# Pitbulls killed 200 goats



## Straw Hat Kikos (Apr 28, 2013)

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/04/26/deputies-searching-for-pit-bulls-that-killed-200-goats/

That stinks. Poor goats


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## alsea1 (Apr 28, 2013)

Thats awful. 
I certainly hope they round up the guilty dogs.
I read some of the comments on the article.
I myself am leary of this breed.  They are so powerful that if something goes wrong it really goes wrong.
Of course any dog that has not had the proper training can be a menace.
I am not a proponent of more government taking even more control, such as you need to prove you have the nec. skills and what not to own a dog.  But I say that if someones dog does damage to you or yours you should have complete and full right to shoot to kill.
No bull crap lawsuits afterwords.  Because if the dog was at home, he would not be shot now would it.


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (Apr 28, 2013)

The comments are pure BS. 

As the owner of 3 Pits, I find all the hate to be based completely on ignorance and media hype. Notice how many times they said "Pit Bull" in the article? The media is making them a villain, as they have been doing for years. If it was a positive Pit story, you'd hear the breed name once, if at all. But I digress...

Any breed, when loose and in a pack, has pack mentality. Yes, even Labs and Goldens, the "Family Dogs". Just had a friend of mine's Labs attack a fellow Lab. One started it, and the others jumped right in. "Pack attack" happens in dogs, wolves, and many other species.

Goats are prey animals. Most dogs have prey drive. Since the Pit Bull is a terrier, it has a high prey drive (usually). It's sad for the goats, yes, but you can't blame animals for being animals. Even household pets revert back to a feral state when left in the wild for some time.

With that said, any dog that enters my fence will leave with a bullet in it's head if it attacks my goats. It is our responsibility as owners to keep our animals safe. And as a pet owner, I take responsibility for keeping my 5 dogs inside and contained.


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## elevan (Apr 28, 2013)

This could be any breed of dogs in a wild pack situation.  "Pit bull" just makes it more sensational.  What an awful situation for that community to have to worry so much for their livestock and children, not to mention any adult who confronts them unarmed.


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## alsea1 (Apr 28, 2013)

The lesson to this is keep your dogs at home and do your best to train them.
Thats about all ya can do.
I agree. The press has become horrible at reporting non biased news.
Most newspapers are as bad as those rag papers at the check out stand.


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Apr 29, 2013)

Edited because I think I was grouchy earlier.


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## PendergrassRanch (Apr 29, 2013)

BlondeSquirrel04 said:
			
		

> The comments are pure BS.
> 
> As the owner of 3 Pits, I find all the hate to be based completely on ignorance and media hype. Notice how many times they said "Pit Bull" in the article? The media is making them a villain, as they have been doing for years. If it was a positive Pit story, you'd hear the breed name once, if at all. But I digress...
> 
> ...


Thank you. Finally someone with some sense.  

Just in case anyone else thinks all "pitbulls" are blood thirsty beasts.  

Mine sure isn't, he would sooner cuddle these goats to death than he would try to eat them.  





ANY DOG BREED in a pack is dangerous.  ANY dog with HIGH PREY DRIVE is dangerous.  A lone Husky caused quite a disturbance in my neighborhood recently, killed 5 of my birds, and 4 of my neighbors.  

JUDGE THE DEED NOT THE BREED.  

And for what its worth, a "pitbull" isn't even a breed. Its a general description of ANY number of bully looking breeds.  Could be a mix of anything with a big head.


Go ahead and test yourself!

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthebull/findpitbull_v3.html



As for these dogs that are causing this harm.  They should be shot.  Any dog that causes harm to my animals is a predator, not a pet.


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## TGreenhut (Apr 29, 2013)

Lets focus less on the breed of dogs and more on the act. I think it is absolutely terrible that this happened and I so feel for the poor goats and their owners. I wish it could have been prevented with people taking responsibility for their darn dogs.


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## Pearce Pastures (Apr 29, 2013)

That is so sad


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## Harbisgirl (Apr 30, 2013)

That area is a bad area - alot of crime and problems, including dog fighting. I think my husband is right, I think it was a dog fighting pack that got lose or was released for whatever reason. That would make sense why the majority of the dogs in the packs are Pits and why they are so aggressive. They aren't killing the goats and livestock for food - they aren't eating them. They are just killing them to kill them. Sounds like dog fighting training to me, but who knows.


