# 5 day old calf not eating, not active... Cause for concern?



## BigMac

Hi all, I am brand new to the world of bovines, so bear with me if I ask any repetitive or stupid questions... My family jumped into the world of cattle yesterday with the acquisition of our first calf, a 5-day-old Jersey bull from a local dairy. Cute as a button, but he seemed lethargic and refused to eat for hours. The wife and I got aggressive and decided we didn't want to chance him dehydrating in the heat of a Utah September, so we did an esophageal tube and loaded him up on 2 quarts of what our kids are calling "Cow-Gatorade", electrolytes and water. Two hours later, we gave him 2 quarts of milk replacer from IFA, again, via tube. By that time, he seemed somewhat more energetic and was willing to stand up and walk around a little bit with the kids, but soon sought out a shady spot in the weeds to lie down in again. 

This morning, he seemed a little more bright-eyed. We continued feeding with the tube: 2 quarts of milk-replacer at 7 AM. 2 quarts of electrolytes at 11 AM. 2 more quarts of milk replacer for lunch/dinner. 

He's been pooped bright yellow yesterday and this morning. Cows being cows, he was covered in poop. Kids being kids, they decided to give the little guy a bath! He seemed to enjoy the rubbing and hosing, and fought us only a little bit as we worked all the manure out of his coat. He even stood pretty still to let the kids brush him afterward. 

This evening, he went right back to his choice little spot in the tall weeds at the back of his little "field" and laid down. He's been there for the last three hours now and doesn't seem interested in moving or doing anything. 

We've had a 30 gallon pail full of fresh water available to him all day, and a little dish with about a pound of calf-starter. He's nosed the water a little, and sniffed the calf-starter, but hasn't eaten or drank anything we haven't literally shoved down his throat.

Is this normal? Should we be concerned? Or are we doing everything right and we just need to be patient? We're concerned he was separated from momma so young, but apparently the dairy farmer was ready to cull him if someone didn't take him. PLEASE SETTLE MY NERVES ABOUT THIS LITTLE GUY!


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## redtailgal

Was he on the mother prior to you getting him? or was he on the bottle?

Cows covered in manure.....this is NOT cows being cows, this is a sign of a problem.  A healthy cow or calf keeps itself clean.  Also, I wouldnt recommend allowing your kids to wash him again, at least until he is more acclimated to his new home, and is eating/drinking/pooping normally.  RIght now, his system is compromised and he doesnt have the ability to fight off pneumonia very well (and tube feeding and lethargy GREATLY increases his chances of getting it even without the bath)


Moving can be stressful on them and cause some bowel discomfort.

here is what I would do:

Keep him warm, dry and off grass until he is pooping normally.

Do not feed milk replacer for the next 12 hours. Puring milk in a scouring animal is a pretty bad idea, their system needs to rest, AND all you are doing is pouring your $$$ out their rear end.  Think about it this way.......when your belly is upset and you have the squirts, how would your system react to being bombarded with milk?  Honestly, forcing milk in him right now will only make this problem last longer.

  Take the grain away for a week.  Feed ONLY electrolyte enhanced water and have fresh hay and water out at all times.

After that 12 hours, mix milk replacer at full strenth, then feed one part milk replacer and one part electrolyte solution 

Do this for 12 hours.

Then feed two parts milk replacer to one part electrolyte solution.

Do this for 12 hours.

Then feed full strenth milk replacer.

Monitor closely for watery bowels. If there is wet poop on his back side, start over at day one.

ALso, goto your local feed store and find some corrid or dimeth, as he probably has  some coccidia going on.  This is important, coccidia will stunt his growth pretty bad if left untreated.  With his age, and the recent relocation this is likely part of the problem.  Its a cheap and easy fix.

As for the tube feeding, go easy on it. Never tube feed without first trying to get him to take a bottle.  Do it only twice a day, so his belly is empty and he is hungry.  This will not only encourage him to take the bottle, but will also lessen the possibility of bloat.  Have a large container of baking soda available, and if he does bloat, tube him about 2-3 tablespoons mixed with enough water to make it liquidy.  While the tube is down in the gut, bang (I mean BANG) on his belly to see if you can get a burp.  If you dont think you are hurting him, hit harder, with an open hand.  SLAP the snot out of his belly.

