# Opinions on these Does



## scrambledmess (Mar 23, 2012)

I am looking at this doe (2 yo), she comes with a week old doeling.  Doe is registered and doeling can be registered.  Mother is first freshner.  The owner has not been milking her, but stated that her mother gave 3/4 gallon per day.  She handles well to be led, but has not been handled on the milk stand.  The udder picture is 36 hours after birth as a first freshner.  She is asking $550 for both.  Let me know all your thoughts, please.  TIA

This is the doe a month before giving birth:







Mother and kid:






Newly freshened:











Doeling:






Apparently, I don't know how to edit pictures to make them all small.  Sorry  LOL


----------



## Queen Mum (Mar 23, 2012)

The doe looks like she has a good udder attachment.    Can't see the doe's body really well.  She seems to have kind of a sloped butt, but she is pregnant in the pictures so that might be affecting her conformation.  Both have nice coloring.  Ears on the doe look a bit short, but seem well formed.  She looks pretty sturdy.  I suspect you would be fine milking her once she got used to you.  How is her health, previous care, etcetera?  3/4 gallon isn't all that great an output, but it's not terrible either.  

The kid has nice looking ears, lovely coloring and is really cute.

Price doesn't seem too high.  Make sure the kid is tattoo'd and disbudded before you buy them, if you decide to take them.


----------



## dhansen (Mar 24, 2012)

Oh, how I love spots!  Having her kid nursing on her, will make her udder not quite as impressive also.  I would also try milking a few squirts to see how that feels/goes. There is nothing more frustrating than a doe that has lots of milk, but it takes forever to milk her.


----------



## AdoptAPitBull (Mar 24, 2012)

Nice looking goats, but the price needs to drop significantly. What you have in front of you is a doe who may be horrendous to milk and it is her first freshening, which means less milk anyway.

I think you'd be better off buying a second or third timer who has some history behind her. A FF can kind of be a big "what if?" in terms of udder, output, and behavior.

I'm sure you can get a better deal on mom and kid somewhere, if you want to go that route. I'd suggest two freshened does vs doe with kid because the kid will end up taking most of the milk, and then you have to wait 8 or so months till it's time to breed.


----------



## hcppam (Mar 24, 2012)

Nice looking girls...I'll be going through the same thing as you FF with kid, not a lot of choice in my area with good breeders so I when I found a good one, I chose what she had. Good luck. I think the pic with her on the milk stand is just the way she is standing with her tail tucked not slab butt.


----------



## Queen Mum (Mar 24, 2012)

I don't know, I don't think the price is all that bad for a registered doe and her kid.  There is some room for negotiation I think.


----------



## EggsForIHOP (Mar 24, 2012)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> I don't know, I don't think the price is all that bad for a registered doe and her kid.  There is some room for negotiation I think.


Ditto - 'round here the price sounds about right for registered goats and all...though I would do as dhansen suggested and insisting on at least ATTEMPTING milking her BEFORE you finalize the deal....if she is super kicky, lays down, has crummy tight orifices...well...then I dunno...I prefer my does easy to milk as a rodeo is NOT what I signed up for with goats (that's why we have horses)...don't get me wrong, some days ARE a rodeo in the goat pen, and kicky milkers can be worked with,,,but if she tries to knock your teeth out when you go to milk her, ARE you going to WANT to work through that?

My opinion, for $550, even with papers...she better be well behaved enough to milk pretty easily...but that's just how I feel...throwing another thing to think about out there...some does take right to milking and practically do it for you, some are ALWAYS a battle to milk and take the fun out of it...


----------



## scrambledmess (Mar 24, 2012)

Thank you all for your opinions.  I am taking it all into consideration


----------



## AdoptAPitBull (Mar 25, 2012)

EggsForIHOP said:
			
		

> Queen Mum said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, 100x yes. An easy milker, even if she doesn't give as much as some others, can be worth her weight in gold. Nothing is worse than seeing a gorgeous doe with a gorgeous udder, and then get kicked in the face by her gorgeous hind legs. If it's a production to get the milk, it's not going to be worth it. 

That said, I'm nervous as heck to start milking my FF here. She's usually a very flighty goat, and I'm not looking forward to how she is going to be on the stand. Alas, I'm attached to her since she was my first doe born here. But darn is she going to give me a headache!


----------



## pridegoethb4thefall (Mar 25, 2012)

I guess I didnt understand what you posted? How can the seller know how much milk she gives if- she is a first freshener, and hasnt been milked before?

Not understanding that part.

