# Goat breed questions



## KristyHall (Jan 27, 2011)

I love goats milk and goats cheese. I have determined I will not get goats because I hear they are difficult to contain. I have neighbors with goats and those things are always getting out, even with electric fencing.
I will consider getting goats if I can find a milking breed that is not an escape artist and won't climb everything it sees.
Also I have heard of hobbling them. What is that? Is it like hobbling horses to prevent them from running off on camping trips?


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## cattlecait (Jan 27, 2011)

I've always had a soft spots for Toggenburgs. They're sweethearts and from my experience they're not as Houdini-like as some like Nubians and Pygmies. On the whole though almost any goat is going to test the fence. Toggs have great milk production and I've heard its nice for making cheese, I've never tried myself.

Off topic but where'd you get your signature? It was on a poster in my FFA advisor's classroom but we didn't know who it was by.


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## freemotion (Jan 27, 2011)

The only goat hobbles I know of are for kicking when being milked, not for grazing.  Goats can be contained in proper fencing.  The only escapes we have are when we (read:  I) don't latch the gate properly or try to carry too many things through the gate at once and get mobbed and run over!

You may have more success with a mature, heavier goat.  My mature dairy gals don't jump.  Electronet fencing is highly praised by almost everyone who uses it, too, and it can be moved.

Fencing is not just to keep goats in, it also needs to keep predators out.  I use 4' woven wire horse fencing with electric on top.

Bucks are more determined to escape if kept apart from does in heat.  But they usually want to get INTO the pasture, not into your neighbor's yard!

I've had many neighbors over the years who were terrible at keeping their animals either contained, properly fed, properly housed, or healthy.  That has no impact on how I keep my animals.  So research what you need to do to keep your goats contained, and determine if it is something you want to do, based on what works for experienced goat owners, not based on your neighbor.

Goats are wonderful, as long as you keep them safe and healthy.  They are so enjoyable, funny, friendly, cute, and the dairy products are amazingly delicious and healthy.  Go for it!


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## KristyHall (Jan 27, 2011)

cattlecait said:
			
		

> Off topic but where'd you get your signature? It was on a poster in my FFA advisor's classroom but we didn't know who it was by.


I picked it up off the e-mail signature of a friend. As a child i spent a lot of summers on the powwow trail and he and his family and my family traveled together a lot. He is a big supporter of returning to the old traditions including sustainable farming.


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## helmstead (Jan 27, 2011)

Escaping is not the fault of the goat, but rather the fault of the fencing.  We have never had luck with electric - SOME HAVE but we haven't.  Our goats rarely get out - we use field fence, woven.  I have one doe who learned how to open gates, but a snap fixed that (unless we forget to snap it!)...so unless Hottie lets her pen out that way, our goats are contained.


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## LadyNai (Jan 27, 2011)

We have alpines (And had them when I was a child as well) - and they can be escape artists.   In fact, I have not met a goat that was NOT an escape artist.   (They were ALMOST as bad as the Shetland I had as a kid, and that was bad)

What works for us are cattle panels from Rural King wired down to fence posts.   The nice thing about this is that you can move your pasture around as you want, reshape, use old pasture areas for spring gardening, etc...   They are not heavy, easy to move (they are awkward so I do reccomend two people) and last for YEARS.  (One friend has some that have lasted since the 1970's and are STILL in use right now.)

We have only had two issues with escapes since I've been home and it's because the wiring had gotten loose (Due to undoing it to send in the does for a quick date with the buck) and the other we still haven't figured out - one of the wethers somehow got in with buck, we still don't know how he got out (we suspect the buck aptly named Butthead, simply put his head between the back legs and flipped him over the fence.   Butthead is now described as Brats though mostly due to his inability to deal with humans and the fact he tried to attack the two hands that fed him)

So that's my recommendation.   Cattle panels are your friends.   And goats are big fun!


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 27, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Escaping is not the fault of the goat, but rather the fault of the fencing.




I have 48" woven wire with a single strand of electric 6" off the woven fence. It works wonderfully and I"ve never had anyone escape.  

I love my Oberhaslis. They're calm and don't challenge the fence much.  June never has. Theo, my buck did at first, but he was in the small pen with no electric.


