# Pygmy goat sick?



## MelissaUsi (Dec 11, 2012)

Hi there - I'm not sure if "diseases" is the right place to post this, but it seems to make sense at this point.  I appreciate any help or advice.  

I have a 17-month-old pygmy goat and an 8-month-old Oberhasli/Alpine mix, both females.  They normally don't bleat unless they see me outside or it is feeding time or I get too far ahead when we're walking, etc.  Each has a distinctive bleat also, so I can tell who is talking even if I'm not looking at them.  Early this morning, about 4 a.m., the pygmy goat started bleating.  Since this isn't normal behavior, I went to check on them.  Everything appeared fine - no predators, no bad weather, good rumen sounds, bright-looking, etc.  I attributed her untimely talking to her probably being hungry since they had finished their hay overnight.  She continued randomly bleating until feeding time, about 7:30 a.m., at which time they were fed.  She ate fine and stopped talking while eating.  My husband gets home before I do during the day so he feeds before it gets dark.  She was still randomly bleating he said, but, again, stopped to eat and looked fine.  

I get home after dark and usually just check on everyone even though feeding has been done, etc.  I also let the girls out of their pen so they can follow me around while I do this and so they can just generally play around.  I noticed tonight that the pygmy is sneezing/coughing, something that she doesn't normally do.  Her bleat even sounds deeper and hoarser; it's very strange.  The first thing I thought of was pneumonia and so I pulled out my books to see what I should be looking for.  Her temp is 100.8 and she looks fine.  No runny nose, which apparently according to what I read doesn't happen with pneumonia.  Then I thought maybe bronchitis, but nothing in her environment has changed and I've been feeding the same hay for months, and it isn't dusty or moldy.  I decided to just sit with them for a while and watch.  She is playful and is butting heads with her companion.  She wants treats and followed me around during our evening "walkabout" just like normal.  The only odd thing is that she is sneezing/coughing and bleating.  While I was just sitting with her, she did the normal "do you have any treats" inspection of my hands but then she started "chewing" on my fingers and bleating at the same time.  It was almost like a teething kind of gnawing, not painful, just chewing on my knuckle while continuing to talk.  She has never done this before - ever - and I've had her since she was 6 months old.  She seems to be just acting generally restless and antsy and would gnaw on my finger for a while and then play-butt her companion and then come back to gnaw on my knuckle, etc., all the while making that strange bleat that doesn't sound like her normally.

I'm sorry this is so long.  I'm just confused as to whether she is sick or?  I can without a doubt say that this is NOT normal for her at all.  But, that being said, she isn't showing other signs of illness.  Oh, and she is up-to-date on CDT shots and is wormed monthly, etc.  I'm so confused.

Any ideas?  I'm stumped.  Again, thanks so much for any assistance.

Melissa


----------



## bonbean01 (Dec 11, 2012)

Could she be in heat?

Hope it is not an illness!


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Dec 12, 2012)

if the temp you took is right, that is low and concerning, If that is accurate, she needs antibiotics.  the fact that she is eating is good, If their body temp. drops too low they will go off of feed.  
Honestly if she was here, I would start her on Penn G(procain G) shots twice a day.  But just like people they do get colds and sometimes they fight it off and sometimes they get worse.


----------



## MelissaUsi (Dec 12, 2012)

bonbean01 - Thank you for responding.  I thought of heat; according to what I read, the behavior is certainly consistent.  I'm worried about the sneezing and coughing though; I didn't read that as being a sign (although there is lots more I could read; maybe I just haven't been reading the right things).  I will keep that in mind, though, definitely.  Thanks again.


20kidsonhill - Thank you, too, for responding.  I'll take her temp again this morning.  If it continues to be low, I'll start the penicillin.  Should I also proactively start probios at the same time?  Do you have a good reference for dosage of penicillin for pygmies (or cc per pound, etc.)?  If anything, having started the penicillin can't hurt anything anyway, right?  Thank you so much; I appreciate your time.  I'll keep you posted.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Dec 12, 2012)

Procain G can be given at 1 cc per 20 to 25 lbs every 8 to 12 hours for a goat, although the most I give my adult Boer does even weighing 150lbs or more is around 5 cc.  I do every 8 hours if an  animal is really sick for the first day or two and then every 12 hours, can be given in muscle or sub-q. 
there are stronger antibiotics that are Rx, Baytril and Nuflor are often used. 

probiotics are always a good idea.


----------



## doxiemoxie (Dec 13, 2012)

As 20kids said that temp is too low, but given what else you've said I suspect the thermometer is wrong.  I hate giving antibiotics when the animal has no definitive sign of infection or health problem. such as off food, fever, open wound or mastitis.  The question is whether the sneezing and coughing is a sign of infection.  Goats use a sneezing /coughing sound for a warning alarm.  Have you heard it enough to know if  her noise different than that?  You might also double check for a stray cat, chicken, or other small animal in their pen.  Even a rat or mice will sometimes set a goat off.

What I keep suspecting is that she's pregnant and starting to "nest".  Since she's just with another doe I would suspect heat before being pregnant but it is possible she was bred and now the babies are dropping and she's getting ready to deliver?  

