# bobcats killed my sheep? graphic description



## dwbonfire (Sep 13, 2011)

has anyone had any experience with bobcats taking down thier adult sheep? i am in NC and recently lost my two rams. i was never sure of thier breed but they were biiig boys, one in particular. we have never had any animals killed here, and we have horses, and all sorts of poultry, cats, dogs etc. and we did have our sheep for some time. they stayed out at night, because they would stay in the field with the horses and i am usually a light sleeper so i always heard if there was anything going on out there. friday morning i woke up to my two boys mauled in the field. i never heard a peep. even my dogs didnt bark. they werent dead but very very badly injured and needed to be put down immediately. i am heartbroken to say the least, they were more like dogs than sheep. aside from that, i am so stumped as to what would have done this and not made much noise. i have talked to a few people locally and they all agree it was not coyotes, because of thier size and the fact that coyotes would have surely killed and consumed them. others thought maybe a stray dog, but i would hate to think my dogs are so useless that they wouldnt even bark if a dog was on the property. two different people first off thought of a bobcat after hearing of the wounds on the sheep. im going to get graphic here: ones throat was totally slashed open in a clean slice, but terribly deep that he couldnt be saved. the other had punctures on his throat but his back end was totally stripped of his wool and had been "worked on" ill say. there was also a clear clean slice down his haunches that just doesnt look to me like a dog would or could have made. im really horrified by this all, and i wish i knew what happened. i had thought my dog (german shepherd) could have been involved because she was loose all night. shes 5 years old, and been around the sheep since they were lambs and only chased in a playful way, never showed aggression. she also is always around ducks, guineas, chickens, cats, kittens, horses, children and never showed any signs of aggression. i was horrified to think she could have done it, but i am aware that an animal is an animal, and she may have started to play and got carried away with them. she had no blood on her at all, nothing under her nails, and the wounds on the sheep just dont seem like she could have done it. shes a bit of a sissy, so i wouldnt expect her to really attack a preditor either. my question is, has anyone heard of trouble with bobcats in NC at all? does anyone know of thier hunting behaviors and whatnot?
thanks for any advice or info.


----------



## elevan (Sep 13, 2011)

I am so sorry to hear this  

I've no experience in bobcats but it certainly does sound like it could have been one.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Sep 13, 2011)

I don't really have any advice to offer, because I'm not familiar with how bobcats would attack.  I just wanted to say how sorry I am that this happened.


----------



## currycomb (Sep 13, 2011)

sorry. it is a tragic loss. ours started with a big wether goat, had stayed with the horses, ponies and donkey in the pasture. never knew he was a goat. found him dead, not far from the house, broad daylight. he had been attacked from the rear. damaged so he bled out. no wild animal near, but our catahoula was laying next to him just licking him. still don't know if she ran wild animal off or did the deed herself.
next one was a doe had given birth, had all the signs, just no baby. we walked the goat pen and found some blood and a bit of umbilical cord. no other sign. gone, poof.
next one was a 40 lb doeling, again just vanished. poof(this was a nice spotted kinder/fainter)
next one was a black doeling we had bought a few months before. again, poof
next one was a tan doeling we had purchased with the black one. this one we found the stomach and rumen inside the goat pen, the rest of the carcass, poof. no blood, no tracks. varmit had to jump a 4ft wire fence into the pen, and then jump out with the goat in its mouth. goats were about 40 lbs.
so you tell me. the last 3 kills were just as the moon was turning full, 3 months in a row.
goats are now in lock down. no pasture until moon looses it's fullness. new goat barn by chicken house, radio blaring, more fences for varmit to jump, possibly time for pyreneese to get said varmit
last night, husband runs for gun, momma coyote right in back yard, guard dogs in feed room eating, so she got away. 
really nervous about what winter will bring when varmits get really hungry.
oh yeah, once they find an easy meal, they will be back!!!


----------



## dwbonfire (Sep 13, 2011)

thanks everyone...

curry, sorry to hear your losses too. isnt it strange, the moon was full the night this happened also. ive never been one to believe anything like that, but apparently it must have some truth.
i have no sheep left, those were my only two boys left.  i miss them terribly.
i sure hope nothing would have a go at my horses. im thinking not, but as you say once winter comes do you think thats a possibility?

the hunters that hunt the land all around me say we have a ton of coyotes, and wild boar. i cannot even imagine a boar would do anything like this right? and as i said about the coyotes most likely not them. they never mentioned any bobcats seen on the game cameras they have. maybe they are coming into the area..


