# Pasture design question



## ullbergm (Dec 27, 2021)

Good day, I'm brand new to this forum so I hope this is the appropriate sub forum to post this in since it has to do with sheep.

We are located in Eastern North Carolina and our goal is to get Katahdins this Spring with the goal of doing market lambs once we are established. We have been doing research for the couple of years, but there are so many different opinions out there.

In preparation for getting animals I spoke to the local Ag extension agent and it was recommended that I plant one summer grass section and one winter grass section in order to have forage growing through the year. I seeded 3 acres of novel endophyte tall fescue (Martin 2 Protek) in the Fall of 2020 and 3 acres of bermuda (Gaucho Bermudagrass) in the Spring of 2021.

The Bermuda is dormant right now but seems to have established nicely, we will see what it looks once it warms up. The Fescue has quite a bit of weeds in there and is not super thick, need to figure out if i need to fertilize it but I'm afraid that I'll fertilize the weeds at the same time..

The pasture has 6" wooden post H-braces in the corners and by the gate, the line posts are T-Posts and I have Red Brand 1348-4-12½ woven wire fence stretched around the perimeter.

I have electric service by the gate and the plan is to add electric fence to the perimeter and use that to hook the temporary fencing for the rotational grazing paddocks.
There are zero trees / shade as this used to be a farm field and I have not ran any water lines yet.

My question right now is how I should set up rotational grazing, plus another a million questions..
Should I do a wagon wheel plan with water in the center and paddocks fanning out from the center, or if i should try to do more rectangular sections.
Should i fence off a sacrificial area near the gate if i need to feed hay in order to let the pasture rest (drought, etc.)?
What about separating a ram from the ewes?
I know stocking rate depends a lot on how productive the pasture is, so our plan is to start with a smaller flock and expand if we see that the pasture can support more. What would be a good number to start with, not knowing how good the pasture is?
How big should the paddocks be?

Long-term plan is to build a barn by the gate.

Pasture dimensions:
West side: 580 ft
North side: 550 ft
East side: 700 ft
South side: 400 ft
Gate: 12 ft


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## secuono (Dec 28, 2021)

If the water source never moves, plan on putting down a huge gravel or concrete area to reduce the mud and filth that will build up.
Having multiple water sources, which they only use a short time, allows the ground to recover and not turn into a pit.

I'm in Va, so not that far. Had very dry summers, but still had some grass for my 20ish sheep at the time, on 4 acres. I didn't move them to feed hay, instead, I brought it out to the paddock they were in. But a sacrifice area may work better for you.

My rams live in a bachelor flock that also rotates with one paddock between them and the ewes. You may need more fencing between your rams and ewes, as I hear some rams are dumb and follow their testicles into trouble.
He'll need at least one friend.

I can tell you that 30 is max for 4 acres in my area.
I now move ewes and ewelings out onto winter field to grow, 20acres, instead of keeping them rotating. The rams use the 4 acres to rotate on. I've had max 8 rams so far. They use the whole area for winter.

You don't mention how and where you will lamb. Keeping all lambs, selling them all? Get as many ewes as you think you can easily handle and house during lambing troubles.
If they're just growing lambs this year, you can stock more, but may not be able to feed the same number once adult and have lambs on their sides.

Size depends on number of sheep and how long you want to rest it. A lot of sheep will eat and trample faster, so need bigger paddocks, but if you want long rests, you need smaller paddocks to move them sooner.

Edited my post because I missed some things you wrote. 😅


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## Baymule (Dec 28, 2021)

I now have a sheep barn and lot to dry lot them in. 1 pasture is connected, have to call them across and down the driveway to move them to other pastures. Their barn is a lean to off the side of a 24' long portable building. Can't drive a tractor in it. I'm selling and will be buying another place. I've done some things right and some things wrong.

