# Wesson(Neosporosis) So Stubborn! Coyote wounds now!



## dejavoodoo114 (Jul 31, 2016)

We first noticed Wesson's limp almost 2 weeks ago. I called a friend of mine who goes to school with me and who has worked for years as a vet tech. She came out and said it didn't look like hip displasia that it looked more like a strain or arthritis. She said to watch him for a week then she came out again. It has not gotten better and he has gotten more comfortable with her and was more willing to whine when hurting. We suspect he was hit by a car and are taking him to the vet for xrays etc on Monday (tomorrow). I wanted to check on here though if you guys have ever seen an injury like this?

I am having a hard time trying to upload the videos so I am going to try and include the url in the text.

https://www.facebook.com/ali.davis.336/videos/pcb.1221124127918361/1221123561251751/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/ali.davis.336/videos/pcb.1221124127918361/1221123564585084/?type=3&theater


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## TAH (Jul 31, 2016)

Poor boy
@Southern by choice @babsbag @OneFineAcre


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 31, 2016)

I think an x-ray would be a good idea


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## Southern by choice (Jul 31, 2016)

dejavoodoo114 said:


> looked more like a strain or arthritis


 


dejavoodoo114 said:


> She said to watch him for a week then she came out again. It has not gotten better and he has gotten more comfortable with her and was more willing to whine when hurting.



If it was a strain OR arthritis it still should have been checked immediately. Confinement, rest and certain Rx are for treating strains. Arthritis is also treatable for discomfort and pain relief.
*This was irresponsible of any tech to suggest this.* 
A* good tech *would immediately tell you to take the dog to a vet.


Quite possible a spinal injury and or hip injury.


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## Southern by choice (Jul 31, 2016)

Please no more pulling his legs to get him to lie down. You are causing pain and possibly more injury. He should have limited activity right now.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 31, 2016)

Poor baby! That is awful 

Glad you are taking him in to the vet!


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## Latestarter (Jul 31, 2016)

Awwww... poor fella! That's not a strain, that's damaged somehow. He should have seen a vet within a couple of days of you noticing this with no improvement. That leg isn't moving naturally. I hope he'll be OK. Please let us know how it goes.


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## frustratedearthmother (Jul 31, 2016)

Why do I think that hip looks dislocated?  Do you notice in one part of the video that there is a 'lump' on the top of that hip and the way he is swinging that leg ... I dunno...  Surely he wouldn't be bearing weight on it if it is dislocated? 

Really hope I'm imagining that and it's really not that bad?  Surely the tech would have noticed that???


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jul 31, 2016)

Whoa whoa whoa. There was a lot of crazy going on at my house while I was trying to post this. Let me try to explain. Our local vets are terrible and Wesson get beyond sick when in a car so I can't take him to either of the better vets each an hour away. Trust me no medicine works on him and we already paid over $1500 for surgery fixing what his being car sick caused. In light of this, the thought of taking him to a mediocre at best vet only interested in money was not appealing unless necessary. Besides, I have never even met the real vet, only the techs, though I know the vet was the one who had to have done the surgery... So I called the vet tech. She examined him thoroughly, at that time, last week, I assure you it was not dislocated, we are both studying to be vets, she knows companions animals and I know livestock. We are both familiar with how an animals body is put together. 
   That being said, she and I examined him last week. No spinal issues at all, not the case with my very old pet dog, and she was testing for hip dysplasia. He made no signs of discomfort from the test. So she was checking his joints, one small lump on the inside of the hip across a muscle. We both felt it, thought it was a strain. She warned me that I needed to check him without her because dogs have a bad habit of getting tough and not showing pain when they go to the vet and Wesson didn't know her that well. So we waited 4 days before she came back out. When she came back out he was worse in different ways. She spent a lot of her time watching him walk from inside and said he needed xrays. She noted, and I agree, is leg/hip was worse and she wondered if he hadn't been hit either after being injured or hit a second time. 

  Knowing that he was already acting "tough" for her I wanted video to take to my lazy vet and asked my daughter to help. She still doesn't seem to understand that she needs to stop doing what she is doing if the dog is in pain. She got another lecture regarding that after that video... Teenagers...  


   AAANNNDDD so, I tried to look for videos of hip dysplasia and nothing I found looked like this. I am taking him for xrays tomorrow and hopefully something is actually done or seen by this vet other than putting me in debt. Noticed today his front leg is starting to act strange. There is no swelling in any of his joints. Today was the first time he actually whined in pain. Ironic that we had decided yesterday to take him in Monday.

   Next step is building a fence across our extra driveway so that neighbors can no longer use our driveway to get to their other houses and property. I am angry.


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## babsbag (Jul 31, 2016)

It almost looks like it is both back legs, almost a swagger. I too wonder if it is a spinal injury.


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## sadieml (Jul 31, 2016)

It looks kind of like a pelvic problem to me.  He is definitely not bearing his weight normally.  FEM, I have seen dogs walk on a dislocation before, especially if they feel they are pleasing someone.  I agree with rest, rest, and more rest, and get that x-ray 1st thing Monday.  I hope this is going to heal well.  Bless his great big Pyr heart.  He really is in pain.


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## frustratedearthmother (Jul 31, 2016)

Hoping for the best!


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## Latestarter (Jul 31, 2016)

That it's nothing serious and that he's back to his big old lovable self real fast.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jul 31, 2016)

Me too!!! He is the best animal on this farm! If we start losing chickens or something chews on the goats ears we are always wondering what is going on. Then we start looking at investing in cameras etc... Until we find the remains of the culprit. All thanks to this boy Wesson. His "brother" Smith is good for watching out for the babies and nothing else. Wesson is our true LGD. That is why we were concerned. I only wish I could take him all the way to Knoxville to the UT clinic there. At least I would know they were paying attention and properly diagnosing him!


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 1, 2016)

Maybe you could get one of the 'mediocre' vets to give him something to help him relax on a trip to a better vet!


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## sadieml (Aug 1, 2016)

btw, @dejavoodoo114 - I'm lovin those names!  Smith and Wesson!!!   

We have a brindled pit bull named Kartoffel - German for potato!  DH thought he looked like a fresh-dug potato, now he's a couch potato! AND a potato head...such a silly monkey!  I love him loads, but sometimes I think his potato-brain is fried.  ...and the little one, she's a riot!  She escaped from people who were using her as bait to teach pit fighting.  She nearly died of malnutrition when we got her, and her growth was permanently stunted, so she looks like a 6 month pup, even though she's 4 1/2.  She hates fighting and will try to take down anyone who raises his voice (me included!).  She has stopped MANY cat fights around here, too.  She doesn't care who starts it, when she says STOP, she means NOW!  What a cutie!  She is such a love-bug, too.  You would never know she was so abused.  She survived by eating feces.  I wish laws were more strict and people like that could experience a small part of what they do to these poor animals.  Caring for the animals was man's first job, and yet there are those who see no wrong in abusing them!  All they see is GREEN.  Sorry.  Didn't mean to get wound-up.  I do hope you're able to find out what's wrong with Wesson.  Maybe those x-rays today gave some answers?


