# Meat Goat v/s Dairy Goat Feeds



## helmstead (Jun 28, 2011)

I've been lurking, and find my fingers dying to post on this topic, so I'll start a thread to avoid further hijacking the original thread (http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=11618&p=3).

Those who are advising against long term use of a meat goat feed in dairy goats, this is for you.

The ONLY differences are:
1) a coccistat (Deccox/Rumesin/etc)
2) ammonium chloride (part of the time)

The whole reason there is dairy goat feed is that you don't want the coccistat in milk.  It IS transferred into the milk at a certain rate, and coccistats are not healthy for single stomached mammals.

And, the reason you tend to find AC in meat goat feeds is that they raise more wethers, which are most prone to UC.

Otherwise...there IS NO DIFFERENCE.

We have used meat goat feeds for our whole herd from the very beginning.  The coccistat keeps your soil and GI resident cocci loads lower.  The AC keeps your bucks healthier and DOES NOT negatively affect the does (who, BTW, get UC, too!).  Using a medicated feed is just another measure towards a cocci prevention program...one that is advisable to most herds.

The only time you really must use a 'dairy' formula is when you are milking for human consumption.  When we are doing so, only our lactating doe pen gets switched to the dairy formula...ALL OTHER GOATS are on medicated meat goat pellets.

It's just like any other animal feed - there are different formulations for different things.  For instance, there's dog food for toy breed dogs and for your average adult dog...but you're not going to hurt a Shih Tzu if you feed it the adult formula, and you're not going to hurt the Lab if you feed it the toy formula.  It's still dog food.

I've said it before.  A goat is a goat is a goat.  It doesn't matter if it's an Angora, a Boer or a LaMancha - they all work the same way.

  Back into lurker-dome I go...watching the topic with interest.


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## ksalvagno (Jun 28, 2011)

My feed store doesn't offer dairy or meat goat feed. They just offer medicated or non-medicated so I have never had a specific formula anyway. Glad to know it really doesn't matter. 

When I first got goats, I went to all the local feed stores and got tags for their feeds. Then I compared them to a feed that was considered a very good goat feed and got the feed that was closest to that. My goats have been fine. Right now I don't feed the medicated to all my goats but I don't have the option to separate milking and non milking goats. All the feed at my feed store has ammonium chloride in it so it doesn't matter if the feed is medicated or non-medicated for that.


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## freemotion (Jun 28, 2011)

Glad you are lurking.  I feel safer now with my goats.....I appreciated all your input on the "Help!!!" threads.

Just a reminder, Helmstead saved several of my goat's lives in the past year.  Notably, Peach and her triplets, who are thriving.  Last year, Plum was vomiting and her advice saved her.  Plum is now producing oodles of milk and has a healthy buckling.  At least six goats are alive and well because of Kate.


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## Our7Wonders (Jun 28, 2011)

Glad to know you're lurking - I miss you!  And Helmstead has helped me many, many times - both on the board and via e-mail/PM.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 28, 2011)

So happy to see you out of lurkdom.  

I have a question about medicated feeds and I've done a little sleuthing to try and find the answer and so far haven't been able to.  My question is this:  I don't meet the suggested daily feeding amount by a long shot.  We go heavy on the alfalfa and feed less grain that what is directed on the bag.  Does that mean that I am under-dosing a coccidiostat with ramifications similar to under-dosing with dewormers or antibiotics?  I like the idea of feeding a medicated feed because whatever I can do to keep cocci levels in check is good insurance IMO, but I'd like to see some research that shows conclusively (insofaras anything with goats can be considered conclusive  ) that I am not creating super cocci by under-dosing a medication on a daily basis.  Is this less of a concern because a coccidiostat inhibits reproduction rather than actually killing them?


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## helmstead (Jun 28, 2011)

Thanks, y'all.

Nicki - Deccox is an inhibitor, it doesn't actually kill any of the cocci, just inhibits growth (works at 5 different stages of the cycle).  So, with Deccox, undermedicating adults isn't a huge deal - but in KIDS you want to somehow achieve the correct dose (Deccox-M is the best way to do this with kids, then creep feeding keeps that gap filled until they're past the 6 month mark).

Rumesin is different.  If your feed contains Rumesin and you're not feeding according to the mill's directions, you're underdosing.  Rumesin and Bovatek actually KILL cocci, and you don't want to ruin that.

