# Pack Goats



## Jake (Jan 7, 2014)

Someone had a post asking about pack goats.

There is a very active pack goat group, most active in the NW but members all across the country with a very good monthly newsletter.

Just google Goat Tracks and that will give you the link to the newsletter. There also several good books for those new to Pack Goats.

Goats are great animals for back packers who want to carry more.

Jake Levi
Mikado, MI

Good luck,


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## kinder (Jan 21, 2014)

Hi Jake  Ya that was me in the hobby section. I would like to train my goats for being handled and mobile. Packing is healthy for them. Especially when they are confined to a smaller area, like my 1 acre. My urban Kinder ! lol..Thanks Jake....Do you goat pack ?


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## Jake (Jan 26, 2014)

Too long in replying, but......

My main interest is packing, although  health issues curtailed it, I am now starting over, from sctach, but, in one way it will work as I can now focus on what I really want to do, breeding pack goats.

There is an excellent pack goat monthly put out by my friend Larry Robinson in ID, Larry packs and has several very well trained packers.

I have visited him and he and his wife are avid packers, Larry is in a great state for extended and weekend pack trips. But you have some great places to hike also, plus over the border into NY and the Adirondacks.

I will post the email later but you can google North American PackGoat Assn and get them.

My goal right now is to find some good grade Boer or Kiko doelings to breed to a Kiko buckling. I am hoping to find some here in MI but will drive to nearby states, or, pay shipping on some kids.  I'd love to find 3 nice doelings and a good Kiko buck.

There are several makers of pack goat harnesses and packs, some very nice equipment.  Two pack goats can carry all anyone needs for a nice extended weekends camping trip. 3 good mature pack goats can carry what a pack horse can. And go places the horse wont, or shouldnt.

I'll try not to be so slow next time .


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## kinder (Jan 26, 2014)

I sure hear that!! I'm going to travel to Pa. to pick up my Kinders. Because Pa. is the closes breeder I'm getting 2 bucks and 3 does, actually they all will be babies except for a year old buck. So I think I will have a good chance to train. I had thought I would start with a lead of some sort to get them use to being walked around 1 at a time, then attach them some how behind each other by 2zys at a time and so on, then get them use to the packs, then add weight. But I'm wondering if the packs should come sooner ?? I would like to get some 4-H ers involved, it would be great because there is nothing like it around. I have not done any extensive researching yet, because I've been really busy lately, but it is in my next phase of research. In addition to the goats I am getting into Wyandotte chickens, and I'm still working on famillarizing myself with the different medications, and their usages. Hey Jake!! Do you think Kinders would be good for packing ? I should have asked you that be for. By the way I'm Mary,. Till next time, take care....


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## Jake (Jan 29, 2014)

Hi Mary

What breed of goats are you getting? Hard to believe there arnt goats closer, I know there are many in NYS.

Very few trail pack goats on purpose, they do best if they can sort out their own trail order, so folks pick who the leader is, and halter him and teach him to trail that way, the rest will take up place behind him. Once he knows the routine then just walk on ahead of him and they will trail out, in a goat fashion, there will be some swapping etc but once you get into hills etc they will have their own order sorted out.

Goats shouldnt have to carry weight until the  their 2nd year, and then not a full load.  Little guys can learn to wear a pack, empty, from the beginning. Its great training to learn to maneuver through and around brush. They will need some help like all youngsters.  After they are 6-8 mos old They could carry a water bottle etc, theirs. And then one for you. Also treats/snacks etc. But not a full camping load until they are preferably 3 yr olds. This is conservative. If they carry too much weight early on it can put too much strain on their lower legs and spines. Let them get some growth on first, but get them out onto lots of trails, just for fun.

The Pack Goat Forum has a lot of good training info, and some real actual pros and a lot of dedicated hikers. A good group. You can pick up a LOT of info there in a very short time.

I hope to see more interest here also. Its a fun hobby and past time.

