# Emergency Vet Trip for Blue!



## Southern by choice (Nov 6, 2016)

Eliza is in heat and in the kennel/quarantine pen. All is fine. Pete and Blue lay up against the fence but no issues. Pete doesn't try to jump over or anything.

So what happened?

Blue is humping Pete, Pete gets disgruntled but will get out from under and no issues. However Pete decided to hump Blue. 

This did not go over to well. I see the two from the door start to rar rar rar at each other. I also see this _could_ get ugly. As I am sliding my shoes on and getting ready to grab a lead YEP.

It got ugly.  

Mostly a lot of noise but they were both on back legs standing tall. Neither would back down or submit to the other. I calmly got out there and GW was in the barn, she grabbed a lead as well. We positioned ourselves and calmly waited til both dogs were on all fours. I hollered and for a brief second they broke enough for GW to get a lead around Pete and I got Blue. We separated them. Clipping Pete to the fence. Unfortunately Pete got clipped right next to the Blue Gate and Chunk who was in the front field was pi$$ed that they were fighting so he sticks his head through and tries to grab Pete. 

I still am holding Blue. 
GW yells at Chunk, puts him up in the hallway of the barn. Proceeds to get Blue through the barn out to the front field and out. I release Pete and check him over real good.

Get to Blue and see his ear is badly ripped. 
Put him in with some young bucks, the only field I had left. 

Call and leave a message for the vet. Not a lot of blood but definitely needing put back together. He didn't want me touching it but I told him "mommy needs to see" and he let me but I could tell it hurt.

Not any immediate emergency but it was going to need stitched.

My vet was at a conference and didn't get my call til late. So I get a call with my vet apologizing for calling back so late.  Love my vet.
I texted pics over and was on the phone at the same time. Vet said, I'll meet you there.

Must say I love my dogs! Blue has not been in the car or van since a baby. Yet we opened the door and said, "come on boy" and he hopped right in! Good dog!

He went straight into the clinic, straight back to OR. 
Got a sedative but needed IV sedation as well.  He was growling under sedation.
Can I say he is freaking heavy! 
Took a long time to get it stitched up.  

Hung out there so he could wake up good and vet had animals to tend to anyway. Got home around 11 or something like that. Had to move animals again because he was still a bit groggy and we didn't want goats messing with him.

Musical dogs.

I always feel so bad when I have to call for an emergency. My vet is wonderful to us. How do you really say thank you.


The boys were laying up against the fence next to each other this morning. I felt terrible for both of them. 
Eliza is actually a spay candidate. She cycles every 3 months and for some reason her scent is extremely strong.  She kinda makes every dog a little nutty.
The timing has been off so we haven't been able to do it and we really have wanted to try to hold off as long as we could. I hate to do it but it is a health issue for her and not good to keep her intact.  It will be easier on the boys too.


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## luvmypets (Nov 6, 2016)

I'm glad both dogs are ok! And yay for an awesome vet!


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## Latestarter (Nov 7, 2016)

This is what those of the female persuasion do to many of the male persuasion... Sorry to hear Blue got the worst of it. Glad Chunk wasn't able to get hold of Pete and double the damage done. Also glad that neither you nor GW got hurt trying to break it up. Hope Eliza finishes up and the scheduling works out to get her done. Everyone needs at least one vet like yours. Hope Blue heals up OK, as I'm sure he will. Hope Pete isn't traumatized and the bro's can forgive and forget.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 7, 2016)

Oh no Blue! How's he doing today? 

You have a totally awesome vet. And totally awesome dogs. Glad it wasn't worse


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## Southern by choice (Nov 7, 2016)

He is doing fine. The brat did jump over the isle way and all 3 boys (Blue, Chunk, Pete) were hanging out in the field together this morning. 

Although I am not happy about the squabble, once again, it reminds me how incredible these dogs are. On the way to the vets we were talking about the coyotes which led to wolves and bears. The harsh reality is these dogs will put themselves on the line for their goats and there was a member here that had a pyr that was a lone dog. A pack of coyotes came in, he couldn't fight them all off and was killed. I rather have no lgd's than to underdog. 

Proud of Blue for being so great on lead and traveling. I am also glad we have a big van. These boys just don't fit in a car. 

Here is my baby boy's ear. 



 

On the way to the vet's. He wanted to come up front with his "mom". 


 

Do you all know how to safely get two dogs apart?
This is pretty important. I can't remember if I have shared that or not.

Thanks @Latestarter  we always keep safe. The key is keeping calm and waiting for an appropriate moment. Also a STIFF lead. Never use a flimsy lead or you can't get it safely around them.
You must weather the leads.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 7, 2016)

Aw good boy.  He's so handsome. There was an incident at a dog park up here this summer...  Very very bad outcome...  I wish the person involved knew how to break up dogs. 

