# 9 week old buckling with diarrhea - PICS!



## woodsie (Mar 28, 2013)

I moved this thread from the young kids section. 

I am calling on the goat experts for help with my new little buckling. Here's the background

I bought a beautiful little Nubian buckling a week ago and he has come down with diarrhea for the past 5 days. He was bouncing around and eating and pooping fine for the first 3 days and then came down with the runs. He is fluctuating...starts to firm up a bit then gets worse overnight/morning. He was a bottle baby (fed goats milk) and I was giving him cow's milk bottles as he was really looking for a bottle ( 1 a day, 5 oz), but have cut them out since the diarrhea has begun. I also have cut out all grain, so he is now on straight alfafa/grass hay 1st cut and he is still eating and gets up but have not seem him chew cud.

I have been giving doses of human acidophilus 3 times per day (2 capsules emptied into in a tsp and given orally) not all of it gets in his mouth but a descent amount does. I have given a tsp of pepto in the mornings when/if he looks very run down and has runny poop on the back of his legs/bum. He does seem to get a little better after the acidophilus but I didn't give a does before bed as he seemed to be getting better and this morning we had poop everywhere again and he seemed hunched up.

Poop is brown and ranges from pasty and/or liquid to starting to clump into berries but still wet. 

I have talked to the breeder and this is the info she gave me. He has not been vaccinated or wormed HOWEVER they were pulled from mom instantly and were raised indoors and then moved to a property were NO goats have been on previously (she moved)...so she figured no worm exposure (his sisters have no symptoms). Unlikely coccidiosis as there was no exposure except potentially at my house but he has not been here long enough to start showing symptoms, according to her...correct me if I am wrong. 

Any suggestions would be sure appreciated!

Cobie


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## babsbag (Mar 28, 2013)

I would treat for cocci regardless of his supposed non-exposure. It comes from somewhere to start with and the treatment won't hurt him, but not treating him will. You should see an improvement in just a few days if that is the problem.


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## woodsie (Mar 29, 2013)

I do appreciate the couple responses I got today and am taking will be doing some of the stronger measures tomorrow before the vet closes for the weekend. He gets somewhat better in the afternoon, perks up and stool firms up but still no nanny berries.  The troube in my neck of the woods is that we only have one large animal vet and they know little to nothing about goats with a min $150 bill. I would pay it if I knew it would help but I don't need something that will make it worse. 

He did pick up later this afternoon and stool firms up a bit but still no nanny berries.

I just did dewormed him and gave a bottle of watered down yoghurt. I guess we will see where we are at in the morning....I'll keep you posted.


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## Egg_Newton (Mar 29, 2013)

I would def treat for cocci. I had the same issues with my 8 week old buckling and the di-methox is what finally firmed him up. I also gave kaiolin and electrolites until I was absolutely sure he wasn't scouring anymore.


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 29, 2013)

I did post my response in the kids section.  You got it, right?


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## Roll farms (Mar 29, 2013)

I'd about guarantee it's coccidiosis.  15 yrs of baby goat raisin' behind that guess...

Coccidia is in almost all animals naturally- we fight it off / keep it in check.  Young and stressed animals haven't built up the immune response needed to do that, so they develop coccidiosis.

DiMethox.  40% injectable, but give it orally - 1 cc per 5# day 1, 1cc per 10# after that....Treat for  full 14 days and then repeat in 21 days, treating for 5 days.  I'd probably keep him on a full, every 21 days treat for 5 days schedule- until he's about 6 mos.  Cocci damages the intestines and can cause them to not absorb their nutritients / grow well.  

You should be able to take a fresh fecal sample in to about any vet, ask for a cocci float, and have it done for 25$ or less....fyi.


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## elevan (Mar 29, 2013)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I'd about guarantee it's coccidiosis.  15 yrs of baby goat raisin' behind that guess...
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> Coccidia is in almost all animals naturally- we fight it off / keep it in check.  Young and stressed animals haven't built up the immune response needed to do that, so they develop coccidiosis.
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x2


Some additional info for you:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-coccidia-goat


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## babsbag (Mar 29, 2013)

woodsie said:
			
		

> I just did dewormed him and gave a bottle of watered down yoghurt. I guess we will see where we are at in the morning....I'll keep you posted.


