# Can I muscle up goats milk?



## Our7Wonders (Jun 22, 2011)

I've read that some add things to cows milk to add extra calories for goats that aren't eating well or aren't thriving.  Adding evaporated milk, buttermilk, and nutridrench.  Can I do this with goats milk as well?  I don't really see a reason I couldn't, but then I've been wrong about alot of things lately.  Case in point:  Bought a new doeling - not on the bottle, three weeks old.  I managed to get ALL my bucklings onto a bottle this year - two were nearly two weeks old, one was almost 3 weeks and another was pushing 4 weeks.  Two took to it right away, one was a days effort and another was a willing paricipant by day two, and like a champ by day 3.  

This new girl, not so much.  I can force a bottle into her - it's messy and she doesn't like it and I'm squeezing the pop bottle the whole time because she's not sucking at all - but it's keeping her alive.  I'm up to 3 12 oz bottles - and she's not actually swallowing all of that - so I'd like to increase calories/nutrition if I can.  What do ya think?


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 22, 2011)

Oh, and I'll post pics and her introduction soon - just trying to work through the kinks first.


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## Roll farms (Jun 22, 2011)

I wouldn't, or if you do, do it so gradually as to make it almost unnoticeable at first.  Dietary changes, esp. when stressed out, could start a raging case o' the poos.

Myself, I'm against adding anything to any milk...just my opinion...my kids do fine on milk alone (I know yours is an exception b/c she doesn't want to eat at all) but 'mother nature' doesn't add anything to milk once colostrum's done.

Have you tried offering her the milk in a pan / bowl?

I'd probably skip her last bottle tonight, and then try in the morning.  Maybe a skipped meal will make her hungry enough to try.

Be sure you leave plenty of hay / fresh water around her, and kid feed...maybe she'll supplement herself.

I would think you're having better luck w/ your kids b/c they're tasting 'their' milk, so to speak...it tastes like 'home'.

Best of luck w/ her.


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## doxiemoxie (Jun 22, 2011)

This raises so many questions!

Will she suckle your finger?  Is she nibbling at grain and hay?  Drinking water?  Was there a problem that she was pulled from mom at three weeks?

I also worry that you can cause her to aspirate milk if you're squeezing the bottle to force milk in.

+++ the advice Rolls gives +++ sometimes raising the pan a little off the floor helps them drink too.

good luck and keep us posted.


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 22, 2011)

She'll drink from a bowl - but not in the quantity that I'd like her to.  She'll nibble grain and her hay.  She doesn't suck on my fingers - but nibbles on them, and my hair, and my clothes, and my shoes - she likes to nibble!

I've been on the lookout for an Oberhasli.  I happened upon a dairy a few hours from me who has a naturally raised oberhasli farm - a raw milk dairy.  She has 100+ oberhaslis.  I'm longing for a good milking QUIET doe (the opposite of my non-stop screaming nubian).  I asked all the right questions before making the three hour trip over (health related, ya know, CL, CAE, vaccination, cocci, worming, breeding questions).  But I didn't ask if they were dam raised or bottle raised - I just assumed bottle, since they were being sold.  Nope.  I don't know the complete *why* behind it.  I know she was behind this year, more so than other years and for whatever reason didn't have the intern(s) that she normally did.  Things were being left undone that normally were not.  And I'm a sucker for a cute goatie face.  

I managed to get my bucklings on to a bottle at a later date so I figured I was up to the challenge.  And she's sweet and adorable, and QUIET - and did I mention sweet?  She's also stubborn.  So here I am, struggling with her.  She hates the bottle.  But I need her to eat - so it gets forced on her.  She'll lap it out a bowl - but not the 40-60 ounces she should be getting each day.  I'm guessing from the bottle she only actually swallows 20-30 ounces total.  I'm preparing a 12 ounce bottle (3x daily) and I stick it out until it's gone - but we're losing at least a couple ounces on the ground, on her chin, on me.  I've needed a shower after each feeding.  Milk is stickier than I'd ever imagined.

I did have her skip a bottle completely, hoping it would help at the next feeding.  I've done it a couple times actually (not back to back though).  It doesn't seem to help - she just views it as torture.   I'll keep trying the bowl, perhaps smaller amounts more frequently.  I've thought about putting a little milk on some grain for her too.  Or maybe on small amounts of fresh veggies.

So I've learned a hard lesson - and my sweet little doe has had to bear the brunt of that decision.  My goal now, is to keep pushing milk in her until the earliest possible weaning date and in the mean time try to encourage as many other nutritional extras that I can - be it hay, grain, veggies, tree branches, weeds etc.


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## currycomb (Jun 22, 2011)

are you milking a goat now? maybe put the doeling on the milk stand before you milk one and let her get a decent feeding in at least once a day, direct from the goat. you can then clean the doe up and finish milking her


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## doxiemoxie (Jun 22, 2011)

> And I'm a sucker for a cute goatie face.


Aren't we all!  Don't be hard on yourself.  There's nothing wrong with taking on a hard luck case and there are, regrettably, way too many people out there willing to gloss over important information just to get rid of a problem or make some money.  It just helps if you know there's a problem up front.

