# Bratty goat...



## BlueMoonFarms (Mar 23, 2013)

Ok...Nutmeg,





My newest goat is starting to become a brat.
She has to be clipped into the fence for feeding or else she butts everyone out of the buckets and chases everyone away, she pegs me with her horns every-time I try to do her hooves, she chases everyone away from the buckets until shes clipped in, she puts the LGDs in there place *not that its a bad thing* and she chases the sheep out of the shealter's.
Today...she played chase me...in order for me to clip her into the fence for food.
Im not sure if shes going to be a good milker, as I have heard it varies, some evil goats just want the milk gone and dont care who takes it, and then some are just a pill and nock over buckets...
So, my question.
Is there anyway I can work with nutmeg? I pet her and love her every morning and evening, but i would really like to get her temper and attitude under control if its at all possible. Any advice?


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## Mamaboid (Mar 23, 2013)

BlueMoonFarms said:
			
		

> Ok...Nutmeg,
> http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/6998_img_0253.jpg
> My newest goat is starting to become a brat.
> She has to be clipped into the fence for feeding or else she butts everyone out of the buckets and chases everyone away, she pegs me with her horns every-time I try to do her hooves, she chases everyone away from the buckets until shes clipped in, she puts the LGDs in there place *not that its a bad thing* and she chases the sheep out of the shealter's.
> ...


Yup.  Treat her just like you would a spoiled child.  Reward good behavior, STRONGLY disagree with bad behavior.  Do not chase.  If she doesn't come to eat, take her food away until she does.  If she jumps on you knee her, loud NO or DOWN if that doesn't work, snap her on the nose or put her down on all fours by the ears.  They hate their ears pulled.  If she uses her horns on you literally grab them and throw her down on the ground and hold her there until she stops struggling.  As far as the other goats, she sounds like she is either herd queen or vying for that position and there isn't a lot you can do about that.  The other goats will learn to deal with it, so as long as she isn't hurting them, let them sort it out.  It takes patience and repetition, but with time and patience you can turn a brat into a good goat.  Good luck.


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## elevan (Mar 23, 2013)




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## BlueMoonFarms (Mar 23, 2013)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

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Ok, I will do that! She will get very witchy when I take her grain away for playing keep away, and if she pegs me again, ooh is she going to be unhappy... Hopefully this will help! I would really like to keep her, I do love her but if i cant correct this now I wont be able to. I cant have a "bratty" *lol* goat.


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## elevan (Mar 23, 2013)

Consistency is key.  Don't let her get away with it even once from now on.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Mar 23, 2013)

elevan said:
			
		

> Consistency is key.  Don't let her get away with it even once from now on.


Believe me i dont plan on it, i want to see if I can keep her! If she keeps causing problems then we might not be able to


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## BlueMoonFarms (Mar 25, 2013)

Ok, the good news is she appears to have thought twice about running away from me...
She now stays at her usual spot, and has done so since I posted. However, she is still a brat, and so come hoof time we will see if she decides to use her horns.

Oh one more question.
My goats all have free choice hay, get fed grain in the morning and have a free choice mineral. Yet Nutmeg has decided to eat the side of a stump, and shes carved a very deep hole int he side of it. She sits there and attacks it almost every day :/ is that just her being board? Or do you think shes missing something nutrition wise?


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 25, 2013)

Ahh, what a beauty. She is so precious. And she knows it, haha.

I have myself a little brat. She is about 5ish, she is a BEAUTY (Adding a picture) and she *OWNS* the herd. She is the boss, and controls it. She likes getting her way, and she makes sure she gets treats or feedings first. She is currently pregnant and loving the attention may I add. So much I think she is more excited about being pregnant and all the spoiling than the actual act of getting pregnant. 

Here she is with her first born, Button. We call her Mama.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Mar 25, 2013)

littlelambx3 said:
			
		

> Ahh, what a beauty. She is so precious. And she knows it, haha.
> 
> I have myself a little brat. She is about 5ish, she is a BEAUTY (Adding a picture) and she *OWNS* the herd. She is the boss, and controls it. She likes getting her way, and she makes sure she gets treats or feedings first. She is currently pregnant and loving the attention may I add. So much I think she is more excited about being pregnant and all the spoiling than the actual act of getting pregnant.
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Yes, yes she does! She knows shes spoiled, you should see her and my buck when i hold up crackers and call for them. STAMPEDE!!! 
Sounds like you have a handful also!!  Thats to cute.


