# Ewe won't let newborn lamb nurse



## Rin (Mar 14, 2021)

First time mother, had herself a ram lamb no problem sometime this morning but refuses to hold still for him to nurse. I don't think it is a bonding issue as she does "talk" to him and would not leave him for pellets this morning (I tossed a pile closer to her so she would eat). I don't want to interfere in a way that might make the situation worse but it is obvious she just isn't letting him nurse. Just gently spins away from his attempts. I uploaded a video showing the behaviour: 




Should I do anything or just give her privacy and hope it's just stress from my presence? Does this look like stress, inexperience, or just the dreaded rejection (right after this video she did start to groom him)


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## Longhornbreeder101 (Mar 14, 2021)

Rin said:


> First time mother, had herself a ram lamb no problem sometime this morning but refuses to hold still for him to nurse. I don't think it is a bonding issue as she does "talk" to him and would not leave him for pellets this morning (I tossed a pile closer to her so she would eat). I don't want to interfere in a way that might make the situation worse but it is obvious she just isn't letting him nurse. Just gently spins away from his attempts. I uploaded a video showing the behaviour:
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You might have to take the baby in and start bottle feeding that lamb before it passes away cause of starvation the mom is just nervous cause she’s a first time mom and is not used to something trying to suckle on her teats something to do is put momma in a cage but still bottle feed baby but slowly get momma used to something pulling on her teats and start trying to get baby to nurse but with your help of a bottle I hope I could help


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## Longhornbreeder101 (Mar 14, 2021)

Here’s something I found that could help you to make sure your lamb survives








						Do You Know How to Bottle Feed A Lamb Easily
					

You may need to bottle feed a lamb sometimes if you have orphaned lambs, if it's mother dies in birth or if it's mother rejects the baby for any reason. For ensuring the lamb survives,




					www.roysfarm.com


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## Rin (Mar 14, 2021)

Bottle feeding is out of the question, I work 10 hr shifts. I will try to see if confining them together will work though I'm pretty sure that will just increase the likelihood of her stomping on him by accident. She's not avoiding him, just avoiding any feeding attempts by swiveling her butt away. I was thinking restraining her in some way if I had to intervene, but I guess not?


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## Alaskan (Mar 14, 2021)

Rin said:


> Bottle feeding is out of the question, I work 10 hr shifts. I will try to see if confining them together will work though I'm pretty sure that will just increase the likelihood of her stomping on him by accident. She's not avoiding him, just avoiding any feeding attempts by swiveling her butt away. I was thinking restraining her in some way if I had to intervene, but I guess not?


Yes, restrain the ewe, help the lamb feed. 

Some times,  after forcing the first few feedings the ewe will then figure out how to mother


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## Baymule (Mar 14, 2021)

Before you start bottle feeding, put ewe and lamb in a small pen. Tie the ewe up with a loop around her neck and run the rope over her nose and through the neck loop. Tie it so the loop doesn’t slide and choke her. Tie her head close to a post. You will have to be sitting on the ground for this, so if wet, scatter hay, straw or a piece of cardboard. Or you can just happily get sloppy wet. LOL

Check the lamb to see if he is cold. Put your finger in his mouth. If it’s warm, them proceed to getting him to nurse. If his mouth is cold, don’t feed him. A cold lamb cannot digest milk and will die. I unfortunately know this from personal experience. My favorite way to warm a lamb is with a heavy towel for a tent and a hair dryer. You can even use a box. Tent method, keep lambs head out, so you don’t cook his lungs. Turn hair dryer on high and blow on lamb. Box method, cut hole in each end, one for hair dryer to poke through and one for lambs head to hang out. Warm the lamb up toasty warm, bundle him up and go back to mom.

Now you have a warm lamb that is ready to feed. Push the ewe against a wall and put lamb up to the teat. You may have to gently pry his mouth open and milk the teat to give him a taste. Keep working with both of them until he latches on and sucks.

If you take the lamb directly away from his mom to bottle feed, he may miss out on the colostrum. Without the colostrum, he will die. I also know this from personal experience. Let my mistakes better help you.

After the lamb has fed a few times and you are satisfied, untie the ewe and leave them penned together. Go back a couple of hours later and put your finger in his mouth. If warm, he’s ok. If his mouth is cold, repeat the tie up and helping him suck process.

