# How long in kidding stall?



## Mamaboid (Dec 15, 2011)

Ohhhh I just figured out what my dh IS getting me for Christmas.  I had made contact with a lady last week that had 2 fainters for sale.  That was all I knew.  Today I learned the following.

Buck, 3 yr old, horned,all white, faints easily, has successfully bred in past and is the expectant father of probably triplets. 

Doe, 3 year old, disbudded,black and white like a cow, faints but not quite so easily, bred and expecting probably triplets in late January.  

Family pets,we must promise her they will not be butchered....no problem.  

She has to get rid of them for health reasons (hers, not the goats).  and.... are you ready for this???

$250.00.  No papers, but I don't care about that, as long as they faint they have to be "Fainters".

I am going to see them on Saturday.  I am so excited I cannot wait..


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## marlowmanor (Dec 15, 2011)

Congratulations!   I was just telling DH I would like some fainters when we get more space.


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## Mamaboid (Dec 15, 2011)

marlowmanor said:
			
		

> Congratulations!   I was just telling DH I would like some fainters when we get more space.


I love them.. They are so easy to fence, and so gentle.  And they come in all kinds of colors, sizes, hair lengths and oooohhh I get so  excited about em.   My husband thinks I am loosing it.  Right now we have 3 mixed does and our Fainter Buck, Dude.  He is my baby.  Even in full rut he is a gentleman to both the girls and people.  I eventually would like to maintain a herd of about 10, mostly made up of fainters and fainter crosses both for pets and meat.  These two would give me two more totally unrelated fainter blood lines to work with.  The possibilities make me


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## SmallFarmGirl (Dec 15, 2011)

CONGRATS !!


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## peachick (Dec 15, 2011)

I have some young fa inters available too.  A few boys,  a few girls....  all born feb-april 2011
Im in Maryland...  so driving distance from you.
Send me a PM  if you want more info.

edited to add that the ones available  will have a medium length coat as adults.  most are black and white,  one girls is  white with some black,  one adorable boy is brown and white.


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## elevan (Dec 15, 2011)

Congratulations!


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## Mamaboid (Dec 17, 2011)

MERRY CHRISTMAS to me.  Went and got my two new fainters this morning.  Snapped a couple pics with cell phone as we were settling them in, not great pics but you can get the idea.

This is Elsie, 3 yr old Doe, pregnant, due January??? When do you think??  She has started to fill her udder but it is still very small, not much bigger than my fist.

















This is Eli, 3 yr old Buck. This has to be the most laid-back buck in rut I have ever seen.


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## peachick (Dec 17, 2011)

congratulations on your new additions.
Did the previous owner say they were pure myotonics/fainting goats or mixed?


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## Queen Mum (Dec 17, 2011)

Lovely...


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 17, 2011)

congrats. Very nice


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 17, 2011)

Very cute! Thanks for the pics, can't wait for more.


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## Mamaboid (Dec 17, 2011)

peachick said:
			
		

> congratulations on your new additions.
> Did the previous owner say they were pure myotonics/fainting goats or mixed?


Pure..and the big boy fainted when my dh lifted him in the car,
 when we took him out of the car, 
when we put him in the shelter for the night.  

 She doesn't faint as easily but does faint. She stiffened up when we put her in car but didn't go all the way out.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 17, 2011)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

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Why do they faint when scared, won't that make it easier for the predator to get it? I am not wanting to offend anyone, I don't know much about this goat breed.


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## SheepGirl (Dec 17, 2011)

I think they do it to pretend like they're dead...kind of like a possom.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 17, 2011)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> I think they do it to pretend like they're dead...kind of like a possom.


I don't get the whole possum thing either.  If something is chasing me, I am not going to just throw myself down and make it easier.


