# Training livestock guardians?



## Back to Nature (Jan 27, 2013)

I was wondering if it is better to buy an adult dog or a puppy as a first LGD. I would learn how to train them either way, but which would be easier to start with? Either way I would buy the dog from a responsible breeder who only breeds dogs if they're close to the breed standard AND good at their job. I was thinking if I got an already trained dog, I could just work with it for my particular needs, and then the dog would "help" train any puppies I buy/breed after that. How likely is that?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 27, 2013)

Do you need an LGD? That would be my first question.
As far as "training", what do you mean?


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## Back to Nature (Jan 27, 2013)

I don't need one right now. But eventually I probably will.
By training I mean, training them to guard sheep instead of hunt them, and stay with their flock.


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## Ann114 (Jan 27, 2013)

If you get a LGD breed, they will instinctively guard. Some lines will do better than others, of course, and it is best to see the parents work and see the pups/dogs before you purchase. No LGD breed should ever want to "hunt" the sheep. If they do, they are completely out of breed standard and should never be used to be an LGD.

Don't get a non-LGD breed and think it'll be OK to train them to be one. Sure, it can be done with limited success, but why risk it?


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## EllieMay (Jan 27, 2013)

Ann114 said:
			
		

> If you get a LGD breed, they will instinctively guard. Some lines will do better than others, of course, and it is best to see the parents work and see the pups/dogs before you purchase. No LGD breed should ever want to "hunt" the sheep. If they do, they are completely out of breed standard and should never be used to be an LGD.
> *
> Don't get a non-LGD breed and think it'll be OK to train them to be one. Sure, it can be done with limited success, but why risk it?*


*x2*


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## Back to Nature (Jan 27, 2013)

Well, that's good then. What training would I have to give them? Basic obedience?

I won't buy one until I know as much about them as I can. I'm just trying to find out from people who've owned them as opposed to an internet article.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 27, 2013)

You can look at my started LGD page it is still under construction however, the info provided may be useful.  But it is posted on the internet 

This might be helpful. There is little training, there is more often necessary correction. 
LGD's never hunt if they show these tendencies as a pup they should not be sold as a LGD. 


The main criteria in getting a LGD should be predator intensity. Not assumed threat but actual threat. 
LGD's are not like other breeds of dog, many people who get them find them to be too much. Look at the shelters and they are full.
I would also recommend your farm be well established beforehand. It isn't unusual for people to not stay in farming for the long haul. In getting a LGD you are looking at a 12-15 year commitment, and these dogs are very hard to try to re-home once they have been well established.


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## Back to Nature (Jan 27, 2013)

Oh, I would definitely wait until I'm established. I'm gonna start slow; chickens, rabbits, and a garden first. If that works, more chickens and a rooster or two, and a buck for the does. Then if all that works, bigger gardens and a couple of goats. You get the point; one, maybe two, species at a time. And when I reach my limit I will not add anything else, or I will eliminate one thing before trying another. I wouldn't be getting enough sheep to justify a LGD for a while.

When you say look at the shelters, are you saying that as an example, or can good LGDs be found in shelters?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 27, 2013)

The shelters are full of LGD's that were "throw aways" 

These are some reasons why the rescues are full....   
.. well an LGD didn't work out for me.. oh the LGD kept killing my chickens...The lgd barks all night...

Most rescues will not place a LGD breed in a LGD home. Which is a never ending problem.


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (Jan 27, 2013)

Back to Nature said:
			
		

> Oh, I would definitely wait until I'm established. I'm gonna start slow; chickens, rabbits, and a garden first. If that works, more chickens and a rooster or two, and a buck for the does. Then if all that works, bigger gardens and a couple of goats. You get the point; one, maybe two, species at a time. And when I reach my limit I will not add anything else, or I will eliminate one thing before trying another. I wouldn't be getting enough sheep to justify a LGD for a while.
> 
> When you say look at the shelters, are you saying that as an example, or can good LGDs be found in shelters?


