# *still* Sick baby



## Horsefly (Jan 12, 2011)

We had a doe have triplets Dec 10, 2 boys and a girl.  The girl just hadn't been as bouncy or big as the boys but we just figured she was smaller because she was a girl. I started noticing a few weeks ago that she always had her tail tucked while the others were up and she was very clingy to mom.  Mom doesn't let the kids drink to much other than a quick sip here or there so I think she may have been getting pushed off and not getting enough when they all tried drinking.  We didn't give her any special attention until last Friday when I though she was about to die.  She was laying down alot and would kind of topple and teeter when she would walk.  I immediately started watching her closely and gave her some nutridrench stuff and a b complex shot as well as put mom in the milk stand and let her drink, she was pretty hungry.  I took her temp that day and it was 104, it seemed high to me so I took her brothers who is fine and it was 103, the outside tempature was in the 60s that day so it wasn't really cold outside.  I also took her pulse and it was 23 beats for 10 seconds so whatever that works to, her brothers was 25.  She is doing better now with me putting her mom on the milk stand 2x a day and letting her drink and giving her electrolytes and or nutridrench stuff every day or two.  I made her a minihorse blanket out of a few old tshirts and batting that is really warm for her at night.  During the day when it is alittle warmer I put a summer type dog shirt on her.  I got her to take some milk out of a bottle 2 days ago and yesterday and today and today she looks scoury, possibly from the strange milk or more milk than she is used to?  She also looks pot bellyish.  So I'm thinking she must have coccidia?  I have dimethox powder from Jeffers on hand but don't know  what dosage is for it.  Here is the link to what I have- http://www.jefferslivestock.com/product.asp?camid=LIV&pn=A2-DA she is alot better than when I first started treating her but she is still a bit trembley on her back legs and isnt running with the other babies.  Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 13, 2011)

Sounds like coccidia!  I would get a fecal done..and start treating her.  But I would definately get a fecal done and treat all if it is.

Im not sure on the dosage at the moment..running out to work! Sorry...its posted in alot of places!

Good luck..


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## Roll farms (Jan 13, 2011)

I mix the dimethox powder w/ 1.5 c water, shake well (I use a pop bottle) to dissolve, and then dose at 1cc per 10# day 1, 1cc per 20# days 2-7 to TREAT.  For prevention, I give it for 5 days, then off 21 days, treat for 5 days, off 21, etc.

Fiasco recommends mixing w/ 3c water and then dosing at 1cc per 5# on day 1, 1cc per 10# days 2-7.

I basically cut the amount of water in half, so that the dosage amts. are lower.

Definitely get a fecal ran to verify, but treatment sounds in order.  Might not hurt to give the boys a prevention round if their fecals indicate.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 13, 2011)

If she will drink it, put a little baking soda in the next bottle, never been sure on the exact amount, I would give her 1 teaspoon, mixed into the amount of milk you have had luck getting her to drink in one bottle feeding.

I agree with the cocci diagnosis, since we don't milk, we treat our moms when the kids are 2 weeks of age in their drinking water for 7 days with Corid at the rate of 1 1/2 ounces per gallon of drinking water.  Coccidiosis is known as the silent killer of kids.  

I would also consider giving her a Penn G shot at the rate of 1 cc (maybe 2 if she is closer to 15 or 20 lbs) twice a day for 3 days. 

You could also give her pepto bismo around 1 ounce or livestock grade pepto-bismo called Kaopectin a couple times a day, until the scours stop.


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## helmstead (Jan 13, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> If she will drink it, put a little baking soda in the next bottle, never been sure on the exact amount, I would give her 1 teaspoon, mixed into the amount of milk you have had luck getting her to drink in one bottle feeding.
> 
> I agree with the cocci diagnosis, since we don't milk, we treat our moms when the kids are 2 weeks of age in their drinking water for 7 days with Corid at the rate of 1 1/2 ounces per gallon of drinking water.  Coccidiosis is known as the silent killer of kids.
> 
> ...


Gotta chime in.

That dose of CoRid is basically pouring water down a duck's back.  The CoRid dose for cocci treatment or prevention is 2.5 cc per 10 lbs, UNDILUTED.  It should not be used diluted. (yes, I'm aware this is off label)

PenG should never be used for less than a full course of 7 days.  

And never, EVER give 'the pink stuff' without treating the CAUSE of the scouring!  I don't ever use the pink stuff anymore, I'd rather some scouring than constipation.  The reason is, the goat is scouring to get RID of something...clog it up, and you can kill it even faster.


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## helmstead (Jan 13, 2011)

Now, for OP - I would get this baby some BoSe (1/4 cc if it's a mini, 1/2 cc if it's a full sized baby) in addition to cocci treatment as Roll outlined.  3 weeks of age is when I do cocci prevention on my kids...so I'd do all three as she suggested.  The baking soda is also a good idea, but I wouldn't mix it in the bottle, I'd drench it or make baking soda balls...


