# Cold months and having kits?



## Nao57 (Oct 26, 2020)

So I wanted to ask... is it a bad idea to start new litters in winter months? What do you think? 

Does it work, but just have more trouble? Or not work at all? And is it not considered bad?

And I'm also curious if it does work, then what do you do differently? 

Rabbits are really amazing. I love this.

Although...I do get more allergies from the rabbits than I do from poultry and ducks.


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## animalmom (Oct 26, 2020)

Where I live in Texas late fall through early spring is the only time I can breed my rabbits.  Once it warms up to the mid 80's and upward the boys are willing but shooting blanks.

Our winters can get down to the teens (yeah I know there is a lot of folks who would enjoy just the teens, but that's cold for us) and I've not had a kindling failure due to the temps.  The does normally pull more fur, I stuff the nest box with more hay and I have a bag with extra fur just in case.

I think it is more important to be able to keep the wind/drafts off the bunnies as much as possible.

Regarding your allergies... do you brush your rabbits?  Brushing has several benefits such as getting the loose fur off the bun, not letting the loose fur float through the air, and the fur in the brush goes in the bag for supplemental fur in nest boxes.  You should was your hands after brushing your buns.  They have dander, like with cats, that might be what is causing your reaction.


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## Nao57 (Oct 26, 2020)

animalmom said:


> Where I live in Texas late fall through early spring is the only time I can breed my rabbits.  Once it warms up to the mid 80's and upward the boys are willing but shooting blanks.
> 
> Our winters can get down to the teens (yeah I know there is a lot of folks who would enjoy just the teens, but that's cold for us) and I've not had a kindling failure due to the temps.  The does normally pull more fur, I stuff the nest box with more hay and I have a bag with extra fur just in case.
> 
> ...



Thanks. That sounds fun also for brushing.


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## Rex79 (Oct 27, 2020)

I was wondering about the winter months.  Is the any bedding products that might help keep kits, or even the adult breeders, warm?  I don't have any extra fur but might start collecting some from my New Zealand doe as she is moulting right now.


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## Niele da Kine (Oct 28, 2020)

We get less litters in the fall.  I'm not quite sure why, it may be because of heat sterility in the bucks, that can last for awhile from summer temperatures over somewhere in the mid-eighties.. Or it could be from less daylight, although we don't get a lot of changes in the daylight but maybe they notice.  There's hopefully two litters next month, we will find out in about a week.  They may show up, they may not.  Once January rolls around, then litters will appear more dependably. 

Can't help you with the how to keep them warm in the cold situation since we don't really do cold.  A lot of it would be depending on your area and the buns housing.  FWIW, they're usually better dealing with cold than dealing with heat, but baby bunnies have to stay warm to survive.  Draft proof with a lot of nesting material should be a good starting point?


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## Baymule (Oct 28, 2020)

Once upon a time when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I raised show rabbits, Satins, in 5 colors. I kept about 300. I bred 10-15 does at a time so if a doe rejected their litter, I had plenty of foster moms. I used hanging wire cages in a barn with 3 sides and 2 sides had wire at the bottom for ventilation. The open side was wire with a door. For nights in the 20's and teens, I used those aluminum shield clamp on auto lights. I put a 100 watt light bulb in it and placed the light over the nest box. I pointed the clamp up and ran the cord through it up to a rafter to keep the rabbits from biting the cord. The kits were always toasty warm. Once they grew in some fur, I no longer put the light on them.


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## Niele da Kine (Oct 29, 2020)

Gadzooks and little fishes!  300 rabbits is a LOT of rabbits!  How did you keep track of them all?  Was it the old paper and pencil system or did you have a computer program?  Were they all in individual cages?  Automatic feed and water system of any type?  Maybe there should be a new thread on how to keep a big herd so we don't highjack this one?

Are there still those 100 watt bulbs available to keep winter babies warm?  Although, I suppose the heating type of bulb used above a buffet line are still being made.  Would an electric heating pad work?  Put it in a plastic bag so it wouldn't get wet or dirty and under the nest box somehow?  Have to be outside the wire so the buns couldn't chew on it.

For a winter litter, the nestbox can be brought in side and taken out to the doe twice a day?


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## Baymule (Oct 29, 2020)

Niele da Kine said:


> Gadzooks and little fishes!  300 rabbits is a LOT of rabbits!  How did you keep track of them all?  Was it the old paper and pencil system or did you have a computer program?  Were they all in individual cages?  Automatic feed and water system of any type?


I SAID back when dinosaurs roamed the earth! It was the old paper and pencil system. LOL No computers back then! Yes, I had individual cages, rows of buck cages, by colors and personality. I had a black Satin buck that loved to be petted-insisted on it-and he was by the door. If I did not stop and pet him, he whirled around and sprayed me. He got moved to the back of the barn! Feeders hung on/in the cages, I was the "automatic". Water was a pipe ran between the backs of the cages, double row, with nipples extended into the cage. 



Niele da Kine said:


> Are there still those 100 watt bulbs available to keep winter babies warm?  Although, I suppose the heating type of bulb used above a buffet line are still being made.  Would an electric heating pad work?  Put it in a plastic bag so it wouldn't get wet or dirty and under the nest box somehow?  Have to be outside the wire so the buns couldn't chew on it.
> 
> For a winter litter, the nestbox can be brought in side and taken out to the doe twice a day?



Incandescent light bulbs can still be found. A heating pad would not work. Bringing the nest box inside and taken out to the doe twice a day would quickly turn into an onerous chore. Refer to the Auto light above. Aluminum shield supports the light bulb and directs the heat to the open top nest box.


