# Trying to learn about udders....PICS and ?'s...



## GrowURown (Mar 30, 2011)

Does anyone have any links to sites that explain OR any photos/an explanation itself   OF WHAT A GOOD UDDER IS?  How does one learn how to identify and spot things like "attachment" for example?

See....I read all the talk about "she has really good attachment"  etc...but I don't know what to look for....and now that we have these little goats we are considering giving it a year, seeing how we do with them, and then, in a year, if they are still alive and doing well, getting some actual "dairy goats".  We have the little pygmy one we are milking...not getting a ton of milk...but it's GOOD STUFF! we all LOVE IT and would like to have more....so now the research and learning phase begins....and udders confuse me...goats in general confuse me actually...but udders right now are a source of major confusion....

Take our little Bambi for example....is this a good one or a bad one?  (Not the goat, we know she's spoiled rotten, but her udder)  I know extra teats are a bad thing...got that part...but how is this sucker attached? Right now the goats outside are all we have to go on, so I figured she was a good place to start....someone learn me about udders! please?


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 31, 2011)

Can you get a picture from the rear that includes the entire udder?  Also, has she freshened yet?


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## 4hmama (Mar 31, 2011)

Kinda hard to tell from the pics...I would suggest that you get a better picture...one that is straight on (if the goat cooperates!), and shows everything from tail to hocks...that way you get all of the udder - from where it attaches to the end of the teats.  

I'm still learning myself...but there are those out there that are great about helping!


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## GrowURown (Apr 15, 2011)

OKay - so I finally got some pics of the udders we are currently working with... First up is Scarlett...yes she has a funky teat, we can only assume that is true to what we were told - she had a single buckling LAST time, and no one ever bothered to milk the unused side (what we were told - I dunno - I'm no expert)  But otherwise...how does this one look?









I have to admit - the funky large teat is the easiest one for my big man hands to milk!  I almost appreciate the easy with which I can actually get a grip on the darn thing!

Next up is Mammy ( I know, say what you want to, but EVERY thing with these goats has a "gone with the wind" name - thank the wife for that one! The buck is Rhett, the kids are Ashley, Melanie, Brent and Stuart and we have one other doeling Prissy and a second Buck Wade and YES she made me watch the movie that day!) Anyways...I think hers hangs a little funny in the back, and lets not mention the words "kickky" and "milker" in front of her - she's the queen! (Got something coming from Hoeggers to fix that though...) anways again...hows this one looking?













Just wondering what everyone's input was on the little belly draggers....currently it's what works for us  We aint complain' just curious...

*note the green bucket...that's my $2 to fix to "laying down on the job"  they BARELY clear the thing, but it keeps 'em on their toes...LITERALLY!*


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## ksalvagno (Apr 15, 2011)

I'm learning by physically seeing a lot of udders. I have found a mentor who knows udders well and is teaching me. I think that is probably the best way. Another way would be to attend shows and see what is winning in the ring and then see if you can get a close look at the winners.


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## GrowURown (Apr 15, 2011)

Do they look okay though? I just don't want 'em falling off or anything...one looks ready to pop about 5 minutes after we milk her...the black one...We are going to start doing more "goat stuff" once things slow down around here some ...just wondering if these are decent to start with?


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## helmstead (Apr 15, 2011)

Is Scarlett's udder full there?  Yep, she's got a blown teat - might get worse through the years, but we have an 8 year old Nubian with a blown teat and it doesn't affect production.

Mammy has a very nice fore udder (could be a little flatter if you are picky) and medial.  Her rear udder attachment is low...but the side view leads me to believe she has a nicely attached udder otherwise.


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## Roll farms (Apr 16, 2011)

I love your wife.  GWTW is my all time *fav* movie.

Where's Aunt Pittypat??

Years ago we had a herd of registered llamas and they all had GWTW names...
I've had a dog named Scarlett, a goat named Scarlett....

Judging udders is a bit difficult when you aren't sure how far along they are in lactation and when they're still wearing their winter 'fur'.  But I agree w/ what Kate said.  Mammy's looks really good from the side.

Somewhere around here there's a thread called ...ah, here I found it...

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7857&p=1

Lots of udder pics and discussion about what we like about them.

I learned a lot by reading Dairy Goat Journal's judging section when I was trying to figure this stuff out.


