# Puppies Everywhere -- Oh Dear!!! The last One



## babsbag

I was afraid to post anything until I was sure she was bred, but it looks like we are having puppies in a few weeks. This will be her second liter. 

Mom (her name is Sigume) is an anatolian/pyr./akbash/ovcharka mix and Dad (Buddy) is a pyr/maremma. My dogs have been with the goats since they were born and have never chased, nipped, or played with any of the adults or kids. I have been lucky in that regard. They have always had each other, so that is good.

I won't say they are chicken proof. I have lost a few. I have learned that new birds must be introduced slowly, in a confined pen, and then they seem to be fine. Chickens that fly into the pasture unexpectldy better fly out or their time may be short. But for the most part the dogs live with about 50 chickens and there are seldom problems. I have worked on that with them and will be much stricter with puppies this year when they want to "play" with chickens. Mom may tolerate it, but I won't. 

I am excited to see what we have this year. Last year we had 9.

Here is Sigume with one of her new charges last year. The doe was busy having triplets so I guess the doeling thought Siggie looked like a good surrogate. Sigume finished cleaning her off.






And here is Buddy with one of his. He was only about 8 months old when that picture was taken. He is 2 now.


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## Southern by choice

That is exciting!

We have the same issues with the chickens  the worst part is poultry is my main business on the farm.
I can't get too mad because hawks are such an issue here that the dogs are just seeing a bird that doesn't belong... all they know is the "bird" being a hawk or chicken doesn't belong here.

So, does this mean we will get lots of pictures?


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## Alice Acres

Good luck with the whelping!


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## CocoNUT

Beautiful photos! I love the little baby with your female! Oh...if ONLY! 

Good luck with the whelping as well...cant' wait to see photos of all the puppies!


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## Pearce Pastures




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## babsbag

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> That is exciting!
> 
> We have the same issues with the chickens  the worst part is poultry is my main business on the farm.
> I can't get too mad because hawks are such an issue here that the dogs are just seeing a bird that doesn't belong... all they know is the "bird" being a hawk or chicken doesn't belong here.
> 
> So, does this mean we will get lots of pictures?


I hope to get lots of pictures. If she decides to be on time with the pups I should be home from work. The advantage of working for a school.

I didn't have any problems with chicken killing until the dogs were about 9 months old, and then it was about 3 birds over a few weeks and that is when I put an electic collar on them for the first time. It seemed to work. No more problems until the puppies came and left. Right after I sold the last one last year I lost a few more birds. That is when I realized that the dogs don't like new birds in their field. I lost about 6 pullets before I figured that out, but in the meantime I went back to the collar for a few days.

The last problem was a guinea that got up on the wrong side of the fence one morning and then a pullet that did the same. I have a few birds that don't live in the pasture or the coop and the dogs just don't see them as thiers. I wish they would just learn that chickens are ok, no matter what side of the fence they sleep on but that might just be asking for too much.

I will be much stricter with puppies this year. If I catch them looking at a chicken with a playful eye they will get in trouble. May sound mean, but many of my pups went to chicken homes, so I want them to be on the right track from the start.

They will be about 8 weeks old when our first kids are born this year so that should be fun too.


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## Southern by choice

There is truly something about a LGD!

I've met a few people who hated theirs and I'm always shocked. Usually it's people who really never researched what a LGD is/does, or people who really should have never owned one to begin with. 

Glad there are so many of us on here that really love ours! The ups/downs and stubbornness are just part of the world of LGD's!

I love puppy pics so I will have a watchful eye Babsbag! 

and yes..I think we expect a bit too much with the poultry sometimes... :/   Most pups hit that chicken stage as a late pup, not at 2-3 months. 5,7,9 yep...well I guess 6 & 8 too!


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## babsbag

CocoNUT said:
			
		

> Beautiful photos! I love the little baby with your female! Oh...if ONLY!
> 
> Good luck with the whelping as well...cant' wait to see photos of all the puppies!


I have been so lucky with my dogs, being a first time LGD owner it could have been a disaster. I did not take the hands off approach, even though my female had not been handled at all when I got her at 4 months. She was a little slow in trusting me and that was hard on me.  I love my dogs, and they love me and I have them as much for my protection as do for the goat's. My husband is gone during the week and the barn is a ways from the house and I am afraid of the dark. Before dogs it was all I could do to leave the house after dark and I get home after dark so that was not working. The dogs make me feel safe; it they aren't barking, life is good.

The female loves everyone and is slow to bark. When she barks, I listen. Buddy on the other hand is a big chicken and is cautious around all people but family. He barks at falling stars, and the moon, and the sun. But I love him to death and have no doubt that he would protct me to the end.

They have different ways of interacting with the goats too. Sigume is totally submissive to them. My older does used to butt her as they didn't like dogs. Her way of countering their offensive is to role over on her back and submit; would and does scare me to death, but I guess they speak a language as they are now friends.

Buddy on the other hand is a little afraid of the older goats and when they come at him he will trun and bark at them until they back off. My friend that has had LGDs for years says that he within his right to protect himself. He never shows them any aggression until they start it. If they leave him alone he ignores them.

Buddy will go deep in the pasture and bark at whatever threat is there, Sig will usually stay with the herd and I have actually seen her move the kids into the inner pasture when Buddy is really hot about something. It is amazing to watch them work. I can't imagine my farm without them.


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## poorboys

CONGRATS, THEY ARE SO MUCH FUN


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## babsbag

Pups are due on Saturday. This is more nerve wracking than kidding. I hope she whelps on time as I have to go back to work on Monday. Hopefully she hasn't been talking to the goats about the "doe" code.


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## Southern by choice

so are you going to take a guess??? 5,8? How many boys/girls?


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

*I am in California too. Are you looking for homes/ selling them? I am in need of some LGD's. *


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## babsbag

Last year she had 9 pups, 2 girls, 7 boys. 

This year I am guessing 7 pups as she does not look as big. I am seriously hoping that she has a few more girls this time. I have one spoken for already. I didn't have any problems finding homes for any of the pups last time, but 4 girls and 3 boys would be nice.

When I used to raise Dalmatians I would take the dam in for x-rays at about 7 weeks and get a count of how many pups she had so I would know when to stop worrying. I don't have that luxury any more so I just have to be patient. Last year we thought she was done at 7 and I went out a few hours later and there were two more. Can't they just give us a sign that says they are all done? 


WhiteMountainsRanch, I see that you say So. CA. What part of CA exactly to you call south? I am pretty far north, 2 hours No. of Sacramento. But yes, the pups will be for sale. I sell them for 200.00.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

*I am very close to the Mexican border so it would definitely be a road trip! I really need some LGD's but they are nearly impossible to find down here. Do you sell them at 8 weeks old? I wonder about shipping on a plane? May be cheaper than gas!*


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## babsbag

I do sell them at 8 weeks, and not any earlier. Some people last year wanted them at 6 wks and I wouldn't let them go. I think the longer they can stay with mom the better they will learn their job. At 8 weeks I should have some kids on the ground so that is nice too, the pups will have some kids to interact with and I don't have to worry about the older does being mean to the pups. It should be a busy time around here.

