# Sick goat, and how I’m treating him



## messybun (Apr 8, 2022)

So, I have a sick goat and wanted to record what I’m doing for him. In all honesty I don’t expect him to make it. But I want to document what I’m doing to see if anyone has suggestions or maybe it can help someone.
To start, my goat is a mixed breed. I suspect he has boer, the people we got him from swore he was Nubian/Pygmy. He is at least 12 years old. 
For a few days I noticed he was a little more away from the herd. But I’ve been super busy and not been watching as closely as I should have. Yesterday he was laying down in the shade and just off. You know when your instincts say something is off. I figured it was the heat, but when I went out he was freezing cold. This goat is always prone to worms, but this year has been bad. Our natural wormers that have been sufficient for nearly eight years weren’t cutting it. Some of my goats who have never struggled in their lives had trouble with worms over the winter even. I digress. He has junky eyes and nose. His breathing sounds rough, but his lungs are clear. His jaw was also tight and muscle tremors started in his jaw a few hours after I found him. I put him on penicillin and vitamin b. Vitamin b to increase appetite and energy. Penicillin if he has a full body infection and to keep the head gunk from moving to his lungs. A friend had injectable ivermectin, so we used that while I’m waiting for the paste to ship in. I plan to check and dose all the other goats. This goat also has been forced molasses water since yesterday evening to keep fluids and sugar up. This morning he accepted fluids. But a few hours later his throat seems closed off. The water I Syringed choked him a little bit and it came pouring back out of his mouth. He keeps putting his head in the water bucket but I can’t tell if he’s drinking. I did some sub q fluids, but his muscles won’t absorb it like normal. I’m used to doing those on dogs and rabbits though, not sure how much a goat differs  in feeling. With the closed throat I gave crushed Benadryl mixed with molasses and rubbed it on his gums. The molasses to keep up his blood sugar and the Benadryl to help either his throat or an allergic reaction he may or may not be having. In either case it won’t hurt so might as well try it. He’s standing staring at the wall right now. He was laying down last night and wouldn’t get up. So, at least that’s slight improvement. He’s also now pretty warm. It is terrifying how fast he’s losing weight. 
I’m thinking a severe parasite infection or listeriosis. Neither fit exactly, but I don’t know what else it could be.


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## Mini Horses (Apr 8, 2022)

Sorry the ole guy is sick.   It does sound like  worm load and/or listeriosis should be considered.   Do you have any LA200?   If mine, I'd use that for a couple days to see if it helps.  You can give liquid ivermectin orally, not sure if you knew.     Syringe Nutridrench with the water....under the tongue liquids absorb, if swallowing is a problem.  Benadryl helps with swelling.

If he had a heavy worm load, they usually produce a toxin when they die and that can affect your goat for a couple days.   As you know, we do our best guess to help them.  He's probably not drinking but, wants to...instinct.

I hope he comes around for you.  It's hard to watch.  I've had success and failure, so know how your feeling.   please keep us updated, we care.


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## messybun (Apr 8, 2022)

Mini Horses said:


> Sorry the ole guy is sick.   It does sound like  worm load and/or listeriosis should be considered.   Do you have any LA200?   If mine, I'd use that for a couple days to see if it helps.  You can give liquid ivermectin orally, not sure if you knew.     Syringe Nutridrench with the water....under the tongue liquids absorb, if swallowing is a problem.  Benadryl helps with swelling.
> 
> If he had a heavy worm load, they usually produce a toxin when they die and that can affect your goat for a couple days.   As you know, we do our best guess to help them.  He's probably not drinking but, wants to...instinct.
> 
> I hope he comes around for you.  It's hard to watch.  I've had success and failure, so know how your feeling.   please keep us updated, we care.


Is nutridrench different than electrolyte solution? Oh,  I also added a calcium supplement. It’s made for does right before and after labor, but I figured it couldn’t hurt, right. I do not have any la200 I’m afraid.
Is there anything I can do for the worm toxins?
I injected because my thinking went slower, longer release, may be better. I’ve honestly never had to use ivermectin before so I just don’t know what’s best.


