# 2 female baby goats



## fahad (Dec 30, 2009)

Dear all,

I was on a 2000 mile road trip with my friend when i saw an animal market which had blocked the highway. Instead of waiting in the car we went in the market to check out the cows n the goats and I fell in love with 2 baby goats. I was on my way back and 300 miles from home so I decided to get them 

But i had never done anything like this before, I've had chickens for a long time now but goats are needier and i'm sure i'll have to give them more attention than i give to my chickens.

I've had them for a week they're a month old (pics below) and I have questions for the goat experts here:

1. Can they be potty trained? if so how?

2. How much milk should they be fed per day? I give them 750ml/day each

3. When i gave them milk at my place they started having loose motions, i gave them Terramycin (Oxytetracycline) 250mg twice a day. they're much better now. Is there a natural way to cure their stomach without using antibiotics?

4. when do they start eating solids?

5. I'm really new to this so any tip would be highly appreciated


----------



## samplekasi (Dec 30, 2009)

Where are you located I noticed that you refered to the liquid in metric and that those goats have amazingly long ears.  

Have you started them on any solid food hay or grain yet?  My babies will start to nibble hay by a week or 2, even tough I bottle feed up until 10 to 12 weeks.

Have you taken their temps (rectaly)


----------



## Roll farms (Dec 30, 2009)

Oh, my I'm LOVING their ears....*melts*
May I ask where you're located?  Only place I've seen ears like that on a goat (in pictures) was in the Middle East.  I'd love to import some ears like that to my herd.

Are they disbudded (horns burnt off) or naturally polled?

GORGEOUS!

I've never had any luck getting them potty trained (my husband tried w/ his pet pygmy).  One thing that makes it difficult is they poop while walking, standing, and sometimes while lying down....they don't have to "try"...it just happens.  
I'm sure they know they're doing it, my point is you can't see a warning sign, so can't grab them and run outside first like you can with a dog who's circling or sniffing.
I have noticed that the first thing most do after getting up is pee....so after one's been lying around a bit you can guarantee a nice long pee is on the way.  
My husband got the pygmy to the point of going to the door to pee, but never could stop her from pooping inside.

My month old kids are getting 20  oz. (591ml) 3 x a day....1773 ml per day.
What kind of milk are you using?

I use some form of probiotic (ProBios in a tube, with babies) to straighten loose stools. 
Sometimes just the stress of leaving mom / move will cause a flare-up.
The milk you use (powder, fresh, etc.) can also upset them.

I offer them hay around 1 week of age, along w/ fresh water (not enough to fall into) and put medicated goat pelleted feed out around 2 weeks.  They may not eat it right away, but they play with it and get the idea before long.

I bottle feed 3 bottles a day until 2 mos. old, then go to 2 bottles.  At 10 weeks they go to 1 bottle, then wean them at 3 mos.

Tips:  Vaccinate them!  CDT at minimum, repeat in 21 days...then 1x a year.  2 cc per kid ea. time.
Keep a probiotic on hand to ward off tummy trouble.
Check their eyelids and gums for anemia, pale color often is a sign of problems with parasites.

Good luck!


----------



## helmstead (Dec 30, 2009)

Those are the COOLEST looking goats!  WOW!  The ears just make me smile!

To touch on the runny BMs, here we use a sulfa based antibiotic when needed, but you can also use probiotics to help clear them up.

Can't wait to hear more about where you're from and what sort of goat you have!


----------



## mavrick (Dec 30, 2009)

how cute


----------



## Roll farms (Dec 30, 2009)

I believe those have a lot of the 'old' Nubian blood in them...what Nubs looked like before the English got a hold of them and turned them into a purebred Anglo-Nubians.
There may be some African Boer in there (based on the coloring) but a lot of the goats in hot areas of the world have those really long ears to help cool them.  
I'd kill for ears like that...I've read of 18" long ears....I want, I want badly.


----------



## DonnaBelle (Dec 30, 2009)

Hmmmmm.  would it be possible to fed-x one of those over here for the right price??

DonnaBelle


----------



## foxywench (Dec 30, 2009)

omg there gorgeous!


