# Newbie needs advice on owning a cow



## LRJ123 (Sep 12, 2016)

Hello all!

I have been dreaming of owning a Jersey for years. We now have the opportunity and funds to purchase a mini or mid size Jersey (for milk and to raise and sell calves) but I have been researching cow ownership a lot lately and I have some issues I would like to get advice about from you experienced cow people .

We have a small pasture which is very close to a neighbor's pasture that has a large number of beef cattle (including a full grown bull which is always there and various young bulls are present before they are taken to market). Their cows are not tame. Their fencing is barbed wire (t/posts & wooden posts) and they have had issues in the past with cows getting out randomly. Our fencing is field fence and t-posts/wooden posts. After reading horror stories of people's bulls knocking down fences and going through just about anything or anyone to get to a cow in heat, I am wondering if it is even possible for me to have a cow with a bull in such close proximity? The bull has some 30-40 cows of his own so I am wondering if he will be content with his own herd (he stays with the herd all the time, they are never separated)? I also have kids and their safety is my main concern. My second concern is that the full size bull will hurt the smaller cow, and if he gets her pregnant, the larger calf will also endanger my cow. This realization has discouraged me and I am wondering if it is worth taking the chance.

My second question is about keeping a lone cow. I know they are herd animals, but so are horses and most of them can be kept alone successfully. Can they adjust to being a lone cow if they receive a lot of human attention? What about keeping them with a goat? Will the close proximity of the neighbor's cow just make them depressed that they can't be together?

Any advice or thoughts about these issues are appreciated and please be gentle if I have said something stupid LOL...I am new to the cow world. I have worked with horses and goats in the past but never cows!

Thanks!


----------



## greybeard (Sep 12, 2016)

If you and neighbor share a common fence, it will be problematic. If there is a good sized buffer between the 2 pastures, maybe not as much problem as you foresee.
but..
"_Neither God nor man has ever built a fence strong enough or high enough to keep a determined cow in or a determined bull out_"

Don't matter if the neighbor's bull has 10 females to service or 100, the nose knows, he'll simply see yours as just one more in his daily routine, and he'll generally go thru a lot to get to her (and she will do nearly the same to get to him). 12 joules tho and 8kv or higher of HT fence wire is equal to the task. Perhaps neighbor will share the cost of a good elec fence.


You need to determine what breed bull your neighbor has, &  if it's a bull proven to produce low birth weight calves. Best way to keep his bull un-interested is to keep your cow bred, but having said that, good experienced bulls keep most of their weight on their hind hooves, otherwise, every smallish heifer in the herd would be broke down.

Do NOT attempt to substitute human interaction in lieu of same species companionship (make a pet of) any bovine. A recipe for disaster, but sometimes, a nearby cattle herd is enough to placate.


----------



## Latestarter (Sep 12, 2016)

Greetings @LRJ123 Welcome to BYH and potential cow ownership. Hope you'll take some time to browse around the "Cattle" forum. There's quite a bit of good information and knowledge/experience shared there. We also have a relatively new pasture, hay and forages section that may have some useful info for you. Don't know if you still have goats, but we have some great goat folks active here as well. Anyway, glad you joined up! Make yourself at home, and do share some pics if you've a mind to. We're all pretty much pic addicts here.


----------



## farmerjan (Sep 12, 2016)

Hi and welcome to BYH.  I am fairly new to this forum but have had cows for many years.  You can read a little about my stuff but I have had jerseys and guernseys and crossbreds for years as nurse cows and for milk so maybe can help you; and we run beef cattle too.  @greybeard is right, shared fences can be a real problem; especially if the animals have been known to get out.  That said, a good hot wire on top will keep the bull from putting his nose over.  Do you actually share the fenceline? Across the road, or driveway separating them?  And if they are angus, the resulting calf from an unplanned breeding will probably not be a problem.  And if they get together you can give them a shot to abort the preg as little as 3 wks so it wouldn't be a big deal.   I use angus bulls on my dairy cows if I have trouble getting them bred AI, and yes they do mostly keep the bulk of their weight on their hind legs/feet.  Best to at least know what kind of cattle/bull they are.  You can also keep your cow in the barn or a little lot when she comes in heat so that she isn't out there advertising it to the world.  Some are a little crazy when they come in heat and some you barely know it.
Keeping a lone cow isn't that big of a problem, but yeah they like company.  If you have goats that often will work.  If you will be milking twice a day, they will have a fair amount of interaction with you, and a little extra petting, brushing etc will never hurt.  You want a milk cow to be tame and tractable; but not a spoiled brat.  Do you plan on raising a calf for your own beef?  It would be company for the cow.  Is the cow you are interested in already milking or just bred or what is her status?  If she is close to calving then her calf will keep her company.  Do you intend to let her raise her calf and you milk her too or to do all the milking and then bottle feed the calf?  So many variables;  BUT   I would not let the neighbors bull stop you from what you want.  Don"t know where you live but there are different rules for "loose cattle"  and all according to who is responsible for what. If the cattle are a continual problem, you have to be concerned about your kids and your garden and all that.


