# Rebreeding a third time or poor mother?



## Roseatebunny (May 12, 2021)

Hi,

I have a Netherland dwarf doe who has failed her first and second litter.

The first they were born dead.
The second she had only one and it died of cold outside the nest area.

Is there any point to breed her a third time?
Is she just a poor mother?

Are Netherland dwarfs hard to breed?
Or is it just that doe?

Ps. Both mum and dad are false dwarfs

Thank you,
Lauren


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## Kusanar (May 12, 2021)

Could you be having peanut issues? Breeding a true dwarf to a true dwarf?


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## Roseatebunny (May 12, 2021)

Kusanar said:


> Could you be having peanut issues? Breeding a true dwarf to a true dwarf?


strangely enough, both parents are false dwarfs.
so no possibility of peanuts


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## Kusanar (May 12, 2021)

Roseatebunny said:


> strangely enough, both parents are false dwarfs.
> so no possibility of peanuts


Ok, I'm not a rabbit breeder, but, if you own both the buck and the doe and it doesn't actually cost more to breed her again and you will be keeping her anyway, I would try again, you aren't really out anything. If you are trying to work this like a business and if she doesn't produce then she is culled, then it is your decision on if you want to give her another chance but I think I would.


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## Roseatebunny (May 12, 2021)

Kusanar said:


> Ok, I'm not a rabbit breeder, but, if you own both the buck and the doe and it doesn't actually cost more to breed her again and you will be keeping her anyway, I would try again, you aren't really out anything. If you are trying to work this like a business and if she doesn't produce then she is culled, then it is your decision on if you want to give her another chance but I think I would.


she is a pet and will not be culled.
I own both.

I think I will try again.
thank you


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## Cecilia's-herd (May 12, 2021)

Roseatebunny said:


> she is a pet and will not be culled.
> I own both.
> 
> I think I will try again.
> thank you


I mean what's the harm right?


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## Roseatebunny (May 12, 2021)

Ceciliasflock said:


> I mean what's the harm right?


I agree.
My step mum says your breeding animals to die.
but I want to give her another chance for young.


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## Kusanar (May 12, 2021)

Roseatebunny said:


> I agree.
> My step mum says your breeding animals to die.
> but I want to give her another chance for young.


If she was a bad mother to the point she was intentionally killing the babies then I would agree with her, but so far, she had an issue in pregnancy and her babies died, then she only had 1 which happens sometimes and single kits typically die due to not having anyone to share body heat with. If she KEEPS doing this then yes, you should stop, but so far she has had 2 issues that are likely unrelated.


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## Roseatebunny (May 12, 2021)

Kusanar said:


> If she was a bad mother to the point she was intentionally killing the babies then I would agree with her, but so far, she had an issue in pregnancy and her babies died, then she only had 1 which happens sometimes and single kits typically die due to not having anyone to share body heat with. If she KEEPS doing this then yes, you should stop, but so far she has had 2 issues that are likely unrelated.


I agree.

out of curiosity, can you pick up a pregnant rabbit?
live for it into my head from somewhere that you can't without killing the babies.


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## Kusanar (May 12, 2021)

Roseatebunny said:


> I agree.
> 
> out of curiosity, can you pick up a pregnant rabbit?
> live for it into my head from somewhere that you can't without killing the babies.


I'm not a rabbit breeder or owner (just studier) but I'm pretty sure you can. If she's the type to struggle then maybe not, but if you can calmly pick her up without her thrashing and without squeezing her it should be fine.


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## Roseatebunny (May 12, 2021)

Kusanar said:


> I'm not a rabbit breeder or owner (just studier) but I'm pretty sure you can. If she's the type to struggle then maybe not, but if you can calmly pick her up without her thrashing and without squeezing her it should be fine.


thank you.
She's super docile.
whether in a season or with babies. She's still fine.

She tried mating with my new bunny. Had to put her away, keep chasing it to mate again. She's heavily in season.

might try tomorrow.


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## secuono (May 12, 2021)

You can carry preg rabbits and palpate the gut to find them. Unless you're mashing them like a barbarian, they'll be fine.


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## Roseatebunny (May 12, 2021)

Hi everyone,
Followed your advice and Rebred her.

sent my step mum an email with your quotes and telling her I've done it.


