# choosing a breed... Help?



## Holachicka (Apr 14, 2011)

I want to get meat rabbits (as soon as I can convince dh!)   I was wondering what breed choices everyone has and why? I really would like a large rabbit so that I can get more meat per butchering, but worry about the food conversions and if that is worth it. Any thoughts? Thanks!


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## Legacy (Apr 14, 2011)

You really need to figure out what your needs are. Do you want just meat, or pelts too? Are you doing for just food or food, fun, & make a little money?

We started out with meat rabbits just for our family. (Californians and NZ) but the more I do it, the more fun I am having with experimenting with mixed breeds. They are all still rather large rabbits but I like them for the pelts too and want to sell a few pets to help with the cost of the meat for us.

I am really, really, wanting to add standard rex to our herd but am having the hardest time finding some local. I have even put an add on craigslist looking for them.

I want them because 1)they are rather large(not the largest but big enough) 2)beautiful pelts 3) they are obviously hard to find so there might be more of a market for them 4) I just really, really, like them and I want, I want, I want!


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## dewey (Apr 14, 2011)

There's really quite a few very nice meat breeds!   

No matter the meat breed, a lot will depend on the stock you get.  Inferior stock from a great breed will produce needlessly expensive and undesirable yields.     

NZ's & cali or their crosses are a couple of the most useful meat breeds because of their superb feed to meat ratio.  

There's many other nice meat breeds, too.  Links to some info... 

All breeds: http://www.raising-rabbits.com/all-rabbit-breeds.html
http://www.arba.net/faq4.htm#Q1
http://www.raising-rabbits.com/meat-rabbits.html 

Breeds larger than the commercial NZ or cali breeds will get very large but they have an undesirably high bone to meat ratio.  Though very large, they produce less meat than the more standard meat breeds...their feed to meat ratio is lower so they will co$t much more to produce each pound of meat, plus will have more bone than desirable for most of those interested in meat.

There's a few giant or non typical meat breed breeders around here that tell unsuspecting buyers that because their breed gets so big they'll get more meat.  Best thing is to research each meat breed thorougly from reputable sources and make the best choice for your situation and availability.

All the best!


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## hoodat (Apr 15, 2011)

I just raise,"Meat mutts"; mixed breeds that originally came from pet shop returns of rabbits that outgrew their cages and desirability as pets. Rabbits half grown are hard for them to sell so I get them at a good price. Starting with mixed breeds you can improve your own line till you end up with very good meat rabbits and it's kind of fun to have your own line.


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## rickerra (Apr 25, 2011)

I just got my breeding trio.

They are a {Creme d'Argent x Black New Zealand} buck and two sister {American Chinchilla x Creme d'Argent} does.  Not the usual meat breeders but plenty good size and very soft blackish-brown fur.

I'll let you know how it goes.  Expecting litters in 4 weeks.

I'm told they all taste the same!  (except the wild ones!) haha.

Cheers!


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## Holachicka (Apr 25, 2011)

I hope they all taste the same!  I think I'll end up getting californian and new zealands, and experimenting with some crosses from those. I'm not looking for purebred. BUT I do want the kits to pretty much look alike so that way I won't get attached to any!  I'm a bit of a sucker for furries.


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## animalsRawsome (Apr 25, 2011)

I agree thatCals and New Z are good meat rabbits. Also, if you have litters at the right time, those breeds are what all the 4-H kids are looking for, so you should not have a problem selling some to help pay for feed! Just a thought.


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## hoodat (Apr 26, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> I hope they all taste the same!  I think I'll end up getting californian and new zealands, and experimenting with some crosses from those. I'm not looking for purebred. BUT I do want the kits to pretty much look alike so that way I won't get attached to any!  I'm a bit of a sucker for furries.


You're wise to steer clear of purebreds, especially those breeds popular for shows. Some of those lines are too inbred. Inbreeding effects rabbits less than most other animals but it still has a weakening effect if carried too far.


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## Holachicka (Apr 26, 2011)

hoodat said:
			
		

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I really dislike the idea of inbreeding, even if it's not apparent, it really gives me the heebie-jeebies! I'm sure that whatever I get will probably have some inbreeding along the lines, but for me, I'll be breeding stock as unrelated as possible!


