# Horns or no horns?



## Straw Hat Kikos (Aug 30, 2012)

Do you like horns or dislike horns? Do you have a reason why you like or dislike them?


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## BrownSheep (Aug 30, 2012)

Admittedly Im talking sheep where more often then not the horns curl, but with our rams 2/3 are horns. The horns work kind of like a handle making them easier and in some ways safer to handle. I don't think horns would bug me in goats.


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## Catahoula (Aug 30, 2012)

I don't mind horns when I see them on goats, but I don't want horns on my goats. Sometimes I wish it didn't matter...because that would give me more options to get the goats I like.


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## jodief100 (Aug 30, 2012)

I like horns.  It helps the goats keep cool and provides a convenient handle.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 30, 2012)

I don't like horns. They always seem to get in the way. I had a doe with horns and I was accidently getting hit with them when she moved her head. She also used them on the other goats.


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## DonnaBelle (Aug 30, 2012)

My experience is that even the most docile tame goat will occasionally give you a head swipe.

I know that if my Lenora had horns I would have been knocked koo koo a couple of times.

I just feel safer without the horns.

I can see where the horns would be convenient handles, but we put the heavy duty plastic breakaway chains on ours, we can handle them but if they get hooked on a branch the weak link breaks.

Just my humble opinion.....

DonnaBelle


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## SkyWarrior (Aug 30, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> Do you like horns or dislike horns? Do you have a reason why you like or dislike them?
> 
> 
> *Yep. I'm testing my poll abilities. lol*


Dislike.  My sweet girl, Annie, nearly poked my eye out with her affections.  No horns and I wouldn't be contemplating a possible black eye.  

Yes, they're pretty.  Yes, they can serve as protection.  But my vote is no.  They are dangerous.


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## SkyWarrior (Aug 30, 2012)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> My experience is that even the most docile tame goat will occasionally give you a head swipe.
> 
> I know that if my Lenora had horns I would have been knocked koo koo a couple of times.
> 
> ...


I personally think that handling a goat by the horns causes pain to the goat.  The reason is that those goats I have tried to handle with their horns acted in pain.  It wasn't a "don't touch me,"  it was a "don't do that, it HURTS!"  So, I don't even touch a goat's horns, except very lightly.  So, I think they are a bad idea as handles.  JMO.


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## elevan (Aug 30, 2012)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> I like horns.  It helps the goats keep cool and provides a convenient handle.


x2


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## CochinBrahmaLover=) (Aug 31, 2012)

I like horns, but this may change as I get a goat with horns


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 31, 2012)

elevan said:
			
		

> jodief100 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


x3


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## HankTheTank (Aug 31, 2012)

I like the way they look, especially the ones that curl or twist! But since I've never had a horned goat (while I was old enough to really remember it) I can't really say whether or not I like them.


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## Godsgrl (Aug 31, 2012)

After getting attacked by a horned goat, have to say I don't like them one bit.


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## Tmaxson (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm new to goats, only had them for one year but all my goats have horns and I'm also a bit of a naturalist.  I like them to be the way God made them.  Although I can understand why people would want to remove them from the larger goats because they do hurt if they decide to use them on you.  All my goats are small and I can handle them but a 200lb big boy coming at you with those things could get pretty scarry.


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## larryj57 (Aug 31, 2012)

I like horns, we have Boer goats and to me a Boer without horns, just doesn't look like a Boer.


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## boothcreek (Aug 31, 2012)

I like horns, not just good handles but also good for fending them off since you got something solid to grab onto and steer the head into a different direction(or twist and lay them down all together- had to do that with my wethers a few times cause they kept trying to climb up me and kneeing them in the gut didnt work at all, laid them down a few times and the lesson finally stuck).

Got one of my knees busted against a wall by a dehorned goat since I had nothin to grab to keep it off me, ears are just too slippery to pull a mean goat off of you and keep at arms lenght.

