# mini mancha cross



## dragonlord483 (Feb 10, 2015)

What would the percentage be for a 75% lamancha 25 % Nigerian to another 75/25


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## babsbag (Feb 10, 2015)

If I do the math right they are still 75/25.

You take 75 from each parent, add them together and divide by 2; same for the 25%.

It is easier to see the math when they aren't the same percentage.  My 75% Alpine 25% Toggenburg goat bred to a 100% alpine buck...
75+100=175  175/2 = 87.5 Alpine and 12.5% Toggeneburg


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## dragonlord483 (Feb 10, 2015)

babsbag said:


> If I do the math right they are still 75/25.
> 
> You take 75 from each parent, add them together and divide by 2; same for the 25%.
> 
> ...


So that if I keep that up it will be pure breed I haven't received my goats yet but soon


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## babsbag (Feb 10, 2015)

I don't think it would ever be purebred if you continue to breed 75/25. But minis have another way of doing things, it goes by generations and I am not sure how it works as I don't have any. Maybe @Southern by choice or @Goat Whisperer can explain it to you.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 10, 2015)

Assuming your goal is going in the standard direction and not mini....
Yes, that would still result on a 75/25.
You would need to breed to a registered Lamancha Buck to increase your percentage.
Special attention to Section C
https://www.adga.org/joomla/forms/ADGA/REGAPP20141112.pdf


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 10, 2015)

Recorded Grades are* technically* only supposed to be crosses of standard dairy goats, not Nigerian and not known to have any boer.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 10, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> Recorded Grades are* technically* only supposed to be crosses of standard dairy goats, not Nigerian and not known to have any boer.



That is also my understanding. Yet experimentals can be with Nigies and registered with the MDGA. Where I am sometimes perplexed is the NOA which this goat's offspring (if sired by a Lamancha Buck) would probably qualify. 

Section C states "Standard" which eliminates the miniature but then it still comes back around to the NOA. 
There are many goats that end up NOA with little background info I imagine some might have had just about anything in the background.


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 10, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> That is also my understanding. Yet experimentals can be with Nigies and registered with the MDGA. Where I am sometimes perplexed is the NOA which this goat's offspring (if sired by a Lamancha Buck) would probably qualify.
> 
> Section C states "Standard" which eliminates the miniature but then it still comes back around to the NOA.
> There are many goats that end up NOA with little background info I imagine some might have had just about anything in the background.



I have never quite understood the significance of NOA.  They are treated just like recorded grades.  You can also register any animal of "unknown origin" as recorded grade.
So, I'm not sure if the NOA's are already treated as 50% and then their offspring 75% and the recorded are just that "recorded" and their offspring are only 50%.  I'm not sure.

I do know that I was talking to someone with ADGA one time and he was talking to people who were registering 50% grades where the buck was registered and the dam was unknown origin when they in fact knew the dam was boer.  They thought it was ok, but you aren't supposed to do that, it's not the intention at least.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 10, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> I have never quite understood the significance of NOA.  They are treated just like recorded grades.  You can also register any animal of "unknown origin" as recorded grade.
> So, I'm not sure if the NOA's are already treated as 50% and then their offspring 75% and the recorded are just that "recorded" and their offspring are only 50%.  I'm not sure.
> 
> I do know that I was talking to someone with ADGA one time and he was talking to people who were registering 50% grades where the buck was registered and the dam was unknown origin when they in fact knew the dam was boer.  They thought it was ok, but you aren't supposed to do that, it's not the intention at least.


I know what you mean. Someone asked us once why we wouldn't just register our unregistered kids under one of our registered does... I couldn't believe that they would ask that. I just looked at them and said, "Why would I do that? That is unethical and I would know the truth."   It's scary to think there are people out there like that. Next thing everyone will need to start doing DNA because of the few that abuse the system. Sad really.


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## babsbag (Feb 10, 2015)

I agree that it is sad that people take this all so lightly and off the cuff. I have two doelings I will do DNA on just because I didn't see the breeding to either buck. The one that I think is their sire did get into the pen with the dam for a few hours and the dates are right but the kids look just like the kids that are sired by buck #2. I never wrote down that the doe was in with buck # 2 but then I could have just messed up. I need to be sure, it is only right.

I was thinking that the original OP wants Minis as the post was titled mini manchas


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 10, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> I know what you mean. Someone asked us once why we wouldn't just register our unregistered kids under one of our registered does... I couldn't believe that they would ask that. I just looked at them and said, "Why would I do that? That is unethical and I would know the truth."   It's scary to think there are people out there like that. Next thing everyone will need to start doing DNA because of the few that abuse the system. Sad really.



ADGA does do a random sampling of DNA testing of bucks registered every year.  It's like every so many animals registered get picked.  Not sure if it's every 10th, 20th or what ever that's registered but something like that.


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 10, 2015)

babsbag said:


> I was thinking that the original OP wants Minis as the post was titled mini manchas



I think you are correct.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 10, 2015)

babsbag said:


> I was thinking that the original OP wants Minis as the post was titled mini manchas



Not quite sure about that... if so looking at mini's that is not the right direction the percentage must be lower and and all criteria must be met. It takes about 5-6 generations and a lot of work.
Just in case this is the best place to go...

http://www.miniaturedairygoats.net/

These breeders have a wealth of info... Mini Nubes but just the same
http://greengablesmininubians.com/

and this is also a great resource! These are mini manchas...
http://www.glimmercroft.com/


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## dragonlord483 (Feb 10, 2015)

That is what I'm getting I didn't want a large goat to start


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## dragonlord483 (Feb 10, 2015)

Here my new boy I'm getting


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## Southern by choice (Feb 10, 2015)

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww!   

He is a cutie!
Do you already have your doe?


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## jooniper (Feb 10, 2015)

How adorable!   Just a warning though, most F1 Minis I've seen get nearly as big as their standard parent! Especially that high percentage ...


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## Southern by choice (Feb 10, 2015)

jooniper said:


> How adorable!   Just a warning though, most F1 Minis I've seen get nearly as big as their standard parent! Especially that high percentage ...


Yes that percentage is high and will cause the size to be larger. Our mini's... we have 5 are all 24" and under and are about 60-65 lbs. We specifically focus on keeping them mini... but it is an issue. I see no point in a mini that is just shy of 27" and 100+ lbs... that IMO isn't much of a mini.


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## dragonlord483 (Feb 11, 2015)

It what she had at least it not like my dads friend he had goats that were part horse lol they could step over a 6 ft fence


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## dragonlord483 (Feb 11, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> Yes that percentage is high and will cause the size to be larger. Our mini's... we have 5 are all 24" and under and are about 60-65 lbs. We specifically focus on keeping them mini... but it is an issue. I see no point in a mini that is just shy of 27" and 100+ lbs... that IMO isn't much of a mini.


True but work with what you have tgey are f1


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