# New LGD puppy.  :D



## cmjust0 (Mar 15, 2010)

She was born at the end of October, so she's about 4-1/2 months old at this point.  Probably weighs around 50lbs or thereabout.  She's 75% Great Pyrenees, 25% Sarplaninac.







She doesn't have an official name yet..  We thought she was going to be Natasha, but three-syllable dog names can be a PITA...and we already have a Sasha, so Tasha might be weird.  We considered Niko or Nico, too, but it seems to be mostly a boy name.  I dunno...she'll get a name eventually.  

Her temperament, so far, is different from Ivan.  When we set her out in the barnyard, she reacted to the goats like our housedogs react to us when we come home after being away for a while.  Ran right over to them, tail wagging, submissive, whining and crying...very, very excited to see her 'friends.'  

They, of course, had a much different reaction.    They're used to Ivan, who more or less ignores them, so a dog running at them under full steam, making squealie noises, was a bit of a departure to say the least.  As such, they split the herd and left her standing.    They really wanted nothing to do with her at all..

They stayed out of the barn most of the night, and she laid as close to them as she could get without spooking them.  When it started sprinkling, they finally headed to the barn..  She knew if she got too close, they'd freak, so she laid out in the weather all night with her head turned toward the door of the barn.  

I went down and finally _carried her_ into the barn, just so she'd know it was OK to be in there.  The goats hung around like I knew they would, rather than go out in the rain..  She laid down in front of the stall where their hayfeeder is, and I saw them come to her sorta one by one, investigating..  Each time, she'd wiggle all over and get really super submissive.

When we went down to feed last night, she gobbled her food down and came right back to lay in the barn near the hayfeeder.  When we walked back to the house, she followed along whining the whole time.  About the time my wife said "I hope she goes back to the barn," she stopped following.  When we got to the gate, I said "As soon as we get out of sight, I'm sure she'll go back."

Well...it didn't even take that.  As soon as we opened the gate and she saw we were leaving, she turned and sprinted straight back to the barn to be with the goats.

Here's the coolest thing..  The night we got her home, when we went out to feed, one of our border collies was out sniffing around outside the fenceline of the barnyard.  We were both in the barn and all of a sudden we hear our GSD barking really loudly, and really closely.  She was supposed to be in the house...how'd _she_ get out?

I poked my head out and, lo and behold, it wasn't the GSD barking -- it was the pup!  To see such a big noise coming out of such a little body....well, it didn't even _look_ right.  She was barking and growling at the BC, but unlike Ivan, she didn't charge the fenceline....she hung back, glancing continually toward the barn.

We're hoping that this one will hang right in with the goats 24/7..  If she does, then we'll have a big, tough boy who's pre-wired to immediately charge a threat, and pretty tough gal who's pre-wired to stay right in with the herd...totaling probably 300lbs of dog.

I don't care what kind of predator you are...that's a formidable combination.

BTW...you might notice that her left eye is a little puffy.  Dunno what happened, but she was like that the morning after we got her home.  It looked to have gone down a little last night, but I didn't get to check her this morning.  Need to grab a few things from the vet's office soon anyway, so I might pick up some antibiotic eye goop.


One more thing...and forgive me, but.....isn't she just absolutely ADORABLE?!?!?


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## Roll farms (Mar 15, 2010)

But...but....you don't LIKE pyrenees....

*runs away*

(Said all in good fun, pal  )

eta, she IS gorgeous, congrats!


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## ksalvagno (Mar 15, 2010)

She is just adorable! I love the black face.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 15, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> But...but....you don't LIKE pyrenees....
> 
> *runs away*
> 
> ...


Where's a :eatingmywords emoticon when you need one?

Perhaps what I should have said all along was that anytime you get a dog breed that's being taken from the barnyard to the living room, you're gonna get degradation in working temperament.

That gets hairy when the living room variety is bred to the working variety, and sold under the guise of working stock.

This pup's daddy is a crackerjack, though.  Beautiful dog, truly..  You could look at him and tell he's not your average $40 Craigslist "Pryanees" that so many people seem to get in trouble with....the ones that lead to "FTGH:  Grate Pryanes.  Has kilt goats" Craigslist ads.

He growled and barked at me when I approached the fence, whereas this dog's mama was all about getting her head scratched..  She works, but she's been handled a lot as a dam.  The owner said "She won't bite.  Him, I dunno."  Owner also told me over the phone "he can be a little mean."

Well, phffft.

Once he saw me petting the pup's mama, he came over and sniffed my hand to investigate.  I'm so used to Ivan and watching him work that I know when one's angry/fearful/confident enough to bite, and this dog certainly wasn't.  

I took him right under the chin with my hand and he went stone still.  

I scratched his chin and he was like "Hey, this guy's not so bad!" so then I scratched the top of his head.  After that, he was looking for attention just like the dam.  

 

That said, I'm glad to have Ivan around...  This little gal is just super sweet so far, to the point that I'm pretty sure she'd let someone steal her.    She's pretty submissive to people, as well as to goats.  I don't find it to be _lesser_ than Ivan's temperament, mind you...just totally different, but equally as impressive.  She seems to be just a different kind of dog so far, which is perfectly OK.

She did bark her little head off when the border collie came snooping along the fenceline after dark, though.  Definitely a good sign..  The goats responded to her bark by running out of the barn and huddling up, too, which I thought was super cool.  They're used to hearing Ivan's angry bark, and hers sounds enough like his that they've already had all their training on it.



We think the two should make a really good duo.  One to range about and run offense, one to stay in close with the goats and run defense.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 15, 2010)

I want one!


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## Roll farms (Mar 15, 2010)

I've found our female pyr stays back and watches the goats while Razor (RIP, buddy) used to charge the fence and 'attack'...maybe that's not so much a breed thing but a sex / temperament thing...?

Mebbers if you breed the two in a few years, I'll want a pup...they'd make pretty ones!  (Not to mention great LGD's).


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## cmjust0 (Mar 15, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I've found our female pyr stays back and watches the goats while Razor (RIP, buddy) used to charge the fence and 'attack'...maybe that's not so much a breed thing but a sex / temperament thing...?
> 
> Mebbers if you breed the two in a few years, I'll want a pup...they'd make pretty ones!  (Not to mention great LGD's).


Consider yours reserved, if you want it.  

And, you may be right..  Maybe it's the temperament of the individual dog, and perhaps sex has something to do with it.  I'm sure it does, in fact.

