# First Goat- Doe? Buck? Wether?



## 9byDesign

Sorry for what may be a dumb question to most.  We want to get 1 or 2 goats for our 7 children for Christmas this year.  We live on an acre in suburbia  with 4 chickens/ coop, a "barn cat", and are planning to pen & stake out a goat or two.

Any *master advice *on what breed to get and male, female, wether, and how many goats (1 or 2)?  We do seem to like the Nigerian Dwarfs and the Nubians. We would LOVE to have milk for our large family...but are not sure how much that REALLY involves.

Thank you kindly in advance for your time and consideration.  I know this is a novice question.


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## jodief100

It all depends on your goals.  Whatever you get you should get two.  Goats are social animals and need the compainionship of other goats to be happy.  

I would recomend some research on some of the smaller milk breeds, like Dwarf Nigerians.  With one acre you should get a smaller breed.  

Your neighborhood in Suburbia may frown on a stinky buck. Males can be agressive and they STINK! For a small backyard herd  it may not be a good idea.  If you want milk you will need to see if there is some way to get your girls bred without having a buck. Sometimes you can work something out with the breeder you buy from.

A wether and a doe make a good pairing if you want milk.  If just pets, 2 wethers is great, they are usually available for less money.  If you want more milk, go with 2 does.


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## ksalvagno

Make sure you can have goats on your property before you get them. Some cities allow it and some don't. It would be horrible to get them and get attached only to be told by the city to get rid of them. 

With just one acre, probably Nigerian Dwarfs would be the best. You do need to decide what you want them for before purchase and it would be important to find a breeder who would let you breed your girls to their buck if you want milk.

Visit some local farms and talk to goat owners. It really is important to decide if you really have the time to milk or not.


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## 9byDesign

Thank you.  I know we live in an agricultural residential subdivision and are allowed chickens.  (Several neighbors have horses, and two neighbors have goats.) I am assuming- yes. 

I have heard- no bucks.  I am just trying to decide betweeen the combo of two does or a doe and a wether.  We very well MAY intend to try for milk/ breed at least once.


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## jodief100

How much milk the goats produce will be a consideration if you want one or two.  Talk with the breeder who you plan on buying them from and find out how much milk you can expect.  Milk goats are a big responsibility.  They need to be milked twice a day.  They have medical needs, worming, vaccinations, etc. Proper food and shelter are essential. A goat that is pregnant or lactating needs more than just browse and hay, whereas wethers will be fine on browse and hay, in most cases.   Do a lot of research and make sure this is something you want to take on.


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## 9byDesign

Thanks, again.


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## savingdogs

You want more than one goat, and not a buck, that is for sure. 

Bucks smell TERRIBLE, you would not want one even if your neighborhood allowed it. Did you know they urinate on themselves on purpose? 
Not a good pet! Only people with herds of goats need to keep a stud.

We did not think we wanted or needed a wether when we bought ours, but he got thrown into the deal when we bought his sisters. Now he is our favorite. They are a bonded three and always like to be together. It actually makes them easy to control this way however, if you catch one, you pretty much caught them all, because if you lead one away, the other two follow. Since the wether is the most friendly, we just collar and lead him and having him is quite useful. If you are anywhere near their area, he makes sure he is poking his nose into your pocket, following you around, asking for a scratch, or gazing lovingly into your eyes. 

You can have dairy breed goats and not milk them if you choose, just don't breed them or get castrated males. We decided we wanted to try keeping goats before we jumped into milking. Now we are really looking forward to starting milking when our does are old enough. If we think it is too much work, well then we just won't breed them again. We've only been at this for a year but we are finding goats to be really fun.


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## Emmetts Dairy

I would stick with a dwarf breed as well, with an acre.  And REALLY dont get a buck.  LOL  Yours neighbors will hate you... 

I would go with a wether and a doe...or two does as well and have them breed if you want milk.  If you find milkings too much you can always dry them.  But keep them for pets. 

But they are a herd animal so always get two of whatever you decide!!
So they wont be lonely.

But have fun and I would visit some farms so you can learn what involved for housing and their daily needs are.

