# HELP!!!!  I think Spice is in labor!



## parjackson (Jul 26, 2009)

Hi All!

I think this is it...finally! 

I glanced out the window and saw her licking out 8 week old pot belly piglets, whom she normally hates (typical behavior is butting them).  She is also talking a lot.  She squatted down and "peed" gloppy brownish-yellow stuff, which has me concerned.  Is this normal?  How long does the licking, talking stage last before arrival of baby/babies?  I'm trying to stay calm, but I'm scared to death!  I wish I could bring the computer to the barn and ask questions and look up info as I need to!

Say a prayer, please!

Thanks!


She did the glurpy-gross pee thing again about 15 minutes ago (20 min after first one)


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## Griffin's Ark (Jul 26, 2009)

If Spice is normally sized for her breed don't worry.  She'll do it all on her own.  Of course me saying not to worry is quite funny.  I do it every time and they still never let me do anything.  Check her udder and see if it is really tight and then feel either side of her tail and see if those areas are mushy.  When she has the kid make sure she starts cleaning it shortly after or you may have to do it.  Make sure the mouth and nose are clear and the kid should be talking quite quickly.  Usually within 30 minutes they are eating but not always.  Watch until the kid eats and Momma passes the after birth.  AND TAKE PICTURES!!

\

Chris


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## parjackson (Jul 26, 2009)

OK, here are some pics I tried to take of her (gross) discharge to see if it is in the "normal" yes, the baby is coming category, or if it is in the call the vet category.  





















Close up of glop






Is this the real thing?  I don't want to be sitting out in the barn for the next three days if this is just a getting close but not imminent phase.

Thanks!


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## lilhill (Jul 26, 2009)

I've never had one do that much unless it's the real thing.  Good luck!


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## Roll farms (Jul 26, 2009)

Are you seeing any contractions?  That's usually my for-sure sign...if she stops and acts like she's thinking hard about something, w/ or w/out back arches or obvious pain, at regular intervals.  Some are just bigger drama queens than others.  Good luck!


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## helmstead (Jul 26, 2009)

Yup, that's the amber goo!    Babies soon!


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## parjackson (Jul 26, 2009)

Nothing yet...thanks for the positive goo clarification!  She keeps having contractions (at least I think they qualify as contractions), sometimes "squatting" sometimes standing quietly and "thinking" through them.  She hasn't started pushing with the classic bent tail indicating labor.  I hope that stage starts soon becasue I'm sure she's getting tired out (I know I am and all I'm doing is watching her!).

Can I offer her some water with molasses during labor to perk her up a bit, or should she not drink until after delivery?  I'm giving her a little break right now...turned the lights off in the barn to try to clear out some of the flies/bugs.  I'll have to remember to shut the barn doors when I go back in (very soon!)   I'm getting eaten alive out there!  

Hopefully my next posting will include photos of beautiful, healthy goatie baby(ies)!

Thanks, everybody!


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## Mini-M Ranch (Jul 26, 2009)




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## parjackson (Jul 26, 2009)

OK, how long is this going to take?  I'm really starting to get concerned because she hasn't gotten to any serious pushing yet.  Any time frames for a first time goat pregnancy?


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## bheila (Jul 27, 2009)




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## username taken (Jul 27, 2009)

how long has this doe been discharging amber goop and squatting? 

my gut feeling is she is taking too long, and needs to have an internal exam NOW


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## lilhill (Jul 27, 2009)

username taken said:
			
		

> how long has this doe been discharging amber goop and squatting?
> 
> my gut feeling is she is taking too long, and needs to have an internal exam NOW


I agree.  It should not be taking this long for her to have those babies.


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## parjackson (Jul 27, 2009)

I tried to do the internal, but couldn't more than 2 fingers inside.  Is she just dilating slowly?  She started discharging amber goo and squatting at about 4 pm yesterday afternoon.  

I'm trying to get a hold of the vet a friend recommended.


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## parjackson (Jul 27, 2009)

We lost both Spice and the baby.  

The vet came out and was doing an internal on her.  He said that the kid was gone (he didn't know if she was delivering prematurely or if it had died a while ago) and Spice was only dialated to about 2 cm so he was trying to stretch her little by little.  Spice was handling it like a trooper.  The dr. gave her a little break and then started up again.  I was holding on to her, singing, "Jesus Loves Me".  She suddenly stopped breathing.  The dr. tried to do mouth to mouth on her, but she didn't respond.  He said that she looked great and that he suspected that she might have had a heart abnormality that caused her to die under severe stress.  He said that calling earlier probably wouldn't have helped.  

This is going to be a rough day.

I haven't told our five children yet.  We all adored her.