Personally...and lots of folks object to this, but...I tend to think the bigger the "deep down fraidy cat" the dog is, the more quickly and aggressively it will respond.  That's because I think it's a fear-aggressive response..  Or, at least, a _modified_ fear aggression..  Could call it "threat aggressive" or whatever..  The bigger the perceived threat, the bigger the response.

I say that feeling like, deep down, Ivan -- for all his formidable capability and awesome LGD qualities -- acts the way he does only because he's scared to death something's gonna come git'im one night.  

 

As such, he can be a bit of an 'over-reactor,' which frankly is what I want in a LGD.


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## mordarlar (Oct 22, 2010)

I was just running a Google search on the cross to show DH and found your lovely girl.  If and when, we're definitely interested : )


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## Beekissed (Oct 22, 2010)

Beautiful dog!  I like her instincts already...should make a great LGD.


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## elevan (Oct 22, 2010)

Beautiful dog!

Funny thing though...if you put horns on her, she'd look just like my buck Speedy! 

He's a pygmy and has the exact same coloring right down to the black face!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 22, 2010)

Hey CM, any updated pictures?


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## rittert3 (Oct 23, 2010)

I'm been around and heard about alot of great pyrenese the last 10 years, and my educated opinion is that females make some of the best LGDs in the world but unless your fence will keep the dog in too, males arn't worth the gas to pick them up for free. And often times around the breeders around here do give the males away for free while the female pups go from 250-300$ ea. I've heard of and known so many males that wondered off, got hit by cars, and even trains just with in a few months of being employed. I've never heard of a female roaming off in anyway and my conclusion is that the males have a good nose and strong sex drive and any time they catch a wiff of a female in heat they're gone.


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## lilhill (Oct 23, 2010)

Congratulations on the new pup ... but she looks so sad in that photo.    Would love to see an updated one.  She's a beautiful animal and from what you've said thus far, should make a great LGD.   

I really need to start thinking about getting another one for my Great Pyr, Daisy, to help train.  I have just come to depend on Daisy so much to take care of everyone that it's one of those things I keep putting off.


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## Roll farms (Oct 23, 2010)

Ahem....just wanted to reassert my place as 1st in line for a male pup.  


When can I expect it???


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## Beekissed (Oct 23, 2010)

I got two new LGDs this week!  My old GP mix girl has failing health and may have to be put down soon, so I jumped on the free Newfie mix puppies in our local ads.  

They look like pure Newfies and are adorable! 

 I've always wanted a Newfie since I was a little girl and, after reading up on the breed more recently, I'm very pleased to have found them.


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## Roll farms (Oct 23, 2010)

I have a newfie, Bee, and I agree they are great dogs....but I asked around before I fixed our male and was told they don't make great LGD's...they'll guard / alert, but they don't "bond" w/ livestock as well as an LGD should.  
And since they're notorious softies, they don't do agression well.

I thought crossing him to our pyr would give me some awesome dogs...but the experts on all the Livestock lists strongly discouraged me.

We ended up crossing ours to an Anatolian instead and have been pleased w/ the offspring.

I'm NOT saying it won't work....just that it might not.  I wish you luck w/ it though.

Also, to rittert3, our male pyr never left the fence once in 8 years.  He was fixed at 7 mos. of age....  Edge (female, intact) has attempted to dig out once when in heat.


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## Beekissed (Oct 24, 2010)

Roll, my acreage is small....one acre...so they don't have to live with the livestock out in a field somewhere.  They just have to exist in the yard and not let other predators enter here.  

I still have a great lab/bc mix that performs this function well also.  As long as they develop a territorial stance towards any stray dogs or 'yotes that may want to investigate my sheep or chickens, I'll be happy. 

So...how do you like your Newf?  Can you post a pic of him and the offspring you got from the cross?  I bet they look interesting!


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## rittert3 (Oct 24, 2010)

Thats great about your male, roll, not so much about the female. I was just speaking on the GP's I have known and heard tell of locally. I often wondered about a neutered male staying closer but also wondered if it would take a away from his tenacity toward predators, I'm guessing this is not the case?


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## Roll farms (Oct 24, 2010)

> Roll, my acreage is small....one acre...so they don't have to live with the livestock out in a field somewhere.  They just have to exist in the yard and not let other predators enter here.
> 
> I still have a great lab/bc mix that performs this function well also.  As long as they develop a territorial stance towards any stray dogs or 'yotes that may want to investigate my sheep or chickens, I'll be happy.


Ah, Bee...that makes sense.



> So...how do you like your Newf?  Can you post a pic of him?


I also dreamt of one day owning a Newf.  

This is "Boogerman" on the day we brought him home....







A more recent pic...he's 5 now.






He is a good dog... he's a house newf.  Probably not one of my better ideas.... that's a lot of hair to shed inside (we usually shave him every spring now) and he ate about half the furniture (and my glasses and the CUTEST brand new pair of shoes you've ever seen...grrr....until he got past the puppy stage).  
He does a great job of letting us know when someone's here and since I'm here alone a lot while dh is at work, he does make me feel pretty safe...he's harmless but sure doesn't look or sound like it.



> offspring you got from the cross?  I bet they look interesting!


The Anatolian x pyr litter...all 11  (12 born, one didn't make it....)






The one we kept, "Gus"...he looks pure Anatolian.  He's a year old now.






You can see the parents (Tank and Edge) here:

http://www.rollfarms.com/id20.html



> Thats great about your male, roll, not so much about the female. I was just speaking on the GP's I have known and heard tell of locally. I often wondered about a neutered male staying closer but also wondered if it would take a away from his tenacity toward predators, I'm guessing this is not the case?


Razor, the fixed male we had....was just awesome.  The kind of LGD who'd go up in the air after a low flying hawk or refuse to come in and eat until you'd 'seen' his latest kill (skunk, coon, possum, etc.).  The one flaw he had was his agression to any people not 'us'....hence neutering him so young....but that didn't stop it.  He bit one of my friends on the rear the last year he was alive for 'daring' to step into our barn.  (The friend didn't know Razor was in there.... )

He once nearly ground his nose / lips into hamburger when an idiot neighbor's dog kept taunting him at the fence....he was trying so hard to bite him he was mashing his soft tissue into the fence wire.  He looked like he'd been attacked by a grizzly.

Fixing him did NOTHING to slow down his willingness to guard, and since he didn't worry about breeding, he was super-focused 'on the job.'

I just thought I'd point out that not *all* males try to leave....I think it has a lot to do w/ how bonded they are.  He adored our old fat sheep Pokey....they did everything together.  He guarded everything, but she was his 'pet'.


