# Clover's Kidding Thread :D



## Goatgirl47 (Jan 21, 2016)

I only have one goat due relatively soon (the others are due in April and hopefully, May). Her name is Clover, and as most of you already know, she is due February 4th. I can't wait! She is an Alpine, and bred to an Alpine.

These first three pictures are from January 17th, and the other one I took January 19th. She is a little on the thin side, but I am hoping to get her a little thicker.  She is super sweet. 

Here is her baby belly;







On the first day I stanchion-trained her, she didn't want to get off;



January 19;




I will keep up to date as much as I can (with pictures too).


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## goats&moregoats (Jan 21, 2016)

Nice gal & good luck. Wishing you a safe, healthy kidding.


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 21, 2016)

Hope all goes well with her!


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## Poka_Doodle (Jan 21, 2016)

Excited to follow along


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## Latestarter (Jan 21, 2016)

Watching along with everyone else


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## newbiekat (Jan 23, 2016)




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## Goatgirl47 (Jan 23, 2016)

Thank you!

Here are a few pictures from today. For some reason two of them have the wrong dates on them...

My younger sister thinks its weird that I keep taking pictures of Clover's behind.


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## luvmypets (Jan 23, 2016)

Looking great! Here's to a successful and healthy birth


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## Mini Horses (Jan 23, 2016)

I love your Proverbs selection.   It brings to light the length of time goat milk has been used, it's importance, their worth and the depth to which we should honor this wonderful animal.

We look forward to her kids!   

Blessings to all goats and may the owners adore them.


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## Goatgirl47 (Jan 23, 2016)

Mini Horses said:


> I love your Proverbs selection.   It brings to light the length of time goat milk has been used, it's importance, their worth and the depth to which we should honor this wonderful animal.
> 
> We look forward to her kids!
> 
> Blessings to all goats and may the owners adore them.



Thank you! I love it too.


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## animalmom (Jan 23, 2016)

Clover has such a pretty face.


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## Latestarter (Jan 23, 2016)

I absolutely LOVE the green ears! I think it could become a new trend in ear hair styles!  

You know, thinking deeply about it (ya.. right) Maybe that's what started the trend in youth hair coloring... I mean goats and other farm animals have been doing this a long, long time... whaddayathink?


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## Mini Horses (Jan 23, 2016)

You must not get out much, Latestarter.  The trend IS for blue, green, pink, fuscia, etc. today.  My DgrD has green this week.    

Not just kids -- adults, too.    I haven't gone there myself.


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## Latestarter (Jan 23, 2016)

Yeah... yeah, that's exactly what I was saying... maybe years ago some kid saw this and decided it would be interesting and that brings us to today, where many folks color their hair all kinds of bright colors... I gotta say, combo's are my favorite... like purple and bright neon orange...


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## Goatgirl47 (Jan 25, 2016)

Here are a few more pictures of Clover. 




 


 


 
And, of course, one of Romeo...


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## BlessedWithGoats (Jan 27, 2016)

Aww! Wishing you a Blessed kidding season!!


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 1, 2016)

Still no change in her udder (or anywhere else) that I can see.  Her kid(s) have been moving around a lot these last few days. Three more days until her due date! Can't wait! 

 
 
 
I know that y'all are waiting for kid pictures, and just to tide you over, below are some other pictures of some of our animals I took today.

Penelope, annoyed that the chickens decided to dust bathe right next to her
 
Pomp, he's getting big!
 
Ayla (and in the background a not-so-lovely picture of Romeo)
 
And last of all, Georgia


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## Southern by choice (Feb 1, 2016)




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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 2, 2016)

The last few days Clover has been VERY hungry, and always wanting food. But today when I stanchion-trained her, I gave her the usual feed, except I added a teeny bit of grain. She didn't want any of her food, and didn't seem to be hungry. Could she have ketosis? Yesterday I gave her a little handful of Alfalfa pellets and grain too, and she loved it.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 2, 2016)

This is a good article... I am sure you have already seen it but thought I'd post anyway.

https://fiascofarm.com/goats/ketosis.htm


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 2, 2016)

I was just looking at that! 

The only symptoms she has is not eating. Although earlier this morning when I was doing chores, she was just as hungry as she usually is. Do you think I should give her Molasses/Corn Syrup?


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## Southern by choice (Feb 2, 2016)

But she is eating hay right? Just didn't want grain this am?
Everything has been normal til this?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 2, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> But she is eating hay right? Just didn't want grain this am?
> Everything has been normal til this?



I'll have to go out and watch her for a little while and see if she's eating hay. Yes, everything has been normal until this.


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## samssimonsays (Feb 2, 2016)

My favorite part of this time of year hahaha!


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 2, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> The last few days Clover has been VERY hungry, and always wanting food. But today when I stanchion-trained her, I gave her the usual feed, except I added a teeny bit of grain. She didn't want any of her food, and didn't seem to be hungry. Could she have ketosis? Yesterday I gave her a little handful of Alfalfa pellets and grain too, and she loved it.


How is she acting now? Just offer some Alfalfa pellets and see if she  will eat it. 
Have you taken her temp? Don't give any Molasses/Corn Syrup until you have taken her temp. If she has a high temp *don't* give any.
I know you just got her, have you had a fecal run on her to check for parasites? The stress of the move as well as being in advanced pregnancy can both cause a parasite bloom- that could be why she doesn't want to eat.
There are many things that will cause a goat to go off feed, so at this point it is hard to tell.
How is she acting? Is she sluggish, depressed, grinding her teeth etc.?
I don't like to rely on the FAMACHA, but how are her eyelids?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 2, 2016)

Well, now she seems fine. A few hours ago I fed her again (the normal ration, but with some grain), and she ate it all happily. I have not taken her temperature, and she wasn't acting off in any other way, and still isn't. It was raining hard most of the day, and I haven't seen her eat hay - I usually don't anyway - but she might be eating it at night when I lock her up in the goat house.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 2, 2016)

I kinda figured that was the case- @Goat Whisperer  is dead on though...


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 3, 2016)

Nothing has changed, and she's still acting normal. Thank you for your help @Southern by choice & @Goat Whisperer! 

