# Omg! I am shaking and need advice!



## NYRIR (Sep 16, 2012)

My kids and I took 3 baby goats(all between 3-4 months) for a walk down our country dirt road...*.they were on leashes* and we were walking on the* opposite side of the road from the neighbors property*. All of a sudden, a HUGE pitbull comes flying out of his front door and tackles my doeling, pinning her to the ground in a second flat!! My daughter (14) was screaming and trying to get in between them,I was punching the dog...and I am almost 6 foot tall, so I know I pack a bit of a punch...and my son 14 also, started to kick the dog....HE WOULD NOT LET GO! The owner comes out, says calmly..."He'll let her go, he'll let her go"...he is able to wrench the dog off of poor Daisy May , but she gets loose in the process and runs off. 
The guy never said sorry....or anything else for that matter....   HOW RUDE IS THAT!!?? 

Anyway, we got ahold of Daisy...she has a puncture wound in her ear, and a small one on her neck. i cleaned them out with peroxide,put neosporin on them and started her on Pen G(I know probably premature). I'm worried because she is still shaking like crazy....is she going to go into shock? She was licking my hands but she is shaking so much....what do I look for? 

I did not know he got a new dog.....grrr....why does he ALWAYS get HUGE dogs!! I yelled at him that is one reason I keep my dogs CONTAINED! So frustrated, and this is 2 days after my Mom accidentally stepped on one of our kittens and killed it!! 

I am so frustrated....I had the DH call the police and they called Animal Control...so we should get a call from them...

Now I'm really worried about all my livestock...that dog went at her with one thing in mind. How big of a charge do i need for the goat pen to keep a HUGE pitbull out?
Please don't berate me for walking a goat on the road...I feel if they are on leashes we should be able to safely do that....of course I won't now.  I'm now worried about my cats...they are the only ones that aren't contained on my property...we have spent lots of money making sure our animals don't bother anyone else....


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## ksalvagno (Sep 16, 2012)

I don't know what the law is in NY but in Ohio, even in rural areas, it is the law to keep your dog in your control at all times.

I'm sorry it happened to you. I'm not sure on the electric charge but I wouldn't be surprised if you need it a little higher.


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## jodief100 (Sep 16, 2012)

I am so sorry.  I can't think of anything else to do for your doeling except check her regularly and make sure her temperature stays normal.  If she goes into shock it will drop.  As far as walking on the road, your animals were under control and you have every legal right to be there and not be attacked by a dog.  The owner is one of those fools who believes their dog will never hurt anything and it is "just playing".  You and he are lucky it wasn't your children the dog attacked. 

I don't know about the laws in NY but here the dog needs to be contained, even in rural areas.  If the police and/or animal control do not do anything, remind them the next time it be someone's toddler.  I love dogs but a big aggressive dog must be kept under control, for everyone's good including the dog's.  

Again, I don't know your laws, but if it is legal for you to do so, I woudl inform the neighbor that if the dog sets one foot on your property, he is DEAD!


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## BrownSheep (Sep 16, 2012)

I second Jodie !  An electric fence is pretty easy for dogs to avoid.


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## Roll farms (Sep 16, 2012)

Keep up the pen G, 2x a day for 7 days at least (I'd go 10).  Dog bites can be nasty wounds, and any time there's a deep wound you want to use Pen G.  Is she UTD on her CD/T?

She will probably be sore tonight / tomorrow and may act pretty droopy.  Keep her quiet (not alone unless she wants to be), give her lots of love and comfort, and you might consider giving her banamine or children's liquid ibuprofen for pain / swelling late tonight and tomorrow morning....I wouldn't go more than 3 doses of either, 12 hrs apart.

A B shot won't hurt and probiotics any time they're on antibiotics.


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## Pearce Pastures (Sep 16, 2012)

Oh wow, I bet that was scary.  I walk our goats all the time (I do have my clip-on pink pepper spray with me and sometimes my walking stick just in case ever since I encountered someone jogging with their dog who was not leased).  I hope all is okay----I'd be saving receipts too to hand over to the neighbor for compensation too.


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## elevan (Sep 16, 2012)

I second everything that has already been said.  Here in Ohio we can demand that the dog be turned over to animal control for either euth or rehoming depending on the circumstances.  I did just that recently when a neighbors dog killed my cats.

