# LGD caught eating a chicken



## chemew (May 12, 2012)

Yesterday we caught our two great pyrennes puppies (about 4 months old) eating one of our chickens. They spent the first 3 months with the chickens in their run during the day so this isn't new to them. They also have never shown any aggression to the chickens and still don't. However, they do like to play and will try to romp with them  and then will chase them if they run - which they always do. The puppies have a happy smile and are waving their tales while giving chase. This doesn't seem like they want to eat them every chance they get. 

When I saw what was happening, I ran out there, growled at them, and made sure the dogs knew this was not "ok".

My theory is they were playing with the chicken and things got a little rough. I'm not sure why they starting eating though and that has me concerned. 

I spent today taking chickens, calling the dogs over, and telling them this is my chicken. I've been holding the chickens to their nose and letting them smell and lick them while repeating the words "guard" and "gentle". So far, they haven't tried to eat one again. I also let the chickens free range during the day and the dogs don't seem to care about them until they decide they want to play.

Is what I'm experiencing normal? Why would they eat the dead one? Am I responding correctly? Should I be doing something else? 

Any advice would be much appreciated.


----------



## Bedste (May 12, 2012)

http://www.anatoliandog.org/poultry.htm

This is a link to training anatolian dogs but it is good info.   I hope it helps.  please do not give up on your puppies.  My LGD killed a young chicken last year.  It shocked me and I thought it was all over and that I must be doing something wrong.  I googled and read all I could read on the subject..... of raising LGDs ......  I read somewhere that young chickens are too tempting for unproven dogs.  I know that you never ever let any undesirable behavior slide.  I take my dog and I push him on his side on the ground ...then I spit in his face close to his mouth.   This is what their moms do when they are puppies.  I started it back when he was young and he knows he is in trouble when i do this.    Whenever I notice him licking his lips and staring at them, I tell him no.  If he chases one or puts his mouth on one I knock  him down and spit .. sounds crazy I know.

This year he is 18 mo old and can be trusted with any full grown chicken.  I do NOT leave him with the half grown chickens ever... they flutter and entice.  We are making progress.  

Currently we are working on goats.  He is horrible with the kids.  He chases and terrorizes them. He is not trusted with them ever.  He is however doing much better with the full grown goat and I am not giving up on him.  I take him on a leash every morning to do my chores with the goats and chickens.  I let go of the leash but it is dragging close behind him incase he zones out and starts acting like a predator.  

I think my dog is starting to understand that the chickens and goats are important and this is helping him fight the URGE to chase and play ...

Seeing improvement with the chickens has given me hope for the relationship with the goats too.  I pray a lot... and I am consistent any time I notice undesirable behavior of any kind towards the animals.

Good Luck


----------



## Grazer (May 13, 2012)

Bedste is right, young chickens (and actually any poultry) are just too tempting for unproven dogs.
Especially for puppies and that goes even more if you're raising 2 or more puppies at the same time. 

It takes a lot of time, energy and dedication to get them to leave chicken alone in the first year. My advice would be: don't ever let them be around chicken unsupervised until they're at least 18 months.
Let them interact with chicken only when you are around so you can correct them every time they start chasing/stalking the chicken (many people keep their pups on the leash, so the correction happens quicker).
If you do this every single day and remain consistent you will notice a progress.
And it also helps to drain their energy first before you start the training by playing with them or taking them for long walks.
Having these "quality moments" with them will help you form a closer bond with your dogs and then they'll listen better.
But that's just my opinion of course.

Do take a look at the link Bedste mentioned. I think it's very informative and I'm going to bookmark it.
Thanks Bedste


----------



## treeclimber233 (May 13, 2012)

When my LGD started mouthing the baby goat I put some habanero sauce on the baby goats.  I made sure to just put it on the tips of the hair on the neck where it meets the shoulder.  Stopped him real quick from mouthing.  As long as the babies are still with the mom she will protect them


----------



## Stubbornhillfarm (May 14, 2012)

Bedste,

Thank you for posting that article.  A lot of valuable information within it!


----------



## Bedste (May 14, 2012)

you are welcome.  I know how much this site helped me.

:0)


----------



## dianneS (May 14, 2012)

Yeah, these things happen when they're young.  I don't subscribe to the "once a chicken killer, always a chicken killer" philosophy, because my LGD killed and at a chicken, then killed another young chick a few weeks later when he was just a pup.  He's never killed a chicken since then and he doesn't look twice at them anymore.

I did catch him holding a young chick down with his paws (back when he was a pup) I screamed at him and he let the chick go.  He ran away from me and laid down and rolled on his back and showed his belly.  That was the last time I've ever seen him go near a chicken.

Actually the other day I found him sitting next to a baby bird that had fallen from its nest.  It seems that my boy is instinctively understanding that smaller, weaker animals are not a threat to his herd and he's actually "guarding" the little ones now.  I recently added two 1 week old baby goats to the herd and my dog immediately began keeping special watch over them.

