# First time Momma



## nstone630

We had my doe MoonPie Confirmed pregnant via ultra sound last Monday. Vet at that point said maybe 2 weeks left. I'll be reaching out to this wonderful group of people for help!

Her utter has gotten much larger just over the last few days. She's still acting like her normal talkative self. We fixed the barn up where she can have her own stall. OR we will be locking my buck in there to keep him away during the process. He can be quite aggressive. 

I'm praying all goes well. I work full time and so does my husband. I pray she does this while I'm home in case she needs help. Either way I just pray She ends up with 1 or 2 beautiful kids! The ultra sound showed one, but the vet said it can be normal that they "hide" a kid on you. 

My nerves are tore up with waiting!!! I do not know how far along she is (I will do better at knowing this for next time). I'll take a few pics this evening and post them!


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## samssimonsays

Congrats!  Hoping that all goes well! How exciting!!!! I know you have struggled the past year, you deserve this happy news!


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## nstone630

Yes @samssimonsays  we have had a rough year, losing too many 
I pray this is a new beginning


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## luvmypets

Good luck! I will be waiting here for babies


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## nstone630

Have any of you ever had trouble with your bucks trying to hurt the kids?


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## nstone630

This is MoonPie a few weeks ago. I'll post one today when I get home.


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## samssimonsays

I had a wether that would butt our buckling and any other goat away from the food. He became so bad we feared he'd cause a miscarriage in the does once they were bred. We gave him up to continue on with bucks instead as they can give back in the way of producing kids vs. eating food and not giving back. I personally would't leave the buck with them as he may harm them if he is already aggressive. He also may breed her back before she should be.


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## samssimonsays

She is a cutie!


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## nstone630

samssimonsays said:


> I had a wether that would butt our buckling and any other goat away from the food. He became so bad we feared he'd cause a miscarriage in the does once they were bred. We gave him up to continue on with bucks instead as they can give back in the way of producing kids vs. eating food and not giving back. I personally would't leave the buck with them as he may harm them if he is already aggressive. He also may breed her back before she should be.



How long after should I wait before I breed her again? Not until the baby is weened if I had to guess. But since I'm so new with this, I'd rather ask then assume ANYTHING!


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## samssimonsays

I am unfamiliar with Meat goats but I believe once a year, with a regular schedule? We will be breeding our does every fall for spring babies. I know some have bred their does back to back but not every year and then they give them a bit of a break. Most breeds are seasonal breeders meaning that they only go into heat certain months out of the year and those are usually fall/winter months.


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## luvmypets

nstone630 said:


> This is MoonPie a few weeks ago. I'll post one today when I get home.


I say twins one of each! She looks lovely


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## nstone630

luvmypets said:


> I say twins one of each! She looks lovely


I'd love twins!! At least 1 doe would be amazing! I'll just be happy for any amount of healthy kids! She's quite the character herself...miss priss I call her sometimes. 

I'll be locking up the buck this week, no need in him harassing her 24-7 for love that she is just not going to give. He's quite upset that for the last few months he can't seem to get her interested! Wonder why!!!??? HAHA Boys!  When the vet was trying to do the ultra sound, he was definitely trying to take advantage of us holding her in place. He's just a rude boy. At least I know now he's a proven breeder, otherwise he'd be sold to the highest bidder ;-)


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## luvmypets

Did you happen to get a look at the ultrasound?


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## nstone630

luvmypets said:


> Did you happen to get a look at the ultrasound?



Yes, we saw a spine and rib cage. The vet was able to see a heartbeat, though I wasn't able to make it out.


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## TAH

It depends on the bucks temperament. We keep our does and buck together year round, we separate the doe a 1week to 5 days before kidding. after she has them we leave them separate from the herd for 3 days and then realise them back with the herd. Our buck has loved the kids, he even sleeps by them at night LOL. (I hope to keep the bucks separate from the does later on down the road).

You normally want to breed once a year but that depends on the does body condition. After she has weaned the kids, look at how well she has kept her body weight. If she seems to loose weight after she kids them make sure she gets to weight before you breed her again. We had a doe that got bred 3 months after kidding and seems to be fine, nice weight eats well and is spunky. We have friends that had Boer goats, they bred them twice a year and did fine.

Hope everything goes well


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## TAH

Do you have a kidding kit?


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## nstone630

TAH said:


> Do you have a kidding kit?


 I don't. I was reading today on the page about what to have. We are making a trip to Tractor supply this evening for a few things. Seems the most very important are gloves, iodine, clean towels, clean water and a suction ball.


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## Goat Whisperer

nstone630 said:


> I don't. I was reading today on the page about what to have. We are making a trip to Tractor supply this evening for a few things. Seems the most very important are gloves, iodine, clean towels, clean water and a suction ball.


Add a bottle of lube and shoulder length gloves to that list! When you have a difficult kidding, it really helps to have those items on hand. Your goat will most likely kid fine, but I think its worth keeping them on hand. You never know when you will need it!

I'd recommend you grab a tube of JumpStart Plus paste while you are at TSC. I always keep it on hand during kidding. It has brought back newborns that I didn't think would live. During kidding I try to keep a few tubes on hand cause chances are, someone is going to call late at night needing help with newborn kids. 

Be sure to check BOTH teats when the doe kids. Squeeze several squirts out of each teat to be sure it is flowing as it should. Some doe have colostrum so thick the kids cannot get it out. Had several calls last kidding season because of this. One kid died because the owner wasn't able to catch it quickly. I ended up having to go to another  friends to milk out the doe because they couldn't and the kids were getting very weak and the one was close to dying. I milked what I could, "diluted" it with some of our goats milk and fed the kids. Ended up leaving them some frozen colostrum, milk, and some JumpStart Plus paste. Gave some instructions for them to follow and the kids made it


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## Green Acres Farm

@Goat Whisperer, when you give probiotics or jump start, do you put it directly into the goat's mouth and not clean it before using it on the next or saving for later? When I have used it, afterwords a squirted a little out and wiped it before using it on the next goat or putting it back into tube fridge. Is that okay?


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## Goat Whisperer

The probios I use are a powder, I mix with water and drench with a syringe.

I put the JumpStart in a 3cc syringe and weigh in on a gram food scale. The jumpstart tube never even touches the mouth of the goat.

Your method sounds fine. Because I deal with TINY kids (like less than 2 lbs) I give a small amount. I wouldn't give a full 5 grams.


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## Green Acres Farm

Can you overdose easily on probiotics?


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## Goat Whisperer

A few things I didn't have time to add...
Was the dam vaccinated in the last 3-6 weeks (CDT)
Have your been monitoring her parasite count? 
She will have a parasite bloom after kidding. I'd check her a week after she kids and treat accordingly if needed. 

You will need to monitor the kids for cocci and parasites as well. You may want to keep them on medicated feed if you have had issues with cocci in the past. Keep DW should also be vaccinated. I give a CDT at 3-4 weeks and repeat it again 3-4 after the first dose. 

I would try to get the buck but out ASAP. When does get closer to kidding, bucks smell the hormones being released and can think she doe is in heat and run her badly. You don't want that with any bred doe. 

I would plan on having her kid 1x a year. Some goats can be bred more often, but don't try to plan on that. I know a lady who bred a doe 11 days after kidding. It was selfish and irresponsible of the owner to do that (long story- the owner didn't care about the best interest of the goat) I told her that too. 

You don't want to risk a doeling getting bred early either.


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## Goat Whisperer

Green Acres Farm said:


> Can you overdose easily on probiotics?


I've given very high doses with no ill affects.


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## nstone630

Goat Whisperer said:


> A few things I didn't have time to add...
> Was the dam vaccinated in the last 3-6 weeks (CDT)
> Have your been monitoring her parasite count?
> She will have a parasite bloom after kidding. I'd check her a week after she kids and treat accordingly if needed.


I have had a heck of a time trying to get a fecal sample to the vet. My best chance will be this coming weekend when I'm home all day. I don't get home most days until after dark, makes it VERY difficult to obtain. 
We have had issues with Strongyle in the past, the buck had it bad. She doesn't have any diarrhea or signs of any infestation. But, I do understand the importance of getting her tested ASAP.

I looked at her bag and tits this evening and she's not as swollen as all the pictures I've seen on here of does about to kid. Her nipples are still loose, not tight like in some of the photos. She's a bit shy, and doesn't like me trying to get a good picture to share of her bag.  

I'm hoping to have the buck confined as of this evening. My husband is going by tractor supply today to get the final gate needed to lock his horny tail up. 

I'll add the jump start to the list to grab! And if I read all your wonderful instructions correct this is a powder and you mix it with water to make an oral drench? And this is just for the kids, not mom?


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## nstone630

And also, you can give feed to kids that young? I didn't think they'd want grain or hay until after weened.....


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## Goat Whisperer

Most kids will start nibbling on hay and grain by 10-14 days. I'll expand more later. 


This is the jump start. It's a paste. 
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/manna-pro-jump-start-plus-60g?cm_vc=-10005

Probiotics I use are a powder. You shouldn't need it for the kids.


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## nstone630

OK. Perfect, thank you! I'll pick some up! Thank you all for all the wonderful help. 

I just want to make sure I'm fully prepared.  Now we wait.....


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## nstone630

Oh, and I saw a recommendation for a puppy sweater in case it's cold... Depending on when she decides to kid it could drop to freezing or below this time of year here in NC. Do you feel that the sweaters would be needed? They will be in a stall in a barn with hay.


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## nstone630

Additional question...We at this point have 1 stall in the barn. Do you think for the time being it would be good to pin up the buck? And let MoonPie roam the field? Or try and put her up?


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## Goat Whisperer

You may or may not need a sweater for the kid/s. It wouldn't hurt to get one, but if it is a healthy, good sized kid it will probably be okay. Walmart has them for $5, I have a bunch. 

I would pen the doe. Some goats are smart and others are plain dumb and drop a kid in a puddle of water  Some FF's go into a little bit of a shock and if she is penned she will be more likely to clean the kid. With that being said, we've had many kid out in the field with no issues. 

Keep some molasses and Nurtri drench handy. I give warm water and molasses after kidding to give the doe a boost. We have had to give Nutri drench to does who had a very long labor with little to no progress due to being worn out.


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## nstone630

Goat Whisperer said:


> You may or may not need a sweater for the kid/s. It wouldn't hurt to get one, but if it is a healthy, good sized kid it will probably be okay. Walmart has them for $5, I have a bunch.
> 
> I would pen the doe. Some goats are smart and others are plain dumb and drop a kid in a puddle of water  Some FF's go into a little bit of a shock and if she is penned she will be more likely to clean the kid. With that being said, we've had many kid out in the field with no issues.
> 
> Keep some molasses and Nurtri drench handy. I give warm water and molasses after kidding to give the doe a boost. We have had to give Nutri drench to does who had a very long labor with little to no progress due to being worn out.



OK..We will attempt to put the doe in the pen...she will love this  But it'll really be for her own good. Or she may actually enjoy some quiet time with out the buck annoying her so much. 
And I'll try and find the nutri drench...doesn't seem that Tractor Supply has it. I can only find it online.


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## Goat Whisperer

Really? All our TSC's have the Nutri drench. 
If you cant find it, just give molasses water if she is weak during kidding.


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## nstone630

Goat Whisperer said:


> Really? All our TSC's have the Nutri drench.
> If you cant find it, just give molasses water if she is weak during kidding.



I'll double check. I sent the Husband on the hunt for it, and if it's anything like the milk in the fridge that he can never find, it's probably right in front of him


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## Goat Whisperer

Probably


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## babsbag

About how often to breed your doe....many people breed Boers so that they have 3 kiddings in a 2 year period. It just depends on her body condition and how fast she bounces back from kidding. You don't want to stress her but if she looks good and is in the mood, go for it.


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## nstone630

So her pen is up and running. And she is showing no signs of trying to escape. I checked on her several times last night and she was all cozy and not looking stressed at all. I will say her buck never left her side all night. He slept right outside of the pen, he's quite the love stuck boy! 

I now have the iodine and jump start. I'm feeling much more confident about this whole process now.  But not counting chickens just yet! Again...we wait


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## Goat Whisperer

Glad she is content in her pen! 
I can't wait to see the kids 

Have you read up on kidding/what to look for/ & how to check the ligs?

It start checking her ligs at least twice daily (AM & PM). I can't remember, is this doe on your property or offsite?


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## nstone630

I've read up on the ligs...not sure I'm looking at hers right though. I've read some of the permanent threads on here with photos to help. I know I'm looking for discharge, HUGE bag, her acting a bit out of sorts, belly dropped. 

The doe is on site. I'll read over again the lig instructions...


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## nstone630

Ok. after a battle and a half with my buck just to get to the gate for the pen with the doe in it  I felt her ligs. if I believe I did it right I felt above the tail. I tried to take a pic but phone died. of course it did. and I can feel tail ligaments. I guess I'm not sure what I should be feeling?


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## Goat Whisperer

If you felt the two "pencils" along the rump you felt the ligs. They will loose them soon before kidding.


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## Latestarter

Just as a precaution, the babies will very quickly be mobile and looking for trouble. You might want to consider narrowing the openings between those lower boards or tacking on some fencing on the inside to prevent the kids from getting their heads/bodies stuck in there.  Also, if you have water in a bucket for her, please take it up off the floor and hang it so she can drink but the kid can't accidentally fall in and drown.   Waiting along with you


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## nstone630

I did feel the ligs then...I realize now how much I should have handled her when we first got her, she's a tough cookie to let me touch her without assistance. I'll make sure I don't make that mistake again with the kids or any new goats I bring home. I'll wrap them in a hug every day if needed to get them more comfortable to human contact. lol 

As far as the fence goes, I have some fencing wire that I can easily tack to the outside of that! Thank you so much for the tip!!  I do already have her water bucket hanging so the kid/kids will not be able to get in it. 

Also, just got the call about her fecal sample. She shows some Strongyle eggs. 425 eggs per gram to be exact. The vet says since we do not have an exact on how far along she is, that it would be best to dose with Ivermectin after kidding. The said it could be up to 1 day after. Thoughts??


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## Green Acres Farm

Ivermectin is safe for pregnant does.


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## Goat Whisperer

She isn't at a dangerously high count, I think you'd be fine to wait until after she kids. 

Ivermectin is safe during pregnancy, but I do try to avoid giving things while they are pregnant. Didn't the vet think she was due soon? What is her CDT status?

Forgot to mention- the ultrasound might have showed a single but there is still a chance another kid was hiding


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## Hens and Roos

if you can be with your doe when she kids, it will help her bond with you.  One of our does was very standoffish when we 1st got her, we were able to be there for kidding and she bonded pretty well to us.

Good luck, it's exciting!


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## nstone630

Goat Whisperer said:


> She isn't at a dangerously high count, I think you'd be fine to wait until after she kids.
> 
> Ivermectin is safe during pregnancy, but I do try to avoid giving things while they are pregnant. Didn't the vet think she was due soon? What is her CDT status?
> 
> Forgot to mention- the ultrasound might have showed a single but there is still a chance another kid was hiding



CDT Status?

And @Hens and Roos  my husband said the same thing, that maybe after this she will be a bit different. I hope so. She's so skiddish now. Thanks!!!


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## nstone630

Ok just did my research on the CDT so I don't sound so ignorant. I believe they were both given vaccines when we got them. But nothing since. 

What is the schedule for that?


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## Green Acres Farm

nstone630 said:


> Ok just did my research on the CDT so I don't sound so ignorant. I believe they were both given vaccines when we got them. But nothing since.
> 
> What is the schedule for that?


You can get the CD/T shot at Tractor Supply if you have one.

For adults who haven't had their CD/T yet, you give one dose, then ~3-4 weeks layer, you give a second dose. A single dose is given annually after that.

Typically, moms-to-be are given a CD/T 30 days before their due date.

Kids are given a dose at 4, 8, 12 weeks, 6 months, then annually after that.

The CDT vaccine provides protection against Tetanus and Clostridium Perfringens.


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## Goat Whisperer

@Green Acres Farm is correct, but I only give kids two doses. I don't know of anyone who gives it 4 times in the first year. I give it at 3-4 weeks and again in about 4 weeks after that as does everyone I know. 

The CDT is only affective in the prevention of clostridium perfringens C, D, and tetanus. There are other perfringens, but they aren't a very common issue. Although I'm seeing more farms have to vaccinate against A after losing animals to it. 

The CDT is cheap and well worth it! Clostridiums are nasty! If you have ever seen a goat die of enterotoxemia you wouldn't think twice about giving it. It is truly an awful way to die. Same with tetanus. I'm not a big fan of vaccines at all, but I will always give the CDT. It's not a hype. I really hope you'll consider keeping them all vaccinated!

Your TSC should have it. I like & will only use the GoatVac brand.


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## Southern by choice

I would give her a week or two before giving ivermectin. Her count is not that high but she will get a bloom, usually between 3-6 weeks so 1-2 weeks would be good. Actually she is doing pretty darn good! 

CD&T is really important. 
Most kids get 2 vaccines 3-4 weeks apart given 3-4 weeks and again 3-4 weeks later.

Some vets will give a dose at 6 months then annually.
I have never seen kids getting 3  doses and then again at 6 months.


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## Green Acres Farm

Oops.
Don't know what exactly I was thinking.

If you do that, your kids will really be protected.


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## Green Acres Farm

Goat Whisperer said:


> I like & will only use the GoatVac brand.



Why is that the only brand you will use? Just curious.


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## nstone630

And this is EXACTLY why I'm on this site...because of all the knowledge and experience. Thank you SO MUCH! It's greatly appreciated. I'll pick up some of the CDT this weekend!

I'm just guessing, but the dosing will be on the bottle? Especially for the little ones?

Seems my doe is craving some green grass, she's trying to fit her head through the bottom to grass near her pen. I have her on straight hay and some grain as a treat at night. Should I let her out once a day so she can roam? And lock the buck up during her play time?

