# 12 day old doeling first diahrea now not eating...



## dejavoodoo114 (Feb 16, 2013)

Ok, So I picked up Kit Kat on Tuesday, the breeder over feeds all her kids and suggested to stop the diahrea to regulate her milk. I did and two days later it firmed up well. I am feeding milk from my Nubian doe who kidded twins on the 8th. So, by Thursday evening her poo was fine and she was fine. Friday, last night I took my three kids and a lightly older girl with scurs to get disbudded.
   So this morning Kit Kat would not eat breakfast, she never misses a meal and has no problem with the bottles. I didn't worry too much about thinking she might still be stressed from last night. However, the new boy (her brother) we picked up and the other two had no problems with breakfast or lunch. She is acting a bit off. Not quite as bouncy as usual. She continued to refuse the milk at lunch. We are only giving 8 ounces 3 times a day to all our kids right now so she is not full... Nothing else has changed. 
   I have vitamin B complex and probios but have not given her anything because I wasn't sure what the dosage would be. Please advise me on what to do. I do not want to loose this little one.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Feb 16, 2013)

She is licking lips and and when she 'swallows' she sounds like she is grinding her teeth. She is doing this often.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 16, 2013)

no runny poop? 

Get a temp on her.  

I am thinking either pnuemonia setting in or overeating disease setting in.  

For overeating disease give some baking soda every 3 or 4 hours. 

Wait does the kid weigh?  


obviously if you take her temp and it is high, she need antibiotics.  I think she may need antibiotics anyway. Do you have any Penn G(procain G)?  

For over eating disease they will look full, and almost a little bloated, get weak acting, maybe start scouring, go off feed and can run a really high temp.  antibiotics, C&D antitoxin, baking soda nad electrolytes are needed.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 16, 2013)

dejavoodoo114 said:
			
		

> She is licking lips and and when she 'swallows' she sounds like she is grinding her teeth. She is doing this often.


based on that I am thinking over eating disease or floppy kid syndrom, both are a bacterial bloom in her stomach causing pain and indigestion.  

can you get a temp on her?


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## dejavoodoo114 (Feb 16, 2013)

I went to co-op to get vitamin B complex and probios and thermometer... They were very busy and I got everything but the thermometer... No idea on temp. She is inside by the wood stove and shivering still. 

I have read of the floppy kid syndrom but her stomach is not sloshy...


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## babsbag (Feb 16, 2013)

If it is entero  (over eating) you have to treat *fast and hard*. You can lose them withing 12-24 hours.

you need the cd antitoxin, not the toxoid that you use for the vaccine, this is a critical difference that is often missed.  You have got to find this

This is how I treated and saved a 2 week old boer kid last year.

treatment: 
10 cc C&D orally 
10 cc C&D sub q
5 cc Pen G orally 
5 cc Pen G sub q
I repeated oral dose of both every 2 hours for 6 hours. Might be overkill, but it I was pretty panicked and help nothing back.
6 cc pepto-mismal over 6 hours
baking soda (don't remember how much i tried, but she didn't get much)
.5 cc banamine

probios after she is better.


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## babsbag (Feb 16, 2013)

If it isn't entero this stuff won't kill her so if she were mine I would do it anyways.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Feb 16, 2013)

I have no way of getting the CD antitoxin... I have the Essential 3+T for CDT. All the co-ops close at 12:00. They will not be open until Monday. I also don't have pen G, nor do I know what it is... What else can I try in the mean time???


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## dejavoodoo114 (Feb 16, 2013)

Are you sure its overeating? Since Tuesday, instead of getting as much as she wanted she has been getting 8 ounces 3 x day. Her poo firmed up Thur and is still good today... But now she is not eating...


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## babsbag (Feb 16, 2013)

Overeating isn't really from over eating, it is from a bacteria that has multiplied in the gut. I am not sure this is what she has, just what I would suspect first.

http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0089/

Do you have any friends that might have this stuff? Do you have a Tractor Supply or another feed store? TSC sometimes has the antitoxin and sometimes they don't. I keep a bottle on hand during every kidding season, but have only needed it once.   

I don't know what else you can try. Maybe someone else will have an idea for you. Sorry, wish I had an idea. Hopefully she is hanging in there for you.