I love our goaties!!!!   They are fun and have fabulous personalities!!


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## cmjust0

Personally, I'd either go with two does or two wethers -- but not a doe and a wether if you intend to breed and milk the doe.  When she's dry and open (meaning not in lactation or gestation), the doe's nutritional requirements will be similar to that of a wether..  However, about 3mo after she's bred, her nutritional requirements will begin to change..  When she's in lactation, she'll have vastly different requirements from the wether.

When she's in late gestation and lactation, for instance, you'll probably want to start incorporating alfalfa or some type of legume hay for calcium and better protein content in the roughage portion of her diet..  While alfalfa hay won't hurt the wether, per se, it can get expensive to feed *two* goats free-choice alfalfa hay when you're only be getting a return on the investment from the doe.  

They'll also have to get their bagged feed rations seperately when her dietary needs increase..  The doe will need more concentrated ration (bagged feed) to gestate rapidly growing babies, as well as to keep up her milk production during lactation without losing tons of body condition in the process..  You may even end up putting her on an entirely different feed designed specifically for lactating dairy goats..

The boy, on the other hand...he'll need whatever he's always needed.

Don't get me wrong, though..  It's really not a _huge_ deal to keep different classes of animals such as wethers and does together..  People do it everyday!  I'm just saying that if you're looking to minimize the PITA factor...keeping one class of animal is easier.

Oh, and yeah...there's quite a bit that goes into milking.  Fresh milk is great, but you're probably going to find yourself going in for stainless milk buckets, strainers, teat dip, twice-daily chores, being ANCHORED to your place while the doe's milking, etc..  Whether or not it's worth all that is up to you.

And don't necessarily expect it to be more economical than buying milk from the store, either..  Goat's milk definitely isn't "free" just because you own goats..  Not that you necessarily expected it would be, of course, but suffice it to say that my experience tells me by the time you figure in the feed, shelter, veterinary care expenses, equipment expenses, time and opportunity cost of milking, blah blah blah, that "free" goat's milk _can_ end up being the most expensive milk you'll ever put in the fridge.

Just some things to consider.


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## 9byDesign

That's also great, much-wanted information.  Thank you !!!

PS- Liked your "Whether or not" pun .


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## cmjust0

No pun intended actually...  Hmm..

Perhaps someone should page Dr. Freud.


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## warthog

I think your question as to bucks, does or wethers has been covered.

You mentioned staking them out.  

In my experience this does not work well with goats.  

That's what I thought I would do,and it  really did not work.  

Goats are browsers and eat a couple of leaves from this tree, run a bit and take another few leaves from another branch and so on.

When tied out, I found they just shouted all the time, because they were restricted in where they could go,  the leaves 2feet further than they can reach are always the best.  

Even though when I tied them out, they were always within sight, the number of times they got tangled up was unreal, the accidents that could have happened had I not been there just don't bear thinking about. 

I was continually filling water buckets beacuse they have kicked them over.  These are just a few of the problems I came across.  

Which then meant we had to get into some serious fencing, during which time the goats had to stay in their pens and were not happy bunnies.

I am not saying it can't work, it didn't for me, just something for you to think about.


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## warthog

Just another thought, if these goats are mainly for your children, you may want to think about goats without horns (disbudded).


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## 9byDesign

Thanks, Warthog .  Also, great advice.  I can imagine (now) all those scenarios.  A neighbor down the road stakes his out once in a while...but not to a tree.  Not sure if it was a cinder (sp?) block or what, but it didn't look like anything much to get tangled up on.  That is why I thought maybe I could do the same.

This leads me to:  

How big then should a primary "pen" (fenced area w/ 3 sided shelter) be for 2 Nigerian Dwarf Goats?  Is a 4x4 lean-to shelter adequate for cover?  (I live in Florida- it will be open.)

PS- Warthog- Would you recommend goats over sheep ( I see you also have these)?


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## warthog

You may be OK with a cinder block.  All I can say is if there is a way for goats to get into trouble, they will find it.

When I first got the sheep, I tied them to a cinder block and put them on my lawn, which was desperate for cutting, they managed to get tangled with that and could drag it along.

