# Not eating well (Bottle babies)



## Gone Country (Jun 23, 2009)

Ok here's the story. Husbands grandfather has tons of goats (like 70+). One of them gave birth to twins Thursday of last week. This was her 3rd set of twins. The previous sets died. She has no milk so grandfather said if we wanted to try and bottle feed them we can. He said she'll be getting sold soon since this seems to happen with her. 

So I've been taking care of these kids since Friday night. It took me a couple of days to even get them on a bottle. I have no experience at all with farm animals.  None.  I'm basically using my skills as a small animal vet asst to aid in my raising these babies. I've raised newborn kittens and puppies before... but nothing with hooves. LOL 

My question is the boy doesn't seem to have much of an appetite. He will eat some. But not as vigorously as the girl. Give her the bottle and she just goes to town on that thing.. sucking slurpy noises and all. Pretty darn cute too. hehe  Not him though. He will suck on the nipple some, but is rather slow about eating. I've tried using whole milk (as suggested by grandfather) and even tried the replacement stuff to see if he had a preference. Tried different types of nipples as well. 

Is this something I should be concerned about? Is there anything I can do to maybe help trigger a better appetite? Any and all suggestions appreciated!


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## haviris (Jun 24, 2009)

To be honest it's hard to say, it could be something, or it could just be him. If he was older and had been eating well til now I'd say it's probably a bad sign, but I've had some that were just slower eaters.


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## username taken (Jun 24, 2009)

my first question is, since the doe had no milk and it took you a few days to get them drinking well, did they get any colostrum?

I dont want to alarm you but being newborn kids, they should not have taken several days to establish on the bottle, they should have taken to it straight away, unless there was something wrong with them. I'd hazard a guess they were very weak. 

It sounds like your little boy is still very weak. 

How much is he taking? Per feed, how many feeds a day, how much milk total? Also how much does he weigh, and what breed is he? To weigh him, weigh yourself first on the bathroom scales, and then weigh yourself holding him, the difference is his weight. I need to know these figures to tell whether he is just a fiddly sucker, or if he is weak and needing intervention. 

What I would do is keep offering him the feeds, from the nipple that he will suck a little on, stick to the one milk (replacer or whole, either is fine), and load him up with probiotics. A bit of glucose or honey wont go astray either. 

I can give more input when you answer the questions above


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## Roll farms (Jun 24, 2009)

A shot of B vitamin might help as well....it's an appetite stimulant.


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## Gone Country (Jun 24, 2009)

_my first question is, since the doe had no milk and it took you a few days to get them drinking well, did they get any colostrum?_

-I'm not really sure. I think they may have gotten some. Grandma was saying how they would nurse some in the morning for the first couple days, but that's it. Rest of the day, they wouldn't. 

_I dont want to alarm you but being newborn kids, they should not have taken several days to establish on the bottle, they should have taken to it straight away, unless there was something wrong with them. I'd hazard a guess they were very weak._

-I figured as much. Especially knowing the history behind the previous twins that were born and how none of them made it. Or it was my lack of know-how since I've never dealt with animals other than puppies/kittens when it comes to bottle feeding. Honestly, my husband and gradfather are suprised they are still alive. At first, they were both convinced neither would make it, but I'm a very persistent person. I don't give up easily. The girl is doing pretty well, atleast I do think so myself. She eats good. Her activity level seems to be good. She gets these random playful spurts (do goats play? lol) where she will hop around and bounce all over the pen and even try climbing on me.

_How much is he taking? Per feed, how many feeds a day, how much milk total? Also how much does he weigh, and what breed is he? _

- I feed with a 1 liter plastic water bottle and he eats about 1/4 of it per feeding. I feed them 4 times a day so he eats about 1 cup total a day. I wish I had a scale here to weigh but I don't so unsure of his weight. Comparing him to my 10lb Pomeranian.. he weighs less that that. My best guesstimate would be probably 5-6lbs. As for breed..  I don't know. I believe someone said he might be a boer.

_What I would do is keep offering him the feeds, from the nipple that he will suck a little on, stick to the one milk (replacer or whole, either is fine), and load him up with probiotics. A bit of glucose or honey wont go astray either._

- Honey huh? I have tons of that in my pantry. I know that's a trick for for low blood sugar, but didn't even think it would be used with goats. Interesting. I'll ask hubby's grandfather about the probiotics you mentioned.

Thanks a ton!!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 24, 2009)

If he doesn't have any, may I suggest Probios. Or if you want to go the more natural route, LIVE CULTURED yogurt. 
Here is what the Probios looks like and the dose info.











