# Best flock for me?



## jhamblin (Oct 24, 2011)

I would love to get a small flock, but I am not sure what breed is best for me, I have two acres and would like to know if someone has any suggestions? I would prefer something not very aggressive.

Thanks,
     James


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## Beekissed (Oct 24, 2011)

I always vote for Katahdins...for the obvious reasons!


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## bonbean01 (Oct 24, 2011)

I would vote for either Dorpers or Katahdins...or a cross...have two Dorpers and two Katahdins and a cross of the two...could not ask for more gentle, playful and very sweet sheep...yeah...I do love them)  Also, going with a hair sheep rather than a wool sheep or dairy sheep is by far easier.
Good luck with getting sheep that you'll love...I really can't imagine not having sheep!!!  They are wonderful animals and except for the ram, we love them up and enjoy that they each have their very own personalities.  I feel kind of sad to not be playing with the ram, but we learned the hard way that it is a big mistake...still...he is such a friendly fellow and it is tempting, but so far we are doing this right.
Let us know when you get your sheep and photos too please!!!

Bonnie


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## Queen Mum (Oct 24, 2011)

What are the pros and cons of those breeds?


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## EllieMay (Oct 24, 2011)

I, too, plan to get some Katahdin sheep.

My reasons are:

-  no shearing
-  easy birthing
-  good mothering instincts
-  parasite resistant
-  good meat
-  no tail docking
-  and they're cute!


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## Ms. Research (Oct 25, 2011)

EllieMay said:
			
		

> I, too, plan to get some Katahdin sheep.
> 
> My reasons are:
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> ...


Have to agree with EllieMay.  As a newbie, to be successful, a breed like this will be easier to learn about and get "hands on" experience.   With livestock lots of learning curve.  No instant gratification.  It takes time.  And knowing what breed is right for you is a Step in the right direction for successful husbantry.  

Looking forward to that "hands on" experience.


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 25, 2011)

In order for us to really help you, we need to know what your goals or "wants" are!  Are you looking for fiber animals? Meat? Lawnmowers?   Where do you live?  Climate can help dictate which breeds will do best in your area.


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## jhamblin (Oct 25, 2011)

I would like something for meat, Fiber would be ok as well, Maybe both...I live in southwest Ohio, Thanks for the input!!


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## jhamblin (Oct 25, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> EllieMay said:
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Are these sheep naturally polled? Because I like the sheep with horns......Everything else sounds great!!!, Oh and Ms. Research, are you hitting on me?


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## RustyDHart (Oct 25, 2011)

Scottish Blackface......the breed is over 800 years old.....from the Highlands of Scotland.   Very hardy, great mothers, long fleeces, both sexes have horns, and no two look alike in their face and leg patterns, and they are great foragers....surviving where some other breeds would not do as well.   
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





        Here are a few other photos of the breed here at the farm....the ugly one in the middle is me.....
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




       Here is some of my Scottish Blackface flock.....


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## boykin2010 (Oct 25, 2011)

I raise katahdins on 3 acres. It works great. Great lawnmowers,mothers,pets, friendly, easy to handle, meaty, disease resistant and everything else. 
I am lazy and sheering just seems like to much work for me to do every year. Wool really isnt selling for very much in my area anyway


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## jhamblin (Oct 25, 2011)

I really like Barbados Blackbelly Sheep, They look really cool, Any Input on that breed? Rusty I do like the Blackface as well, They are really nice looking. How is there temperament? and What is the weight of the sexes?

Thanks,
     James


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## RustyDHart (Oct 25, 2011)

Hi James.....  The Blackface are a medium size breed......rams range from about 150-180 lbs. ....some may go to 200lbs.   Ewes are about 110-130lbs...same may be more.....   their disposition is great.....   rams can be a handful during the breeding season  (hormones).....the breed is a seasonal breeder.   I don't keep ANYONE that is aggressive.....  I think part of their attitude is how they are raised as well.....and some are just poops.....and they go bye-bye.    This is a photo of "Irish Acres Highland Orion"..... 5 yrs. old in photo.....  his personality was great...... I used him for 2 years...  He went to another breeder down State.   I have two of his sons.....   they are in the collage photos....the bigger ram with the all black face his one of his sons.    Hope this helps.....    Getting a breed of sheep is like getting a new car......   get what YOU like and never mind what others like or tell you.    You'll know what you want when you see it.....   It's always worked for me.....   and there are MANY people in this group that will give you any advice that you may want and are willing to help.    Good Luck!!!    Rusty


