# Best internment for LGD puppy?



## TXFarmGirl (Dec 20, 2019)

We got a wonderful LGD puppy, she is about 4 months old now, and we have her in a huge chainlink pen(that used to be our garden) with the chickens surrounding her pen in their chainlink pen...so she is in a pen, and the chickens are in a surrounding pen. She does great, and we let her out with them at least daily when we are raking the barn and such, she does great with them, does perimeter checks, counts them, etc...but when she is locked in her pen (when she can’t be supervised), she gets really bored. We have balls, and rope toys for her out there, and we’ve tied a toy to a rope on the fence, so she can pull and tug. But she is still bored we think, what activities, toys, or interaction, do y’all recommend for LGD puppies?


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## TXFarmGirl (Dec 20, 2019)

She is a Great Pyrenees, Anatolian Shepherd cross.


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## B&B Happy goats (Dec 20, 2019)

Take her out and work with her when you are doing projects, cleaning the barn, walking fence lines, sit and talk to her..is she part of your family, can she come inside for a hour each night of family time ?


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## B&B Happy goats (Dec 20, 2019)

She can't  learn what she isn't  taught, boredom in a enclosed area is a recipe for a unproductive LG.D... teach her to be friends with your animals, that they are hers to protect...it is a process, but the rewards are priceless


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## Beekissed (Dec 21, 2019)

A bored pup surrounded by chickens he can't reach....right now he's forming habits about those chickens that he isn't getting consistent corrections for and that's a bad recipe for disaster.   Imagine a puppy surrounded by squeaky toys that constantly move, squawk and flap....but he can't reach.   He's likely pouncing, lunging and otherwise threatening the chickens when he feels like it and that's a huge no-no if you ever want him to understand his role with the chickens.  

Wherever you intend for him to be working, that's where he should be....then you do intensive training each day in that area with whatever he is supposed to be guarding(chickens?) on a long lead or off leash but near enough to correct.   But, before you do that, I'd do some basic obedience of "leave it", "down", etc. so you CAN do corrections he'll listen to.  

Giving him toys won't mean much to him when live ones are strutting on the other side of the fence.  He needs a job to do and he needs it now.  He also needs to understand what that job is and he's not too young to understand that....I start pups at 2 mo. old when they arrive and they aren't penned or confined past the first week if the training is going well...if I get them that young, it goes well.   One time I failed to do the necessary training right away and I lost my best duck....supposedly a pup that had been around poultry all his life(7 mo.), but now I seriously doubt that information.   Don't trust another person's tales of having trained the dog already on anything...what they supposedly learn one place may not carry over to your place.


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## Grant (Dec 21, 2019)

I guess my question is why is she penned?  Her job is to be with the animals.  If she has learned that and you are gone, who is guarding the livestock?  It should be the lgd.


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## Baymule (Dec 21, 2019)

Do you have a fence around the chicken pen, like a yard or pasture? If so, take her out of the pen and put her on the outside of the chicken pen. I have a GP, now 10 years old that was a free throw away because she killed chickens. I kept the chickens in the coop and run (both were predator and dog proof) and she had the run of the yard. Because of her previous treatment, she blamed the chickens and hated them for it. It took me two years to turn her around and she made a great chicken guard. 

Putting your pup in a small pen is punishment. As she grows, she will resent it more and more. These dogs really don't go for toys that much. If you need to keep her busy, give her large bones--NOT the "cooked" bones in pet stores and other places. Go to a slaughter facility, most will make up boxes of dog bones and sell them. I have a 7 month old Anatolian puppy now and the pasture is littered with lamb leg bones and hog (sawed in half by the slaughter house) head bones, lower jaw, teeth and all. The hog heads came from hogs we raised and had slaughtered, dogs sure like them. 

You are doing the right thing in taking your puppy out and working with her when y'all are home. if you have a yard or pasture fence, leave her in it and go inside for short periods, look out windows to keep an eye on her. 

No one here is criticizing  you, but trying to help. We post ideas, you take what applies to you and your dog and see what works.  Let us know how she is coming along.


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## Duckfarmerpa1 (Dec 22, 2019)

Can I ask a dumb question...what does LGP stand for?  I’m thinking something to do with guarding chickens?


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## B&B Happy goats (Dec 22, 2019)

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Can I ask a dumb question...what does LGP stand for?  I’m thinking something to do with guarding chickens?


Livestock guardian dog.....not particularly  for guarding chickens, but sheep, goats and other animals that large predators  will see as dinner.....excellent farm partners


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## Baymule (Dec 22, 2019)

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Can I ask a dumb question...what does LGP stand for?  I’m thinking something to do with guarding chickens?


There is no dumb question.


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## Duckfarmerpa1 (Dec 22, 2019)

Baymule said:


> There is no dumb question.


 thanks...so...does it need to be a herding dog...we like our lazy bulldogs because they’re not crazy, high ener...but our French did scare off a bear that was in our garbage truck this fall....


