# My quest to find a dairy goat.. HELP! :)



## SarahFair (May 6, 2010)

Ok I would like to buy a dairy goat for my family. We go through a about a gallon and a half a week. 
I really really really want an Oberhasli and in my area they are few and far between. I have found 2 breeders and their prices are about the same. 

One has given me the name and the ADGA reg # but Im not sure what Im looking at on it. 
She was born in 2007 so shes 3 years old.
How long can you milk dairy goats?
He said hes asking between $350-$400, but he wont be sure of sales till his last kidding date which is fine with me (give me time to get my SO use to the idea [hes already said ok, but still not too keen on it] )

Ok, so when I look up her reg # there are a few things Im wondering about..
It says:
Legend:   Polled   Black   Polled and Black
(Polled is highlighted in green, black in black, and polled and black in red)

There are a good many Polled in her lines and a good many blacks. 
What does this mean?


How do these stats look?
Stature - 18
Dairyness - 33
Rump Angle - 23
Rump Width - 25
Rear Leg Side View - 33
Fore Udder Attachment - 27
Rear Udder Height - 38
Rear Udder Arch - 20
Medial - 25
Udder Depth - 45
Teat Placement - 20
Teat Diameter - 14


Shes 1.51% inbred.. Is that bad?

What else can I get from her Reg #?


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## SarahFair (May 6, 2010)

According to this her Linear Traits are not up to par. 
http://kickadeehill.com/documents/Ideal Point Ranges for Linear Traits.pdf
Should I just pas on this goat?


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## ksalvagno (May 6, 2010)

You need someone like Roll Farm to answer since she has Oberhasli's. I would have no idea.


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## aggieterpkatie (May 6, 2010)

It really depends on what you want.  Do you want a show goat or do you want a family milk goat?  Not saying show goats don't milk, but there are PLENTY of wonderful home milk goats who aren't "show quality."  My doe is slightly cow hocked, which isn't the best conformation, but she milks great and is the perfect family milk goat.  I'd definitely want a nice udder though, regardless of whether you'll show or not.  You want a well attached udder with a good median suspensory and good teat placement.  

I'd say if you're just looking for a family milk goat, as long as there are no huge structural issues (like horrible topline or awful parrot mouth or something) but she milks well, go for it. If you're looking for a milk goat who can also win in the show ring, maybe not.  But have you seen pictures of her or are you just going off the stats?


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## Roll farms (May 6, 2010)

Those LA scores don't knock me down as impressive...but I'm not an expert on them by any means.  I know just enough to be dangerous. 

As of tonight, Roll Farms is down to one Ob.  

Both of my Ob does (unrelated, from different herds) had really hard kiddings (single big kids) and one (Jinx) developed mastitis as a first freshener (tested CAE neg)....I didn't want to breed her again, and couldn't justify keeping a buck to use on only one doe...so I sold the pair. (After giving full disclosure to the buyer, of course...they just want a kid out of Jinx since she's from good lines and they don't care if they can't milk her.)

I'm keeping Penny, the black Ob.  She's super smart and will probably milk through w/out being bred this year.

I love their personality, and they're BEAUTIFUL.... but they're not 'practical' for our operation, which needs to pay for itself.

In the last 2 years, for example, Doodle (nubian) has produced 8 kids for us.  Jinx produced 1 and Penny 2.  
Doodle produces 12# of milk per day, Penny produces 10-11#, and Jinx none.
It just makes more sense, as a business, to sell the ones who aren't paying for themselves.

I don't like this part of goat ownership....I adored Jinx.


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## SarahFair (May 7, 2010)

I wouldnt mind having something I can put in the ring.
But if she doesnt seem all that impressive I dont want to pay $350-$400 for her either.
Doesnt that seem a bit high for just a milker?


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## freemotion (May 7, 2010)

A mixed breed doe can fill the milk pail, too!  Mine sure does!  I see no reason to pay that much for a purebred anything...dog, goat, horse, whatever....if the animal is not competitive in the show ring.  Unless you really-really-really like her and will thoroughly enjoy her....in my book, that justfies the price.  Daily enjoyment is worth a few bucks.


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## ksalvagno (May 7, 2010)

That depends on your area and if she is already in milk. and if she is registered. If you are looking for a registered animal, you are going to pay  more even if it isn't show quality. Plus supply and demand play a part in it. If there are only 2 Oberhasli breeders in your area, then they can ask for higher prices. Maybe look for a more popular breed in your area and I bet you can find lower prices. Or go out of state and pay for the shipping or spend the time and money going to pick it up. 

