# Pictures of my cows



## RollingAcres (Apr 12, 2018)

Here are some pictures taken today of my cows. They are both Red Devon breed, at least that's what the sellers told us.

Mama Bertie is the older bigger one. We call her mama because when we got her we also got a 2 mo old calf on the same day but from another seller. The calf followed her around like she's the mother. And a few times when the calf accidentally escaped the fence, mama Bertie was pacing all over and kept mooing for the calf. In fact that's how we know the calf escaped.

Scaper is the smaller one, she's about a year old. She got the name Scaper because she'd escaped the fence a few times.


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## RollingAcres (Apr 12, 2018)

Mama Bertie


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## RollingAcres (Apr 12, 2018)

Scaper


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## Wehner Homestead (Apr 12, 2018)

They are pretty! I’m not very familiar with Red Devon’s. The farm you got them from may have some suggestions on getting purebred semen if you want to go that route...you may also be able to search “Red Devon Semen.”


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## RollingAcres (Apr 12, 2018)

I did find some Red Devon cattle farms in NY and i had emailed them about selling the red Devon semen. Haven't heard anything back yet. Also found one in Indiana who advertised on Red Devon USA website.


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## RollingAcres (Apr 12, 2018)

We really didn't know anything or even heard about Red Devon before we bought ours. We saw both ads on Craigslist one day and the price was right. We did a quick search and read about Red Devon and decided to get them.


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## Wehner Homestead (Apr 12, 2018)

It never hurts to explore your options before you decide what route best fits your situation.


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## goats&moregoats (Apr 13, 2018)

Perdy Cows! I am not a cow farmer, but they look good.


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## RollingAcres (Apr 13, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> They are pretty!



Thank you!


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## RollingAcres (Apr 13, 2018)

goats&moregoats said:


> Perdy Cows! I am not a cow farmer, but they look good.



Thank you @goats&moregoats ! We really like their "Red" color!


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## Wehner Homestead (Apr 30, 2018)

Is Scaper in the second pic you posted? If so, she appears large enough to be bred. Another comparison pic idea would be the two side by side and reminding me of their age difference...


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## RollingAcres (May 1, 2018)

Yes the second pic. She will be 15 months comes July. She just looks much smaller compares to my other female.


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## greybeard (May 1, 2018)

A bit light in girth/thickness/length compared to the other deep bodied red devons I've seen pictures of. I'd want to breed them to something that would add some length and depth to them...add some muscle and rear end. 
red devons


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## RollingAcres (May 1, 2018)

Thanks @greybeard!


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## farmerjan (May 1, 2018)

Looking at the pics reminds me that way back, in this country, and probably many others, red devons as well as our red polls, were more of a dual purpose animal.  So the older type didn't have the muscle or the "butts" on them.  A couple of the pics showed them being milked.  In New England they were a triple purpose animal;  milk, meat and draft.  They are bred more for meat nowadays.  Hence the reasoning behind GB saying to get a bull that will put depth and muscle and rear end on them.  I find that our red polls do not have the butts I like to see, but our original cows were more of the dual purpose type.


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## greybeard (May 1, 2018)

Red Polls are a dang good breed and really shine in a good crossbreeding program.


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## RollingAcres (May 2, 2018)

@greybeard and @farmerjan so how/what do I look at when selecting a bull(we will most probably go with AI) that will put some depth and muscle and rear end on them?
I have posted here https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/rolling-acres-this-and-that.37787/page-3#post-550120 on the 3 bulls we have picked out. Redemption is one of them. Just wondering based on the info on the pic below, is there a way to tell if the bull can put add some depth and rear end.


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## greybeard (May 2, 2018)

RollingAcres said:


> @greybeard and @farmerjan so how/what do I look at when selecting a bull(we will most probably go with AI) that will put some depth and muscle and rear end on them?
> I have posted here https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/rolling-acres-this-and-that.37787/page-3#post-550120 on the 3 bulls we have picked out. Redemption is one of them. Just wondering based on the info on the pic below, is there a way to tell if the bull can put add some depth and rear end. View attachment 47697


If he don't there's something bad wrong. 
He's standing a bit funny, but look at the whole mass of rump muscle behind that rear leg and hooks to pins. There are some with a more prominent rump but that one will work for sure.

If you are unsure what to look for in a heifer, here's a slide presentation that show length, depth and width pretty good as well as proper leg and hoof structure in beef cattle heifers. (there will be an ad of some kind open right below the slide box you can close (click the X) before beginning the slide presentation.)
http://slideplayer.com/slide/5791638/#

When we speak of adding 'rump' we aren't just talking about the onion ass or caboose behind the leg.  You won't be getting a great big bulbous btt like you see in double muscled breeds (Belgian Blues) or even like you see in the Blonde d'Aquitaine, but you should see a good addition of muscle back there using a bull such as you pictured. The way we use the rump term, it generally includes the round and it's in 3 dimensions.  
1. Length of the rear from hooks to pin bones.
2. Height from top of shank to top of rump--just below the tailhead.
3. Depth of that muscle from just inside the skin to centerline of backbone.
A different breed of course, but a pretty good example. I probably have the front vertical part of these lines a bit rearward of where they actually are, but this heifer has a great 'rump'.  Lots of distance between hooks and pins. She is also very long bodied for her breed--inner distance between front and rear legs.