I am going to do everything I can this year to curtail the chicken interest early on. I may even put them in a dog kennel with some chickens (supervised of course) just so I can use the NO word a little more effectively. I believe that needs to be imprinted sooner rather than later if they are going to be around fowl. My male runs throuh the chickens all the time on his way to other places; I think he likes to watch them scatter. I have never had him touch one but he sure puts the flock in an uproar when they are in his path. It is rather commical to watch.

It would be a road trip for sure. Might put a message out on some of the dairy forums and see if anybody is transporting goats that might have room for a puppy.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

babsbag said:
			
		

> It would be a road trip for sure. Might put a message out on some of the dairy forums and see if anybody is transporting goats that might have room for a puppy.


*Good idea!!!! I will see if I can find some California dairy forums!!!*


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## babsbag

Just took mama dog's temp and it is 99.5

Looks like puppies in the next 24 hours.  

She ate dinner willingly tonight so I would guess that she is still a few hours out, but I will be making the midnight trip to the barn to check on her. I hope she likes her whelping nest, but do they ever use the place we make them?


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## bonbean01




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## WhiteMountainsRanch

babsbag said:
			
		

> Just took mama dog's temp and it is 99.5
> 
> Looks like puppies in the next 24 hours.
> 
> She ate dinner willingly tonight so I would guess that she is still a few hours out, but I will be making the midnight trip to the barn to check on her. I hope she likes her whelping nest, but do they ever use the place we make them?


*
Yay!  Can't wait to see pics!!!*


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## Stubbornhillfarm

Best wishes!  Can't wait to see pics.


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## Southern by choice

Well???????


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## heathen

AWWW I wish I was closer Good luck


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## Shelly May

24 hrs???????????


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## EllieMay




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## Baymule

Lurker-in-waiting-too!!


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## bonbean01




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## yankee'n'moxie

ANYTHING YET??


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## Southern by choice

she's due today right? or is it the 5th?

duh.... it says right on the post! silly me


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## babsbag

So after doing some reading and realizing once again that my memory stinks...it is temps below 98 not 100 that sets the stage for 24 hour or less whelping. So after checking on her on and off all night we are still waiting.

Last night she wouldn't let me take the temp without really acting like she was in distress so I just let her be. I guess she listened to those darn does afterall. The doe code even rules in dogs.


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## babsbag

Patiently waiting...NOT.

Her milk has come in and she dug a nest last night. I have moved her to the place that *I* have chosen for her to have the pups and she is staying put. She growled at my male LGD when he came into her space so I am thinking it will be tonight. Of course she is waiting until it is cold and dark and I am supposed to be sleeping. I have to go back to work tomorrow after two weeks off so she is just wanting to mess up my night. Darn dog.


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## bonbean01




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## Ownedby3alpacas

bonbean01 said:
			
		

>


X2


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## babsbag

First pup is here. Male. Black with white paws and tail tip. 

Sleeping in the barn tonight. 

Pictures will come in the morning.  I knew she would wait until night time.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch




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## greenbean

Congrats!!!   Can't wait to see pics!


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## babsbag

4 pups so far but i am sure there are more. 3 boys. Last year she had 9 pups and only 2 girls. Looks like it might be a repeat. One girl is spoken for already so at least she filled the order 

We have all colors. White, brown, and black;  makes it fun


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## that's*satyrical

Waiting for pics....


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## Shelly May

x2


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

*Yes pics!!! *


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## babsbag

I went to bed at 2:30 AM, thought she was done. This morning she has 2 more, so a total of 9. 

6 boys, 3 girls. Girls are either white or light tan like mom. Pictures in a minute as soon as I get them off my phone. I had to come to work today so of course I am a worried mom, but a friend is going to check on her in a while.

While this is not my first time with LGD pups it is a little cold outside, at least for me. Low 40s at night and 50s in the day. I have her in a barn of sorts but there is open ventilation areas so not heated at all. She is up off the ground with straw for bedding and straw bales around her for some protection from the elements. She is also in a wading pool, makes a great whelping box. I have a heat lamp on her but it is about 5 feet above her. I lost a hen house to a fire last year and while it might not have been the heat lamp, I am very paranoid of those things so no way to mount it lower and make me feel safe.

I saw something online that says the whelping nest should be 85 degrees. Does anybody raising LGD pups have them in 85 degree boxes? The only thing I can think of is getting a heating pad like they use for plants in a green house and put it under the wading pool and MAYBE heat the floor. 

Advice please.


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## babsbag

These aren't the best but it is hard to get good pictures with flash at night. Hopefully I can get some individual ones when my son is around to hold them for me as I take the picture. 

There are only 7 in the picture, as I was done, and she wasn't...surprise surprise. The last two born are white as well.  Dad's color rules this liter.


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## Southern by choice

Plenty of straw and she will be fine. If she finds a better spot she will just move the pups to where she feels more suitable. Don't worry.


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## CocoNUT




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## babsbag

Thanks. Last year is was October and much much warmer and years ago the Dalmatians were always in the house. The pups feel warm, but they whimper so much when they are looking for a teat that it is hard to tell if they are just being pups or if they are in distress. I have never had to consider the weather before this time.


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## Shelly May

ADORABLE SIMPLE ADORABLE!!!!!!


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## babsbag

I have been fighting fleas and losing. Usually by this time of year my outdoor dogs have no fleas, but not this year. I HATE using any of the topical flea stuff, but I do it, sparingly. However I was paranoid about using it on the dam when she was pregnant. I know they say it won't hurt her or the unborn pups but I was still nervous about doing it. Now she is paying for my paranoia.

The pups are 5 days old and I finally used the flea treatment on the dam. But she has a spot right above her tail that she has chewed quite a bit. The skin isn't broken yet, but the fur is getting pretty thin so I know she is chewing on it.

I need some ideas on how to relieve her itch without exposing the puppies to a poison. She has never had a real problem with fleas until this fall.


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## BrownSheep

Vegetable oil will suffocate the fleas


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

*Not sure how well it works, but I've heard that you can try tea tree oil extract or shampoo. *


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## babsbag

I make doggie soap with tea tree oil in it and my customers love it. But poor mama has never had a bath so I am not sure she would be too happy. I am more concerned about the "hot spot" she is making by chewing at the base of her tail. I finally gave in and put the flea killer meds on her so hopefully the acutal fleas will be gone. But is there anything I can put on her sore spot to make that better? Maybe I should just get some of that Bitter Apple spray and put it on there so she will just stop chewing on it. 

I am going to take a flea comb out there tomorrow and see what I find. I don't know if the spot flea treatment actually kills the flea as it bites the dog or if it just stops the reproduction cycle of the flea and it can keep on biting.

The vegetable oil is a good idea for killing the fleas that I see. I am going to put some in a syringe and see if I just drop it on the flea if it kills it. At least I know it is safe.

Last year we had no problems with fleas. Always something.

The puppies are doing great. Getting fat already.


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## BrownSheep

Maybe some bag balm? It would soothe while deterring chewing.


