# Puppy chasing the goats



## cwoods (Mar 16, 2015)

So our sweet, 11 week old Great Pyrenees puppy has been chasing the goats.  She doesn't try to hurt them and is trying to play but I feel like this isn't a behavior she should be allowed to do.  Any suggestions on how to get her to stop?  We stop her every time we see it happening but she's very stubborn and seems to just keep going.  Any thoughts?


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## Southern by choice (Mar 16, 2015)

You are correct. This is not acceptable behavior. As a pup they get bored and lonely as they are pack animals (I like 2 dogs better for the dog and livestock) and the play may be normal puppy behavior but cannot happen with the livestock or it will continue.

Before I get to the hows, can you tell me everything you are doing to correct. Also what does she do exactly?
Also please tell me exactly what the goats do. Does she chase and play when they run, are they running because they don't know what she is, are they afraid of her, is she using her paw on the goats, what about teeth? ... all things you can tell me the easier it is to narrow down some things you can do.


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## cwoods (Mar 25, 2015)

We lay her down on her back and tell her no.  When we do this or give her a swat on the behind, she just gets up and starts again.  Very stubborn.   She usually starts after them when they are already running.  We've watched her from the house and doesn't seem to bother them when we're not around but seems to be showing of when we're with them and not giving her our full attention.  My husband just came in and said she grabbed a hold of one and tried to run with it.  She is outgrowing them quickly and I'm worried we're going to go down to a tragedy one day.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 25, 2015)

Correction needs to be swift. By laying down you could mean you go to her turn her and scold her or you could mean that you roll  her.
Swat on the behind is ineffective. 
As a puppy she is trying to play and chase. Kinda puppy behavior but as you already know, not what you want.

Do the goats always run from her or do you have any that will butt her and put her in her place? Are these goat kids or mature goats? Horned or not? 

Is she with them 24/7 or does she have a pen for when she is unsupervised? At this point she needs supervision.
Is there times a day when she is doing this?
Normally a pup this age has their burst of energy several times a day. Early morning and late evening when it is cool. 
Other things need to occupy those times. Such as basic obedience outside pen, family time etc.

A pup is a pup is a pup. 

A lunge lead is best. I prefer a 30 ft lead on young pups. They can run and play but once they go into chase you pull hard on that lead so they are completely knocked off balance. Obviously you are not trying to break their neck but pulling enough so they do go off balance, trip up, stumble, fall over you get the point. 
You will need a term of correction. Do not use the word NO for everything. No being used over and over brings confusion.

Lunge leads are nothing more than training leads found in the equine section. Do not use rope or leather but a lightweight cotton.

Any dog that is already big strong and powerful needs a shorter lead. 10-15 ft as the 30 ft with only drag you face first in the mud.
You will not really give the full 30 ft but it allows you better control keeping  so many feet in your hand and loose giving her room to freely move.
You can even drop the lead and let her go but once she starts that chasing step on lead or pull it. 

*NEVER leave lead on dog when you are not physically training her.* 

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/weaver-leather-flat-cotton-lunge-line-1-in-x-30-ft-with-snap

I have a few pics of this lead on one of our dogs as a pup.
I will see if I can find it.


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## cwoods (Mar 25, 2015)

They are kids, no horns.  They do run from her but only if she is chasing them.  They will lay down beside her and sleep, so they're not always afraid of her.  Currently, they are all together but it's looking like we'll need to separate them.  I am calling about some basic obedience training for her and me tomorrow.  She has some other puppy behaviors like jumping up on us that I want get stopped pretty quickly.  She's such a sweet girl, just has some bad puppy behaviors.


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## cwoods (Mar 28, 2015)

We found a puppy class and started this week.  I feel pretty good about it.  The instructor has 2 Pyrenees of her own and seems very knowledgable about dogs in general.   She is going to work with us and Harper on her behaviors.  Thank you for your advice.


