# Dog Help ASAP!!!



## farmgirl68 (Mar 28, 2011)

Advice needed: We adopted a Daschund (possibly mix breed) 7 days ago. The dog does not get along with our other dog (he growls viciously at him). My Special Needs daughter loves the dog deeply, her health and behavior/life have changed For THE BETTER the past 7 days. She is more social, goes walking outside 2 hrs a day and is not depressed lately.



The dog however started nipping and biting one of the adult males in our home for no reason and as I said he does not like my other dog.



The dog was in a foster home, after they found the dog wandering the streets.

They had no info to give us.

What would you do?

I'm torn between the safety of my family and the benefits the dog is having with my daughter.

I appreciate your advice.


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## jodief100 (Mar 28, 2011)

The dog is a new situation and has not yet learned the appropriate behavior.  Teach the dog the proper way to behave with the standard discipline for bad behavior and rewards for good behavior.

The dog needs time and training.  Just make sure the dog is well supervised in the mean time.


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## Okie Amazon (Mar 28, 2011)

How old and what breed and sex is your original dog?  What is the age of the newcomer?


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## freemotion (Mar 28, 2011)

Watch as many episodes of The Dog Whisperer as you can and apply what you learn!  So much good info there!  I love Cesar Milan.  I find his methods work very quickly for me and I've taught both my dogs to leave the hens alone, even unsupervised (not right away, though).  He also has lots of tips on getting two dogs in the same pack to get along.


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## terrilhb (Mar 28, 2011)

I agree with you freemotion. He has such awesome advice. I have 4 dogs and use his with mine.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Mar 28, 2011)

terrilhb said:
			
		

> I agree with you freemotion. He has such awesome advice. I have 4 dogs and use his with mine.


X3

we dont allow ANY dog aggression and they all know that we are the Boss Dogs. 

the thing about little dogs is that folks let them get away with a lot of naughty behavior because they are little and cute... until someone get bitten. 

the "no reason" is about dominance. remember dogs dont have a sense of what is "fair" - they just want to be top dog.

that being said... not everyone has the temperament to deal with difficult dogs - and thats ok. just realize when you are being ruled by the dog - then its time to put the safety of your family first.

also check with AL and/or SavingDogs over on SufficientSelf - they knows a lot about dogs. 

good luck!


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## farmgirl68 (Mar 28, 2011)

We have had the dog 6 days and apparently he has had 3 homes in the past 2 months.

He only seems to go after the guy in our home, he seems ok with me , my daughter and most of the time hubby.

Today he bite the guys toes/ankle for no reason. The dog was laying on the floor by the couch, and I was on the couch watching tv. The guy came near us to tell me something and the dog bite him. 

The day before the same guy, came in the front door and the dog tried to nip him.

Other times the dog goes near him with no issue. The guy prior to this gave the dog treats, playe with him etc.


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## freemotion (Mar 28, 2011)

Cesar Milan.  He'd have lots to say about this!  Really!  I've watched so many episodes where he deals with this exact same thing, with minor variations from client to client.  But the same principles apply.  

First of all, get out there and walk this dog until her tongue is hanging out, a couple of times a day.

Second, insist that she be where YOU say she can be at all times.  No exceptions.  Do not give her any affection in any form until she is #1, tired from exercise, and #2, behaving herself from fair discipline using calm, assertive energy.

That is far too small of a nutshell, but find Cesar, he WILL help you, even look on Hulu or youtube or on some website somewhere.  It is out there.  Full episodes are best, but I learned about dogs and chickens in about five minutes and taught my dog in about as much time.


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## Okie Amazon (Mar 29, 2011)

CM would probably scruff this dog up by the neck and shake the snot out him (off camera of course).  Only because he's too small to kick.


Go to youtube and search for CM kicking dogs, you'll get an eyeful.

This dog is waaay too big for his britches and he needs to start the NILIF program yesterday. Nothing In Life Is Free.  Googfle it and you'll tons of info on how to proceed.  


No food without doing some obedience for it.   No petting or attention or affection of any kind by anybody unless he works for it!  No getting up on the couch or bed. I would recommend tethering him. This means that he is attached to you all the time he's out of his crate, (which he should have if you don't have one).  Anytime he displays obnoxious behavior, you have the means to correct him INSTANTLY. Better yet if you can read him pretty well and correct while he's just _thinking_ of being obnoxious, even better.   Dachsies can be real little emperors, which is probably why he's been re-homed repeatedly.


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## freemotion (Mar 29, 2011)

I did the search and didn't get an eyeful.  I liked this response, though:  http://www.unleashed.org.au/community/forum/topic.php?t=4660

Cesar has saved hundreds, probably thousands of large aggressive dogs that otherwise would have been put down.  Giving cookies is not an appropriate training method for every dog.

