# 3 month old heifer refusing a bottle



## hailey sullenberger (Aug 14, 2016)

My 3 month old heifer has taken a bottle since day one. Now all of a sudden she is refusing the bottle and wants nothing to do with it. She eat lots of hay and drinks plenty of water. Should I worry about her or is she just weaning herself off the bottle?


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## Latestarter (Aug 15, 2016)

Greetings and welcome to BYH. I don't know much about cows, but from what I recall reading, weaning at 3 months is a good starting time. Some leave their calves on mom/bottle longer, but it isn't "necessary". Sounds like she's weaning herself. Are you giving her any higher protein food/feed or just the hay? I think I recall that growing calves should also be introduced to and then fed some higher protein feed as they grow. I'll have to defer to others:

@WildRoseBeef @greybeard @jhm47 I'm sure there are some others I can't recall... Glad you joined us. Make yourself at home!


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## hailey sullenberger (Aug 15, 2016)

Thank you! I haven't given her any thing other than hay, I was thinking about adding grain but I wasn't sure. Thanks a lot for the advise!


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## Latestarter (Aug 15, 2016)

Just whatever you add, do it slowly and work up to the desired amount & monitor for scours. Also monitor for body progress/formation/growth over time. Good luck!


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## Goatgirl47 (Aug 15, 2016)

I wouldn't wean at three months old if it was possible not to, as I think that is way too young. All the calves I have ever seen weaned at 3-4 months were severely stunted. That being said, a lot of people do wean at that age and are successful. I'm sure you wanted her to nurse for a longer period of time though. 
If your heifer is refusing to take the bottle than you may just have to wean her now. And I think you will need to slowly introduce her to grain, as @Latestarter mentioned. I don't know how much she needs though as we have 100 percent grassfed cows right now and we've never had to feed our calves grain.


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## NH homesteader (Aug 15, 2016)

My mostly clueless friend has a 7 month old cow who he weaned at 3 months and he is TINY! But I don't know anything about cows so I didn't know if that was why.  He seems healthy (to the untrained eye) ,  just ridiculously small.


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## babsbag (Aug 15, 2016)

I don't believe @hailey sullenberger WANTS to wean at 3 months, the calf appears to be doing it herself. Or else something else is wrong. Hopefully one of our "cattle" members will check in soon. In the meantime...have you taken her temperature?


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## WildRoseBeef (Aug 15, 2016)

Thanks for the PM @hailey sullenberger as I mentioned to you I have a strong suspicion that she is weaning herself and is letting you know about it by refusing the bottle. At three months old a calf's rumen system has reached maturity and is ready to take on a full-feed diet minus the milk replacer. And IMHO it's pretty hard to slowly wean her off the bottle when she's already outright refused it and won't suckle from it again.

What is her breed? How much does she weigh, and what kind of hay are you giving her? Any additional supplements?

And because @babsbag might be wondering: Is she showing any abnormal symptoms: dry nose, listless, eyes dull, coughing, etc.? Or is she her happy, bouncy, normal self you see every day? And, can you share a picture with us? 

If she's not getting the nutrition she needs, she will end up stunted, as with any calf who is not getting adequate protein, energy, and other nutrients, this in terms of how much they are getting versus what they need. @Goatgirl47 You might be interested in this link that claims the old rules of thumb of feeding calves may have been the wrong way after all, so, possibly, it may not be the length of time to keep them on the bottle, but actually how much you give them: http://sciencenordic.com/calves-aren’t-being-given-enough-milk


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## greybeard (Aug 15, 2016)

I've raised lots and lots of calves on momma and very few on a bottle, but any time a sudden change takes place in a young calf's feeding routine, it's reason for concern. I've never had one volunteer to wean itself at 90 days, tho some producers do force weaning at that age. Mine would still be nursing at 8-12 months if I and momma allowed it.
Age is not the only factor where weaning is concerned.  Maturity and physical condition, daily weight gain and gain since birth IMO,  more important aspects.
What breed is it and how much do you estimate it weighs now?
Have you looked in it's mouth to see if there is anything that might make sucking difficult or painful?
(the process of eating hay is completely different from sucking on a bottle.
Body condition?
What formula milk substitute have you been feeding, and did it just suddenly stop or begin drinking less and less over a period of time? (Brand of milk substitute if you can please)
Have you changed anything at all in how you mix the formula?
Describe it's poop appearance.
Have you taken it's temp?
(I see wildrosebeef replied just before I did)


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## hailey sullenberger (Aug 16, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> I wouldn't wean at three months old if it was possible not to, as I think that is way too young. All the calves I have ever seen weaned at 3-4 months were severely stunted. That being said, a lot of people do wean at that age and are successful. I'm sure you wanted her to nurse for a longer period of time though.
> If your heifer is refusing to take the bottle than you may just have to wean her now. And I think you will need to slowly introduce her to grain, as @Latestarter mentioned. I don't know how much she needs though as we have 100 percent grassfed cows.


