# a few questions



## oxdrover14 (Apr 13, 2010)

my two boer does just had their babys two baby grils buttercup and bebe i was wondersin how long do i have to keep them seperate i have a large birthing pen with a center divider and i was wondering when i can let them in together for the first time and does anyone have a checklist of what the kids will need done in the next couple of weeks? we are raising them for pets.


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## cmjust0 (Apr 13, 2010)

I'm not sure I'd put two mamas with babies in a pen together, but then again it sorta depends on the mamas' temperaments and the size of the pen.  It's not that I'd be so concerned about the mamas fighting each other as I would each mama trying to squash the other mama's baby.

Some -- many -- do that even in the field..  My personal opinion is that kids are only safe around non-mama adults when there's plenty of room to escape.  

Another closely-related personal opinion is that baby goats are pretty much fully ambulatory within a few hours and are downright diggity fast within a day or so not just on account of predators, but primarily so they can outrun/outmaneuver the other non-mama adult goats in the herd!

You've heard the saying "Life's rough...get a helmet" right?  Well...think about how fast they start putting on horns.


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## oxdrover14 (Apr 13, 2010)

thank you. and do you have a checklist of what the kids need done to them in the next few months?


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## Ariel301 (Apr 13, 2010)

They'll need their shots if you choose to vaccinate your animals. Not sure when to do those as I don't vaccinate mine. 

If you do not want horns on them, they will have to be disbudded before the horns start to grow. Again, not entirely sure on the time to do that because I leave horns on mine. 

You should also train them to wear collars and walk on a leash while they are still small, so they will be easier to handle as adults. I start this around a week old with mine.


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## dhansen (Apr 14, 2010)

I disbud my bucklings around 4 days old and doelings as soon as they have horn bud...about a week.  When I do that, I give them a tetnus anti-toxin shot.


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## glenolam (Apr 14, 2010)

I love this site.  She is so clear and precise giving methods for Traditional vaccinations as well as holistic methods.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/kid-care.htm


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## oxdrover14 (Apr 14, 2010)

so if i choose not to vaccinate what does that mean do i not need to do anything?


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## Roll farms (Apr 15, 2010)

I've seen goats (not mine) die from tetanus and it's not pretty....so I choose to vaccinate.  
Mine get CD&T vaccine at (roughly) 10 days and a booster shot 3 weeks later, then a booster shot once a year after that.


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## oxdrover14 (Apr 15, 2010)

is that something i can purchase and give them myself if so where do i get it or do you reccomend the vet to do it?


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## ksalvagno (Apr 15, 2010)

You can get everything at TSC and administer the shots yourself.

If you have never given shots before, then you may want to have another goat breeder or the vet show you how to do it.


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## glenolam (Apr 15, 2010)

It is super easy to give them the shots yourself.  I am not crazy about needles, but suck it up every 12 mos for the CD&T.  I actually never gave anything a shot before I gave my goats theirs and I did fine.

ksalvagno is right - everything is at TSC and not that expensive ($8 or $9 for a 50ml bottle of CD&T).  Just make sure you buy small syringes (6ml or 6cc - cc and ml are the same thing) as the goats never need more than that.  I use a 20 guage needle, too - all of that comes in bulk so you just grab a bag of syringes and a bag of needles, the CD&T and you're all set for shots.

If you choose to worm your goats you should also buy IVOMEC, but it is very expensive (around $30-$40 for a 50 ml bottle).  The box doesn't say to use it on goats - it only gives instructions for cattle, but all you have to do is suck up 2ml of the liquid with a needle and syringe, take the needle off and give it to the goats orally.  They do not like the taste of it, so if you've ever given a cat or dog you do the same thing: close their mouth and rub their throat to get the stuff down.

Here's a link to what I buy for deworming:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...ectin-injection-cattle-dewormer-50-ml-2207551

I did buy Safeguard for goats at first, but after reading up on it I decided that spending more in IVOMEC was probably a betterthing for me to do.


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## oxdrover14 (Apr 15, 2010)

so the the stuff i get them is called bar vac cd/t 50 ml boehringer ingelheim cattle vaccine is that correct?