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## rebelINny (Jan 27, 2011)

Haha! Butthead is a good name for a buck LOL. We use cattle panel also for our adult goats however if you want kid goats to stay in I would suggest some real good heavy duty goat paneling as I have had kids jump up past the small squares and right through the larger one's higher up much like a lion jumping through a ring of fire


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 27, 2011)

We use field fencing.  Mine don't make an effort to escape from a secure fence.  Just be sure shelters small enough to jump on top of are far enough from the fence that they don't have an obvious route over the top of the fence.  Even my buck stays put.


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## lilhill (Jan 27, 2011)

Never had an escape here in 6 years.  We did have one incident when hubby walked out of the pen and left the gate wide open.  A couple of the does walked thru the gate and just stood there because they didn't know what to do.  I had to go up to the barn and they were so happy to see a familiar face they followed me back into the pasture and the gate was shut behind them.  I totally agree that if you have proper fencing, you won't have escapes.  Oh, yeah, you need a hubby that remembers there's livestock behind that gate, too.


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## KristyHall (Jan 27, 2011)

I have good field fencing about 4 foot high with a strand of barb wire over the top. I only want a milk goat. Her kids will be sold or eaten. I also want a dexter cow as a dual purpose animal of milk/and the occasional light work oxen.
What breed of milk goat would be good? I need a good tempered, easy care milk goat that is less likely to test her fencing. For that matter how often should I give her break in between breeding and how long can I milk her before I let her dry up and rest? I ask because I intend on timing the cow's breeding and milking to fill in between the goat's.


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## Ariel301 (Jan 27, 2011)

I use chain link dog kennel panels that are 6 feet high to contain my goats. I have had a couple of goats manage to go over it, but that was because a shelter was too close to the fence, so they got on the roof of the shelter and then jumped over from there. Otherwise, the chain link panels work great and can be moved and rearranged as much as needed. 

I agree that you will be less likely to have escapes if you go with large size dairy goats, my big LaMancha girls have no interest in jumping or climbing, all they want is to eat and lay in the sun and sleep. Good sturdy fencing with nothing near it they can climb (houses, trees, etc) will keep them in. A foot high is not going to be tall enough even for a mini goat, you need a minimum of 4 feet high I'd say. Barbed wire won't keep them in, you have to have a wire mesh they cannot squeeze through. They can go between strands of barbed or electric wire, the shock may not even bother them. 

As far as a good tempered milker, I'd go with a LaMancha. They have the personality of a Golden Retriever dog, they are sweet and lovable and in your face, they love their people. They are good milkers too, one of decent quality can put out a gallon or even more a day, and they have a high butterfat content which makes the milk especially rich. They are good, easy going goats, and very smart, but mine seem content mostly to stay in their pens, I do have one that tries to open gates so I have to keep them locked to prevent her from doing so, but she's exceptional. I have only ever met one mean LaMancha, and I don't know what happened to her in the past...but with some love and patience she has become more good-natured, and her son is a complete lap dog so I think she may have been treated badly. 

The usual breeding cycle is to breed in the fall so that she will kid five months later. They will usually breed between August and January, they don't go into heat during the spring and summer. Once she kids, you can either bottle feed the babies and start milking right away (Give all the milk to the babies the first two days or so, you don't really want to be drinking the colostrum, that stuff doesn't taste good and the babies need it anyway) or you can let her nurse the babies and wean them at 2-3 months old, either milking part time during that period or waiting until they are done to start. Then you will milk through the summer and fall, breeding her again in the fall and giving her a two month dry period before kidding again. Some goats will keep milking through and only need breeding every other year, but most have to be bred annually.


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## elevan (Jan 27, 2011)

I've only had 2 escapes...

1 was a boer cross and my fences are maintained for pygmies, so he just jumped right over as they were too low.

1 is my 3 1/2 month old pygmy doeling who is very acrobatic.  My adults don't even try.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jan 27, 2011)

We use rough sawn lumber for my Nigies. Works like a dream. They don't even try to escape anymore. It took my husband abot 15 minutes to move our small pen, burying fence posts and all.