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 26, 2013)

BlueMoonFarms said:
			
		

> Ok, the good news is she appears to have thought twice about running away from me...
> She now stays at her usual spot, and has done so since I posted. However, she is still a brat, and so come hoof time we will see if she decides to use her horns.
> 
> Oh one more question.
> My goats all have free choice hay, get fed grain in the morning and have a free choice mineral. Yet Nutmeg has decided to eat the side of a stump, and shes carved a very deep hole int he side of it. She sits there and attacks it almost every day :/ is that just her being board? Or do you think shes missing something nutrition wise?


If you don't have a stanchion yet, build one.  Put her in it and trim her hooves there.

On the stump -- maybe she likes the taste/texture?  She's a goat and goats browse.  They will strip bark from trees.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Mar 26, 2013)

SkyWarrior said:
			
		

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Hehehe, oh she will hate me for life if I do that. But yes, we are waiting for the gentlemen to finish building it, and then we will have it all ready 
I hope thats just the case, its a softer wood so the texture might be whats attracting her to it. Well at least she has her free choice mineral, that makes me feel better.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Apr 16, 2013)

Alright, three days in a row Nutmeg did not eat. Finally today, she stayed right at her spot and allowed me to clip her to the fence. She finally got her grain, and now she is very happy.
She tried to use her horns on me once, and bam...Right no the ground, and she stayed there until she stopped wiggling.
Since then, she has been wonderful. Hopefully I wont ever have to do this to her again, but I am so so happy that she is back to not being a huge...Brat.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Apr 25, 2013)

I need help again with my brat of a goat!
Every day, two-three times a day, once it was seven, she forces her head through the fence and gets stuck. The thing is, her head does not fit through the fence. She has to physically twist and push her head and horns through it in order to go after the grass she thinks is so much better on the other side...
This goat is not starved, she was just de-wormed, she did not do this all winter, we expanded the pen into the woods half an acre, and we put up chicken wire to keep her from going through it.
We cant electrify it as at the moment we can not afford it, but she is starting to really get annoying...
The biggest problem is 1.) she knows it will hurt to unstick her head and she tries to escape and get away when I walk up to her. and 2.) the only way I can get her unstuck by myself is by grabbing her leg, bending it back until her head gets into the position to unstick, and then pull...
I am not happy about it, I hate doing it, and she has been getting stuck so often that she going lame from me pulling on her leg so much!
I have tried everything else, she just keeps pushing forward to get out, and wont stop. Shes a big goat and by myself I just cant move her head and keep her back at the same time   
How can I keep her from sticking her head through??
Shes not starving, shes just been de-wormed, she has an entire half acre of new vegetation, a mineral lick, all the hay she can eat, and sweet feed grains till!!  WTH????
What can I do, and what can I try and do to get her unstuck without pulling on her poor leg. I dont want to hurt her but she just keeps doing this X_X


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## Southern by choice (Apr 25, 2013)

A bar across the horns with very strong duct tape OR she will get  it off. The bar needs to extend past her horns so she can't twist sideways and get through the fence..... tennis balls may be needed on the ends if she whacks other goats etc.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Apr 26, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> A bar across the horns with very strong duct tape OR she will get  it off. The bar needs to extend past her horns so she can't twist sideways and get through the fence..... tennis balls may be needed on the ends if she whacks other goats etc.


I think I will try that!! Thank you!


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## BlueMoonFarms (Apr 26, 2013)

So...
The only duck-tape we had was purple, and neon yellow...
So, we went with yellow, thinking it would match her fur. >_> No..not really...
My goat is walking around with a neon yellow headlight on her horns...But! She cant go through the fence  Ugh...She is plotting my murder as we speak...


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## Pioneer Chicken (Apr 26, 2013)

BlueMoonFarms said:
			
		

> So...
> The only duck-tape we had was purple, and neon yellow...
> So, we went with yellow, thinking it would match her fur. >_> No..not really...
> My goat is walking around with a neon yellow headlight on her horns...But! She cant go through the fence  Ugh...She is plotting my murder as we speak...


Yikes! It's not fun having a temper-tantrum goat.  One of our does likes to nibble/bite me on the milkstand if she can.  Naughty goat!  