----------



## elevan (Sep 13, 2011)

I had a boar pot belly (fully grown) attack both of our fully grown horses...slashed them up pretty good...it was ugly.  So I suppose you couldn't rule out a wild boar...they can push under the fences quite easily and are pretty aggressive.

About the full moon...it lights up the night better than any other moon phase.  So there's really no wonder that these things are more frequent during full moons - it's just easier to see what the prey are doing.


----------



## redtailgal (Sep 13, 2011)

z


----------



## Bossroo (Sep 14, 2011)

I seriously doubt that it was a Bobcat.  They are just not big enough and their teeth are just too small to kill a full grown animal such as a sheep or goat. The largest that they can kill would be a lamb about a month old.   Think COUGAR !!!   ( NO MATTER what the local Fish and Game say about NO COUGARS existing in the area)  Or  COYOTE !!!  A wild pig also can do the kill like that. Another very real possibility is a pack of dogs... about 30 years a go a neighbor had 3 lab x and German Shepherd x mongrels kill 152 sheep in a couple of hours with NO sounds.( owner woke up as the rest of the sheep ran past his bedroom window next to the pasture) We hunted them down and shot them on sight in the pastures. He collected triple damages from the owners of those dogs as luck would have it , 2 of the dogs had collars with licences on them. Sorry for your loss and  Good Luck finding the culprit!!!


----------



## elevan (Sep 14, 2011)

Whatever it was didn't kill the sheep...


> they werent dead but very very badly injured and needed to be put down immediately.


----------



## dwbonfire (Sep 14, 2011)

well im almost let down that it wasnt a bobcat. only because now im possibly pointing the finger back at my own dog :/ i just find it hard to believe a pack of dogs came in here and did it ONLY because my dog was loose, plus i have a dog tied out all night, plus two in my garage. i would think with the commotion someone would have barked. this is upsetting because my relationship with my dog is tainted now, because ill really never know if it was her but ill always be suspicious, and thats unfortunate.
i did look for tracks, but didnt find much just a few from one of the sheep that lead to a pile of wool which was what was off his back end. thats all, plus my dogs tracks are all over that field and everywhere around here, and i have 3 dogs loose during the daytime here.
this is really upsetting, i just cant piece it all together. that very moment i woke up and ran outside was because i heard the dog that is tied barking at the hunter coming down the road. when i didnt hear my other dog (the one that was loose) bark thats what tipped me off she was gone. i went out and called her and she came from across the field past where i found one of the sheep. she came from in the woods. the thing i dont get is how i heard that dog bark at the car coming, but not if she barked if something was out in the field? which makes me think she did NOT bark. which then makes me think nothing came into the yard which leaves my dog in the spotlight. everyone just finds it hard to believe she could take down the two of them and leave the wounds they had. my only answer is that she had all night to do it, who knows if she just started to play and chase and got carried away. again- i looked on her and under her nails and no blood or signs of anything. would i really find that tho?
gosh i just wish she was locked up so i at least knew it was not her. 

p.s im also near charlotte redtailgal, about an hour east.


----------



## jodief100 (Sep 14, 2011)

Just throwing this out. Is it possible this was a two legged predator?  Those are the meanest,  most dangerous and unpredictable predator there is.  The fact they weren't eaten makes me think it is possible.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Sep 14, 2011)

I kind of doubt it was your lone dog that killed 2 big rams. I don't know, it's a possibility I guess...but still doesn't mean it was her.  My dogs sometimes miss when other critters come into the yard.  One night I woke up because I heard my chickens making a huge racket (foxes were after them) and not a peep out of my 3 dogs who were all snoring away!!!


----------



## Hillsvale (Sep 14, 2011)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> Just throwing this out. Is it possible this was a two legged predator?  Those are the meanest,  most dangerous and unpredictable predator there is.  The fact they weren't eaten makes me think it is possible.


I kind of wondered this myself... especially the slashed throat. I am sorry for your loss.