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## Bossroo (Apr 26, 2011)

I have worked at UCD Veterinary Pathology Dept..  For reseach purposes,  I had personally bred ( into the thausands) an allready inbred line of mice for 29 generations  ( father x daughter, son x mother, brother x sister) with no ill effects. So probably over 100 generations. The resulting offspring were virtual genetic clones of each other. This was in the days before actual cloning was even possible.   I inbred ( into the high hundreds) a line of guinea pigs for 20 generations, again no ill effects.  I have inbred ( into the thausands) a line of rabbits  for 15 generations with no ill effects. Yes, we necropsied them and examined their cell tissues under  microscopes.  The only time one will run into a difficulty is only if there is a genetic fault in the original parent stock, failure to ruthlessly cull any obveous deformed or unthrifty offspring and their parents,  or a new faulty mutation that spontaniously may pop up.  A large animal example in inbreeding is the Morgan horse breed.  All of them descend from ONE original stallion... Justin Morgan.  How do you think new species are formed? A new mutation in a single individual that when it's offspring then has an competative advantage to survival in their environment over their original counterparts. Or an environmental change in an isolated area that kills off any individual or group that can't adjust to the new change, then the survivors will breed on. Or an isolated group invades a new territory and interbreeds with a closely related group, which then has a genetic advantage for survival for that environment.


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## dewey (Apr 26, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> I hope they all taste the same!  I think I'll end up getting californian and new zealands, and experimenting with some crosses from those. I'm not looking for purebred. BUT I do want the kits to pretty much look alike so that way I won't get attached to any!  I'm a bit of a sucker for furries.


Those breeds and their crosses are excellent choices for meat production, as are several others, including their crosses.  Breeds that have been carefully bred for their great meat production is the safest bet...something that's been proven over and over for generations in show meat pens.  It's usually a significant delay, in time and cost, at the very least, trying to line or inbreed total unknown multi-breed crosses to try to eventually improve or create a good meat stock line when good quality meat breeding stock is available to start with, also usually at a significant cost savings.


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## Holachicka (Apr 26, 2011)

Bossroo said:
			
		

> I have worked at UCD Veterinary Pathology Dept..  For reseach purposes,  I had personally bred ( into the thausands) an allready inbred line of mice for 29 generations  ( father x daughter, son x mother, brother x sister) with no ill effects. So probably over 100 generations. The resulting offspring were virtual genetic clones of each other. This was in the days before actual cloning was even possible.   I inbred ( into the high hundreds) a line of guinea pigs for 20 generations, again no ill effects.  I have inbred ( into the thausands) a line of rabbits  for 15 generations with no ill effects. Yes, we necropsied them and examined their cell tissues under  microscopes.  The only time one will run into a difficulty is only if there is a genetic fault in the original parent stock, failure to ruthlessly cull any obveous deformed or unthrifty offspring and their parents,  or a new faulty mutation that spontaniously may pop up.  A large animal example in inbreeding is the Morgan horse breed.  All of them descend from ONE original stallion... Justin Morgan.  How do you think new species are formed? A new mutation in a single individual that when it's offspring then has an competative advantage to survival in their environment over their original counterparts. Or an environmental change in an isolated area that kills off any individual or group that can't adjust to the new change, then the survivors will breed on. Or an isolated group invades a new territory and interbreeds with a closely related group, which then has a genetic advantage for survival for that environment.


I know It's pretty ignorant of me, but it still gives me the creeps!  It's good to know though because whatever I end up getting will most likely have some inbreeding.


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## Holachicka (Apr 26, 2011)

dewey said:
			
		

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I definately want to stick with the meat breeds or their crosses. I've read that "Pet" breeds can be faty, and the advantage of the fast growth and bone to meat ratio of the meat breeds really appeals to me. The longer the kits hang around, the harder it will be to not become attached.


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## rabbitgeek (Apr 26, 2011)

Line breeding is controlled in-breeding. It's used to reinforce genetic traits. So when you have a great rabbit, it's a proven way to almost "clone" that rabbit. But care must be taken to cull any rabbits that don't meet the mark since any undesireable traits will also be reinforced by linebreeding. Line breeding is common in many types of livestock.