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## GrowURown (Apr 16, 2011)

Thanks!  I actually kinda started milking...then stopped and grabbed the camera when I took Mammys pics - so she's like ...idk...half empty there? Maybe less....

Fully milked out one side on Scarlett, the other kinda started and said DUH...grabbed the camera again....

yeah, I'm SO NOT a professional photographer, nor am I a pro milker...but hey, it sounds like they got decent udders, and that's what I was hoping for - nothing championship, but good enough to milk for us is fine...long as they don't fall off, we will be okay!

And thanks for the link!  I shall be working on my studying...If only Bambi would kid and then I could post her official udder pics! (she shall be the queen of the IBTC being a pygmy and all...but hey, what can I do?)


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## Ariel301 (Apr 16, 2011)

I've never heard of a case where an udder fell off the goat because it wasn't attached good.  

Your does don't have "show ring" udders, but they look like decent functional girls. I like the udder on the black goat better than the other. The rear attachment does look low and the escutcheon (the arch of the legs where the udder sits) is narrow, low, and comes to a point--if you were breeding for "ideal" udders you'd want it wide, high and arched. 

Like this: 





The top of the escutcheon arch is very high up and wide and the udder is tightly attached.

Not like this:




The escutcheon is narrow and comes to a point, it is also really low and there's pretty much NO rear attachment on this doe, her udder is really saggy.

But that said, there are certainly "ugly" udders which milk fantasically and nice showring udders that don't produce well at all.


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## GrowURown (Apr 16, 2011)

It's not just Scarlett pinching her legs together whistling to the tune of "NO milk for you my friend'...?   Okay....good to know...didn't know what a eustcheon....whatever, I give up on spelling THAT....was...and HOW does one pronounce that word? God bless...couldn't we just call that a crotch? Or "udder hanger spot"? That word is impossible!  But all good to know....been wondering what people were talking about...google gives WAY too much for me to follow...I have reading comprehension issues - pics and little blurbs do me best sometimes

See, personally, I find Scarletts udder to be much perkier to my eye - blown teat and all - and all men like perky I guess   I thought Mammy was a little saggy - though that's just me I suppose...

And YES I do worry about them falling off!  The belly of these goats is just a bucket away from the ground at all times!  How can I not worry?  One speed bump in the road and it's over baby!


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## Roll farms (Apr 16, 2011)

Say it w/ me.

es - cutch - un


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## GrowURown (Apr 16, 2011)

lol...es like the letter S...cutch...like crutch with out the R...un...like UNbelievably hard to say!   ES-CUTCH-UN!  I CAN do it!  Or in my book....the rear udder hanger!   words regarding goats should just be easy since taking care of them is so hard!  That's my vote anyways....


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## GrowURown (May 12, 2011)

okay...so I finally got coordinated and took some wonderful pictures of my ladies udders...no babies for 12 FULL HOURS...you should have HEARD my YARD this morning!  The kids were MAD!

Anyways...I would like formal, honest responses...let me know what you think and if I am am correct....

First up we have Bambi - TINY..but gives a TON of milk I think...got nearly a whole quart this morning after these were taken.  I think for the back and the front she looks pretty good all around...not perfect...but good...opinions please?













Then we have Mammy...still using hobbles and a bucket to keep her in one place...but she IS getting better.  I think the way it sticks out in the rear just below the escutcheon "area" is odd...see how her udder kinda pokes out right below her girl parts?  Maybe I just like 'em perky and round...someone tell me what you think....she by FAR has the prettiest teats and is easiest to milk IF she stands still....torn between her and Bambi as my best 2:













Then there is Scarlett - or as I call her Queen Wompy Teat!  She came that way...know knew why...could been anything...wompy teat aside, she's not really my favorite, even on her good side...she's kinda pinched together back in what I THINK is the ecutcheon spot...and her udder doesn't come NEARLY as far up as the other 2...and her good teat is not all that great compared to Mammy.  Granted, the wompy teat is the easiest to milk as I can actually get a grip on it...but yeah...not my favorite...just not anything special their...what do ya'll think:













Okay...I am learning and only have my own to really go on.  and NO I didn't shave them...I am NOT offering up MY trimmers to teat shaving...wife has to go get trimmers or no teats shall be shaven around here!  I have to draw the line somewhere...there it is...right before "shaving teats with the trimmers I use on my moustache"   I allowed "shaving of the goats head prior to disbudding"  but I stop at teats...so please work with me and my hairy teats...tell me what you think...

