# Looking for training for Pyrenees



## cheraboo (Jun 26, 2011)

We have a seven month old Pyrenees. We got her when she was around eight weeks old. More to keep predators away from our chickens and various poultry than protect our sheep. Sasha does ok with the sheep. The birds ... well, she wants to play with them. We've lost a few of our younger birds because of Sasha. She doesn't bite them but we have seen them in her mouth. They pretty much have a heart attack. She listens pretty good when we tell her "no" but it's when we aren't there to directly oversee her that problems arise. 

Add a new ram lamb into the mix. Aries (lamb) has been hurt by Sasha. Again, I don't feel this is intentional. The kids have seen Sasha have her mouth around Aries's middle. I've seen her nipping at his legs, too.

A couple of our neighbors are convinced that Sasha will not be a good livestock guard dog and they've told us we should rehome her. I think she is just a baby and is learning what behavior is and is not acceptable. I guess my first concern is whether I am living in fantasy land here. 

How do I find someone who works with LGDs? There are dog triners around, but I'm having a really hard time finding anyone who works with LGDs. I sure would appreciate some guidance.


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## ksj0225 (Jun 26, 2011)

I will tell you that we have a 9 month old Great Pyrenees and she hasn't bit any ducks or goats, including newborn goats.  The only one she has ever messed with is my herd queen when she came out of lock up (establishing the pecking order again). My pyrenees and my buck (about 3 months older than her) play rough, but only for fun.

So it's not 100% normal for a pyrenees teenager to bite.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 27, 2011)

You're not living in fantasy land- it is a normal behavior.  She just needs some training.  Have you tried looking on LGD boards?


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## carolinagirl (Jun 27, 2011)

Some LGDs are never good with poultry.  LGDs bond with their hoofed livestock and some will guard poultry, but none of them really bond to poultry.  That being said I your dog is still a playful pup so I wouldn't give up on her yet.  I can't offer any advise directly because I am inexperienced with LDG, but I have some great links for you.

http://www.lgd.org/library.htm

http://www.greatpyr.com/forum/index.php


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## watchdogps (Jun 27, 2011)

First of all, she is too young to leave her unsupervised with them. Some can be, but most cannot yet at that age. You MUST separate her when you arent watching if she is doing this, because each time she does it, it reinforces the behavior. Next, does she have a dog she can play with OUTSIDE of the livestock area? Or does she get any exercise outside of it? Remember, she is a puppy and she needs play. Give her a couple good play sessions in an area there isnt stock each day. 
Did you properly introduce Aries, or did you just put him in? many LGDs require a formal introduction to each animal you add. Even chickens. They do know each animals scent and even if they are good with a species, they will often separate an "outsider". So maybe you need to get in there and tell her how much you love Aries and he's your "baby" (that works with lots of LGDs - if you love it, they love it - all the more reason to bond with your dog)


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## cheraboo (Jun 27, 2011)

watchdogps said:
			
		

> First of all, she is too young to leave her unsupervised with them. Some can be, but most cannot yet at that age. You MUST separate her when you arent watching if she is doing this, because each time she does it, it reinforces the behavior. Next, does she have a dog she can play with OUTSIDE of the livestock area? Or does she get any exercise outside of it? Remember, she is a puppy and she needs play. Give her a couple good play sessions in an area there isnt stock each day.
> Did you properly introduce Aries, or did you just put him in? many LGDs require a formal introduction to each animal you add. Even chickens. They do know each animals scent and even if they are good with a species, they will often separate an "outsider". So maybe you need to get in there and tell her how much you love Aries and he's your "baby" (that works with lots of LGDs - if you love it, they love it - all the more reason to bond with your dog)


Thanks. We've been keeping the chickens cooped when we're not out with them. Learned that the hard way. Sasha has pretty much been out with our two sheep all along. Now that we have Aries we keep Aries and Peanut (his mama) in the front yard. This keeps them separated from Sasha. My dh wants to chain Sasha up but I am totally opposed to this. At night we pen them in an enclosed garage to make sure Sasha can't get to Aries. We have a pen in the barn but Sasha can get into it with a bit of squeezing. A couple of friends suggested that she was responsible for the death of a ewe lamb born just a couple of days before Aries, but I just don't believe it. The lamb was laying on her side, nice as could be but her head was gone. No blood or anything. Not what I would envision a dog attack to look like. That said, something did get the poor little thing so I'd rather not put Aries at risk. So how do we go about properly introducing Aries to Sasha?