I don't think it matters what the type of animal, it is more money to have quality, registered animals but you can also ask the higher prices for their kids. You will need to decide if you want to spend that extra money and if this is going to be a business or a hobby. Plenty of people who just love goats as a hobby have registered goats and show them and love it. But they are willing to put out the extra money and making money isn't a big deal.

I have an incorporated farm. Especially to the IRS I need my farm to look like a business. I spend the higher dollars and get the registered goats but I also get to write off all expenses pertaining to the goats. If you are just going to have a couple goats, that is considered a hobby and you have to decide how much you want to spend on that hobby.


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## SarahFair (May 7, 2010)

Well like I said...
I would like something I can stick in the show ring and milk.

If this particular goat isnt show or milker quality I dont see paying $350-$400 for it..
That is all


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## ()relics (May 7, 2010)

SarahFair said:
			
		

> I wouldnt mind having something I can put in the ring.
> But if she doesnt seem all that impressive I dont want to pay $350-$400 for her either.
> Doesnt that seem a bit high for just a milker?


2 things...
       1st   you need a solid herd plan, Do you want show stock or do you want a heavy milker?  Same thing? not necessarily.  As Freemotion says there are plenty of heavy milking crossbred animals, BUT most of these wouldn't be allowed to enter a purebred class and most would be unregistered, at least breedwise. Some may be qualify to show in a production class, but you need an end goal before you start building the foundation. Which leads to the second point:
     2nd   You almost always get what you pay for from an honest breeder/producer.  If you tell them you want a milker, they may steer you away from their SQ animals because, frankly, some of them, although they look "really nice", don't produce as much milk as some of their commercial does.  But if you say you are looking for a show animal they most certainly will show you a doe that closely conforms with the breed standard for that particular breed....
  I am not a production  dairy goat person, but I have shown many dairy breeds.  Believe me I have shown some dairy animals that have won  breed conformation classes but would have a hard time producing any sizeable amounts of milk...Meaning they would be last in a production class.  
  To paraphrase: You need a herd goal.  Then you need to buy the best animals, that conform to your goal, that you can afford.  You are setting a herd foundation with your initial animal purchases.  Again believe me, foundations are important because it takes alot of time and money to change your goal once you are headed in a different direction.


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## ksalvagno (May 7, 2010)

You can buy show quality dairy goats that also milk well but I can guarantee that those goats are going to be high dollars. But if that is what you are after, then it is worth it.


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## SarahFair (May 7, 2010)

I mean we go through a gallon and a half a week. Do I need a huge producer for that?


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## ksalvagno (May 7, 2010)

Not really. A good producer will give you at least a gallon a day depending on the breed. I have an Alpine mix that gives me 3/4 gallon a day and her last kidding was may/June of 2009. So it will be 2 years this fall since she has been bred. She is unregistered and a mix but gives quite a bit of milk and it looks like I can breed her every other year. So depending on what you are really looking for, there are really good milkers out there that aren't show quality but well worth it to own.

If you don't need all that milk but want to show, then you can get something that is registered but may not be the massive milk producer. I would go to goat shows and see who is winning in the show ring and then go to them for your purchase.

Also keep in mind that buying a high end registered goat doesn't stop there. You have to spend money on quality hay and feed. Quality hay and feed goes a long way for any goat and it is what you should be buying for your goats. If you want milk, you have to feed that goat properly to get the most milk out of them.


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## Iceblink (May 7, 2010)

A couple other considerations, will you be keeping a buck or trying to rent/borrow someone else's? Will it be an Obi, or will you have to 'make do' with the breed available? If so, your kids will be mixed, and will sell for less, regardless of how much you spent on the doe. If you can buy or use a great Obi buck, and plan to keep or sell the kids for a lot, she might be worth it. 

You should also plan on getting her at least one friend. Goats are social animals and will be miserable by themselves. A companion goat will also cost $, so that will have to be planned for. 

You could ask the breeder about her health and testing status. If he has the paperwork to show that she is CAE, Johnnes, CL free, she might be worth the extra money just for health sake.  Be sure to ask about how she did last time she kidded, and if there were any complications that might be repeated, or if she had mastitis, how easy to milk she is.........

  Sorry i I just made things more complicated for you, there are so many things to consider when one considers the cost of a goat.  Good luck!


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## SarahFair (May 7, 2010)

Iceblink said:
			
		

> A couple other considerations, will you be keeping a buck or trying to rent/borrow someone else's? Will it be an Obi, or will you have to 'make do' with the breed available? If so, your kids will be mixed, and will sell for less, regardless of how much you spent on the doe. If you can buy or use a great Obi buck, and plan to keep or sell the kids for a lot, she might be worth it.
> 
> You should also plan on getting her at least one friend. Goats are social animals and will be miserable by themselves. A companion goat will also cost $, so that will have to be planned for.
> 
> ...


