# Looking at dogs



## mama24 (Feb 7, 2012)

I don't know much about what dogs tend to make good LGDs I know Great Pyrenees are very popular around here, but it's hard to find them. I am looking on CL right now and there are a few free mixed breed pups available. The ones I'm looking at are Australian Shepherd mix, and German Shepherd mix. Would these make good LGDs as well as being safe around my kids? My favorite dog growing up was a large American Bulldog (120lbs), but there's no way I would want to train one of those to be a LGD. They have too much instinct to take down large game. We had trouble keeping him away from neighbor's cattle sometimes. They are so good with kids, though... I am wondering what breeds are the best for both LG and playing with kids. Any ideas? Thanks!

btw, I have chickens. I have a feeling the shepherds might be good for my goats, but maybe not so much my chickens???


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## crazyland (Feb 7, 2012)

This past month there were several purebred pyrs on cl. All were under age 3. Two were puppies at 5 and 6 months. 
Aussie and gsd are herders not protectors, way to much prey drive in both.


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## dwbonfire (Feb 7, 2012)

also in nc, i dont think your too far from me actually. anson county.

its really always a gamble, but your best bet is whatever breed you choose to get a young puppy and raise it with your livestock, that way it knows not to harm them. to get an adolescent or adult dog and hope to get it used to livestock is not a good idea, which i have just learned the hard way. even if someone tells you an adult dog is good with livestock, you want to be very careful. i have a shepherd, and he was supposed to be good with livestock and hes proven otherwise. hes great while im there, but as soon as i walk inside he reeks havoc. he is 18 months old. im kicking myself wishing i got a pup now. and a dog that proves to be sneaky should and could never be left alone with a child in my mind.
i dont have a ton of experience with australian shepherds, but i do know they have a tremendous instinct to herd. again, if you hope to have a dog not chasing or harming your animals you'd probably have to start with a puppy, and even then with a herding dog you might not be able to break that instinct. you might also have a dog herding and nipping at your kids if they are real young.
it just depends on the dogs themselves, its not easy to find a well rounded dog. i had a female GSD who was wonderful with kids, kittens, any and all poultry and goats, sheep, horses. everything. shepherds can have a high prey drive so its going to depend on the dog as an individual and how you raise it. as far as i have learned, the dogs that are known to be LGDs dont have high prey drives, and its in thier blood to protect livestock. if i had the money i would have a LGD here for sure, and also have my GSDs more for my protection, and cause i love them.
however depending on the dog as an individual, i think you could train any breed to be good around your livestock and your kids, it just depends how much your willing to work with them and exposing them at a very young age. with that said, not all breeds are going to be good *guardians* though. not all dogs will stand up to a coyote coming into your yard, so thats something to think about as well. i have found that theres a very definite reason they classify some breeds are LGDs, because thats exactly what they are.


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## Karma (Feb 7, 2012)

I would NOT go with a herding breed if you have younger children and smaller delicate animals as the pups of those breeds will almost always try to herd them and it is in general a pain to deal with. Border Collies and Aussies can be a bit neurotic if not given a job to do daily. GSD while some are great with animals, with breeding for police and sport work many no longer have the proper temperment to be around livestock not to mention how riddled the breed is with health problems. These breeds are also prone to medication reactions. I also would stay away from free mixed breed dogs, nothing against mixes or anything (one of my dogs is a mix) just that when children and a purpose such as guarding valuable livestock is involved it is best to have a history on the dog and proof the dog is of breeding to perform the purpose you have in mind and purebred dogs from working parents provide that. Dogs listed on craigslist are often from unintended matings or from those who are not breeding working dogs which can result in less healthy, less fit for their role puppies. Mixed breed gene inheritance is also tricky, you really can't tell what traits will be inherited from either parent. So basically my advice is spring for the purebred LGD with a family history of healthy working dogs that did well in a family environment, it will be worth it to avoid the problems that can result when you take a mixed oops litter puppy with little health or temperment background. 

This just me personally but I don't trust any dog enough with children to call them good with kids, most dogs will however respect children when those children are taught to handle them properly and the dog is taught proper manners. As far as LGD breeds and children, I don't think any of the breeds (in general) have the proper temperments to make good dogs for children to play with. Too much size and power and too much dog for a child to be expected to handle. I don't think most are really interested in it either. I would reccomend deciding either that these dogs are not appropriate playmates for children and keep the dog contained with the animals with limited supervised interaction with the children and get a seperate family dog for the children if it is needed, or that they are not what you want and aim for one of the more general purpose farm dogs that have a temperment that makes them suited to being a childs pet.


