# bladder infection doe now has diarrhea



## gibbygoats (Sep 18, 2009)

]Can anyone help me tonight?

I posted on Monday about my pygmy doe that has a bladder infection. 

I have been giving her pennacillan Sub-Q 2x day  since Monday am.  Since Monday evening she has been peeing normal again.

I went out to put the goats to bed a little while ago and now she has runny diarrhea.  There is no blood in it that I can see. 

 I took her temp and it is 104. 

 I've never taken her temp before so I  don't know what here "normal" temp is.  In my pygmy goat book it says that the normal range is 102.5 to 104.  

My question is should I give her the shot of Pennacillan or do you think this could be causing the diarrhea?

Also is there anything I should do to help her till morning?  I didn't give her the goat pellets, I just gave her lots of fresh hay.  

Thanks in advanced for any help you can give.


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## Roll farms (Sep 19, 2009)

Hay is fine until she straightens out.  I'd offer probiotics, my guess is the antibiotics are wreaking havoc on her rumen.
Good luck!


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## lilhill (Sep 19, 2009)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Hay is fine until she straightens out.  I'd offer probiotics, my guess is the antibiotics are wreaking havoc on her rumen.
> Good luck!


I agree.  All the antibiotics that are killing off the bad bacteria also kills the good.  Any time I give antibiotics, they also get probios.


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## gibbygoats (Sep 19, 2009)

Sorry I didn't get a chance to reply earlier, had a VERY busy day! 

Thanks for the responses

I called the vet this morning and she gave me probiotics, Banamine, and sub-q fluids in case I would need them.  So far she's drinking so I haven't needed them. 

 She was very lethargic this morning but as the day went on she perked up and tonight she seems a lot better.  I haven't had a chance to check her poop tonight, but she is holding her tail normal again instead of curled up toward her back.  

Thanks again for your help.


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## kimmyh (Sep 20, 2009)

A healthy goat holds its tail straight up, or up over its back. A sick or scared goat will hold its tail down.


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## gibbygoats (Sep 20, 2009)

Her normal tail position is up, but while she was having diarrhea problems her tail was stretched way over her back in a non normal way.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 20, 2009)

How old is she and how much does she weigh?


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## cmjust0 (Sep 21, 2009)

kimmyh said:
			
		

> A healthy goat holds its tail straight up, or up over its back. A sick or scared goat will hold its tail down.


Not to pick knits, but this isn't true for all goats.  The only goats we have that have ever held their tails straight up or over its back have been the bucks..  Our does' tails generally go straight out or down, and they're fat, slick, and happy.

Just sayin.

Glad the goat is feeling better..  As others have said, antibiotics can really mess with the digestive system.  Happens even in humans, and we're not nearly so dependent on bacteria as ruminants are.


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## gibbygoats (Sep 23, 2009)

trestlecreek said:
			
		

> How old is she and how much does she weigh?


She is 1 1/2 yrs old and weighs about 60 lbs.

I had the vet come out yesterday.  I was worried because she isn't eating, or I should say she is eating very little. She also seemed a bit depressed.  

She gave me Bio sponge an intestinal absorbent and Bismupaste E (basicly pepto bismal) for the diarrhea.

The vet said that because of her diarrhea and having a belly ache she is probably a little afraid to eat for fear it will hurt her belly again.  She said to encourage her to eat pretty much anything she wants.  Hay, grass, leaves, cherrios, goat treats any thing that will get her jump started to eat again.  She did say her rumen sounded good so she must be eating at least a little when I'm not watching.   

Does anyone have any food ideas or tricks to get her to eat?

Last night and this morning she seems more chipper but still not eating much


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## kimmyh (Sep 23, 2009)

You can cook carrots, grind them up and drench her with them. Also, some old fashioned oat meal can be cooked and added to the carrots. The oat meal is good for reducing diarrhea, and the carrots give them energy.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 23, 2009)

Give her a big whopping dose (or three, or ten) of vit. b-complex...should help stimulate the appetite.

B-vitamins are water soluble..  She'll simply pee out what she doesn't use.  You could literally administer a whole 250ml bottle at once and not OD her.  I'm not advising you to do that, of course...I'm just saying that b-vitamins are one of the rare and beautiful things in goatdom that work well without the owner having to be shy or worried about using them.

So..try that.  If it doesn't work, the only other thing I can think of would be dexamethasone..  It's Rx only, and you gotta be considerably more thoughtful with it.  If she doesn't perk back up on the B, you might ask your vet about dex and see what they say..


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## gibbygoats (Sep 23, 2009)

Where do I get Vit. B complex.  feed store?  drug store?  also how do I give give it to her?
 I am desperate to get her to start eating. We are scheduled to go away this weekend and I don't want to change our plans because Daisy wont eat!


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## ksalvagno (Sep 23, 2009)

I would also get some Probios in her. After all she has been through, her stomach probably doesn't have the proper bacteria levels.


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## lilhill (Sep 23, 2009)

You can order the B Complex online and I give it IM.  It really does perk them up.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 23, 2009)

Most feed stores should carry B-Complex..  I bought a 250ml bottle at TSC forever ago...less than $10, if I recall.  It's an injectable, but you can drench with it if you're not comfortable giving shots.  

