# Any ideas what breed this is?



## yannimom (Sep 6, 2010)

This rabbit is about 5 months old.  He currently weighs about 5 lbs.  A friend gave him to my son, but we don't know what breed he is.  Any ideas?
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## Mea (Sep 6, 2010)

Looks like there could be some English Spot in him.   Very Nive body !!!


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## RabbitMage (Sep 6, 2010)

I don't see English Spot in there.

With those ears he's probably a commercial breed crossed with something smaller.

I will randomly guess Havana X New Zealand, but generally speaking, I'd say mutt.


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## dbunni (Sep 7, 2010)

If he is 5# at 4 months there is not much chance he is pure larger commercial breed.  My 8 week old Broken NZs are 4#!  Body and coat look to be a Polish cross.  We see a lot of these from the pet stores in our area. Look a lot like what you have pictured.  No rex or satin for sure, coat is not right for it.  he is cute.  Nice butterfly and ear markings!


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## ChickenPotPie (Oct 3, 2010)

Okay, stop saying English Spot with every spotted rabbit posted.    They're not _that_ common and the pattern is not even close. 

I'd be quite a feat for it to be a Polish cross, too, considering Polish are a 2 - 3 lb rabbit full grown.  The type says nothing Polish to me.  Neither does the fur (Polish have sleek, fly-back fur).

Now don't laugh, but first thing I thought of was mutt and then Mini Lop.  I know it has got to be at least two generations back but look at that fur (long, roll back), pattern, and coloring.  You'd expect to see it on a ML.  

In any case, I think it is safe to say your son's cute rabbit is a Heinz 57.


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## bellasrabbitry (Oct 5, 2010)

He looks like a mutt to me. 

Defiantly not an English Spot(just because it's a broken does not mean it's an ES). lol

He's a cute rabbit.


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## RabbitMage (Oct 7, 2010)

Oh good, more people that share my English Spot rage!


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## ChickenPotPie (Oct 7, 2010)

RabbitMage said:
			
		

> Oh good, more people that share my English Spot rage!


 Oh, don't get me started! lol 

I spent a few years volunteering in a very busy shelter working with the rabbits (and the affiliated rabbit rescues).  EVERY spotted rabbit the rescues advertised were either English Spot mixes and every product of repeat Broken to Broken breedings were Hotot/Dwarf Hotot mixes.   

Forget that ES are not that common and Hotot are the _rarest_ rabbit in America at this time with the Dwarf version in the same waters if not in the same boat.   

Yeah, it's a pet peeve of mine.  :/


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## TheSheepGirl (Oct 7, 2010)

He looks a bit like a cross that I had a few years back and bit like one I have now. 

They were both mini rex crosses, one was a rex/holland. I know for certain because I watched the idiot breed the two together. He had huge holland ears and a mini rex head and body.

 I've found that the rex gene is a recessive that does not usually show up and that the crosses are a roll back or flyback fur type. He has the mini rex head and a body that would fit a very poorly typed mini rex. The ears don't match, but short ears are a recessive too.

As for the size, I've seen mini rex that were edging toward 6 pounds at six months, people temd not to breed them small sometimes. I have also seen mini atins that big, though those are kind of rare. 

He has kind of a flemishy type of body and those are more common than you'd think.

I don't know what your talking about with the whole english spot thing, given every spotted rabbit isn't an english spot, but have you ever been to a show. An average ES turnout is around fifty and that's for a small show. I've seen as many as 80 at a show in my area and those are never big. If you've won BOB in the ES class then that's a feet.


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## RabbitMage (Oct 7, 2010)

TheSheepGirl said:
			
		

> I don't know what your talking about with the whole english spot thing, given every spotted rabbit isn't an english spot, but have you ever been to a show. An average ES turnout is around fifty and that's for a small show. I've seen as many as 80 at a show in my area and those are never big. If you've won BOB in the ES class then that's a feet.


Out here in California it's a rare show that there are ANY present, and 20 would be considered a huge showing.


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## BDial (Oct 7, 2010)

ChickenPotPie said:
			
		

> Forget that ES are not that common and Hotot are the _rarest_ rabbit in America at this time with the Dwarf version in the same waters if not in the same boat.
> 
> Yeah, it's a pet peeve of mine.  :/


Wait a min Dwarf Hotot's are rare? I didn't know that. I have a decent buck that I saved from being bashed with a shovel because he has 6 black hairs at the base of an ear. Other than that his confo is nice and his temperment is great.
(wow I am a total dunce today)


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## Emmetts Dairy (Oct 7, 2010)

I dont know but he's verrrryy cute!!!!!