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## redtailgal

There are several things you can do but my favorite quick trick for making a dog leave something alone is:

vaseline rubbed on the spot with a little cayenne or lemon juice sprinkled over the top or even a small dab of vicks vapor rub mixed into the vaseline.

As for the healing, just keep it clean and lubricated.  Vaseline or oil (olive oil works good and is more readily absorbed by the skin than veggie oil) will help soften that skin, lessening the itch and giving it a quicker heal.

In the future, you can take oranges, cut them into quarters and place them in your crockpot on low for overnight.  The juice and oil will simmer out.  Strain this juice and oil thru  a cheesecloth  (squeeze it to get it all) leaving you with a strong and sticky juice. Dilute this 1 part orange "stuff" and 1 part water for a flea spray (be generous on the feet, gentials and "armpits" and around the ears).  You can spray this on all the bedding as well.  It's safe to use on newborn puppies, too (I used it on my Dobermans when I was raising them)    Also mix it full strength with whatever shampoo you may use.....1 part shampoo and 1 part orange "stuff".  You can also rub a little of the orange "stuff" full strength directly on the hot spot.  It will aid in disinfecting, and will moisturize the area a little, as well as prevent any more fleas from chewing on that area.

Dont forget to remove her collar and clean it.  Fleas will often lay eggs in the collars.  I drop a nylon collar in boiling water for about 5 minutes and then let it cool.  A leather collar gets thoroughly coated in python dust, beaten clean, then oiled with a good leather oil.

Plastic swimming pools make wonderful whelping boxes!  That's what I used, lol.  As for heating the box, yeah, technically the box should stay around 85 degrees for the first few days.  I never worried with it (although my dobes were born and raised inside).  If the mother is accustomed to being outside, she will know what to do.  Provide her with plenty of clean straw or hay (keep it clean!) and you will be amazed at how quickly those babies learn to tunnel into it.  Their mother will teach them by covering them.  So long as they are not in a draft, they should be fine.  If you get worried, take a blanket and/or a tarp and make a "cave" style cover over the top of the whelping box.


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## ragdollcatlady

I use the traditional ADVANTAGE (name brand only) product for flea control. It has worked for years and I only need to use it occasionally now. It has had really good results and the studies were some of the safest with regards to ingestion (even in infant animals). I think they found reproductive problems and stuff at 400 times the likely, accidental, oral ingestion amount. I have queenslands that are very sensitive to chemicals and I have to be careful, even with Advantage, so I am very unhappy that most places around here are changing to the "new and improved" product with more chemicals.......but I digress.... 

For the hot spot, if pups aren't really in that area yet ( I think you mentioned her rump), I would use a little nu stock. It takes the redness and itch out like magic, in just an hour or 2. It is a miracle worker for my hot spot susceptible, old, chow mix. Once I put that on, he stops biting and the itch seems relieved almost right away. The redness disappears fast.

Congrats on your pups! Barrels of energy are just around the corner!


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## babsbag

redtailgal said:
			
		

> In the future, you can take oranges, cut them into quarters and place them in your crockpot on low for overnight.  The juice and oil will simmer out.  Strain this juice and oil thru  a cheesecloth  (squeeze it to get it all) leaving you with a strong and sticky juice. Dilute this 1 part orange "stuff" and 1 part water for a flea spray (be generous on the feet, gentials and "armpits" and around the ears).  You can spray this on all the bedding as well.  It's safe to use on newborn puppies, too (I used it on my Dobermans when I was raising them)    Also mix it full strength with whatever shampoo you may use.....1 part shampoo and 1 part orange "stuff".  You can also rub a little of the orange "stuff" full strength directly on the hot spot.  It will aid in disinfecting, and will moisturize the area a little, as well as prevent any more fleas from chewing on that area.


I will have to try this, the older I get the more I hate using chemicals on my animals. The spray sounds like something I can mist on the pups right now and not really get them wet like a bath would. It is just too cold for that.

Has anyone used vetericyn on hotspots?  (I have some in the cupboard). I looked at her this morning and it is starting to look a like it might be getting infected. I guess now that she can reach that spot, something she couldn't do when pregnant, she is giving it a pretty good chewing. 

Not sure what nu stock is, I will have to look that one up.


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## pridegoethb4thefall

Vetericyn is nothing more than water with bleach. I looked up the chemical makeup of it... its basically bleach. A caustic, unstable chemical. Its (vetericyn) also getting flak from the FDA for its claims and labeling. Doesn't even really promote healing- the chemicals help kill bacteria etc (again, bleach will do that...), and anything that is not actually infected will naturally, eventually heal its self with time.

If you are going away from chemicals, be sure to read labels and consider homeopathic remedies. Maybe your dog needs a dish collar to keep her from chewing?

A lot of hot spots are actually infected with bacteria or fungus- only a vet can prescribe the 'good' (effective) antibiotics for those. At least, that was my experience when my dog had a few hot spots that didn't respond to anything I bought OTC.


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## Pearce Pastures

pridegoethb4thefall said:
			
		

> Vetericyn is nothing more than water with bleach. I looked up the chemical makeup of it... its basically bleach. A caustic, unstable chemical. Its (vetericyn) also getting flak from the FDA for its claims and labeling. Doesn't even really promote healing- the chemicals help kill bacteria etc (again, bleach will do that...), and anything that is not actually infected will naturally, eventually heal its self with time.
> 
> If you are going away from chemicals, be sure to read labels and consider homeopathic remedies. Maybe your dog needs a dish collar to keep her from chewing?
> 
> A lot of hot spots are actually infected with bacteria or fungus- only a vet can prescribe the 'good' (effective) antibiotics for those. At least, that was my experience when my dog had a few hot spots that didn't respond to anything I bought OTC.


Really?  I was just looking at that stuff because someone recommended it for eye infections now that it is SO hard to find terramycin.


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## bonbean01

I had this problem with a dog years back...I put neosporin on it, then fashioned an old cotton shirt for her that would allow the area to "breathe" but she couldn't get to it so easily.  Once they leave it alone, if there is no infection...heals pretty quickly...in 2 days for my girl.

Good luck!


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## Grazer

I'm so sorry to hear your female got a Hot Spot Babsbag.
I know how bad it can get within just hours...You see with Hot Spots the most important thing you can do is to get the dog to stop chewing on it, so the healing process can begin.
We would use an Elizabethan collar for our dog when she got Hot Spots, but I don't know how practical that would be for a female with pups. 
Still you might want to give it a thought.

It seems your female is allergic to flea bites, hence her reaction. So as long as you keep her flea free, she should be ok. 
The only flea treatment (and we have tried several) that ended up working for us was the Comfortis, a chewable tablet.
Sadly according to their webpage "The safe use of Comfortis in breeding, pregnant, or lactating cats and dogs has not been evaluated"
I have heard of saturating pups and the nursing mom with Dawn dish soap to kill all the fleas, but I personally have no experience with that.

To treat a Hot Spot effectively, you might want to shave off that area. It is easier to keep it dry that way.
We would clean the Hot Spot of our dog with hydrogen peroxide and then we would put a heavily diluted Tea Tree Oil on it, the one made specifically for dogs.
You have to be very careful with Tea Tree oil, because the pure Tea Tree Oil is in fact toxic for dogs (cats too btw).
And with the pups around, you might consider using something else.