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## Mamaboid (Dec 17, 2011)

fortheloveofgoats said:
			
		

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What makes them faint is the myotonic gene, which is actually a brain dysfunction.  It is triggered by the adrenalin in the "fight or flight" impulse.  As for making them more easy for the predators, they first came into population for use as "sacrificial goats" used by sheep and alpaca farmers in high predator areas.  They would put them in with the sheep and alpacas, and if anything attacked, the goats would faint and they would be eaten giving the "valuable" animals time to get away.  No offending done here, I love it that they always get questions because they are so interesting.  They were almost crossbred out of existence, and the Myotonic Goat Registry is working very hard to bring them back to the popularity they once had in Tennessee and Texas.  The more questions that are asked, the more interest in them as a breed.  Besides,  it makes it very easy to catch them when they fall over at your feet.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 17, 2011)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

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 Thank you for understanding me asking. Wow, that was neat to learn why they faint, what they were used for, and that they are coming back.  That's so very true about making it easier to catch them.


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## DKRabbitry (Dec 17, 2011)

Your new additions are absolutely gorgeous!!!

That is very interesting!  I had looked into the Myotonics previously, before going head over heals for LaManchas LOL  I would like to add a doe or two to my herd (probably next year) that will cross well with my dairy bucks and give me some kids with a little more meat on them than the PB lamanchas do.  Naturally I was leaning towards Boer, because that is the "norm" and they are generally available at an affordable price, but this could be another option.  Would Myotonics crossbred like that add significant meat to my offspring?  When you cross them to another breed, does the fainting get less?  I had also thought about Kikos, but they do not seem to be very common around here.  I see more ads for Fainters than the Kikos.


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## Ms. Research (Dec 18, 2011)

Congratulations to the new additions to your herd.

Wishing you all the luck with them.

K


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## Mamaboid (Dec 18, 2011)

DKRabbitry said:
			
		

> Your new additions are absolutely gorgeous!!!
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> That is very interesting!  I had looked into the Myotonics previously, before going head over heals for LaManchas LOL  I would like to add a doe or two to my herd (probably next year) that will cross well with my dairy bucks and give me some kids with a little more meat on them than the PB lamanchas do.  Naturally I was leaning towards Boer, because that is the "norm" and they are generally available at an affordable price, but this could be another option.  Would Myotonics crossbred like that add significant meat to my offspring?  When you cross them to another breed, does the fainting get less?  I had also thought about Kikos, but they do not seem to be very common around here.  I see more ads for Fainters than the Kikos.


I have never seen a crossbred fainter that faints, but I am not sure if they have to "full" or not. 

The following is an excerpt from one of my other posts about Fainters.  It answers your question about adding meat to offspring.

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ 
Myotonia, the inherited neuro-muscular condition which causes these goats to stiffen and sometimes fall over when startled, is the reason for the heavy muscling in fullblood Tennessee Meat Goats. The constant contraction and relaxation of these muscles as fullblood Tennessee Meat Goats grow results in very tender meat. The stiffness in no way results in tough meat, but rather just the opposite! These goats simply carry more muscle in relationship to their gross weight. Research done at Virginia State University reveals a meat-to-bone ratio of 4:1, significantly higher than other breeds. Dr. Lou Nuti of Prairie View A&M University's International Goat Research Center north of Houston, Texas, has completed research proving a 6% to 10% greater meat yield is achieved by using a Myotonic buck on other-breed does. This means less waste and more money in the producer's pocket.


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## peachick (Dec 18, 2011)

i have fainters and mini silky fainters
They dont faint or play possum.  They just get stiff and cant move....  The younger ones loose their balance and sometimes fall over.  As adults  its rare to see them fall .... but their hind legs sometimes get stiff when over excited, like at feeding time.

Some lines of mini silkies were crossed with long haired Nigerian dwarf goats.  I think the monotonic gene got watered down with that.  

On my website  I have a bit of info from a couple different fainting goat registries...

