# What breed would you recommend...?



## Sara Ranch (Nov 14, 2017)

I am working on next year's Ranch Plan.  Adding rabbits is part of that plan.   

I've watched and listened to others in the area have many failures with their rabbits, breeding, and eating endeavors.  I have definitely learned a few things that I will NOT be doing.  (Thanks guys!)

*My goal is to have hardy meat rabbits that I can breed.* _I'd like to sell the rabbits and well as process the rabbits for eating._  This past summer, there were a few days when the heat was 120-128.  UGH.  The majority of the time, there is a gentle breeze blowing.  And at times, there is a high wind.  So far, this winter, temps have dropped down to 15.  

In reading this forum, I read about "colonizing" the rabbits.  I love the idea, but not sure I could do it here.  I am on top of a mountain.  Lots of rocks in the ground.

I have seen wire cages set out in the open with a tarp over the tops.

I have seen wire cages set out in the open with 3 sides solid, with only the door as wire mesh.

I have seen wire cages (all sides) out in the open.

I have seen wire cages in a barn, no access to direct sunlight.

I have seen mobile tractors with a small bowl of pellets attached with a single rabbit in it.

What breed of rabbits would you recommend?

What type of housing would you recommend?

What type of feed would you recommend?  (I currently have all my other animals on pasture, supplemented with feed.)

Where would you recommend I get the rabbits?

What to look for on the rabbit to ensure it's healthy?  (Or what are the red flags with the rabbit to look for?)

Thanks!


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## Sara Ranch (Nov 15, 2017)

@Bunnylady


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## Hens and Roos (Nov 15, 2017)

We have both Californian(meat breed) and French Angora(wool breed) rabbits.  We are lucky as our rabbits are housed in our shop most in stackable cages and several of the angora's have floor pens(does with litters).  Our kids show both breeds as 4-H projects, we do process for meat and we are in the learning stages of spinning the wool we comb off the angoras.

During our summer months we set up a med size barn fan to provide cooling for them as needed.  We don't breed during the summer months(June, July, August).  Sometimes we will do a winter litter given that our shop is heated(a perk because of the equipment we store for our business)

We feed a 15%-17% protein pellet to our Californian and an 18% protein pellet to our angoras plus free choice grass mix hay and fresh water.

You can check the ARBA(American Rabbits Breeders Association) to find local breeders who raise the breed you are looking for.  You can also check at local flea markets, with local 4-H clubs to see if they know of anyone too.

A good book to take a look at or even have for reference is Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits

Good Luck in getting starting with your rabbits!


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## Pastor Dave (Nov 15, 2017)

What hens and roos said.

Florida Whites aren't quite as big as New Zealand Whites, but maybe more tolerant to the heat.

I use fans, but also 2liter or 3liter soda bottles filled with water and frozen, leave a liitle room for expansion. They lay next to 'em to keep cool. I use 1liter bottles in my nest boxes. They will smother in there if too hot.

It's a good idea to avoid breeding in July, August, and December, January if in zones with high heat and lows that stretch out a while.

Main thing to remember is find a way to keep them dry. A wet rabbit dies quick in cool weather. Try to keep the wind off them in winter, and out of direct sun.

I feed a 16% protein rabbit pellet made from alfalfa. I also supplement with Calf Mana. Just a teaspoon a day. For lactating does and fryers I use a bit more. Abt a Tb.
A tsp of BOSS each day per bunny too. Black Oil Sunflower Seed. A good thing to try is a Tb or 2Tb ACV per gallon drinking water. Apple cider vinegar.
Provides Vit A and helps with urinary tract issues. Mine get free fed grass or orchard hay daily too. If they get a little loose bowels, give a little rolled oats or steel cut oats.

Lots more probably that I am leaving out. If you think of specific questions, just ask.