If you are convinced that she is rejecting him, take him in and bottle feed him. If she is rejecting him, she will butt him HARD and knock him away.

milk formula I use. 
1 gallon whole cow milk
1 can evaporated milk
1 cup cultured buttermilk 

Pour out 2 1/2 cups milk. Pour in can of evaporated milk and 1 cup cultured buttermilk. Slake to mix. Feed 4-6 ounces 4 times a day to start with.

From the sounds of it, she is just new and will figure it out. Let us know how she and the lamb does.


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## Baymule (Mar 14, 2021)

I just went through this with two sets of triplets and wound up with a bottle baby from each ewe. LOL I also had two new mothers that I had to tie and help the lamb to suck, so they both could get the hang of it. Penning them up gives them both time to bond and figure it out.


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## Baymule (Mar 14, 2021)

I had a lamb born during a freakish ice and snow storm with severe cold, for this part of the country. Poor lamb was always shivering, I cut an arm off a sweater to make her a coat. She still looked pitiful. Every time I picked her up, her mouth was warm, so I knew she was eating. I tucked my sweat hoodie into my pants, unzipped it, stuffed her inside and warmed her up while I did chores.


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## farmerjan (Mar 14, 2021)

@Baymule  is right.  You need to restrain the ewe so the lamb gets a chance to get latched on and gets a tummy full.  If she is still doing this, a few hours later,  do it again and get the lamb on the other teat.  There might be a "plug" of sorts in the teat that might take a couple of squirts from your milking her to get it to loosened  up... it is natures way of keeping any bacteria and such from getting up in the teat and causing mastitis, until after they are fresh.  I think that since it is her first time, she just doesn't "get it" that the lamb has to go to that end to nurse.  We see it in first calf heifers sometimes and if they don't let the calf nurse within a few hours, we will get them caught up and make them let the calf nurse.  If you get her  in a small stall and can get her up against one side, if she is eating you may not have to tie her.  The thing is to stop her from swinging her butt away..... but usually tying her head will give you a chance to get the lamb on and then once they figure out where to find the milk (for sure... as he is trying now by an inborn instinct)  and gets a tummy full, he will be much more aggressive to go after the next meal.  You don't want him too get weak so a feeding asap is best.  At least she did this on a Sunday which I assume is your day off?????  Most are not this cooperative!!!


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## Longhornbreeder101 (Mar 14, 2021)

I


Rin said:


> Bottle feeding is out of the question, I work 10 hr shifts. I will try to see if confining them together will work though I'm pretty sure that will just increase the likelihood of her stomping on him by accident. She's not avoiding him, just avoiding any feeding attempts by swiveling her butt away. I was thinking restraining her in some way if I had to intervene, but I guess not?


If momma still doesn’t accept after everything might wanna see if someone can help you feed her or idk how much longer she’s gonna be here everyone’s replies are all great ! I hope she does ok keep us updated but if momma doesn’t accept and you don’t have time to take care of her all I can say is ask someone to help you with her that has some time to help you bottle feed her hope she does ok.


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## Mini Horses (Mar 14, 2021)

Normally, once the babe nurses a couple times, the moms will do ok.  Their teats may be tender and plugged at first.  Warm wet mouth or warm wet washcloth helps with this.   The relief the dam feels with letdown usually takes care of the drama a FF sometimes has.   You need to get him nursing fairly soon, for their and your settling.  They will absorb colostrum best within 12 hrs but will continue good absorbtion another 12 normally.   Sooner the better.  The things we've suggested normally work well!!!   It's always best for most to mother raise ... Unless you're a dairy.  😁    Keep us updated, we are here for you!


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## Rin (Mar 14, 2021)

I checked his mouth right away as suggested and he's good and warm and has a strong sucking reflex. I did examine her teats. Not hot or painful. Just very very full. Her bag is bigger than any nubian I ever had (she's a FL Cracker, sold my nubians after I got this job because of the hours). The minute I got a rope on her she held still for him to get a good fill up and eventually yanked the rope away out of my hand to pee a whole days worth of pee. It was flood gates. She was pawing like crazy too. After that I checked her genitals and nothing looks prolapsed or anything. She seems physically fine, just very anxious. I couldn't find anything to make a small pen out of so I just ran a long lead of baling twine off her halter so I can just step on it to catch her and let him feed as needed. Not sure how frequently I should catch her in this way for him. Every 2 hrs? Same at night?