Each time you tube feed, you damage the esophagus. It makes them sore and less likely to eat properly on their own, thus creating a "snowball" effect.  When you do tube him, lubricate the tube with a little vegetable oil (NOT mineral oil).

Back him into a corner, straddle him, and put a bottle in his mouth.  Hold his jaw shut over it and wiggle it.  PUt some pancake syrup on the nipple if you want.  

I'd also try him with bucket feeding.  I've had several calves that would not take a bottle but took to bucket feeding right off the bat.  Have a helper to hold the bucket.  Get him to suck your fingers if he will and lower your hand into the bucket while he is sucking it so he will suck it up.  If he wont suck your fingers, add a LITTLE pancake syrup to the mix and dunk his nose in it a couple times.  We are not talking waterboarding him, so be gentle and considerate.

Your best chance of saving him is with a little tough love.  You'll feel mean doing these things, esp making him get good and hungry before trying, but keep reminding yourself its for his own good.  Remember that, right now, the goal is NOT to get him to gain weight, it's to keep him alive and get him well.


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## bonbean01

I'm sorry that I don't know the answers to your questions...but that is very young to be taken from his Mama...of course you really didn't have a choice....would have been culled if you and your family hadn't stepped in.  From what I know, you are all doing your very best and keeping the little one hydrated which is important.  Hope someone who knows about calves responds soon with advice.  Have you tried a bottle or nipple on a pail for feeding milk replacer?  My Dad did that with our calves from our milk cow, but not this young...just a thought.  

Good luck and hope you get good answers soon!


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## BigMac

He was on his mother prior to us getting him and got his colostrum and sucked her dry several days in a row. I'll let his system rest for the next day and put him on the electrolyte program suggested by Redtail. How do I know he is bloated as opposed to just being full of food/poop? 

Also, wife wants to bring him inside for the night and let him sleep on a blanket in our room to keep a close eye on him. Good or bad idea? His outside setup is a 8X8 chain link dog run covered for shade and filled with straw and hay for bedding.


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## bonbean01

Whew...glad Redtail Gal responded...she must have been posting when I did...I know nothing about calves, but she does...I would follow her advice exactly!  Hope your little calf does well!


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## BigMac

No kidding! Redtail sounds like a seasoned pro, and I will be following her advice to the letter. You're off the hook Bonbean! Thanks for your concern though. Just went to check on him, and he is scouring. Am I ok to rinse off his hindquarters to keep him clean and keep flies away?


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## redtailgal

BigMac said:
			
		

> He was on his mother prior to us getting him and got his colostrum and sucked her dry several days in a row. I'll let his system rest for the next day and put him on the electrolyte program suggested by Redtail. How do I know he is bloated as opposed to just being full of food/poop?
> 
> Also, wife wants to bring him inside for the night and let him sleep on a blanket in our room to keep a close eye on him. Good or bad idea? His outside setup is a 8X8 chain link dog run covered for shade and filled with straw and hay for bedding.


Bloat shows up as an enlarged belly. It will be larger than a "full of food" belly, and will have a very hollow drum like sound when thumps.  He'll probably stand with his back roached up (curled upward) and may bet up and lay down often in an attempt to find a comfy position.  He wont poop and may moan.  He'll act VERY lethargic.  Watch for very droopy ears, that will be your first sign.  Notice how his ears are now, take a pic if you need to (and post it here, so I can see the baby, lol).  This way you will have a good comparison if you think his ears are droopy but are not sure.

As for bringing him in......I've brought a few in the house IF it was bitter cold outside.  None of them did well, and seemed to go downhill faster once inside.  If he is able to keep warm and dry, then he should be fine outside and that is what I would recommend.


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## BigMac

I'll try and get a photo posted for you... still need to figure out how to do that! He definitely is not bloated (at least not anymore). He may have been earlier, but his gut looks good, and is not "thumpy" at all! Between my last post and your response, I, being overly concerned, went out and brought him into the house. He is now wandering around the house following my little, black miniature schnauzer from room to room, mooing all the time. That is a big change from his norm the last day and a half. He's not moo'd except when I had a tube down his throat. Now that he's in the house, he's all sorts of talkative. And whatever room my little dog leads him into he keeps coming back to me at the computer until my dog comes back and leads him off again. Any feedback on all of that? 

