# Bad Day - Lambing Questions - long post



## cheraboo (Jun 11, 2011)

We've been anxiously awaiting the arrival of our first lambs. We got Peek-a-Boo and Peanut last spring for my daughter, Rachel, to raise for fleece. We took them to be bred in January and weren't sure until a few weeks ago that they were both preggers. 

Boo has been bigger all along. Her udders are fuller and her teats were bigger/longer (sorry, don't know correct terminology). The past few days we could see they were getting bigger so we knew it wouldn't be long. We have been closing the sheep in a pen at night as we weren't sure how our 6 month old Pyrenees, Sasha,  would handle them. Sasha is a good girl, but she is still a puppy. While I don't believe she would intentionally hurt any of our animals, she has contributed to the death of one of our pullets. Sasha had the poor thing in her mouth and it had a heart attack. 

Anyway, Rachel closed the girls in last night and all was well. Somewhere between 10PM and 9AM Boo gave birth. Something got the baby though - it had no head. Not a nice thing to find in the barn. Even worse was listening Boo cry for her baby.

At first we thought that Sasha might have done it but now that I've had some time to think about things I just can't believe she did. We haven't found the head. There was no blood in the pen. I'm leaning toward a weasel at this point. I know they are around. We haven't had problems with them since last fall, when they killed one of our chickens. Do you think a weasel would kill a lamb? Even with 2 sheep in the pen?

Is there any way to tell if Boo still has another lamb? I'm guessing if she did she would've already delivered it. I'm not seeing anything coming from her backside at all.

As for Peanut - her udder still is not as filled out as Boo's but she's getting there. Not seeing any discharge but I'm wondering if her water broke (assuming sheep are like people). There seems to be some leakage. No mucous though. She has been digging at the dirt on one side of the barn. Then she lays down for a few minutes and gets back up and goes outside. I watched her do this two times in 30 minutes this afternoon. After what happened to Boo's baby I am especially concerned about Peanut. Right now the plan is to put up a lambing pen in the garage where there is no worry about weasels and other predators. We'll put her in there at night to keep her and the lamb safe, when it comes.

What else can we do and how long are weasels a concern for baby lambs? I don't want a repeat of last night. Sure would appreciate any info/suggestions.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Jun 11, 2011)

Oh my goodness. How sad!  I'm so sorry.     I don't have any advice though, because there are no weasels near us.


----------



## elevan (Jun 11, 2011)

I am so sorry for your loss  

Martens are a member of the weasel family...


> The marten-cat is accused by the shepherds of destroying a great many sheep. His manner attack is said to be by seizing the unfortunate sheep by the nose, which he eats away, till the animal is either destroyed on the spot or dies a lingering death. I have been repeatedly told this by different Highland shepherds and others, and believe it to be a true accusation. They kill numbers of lambs, and when they take to poultry-killing, enter the henhouse fearlessly, committing immense havoc; in fact seldom leaving a single fowl alive  having the same propensity as the ferret for killing many more victims than he can consume.


----------



## cheraboo (Jun 11, 2011)

One of our friends is thinking maybe it was the dog but I still can't see that being the case. She didn't think it could be a weasel though so I just don't know. We've got a couple more days before Peanut lambs so I am really concerned. I don't want to lose our other lamb when it comes.


----------



## Matthew3590 (Jun 11, 2011)

I don't know of any predator that just eats the head or tries any other part of the body other than vermins


----------



## boykin2010 (Jun 11, 2011)

I really dont know what it could have been. I think if your dog did it you could see blood on the dog or see the dog with the head. It was probably something else. I would take the other ewe somewhere secure to make sure nothing gets her lamb.


----------



## jhm47 (Jun 11, 2011)

A weasel wouldn't eat a whole lamb's head.  It might suck out the blood, but they don't usually eat much flesh, and a lamb's head would be far too much for a weasel to eat.  I'd bet it was the dog.


----------



## rockdoveranch (Jun 12, 2011)

What a sad sad story.  I cannot think of any animal that would take just the head of a newborn lamb.  And the fact that there is no blood concerns me.  Honestly, your description makes me think that a human had to do it!  

*Hopefully others will jump in here*, but I have some concerns that your other ewe is in labor and is having a problem since she is pawing, laying down and getting up, and having what you describe as leakage.  From my experience over the years my guess is that she may have a breech baby or one or two stuck in the birth canal.  

*Please others, jump in here*, but if this continues for more than a half day,* if it were me*, I would reach inside her and see what you feel.  She may need your assistance.

*If you have a vet, check with him/her!* * I am just telling you what I think and surely do not want to be responsible for telling you something that may not be accurate in your case.*

We have_ never_ had a ewe accept her baby when we had to help her along.

Please keep us updated!


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Jun 12, 2011)

From what the OP describes it really does not sound to me like the other is in labor.  She would see some serious pushing and straining. Sounds like she's just uncomfortable and can't find a good place or position to get comfy.


----------



## rockdoveranch (Jun 12, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> From what the OP describes it really does not sound to me like the other is in labor.  She would see some serious pushing and straining. Sounds like she's just uncomfortable and can't find a good place or position to get comfy.


Thanks!  I am so glad you posted on this subject too!  I worry when I see one going up and down for any length of time without birthing.

What do you think about the OP saying there seems to be some "leakage" ?

Our sheep birth out in our pastures and I have been lucky enough to get some nice pictures.