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## cwoods (Mar 28, 2015)

We found a puppy class and started this week.  I feel pretty good about it.  The instructor has 2 Pyrenees of her own and seems very knowledgable about dogs in general.   She is going to work with us and Harper on her behaviors.  Thank you for your advice.


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## BlessedWithGoats (May 2, 2015)

How are things going with your pup and the goats @cwoods?
I have a question along the same lines, I hope you don't mind me borrowing your thread? 
My great pyr who's almost one and a half is currently not with the goats full time. Lately I have been tying him out with the goats, and he has been in with them, with me, before. When I did leave him with them, he would occasionally chase them, but like cwoods said, it's pretty much if they're already running. Once I saw him put his paw on one of their backs. My goats are horned, all at least around a year old (some are about two years). Latte will kind of push back if she needs to... I was spraying water at him, because he didn't like that, when he would growl because they threatened his food. I'm not sure what is the best method for me to use to get him trustworthy with the goats? Do I start out by continuing to tie him near the goats when they're tied out grazing? I know puppies are supposed to be trained when they're way younger... but I do believe there's hope for him! Any advice you have would be appreciated! Thank you so much! (And thanks, cwoods, for letting me borrow your thread!)


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## cwoods (May 2, 2015)

Puppy class is helping with her manners but Harper is still having trouble with playing too rough with them.  She has her own pen that is inside the pasture to keep her separated while we're at work.  We thought she was getting better and the goats aren't afraid of her but tonight we looked down to the pasture and she had one by the neck pushing him around.  She wasn't trying to hurt him, just playing.  She stopped when we yelled her name but we don't feel like we can trust her to be alone with them.  I know this probably doesn't help you much.  I would love some more advice as well.  I feel the same as you do.


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## Southern by choice (May 3, 2015)

Are you using the lunge lead and giving firm correction?


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## Ridgetop (May 3, 2015)

When our first guardian dog was ranging too wide, I wanted to keep him with the animals.  One of the suggestions was to tie him to a drag log.  I used a 5' piece of 4x6 with a ring bolt through it.  He couldn't run fast dragging it behind.  One problem was it tended to get caught in stuff and I would have to untangle him.  Eventually he stopped, but whether it was because of the drag log or not I can't be sure.  I don't think it would be useful on a full grown dog since they are so powerful and are smart enough to go back to the behavior when off it.  (My other dogs always recognized when they were doing obedience or breed ring work by the collar I used, so realizing you are not dragging a 20 lb timber behind would be easy. LOL)  I didn't like it much because of the danger to the dog and eventually stopped using it.

If you have a flat pasture and not too much brush, and are just trying to slow her down when she runs with the flock, it might work until she is older and learns guardian dog manners.  Don't leave her for a long time without checking on her since it could wrap around something and hurt her.  I never left him on it at night because if a predator attacked it interfered with his ability to defend himself and the animals.  Our dogs didn't try to play with the animals much because they got play time in with our other household dogs.  The best deterent to rough puppy play is not to put them in with kids, only older does or bucks who won't tolerate that behavior.  Unfortunately sometimes it is not possible to have separate enclosures.


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## BlessedWithGoats (May 4, 2015)

cwoods said:


> Puppy class is helping with her manners but Harper is still having trouble with playing too rough with them.  She has her own pen that is inside the pasture to keep her separated while we're at work.  We thought she was getting better and the goats aren't afraid of her but tonight we looked down to the pasture and she had one by the neck pushing him around.  She wasn't trying to hurt him, just playing.  She stopped when we yelled her name but we don't feel like we can trust her to be alone with them.  I know this probably doesn't help you much.  I would love some more advice as well.  I feel the same as you do.


 Glad things are going better, and hope they continue to improve!  Thanks for your reply!  I'm not confident in leaving my dog in with the goats either. :T
I've had him tied out near the goats when they're grazing... he's good with that, but if I had him running loose with them... I don't know. He's still got some puppy playfulness in him, even though he is maturing.


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