# Anatolian Vs. Pyr



## crystal.dirty (Aug 5, 2012)

I expect to be looking for a new LGD by the end of this year.  My current "LGD", is an Anatolian/Pyr mix, and she a chicken chaser.  I love her, and she has found a place on our farm by being a "Garden Guardian", she keeps the deer and other garden pests at bay.  Anyhow, I am interested in hearing what everyone's opinions about the positives and negatives of each breed.  I will be adding Icelandic sheep, if all goes well at the end of the year and I know that I will need a "real" LGD to protect my investment.

Thanks!


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Aug 5, 2012)

Here are some of the pros and cons of the Anatolian Shepard and Great Pyrenees. A Pyr will be much better with other people and other animals. As long as you are with the people/person then the dog will let them in and be OK with them. An Anatolian more than likely won't, unless you and the dog have a strong bond and it really trusts you. You MUST raise an Anatolian with other dogs so it doesn't kill them. If you just throw a dog with an Anatolian then it will more than likely kill it. A Pyr will kill most anything that comes in or around it's animals. Females are much more fierce than the males. The males are big babies. They want to love on you all the time. They will still guard but not as well as a female will. With the Anatolian the males are more fierce. That can be an issue though. It is hard to get them to listen and they do their own thing. With the females, they are just as fierce but easier to work with and not as hard-headed. The good thing about an Anatolian is they will kill ANYTHING that comes in there. They are the fiercest guard dogs out there. They were bred to kill wolves. Both the Pyr and the Anatolian get about the same size. They can both be raised with goats, sheep and other livestock. You have to train them with chickens because they will kill them until you do. If you want to raise them with cattle then the Anatolian is better. People who have huge farms with hundreds of acres of pasture use the Anatolian Shepard. One of the real upsides for the Anatolian is they can take the extreme heat and the extreme cold. They were bred in Turkey were it is either really hot or really cold. The Pyrs can take the cold, but not the heat. Places like North Carolina is about as far south as they can go. Any further is to hot for them. The biggest downside to the Anatolian is the price tag. it is very hard finding one for under $1000. Prys can go for as low as $200. If you want a good one it will be between $400-$800.  I hope this helps and GL on your search.


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## crystal.dirty (Aug 7, 2012)

Thank you for the information!

I understand that LGDs work best in pairs, would a pair of 1 Anatolian and 1 Pyr work well together?  Or is it best to keep them in pairs of like breeds?


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Aug 7, 2012)

I think it would work. If you have both males then they WILL fight. Anatolian males are the boss and likely want to kill the Pyr. I would get a male and female or both females. Both female will probably duke it out for the Alpha position though. If you get a male Pyr and a female Anatolian, I think that would be best. Males Pyrs are much "nicer" towards humans such as a female Anatolian is "nicer" than a male will be. Right now I have a female Anatolian in with a female and a female Pyr. They seem to be doing good so far. I do have to say that Anatolians are my favorite. They are very fierce and can even take down wolves. My Anatolian was barking at strange things at just 9 weeks!! The one male Pyr started at about 7 months. My Anatolain will see and hear anything and lets you and whatever is out there know.

Please keep in mind that both dogs are great at what they do. It completely depends on what you are looking for in the dog, and what you want it to do.


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## MonsterMalak (Aug 9, 2012)

Straw Hat,,,,,, You know your dogs.   

Have to say that you have summed it up well.

The Turkish breeds are a more capable breed in dealing with the larger predators in my opinion.  But they are not meant for every situation.
Knowledge of dogs and the dynamics is beneficial.

Thanks


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## EllieMay (Feb 14, 2013)

Great advice, Straw!
I also have both Pyrs and Turkish Kangals.
They were all put together as pups, so they get along great.
HOWEVER, if I feed all the dogs in the same vicinity, I have to stand there and wait till they're all done since my male Kangal is very food aggressive.
Because of the size of these dogs, I made sure they are all basic obedience trained (sit and stay) so that I can just tell my Kangal to 'sit' and he'll sit there while the rest of the dogs finish eating.
But, yeah, the Turkish breeds are fierce and a good knowledge of the breeds is extremely important before bringing one home.


