# Tell me your vaccine schedule



## Ferguson K (Nov 22, 2016)

I am curious about the different schedules based on different areas of the country.

For example: Someone up north would be more apt to giving a pneumonia shot than someone in the south, where as someone in the south would be more apt to worry about worm load.

Tell me, what do you vaccinate for and why? Is it relative to what's common in your area? When do you vaccinate? I know typically most on this forum, from what I have noticed, give the CDT 30 days prior to kidding and then a booster following to both does and kids. Who treats for pneumonia? Who treats for coccidiosis? Who treats for tetanus separate?

Thank you!


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## Hens and Roos (Nov 22, 2016)

We do CD/T shots, we started coccidiosis preventive this year with Toltrazuril and will be giving pneumonia shots as well.  We run fecals and treat individual goats as needed- working on this right now.


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## Baymule (Nov 22, 2016)

Good thread!


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## NH homesteader (Nov 22, 2016)

My plan,  as this will be my first kidding  season, is to do CD/T 30 days before and booster.  The person  I got my most recent kids from used Toltrazuril for coccidia so I am now looking into that.  I would prefer to avoid medicated feed.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 22, 2016)

We do the normal CDT schedule. Dam gets a booster 30 days before kidding, kids get 2 boosters after they are born. First at 3-4 weeks and 3-4 weeks after that. Does do not need another dose after kidding. I try to keep it at 1 CDT/year if possible. 
Bucks get it once a year as well. I might re-vaccinate an UTD goat if her/she has been on a drylot and then suddenly turned onto lush pasture/forage and vice versa. 

We haven't had a problem with pneumonia, but will probably start giving it because we are/will be showing. 

For cocci we use Baycox and Di-methox for a preventative and treatment. We will be considering the use of a medicated feed because its difficult to weigh 25+ kids every few weeks and individually dose. 

I don't give any anti-toxin unless its needed and the animal is presenting signs of the illness OR if my vet (& I) think it should be used. I try to avoid it unless its necessary.


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## Ferguson K (Nov 22, 2016)

I suppose I should have put what we do as well!

Does get CD&T 30(ish) days before kidding. Does/juniors that aren't bred are vaccinated in March. Kids get 2 boosters, same schedule as GW.

This will be the first year we vaccinate for Pasteurella/pneumonia. Normally we would treat with Nuflor if necessary, but, going to try something different this year. It's supposed to be a wet and cold spring and I would like to prevent it.

Last year we fed medicated feed, but this year we plan on trying a different preventative method. I think I ordered Baycox with my last order, I'd have to go look.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 22, 2016)

I had never heard of anyone up here giving pneumonia vaccinations...  Now I have to research why not.  Or maybe people are and I just don't know about it! 

25 kids is a lot of kids.  I will be breeding 2 does this year (unless my littler mini grows a lot before breeding  season ends!) ...  So the workload is in no way comparable! I would feed medicated too!


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 22, 2016)

Ferguson K said:


> I suppose I should have put what we do as well!
> 
> Does get CD&T 30(ish) days before kidding. Does/juniors that aren't bred are vaccinated in March. Kids get 2 boosters, same schedule as GW.
> 
> ...


Well duh (I said to myself)
Forgot to add, does that aren't bred still get a CDT yearly. Totally forgot to add that 

I've used Nuflor and oxytetracycline to treat respiratory issues. I try to save the Nuflor for life or death situations. 

Had a goat here that nearly died of pneumonia… thought he wasn't going to make it honestly. He was acting slightly off and within 1.5 hours he was down on the ground, not moving, and hardly breathing. Within 45 minutes of having the Nuflor injection (sub q too!) he could lift his head and breathe better. 

Went through heck with that goat. He had come in from another farm and kinda had the odds stacked against him. It was a chain of events and was just one thing after another. I'm amazed that he survived.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 22, 2016)

@NH homesteader if we bred all our does this year we could have over 50 kids 

I think we have 10-12 does bred, the average is 2 kids per doe, but some of those have a potential to have 3-5 kids in a litter.


