# I think my Ewe is in labor! Autumn didnt make it..nor the babies. :(



## justusnak

So, one of the rescues....Pearl...I think is in labor. She went down in the pasture this afternoon....couldnt get up. I called the vet..he did a vag exam..said she is not dialated. Might be toxemia...might be early labor. He was NO HELP! 
I have a pic...tell me...labor!?? I think..YES!
She is on her tummy....looks like leg spasms...panting..grunting...
Can you tell I am new to this!?? LOL


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## justusnak

The ONLY thing he left for me to give her was the glucose. I am going to call him in the morning, and ask about the vitamin B shot. I was reading on that earlier. She is laying on her tummy....and I just came in from checking on her....she has a white gooey stuff slightly draining from her.....area.  She just looks so tired..and weak. I fear the worst.


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## freemotion




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## username taken

You NEED to get someone, vet or farmer, who is experienced with sheep, to look at her. 

First thing that needs to be determined, is whether she is lambing, or whether she is down with preg tox. 

Its not that difficult. Either she is weak and cant get up. Or she is straining and trying to lamb. 

If she isnt lambing, just gone down with preg tox, you need to get a ketosis mixture into her. ANd lots of it. They are usually an oral solution. A milk fever injection for cows will also not go astray. SHe needs feed and water brought to her, and if at all possible she needs to be made to get up and walk around, every hour or so. If she doesnt get up, this needs to continue until she lambs, usually they will get a whole lot better shortly after lambing. But, if she doesnt respond to treatment, and she gets worse before she lambs, it may be necessary to induce her, even if it is too early for the lamb to survive, in order to save the ewe. 

If she is in fact lambing, she needs to have an internal exam to determine if the cervix is open (the cervix is what is important, not the vagina). If not, she needs to be monitored for a little longer, and if she doesnt dilate vet intervention is neccessary. If she doesnt dilate she may need a caesarian. If the cervix is indeed open, the position of the lamb/s needs to be checked. She may have trouble because the lambs are not positioned correctly, and they will need to be manipulated until they can come out. Alternatively, she may just be too weak to push them out, so they may need to be pulled. Certain mineral deficiencies will also cause the ewe not to have strong enough contractions to birth a lamb. 

Anyway, the main thing is, get someone EXPERIENCED to look at this ewe NOW. I cant tell you yay or nay from that picture. You need to determine what is going on with this ewe ASAP and treat accordingly. 

Good luck and keep us informed.


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## jhm47

You need to get her out of the pasture and into a well-bedded barn.  Lying outside on the cold ground will weaken any living thing.  Then, you need to figure out a way to get her up and walking.  She needs to be in an upright position to keep her digestive system working properly.  Give her some very high energy feed (preferably corn).  This sounds like pregnancy toxemia/disease to me.  If so, it can quickly become fatal.  

Indiana should have multiple vets that are experienced in large animals.  Find one, and if necessary, take the ewe to one of them.  Sheep aren't so big that one couldn't be hauled in a van or SUV if that's all that's available.  I wouldn't put her in the back of an open pickup and haul her around in the cold.  

For right now, I'd make sure that she's on her feet and eating well.  Tomorrow is the time for the vet intervention.  Do a google search if necessary and find a qualified vet.  Good luck with her!

FYI:  Pregnancy disease can strike up to 2 - 3 weeks prior to lambing in ewes that are carrying multiple lambs.


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## freemotion

How is she this morning??  Here's another  either way....


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## justusnak

Well, I just talked to my vet. He is on his way out. He is going to check her to see if she is dialated...and if not, he will do a terminal C section. At this point, I dont think we can save the Ewe. She is still down, I cant get her on her feet...she wont drink or eat...and her ears are cold. She wont raise her head...and barely opens her eyes. I am so sad...but, I have to try to at least save the lamb/s


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## justusnak

Well, when the vet got here, Pearl was barely breathing...almost comotose. So he did the C section...delivered 2 beautifull black and white lambs.
The all black one is a male, the spotted one is a female. My son and I worked on them for several minutes. Sadly...they just wouldnt take a breath. We lost them all. Mom and babies. 
What a sad day here on our farm.


