# multiple births



## haviris (Jun 1, 2009)

Something I've wondered and I once did a search on it and couldn't find the answer. 

If cows had multiples, more then twins, are there are heifers and bulls, are the heifers freemartins?


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 1, 2009)

Triplets are rare and even rarer yet if they all live. Usually they get tangled up in the umbilical cord and strangle. But, if they live, I would imagine that a heifer would have the same chances of being normal or a free martin as a set of twins. Not all heifers born in a heifer/bull twinning are free martins.


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## wynedot55 (Jun 1, 2009)

if a heifer is born in  a set of triplelets.the odds are that she is freemartin.but there are those rare cases where she will be a breedable heifer.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 1, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> if a heifer is born in  a set of triplelets.the odds are that she is freemartin.but there are those rare cases where she will be a breedable heifer.


That's what they say about twins. We've had a couple sets of twins that were one of each and the heifers have bred no problem.


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## haviris (Jun 1, 2009)

Would it make much difference if it was two heifers and one bull?

There is a cow here in Arkansas that has always had multiple births, something like 9 pregnancies, 4 sets of trips, and 5 sets of twins, raising all but 3. She rolled on one of her first (twins), a bear got one of the seconds (twin), and she lost one of the last trips, but I don't know/remember why.

I've seen a few cases of quads, and just wondered how that worked w/ the freemartins. We've only had one set of boy/girl twins and ours was a freemartin.


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## wynedot55 (Jun 1, 2009)

for the heifers tobe breeders they really need tobe all heifers.


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## Imissmygirls (Jun 1, 2009)

I was always taught that it had to do with male fetus's hormones influencing the female fetus in very early pregnancy.  Apparently there is a very delicate time were a slight hormonal influence has very lasting repercussions.
Obviously, if it is such a delicate balance, sometimes it swings one way or another and that gives you the degrees of freemartin or not.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 1, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> for the heifers tobe breeders they really need tobe all heifers.


Then, may I ask, how you explain our sets? Reba was a twin to a bull and had many lactations. I can't remember the name of the other one--their birth wasn't so marked as Reba's and her brother's.


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## wynedot55 (Jun 1, 2009)

weve never kept a heifer twin from a bull  set.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 1, 2009)

A lot of people don't. We kept them and not had any free martins. Others keep them and end up with only free martins. Just the luck of the draw.


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## Imissmygirls (Jun 1, 2009)

or.... Kitty has figured out the secret of hormones that swings the odds in her favor!  You could make $$ on that if you'd sell it!


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## jhm47 (Jun 2, 2009)

Approximately 90% of heifer/bull twins will be freemartens.  I find quite a few that are FM's in my breeding business.  Some ranchers claim that the heifer was definitely NOT a twin.  However, it seems that occasionally they start out as twins in utero, and the bull dies after it has contaminated the heifer.  This is quite rare, but it does happen.  I have had 3 sets of twins this year, and two of them were bull/heifer sets.  I haven't checked the heifers yet to see if they are normal or freemartens.  I use the "pencil test" to check them (this will set off a lot of questions about the test) when they are small, and palpate them when they are larger.

I really like to keep heifer twins as replacements, since they do not get quite as big as singles when mature.  They also seem to have a tendency to have twins as cows.  I have one cow that has just had her 5th set of twins.  She has earned her keep, since a couple years ago, she raised twin heifer calves that weighed 530 and 560 lbs at weaning.  That's nearly 1100 lbs of calf without creep feed.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 2, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> I use the "pencil test" to check them (this will set off a lot of questions about the test) when they are small, and palpate them when they are larger.


And I went and dug up the answer from a previous thread.


			
				jhm47 said:
			
		

> Whichever object that is chosen, you would insert it into the suspect heifer/cow's female orifice.  In a freemartin, it will only go about 3-6 inches, and then you would hit a "dead end".  In a normal animal, you should be able to go at least twice that distance.  A freemartin has no uterus or ovaries, thus, the reproductive tract ends at the urethra.  I have found many of these cattle in my business of AI.


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## haviris (Jun 2, 2009)

The people w/ the one cow that threw all the multiples kept a heifer from the second set of twins, and she only ever had singles!

Our twin cow has only had singles, so did her sister last I knew, I'd love some twins if they'd all be heifers! (although I can't remember our cow ever having anything but bulls)


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## Imissmygirls (Jun 2, 2009)

Just like in some human families, twins can run in cow families.  
I think it is important to differentiate between identical and fraternal twins.  Some cows tend to drop fraternal twins frequently: they just ovulate two eggs at once.  Since none of us bother to examine the placentas, it's hard to tell if twins of angus and solid color animals are identical or fraternal.  With spots, it's an easier guess if the two look different or are of opposite sexes.
jhm, twins in beefers may mature smaller, but dairy twins well grown don't seem to mature any smaller than singles.
Overall, I have always been told carrying and birthing twins is harder on the cow than a single, just like in humans. I do know that dairy farmers are more particular about  being near during birthing if they suspect twins.  Too may things can happen when 8 legs get tangled up.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 2, 2009)

According to one vet I talked to cows do not have identical twins, as a rule. Even when they are the same sex, they tend to be faternal.


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## Imissmygirls (Jun 2, 2009)

Looking back on the twins I've known, I'd tend to agree with the vet, Kitty. Most were obviously fraternal.
But then again, how often does ANYONE examine a placenta!


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## Thewife (Jun 2, 2009)

Ok, my memory ain't doing too hot, remember I am holding my breath for some pictures of baby beefmasters.

Anyway, a hundred years ago we had kept 4 or 5 heifers for replacements. All of them had twins almost every year. They were mostly simmental/holstien cross, I don't recall any of them looking a like! One even had a black white face and a mostly white with red spots one year! If she had not calved in the barn, in a pen, I would have thought she stole some one elses calf!
I had one of them bred Brahma, she had a single heaifer, but it turned out to be a freemartin.
I can think of a couple of heifers out of them cows, that had twins a few times too.
We also had another cow that always gave us twins. The one year she had a single heifer, I got her to adopt an orphan( I think she figured she was supposed to have 2 calves) That sinlge heifer had a few sets of twins too!


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## GrassFarmerGalloway (Jun 2, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

> Triplets are rare and even rarer yet if they all live. Usually they get tangled up in the umbilical cord and strangle. But, if they live, I would imagine that a heifer would have the same chances of being normal or a free martin as a set of twins. Not all heifers born in a heifer/bull twinning are free martins.


Just as an interesting story, someone in my area had triplet heifer angus cows born on his farm.  They all survived.  :/ Life is strange, and cool.


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## haviris (Jun 3, 2009)

I've also always heard they can't have identical. Our twin heifers looked identical! They were mixed bred, simbrah dad and mixed mom. They were both Charcoal gray colored, w/ white markings on their bellies. Never could tell them apart. We only ever had one other calf that color and shade (had one other darkish gray w/ a white face, but different shade then these). Don't know that they were identical, but they sure looked alike! And they grew to be good sized cows, the one we still have is in her teens.


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