However, he still kills ground hogs and chases racoons and foxes, just like he's supposed to!

Its probably just adolescence and your pups will grow out of it, especially if you reinforce that this behavior is unacceptable.


----------



## babsbag (May 14, 2012)

I think that having 2 pups is a lot harder than one.  I raised 2, they will be 2 yrs old this summer. They killed more than one chicken. They killed 3 or 4 in the first year, and yes, they ate them. Then the behavior stopped until we had puppies. It was the pups awakened a fun game in the parents. I finally resorted to an electric collar. Everytime they would look at a chicken I would shock them on as high of a setting as I could. That worked as long as I was there and they had the collar on.

I rolled them, I growled at them, I tied a dead chicken on them (thier partner chewed it off). Finally I left the collar on them for about 2 weeks with no battereis. They hated the collar so much that they quit. They haven't done any damage for over 6 months.

Time and perserverance, but 2 is harder than 1 to train, of that I am certain. I still would not leave them with chicks.

Luckily mine have been great with the goats no matter the age.


----------



## carolinagirl (May 16, 2012)

An adult livestock guardian dog will usually eat whatever dies in his pasture.  They know that dead animals draw predators so generations of instincts tell them to clean up messes.  so don't stress too much about them eating the chicken.  It was dead (even though they did it) so they ate it.  Don't give up on them.  They really should be supervised with stock until they are older.  Puppies will play and some animals die very easily.


----------



## babsbag (May 16, 2012)

I think I jinxed myself by posting in this thread. 

I put 15 young chickens in the coop last night, late, and I didn't introduce them to my dogs. This morning I caught my female LGD having a chicken breakfast. I gave her the scolding of her life, made her lay down with the dead chicken on her, and a live one. I made sure the live one was one of the new ones. 

She has been perfect for about 4 months...I am very very very mad at her and she knows it.


http://www.canterlc.com/StopChickenKillerDogs/blog/

I have not watched this video, however I did talk in length with the maker of the video before it was released. One of the things he said was that the dogs need to smell the vent of the chicken. That is how they identify that they are part of the "herd". Now I can't say that I have time to introduce each chicken to my dog in that manner, but I do know that when I do introduce a chicken to the dog that is the first place they sniff. Maybe there is something to this.

Either way, chickens run, and squawk, and fly, and they are the ultimate squeaky toy. I have had mine catch them and hold them down, and if I happen to be there they will release it on command and the chicken runs off. They do not catch them and kill them immediately, it is more a game that gets out of control. It is almost like they literally lick them to death. I have even found  them guarding a very injured chicken (they injured it). They don't kill for sport, if they did, they would be gone, it is just an unfortunate byproduct of the game.

I will probably put the collar back on her tonight. She HATES that thing and mopes like the dickens. She knows why she is wearing it. 

Back to the drawing board.


----------



## Mzyla (May 16, 2012)

LGD pup is "molded" (no better word come to mind) *starting from 3 weeks of his age  (peak at 8 weeks!) and ending  at 12 weeks.*
If, during that time pup was raised with chickens and when pup see that his parents are walking near these birds doing nothing to them-then this pup will be good with them.  That's all is to it!
If somebody missed on training during these *very few weeks*....or parents were not "bird dogs", then now you have a hard time....like the old saying goes; "teaching new tricks to old dog"


----------



## babsbag (May 16, 2012)

That is interesting that it happens so young, I had no idea. My female was not raised around birds and the male would try and play with them and I don't know how hard the owners corrected them, nor do I know what the pup's parents were like with the chickens.

My dogs seem to go through phases. They don't do it for months, and then they do, and then they don't again. We had a litter of pups last year and my dogs were perfect while the pups were here. As soon as all the puppies left they started chasing chickens again, almost as if they were bored. That was when I went back to the e collar. All I have to do is make them wear it and it changes their entire demeanor. I actually like it better when they DON'T wear the collar. I don't leave the battery in it so it won't irritate their necks. I don't like leaving collars on them as I get worried they will catch it on something a choke.

Hopefully my little "talk" with my dog this morning about the new chickens was enough.


----------



## Bedste (May 17, 2012)

If introducing new stock to LGD is important, than should we let the LDG smell the hind quarters of all stock?  Goats chickens etc?


----------



## Mzyla (May 17, 2012)

If pups are given the chance to observe parents and "mirror" parents behavior, then I don't foreseen any future problems with these little guardians.
Pups are 4 weeks old in these pictures.

I never heard of vent sniffing and I never do such a thing.


----------



## Grazer (May 17, 2012)

Mzyla, thanks for this explanation. I was always under the impression that when puppies don't come from working "bird parents" it's not as easy to get them not to chase poultry. And your advice confirms my suspicion. 
That's important to know.


----------



## secuono (May 25, 2012)

You are not allowed to let them play, chase, pounce or anything with the chickens! All they are allowed to do is be calm and mainly ignore them, anything else should be corrected. The loss of the chicken was fully your fault if you allow them to 'play' with their charges.


----------

