# Angoras for meat?



## Abbey

Anyone here breed angoras for meat? I work with fiber and have always wanted to raise meat rabbits. Can these two fields cross? French angoras were originally duel purpose. I have a french and an english buck. I am hoping to locate a German doe or a German/English hybrid. I would like to breed them, shear the coats from the kits before slaughter, thus getting both meat and fiber from them. Everyone laughs at me though, they say angoras are way too much work to raise for meat. I am not going crazy here, just one doe breeding through the summer. Just curious if anyone else has done this. Also, has anyone had good luck pasturing rabbits?


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## sonnythebunny

Abbey said:
			
		

> has anyone had good luck pasturing rabbits?


do you mean a colony?


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## pennylove

I raise French Angoras for meat/wool/show. While French Angoras are, absolutely, a dual-purpose breed, they definitely are more work than other meat breeds. Typical slaughter-age for a FA is 8-12 weeks and at that age, their coat is immature. It's still "baby wool" (meaning they haven't been through their first moult and are not growing adult wool) and the staple length is pretty short, at most 3". For spinning and fiber arts, the ideal staple length is 4" or more and show length is 4 1/2" or more. So, to use a litter for both wool and meat, you'll really need to raise them to five or six months of age. When you add in the additional cost of feed and cage space for to accommodate an entire litter for that time, they become significantly less economical than other meat breeds, as well. 

I raise my FA does in a colony, with the bucks in cages with them. That way my breeding program is still controlled, there's no in-fighting, but my rabbits are exceptionally healthy and my investments, in terms of both time and equipment, are low. I do allow my rabbits pasture time in months with suitable weather, but because Angora wool should never be allowed to get wet (it will felt and do so very quickly), they can't really be raised in typical pasturing-fashion. Some sort of shelter must always be provided and protection against rain/dew wet fields. You must also keep in mind that, depending on where you live, outdoor temperatures quickly climb beyond a comfortable level for Angoras--all rabbits are sensitive heat, but Angoras in full coat are INCREDIBLY sensitive. When I pasture my rabbits, I do so only in the evening hours and only in shady areas of my property. I avoid it altogether if the temperature and/or humidity is too high. They just can't handle it. Two of my does are in show coat right now and despite living on a cement floor, they're hot and constantly stretching out on their bellies to keep cool (and the outdoor temperature here is in the upper 30s and 40s, indoor in their pen about 50-degrees).

I'm not trying to discourage you from raising Angoras. I love them, I think they're wonderful, and I can't imagine raising another breed with the same passion, but neither do I want to give you the impression that FAs are the ultimate meat rabbit--they're really not.


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## Abbey

sonnythebunny said:
			
		

> Abbey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> has anyone had good luck pasturing rabbits?
> 
> 
> 
> do you mean a colony?
Click to expand...

Yes. The way I have heard of it being done are in long cages with either wire or wood slatted floors that are moved through out the day. The rabbits forage what comes through the bottom of the cage without being able to dig out. I have wondered if netted electric would work too. They would still be able to dig but might learn to not go anywhere near the fence. Obviously birds would still be a predatory issue...


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## Abbey

pennylove said:
			
		

> I raise French Angoras for meat/wool/show. While French Angoras are, absolutely, a dual-purpose breed, they definitely are more work than other meat breeds. Typical slaughter-age for a FA is 8-12 weeks and at that age, their coat is immature. It's still "baby wool" (meaning they haven't been through their first moult and are not growing adult wool) and the staple length is pretty short, at most 3". For spinning and fiber arts, the ideal staple length is 4" or more and show length is 4 1/2" or more. So, to use a litter for both wool and meat, you'll really need to raise them to five or six months of age. When you add in the additional cost of feed and cage space for to accommodate an entire litter for that time, they become significantly less economical than other meat breeds, as well.
> 
> I raise my FA does in a colony, with the bucks in cages with them. That way my breeding program is still controlled, there's no in-fighting, but my rabbits are exceptionally healthy and my investments, in terms of both time and equipment, are low. I do allow my rabbits pasture time in months with suitable weather, but because Angora wool should never be allowed to get wet (it will felt and do so very quickly), they can't really be raised in typical pasturing-fashion. Some sort of shelter must always be provided and protection against rain/dew wet fields. You must also keep in mind that, depending on where you live, outdoor temperatures quickly climb beyond a comfortable level for Angoras--all rabbits are sensitive heat, but Angoras in full coat are INCREDIBLY sensitive. When I pasture my rabbits, I do so only in the evening hours and only in shady areas of my property. I avoid it altogether if the temperature and/or humidity is too high. They just can't handle it. Two of my does are in show coat right now and despite living on a cement floor, they're hot and constantly stretching out on their bellies to keep cool (and the outdoor temperature here is in the upper 30s and 40s, indoor in their pen about 50-degrees).
> 
> I'm not trying to discourage you from raising Angoras. I love them, I think they're wonderful, and I can't imagine raising another breed with the same passion, but neither do I want to give you the impression that FAs are the ultimate meat rabbit--they're really not.


