# Urgent Baby Goat Housing Question, Please



## ncmtngal (Mar 6, 2012)

Long story short:
I have a neighbor with two 10-day old baby goats...one male one female.  Mother goat died.  Neighbor is mentally unstable and had to go the "Happy" hospital for at least 6 weeks.  
So, as of this afternoon, I have two bottle babies to take care of.  My main question is "housing".  I don't have any other goats nor do I have a barn where I currently live.  I do have a VERY large dog lot with shelter on my one-acre lot.  I'm also not opposed to keeping them indoors for a little while BUT I need some advice.  Am I CRAZY to think about keeping them inside?  I live in Western NC and it's still getting very cold at night.  I don't want to leave them out in that big, cold dog-lot all alone. I would just shut them off in my kitchen but I have wood floors in there and don't want them completely ruined by urine.  I also have a fenced back porch.  Could that be an option?

Any and all input would be appreciated.

Kerri


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## ncmtngal (Mar 6, 2012)

Oh, and what should I do with them when I have to leave the house for an hour or two?  Arg!!


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 6, 2012)

you could set up a heat lamp out in the shelter for them, what kind of shelter are you referring to?


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## Queen Mum (Mar 6, 2012)

Kitchen with a play pen at night is good, use puppy pads.   Or back porch will be fine.   Use a heat lamp on the back porch.  Make sure they have a dry place to sleep.   They can be outside in the daytime as long as they have shelter.    

CAUTION:  You are going to fall in love with those babies.  It's contagious.


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## ncmtngal (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks for your reply.  When I say "shelter" I mean there's a high roof above the dog houses to keep them dry if it rains.  There are no sides to the shelter.  It won't provide any warmth nor protect them from predators.


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## ncmtngal (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks Queen Mum.  I guess I need to find a playpen.  And oh, I know, I'm already attached.  I need them like I need a hole in my head.  LOL.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 6, 2012)

ncmtngal said:
			
		

> Thanks Queen Mum.  I guess I need to find a playpen.  And oh, I know, I'm already attached.  I need them like I need a hole in my head.  LOL.


No, no, no.  Repeat after me.  

"I need these kids, because they make me HAPPY!   They are my babies.  Babies need their mommy.  I am their Mommy.  They need me.  I have G.A.S.  (goat addiction Syndrome.)  It is normal to have G.A.S.  when you are a mommy.  I need these kids."


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 6, 2012)

ncmtngal said:
			
		

> Thanks for your reply.  When I say "shelter" I mean there's a high roof above the dog houses to keep them dry if it rains.  There are no sides to the shelter.  It won't provide any warmth nor protect them from predators.


That is what I was wondering, You will probably be better off to make something in your house or on the porch for at night,  You could put a large dog house out under the shelter and rig up a heat lamp in that, if you were really determined to not have them near the house, but it doesn't sound like you mind so I would go with the near the house plan,  It will be a lot warmer in 3 or 4 weeks and you can always come up with a different plan for outside at that point when the nights aren't quite so cold.


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## ncmtngal (Mar 6, 2012)

OK, I'll try.  I have 3 human kids, 50 chicks in the brooder, 3 dogs, 4 cats, 3 Flemish Giant Rabbits and one lizzard to mother as well!


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## Queen Mum (Mar 6, 2012)

ncmtngal said:
			
		

> OK, I'll try.  I have 3 human kids, 50 chicks in the brooder, 3 dogs, 4 cats, 3 Flemish Giant Rabbits and one lizzard to mother as well!


Oh, well in that case, you are all ready primed for G.A.S.


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## Jenski (Mar 6, 2012)

You could use a large or XL dog kennel with Aspen shavings in it for your bottle babies at night if you keep them inside.  And for the inevitable urine smell in the shavings, STALL DRY is your friend.  Sprinkle a bit in the shavings and it does a great job at keeping the shavings dry and sweetening the stall/kennel/box.