I've been SUPER BUSY - I got a job I REALLY LIKE now...but the hours have been a change, so I don't have much time to lurk or hang out...just bug people behind the scenes...

if I had to place them in a contest of the three...I would give my votes as follows:

Mammy wins...Bambis a close second only due to her exceptionally tiny teats...and Scarlett is DEAD LAST...

But I am asking publicly...laugh at me or with me or just tell me how ya feel....what do you think about my teats?

I just wanta see if I have this right....


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## aggieterpkatie (May 12, 2011)

I think I would agree with you. Mammy has a very nice udder, IMO.  Bambi's is nice too, but her teat placement isn't quite as nice as Mammy's.


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## GrowURown (May 12, 2011)

Does teat placement get better with time/future kiddings ever?  or is it always the same?  just wondering...I THINK that is what i have heard/read...but I dunno...I ask because this is Bambi's first time...she's a FF...lol...double FF...teats...it's like saying sperm whale in front of kids...I HAVE TO LAUGH when I say it!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 12, 2011)

Bambi could use a higher rear udder and better teat placement, but her fore udder made me do a double take.  Talk about extension!  She has a BEAUTIFUL fore.


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## chandasue (May 12, 2011)

GrowURown said:
			
		

> Does teat placement get better with time/future kiddings ever?  or is it always the same?  just wondering...I THINK that is what i have heard/read...but I dunno...I ask because this is Bambi's first time...she's a FF...lol...double FF...teats...it's like saying sperm whale in front of kids...I HAVE TO LAUGH when I say it!


I'm no expert on show udders since I don't show but I read a lot, some say too much... ANYway, since she's FF she might really surprise you next time. Her teats will likely get longer and easier to milk although the rear attachment won't change from my understanding. My Nestle keeps improving with each freshening. Her FF was a pathetic lactation-short and unwilling to be milked, second was a huge improvement and I'm looking forward to what she does after her 3rd come July. Her rear attachment is similar to Bambi's and that has never improved, but her teats are much easier to milk and are already looking longer and than last year as she's starting to build her udder.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 12, 2011)

I don't see a problem with Bambi's area of attachment from what I can see, she just lacks height.  It would be a little easier to see (if you were interested) if you gave them a dairy clip.


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## GrowURown (May 12, 2011)

LOL...dairy clip...I'm doing good to get them to stand still for milking!  We may try tho...I might be convinced....now all I wanta know is this:

I have figured out WHAT/WHERE to look when people say ESCUTCHEON....but by the term "LACKS HEIGHT"...could you describe it?  I THINK I see a difference...but I wanta be sure...a definition for the lay person if you would...PLEASE   AND THANK YOU!


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## freemotion (May 12, 2011)

I just caught up with this thread and 


			
				GrowURown said:
			
		

> so please work with me and my hairy teats...But I am asking publicly...laugh at me or with me or just tell me how ya feel....what do you think about my teats?


Seriously, do you mind if I post pics of my gals' udders?  Don't want to hijack....I don't clip udders or bellies other than the back of the udder for post-kidding hygiene, so you won't feel so alone.  I still have a brushy area in my pasture and I figure those hairs will warn the doe before a stick rips into her precious udder.


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## GrowURown (May 12, 2011)

I think I shall change to name of this to HAIRY UDDERS WANTED!!!  

Go ahead and post, especially if you have HAIRY TEATS AND UDDERS!  

Really tho...being sincere..it's okay...this is about sharing afterall...now...


SHOW ME THEM TEATS!

(yes, I HAD to say it...just had to...even said it out loud and made the kids look at me like the nut I am...)


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## freemotion (May 12, 2011)

OK, I'll see if I can get pics tomorrow, if not, then over the weekend.  Goat porn!


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## Snowhunter (May 12, 2011)

Oh! Grow, you are killin me and DH!!   

Great thread! Helpin me learn a lot!!


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## Roll farms (May 12, 2011)

I shave our goats purely to keep hair out of the milk and for easy post-kidding clean up.  
Dairy does tend to not be quite as hairy-uddered as boers.  There's no way to not get about a handful of hair every time I milk one of those wooly critters.  
And the Toggs?  I couldn't FIND their udders if I didn't shave them.  The udders aren't so hairy, but the darn goats are.  You'd have to part a curtain of hair to get to the udder to milk.