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## aggieterpkatie

I'm so sorry to here that. Those lambs were beautiful.  So sorry they didn't make it.


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## username taken

many hugs

sorry it ended this way

I'm curious, what was the verdict? Was the ewe actually lambing when she went down, or did she just go down with preg tox?

I've done a LOT of sacrificial caesars ... and sad to say, in 99% of cases if the ewe hasnt actually started labour, no matter how hard you work on the lambs/kids you cant get them started. If the ewe has started labour, then the young can normally be saved. But is she hasnt started, well their hearts beat, and they might even cry and take a breath or two, but you just cant get them going or keep them going. Its utterly heartbreaking. The last one I did was a doe with triplets, all of which I worked on for half an hour, their hearts beating, taking a gasp every now and then, and occassionally crying, but they all gave up in the end. 

I really feel for you. its a powerful and heartbreaking thing to go through

hugs


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## freemotion

So sad......  extra 

Were they to term?  I've never seen lambs that young, but I would expect them to have more hair if they were to term.....


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## jhm47

Sorry about your loss.  FYI:  An old sheepherder who is no longer with us once told me, "sonny, a sick sheep is a dead sheep, don't forget that, and you'll come out ahead in the long run".  

In my experience with our children's purebred flock, he was right, and it can be heartbreaking.  The sheep were a great way to teach responsibility to our children, and I miss them (both the children and the sheep).


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## justusnak

She was not in labor. It was the preg tox that took her down, and we just couldnt get her back up. Strange how fast it went. She was FINE 2 days ago...eating...drinking...rubbing on my leg for her back rub. then, yesterday she just went down...and that was it. I tried everything I could. The vet said she was close to birthing...maybe a few days. They never took a breath. I even tried mouth to snout...they were just too weak. 
Now I must concentrate on Autumn. She has been dripping white mucus all day...so I put her in a stall...clean dry bedding...warm molasses water....grain..and plenty hay. All I can do now is watch, waite, and pray she is fine.


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## username taken

if it makes you feel any better (probably not), if she wasnt in labour, you really couldnt save those babies. They were so pretty 

I would start Autumn on a preg tox treatment to be safe. Also, if you have her locked in a stall, make sure she gets some exercise otherwise you might find she has the same problems. 

as far as I remember, these sheep were a hair breed, not a wool breed ... those lambs look basically full term to me.


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## justusnak

Yes, they were hair sheep. Katahdins. I hope Autumn has babies just as pretty. Her stall is about 6x8. I am thinking tomorrow I will move her to the south side of the barn. That area is about 10 x 20.  She will be in there alone, but will be able to see the other sheep, and will have more room to move around. This way she can pick her spot to have them...inside.


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## helmstead

They look preterm...and darn it they would have been lovely!  So sorry!

_LOL Just read ALL the posts...I get it, hair sheep, that would explain my hypothesis being wrong..._


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## ksalvagno

I am very sorry for your loss.


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## username taken

lol kate, I read your post and was like huh? how on earth can you say they are prem?? then read the rest of it ...


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## 6 sheep & a llama

I too am sad with you.  Know that you are in our hearts


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## justusnak

Bear Foot Farm said:
			
		

> Sorry you lost them
> Get some Calcium Gluconate to keep on hand
> Make sure they are getting plenty of minerals along with their grain.
> A* LITTLE *molasses can help keep glucose levels up.
> Too much can cause acidocis


They have a mineral block...for sheep...they have a salt block...plenty fresh water...and thier feed...is all stock, for show animals. Has molasses in it....pellets..and corn. There is no copper in the feed...so I just dont know. They have hay all the time....
These Ewes were in bad shape when I rescued them...truely..I tried everything I could think of to get them in the proper condition for lambing. And, they were preggers when I got them.  All I can do now is hope Autumn fairs better.


