# I'm getting an LGD! New Question!



## neener92 (Jan 3, 2013)

Well, here is my story... It starts out with getting a female blue heeler puppy 'Maci', I had a male 'Bentley' and wanted a female to make puppies and to have two herding dogs. (I know you're are wondering why I am talking about herding dogs when this is supposed to be about guard dogs...I'm getting there!)  Well, I started having chickens disappear and I'd go out and there would be nothing but feathers, I thought for sure that little 10 week old puppy couldn't have been killing chickens! So, I tied Bentley older heeler (6 months) and still had chickens being killed....are you kidding me?! Surely not that cute pup! I tied Maci and there were still dead chickens! I tied both dogs and no chickens died. Ugh! Well I broke Bentley of killing them and at 2 and a half years he hasn't killed a bird! Maci grew up and I was hoping to breed them but it turned out the male is sterile, she was bred by our yellow lab mix anyway  I got rid of that litter of pups and tried the next time...again the lab bred her, by that time bear hunters had shot the lab so I kept a puppy and left it with the sheep. Maci found her new home about 2 weeks ago when we had another "Maci massacre". The puppy we kept just started killing chickens at a year old after helping Maci take out a few of my hens.   Now I'm trying to find a home for 'Bear', I think I've found one were he can be with sheep...he loves his sheep!

Anywho! I was looking on CL just browsing for a Great Pyrenees and found a 4 month old female for a reasonable price...those are hard to find! I am most def going to be working with her around chickens even though she won't really be guarding chickens...they free range. What are some things I can do to work with her to not eat my birds?!

Here is a pic of her, her name is Caroline.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 3, 2013)

You will be able to work with her but I warn you strongly... They are not mature til 2 years of age and starting somewhere between 5-7 months is when they really want to play with the chickens... usually they are not trying to kill them, it happens by "playing" with them. The playing with them will continue for quite some time.

Many people want an LGD for protection of their chickens. The problem is they were never designed for this purpose. They eventually will somewhat protect them but the process is long in regard to poultry. Please do not get rid of your LGD when she does kill your chickens. LGD's are not disposable dogs, no offense there, it's just too many people get them for the wrong purpose and get frustrated when they do kill  the poultry. This takes time and patience. 

No matter how many people warn of this, there tends to be a disconnect in people that really believe that if raised with the chickens they won't hurt them.  Simply NOT TRUE. EXPECT some loss! This is a frustration because most people that have livestock have poultry also.


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## neener92 (Jan 3, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> You will be able to work with her but I warn you strongly... They are not mature til 2 years of age and starting somewhere between 5-7 months is when they really want to play with the chickens... usually they are not trying to kill them, it happens by "playing" with them. The playing with them will continue for quite some time.
> 
> Many people want an LGD for protection of their chickens. The problem is they were never designed for this purpose. They eventually will somewhat protect them but the process is long in regard to poultry. Please do not get rid of your LGD when she does kill your chickens. LGD's are not disposable dogs, no offense there, it's just too many people get them for the wrong purpose and get frustrated when they do kill  the poultry. This takes time and patience.
> 
> No matter how many people warn of this, there tends to be a disconnect in people that really believe that if raised with the chickens they won't hurt them.  Simply NOT TRUE. EXPECT some loss! This is a frustration because most people that have livestock have poultry also.


Thank you! I expect her to play with and chase them. The reason I am getting rid of my current dog is that he has learned to not only kill them but eat them...feathers and all! I have had several dogs and none have killed my chickens like this line of heelers. I plan on getting a chicken coop and run in the spring, and with only two chicken hens left I can keep them in my small coop, so she shouldn't be able to go after chickens for awhile. I can't keep 'Bear' because he can't be tied or penned...it freaks him out, and I don't want him to have to live like that for 4 months...it's not fair for him.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 3, 2013)

You will fall in love with this breed!     Stubborn... yes. Hard-headed...yes. Endearing.... MOST DEFINITELY!  

Congrats on your new girl! What will you name her?

Oh yeah, since she's 4 months..get her a rabies vac right away! 

Also... we are picture hounds as you know so each stage MUST be PICTURE documented!


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## neener92 (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm sure I will, I've always wanted a GP! I LOVE big dogs, and a big dog that will guard will be even better! 

Her name is Caroline, but I think I'm going to call her Katy, kinda close to Caroline.

Yea, we will get her shots asap! She's had her puppy shots they said just not rabies.

Well, you are in luck...I LOVE taking pictures!


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 3, 2013)

What a cutie pie!   Congratulations and best of luck with her.


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## neener92 (Jan 3, 2013)

We are picking her up Sunday! It's a two and a half hour drive. I'm excited!

SBC; There is no need to worry about her chasing chickens now  my other dog who is only 5 months old and was around Maci and her last killing spree killed a chicken today. 

UGH! I know dogs aren't disposable but when you loose up to 30 chickens a turkey and a goose enough is enough! I can't afford to keep dogs that are killing and eating my chickens, I eat the eggs and sell a few chicks. Now I have nothing left. I know I should keep my chickens penned but I don't have a place to and I like my birds free ranging. I'm hoping if I get rid of the two dogs that are killing my chickens I can stop the chicken killers for good. I will NOT let Katy kill chickens. I will make sure I am there watching her when she is around them and correct bad behavior. There is not hope for the other two dogs unfortunately, on the other hand I think I've found a good home for Bear...the people want him to guard their sheep....he LOVES his sheep


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## Baymule (Jan 3, 2013)

I built a hoop run onto my coop. You take cow panels and bow them over and fasten to a frame. I made mine 8 feet wide and 12 feet long. I used 3 cow panels. I covered mine in hardware cloth and skirted the coop and run all the way around with 2 feet of wire on the ground. The coop is 8x8, so my girls have a bigger area now and it is secure and safe. The hoop coops go up quickly and are sturdy. Here are some links for you to look at. BTW, I have a GP and she was given to me because she is a chicken killer, that's why mine are locked in Fort Knox. She was left to roam, unsupervised on 3 acres with lots of chickens. When her previous owners realized she was killing their chickens, they punished her harshly. Now she absolutely hates chickens, but she still winds up protecting them because they are in "her" yard.

http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/our-hoop-coops

http://www.pathfindersfarm.com/hoophouse.html

http://www.plamondon.com/hoop-coop.html


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## neener92 (Jan 3, 2013)

Baymule said:
			
		

> I built a hoop run onto my coop. You take cow panels and bow them over and fasten to a frame. I made mine 8 feet wide and 12 feet long. I used 3 cow panels. I covered mine in hardware cloth and skirted the coop and run all the way around with 2 feet of wire on the ground. The coop is 8x8, so my girls have a bigger area now and it is secure and safe. The hoop coops go up quickly and are sturdy. Here are some links for you to look at. BTW, I have a GP and she was given to me because she is a chicken killer, that's why mine are locked in Fort Knox. She was left to roam, unsupervised on 3 acres with lots of chickens. When her previous owners realized she was killing their chickens, they punished her harshly. Now she absolutely hates chickens, but she still winds up protecting them because they are in "her" yard.
> 
> http://www.backyardchickens.com/a/our-hoop-coops
> 
> ...


If this girl does wined up killing chickens I will cry! But, I will by then hopefully have a chicken coop and run. I may actually end up doing a hoop run! If she does start to have and interest in birds should I take her near my geese and let them give her a good flop, or would this make her mad at them, I want her to respect/tolerate my birds not so much protect them. By her protecting my sheep she will in some ways be protecting my birds from one side of the property. Does that make sense?

I've also read about LGD wanting to wander, for me this is excellent! Since our big lab/collie is getting too old to patrol our fox, raccoon, possum, and other critters population is getting pretty outrageous! She will have probably over 1000 acres to roam and not have to worry about getting shot or hurt or anything. This make me even more excited!