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## Bruce (Dec 22, 2019)

NO! LGDs are the OPPOSITE of herding dogs. LGD's watch the flock and ward off predators. The only reason they would herd the flock/herd is to move them away from danger. They work on their own, not at the command of a human. If the human had to be in the vicinity of the LGD for it to do its job, there would be no purpose for the LGD.

A herding dog's job is to move the flock/herd where the human wants them to go. They work when the human tells them to and do what the human tells them to do. As far as a LGD is concerned, herding dogs ARE predators because they chase the animals. LGDs and herding dogs aren't in with the herd/flock at the same time.


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## B&B Happy goats (Dec 22, 2019)

Excellent job @Bruce


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## Duckfarmerpa1 (Dec 22, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Excellent job @Bruce


Ok, so what breeds are good for these protectors?  We have coyotes. We’ve seen them during the day, but have not had a loss to them...only to a snapping turtle.


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## B&B Happy goats (Dec 22, 2019)

Anatolian,  pyrenees,  there is a section on here about LGD's and different breeds, they do take time and lots of work on your part to become your trusted partner and friend. They come with a great set of instincts that you need to show them how and when to use...
They require strong fencing ,as jumping a 4 foot fence is easy for them, a hot wire on top does get some respect....
they bark ....did I mention they bark ? When they bark they are warning something  or someone to alert.....your job is to go see what they are doing and  aletting too,..... you may not see it, but they do...praise him that he is doing a good job...if you are willing to spend the time and listen to them and build a bond, ....your entire world can change. You have a partner to watch over your property, ...animals, ...you are personally safe and above all else...you will realise that these magnificent  creatures are not dogs....they are a gift to be cherished


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## Bruce (Dec 22, 2019)

Yeah the barking part, which is why those who have been here a while know I was only able to keep Merlin for 3 weeks before DW decided she would NEVER be able to sleep through him working at night. 

There are a lot of LGD breeds, mostly all originally from Europe and western Asia. These have been used for hundreds if not thousands of years and guarding livestock is wired into their brains. You don't need to teach them how to guard like you have to teach a herding dog to herd. They know that part, you need to teach the young ones not to chase animals and basic commands. You have to teach you that these dogs know things that you don't, are aware of things "out there" that you don't see, hear or smell and that might sometimes supercede what you think is most important "now". 

Added to the 2 most common ones in the USA that B&B mentioned is the Maremma, it is on the smaller end of the LGD "spectrum" running 70 to 100 pounds, looks like a small GP.

This page has those plus some others that are less common here


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## Duckfarmerpa1 (Dec 22, 2019)

Bruce said:


> Yeah the barking part, which is why those who have been here a while know I was only able to keep Merlin for 3 weeks before DW decided she would NEVER be able to sleep through him working at night.
> 
> There are a lot of LGD breeds, mostly all originally from Europe and western Asia. These have been used for hundreds if not thousands of years and guarding livestock is wired into their brains. You don't need to teach them how to guard like you have to teach a herding dog to herd. They know that part, you need to teach the young ones not to chase animals and basic commands. You have to teach you that these dogs know things that you don't, are aware of things "out there" that you don't see, hear or smell and that might sometimes supercede what you think is most important "now".
> 
> ...


So, do they live/sleep in the barn?  We have a basement that has a doggie door and our dogs sleep there and they go out when they sense skunk...bears...we wish they wouldn’t because they are no match.  😩


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## Bruce (Dec 22, 2019)

It varies but generally speaking they sleep where the animals are. Some will come into the house for a bit but won't spend the night away from their charges. If you lock the animals in the barn at night, you might need a door for the LGD. Things might not go well if it can't get out to the fenceline to warn off what it hears. You don't want the dog frustrated or ripping at the doors to get out. 

Given you have other dogs, you might need to keep them out of where the animals are if you get an LGD, it will quite possibly consider them a threat to the guarded animals.


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## Baymule (Dec 22, 2019)

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Ok, so what breeds are good for these protectors?  We have coyotes. We’ve seen them during the day, but have not had a loss to them...only to a snapping turtle.


Read. Study. Read the threads in the LGD section. There is lots of information there, start reading and studying.


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## B&B Happy goats (Dec 22, 2019)

Forgot to mention....they don't  just shed...they blow their coats out like clouds of fur


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## Duckfarmerpa1 (Dec 22, 2019)

Bruce said:


> It varies but generally speaking they sleep where the animals are. Some will come into the house for a bit but won't spend the night away from their charges. If you lock the animals in the barn at night, you might need a door for the LGD. Things might not go well if it can't get out to the fenceline to warn off what it hears. You don't want the dog frustrated or ripping at the doors to get out.
> 
> Given you have other dogs, you might need to keep them out of where the animals are if you get an LGD, it will quite possibly consider them a threat to the guarded animals.


