# Feeding Corn



## FarmerBoy24 (Jan 31, 2011)

Hey,

My goats and chickens share the same barn and the momma goat and 3 babies constantly eat the chickens food. I haven't been giving them too much grain, the mom seems not to like it. Could I feed them Corn instead of the goat oats? (grain) will it hurt them? 

Thanks


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## ksalvagno (Jan 31, 2011)

If the goats eat too much chicken feed, they can get acidosis which can kill them. If you can find a way to keep them from eating the chicken feed, that would be good. A small amount of corn is ok but not as a main diet.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Jan 31, 2011)

'Thanks So Much!! I wasn't sure if chicken food will hurt them. I will do something right away!


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## ksalvagno (Jan 31, 2011)

Good luck with your goats. Sometimes they can be real stinkers.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 1, 2011)

I agree...goats need a balanced goat grain which will give them all the vitamins and nutrients needed.   I also leave out a goat specific loose mineral for them, free choice, along with hay, free choice.

Its important to feed them goat feed.  They can eat corn and will sustain for a while...but its like us eating at McD's everyday...its just dos'nt have enough of the proper nutrients to keep us healthy. And eventually will kill us.  

And improper feeding in goats can and will lead, as Karen stated, to acidosis.  As well as other metolbolic disorders, entero, goat polio, mineral defincencies etc.  

Best practice is to feed goats...goat feed.


Good luck!!!


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 1, 2011)

How much grain should I give Ginger the mama goat of 3 babies. However, she doesn't really like goat oats (grain) but the babies LOVE it. So how much should I give to both of them?

Thanks


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## ksalvagno (Feb 1, 2011)

Which breed of goats are they? How big are they?


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 1, 2011)

The mom is Nubian and the babies are AlpinexNubian. The mom is 1-2 yrs old and the babies are 5-6 months.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 1, 2011)

Are they all females?

For me, my 5 to 6 month kids are on 1 1/2 lbs 17% pelleted goat feed twice a day, per kid. 

 or you can feed them the amount of feed that they will clean up in about 15 to 20 minutes twice a day. You wont make a growing kid too fat, but it will get expensive and they will waste it if you keep too much out.

As far as the doe, If she is in good condition and not nursing she would be fine on good hay and minerals, but if she is nursing I would be feeding her atleast a couple lbs of goat feed a day, and more if she is looking thin.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 1, 2011)

All girls


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 2, 2011)

Triplet girls, we are all jealous.  That makes it easier for you.  Are you just planning on keeping the 4 of them as pets, or are you planning on breeding them?


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 2, 2011)

Well they will be breed, to milk. And for pets


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 2, 2011)

The reason I asked is you will want them on a good quality loose goat mineral free-choice, for the best possible health if you are breeding and milking. If they are just pets and not producing you wouldn't have to be so particular.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 2, 2011)

so how much grain should i feed them?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 2, 2011)

I would start out slow with 1/2 lb of feed per animal two times a day.  
I would pull mom out when feeding the grain and feed her seperatly, since she will eat much faster. 


add another 1/4 lb or so every 3 or 4 days, until they are eating what they can clean up during the feeding. Probably will be around 1 1/2 lbs a feeding. 

Measure the feed with a food scale in a couple different  containers to now exactly what a pound of feed looks like. 

If mom isn't under weight I would give her just one pound per feeding. If she is nursing and needs to put on weight I would work my way up to near 2 lbs per feeding. 


Try to get mom in good condition before breeding again. Are you milking her right now? Or are the kids just nursing on her?


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 2, 2011)

Well the mom is nursing and we are milking her. We read that we can milk her just leave enough for the babies. We milk a little less then half a court from her. She does look a little thin. So feed her a 2 pounds and the babies 1/2?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 2, 2011)

Sorry I am taking so long to respond, I have a set of triplet bucklings born today. and the last one I had to  pull.  He is nursing, but is too weak to stand.  It is going to be a long night.

