# Farm dog vs LGD?



## LMK17 (Apr 8, 2017)

One of our first aquisitions once we move to the county will be a couple of dogs.  We have a wonderful chow chow mix, but at over 10 years old, she's never so much as seen a chicken or cow, and she's never spent a night outside.  She'll firmly remain a house dog.   

Though I envision these new dogs being allowed into the house on occasion, and I want them to be well bonded to the family, I want them to primarily patrol the property (figure around 20 acres) and alert to unfamiliar people as well as animal predators.  Not necessarily looking for them to fight anything; just want them to let me know when I need to check something out.

I've never had a "working dog" before; they've all been strictly pets.  Any tips on choosing the right dogs for this purpose?  Ideally, they'll come from the shelter, although in this case, I'm not totally opposed to going to a breeder.  Also, I suppose I'm looking for a "farm dog" as opposed to a LGD, right?  I mean, I want these dogs to play in role in protecting the livestock, but that won't be their only role.  Also, once I bring them home, how to I go about training them to alert to unfamiliar people/animals?


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## Baymule (Apr 8, 2017)

If you're going to have small livestock like goats or sheep, you would do best with a LGD. Coyotes are terrible here and if it were not for our two Great Pyrenees, our sheep would be dead. But of course, LGD's bark at night, to warn predators to stay away--and they do. The GP's don't come in the house. They stay outside and have shelter from heat, rain and cold. They both are socialized, the male better than the female. We got Trip (male) as a puppy and had more chances to socialize him. We got Paris (female) at almost a year old and she was already a little weird. Both will ride in a vehicle to go to the vet.

We have 2 farm dogs, both stay in the house and can go out on the farm to play. Neither one is allowed in the GP's "work" area. ALL our dogs are good with the poultry and livestock. Our farm dogs are an Australian Shepherd and a black Lab/Great Dane mix. Neither one would protect the livestock and would probably be coyote bait if they tried.

All the dogs love children and would lay down their life for children. Our black Lab/GD actually growled like he meant business when a neighbor lady got onto her own 2 year old son here, one day. She thought it was great that he would protect her son-even from her!

2 of our dogs with our then 2 year old grand daughter


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 8, 2017)

I have 4 GP and 1 GPx Border Collie
One GP Angel is the only one who likes to come into the house
I have to drag the others out of "their" field to go to the vet
But we spend plenty of time with them in "their " field giving and receiving affection


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## LMK17 (Apr 9, 2017)

Baymule said:


> ...We have 2 farm dogs, both stay in the house and can go out on the farm to play. Neither one is allowed in the GP's "work" area. ALL our dogs are good with the poultry and livestock. Our farm dogs are an Australian Shepherd and a black Lab/Great Dane mix. Neither one would protect the livestock and would probably be coyote bait if they tried.
> 
> All the dogs love children and would lay down their life for children...



Thanks for the info!  

Just wondering, what is it about the farm dogs that would make them coyote bait?  

I'm still not sure whether a LGD is quite what I want, at least at first.  To start off, we'll have chickens (who'll be locked up at night) but no other small livestock.  And I want the dogs to indirectly protect the livestock, as in, I want them to alert to anything unusual trying to get onto the farm.   So maybe a vocal dog that is big enough to appear intimidating to humans or trespassing animals is what I'd do best with?


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## Green Acres Farm (Apr 9, 2017)

@Southern by choice


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## TAH (Apr 9, 2017)

LMK17 said:


> Just wondering, what is it about the farm dogs that would make them coyote bait?


A chihuahua will bait in coyotes, Lol! I have just one dog a Blue Heeler, Pit, Lab mix...one night I was sleeping out in the living room when Boaz started barking and growling! He really wanted outside so I grab an FL and headed out...after a few seconds I see a coyote headed towards the chicken and goat pen when I sent Boaz after the coyote...he chased that thing right off the property! I was 
I will say I think not all dogs are coyote bait! Of course, don't get a little 40-pound dog but get a 75-100-pound farm dog and even tho they won't stay with the stock they will chase things off the property.


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## Alibo (Apr 9, 2017)

My Doberman is a great farm dog, wonderful size, great protector of the family and farm and quick to alert me if something is going on even from inside the house. Her ears are cropped and she has a much better hearing range than our other dogs (we have 4 of different breeds).  She is wary of strangers and will not let anyone on our property without letting me know, though not aggressive, just indimidating, Although I do NOT recommend this dog if you do not have a firm handle on how to properly socialize and train a dominant dog. If you do, they are amazing muti purpose creatures ! My big baby goes everywhere with me and is very friendly. Perfect with all of my small and large livestock too.


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## Baymule (Apr 9, 2017)

Unless you have goats or sheep, you don't need a LGD. If you have chickens, then you need to train your dog that they belong to you and chasing or catching the chickens is not ok with you.

Coyotes have been known to lure a dog out away from the house or barn, then the pack jumps on the dog, kills and eats it. Sometimes it is a female coyote in heat, they are very smart.


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## LMK17 (Apr 10, 2017)

TAH said:


> A chihuahua will bait in coyotes, Lol! ...
> I will say I think not all dogs are coyote bait! Of course, don't get a little 40-pound dog but get a 75-100-pound farm dog and even tho they won't stay with the stock they will chase things off the property.



HAHA... Got me there with the chihuahua.  But then, I'm not sure those actually qualify as dogs...    But I was thinking along the same lines as you:  A reasonably larger dog, particularly if it's paired with another big dog, should be fairly safe from coyotes...?