Glad to have the instructions of a pro to back up my inclination to keep the farm outside. Even if I am a little late in following it.  It's always good to have an authority to reference when stating my own opinion.  

I'll probably be keeping him in here a little longer and then taking him back out to bed when I go to bed. 

Any tips on posting photos?


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## redtailgal

BigMac said:
			
		

> I'll try and get a photo posted for you... still need to figure out how to do that! He definitely is not bloated (at least not anymore). He may have been earlier, but his gut looks good, and is not "thumpy" at all! Between my last post and your response, I, being overly concerned, went out and brought him into the house. He is now wandering around the house following my little, black miniature schnauzer from room to room, mooing all the time. That is a big change from his norm the last day and a half. He's not moo'd except when I had a tube down his throat. Now that he's in the house, he's all sorts of talkative. And whatever room my little dog leads him into he keeps coming back to me at the computer until my dog comes back and leads him off again. Any feedback on all of that?
> 
> Glad to have the instructions of a pro to back up my inclination to keep the farm outside. Even if I am a little late in following it.  It's always good to have an authority to reference when stating my own opinion.
> 
> I'll probably be keeping him in here a little longer and then taking him back out to bed when I go to bed.
> 
> Any tips on posting photos?


Pics:  you'll have to have several posts before you can post pics.  I dont know how many you need, though.  Go meet some people and then come back and try.  When you do get the ability to post pics,  use the IMG button you will see in the top of the frame when you hit reply.

If he is walking around the house and mooing, he is well enough to be outside for sure.  If you dont take him out, you will have a long night and a messy morning!


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## BigMac

Awesome... He's now curled up by my feet. For pics and video now, I created a Facebook page you can visit and see the little bugger https://www.facebook.com/KaejjaFarms


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## redtailgal

Was he standing oddly or is he really that knock knee'd?

If his front legs are really like that, he needs a shot or two of BoSe........you'll have to ask a vet for it.


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## BigMac

Go back to the facebook page and you can now see a video of him. See if that gives you enough information. What is BoSe? and what's wrong with his legs?


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## BigMac

I went back to the series of photos I took that one from, and it looks like he was taking a step in the photo that makes his knees look much closer together than usual.


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## redtailgal

OK I see. I was a little worried for ya there for a minute.  He looked fine in the video.  Pretty much like a healthy little guy with a mild case of scours.  Ears are up, belly is good, plenty of strength and very little grace (lol, love the "lay down" on the slick floor, that was cute  )

Sometimes when a calf is born the legs are not straight.  Sometimes its just weakness, sometimes they have just been stuck in a strange position in the womb, and sometimes there is a deficiency that can be straightened out with a shot of BoSe.  It's used for bent legs and for lethargic babies.  Its a combo shot of selenium and  vitamin e.  Many places have soil deficient in selenium, so some folks just go ahead and give it to newborns at birth.  It wont hurt them even if they dont need it, but I tend to wait until I see something that does need it, and after seeing the video, I dont think your calf needs it.

If his appetite doesnt improve in the next 24 hours, I would consider a vit b12 to give his appetite a little boost.

He looks pretty good, so dont worry so much.  Just follow the scours protocol I gave you (dont forget about the coccidia) and he should be fine.


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## redtailgal

oh and I meant to tell you that you should start getting him used to a halter and lead rope as soon as he will drink for you.  Just put the halter and lead on him and lead him to his milk each time.  He'll fight you the first few times, but dont give in.  Make him walk to his milk on the lead rope each time and in a couple days, he will be leading like a champ.  Doing this now will make your life MUCH MUCH easier in a few months.

ALso, be very careful about what habits you let him develop.  No head butting, no kicking, no rubbing his forehead on you........just a pop on the shoulders and a sharp "NO" each time he does it.  When he does something cute, ask yourself if it will be cute 900 pounds from now.  Forehead rubbing from a 900 pound steer can be pretty painful and dangerous, even if the steer is just playing. Preventing this now will make you MUCH MUCH safer in a few months.  Make him act like he weighs 900 pounds now, so that when he IS 900 pounds, he'll know no other way to act.