You dont get hurt by horns if you are smart about it(or common sense I guess, its like people around you better use common sense if you have a board on your shoulder so they dont get knocked outta their socks when you turn unexpectedly) - like dont stand over a goat with horns that point up, if it gets spooked or throws its head up for any other reason you getting stabbed is your own stupidity for not paying attention and thinking ahead. When I have to forcibly carry my wethers somewhere I make sure no part of me is in the line of fire at any given time in case he jerks his head up or back(usually for balance, not agression but hurts all the same no matter which). 

Same goes for my sheep, if I carry a ram lamb and he is struggeling and just throwing his head every which way(at that age horns point up usually) I just handle them with their head either crushed to me or at an angle where he wont accidentally hit me. 
The big boys the horns are great to move them over, since they dont like them touched other then their headbashing, so they step out of my personal space really easily.


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## Stacykins (Aug 31, 2012)

I don't like horns because a combination of a horned goat and my error (leaving on a collar) resulted in the death of another goat 

So no more horns, no more collars.


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## Roving Jacobs (Aug 31, 2012)

I started with Jacob sheep, the more horns the better 

I have some polled sheep now and they are so much harder to catch and handle. None of the Angora goats I have (or the sheep) have ever seemed to find being handled by the horns painful. They don't like it if you are taking them some place they don't want to go but it really doesn't seem to hurt them at all.


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## LadyIsabelle2011 (Aug 31, 2012)

Horns or without horns, as long as it's a good goat and an even temper I don't really mind  ...Of course if your talking about a mean ol' goat who would try to hook you or hurt you there is where I draw the line :/


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 31, 2012)

No Horns!

The neighbors goat...most of our first real interactions with goats were with the neighbors nubian with horns....she is rotten! She slams her owners leg when she is in heat or mad, or just for fun. And she leaves huge bruises!  She also threatens the old horses she lives with sometimes, by rearing up and almost slamming their legs! And she got stuck in the fence by her horns in the heat one day and was likely there for hours.......we do get over 100 sometimes.

Our goats are dehorned and I really prefer it that way. My baby buckling had his scurs starting to grow back in, one especially bad. I think they didn't let the iron reheat enough between burns because the one side was really wide but the other not so much. I just re dehorned him and pray that I got it all good this time. He would move his head back to try and give me kisses on the nose, but his scurs were coming strait out of the top of his head and they were starting to catch me on the chin. I know I won't really be wanting smelly peeface kisses once he's full grown, but I love them now!


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## ThornyRidgeII (Aug 31, 2012)

No horns for me!  My goats are constantly sticking heads through gates and the rough housing that goes on is just to dangerous for horns.. I have polled lines in my herd and love it love it love it!!


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## kstaven (Aug 31, 2012)

ragdollcatlady said:
			
		

> No Horns!
> 
> The neighbors goat...most of our first real interactions with goats were with the neighbors nubian with horns....she is rotten! She slams her owners leg when she is in heat or mad, or just for fun. And she leaves huge bruises!  She also threatens the old horses she lives with sometimes, by rearing up and almost slamming their legs! And she got stuck in the fence by her horns in the heat one day and was likely there for hours.......we do get over 100 sometimes.


The problem here isn't horns or not. It an out of control goat with an owner who doesn't lay the law down or possibly not know how too.


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## kstaven (Aug 31, 2012)

boothcreek said:
			
		

> I like horns, not just good handles but also good for fending them off since you got something solid to grab onto and steer the head into a different direction(or twist and lay them down all together- had to do that with my wethers a few times cause they kept trying to climb up me and kneeing them in the gut didnt work at all, laid them down a few times and the lesson finally stuck).
> 
> Got one of my knees busted against a wall by a dehorned goat since I had nothin to grab to keep it off me, ears are just too slippery to pull a mean goat off of you and keep at arms lenght.
> 
> ...


 It's all a matter of knowing how to handle the animals you are dealing with.