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## SheepGirl (Oct 25, 2011)

If you're just starting and you have no experience with sheep, talk to a few local sheep farmers about their stock. I wouldn't start with any sheep with too much value...like registered purebreds. Get some mature crossbred ewes. Once you're comfortable with sheep, then I would start investing in some really nice stock (be they rams or ewes) to improve the genetics of your flock.

Just some advice.


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## zzGypsy (Oct 25, 2011)

so what are you looking to do with the wool?
are you looking to use the fiber yourself? spinning? felting? for rugs? next-to-the-skin clothing?
or are you looking to sell it?

there are lots of good meat breeds out there, some make good quantities of medium wool, others make wool suitable for rugs and hard-wear items, a few make fine wool (although often not as good a carcass). and of course there's hair sheep that don't make a usable or saleable fleece at all.

a sheep that's making a nice hand-spinning fleece is a different breed than one making an average fleece.

need more info and details to help you choose the right breed for your use.


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## jbourget (Oct 27, 2011)

how about jacobs!!!??? one of the best meat tastes you can get from the sheep world, lean carcass and just awesome animals overall, with one of the best fleeces for handspinning i always sell out of my fleece right away. the photos speak for themselves, i did like the scottish blackface flock photo!! i have one similar










newest lamb...first time moth although they can breed at 6 months old! amazes me...this ewe was 3 and someones pet so she was never bred till i got her. couldnt ask for a better job





my big guy oliver loves to be sctrached under the chin, and no he is not mean i get right in with him during breeding yes it is all how they are raised...





this is a ram lamb from this year, a 2 horn with a great wide spread!! cranstons my buddy





some of the girls





Reno!! my friends awesome ram


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## RustyDHart (Oct 27, 2011)

Beautiful sheep......Scottish Blackface are my all time favorites.....but I've always had a great interest in Jacobs....again...very nice!


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## EllieMay (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree. 
Very nice Jacobs.


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## jhamblin (Oct 27, 2011)

What are the genetics of the Jacob's horns?? Is there a 4 horned and 2 horned verity or are they one and the same?


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## jhamblin (Oct 27, 2011)

What I would like is a flock of sheep and a herd of goats that can produce fiber meat and milk, so I am trying to find a couple breeds that I can get all of that, Yeah, I know, i am complicated... I am just trying to find the most for my money....


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## zzGypsy (Oct 27, 2011)

jhamblin said:
			
		

> What are the genetics of the Jacob's horns?? Is there a 4 horned and 2 horned verity or are they one and the same?


not sure what the genetics are, but I've seen 2, 3, and 4 horned in the same flock, so I think it's individual variation, not different varieties.


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## zzGypsy (Oct 27, 2011)

jhamblin said:
			
		

> What I would like is a flock of sheep and a herd of goats that can produce fiber meat and milk, so I am trying to find a couple breeds that I can get all of that, Yeah, I know, i am complicated... I am just trying to find the most for my money....


really depends on *what* you want the most of for your money   I have a fondness for multi-purpose animals, however that usually means they don't excell in any of the things they're providing.  my dairy goats are execptionally good milk producers, but don't make very good meat carcasses (well, not particularly meaty anyway, they taste fine.)  I can cross them with a top-line meat buck and get much meatier and still fast growing kids, but the doelings from that cross not are likely to produce as much milk as their mothers, nor will the bucklings be as beefy as their fathers.  I've got 3-purpose (meat/wool/dairy) genetics in my sheep, and I get fast growing lambs with excellently tasty and fair sized, but not extrordinarily heavy, meat carcasses, that make a fair quantity of milk, but aren't production-dairy producers.  and they make medium quantities of medium-quality wool.  if I push the genetics in one direction, I'll lose some ground in another, so it's about finding the sweet spot for your needs.

sometimes it's about having the right does/ewes and the right terminal sire - a boer buck on lamancha does does a pretty good job of producing meat goats for market, the kids grow faster on their dairy mother's plentiful milk than the full-blooded boer kids, but are not going to be as heavily muscled.  still, it's a good market solution, and it gives me dairy does for production of milk.  suits my nitch pretty well.  I might get some angora goats, to have them for fiber, but they won't contribute much to either my dairy or meat program... so I probably won't cross them with other breeds - it would dilute the quality of their fiber without making them a contender in the dairy or meat production, so I'd be losing all around by crossing them.