If you are at all concerned, purchase Deccox crumbles and add these as a topdress to non-medicated feed to ensure the proper dose.  The feed we use, for instance, recommends 3.5 lbs per 100 lbs of goat per DAY, which is no problem here...even when we mix in alfalfa pellets and booster pellets, we do not reduce the feed pellet.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 28, 2011)

Ok- thanks!  I was thinking that there might be a difference in the coccidiostats and the coccidiocides in terms of under-dosage risks.  Good info!


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## PJisaMom (Jun 28, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> The only time you really must use a 'dairy' formula is when you are milking for human consumption.  When we are doing so, only our lactating doe pen gets switched to the dairy formula...ALL OTHER GOATS are on medicated meat goat pellets.


I have a question, and I appreciate the clarifications you've provided.  If there is essentially no difference between a meat and dairy pelleted feed, other than the specific AC and anti-cocci meds, then wouldn't and UN-medicated meat goat feed be considered essentially a "dairy" feed?  (Please tell me yes, as I just returned from the feed store with a bag of _unmedicated_ ADM Goat Power for my one-week fresh doe...)

I tried to put her on an unmedicated sweet feed slowly before she had the babies, but she's adamantly opposed to it.  Did I mention _adamantly_?

If it's *not* the "same" or if I'm missing the point, steer me to an actual feed name that one could use for lactating does... 

Thanks!


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## RPC (Jun 28, 2011)

Thank you for posting this I was wondering what the true differences really were. I have boers so I feed the meat goat anyway but am always curious whats different with other feeds and why.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 28, 2011)

PJisaMom said:
			
		

> helmstead said:
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You're better off with your ADM ration than the sweet feed anyway.  I was interested to read recently that the molasses in sweet feed is high in iron and can interfere with copper absorption.  Kate can probably give us a short list of other reasons not to feed sweet feed...   She'll be the one to clarify, but I *think* your unmedicated Goat Power is fine for your lactating gal.  I'm thinking it's 15% instead of 16%...


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## helmstead (Jun 28, 2011)

PJisaMom - yep, you're fine.  The point of a dairy feed is to provide milk that humans can drink - so a nonmedicated ration will achieve this goal.


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## Mossy Stone Farm (Jun 28, 2011)

At our farm i prefer to stay away from baged feed all together inclu my feed for birds ducks ect...  Even the dogs get RAW diet.

I feed whole grain ration that is made locally. I stay away fron Corn, Soy and all that filler...

Works well for us.


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## helmstead (Jun 28, 2011)

Mossy Stone, I'm glad that's working for you, but it's not really relevant to the topic.  Lets not turn this into a bagged v/s milled discussion.


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## Mossy Stone Farm (Jun 28, 2011)

NO intention on changeing anything  or any ones mind, this is what i feed so take it for what it is worth to you. Because i dont feed baged food dosent mean i have nothing to add to the topic.... 

There are other avenues out there it is all  about choices..


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## helmstead (Jun 28, 2011)

Please start your own thread to discuss how you feed/what you feed if you'd like to, Mossy Stone.  I would rather this thread stay on-topic, and it is discussing commercially available bagged feeds.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 28, 2011)

We are feeding a rumensin medicated feed, but the feed bag directions are for free-choice feeding.  That isn't happening on our farm. So any ideas on how much rumensin per lb of animal they actually should have to not be under-dosing?  The girls that are nursing are normally only getting 1lb, maybe slightly more per day. It does seem to keep the cocci under control, based on the fact that after I wean them and take them off the feed, I have had some yearlings, and 2 year old does break with a cocci load.   I am pretty sure our co-op is only using rumensin in all the goat feeds. 

Suggestions? thoughts?


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## helmstead (Jun 28, 2011)

20 - find out how many mg/lb of feed are in the mix, then, for Rumensin - you need between 7.5-40 mg/head/day.  I know, big margin.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 28, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> 20 - find out how many mg/lb of feed are in the mix, then, for Rumensin - you need between 7.5-40 mg/head/day.  I know, big margin.


That is a huge margin.  Thanks for the info. I will check it out.


