# This concerns me greatly



## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2013)

It looks like government is yet again trying to protect us.
How many of you appreciate being able to purchase basic medicines at your local farm store? 
Being able to treat an animal without a costly vet bill is crucial for me.  
I just heard about this on the news this morning.  Here is a snippet of it.
FDA is issuing a final guidance document that explains how animal pharmaceutical companies can work with the agency to voluntarily remove growth enhancement and feed efficiency indications from the approved uses of their medically important antimicrobial drug products, and move the therapeutic uses of these products from over-the-counter (OTC) availability to marketing status requiring veterinary oversight.

Once manufacturers voluntarily make these changes, the affected products can then only be used in food-producing animals to treat, prevent or control disease under the order of or by prescription from a licensed veterinarian.
What all this means is that you will not be able to purchase the most basic meds at the feed store like we do now.  It will all be by rx only.
I dont know about you guys but this will not work very well for alot of us.
Many animals are going to die over this legislation.
One of the meds mentioned in another article is tetracycline.  I imagine that includes duramycin and all those others.
My advice is to stock up now while you can.


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## Andrei (Dec 11, 2013)

So the proposed legislation is to control antibiotics for animals?
On one hand on human use and animal use I agree that antibiotics are being abused by some and with negative side effects but again I know that there are responsible knowledgeable individuals that know the side effects of this powerful medication so there is my dilemma.
Yes, it is sad that Pharmaceutical companies are allowed to mark up medication 700% and now they will add the cost of a prescription to that.
But looking at the big picture I know that wrong use of antibiotics will damage an organism and immune system more then help.
Maybe that is why I lean strongly to my inherited Natural Medicine knowledge and attraction.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 11, 2013)

Our vet told us of this a year ago, said this was going to happen. *Also said the FDA may be limiting the veterinarians also.* Scary!
The biggest reason for this is because too many people throw stuff at their animals and don not follow any guidelines for withdrawals etc. 
Lots of sheep and goat owners play the "shoot in the dark" game. Every week there is a sale at the auction house about 45 minutes away from us... these animals are disgusting...sick and horrible looking... most are brought there because the people want to make a buck. One can only imagine how many different dewormers and antibiotics have been given to these animals before being taken to the auction.
Honestly if livestock owners would cull the problem animals, they would have far less problems in their overall herd. Management is going to be critical in the coming years... these OTC products will be gone.


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## Andrei (Dec 11, 2013)

I think this will eliminate genetically week animals from the reproductive pool in the long run.
But for many it will be painful.
The other day at the doctor my wife has seen a case that made her revolt.
A 3 yr old girl with a cut on her finger came in and the doctor prescribed her antibiotics.
That medication at that age can ruin her health for life.


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## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2013)

I grew up old school. Doctors were gods. You did as they dictated.  Survived, now realize many doctors don't have any common sense and should not be doctors. LOL
Auctions seem to be a place for cast offs thats for sure.  I have gone a few times  but was not impressed with selection.  I prefer to pay more and buy from breeders. Gives me a chance to talk to them and see the rest of their animals.
I do think that these new rules will put many of us out of keeping our little herds and flocks iIf we cannot doctor them without breaking the bank.
One of the reasons I keep my sheep and goats is to provide meat.  I used to hunt deer and elk for that. But our dept of wildlife is managing the herds around us to extinction. 
So now they are going after my animals thru my wallet.
Thats how I feel about it.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 11, 2013)

Yes... it is very calculated Alsea.
For those that think they will be able to hunt... nah ... that will change too.


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## kinder (Dec 11, 2013)

O.M.G.  This is so not right... they are taking away anything that we hold dearly I haven't even gotten my animals yet !!


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## Andrei (Dec 11, 2013)

You will get animals and hopefully ones that do not need medication.
In the long run the genetic pool will improve.


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## Bossroo (Dec 11, 2013)

Big brother's incompetence at it's best !         Since now we have to wait a day or two for a Vet to show up at our ranch to treat a sick or injured animal, just how much longer we would have to wait for a Vet to show up just to write a prescription while our animals are dyeing.   I have been raising animals all of my life and have treated sick or injured animals with great success since I learned those skills from my father  ( who was a Vet.) and some of the best educated Vets. with Phds. at a University Veterinary Teaching Hospital as well as in the school of hard knocks. Also, because I have a cabinet and refrigerator supplied with needed medication and first aid supplies .  Without that many animals would  have  been lost.   The holistic / natural / organic products  more often than not are useless to marginally effective as their potency or lack thereof varies greatly between samples, storage practices, age, etc..  All medications must be labeled as to type, dosage  and including expiration dates , while the " holistic / natural / organic " products may or may not be since many are gathered by the user or from someone with limited or hearsay knowledge.  Many in the "homestead " sector will then be greatly affected and loose many of their animals.  The shopping "local" will be greatly affected as many local producers and farmer's markets will be forced out of business due to rising costs therefore they have to raise their prices while their customers ( many with fixed incomes, lower incomes, working part time, laid off, or looking for work ) will start to go elsewhere, like the chain grocery stores, for their food.          Oh ,  I wasn't aware  that the natural medicine knowledge is inherited.


