# mama boer goat sick



## memela (Oct 21, 2011)

Throat is swelling on one of my new mama goats. Its from her jaw and under her throat. What to do? thanks


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## Roll farms (Oct 21, 2011)

Sounds like it could be bottle jaw, which is basically a symptom of anemia.  Usually caused by parasites.

Check her lower eyelids, if they are pale, chances are she has a heavy barberpole worm load....although there can be other causes of anemia, you may not have time to wait until Monday and have a fecal ran.

There are some things to consider when treating a goat w/ a heavy parasite load.  

1st, you don't want to kill the doe by causing her to bleed out if you hit her w/ a really good dewormer and all the worms die / let go at once.
I would give her a very 'mild' dewormer, like safeguard, at 1cc per 10# for 2-3 days in a row.
Give her red cell / some form of iron supplement daily.  And probiotics.
On the 4th day, I would give Ivomec at 1cc per 25#.  Wait 5 days and do it again. 

A fecal should be ran at some point to see if the dewormer is working.  Then keep an eye on her eyelids and treat her BEFORE she gets to this point again.

I usually cull does who require frequent deworming, as their kids tend to be more prone to heavy worm loads, too.


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## memela (Oct 21, 2011)

Thank you so much Roll Farms... i started tonight with the safegaurd. i just hope its not to late. but one more question do i need to pull her babies from her or can they still nurse?


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## Roll farms (Oct 21, 2011)

Safeguard and ivomec are 'safe' so if that's your worry, there's no reason to pull the kids.

It would be easier for her to not have to feed them, but it's POSSIBLE she can take care of them, yes.  But keep the groceries to her.  Taking them may stress her worse than leaving them on her.

If she's making enough milk for them and you're supplementing her WELL (excellent hay /1/2 cup calf manna 2x a day, good 16% goat feed) she should be able to feed them and recover.  Get some red cell in her.

Were her eyelids pale?

Good luck w/ her.


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## elevan (Oct 21, 2011)

A field test for bottle jaw:  Use your thumb and press into the swelling for 5 seconds.  Remove your thumb and count.  If the indentation remains for a minimum of 5-8 count then it should be considered bottle jaw.

Other things that cause jaw swelling:  Insect / snake bites, thorns / hay pokes, abcesses


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## memela (Oct 22, 2011)

Yes her eyelids were pale. they all have been eating grass put its very close to the ground due to the drought. But will be moving them to the big pastures. i was waiting on their babies to get just a little older before moving them to the pasture. Thanks so very much. i was thinking worms but just need to make sure. one more question this is the first time I have had kids and have 9 now. At what age do i need to start giving the kids their shots& wormer? What do they need to have and how much?


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## Livinwright Farm (Oct 22, 2011)

I second giving all goats(adult or kids) with pale eyelids and/or gums a dose of Red Cell, and if you pick up Goats Prefer Probiotic Powder, you can mix two suck into the syringe and dose all at once.
No need to wait for babies to be older before letting Dam & kids out to the pasture, they will all do just fine   Just make sure they still have constant access to hay so their little internal compost bins(rumens) are nice and happy. 
I find it very interesting that their rumens are happiest when they have the same ratio wet:dry as a working compost bin.


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## Chaty (Oct 22, 2011)

This is why I worm all my does after they kid and then again in 10 days. Even if they are on schedule with their worming. The stress of kidding brings on a big problem. This way its safer for the doe and babies also. Good luck.


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## Livinwright Farm (Oct 22, 2011)

Chaty said:
			
		

> This is why I worm all my does after they kid and then again in 10 days. Even if they are on schedule with their worming. The stress of kidding brings on a big problem. This way its safer for the doe and babies also. Good luck.


You can also allow them to have free access to Pine(not ponderosa- as that can cause abortions), Hemlock, and spruce trees/branches... natural dewormers


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## Roll farms (Oct 22, 2011)

We give our does a CD/T booster shot 3-4 wks pre-kidding, so the kids get passive immunity through the colostrum.
Then between 2-4 wks of age, we give the kids 2cc CD/T vaccine, and boost w/ a second 2cc CD/T 3-4 wks later.  That should cover them for a year.

Since you know the dams have worm issues, I would deworm the kids at 30 days of age, repeat in 21 more days, and either have fecals ran or keep a close eye on eyelid color, coat condition, and look out for nasty butts.

If these are your 1st kids, you NEED to learn about coccidiosis.  IMHO, cocci kills / stunts more kids than any other issue.

This page can help:  (GOOD JOB, Elevan! - I checked to see if we had one yet and we did)

http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-coccidia-goat

I use the DiMethox 40% to treat / prevent it.


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## memela (Nov 8, 2011)

I would like to give a BIG BIG Thanks to all that helped with my goat Carmen !!. She did have barberpole worms which  was  confirmed by the vet. She is recovering very nicely. The swelling is almost gone but it was very bad. shes eating very good but has lost alot of weight I would like to say every time I have asked this site about anything be it my goats or cows you have given execellent advice. i'm so glad to have found this site. The imformation is priceless. Thank to all once again.


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## Roll farms (Nov 8, 2011)

Did you leave the kids on her or pull them?


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## elevan (Nov 8, 2011)

Glad to hear you got a definitive diagnosis and that she's on the way to recovery.

I've never had a goat get bottle jaw but I'm told by my vet that they're pretty bad if they get there.

Is she anemic?  You may want to consider adding Red Cell orally or an iron injection to help her recover faster.