Banding is an option, too.  We were given a young doe with horns a couple of weeks ago.  We really don't like our goats to have horns because of the horror stories we've read what they can do, whether by accident or on purpose.  So,  I banded her horns.   I thought it'd take several weeks for them to fall off, but one fell off after a week and the other fell off in about two weeks.  I see your doe's horns are larger so I'd think it'd take a bit longer for them to fall off, but maybe not.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Apr 26, 2013)

Pioneer Chicken said:
			
		

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Bandaging? What is that? That may be an option if we cant keep her from being such a brat.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Apr 26, 2013)

So...The last post we put on her horns she broke...
So, now he has a hunk of wood stuck to her head...
Is there anything else I can do that wont make our neighbors question how we treat our animals? I mean, she does look rather silly...


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## animalmom (Apr 26, 2013)

Oh I don't know... maybe put some plastic fruit around her horns and she'd look like Carmen Miranda?


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## Southern by choice (Apr 26, 2013)

animalmom said:
			
		

> Oh I don't know... maybe put some plastic fruit around her horns and she'd look like Carmen Miranda?


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## BlueMoonFarms (Apr 26, 2013)

animalmom said:
			
		

> Oh I don't know... maybe put some plastic fruit around her horns and she'd look like Carmen Miranda?


Omg she would XD 
I would totally make my neighbors worried about my sanity if i did though XD


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## promiseacres (Apr 26, 2013)




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## Pioneer Chicken (Apr 27, 2013)

BlueMoonFarms said:
			
		

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Banding is putting a band on the base of each horn.  You typically use c-bands (those used for castrating young buck kids); although, your doe has bigger horns, so you might need to get bigger bands for her.  What it does is apply pressure on the horns till they fall off.  It may not help her stop being bratty, but it will help you so you don't have to constantly worry about her jabbing you or not.  There is one site that was very helpful if you're interested in me sending it to you.  I hope I explained that well!


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## bonbean01 (Apr 27, 2013)

Personally, I like the plastic fruit idea


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## BlueMoonFarms (Apr 27, 2013)

Well...My bratty goat decided that since the wood would not break, she would find the weakest point in the fence that she has never ever pestered before, and push it until either it or the wood on her horns broke...She busted the fence and sliced open her neck and sides.
I do not see her staying very long if we can not get her under control.
We patched up and reinforced the fence so she cant get out again, cleaned her sorry butt up and put her back outside. Shes still trying to get to the other side of the fence like a brat, and shes learned that the hunk of wood is an excellent scratching stick. So now I have a partly lame, cut up, and bratty goat...


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## Egg_Newton (May 2, 2013)

I have a doe who hasa serious attitude. She gets really mad when I feel her belly or udder and rears up like she wants to headbutt me, snorts. I don't want to be to rough with her because she's expecting. I've been pushing her back down on all fours and telling her no. I hope it's just the pregancy hormones...


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## Mamaboid (May 8, 2013)

One of our does figured out that if she stuck her head through the fence and 'got it stuck' we would come running to 'help' her out.  Sooo she started putting her head through the fence every time we would go where she could see us.  I hardened my heart, walked over a bit closer where she could absolutely know that I saw her, and stood there.  25 minutes later, she finally got her head out of the fence by herself, I turned and walked away, and she hasn't done it since.....Dumb animals my butt.


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## Moonshine (Jul 7, 2013)

Wow this was truly entertaining! I hate to laugh at someone with such a headache but I just can't help myself! I have been having problems with my brats and thought I'd look for ideas on how others handle their brats. Nutmeg with the neon yellow duct tape was to much for me to control my outburst of laughter! Whatever came of the brat? Did you send her on her way or did she correct her attitude?


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## BlueMoonFarms (Jul 7, 2013)

We still have my big brat, and now we get the brightest and most unusual ducktape ever to keep things entertaining.
The second the ducktape is removed however shes right back stuck int he fence...





Fire works for the fourth of July.




Hippy peace signs for peace day.




The purple duck tape that she had on before her bath...




Then of course her day of freedom when she had her bath. Though she was not pleased because the water was very cold...