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## jhm47

They do need a very small amount of copper.  Too much is fatal, and too little is not good either.  Pregnancy toxemia/disease is extremely heartbreaking.  We had it several times, and our children were very discouraged when it happened.  You did nothing wrong that I can see, so do your best with the other ewe, and you likely will have a much better result.  Actually, how could it be worse?


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## Brody's Broodello

So sorry for your loss. You did everything you could. We are dealing with the exact same thing now. Our neighbor has a ewe who is down, right now. I went to check on the new goat kid today for him and found the ewe down. Same thing cervix not dilated. I try to go in for the lambs & couldn't. So i calle the vet. Same thing here, some meds, iv etc. Hoping cervix opens tonight. If not, in the morning I'll be there to help in the Csection. Needless to say, the ewe isn't going to make it. So sad. My neighbor has bred sheep & goats for years, his animals are always in the best of health,sometimes things just happen. The change of weather can cause them to stress & bring on PG toxemia.  I hope the next ewe makes out better,good luck.


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## username taken

Brody's Broodello, make sure if you do the caesar on the ewe, you give her a shot to induce labour first. You will have a much higher chance of success if you do this, as opposed to just doing it before the ewe goes into labour.


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## justusnak

So I went out this morning to check on Autumn. This is what I saw. PLEASE tell me its NOT a prolaps!! Its been 5 hrs, and still the same!


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## aggieterpkatie

How is she acting? Is she eating? Is she straining like she's having contractions?  

Is the bag red?  If it's the water bag, it should be whitish.  Do you see any feet inside the sac?


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## justusnak

She is down...she wont eat or drink....the bag is pink, no feet, like muscle. UGH! I called the vet....waiting on them now.


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## aggieterpkatie

justusnak said:
			
		

> She is down...she wont eat or drink....the bag is pink, no feet, like muscle. UGH! I called the vet....waiting on them now.


When was the last time she ate?  Can you wash the prolapse (sounds like that's what it is from you saying it's like muscle) with some betadine or iodine solution mixed with water and push it back inside?  

If she's not eaten lately, get some propylene glycol.  Call the vet and tell him you suspect preg toxemia.  

Don't let your vet rush into a c-section if you don't think she's in labor.


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## justusnak

She is pushing...like she might be in labor...but not sure. I wont let them do a c section...cant go through that again...not now! 
I tried to get her up....she tries, then lays back down.  DANGIT...this is so frustrateing!!


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## aggieterpkatie

justusnak said:
			
		

> She is pushing...like she might be in labor...but not sure. I wont let them do a c section...cant go through that again...not now!
> I tried to get her up....she tries, then lays back down.  DANGIT...this is so frustrateing!!


Sometimes when they prolapse, they can strain like they're in labor, because they feel the prolapse and want to push it out.  

How is her udder?  Did she bag up recently (like in the last day or two)?  

You need to get a prolapse harness.  They can lamb past it. She's going to keep trying to push the prolapse back out.  

Definitely wash it and push it back in, and see if you can get a prolapse harness as soon as possible.  Sheepmansupply.com is a great site, and if you call them they could probably overnight one to you.  Perhaps your vet has one?  Definitely get some propylene glycol ASAP.  It won't hurt to give her some of that as well.


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## helmstead

Oh, honey!  

Yup, looks like a prolapse, which is no big deal compared to being down and not eating.  I agree, need to treat CMPK injectable as soon as possible - 

Prayers your way...


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## aggieterpkatie

And you said they were getting an all-stock feed. Is there a reason you're not feeding sheep feed?  I'd switch them to that. I am not a big fan of all-stock feed, because different animals have different nutrition requirements.


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## justusnak

I had them on sheep feed for a while, but when it turned so cold, it was reccomended to put them on all stock, for the molasses.
Not good!??? 
I will go get sheep feed tomorrow, when the roads are cleared up!


