# English Shepherd Q's



## she-earl (Sep 27, 2011)

Are ES car-chasers like say Shelties?  We live at a crossroads so I am concerned about that.  Would an intruder be reluctant to proceed against an ES versus a larger dog?  We had an middle-of-the-night visitor once.  We have dairy cows, sheep, chickens and calves.  I don't want a dog that will bite first and then bark so to speak.  It gives me a sense of security when I am out working.  I have thought about LGD but we haven't had a predator problem so don't know if that is best or not.  Does anyone know of any breeders?  What has your experience been with them?  What is the cost of getting an ES puppy?


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## carolinagirl (Sep 27, 2011)

There's a great thread on the homesteading forum right now about English Shepherds.  Here;s a link.   http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=414155

One thing you need to be aware of though is an English Shepherd is not a livestock guardian breed, it's a herding breed.  You really should not leave herding breeds alone with livestock because they tend to run them instead of watching them.


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## goodhors (Sep 27, 2011)

Lot of hair to deal with.  It can pick up brush, harbor various dog bugs, and you won't even know.
Rumor only, but heard the ES need to have the eyes protected by leaving the long hair on.  Seems
they didn't tolerate the sunshine well if bright.  Old rumor someone told me, not sure if it was true or not.  

You may want to hunt for working bloodlines, not just show stock.  Some working breeds have got the "working"
part bred out to be show animals.  Cocker Spanial and Irish Setter come to mind.  Originally both 
were excellent hunting dogs, but seldom used for than since the 1950's.  Rough coated Collie was also
a herding dog, but not these days.  These three are all hair now, mostly just pets.


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## watchdogps (Sep 28, 2011)

goodhors said:
			
		

> Lot of hair to deal with.  It can pick up brush, harbor various dog bugs, and you won't even know.
> Rumor only, but heard the ES need to have the eyes protected by leaving the long hair on.  Seems
> they didn't tolerate the sunshine well if bright.  Old rumor someone told me, not sure if it was true or not.
> 
> ...


You're thinking of OES - Old English Sheepdogs - The OP is asking about English Shepherds which look a lot like Border Collies. I know a couple people with ES and they all adore them. 
The car chasing concern makes me think this is an unfenced area (or at least not dog fenced), which rules out LGDs as they tend to wander. ES would be more likely to stay home, and would be territorial but would not be a true LGD


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## she-earl (Sep 28, 2011)

We don't have trouble with animal predators after our chickens and sheep.  They are in a fenced area.  I am more concerned about people coming around at night.  We have had that on occasion - prowling around, stealing gas, etc.  We can tie a dog up when we are not around or at night if needed.  We have a Bernese that is over six years old.  He is showing his age and the about the only time he gets tied is when we are moving heifers.  We used to let him come along but he had some health issues this past winter so we have limited his activity in this area.  I would like a dog that is good around animals, sounds an alarm when sensing something is amiss, and makes an intruder feel like leaving the premises.


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## watchdogps (Sep 28, 2011)

she-earl said:
			
		

> We don't have trouble with animal predators after our chickens and sheep.  They are in a fenced area.  I am more concerned about people coming around at night.  We have had that on occasion - prowling around, stealing gas, etc.  We can tie a dog up when we are not around or at night if needed.  We have a Bernese that is over six years old.  He is showing his age and the about the only time he gets tied is when we are moving heifers.  We used to let him come along but he had some health issues this past winter so we have limited his activity in this area.  I would like a dog that is good around animals, sounds an alarm when sensing something is amiss, and makes an intruder feel like leaving the premises.


So, I'm still not clear, is the dog going to be in a fenced area or basically just expected to stay on premises?


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## she-earl (Sep 29, 2011)

Basically to just stay on the premises.  I would like the dog to be able to go where I go.


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## carolinagirl (Sep 29, 2011)

she-earl said:
			
		

> Basically to just stay on the premises.  I would like the dog to be able to go where I go.


that's a problem.  The willingness to never leave the property seems to be a very individual thing, not a breed trait.  MOST dogs will not confine themselves to the property without a fence.  I have had many dogs through the years and only now have a dog who never leaves the yard and she is a pit bull.  She is inside at night and the front gate is locked when we leave.  It's unfair to expect a dog to stay home.  If she does not, she will be hit by a car or shot by a neighbor who does not appreciate my dog on their property.


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## watchdogps (Sep 29, 2011)

carolinagirl said:
			
		

> she-earl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gotta agree. I am personally not willing to risk my dogs life by allowing them to be unsupervised and unfenced. Def no LGDs for you. I suppose if you have some huge acreage, it might be more feasible that a dog would stay home, but you mention a nearby crossroads, so obviously that isnt the case. Anyway, breeds that are considered easily trained will generally be better about respecting boundaries if you teach them, but you have to teach them, and I still wouldnt trust them alone about it


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## goodhors (Sep 29, 2011)

You are correct, I was speaking of Old English Sheepdogs.  Didn't know there was a plain English Sheepdog!

I would agree  with the folks above.  That an unfenced, unsupervised dog is more likely to take themselves 
for a walk.  Kind of boring at home with no people.  And the smarter the dog, the faster they go looking for 
entertainment.  You can work on training them to your property lines, but if you aren't watching, the dog 
will probably ignore things, go cruising.

Some folks have good luck with the radio fences, but you have to stay on top of the collar batteries to keep 
them working.  Another factor is if collar malfunctions.  My friend had one on her Pug who went out in the rain
and the collar burned his neck when things got wet!  She had used the collar a couple years, so maybe it got
old, but dog had a very severe wound from the collar.  Until this incident, she loved the radio collar for keeping 
him home.  She had to resort to tying him up after the burn problem, said she wouldn't have the collar on him again.

I have a fenced yard and fenced acreage, to keep my dogs home.  You buy, train, and like your dog, so you have
to keep them safe at home with some sort of containment system.  Big, guardy dogs are SCARY to meet on the road
walking or riding a bike or horse.  You just don't know how they will react, ignore you or come after you!!  I have had both 
happen to us.  Animal control here takes dog menaces VERY seriously and is RIGHT OUT to see you about them.  As the 
dog owner you have responsibilities to people using the public road, responsibility to the dog to keep it from hurting itself.


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