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## Mini Horses (Mar 14, 2021)

Newborns drink only a couple ozs, then jump a little, lay down to nap...repeat, repeat.
Generally a few nursings and mom gets ok with it.  So do again in hr or two, check her response as to his approach and nursing.  She should start to relax and nuzzle his butt.  You can gently rub/scratch his back just at his tail, encourages him to suckle.   Do again, if she isn't ready to accept.  The first day is critical to bond.

How does she tend to him, interact when not nursing?    Wish you had a shed you could use for overnight, to watch them and get mom comfy with being a mom.  Usually they are "connected" by then.


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## Beekissed (Mar 14, 2021)

Rin said:


> Bottle feeding is out of the question, I work 10 hr shifts. I will try to see if confining them together will work though I'm pretty sure that will just increase the likelihood of her stomping on him by accident. She's not avoiding him, just avoiding any feeding attempts by swiveling her butt away. I was thinking restraining her in some way if I had to intervene, but I guess not?


Yep...you can devise a head gate just using Tposts and such.  Put her in a headgate wherein she can lie down, drink and eat but cannot swivel away from that baby.  If she stomps at him, hobble those legs.  Best to make her feed him....won't take long before you can let her out of the headgate and she'll do it herself.


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## Baymule (Mar 14, 2021)

I think you are doing a great job. You are working with what you have and have devised a way to let him suck. His mouth was warm, excellent! You may check him a couple of times and let him feed, let him feed in the morning before you go to work. I think they will be ok after that.
Cow panels are your friend. Two cut in half make a small pen. Hog ring chicken wire around the bottom to keep the babies in. Use one half as a gate, pound T-posts in the corners and you have a perfect jug. I don’t know why the small pen is called jug, but that’s what it is.
This is how we learn. You will be better prepared next time and will know what to expect.
Keep us posted on how he is doing!


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## Rin (Mar 14, 2021)

Yeah nothing. Sold all my stuff when I sold the nubians because FL Crackers are pasture lambers.

Behavior wise: She sniffs and nuzzles him frequently and lays with him. Will not leave him. She nearly lost it when I caught him to check his mouth because he started crying loudly.

She seems to hold still for him now as soon as I catch her. Until she turns her head to sniff his butt, and for some reason he has a smell that makes her swing around trying to get face to face with him. Doesn't act aggressively. Just sniffs his face and talks at him as if confirming it's for sure him.


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## farmerjan (Mar 14, 2021)

Give her a day or two, make sure he eats, and she will get it.... She is still trying to figure all this first time stuff out.  As long  as she is not butting him away but just keeps turning to check him out you are halfway there... 
Try feeding her as soon as you step on her "long lead" so she associates feed with the feeling of the lamb nursing.  He will get smart quick and realize that if she is eating he will be able to get a good nursing in too.... But I think she will get it soon.


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## Rin (Mar 14, 2021)

Beekissed said:


> Yep...you can devise a head gate just using Tposts and such.  Put her in a headgate wherein she can lie down, drink and eat but cannot swivel away from that baby.  If she stomps at him, hobble those legs.  Best to make her feed him....won't take long before you can let her out of the headgate and she'll do it herself.


Ohh I like this idea. Stick them parallel with each other and tie off the top with food and water directly in front of her that she can reach? I'll try this tomorrow before work.


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## Rin (Mar 14, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Give her a day or two, make sure he eats, and she will get it.... She is still trying to figure all this first time stuff out.  As long  as she is not butting him away but just keeps turning to check him out you are halfway there...
> Try feeding her as soon as you step on her "long lead" so she associates feed with the feeling of the lamb nursing.  He will get smart quick and realize that if she is eating he will be able to get a good nursing in too.... But I think she will get it soon.


I've actually been giving her sheep cookies (ground whole grains moistened with a lil mollases and rolled into a ball or just squeezy buns if I'm lazy) so her reward is extra special for letting him nurse. Should I be trying to get her to eat pellets too while I have her?


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## farmerjan (Mar 14, 2021)

No, I would just do one or the other.... anything to get her to stand and as she gets used to the feeling of being nursed, and the relief in the udder pressure.... plus he is going to get stronger and more determined quickly and she will just "give in" anyway.  I think you are doing fine.


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## Rin (Mar 14, 2021)

Haha he's definitely determined and a big boy too. He's almost as big as one of my ewe lambs.... Who was born about 3 weeks ago.


