# Goat  Semen Collection



## OneFineAcre (Nov 3, 2015)

I was just looking at our last ADGA newsletter.  The national convention was in October and each year they have a "spotlight" sale.  Your goat has to be approved for the spotlight sale, usually the offspring of a recent champion at national show, or a high producer, etc.

So anyway, a farm in NC bought a Nubian buckling for $10,600.00 
Yes, we know the people.

I thought at first it was a typo.  But, there has been a lot of chatter from our goat friends on Face Book.  No, it was not a typo.

I would hope he poops solid gold berries.


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## Latestarter (Nov 3, 2015)

Talk about inflation! WOW... Wish I had that kind of cash to throw at a single animal... That's almost a years worth of mortgage payments for me!


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## Bunnylady (Nov 3, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> Talk about inflation! WOW... Wish I had that kind of cash to throw at a single animal... That's almost a years worth of mortgage payments for me!



If I _had_ that kind of cash to throw at a single animal, I'd find something else to do with it! If he's really worth that much to them in their breeding program, more power to them, but I can't imagine an animal being worth that kind of money to me - especially a young, unproven one.


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## babsbag (Nov 3, 2015)

That is insane...goats die.  I'm sorry, I just can't justify that kind of money on an animal; but that is just me. I am not being critical of the people that did it, I just have better uses for that $$$. Personally,  I want to enjoy my animals, not worry over losing the investment. To each there own.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 3, 2015)

They own a dairy, so the only thing I can figure is that there is some serious production in his background.  I know that "proven" dairy bulls can be worth much, much more than that.
But, like you said he's just a buckling and he may not turn out to be all that.
And, I think since they have a dairy, they could get insurance on him.  People pay crazy money for race horses and you can insure them.

I wish I had a couple of $10,000 goats because I would sure be selling them.


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## babsbag (Nov 3, 2015)

Seriously, if someone were to leave me an expensive goat, car, fur coat, etc. I would be selling it.


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## Baymule (Nov 3, 2015)

Yup, he must have some serious dairy goat boobies in his heritage. I would expect him to throw does with bags hanging off both sides and one on her head.


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## babsbag (Nov 3, 2015)

And he better throw all does


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 3, 2015)

I saw that on FB a few weeks ago, thought the price was a little excessive  But hey, if you can afford it more power to ya! 

They also got a Hoanbu buck at a spotlight sale a few years ago.

Do any of y'all remember the $16,000 alpine buck?


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 3, 2015)

Goat Whisperer said:


> I saw that on FB a few weeks ago, thought the price was a little excessive  But hey, if you can afford it more power to ya!
> 
> The also get a Hoanbu buck at a spotlight sale a few years ago.
> 
> Do any of y'all remember the $16,000 alpine buck?




It must be production because from my understanding it wasn't based on his dam and sire's linear appraisal scores.


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## Latestarter (Nov 3, 2015)

I suppose as a potential investment (with the obvious real $$ risk associated), they "could" make that back by multiples down the road... If he DOES become, & produces a lot of doelings that grow to be C/GC offspring, w/E Grade LA's and off the chart milk test results, his AI sperm straws alone would command $$ for YEARS to come, even after he's long gone. Obviously any does produced would sell for a premium as well as potential herd sires he might produce down the road. 

I mean I see doelings selling from OFFSPRING of proven C/GC stock (nothing off the charts mind you, and NOT C/GC themselves, but from established breeders), selling for $500-$700 each, and that's from FF's even! Would only take a few years w/twin-trip drops to make that initial investment back.

Maybe they're smarter than the rest of us...  Wish I had kept the stock I bought in Intel (as well as some others) way back in the mid-late 70s.   I'd own a ranch now. <sigh>


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 3, 2015)

a





Latestarter said:


> I suppose as a potential investment (with the obvious real $$ risk associated), they "could" make that back by multiples down the road... If he DOES become, & produces a lot of doelings that grow to be C/GC offspring, w/E Grade LA's and off the chart milk test results, his AI sperm straws alone would command $$ for YEARS to come, even after he's long gone. Obviously any does produced would sell for a premium as well as potential herd sires he might produce down the road.
> 
> I mean I see doelings selling from OFFSPRING of proven C/GC stock (nothing off the charts mind you, and NOT C/GC themselves, but from established breeders), selling for $500-$700 each, and that's from FF's even! Would only take a few years w/twin-trip drops to make that initial investment back.
> 
> Maybe they're smarter than the rest of us...  Wish I had kept the stock I bought in Intel (as well as some others) way back in the mid-late 70s.   I'd own a ranch now. <sigh>



You're absolutely right.
And, one doesn't invest in a young animal based on potential unless one can afford the loss of a poor bet.

