# How to decide to move?



## promiseacres (Mar 4, 2014)

Ok, first off I am pretty bad about looking to "greener" pastures and I know that a bird in the hand is usually worth two in the bush...

BUT when we moved to our property 3 1/2 years ago we knew it was a stepping stone.  We currently own 4 acres of lush green grass, 2 1/2 are fenced with several small shelters. It tends to be "wet" at times but overall is a decent productive piece of property with our gardening and sheep/mini horses.  The big thing we both dislike is it's a modelur and a cheap one, it needs a new roof, new windows and cosmetic stuff. It does not have a basement and can't have due to the wetness of the ground so no storm shelter. It does have two garages, which currently are full of my DH's tractors. Our hay equipment is stored outside. We have pretty decent neighbors, one family that will do our chores (priceless! ) and cuts wood with DH.

There is another property that's been for sale for awhile that's not far, definatly a comparable drive for my DH to go to work and when my DS goes to school. It has a LARGE beautiful barn with a loft, a small pole barn and a LARGE pole barn. It's mostly fenced (I'm not sure how well but is fenced) It's 8.9 acres but looks to be very sandy soil, and probably 1/2 the acres are wooded, and part is across the street as river front. It's up on a hill and does have a dry basement. It's house is comparable size to ours but is listed as a fixer upper.... but it's stick built and 100 years old (in my book that wins over a modelur with an expiration date IF it's livable) We really enjoy canoing and outside stuff so being on the river would be very neat to us.

If we could make a small profit on our property we could definatly buy this other one. The major flaws with our current property is no barn and at this time no $ to build one and no storm shelter. DH is very conservative with change but I'd love to take a look at this place but at same time if it's an impossibilty don't want to b/c of the disappointment. Of course this is part of my longing for spring as we've had a particulary bad long winter as many have had. I made a plus/minus list and the properties pretty much stack up next to each almost evenly....  so what would you do? Consider moving? Or just wait til you can improve your current property (though you know eventually you will want to move due to small acres) ?


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

A 100 year old house will cost you to renovate. Does it pass for a use and occupancy permit already? There are many things to consider. Some 100 year old homes were very well built and worth the renovation. Some are not.

Electric upgrades are critical.
Plumbing upgrades.
Lead paint - remediation ( you have small children so this is important)
Foundation?

Do you have it within your budget to purchase and renovate?
If you are in a place where things are tight then this is probably not a great idea. If you are able to easily put away money every month than you would have the financial resources to renovate.

Edited to add- is it insurable? This is iffy with old homes. I would check into that also.


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## promiseacres (Mar 4, 2014)

they are living there now but having lived in a 100 year old house prior while remodeling I know that you can live in a house that is questionable (I miss that old house). I sent a email to our RE agent as her DH has it listed. see if it's worth viewing and also see if we could think of getting ours sold.

oh and I Always forget about lead paint! that's a good point


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Mar 4, 2014)

x2 - If it really is a fixer upper, you may want to stay where you're at for now.  Extensive renovations of an older home may take away all the funds you wanted to have go towards building up the rest of your farm.  I'd look at all sides before making the change.


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## Womwotai (Mar 4, 2014)

You've been given good advice so far.  Keep in mind that buying/selling real estate is EXPENSIVE.  By the time you pay the realty fees as a seller, plus all the other expenses that are included in closing PLUS pay the expenses as a buyer - home inspections, well water inspections, termite (if applicable) inspection, and the big one: refinancing costs - it can easily cost several thousand dollars out of pocket just to close the deal.  Then there are expenses with getting utility bills moved over, (deposits) and so on, not to mention that entering a contract to buy one property does not mean you will sell the existing one in a timely manner, and you might be in the position of having to pay for both for the "gap" period.

Older homes can be lovely.  They have charm that the newer homes do not always have.  They also (usually) have limited storage/closet space, limited counter space in the kitchen, far fewer electrical outlets than our modern day society demands, and the plumbing can be lacking.  You said it is already listed as a "fixer upper" so I'm guessing most, if not all, of these conditions exist.

You said in your original post that you currently have no money to build a barn, but I'm looking at a move as costing potentially MORE than building a barn, so that is something to consider as well.  Would adding a barn to your current property increase its value enough to be worth the expense?

I understand wanting more land, but you might be better staying where you are and saving for a few more years than getting into a situation where the "fixing upping" costs more than the barn you need now.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 4, 2014)

Probably one of the most important things to do is take a real good look at what your cash flow is and how much you will need to make that dream remain a dream and not a nightmare.  I have renovated homes in the past and am currently at the 90% point in what will hopefully be my retirement farm. I have always did a really detailed cost estimate before starting and found each time except for now that my estimate didn't reach the half way point. Our current renovation has stayed at what we estimated until we took a close look at what we thought was a minor repair on the roof and it became a total replacement job.  If we didn't comfortably have the resources to do a pay as we go we wouldn't even had considered it.


