# How many do I need?



## DRAGGINZUZU (Dec 21, 2010)

Ok guys I want to be able to have a litter a week, how many does do I need to get a production going? I was thinking 7 and breeding one every week so by the time the first litter is 3 weeks old I can breed the 1st doe again and so on. Does the 7 sound right? I keep trying to write it out but I think im making it harder than it is. Im trying to get a litter ready to butcher or auction every week, Does this make since?


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## Hooligan Farm (Dec 21, 2010)

DRAGGINZUZU said:
			
		

> Ok guys I want to be able to have a litter a week, how many does do I need to get a production going? I was thinking 7 and breeding one every week so by the time the first litter is 3 weeks old I can breed the 1st doe again and so on. Does the 7 sound right? I keep trying to write it out but I think im making it harder than it is. Im trying to get a litter ready to butcher or auction every week, Does this make since?


It depends on how big you want them. Some would say 3 weeks would be to soon to breed again. You may end up over working your doe.


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## DRAGGINZUZU (Dec 21, 2010)

So what would be better 12 weeks? Im raising new zealand / cali crosses. I just have 2 does and a buck now and there both bred last week. But Im thinking how to up the production. are the nz/c crosses ready at 8 weeks? I havent raised any meat rabbits before just some lops and mini rexes about 5 yrs ago. I guess I need to read some more


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## tortoise (Dec 21, 2010)

How hard do you want to work your does?  They are physically capable of being bred the day they kindle.  If you have a pastuerella carrier, you can't breed that hard or you WILL get an outbreak of pastuerella.

I'd say you need at least 8 for a steady supply.  You can wean early at 4 weeks and give the doe a full month to recover.


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## collector (Dec 21, 2010)

I second the 8 doe idea gives them time to recoup, strength,and nutrition before kindling and feeding all those kits.


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## Cargo (Dec 22, 2010)

You would actually be better off breeding them in groups so that you can foster out extra kits if needed.


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## dbunni (Dec 22, 2010)

First I would ask the question ... why do you need a litter a week?  That is more rabbit than a family can eat ... and a lot of production otherwise.  NZ & Calis often give 7-12 kits in a litter.  At that rate, you are producing over 416 rabbits a year (figuring 8 a litter).

Okay ... depending on your stock's size and growth rate, a NZ will be turned 100 days from breeding date ... or 70 days from birth...give or take.  If you have a doe that produces slower growning kits, the time will ber longer.  But we aim 100 days out for a kit no larger than 5# for the meat pens.  Best weight for slaughter is 5-6#... 6 is pushing it.  Diet is important also.  A kit raised on pellets alone will not put on the meat weight that a kit raised on a special meat diet.  Each breeder has their own mix.  Also, a good digital scale is your friend.  Don't depend on the bathroom one it will be off!

If you want to push your does ... and I know some people that do ... they breed at 4 weeks.  They back to back (2-3 breeding close) then give the doe 2 months off ... away from the kits.  So the next breeding would be when the last litter is 4 months old.  (weaning at 8 weeks ... 6 if rebred ... and then 2 months to gain back what is lost)  For this process the doe should be fed a good meat feed (not just pellets ... does not give back what she looses).

Hope this helps ... best of luck ...


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## DRAGGINZUZU (Dec 22, 2010)

Well Im new to this so I'm think 1 litter a week and at 8-10 weeks slaughter,sell or they go to auction. I know alot of people who eat rabbit so I dont think that  will be a problem. So you guys think 8 does breed 1 a week ( lets say sat) then let them wean at 4 weeks, let her rest for 2 then breed again? If I do that wont I need 10does? This is all just planning so nuthing is set in stone. right now Im trying to get my quail where I have a hatch every week. About 40-50 quail so they will be the same way every week a hatch will be ready for sell/slaughter/auction.
I guess I need to start looking for a meat diet...


