# Doeling kidding- pic of doeling with her baby



## jodief100 (Jan 30, 2012)

I came home today and there was a baby screaming in the barnyard.  There should have been no babies in the barnyard because all babies and their mommas are in the maternity ward, which is a pen of goat panels. The dog was with the baby.  He was standing over her but not touching.   

It was light brown with a white band so thought it was Yogurt's.  Nope, she had her baby.  They checked Cleo, nope she had all three.  I then realized this baby was tiny and still had a wet cord.  

So I checked Doeling who was locked in the kidding stall.  Yup, she had kidded.  There was a second baby in the stall.  This is a solid wood stall with solid wood door.  There is a two inch gap under the door so in theory and tiny baby could have rolled out.  Said baby would then have to travel about 4 feet to the goat panel, get through the goat panel and then travel about 20 feet to where I found her.  I guess the dog may have moved her once she was out of the goat panel area but how did she get that far?  This is a newborn, 4 hours old, tops.  

So I checked every other doe, even those not due to kid for awhile.  No one else has kidded so this must be Doeling's baby.  

Doeling is ignoring both babies.  I am going to go up and see what I can do to get them to nurse but she didn't cooperate earlier.  The one that was in the barnyard was completely dry, the one in the pen still a little wet.  Could the dog have cleaned her up?  Is this why she is ignoring the babies?  Any suggestions on getting her to take them? 

I do not need this.  No time for bottle babies......  

They are cute.  Two does, one white with a very light cream head and the other light brown with a white band around the middle.  Doeling is Mama's baby, the dairy/boer mix with the nice udder and her daddy was boer.  These babies have a kiko daddy.  

Pictures later, hubby has the camera and I am kinda busy right now.


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## terrilhb (Jan 30, 2012)

Oh wow. I don't have any answers but that is strange. I mean how the baby got out there. It is really cool that the dog watched over it. What kind of dog do you have?


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## daisychick (Jan 30, 2012)

Is there anyway to get Doelings scent onto the babies in case the dog did lick the other one clean??  I just don't think the baby could've went that far on her own, but who knows??  I would try to rub a towel or something on momma and then on babies,  I just don't know what else would help, sorry.


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## Sunny & the 5 egg layers (Jan 30, 2012)

That is very strange, I agree. Very neat to hear that your dog was baby sitting. Sounds like you have a nice dog. If I lived closer I would help bottle feed the babies for you. You have to be sure the kids get some milk in their belly.

EDIT: You say that you have other does that have babies? Maybe see if one of them will adopt these two kids if their momma isn't taking care of them?


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## SheepGirl (Jan 30, 2012)

What you can do is set up a "Lambar" system for the kids so you don't have to bottle feed them yourself. Just set it up and fill it with fresh (but cold) milk one or two times per day.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 30, 2012)

Well, on the bright side they are alive.    But sounds like you might have bottle babies.  And what a waste of a wonderful udder.    I feel for you I really really do.


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## Queen Mum (Jan 30, 2012)

Yep,  sounds like you have a goat mama dog on your hands.  She clearly cleaned up that baby and was taking care of it.   They do that sometimes.   You need to get some placenta on that baby and have the mama lick it  or she won't take care of it.  Otherwise you will have to bottle feed.  She will be OK if you feed three times a day.  Get some colostrum into her


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## RPC (Jan 30, 2012)

Congrats on the twin does but I am sorry doeling is not doing to good at being a mom.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 30, 2012)

This is going to sound strange but what about squirting some of her milk on them, especially the hind end and letting her smell it.  I've noticed my mamas do a little butt sniff test to see if it is their baby.  She's probably way past the birth goo trick since she's not interested in cleaning them.


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## ksalvagno (Jan 30, 2012)

Do you have Banamine? I take it that this was Doeling's first? Try giving her a shot of Banamine and take away the pain. Then work on getting the kids on her.


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## jodief100 (Jan 30, 2012)

Thank y'all for your suggestions.  I do not have any Banamine so I put a call into my vet.  Unfortunately he is out with an emergency foaling.  This was Doeling's first and she is being a pest.  She is not acting like she is in pain.  She keeps hopping up and looking over the stall wall like she has been doing for two days in there.  She scarfed down her grain like she hadn't a care in the world.  I tried to find the afterbirth to rub them but I couldn't find it.  Either she ate it or the dog did.  The baby in the stall was leaning up against the door.  I suspect she kidded right there against the door and baby just rolled out under.  