Our Alano breeder's wife explained to me how to break up dogs...  She was about 110 lbs but their dogs max out at about 95. Little different than your giant dogs!


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## frustratedearthmother (Nov 7, 2016)

Those boys!   Glad it wasn't any worse!


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## samssimonsays (Nov 7, 2016)

I am glad he is ok and on his way to healing up! It is never an easy situation to plan for or to even imagine.

The worst, and only technical fight, break up I had to do was our collie and our mini dachshund... That little brat was psycho and still is. Decided to attack the collie (80# collie who was extremely protective, fine around our dogs but not so much others) for walking in the room where she had hidden a dog treat. Little dog had collies nose, Collie had little dogs throat. She wasn't trying to kill the little dog but wouldn't let go until the little one did and she was NOT giving up. I grabbed the then puppy who tried to get into the mix to see what was happening and locked him away before coming to help my mom (who was panicked) I held collies collar and slapped both noses at the same time with one loud "ACK" and they let go like nothing had happened. Collies nose was badly bit up and weener dog had 4 very mild, almost non existent punctures in her neck. Neither needed any sort of stitching but the vet cleaned them out and put on antibiotics to be safe. 

I feel like no matter how good or well trained the dog is, it is in their nature and the right circumstance can always arise to cause a scuffle of any magnitude. No ones at fault, we just strive to eliminate that circumstance for future reference in our house.


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## Devonviolet (Nov 7, 2016)

I'm so sorry to hear about Blue's injuries! Glad you have such a great Vet!  

We still haven't found a Vet's office we are crazy about. The one we are currently using won't write scripts for meds they sell in their office (with a nice mark up). That pi**** me off. If I can get a med, for less online, I should be able to do that. It feels like they are holding the med/dog hostage. Apparently finding another Vet locally isn't an option, because they all seem to do it.   THAT'S JUST WRONG!!!

Our Violet & Deo have been "play fighting" since they were puppies. It used to really worry me. But, then one day I realized there was a lot of snarling & growling, but they never touched the other with their teeth. 

Up until recently, it was Deo on his back & Violet on top. Recently, out of the blue they did the standing on hind legs, standing full height. I watched for a while, because this was new. But, again, there was no contact with the teeth. So, I let them go at it. As usual, it only lasted about a minute or so, and all was back to their normal friendly selves. 

Back when Violet & Deo were puppies, I watched a video, about separating fighting LGDs. They used 2 adults. Each took a good hold on one of the dog's tails & pulled them apart. I've never had to do that. So, not sure if it could damage their tails.  

I do like Southern's way of looping a leash over their heads & hooking the clasp to a fence, to keep the dogs separate.  We actually do something similar to catch an errant goat. The goats will never turn down an offer of alfalfa pellets in a bowl. So I take a leash, making a loop with the handle end. I slip the loop over my hand & take the treat bowl in my hand. Once the goat starts eating the treats, I slip the loop over their head and we are headed back to the pen. No muss, no fuss.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 7, 2016)

The tail thing is an option sometimes but not always. One, you better know your dog real well and two, sometimes if it is real bad you can get bit.
The leads are not always looped around the head, more often than not it is around their waist because if in a real bad fight you cannot get close to their head. Sometimes it will be a back leg that you snare. Sometimes it will be the leg on one and the head on another. 

Sometimes there aren't two people so knowing how to deal with it alone is also important. No one ever wants to have to deal with this but knowing is better than not.

A person must always remember to not be in a physical position to get themselves backed up against something or in a corner. Stay to the open outside at all times. Dogs move fast and minimizing damage means keeping yourself safe first, moving calmly and waiting for that right moment. 30 seconds, 60 seconds, etc feels like FOREVER but you must remember wait and be safe.

Our boys love each other, but hormones can be a &**(^*&^&* sometime. 

Blue is never the aggressor, but he won't back down either.


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## Devonviolet (Nov 7, 2016)

I think I ike the idea of putting the loop around a body part away from the head, which puts you farther away from the teeth of an angry, focused dog. 

I can see where an angry dog can quickly turn to bite someone pulling on their tail. Which is why I wasn't sure I would try that in a dog fight.


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## TAH (Nov 7, 2016)

Sorry about Blue. 

He is so handsome looking, (even with a partly torn ear).


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## Hens and Roos (Nov 7, 2016)

Sorry about Blue- glad no one was hurt worse!


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## Ferguson K (Nov 7, 2016)

We also have a pack, and every now and again weha a to break up a squabble. 

I have found that it depends on the dog. Two of ours will back down of I assert my dominance. One, Sully, will not back down. period. I usually have to loop him and pull him back. It takes a moment or two to get his focus sometimes.

I don't like when people go for the head during fights. That's how you get bit! When they're in that "mode" it takes a lot to break concentration. Sully usually breaks the fights up, though, and rarely partakes. Food scraps from the kitchen are what usually stirs them up. They don't ever get them intentionally. 

