# Watering for winter



## Iwantgoats (Sep 12, 2010)

This will be our first winter with goats and we live in NY State.  I don't have electric in my stalls but am going to run an extension cord to hook up a heated waterer for the winter.  Any suggestions on type of waterer to use?  Do goats like snow?  I am assuming they will still go outside.  Don't need heat, right??  Thanks


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## ksalvagno (Sep 12, 2010)

Goats don't need heat but they do need to be able to fully get out of any elements including wind, rain, snow, etc. I just use heated water buckets or bird bath heaters in 5 gallon buckets.


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## Chirpy (Sep 12, 2010)

As long as your goats have a draft free, dry enclosure (which you should have with stalls) then they will be just fine through the winter.  Some goats have no problem with snow, some won't walk on it.  Mine won't go out into deep snow (deep to them is a few inches or more!) but will walk through a trace or inch of snow.  

I have thought about using a heated bucket for their water but my concern is how much goats love to 'mouth' everything.  You want to make sure they can't get to the cord and that it is a covered cord that can't be chewed on.  I also know that most heaters add up on the electric bill and I can't afford to pay lots to keep my animals water from freezing.  I just carry a lot of buckets and change out their pails regularly.  It takes more time but... it's free.

Hopefully some goat owners who have actually used heaters will chime in here and teach us both something.


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## goodhors (Sep 12, 2010)

Hate to be a nay-sayer, but running extension cords is really a bad idea in a farm setting.  Tank heaters pull a LOT of electric power, and a cheap cord can heat up and cause a fire.  Running your heater underpowered, will cause the heater to die early.  They just burn out quickly!

With weather still in the good days, soft ground, you should consider putting in an outdoor, GFCI outlet where you need it for powering the tank heater.  You can run the wire thru conduit or bury it in the ground to your needed location.  Wiring to supply the outlet is a much bigger gauge than extension cord, so electric power has an easier time delivering ENOUGH power for the heater.

Running underpowered heating devices, overloading your circuts to or from the barn, is asking for trouble.  Fire in the barn is a common story in the winter paper.  Wiring or outlets heat up, melt or spark, cause fires.  People complain about the "darn circut keeps blowing out" when the extension CORDS get plugged in, but CHANGE NOTHING.  I have seen heaters WAY OUT YONDER in the tank, using 2-3 extension cords plugged together for power.  You LOSE measurable power with each plug connection.  Cords get damaged when they get driven over, chewed on by animals, lay in wet places on the ground!!

My eyes get REAL BIG, and I point out the possible problems that can happen.  Usually I hear about the circut blowing often, heaters dying after only a short use time.  Owners prefer not to make things different, "too much work.  This has been fine for us".

So putting in an outdoor outlet or several, where you need them, will make winter water a lot easier to deal with, and your barn much safer as well.


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## Mea (Sep 12, 2010)

Iwantgoats said:
			
		

> This will be our first winter with goats and we live in NY State.  I don't have electric in my stalls but am going to run an extension cord to hook up a heated waterer for the winter.  Any suggestions on type of waterer to use?  Do goats like snow?  I am assuming they will still go outside.  Don't need heat, right??  Thanks


We din't have heaters for the animals water buckets in the barn... but we do carry hot water out twice a day during the cold months .   the way goaties like to chew... i would be uneasy about anything electrical within their nosey noses.

   Back in the day... , our Alpines might step outside...if there were clear patches to walk on, and the sun was shining, and we put some hay out, and we vigorously encouraged them Out... and, and, and... then they would be right back in the barn.

  Our current goats, Nubians,       Would much rather Not venture out     thankyouverymuch.

  Our barns have been unheated, but we try to keep wind and drafts out, and do allow the bedding to accumulate as that does generate some heat.       Then during a thaw...Must clean barn !!!


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## Beekissed (Sep 12, 2010)

I run extension cords to my coop and barn and have for the past 5 years now...no problems with my heated buckets yet.  The heated buckets have cords that are protected by wire coils around the cord....no chance of chewing there but, if you are worried, just set the bucket by your fence and leave the cord on the other side.  