Oh..geez...


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## Duckfarmerpa1 (Dec 22, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Forgot to mention....they don't  just shed...they blow their coats out like clouds of fur


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## Baymule (Dec 23, 2019)

They also dig holes. Lots of holes, big holes, deep holes, keep a shovel handy. When I tried to move my psycho female GP Paris up to the sheep barn, she climbed out and went back to her backyard. So I chained her in the pasture. She responded by digging a hole that I could have buried a Volkswagon bug in. I declared her the winner and let her go back to her backyard. Then I put up cow panels linking her backyard to the sheep barn. She is still the winner. LOL


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## TXFarmGirl (Dec 25, 2019)

Got it, thank you all so much! In all of our previous reading and such, alllll we were told is never let the dog be with the animal until you know for sure that they won’t hurt them, keep them separate till the puppy matures is all we heard, but then we would put her locked in the barn with them at night sense it was dark, and she doesn’t touch the big ones, but she doesn’t like the 5 new smaller chickens we got(they are about 7 months old, so they aren’t that small), and our new silkie rooster, she pens them down, suggestions for integrating new chickens would be great too. But starting tomorrow she will be with the chickens with lots of supervision! Thanks again everybody!!


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## Bruce (Dec 26, 2019)

I think chickens are the hardest because they tend to freak and run squawking and flapping. That can get a young dog into a "lets play with the toys" mindset.


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## TXFarmGirl (Dec 29, 2019)

We spend 2 days straight keeping her with all the chickens, and we would recorrect her every time she started _______ (doing whatever she wasn’t supposed to. But as soon as she knows we aren’t watching, or we go inside, she gets a duck of fluffy chicken, or eats more eggs, or chases them, etc. 

Just a minute ago, we were inside, and she was outside with them, and she almost killed a duck. What should we do? She doesn’t do anything bad when we are watching...

We also need suggestions on how to stop her from eating eggs, she eats every egg she can find when we aren’t watching, if we are raking the barn, and she is in there with us, she won’t touch an egg, as soon as we leave to empty the wheel barrow, she eats the eggs. She isn’t hungry, because she has 24 hour access to food. 

Another problem we have with her, is if we are throwing food to the chickens, she will try to kill them, if they get close to the food we are throwing to them. We feed her off to the side, so she is getting some too, but she is still growling at the chickens eating beside her...


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## Beekissed (Dec 29, 2019)

TXFarmGirl said:


> We spend 2 days straight keeping her with all the chickens, and we would recorrect her every time she started _______ (doing whatever she wasn’t supposed to. But as soon as she knows we aren’t watching, or we go inside, she gets a duck of fluffy chicken, or eats more eggs, or chases them, etc.
> 
> Just a minute ago, we were inside, and she was outside with them, and she almost killed a duck. What should we do? She doesn’t do anything bad when we are watching...
> 
> ...



She doesn't respect your authority.   Period.   That's the root of the problem.   You'll need to establish yourself as her pack leader before she will respect you even when you are not there.   A leash is a good place to start, with appropriate walking on that leash~not in front of you....EVER.   Consistent, daily establishing that she goes where you go, stops when you stop, sits when you say sit, lies down when you say, comes to you when you say, etc.   A lot of folks say you can't obedience train these breeds but you can and you need to have some measure of authority over them if you want them to respect you even when you are not there...this is particularly needed when using a LGD around poultry....it's not a type of animal they bond with naturally.  

These breeds, in particular, need a strong owner.   They are smart enough to avoid correction while you are present....most of the time.....but just from reading the description of what she is doing, your corrections are not true corrections to her.   She doesn't connect them to her own actions, she just knows you freak out if she tries something around the chickens in your presence.  So, she waits until you are gone before proceeding.  

For chickens, I do something called "MY chicken" training with each dog I get, be it a pup or an older dog.   For most dogs it never has to be repeated, but the short of it is that the dog needs to learn these are YOUR things, not hers.   That you want her to submit to the chickens, remain calm at all time around the chickens, and to see them as your possessions, not hers.  

As for eggs....ANY dog will eat eggs.   It takes some intensive training to keep a dog from eating available food....you could do a version of "MY chicken" with the eggs, but I've never tried it and don't know if that will work.   It's best if she's not allowed in the coop at all, no matter the reason, even if you are there.    I don't allow my dogs to EVER enter the coop area, even if the door is open and I'm there too.   The chickens should have a safe place and that coop is always their safe place.   They should be able to eat, roost, lay or socialize in their coop without any fears of a predator coming in there and a dog, no matter how good they are with the chickens, is always seen as a predator.  