If she hadn't had any grain I would start with a  1/2 lb per feeding twice a day and work up to the 2lbs per feeding twice a day.  I would also and some alfalfa to her diet or just make sure she is eating as much good hay as possible.  


The kids I would work up to  1 to 1 1/2 lbs of feed per feeding two times a day.  


I need to go to the barn.

Good luck with your goats.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 2, 2011)

Awww how sweet.

Well I guess you'll have to read this later  

Should all the goats have Free access to hay ALL the time? Alfalfa hay??


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 3, 2011)

Yes, I would do free choice hay off the ground in a hay feeder and some alfalfa with some good grass mix hay. and if you have alfalfa cubes or hay your milking doe will need that for the calcium. Start out slow if she isn't use to it. 

While you are changing her feed you can keep out a bowel (dog food bowels work well) of baking soda for them. Or put it in a small hanging feeder. they will lick on it if they get an upset stomach. 


You can also, get a bag of dry beet pulp at the feed store, Beet pulp has lots of calcium and can be feed in place of Alfalfa if you can't find any. There are feeding directions on the bag, I feed mine dry, but some people like to soak it in warm water. 

All three of my bucks are still alive. been a long night. Yawn.


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## emilypaonia (Feb 3, 2011)

I have seen it mentioned around the forum a few times that folks feed baking soda free choice - why?  I have never heard of this.

My goaties get free choice loose goat mineral and kelp.

Also, I have heard that a goat should only grain if she/he is "working" - lactating, packing, breeding buck.  I keep my doelings off grain until a week before kidding - should I be feeding the little ones grain too?  They really want it!

I feed my lactating does 1 lb grain for maintenance, then 1 lb for every 1/2 gallon of milk - I think I got that from Story's guide.  So they get about 3 lbs per day.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 3, 2011)

As far as the baking soda it is for bloat, goats get bloat very easily and they are very good at knowing when they need baking soda to help with this. 

As far as the kids, not sure what kind you have, but I would say unless you have amazingly good pasture, and free-choice minerals out all the time, they would benifit from some goat pelleted grain each day.  we feed 17% pelleted goat ration with Ammonia Chloride in a creep feed set up until the kids are weaned and then we feed them around 2 lbs a day per kid,  until they are around 15 months old and become bred for the first time then we take them off of feed for the first 4 months of their gestation and then give them 1/2 lb grain between 4 months and 4 1/2 months and bump it up to 1lb the last 2 weeks before kidding, but we are raising meat animals, so you might want to post your own thread and see what some of the dairy people are doing.   

An old sheep farmer explained it to me like this. The kid does all  his growing and maturing in the first 15 months or so that is when and where you want to invest in your feed cost. The sooner the kid can reach a good breeding size and be healthy to breed, the sooner you can observe how well your next generation performs. Made since to me, so that is also our theory.  

Ofcourse you are milking so you would have to continue to put feed into your does, We wean at 6 weeks of age, at which time our does need to be dried-up. 

The creep feed area is designed with a gate with bars in it so only the kids can get in and there is free-choice grain available up until the kids are weaned. Then they are switched to two feedings a day.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 3, 2011)

So I should be feeding them different kinds of hay? Not just Alfalfa? If so what kind else do I feed them? 





			
				20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> Yes, I would do free choice hay off the ground in a hay feeder and some alfalfa with some good grass mix hay. and if you have alfalfa cubes or hay your milking doe will need that for the calcium. Start out slow if she isn't use to it.
> 
> While you are changing her feed you can keep out a bowel (dog food bowels work well) of baking soda for them. Or put it in a small hanging feeder. they will lick on it if they get an upset stomach.
> 
> ...