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## dbunni (Dec 22, 2010)

Don't wean at 4 weeks ... let the doe decide that.  The longer the kits stay with the doe the better the chance of them having strong digestive tracts.  The death ratio starts at weaning in meat breeds.  So, if you wean at 4 weeks and the kits are not fully developed (have not transferred safely to pellets) your chance of loss is stronger than if you wean at 8 weeks and everybody is doing fine.  Understanding that you are just going to meat them.  But a rabbit with a weakend system will not gain meat weight either.  They are not fit for this.  I have seen it over and over.  Youth that are in it for the meat, wean early and loose a larger % of kits than those who just wait a little longer for the kits to finish developing.  Yes the pens will be alittle more crowded.  But if you are just doing it for meat, make bigger pens.  Many of us have brood pens ... which are up to twice the size of the standard pens.  For a NZ/Cal set ... 4' x 3' deep.  Gives everybody room to move.

Just a thought ... some of the best meat breeders (for meat only, no show here) ... run colonies.  They have a set of does and a buck in a large area (horse stall).  They let "mother nature" do the deciding and just cull out what they want.  We have a local that runs over 100 does for meat production in this manner.  It's a wild opperation, but the restaurants that buy from her are very happy with the meat!  From the outside you would think she has horses ... but inside it is definately a bunny hutch!  She has runs outside for them during the summer ... with doors she can open.  Did have to drop steel plates down to stop the changing of rooms.  Also she changes up the bucks every 4 months.

Good luck ...


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## tortoise (Dec 22, 2010)

If you're having problems with weaning deaths, they can be prevented by making poop "pudding" out of mom's cecotrophs. 

Different breeds/bloodlines will develop a little differently.  I put kits onto the grass the day their eyes open (day 10 - 12) and they start eating grass/hay then.  I have had good luck weaning between weeks 4 and 5.  I have sold rabbits at 6 weeks (which I later found is illegal in my state to sell before 8 weeks for any purpose besides experimental and agricultural purposes.)  Granted I won't sell a 6-week-old to just anyone.  The last 6-week one I sold to a veterinarian.

My fiance is a veterinarian, and when I was bottle-feeding a litter he thought I could wean on day 10 - 15.  None of them lived past day 6 - bottle-feeding is rarely successful.

I've been either lucky or successful; I had 1 weaning death last year.


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## dbunni (Dec 22, 2010)

tortoise said:
			
		

> Different breeds/bloodlines will develop a little differently.  I put kits onto the grass the day their eyes open (day 10 - 12) and they start eating grass/hay then.  I have had good luck weaning between weeks 4 and 5.  I have sold rabbits at 6 weeks (which I later found is illegal in my state to sell before 8 weeks for any purpose besides experimental and agricultural purposes.)  Granted I won't sell a 6-week-old to just anyone.  The last 6-week one I sold to a veterinarian.
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> My fiance is a veterinarian, and when I was bottle-feeding a litter he thought I could wean on day 10 - 15.  None of them lived past day 6 - bottle-feeding is rarely successful.
> 
> I've been either lucky or successful; I had 1 weaning death last year.


Selling before 8 weeks ... read ARBA rules.  They also discourage it for obvious reasons.

Bottle feeding ... been there done that ... only lost one of the 22 i have done over the past couple years.  Being a vet tech, just guess I'm lucky!  Have had a couple NZ does that did not like being mothers (breeders that we brought in) ... the breed is not the most stable in temperment!  They are long since gone, but the babies were fine.  But I don't use a bottle ... have a homemade trick!

We free feed both mother and litter.  Our kits have the opportunity to eat anything and everything mom does (pellet, seeds, hay and extras)... this way they are adjusted to the feed right from the beginning.  This has worked for ... um ... 30 years ... not wanting to change now!  I have a lower youth death rate then many angora breeders in my area.  And in NZ did not loose one kit this past breeding season.


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## Hooligan Farm (Dec 22, 2010)

dbunni said:
			
		

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What kind of seeds are you feeding yours?


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## dbunni (Dec 22, 2010)

The meats or the angoras?  Meat gets a special mix of rolled barley, oats, cardinal bird seed and Calf Mann.  Percentage of each depends on what I want from the animal.  had an awsome mentor many moons ago when I was in 4-h ... old meat man ...


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## Caprice_Acres (Dec 22, 2010)

I breed my does when their kits are 4 weeks old. The kits are weaned at 6 weeks, and they kindle when their last litter is 8 weeks old.  This gives the does a 2 week break between litters.  This is lower production than can be demanded of rabbits, but still keeps them in decent production.  

