# Help Guessing Rabbits' Breeds



## rescueblonde (Nov 18, 2016)

I have a few bunnies that were rescues. I like to keep good records of my animals which includes breed(s), weight, etc. I just can't figure out what breeds these ones are. They're all very likely mixes but if I could get an idea of breed then that'd be very helpful.

http://imgur.com/a/0c6J7


Esther is 7.7 pounds.
Ivy is 4.2 pounds.
Mitchell is 4.8 pounds.
Ellis is 5 pounds.


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## TAH (Nov 18, 2016)

Mitchell: black satin (For his weight I would not say full grown).





Esther: Satin 




Ellis: harlequin




Ivy: English spot mix Possibly


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## rescueblonde (Nov 18, 2016)

TAH said:


> Mitchell: black satin (For his weight I would not say full grown).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you! I guessed English Spot mix for Ivy too.  Mitchell should be fully grown. I've had him for almost a year now and he seemed to be full grown when I got him.


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## TAH (Nov 18, 2016)

rescueblonde said:


> Thank you! I guessed English Spot mix for Ivy too.  Mitchell should be fully grown. I've had him for almost a year now and he seemed to be full grown when I got him.


Okay, Black satins are normally bigger, I guess he is on the small size.


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## Bunnylady (Nov 18, 2016)

I don't mean to be disagreeable, but I can't agree with any of those guesses.

Mitchell and Esther appear to have Rex coats, so they can't be Satins. Mitchell is small enough to be a purebred Mini Rex. Esther is a bit big for even a false dwarf Mini Rex, and a bit smallish for a Standard Rex, but she might be a cross between the two.

Ellis's_ color _is harlequin, but take it from someone who has bred them for over 20 years, no way, no how is his _breed_ Harlequin. His type suggests a lot of Netherland Dwarf in his background, and I know a lot of people like to breed harlequin patterned Lionheads (which have a lot of Dwarf in them). I'd even say that he might be the maneless offspring of at least one single-maned Lionhead parent.

And I'm afraid y'all have hit one of my hot buttons with that "English Spot" guess - sometimes it seems like every time someone sees a broken patterned rabbit, they think it's an English Spot, and most aren't even remotely similar. Nothing about Ivy says "English Spot" to me; even her pattern is a perfectly ordinary spotted broken that you could see in almost any breed that can come in the broken pattern. Her body type is very similar to a Mini Rex, her spotting pattern is something I've seen a lot in the Mini Rex, particularly the Tricolors; the only thing about her that is really wrong is her coat. I could probably produce something almost identical to her by crossing a Mini Rex with a Polish or some other small, normal coated breed.


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## TAH (Nov 18, 2016)

Bunnylady said:


> Ellis's_ color _is harlequin, but take it from someone who has bred them for over 20 years, no way, no how is his _breed_ Harlequin. His type suggests a lot of Netherland Dwarf in his background, and I know a lot of people like to breed harlequin patterned Lionheads (which have a lot of Dwarf in them). I'd even say that he might be the maneless offspring of at least one single-maned Lionhead parent.


We had 2 harlequins that looked almost the same to ellies color.


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## Bunnylady (Nov 18, 2016)

TAH said:


> We had 2 harlequins that looked almost the same to ellies color.



Some of my very first Mini Rex were the remains of somebody's tricolor breeding program. Tricolor, of course, is a combination of broken and harlequin; any breed that has tri in its repertoire (like the lop breeds) will produce harlequins, too. tri's are showable in the MR, harlequins aren't. I cannot count how many harlequin colored Mini Rex I have had over the years. At one time, the most complete Harlequin pattern in my rabbitry wasn't on a Harlequin, it was on a Mini Rex!

But here's an example of what I  was talking about - a harlequin patterned Lionhead:


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## DutchBunny03 (Nov 18, 2016)

I'm going to agree with @Bunnylady . Mitchell and Esther are definately Rex. Rex come in almost every color, so their colors overlap with the colors that Satins are. Ivy looks a lot like my Cocoa, who is a broken-patterned New Zealand, so tha may be what Ivy is. Ellis may be a badly-marked magpie harlequin cross. Her ears are the wrong shape to be dwarf, though. Dwarfs have very tiny ears, but Ellis's ears look a bit long.


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## Bunnylady (Nov 18, 2016)

DutchBunny03 said:


> Ivy looks a lot like my Cocoa, who is a broken-patterned New Zealand, so tha may be what Ivy is.



Ivy weighs just over 4 pounds, and her head and ears are not those of a baby - do you really think that's an NZ?



DutchBunny03 said:


> Ellis may be a badly-marked magpie harlequin cross. Her ears are the wrong shape to be dwarf, though. Dwarfs have very tiny ears, but Ellis's ears look a bit long.



Magpies have white as a background color; Ellis's color is clearly Japanese. Harlequins have the typical commercial-type long, thin faces, long bodies, and proportionately long ears carried in a broad V-shape (on reflection, I've been breeding Harlies since the late 1980's; where did the time go?!). The only thing that Ellis has in common with the Harlequin is his color:




But other than being a bit on the large size, he isn't far off type for a Netherland Dwarf:


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## DutchBunny03 (Nov 19, 2016)

Ivy definately looks young. Older rabbits have a heavier bone structure and build. She could be a cross with a smaller breed, such as Rhilander. This is a purebred Rhilander:





But i doubt she is. Rhilanders have a characteristic "butterfly" markings on their face, which Ivy does not have. 
This is a broken-patterned NZ:





The markings on Ivy's face resemble a NZ more than a Rhilander, but her body markings resemble a Rhilander.
Japanese harlequins tend to have more drastic boundaries between colors(with the exception of the chocolate Japanese, which Ellis clearly is not
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).