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## manybirds (Aug 31, 2012)

i dislike. always getting in the way, wrecking fencing, giving black eyes, hurting other goats severley. I have 2 goats with horns, the nubian with the more upright horns is HORRIBLE, the boer doe with her swept back horns isn't SO bad, though they can be inconvieniant.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 1, 2012)

kstaven said:
			
		

> ragdollcatlady said:
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Actually, I would _*somewhat *_disagree, politely.  My Annie is as sweet as they come--not out of control in the slightest.  And yet, I hate her horns.  She wants to be held and cuddled--yeah she's a sweetheart of a doe--and those blasted horns get in the way all the time!  It's really like she doesn't know she has them.

Yes, nasty goats _are_ a problem.  But I find horns a big pain.


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## kstaven (Sep 1, 2012)

That's the nice thing about this community. We can disagree without insult. We all have different backgrounds, opinions and experiences.

We run a dairy full of horned goats and in doing so one learns to be aware and work with and train horned animals. So to us it is no big deal.

What we do not tolerate out of any is aggressive behavior and posturing like that described in the post I replied to. Goats like cattle are very aware of their horns and know how to use them. Just lightly tap a goats horns and you will see just how aware they are of them.


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## bonbean01 (Sep 1, 2012)

We have hair sheep and no horns here.  However, some thoughts on goats with horns owned by our neighbour ...  The horns are a slightly curved forward and look kind of neat and at kidding time when we were helping with a difficult birthing, they did come in handy for holding her.  On the bad side, he has a very large pasture that is fenced way back into a heavy wooded area and the goats are not easy to see back there, but you do hear them when they have put their heads through the wire squares to eat grass on the other side, and can't get their heads back in because of the horns...slide out of the fence easily, but not back in when the horns hook on the fencing.  At least they are very LOUD about it and easy to hear...LOLOL...he has had to add an inside electric wire to stop that from happening.  

Those horns can tear up fencing pretty good without the electric wire.


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## kstaven (Sep 1, 2012)

Choosing the right fence with horned animals is always an issue. We use a farm fence that they can't get heads through.

Working with them is a different world.

The one thing I always say to anyone even considering horned goats is to find some one who works with horned animals daily and work with them for a few months to learn the ropes. Mistakes can be costly, painful, or potentially dangerous. So I would NEVER recommend learning the ropes the hard way if it can in any way be avoided. Teaching a horned animal to respect you and to not use there horns is vital to any long term relationship, and it is essential to learn the signs of a problem and correct it quickly.


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## NYRIR (Sep 2, 2012)

I like horns...they look more natural....and you can hold onto them well! Works better than a collar that chokes 'em if you need to pull them. BUT I will say that I am a newbie...and my two with horns are a Kinder and an Alpine baby. I will be disbudding any future babies though, most people don't want horns around here. 

Guess I can see both sides....if my Kinders horns went straight up....I'd probably hate them


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## Fluffygal (Sep 2, 2012)

I like the look of the horns and understand that they help in keeping the goats cool; however, for safety for both the goats and owner, I now prefer without the horns.
Started off with horned goats but have decided to band the 2 left with horns and any new goat I bring home down the road will have to be hornless.

Rufus (rehomed) got very food aggressive and was using his like weapons. It got to were I was constantly on watch around him as he would try the hardest to ram, flip, and bowl over the poor girls to keep the food to himself. The girls would always try to hide behind me so I was always having to grabb him and hold him down til he chilled out. Not to mention to try and not get hooked while he was being a turd. This was no fun so he had to go. 

The girls relaxed so much after he was gone; however, Bella has decided that it was her turn to be the top turd of the herd. She ofcourse is no where near as bad as Rufus was but is getting her horns banded. When Fiona arrived (hornless) Bella was really mean to her. Now not so much now, but the rough play makes me worry that she can hurt Fiona just by running under her and flipping her horned head up. Bella is a Pygmy and Fiona a Nubian. 

I have 3 different feeders that I put the food in so everyone gets food, 2 hay bags always kept full, and they have fresh greens that they can eat in their pen. I added more space to the pen by expanding it which they love. Despite this, Bella has taken to being the biggest Pigmy of the bunch. She trys to chase Oreo and Fiona off the food; but with more feeders she has a hard time of it.

