# Part-time or full-time farmer?



## goats4us (Feb 28, 2018)

We are getting ready to get our goats, but not sure I'm ready to give up my paying job. How many of you juggle a full-time job in addition to raising goats or other livestock? Is someone in your family a full-time farmer? Advice? Opinions? Drawbacks?


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## mysunwolf (Feb 28, 2018)

First off, welcome to BYH!!

I used to have 15+ sheep and also worked part-time off farm, part-time at home. With no one else in the family farming. Honestly, you gotta do what you gotta do. If you need that income, you should work. But I didn't give the animals the same good care when I was working off-farm. It was difficult to find any time to just sit outside and monitor them. When you're learning, it's even harder since you have to watch animals a long time to figure out what their normal behavior patterns are so that you can spot a problem in time to treat. I found a job that's 10-15 hours a week that I use to supplement all my farm and art income, and that pays for groceries that we don't grow or raise. Anything more than 30 hours a week became really detrimental to the farm. But my health is also not the best, so keep that in mind.

Our neighbor works as a mailman full time and keeps a flock of 50 ewes, some cattle, pigs, poultry, etc. But his wife stays home with the children and the whole group of them will care for the animals when he's away. That way they can spot emergencies and treat them before they have deadstock, and then he can come home and do the heavy lifting. It works out nicely in their case, though it does make it hard for them to do all the other farm projects life calls for--fence work, new fencing, building coops/sheds/barns, updating feeding/watering systems, corralling loose animals, etc.


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## greybeard (Feb 28, 2018)

full time, but I do have investment income coming in. Farming (beef cattle) has to pay it's own way and all the property taxes and most time, a few farthings more.


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## farmerjan (Feb 28, 2018)

My son and I both work off the farm full time.  But our jobs complement each other and my hours are crazy and vary from day to day and week to week.  I am a milk tester for dairy farms and he works for VDOT.  I will retire in about 1 1/2 years.  We also "farm full time".  We run 150 to 200 head of beef cow calf pairs.  I also have anywhere from 2 to 6 dairy nurse cows with calves on them, and sometimes milk for the house, and usually have a few bottle calves at intervals. We make all our own hay, and he has a flock of about 40-50 ewes and keeps about 20 rams at any one time.  They are White Texas Dall sheep.  A hair breed that we raise the rams up for their horns to go on hunting preserves, and any young stock that doesn't make the cut are sold at different times of the year as lamb for ethnic holidays.  We both also have some purebred chickens; different breeds for him and I.  Plus we live in different houses about 5 miles apart. I also grow a garden and can and freeze most of the food I eat throughout the year.  We raise all our own beef, chicken and lamb consumed.  

Sometimes things do not get done as good as they should, but then other times we do just fine.  Alot depends on the weather;  hay season gets pretty tough, but right now between feeding in the mud, and  just getting started calving, we are doing okay.  We actually got the latest 6 new calves tagged today and moved to a back pasture with alot of stockpiled grass.  The serious calving will get going in about a week or two.  Have about 70 cows and 20 heifers to calve this spring, total. 

We cannot afford to farm without the outside income to pay his mortgage and my rent and the payments on the 75 acre farm he just bought 2 years ago; plus all the rents on pastures.  The goal is to have enough cows to pay all the farming related expenses, and to be able to put back some so he can buy a 150-300 acre farm to retire to by the time he is 55.  He will sell the 75 acre farm then, and who knows what my health will be like in 10 years or where I will be living.  
Unless you have some decent outside income, I do not see how anyone can just farm.  I work with some very good dairy farmers and they are struggling due to low milk prices and high costs.   Almost everyone I know has some other income, investments or retirement or something, or has a spouse that works off the farm to help pay the household expenses.


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## Baymule (Feb 28, 2018)

welcome to the forum. Glad to have you here, there are lots of very nice people here who will help you and answer questions for you.

You should do a feasibility study just like any new business starting out. Get a spread sheet going for expenses. Feed, hay, vet bills, cost of starter livestock. Do you already have a barn/shelter, is there goat/predator proof fence in place? Will you have to build these things?

Neighborhood dogs are the biggest killer of small livestock, followed by coyotes. What are the predators for your area?  Almost ALL of us have Livestock Guard Dogs or LGD's. There are various breeds, if you get a pup, it will need training and time spent with it. You will have feed and vet expenses for your dogs also. One of my dogs swallowed a hickory nut last year, it lodged in his intestine and required surgery. $800 later, we took him home. Yeah, a goofball, but we love him. 

You will lose livestock. They die. It hurts, we cry and pick ourselves up and go hug a sheep, goat or our dogs. So figure in losses on your spreadsheet. You may go several years where every kid lives, no does or bucks die, but there will come a time where things just happen. I am not trying to discourage you, just laying out facts. 