Here are a couple pictures of Clover's dam, Clover, and I think her sibling, from when they were little. They were adorable!


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 3, 2016)

They are adorable! I can't wait to see what she has.

You probably already said it, but what type of buck bred her?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 3, 2016)

She was bred to an Alpine. Her father was a brownish/white Alpine like her mother, so it's interesting that her sibling was black/white.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 4, 2016)

Yesterday



Today


Yes, she was just about to poop in this picture.


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## animalmom (Feb 5, 2016)

@Goatgirl47, you think it was an editorial comment, that last picture?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 5, 2016)

animalmom said:


> @Goatgirl47, you think it was an editorial comment, that last picture?





Clover is still the same.  She was due yesterday.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 5, 2016)




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## animalmom (Feb 6, 2016)

I so understand that every thing happens in God's good time, but come on!  Enough of this shilly shalling!  Do you think it would help if you squeezed Clover, you know kind of pushing things in the right direction?  No?  Well, just a thought.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 6, 2016)

This morning Clover had some white mucous, and her vulva was a little more swollen then usual, but right now she is acting perfectly normal and grazing out in her pasture.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 8, 2016)

In case y'all were wondering, Clover is still pregnant.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 8, 2016)

Well, at least she is 1 day closer to kidding! Hate it when they have to make us crazy!

Are you basing her due day from day 145 or 150? Are you 100% sure she took on the first breeding?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 8, 2016)

The breeder we got her from said that she was due Feb. 4, and she didn't say if it was day 150 or 145. I can ask her though. 

This is her website, it shows her breeding list - although that doesn't really help - and the goat named 'Strawberry' is Clover.  http://www.serbinziegen.com/component/content/article/2-uncategorised/3-2015-breedings?Itemid=101


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 9, 2016)

And today...
 
 
@Goat Whisperer, Clover was put in with the buck on September 7th.


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## Latestarter (Feb 9, 2016)

That doesn't necessarily mean she was bred on 9/7... just means that's the first possibility.   Do you know how long she was in there with him (to get a kidding window)? Or does the breeder "know" what date she was actually mounted/bred? Just wish she'd go ahead and get to it already though!


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 9, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> That doesn't necessarily mean she was bred on 9/7... just means that's the first possibility.   Do you know how long she was in there with him (to get a kidding window)? Or does the breeder "know" what date she was actually mounted/bred? Just wish she'd go ahead and get to it already though!



Oh, sorry, I said it wrong - the breeder said that she 'bred Clover to Benjamin (the buck) on 9/7'.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 9, 2016)

Hate to say this but.....that would mean today is day 155. 

Is it possible that the date is wrong? Was she left with the buck? She may not have taken on the first breeding but took on the next cycle. You may want to message the breeder and ask if there is another possible date

I looked the farm up on FB and see some of the other does that were due around this same time have kidded. 

I have heard of alpines going a few day later then 155 but this seems odd. 

@babsbag, I know you have the alpines. Have you had a doe at day 155 look like this?


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## babsbag (Feb 9, 2016)

Shoot yeah. 161 is the record...or was it 163 ?   Either way it was past 155 by more than 1 or 2 days. As a matter of fact I always planned on 155 and they were never early until I met @Goat Whisperer and she mentioned that hers would go as early as 145.  My goats seemed to have listened to her and now 152 seems to be the norm.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 10, 2016)

I did ask the breeder when Clover was bred, and she was bred to the buck on 9/7. The breeder also said that she could go ten days early or ten days late.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 10, 2016)

BTW, right now I can't feel Clover's ligaments, and the area around her tail head is sunken in. Earlier this morning she was walking all around the pasture in and out of the woods, yelling, while the other goats as usual, were resting. Her udder seems a little bit tighter, too. Right now she wants to be alone. Should I lock her up?


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## Poka_Doodle (Feb 10, 2016)

Great. The waiting game is on now


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 10, 2016)

@Southern by choice @goatgurl @OneFineAcre @babsbag 
Personally Goatgirl, I think it sounds like she may be getting ready, so I would put her in a kidding stall if you have one!  I am fairly new to goats though, so hopefully some others can chime in! 
Congrats!!


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## Southern by choice (Feb 10, 2016)

I would put her in a kidding stall and watch her closely... keep an eye on her breathing and watch for 3-5 minutes to see if there are any contractions.
Have you seen any mucous yet?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 10, 2016)

I haven't seen any mucous yet today. I put her in the goat house (which is ready, and full of hay) and she lay down for a few minutes chewing her cud, then she got up, layed down again, and then got up again and went to the door and started pushing on it - because she wanted to get out. She's in the woods right now (still yelling) but I'll go out now and put her in the goat house.


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## Latestarter (Feb 10, 2016)

Sounds like you're getting close!  If you can be there with her, and the weather is nice, and she wants to be moving about, I'd keep an eye on her and let her stay out. If you see her starting to have real contractions, then confine her. Just MHO... so exciting!


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 10, 2016)

Sometimes its best to lock up a FF who is very anxious (sounds like Clover is) other times its best to let them stay out. Go with your gut. 

My doe in my avatar does best being penned up in a small area. She seems to want to be all over the place when she is in labor.

Good luck! I cannot wait to see the kids.


@babsbag I don't think I could handle one of my goats going that long  Hopefully our girl doesn't wait that long.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 10, 2016)

Right after I wrote my last post I went outside and locked Clover up in the goat house and sat down with her to watch. For a few minutes she kept trying to get the door open, but then she started the laying down and getting back up process. Around 3:10 she started having slight contractions every few minutes, and 45 minutes later, she had a her first kid! I stripped the birthing fluids from her nose, then let Clover clean her up. Four of my siblings came to see the first kid, and a few minutes later another water sack appeared, and then two little hooves! She had the next kid very quickly. I also cleaned her nose, and let Clover do the rest. She was a little smaller and weaker then the first one. Clover passed the placenta, and then ate it.   I made sure both got colostrum, and were warm and dry. 
They are both chocolate brown/white. And as you probably already know, twin doelings! 

Doeling #1 (Lulu)



 


 


 
Doeling #2 (Annie)


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 10, 2016)

Aww!! Congratulations!!


