# Texmasters



## MidnightChickenLover (Aug 22, 2010)

These guys look like great animals, and I'm interested in having a few, but living in PA makes it hard to even find good goats from a state or two across when it vomes to meat goats. I'm working on expanding and improving my herd of boers (just got two little doelings!). I looked at all the registered breeders on Pedigree International, and only one has a website listed.    Do you know of any websites?    I find shipping the goats from Onion Creek a little too high for my budget, the goat price is perfect though, and I would like to see the parents in person (willing to drive pretty far)... Does anyone have any? Opinions?


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## Roll farms (Aug 22, 2010)

Get some myotonics and boers and make your own.

SG (at OCR) is a master at self-promotion....create a mix and tag an impressive name on it and sell them in your area.

That's not sarcasm, I'm serious....if she can promote a mixed breed to the point where folks are willing to drive that far, anyone can.

Myself, I prefer Boer x Kiko....BoKis.


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## TigerLilly (Aug 23, 2010)

Roll, I like that idea. Someone, somewhere came up with the nigis x (eg) nubian to make mini nubies. You could be on to something there...


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## jodief100 (Aug 23, 2010)

Most of the research on meat goat breeds is being done at Tennessee State.  The latest I read is showing the fastest growing; most worm resistant kids are out of Kiko does by Boer bucks.  Granted, you find outliers in any breed but I like to stick with statistical probabilities.  

So I have been adding kikos to my herd of percentage boers and am considering a kiko buck for replacement stock.  

I agree with Roll, find some good starter stock and make your own.  Check out the buck tests for fast gaining bucks.  MD has a forage based one that is primarily kikos.  Illinois and Kentucky have forage and grain based ones.

The Onion Creek goats may be great in Tennessee but you have a different climate in PA.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 23, 2010)

Roll said:
			
		

> SG (at OCR) is a master at self-promotion....create a mix and tag an impressive name on it and sell them in your area.


If we had a like button, I'd like this 1000 times.  

If you read up through some of her "articles," some are decent, but then you run across the occasional gem that's just like...WOW...and everything in every "article" is stated as fact.

For instance...in talking about how goats pick up worms, she mentions that goat droppings are easily mixed with grass and weeds and so they eat them....which is how they get infected with worms.

By eating poop.

She thinks goats get worms by eating goat poop.

:/

This is the same person who goes on to advise rotating pastures every three weeks to break the life cycle of barberpole worms, despite the fact that barberpole larvae -- the thing the goat ACTUALLY eats to become infested (versus the actual poop, as she claims) -- can live for months on pasture, just waiting to be picked up so they can molt a couple more times in the abomasum.

She's ridiculous.  

IMHO, anyway..  



I think I'm gonna start my own breed of goats..  I'm going to call them "CM Goats".

Then another subset of that breed called "MR2 Goats" with "CM hooves?"


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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 23, 2010)

Roll said:
			
		

> SG (at OCR) is a master at self-promotion....create a mix and tag an impressive name on it and sell them in your area.


Reminds me of the "designer dogs" craze. Who ever would have thought, years back, that a breeder could get $1000 for what is essentially a mongrel?

Hmph!

Promoting indeed.


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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 23, 2010)

NOT to say that crossing breeds can't be beneficial. And that is how new breeds are created. Just that ... Well, I think the dog thing got silly. 

edited for spelling ... Dog thong is even sillier!


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## jodief100 (Aug 23, 2010)

Shiloh Acres said:
			
		

> NOT to say that crossing breeds can't be beneficial. And that is how new breeds are created. Just that ... Well, I think the dog thing got silly.


Crossing breeds is very benificial, but it not a NEW breed unless they breed true. That takes a lot of careful development and several generations.   Crossing increases the gene pool so it blocks out bad reccessives but it increases varitey so you cannot be sure of what you get.


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## TigerLilly (Aug 23, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> IMHO, anyway..
> 
> I think I'm gonna start my own breed of goats..  I'm going to call them "CM Goats".
> Then another subset of that breed called "MR2 Goats" with "CM hooves?"


I wanna see F1 pics of those!


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## MidnightChickenLover (Aug 23, 2010)

How are Kiko's beneficial to boer stock? I'm curious because the ones I have seen look like heavy Saanens. My boers are very healthy, but it is harder finding "wider, heavier, longer" ones, and having a few crossed goats seems like a good idea, especially if the crosses are fast growing and thicker. Do you know of any good breeders?
Thanks fr warning me


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## Roll farms (Aug 23, 2010)

> I think I'm gonna start my own breed of goats..  I'm going to call them "CM Goats".
> 
> Then another subset of that breed called "MR2 Goats" with "CM hooves?"


