# 2 month old has runny poop



## MrsCowher (Oct 13, 2012)

I have two babies that I recently got. One of them has been having very runny and lumpy poop. It looks more like a small dog's runny poop.

Any clue what could be wrong?


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## Pearce Pastures (Oct 13, 2012)

My bet is on coccidiosis.  Treat with DiMethox 40% 1.6cc per 5 pounds of her weight on the first day of a five day course, and then 1.6cc per 10 pounds of her weight for the next four days.  I would also say get a fecal run to see is she is having any worm issues, especially at her young age since an overload could take her down quickly.  Have you checked her temp?  What is she eating and has she had any diet changes?


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## Roll farms (Oct 14, 2012)

Good answer Pearce. 
You give that DiMethox 40% orally, Mrs. C.  It says injectable but...you give it orally.  Might also give probiotics / yogurt daily while she's being treated, too.

Def. have the fecal ran.  And cocci treatment often needs repeated at least 1 time.

It can and will kill her if it's severe enough, please don't underestimate how serious it is.  They both likely have it and only one is showing signs.  It damages them internally where you can't see, to the point where they starve to death even when well fed.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 14, 2012)

where can you get DiMethox 40%?


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## Pearce Pastures (Oct 14, 2012)

I order it from Jeffers.com in the powdered form (they do have liquid but it is more expensive) but my farm store now stocks it for me too.  TSC does not have it.  The packet directions will only get you a 12.5% concentration of medication in the liquid which is okay but not quite as potent as you would want for coccidosis (for prevention it is okay).

So with a little math, here is what I do...

Mix packet with 1.5 cups water.  
Administer 1.6cc/5 pounds on day one of treatment.  
Then for the next 5 days, administer 1.6cc/10 pounds.

I store this in a 1 quart glass jar in my fridge.  It will separate as it cools and needs to be set out at room temp for awhile and stirred for the solids to dissolve back into the liquid before using.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 14, 2012)

Thanks! I have some questions about all this so maybe I should start another thread. I don't want to hi-jack and get away from the main topic.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 14, 2012)

Let me add some information that I should have mentioned when posting my question. 

We haven't had the babies long. I seriously doubt the previous owners fed them the same stuff we do. To my understanding, goats will have diarrhea when switching food.

All of my goats have healthy appetites. I sit outside with them for hours straight sometimes; they all definitely eat like pigs.

I have a question about coccidiosis. How is it spread exactly?


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 14, 2012)

MrsCowher said:
			
		

> Let me add some information that I should have mentioned when posting my question.
> 
> We haven't had the babies long. I seriously doubt the previous owners fed them the same stuff we do. To my understanding, goats will have diarrhea when switching food.
> 
> ...


Although, techinically it can spread from being in too close of quarters, or other animals scouring/runny poop with it.  It can also "bloom." All goats have it in their system and a young goat when stressed out from perhaps a feed change or moving to a new home can have a coccidiosis "Bloom." THe Coccidiosis takes advantage of the stressed out animal and mulitply and become more than their system can handle. They can just be run down and become slower growers for a while, or they can become very sick and die. Just depends on the animals abililty to fight it and the situation.  

Being your goats have been stressed by a move and feed change, I would suspect coccidiosis.  

But I wouldn't rule out something like OverEating disease, which can also take advantage of a stressed out system and feed change and become a problem.  This is a bacteria that blooms in their system, causing varying degrees of problems. but High fever, scours, bloat and a very quick death can be the outcome.  Coccidiosis bloom is more likely to cause a low temp in the animal from dehydration.  But It is also possible for the animal to have a both at the same time. They are both very opportunistic.  

doing a fecal can keep you from guessing.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 14, 2012)

The problem is finding a vet to test for me. I can't find a caprine vet. I have just emailed my local small animal vet to see if they can test or if they know someone that will.

Will I see anything in the poop?


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## MrsCowher (Oct 14, 2012)

Also, can my dog get it from the goats?


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 14, 2012)

MrsCowher said:
			
		

> Also, can my dog get it from the goats?


No, they can't get coccidiosis or overeating disease from the goats.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 14, 2012)

Okay, I need an estimate of how much it will cost to get my goat(s) checked. Also, if you could explain how life with Coccidiosis infected goats will be. What I will have to do, how they will be.