You can find a good LGD in a shelter, but it is rare. Often they will be pulled to rescue and the rescue will not adopt them out to be "outside dogs". It's complete BS. However, sometimes they DO end up in a shelter because the farm went bankrupt or something like that and the owner can no longer keep them. I've seen several show up at high-kills in the South, and thankfully they all found a home.

So, yes, it is possible. But unfortunately it, too, is a risk. (And I'm 100% anti-dog breeder. I rescue everything. But when your livestock's life is in the dog's hands, you need to be sure.)


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## Back to Nature (Jan 27, 2013)

BlondeSquirrel04 said:
			
		

> Back to Nature said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You would think the shelters would look into the dogs' breeds and try to place them in a home that can satisfy their needs... And I was going to breed cats, then decided I can get perfectly friendly rescue cripples. lol... No one really adopts the three legged ones or the blind ones, so I can do that. There are plenty of unwanted cats, so I don't need to breed them. Now that I say that, I can even get my purebred dogs from breed rescues too.  Why didn't I realize that sooner? The good thing about this site is that it helps me get rid of my stupid ideas, like buying a dog from a breeder when there are equally friendly purebreds in shelters.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 27, 2013)

Don't do that. Get them from breeders, not shelters.


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## Back to Nature (Jan 27, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> Don't do that. Get them from breeders, not shelters.


The LGDs, or all of them?

I can get the LGDs from a breeder, but my fiance wants a Doberman, and I want an Akita and Labs. (All of them will be working; no freeloaders on my homestead.) I can rescue the other three. Would you not get the LGD from a shelter because you can't see it work first?


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 27, 2013)

If you are going to breed dogs they should have all the health tests done and must prove they are a worthy dog of being bred. Standard, temperament, stability, health, etc all play into that. Also if you are going to be breeding dogs breed register dogs that will improve the breed and be sure they are a candidate to be bred. One should not just bred dogs because they have them. We already have way to many of those kinds of people out there and that's why we have so many shelters full of dogs. You can not possibly just go to a shelter and pick a dog out that you want to breed. It can and should never be done. With LGD's or any other dog. Get a shelter dog as a pet and have it spayed or neutered, don't be breeding it because you have it.

Now I'm going to go back and catch up on this thread.

ETA: I'm talking shelter shelters. LGD shelters are hit or miss and as others said, most will not place the dog in an LGD situation. I still strongly think that just getting dogs and breeding them is a very bad idea.


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## Back to Nature (Jan 27, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> If you are going to breed dogs they should have all the health tests done and must prove they are a worthy dog of being bred. Standard, temperament, stability, health, etc all play into that. Also if you are going to be breeding dogs breed register dogs that will improve the breed and be sure they are a candidate to be bred. One should not just bred dogs because they have them. We already have way to many of those kinds of people out there and that's why we have so many shelters full of dogs. You can not possibly just go to a shelter and pick a dog out that you want to breed. It can and should never be done. With LGD's or any other dog. Get a shelter dog as a pet and have it spayed or neutered, don't be breeding it because you have it.
> 
> Now I'm going to go back and catch up on this thread.


I would never breed a dog from a shelter. When I considered breeding Akitas, I was looking into the $2,000 showdogs. Redwitch kennels is my idol. http://redwitch.co.uk/

I have actually been studying dog breeding for years. It would be a carefully planned operation, and I would only do it if I thought I could find good homes. They would have all the tests done.

What I meant by my post was, I don't want to breed Akitas anymore, so I can get a rescue Akita.  I am looking into breeding Labs for sporting/therapy purposes, and if I do, I will look into the Wildrose bloodlines.

Did I give the impression that I was a backyard breeder? Sorry.

EDIT: We did breed a litter of pit bull/rottweiler/some-type-of-dog-that-looked-like-a-Bernese-mountain-dog puppies once. My g-ma refused to fix them because "they live together and think they're brother and sister", but I got to say, "told ya so".


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