# Breeding for Colors



## Hollywood Goats

I really want a tri-color goat, so if I breed a black and white with a red and white will I get tri-color?

I was thinking this buck for a tri-color:






or this one for a black and white goat:






with this doe --I am waiting until she is older.














What do you think?

Thank you!

Edited to add Better pictures.


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## goat lady

I still consider myself a newbie since we have only had goats for about 18 months. We in the last month bought two adult does that were breed to a blue eyed white nigerian dwarf buck. The does are nigerian dwarfs, but brown eyed and both beautiful brown coloring. The lady we got them from said that if you breed a white buck to a color doe then you get the doe's coloring in the kids, but if you breed with a dark buck then you get the buck's coloring. Well they are getting pretty fat, but no one is bagging yet, so we are anxiouse to see if what she says is true. I have never heard that before so someone else might be able to chime on on that theroy also. Good luck


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## Hollywood Goats

I have read that the black and brown are dominant, her mother is tan and white and her father is black.

I really want one that looks like this:
http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5220

Isn't she beautiful?


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## aggieterpkatie

Hollywood Goats said:
			
		

> I have read that the black and brown are dominant, her mother is tan and white and her father is black.
> 
> I really want one that looks like this:
> http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5220
> 
> Isn't she beautiful?


Why don't you PM Helmstead and see what the parents of that kid were?  Maybe she can give you some tips if you want that specific color pattern.


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## Hollywood Goats

I saw the pictures of the parents, they are both spotted and the buck is tri-color, not like the kid, but he is also gorgeous!  

http://www.helmsteadstables.com/wyatt.jpg


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## helmstead

Actually, Ta Da is the spitting image of her father...a black and tan with silver moonspots.  Both of Tiny's kid got their sire's base color.

You won't get "tri color" out of a red bred to black.  Red and black are both dominant colors, so more than likely you'll get red or black.  It's not like mixing paint.

Buckskin is a play on the black locus, so you CAN breed buckskin to black to get buckskin.

Moonspots...well, you'll need a moonspotted buck because I don't _think_ your black doeling is moonspotted.  

It's all a roll of the dice, in the long run.  You can make an educated guess, but that's all it will be.  Generally speaking here, my kids follow the buck's color pattern and/or genetic background.  That's probably 75 to 85% of the time.

Anyway, with Nigerians, one should not breed for color.  Breed for conformation and production...and if you get color - smile and do a happy dance - and if you don't get color you still have a productive little goat.


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## Hollywood Goats

They both have great dairy genes, their dams and daughters won awards for udders and build.

Thank you for the color info! so now I am just going to pick out which buck looks prettier since their genes are great.


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## 4hmama

The only thing consistant about breeding for color in nigerians is that nothing is consistant. 

You can breed for eye color - blue eye color is dominant in, but that doesn't always mean that you get it.  If two blue eyed parents are bred, but they have the recessive brown gene, you only have a 50/50 shot at blue eyed kids.  I have read that moonspots are a dominant trait, as is belting, frosting and white polls.  I have moonspotted does in my herd, and they have thrown babies with and without moonspots.  

I have a red and white , blue eyed buck that I bred to a mostly white, spotted, brown eyed doe...first breeding produced a black baby with white spashes/brown eyes, and the next breeding produced two red and white babies with blue eyes.  I bred the same buck to a chamoisee doe - first breeding produced a cream and white baby, and red and white baby, and the second breeding produced a black and white baby...all with brown eyes.  

I have a chocolate, buckskin buck with brown eyes that I bred to 3 does - one brown eyed red doe, one blue eyed red doe, and one black with moonspots and brown eyes.  
The results... 
buck x doe 1 - 1 brown, 1 tricolor, 1 light caramel color - all brown eyes.  Buck x doe 2 - 1 brown, 1 cream, 1 red/white with blue eyes.  
Buck x doe 3 - 1 blk/wh, 1 blk/wh with moonspots, 1 white/blk, 1  chocolate.