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## Livinwright Farm (Nov 8, 2011)

Once you dose with Red Cell, don't let your goats know where you keep the bottle... They will chug it down!!   At least my goats would... little weirdos.   If they smell the Red cell in the syringe, they all go bug nuts trying to be the one to get the dose, even if they are not the one/s that need it. Same goes with Nutri-Drench... Goats are such funny critters!


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## elevan (Nov 8, 2011)

You're lucky then.  I always look like I've been in a bloodbath after dosing Red Cell...when it gets on your clothes it looks like blood.  I only have one goat that we readily take it without a struggle.


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## Queen Mum (Nov 8, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> You're lucky then.  I always look like I've been in a bloodbath after dosing Red Cell...when it gets on your clothes it looks like blood.  I only have one goat that we readily take it without a struggle.


I mix mine with a little molasses and warm water.  Then they suck it down like it's a treat!


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## elevan (Nov 8, 2011)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> elevan said:
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It's not just Red Cell my goats have a problem with...it's anything orally drenched.  I don't like to dilute things if I can help it cause it just means that much more that I have to get into them.


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## memela (Nov 8, 2011)

I pulled the kids because she was so weak. they are doing very well on the bottle. i have been giving her red cell everyday. She however does NOT like the red cell and shakes her head and yes Elevan it does look like a blood bath on me. But thats ok i don't mind. The vet said i was not the only person with this problem due to the drought down here he's been very busy. He raises cows and hes been de worming them every month because of the parisites. it's just been a bad year not normal for here. i had one more that we  caught in time the swelling was just starting but both are doing good. I have also wormed the whole herd. Thanks again for all yall's help


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## Roll farms (Nov 8, 2011)

You might want to watch giving too much red cell (I dunno how much you're giving them), they can overdose on selenium, iron, and copper.
I gave it to my doe w/ bottlejaw 2x a week for a month, and then 1x a week until she pinked back up.  I was giving her 6cc ea. dose.


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## zzGypsy (Nov 8, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Queen Mum said:
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you might try a bit of pepto bismol as a test... ours will drink it from a dish - and they hate and fight *everything* else.  we add a little pepto to whatever we're giving and they'll lick it off your fingers.  they're particularly fond of peppermint flavored horse cookies too... it's the peppermint.  works on our goats and our sheep both.  so unless our vet says "don't give that with pepto" we mix some in.  makes the whole process easier, less messy, less stressful.  with many of them we don't even have to drench - just put it in a dish and they'll suck it up, and lick the dish clean.

one thing our horse vet taught us - save the tubes from paste wormer, wash them out, and use them for feeding applesauce (or whatever treat they like) to the horses... they learn quickly not to fight the process of wormer dosing because they expect treats when they see that tube.  if we've got a sheep or goat we are likely to have to drench on a more frequent basis, we use the same principle but with a little diluted pepto bismol.  it teaches them to be calm instead of fight, because it's a pleasant treat.  I think this year we may just do this across the board with our lambs and see how well the lesson holds as they mature.

it's interesting what they learn to like, or just naturally prefer... our horses will eat anything if it's mixed with molasses, or carrot shreds, but the sheep and goats don't like it... the goats will turn their noses up at grain with molasses too... they like theirs straight, no sweetener.  we've got one goat that likes carrots, and the rest don't seem interested at all.  we may try applesauce with the goats and sheep this year too, it works on some (but not all) of our horses.

and just because it's not complicated enough, I've got one horse that breaks out in hives if you give him peppermint flavored anything, and another that likes apples, but mashes them up and sucks the juice out then spits out the pulp.  funny creatures.


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## Livinwright Farm (Nov 9, 2011)

peppermint is a natural stomach soother... so that may be what they like about it... aside from the mouth cooling action 
You could also mix in some vanilla(3 of my goats LOVE anything that smells of vanilla), or cinnamon, or mashed berry(strawberry, blueberry or raspberry).


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## elevan (Nov 10, 2011)

Sorry guys / gals but it's not my general practice to give the goats extra special treats or to flavor their meds so they'll take it better.  But to each their own as they're all good suggestions.  I always wear the same pair of jeans when I give red cell and red cell is the only med I have such a mess with  :/  I definitely see the benefit when dealing with horses but for a pygmy goat that gets no more than 80#, I can deal with a head lock between my knees.






			
				memela said:
			
		

> I pulled the kids because she was so weak. they are doing very well on the bottle. i have been giving her red cell everyday. She however does NOT like the red cell and shakes her head and yes Elevan it does look like a blood bath on me. But thats ok i don't mind. The vet said i was not the only person with this problem due to the drought down here he's been very busy. He raises cows and hes been de worming them every month because of the parisites. it's just been a bad year not normal for here. i had one more that we  caught in time the swelling was just starting but both are doing good. I have also wormed the whole herd. Thanks again for all yall's help


Don't forget to redo a fecal (and deworming if needed) in a couple of weeks.


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## 20kidsonhill (Nov 10, 2011)

mine like the red cell, I just mix their dose into their grain. 

Are you using a drenching syringe? That will help.  

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....-441a-a2ea-348b93077098&gas=drenching syringe


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## elevan (Nov 10, 2011)

I have picky goats...won't eat meds mixed with their grain.  And yep I have a drenching syringe.  At least 2 goats are a struggle to get that into their mouth and then I look like a bloodbath    I've got one that sees a syringe and opens wide and loves meds but the other 10 are fighters.  No big deal when you have small goats and know how to hold them really but you do end up with stuff on your hands and other areas at times...and then I wipe my hands on my pants - that doesn't help


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