Thank you for posting!! I never thought of having a colony with the males in seperate cages WITHIN the colony. Yes, I get the feeling it would be a labor of love. I really enjoy spending time with my angoras and don't mind taking care of the wool. It is probably too much to ask to be able to use their offspring's fiber as well, but at least I could potentially harvest my breeder's wool and simply raise their kits for meat, keeping them sheared and not maintaining their coats to save? 
  What do your FA's dress out to at butcher age? English are just too small to bother for meat?

I like the idea of a colony environment simply for the ease of care and being able to put them out in a field to run and eat is even more appealing. But yes, the dang moisture problem of the coats felting is an issue. As is a moveable cage that would provide enough shade. Some things to mull over....


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## pennylove

Abbey said:
			
		

> pennylove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I raise French Angoras for meat/wool/show. While French Angoras are, absolutely, a dual-purpose breed, they definitely are more work than other meat breeds. Typical slaughter-age for a FA is 8-12 weeks and at that age, their coat is immature. It's still "baby wool" (meaning they haven't been through their first moult and are not growing adult wool) and the staple length is pretty short, at most 3". For spinning and fiber arts, the ideal staple length is 4" or more and show length is 4 1/2" or more. So, to use a litter for both wool and meat, you'll really need to raise them to five or six months of age. When you add in the additional cost of feed and cage space for to accommodate an entire litter for that time, they become significantly less economical than other meat breeds, as well.
> 
> I raise my FA does in a colony, with the bucks in cages with them. That way my breeding program is still controlled, there's no in-fighting, but my rabbits are exceptionally healthy and my investments, in terms of both time and equipment, are low. I do allow my rabbits pasture time in months with suitable weather, but because Angora wool should never be allowed to get wet (it will felt and do so very quickly), they can't really be raised in typical pasturing-fashion. Some sort of shelter must always be provided and protection against rain/dew wet fields. You must also keep in mind that, depending on where you live, outdoor temperatures quickly climb beyond a comfortable level for Angoras--all rabbits are sensitive heat, but Angoras in full coat are INCREDIBLY sensitive. When I pasture my rabbits, I do so only in the evening hours and only in shady areas of my property. I avoid it altogether if the temperature and/or humidity is too high. They just can't handle it. Two of my does are in show coat right now and despite living on a cement floor, they're hot and constantly stretching out on their bellies to keep cool (and the outdoor temperature here is in the upper 30s and 40s, indoor in their pen about 50-degrees).
> 
> I'm not trying to discourage you from raising Angoras. I love them, I think they're wonderful, and I can't imagine raising another breed with the same passion, but neither do I want to give you the impression that FAs are the ultimate meat rabbit--they're really not.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting!! I never thought of having a colony with the males in seperate cages WITHIN the colony. Yes, I get the feeling it would be a labor of love. I really enjoy spending time with my angoras and don't mind taking care of the wool. It is probably too much to ask to be able to use their offspring's fiber as well, but at least I could potentially harvest my breeder's wool and simply raise their kits for meat, keeping them sheared and not maintaining their coats to save?
> What do your FA's dress out to at butcher age? English are just too small to bother for meat?
> 
> I like the idea of a colony environment simply for the ease of care and being able to put them out in a field to run and eat is even more appealing. But yes, the dang moisture problem of the coats felting is an issue. As is a moveable cage that would provide enough shade. Some things to mull over....
Click to expand...