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## Beekissed (Oct 24, 2010)

Roll, those are absolutely the most beautiful dogs!!!  Your Newfie looks just like mine only bigger!!!  

My GP mix female is a roamer and a rover.  If she were not contained with invisible wireless fencing she would be roaming out each night, even as old as she is.  She always comes home but she loves to roam.  

Must be the lab part of her that does this....before we contained her wander lust I would get reports that someone saw her in a full and frozen point stance down by the river.  She looks more GP than lab so this must have been comical to see!


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## greenfamilyfarms (Oct 24, 2010)

Look at that face!!! 

She looks like of like a Baboon.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 25, 2010)

Yeah, I'm definitely going to have to get an updated photo of her on here..  She was absolutely brand spankin' new in that photo, soppy wet, a little confused, etc.  She's become -- no, wait...she's BLOSSOMED into a truly beautiful young lady and her guardianship has only gotten better over the last 7mos.  She's every bit the dog that Ivan is, albeit for different reasons.  I hadn't necessarily counted on her being yet another guardian whose genetics I'd hate to lose, but she is.  

And, uh...well...it's impossible to know whether dogs like these are still going to be with us a year from now, so when Mischa started getting frisky a little while back, we just sorta turned a blind eye and let them do their thing.  

I know -- it's bad, because she's just barely a year old -- but the reality is that Mischa's primary purpose was to carry Ivan's progeny.  And then she goes and turns out super too..  If either were to die before we got pups out of them, I would never have forgiven myself..  


They definitely have different styles, though.  Mischa follows the goats around unobtrusively while Ivan basically just sprawls out down near the gate with one eye open 24/7, and he has this uncanny knack of showing up wherever there's "activity"...like yesterday when I was waaaaaaay in the back of the property looking for a short in my fence and poof...there he is...no goats, no Mischa, he just walked on back there because he heard a truck running.  Slipped right up on me...had I been a trespasser, I'd have most likely soiled my britches.    He followed me all the way back out, too..  Plus, if I *had* to pit one of them against a big coyote, it would definitely be Ivan -- he's probably time and a half the size of Mischa and seems far more likely to *want* to kill something like that.

But Mischa follows the goats..  And she's such a sweet baby..    And there's the fact that I don't have to secure Mischa in the backyard if we have visitors since she's just kind of aloof and growly/barky, but she goes the other way if a stranger comes near.  I don't necessarily *like* that she backs down from strangers so easily, to be honest, but I don't always like how worked-up Ivan gets either. 

Six in one hand....

Basically, I think they're each good enough that crossing either one with a lesser dog would still yield decent guardians..  In crossing the two with each other, my hope is that they're a blend of both...more 'follow' than Ivan, more size than Mischa, less wimpiness toward strangers than Mischa, less WAR-on-all-things-unfamiliar than Ivan, etc..

BUT...if some are like mom, and some are like dad, that'd be OK too.  

Need to get Mischa to the vet, actually..  She needs a checkup and, oh, I dunno....an ultrasound, perhaps.    


Ok, so...more pictures!  I'll see what I can do..  I don't have a digital camera right now.  Nor a regular camera.  I don't have a phone with a camera, either.  Nor a home computert...but I'll figure something out!


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## Roll farms (Oct 25, 2010)

But...so....like...I'm still getting a pup, RIGHT????????


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## cmjust0 (Oct 25, 2010)

I reckon we'll just have to see if I have any to spare.


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 25, 2010)

cm, didn't you say you'd been wanting to take a trip to MD?    You can bring a pup with you!!     Sounds like a plan to me!


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## cmjust0 (Oct 25, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> He once nearly ground his nose / lips into hamburger when an idiot neighbor's dog kept taunting him at the fence....he was trying so hard to bite him he was mashing his soft tissue into the fence wire.  He looked like he'd been attacked by a grizzly.


Ivan's mastered the art of through-fence fighting.  He's seperated from the way-overly-aggressive thyroid-afflicted border collie mostly by a 4" sheep/goat fence.  And gates, of course, and some hi-tensile..  But Mandy (the bc) is smart enough to pick fights across the woven wire, lest she get her head ripped off.

Watching them fight through that fence is a thing to behold.  Mandy can get her nose through where Ivan really can't, which is cool with Ivan, because then he just bites her nose when it comes through like it's a game of whack-a-mole.  He's *lightning fast* with his chompers, too..  He always walks away with his tail wagging while Mandy walks away snorting and sneezing from getting her nose snapped on.

What's funny is how Mischa now gets in on the action.  When she was younger, she'd run up and shuffle alongside Ivan with her tail wagging, watching his every move like "HOW DO YOU DO THAT!?  I WANNA DO THAT!!"  She'd bark occasionally, and maybe snap a little..  What always amazed me was that -- even in a "frenzy" of guardianship with Mischa barking and snapping right in his ear -- Ivan *never once* turned on Mischa.  I was always worried of that and kinda just expected that it was gonna happen one day, but it never did.  He's apparently got an amazing amount of awareness and self control to look so out-of-control..  

She was watching and learning, though...wanting to be like the big guy.  I think he sorta recognized that, in a way.  Now?...forget it.  They BOTH come at Mandy like buzzsaws through that fence and she just keeps literally sticking her nose where it doesn't belong.



> I just thought I'd point out that not *all* males try to leave....I think it has a lot to do w/ how bonded they are.


Ivan isn't bonded to crap, and he doesn't try to go anywhere.  He's not a Pyr, of course, but these dogs all have a similar temperament..

I believe he's frankly too high-strung to be a wanderer....too much of a worry wart.  He seems to *appreciate* gates and fences and all the other things that keep the big bad world away from him.  He's come through the barnyard gate precisely twice in the entire time we've had him:  once in a Jeep to get his rabies shot, and the other time in a Suburban to have his leg surgery.  Otherwise, you can leave the gate standing wide open and he just comes down there and paces around like "HEY....can somebody come shut this please?!?!  You're letting the whole world into my happy place and I'm not liking it AT ALL!!!"

(You guys love how I quote my dogs, dontcha? )


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## Roll farms (Oct 25, 2010)

Our female pyr seems to be 'running away from' anyone new who comes up to the fence, and that really bothered me at first....Razor (and now Gus) would run AT the fence / new thing / person and go off...while Edge sort of tucked tail and took off.....I was almost disappointed.

Once I really started watching though, I saw that what she's doing is running TO the goats.  She rounds them up / chases them to the barn....then stands there and won't let them out until the threat 'leaves' or the other dog lets her know it's ok.