A better picture of her purple ducktape.
And now we are on silver. Im looking for some neon pink but so far im out of luck.
I did however find white and more peace duck tape 
We also got some PVC pipe to make her look much more presentable 
She still bothers everyone who sees her, and my neighbors now think im nuts, but thats ok! Nutmeg is doing much much better, and is so much easier to live with now.
A few good pins and she no longer challenges me, or goes after the other goats, so shes behaving!


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## Pearce Pastures (Jul 7, 2013)

NICE!


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## Fluffygal (Jul 7, 2013)

She is a fashionista! 

Love all the different colors of duct tape.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Jul 7, 2013)

And we just found glow in the dark, bright PINK ducktape! 
Nutmeg is going to be stylish even in the dark! And out Great Pyrenees Trinity will never loose her.


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## Moonshine (Jul 7, 2013)

Oh that's good news! I'm going to try these techniques on my bratty goat! I love the duct tape! Its hilarious!! Thanks for the update. I'm glad she's doing better.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jul 7, 2013)

You are flippin cracking me up here.    Glow in the dark duct tape!


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## BlueMoonFarms (Jul 7, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> You are flippin cracking me up here.    Glow in the dark duct tape!


Its a good way to turn a bad situation into an amusing one!


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## jodief100 (Jul 7, 2013)

I thought my goats were naughty.  Glad to see I am not the only one with mischievous goats.  How often do you change the duct tape?  My husband swears I deliberately find the worst behaved goats and buy them.  So how much do you want for her?


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## SheepGirl (Jul 7, 2013)

Staples has a HUGE selection of duct tape


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## BlueMoonFarms (Jul 7, 2013)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> Staples has a HUGE selection of duct tape


Oooh!!! I never thought of staples!!! Thanks!


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## JanetM (Jul 8, 2013)

BlueMoonFarms said:
			
		

> A few good pins and she no longer challenges me, or goes after the other goats, so shes behaving!


Im glad your Nutmeg is doing better. 

Did you actually pin her for going after the other goats too for just for challenging you? Just curious how/why she stopped going after the other goats.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Jul 8, 2013)

JanetM said:
			
		

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Normal pecking order behaviour I allowed.
A butt here and there was fine, however Nutmeg would guard the hay and bully everyone out of there food, or keep them away from the shelter when it was raining.
So, when ever she started being "to much" I would yell knock it off, wait and see if she would, and if not go out and pin her and make her knock it off.
Then if she began chasing anyone down, i would go out and stop that as well.
She now knows to listen to the "knock it off Nutmeg!" or else she will get pinned.
So far she has been behaving and been very respectful of the other goats, me, and everyone who enters the pen. She tried to challenge one of my friends, and I shrugged at them and said, "Want to learn how to pin a goat?"
After that she no longer challenges ANYONE; she appears to have learned that anything with two legs WILL and CAN pin her and put back in her place.
Once the other goats realized that she was not head boss they settled into a nice little order, Nutmeg is still on top, but they know shes not THE top hehe


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## autumnprairie (Jul 11, 2013)

I love the story. I have had two to do the I'm stuck. The first one was a buck and we ate him and the second one is Priscilla and most of the time I ignore her and she gets unstuck herself. She knows if it is self inflicted she will get laughed at then left to figure it out. I swear goats want to see how much you will do for them and if you will come running for every scream and cry


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## BlueMoonFarms (Jul 11, 2013)

autumnprairie said:
			
		

> I love the story. I have had two to do the I'm stuck. The first one was a buck and we ate him and the second one is Priscilla and most of the time I ignore her and she gets unstuck herself. She knows if it is self inflicted she will get laughed at then left to figure it out. I swear goats want to see how much you will do for them and if you will come running for every scream and cry


I wish Nutmeg was that clever. When shes stuck her idea of getting free is forward motion. She had busted the gate, let the other goats free many times, broken the fence, and ripped out a solid ceder post....
Shes been stuck in the fence all night before also, we almost lost her during the winter because she got stuck after out last check, and when came out the next morning she was buried in snow with ice hanging off her.
Shes a...um...yeah...Bratty goat.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Jul 11, 2013)

Hmm...
Zebra stripes, or hot pink?...How about both!
I think Nutmeg pulls it off quite nicely.


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## animalmom (Jul 11, 2013)

She is stylin' with that hot pink!


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## Moonshine (Jul 11, 2013)

I love it! Just curious though, why don't you cut her horns off?