----------



## LRJ123 (Sep 13, 2016)

Thank you greybeard and farmerjan for your answers!

As far as the fence goes, for most of the time they keep the cows in a pasture where the closest point is about 500 or so feet away so there is a buffer. The part we share a fence with is their hay field but on rare occasions (maybe 1-2 x a year) they do put the cattle in there (either in the late fall or when we have a dry period and their pasture is not great). I do not know the breed and it may be that it is not any certain breed as the herd seems to be kind of a mash-up of different kinds and colors, but I will see if I can get a picture of the bull and post him on here and maybe you guys will know. The one I am looking at is a young heifer, not bred yet, but I do plan on raising calves (leaving the calf with her and milking as well). We will sell weaned bull calves (or eat them if I can bring myself to do it lol) and will probably end up keeping a heifer if she has one, so eventually she would have a permanent friend, just not right away. I have never actually seen the bull out, usually it is one of the heifers or calves and seems to happen when they try to separate them...but it obviously shows there is a problem with the fence and the bull might take advantage of this if there is incentive for him to. What age do bulls start trying to get to females? Do I have to worry about the young ones too? Thanks guys!


----------



## greybeard (Sep 13, 2016)

"What age do bulls start trying to get to females? Do I have to worry about the young ones too?"
Define "trying".... 

As early as 4-5 months, tho they are just "going thru the motions" so to speak at that age, and it's rare that really young ones would test a fence very hard just for the purpose of breeding a neighbor's heifer--they don't have the experience or the strong libido yet.


> I have never actually seen the bull out, usually it is one of the heifers or calves and seems to happen when they try to separate them...but it obviously shows there is a problem with the fence and the bull might take advantage of this if there is incentive for him to.


 heh heh.. I have really good fences--5 strand barbed wire, some hot wire, good posts and wire stretched tight, but, I can still have a weaning aged calf go thru a fence if I crowd them too much. It's always more about how cattle are worked than how good a fence is. The movies you see where cattle are driven along is not how it is done--it's done at THEIR pace, not yours. The older cows and bull know the routine, but the young ones are more apt to go high head on ya and just run. They need to be led, and gently pushed along--not rushed, lots of noise, or anything else that stirs them up. Stay calm always--and the cattle will do the same most of the time.  Cattle want 2 things. To be with other cattle and to go back where they just came from, especially  if you push them too hard. Weaning time an any kind of separation is stressful no matter what, and that's when you are more apt to see cattle go thru or over a fence, even a good fence. Some cows are just prone to being a hi head--they, instead of following the rest of the herd, just linger back, with their head up, lookin all around, ready to bolt at any moment, and their offspring tend to be that way as well. Them kind need to grow wheels and go to market no matter how good a calf they raise. Don't do any good to have a great calf if you can't easily get them gathered, sorted, and penned. Not to mention, they're just outright dangerous. They'll run right over ya if they think it's the only way out.

Yes, post a picture of your neighbor's herd, but I urge you as well to go speak with him, tell him what you have in mind and things will probably work out ok. You are going to need a bull or AI to breed your heifer--your neighbor has a bull--learn from him, and see if he won't work with you as you work with him.


----------



## Latestarter (Sep 13, 2016)

greybeard said:


> ...but I urge you as well to go speak with him, tell him what you have in mind and things will probably work out ok. You are going to need a bull or AI to breed your heifer--your neighbor has a bull--learn from him, and see if he won't work with you as you work with him.