The reason I asked about her suckling is that some kids don't have a strong suck reflex.  Sometimes it is because they are "tongue-tied" just like in human babies.  Is she using her tongue when she's nibbling? sticking it out when she calls?

Did you try the ol' sweet stuff on the nipple?  (molasses, honey, jam)

You might consider tube feeding her just to get it done quickly and with much less mess.  Plus you'll be more certain as to volume she's actually consuming.

If that isn't an option for you then, if it were me, I would consider slowly introducing her to yoghurt or a kefir and maybe calf manna.

I hope this is all coming across as helpful and caring and not like I'm some not it all (I am so NOT!)


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## freemotion (Jun 22, 2011)

Yikes, flashbacks!!!  I got Ginger as a baby pulled from her mama and I was assured that I could get her right onto a bottle.  Ha.  That baby doeling I raised gave me many tears, worry, sleepless nights, cussing out the person who sold her to me.  But if it makes you feel better, she is a grandma!  Yup, her first doeling is the one that had tangled triplets this year, and the "weaned early" girl had a set of triplets herself this year.  Big, strong doe.  So hang in there, and don't worry.

I raise my babies on 3 ten ounce bottles a day once they are two weeks (down from 4 ten ounce bottles) and they do great!  So she is eating plenty of milk.  Keep doing what you are doing and be patient.  I could not get that much into my little one, but she was about 5 weeks when I got her home, and I suspect the guy mis-spoke and maybe she was a bit older.

She got hardly any milk into her.  She flat out refused it.  If I remember correctly, a great day was 4-5 ounces, but it was hard to tell....I'd have to weigh my clothes to be sure!  I put carrot peels in the milk, grain, molasses, sugar, I tried it all.  She learned to fish out the goodies. 

She stopped crying and going out to the pasture all by her tiny self once I started adding slightly sprouted barley.  Just an ounce or two twice a day was all it took to give her the protein she desperately needed.  I also hung bundles of branches as I've promoted on many threads as it really grows big, healthy babies.

Remember, 30 ounces a day is all my 2-week olds are getting and they all thrive.  That is all most babies that are dam-raised get if they are twins or triplets, unless it is a Saanen or other extreme producer.  "Normal" babies get less milk.  They have to learn to eat solid food more quickly and it is good for them.......breathe!  You are doing great and she will be just fine in your capable hands!


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 22, 2011)

Thanks all!  

I put a little glug of molasses into a bowl of milk this afternoon and she drank most all of it - willingly!  No fuss - AND I remained clean!  I'd rather not fight her on it - it's not good for either of us - so if I can get her to take 2 or 3 bowls of milk a day I'll be a happy camper.

I know too much molasses isn't good for a goat - do you think a tsp. or so in each bowl to encourage her to drink it would be ok?  

I'm sprouting barley for her - she's getting soaked grain in the meantime.  I've got some pine and fir trees that she loves to nibble on - I let her prune them for me.  And I'll introduce shredded carrots soon.  

She is a doll!  A little on the skinny side now, but she's so very sweet - and quite affectionate.  I'll get the camera out there soon.

thanks again!


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## Roll farms (Jun 22, 2011)

Obs are my favorites.

Just...don't tell my Nubians or I will *never* hear the end of it.

Get it?  HEAR the end of it?


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 22, 2011)

I really think I'm going to like them myself.  I love my Nubies, I really do - but I just can't take the yelling.  Jasmine and her baby are quiet unless there's a legitimate reason (feeding time, calling for baby etc) but not Ariel.  She's just obnoxious - she's gonna have to go, sooner than not.

I'll tell ya, I was SO impressed with the Obs at the farm I went to.  She has over 100 goats there - and combined they didn't make the noise that my ONE nubian makes.  Sold. Me. Right. There.  Never mind that she's the most affectionate goat I've been around before.  She has my heart already!  Now if I can just get some calories in her.

And I knew you loved your OBs - it was upon your recommendation when I was inquiring about mellow goats that I started to look at them myself.  I've not found ANY in my area during my search over the past several months (or lamanchas, I've been looking at both).  I jumped on the opportunity when the dairy info came my way.  It was a three hour drive one way with 5 little kiddos in tow - then I had to fight through Seattle rush hour traffic to get back home (you don't know rush hour traffic until you drive in Seattle - HORRIBLE!!) but she was worth it!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jun 23, 2011)

Freemotion, I don't know if I have seen your branches recommendations.... Any specific trees?


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## Mossy Stone Farm (Jun 23, 2011)

Our7 WondersI, 


Did you get your orb, in Lake Stevens/Marysville??? Over here on the West side of the hill?


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 23, 2011)

Yes, from St. Johns Creamery.  She's an Okanogan Oberhasli.  I don't know anything about them - just that they had Obs when I couldn't find them anywhere else.


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## Dreaming Of Goats (Jun 23, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Obs are my favorites.
> 
> Just...don't tell my Nubians or I will *never* hear the end of it.
> 
> Get it?  HEAR the end of it?


x2... I LOVE my obie, I don't know why they aren't as popular or more popular then the nubs!!!