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## SkyWarrior (May 5, 2013)

Pitbulls aren't a problem provided they are trained.  When dogs are allowed to run in a pack, they can be dangerous.

A friend of mine lost a goat to a small dog (less than 35 lbs) and a medium dog (less than 50 lbs).  A few years back, a wolf pack slaughtered 100 sheep here in Montana and hardly ate any of them.  When people realize that any dog, especially an untrained one, can be dangerous to livestock, we've made headway.  I don't trust my dogs with livestock, but I own a breed that has a high prey drive.  OTOH, I do trust my dogs with people, including children, provided they are supervised.


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## BHOBCFarms (May 24, 2013)

This whole "news" story seems fishy to me.... First, I am inclined to believe that the article is missing a lot of key information.  Was it 200 goats killed at one location in one incident, or is this an ongoing problem in a certain area/community, and is the pack comprised of all pitbulls, no pitbulls, some pitbulls?  Has anyone seen the pack in the act of goat killing or is this just a assumption, even the article says "Pack MAY be responsible for killing 200 goats."  What does that even mean?  Does it mean, the dog pack is in the area and they are assuming they killed all 200 goats?  Does it mean the pack has been seen in the act in one or more incidents, and they are extrapolating that the remaining goat deaths are from the dog pack?  Have they eliminated other predators from this equation?  If this was a one time incident, I am kind of surprised that someone had 200 goats and did not notice (for whatever reason), that a dog pack was savaging the goats, it would take some time for even 15 dogs to kill 200 goats, and likely there would have been some commotion.  

I guess my real point here is that news reporting (especially on the internet) is abominably bad nowadays, it's like they assume that the readers are idiots and won't notice how little care or time or effort they put into their articles, if you can call them that.


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## Southern by choice (May 24, 2013)

All I want to know is why someone would have 200 goats and not have an entire team of LGD's.


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (May 24, 2013)

BHOBCFarms said:
			
		

> This whole "news" story seems fishy to me.... First, I am inclined to believe that the article is missing a lot of key information.  Was it 200 goats killed at one location in one incident, or is this an ongoing problem in a certain area/community, and is the pack comprised of all pitbulls, no pitbulls, some pitbulls?  Has anyone seen the pack in the act of goat killing or is this just a assumption, even the article says "Pack MAY be responsible for killing 200 goats."  What does that even mean?  Does it mean, the dog pack is in the area and they are assuming they killed all 200 goats?  Does it mean the pack has been seen in the act in one or more incidents, and they are extrapolating that the remaining goat deaths are from the dog pack?  Have they eliminated other predators from this equation?  If this was a one time incident, I am kind of surprised that someone had 200 goats and did not notice (for whatever reason), that a dog pack was savaging the goats, it would take some time for even 15 dogs to kill 200 goats, and likely there would have been some commotion.
> 
> I guess my real point here is that news reporting (especially on the internet) is abominably bad nowadays, it's like they assume that the readers are idiots and won't notice how little care or time or effort they put into their articles, if you can call them that.


Yes!! Very strong points! 

Not to mention how hard it is to ID a breed, let alone a breed running wild in a pack. It could have been a whole pack of mutts, but then no one would read it because the media monster "pit bull" words are not mentioned!


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## BHOBCFarms (May 25, 2013)

BlondeSquirrel04 said:
			
		

> BHOBCFarms said:
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I also forgot to mention that if it is only goats being targeted, shouldn't they consider the possibility that this is the work of a Chupacabra?


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## woodsie (May 25, 2013)

Mine sure isn't, he would sooner cuddle these goats to death than he would try to eat them.  

[url]http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc364/drewski99/5C867E71-D118-45A2-A235-44B0A314B1F7-19502-000014309DCAF862_zpsc7ee1294.jpg[/url]

What a gorgeous boy you've got there! Look at the shine on that coat!


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## BarefootGoat (May 25, 2013)

Oooh that makes me mad. Pits are my FAVORITE breed, they are nothing more than big goofy teddy bears, our's sleeps, oh probably on average, about 19 hours a day. We have a little doeling living in the house right now, I get worried about him licking and cuddly her too much, same with the cats. He would never hurt a thing. I think about how I would be scared of a pit bull barking at me aggressively, but then I'm like "wait, I would be scared of any dog barking at me aggressively!" I hate it when people say "oh I can't believe you can turn a dog around like that", as if pits are born with a desire to kill human beings and other living things. I don't really believe that article, it's so short and gives so few details.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 25, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> All I want to know is why someone would have 200 goats and not have an entire team of LGD's.