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## WildersMilkMaid (May 13, 2021)

Roseatebunny said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a Netherland dwarf doe who has failed her first and second litter.
> 
> ...


I raise New Zealand but have run into this before. Sometimes it takes the moms a few times to figure things out, and in my experience they do improve. Make sure you have proper nesting boxes. It was recommended to me to use nesting boxes from wire mesh material, but the does could not figure out where to kindle, so they just had their babies on the floor of the cage. Like your one almost-surviving Kit, they died from exposure outside the nest. A nest with solid walls and plenty of fresh straw does the trick.

Pay attention to the timing you put the nesting box in. She needs plenty of time to nest, but if you put it in too early she will pee and poop in it, then not want to put her babies in the filth. I put mine in at the end of day 28, and they usually kindle day 30-31.

Don’t give up on her. If she is a pet anyway, might as well keep trying. Best of luck


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## Roseatebunny (May 13, 2021)

WildersMilkMaid said:


> I raise New Zealand but have run into this before. Sometimes it takes the moms a few times to figure things out, and in my experience they do improve. Make sure you have proper nesting boxes. It was recommended to me to use nesting boxes from wire mesh material, but the does could not figure out where to kindle, so they just had their babies on the floor of the cage. Like your one almost-surviving Kit, they died from exposure outside the nest. A nest with solid walls and plenty of fresh straw does the trick.
> 
> Pay attention to the timing you put the nesting box in. She needs plenty of time to nest, but if you put it in too early she will pee and poop in it, then not want to put her babies in the filth. I put mine in at the end of day 28, and they usually kindle day 30-31.
> 
> Don’t give up on her. If she is a pet anyway, might as well keep trying. Best of luck


I was recommended no nest box.
My parents won't buy one or make one anyway.

babies that are old enough to move about can't get back in themselves.
T he babies will be June 13 now. Warmer weather, more chance for me to rescue any stray kits.

unfortunately, this may has been coldest on record.


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## Kusanar (May 13, 2021)

Roseatebunny said:


> I was recommended no nest box.
> My parents won't buy one or make one anyway.
> 
> babies that are old enough to move about can't get back in themselves.
> ...


Who recommended not to use a nest box? I have NEVER heard of that being suggested as a good idea.


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## Cecilia's-herd (May 13, 2021)

Roseatebunny said:


> I was recommended no nest box.


Horrible plan. Awful. You can use a chicken nesting box if you are in a pinch


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## Tre3hugger (May 14, 2021)

If you have had 2 failed births with no nest box, it seems like a pretty important variable to just assume is not the issue. Not a single reason not to try a nest box on the next attempt. Here is a link for making one out of one piece of 1x10. My NZ, first time mom, is currently mothering her first litter in hers. 9 healthy babies.








						5 Easy Steps To Build Rabbit Nesting Box (Explained!) |
					

Rabbits usually make shallow burrows in the ground to give birth. This is their identical behavior. During the breeding period, the mom bunny shows peculiar…




					thehobbyzeal.com
				




For 3 weeks my kits have done nothing but utilize that nest box. They cuddle for warmth in it ALL DAY EVERY DAY, and it keeps them contained so mom can quickly feed them in a group twice daily. I don't see how a rabbit mom could be successful WITHOUT some sort of nest. 





And the lovely burrow she made/kindled in


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## Roseatebunny (May 16, 2021)

Tre3hugger said:


> If you have had 2 failed births with no nest box, it seems like a pretty important variable to just assume is not the issue. Not a single reason not to try a nest box on the next attempt. Here is a link for making one out of one piece of 1x10. My NZ, first time mom, is currently mothering her first litter in hers. 9 healthy babies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My parents have bred rabbits when they were young with no nest box.
therefore they argue I don't need one and won't let me do it.

I would love to, but they won't let me.

thanks anyway


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## Roseatebunny (May 16, 2021)

Kusanar said:


> Who recommended not to use a nest box? I have NEVER heard of that being suggested as a good idea.


My rabbit book.
The book of netherland dwarf.

My parents and grandparents who have bred successfuly for years.
they won't let me do it even though I wanted too.


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## Tre3hugger (May 16, 2021)

Alrighty. good luck with your buns!