My husband, son and I watched a couple very educational videos last night on kidding. Even my 10 yr old son watched, so in case he comes home from school before us he will know what is happening if she's kidding when he gets there.

With watching the videos I think she still has a good week or so...But like everyone on here has said, she will decide her time. I'm checking on her twice a day. Ligs still intact. And her bag is not as swollen as I feel it should be. Her vagina is not red or swollen, and there is no discharge.


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## Latestarter

Sure, let her out if you wish. The exercise won't hurt her and neither should some fresh "veggies"


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## Green Acres Farm

The GoatVac vaccine (the one at TSC) has a dosage of 2ccs sub-q no matter what the breed, age, or body weight.


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## nstone630

Green Acres Farm said:


> The GoatVac vaccine (the one at TSC) has a dosage of 2ccs sub-q no matter what the breed, age, or body weight.



Ok...I'll go tomorrow and pick it up along with some extra syringes. 

Confession - watching the kidding videos has me VERY excited!!!


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## Goat Whisperer

Kidding can be a very fun and stressful time LOL I'm excited for you! Last January we had 12 born within 24 hours. Talk about baby galore! 

@Green Acres Farm I only use goat vac because the BarVac gave every goat a nasty lump and some even abscessed. We used it one season and it was awful. Didn't have any issues with the GoatVac. These are the only 2 CDT's we can get locally and I haven't felt the need to ship any in. 

Our one vet uses BarVac all the time, she thought maybe we had gotten a bad batch. I'm not going give BarVac so I guess I'll never know.


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## norseofcourse

In case no one has mentioned it, keep your fingernails trimmed short, in case something happens and you have to assist.  Chances are everything will be fine  

If you're only checking on her twice a day, you are nowhere near ready.  She will wait until you are going crazy, checking hourly, and up four times a night.  Then she will pop them out when you take a five minute break for coffee


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## Goat Whisperer

norseofcourse said:


> In case no one has mentioned it, keep your fingernails trimmed short, in case something happens and you have to assist.  Chances are everything will be fine
> 
> If you're only checking on her twice a day, you are nowhere near ready.  She will wait until you are going crazy, checking hourly, and up four times a night.  Then she will pop them out when you take a five minute break for coffee


Totally forgot about the fingernails! It is such a normal thing for me it didn't cross my mind. My nails don't get long anyway 

YES! During kidding season if I think a doe is getting close she is checked every hour throughout the night. I've been known to just sleep in the stall with them 
I'd rather sleep in the barn for a night or two than possibly loose a kid or doe. It is really nice to have insulated overalls during this time.


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## Southern by choice

@Goat Whisperer 

Two words....
BARN CAM!


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## nstone630

Southern by choice said:


> @Goat Whisperer
> 
> Two words....
> BARN CAM!



I have the coveralls that will keep me comfy if needed for extended barn stays. 

But, my husband thought I was crazy when I said we need to extend one of the security cameras out to her pen!!!  I'd be even more obsessed I think if I could have 24/7 live feed on her! I'd never get any work done! 

We are supposed to have a heck of a cold snap this coming Saturday, dipping into the 20's. My husband is sure that's when she will decide to start kidding! At least it'll be a Saturday and I'll be home! 

I've already decided that if it happens on a work day, I'll be calling in sick


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## luvmypets

Im excited for you! How is she looking?


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## nstone630

luvmypets said:


> Im excited for you! How is she looking?



Fat! lol And her buck just won't let up! haha.

Attached are pics from this weekend. My husband has been ordered to hook me up a light in the barn so I can easily flip a switch and see her. Not having to worry with a flash light.

What do you all think from the pictures? I know they aren't great. 

And we will be boarding up the bottom of her stall today...that way there won't be able escape artists.


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## luvmypets

Her bag still has a bit to go IMO, as this is her first I would say she has a few weeks left.

I think your buck needs a buddy !


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## nstone630

I feel the same! By looking at her bag. But the vet said just a couple weeks, and that was a couple weeks ago.  
I'm going to be crazy if it ends up a few more weeks. This waiting game is hard!


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## samssimonsays

This is why so many do hand breeding and keep any bucks separate other than when they decide LOL. This is why I chose to keep them separate  And yet, even those who hand breed *cough @Ferguson K cough* still lose their minds knowing when the due dates are  It doesn't matter how you do it, they still drive us nuts!


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## nstone630

I've been discussing with my husband how we can keep the buck separate but give him enough space to be comfortable. Especially if she has girls, we will need to be able to make sure he keeps his hoofs off them!  We may end up having to break off part of the pasture just for him.


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## samssimonsays

It is definitely necessary in my eyes to have a controlled breeding program. He will/does need a buddy if he is separated though.


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## nstone630

samssimonsays said:


> It is definitely necessary in my eyes to have a controlled breeding program. He will/does need a buddy if he is separated though.



Ugh...2 bucks? Maybe one of her kids will be a boy lol


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## luvmypets

nstone630 said:


> Ugh...2 bucks? Maybe one of her kids will be a boy lol


a wether would be perfect!


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## samssimonsays

Wethers work but if you get does, you will need two bucks as you don't usually use the fathers on the daughters.


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## nstone630

Good thinking! Ok. Seems I'm in the market for another buck lol


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## samssimonsays

We bought a second buck for this reason, if we keep any doelings from one breeding, we can breed them to the other completely unrelated buck and at least have a good 2-4 years with only two. If anyone gets aggressive we will send them to freezer camp but until then, our boys are sweethearts with people and other animals. They are still babies but we worked hard to get them this loving and friendly so why would we sell them just because of limited gene pool? 
it also prevents spending money feeding something that does not give back if you have 2 breeding bucks vs a buck and a wether.


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## nstone630

This might be a good time for me to slip in a Kiko buck...I see there are a lot of Boer"Kiko mixes.


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## NH homesteader

Also bucks tend to abuse wethers...  Having two bucks is a little more of an even match.  My wether is twice the size of my buckling so I haven't had an issue yet.  But I am adding a second buck next year and my wether will be moved to live with the ladies (lucky him!)


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## nstone630

Would you recommend bringing on another adult buck or a young buck? I'm worried my buck now would fight? He's usually very friendly, but as of late, he's been quite the butt head.


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## NH homesteader

Well he's in rut. He'll be more enjoyable when breeding season is over! It is always better to put like sized goats together but I don't think you should walk away from a good deal if  you find a buckling either. You'll just have to keep an eye out and give the smaller one a place to get away if he's being picked on too much.


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## samssimonsays

Many people have to separate the bucks during rut. I am not sure how to answer that... I got both of mine in the same year to grow up together to try to avoid fighting... Maybe a younger one that would be submissive would work better, maybe not. I do not know...


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## Hens and Roos

I agree with @NH homesteader about giving the younger buckling a place to get away.  We have a older buck and kept 1 of his bucklings from this year- and the little guy does get picked on especially when any of the does are in heat.  We have Nigerian Dwarfs so each month they come into heat.


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## Latestarter

Ummm Many folks do line breeding; father/daughter or mother/son to try and enhance wanted traits. Not something you'd want to do to enhance "bad" traits, so you'd typically only do it with good animals. There's nothing wrong with it but not something to be repeated down through generations. Many also breed 1/2 siblings and "cousins" for the same reasons. But again it's not recommended to be continued down through generations. Since you're just starting out, it will be several years before you'd "need" a new buck. Not trying to put a damper on goat math mind you... and I'm all in favor of adding "just one more"   

Much also depends on what you'll be doing with the eventual kids. If they are strictly for the freezer, then inbreeding makes little to no difference really, until it gets to the point that you're producing non-viable kids... If you plan on selling them to someone who wishes to start a breeding program of their own, you should just make sure the potential buyers are aware that you've been doing line breeding so they make sure to bring in new blood lines and not further interbreed from the stock they buy from you (unless they know what they're doing).

Getting a wether to be a "buddy" for your rutting buck often means that the wether is going to get mounted/abused repeatedly during the rut. As long as you keep the buck within close sight range of the does but with strong fencing between them to keep mating from happening, he should be fine. Some bucks, maybe not, but many are. IMHO most issues with separated bucks happen when/because they're basically placed in "solitary confinement" where they can't see or talk to the other goats. Sectioning off a separate piece of pasture to keep him in sounds great. Hot wire will become your (and your fence's) best friend


----------



## Green Acres Farm

Green Acres Farm said:


> Oops.
> Don't know what exactly I was thinking.
> 
> If you do that, your kids will really be protected.


Maybe I'm not as crazy as I thought. I was looking at the health schedule chart I was given to follow and it says to give it at 4, 8, 12 weeks, 6 months, annually after that.


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## Goat Whisperer

Don't know of anyone that does that. I'd imagine the person was probably experiencing some of the clostridiums in their herd.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

Goat Whisperer said:


> Don't know of anyone that does that. I'd imagine the person was probably experiencing some of the clostridiums in their herd.


Maybe so. This is a pretty big dairy farm and they also give the Clostridium A vaccine*. I'll ask her about it.

*Only given to goats over a year.


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## Goat Whisperer

@nstone630 I sent you a message.


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## nstone630

And...we are still waiting. No change in ligs. Her udder is getting bigger daily. Vagina seems a big larger, but not any major swelling or discharge. I don't see that she has the wide hipped stance (not sure what you all actually call it).


----------



## samssimonsays




----------



## nstone630

I swear she's going to wait until it dips in the 20's Saturday. I have dog sweaters ready if needed lol 
At the latest I hope they come on my birthday Dec 17!!! I'm not i'll make it waiting that long though!!


----------



## luvmypets




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## codie shell

I have 13 goats 8 females 2 wethers and 4 bucks i sold 1 buck the other day I try to keep all my does born and I have a bunch of bucks so I can always been to unrelated bucks


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## babsbag

Good luck with the waiting game, been there so many times...

I have multiple bucks in the same pen. One Alpine, one LaMancha, and one Nigi. They get a little crazy with each other during rut but not too bad. No horns helps a lot on that front. The biggest problem that I have is separating them when I bring a doe in for breeding, I have a special pen for that but it is difficult to get the bucks to cooperate with the who goes where. 

I used to run my bucks with the does after breeding just because it was easy and the bucks left the does alone if they were bred. But when the doe got close to kidding the buck would start pestering her again and I would have to separate them. 

Next year I am hoping for 4 bucks pens to use during rut and then one big pen the rest of the year.


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## codie shell

I have 4 breeding/ kidding pens and 2 big pens that's does n bucks live him I'm hoping to finally finish my barn with stalls but it doesn't get that cold in Louisiana that often


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## nstone630

I'm thinking I have a little while more to wait!  Not much change in udder the last couple days...and she doesn't look near as large as some of the pregger pictures i'm seen on here! 

I'm also thinking she's tired of me taking pictures of her back side LOL by the expression she gave me last night!!!


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## luvmypets

From my experience you have slow and steady udder growth and then one day you go out and boom it's huge. I think my sheepy girls are fed up with me as well. I inspect them every few days-every few weeks, and they are not thrilled lol!


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## nstone630

I'm not sure if I have asked before....I'm sure I'd remember but...Since I have her all penned up (it's about a 12x12 pen, not small) should i be feeding more than just hay? I feed less than a cup of sweet feed a day to her as a treat at night. And a small amount of bread, again just as a treat. Other than that she's has open access to good hay.


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## nstone630

Her belly has dropped and her udder is getting MUCH larger. Could be any time now...no discharge yet though. When feeling for her ligs (I'm still so unsure what I should be feeling and not feeling). But I can now almost grab all the way around her tail...what does that mean?  I'm sure she will go Friday here when it is supposed to get to 18 that night!


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## Latestarter

There are pictures on here someplace and I thought I had bookmarked a picture description as to where they are located and what they looked like but I can't find it... Here's something "quick and simple" that may help...  http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/...n-your-goat-is-in-labor-or-getting-close.html 

Here's a video:  



Looking forward to kid pics!


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## nstone630

I need to wash her bum from the recent bout of diarrhea she had. 
But her teets are getting more swollen, so is her udder. 
No change in vulva yet...no discharge. 
You can see the indents by her tail where I believe her ligs are gone...I can almost grab all the way around her tail.
Any day now.


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## Goat Whisperer

Excited to see the kid/s 
Clean her udder off really good! You don't want to risk mastitis. I'd take some of the iodine you use for the navels and use it on her teats after you get the crud off. 
Chlorhexidine is best on the teats IMO but you probably don't have that on hand.


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## nstone630

She's producing milk! I washed her teats last night and low and behold, milk is in! Still no change in vulva, no mucus plug or discharge yet.  I'm sure she will wait until Friday night when it's supposed to get to 18 degrees. I have dog sweaters if needed. I'm thinking of putting a heat lamp out there in the barn if she waits until Friday, just in case.


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## luvmypets




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## samssimonsays

A heat lamp probably wouldn't hurt just make sure to secure it well to avoid any fires.


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## nstone630

Latestarter said:


> There are pictures on here someplace and I thought I had bookmarked a picture description as to where they are located and what they looked like but I can't find it... Here's something "quick and simple" that may help...  http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/...n-your-goat-is-in-labor-or-getting-close.html
> 
> Here's a video:
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to kid pics!



I watched that EXACT youtube video yesterday before you posted this!!! THANK YOU. It was really helpful. I feel like such the "goating for dummies" over here. But I LOVE learning all of this through the process. It's been amazing thus far! 

This morning no change...As I go out in my heels and dress clothes to the barn to check her before work


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## nstone630

samssimonsays said:


> A heat lamp probably wouldn't hurt just make sure to secure it well to avoid any fires.



I have heat lamps that I used for our chicks when I hatched out bitties one winter, I'll make sure it's up high enough she can't mess with it. The outlet is up high, for where we have out electric fence plugged in, that'll work perfectly. I think it'll do just enough to keep frost out of the stall. She's blocked from the wind, and we can even go a step further an put plywood up on an additional wall if I think it's needed.


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## Latestarter

Be careful NOT to milk her out at all as the first milk is colostrum which the babies will need. If she gets overfull in the udder where it's leaking out and you have to relieve pressure, save what you milk out and refrigerate it so you can warm it up and bottle feed the kids. Maybe someone I tag can give better direction/suggestion?  @babsbag @Goat Whisperer @OneFineAcre @Fullhousefarm @animalmom others?


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## OneFineAcre

I've never had to milk one before she kidded
If she is filling just means she is close
Secure that light
Use zip ties or something so it is impossible to fall


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## babsbag

I think she got some milk out when she was cleaning the udder. I have had that happen a few times when a goat is all muddy prior to kidding and have to clean her up.


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## Goat Whisperer

My impression is that a little milk was expressed while she was cleaning the udder. 
That is fine as long as she isn't actually milking the doe out.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

On the heat lamps- that is fine but use several individual ways or attaching to lamp. 

Every year many animals are lost by barn fires caused by heat lamps. I avoid them the best I can. 

We ordered some different types of lamps from premier 1. I LOVE them! 
Very safe and the bulbs are heavy duty. 
We had several fires start with the other type of lamp- thankfully we caught it in time and didn't lose a building or animals. 

When you start to further in this goat keeping adventure, please consider getting one or two. 



 

https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/prima-heat-lamp


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## Latestarter

Just wanted someone to state/cover it.    I recall somewhere on here someone saying that they milked out the doe before kidding because the udder was so full. Didn't want to chance that she might have read that and not know.   Thanks!


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## nstone630

Oh no no I wasn't milking her lol I was washing her teats due to being so dirty and happened to excrete milk when washing. (Had to scrub, and the easiest way was to do it in the motion of milking" I only did it once. not planning on milking her before birth. But glad you all are checking!!! 

I'm planning hanging the heat lamp down from the middle of the barn. we've used them many times with chickens. I'm not very worried about fires, since we're familiar with them. 

Glad everyone is checking on us! thank you!

As of tonight, no major changes. 

I've explained to her she cannot have them before 5:30pm the rest of the week lol or she can have them sat or Sunday  Yea right!!


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## Southern by choice

We have had *2 fires with regular heat lamps*. Never again!
Whole barns have burned down from them, destroying tens of thousands of dollars in tractors, barns, equipment, and animals..
The Premier Ones are worth every penny!


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## NH homesteader

I've bookmarked those lamps.  I've had an absolute fear of heat lamps.  I now have self regulating poultry brooders and will be ordering some of those lamps before spring. Thanks for sharing!


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## OneFineAcre

How cold is it?


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## nstone630

It's going to be 18 degrees Friday Night


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## OneFineAcre

I've never used a heat lamp
I've only used a plain 100 watt incandescent bulb


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## OneFineAcre

If you are going to hang from the middle of the barn is it going to help them ?


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## nstone630

I guess this is why I'm asking about a heat lamp. should i or should I not??? DH said something good tonight. we have used then for chicks, but not for a barn full of dry hay. ... I deff don't need to start a barn fire. 

Advice for if we DON'T use a heat lamp...for the kids if if she has them at 18 degrees ? ?? I have dog sweaters and that's about it.


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## nstone630

I have a regular bulb out there now just for light. will that be enough?

She's pulled a lot of the hay out of her fed bin and has seemed t make a "bed" out of it. 

I stood there for an hour...Nothing .  she's "chewing cud" ALOT. but nothing else...


----------



## nstone630




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## babsbag

They will drive us crazy and pick the worst times to kid...that is all that you can be certain of. 

I have the Premier1 heat lamps too, much better than the other kinds. If those other bulbs decide to break it can start a fire, not pretty.  Is it really 18° in the barn too? It has to be a little warmer inside. Is there a way to enclose her stall a little more to conserve heat?  It doesn't get that cold in CA so I don't have any experience with heat lamps or winter kidding. I used the lamps on chicks in the grow out pen but there is no straw in there. 

