# Deep litter(bedding) in the barn.



## DonnaBelle (Apr 21, 2011)

I have my first barn.  It has a dirt floor.  We put down old hay for bedding.  The goats are outside during the day, brousing in the large brouse/pasture area.

I put down fresh hay every few days.  I call it "hay" but it's really mostly old grass hay that we just use for bedding.  I've been putting out a little alfalfa in the evenings, but mostly they brouse.

I sprinkle "stall dry" on the bedding usually every day.  I don't have any odor in the barn, but it is well ventilated.

I call this a "deep litter" method.  Does anyone else use this way of keeping their barn??

DonnaBelle


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## 20kidsonhill (Apr 21, 2011)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> I have my first barn.  It has a dirt floor.  We put down old hay for bedding.  The goats are outside during the day, brousing in the large brouse/pasture area.
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> I put down fresh hay every few days.  I call it "hay" but it's really mostly old grass hay that we just use for bedding.  I've been putting out a little alfalfa in the evenings, but mostly they brouse.
> 
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Yes, we do, I put bedding down as needed during the winter, we don't clean out for a couple years, we don't use hay as bedding we use only straw or corn fauder, I find hay stays too wet and smells more.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Apr 21, 2011)

I do the same...but I use straw in the barn as well.  But I clean mine every spring.  I dont let it go a couple of years because of worm loads etc.  I like them to start clean every winter cuz in NH they dont really go out much in the winter.  

We also put a layer of sand on top of the soil so the liquid drains better.   The add straw.


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## phoenixmama (Apr 21, 2011)

That's about what we are doing.  We live in the low Sonoran desert in Arizona, so I don't worry about things getting too wet in the barn.  I throw down wasted alfalfa, cheap cow hay, and Sweet PDZ (like stall dry).  No odor problems here.  I just wish there was a rake that wouldn't let the goat berries slip by...


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## helmstead (Apr 21, 2011)

I tried that this winter and will NEVER, EVER EVER do it again.  It took me TWO DAYS to clean one 12x12 area and I had to get the tractor with the scraper blade to clean the loafing shed outside.  Back breaking and GROSS.  The smell would gag a maggot on a gut truck.

After dealing with a particularly persistent staph a. on my milkers, my vet also informed me that 'deep litter' methods can harbor not only lice/mites, but also are the perfect 'holding tank' for heat and moisture loving bacteria like staph a.

As I said, never again.  Blegh and ouch.


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## julieq (Apr 21, 2011)

Our ND's are in the barn full time, so we use pine shavings and clean every few days down to the rubber mats.  We tried straw but it was just too heavy to lift and clean out after it got wet.


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## carolinagirl (Apr 21, 2011)

We did the deep bedding thing with our goats and it was the worst thing to clean out when the time came.  As helmsted said, it was backbreaking to clean it out.  I won't do that again.  When I get my sheep, I do plan to have a barn for them but they will have access to a pasture too so don't expect them to foul up the barn too bad.  I'll clean it as needed, with a nice fresh bed of straw when winter and gets here.


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## warthog (Apr 21, 2011)

Yep I do this too.  I do clean out every 3 months or so, and last time it did take me most of the morning to clean out a 16 x 8 area.

I didn't find it smelly at all.

I start with wood shavings on the base, followed by hay, then all the hay they waste goes down as bedding too.

This will only be my second time of doing this, and we are into our hottest months now, I will be cleaning out again before we get into our wet season, and see how things go.

But up to now it seems to be working OK.


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## sunfisher (Apr 21, 2011)

I also agree with helmstead.. I will never let the barn get that far again! It was back breaking cleaning!! my husband did get a good laugh at me as I tried to put nasty stinky straw in the wagon..I was yelling "oh gross, oh the smell, this is so nasty..It was my idea so my job to clean it :/   plus my goat had lice and mites (yucky) I now clean every few days as needed soooo much easier!


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## phoenixmama (Apr 21, 2011)

This really seems to be one of those things that will work or won't...depending on your climate.  Take the lice and mites, for example.  It gets too dang hot here in the summertime for lice and mites...they die off in the heat of summer.  It easily hits 130-140 degrees inside that barn depending on the time of day.  Good luck, lice...thanks for coming out!