*

X2! *


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## bonbean01 (May 25, 2013)

Training and raising pitbulls the right way is one thing...the two after my sheep and then me, got blasted by my shotgun...these pits were bred and trained and raised as fighting dogs...shortly after my encounter with them on my property, big local news...owner and others were busted for a dog fighting ring.  I will not be taken out by any dog on my own property without defense, nor any of my critters.  Really horrible that people do this for money...so very, very cruel.  They all got jail time.  And that owner of the dogs I shot at is no longer renting a trailer down the road...trailer was hauled out and it was a happy day in the neighbourhood.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (May 25, 2013)

2011 Dog Fatality Stats

I did a little bit of research on my own in the last couple minutes. Look, I'm not Pit Bull hater but I can't stand the people that are so blind to the fact that these dogs can be, and are in many cases, very dangerous dogs. No, not all and really not even most of them probably but Pits are a big issue and of all dog breeds are the most unstable and most dangerous. And don't tell me it's only the owners or the training or whatever. The breed is very much to blame.

In the last 5 years (including this year, so 2009-2013) there have been 145 fatalities from dogs in the US. Of those 145 deaths, 87 are the result of Pit Bull and Pit Bull crosses. That's 60%. So of the hundreds of breeds of dogs in the US 60% of the deaths are the result of this one breed of dog. Just a little lopsided. Only once in the last 5 years have Pit Bulls been responsible for less 50% of the deaths in a single year. That was in 2009 when Pit Bulls killed only 14 of the 30 people killed by dogs that year. In 2013 alone they have killed 13 of the 14 people that have died this year.

Let me just read a few descriptions.

Christian Gormanous was 4 years old when on Jan 19, 2013 he was killed by a Pit Bull when he climbed over a fence and got too close to the neighbor's tethered dog.

Tarilyn Bowles was 3 weeks old when on Oct 4, 2012 she was mauled by the family dog (Pit Bull)when left briefly unattended.

Mya Maeda was 11 days old when on Oct 3, 2011 she was dragged from her bassinet and killed by the family dog, a Pit Bull mix.


Pit Bull Kills Jogger

More Pit Bull Attacks

Pit Bull Attacks Teen

Wikipedia Fatal Dog Attacks


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 25, 2013)

*I have no hatred AT ALL for pits, and I'm sure some of them can be sweet. In fact I used to work with a Pit rescue (called "It's The Pits" ) and have seen plenty of "friendly" ones.... I however have had other experiences. I once dated someone that had one, a white female. I was over there all the time and we even took the dog camping with us. I have pictures of her sitting in my lap during the camping trip. After we got back from camping I went over there the very next day and the pit jumped and lept at me and almost attacked me. Only because of my good reflexes and ducking back out the gate when I saw her charging me saved me I'm sure. This breed just has a tendency to have a screw loose. 

That being said ANY dog can get into a pack mentality and attack, even the sweetest best trained most docile dog. And ANY dog can revert to feral after being left on it's own. 

I think the article was poorly written and omitted lots of important details, but it's sad that any livestock has been lost to feral dogs, there needs to be better plans in place to deal with them, they can even be a danger to humans. I've read a couple articles where people have been trapped and killed by feral packs.*


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## PendergrassRanch (May 26, 2013)

The issue with those stats SHK, is that many "pitbulls" and "Pitbull crosses" are miss identified.  Any short coated, large head dog will be labeled a "pit". They simply cannot do that, but we know how the media craves the dramatics. 

These dogs are so gravely misunderstood. They are no more dangerous than ANY OTHER dog breed. They are terriers, of course they have prey drive. Just because they have bigger heads and more muscle than your average terrier doesn't mean they are inheritably dangerous. Any dog, is dangerous in the wrong hands or if set up to fail. 

Blame the deed, not the breed. And unless you can 100% identify the breed, don't label it as anything but human error.


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (May 26, 2013)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> *
> .This breed just has a tendency to have a screw loose.
> *


Actually, they perform better in temperament testing than most "family dog" breeds. 