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## RollingAcres (May 2, 2018)

Got it! Thanks @greybeard !


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## greybeard (May 2, 2018)

What do you think of these?









anybody?


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## RollingAcres (May 3, 2018)

Oh no it's a test! 
As in rump/rear end?


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## farmerjan (May 3, 2018)

greybeard said:


> What do you think of these?
> 
> View attachment 47700
> 
> ...


Ist one needs to never breed a cow....Looks like a dairy cross and needs some groceries.  Second one is a lot better...


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## greybeard (May 3, 2018)

Yep, I've seen some rangy old Corriente ropers that looked better and sure not much rump muscling  evident, but they're young yet and have  hidden attributes.
Rule #1. Never breed for just one specific trait.
HEB is a Texas based grocery chain, known for pretty good meat prices..I buy most of mine from them, but this 1st brisket is a bit out of what I would normally pay...for brisket, but worth every penny.
The 2nd one is a prime CAB brisket. The first one is not, but snickers and haughtily laughs at CAB.


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## greybeard (May 4, 2018)

The top brisket, is American Wagyu. So are the 2 bulls posted above.
Wagyu are not much to look at, but I were younger and going to start over, they are what I would be raising.


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## Latestarter (May 4, 2018)

Now THAT is what marbling of meat is supposed to look like. That steak is gonna cut with a wave of the fork & melt in your mouth.


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## farmerjan (May 4, 2018)

I figured they might be Wagyu but didn't want to be too much of a smart *** and then have you tell me they were some cull stockyard crap. They don't have much "butt" and really are built more like a dairy animal.    I have found that my Jerseys will marble nearly that good so I am perfectly happy to raise them.  I also have found that I don't like that much marbling in my meat.  I want more flavor and actual meat to eat.  I have always liked my hamburger to be very lean, as well as my steaks.  But then, I don't cook them to death either, I like my stuff done rare.  Another benefit of having your own beef, you don't have the same worries about "under cooking"  when it is your meat killed at your local butcher.


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## greybeard (May 4, 2018)

farmerjan said:


> I figured they might be Wagyu but didn't want to be too much of a smart *** and then have you tell me they were some cull stockyard crap



No, not culls, tho there are a lot of fantastic looking Wagyu bulls too with plenty of rearend.  Until they mature, Wagyu are often some of the sorriest "looking' cattle you will ever see. 

I made the Wagyu posts in the manner I did to emphasize that phenotype isn't everything..not even close. No one eats the outside of a cow--well, not usually and very very rarely in this country anyway. Color, pattern, horned/polled..none of that matters. 
It does little good to feed out an animal and raise it to slaughter weight only to end up with a LOT of very tough beef.
Quality, yield, feed effeciency, grade, tenderness all have to come together.
and always remember.......the E in EPD stands for "expected" not 'established'.


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## RollingAcres (May 5, 2018)

greybeard said:


> No one eats
> It does little good to feed out an animal and raise it to slaughter weight only to end up with a LOT of very tough beef.
> Quality, yield, feed effeciency, grade, tenderness all have to come together.
> and always remember.......the E in EPD stands for "expected" not 'established'.


Since I don't know much on this yet and still learning, please pardon me if my questions sound stupid. 
Are there certain ways to raise an animal to be good grade/tenderness?


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## Latestarter (May 5, 2018)

You've no doubt seen those stainless steel mallets they call meat tenderizers? Well, at least once a week, you need to go out and use one on all the large muscles of the animal. To them it's kinda the equivalent of what a Swedish massage is to us.  This will prove to be an excellent exercise routine for you and the animal as well... It chasing you, and you running for your life!


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## RollingAcres (May 5, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> You've no doubt seen those stainless steel mallets they call meat tenderizers? Well, at least once a week, you need to go out and use one on all the large muscles of the animal. To them it's kinda the equivalent of what a Swedish massage is to us.  This will prove to be an excellent exercise routine for you and the animal as well... It chasing you, and you running for your life!


Sure and I'll be sure to video thus exercise routine and send it to Ameicas funniest videos. Who knows maybe I'll win!


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## RollingAcres (May 5, 2018)

I'm sure that you know kobe beef get their massages everyday


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## farmerjan (Jun 21, 2018)

Most of the beef that comes from Wagyu are fed special diets.  The "massages" are somewhat exaggerated but for animals in confinement it has been done.  They are fed a special rice hay and other things.  Much of tenderness is in the genes, some is in the feeding.  
Wagyu are the most tender. Jerseys are the 2nd most tender beef in all tests done. Then Guernsey, then the different beef breeds, with Angus and Hereford considered the next 2.