Congratulations on your new additions!  All will be well.  You have lots of other goat people here to help you.


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## redtailgal (Mar 6, 2012)

ncmtngal...........I live in Statesville NC.  Are we close?  If so, maybe I can help you out.

and one more question.....

What sort of lizard are you a mother to?  (It is so cool to not be the only lizard mom on here!  I have Elroy!  meet him here:  http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=13240&p=149)


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## ncmtngal (Mar 6, 2012)

Oh Boy,  I can already tell you gals are gonna be my new best friends!  
Retailgal...I'm in Hendersonville, about 1.5 hours away from Statesville.  And we have a Mali Uminastics lizzard, although I have no idea if that's the way you spell it - probably not.
Well, I have two baby goats in a small playpen with hay on the bottom in my sunroom which is INSIDE my house (that was a terribly structured setence).  I couldn't stand the thought of them being in that pen all by themselves after just having lost their mama.  Neither one will take a bottle yet, but I assume that will take a little time?  Someone please tell me to be patient and that they won't die of starvation over the next 24 hours.  I read a lot of info of on the internet today and decided to buy regular baby nipples although I did pick up some sheep ones at Tractor Supply.  Guess I'll try those if they refuse the other nipples much longer.

I really hope we all make it through the night!


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## ncmtngal (Mar 6, 2012)

OK, another question. I sure don't want to keep them in the playpen all of the time.  I'm sure this is the dumbest question ever but can I just let them kinda roam around the house, or at least a room or two?  Supervised, of course.  Will the urine be totally overwhelming?


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## Missy (Mar 6, 2012)

ncmtngal said:
			
		

> OK, another question. I sure don't want to keep them in the playpen all of the time.  I'm sure this is the dumbest question ever but can I just let them kinda roam around the house, or at least a room or two?  Supervised, of course.  Will the urine be totally overwhelming?


Just heads up, I have one little buckling in my house, and he pees...a lot. between me and my other half plus the kids, we bring him out every hour and he pees quite frequently. Plus the occasional miss and he pees inside. I found that I spend half my day chasing him around with super towels. I have diapers for him, but really need a smaller size. The one we have are Smalls, extra small would probably be better. He is around 11 lbs (at just under a week). I am not sure how big your kids are but extra small would probably be best for them too. However, diapers do not work well for poop since there is an opening for the tail.


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## ncmtngal (Mar 6, 2012)

Thanks Missy.  Stupid qestion alert - are you using doggie diapers?


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## Mills1950 (Mar 6, 2012)

This experience will be very rewarding!!!  Someone please post roll farms link on bottle feeding I'm on my iPad and it will not let me do it.  I don't think those babies,should go 24 hrs before being fed, ESP all night.  Warm cows milk, goat whatever you have at the house ---


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## Queen Mum (Mar 6, 2012)

Just stuff that nipple in their little mouth with their nose in the air at a 45 degree angle.  The lamb nipples should have the opening snipped a little bit bigger or they will have to suck too hard to get the milk out.   It might take a couple tries, but they will get it soon enough.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Mar 7, 2012)

Sometimes with babies you have to tease their mouth a bit to get them to latch on.  Kind of fiddle the nipple around their mouth a bit. It helps if they can smell the milk so put a drop or three on the outside of the nipple.  There are babies that you have to stick a finger or three in their mouth, pry it open and pop the nipple in until they figure out that this is where the food comes from.


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## redtailgal (Mar 7, 2012)

_There is the information from the Roll Farms link, copied and pasted from http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=149874#p149874  .

The info is authored by Roll Farms and permission to copy/paste was given in the article.

The article:
_

I asked KStaven's permission to post this, so that we could refer new people with babies to it.  Feel free to copy / paste as needed.  
I tried to make it as general as possible (leaving brand names out in case things aren't available in someone's area) and I probably forgot something, but I hope it helps if the need arises.  