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## Alaskan (Apr 8, 2022)

messybun said:


> Is nutridrench different than electrolyte solution? Oh,  I also added a calcium supplement. It’s made for does right before and after labor, but I figured it couldn’t hurt, right. I do not have any la200 I’m afraid.
> Is there anything I can do for the worm toxins?
> I injected because my thinking went slower, longer release, may be better. I’ve honestly never had to use ivermectin before so I just don’t know what’s best.


For my goats I always injected the ivermectin,  as told to by the vet...  so, I think that is good.

You said stiff jaw and I thought lockjaw/tetanus.   

Sub Q fluids should be great for any animal... odd that he isn't absorbing like the dogs or rabbits you have done...  no idea why he should be different ... makes me wonder that it must be a symptom of what us wrong with him....  but what "wrong" thing would make an animal absorb fluids differently?

Is he super dehydrated? Any spit in his mouth?  Is he peeing?  

How is he today?


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## messybun (Apr 9, 2022)

Alaskan said:


> For my goats I always injected the ivermectin,  as told to by the vet...  so, I think that is good.
> 
> You said stiff jaw and I thought lockjaw/tetanus.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately he passed away this morning. I took a postmortem blood sample, y’all it was scary. His blood was pink pink. I have one other goat with symptoms, got more ivermectin from my friend for her and am waiting for paste, should be here Monday. How long does injectable ivermectin last? I also dry lotted (believe that’s the right phrase) my remaining goats. So, fence panels around their cleaned houses. Almost no grass, it will be gone by tomorrow. All their food is up off the ground and they have wood shavings for bedding instead of straw, but I’ll probably have to use straw later.
I would think tetanus, but his legs weren’t stiff. And I could open his jaw, his throat was just swollen. Which did get some better after the Benadryl.
He did pee a tiny bit, but didn’t have enough fluids to do much. His legs were wobbly, first back legs then front. I helped him stand twice because he wanted to. On the second time helping him stand yesterday evening I could see the fight was over and gave him pain meds. I hadn’t because I didn’t want to screw with his kidneys. I’m so glad I did. As far as spit, I can’t tell what liquid was coming from his mouth. He had molasses so it might have been, or maybe water. He drooled for quite a while. Dangled his head over his water dish too. Maybe it was water leaking from his mouth? 

I’m sad over him, but I’m really worried about my others. I have a really bad feeling about my smallest goat, she’s only got some of the symptoms, but something says she’s worse than she looks. After big boy went downhill so fast I’m a little unsettled but I don’t know what I can do. 

As far as the sub q, his skin was tight. I’m used to scruffy animals, maybe that was it. Or maybe I did it wrong. I did it between his shoulder and his neck because that’s where the loosest skin was.


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## Alaskan (Apr 10, 2022)

messybun said:


> Unfortunately he passed away this morning. I took a postmortem blood sample, y’all it was scary. His blood was pink pink. I have one other goat with symptoms, got more ivermectin from my friend for her and am waiting for paste, should be here Monday. How long does injectable ivermectin last? I also dry lotted (believe that’s the right phrase) my remaining goats. So, fence panels around their cleaned houses. Almost no grass, it will be gone by tomorrow. All their food is up off the ground and they have wood shavings for bedding instead of straw, but I’ll probably have to use straw later.
> I would think tetanus, but his legs weren’t stiff. And I could open his jaw, his throat was just swollen. Which did get some better after the Benadryl.
> He did pee a tiny bit, but didn’t have enough fluids to do much. His legs were wobbly, first back legs then front. I helped him stand twice because he wanted to. On the second time helping him stand yesterday evening I could see the fight was over and gave him pain meds. I hadn’t because I didn’t want to screw with his kidneys. I’m so glad I did. As far as spit, I can’t tell what liquid was coming from his mouth. He had molasses so it might have been, or maybe water. He drooled for quite a while. Dangled his head over his water dish too. Maybe it was water leaking from his mouth?
> 
> ...