Personally I won't worm a sick animal unless I *KNOW* that they need to be wormed, especially a kid. He is far more likely to have cocci than he is to have barberpole or some other common worm, and the cocci is much more likely to make him scour. JMO

I use the DiMethox 40% but I have also used Corid in a pinch. The treatment won't hurt him so I would start ASAP. Not trying to scare you, but they can die from cocci.


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## alsea1 (Mar 29, 2013)

I would def. treat for cocci.
It is my understanding that there is cocci in the intestine of all animals. When the animal gets stressed it can bloom out of control.  So when your little goat was moved, his system got stressed and the number of cocci increased to the point he is now showing symptoms.  With an animal that young you don't have alot of time to get in there and medicate.  The longer the animal is sick the more damage to his intestinal walls is being done.  The scar tissue builds up in the intestine and makes it harder for the animal to absorb the nutrients it needs from the food it eats.  So the goat pulls thru and you are forever pouring feed to it but it just does not look as good as its herd mates.  Thats what I understand from the reading I have done anyway.  
I have begun a system of preventative treatment myself. As the kids and lambs get older the resistence they got from the colostrum is wearing thin. So I feed a medicated feed to get them thru to the point they have developed their own immunity to it.  It seems to be working so far.  I do this because I do not have the amount of land to rotate grazing to keep em on clean ground and our climate is wet and plenty warm enough for crude to thrive.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 29, 2013)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I'd about guarantee it's coccidiosis.  15 yrs of baby goat raisin' behind that guess...
> 
> Coccidia is in almost all animals naturally- we fight it off / keep it in check.  Young and stressed animals haven't built up the immune response needed to do that, so they develop coccidiosis.
> 
> ...


*
X 100.*


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## elevan (Mar 29, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

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True enough.  And coccidia is a protozoa not a worm, so de-wormers will not affect them.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 29, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I would treat for cocci regardless of his supposed non-exposure. It comes from somewhere to start with and the treatment won't hurt him, but not treating him will. You should see an improvement in just a few days if that is the problem.


Ditto that.  Sounds like cocci...


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## woodsie (Mar 29, 2013)

thanks all....still the same this morning, I gave a warm bottle with yoghurt and probiotics and a dose of pepto in the middle of the night in my housecoat, I didn't want him to dehydrate overnight. 

I have called the vet, closed for the stat today  but they are open on Sat so I hope they will be open tomorrow. He is still eating and loves his bottle so I keep giving plain yogurt, slippery elm and water. Still eating but still has poop the consistency and colour of medium brown pudding...poor guy. 

I will bring a sample in and get the meds, luckily he is a very robust boy but I need to get him in. I just hope we can get this sorted out in time. He's such a sweet boy and his mom milked 5liters a day so I have big plans for him. 

Keep praying he stays drinking and eating today until the vet opens tomorrow!


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## elevan (Mar 29, 2013)

Add unflavored gelatin to his bottle.  About half a packet with each bottle to help slow the scours.


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## elevan (Mar 29, 2013)

Also withhold milk for 24-48 hours and give electrolytes (gatorade if nothing else).


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## woodsie (Mar 29, 2013)

elevan said:
			
		

> Also withhold milk for 24-48 hours and give electrolytes (gatorade if nothing else).


So cut out the watered down yoghurt? and just give electrolytes with gelatin?


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## elevan (Mar 29, 2013)

woodsie said:
			
		

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Yogurt is fine...that's your probiotics but wait 24 hours for it and just give the electrolytes and gelatin then add back the yogurt during the next 24 hours.


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## woodsie (Mar 29, 2013)

elevan said:
			
		

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okay thanks for clarifying!


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 29, 2013)

*You can get cocci medicine from Jefferslivestock.com and overnight it.*


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## babsbag (Mar 29, 2013)

If you have a feed store near you you should be able to at least find Corid and maybe the DiMethox. I can find both in my area with no prescription needed. At the risk of sounding arrogant and mean, why are you waiting on the cocci treatment? I am going to say it again, it won't hurt him and it just may save his life. 