Just ask those Saudi's that come to the US every year and pay a $ Million bucks for a year old colt.


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## Latestarter (Nov 3, 2015)

Like someone else said, and you elaborated... it's a gamble, but if you have it to spend... it could be a huge windfall down the road... Only time will tell. They may end up the guru, or maybe the goat...


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## babsbag (Nov 3, 2015)

I have a friend's daughter that is showing a Boer doe for someone. That doe is supposedly worth 5000.00 and they have it insured. The doe didn't win one show at the fairs this year so I hope that her offspring will just taste better than others cause she isn't doing it in confirmation.  

The same friend bought a buckling for 600.00 from a very well known expensive herd in CA. That was A LOT OF MONEY for her. At six months of age he broken his stifle joint; never grew or walked right, never entered a show. Produced some kids, I have a few of them, and they are some of the worst milkers and smallest does in my herd.  He was put down at age 3 as every year he would go lame after breeding.

Livestock is risky business. As I said before...they die.


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## Baymule (Nov 3, 2015)

If you have LIVEstock.....you will get DEADstock. Guaranteed.


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## babsbag (Nov 3, 2015)

My dairy goat group decided tonight that $10,000 is too much to pay for a buck; so there you have it.   What herd did he come from?  There was a guess that he came from Lakeshore Farms ???


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 4, 2015)

babsbag said:


> My dairy goat group decided tonight that $10,000 is too much to pay for a buck; so there you have it.   What herd did he come from?  There was a guess that he came from Lakeshore Farms ???



Yes, it was Lakeshore.
So, your group decided that $10K is too much.  Didn't you hear he poops solid gold berries?


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 4, 2015)

Here he is.

http://adgaconvention.com/2015SS/lot9.html


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## Latestarter (Nov 4, 2015)

Wow, even the ad has hoof prints leading to a chest full of gold coins...


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 4, 2015)




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## OneFineAcre (Nov 4, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> Wow, even the ad has hoof prints leading to a chest full of gold coins...


We read on FB that a little brown barn spider made a web over his stall when he was born and wrote "some goat" in her web


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## frustratedearthmother (Nov 4, 2015)




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## Baymule (Nov 4, 2015)

Ya'll are too funny! Chest full of gold coins.... (snort) 

and a web over his stall that said "some goat" (spit iced tea on keyboard.. 

At least he is a pretty goat.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 4, 2015)

Baymule said:


> Ya'll are too funny! Chest full of gold coins.... (snort)
> 
> and a web over his stall that said "some goat" (spit iced tea on keyboard..
> 
> At least he is a pretty goat.


Someone else on FB said he was worth more than their car
Mairine am I totaled it up and he is worth more than all 3 of our cars/trucks
The least of which has 150k miles
The most has 230 k miles
We would be walking to buy him


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## Baymule (Nov 4, 2015)

Or......you could get goat cart and let him pull it.....


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 4, 2015)

Baymule said:


> Or......you could get goat cart and let him pull it.....


You wouldn't let a 10k goat pull a cart
Heck I would have to carry him piggy back to the ladies


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 7, 2015)

We went to a goat field day today
Good info on milking, cheese and soap making, fecals and AI
We went for the AI
I've got some great pics
Will load on my computer and post soon
Here is a sample


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## Baymule (Nov 7, 2015)

I love this site. Only on BYH can you post pictures that anywhere else would be gross or inappropriate. Here, we all learn from informative posts and pictures like these. I know that in AI, the straw is inserted, but didn't know the proper procedure, having never seen it done. Got more pics?


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 7, 2015)

Baymule said:


> I love this site. Only on BYH can you post pictures that anywhere else would be gross or inappropriate. Here, we all learn from informative posts and pictures like these. I know that in AI, the straw is inserted, but didn't know the proper procedure, having never seen it done. Got more pics?


I got a bunch of pics
And a lot of info to share about different techniques
I soaked up the info and asked a ton of questions
Saw my first goat cervix today
Just can't do but so much on the phone
Check back Monday


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## goatgurl (Nov 7, 2015)

@OneFineAcre i hope you go full steam ahead on the AI.  i loved all the choices i had in bucks and got some really nice animals that way.  if i can do it you can too. 
and in my humble opinion anyone who pays $10,000 for a baby buck needs their head examined, just sayin'


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## Latestarter (Nov 7, 2015)

But think of the possibilities... maybe YOU TOO could be selling $10,000 bucklings, all produced from $125 AI straws!!


