# Horns or no horns



## BottleBabbiesrLife (Dec 29, 2017)

hey everyone I have 3 goats all with horns. I love horns. I'm doing a school assignment I want to see how many people like horns and how many don't like horns. I like horns  I don't like the thought of burning a bud off. Let me know your thoughts
Thank you

_Edited by staff_


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## Southern by choice (Dec 30, 2017)

Hello and welcome to BYH 

No horns. 
I once was very pro horn but time and experience has shown me otherwise.
I wrote an article on the subject- long overdue for an update... I guess I should get crackin' on that. 
We had horned, disbudded and polled goats. We still have a few polled goats.
But simply put, although it was a progression... this is what finally caused us to draw the line.
This doe took to sharpening her horns to the point where they were daggers and then proceeded over time to bully all other goats and her livestock guardian dogs... she was sweet with people but dangerous to others. I loved the goat, and I could not have her goring the other animals. It was a decision that ultimately saved her from our freezer. She was sedated, and they were surgically removed, weeks of healing and she lives in our herd to this day with no issues. 
When we have visitors to the farm and they ask about the disbudding, horned etc we physically bring out these horns- when they feel those points that is it- they clearly see why disbudding is necessary. 


 

and this- broken horn/scur- this goat was rushed to the ER and saved- she nearly bled to death


 


 

and my cracked ribs from rescuing goats out of trees, and having bruises, near misses on my eye, rescuing goats out of fencing, vines, seeing gored goats... the list goes on. Horns locking with other goats and near strangling... these are all things that you learn over time. Having dairy goats especially- nope- no horns!


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## Southern by choice (Dec 30, 2017)

BottleBabbiesrLife said:


> yah my goats never headbutt there very bonded



It isn't from headbutting. 
It looks like you have young goats... how old are they?


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## Southern by choice (Dec 30, 2017)

The pic you put up- she is cute. I would never have guessed he had so many crosses in her.


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## BottleBabbiesrLife (Dec 30, 2017)

thank you. she is adorable. she is bottle fed so super sweet


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## Southern by choice (Dec 30, 2017)

We love our bottle babies too! We have done it all... dam raised, co-parented (dam & bottle) and bottle babies.
We spend a lot of time with our goats so our dam raised goats are super sweet too.
My favorite thing about goats is how much they can act like dogs- following you everywhere, curious, want hugs and neck rubs... just love love love goats! 

Congratulations on getting your first goats. They are so much fun.


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## Bills Vs Beaks (Jan 3, 2018)

No horns. one of my goats has a scur from the breeder not disbudding properly, and just a few days ago she escaped (whole nother thing about goats entirely, dont get me started) and as I carried her back she suddenly jerked her head backwards and I got a scur in the nostril. Ow. Thankfully it came out the same way it went in and didnt go sideways and rip my nose in half....... stop laughing! its not funny! ..........My family laughed too 
And the time I was clipping hooves and I got a horn in the cheek (same goat too). Im definitely pro-no horns


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## Wispy55 (Jan 3, 2018)

I can easily see how dangerous horns can be. Have had my share of bruises and scratches but nothing convinced me more not to disbud than last winter. My Pygmy doe was near her delivery time and it was very cold. We had a birthing pen set up for her but she is one of those does that really likes to be outside. Unknown to us she had slipped outside to the outdoor stall and had given birth between checks. When I found her, one of her twins was dead and the other was near death. We immediately started warming the little fellow. When I went to take a look at mom, I didn't realized how cold she was at first. It wasn't until I felt her horns that I became aware of the fact she was suffering from hypothermia herself. She was attentive to her baby and was not shivering. She was past that point.My point is, without her horns to tell us she may have died. Nature gave the goats horns for heat regulation and in most cases it works well.


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## Bo Peep Soays (Jan 3, 2018)

I have British Soay sheep, not goats, but hey, I love the horns. Yes, I've been rammed, knocked down, had to free them from fences, etc. Soay ewes and rams both have horns, but occasionally can also be polled. Very similar to goats. I cant tell you how many people have asked me about my "goats" ...


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## Southern by choice (Jan 3, 2018)

Wispy55 said:


> I can easily see how dangerous horns can be. Have had my share of bruises and scratches but nothing convinced me more not to disbud than last winter. My Pygmy doe was near her delivery time and it was very cold. We had a birthing pen set up for her but she is one of those does that really likes to be outside. Unknown to us she had slipped outside to the outdoor stall and had given birth between checks. When I found her, one of her twins was dead and the other was near death. We immediately started warming the little fellow. When I went to take a look at mom, I didn't realized how cold she was at first. It wasn't until I felt her horns that I became aware of the fact she was suffering from hypothermia herself. She was attentive to her baby and was not shivering. She was past that point.My point is, without her horns to tell us she may have died. Nature gave the goats horns for heat regulation and in most cases it works well.



