# How many pounds of hay?



## ChickenPotPie (Jul 13, 2011)

When my son first bought his Toggenburg dairy goats, he kept them at the 4H ranch his club had.  Only two months later, we had to move and we have not been able to join 4H again so we don't have a mentor.  There are no dairy goat projects in our new county, anyway, but I've learned some good stuff here so I'm coming to you all again in hopes you can answer my question.  

Well, I remember that the kids at the ranch were told that flakes from one bales might vary from one to the next so, they should weigh the hay so they'd know exactly how much alfalfa to give each goat per day so as to not under or over feed them.  I forget what that weight per diary goat should be so I'm afraid we might not be giving enough to to eat.

I thought it might be 7 pounds per goat.  Is that right?  Or was it 5 lbs/goat?  Does anyone know what the recommended weight of alfalfa per goat we should feed?


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## freemotion (Jul 13, 2011)

Most of us feed hay free choice, 24/7.  The quality varies from batch to batch, too, so sometimes there will be more waste, sometimes less.


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## Our7Wonders (Jul 13, 2011)

I really don't know a set amount.  I feed hay free choice - so they take what they need and when the hay feeder is empty I put in another slice.  I think most people here feed free choice as well but maybe you'll get some to chime in otherwise.


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## ChickenPotPie (Jul 14, 2011)

You're not worried about them over eating and developing too much internal fat that would hinder their fertility or good health?  Or just getting too much plain 'ol _external_ fat?  I'm guessing the 24/7 eating dairy goats aren't over weight?   You can still see their "dairy" hips a little?  I'd assume you wouldn't feed them that way if they were, huh?  I'm a little perplexed of how we could be so off on our estimate of how much to give them.  :/ 

I was told they tend to over eat.  I could see that happening the way I've seen ours inhale their hay at meal times.  They are not boney at all so it's not like I think we're starving them.  I just thought they might need a *bit* extra condition.  I just asked the vet how she thought they looked two weeks ago.  She said the same - could use just a bit more on them but they looked healthy.

What percentage of a normal 100lb bale do you think each of your goats eat in a day?  1/5?  1/6?  1/10?


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jul 14, 2011)

It depends on the season, how much forage is available, how much grain they are getting, etc.  But the average for calculating hay storage for the year is a bale a week per goat.  I found that to be pretty true. They go through more in the winter and less in the summer. 


I also get junk/cow 6/700lb round bales for them to pick at and play on in the field and then have good horse hay up in the barn for them on rainy days and to snack on at night.  With 7 goats and one sheep, I dropped a round bale out there eh 3-4 weeks ago and they've had 5 square bales of good stuff in that time. The round bale is about 1/2 gone.


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## freemotion (Jul 14, 2011)

Are they lactating?  If so, it is hard to keep them in condition without pushing the hay, and good quality hay, too.  A good producer needs to be eating and cud chewing almost constantly it seems.


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## ChickenPotPie (Jul 14, 2011)

Okay, Suburban.  Are those 100lb square bales?  If so, you're feeding about 3.5lbs per goat/sheep per day.  That helps me.  

I stayed up 'til the wee hours of the morning reading and searching the subject.  It's really amazing how many sources will just _not_ state a general weight they'll recommend.  lol  They'll give a ton of info, and greatly varied instructions, for feeding grains and a bucket load of supplements.  One author even talked about the importance of weighing hay but never gave any rule of thumb for that weight per goat.  In a word, it was a bit frustrating.  

Well, I went through the goat care seminar booklet from our vet.  For our males - very little or no grain, no all-alfafla diet, give them white salt (and minerals, of course), and plenty of fresh water.  Another source said that an orchard/alfalfa mix balance each other out for buck/wether calcium/phosphorus ratio needs.  Nice to know.  We were actually already feeding them this way.  

Later, at about 2:30am  , I found it - the recommended weight of hay per goat.   

"(Start out with) 5 lbs/animal/day, and adjust from there. Dry, open does, wethers, and non-breeding bucks do not require alfalfa - good quality grass will do just fine. Breeding does, breeding bucks, nursing does, and pregnant does do need some alfalfa....feed a mixture of 1/2 grass, and 1/2 alfalfa, adjusting as needed based on how well they maintain body condition."

We had been feeding orchard/alfalfa before I recently thought all alfalfa might be better/give more weight.  I guess not.  We'll go back to the mix.  I calculated that between the 10 goats we are feeding 3 1/3 lbs per day per animal.  That is 1 buck who weights about 250 lbs, 3 mature does that are about 100 - 120 lbs each, and 6 - 60lb kids.  So, I believe it averages out that all are getting what is recommended for their weight.  Funny.  I guess I was worrying over nothing but at least now, I know what is normal and that I'm not doing something horrifically wrong with them.  

So, we'll keep feeding the way we are - hay in the morning (they sit and chew cud in the latter part of the day), loose minerals with white salt, and plenty of fresh water, and sweet feed to does in milk and in the latter part of their pregnancies.  

I'll probably see improved condition when we give them ivermectin and panacur this week, too.

Thanks all.  I really do appreciate your help.  Plus, it's always nice to see what other people are doing for feed.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 14, 2011)

We were feeding a 40lb alfalfa bale  and a 50 lb 2nd cut grass mix bale of hay a day to 16 does, so we are close to 100 lbs of hay total for 16 does.  We pretty much feeding free-choice, some days there would be left-overs and some days it would not be quit enough. This was in the winter with no browse. In the summer we only offer pasture, and a little grain to kids under 1 year of age or does that are still nursing babies, otherwise all the other goats are on pasture only, and free-choice goat minerals. 

why not offer them about 4-5 lbs of alfalfa hay a day each, and then free-choice grass hay. or if they have browse that would be fine instead of the grass hay in the summer.