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## helmstead (Jul 27, 2009)

I am SO sorry for your losses!  How tragic!  <hugs>


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 27, 2009)




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## ksalvagno (Jul 27, 2009)

I am so sorry to hear that. It is always hard to lose an animal that feels like part of the family. Please know that you did your best and there was nothing you could have done. Spice looked like she was very loved and well taken care of.


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## username taken (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm sorry 

For future reference, a doe should not go more than 2 - 4 hrs of squatting and gooping without making some sort of progress. If no progress has been made by this time, ie. she hasnt moved to heavy pushing, assistance is needed. 

Once the doe starts pushing, progress should be made every half hour - ie. something new should happen every half hour, a bag appear, a foot appear, a nose appear, a baby born, another baby born, a placenta born etc. If the progress stops, assistance is needed.


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## m.holloway (Jul 27, 2009)

to all of you. Sorry to hear that you lost both.


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## parjackson (Jul 27, 2009)

username taken said:
			
		

> I'm sorry
> 
> For future reference, a doe should not go more than 2 - 4 hrs of squatting and gooping without making some sort of progress. If no progress has been made by this time, ie. she hasnt moved to heavy pushing, assistance is needed.
> 
> Once the doe starts pushing, progress should be made every half hour - ie. something new should happen every half hour, a bag appear, a foot appear, a nose appear, a baby born, another baby born, a placenta born etc. If the progress stops, assistance is needed.


I only waited to call because one of the goat books written by a well-known"expert" said that it can take first timers 12 hours in the first stage of labor.  Other places say 2 hours.  AWhat is a new goat person supposed to do?  What advice do you listen to?

My gut told me something wasn't right, but my brain said, "Give her time" because she wasn't showing any signs of stress.  She was nibbling at her hay, wandering around, being friendly.  I asked the doctor if it would have had a different outcome if I had called sooner, and he said, "Most likely not."  He believed the kid had been gone for quite a while (days, weeks) as he couldn't feel any teeth when he was feeling around inside. He repeatedly told me that he believed she had a bad heart and that she would have died anyhow when the time for serious pushing was needed.


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## lilhill (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm so sorry for your loss.


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## cmjust0 (Jul 27, 2009)

parjackson said:
			
		

> My gut told me something wasn't right, but my brain said, "Give her time" because she wasn't showing any signs of stress.  She was nibbling at her hay, wandering around, being friendly.  I asked the doctor if it would have had a different outcome if I had called sooner, and he said, "Most likely not."


First of all, let me just say that I'm really, really sorry to hear this..  We've only had one close call with a birth, and it's really difficult to know when to make that phone call..

For what it's worth, I think I agree with your vet..  If she were to have been dropping and rising and straining and head-pressing and crying out for all that time, it would be different...but if she was up, nibbling at hay, walking around, being friendly...I probably wouldn't have called the vet either.  

Again...I'm just really, really sorry she was lost.  Don't beat yourself up.


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## bheila (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm so sorry for you loss.  It's natures cruel way of reminding us how much we love and adore our animals


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## big brown horse (Jul 27, 2009)

Sorry for your loss too.  Well if it makes you feel any bit better, I learned something from your loss...and probably others have too.

Again, sorry.


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## Mini-M Ranch (Jul 27, 2009)

Oh, I am SO sorry.  She lived a good life and was loved and will be missed.  If those things can be said of us when we pass, then we have lived well.


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## goat lady (Jul 27, 2009)

Sorry for your loss


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## mully (Jul 27, 2009)

Very sorry you lost her...animals take up a big space in our hearts so I know how you feel and it is never easy. God Bless !!


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## username taken (Jul 27, 2009)

parjackson said:
			
		

> username taken said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 2 hrs is a much better rule to follow than 12 hrs. I've never had a maiden go for 12 hrs. 

I know it can be difficult and confusing to start with; hang in there. 

To be honest you have just experienced something that a lot of big goat farms dont experience for year and years; it is not a very common occurrance. Most does who need assistance are at the yelling and pushing and screaming stage with nothing happening. Now its very rare but it does happen, that one gets to the very early stage like you described, and has trouble. But because they are not showing signs of distress, people dont assist until it is too late. 

Trust me - you are not the only person who has had this happen. Almost every large breeder I know has lost a doe this way, so please dont beat yourself up about it. 

I had this same thing happen last year to my girl - never progressed from early labour to the pushing stage. Well, the only reason I interfered was because I had to get to a show and I was already 3 hrs late - so I did an internal intending to hurry things up and pull the kids out so I knew everything was okay and I could leave. Well the kids were a tangled mess and she ended up needing a caesar. But the thing was, if I hadnt been going to a show that day, I wouldnt have interfered, I would have left her for longer and no doubt I would have lost the kids and possibly the doe.


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