You have to look at things from an animal's point of view, not a human's.  Case in point:  My first rooster, who became so aggressive we had to have him "put down."  He injured me twice, actually putting me on crutches when he spurred a tendon in my knee.  

I've never had a mean rooster since.  I've had up to six large roosters at a time in my free-ranging flock (more in the meatie pen) and most of them were the offspring of the above roo.  None were aggressive towards me.

I learned how to deal with them when I observed that the roosters, even the mean one, gave the goats plenty of room, even the youngsters.  Without exception, and without question.  So I observed how the goats interacted with the roosters.

When a rooster came into their space, they would turn and butt him with their head or horns.  Always.  They didn't wait for misbehavior, they just told the roo on no uncertain terms that he was in their space uninvited and he was to smarten up.

I started doing the same, right from day one (as soon as they started crowing.)  I used my foot.  Oh, NO, she's kicking a chicken!  Call the cops!  I call it rooster soccer.  No roosters were harmed in the making of these tame, safe roosters.  They are too smart and fast to ever really get kicked after the first contact, and it is not contact that injures them....it just "makes 'em fly" in a direction that they did not plan on flying.  Just like the goats, only I actually try not to harm them at all.  The goats don't care.

These same goats will let the hens climb all over them, so they do allow polite chickens to enter their space.

This was written all in defense of what some people think is kicking or shaking the snot out of a dog.  If he indeed did this, he did it to save the dog's life, and I applaud him.  The leader of a pack of wild dogs would do far worse to an insubordinate dog within the pack.

ETA:  In case someone actually reads the rooster story and makes the leap that I am advocating or suggesting that the op start kicking her dachshund, well, hmmmm.......


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## carolinagirl (Mar 29, 2011)

Exactly!  Dogs need to be totally and 100% submissive to all members of the family.  Little dogs often think THEY are the pack leader because they are so cute...they are allowed to do whaever they want.  Little dogs can become really dangerous.  My daughter started using CMs methods with her two dogs about a month ago.  She has a female pit bull and a female long coated chihuahua.  Now, both dogs walk quietly and peacefully on a leash, wait politly for her to give them their dinner and they obey her.  They are both happier and more relaxed now because they are letting her be in charge.  Although some of CMs methods may look a little harsh, they obviously work.  He has saved many dogs that were headed for the gas chamber.  Look at his pack.  He has MANY large agressive dogs including former fighting dogs living together in harmony because they all realize that HE is the leader.  It just amazes me.


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## Okie Amazon (Mar 29, 2011)

Oh it's not that his methods are too harsh, it's that he gives people the _impression_ that all this training is done in 15 minutes with no compulsion.

Another bone I have with CM is that not everyone has the "pack leader" demeanor. Some of his training methods tried on a hard, no-nonsense, aggressive dog by the un-prepared owner are going to land somebody with facial reconstruction surgery.  

There is an intangible "something" that good trainers have that cannot be replicated. It can be taught to some people, but by and large, you either have it or you don't.   Timing of corrections/rewards is critical and some people just don't ever get it!


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## carolinagirl (Mar 29, 2011)

Okie Amazon said:
			
		

> Oh it's not that his methods are too harsh, it's that he gives people the _impression_ that all this training is done in 15 minutes with no compulsion.
> 
> Another bone I have with CM is that not everyone has the "pack leader" demeanor. Some of his training methods tried on a hard, no-nonsense, aggressive dog by the un-prepared owner are going to land somebody with facial reconstruction surgery.
> 
> There is an intangible "something" that good trainers have that cannot be replicated. It can be taught to some people, but by and large, you either have it or you don't.   Timing of corrections/rewards is critical and some people just don't ever get it!


well, you are right about that.  He makes it look like it is VERY easy and something that can be accomplished in a few minutes.  Maybe it does work that fast for him, but the average person who does things exactly right is still going to have to work at it consistently in order to get results.  One of the biggest problems people have with training any animal is being consistant.  If a dog knows you are going to tell him 6 times to do something, why should he listen the first time?


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## farmgirl68 (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks everyone!!!

The issue is with the male person in my home getting bit/nipped on the ankle and toes, for NO Reason.

He appears fine with my daughter and husband and me.

I get an occassional snarl or low growl, but I tell him no and he is fine.


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## freemotion (Mar 29, 2011)

Okie Amazon, if you get a chance to watch a few episodes, you will see that your points are made clear.  It is not in 15 minutes and then he leaves and it is done.  He follows up.  Some owners end up relinquishing their dog to him because they cannot be the leader that the dog needs.  I've seen him trade a balanced dog from his pack with an aggressive, red zone, dangerous dog from a client.  Then he takes the time to rehabilitate the dog and keeps it unless he can place it.

farmgirl68, your situation has been filmed many times on his show.  Usually the person that the dog likes is doing something unconsciously that nurtures the bad behavior of the dog towards the other person in the household.  And usually the person that the dog picks on is also encouraging the behavior in an unconscious way.  Really, you need to watch a few episodes.  Your library probably has them or can get them for you.  If nothing else, they are fun to watch!


