# Fencing for rotational grazing



## DustyBoot (Apr 22, 2017)

Hi y'all,

Here's for my first big question: fences and layout. We're on just under 14 acres in central Texas, north of Austin. Right now my thinking is a couple of Dexter cows (renting a bull from a friend annually) and maybe 5-10 goats (Boer/Spanish seems to be the popular type around here, but I'd like one or two dairy does for fun). I'm including a satellite view of the property for reference. As you can see, there's both pasture and woods. The woods have a lot of underbrush and would probably be goat heaven. A mixture of cows and goats seems like it would make for efficient use of the available resources. We have prior experience with cows, and we've always wanted goats but never had the fences for them. The front (north) section of the property is currently in hay, and I'm thinking we might keep it that way. There's also talk about putting in a metal building with an RV pad, commercial kitchen, office, and aquaponics up there. Over on the northwest-ish side of the property is probably where we'll be putting bees, rabbits, chickens, and a vegetable garden. 

So, that leaves the south section of the property, behind the house. Call it about 8 acres. Would it work to fence off, say, 4 long paddocks (north-south), and rotate among them? Or would that be too small? There are a few reasons for that layout:
1) The south side of the property will flood to varying degrees, so we'd like to keep all infrastructure as far north as reasonably possible. We'd build one shed/barn structure with a fence setup that allows us to open/close access to the different pastures as desired.
2) There's access to water along that fence behind the house.
3) That allows each paddock to have a mixture of woods and grass.

We'd put a buck pen somewhere... maybe over by the pole barn.

I'd welcome any thoughts y'all might have!


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 22, 2017)

There are a couple of things that come to mind, if the southside is prone to flooding to various degrees, how long does it stay under water? Also, with the animals being surrounded by woods, you are locating them where the greater risk of predators will be and will need measures to safe-guard them. The moisture can/will cause a more difficult parasite issue to be dealt with also. Goats will not wade in water unless forced to, they prefer to be sheltered from even a drizzle. Under damp conditions they can have respiratory problems along with parasites. You may want to contact your extension office and have them recommend some improvements to the pasture, so it will meet the pressure on the desired tract of land. If the quality is good enough, it should handle the pressure, but if it is poor it may not be enough there to support that many animals. It is really difficult to say from the view in the picture.


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## farmerjan (Apr 22, 2017)

There are ALOT of Texas members on here so hopefully some of them can help you.  The terrain and climate is so different from here in Va that I wouldn't even begin to make suggestions for there.  Here, a 2 acre paddock would be sufficient to use for some rotation but most paddocks once grazed should be left for at least a 30-60 day regrowth and that is with perfect rain and temps for growing.  Somehow I doubt that you will get that in the middle of summer in Texas from what I've read.  It would still be an improvement to have them in each section for a week or so and the other sections getting a rest, rather than continuous grazing the whole thing.
Although Dexters are a smaller sized breed of cattle, they are not mini's.  They will still get up in the 600-1000 lb size.  I'm thinking that I read that it's 5-15 acres per average cow in Tx so even at that you are looking at more land for grazing than you are alloting.  If you are going to keep hay in front of them all the time then you can split it up into small sections and be able to allow them some fresh to eat. Don't forget that the goats will browse all the "brushy" stuff to the point of killing it, so then they will be without browse and will do some grazing to compensate.  And they aren't near as interested in just grazing like cows or even sheep.

Hope someone with more knowledge of the area and climate will chime in and help you.  Best of luck.


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## DustyBoot (Apr 22, 2017)

I don't think it floods often or for long. The river banks are pretty steep right where we are, so it's really just major flooding events we're concerned about. The 100-year flood plain is up near the house. The previous owner told us the highest he saw the water in 20 years was about up to the treeline. We've seen evidence of flooding in the lowest areas (debris up in trees, fences washed out), but it doesn't look terribly recent. We just figure it's better to build on higher ground, given the choice.

We're definitely considering our options to deal with predators. One step will be good fencing, and I'm also doing my research on LGDs. So far what we've seen here is coyotes, raccoons, civet cats, possums, hawks, and owls. Bobcats are a possibility, I'd imagine, but I haven't seen any evidence of them yet. 