$550 seems a bit steep to me for a milk goat that isnt trained. Ask yourself- what if I was buying a dried off doe with unknown milk production and unknown udders?

THEN ask yourself- what if I was buying a doeling that wasnt registered yet?

What would you expect to pay for those things? 

Of course, personal opinion and emotions always come into play.... those can be the hardest to handle.


----------



## Queen Mum (Mar 25, 2012)

pridegoethb4thefall said:
			
		

> I guess I didnt understand what you posted? How can the seller know how much milk she gives if- she is a first freshener, and hasnt been milked before?
> 
> Not understanding that part.
> 
> ...


I think the OP said the mother of the doe gave 3/4 of a gallon, not the doe herself.


----------



## EggsForIHOP (Mar 25, 2012)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> pridegoethb4thefall said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was how I read it too - the grandma goat gives 3/4 gallon, and I take "doeling can be registered" to mean "the breeder will print and sign the ADGA papers and you will leave with them in your hot little hands because the breeder hasn't actually filed those papers yet  "

And you have to remember, it's $550 TOTAL...a 2 in 1 package at that price...still not too shabby   I'm really curious to see more genetics type info - like sires background because that too can have a bearing on what the does will produce...


----------



## Roll farms (Mar 25, 2012)

I also think it's a bit steep for 2 "unproven" does....It doesn't sound like they do DHIR, LA, etc.  No mention of CAE status, either.

I bought 2 bred does, who dam's are shown  / on milk test / have been LA'd....and the does have been CAE tested.  
One bred to a Pruittsville buck, the other to a Kastdemur buck, and got twins out of both.  
One was 475$, the other 400$.

Those prices I thought were downright reasonable, considering that I could see the proof of their potential.


----------



## redtailgal (Mar 26, 2012)

I've been reading this thread, but havent pitched in since I am so new to goats.  

But I was wondering, how does one decide the value/cost of a doe in milk?

There just is no way I would spend that much on an untrained, untested, unproven critter for milk, unless she had some serious background genetics to back her up......more than just her mother.  

I've seen Jersey calves grow into cows with gorgeous udders that just didnt produce despite them coming from mothers that produced like all get out.  These are goats, but genetics are genetics.  I'd have to have more background.


----------



## AdoptAPitBull (Mar 26, 2012)

I agree.

A farm local to me with ADGA Nubians sells hers sometimes for as low as $200 for mom with kids. Now I think she does it because she's too nice sometimes, but still, you CAN find better rates with more proven animals.


----------



## sawfish99 (Mar 26, 2012)

Here in CT average registered goats are selling for $200ish.  Kids are more like $150.  I don't see $550 in the package and I live in a high cost area.  In fact, I bought a registered doe 5 weeks prior to kidding for $150 and got twin doelings.
If you are after family level production, I say find a better deal and an experienced doe to learn milking.


----------



## capretta (Mar 26, 2012)

Nice looking does there! And the kid is cute as heck!

I think that $550 is a LOT for two does. And will the seller register them for you? I know that process can be a little pricy! If I were you I'd ask the seller to come down a little...
The momma looks really good, nice udders and udder attachment, nice conformation, and a beautiful color pattern as well, you'll get some pretty kids from her!
As for the kid, I'm not so sure, she's super cute, but she seems a little sticky to me, I hope for your sake she fills out a little bit!


----------



## Queen Mum (Mar 26, 2012)

Nubian babies all look skinny.  That is normal.  In OK and WA the average price for a registerable Nubian doe is $300 to $400 for an unproven doe (in milk) and MUCH higher for a proven doe in milk.  The average price for a registerable kid is $200 - $250 unproven.  ADD SPOTS and Oh MY GOSH, people will pay a fortune for those spots.  

Just saying.  Kids with big pedigrees go for MUCH higher.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Mar 27, 2012)

I personally wouldn't pay near that amount.  If you split it up, the doe would be $350ish and the kid $200 ish.  $200 is a lot for a kid who isnt' even registered, and I wouldn't buy them until she had the kid's papers in her hands and was goign to give them to you when you picked the goats up.   If the kid was registered and you actually had the papers, then maybe $200 wouldn't be so bad.  I wouldn't pay $350 for the doe though, no matter what. I'd want her to have been milked by hand and used to that, AND bred back if I was going to pay that much.  And like Rolls says, they don't mention CAE status or anything either.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Mar 27, 2012)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> Nubian babies all look skinny.  That is normal.  In OK and WA the average price for a registerable Nubian doe is $300 to $400 for an unproven doe (in milk) and MUCH higher for a proven doe in milk.  The average price for a registerable kid is $200 - $250 unproven.  ADD SPOTS and Oh MY GOSH, people will pay a fortune for those spots.
> 
> Just saying.  Kids with big pedigrees go for MUCH higher.


