# too much? update



## bonbean01 (Jan 16, 2013)

The little lamb born last night was to a first time mama and I was concerned that her udder is not very big.  Lamb nurses her often...but have been concerned if she is getting enough or not.  So have supplemented her today with 3 bottles of colustrum supplement power for lambs...gave her 1/4 cup each time...she takes the bottle easily and eagerly...then she goes right back to nurse mama.

Mama has some milk...and would prefer her to nurse baby completely, but just not sure.  Since she still nurses I'm thinking that if mama is capable, her milk will come in more.  

So...am I messing here where I shouldn't or should I continue with the supplementing?  Lamb certainly does not hesitate to drink the bottle, so I'm thinking if she was getting enough from mama she wouldn't be interested in the bottle?

I'm wondering if I'm giving her too much to hinder mama's milk increasing, or if I'm not giving her enough?


----------



## SheepGirl (Jan 16, 2013)

I would be a bit concerned that the lamb takes both the bottle and the teat (maybe concerned isn't the right word--just shocked because most lambs are picky! lol). However, instead of using colostrum powder, see if you can get it from her mother. When the lamb digests the colostrum supplement, the smell may confuse the mother and she may not let the lamb nurse.

When you gave her the first bottle, how full was her tummy? If it was full, she's getting enough; if it was sunken in, she's not. Hungry lambs also have cold mouths, whereas well-fed lambs will have warm mouths. Being she's a single I think her dam may have just enough milk for her.

Be careful you don't give her too much--you don't want her to scour.


----------



## RemudaOne (Jan 16, 2013)

Agree with Sheepgirl, also some of mine take a day or three to REALLY come into milk. I would also be concerned about the lamb starting to smell like the colostrum replacer.


----------



## bonbean01 (Jan 16, 2013)

Thank you for your input!  We supplemented a little one last year because that first time mama had a small udder and the lamb was crying.  He nursed and got 3 bottles a day and mama didn't reject him...after about 3 days he didn't want the bottle anymore, so we stopped that and he nursed full time on mama.

I see what problems the bottle could be...yet don't want her hungry and it's freezing every night...but...she does not cry...seems content...so should I stop the bottles and just see how it goes?

Want to do right...not mess this up.


----------



## RemudaOne (Jan 16, 2013)

I would Bon, and just monitor the lamb like you did with the other one.  She should let you know if she's not getting enough. If it were me, what I would look for is the lamb moving from teat to teat multiple times while nursing as if she's trying to find more milk, and as you said, lots of vocalization and apparent frustration. 

Good to know that supplementing doesn't affect the ewe in a negative way too


----------



## pinoak_ridge (Jan 17, 2013)

x2   excellent advice.   Yes, milk production is influenced by demand.   The more a lamb nurses=replacement milk is produced.  It is a symbiotic relationship.      Just keep an eye on her, but it sounds like she will be fine.


----------



## bonbean01 (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks all...won't give her a bottle today and just keep a close watch on her nursing and signs of being content or not.  She will be 2 days old late tonight, so I'm jumping the gun here...fuss budget that I am 

It's cold and windy here today and felt the inside of her mouth and it's warm


----------



## goodolboy (Jan 17, 2013)

Check it for that little round belly. If it fells full and tight, all's goooood.


----------



## bonbean01 (Jan 17, 2013)

Update from me...don't know how to change the title to put that in ?

It's about 1 pm here now...have been watching the almost 2 day old lamb closely...mama is licking her behind and being a good mama...but little lamb's belly is not full...and now she was trying one teat, then the other teat, back and forth and then crying.  

So just gave her a warm bottle a few minutes ago...she eagerly took it, and when I put her back down, she still goes teat to teat when mama encourages her and licks her.  Hope I'm not screwing this up, but my gut feeling is that she was hungry and not getting much out of either teat.

Next question...anything I can do to help mama's milk production?  It's not day 3 yet, so hoping more comes in soon.  One site I googled said to drench the mama with warm water, molasses and vitamins...sound like a good idea?  Mama is eating well and drinking water...does drenching her sound like a good or bad idea?

I'm all for letting nature take its course ... up to a point...won't leave this baby hungry and crying and it's cold out there with wind.  Mama and little one are comfy in their shelter.