----------



## dwbonfire (Sep 14, 2011)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> Just throwing this out. Is it possible this was a two legged predator?  Those are the meanest,  most dangerous and unpredictable predator there is.  The fact they weren't eaten makes me think it is possible.


i really wouldnt think someone would do this, we are down the end of a dead end, and never had any issues with people or predators. also the wounds arent likely to be a person, otherwise i would have considered that too. boy i at least hope it wasnt... i do think if someone wanted something of mine dead they would kill my loud mouth guineas or dogs.
ETA: i agree about the slashed throat, but the other one like i described had its wool pulled off its back end and kind of chomped all on, and the punctures in the throat too..


----------



## elevan (Sep 14, 2011)

I think that your dog would have had blood somewhere on it.  I had a dog kill a goat kid and drag it into the pond...the dog still had blood around the mouth even though it had been in the water.

Two legged predator...I know it's a scary thought - but what is the drug issue in your area...the drug crazed idiots will do things that you wouldn't normal think of a human for.  I remember reading a story about a guy high on "bath salts" that stole and mutilated a pygmy goat in PA.


----------



## KaleighMaeA (Sep 14, 2011)

What breed of dog do you own that was out when this all happened?


----------



## dwbonfire (Sep 14, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> I think that your dog would have had blood somewhere on it.  I had a dog kill a goat kid and drag it into the pond...the dog still had blood around the mouth even though it had been in the water.
> 
> Two legged predator...I know it's a scary thought - but what is the drug issue in your area...the drug crazed idiots will do things that you wouldn't normal think of a human for.  I remember reading a story about a guy high on "bath salts" that stole and mutilated a pygmy goat in PA.


Good Lord, i really hope it was not a person who did this, and i still really dont think so but the thought makes me shiver. the punctures on the neck looked like teeth to me. as for the drug problem, thats closer to town not really out here. howcome they would go after the sheep and not the birds outback or horses or dogs? i do believe it was an animal.

my dog is a german shephard. i described her nature in my first post and how shes been exposed to numerous animals and children and always been fine. she was the one that was loose.
the other dog is some kind of mutt, good at alerting me when someone is driving down the road, or barks when my other dogs and cats run around.


----------



## redtailgal (Sep 14, 2011)

x


----------



## terrilhb (Sep 15, 2011)

I am so sorry for this tragedy.


----------



## Beekissed (Sep 17, 2011)

I agree with the post about cougars in the area.  Bobcats are pretty small and rarely attack anything that large but cougars could inflict the deep slashes you describe as they attempt to catch a running sheep, even the wool missing off the back of one would indicate that kind of attack as well.  Large predators usually start at the hind parts when eating deer, elk, etc. and a big cat could have started removing wool and started to bite open the skin.  

Maybe your shepherd didn't bark due to being afraid.....the only time we had a confirmed cougar at our place, our old black and tan hound hid under the house and whimpered until we scared it off with a shotgun.  Or, your shepherd startled the cougar before it could finish the job, who knows?  

Might leave your carcass out, tie the dogs and sprinkle some flour around the carcass.....could tell you just what thing is prowling around your place.


----------



## kstaven (Sep 17, 2011)

I really doubt it was a dog. Big cat, yes.


----------



## carolinagirl (Sep 17, 2011)

If none of the animal was consumed, it was more than likely domestic dogs.  This link is very helpful in determining which predator might have done it.  

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/uw135

*Coyotes
*

      Bite marks and subcutaneous bruising under neck and throat, bloody foam in the trachea

      Attacks to sides and hindquarters 

      Canine puncture spacing: upper canines = 1 1/8 - 1 3/8 in., lower canines = 1-1 in.

      Often bite and consume nose, particularly on very young animals 

      Feeding: usually begin on flank just behind the ribs, consuming organs and entrails

*Domestic Dogs*

      Indiscriminate mutilation of prey, bites on multiple areas of body

      Note: Some dogs become efficient predators and attack prey in a fashion similar to coyotes, and some coyotes attack prey in an indiscriminate fashion similar to dog attacks

      Often do not feed on prey, or consume very little 

*Bobcats*

      Usually kill small lambs by biting on the head or back of neck

      Often leaps on the back and bites the neck and throat of larger prey

      Hemorrhaging from claw punctures often can be found below the skin on the neck, back, sides, and shoulders

      Paired upper and lower canines usually are -1 inch apart

      Often begin feeding on the viscera after entering behind the ribs

∙ Often drag and cover prey
*
Black Bear*


      Often kill with crushing bites to spine, skull, and dorsal side of neck

      Claw marks often found on the neck, back, and shoulders of larger prey

      Often kill more than 1 anima

      Usually consume the udder and flank, usually remove intestines intact and do not eat