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## Mossy Stone Farm (Jun 23, 2011)

I thought so  they are the only one i know around here that have Obs.. That's where i go get my milk if i am running low, we are about 15 mins north of them.. We are picking up a doeling later this summer 


My daughter really wants to show one and have her own goat....:/


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 23, 2011)

She's been very behind this year on her dehorning and such - apparantly she lost her intern (or interns?).  She does have some polled doelings too - but just a heads up that alot of her babies have horns and are past the age where most people are comfortable dehorning.  

I have to buy a buckling each year to raise for breeding season - my nubian buckling is about as loud as my nubian doe that I'll be selling soon (need to keep her for now so I have milk for the new doeling).  Next year I think I may get an Ob buckling and a wether buddy from St. Johns - It's astonishing to me how quiet they are!  And this little doeling, despite being dam raised and not having tons of people interaction (around them, but not lots of hands on interation) is so very affectionate.  She just loves to cuddle and be loved on.


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## Mossy Stone Farm (Jun 23, 2011)

Yes she was saying she was having a tuff time getting help, not sure she is able to pay much 

I have a pretty quite bunch of Nubains only holler when they see me coming with food, or when something isnt right. 

Never ever at night even when the dogs are out chaseing racoons.

 My buck got a little mouthy he got the collar and has been good ever since.

I do like the obs milk it has a different flavor then the nubs maybe a tad sweeter  


So do you think you'll get out of the Nubains


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm hoping to keep Jasmine who is my quiet doe and her baby.  Both of them are pretty mellow - unless, like yours, it's feeding time - and I don't hold that against them.

I put the collar on my buckling earlier today - we'll see if it helps.  

Funny though, after my last post here I spoke to my hubby about next years possibility of using an Ob buck for breeding.  After mulling it around we're considering not waiting.  Instead - selling both my loud doe AND my loud buckling and getting an Ob buck and wether now for breeding this year.  It would mean I'll have a few nube/ob crosses - but I was going to anyway if we breed our ob doeling this year.  I spoke to Marcia already and she said she could set some aside for me - the main thing holding me back is the feeding issue.  With the molasses in the milk today I've got the doeling eating well from a bowl.  She drank 12oz this a.m. - cleaned up the bowl and we only lost the bit that dribbled from her hairy chin.  I was much cleaner and so was she (except for her chin!)  I'm just not sure I want to go through that with the others.  I'll call her tomorrow to see what she has availabe and what the ages are, that will be a huge factor in my decision process.

Oh, and she's got more interns on so hopefully she'll be getting caught up soon. 

Seems like I'm always reformulating my plan.


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## Mossy Stone Farm (Jun 23, 2011)

The obs where my second choice when i was looking for goats. I really love my nubains .
But i can see myself adding a few obs now that we are in the swing of things, just because i love how pretty they are,and i like the milk... 

Sounds like your little one is getting the hang of drinking.. What did you name her, i'd love to see pictures when you get a chance, i know you must be very busy....


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## freemotion (Jun 23, 2011)

CrownofThornsNDGoats said:
			
		

> Freemotion, I don't know if I have seen your branches recommendations.... Any specific trees?


Just find out what is safe in your area and is readily available to you.   I can get birch, sugar maple, poplar, apple, grape vines, goldenrod, staghorn sumac, etc.  I bundle them tightly with a ball bungee and clip that to a snap hung at the perfect height so the branches are in reach but not dragging on the ground.


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## Roll farms (Jun 24, 2011)

My only drawback w/ obs is at kidding time.

In fact, I sold my Ob buck who is a doll, b/c I 'blamed' him for all our kidding problems.  Sold my other 2 Ob does, one even came from a different breeder.

Every kid was big, hard to get out....I figured it must be his 'fault'...

Found out it's not...even our Togg boy (who's other kids weighed at max 8#) gave Penny that 12# monster kid.

I spoke to Penny's breeder at length, he conceded he *does* have more single / large kids born w/ his Obs than he does w/ the Nigis or random other breeds he's owned.

Now, I am in no way implying you will have the same problems, your Obs are clear across the country from mine...just saying that *if* mine had had an easier time kidding, I'd probably have 10 Obs by now.

I hope yours spit their babies out easily!


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 24, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> My only drawback w/ obs is at kidding time.
> 
> Every kid was big, hard to get out....I figured it must be his 'fault'...
> 
> ...


Definately good to know!  I'll be on high alert, just in case, come baby time.  I'll be talking to  the gal I bought her from today anyway - since she has 100+ I'll ask her take on it.  I can't imagine 100 difficult births every year - eeks!  I don't like the thought of one, can you imagine!


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## aggieterpkatie (Jun 24, 2011)

My Ob doe has a fine time kidding.  Not fine as in "boy this is fun, we're having a fine time!" but fine as in does ok without needing help.  Well, I did help her with her buck kid just a tad this year, but she probably would have been fine.  She's had normal sized twins both kiddings I've had her.


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