Thank you so much for the advise!


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## hailey sullenberger (Aug 16, 2016)

babsbag said:


> I don't believe @hailey sullenberger WANTS to wean at 3 months, the calf appears to be doing it herself. Or else something else is wrong. Hopefully one of our "cattle" members will check in soon. In the meantime...have you taken her temperature?


I have not. I am located in Delaware and we have a huge heat wave coming through right now so I know they are hot I have a huge fan facing her to cool her off/ keep the flys away. I will definitely take her temp though! Thank you!


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## hailey sullenberger (Aug 16, 2016)

WildRoseBeef said:


> Thanks for the PM @hailey sullenberger as I mentioned to you I have a strong suspicion that she is weaning herself and is letting you know about it by refusing the bottle. At three months old a calf's rumen system has reached maturity and is ready to take on a full-feed diet minus the milk replacer. And IMHO it's pretty hard to slowly wean her off the bottle when she's already outright refused it and won't suckle from it again.
> 
> What is her breed? How much does she weigh, and what kind of hay are you giving her? Any additional supplements?
> 
> ...


She is an angus and probably about 100 pounds. I have not given her anything but hay and water. I was thinking about adding in some grain she is a very happy girl and has even jumped out of her stable the day after I post about her situation. In the picture she is standing next to our other heifer we purchased with her. She is the one all the way to the right!


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## hailey sullenberger (Aug 16, 2016)

greybeard said:


> I've raised lots and lots of calves on momma and very few on a bottle, but any time a sudden change takes place in a young calf's feeding routine, it's reason for concern. I've never had one volunteer to wean itself at 90 days, tho some producers do force weaning at that age. Mine would still be nursing at 8-12 months if I and momma allowed it.
> Age is not the only factor where weaning is concerned.  Maturity and physical condition, daily weight gain and gain since birth IMO,  more important aspects.
> What breed is it and how much do you estimate it weighs now?
> Have you looked in it's mouth to see if there is anything that might make sucking difficult or painful?
> ...


I haven't taken her temp. She is an angus and about 100 pounds she is acting completely normal with no other signs that worry me just the rufusal of the bottle I am going to try grain is there any particular kind I should purchase or is any grain fine?


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## farmerjan (Aug 16, 2016)

I have several jersey, guernsey and holstein cross cows that I use as nurse cows and have raised hundreds of bottle calves over the past 40 plus years.  If the heifer is refusing the bottle you will have to supplement her hay with a calf grower feed of some type that is in the 14-16% protein range.  She sounds small for that age.  She could have been a twin but it sounds more like she is older than you think and may have been stunted .  We have an angus heifer that was orphaned and only weighs 400 at a year, she had to forage for whatever she could until she could be caught, and just didn't grow.  She will never amount to much and will never be bred but put in the freezer by 2 no matter her size.  Did you buy these calves from someone you know or at the local stockyard? Do not feed her much, if any, alfalfa hay as it will cause some scours even though the protein is higher.  Grain will help keep her from getting the typical "hay gut or hay belly" that is common in calves that don't get enough decent protein when they are young and growing. Milk replacer is in the 20% range so  you have to compensate for the grass hay that will run in the 8-12% range normally.  Do not keep this one for breeding, she will most likely have major trouble and it could easily kill her to try to calve.  Even with an easy calving bull, the calf would weigh in the 50-70 lb range. She is a freezer candidate and you may wind up putting alot more into her than would be practical. Sad but a fact of life.  You said that  you have to watch your expenses so don't let her be a millstone.  We have some red poll beef cattle and they are not much on eating grain but prefer to graze; but the calves stay on the cows until about 7 months. We wean most of the beef calves in the 7 month age range,and I wean the calves off the dairy cows when it suits and they are bred back etc. Hope this helps.


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## Latestarter (Aug 16, 2016)

Greetings @farmerjan and welcome to BYH!  Your knowledge and experience will be welcomed on the boards! Thanks for taking the time for a detailed response to another new member! I hope you won't mind me "tagging" you in future posts where folks are looking for help with cow issues. I hope you'll stick around with the herd. Make your self at home, and glad you joined.