What about the MR NOT GOATS....followed by MR2, CM Horns?

And the final generation...LIB, MR GOATS!

(For those who may not get this old joke, it reads as, 
CM goats="See them goats?" and so on.....)

And....for Kiko info, read up here: http://www.theikga.org/#

In performance tests, Kikos and their crossbred offspring outscore pure boers on average daily gain on pasture alone, on parasite resistance, and general maintenance needed (frequency of hoof trimming, etc.)  Dams kid easy, raise big kids, and recover quicker than PB boers, on average.

Kikos aren't a 'show goat'....they're a pure working meat animal.

They are 'mutts', from several generations of dairy goats left to run wild in Austrailia for generations.  A smart breeder took the best of them, bred them, and 'created' a breed of hardy goats.

You could get the same thing from breeding a Nub to an alpine, breeding their offspring to a Saanen, breeding that offspring back to a Nubian, etc, etc. and so on....it's called "Hybrid vigor".  

My prediction:  If enough people buy kikos and try to raise them like boers, by breeding them true and keeping them on dry lots, the Kiko will lose that vigor.

We had a kiko buck and while I LOVED his kids and his hardiness, he was mean as a snake.  He tried to kill me.
I still have PB Kiko / cross does and they're really easy kidders, hardy, I rarely deworm them or trim their hooves.


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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 24, 2010)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> Shiloh Acres said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right, that's kinda my point. I actually wrote that post on the heels of the one before, because I DIDNT want anyone who was crossing breeds in order to bring in beneficial characteristics to think I was criticizing that. 

What I AM pointing out is exactly what you said. Cross a lab and a poodle and you can call it a labradoodle if you want, and charge a thousand bucks, but there is no way you can guarantee what traits are going to be expressed in the pups, nor can you breed two labradoodles together and get uniform pups, generation after generation. 

However, all new breeds are created by selecting parent stock of existing breeds, developing the desired traits and getting rid of undesired ones (hopefully) over generations and finally producing a uniform result. Which takes years, and generations. 

But mostly I didn't want anyone who was crossing goats to think I was criticizing that. A couple of mine are crosses that are the result of someone else's experiment. One I'm about ready to cull myself but I will give her a year -- she does have her good points. The other is actually pretty promising but she's a 3-way dairy mutt. I loveher though -- she's a very hardy and very sweet little thing.


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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 24, 2010)

AND (another post on the heels so as not to offend -- I can't scroll down far enough to edit the other) ...  For all I know maybe Labradoodles ARE stable by now. I kinda doubt it, but I never took an interest in them because those are not "my breeds". Right after labradoodles started gettingattention though, it seemed there was an explosion of crossed "breeds" that were being called designer dogs. A few I couldn't even figure out from the name. Looked to me like many "breeders" simply put two perhaps-purebred dogs together, sometimes of wildly incompatible breeds (why would you want a whippet x daschund?) and made up a new name for the offspring and asked hundreds of dollars for them. It got ridiculous where I was living a few years ago, so I guess it became a pet peeve (no pun intended).   But I hope I'm not offending anyone.


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## KinderKorner (Aug 24, 2010)

My entire herd is made up of registered Crossbreeds.

Kinders which is a Pygmy Nubian cross.

They breed true, and have been perfect goats for us.

They really aren't considered 'registered' until 5 generation. The others are 'merit of registry' but are still registered. If that makes any sense. lol. The only real difference is the color of the registration paper changes when they are 5gen or up. lol

Are they the best goat out there. I think they are. But every single person will have their own opinion. 

Does that mean there are no other goats out there suited for milk and meat that equal a kinder. Nope. I'm sure there are lots of great goats out there that are just as good. 

If you like texmasters and thats what you want then thats fine it's your choice, breed them. If not there are tons of breeds or crossbreeds out there that are wonderful. 

It's amazing how far people will drive and how much people will pay for crossbreeds. But hey I say whatever people want. What makes a crossbreed any less than a 'purebred' what makes them purebred anyway. lol All goat breeds came from mixing others. 

As for me I love my 'crossbred' herd. 

I say pick whichever breed you like the best. Texmasters might seem amazing. But I think you might find some other meat goats such as the Bokis like roll suggested just as good. 