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 10, 2016)

How are they all doing?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 10, 2016)

I forgot to add, when Clover would start licking Annie, then Lulu would yell, 'Meeeeeeeeeee!' and then Clover would start licking her. She's so vocal already. 

@BlessedWithGoats, they are all doing well! I gave Clover some molasses water, and she drank it all (then I gave her more ).


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## luvmypets (Feb 10, 2016)

Congratulations! I'm surprised she had two in there


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 10, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> I forgot to add, when Clover would start licking Annie, then Lulu would yell, 'Meeeeeeeeeee!' and then Clover would start licking her. She's so vocal already.


 Aww!!



Goatgirl47 said:


> @BlessedWithGoats, they are all doing well! I gave Clover some molasses water, and she drank it all (then I gave her more ).


 Yay! Glad they're all well!  

You must be so excited!


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## Southern by choice (Feb 10, 2016)

congratulations 

Glad you listened to that little voice that thought hmmm should I put her up!


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 10, 2016)

Congrats!!!!!! 

Glad you got the noses cleared  

Looks like she is being a good momma! I'm surprised she had 2 in there! And DOES!!!! YAY!! 

I assume you will keep at least one? 

Glad your first kidding experience was a good one!


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## norseofcourse (Feb 10, 2016)

Awwwwww - congrats!!  And it's great you got to be there and all went well


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## Poka_Doodle (Feb 10, 2016)

Super exciting. Hopefully you will get does out of the other girls.


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## babsbag (Feb 10, 2016)

Aren't they just the cutest things. It is always nice when things work they way they are supposed to. Congratulations. Was Clover bred to an Alpine buck?


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## Ridgetop (Feb 10, 2016)

Congratulations!  Does are the best and on her first time to have 2 is terrific.


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## thailand (Feb 11, 2016)

Congratulations!!!!    

So very happy for you!  The babies are seriously beautiful.  Ohhhhh....can't wait for mine now!


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## sadieml (Feb 11, 2016)

Clover is such a beauty, and those doelings are gorgeous!!!  Congratulations, @Goatgirl47 , you did just right by her.  You let her roam awhile, and then penned her in time to get the kidding done indoors.  Awesome.  Your instinct was dead-on.  AND...we seem to be continuing with the heavy leaning toward DOELINGS!  That's the way, lots and lots of does!  WOW!  I hope they don't run out before my Jaeger gets around to planting his seed!  I get pick-of-the-litter(s) and I want doelings.  This is all sooo exciting.
Happy dance, everybody!!!  WHOOT, WHOOT!  WHOOT, WHOOT!

edit to add:  Don't know if this is gonna work or not, but I'm hoping to embed my favorite 30 seconds of this "happy dance":





Okay, it puts the whole video, so you can watch the whole thing or just from 1:34 to 2:04.


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## Latestarter (Feb 11, 2016)

YAY!!! That's AWE-some! Glad she was able to be out and about till right before the due time  Guess she's a "walk about". Maybe the walking around helped her get the kids positioned and ready to pop. You've got a good eye! So what are your plans for the two beautiful doelings? I hope you'll be keeping at least one!

Congrats!


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 11, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> Congrats!!!!!!
> 
> Glad you got the noses cleared
> 
> ...



Thanks! I'm so glad everything went well my first kidding too. 

I want to keep both, but my Mom probably won't let me, unless I sell another goat (or two).  We will see...





Latestarter said:


> YAY!!! That's AWE-some! Glad she was able to be out and about till right before the due time  Guess she's a "walk about". Maybe the walking around helped her get the kids positioned and ready to pop. You've got a good eye! So what are your plans for the two beautiful doelings? I hope you'll be keeping at least one!
> 
> Congrats!



Thank you! 

Some friends came over today and they said that sometime in the future they might want to get a doeling from us (for a milk goat, eventually). We will probably have to sell at least one of them, but I would love to keep both!  
In April we will have two more does kidding, and maybe I will want to keep a doeling from one of them, instead of keeping these two.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 11, 2016)

Congrats!  Both are cuties


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 11, 2016)

More pictures! 

I had to put them outside in an enclosure for a little bit while I cleaned out the goat house. They were already jumping around some.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 11, 2016)

Here are my questions:


At what age should we have them dis-budded?
When will they be old enough so that I can separate them from Clover and milk her?
I'm so used to cow's colostrum - which is very yellow - Clover's colostrum is white. Is that normal?
One more - when to wean them? I would like to keep them on Clover as long as possible.

Thank you...


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## Poka_Doodle (Feb 11, 2016)

So cute


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 11, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> Here are my questions:
> 
> 
> At what age should we have them dis-budded?
> ...



1. probably 7-10 days old- you don't want the horn to get to big
2. if I remember correctly, we gave them several weeks on the doe and as long as they were getting enough to eat and gaining weight, we then separated overnight and milked the doe in the morning only.  Our 1 doe let her kids nurse for 3-4 months.
3. With our doe's their colostrum wasn't very yellow- but thicker than regular milk.  I'm guessing each doe is different.


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## Ridgetop (Feb 11, 2016)

If you are raising them for milk, it is better to wait to cull until you can get them both in milk.  then pick the one with the best udder attachments and best milk.  Of course, you have to be able to let one go after raising it for 2 years!  If your mom won't let you keep them that long just pick your favorite.  I know you can't choose right now while they are so cute and new but you will develop a bigger attachment to one of them.  I love the brown with lots of white pattern - the other looks like a pure Toggenburg.  So adorable!  Our first lamb is starting to run and jump around playing and is soooo cute!  I wish the other lambs would hurry up and get here - I love to watch tiny kids and lambs playing with each other.  We used to put several large pieces of tree trunks in their pen and the kids would play King of the Castle and knock each other off!


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## Latestarter (Feb 11, 2016)

As for weaning, from all that I've read here, for the smaller breeds most start @6-8 weeks, for larger breeds some wean @8 weeks, others wait till 12-16 weeks. some just let the doe wean the kids on her own schedule. I believe pretty much once they start eating the hay on a more or less regular basis (fully developed rumen) it's up to you.


