# Boers and breeding



## redtailgal (Mar 9, 2012)

I have two does, whom I think are lovely.  I am not biased. Ok maybe a little.  You can see their pic at the bottom of this post.

They have just entered their second visible heat cycle.  They are a little snarky, and sort of spastic.  Right now they are standing to let the wethers "breed" them.  

I think that they are about 6 months old (80 pounds, and 83 pounds) , but would have to check their paperwork to be sure. (on a coffee buzz right now, lol)

I hope to breed them this fall.  I know the buck that I will be using, he throws small kids, and is a clean well maintained buck.

My questions:

I plan on taking them to be bred.  How long should I leave them there?

Aside from having them at a good weight, what else should I do pre breeding? 

They will be due for their vaccinations at the same time they are to be bred, will it be a problem to repeat the CDT a month before kidding?

What is the preferred wormer to use, postkidding?

How do you manage to keep your sanity during this process?  My does arent even bred yet, and I am so excited that I can't stand myself.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 9, 2012)

If they are in standing heat the day you take them for breeding, you can stand in the driveway while they are bred and take them home an hour later.   Otherwise leave them for a week.  Keep a calendar of their heats and you will be able to clearly predict their dates.  

If you give them a good sponge bath a day or two before the expected heat date,  (Perianal wash) you would be surprised how much easier it is to "see" a girl in heat.   

You can wait for the CD/T till a month before they kid.  They should be fine since it is only a 4 month window of difference.  

8 months or 85 pounds is the rule of thumb for breeding weight and age with boers and larger breeds so don't worry, they will be plenty old/big enough for breeding.

Make sure their hooves are nicely trimmed at breeding time and that they have had a good copper bolus prior to breeding.  Then at 3 months gestation you can get them up on the stand and trim again.  Be sure and coat their hooves with iodine after trimming at 3 months so they have a nice hard hoof for the last two months of pregnancy since they will be wintering for two months on untrimmed hooves.

Ivermectin or Safeguard are nice gentle wormers for post kidding.  

Also make sure they have had a BoSe shot.  SO if I were you I'd do the copper and the BoSe a month before breeding date.  THen you know they will be fit and conditioned for the "date".


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 9, 2012)

they are lovely does, 

Instead of waiting until right before you breed them to vaccinate them, Why not vaccinate them a couple months early, And then again right before they kid. Some people who show vaccinate every 6 months. 

We leave our does with the buck for at least 42 days. That way you now for sure they have covered two heat cycles. I guess you could lutalyse them and just bring them for that week, I am not very familiar with this practice. We talked about trying it with doese we breed to Goldman, because he is such an aggresive breeder it is hard to just leave the does with him. 

We always use a wormer that you should use during pregnancy for postkidding, Of course we only worm if needed, but normally my does under 2 would require some worming in the spring and summer. We have been using Valbazene, but we are going to switch to Synanthic this spring and summer. 


Very excited for you, They are lovely.


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## redtailgal (Mar 9, 2012)

Thanks for the compliments on my girls.  I do like them myself.  Daisy has a wonderful playful attitude, she is fun and mischievious, but very easy to work with.  Fern, the black and white one, is the prettier of the two in my opinion, but is more "ladylike" and loves to snuggle.  They both are very sweet and easy to get along with.

We live in an area with a high incidence of tetanus, so I'm not comfortable waiting on their shots.  Since it wont hurt them, I probably just do their shots a little early instead of waiting.

42 days is cool with me.  I dont like to "play" with heat cycles too much, so I can just take them and leave them their with the buck.  He is a gentleman, so it shouldnt be a problem.  

Copper bolusing is something I intend to do in early spring to maximize on worm control, so I should be good there.

BoSe.......after speaking with my vet and the ag office, I wont be doing BoSe injections unless I have a weak animal.   There have been several overdoses in our area, mostly because we dont have a deficiency.