You had every right to walk your animals.  They were restrained.  The neighbor failed in this case.  And Jodie is absolutely right...next time it could be someone's toddler.  A dog that will attack in that fashion is dangerous - period.  Regardless of breed.

I wish you and your doeling the best.  I know it's hard.


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## Stacykins (Sep 16, 2012)

That is horrifying. I really hope that your girl will be fine and have no issues with infection. I take my goats on leashed walks too, so I totally understand! There is some really good browse along the side of the road near my house. 

Is concealed carry an option you would be willing to pursue? Only if you are already comfortable with firearms, and can take the required training most states require. Because here if that happened, I hate to say it, that dog would have been dead before the owner wretched it off. Another option is carrying bearspray on a walk, or a steel telescoping baton. I have had to do the baton before, since where I used to live, there were a few rouge dogs who were insanely aggressive against other dogs. I got severely bitten while protecting a neighbor's dog from a mauling, and has many near misses with my own dogs while I had them leashed. When a dog the size of a small bear makes a beeline for your dog, snarling and barking, I will not play around, no matter the breed or how 'sorry' the owners are. 

Anyway, the dog's owner should pay for any vet bills, if your girl will need to see the vet. Also, hopefully the dog gets a 'strike'. Livestock attacking dogs are not welcome in any agricultural area. Though most of the problem is the _owner's lack of control_.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 17, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear this happened.

As a large dog owner and semi-retired sled dog racer, I would say the pit bull's owner is at fault.  The pit bull isn't necessarily people aggressive, but could be.  Dogs have a natural instinct to go after prey--and sorry to say, but your goats are on the menu.  That doesn't preclude the owner from keeping his dog under control at all times.

I too second that you were perfectly within your right to walk your goats on leash on the road.  Now that you had that experience, I would keep a nice bottle of bear pepper spay with you for the purpose of keeping possible dogs from getting at your goats while walking.  Yes, I don't think you should have to carry one in a perfect world, but our world is seldom perfect.

As for dog bites -- you did good to give your goat a shot of Pen G.  Keep that up.  Dog bites are notoriously bad for infection because dogs have enzymes in their mouths that break down tissue.  Also, flush the wound out with a syringe filled with a mix of hydrogen peroxide and water.  You want the wounds to heal from the inside out.  Dog bites, especially big ones, do a lot of damage by trauma (trust me -- first hand experience here!)  Your goat is in a lot of pain, so if you can give her bantamine or some other pain meds that are safe for goats, do it.  Use ice packs wrapped in a towel on that neck to reduce swelling.  I would also talk with your veterinarian about looking at her neck, if you can.  

The shaking is due to pain and being shaken up.  Pit bulls bite with something like 400 lbs per square inch, which is pretty gnarly.  Keep an eye on that doeling.  Shock is characterized by a drop in temperature, pale gums/low capillary refill rate, and a fast, thready pulse.  If she's showing symptoms, maintain a consistent body core temperature and get her to the veterinarian ASAP.  With pit bull bites, there can be internal bleeding.  

Good luck!  Let me know how it goes.


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## AdoptAPitBull (Sep 17, 2012)

SkyWarrior said:
			
		

> I am so sorry to hear this happened.
> 
> As a large dog owner and semi-retired sled dog racer, I would say the pit bull's owner is at fault.  The pit bull isn't necessarily people aggressive, but could be.  Dogs have a natural instinct to go after prey--and sorry to say, but your goats are on the menu.  That doesn't preclude the owner from keeping his dog under control at all times.
> 
> ...


The bite pressure thing is grossly inaccurate, but I digress.

NO peroxide. Peroxide kills healthy tissue and good bacteria. Water only is best.

Dogs of ALL breeds can be very prey driven. It is absolutely the owner's fault for not having it contained. With that said, it doesn't seem like the guy really gives a crap about his dog. You now have to be proactive and bring pepper spray, an airhorn (good distraction), a BB gun...something to divert the attention away from the goats. I won't walk my dogs if I know the neighbor's intact GSD is out. I have never trusted that dog. Maybe try walking around a bit and if you see the dog, don't take the goats out till he's inside.


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 17, 2012)

So sorry that happened! I hope Animal Control gives the owner a fine or some other type of punishment.  If my dog ever did that I'd be falling all over myself with apologies!  What a jerk!  And definitely, if that dog even steps foot on your property, I'd SSS.  Hope your little doeling is ok!!