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 1, 2016)

Wesson hugging my daughter while getting blood drawn. He loves hugs but he usually hugs while standing not sitting lol.

We just got back from the vet and they did not take xrays. They examined him and found no joint issues at all. They think it is more likely a muscle disease or nervous system. They are checking into it. I should get the blood results tomorrow.

I really can't seem to get pictures or anything on here. Here is this url
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1221858621178245&set=p.1221858621178245&type=3&theater


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 1, 2016)

Wish they had a better answer for you.  Has anyone mentioned Wobbler Syndrome?


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## sadieml (Aug 1, 2016)

FEM, does Wobbler's cause pain?  I didn't think it was painful.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 1, 2016)

There are a few things she is looking at that may be one of them. The problem with Wobbler's and many others I have looked up have spinal chord injuries, like a slipped disk, all say there would be neck or back pain and he doesn't have any. I think she is looking more in the area of Degenerative Myelopothy. There are a few diseases/causes for symptoms like this. She is ruling out easier diseases with the blood tests. But if she can't find an answer there she said an MRI would most likely be the next step. But....


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## Latestarter (Aug 1, 2016)

Ouch.... $$$  What a big love bug! So sorry you're having to deal with this. Dogs are just so special... like one of our kids   Really hope you can get it figured out and he can have a happy life.


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## sadieml (Aug 1, 2016)

I will definitely be praying for Wesson.  My DH has Multiple Sclerosis, so we know all about degenerative myelopathy.


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 1, 2016)

sadieml said:


> FEM, does Wobbler's cause pain? I didn't think it was painful.


I'm not extremely familiar with it - but Google has some good info along with YouTube...


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 1, 2016)

Me too but I am not sure what to do if it comes down to an MRI. I have 3 children in a college prep school... That's why we make our own bread, goats = milk and cheese and meat, pigs = meat, chickens = eggs and meat... Because with the property we have we don't have to supplement grain we don't ever have to buy meat, I also can vegi's from the garden so we can spend that money on the kids' education. I really hope she can figure out what is going on from the blood tests. I hope even more that it is something that can be fixed. We need Wesson and don't want to try and go through another puppy right now. Especially with our current cash flow problems.


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## sadieml (Aug 1, 2016)

Okay.  I'm a REAL dope.  Of course, if Wobbler's can be caused by slipped or herniated cervical discs, there is bound to be pain.  Sometimes, apparently, it is genetic (primarily with Great Danes) and the slower progression may lead to less pain, but if there is pinching of discs involved, there is certainly pain.  In my experience, our beloved canines do their level best not to worry us when they're in pain, so if Wesson is letting you know he's hurting, it can't be good.  Our precious Rottweiler, Wrotan Gunnar, died from cancer Feb 14, 2012, and never once cried in pain until his final hours.  I laid on the floor beside him and cuddled him like a baby while giving him pain meds for his last few hours. I was so sorry that he had pain at all, but we did our best to ease his passing.  Unfortunately, so often with cancer (for people, too) the end is unbearably painful.  That's why they put patients on morphine drips, and sometimes you don't know if they died from the cancer or the morphine.


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 1, 2016)

dejavoodoo114 said:


> We need Wesson and don't want to try and go through another puppy right now. Especially with our current cash flow problems.


I'll be praying that this works out to be something that Father Time and Mother Nature can take care of.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 1, 2016)

It is not DM
DM doesn't present this way
I am very familiar with this as I have been in GSD's my whole life
Gsd's are DNA tested for this as it is a real problem
This isn't DM
What I do not understand unless I missed it somewhere as the storm took out my computer and I'm on a phone that I can't see

Standard of care by any vet would have been to give a cortisteroid injection and X Ray
Depending on spinal injury location not all affect neck

I sure hope you can get another consult
This is very sad

There are a lot of great vets out there but every once in awhile you just go whhaaat 

If he is difficult to transport remember there are over the counter things you can use that will relax but not sedate
Most vets that have clients whose dog doesn't travel well will suggest Dramamine or Benedryl and give you the dosage


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 1, 2016)

The vets have suggested both Dramamine and Benedryl and it still didn't work on him. She could find no sign of any spinal or joint issue. I'm glad to hear you don't think it is DM. She said she was looking at other diseases that are similar and if they are not them then it would likely be DM. No signs of arthritis or hip dysplasia. She did give NSAID. Waiting now until they get the results of the blood test tomorrow.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 2, 2016)

Blood work showed everything healthy except definite signs of muscle death. No infection etc. Vet is waiting for a consult from UT's neurologist.


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## Bunnylady (Aug 2, 2016)

Just a thought - probably not helpful, but what they hey. A friend's Lab dislocated a hip when he ran into a telephone pole guy wire one dark night. Their vet put it back, but months afterward, the Lab was still walking like your dog. An equine chiropractor saw him, and suggested doing some adjustments - which worked.


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 2, 2016)

dejavoodoo114 said:


> Blood work showed everything healthy except definite signs of muscle death. No infection etc. Vet is waiting for a consult from UT's neurologist.


Wow...hope he has some ideas!


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 5, 2016)

@dejavoodoo114 

Any news?


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 5, 2016)

The last thing she wanted to check was to see if it's coccidia. She prescribed clindamycin as the treatment was cheaper by far then the test. There has been no change however. I called today but did not get a call back. She said if that doesn't work is most likely auto immune. A muscle biopsy could narrow it down. Hopefully i will here from them on Monday. 

I'm not really sure i understand the cocci as an option unless cocci in dogs are far different than in goats.


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## Goat Whisperer (Aug 5, 2016)

So a fecal test would be more than treatment?


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 6, 2016)

Lol. Did I mention my lack of trust in this vet? Anyway, she wanted to do blood test to test for it. $130. Really wishing I had my centrifuge set up right now. Really wishing Wesson did not get so sick on long drives. On Monday I am considering calling UT. I may just not feed him or give him water for a while then take him there instead. Depends.


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## Latestarter (Aug 6, 2016)

I think depends are for the other end... justsayin...


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## Southern by choice (Aug 6, 2016)

dejavoodoo114 said:


> Lol. Did I mention my lack of trust in this vet? Anyway, she wanted to do blood test to test for it. $130. Really wishing I had my centrifuge set up right now. Really wishing Wesson did not get so sick on long drives. On Monday I am considering calling UT. I may just not feed him or give him water for a while then take him there instead. Depends.



I know it is a lot both on Wesson and the pocketbook but why waste another dime... get him to UT. 

On another note- I think it is funny you mention the centrifuge... my one vet is always telling me to get a centrifuge and I keep saying... uh no that is why I have you. 

