# Scrapie tagging/tattooing question



## CoffeeCow (Sep 15, 2012)

We only have 2 goats, but we were thinking of moving and one of the requirements to move goats is to have them tagged or tattoo'd for scrapie. I got all the info and contacted the USDA, they sent me an information packet and a set of tags for the goats (Even had a tagging tool). But, seeing as how our goats are pets, I would rather tattoo them instead of piercing their ears. I emailed the USDA and they said it was fine to tattoo instead.
Now, here's my question.

My herd ID number is 9 characters long.. (I don't know if I should post it?) but it has 2 letters (NC) and 7 digits (including 3 0's)  While looking for a tattoo gun, I could only find single digit, 4 digit, and I found one 5 digit...  I don't want to keep the goat trapped and in pain while I reload the gun 3-4 times to tattoo it... Is there a gun that does 9 characters?  or what tattoo guns do you use?

Please help me out a little 

ooh, and my goats are pygmy/boer crosses, they are just starting to get their beards and should weigh 75-80lbs or so when fully grown.


----------



## CoffeeCow (Sep 15, 2012)

ooh, that is 9 characters on one ear, and the herd number on the other (4 digits)

So if I got a tattooer that did 4 characters, I would have to reset it 4 times per goat... Trying to avoid that  hehe


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 15, 2012)

The tags are less stressful- 1prick and you are done. Why mess with all the tattooing if you don't have to? Tattoos also fade, it's messy and IMO hurts a lot more.
Is there a reason you don't want to use the tags? Always helpful to hear what others think and do. 
I just got my tags in, I don't want to do it but it is the law so there ya go...


----------



## CoffeeCow (Sep 15, 2012)

As I said, they are pets, and we like petting their ears   It is purely a cosmetic reason, nothing more.


----------



## CoffeeCow (Sep 15, 2012)

here is what I have found so far, it has 5 digits, so that means 3 reloads per goat =/

http://hambydairysupply.com/xcart/product.php?productid=1816

On the plus side, it comes with 2 sets of numbers and a set of letters a-z
and has an ear release.

I would like to see what everyone else uses, and how many digits they hold.


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks, I'm with you .... I don't like how they look either! I am a little irritated that when I bought my first goats they were not tagged, but in my own ignorance I didn't know they should have been. I had wondered about it and tried to get info but it was really the people on BYH that gave me the info and the links. THANKS BYH's!
Still trying to figure out how to tag a Lamancha- USDA rep really couldn't tell me what to do...maybe tattooing the tail? 

I noticed you are in NC, me too!


----------



## CoffeeCow (Sep 15, 2012)

Yeah, we are in little Washington, pretty close to Greenville.

For a LaMancha, here is a way to tattoo the tail, and make a nifty green butted goat 

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/tattoo.htm


----------



## Fullhousefarm (Sep 19, 2012)

We are getting our LaMancha tattooed by hand in two weeks- we shall see how it goes. The farm we got our LaMancha from has someone that does it about twice a year for them and they look so much nicer. And, yes, in the tail web.

There is a chance that we will take our Boer wethers to the fair, and if we do, then will have him tattooed as well. He's just a pet, and with kids and such I don't want to risk his ear tag getting pulled out and/or stuck and ripping his ear.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Sep 19, 2012)

I don't beleive there are any with more than 5 tattoo spaces.  It certainly is up to  you to not want tags, but speaking from experience it is a very very painful experience for them. Especially as they get a little older.  You have to have a very very good grip on them. I am very good at holding them for all sorts of things, but I am giving you the heads up that they wouldn't act any worse if you were trying to cut a leg off.  No I am not joking. So First be sure that is what you want to do, 3 times on each goat. 

Get green ink in a tube, works the best and is easiest to read. 
Wear old clothes, because the ink will stain yoru clothes, but does wash off your skin easily. 

Be prepared to hold on tight, put a halter on them, and stand over them, with there head coming through your legs to the front of you,  Lift the front end of them up a little, so they don't have all four legs on the ground, Squeeze them very very tightly between your legs, just above your knees.  Wrap the halter's lead tightly around one hand and hold on very very tightly with both hands on their head. Have the tattoo person count down, so you know when to be ready.  

I do the same for taggin, but it last 1 second and is over, With tattooing, you have to really squeeze the tattooer, then either reload or have other tattoo handles sitting there already loaded. It is possible to put them on upside down, so the tattoo handle should be facing downwards when tattooing. When standing in front of them with the ear outward, you should be reading it just like words on the page, Left to right.  

Not trying to talk you out of it, just a heads up. 