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## hilarie (Mar 4, 2014)

This is such a tough call.  As a former military kid (11 schools in 11 years, moved 8 times in adulthood, and bought/sold 6 properties before landing in my forever home), I think I'm qualified to address change.  Everyone has made really good points, mostly against moving, and in the current economy I can't blame them - I'm awfully glad I don't have to sell my 170 year old home/property right now, given the soft market AND the fact that 170 year old houses are money pits.  And there's no arguing that a house that needs a new roof, new windows, and has cosmetic issues may be tough to move for a profit.  I too am a " +/- " list maker and the list of negatives on moving in this situation are pretty compelling.
Still.  I'm gonna say it.  How I came to land in my forever home is much too long to go into here, but suffice to say a LOT of planets had to align, money and people had to be in exactly the right place, and plain old Lady Luck had her hand in, too.  It's been a real challenge at times, but I have always known my heart was here, and my ashes will be scattered here.  Look inside (yourself, not the house): is this the forever home? Will you be lying on your deathbed someday staring at the ceiling, saying WHY didn't I GO for it? or will it be, thank God I stayed put?  (Hint: the voices may be louder when spring comes and the whistling of the wind in those crummy windows doesn't drown them out)


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

After Hilarie made her post I thought uh oh... I really didn't mean to sound negative at all and hopefully it did not come across that way. First, I am a pray-er, I believe the Lord will direct our paths and will give us the desires of our hearts. Obedience, faith, and trusting whether there is a yes, a no, or silence is my belief.
Having said that I also believe that stewardship is critically important and being wise with those provisons are key. We know the Word tells us to invest, use wisely what the Lord has given us. 

Looking at the whole picture and putting it before the Lord and waiting for an answer or direction or that "knowing" is my way but may not be the worlds way or the way of most. I tend to see things from "how am I doing with what I have?"


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## hilarie (Mar 4, 2014)

Southern, that makes complete sense to me, and I didn't get the feeling at all that your points were overly negative.  They were_ realistic_ and you have to live in the real world, and deal with that real house.  (My sister, who lives right next door in a 1799 house, emptied the bathwater from her first tub bath in her new/old house - directly into the basement.  You don't want to know what happened next.) 
I guess where I was going was that I believe in the mystery: that if we're paying attention, the thing that is for the highest good will be revealed.  Prayer is a very real way of getting there.  So is meditation, and sitting and listening for the voices in your heart (not the ones telling you about messages from outer space, mind you  )


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## greybeard (Mar 4, 2014)

4 acres to 9 acres IMO, is not worth going into any debt. 4 for 40 maybe. 
I too live with a river as my property line. Sometimes, I walk across the pastures and go down to see the river. 
Sometimes, the river crosses the pastures and comes up to see me. Think about that, and research the history of that waterway. Will you find that you will be in a flood zone and be required to buy federal flood insurance because of a property loan? 

How much more in property taxes will you be paying?
How much more will your homeowners insurance be?
Will you be able to get affordable fire and other loss insurance on all the barns?
Is there a fire main (fire hydrant) close to this new place? (that will affect your home insurance rates) 
How far is it from the nearest fire station? (same as above)


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## Baymule (Mar 4, 2014)

Ya'll are describing houses I have lived in.......how did you know?  If it was old, worn out, bad shape and leaking roof, I lived there. Ya'll have brought up some very worthwhile things to ponder on. That said, sometimes you just have to go for it. Only you can answer that.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 4, 2014)

Poor promise acres... now we have totally confused her.


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## promiseacres (Mar 5, 2014)

greybeard said:


> 4 acres to 9 acres IMO, is not worth going into any debt. 4 for 40 maybe.
> I too live with a river as my property line. Sometimes, I walk across the pastures and go down to see the river.
> Sometimes, the river crosses the pastures and comes up to see me. Think about that, and research the history of that waterway. Will you find that you will be in a flood zone and be required to buy federal flood insurance because of a property loan?
> _this is good point though it's high above the river I know it can play a part_
> ...


 
_And no I"m not totally confused, many points to consider. This would be more of lateral move and from my research if we could possibly get a lower interest rate meaning a lower monthly payment.... Yes 40 acres would be heaven but here with land at a premium for farming I doubt that would happen unless we win the lottery which since we don't play isn't going to happen. I can see us staying at a place like this forever... that's not going to happen where we are now. Not after sitting in my living room waiting frozen b/c there's no place to go and a tornado is on it's way.... it hit 4-5 miles north of us...  am looking forward to hearing from my agent she promised to email me this morning about it. Luckily she's very forthright and has critters so I feel like she's a kinderd spirit.  Thanks for the input, I do appreciate it all. I'll let you know if we decide to go check it out. _


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## Baymule (Mar 5, 2014)

Sometimes you just have to take the risk. I have a certain amount of risk taker in me and it sure makes life a lot more interesting. I have a tendency to jump in the deep end and learn how to swim!


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## hilarie (Mar 5, 2014)

greybeard said:


> 4 acres to 9 acres IMO, is not worth going into any debt. 4 for 40 maybe.
> I too live with a river as my property line. Sometimes, I walk across the pastures and go down to see the river.
> Sometimes, the river crosses the pastures and comes up to see me. Think about that, and research the history of that waterway. Will you find that you will be in a flood zone and be required to buy federal flood insurance because of a property loan?
> 
> ...