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## Andrei (Dec 11, 2013)

Bossroo said:


> have treated sick or injured animals with great success since I learned those skills from my father
> 
> Oh ,  I wasn't aware  that the natural medicine knowledge is inherited.


Beautiful.


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## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2013)

Stocking up on some things like LA200 is not a good option because of the exp. dates. Ugh.
Andrei, the geni is already out of the box. You cannot put it back.  
As for better genetics, I suppose that could be. However the collateral damage is going to be huge with a ton of unintended consequences.  
For one thing, this will be just one more thing to push the cost of food production and make home raised meat, dairy and eggs no longer affordable for many of us.


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## Andrei (Dec 11, 2013)

There will always be a black market and I think less available medication will reduce the cost of home raised meat, eggs and dairy.
I have zero cost for my rabbit meat and my sister has zero cost for her egg production.

PS. I loved Genie in I dream of Genie.


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## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2013)

I strongly disagree with you Andri.


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## Bossroo (Dec 11, 2013)

alsea1 said:


> I strongly disagree with you Andri.


X 2 !!!


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## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2013)

Personally I think that the corp. farms will get around this easily because they have the money.  Its the small time guy that does not abuse medications that will suffer greatly. Our animals will wind up paying a big price as well.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 11, 2013)

alsea1 said:


> Personally I think that the corp. farms will get around this easily because they have the money.  Its the small time guy that does not abuse medications that will suffer greatly. Our animals will wind up paying a big price as well.



Corporate farms have a staff vet. So, they will get around it.


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## bonbean01 (Dec 11, 2013)

I hadn't heard of this before and it does disturb me...I wouldn't sleep well at night without my fridge having meds that my sheep may need asap, and that I can afford.  When they expire, even if never opened, I replace them.  And we all know how our critters like to get sick in the middle of the night on weekends!


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## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2013)

My gripe is that for many situations I do not need a vet. I know what is wrong and what to give.
There are some times when a vet is nec. and I will call them in. 
These rules will not solve a thing.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 11, 2013)

It definitely will have an effect. 
Having a really good relationship with your vet also helps.
Sadly there are less and less large animal/livestock vets leaving many without any vet at all.

This can be fought though and we need to remember that.


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## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2013)

I need to contact my state reps and stuff about this.


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## bonbean01 (Dec 11, 2013)

Alsea, is this part of the new farm bill?  Would like to read more about it.


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## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2013)

I read this article.
http://www.raps.org/focus-online/ne...bing-of-antibiotics-to-unhealthy-animals.aspx


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## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2013)

This article spells it out pretty clearly
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/sns-rt-us-fda-antibiotic-20131211,0,5961524.story


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## alsea1 (Dec 11, 2013)

A short list of the meds to be phased into prescription only
The antibiotics at issue include penicillins, macrolides and tetracyclines. The FDA said it would release a complete list on Thursday.


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## bonbean01 (Dec 11, 2013)

Thank you!


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## BrownSheep (Dec 12, 2013)

YAY all the stuff I use! 

We don't use antibiotics often....Heck we don't use anything very often but when we do it is because the animal NEEDS it. Not to make my life easier but to insure the health and survival of the animals in my care. 

In many cases it is cheaper to let an animal, especially for smaller livestock like sheep and goats,  die or to put it down yourself  than to call out a vet. There are many old school farmers who will do that instead of going into the red. 

I'm greatful I've never been in that situation and sad to see it could be come an issue in the future.


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## bonbean01 (Dec 12, 2013)

Going on 7 years now with sheep, and only twice have we needed to use antibiotics...both times late at night and on a weekend...and very glad to have meds in the fridge for that to start it right away.  For us small time herders, a large vet budget isn't in the plan.


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## alsea1 (Dec 12, 2013)

We need to bring our concerns to what ever government agency will listen.
I am on board with not raising livestock in such a manner that they require full time meds on board in order to survive, but brown sheep is right. Many animals will be lost because the market value does not allow for costly vet visits.
And yes, I also have seldom used antibiotics and penicillin, however when I did it was critical that I was able to obtain the meds without the use of a vet.  Otherwise I'm afraid the animal would likely have been lost.
The pet industry is way different than the livestock industry and we need to be heard.


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## alsea1 (Dec 12, 2013)

I don't know if Sulmet is going to be one of those meds on the list, but I just ordered some.  Jeffers is back ordered indef.  I got mine thru Santa Cruz for $6.74 per 16 oz bottle.
I use it for cocci for the rabbits and sheep and goats with exc. results.  
Figured I might start stocking up before the craze hits.  It could be that meds. start to get hard to buy because we are all freaking out and stocking up. LOL  Like ammo.


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## Beekissed (Dec 14, 2013)

I think there will have to be a big learning curve on preventative livestock health management for small holders.  It will cause people to think and plan more in regards to obtaining certain animals and breeds and also highlight the need to develop a more sustainable paradigm. 

Some farmers and backyarders have been doing it for some years and managing to keep their animals above the ground and even make a profit, so it can be done.  Just going to take some learning, some fortitude and a little extra effort.


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