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## ksalvagno (Feb 3, 2011)

I think most people feed hay that they can easily get. I get an alfalfa mix hay. I also add alfalfa pellets to their feed. But you do what works best for you. Some people do feed an all grass hay and add the alfalfa pellets to the feed. Some feed pure alfalfa hay. It is just a matter of figuring out what works best for your farm.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 3, 2011)

Yea, but whats the HEALTHIEST?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 4, 2011)

We don't feed all alfalfa, Or for that matter hardly any alfalfa,because it is like 7 dollars a bale around here and I am already paying 5 a bale for good 2nd cut grass mix hay.  I do now that although Timothy hay is cosidered very good for horses it actually has a fairly low protein level, lower than a good orchard grass hay mix, And a good alfalfa hay would have more than a good grass mix hay. The time the hay is cut is important, for alfalfa or grass hay, If they cut it to late and it is over ripe the portein levels in it are lower. Knowing the history of the hay and how the farmer takes care of his fields is helpful. 

Black sunflower seeds are also another excellent source of calories, and good oils.  They are referred to as BOSS. 

Beet pulp is a good source of calcium and fiber. I feed it dry as a top dress to my lactating does.

I think as far as the hay goes, they may benifit from some grasses mixed in for their rumen, but I am not an expert just my opinion.  If they are on pasture a lot in the spring and summer they may be getting enough grasses from that.   

Since you said she does look thin, I would bump up her feed ration, calories, by adding the goat pelleted feed, maybe some sunflowers  or you can top dress with Calf manna to get weight back on her. 
Sorry for the long carried on response.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 4, 2011)

I feed a mix grass/alfalfa hay....I think the mix is good for them as well.

As for the free choice baking soda...I dont leave it out.  It dos'nt prevent bloat.  Regular and consistant feedings prevents bloat.  Not neccesary and can be ineffective when treating issues if they eat it all the time.

I use it as needed only...


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 4, 2011)

Who thinks I should buy Grass hay/Alfalfa? Who thinks just Alfalfa? Who thinks just Grass/hay? whoever jas the most I just might start doing  that.!!!! GO!!!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 4, 2011)

FarmerBoy24 said:
			
		

> Who thinks I should buy Grass hay/Alfalfa? Who thinks just Alfalfa? Who thinks just Grass/hay? whoever jas the most I just might start doing  that.!!!! GO!!!


I think just alfalfa is not needed all the time, either a grass hay/alfalfa mix, or buy both and mix them your self, allowing you to give more to lactating does and less to other goats.


You might want to start another thread, with just this question, don't forget to put on there  what kind and age of goats you are feeding, And the fact that the kids are still nursing and mom is milking.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 6, 2011)

Can someone explain to me what IS GRASS HAY??!!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 7, 2011)

Grass hay is generally a 2nd cut or 3rd cut hay.  Straight alfalfa is not good alone because its too high in Calcium for goats.  So a mix is always best.  

The only way to find out what is the nutrient values in your hay is to have it tested.  Large dairy producers will do this.  But backyarders dont generally have thier hay tested for nutrients.  

But the best way to feed a goat is to offer them a balanced GOAT specific grain...quality hay mix..and looser minerals goats specific.  And change grain amounts per conditions and whats going on, pregnant, milking etc.

Its not hard as people make it out to be.   

In the winter I give them a mix of alfalfa/1st & 2nd cut...the reason I mix 1st cut in cuz it is stemier.  Not high in nutritional values..but stemier so it takes longer to work in their rumen...and when their rumens working it warms them...like a furnace. And I add 2nd cut so they get some nutrients from it.  

So my best advice is to start understanding how the rumen works in ruminants..and you will understand how to feed!!  

Good luck...happy goat herding!!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 7, 2011)

Some reading material for you.

http://www.hobbyfarms.com/crops-and-gardening/hay-feeding-14792.aspx

http://www.barbibrownsbunnies.com/hay.htm


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 7, 2011)

Now whats a Rumen?

You Guys Are The Biggest Help!!!!


3 Hipps!!!!

HIPP HIPP HORAY!! HIPP HIPP HORAY HIPP HIPP HORAY!!!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 7, 2011)

FarmerBoy24 said:
			
		

> Now whats a Rumen?


A rumen??  Its not a sandwich with sauerkraut!   

Do you really not know???? 

This may help!  I suggest you learn some basics about goats..so important!!!  Read, google, read!!!  