If I ever get to build my barn the way I want and have my procedures room... maybe then...


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 6, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> On another note- I think it is funny you mention the centrifuge... my one vet is always telling me to get a centrifuge and I keep saying... uh no that is why I have you.
> 
> If I ever get to build my barn the way I want and have my procedures room... maybe then...



I found it online. Old as can be, solid as heck but with all the options I wanted for a decent price. It is a swinging centrifuge to make FEC's easier to do. But my house is kind of a mess. We will have an extra room soon and I plan on setting it up in there along with my school stuff. Not that helpful now. 

As far as Wesson goes, The only other contact I will have with the vet up here will be via the phone. Anything else will go through UT. 

Side note, he is in the backyard and kept pacing so we brought all the goats in from the pasture into the backyard. One of the goats got stung by a bee so Wesson spent the last two days eating/killing all the bees on that nest.....


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## Latestarter (Aug 6, 2016)

Now that's a guardian dog!


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 10, 2016)

I know! I have so many stories of him protecting our livestock. 

Now for an update. The cocci treatment had no affect. Vet wants to try steroid shot. She thinks it is an autoimmune disorder and said steroids can help symptoms of autoimmune. I am waiting for a call back from UT.


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 10, 2016)

Hope it works!


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## sadieml (Aug 10, 2016)

DH had a 5-day hospital stay w/IV steroids for his 1st bout of optic neuritis (MS induced), and 2 weeks of IV steroids at a local out-patient facility for his 2nd.  They (the steroids) really can help.  Hope it works for Wesson.

btw - I'm with @Southern by choice in wondering why the vet didn't start with a steroid/pain med injection.  That's what MedCare did for my sciatica.  I'm just sayin'...


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 12, 2016)

Oh I know, we have decided to take him to UT and have the referral appointment for early next week with the neurologist. Hopefully they will have something more helpful to offer. I will try and remember to update after. Feel free to bug me Tuesday!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 12, 2016)

Sometimes a shot of steroid is all it takes. 
Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason and so that is why that will be given... if it works great! When it doesn't then the specialist.

Often the neurologist will want to do MRI's etc and that bill adds up quick... 

Glad we have competent vets here. 

I am glad you are doing what you can for him.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 18, 2016)

UPDATE:
   So I took him to the Neurologist Tuesday. She said his case was bizarre. If everything was caused by one thing most likely a tumor in the spinal chord or slipped disk/pinched nerve in his cervical spine. But because everything was so strange she wanted to test for Everything. Since I am not made of money that was not an option. However, she was great with working through all the possibilities with me. We were able to mark off the list the ones we could not afford to treat (min for testing and treatments seemed to be 5K) and the ones with no treatment. 

   In the end we narrowed it down to 3 possibilities. 1 and 2 are toxoplasmosis and neurospora, they are both protozoa that infect the spinal chord and are picked up by eating infected animals (like the ones he kills and eats). The downside of these is that even IF the treatment destroys the bacteria there is, at BEST, a 50/50 chance he will regain his motor control. We are waiting on the results of these tests because that 50/50 was better than the other options so we are hoping... 

   3, Actually, that was as far as she went. She wanted the MRI to see if it was a slipped disk. I called my friend who is a dog trainer and told her what was going on. She has worked/trained a lot of agility dogs and suggested I take him to a chiropractor instead of the MRI. I was surprised but was able to find a chiropractor who was willing to work with him. He spent over 30 min checking and rechecking every single vertebrae and found 3 problem spots, 1 in the cervical spine and 2 in the lumbar region. On one of the ones in the lumbar region when he touched it Wesson's left rear leg collapsed. He adjusted him and there was a difference. His gate, watching from the back seemed more awkward, as in a judge would not be happy, but he was no longer falling to his right and was able to walk easier. 

   It was in no way a miracle cure but I took him back again today and will be watching closely to see how he does getting around after this treatment. Again it seemed a bit better but I will continue to watch and continue taking him to be adjusted. 

   Because of the odd symptoms the neurologist thought it may be multiple problems but was not quite willing to push that because it started all at once. Wouldn't it be wonderful if an antibacterial and chiropractic adjustments got him back into working order? I'm not going to get my hopes up but I am praying!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 18, 2016)




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## Alexz7272 (Aug 18, 2016)

I know a dog that slipped a disk and could not walk or relieve himself for a full day due to it. Took him to an animal chiropractor, did 3 treatments and he is* much* better now. The vert had wanted him to have surgery! I hope it keeps working for your pup!


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## sadieml (Aug 21, 2016)

I will be praying with you, also.  It does sound somewhat promising, even if he isn't 100%, hopefully the adjustments and meds will alleviate his discomfort.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 23, 2016)

OK, we have the confirmation from UT. Good news and bad news. The parasitology dept said they had never seen a dog So VERY positive for _Neospora caninum_. The good news is that we know what it is. The bad news is that he may never recover and that he may not even be able to live for long even with the medications, which we have already started. 

For those of you curious about Neosporosis... 

   It affects dogs but is carried by herbivores (mainly cattle) and though it doesn't damage them like it does dogs it can cause abortions and still births in cattle. FOR THOSE OF YOU FEEDING RAW DIETS!!! (We supplemented with raw plus what he caught himself... ) Most cattle carry this protazoa, eating the placenta of a cow who has this will give it to your dog, eating the raw meat from any herbivore, cattle, deer, etc, that is infected can give it to your dog. There is a case study I found where an owner had fed her dog hamburger and 2 days later Bam. Be careful. My vet suggested we cook everything we give them from now on. This is not something that will keep beef from ending up in the grocery store because we are supposed to cook it and it is not zoonotic (we can't get it).

   Some dogs can get it and it ends up chronic, which is better because it doesn't usually get to these symptoms. However, if a bitch has it chronically, having a litter will flare it up and she will likely pass it on to her puppies. When this happens the puppies usually end up acute (which is what Wesson is, ie bad). There is little hope for such puppies.

   Neosporosis is a degenerative muscle disease. It affects the nervous system and muscles causing atrophy, necrosis, partial paralysis etc. It will also affect their ability to swallow. This explains why we have had to feed him soft food since this started... That doesn't completely account for his weight loss, that is mainly because of the damaged muscles.. The muscle loss is why he keeps knocking his spine out of alignment. The chiropractor, which we will continue seeing, can help with keeping him in line while we see if we can get this taken care of and some muscle back on him. 

   The neurologist had said that if it were neospora that he may not recover. When I asked the chances she said she didn't know, maybe 50/50. From talking to PhD's and other vets, as well as my own research in the vet school library 50/50 is quite optimistic.  I am trying to get this written before my Organic class but it it devastating and I am sure I am forgetting some things. 

@Southern by choice , I was paying attention to your suggestions for a steroid shot I promise! I had decided to wait for the neurologist and when she didn't suggest it I didn't push it. I am glad because a steroid given to a dog with this would give the disease free reign... 

