# How much grain is too much?



## Fernwood Hollow (Sep 22, 2012)

Hi.  I have 4 Nigerian Dwarf doelings about 3 months old.  They have free choice hay, minerals and baking soda.  I am feeding them grain once a day, in the afternoon, (leave for work at 4:30am and everyone is still sleeping then).  Feeding Dumor goat pellets with some BOSS mixed in.  How many cups per goat should they be getting?  They have already developed nice round bellies in the three weeks I have had them.
Thanks.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 22, 2012)

the normal amount of grain for a goat on an all grain ration is 3.5 to 4% of their body weight a  day in grain. 

so a 50 lb goat would get between 1.75 and 2 lbs of grain a day. Our grain is about 3 measuring cups per lb, so for us a 50 ls goat would get about 6 cups of grain a day. 


That would be your maxiimum numbers, and since you aren't probably worried about feeding out for maximum growth, just wanting nice healthy kids, you would probably want to shoot for less than that.


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## pdpo222 (Sep 22, 2012)

My goats are all adults and get no grain right now.  I will start graining them when it is breeding time which will be in December for me.  They will continue with the grain until the kids are weaned.  I do grain during winter time, but summer they are on pasture and on second cutting hay so I don't grain then.  My worries that they are in breeding condition when it's time and are getting enough to carry their kids and feed them.  After that they go back to hay or pasture.  When I do grain I grain morning and night, but I can do that since I am home then.  Just how I do it with mine works for me, they are fat and sassy, sometimes more sassy then I would like.


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## CochinBrahmaLover=) (Sep 22, 2012)

I have 2 ND's and they get half a cup a day. Only reason is its getting colder here so I need their bellies full and warm. 

They get half a cup in the morning, since I'm feeding GRAIN not FEED, they have to share the half a cup. If they had feed, I'd give them more. I just think of grain as candy and feed as veggies for some reason  For 4 NDs I'd personally give them 4 cups a day, half a cup each morning and half at night. (well half per goat)


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## Nathan Sampson (Sep 22, 2012)

I know most bags of feed have feeding directions on the tag. I would highly recommend following these directions.


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## Catahoula (Sep 22, 2012)

Fernwood Hollow said:
			
		

> Hi.  I have 4 Nigerian Dwarf doelings about 3 months old.  They have free choice hay, minerals and baking soda.  I am feeding them grain once a day, in the afternoon, (leave for work at 4:30am and everyone is still sleeping then).  Feeding Dumor goat pellets with some BOSS mixed in.  How many cups per goat should they be getting?  They have already developed nice round bellies in the three weeks I have had them.
> Thanks.


I would keep them on your pellet feeds since they are growing kids. I would keep the same amount unless they are getting too fat or too thin. If they are doing well, why change it? They are too young to be bred anyway so that wouldn't be the reason to feed them more. If they start to get fat, then I'd cut down on the amount.


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## Fernwood Hollow (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks for the advice.  They are getting about a cup each a day.  I am going to try and weigh them and then read the bag better.  They do have nice little plump bellys!


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## Chris (Sep 23, 2012)

The amount on the bag is ONLY a recommended guide line.
Some goats need more and some goats need less than the recommended guide line, a lot will depends on pasture, hay, environment, health, genetics and breed of goat.

Chris


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## Catahoula (Sep 23, 2012)

Chris said:
			
		

> The amount on the bag is ONLY a recommended guide line.
> Some goats need more and some goats need less than the recommended guide line, a lot will depends on pasture, hay, environment, health, genetics and breed of goat.
> 
> Chris


X2. Just because you have your goat's weighs doesn't mean you should feed according to the label...because you could have a fat goat to begin with (not to say your goat is fat...). Like you said, you think your goats are quite round...so try cutting back and see if they slim down.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 23, 2012)

I am very against 'grain' but do like feed. I would never feed straight grain to any goat and I agree about the label. Don't feed by a label, every goat is different and should be fed how they need to be fed. You need to know your goat well. Some of mine are fast growers and some slower, some burn food faster and some slower. Every goat is different and needs to be treated that way. 

This is how I feedmine right now.


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## Goatherd (Sep 23, 2012)

> I am very against 'grain' but do like feed.


I know feed to be nothing more than processed grains with supplementary ingredients to create a specifically designed food.  Without grain, there would be no feed.  The words are semantically interchangeable.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 23, 2012)

Goatherd said:
			
		

> > I am very against 'grain' but do like feed.
> 
> 
> I know feed to be nothing more than processed grains with supplementary ingredients to create a specifically designed food.  Without grain, there would be no feed.  The words are semantically interchangeable.


Kind of. Grain is in the food but they have all kinds of other stuff in there that they need with some grain. I am against straight grain.

Straight grain has almost no benefit. All it really is is filler and that is not good for them. Straight grain can be dangerous too, where as feed really isn't.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 24, 2012)

It really depends on your goats.