So you bought a baby goat.Now what?

If you didnt get it from a breeder, one of the first things you should do is find a goat mentor (local breeder, preferably with knowledge about the breed you have) or a good, goat-savvy veterinarian locally.

Raising kids isnt an exact science, but here are some general rules, tips, and info that can help.

    Normal goat temperature is 101.5-102.5 degrees.

    If you want the kid disbudded (horns removed), it should be done before it is 2 wks old.  Usually somewhere between 3-7 days of age.  A local breeder can usually be found to do it for you, or a vet with disbudding experience.  Disbudding after 2 wks of age (or a certain amount of horn growth) may not work.  If they start to grow horns after disbudding, reburning is possible but doesnt always work.  Boys are more difficult than girls and the older the kid was when it was done originally makes a difference.

    Male goats (bucklings) that wont be used for breeding should be wethered.  Wethers make wonderful pets.  Bucks stink and have some nasty habits, even the most adorable buck kids will turn into big smelly monsters at breeding time.  This is done several ways, but banding is usually the easiest and least expensive.  It should never be done before 8 wks of age to give the urethra time to grow.  That, and the proper diet, will help prevent Urinary Calculi in wethers.  A vet can surgically castrate them for you, or use a Burdizzo to crush the blood vessels that supply the testicles, but isnt always 100% effective.

    Kids should be vaccinated with CD-T vaccine to prevent clostridium perfringins type C and D and clostridium tetani.  The 1st shot should be given between 1-3 wks of age, with a follow up booster shot 3 wks later.  Then boost annually.  There are other vaccines available and you can research what is needed in your area, but CD-T is very important, to protect against enterotoxemia and tetanus.

Bottle babies:
Newborn  3 mos

FEEDING:

Any kid under 2 mos of age still needs milk.*
*If the kids is younger, but already weaned, and is eating kid starter feed and hay well, you do not need to put them back on milk if they dont want to take a bottle.  Just be sure to feed adequate amounts so they grow to their full potential.  Sudden dietary changes can make a goat very sick, very fast.remember to make any changes / additions gradually.

Kids should be trained to a bottle before being sold, but sometimes the mom dies suddenly or other things prevent that.  Training a dam-raised kid to bottle can be a challenge.  Try sitting above the kid so it is under you and reaching up for the nipple, like it would if it were still on mom.

Bottle feeding:

Feed them 3x a day, with at least 6 hours between feedings.
Whole milk is best (vitamin D from the grocery) unless you have a supply of fresh goat milk.    
Some milk replacers work fine, but generally multi species replacers will cause scours and you dont want to risk that with young kids.  If the kid is already on replacer and doing fine, use the same replacer throughout the feeding process.  If the kid begins to scour, consider switching to whole milk.  If replacer is the culprit, the whole milk should straighten them out in a day or so.

Warm the milk as you would for a human baby.  A warm water bath or short zap in the microwave will sufficeShake well if you use the microwave, it can cause hot spots.

If you bought them / are buying them from a breeder, ask them for a written-out schedule, how much milk theyre drinking, and what style nipple they are using.
    Nipples can be purchased at farm supply stores like TSC, Rural King, etc.
    Human baby bottles can be used for mini kids.  
    Standard kids prefer a bigger nipple, especially as they grow.

A 1 week old kid wont take as much milk as a 2 mo. old kid, obviouslyyou gradually increase the amount given until they peak at around 20oz for standard kids, 12 oz. for mini kids, 3 times per day.

Newborns Newborns NEED colostrums for the 1st 24 hours.  If you dont have any, farm stores carry colostrums REPLACER.  It needs to say REPLACER, not supplement.  Standards take 4-8 oz every 6 hours for at least 3 feedings.  4 is even better.

Suggested feeding schedule for standards (use a little more than half for minis and adjust accordingly.  Not every standard kid will eat this much, and some minis may want more).  Make adjustments slowly.