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## Ferguson K (Nov 22, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> Forgot to add, does that aren't bred still get a CDT yearly. Totally forgot to add that



We're allowed to be forgetful!


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## TAH (Nov 22, 2016)

I have never vaccined for anything except tetnus. All our goats have been vacined before we get them.


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## babsbag (Nov 22, 2016)

Typically I give CDT 30 days before kidding and I also do pneumonia and MultiMin 90 at that time. This year I may do the CDT earlier as I need to do the pneumonia and MultiMin NOW and when you are doing 40+ goats you like to do it all at once. My kidding season got pushed back this year so I am off schedule.

I vaccinate kids with CDT at 3 and 7-8 weeks. Use Baycox as a cocci prevention at 3 and 6 weeks. 

Before MultiMin I did copper bolus 2 x a year and BoSe for the pregnant dams and usually for the newborn kids. 

Worms have been a non-issue...thank you Lord for the small blessings. But I used to routinely dose with ivermectin once a year but have not done that the last 2 years.


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 22, 2016)

For now all mine get is CDT yearly for adults, 30 days prior to kidding, kids get CDT at 4,8,12, weeks, 6 months, annually after that. DiMethox cocci preventative at 3,6,12 weeks. 

If someone has a wound requiring stitches, they do get a tetanus antitoxin followed up with a CDT. 

Bo-Se for bucks annually (I live in a very selenium deficient area). Did not get around to doing does before breeding and it isn't safe when does are bred, so they will get selenium/vitamin e gel monthly during last 3 months of pregnancy. Copper bolus 2x a year.

Really want to use Pneumonia vaccine soon.


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 22, 2016)

TAH said:


> I have never vaccined for anything except tetnus. All our goats have been vacined before we get them.


Just tetanus toxoid?


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## babsbag (Nov 22, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Did not get around to doing does before breeding and it isn't safe when does are bred



I have always given BoSe to pregnant does.


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 22, 2016)

babsbag said:


> I have always given BoSe to pregnant does.


Really? Even early in gestation? I read somewhere it can cause them to abort. I have heard of people giving it 30 days prior to kidding.


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 22, 2016)

https://www.drugs.com/vet/bo-se.html

*Contraindications*
DO NOT USE IN PREGNANT EWES. Deaths and abortions have been reported in pregnant ewes injected with this product.


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## babsbag (Nov 22, 2016)

I don't know about doing it early. I usually give it 30 days before kidding.


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 22, 2016)

@Ferguson K 

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/what-is-your-goat-vaccine-schedule.34432/


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## babsbag (Nov 22, 2016)

My goats aren't ewes 

BoSe is off label for goats so you have to get it from a vet so it is whatever your vet is comfortable with. Mine says give it before kidding.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 22, 2016)

We do give BoSe annually to our bucks and we give it to our does just prior to breeding.



Green Acres Farm said:


> Copper bolus 2x a year.



Be very careful with this. A VERY experienced breeder that is very respected lives in an area that is extremely copper deficient. Had been giving Copper 2x year because the goats appeared deficient. Over time this built up and TOXICITY looks just like DEFICIENCY. She lots 12 of her top does all at once - necropsy showed Copper toxicity.

Horribly sad.

Last month in the UC Davis newsletter they had I think 111 goats die of copper toxicity. There were other factors involved but it was quite shocking.
I was trying to post the link but it isn't working for me. 

Got it!  On the large picture scroll through using the arrows til you get to the newsletter picture and click on that. This one was from Oct. 

Great newsletter BTW! 
http://www.cahfs.ucdavis.edu/


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## babsbag (Nov 23, 2016)

@Southern by choice 
Not in that issue ???


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## TAH (Nov 23, 2016)

If I remember correctly this was what we had used on naomi


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2016)

babsbag said:


> @Southern by choice
> Not in that issue ???



oops
go to news disease and info bar
go to connection archive
2016
october


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 23, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> We do give BoSe annually to our bucks and we give it to our does just prior to breeding.



How prior?