My opinion for what it's worth is the strips with a lane from the gate to the barn. Have a dry lot with the barn so you can close them off the grass when necessary. The pinwheel shape is not tractor friendly and you will need to get in/out of the pastures with a tractor for various reasons. Hang 16' gates to each of the strip pastures for swing room for the tractor. You will be glad you did. Also need a turn around cul-de-sac at the barn/lot for the tractor with enough room for implements like a bush hog.

Sheep will need shade for hot days. If you leave the gates open so they can go back to the barn in the heat of the day, then you won't have to put up shade shelters for them. 

You can center the barn or put it up to the front for easier access. Does it get muddy? Do you haul feed in the truck and would it get stuck or rut up the lane in wet weather? If barn is at the front, make a drive through barn. My horse barn has an alley 15' high to accommodate a cab tractor or horse and rider. The alley is 12' wide and should have been 14' wide. I have a feed and tack room in it, it is so convenient to just drive through the barn!  My next sheep barn will be built like this. It is 36'x36', but the next one will be 2' wider. For sheep, the horse stalls could be built for sheep jugs on one side and working equipment on the other side. The alley will have a gate on both ends for closing them up at night if I want to. 

Use radiant heat barrier under the roofing material for the barn. If you put in a metal roof, go the extra mile and deck it with plywood, roofing felt (tar paper) and radiant barrier. Then put the metal on top. It will keep the barn up to 10 or 15 degrees cooler in the summer. 

If you feed round bales, you can extend the roof in a lean to shelter to put the hay under. Just make sure you can get a tractor under the roof! Will work for square bales too. Got to keep hay dry.

@Mini Horses you have a lane/pasture set up. Got any ideas?


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## Baymule (Dec 28, 2021)

I raise Katahdins. Wonderful sheep, I love them!

Another thought, if you put the barn up front, recess the barn from the front fence. For instance, hang a 16' gate in the fence. Then dry lot, barn with gate. That way you have a double gate system to keep sheep in better! Can never have too many gates! LOL


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## Alaskan (Dec 28, 2021)

My thoughts depend on if you are starting small.... or big...

If you are starting with just three ewes...  you could use a mobile electric fence for inner paddocks.

Using a mobile electric fence with step in posts would give you time to get to know your place, the seasons, and how the sheep like to do things.  

With 3 or 5 sheep, hauling water out to a water trough isn't a big trouble.

I just throw that idea out because it sure was nice with horses.  I could look out and see if the pasture needed to be bigger,  smaller, or moved...  and walk out and move it.

Now...  with a big flock ...  that idea wouldn't be good....

I second @Baymule 's comments.  Especially on the barn.  I really like HUGE hay storage, where the hay can be perfectly dry, lots of air, and no sun.  And, nothing better than dropping the hay directly into the hay feeder from the hay loft.   The further the hay is hauled, the more you lose.  We were able to store both squares and big rounds in our hay loft...  we had a ramp and pulley for the rounds.

As to pasture set-up.....  several people on here really like the alley system.   I have never had a set-up like that...  so haven't ever managed to wrap my head around it.   


However you set it up...  it is very personal preference....  but...  the water area is always a sacrificial area.   And, they will usually need access to shade/shelter.

Often it is easiest to make a shelter next to the water, and then the shelter/water area also has sorting pens...  and 2 or 4 pastures open onto the water/shelter area. 

However...  if the water area has only water...  and then each pasture that opens onto the water has its own shelter at the end farthest from the water....  it helps to spread out the grazing pressure..  the animals are encouraged to walk more and spread out their grazing/graze the pasture more evenly.   You can also help to encourage more spread out grazing by where you put their minerals.

I also second baymule on the huge gates.

So....before starting to put in interior fences... see where the truck can drive (some areas might be too soft in spring).  Sketch out the drive-able areas.  Then decide where the barn and sorting pens will go, and what kind/how many shelters you can afford/want to put up.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Dec 28, 2021)

G'day, you are certainly doing the right thing consulting with the group before you start.

