# Any thoughts on weird periodic illness in my old doe?



## Ariel301 (May 22, 2011)

My old doe Gracee, who has been chronically, extremely underweight since I bought her two years ago has been having weird periodic bouts of...something. 

When I got her, she tested negative for CAE, CL, Johne's, the works. She hasn't been exposed to any positive or possibly positive animals since she came here. 

She's never doing well, she is always thin despite free choice hay, grain, and minerals. We're talking "skeleton with a hide draped over it" thin. She's not wormy and her teeth are fine, and she eats a lot when she feels good. She's always been a little lame in one back leg that looks to have been broken when she was younger.

Every few months, she will suddenly get very sick for a few days. She lays down and needs help to get up, won't eat, gets bloated, and just lays there grinding her teeth with her eyes glazed over like she's half-dead. When I get her up off the ground, she is extremely lame in both hind legs, but they do not swell or show any other signs of something being wrong other than being apparently painful to the touch. Her temperature drops down to about 97. After three or four days of being stuffed full of baking soda, vitamins, and pain meds, she just gets up again and is fine. After this milking season I was going to dry her up and find her a retirement home as a pet, but I'm thinking with these bouts getting more frequent, I'll either need to keep her here where I can baby her until the end or I should just put her to sleep. :/

Anyone seen anything like this before?


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## Beekissed (May 22, 2011)

I'm assuming she is dewormed properly as well?  

Maybe she has some nutrient/mineral deficiency that fluctuates with her intake and at times she is low and it affects her in this manner?  

If she were mine I'd bolus her with unpastuerized vinegar, raw honey and garlic.  I've found this is a good, all-purpose health tonic that many are finding has helped in their most baffling cases of sheep/goat illnesses.  

Worth a shot....


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## ksalvagno (May 22, 2011)

Maybe try some herbs that boost the immune system. Is she possibly older than you think?


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## elevan (May 22, 2011)

Theory 1:
Doesn't a "survived" bout of bad cocci as a kid lead to severe damage of the intestines?  The intestines are what take in almost all nutrients into the system.  So theoretically she could have had a bad bout of cocci as a kid and is now compromised and unable to take in nutrients as she should.

Theoretically, she would have fluctuations where she would be fine for a while and then fall ill for bits of time.  She would also have trouble keeping weight on. 

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Theory 2:
Certain toxicities will cause a drop in body temperature, signs of illness and weight loss / or failure to maintain body condition.

Now, the fact that this is a long time event makes me question the validity of this theory...but hey, I thought I'd throw it out there for you.

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## Ariel301 (May 24, 2011)

I've got a feeling she is a cocci survivor, but not knowing her entire history, I can't say for sure. :/ 

A friend of mine was wondering about laminitis, like horses get...I've never heard of a goat with it, but it seems like it might be possible.

She's back up from the latest round, and right back to milking like normal. So weird.


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## PattySh (May 24, 2011)

Sounds like a pain response. I would consider possibly a pinched nerve acting up in her  back.  Twists herself just right then she goes down for a bit?

Lamititis also a possiblity, What do her hooves look like. Generally they would look a bit off in shape. I had a chronic foundered horse for a few years and she would do the laying down thing alot. If you think thats what it is no pasture, just dry hay and no sweet feed, carrots, apples etc. She should flinch if you put pressure on her hooves or she might have some swelling along the top of the hoof. Foundered animals grow hoof material at a rapid rate.

edited to add my pony was skin and bones the last 2 years of her life, nothing we could do to help her gain and she was in constant pain. We euthanized her last summer.


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## freemotion (May 24, 2011)

My guess would be that a foundered goat would have a similar gait as a foundered horse...that "walking on eggshells" look.  And it wouldn't come and go so quickly and completely.  No?  Yes?  No experience here with a foundered goat, but I've seen a few foundering and recovered horses, and their gait is unmistakable.


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## PattySh (May 24, 2011)

Not sure bout that one, I think the makup of the goats claw hoof  and softer walls might allow for a little more expansion to take place. Not sure if the swelling could relieve itself unlike a horses hoof???? 

Am sure in an older goat chronic weight loss, bouts of illness,  it could be almost anything including cancer.