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## aggieterpkatie

justusnak said:
			
		

> I had them on sheep feed for a while, but when it turned so cold, it was reccomended to put them on all stock, for the molasses.
> Not good!???
> I will go get sheep feed tomorrow, when the roads are cleared up!


Who recommended that?  I say leave them on sheep feed.


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## justusnak

I will go tomorrow and get the sheep feed. I hope I am not too late!


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## aggieterpkatie

justusnak said:
			
		

> I will go tomorrow and get the sheep feed. I hope I am not too late!


It's ok, just take a deep breath.  You have worked so hard for these girls!  Sometimes sheep just have issues, no matter what they eat.  We've had prolapses and preg toxemia in a few sheep, sometimes things just happen.  

If your vet does come out, just ask if he has propylene glycol you can buy (it's easy to give, just get a big syringe and give it orally) and ask if he happens to have a prolapse retainer.  If not, maybe your local farm supply store has one, or maybe you can order one online an overnight it or something.  

The big thing to focus on now is getting her some energy!


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## jhm47

This is not a total prolapse---YET.  It is a precursor to a prolapse, and if you can get her on her feet, it will go back in on it's own.  She needs to be kept on her feet as much as possible.  That will help to keep her innards where they belong, and it will also help her digestive system going better.  When they lie down for extended periods of time their digestive systems slow down, and eventually stop.  Then the preg tox sets in with a vengeance.  

If a C-section is needed, by all means do it.  Either that, or have her put down.  Letting her die a slow death should not be an option.  I doubt that you will be able to save the lambs either way, but why make the ewe suffer?


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## aggieterpkatie

jhm47 said:
			
		

> If a C-section is needed, by all means do it.  Either that, or have her put down.  Letting her die a slow death should not be an option.  I doubt that you will be able to save the lambs either way, but why make the ewe suffer?


Is this a reference to my post about not letting the vet rush into a c-section?  I just meant that if she's not in labor, he shouldn't go and do a c-section unless it's really needed.  Of course I wouldn't let the ewe suffer, but I wouldn't rush into a c-section without trying other things first.


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## ksalvagno

A prolapse can't happen unless the babies are out. The uterus can't come out before the babies. It is a good thing you have the vet coming though because it does sound like some type of dystocia. I hope it all works out ok and everyone is fine.


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## helmstead

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> A prolapse can't happen unless the babies are out. The uterus can't come out before the babies. It is a good thing you have the vet coming though because it does sound like some type of dystocia. I hope it all works out ok and everyone is fine.


Yes they can, and do, occur prior.  It's somewhat common in goats, esp goats carrying large litters.


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## aggieterpkatie

helmstead said:
			
		

> ksalvagno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A prolapse can't happen unless the babies are out. The uterus can't come out before the babies. It is a good thing you have the vet coming though because it does sound like some type of dystocia. I hope it all works out ok and everyone is fine.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they can, and do, occur prior.  It's somewhat common in goats, esp goats carrying large litters.
Click to expand...

Yes, and this is a vaginal prolapse, not a uterine prolapse.



Any updates on the ewe? How's she doing?


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## justusnak

The vet came out and did a vag exam. She is not, or was not dialated at all. The vet could not feel a lamb at all. It is definately a prolaps. She said Autumn has a 10% chance. Her temp was not registering, she was so cold. She reccomended putting her down. 

I couldnt. So, she got a shot of pennicillan...and Vit B...and orally calcium, dextrose, and..soething else. We carried her to the heat lamp. At this time, she was shivvering so hard, I just knew she was dieing. I had the blanket under and over her....and was under the blanket with her with the heat lamp, trying to raise her body temp. Her eyes were closed, head down....breathing hard. 

I just came in to tell you after 2 hrs under the heat......she stopped shivering....raised her head...and stood up!!!!!
Her prolaps went back in!!!!!!
She was pawing the ground when I came in to try to warm my feet. I am headed back out there in a few seconds.
Say a prayer....please....that she pulls through this!