It has been our experience in over almost 50 years of livestock production that the key is to have your required infrastructure in "place", before you introduce the stock. The fact is that "starting from scratch" you have much to learn ,I am still learning about stock, landscape and water even after all these years.

Do you get snow? Can you graze year round? Are there other sheep folks nearby?

On your plan you do not indicate where your house is? I would suggest about a level walk of about 50 meters. Bay is correct about a BIG BARN the largest you can afford. I would also suggest a set of yards with a drafting race and if you can include a sheep handler ,mores the better .If at all possible stay away from the wool breeds unless you are going to learn ,"how to shear and have a shearing stand off of a small set of yards in the barn." However ,it could be you have a ready made market to hand spinners and weavers ?If this was the case enquire as to what type of wool they prefer? If you can secure the sheep a small flock of Naturally Colored Corridales would return a premium for the fleece and still produce an acceptable table lamb or sell excess boys as "lawnmowers." When Jenny and our girls were young I bred a flock like this because they took up spinning. Over time I had customers from the city who would travel to the farm and select a sheep and I would shear it on the spot. 

Now to your meat sheep choice, who will buy your lambs? If you breed a lamb for the white folks market ,you are immediately in competition with sheep farmers who may run 500/1000 ewes and you will struggle to produce a lamb at any where near the cost they can .I would look around your immediate area ,how far to your nearest large population center? What is the ethnic breakup, does the town have a mosque? here is an immediate market for the "right" type of lamb and will return a premium price ,if you are producing a sheep that looks in part like the sheep of their homeland. Setting up this flock will be more expensive than the "run of the mill sheep flock", but you will be a "price setter ,not a price taker."

In closing can I suggest you take a look at FB Australian Painted Sheep, this is my group ,made up of about 75% female sheep farmers and a great group of girls to boot.......T.O.R.


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## Mini Horses (Dec 29, 2021)

I have 15 acres, which has several shelters and cross fencing.  First mini horses, now a few old minis and a lot of goats...more coming🤣.  I have trees but, none when I bought 20 yr ago....huge peanut field before....open land.

In general, my land is a rectangle and I DO have a drive thru alley the entire length.  Fortunately,  I installed underground water lines top to bottom.  Pastures are to right and left of drive alley...lot of gates!   But, I can use that alley to move animals pasture to pasture very easily.    Yes, you NEED a sacrifice area.   My land drains well, so seldom mud, but occasionally see some in high traffic areas....water tubs.  I have used perforated grids in those areas with success to keep dirt from being washed out.

Size of pastures vary.  I rarely use temp electric fence for rotation but, have are times.  Mainly because of my fence and cross fencing, I have rotation in place.  Didn't happen overnight!

Grasses here are mixed, along with forages that some may consider undesirable BUT goats do not.😁 Yes I encourage dandelions and routinely toss seed for chicory, turnips, vetch, etc.   In fall, barley is added.  No chemicals used here.  Some forage is only good for certain seasons (heat/cool) and that's fine as there is a good stand of mixed grass established.  You plant for what your animals need.   Sheep graze grasses better than goats.

Varieties of the grasses you suggest have different growth and nutrition factors, so check that out.  Bermuda has good forage type and others that are not so productive.   Fescue, use less toxic endophyte types.  You will need shade for these animals.  Areas like a a carport are easy to add.  I'm in VA, SE corner, so only a few miles from NC line.   We get heat!


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## ullbergm (Dec 29, 2021)

Wow, so many good answers from a lot of people, i'll try to answer them as best i can.



secuono said:


> If the water source never moves, plan on putting down a huge gravel or concrete area to reduce the mud and filth that will build up.
> Having multiple water sources, which they only use a short time, allows the ground to recover and not turn into a pit.



That's a good point, and after making the post I did some more research and moving the water seems like a better idea for the pasture even if it adds a little work for me.



secuono said:


> I'm in Va, so not that far. Had very dry summers, but still had some grass for my 20ish sheep at the time, on 4 acres. I didn't move them to feed hay, instead, I brought it out to the paddock they were in. But a sacrifice area may work better for you.



