# Interest in LGD puppies in VA? Also, breeding tips?



## secuono (Dec 9, 2015)

I'm wondering if there is any interest in LGD puppies for 2016 in and around Virginia?

We may be breeding our Maremma/GP to our pure GP within the next year. 

I have never dealt with dog or cat pregnancies. Sheep, rabbit, bird, fish, guinea pig, cricket breeding, care and through births and raising them. But this is new to me. Have been doing research for awhile now, but would like personal opinions and experienced advice and tips.
Do dogs need pregnancy vaccines like horses get or special feeding/vitamin additions? 
Can you externally check for retained puppies like you can with rabbits, guinea pigs and sheep? 
Can you go after stuck pups like with sheepor is that immediate vet only? 
What do I need on hand from start to end?
When do I need to contact the vet to make sure they know I may need them with birthing difficulties? 
Any OTC drugs or supplements that can be used to help the female a coyple weeks before, during and after? 
Anything else livestock related that may be related to dog breeding? 
I know about copulation tying and length of pregnancy. But does breed or size of the dogs have anything to do with length of pregnancy? I know a few other animals tend to have shorter or longer pregnancies than average depending on breed or size. 

__________________________________________

About the potential parents. 

Both are working dogs, live with sheep full time. They also watch over horses, hogs and ducks currently. Neither have ever jumped, dug out or otherwise escaped their fencing, wonderful with new born lambs, too. Stocky, healthy, level-headed, proper bone structure and can discriminate between real threats and purely innocent passersby.

Male has been excellent with lambs, adult sheep, ducks, hogs, piglets and horses since coming to our farm as an adorable two month old puppy. He has never needed any correction when dealing with the stock. He likes to stay in with the sheep when the female alerts and runs off towards the predator(s). 

Female grew up with the same animals as the male, but also rabbits, guinea pigs, chickens, guinea fowl and goats. She needed a little guidance with chickens (normal), but never harmed any. She is extra gentle with rabbits, guinea pigs, newborn lambs and other small and defenseless mammals. She has alerted and watched over weak wild birds as well, fallen Black Bird fledglings are a yearly event she diligently cares for. She has been fine with the shearers, except when the worker was handling heavily pregnant ewes, then she was up and barking, pacing and very concerned about her ladies, but never aggressive towards the shearer. She also prevents the horses from rough-housing to hard with each other or overly pestering the other stock.


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## Latestarter (Dec 10, 2015)

If for no other reason than we're fixated on pics, could you share a few of the potential parents? How big are they? When would the pups be born (approx)? The parents sound like real good LGDs...


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## BlessedWithGoats (Dec 10, 2015)

@Southern by choice @Samantha drawz @purplequeenvt 
Tagging some people that may be able to answer your questions!


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## samssimonsays (Dec 10, 2015)

My Experience is slightly different, We had an oopsie with our 65 pound collie and our 150 pound GP/St Bernard (St. Pyr is the male). We had her in for an xray of the pups to see if she had more than 4 because any less and she may not have been able to pass them. We did not do anything different for her in pregnancy aside from our natural wormer around 2 weeks before and then puppy food mixed with her adult food the week leading up to delivery and since she is nursing 8 pups she gets the puppy food mixed half and half with adult food free fed because that is what she is used to otherwise along with a dinner of scrambled eggs and I rotate between chicken and beef (raw) every night for her dinner. She has not lost weight (yet) and is producing plenty of milk for her little oinkers. All wwe needed was old towles, an infant aspirator and old blankets (she is a house dog and still managed to miss the only part not covered by blankets AND had one on the couch) But I did not have to do anything aside for help the last one take a breath with a couple taps on his back as she went for the afterbirth before his sac. We needed the vet to know about ours due to the size difference and possible need for a c-section.


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## secuono (Dec 10, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> If for no other reason than we're fixated on pics, could you share a few of the potential parents? How big are they? When would the pups be born (approx)? The parents sound like real good LGDs...



Here's some pics. Have countless pics of them growing up.


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## secuono (Dec 10, 2015)

Oh, I don't have a livestock scale, so I don't know how much they weigh. Based on feel alone, they would be 90+ easily.
I can measure their height tomorrow. But from comparing sheep heights to them, they are at least 25in tall.


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## babsbag (Dec 10, 2015)

Beautiful dogs. 

I love raising puppies. I had 4 litters of LGDs and just recently spayed the female. There are always risks with breeding and the older the dog is the more the risk and Sigueme is worth mush more to me than puppies so we quit while we were ahead.  

As far as shots, just make sure the dam is current on her regular dog vaccines and rabies. If she is in good health and weight you really don't need to do anything extra, you don't want her fat. Vitamins never hurt; I did give them when I would remember. I could never feel for retained pups, but I don't know what to feel for, I also wouldn't be comfortable going in after a pup, but maybe people do it, not sure. Probably the fear of a retained pup is my biggest concern and for a good week after birthing I watch mama like a hawk, checking for lack of appetite, odor, change of color, etc. My vet always knew the time was close but I never needed her, I also knew of an emergency clinic if I needed them. 

As far as what to have on  hand...lots of towels and puppy pads are good for birthing on.  A baby suction bulb might be good too but I never used one. 

I always had a good experience and did other litters years ago of Dalmatians. But it is always a risk, you could lose a good dog for some pups. You have to take that into consideration. And once the pups are born your work has just begun. There is the constant cleaning and monitoring (and worrying). Then when they get to where mom doesn't clean up after them you have to take over that job too. Pups will step in and wear pooh quite frequently. 