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## goodolboy (Feb 14, 2013)

Straw, you sure don't leave much to comment on. Good job. I will add that we live in central KY with GP and the older male we have, we shear every summer. But the females we have had shed real good and we never had to worry with them. We have 4 of the males pups now but they haven't been thru a summer yet, but their coats don't seem as thick as their dads, more like their mom, so I hope they will shed good.

The extra hair just makes the male want to look for shade instead of patrol, so we shear him to make him more active. Know the preditors in your area before you do this because the dogs hair is a defence and you don't want to make the dog vulnerable. In that case you'd want the shorter haired dogs.


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## EllieMay (Feb 14, 2013)

Last summer I spent a lot of days brushing my pyrs.
They GREATLY enjoyed it.  It was good to get that thick winter undercoat out.
My Kangals, of course, wanted to be brushed, too.  (Took all of 5 seconds. lol)
The dogs really enjoy their brushing sessions.
The time is also spent checking their skin and body for any abnormalities or parasites.
But don't tell them that.


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## goodolboy (Feb 14, 2013)

Ours will need a good brushing if your volunteering.


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## GriffinRidgeFarm (Feb 14, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> One of the real upsides for the Anatolian is they can take the extreme heat and the extreme cold. They were bred in Turkey were it is either really hot or really cold. The Pyrs can take the cold, but not the heat. Places like North Carolina is about as far south as they can go. Any further is to hot for them.


I just wanted to say that this is not entirely true, I live in Alabama and I have 3 Great Pyrs. When they are hot they get into the duck pools to cool off  also, I know 4 or 5 other people with GP's that also live in Alabama


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 14, 2013)

theeggboxtoo said:
			
		

> Straw Hat Kikos said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure you can have them there but really, imo, it is not a very good idea. I have talked to vets and know of vets that don't even like them here in NC. They were bred for the really cold, not the really hot. So again, while people do have them there it is not the best idea and they do have issues in the heat. That is fact.


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## EllieMay (Feb 18, 2013)

When we moved to Costa Rica, there was another American family who just moved there and they brought their Grt Pyr with them. 
That was the most miserable dog I had ever seen in my life.
Everyone told her to send the dog back to the States and just get a 'Tico' dog as a pet. 
It is just too hot and humid for a dog like that.
And with that thick undercoat, it just locked in the humidity causing the poor dog to walk around in its own self-contained sauna.
I don't know whatever happened to that dog.


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## Ranchhandok (Mar 25, 2013)

It is good to hear the difference in dog breeds. I will be looking for some guard dogs the summer. Every bit of information helps.


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## bcnewe2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Can you talk more about Anatolians?  I'm considering getting one. But I have prayed and looked for a "special" dog.  I've had pyrs, akbash and mixes with no problems except they were all travelers and tended to make their territories as big as they could. Was ok where we lived previously but  not now. I brought with me a female akbash but she was way to people friendly so would be off visiting neighbors who were super nice to her and i think fed her treats. Didn't want to make a stink about it being new to the neighborhood.  So eventually we placed her in a pet home as she just didn't want to stay with her sheep anymore.

So now I have nothing and lots of lambs on the ground.
I decided to look for a semi feral female LGD that was already used to free range chickens, and lambs or other small babies. needed one already working a bit as fencing is light and neighbors are plentiful.   Didn't really think I'd find what I was looking for but I have.  Now I have to make a decision if the dog will be right for us.

I have working dogs (border collies), always have. They and the LGD's get used to each other and have always been fine.  Are Anatolian that much more aggressive than other LGD's?  My Akbash fought off bears and cougars in CO.  Most we have here are coyotes, fox and other small predators, and of course neighborhood dogs.
I found that all my other dogs were easy on anything unless something had bad energy or intent.  Then they backed it right off the property.  I even had a bad human come up to me and the dogs responded totally different compared to how the greeted friendly people.