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## Beekissed (Mar 15, 2021)

Rin said:


> Yeah nothing. Sold all my stuff when I sold the nubians because FL Crackers are pasture lambers.
> 
> Behavior wise: She sniffs and nuzzles him frequently and lays with him. Will not leave him. She nearly lost it when I caught him to check his mouth because he started crying loudly.
> 
> She seems to hold still for him now as soon as I catch her. Until she turns her head to sniff his butt, and for some reason he has a smell that makes her swing around trying to get face to face with him. Doesn't act aggressively. Just sniffs his face and talks at him as if confirming it's for sure him.


Hmmmmmm.....you may want to put some Vicks in her nose for a bit to see if it keeps that smell from being the problem.  Seems like she likes how he looks and sounds but not how he smells, so take the smell factor away and see if she's fine with him.


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## Sheepshape (Mar 15, 2021)

First timers can be very 'fickle'....they think that it's 'job done' after the lamb is born, particularly if they are not yet fully grown themselves.
Most will get the hang of things after restraint for a day or two, and when the new mum can smell her milk coming through the lamb
Persistence usually does pay off and bottle feeding should be avoided at all costs if you can get her to accept the lamb


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## Rin (Mar 15, 2021)

Thank you all. I'm heading to bed now after she let him have another drink (Vicks wasn't needed, she didn't seem as put off by his smell this time but did resume spinning away from him as soon as I went to walk away).

Should know more tomorrow.


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## Baymule (Mar 15, 2021)

Your last post shows 2AM my time, don’t know what time it was your time, kudos to you for your dedication to your animals. So you switched to FL sheep because they are lower maintenance? I get that! We raise Katahdin hair sheep for that very reason. Mine usually surprise me in the mornings with newborns already up, nursing, warm and happy. Every now and then there is a FF who is a little confused so into the jug they go. I’m sure with your care and help, this ewe will make a fine mom from this going forward.


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## NEWCOMER (Mar 15, 2021)

Has she pushed out the placenta? If she did rub it on the lamb's butt and she might let him nurse. My ewe did that too. Now we have two lambs. But, I'm not a sheep whisperer. @Baymule probably has better advice.


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## Rin (Mar 15, 2021)

Baymule said:


> Your last post shows 2AM my time, don’t know what time it was your time, kudos to you for your dedication to your animals. So you switched to FL sheep because they are lower maintenance? I get that! We raise Katahdin hair sheep for that very reason. Mine usually surprise me in the mornings with newborns already up, nursing, warm and happy. Every now and then there is a FF who is a little confused so into the jug they go. I’m sure with your care and help, this ewe will make a fine mom from this going forward.


EST, it was about 3am before I fell asleep (I'm a second shifter). He's still alive. Held her a few hrs ago but tempted to go with a makeshift headgate since she seems to be getting more and more agitated whenever I go out there.

FL crackers are supposed to be even more low maintenance than the hairs!  I live in FL and their ancestors were brought over with Spain and left to the Florida wilds for over 500 years. Only called in twice a year for shearing and lamb marking (they have two lamb crops a year, most of my ewes are probably pregnant again or will be by the end of this month). They thrive on pine needles and dirt and require little to no worming. Only downside (if you ask meat breeders) is they are a smaller breed and do produce wool. I consider both of those to be bonuses, personally.


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## Baymule (Mar 15, 2021)

NEWCOMER said:


> Has she pushed out the placenta? If she did rub it on the lamb's butt and she might let him nurse. My ewe did that too. Now we have two lambs. But, I'm not a sheep whisperer. @Baymule probably has better advice.


Don’t count yourself out, that is a good bit of advice!  I’ve only had sheep for 6 years and have made lots of mistakes. Super wonderful people here on BYH have taught me what I needed to know and I’m still learning. 

@Rin I think FL crackers are cousins to the Gulf Coast sheep or maybe the same, with different names. Same back story, tough, parasite resistant and survivor sheep.


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## Rin (Mar 15, 2021)

They're definitely distant cousins. UF did genetic testing a while back and found they were distinctly two different breeds from different ancestors (they look slightly different too). They just got created in a similar way, to a similarly harsh environment. It's really amazing how the land shapes the animals over time like that!

If you can't tell already, I'm a pretty huge fan, lol. My crackers are my favorite. If I could only keep one livestock, I'd choose them every time.

Honestly can't tell ya Re: placenta. By the time I was up, she already had him spotless and dry. It not passing yet might be part of why she seems so restless, but I wasn't there so I have no idea.

