# Ill goat



## julierx1 (Dec 29, 2012)

Ok I have a 1 month old pygmy billy that was acting normal earlier today. Running around the lot with his sister and also nursing momma.  I went out tonight to check on them before bed and found him curled up in front of momma sorta stiff like. I cant seem to get his temp up no matter what I try. I tried to give warm milk and probably didnt get more than 5 cc in him. I gave kyro syrup and still nothing. Tried warming up w/ hair dryer but other than a noise now and then I get no more.  What can be wrong?  He is holding his neck stiff and off to side, will not stand. I set him w/ head up and it slowly drops back to the side.  He is the 2nd one I have had like this in this batch of babies. Different doe of course and the other I caught in time and was fine.  I suspected pnemonia then but now not so sure.. ANy Suggestions?????


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## alsea1 (Dec 30, 2012)

I had one do that. Never figured out what it was. It did not end well.  Good luck with yours.  Can you set up a heating pad for it.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 30, 2012)

I don't have any earth shattering suggestions.  

My list of suspects for a 1 month old would be

Coccidiosis(I would expect coccidiosis to give you some kind of warning, slow growth rate, rough hair coat, runny poop)
worms(any anemia, pale gums and eyes?)
Overeating disease(This can kill with in hours,  but I would think you would see bloating, probably runny poop)
polio or listeriosis(are you medicating with anything on a regular basis, or anything else that they could be getting into that would expose them to a toxin or mold)

Honestly, pnuemonia would be my first guess, it can be very tricky and this is a good time of year to get it, I see you are in West VA, we have been having a lot of swings in tempurature. 

Do your kids stay in a barn? or go outside a lot?  Are you heating the space your kids are in?  

Was the last kid and this kid average weight?  Any signs of slower growth rate?  

Other than loading him up with This is tricky, doesn't sound like he would swallow to give anything orally, so I would load him up with Procain G, B-complex, and C&D antitioxin. I would put him under a heat lamp, in  a box, with the heat lamp close enough to feel warm on your hand, but not so close to feel hot llike it is gong to burn you. 

Have your does and mom's been vaccinated?  with CD&T

There is another vaccine some people are using that inclused Pnuemonia, you give it 30 days before the doe is due and it has the CD&T in it. I realize we aren't sure it is pnuemonia.


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## RemudaOne (Dec 30, 2012)

Take his temperature.


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## elevan (Dec 30, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> Other than loading him up with This is tricky, doesn't sound like he would swallow to give anything orally, so I would load him up with Procain G, B-complex, and C&D antitioxin. I would put him under a heat lamp, in  a box, with the heat lamp close enough to feel warm on your hand, but not so close to feel hot llike it is gong to burn you.


This would be a good plan of action to start.  I might be tempted to add something for coccidia too though.

I agree with RemudaOne - find a way to take that temp.


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## julierx1 (Dec 30, 2012)

Thru the night he did attempt to stand, legs still feel pretty stiff though. I was forcing him to eat just tiny bits but he does seem like he is trying. I have given him sulmet, sellinium,  but will give cdt.  At this point I just dont know. This morning he has poooped and pooped and pooped. Pellets but a really bunch. If he was constipated   1.  What would cause this?   2.  would it make him this bad??


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 30, 2012)

julierx1 said:
			
		

> Thru the night he did attempt to stand, legs still feel pretty stiff though. I was forcing him to eat just tiny bits but he does seem like he is trying. I have given him sulmet, sellinium,  but will give cdt.  At this point I just dont know. This morning he has poooped and pooped and pooped. Pellets but a really bunch. If he was constipated   1.  What would cause this?   2.  would it make him this bad??


Overeating disease can cause constipation.  

You need to give the C&D antitoxin as a treatment not the CD&T vaccine(toxoid).  

I was going to suggest the coccidiosis medicine, but didn't figure he was swallowing to be able to get it in him on the first day.  

Overeating disease killed on of my 4 month old kids last summer in less than 12 hours from start to finish,  So it can make them very sick.  She was up to date on her vaccinations,  but there can be break through of the disease.   
I have heard of bigger farms loosing 20 or 30 kids in one night with little to no warning.  

I would do the kitchen sink method, since you really have no way of knowing what it is.


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 30, 2012)

x2 On C&D antitoxin, treating for coccidia, and checking for a temp.  What are you feeding him?


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## julierx1 (Dec 30, 2012)

Just gave the cd&T as suggested.  As of right now Im trying to keep warm colostrum in him ( But Im only accomplishing 5 to 10 ml every couple hrs)  I also gave a shot of pennicillien  just in case.  At this point Im trying everything I know. He is trying to hold head up but legs just are not cooperating.  They still feel sorta stiff like.  I will give another dose of Sulmet here in a bit.  Any other suggestions??  As for the other goat, shortly after I found her, she was up and running.  I dont know if she had the same thing or not getting enough to eat.  Still do not know.    This little fellow is just pooping like crazy and they seem to be harder than usual pellets!  Should I give mineral oil. Do not want to give too much of things and make it worse.   It just seems like it is a no end battle right now with goats. I have had 5 little ones in Nov. and lost one due to neglect on momma part.  I really hate winter kids but some times it just goes that way.  I told my husband Im ready to throw in the towel and as much as I love my babies,  Im sooo ready to get out of it


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 30, 2012)

You can gave him some warm water with corn syrup/karo syrup added.  about 10 to 15 cc's of corn syrup, just enough water to thin it.  Will work as a stool softener and give him some energy.