I've heard of people breeding back at 3 weeks post kindling as you suggest, but I wouldn't personally do it. I also know of people who colony raise, whose rabbits are bred back within days of kindling.  To each their own. 

If you had 7 rabbbits and bred one per week, then you'd be breeding them back at 3 weeks after kindling. Can it be done? Yes, and it may work very well for you. I'd suggest keeping 8 rabbits and breeding one per week.  Things may not go as planned, however, and you may end up with does that are poor mothers and you may loose kids.  Hopefully all goes as planned. When a litter is lost, the kits can be frozen and sold for snake food, keep in mind. 

My litters and moms are free-fed 18% pellet, and they get a handful of hay every day. If they waste lots, they get less - if they scarf down all the hay they get more the next feeding.


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## Hooligan Farm (Dec 22, 2010)

dbunni said:
			
		

> The meats or the angoras?  Meat gets a special mix of rolled barley, oats, cardinal bird seed and Calf Mann.  Percentage of each depends on what I want from the animal.  had an awsome mentor many moons ago when I was in 4-h ... old meat man ...


I wish I had a mentor :/ I'm going off good old fashion trial and error


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## dbunni (Dec 22, 2010)

Who did you get your original meat rabbits from?  You are located in S Ohio if I remember correctly.  there are several meat breeders down there... from several breeds.  Actually some of the best show/meat producers in the area.  Are you coming to the NYE show in Wilmington?


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## Hooligan Farm (Dec 22, 2010)

dbunni said:
			
		

> Who did you get your original meat rabbits from?  You are located in S Ohio if I remember correctly.  there are several meat breeders down there... from several breeds.  Actually some of the best show/meat producers in the area.  Are you coming to the NYE show in Wilmington?


I'm in NJ. I didn't get them from anybody special they're just for me and maybe sell off extras. I didn't find any breeders close to me


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## dbunni (Dec 22, 2010)

Check with the national clubs ... NZ or Calis ... the secretary should know of a nice person who could help you.  I have found that many good, oldtimers love to work with new individuals.


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## Hooligan Farm (Dec 22, 2010)

dbunni said:
			
		

> Check with the national clubs ... NZ or Calis ... the secretary should know of a nice person who could help you.  I have found that many good, oldtimers love to work with new individuals.


Will do, but around here I mention meat rabbits and people look at me cross eyed


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## tortoise (Dec 23, 2010)

Hooligan Farm said:
			
		

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Nah, a lot, a lot of rabbits breeders butcher.  It's the non rabbit breeders that freak out, lol.  I was really tentative getting into angora beause I didn't think other people would butcher cute fluffy bunnies.  I haven't met a breeder that doesn't ...


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## Hooligan Farm (Dec 23, 2010)

tortoise said:
			
		

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Thats good to know. Lol So I'm not the only evil bunny killer out there.


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## DianeS (Dec 23, 2010)

Good for me to know, too. I want angoras, and my very first angora is due in 10 days, but don't have the cage space for a bunch of individually housed males. I thought I was going to be the weird one, and instead I'm normal! Well, as normal as I can be...


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## dbunni (Dec 23, 2010)

Remember all of the angoras, except English, are commercial bodies and dual purpose animals...meat and wool!  Unwanted bucks are often invited to dinner.  But they are not a pack style animal.  That would ruin your coat.


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## DianeS (Dec 23, 2010)

dbunni said:
			
		

> But they are not a pack style animal.  That would ruin your coat.


I'm not familiar with the phrase "pack style animal" - would you explain, please?


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## dbunni (Dec 23, 2010)

Some breeds you can run together as a pack ... or a large unit as discussed earlier with the meat animals.  Most large farm animals are pack style or group animals.... in rabbits we also call them colonies.   With angoras this is hard to maintain since the coat becomes an issue.  We need the coat to be as pristine as possible as it grows to a usable length (3-5") for the spinning ... also the length would pick up any debris or just collect dirt & mud.  So they are hard to run in a pack or colony for effeciency purposes.


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