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## GoatCrazyLady (Sep 17, 2012)

I had the same thing happen to me while walking my basset hound. Out next door neighbors dog attacked him twice now. I worry for all my animals & I am to scared to go for walks now, as he sits on the road by the mailbox. URGH! Hope your baby will be  o.k.


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## Lizzielou118 (Sep 17, 2012)

Im so sorry that happened to you! My Pug Olivia was attacked by a pitbull when she was only 7 months old. We were at my daughters softball pactice & my Pug PUPPY! was on a leash. Some foolish family was letting their pitbull run free in the baseball feild and it managed to get away from them and charged us. I was pregnant with my middle child at the time and saw the dog coming last minute, so i started screaming. Next thing I knew my pup was in the dogs mouth, my husband came running and kicked the pitbull. It dropped our pug and took off running. 
My pug survived but she was never right after that, definatly thing she had trama issuses.
All dogs should be kept on a leash or fenced in, no matter what state you live in.
I hope your Doeling pulls through and I hope they take the pitbull in to custody. 
What if its a small child next time or an elderly person who cant fight the dog off? Im just saying...


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 17, 2012)

AdoptAPitBull said:
			
		

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Actually it's not grossly inaccurate.  Dog bites (not just pit bull bites) are in the range of 200 to 400 PSI.  Wolves can bite with about 500 PSI.  As a person who has suffered enough dog bites, and who has researched this pretty well (professional dog writer), the upper end depends a lot on the dog, but it wouldn't surprise me.  A medium to big dog like a pit bull could have a strong bite.

Peroxide -- yes, it can kill healthy tissue if the solution is too strong.  I was thinking 10:1 water to peroxide ratio.  That's how my dog bites have always been cleaned out at the hospitals.  Just enough to get rid of the bad stuff.  My bad for not specifying.  

Air horns may or may not work.  BB guns -- hmmm, I've had dogs in a fight that would not separate for dang near anything.  I had to use a fire extinguisher on them.  I suspect that pepper spray would've worked.  One pain with pepper spray is that if the wind is up, you can accidentally spray yourself and your goats.  Try to find something that uses gel or similar base that won't spread via air too badly.  

I think I was pretty clear when I said that dogs can be prey driven.  I wasn't singling out pit bulls.  My own breed, Alaskan Malamutes, are very prey driven.  I wouldn't trust any of my dogs with a goat, and I have well-trained dogs.

That being said, the dog isn't to blame for being a dog.  The owner is to blame for not training/not controlling his dog.  Being proactive, now that you know he's out there and keeping something with you will keep you and your goats safe.

A friend of mine lost a goat to two dogs attacking her doe.  The dogs were a small dog and a medium dog of mixed breed.  (She caught them savaging her goat).  You'd be surprised at how small of a dog can kill an animal, especially when working in packs.   

Let us know how the doeling is doing.


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## secuono (Sep 17, 2012)

I really don't understand why everyone beats an attacking dog!
You need to grab the dog's back legs straight up and turn away with the dog to get it off. If the dog is still going nuts or cannot be held by his collar, you just hold onto a leg in the air and drag it away to be locked up.


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## Stacykins (Sep 17, 2012)

secuono said:
			
		

> I really don't understand why everyone beats an attacking dog!
> You need to grab the dog's back legs straight up and turn away with the dog to get it off. If the dog is still going nuts or cannot be held by his collar, you just hold onto a leg in the air and drag it away to be locked up.


That move does not always work. I DID that before, to get a golden retriever off the dog it was attacking. Well, it did get it off the other dog, so mission somewhat accomplished. Instead, the dog decided I was the next target. Thank goodness I was wearing leather work boots, because even though I both back legs tight and high, it snapped back and got my foot, the only thing it could reach. Better than another dog being mauled, I guess.

I found the solution with the steel baton, easily to flick out and wield . A crack across the side of the muzzle will turn away an attacking dog pretty easily, without much 'oomph' required for a sound strike. I've used it before, better than getting bitten OR getting your animal mauled.