A nice home made remedy to stop the Hot Spot itch are Black tea bags.  
I got this advice from our breeder: Dab on some Black Tea (not herbal tea). Soak a tea bag in hot water. Cool and apply the bag directly to the sore for five minutes three or four times a day.
It dries out the Hot Spot and therefor helps with the healing process. 

Another solution could be the SOA + Itch Be Gone Soap  Bacterial and fungal killer. http://americasacres.com/Product.aspx/33/SOA + ITCH Be Gone™ Bar Soap 
According to some people I talked, it seems to be very affective in stopping the itchiness of a Hot Spot and promoting healing.
Or you can use the Nu Stock, like Ragdollcatlady suggested. It has very good reviews.


The reason why I have a problem with how most vet's treat Hot Spots is because they so quickly prescribe antibiotics and cortisone (a form of steroid) shots and/or ointments.
It seems very effective, but more often than not, when a Hot Spot is treated that way, it comes back within just several months.
Plus a cortisone can have serious side effects.
So I personally would avoid such treatment, unless the Hot Spots are infected.
You could always consult a holistic vet, if there is one in your area. They are more expensive, but in the long run better for a dog.


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## bonbean01

Didn't know tea bags could help...that would be something good to try.

And forgot she is nursing pups...a makeshift shirt would not work at all.


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## babsbag

Thanks for all the ideas and the information on Verterciyn. That stuff is expensive for being bleach and water. I stay away from wormers, antibiotics, and most traditional meds until I know I have a problem I can't deal with another way. I will use them. but only when the life of the animal will be threatened if I don't. Thankfully my goats live on a dry lot and worms aren't much of an issue. I hate poisoning the animal to treat the problem. It just makes no sense to me. I am not anti western medicine, I just like to use it sparingly.

The cone collar won't work either because she has to lick her babies and she goes through gates to do her guad job, which she does with even more exuberance now that she has pups. 

I think I will shave it (she will love me )  and then do the tea bags and look for Nu Stock. Poor girl, as if puppies aren't work enough for her. I hate to see her looking miserable.


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## Grazer

Yes poor momma...nursing puppies and now dealing with a hot spot.
I remember how painful our female's Hot Spot was. She too got it after a flea bite. 
The weather got cold here, so I figured I won't treat them for fleas in the winter months. Big mistake (even though this worked for us in the past).
Unfortunately after a visit to the vet's office our female got fleas, very soon our dog and cat got fleas from her too (who btw didn't had a reaction to it). 
That night our dog caused herself some truly awful wounds.
Regular flea treatments didn't help until we got comfortis. 
She too had a Hot Spot right above her tail.

At Petco they have an alternative to the traditional cone collar: http://www.petco.com/product/100555/ProCollar-Premium-Inflatable-Protective-Collar.aspx 
The idea behind it is that it doesn't interfere with dog's vision and a dog wearing it can eat, drink and sleep easier when compared to a regular cone collar.
We tried it, but it didn't work for our dog. She could still get to her hot spot and a hot spot can't heal unless the dog stops licking/chewing on it.
So we returned it. Petco has a good returning policy, so you could try it if you want. It would be awesome if it could work for your poor dog who also has to be able to take care of her babies. 
Good luck  and let us know what ended up working for you once the Hot Spot is completely cleared up


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## babsbag

Grazer said:
			
		

> The weather got cold here, so I figured I won't treat them for fleas in the winter months. Big mistake (even though this worked for us in the past).


This is exactlly what happened to me. I have never had my outdoor dogs have a flea issue in the winter. And is has been colder here this year than normal. You just never know how nature is going to trick you.

I will let you know how we resolve this and I will check out the collar on Petco, thanks for the link.


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## Grazer

I agree....and I am like you, I thought I would give them a break from the chemicals during the winter months. 
Seems we got lucky in the past..
It is really unfortunate that in your case and in our case, not only did our dogs ended up having fleas in winter, but the ones allergic to flea bites, ended up with Hot Spots as well.
Hopefully neither our dog or yours will ever have Hot Spots again.


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## babsbag

So far I have shaved it and applied some neosporin. It doesn't look as bad as I thought, but she sure doesn't want it touched.

I don't think the pillow would live up to farm life. She is still patrolling and climbs through rungs on gates as her way to get from field to field. Plus I would be worried that it might lay on a puppy. 

If it looks like she is still pestering it I guess it will be the bitter apple spray and see if that works. I know that keeping her from chewing is the most important part of healing.


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## secuono

Dawn dish soap kills fleas, ticks and mites. Use a flea comb and get it all out, dirt, fleas w/e is loose there. Clean it, dry it and maybe put something she hates licking on it. "Bitter apple" spray junk doesn't work, a few dogs it works on, but mine like to eat it from the bottle and it's never worked for anyone I know. 
Bathe her in dawn, get the soap around her neck up near the ears, long before you even wet the dog. Fleas will travel to the head and you will not get rid of them at all if you do it any other way. 
You'll have to clean the bedding and all that, but out there, you'll have to hope the fleas won't bother the pups until you can put flea meds on them. 
If the pups do get fleas and just combing them doesn't help, use Dawn and bathe them, totally safe.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

*Whenever we had an animal come into the vet hospital I worked at with a bad case of fleas the first thing we'd do is bathe them in Dawn. We always put frontline or something else on right after. 

Have you heard of Comfortis? It's a chewable tablet that kills fleas and prevents them from reproducing. I am not a fan of feeding any animals poison, and I don't know if the fleas would travel off mama onto the babies, but it could be worth looking into; nothing easier than just giving a "treat"!*


----------



## babsbag

I will have to look Comfortis up, never heard of it. I wonder if it is safe for lactating dogs; does it go through into their milk?

In the past I have bathed pups with baby shampoo and it did a pretty good job too. I did see a few fleas on the babies, but not as many as I feared. I will keep on top of that as they grow, and with worming too. 

The hot spot on mom is scabbing over. I just can't give her an entire bath. It is freezing cold out there and she has never been in the house so no hot water. I will use the flea comb again tomorrow. She doesn't seem to be biting at it like she was so maybe cleaning it and brushing the flea gunk out of the area has made her feel better. 

I always feel like a failed pet owner when this stuff happens. I was just so paranoid about making her sick while she was pregnant.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

*You are not a failed pet owner!  It's better to be safe than sorry! (Even if safe means having a couple fleas!) I feel the same way with my goats right now, them being preggers and all. I had one who I think reabsorbed last year because of a supposedly safe dewormer, and a local breeder had the same thing happen to her! This year I am not giving anything I don't absolutely have to... just to be safe!*


----------



## babsbag

Ahhh thanks for the hugs. 

I see posts all the time where someone has a sick goat or chicken and they immediately think worms and run to the wormers. I won't give a wormer to a sick animal UNLESS I know they are sick from the worms. I won't even worm my dogs and cats the same month I give them flea treatment. I just really believe that it is a form of poison. If it kills the worm and the flea what does it do to the animal that is hosting the worm or flea? I know that the FDA has studied these meds and declared them safe but I am sure that there is an element of expendability when it comes to testing meds for animals. After are "they are just an animal",  right??