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 30, 2009)

Wow, I had no idea their ears could be so long!  I've taken lots of road trips but I was never fortunate enough to bring home kids as a souvenir- way to go!


----------



## ThornyRidge (Dec 30, 2009)

those  have to be the sweetest.. maybe we can all go in on a bulk shipment..  truly look like a sweet little goat mixed with maybe   basset hound?!?!?!  serioulsy I would love to have some of those ears!!  and the one picture looks like some serious tail on the little gal too!!!!  cute cute cute.. hope it all works out well.. welcome aboard!  and know that many of us on here started out with critters on a whim.. in fact 7 years ago and many goats ago I started out with an impulse purchase of two three day old pygmy goats.. and the rest is goat history!!


----------



## fahad (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm suprised at number of replies, I feel so happy to have found such a  nice community of goat lovers  . I'll post some more pics highlighting the ears.

Ok so I'm located in Karachi, Pakistan. Like a million miles away from where you guys are. I know alot about goats because my uncle is a major goat lover. He buys goats for like US $1200-1500 EACH!!!!! , more on his extravagant goats later. bottom line knowing about goats doesn't make you an expert on raising one.

 These babies I have are known locally as KAMORI breed and are known for their pink skins and long ears. They're good milk producers and are one of the most expensive kind of animals here. 18 inch ears are pretty common in these breeds. 

They are not disbuddled, they'll grow horns (I hope they do) I saw their mother and she had horns. you can feel two little bumps on their heads when you touch them.

I haven't given them any solid foods yet, they just drink milk. Should i start giving solids???. When i brought them home i started them on Nestle Nido (powder milk) but then i went to my doctor (my doctor not a vet, the long road trip took its toll and i fell sick) and he told me not to give them Nido as its full of minerals and what not and it'll cause runny tummies. So on my doctors advice I've started giving them normal cow milk available at milk shops. I dont dilute the milk with water as its already diluted by the milk sellers so that they make more profit (I live in the third world haha). I give them milk thrice a day 250ml x 3. Should I give them more.

I haven't taken temperatures yet? Is it neccessary to take temperatures? and if so what temp range is normal? I wouldn't like anyone taking mine that way.

I dont know how to check eye lids n all so i'll post some pics and maybe you guys can help me out.

I can't fedex them to you guys , And even if there is a way of sending them to you. It'll cost a LOT of money.


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 31, 2009)

What a great resource this forum is!  I love that there are people from all over the world- welcome Fahad!


----------



## stano40 (Dec 31, 2009)

Try this site out.  It has the basic information on goats temp, heart rate, respiration, etc.  It's called the "Normal Goat"

http://bedford.extension.psu.edu/agriculture/goat/Normal Goat.htm


The site is part of a home study for meat goats.  The main page will lead you to other information on goats.

Such as:  Health, Reproduction, Marketing, Nutrition, etc.



http://bedford.extension.psu.edu/agriculture/goat/Goat Lessons.htm


----------



## helmstead (Dec 31, 2009)

Very neat!  Headed to google the breed!

If they're not disbudded, then they're probably REALLY young, like a week old or so.  

Yup, regular cow's milk is perfect - wont cause the runs like replacers will.


----------



## helmstead (Dec 31, 2009)

LOOK you guys!!  WOW!!
http://www.goatworld.com/breeds/kamori.shtml


----------



## DonnaBelle (Dec 31, 2009)

Thanks Helmstead for the link.  Did you guys see the black goat with the orange spots?? Or was it the orange goat with the black spots.  

Those are really great goats.  I want one.  

Thanks for your post from Pakistan.  And welcome to BYH.  I'm sure everyone will be most helpful in your quest to take good care of your goats.

DonnaBelle


----------



## ksalvagno (Dec 31, 2009)

Way too cool! But those goats sure do get big!


----------



## JerseyXGirl (Dec 31, 2009)

Ok, the black w/orange spots is gorgeous but either the goat is huge or the man is small, lol.


Edit to add:  Welcome to BYH's!!!!


----------



## foxywench (Dec 31, 2009)

i think its a middle ground lol, relitivly large goat relitivly small man = REALY BIG goat lol.
that is just a stunning goat!

but i want 1 or 6!

anyone up for a goat buying trip to pakistan?!  *drools*

see thats what i imagin nubians used to look like...wonder if theres away to bring back those stunning ears.