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## TGreenhut (Oct 14, 2012)

MrsCowher said:
			
		

> Okay, I need an estimate of how much it will cost to get my goat(s) checked. Also, if you could explain how life with Coccidiosis infected goats will be. What I will have to do, how they will be.


Maybe $40 for both goats to get a fecal (but it varies). Our horse vet did a fecal on our goats if you can't find a caprine vet. There is no life for goats with a heavy cocci load. They will get dehydrated from the scours if the worms don't kill them first. Many goats live with cocci but they can only survive if they don't have a heavy load, are healthy with a strong immune system, and older so they are more capable of fighting it off. If your babies have cocci, you need to treat it ASAP!


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## Pearce Pastures (Oct 14, 2012)

http://www.aasrp.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=15

Not sure if this will help but the AASRP has a Find A Vet search.  Our fecals run $15 if we go to one vet and free with the other since we have developed a good relationship with him (sometimes we go to the one we have to pay because our other vet is busy).  If you can't find a goat vet, I would be calling around to small animal vets to see if any of them might be willing to offer some assistance.  I don't want to scare you, but it could get bad fast.  A stressed, scouring, young kid might not last long.

Do you have DiMethox?

As others have said, all goats and many animals have cocci present to some extent all the time.  It is when they are young and still developing an immune system or when they are experiencing other times of stress that these protozoa can overrun them, cause scours, dehydration, damaged intestinal lining, and kill them.  I had does get this so badly that they actually shed the lining of their intestine (I thought it was giant worms at first) and though we were able to save her, one doe has a hard time keeping weight on, I am sure because her system has been scarred.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 14, 2012)

Can you make sense of the fact that all of my goats are playful, healthy eaters, and don't look a bit sick?


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## TGreenhut (Oct 14, 2012)

MrsCowher said:
			
		

> Can you make sense of the fact that all of my goats are playful, healthy eaters, and don't look a bit sick?


There is a chance it is not cocci, but with scours and a young goat who is stressed to some extent, it just seems the most likely. That's why it is good to get a fecal done to find out and solve the problem before it turns bad and they _start_ going downhill. What are you feeding them? Have they gotten into anything lately (horse food barrel, etc)? Are they still young enough to be drinking milk? Are they outside? Have they (or their dam when she was pregnant) been given a CD&T vaccination?


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## Roll farms (Oct 14, 2012)

MrsCowher said:
			
		

> Can you make sense of the fact that all of my goats are playful, healthy eaters, and don't look a bit sick?


Yes.   We had kids born here sporadically over the years and never had a cocci issue when we were just keeping them as pets.  Then we decided to 'raise goats' as a business, brought in new stock from different places, and everything went to Hades in a handbasket.

I had 6 kids my 1st year that I thought were fine, eating, playful, etc.   4 were dead within the next 2 weeks and the 2 survivors never really grew well from the damage.

That's why we're suggesting a fecal.  It could be parasites (worms or cocci), bacterial, and it could be simply dietary...but since you asked, IMHO cocci is the "usual suspect" in your kids age bracket / situation.  

It may not be a cocci overload (aka coccidiosis) but it may...and it may be subclinical (non-symptomatic) so that you won't see any signs...and they may look fine right up until they suddenly don't look fine anymore and start to die.

The following year I tried using medicated feed to prevent it.  It didn't work because A) when they're little they cannot eat enough of the medicated feed to get the meds up to therapeutic levels to prevent the disease in the 1st place and B) - it won't 'cure' them.  
If they don't have cocci, the medicated feed is supposed to help prevent it (I believe by killing one stage in the cocci life cycle...but will not cure / treat / fix it if they already have cocci.  It helps, but won't fix it. 

So I had 6 kids that year that were poor-doers but survived.

The following year (2004) I researched and read up and studied, and I started treating kids w/ DiMethox every 21 days when it's warm / wet weather (what cocci thrive in).  We haven't lost a kid to coccidiosis since then, and our kids grow well / do well now.  

I treat them for 5 days....then they get no meds for 21 days...then 5 days on, 21 off, etc.
I treat until they're 6-8 mos old and eating the medicated feed well.     

If I get a kid from a new source or a fecal indicates they have cocci, I treat for 7 days.  Prevention is 5 days.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 14, 2012)

TGreenhut said:
			
		

> MrsCowher said:
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I feed them this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/feed-solutions-sweet-mix-50-lb--2427127

No, we only have goats. We have a dog that goes outside a lot, but his food stays inside because of ants. There is nothing unusual they could have eaten.