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## hailey sullenberger (Aug 16, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> I have several jersey, guernsey and holstein cross cows that I use as nurse cows and have raised hundreds of bottle calves over the past 40 plus years.  If the heifer is refusing the bottle you will have to supplement her hay with a calf grower feed of some type that is in the 14-16% protein range.  She sounds small for that age.  She could have been a twin but it sounds more like she is older than you think and may have been stunted .  We have an angus heifer that was orphaned and only weighs 400 at a year, she had to forage for whatever she could until she could be caught, and just didn't grow.  She will never amount to much and will never be bred but put in the freezer by 2 no matter her size.  Did you buy these calves from someone you know or at the local stockyard? Do not feed her much, if any, alfalfa hay as it will cause some scours even though the protein is higher.  Grain will help keep her from getting the typical "hay gut or hay belly" that is common in calves that don't get enough decent protein when they are young and growing. Milk replacer is in the 20% range so  you have to compensate for the grass hay that will run in the 8-12% range normally.  Do not keep this one for breeding, she will most likely have major trouble and it could easily kill her to try to calve.  Even with an easy calving bull, the calf would weigh in the 50-70 lb range. She is a freezer candidate and you may wind up putting alot more into her than would be practical. Sad but a fact of life.  You said that  you have to watch your expenses so don't let her be a millstone.  We have some red poll beef cattle and they are not much on eating grain but prefer to graze; but the calves stay on the cows until about 7 months. We wean most of the beef calves in the 7 month age range,and I wean the calves off the dairy cows when it suits and they are bred back etc. Hope this helps.


Thank you for the advise we bought her from a local farmer I was hopping to train her and start the show her I knew anything could happen so I purchased 2 heifers incase something like this happened


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## farmerjan (Aug 17, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Greetings @farmerjan and welcome to BYH!  Your knowledge and experience will be welcomed on the boards! Thanks for taking the time for a detailed response to another new member! I hope you won't mind me "tagging" you in future posts where folks are looking for help with cow issues. I hope you'll stick around with the herd. Make your self at home, and glad you joined.


Can't figure out how to post information about myself so that people aren't just looking at nothing!!  I am female, not male, don't even know how that got all messed up. I will be gone til the weekend, maybe someone can talk me through the basics to at least get myself properly introduced after I get back.  Thanks.


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## Latestarter (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm sure any one of us will be glad to help you when you're back and ready. Have a safe trip!


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## greybeard (Aug 17, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> Can't figure out how to post information about myself so that people aren't just looking at nothing!!  I am female, not male, don't even know how that got all messed up.


Log in, then click on your username at the top right of the page. It should bring up your profile page, that says something like:
http://www.backyardherds.com/account/.
You can also just hold your cursor over the same username--just to the left of 'inbox'. A drop down box will appear and you will then click "personal details". you can edit your profile from there. t the bottom of that page, below gender/birthday etc, there is an "about you" text box in which you can type in anything about yourself you wish, tho that option may not exist for newest of members.
That page looks similar to this (only larger) :


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## cjc (Aug 25, 2016)

I have 7 calves on a bottle right now. My 2.5 month old Angus Heifers are weighing about 225lbs last time I checked, 100lbs is quiet small. Most of mine are 100lbs by 2-4 weeks old if not 150lbs. I have a 4 month old calf I still have on a bottle. He refused the bottle one day and it came with the runs. I gave him 2 days of only grain and electrolytes and he was back to normal. I checked his  temperature right away and decided not to treat him with any medications as his temp was normal. Bad hay can cause an upset stomach...I would check my hay as well.

I have had a few of them start walking slower when its bottle time or care less but they definitely aren't refusing it usually unless something is up. My oldest is starting to wean himself somewhat, he just doesn't care as much but if I am offering he's drinking. In my opinion I would be offering grain much more than I would be offering hay to this calf. I would offer both but at 2 months old this calf should be eating a fair bit of grain a day and I would start offering it free choice now. It was suggested to me by a vet not to offer hay until 2 months old. Milk until 3 months, grain starting at 7 days and hay at 2 months.


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## farmerjan (Aug 27, 2016)

Basically agree with cjc.   Dairy farmers will wean anywhere from 6 weeks to 3 months, that is after the calves are eating grain.  Beef calves will continue to nurse as long as momma lets them or until weaned by the farmer. You will see babies "copying" their mommas and chewing on grass and hay as little as 2 weeks but  their rumen doesn't develop much until a couple of months.  I offer hay free choice to calves from about a month, so they learn to get a feel for it if they are bottle calves.  Since they are bottle calves, they can't just go get a little something when they want like a calf on a cow; those eat alot less per feeding, just eat alot more often. Another reason to give bottle calves grain so that they can munch on something and get more protein to grow.


