# loose mineral or mineral block



## MommaBugg (Mar 14, 2012)

should pregnant goats have access to loose minerals if they have a mineral block? or is the block enough for her?

She has not had any BoSe shots, all her selenium has been from mineral blocks up until I got her, and I have a block in her pen with her.

Same with the buck.. do they need both loose and block minerals?


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 14, 2012)

depends on how deficient your area is. If all I did was a mineral block, I would be having a lot of weak legged kids.  there is a selenium map on the internet that shows the amount of selenium in different parts of the country, someone had posted the link on here a while back.


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## MommaBugg (Mar 14, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> depends on how deficient your area is. If all I did was a mineral block, I would be having a lot of weak legged kids.  there is a selenium map on the internet that shows the amount of selenium in different parts of the country, someone had posted the link on here a while back.


yeah I have that link.. it shows my area to be 0.12-0.15 ppm. Thats almost the lowest numbers shown on the chart. 

I bought some selenium & vitamin E gel from Caprine Supply, should I give either of them some paste? Or should I just buy the loose minerals and add it to their diet, or both?

Should I give the babies some of the paste when theyre born? I also bought lamb and kid paste, probiotic plus paste, achieve paste, and vitamin A, D, E & B12 gel.

For anyone else who happens to read through this and would like the link to the U.S. selenium chart here it is:

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/se/usa.html


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## Mills1950 (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd have to say loose minerals would be better than a block----many blocks don't contain ammonium chloride which your buck needs also I doubt  they are able to get enough of what they need from a hard block----it's important even to read the nutritional information on the loose minerals--- I was shocked when I saw that Purina loose minerals fo goats contains no ac!!!   That's why I use Manna Pro


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## SDBoerGoats (Mar 14, 2012)

Every goat mentor I have talked to and my vet says mineral blocks for goats are a waste as they can't possibly lick enough minerals to do them any good. So I feed Sweetlix Meatmaker, it's loose. I did NOT know that about Purina, and I have gotten that when the feed store was out of Meatmaker. Oh I live in a selenium deficient area too, and have been advised to give my pregnant does 1cc of selenium 30 days before they kid. One the 2 does I did not have the Bo Se for, and couldn't get it, both of them had kids with weak hind legs. And one doe retained her placenta. I have also used the Selenium/Vit E gel and the does I used that on had beautiful kids with no problems at all. So I don't know if you have to use the injection. The gel is easier to get, does anyone know which is the best to use?


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 14, 2012)

Bo-se (injectable version) for sure works, and works quickly. I wouldn't want to raise goats with out it. We use loose goat minerals and keep them out all the time and still do 2 shots of Bo-se a year on our adult animal. One shot before we breed them and one 30 days before they kid. And if I am not sure when they are going to kid or I give the bo-se too soon, I give it again 30 days later, if they still haven't kidded. I personally, think it makes a huge difference in the strength of the kids.  I have never used the gel, we don't have any problem going to the vet in town and just buying injectable  from them. $16.00 a bottle for us. Worth every penny. 

Oh and sweetlix meatmaker is  a fantastic loose mineral, our co-op doesn't offer it any longer so we went with the brand that they have been recommending and we are happy with it. But I really like the sweet-lix brand.  We try to support our co-op as much as possible, because they are big supporters of the 4H programs in the area. 



I


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## Pearce Pastures (Mar 14, 2012)

My goats love their block!  They don't actually lick these, like some animals might like a salt block, but rather bite off bits of it.  It saves on waste and having to constantly change the loose minerals out.  But some goats may not like them (silly things are so fussy sometimes.  I do not have a Selenium issue in our area however, and if we did, I would guess I'd still use the block but seek a vet that would prescribe BoSe to use as 20kids does.


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## elevan (Mar 14, 2012)

Loose is best.

I do offer both but it's because I have a mixed herd of multiple species.