The previous owners said they only gave the babies meds for worm prevention. Should I get my 4 goats the CD&T vaccination?


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## MrsCowher (Oct 14, 2012)

I've just ordered some liquid Di-Methox in case the goats have it.


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## TGreenhut (Oct 14, 2012)

MrsCowher said:
			
		

> TGreenhut said:
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You should definitely get them the CD&T vaccine (Clostridium Perfringens Type C and D Tetanus Toxoid) because you will need to vaccinate your goats annually anyways. The toxoid is the vaccine (Tox*oid*: to av*oid*) but to treat overeating disease or tetanus, you'll want to use the antitoxin. You can buy the CD&T toxoid here: http://www.jefferslivestock.com/bar-vac-cd-t/camid/LIV/cp/16741/ and the antitoxin here: http://www.jefferslivestock.com/clostridium-perfringens/camid/LIV/cp/0040207/. The antitoxin is good to have on hand. I doubt your goats will need treatment for overeating disease right now, though, because I think it is probably cocci.

x2 on RollFarms' comment


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 15, 2012)

MrsCowher said:
			
		

> TGreenhut said:
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Roll did a great job explaining.  Sorry, I jumped off. I went and watched a movie with my husband.   We do recommend vaccinating for CD&T. A small bottle and a couple needles and syringes shouldn't cost mroe than  $10.00. Very easy to do.  Tetnus isn't as common as Overeating Disease. The CD part of the vaccine is Overeating Disease. That is pretty common.  

having a bottle of dimethoxine on hand is a very good idea.  Really no reason to not use it.  Our kids are treated on a regular basis their first spring and summer. And all goats that we send home to new ownders are given enough for one treatment, incase they bloom from the stress of the move. Many people treat for coccidiosis on a regular basis.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 15, 2012)

Are you saying people use the stronger liquid, rather than the preventive powder, frequently to avoid the goats getting sick?

Update: A vet that is maybe 5 miles away has told me that they will test my goats. It will only cost $15.

I have a question. You know when goat's poop is in a ball put you can see some pellets? Is that something I can take or should I wait for the runny kind? I'm asking because I wasn't home when that poop ended up on the porch and am not entirely sure that it came from the goat I believe to be sick.

Also, should I wait and collect pellets from each goat I see poop and then go to vet?

If they say my goat(s) have cocci, I just need to give Di-Methox, right? Anything else I need to do?


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 15, 2012)

MrsCowher said:
			
		

> Are you saying people use the stronger liquid, rather than the preventive powder, frequently to avoid the goats getting sick?
> 
> Update: A vet that is maybe 5 miles away has told me that they will test my goats. It will only cost $15.
> 
> ...


di-methox is what you need. 
I don't use the 40%, we use either the powder or premixed liquid in a gallon, I think it is 12.5%, we don't dose as high as some people recommend on this forum I doubt your vet will recommend dosing that high either. We also use Corid a lot. Either one will normally work.  they are given for 5 days in a row, more like treating bacteria than parasites, like using an antibiotic compared to some of the wormers. 

No I wasn't saying they use the stonger liquid compared to the powder,  Either one can be used at any desired concentration. It just depends how much you use of each. The powder, 40% di-methoxine and the gallon jug of di-methoxine are really all the same thing. Just need to be dosed properly to give you the right amount of active ingredients per lb of the animal. 
Same with Corid, comes in liquid or powder, doesn't really matter which one you get. I find powder a little harder to measure out and mix. But it all works the same.  

You have what you need. 

as far as collecting fecals, for sure get a fresh one. We have done both, we have mixed the fecals from a couple goats in a group and took it in as one sample and we have had two or three individual samples taken in from individual animals. You are probably okay getting one sample from the sickest goat and using that. You can collect and refridgerate until you bring it in, but collect a fresh sample and not one that was laying on the ground for an unknown amount of time.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 15, 2012)

I appreciate all of the help y'all are giving me. I admit I am rather nervous and confused about this.

I have just hosed off the porch (unfortunately their favorite poop spot) and have given them their breakfast. I think I will lie in the hammock while I wait for them to do their business. 

They can test normal pellets, right?