I use it with the cattle and chickens and have really good results.


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## Gone Country (Jun 24, 2009)

oh thanks Farmer Kitty! I assume this stuff can be bought at a feed store right?


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 24, 2009)

Gone Country said:
			
		

> oh thanks Farmer Kitty! I assume this stuff can be bought at a feed store right?


Yes, feed stores, feed mills, farm supply stores.


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## Michelle1017 (Jun 24, 2009)

I am new to the goat world too, but I will tell you what I did in that situation. My first boer baby (Bella) I brought home in March with no idea how to raise her. She took right to the bottle and has become a healthy weaned "teen". In May a friend of mine who raises goats (I met her when she helped me with Bella) called me. One of her boers had quads. The littlest one was stillborn and the next smallest wasn't getting anything to eat. When I arrived she was a few hours old and weighed around 2 1/2 pounds. I took her home and she took the colostrum just fine that night. The next day she wouldn't take a thing. I did everything I could think of and finally dropper fed her all day long. The next morning she took her bottle again like a pro! It was almost like she just wanted to take the day off! Bailey turned a month old last week and is now 11 pounds. She is bigger than the 2 sisters she left behind! (Bella is 35 pounds at 3 months old) So, maybe dropper feed for a while until he eats better, although that doesn't sound too drastic. Bailey started at less than a cup a day too for about a week. Good Luck! I had people thinking she wouldn't make it either, but I was a determined Mama!


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## norcal (Jun 24, 2009)

Sorry to butt in.   How do you give your chickens ProBios FarmerKitty?
Do you mix it w/ food?   I got some, but it's a different brand, it's yellow (will have to go find it).


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 24, 2009)

norcal said:
			
		

> Sorry to butt in.   How do you give your chickens ProBios FarmerKitty?
> Do you mix it w/ food?   I got some, but it's a different brand, it's yellow (will have to go find it).


If it's the powdered kind, mix it in their water.


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## username taken (Jun 24, 2009)

Really, really good that she is bouncing - that is what those random playful spurts are - that is goat happiness! And its what healthy kids do best - bouncing around like nutcases. So that is GOOD!

Is the little boy bouncing much?

Now, as for how much milk he is taking - that is enough for him to live on. If your weight guesstimate is right, he is quite small for a boer, so that may indeed be all he can manage. It is perfectly fine for now, and as he grows he will take more. The best thing to do is watch his flanks - you want them to be straight or slightly curved outwards when he is finished drinking - hugely bulging means too much milk, and sunken in means too little milk. Also, if you pinch up the skin over his ribs, if it oozes back into position pretty quickly you are getting enough liquid into him, if it stays up or goes back very slowly he is dehydrated. 

Yep, little bit of honey in the bottle will do him good, also if you cant find the probiotics then just use a dollop of yoghurt in the bottle - does the same trick!

What I would suggest - to anyone who has a bottle baby - is to purchase a cheap set of bathroom scales - get them for $15 - 20 here. I strongly suggest weighing the kid/lamb (calves are a little more difficult lol) every week - this is invaluable for making sure the kid is growing, you can tell if something is wrong before they become symptomatic. 

And finally - you seem like a pretty grounded person. I want to say that the buck kid does sound just like he is young and small and still trying to figure things out ... BUT I will also say that I have had some that have been fiddly on the teat, and for no reason whatsoever they die at 3 days, or 3 weeks roughly, and the way I figure it there was just something wrong with that kid. So I would gently say to you just to keep that possibility in the back of your mind. As a possibility only, its more likely he's just not figured it out yet. 

Good luck with them (and pictures are always good!)


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## mully (Jun 24, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

> norcal said:
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How often do you make it available for your chickens?


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 24, 2009)

mully said:
			
		

> Farmer Kitty said:
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It varies. I also give ACV and you can't give vitamins or probiotics at the same time. So I tend to rotate through them and a batch of just plain water.


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## Gone Country (Jun 24, 2009)

> Is the little boy bouncing much?


He wasn't at first. But today I caught him doing some bouncing. He and the girl were hopping around and looked like they were trying to play with each other. Something else I was meaning to ask and curious about. When I'm feeding the boy, she starts doing her bouncing around all over the pen. And usually pounces me, and bouncing all around me. I guess that does mean shes happy and I guess learning I'm not a bad thing to be around?



> The best thing to do is watch his flanks - you want them to be straight or slightly curved outwards when he is finished drinking - hugely bulging means too much milk, and sunken in means too little milk. Also, if you pinch up the skin over his ribs, if it oozes back into position pretty quickly you are getting enough liquid into him, if it stays up or goes back very slowly he is dehydrated.