There is NO evidence anywhere, from any scientific journal, from any vet, from anywhere, that says their brains are different than any other breed.

I had an Aussie flip his lid and bite several people (including myself and husband) with no warnings, no predicable scenarios. Several vets & behaviorists later, they did not find a problem. Some animals, just like some humans (think of all the mass murderers, terrorists, etc), are just not "right". 

It's not fair to label a whole breed based on the actions of few.

<------Owner of 3 Pit Bulls. One of which is a doggy blood donor and donates blood every 6 weeks. He has saved more than 30 lives in the past year.


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## Southern by choice (May 26, 2013)

I have worked with hundreds of breeds and thousands of dogs.
I am a dog person through and through.

I am really tired of the pro pit-bull ****

First , sick of hearing about how it is all in how you raise them etc. NOT TRUE.
Because of the extreme advocacy groups out there this really is a big issue. 
Pit bull advocates are outraged when there is a media report involving bull terriers... in this you can include the* American Staffordshire Terrier, Bull Terrier, Miniature Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier,*

Here is the truth... many severe injuries and deaths NEVER make it to the media because of the groups out there that want to paint a picture of these sweet so misunderstood dogs- said with sarcasm.

I try NEVER to comment on Pit Bull matters as too many people get pissed off about it... but so tired of it now. Pendergrass no offense here because you are awesome with your dogs and have a real passion which is commendable but I have been working with dogs professionally longer than you have been alive, hence way more experience here.

I have noticed over the past ten years the constant attempt to re-invent the Bull terriers, change their history so to speak, denial of the truth all by the breed advocates.

I live in the Bull capital of the US... so we see alot here.. most stories never make it to the papers, media etc. there is way too much politicking going on. How many state approved vets have you worked with that have had to testify in court? That have had to go in measure the wounds to match it to the correct "pit-bull" , have you seen babies toes chewed off by the family pet? have you had a neighbor whose 3 year old was killed because it stepped over the property line and the chained restrained pit bull grabbed the 3 year old mauled it to death, police had to shoot 5 rounds in the dog before it would stop, they the mother of the 3 year old gets charged with not protecting her 3 year old/neglect why the owner of the pit bull wasn't charged with anything because the said dog was "properly Restrained".  The family pet kills a family member it  has been raised with from 6-8 wkspup?

Lots of dogs bite, this is true. However with the terriers especially the breeds mentioned above and mixes of these breeds it is HARD WIRED in these dogs to keep going, never give up, back down, til the death... and this is not just from those that use the dogs illegally for fighting, it is the HISTORY of the breed. So when a dog like this bites, it is never just a bite... it is a mauling or death. The end results are not the same as being bit by a dachshund, a lab, a poodle, even a shepherd or dobie.

Every year there are statistics on dog bites and generally the most bites come from whatever the "popular" breed is at thhe time, which makes sense, because of the sheer numbers. The difference is the majority of those bites are simply bites, not maulings or death.The same cannot be said for the bull terriers.

There was some ridiculousness awhile back ago about the "names" saying there is no such thing as a "pit bull terrier... not true.
The American Staffordshire Terrier has long been refferred to a Pit Bull Terrier, pit dog,american Bull terrier as far back as the 1870's originally as game terriers and guardians. All these above breeds were bred from similar stock and are closely related. 
Bull Terriers are actually in many ways very friendly and playful yet can be extreme in a fight situation. These are the least seen in the Pit- Bull world due to their funny heads...simply not appealing to people. The Staffordshires have been fighting dogs since their development in the late 1800's.

Soooo, when we hear from groups that try to tell people that these were never fighting dogs and that this is just something bad people are doing with these dogs it is a FALSE statement. This kind of silly propaganda is actually doing alot of harm.

Back in the 80's the uprise in dogfighting became popular again. #1 choice were of course the above breeds, with the exception of the actual Bull Terriers, mostly the Staff, and the American Staff. There was alot going on to combat this and so there really were those that had stable dogs without the issues of today... that all started to go wrong when the rescue groups came along and wanted to save and rescue these dogs from fighting rings etc, then became the big promotion of the "so mis-understood" breed. Truthfully these dogs shouldn't be in most homes and the BS crap has caused more issues in the long run. 

The silliness of telling people it's not the breed it's the people, or it's all in how they are raised is a LIE. 
Seen way to many of these dogs raised in loving great homes yet have been responsible for loss of limbs, toes, 1/2 face etc.