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## neener92 (Jan 6, 2013)

I got her! She's huge and adorable!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 6, 2013)

YAY!!!!!      you don't get the dancing cows til you post pics though..


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## neener92 (Jan 6, 2013)

Haha, I'll get them soon!


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## neener92 (Jan 6, 2013)

Here she is!


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## HankTheTank (Jan 6, 2013)

She looks like a little polar bear!


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 6, 2013)

:bun :bun

There's your cows lol


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 6, 2013)




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## Southern by choice (Jan 6, 2013)

she,s so pretty!!!!!


and...  :bun  :bun  :bun  :bun  :bun   

and the name is.......................................... ?



oh.. and if she doesn't work out..she has a home here!


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## neener92 (Jan 6, 2013)

Thanks guys! I love her the death already!

She laid in her crate quiet almost the whole 2 hours and  40 mins! We stopped about half way the let her stretch her legs and see if she had to potty. She seems calm and intelligent. I'll let you know more tomorrow when I let her meet the sheep and I might see how she interacts with the birds. Fingers crossed!

She is so darn adorable! I absolutely love big dogs!

Oh her name is Katy, I thought I said that in another post....maybe not?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 6, 2013)

why , yes, yes you did...tell us her name was Katy.....but I am old and have avery short attention span.


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## Shelly May (Jan 7, 2013)

neerner92, read the post on here from people with GP problems and read all you can about raising the great pynessees
with livestock, get as much info as you can. There are right and wrong ways to raise these dogs. She is good looking, but 
I wish the breeder would have had the rear dew claws removed when she was born. You have mensioned trying to breed 
the other dogs you had with no luck, Please don't rush in and try to breed her until you are educated with the breed and 
no how many end up in pounds and kill list. Congradulations on your Puppy.


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## neener92 (Jan 7, 2013)

Shelly May said:
			
		

> neerner92, read the post on here from people with GP problems and read all you can about raising the great pynessees
> with livestock, get as much info as you can. There are right and wrong ways to raise these dogs. She is good looking, but
> I wish the breeder would have had the rear dew claws removed when she was born. You have mensioned trying to breed
> the other dogs you had with no luck, Please don't rush in and try to breed her until you are educated with the breed and
> no how many end up in pounds and kill list. Congradulations on your Puppy.


I have been doing my homework! I did notice her dew claws, and was wondering why they weren't removed.

I won't breed her if she isn't a good guard dog, and til I do have all my ducks in a row, so to speak.

I'm going to start working with her today around sheep and a few turkeys who aren't scared of much when I throw some corn out, that way she should be able to get pretty close to them and the turkeys won't be scared of her.

I am going to work hard to turn her into a wonderful guard dog! Wish me luck!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2013)

Shelly May said:
			
		

> neerner92, read the post on here from people with GP problems and read all you can about raising the great pynessees
> with livestock, get as much info as you can. There are right and wrong ways to raise these dogs. She is good looking, but
> *I wish the breeder would have had the rear dew claws removed when she was born.* You have mensioned trying to breed
> the other dogs you had with no luck, Please don't rush in and try to breed her until you are educated with the breed and
> no how many end up in pounds and kill list. Congradulations on your Puppy.


Hi Shelly May- quick Q... why do you remove the double dewclaws?  It is part of the breed Standard. The GP must have rear double Dewclaws.  I know some vets will recommend it because they don't know it is part of the breed standard. Same with Briards. Do you do it just for safety reasons?


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## neener92 (Jan 7, 2013)

Ok, so this morning I took Katy out to meet the sheep. The sheep ignored her, but my milk cow came up to her to sniff her....poor Katy was freaked out! She wanted back in the barn immediately! So, I made her stand there a little longer then I let her back in barn. I then brought one of my last years ewe lambs in with Katy, this lamb wasn't afraid of Katy and gave her a head but then another, they weren't hard just showing Katy that 'Josie' was to boss. Katy kinda submitted but I was hoping for her to be a little more submitting like rolling over on her back or something of the sort.

After that I put the lamb in a small stall so Katy could sniff her and such. I went on with my feeding and such and let Katy relax a little. Before leaving the barn I took Katy out of the barn once more whilst to sheep and cows were eating and made her stand there a little...she still wanted back in the barn.

She would also get very excited when I would come back in her part of the barn wanting lots of attention, is this a bad sign?


Any suggestions? I didn't let her meet the birds yet, how should I go about doing this?


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## Tiss (Jan 7, 2013)

She's beautiful!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2013)

You should give her attention and kisses and love! Don't push her too hard, let her acclimate and observe. That's not a problem that she didn't drop and roll over. Put her on lead with the chickens and just be with her...if she does go up to one more than likely she will just try to sniff it...chicken playing and killing comes in a few months. Let her sniff then tell her "leave it" and tug lightly on the lead to get her to understand the leave it command. Praise her often!


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## neener92 (Jan 7, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> You should give her attention and kisses and love! Don't push her too hard, let her acclimate and observe. That's not a problem that she didn't drop and roll over. Put her on lead with the chickens and just be with her...if she does go up to one more than likely she will just try to sniff it...chicken playing and killing comes in a few months. Let her sniff then tell her "leave it" and tug lightly on the lead to get her to understand the leave it command. Praise her often!


I can definitely give her attention, kisses and love! She's so stinkin' cute it'd be hard not to! lol It's going to be kinda hard to get her used to the chickens since they aren't mainly in the sheep field, they are mostly in the yard where she shouldn't be going...but they will occasionally wonder down to the sheep barn and pasture. Perhaps I should bring my small cage of silkies chickens down to the barn and leave them in the cage so she can get used to their smell/crazy chicken-ness? I have a hen with three larger chicks. Does this sound like a good idea? I can also teach her what leave it means with some treats.


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## Shelly May (Jan 7, 2013)

Yes, sounds like a great idea, you are doing great, remember never hit her, use the word leave it or NO, loud and firmly.
as for the dew claws, yes safety, some have to travel across rough territory to do their jobs, some travel rockey areas, 
some travel wooded areas with trees down, others jump up on fences, threw old fences, ect..... If one of the dew claws gets 
ripped off they will bleed to death as there is a main blood vein that feeds it. This of course if owner doesn't realize that 
it has been severed so to speak and get medical help. It is rare that this happens, But if your not showing the dogs, and 
just using them for Guardian Animals, better to be safe then sorry, My vet removes them at no later then 4 days old, He 
really wants them at 2 days of age. He just pinches them off, applies stop bleed and gives pups general exam at this time.
I believe he charges $2.00 per pup to remove them. Cheaper then a vet bill later if something happened.


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## neener92 (Jan 7, 2013)

I put my silkie cage in the barn, as I was putting the birds in (there's only 4) I held one to let Katy sniff it...it pecked her right on the nose. I wasn't expecting it to peck her, well that got her a little excited so I told her NO! That calmed her down pretty fast. She was pretty curious with the birds. If she got to excited watching them in the cage I told her no and got in between her and the cage and walked towards her making her move. I did that a few times til she acted like they weren't interesting anymore then I left. She seems very smart.

Here are a few more pics. She's too stinkin' adorable!






Next to the birds, before I left I closed the board gate so she could just peek in...I didn't want her jumping on top of the cage or anything like that.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 7, 2013)

She is precious!  I love how she looks like she has on eyeliner and mascara!  Pretty girl.


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## CocoNUT (Jan 7, 2013)




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## neener92 (Jan 8, 2013)

I love this girl so much! She is a total sweetheart. 

I am going to attempt to take her on a little walk around her territory today, that's if she cooperates! lol

She does have a little problem with jumping up on me, I'm sure its just excitement since she's penned all day. She loves attention and seems to be very willing to please, but I can tell when I ask her to do something such as sit she thinks about it for a minute.

