# My pygmy likes chicken pellets more than his goat pellets!?



## daniel-delarosa (Oct 3, 2011)

Should I be worried?  He barely touches his pellets all day.  When I go out to feed the chickens, he comes running right along with them waiting for me to toss out the feed.


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## freemotion (Oct 3, 2011)

Unless he is skinny, he probably shouldn't be getting any grain, especially since he is a boy (urinary calculi is a danger with the boys fed grain without ammonium chloride) and especially not chicken feed.  Can you put him in his stall while you feed the chickens?


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## elevan (Oct 3, 2011)

If he's just getting a taste here and there when you toss it, I wouldn't worry.  BUT, if you're regularly feeding him chicken feed then you need to stop that practice.

My pygmies run up when I toss scratch out for the chickens and they'll nibble up a little.


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## Chaty (Oct 6, 2011)

Chicken feed (layer mash) is Toxic for goats, so I would lock him up when feeding chickens. Scratch grain (Milo, corn) wont hurt too much but layer has Urea in it and goats dont do to good with that.


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 6, 2011)

I would be more worried about all the parasites the goat is eating off the ground by trying to get up the chicken feed.  I would pen him while your chickens eat and then let him go afterwards, I am assuming the chickens eat up the feed in 15 or 20 minutes.


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## RareBreedFancier (Oct 7, 2011)

Over here it's illegal to feed chicken feed to goats and other ruminants here because it contains animal material. That's how things like 'Mad cow disease' get started. 

Your feed may be different but unless it's meat free I would NOT be letting him eat it.


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 7, 2011)

RareBreedFancier said:
			
		

> Over here it's illegal to feed chicken feed to goats and other ruminants here because it contains animal material. That's how things like 'Mad cow disease' get started.
> 
> Your feed may be different but unless it's meat free I would NOT be letting him eat it.


good point, ruminants can not be fed feed with meat products in them. We have to sign contracts every year with our fair for the shows, saying we did not feed our sheep or goats any feeds containing meat products.


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 7, 2011)

Chaty said:
			
		

> Chicken feed (layer mash) is Toxic for goats, so I would lock him up when feeding chickens. Scratch grain (Milo, corn) wont hurt too much but layer has Urea in it and goats dont do to good with that.


Good point to bring up, Goats are sensitive to feeds with Urea in them. So when feeding cattle feeds or chicken feeds you need to make sure they do not contain Urea.


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## Livinwright Farm (Oct 7, 2011)

First, how old is this boy? if under 6 months, then make sure he has constant access to something like Dumor Goat Grower. It is made for feeding to growing show goats, and contains proper amounts of ammonium chloride. My boys are doing very well on it! I even occassionally give some to my little over a year old buck... more like a treat.
If he is over 6 months, then I suggest just getting him good quality hay and something special, like Manna Pro's Calf Manna or Black Oil Sunflower Seed for a small(maybe 1/8-1/4 cup) once per day for while you feed the chickens. You could also feed him peas, peanuts, kidney beans, and various other legumes, as they are high in protein which will help "beef" him up, and he will LOVE them.
Remember, Pygmies don't need a lot of feed, and all goats will gobble up chicken feed if they get the chance, but it isn't good for them at all.... unless you make your own chicken feed using vegetables, kelp meal, alfalfa meal, and various minerals.... but not many in the states do this, so make sure he can't access their feed


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## elevan (Oct 7, 2011)

Legumes may be high in protein but many are also high in Phosphorus...a goat owner must be careful to know the nutritional content of ANY item that is fed to their goats and make sure that their goats are getting a balanced diet.

From Spring to Fall my pygmies get nothing extra - they are on browse only.  In winter I feed hay and small quantities of grain.

When my goats run up for scratch that I throw to the chickens they are trying to catch it in the air or trying to steal the bucket from me...they get a little mad when it hits the ground because they would never touch that    in short order they head back out to the field while the chickens clean it up.

It may be a good idea to confine the goat while the chickens are fed in the OP's case.


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## Goatmasta (Oct 7, 2011)

The biggest concern with a goat eating chicken feed is the Calcium to Phosphorus ratio is off and there is a better chance of boys getting UC.   In does chicken feed will cause acidosis.  By the way does can get UC as well as bucks, most people just don't notice because that they rarely have a blockage like the boys do.  Regardless it is not good for them.