   I am going to try and figure out how to change the name of this posting so that others who may face this will have this information. I have learned a lot more than I have posted here so if any of you have other questions I will likely be able to answer them.


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## Bunnylady (Aug 23, 2016)

Question: This sounds vaguely similar to EPM in horses (a disease where a parasitic protozoan attacks nerves, resulting in a loss of coordination and wasting of muscles). Is my impression accurate? I have no idea how this sort of thing plays out in dogs, but I have dealt with a few horses that were diagnosed with EPM, and have seen what seem like complete recoveries. Maybe your dog will be so lucky, as well.


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 23, 2016)

I'm so sorry for this news.  Hope you can help him.  And, thanks for letting us know about this.


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## Latestarter (Aug 23, 2016)

What a terrible break for Wesson and your family.  50:50 still gives some hope/chance, though not as good as you'd like I'm sure. I hope the meds can help bring him back from this.


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## Hens and Roos (Aug 23, 2016)

sorry to hear of the news and  for you


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## Baymule (Aug 23, 2016)

You noted "for those that feed a raw meat diet", I don't, but I have a question for those that do. Does freezing the meat kill the _Neospora caninum _protozoa?

I am sorry about your dog. I hope the meds can help him have a better quality of life.


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 23, 2016)

Baymule said:


> I have a question for those that do. Does freezing the meat kill the _Neospora caninum _protozoa?



http://www.naturalholistic.com/handouts/neospora.htm

Found this - it's old info, but written by a veterinarian.


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## Baymule (Aug 23, 2016)

Thanks for the link!

What steps can be taken to eliminate or limit our pets’ exposure? I am still not convinced that a healthy, holistically cared for pet is the optimal candidate for contracting this parasite. In my discussions with the experts on Neospora, I was led to believe that the treatment of meat to inactivate Toxoplasmosis should also inactivate Neospora. *We know that cooking will do this, but it was also interesting to find out that freezing the meat for 24 hours should also kill the organism.* The parasitologists were less specific on the use of grapefruit seed extract or food grade hydrogen peroxide to treat the meat. I do, however, feel that this has been effective in dealing with Toxoplasmosis. I base this on the fact that I have never seen or even recall hearing of a case in an animal under good holistic care and being fed a treated, raw food diet. This is not to say it has not and cannot happen but I have yet to see a case.


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## Mini Horses (Aug 23, 2016)

https://effectivepetwellness.com/product/epm-standard-kit/

Holistic for EPM in horses.   May NOT be same protozoa in your dog but, they do have some support options for healing.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 23, 2016)

@frustratedearthmother  Thanks for that link! That was one of the other question I wanted to find out about regarding having to cook the meat. If freezing it kills the neospora that works for me. I was envisioning trying to fit the hind quarter of a deer (minus most of the meat) into the oven....

And that article was correct, neospora isn't new but it was "recently discovered" as being a separate issue that is more often being recognized as itself. (if that makes sense)

I stopped by my local vets to get a weight on him after seeing the chiropractor. Since this all started he has gained 1 lb. I will weigh him again next week and see if, between the treatment and the soft food we have been giving him we can get that weight up. My local vet said it was unlikely he would regain mobility but she will do more research on that. I found an article where in the UK out of 27 cases 10 survived. That is the most promising (only promising) one I have found so far. 

Anyway, if we can at least keep it from getting worse, and if I can build his muscle back up then I will still be happy. Even as messed up as he is he is still doing his job pretty well.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 23, 2016)

Oh, and the most common way they said to get Acute neospora is eating the placenta from infected cattle. OR goats... I am going to talk to my livestock vet to see if they can test my herd. They can get it from raw meat but the most common is the placenta. I don't want more dogs getting sick if my herd has this. My neighbor is pasturing cows on my property and has had over a dozen calves in the last 2 months... I know he has had issues with abortions and still births before so I am hoping my goats don't have this or having a dog that knows how to handle kidding season might not be all that relevant. I would have to separate them...


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## TAH (Aug 23, 2016)

Very glad I followed this thread silently because we have plan to start a raw meat for dogs so I will definitely have to make sure I check about this. 

I am sorry you have gone thru so much trouble


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## babsbag (Aug 24, 2016)

I am sorry you and your boy have to deal with this. Thank you for sharing...my dogs eat the goat placentas when they get a chance. Please let us know what your vet says about testing your herd.  I am praying that he recovers.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Aug 24, 2016)

I certainly will share that @babsbag


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## Beekissed (Aug 24, 2016)

Something that wouldn't hurt to try and doesn't cost much, is feeding some ginger root each day to see if it has any effect on these protozoa.  After reading up on them, it seems like they possibly could be halted or eliminated with a systemic antiparasitic like ginger.  Doesn't hurt to try and it certainly won't hurt the dog.  I know that sounds a little simplistic, but sometimes it's the simple things that the medical profession loves to overlook that has the greatest effect.  Ginger doesn't make anyone any money, so they aren't likely to recommend it.


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## Godsgrl (Aug 24, 2016)

Now and then lurker popping in to comment. What a sad outcome for your dog. I hope you are able to give him a good quality of life, good call with the chiropractor. When you explained what diagnosis was, it surprised me. Neosporosis sounds exactly like ALS-Lou Gehrig's Disease in humans. Very interesting. I wish you the best, and again, I'm sorry for what you are going through right now.


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## NH homesteader (Aug 24, 2016)

So sorry for you and your poor boy.  I'm glad you've shared it,  its not anything I had ever heard of and it's good to be aware.  I hope for the best for you!


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## Mini Horses (Aug 28, 2016)

Ask your vet to check out the EPM info as they have actually CURED horses and it MAY be something that can help your boy, even tho a dog.  These protozoa are often related enough that meds can cross on more than one species.  It is holistic.

Before EPM in horses was just a "death sentence" for all practical purposes.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Sep 12, 2016)

@Mini Horses  I did talk to the vet about the similarity between neospora and what causes EPM as well as a professor. They both suggested sticking with clyndamycin as it is proven to treat this protozoa and the two protozoa are different enough they do not seem to think it would be effective. 

Just to update you guys, a week and a half ago I took him in to be weighed and he was at 86lbs. I was thrilled. However, since then his food intake has decreased again. I will be weighing him again either Tuesday or Thursday. I also noticed about that time that he seemed to be in pain. It was very subtle but once I noticed it it was obvious. The vet prescribed rimadyl. Technically the neospora should not be causing pain. They think it might be muscle soreness from the neospora dying and perhaps his muscles healing. 

