2016)

How would know if she were homozygous other than breeding her and tracking her offspring?


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 2, 2016)

I don't know.
 In Goat Medicine and a couple other places I have seen, they claim there is no such thing as a homozygous polled true female. 
I sure hope there is.


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## babsbag (Aug 2, 2016)

I see more and more breeders breeding polled to polled but I don't know if they are homozygous offspring or not but surely some of them must be. If I ever find a nice polled registered Alpine buck I would buy him in a second as I have a lot of polled does and just increasing the odds of not having to disbudd would be nice.


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 2, 2016)

Oh, I forgot that I read in Goat Medicine that their theory (I think) was that some breeds carry the hermaphrodite gene with the polled gene and others do not. Now I might be remembering totally wrong.


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## Latestarter (Aug 2, 2016)

Wow... maybe I should have started a new thread?


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## babsbag (Aug 2, 2016)

How old is that book...


Green Acres Farm said:


> Goat Medicine


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## babsbag (Aug 2, 2016)

http://www.arkansasdairygoats.com/polledgoats.htm


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 2, 2016)

babsbag said:


> How old is that book...


It is the new version. Please tell me it is accurate after the price I paid!!!!


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 2, 2016)

babsbag said:


> http://www.arkansasdairygoats.com/polledgoats.htm



Thanks! Maybe I will breed my polled buck and polled doe together...


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 3, 2016)

babsbag said:


> http://www.arkansasdairygoats.com/polledgoats.htm



Hmmmmm.....
I'm not really sure I place a lot of stock in that article.
Polled bucks don't smell during the rut??
Mine smell worse.


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 3, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> Hmmmmm.....
> I'm not really sure I place a lot of stock in that article.
> Polled bucks don't smell during the rut??
> Mine smell worse.



That IS true...


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 3, 2016)

This is from Goat Medicine:

"...Within the breeds originating in western Europe (such as Saanen, Alpine, and Toggenburg), there is a well known and much studied association between the natural absence of horns and the intersex condition. The condition also occurs on the Damascus or Shami goat. It is likely that Nubian and Angora goats have a different inheritance of horns. The polled intersex condition is not reported in these breeds, although freemartin's may occur..."


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 3, 2016)

I made a new thread for this.


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## Carmen8k9 (Aug 3, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> I made a new thread for this.


How do I find the new thread? First day on this site.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 3, 2016)

@Carmen8k9 
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/hermaphrodites-and-polled-goats.34222/#post-439875


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## Latestarter (Aug 3, 2016)

Greetings @Carmen8k9 and welcome to BYH! There's a lot of great info and experiences shared in the various threads. Might take a while to get completely comfortable but browse around   and make yourself at home!  Maybe take a few minutes and create a new thread in the introductions section so everyone can say Hi? Tell us a little about yourself. Oh, and if you have animal pictures to share, we all LOVE pictures!  Glad you joined us.


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