I'm sorry about your boy. That was looks bad, glad he got stitched up ! Poor baby.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 7, 2016)

Yeah Blue has never started a fight and generally will avoid one unless he thinks we are somehow at risk.
I did get backed into a corner once, it happened so fast. Blue dove in and pushed the two offending dogs back so I could get out.

I think when these things happen it is a bit sobering and reminds you of just why these dogs are bred to do what they do- guard. These are animals that can take on wolves, they are powerful.

Blue is 140lbs, Pete about 135, but a bit taller. They could have done some real damage to each other but they didn't. A torn ear and a few punctures. It was over quick, thankfully. 

DH asked me if I regret not doing their ears. Most places in the world they crop the ears on them for this reason. I didn't feel the need and it makes them look mean.  I like happy looking dogs.  No real issues with wolves here so no need. 

They definitely were easier to deal with then 2 females though. Good golly female dogs hold a grudge for life. Seems like they always have to have the last word.


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## Ferguson K (Nov 7, 2016)




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## NH homesteader (Nov 7, 2016)

I've heard the same about female dogs! Most people with Alanos crop the ears too,  but we left Clara's alone.  She's too darn cute to look mean!  

Blue sounds like a lovely dog! 

It's amazing how many people forget that dogs are animals and expect them to act like people. Not everyone should own a 140 lb dog.


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## Bruce (Nov 7, 2016)

Devonviolet said:


> ...
> 
> We actually do something similar to catch an errant goat. The goats will never turn down an offer of alfalfa pellets in a bowl. So I take a leash, making a loop with the handle end. I slip the loop over my hand & take the treat bowl in my hand. Once the goat starts eating the treats, I slip the loop over their head and we are headed back to the pen. No muss, no fuss.


Hmm I bet that would work with my alpacas. OK after I can do more than scratch under their chin with the hand holding the pellets WHILE they are picking them out of my palm.


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 7, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Eliza is actually a spay candidate. She cycles every 3 months and for some reason her scent is extremely strong.



Do you know why? Do you think she's cystic (I'm thinking goats)?



Southern by choice said:


> DH asked me if I regret not doing their ears. Most places in the world they crop the ears on them for this reason.



I apologize for my ignorance and I'm probably just not reading this right- what reason are the ears cropped for? From what I interpreted, I thought it sounded like you meant so they wouldnt get damaged in a fight, but that doesnt sound right...I always thought it was just for looks.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 7, 2016)

With the Alanos it is exactly for that reason.  They are bred for wild hog hunting. I assume  it is the same purpose with LGD's.  Keeps damage down and makes it so there's nothing there to grab.


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## TAH (Nov 7, 2016)

There was a time when I was home with yella and Boaz when they started fighting. Boaz will instantly stop first time he hears my voice yella on the other hand will keep going. I got Boaz to stop and looped a lead rope around yellas and pulled him back. Once yella was away from Boaz he calmed right down.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 7, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> I've heard the same about female dogs! Most people with Alanos crop the ears too,  but we left Clara's alone.  She's too darn cute to look mean!
> 
> Blue sounds like a lovely dog!
> 
> It's amazing how many people forget that dogs are animals and expect them to act like people. Not everyone should own a 140 lb dog.


Yep! I agree. I also think, especially with LGD's we are wise to remember their capability with predators and the fact we can lose them. 
Thank you, Blue really is my boy! I adore him. Of course if the family were online they'd say "their ALL your dogs"  and they are right! Just love them all so much.  You'd be surprised at how well he walks on lead, sits, and understands what I want him to do.


Green Acres Farm said:


> Do you know why? Do you think she's cystic (I'm thinking goats)?
> 
> 
> 
> I apologize for my ignorance and I'm probably just not reading this right- what reason are the ears cropped for? From what I interpreted, I thought it sounded like you meant so they wouldn't get damaged in a fight, but that doesn't sound right...I always thought it was just for looks.



No not cystic, just happens sometimes. She tends to get triggered by other females so it ends up kind of perpetual. Dogs that do this should not be bred and it is best to eventually spay them.

Yes, ears are cropped to prevent tearing while engaging in "battle". Less risk and damage to the dog. 
I like cropped ears on dogs. Briards, Danes, Dobes, to name a few.


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## Bruce (Nov 8, 2016)

I'm on the other side. I dislike cropped ears and tails for "fashion" purposes. Cruelty to the animals, "bling" for the owners. An uncropped Doberman is a much nicer looking animal.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 8, 2016)

Tail cropping is awful.  The ears are nowhere near as bad.  The pups in my dog's litter that had their ears cropped didn't need pain meds and were normal in a few hours. They didn't care.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 8, 2016)

Bruce said:


> I'm on the other side. I dislike cropped ears and tails for "fashion" purposes. Cruelty to the animals, "bling" for the owners. An uncropped Doberman is a much nicer looking animal.