Ask this question... if you were going to be bit by a dog would you rather be bit by a pit bull breed type or another breed? What would your answer be? Why?

There are many people on this forum that have worked with dogs for years will not touch or comment on these topics because they get too heated and they figure it is just not worth it. They are right... that is one reason why I never do... but now I am sick of this PC crap... the original article was poorly written but what I find interesting is how everyone is up in arms because they decsribed the dogs as pit bull type.... shortly after this article a jogger in Ca was killed when attacked by 4 , a few weeks ago another death, wake up- there is a reality here.

There is genetic inheritance. It isn't all in how an animal is raised. These dogs are not being mis-identified... they are very distinct in body and head structure, and usually when there is a problem of DEATH- measurements of wounds and jaw structure. Very few breeds have such distinct jaw structure.


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (May 26, 2013)

Go ahead, tell me you got it dead on with your first guess.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

And tell me again how it's hard to misidentify the AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER, AKA Pit Bull....not Staffy Bull, not Bull, which are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. That's like saying a Lab and a Golden are the same because they each are Retrievers. 

You say Bull Terrier in your entire post, which shows your complete lack of knowledge on dog breeds.

And yes, I will continue to fight for my breed. Tell me you wouldn't advocate for your own dogs when people call them monsters and killers completely based on media bias.


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## Southern by choice (May 26, 2013)

My lack of knowledge... you must be joking   .... I identified each breed and for the purpose of discussion chose a simple term... *realize these breeds are all related from their origin*... 

also I am not against pitbulls, bull terriers... what ever politically correct term* you want to use semantics with.*

*I do not advocate against these breeds in any way*, but there is reality here.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 26, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> *realize these breeds are all related from their origin.*


*
I have to agree with Southern on this one. I don't care if it's an American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, or whatever you want to call it. The dogs are VERY VERY similar, same origins etc, that's why people can't tell them apart.

And just FYI, I like your page, it was fun, and yes I got the APBT on my very first choice.

And American Pit Bull Terrier is often shorted to "Bull Terrier"... doesn't mean she doesn't know what she is talking about, believe me she does!!! *


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (May 26, 2013)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> Southern by choice said:
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Are you joking? Seriously?

The BULL TERRIER and the AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER are two VERY DIFFERENT breeds. The APBT is called the Pit Bull and the Bull Terrier is called a Bull Terrier. That is it! No, NEVER, is the APBT called the Bull Terrier.


http://www.akc.org/breeds/bull_terrier/index.cfm

http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/Breeds/Terrier/AmericanPitBullTerrier12012012

Go ahead, keep tell me those breeds are the same.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (May 26, 2013)

Do the research as I did last night.

I could read you many descriptions. Could a dog be misidentified? Sure could, but nearly all of these are KNOWN to be Pit Bulls because they are family dogs, they are neighbor's dogs, friend's dogs, etc. 

You can throw your fake stats and be biased and blind all you want but when someone goes out and gets unbiased and real stats you can't touch them. Sorry but the fact is, Pit Bulls do kill more people than any other breed by far. They are a deadly breed and a very dangerous breed when they want to be. And of course this is not all Pit Bulls. I mean if there are only a handful of dog deaths a year and yes most are by Pit Bulls but there are also many, many Pit Bulls out there so no not all are like that but if you think about the fact that they make up less than 5% of the US dog population and they have been responsible for 60% of the death in the last five year...stats you just can fight. Sorry.


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## Southern by choice (May 26, 2013)

There origins are the same.

I understand the whole "name thing"... I have had GSD for 3 generations in my family...now 4. Rarely does anyone use the "proper" name of German Shepherd Dog. It is "shepherd most of the time and often when their is some mutt that looks blk/tan it is always referred to as a "shepherd like dog" there are many shepherd breeds! However when the term Shepherd is used it ia always associated with the German Shepherd Dog. THIS PEEVES ME TOO!   But we have to move past that and get to the root issue because the semantics are not focusing on any of the concerns.

For dog fanciers the appearance of the American Staffordshire and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and the Bull Terrier are very different. To the *average person they really don't know the difference*, especially between the  American Staffordshire and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. You also have the Cane Corso that gets mixed in too. 