I don't like giving a lot of feed with the hay.  Call me crazy, but I think it might contribute to overeating disease.  When I do feed "grain," I feed a balanced sweet feed made for stock.  I will feed that to my chickens, geese, and ducks as well so that if the goats get it, it won't be too dangerous.  It's a little low in protein for the birds, but I supplement.  Animals get organic fruit and vegetable scraps.  The inside birds also get leftovers.  The outside birds can catch bugs.

I will intentionally feed my lactating goat sweet feed twice a day while I milk her.  Jf she were to eat it all, she would get about 8 cups.  I suspect she gets around 4-6 cups of feed.  

If you think your goats are healthy, they probably are.  Diet-wise, my goats probably get more feed/grain because they eat some of the feed thrown for the birds.


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## Roll farms (Sep 24, 2012)

FWIW, goats ate 'grain' for a few thousand years after being domesticated until humans decided to create 'feed' for them w/ in the last hundred years or so.  
Grass seed heads are grain.  
Yes, they prefer and do better w/ browse, but grain is acceptable if you know what you're doing.

Dr. Frank Pinkerton (who knows more about goats / goat nutrition than anyone else I've ever learned from) suggests feeding whole corn to pg and lactating does to up their caloric intake if hay alone isn't enough in a particular person's situation (low quality hay or a poor-doing / underweight goat).

I feed our goats whole corn and BOSS in their 'feed' mix and have never had issues w/ it....but I don't overfeed them, and they can't escape and get into it.  We make any feed changes gradually, adding less corn in summer and more in winter. 

We feed grain, immediately followed by hay.  I would never feed grain w/out hay....I want the fiber right there in the rumen w/ the feed.  Feed / grain fermenting in there alone would worry me a lot more as far as bloat / digestive upsets.  If you're not giving grain at all, great...but mine will never be fed grain w/out also being fed hay at the same time.

I would never go by the feeding suggestions on the bag alone...the company is in business to sell feed....they'll suggest overfeeding so you buy more....and you end up w/ fat goats.

It's simple:  If my goats look skinny, I up the ration...if they look fat, I cut it back.  Some get NOTHING but hay.  Some HAVE to have their grain mix.  We have a mixed meat and dairy goat herd and my boers tend to look fat, our dairy goats tend to look 'good', w/ a few on the lean side.  When I can, I seperate boer from dairy and feed accordingly.   If needed, I pull any 'skinny' goats into the barn daily for their own extra rations....I stop once they look / feel good to me.


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## Goatherd (Sep 24, 2012)

> Call me crazy, but I think it might contribute to overeating disease.


I won't call you crazy, but maybe you're unaware that overeating disease is caused by two strains of bacteria and not what or how much a goat eats.
In my opinion, it's a poorly name illness and tends to cause confusion.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 24, 2012)

Fernwood Hollow said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice.  They are getting about a cup each a day.  I am going to try and weigh them and then read the bag better.  They do have nice little plump bellys!


I am going to try to redirect this towards the OP, If you all care to discuss grain vs. feed I would suggest starting another thread. 

to Fernwood:  becareful you don't confuse a "nice plump Belly" with being in good condition.  In ruminants, especially, a round belly can indicate a lake of protein in the diet. You goat should be evaluated on overall condition based on the amount of finish or thickness over the hips, back and rib cage.  Not saying your goats arn't in good condition, just commenting that round fat bellies in not the best discription of overall condition. It sounds to me like you are probably doing a good job feeding them. 
Normally, when they reach 7 to 8 months  of age, is when your does will slow down on frame growth and put weight on easier, so we normally feed our does twice a day pretty much all they will eat in grain/pelleted feed until they reach a junior stage and starts to get the extra finish on them, then we cut back to one feeding a day of about 1 lb(3 cups), by that point for us our goats are normally 90 to 100lbs, I realize you have a smaller breed. we are also pushign ours to be bred by 10 months of age, so growth rate is important for us.  
The amount you are feeding sounds like a good plan.  

I always mention weight, because what your 3 month old kid is eating now, may need to be increased when she is 5 months old to obtain the same growth rate, since she will be heavier in a couple months. Then as they get older those demands willl drop.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 24, 2012)

Goatherd said:
			
		

> > Call me crazy, but I think it might contribute to overeating disease.
> 
> 
> I won't call you crazy, but maybe you're unaware that overeating disease is caused by two strains of bacteria and not what or how much a goat eats.
> In my opinion, it's a poorly name illness and tends to cause confusion.


No, I am quite aware that it is caused by clostridium perfringens C/D.

I said _contribute_, not cause.