Since we started him on the NSAID he has become very difficult. It is now even harder to restrict his movement. He still moves terribly but he just runs/hops/(indescribable) anyway. We are considering letting the 15 day supply of pain meds run out then seeing what kind of a change there is. Perhaps he is genuinely feeling better and it doesn't have anything to do with the NSAID. It could take up to 6 weeks on Clindamycin for there to be results though, as stated previously, results would have normally shown up within the first week or two. As I understand it they do not continue the prescription after that point as it either has eliminated the neospora or it will not. The big question is whether he can heal.


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## Latestarter (Sep 12, 2016)

What a really tough situation to have to deal with. I feel for you and really hope he can pull through for you. Thanks for the update.


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## Mini Horses (Sep 12, 2016)

Wishing for the VERY BEST outcome for both of you.   I'm praying for him to pull thru and heal to be able to live a comfortable, long life!


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## babsbag (Sep 12, 2016)

Thank you for the update. I am hoping and praying that he can come through this, poor boy. I know how hard it must be for you to watch him if he is in pain, that has to hurt your heart. Hopefully it is healing taking place and it will be worth it in the end.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 12, 2016)

Hoping for the best!


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## dejavoodoo114 (Sep 14, 2016)

I brought him to the vet last night to be weighed and he lost 4 lbs putting him at 82 lbs.  Despite what we can do to try and get him to eat more he is eating less. We already make it mush so he can eat it easily but he still eats a bit then stops. We add our leftovers (we actually make extra food so there are leftovers) or eggs or meat, we tried teriyaki (he liked that for a bit) then bbq sauce but no matter what we put in he doesn't eat more than a 1/4 cup or so morning and evening. 

The pig, Moo Shu, is always trying to steal his food and he will not allow it. We thought perhaps this had something to do with it so we tried feeding him separately. When he was separated he would not eat at all. It seems Moo Shu's pigginess is forcing him to eat at least some... He feels better with the pain meds but has not increased feed intake at all. The vet did not seem surprised and just said to let her know if things change. I will continue to feed him as much as possible and watch him and weigh him.

FYI, because of this we decided to bring our purchase of another LGD pup forward from Spring to this Fall. We are hoping that Wesson can help us train her as we had originally planned. One more reason for us to need/want him to get better. We thought we would have him with the pup for at least 2 years to aid in training. 

Another side note, my useful for nothing but nannying Pyr has lost weight, in a good way, and has become far more active. The worse Wesson gets the better Smith seems to. I always knew that he was the "backup" but I am glad to see him more active. Hopefully that activity is guarding not running all over the hills and getting into trouble. Smith has been eating more as well (and asking for seconds) which must be due to his highly unusual activities.... We were losing chickens at the barn since we locked Wesson in the pasture but Smith now seems very comfortable down there... Perhaps that is where he is disappearing too. I wish I had a clue. With Smith and Wesson watching over the animals I have allowed myself to get very busy. Now without Wesson I am working even harder. It would be nice if Smith steps up at least until the new pup can do her job and give Wesson a break.

So all in all concerning, confusing, and frustrating. Mr. Awesome is deteriorating, Mr. Rug is improving, and new pup training just for spice! How does anyone with livestock live without LGD's?????


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## Latestarter (Sep 14, 2016)

Love your pig's name! Too awesome. Sorry that Wesson isn't getting better. Glad to hear that Smith may be picking up his slack. Hope you luck into a real keeper of a replacement pup.


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## sadieml (Sep 17, 2016)

I am still praying for Wesson, and am glad you finally have a diagnosis.  When DH first got sick, the worst part was not knowing what it was.  MS is a lousy disease, but as diagnoses go it could have been sooo much worse.  MS is hardly ever fatal anymore, so overall it was a much better diagnosis than we expected.  If your results with traditional treatment are not what you hope for, you can always try the EPM treatment or some ginger.  You might want to give ginger anyway, since it could keep him healthier overall.  You said you've tried lots of flavor enhancers, try bbq sauce with ginger added, or Arby's sauce--ginger is their secret!  Anyway, thanks for keeping us abreast of all the developments, and our prayers and best thoughts are still coming your way.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Oct 1, 2016)

After burning myself multiple times trying to make cheese alone without my handy dandy cheese tools (kids put them somewhere????) and my pot that was for deviled eggs catching fire (yes the pot itself caught fire!) I decided I needed a break and a glass of wine. So I will update you with what was decided last week. 

   I went back to the neurologist for a refill of the clindamycin and he came out to talk to me. He was very concerned that Wesson has shown no improvement at all and has decided to start him on a different antibiotic. At the same time he wants to put him on steroids instead of the NSAID. The NSAID had to be stopped for 4 days before he could start the steroids and during that 4 days I felt like a truly terrible and selfish person he was in so much pain. The steroids have helped his pain since he started them. I was concerned that the steroids would give the neospora more of a chance to multiply and the neurologist said that was true but with the new antibiotic he thinks it might not be a problem. The joys of medicine, cross your fingers.  He is also hoping the steroids will increase his appetite, a good for us side affect.

   So the new antibiotic is sulfa based and far stronger than the last. Some of the problems are that it will also attack his good cells and has a very good chance of shutting down his liver. He wanted a base line blood chemistry done and then another done after two weeks. However, he told me not to worry about the first as being in the car is painful for Wesson. The chemistry is to see if/how fast his liver is shutting down.... On the other hand, I can draw blood and volunteer at a vet clinic so I just took his blood into work and they ran the base line chemistry. No pain for Wesson and we can actually determine more accurately how the new drug is affecting him. The neurologist told me that most people at this point do not bother with the chemistry and that I didn't have to do it. He called this drug a "last chance" drug and said it would either kill him or the disease will and that is why a lot of people don't bother with the chemistry (they are expensive, even more if you have the vet draw blood). 

   So he could be on this sulfa based antibiotic for the next two months, I believe he said no more than 8 weeks... And we hope that this will kill the neospora and maybe ease his symptoms. The biggest problem here seems to be that there is no real way to tell if the clindamycin actually killed the neospora. They can't do titers again to tell if they are gone because they will show up anyway because of the antibodies. The only way to be sure is if his clinical signs go away. The reason this is a problem is that the damage is often permanent. 

   So I am concerned that we may end up injuring his liver when the neospora were already gone and he would be ok and just not able to walk well...  If he is just unable to walk well that is fine by me so long as he is still here. He is doing a great job training his replacement and I can always put him with the chickens instead of the goats. Less work for him to do. If he weren't so awesome we would turn him into a house dog. But while he loves being in the house and getting hugs, he will only put up with being locked in for a short time before he is stressing about getting outside and chasing intruders...


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## Hens and Roos (Oct 1, 2016)

and  for you both


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## TAH (Oct 1, 2016)

Hugs to you both


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## frustratedearthmother (Oct 1, 2016)

Prayers and positive thoughts sent your way.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Dec 14, 2016)

It has been a while and there has been a lot of communication between the neurologists and myself about Wesson. Luckily the main neurologist is finally off maternity leave. She had no doubt it was caused by Neospora. She did give him the treatment they use on horses for EPM. Basically a "why not?" moment, they are both caused by protozoa. She also took him off the steroids, yes they were dangerous, and put him on gabapentin(?). He continued to show the neurological damage but he got to the point where he is no longer in pain. This was great for us as it has been hard trying to decide whether to put him down or not. 