Feed the chickens in the coop, away from the dog.   Kitchen scraps are fair game for any and all animals, so I don't mind if the dog gets his fair share before the chickens do and he's allowed to guard that food or his own from chickens.   If I don't want him to have the scraps, I feed them in the coop.   Guarding his food is the only time I allow the dogs to growl or lunge at the chickens....if not, they will steal the dogs blind when I feed the dogs.   If they growl or lunge at chickens when there is no food present or if it's clearly chicken feed only(fine grains), they get a strong correction.

Going to take more than a few days of work to get results, though.


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## frustratedearthmother (Dec 29, 2019)

Beekissed said:


> So, she waits until you are gone before proceeding.


Exactly!   At four months old your pup just isn't old enough to be trusted.  Leaving her with the animals at this point is setting her up for failure.   Love all the above training tips above - but your little one isn't old enough or mature enough to retain all that information for very long.  I'll bet you wouldn't leave a toddler child unattended and expect them to remember everything you said "no" to.  Same thing with the dog.  She needs some maturity before she can be expected to act like an adult.  Thankfully dogs mature a lot faster than children, lol!

Your best bet is to remove her from the source of the problem.  Then the only time the pup gets time with the birds is while under your direct supervision. 



Beekissed said:


> Going to take more than a few days of work to get results, though.



Training (ha!) an LGD is a lesson in patience.  Bee is right that taking on an LGD isn't an event - it's a process.


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## TXFarmGirl (Dec 29, 2019)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Exactly!   At four months old your pup just isn't old enough to be trusted.  Leaving her with the animals at this point is setting her up for failure.   Love all the above training tips above - but your little one isn't old enough or mature enough to retain all that information for very long.  I'll bet you wouldn't leave a toddler child unattended and expect them to remember everything you said "no" to.  Same thing with the dog.  She needs some maturity before she can be expected to act like an adult.  Thankfully dogs mature a lot faster than children, lol!
> 
> Your best bet is to remove her from the source of the problem.  Then the only time the pup gets time with the birds is while under your direct supervision.
> 
> ...


That’s what we were doing, letting her be with them while supervised, and not with them while unsupervised, but then we thought everyone was telling us to put the dog and chickens together, and not to have them separate. Starting tomorrow, we will start with all @Beekissed info & advice, and see what happens. Thank you so much @Beekissed for all the time you took to give us that info.


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## TXFarmGirl (Dec 29, 2019)

We had her sleeping in the barn with the chickens, but is that not a good idea? At night should she stay in the separate pen that she stays in when we are gone?


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## frustratedearthmother (Dec 29, 2019)

I wouldn't leave her with free access to the chickens at all at this age.  If the chickens are in an area in the barn where the dog can't have access to them then that would be ok.  Just don't give her the opportunity to make a mistake.  It's much easier to build on a positive than a negative.  You have to set her up for success by not putting her in a position where she can make a mistake right now.


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## Beekissed (Dec 29, 2019)

TXFarmGirl said:


> We had her sleeping in the barn with the chickens, but is that not a good idea? At night should she stay in the separate pen that she stays in when we are gone?



Not until you can trust her and if you mean with the chickens in the same coop and nesting area, I wouldn't ever do that, but in the barn where the flock hang out~ that will eventually have to happen.   I'm a fan of letting the dog make mistakes while I'm there, so I can give an immediate correction, but one will never see those mistakes if they don't let these two groups be together eventually.   I have a different situation than most wherein my flocks free range, so there's truly no separation between dog and chicken unless the chickens go into the coop where the dog can't go.  

Eventually, when she is making all the right moves, responding appropriately to corrections each time, you'll have to just trust her at that point.   That's the hardest part of the training....going in the house and watching from the window to see if she will continue to behave in the correct manner around the chickens.  The slightest infraction out there(looking at the chickens for too long, doing the slow chase...walking slowly and moving them intentionally, or just outright running into the middle of the flock to make them run and scream...always a fun game for a pup) you'll have to yell your correction word from the window....this gives them the idea you are always watching.   They always get a look on their face like, "How does she DO that????" and slink away.   I rarely have to do that twice.


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## babsbag (Dec 30, 2019)

Hopefully this doesn't go against any rules but there is a FB group that I suggest you join. It is a different way of raising them, NOT hands off at all. Their advice is priceless IMO and my next pup will be raised using their methods. People that have raised them this way have nothing but praise and admiration for the methods and the dogs it produces.  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1828786214072789/?ref=group_browse


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## Beekissed (Dec 30, 2019)

Other than the rough language and a few other things I don't agree with, they have some really good advice there, for the most part.


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## babsbag (Dec 30, 2019)

Beekissed said:


> Other than the rough language and a few other things I don't agree with, they have some really good advice there, for the most part.


 Yes, the language is rough for sure, not what I like to see or read. But the admins have good hearts and will go above and beyond helping people so I wear my blinders and look the other way.  The files on the page are full of good info and a lot of time went into writing them and why? Because they want to see these dogs succeed and live up to their abilities and they aren't making a dime.  We keep telling them to write a book.