What is Myotonia?
Myotonia is the condition that causes Fainting goats to stiffen and/or fall over when startled. This condition is caused by a combination of recessive genes. Fainting goats can show varying degrees of myotonia. When startled some will fall to the ground with their entire bodies perfectly stiff and rigid. Others will only stiffen in their limbs and not fall to the ground. The condition lasts for ten to fifteen seconds after which time the animal will rise and walk off stiff, still showing a noticeable degree of stiffness in their back limbs. After a short time this stiffness will disappear and they will walk and act like any other goat. This condition only affects their external muscles so while in a myotonic state the animal is fully conscious and aware of its surroundings. In no way does this condition affect their life span and with proper care they will live just as long as any other breed of goat. 
From The International Fainting Goat Association 

STIFFNESS The stiffness of these goats relates to their myotonia congenita, which is an essential portion of the breed type. The various levels of stiffness are arbitrary, but a general guide is useful for breeders. 
1. Never observed to stiffen, but other type traits are consistent as is pedigree. 
2. Very rarely stiffens, never falls. 
3. Stiffens only occasionally, and rarely falls. 
4. Walks normally with no swivel. The rear limbs lock up readily, the forelimbs less so, and goats with this degree of stiffness rarely fall to the ground. 
5. Animal walks relatively normally, although somewhat stiff in rear and with a swivel at the hip. Readily stiffens when startled or stepping over a barrier. 
6. Animal always moves stiffly to some degree, and readily becomes "locked up" when startled or stepping over a low barrier. 

From Myotonic Goat Registry - Breed Description


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## Mamaboid (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks Peachick, I was hoping you would jump in.  I know you have a lot more experience with them than I do.  I think our new buck is one of those rare adults that doesn't know he was supposed to "faint" less as he grew.  He drops like a stone at the tiniest thing.  Not just stiffens up, falls over and stays there for 30 seconds or more.  I am hoping once he has been here a while and gets used to things being different he will be more relaxed and at least be able to go into his pen at night without falling over. On the scale of 1-6, he must be about an 8.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 18, 2011)

Oh my gosh.  Maybe my goat Houdini could use some myotonic genes in his gene pool.  His progeny could escape and then faint with surprise at their success!  By the way, your boy looks SO handsome!


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## Mamaboid (Dec 18, 2011)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> Oh my gosh.  Maybe my goat Houdini could use some myotonic genes in his gene pool.  His progeny could escape and then faint with surprise at their success!  By the way, your boy looks SO handsome!




Thank you very much.  I think he is gonna be gorgeous when he gets rid of the mud he is carrying around and we get the mats out of his hair.  I didn't want to start working on that right away as he is so prone to fainting right now, but it is going to get the best of me before long, I can tell.  He is already following me around just like my younger buck.  I am really looking forward to quarantine time being over so I can introduce them to each other and see how they react.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 18, 2011)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

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Wow, that's awesome. Too bad you didn't live closer, maybe I could have bought one from you?  Happy to hear you get another one!


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## peachick (Dec 19, 2011)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

> Thanks Peachick, I was hoping you would jump in.  I know you have a lot more experience with them than I do.  I think our new buck is one of those rare adults that doesn't know he was supposed to "faint" less as he grew.  He drops like a stone at the tiniest thing.  Not just stiffens up, falls over and stays there for 30 seconds or more.  I am hoping once he has been here a while and gets used to things being different he will be more relaxed and at least be able to go into his pen at night without falling over. On the scale of 1-6, he must be about an 8.


My first goat Buckley was like that.  He was a level 6 for sure...  I have his daughter "Sugar" who got it from him.  Poor baby falls over easy.  I'll post a fainting pic of her.  Buckley was a very smart goat  and sometimes too smart for his own good.  If he misbehaved,  all I had to do was stomp my foot at him and he'd fall over.  

Enjoy your new boy.  He will relax over the next 72 hours when his stress hormone level returns to normal.  He's just maxed out on stress hormones right now...  hence the over reacting....  Just move real slow around him and he will chill.

The reason I asked if your boy was a pure fainter is because his head shape is wider than my guys,  I wondered if he had some Nigerian in him maybe...  But if he faints that much,  he's pure  .  My male Chip is marked very similar to your boy,  here is his pic.





DSC_0038 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr




DSC_0003 by S!GNATURE, on Flickr


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## peachick (Dec 19, 2011)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> Oh my gosh.  Maybe my goat Houdini could use some myotonic genes in his gene pool.  His progeny could escape and then faint with surprise at their success!  By the way, your boy looks SO handsome!