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## Ridgetop (Feb 11, 2016)

The colostrum is sticky and while not too yellow, it does have a slight tinge to it.  I used to wait about a week before using the milk for the house to make sure that it was all out of the milk we wanted to drink.  Some people feel that after the first 24 hours there is no colostrum left, but I used to heat treat the first 48 hours for the babies.  I froze a lot so I would have plenty for the newborns. 

If you want the milk for the house, how much do you need?  Are you milking in the am and pm or only once a day?  Are you planning to bottle feed the kids?  If you leave the kids on until they start to eat hay, they will be starting the weaning process and her milk yield will start to decrease.  If you take them away before 3 months you will have to give them a bottle - 1 quart apiece  am and pm.  We never let our kids nurse, and wanted maximum yield so we just bottle fed.  My friend would separate the kids at night, milk at in the am and turn the kids in with the doe for the day after milking.  You could reverse that too, but if she is a first freshener you will not be getting more than about a quart or so at each milking so if she is your only source of milk, you might want to consider milking 2x a day to keep her production up starting when the kids are 2 months.  You might have to supplement the kids for a month if you want goat milk for the house.  Otherwise you can start milking when they are 3 months, separate them completely, and milk 2x a day for  maximum production.  Depending on her mother and bloodlines, you will get as little as 1 quart or as much as 1 1/2  quarts in a day per milking.  She will produce more milk with each consecutive kidding until she is in her prime around 4-6 years old.  Then her lactation may start to drop a little.  This is based on multiple kids - singles can lower the yield.  You can weigh the milk and feed her 1 pound of grain for each pound of milk she produces.  a gallon of milk weigh 8 lbs.  Weighing is better than measuring since milk weighs differently depending on the percentage of butterfat in it.  Butterfat varies depending on time closest to kidding, genetics, and other factors.  If Clover's breeder kept milk records, you should ask for a copy of her mom's milk records and her sire's mom's milk records and that will help you manage her lactation.  If she is a very heavy producer from heavy production lines, you want to watch her for milk fever problems in future kiddings. 

For disbudding, I liked to do it as soon as I can feel a good horn bud.  Wait too late and you have a greater chance of scurs, too soon and it is harder to find the bud.  Alpines usually grow their horns sooner than Nubians and bucks sooner than does, so I would keep checking and do it at about 7-10 days plus like Hens and Roos said.  Be sure you get all the bud so it won't scur.  I shave the horn bud first because the smell of burned hair is really gross.  It also helps to find the bud easier.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 11, 2016)

We do want the milk for us, but we don't need a whole lot of milk because we have milk cows, and they give us most of what we need.  I would like to milk in the mornings, once a day, but maybe when the doelings get bigger I'll milk twice a day. I would like the kids to be with their Momma all day long until I switch to TAD milking. 

I was wondering about that - how I can't feel the kids horn buds - I always can with calves if they are horned, right after they are born.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 11, 2016)

babsbag said:


> Aren't they just the cutest things. It is always nice when things work they way they are supposed to. Congratulations. Was Clover bred to an Alpine buck?



Yes.


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## babsbag (Feb 11, 2016)

I sell my Alpines at 8 weeks and they are weaned at that point. If I keep one mom may let it nurse until it is a year old (or more) so you have to watch that. I start separating them at night at 2 weeks of age and milk once a day in the mornings. 

As far as the horn buds, you can usually feel them at about 2 or 3 days. The larger breed goats usually have to be done earlier, and my experience is that 10 days is almost too late, I usually shoot for about 7 days. Bucks are worse, some are born with horn buds...seriously. 

The reason I asked about the buck being Alpine as one doeling looks like a Togg. If they are registered with ADGA any color is ok in an alpine, EXCEPT  the Togg brown and solid white.  Brown with white patches is ok. Doesn't mean she won't be a great goat, just means that she will never win in a show ring.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 11, 2016)

I also thought she looked like a Toggenburg. It doesn't matter though, at least I won't be showing her.


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## babsbag (Feb 11, 2016)

Their colors can change too. I have a doe that is registered as Alpine but does have some Togg in her. When she was a kid she looked like a Togg and I registered her as Experimental since she didn't meet the color standard. Now, 3 years later she is no longer Togg brown, more brown/gray.  I love the Togg colors though.


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## Ferguson K (Feb 11, 2016)

I just found this thread. Congratulations on two beautiful does! Mom looks proud.


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## Ridgetop (Feb 13, 2016)

Horn buds are slower to emerge in doe kids than in bucklings.  The nice thing about goat milk is that there are almost no human disease carried in it so you don't have to pasteurize it for human consumption, and it is naturally homogenized.  That was annoying when we wanted cream for ice cream of course since you have to use a mechanical separator to separate goat milk.  Since  you don't need the milk, you can let the kids nurse for 3 months.  After that they will be eating hay and forage (if you have pasture) and Clover's milk will start to dry up.  If you want maximum yield you need to milk 2x a day by then, but since you don't need the milk you have the option of letting her nurse and wean the kids naturally, then dry up, or like I say start milking her at around 3 months. It is your choice as to how much work you want to do.  If you have milk cows you already know how much work dairy animals take!

What kind of cows do you have?


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## Southern by choice (Feb 13, 2016)

Ridgetop said:


> The nice thing about goat milk is that there are almost no human disease carried in it so you don't have to pasteurize it for human consumption, and it is naturally homogenized.



This is not true. Sadly this is part of the raw milk hype... Raw milk is great but everyone should be educated on the risks as well. 
The other issue is that things like e-coli are not the same e-coli's that your was in your grand-daddy's day... these are far more resistant to treatment because of mutation.
Leading to a very bad strain that can cause Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome (HUS)


The following are zoonotic and transmission can be through raw milk.
Johnes (Mycobacterium) avium subsp. Paratuberculosis (MAP)
CL- studies still undecided but related to MAP
Brucellosis
Listeriosis
Toxoplasmosis

MAP disease is NOT killed through Pasteurization. 
There are other  illnesses that can be passed through the milk if animal is infected, like E-coli, Camphlobactor


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## Ridgetop (Feb 13, 2016)

This is interesting since some of these diseases I only know from my goat medical book.  The only one I dealt with was CAE.  We raised our children on unpasteurized goat milk for 18 years with no problems.  the only reason we pasteurized was for CAE in the goat kids.  What is MAP?  We did experience E. Coli in some calves and had to stop bringing them in for 6 months after we sanitized the calf hutches and the ground under them so we could be sure the organisms were killed.  This was about 15 years ago.  The calves were never around the goat pens or milking areas though and were bottle fed.  New diseases are migrating all across the globe and places that never had them are being introduced to them now.  Just look at that 
Zika disease.  It is related to Dengue which is a killer from Africa.  Originally they said Zika was not dangerous except to pregnant women but now I just saw that several people have died and almost 100 have been hospitalized in Venezuela with complications from Zika.  Scary!


