# help...goat with worms



## lnm03 (Jan 2, 2011)

I have a male nigerian who has very pale gums and eyelids.  he is about 70lbs and I have iver-on ivermectin pour on for cattle.  how much and what is the best way to give this to him?


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## ksalvagno (Jan 2, 2011)

I'm not sure about pour on. I have the 1% injectible that you would give orally at 1cc per 25 lbs.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 2, 2011)

I believe it is basically the same amount injecting or pouring on.  You wanna use 1cc/25lbs topically.   Dribble down the backline if you can make it from neck to tail.   You wanna put it in a place they wont be able to lick.  

Its used "off label" for goats all the time.  

Good luck!!  Hope it helps.


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## chubbydog811 (Jan 2, 2011)

I didn't want to be the first to say that!

Maybe it's my goats, by the Ivomec inject-able didn't work for worms. Worked great for the lice!

I picked up a good horse de-wormer. I think I used safegaurd, and...another one. It was a gel and a green or purple box, don't remember the name right now.

They also have goat specific feed through pellets, and some safegaurd for goats...Tons of stuff on the shelf that would most likely work. I haven't tried the pellets yet, but I'm thinking I will pick up a bag.


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## Roll farms (Jan 2, 2011)

From this:  http://www.extension.org/pages/Goat_Dewormers

 If one elects to use a pour-on product, which is also not recommended, the material has to be delivered on to the skin. Parting of the hair may be necessary to achieve this, particularly if the hair is long. There are mixed reports as to whether pour-ons, approved for use in cattle only, work on goats. For the most part, they do not seem to be that effective in goats. 

I've also read that overuse of pourons can kill goats, they don't metabolize the same as cattle do.

Some good info....

http://74.6.238.254/search/srpcache...6&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=VZ36hWCAFzKc20ZAK4GQlw--

Know the worms you're dealing with, know your dewormers, and 
USE THEM WISELY.


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## Ariel301 (Jan 2, 2011)

chubbydog811 said:
			
		

> I picked up a good horse de-wormer. I think I used safegaurd, and...another one. It was a gel and a green or purple box, don't remember the name right now.


I think your other one is "Quest" moxidectin gel from the description. 

Ivermectin works best for me, I usually use the horse paste. The best thing though, is to get a fecal exam done and see what worms you are dealing with, then you can treat accordingly, as all wormers don't work on all worms, and certain areas seem to have resistance problems with certain wormers.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 2, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> From this:  http://www.extension.org/pages/Goat_Dewormers
> 
> If one elects to use a pour-on product, which is also not recommended, the material has to be delivered on to the skin. Parting of the hair may be necessary to achieve this, particularly if the hair is long. There are mixed reports as to whether pour-ons, approved for use in cattle only, work on goats. For the most part, they do not seem to be that effective in goats.
> 
> ...


Great info!!! Thanks Roll. I personally dont use pour on...but I know its used all the time on goats "off label" at the same dosage as injectable.  Did'nt realise it was so dangerously useless???


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## freemotion (Jan 2, 2011)

Use extreme caution when using dewormers for other animals (horses, etc.) on goats, as the dosage for a goat is usually much, much higher and giving a low dose creates resistant worms that will be on your property forever.  

Pour-ons do this, and using horse dewormers at the cc per lbs body weight recommended for horses will.  

I use Ivomec injectible but use it orally, 1 cc per 30 lbs body weight, err on the side of caution by giving a bit more than needed rather than a bit less.  By the time I reach for the Ivomec, there are some pale lids.  Injecting it isn't enough for certain nasties.  

I'd rather double dose with herbals and use copper and try to manage them that way as much as possible, but by the time you have pale inner eyelids, you need to act pretty quickly.

Skip the goat pellets.


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## Ariel301 (Jan 2, 2011)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Use extreme caution when using dewormers for other animals (horses, etc.) on goats, as the dosage for a goat is usually much, much higher and giving a low dose creates resistant worms that will be on your property forever.
> 
> Skip the goat pellets.


I agree. The pellets, I have tried with both goats and with horses, and it doesn't work for me. It's hard to get them to eat the darn things, they can have a bucket of pelleted feed with identical looking wormer pellets, soaked in something tasty like pancake syrup, and eat everything but the wormer. It's just too much trouble. I have found that with the paste horse wormers, the dosage that works with ivermectin in my herd is three times the normal weight dosage...so for a hundred pound goat, you would pretend it was a 300 pound goat and dose accordingly...but that is just my herd and my worms, so it won't work for everyone. Also, the paste wormer isn't cost effective if you have more than a few goats, it's just too expensive per dose at that point. I use the paste ivermectin because I don't usually have the funds on hand these days to spend on a bottle of the injectable ivomec, it's pretty costly per bottle compared to the $2 or so I pay for a tube of ivermectin, even though I think it is probably less per individual dose to go with the injectable.


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## Roll farms (Jan 2, 2011)

If you have a fecal ran, and they tell you (what I suspect) that it's barberpole...I personally would use Valbazen (1 cc per 40#) on him (never on pregnant does) for 3 days in a row...and then I would supplement him w/ either calf manna or red cell to help combat the anemia.
Recheck fecal in 2 weeks, and again 2 weeks after that...deworm again if needed.

If he gets 'down' again w/ in 3 mos, consider culling him, or he could help breed parasite resistance in your kids.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 2, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> If he gets 'down' again w/ in 3 mos, consider culling him, or he could help breed parasite resistance in your kids.


Parasite resistance or resistant parasites?