Identify your market. Who is going to buy your goats? How will you advertise your goats and what competition do you have? What age will you sell them and for what price? What kind of goats are you getting? Are they registered pure breed, pure breed not registered or mixed breed? Are they meat or dairy goats? 

Insurance. We have a farm policy. We sell lamb, pork and eggs, so if anyone gets sick or claims to get sick from a product from our farm, we are covered. Will people come on your farm, what if they fall down and hurt themselves? We have had our farm for 3 years and operate at a loss. We had to build a barn, all the fencing, chicken coops, plant grasses, etc. 

I would suggest keeping your job to start with, especially if you have to build infrastructure of fencing. There are a lot of people who farm and work. It certainly can be done. I hope I don't come across as a Debbie Downer, I am a positive, happy person. I am just trying to bring up things you may or may not have thought about. 

@misfitmorgan and her husband both work full time jobs and they raise goats, sheep, poultry, registered Hereford hogs and mixed breed hogs. Maybe she can add to this conversation!

I kept horses and chickens for years while working 10 hours a day, full time. I also raised a garden, canned, dehydrated and froze a lot of our food. I raised the chickens for meat and eggs. I raised ducks for the freezer. Now we are retired, so I added more animals, but they are not a full time, all day job.


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## babsbag (Feb 28, 2018)

I worked full time when I first got my goats but I never intended to make any money off of them. Then things progressed and I ended up building a goat dairy, just got it certified last week. I no longer work off the farm, but my husband does. I couldn't do this without his income, there is no way my small dairy will pay its bills and our household expenses too. I just want the goats to pay for themselves.


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## Simpleterrier (Mar 1, 2018)

This is an interesting topic I'm glad it started. Sometimes while reading on here u think everyone is a millionaire. I work full time and my wife stays home full time. But our animals have to pay for themselves. I sell enough eggs to pay for new chicks and feed so we get free eggs for our house. Last year the chicken price was high and i had hens hatch eggs so we sold roosters for good money. My goats I make a few hundred dollars. We have three does to freshen. And will sell most of the kids. Pigs I raise extra and sell to help offset the cost of the one I raise for us. Beef I have found it is cheaper to raise your own then buy in the store. I help bale hay in the summer for free hay. So that removes a big cost. I build every thing myself so that saves. Also I think about animal worth compared to vet bills. So not to have more in an animal then it is worth.


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## misfitmorgan (Mar 1, 2018)

@Baymule lists a lot of good points and things to think about. Farming is not for the faint of heart or those that dont have a good work ethic because it is work when you have to build fence, a shelter, make or move hay, clean out pens/stalls, process animals, band/dehorn/tag/draw blood/trim hooves...etc your livestock.

My DH and i both work fulltime off the farm and DH has been on OT for almost 2 months now. We just bought a new farm and moved this past October so we get to start over with not only zero fencing but also we need to clear the land before we can put up the fence. 

Does our farm in general suffer because of our lack of time to do all the things we want to do? I would say yes. Normally our list of "NEED to do" is pretty short, this year it is ridiculous but it will get done. Beyond a lack of time is a bigger lack of money atm, buying a new house/farm in late late fall right before all the winter bills kick in is a bad idea unless you have a few thousand in your bank to help cover those unknown costs. Would we love to quit our jobs and just farm....of course, but that wont happen for a long time, if it ever does.

As bay mentioned we raise poultry, goats, sheep, and pigs. We also now have an orchard with 18 apples trees that will need pruned heavily, a 125ft grape arbor that needs pruned badly, we put in 1-2 acres of garden each year, we grow/harvest/bale/move all of our own hay, we own 7 dogs(1 is a LGD), i do all the cooking and we are not fond of boxes or tin cans so most things are from scratch, i do all the housework, we can/freeze food, process our own meat, grow mushrooms(thats new but fun), make wine and "stuff", row crop an acre of pumpkins, upkeep flower beds, normal outside stuff like mowing/weed whip, vend at the local farmers market, etc. 

We also plan to re-stock our chickens and ducks this year as well as getting more geese and getting some turkeys.

Do we work from dusk until dawn....no. A big part of farming is planning, planning what will get done when and on what days....realistically. We make a mental list and decide what the most important things are that need done and then we do them. The list does get altered based on time, if we can do these 5 important things today vs 1 important thing in 2 days, we will generally do the 5 things first even if the 1 thing is more needed/important.

Now i'm just rambling.....


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## Mini Horses (Mar 1, 2018)

Yes -- MOST of us do work a job "off the farm".   It is difficult to have a "family farm" now days that can truly support the family, financially.   I am not into hundreds of acres of crops.   Like many, I hope to support the expenses of the animals I keep thru sales of eggs, chickens, goat kids, raised pigs, some excess veggies &/or seasonal ones, having "cost & chemical free" for self and family.  We do it because we LOVE the lifestyle and the essence of sustainable and fulfilling.  Sometimes we do not get everything done at the time we want.  But done, just the same, a little off schedule.  Choices.