Dont be mean, but make him respect you, even if he is headed for freezercamp.


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## BigMac

Woke up before dawn this morning to find Baby Mac standing in his pen! Yay! Standing is good! While gone for work, wife reported that he was eagerly following my daughter around, drank a little water from his bucket and went to town on the salt lick. He apparently was also munching some dirt. (Mineral deficiency?) He still would not suck, so he got electrolytes by tube. But he is acting far more alert and active.


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## redtailgal

Try his bottle every time, and rub a little pancake syrup on the nipple next time.

He really needs to get off that tube.  

This may sound harsh, but now that he is doing well.....offer him the bottle tonight and if he doesnt take it, dont tube him.  Let him get good and hungry and reoffer it in the morning.  He's drinking from the bucket, so it wont hurt him.

Time for some tough love.


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## BigMac

Ouch! Tough love indeed!


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## daisychick

Since he drank out of the bucket with water, couldn't you just skip the bottle and go straight to milk in the bucket like Redtailgal suggested earlier.   He may put up less fight about the bucket.  I hate to see him still being tube fed if he is feeling better.


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## BigMac

And of course... maybe the simplest solution would be the right one! We'll offer the bucket first tonight and see if he takes to it. Redtail, do you think it's ok to offer him full milk replacer yet since he's acting better? Or should I keep him on the electrolyte program?


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## redtailgal

HOw does his poop look?


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## redtailgal

ya know, on second thought......

Unless his poop is just plain nasty watery, or is bloody looking, go ahead and offer him milk replacer without electrolytes.  Dont mix it full strength, mix your full amount but cut your powder in half.

Try to get him to suck your finger, put a little syrup on it if he doesnt.  If that doesnt work, then dunk his little nose in there (dont drown him but make him get a taste....sitck your finger in his mouth and splash some in there)

If he doesnt take the milk, put it in the fridge and warm it to slightly above room temp in the morning. (some calves dont like their milk real warm)  and try him again withthe bucket, and then with the bottle if he doesnt take it.

If you cant get it in him in the morning, dump the milk, and dont tube him unless he is acting weak. (be strong here, its for his own good)

Find some B12 if he doesnt start eating by tomorrow.  Go ahead and get two doses, give him one tomorrow and one the next day. (you can probably find b12 injectable at the farm store)

Try him again tomorrow about supper time, and if you still cant get anything in him, go ahead and tube him some electrolytes. Dont fill him way up, you want him hungry.

If it makes you feel any better, this is pretty well normal for a jersey calf.  They can be LAZY little buggers, esp when they have been tube fed.  It's like they think "why should I go to the trouble of eating by myself, when those two legged ones will just pour it in for me".  You wanna keep him healthy, but be careful that he is not training YOU.

I've raised out more calves that you can shake a stick out and those lil jersey buggers make me pull my hair out about half the time, lol.

Your doing great with him, keep it up.


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## BigMac

...But BOY are they attractive looking little buggers!


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## BigMac

His poop is yellowy-tan in color and about the consistency of thick soft-serve ice cream. It does seem runny (relative to a healthy people poop), but I haven't really got a good baseline reference for what a healthy calf poop looks like. Taking the analogy a little bit further (probably too far), I'd say his poop right now could easily be confused with home-made banana frozen custard.


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## redtailgal

lol, yes they are.

I am smitten by each one I end up with. Something about that face that just melts your insides into a big puddle.


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## BigMac

Another thing you may be able to give us some feedback on... dehorning. What's your opinion? He has tiny little buds now, and I anticipate they'll grow into big, sharp, pointy things, but I can't stomach the idea of dehorning, the same way I can't stomach declawing a cat.  IS it a terrible idea to let him keep his horns?


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## redtailgal

If he were MY steer, I would have him dehorned.  I have a friend in OKlahoma, who had a gorgeous longhorn steer.  He had been bottle raised, was well behaved and gentle.  I led this fellow around by his ear with no problem. He was a big baby, not a mean bone in his body.  Last year, he had a horsefly land on his rump.  He swung his head around to swat the fly off of him, and in the process disemboweled the horse my friend was sitting on.  The horse was killed and my friends ankle was broken in two places.  Because of a fly.

