# Line breeding question



## Bowman85 (Dec 4, 2016)

I'm very new to goats at least for other then stock show. I'm confused on line breeding. Is there a certain percentage not to consider or not. And should I be concerned if the doe I've chosen who kids in spring has inbred %.


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## babsbag (Dec 4, 2016)

I can't give you an actual number but I will breed my does back to their sire for one generation. The new kids will not be bred to their grandfather. I also will breed 1/2 sisters and brothers. 

I am sure that someone else will have some more "official" advice for you and will probably disagree with me too. I have been doing this for 8 years with no problems. Sometimes certain traits be magnified so you can get the best of the best or the worse of the worse. The better the quality of the animal the more likely it is that you will get nice off springs.


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## Bowman85 (Dec 4, 2016)

By sire you mean?


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## babsbag (Dec 4, 2016)

Their dad.  The mom is called the dam and the dad is called the sire.


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## NH homesteader (Dec 4, 2016)

If they know what they're doing then it's likely fine.  One of my does is a small percentage inbred.  I don't inbreed my animals myself,  unless the offspring is destined for the freezer.  But there's nothing wrong with it.  I just don't know how to not mess up doing it, so I play it safe lol!


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## Bowman85 (Dec 4, 2016)

Lol,
 Sorry my dad? Part of their sentence didn't make it in to the question. Thanks I just wanted to check. Since we are new to this.


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## farmerjan (Dec 4, 2016)

The whole idea of line breeding is to accentuate  certain desired traits in the off spring.  It is not advised for someone new to breeding animals nor for someone who doesn't know the background of the animals they have.  The best thing is to get  a male that is unrelated to your animals, and see what the young ones turn out to be.   Then see how they grow and decide what you are trying to achieve.  If you want milking goats, then you have to at least milk the offspring for awhile to just see how good they are and if the sire (father) made them to be better milkers than the  dam (mother).  If you are looking at meat goats, then the offspring need to be better than the parents.  If  not, then there is no reason to consider line breeding.  You need to find a male that will compliment your females before you can consider  concentrating any of those traits.  You can cause more problems in the long run if you keep kids out of  a closely bred / line breeding and there are undesireable traits that come out.  
Since you said that you are new to this, I would not recommend it until you get more familiar with all the aspects of your goats.


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## Bowman85 (Dec 4, 2016)

I'm not planning on line breeding. I was making sure I wasn't going to mess up getting some goats that have been line bred a little. I'm not experienced enough for all that. I'll have to call help when it's time to decide who to keep and such. But that'll be a while, since the babies we are getting won't be here till Feb or March.


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## Bowman85 (Dec 4, 2016)

Plus then they have to grow and reach appropriate age and weight.


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## farmerjan (Dec 4, 2016)

Bowman85 said:


> I'm not planning on line breeding. I was making sure I wasn't going to mess up getting some goats that have been line bred a little. I'm not experienced enough for all that. I'll have to call help when it's time to decide who to keep and such. But that'll be a while, since the babies we are getting won't be here till Feb or March.



If you are getting some that have some line breeding in their background then the breeder  has put effort into trying to concentrate some desirable traits in the goats.  And if they are telling you this, then they sound like a very  good concientious (sp?) breeder and that you can/should ask lots of questions and they  should be able to steer you right.  If you get good goats, and they do good for you, you will be more likely to refer them, and possibly get more from them in the future.  And they will hopefully be able to give you advice on breeding in the future too. 
Sounds like you picked a good source to get your start in goats.


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## NH homesteader (Dec 4, 2016)

My thought was if they actually give you a percentage they likely know what they're doing!


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## farmerjan (Dec 4, 2016)

Agree


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## Bowman85 (Dec 4, 2016)

The breeder I am getting our goats is very awesome. She has answered a huge amount of questions these last two days. And is very helpful, I just hadn't heard about line breeding and inbreeding. I'm very grateful for everyone's input. And thankful for the breeder I'm going to be purchasing from.


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## Bowman85 (Dec 4, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> My thought was if they actually give you a percentage they likely know what they're doing!


The breeder I'm purchasing from has a pedigree set out for all of her does that are breed.  She is a wonderful lady.


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## babsbag (Dec 5, 2016)

You can go on to ADGAGENETICS.ORG and enter the name of the sire and dam and it will tell what percentage inbred their offspring will be. 

I have never had a problem doing one generation, they would be 25% inbred. I would never want to go beyond that. If you start breeding your goats and keeping their offspring it can get hard to keep getting new bucks to breed to. I am going to be facing that again very soon and I LIKE my buck 

They say that the difference between inbredding and line breeding is they call it line breeding when it works well and inbreeding when it fails.


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## farmerjan (Dec 5, 2016)

In-breeding is more than not knowing what you are doing believe me.  It is a combination of not being careful of the genetics and keeping track, and using crosses that are too closely related too often.  In breeding is more of brother-sister, then mother-son-grandson without a break in the generations, and it happening too often.  It not only will concentrate the genes that you want, but will greatly enhance the defects too.  Sometimes it is inevitable to use a closely related male if none other are available.  Alot of inbreeding is indiscriminate, where as most all line breeding is pretty carefully planned out by  a breeder to achieve a certain goal.  Alot of inbreeding occurs by accident too, those guys get  a little too mature too quick before they get weaned off.  Have had it happen a time or two in the sheep  oops.


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## samssimonsays (Dec 5, 2016)

My nubian doe is the product of 1/2 siblings breeding. On purpose. She has more than doubled what her mom has done in ease in milking and production, that is why she was sold as a kid and I lucked out in getting her. The breeding was in favor as the grand sire was really great for milk genetics and showing. In rabbits my rule of thumb was no more than 2 father/daughter or mother/son per 3 generations on a pedigree. I dislike doing full siblings but 1/2 had given me amazing results in rabbits.


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## Bowman85 (Dec 5, 2016)

Thanks for all the information. Hopefully I'll figure it all out. We will only have one buck for now. And I only plan on keeping my original three.


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## farmerjan (Dec 5, 2016)

samssimonsays said:


> My nubian doe is the product of 1/2 siblings breeding. On purpose. She has more than doubled what her mom has done in ease in milking and production, that is why she was sold as a kid and I lucked out in getting her. The breeding was in favor as the grand sire was really great for milk genetics and showing. In rabbits my rule of thumb was no more than 2 father/daughter or mother/son per 3 generations on a pedigree. I dislike doing full siblings but 1/2 had given me amazing results in rabbits.


My point exactly, you do it on purpose with a reasonable amount of restraint for the number of times in a certain  line and try to make sure there are good indications for a success.  Half siblings can be a great combination as your doe has proven, but you would not go back and breed her back to an immediate close family member without alot of consideration.  Obviously you know what you are doing.


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