# How to tame a wild beef calf



## Rammy (Mar 7, 2018)

Hello:

New here. I got some Angus heifers this year that have not been messed with. They are 4 months old. I have been trying to tame them down by handfeeding and just trying to touch them to get used to me. One has already run thru the fence when she first came. We got her back and she is locked up in a stall right now.
The other three<we have 4> are doing a little better. Two have let me touch them on the nose, and one licked my finger. I guess that's a good sign? 
We are trying to train them to come when its feeding time. Right now, we have them in a small fenced in area<the rest of the pasture is hotwire>, but they wont come. I have to go walk behind them to get them into the stall. 
Any suggestions as to how to tame them down a little? I want them to come when called before letting them out onto the rest of the pasture.

Rammy


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## Latestarter (Mar 7, 2018)

Greetings and welcome to BYH! So glad you joined us. There's a wealth of info, knowledge and experience shared in the multitude of threads. I'll tag a couple of our cow folks and hopefully the'll stop in with some ideas/suggestions. Browse around and see what interesting stuff you can find. By all means post away when the desire strikes you, especially if you have questions (provide as much detail/info as possible and pictures truly help)... With all the great folks here, generally someone will respond in no time at all. Please make yourself at home! Please consider taking a minute to visit the new member's thread and introduce yourself so folks can welcome you properly. https://www.backyardherds.com/forums/new-member-introductions.17/

PLEASE put at least your general location in your profile. It could be very important if/when you ask for or offer help or advice. You know, climate issues and such. I recommend at least your state as most folks won't be able to figure out where if you put anything more specific (county, town, street, etc) by itself.  Old folks like me   will never remember & look there first. To add it, mouse hover over Account top right and a drop down will appear. Click on Personal Details and scan down. You'll see the spot for Location. Then go to the bottom and save changes.  Thanks! Hope you enjoy the site!

@Wehner Homestead @greybeard @farmerjan @WildRoseBeef @GLENMAR & I know there are others...

This would have been better posted to: https://www.backyardherds.com/forums/behaviors-handling-techniques-cattle.8/ @Sumi could you move it there please?


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 7, 2018)

Love my cows! Now, about your calves. They need called the same way every time. All of ours learn to come to “suh calf, cmon girls, swoa.” All said with a deep, masculine voice!  I’m female so I struggle to get deep enough. They usually look at me and go back to grazing since we started having human kids and DH calls them all the time. He says it once and they RUN for the barn paddock where their feeders are. These are our brood cows that don’t get fed grain very often. 

Taking them is a whole other topic. (IMHO: Angus are nuts!  Not everyone agrees but we had some and culled because they’d charge you. I also tried breaking some in my 4-H days and decided I’d rather live.) Sniffing your hand is a good sign. The one by itself won’t calm down. They have to be with another bovine. They are herd animals. When it comes to taming them, try using a pen in the barn that isn’t big enough for them to run and enclosed on all four sides with barn walls or livestock gates. Sit on a bucket with hay at your feet while reading to them, talking, or singing county/gospel songs (they don’t like heavy metal or rap.) They’ll become accustomed to the sound of your voice and will be curious about the hay and make their way to you. 

When they are eating, dump the feed from in the pen, into their feeder so that they have to come up beside you. Don’t take your eye off them though. The idea isn’t to get tromped. Talk to them the whole time they eat. They’ll eye you at first and eat slowly but get used to you. Once they appear relaxed at all, reach out and touch the closest one on the top of the shoulder. Be rough. They have a thick hide! Scratch hard. They’ll discover quickly that they like it. Be prepared for the one you touch to jump and/or run backwards. The others may move away in succession also. You can also walk behind them while they are eating and scratch their tail heads. This is something they usually like but until they figure out that you aren’t trying to hurt them, be prepared for them to jump forward, rush backward, and/or kick. Keep in mind they can kick the length of the leg (tip of their hoof to their hip.) The closer you are, the less force they can get behind a kick. When taking several, remaining close can put you in a dangerous spot as they all get jumpy. Sometimes it’s better to lean in as much as you can to stay in a “safe zone.” Some use a curry comb to give their hand a little extra length. Most cattle like the comb too as it easily gets rough enough to actually feel good instead of startling. 