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## farmerjan (Aug 27, 2016)

greybeard said:


> Log in, then click on your username at the top right of the page. It should bring up your profile page, that says something like:
> http://www.backyardherds.com/account/.
> You can also just hold your cursor over the same username--just to the left of 'inbox'. A drop down box will appear and you will then click "personal details". you can edit your profile from there. t the bottom of that page, below gender/birthday etc, there is an "about you" text box in which you can type in anything about yourself you wish, tho that option may not exist for newest of members.
> That page looks similar to this (only larger) :
> View attachment 20818


Thanks for the help.  I am definitely not a big computer person.  Think that I got it figured out and at least fixed the "gender"!!!!! HA HA HA.  I don't go on the computer alot and will have to upgrade as I am still using an old windows xp version. But for now it is still working. We have had quite a bit of rain so haying has been difficult but it dried up these last few days and I have been on the tractor raking several afternoons after getting home from milk testing.  Fall calving season is starting, got the first 2 new calves on the first calf heifers. We usually calve 10 to 20 new heifers a year, as well as the cows. We split it into 2 groups, spring and fall with 80 to 100 in each group.  Normally mostly calve the heifers in the spring but this group was getting  a little older so we opted for early fall.  Good year for it since pastures have been so lush all year. Cows will be starting in another week or two and hope to be done by mid-nov.   Gotta head out , thanks again.


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## farmerjan (Aug 27, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> I'm sure any one of us will be glad to help you when you're back and ready. Have a safe trip!


Thanks for the welcome etc.  Greybeard gave some more detailed instructions and I at least got the "gender" part fixed!!! Ha Ha .  I don't go on the computer alot but will be glad to share some of my years of experience.  I posted some stuff about me that I figure is available to others to read so you can see I have done a little over the years. Prefer to be smaller than we are, but my son is trying to pay for a recent farm purchase and so we are running alot of cattle and farming alot of land.  We rented most all that we farm until this purchase of 75 + acres, but there are 3 places that are now on the market so we will need to readjust when they are sold.  One place we have had for 25 years now has a contract on it so it may be gone this fall, the owner's wife passed on and he wants to move closer to his children and doesn't want all the work of the place anymore. It's alot of work to have so much scattered out but my son wants to retire from his job in 15 years to a paid for farm to enjoy soooo....I am 62+ and plan to retire from my job soon and want to have enough ss and retirement to live on and extra from my cattle sales to not struggle too much.  I can and freeze, and eat my own meat so don"t have  alot of expenses now, vehicles all paid for etc. Plan to do cow-shares for milk from my dairy cows once I get a little more time to spend with them again.  Have had severe knee and ankle issues and all the talk about replacements, but am trying something called PROLOTHERAPY that my "female" doctor told me about and cannot believe that it is not more widely known.  If it works as everyone says it will, I will not need any surgery.  Hope this isn't " TOO MUCH INFORMATION"  !!!!


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## Latestarter (Aug 27, 2016)

Sounds like you're doing OK for a gal your age.   Wonder where you get your energy.  Sorry about the med issues. Seems they strike all of us as we get up there in age. I don't even want to think about joint replacements or any major medical issues really. Only major issue I have is my lower back which I initially hurt back in '87. Never been the same since. But when it ails me, I just go easy for a bit till it mends up, then go back about my merry way. It's 'reminding me" that it's there right now matter of fact... Thanks for sharing a bit about you. Again, glad to have you here with us and hope you'll feel welcome and at home.


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## Fruin farm (Aug 28, 2016)

You don't want to take off the milk replacer until the calf  is eating at least two pounds of grain a day but again change must be done slowly however it is good to get the calf to drink from a bucket and get him off the bottle because it makes it hard to transition when they are used to drinking with their heads up we got our calf drinking from the bucket after 3 days typically completely off the bottle in one week of age. It's a lot easier just to put a milk bucket out verses having to bottle feed also don't let them in the past. When the grass is real when it's not healthy for them at first it could bloat and get sick. Introduce them to the pastor a little bit at the time and after the morning dew is gone


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## cjc (Aug 29, 2016)

@Fruin farm I have heard a lot of debate about feeding calves from a bucket and that the performance of the calf long term  declines when you feed them from a bucket rather than from a nipple. What are your thoughts/experience on that? I strictly keep to the bottle over the bucket because of the concern.


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## farmerjan (Aug 30, 2016)

If the calf is getting what it needs nutritionwise, I have not seen any difference in growth.  Done both, buckets are easier and most dairy farms also get them on buckets.  One thing, bottle calves and especially those raised on cows, are more likely to try to steal off cows in the field if not kept separate for  a good while.  If you are going to be putting them in the same field  after weaning, definitely try to get them on a bucket so they don't associate  milk with a nipple....


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