I usually treat for fleas every 3 months, heartworms every two (April-October), and tape worms when I see them. I worm my goats when they need it. Luckily I have a friend that will do fecals for me for free.

Better safe than sorry. But in spite of all of that I don't feed organic and I don't feed my pets raw. One of the things I learned in puppy class 6 years ago was what to look for in a pet food, so I do read labels and look for the best.


----------



## Southern by choice

Comfortis is really good... works for 30 days. I also don't like any junk but sometimes you have to weigh everything out. :/
Fleas are fleas... doesn't mean anything but that. Has nothing to do with you! 

Any dish soap will work... the key is allowing the suds to stay on the animal for 2o-30 minutes to suffocate the fleas. In a bad infestation or even in a mild one.. fleas are sneaky lil boogers. They will, as soon as you wet the animal down, climb into ear canals, up the nose, in the eye sockets, and anus. Only to come out later, hence the sudsing... they get trapped when they come out. It is a very successful way to rid the animal of the pests but it ends there. DE is good to put in bedding, also boric acid. Most topicals, like frontline and advantix just don't work in our area. 

I'm sure you already know this but at 5-6 weeks start worming the pups, also check for tapeworm which comes from fleas. Worm momma then too!


----------



## Grazer

I agree, Comfortis is by far the best flea treatment we have tried out.
It starts killing fleas within 30 minutes. They then literally just fall dead.
None of the topicals we have tried seemed to be effective, it's like the fleas have become resistant to them.

But to quote what I said in one of my previous posts: 





> According to their webpage "The safe use of Comfortis in breeding, pregnant, or lactating cats and dogs has not been evaluated"


So give your vet a call and ask them if you can give your nursing female that and what you should administrate to puppies that are so young.

As others have mentioned, a lot of breeders that have flea problems will use Dawn to bath and then comb (with flea combs) the puppies until they are old enough to be treated with chemical flea treatments.

Has anyone heard of Critter Oil? I have no experience with it (yet), but a lot of people seem to swear by it.
It is a natural flea and tick repellant and apparently it can be used on puppies older than 3 weeks: http://naturalsforanimals.com/critter-oil/critter-oil-ingredients/ & http://critteroil.com/uses-directions/ 

When our animals had fleas, the dogs were given Comfortis, but it was yet to be approved for cats. The vet told us our cat will have to wait 2 more weeks.
So we decided not to give her any more chemical flea treatments until we could give her the Comfortis.
The cat was treated with a topical previously, but it did not work. Since my cat absolutely hates getting wet, we tried Diatomaceous Earth on her.
Diatomaceous Earth is fairly cheap and lasts a really long time, but it did not work for us. The fleas kept multiplying...and we were so relieved when she was finally allowed to take her Comfortis.


----------



## Karma

There is also capstar which is oral and safe on puppies as young as 4 weeks, nursing and pregnant dogs. It only stays in their system a short time (24-48 hrs) and so it is meant for quick removal of adult fleas. Perhaps if she is allergic this is would be a good thing to use to get them off quickly so no more hotspots develop. Also other orals like Sentinel are effective against fleas, ticks, and heartworms. 

Because heartworms are a huge risk in our area my dogs are on heartwormer(we use Sentinel because if I'm going to use one might as well knock out as many parasites as possible) from March to December. We also put rose geranium oil on the inside of their nylon collars and spray it in a solution on the legs & belly of our pointers when they are in the field - haven't had one come out with a tick since doing this but when using spot ons (ie, frontline plus, advantix) we have had dogs come out so covered we were having to dip them every time we were out. 

That said keep in mind anything put on skin will have the potential to cause allergies in some individuals - even all natural products. Best way to be sure it will not harm your dog is to do a spot test, we apply a tiny bit of oil on the belly where the fur is thin before applying to the entire dog and watch for a reaction.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

Karma said:
			
		

> There is also capstar which is oral and safe on puppies as young as 4 weeks, nursing and pregnant dogs. It only stays in their system a short time (24-48 hrs) and so it is meant for quick removal of adult fleas. Perhaps if she is allergic this is would be a good thing to use to get them off quickly so no more hotspots develop. Also other orals like Sentinel are effective against fleas, ticks, and heartworms.
> 
> Because heartworms are a huge risk in our area my dogs are on heartwormer(we use Sentinel because if I'm going to use one might as well knock out as many parasites as possible) from March to December. We also put rose geranium oil on the inside of their nylon collars and spray it in a solution on the legs & belly of our pointers when they are in the field - haven't had one come out with a tick since doing this but when using spot ons (ie, frontline plus, advantix) we have had dogs come out so covered we were having to dip them every time we were out.
> 
> That said keep in mind anything put on skin will have the potential to cause allergies in some individuals - even all natural products. Best way to be sure it will not harm your dog is to do a spot test, we apply a tiny bit of oil on the belly where the fur is thin before applying to the entire dog and watch for a reaction.


*
Good idea, I forgot about the Capstar, we used that at the vet too, even in very young animals. It only kills the adults that are on them and as stated above only staying in the system from 24-48 hours.*


----------



## Southern by choice

Forgot to add ...if you use the *Comfortis give it with food*... if you don't it will not be effective for the 30 days. On an empty stomach it goes through their system so fast and doesn't get absorbed... and you just threw your $ down the drain.
First time I used this I wasn't told this.. at $22.50 a pill ... I was po'd !!! My neighbor vet told me... not the vet I got it from. Real nice huh?


----------



## babsbag

I have noticed that Frontline doesn't work as well as I thought it should/did. I thought is was just my imagination. 

We worry about our goat worms being resisitant to wormers, I wonder how the ivermectin is working on heartworm larvae these days? 

I will do my research and if all else fails the youngins' will just have to come up to the house for a bath in a few weeks. I am sure mama dog will love that. NOT. But my house dogs will be thrilled to death to have some puppies around. They love other dogs.

Thanks for all the suggestions. This forum is awesome.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

*PS.... any pics? *


----------



## babsbag

It is really hard to get pictures without someone to hold them and my son has the flu and has been no help and DH is out of town. I am going on a 7 hour round trip tomorrow to buy a goat but if I get home before dark I think it is warm enough to carry them out to the sun for some pictures. 

Our weather went from 46 to over 70 in a day so I think it is warm enough to bring them out from under the light for a little while; as a matter of fact I am turning off the heat lamp for the day tomorrow. They are getting big fast.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

babsbag said:
			
		

> It is really hard to get pictures without someone to hold them and my son has the flu and has been no help and DH is out of town. I am going on a 7 hour round trip tomorrow to buy a goat but if I get home before dark I think it is warm enough to carry them out to the sun for some pictures.
> 
> Our weather went from 46 to over 70 in a day so I think it is warm enough to bring them out from under the light for a little while; as a matter of fact I am turning off the heat lamp for the day tomorrow. They are getting big fast.




