# Getting a stubborn calf to drink



## username taken (Jun 15, 2009)

I wondered if I could get the opinion of some dairy calf rearers. 

I have 2 kids that have been pulled for bottle feeding; they are 2 wks old and were previously on their dams. 

I am almost at 48 hrs with them and for the life of me cannot get them to take the bottle. 

I have tried different teats. Different temperatures. Heck I even tied up my dairy doe to try and get them to nuzzle and try to suck her, figuring I could slip the bottle into their mouth. No luck

I've tried a bowl too. 

I've tried feeding them often, and I've also tried leaving them to get hungry (almost 10 hours). 

Nothing. 

They will suck on the piece of bale twine that closes the gate to their pen, but not the bottle. 

My question is which way do I procede:

a) I can get about 1/4 of what they should have daily, into them by squeezing the milk into their mouth and they swallow it. Its enough to keep them alive but I need them to grow. If I continue doing it this way, will they eventually accept?

b) Do I tube the right amount into them? Is this counterproductive because it is not teaching them to suck? They are not weak nor are they dehydrated.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 15, 2009)

A calf that has nursed that long would be just as stubborn to take to the bottle too. 

a) They should eventually take the bottle this way. It's just strange to them.

b) It's not counterproductive to tube, if it's needed. Sometimes calves will be born not sucking and this is how one keeps them alive until they suck. If you're worried about them getting enough I would tube them once and then go back to a. 

How often does one feed a kid? With calves 10 hours isn't that long to let them go hungry. While some feed three times a day, most feed only twice a day. Skipping a feeding isn't going to hurt as long as they are not dehydrated or weak.

Hopefully,  , they will soon accept the bottle for you.


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## username taken (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks kitty. In that case I will keep up with the small feeds, just persisting. 

I'm feeding all the other bottle babies (lambs and kids) three times a day. 

They are not weak or dehydrated, still bouncing around strong, so I dont think the tube is needed yet. 

Thank you for the expert advice.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 15, 2009)

You are welcome for the advice.


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## username taken (Jun 15, 2009)

Kitty, how long would you expect to have to battle with a calf in this situation?

It has now been 48 hrs

And what is strange is that they suck even less now than when I first got them. 

The first feeding they sucked maybe 10 - 20 sucks in a row. 

Now one wont suck at all, the other had 6 sucks. 

I just put about 100ml into each of them, by shoving the teat in their mouth, squeezing the milk into the mouth, and they would swallow it grudgingly. 

It just seems so hopeless


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 15, 2009)

It's hard to say as each calf is different and the same would apply to kids. I, too, don't like the idea that they are going backwards instead of forward.

Are they from one of your nannies? If so, why did you pull them to hand feed? 

Have you tried asking over in goats? Maybe someone has a different trick that works with goats.


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## username taken (Jun 15, 2009)

Well, I just mixed up a different brand of milk replacer, put it in a bowl and they each drank 100mls quite happily

Hopefully they will keep it up. 

Normally I hate bucket/pan feeding but I suppose if thats all they want to do ... 

Now the question is ... I am raising these in a group of four for a particular carcass competition, do I keep two on bottles, two on buckets? Do I transition the two on bottles onto buckets? Or do I transition the two on buckets eventually on bottles? I know you can change from bottle to bucket but can the reverse be achieved? I normally much prefer bottles and boy I'd love for these guys to take the bottles but I'm thinking they might never accept the rubber teat, maybe if I'm lucky they might take to the pan. 

It might be interesting actually, to see if there is any difference in growth between bottle and pan ... hmmm ...


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 15, 2009)

Glad you solved that problem. 

As for the bottle/bucket debate, you're talking to a person that puts calves on pail at their 3rd or 4th feeding. If you want to bottle feed, that's up to you and the kids(if they except it or not). I can spoil them without the bottle so they go on pails. It's also easier to up their water in their milk replacer on pail. A new born large breed calf is already getting a bottle full a feeding.


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## username taken (Jun 15, 2009)

I guess its a start. They need to be drinking about 400ml in each feeding, instead of 100ml, but hopefully they will improve. 

Oh yeah, bucket feeding is a whole lot easier for calves.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 15, 2009)

But, remember they are adjusting to being off mom. They may not thrive on the 100 but if it keeps them going just fine for a few days while they adjust.......


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## jojo@rolling acres farm (Jun 15, 2009)

Hi UT, 
Have you tried the screw on Pritchard nipple? They are the best I've ever used...the size is right, the shape is the most like a doe. You can make a larger hole in the tip as needed. I cut the tip at an angle.  They are soft and pliable. 

If they are not available there...I would be happy to send you a pair to try them...I'll even send a couple of bottles they would fit on -  just in case the size is different in AUS. Let me know...it's hard once they've nursed their mom. I've worked with kids just like yours and I've done it...but, honestly it takes about 4-5 days before they get into the routine of it all and figure it out. I am pretty relentless...and stay on the schedule whatever I set it to be. If they drink a little great - if not, I go back in whatever the predetermined time should/would be. Give them the opportunity and go through all the same motions again...sometimes I also give a little formula with a needless syringe -  that  can help the transition too.

 Let me know if you want me to ship these off...sounds like you have them up and going. But, you could have them on hand for future use. Heck, maybe you've used them...just let me know! If it were me...I'd run a test and see how the two on the bottle did vs. the two drinking out of the bucket. Then we can all have another great debate over THAT topic!


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## username taken (Jun 17, 2009)

Hi Jojo, 

thanks, we do have the screw on pritchard teats here  I usually start off young kids on them, and transition to the excal topper. 

I ended up putting these two on a doe last night, as I was able to source a young kid yesterday and place orders for 6 - 10 kids with two other suppliers that should have them born in the next 2 - 3 days. So with those available I figured it wasnt worth my time fiddling with these two. 

I agree, the bottle vs bucket trial would have been interesting. 

I am actually going to run a trial comparing warm restricted milk feeding to cold ad lib milk feeding, that will be interesting.


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## jojo@rolling acres farm (Jun 17, 2009)

Good plan...glad the opportunity came your way. Keep us posted. I'm interested in the results of your warm vs cold milk trial...interesting...


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