The hay has been down in our 8X14 barn for about a year.  I was curious to see what the smell situation was, so the other day I dug down to the dirt in one spot that is frequently urinated on.  It was dry as a bone and smelled a bit ammonia-ey, but not overwhelming.


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## DonnaBelle (Apr 21, 2011)

I'm sure glad to hear from other folks about this issue.  

I have been using the hay on the floor of the barn for some time now.  DH goes out and picks up the Nannie berries with a hay fork, puts that hay/poop mixture on a pile, then tills it in the garden in early spring.

I sprinkle the "stall dry" (sweet pdz) on the barn hay and I have a well ventilated barn.  I don't seem to have much of a problem with odor.    I do have some flies, but I'm going to do the fly predators again this year.  I think that does help some.

Since I have the goat pen/barn pretty close to the house, I want to keep the fly population down.  Of course, here in Oklahoma you either have the heat or the A/C one going all the time.  On a few days you can open the windows but then the dust fogs in so there you go.

I keep the water buckets clean and the goats are just in the barn at night to sleep.  

DonnaBelle


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## chandasue (Apr 21, 2011)

I only do it through the winter mostly out of laziness and hating winter. I don't have anywhere to go with the wasted hay in the winter anyway. But it kills my back to do it. Spring through fall I clean the stall area every 2 weeks. I think it is actually easier and I like an excuse to be in the barn longer when the weather is nice.


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## elevan (Apr 21, 2011)

chandasue said:
			
		

> I only do it through the winter mostly out of laziness and hating winter. I don't have anywhere to go with the wasted hay in the winter anyway. But it kills my back to do it. Spring through fall I clean the stall area every 2 weeks. I think it is actually easier and I like an excuse to be in the barn longer when the weather is nice.


Yep, that's pretty much how I do it too


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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

I do deep litter in the winter but I only start letting it build up as the weather starts getting cold at night.  I start with shavings and add leaves if they come off the trees when it is dry.  Then I just let wasted hay pile up. 

I will add stemmy grass hay or straw if needed (rare, they are such wasteful creatures!) on top and will clean out the area by the open door on occasion after a lot of rain or snow as it gets too wet there to wait until spring.

In the spring, I do the big, backbreaking cleanout.  I wait until there is no danger of frost and the nights are warming up.  I got two of the three stalls done and the large communal stall will be last.

I have big gardens so I remind myself with each load that this will make the loveliest compost ever for my veggies and flowers!   Last year I put a lot of it in my veg garden paths in very thick layers so I would only have to haul it once.  It has since completely disappeared into the garden soil.  That particular garden was amazing.  I'll be doing it again.  Soon. 

So I don't do deep litter in the warmer months.  They will have a light layer of shavings, just enough to absorb indoor potty stuff, in the communal stall.  They prefer to sleep on the bare ground anyways when it is hot.  Any stalls that contain confined goats will be bedded a bit more deeply but cleaned often during warm months, like any kids who hang around before finding new homes.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> The smell would gag a maggot on a gut truck.


   ... ...  ...


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)

we tried doing the deep little method this winter and it didn't work very well. The smell(amonia) was unbearable after about a week and a half, even with using dolomitic lime. Not sure what can be done to lett the goat berries go to their own little place. Thinking of building the new barn with a tiny hole grate floor( to allow the berries to fall through onto a slanted "subfloor"(IE the ground) and down into a fertilizer bin of sorts, without allowing a hoof to get stuck). I live on the side of a mountain, so the whole slanted "subfloor" idea would work well... and the bin would be the entire under neath of the barn, accessable by an locking external sliding panel on the deep end(IE front) of the barn.  I would put a heavy layer of straw down over the grates in their stalls and occassionally shift it around to allow any berries down through the grate.

At the moment this is all theory, of course, but it seems like it could work.


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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

Hmmm....I never get a bad smell in my barn.  Then again, I only use this method in the cool to cold weather and layer it up with straw/hay if they need a dry layer.


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## RockyToggRanch (Apr 22, 2011)

This will be my 2nd spring clean out. It is an awful job to do. I'll never do it again now that I have discover RATS in it! I've never had a rat in my barn before...mice yes...RATS?????

I just saw about a dz of them scurry when I turned on a light last night 

Now what to do :/  I can't use poison... I'm just sick over it!