I had a fire in my coop and I did have a light but it was determined that it was due to rats chewing electrical cords.  I lost about 50 chickens. My cord is now suspended from the ceiling of the coop.


----------



## Southern by choice

Aw she is nesting! 

Dog sweaters are great. Just make sure you fully dry the kids off before you put on any sweaters.

Give warm water with molasses mixed in right after kidding.
It will give her energy and usually most does will shiver after giving birth. Sometimes we will turn the lightt on and warm up momma a bit.


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## nstone630

To be on the safe side we will get just a 100 water bulb to keep on out there.


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## Goat Whisperer

The 100 watt bulb is fine for light, but probably won't do much to keep kids warm in this cold spell. 

How high up are you keeping the lamp? 
Given the size of the stall and the hight you have to keep it at so momma goat doesn't mess with it, it's not going to provide much heat. 

Her kid/s should be okay if they are dried quickly and nurse soon after birth. The biggest threat is her not cleaning the kid off fast enough and dealing with a hypothermic or frozen kid. 
If they are born during this cold spell I'd take a human hair dryer and use it (on low) on the kid/s after she cleans them. They are great at cleaning their own kids… but they do have a wet tongue so it's hard for the doe to fully dry the kid. Put the sweaters on (if needed) after the are blow dried.


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## Goat Whisperer

Forgot to say- yes you do want to check the teats after she kids.


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## samssimonsays

Goat Whisperer said:


> On the heat lamps- that is fine but use several individual ways or attaching to lamp.
> 
> Every year many animals are lost by barn fires caused by heat lamps. I avoid them the best I can.
> 
> We ordered some different types of lamps from premier 1. I LOVE them!
> Very safe and the bulbs are heavy duty.
> We had several fires start with the other type of lamp- thankfully we caught it in time and didn't lose a building or animals.
> 
> When you start to further in this goat keeping adventure, please consider getting one or two.
> View attachment 25316
> 
> https://www.premier1supplies.com/p/prima-heat-lamp


I bought this last year in case we got chicks or a pregnant doe and it is amazing! I got the orange one as at the time it was the only one they had. The story behind the guy who created them was very sad as well.


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## samssimonsays

Can you do one of those heated dog mats? I've never used one so don't know what the concerns are with them but it'd still give somewhere for them to get warm, right?


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## nstone630

Nothing new this morning...just fat! lol Luckily my DH is home from work today, I'll be getting updates  Yesterday about drove me crazy having to be at work, and no one at home to check on her. 
I guess hanging a light from the center of the stall wouldn't really work due to how high it would have to be so she won't mess with it! Guess that won't work. I'm going to search the lamp that was posted and see about getting one. 

Hairdryer - check! 
Dog sweaters - check (though I only have 2...might be a late night trip to Walmart if I need more)
Molasses and water - check - Will she want to drink this willingly? Or will I have to drench her? 

My plan is to not go into the stall unless help is needed until after to help dry the babies if it's Friday night. She's so skiddish already, I don't want to stress her anymore than she already is with me up in her face during this.


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## Hens and Roos

when our 1st doe kidded (we had just picked her up about a week before and she was skiddish) we went in right next to her when she was kidding- this helped her to bond with us and she seemed to like us being there to comfort and help her.

Good luck for a smooth kidding!!


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## nstone630

So we are all agreeing NOT to use one like this right? 

I'm just not sure I can get the other lamp in time for kidding  I don't think I will try to ever PLAN a winter kidding again


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## Hens and Roos

I don't blame you for not kidding in winter, we don't breed our does until after Nov 1st so we avoid the extreme cold here.

We made warming barrels to use at kidding time, DH found several white plastic 55 gal drums, cut a hole in the side big enough for the kids to get in and out and a hole at the top to secure a heat source.  Our kids used it and the doe would lay with her head right next to the opening or just a bit inside.  I couldn't find a very good picture but this is one of our kids inside the barrel.   You can probably do an internet search for goat warming barrels- I cant remember who gave us the link.


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## nstone630

Hens and Roos said:


> I don't blame you for not kidding in winter, we don't breed our does until after Nov 1st so we avoid the extreme cold here.
> 
> We made warming barrels to use at kidding time, DH found several white plastic 55 gal drums, cut a hole in the side big enough for the kids to get in and out and a hole at the top to secure a heat source.  Our kids used it and the doe would lay with her head right next to the opening or just a bit inside.  I couldn't find a very good picture but this is one of our kids inside the barrel.   You can probably do an internet search for goat warming barrels- I cant remember who gave us the link.
> 
> View attachment 25349


 I'll talk to the DH today about the barrels. That might work! Just make sure the barrel is secure enough where mom can't knock it over. I wonder...would you have to use a heat lamp then or do you think just a regular light bulb could create enough warmth inside the barrell?


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## Hens and Roos

We secured the barrel to the wall and used a regular red bulb(non-heat)-you might have to try a could different watt bulbs to find the one that works best and it seemed to create enough warmth even with a single kid


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## OneFineAcre

nstone630 said:


> I'll talk to the DH today about the barrels. That might work! Just make sure the barrel is secure enough where mom can't knock it over. I wonder...would you have to use a heat lamp then or do you think just a regular light bulb could create enough warmth inside the barrell?



If you use a barrel you definitely don't want to use a heat lamp.  Just a 100 watt bulb.
You really don't want to make it too warm for them, that's not good either.


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## nstone630

Great tips! Thank you so much!! I like the idea of NOT having to use an actual heating lamp. 

I think she may only have one kid (though I'd love more than that) but the vet did only see one. I hope if it is one, that it isn't too big for her. (oh geez, something else to stress over)  I'm losing my mind.


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## Hens and Roos

hang in there


----------



## animalmom

Here's a BYH thread that give directions for a heat barrel: http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/kidding-stall-size.21154/#post-284720


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## nstone630

animalmom said:


> Here's a BYH thread that give directions for a heat barrel: http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/kidding-stall-size.21154/#post-284720



THANKS!


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## nstone630

DH made it happen. It's ready for once those kids drop.


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## Southern by choice

That was fast!

 to the DH! 

Ummm can we borrow your DH?
My DH is great but ........


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## babsbag

I get her DH before you do.  @nstone630 We might get him to back to you in time for NEXT Christmas.


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## nstone630

It's perfect! 
Aww...not sure there is enough of him to go around. Lol I keep him pretty busy.


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## Hens and Roos

that looks great, glad you could get one made!!


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## samssimonsays

Wow that was fast! My dad picked up a couple of those barrels for kidding prep but I haven't gotten around to cutting into them lol. I have a ways to go yet and may not need them at all. Just depends what breeding my girls took on.


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## nstone630

We put it in the stall so she could get used to it. Darn Buck rammed me when I was going in between fences. DH let into him.  not a fan of this new rutting aggressive buck. He's always so nice. 

No change in her...still just fat, udder is big, teats are nothing but tight triangles, no discharge yet.  I don't think I've ever sat and stared at a goat so much hoping to see a change lol


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## nstone630

Will be boarding up that last slot in the fence...clearly he wants in.  stubborn a$$.


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## Latestarter

I see you had already boarded shut the lower space.    Hadn't expected you'd need to do the next one up as well...   But since you will be, you might consider doing the 3rd one up also   Crazy what some males will do to be with a female huh?   for a drama free delivery soon! Hope you get twin doelings


----------



## nstone630

Latestarter said:


> I see you had already boarded shut the lower space.    Hadn't expected you'd need to do the next one up as well...   But since you will be, you might consider doing the 3rd one up also   Crazy what some males will do to be with a female huh?   for a drama free delivery soon! Hope you get twin doelings



I'll see if I can't get DH on that today....
I stayed up until midnight last night, no change. 4:30am went out to check, no change. 7am, no change. I swear I'm not sure how much longer I can handle this. She is keeping MY kids hostage!!!   Little does she know they are mine HAHAHA. In all seriousness I will not be taking them from her, I want mother nature to do it's thing and she will be raising them. I don't have the time to bottle feed right now. Plus I hear bottle fed goats can be a bit of a pest later on


----------



## lcertuche

Good prepping for the baby(ies). I wish DH was handy but he always says, "I don't know how to do that or who will we get for ...". If I can't do it then it ain't going to get done. I'm glad I have a couple of sons that are getting an idea for making things work and building. They sure haven't inherited this from us, lol.


----------



## nstone630

lcertuche said:


> Good prepping for the baby(ies). I wish DH was handy but he always says, "I don't know how to do that or who will we get for ...". If I can't do it then it ain't going to get done. I'm glad I have a couple of sons that are getting an idea for making things work and building. They sure haven't inherited this from us, lol.


My DH is a brick mason. He's always worked with his hands. Building and constructing are what he's made for!! 

I will be honest I gave him some heck yesterday because I thought he was busy toying on a Jeep and not focusing on the importance of getting the stall prepped. But he surprised me because he had already had it all done! I felt bad  But was super impressed with what he'd accomplished. 

Teach those boys how to work with their hands! It could be useful one day.


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## NH homesteader

My husband can make anything out of anything.  Isn't it awesome? I tell him what I'm thinking and it happens!  He was a farm kid and a mechanic.


----------



## lcertuche

Yeah, so true. I tell them instead of planning on college they should try to get into working on getting a plumbing or electrician license. Good money and not years of paying off student loans. I'll be owing mine till I'm dead most likely.


----------



## Fullhousefarm

Latestarter said:


> Be careful NOT to milk her out at all as the first milk is colostrum which the babies will need. If she gets overfull in the udder where it's leaking out and you have to relieve pressure, save what you milk out and refrigerate it so you can warm it up and bottle feed the kids. Maybe someone I tag can give better direction/suggestion?  @babsbag @Goat Whisperer @OneFineAcre @Fullhousefarm @animalmom others?



I've had to milk a doe once before kidding- but it was a special case and I wouldn't advise it. Unless she's been full and "hard" with a tight shiny udder for more than 24 hours or leaking profusely I wouldn't even consider it.

The doe I milked pre-kidding is a super milky Lamancha. Precocious udder before 12 months. Had a huge udder for a FF her first kidding at 2. Milked for over 18 months her first lactation feeding her twins and another set of twins 9months later while milking almost a gallon a day. Pregnant with her second set of kids her udder was huge. It started to get engorged and shiny and she would leave puddles of milk wherever she layed down starting about a week before she was due. I waited 4 days and she was just too uncomfortable and I was worried about mastitis. So, I milked her until she wasn't tight. 1 1/2 gallons of colostrum and I didn't milk her out. After that I milked a few cups once  a day if she was tight. She kidded 3 days later and I give the babies a bottle each of her colostrum from the first time I milked- but her milk was still very sticky and yellow so I think she was still making-or had- colostrum. In fact, I just finally got her dried off 10 weeks before kidding this year by taking away all grain for 3 days. I had been milking every other day for three weeks with no slow in production. It's a good problem, but 11 months and I was done.


----------



## nstone630

Fullhousefarm said:


> I've had to milk a doe once before kidding- but it was a special case and I wouldn't advise it. Unless she's been full and "hard" with a tight shiny udder for more than 24 hours or leaking profusely I wouldn't even consider it.
> 
> The doe I milked pre-kidding is a super milky Lamancha. Precocious udder before 12 months. Had a huge udder for a FF her first kidding at 2. Milked for over 18 months her first lactation feeding her twins and another set of twins 9months later while milking almost a gallon a day. Pregnant with her second set of kids her udder was huge. It started to get engorged and shiny and she would leave puddles of milk wherever she layed down starting about a week before she was due. I waited 4 days and she was just too uncomfortable and I was worried about mastitis. So, I milked her until she wasn't tight. 1 1/2 gallons of colostrum and I didn't milk her out. After that I milked a few cups once  a day if she was tight. She kidded 3 days later and I give the babies a bottle each of her colostrum from the first time I milked- but her milk was still very sticky and yellow so I think she was still making-or had- colostrum. In fact, I just finally got her dried off 10 weeks before kidding this year by taking away all grain for 3 days. I had been milking every other day for three weeks with no slow in production. It's a good problem, but 11 months and I was done.


What a process!!! Good gracious. My doe is no here near that large, and doesn't seem uncomfortable, and not leaking. I'm leaving her be, will just check that there is milk flow once she kids.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Nice barrel
I'm curious at what temp is at bottom where babies are vs the outside temp ?


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## nstone630

OneFineAcre said:


> Nice barrel
> I'm curious at what temp is at bottom where babies are vs the outside temp ?


I'd have to put a thermometer out there to see. It MUST be warmer than outside...At least I'd think (hope) so. We are using a 100 watt bulb.


----------



## OneFineAcre

nstone630 said:


> I'd have to put a thermometer out there to see. It MUST be warmer than outside...At least I'd think (hope) so. We are using a 100 watt bulb.


Oh I'm sure it's warmer
Just curious  about how much it does


----------



## nstone630

OneFineAcre said:


> Oh I'm sure it's warmer
> Just curious  about how much it does


Well that is all the reason enough to do it! We are all about being super educated on everything goats...why not add that to the list?! I think I have a thermometer from when we used to incubate I can use...I'll keep you posted.


----------



## babsbag

My husband can do anything as well. Fix a car, plumbing, electrical, framing, roofing, you name it. The question is "WILL he do it and WHEN will he do it?"  The one skill he doesn't have that I desperately need is welding.


----------



## NH homesteader

Yes WHEN is often a question with mine as well,  lol.  He can weld too!


----------



## nstone630

babsbag said:


> My husband can do anything as well. Fix a car, plumbing, electrical, framing, roofing, you name it. The question is "WILL he do it and WHEN will he do it?"  The one skill he doesn't have that I desperately need is welding.


Mine welds! And I don't think we've been married long enough for him to think he has an option of "when will HE do it"...I ask...it happens LOL.


----------



## NH homesteader

Lol just wait. Mine is very fast at some things...  Very slow at others. If it's animal related it goes much faster!


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## babsbag

We've been married 35 years...


----------



## nstone630

babsbag said:


> We've been married 35 years...


We've been together 8, married for 5 of those years. I can't complain because I'm just a quick to fold the piles of laundry on the couch sometimes as he is to do things he doesn't want to do LOL We try to keep it at a good balance. And I believe he's smart enough to know this was pretty time sensitive due to kidding ANYTIME NOW!  

He says she's showed no change. No discharge. Udder is huge. She's making me crazy. I will next time to ALL I CAN to "schedule" the breeding, this not knowing crap is for the birds


----------



## OneFineAcre

Did you check those temps ?

I'm sorry I really want to know 

My thinking is it might be around 40 degrees in the barrel of it is in the mid teens outside


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I'd be curious too!
I know quite a few people really like them when you have a small number of kids. 

Just make sure the kid gets up to nurse if s/he is in the barrel a lot. Sometimes they don't want to come out into the cold to nurse off of momma- causing more issues. 
I think you will be fine- just something to watch for. 

To the person suggesting heating pads- 
I haven't used the but a ND breeder up north uses a pig farrowing mat. Pretty much the same thing but bigger. I was considering getting one but ended up getting the premiere 1 lamps.


----------



## nstone630

OneFineAcre said:


> Did you check those temps ?
> 
> I'm sorry I really want to know
> 
> My thinking is it might be around 40 degrees in the barrel of it is in the mid teens outside


Ok...I have not tested it. The thermometer I had ended up being thrown away by accident  but it is what it is. I will get another tomrrow.

She still shows no signs of progressing.  I'm losing my mind. The vet was WAY off on her estimate of "a week or two" so far....since its been 3 weeks. If she makes it through tonight I won't be so stressed.

DH swears she is going to have more than 1. We will see. I'll check on her tonight and go from there

No discharge, just fat as can be and large udder.

Tomorrow's my 32nd bday, I wouldn't mind birth day kids!!!


----------



## nstone630

Taking a poll on 1. When will she FINALLY kid and 2. What the temp inside the barrel difference is


----------



## Latestarter

OH! OH! I guess on Tuesday night and twins, buck/doe. Can't guess the barrel temp as it will depend solely on the outside temp.


----------



## babsbag

@Latestarter  she says "guess the difference"...


----------



## babsbag

I'm guessing Monday and one doeling.  Temperature in the barrel is 35° warmer than outside.


----------



## samssimonsays

I have no clue on temp but I would love to know to be able to use them or know if they are worth it and I will guess twins! Does at that!


----------



## luvmypets

Don't worry, the minute you walk out on her after watching her for days on end, she will have them. Its a proven method!


----------



## TAH

3 all doelings!


----------



## Latestarter

Guessing the difference... the difference will vary with outside temp. At -10 the difference might only be 20 degrees while at +20 degrees the difference could be 35 degrees...  The difference will vary depending on if there's a kid (or more) in there as well... The kid(s) would add to the warmth making the difference even greater regardless of outside temp. And you can't discount the kid(s)'s coat color either... a darker coat color will absorb more of the light's heat energy thereby raising the inside barrel temp even further! Then you have to consider orientation of the barrel WRT any breeze... The temp will vary on a logarithmic scale based on wind speed and angle of incidence. I expect humidity and barometric pressure to also have some influence. You see, -----

Hmmm maybe I am overthinking this?   OK... ok...  so say 26.75 degrees average


----------



## samssimonsays

@Latestarter , you're guess makes my head hurt!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

HUH?


----------



## OneFineAcre

I think she said earlier the low was 18 degrees
I think at 18 it will be 40 degrees at bottom of barrel a 22 degree difference


----------



## nstone630

Ok. Well I forgot to get a thermometer. 

Still no kids! Was up again with her twice last night, and this morning during freezing rain. 

It'll be tomorrow when I have to pick my daughter up at the airport and will be gone 3 hours. At least she didn't kid on 18 degree night lol

DH says "watch it be another week".  I can't handle this LOL

She's doing nothing but getting bigger. I feel the vet may have been off on prediction of timing and number lol


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I think it's hard to predict when the doe will kid by ultrasound. I know quite a few goat and sheep people that had their animals ultrasounded and the vet(s) were way off on their predictions.  

