# Issues getting pregnant?



## chubbydog811 (Jan 1, 2011)

I have a young doe, I want to say she will be 2 in July. This will be her first freshener.
I have been trying to get her bred for the past 3 months, and she just keeps coming back into heat. First time she was bred to a well seasoned buck, second and third time she was bred to my younger buck (I know both of these boys are good - I have 3 other confirmed pregnancies from them). 

What she does:
She will come into heat, tease them on the fence line, put her butt in their face. As soon as she is introduced to the buck, she gets "buckish" - head butts, makes that grunting noise that the bucks make, MOUNTS the buck. I have never had a doe like this before.


I am keeping track of all the dates, and plan on keeping her until a little while after she is supposed to kid just in case...

Any ideas why she might be doing this? Or is there a chance she is one of those that comes into standing heat each month even though she is bred?


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jan 1, 2011)

I'd say she has definitely hormonal issues which may very likely be caused by mineral deficiencies. Is the area where you live selenium or copper deficient? Those are usually the big two.


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## rebelINny (Jan 1, 2011)

I am very interested in this post as I have a new doe that I have seen get "bred"  three times this season by three different bucks and different months. She just came back into heat yesterday. The buck isn't here now and she is gonna just have to stay open cause he just went home the day before yesterday and I am NOT calling my friend again to borrow him! Are there actually does that come into standing heat every month even if they are bred?


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## chubbydog811 (Jan 1, 2011)

I think we are selenium deficient. Ive been trying to figure out the best way to give this to them...I've never really had problems before with it.


I have heard of a doe coming into standing heat every month, then kidding on her first date. I'm desperately hoping that is what this girl is doing...
I don't have money to waste on hormonal treatment for her (if it isn't as simple as a mineral deficiency), so it is either freezer camp, or sold as a pet, mainly because my mum doesn't like the idea of eating her after she has been a pet. I don't really care either way.

I know that if I sell her as a pet, there is no way I will get anywhere near my moneys worth (which really sucks, but I guess everyone takes a loss some time right?). If she had a few nice kids, I could deal, but really she hasn't done anything other than eat.

I can't keep a doe that can't be bred! 


As a side note, she is also looks very masculine. She is built like her father - very broad and bulky. She is not over weight, if anything, she is a little too skinny. Should add that she is a Nubian/Lamancha.


*edited to add - our boarder had to have hormonal treatment on their horse...That's the only reason I say I wouldn't want to go that way...If they even do that with goats!


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## jodief100 (Jan 1, 2011)

Mineral deficiencies can cause breeding issues. Make sure you are feeding a loose goat mineral that has copper and  selenium in it.  I offer it free choice. 

Copper is usually the culprit though selenium is also common.  Check for signs of copper deficiency, lighter colored spots on dark colored animals and fish tail, where the hair on the tails splits into two are some of the more obvious signs.  

If she is copper deficient I recommend copper bolusing her.  

You can give a goat who is selenium deficient a shot of Bo-Se which is a prescription.  There are some pastes and gels that are sold that are not as effective but will help.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jan 1, 2011)

Herbal hormone therapy is cheap and effective, but I think it's most likely to be mineral deficient.

I'm having the same problem with one of my girls. I'm working on copper and selenium but it is more difficult for me because I want to give it to them in a whole food form. If your not that way then I would go for Bo-Se (prescription only, I hear it's cheap though) and copper bolusing.


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## chubbydog811 (Jan 2, 2011)

Would I be able to get the copper stuff at a feed store? I looked up what it is, but wanted to see if I could get it locally before I order it.

Thanks for all the help!


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## chubbydog811 (Jan 2, 2011)

Also, for the selenium, would this be ok to give?

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/selenium-and-vitamin-e-gel-for-goats/camid/LIV/cp/0030913/cn/3309/


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 2, 2011)

chubbydog811 said:
			
		

> Would I be able to get the copper stuff at a feed store? I looked up what it is, but wanted to see if I could get it locally before I order it.
> 
> Thanks for all the help!


You will be able to get loose minerals...but I had to order copper bolus from Jeffers.  I give mine loose minerals free choice but they were showing signs of copper defincency...  