Just wondering if a ASD is the right dog for us.

This has been an interesting thread.  I had a pyrs down in AR, I brushed them all the time and he had a pond to lounge in but he suffered ear problems for ever.  I also had a smooth coated pyr down there, he did much better.  The akbash were rather smooth or at least not like a pyr but they were so thickly undercoated they were more miserable here in MO than other dogs I've had.

Thanks for any comments.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 12, 2013)

Anatolians are no different... they are great dogs. 

I love my pyrs but our Anatolian is the easiest of the bunch. *Much of the hype about Toli's come from Toli people*.LOL- they are just passionate about them and "the anatolian is the best guardian out their-period" attitude has perpetuated this myth of aggression. Just being honest.

When I looked for my LGD' I had experience with Tibetan Mastiff, Anatolians, and Kuvasz- little with pyrs. In the beginning I really wanted the Kuvasz but couldn't find working stock for under $1000- then the Anatolians were my 2nd choice- same thing, nothing reasonable- ended up with my pyrs and then later an Anatolian.

I love love love my pyrs... from a strictly non- biased opinion ( I have canine background for over 3 decades) Toli's have been "hyped".
They are excellent LGD's and easier to work with than pyrs... Our Toli's lines are not wanderers... her breeder has one that roams the property- no fenceline whatsoever...all the rest are in the fields. Our Toli will stay with you if you bring her out of the fields, more Shepherd like, our Pyrs- HECK NO!  Toli's listen better and take instruction well...pyrs much more stubborn and hard headed. Toli's bark more but all ours have outgrown the nonsense of barking all the time... I don't tolerate it.  Maremmas are great also but IMO really lack size.

I LOVE MY PYRS- but they can be a PITA sometimes.  Toli's are also much quicker guardians.. start earlier . Hope it helps


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## bcnewe2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Thanks Southern I think you helped me make my decision. All dogs are as good as you train them to be including lgd's but pyrs sure have that wandering need.  Personally I have never seen a guard dog stay in a fence that wanted to get out. But that's just my experience and I"m sure they can be contained, it's just never went that way for us. when you get to fencing lg acres it's hard to make it dog proof, if it was, it'd be predator proof too, or at least that's what it feels like!

I am passionate about all the breeds of LGD's we've had. They are amazing to me. So natural at what they are bred to do. Like a good border collie doing what it was bred to do. Art in motion.  When you see a guard dog doing it's job it takes my breath away!

I feel so much better after reading your post. Just what I needed to hear!


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## Southern by choice (Apr 12, 2013)

bcnewe2 said:
			
		

> I am passionate about all the breeds of LGD's we've had. They are amazing to me. So natural at what they are bred to do. Like a good border collie doing what it was bred to do. Art in motion.  When you see a guard dog doing it's job it takes my breath away!


Well said- and my background is herding and working dogs! I have GSD's well only 1 right now... and yes it is amazing to watch dogs do what they do!! My GSD is not herding trained- schutzhund background but she still has the instinct to herd. 

Many many years ago my old gsd's would herd my then young children to where they felt they should be.... my children use to say MOM- they are doingit again! It was always amazing how fast they could effortlessly move all the children to the swingset and the children never knew they were being herded til they were there. LOL

I love your line- *Art in motion*!


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## woodsie (Apr 12, 2013)

bcnewe2 said:
			
		

> Thanks Southern I think you helped me make my decision. All dogs are as good as you train them to be including lgd's but pyrs sure have that wandering need.  Personally I have never seen a guard dog stay in a fence that wanted to get out. But that's just my experience and I"m sure they can be contained, it's just never went that way for us. when you get to fencing lg acres it's hard to make it dog proof, if it was, it'd be predator proof too, or at least that's what it feels like!
> 
> I am passionate about all the breeds of LGD's we've had. They are amazing to me. So natural at what they are bred to do. Like a good border collie doing what it was bred to do. Art in motion.  When you see a guard dog doing it's job it takes my breath away!
> 
> I feel so much better after reading your post. Just what I needed to hear!