I'm not really confident about animals per acre (or acres per animal?), which is where I'm really hoping for help. The county guidelines for ag valuation on property say we need to have a minimum of 1 cow-calf pair or 7 goats for 5 acres, I believe. I don't know how helpful that is realistically, but I'd hope they took local factors into account when setting that guideline. That said, I guess we're really only looking at about eight acres of property really used for livestock. They subtract an acre per house as homestead, so that takes out two more, then the remaining four will be the hay, chickens, rabbits and bees. So maybe not quite as much livestock after all... or maybe instead of hay we just use the front as pasture as well. Not a lot of brush for goats, but good eating for cows.


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 22, 2017)

Well, most of the figures factor the average pasture make up in the area and the stress from normal weather patterns. That can be changed if the pastures are improved and the quality of the grasses and plants are raised also. It is a minimal cost to find out the extension recommendations before making a final decision. It can be costly to improve some areas, but some the money spent is worth it. Especially if the animals are being raised for meat. Quality intake is more likely to yield better grade meat for consumption. May be ya could thin out some of the woods and increase availability in those areas for some easy "Lean-To" type shelters for shade from the heat and have every inch of grassland for grazing. I would certainly discuss it with the county agent, most are really helpful. There are many members from Texas here, so hopefully they will be along very shortly to chime in.


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## greybeard (Apr 22, 2017)

farmerjan said:


> 'm thinking that I read that it's 5-15 acres per average cow in Tx so even at that you are looking at more land for grazing than you are alloting.



Depends where one is located in Texas, annual rainfall being the big denominator. 1 pair per 2 1/2 acres here, is easily doable. In the western part of the state the acreage requirement can get up to 100ac /pair. (DustyBoot is in central Tx) 
. 
Dusty Boot. Just doing a little ruler measuring on the sat image you provided, it looks like you have maybe 1/4 of your total acreage in hay. You need to ask yourself some questions about that hayfield.
1. Does it/will it provide more hay than you can use for your intended livestock stocking rate? (cattle/goats). If you have excess, will the $$ made on selling excess hay be worth it to have fewer animals of your own?
2. Does keeping that area in hay enhance or detract from your long term goals in regards to your  desired herd?
3. Can you pencil out buying hay from someone else, considering what it costs to have your own hay cut and baled, and turning that field into pasture?
4. What's more important to you--having that hay field or having more animals?


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## Baymule (Apr 22, 2017)

We are in the Tyler Texas area on 8 acres. We have hair sheep (5 ewes, 1 ram,6 lambs), chickens, 3 horses, a garden and 4 pigs with a date of August 29 for an extended vacation in Freezer Camp. 

Our soil is known locally as sugar sand. Think beach-- without the ocean. I planted grass seed which came up, but the summer sun scorched the roots and it died. We are working to amend the soil and recently became the proud owners of about 70 loads of wood chip mulch from a power line contractor crew. Where we have spread some of it, Bahia is sprouting through it and so far, looking good. We get 40-50 inches of rain per year, but it goes right through the sand, the wood chips should help with moisture retainment. About half our property is semi wooded.

We keep hay available year around for the sheep and horses. We don't have enough graze for either of them. We still have about 3 acres to finish fencing, that will help, but we will still have to have hay out for them.

I like Greybeards suggestions and ideas about your hayfield. Can you get enough hay from that field for all your animals or would it be worth more to you as a pasture for your animals? Or maybe consider cutting it for hay in the summer and planting winter rye in it for winter pasture for your animals.

May I suggest hair sheep for clearing your brush? Ours have done a jam up job of helping to clear briars and low hanging branches. But unlike goats, they will happily graze grass after much of the browse is gone. Do you only want the goats to clear the land, then get rid of them once their job is done? Are they going to be meat for the family, sold, or pets? Have you considered hair sheep? You don't have to shear them and lamb is delicious! Coyotes will definitely take out your goats (or sheep), chickens, barn cats, and rabbits too if they can get to them, so a LGD, preferably 2 LGDs are highly recommended.

If you are going to have four pastures of 2 acres each, and rotate your livestock, then plan on a dry lot for them. There likely won't be enough recovery time between rotation times for the grass to grow back, especially in the dry season and you can dry lot them with hay to keep the animals from eating the grass down to the roots and destroying it.

I raised rabbits many years ago. I used hanging wire cages in an open sided barn that was wire wrapped to keep predators out and solid walled on the north side. Added onto the barn was a chicken coop. The chickens scratched under the rabbit cages, eating dropped feed and fly larva. Their scratching turned the rabbit poop and kept it practically smell free. It was a win-win.

You are wise in asking for help and opinions from others. You can filter out what doesn't apply to you and use what will be helpful. I wish you the very best and hope I have suggested something that you can use.