Days 2-7

Bottles at 8am - 2pm  9pm  6-8 oz.

Days 7-14 

Introduce them to hay.  They will probably only play with it at first, but put a little in front of them.  Change it daily if its soiled / stepped on.

Bottles at 8am - 2pm  9pm  10-12 oz.

Days 14-60  

Introduce them to pelleted feed  a good 16% goat ration.  
Offer only a handful at first, and change it out daily.  They wont eat old feed.
You can research what is a good feed in your area, not all feeds are available in all places and there are many additives you may (or may not) want to consider, such as ammonium chloride to help prevent Urinary Calculi or Deccox / Rumensin to help prevent Coccidiosis.  

A good, loose mineral should be offered as well.  Be sure it has adequate copper levels and is formulated for goats.  Refresh the mineral often, goats will ignore old mineral.

Bottles at 8am - 2pm  9pm  16-20 oz.

2 mos.  -

Assuming they are doing well at eating their grain / hay, cut them back to 2 bottles a day and adjust the amount of feed you put out.  They will quickly figure out that that empty feeling in their tummy is helped by eating the pellets.  1/8-1/4 cup of feed offered 2x a day.

8am  2pm  20 oz.

2.5 mos.  

One bottle, 1x a day, and adjust feed amounts accordingly to roughly 1/4-1/2 cup 2x a day.  Meat breeds will need more than dairy, minis less than standards, etc.

3 mos. 

No more bottles  Youre a big kid now!

    Never feed a cold kid.  If their mouth feels cold and they are lethargic, warm them before feeding.  A cold kid cant digest well and could get very sick if the milk goes sour in the stomach.

    If a trained-to-the-bottle kid refuses 1 bottle, but is otherwise acting fine.its probably ok.  It may have gotten too full at the last feeding or filled up on hay or pellets.  If it refuses two feedings, there may be a problem.  Baby goats LOVE to eat.

    If the kid feels sloshy, weak / floppy, and seems offput  tsp of baking soda in just enough water to dissolve it and give it to the kid w/ a syringe.  Wait 2-4 hours (or until theyre no longer sloshy) before attempting to feed it again.

    If the kid feels / acts constipated, give an enema using a luer slip syringe and warm soapy water.  Try 6cc (for standards, 3cc for minis) and repeat until they poop.  Be careful, it can be messy.

    Normal newborn poop is tarry and black.  After a couple times, it should turn mustard colored and firm up.  Continued runny poop or scours can indicate a problem.

    If a kid hasnt had any dietary changes and begins to scour, keeping them hydrated is essential.  Replace their milk with gatoraide, pedialyte or a gelling electrolyte (available from farm stores).  Do not try to stop the scours with pepto or kaolin unless / until you know the cause.  Scouring is the bodys way of getting rid of bad stuff and you need to cure the problem behind the scours.

    If you are new to goats it is always best to enlist the help of a knowledgeable vet or goat mentor with diagnosing illnesses.

    There is usually not much time to wait to get help with a sick kid.  If they get sick on a Friday night and the vet is closedchances are waiting until Monday will be too late.

    A kid under 3 wks that scours could have a bacterial infection, like salmonella or e coli.  It will take antibiotics to cure them.  

    A kid over 3 wks that scours could have coccidiosis and / or a bacterial infection.  A fecal test and vet exam can help diagnose their illness, and the vet can suggest a treatment.

Weanlings (over 2-3 mos)

Continue with goat feed / hay / fresh browse and monitor their growth / condition.  Increase feed amounts gradually.  Meat breed kids usually need more feed than dairy kids to reach their full potential, and the end purpose of the animal must be kept in mind, too.   A pet wether will do fine on good browse and / or hay and very little, if any, feed once theyre past the fast-growing kid stage.  Pygmy goats can become fat very easy and its better for their health to not be overfed.  The best thing you can do is put your hands on the kid often the feel the condition.  You should not feel the ribs or backbone through the skin, there should be layer of meat over the bones.

