# 2 Week Old Baby Goat Trouble- Second Kid Down : ( - Help Please



## Pioneer Chicken (Feb 26, 2014)

Hey y'all.  I have a 15 day old ND dwarf doe that is not doing so well.  She was part of a set of quads and I had tried supplementing her and a sibling with a bottle sometime last week or in the first week of life.  I don't think they even got much milk in them.  On the 23rd, something didn't seem right with her and I wondered if she was constipated but saw her nursing her dam so let it be. I did try to give her a bottle that day and _maybe_ got in an ounce or two.  On the 24th, she was still off so I gave her an enema, which brought out a lot of feces.   I  started giving her 2-3 cc's milk of magnesia that day.   When I put her back with her dam, the dam wanted nothing to do with her.  She nipped her, refused to let her nurse, and ran away from her, which is understandable since she didn't recognize her kid.  The next morning, the dam seemed okay with her, but the little one was hunched.  I did do another enema that day and got more feces out.   I took the kid off her dam that night ( still the 24th) and had been trying to bottle feed ( I used whole cow's milk w/baking soda and I use the pritchard nipple).  She was being very stubborn (understandable) and I couldn't get her to suck at all. Yesterday (the 25th), I tried putting honey on my finger and then in her mouth; she sucked some, but when I put it on the nipple and then in her mouth, nothing.  Later, I tried molasses, which she seemed to like better.   She had bowel movements twice by herself yesterday morning and then nothing till the evening when I did another enema and quite a bit came out.  I have been giving her the milk of magnesia @ 2-3ccs two times a day.  I also mixed mineral oil with it to get the bowels moving. Since the last enema, she has been having bowels all by herself.    Yesterday, ( I don't recall why; a lot has happened since then. She may have been looking weaker), I took her off the milk and put her on electrolytes mixed with plain yogurt and an energy mix as I call it (molasses, baking soda, karo syrup, and salt).  Because she has refused the bottle and is not sucking at all, I have been _carefully and very slowly _drenching her with the formula.  I keep her positioned as a bottle baby should be ( head up, neck extended outward).  I make sure she is swallowing.  

Last night,  she was getting more wobbly on her legs and was having bowels, but no urine.  I haven't seen her urinate but once last night since she's had bowel movements.  I took her temp last evening and it was 101.7 F. I gave her B-1 & B-12 along with Vitamin C and her energy formula.  I was up with her most of the night, trying to keep her hydrated and trying to get her to stand for a little bit. Sometime last night/early morning, she started having more smelly pale yellow bowels. And then she started having whitish bowels.  This morning(I hope I can explain this), she's been having some blood(not bright red; dull-colored is what I'd say) come out of her bottom. It comes out with clear, gooey stuff.  It's not constant; just every now and then, like when she's having a bowel movement.  She is now at the point where she can't stand.  I gave her more B-vitamins at 2am & 7 am. 

TEMP TIMES (starting yesterday, the 25th): (all in Fahrenheit) 
7pm- 101.7
1am- 103.1
3/4 am- 104.1 ( Her tummy seemed full/ bloated, so I didn't give her anything. Then I lacked on my part and fell asleep : / I woke up at 7isham and her temp was 99.8
8:45am 99.4
10am: 101.7
11am: 100

I gave her a baking soda drench (about 1 tsp. b. soda in warm water) at 11 am.  

I've been researching everything I can as far as illnesses go and I am at a loss as to what to do.  One more thing: I gave her and all her siblings one _maybe _two mls of selenium/vitamin E gel the day they were born since two had weak legs (including this little doe) and one wasn't sucking well. All of them improved pretty well, though this little girl had to have her splint on for two to three days and seemed fine.   Is she good on selenium or ?? I appreciate any advice and help.  I just want this little doe to get better.


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## Pioneer Chicken (Feb 26, 2014)

I lost her.


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## AshleyFishy (Feb 26, 2014)

I'm sorry for your loss


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## SA Farm (Feb 26, 2014)

Oh Pioneer, I'm so sorry for your loss!


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## alsea1 (Feb 26, 2014)

You did your best. Sometimes it just goes south


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## bonbean01 (Feb 26, 2014)

So sorry


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## Pioneer Chicken (Feb 27, 2014)

Thank y'all so much for your kind words. It was a real hard hit. I really wish I could've saved her.   She was such a sweet little girl and so patient with me.  If you have any idea what it was or what I could've/ should've done different, PLEASE, please let me know. I really don't want this to happen again if I can help it.


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## 2luv2farm (Feb 28, 2014)

Goodness.  I am so sorry!  We had one set of quads and lost one at birth (umbilical cord).  It's a heart breaker!  My prayers are with you.