I got about 5-6 ounces each of Doeling's finest vintage into them.  They were hungry little buggers.  The do have some all over them so maybe it will trigger Doeling.  I left her in the stall with them since she isn't hurting them, just ignoring them.  

Anyone who thinks milking a first timer Boer doe with 1" long teats when you have no milkstand or head catch is fun- come on over!  It is a great carnival ride.  

This was a bad night for hubby to be gone.  My back is killing me and I am starving.  Good thing I have leftovers.......

I will be back up again to milk and feed in a few hours.  We will see what happens then.  

By the way, the babysitting dog was Jack.  My big male Pyrenees.


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## Sunny & the 5 egg layers (Jan 30, 2012)

Happy to hear you got some food in them. Too bad mom is being such a stinker not wanting to take care of her babies.
Take Care Now,
Sunny & the 5 egg layers


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## elevan (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm not suggesting you buy this but it gives good directions for using smell to bond the kid to mom:  http://www.jefferspet.com/images/label/0028931.htm

This stuff would be super easy to make yourself.  It's basically just mint...personally I've got mint in my cupboards and think it might be worth brewing a triple strength tea and using it as a spray if you don't have mint oil.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 30, 2012)

I would keep putting the kids  on her to nurse, and tie up the doe if I had to.  I'd give her a good couple days to accept them, then if she doesn't I'd send her along somewhere else if you catch my drift.   Hopefully she just needs time to adjust and will come around.  

You can do the lambar thing like SHeepGirl said, but for the first few days-week you need to feed warm milk.  Then they can handle the cool milk.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 31, 2012)

I normally give them a 2nd chance,  you never know what could have confused her. Perhaps the dog was a bit to close or I was thinking, you had said earlyier that you put Doeling and Mamma in the pen together.  If Mamma was in their maybe that confused her.  My bet is on when the baby slipped out of the pen the dog came closer and then everything got confusing for her.   Although there is a chance that she wont be the best mom next time either. 

Hope things went okay last night for you, and you were able to get some sleep.


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## jodief100 (Jan 31, 2012)

I got some sleep but I am exhausted.  I feel like I went 10 rounds with Mike Tyson.  At least my ears are still in one piece.  

Babies took another 5 oz or so before I went to bed at 10.  This morning they were much more active and took about 6 oz each.  I think they should be eating more but I am not going to force them. Bellies were full so they are fine.  

I milked Deoling for 10 minutes and got about 12 oz of milk.  So I tried Yogurt, she has a HUGE bag, one baby and hand size teats.  In less than a minute I had 3 cups of milk and she wasn't even close to being milked out.   Since I milked Yogurt last year it only took a few strokes to get her settled in.  So I think Yogurt is going to be the milk momma.  

Hubby is coming home a little early and will feed the babies this afternoon.  I will let y'all know how it goes.  I left him two full bottles of milk.

I will give her another chance.  There were extenuating circumstances.  She was a first timer to boot.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 31, 2012)

Any chance you can get Yogurt to adopt them?


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## jodief100 (Jan 31, 2012)

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> Any chance you can get Yogurt to adopt them?


The thought has crossed my mind and it may be worth a try.  The bugger has plenty of milk. 

I am going to try and find out more about the lamb bar option as well.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 31, 2012)

I don't at all want to tell you what to do, but if she were *my* doe I would not milk her, I would put the kids on her. There's still a chance she may take the kids, and if you don't want bottle babies I'd be putting those babies on her.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 31, 2012)

IF Doeling is paying attention to the kids, and upset when they are gone, but just wont let them touch her udder. Then you have a pretty good chance of getting them back on mom and mom getting over her fear of her udder being touched. But if mom could care less, where those babies are, doesn't talk to  them when you put them in front of her, walks away from them, then in my opinion and experience you have little hope of her taking them back. At this point she should be looking for them and complaining that she can't find them. 

The doe that lost her kid on Sunday is still running between the place she gave birth and the place I moved the kid under a heat lamp, searching and calling for her kid. If I had saved him and kept him in the house for the entire day, I would bet money she would have gladly taken him back.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 31, 2012)

That's a good point, but I think them nursing (triggering oxytocin release) may help her bond to them a little more.  It's worth a shot, and easier than milking the doe!


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 31, 2012)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> That's a good point, but I think them nursing (triggering oxytocin release) may help her bond to them a little more.  It's worth a shot, and easier than milking the doe!


I do agree, It would be good to try.


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## jodief100 (Jan 31, 2012)

With hubby gone last night, I didn't have a lot of options.  There were 40+ other goats and 4 dogs that needed attending to.  