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## Roll farms (Apr 15, 2010)

Any CD/T vaccine will work, but Bar Vac is a very common one....dosage is 2 cc / 2 ml sub q, regardless of age / weight of the animal.
TSC also carries one specifically labeled for goats, smaller amount (I think 10 doses).
I order mine, called essential 3+T, through Jeffers Livestock Supply (but only in winter, I don't want my vaccines getting warm).


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## cmjust0 (Apr 15, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> I am not crazy about needles, but suck it up every 12 mos for the CD&T.  I actually never gave anything a shot before I gave my goats theirs and I did fine.


Over time, you get over that.  Trust me.

The new goat owner looks at 18ga needle and goes "OH MY GOD  "

Someone who's owned goats for a while looks at an 18ga needle and goes "Hmm..  I could push thick meds faster with that." 





> If you choose to worm your goats you should also buy IVOMEC, but it is very expensive (around $30-$40 for a 50 ml bottle).  The box doesn't say to use it on goats - it only gives instructions for cattle, but all you have to do is suck up 2ml of the liquid with a needle and syringe, take the needle off and give it to the goats orally.  They do not like the taste of it, so if you've ever given a cat or dog you do the same thing: close their mouth and rub their throat to get the stuff down.


The dosage for Ivermectin is based on weight, actually, and lots of folks use different dosages.  We use 3ml/100lbs or thereabout.  A full adult doe gets 5 or 6ml dosed orally.

As for rubbing their throat...if you shove it far enough back in their mouth, you don't have to rub.  They don't like it, but...well, I'm at a point where I don't really care what they like anymore.


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## glenolam (Apr 15, 2010)

Thanks, cmjust0!

I thought I did all the reading I could on that stuff - this is another reason I'm very glad to be on this site and a part of this group.

All of my goats are under 120 lbs and live in an area that is largely wetlands (with rocks to jump all around on).  I have never seen them get worms, but only had them for a year, do you think I should up the dosage?



> cmjust0 : As for rubbing their throat...if you shove it far enough back in their mouth, you don't have to rub.  They don't like it, but...well, I'm at a point where I don't really care what they like anymore.


 I'm sooooo not there yet!


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## oxdrover14 (Apr 15, 2010)

http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...pplements/goats-prefer-probioticpower-2200208                                                                      so this is what i give them to get the rumen going how much?


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## Roll farms (Apr 15, 2010)

I use the "Probios" paste probiotics on kids / sick adults...it's labeled for cows and or horses but works fine w/ goats.

I also top dress the feed w/ OptiZyme probiotics on the days I deworm the entire herd or vaccinate (anything that might stress them) or if they're on fresh green pasture.

It not only jump starts the rumen, it helps regulate the entire digestion system. 

I bet it's literally been years since we've seen a goat w/ diarrhea here.  Can't swear it's the probiotics, but it sure ain't hurting them, either.


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## oxdrover14 (Apr 16, 2010)

Probios Bovine One Probios 60GM Bovine One                                          from tractor supply will this work if so  how much do i give the babys and mama


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## Roll farms (Apr 16, 2010)

It will work fine, the one for horses is a smaller tube...same stuff.

I give adults 3-5 grams, kids 1-2 grams.....but only as / when needed.  

There's no use wasting it if they're not stressed or sick...it's a good idea to have it on hand though, b/c you never know when it'll come in handy.


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## cmjust0 (Apr 16, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> I'm sooooo not there yet!


"Yet" is the keyword there, hopefully, because it basically becomes a requirement at a certain point..  

Like this morning, for instance, as we were yanking a breech baby out by the tail...followed by yanking a 10lb buckling out despite the fact that his shoulder was hung up and his leg was turned backward.

If we break the doeling's tail...oh well, nothing else you can do.  She's gotta come out, and that's the only way it's gonna happen.

If we injure the buckling's shoulder...oh well, he was too big to get a hand in to get it pulled forward.

If we pull too hard and rupture something in the doe...oh well, the kids have got to come out or she's dead anyway.

If don't get to a point where you can continue pulling despite the fact that you feel the doeling's tail popping as you pull...or turn around and look at the doe's wild eyes and listen to her SCREAM as the buckling's shoulder comes sliding out practically bone-on-bone with her pelvis...then all there is to do is stand there and watch as _everything_ dies.