*Hope you have a safe trip! And of course we want to see pics of your new goatie too!*


----------



## babsbag

They are the FATTEST little (big) puppies. The eyes are just starting to open. It looks like the white ones will have some black or brown areas around the ears and of course the nose. Also, the masscara. One little girl looks to be tan like mom, with a white patch on her back.


----------



## BrownSheep




----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

*Awwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Sooooo cute!!!!!  Adorable! I bet they smell GREAT!  (I love puppy smell!)*


----------



## babsbag

Puppy breath is the best. 

My vet tells me if she could bottle it and sell it she could retire.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

babsbag said:
			
		

> Puppy breath is the best.
> 
> My vet tells me if she could bottle it and sell it she could retire.


*
 LOL!
*


----------



## Grazer

They are cute little fatties! I don't think there is anything more adorable than puppies or kitties for that matter.


----------



## CocoNUT




----------



## babsbag

The pups are starting to sit up and "walk" instead of acting like slugs. Their eyes are open and I guess their ears are too. One female pup started barking tonight when her dad and the neighbor's dog were barking at some unknown threat. It was really cute to see her sit up and bark. She is only 2.5 weeks old.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

babsbag said:
			
		

> The pups are starting to sit up and "walk" instead of acting like slugs. Their eyes are open and I guess their ears are too. One female pup started barking tonight when her dad and the neighbor's dog were barking at some unknown threat. It was really cute to see her sit up and bark. She is only 2.5 weeks old.


*
Awww!!! Too cute!  You know what that means? More pics of course! *


----------



## Southern by choice

@ Babsbag-

 Write the age and dog and remarks in your pup log book.... believe me in 4 more weeks you'll forget which one


----------



## Stubbornhillfarm

Oh my goodness!!!!  Seriously cute!  I love them all, but the black and white one is going to be seriously beautiful!  Congratulations.


----------



## poorboys

adorable pups,


----------



## babsbag

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> @ Babsbag-
> 
> Write the age and dog and remarks in your pup log book.... believe me in 4 more weeks you'll forget which one


I need to find a way to identify the white ones. I am so anti-collar it isn't even funny so any ideas? I thought about using a permanent marker on the top of the head, but not sure how that would go over with prospective buyers.

I have had two bark at sounds already, both of the females.


----------



## Southern by choice

Livestock marking pens are good. I was going to suggest that for later when you start assessing and evaluating. A little easier for you because they are not all the same color. Try doing 8-9 pyr pups... 

Don't worry about the buyers...  explain how you are evaluating the litter and need to see far away while observing. They should appreciate it. 

Record body positions, everything...


----------



## babsbag

Are those the pens they use for identifying which ewes have been bred? They look like a big crayon?

7 of these pups are white. They are going to have some identifying marks, eventually (I think) but for now they all look the same.


----------



## Southern by choice

Yep...they look like crayons. I'd get two colors... use one color for females and number them, another color for males and number them... you want it large enough to see from a distance.

wanted to send yo u something... look for a pm


----------



## babsbag

For your viewing pleasure


----------



## Southern by choice

Boy are they growing up fast!!!   Your girl is a good mommy!   

We need a picture of Daddy!


----------



## babsbag

Daddy still isn't allowed visitation rights and he misses wrestling with his girlfriend. I was giving him a good belly rub tonight and when I was done he got up and wanted to roughhouse with me.  My Border Collies do that with me all the time, but that was a first with Buddy. I feel kinda sorry for him.  

These pictures are on the first page of this post as well. He was only about 8 months old in the picture with the kid.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

*Awwwwww sooooo cute!!!!!! I love their little faces! Thank you!!! 


I can't believe how big they are already! Look at them all next to mom! *


----------



## Pearce Pastures

Those are all such cute pictures!


----------



## babsbag

The puppies are getting into everything and moving around their "barn" quite freely. They have been living in an area right next to my hay storage. Came home yesterday to my son telling me that about 6 of the goats had gotten out of their pen and they were sharing (as if goats share) the hay barn with the pups. He said the pups were huddled in the corner trying to stay out out of the way. Thank goodness none of them got trambled. A heck of a way to get introduced to your future charges.

Chicken training 101 started this morning. A RIR hen likes to lay her eggs in the puppies' pen which is full of straw. The pups were in there eating and they thought the chicken looked like a fun toy. At firs I was gently telling them no and pulling them away from the hen. Once she settled down on her nest she took over for me. A pup would come up to her and she would give them a squawk and a quick peck. Perfect. Couldn't ask for a better training. The pups were backing off and going back to the food. They may not ever learn to guard the chickens, and they might just invite the fox or coon in for a chicken dinner, but maybe they will learn some respect 

Last night I marked them with livestock markers so I can tell them apart. This morning I could barely see the marks. I don't know if the straw wore off the marks or if mom licked them clean but now I need another idea. I have to at least be able to mark the 4 white boys so I can tell them apart. I hate collars on pups. Maybe a permanent marker stripe on the back or tail.


----------



## Southern by choice

maybe it wasn't suppose to be funny, but I sure got a good laugh! 

How old now?


----------



## BrownSheep

What about dying the tail with food coloring?


----------



## Mamaboid

I must have one, I must I tell you, I must.....going to go stand in a corner and mutter to myself.....I must, I mu....


----------



## babsbag

BrownSheep said:
			
		

> What about dying the tail with food coloring?


That might work.  I only really need to mark the boys so I can start picking out on for another BYH member. The females are all sold but not picked out per se, but those people live near me so they can pick out their own. 

So could do red, green, blue and none. I want dark colors I can see. I also have those paste colors you use for frosting so I have purple I can put on the girls. I thought Dalmatians were hard, at least they finally get spots.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady

Kool Aid!!  We had a client at one of the vets I worked at that used to shave a mohawk on her poodle and dye the mohawk with kool aid.  It wont come off when mama licks it either. I'd mix it in hot water and let it cool enough to put it on them. This girl mixed the powder in conditioner and put it on the dog and rinsed after like 10 minutes but I dont recommend that! 


They are ADORABLE!!!


----------



## babsbag

I haven't dyed any tails yet. I am getting pretty good at telling them apart. They just started spending afternoons out of thier pen so they are venturing everywhere. I have only held my breath twice when they went into the buck pen. I am praying they don't get stepped on but they squeeze right through the stock panel so there is not keeping them out.

They all seem to be pretty brave and none of them really act shy. They are sharing their food with chickens on a regular basis  but last night they did growl at the big rooster that was standing in their dish. I gave them permission as I am sick of feeding chickens the puppy chow. 

Last year I had one that definately didn't like people, I don't see that this time. A few of them wiggle alot when I pick them up but none stay away from me when I come into the barn; so I am happy about that. 

Tomorrow I will take them out into the pasture which will be new to them so it will be interesting to see what they do.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

*Squeee! They are adorable! I hope the goats live them as much as I do!*


----------



## Southern by choice

They are so big now!
Was thinking about you today!


----------



## babsbag

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> *Squeee! They are adorable! I hope the goats live them as much as I do!*


My goats weren't real thrilled about dogs when I got them. Luckily my female won them over   The other day my herd queen, who has an attitude, was standing on top of a bale of straw and every time my male wanted to pass her she would start to head butt him. He was majorily ticked at her and stood there and barked at her till she finally got tired of the game and let him pass. Poor guy, he is at thieir mercy and all he wanted was to pass by so he could come and see me.