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## mjgh06 (Feb 16, 2013)

You really need to check her temp.  You don't have a human thermometer you can use?  The kind that beeps?  Place it in her bum covering the silver tip, when it beeps you have her temp.  Normal is  102.5 to 104.  If she is shivering I would think it is low and you need to get it up.  Fill up your sink with as hot of water as you can take, place little one in a garbage bag with her head out, get her into the water and continue putting the warm water over her for fifteen minutes.  Do not let the water get cold.  Afterwards dry her with a blow dryer on hot about 8-10 inches from her.  Warm some towels in the dryer or use a heating pad covered with a towel and warm her with them for another fifteen minutes or so.  Then treat as below:

If she was fine before going to get disbudded, then I say it is a reaction from getting disbudded.  The vet may have burned deeper on her and she went into shock - makes sense if she is grinding teeth which means pain.  I would get her on B1, b12, probios, and baking soda as follows

Use over the counter B1 and B12, B1 give 1 tablet of 250mg 2xd and then 1 Tablet B1 per day for a week or as needed.  Same with B12  Purchase the 2000mcg bottles of B12  - give 2 tablets 2xday then once a day for week or length needed.

Probios use about 2 tsp 2xd

Baking soda 1 tsp 

You can crush the vitamins up and mix it with the probios and baking soda then mix with water into a 3cc syringe and drench her with it, or give individually.

If she has a fever or if it is not low I would also give her Banamine (Fluxixin Meglumine- 50mg/ml)  *Always take temp prior to giving, if temp is low do NOT give.* It is used for fever, smooth muscle relaxant, pain reliever and to stimulate the rumen.  Dose 1 cc per 100 lbs body weight IM, but can be used at a rate of 1/2 cc per 25-30 lbs once daily -  treat no more than three days.  Keep refrigerated.  Milk withhold  3-4 days.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Feb 16, 2013)

That article said to give Thiamine or B1. I have the B-complex which I had thought to give her but I have no idea what a safe dosage would be.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Feb 16, 2013)

mjgh06, I forgot to refresh the page...
  I have no thermometer of any kind. If any of my 3 children gets sick my husband feels their forehead and tells me yes or no. She was shivering even in the house until we stocked the woodstove as much as we could. Because of the weather we now have all of them inside and she is no longer shivering. However, I am still concerned.

   As I said I have the B-complex but I could probably get the other stuff at walgreens tomorrow if you think its better. Should I give the others anything just to give them a boost and be sure? I have heard of too many people loosing kids and I want to do everything I can to avoid that. I also have probios that I bought at the co-op today which came in a tube and I have baking soda. Let me know about the vitamins and I will do it. 

Thank you!


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## babsbag (Feb 16, 2013)

I guess there is a Fortified B-Complex and a B complex Plus, and they are different. But B vitamins are just water soluable and the goat will pee them out, if she isn't dehydrated. I can't really find a dosing for the Plus but the Fortified is 5 mL per 100 pounds of body weight.

I hope that mjgh06 is right and it is just a reaction to the disbudding. That can be dangerous, but probably better than FKS or Entero. 

Do you have a neighbor you can borrow a thermometer from? If she has a temp and you don't have banamine I found this, but if she has a low temp you don't want to give the aspirin either. 

"BABY ASPIRIN (81 mg) If the goat is teeth grinding, indicating pain, you can crush up one baby
aspirin for each 10 pounds of goat. Drizzle with molasses and dissolve in hot water. Give to goat
orally, and can be given every 4 hours, as needed. Note: this may seem like a lot of aspirin for a larger
goat, but it takes a large dose to cross the brain synapsis and have any effect. You can use adult aspirin,
as long as you are careful of the 81 mg per 10 lb. ratio. Real aspirin, and not Ibupropen or Tylenol is
important, as the vehicle those medicines are carried in can severely irritate the goats stomach lining
and affect their sense of balance."

Here is something else I found that you can try.


"BABY MAGIC This is the recipe you can make at home, equaling the commercial product Nutra
Drench. It stimulates appetite, eases stress, helps with hydration, gives a boost of energy, boosts the
natural immune system, and is considered by most goats to be a treat. I use it most often right after a
doe kids. This is the basic recipe, and I usually multiply it enough to come up with half a gallon or so.