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## elevan (Mar 29, 2011)

We had similar problems with my Basenji with certain people.

This is what we did:

When he starts to growl...the person he growls at needs to "pounce" and roll him over onto his back (this is forced submission).  Then use their hand like a jaw (curled up like a claw) and "bite" the dog on the underside of the neck with the jawed hand (this represents another dog biting the neck to force submission).  ETA: Be careful not to squeeze the windpipe...only to "dig" fingernails into the skin.  The person should also growl.

I know it sounds strange but it really works.

But it must be the person who is being "victimized" by the dog who corrects him.  He needs to know that that person is above him in the pack.


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## farmgirl68 (Mar 29, 2011)

Update:

Early this evening my daughter was eating at the dinningroom table and my husband was watching tv by his computer at the other end of the dinning area. The kitchen is attached to the dinning area.

The dog sat on my hubby's lap with no issues. He petted him and they watched tv together. Earlier he climbed into my daughter's lap, no issues. She pet him, he licked her etc.

Than I was making dinner and the male friend this dog has issues with entered the kitchen to help me cook. The dog snarled, but did not growl or bite. After the guy left where I was standing in the kitchen and went toward where my husband was sitting (near the table)....

The dog started growling and barking at the guy. i immediated grabbed his leash he was wearing and told him no.

The guy went in front of the dog in a stern force and told the dog, he was boss, not the dog.

The dog was still on the leash in my hand after the guy told the dog off, he retreated and laid down (I still had him on the leash).



My male friend thinks this dog is trouble and that the dog may cause serious injury to a person or animal.



_My issue is: My disabled daughter is making great improvements since we got the dog._

I am stressed over this, I feel caught in the middle.

Do I keep the dog, continue training it and hope for the best, or do I give it back to the "Foster family" the dog came from, at the risk of my daughter being emotional hurt and her progress ending?


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## carolinagirl (Mar 30, 2011)

Do as Elevan suggests and see if that works first.  The dog needs to be firmly and strongly corrected, EVERY time it growls.  It should never growl at you either.  If it does, it means he does not respect you.  How is he with his food bowl?  Does he have any food aggression issues?  This all need to be managed ASAP or the dog can be a danger to your daughter.  The physical and emotional scars of being bitten in the face are going to be much worse than the emotional scars of losing this dog.  Dogs like this are often fear biters too, biting if he is scared or cornered.  Establish if this is a problem now too, but protect yourself with gloves.  Even small dogs can do a lot of damage.  I know your daughter has made progress with this dog but don't you think she would make progress with a different dog instead?


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## freemotion (Mar 30, 2011)

farmgirl68 said:
			
		

> The dog started growling and barking at the guy. i immediated grabbed his leash he was wearing and told him no.
> 
> The guy went in front of the dog in a stern force and told the dog, he was boss, not the dog.
> 
> The dog was still on the leash in my hand after the guy told the dog off, he retreated and laid down (I still had him on the leash).


Sounds like it was a correct response.  The dog submitted.  It needs to be reinforced over and over.  You did not nurture the bad behavior, and the guy made the dog submit with his body language.  So if you all do this EACH AND EVERY TIME the dog so much as give a dirty look, the dog will give up this behavior very quickly.  

As long as it is done CALMLY the dog will become more balanced.  It might be a good idea for this guy to walk the dog, if he can be calm and quiet about it, and calm about his corrections.  It will establish his place in the pack to the dog.  The dog must walk at his side, maybe slightly behind, never in front.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Mar 30, 2011)

you might want to try a dog trainer to help you. these methods work BUT you as the owner have to totally be in control all of the time, every day, all day. it can be exhausting and if you dont have the temperament for it - or the time - the dog wont understand the inconsistency and might get worse. 

or maybe that guy is just a bad egg and you should keep him - not the dog - away from your family. (just sayin' i dont know that guy at all but dogs have a way of figuring people out). but really the dog shouldnt act like that and you shouldnt allow it. 

can you give your husband the task of disciplining the dog so you dont feel overwhelmed?

or get another dog? if that dog has been 'sent back" a couple times he might just be trouble. 

*SavingDogs are you out there*???? any thoughts?? (she does rescue work and has a ton of experience)


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## savingdogs (Mar 30, 2011)

ohiofarmgirl said:
			
		

> terrilhb said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe you have another thread about this dog on BYC? Are you the same person? I've responded to you "over there" but I will say the same thing here.