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 23, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Be very careful with this. A VERY experienced breeder that is very respected lives in an area that is extremely copper deficient. Had been giving Copper 2x year because the goats appeared deficient. Over time this built up and TOXICITY looks just like DEFICIENCY. She lots 12 of her top does all at once - necropsy showed Copper toxicity.



Thank you for letting me know. That is the schedule another breeder more experienced than myself follows, so I had followed it. 

I know someone who gives it every 2 months. Not joking.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 23, 2016)

2 months? Eek.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> How prior?



Originally 30 days prior but no longer follow that.
The different vets I work with all have different thoughts on Selenium. 
All 4 vets have a different opinion.  

Sooooooooooo... I did what I do.... ... research.

My one vet stood in my driveway and we "discussed" the Bose issue for over an hour....  
We had a big difference of opinion. 

Then this vet said hey- I know you research everything and you are probably going to find more on the subject than I, so whatever you find send it to me... then we walked over and gave all the BoSe. 

So I did research and found some great articles, studies.
You see most studies on goats are not from the US because we don't study goats here. Just parasites. Not goats. 

Anyway long story short we give the Bose and as soon as they cycle they are bred. 
Selenium deficiency in a goat  will greatly affect the grandkid. The 3rd generation if not fixed and corrected will have issues. Also if levels are not good then the first kidding may go ok but subsequent kiddings is where you will see issues.

Where many give nothing but will inject kids as needed that practice should be looked at closely. If kids are needing Selenium then the dam did not have enough in her own system to pass to her kid. The growing kid will take precedent over everything. When a goat develops no udder but is growing huge with kids there you can see the growing kids are taking everything from the doe. 
I am not referring to does that don't develop udder til just at or immediately following kidding. I am referring to those that just don't develop an udder and cannot produce and support their kid/s.

The best study I found in regard to Selenium( trying to recall from memory which isn't fun) was on 1200 dairy goats. The herd had  history of issues. The Selenium was given and it took I think about 30 days or something like that to work into the system for good levels. I forgot the peak time... but I remember the levels were maintained through days 135-145. This means kids had adequate Selenium. The 1200 goats had significantly less loss, kidding issues, weak kids etc.  Like I said I am going off memory here. 

Every 2-3 years a sampling of the herd (serum) should have a mineral analysis so that all levels can be checked.
Toxicity and deficiency look alike in most cases.

Some examples-
Selenium *toxicity* can cause hoof/foot issues (deformed)
Zinc *deficiency* can cause hoof and foot issues (deformed)

dermatology issues-
Copper deficiency
Iodine deficiency
Selenium *toxicity*
Vitamin A deficiency
Vitamin E / Selenium deficiency
Zinc deficiency

Excess Calcium and excess Protein can cause bowed legs and joint issues. Whereas sometimes bowed legs can mean they need copper and selenium

That is why doing a sampling can in the long run save you lots of money and save the goat/s too.


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## babsbag (Nov 23, 2016)

I sample the ones that look the best and the ones that look the worst, and the funny thing...I usually don't see a difference in results. They are always borderline low in copper and Se.  This will the first year that I will test them after doing multimin. We will see if that has made a difference, they certainly look better. I have not done anything to my bucks this year other than their minerals.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2016)

IMO it is important to visually observe but most of what causes issues that is a greater concern isn't the visual. Kidding issues, death, weak kids, failure to thrive, thickened placentas, sacs passed that have discs or mummified kids etc. 
Since we have so many breeds and body types I can't just go by what I see. 

We had terribly rough coats a few years back and tint of orange ... that all pointed to some sort of deficiency. We did the analysis and it was not deficiency but our iron was so high that it was causing problems. We had to work with our water and minerals. Iron can bind certain minerals and cause a storage issue. Ultimately the very hard water and high iron is just going to cause rougher coats the orange color will come and go.


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 23, 2016)

@Southern by choice, do you send in one pooled sample or several different samples for an analysis? How much does it cost per sample?


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 23, 2016)

@Southern by choice, do you use PADLS?