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 13, 2016)

Ridgetop said:


> What is MAP?



Johnes (Mycobacterium) avium subsp. Paratuberculosis (MAP)
In short its called Johnes. I'm surprised you aren't familiar with it because its a big cattle disease. 

http://www.johnes.org/


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## babsbag (Feb 14, 2016)

Brucellosis (Undulant fever) has been around in milk for a very long time; it was one of the main diseases that was killed with the invention of pasteurization by Louie Pasteur. Bovine tuberculosis is another raw milk disease that is killed by pasteurization. Goats in a commercial dairy are tested for both of these diseases and must be put down if they test positive. Even though the milk is pasteurized that isn't enough.

I personally drink raw milk from my goats but I never give it to anyone else and I pasteurize all milk that is used for cheese if anyone else is going to taste it. If I had children at home I would never give them raw milk, not worth the risk. What we can't see can hurt us.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 15, 2016)

I can feel Lulu and Annie's horn buds now. 

They drive me crazy by climbing up on ant hills and/or laying down on them.  I have been letting them out with the other goats (only under my supervision) and they leave them (the kids) alone. 

How do I know they are getting enough milk? They both seem happy and healthy (jumping, playing, etc.). Also, it is normal for them to nurse every 5-10 minutes, right?



Ridgetop said:


> Horn buds are slower to emerge in doe kids than in bucklings.  The nice thing about goat milk is that there are almost no human disease carried in it so you don't have to pasteurize it for human consumption, and it is naturally homogenized.  That was annoying when we wanted cream for ice cream of course since you have to use a mechanical separator to separate goat milk.  Since  you don't need the milk, you can let the kids nurse for 3 months.  After that they will be eating hay and forage (if you have pasture) and Clover's milk will start to dry up.  If you want maximum yield you need to milk 2x a day by then, but since you don't need the milk you have the option of letting her nurse and wean the kids naturally, then dry up, or like I say start milking her at around 3 months. It is your choice as to how much work you want to do.  If you have milk cows you already know how much work dairy animals take!
> 
> What kind of cows do you have?



We have mostly crosses. Here are our cows names and breeds (and ages):

Sasha - 1/2 Normande 1/2 Jersey, almost five years old, I think
Candy - 1/2 Simmental 1/2 Brown Swiss, three years old
Violet - Purebred Dutch Belted, just turned three years old
Ruby - 3/4 Jersey 1/4 Normande, almost three, I think
Piper - 1/2 Brown Swiss 1/2 Jersey, thirteen months old
Frankie - PB Dutch Belted, almost one year old
Georgia - 7/8 Jersey 1/8 Normande, ten months old
& Linus - 1/2 Jersey 1/4 Brown Swiss 1/4 Simmental, almost nine months old

We milk the first four.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 15, 2016)

If they are acting normal (sounds like they are) and their bellies seem full & aren't constantly crying they should be getting enough.
If you are worried about her milk, squeeze a few squirts into a bowl and make sure it looks ok & her udder isn't congested.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 16, 2016)

Ok, thanks. Her milk looks normal. 

Here are a few pictures from today. The annoying buck (Romeo) was rubbing on my legs the whole time I was taking them. 

Lulu




Annie



These show their difference in height






I love this little face!









Did I post too many pictures?


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## Ferguson K (Feb 16, 2016)

No such thing as to many pictures!!!


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## Latestarter (Feb 16, 2016)

No such thing as "too many pictures!" Silly girl! They are beautiful! I hope you get to keep one. I see a lot of leaf buds on those trees/bushes! Must be nice to have spring coming.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 16, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> No such thing as "too many pictures!" Silly girl! They are beautiful! I hope you get to keep one. I see a lot of leaf buds on those trees/bushes! Must be nice to have spring coming.



Thanks! 

Once the leaf buds get a little bigger, they won't be there at all.


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## Ridgetop (Feb 16, 2016)

Same here - never too many pix! LOL


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## sadieml (Feb 16, 2016)

@Goatgirl47 -  As my children would be quick to inform you, there are certain words which cannot properly be used together in the English language.  Some of those combinations include the words "too many or too much"  and other words like "cheese, pizza, chocolate, and pictures".  As a home-schooling Mommy, I feel it is my duty to pass on this little tidbit of knowledge.

ps -  Please, don't be offended.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 16, 2016)

LOL @ too many pics! I didn't know there was such a thing 

They are sooooooooo adorable! 

You need to teach Romeo some manners


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 16, 2016)

Too many pics? Certainly not!  
So cute!! Thanks for sharing!!


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## Poka_Doodle (Feb 16, 2016)

Agreed, they are super cute. I love kid pictures


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 17, 2016)

Thank y'all! They are both so sweet.

If we can sell Romeo, I was thinking maybe I will be able to keep Lulu and Annie.  Or at least one of them. We need to grow our herd! 

So I can feel their horn buds, but does that mean they need to be dis-budded in the next few days? Sorry if you already made that clear...


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2016)

If you can feel the buds  then it is getting close. With standard sized goats that are doelings I go with no more than 10 days. If they are bucklings it is usually about 7 days. The boys can grow FAST and the base of the horn bud can get too big for the tip on most of the burners.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 18, 2016)

So, the breeder I got Clover from said that I needed to worm her the day she kidded, but I had no wormer (except for Diatomaceous Earth, will that work?), and I forgot. *face palm*  She also said Clover needed to be wormed ten days after she kidded. Can I use Diatomaceous Earth? Or what other natural dewormer do you recommend? 