Did you continue to rotate them and added some extra food in the form of hay so that they did not trample one part of the pasture?



secuono said:


> My rams live in a bachelor flock that also rotates with one paddock between them and the ewes. You may need more fencing between your rams and ewes, as I hear some rams are dumb and follow their testicles into trouble.
> He'll need at least one friend.


Sounds easy enough (assuming he is not a trouble maker..)



secuono said:


> I can tell you that 30 is max for 4 acres in my area.


That's good to know.


secuono said:


> You don't mention how and where you will lamb. Keeping all lambs, selling them all? Get as many ewes as you think you can easily handle and house during lambing troubles.
> If they're just growing lambs this year, you can stock more, but may not be able to feed the same number once adult and have lambs on their sides.


I'm kinda thinking of just some young ewes first and run them without a ram for the first year in order to learn some of the management practices and then plan on lambing next spring.


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## ullbergm (Dec 29, 2021)

Baymule said:


> I now have a sheep barn and lot to dry lot them in. 1 pasture is connected, have to call them across and down the driveway to move them to other pastures. Their barn is a lean to off the side of a 24' long portable building. Can't drive a tractor in it. I'm selling and will be buying another place. I've done some things right and some things wrong.
> 
> My opinion for what it's worth is the strips with a lane from the gate to the barn. Have a dry lot with the barn so you can close them off the grass when necessary. The pinwheel shape is not tractor friendly and you will need to get in/out of the pastures with a tractor for various reasons. Hang 16' gates to each of the strip pastures for swing room for the tractor. You will be glad you did. Also need a turn around cul-de-sac at the barn/lot for the tractor with enough room for implements like a bush hog.


Good point on being able to navigate things with the tractor. I'm now thinking that I'll run temporary netting until i know more about how things work on my land (like Alaskan suggested).



Baymule said:


> Sheep will need shade for hot days. If you leave the gates open so they can go back to the barn in the heat of the day, then you won't have to put up shade shelters for them.



How far will they walk for shade? will they walk 500 ft from the forage to get to the barn?



Baymule said:


> You can center the barn or put it up to the front for easier access. Does it get muddy? Do you haul feed in the truck and would it get stuck or rut up the lane in wet weather? If barn is at the front, make a drive through barn. My horse barn has an alley 15' high to accommodate a cab tractor or horse and rider. The alley is 12' wide and should have been 14' wide. I have a feed and tack room in it, it is so convenient to just drive through the barn!  My next sheep barn will be built like this. It is 36'x36', but the next one will be 2' wider. For sheep, the horse stalls could be built for sheep jugs on one side and working equipment on the other side. The alley will have a gate on both ends for closing them up at night if I want to.


I like that idea.

If it rains super hard then i do tend to get some standing water along the dividing line between the two different forages, so putting the barn in the center and driving in to it would require me to put in a proper gravel road.



Baymule said:


> Another thought, if you put the barn up front, recess the barn from the front fence. For instance, hang a 16' gate in the fence. Then dry lot, barn with gate. That way you have a double gate system to keep sheep in better! Can never have too many gates! LOL



Would you put the barn (red) inside or outside the pasture? Grey lines being the dry-lot.
Inside the pasture would give me more space to play with.


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## ullbergm (Dec 29, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> My thoughts depend on if you are starting small.... or big...
> 
> If you are starting with just three ewes...  you could use a mobile electric fence for inner paddocks.
> 
> ...



I like that, I'm not wanting to start out with too many and get overwhelmed, in beekeeping I always tell people that you start with a couple of hives and then you double each year. That way your management practices can grow with your apiary, if you go from 2 hives to 50 hives that is a whole different way of managing things.



Alaskan said:


> Now...  with a big flock ...  that idea wouldn't be good....



Any ideas as to about where the line is between small and big flock where temporary netting and moving water would get impractical? 5, 10, 50?