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## suzeqf (Sep 17, 2012)

I've been lurking for a while but had to comment,  I've been on the receiving end of a fighting pit bull attack,  i was walking my cocker and dog was in an abandoned house with a chain link fence and busted out of the fence and my dog hadn't been wearing her fence collar he would have killed her.  It took the dogs owner tackling the dog to get him off of her and he got loose and he had to tackle him again because he was so wound up.  This happened a block from a preschool and nursing home.  I called the cops and the county took the owners to court and forced them to keep their dogs in a fence and chained.  Now I live in the country and have 60 chickens and I'm getting to be getting 2 little does this spring and I always keep a stick or bb gun handy by the back door  just in case of strays.  I ended up having to re-home my cocker after the attack because she had the canine version of PTSD and became very protectice of me

Give Daisy a big hug and lots of love and I hope she gets better


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## teach1rusl (Sep 17, 2012)

Any updates?  Has animal control contacted you all??  How's the doeling doing???


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## elevan (Sep 17, 2012)

teach1rusl said:
			
		

> Any updates?  Has animal control contacted you all??  How's the doeling doing???


x2


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## Karma (Sep 17, 2012)

So I don't know where you are in NY but here (cortland county) we call the county animal control and local "dog wardens", however they usually are slow to respond if they even do we also call directly to the county sherrifs office - especially when an animal is attacked to the point of requiring medical assistance or possibly not making it-because we know it is taken more seriously and documented much better with them so if we go after the owner for medical/replacement costs, we have all the proper documentation and an extra witness to attest to the condition of the attacked animal. So I'm glad to hear you involved them because they usually take it alot more seriously than the AC people.

Also I wanted to point out your reactions, especially the screaming could have made the situation worse - I know it is easier said than done to stay calm when you think your animal is going to be killed however, when dogs attack things like getting hit, kicked, or people screaming can actually encourage redirected aggression (ie, the dog turning to bite you) or encourage the dog to become even more frenzied in their attack.  

As far as what to do to protect your animals at home, I would not rely on electric to stop a dog - especially a pitbull which are notorious for having a massive prey drive and high pain tolerance. I know my siberian husky has run straight through hot electric strong enough to keep an ornery escape artist angus bull contained. If the dog decides the reward is bigger than the risk of the pain from the charge, the fence will not stop them to matter how powerful it is.


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## jessica_1285 (Sep 17, 2012)

Omg I'm so sorry this happened to you!  I really hope she is doing OK!  This is a case of really bad dog ownership and I hope that guy is held responsible in a serious way.
Btw... as a pitbull owner and activist  I try to suggest that people please not assume that any attacking dog  must be a pitbull because most aren't and this is why pitbulls have such a bad rap. Many breeds look similar to pits and if this was a Huge dog then it most definately was not a pitbull   ... but regardless you should never have to worry about your safety because of an irresponsible pet owner.


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## Shayanna (Sep 18, 2012)

secuono said:
			
		

> I really don't understand why everyone beats an attacking dog!
> You need to grab the dog's back legs straight up and turn away with the dog to get it off. If the dog is still going nuts or cannot be held by his collar, you just hold onto a leg in the air and drag it away to be locked up.


Until you do this and the dog doesn't let go, but ends up pulling a huge chunk of flesh out of the other animal. If that dog doesn't want to let go, its not going to. Doing this method is how our old husky girl lost an ear to our beagle/lab mix.


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## AdoptAPitBull (Sep 18, 2012)

SkyWarrior said:
			
		

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Dr. Barr at NatGeo conducted a study in which Pit Bulls had the least bite pressure in a test of GSDs, Rottweilers, and Pit Bulls. The Pit came in third, at 235lbs. No reliable studies since then have ever measured a Pit Bull's higher than that. 

As a Pit advocate myself, I can't stand the mis-information about one of America's oldest breeds. 

I'm sorry to hijack, as the poor goat is the main concern here. I hope she is doing OK and that the owner is punished for letting his dog run loose.


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## terrilhb (Sep 18, 2012)

AdoptAPitBull said:
			
		

> SkyWarrior said:
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I agree. I saw a show where they said the Rott has the strongest bite out of all dogs. The only reason a pitt is considered so bad is because their jaws lock.


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## Stacykins (Sep 18, 2012)

terrilhb said:
			
		

> I agree. I saw a show where they said the Rott has the strongest bite out of all dogs. The only reason a pitt is considered so bad is because their jaws lock.


Actually no breed of dog have jaws with a locking mechanism. That is just a myth.