Most cattle have a sweet spot, you just have to find it and you’ll have them in your pocket in no time. The whole back (use both hands to span the distance and scratch hard with all your fingertips), the tailhead, the sides of the tail, and the brisket. Once you get their sweet spot you’ll know because they’ll move with you or start licking their nose or something in front of them with their tongue. 

It’s fine to let them sniff your hand but we don’t recommend scratching heads as you can encourage them to want to play. No biggie when they are little but when they weigh 1500+#, that’s a dangerous toy. 

If they try to put their head down to you to play or shake their head at you, grab an ear roughly. It gets their attention quickly and most jump back. Usually by the third time, they don’t try again as they don’t want their ears grabbed. 

We’d love to see pics of them and of course, updates are now required. Don’t be afraid to ask anything. We will help where we can. You can also tag us if you’d like us to find your post faster. 

Did I mention pics? We like pics!


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## Rammy (Mar 7, 2018)

Thank you for the suggestions. I will definitly try those.
Right now, I say Here,Cow, when calling them. I saw a youtube video where this guy used a few hay bale ropes tied together and used it to touch the cows with. I tried that and it actually worked. I was able to touch them, one more than others. One did try to kick but I wasnt close enough.
When they get put into the stall at night, I put the feed in the trough and say the Here, Cow. Next time I will talk to them.
The stall they are in is 12 x 16. There are 3 calves/ heifers. Yes, Angus are stupid. Nutjobs. What was I thinking? 
A farmer who raises these told me not to let them into the main pasture until they come when called. Im not so sure they will. I guess I will sit on a pail with some sweet feed surrounded by hay. I will have to lower my voice when calling them I guess. Its pretty high right now for a girl. Haha!
I probably will refer to this reply alot and any others that might have suggestions. I think next year I will find some nice bottle fed Jerseys. We had those last year and one followed me around like a puppy dog and sucked on my shirt.
( banging head against the wall). 

Rammy


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## Baymule (Mar 7, 2018)

are you keeping these to breed for more calves or just raising them up to market size? 

do you have a loading or working chute? Maybe you could run them up in it and scratch them in the chute. If you don't have one, cowpanels make a great "instant chute". LOL You just have to have a good gate or way to close it and make sure you can point them back in the pen you have them in. Maybe you could feed them or offer a treat in the chute. Maybe you could move them through the chute from pen to another, feed them half rations, then move them back through the chute again to feed them the rest. This would teach them that the chute isn't going to eat them. LOL


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 7, 2018)

We have some wonderful cross girls, some Shorthorns, and Simmentals. Maines are great too but they are typically more of a show breed. Chi are mostly high strung but HUGE babies if you can conquer them. 

We have 17 cows and of those, we can walk up and scratch 13 of them, 2 more will let us get close enough to sniff our hand, the remaining 2 tolerate us (one of which is high on my cull list and the other was half crazy when we bought her as an adult but has come around enough to not run, live calf every year, and they are breakable for show so she gets to stay.)


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## greybeard (Mar 7, 2018)

With cattle, I don't do pets, don't do 'cute' and don't do 'treats'. 

Having said that, I can get every of my cows, calves and bull to come to my voice, unless they are already busy eating feed. 

Getting them to come to you just because you call them as a pet dog would is not going to happen...they aren't mentally wired like that.

They have to become trained to equate you (and your voice) to something their mentality can readily understand, and that thing is feed.  

It doesn't matter how you call them. It's like the old saying.."You can call me anything you want, but don't call me late for supper". 
One of my neighbors just whistles and his come..I just call COOOWWWS! and whatever might be between me and them better get out of the way. 