Stinks to play the guessing game when this if your first time with kidding! 
Keep checking the ligs.


----------



## nstone630

Still no change. 
And she is squeezing her fat self into the barrel! !!


----------



## nstone630

Ok. There is change!  Her vagina has doubled in size since yesterday. Still no discharge or mucus plug.


----------



## nstone630

Things are happening


----------



## luvmypets

She looks close!


----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## Green Acres Farm

Ligs?


----------



## Latestarter

Any time now!


----------



## nstone630

I haven't checked ligs today. It's so stressful for her when we touch her I don't want her stressed before kidding really. 

There are major indents on either side of her tail.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Looking like today might be the day!


----------



## Green Acres Farm

nstone630 said:


> I haven't checked ligs today. It's so stressful for her when we touch her I don't want her stressed before kidding really.
> 
> There are major indents on either side of her tail.


Is she usually standoffish? One of my goats, who is normally friendly, would not let me near her a couple days before she kidded. She was friendly afterwards, though.


----------



## nstone630

Green Acres Farm said:


> Is she usually standoffish? One of my goats, who is normally friendly, would not let me near her a couple days before she kidded. She was friendly afterwards, though.



She has always been skiddish and stand offish. So I don't really want to put more stress on her

I've gone out there multiple times and she has this look about her. And one time I went out and she was laying down and didn't get up for awhile. Which is not like her. She usually jumps right up.


----------



## nstone630

He's apparently just like a dad in a delivery waiting room.


----------



## Lanthanum

I am hoping all is well!


----------



## nstone630

She's laying down and  resting differently. Maybe early labor.


----------



## Goat Whisperer




----------



## CntryBoy777

Hoping for the Best for your soon to be Little ones and Momma too....oh, and You too!!


----------



## nstone630

Nothing new...yet.  she's taking her sweet time.


----------



## nstone630

Still nothing.


----------



## nstone630

This was yesterday. DH is home today and says there is still no change. She's driving me crazy.


----------



## samssimonsays

Still waiting lol


----------



## Southern by choice

She is pulling what Ruby did last year!


----------



## nstone630

Tell me about it.   nothing today. No discharge no more vaginal swelling. No weird breathing. Nothing but her acting like normal. O....m.....g..... now tonight when I don't get up every 2 hours with her it will happen  but I need sleep lol been up the last 3 nights every hours. Work is wondering what's wrong with me lol.


----------



## babsbag

They will make us crazy. I had to laugh at her trying to get into the barrel, that is just so goat like. 

@Goat Whisperer  The accuracy of the sonogram depends on the person doing it and the quality of the equipment. We have one vet that comes up from UC Davis and brings their machine and he can tell you how many and how far along in gestation they are. Not necessarily down to the week, but pretty close.  My vet can say "yes" or "no".


----------



## Goat Whisperer

@nstone630 have you seen the doe code of honor? You must go absolutely crazy before she pops  Not joking 

We have had does that we're very close to kidding, checked every hour through the night… and STILL find a way to kid without us being present. Brats 

We had a doe that was super clingy for about 36 hours before kidding, and when she is ready she doesn't want anyone near her. Others that absolutely have to have you around. 

I had one doe (FF) that I stayed with for almost two days. I knew she was close, but she wasn't showing much and I hadn't eaten all day. I had to grab _something _to eat. 
Went in for about five minutes to eat a sandwich, the doe SCREAMING bloody murder until I went out. (never was able to grab a bite of food)  As soon as I got to her hard labor started and her single buck kid followed within 20 minutes. She wanted me there with her and laid her head in my lap while she kidded


----------



## nstone630

AWW. Such sweet stories. 
After today I'm off the rest of the week...I don't plan on going anywhere for long. 
What's funny is even my kids are getting up in the middle of the night to check on her. This morning my daughter was up at 5am, the night before my step son went out at 4:30 lol One night I only knew they were out there because I went to find my coveralls at 4am and they were missing. I searched the house, couldn't find them. Finally said screw it and went out in just sweats and a jacket. And there they were at the goat pen, IN MY COVERALLS HAHA.  So even if I don't check, seems I have little helpers that are going just as crazy as I am about her. 

On that note...STILL NO CHANGE this morning at 6am.  I'll be so relieved once she has them. I can actually get some sleep. But then I'll probably worry about the babies so much I still won't sleep.


----------



## nstone630

babsbag said:


> They will make us crazy. I had to laugh at her trying to get into the barrel, that is just so goat like.
> 
> @Goat Whisperer  The accuracy of the sonogram depends on the person doing it and the quality of the equipment. We have one vet that comes up from UC Davis and brings their machine and he can tell you how many and how far along in gestation they are. Not necessarily down to the week, but pretty close.  My vet can say "yes" or "no".



I swear the fatty gets down on her elbows and squeezes her fat belly through there to get in. Scrapping both sides during the process. If she decides to start labor in there I will scream!!!


----------



## Lanthanum

My pygmy Bonnie showed NO signs of pregnancy, so you can imagine the surprise when I woke up to her screaming bloody murder at 5 in the morning. We had to roll her onto a towel as a stretcher because her baby got stuck, it was her first pregnancy, and rush her to the vet. Unfortunately the baby boy had formed wrong with his head turned back so he couldn't get out the canal. Sadly he was stillborn.

Bonnie's second birth went at the worst timing, with a whole family gathered around. We had about ten guests over to help build her doeing pen because the ultrasound proved she was due about two weeks later, and as we were building, the sun set and she went into labor so we were working on her house she was meant to birth in while she was birthing, IN THE DARK! She took an hour and a half to birth my girl Scout, which didn't help that she was born solid black, and before she had birthed her she oddly released a sack of fluid fully intact before birthing the baby? Then BonBon was more interested in cleaning her than feeding, and her being such a skittish doe we couldn't milk her to bottle feed Scout. And it didn't help that solid black Scout kept wondering off exploring the dark and we had to find her via flash light every five minutes, haha that's how she got her suiting name though


----------



## Lanthanum

Anything yet with your doe?


----------



## nstone630

Lanthanum said:


> Anything yet with your doe?



Nothing so far. Still very fat, udder looking like it wants to pop, vulva swollen, no discharge or mucus. 
What a story!! I can only imagine what mine will be like. Geez, these does sure know how to keep us crazed.


----------



## Lanthanum

nstone630 said:


> Nothing so far. Still very fat, udder looking like it wants to pop, vulva swollen, no discharge or mucus.
> What a story!! I can only imagine what mine will be like. Geez, these does sure know how to keep us crazed.


I am counting on you to keep us updated! Man I really hope things go well with you. I am hoping my doe will give birth this spring. She seems to know what month she has to birth, even though she is an all year round in season breed, she only lets her billy breed her in the fall, even if she goes in heat, he's not allowed until fall and the past two times it's been in March for birth


----------



## nstone630

Lanthanum said:


> I am counting on you to keep us updated! Man I really hope things go well with you. I am hoping my doe will give birth this spring. She seems to know what month she has to birth, even though she is an all year round in season breed, she only lets her billy breed her in the fall, even if she goes in heat, he's not allowed until fall and the past two times it's been in March for birth



I pray everything goes well. I'm very nervous as this is my first kidding along with her first too. As long as everything goes well, I'm taking this as one heck of a learning experience. I'm learning her as a goat and her pregnancy. So if I breed her again, I won't be sitting on the edge of my seat for what seems a year!

And I will for sure keep everyone updated, probably too updated HAHA.

Good luck in the spring! I cannot wait to see all the pictures!


----------



## Lanthanum

Oh yeah, here's a picture from the moment my baby Scout was born. Thought I'd share it 



P.s. How is everything going there?


----------



## norseofcourse

So much for the peaceful, stress-free country life people talk about, eh?   
Sure hope she kids soon and all goes well.


----------



## nstone630

Still not much change.


----------



## TAH

​


----------



## Lanthanum

nstone630 said:


> Still not much change.


She's a beautiful goat ☺


----------



## Goat Whisperer

It's so sweet that the (human) kids are checking on her! Hoping she pops soon! 


Secret Doe code of honor 

1: If you are ready to kid any day, the honor of all the goats is in your hands. Use this time to avenge all of your barnmates. Think about all you friends who and to silly hats or antlers for Christmas cards, pose for pictures, or have you been dressed up by your humans?

2:When you hear the words, " I can't take it any more, she's never going to kid!" wait 3 more days.

3:When you hear "She's nowhere near kidding, we can go (Fill in the blank)," wait until your humans are all cleaned up, dressed up, and ready to go, give a good scream and start pushing.

4: For every moniter, camara, bell, beeper your humans use to keep tabs on your due date, delay delivery by one day. If they are using audio, one good groan per hour will keep them on their toes!

5: You must keep the end-of-pregnancy waiting game interesting! False alarms are mandatory. Little things like looking at your food as if it were gross, digging a little with you hoofs to make a nice nest, and turning your head and talking to your stomach will always get a rise out of your owners!

6:Here's a really important one: Figure out when you owners get ready to go to bed, when they get up, when they shower, and especially when they sit down to a meal. This cannot be allowed! And, don't ever let them use the bathroom in peace. A huge pushing scream (fake one that is) will get them out to the barn in record time. Make sure you look at them with big innocent eyes at this point!

7: Feeding time, when all of your friends are really hungry is a great time to go into real labor! Really make a fuss, so that only half of the feed pans have been filled, water buckets are empty, the barn is in chaos because everyone is hungry and need to be milked, and are using their loudest voices to let your owners know they are hungry and full of milk. Take your time, relax, and enjoy how crazy you are making your humans!

8: Start of with a screaming push if you realize your owner is half dressed. Its fun to see them running to the barn and trying to get dressed at the same time, especially if it's below zero!

9: Make sure you never look "that far along"! That way you can have your kids outside and really start a scramble! The best time to do this when your owner is half dressed and he/she tucks your new slimy baby into their jacket only to find that they threw a jacket on over an unbuttoned pajama top. It's really fun!

10: Make the most of your pregnancy. Beg for food every time there is a human in sight. Your barnmates will love you for this one!

11:This one applies whether you're pregnant of not. Only get your head stuck in the hay feeder when the weather is at its worst, or it's nighttime, otherwise it's really not as much fun. As your owner fumbles with the scrwdriver, make sure you look up at them with your big brown eyes and let them know how appreciative you are.

12: When you are in heat, act like a shameless hussy. Drive those boys to distraction. This will drive your humans to distraction, too!

Now remember girls, this was designed to drive your humans crazy. It will gently remind him/her how special goats really are, especially wen you present them with a beautiful doeling who you can secretly teach The Code to future generations!


----------



## TAH

So true! 
What about going and taking a vacation?


----------



## Lanthanum

Heck, my Bonnie during her first kid would scream bloody murder at about a month and a half before she was even due, so when she actually screamed and meant it, I assumed she was just testing my nerves and it ended up making me too late to save her baby but just in time to save her. So to add to the Doe's Code of Honor: Make your owner ALWAYS assume you mean it when you make false alarms


----------



## TAH

I couldn't believe Naomi any of the times because any time she screams it coukd be because there is a peace of hay is in her water, a fly is bothering her, I am 2 minutes late to milking, she didn't get alfalfa on time, I locked her up and she can't see any of the other goats, I could go on forever about her!


----------



## Lanthanum

TAH said:


> I couldn't believe Naomi any of the times because any time she screams it coukd be because there is a peace of hay is in her water, a fly is bothering her, I am 2 minutes late to milking, she didn't get alfalfa on time, I locked her up and she can't see any of the other goats, I could go on forever about her!


Same thing with Bonnie! Haha goats always have us on the edge of our seats


----------



## nstone630

Still nothing. I believe she is starting to enjoy the attention she's getting from everyone.


----------



## NH homesteader

And also her break from the buck!


----------



## nstone630

NH homesteader said:


> And also her break from the buck!


That's for sure!


----------



## nstone630

Annnnd........still nothing. 
She's enjoying keeping us in this suspense I believe. She had a bit of a cheeky smirk on her face this evening. 
The buck hates even more that we've extended the electric fence so he can't even get to her she of the pen. He's now beginning to ram the gate.  I swear.


----------



## nstone630

Still nothing. She's enjoying some free range time in this nice weather. Buck is locked in her stall.


----------



## nstone630

Just fatter...


----------



## luvmypets

She has got to have twins at least !


----------



## nstone630

I swear she's been "anyday now" for 2 weeks lol  she's eating this up.


----------



## nstone630

But that swollen vulva though  lol thought be tomrrow lol


----------



## OneFineAcre

Do you have know when she was bred?


----------



## nstone630

OneFineAcre said:


> Do you have know when she was bred?


Nope, unfortunately I dont. So its a guessing game.

She's all laying down. And I swear that I am see kicking in her belly. Could that be possible?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

If it was on her right side, it probably is the kid kicking. 

I love feeling for kids on our dairy girls. With my one doe (who has 4 & 5 kids per kidding), you can almost always see kids moving around when she dam is in late gestation. I've gotten quite good at finding kids. 

The "rule of thumb" is that if you see kids kicking you are good for the night. Seems to hold true with the singles but for the does with large litters it's not.


----------



## luvmypets

Not true! I saw ras kicking the day he was born


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Just posting my experience 
That's why I did " ". 
Like I said, with out small little litters it seems to hold true. Big litters are a different story. 

Again, just my experience.


----------



## luvmypets

I know, Im just teasing you


----------



## nstone630

And still nothing lol she's really soaking this up. Getting fatter. No change otherwise. Still nesting pretty hard. 

Christmas kids?  I'd only be so lucky. And of course that'd be the worst timing ever lol when we are trying to visit family and hardly home.


----------



## Latestarter

They always shoot for the most inopportune time for you the owner... I guess it makes them feel more like the queen they aspire to be.


----------



## babsbag

Well, Christmas has come and almost gone in my time zone...any kids.?


----------



## Lanthanum

When my Bonnie was ready to kid, she made a little dirt hole with her paws and slowly rolled around in it both births before the baby started coming. The second time she was all over the place. It took her about 45 minutes to deliver from when labor started. The baby was very healthy though, and today she is my Scout. Just telling my experience in case your doe decides to do the same. Unless she's already done it, how are things there?


----------



## lcertuche

Maybe New Year's?


----------



## nstone630

Maybe new years? Still nothing. *sigh* I will definitely plan pregnancy next time. This is crazy. This ANY day now has been going on for 3 weeks lol


----------



## nstone630

Oh on a good note - I've picked up the goat drench! For in case she needs a boost during labor.


----------



## norseofcourse

I saw you had posted and I got excited, then read that you're still waiting.  So sorry she's driving you nuts.  You WILL look back on this and laugh someday - and you will watch others going through the exact same thing, and smile, and tell them your story...

I had a sheep who was about to lamb 'any day now' for six weeks!  I think yours will kid pretty soon though.  Probably...


----------



## nstone630

norseofcourse said:


> I saw you had posted and I got excited, then read that you're still waiting.  So sorry she's driving you nuts.  You WILL look back on this and laugh someday - and you will watch others going through the exact same thing, and smile, and tell them your story...
> 
> I had a sheep who was about to lamb 'any day now' for six weeks!  I think yours will kid pretty soon though.  Probably...


Pretty soon though. Probably....
hahaha  had me laughing. Yep, this is a learning time. And trust me, I'm learning lol


----------



## nstone630

Only change is possible only a more pink vulva. Other than that...still very pregnant.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

She's making me just as crazy  lol

Tell her you are going on a vacation!


----------



## Green Acres Farm




----------



## nstone630

She Has Nested Her Entire stall. I don't even know how much hay she is actually eating lol 98% of it is spread all over her stall. 

And she keeps taking all the hay out of the "igloo" (goat barrel) as I'm calling it now. And spreading it everywhere. 

Of course I've been off for the last 7 days for vacation and I go back tomrrow. Thank goodness the kids will be home. I will be demanding updates lol


----------



## nstone630

Still not much in change.


----------



## luvmypets




----------



## nstone630

luvmypets said:


>


Tell me about it lol


----------



## nstone630

Nothing new today.  of course she would not choose my day off and 61 degrees to go.  who am I kidding...haha....clearly she's not


----------



## TAH

Did you tell her you're going on a vacation? !


----------



## nstone630

NO, but I'm sure she knows I'm back at work today...
DH called, said when he went out to check her this am "something dripped off her vagina". So, now he cannot tell me what, what color, any real good information lol. But, I'll take it. I told him to keep check on her throughout the day. I'm off at 2pm today, so I will update everyone if any major changes happening when I get home.


----------



## samssimonsays

Babies this year would be awesome after a month of you waiting!!!


----------



## nstone630

samssimonsays said:


> Babies this year would be awesome after a month of you waiting!!!



A month of "any day now" HAHA.


----------



## lcertuche

A facebook friend of mine just posted a pic of two new kids she found out in the field. Sooo cute!


----------



## nstone630

lcertuche said:


> A facebook friend of mine just posted a pic of two new kids she found out in the field. Sooo cute!



Oh my! I cannot wait!


----------



## Latestarter

about one more week...


----------



## nstone630

Happy New Year! And no...no new years kids.  still waiting. But happy to say happy new year to everyone. 

Clearly we are having 2017 kids. Lol


----------



## TAH




----------



## lcertuche

Happy New Year and may your kids be here soon.


----------



## Bowman85

Good luck with your birthing. Next year we will be doing the same thing. Enjoyed reading everyone's stories.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

2017 will her year  lol
She is going to kid on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday. Probably Saturday


----------



## nstone630

Goat Whisperer said:


> 2017 will her year  lol
> She is going to kid on Saturday, Sunday, or Monday. Probably Saturday
> 
> View attachment 26036



I was JUST telling DH that this morning.  
We are ready for it though!