That's why the animals used in labs are linebred and inbred. To have consistent genetic traits during testing.

Have a good day!


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## rabbitgeek (Apr 26, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> I hope they all taste the same!  I think I'll end up getting californian and new zealands, and experimenting with some crosses from those. I'm not looking for purebred. BUT I do want the kits to pretty much look alike so that way I won't get attached to any!  I'm a bit of a sucker for furries.


Some people say that white rabbits taste different from black fur rabbits. The meat on dark fur rabbits is noticeably darker, but I can't say they taste any different.

Getting purebred meat rabbits means that one is buying genetics with consistent results. Showbunny breeders have to select what to keep and what to remove (cull) from the breeding program. The culls are sent to the meat processor.

So a show breeder can have an incentive to select for bone/meat ratio, feed conversion, litter size, mothering ablity to raise a high percentage of the litter to weaning, have consistent butcher weight.

I know showbreeders who even keep two separate herds. One for show and one for meat production. 

The meat herd will have heads that are not the right shape or an ear that flops down.  But they will throw litters of 10 to 12 kits and raise them all. 

There is even a contest in rabbit shows for meat pens and fryers. The meat pen and fryer competition is a demonstration of the breeders' ability to produce a market animal of consistent size and quality. 

Many fairs have meat pen competition where the wining animals are sent to auction and the money raised goes to the breeder, usually a youth exhibitor.

You can read more about raising meat pens on my website
http://www.rabbitgeek.com/meatpennotes.html

The American Rabbit Breeder's Association was created by breeders who ate rabbit! It's not just showbunnies. It's about Food, Fur, and Fancy.

By the way, my favorite meat rabbit is the Dutch. I know. They're cute. But the cobby bodies are like little meat bricks with a 55% carcass weight after processing.

Have a good day!
Franco Rios


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## Holachicka (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks Franco! By the way, hi neighbor, I'm in Folsom CA!


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## dewey (Apr 27, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

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...another good reason to have fast growing breeds or crosses. 

But seriously, placing attachments towards your keepers or the ones to be sold is the way to go. LOL  

My kits are kept with the doe until processing at 8 weeks or so, and handled only as needed.  They go straight from the does pen to processing.  My keepers are usually known much earlier than that, so those are handled as much as possible.

But, when you have several does you'd be surprised how little time there is to handle all the kits a lot in the first place...which is actually a good thing when they're being raised for the dinner table.


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## Holachicka (Apr 27, 2011)

Good point! I plan on making my breeders pets so that the kids will be able to play with them, but also so they have an understanding of where our food comes from. I know that many friends will call me mean, eating these poor sweet bunnies, but I don't see it that way. Plus, I LOVE RABBIT!

I've gotten so ahead of myself, I havn't even convinced DH to let me do this yet! ! I'd love any tips on that as well!


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## dewey (Apr 27, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> Good point! I plan on making my breeders pets so that the kids will be able to play with them, but also so they have an understanding of where our food comes from. I know that many friends will call me mean, eating these poor sweet bunnies, but I don't see it that way. Plus, I LOVE RABBIT!
> 
> I've gotten so ahead of myself, I havn't even convinced DH to let me do this yet! ! I'd love any tips on that as well!


The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.    I'd simply inform of the fact...but maybe that's just me.  haha


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## Boyd (Apr 30, 2011)

I raise cals, and silver fox.. and I cross both for my meat and pelt needs...


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## rabbitgeek (Apr 30, 2011)

Holachicka said:
			
		

> Good point! I plan on making my breeders pets so that the kids will be able to play with them, but also so they have an understanding of where our food comes from. I know that many friends will call me mean, eating these poor sweet bunnies, but I don't see it that way. Plus, I LOVE RABBIT!
> 
> I've gotten so ahead of myself, I havn't even convinced DH to let me do this yet! ! I'd love any tips on that as well!


Serve hubby some rabbit meat. You said you live in Folsom? Call different Raley's supermarkets. Some of them have rabbit for sale. Expect to pay $8-$10 per pound.

Have a good day!


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