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## LilTxFarmer (May 19, 2021)

Since your raising them as pets, then go ahead and give it another try but you really need to keep an eye on her come her due date, so the baby is not left out in the cold. Do you have a proper nesting box , to keep baby from coming out? I raise my rabbits for meat, so I only give them 2 chances to do it right or they go in the freezer.  And yes, you can pick up a pregnant moma but like Kusanar said, as long as she dosent put up a struggle...


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## Roseatebunny (May 20, 2021)

LilTxFarmer said:


> Since your raising them as pets, then go ahead and give it another try but you really need to keep an eye on her come her due date, so the baby is not left out in the cold. Do you have a proper nesting box , to keep baby from coming out? I raise my rabbits for meat, so I only give them 2 chances to do it right or they go in the freezer.  And yes, you can pick up a pregnant moma but like Kusanar said, as long as she dosent put up a struggle...


My parents won't let me get a nestbox.
It was a cold morning and mum has it outside nest


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## Tre3hugger (May 20, 2021)

Roseatebunny said:


> My parents won't let me get a nestbox.
> It was a cold morning and mum has it outside nest


How was it "outside the nest" if there is no nest? just wondering


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## Roseatebunny (May 20, 2021)

Tre3hugger said:


> How was it "outside the nest" if there is no nest? just wondering


you don't need to have a nest box for them to make a nest.
she made a nest in the bedding compartment.


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## Tre3hugger (May 20, 2021)

oh cool. Thank you for clarifying.


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## LilTxFarmer (May 21, 2021)

Roseatebunny said:


> My parents won't let me get a nestbox.
> It was a cold morning and mum has it outside nest


Why won't they let you get one, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Roseatebunny (May 21, 2021)

LilTxFarmer said:


> Why won't they let you get one, if you don't mind me asking?


they say that because they bred rabbits for years without it that I don't need it


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## LilTxFarmer (May 21, 2021)

Well, you know back in the early 70's, I raised New Zealand White's and I don't remember using nest boxes either but I do remember loosing a lot of babies and now, I know why. The box will protect them from crawling around, away from the fur, (I use hay in my best box, as well), which helps them keep warm!  How big is the pen or cage you keep them in?


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## Roseatebunny (May 21, 2021)

LilTxFarmer said:


> Well, you know back in the early 70's, I raised New Zealand White's and I don't remember using nest boxes either but I do remember loosing a lot of babies and now, I know why. The box will protect them from crawling around, away from the fur, (I use hay in my best box, as well), which helps them keep warm!  How big is the pen or cage you keep them in?


It's a medium single hutch. A bunny buisness single.
But I don't think there's enough room for a nest box and standing space in the bedding area.

Even if there was, they won't let me get one. I asked and they said I was being obsessive and didn't need it.
(I'm autistic).

I've caused rows trying to get it.


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## Tre3hugger (May 21, 2021)

Roseatebunny said:


> It's a medium single hutch. A bunny buisness single.
> But I don't think there's enough room for a nest box and standing space in the bedding area.
> 
> Even if there was, they won't let me get one. I asked and they said I was being obsessive and didn't need it.
> ...


Sorry your parents are being so stubborn. I hope your bunny figures it out and you get some live babies this time. Do let us know how it goes for her.


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## Roseatebunny (Jun 13, 2021)

Hi, my doe had a kit yesterday, it has survived the night!!!


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## Tre3hugger (Jun 13, 2021)

Awesome. How's it doing?


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## Roseatebunny (Jun 14, 2021)

Day two and still doing well!!!


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## Tre3hugger (Jun 14, 2021)

Did she only have one, or did only one make it?


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## Roseatebunny (Jun 14, 2021)

Tre3hugger said:


> Did she only have one, or did only one make it?


She only have birth to one.


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## Tre3hugger (Jun 14, 2021)

So happy you got the baby you were hoping for


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## Roseatebunny (Jun 14, 2021)

Tre3hugger said:


> So happy you got the baby you were hoping for


Thanks,
unfortunately, I can only keep it if it's a girl.
worst case scenario I'll keep a baby from her nest year.

I'm happy she can raise her babies now. means she can breed next year!


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## Roseatebunny (Jun 15, 2021)

Turns out there is not one.
there's two or three!!!

the nest is really deep. So I could only make out one before. Or they have babies dad apart?

The babies have both black and pink skin.
so maybe back and white? Maybe the buck was a non visual Dutch marked?


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