Baymule said:


> Unless you have goats or sheep, you don't need a LGD. If you have chickens, then you need to train your dog that they belong to you and chasing or catching the chickens is not ok with you.
> 
> Coyotes have been known to lure a dog out away from the house or barn, then the pack jumps on the dog, kills and eats it. Sometimes it is a female coyote in heat, they are very smart.



Good to know, thanks. So definitely want to train the dogs to the fences!  I'm also hoping that if I have 2 who are bonded to one another, one won't just randomly go wandering off... 

My current thinking is that I'll get 2 larger farm dogs to man the property lines shortly after we find a place.  I've been wanting a couple donkeys, anyway, so a bit further down the line perhaps the donkeys could be my pasture guardians.  I'd eventualy like to try run a flerd with cattle, the donkeys, and some free ranging chickens.  It's probably just a wait and see kind of thing.... Maybe I'll find myself in the market for LGDs at some point, or maybe not.

Those of you with farm dogs-  Aside from size, what sorts of things should I be considering when I go to choose my new farm dogs?  I really do think I'll go through a shelter or rescue...  What qualities the dogs exhibit in the shelter are likely to be things that will translate well to working a farm?


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## samssimonsays (Apr 10, 2017)

My collie came from very strong working lines. Working along the lines of protecting livestock, not herding. Her father lived with the goats, another lived with chickens and so on. Our girl is AMAZING with anything but especially with baby anything. ROUGH collies are MUCH different than BORDER collies in the sense that they are gentle and nurture vs the intensity. I will say, they are NOT for everyone but they do make phenomenal farm dogs. Their want to stay home is strong as they bond closely with their people and "charges".


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## Simpleterrier (Apr 10, 2017)

There is an unlimited number of dog breeds that will work great. I would stay away from herding breeds. I like terriers alot of people think they can't be trusted with livestock mine tolerate the animals. I would lock the Airedale in my coop all night and I would sleep like a baby. Also had a great Dane that was good with that animals. Alot of shelter dogs make great farm dog.  I would go for a dog 70 lbs or so. One thing keep one dog penned or tied up two dogs don't listen as good as one.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 10, 2017)

Many of us have dogs we refer to as "farmdogs" however there is a big difference between LGD, REAL Farmdogs, and the family pet that is really a housedog but does great on the farm.
The latter is not a true farmdog.

A true farmdog is a dog that lives outside and patrols, protects, "supervises" if you will the daily goings on of the farm. They do NOT live inside.
IMO many of the best farmdogs are LGD's that didn't quite cut it as LGD's or were TOOOO needy of human attention and did not do well full time with livestock.
Farmdogs are or should be social and love the family etc but not be needy and not want to be in your house on the couch.... they are more or less bonded to their territory and are quite happy with seeing their humans but not needy.


I recently evaluated (preliminary evaluation) of a litter. One of my dogs that was purchased is actually the sire to this litter. There are seven pups. There is 1 pup in particular that IMO should only be placed in a farmdog setting- NOT as a LGD. This little girl is smart, intuitive. Passed noise test, sudden movement, stranger approach and a variety of other things I do with 10-12 week old pups. However, she really is very very social with the human family.... of course all the pups are social but there are certain traits that this dog shows that tell me "farmdog" environment is best. The owner of the litter considered keeping her as the farmdog  but her current farmdog is young and does not need replaced.

I have been called to many farms that are utilizing LGD breeds that failed the true LGD job but are now successful farmdogs.

Not any dog will do and that is it in a nutshell. A true farmdog does live outside wants to be outside does have a job but is also the dog that would sleep on the porch while watching over the property.
Housedogs that do great on the farm or with livestock still want to be housedogs and come in at night and typically are more there for their human not the property.
Size is important especially if there are predators. Many farmdogs will bark or try to chase off a predator but typically cannot take on a coyote and they don't necessarily try like a LGD will.
Coons, oppossum, small predators can easily be handled by a farmdog. 

My neighbors Rottweiler could not prevent coyotes from taking not just one dog but two small dogs right off their porch ( two different events).


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## LMK17 (Apr 11, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> Many of us have dogs we refer to as "farmdogs" however there is a big difference between LGD, REAL Farmdogs, and the family pet that is really a housedog but does great on the farm.
> The latter is not a true farmdog.
> 
> A true farmdog is a dog that lives outside and patrols, protects, "supervises" if you will the daily goings on of the farm. They do NOT live inside.
> ...



Thanks for the insight, and yes, I had the different categories of dogs straight.  My chow mix is strictly a house dog-- she'll be allowed out on the farm, but she comes in at night.  She's a good watchdog in the house but won't be expected to do anything about problems outside.  

The dogs I want to get will have nice beds made up in the barn or other suitable shelter.  I want them to be friendly and playful with the family, but they'll be outside dogs who will only be in the house on occasion, if ever.  I want them outside where they can monitor what's going on around the property, especially as night.

And if I ever come into a time where my livestock is being threatened by predators, then I'll consider a livestock guardian.  At this point, I'm thinking an ass will suit me best.  

Thanks again for the tips.


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## Bruce (Apr 13, 2017)

The first thing you need is good fencing. It can keep predators out and you need it to keep dogs in.


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## centrarchid (May 14, 2017)

I have working farm dogs in the form  of English Shepherd, German Pointer and a large cross with a molosser of some sort.  Dogs function primarily as guardians although can switch into hunting mode.  Previous male German Pointer assessed with night time work by locating birds on the ground.  The English Shepherd is displaying some herding inclination although that is not being promoted.  Most time spent away from poultry area although they have very rapid response when poultry produce alarm calls.  We decidedly dominate Coyotes.  Red Fox is only critter that tries to come in and a couple of those have been killed by dogs.  We are also hard on dogs not ours.

I am in the long term training camp rather than bloodlines only.


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