----------



## nstone630

Question - I've been reading up on selenium deficiency....is this something that should have been dosed to the doe PRIOR to conception? What do I need on hand if I have kids that are deficient?


----------



## Southern by choice

If you are in a selenium deficient area (which you are) than most do give Selenium. BoSe  is Rx. Geberally it is given prior to breeding.
Sometimes a doe may be borderline and her kids deficient.
They do sell over the counter gels that may help.

Have you felt or seen any movement?
Was thinking about your doe last night.


----------



## nstone630

Southern by choice said:


> If you are in a selenium deficient area (which you are) than most do give Selenium. BoSe  is Rx. Geberally it is given prior to breeding.
> Sometimes a doe may be borderline and her kids deficient.
> They do sell over the counter gels that may help.
> 
> Have you felt or seen any movement?
> Was thinking about your doe last night.



I've not felt anything, but I have seen "fluttering movements" that looks a lot like kicks to me. 

Is there a specific gel I should have on hand in case needed for any of the kids? I'd rather be prepared then have something wrong and can't do anything because it's 1 am in the snow!?!?


----------



## nstone630

So no good updates. Just fat and happy. At this rate if it doesn't happen this weekend I'll think she has 2 more months to go. Lol


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I hate to even say this lol… years ago there was a member here on BYH that thought get goat was goat was going to kid any moment for two months   
She was a good goat mom and constantly had an eye on her goat. 

I don't think that'll be the case with your girl though. 

Oh- could just be the pic but it looks like she has more than one kid hiding in there! 

Such a shame she doesn't want you to mess with her. It'd be so much easier on you if you could check her ligs.


----------



## babsbag

I started thinking about how many does have freshened at my house and got lost after I counted 75 kiddings.  I have never felt for ligs...what have I been missing all this time? But I will say that 95% of those does had a known breeding date so I have never really felt the "need to know".


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I always feel for the ligs. We always have a date but when they are in that 10 day window it is sooo much easier to tell/guess when they are about to kid.


----------



## babsbag

@Goat Whisperer  Until I met you my goats never went before 155. You somehow changed all of that


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Nope- they are just following the rules


----------



## nstone630

Goat Whisperer said:


> I hate to even say this lol… years ago there was a member here on BYH that thought get goat was goat was going to kid any moment for two months
> She was a good goat mom and constantly had an eye on her goat.
> 
> I don't think that'll be the case with your girl though.
> 
> Oh- could just be the pic but it looks like she has more than one kid hiding in there!
> 
> Such a shame she doesn't want you to mess with her. It'd be so much easier on you if you could check her ligs.



I may have DH help me this evening and check ligs again....It is very stressful to her, and I hate to make her so tense but it might help with a timeline. I'll try and get pictures of when I'm feeling for them, maybe you all can help tell me what it looks like so far. 

It's a wrestling match for me to be able to touch her. She will come up to us on her own will. But as soon as you try and touch or mess in a way she is not comfortable with she bolts. 

She's still squeezing her fat butt into our igloo. At least we know it's mom approved for when the kids come. Especially if during this snow. DH has yet again made a bet that she will kid Friday night or into Saturday. Clearly I'm not holding my breath! 

I will say, I did not dose with Selenium before conception. I didn't even know there was such a thing as selenium deficiency. I will just pray her kids come out ok.


----------



## nstone630

babsbag said:


> I started thinking about how many does have freshened at my house and got lost after I counted 75 kiddings.  I have never felt for ligs...what have I been missing all this time? But I will say that 95% of those does had a known breeding date so I have never really felt the "need to know".



If I had a conception date I'd probably not be such the crazy goat mom here. It's be much less stress knowing a little better when she's due. I won't (plan on) every have a unplanned conception again. Though I can't say never if my boy acts stupid and breaks out. 

I'm actually thinking of asking a fellow local small goat farmer if he wants to keep him with his goats since he doesn't separate or plan pregnancies until I'm ready for him. It is going to be such a pain to have him separated on our land. We don't have it set up for it.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

I know some people will give vitamin e/selenium gel every 30 days for the last 3 months of their goat's pregnancy. You could buy the gel and give some to her. It is sometimes at feed stores. I've seen it on Amazon, too.


----------



## nstone630

Green Acres Farm said:


> I know some people will give vitamin e/selenium gel every 30 days for the last 3 months of their goat's pregnancy. You could buy the gel and give some to her. It is sometimes at feed stores. I've seen it on Amazon, too.



So I can answer my own question - this is safe during pregnancy? With what you've said, it sounds like it. 
I'll check out Tractor Supply.


----------



## nstone630

On Amazon - Does this seem like the right stuff??


*Durvet Sheep & Goat Selenium Vitamin E Gel, 80ml*
by Durvet
23 customer reviews

Price: $12.99 _Free Shipping for Prime Members_
In Stock.
Want it Saturday, Jan. 7? Order within 6 hrs 34 mins and choose Two-Day Shipping at checkout. Details
Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.

Sheep Goat Selenium/Vitamin E Gel. Animal Health Supplies
Manufacturer: DURVET INC D
Manufacturer part number: 001-0319

Unlock extra savings with Subscribe & Save.
Unlock up to 5% on this item when you subscribe to 5 or more items that arrive in the same month. No commitments, no obligations, and shipping is FREE. Learn more


New (7) from $12.99


----------



## NH homesteader

I hope so,  because I have some coming in the mail tomorrow.  My Tractor Supply didn't have it.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

nstone630 said:


> On Amazon - Does this seem like the right stuff??
> 
> 
> *Durvet Sheep & Goat Selenium Vitamin E Gel, 80ml*
> by Durvet
> 23 customer reviews
> 
> Price: $12.99 _Free Shipping for Prime Members_
> In Stock.
> Want it Saturday, Jan. 7? Order within 6 hrs 34 mins and choose Two-Day Shipping at checkout. Details
> Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.
> 
> Sheep Goat Selenium/Vitamin E Gel. Animal Health Supplies
> Manufacturer: DURVET INC D
> Manufacturer part number: 001-0319
> 
> Unlock extra savings with Subscribe & Save.
> Unlock up to 5% on this item when you subscribe to 5 or more items that arrive in the same month. No commitments, no obligations, and shipping is FREE. Learn more
> 
> 
> New (7) from $12.99


That's what's in my Amazon cart, so I hope so.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

NH homesteader said:


> I hope so,  because I have some coming in the mail tomorrow.  My Tractor Supply didn't have it.


Same. My TSC is missing other stuff that other TSCs have.


----------



## Latestarter

It seems there are "great" TSCs and then there are somewhat less than desired TSCs and very little in-between...


----------



## NH homesteader

I have two,  one each direction.  One is good.  One is not so good.  Neither has selenium paste.  But,  it is the only thing  I haven't been able to find.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Why do you think she is deficient? Does she have any of the signs?
I'd wait until the kids are born before you do anything. You can easily overdose on Selenium.

Good to have on hand but because you are newer to this it would probably be best to have someone (preferably a knowledgeable goat vet) look at her first. Having a mineral analysis is best.


----------



## NH homesteader

@Goat Whisperer does a vet do a mineral analysis or do they draw blood and send it out? Is it expensive? I have an appointment set for a goat next week and was going to ask for them to do one but not sure what to expect.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Your vet can send it out or you can pull blood and send it out yourself. 
We had ours sent to a lab in PA.... @Southern by choice probably remembers the name. I think it was PADLS 

If I remember right it was about $35 a test. You do a sampling. If you have a small herd with only a few goats you might want to do a buck, a Sr doe and a Jr doe.


----------



## NH homesteader

Thanks! I only have 4 goats now,  had to downsize to rebuild! I'll talk to the vet Monday.


----------



## Southern by choice

Green Acres Farm said:


> Same. My TSC is missing other stuff that other TSCs have.





Latestarter said:


> It seems there are "great" TSCs and then there are somewhat less than desired TSCs and very little in-between...





NH homesteader said:


> I have two,  one each direction.  One is good.  One is not so good.  Neither has selenium paste.  But,  it is the only thing  I haven't been able to find.



Our TSC's and Southern States stock for what is required for the area.
Our one store has tons of goat stuff another nothing but tons of cattle stuff.
The SS stores are similar.


----------



## babsbag

I routinely give my does Bo-Se a month before they freshen. I don't usually see selenium deficiency in the does, but I used to see it in kids.  Now all my goats get a Multimin 90 injection every 4-5 months. That covers selenium, copper, zinc, and magnesium. 

If you have kids that are weak in the legs or knuckle under when they walk I would ask a vet for the injectable for the kids.


----------



## Hens and Roos

babsbag said:


> I routinely give my does Bo-Se a month before they freshen. I don't usually see selenium deficiency in the does, but I used to see it in kids.  Now all my goats get a Multimin 90 injection every 4-5 months. That covers selenium, copper, zinc, and magnesium.
> 
> If you have kids that are weak in the legs or knuckle under when they walk I would ask a vet for the injectable for the kids.



where do you get the Multimin 90 from?


----------



## nstone630

Great information everyone!! 

So I don't know that she is deficient, that being said should I wait to see if there are issues with the kids? And if there are, can this be given to the kids and have a full recovery?


----------



## plumcreek

Hi, new to goats but have dealt with selenium in horses.  With horses the feed is often fortified with enough to keep things from clinical deficiencies.  I just checked my goat feed and it does contain selenium.  
https://www.purinamills.com/goat-feed/products/purina-goat-chow


----------



## Southern by choice

plumcreek said:


> Hi, new to goats but have dealt with selenium in horses.  With horses the feed is often fortified with enough to keep things from clinical deficiencies.  I just checked my goat feed and it does contain selenium.
> https://www.purinamills.com/goat-feed/products/purina-goat-chow



Most goat feeds do have selenium however not enough. Many don't feed year round and some areas are so deficient goats may need Selenium 2-3x year... other areas  are fine.
Not that our hay comes from another area we give it 1x year. Prior to that my county is not deficient and our hay use to come from here.

BTW- Welcome to BYH!


----------



## babsbag

Hi @plumcreek, welcome to BYH from CA.  Most goat feeds do contain selenium but depending on where you live and the severity of the deficiency it isn't always enough. Overdosing on selenium is possible to so you can't just "throw" extra at them so it can be a tight rope walk. I also feed loose minerals with selenium. I don't notice it in the adult goats, I do notice it in the kids being born and also the numbers have been low when I have had mineral panels done. If the kids are deficient at birth then most likely the dam is too. 

@Hens and Roos  I get Multimin 90 from Valley Vet. It is an Rx. Fortunately my vet is a goat owner and struggles with the same issues so she readily prescribed it for me.  You have to make sure the the SubQ injection gets under all the layers of skin or it can cause an injection site abscess. It became quite obvious that my skills were lacking when my friend and I did my herd last year...all the goats she did were good, mine not quite so much. I do it 2x a year but with the intensive milking this year I will probably bump it to 3. I have some goats with some pretty thin coats out there right now.


----------



## Southern by choice

babsbag said:


> I do it 2x a year but with the intensive milking this year I will probably bump it to 3. I have some goats with some pretty thin coats out there right now.


I know you just started doing this so I am wondering if at some point you will do an analysis to make sure you  don't have toxicity.  If so how often?


----------



## Green Acres Farm

I've heard Mutimin can be easily overdosed. 

What am is in Multimin? Is the amount of minerals present different in each region or always the same stuff?


----------



## Hens and Roos

babsbag said:


> Hi @plumcreek, welcome to BYH from CA.  Most goat feeds do contain selenium but depending on where you live and the severity of the deficiency it isn't always enough. Overdosing on selenium is possible to so you can't just "throw" extra at them so it can be a tight rope walk. I also feed loose minerals with selenium. I don't notice it in the adult goats, I do notice it in the kids being born and also the numbers have been low when I have had mineral panels done. If the kids are deficient at birth then most likely the dam is too.
> 
> @Hens and Roos  I get Multimin 90 from Valley Vet. It is an Rx. Fortunately my vet is a goat owner and struggles with the same issues so she readily prescribed it for me.  You have to make sure the the SubQ injection gets under all the layers of skin or it can cause an injection site abscess. It became quite obvious that my skills were lacking when my friend and I did my herd last year...all the goats she did were good, mine not quite so much. I do it 2x a year but with the intensive milking this year I will probably bump it to 3. I have some goats with some pretty thin coats out there right now.



Good to know about the Multimin 90 @babsbag, at some point I would like to do a mineral analysis to see where levels stand with our goats but the test is pricy!


----------



## nstone630

All my goats get is hay/free range grass/sweet feed from TS. Again, I'm unsure if my doe is even deficient but I figured it won't hurt to have this on hand, if not for this kidding, for the future. I'm just praying they come out happy and healthy! 

We shall see what she decides to do during this snow we're getting tonight. Should be a low of 9 tomorrow and a low of 0 on Monday


----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## Southern by choice

Hens and Roos said:


> Good to know about the Multimin 90 @babsbag, at some point I would like to do a mineral analysis to see where levels stand with our goats but the test is pricy!


it is 35 at padl what is your cost and where


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## Hens and Roos

Southern by choice said:


> it is 35 at padl what is your cost and where



Padl would be the place that I would send sample to.  I have 1 doe who I think we should do for sure.


----------



## nstone630

Hens and Roos said:


> Padl would be the place that I would send sample to.  I have 1 doe who I think we should do for sure.


 padl? What is this? I guess it's be good to get my goats tested for a baseline?


----------



## Hens and Roos

It is Pennsylvania Animal Diagnostics Lab- they run different test on blood samples, etc


----------



## Latestarter

Greetings and welcome @plumcreek  Great to have you with us  Please take a moment and do an intro post in the new member's section so we can welcome you properly! Meanwhile, take your time and browse around! Make yourself at home, and when you feel the need to post, by all means, join right in! If you have questions, most times someone will be along to help directly. If you have some pics of your animals or home place, whatever, please share them as we're a bunch of pic addicts here!


----------



## babsbag

Green Acres Farm said:


> I've heard Mutimin can be easily overdosed.
> 
> What am is in Multimin? Is the amount of minerals present different in each region or always the same stuff?



*GUARANTEED ANALYSIS*
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Zinc.................................................................................. 60 mg/ml
Manganese...................................................................... 10 mg/ml
Selenium............................................................................ 5 mg/ml
Copper............................................................................. 15 mg/ml

It is the same everywhere.  I suppose any thing can be OD but it isn't something that I really worry about. I know my copper and selenium are next to non-existent and these animals (at least the does) are pushed to produce, it takes a huge toll on them.  Copper in the blood is not a reliable test as it is stored in the liver for long term use. So you either go by looks or have a test at necropsy.  Of course none of us WANT to have to have a necropsy done, but I have, and the copper is always low.  When I have to draw blood for Brucellosis testing  I will send some blood samples in for mineral analysis. 

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/nutrition/vitaminsandminerals.shtml

_Recent surveys show that there are many areas deficient in certain minerals. However, the goat is an intelligent animal and usually manages on free range to eat herbs, weeds and other deep rooted plant material which has relatively high mineral content. However, real free range is very rare in the U.K. and for that matter this is true over a large proportion of the world. 

 If a goat of say 40-45kg (88-99 lbs) bodyweight gives 4.5kg (1 gallon or 1.2 US gals)of milk per day that is equal to a cow of 500kg (1100 lbs) giving 50kg (11+ gallons or over 13 US gallons!) No such animal exists. A goat is at least 50% more productive and efficient for its bodyweight than a cow. 

 This means that if a goat is giving its own bodyweight in milk every 10 days or less, it is therefore utilising vast quantities of vitamins and minerals. At its extreme, top goats in the UK have been known to yield consistently 9kg (nearly 20 lbs) of milk per day, which is equivalent to her own bodyweight every 5 days! 

 A goat also needs more minerals and vitamins for maintenance too: with its relatively large digestive system in relation to its body size, the work of digestion involves the use, and loss, of large quantities of minerals. 
_


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## babsbag

It is 18.00 for me to get Selenium test and 18.00 for trace minerals. Blood for Selenium has to be drawn into a purple top tube and the trace minerals into a blue top tube. I will test my best looking goats and the worst. It is really the coats on some of them that don't look good, body condition they are all great.


----------



## Hens and Roos

babsbag said:


> It is 18.00 for me to get Selenium test and 18.00 for trace minerals. Blood for Selenium has to be drawn into a purple top tube and the trace minerals into a blue top tube. I will test my best looking goats and the worst. It is really the coats on some of them that don't look good, body condition they are all great.



what lab do you send the samples to for testing?


----------



## nstone630

No snow kids yet. 
I will say her back side...I guess like her hips are looking super bony. If I didn't know she was being fed so well, she'd look malnurished to me, aside from the huge belly.


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## babsbag

She really is taking this to the max. I feel for you. I have one that will be at 150 days tomorrow so the watch is on here too.



Hens and Roos said:


> what lab do you send the samples to for testing?



I send them to CAHFS.
California Animal Health & Food Safety 

I think that it probably costs more for out of state submissions.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

nstone630 said:


> No snow kids yet.
> I will say her back side...I guess like her hips are looking super bony. If I didn't know she was being fed so well, she'd look malnurished to me, aside from the huge belly.


Pics?


----------



## Hens and Roos

babsbag said:


> She really is taking this to the max. I feel for you. I have one that will be at 150 days tomorrow so the watch is on here too.
> 
> 
> 
> I send them to CAHFS.
> California Animal Health & Food Safety
> 
> I think that it probably costs more for out of state submissions.



Probably, most places do charge more of out of state submissions.

You and @nstone630 can be on watch together!!


----------



## nstone630

It's hard to tell in the pic. But she just looks skinny on her rump. Like the bones around her tail and such. I don't know how else to explain it. I'll try and get a better pic today


----------



## Goat Whisperer

It is hard to see in the pic. Do you feel her hips protruding? Next time you are able to touch her, run your hand down her back and feel her spine, ribs, and brisket. If you can feel them very easily she is to thin. 
She might have lost a bit of weight from being stalled. You are okay to increase her feed if she feels thin.  