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## Mossy Stone Farm (Jun 28, 2011)

you crack me up kate Didnt know this was your personal thread i will keep that in mind next time i post...Maybe


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## PattySh (Jun 28, 2011)

OK so I don't have any wethers at the moment, but I am assuming that a medicated  "meat goat" feed can be fed up til the time of slaughter or  is there a withdrawl period?? Considering putting the doelings (3 dairy doelings, 4 nigis) and 2 bucklings (a nigi/one alpine) on the "meat goat feed". A bit nervous about medicating them but am fairly new to  dairy goats  and want to keep them healthy.


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## helmstead (Jun 28, 2011)

Deccox doesn't have a withdrawal time but I'm not sure about Rumensin...


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## PJisaMom (Jun 29, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

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Thanks for the info... I tried...   Now I have 40lbs of sweet feed and no one to feed it to...   

I did get a chance to check the bag tonight and I'm thinking it's 16% (and when we say that we are looking at the crude protein, right?).  I have to say, this is the third bag of the Goat Power I've gotten, and it took her nearly the first two (feeding it only to her) to actually tolerate it.  

So, if I'm "getting" it, we are looking at aiming for a pelleted 16% non-medicated feed for the production gals -- is there actually any bagged feed labeled as such that is NOT a sweet feed?  That's where I've been experiencing a disconnect... so, Helmstead, your information is most appreciated.  

Is there a reason to choose medicated Noble Goat over the medicated Goat Power for the rest?


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 29, 2011)

ADM makes a Dairy Goat Power (16% protein) that is not a sweet feed.  That's what we use on our milkers.  It's non-medicated.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 29, 2011)

My feed has monensin in it, not rumensin????  It says it contains 20g/ton. And there is NO withdrawal listed. 



Also, This feed is 16% protein and  only 2.5% fat, my husband and I were thinking we needed to feed our girls a lactating feed with more like 13 or 14% protein and 3.5 to 4.5% fat.  What do you all think???  The feed we are using is actually a bagged goat grower feed, we checked with this feed store that didn't offer anything that had more fat in it or less protein.


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## helmstead (Jun 29, 2011)

Rumensin is the name brand for monensin...so they're the same.

It is really hard to find a goat feed with more than 2.5% fat.  Interestingly, it is more important with goats to have higher roughage % in the feed than higher fat.  You'll find that if you increase the roughage % in the bagged feed they will gain more quickly than if you just increase the fat.  Here we mix in alfalfa pellets and a 36% protein concentrate to feed to our lactating girls...the final numbers on that feed come to just under 18% protein and 3.5% fat with (I think I remember right) 17% roughage/fiber.  Then on the milking stanchion they get a 12% pellet we have to special order (actually a high end horse feed).

You will find some mixed arguments on how much protein is a good thing for lactating does.  Some say higher protein is hard on them, some say they need it for good production.  All I can say is what we're doing works for us.

PJisaMom - Noble Goat isn't a bad choice (would be my runner up if I couldn't get my hands on ADM)...but IMO ADM's feeds are a few notches better.  You do have to be careful with Noble Goat and bucks because it is not available with AC in all regions/from all mills.  Purina will also change the coccistat on you between batches - you have to read the tag on each bag to make sure you're not mixing Deccox and Rumensin.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jun 29, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I've been lurking, and find my fingers dying to post on this topic, so I'll start a thread to avoid further hijacking the original thread (http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=11618&p=3).
> 
> Those who are advising against long term use of a meat goat feed in dairy goats, this is for you.
> 
> ...


So there is a differance.  I personally dont want my dairy herd on medication feed for such a long period of time, besides the obvious reason, that I dont want the people who drink their milk ingesting it. As stated...not good for single stomach animals..ie humans.  I also dont want my girls to get any resistance to the drug they are ingesting.  I do fecals reqularly and treat appropriatley. As all goat owners know resistance of any kind is not worth the risk.  Although the grain mix besides the drugs in them may be very similar,  not all want to put drugs into their goats systems daily or unneccesarily. And its important to find a balanced feed that fits your use.

*MY POINT WAS...there are certain feeds for certain times of the animals life and use.*  So as your disagreeing with me...your basically saying the same thing.   

The OP was using a sweet feed for bucks without AC in it....so advising her to use medicated feed was not the best answer IMO...its the AC in the feed thats most important for this instance...and yes...females can get it..rare..but it can happen.  There are many differant feeds on the market. I dont use a strickly "Dairy Feed"  Personally never saw one..but I dont use a medicated feed on my dairy goats for reasons stated above and more.  And if I raised meat goats I can guarentee you I would use a feed that would be BEST for use and growth of the animal.  