Southern you were absolutely right, she stole my heart!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 8, 2013)

neener92 said:
			
		

> I love this girl so much! She is a total sweetheart.
> 
> I am going to attempt to take her on a little walk around her territory today, that's if she cooperates! lol
> 
> ...


There is just something so special about a pyr!  

Jumping is a problem, right now do not knee her...when she tries to jump up put your hands on her shoulders and push her down, say "down", good girl.. Every time she does this it is "NO". "DOWN".  once she is down then.... "Good girl! "

Pyr's definitely "think" about what you say and then they decide if your desire matches theirs... HMMMM does it benefit me??? NO, well then I will do what I want! STUBBORN.   Does she roll over on her back spread eagle yet?  ALL pyrs do this..they NEED belly rubs! They live for it!


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## neener92 (Jan 8, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> neener92 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There really is! 

I've been telling her "NO". "DOWN". "You are going to be a big girl one day!" and moving away from her where when she is in the process of landing on me she falls. I also tried putting pressure on her back feet, then when she is in a sitting position I tell her "Good girl" and give her lots of love. She loves face scratches! I think her last owner spoiled her with them.

I can definitely tell! She rolled over once fro a belly rub, she really likes face scratches!


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## Shelly May (Jan 8, 2013)

Love the silkies too, Looks like a buff and maybe a splash in cage, I have both.
You are going to be a (great) pyrenees owner.


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## neener92 (Jan 8, 2013)

Shelly May said:
			
		

> Love the silkies too, Looks like a buff and maybe a splash in cage, I have both.
> You are going to be a (great) pyrenees owner.


My Silkies are almost to only chickens I have left.  Since they are caged up they were actually the lucky ones. There is a splash hen and her three Silkie/Quail Antwerp Belgian chicks, they were born the night of Sandy storm, I had to bring them in the house because it was snowing out! Crazy hen! The two buff looking ones actually look like QAB and one was solid white.

I really hope I'm doing everything right! I would really hate to ruin an awesome dog. But, I'm still doing some reading on LGDs. I'll keep ya'll updated and I might ask a few questions now and then if you don't mind.


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## neener92 (Jan 8, 2013)

Katy was really testing me tonight! As I was doing my night feeding she climbed over her stall gate. I told her NO and made her go back in her stall, I closed the door and walked away and heard she had jumped up on the door. I told her "NO" "DOWN" and pushed her off the gate. I had to do this a few times til she got the hint....for a little. The the cats started encouraging her to chase them.  So, I told her "NO" "LEAVE IT" and whens he didn't listen I pushed her onto her back. After a few times all I had to do was tell her "AT" (that's her warning) and then lots of praise when she listened. If she didn't listen to the "AT" I told her "NO" "LEAVE IT" and pushed her on her back. Well, rolled her over on her back.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 8, 2013)

Neener... I have forgotten... what will she be guarding? I know you have cows and goats...where will she be mostly?


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## neener92 (Jan 8, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> Neener... I have forgotten... what will she be guarding? I know you have cows and goats...where will she be mostly?


She will be guarding sheep, horses, cows and the cats kinda go along with that...they live in the same barn. But mostly I want her to stay with the sheep. I've been letting her out to be around the sheep, but she's still scared of them.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 9, 2013)

If you plan on keeping her with sheep it is best to start integrating  her with them. It is ok that she is somewhat afraid of them. She must be submissive to her charges....

I am writing a page on some of these things put here is an excerpt... 

_*Most mistakes are made early on. That small lil pup coming into the presence of goats and sheep is an important phase. The livestock must be able to show their dominance early on and there is a good reason for this. Humans that intervene and protect the pup from being taught who the boss is and who they serve will more than likely show dominance over the animals later. This leads to correcting problems.  You see, that 20 lb. 8 week old pup will very quickly be a 65lb pup then a 100lb PUPPY. At a hundred pounds rarely will a Nigerian Dwarf or small sheep correct the dog now. They will run and be fearfulwhich promotes the pup in chasing. Older mature sheep and goats may try to assert themselves but depending on their pecking order in the herd may never challenge the dog.  The kids and lambs are now often left to themselves. This also promotes the they run I chase mentality in the dog.*_

Remember you have a 4 month old pup...still a baby. Training and correction is important...be careful about flipping her on her back at this point. That is a very strong correction that should not be used for every action. Lead work is effective for small things. 

Bonding with her charges is important...the sheep may ram her or bully her...you want this..as long as they are not seriously pummeling  her then this is how she will learn.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 9, 2013)

I wanted to add, if you have a small lot that you can put her and the sheep in this would be better. Having a large open field and her running through possibly scaring the sheep may cause the sheep to scatter. Given her age, sheep scatter...she may find this amusing and chase... smaller areas for introducing are much more effective at her age. 

What environment was she in before you got her?


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## neener92 (Jan 9, 2013)

This morning I let Katy out in the barn with me while I milked, she sniffed around the barn and then went back to her side or the barn and laid down. After I got done milking I let one of my sheep and two calves out and let them interact with Katy, the lamb kept ramming (not hard) Katy....at one point Katy squealed and I don't know if she snapped but I told her "NO" and rolled her over...Not sure if that was the right thing. Katy is still pretty afraid of the sheep and coward in the corner.

I took Katy for a walk and we went straight to the turkeys since they were in the sheep pasture. As we got closer the turkeys ran a little and the triggered Katy, I tugged on her lead and said "NO" "LEAVE IT". She turned around and came back to me and I told her "good girl". She then tried walking up to them and they walked away, once they started walking away I told her "NO" "LEAVE IT". After that she just sat there looking around and occasionally looking at them. Then I took her to the other side of the pasture so her and my other dog could ramp and play in the snow.

I put the one sheep back in with Katy and watched them for a little the sheep went up to sniff Katy and gave her a butt. I did feed the sheep in front of her before I actually fed Katy. I left the sheep in with Katy. Hope this is ok, I just want her to get used the their company and not mine, and let her understand they are ok.


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## Shelly May (Jan 9, 2013)

Yes, putting her with the sheep at this age is real good, they love compainionship, even if they have to get it
from other animals, But the cows are to big for this, so using the sheep is good. When the cows are in at night 
make sure she is in her own pen. I agree with southern you need to slack off on pushing her down on her back,
not sure where that came from, use the leash and pull back with a quick jerk, and verbally Loud say leave it or 
no this is all you will need to do. Pushing her back was I think for if she was jumping up on you. Not pushing her
on her back????

your doing great keep up the good work!!!!!!


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## neener92 (Jan 9, 2013)

Shelly May said:
			
		

> Yes, putting her with the sheep at this age is real good, they love compainionship, even if they have to get it
> from other animals, But the cows are to big for this, so using the sheep is good. When the cows are in at night
> make sure she is in her own pen. I agree with southern you need to slack off on pushing her down on her back,
> not sure where that came from, use the leash and pull back with a quick jerk, and verbally Loud say leave it or
> ...


I only do the pushing on the back when she doesn't have a leash on and she is doing something she really shouldn't be doing. I push her down when she jumps up on me and tell her no.
She's a very fast learner!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 9, 2013)

hey neener.. did you see the postings I put on pg 4? I tried to be a little detailed but not too detailed.
I think you are doing fine. As Shelly May has already stated as well...the rolling her over is too much.
The "putting them on their back" does come from a lot of the LGD books I know. However, usually this is done for an extreme act, not general training. It is not really a philosophy I am in full agreement with. That kind of correction for everything will be counter productive.
Using it..._not saying you are, just giving an overall understanding_.... incorrectly can cause the dog to be fearful. Building a bond of trust with good correction, loving, yet firm is ideal. Pyr's in general are extremely sensitive to praise/shame. Most LGDs are. 
So far I have had to put both my males(Pyr's) on their backs once and the Anatolian...as soon as I took hold of her collar went submissive immediately. My Female pyr has never had to be put on her back.