That said, I still must support that new tractor, a vehicle, real estate taxes, etc.   Some years I get more than the animals expenses....whoohooo.  It IS possible to make a profit (did it for years with my mini horses) but, at this point I am partly retired and plan to make that fully retired in about 3 yrs.   A few more bills to pay out and I am home full time.    Then, I will increase some farm income but, nothing that will leave millions for my own kids.      I want to enjoy what I earn


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## Pastor Dave (Mar 1, 2018)

Welcome to BYH from the Hoosier state! 

A lot on here have to work full or at minimum part time jobs. Some are recreating themselves after retirement and doing this as a hobby.

My job keeps me mostly here on the property where I can work with the rabbits and make hay in my own time and still do ministry. It's time management. Small farms just don't sustain a family like in the past.

My plan is to sustain the family with meat that I can feed in a pinch without much or any grain products, raise veggies, collect eggs, and get milk from something more manageable than a cow. If things got real tough real fast and there was no electrical grid, how to survive, etc.


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## Baymule (Mar 1, 2018)

I think to sum it all up, we farm because we love it. We farm because we raise good, healthy vegetables, meat and milk for us and our families. We farm because we can, most of the time, cover the expenses of raising our own food, and sometimes we make a little money. We farm because what we raise is so much better quality than what we can buy at a grocery store. Many of us are organic or as close to it as we can because we don't want the poisons that are used in industrial agriculture.  We farm because we are teaching our children and grand children where food REALLY comes from. We farm because we are sharing with our community. We farm because if a SHTF situation arises, we are producing food that can mean the difference between life and death for us, our families, friends and neighbors. We farm because it is as vitally important to us as is breathing. We farm because we must. And we work to support it all......


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## misfitmorgan (Mar 1, 2018)

precisely


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## goats4us (Mar 2, 2018)

Wow, thanks for all your thoughtful answers! I should be able to quit work in a year or two. My husband has a good job but we have a kid in college and are about to put in fencing, barn, etc., plus the old tractor is on its last leg, which is why I need to keep working a while longer. My husband was worried we really couldn't handle more than chickens unless one of us is home full-time, but obviously a lot of you do! I'm anxious to start our herd and you've given me the courage to go for it. Hard work we can do.


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## Baymule (Mar 2, 2018)

Yes, you can do this. Keep us posted on how you are doing.


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## misfitmorgan (Mar 5, 2018)

I wish you the best of luck and hope everything goes to plan!!


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## Latestarter (Mar 5, 2018)

Greetings and welcome. Sorry I missed this thread earlier. When I started with chickens, I was working 6 days a week, sometimes 12-14 hours a day. I'm by myself. I still managed. I'm now fully retired and moved to start a "real" (hobby) farm. Everyone else already covered the basics. If it's something you really want, you'll find a way to make it happen. It won't always be easy or fun, but hopefully those times will outweigh the bad times. Best wishes!


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## 4MFVT (Mar 7, 2018)

We keep 14 dairy goats and a 20-30 layer hens and work full time. I probably put 20 or so hours per week in the barn and maybe another 6 or so making soap and cheese. It does make for a long day. I milk about 3am and barn chores take me an hour and a half to two hours. When I get home from work I milk again, but afternoon chores take only about an hour. I make cheese almost every day. I hang the curd as soon as I get up at 2:30am and then make the next batch before I leave around 6:30am. We make about 20 lbs of soap per week, which you usually do on a Sunday and that takes around 4 hours, including set up and clean up. My wife has a home internet based business (website/graphic designeer) and she handles most of the unmolding, polishing and packaging of the soap, so I am not sure how much time she puts in.

You have to like working with your animals and if you live in a northern climate, you need to be able to do your chores in below zero weather. WInter chores always take longer for me. I do hope to someday farm full time, and that is what helps put in the time now and still work a full time job. I also told my employer when I was hired, that I would need to be home at least every twelve hours to milk my goats, that was ok with them. Some employers may not be so generous.


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## Kiotbabe (Mar 7, 2018)

My husband and i have a small goat farm. We have 8 does, 1 buck. In addition to 4 peacocks, 12 guineas, and 4 chickens, a rooster and a partridge and a pear tree. He works a full-time out of the home job. I run a small in home daycare. 2 kiddos. This allows me to do my daily task with them. Feeding and waterering all my animals usually takes me around an hour. We normally save team task for weekends. This includes immunizations, ear tagging, and worming for kids we sell mainly to 4h kids. Hubby made a head shoot for hoove trimming which has made that task much simpler. Barn clean up is done on the weekends as well. I am able to watch my goats throughout the day every day to see behavior patterns, pecking order, or if one just seems off. This doesn't leave alot of free time on weekends but we figure it is a life choice so we make it work


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## CLSranch (Mar 7, 2018)

Another dual full time family. Mine included me gone for the last 12 wks straight without coming home. A lot of work for the DW. I got rid of the goats but still have horses, mini cattle, multiple chicken coops and a few dogs. Hoping my being gone more means the sooner she can go down to part time.