I do not like to feed right out of a bucket. Most buckets are too small for a calf's head and they start fighting the bucket. I feed in a trough and while they have their heads down eating, i reach over and touch them on the neck, very gently and very slowly. A few strokes, then stop. Then again. They'll jump back as soon as they raise their heads and see it's you, but do it enough times every time you feed and they'll eventually get used to it and not see you as a threat. I do this from their side at first, not straight in front of them. You reach toward a calf's eye view, and they will just back off. (They more readily accept a touch from the side because they were used to their mother reaching back, nudging them or licking them while they nursed) 

Closest I come to using treats is range cubes/ pressed cottonseed cake. 
Good protein, pretty inexpensive and cattle love them. 20% or higher and usually less than $10/50lbs. 
I know you are in Tennessee and from other conversations I know there are parts of Tenn and Ky that cubes just aren't carried in feed stores or even in places like TSC or SS. Dunno why, but they aren't. I take it out in the pasture in a 5 gal bucket or 2 and call, and they come running. I pour it on the ground most times in a long string or separate piles, and that's the way it was made to be fed. It's like crack to cows...they can't resist it.


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## Rammy (Mar 8, 2018)

Baymule said:


> are you keeping these to breed for more calves or just raising them up to market size?
> 
> do you have a loading or working chute? Maybe you could run them up in it and scratch them in the chute. If you don't have one, cowpanels make a great "instant chute". LOL You just have to have a good gate or way to close it and make sure you can point them back in the pen you have them in. Maybe you could feed them or offer a treat in the chute. Maybe you could move them through the chute from pen to another, feed them half rations, then move them back through the chute again to feed them the rest. This would teach them that the chute isn't going to eat them. LOL




We are raising them to sell later on when they get big enough. Mostly, I got them to keep the grass eaten down in my pasture now that my horse I had for 33 years passed away two years ago. I put up a pic as my avatar of the cows we had last year. Will get some of the new girls up as soon as I can.
Thats a good idea about the fencing. I dont have a chute. Im just a small, got a few acres. lets put animals on it, kinda farmer. Mostly I have chickens.
It would be nice to do a chute. I have panels, but am using them to funnel the girls out to the chicken yard so they can get out until I can get them to come when I call. I dont want to have to chase these things around the neighborhood again. 

Thank you all for your suggestions. They are really great!!

Rammy


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## Rammy (Mar 8, 2018)

greybeard said:


> With cattle, I don't do pets, don't do 'cute' and don't do 'treats'.
> 
> Having said that, I can get every of my cows, calves and bull to come to my voice, unless they are already busy eating feed.
> 
> ...




Last night I did this string thing I saw on youtube and it worked pretty well. I have one that seems to be a kicker and more shy than the rest but think I can get her to come around. I will do your suggestion tonight. I have been trying to touch them while feeding in a trough, no bucket, and when they first came, forget it. Last night was the first time I could touch a few of them at length since we got them. Im hoping that they will equate my calling them and touching them with food soon. Not to optomistic right now. 

Rammy


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## Rammy (Mar 8, 2018)

P.S. 
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and advice. Mostly, Im looking to just get them calmed down, be able to handle them some, and get them to come when called so they dont run thru the fence again and I can put them up if need be. Im not looking to make them pets or show them, just be able to safetly handle them if the need arises. I definitely will try some of the suggestions and hopefully they will see that Im not going to hurt them and hey, this lady gives us feed, hmmmm. Frankly, the one that escaped and is at my neighbors for the time being, is named Freezer Queen, if you get my drift. Once he gets her calmed down, she will probably come back. I just hope she doesnt try to run the fence again. I think she knows she can go thru it. We put up more wire and have a good hot box on it but if they want out, nothings going to stop them.


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## greybeard (Mar 8, 2018)

> but if they want out, nothings going to stop them.



