# Palpating Results: Update #16



## tortoise (Dec 26, 2010)

My neighbor's kid is getting into 4-H rabbit and will be showing my rabbits (or raising a spring baby to show).  I have been having her palpate does so she knows what non-pregnant does feel like.  And she's like... this one feels wierd.  So I felt the same spot and gosh, I think she's pregnant!

I am tickled pink, it is a breeding that would make some serious improvement in my herd.

Send some baby dust.


----------



## txcarl1258 (Dec 27, 2010)

dust sent!  

I should have my second litter on Wed so I am sending you good vibes.


----------



## CrimsonRose (Dec 28, 2010)

Awesome! I never could palpate I can typically feel the babies like the day before they are due...  but sending baby vibes your way!


----------



## tortoise (Dec 28, 2010)

I felt 2 "egg yolk in a ziploc bag" that were bigger and softer than poops, in a line, and in the right place for a uterus.  I didn't try to feel the other horn of the uterus.  This rabbit WILL NOT tolerate a buck near her, that's usually a good sign of a doe being bred.


----------



## tortoise (Jan 15, 2011)

I palpated her again last night because the first possible date she could kindle would be Monday.  (She was with the buck for 8 days).

I really think she is pregnant.  I thought I felt 2.  I'll put a nest box in today.

I hope she knows what to do.  I really want to grow up some rabbits from this breeding and get wool weights off of them.  I think these could be some seriously nice rabbits!


----------



## tortoise (Jan 19, 2011)

She is pulling wool this morning but hasn't made a nest yet.


----------



## DianeS (Jan 19, 2011)

tortoise said:
			
		

> She is pulling wool this morning but hasn't made a nest yet.


Exciting!


----------



## tortoise (Jan 19, 2011)

Nesting.  I'll be out there again late morning.


----------



## MiniRexGirl (Jan 19, 2011)

tortoise said:
			
		

> Nesting.  I'll be out there again late morning.


EXCITING!


----------



## therealsilkiechick (Jan 20, 2011)

that is awesome can't wait to see pics!!


----------



## tortoise (Jan 20, 2011)

She had a litter of 6 overnight and they all died.  Actually, one was still alive but in the time it took to walk 200 ft to the house, it died.  Boo.

BUT, GOOD NEWS!  My black broken doe is NOT ENEN, she is ENen!  

2 black broken, both MUCH less than 10% color.  (I would have culled if not already dead.)

1 I-have-no-idea --- 

1 REW

and the last 2 I  *think* were chins (chinchilla).  I am not aware of another color that has a white belly.  There was a black "chin" and a blue "chin."

What do you guys think for color?

WARNING - DEAD BABY PHOTOS


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
REW on far left, I don't know second-to-left, 2 brokens in the middle, 2 chins(?) on the right.





PauletteXPure Litter #1 Colors by tortoise11, on Flickr



PauletteXPure Litter #1 Colors by tortoise11, on Flickr


----------



## Bunnylady (Jan 20, 2011)

If I were bothered by the sight of dead baby bunnies, I'd really be a head case by now. Aggravatin' though, isn't it? Sorry to hear that you lost the litter. If this were my doe, I'd rebreed her within the next 48 hours.

What color is the buck? Since all of the Agouti colors have white bellies, those two with white bellies could be Opal and Chestnut, rather than Squirrel and Chin. They seem the likelier colors, unless your doe is actually a self-colored Chin. 

I've noticed that a lot of the brokens in breeds that have only recently acquired broken tend to have little color on them. My Dwarfs are really bad about that, as are my Woolys. I haven't been all that keen on those two breeds in broken anyway, and it seems like I can't get a decent broken from them for the life of me! The Hollands, now, they almost always get it right - and now my Mini Rex are going in the other direction. My principle buck came from an all-solids breeding program, and his offspring have almost nothing more than white boots!


----------



## tortoise (Jan 20, 2011)

Doe has no chin, no agouti anywhere in  5 - 6 generations.

Buck is REW, unknown.  He must be carrying that, and without knowing his pedigree and not being able to see what the hair one those kits would be, it's impossible to know, right?

I've spent 3 hours on pedigrees and rabbit color genetics.  The guy I bought my doe from (I've gotten quite a few from him) doesn't put a whole a lot of information on the pedigree.  I have enough information to start putting genotype onto some of my pedigrees.  

I am starting to put photos on pedigrees.  I always liked that on dog pedigrees.  I am looking forward to someday when most or all of the rabbits in the pedigree are ones I've produced and have photos of all of them!


----------



## tortoise (Jan 20, 2011)

Doe:



Penelope's Paulette by Penelope's Rabbitry, on Flickr

Buck:



Penelope's Pure by Penelope's Rabbitry, on Flickr


----------



## Bunnylady (Jan 20, 2011)

Well, the buck`is obviously the source of the Agouti allele, since the doe is clearly a Self. I think we can pretty safely rule out the Tan allele, since there are no showable Tan varieties in the French Angora (at least, there weren't the last time I checked). Since REW is the most recessive allele in the C series, you know he has to be cc. The only allele he has to contribute to his offspring is the REW allele. Since you apparently got a couple  of REW's in this litter, the doe is carrying one REW allele (c), too. The only question is, what is her other allele in the C series? Clearly, it isn't Pointed White (ch) or Siamese (cchl). The only reasonable candidates are full color (C) and Chinchilla (cchd). How to tell the difference?

A lot of Chins have gray or marbled eyes. If a Black rabbit has gray eyes, it is most likely a Self Chin. The Chinchilla allele takes almost all of the yellow pigment out of the coat, and a little of the black as well. If you put a Black Otter (C_) next to a Black Silver Marten (cchd_), the Silver Marten will be noticeably a little less black. Where your doe has black, it looks pretty densely black. If there aren't any Agoutis (no Red, Orange, Fawn, Chin, Chestnut, Lynx, Opal, Steel, or Cream) behind her, it is a good bit less likely that she has a Chin allele (cchd), and more likely that it is a full color allele (C). Taking all the evidence that you have given, it looks most likely that she is a full-color (C). While I can't be 100% sure that the doe isn't a Chin, I would be very much surprised if you ever got any variety of Chin from this particular pairing.


----------



## tortoise (Feb 28, 2011)

I rebred her to a different buck.  A self colored red.  Agouti and chin in his pedigree. I can't recall his genotype now, but I have it on his pedigree.

I palpated and easily felt one, I didn't bother to try to count babies I just wanted to know whether or not she needed a nest box.  Her first possible due date is Saturday.

I believe her last litter died from cold.  So I'll kitnap this litter.  I'll have to check on her a little more often than I usually would.


----------