*I want you to know I am not an advocate of any breeds of dogs being banned EVER! *I will say many of the advocates are doing more harm than good by how they are handling these issues.
I have been around for awhile and have seen many breeds come under fire. I share with you an example, because I am not your enemy, and have respect for those that are standing up to advocate for their breed!
Back in the 80's the Rottweiler came under heavy fire and was responsible for maulings, death and were being banned in many communities and whole counties, this was just before the emergence of the ABOVE mentioned breeds. 

What saved this breed is HOW the Rottweiler community handled it!

They acknowledged these dogs *CAN BE *very dangerous, they are guardians they should only be owned by people who can truly be responsible with them.* In the "rottie" community they worked together, when there were issues they didn't deny it*, they also didn't want everything rehabilitated. Dangerous dogs were put down. PERIOD. *They did not send the message that no they are just misunderstood, they are sweet and lovable and it is the people.* The community acknowledged the problems and began to be very selective and careful with the breed... also Remember this is before the whole spay /neuter  and lets rescue everything. 

Because of this they saved their breed!

Guess what happened... more and more people were refused by breeders(big and small breeders) and that is when the emergence of the "pit" terriers started.... that included American Staffordshire and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier and the Bull Terrier.

*IMO the biggest mistake the advocates for the above breeds are making is by ignoring the data, the concerns of the people, and not really looking at the long term. The breeds are going to be lost if the momentum and the actions don't change. *

We also live in a world where people are just kind of ignorant to the ways of dogs.
We had a neighbor years ago. I knew instinctively this dog wasn't to be trusted, his dog was always on our property, he would come over and go on and on about this dog... it really was the love of his life! I get that!   Here is the thing, I warned him about the dog... OK, So I am a professional trainer with specialty in behavior, they guy wouldn't listen. I had to make sure my kids (they were young then) knew what to do... once the dog was right there and turned suddenly while I grabbed my son... owner still thought Oh he is just playing. GOOD GRIEF!   Tried to tell him nicely etc. never listened.... Right before we moved the dog was out ran across thhe street and started attacking the other neighbor while he was checking his mail. 
AC came, dog was quarantined and it got more serious because the dog had no rabies... guy though the didn't need one cuz he lived in a neighborhood.... Guess he didn't think of all the wildlife we were right up against- as it was a wildlife preserve.

My point is yes dog bite! Any pack, be it labs, mutts, goldens, beagles anything can attack a herd of goats. I think the story- poorly written- was more about the pack of dogs- wild. If it would have been reported a pack of Shepherd type dogs would you have been so Pissed off about it? They didn't get the name right????  

Most people owning these breeds as well as quite a few others on the list don't know that their insurance companies will not cover injuries, some companies require a special "umbrella" insurance of 1,000,000 policy. 

Many do not know that the tracking of dog bites and breed types are going into databases for the purpose of banning breeds. Many dog bites by small dogs go unreported as there is little to no damage.  

One could argue it is all about responsible ownership...yep, but that means acknowledging what your breed is capable of. That *IS *responsible ownership.

Downplaying the possible "down" side to the breed is hurting the breed! 

I see Pendergrasses "Gunner" and I just LOVE that dog!!!!!!!!!!
One of my favorite dogs from the kennels many many years ago was "Billy" an awesome girl that was snatched up out of a busted fighting ring...all the pups were euthanized but her. 

*Just because a person is voicing some other opinions and showing another side doesn't mean they are against you or the breed.
I want you to know that, Blonde squirrel, I LOVE dogs, they are incredible animals but I do want to see the advocates for these breeds to make changes for the betterment of the breed and come down HARD on their own breeds.... so the "bad seeds" so to speak are eradicated. Restore the integrity of the breeds and you will save it. Restore the confidence of the public by condemning attacks and maulings.  *

  Food for thought from an oldie!