The 3 girls act like a herd now; but I am still of the mind to no more horns.


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## allanimals21 (Sep 2, 2012)

I could go either way...I've decided I myself will not be dehorning or having anything de-horned anymore.  We have a polled doe right now that gives us the option of polled kids.  I've had some issues with scurs with my alpine wether and what he went through isn't fair.  He ended up having to go in on a saturday to have one surgically removed because it had broken of partially.  I just don't feel the need to have that possibly become a problem for another goat.  So this year the 2 kids I bought are horned.  My new buck is one of them. 

Having horns makes things a little different than not having horns obviously...I'm learning how to dodge them.  I'm not used to having to watch out for them.  Neither of the two horned goats here are agressive with their horns.  I'm hoping it stays that way.  I bought a horned buck back in november that was a nasty beast.  He attcked me several times.  One time he ended up bruising my whole inner thigh and my stomach.  He hit me in the thigh and tossed his head which hooked inside my shirt and well it didnt end well.  He had to be pulled off of me.


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## RareBreedFancier (Sep 3, 2012)

I liked horns. I really did. I didn't want to dis-bud but after having my buck use his horns on my ponies and on me I wasn't thrilled with them and decided any future buck would be hornless. My blind wether can be quite dangerous if he doesn't realize who is near him and he's got me good a few times now but I don't blame him (he get's picked on). Now after having to put down my beautiful doeling because one of my does gored her I'm changing to a no horn policy. I just don't want to deal with the damage those horns can do.


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## Missy (Sep 3, 2012)

I currently have a mixed herd of horned and no horned goats. 4 of my goats do not have horns and 3 do. My horned buck gets along nicely with my 2 hornless bucks, and never uses his horns for anything. As for my girls, My little pygmy never uses her horns, She peacefully lives with my Oberhasli doe and Nubian doe. It is my ND that is the problem. When she arrived here she bunted my Oberhasli over food, sleeping spots, water, hay...ect... Now the rest just stay clear of her, she doesn't use her horns on me, and the other animals avoid her. She is the only one I wish did not have horns.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 3, 2012)

I understand why some people don't like horn especially dairy goat people. In a dairy farm you have 50-200 goats that must be put into a small area with each other and people several times a day. That means alot of time spend together in a small area where horns could become a very large issue. So I do understand the dairy side of things. That being said, I love horns. I much prefer a goat to have horns then to not have horns.

1. *Horns are protection.*
Goats with horns can and will protect themselves if they need to. If you have alot or just several of them they can at least keep a             predator back. At the most they can kill the animal. They use those horns to save the lives of themselves or their kids. Goats that have no horns, be it from disbuding or being naturally polled, do not have any protection. Goats are prey animals and the only protection they have is their horns. They might be able to use their hooves from smaller creatures but in reality horns are their protection. 

2. *They use them to regulate body temperature.*
I honestly don't know much about that but I do know that their horns regulate their body temperature. 

3. *Excellent handles* 
I know that I've had to catch goats before that would have been quite impossible without horns. They were hard enough to catch and handle. Without horns they would not have been able to be handled. There is not way. Especially a large goat or a quick and fast one that seems to know if you want to catch it or not. If you have a goat without horns and is that wild I have no idea how someone would catch them.  With horns you don't have to get as close to the goat but more importantly you have something that is easy to hold onto and really not much danger involved. Without horns you have to get closer but you also have to find a way to really hold onto the goat. That more than likely have to somehow grab a kicking leg or bare-hug a goat that can kick you or flail it's head and hit you. I would argue that catching a wild goat without horns is much more dangerous that catching a wild goat with horns.

4. *Dangers of disbudding* 
Disbudding can be very dangerous to the goat. If not done correctly disbudding can kill a goat. For some people their first time disbudding results in the death of the kid. The iron over heats the brain causing the goat to die. There are many other issues that come along with disbudding. Scurs being the biggest. A goats scurs can grow in almost any direction and many times it grows back into their eyes or back into their heads. That can cause the goat extreme pain or even death. If their scurs grow large enough they will work as horns and them removing them can be hard or cause death, as they can bleed out if not done correctly. Sometimes their scurs can be broken or even smashed into their heads. If they are fighting with other goats, be it playing or real fighting, those scurs can be broken, bent, or pushed into their heads. They can be broken and cause them to bleed and chip. 