I've known people who put 6cc's SQ on each side of the goat and then drench with about 15cc's all at once, if they're shipping or showing or breeding heavily, etc..

Not sure that's entirely necessary, but like I said...can't hurt'em with B.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 23, 2009)

So, I did like 4.3 seconds of reading on "Bio-Sponge" (not much out there) and I'm not sure it's something I'd be giving to a ruminant..

The descriptions talked about how good it was at picking up toxins, virii, and bacteria...which may be fine for a non-ruminant, but if you 'sponge' the wrong bacteria out of a goat's rumen, they could shut down.

I'm with ksal...I think probios is a good idea here.


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## freemotion (Sep 23, 2009)

With people, extra B vitamins are just pee'd out, so it is hard to overdose.  To overdose, you would have to take a tremendous amount, and symptoms would be tingling in the hands and feet and would be temporary.  You'd have to take a LOT.  It is very safe.  It works better orally.  Intrinsic factor is needed to utilize some of the B's and that is in the digestive tract, which is bypassed with an injection.


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## gibbygoats (Sep 23, 2009)

Daisy is not the easiest  goat to give anything to by mouth.  Even the vet had a bit of trouble.  I can give it Sub-Q with the help of my husband. 

how much would you recomend Sub Q if she's 60 lbs.  I know you said I can't OD her but what do you think would be a resonable dose?


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## ksalvagno (Sep 23, 2009)

Biosponge has been used in alpacas for a while now and they do just fine. Alpacas are also a ruminant. I would definitely do the Probios though.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 23, 2009)

gibbygoats said:
			
		

> Daisy is not the easiest  goat to give anything to by mouth.  Even the vet had a bit of trouble.  I can give it Sub-Q with the help of my husband.
> 
> how much would you recomend Sub Q if she's 60 lbs.  I know you said I can't OD her but what do you think would be a resonable dose?


As far as I'm concerned, the limitation on B vitamin injection depends simply on what you're comfortable injecting into one site..  

I don't personally like to SQ more than 6ml per injection site, even in an adult, so that's usually what I load up.  That's just me, though..  It's just a personal preference, too, and I won't even try to defend it should someone come along and tell me that they inject 15ml SQ all the time or whatever.  There's no science behind my preference, to my knowledge...just something about the size of a 12ml or larger syringe in relation to a goat that makes me go....NO WAY I'm injecting all that.  

I think it's worth pointing out that I use regular ol' Durvet b-complex, and I think it's kinda weak, frankly..  Agrilabs Fortified B has more of each B vitamin per cc, so you can actually inject less volume and get more B into the animal.

Anything's better than nothing, though, if the goat needs to have its GI stimulated..  Get what you can get, as soon as you can get it, and just deliver it "IG" as best you can...


IG meaning "In Goat," of course..


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## kimmyh (Sep 23, 2009)

B vitamins are indeed excreted in the urine AND they contain Thiamine, which when over dosed can cause a heart attack. Please be careful with the vits.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 23, 2009)

Thiamine _is_ a b-vitamin.....it's vitamin B1.  All b-vitamins are water soluble and the excesses are excreted in the urine.  

Just out of curiosity...what's the heart-attack inducing dosage of Thiamine in a goat?  Is this something you've seen before?


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## gibbygoats (Sep 24, 2009)

It's me again.....  

I am about at my witts end!!!    I don't know what to do for my goat.  I have tried to give her her meds the vet gave me. Bio sponge an 

intestinal absorbent and Bismupaste E (basicly pepto bismal) for the diarrhea and Pro biotic.  I can't get them in her.  She hates me trying to put anything in 

her mouth.  My husband was holds her while I try to open her mouth and put it in.,  he nearly got his eye impaled by her horn.

 ( I am so regretting not having her dehorned!! ) I'm afraid we are going to break her neck!!

She still is not eating . last night I got her to eat a few leaves and some sun chips.  I know not the best diet, but the vet said to try anything just to 

keep her rumen going.  I got vitamin B complex this morning from the vet, I couldn't find it at Agway, TSC or my local feed store yesterday.  

She presccribed 3cc 2x day Sub Q.  I  gave it to her about 1:00 ,so far no miraclious recovery that I was hoping for. 

 Anybody have any clues as to what I should do next????


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## cmjust0 (Sep 24, 2009)

gibbygoats said:
			
		

> She hates me trying to put anything in her mouth.  My husband was holds her while I try to open her mouth and put it in.,  he nearly got his eye impaled by her horn.


Straddle the goat, facing the same direction she's facing.  With your non-dominant hand, grab her under the chin and insert your thumb across the void behind the front teeth of her lower jaw, then pull her head up.  If she tries to back out from under you, pull her head to one side and lodge your upper leg between her horns.

I promise you...she'll go NO WHERE if you get her this way, I don't give a damn how ornery she is.  For some goats, this is the only way they'll take oral meds.

What's especially handy about this technique is that once you get it mastered, a "helper" really only gets in the way.


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## lilhill (Sep 24, 2009)

And please be patient.  A "miraculous" recovery could be two or three days when you start to really see a difference.  Not in a couple of hours after she gets the meds.


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