# 8 & 9mo bucks. Can I weather now or how many does to buy?



## RareBreedFancier (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi all 

I bought two buck kids as pets and weed eaters. The younger one is nearly pure Boar and the older one is 3/4 Boar 1/4 Dairy breed. I asked for them to be weathered when I bought them but was told it was too early and to get them done later... well now they are 8mo and 9mo and the younger one has hit maturity and is being horrible to his friend.  They aren't so much fighting as one is beating the other up. I've caught him slamming the other boy into the wall of the shed.  I've had to resort to tethering them out of reach of one another till I put some more fencing up.

I never intended to breed them but I'm now wondering if it's to late to weather them? I wanted rings put on when they were 2mo and 3mo but I'm thinking it's to late for that. Is that right or could I still do that?

Otherwise, if i buy does, how many would the minimum number for each buck? I'd like to run them out as 2 herds and figured I can put the doelings in with the buck who isn't their sire next season. 

I'd prefer they were weathers because since I bought them I found out I have cows milk intolerance and I would rather have a pure bred Nubian buck to breed to the grade does I can get for better milking offspring. 

I would love some advice from more experienced people.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 29, 2011)

you can pay a vet to whether them.  I have never banded them that late, not sure what the suggestions of that would be, but a vet can cut them to castrate them, which would be less stressful for them than banding them at this point.   They should be vaccinated twice before banding with cD&T.

As far as how many girls, technically all they would need is one each, but you will need to have the fields/pens seperated or some mighty tough fencing between them, or they will fight with the fence in between them and tear it up, it wont really fix the problem that when they are done breeding and the mom's get close to kidding, you will need to take them out, because they will possiblyl chase the mom around right before kidding, and after she kids they can breed her back anytime she comes back in heat. Maybe this is different with seasonal breeders, but not nubians and boers. They will breed back possibly with in the first month after kidding. Some meat producers just leave the bucks run with the does all the time, but then you have to for sure wean the doeling by about 10 weeks, so dad doesn't breed them back and breed them way too young, resulting in you needing a 3rd pen area.  

But these will be things you need to think about even if you have all dairy goats.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 29, 2011)

Oh, and


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## carolinagirl (Jun 29, 2011)

If you can band a calf, I'd think you could band them just fine, but probably not with a goat bander.  I banded a mature pigmy once.  It was really tough getting both testicals through the band (goat sized) , but it did work just fine.  Doing it with a Burdizzo would probably be better though since it's bloodless


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## RareBreedFancier (Jun 29, 2011)

Thank you for the replies and the welcome. 

I do already have 5 paddocks fenced but only have electric wires running on the boundary as my ponies don't climb over them. I need to run hot wires on the others. 

The breeder where my boys came from just runs the bucks with them year round. I'm pretty sure he doesn't remove the doelings that young either... :/

What is cD&T? Guessing the T is tetanus? They have had no vaccs. They hadn't been wormed either so I did that as soon as I got them home. I asked the vet about vaccs and was told they are a waste of money. :/ I would still like to get them vacc'ed. I figured I'd need the vet out to castrate them but DH says 'No way! Just shoot them or get them some girls!' Would one doe each really be ok? They wouldn't suffer from an excessive amount of attention? I'd figured I'd need at least 3 or 4 each. DH will be happy if I don't need so many.  I would plan on retaining all of the doelings to bulk up the doe herd numbers.

Is my younger boy being unusually nasty? I've read of plenty of bucks living in pairs or as bachelor herds even with does on the property but he goes out of his way to get to the older one and beat him up.  If I did castrate him now would he stop the charming bucky behavior like urine spraying? He was quite a snuggler before he started that but I'd rather not have him that close now. 

Banders come in goat sized? Only seen the ones for cattle. Never seen a Burdizzo apart from online but I should be able to borrow a bander. So your pigmy was ok? That's good to know.  

Also, copper. I've been reading lots about it in threads here. I haven't been able to find any lose goat minerals here. I usually get blank looks. The boys are very interested in my lose horse minerals which they've been eating and also the stock salt and mineral lick. I have copper powder here from when I was mixing a custom mix for the ponies so I could make it available to the goats if I know how much they need.

