# Bottle Baby Feeding



## mysunwolf (Mar 25, 2015)

Don't ask me why I am torturing myself with more bottle baby lambs. Worst way to increase the flock. Can't seem to resist them, though. Ugh.

So I'm asking for HELP once again from you all, and promising not to add any more bottle lambs... this season. Here the looong story:

Right now I have two bottle lambs and am having trouble with both of them. I was told they were 1.5 weeks old, though they're a little small. I did not get any replacer from the farm to switch them over, but I purchased the TSC brand that they were supposedly being fed. I'm not aware of how they were being fed, but I'm beginning to think it was not from a bottle. I feel like an idiot again. I just want some nice, trustworthy farmers to sell me some nice, healthy sheep. 

The little one is doing okay and has taken to the bottle, but she will only drink about 1/4 cup lamb replacer at a time before she gets full and quits. I am feeding her 7x a day, but none at night. So far she is doing okay but really should be getting closer to 3 cups of replacer daily for her age. She is not very keen on the creep feed.

The big one has a little bit of crud around the eyes and nose. We are putting VetRx on it, no other symptoms of respiratory stress and I did just transport them 1hr yesterday. She will absolutely NOT drink out of the bottle. However, she is chowing down on her creep feed like there's no tomorrow. She also grinds her teeth routinely, but temp is normal. My first guess is that it's digestive pain, but I'm not sure. She is terrified of people, does not search for a teat, and will only chew on a nipple, no sucking action. Do I take away her creep feed? I can't get either replacer or electrolytes into her, so I'm worried about removing the creep feed. I was thinking of trying to feed her milk replacer from a bowl. 

Both are having mushy, mustard-yellowy baby poop. The larger lamb is having very mild scours and I have seen a brown-green poop from her. Both lambs are nibbling hay (their bedding, unfortunately) and drinking from a little water dish. I will try to get weights this evening. Still don't have a lamb tube (and none of my farm stores have one) so that's not an option right now. I'm ordering one before our lambing. I have killed calves with tube feeding though so I am wary about it. 

Any advice? If not me, do it for the lambs  (Apologies for the blurry photo.)


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## Hens and Roos (Mar 25, 2015)

sorry about the little ones  maybe you should try putting milk into their bowl and see if they drink.

Hope someone with more experience has some more ideas for you!

They are cute!


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 25, 2015)

The age looks about right. I would take the creep feed away for now. Those babies need to be on milk. Their digestive systems are not ready for just adult feed, probably why the one is grinding her teeth. 

I would drop their feedings to 4x a day so that they are hungrier between feedings. 

For stubborn babies, I stick them between my legs and squeeze just enough to hold them in place. Then I get a finger in the mouth and slip the nipple in. One hand goes under the chin to keep the baby from spitting the bottle out. Generally after a few swallows (the milk is probably dribbling from the nipple into their mouth) they will start sucking. It often takes several sessions like this to get them to the point where they take the bottle on their own.


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 25, 2015)

You could try what Hens and Roos suggested as well. Since they drink water from a dish, they might drink the milk that way. Wouldn't hurt to try. 

What is their story? Have they been on mom until recently? Did mom die or were the babies pulled? That info could be helpful in figuring out how to work with them.


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## mysunwolf (Mar 25, 2015)

Thank you @purplequeenvt and @Hens and Roos, awesome suggestions! 

I was told they were pulled off the moms fairly recently (not sure when) and that they were on replacer. They are not sisters, each of their moms apparently had one teat lose function and could only feed one twin, so one lamb from each set of twins was pulled. They have had colostrum!

Tried the bowl trick--put the bowl a little off the ground so there's not the neck angle issues--and the little one figured it out very quickly. The big one is uninterested, even when I dip her muzzle in it. Her temp is 102. I have not seen her poop recently, I'm worried she is constipated but don't want to give mineral oil for fear of causing her to scour. Her belly does feel a little full but her sides are caved in bad right now. I'm leaving the cold replacer in a bowl to see if she might magically find it. 

Would a drop of mineral oil hurt if she is not constipated?

Since we've gotten them, I've tried what you described with holding them to get them to nurse. The little one caught on after a few feedings. But the big one just won't suck at all. She has tasted the milk at every feeding and is not interested. She just sits there and chews and chews at the teat.
We've put the milk on a finger and put that in her mouth, where she chews on it, and then replaced with a nipple, that she chews on.  I forgot that the first few weeks are just like this, especially with lambs. Makes me appreciate a goat.


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## AriesX (Mar 25, 2015)

I hope those lambs figure out how to drink milk!  Have you tried anal stimulation to stimulate the urge to suck?  I don't know if that would work on older lambs, but it works with newborns.


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 25, 2015)

Do you have access to raw goat or cow milk? I've found that lambs will switch very easily from mom's milk to a bottle of real milk. I suspect that milk replacer has a different flavor that some lambs don't care for. 

My bottle lamb is on milk replacer solely because my Jersey was drying off and there wasn't enough milk to go around (and the stupid goats didn't get bred when they were supposed to). If I had the option, it would be Jersey or goat milk for any and all bottle lambs.


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## she-earl (Mar 26, 2015)

I have found that lots of smaller feedings are better for them than giving them less feedings but more milk per feeding is best.  I use cows milk instead of milk replacer.  Also make sure the milk is warm.  I have been supplementing my twin rams the past week because mom was sick.  The one lamb likes "more of the nipple" and the other one "less of the nipple".


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## mysunwolf (Mar 26, 2015)

I have always heard many smaller feedings until I talked to large-scale producers or read the replacer packages. I'm sure smaller feedings is easier on the babe but I am not always home all day. I tried the small feedings with the little lamb and she seemed to want to take less and less at each feeding, whereas if I give her more time between feedings she will suck down more without realizing how much she is drinking--which in my case is good since she is still not getting what she should be for her age.