Rammy..you're absolutely right.....any cow/calf, bull or steer 'can' go thru/under/ or over any fence at any time if it really wants to. Most tho, are perfectly content to stay put as long as they have plenty of forage and as long as mating doesn't play into the picture.

Every once in awhile tho, you'll run into a highhead that just won't calm down..walks around the pasture with it's head up, looking around and will run every time a human enters the pasture and even starts it's way. It's a cullable trait. It's also an inheritable trait. Her progeny are apt to be the same way. Those kind take a one way trip down the road at my place, no matter how good a calf they raise or anything else.


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## Rammy (Mar 8, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Rammy..you're absolutely right.....any cow/calf, bull or steer 'can' go thru/under/ or over any fence at any time if it really wants to. Most tho, are perfectly content to stay put as long as they have plenty of forage and as long as mating doesn't play into the picture.
> 
> Every once in awhile tho, you'll run into a highhead that just won't calm down..walks around the pasture with it's head up, looking around and will run every time a human enters the pasture and even starts it's way. It's a cullable trait. It's also an inheritable trait. Her progeny are apt to be the same way. Those kind take a one way trip down the road at my place, no matter how good a calf they raise or anything else.




You are right. Thats why Freezer Queen is pre-destined to be on my BBQ this fall.  With all the information I have gotten from everyone who has replied so far, I think I can hopefully calm these others down. When I can get them to come in when its feeding time, I think it will be ok to let them out into the larger field. I may try bread as a treat. Ive seen where others have used that to get them to trust you. 
Tonight Im going to do the suggestions about touching them when feeding. Hopefully in a few more days they will change their mind about me. 

Rammy


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## Baymule (Mar 8, 2018)

Haha I forgot about bread. When I had cows all we had to do was shake a bread sack and they came running. We got the old bread from the day old bread store.


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## farmerjan (Mar 8, 2018)

All the suggestions are valid and most are from people with cattle so they know.  I will take exception with the "angus are wild "  mentality, though.  We have them, just commercial cattle, and don't find them to be any worse than any other in general.  We have had some that are "high-headed" and looking for a way out, but have had that in most all the different breeds and crosses from time to time.  The worst one we ever had was a hereford heifer that we bought bred.  She would take off for oshgosh as soon as she saw you.  We ran her with out quietest and calmest cows and after nearly a year, with her raising her calf, she made the mistake of coming in the pen and my son was in the field with the truck and he drove it right up to the opening and we got her caught and on the trailer.  Her calf was skittish but not near as bad as her.
  Most of our cattle will come running to a bucket.  It doesn't matter whether my son or I call. We sound different but they know that being called is a good thing,  "oh my, we get feed....." If you are doing the calling being consistent is good but use your regular voice.  We call, "hey girls, comeon cows,"  and we also whistle sometimes.  They hear the truck and come....

How long have you been trying to "tame" them?  It will take several weeks at least to where they are comfortable to not spook if they were raised on cows and just weaned and sold to you.  Yes there are some that are more skittish by nature.  But keeping it separate is not good.  They take comfort in the "herd mentality".  

One thing about freezer queen.... the high strung attitude may make her the worst candidate for the freezer.  The high adrenaline will adversely affect the meat.  She would be my last choice to keep to eat.

I also have some dairy cows that I raise nurse calves on.  Jerseys, guernseys and crosses.  But there is one calf that is on one of the cows that is a nut case and I am around them everyday twice a day.  Go figure...  the rest I have to shove out of they way to get feed in the trough for the nurse cows to come into the pen for.