If you buy a kid and youre not sure if its been vaccinated with CD-T, its usually better to go ahead and do it.  The vaccine is available at farm supply stores or online, or a veterinarian can give the shots for you.

Any time a kid has had antibiotics administered, is stressed, or has scoured, administering a probiotic (available in paste and powdered form) can help repopulate the rumen with the good bugs goats need.

Learn all you can about parasites  they can and will kill a young goat quickly.  Coccidiosis is the worst, but worms (especially Barberpole) can kill quickly, too.

There are several ways to treat / prevent coccidiosis.  
Using medicated feed alone will not be enough to prevent it in small kids, they cannot eat enough to get the medication up to therapeutic levels.  If a fecal shows coccidiosis, using DiMethox, Corid, or SMZ-TMP is usually recommended, and talking to your vet or mentor and having a plan before you need it is best.
Knowing which dewormers to use, and at what strength, will help tremendously to help reduce the huge problem of dewormer resistance.
There are several university studies available online that go into great detail on both traditional and alternative ways to treat / manage parasites.


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## ncmtngal (Mar 8, 2012)

Thank you everyone!  Things seem to be going well.  They got used to the bottle yesterday and won't leave me alone now. They're staying in the house with us and it's very entertaining, yet I think their addition has officially made my house an indoor farm.  I tried to put baby diapers on them but they get them off almost immediately.  I'm thinking of trying duct tape, LOL.    My husband will be so suprised when he gets home from his work trip tonight


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## Missy (Mar 8, 2012)

ncmtngal said:
			
		

> Thanks Missy.  Stupid qestion alert - are you using doggie diapers?


Yes doggie diapers it is Also I use duct tape to keep the diapers on...I know..redneck right? lol.


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## Ariel72 (Mar 8, 2012)

ncmtngal said:
			
		

> Thank you everyone!  Things seem to be going well.  They got used to the bottle yesterday and won't leave me alone now. They're staying in the house with us and it's very entertaining, yet I think their addition has officially made my house an indoor farm.  I tried to put baby diapers on them but they get them off almost immediately.  I'm thinking of trying duct tape, LOL.    My husband will be so suprised when he gets home from his work trip tonight


Only boring people never put farm animals in their house.  I'm getting ready to put 10 baby chicks in the back bathroom (before my husband gets home and catches me).  Now I think I need an iquana.  Elroy is very cool.  Isn't it rewarding to rescue an animal and watch it bloom when you give it love and good care.


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## ncmtngal (Mar 8, 2012)

Uh Oh, Missy...I bought human baby diapers.  Maybe that's part of the problem.

LOL Ariel 72 - I must be a very exciting person.  Currently in my home I have 30 chicks, 2 Flemish Giant Rabbits along with their 17 babies, and (now) two goats.  Not to mention all of the "non-farm" animals - 4 cats, 3 dogs, and 3 human children.  Oh wait, I forgot all of the outdoor chickens.  Well...at least they're outside   I think my husband it going to have me commited.


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## daisychick (Mar 8, 2012)

Human diapers work too, just duct tape them to make them a little tighter.  I have always used newborn baby diapers on goat kids when I needed too.   It is a little harder to cover the boy parts but you can manage if you position the diaper just right and then make a "belt" out of the duct tape to keep it tighter around the "waist".


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## Queen Mum (Mar 8, 2012)

You can cut a little slot for the tail.


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## ncmtngal (Mar 8, 2012)

OK...for those of you still reading this thread.  These goats have been here less than 48 hours and they're driving me NUTS!  Really.  I have to laugh but they're seriously like two naughty toddlers.  LOL!


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## RainySunday (Mar 8, 2012)

And that's why mine don't live in my house, lol.  The couple of hours that they're in right after kidding for their big dry off and first bottle are more than enough for me, lol.  Good luck!


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