Amazing how smart they work.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 26, 2010)

Mischa's definitely more attached to the goats than Ivan is, so maybe that's the deal.  He could care less about the goats, really -- it's HIM he's interested in keeping safe, and everything else out there is kept safe as a consequence.  

I'll pay closer attention next time I see her do that..  Maybe that's what her deal is.

I did see Ivan "herd" everyone to the barn once..  The goats learned to come to him when his bark gets really angry, so they all flocked to him one day when someone was walking down the road.  He was super worked up about it and then it's like...hey...what are all these goats doing around me?!?  He's barking, then looking at the goats like "SHEW!  GIT!  GO AWAY, I'M WORKING!"

Finally he went after some of the goats and ran them all into the barn, then shot right back out and continued barking at the person going down the road..

It was kinda funny, really..  He obviously didn't intend to put them in the barn so they'd be safe...I think he just wanted them out of his face so he could do his thing.


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## poorboys (Oct 26, 2010)

we have 2 great pry's female and male, when i go to feed them the male stands back untill the female is done, but I have one goat that contunies to eat their dogfood. I feed everyone at the same time just so the goats leave the dogs alone, but one is determined to eat their food. How bad is this for her,??? right now she's dryed and breed. Don't want her to get sick. and lighting the male pry stand's back and lets her eat. Patty


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## cmjust0 (Oct 26, 2010)

Umm...well, it's not good.  Lots of dogfood contains ruminant parts, and feeding ruminant parts to ruminants is how you get things like scrapie, mad cow, etc.  It's against federal law for that very reason.

I had a similar situation with our Boer doe...very food oriented animal.  Ivan would more or less fend her off by growling or snapping at her, but she'd hover until he was done and then she'd go try to eat his food.

What I did was add a raw egg to his food dish.  Adding a raw egg encouraged him to eat more (he's picky) and the goat wouldn't have anything to do with his food once the egg had been cracked on it.  

Might give that a shot.


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## jodief100 (Oct 26, 2010)

poorboys said:
			
		

> we have 2 great pry's female and male, when i go to feed them the male stands back untill the female is done, but I have one goat that contunies to eat their dogfood. I feed everyone at the same time just so the goats leave the dogs alone, but one is determined to eat their food. How bad is this for her,??? right now she's dryed and breed. Don't want her to get sick. and lighting the male pry stand's back and lets her eat. Patty


I bring my dogs into the interier of the barn and shut them away from the goats to feed them.  They are left in for about 15-20 minutes twice a day to eat.  They have learned they have to eat within the alloted time or they don't get to eat.  

It works great until one of the feral cats decides to let itself be seen and then the dogs spend thier 20 minutes trying to get the cat.


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## Roll farms (Oct 26, 2010)

We feed our dogs inside the barn....same as Jodie says....they know to eat while I'm doing chores or else they're SOL and go hungry for the next 12 hours.
If a goat comes in and there is feed left in the pan, they'll try and snarf some.
A few years ago I had a severely anemic doe who wanted ONLY dog food, she'd try everything to get to it.  The vet said she "knew" she needed a feed w/ more fat / protien than hers had.  Once she was well again the craziness for dog food stopped.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 26, 2010)

The primary dog food offender in our herd is *the* fat one.  Perpetually fat and slick, and -- as luck has it -- extremely resistent (or perhaps resilient, I suppose) to the effect of barberpoles.  She's 4-1/2 now and keeps so easily it's astounding.  A really, really good goat.  Ornery, but good, and an excellent mama who makes excellent babies to boot.

I dunno what's ever gonna kill that goat, but suffice it to say that I wouldn't rule A) choke or B) a massive, tubbiness-induced coronary.


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## dianneS (Oct 26, 2010)

cmjust0: Wow, congratulations on the new pup.  I hadn't caught this thread until now.  Sounds like she's going to be great.  I hope you don't go through any of the "growing pains" that I did with my boy, if you remember!  But you'll know how to handle it if you do.

My once horror-of-horrors of a dog has blossomed into an amazing animal.  I can't imagine being without him now.  I don't have any need for a second dog at this time, but some day we will want another one so that we won't be without a LGD when the day comes that Alex is gone.

I just got an email from the woman I got my dog from.  She said she's disappointed in some of the puppies, and seems to think that the great pyr in them is what has caused some problems with them.  Her female (my dogs mom) was 1/2 great pyr 1/2 Karakachan.  She had a tough time with that dog after she had her first litter and had to re-home her.  This woman seems to blame all problems that anyone has had with their pups on the mamma dog and the great pyr in her?  I personally think that these particular dogs just take a lot of patience and persistence, some people just give up on them too easy.  I'm so glad I stuck it out with my dog.  It certainly paid off!

 I've had no problems with Alex since we got through his "growing pains".  I don't see anything wrong with his behavior or temperment. 

Alex is more likely to stick with his goats rather than go out after a predator.  Apparently this is a Karakachan trait, I'm told.  That's good enough for me.  All I need is a loud barker to keep the predators away around here.  We're not fighting off wolves or bears.

I had to go out and see what the trouble was a few times this summer.  I took my mag light out, in my bathrobe, and found Alex standing up at the fence.  He literally pointed at the trouble maker... the fox.  The short-haired Samson's fox that has been running around our property for the past year.  That fox is bold, but keeps his distance now that the dog is here.  I chased the fox away, threw some rocks at him and yelled.  As soon as he was gone, Alex took a head count of all of his goats.  He was quiet the rest of the night, and the goats slept in late the next morning!

I can't say enough about what a great dog he is and how I can't imagine not having a LGD now.  I'm so glad I didn't give up on him.  I wanted too, many times.  Thanks everyone on here for all of your help and advice and encouragement!

Here are some updated pics of my boy, now that he's filling out.  He's getting huge!  












He's winking at you!


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## Roll farms (Oct 26, 2010)

He's a hottie!

SO glad you stuck it out w/ him....Glad he's a 'good dog' now.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 26, 2010)

me said:
			
		

> By the time he's...say...two years old, I'd wager that you're not gonna be able to imagine life without him around.


and now you say ...



			
				you said:
			
		

> My once horror-of-horrors of a dog has blossomed into an amazing animal.  I can't imagine being without him now.


Now I don't wanna have to go and say I told ya so or anything like that, but seriously...I did.  Almost verbatim.



  

He's a very, very pretty boy and I'm SOOOOO happy that you stuck it out with him.  He seemed to have what it took all along, but just needed some correction.  It's *got* to be a good feeling to know that, while his breeders have had terrible luck with the rest of the litter, you stuck it out and are being rewarded so handsomely..