I was just going to post and ask if you had spoken with your neighbor. He's already running a herd, he could potentially be a huge help to you. Would also make things a lot less stressful should either side have a cow cross a fence to the other's side. And then I read Greybeard had said the same thing.


----------



## farmerjan (Sep 13, 2016)

Yep, @greybeard basically said it all.  I think that there will be alot less problems than you think, and there are ways to resolve them.  If you noticed the animals getting out mostly when he was weaning calves that's pretty understandable.  The only way to really keep a newly weaned calf in is real good woven wire and a hot wire and some company of others, and momma no where in sight, and hope.....  There are methods of fence weaning but not anything you need to worry about any time soon.  Most "young" bull calves don't care much about really wanting a female, and are you sure those calves are bulls or have they been "steered"?  They are less likely to want to come visiting if they are steers anyway.  It's more the weaning " I want my momma" than anything at that age.  They can and will go through or over or under fences that you would never think a pig could get through.  If the neighbor is more likely to run the cows in the hayfield that is adjoining in late fall when grass gets short, plan on having the jersey freshen in Mar or April, breed her back in June/July  so she is already pregnant when they are right next door and there will be less temptation anyway.  It might not all work out perfectly, but planning ahead a little will help.  A word of advice, any calves you raise on her, if male, make them steers as they will sell for a better price when it comes time.  Once they hit 5-600 lbs and start to "feel their cheerios" as I say, they will get obnoxious, and bull beef can get rank and tough quick.  Banding/castrating is easier done young. They are easier to work with, quieter and less aggravating.  If you breed her AI and get a jersey bull calf, make him a steer quick as they do mature faster than most breeds and can and will get ideas at 6 months.  Had one breed 3 beef cows and one of my dairy cows ' cuz I wasn't thinking about him being a bull while he was still on one of the cows and I had some surprise calves.  Think he was maybe 6 or 7 months.  Whoops!!!!!


----------



## cjc (Sep 14, 2016)

Exactly what everyone said about the calves getting out. I moved a calf for weaning across a highway to the neighbors pasture. I kid you not that calf walked home! Walked across a hardware store parking lot, across two lanes of traffic, and was standing at our gate! As soon as I opened the gate he ran right back to mama!

If you keep a cow alone I think it really depends on the cow. I have a Jersey who lives with my bottle calves behind a fence. She sleeps next to them against the fences and she is content with that. I have too many calves and worry they will rob her milk as she is just about to calf so I am doing the same, waiting for her baby to keep her company. But, I have also had cows that will jump fences to get to other neighboring cows. I lost one just a few months ago for that reason. If I lock any cow in a paddock away from the herd that is used to being with the herd I have to watch them carefully...they often jump or break down fences. And once you get a jumper, in my opinion, its almost been impossible to break. Every time they feel isolated they are jumping fences.

Cows are herd animals and they desire to be with other cows. I had an orphan calf I started trying to raise alone for a few months and he has been much happier now that he has other calves to live with. He is actually my only calf that tries to mount me all the time. I have to watch my back with him. I think it's because of the human affection I gave to him in the first few months.


----------



## greybeard (Sep 14, 2016)

> And once you get a jumper, in my opinion, its almost been impossible to break. Every time they feel isolated they are jumping fences.


If one runs thru a fence, I can accept that--it happens occasionally -a jumper? Bye bye. He/she/it goes to sale barn with instructions: "kill pen".


----------



## cjc (Sep 15, 2016)

greybeard said:


> If one runs thru a fence, I can accept that--it happens occasionally -a jumper? Bye bye. He/she/it goes to sale barn with instructions: "kill pen".



Have you never had a jumper? I had one last season, a Black Angus that had an udder problem. Big udder, starving calf. I tried to get her in the squeeze to try and milk her to see what the issue was. She jumped over the fence on the way to the squeeze. I couldn't believe it! Then that night we had to separate her because she was ill, we put her in the pasture right beside our herd, only division was a gate. She jumped over that gate then continued to jump 2 barbwire fences and ended on the highway!!! The cops came knocking on the door and everything. Was a nightmare. After that she just continued to jump fences every time there was an obstacle in her way. She got really banged up when she ended up on the highway. We tried to load her into at trailer to do exactly what you said, we couldn't keep her any longer. We ended up having to have her slaughtered right at the farm.


----------