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## Pioneer Chicken (Mar 4, 2014)

I brought in Pistol's brother about four days ago.  For three days I tried to get him on a bottle to no avail. He had no sucking reflex. I gave him Nutri-Drench two nights ago and  three hours later, he actually sucked down 2oz by himself.  The next morning, he was a little chilled, so I warmed him up before trying to bottle feed him.  He was back to having no sucking reflex.  I gave him another Nutri-drench.  Finally, yesterday, I tube-fed him one oz of milk. Then, two more times (2 oz each time) about three-and a half to four hours apart.  He only had one bowel yesterday and he has not urinated since yesterday afternoon.  Last evening, he also got gunk in his eye and now it is crusting over. We gently wiped it up with a damp paper towel.  Now he is getting to where he is getting limp and can't stand well.   I need help. What is going on with my kid? This is crazy & I don't know what I'm doing wrong.  I don't know what to do and I really don't want to lose another kid.  It's just too heartbreaking.  Thanks in advance.


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## 2luv2farm (Mar 4, 2014)

Have you called your vet?  I would consider this an emergency situation.  Good luck to you!


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

PC I have not experienced this so I was thinking if this were my goat what would I do?

First keep him in like you are, heat lamps to keep temp stable. 2cc 2x day of nutridrench. If tubing, do you know how to tube? some people get it in the lungs, tubing is tricky if you aren't trained in it, take a glove and stimulate babies bottom, like a doe would, this promotes the wanting to nurse. Babies don't poop much and can be very hard to tell. If not getting enough milk they won't urinate either. You may want to syringe feed him if he is too week and doesn't have much suck reflex. Keep trying the nipple feeding. Stimulate him by rubbing him also.


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## Pioneer Chicken (Mar 4, 2014)

Southern by choice said:


> PC I have not experienced this so I was thinking if this were my goat what would I do?
> 
> First keep him in like you are, heat lamps to keep temp stable. 2cc 2x day of nutridrench. If tubing, do you know how to tube? some people get it in the lungs, tubing is tricky if you aren't trained in it, take a glove and stimulate babies bottom, like a doe would, this promotes the wanting to nurse. Babies don't poop much and can be very hard to tell. If not getting enough milk they won't urinate either. You may want to syringe feed him if he is too week and doesn't have much suck reflex. Keep trying the nipple feeding. Stimulate him by rubbing him also.



Okay, I just drenched him with the nutri this morning.  It was my first time tubing, but I made sure to do my research and watched videos on how to do it.  I know that doesn't replace first hand experience, but I don't know anyone near me who has the know-how.  I was careful and slow and had a helper.   I didn't get it in his lungs; made sure to look for the signs that it wasn't in them and pinched off the tube when I was done so that it wouldn't leak out and get into his lungs. Took his temp at 8am and it was 100.2.   I tried stimulating him like you suggested and after a few minutes, he urinated a lot.  His tummy doesn't feel as tight now which was something I was concerned about if he wasn't digesting the food.  Once he's got a temp of  101+, I'll try to offer the bottle again.  This morning, he can stand on his feet and walk around some, even though he is a bit wobbly.  He had discharge in both eyes this morning, which we keep wiping clean; he's trying to/ is keeping them closed.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

Is there a possibility he has an inverted eyelid or even slightly inverted? Warm milk will help with the body regulating the temp. Keep the stimulation up , try a little each hour and see how he does. Not a normal bottle schedule but he is "down" I would think a little every hour may help with energy. 
I imagine you are already using some probiotics too.


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Mar 4, 2014)

2luv2farm said:


> Have you called your vet?  I would consider this an emergency situation.  Good luck to you!


X2!  Good luck - wish I had more useful advice, but I hope your baby boy pulls through.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

If you have a vet I agree. Most of the time I am under the impression if someone is posting and needing help it is because they don't have a vet or access to one.

Have you listened to the lungs? Is it possible he may have pneumonia?


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## Pioneer Chicken (Mar 4, 2014)

I took his temp 2 hours ago and it was low 99.7.   I've been trying to get his temp up (keeping a heating pad beside him) but it's just not working.  I don't know if there's anything one could do for that if he's shutting down? : / 

There is a vet office 30-40 min away and only two are goat vets (there are 12 vets there).  My folks don't really want to add on a vet expense, especially since we have no idea how much they'll charge.  I went up there to get 6 of my kids the CD&T vaccine expecting the price that the secretary told us, only to find out when the vet finished, that it was actually more. : /  When the vet was giving my goats their shots, I wasn't very impressed by how all he seemed to care about was getting the job done and moving on. I personally like a vet that is more interested in my animals and explanatory about what he's doing and so forth, if that makes sense.   I wish my dog and cat vet did goats; he'd get business for sure. :/


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

I wish @elevan  or @Roll farms  or @20kidsonhill  were on... they are a few of the best I know they'd be able to give you some actual helpful advice. @jodief100  is a good one too...

Maybe they will see this. 
So Sorry PC


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## Pioneer Chicken (Mar 4, 2014)

He died earlier this afternoon.  I'd appreciate any thoughts and future advice about what happened.  This is awful to go through.