 Starting small (say 3 goats 1 being a buck) will get you used to taking care of them in general and learn your system while letting you get used to the extra work. It will get easier then you will want more.
  Starting to big you will become overwhelmed and not enjoy it then possibly never mess with them again. Same with a garden which I'm sure will be next on the list.


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## Latestarter (Mar 7, 2018)

Welcome back @Kiotbabe  I hope you mean head "chute" as after a head "shoot", there wouldn't really be need of hoof trimming.   What breed of goats are you raising? Just curious.


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## CLSranch (Mar 7, 2018)

after a head shoot their wouldn't be much need of trimming


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## Latestarter (Mar 7, 2018)

There is the up side that they won't be moving around making the trimming so difficult...


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## Jeanne Sheridan (Mar 7, 2018)

goats4us said:


> We are getting ready to get our goats, but not sure I'm ready to give up my paying job. How many of you juggle a full-time job in addition to raising goats or other livestock? Is someone in your family a full-time farmer? Advice? Opinions? Drawbacks?


Welcome!  I haven't been on this site long but it has been a great resource.  We currently have 24 goats but that number varies depending on sales and births.  We also have a llama to guard them rather than a LGD.  He eats pretty much the same thing as our goats so that cuts out the dog food and we haven't seen coyotes in our pasture since we got him.  We did have two but lost one to an infection from what we think was a cougar attack.  A neighbor lost one of their LGD to cougars this last fall too.  We hope to add pigs, chickens and maybe a cow for milk this summer.  We have 30 acres and 20 of it will be in hay this summer.  We have a deal with a neighbor that he will work it for half the hay. In a normal summer we get 2-3 turns with just rain fall so we will still have more than we need.  We have a big garden and 16 fruit trees so I do a lot of canning, freezing, cider pressing, and dehydrating. I grow a big row of pumpkins, some for us, some for sale in a road side honor stand, and the majority as food for the goats.  We also give them wind fall apples. Until this last fall both my husband and I just worked on our farm, but also keep in mind that we bought an old property that needs a lot of work.  We don't have a mortgage so we can survive on our retirement pay but only with all the food we grow and without many extras.  I'm starting a part time job next week sewing for a company in town that makes letter jackets and my husband is going to be driving a school bus next school year.  That way I'll be home for morning milking and letting the herd out into the bigger pasture before work and taking our daughter to school and we will both be home for the night time chores.  We live in a valley in SW Washington filled with small farms and dairies.  I'd guesstimate that better than half of us work part or full time off the properties.


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## goats4us (Mar 8, 2018)

CLSranch said:


> Another dual full time family. Mine included me gone for the last 12 wks straight without coming home. A lot of work for the DW. I got rid of the goats but still have horses, mini cattle, multiple chicken coops and a few dogs. Hoping my being gone more means the sooner she can go down to part time.
> 
> Starting small (say 3 goats 1 being a buck) will get you used to taking care of them in general and learn your system while letting you get used to the extra work. It will get easier then you will want more.
> Starting to big you will become overwhelmed and not enjoy it then possibly never mess with them again. Same with a garden which I'm sure will be next on the list.


Have done very large garden in years past; it was too much for me last year while working so this year will be only a few items and only enough to eat, no canning. :-(  We were going to start off with 4-5 goats to get our feet wet and hopefully grow from there. I feel for your wife, my husband sometimes has to travel, too. We have a daughter who is a huge help.


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## goats4us (Mar 8, 2018)

Jeanne Sheridan said:


> Welcome!  I haven't been on this site long but it has been a great resource.  We currently have 24 goats but that number varies depending on sales and births.  We also have a llama to guard them rather than a LGD.  He eats pretty much the same thing as our goats so that cuts out the dog food and we haven't seen coyotes in our pasture since we got him.  We did have two but lost one to an infection from what we think was a cougar attack.  A neighbor lost one of their LGD to cougars this last fall too.  We hope to add pigs, chickens and maybe a cow for milk this summer.  We have 30 acres and 20 of it will be in hay this summer.  We have a deal with a neighbor that he will work it for half the hay. In a normal summer we get 2-3 turns with just rain fall so we will still have more than we need.  We have a big garden and 16 fruit trees so I do a lot of canning, freezing, cider pressing, and dehydrating. I grow a big row of pumpkins, some for us, some for sale in a road side honor stand, and the majority as food for the goats.  We also give them wind fall apples. Until this last fall both my husband and I just worked on our farm, but also keep in mind that we bought an old property that needs a lot of work.  We don't have a mortgage so we can survive on our retirement pay but only with all the food we grow and without many extras.  I'm starting a part time job next week sewing for a company in town that makes letter jackets and my husband is going to be driving a school bus next school year.  That way I'll be home for morning milking and letting the herd out into the bigger pasture before work and taking our daughter to school and we will both be home for the night time chores.  We live in a valley in SW Washington filled with small farms and dairies.  I'd guesstimate that better than half of us work part or full time off the properties.