And don't forget a safe place to birth and raise the pups. Near the livestock is great, but not with them. But yet mom  needs to be able to come and go and do her job while the pups stay confined. Can be a challenge. And look at the weather too. I have had them so hot had to use a mister on them, it was 114°. And the flip side, freezing cold and under heat lamps.

Not trying to talk you out of it or scare you, just want you to have both eyes open going in.  I sell mine at 10 weeks but many breeders so 12-16 is better so this is a huge time and money commitment..they EAT and the pups need to be wormed quite frequently the first few weeks.  Being a breeder and a GOOD breeder are not the same. You have a responsibility to your dog, the pups, and the potential buyers.

Now have fun, that is the main rule or isn't worth doing.


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## Latestarter (Dec 11, 2015)

Thanks for the pics! Good looking animals! I really think you should do the "balance on the bathroom scale while holding the dog" thing...


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## secuono (Dec 11, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> Thanks for the pics! Good looking animals! I really think you should do the "balance on the bathroom scale while holding the dog" thing...



I've done that while holding sheep.


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## Latestarter (Dec 11, 2015)

Well dang! If you can do it with a sheep, why not a dog? LOL


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## Southern by choice (Dec 11, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> Well dang! If you can do it with a sheep, why not a dog? LOL



There is considerably more to it than that.
There are enough backyard breeders. Can you throw 2 dogs together give a shot sell them and be done... yep. Many do.

Not saying you would do that Secouno- 

Or were you referring to weighing the animals?


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## Latestarter (Dec 11, 2015)

I was referring to picking the dog up and getting on a bathroom scale...


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 11, 2015)

@secuono 

Those lambs are adorable.  How do you give heartworm prevention if you don't know the weight? Is there a method that I don't know about?


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## secuono (Dec 11, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> Well dang! If you can do it with a sheep, why not a dog? LOL



They were 65 and 73 pound sheep, so not too heavy. I used to weigh my doberman that way, he was 85#. So I may be able to still lift the dogs...Will have to try it.


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## secuono (Dec 11, 2015)

Well, that was difficult to say the least! 
Got the female to stay still long enough, 100#, plus or minus a couple pounds. But the male wouldn't cooperate at all. Maybe I can get another bathroom scale and have him stand on both. 

Heartworm drugs, like many other drugs are done by a range of weight, not exact weight. 
Many people treat themselves with Ivermectin.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 11, 2015)

secuono said:


> Many people treat themselves with Ivermectin.



That's what we do.


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## Latestarter (Dec 11, 2015)

I would never treat myself with ivermectin... Might treat livestock with it though... 

So the female is ~#100... The male looks bigger by ~ 20-30 pounds I'd guess... Good sized LGDs!


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 11, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> I would never treat myself with ivermectin... Might treat livestock with it though...
> 
> So the female is ~#100... The male looks bigger by ~ 20-30 pounds I'd guess... Good sized LGDs!



I think @secuono meant, at least what I understood was that people give their dogs Ivermectin that you get from TSC as heartworm preventative instead of Heartguard from the vet.  Ivermectin is the active ingredient in Heartguard.  That's what we have done for years.

With that being said, they do give Ivermectin to people in other countries. Had a friend who got intestinal worms while on a mission trip to South American and that's what they gave her.


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## Hens and Roos (Dec 11, 2015)

we cant use straight Ivermectin with our Aussie due to a possible sensitivity.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 11, 2015)

Hens and Roos said:


> we cant use straight Ivermectin with our Aussie due to a possible sensitivity.


Yep, some breeds particularly the herding breeds are sensitive to it.  I don't think you give them HeartGuard do you?


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## Hens and Roos (Dec 11, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> Yep, some breeds particularly the herding breeds are sensitive to it.  I don't think you give them HeartGuard do you?



yes we can use Heartguard or the generic brand(which we use) and have had no problems.


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## secuono (Dec 11, 2015)

Lol, I think many people accidentally treat themselves with it when they handle Ivomec. I know I get it on my hands every year, at leadt I know I don't have worms! Haha

Yea, they use it for humans in other countries. 

And I think Heartguard tested on collies and other dogs with the genetic issue up to 10x the dose with no negativeside effects.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 11, 2015)

secuono said:


> Lol, I think many people accidentally treat themselves with it when they handle Ivomec. I know I get it on my hands every year, at leadt I know I don't have worms! Haha
> 
> Yea, they use it for humans in other countries.
> 
> And I think Heartguard tested on collies and other dogs with the genetic issue up to 10x the dose with no negativeside effects.


Yeah, I don't really worry to much about withdrawal time.  I figure I'll get my annual worming.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 11, 2015)

As to your original post, I say go for it.  I think you should have a litter of puppies.  SBC said correctly we don't need more backyard breeders.  But, you have a farm and would raise farm dogs to sell to farms.  I know there is a demand for that.
We have friends who breed goats and LGD's and most of our goat friends have their dogs.  I think that we are going to breed Angel and Marvel because we have people who have gotten goats from us who are getting more into it and they will need dogs.


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## Latestarter (Dec 11, 2015)

Sorry... my attempt at grammatical humor was obviously a flop...  I too think you should seriously consider it Secuono.


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## GLENMAR (Dec 24, 2015)

I recommend this book for anyone thinking of breeding their dog or raising puppies.

http://www.amazon.com/Canine-Reproduction-The-Breeders-Guide/dp/1577790286

I have bred show dogs for over 20 years. This is one of the first books I got.


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