_Oh, and that selenium / vitamin E gel is worthless imo._


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## redtailgal (Mar 14, 2012)

I offer both to my guys and gals.  I use sweetlix loose, and they will at times scoop it up.  I also offer a AC enriched block, but thats mostly to provide my wethers with something to chew on besides the barn!  lol


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## Goatherd (Mar 15, 2012)

MommaBugg, here is a site that has an excellent article concerning goat nutrition and it addresses much of what you are asking.  What I personally like is the reference to and endorsement of sea kelp meal which is a favorite supplement of mine.  It also addresses many other aspects of goat nutrition including your mineral question.

What I have found is that many goats are not particularly fond of loose minerals.  Sea kelp meal has a multitude of vitamins, minerals and amino acids that do not replace loose minerals but come very close to providing them what minerals would directly.  I can say that seven out of seven of my goats will eat kelp meal passionately and never turn their noses from it! 
I don't think sea kelp meal is as popular as a supplement for goats because many folks are not aware that it exists and how beneficial it can be.

http://www.kaeco.com/educational-articles/goat/115-nutritional-supplementation-for-goats


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## MommaBugg (Mar 15, 2012)

I am wondering if  should go ahead and give my pregnant doe a dose of this selenium E gel.. I have no idea when she will kid.. I was given two conflicting due dates for her.. I was first told late march to mid april, then the breeder called and said she could go any day now... I think she just wanted to get rid of her.. So she could kid in 2-4 weeks... she has a small udder still and though she is big herself she just doesnt look like she could go any sooner, but I am no expert.

Would it do any harm to give her the selenium gel even if she kids a week later? I just dont want sick weak kids.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 15, 2012)

no harm at all, infact you could give it to her now and if she doesn't kid give it to her again in 2 or 3 weeks, the gel isn't as  potent as the injectable and way harder to overdose.


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## MommaBugg (Mar 15, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> no harm at all, infact you could give it to her now and if she doesn't kid give it to her again in 2 or 3 weeks, the gel isn't as  potent as the injectable and way harder to overdose.


THANKS! I will be doing that today! So the babies will get some gel right after theyre born? or wait a few days?


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 15, 2012)

MommaBugg said:
			
		

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I only do the bo-se shots, if the kids appear weak legged in any way. If they are strong and healthy I wait until weaing, and then give a bo-se shot. But I know there are lots of farms that give extra selenium to all their new borns. So I guess that would be up to you.


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## SDBoerGoats (Mar 15, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> Bo-se (injectable version) for sure works, and works quickly. I wouldn't want to raise goats with out it. We use loose goat minerals and keep them out all the time and still do 2 shots of Bo-se a year on our adult animal. One shot before we breed them and one 30 days before they kid. And if I am not sure when they are going to kid or I give the bo-se too soon, I give it again 30 days later, if they still haven't kidded. I personally, think it makes a huge difference in the strength of the kids.  I have never used the gel, we don't have any problem going to the vet in town and just buying injectable  from them. $16.00 a bottle for us. Worth every penny.
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> Oh and sweetlix meatmaker is  a fantastic loose mineral, our co-op doesn't offer it any longer so we went with the brand that they have been recommending and we are happy with it. But I really like the sweet-lix brand.  We try to support our co-op as much as possible, because they are big supporters of the 4H programs in the area.
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I so agree with you about the Bo-se injectable. We always had a bottle around for years when we were training horses all the time, so many were deficient. I called a friend who raises goats too and she brought over 2 injections of Bo-se for me, I gave the little doeling a shot and you could almost see her hind leg getting stronger. She went from dragging a bum leg behind her to the next morning barely a sign of anything different. Today you can't tell which leg it was. I just bought a bottle last week, my vet charged $28! I am having trouble finding Sweetlix Meat Maker lately too, I am almost out and called the feed store I always get it from, and they are out and don't know when they'll get any in. I don't know what to use instead if they don't get it soon. They carry VigorTone but I looked online and the ingredients don't compare to Sweetlix. It only has 7.00 selenium and 425 Copper compared to Sweetlix which has 50 ppm Selenium and 1810 Copper. BIG difference!


