# Buckling has abnormal horn after disbudding-Advice needed please!



## willow_top_farm (Jul 3, 2011)

I need advice here.  Little Freddy was disbudded by my breeder at 4 days old. Everything went fine. However, she mentioned the one of his horns had something different about it (I didn't pay close enough attention to remember now...) and she said she did a "figure 8 burn" to handle it.  Now, Freddy is almost 6 weeks old,  he and the other kids are having the scabs tear off and bleed on and off as they play and butt each other. However, one of his disbudded horn spots has gotten HUGE!  I've felt all around the horn to see if it's warm to the touch to indicate infection, it's not. However, the area itself is somewhat tender as when I press on it, he wants to back away from me. It's been this way for a week or more.  I keep watching it/him, but it's not changing or healing. 

He's acting his normal self, eating well, frolicking, etc.  I've not taken a temp due to a dead thermometer, but I'll borrow my neighbor's when she gets home.  I'm a first timer with goats this year, so your advice/insight is greatly appreciated!

Here's a photo.


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## Livinwright Farm (Jul 3, 2011)

I have not disbudded goats, and don't plan to with a horns intact herd, but IMO that doesn't look good. :/

I know some people will spray the area with Blu Kote to help fight off potential infections... perhaps you could get a bottle and spray some on there.


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## LadyIsabelle2011 (Jul 3, 2011)

I have no experience with dis-budding or dis-budded goats but if I were in you situation I would call the person who did the dis-budding and ask for some advice, or maybe get your vet out their to look at him...

Also, you can't go wrong with blue kote like Livinwright said...


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## willow_top_farm (Jul 3, 2011)

I don't have Blue Kote, but my neighbor might, I'll check into it. I also have a general disinfectant and was thinking about putting some triple antibiotic ointment on it.  I'll also send the photo to my breeder...


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## helmstead (Jul 3, 2011)

I would seek a vet, that looks really bad...

It also looks a bit like the horn is growing back on the other side.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 3, 2011)

I agree.  It doesn't look like just horn regrowth after improper disbudding, to me it almost looks like it's abscessed or something.  I'd see a vet about that.  Sorry!


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## Livinwright Farm (Jul 3, 2011)

I was gonna say that it looked abcessed, but couldn't tell if it was open and oozing or just severely swollen and bubbled.


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## helmstead (Jul 3, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> I was gonna say that it looked abcessed, but couldn't tell if it was open and oozing or just severely swollen and bubbled.


Yeah it's hard to tell!  I haven't seen anything like that so far and hope to the heavens that I don't.

Please keep us updated!


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## willow_top_farm (Jul 3, 2011)

It DOES get little "bubbles" on it sometimes, would that indicate something specific?  It bleeds and then starts to scab and then he plays with the other kids and it tears and bleeds again.  I'll bring him to the vet on Tuesday. In the meantime, I've swabbed it up with anaseptic and gobbed some triple antibiotic ointment on it. It does look ugly, doesn't it?  Wow, my first time with goats, got them in April, and I've had three cases of coccidia and now this! Is it always like this?  I was going to band the boys this week...I'm thinking I'll hold off on this poor little guy for another week.


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## doxiemoxie (Jul 3, 2011)

This needs a vet to open and drain the abscess and in the process s/he can probably also remove the horn bud.  Keep him as stress-free as possible (yes, save the banding for later) .  If he runs a fever at all start him on antibiotics immediately.


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## Ariel301 (Jul 4, 2011)

Yeah, that looks bad. I'm not sure what's going on there from the photo, but it's not normal at all. Also, it looks like the horn on the other side will need to be done again, it looks like it is growing back in. That's a really poor disbudding job. :/ Going to the vet is probably a wise choice, I'm not sure I'd let the breeder try again after seeing that, yikes. I'd hold off on banding him a while, he doesn't need any added stress. I think you just got unlucky with the horn problem; coccidia is unfortunately a problem a lot of us have to deal with every year. Putting kids on a preventative treatment plan before they get sick should help out with any future babies.


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## MissDanni (Jul 4, 2011)

Ouch! I know nothing about dis-budding as all mine have horns so I'm no help to you. But I wish you the best of luck and hope everything works out well for you both.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 4, 2011)

I agree, don't band until he's 100%.  Let us know what the vet says!  Hopefully (s)he can can him all fixed up for you.


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## willow_top_farm (Jul 4, 2011)

I will let you know what the vet says. I wish I could bring him today, but the office is closed due to the holiday and I can't afford an emergency call.  I'll keep it disinfected until then.


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## cindyg (Jul 4, 2011)

I agree with all the others, that does not look right.  I've only had three dis budded, am brand new to this also, but will be watching to see what happens, sorry you're going through this, bad experience for you but certainly a learning experience for us all.  Thanks for posting this.  Keep us up to date.


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## Goatmasta (Jul 4, 2011)

I would say that the one is infected.  I would also reburn after he has recovered and it has been 6-9 wks from first burn.  Obviously I would find someone else to do the reburn.  A vet is a wonderful idea.