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## Bunnylady (Nov 19, 2016)

Rhinelanders are the same size as a Harlequin, 7 to 10 lbs, but with full arch type like a English Spot so they seem even bigger.

There is nothing "drastic" about the boundaries of the patterns on any color in the Harlequin breed. The problem is a thing called "brindling," which means a mixing of whichever two colors of hairs that particular harlequin has. Some brindle a lot, some only a little, some brindle more in some areas than others. The ideal animal has no brindling at all, but THAT NEVER HAPPENS!!!! Magpies, with their white background color, tend to show the difference more easily than the Japanese, so they win things like BOB more often. Patterns can be all over the place; you can breed two animals with most of the pattern and wind up with babies that are pretty, but have no distinguishable pattern at all.

Rhinelanders are like any other broken patterned breed; they have good patterns and bad patterns and animals with no pattern at all.

This is an adult male Mini Rex:






Breeds with fine boned type do not get heavy boned at any age.


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## rescueblonde (Nov 23, 2016)

Bunnylady said:


> I don't mean to be disagreeable, but I can't agree with any of those guesses.
> 
> Mitchell and Esther appear to have Rex coats, so they can't be Satins. Mitchell is small enough to be a purebred Mini Rex. Esther is a bit big for even a false dwarf Mini Rex, and a bit smallish for a Standard Rex, but she might be a cross between the two.
> 
> ...



That was really informative! Thank you! All of my animals become part of a petting zoo for our tree farm during Christmas season and I have signs for every animal telling what they are and their rescue story. I basically just needed a guess on their breed, also for my records. After more research, I figured Mini Rex mix was a safe guess for all of them. I'm not very familiar with rabbit breeds as most of mine are rescues so I don't know anything about their parentage.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 23, 2016)

Any thoughts on mitchell being a Silver Marten..cross perhaps?

Coat looks right, color pattern appears correct but the ears look off to short and curved.

i just noticed he has tan too.
Black otter mini rex?


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## DutchBunny03 (Nov 27, 2016)

The animals may not become heavier boned, but they do gain weight and mass. We see this is all animals. The young appear to be lighter built than the adults. That is why it can be hard to tell what breed an animals is if the animal is on the younger side. 
There is a more "drastic" boundary between colors on the Japanese harlequin than there is on a Magpie harlequin. 





This is a lilac Japanese harlequin(picture from the American Harlequin Rabbit Club).





This is a lilac Magpie harlequin(picture from the American Harlequin Rabbit Club).
Notice that the colors on the Magpie is more blended than the colors on the Japanese.


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## Bunnylady (Nov 27, 2016)

DutchBunny03 said:


> The animals may not become heavier boned, but they do gain weight and mass. We see this is all animals. The young appear to be lighter built than the adults. That is why it can be hard to tell what breed an animals is if the animal is on the younger side.
> There is a more "drastic" boundary between colors on the Japanese harlequin than there is on a Magpie harlequin.
> 
> 
> ...



*sigh* To repeat: the "blending" has* NOTHING* to do with the colors of the rabbit, it has to do with the amount of_* BRINDLING*_ that that particular Harlequin does. You look at a few pictures of a few rabbits, and you think you know something about the breed? I started breeding Harlequins before you were even born. I have talked Harlequin and bought Harlequins from some of the founders of the Harlequin club - shoot, I have even beaten a few of their rabbits! I think perhaps I just might know more about them than you do - have you even seen one in person? If you had ever watched Harlequins judged, and had actually seen what goes on the table, you'd know that your argument hasn't a leg to stand on.


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## DutchBunny03 (Nov 27, 2016)

How do you know you have bred harlequins before i was born? You can make absolutely no assumptions on that. I do not own harlequins, but considered it, and did YEARS of research on them, and still do. If space someday allows, i will get some. I have seen quite a few very excellent, purebred, pedigreed, registered harlequins, and have a good idea of what they should look like. Most of the Japanese harlequins had more of a drastic boundary between the colors than the Magpie harlequins. Not all, but most.


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## Kaye (Nov 27, 2016)

DutchBunny03 said:


> The animals may not become heavier boned, but they do gain weight and mass. We see this is all animals. The young appear to be lighter built than the adults. That is why it can be hard to tell what breed an animals is if the animal is on the younger side.
> There is a more "drastic" boundary between colors on the Japanese harlequin than there is on a Magpie harlequin.
> 
> 
> ...


I do not claim to be anything even remotely close to a rabbit expert. Not a clue to how colors are supposed to be from breed to breed. BUT I have been breeding/rescuing/adopting/ and fostering pit bulls. The 'blending' is definitely brindle. Google brindle pits. Some of them look to almost have 'tiger stripes', while some you can hardly even tell because it does BLEND IN with the base color. But regardless of brindle variety, 'tiger stripe' pit bull isn't a breed. It's only a color. Much the same as red/blue nose pits. Same breed (American Pit Bull Terrier), but different variations on color. 
A lot of people think they're actually different breeds. 
This is only an example for learning purposes


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## DutchBunny03 (Nov 27, 2016)

I see your point. But different color patterns are more common in different breeds. For example, carrying on the dog example, white with black spots isnt a breed, but Dalmation is. But we often associate dogs with that pattern with Dalmations.


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## Bruce (Nov 27, 2016)

I don't know beans about bunnies but I think Mitchell is a very pretty rabbit


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 28, 2016)

Bruce said:


> I don't know beans about bunnies but I think Mitchell is a very pretty rabbit


I agree!!


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