# Best options for vinyl fence for goats



## Green Acres Farm (Sep 6, 2016)

We have a big enclosed pasture with vinyl fencing and want to keep goats in it.

What is the best option for adding additional security to it to keep the goats in and predators out? 

I was originally thinking a strand of hotwire the bottom and first "gap," but I am afraid they will go through it anyways and I doubt it would keep coyotes out. Lining it with fencing would be less economical and I'm not sure how to line it properly, but maybe it is the best option.

Any ideas?


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## Baymule (Sep 6, 2016)

You have very pretty fencing. I don't know how it would hold up to livestock/goats. We used 2"x4"x48" non climb horse wire, but we didn't have any fence at all when we bought this place. I've seen wood and pipe fences lined with wire and it looked good. You would have to inquire how you would attach it to the vinyl fence without damaging it.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 6, 2016)

Baymule said:


> You have very pretty fencing. I don't know how it would hold up to livestock/goats. We used 2"x4"x48" non climb horse wire, but we didn't have any fence at all when we bought this place. I've seen wood and pipe fences lined with wire and it looked good. You would have to inquire how you would attach it to the vinyl fence without damaging it.


We have 9 rolls of that exact fence, but were hoping to maybe save it for another pasture...we'll see...


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## Baymule (Sep 6, 2016)

How far apart are the slats on the fence? You might could get by with goat/sheep wire which has 4" square holes.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 6, 2016)

Baymule said:


> How far apart are the slats on the fence? You might could get by with goat/sheep wire which has 4" square holes.


Dont want to buy more fencing when we already have a lot of 2×4 , plus, baby Nigerian Dwarfs easily get through it...


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## Baymule (Sep 6, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Dont want to buy more fencing when we already have a lot of 2×4 , plus, baby Nigerian Dwarfs easily get through it...



True, which is one of the reasons we went with the 2"x4". I wanted to keep ALL mine IN and EVERYTHING else OUT!


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## chiques chicks (Sep 6, 2016)

I would probably use multiple streams of hot wire on the inside to keep them in. May have to add at least low and high outside to keep things out.  If there is one thing I've found, goats are hard on fences! I doubt vinyl would last long with them rubbing against it.

I have one that has escaped the last two days. The pen has 5 foot fence, no gaps, and a hot wire at 6½ feet. There is also a 4 four hot netting area that is not down. Not sure where she gets out. Maybe jumping the 4 foot.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 6, 2016)

chiques chicks said:


> I would probably use multiple streams of hot wire on the inside to keep them in. May have to add at least low and high outside to keep things out.  If there is one thing I've found, goats are hard on fences! I doubt vinyl would last long with them rubbing against it.
> 
> I have one that has escaped the last two days. The pen has 5 foot fence, no gaps, and a hot wire at 6½ feet. There is also a 4 four hot netting area that is not down. Not sure where she gets out. Maybe jumping the 4 foot.


Definitely not worried about the vinyl holding up- it is extremely sturdy and used as a horse fence, as well as being cemented into the ground.

I would like to do hotwire if it would work, but how would I attach it? I'm sure there's a way... 

Also, unfortunately, our goats do not terribly mind being shocked. I put a buckling in a fence with hotwire for the first time and he walked up sniffed the fence and POP I heard him get shocked! He didn't even jump- he did it again 2 more times... I think he liked it!


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## Latestarter (Sep 6, 2016)

You could do individual strands of single wire or braided wire (hot) between the existing vinyl cross beams/rails by anchoring insulators to the 4x4s through the vinyl covering on them. I don't know, but they may make some sort of "strap on" type insulator that you can wrap around the entire post and tighten down so you don't have to drill holes through it. The problem I foresee is the lowest cross beam/rail is too high off the ground, so you'd need a hot wire beneath it, but the likelihood of shorting the whole thing out with grass and weeds growing into it creates a problem. Of course you could do round up the entire perimeter under the fencing 2-3 times a year to keep it all killed back. Or make sure it's high enough off the ground that you can run a weed whacker under the lower wire to keep the growth down (very labor intensive).

IMHO, If your animals are getting zapped and just standing there, then you either have a short/energy drain someplace, you have an inadequate ground, or your charger is not up to the task at hand. When they touch that fence, they should NOT want to do it a second time!


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## Southern by choice (Sep 6, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> IMHO, If your animals are getting zapped and just standing there, then you either have a short/energy drain someplace, you have an inadequate ground, or your charger is not up to the task at hand. When they touch that fence, they should NOT want to do it a second time!



Absolutely!


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## chiques chicks (Sep 6, 2016)

I would use ceramic insulators on the vertical posts, but replace the nails they come with with screws. Properly installed, the wire should not put a strain on the insulators except at the corners, assuming the posts are in a straight line. Of course this will put holes in the fence. How you attach it depends upon high high the 4x4 extend up in the fence. If they are full length, you could just use your choice of insulator and the nails they come with. Predrill holes in the vinyl to keep it from cracking and put a spot of silicone over it to prevent moisture getting in if desired. I recommend the low wire be at 6 inches. Just my choice.

And round up.

I agree about the charger. If I have a short and drop below 4000 volts or so, mine aren't really affected.


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## babsbag (Sep 7, 2016)

x3 on the charger. My goats and dogs will NOT touch that fence more than once...me either.

I would not fasten hot wire to the vinyl. I would get those step in fiberglass posts and use those for the hot wire. Put them right next to the vinyl fence and run one strand for every opening and one at the bottom and one at the top, above the fence. I think the vinyl fence would be very easy to climb.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 7, 2016)

I'm thinking the best option is to put t-posts lined up with the vinyl posts with several different heights of hotwire...and make sure the charger is working right. That way the vinyl fence won't have lost value.