Wow...

Always scary when you aren't sure what is going on.



Total wow over the blood color...  so...  the red color in blood is from iron... so..  pink blood would be crazy low iron, which means parasites, or some something that is causing lots of bleeding. 

Parasites are the most likely cause.

For super low iron..  red cell paste, that super high in Iron paste, is what you want.

As to how long ivermectin lasts...  the question is what kinds of parasites, and will ivermectin kill them?

I think sub q fluids work in any area where you can get it between the muscle and the skin.  I don't think it matters where on the body you put it.


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## Alaskan (Apr 10, 2022)

Is there anyway you can get a fecal done?  So you know what worms you are dealing with?

Also... the congestion you are hearing... any way that could be lung worm or some other parasite?


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## messybun (Apr 11, 2022)

Alaskan said:


> Is there anyway you can get a fecal done?  So you know what worms you are dealing with?
> 
> Also... the congestion you are hearing... any way that could be lung worm or some other parasite?


I don’t know if it could be lung worm. Weirdest part is his lungs were completely clear until death. No rattle, shake, crackle. Nothing. It was all in his throat and nose.

I’ve been struggling with parasites all winter, so I’m assuming that too. That’s why my remaining are on a dry lot and going to get treated according to needs. Im trying to prevent reinfection as far as I can. 
I actually called around and found out our state lab accepts samples from owners, no vet required. How do I get a fecal from my living goats ( I didn’t think to get anything but blood while big boy was still available) for them to check? Or could I check myself, I do have a microscope.


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## Alaskan (Apr 11, 2022)

@Baymule  do you have suggestions as to a website or something with a step by step on how to do a fecal?

As for taking it to the vet....  you might want to call and ask how they want it delivered.....  but usually it is along the line of a ziplock bag, turn it inside out and use it a bit like a glove, stick one finger inside anus of the animal and get a small smear of poo.  Then turn ziplock bag rightside out ... hopefully outsude is clean.   And take to vet.

The vet usually uses this plastic thing that looks like a small loop on a stick.


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## messybun (Apr 11, 2022)

Alaskan said:


> @Baymule  do you have suggestions as to a website or something with a step by step on how to do a fecal?
> 
> As for taking it to the vet....  you might want to call and ask how they want it delivered.....  but usually it is along the line of a ziplock bag, turn it inside out and use it a bit like a glove, stick one finger inside anus of the animal and get a small smear of poo.  Then turn ziplock bag rightside out ... hopefully outsude is clean.   And take to vet.
> 
> The vet usually uses this plastic thing that looks like a small loop on a stick.



Okay. Easy enough 😂. Now to get them to cooperate. It’s directly to the state lab if that makes a difference. A assume I just sticker and label the baggies? Do I need ice or anything in the box?


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## Alaskan (Apr 11, 2022)

messybun said:


> Okay. Easy enough 😂. Now to get them to cooperate. It’s directly to the state lab if that makes a difference. A assume I just sticker and label the baggies? Do I need ice or anything in the box?


Call them and ask.

Not sure....  I never shipped poo for worm testing.


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## messybun (Apr 11, 2022)

Alaskan said:


> Call them and ask.
> 
> Not sure....  I never shipped poo for worm testing.


The lovely things we do for our animals. 
I’ve never had mine sick like this,  So I’m still figuring out how to proceed. Thank you so much for the help.


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## messybun (Apr 11, 2022)

Okay, found the lab and called them. 
2 tbs per sample and ice packs for overnight shipping. I think I’ll test the worst one and one other to see what we’ve got going on overall. Lady on the phone was super helpful and put me on the top of the stack, so should get those results quickly. 
I never knew that the state lab was accessible for owners, a door of opportunity. I wish I’d have known when we lost other animals, I would have loved to have known what happened.