Your jersey wont get great big horns like a longhorn, but I PROMISE you, at some point in time, he will swat a fly with his horns.  Are you sure you wont be in the way?


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## BigMac

Wow... POINT taken. (haha) I'll share with the missus and see if that little story changes her mind. Dehorning something you do yourself?


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## CochinBrahmaLover=)

You can but vets will do it.  If I were just raising one steer at a time for food and not really 'getting into' cows, I wouldn't bother to buy a dehorner and all

Oh gawd Red... I love texas longhorns but after hearing that...


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## redtailgal

I'd suggest using the vet since you only have one.

I have, under desperate measures, used caustic paste.  If the nubs are small, they can be burned.  If they are starting to protrude, he may need to be scooped.  Either way, I'd call a vet ASAP if this is what you are gonna do.  It will save him some pain and you alot of $$$.

You can ask the vet to put a small injection of lidocaine at the base of each horn to minimize his pain.


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## aggieterpkatie

Definitely get him dehorned, and plan on getting him castrated too!   I second the getting him off the tube idea.  If he is hungry, he will eat. Keeping them on the tube isn't good for them.  Also, most electrolyte solutions say do not feed with milk, so I would not recommend feeding him electrolytes and milk together. Check the kind you got and see if it says that.  When our Jerseys would scour, we'd take them off milk for a day (or two, depending on how bad) and feed nothing but the electrolytes, then we'd go back to the replacer.

Also, it seems young, but most dairy calves never even nurse off their mom at all.  Calves can do just fine that way. It probably upset his system a bit from going to his mom's milk to the milk replacer, so hopefully once his scours has calmed down he'll do fine on the replacer.  Also make sure you're not feeding him too much, because that will make them scour too.  At his age, I'd feed no more than 2 quarts twice a day.


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## BigMac

Ok, after reading Redtail's story about disemboweled horses, the wife has decided that, yes, she can stomach her new baby being dehorned. He has tiny tiny buds that don't show through the fur at all, and are only noticeable if you go looking for them, and even then look and feel like little bald spots on his head. Wife has decreed that paste is preferable over vet because of money and her perceived pain for the baby... [sigh]. (This is the same reason I ended up using bands to castrate him over cutting.) So she prefers a dull burn/ache over a period of days as opposed to a swift sharp pain followed by healing. I can't argue with her logic, but it looks like we'll be pasting his horn buds in the next couple days. 

He is doing better, markedly so. However, he still refused bottle and bucket this morning. SO we took it all away and left him a bucket of water and will try the bottle again this evening.


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## hydroswiftrob

Boy am I glad I found this thread. Just picked up three bottle calves 2 days ago and we are having the same problems with one.


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## BigMac

I am still in the process of working through Baby Mac's feeding issues. But he has stopped scouring and is acting completely different! Thank you Redtailgal! He seems to be pulling through just fine, and I anticipate he'll take a bottle or bucket just fine tonight. I will probably swear by "Redtail's Scours Protocol" from now on!


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## BigMac

Ok, now I need a post-it about posting photos, because I can't figure out how to do it!


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## BigMac

*SUCCESS!!!*


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## marlowmanor

So where did  you put the pictures? I see the one in your avatar, but that's it. It's a cute calf in your avatar BTW! 

In case I haven't said it already


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## redtailgal

When you do the paste........

Wear gloves....several layers in case one layer gets nicked.  You DONT want that stuff on your hands.

Shave around his horns.  I usually shave a nice big bald spot from ear to ear, and several inches in front and behind the nubs.  Yes, it's overkill, but you want to be thorough and only do this once.

Follow the directions on the past EXACTLY.

Keep him WELL away from other critters.  If he rubs them wrong and gets it in their eye, you will be in a terrible mess.

Wear long pants when you are handling him, so it doesnt get rubbed off on your skin.

If you do get some on you, IMMEDIATELY wash the area thoroughly with some warm water and soap for at least 10 minutes.  Again, this is overkill, but I have scars on my hands from the stuff, it's not altogether painful, but will leave a nasty wound.


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## BigMac

I have learned that Facebook pages is a wonderful tool for sharing photos, videos, etc... all in one place! I've posted a bunch of new photos and videos there of our success this afternoon with Baby Mac! Go check it out to see the "ah-ha" moment he started digging in! https://www.facebook.com/KaejjaFarms


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## redtailgal

I KNEW you'd get there!  