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## Beekissed (Dec 30, 2019)

babsbag said:


> Yes, the language is rough for sure, not what I like to see or read. But the admins have good hearts and will go above and beyond helping people so I wear my blinders and look the other way.  The files on the page are full of good info and a lot of time went into writing them and why? Because they want to see these dogs succeed and live up to their abilities and they aren't making a dime.  We keep telling them to write a book.



They do have some good advice in their files...unlike any you'll find with typical LGD sites.   I also like it when they call someone out for not reading and/or implementing what they have in the files before asking for further help....I too can't stand it when someone asks for advice, you give it, they refuse to implement it and then comes back asking for more advice on the same issues.   Frustrating.  

Some folks just don't want to put in the wrench time with a LGD, especially when so many sites will tell them that these dogs have been bred for a thousand years for that job and know more than we do what they are supposed to be doing.


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## babsbag (Dec 30, 2019)

My current dogs were not raised following their advice but I did love on them and make friends with them from the moment I got them. They did a little house time too, but not 90 days of it.  My boy liked chickens for way too long...18 months....but my other ones were livestock safe by 8 months. Now do they come when I call, nope. Do they understand leave it...sometimes. Will they load in the car....sometimes. The females do ok with my border collies and cats and being in the house. The male is an unknown even after 7 years. They are ok at the vet and ok with people that they know.   If I do it again I will do it all differently as the older I get the more I wish that they were better trained in basic obedience.


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## TXFarmGirl (Dec 30, 2019)

Thank you everybody for the opinions. I feel like there is half the LGD owners who suggest keeping the pup with the chickens from the beginning, and the other half say, to keep them separate, and not give them the opportunity to hurt the chickens. 

Anyways, we will update everyone in a couple of days.


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## Baymule (Dec 31, 2019)

TXFarmGirl said:


> Thank you everybody for the opinions. I feel like there is half the LGD owners who suggest keeping the pup with the chickens from the beginning, and the other half say, to keep them separate, and not give them the opportunity to hurt the chickens.
> 
> Anyways, we will update everyone in a couple of days.


Two good statements. Which one makes the most common sense to you?


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## babsbag (Dec 31, 2019)

Personally I don't like giving them the opportunity to fail.  That is why the idea of tethering them with the chickens is a compromise.


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## Bruce (Dec 31, 2019)

I wouldn't keep ANY 5 month old puppy in with the chickens without supervision. Might work if you had an adult LGD in there with it to keep it in line and save your birds.


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 31, 2019)

TXFarmGirl said:


> Thank you everybody for the opinions. I feel like there is half the LGD owners who suggest keeping the pup with the chickens from the beginning, and the other half say, to keep them separate, and not give them the opportunity to hurt the chickens.
> 
> Anyways, we will update everyone in a couple of days.



You have to kind of pick your path on what methods you want to used based on your livestock, pup, area, needs and ultimate goal. There are many different thoughts and ways to train and LGD out there.

I think the part earlier in the thread with people telling you to keep the LGD with the birds was ment for when you are there with her not just all the time. Ideally though you dont really want her kept in a cage/kennel for hours a day if it can be helped, all puppies even LGDs get super bored being penned up for hours alone. You may want to re-think penning her up with the chickens outside the pen all the time when you are not home, she may grow to resent them. Maybe try letting her be in the house instead when you're not home if she can be trusted indoors. Don't skip the car training/car rides either or you will be very frustrated later on down the road.


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## Beekissed (Dec 31, 2019)

Keeping a pup with chickens should only occur after the right training has ensued.  I'd not just shove a dog...older or younger...into a coop and run or even free range, with chickens and expect they would know not to harm them.  

Takes making sure the dog knows what you expect, how he is to act around the chickens and other livestock at all times.   That goes for how he is to act around children, people you know, etc.    It all takes instruction first, consistency without frustration and letting them make mistakes when you are there so you can correct them immediately.  

Even if folks tell you they were raised with chickens, sheep, etc., don't trust it....that was THEIR flocks, which doesn't necessarily translate over to YOUR flocks.  

After the right training, you should be able to expect even a 3 mo. old pup to be reliable with the chickens and sheep.  They should also be excellent at recall under normal circumstances and even circumstances of high stress~just takes them a moment to switch gears.   I think leave it and recall are two of the most important things to teach....both lead to correct responses to how to act around livestock.  

If penning and/or tethering, it's also important to give them structured exercise(leash walk or walking at heel) for a bit to burn off energy prior to training on obedience, livestock, etc.  each day.   They have a lot of pent up energy when penned or tethered.   

In the bustle of homesteading, I neglected load up and riding in cars on my last two, as these dogs seldom leave the place....they are needed on duty at all times.   I wish now I had spent a little time on those, so with the new dog I'll be working with load up, wait in the car/truck, down, etc.   He came to me with absolutely NO training at all, even with socialization with humans.   