I do not believe stepping on the rear toes of a dog to make them learn to not jump up is a good training method. These dogs are highly intelligent, and will learn quickly. Try to remember Katy is a baby and will mess up. Pushing her down with voice correction , like you are doing is adequate. 

Right now I am having to rebuild the confidence on a dog that was pushed too hard by a questionable trainer. It has taken great patience for 9 months but she is finally at a place for re-training. Trust and confidence is very key  in how your dog will perform for you.

Your doing fine.


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## neener92 (Jan 9, 2013)

Thank you! She now knows what no and down mean...we are working on the leave it. 

Two more questions! 

My boyfriend said I was spending too much time with her, is that possible. I really just work with her a little in the mornings take her out for a walk bring her back in and do a little more work. Then like today I was doing some cleaning in the barn so I let her fallow me around if she wanted, and at night I feed her and close up her door. Is that too much?

Next questions....while I was in the barn doing some remodeling and building a hay feeder the lamb was ramming Katy, so I walk out of the stall and look and Katy looked terrified and squealed and she didn't really bit the sheep just opened her mouth. The sheep didn't care so she started rubbing her head on Katy. Katy wasn't aggressive about it just scared. After that Katy stayed in the corner, she was still sitting there when I left. Should I have corrected that behavior?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 9, 2013)

First, let me just say.. NO!! you are not spending too much time with her. When I finish the page I'm working on , I'll let you know. It will explain the "don't spend time with the dog issue". In your setting , what you are doing is fine. You are allowing the dog to see the "goings on" around the farm.  I was a bit confused about the sheep... did Katy bare her teeth to the sheep? 
The sheep rubbing against Katy is good. Tell Katy she's a good girl while the sheep is rubbing against her. If she (Katy) shows teeth, firmly tell her she is a bad girl. 

It sounds as though Katy is somewhat scared of the sheep. You may have already told me but if you wouldn't mind...what is her background? I sense something off here.  By "off" I do not mean anything critical.... but knowing the origin and everything up to the point where you picked her up is important.  You are starting with a 4 month old as opposed to a 2 month old... psychologically there is a great deal that takes place during those 2 months. 

I pick up on some timidity, but also natural puppy playfulness and curiosity.


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## neener92 (Jan 9, 2013)

Ok, good!

I'm not exactly sure is she bared her teeth, she may have been snapping at the sheep. I couldn't really see since the sheeps behind was in the way.

She is scared of the sheep, when they come near her she finds the closest corner. She came from some people who had a mini horse farm, she was with her brother til the day I picked her up. I'm wondering if the mini horses were a little to aggressive with her which may be causing her to be afraid of anything with hooves. I've had mini horses in the past, and they are pretty aggressive little boogers.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 9, 2013)

i sent you a pm.


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## neener92 (Jan 12, 2013)

I added another ewe lamb in with Katy and Josie (the other ewe lamb) yesterday. The newly introduced lamb 'Hartlyn' is a little more aggressive about head butting Katy, she would ram Katy pretty hard. Well, when I checked on them this morning Hartlyn repeatedly rammed Katy till she started barking/growling and biting at the sheep. The sheep didn't care at all, my sheep were around another guard dog so they are used to dogs and not afraid of them. I would tell Katy NO when the she would bit at the sheep but that didn't bother her.

What should I do about this? I took the more aggressive sheep out and it's just Katy and Josie.

Katy doesn't seem afraid of them anymore just annoyed at the fact they keep ramming her, she's fine when they sniff her.


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## babsbag (Jan 12, 2013)

I personally would not leave my young LGD with goats they are afraid of, or goats that are mean to them. I was told that my LGD has a right to protect themselves from the goats if they are being physically abusive. You can't expect her to just sit there and let them ram her; that isn't fair to Katy at all. While she should not attack the sheep or draw blood I think she has to tell them to leave her alone and they only way she is going to do that is by barking at them or snapping.  But that is just my take on it all.

I had a pup that I sold killed last year by a Babydoll sheep so I am very cautious.


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## neener92 (Jan 13, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I personally would not leave my young LGD with goats they are afraid of, or goats that are mean to them. I was told that my LGD has a right to protect themselves from the goats if they are being physically abusive. You can't expect her to just sit there and let them ram her; that isn't fair to Katy at all. While she should not attack the sheep or draw blood I think she has to tell them to leave her alone and they only way she is going to do that is by barking at them or snapping.  But that is just my take on it all.
> 
> I had a pup that I sold killed last year by a Babydoll sheep so I am very cautious.


She's in with sheep. That makes sense. That was kinda what I was thinking, she wasn't provoking them...she wouldn't even bark or bit when they rubbed her just when they rammed her. Thank you! That makes a lot of sense! 

After taking the one lamb out I caught Katy cuddled up with the other lamb.  Well, I don't know if it was her idea but she was in the corner and the sheep laid down next to her and cuddled with her. It was very sweet! She doesn't seem to be afraid of them anymore, she just gives them their space. I think she is going to be a wonderful girl....I love her soo much!  I'm very glad I picked the Great Pyrenees!


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## babsbag (Jan 13, 2013)

My femals is totally submissive to my goats, she rolls over on her back whenever they challenge her. It used to scare me to death, thinking the goats would tramble her. Over the course of 2 years the goats have learned that she is thier friend and she will lay down right in the middle of the herd and they don't mind at all.
I never see them ram her anymore.

My male has another plan. The goats don't bother him anymore, but he has been rammed enough times to know what they are capable of and he is a little afarid of them still. When he wants through a gate they are blocking he simply stands there and barks at them until they move. He never bites and them; just barks. When he was younger and they would butt him he would bark at them, and snap / growl at them, but never touched them. They finally quit annoying him. Poor boy. But I really believe that he had to teach them to respect his space. They are mean goats. 

He is perfect with the kids. Never barks, never growls, he knows that they are babies and that they won't hurt him.

I do have to introduce him to new goats. I have to make sure he knows that they are his to take care of too. Especially if they are small. He sees them as intruders and just acts a little differently towards them. Hard to explain, but I can tell that he is just not comfortable with the new ones for a few days. 

They are amazing dogs to be sure.


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## neener92 (Jan 14, 2013)

I had emailed someone about a 9 month old Anatolian Shephard Female before I got Katy, the ad said $1000 but I thought they might have meant $100, they really did want $1000, they said they paid about $1600 for her. I told them that was too much for me and I didn't really want to pay more than $150. They said they had two other people interested in her and wanted to meet with them first....they said they just want her going to a good home. I asked them how she was around chickens and they said the only thing she does is eat eggs. They had and electric net around the chickens and said a chick got out the other week and "she barked and circled it til they came out to put it back". I told them to let me know if the other people didn't work out...they just emailed back asking if I could come meet her this weekend. I don't know if it would be a good idea to get another lgd so soon after getting my first...what do you think, should I wait? Another guard dog would be nice...I think we had a bear in the yard the other night our old dog and blue heeler ran it off.....freaky! I'm not used to wilderness critters running around the farm, but since our border collie/lab is getting old I'm seeing all kinda of critters lately.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 15, 2013)

Hmmmm.....first, I have to know, if anyone else could pipe in, but $1600!!!???  That sounds made up on their part---do they really cost that much?  I wouldn't head out there until they said they were not going to try to ask for more than you wanted to spend either-I have had people do that before, kind of lead me on, but then push for more than I had said I would pay---waste of time  .

