# Help me choose a goat breed?



## Bluebonnet (Mar 2, 2014)

I would like to add a goat to my list of plantation animals, but I am having trouble finding information on which breeds might be right for me.

I am seeking a breed that was known to have been used during the War Between The States or at least one that was in America prior to 1850.

When you Google such goats, you turn up with goats being a term for someone in a military school or the term 'scapegoat'.

If no goats meet this criteria, are there any rare or heritage breeds from either America or Germany?


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## Baymule (Mar 2, 2014)

Spanish goats. Go to the ALBC and look them up. There are several Texas ranches where they have remained uncrossed with other breeds.


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## Bluebonnet (Mar 2, 2014)

Baymule said:


> Spanish goats. Go to the ALBC and look them up. There are several Texas ranches where they have remained uncrossed with other breeds.


 
The picture of the one on the ALBC website is so ugly, it is almost cute.

I'm concerned about the horns. Do the females have them too?

Must they be kept in groups like sheep or do they do well on their own?

What about donkeys? Maybe I missed the section for them too, but I want my plantation to be as complete as possible.

I'm drawing a blank at what functions these animals could serve. Goats can give milk for soap making, but outside of that, I am not sure.

Do they make for good companion animals?


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## Baymule (Mar 2, 2014)

There are different strains of Spanish goats, depending on what ranch they've been allowed to evolve on over the generations. I think there is a ranch where most of them are black, with a cashmere undercoat. You would just have to do your research on them, what could be more Civil War era than Spanish goats?

They usually are derisively referred to as brush goats and very little value has been placed on them. Thankfully a few people have recognized their hardiness and kept them as they required little care. Texas tough. That's what I'm talking about! The serve the function of meat, hides and don't know why you couldn't milk them too. They are not a dairy animal, but if you selected for milk producers, over time, then you would have goats that gave decent milk and could survive on very little. yes, they have horns, the better to fend off predators.

Catalina goats are Spanish goats and are hunted on exotic game ranches because of their unusual horns. Maybe what Spanish goats need is YOU. You are making it your life's mission to bring awareness to heritage breeds and recognize their value. So, there ya' go. 

Oh, if you want a donkey, I have a standard size tri-colored jack I will give you. I was going to raise mules, but life has got in the way. My mother (91 in 2 weeks ) lives with us and I am not able to spend time with my horses. Jake is in a pen and I feel bad for him, but I don't want any more foals. Jake is 12 years old and distrustful because his first owner used a hot shot on him and his second owner penned him up in a mud hole and only brought him out to breed a mare. Jake had rain rot, sores, hooves curled up and splayed out, skinny and pitiful when we got him. It took over 2 years to get his feet straightened up again. He has been a special challenge.


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## Bluebonnet (Mar 2, 2014)

I am unaware of how goats and donkeys were used during the war, but they were surely there. I'm mainly into the ancestry research and trying to identify persons in photographs that have not yet been named. That and regimental histories. The story of animals in the war would make for a good book, since the animals certainly played an important role.

I was not aware that you could eat goats as a regular meat and not as something you would eat only if you were desperate and starving.

I do not need too much milk, since I prefer sheep milk, just a little bit for the occasional soap bar. However, that is hardly enough purpose for a farm animal. I wonder if there are goat cheeses that could be made?

How long do donkeys live? 12 years sounds like quite the old animal.

I am sorry you are not able to spend time with your horses, but at least your mother is still going strong at soon to be 91!


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## Baymule (Mar 2, 2014)

Donkeys have a longer life span than horses. www.lovelongears.com Civil War era, at least in Texas they were mainly the mount of poor people, also used as plow animals by the very poor. Donkeys eat very little and can thrive on what a horse or ox would starve to death on.

I have a cremello QH gelding named Joe that is 25 years old and still rides. Only 2 speeds though-slow and stop. Also have a Tennessee Walker mare that is 27 and still "booger hunts" when I ride her. She has dumped me a few times, like when suddenly she jumps sideways 15 feet and I am suspended in mid air........but not for long.....SPLAT! LOL these two will die with me. And I will grieve.

Goat cheese is quite good, BYH has a very active goat forum and they can tell you much more than I ever could. I have eaten goat meat, mostly BBQ'ed and it is good. Sure don't have to be starving!


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## Bluebonnet (Mar 2, 2014)

There were plenty of poor in the Civil War, so that would be accurate. Over 27 years?! That is incredible longevity.

I know there are some in the U.K. where you can ride them by the seashore. I was hoping I might find a breed that could be suitable for some light riding or maybe a petting zoo type thing.


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## Baymule (Mar 2, 2014)

riding donkeys can be standard size, but only for light weight people. Even mammoth donkeys are not for McDonald's fed hefties. Mammoth donkeys can be 16 hands high! If you are going to offer rides to people, you have to have some stout stock available. Chunks, or draft crosses are used for the medium duty. Insurance wise, I would only let people ride in the wagon. That way you have more control. A person is intelligent, people are stupid. Why should you have to pay for somebody else's stupidity?

I think I would have a few donkeys, just for eye candy and your own use.
 Petting zoo would be the mini or Sicilian donkeys, they are tiny little things.


