# 8 wk old having regurgitation issues again...suggestions needed pg 2!!



## glenolam (May 11, 2010)

I got home and it looked as though she fell in something, but then I realized she was trying to throw up a little and she's shaking her head back and forth.  Seems like she's got a cud she can't reguritate.

I'm going to douse her with baking soda - should I give her pepto or anything like that?  B complex shot?


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## helmstead (May 11, 2010)

She is choked...


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## glenolam (May 11, 2010)

OK - so what do I do?

She seems alert, no fever, eye lids/gums/tounge nice and pink.  Just finished dimethox last Friday.

I'm waiting to see her pee/poop, but so far nothing....

She sort of looks like she's dryheaving...


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## helmstead (May 11, 2010)

She probably is choked on something hard and it has stuck in her throat.  If it were me, and it hadn't resolved, I'd be headed to the vet.


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## glenolam (May 11, 2010)

I don't think she's choked....I was able to get a baking soda drench down and kept her inside for about 45 min.  She didn't spit up or anything like that and was breathing normal. ETA - I felt all down her throat and in her belly and tried to look down her throat the best I could and didn't see anything. 

I brought her outside to be with mom and her sister and saw her nurse twice.  She nursed for a few min and switched teats so I'm almost positive she got some milk (I can't say 100% because I'm not in her mouth...)

I watched everyone else go to the bathroom twice except her. I still haven't seen her go.

Seems like she might just have eaten something nasty and can't get it digested quick enough.


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## glenolam (May 11, 2010)

Just got back in again - she was under the hay feeder where she usually sleeps and was chomping away as she's been doing for a while.  Really sounds more like grinding, but her sister does the same thing every day.

She had something slimy hanging out of her mouth so I wiped it and it was green and smelled like hay/milk/grain.  She dry heaved or jerked her head a little more again, let out a big burp and came out from underneath the hay feeder shaking her head some more.  Then she began chomping, headed to mom and took a sip.  Shortly after I saw her squat and attemp a poop - the poop was there, but she only pushed one teeny nugget out.  It was nice and black and the rest of what slipped back in looked about the same.

Funny how I never imagined I would be spending some nights staring at a baby goat's butt watching the poop play peek-a-boo.  Then taking the little nugget that came out and inspecting it.  Good thing I haven't eaten dinner yet....

I'll monitor her for the night - is there something else I should do or look out for?


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## glenolam (May 12, 2010)

This morning she was right as rain.  Guess it was just something that upset her stomach.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do if there's ever a next time?


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## greenfamilyfarms (May 12, 2010)

Was she coughing or heaving? Could she have allergies to pollen?


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## glenolam (May 12, 2010)

She wasn't coughing, weezing or anything like that...just had "stuff" that she was trying to get out.  At times liquid would even drip from her mouth.  She'd be OK (not good, but OK), then you'd see her stomach twitch a little like she was going to throw up, then she'd (what looks to me like) gag as if she was choking on something and finally she did a big burp, seemed to get up something and now she's fine.


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## cmjust0 (May 12, 2010)

I wonder if it was a mild bloat?

If so, the baking soda probably saved her life...


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## glenolam (May 12, 2010)

Would a mild case of bloat end that quickly and easily?  What could have caused the bloat?  She's still mostly on milk, but picks at the hay and grain.  During they day she's out with everyone picking in their wooded pen which doesn't have much grass.


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## glenolam (Jun 2, 2010)

I got home from work today and the same doeling is covered in green slimy pukey stuff (which is now all over me too!).  She's crying a lot and seems to be trying to regurgitate.  She shakes her head back and forth, coughs and pukes a little bit.

I doused her with a baking soda drench again and hit her with B complex.  

What else should I do?  Her throat's not blocked, so no choking, no fever.

She was fine yesterday and this morning.


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## cmjust0 (Jun 2, 2010)

Do they have access to rhododendrons, by any chance?  Anything available that you know of that might be on a poisonous plant list?

My understanding is that the most common cause of vomiting in goats is plant poisoning, so if she's truly vomiting...that's where I'd start.

If she were here, I might even be inclined to just assume that's what's going on and give activated charcoal..


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## glenolam (Jun 2, 2010)

I do have two small rhododendrons, but they are in a place where they cannot get to as they are locked in their pen all day (and one of them is thankfully dying anyway).  I have yet to see them escape (but, of course, that's not to say that the kids sneak out then sneak back in).  Their fence is electrofied, so if they wanted to get out it'd better be for a good reason!