5. *They look quite amazing* 
Anyone that tells me horns don't make a goat look beautiful is crazy. Horns make a goat a goat. Horns are so different. They go straight up, go backwards, spiral up, spiral out, some are huge and some are small. They make a goat a goat in my opinion and provide more benefits that than the issues they can cause.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

Bump.


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## LBFarms (Sep 19, 2012)

Ok, this is driving me nuts! Everyone who is saying that they use the horns for "Handles."  A human should NEVER grab a goat by it's horns. It teaches the goats that it is OK to interact with humans with it's horns and that is a BAD THING. This is why goats with horns get a bad rep.  I tell everyone who comes into contact with my goats not to touch the horns. For some reason, the first thing everyone wants to do is grab the horns, DONT!  If you follow this rule, you wont have a problem with goats being aggressive towards people with their horns. At least as a rule, although I'm sure there are rare exceptions


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

Wow. I could not disagree more. It does not cause a goat to be any different.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

Wow. I could not disagree more. It does not cause a goat to be any different.


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## Catahoula (Sep 19, 2012)

LBFarms said:
			
		

> Ok, this is driving me nuts! Everyone who is saying that they use the horns for "Handles."  A human should NEVER grab a goat by it's horns. It teaches the goats that it is OK to interact with humans with it's horns and that is a BAD THING. This is why goats with horns get a bad rep.  I tell everyone who comes into contact with my goats not to touch the horns. For some reason, the first thing everyone wants to do is grab the horns, DONT!  If you follow this rule, you wont have a problem with goats being aggressive towards people with their horns. At least as a rule, although I'm sure there are rare exceptions


I wouldn't want anyone to drag me around by my hair or ears either. My kids don't have horns but they have scurs. Sometimes I just want to check the scurs and they don't like me touching them. They have collars and I use them.


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## LBFarms (Sep 19, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> Wow. I could not disagree more. It does not cause a goat to be any different.


Interesting to hear your experience, which is probably much more vast  than mine. However, I do know a handfull of others with goats that have problems with them using their horns against people and they all had played with their goats by their horns. I never did allow anyone to touch my goats horns (due to a lot of reading up on pack goats where this is always highly discouraged) & I've never had a problem.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

I know that some goats are bad with their horns and can be dangerous. I'm sure that if people are mean or abusive with the horns then they could get like that but just handling them by their horns does not make them mean or dangerous with them. Almost everyone of my goats have horns and while none of them really enjoy their horns being grabbed it is not because it hurts them or any other reason besides the fact that they don't want to be restrained. No goat is going to really like it when you have full control over them and they have no say. A lead lets them feel like they are still loose so they won't fight as much. I have had goats that were a bit wild but if you grab their horns and just hold them until they know you are boss then they change. The become a bit more docile and better with you. I have one goat that was hard to catch and used to do anything to get away even when grabbed. After a while of catching and just holding until she settles down, she now is very good about it. If I just have a finger on her horn she will just sit there. She knows that I am over her and will not just let her run away because she wants too. I also have several goats that are the biggest loves in the world and holding or pulling them (if needed) by there horns has never made them any different.They are just as big a love and may even be nicer. All animals must have your respect and when they do they can be the best goats, dogs, ect.

So I have never seen a case where handling by their horns has made them any different than what they were. And no, despite what some people say, it does not hurt a goat to handle them by their horns. They are basically and extension of their skull and is part of them, unlike a deer, for example. If just handling them by horns hurt then why would a goat ever butt heads? Whether it be fighting or playing. If it hurt do you really think that they would throw all their weight into a butt and smash heads and horns together? Trust me, it does not hurt them.