I had to give up on the head restraint, it was freaking her out more than anything and the idea of leaving her like that for 10 hrs and into the night felt cruel.


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## Alaskan (Mar 15, 2021)

If she isn't hurting him, can you just keep them in a small pen?

So, baymules advice



Baymule said:


> Every now and then there is a FF who is a little confused so into the jug they go.


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## Baymule (Mar 15, 2021)

My dogs will drag off or eat the afterbirth. If I find it, I bury it. 

So how is she doing now with the lamb?


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## Rin (Mar 16, 2021)

Still not great. She will hold still for a very short period on her own but then starts spinning again as soon as she seems to realize what he's doing.

Only now when she spins to be face to face with him, she will headbutt him if he moves like he's going to come at her teat again (basically she seems exhausted by his efforts and is acting slightly more desperate about them). Still refuses to leave his side if he's crying but he's crying a lot because she won't let him eat a decent amount of time if I don't holdher still?? Checked her teats again and milk flow seems fine. No apparent pain, just seems extremely annoyed about being touched there. He's peeing normal amounts when I see him pee. He only had the initial lil black tarry poop which stained a bit of his wool (and she hasn't tried to clean off him yet), no nice yellow poops yet, but also no diarrhea yet either.

Wondering if I'm not holding her long enough or if I'm holding her too long.


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## Beekissed (Mar 16, 2021)

Rin said:


> Still not great. She will hold still for a very short period on her own but then starts spinning again as soon as she seems to realize what he's doing.
> 
> Only now when she spins to be face to face with him, she will headbutt him if he moves like he's going to come at her teat again (basically she seems exhausted by his efforts and is acting slightly more desperate about them). Still refuses to leave his side if he's crying but he's crying a lot because she won't let him eat a decent amount of time if I don't holdher still?? Checked her teats again and milk flow seems fine. No apparent pain, just seems extremely annoyed about being touched there. He's peeing normal amounts when I see him pee. He only had the initial lil black tarry poop which stained a bit of his wool (and she hasn't tried to clean off him yet), no nice yellow poops yet, but also no diarrhea yet either.
> 
> Wondering if I'm not holding her long enough or if I'm holding her too long.


I'd put her in a headgate and leave her there.  She can't spin, she can't see him, she can't do anything but eat, drink, poop, pee, stand up and lie down.  You can devise a quicky headgate with T posts.  Don't give up and maybe check his teeth, see if any are a bit sharp and file them a bit with a nail file.


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## Rin (Mar 16, 2021)

Beekissed said:


> I'd put her in a headgate and leave her there.  She can't spin, she can't see him, she can't do anything but eat, drink, poop, pee, stand up and lie down.  You can devise a quicky headgate with T posts.  Don't give up and maybe check his teeth, see if any are a bit sharp and file them a bit with a nail file.


Tried the headgate thing but she panicked and kept wrenching free. I'm maybe not imagining exactly what you're describing. Is there any chance you have photos or can doodle it? Google search turned up nothing helpful there.


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## Beekissed (Mar 16, 2021)

Rin said:


> Tried the headgate thing but she panicked and kept wrenching free. I'm maybe not imagining exactly what you're describing. Is there any chance you have photos or can doodle it? Google search turned up nothing helpful there.


Found a little vid of an example of one made from T posts but it doesn't say how to build it....could be you could look at it and figure it out?  






Here's a commercially designed adoption head gate....


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## Rin (Mar 16, 2021)

Beekissed said:


> Found a little vid of an example of one made from T posts but it doesn't say how to build it....could be you could look at it and figure it out?
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VERY helpful. I was imagining something slightly different and was failing as a result. Not sure what I can use for the solid walls of it. With just the T posts it is super easy for her to pull free though.


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## Beekissed (Mar 16, 2021)

Rin said:


> VERY helpful. I was imagining something slightly different and was failing as a result. Not sure what I can use for the solid walls of it. With just the T posts it is super easy for her to pull free though.


They have skinny necks, wide jaws, so if you can squeeze the space down to allow her neck to move up and down freely, but not wide enough that she can pull her jaw through by backing up, it should do the trick.  Once you get the neck spacing down right and lock her into it, you can put some kind of solid wall on either side so she can't see anything happening back there...it could even be cardboard, as long as it obstructs her view.


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## Beekissed (Mar 16, 2021)

Got a pallet lying around handy?  Pallets are great for making a quick head stall for small livestock.