      Carcass often almost entirely eaten and carcass often skinned out leaving the hide intact

      Prey often dragged to cover, prey sometimes covered with grass and dirt
*
Panther/Cougar*

∙ Usually bite to the back of the neck and skull causing massive hemorrhaging

      Large canine tooth punctures, upper canines 1-2 in. apart, lower canines 1-1 in. apart

      Large claw marks on head, neck, shoulder, flank

      Usually eviscerates the carcass, removes entrails and move aside

      Consume lungs, heart, liver, and larger leg muscles

      May drag and cover prey


----------



## greybeard (Oct 26, 2011)

Unless something frightened it off before it could finish it's kill and consume any, I doubt it was a cougar. They are common here in the woods (Sam Houstn Nat'l Forest borders 3 sides of my property and 155 ft from my front door) 

The attack method and parts cunsumed description above is pretty accurate from what I've seen first hand with calves attacked by a cougar. They almost always approach from the rear, dig their claws into the flanks and quickly work their way up the body moving forward to the victim's head and  throat. They make pretty fast work of it, and not a terrible amount of noise from the cat. They do not always finish the kill before beginning to consume the soft parts tho.  I've never heard 1st hand of a cougar killing without intent to feed.  They, unlike canines, are usually hunters--not wanton murderers. Cat tracks btw, will only display claws when on attack--claws are retracted most of the rest of the time. 

Feral hogs or a boar does all or most of their damage to the underbelly, slashing upwards with their tusks, and it's usually a running fight covering quite a bit of area, and yes--it will be a very loud encounter--lots of loud squeeling and grunting.  In my area, I've never heard of a hog killing a large mammal for food other than young piglets. They will eat their young. 

My guess is feral or domestic dogs. 

I am not familar with sheep, but when dogs get after cattle, even domestic dogs, the initial bite marks will be on the extremities. lower legs, tail, nose, and especially on the ears, as they attempt to catch and hold their victim. Most canines don't attack livestock(coyotes excepted) for food. They do it both for the "fun" of it and as part of a long ingrained primal instinct that hasn't quite (and never will be) bred or 100% "trained" out. 

Do you have Timber Wolves in your area?

If it should occur again, shear the victim as close to the skin as possible and let a vet examine it.


----------



## 77Herford (Oct 27, 2011)

Sounds very much like a Cougar attack.  The hind quarters of wool being off and partially munched on.  The puncture wounds on the neck and the neck being slashe could easily been a lucky grab of a claw while attempting to tackle the prey but I am surprised by the fact that the dogs didn't do anything and no sounds were heard.  Cougars like to ambush their prey and hit hard and fast.  Its odd that it would take out two targets unless the second ram tried to defend its friend.

It could also be a Black bear.


----------



## Queen Mum (Oct 27, 2011)

Black bear would snap the neck and carry/drag it off.  So I doubt it would be a bear.  It sounds like a big cat.  Big cats go for the hind quarters to disable then get up to bite the neck.