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## ChickenPotPie (Jul 14, 2011)

Yeah, we've got to creep it up regardless in order to keep up with the growing kids but I was thinking of upping it just a tad more overall anyway.  Just not free choice.  It may turn out to be the same amount as free choice but I like to know exactly what I'm giving so I best know how I should adjust feed if I need to.

Since seeing innumerable pet rabbits in my days at the shelter and having been breeding show rabbits for years, which has given me the opportunity to open them up and see what how diet affects general health (and what that _looks_ like on the inside of both the healthy and unhealthy), I've learned to fear internal fat in animals.  So, I'm going to give the routine ivermectin and panacur to improve condition, as well as, creep up the grass/alfalfa mix hay slowly.  Up to 5 lbs per adult too see what happens with that - put my hands on them and eye ball it, you know?

So, while I'm relieved to know I'm not that far off with hay weight per animal, it will be good to see how much more hay they can have to get them to a perfect muscle condition without over conditioning.  It'll be a good experiment.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 14, 2011)

ChickenPotPie said:
			
		

> I was told they tend to over eat.  I could see that happening the way I've seen ours inhale their hay at meal times.


If hay is limited they're going to attack it at meal times- just like ours attack the limited amount of grain they get.  But made available 24/7 they aren't going to hoover it with such gusto indefinitely.  Ours typically go a little nuts when a fresh flakes are provided, then their consumption levels off and they eat normally.  If you're concerned about overconditioning by providing alfalfa hay free choice then you could always provide grass hay free choice and limit alfalfa hay.  There is no way a dairy doe is going to get overconditioned to the point of concern on free choice grass hay.


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## ChickenPotPie (Jul 14, 2011)

I think you make a good point about the scarfing.  I'll have to keep that in mind when I'm judging their intake.  Thank you.  

And, I think you, N.smithrumond, and 20kidsonhill for the suggestion.  I may just have to do that because I went to the feed store as well as a large hay company today and no one has the mix I was using anymore.  :/  I'm told by the owner of the hay company that this is a bad year for hay in my state so there just aren't that many choices - that people are just forced to choose from what is still available.  At least they have "only alfalfa" bales and "only orchard grass" bales.  However, they're $17 and $20 per bale and the hay company said the price will go up soon.  

So, now, I'm trying to figure out what other types of hay would be good for goats (more affordable hays).  I've noticed that those BYH members back east have hays that are not even available on this coast and I've never even heard of some of the east coast kinds of hay.  So, I need to figure out what is good goat hay from what is available here.  Perhaps someone might know something about these other hays?  I just don't know enough about the nutritional values of hays to make any educated decisions. 

Other hays I have to choose from:
- Timothy (even more expensive than alfalfa or orchard grass so that is out of the question)
- Oat/Wheat grass
- Oat/Barley grass
- Forage #1 (beardless wheat/beardless barley/oat/vetch)
- "cow hay" (not even sure what that means)

How 'bout it?  Can anyone give me any info as to whether any of these are good for goats?


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 14, 2011)

Are those really your only other options?  I've read that depending on when it's harvested your oat and wheat hay may not be anything more than straw.  Steer clear of "cow hay" unless your seller is knowledgeable and honest about what they are selling... sometimes cow hay means junky, moldy hay that is unfit for goats and sometimes cow hay means "not horse quality."  I've had a couple decent bales of fescue mix hay from someone local that wasn't necessarily horse quality because it was weedy and contained johnson grass.  But it was clean and weedy isn't a problem for goats.  If you don't have a trustworthy, first-hand source of "not horse-quality but not junky" cow hay then you might try a bale or two.  But otherwise "cow hay" should be a red flag.

Alfalfa is really expensive here in the South... sometimes I'm lucky enough to snag a few bales of something nice, sometimes I have to feed good grass hay and alfalfa pellets.  They don't enjoy the pellets quite as much, but at least the quality is guaranteed, there's little waste, and they're always available.


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## ChickenPotPie (Jul 15, 2011)

Wait, I forgot one.  Blue grass.  I'd never heard of that being available in CA but apparently it came from Oregon or Washington.  That's quite a distance to transport hay economically.

The hay company did distinguish oat/wheat hay from wheat straw so I think that is probably a clue that they're honest.  Plus, they serve customers who buy tons of hay at once I'd think that if they didn't have good ethics that it would really hurt them in the pocket book to loose a big client.

Okay, I *thought* I had heard that hay for cows might be moldy (something about their digestive system) but I guess it might be a little different from place to place.  Like I do remember that a neighbor grows his own hay.  He was out in his field one day so I stopped to ask him if the hay was good for goats and if he'd sell us a few bales.  He said it was for cows and he didn't think it would be appropriate for our goats.  But I've seen him cut and bale it for a few years now and I don't think it could be moldy.  But, still, I should probably steer clear of it like you said.  Thanks.

And yes, those I listed plus the Blue grass are my only choices.  :/  I think I'll just have to mix my own like you suggested.  We'll just have to suck it with with the high prices and sell a few goats because we can't keep this up until the kids are grown.  My son *had* thought of selling his more dairy/less showy doe before and replace her with a show kid but it would be hard for me the best milker go because to me, they're great to have around just for that purpose.  Ah, well.  You gotta do what you gotta do.  :/


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 15, 2011)

http://www.hobbyfarms.com/crops-and-gardening/hay-feeding-14792.aspx

http://www.guinealynx.info/hay_chart.html


there are lots of articles on hay types and the nutritional value of the different kinds of hay depending on its maturity.


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