There is so much to learn and I want to take better care of them than the 'Just toss 'em out in the paddock and ignore them' advice I have been given. Even done my own hoof trims already.


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## jodief100 (Jun 29, 2011)

You can get CD&T vaccine for goats at most farm stores and do it yourself.  At about $7 for 10 doses I say it is well worth the investment.  If yours doesn't carry it, you can order online.  

I don't like to band that late but if you can still get the nuggets in the bander it should be fine.  DO NOT do it until you get them vaccinated.  That will make them susceptable to tetnus.  I have never used a Burdizzo so I can't help you there.  

The nasty behavior is normal.  He is establishing himself as head goat.   He will probably go back to being a nice goat after you wether him.  It will take some time.  

I would suggest reading here about care and wormers.  Wormer resisitance is a big probelm and using them too often, too little or the wrong kind can really hurt.  You will want to get familiar with how to tell when to worm and the proper kinds and doses.


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## Griffin's Ark (Jun 29, 2011)

As an interesting note, it is illegal to band or otherwise alter a buck after 3 months without a veterinarian in England.  It is considered inhumane.  I don't know why exactly, but to soon and you can mess up their already delicate urinary tract, and to late it is considered inhumane, it may be that it is painful to attempt the deed while banded and once the goat is at sexual maturity altering them will not change their wantonness, so to speak.  It should slow down their scenting habits though.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 29, 2011)

Meat prices are up, you could sell them and start over with the breeds you are really wanting. YOu could try offering them forsale as intact commercial meat goats, If they have nice frames on them you may get a couple hundred each for them , since they are already breeding age.  It is not always easy finding breeding age meat goats, since so many of them are sold younger for slaughter.  
If they are near 100lbs you may get 150 or so just for the meat.   Just thinking out loud..


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## RareBreedFancier (Jun 29, 2011)

Lots to think about there.

I personally would call the vet to do it but DH would have a fit. I imagine it's considered inhumane in England because it's got to hurt with the ring on and the parts are much larger as they get older. I should check the laws here. I really don't want to put a ring on them now but I don't want them to be bucks either. I'm mad at DH because he kept telling me 'next week' we'd get them done and well, you know how that worked out. 

I will try to find the vacc locally but I doubt I will unless it's also used for cattle, it's pretty much a cattle only area. I'll look online too, should find it there.

As for selling as meat or commercial bucks, that's a problem. They weren't tagged by their breeder and I don't have a registration number which I need to sell them for slaughter or to anyone else really. I basically have illegal goats. I'd need to get registered, buy tags and fill out a heap of paper work because the breeder didn't tag them. When I was researching goats I was looking at dairy breeds (I wanted Nubian weathers) which don't have to be tagged and usually wouldn't be so I believed the breeder when he said these didn't need tags. I also wasn't intending them to leave the property which I told him at the time. 

I know a bit about worm resistance, they were in dire need of worming. I've been rotating paddocks and moving them twice daily now they are tethered and stabled at night so I'm hoping to avoid the problems caused by keeping them permanently on one area. I'm sure I have lots more to learn and this forum is a wealth of information. 

I do want to keep them as pets but I also need to get the vet out to do blood tests because the herd they come from is untested. I don't want to spend big $$$ on a PB Nubian/s only to find out I have something nasty here. *Sigh* I'm wishing DH just let me buy the nice PB weathers from the certified herd instead of insisting I get the 'cheap' option. The cheap option is proving to be a lot more expensive!


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 30, 2011)

That is a good point that you bring up.  When people buy their animals, they need to be registered or have USDA tags for them. If you don't want them in their ears, then atleast put them in an envelope and keep them in your files for the future. you can always stick them in their ears right before reselling them.


