# Considering Goats. Advice requested.



## dcphotos (Sep 30, 2010)

So I recently got a miniature donkey. He needs friends, and I would like goats. I think it would be a fun experiance to milk them and learn to make cheese as well as other products, and I love goat cheese.

My wife's sister had goats when they were young, and my wife doesn't like them. 
So tell me what I need to convince my better half that goats are a great idea!


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## cmjust0 (Sep 30, 2010)

Have you brought it up yet, or are you just building a case for when you do?


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## lilhill (Sep 30, 2010)

Bring home a couple of kids and she'll definitely be hooked.


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## Roll farms (Sep 30, 2010)

lilhill said:
			
		

> Bring home a couple of kids and she'll definitely be hooked.


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## jodief100 (Sep 30, 2010)

I find people either love goats or hate them.  And sometimes I hate that I love them. 


Ask your wife why she doesn't like them, maybe she just had a bad expereince.  She may just not like them and there isn't much you can do.


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## ()relics (Sep 30, 2010)

lilhill said:
			
		

> Bring home a couple of kids and she'll definitely be hooked.


...and I know just the person that has a few...


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## dcphotos (Sep 30, 2010)

Her sister had one when they were kids, she said it was mean and nasty.

However, I have been given clearance as of today!

So I need to learn what kind of goats I want. There is an add selling dairy goats for $65 in a local paper. 

Any suggestions?

Do I need to breed the females in order to produce milk?


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## cmjust0 (Sep 30, 2010)

Uhhh, not to sound harsh or anything, but......well, judging strictly from the milk question, my suggestion would be to do some serious homework before you actually decide to buy a goat.    

I say that because goats seem to have this mythical reputation as hardy, live-forever-on-nothing creatures that rarely require any kind of assistance or veterinary care, etc..  Not true.  Not true at all.  

It's not terribly uncommon for overwhelmed noobs to come to a forum like this after they're already in WAY over their heads saying things along the lines of "I always thought goats were supposed to be hardy and easy to raise?!!??"  

And, for the record...yes, they gotta kid before they'll come into lactation.


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## glenolam (Sep 30, 2010)

You would either need to buy a doe who is already in milk or buy a doeling and breed her.

There are different types of milk-breed does, so now it depends on size...what size are you looking for?

Also, you should get 2 as they are herd animals and need a friend for comfort.


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## dcphotos (Sep 30, 2010)

Well I got the idea when we were given a miniature donkey, he needs friends. Our great dane really wants to be his friend, he isn't super keen on the dog however. So I'm thinking it's another donkey, or animals that will produce food. 
My wife is a veterinarian, although she is small animal and doesn't know as much about large animals. I'm a photographer, I just love cheese.

I am using the net for my homework now and I'll learn as much as I can before I go into this. I have some serious fencing to build first also. As far as location and climate I live in central Alabama. Our yard is six acres, but I am hoping the donkey and goats could live in an area that is about one acre fenced. We let the donkey out to run around the property when we are home, but put him back in his area at night so he doesn't wander off into the woods.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 30, 2010)

_Edited for content._


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## dcphotos (Sep 30, 2010)

Thanks for being so helpful there cm, you sound like you have a great attitude.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 30, 2010)

dcphotos said:
			
		

> Thanks for being so helpful there cm, you sound like you have a great attitude.


Sorry.  

For the record, I'll help you anyway I can once you get goats.


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## BetterHensandGardens (Sep 30, 2010)

I recommend you buy some baby Nigerian Dwarf doelings (I may be biased), and you can read about some of the advantages of this breed here:  http://www.betterhensandgardens.com/2010/09/15/nigerian-dwarf-goats/ I'd bet your wife will fall for them in 2 seconds flat!  Every female that sees ours immediately starts into how cute they are.


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## freemotion (Sep 30, 2010)

Go visit some places offering goats for sale but leave your wallet and cash and checkbook at home so you won't impulse buy.  Trust me, you will impulse buy!  Goats are awesome, I love 'em all.  Mostly all.

I would strongly recommend that you get a youngish but experienced lactating doe to start with.  You might find one that is lactating right now.  You can learn a lot from this doe, then breed her this fall, dry her off midway through her pregnancy, and start all over in the spring.  Then you will have a better idea of what you really want to do.

I found it overwhelming at first, keeping up with the gallons of milk, but as I got more proficient at making cheese I found that I did not have anywhere near enough milk.  My new goal is three lactating at once.

I had my first baby doeling grow up and have her own baby, and I milked her this year along with the older doe.  The newbie gave me very little milk.  It was extremely difficult to milk her tiny teats, too.  It was a relief to milk the older doe with her easy teats.  

It will be well worth the extra expense to purchase a doe in milk, and you can see how she behaves and how much milk she gives before buying her.  Make your first experience a good one.  She will pay for herself in dairy products fairly quickly.


