# How many goats per acre?



## samssimonsays (Dec 8, 2015)

The range on answers for this question is unreal and I am finding it difficult to determine what would be acceptable. 

Here are my specifics, I live in Northern Minnesota on 5.78 acres of land with mostly yard, lots of pine trees on one side and brush on the other. We have 3 goats that will be 1 year old come Feb, March and April. We hope to add one more goat (a Nubian doe) maybe 2,this spring/summer and my three are 2 alpines and 1 SNubian, so they are not exactly small goats. We have a small pen for them attached to the side of the barn that has a small 3.5 sided shelter that they all fit in curled up just fine and the pen is small. BUT they get to come out and browse all summer long on anything they want on our property then go in the fence when it is bed time or we leave. So the forage is there for them. We will be expanding our pen to around 2/3 of an acre to an acre this spring before adding in another goat  but are also looking at adding in an LGD or two to the mix as well. Would that be enough space for 4 goats, an LGD and goat kids until they go to their new homes or do we need to go bigger? We have optimal browse for the goats on our property so I am not so concerned with that as I am them being too crowded in a pen and it causing stress and agitation.... Eventually we will have several pens throughout the property that we will rotate them between keeping our original little pen the  area they can be penned during vaccinations, when kids are still small and for weaning. The rotation pens are a few years out though.


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## Latestarter (Dec 8, 2015)

OK, so based on my studies/personal opinion/limited experience...

If each (large adult) goat needs ~10 square feet where standing/laying (5' long x 2' wide) and you have 6 goats, then they would need 60 square feet standing (6 x 10') x 2 for breathing room or 120 square feet (which would work out to 5' x 4' each) under cover for night time sleeping/wetness evasion. So 6 goats should do well (more than adequate) in a 10x12 goat hut/shed/barn for routine use.

Now for kidding, you'd need a couple of designated larger enclosed areas within, where potential moms can be "contained" while they have their kids. Most here have stated that 5' x 5' is adequate for this but concur that a larger space is better so you can fit inside to help mom if needed... or 6' x 6' (I'd be generous and go 8' x 8' or even more, but then I'm a large person myself). So if you increase your hut/shed to 16' x 12' that extra 6' added on could be split in 1/2 to form 2 - 6' x 6' birthing stalls.

As for the "yard" space, for 6 goats to roam around in (dry lot) when they aren't out eating on your acreage, figure a 20' x 20' area each is more than adequate or 400 square feet per goat. So, take that times 6 goats and you have 2400 square feet... or a pen say 80' x 30' or 60' x 40'... Since an acre is ~40,000 square feet (43,560 actually) or 200' x 200' (208' 9" square actually) you would only need to enclose ~1/8 of an acre for their dry lot. So if you enclosed 1/2 an acre for their dry lot, you'd be giving them 4 times the area they'd really need. You could keep the LGD(s) in there with them (especially at night) which would keep the LGD's from potentially running off to chase down a threat. And the LGDs could be let out to the larger pasture area with the goats during the day.

Obviously a/some/most/any LGD considers everything they see as their domain, worthy of patrol and protection, and some wander much further than others, so a dog requiring control over a large area might not work well enclosed in 1/2 acre for long periods. So, as long as you have a much larger area of your property fenced, considered pasture, where the goats and dogs could roam on a routine basis, I expect things would be just fine.

Me personally... I would section off maybe 1/2 - 1 acre right around the house as personal space for me/family/visitors and house animals/pets, and the rest would be fenced for pasture with smaller internal areas separated out for barns/huts/sheds/coops.


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## samssimonsays (Dec 9, 2015)

Thank you @Latestarter ! That is a lot of help! since we will most likely only have 4 goats going into winter of 2016 (if hubby won't budge on adding a 4th and 5th ) but then we would also be planning on kidding in June of 2017 with at least our 2 does now and hopefully one other doe IF I can find a 2 year old or a nanny next year.  But hoping to add an LGD or 2 sometime before kidding for the first time.