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## greybeard (Sep 8, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> the likelihood of shorting the whole thing out with grass and weeds growing into it creates a problem. Of course you could do round up the entire perimeter under the fencing 2-3 times a year to keep it all killed back.



Or, use a roundup+a residual herbicide for all year/all vegetation control. I've had very good luck with the following product, tho there are others similar to it that work just as well.
http://www.ruralking.com/media/blfa...ong_Vegetation_Killer_Concentrate_8131072.pdf

The basics:



 
Another similar product:
http://raganandmassey.parado.cz/app/uploads/2016/01/35935-94-84009_2_5gal.pdf

Both are sold at TSC here. Be very careful--it means what it says: BARE ground for a whole year--and only the most persistent seed will germinate in that area. Spray a neat & uniform width to make it look good under your fence, tho I often spray beyond under my fence to discourage animals from trying to stick their heads under the bottom and reaching the green stuff on the other side of the fence if I have that option.


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 8, 2016)

greybeard said:


> Or, use a roundup+a residual herbicide for all year/all vegetation control. I've had very good luck with the following product, tho there are others similar to it that work just as well.
> http://www.ruralking.com/media/blfa...ong_Vegetation_Killer_Concentrate_8131072.pdf
> 
> The basics:
> ...


I'm very worried about using pesticides and the goats getting into it. Goats like to do exactly what you don't want them to do... Are there any other options? What about an edger?


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## Latestarter (Sep 8, 2016)

My guess is that you'd do this and wait for the full kill before putting animals in where they could eat the poisoned grasses. Once they're dead and gone and it's bare dirt, there shouldn't be anything there for the animals to ingest... Am I thinking wrong here?


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## NH homesteader (Sep 8, 2016)

You guys are killing me with the Round Up! Ahhhhh

OK I'll keep it to myself.


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## greybeard (Sep 8, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> I'm very worried about using pesticides and the goats getting into it. Goats like to do exactly what you don't want them to do... Are there any other options? What about an edger?


Sure, you can edge, probably at the same frequency you do your lawn. 
I don't see why you would want to use pesticides to control grass tho.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 8, 2016)

greybeard said:


> Or, use a roundup+a residual herbicide for all year/all vegetation control. I've had very good luck with the following product, tho there are others similar to it that work just as well.
> http://www.ruralking.com/media/blfa...ong_Vegetation_Killer_Concentrate_8131072.pdf
> 
> The basics:
> ...



That's what I need.
I cut the grass along the fence lines tight with my push mower as low as I could get it and sprayed with round up.  But, so much rain I couldn't keep up with it with additional spraying required.


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## greybeard (Sep 8, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> My guess is that you'd do this and wait for the full kill before putting animals in where they could eat the poisoned grasses. Once they're dead and gone and it's bare dirt, there shouldn't be anything there for the animals to ingest... Am I thinking wrong here?



You would follow, the withdrawal instructions.


Latestarter said:


> My guess is that you'd do this and wait for the full kill before putting animals in where they could eat the poisoned grasses. Once they're dead and gone and it's bare dirt, there shouldn't be anything there for the animals to ingest... Am I thinking wrong here?


Per Texas A&M University:
For anything with Dicamba in it:
_Remove meat animals from treated areas ( 30 days prior to slaughter. Do not harvest for hay before 37 days after treatment. *No waiting period between treatment and grazing for non-lactating animals. Wait 7 days prior to grazing treated area with lactating animals*._

Anything with Roundup:
_*Remove domestic livestock before application and wait 14 days after application before grazing livestock or harvesting.*_


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## Baymule (Sep 8, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> You guys are killing me with the Round Up! Ahhhhh
> 
> OK I'll keep it to myself.


I don't use it either.


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## babsbag (Sep 9, 2016)

I use it on fence lines and on poison oak, star thistle, marestail, dallas grass, foxtails outside of the dog run, sedge, Purslane, and other thistles. I am selective with my spraying as I don't want to kill plants that the bees like other than star thistle growing on my land, I draw the line at that.  Since we have no summer rain here it usually only takes once or twice a year to control the pest weeds and runoff isn't an issue as there is no rain and the water table is about 300'. I feel pretty safe with the stuff.


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## chiques chicks (Sep 9, 2016)

While I don't like to use chemicals in general, I do make an exception for roundup. I try to only use it for non-native invasive, primarily mile- a -minute and Japanese hops. On occasion I will hit poke weed and poison ivy if it is nearby and not in a grazing area or an area I plan to graze in the next month or. I also try to avoid areas likely to drain rapidly into any waterways.

My neighbor is a PhD organic chemist not affiliated with any chemical companies (a professor). She and her husband also use little or no chemicals. She said me from an organic chemistry standpoint, it degrades rapidly into inner substances upon ground contact.

My other neighbor has a small chemical free orchard and produce business. Unfortunately a third neighbor is a large operating farm who likes to clear-cut land (including encroaching on neighboring properties with his brush) and use chemicals heavily. We don't fight him, but don't appreciate it.


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## greybeard (Sep 10, 2016)

> She said me from an organic chemistry standpoint, it degrades rapidly into inner substances upon ground contact.


Are you saying it goes in to the soil or degrades into non-harmful substances?


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## chiques chicks (Sep 10, 2016)

When it reaches the soil, it breaks down rapidly into harmless substances, is my understanding. I personally will not allow grazing/browsing in treated areas for a month, not will I use it near produce near time for consumption. I will occasionally use it to prepare planting beds a few weeks in advance. 

I do my best to prevent things from my property finding their way into the stream that creates one border. I'm not a huge fan of roundup products, but used with care, do use some. I don't use any long acting versions.


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