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## KristyHall (Jan 27, 2011)

Correction. 4 foot high!


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## helmstead (Jan 27, 2011)

Um, a quick note...

You can't just have ONE, or yes, you're going to have a lonely goat escaping all the time trying to find a companion.  You WILL need two.


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## theawesomefowl (Jan 27, 2011)

I love the way Oberhaslis look!


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## emilypaonia (Jan 28, 2011)

I have the 4 ft high "hog panels" or welded wire I have also heard it called.  Pounded in some solid T-posts to hold it up and I have never had a problem.  Plus I can move them around to design new set-ups.  My goat area is surrounded on 3 sides by orchards and they never get in.  Well, one figured out how to work the latch on the gate and they were all standing in the yard.  Fixed the latch and that's the end of that problem.

I have alpines and was told when I got them they are jumpers - have not experienced that.

Keeping goats in is about good fencing and fixing holes right away if you have any.  They will learn quickly where you have become lazy.  I have never had luck with goats and electric fencing.  I have a friend, his goats get out nearly every day, he has electric fencing.

I also want to caution anyone against barbed wire for ALL animals, especially dairy animals, with udders that could get seriously maimed if they test the fence.  Seems like we don't want to injure them if they decide to try the fence, we want to make a secure enough fence so that when they do try, they remain healthy and inside the fence.  I have seen horses get all scratched up from barbed wire fence.


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## elevan (Jan 28, 2011)

emilypaonia said:
			
		

> I also want to caution anyone against barbed wire for ALL animals, especially dairy animals, with udders that could get seriously maimed if they test the fence.  Seems like we don't want to injure them if they decide to try the fence, we want to make a secure enough fence so that when they do try, they remain healthy and inside the fence.  I have seen horses get all scratched up from barbed wire fence.


x2

We have a horse whose previous owner used barbed wire and she got tangled up in it.  Barbed wire is awful stuff.


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## KristyHall (Jan 28, 2011)

I grew up using barb wire but the last couple of years I have been replacing it with good field fencing as I can get the time and afford it. I'm pretty darns low between my injuries and taking care of my disabled parents and the animals, turning the undeveloped land into something suitable for a large herd, and keeping the house clean (though I SUCK at house cleaning) *watches the dust bunnies dance by*
Still, I am replacing the stuff because of hearing so many horror stories about it.
I think I am still leaning towards sheep and cows over goats *hides*      but I will keep investigating goat breeds because I may change my mind


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## Hillbilly (Jan 28, 2011)

I have 2 Toggenburgs.
the fence is 1M high, with a single strand of electric fence about 12-18" in front of it.
It was heartbreaking the first time they each touched the strand, and one didn't realise it was the same wire in front of her favourite shrub, but now they just eye it suspiciously and stay clear.
Like others I won't put a strand of barbed wire on top, tho I may do for the new fields we are fencing for cattle or sheep - to stop people and dogs taking short cuts.
The goats I am hoping to run thru altenate years, so there 'should' always be milk available.
(I've always wanted Dexters as well, hopefully that time may be coming soon)


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## KristyHall (Jan 28, 2011)

Hillbilly said:
			
		

> I have 2 Toggenburgs.
> the fence is 1M high, with a single strand of electric fence about 12-18" in front of it.
> It was heartbreaking the first time they each touched the strand, and one didn't realise it was the same wire in front of her favourite shrub, but now they just eye it suspiciously and stay clear.
> Like others I won't put a strand of barbed wire on top, tho I may do for the new fields we are fencing for cattle or sheep - to stop people and dogs taking short cuts.
> ...


I have problems with people taking short cuts across my property including kids on 4 wheelers. By the time I get close enough to yell at  them they're long gone dangit! Also the barb wire on the top of the field fencing stops my horses from scratching their necks on the top of the field fencing and pushing it down. Its soooo annoying!
I am luck, I live an hour from a dexter cattle breeder so when I'm ready, I'm gonna get some from him! eeeee!


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## Roll farms (Jan 28, 2011)

I've had sheep, llamas, goats, alpacas, horses, cows, and goats.

Generally speaking....Gimme goats ANY day.

JMO, but their personalities make them so darn much fun to have, and easy to love.


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