# Abnormal large lump on goat flank in ~36 hours time. Ideas?



## Latestarter (Aug 30, 2018)

2 days ago as I was feeding the goats their evening pellets, I was setting out their food bowls inside their pen when a dead tree was blown down by the wind, inside their pen. All the goats were in the area and scattered but some may have been "nicked" by branches as the tree came to rest. I didn't actually see any get hit directly, but did watch the tree come down and hit the ground. This morning, while feeding the goats their pellets, I noticed that one of this years kids (PB&J, CC's single doeling from this April) had a palm sized "lump" on her flank, aft of her rib cage and down below her spinal area. Here are pictures from this evening:





And slightly closer view.




She did NOT like me touching/probing it but I was able to get hold of her & feel it and it is smooth, NOT hard, "jiggly" like jello/pudding, does not seem to be causing her undue stress or pain, she's eating, drinking, moving, pooping, etc, not grinding teeth or crying, even when being touched there.

Possible hernia? but doesn't "feel" like intestines. Not disease as happened over night, too large, wrong placement. Possible contusion/hematoma from getting hit by tree branch when tree fell, or head butt?

Should I pierce with syringe and see what comes out? Worried about poss contamination /sepsis if it IS intestines and I pierce with a needle... Really don't need a goat surgery bill right now, but then who does?


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## Wehner Homestead (Aug 31, 2018)

Really not sure...I’ll ponder on it though.


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## Wehner Homestead (Aug 31, 2018)

It definitely wouldn’t hurt to have a vet check it over though!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 31, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Possible contusion/hematoma



I have no idea but does sound like some sort of hematoma. 
Hate to say it but sounds like a vet visit. 

Very interesting. I'll be waiting to hear what comes of it.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 1, 2018)

How's she doing - any change in size or appearance??


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## Latestarter (Sep 1, 2018)

She's doing just fine... keeping her distance from the others so they don't bump her, and she still doesn't like me touching it, but it hasn't changed, still there, still the same size, no obvious puncture wound, still "jiggly"...


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## Southern by choice (Sep 1, 2018)

No fever or anything?  It sounds like it's pretty tender. 
Really strange.


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## Latestarter (Sep 1, 2018)

I don't think me touching it "hurts", but kinda freaks her out a bit because it's not normal... No fever, no significant changes in any facet of her everyday life


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 1, 2018)

One of my does who I sold last year had something similar (I don’t remember if it was her right or left side). It wasn’t as big. She had it since I bought her and it never seemed to bother her and would sometimes go away a little bit of I remember correctly.  I had her for about a year and a half.


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## Latestarter (Sep 2, 2018)

Thanks GAF. Did you ever try to lance it to see what was inside?


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## Southern by choice (Sep 2, 2018)




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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 2, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Thanks GAF. Did you ever try to lance it to see what was inside?


No. I think it was just part of her rumen. I wish I had pics if it. I don’t remember it feeling weird.


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## Latestarter (Sep 4, 2018)

OK, the deed has been done, diagnosis was correct, large blood blister/hematoma with some clotting internally. I shaved the area, which she was "OK" with, no real fighting. I used a syringe to try and draw out contents and came out pure blood, no real fighting. Then expanded the needle hole just a bit to allow the contents to drain. I drew up a syringe of hydrogen peroxide and injected it into the hole to help clean the pocket out (like done with a cyst).

She went absolutely nuts! She broke the restraint I had attaching her collar to the gate. I managed to grab a rear hock as she was trying to bolt and we both ended up rolling around and laying on the ground out of breath. Her trying to get away, and me trying to prevent it. Finally got her under control and luckily she hadn't broken her collar. I squeezed out the remainder of the contents and then applied iodine and triple antibiotic to the tiny hole. She then calmed back down and I released her.

The skin over the pocket feels "dry" and not supple like live skin should feel, and it's been detached from the underlying muscle for 5 days, so may have died...  I'll check her again tomorrow and if it seems that's the case, she'll be vet bound to have the dead skin removed and the area sewn up. Fun, fun, fun.

I only got one picture, but it's going to have to do. This was at the end and I had to use the now broken clip to hold her to the gate to take it. You can see some of the frothy blood from the peroxide and a bit of the clotted blood down low where it ran out on her hair. There was no indication that her internal body cavity had been breached (by feel). I would guess there was a good 1/2 cup of blood in there.





I'm going to just determine that the injury had to have occurred when the tree came down. A branch must have struck her a glancing blow, enough to cause a huge blood blister/hematoma but not enough to break the skin. Poor girl... I expect/hope she'll recover just fine.


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## Mike CHS (Sep 4, 2018)

I hope you can keep it clean.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 4, 2018)

Holy Moly!  You're braver than I am!  But glad to see it wasn't guts coming outta there.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 4, 2018)

If it ever happens again don't use  hydrogen peroxide. It actually eats away at good tissue. Use a saline flush and then betadine.
That was a huge hematoma.  Also before you ever inject, lance etc thoroughly clean the outside so you don't introduce any external nasty bacteria.