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## BlueMoonFarms (Jul 11, 2013)

Moonshine said:
			
		

> I love it! Just curious though, why don't you cut her horns off?


I thought you couldn't at  her age?
And my vet is expensive X_X very expensive...


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## madcow (Jul 11, 2013)

BlueMoonFarms said:
			
		

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Right, cutting off horns has to be done by a vet if they are horns this size, and it's very risky due to the blood loss.  The horns are a portion of the skull and have a blood supply like fingernails do, but greater.  I know you can trim or file them slightly to get rid of sharpness or points, but not much, and a little at a time.


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## Moonshine (Jul 11, 2013)

People do it around here. The guy I got my Pygmy from had cut one of his horns himself. He left about an inch. I don't see why you couldn't just put iodine on them like a sore. If it just bleeds like a fingernail then that's not much. I've heard they are like fingernails. Idk just do your research.


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## AshleyFishy (Jul 11, 2013)

You can band horns at any age and they just fall off.


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## Moonshine (Jul 11, 2013)

I just read about it in storeys guide and banding is more inhumane than using a wire. You run the risk of infection with either of the choices. If you decide to go though with it I would use the wire and you'll need some stop bleeding dust and something for the pain. He said it was like a zing of pain but if you band then there is a chance of the goat going to get stuck in the fence again and break her horn off. Every time the horn moves (if its not completely broken off) there will be a zing of pain. Also, with banding you will need to get close to the base (according to storeys guide) and the band can slip upward. Not staying in the same place will not do you any good. Like I said previously, if it were my bratty goat, I would cut her horns. They are likely to grow back but once you cut them you can prolly keep them filed down. The guy that had cut his goats horns said he used some kind of cutting tool or sheer. He had cut them they day before and the goat was doing fine. You could see some bloody places in the horns. You might just keep it doctored and maybe bandaged until it was healed good. Be sure to do your research though and keep us informed!


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## Pearce Pastures (Jul 12, 2013)

Not a Story fan here---same book also recommends drowning bucklings as a humane way to get rid of them.

With banding and sawing, there is going to be some discomfort.  How much, we really can't well judge.  And with both, the horns are likely going to grow back unless you really get into the horn base---hard to do with a band and it will bleed with a saw (how much will vary from one goat to another but it can be quite a lot and you may even need bandaging and have to keep a watch for infection).

And really, if the taped bar is doing well, I would leave the horns be.


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## Moonshine (Jul 12, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> Not a Story fan here---same book also recommends drowning bucklings as a humane way to get rid of them.
> 
> With banding and sawing, there is going to be some discomfort.  How much, we really can't well judge.  And with both, the horns are likely going to grow back unless you really get into the horn base---hard to do with a band and it will bleed with a saw (how much will vary from one goat to another but it can be quite a lot and you may even need bandaging and have to keep a watch for infection).
> 
> And really, if the taped bar is doing well, I would leave the horns be.


Well dang. I would love to know what some suggested reading is because I want to learn all I can and I reference the material when I handle my goats.


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## AshleyFishy (Jul 12, 2013)

I've done the banding several times before. They feel discomfort for about a day then nothing. You put duct tape over the band and it will not slip up. They have never grown back. Never had any infections or bleeding either. No idea who Story is... 

I know a vet that uses the saw method, they can tend to bleed depending on a variety of factors. That one I do suggest doing with a local anesthetic.

I agree about the taped bar, if it is working then go with it.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Aug 7, 2013)

I am very sad to say....Nutmeg broke free of her PVC pipe sometime last night or early this morning, and she got stuck in the fence again...only this time she strangled herself in it...
We went out to feed everyone and found her


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## bonbean01 (Aug 7, 2013)

So sorry!!!


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## AshleyFishy (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm so sorry.  she did it to herself though hon. You tried to stop her from being a danger to herself.


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## Pearce Pastures (Aug 7, 2013)

Oh my goodness, I am so sad and sorry for you.  I fully expected to open this and see another pic of her colorful duct tape.  So very sorry


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## BlueMoonFarms (Aug 7, 2013)

I used to think dis budding was unnecessary, but Nutmeg has proven otherwise. 
Goats with horns can not only be a danger to people, but a danger to themselves.
We will never own a goat with horns ever again if we can help it....


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