Lulu is a little friendlier then Annie, although they both will run up to and meh when they see you.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 18, 2016)

Can you run a fecal on her first?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 18, 2016)

Run a fecal? I have never done that.


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## babsbag (Feb 18, 2016)

Those babies are just tooo cute, I want to squeeze them. Are you sure there isn't a Togg in the wood pile somewhere? Brown is just not an alpine color but oh so cute.  

I'll leave the fecal to @Goat Whisperer as I just don't have to deal with worms on my farm. I am SO happy that something good comes of living in a drought.  Also I was told that Oak leaves and acorns are a natural wormer too and that is about the only browse my girls get. I usually worm once a year with Ivermectin but this year I didn't even do that. Come spring and fresh grass I will spot check a few, but doubt I will find anything. 

How do Clover's eyelids look? Are they nice and pink?  I can't speak to using DE, no experience at all.


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## Latestarter (Feb 18, 2016)

Cute, Cute, Cute kids! I don't think you should worm just because some one said/says to, without first finding out if it's even needed. Follow Clover around with a small collection utensil so when she poops, you can catch some in said utensil. Then do the same for each kid. Then take samples to your vet ASAP (refrigerate if you can't go immediately) so he/she (or designated lab technician) can check for worms and recommend a treatment if needed for whatever type worm may be present. 

Alternately, you can buy a microscope, slides, slide medium, and an illustrated guide and learn to do your own fecals. Actually, @Southern by choice has done several excellent articles here on the site on pretty much all aspects of this.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 18, 2016)

Like LS said, you will need to grab some berries and have a vet or a lab run the fecal. Make sure the vet knows goats and see if you can get a McMasters decal test. Doing this will give you the actual count.

She probably will need wormed with the stress of the move as well as kidding.

With the DE, I know some swear by it  however these are usually people who don't have much knowledge on parasites. Not trying to put anyone down on this forum or anywhere else. I have been to many farms who will go on and on about how great the DE is, how they never use the nasty chemical dewormers..... Up until I grab a sample and find that the animal has a sky high load and they have white eyelids.

I think the issue is that so many get caught up in this idea of using the DE that they never look at the facts. They never run a fecal after to see if there is a reduction.
Same goes with the herbal treatments.

Many will say they gave it and then didn't see worms in the poo, this is an unreliable method as you simply cannot see what they truly have with the naked eye.

At this point the kids are to young to really have anything so you can wait with them. Goat kids differ from puppies in that area.


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## Latestarter (Feb 18, 2016)

Whew! THANK you for your comments about DE... It is ground up diatoms, prehistoric shell fossils.

It is VERY bad for you to breath... think powdered glass. It works on DRY insects as it sucks the moisture out of them causing death. It does NOT do this in any kind of wet or moist situation. Moisture defeats its purpose entirely. Putting it in feed (for the most part where it's used) is to kill any pests that might get in and eat/defecate in the feed prior to use. You can "dust bathe" chickens and livestock to help kill lice or mites, but as I said, it's VERY bad to breathe, and when chickens dust bathe, they make quite a dust cloud, that they are breathing...

Taken internally, you'd need quite a lot and it wouldn't kill the internal parasites but more like (maybe) "scrape them" off their attachment. If they are able to re-attach before being evacuated, all you will have done is cause some internal bleeding where the wound is.

If you want to use it and believe in it, more power to you. It has some uses, but is being touted for others that just don't make sense.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 18, 2016)

There are effective "natural" or holistic remedies.

BUT I too would like to add to the discussion...

Sadly many using these programs do NOT do any fecal analysis.
A goat may do fine on a particular program for years but then something changes ... those changes could be an excessively hot/humid climate with months of rain  or snow etc... and suddenly there is a parasitic explosion. Stress related- such as a move, kidding - pregnancy hormones increase parasitic reproduction. This is why many do a deworming 30 days prior to kidding. The kidding process takes a great deal out of the doe and now the doe is in lactation which requires a great deal from her body. With a high number of parasites this just wears the doe down... effects lactation as well as overall health.
The herbals may not be enough and it is wise to know when a chemical anthelmintic (dewormer) is necessary.

Sadly some absolutely refuse and their animal suffers. 

After visiting so many farms and running fecals we (my partner- Goat Whisperer) have found the same thing over and over. Shocked owners that have serious parasite infestations and they were kind of "blinded" by it. I think sometimes they are not watching and really being realistic because in the back of their mind they are giving this herbal faithfully. Some just go into total denial or up their herbals... sorry but a 1600-2200 EPG Count says your herbal ain't working.

I have watched many go the natural approach to all kinds of treatments... seen too many goats die in the process. One of our vets does a great deal of holistic care for goats but this same vet always says the same thing... if you own goats and absolutely refuse to treat your goat with an anti-biotic or a dewormer or any other drug that may be necessary to save it's life DON'T OWN GOATS! 

We too prefer to do as little chemical intervention as we can and herbals etc are IMO great just don't rule out the other as at some point it may be necessary. Good understanding of FAMACHA as well as fecal analysis is really important. Also managing your property... not all can do pasture rotation so understanding how to work your land is key.

Below is a link to a very good resource for holistic products! 

http://landofhavilahfarm.com/loh/natural-raising/my-holistic-methods/herbal-parasite-management/


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 19, 2016)

@Southern by choice, @Goat Whisperer & @Latestarter - I am not bent on treating my goats' worms with natural remedies. If it's necessary, then I will use chemical dewormer. 

This is a goat dewormer I've used before with my goats when I saw worms in their poop (I know it's not natural ): 

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-goat-dewormer-3-lb?cm_vc=-10005 

@babsbag, Clover was dark brown like Lulu & Annie when she was a kid, and then she lightened up a lot as she got older. So you're saying that even as kids Alpine's aren't that color brown? 

And we do have a microscope and slides...


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## babsbag (Feb 19, 2016)

They can be brown and white, like this. 



But this one is really a broken Chamoisee. They can also be any color Pied or spotted.  I have some brown and white does in my herd, but I also have Togg 3 generations back so it never surprises me. 

ADGA tells me that an Alpine can be any color pattern EXCEPT solid white or Togg brown, which is solid brown with the white ears, face strips, rump patch, legs. 