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## messybun (Apr 16, 2022)

Okay. The femacha scores are still really bad for my goats. One is worse actually. I’ll try to get pictures later today and see if someone on here can check what I’m seeing. I picked up fenbendazole at the feedstore yesterday, I need to double check safety and all, but I was thinking at combining that with the ivermectin to kick these nasties. 
They’ve also been getting free feed minerals, pumpkin seeds, and sunflower seeds. The pumpkin seeds are supposed to paralyze worms and the sunflower seeds are supposed to have iron and be fattening. I don’t want to overdose on iron, but seeds shouldn’t have enough to hurt and they need it! Corn is available as well. Fresh veggie scraps and free hay. Not to mention little goodies. Is there anything I’m missing or could do?


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## Mini Horses (Apr 16, 2022)

Garlic also helps with lessening worm load.  

Spray their area with strong bleach water.   Actually a bleach/water spray on shorter grass pastures has shown to help with worm load, killing some larvae before injesting.  You let it rest a couple days before grazing again.

I used to have a State lab just 20 minutes away but, sadly it was closed.  Not sure how close another is.  But they will perform a lot of testing at very reasonable cost -- including necropsy.  Check that out for future.  Also, vets DO send samples there for testing.  

Wishing you much luck with you herds recovery.


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## messybun (Apr 16, 2022)

Mini Horses said:


> Garlic also helps with lessening worm load.
> 
> Spray their area with strong bleach water.   Actually a bleach/water spray on shorter grass pastures has shown to help with worm load, killing some larvae before injesting.  You let it rest a couple days before grazing again.
> 
> ...



The bleach won’t kill the grass? I’m glad to know that! I actually bleached and scrubbed their shelter  just because, apparently that was the right thing to do.
I know a vet would send for testing, but I don’t have a vet. Makes it a bit more difficult at times like this. But you learn to swim one way or another, hopefully.  

Can I use garlic with ivermectin and possibly fenbendazole? I don’t want to overdue and hurt more than I’m helping.

Speaking of, have you ever used fenbendazole with ivermectin? What I’ve been reading online is kind of conflicting. I don’t want to create super worms, but I might already be dealing with them. The ivermectin sure doesn’t seem to be working as well as I expected. Is it possible my goats have medicine resistant worms, seeing as I haven’t chemically wormed them for as long as I’ve had them (at least 6 years)?


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## Alaskan (Apr 16, 2022)

Ivermectin doesn't kill everything. And yes, there are some areas of the country where parasites are developing resistance to Ivermectin. 

That is one reason why it is important to know what worms you are dealing with.

Different worms respond to different drugs.

And different parasites have different life cycles.  It is easier to control parasites if you know which parasite you are dealing with.

For anemic goats... I would get Red Cell at the feed store (I think it is usually marketed for pigs) and give all pale goats a dose.

And... on Monday get someone to do a fecal, so you know what parasites you are dealing with.


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## Alaskan (Apr 16, 2022)

If you have already used the ivermectin,  then...  since they are worse, no point to use it again.....  try the fenbendazole


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## Mini Horses (Apr 16, 2022)

Agree best to know what worms.   Also be aware that heavy worm kill offs will make the animal somewhat "droopy" from the toxins of dead worms.    So you won't see a next day rejuvenation like aspirin for a headache with a goodnight sleep.   Couple days or so.  In a week or two you'll see better, smoother hair coats and weight gain, more activity.

Red cell is also avail in the horse area. 😊

You use like a half cup bleach per gal on grass.  Garlic just put on their grain maybe twice a month.


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## messybun (Apr 17, 2022)

Mini Horses said:


> Agree best to know what worms.   Also be aware that heavy worm kill offs will make the animal somewhat "droopy" from the toxins of dead worms.    So you won't see a next day rejuvenation like aspirin for a headache with a goodnight sleep.   Couple days or so.  In a week or two you'll see better, smoother hair coats and weight gain, more activity.
> 
> Red cell is also avail in the horse area. 😊
> 
> You use like a half cup bleach per gal on grass.  Garlic just put on their grain maybe twice a month.


Interesting.


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