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 15, 2012)

SDBoerGoats said:
			
		

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call around and try to find another feed store, Tractor supply store, or farm choice.  We are lucky we have a lot of choices, but maybe there is another store you could do business with. 
CArgill Right Now Onyx is a good one, if you can find a dealer in your area  http://www.cargill.com/feed/species/beef-cattle/Products/right-now-minerals/right-now-onyx/index.jsp
Ultralyx Is pretty good: http://www.ultralyx.com/products/Goats/f5_loose-minerals.aspx

  It sounds like you know what you are looking for as far as quality of mineral.


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## SDBoerGoats (Mar 15, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

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Thanks, I try 20K! I know raising horses all these years how important minerals and selenium are. The first person I bought my first doelings from told me about Sweetlix and told me it was the best goat mineral, he was really good at making sure I was given lots of good information. I have been able to buy 2 bags of it, and now it's gone! Looking online I saw that it was sold to Ultralyx, which appears to not be out here on the West Coast. I just talked to one of my feed dealers, who went to the warehouse to read labels for me, and it looks like they one with the same copper and selenium amounts. I am on my way there now with my little tag and will see if this is close! If I fed myself as well as my dogs, horses and goats my hair might shine like theirs!


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## SDBoerGoats (Mar 15, 2012)

20K, just got back from the feed store and found a comparable goat mineral to Sweetlix! Made by CHS. Payback 16:8 Goat Mineral plus. Has almost identical ingredients, same copper and selenium. Boy was I happy. Picked up a couple of protein blocks while I was at it. This is the same company that makes the Boer Goat Developer that I have always fed too. Glad someone picked it up.


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## MommaBugg (Mar 16, 2012)

OK the best I could find at TSC was Producers Pride Range Minerals, It had the highest Se at 12.00 ppm, and the ONLY one with copper with 650.00 ppm. It is actually intended for cattle, but the Producers Pride minerals that had a goat head on it had NO copper and even less selenium. Though it also had a sheep head on it too, so I suppose thats why it contained no copper.. We are looking for better feed supply stores around here. But until we find better minerals, should I keep giving them a monthly dose of th Selenium + E paste?

What are the ideal numbers I should be looking for as far as Selenium and copper?


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 16, 2012)

It is labeled Co-op forage-master goat mineral for meat goats on pasture


the mineral we are using has 1,700 pppm min. and 2,100 ppm max. for copper 
and 80 ppm for selenium

The copper is in the form of copper lysine and copper sulfate
and the selenium is in the form of sodium selenite. 

There is a big warning on this product to not allow you goats to consume more than .31 ounces per head per day, because of the high amounts of selenium in it. 

We have been very happy with this product.


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## MommaBugg (Mar 16, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> It is labeled Co-op forage-master goat mineral for meat goats on pasture
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YAY! I  found a feed store that carries Sweetlix!! Its a little further drive but we planned on starting all of our shopping in the next town anyway. 

Now I had the lady read the selenium and copper amounts off the label. She told me *50ppm selenium *and 1750 *min and 1810 max copper*.. *Will I still need to supplement with the selenium paste?*

the paste only has * 500 IU vit E and 2.5 ppm selenium per 5ml dose *


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 16, 2012)

MommaBugg said:
			
		

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I still do selenium shots, or I get weak legged kids.  Not positive how the amounts of selenium convert.  Here is the product label, I give 1cc per 40lbs of body weight 30 days before they kid.    http://valleyvet.naccvp.com/index.php?m=product_view_basic&u=country&p=msds&id=1047025


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 16, 2012)

But with out doing blood levels, it is really just guessing how much they need. I just know that if I don't give it my does will have more kids with weak pasterns and ligaments.


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