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/4H/meatgoats/meatgoatfs14.htm


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 7, 2011)

I see!! I feel so dumb . So what and how much do you recommend me feed a mother of 3 kids. the mother is 2-3 yrs old and the babies are 4-6 months old. the grain (oats) and hay?Quick question! When will the stop nursing?


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## ksalvagno (Feb 7, 2011)

What breed of goat? How big is she? Feed amount depends on those things. I'm feeding my Nigerian Dwarf does who have kidded 4 measuring cups of grain with 2 cups of alfalfa pellets for a total of 6 cups of pellet type stuff. Two of my does are feeding triplets and the other one is just giving me a lot of milk and I want to keep it up.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 7, 2011)

She is a 2 yr old Nubian. She looks kinda thin. but not like i'm staving her thin, just around the sides of her back, closer to her bottom


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## ksalvagno (Feb 8, 2011)

Dairy goats do tend to look thinner than you would like when milking but if you feel she should get more grain, then you can slowly up the grain amount.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 8, 2011)

FarmerBoy24 said:
			
		

> I see!! I feel so dumb . So what and how much do you recommend me feed a mother of 3 kids. the mother is 2-3 yrs old and the babies are 4-6 months old. the grain (oats) and hay?Quick question! When will the stop nursing?


Dont feel dumb!! We all learned at one point or another.  But I would google all the information you can on the anatomy of goats etc...sometimes the information can get too overwhelming and too indept for what you need.  So I would stick to the basics.

On the feed labels there will be reconmendations on wieights etc.
But you always want to take in consideration if, pregnant, nursing, growing etc....

http://www.amazon.com/Storeys-Guide-Raising-Dairy-Goats/dp/1580172598

I highly recomend you get this book! Its a easy read...but very informative!!  It will be sooo helpful for you!


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 8, 2011)

I'll check this out 

When will the kids be ready to wean?


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## ksalvagno (Feb 8, 2011)

8-12 weeks. I believe people tend to go longer with the large size goats so more like the 12 weeks. But if they bring mom down too much, then wean earlier but no earlier than 8 weeks.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 8, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> 8-12 weeks. I believe people tend to go longer with the large size goats so more like the 12 weeks. But if they bring mom down too much, then wean earlier but no earlier than 8 weeks.


2nd that!!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 8, 2011)

We have large goats, we wean at 6 to 8 weeks.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 8, 2011)

How do you guys wean? (separate them ext.)I mean the kids LOVE her milk.


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## freemotion (Feb 8, 2011)

You can divide your pen and put them in separate stalls at night.  The kids can all be together.  Put in earplugs for the first night, though, then they will settle right down.  Mostly.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 8, 2011)

I am separating them at night so I can milk the mother. Do I have to keep them separated during the day?


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## freemotion (Feb 8, 2011)

OK, let me put it this way.  You put a plate of warm chocolate chip cookies in front of me, suddenly I'm hungry.  Keep them in another location where I can't get to them, I forget they exist.  Mostly.

If you put a plate of warm cookies under my nose every morning after breakfast, no matter how many eggs I just ate, I'd find room for cookies.  Each and every morning.  Probably forever.


Hmmm.  I'm hungry now, for some reason.  



Yup, completely separate them.  When they take no notice of each other, you might try a trial, supervised visit after milking.  They will likely dive in for a sip, but hopefully, mom will chase them away soundly.  If not, keep them separate for a while longer.  It took me about 3 months with my Peach, and she still makes a quick dive for her mom when stressed, but mom is so dry, it makes no difference.  They are both preggers.  Peach is...close to 10 months old.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 8, 2011)

When I separate them, like when they can't see each other they all wine the mom and the kids. Beaaaa Beaaaa!I can understand them doing his, when do you think that'll stop?


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## freemotion (Feb 8, 2011)

It'll likely be bad for 1-3 days, then they will gradually give it up.  Unless they have any Nubian in them ...can't remember....