He had nothing and already 7 mo. old, so not a good thing.   On the other hand, he hadn't really developed many truly bad habits, either, so he's coming along well.    Currently tethered for about a month now, worked with daily on various training and I've seen a HUGE transformation in this pup~he has great recall now...came here with none at all, at heel off leash, leash walking, sit, down, wait(he's a little antsy on that one when it comes to food), leave it, up, collar(stand or sit calmly while collar is attached or detached from tether or leash), lying down while he waits for the command to eat, food removal or eating while children are near the food, "enough" on barking .  

After his incident with the duck(when I trusted what the previous owners had said about his exposure to fowl.....resulting in the death and consuming of my best duck), he got My Chicken training and hasn't shown any further inclination to eat the ducks, even though they currently drink and manage to fly up to bathe in his water pan often.  

Success will often be determined how much you want him to succeed and how much time you spend towards that goal.  It truly doesn't take a lot of time each day but it needs to happen most days, even if the training is just 20-30 min. at a time.   I try to mix training with the exercise time/feeding time/etc. so it's not a big deal.


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## frustratedearthmother (Dec 31, 2019)

We all have different ideas on what we think is right.  You're going to have to learn to read your pup.  If you've already put her with the chickens and it didn't work - then you do something different.

I think you'll figure it out - you've already shown how much you want to get it right.  Hopefully, you and the pup will get on the same wavelength soon!


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## babsbag (Dec 31, 2019)

Even when my dogs were chicken safe I had to introduce new birds. They do know the difference between their chickens and "not their chickens."


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## Ridgetop (Jan 3, 2020)

Bonding an LGD to chickens takes longer than bonding to small stock like sheep and goats.  Chickens flap around and don't really bond with their protector like sheep and goats.  Being told the LGD has been "with" or "around" poultry may mean it was kept in a yard near the chicken coop. 

Even LGDs that are whelped and raised in a barn with access to sheep and goats are not reliably "bonded" not to chase lambs as pups.  Young puppies up to 5 months old are not reliable with newborn lambs since they want to play with them.  Playing between puppies means using teeth in play fights.  Pups "playing" with the smaller lambs results in bloody ears and legs.  You have to place the right age, size, and temperament sheep and goats with the appropriate age and size pup to make sure that they learn not to draw blood or hurt smaller lambs and kids.

Our first Anatolian came fully trained at 18 months.  Our next Anatolian came socialized with goats, but with minimal people training.  We continued his livestock training and while at almost 4 years old he still gets upset with lambing if there is noise or confusion in the barn (wanting to "rescue" newborns from their mothers) he has become much better.  He is not as good with the mothers and newborns as our older bitch or the new Anatolian bitch we got at 10 weeks.  He is however, the property guardian par excellence.  The youngest Anatolian is now 13 months old and an excellent guardian.

She did bloody one particular newborn lamb which was her favorite.  She tried to play with him at 3-4 months old and played like a puppy, resulting in small cuts to his ears and legs.  At first we had confined her to the creep with access to the sheep and lamb pen, but after 2 incidences of playing and drawing blood, we locked her in the creep away from the lambs except when we were present.  This was not satisfactory since when she was allowed in to the sheep pen she was very excited and tried to chase and play again.  She was out in the am and pm playing with the larger dogs and for several hours a day when she was given access with the older dogs to the large field with the other ewes.  After several weeks of keeping her locked away from, but adjacent to, the ewes and young lambs, we put her in the ram pen with 2 older ram lambs and an older ram,  This worked perfectly since she was in a small field with sheep who she could not play with.  in fact when she attempted to play with one of the rams, he knocked her down.  Excellent training by a flock member just like training by her mother or another pack member would have given.

Putting puppies in with larger and older sheep and goats that are willing to discipline puppy behavior, WHILE NOT BEING ABUSIVE TO THE PUPPY, works extremely well since it is self-training, teaching the puppy not to try to play or bite at her bonded flock members, 

Angel, at 13 months, lives in among her sheep, preferring to be with them at all times.  The older 2 dogs are allowed into the house in the evenings for family bonding time while the flock is locked up at night.  They will ask to go out after 1-4 hours but Angel prefers not to come in at all.  In fact being brought into the hose is seen by her as punishment!  She is still a loving dog with her humans, coming up for much loving when we are outside doing chores. She is even friendly (she is still a puppy) with strangers allowed in the yard by ourselves, but really prefers her flock.

Sadly there are few chickens that will be able to help in this area of training.  Maybe tom turkeys or geese?  My dogs feel that wild rabbits and birds are fair game for them, even taking down a wild peacock several years ago.  I would not expect them to guard any poultry without intensive training.  On the other hand, my Pyrs years ago, never went after the poultry which we had which was confined in a pen in the center of the property.  We did not free range our birds much, but when we did (to eat fly maggots in horse manure, etc., the Pyrs left them alone.  Probably because our house dogs had been trained to ignore the poultry, and we also had a large herd of goats and sheep at the time requiring their protection.