Okay...how many days do newborns get colustrum before the regular milk comes in?


----------



## goodolboy (Jan 17, 2013)

If it didn't have it by now this post would be differant. Go get a shot from the vet to help milk drop. Oxy..... somthing I believe
Better suplument the lamb a little in the mean while


----------



## RemudaOne (Jan 17, 2013)

Oxytocin is the drug.  Can you try to check for milk from the ewe? Just see if when you try to milk her, do you get anything out? I don't think you're screwing anything up  and the drench you mentioned certainly won't do any harm.  Do you have the pipestone vet email address? They are so good about getting back to you.  I can find it if you'd like.  The vet that will answer you has 50 years experience with sheep.

ETA: sorry, forgot to mention that the ewe will produce colostrum for 48 to 72 hours


----------



## RemudaOne (Jan 17, 2013)

How goes it, Bon? I hate to think of you fretting!


----------



## bonbean01 (Jan 17, 2013)

So far have only given the one bottle early this afternoon...did drench mama with warm water, molasses, liquid vit B and E...hoping that does something to help, but if not for milk...she liked it anyway...smacked her lips after   Checked and there is a little milk in her teats after baby has gone after both of them.  

I'm guessing the little one gets all there is from one teat, and then the other.  Mama encourages her to nurse and she does try both teats...that has to stimulate more milk production I'd think.  Baby is content right now and snoozing...warm mouth and earlier this afternoon was out while the sun shone bouncing around with lots of new baby energy...she's the smallest of our lambs, but her mama is not a big girl either.  

Tonight we go pretty cold again, and just to be sure she is okay and that I sleep ...LOL...will give her a bottle before going to bed.  Tomorrow night will be day 3...hoping mama's milk production comes in then or the next day.


----------



## RemudaOne (Jan 17, 2013)

Does the ewe ever drop her bum when the lamb is nursing? Just from observation, I think this is when the let down the milk. The nursing and prodding by the lamb (I think) stimulates them to do this. They kind of look like they are squatting to pee.  I think all that you're doing is the right thing to do. Better safe than sorry and I doubt that any lamb ever suffered from an extra bottle, lol!!

Oh, also are you feeding alfalfa?


----------



## bonbean01 (Jan 17, 2013)

Yes, she does do that when baby nurses...she's trying...sweet thing   Her baby girl looks just like her 

I'd forgotten about Pipestone...glad you reminded me 

Will just go with what feels right for now, and not over do it with bottles and hope mama gets more milk.  She doesn't reject baby after a bottle...just encourages her to nurse again...all that sucking has to be helping I'd think.

No rain in forecast finally for the next few days...so hope to get out with my camera tomorrow with all three little stinkers...first two are growing super quickly and playing...cute to see this tiny one with ants in her pants today too...just gotta love these lambie babies


----------



## bonbean01 (Jan 17, 2013)

No alfalfa available here unless ordered online...they get good hay, second cut...and sheep/lamb pellets complete.  Hay is available all the time and during the last month of pregnancy gradually increased their pellets and and still are gradually increasing now that they are nursing.  No skinny gals here...but careful to not have overly fat ones either.


----------



## whr (Jan 22, 2013)

where is the update Bon???


----------



## bonbean01 (Jan 22, 2013)

Sorry about that...Mama's milk came in good on day 4...quit giving any supplement and little lambie is growing nicely...active and content after nursing...so all is well 

Lamb probably never did need supplementing...nor the Mama drenched...but I wasn't sure, so went with what felt right at the time.


----------



## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 22, 2013)

*Yay! Glad to hear everything is fine! Now where's those pics? *


----------



## whr (Jan 22, 2013)

Always good to go with your gut.     So glad to hear the lamb is thriving.  Look forward to seeing pictures.


----------



## bonbean01 (Jan 22, 2013)

Yes...I like happy endings

Photos of the little ones are all on my journal.


----------



## Sheepshape (Jan 26, 2013)

Lovely ending!

It sometimes takes a day or two for the milk to come in, and letting the lamb continue to try to suckle encourages the milk to come (by the natural production of oxytocin).

Well done.


----------