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## 20kidsonhill (Apr 22, 2011)

I quess when I say we leave ours go 2 years, I should mention we have equipement to clean it out and spread it. We don't pick up a shovel for more than 10 minutes.  We also have our barn set up so that all the things can be taken down and moved out, so the barn is completely empty, Then after we clean it all out with the tractor, we powerwash the entire barn.and leave it sit empty for a month or so. 

We have calf huts in the field for the goats, once babies are weaned adult goats are locked from the main barn area and kept on pasture or hay.  

We have dirt floors. 

The only mites/lice I have ever had, came on a new doe Ipurchased, and they had told us they had lice reallly bad, so we isolated 

Doesn't normally smell too bad, just had some company the other day and they commented about the smell or lack of smell, then he comfirmed what we alread new, using straw isn't as smelly as bedding with hay. 

We don't hav much problems with wasted hay, Our feeders do a really good job with that, and although we don't limit the amount of hay they get, I try to put out just what they eat in 12 hours so they clean it up. sometimes there is a little too much, and sometimes I can tell the bale was smaller or they were hungrier and I put out a little extra the next feeding. 

I am sure kind of barn, kind of flooring, location of farm all matter for what works for you.   

But it is nice to see/hear what everyone else is doing.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Apr 22, 2011)

I never had a problem with wetness or odor, ever.  In November before the snow really starts flying we clean out well...then put a new layer of sand and add staw.  We add new straw bales over weeks. 

I can literally sit on the floor in the barn in the middle of winter with no wetness issues.  I think the sand helps tremendously.   

I dont find it difficult at all to clean in the spring.  But I too have a tractor.  And straw is pretty light regardless if wet or dry. 

I think it depends on climate and soils too.  Soil holds alot of moisture and odor...thats why we use sand underneath.  Same theory as a leech field.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 22, 2011)

RockyToggRanch said:
			
		

> This will be my 2nd spring clean out. It is an awful job to do. I'll never do it again now that I have discover RATS in it! I've never had a rat in my barn before...mice yes...RATS?????
> 
> I just saw about a dz of them scurry when I turned on a light last night
> 
> Now what to do :/  I can't use poison... I'm just sick over it!


Have-a-heart traps & a bb gun, trust me!!  My Daisy bb gun works good enough(with bbs not pellets) to kill skunks from 3 feet away! Should only take 1-3 shots to their head and then you can dispose of them.


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## PattySh (Apr 22, 2011)

Never had a problem with smell either. I deep bed in the winter and we've had no lice or mite problem. It keeps them warm. I have rubber mats and we do a shavings layer then let the hay build up. Takes an old fashioned hay fork and several hours to muck out a 12 x 12 stall but worth it, goats are cozy all winter. We compost it for the garden. They waster so much hay that they are never laying in a dirty area! Summer I pick up all the wasted hay and give it to the cows or horses who are not so picky as the divas. We have the compost pile fairly close to the barn and either use a wheelbarrow or large plastic sled depending on the ground wetness, sled most often works better this season. Someone forks, someone lugs, teamwork.

Rats are hard, once you take out the deep bedding they may go away(or they may dig under your barn). Make sure they can't get into your grain. We have mice in the tack room that I do poison. I don't leave poison out near the goat pens tho so in the winter some thrive! Tend to get them in the spring when they look for food in the tack room (feed stored in metal cans in there). Year ago I used to feed the kennel dogs outside and on a drought year it called huge wood rats. We eliminated feeding the dogs outside and they went back in to the woods.


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## elevan (Apr 22, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

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That's one method that definitely works.

I also find the water bucket method works well.  Put a full bucket of water (5 gallon works best) in an out of the way place that the goats can't get to it and drink.  Near where you keep your grain works the best.  The rats go in to drink and can't get out and drown.  You just have to dump the bucket, dispose of the rats and refill.  I've gone to the barn to find up to 8 rats have drowned in the bucket overnight before    I hate rats!!

Too bad I can't let my Basenji loose in the barn...he hates rats too and has dispatched plenty in the yard and even 1 that made it to the house.  Boingo is my hero  <3


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## RockyToggRanch (Apr 22, 2011)

Can more than one rat at a time go into a live trap?

I can't poison...I'd be afraid my cat would eat a tainted mouse.

I have 5 water buckets out and have never had a rat in one. I did have a mouse in one last fall.