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## Bluebonnet (Mar 2, 2014)

Baymule said:


> riding donkeys can be standard size, but only for light weight people. Even mammoth donkeys are not for McDonald's fed hefties. Mammoth donkeys can be 16 hands high! If you are going to offer rides to people, you have to have some stout stock available. Chunks, or draft crosses are used for the medium duty. Insurance wise, I would only let people ride in the wagon. That way you have more control. A person is intelligent, people are stupid. Why should you have to pay for somebody else's stupidity?
> 
> I think I would have a few donkeys, just for eye candy and your own use.
> Petting zoo would be the mini or Sicilian donkeys, they are tiny little things.


 
I would never let others ride my animals. I've never ridden a donkey and I weigh around a buck twenty.

I am of the opinion that letting others around your animals, for biosecurity reasons, is a bad idea. That and I have read the horror stories of violent persons abusing animals and I do not want to put mine at risk, particularly if they are endangered.


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## Baymule (Mar 2, 2014)

Bluebonnet said:


> I would never let others ride my animals. I've never ridden a donkey and I weigh around a buck twenty.
> 
> I am of the opinion that letting others around your animals, for biosecurity reasons, is a bad idea. That and I have read the horror stories of violent persons abusing animals and I do not want to put mine at risk, particularly if they are endangered.


Yeah, back to that people are stupid thing.......
donkeys have no withers, their backs are straight. I have ridden donkeys bareback and when they tired of me, over their head I went! haha! Mostly I had donkeys for fun, pets or pasture guards running with the cows. They hate varmits, dogs and will stomp them.


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## NaturesPace (Mar 2, 2014)

Interesting thread. I want to make sure that BBonnet understands that you can't have just one goat. They are herd animals and need at least one companion.

Good luck. I would love a few long ears hear, but that's in the far  future.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 2, 2014)

Goat meat is eaten all over the world. Just not common in the US, that is changing very quickly though. Beef has been the meat for the US. 
Ever seen the prices in the market for goat?  Tenderloins- about $18 per pound.

Most choose goats by either dairy or meat. There are many breeds, although I haven't a clue about your specific requirements.


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## Bluebonnet (Mar 2, 2014)

Southern by choice said:


> Goat meat is eaten all over the world. Just not common in the US, that is changing very quickly though. Beef has been the meat for the US.
> Ever seen the prices in the market for goat?  Tenderloins- about $18 per pound.
> 
> Most choose goats by either dairy or meat. There are many breeds, although I haven't a clue about your specific requirements.


 
My requirements are for reenacting purposes, soap making, cheese making and definitely not for eating.

When it comes to animals, I prefer no-kill where possible. The only meats I intend to keep are chickens, after 2+ laying years, rabbits, after 2+ years and sheep, mutton in the event of the rams and only if I can not sell them or if keeping them is not an option.

My geese are for eggs and so are my quail. Of the other animals I am preparing to get, my turkey and ducks will be for eggs as well. My dairy cows will be for milk. I prefer to keep sheep for milk and fleece. I intend to keep pigs and every part will be used for all kinds of goodness.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 2, 2014)

I think the Lamancha is the "oldest dairy breed that originated out in CA/Mexico" I am not sure but worth looking into. The Lamancha is an excellent dairy goat breed. Highly intelligent, sweet, gives lots of sweet milk. The are unique because they have "no ears". 
Here is a link with my Lamancha Doe and her kid a mini- mancha ( Lamancha bred to a Nigerian Dwarf Buck)

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/change-my-avatar.27648/

you can click on the pic to see it better.


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 3, 2014)

http://www.albc-usa.org/cpl/goats.html

American Livestock Breed Conservancy would be your best bet. The attached link gives some information.  According to this there were no *truly distinct* breeds in the US before the mid 1800's.

"The history of goats in North America began with the arrival of Spanish explorers and settlers in the 1500s. English settlers brought a few goats to New England beginning in the 1600s. These two types accounted for most of the goats found in North America until the time of the Civil War. These goats had little market value and were never recognized as distinct breeds."

It mentions breeds being imported then, but only mentions mohair's by name.  None of the ADGA dairy goat breeds were here before the early 1900's.  La Mancha's are the only American breed of dairy goat but they weren't around before the 1950's.


If you contacted them, they could probably give you more information.

But, like someone else said, a Spanish or Spanish cross would probably be most like what you would have seen then.


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## cybercat (Mar 3, 2014)

Cashmere would fit your bill beside lamancha.  Cashmere is not a breed perse they are trying to make it one.  They are spanish descent though.


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## Bluebonnet (Mar 3, 2014)

OneFineAcre said:


> http://www.albc-usa.org/cpl/goats.html
> 
> American Livestock Breed Conservancy would be your best bet. The attached link gives some information.  According to this there were no *truly distinct* breeds in the US before the mid 1800's.
> 
> ...


 
Lack of documentation in the historical record is such a pain sometimes.

I am in the process of writing some regimental histories and I will make a trip to the Museum Of The Confederacy to view their photograph collection. Perhaps I might be able to locate some photographs of goats or other camp animals.


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## Scooby308 (Mar 4, 2014)

Bluebonnet, I am sure you know about the reenacting forums: The Authentic Campaigner and The Civil War Reenactors Forum. On the AC there was a sub group that was specifically for heritage breeds and crops. Hank Trent and Terre Lawson frequent those forums and are civilian reenactors of the highest caliber. They may be able to point you the direction you seek.


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## Scooby308 (Mar 5, 2014)

I completely forgot to mention Beverly Simpson who deal primarily in livestock. She is also on both forums.


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