This made me laugh  because  my little bottle baby Zoom did that over the weekend.  she had the zomies,  ran around,and then ran up the pen fencing,  she found her self landing on the outside of her pen, stiff on the ground....  I had to laugh  but  I usually dont like seeing them down like that.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 19, 2011)

BTW, Peachick,  Your explanation about Myotonia was AWESOME...


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## Mamaboid (Dec 19, 2011)

The do look alike. Handsome fellers aren't they.  I caught this on my cell phone this morning, as he made his grand exit from his pen.  I sure hope he gets used to that ramp.  I have no houses that are not up above ground level because they are all on skids in case of flooding, so he HAS to learn to go up them and down them.






The female in the pic is our new doe, Elsie.  She is pregnant with his babies, not sure when she is due.  She just stiffens in the back legs so far.. 

I don't like seeing them down either and I usually love on em and whisper to them til they get up.  The people that we got our first buck from had a daughter who thought it was funny to make their buck faint when she was a young girl.  The buck is now a 5 year old with HUGE horns, and he hates her.  He is great with anyone else, but he won't even allow her into his pen.  I don't want anything like that to happen to any of mine, so I try real hard not to scare them.  Eli has already after only two days started to come to me for lovins after he gets up.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 19, 2011)

Oh my gosh, I heard of them fainting, but I didn't know that they fainted over something new. Thanks for the pictures. So I remember you telling me that they are good for meat, when they do the fainting, doesn't that stress the muscle which then means the meat? Sorry if that's not a good question.


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## Mamaboid (Dec 19, 2011)

fortheloveofgoats said:
			
		

> Oh my gosh, I heard of them fainting, but I didn't know that they fainted over something new. Thanks for the pictures. So I remember you telling me that they are good for meat, when they do the fainting, doesn't that stress the muscle which then means the meat? Sorry if that's not a good question.


That is an excellent question.  The way I understand it from the articles I have read is that just the opposite happens.  The constant tensing and relaxing of the muscles makes the meat tenderer somehow.
the site below gives good info on the breed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/nov/05/fainting-goats-explained
 "The meat of fainting goats is tender and tasty. Folks who have tried myotonic goats as well as other types of goats tend to rank the myotonic at the top of meat quality. The meat is consistently praised for tenderness, which at first thought might seem at variance with the stiffness encountered while the goat is alive. It is important to realise that the stiffness in no way results in tough meat, but rather just the opposite."


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 19, 2011)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

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Wow, thank you. The more I talk to you, the more I am leaning towards fainters.


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## peachick (Dec 19, 2011)

The myotonia causes their muscles to contract... that causes their muscles to really bulk up and get "meaty"
They are solid muscle.  Read up on Tenesee faitners/ meat goats.


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## Mamaboid (Dec 19, 2011)

WEll, things are looking up.  Eli actually walked up the ramp into his hut tonight under his own steam and didn't fall over in the doorway.  The first step was a little hairy, he lifted his foot and froze for a second, but got through it without going down.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 19, 2011)

Good job Eli!


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## DKRabbitry (Dec 20, 2011)

Interesting connection that my mind made with the muscleing... HYPP (Impressive Disease or whatever you want to call it) in horses ultimately ends with the horses losing muscle control.  I don't want to get into the specifics behind it, but the original carrier (Impressive) and his offspring were just tearing up the showring in Halter classes in which they were looking for the really heavily muscled horses.  I read somewhere that part of the disease is little electrical-like currents run through the muscles which caused them to bulk up and be so popular.  That is a really basic way of explaining it, but it is much like with the myotonic goats.  Part of them stiffening causes the muscles to bulk.  