Wesson continued to lose weight however, a few weeks ago he dropped to 74 lbs despite all we tried. I weighed him at the vet yesterday and he went up to 86 lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No more pain and gaining weight!!!! We are so excited and relieved we didn't jump the gun on euthanasia! He will still be "crippled" for life but it has not stopped him so far! I also weighed his replacement yesterday, she turned 6 months on the 2nd and weighed in at 99.8 lbs. Now I am watching hoping she doesn't decide to challenge him before he teaches her as much as possible. We are building a new fenced area that is more level and near our barn where he can go when she is ready. This way he can guard the chickens and various babies without so many hills or so much land to cover (it will only be a few acres). 

I still need to call the neurologist and update them. I hope this will be properly recorded so that someone else going through this wont have to deal with the huge lack of recorded or recognized cases and can see what can be done.


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## Hens and Roos (Dec 14, 2016)

Glad hear


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## TAH (Dec 14, 2016)




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## frustratedearthmother (Dec 14, 2016)

Great news!


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## Bunnylady (Dec 14, 2016)

Thank you so much for the update. It is marvelous to hear that progress has been made, and at least Wesson isn't in pain. As gut-wrenching and frustrating as this experience has been for you, I hope that others can benefit from your experience.


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## Latestarter (Dec 14, 2016)

I can read the relief in your font! So glad things are turning to the positive for you. I hope it continues and Wesson is able to live out a peaceful remainder of his life with a "job" to do, however minor.


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## sadieml (Dec 28, 2016)

I'm sooo glad to hear that Wesson's pain finally is being managed.  My DH has continuous chronic pain with his MS, and the pain is more debilitating than the disease.  (My Aunt Janet had a nephew who committed suicide after 2 or 3 years of uncontrolled chronic pain.)  ...and weight gain to boot?  WOW!!!  He sounds like he's not ready to be written off just yet.  What a blessing.


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## Devonviolet (Dec 28, 2016)

I just found this thread.  Once I started reading, I couldn't stop . . . had to see how things turned out for sweet Wesson.
I'm so glad I did. While the outcome isn't ideal, at least Wesson is no longer in pain and able to continue to do his job, albeit with a decreased workload. 

@dejavoodoo114, I'm so sorry you & Wesson had to go through this. But, how generous of you to share the journey, so others can benefit from your experience!


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

Thank you all! @Latestarter we are so relieved that he is doing better! Sometimes I really wished he felt a little worse so I didn't have watch him so carefully. FOR EXAMPLE: Last night he jumped(climbed/fell) out of the window in the screened in porch where we feed him and his replacement. Grrrr he was off chasing something so we couldn't lock him in the pasture. This is a picture of him this morning in our front lawn.





(I really hope that actually shows.) I can't figure out how to post pictures!!! (Edited to add this, please help) Edited again to add url straight to post.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1387896077907831&set=pcb.1387896864574419&type=3&theater

Anyway, I was glaring at him through the window (he ignored me) because he is not supposed to be watching the whole property anymore! He is too damaged. Next thing I know this (loving/frustrated expletive) lifts his head, looks toward the barn and launches across the driveway. Smith gets up to back him up and they both tear across the hay field to the far pasture and barn. Wesson keeps landing on his pelvic region as his legs give out but wont slow down at all!!!  I am angry and furious thinking he is going to throw his back out or make himself worse because a stupid car is coming up our driveway... Turns out it was a coyote eyeing the goats in the pasture and Smith and Wesson chased him off........  I was glad there was no way he could catch up to the coyote because he would not do very well in a fight. Smith is good for backing Wesson in a fight but Wesson is (was) the real killer.

We now have him trapped in the house though. When we got him back he had a cut on his back paw and a wound on his flank. I am letting him rest before I tackle the flank but I already took care of the paw. He is staying in the house Period! He probably was chasing other stuff off last night because the wound is fresh but not fresh enough to be from that coyote.

Honestly it has been so hard to have to keep him locked in the pasture. We have lost over 40 chickens in the past 3 months while he was locked up for his own good! We have maybe 3 left..... That is just one more reason to get that small pasture fenced in so he can protect the chickens and be locked up.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

@sadieml I also understand chronic pain. I am a disabled vet with really messed up hips. My heart really goes out to Wesson because he can't use crutches or cane to get around easier! He now walks the way I do without aid. Actually, we laugh about that a lot. Anyway, that is why I thought it was so important that his pain was taken care of. If he did not lose the pain I would have put him down.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

I shaved his flank and his shoulder, both have multiple puncture wounds. Just a scrape on his nose but a bigger, but not huge, cut on his right hind leg near his paw. I was yelling at him in a calm even voice telling him how stubborn stupid he was...... My husband started cracking up, said we were both the same, lions stuck in a crippled body. lol I love that man!


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## Latestarter (Jan 6, 2017)

Teared up reading this. What a guy! Damn, don't you just love a good dog? They just never give up or give in! Sorry you've lost all your flock (just about) since Wesson went down. Was able to see the FB pics via the link. He looks so natural and right at home laying out there in the snow doing what he was bred & lives/loves to do.   He must be feeling much better, though YOU don't see it but concentrate on what he no longer is. Hope you'll continue the occasional updates. Sounds like Smith isn't ready to be the alpha and on his own just yet. Hope Wesson can carry the load till that time comes. You'll most likely be considering another team mate for Smith at some point. Hope he/she is the best ever.


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 6, 2017)

poor guy, hope the wounds heal quick!


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

@Latestarter Smith is never going to take over. We bought Smith and Wesson within months of each other. Smith is only good as a nanny and keeping people away (which is really nice so we appreciate him). We purchased another LGD not long after his diagnosis. We were already searching for a breed to buy this Spring but his illness pushed plans forward. Unfortunately, she just turned 7 months on Jan 3rd. We are very pleased with her and her temperament and well, just about everything..... But she stays in the goat pasture, supposedly with Wesson (who has been Great at teaching her manners) and the pig.
 We have introduced her to the chickens and she has stayed all day in our chicken coop (12x80) with Wesson to watch her on many different days. There was never an issue thanks to Wesson. Actually, for the first few weeks she was here Wesson would not let her within 10 feet of any chicken, even when we had her on a leash outside of a pen. We did not push him but respected his opinion. He allows her close now that he has come to trust her some. 
 We need to protect Wesson from himself! He is far too valuable to us as a partner so as much as he hates it he is stuck in the house for the rest of the weekend at least! Even though we have lost most of our free range chickens our breeders are in the chicken tractor in the front yard. Wesson's health trumps the chicken's lives. (Sorry for the chicken lovers...)