  Eleven - I think you may be a bit confused on the legume thing...  Legumes are higher in protein, and high in calcium, but they have pretty much the same phosphorus levels of most grass hay.  This is why it is ok to feed a buck alfalfa alone (no feed ration) but not ok to feed grass hay alone.  Grass hay will turn the 2:1 C ratio upside down in a hurry, and UC will set in just as fast.


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## elevan (Oct 7, 2011)

I am NOT confused - I am thorough.  The stage of development of the legume plays a large factor in it's nutrients.  Forage planting, whole raw, dried, sprouted (and if so the stage).



			
				Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> If he is over 6 months, then I suggest just getting him good quality hay and something special, like Manna Pro's Calf Manna or Black Oil Sunflower Seed for a small(maybe 1/8-1/4 cup) once per day for while you feed the chickens. You could also feed him peas, peanuts, *kidney beans*, and various other legumes, as they are high in protein which will help "beef" him up, and he will LOVE them.


KIDNEY BEANS were mentioned (they are a LEGUME)

In the information below I will refer to each bean / pea with it's stage listed next to it.


Kidney bean (FRESH BEAN)
Minerals                  1 cup
Calcium                  31.3  mg                          
Phosphorus          68.1  mg                 

That makes the Cah ratio 1:2  of that particular legume and you want to feed 2:1          


I did not say that ALL were off in ratio but there are many that are.  Not all legumes are created equal.  Differences abound depending on whether you feeding the green plant material, the seed (bean), hay, ect.  You'll notice that the Cah ratio for kidney beans is backwards of what you would want it to be.

Keep in mind that not all of our members feed HAY as a sole source of legumes, there are some that feed WHOLE FOODS and PRODUCE.  Do not lump all legumes into the same category or you may create problems for your goats.

eta:  More legumes that are not the proper ratio when fed as produce.


Peanuts - DRIED seed (no hull) (1 cup):
Ca  87.8 mg
Ph  572  mg

Peas FRESH seed (1 cup):
Ca   43.2
Ph   187


In order to add the seed (bean) part of the legume to the diet one must find another course of action to compensate for the calcium that is needed to bring the ratio to the correct proportion.


eta 2:
I have added stage of each legume in my reference as to my knowledge from previous posts that LWF feeds fresh produce.


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## elevan (Oct 7, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

> Eleven - I think you may be a bit confused on the legume thing...  Legumes are higher in protein, and high in calcium, but they have pretty much the same phosphorus levels of most grass hay.  This is why it is ok to feed a buck alfalfa alone (no feed ration) but not ok to feed grass hay alone.  Grass hay will turn the 2:1 C ratio upside down in a hurry, and UC will set in just as fast.


What stage of development and under what circumstances do you refer to for the legumes that you are speaking of? Forage planting, whole raw, dried, sprouted (and if so at what stage).


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## that's*satyrical (Oct 7, 2011)

Is this just as important for does as bucks? Does one need to worry as much about grass hay being fed to the does?


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## elevan (Oct 7, 2011)

UC is more of a concern for bucks / wethers than for does.  But does can get it.


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## Livinwright Farm (Oct 8, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> I am NOT confused - I am thorough.  The stage of development of the legume plays a large factor in it's nutrients.  Forage planting, whole raw, dried, sprouted (and if so the stage).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh! I had no idea about kidneys beans being off in levels... I knew soy beans were not good because of how they ferment too quickly and thus creating high potential for bloat(which is why I didn't list them). Thanks for posting that info Emily!  Also, I did mention giving legumes as a treat, not as their meal.  Peas for my herd are usually alaska peas still in the pod and then once the production of pods is over, the goats get to eat the plants  I have not had a problem with calcium deficiency yet... so, so far, so good


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## elevan (Oct 8, 2011)

Adding pure alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets (another legume) to their diet if you're feeding fresh bean such as noted above would help compensate for the calcium levels being off.



The biggest thing that I'm trying to get across in my post is that goat owners need to be aware of the exact nutritional value of the specific item that they are feeding and make adjustments where needed in nutrition.  Lumping a food into a group (such as saying all legumes are legumes) can be dangerous to the health of your herd.


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