One of the pups was in the buck pen and my buck did that head tilt "I'm gonna get you" move and the pup just backed up and left. Good training. The buck was no where near butting him, and he was moving VERY slow, but the pup didn't bark or act afraid. Good signs I think.

I still haven't picked one out for you. The brown one is taken, so that leaves 5 for me to choose from. I haven't advertised much as I want to pick out yours before anyone else speaks for any more of them. I have one that I am watching closely for you, don't know why he has my eye, there is just something I like about him so we will see.


----------



## Sucker4critters

Beautiful pups!


----------



## Symphony

Did I see the rear of a black pup?


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

babsbag said:
			
		

> WhiteMountainsRanch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Squeee! They are adorable! I hope the goats live them as much as I do!*
> 
> 
> 
> My goats weren't real thrilled about dogs when I got them. Luckily my female won them over   The other day my herd queen, who has an attitude, was standing on top of a bale of straw and every time my male wanted to pass her she would start to head butt him. He was majorily ticked at her and stood there and barked at her till she finally got tired of the game and let him pass. Poor guy, he is at thieir mercy and all he wanted was to pass by so he could come and see me.
> 
> One of the pups was in the buck pen and my buck did that head tilt "I'm gonna get you" move and the pup just backed up and left. Good training. The buck was no where near butting him, and he was moving VERY slow, but the pup didn't bark or act afraid. Good signs I think.
> 
> I still haven't picked one out for you. The brown one is taken, so that leaves 5 for me to choose from. I haven't advertised much as I want to pick out yours before anyone else speaks for any more of them. I have one that I am watching closely for you, don't know why he has my eye, there is just something I like about him so we will see.
Click to expand...

*
Yay! Thank you for the update! Sounds like everything is going well and they are acting like they are supposed to act.  Good training too with the buck, it's good they can read the body language that young already! 

Thank you for the pics and update, I was just (well always) wondering how they were doing! *


----------



## babsbag

Symphony said:
			
		

> Did I see the rear of a black pup?


Yes, there is a black pup. He has a white muzzle, white feet, and a white tip on his tail. He is a big big boy and quite independant. 

Mom has Ovcahrka in her and I have been told that that is where the black comes from. We had 2 black ones last year.


----------



## babsbag

They grow so fast.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady

Oh. My. Goodness!!! I just love colored LGD's! They're sooo stinkin cute!


----------



## babsbag

If I needed another one and my male wasn't so territorial I would keep the black one. I am a sucker.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady

Man, he is CUTE though!   Does the top one have cream spots? He's really cute too.


----------



## Pearce Pastures

Too sweet!


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

*So cute! I love all of them, how could one ever have to choose!??!  *


----------



## babsbag

CrazyCatNChickenLady said:
			
		

> Man, he is CUTE though!   Does the top one have cream spots? He's really cute too.


Yes, he has cream spots. Dad has light freckles so there is a little color on both side of the gene pool. I have a female pup that has them too, and then there is the anatolian looking one. He is adorable, (and sold).


----------



## babsbag

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> *So cute! I love all of them, how could one ever have to choose!??!  *


When I got my male I went strictly by coat length, and my female was the only female so it was easy too. Not counting the black one, (he is too independant I think for you) I have 4 to choose from and 2 of those have long hair so that really narrows it down to two. I need to mark them so I can tell them apart.


----------



## babsbag

Puppies had an exciting afternoon trying to play on the goats climbing toy. Unfortunately the yearling does were trying to play on it too. One little pup got stepped on and rolled pretty good. Of course I grabed him and gave him lots of love, I think he is ok but it scared me and his mom.  Poor guy. This is the age that scares me the most. I have to let them interact with the goats, and explore the pasture, but it is hard on me. 

The puppies are not afraid of the goats at all, they are really curious about them.  I have seen two of them roll over and be submissive when a doe starts to give them a bump. It is a good sign, and the goat usually stops.  When I came home I could see one laying in the field with the bucks, he was not sleeping, but just laying there "on guard". Another good sign. They are 6 weeks old tomorrow.

Can I keep them all? Pleeease. I was sitting on the ground and had pups crawling all over me. I am glad that Southern said that the days of raising LGDs with little human contact was in the past


----------



## CocoNUT

You know what would REALLY help? Photos! Lots and lots of photos! 
I can only imagine how adorable they are...and you're so lucky to get to watch them growing and learning! Just be extra picky about who they're rehomed with...otherwise be prepared to pay A LOT for dogfood!


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

* So amazing!! Sitting the field watching already!!! *


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

CocoNUT said:
			
		

> You know what would REALLY help? Photos! Lots and lots of photos!
> I can only imagine how adorable they are...and you're so lucky to get to watch them growing and learning! Just be extra picky about who they're rehomed with...otherwise be prepared to pay A LOT for dogfood!


----------



## babsbag

CocoNUT said:
			
		

> You know what would REALLY help? Photos! Lots and lots of photos!
> I can only imagine how adorable they are...and you're so lucky to get to watch them growing and learning! Just be extra picky about who they're rehomed with...otherwise be prepared to pay A LOT for dogfood!


Hope this helps. And just in case, I am not kicking the puppy in the pic with my foot, he is happily chewing on my shoe.

I have 5 of the nine sold already. One is going to be with a sibling from last year so that is kinda fun. One is going to a BYH member so I get to watch him grow up and he better be good.   So far I have not seen any traits I don't like. Last year I had one that was very very shy but not this time. They all seem very outgoing and curious. They are out in the pasture and in the pens and it doesn't seem to faze them at all.

They LIKE chickens already; at least to play with.   They have to share food with them quite often which doesn't go over well. I try to correct them when I can get to them. This morning one had a chicken by the wing (hen didn't seem not notice) and I couldn't get to him quickly to correct him but a rooster came to the hen's rescue and acutually jumped on the pup and made him let go. Who knew I would have help from a rooster?


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch

*Awwww sooooo cute!!!! Thanks, now I can go to bed happy.   


You know what's funny, is that I've never been a *huge* white dog person, but since seeing pics of your Buddy and these little guys I am totally smitten!!! *


----------



## babsbag

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> *Awwww sooooo cute!!!! Thanks, now I can go to bed happy.
> 
> 
> You know what's funny, is that I've never been a *huge* white dog person, but since seeing pics of your Buddy and these little guys I am totally smitten!!! *


Me either, until I got Buddy. I think I just admire his dedication to his job, and to me, so much that I don't care what color he is. These pups have won my heart and they are HUGE. I should weigh them, but I bet 15-20 lbs already, maybe more. They are very compact.


----------



## Southern by choice

I like post #113 last two pics... I like the serious expression.

on this page......Pic 2,3,9..........pic 7 pup looks awfully playful   and  pic 6 blk/wht pup...looks like he would be a "hard" dog, if you know what I mean by "hard".  His expression in his eyes says- seriously hard dog. 

really cute pups.

I am not a white dog person either LOL except Pyrenees!