I use the heated 5 gal. buckets for my dogs and my sheep with great success...they don't use a lot of heat, the water is barely pea warm, if that.  They don't register on my utility bills at all...no increase during the winter months.  

My dog's bucket is going on 5 years old now and still in great working order, despite always being plugged into extension cords....actually, I use a total of about 4  50ft. cords plugged into each other to reach all the way to my sheds. 

The other great thing about these buckets is that you can coil the cord into the bottom of the buckets in the nice little compartment intended for this use and you can use these same buckets all year.  They are practically indestructible!


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 13, 2010)

I don't use any heated buckets or de-icers.  I have a shovel and a sledge hammer for the trough.     Or if I use buckets I dump the buckets twice a day and refill them.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 13, 2010)

The concern about extension cords is a valid one.  Very, very valid.  The wiring in most homes is either 12ga or 14ga wire, for 20a or 15a circuits, respectively (though some folks put 15a breakers on 12ga wire to be extra safe, and some folks put 20a breakers on 14ga wire because they're stoopid -- point being that you can't necessarily *know* whether you've got 12ga or 14ga house wire by looking at the circuits).

What happens when you run A/C appliances over long distances (either through extension cords, or simply because a house is wired poorly) is that you get a voltage drop....most appliances are designed to run on 115 volts, but at a long distance from the breaker box, you may get significantly less than that.

That's what causes appliances to 'die' young.

The other problem -- the one I'd be most concerned with in this situation -- is that if you run appliances which pull lots of amperage (and a stock tank de-icer is a good example!!) through long, thin extension cords (anything less than 12ga, really...most common extension cords are 16ga or maaaaaaaybe 14ga), the wires will begin to heat up.  

When the wires heat up, they can either burn in half and begin to 'arc' (an arc being an open flame, basically) or melt the insulation off and begin to arc, or simply heat up enough to melt the insulation and the wires will set a nearby combustible item on fire.

IF YOU MUST run an extension cord to a de-icer, move the tank as close to a GFCI outdoor outlet on the house as you possibly can, and run the shortest heavy-duty cord (like, a 12ga cord!) possible.

We have a tank de-icer on an extension cord.  It's a heavy cord, and the tank's a short distance from the house..  The outlet it runs on is a GFCI circuit, and it's not very far from the breaker.  

Still, when it snows, snow won't stick to the extension cord.  The cord is warm enough from the draw of the de-icer that it melts snow.

Obviously, NOT IDEAL.

I have plans to run an aerial power-company-sized dropline from a 60A circuit off my main house panel to a 60A grounded subpanel in the barn, from which I'll run short 12ga GFCI circuits.  I already have the wire and a utility pole...just gotta set the pole and figure out what circuits to combine in my house, since the electrician seems to have run a seperate 12ga wire to EVERYTHING in my house and filled up the entire panel..

 :/

But, seriously...if you're going to run an exension cord, THINK ABOUT IT REALLY, REALLY HARD FIRST.


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## chandasue (Sep 15, 2010)

We have the same problem with no electrical in the barn but we did put it in the coop right next to it so we run an extension cord from there and take the risk. One of the many requirements of our next place is electricity to the goat house. But for now we have to make do.


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## freemotion (Sep 15, 2010)

Having experienced a barn fire years ago, I am super careful.  No bucket heaters or extension cords (except when I am standing there doing something.)  A friend's cat woke her up in the middle of the night and insisted that she go a door on the opposite side of the house, that was not her normal routine.  When my friend opened the door, she saw the heated water bucket in the paddock (outside, thank goodness) in flames, and the water pouring from the bucket over the flames yet somehow not dousing them.  If she hadn't seen it, the barn would've ignited next and they would've lost all their animals.  The kitty got a new name, Fire Kitty, and all the treats she wanted for quite a while after that.

You can make an insulated water bucket by placing your water bucket inside a larger one and filling the space in between with shavings and straw.  I use a feed pan with a water bucket inside it.  Filled with warm water, this will stay liquid for quite a few degrees below freezing.