So your one little girl is Pied and the other ??? But it doesn't matter unless you are showing or selling for breeding. If you try to register her you may want to talk to ADGA and ask them, maybe she should be registered as recorded grade.  But then her future offspring would be Grade as well, no matter their color. 

I am just curious where the color came from. If you have her papers have you looked at her pedigree? Is there a Togg back there somewhere?  

They are still stinkin' adorable but I have a soft spot for baby Toggs...their milk...not quite so much.


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## babsbag (Feb 19, 2016)

Just for the record, there is a difference between swimming pool filter DE and food grade DE. Not sure about the difference in breathing the stuff but if you ever do use it on around the animals make sure you don't get the stuff from the pool shop; go to a feed store or health food store.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 19, 2016)

I can ask the breeder if there is any possible way they are part Toggenburg. I didn't see any Toggs around her place though. 
I like the heart on that Alpines side! Is she (or he, I can't really tell from the picture ) yours?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 19, 2016)

Toggenburg goat milk doesn't taste very good?


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## babsbag (Feb 19, 2016)

No, not mine, I copied it from a web site that shows the colors of Alpines. 

You wouldn't see Toggs around my place either. The first goats I bought 7 years ago were 25% Togg. Their offspring still has the brown show up frequently after all these generations. I haven't seen one solid like your little girl in a long time, but the Pied brown and white is common. 

You can check her pedigree on ADGA website, it will show you breeds.


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## babsbag (Feb 19, 2016)

My Alpine Togg x has great milk. My purebred Togg (she died last year ) had horrible milk. It tasted "goatie" all of the time and that is a common complaint with Togg milk.  I have a 50/50 alpine togg doe that will freshen here pretty soon so we will see what her milk tastes like.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 19, 2016)

I'd like to see some pictures of your Alpines.   Your profile picture is of an Alpine, right?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 19, 2016)

My little sister (four) has been waiting for me to put kid collars on Lulu & Annie since they were born, and today I finally did. Here are the pictures (don't worry, I took the collars off before I went inside. I know that kid + collar = danger).


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## Latestarter (Feb 19, 2016)

Good gosh! Look how BIG they've already grown! They're really beautiful! Man... I better not ever let my goats have kids... There's no way I'd ever want to let any of them go! I'm such a sucker for animals and especially babies... Jeeze.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 19, 2016)

They are so stinkin' cute!


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## Southern by choice (Feb 19, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Good gosh! Look how BIG they've already grown! They're really beautiful! Man... I better not ever let my goats have kids... There's no way I'd ever want to let any of them go! I'm such a sucker for animals and especially babies... Jeeze.



Oh LS! You are so sunk.... cuz there is just nothin' cuter than baby goats! The funny thing is everyone always keeps there first kids because they can't part with them. LOL eventually though after more kids come and you start selecting by your desired criteria then usually those first kids find there way to new homes.


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## sadieml (Feb 21, 2016)

These babies are too cute for words.  I'm with @Latestarter it's gonna be really hard to part with any of the many babies we hope to start having in the near future.  Hoping for first babies by fall, but we'll see.  I am a sucker for babies, and everyone knows goatie babies are the cutest.

On the worming front, I do use DE (food grade, NEVER the pool stuff-it is FATAL if inhaled), and I think it's great, though admittedly it is EARLY for me to give a true ruling.  However, even if one is fairly certain parasites are under control, fecals are a MUST.  I have not done fecals on my boys, yet, only because they are just 6 mos and have shown no signs. Before breeding begins in March, they WILL have fecals run and even though I prefer natural stuff to chemicals, I am no fool.  Sometimes, chemicals are a must.  With DH's MS, my hypothyroidism, diabetes, rheumatoid AND osteo- arthritis, and bursitis, UGH, I certainly recognize the importance of BOTH the natural and the chemical.  No one should be so stubborn as to endanger himself or his animals JUST for the sake of keeping things all natural.  Remember, apparently Luke, the disciple, was a doctor.  I never heard of Jesus telling him not to continue practicing medicine.  He simply taught him ANOTHER way to heal.  I believe one of Jesus' primary teachings was moderation in all things, there is a time and a place for almost everything.  Sometimes the natural, sometimes the miraculous.  We should always listen to WISDOM.

Sorry for the soapbox. 

edited to correct typo:  "to" changed to "too"  This is one of my pet peeves.  Sorry all.

p.s. -  @Southern by choice & @Goat Whisperer, I am certain of worming efficacy of DE on non-ruminants (i.e. - dogs and cats) and appreciate the seeming improvement in skin & hair health in all pets, but do not mean to imply worm-free goaties.  As I said, I will be doing fecals in March (timing is a budget thing). If necessary, I will use wormers as suggested by the vet, I do not intend to turn a blind eye to worm problems whether or not I use DE or anything else.  Our babies are too important.  I am fully prepared to believe that DE is not effective as a wormer in ruminants, since there seems to be little or no supporting evidence.  That doesn't mean I'm done with it altogether, I like it for other stuff (mostly environmental pests).


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 21, 2016)

sadieml said:


> These babies are to cute for words.  I'm with @Latestarter it's gonna be really hard to part with any of the many babies we hope to start having in the near future.  Hoping for first babies by fall, but we'll see.  I am a sucker for babies, and everyone knows goatie babies are the cutest.
> 
> On the worming front, I do use DE (food grade, NEVER the pool stuff-it is FATAL if inhaled), and I think it's great, though admittedly it is EARLY for me to give a true ruling.  However, even if one is fairly certain parasites are under control, fecals are a MUST.  I have not done fecals on my boys, yet, only because they are just 6 mos and have shown no signs. Before breeding begins in March, they WILL have fecals run and even though I prefer natural stuff to chemicals, I am no fool.  Sometimes, chemicals are a must.  With DH's MS, my hypothyroidism, diabetes, rheumatoid AND osteo- arthritis, and bursitis, UGH, I certainly recognize the importance of BOTH the natural and the chemical.  No one should be so stubborn as to endanger himself or his animals JUST for the sake of keeping things all natural.  Remember, apparently Luke, the disciple, was a doctor.  I never heard of Jesus telling him not to continue practicing medicine.  He simply taught him ANOTHER way to heal.  I believe one of Jesus' primary teachings was moderation in all things, there is a time and a place for almost everything.  Sometimes the natural, sometimes the miraculous.  We should always listen to WISDOM.
> 
> Sorry for the soapbox.