I guess the question is how much time do you have to work with two dogs?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 15, 2013)

Actually second question---if they spent that much money on her, why are they getting selling her?


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## Shelly May (Jan 15, 2013)

I believe you should wait, you have the acres for two, not including your other dogs, but I don't believe you have enough
livestock for two, But I can't remember for sure. And why did the other people who went to see her, not take her???????
Something sounds funny.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 15, 2013)

Actually Pearce, alot of Anatolian go for about a grand. Most Anatolians you see here in the states will cost you about that much so it doesn't surprise me.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 15, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> Actually Pearce, alot of Anatolian go for about a grand. Most Anatolians you see here in the states will cost you about that much so it doesn't surprise me.


Wow, that is a lot of cash!  I see a lot of $400-600 on some dogs, just never that much, but then again, I am not in the dog-world too much.

Something does sound off to me though.


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## neener92 (Jan 15, 2013)

As SHK said they do go for that much. They are selling her because they sold all their sheep. I have plenty of livestock for two, we have over 90 head of cattle who could use some guarding during calving and about 15 sheep...that might be more this spring when I keep ewe lambs. I guess the people that wen to look at her weren't a good enough fit.

The thing I thought was fishy was asking $1000 for her and saying they would take $150-200. I understand them wanting her to go to a good home but why would someone take that much less for her?

I know it doesn't mean much but they have a nice website with some very nice looking stock, they raise a lot of organic meat...from what I read on their website was they wanted to focus more on the beef than the lamb.


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## Shelly May (Jan 15, 2013)

I wonder if she is not good with the cattle? if they are turning more toward cattle, why would they not keep her for this job?
Since you have cattle that need a guardian dog when calfing, might want to ask them first.


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## neener92 (Jan 15, 2013)

Shelly May said:
			
		

> I wonder if she is not good with the cattle? if they are turning more toward cattle, why would they not keep her for this job?
> Since you have cattle that need a guardian dog when calfing, might want to ask them first.


Good thinking! I'll ask!

ETA: They said "She has only been out with calves.  But she was great with them."


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## CocoNUT (Jan 15, 2013)

Ooooh...I KNOW what dog you're talking about! Just south of us right? They've been advertising that dog for MONTHS now! Seriously. I was looking at their original add. It seems to me they're trying to rehome her (for whatever reason)...I wasn't interested because I wasn't wanting to get another female AND spend that much $$ for it! I would also wonder WHY they were willing to dock down their prices SO MUCH - although they HAVE been trying to rehome her for a WHILE now. Probably just don't want to pay for feeding her anymore. If you keep up with it, keep us posted!


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## neener92 (Jan 15, 2013)

They are near Winchester. I only saw one ad on her like Jan 5th or something of that sort.

I asked if they would take $150 and they said they were thinking more $200. Should I ask why they would so willingly take $200 for a dog worth $1000?


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## goodolboy (Jan 15, 2013)

I'd go check her out on the farm, and nab her up if this all comes out the way it sounds. Looks to be a really good deal!!!!!!!!


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## neener92 (Jan 15, 2013)

goodolboy said:
			
		

> I'd go check her out on the farm, and nab her up if this all comes out the way it sounds. Looks to be a really good deal!!!!!!!!


I'm really thinking on it. I'm not 100% sure though....that would be awesome to get and anatolian at that price!


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## babsbag (Jan 15, 2013)

The purebred AKC registered Anatolians go for about 1600 out here in good ole' expensive no one can afford to live here California. 

The breeders that I know also neuter and spay the pups unless THEY decide that the dog can be bred down the road. That in my mind is ludicrous. If I buy a dog for that much money I want to buy the "whole" dog. But I will say, their animals are not only beautiful to look at, but well behaved and can show in the ring and do LDG duties. Just way out of my price. I will have to settle for my awesome mixed breed that only looks like an Anatolian.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm so happy I was able to get Callie at a good price. She is AKC registered and is great at what she does. Fits the size and standard perfectly and has excellent pigmentation. Happy camper


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## neener92 (Jan 15, 2013)

They said this girl is registered with ASA and papered....are you guys encouraging me? LOL


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## babsbag (Jan 16, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> I'm so happy I was able to get Callie at a good price. She is AKC registered and is great at what she does. Fits the size and standard perfectly and has excellent pigmentation. Happy camper


And if that is Callie in your avatar she is beautiful.


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## neener92 (Jan 16, 2013)

I talked it over with my boyfriend and as much as we would love to get this girl....it isn't the best time. If this deal would come up in about a year that would be wonderful!

I also asked the people a little more about her like if she knows how to sit and such...they said she just knows down, and "Guardian dogs you aren't supposed to spend a lot of time with." Then they said she was sweet though.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 16, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> Straw Hat Kikos said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes that is Callie from several months ago.






That's her there.

Sorry neener. 
I'm not going to say getting her is a good idea or bad idea. You are still new to LGD's and rushing into them may not be good, may be. Ya never know. It is rather strange about the price but you never know. She may be great and they really do just need to get rid of her. She is an Anatolian so I kinda want her now. I love Anatolians.


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## neener92 (Jan 16, 2013)

Oh...update on Katy...she is doing wonderful! She's getting along with Josie very well now...they are best buds (Josie could use Katy as a buddy since the poor girl only has one eye). My last guard dog (blue heeler/lab) would play with the sheep so I caught Katy and Josie playing the other day and added the more aggressive sheep Hartlyn. She didn't beat up on Katy this time! YAY! And Katy knows to walk calmly around Hartlyn.... 

Katy was jumping up on Josie as Josie was play ramming her....haha


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## neener92 (Jan 17, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> babsbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Callie is gorgeous! ...makes me want the girl even more! I originally wanted an Anatolian, but I looked them up and saw the price and that was a deff no go...now look! LOL. I am happy I got Katy though! She's a total sweetheart!

As for getting 'Miley' boyfriend says it wouldn't be such a great idea and I showed dad a video of her and he's like "Are you getting her?"....are you kidding me? My dad asked if I was getting her! Normally he would look at something I want and not say anything or say you don't need that. He asked if I was getting her! LOL I told him the whole deal like they are worth $1000 and I could potentally get her for $200 and how stinking rare they are and how awesome the breed is (I looked them up....)

Then if I didn't get her...she could have been the best dog ever...ya know?!

Oh, I'm confused!


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## Shelly May (Jan 17, 2013)

Go visit her and if you like her and her demeaner, Buy her, and if she don't work out, Sell her to Straw


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## BarredRockMomma (Jan 17, 2013)

Shelly May said:
			
		

> Go visit her and if you like her and her demeaner, Buy her, and if she don't work out, Sell her to Straw


X2


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 17, 2013)

Shelly May said:
			
		

> Go visit her and if you like her and her demeaner, Buy her, and if she don't work out, Sell her to Straw


Yes! lol I've actually seen her on CL and thought about it. Never talked to the people and don't know anything more than what I've read here though.


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## neener92 (Jan 17, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> Shelly May said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha! Well, if I get her and she doesn't work out she will be about an hour closer to you! LOL!


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## goodolboy (Jan 17, 2013)

Where she at now? That means she an hr. closer to me now?????????????????????????


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## neener92 (Jan 17, 2013)

goodolboy said:
			
		

> Where she at now? That means she an hr. closer to me now?????????????????????????


I'm not tellin'! LOL  No, she's near Winchester, VA now.

I'm really thinking about getting her...but I don't wonna get too overwhelmed, ya know. Oh, decisions decision decisions....


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## goodolboy (Jan 17, 2013)

That's only 9hrs. from here. I'll be there by morning


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 17, 2013)

neener92 said:
			
		

> goodolboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know of someone here in NC that has good Anatolians for a very good price so if she doesn't work out and you really want one and feel you can take it on then you always do that.