That's exactly how I felt...if I can keep a Pyr in with my fence...no predator is going to get in anyhow. That being said I did finally figure out a system that seems to work. 

I have farm and field fencing with planks in the gateways between fields that the dogs can get through but sheep and goats wont jump...then IN ADDITION I have the invisible fence radio wire that runs along the perimeter fence so the dogs get a shock if they get within 12 feet of the fencing...this way they can't get close enough to the fencing to dig or climb the fence without getting shocked continuously. I think I finally solved the problem of keeping Pyrs in the yard but guarding more than one field at a time. That being said I am also adding some hotwire to save my fence from being used as  a scratching post and it probably wont hurt as a second line of proteaction for the dogs too. But I only have six acres to fence not 160.


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## bcnewe2 (Apr 13, 2013)

Thanks Southern
I do love my dogs. Ok so I love most dogs.  But when I get to commutate with an alien species I am most in awe!  
It was dogs that got me into sheep. I wish I could say it was the other way around but....got a border collie, bit the neighbor kid, her dad told me I needed to teach that dog to herd!...What? Herd?  it was all down hill from there. Within 6 months we had a little 5 acre place and our lives had changed forever!

That sweet dog just passed away last spring at 16,  She was never that good at herding BUT....she was a heart dog for sure.

Then years later I found I needed a LGD. Had never really experienced one. Got 2 puppies about 4 months old.  Again that was it. I was head over heels in love with the guarding breeds.

There is probably no dog that I don't like but I truly love the dogs that are still doing what they were bred to do.

And Woodsie, I sure wish you luck containing your dogs!  I'm probably not going to even try.  But I have found a dog that is already working and people shy so that should do a great deal in the area of keeping her from visiting the neighbors which is my other main goal with a guard dog.

I would never imagine a underground fence being hot enough or containing enough to do the job but maybe with all the rest of your security measures you will win the battle. Keep me posted!


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## Ridgetop (Jan 11, 2018)

bcnewe2 said:


> I decided to look for a semi feral female LGD that was already used to free range chickens, and lambs or other small babies. needed one already working a bit as fencing is light and neighbors are plentiful. Didn't really think I'd find what I was looking for but I have. Now I have to make a decision if the dog will be right for us.



If by semi feral you mean shy of humans and not too approachable - NO NO NO!  The best LGDs are socialized and trained. yu need to be able to work with yiur dog in case of emergency.  What if it tangles with a cougar or bear, you will need to get it treated.  It will need vaccinations without being so wild or afraid of you it will bite the vet or you. 

You only have 6 acres so 1 LGD will work for you as you get to know her  I agree that Pyrs are great rovers.  They are made to travel long distances with the flocks.  Our Pyrs were great guardians but guarded our neighbors property too.  They guarded by traveling out to move all predators back from our property.  Fine 30 years ago but not now.  Fewer livestock people and more city people who want large estates.  We switched to Anatolians after losing our last Pyr to cancer.  We started with an 18 month old trained female.  When she was 4 we added a 4 month old male pup so he could learn from her.  His training is still intensive and he is more family/home protective while she is more sheep.  He is 20 months old and still a pupppy receiving training.  Both are very dominant dogs (a Toli characteristic since they were bred to fight to the death against large dangerous predators) however male Anatolians constantly push the boundaries to see if you are still the dominant pack member or if they can slip in and take your place.  This is because they think they are better at it than you LOL.

Start with a trained female and add a second puppy later.  The adult Anatolian will accept a puppy but not a new adult dog. Two Anatolians are a lot to train up front.  We knew we needed another when the neighborhood started seeing cougar depredations.  California protects them and they are making a comeback, and unfortunately no longer afraid of humans.  With an LGD or 2 though you do not have to shoot or trap anything.  LGDs will set up the perimeter with their flocks and predators will just stay out of their way.  If they don't stay away they are dead.  We added a male so the two females would not fight.  The male and female will still get into it if she think she needs to punish him (he's still a  puppy remember).  I am older and back out of their scraps.  Lots of noise and ferocity but rarely any blood.  I just don't want 275 lbs. of snarling, fighting dogs to knock me over!