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 24, 2012)

The idea that straight grain has no benefit is not true. Straight grain (depending on the grain) has plenty of nutrition, and that's why feed is made from it.  Corn, for example, is high in energy and is a great supplement if you animals need more than what they're getting from pasture or hay.  Really, all pelleted or bagged feed is is grain mixed with vitamins and minerals. It may change shape and be rolled, crimped, steamed, pelleted, etc, but it is grain.  And whole grains AND pre-mixed feed are equally as dangerous. Both can cause issues like bloat and acidosis.  Right now I'm feeding a mix of different whole grains and a mineral mix.

Nobody is going to be able to answer the "how much is too much" question, because it's all dependent on each situation.  What's good for my goats may not be good for someone else's.  Generally, the majority of a ruminants' diet should come from forage.  If your goats are in good condition, then their diet is good. If they're too thin, improve the quality of their feed and you may need to add in "grain" (the term commonly used to refer to any concentrated feed) or up the quality of the forage available.  If the goats are too fat, then cut out all grain, and perhaps limit the quality or availability of the forage.


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## Fernwood Hollow (Sep 24, 2012)

Ok, to clarify...  Two girls came from a farm where they were dam raised and the herd only got browse and hay, no grain.  The other two sisters were bottle fed and VERY human spoiled, no grain either. Both breeders said that they should be started on grain.  I brought them home a week apart.  They have free choice hay 24/7, browse loose in the yard 2-5 hours a day, and Dumor goat pellets with BOSS mixed in once a day.  They share about three cups of grain and one cup of BOSS.  Their bellies have grown considerable in the couple of weeks they have been here.  I have to contribute it to the grain, since they had not had it before.  Being a horse person, I know how dangerous overfeeding can be.  But they seem "starving" when I bring them their grain.  Although horses will do the same.  I will take some pictures and post them.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 25, 2012)

Fernwood Hollow said:
			
		

> Ok, to clarify...  Two girls came from a farm where they were dam raised and the herd only got browse and hay, no grain.  The other two sisters were bottle fed and VERY human spoiled, no grain either. Both breeders said that they should be started on grain.  I brought them home a week apart.  They have free choice hay 24/7, browse loose in the yard 2-5 hours a day, and Dumor goat pellets with BOSS mixed in once a day.  They share about three cups of grain and one cup of BOSS.  Their bellies have grown considerable in the couple of weeks they have been here.  I have to contribute it to the grain, since they had not had it before.  Being a horse person, I know how dangerous overfeeding can be.  But they seem "starving" when I bring them their grain.  Although horses will do the same.  I will take some pictures and post them.


Welcome to goats.    All my critters seem starving when I bring them hay and grain/feed.  Just the nature of the beast, so to speak.  My goats will act like they never got a bit of food in their lives when I have grain/feed.  It's like candy to them.


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 25, 2012)

Fernwood Hollow said:
			
		

> Ok, to clarify...  Two girls came from a farm where they were dam raised and the herd only got browse and hay, no grain.  The other two sisters were bottle fed and VERY human spoiled, no grain either. Both breeders said that they should be started on grain.  I brought them home a week apart.  They have free choice hay 24/7, browse loose in the yard 2-5 hours a day, and Dumor goat pellets with BOSS mixed in once a day.  They share about three cups of grain and one cup of BOSS.  Their bellies have grown considerable in the couple of weeks they have been here.  I have to contribute it to the grain, since they had not had it before.  Being a horse person, I know how dangerous overfeeding can be.  But they seem "starving" when I bring them their grain.  Although horses will do the same.  I will take some pictures and post them.


Usually grain won't make their bellies bigger (unless they're bloated from too much grain), it will increase body condition all over. The large bellies could be due to a few things, like worms or just large, well developed rumens from digesting all the browse and hay.  The amount of grain you are feeding doesn't sound like enough to make them bloat to me.  You may want to get a fecal done to see what their parasite load is.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 25, 2012)

Fernwood Hollow said:
			
		

> Ok, to clarify...  Two girls came from a farm where they were dam raised and the herd only got browse and hay, no grain.  The other two sisters were bottle fed and VERY human spoiled, no grain either. Both breeders said that they should be started on grain.  I brought them home a week apart.  They have free choice hay 24/7, browse loose in the yard 2-5 hours a day, and Dumor goat pellets with BOSS mixed in once a day.  They share about three cups of grain and one cup of BOSS.  Their bellies have grown considerable in the couple of weeks they have been here.  I have to contribute it to the grain, since they had not had it before.  Being a horse person, I know how dangerous overfeeding can be.  But they seem "starving" when I bring them their grain.  Although horses will do the same.  I will take some pictures and post them.


Being that they are young and growing, you really don't need to worry bout over feeding them a good balanced goat grain/pellet.   Your major concerns would be males should be closely monitored, especially wethers, since they can get Urinary calculi, and you don't want to make any major feed changes too quickly.  Your 3 month old growing doelings really could have all the goat grain they want, if you gradually increased it to that point. With that said, i don't think it is really needed in your case.


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