With regard to pen size, I don't know if there is a right or wrong, my 4 goats are x breeds, I am told maybe part Saanen and they have a 16 x 8 three sided shelter within a pen of approximately 40 x 40.  But they are let out to an area of maybe 2 acres everyday to browse, and I will be fencing off another 1 acre section over the next few months so as to rotate them.

I think the answer to that question is it depends on what you have available, but in MHO the bigger the penned area the better I guess. 

With regard to sheep or goats,  the only reason I have both is the goats mainly browse, leaves etc and eat upwards generally.

The sheep basically follow round grazing grass, weeds, lower growing leaves that the goats generally don't eat.

Now I know that people graze their goats on grass, and have happy healthy goats.

I love all my animals, and I hate to say this, but I prefer the goats, I just think they have more character, or maybe I am just a gluten for punishment or something. 

Please do not let anything I have said put you off, listen to what others have to say and decide what is best for you and your situation.


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## jodief100

I have several 5' x 5', three sided shelters in my fields and I will find 4-6 full sized goats in them.  I think 4' x 4' will be fine for 2 little ones. They should be closed on three sides with the lee side is open.

As for staking them to cinder blocks....







I wouldn't.  That doeling was about 30 lbs when she did that.  She wasn't tied to it, it was just sitting in the middle of the yard. I have used dog tie out stakes for short periods.  I don't like to be sometimes when I need a little area cleared out I will put a few out for an hour or so.  I make sure they cannot reach each other and get tangled in each others lines.  I really don't recomend staking out at all, goats can get into all kinds of trouble.


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## ChksontheRun

Poor little thing.  How did you get her out.  I had one stick her head and front legs through a hole in the fencing and boy did she scream while I got her out.


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## 9byDesign

OMGoodness, Jodie... You couldn't have posted a BETTER picture to make me think twice!?  LOL.


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## jodief100

I broke the block with a hammer and got her free.  She had a spot rubbed raw on her back but otherwise was fine.    I have no idea how long she was stuck, I came home from work and found her. Had it been a week earlier she would have been stuck out in 90+ degree heat in the direct sun.  That may not have had a happy ending.


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## 9byDesign

Thank you all so much!  We are picking up our pair (wether/ chosen and doeling / too choose) on Saturday from the farm!!!

The owner says the prettier doe (12 wks.) is more shy...the other (we didn't want a white one), of course, is very friendly.  With your experience...would you say that at 3 months age that this little "shy" doeling can turn around and become/ be trained friendly???  Or would you say that is pretty much a predetermined trait??  TIA!

We have several children...so we would like to have a friendly goat in the end.


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## ksalvagno

A shy goat can go either way. Also a friendly one can turn shy. One of my kids that was very friendly previously is now shy and runs away from me. I did buy some older goats (over 1 year old) that I was hoping would become friendly but never did. But I also don't have children and probably didn't put in enough time. If the wether is friendly, and with having a number of children, I bet the shy goat would come around. Just be patient with her and spend a lot of time with her. Congratulations on your new goats and post pictures when you get them!


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## warthog

When I got my goats (15 months ago), I got 7 week old bottle baby buckling, 2 - 10 weeks old doelings and a 4 month old doe.

All were a little shy and skittish, probably not used to much handling.

I just spent as much time with them as I could, talking to them, letting them come to me, they will eventually, curiosity always gets the better of them.

I now have very friendly goats,  one would follow me around like a dog, if she was allowed to be out in the yard.

With the childrens time and your time, they should come round quiet easily.

Good luck and lets have some pictures when you get the time.


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## 9byDesign

Picking up our KIDS in an hour !!  

Warthog- Would you say you notice any difference in your bottlefed's "tameness" toward people and your 4 month old you got?


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## savingdogs

Soooooooooooooooooo??????


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## ChksontheRun

Waiting for pics!!!


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## 9byDesign

Sorry!  Busy building the pen !  Can't figure out how to add pictures here???


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## ohiogoatgirl

i know it's past christmas...
but if you get a wether your kids could train him to pack or harness and once he's big (or if he already is and you train him) then if the kids are small enough they could ride him.

if you would like to know more about it messege me.


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