Jake


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## kinder (Jan 29, 2014)

Kinder Goats....there is a breeders association that I soon will be a part of. They are a great all in one goat, and very hard to find. That's why I will travel for them. I looked into that sight, and I love it. Lots of info....And I browsed at the supplies, a little pricey for me, but that's because its good quality. That's ok!!! I have my ways of getting what I want. .LOL......Mary


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## Jake (Jan 30, 2014)

I have no experience with the Kinder goat breed, havent seen a live one yet. When you said Kinder before I thought that you were referring to kids, I know people who refer to their kid goats as kinder. 

For my purposes I want a big, tall and long bodied goat, to carry a pack. A rule of thumb is a load of 25%  of their body weight, so on a youngster whose joints havent matured even a 10lb load is getting up there fast.

This is why I am planning on  Kiko/Boer cross. Both breeds were developed to range out for their living, and both have fast growth rates.  Two other breeds that make good pack goats are the Alpine and Saanens.  I have seen some very nice Obers too. But whatever breed that the owner will spend time with and train them will do well. I dont know how the minis and dwarf breeds would do but for sure they'd enjoy the hiking.


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## Jake (Jan 30, 2014)

Jake said:


> I have no experience with the Kinder goat breed, havent seen a live one yet. When you said Kinder before I thought that you were referring to kids, I know people who refer to their kid goats as kinder.
> 
> For my purposes I want a big, tall and long bodied goat, to carry a pack. A rule of thumb is a load of 25%  of their body weight, so on a youngster whose joints havent matured even a 10lb load is getting up there fast.
> 
> This is why I am planning on  Kiko/Boer cross. Both breeds were developed to range out for their living, and both have fast growth rates.  Two other breeds that make good pack goats are the Alpine and Saanens.  I have seen some very nice Obers too. But whatever breed that the owner will spend time with and train them will do well. I dont know how the minis and dwarf breeds would do but for sure they'd enjoy the hiking.


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## Jake (Jan 30, 2014)

Hi Mary
I got your post on PM email, ref Kinders, I am going to look them up, I am curious now.  Pa isnt a real hard drive for me if its on the western half, I have family in upstate NY I can visit, and swing through Pa coming home. Cleveland is about an 8 hr drive for me. My goal this year is to get 2-3 does, all to breed to Kiko.


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## kinder (Jan 30, 2014)

Ya ...But look them up at the breeders association. You'll get more there.Also Kinder goats .org has some interesting things too.


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## Jake (Jan 30, 2014)

kinder said:


> Ya ...But look them up at the breeders association. You'll get more there.Also Kinder goats .org has some interesting things too.


 I will check that out.

The link to the Pack Goat Central Assoc list is:

http://www.packgoatcentral.com/forums/index.php

This is a reincarnation of the original forum, where the old hands of goat packing swap info, check it out you'll like it even though they are mostly on the other side of the country from us. Folks with the good packs, harnesses etc are there too, check out Rex's, he has the best in my opinion but there are some very good other ones too.


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## cwrabs (Feb 18, 2014)

thanks for the info....We're starting training our Boer/Nubian cross wether. Very interested in learning more about how everything is done.


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## lungewhipqueen (Feb 22, 2014)

Happy to see a thread about pack goats here. I had six kids over the last month and one of them has really caught my eye as a potential packer! Packing is not something I have ANY experience with or prior knowledge of but I've been reading everything I can find on the subject. I really think this buckling has potential and I want to learn as much as I can before he gets too old for training. I don't want him to miss the boat!

His momma is my Nubian/Alpine dairy doe (who takes strongly after the Alpine) and daddy is a Boer/Savanna buck. This buckling is 16 days old today and is outgrowing the 50/50 Boer/Savanna kids that are about 2 weeks older than him. He's long bodied and sturdy, extremely curious and he regularly comes looking to be handled. It doesn't hurt that he's pretty too! Savannas are still relatively rare in the US so I never see the breed mentioned in literature... even regarding meat goats. But they are extremely hardy, low maintenance goats. I think they could offer a lot to pack goat breeding.