What do you mean by more of the nipple/less of the nipple?

I have some raw goats milk and raw cows milk but both sheep rejected the goat milk right off, which is why they are currently on lamb replacer. I could try offering the goat milk again to the large ewe and see if she likes that better!


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## mysunwolf (Mar 26, 2015)

Okay, big lamb took to the goats milk a little better today! If I can get her to chew & dribble 1/4 cup per feeding she at least will have enough energy to get to the next feeding, for now. I have gotten both lambs to suck a little electrolytes from a bowl in between feedings. Little lamb can routinely get about 1/4 cup replacer per feeding in her before she becomes too tired. Her max is 1/2 cup.

Really hoping I can figure out how to help these two make it!


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## mysunwolf (Mar 26, 2015)

Both had almost a 1 cup feeding this afternoon of goats milk  That's exactly what I want!  Guess we are switching completely to goats milk and ditching the replacer. It's awful to try to get the big one to suck at all, but @AriesX I had completely forgot about anal stimulation, and it worked! She is sucking on the teat much more than before, though still mostly chewing. We will keep working with her.

Poops on the little one are looking good, and lots of them! Still no sign of poops from the big one, gave her 6cc mineral oil last night. Maybe I'll give some molasses with her bottle this evening and see if that helps. I think the creep feed stopped her whole system right up.


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## Hens and Roos (Mar 26, 2015)

Glad to hear that you are getting them to eat some!


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## mysunwolf (Mar 27, 2015)

Thanks @Hens and Roos, I'm so glad! We're not out of the woods yet, the big one's system is still slowed and she didn't take a bottle this morning. She is also having really runny poop, though the little one's poop is not great either. I can't remember what it's supposed to look like at this age, someone needs to make a chart  Right now it's a mustardy consistency and color (yellowish to orangeish), but sometimes brownish/oliveish. Really messy on their butts and legs, so I've been cleaning them. Not watery though. Hope the poops get more solid soon. These lambs are too cute, poop and all.


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## Sweetened (Mar 27, 2015)

Oregano oil will help with Scours if you have it on hand; two drops of 60% carvacol should do as it's potent as all mess  I would suggest adding some commercial buttermilk or yogurt into their bottle for some probiotics.  The change over from replacer to real milk might be what's causing runny butt syndrome! I like to mix conventional high fat buttermilk into slightly warm milk, shake and let stand for a couple minutes to allow the good cultures to proliferate.  With yogurt I prefer to mix and leave it over night on the counter to encourage growth.


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## mysunwolf (Mar 27, 2015)

Sweetened said:


> Oregano oil will help with Scours if you have it on hand; two drops of 60% carvacol should do as it's potent as all mess  I would suggest adding some commercial buttermilk or yogurt into their bottle for some probiotics.  The change over from replacer to real milk might be what's causing runny butt syndrome! I like to mix conventional high fat buttermilk into slightly warm milk, shake and let stand for a couple minutes to allow the good cultures to proliferate.  With yogurt I prefer to mix and leave it over night on the counter to encourage growth.



I really wish I had some oregano oil on hand, especially for use with the poultry, but keep forgetting to order it. We are including excess whey from yogurt in with the bottles, I will have to remember to let it sit out at room temp, love that idea. I'm also smearing a tsp of yogurt on the big lamb's tongue a few times a day for some extra probios.

For other with bottle lamb or kid problems, I found a great resource on scours. Looks like it is just the switchover. Hoping by 2 weeks old their systems will straighten themselves out.

Do you all think I should alternate milk feedings with electrolytes like I would do with replacer? Or just stick to adding probios to the diet? Maybe some scour-stop meds or something like that?


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## Sweetened (Mar 27, 2015)

I wouldn't mess with anything you're doing.  Electrolytes work on hydration, probiotics restore gut balance.  I think it might be more important to get milk in her over electrolytes as you want the nutrition; and with the milk you're getting fluids; you can give sub-Q saline if you're worried about dehydration.  Have you considered tubing her?  I've never done it, but I think it's a skill I need to learn.

Probiotics will never hurt in any situation, so pairing them with whatever treatment will be beneficial.  Do you have Grapefruit Seed Extract?  It could be used in place of Oregano oil using about 5 drops instead of 2 (can mix it into a bottle).  My other suggestion would be if you're using those black or brownish lamb nipples, try an easier nipple like the red vented pritchard nipples.  When we had the triplets there, I tried the black ones initially but they take sucking power -- the pritchard nipple was learned quickly and i have now merged them to the black ones.

Good luck, my fingers are crossed for you.


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## mysunwolf (Mar 27, 2015)

Hang on, my VetRx has oregano oil as the fourth ingredient (alcohol, balsam, camphor, then origanum). It says it can be used internally as well. Would that be an okay substitute? Don't have any GSE. We have them on the pritchard nipples, the lambs always seem to take to those easier than the others. And luckily they will both occasionally sip at the water bowl, so I am not too worried about fluids. Lamb tube is on my list to order this week in prep for our lambing! I'm sure we're going to need it.

Both lambs have sucked at the bottle for the rest of todays feedings, though .

The lambs are currently chowing down on straw... huh.

Thank you @Sweetened, as usual you have some incredibly helpful thoughts and advice!


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## Sweetened (Mar 27, 2015)

You're looking for the active constituent: Carvacol.  Origanum will not have he same potency but i can't see it not helping.  Camphor is an expectorant (i think this is the right term), so it makes coughs effective and causes the lungs to expell material like phlegm and mucous (not recommended for internal use for humans).  Balsam is a fir, so would have immune boosting properties like vitamin C

I appreciate your words, but I'm not sure how helpful, ahaha.  Glad things are going alright today.


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