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## Rammy (Mar 8, 2018)

farmerjan said:


> All the suggestions are valid and most are from people with cattle so they know.  I will take exception with the "angus are wild "  mentality, though.  We have them, just commercial cattle, and don't find them to be any worse than any other in general.  We have had some that are "high-headed" and looking for a way out, but have had that in most all the different breeds and crosses from time to time.  The worst one we ever had was a hereford heifer that we bought bred.  She would take off for oshgosh as soon as she saw you.  We ran her with out quietest and calmest cows and after nearly a year, with her raising her calf, she made the mistake of coming in the pen and my son was in the field with the truck and he drove it right up to the opening and we got her caught and on the trailer.  Her calf was skittish but not near as bad as her.
> Most of our cattle will come running to a bucket.  It doesn't matter whether my son or I call. We sound different but they know that being called is a good thing,  "oh my, we get feed....." If you are doing the calling being consistent is good but use your regular voice.  We call, "hey girls, comeon cows,"  and we also whistle sometimes.  They hear the truck and come....
> 
> How long have you been trying to "tame" them?  It will take several weeks at least to where they are comfortable to not spook if they were raised on cows and just weaned and sold to you.  Yes there are some that are more skittish by nature.  But keeping it separate is not good.  They take comfort in the "herd mentality".
> ...


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## greybeard (Mar 8, 2018)

> posted by farmerjanAll the suggestions are valid and most are from people with cattle so they know. I will take exception with the "angus are wild " mentality, though. We have them, just commercial cattle, and don't find them to be any worse than any other in general. We have had some that are "high-headed" and looking for a way out, but have had that in most all the different breeds and crosses from time to time. The worst one we ever had was a hereford heifer that we bought bred. She would take off for oshgosh as soon as she saw you. We ran her with out quietest and calmest cows and after nearly a year, with her raising her calf, she made the mistake of coming in the pen and my son was in the field with the truck and he drove it right up to the opening and we got her caught and on the trailer. Her calf was skittish but not near as bad as her.
> Most of our cattle will come running to a bucket. It doesn't matter whether my son or I call. We sound different but they know that being called is a good thing, "oh my, we get feed....." If you are doing the calling being consistent is good but use your regular voice. We call, "hey girls, comeon cows," and we also whistle sometimes. They hear the truck and come....
> 
> How long have you been trying to "tame" them? It will take several weeks at least to where they are comfortable to not spook if they were raised on cows and just weaned and sold to you. Yes there are some that are more skittish by nature. But keeping it separate is not good. They take comfort in the "herd mentality".
> ...





> posted by RammyIm just mad at Freezer Queen. When she ran thru the fence the first day, she got in with the neighbirs horses, escaped into the farmers feild next to that, and he git her into a corral. She crawled out of that by going under the corral gate and got in with his cows.
> Ive been trying to tame them fir about a week and a half. I use my regular voice when calling. I think these were pulled off their mother and brought up to me. I dont think they were handled at all.
> I was able to touch them a little last night but they are still pretty spooky.
> The chicken yard doesnt have much grass in it. How much grain should I feed? I also have hay Im giving them.
> ...


(I fixed the ubb tags)


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 8, 2018)

Sorry about my opinion on Angus @farmerjan. I tried to make it clear that I knew everyone didn’t share the same opinion. I don’t plan on ever purchasing another.


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## greybeard (Mar 8, 2018)

Nor do I, and for the same reason.
In the 60s, Angus were definitely not known for their docility.
About 1966, maybe '67, I went in debt to my father to buy a registered Angus heifer. A more  stubborn, troublesome and more savagerous beast I've never seen. Bred her twice to a good Angus bull one of my neighbors had. Her 1st calf was my first bottle calf. Her 2nd calf was my last bottle calf.
I suppose I should thank her tho. She made me immune to black hide fever.


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## Rammy (Mar 9, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Nor do I, and for the same reason.
> In the 60s, Angus were definitely not known for their docility.
> About 1966, maybe '67, I went in debt to my father to buy a registered Angus heifer. A more  stubborn, troublesome and more savagerous beast I've never seen. Bred her twice to a good Angus bull one of my neighbors had. Her 1st calf was my first bottle calf. Her 2nd calf was my last bottle calf.
> I suppose I should thank her tho. She made me immune to black hide fever.




Thats a good story.