8 ounces very hot water Stir vigorously and serve to goat hot. They appreciate a hot drink
2 Tbsp. Molasses much the same as we enjoy a cup of coffee, tea or cocoa.
2 Tbsp. Light Karo Syrup
 tsp. Salt
 tsp. Baking soda"

I hope she gets better for you. I hate it when babies are sick. I had three sick last year, the same night, all with something different. I hated going to the barn that night.


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## mjgh06 (Feb 16, 2013)

dejavoodoo114 said:
			
		

> mjgh06, I forgot to refresh the page...
> I have no thermometer of any kind. If any of my 3 children gets sick my husband feels their forehead and tells me yes or no. She was shivering even in the house until we stocked the woodstove as much as we could. Because of the weather we now have all of them inside and she is no longer shivering. However, I am still concerned.
> 
> As I said I have the B-complex but I could probably get the other stuff at walgreens tomorrow if you think its better. Should I give the others anything just to give them a boost and be sure? I have heard of too many people loosing kids and I want to do everything I can to avoid that. I also have probios that I bought at the co-op today which came in a tube and I have baking soda. Let me know about the vitamins and I will do it.
> ...


Okay same principle with a goat - I have used this method to check for low temp when my thermometer broke on me.  Pinch as far down in the ear as you can or press two fingers down in the ear.  If it feels really warm almost hot your good - at least not a low temp.  If it is slightly warm to not/hot/notwarm, then low temp and needs immediate treatment to bring temp up.  Ask your husband to do it, he should feel like it is when he *knows *your child has a fever that is normal for a goat.  

Go ahead and dose with the probios and baking soda and the Bcomplex.  I've not used the gel probios before - use it as directed.  Mainstay for medicine chest for goats is probios, B1, B12, thermometer, activated or fish tank charcoal, molasses, baking soda, and pepto bismal.  Try to keep these always on hand.

Does she still have diarrhea?  If so I would not do the molassess/karo syrup recipe given - that will make it worse.  For diarrhea give Pepto-Bismol  Helps control diarrhea -give 3 cc every four to six hours until it returns to normal.


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2013)

mjgh06 said:
			
		

> Does she still have diarrhea?  If so I would not do the molassess/karo syrup recipe given - that will make it worse.  For diarrhea give Pepto-Bismol  Helps control diarrhea -give 3 cc every four to six hours until it returns to normal.


Good point, I think I remember reading that the diarrhea was gone a few days ago, before she got disbudded.


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## babsbag (Feb 18, 2013)

Update? Hope she is ok


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## dejavoodoo114 (Feb 18, 2013)

She got better slowly but she I can say for sure now that she is better. The vitamin B shot seemed to help a lot. She ate all of her food all day today and was playing as much as the others. I think it must have been the pain from the disbudding although it is weird that the other 4 didn't have any problems. In fact, from the way they acted nothing had happened... They even continued to head but our older pyr to try and get him to play with him. 

Thank you all for your help and babsbag, I will be sure to have the CD antitoxin on hand next time. And a thermometer! I still can't believe I forgot it when I went to the co-op mainly for that! And, before you say it, I had a list that was in my hand and checked multiple times.... Sheesh!

Much relieved now


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## babsbag (Feb 18, 2013)

I am very glad she is better; I was really worried about her, and you.The little ones can go downhill so fast. Thanks for the update. 

I raised goats for 3 years before I needed the CD antitoxin and never had it on hand until last year. Then when I decided to be really prepared it was on backorder everywhere. I finally found it and I ended up needing it for the first time. I have quite a few friends that raise goats and we tend to share drugs when we need to which is really handy. I won't be without again. 

I don't keep a lot of drugs, but I do have Pen G, CD and tetanus antitoxin, Thiamine, Tylan, Duramycin, and epinephrine. Hopefully it will cover me until I can get to a vet. And I have my vet on speed dial  (And her home number)


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## LBFarms (Feb 22, 2013)

For future reference, Jeffers Livestock usually has the C&D Anti-toxin and will ship it out to you overnight, for something like $12, which isn't bad at all for overnight. I had to do that last year when one of my bucklings got into the chicken feed and bloated really bad. Gave him lots of baking soda and then the C&D Anti-Toxin & he was fine. Had another buckling do the same thing a few weeks later, he turned out fine too. (Now there are 20,000 volts separating the goats from the chicken feed!)


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