I like my jersey beef and they are alot more affordable to get and raise.  We have looked at some Wagyu semen to cross on some of the dairy x beef cows and I may try some next year.  Much semen is sexed now and you can get semen that is 90%  accurate for either a female or a male calf.  Not all breeds or sires within a breed are available, but there are some.


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## Baymule (Jun 21, 2018)

I've had Wagyu steaks and they were fabulous. So good!

I have one of those meat mallets.....used to have 2 of them. I'd buy the family packs of round steak, untenderized. I gave each kid a mallet and let them beat the crap out of that round steak. They yelled POW! POW! POW! at the top of their little lungs with each whack. DD was 11 years old when she finally asked, "Just what kind of meat_ is_ Pow-Pow steak?"


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## greybeard (Jun 21, 2018)

I used to...long long ago..use the mallet. I didn't care for flattened out meat and blood spatter.  Now, the device I use is similar to one of these. A Jaccard with 56 knives.


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## jhm47 (Jun 21, 2018)

I crossed Wagyu with some of my cows.  The calves seemed to be small, and didn't have much vigor.  They were a lot smaller than my regular calves at weaning, even when raised by my better cows.  I sold some to neighbors who were very curious about them, and raised a couple myself to butcher.  They were very slow growing, and my "regular" calves reached slaughter weight far sooner than the Wagyu.  The neighbors got impatient and slaughtered theirs at about 900 - 1000 lbs.  They said that the meat was good, but not as spectacular as they expected.  I kept mine to about 1450 lbs, and the meat was exceptional.  It was very tender, extremely well marbled, and tasted great.  However, they ate enormous amounts of corn, took over two years to reach slaughter weight, and I don't feel that they were vigorous enough to be a realistic breed that I'd want to raise.  JMHO!


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## RollingAcres (Jun 21, 2018)

farmerjan said:


> Wagyu are the most tender. Jerseys are the 2nd most tender beef in all tests done. Then Guernsey, then the different beef breeds, with Angus and Hereford considered the next 2.


And here I thought Jerseys are just dairy cattle. Don't get me wrong i know that the ground beef sold in stores are often from dairy steers of some sort unless specified as Angus. 



Baymule said:


> Just what kind of meat_ is_ Pow-Pow steak?"


Pow-pow steak, i like that!


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## farmerjan (Jun 21, 2018)

@jhm47  ,  Interesting that you tried some Wagyu .  I do know from extensive reading on them, that the average age is 30 months when they are butchered.  That translates into alot of feed.  Yes, they are smaller, many are "dairy looking" with not alot of "beefiness" to them.  I don't have any direct experience with raising them but do know that they are usually smaller at birth.  I did not know that there were "hardiness" issues. 
I have heard many people say that jerseys are not hardy, but I find that to be the opposite case.  The BIGGEST PROBLEM with anyone raising jerseys is OVERFEEDING them milk when they are little.  I find jersey calves to be very vigorous and "tough" but I don't try to feed them like they are holsteins or other crossbreds.  They are usually quick to learn what grain is for also.  They do better on a nurse cow where they can get frequent feedings of not so much milk at one time.  I raise alot of jersey and jersey cross calves.  It also depends on whether they get a couple of good feedings of colostrum before they are sold off the farm.  That is true for any calf, but I find that the ones I am now getting off one of my farms, are some of the best calves I have ever gotten.  Those calves do not even get taken from the cow for 24 hours;  they are getting all the colostrum they want in small "doses".  And he continues  to feed the cows milk to the calf until it is either sold, or kept to be raised up (heifers).  He also does not feed milk replacer, but whole cows milk to his calves.  

@RollingAcres ;  yes jerseys are a dairy breed. But the bull calves do make very good beef.  That is all I have put in my freezer for 20 years.  The thing about them is most people want to see a "beefy" animal to take to butcher.... and angus have been touted as "the beef breed".  Jerseys do require some grain until they are over a year old, but do finish very good on grass once they get over that growing stage.  If you leave them on a cow until they are in the 5-600 plus range, they will do good on mostly pasture with very little supplemental grain.  The thing with most "dairy breed calves" everyone tries to get them "off the bottle" asap;  then if you do not feed enough protein as in grain, they get very pot-bellied and it takes a long time for them to look like anything.  If you ever see say a holstein bull calf that someone has grafted on a beef cow that lost her calf, they are very nice and well filled out when they are weaned in the 6-8 month range and will continue to "go forward" from there.  They will require a little supplementation, but nothing like a calf weaned at 8-12 weeks and expected to grow  and not fed more than mostly hay.


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