In NH we have alot of iron in our water,  which will interupt the proper absorbtion of copper.  So if you water has a bit of iron in it.  That could be the issue.  And that will definately effect conception issues.   

But her behavoir is normal. I have seen it before.  I have a doe that will do the same thing..but then gets bred no problem.  I always laugh and say she just  bossy and wants to show them how to get the job done!!     She's the queen and bosses everyone around!!!  

If you find bolus locally...please post..Id be interested as to where they have it...Thanks..and Good Luck!!!!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 2, 2011)

chubbydog811 said:
			
		

> Also, for the selenium, would this be ok to give?
> 
> http://www.jefferslivestock.com/selenium-and-vitamin-e-gel-for-goats/camid/LIV/cp/0030913/cn/3309/




Someone told me that TSC in Chichester carried alot more..so it might be worth giving them a call...As far as Jeffers goes...I would see if you can find other things you need...after $50.00 its free shipping..if not thier shipping or frieght can get pricey!!  FYI  Jeffers also carries copper bolus..its called Copasure...its labled for cattle...

Hope it helps for you!


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## chubbydog811 (Jan 2, 2011)

HA! Iron? Of course we don't have that!   Or maybe yes? lol Everything our water hits turns red! 
But yes, that makes sense the the iron would stop them from using something in their bodies...I had kind of wondered about that before!

I saw the copper bolus on Jeffers..That's the only reason I was looking at other things while I was there! Figured if I have to pay shipping, I may as well get some more things that I need! 
I was thinking about the mineral pail or the loose goat mineral that they have. Maybe more so the loose because then I can feed it with their grain (all the goats get tied for feeding)
I think I will take a trip to blue seal, valley dam, and maybe TSC if I have time to see if anyone carries the stuff, and who is cheaper...Really want to get this taken care of! Though I think breeding her this year is out of the question at this point, getting a little late!


Also, kind of off topic...
Is it tetanus toxoid, or antitoxin that you give them for long term protection??? I think it is antitoxin...But it is one of those things where I run my mind in circles (After confusing myself) and now I have no idea! I figured I may as well order my spring shots as well  Getting ready ahead of time, instead of last minute for once hehe

Thanks again


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 2, 2011)

CD-T Toxoid..is the vaccine for prevention. CD Antitoxin is treatment only and is not a preventative vaccine.

If you are giving them vaccines..I recomend having a epi pen avail for anaphalytic shock.  Ive never had it..but it does happen and you'll be happy you had it!!  

http://www.extension.org/pages/Goat_Vaccination_Program

This is UNH Ext. site...they have alot of great info!!

I vacinate my goats with CD-T and Rabies.  Thats all I vaccinate against.  I worm as needed only and give them loose minerals over a lick..they seem to get more out of the loose cuz its easier to get them to eat the loose...some of the lazy ones wont spend the time at the licks...so I use loose.  And I treat on a "as needed" basis for copper and selineum issues and any other issue that may arise.  But thankfully...my herd is healthy and happy!  WHEW!!! So far so good!!!

Its also nice that someone else is from NH...not to many of us here from NH!!   What kind of goats do you have??? Did you say??


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## Our7Wonders (Jan 2, 2011)

chubbydog811 said:
			
		

> Also, for the selenium, would this be ok to give?
> 
> http://www.jefferslivestock.com/selenium-and-vitamin-e-gel-for-goats/camid/LIV/cp/0030913/cn/3309/


The one from Jeffer's is the same one that Hoegger's carries and it's much lower in selenium than this one:

http://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/details/Selenium-E-Gel/516-1.html

5cc of this one is apparantly equivalent to a 3 ml of BoSe.  This is the one I'll be using in my girls.

Debbi


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## chubbydog811 (Jan 2, 2011)

I actually just got that from our feed store! With the dosage, it will last a long time too (80cc's, and you give 4-5cc per adult once a month)
Found a good loose goat mineral as well. 
I think I'm going to order the copper bolus tonight as well.


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## Our7Wonders (Jan 2, 2011)

Personally, I don't know if I'd go monthly on the selenium.  I'm treating it like Bo-Se and only using it 5 weeks and 3 weeks before kidding.  I'll likely use it just before breeding season as well.  