There are other reasons for scours that you might not be able to treat, but this you can. I could say this more strongly,but I won't, DON'T WAIT FOR THE VET.


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## woodsie (Mar 29, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> If you have a feed store near you you should be able to at least find Corid and maybe the DiMethox. I can find both in my area with no prescription needed. At the risk of sounding arrogant and mean, why are you waiting on the cocci treatment? I am going to say it again, it won't hurt him and it just may save his life.
> 
> There are other reasons for scours that you might not be able to treat, but this you can. I could say this more strongly,but I won't, DON'T WAIT FOR THE VET.


I am in BC Canada and feed stores are not allowed to sell any sort of medications, that also includes online for most things too. It is sooooo crazy frustrating....the feed stores have NOTHING but feed and certain wormers. I was at the feed store yesterday and they said too rich feed or go to vet, they have nothing!


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## woodsie (Mar 29, 2013)

I gave some B12, he's perked up and eating the hay well...mom is running to the store for electrolites and gelatin. 

I am in tears because it is so frustrating dealing with a system that does not simple life saving medications easily available. If I could not even get a copper supplement without having a vet appt....I could not even special order in coppasure through the feed stores. A lot of the time we cannot ship US meds to canada either. I hate our regulation red tape.


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## babsbag (Mar 29, 2013)

woodsie said:
			
		

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Ahhh, now the light comes on. Sorry if I sounded frustrated with you. You mean there is a place more regulated than USA? Amazing. Guess I should be glad for what I have. 

Someone gave this to me last year and it worked really well to stop scours. Where it says "I" that is my friend, not me. I have used it but never made it myself. 

1 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp clove
2 tsp ginger
2 tsp slippery elm (health food stores or Hoeggers Goat Supply)
1 tsp garlic ( I use liquid)
2 cups of water

Bring to slow simmer on low heat while stirring.
I then place in jar and cover and allow to cool for about 20 minutes.
I have been using it for
the past few years with awesome results.
Give 6-12 cc's orally several times a day.
I have also mixed it with scour halt with very good results

Since I already had some of this mixed up I then added:
cayenne and thyme. I used a teaspoon of each because my babies are in the 50-70 pound range, well, most of them, Figured it wouldn't hurt the little babies.

Hope you can get to a vet soon.


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## woodsie (Mar 29, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

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Thanks..I just cooked up a  batch and am waiting for it to cool. Going to call vet emerg line and see how that goes.


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## woodsie (Mar 29, 2013)

Called the on call vet and she said proabably did not even  need to bring in a fecal cause it wouldn't tell them accurately? Needs to see him and possibly hospitalize...I asked about Corid and she said well maybe but not too sure, might be too young. I'm not sure they see goats too often, most people are not impressed with their ability to diagnosis goats. I have an appt tomorrow at 9:30 so  hopefully I can get some meds.

He did not like the recipe and was grinding his teeth after I gave him it but I ran and grabbed a bottle of water and helped to wash it down and he stopped grinding his teeth then. Still waiting for mom to get home with electrolites and gelatin.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 29, 2013)

*Dimethox is the best medicine for treating cocci. Talk the vet into giving you that, even if they are being stubborn.*


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## elevan (Mar 29, 2013)

Your vet doesn't sound very well versed in goats and sounds like he wants to charge you a boatload of money.  I agree...try your best to just get them to give you the meds.  Cocci does indeed show up in a fecal float though it takes 10 minutes longer than a regular float does.

eta:  And it only takes 21 days to have a cocci bloom...that's 3 weeks...your goat is 3x that age, so definitely not too young for it.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 29, 2013)

I had someone tell me the juice from blackberries works great for scours, I don't know anything more about it than you are suppose to get fresh or frozen black berries and squeeze them.


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## woodsie (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanks everyone, so nice to be informed - I will not be leaving the vet tomorrow without the Dimethox! I gave him 10cc of the special brew twice now and two bottles of the electrolites with gelatin which he loved. Seems perky and in decent shape at the moment so hopefully we will make it through the night. Thanks again...I'll keep you posted with how he does!