I LOVE to see photos of the goats fainting.  If I ever do decided to get a fainter, all I will have to do is show DH a photo and he will think it is so funny he is sure to say yes


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 20, 2011)

DKRabbitry said:
			
		

> Interesting connection that my mind made with the muscleing... HYPP (Impressive Disease or whatever you want to call it) in horses ultimately ends with the horses losing muscle control.  I don't want to get into the specifics behind it, but the original carrier (Impressive) and his offspring were just tearing up the showring in Halter classes in which they were looking for the really heavily muscled horses.  I read somewhere that part of the disease is little electrical-like currents run through the muscles which caused them to bulk up and be so popular.  That is a really basic way of explaining it, but it is much like with the myotonic goats.  Part of them stiffening causes the muscles to bulk.
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> I LOVE to see photos of the goats fainting.  If I ever do decided to get a fainter, all I will have to do is show DH a photo and he will think it is so funny he is sure to say yes


 That's how my hubby is.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 20, 2011)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

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So I found a local breeder of the fainting goat, and she said that she will never sell to anyone that wants to eat the goats, and good luck finding someone that will. I don't want to lie to the people. I tried to tell her we would want two females and they will never be eatin. They will be our pets/ momma goats. What would you suggest? Move on to a different breed?


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## Mamaboid (Dec 20, 2011)

Well, we are definitely making progress.  Eli managed to get out of his hut this morning and back into it tonight, and went all day without falling over.  His stress level from moving must be getting back to normal.  He is so funny, when I go in his area, he ambles over and waits to be rubbed and loved on...and then he leans on me.  Not in a pushing, heavy way, just like "I wanna be close".  I have only had him since Saturday morning, and I love this goat.  Course, I love em all best, depending on who I am lovin on at the minute.  Must be something in the water.


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## marlowmanor (Dec 20, 2011)

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If the breeder has quality goats at the price you want I'd go ahead and get them. Honestly what you do with the offspring is your business. Once she sells the goats to you what you do with them is your business. She doesn't have to know what you do with offspring, whether you sell them as pets or eat them. I understand her convictions, but really once you own them IMO you can do what you want with them.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 20, 2011)

Thank you, I thought the same thing. I can understand what she is saying, like you said, but when I am paying a lot of money for something, shouldn't I be able to with it what I want? It's not like I am going to be throwing them into the backyard and starving them. Or breeding them non stop. I would care for them, like I do with all my animals. Thanks again. One more question. She now has my email address, so now she won't sell to me. So now what do I do? I refuse to lie to her. So if she asks what I plan on doing with them, what should I say?


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## Mamaboid (Dec 20, 2011)

fortheloveofgoats said:
			
		

> Thank you, I thought the same thing. I can understand what she is saying, like you said, but when I am paying a lot of money for something, shouldn't I be able to with it what I want? It's not like I am going to be throwing them into the backyard and starving them. Or breeding them non stop. I would care for them, like I do with all my animals. Thanks again. One more question. She now has my email address, so now she won't sell to me. So now what do I do? I refuse to lie to her. So if she asks what I plan on doing with them, what should I say?


Tell her the truth, just don't over explain.  Tell her you plan on keeping them as pets and breeding animals.  Don't elaborate any further.  If she asks what you plan on doing with the babies...you plan on selling them.  Period. As for your e-mail, don't use it..use the phone, or personal visit.  OR....have someone buy them for you.  Just a couple ideas.  I don't like lying to anybody either, I can see her asking what you are doing with these animals..but control over their offspring is asking a bit much IMHO.  The lady where I got my two newest animals asked the same questions..I told her the truth.  I would love her babies and would use them for breeding.  I would be selling the offspring.  I told her I might sell them for meat or as pets.  She was fine with that, but the lady you are dealing with seems unrealistic to me.


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## marlowmanor (Dec 20, 2011)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

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x2 on the explanation

As for email, you could always open another email account and use it to correspond if you needed to. DH and I have multiple email accounts. He has a personal one, I have a personal one, and we have a joint one. The 2 personal ones we have are ones we have both had for years, ones we had before we were married.