Interesting that you have a guard llama. We were originally going that route, but several people around here who've had them have said they weren't enough so we've been looking at dogs. Glad to hear it's working for you! Maybe we'll keep our options open.


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## farmerjan (Mar 8, 2018)

We use llamas with our sheep.  Much easier than having to worry about different food and because we don't always have the sheep near home, the llamas are essential.  Most fences where we rent will not keep a dog in and we had trouble in the past with "do-gooder" idiot neighbors,  feeding the dogs over the fence and such,  thinking we were not treating them right.  It just didn't work.  The llamas most stay far enough away from, since they will lay their ears back if they don't like the humans near them and people don't want a llama to spit at them.   They have been VERY GOOD at protecting from roaming neighborhood dogs and coyotes.  In fact had one llama that used to stay with one group of cows where I had free range layers.  Was hoping he would help protect the chickens from the foxes and such.  Instead he took it upon himself to take care of the baby calves on the first calf heifers and he was very protective of them when they were little.
We have also used donkeys.  Had one that hated the little lambs but was fine with the older ones.  The other was fine with all the sheep and did a good job of taking care of them with the coyote problem.  It would run down my son's dog if she wasn't on the back of the truck when he went in the field.


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## MaryZoe (Mar 11, 2018)

Hello, I just saw these posts. My husband and I moved to the "country" (relatively speaking in Naples, Florida) about 2 1/2 years ago. Before then we had exactly zero animals/pets but 6 kids at home. We now have exactly zero kids at home, but 2 goats, 2 dogs, 2 cats, 3 mini-donkeys, 3 tortoises, and almost 30 chickens (five of whom are broody at the moment--yikes!). We both work full time jobs and share in the daily chores. We do not expect to make any money from our critters--they are an investment in our future. We want our future grandkids to beg their parents to spend LOTS of time at our place during the summers. So we created our own mini petting zoo. We both look forward to retiring in the next 5-7 years (God willing), but until then, as long as we work together and help each other, it is entirely possible to run a hobby farm with both spouses working. It just takes a lot of support from both parties.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 16, 2018)

Welcome!  My advice is keep your jobs and start small.  My DH worked long hours, mandatory overtime, for years while I worked part time, occasionally full time, raised the kids and ranched.  The old days of running herds on pasture and selling for a big profit died with John Wayne.  My husband's uncle in Kansas farmed 340 acres commercially and still had to work a 9-5 job and this was in the 60's and 70's when farming was much more profitable.  He hooked up lights in his fields so he could plough at night!   Farming is an unreliable source of income unless you are farming 1000s of acres.  With a paycheck you can buy feed, pay the vet, put up fencing, do repairs, etc. without having to sell livestock.  Remember Loretta Lynn's song shoes bought from selling a hog?  Even then her daddy worked in the coal mines!

Farming is very hard work.  What is your health, age, etc.  We did our largest ranching - commercial meat rabbit barn,100 dairy goats (monthly milk test), chickens, hogs, sheep, and of course our horses, when we had 4 lively children to help with the work.  We raised calves for the auction on our milk, sold eggs, rabbit meat, and goats. No mall trips for them but the work was healthy, they enjoyed it, and it taught them a good work ethic and the importance of family.  When we bought this property we had to fence, build barns, complete renovate the house (the doors fell off one if the kitchen cabinets while we were moving in and learn about ranching large stock.  We brought our rabbit businesss with us and I had been raising a large garden fruit trees and canning everything we ate for years.  I even had a small business making fancy pickles and jams which I sold at craft fairs.  It was heavy work before we even took on more ranching.

Start small!  Get used to farming and ranching with less to manage.  You will find that the ranch will take on a life of its own and grow.  Buy a pair of bred does or buy your does from a breeder who will offer stud service.  Bucks
are a whole other problem that you don't need when starting.  They will need separate housing and fencing.  It will be cheaper to pay for stud service from the breeder (check when you buy) than keep a buck until you have at least 10 does to be bred.  Does only produce milk after having their kids so you will find that your herd will increase fast.  If you are raising dairy goats for milk, you will have to milk and bottle feed the kids after heat treating and pasteurizing the milk.