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## goatsnme (Sep 30, 2010)

Hello, 

First, when you buy a goat, IMHO, you should consider it an investment and require a recent CAE/CL report on the animal from the seller. Because, either of these diseases affect the health of your goat. ( and the results are heartbreaking)
If you wanna make cheese you want a goat that produces high butterfat. The Nigies, although small have a high butterfat, as do the Nubians and LaManchas.  
Inspect the udder of any milking does you can find and learn as much as possible from reliable sources (this and other forms, goat owners in your area, books) BEFORE you buy a goat.
DO NOT buy a buck, they stink and can be nasty. Don't buy ANYTHING WITH horns!
I say these things because I have owned goats since 1987 and have had them with and without horns, as pets n projects n milk n meat, business, and show.
Take care,
Carol Stafford
Goats N Me
Checotah, Oklahoma


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## dcphotos (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks for the help, a friend who used to keep goats recommended LaManchas. 
I'd like to have both milk and cheese, and really need a buddy for our miniature donkey.
I have never made cheese. I've sampled plenty from area makers, and there is only one guy that really impresses. Seems like everyone makes one or two varieties, this guy has blue cheese and so many different ones and they are all amazing. I'm going to try and catch him at the state farmers market tomorrow if he is there and ask for advice.
I will look for a book tomorrow as well.


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## Shootingstars (Oct 1, 2010)

I just want to say good luck with your goaties when you get some.  I say when not if because once you go look you will decide you have to have them.  I love mine!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Oct 1, 2010)

Welcome to BYH!!   I would recomend as well to go and visit a goat farm and see whats going on....Many differant types of goats are out there.  I myself have Toggenbergs...a little larger..great milkers..but Im in the NH so thier very tolerant to cold climates...and feets of snow! LOL

One point, I will make is that they will need daily upkeep, so its very hard for us to ever go away for the weekend, unless we have someone stay.  If their milking,  its every 12 hours.  So they are a commitment. Well worth it to us...but its something to consider.  But with the donkey, I guess you will be around anyway!    

In addition,  I keep a herd record to know whats going on with each and every animal I have...ie...vacinations, injuries, worming, births etc etc etc...and they need thier hooves trimmed too..so read about that chore!! 

They definatley can get themselves in trouble..and injure themselves. They are extremly curious and courageous animals!!  So investigate, fencing, safe toys etc.  Also look into plant poisons.  Important to know! Look at the vegatation around your property.  
They are a joy to us...and like anything else..they are what you put into it!!  Have fun...I hope you find what your looking for!!


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## ohiofarmgirl (Oct 1, 2010)

hey!



> I will look for a book tomorrow as well.


so some of us like:
200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes: From Cheddar and Brie to Butter and Yogurt 
Debra Amrein-Boyes 

see:
http://www.amazon.com/200-Easy-Homemade-Cheese-Recipes/dp/0778802183

it has a lot of goat recipes - including blue (i love goat blue!). 

also you can check out:
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/cheese/cheese.html

Dr Fankhauser is really super..and approachable. 

would love to hear what kind of goaties your farm market person has.


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## dcphotos (Oct 1, 2010)

ohiofarmgirl said:
			
		

> hey!
> 
> [quote}
> would love to hear what kind of goaties your farm market person has.


Hey,

I was buy cheese from his wife at the farmer's market once last year and she told me he was getting more goats and they were being imported from somewhere. 
They make several kinds of cheese. If I could make anything near some of theirs I would be thrilled. They have one that is pressed into a pyramid shaped block and rolled in ashes, another is made with habeneros. 

Is 48" welded wire fencing sufficient? Our donkey corral is that on two sides and wooden rail fence on the other. Our eventual plans are to extend the wooden fence on the side where it's visible from the road and use the wire around the wooded area. 

This may not show up as it's an img link to my facebook:











That's Pinot the donkey.


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## dcphotos (Oct 1, 2010)

I should also mention I'm not really looking into getting a bunch of goats. I was thinking a male and two females, but after reading that a female can produce two quarts of milk a day I think one would be plenty. 