 The goat's hooves are trimmed every 6 weeks here, and all hooves checked more often during winter and rainy weather.  (of course, its only a visual check on the cattle unless there is a problem, but I keep the goats on the same hoof check schedule).    It seems to me that with proper care, a healthy hoof should be able to handle the extra weight of pregnancy without extra care.   * Should a bred does hooves be treated differently?  If so, why is that?*

I am curious about something.  With cattle and horses, I have done betadine soaks to treat foot rot and other hoof injuries.  It does harden the hoof considerably, but with the cattle and horses, its a bad thing for the hoof to be that hard.  The hoof becomes brittle, and chips and cracks, often to the quick if the hoof is not oiled to soften it back up and oftentimes, the oil is not enough to help.  For this reason, I tend to use a saltwater soak (its less drying), following with a castor oil rub to prevent the hoof from weakening.  After trimming hooves, I wash them down in a saltwater bath that has been laced with a foot rot preventative (cant remember the name of it)  and a small amount of castor oil .  *Do you find that your goats hooves are flaking after a betadine soak?*  Besides, betadine breaks me out, leaving me cracked and bleeding anywhere it touches.

*note: I am not using medicinal castor oil.  I used the unheated raw form.  It's excellent for wound care and hoof care.  It's often marketed as "The Healing Hand of Christ".  If you ever see any of it, grab a bottle and give it a try, on your critters and yourself, its FAB on chapped elbows!

20kids: I've not hear of Synanthic.  *Can you recommend a website with some good info on it?*


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## Queen Mum (Mar 9, 2012)

Without information, on your individual dosing and vaccination schedules, I gave you my general recommendations.  With the new information that is much more clear.  Here is what I think:

My vet advised the iodine.  She said the hormones during pregnancy tend to soften the hoof.  (Like they do with other bone structures.) in preparation for kidding.  So she said the iodine (not betadine) counteracted that.  And she said the extra weight of the pregnancy can be hard on the hoof as it is.

Yes, a does hooves do get treated a little differently.  Generally a bred doe isn't trimmed beyond 3 months, because the does get hormonal (read: skittish) and you don't want one up on the stand and have them fall off.  Or have them struggling around and fall down and lose the kids.  Their hoof growth may slow down because they are using their calcium differently.  

You kind of watch their calcium intake a bit as well.  

If you live in a high selenium area, then you would forego the BoSe.  I routinely suggest it because many people don't live in a selenium rich area. I should have asked.  My bad.

On CD/T - If you have a regular vaccination schedule and have a high incidence of Tetanus,  than early is Fine.  You can also give the CD/T  now and after the goat kids and then give the kids their CD/T when disbudding.  Or give the kids the CD/T at one month and a booster at two months.  It's not critical that it be given to mom at one month prior to kidding.  That is only a recommendation, not a critical date.   The key is to make sure she is covered.  there is quite of bit of research that shows there is a lot of safety margin and overlap in coverage.  The fact is the Tetanus booster, is good for up to 5 years anyway in between vaccinations.  The CD part is the more critical issue and that is good for up to 18 months.  It's a half life issue.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 9, 2012)

Brand Name: 	Synanthic
Active Ingredient(s): 	oxfendazole
Availability: 	OTC
Withdrawal: 	11 days before slaughter
Indications: 	Control of internal parasites
Dosage: 	varies with brand and type of product
Goat Notes: 	Treat with 2x - 3x the label dosage for 3 days in a row to kill tape worms. Most stomach and intestinal worms show resistance to fenbendazole products. Synanthic can be given to weak and anemic goats at 2x the sheep dosage when goats heavily infested with parasites and are unlikely to be able to recover from the bleed out of a large parasite population dying at one time. Extremely high safety margin. 


I have no specific website that i am aware of that really goes into detail about this wormer compared to other wormers, but it is fairly commonly used with goats. It is listed at Bar None Meat Goats webiste and Fias Co Farm as well as Goatwisdom.com. 

and the label
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/images/label/16383.htm


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## redtailgal (Mar 9, 2012)

I misread betadine for the iodine, sorry.  lol, my mind is working on too many things at once.