Anatolians do bark, but not as much as some of the other breeds.  When a predator does have the guts/stupidity to come after a lamb, they do not make a sound.  Just 2 yellow streaks heading for a kill.  When they are going after a coyote to kill it there is n barking or warning.  The coyote has aready signed its own death warrant by ignoring their territorial markings.  All predatators know the boundaries of an LGD's territory just as they know the boundaries of their own and rival predator's hunting territory.  I have seen my dogs work when a coyote came over the fence after a lamb- no barking just action.  We now have the only vegetarian coyote in the state!  LOL

Hope this helps.  Whatever breed you get make sure to socialize and train it.  The days of believing that the only LGD was untouched by humans is over and we know the best ones are socialized and trained.  You still need control over your dog.


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## Beekissed (Jan 24, 2018)

Excellent post, Ridgetop!


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## Ridgetop (Jan 24, 2018)

Thanks!  I love our Anatolians (loved our Pyrs too LOL) but had a real problem making up my mind to get a Toli after losing our last Pyr.  We got our first LGDs 30 years ago and that was in the "don't touch them or they won't guard" days.  We socialized our Pyrs since we were 4-H leaders and had kids on the property constantly.  Luckily they had terrific temperament since we did not socialize them as much as I believe LGDs _should_ be socialized now.  Todays Anatolians have much better temperament and are more consistent than 30 years ago, especially if you get one from a good breeder who takes the time to help you.  Both of mine were bred by Eric Conard in Texas.  The female - 5 yrs. - is perfection while the male - 20 months - is still a work in progress!  LOL  Eric has given us so much help and is always there for us when we have a problem or just want to share some milestone or amazing thing they have done.  He has become a good friend over the years.  My big peeve is people who have been told they can get an LGD breed and just toss it in the yard and it will automatically become a great LGD.  We need to help new LGD owners all we can so they will have the best possible experience with these wonderful dogs.


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## Mike CHS (Jan 24, 2018)

Folks that just throw them into the pasture have absolutely no idea what they are missing.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 24, 2018)

So true!  I was there 30 years ago though with my first LGD.  I was advised by the breeder - a Montana rancher - not to ruin the dog by petting him etc., just throw him in the goat pen and he would automatically guard.  He was only 14 weeks old at the time!  Luckily, our 4 kids ignored my instructions on that!  LOL We had to protect_ him_ from aggressive does!  lol  he taught us a lot.  I learned that a young dog will judge whether he can take on an intruder.  I did not know that "play away" behavior was a form of removing a possible predator from the flock if the LGD was too small or too young to take the predator on.   I thought he was a bad guardian until I learned about it.  Once fully mature he did not bother with "play away" behaviors.  He was a great dog as were all the LGDs that followed, in spite of our poor training. 
Eric (Anatolians) was the first breeder who really gave me quality instructions on training an LGD.  Since then I have read so much good advice on this site.  There is a big difference between the LGD breeds in the style of protection.  My dogs continually teach me how fascinating these breeds are in what they have been bred to do for centuries!  I continually learn from their behaviors.  Our female punishes our young male when he gets too excited about newborn lambs.  She grabs his  muzzle in her jaws and walks him back out of the barn and then makes him stay outside until he calms down.  He is learning from her and us how to approach new moms.  I love these dogs! 
We all need to be back up and help for new LGD owners.


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## mystang89 (Feb 1, 2018)

I have to weigh in on the GP. I only have one and I have 7 acres, fences with she fencing, 48". She will go to the parts that have H-braces and use the braces to help her boost her way over the fence. NO way to keep her in.... Yet. So I completely agree with people saying that GP will road. They will. (Tax season is coming and I'll be getting electric wire for the top of my fence. We'll see if that stops her. Though I'm kinda thinking I might not need a LGD after the electric wire anyway lol.


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