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## goatgurl (Nov 15, 2017)

hi sara, I live on the Arkansas/Oklahoma border about half way down the state.  the summers here are hot and humid for the most part.  my rabbits live under a large oak tree on the east side of a storage building that blocks all the western sun and heat.  I keep a tarp over the top and sides of the cages to block the rain.  I don't have electricity out there so no fan and no ice water bottles in the summer time either.  I have meat mutts which are a mixture of new Zealand, Californians, palomino and American chinchilla with just a little touch of Flemish giant thrown in.  they have always done well in my summer heat but I don't breed them for july, august or September kits.  our winters don't compare to w.va. winters.  I lived in a little town called French creek just outside of Buckhannon, wv for 17 years and know how cold it gets in that part of the state.  if you keep them dry and out of the wind they should do ok.  just my personal preference, I have hanging cages for my buns, have never raised them in colonies but have read a lot of negative things about it so just never tried it.  i keep a buck and 2 or 3 does and they furnish all the rabbit meat i want with some to give family.   i hope you find the breed that is right for you and enjoy them


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## Pastor Dave (Nov 15, 2017)

I agree with goatgurl on the colony aspect(and other things too. Depending on region will determine what you can do with your buns and how.) Not many good things have been shown abt colonies to make me want to do it that way. 

I currently have 4 does and two bucks. It is more than we can eat, and don't get many orders, so going down to half that.


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## Sara Ranch (Nov 16, 2017)

Thank you!

This gives me a good starting point.  

1)  California, Florida Whites, New Zealand Whites, and meat mutts would be good rabbits to start with.

2)  No breeding/litters during the hottest and the coldest months.  Up here, that varies, but there are definitely seasons.

3)  Don't let the rabbits get wet!  If they do, dry them immediately!!  Don't let rabbits be in direct sunlight or direct wind.  Keep the rabbits from overheating. 

4)  Feed 15-18% protein, plus fresh grass/hay mix.  

5)  Flea markets, craigslist, 4-H, and ARBA(American Rabbits Breeders Association)

Besides environment where the rabbits are being kept, what else should I look for as red flags?

With all the advice/suggestions given, I am trying to figure out the best place to put the rabbit hutches.  In the morning, the sun is on the front of the house.  I keep blinds/drapes closed in the summer to help control the heat.  In the afternoon and evening, the sun is behind the house.  Probably too much for the rabbits, especially in the summer time.

Next to one of the animal houses?  The only concern I have there is rats.  I don't like them and I don't want to attract them to animal house.  (I'm sorry - everyone I know who has rabbits has a rat problem, even if they deny it.  I've seen the numerous rat droppings on and around the rabbit cages.  While I may have rats, I definitely want to DISCOURAGE the population.)

I have a metal barn, but it's not insulated.  I could probably insulate a section around the rabbit hutches... but would worry about them getting enough sunlight.

I have a furnace building, but it's not insulated.  However, when the wood stove is going, which it should be through most of the cold months, the room would be warm.  Again, sunlight is a concern.

At this point, I don't know how many rabbits would be a good number to start with.  I want to breed the rabbits to keep the population going as well as sell the rabbits and/or process the rabbits.

Predators.  I got them.  I probably don't have to worry about overhead predators if the rabbits are in hutches/cages.  There are squirrels, raccoons, foxes, coyotes, and bears on property.  Probably more predators I am just not thinking of right now.  Which ones do I need to worry about and suggestions for protecting the rabbits?  I cringe at the through of a free standing rabbit station, but thinking that may be the way to go...unless I buy/build them a rabbit shed/house...?

I appreciate all of the information!  It's helping me set up a starting point.

@Hens and Roos - I would love to hear more about the spinning of the wool.  Where could I get a spinning wheel?  What do you plan to do with the wool spun?

@Pastor Dave - you mentioned receiving orders for rabbits.  About how much do you sell the rabbits for?  Live or already processed?  You said you had 4 does and 2 bucks and more rabbits than you can eat/sell.  About how many rabbits do you eat in a month?  Sell in a month?  Produce?  What kind of rabbits do you have?

@goatgurl - yeah, it can get COLD here!  So far, 15 and the coldest months haven't happened yet!  Typically January and February around here are the super cold months.  Brrr!