That's what I've been doing. I believe I read it here about making sure there's no tummy bulge but not sunken in either. And wow, I didn't know you could do that trick on goats to check for dehydration! Guess there's tons of similar things between farm critters and small animals afterall. Maybe I won't fail at raising them! LOL




> And finally - you seem like a pretty grounded person. I want to say that the buck kid does sound just like he is young and small and still trying to figure things out ... BUT I will also say that I have had some that have been fiddly on the teat, and for no reason whatsoever they die at 3 days, or 3 weeks roughly, and the way I figure it there was just something wrong with that kid. So I would gently say to you just to keep that possibility in the back of your mind. As a possibility only, its more likely he's just not figured it out yet.


I know all too well how fast young animals can just fade. Seen it many times when I worked gave shift at the animal ER.  Sometimes, no matter how hard you try to save them, nothing works. Just part of Mother Natures way of doing things to keep things in balance. Sad, but sometimes Mother Nature knows best.

Oh yeah, since I live in Texas and it gets really hot here (today was high of 105 and tomorrow about 102. Yuck!).. is there anything I should be doing to ensure the kids don't get too hot or anything? I have their pen set up so it gets shade all day from a tree, and keep fresh water available at all times. Not really sure if I'm suppose be doing anything else to keep them from getting over heated.


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## username taken (Jun 25, 2009)

honestly, you sound like you are doing a fantastic job  keep it up!

With the heat, I would just watch them for dehydration, also keep water available for them at all times. If they start panting or the skin pulling trick shows that they are dehydrated, you may need to offer water in a bottle, but I try to avoid doing that AT ALL COSTS as they need to learn to drink water from a bucket and giving it by bottle tends to make them not learn. 

Yep, goatbabies bounce all over their mums, they surf on her back and on her belly when she is sitting down, so thats why the little girl bounces on you.


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## Gone Country (Jun 25, 2009)

Ok so nothing really needs to be done that I'm not already doing. It just seems so nasty hot out there, and thinking of those poor little things in the heat drives me nuts. I won't even let my dogs spend more than 10 min outside in these temps.  Wonder if I could convince my husband to let me bring them in the house...hmmm...  

I guess my next obstable will be horns. Keep'em or get them removed. About half of grandfathers goats have horns, and the others don't. When these babies are old enough, they will go back to his herd where they have a huge pasture to roam around in during the day. I'll have to ask him if he wants horns or not. Luckily grandfather said he'd make the boy a wether when it's time, so not something I need worry about. *phew*

I'll get some new pictures this morning. They are just so cute! I'm suprised my children (son 9, daughter 14) haven't tried naming them yet.


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## username taken (Jun 25, 2009)

unless they are a milking breed that is going to be shown, or boer market wethers for 4-H, no reason to dehorn them really


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## Gone Country (Jun 25, 2009)

Yay!! He actually ate better this morning!!  He drank 1/2 cup..instead of his norm of 1/4 cup. He actually showed interest in eating too. Usually when I'm feeding her, he just sorta stands there and watches. This morning he actually jumped in my lap like he was thinking 'me next! me next!' 

Heres a few pics too.

Being all cute before they realized I had a bottle in my hand...






The Doeling





In this pic you can see how much smaller he is compared to her.





Me trying to feed him while she decided I needed pounced on. :/


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## username taken (Jun 25, 2009)

oh man oh man oh man

they are just too cute! definitely boer cross, with a hint of dairy, spanish, kiko, something to that effect

oh yeah, he is tiny! but in that pic you can see what I mean about the sides - they are sunken in, in this pic. thats a good example of what I'm talking about


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## Gone Country (Jun 25, 2009)

username taken said:
			
		

> oh man oh man oh man
> 
> they are just too cute! definitely boer cross, with a hint of dairy, spanish, kiko, something to that effect
> 
> oh yeah, he is tiny! but in that pic you can see what I mean about the sides - they are sunken in, in this pic. thats a good example of what I'm talking about


Yeah, those pics were taken before they ate anything. After he ate this morning, he had a nice flat side. No sinking side or bulging.


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## username taken (Jun 25, 2009)

excellent!

I just want to say again, you are doing a brilliant job!

keep us updated ...


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## lilhill (Jun 25, 2009)

They are adorable!  And, you really are doing an excellent job with them.