Perhaps someone who uses Bo-Se can let you know how they use it.  Some say that the gel is not as effective as Bo-Se - but I'm not sure if that's proven or speculation.  The lower dose gels for goats would definately not be as effective becasue they are such a very low dose compared to the other gel and the Bo-Se.  Since the gel I'm referring to matched the Bo-se dose it may be just as effective, but truely I don't know.   Personally I'm a little intimidated by selenium just because there's a very fine line between enough and overdose.  It might be fine to use monthly, I have no idea - I suppose it depends on just how defficient your area is and what your comfortable with - just be careful.

Debbi


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## chubbydog811 (Jan 2, 2011)

The directions said to use it monthly as a sole selenium intake...So I think I'm reconsidering and will just use it before kidding and before breeding as an extra boost like you said, and use the loose minerals the rest of the year...I don't want to kill them either! I gave her a dose of it today to try to get a head start on it.
The goat mineral said a goat would only need about a 3/5 of a  tablespoon a day...So that will definitely be worth it...For 9 goats, the bag will last a pretty long time! 

For when the copper bolus gets here: Are there any special things I should know about that? I have read here to only give 1/2 a cap. for a goat under 150#. Anything else?

Thanks again!


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## Our7Wonders (Jan 2, 2011)

There was a post on here in recent weeks on doing a copper bolus.  A couple members offered their advice on giving it - I haven't done it yet myself but it sounds easy peasy.  If you search copper bolus it should come up as a fairly recent thread.

HTH!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jan 2, 2011)

If the selenium your giving does not come with a good source of bit e then it will not be as effective. I was looking yesterday at how much bit e to se there is in BoSe and there is a lot more bit e.


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## Our7Wonders (Jan 2, 2011)

I _think_ there's actually quite a bit more E in the gel that I referenced above then there is in BoSe.  I say _think_ becuase iu and usp are usually equivelent - but not always.  There is 3 mg of selenium and 150 mg of vit E in 3 ml of BoSe.  I looked up the label info and it says 50 mg vit E (68 usp) per ml.  So if we assume usp is the same as iu in this instance then there is 204 usp/iu in the average 3ml does.  In a 5cc dose of the gel there is 3 mg of selenium and 500 iu of Vit E - more than double that of BoSe.  BUT, I don't know how to determine if isp and iu is the same thing so I guess I'm not saying much at all, am I?


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## chubbydog811 (Jan 8, 2011)

UGH!!!! My goat was in heat/bred again on the 1st of this month...So I go out to the goat house this afternoon, and which goat is in heat again? Aspen. Of course! 
I've been giving her a loose mineral that is high in copper. Also gave her the Selenium and Vit. E paste...
This is VERY frustrating! 

I haven't gotten to order the copper bolus yet...Got a huge vet bill for one of the horses, and am needing to wait. 

This sucks. That's all I have to say!


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 8, 2011)

chubbydog811 said:
			
		

> UGH!!!! My goat was in heat/bred again on the 1st of this month...So I go out to the goat house this afternoon, and which goat is in heat again? Aspen. Of course!
> I've been giving her a loose mineral that is high in copper. Also gave her the Selenium and Vit. E paste...
> This is VERY frustrating!
> 
> ...


Perhaps she's cystic?  Can you talk to a vet about it?


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## chubbydog811 (Jan 15, 2011)

Figured I would update:
I ended up selling this doe. Someone who just wanted a pet. 
Works out for both of us!




> *Emmetts Dairy wrote:*
> Its also nice that someone else is from NH...not to many of us here from NH!! smile  What kind of goats do you have??? Did you say??


Sorry that I missed this! I'm not sure how I did? Anyway...

I have 2 reg. Saanen bucks, and a Lamancha/Nubian buck (who will be a whether soon).
A reg. Saanen doe, saanen/alpine doe, lamancha/nubian doe, alpine/lamancha doeling, and a nubian doeling. 

I planning on getting 2-4 more reg. Saanen does in the spring, as well as retaining any nicer doe kids I get from my registered girl (her kids will be pure Saanen)  and the Saanen/Alpine and registering hers as experimental... if they are kind enough to give me doelings that is.


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