All very good points, greybeard.  These are all the nooks and crannies that don't come up right away when you first fall in love with a place/idea.  Like after that first flush of love passes and you discover your beloved snores like a chainsaw   It sounds like you might have personal experience with property loss - fire, maybe?  This summer I'm realizing a personal goal of having lightning rods on EVERY structure in my stewardship.  I'm terrified of losing property by fire, not because I'm underinsured or there's no source of water, but because if my barn burns down, there is NOWHERE I can get 12" square chestnut beams anymore.  A boat builder, darling of sea captains, built my barn and they don't make 'em like that anymore.


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## Baymule (Mar 5, 2014)

@hilarie I most definitely have barn envy.  You could at least post pictures. Maybe ya'll that live in these old houses and have old barns that most of us will never have the experience to savor, maybe, just maybe ya'll could start a thread of old barns and houses. Just for the rest of us to drool over.....


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## norseofcourse (Mar 5, 2014)

Greybeard's post reminded me of a few things.

Since some of the property is adjacent to a river, check to see if it's been designated as 'riparian', and if so, how far from the river that zone extends.  Often there are building restrictions within a riparian area.  And in some places, animal pastures aren't allowed within a certain number of feet from a waterway.

If the area near the river isn't zoned riparian, you'll still want to be aware if you move, in case they designate it (or try to) in the future.  Make sure you keep the areas near the river clean and well-maintained, to help lessen any chance of someone even thinking about restricting animals near it.

Also check to see what rights-of-ways and easements are on or near the property.

Personally I'd be interested enough to at least check it out - good luck!


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## hilarie (Mar 5, 2014)

@Baymule - hmmm....old houses and barns.....new thread...I like it. Will have to dig out some of them and do that.  In the meantime, this:


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## promiseacres (Mar 6, 2014)

disappointed but relieved... the owners told the agents to only show the house if necessary and they themselves said it needs gutted or torn down? so it's out of question. But she did say houses similarl to ours are selling and definatly for more than what we paid for it. Not a ton but some so that's good to know.


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## hilarie (Mar 6, 2014)

Stay tuned, then.  All will be revealed


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## Baymule (Mar 6, 2014)

Well, there's the answer to that one. Next!!


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## greybeard (Mar 9, 2014)

hilarie said:


> All very good points, greybeard.  These are all the nooks and crannies that don't come up right away when you first fall in love with a place/idea.  Like after that first flush of love passes and you discover your beloved snores like a chainsaw   It sounds like you might have personal experience with property loss - fire, maybe?  This summer I'm realizing a personal goal of having lightning rods on EVERY structure in my stewardship.  I'm terrified of losing property by fire, not because I'm underinsured or there's no source of water, but because if my barn burns down, there is NOWHERE I can get 12" square chestnut beams anymore.  A boat builder, darling of sea captains, built my barn and they don't make 'em like that anymore.


No, I have not suffered a loss (yet--knock on wood) but have gone thru the same song and dance each time I have tried to find good home and farm insurance.  Lots of hoops to jump thru if you live in a rural area. 
For instance--most insurers look down on VFDs as opposed to a munincipal fire dept with fire hydrants nearby your home. If the volunteer fire dept is the closest "fire station" it's a negative.
If it's more than just a couple miles away, it's a negative. If there is not a source of pressurized 2' or bigger water main nearby, it's a negative, and a home water well is not accepted, as most home wells will be without power once a fire hits the dist panel in your house. Outbuildings, like shops, cattle sheds, barns etc, have their own policies unless they are permanantly connected with utilities to your home (in my case anyway.)


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## hilarie (Mar 12, 2014)

greybeard said:


> No, I have not suffered a loss (yet--knock on wood) but have gone thru the same song and dance each time I have tried to find good home and farm insurance.  Lots of hoops to jump thru if you live in a rural area.
> For instance--most insurers look down on VFDs as opposed to a munincipal fire dept with fire hydrants nearby your home. If the volunteer fire dept is the closest "fire station" it's a negative.
> If it's more than just a couple miles away, it's a negative. If there is not a source of pressurized 2' or bigger water main nearby, it's a negative, and a home water well is not accepted, as most home wells will be without power once a fire hits the dist panel in your house. Outbuildings, like shops, cattle sheds, barns etc, have their own policies unless they are permanantly connected with utilities to your home (in my case anyway.)


Wow...you have been through it.  We not only treasure our "off the grid" status, my husband is rabid (not too strong a word) about self sufficiency.  We do have city water, but our 170 year old house has a 30' stone lined hand dug well that always even in the dryest year has a minimum of 8-10' of water in it,  In it is a pump that is connected to the main utilities - ah, but it doesn't end there!  Some years ago he bought a Lister-Petter generator made in England, the kind that run water wells or oil wells in 3rd world countries 24 hours a day for years.  We can use diesel in it, or waste veggie oil.  It'll run everything I need to have running.  There are advantages to being married to a Libertarian


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