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## peachick (Dec 21, 2011)

We all have our animals for different reasons.  and we all get attached to them at different levels.  Im better off not knowing what someone does with my animals once they own them...  This includes my dogs, chickens, goats..... eggs  LOL

I have these pretty blue wheaten chickens that lay lovely blue eggs.  I have worked at maintaining their excellent blue color for about 10 years now.
When someone writes me asking for some of my beautiful blue eggs to mix with a brown egg layer  to create  UGLY "olive" colored eggs.  I just cringe! and tell them  I have nothing available.  I cant stand that someone would ruin my hard work so selfishly  LOL.  But I know,  once the eggs are theirs  they are free to do what ever they choose with them.  So like I said...  its best  if  I just dont know their intentions.
I would also be extremely offended if someone bought my beautiful baby goats for the purpose of killing them.  OMG


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## Mamaboid (Dec 24, 2011)

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE from Brandy, Dusty, Stephanie, Elsie, Eli and Dude.  Oh and from Wally and I too.


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## Mamaboid (Dec 26, 2011)

How long do you generally keep you does in the kidding stall before the birth, and how long does everybody keep Mama and baby from the rest of the herd afterwards?  Just a general question, cause I think I am within a couple weeks of having babies from my new doe.  If I can get the dern internet hooked up right, which I am working on today, I plan to have a kid cam.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 26, 2011)

We often don't put our does in the kidding stall, until they are pushing out babies or until they are done kidding, if it is nice out like spring/summer we may not put them in a kidding stall at all. If it is cold out below 40 or so then we put them in a kidding stall with a heat lamp barrel for a day or two.  The only time we leave them in longer than a couple days is if there is an issue with mom or the kids, mom isn't bonding well, or a kid has a weak leg, ect..... 

We do have places the babies can lay to get out from under foot. This is important for the safty of the babies, in a stall with mom or out loose in the barn with the entire group. divider boards, or benches for the them to get under, or a creep feeding zone just for the kids to lay in, or barrels sitting around, tubs with holes cut in them(like little dog houses).


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## Mamaboid (Dec 26, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> We often don't put our does in the kidding stall, until they are pushing out babies or until they are done kidding, if it is nice out like spring/summer we may not put them in a kidding stall at all. If it is cold out below 40 or so then we put them in a kidding stall with a heat lamp barrel for a day or two.  The only time we leave them in longer than a couple days is if there is an issue with mom or the kids, mom isn't bonding well, or a kid has a weak leg, ect.....
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> We do have places the babies can lay to get out from under foot. This is important for the safty of the babies, in a stall with mom or out loose in the barn with the entire group. divider boards, or benches for the them to get under, or a creep feeding zone just for the kids to lay in, or barrels sitting around, tubs with holes cut in them(like little dog houses).


Thank you.  It is in the 40's here now during the day, but expected to get colder soon, and the nights are getting down to the 20's.  In the outside pen, the kids will have access to at least 2 different huts during the day, and will be locked in at night.  We lock all our goats in at night due to predators.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 27, 2011)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

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MIne aren't due until the end of January through March.  We have them spread out over 2 months at this point. Used young bucks and also had some young does. Going to be a long kidding season for us. Plus I bred more than my barn can handle. I have no idea what I am going to do. 

Once they are on mom and get a belly full or on a bottle, they can handle quit cold weather, colder than you would think, even at just a day or two old. As long as their bellies are staying full. However in colder weather if there are complications of any kind with them being able to get enough to eat, you will have a much shorter time period to realize it and get them eating before they suffer a lack of sugar to their brain and end up laid out flat on their side.  If this happens use a 3cc syringe and give them corn syrup thinned with warm water or hot black regular coffee. 15 to 30cc. Wait  30 minutes to an hour while they warm up under a heat lamp or by a warm stove in your house and then help them stand to nurse or syringe feed them some of mother's milk. 

Good luck with your kidding.


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## Mamaboid (Dec 27, 2011)

I just love this place.  It is amazing what I have learned in the last 7 months on here and BYC.  My chickens and my goats thank you!


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## ksalvagno (Dec 27, 2011)

I just watch my girls closely and don't put them in the kidding stall until they are in labor. If I'm concerned that they might give birth overnight and it is cold, I may put them in the stall overnight and then let them out during the day.


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## Mamaboid (Dec 27, 2011)

Thank you much.  Mine are all locked in overnight, with two to a hutch, so I will just watch her during the day.  ..... like I don't stand and watch em all the time anyway.


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