Just awesome to hear!


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## dianneS (Oct 26, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> me said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know!  You did, you did tell me so!  I'm so glad too.  Thanks so much!


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## Beekissed (Oct 26, 2010)

That is a beautiful animal!!!  What breed mix is he?  I can practically FEEL that fur...it looks so soft!


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## cmjust0 (Oct 26, 2010)

I kinda have a special place for problem LGDs, I guess..  That's how I came to have Ivan -- he was the ultimate problem child.    I tell folks that he "only" tried to bite me 3 times the day we met him -- and that's absolutely true -- and it's not as if he didn't engage in a little teenage boredom behavior as a younger man, too.  "Youthful indescretions," as it were.  

It happens.

LGD owners don't like to talk about it because they think their dog is "defective" or something, but the fact of the matter seems to be that *a lot* of folks end up buying LGDs from noobie LGD owners/breeders with instructions that go something like:

"This dog is magic.  It's made of magic, and it runs on magic.  Do not interfere with the magic that is your new dog.  If you pet and/or love on the dog, the magic will disappear.  The dog will magically know what to do, now, forever, and always, and will never need any correction.  Toss it in the goat pen, stand back, and watch the magic happen."

For some dogs, that may be true.  They may never make a mistake nor require any correction..  For a good many more, however, it's just not true at all.  And when it turns out to NOT be true for a given dog, nobody has answers because...well...they're *supposed* to be magic!...right?

So, I kinda make it my mission to spread the word that they're not magic....THEY'RE DOGS.    Your dog isn't defective -- your dog is a dog, and dogs need correction from time to time.  Some more than others!  

It's OK..  Its' really OK.


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## Roll farms (Oct 26, 2010)

Everyone who got a pup from me were given strict, "DO NOT put this pup in w/ kids or does due to kid.  PLEASE.  Wait until they're at least 18 mos to introduce them and then MONITOR the behavior"  Along w/ about 20 links to reputable LGD breeders' sites, info, etc...and my best advice on how to start them, when to fix them, etc.

Don't you just know in about 5 mos. I got an "OMG the dog ripped a kid's ear off" email.

It's generally the owner's fault when things go wrong, either through ignorance or being told the wrong thing...but it makes me MAD when a dog isn't given what he needs most to 'become' a good guardian....time and a chance to grow up.


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## dianneS (Oct 27, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> LGD owners don't like to talk about it because they think their dog is "defective" or something, but the fact of the matter seems to be that *a lot* of folks end up buying LGDs from noobie LGD owners/breeders with instructions that go something like:
> 
> "This dog is magic.  It's made of magic, and it runs on magic.  Do not interfere with the magic that is your new dog.  If you pet and/or love on the dog, the magic will disappear.  The dog will magically know what to do, now, forever, and always, and will never need any correction.  Toss it in the goat pen, stand back, and watch the magic happen."
> 
> For some dogs, that may be true.  They may never make a mistake nor require any correction..  For a good many more, however, it's just not true at all.  And when it turns out to NOT be true for a given dog, nobody has answers because...well...they're *supposed* to be magic!...right?


That is exactly what I was told.  The woman who sold him to me told me that her male was just tossed in the goat pen at 5 months old and he did his job.  She told me not to interfere with him, do not "train" him, just let him run on instincts.  That may have been true for her dog, but not for mine.  So, she began blaming the great pyr blood in her female for the difficulty I was having?


My pup did have very good instincts in the beginning, but when he hit that adolescent stage, things kind of went haywire.  Also, the introduction of new goats sort of messed with his head too.  We now have a system for introducing new goats.  Alex gets tied to a tree where he can see what's going on.  The goats get to know one another and once they work out their herd dynamic, then Alex gets to meet the goats.  It works just fine.  Every new goat I've introduced has never seen a LGD before so they are easily intimidated by a dog and Alex as a puppy, would take full advantage of that, chasing them of course.

The last two goats I introduced were fainters.  We had no problem at all introducing them.  The dog scared them, they fainted, the dog stepped over them and continued on his way.  Nothing very exciting about a goat lying on the ground.  Now when the fainters fall over, Alex checks on them to see if they're okay, but  he really doesn't fuss with them much and the goats are perfectly comfortable with the dog now, walking under his belly and lying down with him.

I have to say the introduction of a big, full-sized, horned and mean doe really helped Alex with his training!  She was a god-send.  All of my goats are dwarf breeds except for her.  She keeps that dog in his place!  She would chase, head-butt and even bite him, pulling out big tufts of his fur!  They get along pretty well now and play together a lot.  She wears him out for me!

Oh, BTW I only have one LGD, but when I went to see Alex and his littermates, I watched them work as a team.  Even though Karakachan's are supposed to stay close with the herd, when there are more than one of them with the goats, one will hang back with the goats while the other heads out and patrols.  It was neat to watch.  Some of the goats left their shelter and two pups took off with them while the other hung back with the remaining goats.

@ Beekissed:  He's 3/4 Karakachan and 1/4 Great Pyr.


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## jodief100 (Oct 27, 2010)

I bought two adult LGDs that had lived with goats their whole lives.  I suspect that was the ONLY honest thing the owner told me about them.  The male was about a year and the female 3.  They had obviously never been off the farm they had been born on.  They were TERRIFIED the entire trip home.  We pulled the car up to the pen and opened the back.  They just lay there sprawled on the floor of the car in a crouch low because everything is scary position.  Then they saw the goats.  The hopped out and got right to work.  It was like a hey, I know what to do here! moment.  The female was skittish, afraid of people and wouldnt let any men near here, just me.  The male was rambunctious and tried to play with the goats. He needed some discipline and to be taught his boundaries but now they are wonderful.  They work great in a team.  One will run the boundaries while the other will watch from a high position and round up the goats if needed.  It is fascinating to watch.  They will both come up and ask for head scratches and pets and then go back to work.  Snowy, the female still doesnt like strangers but she is good with us.

We were told the same thing; let them go they know what to do.  Junior needed to learn  not to chase goats.  He still does it every now and them but is just starting to outgrow his teenage years at three.  The goats will lie down and snuggle with him. Snowy is more of the fence patrol type. 

I did speak with someone last year who has researched LGDs for 30 years all over the world.  He said any breed will make a good LGD if the dog is introduced to the guarded animals young (3 weeks old is ideal) and is disciplined properly.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 27, 2010)

dianneS said:
			
		

> That is exactly what I was told.  The woman who sold him to me told me that her male was just tossed in the goat pen at 5 months old and he did his job.  She told me not to interfere with him, do not "train" him, just let him run on instincts.  That may have been true for her dog, but not for mine.