But, if you genuinely enjoy keeping goats and are committed to it...you get there.  Somehow.  And if you're not, you have a couple of really bad experiences, decide they're not worth the trouble/heartache and sell out, then try to forget you ever owned a goat in the first place.

That's just kinda how it is with goats.

All that said...don't think for one second that my heart wasn't racing this morning...it was.  And don't think for a second that me saying "oh well" means my heart isn't breaking as these things happen...it is.  You just gotta _do it_, though, regardless of how unpleasant it is.  It's all just part of the deal.


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## RockyToggRanch (Apr 16, 2010)

CM..
I know exactly what you're saying. I did what I had to do with my doe. Unfortunately I lost her and the 1st breach kid) But had I done nothing, perhaps the 2 surviving kids would have been lost as well.

The horses don't like their teeth floated...but oh well.. it's gonna be done.

The cat doesn't like the giant pill down her throat...deal with it kitty.


My children screamed when they got their vacs, but I had to deal with it. It had to be done.


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## warthog (Apr 16, 2010)

Yeah you have to do what you have to do, with all our animals.

Not had to deal with anything like this yet with my goats.

One of my dogs got at the wrong end of a porcupine last Sunday.  No visible signs but she was acting strange, after checking her, I found several porcupine quills in her mouth, roof of the mouth, tongue, and under the tongue.  Out came the tweesers and out came the quills, you do what you have to do.


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## glenolam (Apr 16, 2010)

You know what's really funny and odd?  

I'll hold my kicking and screaming and squirming 5 yr old son on a hospital bed so they can put staples in his head and not think twice  - as a matter of fact they said "Do you want us to get someone else to help?" and I said "No - it's my kid and it has to be done"

Yet I'm still finding the courage to treat my goats as needed.

Maybe it's the hooves versus hands/feet?


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## Roll farms (Apr 16, 2010)

I once cut kids out of a doe who'd died while in labor....but I cannot for the life of me dig a really nasty splinter out of my husband's hand.  
I literally cannot make myself dig in and get it out.....

I find that horribly ironic....considering that most days I like the goats better than my husband.   
(J/K...he puts up w/me, he can't be all bad.)


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## glenolam (Apr 17, 2010)

Roll farms!

I think that's why they let us get goats - so we have an outlet....


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## Ms Thistle (May 4, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I use the "Probios" paste probiotics on kids / sick adults...it's labeled for cows and or horses but works fine w/ goats.
> 
> I also top dress the feed w/ OptiZyme probiotics on the days I deworm the entire herd or vaccinate (anything that might stress them) or if they're on fresh green pasture.
> 
> ...


Hi Roll Farms, 

Would you give Probios to kids? How much? Mine had scours the day I took them home (at 2 wks old), but I gave them Resorb and they were right as rain the next day.I've heard that it can be good to give this to goats in general, however. 

Regards, 
Ms Thistle


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## haviris (May 4, 2010)

I'm late on this I guess and going back to the first question, depending on the temperment of your does you can probably put them back together now. You may have had less trouble if they'd been together all along. I don't put my does alone, everyone that is close is moved to the kidding pen and they kid all together. My does do not slam other kids, and are in fact overly tolerent of all the kids. 

The only problem I ever had, is this year I had does kidding closer together then ever before 1,2,3, and all three wanted one doe's kid. They ended up all feeding him, if he got hungry he ran to whoever was closest.


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## Roll farms (May 4, 2010)

Any time a goat (be it a kid or adult) has scours or has a treatment (deworm, antibiotics, etc.) or stress that *might* cause scours, I give them probios.
The intestines need the 'good bugs' growing in them just like the rumen does.


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## Ms Thistle (May 4, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Any time a goat (be it a kid or adult) has scours or has a treatment (deworm, antibiotics, etc.) or stress that *might* cause scours, I give them probios.
> The intestines need the 'good bugs' growing in them just like the rumen does.


Thank you Roll Farms, I'm going to look into this for my kids. 

Regards, 
Ms Thistle


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