The point is using what works best for your herds needs and the health of the herd...because NOT all feeds are the SAME...and they are differant for many differant reasons.  When owning goats..the best thing is to read labels, talk to your VETS and get what best suites your herd and their nutritional needs.  

PS There is not a milk withdrawal on most coccistats used to my knowledge.  But I still would'nt drink the milk cuz I personally dont want to ingest that.


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## helmstead (Jun 29, 2011)

What you said was:



			
				Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> I do not feed medicated feed to my dairy herd at all and would not recomend that long term for dairy animals.  It is designed for meat goats for a reason.


You have also missed the point.  If you read more carefully, you will see that the point here comes to the _base of quality goat pellets_ being the same.  And beyond milk production for human consumption, there is no contradiction to using a medicated 'meat' formula for a dairy goat.  In other words, I'm saying your recommendation that long term use in dairy animals could be a bad thing is incorrect.  Doesn't hurt a thing...and the chance that you'll underdose a coccistat is highly unlikely unless they get less than a handful per day...which isn't enough feed to justify using feed anyway.

Not all dairy goats are milked for human consumption.  Mine, actually, rarely are...I have too many bottle babies to feed.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jun 29, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> *MY POINT WAS...there are certain feeds for certain times of the animals life and use.*  So as your disagreeing with me...your basically saying the same thing.


I'm going to jump in here for a second and clarify what I understand each of you to be saying.  In the original thread, someone (can't remember who) was saying you shouldn't use meat goat feed for dairy breeds that you'll be keeping long term because it would make them too fat (or that was the assumption, that meat goat feed is meant to put weight on terminal goats quickly).  What Kate is saying, is that except for any additives like a coccidiostat or AC, the feeds are the same....meaning the breakdown of feed (ingredients, % protein, fat, etc) is the same.  Meat goat feed tends to be medicated and contain AC because generally people are feeding it to market wethers.  This means you could feed it to your dairy goats (non-lactating) and they'd do just fine. The only reason you wouldn't want to use it for your milkers is because of the coccidiostat.   Dairy goat feed typically doesn't contain a coccidiostat or AC because it's typically fed to lactating females.


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## helmstead (Jun 29, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

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Exactly and nutshelled...thanks


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 29, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Rumensin is the name brand for monensin...so they're the same.
> 
> It is really hard to find a goat feed with more than 2.5% fat.  Interestingly, it is more important with goats to have higher roughage % in the feed than higher fat.  You'll find that if you increase the roughage % in the bagged feed they will gain more quickly than if you just increase the fat.  Here we mix in alfalfa pellets and a 36% protein concentrate to feed to our lactating girls...the final numbers on that feed come to just under 18% protein and 3.5% fat with (I think I remember right) 17% roughage/fiber.  Then on the milking stanchion they get a 12% pellet we have to special order (actually a high end horse feed).
> 
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the crude fiber on the bag says 16%, roughage products is first on the list, followed by grain products. then grain-by-products.  Does the order of the ingredients really matter, does that have to show the order of how much is in the bag compared to the other ingred?

I did the calculations and my goats are getting 10mg or monensin per lb of feed.  So my adult goats are only getting 10mg per day. HMMMM.  I hope that is enough and not ruining the way the medicine works, since I really have no intentions of giving them much more than that.


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## helmstead (Jun 29, 2011)

Roughage products first is good, that means your feed is probably alfalfa meal based.

According to the chart I found (published by the maker of Rumensin 100, with a side chart on generic Monensin doses)...since you're over 7.5 mg/head/day, you're good.  The reading I did led me to believe that the lower you are on the chart the better, because overdosing monensin can cause weight loss & scouring (altho I think getting over 40 mg/head/day would be darn near impossible in a goat).  The warnings were geared towards the actual feed mill - recommending to add the Rumensin/monensin to extruded pellets and not in a milled grain, so the product would not settle out and suddenly be ingested in large amounts or be picked through and not ingested at all or in adequate amounts.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 29, 2011)