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 26, 2013)

BlondeSquirrel04 said:
			
		

> WhiteMountainsRanch said:
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*
I am not, and did not say THEY ARE THE SAME BREED. What I said is the NAME is interchangeable, especially to the lay person that doesn't know about the different breeds. PIT BULL is just a name that everyone uses to identfy any "pitty looking" mix. Just like "Husky" can mean siberian husky, chinook, or alaskan husky... to the lay person.*


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (May 26, 2013)

I'm not downplaying AT ALL that the APBT is more often than not dog aggressive. After all, they were bred to fight other dogs. *That is why they were created!* I do not take my dogs to dog parks or to PetCo and places like that for that reason. I also realize they have a high prey drive and do not let them off leash anywhere, period. I realize they are extremely strong, strong willed, and like to fight. I would not let ANY dog be unsupervised with a child, regardless of breed. As an advocate, I do not down play these attributes because I don't want just anyone owning one. NO breed is the dog for everyone. Unfortunately, my breed is the dog of choice for unscrupulous owners...dog fighters, drug dealers, etc. and my advocacy will not stop them from owning dogs who are in the headlines for attacking people. 

It is common sense to understand why you don't see a lot of breeds killing people. I've met some pretty angry little Toy Poodles who've bitten my ankles repeatedly, but of course they are not strong enough to kill anyone. Roughly half of all dog breeds are too small to kill anyone if they tried and you know as well as I do that they do like to try! So right there, let's say that 50% of all dog breeds couldn't kill someone no matter what. And seeing as Pit Bulls are strong dogs who are the dog of choice for those who are not likely to socialize, train, and contain their dog, then of course, it's pretty easy to imagine how they'd top the list of fatal human attacks. 

However, when my breed is sensationalized as the media "dog devil", I am compelled to stand up for them. There have been many inaccurate stories portraying them as the villain, when in fact it was a Lab mix, or an American Bulldog, behind the attack. It is not uncommon at all for a news org. to edit their story because they have misidentified the dog in question. There was just one this week where two American Bulldogs attacked a woman in Plainfield, NJ, and the headline said "Pit Bull" until a photo of the dogs emerged. You can't tell me that it wouldn't bother you to see that your favorite breed is being used to sell headlines.

I don't deny for a second that a Pit Bull can hurt someone. I don't deny that many have. I don't deny that you'll surely see that more will. What I do deny is the gross over generalization and prejudice that a dog who looks a certain way is a killer.


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## Southern by choice (May 26, 2013)

I am very confused as to this post....


> The BULL TERRIER and the* AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER* are two VERY DIFFERENT breeds. The APBT is called the Pit Bull and the Bull Terrier is called a Bull Terrier. That is it! No, NEVER, is the APBT called the Bull Terrier.


Where is the American Pit Bull Terrier?

According to the terrier group recognized by the AKC-

there is the
 AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER
 BULL TERRIER
 STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER


I have been out of the "show" world for many years so I might not be up on the latest.... there was a Miniature Bull Terrier at one time, don't know if it is still recognized or not.

Most bad incidence are from the American Staffordshire Terrier, and I certainly get your wanting to clear the record. The Bull Terrier, with the cute funny faces in many ways are different, same origins, but different.

Yep, they are all lumped in....  the Bulldog story doesn't surprise me and that they were bulldogs doesn't either...another breed too many people saw and thought oh how cute and know NOTHING about them. SO SAD!


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (May 27, 2013)

AmStaff and APBT are "cousins" so to speak. APBT is recognized in UKC and AmStaff is AKC. 

Even experienced breeders have a difficult time telling the difference between APBT and AmStaff. And because breeders these days are completely bastardizing the breed by breeding for color (blue mostly, which causes a host of health issues) and size (45-60lbs is the max for a male according to breed standard), the gene pool is becoming very screwed up.

In the Pit Bull community, we ONLY refer to the AmStaff or APBT as "Pit Bull". Even Staffy Bull owners get pissed if we refer to their dogs as Pit Bulls. 

MiniBull is still recognized in AKC I believe.

There are several "other" registries like the ABDA, which to me is a joke, but I digress. Then you have people creating "American Bullies" which is a hippo like monster mix of English & American bulldogs, APBT, AmStaff, and Lord knows what else. http://www.domesticsale.com/classif...x-kingdom-bakersfield-california-a699462.html. Yes, people see this walking...er...shuffling...down the street and will call that a Pit Bull.


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## Southern by choice (May 27, 2013)

Ok, saw that pic... Really!

Reminds me of how some people are so   We had neighbors years ago that were so proud of themselves they were on a waiting list for "RARE", very expensive "ALL WHITE" Boxer. I explained to the the "truth" about the so called all white "rare" boxer. 

My dearest friend showed Bull Terriers for years, and you are right.. most people cannot tell them apart. Even though the Heads are totally different...  