Alaskan said:


> I second @Baymule 's comments.  Especially on the barn.  I really like HUGE hay storage, where the hay can be perfectly dry, lots of air, and no sun.  And, nothing better than dropping the hay directly into the hay feeder from the hay loft.   The further the hay is hauled, the more you lose.  We were able to store both squares and big rounds in our hay loft...  we had a ramp and pulley for the rounds.


I'm guessing its like most things, you never hear someone say they built the barn too big?  



Alaskan said:


> I also second baymule on the huge gates.
> 
> So....before starting to put in interior fences... see where the truck can drive (some areas might be too soft in spring).  Sketch out the drive-able areas.  Then decide where the barn and sorting pens will go, and what kind/how many shelters you can afford/want to put up.


Yeah, I like the idea of not putting in many permanent things until after I see how things really end up working.


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## ullbergm (Dec 29, 2021)

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day, you are certainly doing the right thing consulting with the group before you start.


Sometimes I tend to over-analyze things to the point where I never actually get started, lol.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> It has been our experience in over almost 50 years of livestock production that the key is to have your required infrastructure in "place", before you introduce the stock. The fact is that "starting from scratch" you have much to learn ,I am still learning about stock, landscape and water even after all these years.


That makes a lot of sense, much harder to build a barn if you have to worry about the animals escaping while you drive the tractor around.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Do you get snow? Can you graze year round? Are there other sheep folks nearby?


No snow to speak of here, I planted both a warm and a cold season pasture based on the recommendation from the local Ag Extension, so my hope would be that i could graze year round.
There are a few small sheep/goat operations within 50 miles, but not a lot.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> On your plan you do not indicate where your house is? I would suggest about a level walk of about 50 meters.


The house/garden/etc. is on the west side, the house is about 75m from the gate on the map, all flat ground.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Bay is correct about a BIG BARN the largest you can afford. I would also suggest a set of yards with a drafting race and if you can include a sheep handler ,mores the better.


I'm not familiar with what a drafting race is/does. I have seen some of the sheep handling equipment in videos that help you sort them.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> If at all possible stay away from the wool breeds unless you are going to learn ,"how to shear and have a shearing stand off of a small set of yards in the barn." However ,it could be you have a ready made market to hand spinners and weavers ?If this was the case enquire as to what type of wool they prefer? If you can secure the sheep a small flock of Naturally Colored Corridales would return a premium for the fleece and still produce an acceptable table lamb or sell excess boys as "lawnmowers." When Jenny and our girls were young I bred a flock like this because they took up spinning. Over time I had customers from the city who would travel to the farm and select a sheep and I would shear it on the spot.


From the research I have done, there is no market for wool around here (even though that's what my daughter would prefer we do rather than meat sheep..).



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Now to your meat sheep choice, who will buy your lambs? If you breed a lamb for the white folks market ,you are immediately in competition with sheep farmers who may run 500/1000 ewes and you will struggle to produce a lamb at any where near the cost they can .I would look around your immediate area ,how far to your nearest large population center? What is the ethnic breakup, does the town have a mosque? here is an immediate market for the "right" type of lamb and will return a premium price ,if you are producing a sheep that looks in part like the sheep of their homeland. Setting up this flock will be more expensive than the "run of the mill sheep flock", but you will be a "price setter ,not a price taker."


I have been doing market research and we have a mosque in our town and a sizable Hispanic population as well. 

The other major market would be the affluent areas of one of the large cities that is not too far away (80km).

I had not considered that the breed looking like what they are used to from their home land would make a difference.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> In closing can I suggest you take a look at FB Australian Painted Sheep, this is my group ,made up of about 75% female sheep farmers and a great group of girls to boot.......T.O.R.



I'll check that out, thanks.


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## ullbergm (Dec 29, 2021)

Mini Horses said:


> I have 15 acres, which has several shelters and cross fencing.  First mini horses, now a few old minis and a lot of goats...more coming🤣.  I have trees but, none when I bought 20 yr ago....huge peanut field before....open land.