----------



## lilhill (Dec 31, 2009)

Fabulous animals.  They are awesome!  Those goats are big enough to ride!


----------



## Roll farms (Dec 31, 2009)

I've BEEN wanting one.  I do, I do, I really do.

But I can't afford that many stamps to send to put on the goat's bum so he can mail it to me...

It's a good idea to know the goat's "normal" temperature, then if they get sick, you'll know by taking the temp if they're really running a fever or not.  Trust me, they won't really mind, you only have to instert the thermometer 1" or so.

I would definitely offer them hay (they may not eat it, but you can offer it) and maybe try pellets in another week or two.

I am feeding our 1-mo old kids close to 1800 ml per day.  If your babies seem to still want more milk when you're done feeding them, I'd gradually increase what you're giving them.   They'll stop eating and only "play" w/ the nipple when they're full.

Mine quit at 20 oz (591 ml).

Yes, PLEASE post more pics, I love, love, love them...and welcome to BYH!


----------



## ThornyRidge (Dec 31, 2009)

I am curious as to what is available in Pakistan as far as goat health and husbandry? Here in the States we can go on line and order many different types of medications and supplements from goat supply or livestock supply companies or run down the street to local Tractor Supply Company.. I know I personally have started incorporating more holistic and natural methods .. I tend to think pumping animals full of chemicals for preventative reasons does not seem necessary.. just thinking too if you have some ground cinnamon maybe sprinkle some of that in the milk you are bottle feeding.. will help with tummy troubles..  keep us posted and pictures will be a must... and man I would love to hit the lotto to get me a couple of those shipped!!!!


----------



## freemotion (Dec 31, 2009)

Fahad, you might also enjoy this site:  www.fiascofarm.com  especially if you can't get all the meds and such on the other sites.  It gives some more natural option for goat care.


----------



## FlightsofFancy (Jan 1, 2010)

You have some really sweet looking goats there!


----------



## fahad (Jan 1, 2010)

Thank you so much for such a warm welcome 

Thanks for all your tips and links, you guys are the best! All this information has been really helpful.

You guys are always welcome to visit Pakistan for a goat trip, I'll arrange all the logistics here if you ever come.

Karachi is the 7th largest city in the world, everything is available here its just not as easy as it is in the states where you can order everything online. You have to go out n find out where what is available, but you do get everything you can think of. There are many vets here and also there is a really big animal hospital, I've never been there but i know where it is. 

I've attached some pictures here, their eyes were watery so i took pictures of their eyes. Please do let me know why you think their eyes were all watery. I'm sorry if anyone has a slow internet connection I've attached 8 pictures here.

I've also uploaded a video of my goats here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uceJFCCtxf8


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 1, 2010)

I would put some terramycin eye ointment in their eyes, or at the very least squirt some Pen-G in them....3 x a day for a few days, it should clear up.  
It doesn't really look like pink eye to me but it could be the early start of it, or some simple minor infection.
Could also be entropian eye, where they eyelid turns in and the lashes irritate the eye.  
I just had a kid born with that, though, and usually the irritation starts right away.  I'd think you'd have noticed it when you first got them.

Any chance you can talk to your uncle w/ the fancy goats and see if he'd be willing to look into shipping one of those to the US for me....I'm serious, depending on the cost.  Or tell me who to contact...

You can email me privately at kritter11@yahoo.com to discuss particulars...
Thanks!


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 1, 2010)

Until fahad posted his pics, these were the longes ears I'd ever seen on goats.  

http://goatsindia.com./sale.htm


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 1, 2010)

The houseplant in the picture (the vine with heart-shaped leaves, not the shrub) is a pothos **Epipremnum aureum** and is toxic to pets and people.  I'm not sure how goats would tolerate it, but I'd be careful all the same.


----------



## Sweet Cheeks (Jan 2, 2010)

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/poison/Epiprau.htm

Above is a link regarding the "devil's ivy" as we call it.

Those goats have the longest ears.  They look like they'd get stepped on when bending down to eat or lay down.  SO CUTE

Tails are pretty long too.