Read all you can on keeping goats - not just the feed store books, but read other publications designed for agriculture students.  If you plan to keep goats on grass, think again, they are browsers and if all you have is grass pasture they will need hay for which you will need a paycheck.

Don't get me wrong - DH and I still have a small herd of sheep, guardian dogs, and are thinking about restarting our rabbitry.  WE LOVE THIS LIFE!  We are older and pretty stove up though and can't wrestle the large stock like we used to.  Luckily our grown sons live with us and do the heavy lifting and catching. 

DON'T GET TOO EXCITED AND OVER BURDEN YOURSELVES.  YOU NEED TO START SMALL AND LEARN ABUT THE SPECIES YOU ARE RAISING.  They don't need constant oversight.  You will learn to recognize problems from the way they come to the feeders, walk, etc.  You will need to learn to give vaccinations, castrate, disbud, draw blood for CAE testing and lots of other fun stuff.  We set broken leg, sutured up cuts, treated prolapses, pulled kids and lambs, and doctored our stock.  The vet is too expensive for routine stuff. 

My last advice is to make sure you realize that ranching is heart breaking too.  Unless these animals are all going to be pets (in which case you should look for a full time job to afford them) you will lose animals, suffer predator losses, and have to make the decision based on cost between vet care or euthanasia for your animals.  Can you do this?  I just spent the cost of a healthy ewe on a ewe I knew l would euthanize just so she could wean her lamb.  I should have out her down and bottle fed the lamb since now I will have another farm call to euthanize her.  I broke my own rules about cost effectiveness since this was one of my oldest ewes, but she had been a good producer and I liked her.  She recovered enough to raise the lamb, but is not doing well so must go down.  She could never have been bred again and since I run my ewes with the ram, I can't let her breed again.  $500 for a moment of feel good but I had the money - what if you don't?  I have been there too. 

Anyway, ranching is a life of ups and downs.  *Too much fun* especially when the kids were young.  If you love it, if it is in your blood, nothing will seem too difficult.  When we were younger, some of our corrals were held together by brightly colored hay ropes - we refer to this as 4-H fencing.    We were exhausted, broke, and pretty happy!  Ranching is in our blood - our great-grandparents, DH grandparents and uncles farmed, my uncle ranched and rode rodeo. 

You have to love it.  Everyone here will help you - listen to everyone who gives you advice.  You don't have to take it but you will learn from it.  Good Luck!


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## goats4us (Mar 16, 2018)

Thanks for your honesty! We do plan to start with 4-5 does and expand from there. I'm a nurse and have no problems giving vaccinations, drawing blood, etc. once someone shows me the right way to do this on a goat vs. a human.  Only one large animal vet here covering a huge area, so thinking we will have to become pretty good at taking care of most things ourselves. Not to mention that the vet bill can easily exceed the cost of the animal. We are getting meat goats so they are not pets, though I know we'll have our favorites that will likely become like one. You go through those tough decisions with any animal; we had to put down our border collie just a couple weeks ago. Not easy, but we know we gave him a good life and take comfort in that. 

My grandfather had 675 acres and managed to make a pretty good living off it, but they were people of few wants and used their money carefully. And I know they had rough times as well. 

My biggest concern when I started this thread was: will the goats be okay with no one at home all day? Do I need to take off when they kid? But between people's answers and my reading I feel like I'm getting a pretty good grip on it and that we're ready. Bought the fencing and staked out the area last weekend, will start digging post-holes tomorrow if the weather cooperates. Still trying to decide what will work best for us in housing. Don't want to spend too much, but want it big enough that we have room to grow. I'm thinking bigger and my husband is thinking small and just build more buildings later when we need them. And it should go up before we actually run the fencing so can't take much longer to decide!


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## Ridgetop (Mar 16, 2018)

The animals will be just fine with you working.  They do not need full time supervision as long as you have adequate fencing, a water supply, and some shelter from weather.  I would recommend some type of guardian animal.  Our preference is a guardian breed dog, although llamas, donkeys and mules are good.  We have cougar here which are the main predator of llamas in South America which we found out right after we adopted a couple of guardian llamas!  .

You are way ahead of where we were when we started since we had to learn all our medical prowess from the ground up.  Luckily we had some great people showing us what to do and giving us information, and hands on training.  You have your heads in the right place with your attitude and training.