While I'm trying to learn about pack goat training, I spend my time with this buckling just petting and touching and seeing what he'll tolerate. So far... there's nothing he shies from. I can touch him absolutely anywhere, pick up his feet and hold his legs, pick him up off the ground, etc. He still comes looking for more every time I'm in the goat pen. I'll put a collar on him before too long. It's about time to start separating him from momma through the night so I can start milking her, so that will give me more opportunities to handle him. Leading and tying with the collar will come in short order. He's already disbudded and will be wethered in a few weeks.

Is there much demand for trained pack goats or young up and comers? I don't plan to raise goats for that intent, but when I come across kids with personalities like this guy, is it worth my while to give them the extra time and attention and try to sell them as future packers? Or would I do just as well to sell them as pets or for meat?


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## kinder (Feb 23, 2014)

It's great to see others that are interested in Pack Goats.. We are all just getting started. But that's a good thing. We could use this sight to teach and learn from each other. Babies are a good start, But not always necessary. My friend Jake says the young shouldn't carry any thing much until they are , 3yr.o. Unless you are keeping them Lungewhip. Chances are the new owner will do most of the work. But the handling of them at a young age is a good start. As far as , pets / meat / pack goat, that's between your self and the buyer. I sure hope this helped some.!?


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## lungewhipqueen (Feb 24, 2014)

I guess my question of whether it'd be worth my while pertains more to price. Do pack goats command a higher price than a meat goat where you're selling by the pound... or a pet, which is only worth what someone is willing to pay? I mean... let's say I sell him for meat at $200... but someone wanting a pet probably isn't going to spend that... they're looking for a price of somewhere between $50-$100. All things being equal... if this goat was trained to pack and was reliable, what sort of price could I reasonably expect someone to pay for him?


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## kinder (Feb 24, 2014)

To be honest lungewhip I realy don't know. I do know that breeding quality,registerd goats in some states go for 200./250./300. And a weathered/companion/pet goat any where's form 50./75/100. IMO. a 3yr.o. reliable,healthy, well trained Pack Goat. should be worth at least.!?? 300/350. Now that's kinder prices. And though Vermonts goat prices are higher. That's what I'm going with. My advice would be to find out what the going rates are.Alot will depend on the breed,going rates and you need to be sure that you'll have a market for pack goats, Look at it this way,,I paid 800. for my last german shepherd. I would look into pack goat territory and see whats up there. People will pay for what they want.


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## lungewhipqueen (Feb 26, 2014)

Well... I've about decided that if someone wants him, they'll have to make it worth my while. His two half sisters are priced at $225 because of their breeding. He's at least half that with the breeding, but he's growing bigger, faster. So even as a meat goat he's worth something. I wouldn't expect MORE for him as "pack goat potential".


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## kinder (Feb 26, 2014)

Oh absolutely ! Do you have a group of farmers, who do meat swapping ?  I would like too start up something like that around here. What I'm doing is recruiting  in the interest  of the Pack Goats.. The local comity of recreations Dept. and a local collage. and even a land owner. ( I live in a small City.) If I can get them interested , the rest is all down hill. Then people can train there goats, keep and rent or sell them as a specialty animal.


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## kinder (Feb 26, 2014)

It just has to start some wheres !!


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## lungewhipqueen (Feb 28, 2014)

If anyone is swapping meat around here, I haven't heard about it. But that's an interesting idea. I do have a few folks I trade services with though. My sister has dairy goats and she and I help each other out with things like disbudding, castrating, tattooing, kid watch, etc. Another neighbor has livestock and she and I help each other out... fixing fence, rounding up cattle, trading chickens, milk/egss, vegetables... that sort of thing. And I have a friend in town who produces much of her own food in her back yard via her garden, laying hens and rabbits. I raise heritage breed chickens for her to butcher and she pays for their feed as well as the feed for my parent stock! Works out well for all of us.


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## kinder (Feb 28, 2014)

Ya. that's cool if you can get a bunch of people to swap goods and talents. Where I live I cant have any swine,and if some one wanted goat ,dairy, and so on. Pork would be nice once in a while.


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