That's pretty much where we are at now, we got 15 acres from a field that has been farmed for a long time and now we are trying to make something of it.



Mini Horses said:


> Grasses here are mixed, along with forages that some may consider undesirable BUT goats do not.😁 Yes I encourage dandelions and routinely toss seed for chicory, turnips, vetch, etc.   In fall, barley is added.  No chemicals used here.  Some forage is only good for certain seasons (heat/cool) and that's fine as there is a good stand of mixed grass established.  You plant for what your animals need.   Sheep graze grasses better than goats.


I keep honey bees so i encourage dandelions and random wild flowers as well. 👍



Mini Horses said:


> Varieties of the grasses you suggest have different growth and nutrition factors, so check that out.  Bermuda has good forage type and others that are not so productive.   Fescue, use less toxic endophyte types.


I've been taking soil samples and got some suggestions as far as what to fertilize with, i'm trying to get up with the Ag Extension now to see what they recommend. I'm afraid of feeding the weeds as well if i fertilize..



Mini Horses said:


> You will need shade for these animals.  Areas like a a carport are easy to add.  I'm in VA, SE corner, so only a few miles from NC line.   We get heat!



It does get hot in the summers around here, that's for sure..


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## Baymule (Dec 29, 2021)

I definitely like the barn in the pasture. Dry lot fence in front and in the back too. It gives you options. 

I built a Pig Palace. LOL It is a 12'x12' three sided shed with a 200' roll of wire enclosure with a 12' gate. So they had plenty of room. It is between the garden fence, a pasture fence and an outside boundary fence. My husband wanted to use the existing fences, I refused, preferring to double fence the pig pen. Why? Because if the pigs got out, they were still contained. If I used the existing fences and they got in the garden, it would be destroyed. If they got out on the outside fence, they would be OUT and GONE. 

So use the same thought on your barn and dry lot. Out can mean an inconvenience or it can mean GONE. 

If you buy round bales, be sure you have a big enough tractor to move them.

Water. I have a small flock ATM. I'll be moving with 14 ewes and a ram. Since only one of my pastures is connected to the barn, I have to haul water to the daily pastures. Big pain in the behind. I don't plan on doing that again. 

When you run water lines, put a cut off valve on EVERY faucet. If you get lots of freezing weather, use frost free faucets. I don't have any of those, but I can see how they would be very useful. On below freezing weather, I cut off the water to the faucets and open the faucets all the way.

Temporary  netting. If you are going to set it up, run the lane, then "move" the pastures to see if you like the lane idea. 

Pastures. I use a mix of cool season and warm season grasses. The more variety, the better. Pure bermuda and pure fescue is boring and can be nutritionally deficient. Think of it this way. Say your favorite food is broccoli. You LOVE broccoli. But you only get broccoli for every meal and nothing else. How long will it take for you to be starving for something else, something with a different nutrition in in that your body craves? As @Mini Horses said, Chicory, dandelion, vetch and other "weeds" and grass roots all reach to different depths in the soil and bring up different nutrients in their leaves. 

In early spring when the grasses are vibrant green and soft, they are also watery. My sheep will come off pasture and hit the hay for the fiber in it. I keep baking soda out for them to stave off bloat. The new green grasses will bloat them up and they die. When coming off dry lot, I limit their time on new grass to 2 hours, then back to dry lot with hay and baking soda. 

My sheep are hitting a patch of chickweed that grows rampant in horse manure behind the big barn. It is high in vitamin C and minerals. It is actually pretty good, makes a good salad or tacos. LOL But I pick mine where the livestock doesn't graze. 

If you decide to divide your land into pastures, you might plant patches of different plants in them. Sheep will eat chicory to the ground and kill it. So if you had a chicory pasture and rotated them on/off you wouldn't let them eat it to the ground. Plus you could let it bloom and go to seed in the fall, thus replenishing your chicory stand. 