I cried myself the first time I carried that first little single doeling away from her mom late at night when she was 3 weeks old and snuggled right up against her sleeping mama....But she has Nubian in her, so she was LOUD!   I put her in with her bottle-fed half-sister, and she let her little sister nurse on her ear...it was so stinkin' cute.  She still cries if she is separated from her mama, which happens every 2-3 days when I take her into a stall for a little personal time in preparation for her first kidding and lactation.  So when will the crying stop????    Still waiting, here!  But it is only pathetic for a short while.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 8, 2011)

Why do Nubian do it more? The mother is Nubian and the kids are NubianxAlpine. Free assess for hay for all goats?


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## freemotion (Feb 8, 2011)

Free access to hay for all, it is best for their rumens.

Nubians are often loud as far as goats go, very talkative.  From what I've heard (although some opinions differ) and from what I have experienced.  I think it is cute, personally, and my goats and I will have extended conversations.  The big half-Nubian is the only one who will talk back and forth with me when I am in the house looking out the window and she is at the gate.  She is LOUD!  I love it.  I hope the neighbors do....hee-hee.  My Alpines and Alpine crosses will talk some, but have quieter voices.  My pygmies don't say much at all, but when they do, it can be heard a town or two away, I'd guess!


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 9, 2011)

Wow. So should I start mixing the Grass hay with the Alfalfa and let all 4 goats have free acsess or it all day?


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## freemotion (Feb 9, 2011)

Yes, welcome to the wonderful world of goats!  If you are not already a gardener, it is time to plan your compost pile and become the envy of the neighborhood!


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 9, 2011)

How much hay do you guys leave out for your goats. In my case 1 milking mom with 3 female kids?


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## Our7Wonders (Feb 9, 2011)

I have two full size goats, both bred.  They get a slice of hay in the morning and then in again  the late afternoon or early evening.  Thats it.  I have a pretty awesome hay feeder that doesn't waste much hay at all.  I stole Freemotions homemade hayfeeder idea - she posted some pictures of it a while back.  Before I made the feeder I had to feed 2 slices twice a day.  At the dairy where I bought my girls they put out a slice for each doe both in the morning and then again at night.  

It will depend not only on the feeder but on the type of hay and the size of the slices too.    I'd maybe start with 2 or 3 slices and see how quickly they burn through it, then go from there.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 9, 2011)

Our7Wonders said:
			
		

> I have two full size goats, both bred.  They get a slice of hay in the morning and then in again  the late afternoon or early evening.  Thats it.  I have a pretty awesome hay feeder that doesn't waste much hay at all.  I stole Freemotions homemade hayfeeder idea - she posted some pictures of it a while back.  Before I made the feeder I had to feed 2 slices twice a day.  At the dairy where I bought my girls they put out a slice for each doe both in the morning and then again at night.
> 
> It will depend not only on the feeder but on the type of hay and the size of the slices too.    I'd maybe start with 2 or 3 slices and see how quickly they burn through it, then go from there.


So you don't give them free access to hay all the time?


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## Our7Wonders (Feb 9, 2011)

FarmerBoy24 said:
			
		

> So you don't give them free access to hay all the time?


That pretty much is free access for my girls.  I fill the feeder in the morning with a slice and they work at that on and off throughout the morning hours.  I check it again in the afternoon.  If it's empty, I fill it.  If not, then it's usually empty by their evening feeding and I fill it then.  If I don't fill until the evening feeding then they usually have some left to carry them over in the morning and we can start all over again. 

During REALLY cold weather they have eaten more hay - to keep themselves warm.  On those days I may have to fill morning, afternoon, and evening.  My hay is an alfalfa/grass mix and the slices are fairly thick.   

HTH,
Debbi


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 14, 2011)

MY GOATS ATE SOME WOOD. WILL THIS HURT THEM????


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## elevan (Feb 14, 2011)

FarmerBoy24 said:
			
		

> MY GOATS ATE SOME WOOD. WILL THIS HURT THEM????


Wood...as in...

lumber?
treated lumber?
bark?
shavings?
branches?

The only wood listed above that would really be a problem is the treated lumber.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Feb 18, 2011)

Its alright. Its ok. WeeeeeeWoo How old do they have to be until I mate them??


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