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## aggieterpkatie

justusnak said:
			
		

> The vet came out and did a vag exam. She is not, or was not dialated at all. The vet could not feel a lamb at all. It is definately a prolaps. She said Autumn has a 10% chance. Her temp was not registering, she was so cold. She reccomended putting her down.
> 
> I couldnt. So, she got a shot of pennicillan...and Vit B...and orally calcium, dextrose, and..soething else. We carried her to the heat lamp. At this time, she was shivvering so hard, I just knew she was dieing. I had the blanket under and over her....and was under the blanket with her with the heat lamp, trying to raise her body temp. Her eyes were closed, head down....breathing hard.
> 
> I just came in to tell you after 2 hrs under the heat......she stopped shivering....raised her head...and stood up!!!!!
> Her prolaps went back in!!!!!!
> She was pawing the ground when I came in to try to warm my feet. I am headed back out there in a few seconds.
> Say a prayer....please....that she pulls through this!


That is wonderful news!!!!  I'm going to PM you.


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## justusnak

I forgot to add....dureing all this, my son called me....my DIL is due in March....her water broke this morning, and they rushed her to the hospital. Dureing this snowstorm!! I am waiting on news from them still! PLEASE say a prayer for my DIL!!


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## aggieterpkatie

justusnak said:
			
		

> I forgot to add....dureing all this, my son called me....my DIL is due in March....her water broke this morning, and they rushed her to the hospital. Dureing this snowstorm!! I am waiting on news from them still! PLEASE say a prayer for my DIL!!


Sending good thoughts for her as well!!


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## ksalvagno

Not trying to dispute anything but how can a uterus come out before the kids?

I had this discussion with my vet last year and she said that a uterus can't come out if there is a cria inside.


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## helmstead

Vaginal or rectal prolapse - not uterine...due to internal pressure.


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## ksalvagno

That makes sense. Thanks!

Good luck with your ewe and your Daughter in law. I sure hope all goes well.


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## justusnak

Well....when I came inside last..she was up, and pawing at the hay. I went back out...and she was down again..there was a bloody mucus coming from her vag. area. She pushed a few times...nothing. I cant stay out there. This winter storm is getting bad!! I dont know what to do! I looked...no lamb sticking out.


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## ksalvagno

Can sheep get uterine torsions? Is she actually trying to push?

Unfortunately, it sounds like she still needs the vet. I will say a prayer for her.


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## justusnak

She is trying to push, about 10 minutes apart. She and I are both worn out. The vet checked her earlier...said she was not dialated...and she could not feel a lamb past the cervix. I just dont know!!!!!


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## ksalvagno

My experience is with alpacas so I'm not sure this would be true in sheep but if that were an alpaca, more than likely they have a uterine torsion. But like I said, I'm not sure that that would be true for sheep.


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## justusnak

Well, she does have fluids coming out...and I can see pink in there..when she pushes. Just not the bag I would expect to see. :/


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## ksalvagno

If fluids are coming out, then she isn't twisted.


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## justusnak

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> If fluids are coming out, then she isn't twisted.


Well, thats a good thing...I am headed out to check on her again..wish me luck, and say a prayer. 
My son just called. They are rushing my DIL in for emergency C section. The baby's heart rate is dropping.


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## aggieterpkatie

justusnak said:
			
		

> ksalvagno said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If fluids are coming out, then she isn't twisted.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, thats a good thing...I am headed out to check on her again..wish me luck, and say a prayer.
> My son just called. They are rushing my DIL in for emergency C section. The baby's heart rate is dropping.
Click to expand...

Good luck to your son and DIL!


THere is a condition called ringwomb where the cervix won't dilate. It's possible to dilate manually, but I'd be SURE she's in labor first.  Does she look bagged up?  Can you get us more pictures?

Have you seen this site ?  There's a little info on ringwomb toward the bottom.  YOu'll not likely get a vet out at this hour, especially if it's storming.