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## neener92 (Jan 17, 2013)

Not if I get her tonight, Goodolboy! 

I'd hate to get her and she doesn't work out and then I'd have to rehome her. Then get another...I've had to do this before with some of my dogs killing cats and chasing cars and now killing my birds...farming is rough/not far sometimes.  Thanks SHK, I guess that would be an option.

I really want and Anatolian, and having one that close for that price! I don't think that could be beat! The only really bad thing she could do is kill chickens or cats....which they said she's been around a cat and she's around chickens.....The good is she's an ANATOLIAN, she's been around birds/sheep/goats/calves, she's gorgeous, I could deff use another guard dog, and I just have an overall good feeling about this.....


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## goodolboy (Jan 17, 2013)

CATS???????


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 17, 2013)

I highly doubt she'll kill your cats. LGD's very rarely kill cats.

Chicken though? Even if she has been around chickens they are not yours and that may or may not be an issue.


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## neener92 (Jan 17, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> I highly doubt she'll kill your cats. LGD's very rarely kill cats.
> 
> Chicken though? Even if she has been around chickens they are not yours and that may or may not be an issue.


I hadn't hear of them killing cats.

Yea, I would definitely work with her around my chickens first...plus I am planning on getting a coop and run.


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## goodolboy (Jan 17, 2013)

I had chicken dieing, the I found a few cats my GP got. no more dieing chickens.


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## goodolboy (Jan 17, 2013)

"Good Dogs"


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## Karma (Jan 17, 2013)

On the note about the cattle, some herds which have been bred with an emphasis on mothering ability sometimes are not the friendliest toward dogs in their pastures. I'm pretty sure our beef cows would kill them if they got close to their newborn calf, and they definitely don't need help dealing with our Coyotes. So, I don't see them selling her and not keeping her for their cattle is a huge reason for concern.

I think an older one who is experienced and good at the job could actually be beneficial with helping teach your younger pup however she is only 9 months which is still pretty young. The "teenage years" have yet to come so I would keep that in mind and remember she will set the example from which the younger puppy will learn her behavior. 

The only big red flag for me is the "Guardian dogs you aren't supposed to spend a lot of time with." comment. I think socialization is just as important for these dogs as pet dogs - maybe even more important as they are so much more powerful than the typical pet breeds. The more they interact with and meet people the better they get at learning our body language and differentiating between threatening and harmless behaviors and are less likely to bite a human who should not be bitten. I would watch her carefully when you are introduced.


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## neener92 (Jan 17, 2013)

Karma said:
			
		

> On the note about the cattle, some herds which have been bred with an emphasis on mothering ability sometimes are not the friendliest toward dogs in their pastures. I'm pretty sure our beef cows would kill them if they got close to their newborn calf, and they definitely don't need help dealing with our Coyotes. So, I don't see them selling her and not keeping her for their cattle is a huge reason for concern.
> 
> I think an older one who is experienced and good at the job could actually be beneficial with helping teach your younger pup however she is only 9 months which is still pretty young. The "teenage years" have yet to come so I would keep that in mind and remember she will set the example from which the younger puppy will learn her behavior.
> 
> The only big red flag for me is the "Guardian dogs you aren't supposed to spend a lot of time with." comment. I think socialization is just as important for these dogs as pet dogs - maybe even more important as they are so much more powerful than the typical pet breeds. The more they interact with and meet people the better they get at learning our body language and differentiating between threatening and harmless behaviors and are less likely to bite a human who should not be bitten. I would watch her carefully when you are introduced.


Karma, that statement was a red flag for me as well. I had asked if she knew any commands such as sit, lay, down or anything and they said she knows what down means then they said "Guardian dogs you aren't supposed to spend a lot of time with.".


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## Southern by choice (Jan 17, 2013)

There are two ways to look at that statement. 

1. Large land where there is little human contact and dogs must patrol massive land are going to be less "interfered" with. Often these dogs are in groups and have a pack order and will patrol and behave in  such a way. It is necessary. They do not need "much training". Sit, stay etc is generally unnecessary.

2. Small land or "up close" and heavily visited farms for business purposes are going to require the dogs to have a bit more training, so to speak. 

The difference is a farm dog vs. a ranch dog. Ranch dogs tend to be very integrated with the human family and all the goings on, as opposed to farm (lg land) dogs that are with livestock that are always moving over mass land.



> "Guardian dogs you aren't supposed to spend a lot of time with."


We spend a lot of time with ours because of customers on the farm and it is a small ranch type setting. If I had 100-1000 acres- no it would not be much time..as it is a great area to patrol, one may not see the dog for a few days. If overly handled these dogs will not patrol that large land but tend to hang out by the closest gate waiting for the humans attention..hence, defeating your purpose of a LGD.

A good true LGD does not require much real training...it is instinct. Sadly most people do try to make these dogs into a pet/ LGD. If you want a pet, get a pet NOT a LGD. My dogs are all taught manners and are in a ranch setting...however NO ONE goes into our fields with our dogs. If I bring the dog out then they are fine, they know the difference between their area to guard and not. I often bring one out to show to people and he loves it... a real show off. The people love it too. Same dog in his field...hands off... he's on the clock so to speak..doing his job.

Not every pyr or Anatolian...etc. is going to be a great LGD. Understanding what to look for in a pup is important. Understanding the nature of a LGD is also important. Trying to change that nature is not only silly but also counter productive. Just look how many breeds that once had a specific purpose now cannot do what they were bred and designed to do. Herding dogs that can't herd, hunting dogs that can't hunt, water dogs afraid of water. There are enough "pet dogs" that are reduced to nothing more than a pet. Pets are great  I have a few  But for a livestock Guardian I want a Guardian. 

Neener, the offer does stand if you would like to know what to look for and the questions to ask.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 17, 2013)

*This is just my personal opinion, but if I was in your situation and I had the money I would absolutely jump on the chance. As it just so happens I am "in the market" for an LGD though. 

I would just go out and take a look at her, assess how she is around people and livestock, and what kind of life she has had. Then if I had good feelings I would get her. 

You will have to spend more time with the dogs training them and such, but it could work out to where you have some really nice LGD's. 

If she doesn't work out, it looks like there are already people that want her! Heck I want her... lol.*


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 17, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> Not every pyr or Anatolian...etc. is going to be a great LGD. Understanding what to look for in a pup is important. Understanding the nature of a LGD is also important. Trying to change that nature is not only silly but also counter productive. Just look how many breeds that once had a specific purpose now cannot do what they were bred and designed to do. Herding dogs that can't herd, hunting dogs that can't hunt, water dogs afraid of water. There are enough "pet dogs" that are reduced to nothing more than a pet. Pets are great  I have a few  But for a livestock Guardian I want a Guardian.
> 
> Neener, the offer does stand if you would like to know what to look for and the questions to ask.


*

I'm not neener, but I would like to know please!*


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## Shelly May (Jan 18, 2013)

Southern they need your help.


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## babsbag (Jan 18, 2013)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> Southern by choice said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not looking for a dog and I got lucky when I got my two, but I would like to know what to traits to look for as well and at what age can you expect to start seeing those traits. 

I sell my pups starting at 8 weeks. Can you see traits in them that early? 

Since I am "picking one out" for another member I want to know what to specifically look for. Getting a pup is not something to enter into lightly so I want to get this right.


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## neener92 (Jan 18, 2013)

I think we are going to try to go look at Miley Monday.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 18, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> WhiteMountainsRanch said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Guys...your killin'me  

Do you know how much that is to try to type and describe on a page?? 