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## Rammy (Mar 9, 2018)

greybeard said:


> (I fixed the ubb tags)




Thanks!!


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## farmerjan (Mar 9, 2018)

I am laughing about the "angus" memories.   I got some brangus/santa gertrudis/ something calves many years ago when you all were going through that horrible drought in Texas and surrounding states.  There were a bunch of nice calves that wound up going through our stockyard sale .  About 200 lbs.  It was announced that they were from a drought stricken area and that the cows had been culled.  I liked red and so we bought several.  They were the stubborness thick headed calves I have ever tried to raise.  They did have alot of strikes against them by being taken off their mommas at the worst possible size and age.  Didn't want bottles, weren't really wanting or ready for grain.... We worked hard to save them and only lost 2 out of the 10 or 12 we got.  I felt sorry for them but boy, were they a trial.  Except for that priceless hereford.  Funny thing is, we still have the other hereford we bought with her, it was a little older cow and she is getting up in age.

Ever deal with Chianina cattle?  Talk about moody and attitudes.  They are stubborn like Brown Swiss.  But they get so big and tall.  They make great oxen for pulling, but they work when they want to.  

Funny how we all have our "preferred" breeds;  and stories to go along with them.  I just was trying to make a statement that not all angus are difficult or bad dispositioned.


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 9, 2018)

@farmerjan I love the stories! (I enjoyed @greybeard story too.) I now have to add a few more of my own...

A cross was bought for my younger brother when in 4-H. He was red/white like the older Simms were and had the attitude from you know where. Papaw didn’t believe us kids until he cornered him!  Dad already had him scheduled to ship!

DH showed chianianas! They could be headstrong but once you won them over, they were like putty. His always ended up being huge babies for him. They showed well as they were wound up with everything at the shows and kept their heads high. He could muscle them around some too so it worked out well. There’s some chi influence in our herd as there typically is with show cattle. Not something I want a young kid showing though. 

More breeds....hmmm...our black baldies are almost always the tamest animals on the farm, like pocket pets!


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## greybeard (Mar 9, 2018)

Every cattleperson should own a few F-1 tigers (especially out of a Cherokee bull)  once in their life.....
As they say...Hybrid vigor is nothing compared to hybrid attitude.


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## Baymule (Mar 10, 2018)

I love F-1 tigers! We had some many years ago and they were the prettiest, sweetest cows that had nice calves. My ex-father in law had a Cherokee bull that was drop dead gorgeous and he couldn't bellow! Nope, no deep bellow from that bull! He had a high pitched squeak that always made us laugh. Thanks for that memory @greybeard!


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## Rammy (Mar 13, 2018)

These are great! Good news on the girls. They came in last night when I called. Not sure, tho, if its just because they were close to the barn and saw the new feed I got them, or they are finally getting used to me calling, Here, Cow!! Common, Girls! Come and get it!  Hopefully, in a few more weeks, when I know for sure they are coming in when I call, I can let them out on the pasture. Ive got it all ready!!


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## greybeard (Mar 13, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I love F-1 tigers! We had some many years ago and they were the prettiest, sweetest cows that had nice calves. My ex-father in law had a Cherokee bull that was drop dead gorgeous and he couldn't bellow! Nope, no deep bellow from that bull! He had a high pitched squeak that always made us laugh. Thanks for that memory @greybeard!


Best mommas ever put on this Earth and bring good $$ in cattle country. Dad had some when I was younger....with them, we didn't have to check on them for days or even weeks at a time.  They won't win no 'cute' contest, but easy keepers/easy doers/easy workers tho they could be a handful if they had a calf by their side. Then, you find out real quick where the tiger in tigerstripe really comes from. With calves, best to work them from horseback in open pasture. They'd kill any dog that came close to em. They're just that protective.
That country down between Winnie and the Gulf used to be full of them and so was my county when we were still open range.
I'd love to have some here, but they just cost too much. I could almost buy 2 Beefmasters or Brangus bred heifers for what a Tiger goes for.
They're worth every penny, but I can't personally justify it at my age.
http://www.cattlerange.com/801C151-201/801C152-201.html
http://www.cattlerange.com/710C618-201/710C618-201.html


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 13, 2018)

I’d wondered what a Tigerstripe was...definitely not common in my area. Interesting.