If you cull at twelve-weeks, a good line of rabbits could have a coat of 3" and that's usable. It wont be _easy _to spin, but it could be blended with other fibers into a decent yarn with some effort. At twelve-weeks, an FA has usually reached 5 lbs., a good slaughter weight and they dress out around 2 lbs. If you were to seriously pursue this, you'd want to look for a line of rabbits with really exceptional density and length as juniors because you'd need them to have a really good coat at 12-weeks. I don't think English Angoras would be useful for this. They're small, typically not yet five pounds at 12-weeks, so you'd want to raise them longer, and their coats require much more care, adding to your time investment.

I don't remember if you mentioned having bred Angoras at all, but I do want to warn you about baby wool. It's a mess. While it's arguably the most valuable of all the Angora wool, it does require more maintenance than adult FA wool. It mats easily and is very soft and clingy, similar to English Angora wool. So, factor the additional time you'll have to spend maintaining coats on a litter before slaughter into your considerations.

I can't recommend colony raising enough, though. I love having my rabbits free to run and I can't imagine changing to a cage system. I use dog crates for my bucks (each buck has one "Great Dane" sized cage, the largest typically made). They have solid floors and I give them litterboxes to use, which they do. I've only had trouble with one buck and this system--he digs and weaves his hay into nests on the bottom of his cage and isn't very good about using his litterbox, so I have to be exceptionally careful to keep his cage clean; he's my only problem child, though. 

I'm planning to experiment with colony raising in small breeding groups--2-4 does with a suitable buck in a semi-permanent "family" unit. This would allow me to have my bucks live cage-free as well. I made a temporary try at this living situation with one of my bucks and it really went well. For a week, he lived peacefully with my does and managed to breed three out of five. I plan to try again for a longer period of time, encompassing the full cycle of breeding, gestation, and delivery and see how that works for the rabbits. So, this type of setup might be something for you to consider as well.


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## Abbey

pennylove said:
			
		