You really need to build a stanchion.  You will be so glad you did once you do. You probably have enough scrap wood laying around and they are so easy. I know you have been having difficulty with your hand... maybe if you have someone to cut the wood you could easily do the rest. Save your back!  
Our stanchions don't work real good with the big bucks as their necks don't fit and they are so powerful they could flip one in a second... but for the does... much easier on the body (especially aging body's  trust me I know)


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## Latestarter (Sep 4, 2018)

Man... I def hear you on the stanchion. Believe me, it is in the offing. Already have 2 new pallets to start with for the base. Right now though, priorities are to get a doe house built so I can get the bucks quarantined and the does all luted, get another hay feeder built so I have one for both pens, and complete the pen rearrangement. The doe bldg will be 24' x 16', (bucks is 4' x 8') raised floor. Hope to start on it once the weather breaks, my hands and legs work adequately, or regardless of both... 

I used the peroxide because I've seen that done multiple times on Dr. Pol episodes for cysts & hematomas, as it "bubbles" all the crap out of the pocket...   It also kills any bad stuff it contacts, which saline won't do. And boy can I attest, it absolutely bubbles out!  I won't continue to do it, but figured the first time would be the best procedure to use to achieve the desired results. It broke up the clotted blood inside to make it removable through the small hole. It was a very large blood blister ... She must have gotten whacked a good glancing blow to cause that damage. I knew it couldn't be innards just from the feel of it and the way it was "pear shaped" with the stuff collecting at the bottom of the pocket. I just wish now that I had lanced it earlier as the skin would most likely have shrunk back down and re-adhered to the underlying musculature. Obviously I'll be monitoring her closely and a vet visit is still a distinct possibility. 

Thanks all for your help, and comments. I'll continue to update.


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## Latebloomerar (Sep 5, 2018)

I had a little doe that had the same thing this summer I took her to the vet and he lanced it. We cleaned it every evening with and iodine the vet sent home. On the third day a piece of grass came out of the abscess that was really stiff. Can only think the lawn mower got her and she healed up and then created the nasty lump. 



Latestarter said:


> 2 days ago as I was feeding the goats their evening pellets, I was setting out their food bowls inside their pen when a dead tree was blown down by the wind, inside their pen. All the goats were in the area and scattered but some may have been "nicked" by branches as the tree came to rest. I didn't actually see any get hit directly, but did watch the tree come down and hit the ground. This morning, while feeding the goats their pellets, I noticed that one of this years kids (PB&J, CC's single doeling from this April) had a palm sized "lump" on her flank, aft of her rib cage and down below her spinal area. Here are pictures from this evening:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mike CHS (Sep 5, 2018)

Latebloomerar said:


> I had a little doe that had the same thing this summer I took her to the vet and he lanced it. We cleaned it every evening with and iodine the vet sent home. On the third day a piece of grass came out of the abscess that was really stiff. Can only think the lawn mower got her and she healed up and then created the nasty lump.



I noticed this was your first post and was going to say Welcome but then I saw your joined date.  

Welcome to you anyway.


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## Latestarter (Sep 5, 2018)

Hey there @Latebloomerar  So glad you finally joined a conversation! Welcome!  Thanks for the story of your goat. Glad she healed up OK. I hope my PB&J does as well. She's kinda separated herself from the rest of the herd today. She's the smallest/youngest, so gets picked on quite a bit anyway, and with the wound, I'm sure she's not enjoying it.  When I shaved the area, there was no entry point for a puncture. I checked in great detail. Anyway, glad you're finally here. Feel free to join other threads as you will.


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## Latebloomerar (Sep 6, 2018)

Thanks for the welcome. She also had no detectable entry point. Vet couldn't find it. Thank goodness she is already sold (at a discount), and with a great 4H home. I'm glad I took her to the vet it was a great learning experience for me.


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## Latestarter (Sep 21, 2018)

Been a day or two since I've last reported. Posted a couple pics to my journal but want to put them here as well so folks reading this thread later won't be all wondering what happened.

The two sores eventually merged at the top forming like a horseshoe shape. The skin died and peeled off from both areas, and they have dried, scabbed, and are healing themselves from the outsides in. Since there's been no infection, no maggots/fly strike issues, no fever, no erratic behavior, etc, I have let nature take its course without vet intervention. Here's a couple of pics from earlier today:



 





You can see that the affected area is much smaller now than the original blister was when I drained it. I still have no idea what caused the initial issue. She seems to be doing well.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 21, 2018)

Ya know, several years back I had a goat that got stuck under some building materials.  There was some plywood leaning up against the side of the barn and "somehow" it got knocked over on a wether I was growing out.  It happened after I had fed one evening and I didn't find him until the next day so he was under several pieces of plywood for at least 14 hours.  He ended up with several pressure sores that did the same thing that your goat is doing.  The skin sloughed off in a couple of places but the wounds closed over and the hair grew back and you couldn't even tell anything had happened later.  But, my goat didn't have the swelling that PB&J did beforehand.  Gotta be glad that they have a pretty good ability to heal!


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## Latestarter (Sep 21, 2018)

How big was the exposed area on your wether FEM? This is now about 1/2 the original size it was when it was first "blown up" and filled with blood. The first/major area on the lower left is maybe 2-2.5" across now. It was originally well over 4" when blown up.


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 22, 2018)

He had two areas.  One was on his shoulder and the other on the hip area.  It was where the pressure of the materials laying on him impeded circulation. The spot on his shoulder was the biggest.  At least 4 inches wide and about 6 inches tall...football shaped...the one on his hip only about half that size.   He didn't have a hematoma though. Those two areas were cold to the touch when I found him.  The skin sloughed off and he healed pretty quickly.  Looked a lot like your doe when healing.  The skin filled in, grew hair and he went on to be a nice meal.


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