That's what we were told when we got Mischa @ 5-1/2mos, and we did pitch her right on out there..  Never have I seen a dog so happy to see a bunch of goats.

Still...we knew better than to *expect* everything to be trouble-free.  We've been lucky so far, but she's super rowdy sometimes...with Ivan!    If she were out there by herself in the wound-up, teenaged, bored-silly, weather-cooling-off mentality, there would almost certainly be some goat chasin' going on.  

But she has Ivan to play with.  



> So, she began blaming the great pyr blood in her female for the difficulty I was having?


Pyr owners here know that I was never a big fan of Pyrs before Mischigirl, and I'm still of the opinion that Pyrs -- on the whole -- just ain't what they used to be.  I'm not the only one who feels that way, which may be why his breeder was quick to blame the Pyr blood..

I've heard *a bunch* of horror stories about Pyrs..  Seen too many craigslist ads for "has killed goats"/"has killed chickens" Pyrs..  I knew a guy who had a Pyr that picked out *one* goat to try and kill for no apparent reason at all, and thus had to be chained 24/7 because the goat happened to be more important than the dog.  Then there was the comment from the vet who did Ivan's surgery; he asked if Ivan was wary of strangers and I'm like "uhhhh *YES*."  He said "Well, this kind of dog probably _should_ be.  The Great Pyrenees used to be that way until people started making housedogs out of them" -- and it wasn't said kindly.  The people who bred Ivan started with Pyrs, too, and when I told her I was looking at Mischa she warned me about her very bad experiences with Pyrs...which was why they got into Sarplaninacs.

Through Mischa, though, what I've come to believe is that it's not a matter of the Pyr breed having been made unsuitable for LGD work, per se, but more like they've been bred so indescriminately that they're pretty hit or miss these days.  Some are awesome; some are totally unsuitable.  With other less common LGD breeds, you could probably still take the average dog of the breed and be reasonably assured that it's gonna work out ok as a guardian..  Not so with Pyrs, I don't think...I think when you're looking at a Pyr, it's of the *utmost importance* to be able to see working parents, talk to folks who have bought pups from previous litters, etc.

To be fair, though, Mischa's daddy was a really, really good fullblood Pyr.  Not as aggressive as what I'm used to, but he was pretty big and wary and aloof.  Mischa's mama was a big dollbaby, though...came right to the fence like PET ME, PET ME! -- she's 50% Pyr/50% Sarplaninac.

(...from what I saw of Ivan's breeder's stock, plus Mischa's mom, plus talking to the owner of a blood sister to Ivan, males vs. females in Sarplaninacs seem to be pretty night and day...males very aggro, females very friendly...  )

Mischa's daddy stayed back and barked...for about 30 seconds.  I walked over to the fence to pet mama, and daddy casually wandered over to investigate.  I could tell he wanted me to pet him, too.    The owner said "She'll let you pet her, but he might bi...oh, ok well...I guess not" -- I was already scratching him under the chin.  



I explained that I'm kinda sorta used to a much bigger, much warier, much more aggressive dog and the guy just kinda looked at me like he didn't know there was such a thing.    Said the guy who helps him out on the farm has been coming there for a couple of years and *still* can't get in the pen with that dog.

Wuss.  

I'd have gone in there that day if it wasn't so muddy.  

Anyway..  Some Pyrs are fantastic; some Pyrs are horrific.  That's my opinion.  




Oh, hey...meant to ask....is Alex fixed?  If not... hehehe ...crossing a female Ivan/Mischa pup to Alex would yield 31.25% Pyr/37.5% Karakachan/31.25% Sarplaninac babies.  That's about as close to thirds as it gets...could be a VERY interesting hybrid.

Jes sayin'.


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## dianneS (Oct 27, 2010)

I've heard that about Pyrs, that they're being treated as pets and losing their instincts to be good guardians.

I have no idea where the woman who bred Alex got her 1/2 great pyr 1/2 Karakachan mamma dog?  I'm not sure if that dog was local, but Alex's Dad came from Indiana.  I know that the only great pyr's I've met locally are all pets.  This woman's great pyr/karakachan became a serious chicken killer after having her first litter of pups.  She had to be re-homed to a farm without birds.

Apparently quite a few people have had trouble with Alex's siblings, but I think they just gave up too soon.  One woman bought a pup and tried to keep it as a pet.  Apparently it didn't work out either, and the dog was offered for free on craigslist.

 LGD's are not very common in my area.  Most people have never heard of such a thing and keeping a dog outside 24/7 is considered cruel.  People ask me often if I bring Alex inside at night.  When I tell them no, he never comes in the house, they look at me like I'm the most horrible person in the world.  

Alex is not fixed, we never really found it necessary.  He calmed down without neutering.  So he is fully intact and my husband and I are glad we kept him that way since he is doing such a good job, we think he's worth breeding some day.


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## Beekissed (Oct 27, 2010)

Surprisingly enough, more and more people feel like keeping an animal outside is cruel.  Even in the very rural area in which I live.  

I get those comments all the time and I even had a lady tell me that she wouldn't let me have a kitten because I wouldn't keep it inside.  She was afraid it would get killed in the big, bad outdoors.

That same kitten was killed by her own dog several days later... 

I don't know when and where people lost the common sense to recognize fur is for living outdoors.  For thousands of years these animals have lived in all weathers outdoors like God intended....why now do people think they know better than the Almighty?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 28, 2010)

Around here there are  A LOT of dogs that are kept on a chain to a dog house 24x7. That I think is cruel. They get very little attention and you can't guard anything when you are on a chain. They are also constantly barking so you really couldn't even say they are good for letting you know someone is coming. I'm at the point that I don't hear it much anymore but you can hear constant barking in the distance at my place.

I do know lots of people who have LGD's or outside dogs that run the property and are very happy healthy dogs. You have to stop and really look at the quality of life, not if they are inside or outside.


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## jodief100 (Oct 28, 2010)

I will admit I felt a little guilty about keeping dogs outside all the time at first.  I know a working dog has to stay outside; it needs to build up a coat and tolerance to the weather.  Eventually I learned that a working dog wants to stay outside and work.  I found that most rescue groups will not adopt a dog to someone to use as a working dog.  They are constantly getting dogs that have to be rehomed due to working dog behaviors that are not acceptable to people wanting house pets, yet they refuse to do what is best for the dog, find a home where their instincts are desired.  This is based on the belief outside=cruel.  

