# Question about taming goats



## pattyjean73 (May 23, 2009)

I finally got my starting herd of goats. 2 boer does, 1 boer buck, 1 alpine doe.  I still looking for a couple more does (found them just got to pick them up) and a herd sire. 

I don't think they were handled much. If I walk up to them they walk away from me.  Now once I get ahold of them they'll stand still for me and let me rub them down. But I want them to come running to me when they see me enter their shelter and eat out of my hand and be "loving" pets.  I don't want them to be afraid of me.

Now my buckling won't walk away from me but he doesn't come running either. 

What is the best way for me to teach them not to be leery of me and to see me as their friend and companion?  What kinds of treats can I give them to entice them?

Would it be better if I tether them so that they can't run off until they get to know me?

Any suggestions and advice would be welcomed and appreciated.


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## wynedot55 (May 23, 2009)

just put the feed out an stand back.an let them come to the feed.they are getting used to a new place.


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## freemotion (May 23, 2009)

One of my pygmies was a rescue who was pretty wild, she was in a somewhat abusive environment.  Catching her was quite a feat.  She would dash up for a treat then dash away.  She would stay near me if there was a fence in between us, but she knew from her last family that she could be hit and chased if a human was on the same side of the fence.  Not by anyone on my property, that is, her previous home, which I could see from my yard, and I yelled at those people about it many times.  They finally sold all the goats, I took two.

When she started to shed, I would catch her and brush her.  She acted like I was tearing her limb from limb, but I know she liked it, because she would pause briefly now and then and get that dreamy look in her eyes when I hit just the right spot.  So I brushed her every day.  Gradually, she calmed down and really enjoyed it, but for months I had to catch her and at first she acted like I was going to hurt her, then she would remember that it was ok.

It took about two years for her to willingly approach me.  She still hid in the barn if any strangers were nearby, peaking suspiciously from a safe distance.  We had a couple of guy friends come and care for them when we went away, and we asked them to work with her a bit whenever they had time.  They both rose to the challenge, and she really turned around.  

Now she runs up to me and waits for her scratch.  If my attention is not on her, she will pull on my clothes to get my attention and get her scratching and patting.  She loves it when I gently stroke her eyes, she will squeeze them shut and hold very still for as long as I am willing to stroke her face.

So be patient and plan for the long haul!  Sounds like you won't have nearly the trouble I had, since they have obviously been handled nicely, just not as pets.


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## zatsenoughcritters4me (May 23, 2009)

do you have pictures? I know our goats are food addicts! they will come for food like gangbusters! all we have to do is open the metal garbage can lid we keep the feed in and they hear that from 1/4 mile away!


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## Chirpy (May 23, 2009)

Food is your friend!      Have treats available and just hold them in your hand, letting them come to you.    The biggest thing that I've learned with 'unhandled' goats is to never chase them or corner them.  Let them come to you and take it slow and easy.   Work around them and talk to them while you are near them.   Almost all goats will warm up to you over time.

My two Nigis wouldn't let me touch them or get near them when I got them.  It only took 1 1/2 weeks to win one over and two weeks to win the other one other.   Now... I can't get them off me!     Mine were only 8 weeks old though....

Good luck and have fun with them.


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## pattyjean73 (May 23, 2009)

I'm hoping they'll come around.   I bought them feed today.  Just plain ole goat feed from my local feed store.  I don't even think the bag had a brand label.  Anway... I opened it and poured it into the container I have for storage.  I had hoped they'd see, hear, or smell it and come running but they didn't.  I approached them with some in my hands and still they walked away once I got within 3 feet of them (all but Billy. He'll eat out of my hand).  But tonight they raised my hopes.  When I actually poured the feed into their feed trough they all came a running.  All but one would eat out of my hand at that point. 

I used to do dog rescues and I often had shy unsocialized dogs to train.  I think I can use the same technique with the goats as I did with the dogs. I used to carry a pouch hooked to my belt loop full of dog cookies.  It didn't take long for the dogs to learn that I had treats on me and they'd want to come to me to get the treats.  After awhile they'd accept pettings and eventually demand pettings.  

I'm just not real sure on what kind of treats to carry around in my pocket or a pouch for goats.  Today when I was at TSC I saw a bag of oat and apple treats for horses.  I wondered if that would be good for them. I can almost bet that the goats will start coming to me and nuzzling my pocket once they figured out that I carried those treats with me all the time.   I also read that raisins make a good treat???  Any input on treat ideas?