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## Griffin's Ark (Jun 30, 2011)

RareBreedFancier said:
			
		

> As for selling as meat or commercial bucks, that's a problem. They weren't tagged by their breeder and I don't have a registration number which I need to sell them for slaughter or to anyone else really. I basically have illegal goats. I'd need to get registered, buy tags and fill out a heap of paper work because the breeder didn't tag them. When I was researching goats I was looking at dairy breeds (I wanted Nubian weathers) which don't have to be tagged and usually wouldn't be so I believed the breeder when he said these didn't need tags. I also wasn't intending them to leave the property which I told him at the time.


I assume that you are talking about a Scrapie tag (which is a federal requirement).  The only time a scrapie tag is required for anything is when they are sold at market.  Many markets will tag for you, some at a small charge, some for free.  Your requirement is to maintain a permanent record of where the goats originally came from, then you can put your tag on the goat.  Private sales from person to person is not tracked currently, but all goats (and sheep), meat, dairy or otherwise require a scrapie tag to be sold on the market.  The tags are free, as is the tool to put them on, so I don't quite understand why the original owner did not tag them.  You can also borrow tags from a friend if they are willing to record your goat. The main thing is that if you are concerned about spending money on goats that might not fit in with your planned herd, then it is best to find a way to sell them now, before you get to attached (and it will happen).  Had the National Animal Identification System been passed into law, you would have illegal goats as would lots of us all over the US.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 30, 2011)

I was thinking  it was different in different states.  Our scrappie tags were free.    

You can try to sell them privatly for breeding or slaughter.  If someone wants to butcher them it isn't really going to matter if they have a tag. 

You can call the local stockyards and ask them what their policy is about tagging animals, do they tag for you?  

I agree with Griffin, if you want another breed sell them and get what you really want.  Especially, since you want a clean dairy herd.


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## Goatherd (Jun 30, 2011)

For what it's worth, I just had my 15 month old buck surgically castrated.  I took him in to the vet's office even though she would have come here.  It was close and I figured since it was, should anything go wrong so to speak, they would have all the things necessary to help him.

She sedated him and the surgery took about 10 minutes.  He got a shot of Banimine for pain but no antibiotics.  I asked about that and she said that unless he would have an actual infection, it was pointless to give them to him.  I was there for the procedure and it was very simple.  She even offered to teach me how to do it should I want to do other bucks.  After seeing it, I do believe I could do it as long as I had the anesthetic.  Testicles were removed and no sutures to close.  Wound was left open for drainage and a few clots did seem to come out.
On the fifth day, he was back to his old self.  He wanted to go to the pasture with the girls and kids and has been fine ever since.


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## RareBreedFancier (Jun 30, 2011)

Oops! Sorry, I forgot I don't have my country posted under my name here (will fix that.)

Here in Australia we *do* have NLIS (National Livestock Identification Scheme) so I do have illegal goats. The breeder didn't tag them because he doesn't tag any of his goats. NLIS is working well... 

Dairy goats are exempt from tagging and those are what I'd been researching. 

I could try selling them through the more dubious channels but I bought them as pets and weed eaters. Around here the few goats I see generally are not well treated. That's why I'd rather weather them and keep them as weed eaters. And yes, already attached. They come running when I call them by name, walk on leads, know how to pick up their feet, stand still when told too, love to be brushed and know any treats the ponies are getting are worth investigating.  *I* don't mind spending money on pets but DH has problems with it. 

I'm just annoyed because if I'd got the Nubian weathers I wanted at the start I could have just gone back to the stud and bought breeding animals from the same clean herd. I could have even just bought a doe and taken her back to be bred but because I have the boys here I need to get the blood tests done to make sure they are clean because if I bring in an expensive doe and contaminate her I can't take her to get bred. It wasn't a problem when the goats were just pets but now I'm paying $5 for 2 pints of goat milk at the shop having does here I can milk makes soooooo much more sense.

Goatherd, nice to know it's so simple and fast. I suspect if I asked a cattle farming friend he'd do them that way without the anesthetic for me but that idea makes me cringe. I'll have to pop into the vet and ask what it would cost to do them and see what they say. My boys happily jump in my trailer so it wouldn't be hard to get them there and would save the call out fee.


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