Since you are going with meat goats, you will not have to do any milking.  You will just have to check the milk production for the kids.  As far as being home for kidding, I suggest that you get a marking harness with different colored crayons for your buck.  Don't let him have access to the does except at breeding time.  Then you put the harness in him and change the crayon to a different color each week.  When he mounts the doe he will leave the color no her butt and you will know who is bred.  Change the crayon color each week and keep the buck in his harness until you go a month without any does remarking.  Changing the crayon color will ensure that if the doe remarks over a previous color you will catch it.  Make sure to write the marked doe's ear # on your calendar and the date she marked.  Most of the time they mark in the evening so yo should check in the am when you feed.  Once you know the breeding date when she takes, you can use a breeding calendar or just count 5 months and 5 days and you will have a very accurate kidding date for the doe.  It makes life easier because you can bring her into a jug or kidding pen close to the house so you can watch for signs of trouble.  If your barn is far from the house, you can use those security cameras.  They are not too expensive and can be picked up at Costco or Walmart.  No wondering and worrying for weeks when she will kid.  No traipsing out to the furthest field when she kids in bad weather (they love doing this!).  Luckily your guardian dog will not leave her so when you are missing a goat and the dog you will be able to put on your rain clothes and hike out with your flashlight into the fields.  So much fun but it happens to us all.  It also helps because you can watch for signs of stuck kids, etc.  Accurate breeding dates and records will make your life so much easier.  If you want to take time off during kidding time you can but if you buy animals from a herd with few kidding problems it shouldn't be necessary.  Of course, we all like to be on hand to greet our new babies! 

YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE SUCH FUN!  CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR NEW LIFE!


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## goats4us (Mar 16, 2018)

Good advice, thanks!


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## goats4us (May 26, 2018)

Got the goats finally last Saturday. Five females so far, with another coming next month. (A late surprise.) Baptism by fire, or maybe I should say blood. Wednesday after dinner my husband found one of the goats bleeding profusely from her ear. She kept shaking her head so blood was EVERYWHERE! She was covered and we were soon covered. Looked like a heinous crime scene. Had to take her out of the goat pen to treat her because some of the other goats like to "help". Could not get it to stop bleeding and we couldn't find the clotting agent we thought we had. Apparently forgot to replace it after using it all. Tried flour and cornmeal, which were recommended to us. Slowed it but the first time she shook her head it started again just as profusely. (Pools of blood in a matter of seconds.) My DH drove to town for more clotting agent from the 24 hour pharmacy while I held her in my lap applying gentle pressure and keeping her quiet. (For over an hour.) The pressure worked well, and the clotting agent seemed to keep it in check for good. bandaged it all up and duct taped it to her head, which stayed on for more than 12 hours. She seems fine now, but still has a pink tinge to her from the blood. I had tried to wash most of it off so she hopefully wouldn't be too much of a coyote magnate (but by then our whole farm was) but it's not easy to bathe a goat. Here's her picture.




Things we did wrong: ran out of clotting agent and failed to have our supplies (or at least adequate supplies for this kind of emergency) together and organized in one place. Our dogs were also out and we failed to put them away right away. Both puppies. They ended up getting into a fight and had to be pulled apart, had to actually pry one of them's mouth open. Thankfully, neither was really hurt. One emergency was plenty without having to deal with one or more injured dogs. They usually get along but I think all the blood set them off.  

Things that worked well: we put a dog harness on her to handle her. It really help us hold her in place, since we don't have a stantion or stalls yet. It was much easier to hold the harness than hold her. To keep her quiet, I sat in one of those folding canvas lawn chairs with her front legs across my lap. She was standing on her back legs, but not having use of her front ones gave me the advantage. Was much easier to hold her still and applied pressure while talking soothingly. She soon calmed down and stayed quiet so I could easily hold her steady and apply pressure.


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## Mini Horses (May 26, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> Anyway, ranching is a life of ups and downs. *Too much fun* especially when the kids were young. If you love it, if it is in your blood, nothing will seem too difficult. When we were younger, some of our corrals were held together by brightly colored hay ropes - we refer to this as 4-H fencing.  We were exhausted, broke, and pretty happy! Ranching is in our blood - our great-grandparents, DH grandparents and uncles farmed, my uncle ranched and rode rodeo.



So true it hurts.....Yes, start small, it will grow if you love it, otherwise you are overwhelmed at once.   Past 70 & still doing it!!  Broke & happy.     Hey, what else would I be doing?


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## Mike CHS (May 26, 2018)

Corn starch and baking powder are also good to use to stop bleeding and seems to stay on better than flour.  I always used one or the other on my parrots feet when I would clip to much of their nails and I keep some on the side by side to use on myself.

But it sounds like y'all handled the emergency just fine.


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## Latestarter (May 27, 2018)

Grats on finally getting your goats! Sorry it all had to start with an injury. Life goes on though and you got through it!