----------



## muddinyori (May 21, 2012)

I live in Newtown CT, which is all country.  THEY SAY (DEP) we don't have bob cat or lynx or mountain lion in our area.  WE BEG TO DIFFER.  Most of us have seen the bob cat and the lynx.  We have seen paw prints as big as a mans hand in the mud and snow in my yard now for 7 yrs.  We have seen the bob cat and lynx and they are as big a my dog.  My dog is a German Shepard rot mix.  He weighs 103 lbs.  We have a farm next to us that had 26 adult sheep, past couple months they had 12 babies, now they only have 5 of those babies. No, the owners of the farm, do not slaughter them for food.  They had a goat, we were told one of the big cats got the goat couple years back.  Someone 2 miles from me lost their golden retriever to they believe a mountain lion.  We find body parts in our yard all the time.  Because the farm is next door you can see 4 large pastures, I don't know how many acres, whole farm is 150 acres.  The deer always have their babies in these pastures, because they are fenced in, I guess the moms hope they are protected.  There were 4 babies this past summer (2011)  two babies that were about 4 months old, they were by my house/porch one day, the next day we found some of there body parts in our wood pile.  We have the mother filmed on video walking along our property, I say this because she was attacked by a large cat and you could see her previous scars from the attack.  She was all healed, but the scars were crystal clear. It grabbed her by the throat area, you could clearly see where the paws on both sides of her grab her and sliced through her. She was in my yard 20 feet or so away, her back end was a high a my shoulder which is 4-1/2 feet, she was not small by no means.  She was very careful when coming through the area.  We heard kills going on out in the forest for years, thought it was the coyotes, we got a baby monitor and researched the internet for bobcat and lynx killing different animals. I have put a lot of time into the researching part of it.  We know its a big cat, you can hear it breath over the baby monitor, they're killing rabbits.  Any one that had lost a cat, sorry to say is never found.  We have heard cats and small dogs and other things getting killed in the forest. It's terrible to hear.  The local dog warden gets pictures of the bob cats and lynx sent to them all the time.  Now 3 years ago we saw a very very large black cat that looked like a mountain lion but black.  It was snowing and jumped a horse gate, we went out to check out the paw prints and how far the jump was, it jumped about 15 feet in one leap alone.  I know someone that lived on a farm up the street, said his dad killed a huge black cat years ago because it was killing their livestock.  We were told and researched off the internet about mountain lion being introduced early in 2003 ?? to help kill off some of the deer population because of deer caring ticks.  Cats like rabbits multiply and with all the coyotes around also I sure it will contribute to live stock being killed not only in CT but all over, even NC.  I have read up about these big cats, cats will play or kill something just for the heck of it.  Coyotes will kill it because they're hungry.  My house cat will kill a mouse, not once did he ever eat one.  Its in there nature.  You never know, it could have been one of these big cats with CUBS and she was training them on how to kill, but didn't finish the job. Or it still could have been a big cat, but not a mature cat they knew how to kill your sheep.  One of my neighbors SMALL donkeys was attacked about 3 years back, the nose and mouth area was ripped apart, she didn't know what could have done this.  I told her about the bob cats in the area and how a cat will try to suffocate their prey and if it wasn't mature enough to follow through.  Readers digest had an article about 8 years, girl scout group camping, sitting around a fire when a baby mountain lion came up be hide a little girl, starting licking her on the neck.  Flip side of this story, they attack the neck, because it was so young it knew to go for the neck but licked the girl instead.  Counselor that gave the story said if it was older and knew it would have grab the girl in a second and took her into the forest.  I am sorry to hear about your lost with your sheep.  The good thing about the internet is how we can reach out to others in need to help one another, strangers or not.  I will say this, before we got the monitors you never heard a peep and neither did my dog, since we got the monitors, now you hear everything.  If you want to hear whats going on out in your yard, barn etc.  Buy a baby monitor, walmart $15.00 If you are more aware of what could be around you and in your area.   IT COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE  or your pets life ONE DAY.  GOOD LUCK !!!!


----------



## KinderKorner (May 21, 2012)

I think no on bobcat.

My guess is Cougar.

Despite if the local parks say there isn't any around in your area.

They kill or hurt silently, and make nice clean cuts.

We never thought we had cougars here.

Until neighbors goats started disappearing without a peep, and friends found several 200+ pound mauled goats in the woods that had somehow been carried over their 4' electric fence. 


I'm so sorry it happened. I would be putting up some cameras, and do some tracking or trapping. If they killed once, they likely may come back again.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 21, 2012)

*My first thought is Cougar.*


----------



## bonbean01 (May 21, 2012)

Oh...I'm so sorry for the losses   I'm in Northeast MS and folks around here said there used to be many brown panthers, but they are all gone now...not so...hubby and I have seen brown panther youngsters several times near our road...so...obviously there is a mama and papa panther somewhere...could you have them in NC?  A bad pack of dogs can also do so much horror...had a large and growing pack near us for awhile and we have our sheep and chickens on lock down at night now...neighbour had one come after a grandchild and he picked them off one by one, so that problem is gone now.

So sad...so sorry


----------



## ILuvSheep (May 22, 2012)

Cougar sounds like it, I would say wolf if you had 'em, but then again I don't know what a wolf attack looks like and they would drag it off


So sorry,


----------



## redtailgal (May 22, 2012)

um, do ya'll realize that this thread is from last year?


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 22, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> um, do ya'll realize that this thread is from last year?


*Haha I didn't,  I just saw it pop up on the first page and opened it. *


----------



## redtailgal (May 22, 2012)




----------



## bonbean01 (May 22, 2012)




----------