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## Hens and Roos (Nov 16, 2017)

make sure the rabbits don't have any nasal/eye/matted fur on inside of front paws-these are symptoms of snuffles which is a contagious respiratory issue.

make sure the rabbits you buy exhibit a bright eye, glossy coat, good over all body condition and moving around

any time we add a new rabbit we quarantine it away from our main group for at least 30 days to make sure it doesn't have anything or develop anything

We are still learning how to spin- in all reality we haven't worked with spinning in over a year now do to life happenings .  We ended up getting a drop spindle 1st to learn how to spin fiber and then our wheel from a local fiber shop(we just typed into google-fiber shops near me) that we found on-line.   We ended up getting an Ashford Kiwi 2 spinning wheel-double treadle. Based on recommendation from the owner of the shop, we picked up some merino wool to mix with the angora to help it stay hooked together better.  With the wool spun we can turn it into yarn for knitting or crochet work(we do know how to crochet)


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## Sara Ranch (Nov 16, 2017)

@Hens and Roos - sounds exciting!!!  I looked up drop spindle.  Inexpensive and looks like I could do that.

Wow.  All of these things (like the manual hay baler & the drop spindle) I learn about here that I didn't realize I wanted!

I understand about life happening.  Happens all the time here!   

Thank you for sharing about the spinning.  I will be adding that to my 2018 big picture plan.


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## Pastor Dave (Nov 16, 2017)

The squirrels are no issue.  The rabbits will be bigger than a squirrel. The coons eat eggs,  frogs, maybe a chicken, but not a rabbit. So, the foxes, coyotes, and bears are threats.

It sounds like the front of your house is South and back is North. The afternoon sun will be hotter than morning sun. They would do well under a shade tree or on the North side of a building protected from the sun.

They prefer 55degs F to 70degs F temps, so a heated barn or shed isn't usially too good for them. If they get used to the artificial heat and it should go out, it would be detrimental to them. I learned that on this site by the way. Mine are in a shed year round with ceiling vents. I put straw in with mine if it gets below 30degs F, but they soil it quick, and even eat it. It has to get changed abt every other day.

Around here, folks want to pay close to price for chicken in the store. Not a lot. We sold mutts for $5 live when I was a kid and $7 processed. Believe it or not, now I sell live for $10 and processed for $12. My pedigreed sells are $25.

Rabbits actually have more meat on carcass in terms of percentage than most other livestock. Abt 55-60% of total weight will be meat. We go for 5lbs by 10 weeks, and get 2-1/2lbs to 3lbs meat per carcass. You can go 12 to 16 weeks, but then they become roasters rather than fryers. If you go longer than 11 weeks, they get sexually mature, so may need to sex them and separate.
Prepare the meat just like chicken or pork.

American Chinchillas, Satins, and Rexes are good meat breeds. Pretty much any of your large breed 10-12 lb. senior weight.


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## Sara Ranch (Nov 16, 2017)

The solar panels are in back, facing one end of the house.  I *think* the house is situated front facing ne/east, back facing sw/west.  The back definitely gets the afternoon sun big time.  The front gets the sun until about 10-10:30 am in the summer.  And not usually much before 6-7 am.

The animal activity (most of the livestock) is in the back of the house, away from the road.

Lol - I notice how no one is commenting on the rats.


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## Baymule (Nov 16, 2017)

I kept rabbits long ago. About 300 counting litters. I bred 10-12 does at a time so if a doe rejected a kit or the whole litter, I could foster the kits on other does. A dab of vanilla on her nose and on the kits does the trick! 

I prefer hanging wire cages in a barn or shed. There must be plenty of ventilation, I left one side open with heavy wire over it to keep out varmits. I also had a chicken coop attached to the rabbit barn with the ability to close them off if needed.

The chickens ate the dropped feed, scratched and turned the poo, ate fly larva and kept down flies. They also gave the rabbits ear mites, so once a month, all rabbits got several drops of mineral oil in each ear. 

I raised Satins. I had red, white, chinchilla, black and Siamese colors. I showed and sold the best for show, culled the ones not good enough for show, sold as fryers or ate them. 

I fed them pellets in feeders that hung on the wire. They had heavy crockery bowls for water. I also fed them a grain mix of whole oats, barley and milo in a crockery bowl. My favorites demanded cookies.


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## DutchBunny03 (Nov 16, 2017)

If you just want optimal meat production, a NZ/Cali hybrid is the way to go. Extra rabbits will get sold off(rabbits are adorable, someone is bound to want them). 
I live in an area where is gets to be below -20 F on a regular basis, and no problems with having rabbits outside in wire hutches yet. But heat will be more of a problem. Put the hutches in the shade, and use fans if possible. What also works is putting a frozen bottle of water in the hutch with the rabbit. It will eventually get the idea, and sit next to the water bottle. 