----------



## Shelly May

Hard meaning, hard for you to resist.... we are all smitten over babies no matter what they are, Southern would have them all in the house in the play pen...  loving up on all of them , Nice bunch


----------



## babsbag

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> I like post #113 last two pics... I like the serious expression.
> 
> on this page......Pic 2,3,9..........pic 7 pup looks awfully playful   and  pic 6 blk/wht pup...looks like he would be a "hard" dog, if you know what I mean by "hard".  His expression in his eyes says- seriously hard dog.
> 
> really cute pups.
> 
> I am not a white dog person either LOL except Pyrenees!


The black and white pup is a very serious boy. At first I thought he was shy but he has warmed up to me ok. But he doesn't play much like the others and is a little bit of a loaner. I think if the lady had called me back about a dog for Montana and her horse he would have been a good fit.

All of them are just so busy exploring everything and everywhere; and everything is a new toy to chew on or chase. But they all respect the goats so I am glad of that. They don't respect the chickens as much. But this morning I saw mom intervene between puppy and chicken so that was good. Maybe they will learn SOME manners in the next few weeks.

They are getting their first shots today


----------



## Grazer

They sure have grown a lot and they are so adorable!
I'm sorry if you already wrote about it somewhere else, but I was wondering, what method did you end up using to get rid of the fleas in nursing mom and puppies. What ended up working for you?


----------



## babsbag

Right after she whelped I shaved her hot spot and just cleaned it really well with soap and water and put some neosporyin on it. She didn't lick it at all once it was clean, she was a good good girl, and I think she was too busy with the pups to notice too much. 

I used a flea comb on her and dumped the fleas in a bucket of water, they don't swim well. I changed out all the bedding in the area where the pups are and sprinkled the wood with DE, especially in the cracks. I would just comb her every few days and then when the pups were 2 weeks old I used advantage on mom. I haven't treated the pups and I have seen a few on them, but not many. I don't see them scratching.  They are 6 weeks old now so I will find something for them, but not advantage. I refuse to poison them when they are this small. 

I need to go back and reread all the post about this as I know there were a few things suggested that I had never heard of. It also seems that the clean straw actually keeps the fleas away, maybe it is the dust on the straw.  IDK


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## Grazer

I am so glad you almost got rid of all those nasty, little fleas! 
And hopefully you'll be able to find something all natural that will work like a charm for the little ones


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## babsbag

I came home from work and of course I went straight to the barn to see the pups. They all met me at the gate to say hello and get some pats on the head and then, 1.2.3.   

I guess it was a tough day in the barnyard. It was like Dorothy in the poppy fields in the Wizard of Oz.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

* 

Who knows what mischief they were up to?!? While the cats away the mice will play!!! *


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## redtailgal

I got behind and am trying to get caught up so I am more than several posts behind. But, for future reference, finger nail polish works great for marking pups.

I started out by painting a toe nail (different colors for each pup), but that wore off too fast.  I ended up making a strip down the rump, and hold pup to let it dry.


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## SuburbanFarmChic

Oh.... that dark one might need to be sneaked into a box and shipped to WV..   Can you tape some feathers to his head first?  USPS won't mind, really. They'll just think it's another chick order.


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## babsbag

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> Oh.... that dark one might need to be sneaked into a box and shipped to WV..   Can you tape some feathers to his head first?  USPS won't mind, really. They'll just think it's another chick order.




I wish I had a way to get them shipped all over the US. I would love to have all the pups go to BYH members so I can watch them grow. 

The black one has learned how to climb out of the whelping box so it won't be soon until the others are right behind him.


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## Mamaboid

I must have that black one, I must, I must I tell you. ..........Trying to figure out how to get puppy to PA......


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## babsbag

Mamaboid said:
			
		

> I must have that black one, I must, I must I tell you. ..........Trying to figure out how to get puppy to PA......


One is going to San Diego and the buyer found a ride for it by posting a request on BackYardChickens. Just happens that someone near me has a DH that goes to San Diego once a month and it taking the pup.. A little closer to me than PA is though. :/

I don't think priority mail would work very well; he is to big for the box.


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## Symphony

babsbag said:
			
		

> I came home from work and of course I went straight to the barn to see the pups. They all met me at the gate to say hello and get some pats on the head and then, 1.2.3.
> 
> I guess it was a tough day in the barnyard. It was like Dorothy in the poppy fields in the Wizard of Oz.
> 
> http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/1856_2013-02-21_170556.jpg http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/1856_2013-02-21_170439.jpg


  Puppies are wonderful.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

Symphony said:
			
		

> babsbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I came home from work and of course I went straight to the barn to see the pups. They all met me at the gate to say hello and get some pats on the head and then, 1.2.3.
> 
> I guess it was a tough day in the barnyard. It was like Dorothy in the poppy fields in the Wizard of Oz.
> 
> http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/1856_2013-02-21_170556.jpg http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/1856_2013-02-21_170439.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Puppies are wonderful.
Click to expand...

*
X2!!  

I love the black one too, but I think white is a better choice for the middle of the desert. *


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady

How many of these adorable little buggers are still available?!  We're like 3 days in at staying at the new house and my whether got attacked by a dog yesterday morning. Dogs dug into the pen and tore him up pretty bad. $439 vet bill later and dbf is finally convinced!  I know theyre not going to guard for a couple years but I want to start with a pup!


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## babsbag

4 males are left. Just sent you a PM.


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## alsea1

Thts quite a herd ya got there


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## Mamaboid

babsbag said:
			
		

> Mamaboid said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I must have that black one, I must, I must I tell you. ..........Trying to figure out how to get puppy to PA......
> 
> 
> 
> One is going to San Diego and the buyer found a ride for it by posting a request on BackYardChickens. Just happens that someone near me has a DH that goes to San Diego once a month and it taking the pup.. A little closer to me than PA is though. :/
> 
> I don't think priority mail would work very well; he is to big for the box.
Click to expand...

LOL  Just saw this post.  Finding transportation would be very difficult if not impossible as I know NOBODY west of Indiana.  I tell you honestly though that is the only reason I am not telling you he is sold.


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## babsbag

I am pretty sure that all the pups will be gone by this weekend accept for the one that I keeping for a few more weeks before he goes to San Diego. The black one will be going to work on a huge sheep ranch along with one of his brothers.

I have fallen in love with all of them and is so hard to have them leave 

Last year I didn't play with them much as I still had the idea that they shouldn't really be bonded to people so I kept my distance other than an occasional pat on the head. These guys get daily tummy rubs and come running to see me when I call "pup pup puppies" . They are so much fun.


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## babsbag

This is the last of the liter and he will be going to San Diego in a few weeks to live with BYH member WhiteMountainsRanch. My son named him Diego for now. 







Last night his mom was deep in the field barking at coyotes at the our pond and he was safe in the barn with the goats; barking too. A good LGD in the making, hope he gets a little braver   I know that when my LGDs bark at a predator my border collie house dogs give a few barks and scratch at the back door to come in. Brave souls for sure.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

*Awww so cute! More pics plesse! Can't wait to meet him! Good boy for barking! *


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