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## Ariel301 (May 24, 2011)

freemotion said:
			
		

> My guess would be that a foundered goat would have a similar gait as a foundered horse...that "walking on eggshells" look.  And it wouldn't come and go so quickly and completely.  No?  Yes?  No experience here with a foundered goat, but I've seen a few foundering and recovered horses, and their gait is unmistakable.


She does have that funny gait, I have seen that before in horses.  She's always lame in one back foot, sometimes both, and then she has these flare ups where she can't even walk. When she is really hurting, she hunches her back and pulls her hind feet too far forward. She has one really mis-shapen back hoof that basically the toes curve sideways and she walks on the side of her foot almost. The pastern joints are fused and hard to bend on that leg, feels to me like they were broken a long time ago, maybe. I've never had x-rays done on it. I doubt it's a genetic flaw, as her kids have all had great feet and legs that we've seen. Her feet don't feel hot like the feet on a foundered horse usually do, but she does seem really sensitive in the deformed foot when I trim it, which I try to do weekly to keep it looking as normal as it can get. 

I do feed her a LOT of grain, so I could see that aggravating her feet. I hate to do it, because she's so skinny, but maybe I need to cut her grain back and see if it helps any, and give her extra corn oil for the fat she needs to be taking in.


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## babsbag (May 25, 2011)

I am not any help when it comes to feet in goats or horses, but I do know that feeding black oil sunflower seeds fattened up a doe for me last year after she kidded. Maybe you could give her that instead of the grain. My ladies love it, the 8 of them share maybe a cup every day or two and they would kill for it, they like it better than their grain.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 25, 2011)

I have a doe that did that for a couple years, and we finally lost her last year while milking twins, seemed like she got worse the more grain we gave her. she was near 6 last winter.

Now her duaghter at the age of 4 is doing the same thing, they carry heavy parastie loads, will get thin, then maybe put on some weight with effort, then look lame, eventually, I can't get weight back on them.  I always figured it was from their system being damaged by too many parasites and eventually the stomach is ruined and their health just goes down from there.  

Both these does have to be wormed every month or so, while I have does that haven't been wormed in for ever. 

We were trying to get the daughter to look better and just take her into the stockyards, but she isn't in my opinion in good enough health to do that(I wont take sick animals into the sales), so if she doesn't improve on pasture this summer we are going to put her down.


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## Ariel301 (May 25, 2011)

I've been mixing some sunflower seeds in my feed lately because all my goats came out of the winter looking rough, we had a serious hay shortage and all we could get was "cow hay" that I wouldn't have even fed to cows. 

If she does ok with the grain cut down, she might be fine to live the rest of her life as a pet. She looks awful, but she seems so happy when she isn't having one of these episodes that I really would hate to put her down. She has so much will to work, I can't get her to go dry and she wants on the milkstand to be milked even if she can't get up and I have to carry her to it.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jun 8, 2011)

I would consider the possibility of meningeal worms.   We  had a doe with similar symptoms and was treated for it last summer. She improved greatly but went totally down about 3 weeks ago and when she was put down we had the vet autopsy her and it was confirmed that it was damage from the worms to her spine/brain that caused the issues.


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## cmjust0 (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm going to 3rd or 4th the motion for the 'coccidiosis survivor' theory..  That was the first thing that came to my mind..  Actually, it's the first thing that comes to my mind anytime I see a herd of decent looking goats...with one poor doer.


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## Ariel301 (Jun 9, 2011)

Definitely not meningeal worm. 

I am pretty sure she is a cocci survivor, but no way to prove it while she's alive. I am really leaning towards it being laminitis now--she's been almost totally off grain for a while and has stopped limping. Last time I trimmed her feet, a little while after the last episode, there were pockets of dark purple/red between the sole and the white line on the hoof wall, like there was some bleeding and separation, looks a lot like hoofs I've seen on foundered horses. 

We'll be switching her to alfalfa pellets and beet pulp with only a very little bit of grain, and when she is done with this milking season we will make the decision to either put her down or retire her to a pet home. Not looking forward to that.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 10, 2011)

I know someone who's had excellent results with rice bran.


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