I'd remove the cloth or collar from the necks so they don't accidently hang themselves on anything just to be safe.

Thanks so much for sharing the great pics and video.

I worked for an ophthalmologist and agree that they don't really look like they have pink eye because the conjunctiva doesn't look inflamed.


----------



## mossyStone (Jan 2, 2010)

Thoes are awesome goats. Ilove those ears..... Thank you so much for the pictures and youtube links.. 


Mossy Stone Farm Pygora's and Nubians


----------



## foxywench (Jan 3, 2010)

im REALY suprised there havent been at least a couple already imported into the US.

if i had the land, id absolutly bring a couple over, there STUNNING


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 3, 2010)

I have sent a couple emails out, and have heard back from a broker in Pakistan who deals in goats....if I manage this, who wants to reserve a kid in a few years???  
(I'll have to keep my first kid crops, you know!  I'm greedy that way!)
*crossing fingers*

Fahad, I'd still like to hear from you if you know of any ways to help me get some of these gorgeous goats here in the US.


----------



## freemotion (Jan 3, 2010)

Depends on the price....but I'd drive across the country to get a pair!

Don't tell dh.....


----------



## Goat of Many Colors (Jan 3, 2010)

Hey Roll Farms,

If you manage to get some over here will they have to stay in quarantine for a long amount of time?  I used to deal in plants and any that I imported had to be quarantined for 2 years before I could begin to propagate them to sell.


----------



## samplekasi (Jan 4, 2010)

Wow during the 80's and 90's when my grandparents raised ostriches the eggs would be in quarantine for 30 days after hatch ( my grandparents ran a Quarantine in Chicago ) and adults were I think 30 or 60 days from import date.


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 4, 2010)

I haven't gotten to the point of finding out quarantine lengths, but yes, there will be one.
Most places have been closed for the holidays, hoping to get a lot more info coming in today.


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 4, 2010)

Roll, I will need one of course.


----------



## chandasue (Jan 4, 2010)

Those are so cool!!! 

Welcome, Fahad! Thanks so much for sharing and best of luck with your new additions. Keep us posted.


----------



## foxywench (Jan 4, 2010)

couple of years gives me plenty of time to get my famr and all set up.
put me on the list for a couple of does!


----------



## fahad (Jan 4, 2010)

i'm so happy that you guys like my baby goats, they grow so quickly.


----------



## DonnaBelle (Jan 4, 2010)

I wonder if these goats will do well in our more wet/temperate climate??  A lot of goats have problems with worms because our worm loads here are so much heavier than in the Middle East.

This is something you guys might research before you get too excited.  I'd hate to have you go to all the money and trouble to get them here, only to have them not able to aclimatize to our wetter climate here in the states.

DonnaBelle


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 4, 2010)

Donna, I appreciate the words of caution, and it (parasite issue) is something I have considered.

I anticipate some adjustments / problems, and am planning on being vigilant w/ FAMACHA and fecals, pasture rotation, etc.

I'm not going into this w/ my eyes wide shut, I've been around the pasture a time or 20....

Part of my plan to "breed the better goat" is continuing to breed specifically for parasite resistance.  We live in a pretty swampy area in the spring, and we have some goats we haven't dewormed in years...Those are my 'foundation stock', regardless of pretty udders or muscling (in the meat breeds).  
I start w/ hardy and build from there, because a pretty udder attatched to a puny goat does me no good.

I'm not going to NOT try, though, just because it may be difficult....I love a challenge.


----------



## cmjust0 (Jan 5, 2010)

I must have one.  

No wait, two..  

I must have a pair of Kamoris and a pair of Golden Geurnseys...  I mean, is that too much to ask?  I certainly don't think so.


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 5, 2010)

Well, kids, let's don't count our Kamori goats just yet....
Most of the brokers I've contacted don't want to "bother" with less than 100 animals.  I don't have the room or the desire to take on that many.

Fahad has graciously offered to see if he can assist me on a smaller scale....so I'm not giving up hope, but I am discouraged.

*crossing my fingers*


----------



## helmstead (Jan 5, 2010)

I just want some frozen semen and eggs!  We can do embryo transfer!