Thanks for the topic, we went to the feed store this spring specifically looking for lactating ration for our meat does after they kid. We were confussed to see they didn't sell anything too different than what we are already using. they had 3 choices, but known that went, BAM I am for lactating goats.   There are a lot of dairy goats around us, so that left me wondering what was up with that.  There is another co-op on the otherside of us, but they  have difficult hours for us to get to them, and they sell a 15% protein/higher fat feed than what we are using, it was not pelleted, it looked like oats and stuff like you would feed a horse. it was medicated and had AC in it for goats.  We are thinking about trying that,

But are worried the kids wont switch over to the pelleted feed in the creep-feed zone as well, if the moms are eating a non-pelleted feed, I wouldn't call it a sweet feed, it didn't have tons of mollasses in it, it looked more like dry ground up oats, and little tiny peices of corn, ect..... I think it was 3.5 or 4.5 % fat.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 29, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Roughage products first is good, that means your feed is probably alfalfa meal based.
> 
> According to the chart I found (published by the maker of Rumensin 100, with a side chart on generic Monensin doses)...since you're over 7.5 mg/head/day, you're good.  The reading I did led me to believe that the lower you are on the chart the better, because overdosing monensin can cause weight loss & scouring (altho I think getting over 40 mg/head/day would be darn near impossible in a goat).  The warnings were geared towards the actual feed mill - recommending to add the Rumensin/monensin to extruded pellets and not in a milled grain, so the product would not settle out and suddenly be ingested in large amounts or be picked through and not ingested at all or in adequate amounts.


My show goats(50 to 70lb kids) are eating near 3 lbs a day, before we switch them over to show feed. That would be 30mg. Hmmmmm maybe that is too much. 

That is interesting about the less is more.  very good information to know. 

so the doe that I was babying all winter, that is helping herself to feed everyday, she lets herself out and then back in to the barn, she is getting around 3 to 4 lbs of the feed a day, 30 to 40mg, that is probably not good for her. Hmmmmm  

We were going to cull this doe, but after copper bolusing her and doing a few rounds of red cell and iron shots she is doing a lot better, we have since decided to give her another chance thinking perhaps she was really low on copper.   I really need to do some blood work on her.  sorry off topic.


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## helmstead (Jun 29, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> My show goats(50 to 70lb kids) are eating near 3 lbs a day, before we switch them over to show feed. That would be 30mg. Hmmmmm maybe that is too much.
> 
> That is interesting about the less is more.  very good information to know.
> 
> so the doe that I was babying all winter, that is helping herself to feed everyday, she lets herself out and then back in to the barn, she is getting around 3 to 4 lbs of the feed a day, 30 to 40mg, that is probably not good for her. Hmmmmm


I would tend to say that if you aren't seeing weight loss (which obviously on show animals would be counterproductive!) that you're within the safe margin.  I cannot find the actual mg/head/day that is dangerous.  The 40 mg/head/day was just the top of the margin on that chart...they always give you just enough information to make you call...


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## Griffin's Ark (Jun 29, 2011)

I don't know if I missed it or what, but if the feed has ammonium chloride in it, does that make the milk from the goats eating it... not desirable? Though does do not have the problems with UC that bucks do, they develop stones at the same rate and can cause irritation and infections. The reason I ask is because I have found an unmedicated goat feed that has AC in it and we feed it to all the goats over one year old.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 29, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

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The bag of feed says feed free-choice, so you would think they would be taking a big eater into account, These are meat goats after all, They have very healthy appetites. It says you don't even have to feed hay or anything with it, designed to be the only feed. That would explain the alfalfa roughage in it, it does have very nice greenish pellets, we switched from another feed/co-op a few years ago, their goat grower feed was brown lookin, pellets crumbled too easily and feed was wasted, I am assuming it had more corn and soy in it. 

It is amazing how 3 feed stores all with in a 10 minute drive from me, have such different 16 % goat developer/grower feed.


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## helmstead (Jun 29, 2011)

GA - It doesn't affect the milk's flavor and is mostly water soluble and excreted through the urine...and is an FDA approved food additive, so is safe for human consumption (E510).


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## helmstead (Jun 29, 2011)

20 - I have read a thread on another forum where a breeder's goats ate the 'dust' as she used the very last of a bag of medicated feed and became quite ill (severe scouring).  We wondered at the time if the dust contained a concentrated amount of the medication...I surely bet that was the case.  Luckily the feed I use is a good, firm pellet and we don't find much dust in the bags...just one of those things that stuck in my head though.