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## Bunnylady (Oct 7, 2010)

English Spots aren't common around here, either; I don't think I have ever seen more than 20 in the same place at the same time, even at the state convention. Dwarf Hotots come and go in popularity, sometimes it seems like everyone has a pair, then nobody does. For some reason, most  of the broken dwarfs that I have seen have a lot of white and little color on them, even those that have a solid parent. 

This rabbit's broken pattern looks like a regular ol' run of the mill broken, like you'll see on sixty-'leven different breeds. Nothing about it screams one breed over any other to me (I couldn't imagine a 5 lb. 5 month old Flemish) so I'd have to go with the all-American mutt as well. He looks like a nice lil guy!


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## ChickenPotPie (Oct 8, 2010)

BDial said:
			
		

> ChickenPotPie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, alright, according to the list Franco Rios shared, Hotots are the rarest rabbit is this time.  Dwarf Hotots don't make the list and neither do English Spot, however, they are _not_ a common rabbit.  

Look at the breed numbers shown at the ARBA Conventions.  That will tell you how common certain rabbit breeds are.  Dutch will have 500 shown in Youth and 600 shown in Open.  Mini Rex and Holland numbers would be up there, too.  Jersey Woolies will have anywhere from 300- 600 shown in Youth and Open combined.  

Take a Satin Angora, however, and....well, there was 1 Satin Angora shown in Youth at the 2008 ARBA Convention.  Dwarf Hotot numbers, I'd bet, would hit 100 in Youth and Open combined, at best.  Not very common.

@ Bunnylady, that is an interesting observation about the lightly marked brokens coming from solid parents.  I'm no genetics guru but I am working on a pattern project with a fellow exhibitor.  Pattern is all genetics.  Broken to broken breedings tend to give you lighter marked offspring and sometimes, Charlies.  A solid rabbit (say a black) can hide a broken pattern.  You can look at its broken ancestors to get an idea of what kind of pattern it will pass on to it's broken pattern kits.  That pattern can be heavy, light, ES pattern, blanket, etc.

For my breed, we currently have light pattern on the West Coast (as well as in the Southern states, I hear).  Because my stock is lightly marked, I often get unshowables or lightly marked showable rabbits no matter what I do because the pattern is there.  It is set.  But, I bring in a heavier pattern and I can improve my stock and pass the pattern around this coast and the country thus improving the breed pattern.  I am using a cross of another breed to bring in the pattern.  Intersting stuff.  It's working out well so far.

But, my point is, pattern is genetic.  If light pattern is there in a line, it's not going to get heavier without some outside help.  It will likely get lighter.


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## TheSheepGirl (Oct 8, 2010)

Perhaps here in oregon the rare breeds are not quite so rare. There are also quite a few Champagnes and also more Hotos than you should think there would be. They are on Craigslist all the time.

That's wierd that you would say that because most of the breeders that come to the show are from california. I guess it is a pretty big show though. There were almost 350 rabbits there.


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## ChickenPotPie (Oct 8, 2010)

TheSheepGirl said:
			
		

> Perhaps here in oregon the rare breeds are not quite so rare. There are also quite a few Champagnes and also more Hotos than you should think there would be. They are on Craigslist all the time.
> 
> That's wierd that you would say that because most of the breeders that come to the show are from california. I guess it is a pretty big show though. There were almost 350 rabbits there.


Size is relative, I guess.  350 here would be a youth 4H show.  Regular ARBA shows get 600 - 1500 entries.  

You are very lucky to have a good showing in the rare breeds!


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## TheSheepGirl (Oct 8, 2010)

Mabe, but it has been kinda hard to find a champagne buck that is more than just somebody's cull. The rare breeds here are from the same basic breeders. All of my champagnes are all related to everyone elses. 

I have one that I rescued from the meat truck, but he is an excellant quality rabbit now, the breeder  was just feeding the wrong feed.

We even had 15 Britania's at the last big ARBA show I went to. There were more than 700 and edging toward 800 rabbits at this show and the ES numbers were huge yet again.

It's kinda funny though. There is a breed of pigeons that everyone has here. I went to the state fair and everyone was in disbelief that I had one.


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