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## mama24 (Feb 8, 2012)

The only dog I have ever trusted completely with kids is the American Bulldog I mentioned before. They really do live up to their reputation as nanny dogs. My parents still had that dog when I had my first child. I was visiting one weekend when my son was about 2, and I went for a walk. My parents thought my son was with me, I thought he was safe with them. When I came back without my son, we all freaked out! A few minutes later, my son came from the direction of a small creek, with the dog following just behind him. He was crying. I got him to tell me what was wrong. He said "Ozo wouldn't let me play in the water!" The back of his fleece jacket was wet from the dog holding him back! That dog was worth his weight in gold, and I doubt I will EVER meet a dog like him, even if I get the same breed! He would just lay there and let my son pull his ears, stick his fingers up his nose, etc, and would just get up and walk away when he'd had enough without ever showing any aggression whatsoever. I have never trusted a dog alone with my kids except him, ever. I even don't like it when we go to my friend's house and she tells me it's fine when I hear her shi tzu growling and barking while playing with the kids. I would get another Am BD, but I'm not sure it would be a good idea. I am sure I could train him to be good around our own animals, but keeping away from neighbors if he happens to get loose is another story. Like I said, my parents had problems, maybe only twice a year, but twice a year is way too often! with our Am BD deciding to go have some fun with the neighbor's bull. He left the cows alone and went right for the bull, stupid dog. But they were originally bred for bull baiting, so I guess it makes sense. Right now, we are renting the only large property (42 ac) in a neighborhood between rural and suburban areas, but we are renting. When we move again, we may have neighbors with their own livestock. My mom spoiled that dog rotten after I went away to college, though, so perhaps his bull baiting was a symptom of that, and not something inherent in the breed. He didn't get enough exercise after I left home, and my mom treats her dogs like babies and doesn't make them listen to her. 

Thanks for pointing out about the shepherds, my first thought was duh, I should have known that! LOL. I'm having a bad week here. My daughter is sick, and I think I'm fighting it off, my brain is very fuzzy. 

I may just have to wait until my friend's G Pyr decide they like each other enough to breed. He had them with separate herds, and when he decided to put them together, they decided they didn't like each other, so he isn't sure they will actually breed. It's really weird, I didn't know dogs could be like that, but I guess you throw in their territory issues... He said his mistake was putting the female in with the male instead of vice versa, but he had the male in with his large herd of does, and didn't want to leave them unprotected.


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## greenfamilyfarms (Feb 8, 2012)

We just sold a litter of 7. Too bad I didn't see your post before they all went to their new homes.


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## ksj0225 (Feb 8, 2012)

I got my girl from around Raleigh.  He breds two females and has lots of goats and chickens.  Let me look around and see if I can find his number.  He also posts his for sale on craigslist.  Oh I found it.  I'll PM you.


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## dwbonfire (Feb 8, 2012)

ksj0225 said:
			
		

> I got my girl from around Raleigh.  He breds two females and has lots of goats and chickens.  Let me look around and see if I can find his number.  He also posts his for sale on craigslist.  Oh I found it.  I'll PM you.


would you mind PMing me the info as well? and if you wouldnt mind telling me how much he usually sells his pups for?


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## peteyfoozer (Feb 15, 2012)

an LGD is a genre of dog, like a hunting dog, or herding dog. Only certain breeds have been developed to do the job. Great Pyrenees, Maremma, Akbash, Anatolians, and others. They don't HERD or WORK livestock. They live with it and protect it by becoming integral to the 'flock' or 'herd'. A real, well bred LGD should never be a problem around livestock OR children. Their instinct is to protect.

We live on a ranch hours from town where there are NO small children. Yet, when a couple came to apply for a job and spent a weekend here, one of my dogs jumped the fence and spent the entire weekend with a 3 year old boy, keeping between him and the boss' snappy Jack Russell Terriers who have a history of biting. This little boy pulled his fur, slept on him and played all around him and the dog never became defensive or agitated. He behaves the same way with my little granddaughter and other grandkids when they come for their once a year visit.

Some LGD breeds are more appropriate with kids than others. Some tend to be more aggressive, or more hair trigger and better for fending off predators such as wolves and cougars. Its best to learn about the various breeds that are REALLY LGD breeds and see what suits your situation and needs the best. The WorkingLGDs board on yahoo is an excellent place to glean both information and find dogs in your area.

Good luck!


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## Mzyla (Feb 17, 2012)

One more thing; I don't know how tight your finances might be? 
Meaning, can you spare another $110 or so, on transportation?
Say you can find a perfect dog, 4 States away from Carolina and need to bring him in.
Driving 800 miles cost more then to pay Animal Transporter.
I did paid to a Transporter and they did excellent job.


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