About hutch design: all wire or mostly wire works just fine. I use wire for the sides, top, and bottom, and wood as a frame(much sturdier than all wire), with a removable nest box in each hutch. You could do built in nest boxes, but they are much harder to clean. And a dirty nest box is a place for mites and bacteria to infest litters of new babies. That's one reason i cannot recommend all wood hutches. They are a breeding ground for disease. No matter how "cruel" wire might seem, it will save your rabbits in the long run. 

Sunlight is crucial. If you can't have sunlight, use lamps that imitate daylight, but sunlight is the best kind of light to have. Having rabbits in sunlight also usually allows ventilation, which is crucial. 

When buying rabbits, whatever you do, DON'T BUY FROM A HOARDER. The rabbits may be cheap, but can have mites, diseases, etc., to bring home to your rabbitry. Check Craigslist, the ARBA breeder listings, and go to state or county fairs to find some descent rabbits. 

Pellets are not absolutely necessary,  but very helpful, in rabbit raising, especially if you want optimal meat production. Even if you don't want to feed pellets to all the rabbits, at least give the pregnant does, lactating dams, and growing kits pellets. The best pellets to get are 16% protein. The higher protein grower pellets are just a waste of money. On top of pellets, concentrates(oats, barley, etc.) are good, especially for putting weight on growing fryers. And, of course, unlimited hay and water(the hay used for feeding horses works just fine; no need to waste money on expensive special "rabbit" hay). 

Healthy rabbits have bright eyes, glossy coats, well-furred footpads, no nasal discharge, and behave healthy. To check if a rabbit has snuffles(a disease that will kill all your rabbits in a week), check the front paws of the rabbit. If they are covered in dried mucus, the rabbit has been using its paws to wipe its nose, and is sick. Also check the ears of the rabbit. If the skin is crusty or bleeding, the rabbit has ear mites, which are a pain in the neck to get rid of. Run your hand down the rabbit's back. If it feels firm, but smooth, the rabbit is a healthy weight. If you can easily feel the individual vertebrae, the rabbit is not a healthy weight.


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## Pastor Dave (Nov 16, 2017)

When I was a kid, our hutches were outside in summer and dropped waste to the ground. We had rats that tunneled under and made dens. We exterminated them. In winter, we put them in the garage in hanging cages. Never had rats there.

Skip ahead 20+ years. I have them in a shed and have traps set for mice.  I catch one every once in a while. I have not had any sign of rats. Barns do get them, and where feed may be scattered loose here and there.

I have mostly New Zealand Whites. Dutch bunny 03 said best meat combo is Californian and NZW. I agree with her. We eat approx 1.5 per week. I was only getting an order for 1 to 2 per time I butchered. Mine were stacking up even though I use crock pot to make it in various recipes, grill them, and grind for sausage, etc. I am going down to 2 does and a buck. If you advertise, you could probably sell some. It is lean, low in cholesterol, and good protein.


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## Sara Ranch (Nov 17, 2017)

Wow!  Thank you!  I feel much more confident now about getting rabbits and being able to properly care for them and nurture them.

The plan is slowly revealing itself in my head...can you see it?  See the plan?


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## Baymule (Nov 17, 2017)

Yep.


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## rd123 (Nov 22, 2017)

We tried the colony method and it turned out to be a disaster. The major problem is unmanaged breeding produces more problems that cost money in the long run. 
It has been a while, but in our area (Southern Oregon) to get the best fryer price from the dealer who came into our area wanted 8wk old fryers from 4.5 to 5.5 lbs. Anything less or heavier was paid the lesser price of stewer rate.
The only way we found to get maximum feed conversion was to breed registered bucks from good stock with does produced from the same quality bucks.
If you are raising rabbits for your own meat supply it doesn't really matter except you will be paying more for feed in the long run. If I were to do it all over again I would start with registered bucks and does from a quality breeder. It might be more expensive, but good insurance for a successful operation. Also keep good records and be ready ahead of time for the stock you are about to purchase. With rabbits things happen fast and it is easy to get overwhelmed because they are so good at making little rabbits.


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## Sara Ranch (Nov 22, 2017)

Thank you.

I've done a little research on purchasing "registered" stock.


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