How do you get an unproven doe in milk?  

Are you guys saying "unproven" as far as they never measured milk amts?  Because I've only seen it referencing breeding or not.  For example, a buck would be proven when he has sired kids, and a doe would be proven when she kids.


----------



## KinderKorner (Mar 27, 2012)

I paid $400 each for 3 nubian doelings at weaning. So $550 doesn't seem that much to me for a doe in milk and a doeling.

BUT my doelings were from one of the or the best breeder in IL, and they were spotted. So they were extremely worth it. I worked hard to get on the long list. She had no problems selling them at that price. But still. Around here that is the going price for Nubians. 

(Well not actually around here since I drove 6 hours one way to get them. lol. 'around here' goats sell for $50.)

Her udder isn't that impressive, and if she isn't from a spectacular herd I would see if I could get the price down to $500 or $450. That seems more fair. She looks just like an average nubian to me. I can't see anything that would justify bouncing her price up to $550. 

Testing is very important. No goat comes here without a clean test for CL and CAE. Been there, done that. Never again.


----------



## hcppam (Mar 27, 2012)

I paid $425 for a Good Regesterd ND and will be paying $300 for a doeing in June. But I'm in California? So the price dose not sound steep in comparison.


----------



## goatsintheopen (Mar 27, 2012)

KinderKorner said:
			
		

> I paid $400 each for 3 nubian doelings at weaning. So $550 doesn't seem that much to me for a doe in milk and a doeling.
> 
> *BUT my doelings were from one of the or the best breeder in IL, and they were spotted. So they were extremely worth it. I worked hard to get on the long list. She had no problems selling them at that price. But still. Around here that is the going price for Nubians. *
> 
> ...


While reading the thread I was thinking what you stated.  That the only time I've seen High priced Goats like that, was on websites from well established, reputable farms.  

 I don't think I would pay 550 for a doe and kid unless I knew that that animals were worth the money and healthy..meaning I'd want to see health records..ect.  They'd really have to justify asking 550$  otherwise forget about it.


----------



## scrambledmess (Apr 1, 2012)

Thanks again for all the comments.  I sent off a nice email stating why I couldn't pay and she was "very" against lowering her price, went on to state a bunch of stuff about how good they were, etc..  I will say I did misinterpret the email and she was milking the doe.  However, no she wouldn't have done the registering of the doeling, the herd was not tested though she stated she did only buy from tested herds...  Anyway, she told me no to lowering the price even a smidge.   Then yesterday, I found that she had the doe and doeling listed on Hoobly for $400.    I am not interested any longer though.  Not worth it to me even for that price.


----------



## AdoptAPitBull (Apr 1, 2012)

Wow...I think you dodged a bullet there!

I have a feeling that she was not a very genuine person and you may have been getting her leftovers. There plenty of goats in need of homes, and I'm sure you'll find some soon.


----------



## hcppam (Apr 1, 2012)

You'll find the right girls for you.


----------



## goatsintheopen (Apr 2, 2012)

scrambledmess said:
			
		

> Thanks again for all the comments.  I sent off a nice email stating why I couldn't pay and she was "very" against lowering her price, went on to state a bunch of stuff about how good they were, etc..  I will say I did misinterpret the email and she was milking the doe.  However, no she wouldn't have done the registering of the doeling, the herd was not tested though she stated she did only buy from tested herds...  Anyway, she told me no to lowering the price even a smidge.   Then yesterday, I found that she had the doe and doeling listed on Hoobly for $400.    I am not interested any longer though.  Not worth it to me even for that price.


AW!! From what you said, it seems as though that woman was neither a nice nor honest person.  I don't blame you a bit for not being interested anymore! 

 Like the other posters said, you probably did avoid a mess and you will find an honest individual who will work with you. You'll find the right goat.


----------



## sawfish99 (Apr 4, 2012)

If you are still looking for goats, there are a few good facebook groups where goats are listed for sale:
Dairy Goats for Sale
Goats for Sale/Seeking Goats for Sale
Lamancha Dairy Goats for Sale

There are constantly goats on there from all over the country.  Even if you don't want to travel, there are people going on trips that offer transport of goats for a fee and they post their trip plans for coordination.


----------