Tonight I can try a few of things that have been suggested.  I never had a doe reject her babies until last year.  Then Yogurt cared for it but wouldn't nurse.  These goats are going to drive me over the edge.  

Doeling appears to be completly ignoring them, but she is careful not to step on them and doesn't knock them away like a doe will do with babies that are not hers...... maybe there is hope.

I made an interesting discovery last night.....

Doeling has 4 teats, two are smaller and about an inch behind the others.  They are all active teats!  When I milked one, both would spray and it went everywhere!  The teast are just so tiny I could get a grip on just one, I had to do both at the same time.  I didn't expect to get milk out of both.  

Such a shame, beautiful udder, lousy teats.


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## jodief100 (Feb 1, 2012)

This is strange.....

Hubby tells me the babies acted like they were starving, but only ate about 2-3 ounces.  Of course I am going to blame hubby.  Was the milk too warm? Too cold?  Nipple clogged?  I ran him through the ringer......

When I go up to feed before bed, same thing!   These babies are bouncing around, very active and are not vocal.  The came at the bottle like they are starving but only take a little bit and then proceed to suck on everything else!  Pants, fingers, shirt......

I used a brand new nipple.  I know it works well, I tested it!  Milk was the perfect temperature.  

Doeling still ignores them and kicks them away every time I watch.

The only conclusion I can come to is Doeling is feeding them when I am not watching.


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## Roll farms (Feb 1, 2012)

If you leave them alone w/ her overnight, and their bellies are not sunken in and 'starved' looking - yeah, she's feeding them.


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## DonnaBelle (Feb 1, 2012)

Just about the time I think I know it all about goats, one of you guys that are real "goat pros" posts with a situation that BAFFLES YOU.

Maybe I'm not such a smart-*** after all.

Guess I'll just keep reading posts on this site, I gotta lot more to learn it seems...

Thanks to all of you who keep enlightening me...LOL

DonnaBelle


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## jodief100 (Feb 1, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> If you leave them alone w/ her overnight, and their bellies are not sunken in and 'starved' looking - yeah, she's feeding them.


Yes, I checked for that.  the first day she definately was not feeding them.  They had that shrunken belly look every time and horked down the bottle like it was thier last meal.  2nd day, not so much.  They didn't have "full"  bellies this morning but they weren't empty either.  

I think Karen was onto it, Doeling was just sore and scared.  

Rotten Goats!

I am going to keep her isolated in the kidding pen longer than I normally would and just keep an eye on them.

Thanks everyone!


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## jodief100 (Feb 1, 2012)

goat!  

I came home and the babies were screaming as they chased doeling around her pen.  Their bellies were not full but not empty either so they must be sneaking a few snacks when she isn't paying attention.  

Hubby and I held her and they drank for about a minute and were happy.


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## jodief100 (Feb 1, 2012)

Here they are.  I couldn't get pictures of them on the ground because they insisted on being at my feet sucking on my pants.


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## wannacow (Feb 1, 2012)

X2!


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Feb 1, 2012)

They are adorable.  Love those faces.


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## neener92 (Feb 1, 2012)

CUTE!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 1, 2012)

They have so much hair.


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## jodief100 (Feb 2, 2012)

This morning babies had full, round bellies!  I saw her nursing them voluntarily and she was nuzzling one.  

I think she's got it.   

 goat.


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## Mamaboid (Feb 2, 2012)

That's great.


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## autumnprairie (Feb 2, 2012)

they are beautiful and big  
CONGRATS


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## Missy (Feb 2, 2012)

Beautiful I love love love the ears


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## jerebear7 (Feb 2, 2012)

TOO CUTE!!!!!!


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## daisychick (Feb 2, 2012)

You saw her nuzzling one!    Good for her, I hope she keeps it up and learns that being a mommy is great!  So glad to hear the babies had full bellies!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 2, 2012)

That is going to make your days a little easier.  Glad she came around.  Clearly it was a confusing time for her.


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## jodief100 (Feb 2, 2012)

autumnprairie said:
			
		

> they are beautiful and big
> CONGRATS


In reality they are tiny.  5 lbs each.  With a Boer Dam and Kiko sire I usually see 6-8 lb twins.  

They are cute.  Thank you all for the help and encouragement.  
I still wonder if one getting out and the dog cleaning it off had anything to do with this situation.  I think it did.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 2, 2012)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> autumnprairie said:
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I would bet the kid getting out and the dog situation was more than a first time mom could handle.  I am shocked to hear they are 5 lbs, they look so much bigger than that in the picture. Although from experience first time moms don't normally have real big kids.