Oh, so I guess polled goats wouldn't stand a chance because there is no other way to tell if a goat is cold. Come on.




Bo Peep Soays said:


> I have British Soay sheep, not goats, but hey, I love the horns. Yes, I've been rammed, knocked down, had to free them from fences, etc. Soay ewes and rams both have horns, but occasionally can also be polled. Very similar to goats. I cant tell you how many people have asked me about my "goats" ...View attachment 41857 View attachment 41857 View attachment 41858



We leave horns on the Kikos- they are beautiful.  BUT a pitb!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 3, 2018)

Bills Vs Beaks said:


> No horns. one of my goats has a scur from the breeder not disbudding properly, and just a few days ago she escaped (whole nother thing about goats entirely, dont get me started) and as I carried her back she suddenly jerked her head backwards and I got a scur in the nostril. Ow. Thankfully it came out the same way it went in and didnt go sideways and rip my nose in half....... stop laughing! its not funny! ..........My family laughed too
> And the time I was clipping hooves and I got a horn in the cheek (same goat too). Im definitely pro-no horns


Thank goodness it wasn't your eye! Horns hurt! Never funny to people that have experienced it.


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## Chirpy (Jan 3, 2018)

Absolutely no horns for me.  I love the look of horns and I realize that goats were put on this earth with horns.  But, I've seen and heard of too many terrible injuries to both humans and other animals due to a goats horns.  My goats are sweet, gentle and love being around us (they will sit in our lap if we let them).  I have children and grandchildren and friends children come to interact with my goats.  But, even the nicest goat can jerk their head around to see something (or if they are startled) and hit a person (most dangerous for a child since they are head level with the goats horns and they get hit in the eye or face and do serious damage).  I lean over to pet, groom or pick things up off the ground next to my goats.  If they swing their head around I could be hit.  

Goats obviously head butt each other and other animals... a goat with horns can seriously injure another goat or animal especially if they slam that animal up against a fence or wall and hit them in the chest/stomach (yup, I've seen it many times over the years when they are vying for herd order).  

I've had friends find their goats tangled in a fence or tree... dead (usually a broken neck from struggling) or seriously injured because their horns got entangled and they couldn't get out.

I do realize that horns are the goats only real protection from predators but hopefully people keep their goats in secure fenced areas and locked up at night and/or have livestock guardian dogs/animals to help protect them.  Depending on where someone lives, like in cougar, coyote or bear country like we do, a good fence can keep your goats safe from most all predators.

So, I see the beauty of the horns but all our goats are disbudded because too many people and animals have been hurt by those horns.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 3, 2018)

Wispy55 said:


> I can easily see how dangerous horns can be. Have had my share of bruises and scratches but nothing convinced me more not to disbud than last winter. My Pygmy doe was near her delivery time and it was very cold. We had a birthing pen set up for her but she is one of those does that really likes to be outside. Unknown to us she had slipped outside to the outdoor stall and had given birth between checks. When I found her, one of her twins was dead and the other was near death. We immediately started warming the little fellow. When I went to take a look at mom, I didn't realized how cold she was at first. It wasn't until I felt her horns that I became aware of the fact she was suffering from hypothermia herself. She was attentive to her baby and was not shivering. She was past that point.My point is, without her horns to tell us she may have died. Nature gave the goats horns for heat regulation and in most cases it works well.


Did you ever check her temperature? What was it?


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 3, 2018)

Chirpy said:


> Absolutely no horns for me.  I love the look of horns and I realize that goats were put on this earth with horns.  But, I've seen and heard of too many terrible injuries to both humans and other animals due to a goats horns.  My goats are sweet, gentle and love being around us (they will sit in our lap if we let them).  I have children and grandchildren and friends children come to interact with my goats.  But, even the nicest goat can jerk their head around to see something (or if they are startled) and hit a person (most dangerous for a child since they are head level with the goats horns and they get hit in the eye or face and do serious damage).  I lean over to pet, groom or pick things up off the ground next to my goats.  If they swing their head around I could be hit.
> 
> Goats obviously head butt each other and other animals... a goat with horns can seriously injure another goat or animal especially if they slam that animal up against a fence or wall and hit them in the chest/stomach (yup, I've seen it many times over the years when they are vying for herd order).
> 
> ...


Well said!