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## Baymule (Nov 8, 2015)




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## OneFineAcre (Nov 9, 2015)

@Baymule
As promised some more pictures.

So, this "Field Day" was put on by the Johnston County Goat Producers with the help of the NC Extension Service and NC State University.
The young man doing the demonstration finished his Phd at NC State last year in animal science with a concentration on small ruminant reproduction.  NC State offers a 3 day class for $500 on AI for goats and he is one of the instructors.
They have a very specific technique they use and teach.  There is a goat unit at State and they use this protocol and have a good rate of success (about 60%).  But, keep in mind they are doing a high volume, the use hormones to sync heat and will inseminate 75 animals in one day.
If you are only going to do AI on 5 goats in your herd in a year, you can get better results than that.






You see how they have the goat standing on the ramp?.  If you have their front legs lower than their back legs it tends to make all of their internal organs shift forward, including the uterus which takes pressure off of he cervix.
That's why the do that.





You clean the vulva area really well and dry off thoroughly.  I did not know this but water is spermicidal.





He's holding a duck billed speculum.  They use a non spermicidal lubricant.





Of course the speculum has a light.






This picture is what makes this technique a little unusual.  You see in the picture the handles that look like scissors?  Those are for a "pozzi clamp".





This is what a pozzi clamp looks like.  They use this to grab the first ring of the cervix.  A goats cervix has 4 rings, but they are not always clearly aligned with each other.  By grabbing the first ring, you can manipulate it to ease the insertion of the catheter all the way through the cervix (which is about 1" long") into the  uterus.  Ideally you want to deposit the semen into the opening of the uterus.
So, he said that no one should attempt to use these clamps without being well trained in that you can do some damage with them.  I was thinking "You think?"

They actually make a hole about the size of an 18 gauge needle.  But, the cervix is made of cartilege and is non vascular (no blood vessels), no nerves so when you grab that ring, it does not hurt them.  But, everything from the vulva to the cervix is obviously very sensitive.





In the last picture you can see him trying to work the catheter through all 4 rings of the cervix.

So, of course we asked them how to do this with Nigerians.  He actually went to Haiti last year and AI'd a bunch of goats there to try to improve their genetics.  He said all of the goats there are small, so they do what they call a "poke and hope".
They use a tubular shaped speculum, and they don't use the pozzi clamp.  They just try to get the catheter or the semen gun tube through the cervix.

Sometimes if you can't get it all the way through the cervix, you have to make the decision to you go ahead an deposit the semen in the cervix.  You generally have lower success if you don't get it all the way into the uterus.

Now with that said, the next day we had our club meeting and no one uses the pozzi clamp.  They all use a tubular speculum and a semen gun.  Everyone I spoke to also just do AI on natural heat cycles with out the drugs
If you do a mature do who has kidded at least twice, and wait until her second heat of the fall say in Oct. and you are only doing two or 3, then over time they all say they have about a 70% success rate.
You may get 3 for 3 on year, 1 for 3 the next year.  Etc.


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## Ferguson K (Nov 9, 2015)

I wonder what the success rate is on ff vs seasoned does using the inclined technique.


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## babsbag (Nov 9, 2015)

I think that AI is a neat solution if you can do it yourself but too much work for me to have to take them somewhere to get it done. I have a friend that used to raise LMs 20+ years ago and she had her best buck "collected" and put in some tanks at various farms. Now she is back to raising LMs and she is able to get some straws of her buck and use them on her current does. How neat is that?

I am considering going to a class in a few months. If I was breeding my own does and could catch them every time they are in heat I don't think I would use the CIDR to synchronize the heats, those things are a little $$$. I can see the advantage of doing everyone in a day but I don't really want all my does kidding out on the same day either.

The tanks are expensive but I have friends that would give me space in their tanks so that is not an issue. No bucks to feed would be awesome and so would being able to raise minis without having to figure out how to breed the different sized goats. Could be a lot of fun.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 9, 2015)

Ferguson K said:


> I wonder what the success rate is on ff vs seasoned does using the inclined technique.