There is a similar thing around me.  I live in Boer country and each producer around me does a different thing when it comes to show and market prep.  Some use a milled feed like you described, some use pellets, some tout one brand over another...the feed mills (I have 4 within 30 minutes of me) seem to cater to the largest producer near them, and push that product that they made for that producer to the other producers.  I personally prefer extruded pellets because they offer uniform intake and no picking through different grains to eat the 'candy'.


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## PJisaMom (Jun 29, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> PJisaMom - Noble Goat isn't a bad choice (would be my runner up if I couldn't get my hands on ADM)...but IMO ADM's feeds are a few notches better.  You do have to be careful with Noble Goat and bucks because it is not available with AC in all regions/from all mills.  Purina will also change the coccistat on you between batches - you have to read the tag on each bag to make sure you're not mixing Deccox and Rumensin.


Hmmm... *that's* interesting... why would they do that?  It is hit or miss trying to get the Noble Goat around here, but the elevator keeps ADM Meat Goat Power pretty well stocked... Headed back there today to pick up the medicated version for everyone else and the babies, and see if they can order me the "dairy" version of the Goat Power for Lulu (again noted that it's really the same thing...  ).  

This has been a most beneficial discussion.  Thank you!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jun 29, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

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My condradiction to using a meat formula for dairy is "MEDICATION" in the feed.  I dont do it...and dont recomend it. Thats my personal opinion. I never stated it would be bad for the animal per se.  My opinion is based on use of animal and nutritional needs for thier use.  But in my post on this thread I stated I am not a fan of using medication long term is because of resistance to the drug.  Its a HUGE problem in the livestock world...including the anitbiotic use in the meat we buy in the grocery store which is a well known issue.  Again this is my opinion I formulated after researching and finding the best needs of my herd and their use.  I dont want to create superbugs in my herd and feel "IMO" is the best choice for my herd.  

Agreed that most grains bases are similar...not issues with that...but my issue is that all feeds have additives for certain times of the goats life and the use of the livestock.  So for the optimum preformance of the animals you are raising it is important to understand the diety needs for those animals for thier use.  As you stated you dont have alot of lactacing does you are milking..you find it not to be a problem to use a medicated feed for all it works for you and thats okay.    

 I'm a dairy farmer and use my does for milking...not meat.  I am not INCORRECT in saying that I dont want my goats on medicated feed long term.  Its a choice I have made over the years...works well for me.  I also dont feed my chickens medicated feed either.  I consume them and choose not to eat a side of antibiotics with my chicken.  Personal choice.  

That was the point I was trying to get across in the post...and apparently it did'nt come out clear enough. I personally dont use medicated feeds for dairy animals..and dont recomend it cuz certain animals need certain nutrition for the needs and use.  

All herdmans will have differant opinions on feeds and what works well for them....so no one right or wrong here.  And its important we both help stress the importance of nutritional needs for differant uses of peoples livestock.  Cuz as we both witnessed on this forum incorrect feedings of the animals can be detrimental to the animal.  So thats my story and Im sticking to it!!  

The best advice I can give to all who are unsure now after reading this is too understand the nutritional needs of a goat/ruminant and learn about what their nutritional needs are for what their being used for and their age etc...all of that should be considered when feeding time comes.  Most have already formulated an opinion on medicating or non...organic or non.  

Good luck!! Happy chomp chomping goaties!!


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## helmstead (Jun 29, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> As you stated you dont have alot of lactacing does you are milking..you find it not to be a problem to use a medicated feed for all it works for you and thats okay.
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> I'm a dairy farmer and use my does for milking...not meat.
> 
> All herdmans will have differant opinions on feeds and what works well for them....so no one right or wrong here.


A)  I milk my WHOLE herd.  We just rarely GET any of that milk for ourselves because we feed bottle babies with it.  This spring, I had FOURTY lactating does, FYI, and should have somewhere in the ball park of 20 this fall in milk.  I'm currently milking 3.