We used to tattoo at just a couple weeks old, then we decided to do it right before they left the farm(3 to 6 months of age, so their years would be bigger and thinking the tattoo would last longer on them. We are very experienced with livestock and we were not prepared the fight that these 50 to 80lb kids were going to give us.   

Good luck on your decision.  We have to tattoo for registration, but we also put in USDA tagsa nd our goats also have individual identification numbers, so some of our goats have tattoos in both ears and a tag in both of their ears. Tagging is 1,000 times faster and easier.


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

I completely agree with everything you said. You said it well and everything is true. Tagging is MUCH easier and less painful. The only thing I differ on is that instead of holding them between your legs for tattooing, put them in a stand. That is best imo. But like she said, if you have to do one or the other tagging is the way to go.


----------



## CoffeeCow (Sep 19, 2012)

thanks for the info guys, you have been helpful. Luckily my wife is a vet, and I think we can get the job done with as little pain possible for them   I was mainly interested in the number of digits, and tattooers.  It kinda sucks that I have 9 digits in my farm ID number.. is everyone elses that long?


----------



## marlowmanor (Sep 19, 2012)

So how do you get the scrapies tags for your herd and what do you need to do the tagging? My goats are not tagged and I know my dad doesn't tag or tattoo his goats. I think I'm going to ask him about that when I see him this weekend.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Sep 19, 2012)

CoffeeCow said:
			
		

> thanks for the info guys, you have been helpful. Luckily my wife is a vet, and I think we can get the job done with as little pain possible for them   I was mainly interested in the number of digits, and tattooers.  It kinda sucks that I have 9 digits in my farm ID number.. is everyone elses that long?


yes, mine is that long.  

And I do put mine on a stand, They jump and jerk so bad that I have a hard time keeping their rear ends on the stand. Of course, we immediatly put them back on it. And it is a short lived memory for them. So not meaning to carry on about it. Just wanting to make sure you are prepared and organized.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Sep 19, 2012)

marlowmanor said:
			
		

> So how do you get the scrapies tags for your herd and what do you need to do the tagging? My goats are not tagged and I know my dad doesn't tag or tattoo his goats. I think I'm going to ask him about that when I see him this weekend.


Call this number and create a farm account and order your tags and tag pliers from them, It is free.   

1-866-USDA-TAG

http://www.eradicatescrapie.org/


----------



## CoffeeCow (Sep 19, 2012)

marlowmanor said:
			
		

> So how do you get the scrapies tags for your herd and what do you need to do the tagging? My goats are not tagged and I know my dad doesn't tag or tattoo his goats. I think I'm going to ask him about that when I see him this weekend.


I noticed that you are in NC (same as me) so I will give you the contact info I have.

Nc Department of Agriculture & Consumer services
Veterinary Division
1030 Mail Service Center
Raliegh, NC 27699-1030

The lady I spoke to was Leslie Kent, DVM, She is the Scrapie Program Coordinator. 
her Email is leslie.p.kent@aphis.usda.gov
Phone numbers:
Direct: 919-855-7715
Toll Free: 1-866-USDA-TAG (873-2824)

She has been very helpful, and pretty quick to answer  her e-mail.
They sent me an information packet, and about a week later, I got a box of tags and an applicator gun Via UPS.
Didn't cost me anything.

Here is a picture of the tagger (loaded with a tag)





Hope that helps you


----------



## marlowmanor (Sep 19, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> marlowmanor said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks 20kids. My dad doesn't tag or tattoo but I saw in the NC rules that it is for animals older than 12 months and that wethers and animals going straight to slaughter aren't required to have them. My dad sells kids only from his farm and they are always under that 12 months old limit. So do kids have to be tagged too? Or do you have to wait till they are over 12 months old to tag?


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Sep 19, 2012)

marlowmanor said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmmm,  As far as I know all animals leaving your farm that were born on your farm should have identification. Either a scrappie tag, or tattoo information directly related to registration papers, or they are straight on their way to the slaughter house.  not sure why it says older than 12 months, In VA it is all ages. And it is certainly all ages when crossing state borders.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Sep 19, 2012)

I think you are missreading it. 

For North Carolina it says: "All sheep and goats must have an official ear tag except wethers and animals less than 12 months of age that are moving directly to slaughter. Complete information is available by contacting:"


I read that as everyone needs to be tagged, including animals over 12 months of age going to slaughter, unless they are a wether going to slaughter. So Does over 12 months of age or intact bucks over 12 months of age going to slaughter also need to be tagged with scrappie tags.


EDited to add: They must be going directly too slaughter or Butcher, not just intended for slaughter or butchering 6 months from know. Another words if you are stopped on the road and you are just driving them to your house to feed out, they need to be scrappie tagged. Pretty much, they need to be scrappie tagged.  EVen our wethers going to the fair that will go to slaughter in 7 days after the fair starts have to have a scrappie tag.