I'm sure they're wood rats as I'm surrounded by state forest.

My feed cans are secure.

Sorry to hijack your thread

I thought deep litter was great for the goats too. It gets cold here and I leave my barn open all winter for ventilation.


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## elevan (Apr 22, 2011)

RockyToggRanch said:
			
		

> Can more than one rat at a time go into a live trap?
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> I can't poison...I'd be afraid my cat would eat a tainted mouse.
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This is a great multi-catch rat trap

http://www.eggcartons.com/Multi-Catch-Round-Cage-Rat-Trap/productinfo/FHP-RT2/


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## secuono (Apr 22, 2011)

I use this in the chicken coop. As long as you don't neglect it, perfectly fine.


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## RockyToggRanch (Apr 23, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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I just ordered 2 of these! Thank you!

Now what to do with a basket full of rats :/


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## helmstead (Apr 23, 2011)

RockyToggRanch said:
			
		

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That is a NEAT trap!

Rocky - when I used to catch warf rats in live traps, I'd fill a muck bucket with water and just drop the trap in there (this was before I had a hubby with a gun).


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## RockyToggRanch (Apr 26, 2011)

My traps came today...what kind of bait would you suggest? 

Eww...I want them out of my barn, but the thought of picking up a basket of them creeps me out  If I can catch a bunch of them I'll feel batter about digging out the deep bedding.


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## elevan (Apr 26, 2011)

RockyToggRanch said:
			
		

> My traps came today...what kind of bait would you suggest?
> 
> Eww...I want them out of my barn, but the thought of picking up a basket of them creeps me out  If I can catch a bunch of them I'll feel batter about digging out the deep bedding.


They are probably after the grain that may get left in feeders or dropped on the ground...I would start with a little grain.  It's funny that when one rat goes in, others will go in too when they see the first one even if there is not anymore bait  

Catfood is another great bait to use (dry).

I've dropped in a couple of blocks of rat bait / poison along with the bait (lure) before and then by the time I got a basketful they are dying from the poison.

helmstead's method works very well too.


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## RockyToggRanch (Apr 26, 2011)

I put some sweet feed in them. One in my feed room and one in the chicken coop. I hope the chickens don't get up early and get their heads stuck in it....


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## elevan (Apr 26, 2011)

RockyToggRanch said:
			
		

> I put some sweet feed in them. One in my feed room and one in the chicken coop. I hope the chickens don't get up early and get their heads stuck in it....


Do you have a milk crate?  If so, turn it upside down and place the trap under it.  Rats will still be able to get to the trap and bait...but your chickens won't.


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## RockyToggRanch (Apr 26, 2011)

Awesome idea! thank you!


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## elevan (Apr 26, 2011)

RockyToggRanch said:
			
		

> Awesome idea! thank you!


Unfortunately I've had to learn quite a few tricks to deal with rats.  And I hate them!

Of course my favorite method of dispatching them is to lock all of the farm animals in the barn in the fall...throw some feed in the field in an area I know the rats will come out...and "peg them off" with my 12 gauge.  Now that is satisfaction! I've taken out 15 rats in an hour that way.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 26, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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    Emily, you are my kind of woman! How to deal with rodents & other farm pests? Shoot them!!  Yeah, that is completely awesome right there!!  

 *high 5*


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## elevan (Apr 26, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

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Yep, those vermin need to be rightly afraid of me...  

My daddy taught me how to shoot and when he realized I was spot on shooting inanimate small objects he suggested I "off" the rats.  It's become a show so to speak...my family sits in the back yard in lawn chairs and watches me "peg" rats...granted a 12 gauge is a little bit of overkill, but like I said COMPLETE SATISFACTION!


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 27, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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Man! if only we lived closer to each other!  When I was 6-8 years old, my dad got a bb gun and set up a target area, the last target was an acron set on top of a plastic upside down child's play dish. My father, who has loads of military training couln't hit the acorn from 50 ft away with 6 shots. I hit the acorn dead center, 1 shot. When we moved to where we are now, my dad informed his new buddy(the town's chief of police) that If they ever needed a good shooter, that I was the one to call.  I still knock squirrels out of trees from 100 ft away and can kill skunks, no problem(bbs, not pellets). I need heavier artillary in order to eliminate the woodchuck though.


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