COngrats!  Love the halter........and the ride with the honey sounds like it was wonderful (love that pic!)!

I'm really glad to see you starting the halter already.  It will make later on soooo much easier.  You'll need to plan on castrating him soon.  I'd do it as soon as both his.......um........."nuggets" are fully down.  You'll have to get up close and personal.  Grab 'em.......if you can feel both of them from top to bottom, it's time to castrate.  When you band, get the band up high, and ease it down (dont snap it on him if you can help it).  He may cry and walk funny for the afternoon.

I love to watch the littles ones grow, so keep us posted on him, and if you have anymore questions, be sure to ask!


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## BigMac

Tied up his boys yesterday as soon as he started acting more energetic. He's adjusted nicely to being a little "constricted" down there, and seems to be no worse for wear today. Castration is one thing, I do have experience in. As kids, we worked a goat farm one summer and fixed about twenty kids in an afternoon. That was enough to get the hang of it.


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## redtailgal

cool beans.

four kids? sheesh, your a glutton!  I've got three, but am the oldest of five.  lol, those mornings can be crazy!  lol

Good luck with your calf. I'll watch for updates!


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## babsbag

He is adorable. 

I have to share with you what a small world it is. 

20 years ago, in Fairfield CA,  my sons took piano lessons from a lady named Dana Gossner. Her family owned  a dairy in Utah. While looking at your facebook page I see that your baby came from Gossner dairy. How crazy is that. I haven't even thought of her or thier dairy in years. 

Enjoy your baby.


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## marlowmanor

Cute pictures on FB. So since you look like a young couple I have to ask how old are your children?

I've got 3 boys myself. They are 5, 3, and 1 year old. My oldest just started kindergarten this year. One day we may end up trying one more time to see if we can get a girl in the family but that's a few more years down the road.


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## BabyMac

Hi, this is Baby/Big Mac's mama. We're young-ish I guess. Our non furry babes are boys 5 & 4, and girls 2 1/2 and 1. We got lucky and the kiddos got built in best friends/ worst enemies.


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## BigMac

Just wanted to give everyone an update on our little calf... Baby Mac is thriving! I've posted photos and updates on our facebook page https://www.facebook.com/KaejjaFarms please go check it out for all the news, and please "like" us! Thank you again to RedTailGal and all the rest of you who provided such invaluable education and insight during those first few nerve-wracking weeks! 

We started him weaning yesterday, and as of 4:30 PM of day two with no milk, he seems perfectly content (though he did seem peeved I brought him just a bucket of plain old _water_ this morning!) and is munching away at grain and hay.


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## bonbean01

I love good news!!!!  Glad for your update...I had nothing to offer, but followed your thread


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## BigMac

Thanks for the encouragement!


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## Bridgemoof




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## redtailgal

You are quite welcome!  I am glad to have been a help.

And thank you for updating us.  All to often we will try to help and worry over a critter, only to be left to wonder how things turned out.  It's so nice to know.

GASP......a bucket of water! The HORROR of it all!  FOR SHAME!  lol  My calves always like to get a little dramatic.  The last holstein calf I raised was INTENT on making me feel shame....he cried and cried, even fell down a few times.   Oddly enough, he lived through it, lol.


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## greybeard

My calves evidently just know not to bother wasting their theatrics on me.


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## redtailgal

greybeard said:
			
		

> My calves evidently just know not to bother wasting their theatrics on me.


yeah, cuz you ignore them.  

I cant help it.  I go stand at the fence and giggle.  The more I giggle, the better the show.

Hey.........I stuff food in one end, and scoop it back up when it falls out of the other end and I control their slaughter date.........they BETTER make me laugh.


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## larryj57

I just looked at this thread and man amI glad I did. I'm in the same boat as Big Mac, I went calf crazy because I found a good deal and have been wanting calves. I asked a question on another thread and got immediate response I'm so grateful there  are people here willing to share their knowledge and experince.


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## redtailgal

I got a notification from Facebook that lil Mac had died due to a urological complication.

It's such a shame, Big Mac and his family were doing such a wonderful job with him.  It was obvious how much they care for the lil guy.  My heart goes out to them.


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