I've looked around their yard and can't see anything that sticks out.  She's the only one who is getting sick....my other three goats that I've had for over a year never had anything like this.

Soon after I drenched her with baking soda and gave her the B complex shot I let them all out to eat the grass and forage in our yard.  I wanted to see how she would do and she lightly played with her sister and got better as time went on.  I haven't seen her throw up again - she squatted to pee and poop, but I was distracted and didn't see if anything came out.

Her eyes and face looked tired, but have since perked up, too.

I gave them all probios and refilled their baking soda.

I'm at a loss!


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## cmjust0 (Jun 2, 2010)

Check that rhododendron...are their goatie tracks around it or anything like that?  Notice any broken branches?

The fact that she's exhibiting signs of rhododendron poisoning and that there are rhododendrons on the property is enough to make me suspicious.


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## mully (Jun 2, 2010)

Milk weed will do the same thing ...check for that on the fence line.


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## glenolam (Jun 2, 2010)

Well, I'm willing to bet milkweed is the culprit.

There aren't any tracks near the rhododendrums and the kids would have to walk a bit in order to get to them anyway.

But I have this same plant growing all around their yard. It's not in their yard, but if she were to poke her head through the fence far enough I'm sure she'd get to it.

ETA: Come to think of it, she's the one I sometimes see sticking her head under the fence line where ever she can until she gets shocked.  She's just like her older brother - grass is always greener on the other side.

It's wild along the wood line and I always left it because, well, I didn't know what it was and it was very pretty!  But definitly not pretty enough to make me want to deal with goat slime. 

Guess I'll be digging up some plants tomorrow!

Assuming that's the case, would I keep treating with baking soda drench or add in the activated charcoal?  Should I give her anything else?


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## freemotion (Jun 2, 2010)

I am practically in CT and we have lots of wild mountain laurel and that is just as bad as rhododendron.  

Look near the ground...there is a plant that I have yet to identify that creeps into my pasture near the woods and I have to rip it out several times a year.  It sends runners.  It has leaves that slightly resemble the laurel but is very low growing and I've never seen a flower on it.  An older friend calls it "sheepkill" but it doesn't match anything I've seen under that name online....but I tend to trust the wisdom of certain experienced ones!

I have a wild shrub in my woods called honeysuckle azaelia, I think, that I fenced out and have to watch for.  I also have a neighbor's yew that wants to spread into my pasture and have to watch that corner with eagle eyes, too.

Just some ideas for you to look out for.  I patrol my pasture regularly....the problem areas are all around the edges, so it doesn't take very long once you know what to look for.  With goats, fence patrol is a must anyways....


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## glenolam (Jun 3, 2010)

Thanks for those suggestions.

I do patrol their fence, but since no one else ever got sick I didn't pay much attention to what was growing around the edges.  I also never cut back the growth because, IMO, it helped me see where the faults were and if anyone was getting in/out.

Free - have any of your animals gotten plant poisoning?  I'm still curios as to what else I should do if/when anyone gets sick again or what I can add to their diet to help (besides digging up all the plants).


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## glenolam (Jun 3, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Look near the ground...there is a plant that I have yet to identify that creeps into my pasture near the woods and I have to rip it out several times a year.  It sends runners.  It has leaves that slightly resemble the laurel but is very low growing and I've never seen a flower on it.  An older friend calls it "sheepkill" but it doesn't match anything I've seen under that name online....but I tend to trust the wisdom of certain experienced ones!


I found this website when I googled sheepkill.  It just says it's the common name for Mountain Laurel.

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison-control/plants/sheepkill.html


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## mully (Jun 3, 2010)

Get rid of the milkweed as it is toxic and can kill a goat. It is one of the first things I look for in the spring. Some goats wont eat it and some will. I would give her hay and water. You might also want to give her a drench 5-10 cc depending on weight for about 3 days and you should see a big difference by Sunday. Good luck !!


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## glenolam (Jun 3, 2010)

Thanks - that's the plan (to pull the milkweed).  She was fine after I drenched her last night and she was up and running around this morning.  No more throwing up, pooping and peeing good.

She's on hay and water, free choice, but still nurses off mom a bit (although they're being weaned this weekend by taping so I can have more milk).

It's strange that none of the other goats got sick - I  haven't noticed that they avoid it when they're allowed to free range in the woods/my yard, but there's so much for them to have I don't pay attention to everything.  They usually stick to the grass or oak leaves and seem to love the crab grass!