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## alsea1 (Jan 3, 2018)

I have all types.  My buck is a Spanish goat with horns that go out to the side.  I have never seen him use them on his herd mates or me.  He does not appreciate me trying to use them as handles so I don't. I have an older doe that has one horn that is not much of horn.  She also does not use them as weaponry.  Her daughter has two nice horns that are a bit pointy and so does her sister.  Neither have done any damage to herd mates or me.  I also have a Saanan doe that was dis-budded successfully.  She appears to get along with the others without issues. Then there is the little niggy buck who was dis-budded.  He gets on with all the others as well without mishap.
I have had to get the horned ones out of fencing.  Luckily no harm was done to goat or fence.  I made changes when possible to prevent it happening again.  It does limit the type of feeders you can build as you have to accommodate horns.  All in all I don't mind horns.


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## Bunnylady (Jan 3, 2018)

I'd definitely prefer no horns. Of the half-dozen goats I've had, the ones with horns were by far the most destructive (standing butting the fence posts and the barn walls just for the fun of it). I had to take the collars off the dehorned goats because a horned wether learned to slip his horn into the collars, and came frighteningly close to strangling one to death. He also liked to dip his head down and snag forelegs with those horns; it's a wonder nobody ever got a broken leg from that little trick. Even on goats who weren't bullies, horns have been a worry; one of my does wound up breaking both of her horns off at about 3" long when she was older (one at a time, not both at the same time). She wasn't quite as bad as SBC's goat, but she was a gory mess both times it happened.


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## JesseroDo (Jan 3, 2018)

I have experience with both and I prefer horns on all animals (with 20+ years experience under my belt... goats, sheep, cows, elk, deer, exotics, etc), unless you are a dairy and need clean heads that will fit thru equipment easier and have hundreds/thousands to deal with. Any animal can have an accident, its not a good reason, imho, to remove body parts. If theyre pets and you have a hobby farm with only a few animals, most 'accidents' come from poor management and laziness on the part of the owner. Id rather work harder to keep my animals healthy and happy than remove pieces of them and have an easier time. Also, you cant stop 100% accidents, illnesses and fights, no matter what you do. Sh*t happens and your animals cant live in bubbles. Farming will always include a bit of blood and gore. Its just part of the territory. If you cant handle that and the immense time and labor it takes... dont keep animals.


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## goatgurl (Jan 3, 2018)

I have to vote no on horns.  l have had goats with or without horns for over 40 years and have seen goats do horrible injury to themselves and others over the years.  have had a goat put a horn thru the web of my hand between my thumb and forefinger.  did it mean to hurt me, no it was just playing but that didn't keep me from getting hurt, and trust me it did hurt.  there is just to much danger to keep horned goats especially around children.  not worth the risk imo.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 3, 2018)

JesseroDo said:


> hobby farm with only a few animals


yes, and most have young small children, even when supervised it takes just a second for an eye to be taken out when a goat startles...



JesseroDo said:


> most 'accidents' come from poor management and laziness on the part of the owner.


That's the biggest line of bulls*** I have heard yet.  



JesseroDo said:


> Also, you cant stop 100% accidents, illnesses and fights, no matter what you do.


No, but I value you my animals, obviously more than you do, I therefore will do what I can to decrease accidents, and unnecessary death due to horns being ripped torn, or an animal goring another. 



JesseroDo said:


> If you cant handle that and the immense time and labor it takes... dont keep animals.


  Interesting how many veterinarians advise to remove horns. 

But if you like em keep em. 
I have both, my dairy goats are either polled or disbudded. My kikos horned. They are a big PITB always getting stuck in trees.
My animals are far to valuable to me torisk their lives over horns.


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## frustratedearthmother (Jan 3, 2018)

Horns were totally acceptable when goats roamed the world eons before civilization...eh... too much?   However, domestication brings certain limitations.

Let me start over since I just read your last post.   I think I saw where you haven't had goats for a very long time so you haven't had all the experiences that a lot of folks have had.  Ya know what - if you have hundreds of acres for goats to run free with no chance of injuring anyone - go for it!
You say most goats won't hurt you on purpose - but some do.  Is it okay for that animal to have an unfair advantage.  Maybe to even the playing field a person should go into a horned goats enclosure with a baseball bat to defend themselves?
Why would you think it's okay to tell someone who shows goats to show another animal?
AND,you'd put horned goats into a field with no trees for shade?  Sounds a little bit like abuse to me.

Gotta agree with the folks above.


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## Sumi (Jan 4, 2018)

Thank you for your participation, everyone. I think we're done here now.


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