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## greybeard (Mar 13, 2018)

Brafords usually, and not all Brafords are tigerstripes but 1/2 Brahamn-1/2 Herford is not really considered a tiger. A real Braford Tiger is  3/8 Brahman and 5/8 Hereford. Not all calves will be Tigerstripe..some will be motlled and some will be red baldies. 
Tigerstripe and brindle are not the same thing. You can get brindle coat out of lots of different pairings, using just about any breed (I have a brindle beefmaster..and the heifer I posted a pic of from county fair was one of my brindled Beefmasters) 
There's only one true F1 Tigerstripe and that's Braford, tho I have seen a Brahman/Simm cross that came close to the same thing.  You cannot get a F1 Braford calf from mating a full blood Braford bull to a full blood Braford cow..Braford bulls are not terminal bulls. 
Pound of gain for dollar input, year after year, nothing will beat 'em on pasture or their calves at  sale. 
Breed the F1 calves back to Hereford, Angus or Chars and you get both good mothering and steers that will mash the scales down with good grade to boot. 
Great representation of the breed standard at show..as close to the perfect F1 Tiger as you will find. Long, tall, thick and wide:










http://pulse.sullivansupply.com/houston-stock-show-open-braford-f1-female/


No, probably not very popular in your area.


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## Baymule (Mar 13, 2018)

Wow, I had no idea they were that high!


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## greybeard (Mar 13, 2018)

Quality and longevity ain't cheap..


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## Rammy (Mar 14, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Brafords usually, and not all Brafords are tigerstripes but 1/2 Brahamn-1/2 Herford is not really considered a tiger. A real Braford Tiger is  3/8 Brahman and 5/8 Hereford. Not all calves will be Tigerstripe..some will be motlled and some will be red baldies.
> Tigerstripe and brindle are not the same thing. You can get brindle coat out of lots of different pairings, using just about any breed (I have a brindle beefmaster..and the heifer I posted a pic of from county fair was one of my brindled Beefmasters)
> There's only one true F1 Tigerstripe and that's Braford, tho I have seen a Brahman/Simm cross that came close to the same thing.  You cannot get a F1 Braford calf from mating a full blood Braford bull to a full blood Braford cow..Braford bulls are not terminal bulls.
> Pound of gain for dollar input, year after year, nothing will beat 'em on pasture or their calves at  sale.
> ...




That is one of the biggest cows Ive ever seen. Beautiful. Definitely wouldnt want to see that coming at me in a pasture! Mine are coming along but still skittish. Hopefully, they will see Im the nice lady who gives them tasty grain soon! 

Rammy


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## WildRoseBeef (Mar 14, 2018)

I have the same sentiments on Angus cattle. They're dumb nutters who tend to get more panicky and high-headed then some of the other breeds I've worked with, though I've also dealt with some Simmentals and Charolais (one of my least-favorite breed too as far as temperament is concerned) that get pretty high-headed too no matter what you do to tame them. And for heaven's sake don't get me started on Limousin... 

I won't repeat much of the advice already given for those heifers, but what I do is to just take some time--and not keep to any regular schedule, it's usually almost always whenever I feel like it--to hang out with the animals and talk to them quietly (I don't do the deeper-voice thing LOL, I just talk normally though my voice isn't nearly as high as some women's get, so I guess most would say I do talk low to them, even though I'm not even making an effort to try), and let them move around as they please. I'll either just stand around or walk around calmly, not ever making an effort to try to pet any of them. That comes much later. My main concern when I get them used to me is just getting used to my presence and my voice, that's it. I don't care about wanting to pet them or anything, especially at first.  