NH homesteader said:


> Tail cropping is awful.  The ears are nowhere near as bad.  The pups in my dog's litter that had their ears cropped didn't need pain meds and were normal in a few hours. They didn't care.



Originally it had nothing to do with fashion but for purpose. Dogs were bred for purpose. It is not cruelty, this has become a fashionable word in the pet world.  

There is absolutely nothing wrong with ear cropping, tail docking, or dewclaw (dog paws)removal. 
Far too many repeat this mantra and it gets so old.
The same people who say this have absolutely no issues with and often preach spay/neuter.  Whereas spaying a dog is a major surgery. Most don't know that either.
It is the single most dangerous surgery for a female dog. Yet people do this without even having a clue. Another mantra repeated that people believe that it is the responsible thing to do when it actuality it is absolutely not. Ripping out the endocrine system of a healthy animal that has no medical reason to necessitate such surgery is cruel. Most dogs are spayed because heat is too "inconvenient" for the owner. Same goes for the neutering of a male dog. Although not as dangerous it is still a major surgery and has very long term effects on the health of the animal. Setting a dog up for a great many different type cancers because dog owners can't be bothered to be educated on how to not let your dog get bred two times out of the year.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 8, 2016)

My other dog had his dew claws removed...  Do people have issues with that also? His were going to get caught on something and ripped off...  It wasn't a big deal to have them removed. 

OK so is tail docking not as painful to the dog as people say? I don't have an issue with any of it if it's for a working dog.  I guess tail docking for fashion kind of bothers me. 

We have a friend whose mother adopted a perfectly healthy 9 year old dog who was not neutered...  She had him neutered and he is now obese. I am interested to hear more info about spaying and neutering impacting a dog's health...


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 8, 2016)

The vet gave us a hard time when we didn't want to spay my dog at 5 months. Basically told us she would get breast cancer and dogs from miles away would be at our house and it would be super messy.

I saw an article about the dangers of spaying/neutering too early and wanted to wait until she was at least older.

Her first heat came... and... Nothing happened. Where were all those dogs the vet said would come? And her being in heat is not that inconvenient. If she's in the house, we just put a diaper on her.

You NEVER hear anything about how it could be dangerous, only Be The Solution.

My grandmother adopted a kitten from the humane society. At 8 weeks that kitten was neutered because they required that. I mean, I can see how they don't want more stray kittens, but that can not be good for their health, especially that young. She asked if she could wait to do it when he was older, but they said no.

My aunt has a cat who was neutered young and has urinary stones. The vet told her that although no one will tell you this, it was probably from neutering too young...


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## Pearce Pastures (Nov 8, 2016)

Hope Blue heals quickly.  We had an incident over the summer with our two females.  The vet didn't do stitches, just had us do some flushing since the wounds were pretty open, not pocketed where bacteria could grow.  It healed up well.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 8, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> I am interested to hear more info about spaying and neutering impacting a dog's health...


I have 200 pages of studies and documents and my own experience and observation from all my years in canines. This spans from the PRE- spay/ neuter era til present. Sadly most people if you are 40 or younger, and definitely under 35 years old, have grown up in this de-sexing culture... this is all they have heard, all they know and so they haven't even been around or grown up with intact animals. No education on heat cycles, reproduction in the female dog etc.
I find it irresponsible on the vet side and owner side.
Glad you are interested in finding out more so at least you can start making an educated decision. 

I will say for many, after years and pretty much their whole life of hearing this spay/neuter nonsense they really have a hard time wrapping their head around it. 

@Green Acres Farm  good for you! and you are right... it is a bunch of crap. Male dogs do not come from all around. I have 2 females in heat right now. I have 8 intact males. Yes we had a squabble but all in all they are all fine. 

Mammary cancer is the least of the issues. Pretty much eliminated by early spay but then a whole host of other  (far worse kinds) cancers occur because of it. Mammary tumors can be detected early and removed. It is the same tactic that many use with the "pyo" (uterine infection) truth is 1% of dogs will ever get pyo. 

1% 
If a doctor told you that you have a 1% chance of dying from a uterine infection so you should have a complete hysterectomy would you do it? Of course not.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 8, 2016)

I absolutely grew up with  the spay and neuter mantra repeated over and over so it's a strange concept that this may not be correct.  My male dog did have a dramatic reduction in aggression  when he was neutered... But he had other medical issues that were resolved at the same time so.... Hard to say. 

Our friends have an intact male Alano (the cousin of mine) and I've had a hard time wrapping my head around how gentle and well behaved he is! But I am open to reading about it...  I have some time before I will be getting another dog so I will be reading up on it for sure.


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