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## Roll farms (Jan 2, 2011)

Whoops...Curses, foiled again...that's what I get for typing while watching football.  
I meant resistant parasites, thanks for catching that.

What I mean is, if he's prone to getting huge worm loads, it's possible his kids will be as well.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 2, 2011)

That's what I figured you meant!  

Parasite UNresistance you could say...


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## cmjust0 (Jan 3, 2011)

lnm03 said:
			
		

> I have a male nigerian who has very pale gums and eyelids.  he is about 70lbs and I have iver-on ivermectin pour on for cattle.  how much and what is the best way to give this to him?


It's January and you're in Indiana...if this ends up being a documented barberpole problem, I'll eat my underpants.  It could be anemia, of course, but barberpoles aren't the only chupas of cabras out there...external parasites or subclinical coccidiosis could be the issue here.

Or, it could simply be dehydration..  What's his water situation like?  Are you busting ice a couple times a day, or does he have free-choice access to liquid water 24/7?  Is his water good and clean?  Is he urinating normally?...as in, as frequently as he should be?  Is he acting "down" at all?  If he's feeling sickly, he may not be drinking enough water..

Point is, don't just assume this is worms..  May not be.


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## lnm03 (Jan 3, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

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It could be dehydration....I give freshwater in the morning before work and in the evening when I get home and I do deal with frozen water.  He doesnt have diarrhea, no significant amount of weight loss I think hes actually put on a pound or two.  The only other thing I have noticed is a bit of hair loss down his spine but I just thought he was rubbing it off on the fence.  As he likes to rub on the fence all the time.


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## Roll farms (Jan 3, 2011)

I agree barberpole ain't likely...that's why I suggested a fecal....
BUT...I've had does get down w/ barberpole after kidding in January...stranger things have happened.

I've found giving them warm water when it's cold out will really increase their intake...I make sure to give it to them at meal times, when they usually drink the most (after eating).

Good luck.


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## cmjust0 (Jan 3, 2011)

lnm03 said:
			
		

> It could be dehydration....I give freshwater in the morning before work and in the evening when I get home and I do deal with frozen water.  He doesnt have diarrhea, no significant amount of weight loss I think hes actually put on a pound or two.  The only other thing I have noticed is a bit of hair loss down his spine but I just thought he was rubbing it off on the fence.  As he likes to rub on the fence all the time.


External parasites usually get worse in winter..  If he always seems itchy, to the point that he's rubbing hair off his back, consider it..  Blood loss from bugs coupled with dehydration from frozen water could, in my mind anyway, lead one to pale gums and eyelids..  It wouldn't be out of the question, anyway..

I'd probably inject this guy with about 1ml of Ivomec injectable to kill the lice, then go ahead and deworm by drenching orally with the injectable ivomec at about 1ml/25lbs just to be sure, and start him on about 10ml/day of Red Cell for about a week just to help bounce him back a little bit..

That's me, though, and I've been accused of "shotgunning" before.


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## Ariel301 (Jan 3, 2011)

If he's itchy and rubbing and losing hair, and has pale eyelids...that sounds a lot like lice to me.


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## lnm03 (Jan 4, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

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IVOMEC injectable for cattle right?  I have red cell.  I just add it to his food right?  he doesnt seemt to eat a whole lot of it when I have red cell on it.


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## ksalvagno (Jan 4, 2011)

I would give the red cell through a dosing syringe. You need to give it separate from the feed. And yes, Ivomec for cattle.


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## glenolam (Jan 4, 2011)

lnm03 said:
			
		

> IVOMEC injectable for cattle right?  I have red cell.  I just add it to his food right?  he doesnt seemt to eat a whole lot of it when I have red cell on it.


Don't forget to re-dose him with ivomec in 10 days.  I had a little buckling who was covered in mites.  Gave him a shot of ivomec and followed it up 10 days later with great results.  I also doused him with red cell & it helped him bounce back faster than I expected.

As for the red cell - you can break up the doses if you don't want to struggle with getting 10ml down once a day.  I gave my guy about 6-7 mls twice a day (ended up wearing some of it) so it was easier on the two of us.  Just take a clean syringe (no needle of course) and suck up the red cell right from the bottle.


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## cmjust0 (Jan 4, 2011)

Yeah, I wouldn't add the Red Cell it to his feed -- I always drench with it.  If drenching is commonly a problem for ya, I'd suggest using an actual drench syringe...they work really, really well and make it easier on *everyone* involved, including YOU.  

_Especially_ you, actually..  I've drenched some *nasty* stuff with a drench syringe, but they're made to basically not give the animal a choice but to swallow or choke -- and they *will* swallow before they'll choke, trust me.  Pretty much an involuntary response.  

And yeah, I'm talking ivermectin 1% injectable for cattle.  When *injecting* it for external parasites, my own personal experience has been that label dose (1ml/110lbs) is sufficient because it goes straight into the bloodstream.  When given orally, as you'd do for worms, most of it is flushed straight through the GI tract and kills worms through direct contact..  It hardly enters the bloodstream at all that way.  It's all got to do with what they call the "pharmacokinetic profile" of orally administered drugs..  

Yeah, I know...  :/  Just suffice it to say that injected ivermectin works really well on external goat bugs.  It's perfectly fine to give SQ, too...no need to IM it.


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## lnm03 (Jan 4, 2011)

is Ivomec the same as Ivermax?  From what I have read it is but I wanna check!


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## cmjust0 (Jan 4, 2011)

If it's a 1% ivermectin injectable solution for cattle, then yeah...there are several generic/competitor brands of it these days.


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