I am working on a page but who knows when that will be done.... I have pages and pages I'm doing for a website.
I was thinking of contacting a few people to see if they have a litter ready, I could then video it and describe the traits and give examples. It is very hard to just put down on paper...you get a better idea if you have a video showing these things.
I have pm'd some people and offered phone advice. I never mind doing that but my time is valuable and I am not always available. If you are *serious* feel free to pm me. Babsbag- you have a litter growing up... it would be great info for you and help you pic pups according to their strengths/weaknesses. 


I would like to say to everyone reading this...

*BEFORE YOU GET A LGD:*

*do you NEED one*
_*what requirements should determine whether you do/don't-  Predator threat is the key.
if you have no predator threats then PLEASE DO NOT GET A LGD
Not perceived threats...actual threats...how many animals have you lost? what kind of predators do you have?*_

*Remember your LGD will need vet care...normal wormings vaccines/ rabies vac/ health check/ hw preventative and feed! AND....WHEN your LGD gets into a tangle with a large predator AND is seriously injured.... CAN you afford emergency care/ vet bills, iv fluids, stitches etc? *

Often times people will forget about that last part.... when, not if, when the animal gets injured doing his job can you handle it? Are you prepared for your LGD to be killed by being outnumbered?

*I have put this on another thread as to not take over Neeners thread*.... http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=23944


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## Bossroo (Jan 18, 2013)

Speaking by personal experience of guard dogs  being outnumbered...  I had 2 Boxers --95 lbs, and 90 lbs.   as my guard dogs.  one day , I tied them up as I had to go to town ...  a coyote came up to the house and started to tease them , the 95lb. one broke the chain and had a running fight down the driveway ( scrapes on the driveway along with a few coyote hairs), then down the road and onto a field where the pack was waiting.  My dog was killed and torn to shreds.  About a year later same thing, however I never did find the body.    My across the street neighbor has a flock of sheep and he had a massive solid muscle at  110 lb  male Rottwieler as his guard dog. His border collies were cowering in their dog house right after a coyote arrived.    That coyote started a running fight with the dog  and led that dog to a waiting pack ....  After daybreak all that he and I  found was the Rottie's head and hide in his other neighbor's pasture .


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 18, 2013)

That's part being out numbered and not having a real LGD. Not any dog is an LGD and too many people think that because their dog can bark it makes it an LGD. Simply not the case.


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## neener92 (Jan 18, 2013)

That  is another reason I want two...not for being outnumbered....we don't have coyotes coming around...just yet. I want two for the large predator part we have had a few bears walk through a field and through our cattle...We've only had one calf killed by a bear in the however many years we have raised cattle. That said I don't want to take a chance, we have had our old lab/collie go up against bears by himself over a million times I'm sure. He's never been hurt thank the Lord, but I don't want the take chances anymore. He's too old to patrol these days so it will be Katy on her own, which she will be bigger than "Squirt" (really he's a large dog...lol), but I don't feel comfortable with just one ya know? Come to think of it bless Squirts heart for being by himself most of the years, although he did have a helper for a few years til bear hunters killed him for treeing their bear.   IDIOT! That will not happen again or they are getting the game wardens called on them for road hunting, these poo heads are dirty! I'd rather have the bears than the people! Any who....I think two would be best for me, maybe I'm crazy? LOL


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## neener92 (Jan 20, 2013)

The people that own Miley sent me a video of her....did I say that already? I'm trying to upload it, hopefully it works....our internet has been sooo slowww lately.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 20, 2013)

neener92 said:
			
		

> The people that own Miley sent me a video of her....did I say that already? I'm trying to upload it, hopefully it works....our internet has been sooo slowww lately.


Waiting...


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## neener92 (Jan 20, 2013)

OK...lets see if this works....

http://youtu.be/wJrFzbAYwQ0


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 20, 2013)

She looks young. How old is she again?


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## neener92 (Jan 20, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> She looks young. How old is she again?


Ten months


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## neener92 (Feb 2, 2013)

Well....I haven't updated you guys! I got Miley.....couldn't resist! When we were there she seemed to be interested in their chickens but not to the point she wanted to hurt them....just play. She was in with a goat and that was it, they had processed the three lambs they had. Here's exactly WHY they were trying to rehome her... The lady told me they got a bottle baby goat (which was still there, a pet) and three lambs (not bottle fed) but she wanted to get some lambs so she could see if she wanted to raise her own. She got really attached to the lambs and couldn't raise them for meat. The reason they couldn't put Miley in with there cows is because they have a donkey who HATES dogs, they said the donkey would probably kill Miley. She also missed her sheep and seemed depressed....she needed a job! As we put Miley in the car they went and told their little boy Miley was going to a new home the little boy was in tears (I felt awful!  ), so he climbed in the back of the car and gave her a great big hug. She was really friendly with us and calm around their little kids.

I'v been working with Miley and Katy, they aren't together full time, I want to work with them separate and if one has a bad habit I don't want the other to be around that til they are older and it will be easier to work with one dog on something than two. Miley did have a bad habit of wanting to jump up not ON me while I was bringing her food out so I've been working with her on that, she's learning fast. The other day she did get a hold of one of my tom turkeys and just pulled some feathers and bruised him. Not a bid deal. I will be working with her on that, putting a turkey in there and having a shock collar on her and hiding.... She's in with my buck goat and three ewes, sleeps in their hay all day.  It's cute. Other than that she seems great...I need to teach her to sit and a few more commands but it been too cold to be outside longer than feeding and watering everything. The lady did tell me if she didn't work out they would take her back...but I have a good feeling she's going to work out.

Katy is an angel, that's for you Southern! She's a big fluffy teddy bear...she listens sooo well! I tell her to come here and she comes straight away, I tell her to sit when I walk in the barn and she's on her behind in a second...she's getting to the point were I don't have to tell her to sit for attention, she walks up to me while I'm walking somewhere and sits and looks at me like "Hey, pet me, I'm being a good girl!". She is awesome, I love her to death! I still have her penned with two lambs, well sometimes, she learned how to crawl through the hay feeder and get into the barn and outside were she sits outside the barn and looks around. I finally got around to fixing that today, I didn't want her getting out and getting a hold of a turkey or something and get herself into trouble. 

I'm happy with the two of them and learning about new things daily. LGDs are awesome!

Here are some pictures of Miley (oh, and Straw, she is huge!  ) I'll have to get some more of Katy! Have I said I love these girls?!

Miley playing with my dog Bentley...the goat is jealous, he was trying to get in on it.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 2, 2013)

Congratulation on you new LGD.  She is a big girl.  So sad about the little boy   Hard to see kids upset about animals leaving.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 2, 2013)

I think it is great! Keep introducing the girls to each other! Now you have the best of both!


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 2, 2013)

Congrats! She's pretty and I know you'll love her. And yes, pictures of the both of them for sure.


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## neener92 (Feb 4, 2013)

I let the girls play some today...it got above 30 degrees!  I thought I was going to have a heat stroke! LOL.

They were doing great for a while then Miley got a little rough and Katy is so submissive she just laid on her back I had to go grab Miley by the collar and had Katy come back over to calm Miley a little, I didn't want to immediately take Katy out and have them leave each other on a bad note. Miley calmed down and didn't really bother Katy after that so I figured it would be a good time to take Katy back to her sheep.  I'll have to work with Miley and other dogs, when my aunt and uncle come they bring their beagle, and my other uncle brings his border collie sometimes, plus we have two small inside dogs.....Not a fan of little dogs.


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## neener92 (Feb 5, 2013)

Miley went after one of our small dogs. She was in her field and I was feeding her and the little dog come crawling under the fence  this dog never comes in this field! UGH! Anyway, she went running towards him and sniffed him, he just stood there and she got all tense and was pawing him and started at him to bite him and I grabbed her collar and pulled her off of him and put her on her back! I have to drive and hour for batteries for my shock collar now.  I'm getting discouraged but I think I can break her of this. I know she's a guard dog but she will have to learn that there are other dogs running around here, I'd hate to keep her in this small lot all her life.....