I don't really believe any breed is better than all others. They all have their ups and downs.


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## jodief100 (Aug 24, 2010)

MidnightChickenLover said:
			
		

> How are Kiko's beneficial to boer stock? I'm curious because the ones I have seen look like heavy Saanens. My boers are very healthy, but it is harder finding "wider, heavier, longer" ones, and having a few crossed goats seems like a good idea, especially if the crosses are fast growing and thicker. Do you know of any good breeders?
> Thanks fr warning me


What the official, scientifically done research shows is kikos are more parasite resistant, have a higher kidding rate, higher weaning rate and faster growing kids.  I have numbers from the Tennessee State research at home but off the top of my head..so numbers may be off a bit

In a given year approximately 40% of Boers needed worming vs 12% of Kikos
Boers weaned an average of 1.6 kids and Kikos weaned 1.8 (notice weaned, not birthed)
Kiko kids had lower birth weights but at 90 days had almost caught up.

Boers will grow bigger but will need more maintenance.  

I also have concerns that kikos are becomming the next hot breed like boers were 15 years ago.  People will breed any and all they can find, do everything they can to save every kid, lot feed and pamper them and the weak genes will become more common and the cycle starts all over again.

If you want good quality goats, you MUST be selective about the animals you breed.  I keep any doe that is making me money (weaning two kids a year).  But I only keep the offspring of the hardiest, fastest growing does.  I like a laissez faire operation where I have to intervene as little as possible.

When you buy goats, ask the tough questions.  ALL breeds have good and bad individual animals.  There are great, worm resistant Boers and parasite ridden kikos out there.  Ask how are they raising them, what are they feeding them, what they are worming them with and how often.  Ask to see breeding records, how many kids have they had, how many they weaned, how much did those kids weigh at birth and 90 days.  If you are buying young ones who have not yet kidded, ask to see the records on their Dams and Sires.  Buy animals that are being raised they way you want to raise them.  If you don't like the answers or they won't give them to you, WALK AWAY!


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## cmjust0 (Aug 24, 2010)

Some of you have probably seen where I've written in the past that I really, really, really want some Saanens..  

A lot of that has to do with me looking at what I have now, thinking....man....if I could get a little Saanen into that one, then run those kids back across a boer...blah blah blah..

I love mutts.


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## jodief100 (Aug 24, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Some of you have probably seen where I've written in the past that I really, really, really want some Saanens..
> 
> A lot of that has to do with me looking at what I have now, thinking....man....if I could get a little Saanen into that one, then run those kids back across a boer...blah blah blah..
> 
> I love mutts.


Me Too! You can't "improve" a breed unless you start making mutts.  Improvements require some new genes and you have to get those different genes from somewhere.  

My favorite doe is a % boer and who knows what dairy mix thrown in.  She is long and gaingly with horrible condition no matter what I feed her, but she throws beautiful babies.  She nurses everybody's babies.  I have to seperate her with her kids or all the babies nursing is too much for her.  Really good mama......


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## jodief100 (Sep 28, 2010)

If you are still interested in working with fainters, there is a nice looking Mytonic who got a bronze ranking in the forage only MD buck test.  Field day and sale is this Saturday, October 2nd.  Bonsboro, MD.


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## foothillsboergoats (Oct 14, 2010)

We have a herd of around 30+ registered boer and boer crosses.  We use fullblood boer bucks from good breeding, and most of our does are nubian/boer crosses of varying percentages.  We have found that the nubians compliment the style of the boer, and give them better udders/milk production, which is really what is needed to get the kids to grow.  Ours are great mothers, very hardy, kid on their own, and are very sweet and gentle.  Most of the Kikos that I have seen dont have the width, bone or muscle to compete with a boer carcass on the rail.  They may take less worming or whatever, but they just dont have the same amount of meat, not to mention they are not a very attractive goat.  JMO...


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## jodief100 (Oct 14, 2010)

foothillsboergoats said:
			
		

> Most of the Kikos that I have seen dont have the width, bone or muscle to compete with a boer carcass on the rail.  They may take less worming or whatever, but they just dont have the same amount of meat, not to mention they are not a very attractive goat.  JMO...


Yes, but the kikos tend to dress out at a higher percentage.  My customers like the leaner carcass as compared to the heavier, fattier boers. 

I like my kiko's, we all have to find what works for us.  I would rather have fewer pounds and less worming, to each his own.


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