I too am very passionate about breeds and looking at them as a whole and individually. Having working GSD's they are completely different from the "AKC" American confirmation Dogs. Truly, many people could not handle or own a real working line GSD- they are tooo much dog. I tell people go with a AKC Confirmation line... they are "pets" 

Then you get people that want working GSd dogs so they can have what they think is going to be a BAD A** DOG! 

There is a serious issue here with "fighting dog" breeders. I am pretty sure NC has them all. You should see the papers.... loaded with ads...they breed nonstop... 

You should post a pic!


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (May 27, 2013)

The perpetual breeding of inbred, poorly bred, sub-par dogs who are victims of their owner's stupidity are the reason why we see the headlines. People breed for cash, not breed improvement. A well bred APBT should never be human aggressive, ever. Those dogs were culled from the fighting ring in the old days. The saying was, "Man eaters die!"

Surely the "pinkers", as we call them, are also part of the reason. They do ignore inherent breed traits like a high prey drive and dog aggression, and believe that these things can be trained out of the dog. Fat chance! They see one episode of the wackjob Cesar Milan and believe it's just that easy to make all their dogs get along. I wish. These advocates are hurting the breed by giving them to homes that are setting the dogs up to fail.

I don't show, nor do I even support breeding for pet quality animals when millions die in the shelter each year. All of my dogs are former death row inmates through no fault of their own. No, I have no clue of their lineage or if they came from gamebred lines. What I do know is that I have extremely people friendly animals who are unfairly judged by those who are ignorant to the breed, the media bias, and dog behavior.

This is my blue fawn boy rescued just hours before his euthanasia from a shelter in FL where dog fighting is rampant. I believe he was just the victim of being a mischievous puppy and sent to die at the shelter.





And here he is, completely ignoring our chickens...subsequently he was chased by one of the alpacas and looked like he was going to mess himself in fear.


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## BHOBCFarms (May 27, 2013)

Actually, data IS suspect on the tracking of all breeds and biting incidents - there is no uniformity to how the data is collected and how breeds are "defined", how it is or can be interpreted is even more debatable.    Unfortunately, data collecting in this area is random, does not include data on unreported incidents, which may be numerous, may include other breeds - incidents that may not result in as serious injury, but may reveal trends about other breeds which may in fact be more unsafe - certainly we know that many small breeds bite more often in reported cases, they just do less overall damage.  In my field, there is some discussion about the "sociology" of pitbulls, and how our spociety (the media, etc.) has socially constructed them to symbolize and be seen as an extension of the parts of society that we look down on, discriminate against, etc.  Much like there are social constructs about what are the characteristics about what society believes a human criminal to be (minority, poor, violent, alcoholic, immigrants, etc.), our society has simultaneously socially constructed what we believe to be "the dog version of a criminal, or the evil pit bull/dog criminal".  Similarly to societies human version of the criminal, the dog we associate today as evil, violent and sociall unacceptable is the pit bull.  He is seen as a product of, and part of the underclass of minority, poor, and criminal segment of society.  The media just perpetuates it, just as it perpetuates negative beliefs about black/minority criminality, etc.  It is probable that the very "evidence" most people cite of pitbull violence is probably even more poorley gathered, excecuted and interpreted.  After all, many people will point to crime statistic (FBI, etc.) as proof of the criminality of minorities, etc., when careful interpretation of that same data actually shows the persecution of those groups (or the hyper-focus on thier criminality) by society in general.


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## Southern by choice (May 27, 2013)

well said!

I will say with the new re-write of the medical codes due to Obamacare  every bite will have to be recorded as specific. Get this... if a duck bites you that is one code, if a duck slaps you that is one code... It is gonna be a nightmare... I suppose pekin ducks will be the new evil.   So "Ducks" will have their own code. 

Truly the stats for dog bites aren't accurate yet deaths from dogs is another story. I think that is where the big concerns come in.
I do not want the US ending up like so many other countries where certain dogs are BANNED!

BTY - Blonde squirrel GREAT PICS!

I feel horrible for the farmer of the goats! Can you imagine!


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## CYGChickies (Jun 10, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> All I want to know is why someone would have 200 goats and not have an entire team of LGD's.


Exactly! We have four goats, lost two rabbits to a pair of German Shepherds and a Yellow Lab ONCE and now we have our team of Pyrs.


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