Lots of good ideas here for you to try.  Remember that LGDs are less likely to bond with poultry, cattle, and horses since their main purpose for centuries has been to protect sheep and goats.  Different breeds protected traveling herds (Pyrs) while others protected herds when the shepherds took them out each day to graze and brought them in close to habitations at night (Anatolians).  Training an LGD to protect poultry is a difficult and time consuming job. 

Each LGD will have different genetic makeup depending on its parents and ancestors, even littermates will not all be the same level of guarding behavior.  Their selection by breeders for their use may differ.  Thus, while all LGD breeds have livestock guarding background many generations ago, it may or may not have been selected for in recent generations.  The LGD may not be appropriate for what you want guarded, some guard better on a small acreage place, others on hundreds of acres.  Their effectiveness is also determined by your predator load and type, etc.  It all depends on the dog's background and breeding.  *After that*, the training the dog receives is most important.  The widest mount of information you can obtain about your puppy, its immediate parents, grandparents, and what they guard, and the training that they received to make them effective guardians is necessary for you to understand how to train the new puppy.


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## bethh (Feb 2, 2020)

My 


TXFarmGirl said:


> We spend 2 days straight keeping her with all the chickens, and we would recorrect her every time she started _______ (doing whatever she wasn’t supposed to. But as soon as she knows we aren’t watching, or we go inside, she gets a duck of fluffy chicken, or eats more eggs, or chases them, etc.
> 
> Just a minute ago, we were inside, and she was outside with them, and she almost killed a duck. What should we do? She doesn’t do anything bad when we are watching...
> 
> ...


Our dogs will eat the eggs also.   My husband solved that problem by taking a piece of a large dog crate that has openings large enough for the chickens to walk through and we put it up everyday when we let the chickens out.  The chickens can get in and out but the dogs can't.  Our eggs are protected, the dogs can't eat the chicken feed plus the chickens can still get in whenever they want.  I'll try and take a pic tomorrow and post so you can see.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Feb 3, 2020)

TXFarmGirl said:


> We got a wonderful LGD puppy, she is about 4 months old now, and we have her in a huge chainlink pen(that used to be our garden) with the chickens surrounding her pen in their chainlink pen...so she is in a pen, and the chickens are in a surrounding pen. She does great, and we let her out with them at least daily when we are raking the barn and such, she does great with them, does perimeter checks, counts them, etc...but when she is locked in her pen (when she can’t be supervised), she gets really bored. We have balls, and rope toys for her out there, and we’ve tied a toy to a rope on the fence, so she can pull and tug. But she is still bored we think, what activities, toys, or interaction, do y’all recommend for LGD puppies?


Very unusual, they can be very active since they have a lot of play space. maybe your not giving them as much attention that they need? did you try playing with them?


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## Baymule (Feb 3, 2020)

Haha, we have a hen that refuses to go back in the coop. Ever. She sleeps in the sheep's hay bale and made her nest in Sentry's dog house!  Thanks a LOT Joy-Chicken for making Sentry an egg sucking dog! He'll stick his head in his dog house to see if she's done yet. I've even heard him "MIRF" at her, like he's telling her to hurry up before Mom gets the egg! Durn chicken!


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## Beekissed (Feb 3, 2020)

Baymule said:


> Haha, we have a hen that refuses to go back in the coop. Ever. She sleeps in the sheep's hay bale and made her nest in Sentry's dog house!  Thanks a LOT Joy-Chicken for making Sentry an egg sucking dog! He'll stick his head in his dog house to see if she's done yet. I've even heard him "MIRF" at her, like he's telling her to hurry up before Mom gets the egg! Durn chicken!



My chickens were doing that too, Bay....the dogs would listen for the egg cackle and go running like it was the dinner bell...and it was.  I solved that by placing a dog bed over most of the hay, then pavers over the rest.   No where to nest, no where to lay.


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## bethh (Feb 3, 2020)

Baymule said:


> Haha, we have a hen that refuses to go back in the coop. Ever. She sleeps in the sheep's hay bale and made her nest in Sentry's dog house!  Thanks a LOT Joy-Chicken for making Sentry an egg sucking dog! He'll stick his head in his dog house to see if she's done yet. I've even heard him "MIRF" at her, like he's telling her to hurry up before Mom gets the egg! Durn chicken!


Recently I've found an egg 2 different times in the goats feed bucket.  I'm thinking the same chicken has laid in the  goat shed right on the floor in the hay.  I couldn't believe that the girls didn't step on it.  What is she thinking?  lots of space in the coop to lay.


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## Bruce (Feb 3, 2020)

One of my girls decided the best place to lay was in the hay in the alpacas' wall feeder She had to fly up to the top of the gate (only about 3.5') then fly to the feeder 5' away and another 2' up. I ended up putting a board over the feeder and she went back to using the nests in the coop.