Give that dog back. Your daughter has only bonded with the dog a week. Get a better dog for her. Not all dogs are created equal. That one needs some special training. Dogs that bite people should not live with children. The rescue should deal with that dogs issues, you should not have to. If you already have a special needs child, her issues come FIRST and one of them is that her dog is safe with not only her, but everyone. I have a lot of experience with rehoming "bad" dogs and NEVER take in dogs that have been biting people (knowlingly). Some dogs will not bite people unless they are harming you or your family. You want one of them. 

When you choose the next dog, make sure you look at personality as the first trait you are looking for. Usually people look at breed, size, hair type, etc. Scratch all that. Find a dog with a great personality, mixed breeds often best. Retrievers and shepherds are often breeds to look at. Smaller dogs can be nippy although all dogs are not created equal. I have fostered 361 dogs now and that one, the doxie you describe, I would place in a non-child home, with people ready to immediately take it for extensive training. 

If it bites someone and you have to make ....bad choices regarding the dog down the road like euthanasia/giving it away/etc., it will be much more tragic for your daughter then. 

I've seen families go through that. I'd bite the bullet now and just tell her you will find her a dog that "likes everybody" and that they will find a good home for this dog.


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## carolinagirl (Mar 30, 2011)

Excellent advise.  As bad as I feel for the poor dog who's really been shuffled around a lot in the last few months, I'd feel worse for your daughter if that dog bit her.  The foster place should have dealt with his issues before re homing it, or should have placed it in a home with no children.  She will bond to a new, better dog very quickly.


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## savingdogs (Mar 30, 2011)

My husband had a thought to add to this after I described your story to him.

How well do you know this male friend?

I trust the dog instincts sometimes.

Some rescue dogs have a "thing" about men, or people of a certain color, or people who wear hats, or have gray hair, or other weird thing because someone who looked like that was mean to them. 

But other times dogs have a weird instinct about people. 

Either way, the dog has "made its point" about the person. Unless you have doubts yourself about this guy, I'd take the dog back. 

Now if the next dog doesn't like him....  Just teasin'.....


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## elevan (Mar 30, 2011)

Okie Amazon said:


> as I said he does not like my other dog.


So she does already have another dog...

I want to address the child in this and make some points and maybe ask for some clarification.  I too have a special needs child and they are all different but have some similarities.

1. Does your daughter have a bond with your other dog?
2. If not, do you know why?
3. What is it about THIS dog (doxie) that makes it special to her? 
4. Do you know?

I disagree with the post that you can just get her another dog and have the same effect.  After all you already have a dog and she doesn't have that special relationship with that dog (from what I understand).

I would personally never take something that is working away from a special needs child without first replacing it with something that works as well or better.  Now I know that is hard to do with an animal...

Maybe you could sit down with her and talk to her about her special buddy.  Find out what endears him to her.  Then go hunting for a replacement. Don't send the doxie back without her first meeting and showing a connection to the replacement. This could take time and you'll need to work with the doxie in the meantime to prevent harm to your friend.  The method I explained earlier does work for this.  And just because the dog "goes after" your male friend doesn't mean that he will go after your daughter eventually.  My Basenji has never bit me and I've had him 6 years, from a 4 month old puppy.

This is what I would do if it were my boy.  You of course need to figure out what is best for your family.


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## redtailgal (Mar 30, 2011)

....................


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## miss_thenorth (Mar 30, 2011)

The only thng screaming at me from this thread is,----like SD said--how well do you know this male friend?  I tend to trust my dogs instincts too., esp if the doxie has bonded with the daughter.  Swomehting to ponder.


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## farmgirl68 (Mar 30, 2011)

We are returning the dog tomorrow.

Thanks for all your advice, but I just could not keep the dog.

Everytime I turned around he was being aggressive at the male member in our home. He bite him 2x.

I explained to my daughter the situation and she agreed. 

We are going to get a better natch dog for her this weekend.

The male is my daughter's caretaker and has been in our home for 4 yrs now. Our other dog is fine with everyone.


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## savingdogs (Mar 30, 2011)

I am so glad to hear this. 

The rescue can probably place this dog again easily, with someone ready to dive in and implement all the great ideas that were suggested here. But that was a project. 

Your plate sounded full to me already.

There are dogs especially trained to be service dogs and dogs can earn "canine good citizen" awards. A dog that already has some training along these lines would be the BEST kind to find. That way you would be fairly assured of a good temperment and a happy outcome for your daughter. There are organizations dedicated to finding and training such dogs, you might try to find the local group or people in your area doing this. If you were in my area I would have some suggestions for you as to people who could help you find the RIGHT dog and a special dog. You might ask a local vet clinic for a referral. There are people out there who specially train dogs for people who need special dogs.

You do need to keep training a dog once you get it and you got wonderful advice here, but I am glad that someone who doesn't have other issues more pressing can deal with the doxie. I'm sure the doxie will find a new family and you guys can find a great match as well. 
Good luck and PM me if there is anything I can do. I'm special needs myself (deaf) so understand that sometimes you just don't need to bite off more than you need to chew.


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