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

This is a picture of Wesson and my youngest son on Christmas during dinner. Note the hole in the screen, he can barely walk and he gets out of that anytime he hears something he doesn't like!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1387896084574497&set=pcb.1387896864574419&type=3&theater


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

@Hens and Roos Thank you. I think I am calming down now. It is so frustrating! Because of the depth of the puncture wounds I called the vet I volunteer for to get a dosage for antibiotic. We had some left over clindamycin of varying doses. Just enough to last until I get to work Monday and pick more up. Luckily I am quite familiar with varying stages of wounds and can keep a good eye out on how he is doing. Puncture wounds are the worst. If we weren't snowed in I would have considered taking him to the vet for a drain tube.


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 6, 2017)




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## Latestarter (Jan 6, 2017)

He was punctured that deep? Dang... maybe a tussle with that coyote or another earlier/overnight? Hope no infection and that it heals well and fast.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

@Latestarter, yes he was punctured that deeply. You could see the size of the tooth because one went along under the skin and was inflamed. There were also punctures that went into the muscle and some that tore the skin off in a tooth shape. He is on antibiotics. I do think it was a coyote during the night, not the one I saw them chasing.


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## Baymule (Jan 6, 2017)

The heart of a warrior.....


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 6, 2017)

Wow! Poor guy 

Have you considered bringing some started or trained dogs in? Seems like you have a bad coyote problem!


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

Honestly! I knew we had a problem when we moved here. But for the last 4-5 years we have wondered if feeding the dogs was worth it. Talk about a blunt reminder! I mean, we love the boys, especially Wesson (Smith has his place with us as well), but sometimes we wondered if that much dog food was worth it. Oi!  Silly us! We are learning just how valuable and important Wesson was. And it is hard. Both because we love him and because of the cost to the livestock. I really would love a started LGD but we don't have the fencing for most... That makes it harder.


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## Bruce (Jan 6, 2017)

If you have fencing for Smith and Wesson, would it not be OK for a started dog as well? 

You are right, no chicken is as valuable as Wesson. Even if he were content to be retired from guarding and his job was to teach the younger dog how to behave around the animals. Talk about invaluable.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

We do not have fencing for Smith or Wesson. Only our 8-9 acre goat pasture is currently fenced (both could get in and out at will until Wesson got sick and now he is stuck in there). Actually, we also have a small half acre paddock off the barn for goats (bucks) we don't want with our girls. Beyond that, 32 acres all unfenced. They go into my neighbors cattle fields sometimes, but since his calves kept breaking through his fence to sleep in the barn with Wesson the neighbor never complained. Plus, he stopped loosing calves.... They know where our property is, where they are allowed to explore and where they are not welcome. A pup is easier to train to such a situation I would think.


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## Bruce (Jan 6, 2017)

I wonder if Smith and Wesson would train a started dog to the boundaries. I'm sure it would depend on the dog. If it is known to roam far and wide, it would be harder. 40ish acres plus your neighbor's cattle field?? Wow, seems you are under dogged.  

Neighbor's calf coming to sleep with Wesson is too cute! I bet he is thrilled to let your dogs guard his property.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

Yeah, at first he gave me this "your dogs pooped in my pasture where I feed", so I told him his calves pooped in my barn where I (remember I am crippled) step... So he was quiet. Then he stopped loosing calves, now he is happy! lol!

As far as training the one pup we have as a replacement... She was very spendy and is friendly to people, I worry.... She was immediately attached to the goats and the pig when she got here, I give credit to a great breeder! Even when the goats got out she stuck by them. But she is only 7 months old... I am sure I will come to trust her as much as I trust Wesson but, if she ran off, or pissed a farther neighbor off, I live in East TN. She would be shot. And the other pup I am getting cost me even more so...  Just paranoid I guess. I will take that into consideration though. If I could find an adult in this breed I like, not pyrenese, then I doubt I would hesitate.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 6, 2017)

@Bruce I misread some of what you said. With his injuries, I am not sure he would be able to assert himself over an older dog. Our pup is already 103 lbs and Wesson has just reached 86! Our pup listens to him for now but probably not for long. He really had to put her in her place multiple times when she arrived at 14 weeks old. She was the dominant pup of the litter and used to getting her way. lol Wesson taught her who was in charge!

I am trying to correct the situation of being under dogged...


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 10, 2017)

This is Wesson and my youngest on Christmas during dinner time.



 
This is the picture I took of him Friday morning just before he went after another coyote. Before I had realized he was already injured from coyotes the night before!


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## babsbag (Jan 10, 2017)

Yippee, you did it.

A dog that is all heart, bless his soul.  How much land do you have that the dogs have to guard?

ETA: Never mind, I just read it above.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 10, 2017)

I know! I can't believe how long I missed that button. I thought I had to have it online for it to show... I can handle Excel like you wouldn't believe and every other Office (including Access) easily. As well as many other programs but the internet??? Oi


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 10, 2017)

Everything you can see in that picture is mine and more on the left side as well as wooded area on the right. The tall trees in the back are the end of our property. You can just see the roof of the barn smack dab (nearly) in the middle of the picture hiding behind a hill. It was towards the barn that Wesson went bounding off to chase off another coyote...

ETA: The goat pasture is not at all visible in that picture...


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## babsbag (Jan 10, 2017)

Those of us that can use Access are a dying breed. I really enjoyed my time using that program and I make Excel do all kinds of fun things, I even write Macros for it. That being said, I am not fond of Facebook so I understand.

You might need even more dogs...puppies one day?


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## Latestarter (Jan 10, 2017)

How's the old fella doing? Feeling any better/healing up I hope?


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 10, 2017)

I was just telling someone else that I would like puppies. 4 would be just right. Then I wouldn't have to worry about finding homes for the extras! Kimber and my new male are from different areas of Turkey and Kimber's PennHip scores are great! But I am really only interested in breeding more for myself.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 10, 2017)

@Latestarter, Wesson is driving me nuts. He is currently staring at me wondering why my fingers are messing with this thing instead of his head... He keeps waking me up all night trying to get me to let him outside! I will only let him in the back yard and this annoys the heck out of him! His wounds are healing well and there is no sign of infection. They are itching though and I keep threatening him with the cone of shame....


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## babsbag (Jan 10, 2017)

Convincing her to only have 4 pups might be a challenge. But you know that good LGDs are a treasure so you might be doing the LGD world a favor.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 10, 2017)

Well, we have 2 years before we have to cross that bridge! I do like the idea of "convincing" her to only have 4! Ahem, "Now Kimber dear, you and (male pup) do great guarding the small goat pasture. But we need some extra help near the barn with the wethers, extra bucks, chickens, and piglets... We also need some in the larger back pasture with the growing piglets, goats etc... The nice part is you only have to deliver 4 pups! Lets stick with that number shall we?"