I think we as producers who depend on these dogs need to work on educating people that our dogs live full and happy lives outside.  That there is a huge difference between someone in the city who keeps their pet outside, by itself with nothing to do and someone who keeps a working dog outside and stimulated with work and the company of other animals.  

I mentioned this because animal welfare groups are trying and succeeding in some cases of imposing restrictive rules to protect livestock.  It is imposing an undue hardship on producers due to the average persons ignorance.  While they do not always succeed with livestock, they may succeed with dogs.  Most people view them anthropomorphically and their ignorance here could be very detrimental to our way of life.  

Educate and inform!  We must be diligent to protect our way of life!   We take of our dogs, in some cases better than house dogs.  People need to know and understand this.  

And I will step down from my soapbox now, please forgive me..


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## Roll farms (Oct 28, 2010)




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## cmjust0 (Oct 28, 2010)

I'll second the 

We got Ivan in the summer..  I kinda wondered if I'd feel bad for him in the winter when it got cold (which is when most people think it's cruel to leave a dog out) but the colder it got, the more hyper he got.  

He's never happier than to be covered with frost.  Literally, his guard hairs frost over because he just lays all sprawled out in the barnyard like...aaaaaahhhhhhhhh...this is nice!  Thing is, he'll frost over and keep a frost all night.

Still, I have people kinda cringe when they hear about him collecting frost..  I have to explain that the reason he frosts over is because his body heat isn't escaping his coat to melt it.  **He's weatherproof.**  Most folks get it then, but it's not uncommon for folks to be like "Still, I don't think I could do it...I'd have to bring him in" or something like that, and so I ask:

Can you imagine what it would be like to have to wear a snowsuit in the house -- _all the time?_

That usually does it.


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 28, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> I have to explain that the reason he frosts over is because his body heat isn't escaping his coat to melt it.  **He's weatherproof.**


Exactly. People just don't get it.  


There are some cases where it's cruel to keep animals outside all the time.  Some dogs like sighthounds (with little to no body fat) and brachycephalic breeds just can't tolerate extreme temps at all.  

I get extremely irritated at rescue groups who have LGD breeds and insist the dog must be kept inside.  What is wrong with the dog doing what it was bred to do?!!


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## cmjust0 (Oct 28, 2010)

I actually have a little experience with being *forced* to keep an LGD inside all the time...Ivan's knee surgery.

We built him a "stall" in the mudroom -- which isn't even climate controlled -- and he was OK with it while he was in the early stages of recovery.  It had 4' solid plywood walls, was quiet, and I think he knew he was injured and vulnerable and this was kinda like a 'den' to him..  I think he felt safe in there, so he'd go out to do his biz and then be ready to go right back in the stall to lay down.  

When he started feeling better, though...NOPE...I'm not going back in there!  The only thing he hated worse was a collar and leash, so when he'd balk, we'd take the collar and leash and go at him and he'd choose to go back in on his own...until he decided he could run again!

_That's_ when it got to be a PITA.  

It's occasionally necessary to put him in the backyard so people can come see the goats, and he still remembers that the backyard leads to the mudroom..  Unless you've got something very, very tasty to toss in the backyard to lure him through the gate, he's *extremely wary* of going in there.  I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm gonna make him go in the house again and he will have NONE OF THAT, thankyouverymuch.  

He's just not meant to be inside...he doesn't like to be inside...he would be miserable inside.  

He's just a rough and ready, outdoorsy kinda dude.  

...having said all that, I've considered bringing a Ivan/Mischa pup in the house and *raising* it as a house dog.  *CONSIDERED* -- not decided.   

I live out in the boonies and my inside dogs aren't terribly intimidating, so part of me thinks it might be good to have a dog that could stand up on the side door and look a would-be thief *right in the eyeballs.*


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 28, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> I live out in the boonies and my inside dogs aren't terribly intimidating, so part of me thinks it might be good to have a dog that could stand up on the side door and look a would-be thief *right in the eyeballs.*


That's what our Mastiff mix does!  He's tall, but not terribly stocky.  He barrels to the door and launches up and stands looking out the window.  Quite a few guests have been pretty startled when he does that!


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## dianneS (Oct 28, 2010)

We have some animal rights activists in this area who are trying to have a senate bill passed that chaning a dog outside will be illegal.  I had to check into it to see if I would support or oppose such a law, but its actually not bad.  It doesn't pertain to farms and its only forbiding chaining from 10 pm to 6 am.  I don't agree with chaining dogs 24/7, but sometimes I find it necessary with Alex to chain him for a few hours while new goats become acclimated.

Anyway, I contacted a member of this animal rights group and used this bill as segue into a conversation about working dogs.  I hope I educated her on the use of LGD's especially for preditor control.  I would think an animal rights activist would understand that using a dog for protection is much more humane than trapping, shooting or poisoning wildlife?  I think she understood.

I have signs on my property that I got from the Anatolian Shepherd assocation website that read "Working Livestock Guardian Dog - Do not disturb".  I hope that helps some people to understand why Alex is out there.  (These signs do not say "beware of dog" so they don't make your dog a liability either)

Alex is also happiest in the winter.  We had four feet of snow on the ground last winter and he laid out in it while it was coming down.  He'd disappear into the snow!  However, I was always worried that if he barked for any period of time that anyone within earshot was going to report me for having a dog outside in that cold weather.  He had the option to go in the barn with the goats, he preferred the snow!


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## Beekissed (Oct 28, 2010)

> I would think an animal rights activist would understand that using a dog for protection is much more humane than trapping, shooting or poisoning wildlife?  I think she understood.


You would think so, wouldn't you?  The response I normally get to this explanation is "How could you expose your dogs to possibly being injured in a fight with a wild animal?  They could get killed or wounded!!! I would NEVER put MY baby in harm's way like that!!!"  

I've even heard these very same lines on BYC.  There are millions of people out there who have lost their minds over pets and its getting worse.  Pretty soon we will have to debate livestock guardian dogs vs. pet dogs like we do pet chickens vs. livestock chickens.  

I think giving them ANY legislation that puts a law into place that dictates how we exercise our personal freedoms regarding our animals opens the door to further of the same....give them an inch and they will take a mile.  

I don't approve of tied out dogs either...but at times it has been necessary to do so in temporary situations.  I find it unnecessarily cruel to tie out permanently if you have the room to have alternate methods of containment.  If you cannot come up with a more humane method, it would be best to rehome the dog.  