No one I have spoken to recommend doing AI on maiden does.
Much easier after a few kiddings and the cervix is more open.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 9, 2015)

babsbag said:


> I think that AI is a neat solution if you can do it yourself but too much work for me to have to take them somewhere to get it done. I have a friend that used to raise LMs 20+ years ago and she had her best buck "collected" and put in some tanks at various farms. Now she is back to raising LMs and she is able to get some straws of her buck and use them on her current does. How neat is that?
> 
> I am considering going to a class in a few months. If I was breeding my own does and could catch them every time they are in heat I don't think I would use the CIDR to synchronize the heats, those things are a little $$$. I can see the advantage of doing everyone in a day but I don't really want all my does kidding out on the same day either.
> 
> The tanks are expensive but I have friends that would give me space in their tanks so that is not an issue. No bucks to feed would be awesome and so would being able to raise minis without having to figure out how to breed the different sized goats. Could be a lot of fun.



You should probably look at my post again, I accidently submitted before I had finished.
Most folks that I know are not using drugs, just natural heats.  And they aren't trying to do AI on every animal every year.
Just selectively trying to get a good match, and then you can always keep a buck out the breeding.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 9, 2015)

Everyone says, that the protocol of how you thaw and handle the semen is also a big part of how successful you will be with AI.


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## babsbag (Nov 9, 2015)

Yep, I read before you were done. I like the idea of no pozzi clamp. That thing looks brutal.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 9, 2015)

babsbag said:


> Yep, I read before you were done. I like the idea of no pozzi clamp. That thing looks brutal.



Yes, my vet friend was at the meeting of our club yesterday.  He said to me "why don't you try grabbing your you know what with that thing".

He also thinks that the puncture it makes in the cervix can lead to scar tissue, and inhibit formation of a mucus plug.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 9, 2015)

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=B4AB1C48198363C7AF6DB4AB1C48198363C7AF6D

Actually after the field day I was thinking "no way" we could do that.
This video makes it seem much simpler.


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## babsbag (Nov 9, 2015)

My vet did a uterine flush on a goat for me a few years ago. She just slipped right in, didn't seem to have much problem getting through the cervix. She said the trick is to make sure they are truly in a good heat.

It is certainly something I have though about trying.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 9, 2015)

babsbag said:


> My vet did a uterine flush on a goat for me a few years ago. She just slipped right in, didn't seem to have much problem getting through the cervix. She said the trick is to make sure they are truly in a good heat.
> 
> It is certainly something I have though about trying.



We are definitely going to do it.
We got the semen tank from Maurine's dad for free.  He used to AI his cows but can't keep up with that any more at his age.  So, it wasn't being used.
Getting it checked out and filled with liquid nitrogen next week.
And, we are going back to another event sponsored by the Johnston County Goat Producers on November 30th.
Bio-gen will be there doing semen collection.  So, we are taking Rocky and Big Brown I think to have collected.
It's not cheap, about $225 per buck.  But, you can usually get I think around 30 straws.
We are doing this just for preservation of these guys in case something was to happen.
I've also been emailing someone about some semen to buy.  I think we may try to do Cookie and Coleus on AI this year.


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## Hens and Roos (Nov 9, 2015)

Good luck and keep us posted on how everything goes!


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## goatgurl (Nov 9, 2015)

i think i told you that i had done AI years back and all of this is just my humble opinion.  i never used hormones to induce a heat cycle because it just didn't seem to settle a doe as well.  i did my own insemination and knew my does so it was not a problem to catch them in heat.  and yes an older doe is usually easier to do because the cervix is more open but that said a doe who has kidded several times may have a cervix that is more misshapen and therefore harder to penetrate.  if a ff is in a full blown heat it is possible to get thru the cervix but not as easy as that doe who has freshened a couple of times.  i used a glass speculum which helped to 'gather' the light, a tiny pen light and a gun.  never let anyone tell you that it's ok to carry a straw around in your shirt pocket unless you don't care whether the semen is viable or not.  and if you came toward me with those pozzi clamps I'm thinking there would be a fight on.  we used those in surgery to clamp the sterile sheets to the patients skin.  i thought it was awful then and i think they are awful now.  and i agree with your vet who thinks they could cause scaring to the cervix.  btw i had a 75+% conception rate for most of the years i did AI.  I'm excited for youall and can't wait to see how you do and see those 'special babies'


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 9, 2015)

goatgurl said:


> i think i told you that i had done AI years back and all of this is just my humble opinion.  i never used hormones to induce a heat cycle because it just didn't seem to settle a doe as well.  i did my own insemination and knew my does so it was not a problem to catch them in heat.  and yes an older doe is usually easier to do because the cervix is more open but that said a doe who has kidded several times may have a cervix that is more misshapen and therefore harder to penetrate.  if a ff is in a full blown heat it is possible to get thru the cervix but not as easy as that doe who has freshened a couple of times.  i used a glass speculum which helped to 'gather' the light, a tiny pen light and a gun.  never let anyone tell you that it's ok to carry a straw around in your shirt pocket unless you don't care whether the semen is viable or not.  and if you came toward me with those pozzi clamps I'm thinking there would be a fight on.  we used those in surgery to clamp the sterile sheets to the patients skin.  i thought it was awful then and i think they are awful now.  and i agree with your vet who thinks they could cause scaring to the cervix.  btw i had a 75+% conception rate for most of the years i did AI.  I'm excited for youall and can't wait to see how you do and see those 'special babies'