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## Latestarter (Jan 10, 2017)

Oh if were only that simple!


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## Latestarter (Jan 10, 2017)

Mel doesn't stare... he walks up and forcefully injects his fat head under my arm lifting it up and away from the keyboard and then moves around until I get it right. Or he'll put his big old paw up (or both) and pin my arm down until I turn and give him the attention he so rightly deserves right that minute


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 10, 2017)

Oh my @Latestarter! That is exactly what he usually does! I told him he had to "go" so he backed up and just sat staring at me wanting me to look at him (which he takes as permission to try again)!


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## Bruce (Jan 10, 2017)

When I was in High School we had a rescue collie. When you were sitting in an armchair, she would come up from behind and shove her long pointed nose between your upper arm and body. Then she would walk with her muzzle lifting your lower arm until your hand was on her head. She would keep walking until your hand was on her rump. 
"Ah, that's the spot!"
"Don't stop!!!"

And if you stopped the process would be repeated.


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## NH homesteader (Jan 10, 2017)

I taught my dog the "touch" command as a puppy so still when he wants something he comes and bops me with his nose. If he needs to go out it can sometimes be a rather hard nose bump!


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 10, 2017)

Sorry for the blurry picture... But Wesson is feeling a lot better today! He is actually able to curl up on the dog bed now which he had not been able to do since Friday! 

ETA: We have spoiled Wesson quite a bit since he became sick... He pretty much tries to follow us everywhere now with his head permanently attached to our laps or hands.. I should feel bad about that but I don't! We were so close to putting him down...


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## Baymule (Jan 10, 2017)

That is such a sweet picture! I am glad that Wesson will have a "light duty" job to do. These dogs have to have something to do. Hawks migrate here for the winter, but we have not lost a chicken to hawks-ever. Wesson will be important to your chicken flock.


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## Latestarter (Jan 10, 2017)

Every time you have a good report for/on Wesson I just sit here and smile from ear to ear! I know he'll never be what he once was, but incremental gains and improvements are wonderful and I hope they continue for a long time to come! When it come time for him to once again have a "job", however minor, he may decide he's come to like retirement better!


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks @Baymule! We have seen a lot more hawks around since Wesson got sick. Maybe coyotes and raccoons and skunks are not the only thing getting our chickens... I keep getting reminded of all the things I had put out of my mind as no longer an issue because they are becoming issues again!

@Latestarter, honestly, if he decides he wants to spend the remainder of his life in the house I would not object! The tile and wood can be a little hard on him now with his gait and balance so messed up but if he is happy we are happy. Our "Super dog" deserves whatever he wants (We may have been watching the old superman movies with the boys tonight) so long as it is safe for him!


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## Bruce (Jan 11, 2017)

I'm sure you've followed enough to know that @Southern by choice retires some of her favorite working dogs to the house. Nothing wrong with Wesson doing the same! Maybe as you increase your quantity of working LGDs, he will feel comfortable not going out to protect against big predators knowing its covered.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 11, 2017)

Bruce said:


> I'm sure you've followed enough to know that @Southern by choice retires some of her favorite working dogs to the house. Nothing wrong with Wesson doing the same! Maybe as you increase your quantity of working LGDs, he will feel comfortable not going out to protect against big predators knowing its covered.


Yes, and I can say the first year was HARD! Taking a nocturnal dog and a guardian and havingg  him acclimate took time and patience. I do think having baby goats in the house and a "job" helped. Now he is a ridiculous couch potato spoiled and a brat... he is now a house guardian. Which has it's issues but he is great.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 16, 2017)

I wasn't sure where to post this so I am posting it here... This is copied from elsewhere.

******So with Wesson being out of commission because of the coyote attack quite a few things have changed here. In our worry about Kimber being left alone protecting the goats we put our useless pyr Smith in the pasture with him.... That was a big mistake on our part. We had avoided putting them together so that she could learn good lessons from Wesson not bad lessons from Smith...

Smith does not like being trapped in the pasture and has never seen a fence he couldn't get out of. But we didn't want Kimber chewed up the way Wesson was... Now Smith has shown Kimber how to get out of the pasture and she wants to follow him around. This is bad as Smith roams a fair bit and has too many bad habits.

Kimber has gotten out of the pasture many (about 5 or 6) times in the last few days. She always comes up to the house and we keep putting her back in. I know what we did wrong (letting her be with Smith) but what would you suggest we do to ensure that she doesn't go elsewhere? I don't want to give her treats for coming to the house but I don't want her going elsewhere either. I have given her treats when we put her back in the pasture... We know the hole and will be blocking it up if she doesn't stop. We had left it open so Smith could go in there if needed...********

Now Wesson is back in the pasture but she has still gotten out a few times.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 16, 2017)

Something else happened this morning. I was woken up early by the neighbor who has a clear view of our hill/goat pasture from his house. He used to have goats. He said he heard a kid crying and that he saw the dog(s) chasing one of the does away from where the kid sound was coming from.

Naturally I was a bit confused because our goats should be kidding in March not Jan! But we did have our fainting goat kid the first week of Dec. They are also in the pasture now. 

So I sent the boys down to the bottom of the pasture right away. Kimber was laying down with the doeling and her dam right next to her. No problems.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 16, 2017)

I walked down into the pasture yesterday to watch Kimber and Wesson with the goats. That is something I can only do so often because I have bad hips. But I got these pictures of Kimber while I was down there.

 Oh, and the neighbor just called back to see if there was a kid down there. He said he could see Kimber laying down with the kid and her dam laying right next to her!!!


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## Latestarter (Jan 16, 2017)

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to deal with the same thing when I finally get my goats, with Mel. He's now 2 years old and though he lived with the goats and other LGDs until I picked him up at ~5 months old, that was quite a while ago. I'm going to need to get him re-acclimated and hope that he bonds with them. I'm expecting that it will take a bit and some amount of patience on my part.



dejavoodoo114 said:


> We know the hole and will be blocking it up if she doesn't stop. We had left it open so Smith could go in there if needed...********



What are you waiting for? Block it up. The idea is to keep the dog(s) in. I thought you said that Smith doesn't want to go in there? Maybe Smith was chasing which the neighbor saw? I know you're short on dogs and long on coyotes, but maybe re-homing Smith might prove beneficial? Sorry you're having to deal with all these issues. Sometimes life just isn't fair... or easy


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## dejavoodoo114 (Jan 16, 2017)

@Latestarter, you really hit the nail on the head. "Short on dogs and long on coyotes"... Smith is best in a family situation. He is safe around all livestock but doesn't care enough to protect them. He does a good job of scaring off people and that is why we have kept him. I am not sure with our coyote problem if it would be wise to get rid of him. Every once in a while he will back up Wesson....

I guess we have not blocked it up because we were hoping he might actually do something.....


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