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## greybeard (Apr 23, 2017)

One thing about broadcasting annual ryegrass in Texas is you will usually want to use fertilize in Spring to jump start your perennial grass. Ryegrass will suck a lot of nutrient from the soil in late winter and very early spring, and you need to replace it if you do nothing more than add N, according to soil sample results.
I get my best grazing with Oct-Nov planted ryegrass from late Feb-March and maybe 1/2 way thru April--depending how long winter lasts here.  I don't really get much use from it in Dec, Jan or early Feb and in March turn them in on it and after it's grazed down, pull the stock off, hit it with about 30lbs/ac of 22-0-0. Both the ryegrass and perennial grasses will come on like gangbusters assuming you get a couple good rains. Then put the cattle on hi-mag mineral for about a week and let them back in on the fertilized ryegrass/Bahia mix. (the hi-mag is to prevent grass tetany)


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## DustyBoot (Apr 24, 2017)

We just moved to this property in February so we're still working out our goals and how to get there -- the ideas and opinions are much appreciated! I think the major goal is that whatever we're doing be reasonably sustainable. The specifics of what we do are negotiable depending on what will work best with the land and resources we have. We'd like to be here for the long-term and enjoy it, not wear everything out and run it down. Obviously we don't expect to have a huge agricultural operation on 14 acres. We want to be producing enough to keep some for personal use and sell the rest. We'd like the kids to be involved and be able to participate in the economics of work and profit and so on. Personally, I prefer animals to plants although I do want to have a vegetable garden for our personal use.

I've been doing a little reading on sheep, but I'll get serious about researching that as an option. The main reason we were thinking of goats is that a decent amount of the property needs underbrush cleared and it seemed more efficient to let goats do that (converting it into meat) than to get out there with a skid steer. We have some beautiful mature trees out there (pecans and burr oak, some cottonwoods), but it's all grown over with poison oak, smaller trees, vines, and other stuff. It had crossed my mind that if they completely cleared out the brush we might end up needing to replace them with something more suited to grass. But if hair sheep would work for both situations, that would probably be a better choice.

If we were doing sheep, that could also make that front field into a viable pasture and save us the trouble of growing, cutting, and baling hay.

Back to the drawing board, it seems!

Edited to add: I've called the county ag extension and left a message to talk to the livestock guy. But I've done that a few times and he's never called me back, so we'll see.


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## Latestarter (Apr 24, 2017)

You'll find mixed reviews on county extension agents... some are worth their weight in gold and some aren't worth the title they claim... You'll also find that your long term plans and goals will modify over time and on a family homestead farm, that's quite alright! You have to adjust over time to what works best for you. Just start someplace and start small... then build over time. Wishing you success!


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## DustyBoot (Apr 25, 2017)

Been thinking, and here's my latest idea. 7 or 8 goats (1 buck kept penned with a wether to keep him company, and 5 or 6 does). One jersey cow, and we breed her to a friend's good Dexter bull for a beefier calf and also pick up a bummer calf for her to raise, and hopefully have a bit of milk left for us (milking once a day). There's a dairy not far from here and I've talked to him before about the possibility of buying a cow from him. Figure we could get one a little older and more docile, but well bred. 

We have ~12 acres to use for ag. A little of that is "improved" rather than native pasture, according to records. The county says 1 cow-calf pair or 7 goats per 5 acres of native pasture (or 4 of improved pasture). I figure 7 goats, one cow-calf pair, and one extra calf seems about right. Still hoping I can get in touch with the ag extension guy, but not holding my breath.

I was walking around yesterday thinking through things, and I really think there's a lot for goats down in the woods. It may be that eventually they clear it out to the point where it's no longer goat territory, and if that happens we can reconsider our stock. Maybe hair sheep at that point. But I think there's enough there to keep goats going for a while. It's pretty dense stuff. Oak and Pecan with undergrowth galore... poison oak as tall as I am. 

Does that sound feasible at all, at least for getting started? Maybe I should ask over in the cattle forum about the likelihood of the nurse cow thing working out.


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## Latestarter (Apr 25, 2017)

There's quite a bit of info already in the cattle section. By all means spend some time over there and ask any questions you might have. For the Ag Exemption stuff, you'll need to contact your appraisal district. They're the ones who set tax value and compute the Ag stuff. The extension agent is really for on-site property and animal improvements/recommendations/etc. Really, you can do whatever you think works best for you and meets any requirements you might have to abide by, and then adjust over time.


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