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## elevan (Sep 18, 2012)

_Let's not derail this thread into a debate about bite force and dog breeds.  Neither of those is the point of the thread._

*NYRIR - Can you give us an update on your goats?  I hope that all is well and the animal control has contacted the owner of the dog*.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 18, 2012)

terrilhb said:
			
		

> AdoptAPitBull said:
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No, their jaws do not lock.  That IS a myth.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 18, 2012)

elevan said:
			
		

> _Let's not derail this thread into a debate about bite force and dog breeds.  Neither of those is the point of the thread._
> 
> *NYRIR - Can you give us an update on your goats?  I hope that all is well and the animal control has contacted the owner of the dog*.


Oops, my bad.    How are the goats doing?


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## Shayanna (Sep 19, 2012)

SkyWarrior said:
			
		

> How are the goats doing?


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## ragdollcatlady (Sep 19, 2012)

I hope justice is being served and your little one is OK......Waiting patiently for news.


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## NYRIR (Sep 20, 2012)

HI EVERYONE, SO SORRY FOR THE DELAY...

Daisy May has a punture through her ear and a couple of holes in her neck, but not deep, thank goodness. Well, we called the Police who then contacted AC. A state trooper came out and took some info, and as she was doing that, the neighbor showed up.He saw the cruiser go by and came over to see how Daisy was doing.....he claimed he was so shook up he couldn't say anything at the time, and was just trying to get the dog back in the house. What had actually happened was he had his landlord knocking on the door as we were going by...when he opened it up...the dog flew past him and bee-lined for Daisy...this is what he told me...

He HAD an adorable little Pekingese but it had apparently jumped out of his truck and gotten a spinal injury that he could not afford...so the vet saved the dog, made it a set of wheels and he is up for adoption.Well, the vet realized save this incident, this guy is a dog lover and asked him to take this "rescue pitbull".He agreed but on the condition to return it if any problems occurred....he had been only taking it out on a leash for the last month, which is why I had never seen it...he agreed readily (in front of the trooper) that it was not a good idea to keep it and said he would take it back the next day.

AC tested the dog for rabies, and it came back negative...so that's good..they'll keep it for ten days to see if it becomes sick.I'm not sure where the dog will go after that...I had told him I didn't want to see him get rid of the dog if he didn't want to but that it had to be contained...he stated he was leary to begin with because of the breed and how old it already was when he adopted it. (the dog is 3 years old)He also said not to worry about walking my goats anymore past his house....
Anyway, I ended up feeling bad for him....and as usual my emotions take off first!I am really glad the dog is gone but I still feel for him having to lose another dog....so to speak...I hope he finds a nice one, and it is friendly to livestock....


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## NYRIR (Sep 20, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Keep up the pen G, 2x a day for 7 days at least (I'd go 10).  Dog bites can be nasty wounds, and any time there's a deep wound you want to use Pen G.  Is she UTD on her CD/T?
> 
> She will probably be sore tonight / tomorrow and may act pretty droopy.  Keep her quiet (not alone unless she wants to be), give her lots of love and comfort, and you might consider giving her banamine or children's liquid ibuprofen for pain / swelling late tonight and tomorrow morning....I wouldn't go more than 3 doses of either, 12 hrs apart.
> 
> A B shot won't hurt and probiotics any time they're on antibiotics.


Thanks for the advice, she was really shook up...I don't think she will ever like dogs. She trembled all night after that! Not to mention keeping her head between my legs and "hiding"....poor baby!


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## NYRIR (Sep 20, 2012)

elevan said:
			
		

> I second everything that has already been said.  Here in Ohio we can demand that the dog be turned over to animal control for either euth or rehoming depending on the circumstances.  I did just that recently when a neighbors dog killed my cats.
> 
> You had every right to walk your animals.  They were restrained.  The neighbor failed in this case.  And Jodie is absolutely right...next time it could be someone's toddler.  A dog that will attack in that fashion is dangerous - period.  Regardless of breed.
> 
> I wish you and your doeling the best.  I know it's hard.


Thank you....and yes, I would worry about any dog with that type of mindset around any small kids!