Is it the serum mineral screen with selenium? What all does that cover? 

http://www.padls.org/services.html


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 23, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> https://www.drugs.com/vet/bo-se.html
> 
> *Contraindications*
> DO NOT USE IN PREGNANT EWES. Deaths and abortions have been reported in pregnant ewes injected with this product.





babsbag said:


> I don't know about doing it early. I usually give it 30 days before kidding.





babsbag said:


> My goats aren't ewes
> 
> BoSe is off label for goats so you have to get it from a vet so it is whatever your vet is comfortable with. Mine says give it before kidding.



I do think sheep are a bit more sensitive. 
I was just reading my BoSe slip that is included in the box. Doesn't say anything about giving it to bred cows…
It is hard to compare sheep/goats in a matter like this one. Goats and I believe cows need copper, where sheep need very little and can overdose and die if they eat minerals designed for goats. 

So who knows if it would actually cause a goat to abort? 

I would try to avoid giving it during pregnancy is possible, but again huge differences on how sheep and goats handle vitamins/minerals. 

BoSe also says to give it to lambs 2 weeks and older, but people routinely give it to newborn lambs


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> @Southern by choice, do you send in one pooled sample or several different samples for an analysis? How much does it cost per sample?





Green Acres Farm said:


> @Southern by choice, do you use PADLS?
> 
> Is it the serum mineral screen with selenium? What all does that cover?
> 
> http://www.padls.org/services.html



Yes, that is who we use. I would have to look at my paperwork. They have different levels. We do a simple mineral analysis. 
No you don't pool the blood, they are sent individually. It is around $35 per sample. 

I need to do some this coming year. 
Best to do a younger goat (6-9 months)
An older goat
A buck
And another that either is suspect, having issues, hard keeper or something like that

Also a few years ago we were all discussing the Bose thing about the label and not giving it to bred animals. At the time @babsbag  was the only one I knew giving it and describing how often this was given. I was shocked. Learned a good deal from those conversations. After seeing so many UC Davis newslettters and seeing how many species are Se deficient it became very clear why Babs does what she does in her area. 

It goes to show that this is why it is important to know and understand your region... even down to the county because one part of the state may be completely different than another. Hay sources play a role as well. It is also good to learn over time your farm. your goats. There are many goat keepers around our immediate area. All of us have a different protocol for our herd. All of us have very healthy goats. Each of us will do what works for our farm, when something stops working or when management issues arise then we would change something. This weekend I was talking with a fellow goatkeeper and we were talking about BoSe and minerals etc... we have different practices... I am not changing what I am doing but I really like some of the things this breeder was doing. I just tucked it away for future reference.
The breeder we got our Nubian Buck from has a very different cocci prevention program- never heard of it before... it works great for her (huge herd) I paid attention... it is always good to see what others are doing.


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## babsbag (Nov 23, 2016)

@Southern by choice  cocci prevention for huge herd...I am all ears.


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## frustratedearthmother (Nov 23, 2016)

x2!


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2016)

If I could remember it that might be helpful.


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 23, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> If I could remember it that might be helpful.


Hmmmm.... Did they put Sulmet of DiMethox in the water?


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## babsbag (Nov 23, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> If I could remember it that might be helpful.



Yeah, I can relate, but really not very  helpful


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 23, 2016)

@Southern by choice is it the calf pro you are thinking about?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2016)

I don't remember.


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## Ferguson K (Nov 24, 2016)

Someone stop your short term memory, have you been hanging out with Dory?


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 20, 2016)

Can you still get Baycox? I can't find it anywhere for sale except some person selling it for horses on ebay and i dont wanna buy it there.


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## babsbag (Dec 20, 2016)

https://horseprerace.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=toltrazuril

I think that you will find that it is always for horses and it is used off off label for other animals. I don't think that you find a vet that will give it to you "legally".  I seem to recall that withdrawal times are unknown, not listed, or insanely long...there was something "different" about them and my friend wouldn't use it in Boer market wethers. I use it in my kids but they have a year before ever being milked.  I think I will be using Corid in the milk this year.


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 21, 2016)

From what i found Baycox is on label use for many critters. I found it for all calves, beef cows, pigs/piglets, poultry, and sheep/lambs, etc.......outside of the US like Canada, UK, Aussie. It seems pretty much everywhere except the US.

