# The runt of the litter.



## Onyx (May 7, 2015)

So, I ordered two Maremma puppies from a working ranch and a guy who had been raising them for decades. Figuring that he was the expert I asked him to choose two pups that would best suit my needs.

One of the pups seems to me to have good potential as a LGD, but her sister is extremely small, extremely timid and is very very narrow through the chest and ribs... so narrow through the chest that when she is standing up her front legs touch all the way down.  The pups are four and a half months old and the bigger one is twice the size of her sister.

I cannot imagine putting this dog anywhere near packs of stray dogs or coywolves... I feel she would be killed very quickly.  So for now, I plan to keep her up around the house as a pet.  She really doesn't not seem suitable to me for anything else.

I wonder if anyone with lots of experience with LGDs can tell he how likely it is that she may "blossom" in time and become large enough and confident enough to do her job?  When I bred dogs many many years ago, "runty" pups generally had caught up and sometimes even surpassed their siblings by 4 months of age.  Then again I always made sure they had enough to eat.  This girl has been out on the range with her dominant siblings who would chase her off the food, and is very thin, nearly skin and bones.  I am feeding her up, but don't have much confidence that it's going to change her basic structure.


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## BlessedWithGoats (May 7, 2015)

Hi Onyx! I recommend speaking to @Southern by choice; she's a LGD expert. I'm not sure who else to tag.  Best wishes with your new pups and growth for the smaller one!


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## Southern by choice (May 7, 2015)

A thorough vet check is best. Don't know if the  breeder does a vet check or not. We do but many LGD people don't.

She may have a chest wall deformity and heart defect as well.
Heart defects (if severe, not a slight puppy murmur that they grow out of) can cause many issues.
Fecal check would be good as well. Cocci can cause issues and can hit one pup but not another.
Worms are another issue. Which I am sure you are aware of already.
I would de-worm her regardless of what shows on the fecal. I prefer Panacur (fenbendazole) because it takes care of everything including whips.  treat for 3 days in a row every 3 weeks. I would do this for 3 rounds at least with her.

I think you are correct in your assessment of feeding, She may not have been in that top slot and simply not gotten enough nutrition, causing improper development. Feeding 3x day would benefit her as well.
You said 4 1/2 months what is her height and weight now?

Very possible for her to fill out* if no defects are found*. 
Congrats on our new pups!


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## Onyx (May 7, 2015)

@Southern by choice Yes they are getting 3x daily feeding now that they are here.  I don't know their height and weight as I don't have any way to weigh them.  We want to let them settle a bit before the trauma of a vet visit, as they are completely unsocialized and fear everyone except me at the moment.  She does not seem ill, just thin but she'll get checked out.  The pups were vaccinated x3 by the breeder but did not receive any vet exam.

My vet will only give me one dose of wormer.  I have always done repeat wormings but she assures me it is not needed... this is the first time I've ever heard that so I'm skeptical... on the other hand, my Frenchton DID have visible worms and one round of the wormer did get rid of them and they haven't come back.  

The other reason we've waited on the vet is that both puts get horrendously car-sick.  I know you can give dramamine but we don't have any way to accurately weigh them for the dose, so they'll probably have to go to the vet without it and will be a pukey mess by the time they get there :/ Doesn't matter if you don't feed them beforehand, they just throw up foamy bile in that case, and lots of it.

The larger pup tried to protect me from a dog on the internet this morning... a sign of good instincts? xD


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## BlessedWithGoats (May 7, 2015)

Onyx said:


> The larger pup tried to protect me from a dog on the internet this morning... a sign of good instincts? xD




Aww! :)


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## Southern by choice (May 7, 2015)

Onyx said:


> I don't know their height and weight as I don't have any way to weigh them.


Stand on a regular scale get your weight then pick up the dog and look at total weight subtract yours and you will have a good idea although maybe not exact.


Onyx said:


> completely unsocialized and fear everyone except me at the moment


This is why it is important to start now. The  longer you wait the worse it will be.


Onyx said:


> My vet will only give me one dose of wormer. I have always done repeat wormings but she assures me it is not needed


Nost vets have no understanding of LGD's. They are at higher risk of reinfection because they are on the land.  This is why many LGD's do not reach their full size potential. Many just try and pump food into them and that just is bad all the way around.  If your one pup is not small do not overfeed. 3x a day is unnecessary. @x a day for him.
We start deworming at 3 wks and continue to between 16-20 weeks every 3 weeks. You need to get your own dewormer. You do not need a vet to do that.

Your pup may not appear to be ill but if she does have a chest wall deformity there are long term issues as well as heart defects.
Heart defects can cause severe anemia and failure to thrive.

A word of advice.... do not feed into or play into her timidity... it will only get worse. Build confidence by slowly pushing her into somewhat uncomfortable situations. Praise praise and praise.
Some dogs are simply highly confident in their field but not so much outside of it. That is ok it is usually a trait of the patroller.
If she cowers or is afraid just look at her and say you are ok and turn away. Don't baby this. You will need to watch temperament.

Socialization is a big one to deal with as the age for the greatest impact for this has now passed.  If you can start some basic obedience with the girl that will go a long way. Regimented if possible. Same time everyday , same place everyday. Simple obedience. Not really trying to make an obedience dog just strengthening relationship and confidence.

Carsickness.... LOL I say deal with it... it won't get better on its own. Even short trips like down your street and back ... helps build confidence in the car  etc.

So where are your pictures? 
I haven't been around as I have had health issues so maybe they are posted already...


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