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## Southern by choice (Feb 5, 2013)

Introducing her to the safe animals is one thing but you need to make sure you are not correcting her from doing her job. She is new there so she may not get who is safe and who is not. 

This takes time and patience... don't you want her to go after animals that don't belong? Just be careful you do not train her out of doing the job she was purposed to do. 

You have only had her for one week.. using a shock collar on her right now IMO is inappropriate. 

My dogs are all great with all dogs here yet they will fiercely guard their fields from my GSD.  They love her outside of the field but inside is off limits. They do see her as a threat to the goats... probably because she stirs up so much trouble _"playing"_ with them through the fence.

Over use of a shock collar or inappropriate use will mess up your dog. A shock collar should never be used to replace human training  and correction. Correction and training the dog to understand is important, _a shock collar is an aide_. 

 Not trying to be negative here but please be careful how much you are "flipping" your dogs, and overuse of this kind of correction plus the use of a shock collar can quickly ruin you dogs. LGD breeds are not like others and if you lose their trust you will ruin them.


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## neener92 (Feb 5, 2013)

I know I got her for guarding. She's been barking at things at night so I don't think I am in anyway training her out of guarding, just don't want her killing one of my other dogs. She will also have to tolerate the other dogs going in her field they roam around the farm.

I've actually had her for two weeks. I don't plan on overusing the shock collar, but when I am in one side of the field and my little dog goes through the fence and Miley runs to the other side of the field after the little dog by the time I'd get there the small dog would be dead. 

I felt the flipping in this case was needed to get the point across. This is the first time since I was told before that flipping shouldn't be overused or done for petty things.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 5, 2013)

Maybe you can introduce her to the "safe" animals daily, having them with you and her so she understands they are safe. She seems like a good girl! We need some more pics!   yes I am a hopeless picture freak.


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## neener92 (Feb 5, 2013)

Yea, that's what I was thinking of doing. She is a very good girl!

I'll work on the pics, it started raining when I was outside earlier.

Katy is an escape artist! I thought I had her pen fixed...she proved me wrong. I MIGHT have it this time?   Probably not!


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## Southern by choice (Feb 5, 2013)

A day in the life....  

I just moved "D" and Callie ( pyr and Toli) in with the sheep... Sheep have never been around any dogs. :/

So we are watching them.. sheep are  real freaked out keep running up to our legs alll frantic like. The dogs... they looked at them and are walking around the fenceline and basically ignoring them. Callie is the one I am more concerned with...

Oh and my 2 males are sharing a fenceline... Badger is not keen on D being in his old area. Growling and sticking his head through... D could care less!

Goofy dogs... but we sure do love them!

D was doing the Bunny Puppy!    I have to get a pic!


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## neener92 (Feb 5, 2013)

Haha, no doubt! They keep you on your toes that is for sure.


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## WLRRM (Feb 5, 2013)

I put my pyr pup in her own fenced area in the middle of the goat/chicken pasture for a few mos. To get familiar. She had been around chickens and goats since birth, still chased a chicken a couple of times when she was a pup(patience). She is now very protective of all of her critters. I would not keep a pyr away from intended herd mates as a pup. I would be more worried for the other dogs when your pyr catches them eating chickens. I am sure you will love the breed, good luck


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## neener92 (Feb 8, 2013)

Ahhh, Katy is awesomeeee!!!!!!!!! She got out again this morning, nothing new.....followed dad to the house after he got done feeding, and went up in the yard and sat with the turkeys!!!!! Just sat there! She tried walking up to the guineas who flipped out and she just sat down! Ate some of their poo  and went back to the barn like a good girl. Love my Miss K!

Miley is doing well, doing a great job of guarding at night...I hear lots of barking. Which really isn't a big deal because I can hardly hear her even though she is practically right next to the house. She got a hold of a turkey......I think she did it for guarding reasons though. I saw a turkey was on the top of our huge 'E' barn (how that sucker got up there is beyond me!) and I'm thinking it flew off the barn into her pasture and she thought it was something going to harm the critters. She was watching a crow fly around the other day like if it would have landed in the field she would have went after it. Which is awesome because there are some hawks up behind the chicken pasture, those darn things have taken birds out of one of our trees in the front yard!  Anyway, I have a good feeling that's what happened because she has had plenty of opportunities to attack the turkeys and she hasn't, just that one time and that's it.

Here's a pic of the turkey on top of the barn. The E on the barn is like 4 feet tall I think....


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## babsbag (Feb 8, 2013)

If a chicken flies over the fence and into the wrong pasture they better fly out in a hurry. When I get new chickens I have to introduce them in a cage for a few days before my dogs know that they are part of the "herd". Doesn't mean I didn't lose a few when the dogs were young, but in the last year it has only been the newbies that get dispatched. I really believe now that the dogs know the difference.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 8, 2013)

x2 if the dogs don't recognize it as one of their birds...well...it's food. :/

My turkeys fly into the trees too! Amazing those big birds can fly like that isn't it!


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## neener92 (Feb 8, 2013)

I forgot to mention the turkey is fine. Just feathers missing a small cut and bruises.

Would it be a bad idea to let Miley out to run with the four wheeler? My other dogs like running around the farm following the wheeler. She follows it when I go by her field. I figured it would be a good way to get some of her energy out.?


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## Southern by choice (Feb 8, 2013)

What's her history there? Some LGD's chase cars etc and that's a bad idea. My neighbors Rott use to chase cars and attack the tires.... until she did that with a four wheeler.... lost her front leg. Ended up lining with the use of three legs.

I would be careful with it as it _can_, not saying it will, _but can_ train a dog to "chase" vehicles. That's never a good thing in the long run.


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## neener92 (Feb 8, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> What's her history there? Some LGD's chase cars etc and that's a bad idea. My neighbors Rott use to chase cars and attack the tires.... until she did that with a four wheeler.... lost her front leg. Ended up lining with the use of three legs.
> 
> I would be careful with it as it _can_, not saying it will, _but can_ train a dog to "chase" vehicles. That's never a good thing in the long run.


I guess she's seen my dogs following it.....? She lived by a busyish road and never seemed to even look at vehicles while I was there. She doesn't try to follow the tractor or any cars that do drive by our place (which isn't a lot we live literally in the middle of nowhere, maybe 10 vehicles driving by in one day.) I feel she needs a little more exercise and she doesn't walk around on the farm on a leash too well..........


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## Southern by choice (Feb 8, 2013)

Exercise is not something you need to worry about. LGD's by nature are nocturnal. They do little in the day, mostly sleep/nap on and off. Their energy is used at night. They are usually up all night. They are moving around patrolling and on guard.  
So seeing her inactive in the daytime is normal.


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## neener92 (Feb 8, 2013)

I'm aware of LGDs being nocturnal. But her field isn't very large for her patrolling to burn off some of that puppy energy.


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## neener92 (Feb 25, 2013)

The girls are doing great!

Katy decided she didn't want to guard the sheep but liked guarding the chickens, turkeys, ducks, and the house better.....Oh well, we love her to death and she is turning into an awesome dog! She has been hanging out with our old dog which is amazing! If she could turn out half as awesome as him we will be set, my family is just amazed at how smart and sweet she is. My dad wasn't too excited when I got her and just last night he came in the house from putting wood in the stoves and had to tell the whole family he thinks she is going to make a wonderful dog and she is so calm for a pup. We love her to death!

Miley is a sweetheart! The other day she tried reaching through the fence to get a hold of our old dog and the electric fence got her, I think she thought it was him. She has calmed down so much since then. She is just wonderful!


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## bonbean01 (Feb 25, 2013)




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