Withdrawal times for Baycox oral 5% suspension:
Pigs - 70 Days
Sheep/lambs - 48 Days
Cows/Calves - 63 Days (no veal allowed)

It does also say not to use in lactating animals producing milk for human consumption. So anyone using Baycox for dairy goats they use the milk from for humans...eeek.

https://www.drugs.com/vet/baycox-toltrazuril-5-oral-suspension-can.html

Also found withdrawal time for Baycox Poultry....this however seems to be a specific type of baycox
Poultry meat - 14 Days
Poultry Eggs - 8 Weeks

http://www.farmadvisor.com.au/products/view/?p=4

US FARAD
Recommends Withdrawal Times as follows:
Butcher Goats - 150 days
Milk Withdrawal - 42 days

So if you ever need to treat an adult thats the milk withdrawal. As far as selling butcher kids if your dosing up to 12 weeks that means the kid would need to be almost 8 months old before slaughter.


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## Latestarter (Dec 21, 2016)

Wow... that's a LONG time!  for all of them!


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## Ferguson K (Dec 21, 2016)

That's a little long.


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## babsbag (Dec 21, 2016)

And that is why my friend won't use it in market goats. I do use it in dairy kids. 

As a side note... I read a suggestion that does be given medicated feed 20 days prior to freshening with the intent of breaking the cocci cycle. The less there is in the environment the less exposure kids will have. Sounds like a good idea. Of course need to see what the milk withdrawal is for Rumensin...


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 22, 2016)

babsbag said:


> And that is why my friend won't use it in market goats. I do use it in dairy kids.
> 
> As a side note... I read a suggestion that does be given medicated feed 20 days prior to freshening with the intent of breaking the cocci cycle. The less there is in the environment the less exposure kids will have. Sounds like a good idea. Of course need to see what the milk withdrawal is for Rumensin...



According to FDA there is no slaughter or milk withdrawal time for Rumensin in cattle.....which i find odd since it says not for use in veal and no meat withdrawal in goats and it says do not give to lactating goats.




Latestarter said:


> Wow... that's a LONG time!  for all of them!





Ferguson K said:


> That's a little long.



Which is probly partly why it is not legal here for other critters unless you go off label. We tend to eat animals quite young. FARAD is pretty good for testing for residues after medication/antibotics are used and the fact they seemed scared to poo of Baycox(Toltrazuril) worries me a bit. The FDA will also not approve it, it seems.

All that aside there has been no offical milk withdrawal testing done for baycox, i'm not sure why.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 22, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> According to FDA there is no slaughter or milk withdrawal time for Rumensin in cattle.....which i find odd since it says not for use in veal and no meat withdrawal in goats and it says do not give to lactating goats.
> 
> 
> Which is probly partly why it is not legal here for other critters unless you go off label. We tend to eat animals quite young. FARAD is pretty good for testing for residues after medication/antibotics are used and the fact they seemed scared to poo of Baycox(Toltrazuril) worries me a bit. The FDA will also not approve it, it seems.
> ...


You will want to look at studies and info from Austrailia and the UK.
They are far more advanced than we are here.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 22, 2016)

We only use Toltrazuril on kids.  I've never had to treat a doe for coccidia.

We order ours from the Horseprerace.com website

The charge on your credit card will be in Panama.

But, it is shipped USPS flat rate from Florida. 

They cater pretty heavily to the buggy race and dog race industries which are about as sleezy as it gets.


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 22, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> You will want to look at studies and info from Austrailia and the UK.
> They are far more advanced than we are here.


 
On my to-do list lol


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 22, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> We only use Toltrazuril on kids.  I've never had to treat a doe for coccidia.
> 
> We order ours from the Horseprerace.com website
> 
> ...



The old-timey vet i had out last year had me treat my entire herd with corid because, the goat who had a corrid problem he believed was caused by other stress, kidding, and copper definacy...so he wanted me to do everyone because everyone was looking rough.