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## Niele da Kine (Oct 30, 2020)

Keeping track of that many with paper and pencil is really impressive.  I use a program called 'Kintracks' and there's this handy 'coefficient of inbreeding' button that will tell me how inbred two animals are.  Trying to calculate that for hundreds would take hours and hours.

I keep thinking it might be fun to make a program that would estimate possible colors from a mating between two rabbits, but there's so many other things to do that it probably won't ever get done.  If you were raising five colors of Satins, though, you've probably got the rabbit coat color genetics down cold?

I think one of the new baby bunnies may be 'dark sable'.  Sort of a very rich dark dark chocolate brown.  I'd thought it was a black originally but now it's obviously not black, but it's not chocolate, either, I don't think.  It's only five weeks old, have to see what it does next week.  Dark Sable would be the chinchilla light gene and I've been working with pretty much the same herd of rabbits with very little additional input for quite a few years now,   Would this be a gene that was hiding somewhere?  Has the level of inbreeding gotten to where these genes can now show up?

Maybe I'll try for some more winter litters (to try and haul this back around to the original topic) and see if new and interesting colors show up, although the new one is still way too young to breed.


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## Beekissed (Oct 30, 2020)

Ours always bred and kindled better and bigger litters in the colder months, so we just kept them going all winter on litters.  Seems the more you breed a doe, the better she does, which is often the opposite of most other kinds of livestock.  

No heat lamps or anything.   Just plenty of clean, fresh hay for the nest boxes and the mother pulls fur to provide the rest.  It's amazing how warm her down can keep those kits.   We had a rabbit barn for winter so no wind or anything could reach them.  

If I had rabbits out in hutches I'd build a shelter over that to keep out prevailing winds...I'd likely do that with cattle panels and use a clear tarp so I could see more easily and the sun would warm the whole area.   It would also be a great place to use composting deep litter and double up with chickens and/or ducks in the lower story....all these things produces good warmth in the coldest parts of the winter while reducing the high ammonia levels rabbits tend to provide.


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## Niele da Kine (Oct 30, 2020)

There would be some amazing compost for the spring garden under that bunny hutch, too!  Do ducks have a 'hot' manure that needs to be composted?  Chickens do, but I don't know how long it's supposed to be composted.  If one knew how long chicken manure is supposed to compost, they could be taken out from under the rabbits about that long before the garden was planted and there's be the perfect compost for the garden.  Bunny manure is the only fertilizer we use on our gardens, although a lot of that has to do with the cost of imported fertilizers.

Winter litters are perfect for spring gardens.


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## Beekissed (Oct 30, 2020)

Niele da Kine said:


> There would be some amazing compost for the spring garden under that bunny hutch, too!  Do ducks have a 'hot' manure that needs to be composted?  Chickens do, but I don't know how long it's supposed to be composted.  If one knew how long chicken manure is supposed to compost, they could be taken out from under the rabbits about that long before the garden was planted and there's be the perfect compost for the garden.  Bunny manure is the only fertilizer we use on our gardens, although a lot of that has to do with the cost of imported fertilizers.
> 
> Winter litters are perfect for spring gardens.



Duck is hot manure.   If you just kept a running deep litter, composting it as you go along, you'd always have some that's ready for the garden.   I've been doing that for years now, so no need to pile up poop and wait for it to be ready.   In HI, you should be able to compost that easily all year round, right in the coop or rabbit barn.  That's a win/win!


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## Baymule (Oct 30, 2020)

@Niele da Kine I and several others practice deep litter in the chicken coops. I use leaves mainly, because in the fall, there are lots of raked up leaves at the curb for garbage pick up. We used to pick them up for chicken litter. Now, living on 8 acres we have plenty of our own leaves LOL. The chickens will scratch the leaves to bits, poop on them and make compost. You don’t exactly have “fall” leaves, but you have plenty of vegetation to use as chicken litter.


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## Niele da Kine (Oct 31, 2020)

Nope, no fall leaves here!  A friend of mine who had grown up on the mainland took his girlfriend to his parent's home one wintertime to somewhere in Illinois.  They were driving out of the airport for about an hour and she was really quiet and he asked her what was wrong.  She asked 'how big was the forest fire?"  The only time we see trees without their leaves is after a fire and they're all dead.  

We don't have chicken litter since the chickens here just kinda wander around.  They have a mongoose proof box to lay eggs in and the rest of the time they just kinda go where they want.  They're fenced out of the garden and chased off the porch.  They sleep up in the trees and fly up there if they're chased by the neighbor's dog.

The bunnies don't have litter, either, since they're angoras and have wire bottomed hutches so their wool stays clean.  Litter gets tangled in their wool and makes a mess.  The sheep don't have litter since they've not cleared out enough grass for us to have an area to build their hut, but they won't get litter even then since hay runs around $38 a small square bale (50#?) and the feed store doesn't even bother to bring in straw.  We may cut down some of the tall grasses and put them down for the flooring of their hut, but we can't build the hut until the tall grasses are eaten back.

So, we just scoop bunny manure from under the bunny hutches and spread it on the garden.  It's mixed with the soil and not with any sort of vegetative litter.

The winter time litters get dried grasses, fresh grasses and the mum bun pulls wool for her nest.  So that's almost like litter.  In a couple more months - January, February and maybe March, it will be colder at night - down to the mid to lower fifties.  Then we will line the wire bottom of the dropped nesting areas with carpet scraps or cardboard.  Our 'winter' is delayed here because the ocean keeps everything at a pretty stable temperature but there's the tall mountain, Mauna Kea, which gets snow on top of it during the winter and at night the cold air from the snow rolls down hill.  During the day, the sea breeze, our 'tradewinds', keep the cold away but they slow down or stop at night so it gets too cold for the baby bunnies without additional insulation.


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