Yes I remembered that you said you did AI and did not use drugs
Seems most of the folks I know feel the same way you do
I can understand why a large operation may do that but I agree for what we want to accomplish we will not do that
And no Pozzi clamp either


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 9, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> Yes I remembered that you said you did AI and did not use drugs
> Seems most of the folks I know feel the same way you do
> I can understand why a large operation may do that but I agree for what we want to accomplish we will not do that


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## Baymule (Nov 10, 2015)

Thank you so much for the pictures and the information. I now have a much better understanding of AI.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 10, 2015)

Baymule said:


> Thank you so much for the pictures and the information. I now have a much better understanding of AI.


Your welcome


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 12, 2015)

So the plan is to "collect"
Rocky and Big Brown to freeze their semen on Nov 20th
So they need to be cleaned up and clipped down around the business area to avoid contamination
All I know is my wife has a dirty job ahead of her


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## Latestarter (Nov 12, 2015)




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## babsbag (Nov 12, 2015)

Not the time of year I would want to clip and clean a buck  

I think that that is really exciting that you are getting setup to do this and the tank for free is a huge plus. I had a friend that bought a tank full of Alpine straws and we were going to practice on my does and then she was going to fill the tank with Boer straws. Well, somehow her tank got knocked over in her shed and that was the end of those straws. Would have been fun and some very good genetics too, and she had all the info on the straws for ADGA reg.   Maybe someday.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 12, 2015)

babsbag said:


> Not the time of year I would want to clip and clean a buck
> 
> I think that that is really exciting that you are getting setup to do this and the tank for free is a huge plus. I had a friend that bought a tank full of Alpine straws and we were going to practice on my does and then she was going to fill the tank with Boer straws. Well, somehow her tank got knocked over in her shed and that was the end of those straws. Would have been fun and some very good genetics too, and she had all the info on the straws for ADGA reg.   Maybe someday.


More specifically you are supposed to clean the prepuce or preputial sheath and clip around it and their abdomen in front of it.
You know, the nastiest part of a buck right about now.
Biggest issue with Rocky now is that we haven't used him on any does at this point, and ideally the buck has had some "work" before, but none a week before the collection
And, not sure if we need to bring a doe in heat.  Bio-gen doesn't do "electro ejaculation" in collection, you don't get the number of viable sperm cells.  They use a doe in heat and let the buck mount her and "divert".
We are trying to find out for sure, we know that there are some people that will be "luting" some does before the collection.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 12, 2015)

Latestarter said:


>



So, what's that TV show "Dirtiest Jobs"?
I think this would qualify.


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## Baymule (Nov 12, 2015)

Oh, so your _wife _has a dirty job ahead of her, huh?


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 12, 2015)

Baymule said:


> Oh, so your _wife _has a dirty job ahead of her, huh?



You know I just say it's her job on here.  I'm sure I'll be getting some stink on me too.


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## Baymule (Nov 12, 2015)

There are parts to animal husbandry that we just do, because that is what it takes. Most people have no clue about the food they eat. Over on TEG we got into a conversation about sheath cleaning on a horse. Only a couple of us could actually claim experience, the rest were aghast at what we described.


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## babsbag (Nov 12, 2015)

@Baymule   That is a pretty funny discussion for a gardening forum. Compost and manure might be about all of them want to know about animal husbandry.

@OneFineAcre It would for sure be my job at my house...they are MY goats, that just happen to make HIS cheese.


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## Mini Horses (Nov 12, 2015)

Well, just happened on this thread.   What memories!   I have never collected the goats  (Boer or Nubian) but bought some does that had been implanted with FB embryos. 

However, I used to collect my stallions & still have all the equipment to collect my mini horse stallions and have done so many, many times.   Used to check sperm before all breeding seasons, did some AI, etc.   Sheath cleaning?   Well, that was always a subject that brought giggles.   Yeah, you need the female in estrus to collect. 

I just feel the horse is the easier to handle as they were always trained from the beginning to have great ground manners and easy handling, even (especially) around mares.   Not in same class as the bucks.


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