I have a mix of clovers on the land too. Clovers will bloat sheep, so must be planted with other cool season grasses such as fescue and rye grass. Keep out the baking soda! I found the white clovers to reseed and come back the best. Arrow leaf clover did not do well for me. 

I hope all this makes sense and helps you. The best thing about getting advice from so many different people, is that you can choose what applies to you, your land and what you want to do. None of this is chiseled in granite and is for you to make up your own farm plan that best suits you.


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## Baymule (Dec 29, 2021)

Have you checked out any livestock auctions in your area? See which ones offer a sheep/goat auction and go to it. See what is selling, ask buyers questions, watch and learn. 

I was selling the meat. but the slaughter facilities got so backed up, they are booking 1 1/2 years out in advance. It is crazy. How can I set a slaughter date on a lamb that hasn't even been conceived yet? It might be better in your area, call slaughter places and make inquiries. If you sell the meat, it must be slaughtered at a USDA facility. If you sell the whole live animal to an individual, you can deliver it as a courtesy to the buyer. Then they can call and give cutting instructions and pick up their meat and pay the processing. Then you can use a state licensed custom slaughter facility. 

It got to be a headache, so I just started taking mine to auction and have been happy with the results. 

Some auctions do not handle sheep and goats, only cattle. Call around, go to the auctions and see for yourself. I'll be moving to an area where the sheep and goat sales are limited and really, pretty lousy. I'll probably be loading up and coming back up here to the auction I go to now. I'll be doing some auction shopping myself. LOL LOL


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## Alaskan (Dec 29, 2021)

ullbergm said:


> Any ideas as to about where the line is between small and big flock where temporary netting and moving water would get impractical? 5, 10, 50?


When the water hauling is too much trouble.  That is the cut off.



ullbergm said:


> I'm guessing its like most things, you never hear someone say they built the barn too big?


So true!

And look at some old barns too...  Most barns now a days are just big pole barns..  really just a huge rectangle.   But, there are other options.  

There is one old barn (back in Texas) we have where the main floor is an elevated wood floor...  and it also has a loft...  but then you walk out of the hay area on a walkway that puts your feet at the height of the feed troughs.  It has a really long feed trough the entire long side of the barn.  I like the height that barn gives you, looking out over the backs of the cattle.  Great conditions for hay storage too.

The barn we built up here is a drive through pole barn with a loft.   The loft is nice and big, great hay storage.   if I could do anything different I would shift the roof so rain and snow didn't dump right at the door (but spouse thought it looked prettier   so that is what we have)

Also... with barns....  we put our barn up at the winter paddock.   We rarely if ever feed hay in summer.  So the summer pasture has no barn.  The summer pasture has a clump of trees cut back to make a natural run-in.  

Now with you....  would you feed hay all year?  Or mostly summer?  Or, mostly winter?

if you feed hay mostly in the winter...  I would put the barn in the winter pasture area.

Make sure you make room for sorting pens, with a squeeze shoot so you can doctor, and a ramp to get them up into the truck.


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## Mini Horses (Dec 29, 2021)

Toting water.   When I first moved here...no house completed, a travel trailer...water transport was an issue.  I bought a 50 gal container, flat bottom, longish.  It fit beautifully in a tow trailer behind a mower.   Fill, transport, open nozzle, fill water tanks.  Still have and haved used for only water.  Storm coming?  No power.  Fill and use.

It was handy to water trees where not enough hose to reach them!


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## secuono (Dec 30, 2021)

ullbergm said:


> Wow, so many good answers from a lot of people, i'll try to answer them as best i can.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, they kept moving and hay was in a new spot.



*ullbergm said:
Any ideas as to about where the line is between small and big flock where temporary netting and moving water would get impractical? 5, 10, 50?*


I use 15gal rubber bins, a float valve and lots of garden hose. I just dump them to rinse out as needed.


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