I see very few people interacting with permanently tied out dogs, other than feeding.  If you aren't using them for a purpose or for companionship, what is the use of even having them?  Lawn ornamentation?  

But laws against it?  I don't agree with that.


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## dianneS (Oct 29, 2010)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> But laws against it?  I don't agree with that.


I don't agree with that either.  More legislation = more tax dollars spent to pass and enforce said law.  I don't want to pay higher taxes just for a dog chaining law.

We've already got laws prohibiting cruel treatment of animals.  If an animals is being subjected to cruelty or neglect and abuse, then take action.  Dogs tied out 24/7 is not nice, but a separate law?  No thanks.

I have several animal rights groups in my area and they are all competeing to see who can do the most for the animals.  Its almost as if they don't really care about the animals anymore and its more about their egos.  To have legislation passed regarding a dog law would be a really big feather in someone's cap in the animals rights circles.  Its really pathetic.


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## dianneS (Oct 29, 2010)

Uh oh, I just got an email from the breeder of my dog.  Her pup from the same litter was caught with a chicken this morning.  The chicken was alive, but bloody and terrified.

She's freaking out thinking he's going to be a chicken killer like his mamma.  She still thinks these dogs are magic and need no training or discipline.

I tried to advise her as best as I could and gave her the same advice I got on here.  Its probably this cold weather that has him acting up!  I told her to get him toys to keep him occupied too.

I hope she doesn't give up on this dog, especially when he'll be two years old in the spring.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 29, 2010)

dianneS said:
			
		

> Uh oh, I just got an email from the breeder of my dog.  Her pup from the same litter was caught with a chicken this morning.  The chicken was alive, but bloody and terrified.
> 
> She's freaking out thinking he's going to be a chicken killer like his mamma.  She still thinks these dogs are magic and need no training or discipline.
> 
> ...


Offer to take him.  

That way, you have *two* great dogs and each of them have a canine companion upon which to expend excess energy.

...it's a thought...


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## dianneS (Oct 29, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Offer to take him.
> 
> That way, you have *two* great dogs and each of them have a canine companion upon which to expend excess energy.
> 
> ...it's a thought...


The thought has crossed my mind.  I might suggest it if things get to the point where she is ready to give up on him.  I'm encouraging her to stick it out with him.

What are your thoughts of having a LGD breed as a home guardian?  I'd like to have a dog to protect the house some day.  Maybe not live _in _the house, but in the yard surrounding the house.  Could they be taught to protect the house and humans in it?  Could a LGD be a house dog?


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## cmjust0 (Oct 29, 2010)

Almost any dog that's not socialized to people as a puppy is going to be wary of strangers.  If that dog happens to be in the 100-150lb range and is *bred* to be wary and watchful and confront instead of retreat, then yeah...I think it could absolutely be a good home guardian.  

On the other hand, it might maul the meter man's head off.  :/

Like I said, I've considered keeping an Ivan/Mischa baby for a house dog..  I'd want it socialized to people, though, because I'm just not sure I'd feel comfortable keeping a *really* aggressive dog in a place where people are supposed to be...a house.  

But then if you socialize the dog, does it become a big lap puppy who greets thieves at the door like "OH BOY!  Do you have treats for me?!?"


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 29, 2010)

Dianne, is the lady anywhere near MD?


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## jodief100 (Oct 29, 2010)

My male LGD killed a few roosters.  I scolded him, told him no, wacked his nose, went through the whole routine..  I thought we had the problem fixed.  

I came home 2 weeks ago and he had a chicken.  There were white feathers everywhere and he was happily rolling the bird on the ground ripping out more.  

I yelled at him, took the bird away and tossed it over the fence, then proceeded to severely discipline him.  

Then I went to collect the dead bird. It wasnt there.  It was with the other chickens, pecking and scratching like nothing happened.   I would have SWORN that bird was dead!  She was missing a few feathers but no mark on her. She laid an egg that night and never showed any sign of injury or illness.

Apparently I have broken him of chicken killing. Now I need to break him of chicken playing? :/

Point being, they can be broken of the chicken killing habit, I think.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 29, 2010)

That's another cool thing about LGDs...they can be stubborn, yes, but they're also very sensitive and pretty easy to discipline.  They *may* not show their acknowledgement of discipline by cowering or appearing submissive (Mischa does; Ivan doesn't), but they really, really take it to heart.

Ivan...poor boy...he takes it SO HARD when I get upset with him.  There was one morning when I went to the barnyard frustrated with something completely unrelated to farm/dogs/goats/etc., and Ivan got in my way or something like that..  I yelled at him -- like, abruptly and very harshly.  And he hadn't really even done anything..



When I got home that evening, I went down to the gate and into the barnyard..  I'd forgotten all about it, but boy he sure hadn't..  I went over to him and he dropped his head and started the other way like "Ok, boss...I'm moving.  I know you hate me."  An LGDs eyes are very expressive, and he just seemed heartbroken.

I got hold of him and sat out there forever, apologizing all over myself and petting on him, and he seemed soooooo relieved that we were buds again.  Poor fella....he'd prolly sat out there all day with his stomach in knots over it.  

I've made sure not to do that again...he's been far too good a dog for me to be snapping at him for no reason.

(...it's funny, but even thinking back on it makes me feel sad and guilty...if I were home, I'd go hug him and tell him he's a good, good boy right now..   )


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 29, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> if I were home, I'd go hug him and tell him he's a good, good boy right now..   )


I think you should call him on the phone right now.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 29, 2010)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> cmjust0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, don't be silly.  


I'll just facebook him.


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 29, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> aggieterpkatie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## dianneS (Nov 2, 2010)

I should have sent Alex a tweet last night and told him to SHUT UP!!  

 He was barking at 4 AM and just _would not stop_.  I finally sent my husband out with the flashlight (he _never _goes out to the barn in the middle of the night, its usually _me_.) to see if anything was really wrong.  No.  There was nothing of any major concern to account for all the barking.  As soon as my husband came back inside, Alex started up again. 

_I _went out this time (since _I'm _the boss and the animals know that I mean business!)  Nothing out there, not even a deer.  I told Alex to quiet down and left a nightlight on for him.  He still barked a bit, but eventually settled down.  He started barking again at sun-up.  He's still barking periodically.  I think its the cold weather.  He's just wound up.  It was really cold last night and we had a really hard frost, it looked like snow.  I slept in this morning (I _never _sleep late) after being disturbed so much during the night.  I hope he's quieter tonight!


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