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## zatsenoughcritters4me (May 24, 2009)

be careful what you wish for!! When I bring treats outside I am handing it out and if they are behind me and I don't turn around they jump up on me!! It is pretty intense when I have 7 boer/saanan goats climbing on me! Baby goats are still small but they do the same thing!!! Get a good footing or you will be knocked over! My nephew was giving the goats branches and he ended up climbing up in the tree! We were all laughing, and so was he!


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## freemotion (May 24, 2009)

pattyjean73 said:
			
		

> .
> 
> Today when I was at TSC I saw a bag of oat and apple treats for horses.  I wondered if that would be good for them. I can almost bet that the goats will start coming to me and nuzzling my pocket once they figured out that I carried those treats with me all the time.   I also read that raisins make a good treat???  Any input on treat ideas?


I'm sure they will be tame for you in no time at all.  Sounds like they are not afraid, just haven't been really "spoiled" at all and never interacted as pets.  They should come around pretty quickly if you carry a treat pouch.

Like dogs, they will know when it is empty or if there is one crumb left!  I prefer to give real food when practical.  Carrots are dry enough to go in a pouch without making a mess, raisins, too.   Just cut those carrots up really, really small and one will go a long way.

I always got a chuckle out of apple and carrot flavored horse treats, having owned horses and boarded them at times, many other owners buy those treats by the bucketful, literally.  And the animal really prefers the real thing, real apples and carrots, which are much cheaper and much healthier.

Brocolli trimmings are yummy to goats, and dry enough for the pouch.  Turnips and rutabagas, too, are popular here.  

Keep in mind that flour-based or grain-based treats are like giving grain, so keep in mind how many treats they get and adjust their next meal.  Just like dogs, but instead of getting fat, they can also get very sick or die from overeating. 

My goats love it if I just snatch up a few maple leaves for them!


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## FarmerMack (May 25, 2009)

zatsenoughcritters4me said:
			
		

> be careful what you wish for!! When I bring treats outside I am handing it out and if they are behind me and I don't turn around they jump up on me!! It is pretty intense when I have 7 boer/saanan goats climbing on me! Baby goats are still small but they do the same thing!!! Get a good footing or you will be knocked over! My nephew was giving the goats branches and he ended up climbing up in the tree! We were all laughing, and so was


I love the photos, my goats know when i pick up the tree loppers that they will be getting some branches and follow me around the pen bleating at me until i come back with the tree branches i intend on giving them. Their favorite is apple tree branches, the push and show each other and the leaves and bark is stripped off in minutes. 

Farmer Mack


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## pattyjean73 (May 25, 2009)

I got a pleasant surprise this morning...

I've been taking it slow with the goats.  I'll drop enough grain in the feeder for them to hear and come running (although now they come running when they see me). They'll munch on the grain and I'll make a very evident point at letting them see me get grain out of the grain bucket.  They watch and learn.  I'll sit on a bucket and wait patiently for them to gobble up the little bit of grain I give them.  Of course they want more and they know its in that bucket.  So I'll let them watch me grab a handful out of the bucket and hold my hand out to them. At first they were hesitant to approach me, but they really wanted what was in my hand so they gave up the ghost and came to me.  I've been feeding them many small meals each day (trying to put some weight on them too).  I'll let them eat out of my hand, but only if they let me touch or pet them. Again they were unsure at first but eventually let me rub on them while eating out of my hand.  It didn't take long for them to learn that the rubbings felt pretty good.  Now three of them will come to me not only for food, but also for a good rubbing. This morning, to my surprise, my little alpine lays her head on my leg and if i didn't pet her right away she pressed into me demanding the rubbing.  2 of the others haven't quite gotten that far, but they'll let me pet them whether or not i have food in my hand.  I still have one more... my yearling, that still prefers that I not touch her.  She'll back off when i touch her but she's getting better and better with eat feeding. I think she'll come around.  I'm pleased with their progress.  They've come a long way in the 3 days I've had them.  I'm going to pick up 2 more later in the week (both 7 month doelings).  And I just purchased a very nice and very HUGE buckling that I intend to make head herd sire.  He is 8 weeks old and already 48 lbs.  His dad is over 200 lbs and he is only 14 months old himself.  I've named him Hercules. I can hardly wait to bring him home!