Never go by the belly. I've seen goats that had 0 body fat but had a big belly so the owner thought it was fine. Your girl is obviously not to that extent and I think you are able to tell the difference


----------



## babsbag

I have noticed that when the kids drop the does look thinner too.


----------



## nstone630

She seems to have dropped even further today. No other real change. 

She's eating all the hay she wants and also a couple cups of sweet feed a day. 

I pray she doesn't kid tonight. Supposed to be -2 degrees tonight 

She has no other changes, no disharge, not acting funny or anything else. Just fat.


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## Goat Whisperer

He udder is looking big for a first time boer doe 

She has gotta pop soon!


----------



## nstone630

Well, we made it through the coldest night so far. She sure is stretching this mess out. 

I will say, it's getting near impossible for her to fit in and out of the igloo  Like you should hear a "pop" when she gets through HAHA.


----------



## samssimonsays

Hahahaha that is priceless! Hoping she delivers soon when it warms up!


----------



## Southern by choice

Tell her you are going out of town, let her see you "load The car". Yep- she'll kid!


----------



## nstone630

My luck is she's only 4 months along 
Her bag is HUGE. Looks like a punching bag. I now realize how tiny she truly was when I first started this thread....oh how much I've learned since then. Now if she would just kid already!!  
I can tell she is dropping or already has, her belly is low...
I'd say any day now...but geez, I'm in month 2 of "any day now". I just knew with goat code she would kid in the 0 degree snow we had over the weekend. Girl made it through that. She might as well just wait until it's 70 on Friday  Oh how we love NC weather!!! LOL

Thank you to everyone who has been hanging on with me!


----------



## BlessedWithGoats




----------



## samssimonsays




----------



## TAH

When they come it will be perfect timing.


----------



## lcertuche

fingers crossed for you.


----------



## nstone630

Still just fat! 

BUT...I noticed a chart that was posted on lalabugs threat about udders. One picture caught my eye right away because it's just the way my doe looks right now. The one that says "Teats too bulbous". Now...should this be any concern?


----------



## nstone630

So here are some updated pics of fatty. What do yall think about her teats?


----------



## Southern by choice

What are you asking?

I swear she looks like she should be kidding!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I'm shocked she hasn't popped yet 

On the teats, the chart you are looking at is for the "perfect" udder in the dairy goat world. That is what us dairy goat breeders breed for (among other things). Truth is, you will not have the perfect confirmation udder in meat goats. Meat goat breeders just want to make sure the udder is functional for the kids. This is why some bores have extra teats and most don't care. In the dairy goat world it's a terrible sin and is greatly avoided. 

So yes, your girl is weak in the attachments and her teats are bulbous. BUT it looks like she will have a good, functional, udder that will do its job  Not "correct", but I've never seen a boer with a udder with the same udder a proper dairy goat would have. I wouldn't be terribly concerned because she is a meat goat breed. She can still feed her kids, and you can still milk her


----------



## Southern by choice

The role of the udder DOES however make a difference LONG TERM! Poor udders will break down over time.  When there is too high of medial and poor attachment over time you will have an udder pretty much split in two and dragging the ground. This opens the doe up for a higher probability of mastitis issues and the kids having a more difficult time nursing.

Meat goat breeders that DO consider udders and work toward better udders will in the end have better stock, better ability to raise kids, and have longevity.
This is why so many meat goat breeders have to force grain feed the kids very early to get weight on them and many Boers cannot successfully raise twins on their own.
Also why so many want to cross in a Nubian or another dairy breed to help with the lactation issues.


----------



## nstone630

Ok. That's what I was asking...is should I be concerned with how her teats look? From what you are saying she is fine, but to watch her after for splitting or cracking on her teats?


----------



## Southern by choice

No, the picture below is circled to try and explain... the udder is separated it will get worse. An udder like this ends up looking like two footballs hanging down. 
Not actual cracking or splitting.
Her teats are very far forward due to weak rear attachment. Her udder for a Boer isn't bad. Over time it could be a problem. Breeding to a buck that does improve udders would be best for all future does she produces.


----------



## nstone630

Ok. But for kidding this go round I shouldn't be too concerned?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I think she will be fine 
As always, keep and eye on it though.


----------



## Southern by choice

I agree with GW- no worries, she looks so very full I cannot believe she is not poppin' yet!


----------



## nstone630

Ladies, you have no idea lol its like she doesn't  want to give them up.


----------



## Southern by choice

LOL- when she does finally have them you will need to send pics to the vet that did the ultrasound and saythat was the LONGEST week (or 3 whichever he said) EVER!


----------



## nstone630

Southern by choice said:


> LOL- when she does finally have them you will need to send pics to the vet that did the ultrasound and saythat was the LONGEST week (or 3 whichever he said) EVER!


It's been 2 months I believe since she's been here lol or just about lol I'm going to call them and tell them. This waiting game has been crazy. They said "she should kid soon, within a week". O..m..g...


----------



## nstone630

No discharge, no nothing...just fatter. Haha.


----------



## Latestarter

wonder if this is a false pregnancy... Just throwing it out there...


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I believe the vet saw a kid on the ultrasound.


----------



## Latestarter

That's the same vet that said due in a week or less, right?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Yes, but that is something I mentioned when they first discovered she was bred. I haven't seen anyone be very accurate on telling when they are due. This isn't the first time I've seen this


----------



## NH homesteader

It's much easier to tell if there is a kid than tell how far along, I would imagine!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

NH homesteader said:


> It's much easier to tell if there is a kid than tell how far along, I would imagine!




Much depends on the machine as well.


----------



## Latestarter

OK... I'll stop being contentious... was primarily joking around in any case. Sure hope she pops soon.


----------



## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> OK... I'll stop being contentious... was primarily joking around in any case. Sure hope she pops soon.



I thought it was funny and it did make me go.... ahhhhhhhhhhhhh you may be on to something there! 
Turns out she is actually bred so I guess that part was right!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

LOL @Latestarter I thought you were serious!


----------



## Southern by choice

goofball


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Relating to this guy right now LOL 



 Hopefully y'all can appreciate this meme and get the meaning LOL


----------



## Goat Whisperer

@nstone630 sorry for getting off topic


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## babsbag

We have a vet from UC Davis that is very good telling dates; mine doesn't even try


----------



## Latestarter

Goat Whisperer said:


> @nstone630 sorry for getting off topic



A likely story... It is after all what we all do...


----------



## nstone630

Latestarter said:


> wonder if this is a false pregnancy... Just throwing it out there...


Ultrasound said otherwise lol That's why I paid the extra money so I wouldn't have to even question that. Because at this point I would think she's just eating this mess up and getting fluffy was just her style. But, I can say, there was at least 1 kid on the ultrasound. 

She is still holding out. Getting bigger each day. Her udder looks huge. I just knew that we'd come home after being "out of town" yesterday to some kids...nope, just her being fat


----------



## NH homesteader

How's your buck doing? Is he still trying to bust in there?


----------



## nstone630

Latestarter said:


> That's the same vet that said due in a week or less, right?


 Yes, the same vet that said a week or so....almost 8 weeks ago. 
DH is the one who called the doe on it...he swore she was pregnant, I didn't believe him. So I called the vet, who also didn't do pregnancy tests on goats, only offered the ultra sound. And I was proven wrong. She was carrying at least 1 kid. 

DH and I have taken this into consideration and clearly by the time we "think" she is pregnant, she's probably half way through. 

This has been nothing but super educational. And it REALLY has me understanding how important, or at least less stressful, a planned pregnancy is.


----------



## nstone630

NH homesteader said:


> How's your buck doing? Is he still trying to bust in there?


 
He's calmed down for the most part. He is still pretty aggressive for no reason though. He was actually breaking one of my gates that had chain link on it. I had to look my electric to make the whole darn gate hot she he's stop ramming it!  And the kids don't go in there, he trapped them in their tree house a weekend ago.That was a fun call to get while at work.  I've boarded up her stall pretty well, so I believe he's just given up on being able to get in there. Plus she stays away from that side now.


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry, but there's no need for an aggressive animal... I'd say make him goat burger and get a new, healthy, happy, friendly one. As an aside, there is some thought that his actions/behavior may be genetic and can be passed along...


----------



## Southern by choice

Yeah, that is called dog food.


----------



## NH homesteader

Any possibility him living alone could make him aggressive or is this beyond that?


----------



## nstone630

He never was this way until we took my doe away from him. Before then he was sweet, the kids would play with him and he NEVER messed with me. If he wasn't in the mood to be handled, he'd still let me with no problems. Since we've separated him he's even rammed me  I just hate that he was so sweet and docile to now what I dreaded...a mean goat that out weighs me by 100 lbs. And I worry that he is going to stay this way


----------



## NH homesteader

Can you get him a friend?


----------



## babsbag

If your doe has a buckling maybe whether him and keep him as a companion for your buck. If he was sweet before I wouldn't give up on him yet.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

How old is he? I thought he would end up being aggressive based on earlier posts 
How did the kids play with him? 

Generally bucks don't get aggressive after being alone. Depressed? Maybe, but not this type of aggression. 

Because of this behavior, you can NEVER trust this buck! Don't turn your back on him, and don't let your kids in with him. 

A couple years back I bought this really nice lamancha buck. I saw him as a yearling and really liked him, so when he was available I pursued the opportunity. This buck was very "sweet". The owners would pet him and let the buck rub on them. I don't think they taught him how to respect people. 
I got him as a 2 y/o. That "sweet" buck couldn't respect anybody's space, and when disciplined he acted terrible. That is why I'm a huge believer in teaching them YOUNG. It got to the point where he was extremely dangerous. He would try to take anyone on and could have killed somebody if he were given the chance. He didn't start as a mean buck, it progressed. So I do have to disagree with Babs on this, just because he was "sweet" before doesn't mean he will get sweet again. Not trying to cause an argument here, just posting my .02 because, sadly, I have been through it with a mean buck 

Something I have learned with bucks is that life is short. Don't risk yourself for a dangerous animals. I almost got attacked by the buck above when he had gotten tangle in some wire. I'll just leave it at It's a darn good thing I could run fast and jump the 4 ft fence in time…

We had a friend's buck here waiting to go to slaugher. I had to go into his pen, and even though he seemed fine at first, he ran behind me and hooked my leg with his horn, right behind the knee- causing me to fall. He wasn't a huge buck but STRONG. Thankfully I was wearing my thickest pair of jeans that day. He completely shredded them. That would have been my legs and back had I been wearing light duty pants. 
It took 2 fit, 6ft tall guys to pull him off of me. 

I know several people who have been severely injured by boer bucks and another lady who was almost killed by a Nubian buck. 

I have now become a huge believer in HOW they are raised up and like to get all my bucks as young as possible. I will (probably) never get an adult buck again. It seems like the older they are, the more behavior issues I need to work out. All our other bucks are great. I sell goats to people who have children, those buck need to have manner! 

I'm not saying you should get rid of your buck tomorrow- just sharing what I have gone through. It's one thing to have a buck acting "bucky" that needs to be taught, but another to have an aggressive animal.


----------



## nstone630

I appreciate all the opinions on here, and I know there can be differences, but they are all helpful. 

DH and I have discussed what the bucks future may be. We haven't come up with any strong decision as of yet. Right now, I stay away and the kids do to. Unless I have something to fend him off with. If this behavior continues after the birth of the kids...he will go.  Either for slaughter of our own, or sell for slaughter. As much as I can say I'm "attached" to him...I know his purpose. And when it comes to my safety or my children, sorry buddy - he will become a taco! 

I'm still learning my buck and doe as far as breeding goes as well. He may, no matter how handsome looking, might not have the genes I need. I'm very interested in getting a Kiko buck in the future to blend. Bucks have one purpose only...breeding. And if they can't do that right, send them down the road. I'm also thinking of possibly using a stud buck, if there is such a thing? Where I won't have to worry about having a buck on site with my ladies aggravating them 24-7 and risking unplanned pregnancies with young does.

These are all things I will have to decide once the kids are born....whenever the heck that might be.  

I did check on her this morning, and she was laying down, didn't get up right away. But as soon as the mention of sweet feed, she jumped right up. Silly fatty!  I don't believe she can fit into the igloo any longer, I haven't seen her in it since the snow weekend. And she was struggling to get in and out of it then  I swear...any day now


----------



## nstone630

Oh and he is 2 yr old


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Our "sweet" lamancha buck was right around 2 when he started turning aggressive. I wish the owners realized that and corrected him when he was a younger buck!

Ok, just to warn you IF you decided send your buck to freezer camp- buck meat is   
It tastes how buck smells- that isn't an exaggeration either. When you cook it, the whole kitchen smells of buck (ask me how I know this lol) So, if you decide to go that route, you might want to sell him to someone that enjoys that flavor sick!)
Unless, of course you like the taste of buck lol. If would be your first time trying goat meat, I don't recommend you eat the meat from an intact buck. It's a great way to turn you off from goat meat, which is quite good if they are a wether or doe 

Many years ago in the "olden" days when we only had 3 goats we looked at doing the same thing. It was to great of a risk. We opted to get our own, tested, bucks to breed our does. 

If you do find someone you are able to lease from, it would be wise to still have a buck pen, unless you are great at tracking the does heat cycles. If you want a reliable date to go by, you want to hand breed IOW only put them together when the doe is in heat, let the buck do the deed, and then remove him. 


You need to go tell your doe the game is over and let those babies free


----------



## babsbag

@Goat Whisperer I didn't say that he would be sweet again, I just said that I would give him a chance...you never know.


----------



## nstone630

@Goat Whisperer Thank you for telling me about the buck meat. I can't stand the smell of a buck LOL and if that was in my kitchen I'd probably move! 
There are some Hispanics that every time they come over they offer to buy him. I will talk to DH and see what he thinks. 

About a buck pen...That is going to be such a hassle. Are your pens big? I don't think I have enough room right now to fence off a section just for him. How much room does 1 buck need to be free range and have enough to eat? I don't want to have to feed him hay all year long. If we can pen him up, I may keep him. 

Checked on fatty this morning...still just fat. Udder looks huge. And as big as her teats are right now, I'm sure they have to be uncomfortable to her!!  And the wait continues. 

I'm back to dream land, had a dream last night that she had twins and I was there, it was beautiful.  I hope at this point there is actually more than 1 kid, because I'd worry about how darn big 1 kid is going to be.


----------



## nstone630

Some updated good pics of my doe. I also was able to feel movement. My DH held her and she did great. I also took pics of me checking ligs (still not sure I'm doing that right)


----------



## nstone630

Some more photos. I let her out for recess today for about an hour after work. Was 65 degrees and sunny. She's liking the fresh grass.


----------



## nstone630

Also this is new...eating on her elbows??


----------



## norseofcourse

Looking good - should only be a few more weeks now!


----------



## nstone630

norseofcourse said:


> Looking good - should only be a few more weeks now!


Yep....any day now for another month. Lol 
I'm guessing Valentines day!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I can tell you this for certain... She is at least a little closer to kidding today than she was yesterday 
I don't know how she hasn't popped yet! 





This is a pretty good video, I feel the whole way down the rump. 
I've been able to wrap my fingers around the tail like pictured, but the ligs are still there. 

I just can't wait to see what she has! She better give a lovely doeling after all this


----------



## nstone630

And yes they goats have their own play set in the pasture lol


----------



## nstone630

So this is another first...laid down twice while I was out there. 

DH says he's bettin she will kid before Sunday.


----------



## luvmypets

This reminds me of my first lambing, I waited for months and the ewe just loved all the attention.


----------



## babsbag

My goats start taking to me or to their belly. Then they start digging in the hay. Then they eat and dig some more.


----------



## nstone630

any day now ...though I will be old and grey by then lol


----------



## babsbag

I think that this is the most watched goat on BYH right now. I am sure she is loving the popularity.


----------



## nstone630

She looks miserable when trying to lay down. She's getting much better with the attention, hated it in the beginning. Now she will stay much calmer when I'm in the pen. Actually let me touch her belly without being held (not for very long though). 

I checked on her last night before I went to bed, then 3am, 5am,  I'm dragging at work today. I will say when she is laying down you can visually see "movement" in her belly. And I believe a rule of thumb (though for does, they have their own rules) is if there is movement you might be ok for the night?  I also when feeling her yesterday was able to feel low on what would have been her left side (my right if looking head on at her) and feel movement very low on her abdomen. Having been pregnant before myself I kind of have an idea what to feel for. Assuming it's similar. I could push gently and feel what is probably elbows or some bony structure in there. Which happened to kick back at me with pushed on lol 

When she stands from laying down for a couple hours she limps...I wonder if this could be due to the weight on the one back leg with the way she is laying in the picture.


----------



## babsbag

Her rumen is on her left side and most of the time the movement you see on that side is her rumen and not a baby. The baby is on the right.  Not sure about what you feel though, no experience with that. 

The limp is probably a pinched nerve or as you suspect, the way she lays down.


----------



## nstone630

babsbag said:


> Her rumen is on her left side and most of the time the movement you see on that side is her rumen and not a baby. The baby is on the right.  Not sure about what you feel though, no experience with that.
> 
> The limp is probably a pinched nerve or as you suspect, the way she lays down.



So if she is having twins they are both on the right? Sorry, I don't know goat anatomy like that. I will now though. The movement I "saw" was on her right side while laying down, so that might have been baby. But...what I felt while she was standing was on her lover belly...oh lord, who knows.  I"m just ready for her to have them. 