I'll also take a half-arm full of hay and put it out for them, then stand back far enough that I'm not in their flight zone so that they'll come up to eat. Of course I've been more used to working with ~80 head of steers than just a few, so the brave ones that are first to come up are the first to get the hay, and I don't object. 

The times when I can touch one, I start from the chin and work down the jaw, only going as far as they'll let me. I never try to scratch the forehead. If I can get to the neck, great, if not, ah well that's okay. Very rarely do I get to scratch over the shoulders and back, but that's just because I don't push for the intention of doing that anyway. Again, my primary concern is to just get them used to my presence, and if I succeed in that, that's most excellent, and the best I can ask for. 

My call is usually something along the lines of, "Come calf! Come calf!" But even then when they just see me out there, I don't even have to call to get them to come running for me LOL.


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## Rammy (Mar 14, 2018)

Thats good advice. Last night, with my little 2 x 2 stick, I was able to touch some pretty good. Scratched the neck and the sides some. Figured I use it as an extension of my arm to keep out of kicking range. Mostly I would like to just get them to come when I call. So far, they have only done it once. I do talk to them when Im out there. I have to work during the day, but on weekends, and when I get home, I go out and talk to them, walk around, just stand there and let them see me. I do my normal voice. I can do low, but I sound funny.


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## greybeard (Mar 14, 2018)

WildRoseBeef said:


> though I've also dealt with some Simmentals and Charolais (one of my least-favorite breed too as far as temperament is concerned) that get pretty high-headed too no matter what you do to tame them. And for heaven's sake don't get me started on Limousin...



I hear that about Chars and Simms a lot, but it hasn't been my experience, but mine are a Char/simm cross..not straight bred either breed. Mine are all dog gentle. Of course, talking to some that got into the Chars way back, I also hear the old "I wore out a dozen sets of chains at calving and pulled lots of dead ones" thing. Most of those heifer killing Char bulls have been bred out of existence nowadays.

Limousin never really caught on here much except in a few crossbred programs.

Rammy, sounds like you are making progress, but let's go down the road aways..months down the road to a little problem many don't think about. . If you value peace & quiet, avoid  feeding them or giving them treats every single time you go out in the yard. Before you know it, each time they see you come out of the house, they'll be standing at the fence bawling/bellering their heads off expecting you to give them something. Especially true if you have something in your hand...like a gas can, a toolbox,  or a bucket of any kind. Take a sack of dogfood out of your vehicle and they see it, the bellering will start. Got a big backpack in your hand..the bellering will begin.  No need to keep priming the well after the water is flowing...........
You'll want them to get used to 'sometimes, you don't get anything to eat'.


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## Rammy (Mar 15, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Rammy, sounds like you are making progress, but let's go down the road aways..months down the road to a little problem many don't think about. . If you value peace & quiet, avoid feeding them or giving them treats every single time you go out in the yard. Before you know it, each time they see you come out of the house, they'll be standing at the fence bawling/bellering their heads off expecting you to give them something. Especially true if you have something in your hand...like a gas can, a toolbox, or a bucket of any kind. Take a sack of dogfood out of your vehicle and they see it, the bellering will start. Got a big backpack in your hand..the bellering will begin. No need to keep priming the well after the water is flowing...........
> You'll want them to get used to 'sometimes, you don't get anything to eat'.





Yeah! Thats good to know. Silly things still just look at me with that blank, HUH? Stare when I call them. On one hand I can touch them with my stick, then I do my hand and scratch them until they move away. Then the next day they dont want me anywhere near them. A little frustrating but hopefully wont be much longer til they see me as the goodie lady. 
We only intend to feed them grain to get them to come in. Once we do that Im going to back off feeding them only couple time a week to nothing since they will be on grass most of the summer. Then in the fall when we plan on selling them feed them back up to get them ready. Thats what we did with the cows last year. Thank you all for your great advice! This really helps!!
Rammy


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