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## crazy4cochins (May 25, 2009)

Good for you pattyjean73.
I have been interacting with my soon to be goats and the little doe starts to bleat when she hears my voice now. and I can hear then jump up on the doors on the pen trying to get a peek.
It seems they are maybe eaiser to win over than the dogs?


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## pattyjean73 (May 25, 2009)

I'm beginning to agree with you on that.  I was lucky, the ones I got weren't totally pasture goats so they were used to people being in their pen and near them.  I just don't think that they were treated as pets per se. I would imagine a goat straight off the open pasture would take more time to "tame".


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## zatsenoughcritters4me (May 25, 2009)

pattyjean73 said:
			
		

> And I just purchased a very nice and very HUGE buckling that I intend to make head herd sire.  He is 8 weeks old and already 48 lbs.  His dad is over 200 lbs and he is only 14 months old himself.  I've named him Hercules. I can hardly wait to bring him home!


they did warn you about the buck and how he will be very stinky when he gets bigger and realizes what his job will be  I hope.... they pee on their heads and you won't want to pet them unless you have gloves on! Our samson is a huge boer billy and he is a big baby, but does this rearing up stuff and then stomps his feet back to the ground and pushes on us, he is well over 200 lbs!
very stinky goat but we love him anyways!


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## pattyjean73 (May 25, 2009)

Yes I'm aware that bucks are "stinky".

Although there are alot of different theories. About half the people I talk to suggest keeping the buck seperated from the doe herd. There are plenty of viable reasons to do this as we all know I'm sure.

But the other half says to keep them in with the herd.   I believe in doing whatever works for you. Seeing as this is my first herd, I'm sure I'll have plenty of trial and errors to go through. I do have two seperate pens set up (just need a shed built in the second one) for "just in case whatever" but I'm going to start out with keeping the herd together and let nature run its course.  Many of the people I have talked to that own goats state that the buck only smells bad when he's seperated. I have only been to two goat "farms" and they both keep the buck in with their does.  I didn't notice an offensive odor at either place.

I never go into the goat pen (or anywhere else outside the house) without gloves anyway if I intend to do any working.   ha ha ha  I might break a nail if I do.


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## zatsenoughcritters4me (May 26, 2009)

we keep samson separate from the does until breeding season, then he runs with them for a few months, usually separating them after about 3 months. we also want to make sure that they are all bred, but don't want to go out of our window of when we want kids
if milking you need to keep the buck far away from your milkers, it will alter the milk flavor!! '
sometimes the buck is not as stinky as other times, like breeding season. 
My DH warned me before we brought my darling little 5 month buck home last year, and sure enough when he saw the girls, he started!!! 
I am glad he warned me!


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## FarmerMack (May 26, 2009)

pattyjean73 said:
			
		

> Yes I'm aware that bucks are "stinky"


That's interesting, i was told the same thing but i have never noticed my 3 yr old angora buck having a "stink" and he has bred with my 8 yr old pygmy goat. maybe it's the breed or maybe i just didn't notice it.  

I guess I'll see if his 2 boys "stink" when they com of age. right now at 9 wks they are just cute fuzzy kids


Farmer Mack


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## zatsenoughcritters4me (May 26, 2009)

FarmerMack said:
			
		

> pattyjean73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


our billy didn't start stinking till he was 5 months old, he doesn't stink all the time really bad, just during mating season!! Our neighbor has a pygmy billy and he stinks too! our samson is a boer goat. maybe the breeds are different!


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## pattyjean73 (May 26, 2009)

Both of my bucklings are boer.  But I won't get to pick Hercules up until June 22.


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## jambunny (Jun 6, 2009)

The difference between dairy and meat goat bucks is that boers can and will breed any time during the year but the dairy goats only have a certain breeding "season".  My boys (dairy) are really friendly but only get extra loving from me when the does are out of season.  Oh and by the way ours love a peanut now and then.  Mainly the salted ones in the shell.


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## pattyjean73 (Jun 7, 2009)

I have made pets of 5 of my goats. The 6th one is slowly coming around I hope.  5 of them (Billy, Pyxis, Star, Galaxy, and Skye) will all come running to me whether I have food or not.  I'll sit on an over turned bucket and they'll vie for my time and lovings.  Comet, she hasn't came that far yet.  She'll eat out of my hand and she'll let me pet her and rub her tummy when she's feeding, but otherwise she could careless about me right now.  She comes near me when all the others do.  She'll stand around and watch me (to see if I am handing out treats I imagine) but otherwise doesn't approach me.  She stays at an arms lengths away. If I reach out to her she'll back up enough to stay out of my reach.  Unless I have food that is.  ha ha ha  I don't force her.  I didn't force any of the others and they all came around.  Maybe she will too.  At least she doesn't run from me anymore.  When she came home she wouldn't even eat out of my hand or eat from the feeder if I was nearby.  So she's made progress.  Just not where I'd like to see her.