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## freemotion




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## big brown horse




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## Beekissed

Here is a great link about rectal prolapse:

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/rectalprolapse.html


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## Brody's Broodello

username taken said:
			
		

> Brody's Broodello, make sure if you do the caesar on the ewe, you give her a shot to induce labour first. You will have a much higher chance of success if you do this, as opposed to just doing it before the ewe goes into labour.


Well the vet came out today, no change on the ewe. So we tried to save the lambs. Only one was alive but never took a breath. The ewe's cervix never dilated, and she was put down. She had toxemia. Poor thing, never had a chance.


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## helmstead

I went through ringwomb with my doe, Jewel...and it wasn't anything like this...but I agree, vet and probably c section time.  

Prayers to your DIL and son!  My gosh, what a trial...


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## justusnak

Oh Brody, I am so sorry for your neighbor. I DO know what they are going through.


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## aggieterpkatie

Any update, Justusnak?  And how's the DIL?


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## aggieterpkatie

Beekissed said:
			
		

> Here is a great link about rectal prolapse:
> 
> http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/rectalprolapse.html


That's great info, but this is a vaginal prolapse.


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## justusnak

Well, I went out this morning, and Autumn was takeing her last few breaths. I tried to go inside and retrieve the babies. I could not get past the cervix. It was almost like it was sewn shut! I pushed around on her tummy...the babies were not moveing. They didnt make it either. I dont know how many are in there, I just cant bring myself to cut her open and see...no need too. This is not a good day either. 
I am now wondering if I even should try to raise sheep. This is so hard...and Maybe I am not cut out to raise them? Maybe I will sell my Shetlands...and go a different rout...maybe dexter cattle? I dont know...my head is spinning...and I cant think straight right now.


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## ksalvagno

I'm so sorry for your loss on Autumn. Raising livestock is hard and there can be a lot of heartache involved. 

Congratulations on your granddaughter!


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## aggieterpkatie

justusnak said:
			
		

> Well, I went out this morning, and Autumn was takeing her last few breaths. I tried to go inside and retrieve the babies. I could not get past the cervix. It was almost like it was sewn shut! I pushed around on her tummy...the babies were not moveing. They didnt make it either. I dont know how many are in there, I just cant bring myself to cut her open and see...no need too. This is not a good day either.
> I am now wondering if I even should try to raise sheep. This is so hard...and Maybe I am not cut out to raise them? Maybe I will sell my Shetlands...and go a different rout...maybe dexter cattle? I dont know...my head is spinning...and I cant think straight right now.


I'm so sorry!    You just can't catch a break.  Don't let this deter you from raising sheep.  Just find someone in your area that you can go to for questions, a possible breeder or something?  And when you're starting out with healthy sheep and not rescuing, it's much easier.  Just use this time to read read read and everything will be much better next time!


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## freemotion

Yes, please remember that you rescued these girls, and the damage was already done.  Just know that you gave them a few weeks of a very good life, well-fed, warm, and well-loved, something they wouldn't have had if you hadn't rescued them.  The best we can do is give them that and hope it is enough after a life of neglect.  It often is not.

I lost a gorgeous buckling last year from a rescued doe, and I am grateful the doe made it, but it was touch and go.  So I do have an inkling of what you are going through.  And the guilt and panic.  It will fade, but not go away.  WhatifWhatifWhatif.....  But the bottom line is, someone else is responsible for harming your ewes and my doe, and we gave them peace and rest and happiness for a time.  

It is ok to get more sheep.  It will be healing for you to have healthy ewes and healthy lambs.  It is also ok to go into a different direction.  It is ok to grieve and cry over your ewes and lambs, too.    Even the ones you never got to see.


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## no nonsense

I would say, don't forget about breeding sheep, just forget about working with rescues. There's enough difficulty in breeding normal, healthy stock. Why ask for more trouble, expense and heartache by brining in animals which already have probems? You'll have enough of your own, and it's not only with sheep. You'll have ups and downs no matter what you decide to breed, cattle, dogs, goldfish. Mostly, with healthy animals, the benefits outweigh the detriments. With rescues, it seems the other way around.


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