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## woodsie (Mar 30, 2013)

It is the 5:30am here but I had to tell someone! I got up at 5am to give my sick buckling a bottle of electrolites and had the BEST surprise...nanny berries!!!! Burdock jumped up to get his bottle, drank it heartily then as I was checking his back end (the past couple nights he's had poop all down the back of his legs) he seemed dry - he turns around gives me a full view of his butt and out drop 4 or 5 perfectly formed and dry nanny berries!!! I couldn't be HAPPIER!!! 

I am assuming by some miracle that we are over the worst and will check in a couple hours to see if we are still all good before I cancel my vet appt. I don't want to start antibiotics if he's better and risk catching something else but if he still needs the meds I'll go get them. Am I wrong in assuming that if the scours has stopped and we have perfect poops we are in good shape and don't need the meds?

Thanks, BEST EASTER PRESENT EVER!


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## elevan (Mar 30, 2013)

Sounds like you've conquered the scours but now you need to conquer the underlying cause or they will be back.  Get that DiMethox.


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## woodsie (Mar 30, 2013)

Vet appt went well...she didn't know much about goats but listened and gave me the antibiotics, they don't carry exactly the same kind but discussed it with me and gave me the next closest oral antibiotic. He's had his first dose and we will keep it up for 5 days (2x day) plus I'll keep giving the electrolite bottles. He took the medication really well and we didn't even make a mess!

I think the slippery elm and spice mixture really did help with the diarrhea, in case anyone was interested I'd definitely recommend giving it a try...although he really didn't like it the first time. 

What a relief!


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## woodsie (Mar 30, 2013)

THANK YOU  again to everyone who chimed in with their invaluable advice! I wholeheartedly appreciate it soooo much!


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## babsbag (Mar 30, 2013)

Glad the visit went well. It is always nice when a vet or a doctor LISTENS to us. I hope that whatever she gave you works. Can you post the name of the drug?

Glad the spice stuff worked, I used it when they just got into too much new grass, worked perfectly. My friend used it when her children let the kids into a new pasture with fresh grass the day before a show. She was desparate and it worked for her too.


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## woodsie (Mar 31, 2013)

The antibiotic is called Neorease...an oral administered drug. The active ingredients per mL are:
Neomycin (as sulfate)...4.4mg
Sulfathiazole 26.4mg
Sulfamethazine 8.8 mg.

I noticed today the stool was softer again so I am going to continue giving him the spice mixture as it really seemed to help with the scouring. Well I am off to give him another electrolite bottle.


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## elevan (Mar 31, 2013)

woodsie said:
			
		

> The antibiotic is called Neorease...an oral administered drug. The active ingredients per mL are:
> Neomycin (as sulfate)...4.4mg
> Sulfathiazole 26.4mg
> Sulfamethazine 8.8 mg.
> ...


Looks like that would cover cocci or bacterial issues (neomycin).

Great job getting the vet to listen to you.

It can sometimes take a few days to get scours under control.


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## woodsie (Mar 31, 2013)

elevan said:
			
		

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Thanks Elevan for confirming this was the right medicine and how long it might take to get take effect. He seems to be getting much better. He just jumped up to meet me and get his evening meds. I'll took some pics today and I'll upload them tomorrow to see the boy you all helped save.


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## elevan (Apr 1, 2013)

I wish we had a good dual purpose med here in the States.

Can't wait to see pics


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## woodsie (Apr 1, 2013)

So here are the pics I took yesterday. He's not the my most preferred colouring, a red roan I believe, but his mom milks 5 litres a day with high fat and protein content....and I am REALLY looking forward to yummy cheese and ice cream! Plus he is the SWEETEST personality so we really have fallen head over heals for him and look forward to seeing his offspring! I is also a VERY big boy with very nice conformation (at least as far as I can tell).

He now has perfect poops and I believe I can breathe a sigh of relief and start sleeping again at night!


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## babsbag (Apr 1, 2013)

What a good looking boy. I am glad he is doing better and that you can get some sleep. Amazing how we enjoy perfect nanny berries. 

Hope he gives you some nice does down the line.


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## grainframer (Apr 6, 2013)

Glad everything worked out. I did see that you have hay on the ground in one of the pictures it might help you in the future if you do not ground feed as this is a major risk factor in contracting cocci.


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