Any suggestions on how to speed up this whole taming process with her?  ha ha ha  I'm inpatient, I know.  But I'm holding back and letting her make all the first moves.


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## freemotion (Jun 7, 2009)

pattyjean, can you take the shy one out by itself for some one-on-one time with you, without all the competition?  I have been taking my little doeling out on a leash each day, and I "prune" the edible trees in the yard for her, and she recognizes it as our special time and comes running and calls me constantly now.  Even if she hears my voice all the way from inside the house, she will run to the gate and call to me.

I don't let her eat from the trees, I make her wait for me to pick branches and leaves for her, so it is clear that the special treats come through me.

She just can't compete with the older does for my attention in the group yet.  She'll get bonked, especially if I favor her with treats in the group setting.


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## FarmerMack (Jun 7, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> She just can't compete with the older does for my attention in the group yet.  She'll get bonked, especially if I favor her with treats in the group setting.


Interesting how we notice the one getting (boinked) and that one seems to get extra "treats".  My current is little Orion the runt of the litter, a portly little pygora.


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## pattyjean73 (Jun 7, 2009)

freemotion,

That is a great idea.  In fact, I almost mentioned on my last post that I think the reason she is taking so long to befriend is due to the older bigger doe butting her away all the time.  But I think she's shy by nature too.  I'll give that a try.  Just not sure she's going to let me lead her on a leash yet.  It'll give me something to work with on her though.   Thanks for the idea.


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## freemotion (Jun 7, 2009)

pattyjean73 said:
			
		

> freemotion,
> 
> That is a great idea.  In fact, I almost mentioned on my last post that I think the reason she is taking so long to befriend is due to the older bigger doe butting her away all the time.  But I think she's shy by nature too.  I'll give that a try.  Just not sure she's going to let me lead her on a leash yet.  It'll give me something to work with on her though.   Thanks for the idea.


Start with a collar and leash when she is occupied with food, if possible, to get her used to the feel of it.  Don't let her pull back or away from you.....if she does (and she will) be sure to encircle her with your arms so she can't yank on the leash at this stage and become frightened or even injured.   Repeat this lesson at least once a day, just a few minutes, like 3-5, and always end on a good note.

When that goes well, start with a gentle tug sideways, getting her to step towards you, in each direction.  A short tug and release, never a steady pull.  Don't give her something to pull against, just pull her softly off-balance so she has to step towards you, then praise and reward.  Repeat this lesson a few times, at least once a day, maybe 5 minutes or so each lesson.

When that is going well, you can start walking and stopping.  Use your arm to guide her forward and use a command word such as "walk!" said brightly and in an upward tone.  I always use an upward tone for increased movement commands (upward transitions, in horse vernacular) and a downward tone for slowing down or stopping commands (downward transitions.)  This speeds up the understanding, as animals grasp body language first, tone second, actual words third, if at all.  

Just a few steps and a couple of stops at first.   By now you might be able to have her roam the yard on the leash, with her choosing where to go mostly at first.  As long as she is not fighting the leash and panicking at all.  Spend the first few minutes on lessons, then some free roaming (on leash) and then end with a couple of commands.  I also use a tastey treat for the initial lessons....a goat will follow a fresh branch from an apple tree!

Before you know it, she will be ready to enter the local dog obedience trials!!! 

eta:  When you use the leash to ask her to step forward, use gentle tug and release, like a pulse, sort of, and release the annoying tugging the MOMENT she steps forward.  Reward even one foot placed forward at first.  Same with stopping, use a tug and release, not a steady pull.  A steady pull invites a fight, and who wants to lead any animal, goat, dog, horse, who constantly pulls on your poor shoulders?

In the beginning, use your arm to guide her forward, as she will want to pull back at the tug on the leash.  She has to be conditioned with many repetitions that the way to get rid of the tug is to step TOWARDS it.  This is the most important lesson she will learn about the leash.

Have fun!


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## pattyjean73 (Jun 8, 2009)

Very much like leash breaking a dog.  I can handle that!  Thanks.


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