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## Rin (Mar 17, 2021)

No pallets, they're huge business here so get snapped up. I did however try to use a wall to keep her from swinging. The problem is tposts by themselves kind of have a lilbit of give and all she had to do was twist around to pry them apart or pull straight backwards to wedge them apart and slip free. With the wall she couldn't pry it sideways and I left her head in a halter tied up to the other side of the tposts with just enough slack to lay down and stand up but not enough to back her head out from between the posts.

Came home from work tonight to find the ram feeding away. The ewe was more bothered by the situation than by his efforts and didn't seem to react at all to him. Not sure if I leave her like this three days from when I started (Letting her out on Friday) or if the 3 day estimate is just from birth so tomorrow-ish.


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## Baymule (Mar 17, 2021)

That is good news. She is feeding him, maybe not in the most motherly way, but he is getting to nurse. The test will come when you let her loose. Maybe you could keep her tied for a day or two to transition her to caring for her lamb. If she acts like this on her second lambing, you might want to consider selling her. 

I had a ewe that didn't reject her lambs, she was just disinterested. The lambs were stupid too and followed the dogs, even a chicken! She was such a lousy mother and had such bad conformation that I wouldn't even take her to auction. She and her lambs went to slaughter.


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## Beekissed (Mar 17, 2021)

I too second keeping her tied up.  Doesn't hurt her a bit and as long as she has access to food and water and can lie down when she needs to, she'll be fine.


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## Rin (Mar 17, 2021)

She managed to flatten the Tposts last night after I went to bed somehow (looks like she eventually uprooted one by pushing forward and got the other loose the same way). Imgoing to try to use another tpost or 2x4 across the top to keep the posts together. At least she was still tied up by the halter so couldn't fully escape.

But yeah culling her if she does this again was the plan. FL crackers are meant to not need this kind of intervention. One needing it regularly is a major fault. If a rabbit did this crap, I'd eat them and every baby they ever had would be gone.  Thankfully I won't have to worry about how the lamb turns out in this case, I can't keep any rams anyway so he's most likely going to be meat later on even if it works out. Really really don't want to get too attached.


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## Jeannie J (Mar 17, 2021)

Ditto what everyone else is saying about penning them together.  I have a ewe who is turning out to be a terrible mother, but I penned them together for 4 days in a small confinement so that baby could nurse.  I had to help the baby find where to nurse a few times, but once he got the hang of it he was good to go.  She still isn't the best mom (she keeps losing him on our large property) but she does hold still for him to nurse.  We just have to make sure from time to time that he's able to keep up with her and not lost, poor thing. He is growing and doing well, but prefers to follow the other more attentive moms.


Rin said:


> First time mother, had herself a ram lamb no problem sometime this morning but refuses to hold still for him to nurse. I don't think it is a bonding issue as she does "talk" to him and would not leave him for pellets this morning (I tossed a pile closer to her so she would eat). I don't want to interfere in a way that might make the situation worse but it is obvious she just isn't letting him nurse. Just gently spins away from his attempts. I uploaded a video showing the behaviour:
> 
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> 
> ...


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## Ridgetop (Mar 17, 2021)

First timers always get another go - rabbits and sheep.  You are right, if this is going to be a problem -  cull.


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## Rin (Mar 17, 2021)

I'm about to give up and let her go. She wrenched her head free again, almost snapped a tpost in half this time and knocked the top one loose. I was home to hear it. Almost sounded like a ups truck crashed into my carport. Because of how she did it, she managed to knock her halter down around her neck and wrapped it around the tpost and was choking herself (not enough to give serious harm but enough she was in obvious distress). 

Seems the restraints cause her to full on panic at nightfall. No predators that I can see. Could be hearing things or responding to the other sheep's calls.

Still hasn't accepted him, she is now stomping when she feels him approach and kicking him off as soon as he's sucking. 


Guess I might have to hobble her next? Might stop her plowing through the Tposts?


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## Alaskan (Mar 18, 2021)

At this point...  with her struggling that much... I would be tempted to try to sell the lamb to someone that wants to bottle feed.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 18, 2021)

Can you milk her out yourself and try him on a bottle?  If your work schedule doesn't allow you to bottle feed, I would sell the lamb or give him to someone to bottle feed then send her to the auction.  By this time the ewe should have accepted the lamb and if she won't then get rid of her.