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 15, 2012)

MrsCowher said:
			
		

> I appreciate all of the help y'all are giving me. I admit I am rather nervous and confused about this.
> 
> I have just hosed off the porch (unfortunately their favorite poop spot) and have given them their breakfast. I think I will lie in the hammock while I wait for them to do their business.
> 
> They can test normal pellets, right?


Yes, sorry I missed that question. Pellets can be normal looking that is fine.  Make sure you mention coccidiosis to the vet.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 15, 2012)

Awesome. Will the test they do also tell them if it's overeating disease? Speaking of that, is overeating disease a big deal or something that can be cured?


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 15, 2012)

MrsCowher said:
			
		

> Awesome. Will the test they do also tell them if it's overeating disease? Speaking of that, is overeating disease a big deal or something that can be cured?


They can survive overeating disease.  But more than likely yours don't have it since they are doing so well.  I lost one this summer from overeating disease. she was fine looking the night before, scouring(very runny poop) this next morning and looking like she wasn't feeling well, I decided to wait to treat her when my husband got home from work, she was a good 80 lbs and not tame. and when I tried to approach her she was very alert and would run off. So I made the bad decision of leaving her alone until later in the day.  By 1pm in the afternoon she was bloated like a hot air balloon, down on her side, and dead in another 30 minutes after that.  It is a very fast.  

You will have to talk to the vet about what they test for, Bacterial compared to parasites. I don't think they will test for bacterial unless you ask, and I am sure it is a different test and takes longer.  Honestly, don't know much about that.  

There is a medicine called C&D Antitoxin, is the treatment for overeating disease, it is not the vaccine. The vaccine will say Toxoid on the bottle and the treatment will say antibody on the bottle. Bigger farms keep it on hand all the time,  and use it pretty much any time they have kids that are scouring. I haven't owned a bottle in 14 years of raising 30 ro 50 kids a year. We got our first bottle this year and we have used it. I feel positive it saved one of my kids this summer. 

I have read where people were having problems with their goat scouring and having constant upset stomachs, especially young kids and bottle babies and giving them C&D antitoxin really helped them get over it.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 15, 2012)

I've been able to collect fresh fecal from 3 out of 4 of my goats. I think I missed the 4th one pooping while I was looking for the 3rd one's. 

One of the two month old babies let out one runny lump that is only an inch and a half long. Will that be enough to test? Also, my three month old girl only let out 26 or so pellets. Will that be enough?

Can I safely assume that if my 3 goats have cocci, so does the 4th? Is it likely that only one or two will have it?


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## Roll farms (Oct 15, 2012)

That should be plenty.  I'd be more concerned w/ the kid's poop (as far as cocci) but it's a good idea to get adults checked for worms.

We vaccinate kids 2x w/ CD/T (10 days and 30 days old) then 1x yearly for tetanus / overeating disease prevention.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 15, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> That should be plenty.  I'd be more concerned w/ the kid's poop (as far as cocci) but it's a good idea to get adults checked for worms.
> 
> We vaccinate kids 2x w/ CD/T (10 days and 30 days old) then 1x yearly for tetanus / overeating disease prevention.


Are you saying that my adult might not have it? My 1-2 year old had big runny poop this morning, which I was able to collect. Her 4 month old baby has normal pellets this morning.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 15, 2012)

Can I safely assume that if my 3 goats have cocci, so does the 4th? Is it likely that only one or two will have it?


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## Roll farms (Oct 15, 2012)

Adults usually keep it (cocci) in check (build immunity as they age, that's why I stop treating at 6-8 mos)...but it IS possible.  If an adult is bothered by a cocci bloom there's usually something else wrong w/ it that compromised the immune system (some other illness) which allowed the opportunistic parasite to take over.

Typically when adults scour it's dietary or parasites, but there are really hundreds of causes which is why we're recommending the fecals.  We can guess all day and guess wrong each time.

Have the poo tested and please let us know what the results are.

Good luck.


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## MrsCowher (Oct 15, 2012)

Okay, thank you for putting up with my many questions. As much as I would love to wait for the 4th goat's fecal (one of the 2 month olds), I better get going because I have to deal with human problems today if I want us to have gas for our house this winter and for our garbage man to not skip our house for the 4th week in a row.

I will definitely let you all know how it goes. I'm hoping that I will be able to drop off the fecal at the vet and then just have them call me when they're done.

God bless all of you. Have a good day!


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