A-2)  We don't eat our goats, either...nor do our customers LOL.  I use a meat goat product to feed to them majority of them, but I'm still a dairy farmer 

B)  We are not discussing how you want to feed here, no one has tried to convince you to use medicated feed.  But, yes, it was wrong to make a broad statement to the effect of 'meat' formulas being 'bad long term' for dairy goats, which is why I composed this thread.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jun 29, 2011)

Again:   My condradiction to using a meat formula for dairy is "MEDICATION" in the feed.  I dont do it...and dont recomend it. Thats my personal opinion. I never stated it would be bad for the animal per se.  My opinion is based on use of animal and nutritional needs for thier use.  But in my post on this thread I stated I am not a fan of using medication long term is because of resistance to the drug.  Its a HUGE problem in the livestock world...

This is why I feel medicated feed is not the most desired feed for an all purpose general feed.  This is my opinion.  This is how I feel. I personally give medication to sick animals only.  Thats how I feed my herd and tend to thier health issues.

Let me put it this way...we make a batch of cookies...butter, sugar, flour, eggs...its just a plain cookie...and pretty much the base ingrediants for all cookies.  Agreed?  We add chocolate chips or penut butter..they become differant cookies.  Thats how I feel about the feeds.  Once you add differant things to the feeds they become used for differant stages, uses etc.   

I personally dont believe that medicated goat feed will kill your dairy herd for them long term per se.  I know that. But its a personal opinion I have and I dont like to medicate when its not necessary.  For various reasons posted.   

I think I have been clear on my opinion on feed and why I do what I do.  I dont think feeding goats is so black and white.  

I think everyone gets where were both coming from by now!!!  I will definatley elabortate on broad statements in the future!!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 29, 2011)

I thought we were talking about UNMEDICATED meat goat feeds being basically the same as dairy formulas...?  Or I'm lost.


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## PattySh (Jun 29, 2011)

No unmedicated meat goat feeds available locally, all have a coccistat added. I agree I won't feed my milking does medicated feed (we are milking 5 currently and the family is using t he milk). I am basically worried that using a medicated (labeled for meat goats) feed long term on male animals might be harmful to their livers etc. Going to do some research and consult my vet before making a decision. Meanwhile  not using grain  on the young buckling and my 2 bucks are hay only and good weight. I am the one who lost 2 bucklings and believe started this issue, Still not sure if it was the grain I am noting alot less water consumption with the new good quality mixed grass hay. When we had to substitute older dryer hay the water consumption went way up (doubled). It is back to normal. Still thinking it was the hay and possibly an impaction or choke.  The two we lost were first at the hay feeder more aggresive eaters, the other two more laid back. Still feel terrible because it was a vehicle losing a transmission that we could not transport  hay  from elsewhere like I normally do this time of year when my supplier has little left.He delivers so  I took what he had because the cutting season is very late this year. Won't do that again ever this time of year.  Normally his hay is excellent but he had little left as I had filled my barn for the year and miscalculated. I am hoping the worst is over. Trying not to dwell on our losses and spent alot of time outside enjoying the goats and other animals today. I so much appreciate all the information available on this site (wish they would put a chat thingy on!).


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 30, 2011)

PattySh said:
			
		

> No unmedicated meat goat feeds available locally, all have a coccistat added. I agree I won't feed my milking does medicated feed (we are milking 5 currently and the family is using t he milk). I am basically worried that using a medicated (labeled for meat goats) feed long term on male animals might be harmful to their livers etc. Going to do some research and consult my vet before making a decision. Meanwhile  not using grain  on the young buckling and my 2 bucks are hay only and good weight. I am the one who lost 2 bucklings and believe started this issue, Still not sure if it was the grain I am noting alot less water consumption with the new good quality mixed grass hay. When we had to substitute older dryer hay the water consumption went way up (doubled). It is back to normal. Still thinking it was the hay and possibly an impaction or choke.  The two we lost were first at the hay feeder more aggresive eaters, the other two more laid back. Still feel terrible because it was a vehicle losing a transmission that we could not transport  hay  from elsewhere like I normally do this time of year when my supplier has little left.He delivers so  I took what he had because the cutting season is very late this year. Won't do that again ever this time of year.  Normally his hay is excellent but he had little left as I had filled my barn for the year and miscalculated. I am hoping the worst is over. Trying not to dwell on our losses and spent alot of time outside enjoying the goats and other animals today. I so much appreciate all the information available on this site (wish they would put a chat thingy on!).


Yes, things happen in farming and you have to just move on.  Trying to think about what could have caused it has to be seperate from the thought what did I do wrong.  Really just have to step back and not beat yourself up. We have all been there, well I know I have been there.


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