If you see the last pic I posted, that was the position she was in when I saw what I believe was baby movement. Which would be her right side right? (slowly losing my mind )


----------



## babsbag

Yes, that would be her right side and when laying down like that you would probably see them as the are kinda pushed up and out, no where else to go.  She is making you lose your mind, an old goat trick.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Don't they wait until you lose your mind before kidding


----------



## nstone630

I will never under estimate the doe code after this. What a learning experience for myself and my doe, both first timers with this. I actually went back to when I first posted that the ultra sound confirmed my preggers doe. It was 8 WEEKS AGO! Now I know it all depends on the doe on when they "start to show"? 2 months? 3 months?..but tell me I don't have another freaking month to go?! I think you may have to put me in the loony bin  if that is the case.


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## nstone630

Woke up to this. 1 buckling 1 doelong. 

Boy is good and sturdy. Girl has a wobbly back left leg...


----------



## NH homesteader

finally!!!


----------



## nstone630

Should I be concerned with the girls left back leg? Seems she can't get it up under her right. 

Does colostrum is like syrup. Milked out and kept some. Going to tractor supply to get nipple and bottles in case they are needed. In the mean time we are ablessed to let them latch on and actually milk her for them to drink. I can visibly seethe colostrum they are getting at the corner of their mouths. Just like a new born baby human. 

So far so good. Mom has been letting me milk with out having to hold her. And let me around the babies with no trouble. The girl is a vocal little thing if I pick her up lol


----------



## Hens and Roos

Congrats on the new arrivals!!  Not sure on the back leg, does she try and put weight on it?


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

Congratulations!! I hope the doelings leg gets better!
Tagging some people that may be able to help, among others. @Goat Whisperer @babsbag @OneFineAcre @goatgurl


----------



## nstone630

She does try and put weight on it. But just seems to drag a bit.


----------



## lcertuche

Wow, congrats. Just think it only took 8 weeks, lol. So cool have 2 little bundles of joy.


----------



## Hens and Roos

nstone630 said:


> She does try and put weight on it. But just seems to drag a bit.



Maybe from how she was laying inside the doe


----------



## nstone630

She's passed all the after birth. Mom seems well.


----------



## norseofcourse

WOOHOO!!!  Finally


----------



## OneFineAcre

I'd give the leg some time
Sometime it gets twisted funny in the uterus
Congrats


----------



## luvmypets




----------



## luvmypets

You must be thrilled!


----------



## nstone630

The girl fell asleep while I held her. I'm spoiling them. 
They are checking out the igloo 

The boy is already so jumpy lol they bounce around for awhile then sleep...bounce around then sleep. Lol tiring being born I guess.

Mom is doing GREAT with them. 

HAPPY BIRTHDAY


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## lalabugs

Congrats! Finally babies! They are adorable.


----------



## NH homesteader

They're so cute! Did you send a picture to the vet and ask if they look like they're about 7 weeks old?


----------



## nstone630

Just weighed them. Boy is a good 7 lbs. And girl is 6 lbs.


----------



## Latestarter

Congrats! What a sweet pic with you holding the sleeping doeling  Glad everything went off so well. What a great thing to wake up to in the morning huh?   Hope the little girl's leg straightens out over time.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

So glad they made it!   Great pics.


----------



## TAH

OMG...That was the longest wait I have seen on a goat! 

I am so happy they finally came! 

! 

I agree with OFA. 

Lovely


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I'm so happy for you! They are just darling!

Don't you love be that newborn goat cry? Sweetest thing ever! 

I had a feeling your girl had more than one kid, so happy you have your doeling!


----------



## nstone630

Goat Whisperer said:


> I'm so happy for you! They are just darling!
> 
> Don't you love be that newborn goat cry? Sweetest thing ever!
> 
> I had a feeling your girl had more than one kid, so happy you have your doeling!


They are loud little sucker lol


----------



## nstone630

Latestarter said:


> Congrats! What a sweet pic with you holding the sleeping doeling  Glad everything went off so well. What a great thing to wake up to in the morning huh?   Hope the little girl's leg straightens out over time.



Probably the most excited I've been since I had my own two children born. I had tears of joy! God blessed us this morning.


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## nstone630

So tiny


----------



## lalabugs

We have kid fever over here. These babies are just adding to it.  Adorable.


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## Goat Whisperer




----------



## babsbag

Congratulations. I bet you are glad that the wait is over.  The one morning I don't check BYH and you have kids. So glad it went well.

The wonky leg isn't all the uncommon, I would just watch if for a few days. Sometimes they have to a have a splint for a few days but most often they just need time.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

How are the little munchkins doing today? 

I bet you are having a hard time leaving the barn Lol


----------



## nstone630

Yes, every moment I was home and able I was out in the barn spoiling them rotten. 

The girls leg is MUCH better, even as of yesterday. She's walking and trying to jump around. Both of them love the igloo to sleep in, just as cozy as when in mom I guess. 

I can tell you all that I am so in love with them both! Mom did great too. She is such a good momma to them. 

I'll post more pics today


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## nstone630

I am just in love. With this being the first time we have kidded, I'm in heaven. Things went so wonderful, and MoonPie is being the best mom ever. 

I'm unsure on how to post videos?


----------



## luvmypets

Im in love! Birthing season has started on BYH and I am getting baby fever 

For videos, I upload them to youtube then click the little film icon in the BYH text box and you attach the link to the video.


----------



## nstone630




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## luvmypets

Oh my god! So precious


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## nstone630

I couldn't be happier. The fact I have to be at work today and away from them all day is killing me. 4:30 CANNOT come soon enough!!!! 

I'm checking on them like new born babies, last night before I went to bed. I have this fear I'll go out and something will be wrong. And I think that is just PTSD from the rough start up with goats we've had so far. No way this could be so perfect...

But I went out at 9pm last night and the little girl just bouncing around like a jumping bean.   Lets say I went to bed with a calm and full heart.


----------



## nstone630

Oh...and update on the "d*ck wad" AKA my Boer Buck. My husband was on his side. He wanted to "test" him over the weekend and show to me he wasn't mean, that he was just trying to play. 
I am scared of him, and DH knows this. He told me to come in the field and not show him fear, just come in do what I needed and walk back out. I wouldn't.  
Well, DH got frustrated with me about this. Saying he wasn't going to get rid of him just on opinions. 

Last night was his last straw. I was out googling over the babies and DH was in the pasture/barn section that the buck has access to. DH was testing him. Walked up to him, he reared up on his hind legs twice landing inches away from DH's legs both times. DH was proud of himself saying "see, if you don't let on like you want to play he isn't going to mess with you". 

YEA RIGHT! DH tried to walk forward to get to the gate to come out, the buck charged him. Now, my DH is not a small man. 6'2" 240 lbs, and not much of that is fat. My buck almost put DH on his a$$. DH had to find something to hit him with to try and get him off him. He did 2-3 times before the buck even thought of letting up. DH admitted had that been me on one of our kids we never could have fought him off. Since even DH struggled to get him off of him! 

Anyways. Long story short...well kind of...We will be getting rid of my buck.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

nstone630 said:


> We will be getting rid of my buck.


Good plan!


----------



## NH homesteader

Sometimes husbands have to figure it out like that. Seems like a good decision, particularly because you have children.


----------



## samssimonsays

Congrats on the babies. And I understand! We had a similar issue with our Wether and myself. My husband loved him and when food wasn't involved, he was a great goat. BUT, he was a jerk to all but one of our goats and he jumped up and slammed me into the side of the barn leaving bruises on my collar bones and banged my head against the barn wall. I ended up spending more time chasing him around to make him submit than I could actually enjoy the goats so I was done. Exhausted and just done. He went to a pet home with a friends wether and that wether beat him up a little and he is now a great goat. Just needed another goat to put him in his place and none of ours would. With yours, I feel that is not the case.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

I am so glad your little ones are doing well.  Great pictures and video!
Boar bucks can be a real challenge and time consuming.  So unless he is a Grand Champion, it is good he will be leaving the farm.


----------



## nstone630

He's a proven breeder, that's it. No grand champion blood line that I'm aware of. Just a big ole Bore Buck. 

Last night, the little girl decided to show us how she knows to get out of the stall.  sneaky little devil. She squeezed herself between the gate and wall. We watched patiently to see (since this put her in with d*ck wad)...she did ok for a few minutes, then he went and shoved her to the ground. Again proving why he needs to go. I'll be darned if he will ruin the ONE doeling we have. So we fixed the gate last night and now she is stuck. She was very displeased when she went back over to her little escape route and it was blocked LOL  And I thought it would have been the boy that was the mischievous one.


----------



## luvmypets

We had a little girl who did the same thing, she escaped her pen and would bound around the barn. She did get lonely though, and then she would scream for mom


----------



## lcertuche

Some girls just want the bad boys.


----------



## nstone630

Update on mom. Kids are good.
Mom has still been leaking bright red blood since Saturday. I took her temp last night 106.2 Called the vet, they set out antibiotics and fever reducer. I gave both last night at 9pm, brought her temp to 104. This morning it is back to 105.8
I called the vet, they will be out to look at her at 12pm today. 

Also - her bag has shrunk to a third of the size it was. This morning if I tried to produce milk to make sure she still has a steady flow, there is nothing. I can't even get a drop out of her. Now, the kids could have dried her out? Will she fill back up? DH is on the way to tractor supply as we speak to get milk replacement just in case. 

I'm a mess.  I'm at work, but I will leave to go meet the vet if DH cannot today at 12pm. Please keep MoonPie in your thoughts! Even though I know she cannot be feeling well, she's still trying to be a good mom to the kids. I am VERY concerned about her lack of milk production. What is normal?


----------



## samssimonsays

Hoping for the best for her and the kids! Good luck!


----------



## NH homesteader

Yikes I don't know... I hope the vet is able to help!

@Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice @babsbag 

And others...


----------



## Hens and Roos

Hope your doe is okay


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Hoping for the best!


----------



## nstone630

OK. Vet came by. She still has a 106 fever. The vet checked her cervix and uterus. She is thinking uterine infection. She gave me 3 days worth of banamine for the fever and also 1 additional dose of the exceede antibiotic to give on Saturday. She told me I need to beef up her food. Shes very malnourished. I got her some alfalfa hay to mix into her regular hay. Also a goat mineral block. The vet gave her a b12 injection. Also gave instruction to get her into the pasture to free graze and stall the mean buck so she can move around and eat fresh. 

 

I'm now back at work. Will let her free range once me and DH get home this afternoon.


----------



## nstone630

Also, vet told me to supplement milk replacement 2 times a day while the doe is sick. She't not producing like she should. Could be due to the fever or also being malnourished. The kids are literally sucking her dry of everything!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Hope she improves!  Glad you had the vet out!


----------



## babsbag

It could be because she is sick, it could be because they are porkies, and it could be because of the feed. All three will play a part. I would NOT do a milk replacer. Use whole cow's milk, please trust me on this, they will do just fine on cow's milk from the grocery store. Milk replacer makes so many kids sick it is just crazy. And you might have a heck of a time getting those kids to take a bottle. Pritchard nipple and a plastic soda bottle is what you will need to feed them.  My vet would have given the doe a uterine flush with tetracycline and possibly a uterine bolus. I hope the antibiotic works ok. 

Do you have her on a good grain too? The Purina Goat Chow, the dairy parlor one, that they sell at TSC is good. Oh, and you need to let the kids keep on nursing to keep her stimulated or it may dry up her milk entirely.


----------



## Southern by choice

Personally I think the choice of anti-biotics is a poor one. The fever is high and did not substantially come down either and is not going to when the next dose is 4 days out.
Most vets want Penn for something like this because it keeps a steady stream in the system to battle infection. It is a PITA at 2x day but far better in the long run. Long lasting is IMO not a good choice for high fever/serious infection. I also do not understand the not doing a uterine flush.

We already talked about the milk- whole milk is best.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Just showed you posted, but then the post disappeared 

Goats milk would be best. 
Next would be whole cow milk. 

I've seen a lot of kids die from replacer and I'm scared to use it. I used replacer once and didn't have good results. Kids lived, but never grew or are like they should, until they were put on cows milk. You just have to be able to make the choice and hope it's a good one. 

We've raised kids on cows milk with no ill affects. 

If you use a replacer, make sure it isn't soy based.


----------



## nstone630

babsbag said:


> Do you have her on a good grain too? The Purina Goat Chow, the dairy parlor one, that they sell at TSC is good. Oh, and you need to let the kids keep on nursing to keep her stimulated or it may dry up her milk entirely.



She's on Purina Goat Chow as of Friday, it also said that it was good in helping producing milk. The kids are still nursing, just getting frustrated.


----------



## nstone630

Goat Whisperer said:


> We've raised kids on cows milk with no ill affects.



Ok. I'll also add some goat probiotic to it. 

DH just had reservations on the whole milk bc he talked to the lady at Tractor Supply (who also raises goats) and said not to give them that at all! 

Now, with the whole milk, should I expect any diarrhea with the change?


----------



## nstone630

Here is a silly question. Our Walmart sells goats milk, right next to the cow milk in the grocery section. Would that be better? If I can't get any local fresh goats milk.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

They could get a little runny. Start with small amounts. Adding the probiotics is good! 

I do understand your Dh's concerns! That is the hard thing with goats! So much conflicting information it's hard when you are newer to goats!

DO NOT feed them until they just stop eating. You don't want to overfeed them! Overfeeding can cause all kinds of issues, just go slowly.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

nstone630 said:


> Here is a silly question. Our Walmart sells goats milk, right next to the cow milk in the grocery section. Would that be better? If I can't get any local fresh goats milk.


Is it pasteurized? 
Goat milk would be best!


----------



## nstone630

Since it's so hard to tell what they are getting with mom....how do I know we aren't over feeding them:?


----------



## nstone630

Goat Whisperer said:


> Is it pasteurized?
> Goat milk would be best!



I don't know. I'd have to look at the container. I believe it is ultra-pasteurized.


----------



## Latestarter

How is something completely natural (cows milk) NOT better than something artificial (replacer)? Methinks the TSC lady wants to sell TSC products...


----------



## nstone630




----------



## nstone630

Latestarter said:


> How is something completely natural (cows milk) NOT better than something artificial (replacer)? Methinks the TSC lady wants to sell TSC products...



I understand that point of view....DH is just being overly cautious. I don't think either one of us was ready to have to bottle feed. I didn't do enough research on this BEFORE they kidded. Lesson learned.  So now we are scrambling like idiots to try and make the best uneducated decision. 

I'm sticking with you guys!!! You haven't let me down yet!


----------



## nstone630

DH has let me know that my doe has been out in the pasture grazing for over an hour and been eating! He has given her a break from the kids, stalled them back up. She's now laying down and eating grass in the pasture.  The buck is tied up so he will not bother her while she is out there.


----------



## babsbag

I have raised many a kid on cow's milk. I honestly wouldn't spend the money on the goat's milk from the store, it is $$$.  If they are nursing and not getting anything at all I would give them about 4 oz and see if they still act starved. It is better that they are a little hungry than over full. If they are super hungry at the first bottle they will overeat. They may be getting some from mom too and you just don't notice. Kids will nurse frequently for very short times, like 10 seconds.


----------



## Latestarter

You do have a great deal of experience here to draw on/from. Probably well over 100 years worth if you take into account the age of some of the old goats on here...   Seriously, Hope she recovers from whatever is ailing her. I know this is a huge strain on you folks as well and you're doing the best you can to do what's right and best. Try not to get too stressed out yourselves.


----------



## babsbag

And, that goat's milk is disgusting. I know I wouldn't drink it and the kids might not either. It is the same brand we have out here, actually the dairy is in CA, and it just taste horrible.


----------



## nstone630

Latestarter said:


> You do have a great deal of experience here to draw on/from. Probably well over 100 years worth if you take into account the age of some of the old goats on here...   Seriously, Hope she recovers from whatever is ailing her. I know this is a huge strain on you folks as well and you're doing the best you can to do what's right and best. Try not to get too stressed out yourselves.



Thank you so much


----------



## nstone630

babsbag said:


> And, that goat's milk is disgusting. I know I wouldn't drink it and the kids might not either. It is the same brand we have out here, actually the dairy is in CA, and it just taste horrible.


Good to know haha...I was shocked at the price!


----------



## babsbag

One more thing, has anyone warned you about how hard it can be to get a kid on a bottle that when they are used to mom?  Even with no dam in the picture it can literally take 2-3 days of the kid starving before they will take the bottle. And if they are going back to the dam and getting milk it may very well be much much harder.


----------



## nstone630

babsbag said:


> One more thing, has anyone warned you about how hard it can be to get a kid on a bottle that when they are used to mom?  Even with no dam in the picture it can literally take 2-3 days of the kid starving before they will take the bottle. And if they are going back to the dam and getting milk it may very well be much much harder.



At the point of them refusing the bottle for 2-3 days, if they are hungry enough won't they end up just taking it?? You'd think so. 

Mom still has a temp of 105  Vet said if it has not dropped by Saturday to call them again. 

I picked up whole milk yesterday on the way home, DH gave them some this morning. They are not thrilled about the bottle. He said he let mom smell the bottle (possibly helping it smell like her so the kids would be more welcoming) and she wanted to drink the milk?!  He didn't let her. Wonder why she's wanting milk?


----------



## Southern by choice

Some kids will just die instead of taking it.
There are ways to successfully get them on the bottle.
We don't have any babies right now but maybe we can get a video of some of the ways we do it. Just a thought.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Some of our does will drink milk whenever it's offered, even the 3yr olds. But they were raised as bottle babies so that is normal. If you girl wasn't a BB I would think her body is craving it for the nutrition. I have observed this with some of our other goats in the past. 

How are the babies bellies? Do they look sunken in? How do they feel? What are you doing when you are offering the bottle?

Really hoping your girl gets better soon!


----------



## babsbag

That temp would have me worried. It is too bad that she didn't do the flush or the uterine bolus. By now the cervix may be closed and if so she can't get in to do a flush. I don't know how long a cervix stays open...maybe as long as there is discharge she could do one. IDK. Hope that the doe turns around here soon.