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## julierx1 (Dec 30, 2012)

Latest update...

I have been giving him corn syrup from time to time and I do believe that is where his little bit of energy to raise his head is coming from.  As i said earlier he is pooping more and more. At first the pellets were hard but then they were a bit softer.  I bathed him in warm water and got his temp up to 95 but I cant seem to get any higher. I put him in a really warm room and blasted the furnace for now to give him a break.  I waited a couple hrs and just went in and gave him a coffee burst!! Hope it works!!  Also when i picked him up he had a huge clump of poop on his rump!!! I do not understand how he would be constipated with nursing momma!  Does anyone know about this?  I know w/ bottle fed babies it is possible but the way mom feeds them I do not see how!  What to do??


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## RemudaOne (Dec 30, 2012)

Was the cd that you gave him the antitoxin or toxoid? This is important to know.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 30, 2012)

Best way to warm a kid up is to put him in your shirt and just walk around with him until his temp is up. Your body heat does more than anything can, not to mention him feeling your heartbeat and the personal contact.


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## julierx1 (Dec 30, 2012)

Newest update...
He is up and walking and screaming his head off. Will not take a bottle but I do manage to get a little something in him w/ dropper.  After he came running thru the house I decided to try him on mom for a bit. Took him to barn and he run to momma and tried to nurse but she refused. I put them in a separate pen and held mom and he drank a good little bit. It looks as if one teat is smaller and barely giving any milk but the other is good. Im watching the other little one closely just incase.   Now I brought the little guy back in doors because it is gonna be in the teens tonight here and Im afraid he will freeze.  How often should I take him to mom and how long do I leave him on her at a time?   Do I keep trying bottle also?   Lots of questions still


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## Roll farms (Dec 30, 2012)

I'd be giving 1cc pen G - 2x a day -start  ASAP.  That'll cover a lot of bases.  Treat for cocci.  

Get the temp, like suggested but at this point she may have already spiked a fever and be low, which won't tell you much.

Colostrum won't help in this situation if the kid is past 24 hrs old....stick to her 'regular' diet unless she scours.

Probiotics and 2cc of B vitamin 2x a day.

As far as feeding him, I would either take him to mom 3x a day and let him nurse as much as he wants, or give him 3 bottles a day.  If you can't milk mama, use Vitamin D milk.

Good luck!


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## julierx1 (Dec 30, 2012)

I took him to mom 2 times and he nurses while I wrestle her for about 5 min. She doesnt have a whole lot of milk at this piont.  I bring him back inside and he screams.  I did give him just a nibble of grain and he downed it along with some warm water. But refuses to drink bottle or milk from a bowl!  No im concerned about sistr and putting him back out


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## alsea1 (Dec 30, 2012)

Man I feel for you. This is gonna have your nerves in a frazzle.
I'm thinking I would keep a close eye on her udder.  Its odd that she lets one nurse and not the other.  Goats.
Sometimes I think they enjoy messing with us.


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## julierx1 (Dec 30, 2012)

I now have both babies in the house. Went out tonight and found other one curled up in corner moaning and cold.  Little guy is nursing mom when I take him out, but momma doesnt seem to have much milk at all. The little girl is now in my goat ICU at this point getting warm. The first little boy is now scouring ( I suppose due to the milk change and also Kyro)  Gave him sulmet but what else to do?


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## alsea1 (Dec 30, 2012)

what do the goat folk think about using kaopectate to get scours under control.
This is gonna get messy in the house.


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## julierx1 (Dec 30, 2012)

Sorry guys but the little guy that was doing a bit better took a turn for the worse and he died a little while ago.  Still working with his sister


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## bonbean01 (Dec 31, 2012)

So sorry...hope the other one makes it


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## alsea1 (Dec 31, 2012)

Sorry about that. It takes the wind outa your sails to try so hard to save a baby and lose em. Maybe the other will pull thru.


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## julierx1 (Dec 31, 2012)

So far so good with the other. She is still very very weak but have managed to get a good bit of milk into her today compared to yesterday. I was amazed she made it thru the night.  Will keep you all posted


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## babsbag (Jan 1, 2013)

RemudaOne said:
			
		

> Was the cd that you gave him the antitoxin or toxoid? This is important to know.


This is still a VERY IMPORTANT question and a big difference. And since you said you gave cd&t I am thinking that you gave the vaccine (toxoid) and not the antitoxin. When they are sick you need to give the CD Antitoxin

Vaccines are toxoids; they prevent disease. Anti-toxins are used when a problem already exists. 

Many people don't realize that there is a big difference between the two and when you use them.


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## elevan (Jan 1, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> When they are sick you need to give the CD Antitoxin
> 
> Vaccines are toxoids; they prevent disease. Anti-toxins are used when a problem already exists.
> 
> Many people don't realize that there is a big difference between the two and when you use them.


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## julierx1 (Jan 5, 2013)

Sorry I have been so long getting back with you. Little Bailey is doing wonderful. 






Bailey @ 3days old ( tearing up my house! )


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