For an even better solution, when I had my horse, I used a muck bucket and a five gallon pail.  I cut a "donut" from plywood that fit on top of the muck bucket with a hole for the pail.  I filled the space in between with foam packing peanuts and other scraps of packing foam, and filled the rest with "Great Stuff."  Screwed the plywood to the muck bucket.  That thing would get a 1/4 inch of breakable ice in only extremely cold weather, like -10F.  I figured it was liquid until they went to sleep, and I changed the water first thing in the morning, so no one went without water for long.

I don't use it now as it is too tall for my pygmies, and everyone lives together.  I've been thinking of making a shorter version, but the shavings/straw thing is working, and you know how that goes.....

The bigger one makes a great cooler for drinks at barbecues in hot July weather, though.....ice stays frozen ALL day!   I've also used it as an insulator to make jars of goat's milk yogurt.


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## Iwantgoats (Sep 19, 2010)

thanks for the opinions everyone.  We have alot to consider and think about and will hopefully find something that is safe and works for us. 
Glad to know that watering in the winter without electricity IS possible.


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## savingdogs (Sep 19, 2010)

Water freezes hard outside here in the winter but we found the pail in the goat barn did not freeze. When we refilled it, we did use a big giant container we had and used hot water from the house. They like drinking hot water when it is cold outside, or at least mine do. 

If we filled it once a day that way it stayed unthawed. Our goats get into too much mischief to have electric cords around.


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## Aped (Sep 20, 2010)

I don't have electricity to where the goats are so I fill once or twice a day depending if it freezes or not. I keep the water inside my goats' shelter. The floor is covered with straw which I don't change much in the winter. I have found that if the straw accumulates around the bucket, then the water is less likely to freeze overnight depending on temps. I always fill with hot water so I guess it's the insulation the straw gives. The goats also keep the shelter warmer with their body heat. Sometimes it's a hassle lugging a huge bucket of hot water back there, especially in 3 feet of snow but at least I know it doesn't freeze 2 seconds after I put it down. Which is a good thing because considering what other people have said and just the logistics of my setup, I'd never be able to run electric down there.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 20, 2010)

Tip of the day....two buckets of water are _much_ easier to carry than one bucket of water, even if both buckets are full.  And two half-full buckets as compared to one really full bucket?...a veritable walk in the park.

It's a balance thing.


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## Mea (Sep 20, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> It's a balance thing.


Un-oh.....  Now we have to be _balanced_ around the goaties ???    How long do You think They will go along with That ??  !!!


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## Iwantgoats (Sep 20, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Tip of the day....two buckets of water are _much_ easier to carry than one bucket of water, even if both buckets are full.  And two half-full buckets as compared to one really full bucket?...a veritable walk in the park.
> 
> It's a balance thing.


 well said, I found this out after about a week of goat raising, but you worded perfect.


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## PattySh (Sep 20, 2010)

I dunno about you guys but I could not get by without heated water buckets in the winter.  I chopped ice for many years and am done with that. I have 2 five gallon ones(75 watts) for the goats, the horses and cows each have a 16 gal muck bucket style heated bucket(250 watts) each, the piggies get a drop in water heater (like for birdbaths etc that heats to 25 gal and runs at 250 watts) in their waterers (plastic drum with pig nipples 10 inches up on barrel), chickens/turkeys  have heated plastic chicken waterer, and rabbits have heated water bottles.  I do have the luxury (by personal design !)of having all my stalls, chicken coop etc wired with electric plug ins so all "tanks" are inside. In the past I did have electric extension cords to run an outside heated bucket or tank(and actually I think we will need one for our boar piggie this year). If I use an extension cord in the winter I tape the connection with electrical tape securely, place it out of the walking area, place a piece of foam insulation over it etc to  protect the connection. Never had a problem. Foam insulation under a rubber tub also helps insulate for those who can't do electric heat, and a bucket in a bucket with foam insulation between can keep water from freezing. Avoid the expensive 1500Watt items there are alternatives that are alot less expensive to run.  I used to run a 1500W tank heater and that is sitting in my barn unused, all the heated wateres together now run on less! www.jefferslivestock.com has alot of heated waterers.


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