I have a couple of does that would drink the milk. They love it.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

babsbag said:


> That temp would have me worried. It is too bad that she didn't do the flush or the uterine bolus. By now the cervix may be closed and if so she can't get in to do a flush. I don't know how long a cervix stays open...maybe as long as there is discharge she could do one. IDK. Hope that the doe turns around here soon.


My thinking too. Hoping the temp drops soon


----------



## nstone630

So it's ok to let her drink cows milk if she wants it? 

And the vet checked her cervix yesterday and it was not closed. She mentioned that it was good, so that if there is infection it has not been trapped. If the fever continues to Saturday I will ask for them to do a uterine bolus...

The babies bellies seem full, not sunken in. I will check again this evening when I get home. DH has been the one that has bottle fed, I've been at work at these times. By doing so, he's grown very attached to both little kids. I'll talk to him more tonight about technique and how it's been going. He says he's able to get them to take the bottle. 

The bright red bleeding/dripping has stopped. That may be a good sign? There has been no fresh blood for close to 48 hours. She is eating hay, drinking water and munching on her mineral block. She was let out to the pasture yesterday and ate nothing but green grass for almost 2 hours. She will do the same today. Hoping to get some meat back on her bones. Last night milk could be expressed from her teats. Obviously we only tested once, as not to waste what is there! 

I'll check her temp again tonight and update with any change.


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## Sunny Searle

Good luck, hope she continues to improve!


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## TAH

I am not sure if anyone as already mentioned it but make sure she doesn't get molasses. 

Hope she improves!


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## nstone630

Noticed this on my doeling tonight....
???


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## babsbag

My first guess (and only) would be a staph infection. Just what you need, right? I would scrub her with Hibiclens, you can get it at Walmart and probably just about any pharmacy.


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## nstone630

babsbag said:


> My first guess (and only) would be a staph infection. Just what you need, right? I would scrub her with Hibiclens, you can get it at Walmart and probably just about any pharmacy.


Everything I've googled says staph  just what I need. Seriously. 
I can get it tomorrw after work from walmart. No sooner. 

Do I scrub in the intent to pop the bumps? Or just to wash gently? Also is this something I need to be worried about the buckling getting? *sigh* 



Ok...melt down over. I need something to go right. These kids are perfect. I can't let something happen to them. Also, can we catch the staph?


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## samssimonsays

Anyone or thing can catch staph. It depends on how strong our immune systems are. But I believe it is on our skin and most every surface at all times, a scratch or upset can trigger it, most times it wont. We treated our dog for Staph infection where she had small bug bite like bumps on her belly and itched outrageously.


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## nstone630

These are on the poor girls bum! Can't catch a break! 

I've done some reading up on it and a couple sites  say to clean it with 7% iodine to help dry the blisters up. And also, someone on here recommended an antimicrobial soap that I'll get. The blisters are not popped, and I'm planning on leaving them that way. no reason to release infection when it's nicely contained in the tiny bumps. They are about the size of a large ant bit. I looked this morning at them, and they actually seemed less red/angry than they did last night. I'll wash her bum tonight in the iodine. I don't think it's at the point of needing antibiotics. 

I'll wear gloves while cleaning the area and wash hands after. I'm not gloving up to feed her though. Wonder if I should? 

Mom has 2 more doses of the fever reducer and tomorrow is the last dose of antibiotics. Her fever was down to 104 last night. Better than 106...but still not perfect. She's eating the Purina Goat food like it's going out of style.  She's eating hay and drinking water. Also munching her mineral block, which thankfully the kids want nothing to do with. 

I'm attempting to get the kids to take 4oz of whole cow milk twice a day. This morning was less than successful in this. Last night though, they ate like little piggies. Mom is producing a LITTLE amount of milk, so they must be getting SOMETHING during the day/night...just not quite enough.  Though clearly when they want it, they will gobble it on down. Their bellies are not sunken in at all. I make sure to feel them both morning and night. They are playful as all get out. Even attempting to much on hay like mom  Every day I go out there to find the boy in the igloo with a piece of hay sticking out of his mouth like an old farmer


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## BlessedWithGoats

I'm sorry you're going through this @nstone630... I truly hope they get better and remain healthy!
I sympathize with how you were feeling; having gone through a goat crisis, I sympathize with that stressful feeling.  Will be praying for ya.


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## nstone630

Thank You @BlessedWithGoats


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## Goat Whisperer

I'm thinking staph too. I've never see that before though 
Poor girl! 

It wouldn't be a bad idea to wear gloves while bottle feeding if you are in contact with the skin/kind of the goat. 
Definitely watch her brother for it too. 

Did you send the pic to your vet?


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## Goat Whisperer

If they are used to the bottle now, and know it means food, I wouldn't push it. Sounds like you have a good handle on this and I'm hoping it was just a "small bump in the road"


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## nstone630

Thanks @Goat Whisperer for all the advice. I'm unsure how to send a picture to the vet, I'll have to call them. 

I'll check the boy tonight...haven't noticed anything on mom. Wonder if that could be part of the infection she is having? Hm...

I'm hoping in a week or so I will have happy healthy goats. I'm getting more gloves today. Better to be safe than sorry. Lord knows I don't need staph


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## nstone630

Ok. Kids are good. Mom is no longer producing milk. So looks like we will be busy bottle feeding.

Mom still has a 104 fever. Last dose of antibiotics today. She started today with some strangel discharge. It's not bright red. It's more of a milky pink. Hard to explain. Any ideas?  I'm at the point where we are just having to watch her. I will call the vet tomorrow and see what they suggest.


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## samssimonsays

Hoping all goes ok with mom. I'd bring up the staph possibility to the vet...


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## TAH

When was the last shot given? 
Have you changed her food since kidding?


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## nstone630

She's been given her last shot of antibiotics today. She has 1 more shot of the fever reducer for tomorrow.

Her food is regular hay, alfalfa hay, Purina goat food, and free range. Plenty of water. I've not given sweet feed due to the molasses in it, not being good for fever.

I'm worried about the discharge. But not sure since it's not bright red blood, that maybe it's not a bad thing, but maybe a good thing? Ugh. I just dont know.

And now, I've ready uo on bottle feeding. Every 4 hours at 1 wk old. Can stretch 6 hrs over night. They both willingly took a bottle tonight...no questions they were just very hungry!!!


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## Goat Whisperer

Glad they are taking the bottle! You may need to up the amount if the dam is completely dry now. I suspect she is still making some milk and the kids are just sucking it down. 

I think the babies would be okay to go a little longer at night. I only do middle of the night feedings for the first few days of life. After that they don't seem to have any issues. But, if you don't mind getting up- that's great! 

As always, talk to your vet about the discharge. Most does will have a discharge for about a month after kidding. That is natures way of clean the doe out. Of course if there is still infection (sounds like that is still going on) that is another story. I'm really wondering if the vet needs to do a uterine flush at this point.


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## nstone630

Let's just say that any time we try to check her teats for milk, we can't milk ANY from her. Her bag I'd still fullish looking. Just not like when pregnant.  I'll see if I can't get a picture tomrrow. 

I can skip the 3 am feeding lol they will be ok for a few hours, just very ready for the bottle im sure.

I will see how mom does the next day or so with the last antibiotics in her. I'll call the vet from there.


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## babsbag

Does have a discharge after kidding for about three weeks. It can be bright red, milky pink and thick, and dark red. That sounds pretty normal to me. The fever still really worries me though, especially if it is that high and still on fever reducer. She either has another infection somewhere or the antibiotics aren't working. I know this sounds weird, but does the discharge smell at all?


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## nstone630

babsbag said:


> Does have a discharge after kidding for about three weeks. It can be bright red, milky pink and thick, and dark red. That sounds pretty normal to me. The fever still really worries me though, especially if it is that high and still on fever reducer. She either has another infection somewhere or the antibiotics aren't working. I know this sounds weird, but does the discharge smell at all?



Odd as the question is....no...I smelled some after I first noticed it when she peed earlier today. I picked up the leaf it was on and smelled. Knowing infection would have a smell, this did not. My boys about threw up watching me smell it. But I taught them there is a time for things to be gross, and this wasn't one of them. That it was serious.

On that note. We just fed the babies the last 4 oZ battle each for the night. I didn't even have to ask the gurl. She took it, without even holding her she chugged it down. The boy, stubborn butt he is...after some coaxing drank it right down.

The staph sores on the doelings rear are scabbard over and almost gone..yay. one less thing. And the boy has no sign of it.

I'll call the vet tomorrow and see about a possible new antibiotic since her fever won't break.


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## Southern by choice

If she has no milk you will need to increase those bottles and feed 3x day.


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## babsbag

I don't know if someone is home with them to feed 3x but if not you can make a feeding bucket. I used to put ice in mine to keep the milk cool and leave it for them while I was at work. It worked great.


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## Goat Whisperer

@nstone630 would your human kids be willing to feed a bottle after school? 
It might be a good idea to weigh the kids so you can make sure they are gaining well. If possible, weigh them weekly.

I have been meaning to ask  but keep forgetting to mention it, but have you wormed momma doe or check her fecal? I think you said when you discovered she was first bred, she had a 400+ EPG (I can't remember the exact number). At this point she has had a bloom and this is probably taking her as well. When they are taxed, milk production goes down. Ask you vet about worming her, s/he might not want you to do it just yet with the other drugs the goat has had. 

You could tape the dam's teats. If you tape them well, the kids can't pull them off and within hours you will see if her udder starts filling. 

@babsbag do you think these babies need more than 4oz a feeding? My lamancha dairy goats drink more than that!


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## Goat Whisperer

Glad to here the staph is clearing up


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## norseofcourse

Catching up on how things are going - sorry your doe is having troubles, but sounds like you're doing well with her and the kids so far, and getting good advice from experienced folks here.  Hope you can keep working with your vet and she continues to improve.


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## Goat Whisperer

norseofcourse said:


> sorry your ewe is having troubles


Doe, Norse  We are goat people 








Just teasing you


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## norseofcourse

Goat Whisperer said:


> Doe, Norse  We are goat people
> 
> 
> Just teasing you



     At least I called them kids and not lambs      Edited to fix


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## Goat Whisperer

I'm terrible with the dog terms. I always say "kid/kidding/kidded" instead of "welp/welping/welped".


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## babsbag

I believe that the hope was that they were still getting milk off of mom; if they aren't then they definitely need more than 4oz. My Boers were easily drinking 8 oz 3x a day  at 1 week. Think about a dairy doe that is giving 3/4 of a gallon a day with no kids. Put kids on her and you might get a pint from her, the kids are getting the rest. They are little milk machines.

I would say 8 oz now, 12 oz at 4 weeks and 20 oz. at weaning.


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## Goat Whisperer

Another thing I forgot to mention…

I would put her on good, loose minerals. The blocks aren't great as it is, hard for goats to get everything they need from it and they aren't supposed to EAT it. They are supposed to lick it, when they try to eat it, it damages the teeth and the doe still isn't getting everything she needs. 

We really like the Manna pro minerals from TSC.


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## nstone630

Does temp is103.1!!!!!!!!


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## babsbag

That is really good news. Hope that it stays down and that whatever it is the is troubling her goes away for good. 

Are the kids still trying to nurse off of her?


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## Goat Whisperer




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## samssimonsays

So glad her fever is down!


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## nstone630

babsbag said:


> That is really good news. Hope that it stays down and that whatever it is the is troubling her goes away for good.
> 
> Are the kids still trying to nurse off of her?



They are trying to nurse. We are going to separate her from them for some time today to see if her bag fills. Just to check milk production. In the mean time we are supplementing bottle feeding 3 times a day 8 oZ whole milk. They love it and are taking the bottle with no problems now. The boy is a little chubby thing, wanting his bottle and then some.


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## nstone630

Goat Whisperer said:


>


Thanks for all the help @Goat Whisperer


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## nstone630

The kids are doing great with the bottle still. The boy chugs down 8 oz 3 times a day like it's nothing. The girl, she's a bit more reserved, typically only taking 4 oz at each setting. I'm going to weigh them today to confirm we still have a weight gain. 

Mom is looking more lively, probably because she is feeling better. Still having some discharge, but seemingly normal. Once I know the drainage has stopped I'm going to wash her back side. She will be so excited to have that done 

I have someone interested in purchasing my d*ck wad of a buck...I'll be ready to see him go if the deal goes through. 

I'm saddened by the fact that my cute little buckling will be next to sell. But, I know there is no need for him on the farm. *sigh*


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## lcertuche

Might be hard to think about it but around here it's all about food. My cute little peeps became really tasty cockerels. They aren't nearly as cute canned in chunks.


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## nstone630

lcertuche said:


> Might be hard to think about it but around here it's all about food. My cute little peeps became really tasty cockerels. They aren't nearly as cute canned in chunks.



I totally understand. We just sent off 3 of our roosters to the neighbor to be processed. We've never been keen on processing birds, not a fun job at all.


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## nstone630

So good news this morning...DH says that my doe is producing LOTS of milk!!! He said he saw the babies on her this morning, and they stayed on her for some time. He was out there with bottles, ready to feed. The girl, he had to force to even take 1 oz of milk. The fatty boy chugged his. So when he noticed the girl wasn't excited like she had been for it...he testing her. He said when he milked (just once) on one of her teats a good heavy stream of milk came out. He said that if he'd wanted to he could have filled a bottle full!  Apparently with mom feeling better, she's producing like she should. I can say that yesterday when I came home I noticed her teats were not all wrinkled up like they had been when she was sick. 

 Not that I minded bottle feeding, but we are all for mother nature doing it's thing. I will keep an eye on them, and we will weight them weekly to make sure there is weight gain. 

I wormed mom and dad yesterday. When should I be thinking about worming the kids?


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## samssimonsays

YAY!!! So glad things are turning around for mom!


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## norseofcourse

Glad things are going well, and she's producing milk!!!


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## lcertuche

Yeah!


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## babsbag

Glad she is producing; is her fever gone?

I had doe that was really sick last year with mastitis but once the infection was cleared up she went right back to making milk and raised her doeling with 1/2 an udder. 

The discharge usually lasts about 3 weeks.  

I don't typically have to worm as it is very hot and dry here (maybe not this year though) but you won't have to worm until the kids are eating grass and hay in earnest. It really would be best to get a fecal done before you worm them. 

However, cocci is common and right around the corner. It usually hits my kids at about 3 weeks. Ask your vet about prevention for them, so much better than treating after the fact. There are a few different drugs you can use, but best if the vet gives you a recommendation and a dose.


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## nstone630

Yes, her fever is gone. Thank goodness. 

The kids are nibbling on grass and hay now. I'll see about getting a fecal prior to worming. They are still so tiny, I don't want to wipe them out completely. They are only 11 days old. I think I may have a couple more weeks.


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## babsbag

I would say 6-8 weeks


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## nstone630

Any recommendations on where (what sites) are good to sell your live stock? Meaning my beautiful buckling that will need to go once weened. I know there is Craigslist, but I wondered if anyone had any better tips?


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## norseofcourse

Are there any livestock supply places that would let you put a notice up?  They have a bulletin board at my local tractor supply, and at most feed stores.

Even if you are ok with him going for meat, you may want to ask potential buyers some questions - think about that, and whether you'd transport (how far, fee or not?) or they would have to pick up. Maybe some experienced goat folks will chime in on the typical selling process.  @Southern by choice @OneFineAcre @Goat Whisperer


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## nstone630

I'll post at Tractor Supply, good idea.


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## nstone630

Just some new pics. I only have some of my buckling right now...he's so handsome.


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## nstone630

Weighed both of them today. Both are 15 lbs! Growing like weeds. More than doubled there weight in the 3 short weeks. Have 2 potential buyers for the buckling. Will miss him but I know the purpose.


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## HomeOnTheRange

Nice pics!  Those little ones are really taking off.


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## Lanthanum

nstone630 said:


> Weighed both of them today. Both are 15 lbs! Growing like weeds. More than doubled there weight in the 3 short weeks. Have 2 potential buyers for the buckling. Will miss him but I know the purpose.


On Monday my doe Bonnie birthed a doeling that was identical to her, and I checked on here to see the size difference and there is an 8 pound difference in newborn weight! My baby pygmy weighs almost one pound and she fits in my hand! And she's really healthy and happy,  that's just the normal weight for a baby pygmy haha. She's identical to the mamma and I love it! So glad it's a doe so she doesn't have to go. I'm sorry you have to rehome your buckiling,  he is really beautiful!


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## nstone630

The kids are doing great! The little buckling is sold to a Agriculture farm in the state, so I'm very excited that he will have quite the life there! 

Question - my doeling has presented with a bit of crusty around her left eye. Any ideas if this needs to be treated? Or just wash with warm water and leave alone. Her eye does not look red or irritated.


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## BlessedWithGoats

@OneFineAcre @babsbag @goatgurl Tagging some people that, among others, may be able to help with your question about your doeling. 

Glad to hear your little buckling has found a good home! It can be hard to let them go.


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## goatgurl

@nstone630, first welcome to BHY, I know you've been here for a while but I've been gone for a while and am just catching up with everyone.  if it were me i'd clean her eye with some warm water and watch it to see.  she probably poked herself in the eye with something.  if it gets worse then contact your vet for some rx.


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## nstone630

Thanks @goatgurl. Nice to meet you. Always like meeting some new folks on here!


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## Goat Whisperer

Yep- just wash it off and monitor


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## babsbag

I love your buckling's color and really glad he is going some place "fun".  I have 4 bucklings right now that are going to be really hard to get rid of but that is the circle of life.


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## Goat Whisperer

It's been close to a month since you've updated this thread… 

How are the kids doing? Have you started milking the momma doe yet? How's the new doe settling in?


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## Libertyrose

SO exciting! I have a goat expecting too, in fact, she is past her due date, so we will have baby goats here shortly! Post pics when she kids!


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