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 5, 2018)

Well I can’t afford to quit my job. I work 40 to 60 hours a week have 4 goats Two dogs three cats two pigs and 18 chickens. It can be done but I’m worn out. Oh yeah I have a husband and a teenager. That’s probably the reason I’m worn out LOL


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## Hippie hollow (Jun 5, 2018)

Definitely congratulations on your goats. Maybe I Missed a post but what kind of boots did you get? As far as trimming hubs I found between keeping areas of gravel in their fenced area and attaching things like shingles two wooden areas they use help maintain their hooves without trimming. I personally because of this have only had to trim one time and that’s only got them and they have looked great for four years.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 5, 2018)

Congrats on your goats!  First emergency handled just fine - you will be better prepared for next one.  Every time we had a medical emergency I brought in special equipment to deal with it.  Of course, the next emergency was total different!  Keep plenty of vet wrap on hand, iodine wash, alcohol, (we buy it in the gallon size) Alumishield for horses is a good spray n bandage that keeps the flies off open wounds.  Go through the vet section of the livestock catalogs and buy your supplies in advance.  you have goats so you know you will need to give annual vaccinations - buy the disposable 3cc syringes with smaller needles in the box of 100.  Sounds like a lot, but by the time your does produce 2 kids apiece and you have to give at least 2 vaccinations plus the adults annually, it adds up.  With 5 goats (4 does=8kids) you can plan on giving 21 routine vaccinations after kidding season!  That box of 100 syringes doesn't seem so big now.  Especially if you are doing other medical stuff.  Lengths of PVC pipe can be cut for splints, pieces of poultry wire folded and shaped into splints, keep gauze on hand, menstrual pads make good wound padding.  For grinding up meds into drenches, use a coffee grinder, I have an old Water Pic for washing out puncture wounds.  Large syringes can be used as drench guns in a pinch but the ones with a metal tube will hold up for years and are not expensive for small livestock.  Dental floss and a carpet needle can be used to sew up prolapses, Prep H will take down inflammation.  Liquid antibiotic soap is useful for lathering up to reach in and pull kids.  Keep a book on goat birth handy too or copy the pix, put them in a plastic sleeve, and keep with kidding supplies to refresh your mind on how the kids might be tangled in case you have to reach in and untangle or pull kids.  Check out large animal vets too in your area.  If none, get a vet manual for first aid. 

Put everything in a large plastic toolbox and keep it in one place and it will save you a lot of headaches and you will be calmer knowing that you have everything to hand.  Plan for the worst and you will probably never experience it!

MOST IMPORTANT!  Have a couple chairs where you can relax and watch the goat kids play!  Enjoy life!


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## greybeard (Jun 5, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> The old days of running herds on pasture and selling for a big profit died with John Wayne.



You don't have to go that far back. Beef prices on the hoof in 2012-2015 were pretty dang high. It was easy to double your $$ in those years and lots of us did. Buy cheap, run on grass and sell when the market is in a high cycle.


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## goats4us (Jun 5, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> Congrats on your goats!  First emergency handled just fine - you will be better prepared for next one.  Every time we had a medical emergency I brought in special equipment to deal with it.  Of course, the next emergency was total different!  Keep plenty of vet wrap on hand, iodine wash, alcohol, (we buy it in the gallon size) Alumishield for horses is a good spray n bandage that keeps the flies off open wounds.  Go through the vet section of the livestock catalogs and buy your supplies in advance.  you have goats so you know you will need to give annual vaccinations - buy the disposable 3cc syringes with smaller needles in the box of 100.  Sounds like a lot, but by the time your does produce 2 kids apiece and you have to give at least 2 vaccinations plus the adults annually, it adds up.  With 5 goats (4 does=8kids) you can plan on giving 21 routine vaccinations after kidding season!  That box of 100 syringes doesn't seem so big now.  Especially if you are doing other medical stuff.  Lengths of PVC pipe can be cut for splints, pieces of poultry wire folded and shaped into splints, keep gauze on hand, menstrual pads make good wound padding.  For grinding up meds into drenches, use a coffee grinder, I have an old Water Pic for washing out puncture wounds.  Large syringes can be used as drench guns in a pinch but the ones with a metal tube will hold up for years and are not expensive for small livestock.  Dental floss and a carpet needle can be used to sew up prolapses, Prep H will take down inflammation.  Liquid antibiotic soap is useful for lathering up to reach in and pull kids.  Keep a book on goat birth handy too or copy the pix, put them in a plastic sleeve, and keep with kidding supplies to refresh your mind on how the kids might be tangled in case you have to reach in and untangle or pull kids.  Check out large animal vets too in your area.  If none, get a vet manual for first aid.
> 
> Put everything in a large plastic toolbox and keep it in one place and it will save you a lot of headaches and you will be calmer knowing that you have everything to hand.  Plan for the worst and you will probably never experience it!
> 
> MOST IMPORTANT!  Have a couple chairs where you can relax and watch the goat kids play!  Enjoy life!


Lots of good advice! Thanks!


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