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## helmstead (Jun 25, 2009)

They are ADORABLE!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 25, 2009)




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## Gone Country (Jun 25, 2009)

Ok finally got a chance to go to the feed store. I didn't see anything called Probios, but I did find Probiotic Powder.. Is this the right stuff? Says to feed 2.5g/head/day.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 25, 2009)

Looks good to me.


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## username taken (Jun 25, 2009)

yup looks good


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## farmin'chick (Jun 26, 2009)

Looks like you've got them started really well!  What I've learned I've learned through terror, trial, and error having started with a very sick herd of Boers that we've worked hard to pull through their first 6 months with us.  

* I had the vet teach me to tube feed.  This will help if you've got one that won't nurse, that quits nursing, or that isn't getting enough nutrition.

* In our part of the country, we have a selenium soil deficiency.  The vet recommends a shot of Vitamin E and Selenium, especially for the weak ones.

* I bought baby bottles and one preemie bottle, and a selection of nipples.  The preemie nipple is smaller and straighter -- none of my goats will take the lambing nipples, so baby bottles it is.  Also, the vet suggests taking a scissors and clipping the hole in the nipple to make it produce more milk faster with less sucking effort.  Some of the tiny goats prefer the preemie nipple.

* The last one I raised had nursed on the mom, and HATED the taste of milk replacer.  I finally got  some commercial goats milk and mixed it with cows milk, and eventually got her on just the cows milk.  She's weaned now, and 35 lbs at 8 weeks.

Our problems included a herd that was sick, a number of does that were bred that shouldn't have been, because of condition, age, mastitis, etc. so we had a lot of babies that needed to be rescued as well as a lot of still births, etc....

We think we've got everything under better control now, and are looking forward to a better year.  Best success to you and your cuddly babies.     Oh, yeah -- the milk replacer hater was also totally not happy with the bottle, having started on her mom who ran out of milk...so when she finally latched on to my earlobe (!) I sneaked the bottle up under my chin and she took it.  She still likes to cuddle her head up under my chin...(smiles)


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## Gone Country (Jun 26, 2009)

I'm not sure if it was me finally learning or the little boy, but he's actually eating a lot better now. I just started using the Priobiotics yesterday afternoon so not sure if that has anything to do with it. Last several feedings, he's been eating about 3/4 cup (per feeding) of replacer milk compared to his 1/4cup in the beginning. The girl is up to 1 and 1/2 cups per feeding. I also found out that he has to lay in my lap in order to eat. Security/Comfort thing I guess? She will stand up and eat and I don't even have to hold her anymore. 

He's also dancing around and playing more than before. I put in a couple square concrete block things (not too tall for injury of course) and they've been having a blast jumping on it and playing on it. Hubby says when they get to dancing around, it looks like they are having seizures in mid-air - legs going every which direction, body twisting this way and that way.


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## jojo@rolling acres farm (Jun 26, 2009)

All of my babies love to "tap-dance" on plywood...or anything really. Enjoy...they really are fun to watch and have around.Love it when they run & hop sideways...so cute!

I'm so glad your babies are doing fine and the little boy is so much better - keep up the good work! You've done well.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 26, 2009)

Glad they are doing so well. Yes, the probiotics have had long enough to start working but, you and he may have just gotten into the nitch of things better too!


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## Gone Country (Jun 28, 2009)

Little update... Both are doing well and eating good.  

Here's a couple pics I took tonight of them exploring my backyard. 












I found out little baby goats can scream bloody murder. I went to take just the girl out of her pen and swap after a little bit (figure easier to babysit one at a time). No way. They both started in this horrible, heartbreaking scream when I took her out. Ooookkkayy.. Do NOT separate the twins. LOL


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 28, 2009)

They are cute! Glad they are doing well!


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## username taken (Jun 29, 2009)

yep, and they make lots of very very human like noises too!

lol they are just so cute! Thanks heaps for the update


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## Gone Country (Jul 18, 2009)

Update! The twins are now 4.5wks old and doing so much better and eating really good. Even nibbling on leaves now. They still don't seem to be all that into the sweet feed though. Oh and their little horns are starting to come in. They have little nubbins poking out now.

Here's a few pics to show off their cuteness


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## lilhill (Jul 18, 2009)

They are really adorable!  As for the screaming, I've had a neighbor call me and ask me if everything was okay.  She'd heard this terrible screaming coming from up here.  Had to laugh, but the screaming was coming from my doe, Ruby Tuesday, who was in raging heat.  No guessing about this girl when she's cycling.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 18, 2009)

They sure are looking good! Good job!


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## username taken (Jul 19, 2009)

oh! oh! the cuteness!


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