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## samssimonsays (Dec 9, 2015)

Also, would a team work better being related or unrealted? If two sisters are going to have issues, which I don't see why they would, I would rather go with unrelated females. I ask this because every breed is so different and in Jack Russel's for sure it is common for litter mate brothers to hit an age and they will no longer live together peacefully.


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## Latestarter (Dec 9, 2015)

@Southern by choice is the expert on LGDs. I tagged her so hopefully she can address this. She has previously stated that litter mates as teams are not her first choice. She has also stated that 2 intact females as a team rarely works out well. She has said she prefers male/female team pairings. She is not in favor of LGDs that are bred between LGD and non-LGD breeds. For your specifics, I would chat with Southern...


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## samssimonsays (Dec 9, 2015)

Thank you! I am not either, however, these guys are from some amazing parents and I have trained worse much later in life to be trusted with my rabbits so hopefully we could have it as an option. If not then I will have to be ok with that too. But that is good to know about male vs female.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 9, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> @Southern by choice is the expert on LGDs. I tagged her so hopefully she can address this. She has previously stated that litter mates as teams are not her first choice. She has also stated that 2 intact females as a team rarely works out well. She has said she prefers male/female team pairings. She is not in favor of LGDs that are bred between LGD and non-LGD breeds. For your specifics, I would chat with Southern...



As a general rule I do not like litter mates together - are there exceptions? Yes. We have matched teams together, and I have a team leaving for their new home/farm shortly. They are well matched but they will have their moments.
Mostly I don't like it because too many "breeders"  cannot evaluate pups and the poor unsuspecting person ends up with 2 patrollers as pups- can I just say IT NEVER ENDS WELL! Yet both dogs could very well end up being awesome, most people just cannot make it through 2 pups that are patrollers. They take a lot longer to mature and are more difficult- in the end they are worth their weight in gold but they are tough, stubborn, hardheaded, bad, bad ,bad , and did I say bad?  2 together feed off all the "bad" things in each other.

LGD/non LGD  are not LGD's. PERIOD! I know you and I already discussed that though. 

The training of other breeds is irrelevant when it comes to training LGD breeds. It is not the same. 
To even evaluate the litter would be silly because the different breeds are evaluated in a completely different manner ... and in some areas what you would want from one breed is exactly opposite of what you would be looking for in the other.

Take into account the sires timidity issues. I know this was an accident so I am not guilting you or trying to make you feel awful about it in anyway- Crap happens- you learn from stuff and you move on- but if you were to go back and rewind the clock so to speak... the sires temperament alone would disqualify him from ever being used as a breeder, let alone his diverse lineage.
Now- your boy is a big baby love and perfect for what YOU need him for- a pet... a big ole goofy lovable pet!  For a true guardian you need confidence, boldness, fearlessness, quick thinking, quick acting, natural instinct for livestock and a dog that is NOT dependent on you.

In the end they are your puppies and they are stinking cute as can be... if you want to keep some then do it. Just be mindful that they may not do the job that you hope they do in the end.

LOL I have my Anatolians howling outside right now... it is soo funny!  Are they trying to call in wolves from a bajillion miles away? Silly dogs.


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## samssimonsays (Dec 10, 2015)

After discussing it with my husband we will not be keeping any pups for any reason. And he feels we will not ever need an LGD sigh. Even though he has now fully agreed we need more goats. PLURAL   Y'all were right! Goats ARE addictive!


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## Latestarter (Dec 10, 2015)

You have a couple of dogs now, and only 3 goats which are kept up by your home and enclosed at night, so really, you probably don't NEED an LGD right now ... Though if you ask me, dogs are just as addicting as goats... And I do have a supposed to be LGD and no livestock for him to G... (soon though!) Once you start, it's hard to NOT become an animal hoarder...

Perhaps after a few years, when you have a (couple) dozen goats roaming freely on your acreage, and they start disappearing overnight (hate to say or even imply that), things will change...

Glad you'll be getting more goats though! Super exciting that aye? You'll turn your old man into a farmer yet! Just keep working on it.


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