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## Beekissed (Mar 18, 2021)

Does this pen have regular fencing slats to the walls of it?  You can nail up a few boards to a wooden fence and achieve a proper headgate.  The T posts will only work if you add wooden bracing to them and they are driven deep into the ground.   That way you don't need the halter at all.  And, if you could put a sheep or two beside her pen where she could see them and feel like she's with the others it may help.  

If not wanting to do all of that, you could advertise him quickly on FB as a bottle lamb and people will come running....seems like there's a plethora of folks out there with time on their hands and a want for little things to care for.  

Definitely hobble if she's kicking him off.  She sounds like a real pill!


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## Rin (Mar 21, 2021)

*An Update:* I tried the headgate for a day and a half longer but gave up on that when she broke free repeatedly (turned out it was barn cats coming and going that was spooking her). I noticed he seemed to be doing really well despite her constant escapes so tried going back to just keeping her on a halter and catching her throughout the day and night and holding her while he feeds.

As soon as I have her by the rope, both of them know the deal. She holds still and he goes right to feeding. Once I let go of the rope she rotates away from him again. Stopped trying to kick him off, seems to specifically be a reaction to the headgate.

She's very cooperative to halter feedings. Just nibbles on my clothes and only turns to sniff him every now and then. He's also so used to it that he ran to get me this morning and hollared at me to get his mom. Reacts like a bottle baby only the "bottle" is his actual mom. 

I still went out and purchased some bottle supplies. If they just keep this up long enough then I should be able to bottle feed on one of the less frequent feeding schedules. The starting schedules just wasn't humanly possible.

They still snuggle up as a herd. He's frequently hanging out with my other lamb (she wanted a playmate so bad so she's always bugging him to play, he's almost taller than her now even though she's 3 weeks older).

I'm mostly at this point just struggling with knowing how long to hold her for each feeding or when to try and switch him to a bottle or if I even should since holding her is faster and easier than mixing a bottle up. Currently I have been alternating which teat to offer him and just standing there and letting him go at it until he seems to lose interest (looking away, grooming his hoof, trying to nibble on objects, etc.) 

He has had several nice healthy milk poops I have personally seen. Healthy amount of pee when I do see him urinate. Doesn't seem dehydrated when I pinch his skin nor does he seem to be losing any weight. Only cried the first day and this morning at all. Her udder also looks very drained and small compared to how it did at his birth.

I'm also planning to give her a second chance. Mostly because I suspect he was just a really massive lamb. He came out as big as my 3 week old ewe at the time. Same breed. Do late babies happen in sheep and are they harder on their mommas? Both ewes were exposed to the same ram at the same time, both FFs. The ewe lamb was born 3 weeks before this ram lamb was and have been the same size despite the difference in age. I know rams are typically bigger but he was kind of above and beyond that.​


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## Baymule (Mar 21, 2021)

That’s so funny, he runs to you and yells at you. LOL LOL That has to put a smile on your face, kinda makes it all worthwhile. If he is doing this good, I wouldn’t worry about a bottle. Unless the time constraints of having to hold her each time is taking up your time, I know it’s hard to work long hours plus do everything you need to do.

I’d give her a second chance also. He could have been so big for any variety of reasons. Hang in there.


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## farmerjan (Mar 21, 2021)

I would not change to a bottle lamb if he seems to be getting full during a nursing.  Too much trouble and the natural milk is better.  Just keep doing what you are doing... it is working.  He will be looking for more solid food sooner this way if he is still hungry and mixing in with the others will teach him quicker to eat.  
I think you have it working... don't look to try to mix it up now.  He might even try stealing off the other ewe if he "gets it" that the other ewe stands still for her lamb.


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## Rin (Mar 21, 2021)

Picture updates too as thanks for y'alls help.


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## Baymule (Mar 21, 2021)

Awww.... he is a fine looking boy!


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## farmerjan (Mar 21, 2021)

I think that the first one caught on the first breeding and this one caught on the next heat.  I am assuming that the ram was in there for 3-4 weeks?   since they cycle in the 21 day range, he was probably the next cycle.  Yes, ram lambs tend to be a little bigger but not set in stone. I doubt she carried him for an additional 3 weeks although I will not say it is impossible, just very unlikely even though he was bigger.   
Let him eat until he does as you said... starts to get distracted.... he looks to be in very good condition so I don't think it is hurting him any....it only takes a few minutes for them to get all the ewe has in her udder at the time....and in a short time he will reach under and suck both the teat near him and the other side, while still on the same side of the ewe....