> Abbey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pennylove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I raise French Angoras for meat/wool/show. While French Angoras are, absolutely, a dual-purpose breed, they definitely are more work than other meat breeds. Typical slaughter-age for a FA is 8-12 weeks and at that age, their coat is immature. It's still "baby wool" (meaning they haven't been through their first moult and are not growing adult wool) and the staple length is pretty short, at most 3". For spinning and fiber arts, the ideal staple length is 4" or more and show length is 4 1/2" or more. So, to use a litter for both wool and meat, you'll really need to raise them to five or six months of age. When you add in the additional cost of feed and cage space for to accommodate an entire litter for that time, they become significantly less economical than other meat breeds, as well.
> 
> I raise my FA does in a colony, with the bucks in cages with them. That way my breeding program is still controlled, there's no in-fighting, but my rabbits are exceptionally healthy and my investments, in terms of both time and equipment, are low. I do allow my rabbits pasture time in months with suitable weather, but because Angora wool should never be allowed to get wet (it will felt and do so very quickly), they can't really be raised in typical pasturing-fashion. Some sort of shelter must always be provided and protection against rain/dew wet fields. You must also keep in mind that, depending on where you live, outdoor temperatures quickly climb beyond a comfortable level for Angoras--all rabbits are sensitive heat, but Angoras in full coat are INCREDIBLY sensitive. When I pasture my rabbits, I do so only in the evening hours and only in shady areas of my property. I avoid it altogether if the temperature and/or humidity is too high. They just can't handle it. Two of my does are in show coat right now and despite living on a cement floor, they're hot and constantly stretching out on their bellies to keep cool (and the outdoor temperature here is in the upper 30s and 40s, indoor in their pen about 50-degrees).
> 
> I'm not trying to discourage you from raising Angoras. I love them, I think they're wonderful, and I can't imagine raising another breed with the same passion, but neither do I want to give you the impression that FAs are the ultimate meat rabbit--they're really not.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for posting!! I never thought of having a colony with the males in seperate cages WITHIN the colony. Yes, I get the feeling it would be a labor of love. I really enjoy spending time with my angoras and don't mind taking care of the wool. It is probably too much to ask to be able to use their offspring's fiber as well, but at least I could potentially harvest my breeder's wool and simply raise their kits for meat, keeping them sheared and not maintaining their coats to save?
> What do your FA's dress out to at butcher age? English are just too small to bother for meat?
> 
> Good to hear, thank you for providing your insights. It seems kind of unreasonable to me to put many rabbits in seperate cages. How is your pen set up? Is it just wire on the ground or is there a bottom of wire as well? Is the top covered? Or is it an indoor enclosure?
> 
> I like the idea of a colony environment simply for the ease of care and being able to put them out in a field to run and eat is even more appealing. But yes, the dang moisture problem of the coats felting is an issue. As is a moveable cage that would provide enough shade. Some things to mull over....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you cull at twelve-weeks, a good line of rabbits could have a coat of 3" and that's usable. It wont be _easy _to spin, but it could be blended with other fibers into a decent yarn with some effort. At twelve-weeks, an FA has usually reached 5 lbs., a good slaughter weight and they dress out around 2 lbs. If you were to seriously pursue this, you'd want to look for a line of rabbits with really exceptional density and length as juniors because you'd need them to have a really good coat at 12-weeks. I don't think English Angoras would be useful for this. They're small, typically not yet five pounds at 12-weeks, so you'd want to raise them longer, and their coats require much more care, adding to your time investment.
> 
> I don't remember if you mentioned having bred Angoras at all, but I do want to warn you about baby wool. It's a mess. While it's arguably the most valuable of all the Angora wool, it does require more maintenance than adult FA wool. It mats easily and is very soft and clingy, similar to English Angora wool. So, factor the additional time you'll have to spend maintaining coats on a litter before slaughter into your considerations.
> 
> I can't recommend colony raising enough, though. I love having my rabbits free to run and I can't imagine changing to a cage system. I use dog crates for my bucks (each buck has one "Great Dane" sized cage, the largest typically made). They have solid floors and I give them litterboxes to use, which they do. I've only had trouble with one buck and this system--he digs and weaves his hay into nests on the bottom of his cage and isn't very good about using his litterbox, so I have to be exceptionally careful to keep his cage clean; he's my only problem child, though.
> 
> I'm planning to experiment with colony raising in small breeding groups--2-4 does with a suitable buck in a semi-permanent "family" unit. This would allow me to have my bucks live cage-free as well. I made a temporary try at this living situation with one of my bucks and it really went well. For a week, he lived peacefully with my does and managed to breed three out of five. I plan to try again for a longer period of time, encompassing the full cycle of breeding, gestation, and delivery and see how that works for the rabbits. So, this type of setup might be something for you to consider as well.
Click to expand...


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## secuono

I would not pasture long, woolly rabbits, unless you shave them all the time. Otherwise, they will be a matted hell in no time flat. 
Any rabbit can be a meat rabbit, but you might need to keep a meat breed buck around to cross the does with for better meat litters. 
Or find heritage breeders who breed angora as wool and meat, otherwise, you will have to crossbreed for vigor and meat/bone ratio.


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## Abbey

Hmm, post ate my text. I was wondering what your set up for the colony is Pennylove? Is it an outdoor enclosure or indoor? If outdoor is there any wire on the bottom to keep them from digging out? Any top cover for predators? What kind of shelter do they have? Colony seems to make more sense once you get past a certain number of rabbits... And thank you for your insights on raising for meat. Definately going to think about it awhile and approach it slowly.


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## pennylove

Abbey said:
			
		

> Hmm, post ate my text. I was wondering what your set up for the colony is Pennylove? Is it an outdoor enclosure or indoor? If outdoor is there any wire on the bottom to keep them from digging out? Any top cover for predators? What kind of shelter do they have? Colony seems to make more sense once you get past a certain number of rabbits... And thank you for your insights on raising for meat. Definately going to think about it awhile and approach it slowly.


Send me a private message and we can chat, or I'll send you my email address. I can also link you to some resources on colony raised Angoras, some friends of mine have a Facebook group and such.


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## secuono

Mine live out free on real pasture. Use hot wire to keep out ground animals, use a lgd to keep out air predators and give them tons of food/space so none escape.


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