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## Baymule (Feb 3, 2020)

Hens are careless with their eggs!


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## YourRabbitGirl (Feb 4, 2020)

Bruce said:


> NO! LGDs are the OPPOSITE of herding dogs. LGD's watch the flock and ward off predators. The only reason they would herd the flock/herd is to move them away from danger. They work on their own, not at the command of a human. If the human had to be in the vicinity of the LGD for it to do its job, there would be no purpose for the LGD.
> 
> A herding dog's job is to move the flock/herd where the human wants them to go. They work when the human tells them to and do what the human tells them to do. As far as a LGD is concerned, herding dogs ARE predators because they chase the animals. LGDs and herding dogs aren't in with the herd/flock at the same time.


Anyone with a good heart, we really need to have a puppy that we can raise to guard our garden and the animals around it. I hope someone can send a pup to raise. Thank you very much..


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## bethh (Feb 4, 2020)

We also need suggestions on how to stop her from eating eggs, she eats every egg she can find when we aren’t watching, if we are raking the barn, and she is in there with us, she won’t touch an egg, as soon as we leave to empty the wheel barrow, she eats the eggs. She isn’t hungry, because she has 24 hour access to food.


This is what my husband rigged to keep the dogs out of the coop.  We put it up every morning and take down every evening.


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## Bruce (Feb 4, 2020)

That is pretty much your only option, exclude the dog. Could that be attached to the door so it can swing with the door or be closed when the door is open? I'm thinking something like 3-4 eye straps screwed over the verticals on the door side.


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## bethh (Feb 4, 2020)

Bruce said:


> That is pretty much your only option, exclude the dog. Could that be attached to the door so it can swing with the door or be closed when the door is open? I'm thinking something like 3-4 eye straps screwed over the verticals on the door side.


I have no idea.  My husband is the whiz.  I’m sure there is a way.  This is super simple and very secure.


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## Baymule (Feb 4, 2020)

I have a chicken that likes Sentry's dog house and she gifts him her eggs! Really?? In the freakin' DOG HOUSE??


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## bethh (Feb 4, 2020)




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## Bruce (Feb 4, 2020)

Baymule said:


> I have a chicken that likes Sentry's dog house and she gifts him her eggs! Really?? In the freakin' DOG HOUSE??


You must have pissed her off something awful for her to give the eggs to the dog instead of you. Have you tried offering an olive branch?


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## Baymule (Feb 7, 2020)

Bruce said:


> You must have pissed her off something awful for her to give the eggs to the dog instead of you. Have you tried offering an olive branch?


Nah, just let her do what she wants to. She's happy, he's happy, life is good for both of them. Now she has figured out that if she heads me off before I get to the gate with Sentry's food bowl in the evenings, I'll give her some dog food.


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## Bruce (Feb 7, 2020)

She is ensuring a long life at your place, who could eat that much personality!?!


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## Baymule (Feb 8, 2020)

Bruce said:


> She is ensuring a long life at your place, who could eat that much personality!?!


. 
Nobody! Joy Chicken can do whatever she wants.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Mar 6, 2020)

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Oh..geez...


' It is safest to bury a pet a few feet deep, The animal should be wrapped in something that is biodegradable, like newspaper or cardboard, and then buried, it is safest to put something heavy on top of the refilled hole.


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## TXFarmGirl (Mar 25, 2020)

Update::: Sheera is doing amazing and we have lost a big 0 chickens from predators since we’ve had her, she Counts them every night, she checks on them, she is sad for one that has a poopy butt, and she knows when we get new chickens(she doesn’t like newcomers much, but eventually excepts them). Thank you all for all the impit you gave. She turned out great with a bit of work, and we are working on more every day.


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## Beekissed (Mar 26, 2020)

TXFarmGirl said:


> Update::: Sheera is doing amazing and we have lost a big 0 chickens from predators since we’ve had her, she Counts them every night, she checks on them, she is sad for one that has a poopy butt, and she knows when we get new chickens(she doesn’t like newcomers much, but eventually excepts them). Thank you all for all the impit you gave. She turned out great with a bit of work, and we are working on more every day.



That's such good news!   Love a good update.


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## Baymule (Mar 27, 2020)

Would love to see pictures of her! (hint, hint)


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## Bruce (Mar 28, 2020)

We always like pictures!!!


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## TXFarmGirl (Mar 28, 2020)

We will upload pictures when we get some. I am always going outside to work and never remember to take the phone with me.

We have a question for any LGD owners. Do you need to brush or bathe them? When we pet her she feels so dirty and gross especially underneath her thick fur.


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## Bruce (Mar 28, 2020)

She probably IS dirty at least in the fur. I expect she will soon "blow coat" for the warmer weather. She might appreciate having some of that combed out as it gets loose.


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