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## lilhill (Jan 13, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Now, for OP - I would get this baby some BoSe (1/4 cc if it's a mini, 1/2 cc if it's a full sized baby) in addition to cocci treatment as Roll outlined.  3 weeks of age is when I do cocci prevention on my kids...so I'd do all three as she suggested.  The baking soda is also a good idea, but I wouldn't mix it in the bottle, I'd drench it or make baking soda balls...




If I need to do Penicillin, it's 7 to 10 day treatments x a day, always.


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## Horsefly (Jan 13, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I mix the dimethox powder w/ 1.5 c water, shake well (I use a pop bottle) to dissolve, and then dose at 1cc per 10# day 1, 1cc per 20# days 2-7 to TREAT.  For prevention, I give it for 5 days, then off 21 days, treat for 5 days, off 21, etc.
> 
> Fiasco recommends mixing w/ 3c water and then dosing at 1cc per 5# on day 1, 1cc per 10# days 2-7.
> 
> ...


Thanks everyone for you help, I'll see about getting a fecal and start to treat for coccidias.  
Roll do you mix all the powder with 1 1/2 cup of water?  Did I read that right?  I'm confused seems like alot of powder.


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## Roll farms (Jan 13, 2011)

Yup, the whole bag.  It makes the mix stronger so you don't have to use as much drench, since it tastes bad.

Put in human terms...I'd rather swallow 2 tsp of ucky stuff than 4 tsp of ucky stuff....see what I mean?


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 13, 2011)

I hope they are doing better soon!  

Please update!!!


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## Horsefly (Jan 13, 2011)

I am treating the two boys also prevenitively.  Lucy seems to be perking up some, she isn't bouncy but isn't so lethargic anymore.  She is to adorable in her jacket too .  I hope the Dimethox takes care of anything and we happy healthy little kids again soon.  Should I repeat doseing her in 21 days like I would if I was prevenitive treating?  When do you stop the cycle?  Mom is putting on some weigh with the extra grain she is getting while in the stand 2x a day.  Not a bad thing yet because she was getting alittle thin with them nursing.


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## Roll farms (Jan 13, 2011)

I've seen them make amazing comebacks after a day or two on DM.

I would treat her again for 2 or 3 cycles at least....let her body have time to build immunity.  If you can start them, and mom if you're not drinking her milk, on medicated feed (with deccox or rumensin) that would be good, too.  Kids can't eat enough when they're real little to get the meds at therapuetic levels, but it's a start toward it while you're still treating / preventing.

Here in IN it gets cold enough to freeze off cocci so that I don't have to treat year round.  If I were in a warmer climate like you are, I would treat every 21 days until they're at least 6 mos. old, and keep them on medicated feed until they're 'grown up'.

A good, cocci-free start is SO important for their future development.


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## Horsefly (Jan 15, 2011)

Well she is being a bit perkier but still not bouncing with the boys yet.  She had the nastiest poop runs right now too.  I'm hoping that clears up soon.  It is blackish and all over her tail, back legs, and rear.  I don't want to take her in and give her a bath and clean her up yet until I know she isn't just going to get gross again, I might anyway tonight or tomorrow.  Anything else I could be doing for her or do you think I have the wrong diagnosis?


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## jodief100 (Jan 15, 2011)

I recommend adding some electrolytes to what you are giving her.  The runs can cause dehydration and and loss of nutrients.  I drench the goats with it.
Good Luck, but it sounds like cocci to me.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 15, 2011)

I agree with Jodief...get her some hydration for sure. I would also give her a vitimin B shot...and some probios.  Make sure she is eating and drinking PLENTY!!! 

Glad shes up though!!   

Absolutley crucial so you dont reinfect her...dont allow her to eat any hay etc off ground...everything must be up!  

Clean her living space, muck and new bedding as much as you can.  Always best for kids with coccidia.  

Good luck with her!!!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 16, 2011)

How is she doing???  Any improvement with her???


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## Horsefly (Jan 16, 2011)

She is doing great today.  The runs dried up and she was out eating alot of grass and stuff today.  We are planning on giving the stalls a complete clean out tomorrow.


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## Horsefly (Jan 20, 2011)

Lucy had been doing good, she was more active, and we did the last dose of DiMethox last night.  Tonight when I put them all up in their stalls she had a really big belly on her and she wasn't quite as alert as usual.  Think something else may be wrong with her?  I checked her eyelids and they were lightish pink, could she have worms?  What could I give her for them?  Also what are signs of bloat and what do you do for it, I don't think she has it but I have heard it can kill them pretty fast so I just want to make sure.  He stomach was quite round looking compared to her brothers and it was firmish as was her brothers.