----------



## marlowmanor (Sep 19, 2012)

CoffeeCow said:
			
		

> marlowmanor said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is very helpful. That is a scary looking gun!  When reading the laws it seems my wethers are okay to not have a tag but my doe will need one. Now I have to get DH to agree to this and figure out what kind of farm name and id we want.


----------



## marlowmanor (Sep 19, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> I think you are missreading it.
> 
> "All sheep and goats must have an official ear tag except wethers and animals less than 12 months of age that are moving directly to slaughter. Complete information is available by contacting:"
> 
> ...


Ok, after reading it again I see what you mean. So in other words all animals that leave the farm have to be tagged unless they are going straight to slaughter and are over 12 months of age and intact.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to explain it to my dad and DH. I know if my dad gets in on the program DH will be more likely to do it with our own herd. He tends to think that if my dad doesn't do it with his herd then it's not worth pursuing.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Sep 19, 2012)

marlowmanor said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is easy, tell him if they leave his farm they have to have a scrappie tag in their ear.   It is the law.

And it isn't 12 months of age and intact, it is 12 months of age and wethered(not intact).


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

Yes, they are supposed to be tagged if he is selling them off his farm. There are some ways to get around it with the special exemptions and all but it is easier to just tag them. The program is free and they send you everything for free too. You pay nothing!! It is very easy and that way you're not having to worry about the law.


----------



## marlowmanor (Sep 19, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> Yes, they are supposed to be tagged if he is selling them off his farm. There are some ways to get around it with the special exemptions and all but it is easier to just tag them. The program is free and they send you everything for free too. You pay nothing!! It is very easy and that way you're not having to worry about the law.


Guess I need to get a hold of the state about getting some tags for us. Does this apply only to where the goats were born? In other words could I go ahead and tag my adult goats with the tags I receive for my farm or do I have to go through a process of getting the right tag for where they were born at?


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

marlowmanor said:
			
		

> Straw Hat Kikos said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you know who to call? If not let me know.

As for your Q. They say you can tag them but keep detailed records stating it is not from your farm and who it is from. They say to keep records on goat for 5 years I believe. I would just leave them blank. When you breed them and sell the kids, that's who I would tag at a few weeks old. The tag has you farm # that if there is ever Scrapies then they can track it back to you and eradicate it. After several years of producing goats, or sheep, without Scrapie then you are declared 'Scrapie Free'. They do not come out and test for Scrapie unless your animals are suspect or ever come down with it, which is next to nothing really.


----------



## marlowmanor (Sep 19, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> marlowmanor said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok. Coffeecow listed the info for NC earlier as far as who to call and 20kids gave the link for the scrapies info page and I saved that info to my computer as well. So then I can leave my current trio untagged and just make sure to tag any offspring that I sell from them? Am I understanding that right?
I hope the OP doesn't think I am taking over their thread with my questions.  I'm just trying to get everything right. I can start a new thread if I need to.


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

Yes, they can be left untagged. After talking to the person on the phone I believe that they can be left untagged but if you wanted to you could tag them, just be sure to have in your records who they are from and that they are not from your farm, ect. If you sell them then you would have to tag them but record all of what I just said. So no, you don't need to but if you sell them then yes, you do.

Technically they should be tagged with you dad's farm # and she should be on the program too.


----------



## marlowmanor (Sep 19, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> Yes, they can be left untagged. After talking to the person on the phone I believe that they can be left untagged but if you wanted to you could tag them, just be sure to have in your records who they are from and that they are not from your farm, ect. If you sell them then you would have to tag them but record all of what I just said. So no, you don't need to but if you sell them then yes, you do.


Thank you definitely something to look into then. I think they will remain untagged since that is how we got them. I will be sure to get tags for any future offspring though and remember to make sure any new goat(s) brought in have tags on them. I will be sure to mention this law to my dad too.


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Sep 19, 2012)

Cool. Know what's weird? I have NEVER seen anyone that raises Nigerians and sells them, registered or unregistered, sell them with tags. We have Nigerians from 4 different lines and none have tags, even though they are supposed too. lol


----------



## marlowmanor (Sep 19, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> Cool. Know what's weird? I have NEVER seen anyone that raises Nigerians and sells them, registered or unregistered, sell them with tags. We have Nigerians from 4 different lines and none have tags, even though they are supposed too. lol


See...so maybe it's not all that odd that my dad doesn't tag. He sells unregistered BTW. Come to think of it I don't think he has ever tagged any of the goats he has raised for years. He's had pygmies, boers, fainters, and now back to the pygmies and nigerians.


----------