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## Beekissed (Mar 21, 2021)

Rin said:


> Do late babies happen in sheep and are they harder on their mommas? Both ewes were exposed to the same ram at the same time, both FFs. The ewe lamb was born 3 weeks before this ram lamb was and have been the same size despite the difference in age. I know rams are typically bigger but he was kind of above and beyond that.


Sheep cycle every 17 days, so that would be about right if one ewe got bred first and the other had just finished her cycle and didn't go again until 17 days later.


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## farmerjan (Mar 22, 2021)

@Beekissed  is right.... I was thinking cows, not the sheep for cycling.... I do agree that the ewe bred again on the next cycle....


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## Rin (Mar 24, 2021)

It's a miracle!
After the whole head restraint situation; she completely lost interest in him, didn't talk to him, ignored his cries etc.

Just went to hold her for a feeding and out of nowhere she started talking to him again. Curious, I gave some slack. She looked over at him. Gave his butt a lil nuzzle. Didn't move her teats away! So I backed away a little more and more. She just kept talking to him and nuzzling him so I kept inching away. She started to walk away but he had enough of a feed and she was still talking to him so I saw it as an improvement!

Just went to put the feed bucket away. I hear her still softly making her sound and - smek smek smek. Shine my headlamp over - sure enough! She was letting him suck away all on their own!


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## Baymule (Mar 24, 2021)

Whoop!!! That’s fantastic, I know you are excited and happy over this! You have done great with her and the lamb. You never slacked off and never gave up. I’m so happy for you, the ewe and the lamb.


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## Beekissed (Mar 24, 2021)

Rin said:


> It's a miracle!
> After the whole head restraint situation; she completely lost interest in him, didn't talk to him, ignored his cries etc.
> 
> Just went to hold her for a feeding and out of nowhere she started talking to him again. Curious, I gave some slack. She looked over at him. Gave his butt a lil nuzzle. Didn't move her teats away! So I backed away a little more and more. She just kept talking to him and nuzzling him so I kept inching away. She started to walk away but he had enough of a feed and she was still talking to him so I saw it as an improvement!
> ...


Hallelujah!!!!!  Such good news!   I was hoping for that outcome.


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## Rin (Mar 24, 2021)

It wasn't a fluke!!

Here I am. Staring out a far window into the pasture. Watching him suckle away till his hearts content.

Can't tell you why it took her brain so long to flip this switch. Just can tell you I'm absolutely over the moon about it!

I really did not want to cull this ewe. Very very small flock and she was my favorite.

Her name is Lily btw, I call him Pi because he was born on Pi day. If they keep this up, I'll be placing him in the UF ram program. He's a tough lil booger despite everything.


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## Beekissed (Mar 24, 2021)

Give her another season...if she rejects next year you can make final decisions then.  Sounds like this season has been taken care of.  So glad she is mothering him!

Got any pics??


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## Baymule (Mar 24, 2021)

What is the UF ram program?


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## Rin (Mar 24, 2021)

Baymule said:


> What is the UF ram program?


https://animal.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/smallruminant/ramtest/ Linking their official page since it explains better than I could.


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## Rin (Mar 24, 2021)

Beekissed said:


> Give her another season...if she rejects next year you can make final decisions then.  Sounds like this season has been taken care of.  So glad she is mothering him!
> 
> Got any pics??


I'll try for some tomorrow. I'm so worried about jinxing it rn, haha


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## Rin (Mar 25, 2021)

Closest I could get before he swapped sides, haha. A true success.


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## Baymule (Mar 25, 2021)

Hat right there makes it all worth it!


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## farmerjan (Mar 25, 2021)

Rin said:


> It's a miracle!
> After the whole head restraint situation; she completely lost interest in him, didn't talk to him, ignored his cries etc.
> 
> Just went to hold her for a feeding and out of nowhere she started talking to him again. Curious, I gave some slack. She looked over at him. Gave his butt a lil nuzzle. Didn't move her teats away! So I backed away a little more and more. She just kept talking to him and nuzzling him so I kept inching away. She started to walk away but he had enough of a feed and she was still talking to him so I saw it as an improvement!
> ...


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## Beekissed (Mar 25, 2021)

Nice looking pair!  Good size on both of them and a successful farming episode....always makes me feel good!


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