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## LBFarms (Sep 19, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> I know that some goats are bad with their horns and can be dangerous. I'm sure that if people are mean or abusive with the horns then they could get like that but just handling them by their horns does not make them mean or dangerous with them. Almost everyone of my goats have horns and while none of them really enjoy their horns being grabbed it is not because it hurts them or any other reason besides the fact that they don't want to be restrained. No goat is going to really like it when you have full control over them and they have no say. A lead lets them feel like they are still loose so they won't fight as much. I have had goats that were a bit wild but if you grab their horns and just hold them until they know you are boss then they change. The become a bit more docile and better with you. I have one goat that was hard to catch and used to do anything to get away even when grabbed. After a while of catching and just holding until she settles down, she now is very good about it. If I just have a finger on her horn she will just sit there. She knows that I am over her and will not just let her run away because she wants too. I also have several goats that are the biggest loves in the world and holding or pulling them (if needed) by there horns has never made them any different.They are just as big a love and may even be nicer. All animals must have your respect and when they do they can be the best goats, dogs, ect.
> 
> So I have never seen a case where handling by their horns has made them any different than what they were. And no, despite what some people say, it does not hurt a goat to handle them by their horns. They are basically and extension of their skull and is part of them, unlike a deer, for example. If just handling them by horns hurt then why would a goat ever butt heads? Whether it be fighting or playing. If it hurt do you really think that they would throw all their weight into a butt and smash heads and horns together? Trust me, it does not hurt them.


Thaks for your insight. I believe you about it not hurting them, but not sure if I'd risk putting them in their place by their horns.  It is a cardinal sin in the world of pack goats where they need to be very sociable and people friendly.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

When I say put into place I mean just holding them still. Nothing more than that. I would never strike or do anything other than just hold their horns. That can make a goat mean for sure and/or dangerous. And I do not believe handling them by there horns will make them unfriendly. That has never happened to me and it has improved my "relationship" with several of mine, so I would argue it helps with that.


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## LBFarms (Sep 19, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> When I say put into place I mean just holding them still. Nothing more than that. I would never strike or do anything other than just hold their horns. That can make a goat mean for sure and/or dangerous. And I do not believe handling them by there horns will make them unfriendly. That has never happened to me and it has improved my "relationship" with several of mine, so I would argue it helps with that.


Didn't think you meant anything rough. You have me thinking that if done correctly, maybe it could help correct some behavior. I will run it by some of my experienced pack goat buddies. Unfortunatley, when I have seen people grab goats horns, they just  walk up to a goat minding it's own business and grab the horns and act like they are playing with a dog and yank them around and shake them around. Like they think the goat is gonna enjoy it. That's why it bugs the heack outta me.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

I would agree that that is wrong and that you should not do that at all. But just for handling, moving, holding then it is fine and does not mess with the goat.


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## CoffeeCow (Sep 20, 2012)

Yes, horns look very good on a goat.. But, they are not welcome at my little farm.
I have 2 young children that love playing with the goats, they climb on the stumps and wire reels with the goats and play for hours. Horns can be very dangerous in that situation. 
Also, my wifes uncle has goats with horns, and they get caught in the fence quite often, and are stuck there until he gets home from work. 

So therefore my vote is for: No, I do not like horns (even though they look very good)


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## terrilhb (Sep 20, 2012)

All 6 of my goats have horns. I love them. Great to hold onto and for protection. I have been hurt a couple of times. But it has always been because I got lazy and did not pay attention. I was told when I 1st got goats to always Remember Respect The Horns. I try to do this. My goats are not aggressive so I am lucky.


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## Melwynnd (Sep 25, 2012)

I have to vote for no horns.  I had Nubians with no horns when we were in the woods.  My queen could defend herself just fine and nailed the neighbor's dog hard enough to make her limp without any horns.  I used collars to catch them.

Now that I'm living in town and making plans to get a couple of Nigerians, I think being hornless makes people think of them more like dogs than goats.  My enclosure would be fine for horns, nothing for them to catch.  Also, I think it's easier to find good homes for the babies if they are disbudded, at least around here.

Sherry


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