I already have 2 goats, a little ObX doe  and a boerX weather 

I do plan on breeding her to another Reg. Obi buck. If I have to AI her or take her somewhere..


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## SarahFair (May 8, 2010)

I think I have decided to hold off on a show goat till I know more about them..
If I want a goat just for milking and get a mix should the mix be both dairy goat breeds or if its mixed with some other purpose breed will it still work out>


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## freemotion (May 8, 2010)

Depends on the individual goat.  Better chances with dairy mixes, which are rather common, since the dairy has to breed all their does every year.

I have a 25% Boer, 25% Alpine, 50% Nubian mix that I just started milking this morning.  Her baby, half La Mancha, will be kept and bred this fall or next fall depending on size.  I hope the doe is a good producer because I like the size that the Boer gave her, she is quite toasty in the winter and if she gets wet, she is impervious to cold.  

A dairy near me is starting to introduce Boer bucks into their breeding program to increase the value of the kids as meat goats.  So you may see that in your area as well.


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## SarahFair (May 10, 2010)

I put an ad on craigslist to see what was avail. in my area. A lady replyed and asked if I had ever milked a goat before. I told her I hadnt and she offered to let me borrow on of her goats and a stand. Awesome! 

But Ive never borrowed and animal before. What if something goes wrong?


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## glenolam (May 10, 2010)

Maybe a contract would help?  Not that we would ever think something would go wrong, but "You never know" 

Of course, you should meet this gal in person before you agree to taking her doe just to make sure everything is up to snuff and her doe isn't sick or anything like that.  If you decided that it wasn't a good idea to bring her doe to you, maybe you could just bring yourself to the doe a few times a week - assuming she's close enough.

We were going to rent a bull for our heifers and the breeder had a contract that included stuff like "If the bull gets out and dies, you will pay us $XX" and "We're not responsible for any damage the bull causes while on your land" - that kind of stuff. (We decided to bring our heifers to another farm which was closer and owned by a good friend.)


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## SarahFair (May 10, 2010)

She said 


> Since you've never milked a goat, would you like to "borrow" one of mine that is lactating along with my milk stand, for a little while? _Name of goat_ is a registered Saanen, the matriarch of my herd. She is older & has one enlarged teat, but she will hop right up on the stand & has manners. That way, you could get used to the "feel" of milking, and the wonderful taste of goat milk.


She then went on to say more about her herd and experience 

Will and enlarged teat cause problems?


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## chandasue (May 10, 2010)

SarahFair said:
			
		

> Will and enlarged teat cause problems?


Probably not a problem unless it's so large she's stepping on it or catching it on brush. Just doesn't look "pretty".


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## glenolam (May 10, 2010)

I'm not sure about the enlarged teat, but it's definitely worth checking her out before you say yes to bringing her home.  What does this lady want in exchange?  I know some people are just nice, but I'm way too skeptical and have a hard time thinking someone is so willing to put themself out there.

You'd want to ask all the obvious questions, just as if you were brining her home for good - is she UTD on shots, history with worms, mastits, milking history, etc...

I'd also be curious as to why she's willing to lend you her goat _and_ the stand - won't she need it? Guess if it were a personal friend I wouldn't be asking so many questions, but since she came off of CL I'd be a little cautious.  I've had nothing but luck on CL, but I know my time is coming....


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## cmjust0 (May 10, 2010)

I accepted the fact that I'm generally pretty paranoid a long time ago, but still...something really doesn't sound right about this..  I wouldn't loan a goat to anyone, period, and especially not my 'herd queen'...and my goats aren't even registered.

That's not to mention the equipment she's offering to send along as well..

I can't think of any reason why someone would want to do this, unless perhaps they're looking to avoid the work/expense of keeping a milker for a while..  Could be an illness, financial issues, age, a time crunch, or something like that...but I'd be daggone sure to find out exactly what the deal is before I agreed..


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## SarahFair (May 10, 2010)

Hmm yes...
I was wondering as well.

She did say borrow in ""..."borrow"
hmm


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## cmjust0 (May 10, 2010)

"Some people" like to put quotes around "everything", though...for "emphasis" I "guess."



Do be sure to get the details, though..  And as someone else pointed out...contracts are good.  Make sure there's a clause in there which states that you can return the goat any time on short notice...and that she has to take it within, say, 24 hours...and that if she doesn't, it goes to the salebarn and you'll send her a check instead.

Like..if a big CL knot pops up...time to go, NOW.

I guess that's because part of me thinks this lady's trying to unload a "problem goat" for some reason. (<- notice the quotes.  )


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## mossyStone (May 10, 2010)

Becareful....Sometime to borrow something can get you in deep nanny berrys :  I dont loan things out to any one..and esp an animal........ Something just sounds fishy about this! 