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## helmstead (Jan 20, 2011)

She's either bloated or acidosis...I'd treat for both with baking soda, oil and a good warm soapy enema.  I'd also give a dose of C&D antitoxin PO preventative.  Withhold food til she looks better.


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## Horsefly (Jan 20, 2011)

I can't really withold food because she is wih mom but will get her some oil and baking soda right now.  What is C&D antitoxin PO preventative?  Thanks


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## helmstead (Jan 20, 2011)

C&D antitoxin is a treatment for entero.  PO means orally.


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## Oat Bucket Farm (Jan 21, 2011)

We had a young doeling come to us with a heavy load of cocci. We gave her Corid at 6.25cc per 25 pounds for 5 days which is our standard prevention dose starting at 21 days for goats born here. She did great while on it but within a day or so of being off it she would start having problems again.We have always had a good prevention program and so hadn't dealt with needing to treat it So I went to a very knowledgeable goat lady for her advice which I followed to the letter. This was her advice:

Di-Methox injectable 40%[Sulfadimethoxine] GIVEN ORALLY

The dose is 1cc/5# for 5 days as a treatment dose, then 1cc per 10 pounds for 21 days afterward.

Then 21 days after the above is done with, you give a prevention dose which is,

1cc per 5# for day one
1cc per 10# for days 2, 3, 4 and 5 for a preventative dose.

She had no further problems with cocci.


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## Horsefly (Jan 27, 2011)

Lucy is still not right.  Her middle feels more soft and squishy than the boys and she is so small still.  I've only been letting her nurse mom in the mornings because she is all fat and bloated up looking at night.  I can only figure is she eats alot like a full grown goat and digest it at night because she is skinny in the morning?  I think she must have worms because the skin under her tail is pale pale pink and so is her nose and in her mouth.  Can I give her ivomec?  If so how much she only weighs maybe 10lbs and will be 2 months old on feb 10.  I'm goin to give her another B shot this evening and will let her nurse.


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## Our7Wonders (Jan 27, 2011)

I don't have any advice, but wanted to help you get this back to the top so that people can see it.  You might even try editing the original thread title and adding the word AGAIN, or UPDATE, or something along those lines to help get some new attention.

I sure hope she turns around for you.


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## helmstead (Jan 27, 2011)

What treatments have you done?

I deworm my kids with ivermec monthly beginning at 4 weeks of age, so if she hasn't been dewormed, yes, she should be.


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## Horsefly (Jan 27, 2011)

When I first noticed her off started to give a Bcomplex shot almost every week and still am.  She also got some nutridrench stuff every few days until a couple weeks ago.  I have treated her with DiMethox for 7 days for coccidia and that helped her out.  I also gave her some baking soda oil mixture the first day I noticed her bloated up looking at night but stopped as she seems to be that way every night.  she has had her CDT shot and is going to get a booster in the next week or so.  I have also dusted her and the other goats for lice a couple times, can't seem to totally get rid of the pesky things. 
She eats alot of grass and stuff when she gets let out in the morning and it seems that's all she does.  The boys will run and play with each other but she just eats or sleeps.  Could the coccidia damaged her intestines too much so she can't adsorb the nutrients from the food very well?  Is this fixable? 
I didn't know when they were old enough to be wormed but I guess I will do that tomorrow now that I know.  Is it the same dosage for kids as adult goats?


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 28, 2011)

Intestinal damage is possible.  But???  It would have to be a pretty large load in her for a bit I would think???  JMO  

She has injested alot of medications and oils etc...have you given her any probios to jump that rumen???  You can also take some cud from her Mom (not an easy task) and give it to her to make sure her rumen is growing good.  

Another issue maybe that coccidia is still present.  I would get a fecal done to make sure its all gone for sure!!!  You must clean out stahl/barn often when they have this.  They poop it out and if the stahl is not cleaned out good they can recontaminate themselves with it.   Just a thought.  Call your vet...they probally will let you just bring the sample in..mine does...it cost me $10.00.  And well worth it!! 

Good luck!! I hope she does better for you!! I know this has not been easy on you...


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## Horsefly (Jan 28, 2011)

I would love to have a fecal done and know for sure what's going on but we have no goat vets around us.  I asked our vet who does our dogs if they could do a fecal but the receptionist lady was mean and just said we don't do goats.  I have all the stuff to do it myself so I may try that again, that is if I can catch her pooping. 
Do you know what dose of ivomec would be for her?
I'll get some probios in her today, I hadn't thought of that before.


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## babsbag (Jan 28, 2011)

I would try a different vet. ANY vet can do this, if they will. It makes me so thankful that I have a vet that is a "goat person", but even without her there are a bunch of vets near me that would run a fecal for me. Unbelievable.

I hope she turns around for you.


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## ksalvagno (Jan 28, 2011)

Ivomec 1% injectible dosage is 1cc per 25 lbs by mouth.


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