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## cmjust0 (Jun 3, 2010)

There's supposedly such a thing as oak leaf poisoning, too, but.....I dunno.....I know of an awful lot of goats that browse in and around oaks and I've never heard of it being a problem.


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## glenolam (Jun 3, 2010)

If it is the case that oak leaves are poisonous to goats (which I've read on this site that it might just be the acorns) my goats should be dead by now. They sure love those oak leaves .... 

I'm also thinking she might just have a more sensitive rumen and not digesting the more poisonous stuff as well as her family.


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## babsbag (Jun 3, 2010)

Mine eat every oak leaf they can reach, and acorns are candy to them. I even cut oak branches from trees outside their pasture and give them to them. I also throw acorns in their yard and they pretend that they are on an "easter egg/acorn hunt". There are so many oak trees in my part of CA that no one could own goats if oaks were dangerous to them. It is really thier favorite/only browse in many goat's pastures. Oak and Manzanita, yummy.


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## glenolam (Jun 3, 2010)

Got home several hours ago and it's the same thing....full of puke and messy stuff.



2 hours later, she's fine and running around with everyone else, clean as a whistle.

  

This time, in addition to more baking soda (because she was still throwing up when I got home) I gave her some mineral oil to help her pass through the other end and gave her gatorade just to make sure she's getting liquid/electrolytes.  Was that OK?

Everyone else is still regular - no runny poops, no coughing, no NOTHING.


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## freemotion (Jun 3, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> Thanks for those suggestions.
> 
> I do patrol their fence, but since no one else ever got sick I didn't pay much attention to what was growing around the edges.  I also never cut back the growth because, IMO, it helped me see where the faults were and if anyone was getting in/out.
> 
> Free - have any of your animals gotten plant poisoning?  I'm still curios as to what else I should do if/when anyone gets sick again or what I can add to their diet to help (besides digging up all the plants).


Some years ago, I lost a goat to what the vet thinks was eating laurel.  I don't have mountain laurel, but I do have the honeysuckle laurel or azalea....I would let my (then only two) goats go into the woods before I had my pasture fence.  I would take them out while I was working there.  We were clearing it in the spring.  One morning she was just dead, with green puke and foam coming out of her mouth.  The other goat was fine and I still have her some years later.  The vet said it looked like rhododendron/laurel/azalea poisoning.  It is much more toxic in the spring when it is putting out new leaves...the same goat escaped into my yard the previous winter in mowed a tiny miniature rhody to the ground and was just fine.

We hired a big giant machine thingy (don't know what it was, it was HUGE) to come and strip the entire area, trees, brush, stumps, everything went.  Seeded, fenced, and done.  I patrol like a mad woman often and thoroughly.

Sorry, no treatment ideas, as we never saw a symptom in time.  She was a rather fragile goat, giving us many scares with no clear diagnosis.  She was a rescue, so who knows what she'd been through.  The vet made many payments on his truck thanks to that goat.

I hope your little girl isn't testing a few leaves now and then....get back out there and scour your area, inside the fence and as far outside of it as she might reach.  

I have oak, pine, poke, cherry, black walnut, and other things, but haven't had problems with them.  Oh, just one greedy pygmy who has been known to eat too many acorns in a banner year, but she can be confined when the acorns really start raining down.  We have pigs this year, so if I have to, I can have them clean up the acorns for me.  Just because the other goats don't eat something or too much of something doesn't mean ONE might not have a taste for it.  

There are oaks in New England that have much more tannins in them than some of the varieties on the west coast.  I did some research after we had so many that it was hard to walk under the trees, it was like walking on wall-to-wall marbles!  I learned that our red oaks have the most tannins (points on each leaf lobe), white oaks have less but still too much to safely eat in any quantity (rounded leaf lobes) and American Indians in CA could eat varieties found in that area without the long processing that ours need.  So not all oaks are created equal.  But acorns aren't an issue right now....but my point is, what is not a problem for one goat may be a problem for another.  And what might be fine as a mature plant might be poisonous while young and growing.  Just to make it trickier for us...


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## glenolam (Jun 4, 2010)

Just an update - she's fine again this morning.  No vomiting, no diarreah, nothing in their barn that suggests the mineral oil did it's job... 

Guess now we'll have to wait and see.  Good thing my husband took the day off - I put him on watch!


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