I'll have to watch and see about the hoof issues. This is my first breeding, so I am a little unsure of all the "stuff" to go with it, but on the other hand, I really hate to mess with hooves, beyond trimming (and this with any hooved critter).  A hoof injury is just so hard to heal.  So now, I just dont know which way I will go on the hoof care.

My does REALLY like getting their feet done, cuz it comes with treats.  Fern will actually PUT her hoof in my hand, so maybe I will get lucky and it wont be an issue.

I'd like to hear others opinions on hoof care during pregancy, provided we can discuss it without having issues or arguments.  Do you do anything special?  Do you trim during pregnancy or not?


20kids: thanks a ton for that information!  I'm pretty UTD on the wormers used in this area, and this is not a common one. So, I am thinking we would have very little resistance to it.  I've been researching other wormers to use on the cattle as we are starting to have some resistance problems.  This sounds like it may be a goto for both the cattle and the goats.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 9, 2012)

I wish my goats were that happy about hoof trimming.  I pays to start them young.   I only got one of my does at birth.  She's great about it.  The others were in bad shape when I got them.  REALLY overgrown.  

You are SO ORGANIZED.  I really admire that in you RTG.


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## redtailgal (Mar 9, 2012)

lol, organization.......its my curse.  Some people are germ-phobs, others dirt-phobs.  Me........clutter and disorganization make me insane.

I'm in a routine rut, and quite happy about it.


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## Roll farms (Mar 10, 2012)

A hundred years ago someone told me, or I read, that you *never* trim a preggo's hooves, because if they jerk their back legs too much they can abort.

Well, I'm older and wiser now...but we didn't trim the preggos hooves for many years w/out issues sooooo....we still don't.

(This is another of those, "Not saying it's the 'right' way, just answering the question" things.   )

What we do is trim them the day they go in w/ the bucks, then when they're getting their 'post-kidding clean up' they get hoof trims then, too.  

Occasionally one of our 'older ladies' who've been here / kidded lots / we know well will get an early hoof trim when we do a dairy clip.  They're already on the milk stand and if we know they aren't kicky, there's no reason not to.

Usually if I see them cycling in advance and it's close to the time I want them bred, anyway....I'll just go ahead and toss them together, then write on the calendar to 'check so and so for heat' 3 wks later.  
We leave our does w/ the bucks for 30 days.  Theoretically, if they cycle every 21 days, that should give him 2 'chances'.  If they aren't already cycling, exposure to the buck will 'bring them in' in about 10 days.


The only does I deworm post-kidding are ones who've had issues in the past.  I check everyone else's eyelids real often in the 2wks post-kidding and then 1x a week after for about a month (most are on the milkstand daily anyway....even the boers...they know where the good stuff is so they come in to be milked, I give them the obligatory 2 squeezes and thank them profusely for 2 oz of milk....  ) so checking eyelids is just another 'thing we do' like teat dips and hoof checks, etc.

Keeping my sanity?  What sanity?  Where?  When did I have one?  I must have lost it loooong ago.

edited to add:  And those does are very nice, I'd be proud to have them!


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## redtailgal (Mar 10, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> edited to add:  And those does are very nice, I'd be proud to have them!


Thats a huge compliment!

and thanks for the info.


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## EggsForIHOP (Mar 10, 2012)

Those are REALLY nice does!  I'm a tad jealous of how pretty and good looking they are....

Come breeding time you'll be good to go no worries.  At that point you will have read so much on here you will be ready for ANYTHING


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## redtailgal (Mar 10, 2012)

EggsForIHOP said:
			
		

> Those are REALLY nice does!  I'm a tad jealous of how pretty and good looking they are....
> 
> Come breeding time you'll be good to go no worries.  At that point you will have read so much on here you will be ready for ANYTHING


I may be ready for anything, but with goats ya have to be ready for everything lol


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