Mossy Stone Farm


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## The Egg Bandit (May 10, 2010)

The value of the milk stand alone makes me question this deal.


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## Roll farms (May 11, 2010)

At most, I'd offer to let someone come here a couple times and milk the goats...and I'd have to really like that person to bother....

I'd never let one of "mine" (and my equipment) go somewhere else unless they were paid for....especially to a newbie.

So, yeah...the deal sounds sorta hinkie to me.


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## glenolam (May 11, 2010)

Glad I'm not the only skeptic!


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## ksalvagno (May 11, 2010)

Of course, I would still go over and see everything. She could have some old nasty homemade milkstand that was the first they ever had that she uses on lone. Maybe she is anxious for a sale and willing to do that. Who knows. I would be skeptical but I would still go over to her place to see her place and her goats and talk to her. It may turn out to the be the best thing ever or it could be the worst.


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## mamaluv321 (May 11, 2010)

I agree with the pp, you never know unless you try. Some people are extremely trusting! Keep us posted, I'm intrigued!


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## freemotion (May 11, 2010)

I've had a lot of good experiences with craigslist ads and one big stinker....I adopted a dog last fall and the lady started stalking me about two weeks later.  Had to call a lawyer.  Nightmare.

Then again, met some great people, including the ones I bought my buck from last fall.  They gave me some colostrum last week when I needed some quickly.  Wouldn't accept any payment, either.

I would be VERY wary of this one.  Sounds fishy to me.


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## SarahFair (May 12, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> I've had a lot of good experiences with craigslist ads and one big stinker....I adopted a dog last fall and the lady started stalking me about two weeks later.  Had to call a lawyer.  Nightmare.
> 
> Then again, met some great people, including the ones I bought my buck from last fall.  They gave me some colostrum last week when I needed some quickly.  Wouldn't accept any payment, either.
> 
> I would be VERY wary of this one.  Sounds fishy to me.


I adopted a dog that came up as a rescue from hurricane ivan. That lady was NUTS! She called the lawyer on US becaues we never sent papers saying we got her shots, etc. When I told her what I had named the dog (which was originally Ms Muffet) she said 'Ugh, I guess you just have to know a dog to name it right' 




Anyways, I asked the lady, and I said:
'I am sorry if this sounds rude and blunt but I can not think of a nicer way to ask: Why are you just so willing to lend out your goat?'
She kind of acted offended and was saying things 'Notice I didnt ask you any questions like if you had goats, your fencing, housing, etc. Oh, you have goats? That is a big no no for me' 
Which is fine, I understand. She said shed still show me how to milk one if I buy one..
Oh well 



I have an OberX but she has 4 teats. 2 of them look like duds but they seem to be attached to each other. Would this make her a "faulty" milker?


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## glenolam (May 12, 2010)

I guess somethings are just too good to be true...

You should tell her that maybe next time she might get someone who isn't truthful and doesn't give her any personal info and ends up killing her goat.

I'd post another ad asking if anyone provides milking lessons in exchange for barn help.  I've seen that done several times here - at least it's bartering and not something for nothing.


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## cmjust0 (May 12, 2010)

SarahFair said:
			
		

> Anyways, I asked the lady, and I said:
> 'I am sorry if this sounds rude and blunt but I can not think of a nicer way to ask: Why are you just so willing to lend out your goat?'
> She kind of acted offended and was saying things 'Notice I didnt ask you any questions like if you had goats, your fencing, housing, etc. Oh, you have goats? That is a big no no for me'
> Which is fine, I understand. She said shed still show me how to milk one if I buy one..
> Oh well


See, the things she's so proud of herself for not asking would have been the very first things I'd have asked before even considering loaning out a goat...

...which I would never, ever do...but still...

And I also notice that, not only was she willing to lend you a milker, but she was also willing to send her someplace where she'd be alone..  

Being alone is terribly, terribly stressful for a goat.  

So is 'shipping,' which is what this would have amounted to..

I dunno...maybe she got offended, but I honestly feel like you're dodging a bullet here.

Frankly, I think I'd even go find someone else to buy from if you were considering a purchase..  I'm not saying this lady mistreats her goats or anything like that...she just seems a bit....ill-informed, maybe?


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## SarahFair (May 12, 2010)

I dont think I would buy a goat from her. She seemed like one of those check up type people.
She was really nice though..


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## mamaluv321 (May 13, 2010)

Interesting, never seen a double teat. While I don't kow if it will make it hard to milk her, I'd imagine she'd likely pass that trait on to any offspring.


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