There is a really good website for genetic info - http://members.cox.net/foxcroft/genetics.htm but I agree with the above post - breed for udder, conformation and health.  Colors, patterns, and 'flash' are just the icing on the cake!

By the way - I just saw that you are considering Goodwood Weisbaden as a sire...I have a grandson and 2 grandaughters of his (all sired by his son - Lost Valley Omega Red) and the girl's udders are fantastic.  Don't know about the other sire option, but I'd go with Weisbaden.


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## Katied

helmstead said:
			
		

> You won't get "tri color" out of a red bred to black.  Red and black are both dominant colors, so more than likely you'll get red or black.  It's not like mixing paint.
> 
> Buckskin is a play on the black locus, so you CAN breed buckskin to black to get buckskin.
> 
> It's all a roll of the dice, in the long run.  You can make an educated guess, but that's all it will be.


Best way to get a "tri color" is to breed to a tri color and even that is a long shot. But a Buckskin might produce the tri color, (with horses I know but goats I am not sure if it's different) you could end up with the buckskin diluted gene if bred to a buckskin though.  Best choice is to breed to a tri color.

I have a solid white doe who's sire was a black kiko x and her dam was a boer x nubian breeding her back to a white kiko I expected to get white kids...nope I got two black kids.  Then bred her to a boer who's pattern is extremely dominant and I got the first time two white kids, and the second time a white kid with a diluted gold hood <-- avatar pic.


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## Hollywood Goats

Thanks for all the input!! 

Thank you *Katied* for the info on Goodwood Weisbaden, I think we might use him.


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## helmstead

Katied said:
			
		

> Best way to get a "tri color" is to breed to a tri color and even that is a long shot. But a Buckskin might produce the tri color, (with horses I know but goats I am not sure if it's different) you could end up with the buckskin diluted gene if bred to a buckskin though.  Best choice is to breed to a tri color.


Apparently you don't know what buckskin is in goats.  Not at all related to horse colors.  Google goat color genetics, you will find a great little webpage that describes dairy goat coloration.

"Tri Color" is not an official term for any goat color.  Really it's not a correct term for any horse color, either, but that's another subject.


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## Hollywood Goats

Has anyone ever used:
KIDS CORRAL LL SMOKEY FIRE, MCH Twin Creeks BH Bay Watch, or Twin Creeks MF Prairie Hawk?


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## Calliopia

Just some actual results to throw in the mix.  ps. Buck is 100% ND but has no papers. Breeder sold him as a pet thinking he wouldn't amount to much. (wrong) 

Doe 1 is  3/4 ND and 1/4 Pygmy? Not sure. 
Doe 2 is 1/2 pygmy 1/2 ND? 
Doe 3 is 100% ND from same breeder but diff line. Again unpapered. 

1) solid black doe x broken chamois buck 

1st year 
 1. Lovely tri color buck who was a drama queen
  2. Solid black buck who is physically stunning. Magnificent to look at. 

2nd year 
 1. Solid black buck w/ speckled ears. Again stunning physical conformation. From day one he was beautiful. 
 2. Bi-color doe who is a pain and an escape artist. 


2) Black doe w/ mild roaning on ears and coat, white nose.  x w same buck above 
1st year 
 1.Mostly solid white buck who was a major Pain in the A.  Just a cantankerous eating machine. 
 2. Black and white buck who looked like a baby zebra. Darling sweet personality.

2nd year. 
 1. Doe who looked like mama but w/ more salt and pepper roaning. Sweet!! 
 2/3. "Twin" doe and buck. Both have the zebra striping. White base coat, w black stripes and brown splotches.  Beautiful and sweet. 


3) Mostly black doe w/ white spot on head and one white snot stripe x w same buck. 
  Only bred 1 year. 
  1. Bi-color doe. Skittish. 
  2. Black w/ white spot doe. Skittish but coming around. 

Hope this helps.


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## Hollywood Goats

Thank you so much!! that was what I was looking for!!


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