How do goats get along with dogs? We have a great dane that is very playful and loves everything, but not everything is crazy about a 180 lb dog that wants to play with it.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Oct 1, 2010)

ok the donkey is very very cute. and is that (gasp) your wife, THE VET? um.. so you know we love her already, right? feel free to let her log on anytime - we'd love to get free advice!
;-)

fencing is tricky and sometimes depends on the individual goat. there was a recent thread about fencing... tons of great ideas. check it out for the best of the best info. 

for us, we have woven wire AND electric (2 or 3 hot wires) . i went out one morning to find my best milker basically hanging from her udder on the wire fence....so we bought a charger before the sun went down that day. electric works for us really well. remember that you are trying to keep the goaties IN and the predators out. the neighborhood dogs will love your goats - they smell like poop and run when chased. so electric solves all kinds of problems. 

as for your GD, depends on the dog. how is he with your hens?

my 2 GSD are trained not to chase the critters unless commanded... which is only if the goats get out or to help me find lost hens. then the dogs round them up and herd them back in. this actually helps keep the goats in - the dogs are out there patrolling the fence line and they would rather be inside. but i wouldnt let mine unsupervised with the goats. 

lots of folks who have stock have livestock guardian dogs - specific breeds who are hardwired not to chase/kill, but to guard farm stock.  hey look! you could get a new dog to go with the goats!

even if your dog isnt trying to kill the goats, he may hurt little goaties by just "playing" with them.. which can easily turn into prey drive...which results in a sad situation. 

oh and the pyramid cheese your farm market person makes is probably Valencay.. pg 114 on the 200 cheese recipes book. you can get the ash from any of the goat supply places (caprine supply, hoegger, etc)

having 2 is just fine. some folks think that 3 is a better 'herd' number but they can pal around with the little donkey. here, everyone has to work so i wouldnt get a wethered male just as a friend. and we wont have a buck. ever. (but never say never, right!?).


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## dcphotos (Oct 1, 2010)

So you take yours to get bred? I'll get in touch with some goat people and see how all that works.

My wife is very knowledgeable. She used to teach at AU and travels and speaks at conferences a lot, she works at a clinic now. But she is trained in small animal medicine and it's different from large. We know a few large animal vets to call on though and I supposed to get some goat and donkey advice from one this weekend if time allows.

Our dog is very lovable and wouldn't hurt anything intentionally. He is extremely hyper though and like to roughhouse, we have had great dane partys and it's a real hoot to see 6 180 lb. plus dogs play-fighting, and a little scary at times. But it's all about play. As for the chickens I suppose he wants one. They are kept in a run made of 6' high chain link fencing and a horse stall. The top is completely covered with chicken wire as we have a lot of hawks and owls. He likes to charge around the side of the barn and watch all of them run jump and squawk. 

Here is another photo, albeit a little gross. They were having a spat, the dog pooed and the donkey immediately pooed on top of the dog poo:






The dog is lovable though, he really wants that donkey to play. Donkey just ain't into it.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 1, 2010)

Cracks me up that the dog is the same size as the donkey! 

You may want to consider getting 2 goats. If you could breed them at different times, then you could have milk all year round and basically only one would be in milk at a time.


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## Shootingstars (Oct 1, 2010)

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6322

This is the fencing thread I started and got a ton of great advice, still not sure what I am doing yet though!  Lots of info!


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## dcphotos (Oct 1, 2010)

Thanks, I'll check that out. We are going to finish the corral for now tomorrow morning.
Then I'm going to clean out a stall and build a hay rack, perhaps even stain some of the barn boards and put up some fancy light fixtures so the little donkey can live like a thoroughbred. 
Next up will involve running that welded wire through what is now partly wooded, and there is some serious brush to cut down and it's full of poison ivy and all kinds of nasty stuff. Clearing it is going to be a big job. We are in a drought and they put a ban on burning, and the ground is really hard in places so I'm getting my back workouts digging post holes. When that job is done we put up more wood fence and the larger area will be complete. 
Eventually we will run the welded wire fence across the whole wooded area so our entire yard is grazing land, but we will probably put them in the enclosure at night and when we are gone.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Oct 1, 2010)

great work, Shootingstars.. thats just the one!

K - i was thinking the same thing!

Big Mister Woof might be too rough and tumble for the goaties. as you know big dogs, can go for 'loveable doofus' to "ohmigosh he ate the goat' in a hot second. but i'm bettin' he'll be a good reason for the goats to stay IN the fence! if he likes to chase the hens i would not leave him unsupervised.

and yep we take our ladies to be bred. there is a lot of hot debate about this on this board tho, and everyone has to do what is best for them. but wow with your wife in the know with big animal vets you could probably do AI and be done with it. 

the long and short is you need to balance the risk of disease with what works best for you. we use very reputable breeders that we've known for a while and dont consider it to be high risk. especially since we are not pros - just regular farm-y types. 

this is our position on goat breeding:
http://adventuresinthegoodland.blogspot.com/2010/09/what-i-know-about-goat-breeding.html. 

you can always get a buck or a buckling and then sell them after .. um.. er.. their chores are done. Freemotion does this and it works for her. 

but one whiff of the bucks at the breeder this past week and no way for us. and again, we wouldnt keep an animal who has only one job.  bucks usually are housed/penned separately from the ladies - especially dairy gals. 

ask around. dont forget your local 4H clubs - they are probably plugged into the local goat scene. and the big animal vets you know will have good recommendations.


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