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## NYRIR (Sep 20, 2012)

jessica_1285 said:
			
		

> Omg I'm so sorry this happened to you!  I really hope she is doing OK!  This is a case of really bad dog ownership and I hope that guy is held responsible in a serious way.
> Btw... as a pitbull owner and activist  I try to suggest that people please not assume that any attacking dog  must be a pitbull because most aren't and this is why pitbulls have such a bad rap. Many breeds look similar to pits and if this was a Huge dog then it most definately was not a pitbull   ... but regardless you should never have to worry about your safety because of an irresponsible pet owner.


You're right...he is a pit mix....mot sure what else....


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## NYRIR (Sep 20, 2012)

suzeqf said:
			
		

> I've been lurking for a while but had to comment,  I've been on the receiving end of a fighting pit bull attack,  i was walking my cocker and dog was in an abandoned house with a chain link fence and busted out of the fence and my dog hadn't been wearing her fence collar he would have killed her.  It took the dogs owner tackling the dog to get him off of her and he got loose and he had to tackle him again because he was so wound up.  This happened a block from a preschool and nursing home.  I called the cops and the county took the owners to court and forced them to keep their dogs in a fence and chained.  Now I live in the country and have 60 chickens and I'm getting to be getting 2 little does this spring and I always keep a stick or bb gun handy by the back door  just in case of strays.  I ended up having to re-home my cocker after the attack because she had the canine version of PTSD and became very protectice of me
> 
> Give Daisy a big hug and lots of love and I hope she gets better



and thank you so much! I think I'll try the pepper spray thing first..and maybe a pocket knife....so sorry about your dog!


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## NYRIR (Sep 20, 2012)

Karma said:
			
		

> So I don't know where you are in NY but here (cortland county) we call the county animal control and local "dog wardens", however they usually are slow to respond if they even do we also call directly to the county sherrifs office - especially when an animal is attacked to the point of requiring medical assistance or possibly not making it-because we know it is taken more seriously and documented much better with them so if we go after the owner for medical/replacement costs, we have all the proper documentation and an extra witness to attest to the condition of the attacked animal. So I'm glad to hear you involved them because they usually take it alot more seriously than the AC people.
> 
> Also I wanted to point out your reactions, especially the screaming could have made the situation worse - I know it is easier said than done to stay calm when you think your animal is going to be killed however, when dogs attack things like getting hit, kicked, or people screaming can actually encourage redirected aggression (ie, the dog turning to bite you) or encourage the dog to become even more frenzied in their attack.
> 
> As far as what to do to protect your animals at home, I would not rely on electric to stop a dog - especially a pitbull which are notorious for having a massive prey drive and high pain tolerance. I know my siberian husky has run straight through hot electric strong enough to keep an ornery escape artist angus bull contained. If the dog decides the reward is bigger than the risk of the pain from the charge, the fence will not stop them to matter how powerful it is.


I am in Renn county...makes sense about the staying calm....hadn't thought of that but also never had a dog attack a goat before....or anything else for that matter. Yes, it would have been near impossible since 2 days before that we had just watched our beloved kitten die from being accidentally stepped on...so emotions were high instantly.
As for the fencing...it's all I will have really.... I don't know what else you could do....


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## NYRIR (Sep 20, 2012)

AdoptAPitBull said:
			
		

> SkyWarrior said:
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Thank you, she seems ok. 
As for the Pibull thing, I believe it is a cross, and I also do not belive any one breed to be viscious, I think people make them that way.I have nothing against Pit bulls myself...it just happened to be the type(cross of pit)that did it.


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## jodief100 (Sep 20, 2012)

I am so glad she is getting better and your neighbor is taking responsibility.  

It is unfortunate that the dog has to suffer from some person's inability to properly train and control it.  Big and agressive dogs need a firm hand from day 1.


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## Queen Mum (Sep 20, 2012)

It sounds like your neighbor is an alright guy.  I am really glad he came through.  
It also goes to show that first impressions (of your neighbor) aren't always what they seem.  

I am sorry to hear that your goat had to be the victim of someone else's negligent care of a potentially wonderful animal.  Pitbulls get a bum rap when they are badly raised.  

I hope your little goat gets over her trauma with the dog.  Goats are pretty good about unlearning things if you work with them diligently.  You can help her get used to dogs by introducing her to a pup, and letting the pup grow up with her, if you have that opportunity.  I did that with one of mine and it worked pretty well.  It doesn;t always work, but sometimes it does.  

Good luck.


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## Nathan Sampson (Sep 22, 2012)

I am glad your doe is ok.


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