How do you know if the DE works if you are not getting fecal egg counts? Have you seen this thread? I have seen too many goats die or severely anemic because people use the DE, it is not a dewormer. There are other ways to help with parasites but unfortunately DE is not one of them. 

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/diatomaceous-earth-parasite-control.32666/


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## Southern by choice (Feb 21, 2016)

sadieml said:


> These babies are to cute for words.  I'm with @Latestarter it's gonna be really hard to part with any of the many babies we hope to start having in the near future.  Hoping for first babies by fall, but we'll see.  I am a sucker for babies, and everyone knows goatie babies are the cutest.
> 
> On the worming front, I do use DE (food grade, NEVER the pool stuff-it is FATAL if inhaled), and I think it's great, though admittedly it is EARLY for me to give a true ruling.  However, even if one is fairly certain parasites are under control, fecals are a MUST.  I have not done fecals on my boys, yet, only because they are just 6 mos and have shown no signs. Before breeding begins in March, they WILL have fecals run and even though I prefer natural stuff to chemicals, I am no fool.  Sometimes, chemicals are a must.  With DH's MS, my hypothyroidism, diabetes, rheumatoid AND osteo- arthritis, and bursitis, UGH, I certainly recognize the importance of BOTH the natural and the chemical.  No one should be so stubborn as to endanger himself or his animals JUST for the sake of keeping things all natural.  Remember, apparently Luke, the disciple, was a doctor.  I never heard of Jesus telling him not to continue practicing medicine.  He simply taught him ANOTHER way to heal.  I believe one of Jesus' primary teachings was moderation in all things, there is a time and a place for almost everything.  Sometimes the natural, sometimes the miraculous.  We should always listen to WISDOM.
> 
> Sorry for the soapbox.



I believe in the word and there are many properties in nature that heal, strengthen , and bring health. On the flip side the data is not there for DE. There are many "natural" remedies that can actually be far more toxic than synthetic versions.

Permethrin and Pyrethrin is one example.
Neem Oil is another... can cause infertility.
Clove Oil can be toxic and deadly and there is a small margin of error.

Not sure if you saw this or not... I posted it last night. Our extension services have been getting a lot of calls about the use of DE. They posted this recent article.
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/diatomaceous-earth-parasite-control.32666/


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 25, 2016)

I milked Clover for the first time this morning. 

Yesterday the doelings were two weeks old, and so last night I locked them up as usual except without Clover. 
Clover went around and around and around and around and around and around and around and around (too many arounds? ) the goat house for a little while mawing for them (Lulu and Annie were mehing too, but not as much), but then I went inside our house, so I don't know how long it took for her to settle down. 
This morning when I milked her I hobbled her legs with a sheep rope halter in case she kicked or put her hoof in the milk bucket.  She did neither, and stayed still while I cleaned her teats and when I milked her she didn't lift a leg, but she did squat slightly.

I got almost two cups from her, but I didn't milk her out completely, I wanted to leave some for her kids.  And she wasn't letting down very well after that (I know that cows can hold up milk, but can goats?).

Lulu and Annie are scheduled to be dis-budded on Saturday. Yes, they will be 17 days old, but the vet said it's fine as long as the horn buds haven't broken through the skin yet. What do y'all think?


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## Southern by choice (Feb 25, 2016)

Aw Clover was a good girl!  Many goats squat a little and spread... it is funny , those are the ones that try to help and make it easy for you to milk.  I love goats that help out.

Yes, goats can also hold their milk. Some are real bratty too.

17 days wow.... breaking through means it has already attached,  but they can attach well before they broke through.
to disbud means to burn the bud before it attaches.


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## norseofcourse (Feb 25, 2016)

Yay on the first milking success!


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 25, 2016)

Aww, good girl Clover!


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 26, 2016)

This morning I got 2 1/3 cups of milk from Clover.  I know it's not that much, but it's more then I got yesterday! 

I hobbled her again today, but apparently it didn't work that well as she almost got her dirty hoof in the bucket.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 26, 2016)

So I just ran a fecal on Clover, and I can see an abundance of parasite(?) eggs in the sample.  Too many for me to count. I should worm her now, right? I have a natural wormer called Molly's Herbal Wormer, or something like that.  I don't have anything else at the moment...

Also, do y'all know of any wormer that I can use in pregnant goats (Molly's HW isn't for use in pregnant goats)?

Thank you...


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## samssimonsays (Feb 26, 2016)

I know that DE is not shown to work in goats but I usually keep it in their water 1-2 weeks out of the month, it helps keep parasites out of their water bucket anyways. I also use a different wormer I forgot the name... And there is a deworming feed that I know of. Not sure what other's thoughts are on it but it is specifically for goats.... I used it with my first two with success? No idea about it being ok for pregnant or nursing does. I also have an herbal from Firmeadows for worming, immune system and overall health that they get through really cold temps and throughout summer.


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 26, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> So I just ran a fecal on Clover, and I can see an abundance of parasite(?) eggs in the sample.  Too many for me to count. I should worm her now, right? I have a natural wormer called Molly's Herbal Wormer, or something like that.  I don't have anything else at the moment...
> 
> Also, do y'all know of any wormer that I can use in pregnant goats (Molly's HW isn't for use in pregnant goats)?
> 
> Thank you...


Did you run the fecal  or did a vet? 
I'm asking because many that are new to running fecals often mistake eggs for air bubbles, debris, etc. 

What type of eggs did it look like?

Didn't have time to read the article, but there is a pic that shows an air bubble and a parasite egg.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 26, 2016)

I did the fecal - it was my first time too. I'm the eggs weren't bubbles, I saw bubbles near them though.

I'll try to find a picture of what they looked like.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 26, 2016)

They looked similar to this:
x5492e06.jpg


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 27, 2016)

Lulu and Annie were dis-budded today! They look so funny.


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## sadieml (Feb 28, 2016)

Aww...they are so adoe-able.  (Sorry for the lousy pun.)


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