----------



## RockyToggRanch (Jun 12, 2011)

I can't imagine anything just taking the head. Not even a dog. No blood anywhere? Very strange.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Jun 13, 2011)

rockdoveranch said:
			
		

> What do you think about the OP saying there seems to be some "leakage" ?
> 
> Our sheep birth out in our pastures and I have been lucky enough to get some nice pictures.


It's normal to have discharge before labor, even for a week or two before.  I don't really worry until I see a LOT of discharge or serious straining by the ewe.


----------



## RockyToggRanch (Jun 13, 2011)

How is the ewe today? Both of them.


----------



## rockdoveranch (Jun 13, 2011)

Ya know, the OP has plagued me, so I pulled out my Storey's Guide to Raising Sheep hours ago and fell asleep reading.  I was on a Painted Desert Sheep forum and the members swear by this book.

The book says that "too much lying around, without any observable cud chewing, may be an early sign of the doppiness caused by toxemia."   We had a ewe a couple of years ago that presented with toxemia differently.  She was walking with a tilted head and falling down.  We had no idea she was pregnant.  She had a lovely little black belly and weeks of karo to her diet got her healthy.

It also says, "some ewes may have a mucous discharge, which can be clear or slightly bloody, starting about 2 days before they actually go into labor."

My middle name is "Worry" and from my experience, a discharge without lambing has always turned out bad for us.


----------



## cheraboo (Jun 13, 2011)

Exciting news! We have a ram 

We had been checking on Peanut every couple of hours even though her udder wasn't anywhere near as full as Boo's. I checked this morning around 7AM. Rachel went out around 10AM to do chores and found a perfect little ram. Peanut surprised us all! Our original plan was to keep a ewe lamb and then we had homes for two more ewes and a ram as we were anticipating multiples. But given what happened to Boo's baby I just can't let the little guy go. Jacob just named him Aries. I'll post a pic when I get a chance.

As for Peek-a-Boo ... I'm worried about her. She's pretty much laid down in the walkway in the barn. I've seen her up and about but not much at all. I feel so miserable for her and am thinking it has to be hard on her not having her baby. Silly question - do sheep get depressed?

Emotional issues aside, can someone please fill me in on what to expect with her? Her udder is just HUGE! What can we do to make her comfy?


----------



## RockyToggRanch (Jun 13, 2011)

I don't have sheep... Some questions that I would have about your situation..How do you know if she has a retained placenta? (or fetus) Is she acting sick? Could she have a uterine tear?

I'm just running through all of the possible scenerios in my paranoid head. 

Did you look closely at the dead lambs body? Was there any evidence of teeth marks? Did the neck look like it was chewed? or ripped?

I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope it turns out well. 

Congrats on the ram lamb.


----------



## cheraboo (Jun 13, 2011)

Boo's not acting sick - just kind of mopey/standoffish. 

As for the ewe lamb. I didn't examine it as closely as I should've. The neck area didn't really look torn or shredded. If I hadn't known the head was missing I would've thought the lamb had her head under her. She was laid out on her side nice as could be. The body wasn't anywhere near a hole where the dog could've maybe stuck her head under and grabbed her. Even if Sasha had gotten ahold of her I don't think the lamb would've been laying out so nicely. I am just baffled as to what could've happened.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Jun 13, 2011)

Is Boo eating?  If she's so mopey that's not normal.  They usually "get over" losing a lamb pretty quickly.  I'd check her temp and see if she has a fever.


----------



## rockdoveranch (Jun 13, 2011)

cheraboo said:
			
		

> Exciting news! We have a ram


I am SO glad you have good news to report!  Just sign me, Worry-Wart!

When we had to remove a twin that soon died and a twin that was near death from the birth canal the mom recovered quickly.  When we had to remove dead twins from a ewe earlier this year, the ewe recovered quickly.

However, when we lost lambs after the mom has birthed on her own, the mom was sad and looked for her babies.  It was very sad.  

After assisting a ewe when twins were stuck in the birth canal with one lambs head out and 3 front legs out, the vet told me it was a good idea after removing both lambs to reach inside to make sure she was not with holding another lamb.

About the lamb with the missing head, did it look like a clean cut?


----------



## rockdoveranch (Jun 13, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> Is Boo eating?  If she's so mopey that's not normal.  They usually "get over" losing a lamb pretty quickly.  I'd check her temp and see if she has a fever.


+1


----------



## cheraboo (Jun 13, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> Is Boo eating?  If she's so mopey that's not normal.  They usually "get over" losing a lamb pretty quickly.  I'd check her temp and see if she has a fever.


Boo is eating but I'm not sure how much. Rachel isn't being really clear. I don't have a thermometer but will get one tomorrow. How difficult will it be to take Boo's temp?


----------



## cheraboo (Jun 13, 2011)

rockdoveranch said:
			
		

> cheraboo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, it kind of did.


----------



## cheraboo (Jun 13, 2011)

Boo was out in the yard munching on greens so she must be feeling better. But that udder .... i just don't know.


----------



## rockdoveranch (Jun 13, 2011)

I would not worry too much about the udders unless they become red and hot.

It can take a long time for them to go down.  Our ewe who lost twins mid April is still a little plump back there.

It works on supply and demand; demand and supply.  If there is no demand then the supply will be absorbed into the body.


----------



## cheraboo (Jun 13, 2011)

rockdoveranch said:
			
		

> I would not worry too much about the udders unless they become red and hot.
> 
> It can take a long time for them to go down.  Our ewe who lost twins mid April is still a little plump back there.
> 
> It works on supply and demand; demand and supply.  If there is no demand then the supply will be absorbed into the body.


Ok. Thanks. Just a little paranoid. First time and all


----------