We don't have a playmate for Sasha. The kids have been bugging me to get another puppy/dog to keep Sasha company but I was lucky to get Sasha. My dh is not an animal lover as the rest of the family is. My brother has offered to let one of his dogs come stay with us for a bit (not LGD) but I think she would cause more problems since she is a "city girl" and has never been around any livestock. I think Sasha scares the kids a little bit due to her size and energy level. She is big and likes to jump. We're working on that. Is it ok to take her to a dog park? Or even just away from the backyard and let her have at it?


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## cheraboo (Jun 27, 2011)

carolinagirl said:
			
		

> Some LGDs are never good with poultry.  LGDs bond with their hoofed livestock and some will guard poultry, but none of them really bond to poultry.  That being said I your dog is still a playful pup so I wouldn't give up on her yet.  I can't offer any advise directly because I am inexperienced with LDG, but I have some great links for you.
> 
> http://www.lgd.org/library.htm
> 
> http://www.greatpyr.com/forum/index.php


Thanks for the info


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## cheraboo (Jun 27, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> You're not living in fantasy land- it is a normal behavior.  She just needs some training.  Have you tried looking on LGD boards?


I have been googling, looking for trainers and have come up empty handed. Am I wrong to want someone who has experience with LGDs?


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## watchdogps (Jun 27, 2011)

A dog park would be great! Lots of play, off premises so no confusion. 
She COULD have chewed the lamb head off. Not all deaths are attacks. Did you see the lamb born? If she was around for the birth, the scents of the birth fluids and stuff can confuse dogs at first, or the lamb could have been born dead. Some LGDs will "clean up" dead animals, which isnt entirely unacceptable, distasteful as we find it. In the open fields of their homelands, dead animals would have attracted predators. 
You probably wont find a trainer that has experience in the LGD area. There are some very good online forums and resources as carolinagirl mentioned.


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## cheraboo (Jun 27, 2011)

watchdogps said:
			
		

> A dog park would be great! Lots of play, off premises so no confusion.
> She COULD have chewed the lamb head off. Not all deaths are attacks. Did you see the lamb born? If she was around for the birth, the scents of the birth fluids and stuff can confuse dogs at first, or the lamb could have been born dead. Some LGDs will "clean up" dead animals, which isnt entirely unacceptable, distasteful as we find it. In the open fields of their homelands, dead animals would have attracted predators.
> You probably wont find a trainer that has experience in the LGD area. There are some very good online forums and resources as carolinagirl mentioned.


We didn't see the lamb born. I wish we'd have been there.

I think we'll take a trip to the dog park today


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## watchdogps (Jun 27, 2011)

Yeah, the lamb could have been any number of reasons. Even adult LGDs need to be supervised during births, at least at first. All that action, new smells, etc can be very confusing and exciting for a dog. Please remember she is a BABY, she cannot be trusted to make intelligent desicions. You wouldnt leave your 5 yr old child in charge of your animals, would you? I'm not trying to chastise, just trying to put it in perspective. it's very hard to remember these big dogs are still babies.


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## cheraboo (Jun 27, 2011)

I understand what you're saying. It's so easy to forget Sasha is just a baby.


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## Cabinchick (Jun 28, 2011)

cheraboo said:
			
		

> watchdogps said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Regarding the dog park: I took my St Bernard to the dog park when he was just a little guy. He wanted to romp and play with ALL the dogs including the little ones. The small dog owners did not appreciate this and let me know right away that until he was fully trained he was not welcome. I was so mad  but bigger pups can hurt some of those ridiculous tea cup breeds just by accidently stepping on them. That was just my experience, I'm sure not all dog parks are like that.


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## watchdogps (Jun 28, 2011)

many dog parks have separate small dog areas, and IME most small dog owners do understand their dogs are at risk. Now, if the big dog is grabbing them, and not just being a clutz, that is different.


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## angelwin (Aug 27, 2011)

I have had two Great Pyranees. I love them. My first one lived with the Nygerians and kept them together and we had no losses to predators. I did have to take my close-due girls out of that pature and confine them to kid - I did this because I was afraid the dog might try to 'herd' them before they were able. This worked well. Now I am in the process of training a new puppy the same way. One I get him to come when called and obey simple commands i will put him in with the goats. He is 4 months old now and not training as easily as the first dog - but he is just as lovable. He is better with the birds also, seemingly not interested. I have taken him on my feeding rounds ever since we got him at 10 weeks. We found, though, that the first dog patrolled his territory and went off the property when the edge went that way (out of the pasture) This new puppy does not have that trait. The deepness of their bark as adults lets fox, raccoons, cayote and what ever know their is a BIG dog on duty so watch out! I love the breed - keep working with him!


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