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## Womwotai (Mar 4, 2014)

Pioneer Chicken said:


> I went up there to get 6 of my kids the CD&T vaccine expecting the price that the secretary told us, only to find out when the vet finished, that it was actually more. : /  When the vet was giving my goats their shots, I wasn't very impressed by how all he seemed to care about was getting the job done and moving on. I personally like a vet that is more interested in my animals and explanatory about what he's doing and so forth, if that makes sense.   I wish my dog and cat vet did goats; he'd get business for sure. :/


I just read your last post.   I am so sorry for your loss(es).  I've followed this thread from the beginning but having only two goats that have never kidded, I felt unqualified to contribute any advice. I'm so sorry though, that you are having these issues with your kids.

I did want to comment on the above quote.  Do you have a Tractor Supply in your area?  I bought my CD-T vaccine there.  It was $6 for a 10-dose bottle.  I already had needles and syringes but those are only a few cents apiece.  Giving the shots is really easy - just make sure you are in a muscle, jam the needle through the (tough) skin, and once it is in, depress the plunger until the dose is all in, then withdraw the needle.  DH and I did our pregnant ewes in only a few minutes - and they are wild and completely unhandleable so part of that time was spent just cornering them motionless long enough to jab them.


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## Pioneer Chicken (Mar 4, 2014)

I do have a TSC (several actually). : ) Okay, I will look into it. Without checking for sure, I thought that I'd only be able to get it through vet prescription.  Good to know.  What about anaphalytic (spelling??)  shock? It's my understanding that I can only get epinephrine by prescription. Thanks!


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

Very sorry. 

Can you get a necropsy done? Usually very inexpensive if done by your state lab. Your regular vets do not have all they need to do a proper necropsy.

Also many vaccines can be given sub-Q. I prefer not giving anything IM unless absolutely necessary.
When giving CD&T it is  important where as you do not want any lumps that could remain and look like CL.
We give CD&T in the armpit.
Also always pull back on the syringe BEFORE injecting so you know you are not hitting a vein.

Sheepgirl I think has some pics on how to give shots, you can you tube it also.

Are you meaning anti-toxin?

We get both from Southern States... don't know if TSC has the anti-toxin.


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## Pioneer Chicken (Mar 4, 2014)

I was thinking about that. I really want to find out what happened.  How would I go about to find how to get one done? 

Okay, thank you for that info! I have never given a goat an injection before; I don't think drawing blood counts, right?  I'm a little nervous about doing something wrong.  I wasn't meaning anti-toxin, but I would like to have some of that on hand, too.  : )


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

You must keep the body refrigerated. Look up your state lab (google it) Find the section for veterinarian division. Call and find out the details. Often there is more than one location in a state.

Just saw you are in TX-
here is the link
Texas A&M Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Laboratory
http://tvmdl.tamu.edu/tests_services/

Hope they are more helpful with this than they are with poultry... I helped a friend that had poultry issues and they were useless.


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## Womwotai (Mar 4, 2014)

Good point Southern, I forgot the original topic was goats.  For the goats I would definitely do SubQ.  For the sheep though, their fleece is so thick, its hard to see the skin so I'd be scared to do SubQ and find out I was actually just injecting into the fleece and not under the skin.  In their case I find IM to be better.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

Funny.. and I never thought about all that wool... and I have 2 sheep. I give theirs in the armpit too and they have never needed anything else. I will remember that though! You are right on... their wool is so thick I don't know how I would get it sub Q anywhere on them.
Thanks!


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## elevan (Mar 5, 2014)

I'm sorry that you lost them both.

When you go to TSC to look for the CD&T vaccination pick yourself up some oral neomycin.  It's a good starter antibiotic to have on hand.  And it's easily put into a bottle for administration.  Good for treating things that might be happening in the gut causing problems.  Which is the first thing that I would have suspected here given all the enemas that you had to give to keep the flow going.


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## Pioneer Chicken (Mar 5, 2014)

Southern by choice said:


> You must keep the body refrigerated. Look up your state lab (google it) Find the section for veterinarian division. Call and find out the details. Often there is more than one location in a state.
> 
> Just saw you are in TX-
> here is the link
> ...



Thank you so much Southern. : )  I should've known to put him in the fridge or something.   I'm keeping this info in case I have something happen again that can't be figured out. 

  Did your friend get paid back? I'd hope so. I know there are a ton of poultry diseases/ illnesses out there but they should've been able to find something. That's definitely disappointing.  :/


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## Roll farms (Mar 7, 2014)

I'm sorry you lost them.  I'm not online much during the week.
I read back through and don't see anything glaringly obvious for a cause or that could be helpful to offering insight.  B shots and probiotics are about the extent of our 'emergency meds'....if it requires more than that we are very lucky to have a great vet.


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## animalmom (Mar 7, 2014)

PC, I know you are going through a real rough time right now;  I can feel how much you love your animals through the way you speak of them.

Hang in there, do what you are able to do and then trust in our great Lord.


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## taylorm17 (Mar 7, 2014)

I am very sorry for your losses. I know how you feel. I had a baby die of hypothermia a while ago and we tried everything possible. Just don't beat yourself up about it. You sound like you really love your goats and you did your best.


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