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## babsbag (Jul 4, 2011)

Please let us know what the vet says. I have 2 kids that have horn buds just like that and they are not infected (not saying yours are not). I just did a really bad burn job on these two as I am just learning how to do them and pretty much a chicken.  The horns are just growing in like a normal horn would, only a little slower and with some scabs on them from the burning I did. They pretty much look like your kid does.

I am not saying that yours is just a bad burn job, and it is good that you are taking him to the vet. All my friends that have looked at mine say that at this point I would have to have a vet remove them, so it is a good choice for you no matter what. It is MUCH better to deal with the horns now that when they are older. I did that and will never go down that road again. If I don't get the horns off as kids they are staying.

Good luck with your kid and I hope it is something simple.


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## Mzyla (Jul 4, 2011)

When I bought my two goats at 2 weeks of age, the were disbudded.
They were scabbing and bleeding, when playing...
I just kept on cleaning and putting ointment on....

From the very beginning, one goat horns didn't feel right.
There were bulges similar to yours! I would say, almost exact as yours!
Only that wasn't that bloody.
One horn had bigger growth and one horn have smaller growth.

While one of my goats started healing and her head flattening, the other one started to have noticeable horns!
One horn was/is like almost normal; the other one is totally different.
SEE PICTURE

I'm accepting this the way it is. I won't put my goat into more stress and pain.

I'm not much help to you, but at least you can see an example of the horns that your goat will grow shortly.
Now it depends on you, if you can accept your goat the way it will be?
I accepted my and love her the same.


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## babsbag (Jul 4, 2011)

I have a wether that has a scur (horn) that we have to keep cut. If we let it grow it would curl around right into his eye. The scur on the other side gets knocked off all the time. We just keep it trimmed enough so that it doesn't cause him any problems. 

My buck also had scurs, but much worse since he is a buck. Since I wanted to show him (never did) I had the "horn" removed. I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN, and he still has a small scur.

Horns can be hard on feeders and fences but an electric fence can keep them out of the fence and feeder choices can be made that won't be a problem.  I hate disbudding, but with dairy does that may end up in a show ring I have no other options. I have two that are polled and they sometimes give my polled kids, I wish they old were that way.


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## Goatmasta (Jul 4, 2011)

I have an article on my blog about disbudding (with a video) if you want to learn how to do it.  The scur-horns are not necessary if you disbud properly.  I know several here do not do it like I do.  However, I have never had a scur-horn.  If you want to know how to remove the scur-horns PM me. I would be glad to help.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jul 5, 2011)

Just a sidenote..even if a vet does the burn...dos'nt always mean its not gonna scur.  I have a buck that has scurs  and have to deal with regularly.  Not fun for him.  So you should find someone expirenced.  A breeder...or show person who has much more expirence in disbudding...or anyone who has alot of expirence for that matter who has a larger herd and does it often.  But remeber vets dont do this reqularly..even the larger vets.  Just something to keep in mind.  But after you fiqure out whats going on with that swollen disbud area...I would do research and definatley do a reburn before he gets too old.  

Good luck...poor little guy...hope it goes okay for you both.

PS I love my vet..he's a large animal vet...but he cant disbud very good at all!! Sorry doc..but its the truth!! lol!!


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## Pearce Pastures (Jul 5, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

> I have an article on my blog about disbudding (with a video) if you want to learn how to do it.  The scur-horns are not necessary if you disbud properly.  I know several here do not do it like I do.  However, I have never had a scur-horn.  If you want to know how to remove the scur-horns PM me. I would be glad to help.


Thanks for sharing the video!


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## willow_top_farm (Jul 5, 2011)

Mzyla, I will definetly love him, no matter how the horns turn out.   I'm wondering tho if it will be a problem to show him for 4H?  He's my son's project goat, and this is our first time in 4H...  Did you bring yours to a vet?  If so, what did s/he say?  How long did it take to heal from this?  It's been a bit more than a week so far far. 

I'm not really happy about the disbudding job on any of my bucklings that my breeder did. I was really hoping she'd be the one to trust to do it, she has a very large herd and does it a lot. However, every one of the kids she burned has scurs now and this one, well you can already see what happened.  The does I bought from her have scurs as well, question is how to trim them?  One doe has a scur curling back into her head. Can I use hoove trimmers?  And how far can I cut back at a time, will they bleed like dog's nails?

I didn't get home in time to take Freddy to the vet today, I'll call first thing in the morning. It looks the same.  I'm hoping this will not be a very involved drama, not to mention expensive!  We'll see, I guess. 

I appreciate all the dialogue and advice on here!  Thanks!  I'll give an update on what happens.

p.s. As far as learning to disbud, definitely not wanting to do this myself.  I bought the goats more for the milk, experience and "homesteading"...not for show. However, I thought 4H would be a great experience for my kids, thus the disbudding.  In the future, for next breeding, I may decide not to disbudd at all.  I'll have to really think about it.


