# Adding Livestock Guardian Dogs to an Existing Pack



## BrendaMNgri (Oct 27, 2017)

Sheep! Magazine has my latest article out on adding LGDs to your existing group of dogs. 

Many LGD owners stress out and/or fear over adding more dogs (whether pups or adults) to an existing unit of dogs. It really is not anything to fear, or panic over.  Be sure and check out the reading list. Those books can be the keys to the kingdom for any LGD owner in that they will help your communication skills with your dog, and your dog will understand your signals better, too.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 27, 2017)

_"12. Adult dog additions to an established pack are where the owner’s calmness, trust, and previous groundwork will pay off.—I reinforce trust in my dogs by letting the new dog intermingle with the pack immediately. No separation for hours, days or weeks, no tethering up and no kenneling apart from the pack. This requires trust on the part of the shepherd."_

This may work for experienced owners but not the novice. Most people couldn't break up a fight if one occurred. 
A new dog in a new environment is already stressed and on edge this is quite possibly a disaster- often is.

It is one thing if it is your dog you have raised and are bringing in but a whole other story when bringing in a completely strange dog that you do not know well, nor the dog knows you. Allowing an adult dog to mentally and physically adjust without going into strong defense mode is *very necessary. *

Allowing a new addition alongside and being present giving those signals to both new dog and existing stock does allow for a much better introduction. 

Recently I move a bitch into a field with a male that has lived his life in that field and has had only his goats for 3 1/2 years. No fights, no issues but I know my dogs. For two days he did not allow the bitch around his goats and the goats were somewhat apprehensive as well. The dogs do pick up on the stress level of their livestock. The male knows his job, I trust him. I trust the bitch too... but I do allow the dogs to set their own rules within the teams. The male eventually allowed her access to the shelters- but that trust on the part of the male certainly was not just "automatic". He has been along side this bitch all these years- their fields are next to each other. So- not complete strangers yet there were still natural, instinctive reactions from the lead in the field. 

So take the dog that just came in from a long transport- you know nothing about, as is usually the case. 
I'm no fool- no way am I taking a dog in I know nothing about putting not only that dog, but my dogs, my livestock, and myself at risk.

Usually we are on the same page but on this one I have to strongly disagree. 
Breeds and sex also plays role.


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## BrendaMNgri (Oct 27, 2017)

….and I must strongly disagree with you as well.

I run intact males and females of many breeds here and have for many years. I've brought in new dogs into a pack that at one time, numbered 25 dogs. And I don't have the drama or the hot mess when a new pup or dog arrives. It boils down to my trust in my dogs and my confidence, and the effort I put into reading their body language and interpreting it and acting on what I see going on. That confidence and understanding can be built by anyone if they choose to work on it. 

Fence/barrier aggression happens when you put something between two dogs that normally get along. But when you put a barrier between them they get false confidence and start thinking they are untouchable, and will often fence fight. By putting a barrier between two dogs it escalates the chance of this occurring. That is why I'm so against penning up a new dog for days or weeks away from the established pack. It creates a false environment.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 27, 2017)

This IMO is dangerous advice for those newer/inexperienced to the LGD world.  If they cannot read body language to begin with how will they do this? 

Failing to recognize the new addition and the unknown and added inexperience is often a disaster.
I really don't know anything about your livestock herd. 
Farms that are primarily livestock and not dogs have a different perspective.
When dogs (teams and packs) are introduced they are still going to be somewhat on the edge for their livestock. 

Although barriers and fences CAN cause these issues this is where the person/handler comes in- reassuring.

The method you describe more often then not results in the following...
~ a new unfamiliar dog panicking and doing one of two things- fight or flight
~Flight-this is why there are so many dogs "found" and all over FB  because the new dog takes flight it is scared- remember this isn't YOUR dog it is a strange dog. It takes off, escapes and is gone. Dogs that have never gone over a fence can and will if the situation presents itself.
~ Fight- nervous scared ad tense the reaction is very often self protection - it is far too stressful and this leads to potential fighting. Most people do not have the spiked collars so for most this is an issue... two weeks ago a lady I know did exactly what you suggest. Fight did break out and she did get bit - badly. Law requires an in house quarantine despite proof of rabies. She had two ER visits and is on antibiotics- one finger has nerve damage. Everything was fine and then it wasn't. She saw it was about to turn bad and proceeding to correct the situation but the dogs are fast as they should be.


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## Goat Whisperer (Oct 27, 2017)

I think another thing to consider is how the dogs are already being raised and what they are accustomed to. 

If you have 25 dogs on a five acre lot they are already living a bit different than what most other farms have available. From what you've said, and from what you have posted, you've been able to bring a lot of dogs and and send some out. Your dogs are 
accustomed to that.

 I know mine aren't. They are around the same dogs, every day, for day after day and year after year. They are also guarding against other dogs (strays). 

We do not have the volume or concentration as you do. A pack of 25 on five acres is different than a team of 2-3 on a less concentrated area. (The 2-3 is per field- we've had 7ish in one field but really didn't need that much power, we have a lot of fields and a lot of coyotes). 

I also do not keep spiked collars on my dogs. 

I could be completely confident and I can read my dogs. But just throwing in an adult dog would not be wise. It would be undue stress to the stock, the LGDs, and to the new dog as well. 

These are not schutzhund dogs, they will not just halt, drop, or stop immediately the way the GSD does. 

Today, many are not physically able to break up a fight. It takes strength and skill- and it is better to have more than one person, but that isn't always the case. 

I think this method can work for some, but for others it could a disaster. There is no "one size fits all" and I think this could potentially cause a lot of issues. 

I am always for knowing your dog and being able to read them. This is why it is important to know your dogs, and to trust your dog. If they say it's okay, then it is. But my dogs also trust me. The trust goes both ways. If my dog is not okay with another dog being dumped in his field with no real introduction, why would I push it?


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