I know my strainer and filters get the hair out...but still.  

(I'm one of those people that gets freaked out by hairy food, OKAY?  )


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## freemotion (May 12, 2011)

I call it "fiber art" here.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 13, 2011)

GrowURown said:
			
		

> LOL...dairy clip...I'm doing good to get them to stand still for milking!  We may try tho...I might be convinced....now all I wanta know is this:
> 
> I have figured out WHAT/WHERE to look when people say ESCUTCHEON....but by the term "LACKS HEIGHT"...could you describe it?  I THINK I see a difference...but I wanta be sure...a definition for the lay person if you would...PLEASE   AND THANK YOU!


In the side view, look at the distance between Bambi's pin bones and the top her her rear udder.  She actually has a shapely rear udder, IMO, but it "ought" to be tucked higher up into the escutcheon.  The distance between her pin bones (or her vulva in the rear shot) and the top of her udder should be shorter.  But I really do love her fore!  Very, very nice in that area.

And her teats look pretty plumb from the side, which should make her easier to milk even if they're placed too far to the outside when viewed from the rear.


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## helmstead (May 13, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> And her teats look pretty plumb from the side, which should make her easier to milk even if they're placed too far to the outside when viewed from the rear.


I betcha that teat placement gets better on a 2nd freshening, because a weak medial TENDS to pick up in the 2nd freshening, and if you picture her medial tighter - the teats would be in the right place...


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## SDGsoap&dairy (May 13, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> n.smithurmond said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If her medial tightens I'll bet you're right.  They're just a bit wingy and that would bring them closer to plumb for sure.


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## GrowURown (May 13, 2011)

Thank you!

So...teats might move a little in the future...with future kiddings...POTENTIALLY, NO PROMISES...I get it...

And basically...what you are saying is....in regards to the lacks height question...there's a smooth drop of not much and than BAM! Udder starts...a little lower than would be preferred in relation to the rest of the back end of the goat...

But in the front things are amazing huh?  Good to know...

For such a tiny goat, she really is pretty cool and makes almost as much milk as the bigger girls...I don't have favorites at all do I?  No...not at all...


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## freemotion (May 15, 2011)

Forgot to take udder pics today again, but here is a hairy one in this short video of me taking my milking machine out for a spin:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh5M1lwbn0U

You can't see the udder, really, but you can see the hair!!!


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## oakmarsh nigerians (May 18, 2011)

Can I ask also about "correcting" udders? The ADGA has a buck list of "proven" strengthening bucks and the characteristics. Most I saw didn't address udder issues, though..I think..

If you are attempting to improve, how do you decide on the line for that improvement?

No hijack intended here, either!

Can you tell, I'm going to have to wait a year+ to see if my "experiment" worked?







Here's my slightly hairy udder shot! The top isn't visible here, but this is the only photo so far of my doe full. I can't believe more experienced folks never took a photo of that basketball from good angles! Are ultra huge udders frowned upon in the show ring?


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## Hykue (Jun 2, 2011)

So I know, a kind of old post, but I wanted to add my hairy udder pics.    This definitely seemed the right arena for these particular pictures.

I would really like feedback (from what you can tell) on my girl's udder.  My other doe . . . well, she hasn't eaten grain in three weeks and I haven't separated her kids yet.  We'll see if I can, and then I'll post pictures of her udder too.

This is Dash, my first freshener.  She's two, but wasn't bred her first year.  I was a little worried she wouldn't be able to produce too much because her rumen seems a little underdeveloped (from outside appearance and overall body shape).  I think she's actually doing pretty good.  I'm not milking her out, not even close (because I'm slow and inexperienced), and I'm getting about a quart in the mornings.  Also, her kids gained 16 and 17 pounds in their first month!

This is her udder at about 3 weeks fresh.  These were actually taken on two different days, but she had been apart from her kids for about 10 or 11 hours.











I was thinking her medial looks okay, pretty good width in the escutcheon, shame about her teat placement, certainly looks like she has acceptable capacity, and her foreudder is a bit lacking (although it's a bit hard to tell in the picture, you can kind of see the dark background through the hair where the udder stops).  But I'm basing this off of only pictures on the internet . . . no real-life experience at all here.

Comments?  (Other than, "Hooboy, that's a hairy udder", of course.    Well, you can say that too, if you'd like.)


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