Also i guess if you dose corid at proper levels and rarely you dont have to worry about polio, thiamine, etc. Problem there is im not sure what they consider "proper levels" for a dwarf goat kid vs of adult etc.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 22, 2016)

None of us may like the directive or the gov interference over everything but the reality is it shouldn't be a big deal.
Everyone should have a livestock vet if they have livestock. The relationship with your vet is important.

Quite frankly I see too many that think they know what they are doing and they don't.  Lets just look at this forum alone. How many times you see people just throwing something at an animal... wrong dosage or not necessary for what is going on.

How many times can you all remember seeing on this forum the recommendation to have a fecal checked, see your vet etc. and a poster will not do the simplest thing and either they throw the kitchen sink at them or the animal dies because of something so preventable.

Everything on our farm IS supervised by our vet/s. We do not ever give anything off label or any anti-biotic etc without approval and supervision of our vet/s.  Granted we have good vets here and not every place does. Every once in a while there is disagreement but we work it out.


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 22, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> None of us may like the directive or the gov interference over everything but the reality is it shouldn't be a big deal.
> Everyone should have a livestock vet if they have livestock. The relationship with your vet is important.
> 
> Quite frankly I see too many that think they know what they are doing and they don't.  Lets just look at this forum alone. How many times you see people just throwing something at an animal... wrong dosage or not necessary for what is going on.
> ...



Having a vet would be nice.


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## Ferguson K (Dec 22, 2016)

We have two vets. Both vets we work with very closely. It's easier for me to spend the money and know than to guess and be wrong. 

When Damsel was hurt, we almost put her down. Vet #2 called me back off hours and said bring her in. I'll meet you there. Just stop the bleeding. 

When Anabelle was sick it was vet #1 who finally paired with the state vets and figured it all out. 

I love my vets .


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## NH homesteader (Dec 22, 2016)

I have a mediocre livestock vet maybe 6 miles away.  A really good one 25 miles away and an even better one 35 miles away.  I'm lucky. The best one is also the least expensive but doesn't do farm visits . however they specialize in goats and sheep. 

It does not appear that I will have any issues with the new law. And like SBC said,  there are times I cringe when people say all of the things they're throwing at their goats with out an understanding of why they're doing it. 

I wish  the new law would affect the CAFO operations but I have little hope it will. 

I am very careful with medications.  I don't feel comfortable giving most ofthem without a vet anyway!


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 22, 2016)

I know.... I saw on another VERY popular goat forum that someone was selling over 1/2 a bottle of NUFLOR!!!! 

(For those that don't know, its a Rx antibiotic and shouldn't be given out willy-nilly!!!!!)


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## Ferguson K (Dec 22, 2016)

You get Nuflor, and you get Nuflor, and you get Nuflor!


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## babsbag (Dec 22, 2016)

Rumensin is approved for use in dairy cows, actually supposed to increase milk production and it is deemed that any residue in the milk is safe for humans. I think the only reason it is not licensed for goats is because no research has been done.  The suggestion was to feed it to does starting 20 before kidding so they wouldn't be in milk anyways.


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 27, 2016)

babsbag said:


> Rumensin is approved for use in dairy cows, actually supposed to increase milk production and it is deemed that any residue in the milk is safe for humans. I think the only reason it is not licensed for goats is because no research has been done.  The suggestion was to feed it to does starting 20 before kidding so they wouldn't be in milk anyways.



No they wouldnt be in milk 20 days before kidding unless they are like mine and refuse to dry off...the buggers.


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 27, 2016)

Found this

http://www.kepro.nl/en/products/kepcox-2-5-oral-2/

Toltrazuril meat withdrawal - 42 days in the Netherlands.
They also apparently have a brand called kepcox there made by the website i linked. 
Approved for Calves, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, and Poultry including Turkey's.

Thats rather funny.
Maker - Kepro - Product Name - Kepcox
Maker - Bayer - Product Name - Baycox
Really creative people there 

Also note there is a dosing difference and possible withdrawal difference between the Baycox and Kepcox. Baycox is 5% and Kepcox is 2.5%


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