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 5, 2010)

You'll have to handle that'n for me, Kate....
We let the goats do all that for us here, LOL.


----------



## Goatzilla (Jan 5, 2010)

But................., and it's a big but here, but what if someone did have the room, and brought 100 of these goats in. Let's say that it cost 30,000.00 or so to pull it off. With 80 or 90 does and 10 or 20 bucks, how long would it take to recoup the initial 30k by selling offspring from these goats? I can see the kids selling easily for 750 to 1000 each. It would be pretty easy to put 50 kids on the ground in the first year. The demand for these goats would be insane, and like a pyramid scheme, the first few breeders for the first few years would cash in LARGE. These goats could be the Black Copper Marans of the goat world. In 3 years time, gross sales could hit 6 figures.

Just havin' fun and thinking out loud here, but hey, I can remember it wasn't too long ago that there were people paying 10,000 bucks a shot for stinkin' EMUS!!


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 5, 2010)

I agree it sounds great in theory...
But I don't want them as an investment / business opportunity.  I just don't have enough 'oomph' to put up the fences, take care of them, etc.

AND...if they got here and couldn't survive (either parasites or the cold or if some "American" goat bug decimated them)....well, I'd be out all that money.  
I'm not going to push a 'product' that won't make it, and take other people's hard-earned money for something that could be dead in 3 months.

I want a few for pets and to cross to my boers and Nubs, just to play with the genetics, take them back to where they were before they were 'improved' by Europeans.

If they do well (I mean survival, not sales) THEN I might consider getting some more.  But I don't want to take on more than I can handle in an endeavor that might be destined to fail.


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 6, 2010)

Well, according to APHIS / USDA....it cannot be done.  :/

Pakistan isn't certified free of Scrapie or Foot and Mouth, so the US will not allow importation of live animals.

I asked about embryos / ova / semen, and the State Vet I spoke to said that's not even allowed, since there's no protocol for it....I'd have to pay for an APHIS vet to go to Pakistan and supervise the collection of the samples.

I am so disappointed right now....but I want to say a big THANK YOU to Fahad, he had everything worked out on his end....the US Govt. put the wall up that I slammed into.

(Don't get me wrong, I am glad we have precautions in place...I just wish there were some way around them....*sigh*)


----------



## Goat of Many Colors (Jan 6, 2010)

Sorry about being able to import.  Is Pakistan the only place with those goats with amazing colors and ears?


----------



## fahad (Jan 6, 2010)

Don't be sad ppl. Some day they'll clear Pakistan from the disease list n then you can have all the Kamoris you want. Till then all of you are invited to come n play with my goats in Pakistan.


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 7, 2010)

Bummer!


----------



## mully (Jan 7, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Well, according to APHIS / USDA....it cannot be done.  :/
> 
> Pakistan isn't certified free of Scrapie or Foot and Mouth, so the US will not allow importation of live animals.
> 
> ...


What about Canada...import a pair to another country that will allow importation then bread the pair and export the kids to the US... just thinking out loud


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 7, 2010)

Canada's import laws pretty much mimic ours....and according to Aphis, Australia and NZ are the only countries I can import from...and they don't have any Kamori.  
I've emailed Langston U, the research dept....seeing if they can offer any input / ideas.  
The prof I emailed grew up in S. Asia, he might be more willing to help, I hope.
I don't wanna give up....My husband says I'm gonna end up being on the FBI's watch list for being a pain in the govt.'s butt....


----------



## fahad (Jan 7, 2010)

I logged in to write that i've heard a lot of Pakistani goats are exported to and bred in many of the developed middle eastern countries . . But i just read only Australia and NZ.

Very strict laws you have in the US,  its good in a way for you guys. You dont want  your herd falling sick cos of some imported germ.


----------



## mully (Jan 7, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I don't wanna give up....My husband says I'm gonna end up being on the FBI's watch list for being a pain in the govt.'s butt....


Maybe the FBI would be willing to help, unless they think it is some threat to homeland security


----------



## samplekasi (Jan 7, 2010)

I think they actually need to be in the middle of a terrorist attack before they actually act upon any true attacks to Homeland security


----------