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## wannacow (Feb 2, 2012)

Good girl!


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## ksalvagno (Feb 2, 2012)

What little cuties! Glad Doeling is nursing them now.  I bet between the dog and being a first timer in pain, that created a bad situation.

I had seen a lot of problems with first time birth alpacas who wouldn't let their crias nurse. The one thing I found was that if I got Banamine in them ASAP when I saw what was going on, then they would let their crias nurse much faster than trying to fight them to let their crias nurse. So I was always ready to give a Banamine shot if necessary. It saved many a headache and prevented many a bottle baby. Sometimes if you wait too long, then they are permanently not interested in nursing. Just ask me how I know.


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## aggieterpkatie (Feb 2, 2012)

Glad it's all working out, and they're cute!!     I think when the dog cleaned the one off, Doeling probably said, "Finders keepers!"


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 2, 2012)

YAY!!  So cute!


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## that's*satyrical (Feb 2, 2012)

They are cute! They look big.


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## jodief100 (Feb 2, 2012)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> Just about the time I think I know it all about goats, one of you guys that are real "goat pros" posts with a situation that BAFFLES YOU.
> 
> Maybe I'm not such a smart-*** after all.
> 
> ...


If I ever think I know all there is to know about goats someone send me to the funny farm because I will be delusional.  I am far from a goat pro and will never be one but I do my best and try to learn from experience, mine and others.  

I never figured that 
(1) a baby would accidentally slip under a two inch gap below the door.  Lesson learned:  stuff a bunch of hay on the inside. 
(2) the dog would try to adopt a newborn goat.  I havent figure out yet if this is a good thing or a bad thing.  
(3) that both these crazy things would happen simultaneously.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 2, 2012)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> DonnaBelle said:
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I had a kid slip under a 2 or maybe 3 inch space under a feeder one time.  When we did barn checks we found a doe with a single kid. So we put them in the kidding stall and went about our business. Several hours later we heard this little cry, and found a kid under our hay feeder. Luckily it was a warm day.  I couldn't believe it would fit in that small of a space.


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## TTs Chicks (Feb 2, 2012)

such little cuties!  glad mom has decided she likes them


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## Mzyla (Feb 2, 2012)

Happy ending is always joyfull! Thanks for updating us on a progress!
Sweet chubby babies!


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## fargosmom (Feb 2, 2012)

I'm new, and admittedly ignorant - is it maybe a good thing that your dog found the baby?  I would think that, if it did indeed slip under the door, that if it hadn't been attended by the dog it might have died?  In spite of making the nursing more complicated?  This is me looking for education, not voicing an opinion . . . .

and p.s. congratulations they're ADORABLE!


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## terrilhb (Feb 3, 2012)

They are so very cute. I love babies.


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## jodief100 (Feb 3, 2012)

fargosmom said:
			
		

> I'm new, and admittedly ignorant - is it maybe a good thing that your dog found the baby?  I would think that, if it did indeed slip under the door, that if it hadn't been attended by the dog it might have died?  In spite of making the nursing more complicated?  This is me looking for education, not voicing an opinion . . . .
> 
> and p.s. congratulations they're ADORABLE!


To be completly honest, I am not entirely certain.  It was a warm day so it may have been fine.  It also may have been trampled by the other goats in the pen.  

I am just going to count my blessing and take it for what it is.


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## DKRabbitry (Feb 3, 2012)

Wow.  So glad I read this.  I think, had I been in that situation, I may have been too quick to just give up and pull the babies.  Glad you gave her some time and I learned something in the process.


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## jodief100 (Feb 3, 2012)

DKRabbitry said:
			
		

> Wow.  So glad I read this.  I think, had I been in that situation, I may have been too quick to just give up and pull the babies.  Glad you gave her some time and I learned something in the process.


I have not had many bottle babies in general so my experience is minimal.  When I do I keep them with the general herd unless it is dangerous to do so.  I think they learn so much from being around other goats as they grow.  That and babies play together and it is good for them.  This philosophy may have helped in this situation.  I left them with her since she wasn't hurting them so she had the opportunity to come around.


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## jodief100 (Feb 3, 2012)

Ta Da!!! 

Doeling nursing her baby!


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## fargosmom (Feb 3, 2012)

Cuuuute!


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## Queen Mum (Feb 3, 2012)

Doesn't Doeling know that babies usually nurse from underneath and in front?


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## DKRabbitry (Feb 3, 2012)

> Doesn't Doeling know that babies usually nurse from underneath and in front?


I just figured that the kid had to sneak a sip from behind since Doeling knew someone was watching


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