Sometimes the hardest thing to do for our animals is just watch and wait.  I can't say for certain that is what you should be doing, but please give yourself permission to do taht if you are unsure.

And keep us posted.


----------



## redtailgal (Dec 13, 2012)

I am a little confused.....I didnt see anything in the original post about the doe being bred. Am I missing something?

The coughing and sneezing wouldnt worry me too much, so long as the behavior was ok.  You did say that she was acting a little different than normal, so I would watch her very closely for a couple days.  The bleating thing, my goats "talk" more when they dont feel good, so that would encourage me even more to watch her closely.

Bonbean has a good point, though.  Is she due for a heat cycle?  My does will NOT shut up unless there is food in their mouth when they are in a standing heat.  Seriously,  it's non stop.  

As for the temp....  Do you use a digital or a glass thermometer?  If it was glass, make sure it was properly shaken down, and if it's digital, check the battery.  Recheck the temp, using a different thermometer if you can.  My doe, Fern, started with a mild cough that got worse, eventually I started monitoring her temp (I dont do antibiotics unless I absolutely have to).  Her temp dropped to around 100.2 the day before she got really snotty with a full blown pneumonia.  Infections do not always raise the temp, they can cause a DROP in the temp as well.

If she were mine, I'd re-assess that temp pretty quickly.  If her temp were indeed low, I would start her on Nuflor (get it from the vet), repeat the does in 48 hours, and if she is still symptomatic repeat again in another 48 hours (a shot every two days, for a total of three shots, stopping at two if the symptoms relieve).  About a month after the Nuflor treatment, I'd give a dose of injectible ivermec, and repeat that in two weeks, to rule out repeat occurrences of pneumonia due to lung worm. Anytime I have to contact the vet about livestock with possible pneumonia, I go ahead and ask for two doses of Ban-amine (it helps with the inflammation in the bronchial tubes allowing them to get the "gunk" out quicker).  I dont always use that Ban-amine, but I prefer to have it on hand. 

If her temp was within the normal range, I'd do nothing other than make sure she had a warm, dry and draft free place to rest, and provide plenty of clean drinking water.  I'd also monitor that temp for the next week.


----------



## elevan (Dec 13, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> if the temp you took is right, that is low and concerning, If that is accurate, she needs antibiotics.  the fact that she is eating is good, If their body temp. drops too low they will go off of feed.
> Honestly if she was here, I would start her on Penn G(procain G) shots twice a day.  But just like people they do get colds and sometimes they fight it off and sometimes they get worse.


I agree.

What I do when I take a temp is to take it twice to verify...I've had thermometers go wonky and give inaccurate readings.  If your 2 readings are the same or very close then I'd consider accurate...if there is a wide swing between them then get a new thermometer (or change the batteries) and try again.

As bonbean said, they could be in heat or coming into it but the low temp concerns me.


----------



## MelissaUsi (Dec 19, 2012)

Hi everyone,

I wanted to give you all an update on this issue from last week.  First, thanks to each of you for your helpful responses and time.  Every time I think I know something, I find out that I don't even know half of what I think I do   I really appreciate the expertise here.

Anyway, I ended up getting penicillin just in case.  In the meantime, I rechecked the temp several times and also used my other goat as a comparison (gee, what a concept).  The original temp of 100.8 was incorrect although I'm not sure what the deal was with the thermometer (or the user, ha).   Repeated temps were 101.8 and so that was normal.  There are no bucks around my house either - well, aside from the nosy deer that pokes around our property every once while but I didn't even think about him.  

I ended up calling the vet just to run things by her because I'm paranoid apparently.  Like everyone here, she said that it sounded like heat but that she didn't really know what the cough/sneeze thing would be without seeing her.  She suggested that I listen to her lungs that evening and just watch and compare with the other goat.  I did that and everything was the same for both of them.  She was still coughing/sneezing so I decided to just call the vet the next day and just bring her in to be on the safe side.

Needless to say, she improved and didn't cough/sneeze once while at the vet's office.  The vet said she was absolutely "textbook" healthy (although a tiny bit chubby) and that more than likely it was heat.  Her theory on the coughing/sneezing was that she was just getting herself so worked up and antsy that probably her throat was dry and scratchy like a person would get.  Sheesh - I feel like a dummy.  And I thought I understood the birds and the bees...

Anyway, the vet was very gracious; the bill was cheap; I learned a few things; and I didn't say "duh!" too many times.  

Thanks again to everyone for their help.  Hopefully I can be of assistance to someone in the future (as long as the birds and the bees aren't involved...ha ha).

Happy Holidays.


----------



## doxiemoxie (Dec 19, 2012)

Thanks for the update!  I'm glad she is healthy and that you have a good vet.  And that heat thing is more than just "oh she can be bred."   For goats the cycle of hormones makes for interesting behaviors (how understated IS that?)  That goes for bucks and does.  I recently moved to where we have several goat neighbors and every time a does is in heat she comes over to hang out by my buck (who, it seems, I hope, is thoroughly confined, finally)  We get a parade of neighbor girls; I like looking out the window to see who'll be with us for the next several days


----------