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## helmstead (Jul 5, 2011)

willow_top_farm said:
			
		

> p.s. As far as learning to disbud, definitely not wanting to do this myself.  I bought the goats more for the milk, experience and "homesteading"...not for show. However, I thought 4H would be a great experience for my kids, thus the disbudding.  In the future, for next breeding, I may decide not to disbudd at all.  I'll have to really think about it.


Not to push you one way or the other (because disbudding is a completely personal decision)...but if you do decide to have future kids disbudded, just look around for someone else to do it, and check references 1st.

A well disbudded kid, 99.9% of the time...equals a no trauma no drama hornless animal later.  

Shame that you're having scurs and other issues with your first goats.  :/

You can use hoof nippers or a dremmel tool.  You can also get a bone saw from your vet while you're there, which make scur trimming pretty easy once you get them going.  The danger with hoof nippers is they can remove the WHOLE scur, down to the bone...and if it was well attached, it can really bleed (more gross than dangerous, but still  )


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## willow_top_farm (Jul 6, 2011)

I just dropped off the poor little guy at the vet's. The Dr.'s first thoughts are that it's abnormal bony growth as it feels very hard. He also said that he's seen this before. He sedated him and will have to surgically cut it off as it can lead to sinus troubles later. He's checking out the other horn too and I'm getting him tattooed while he's at it. I'll pick him up later today and will know more details.  Cross your fingers for me that it all goes well and that I won't have to re-mortgage the house to pay for it!:/


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 6, 2011)

That's good it wasn't an infection.  It sure looked angry enough!  Hope the sedation goes well.


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## Mossy Stone Farm (Jul 6, 2011)

hopeing fo rthe best....


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## willow_top_farm (Jul 6, 2011)

Ok, picked Freddy up from the vet. (He gave me the ole stink eye through a fully bandaged head.)  The verdict was the it was all abnormal boney growth and the vet had to take a bone saw to it. He said it was gorey...ugh.  He believes the other horn will be fine. I can take the bandage off tomorrow and spray it with Blue Kote. So overall, I think it was a good outcome.   I think I've met my quota for "incidents" tho.

Oh yeah, for those that may be curious I was charged $150.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Jul 6, 2011)

willow_top_farm said:
			
		

> Ok, picked Freddy up from the vet. (He gave me the ole stink eye through a fully bandaged head.)  The verdict was the it was all abnormal boney growth and the vet had to take a bone saw to it. He said it was gorey...ugh.  He believes the other horn will be fine. I can take the bandage off tomorrow and spray it with Blue Kote. So overall, I think it was a good outcome.   I think I've met my quota for "incidents" tho.
> 
> Oh yeah, for those that may be curious I was charged $150.


$150 is not bad for where I live.  Hope all works out and the little guy is all better and your son is able to show him.


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## greenfamilyfarms (Jul 6, 2011)

Does he have a hole in his skull now or is it flush with is head? I think that would make me pass out if he had a hole. I've seen pictures of that before.


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## willow_top_farm (Jul 6, 2011)

I think it was cut flush to the head. It's still bandaged, but I will take the bandage off tomorrow. I can take a picture if there is interest in seeing it.

Here's a photo of what he looks like now.







Side view:


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## helmstead (Jul 6, 2011)

Poor feller..

Please keep the photos rolling as it heals, very interesting.


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## RareBreedFancier (Jul 7, 2011)

Awww poor guy! I hope he heals soon and you don't have any more trouble with it.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jul 7, 2011)

So glad for you that is wasn't an infection (and didn't cost you a ton more).  Poor fella-he kinda looks cute with his little head wrap though-here's hoping for a fast recovery.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Jul 7, 2011)

Definately want to see photos as he progresses.


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## Livinwright Farm (Jul 7, 2011)

Please do share the photos, as it is good educational material. Just be sure to edit your original post topic to include *graphic pics*  to fore warn any members who might get queasy easily.


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## willow_top_farm (Jul 18, 2011)

Sorry. I keep meaning to post new picts. I'll take photos tomorrow and post them.  He's doing fine, although I'm bummed to see he's getting front and back scurs on the other horn. I hoped the vet would've taken care of both horn when he had him in surgery.


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## Queen Mum (Feb 16, 2018)

Even a good burn job on a buckling can result in scurs!  Don't blame the breeder.  Some bucklings just have a wide horn base to begin with.  

It is important to shave those little baby heads BEFOREHAND when disbudding to see where the horn margins are.  AND Then you MUST kill the center of the bud on bucklings as well as the margin.


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## alsea1 (Feb 17, 2018)

willow_top_farm said:


> I don't have Blue Kote, but my neighbor might, I'll check into it. I also have a general disinfectant and was thinking about putting some triple antibiotic ointment on it.  I'll also send the photo to my breeder...


The iodine you use on umbilical cords should work well to ward off infection and speed healing.


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