I've been working on a tripple use sheep line for about 10 years now, and I'm happy with the results, but it's never going to produce fine wool.  great meat in good quantity, good dairy in fair quantity, fair wool in fair quantity.  easy lambing, twins and triplets, good mothering, and gentle rams. robust, generally healthy and no particular problems with hoof rot or parasites.  all in all, I'm very satisified with what I've got working.
but...
I'll need to get specialty sheep for the fine wool.

just have to decide what you really want in a multi-use breed, none of them are exceptional in everything.


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## 77Herford (Oct 28, 2011)

I am liking my Kat's and would suggest them but there are many nice breeds out there.  The suggestion on local farmers would be an excellent idea.  You might also want to Google and search your area of whats available unless you willing to pay for transport or you want to transport yourself long distance.


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## jhamblin (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys!!  What about Icelandic sheep?? there is a person who breeds them pretty close to where I live. Does anyone have experience with them??


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## SheepGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

If I were you, I would get some sheep of a ewe breed...these are sheep that excel in maternal characteristics (fiber and reproduction). I would then get two rams, one of the same breed or breed type (ewe breed) and then a terminal sire (ram breed) that excels in carcass conformation. Cross the top ten to 50% of your ewes with the ewe breed ram to get replacement females and cross the rest of your ewes with the terminal sire to get market lambs. That way you get the best of both worlds.


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## Beekissed (Oct 28, 2011)

jhamblin said:
			
		

> I would love to get a small flock, but I am not sure what breed is best for me, I have two acres and would like to know if someone has any suggestions? I would prefer something not very aggressive.
> 
> Thanks,
> James


Two acres kind of limits your options as far as how many to get, how to keep rams separate, etc.  Where do you live, if I might ask?  If you get drought conditions, that two acres could seem like one.  The year I had severe drought conditions, I had three sheep on one acre and they ate their way out of grass.  

Also...how are you set up with buildings, pens, fencing, etc.  It helps to manage sheep if you have pens in which to hold them, separate them, work with them.  Do you have anyone to help you work with the sheep?  

With all those considerations, I found the hair breeds to be the cheapest, easiest to care for type of sheep for small acreage.  They thrive well in cold and in heat, they do well on both graze and browse, they stay fat on just grass fed regimens and do not thrive on grain fed diets, they lamb well, most often twins, they breed all year round, they don't require much health maintenance...all more bang for the buck.  You can purchase a ram lamb for breeding and tote him to market after you use him, which is great if you have no ways of keeping him separate nor a companion for him in his isolation.  

  Around here it costs $40 for anyone to even come out to shear and you must have at least 25 head of sheep before they will even come out, then they charge per sheep for shearing.  

If you have a handful of sheep, then you either have to buy your own shearing clippers and learn how to do it, have someone to help you, etc.  The good clippers are very expensive.

Woolly breeds have considerations like docking of tails, breeding seasons, different kinds of issues with parasites/infections related to having heavy wool, etc.


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## SheepGirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> Around here it costs $40 for anyone to even come out to shear and you must have at least 25 head of sheep before they will even come out, then they charge per sheep for shearing.


Our shearing costs in Maryland are $75 for the farm call plus $5/head no matter the size, age, or sex of sheep. Our past shearer charged a $25 farm call plus $7/head no matter the size, age, or sex of sheep. None had minimum head requirements.

Basically, if you have less than 25 head, it's cheaper to go with the $25/$7 guy, but if you have more than 25 head, it's cheaper to go with the $75/$5 lady.

It's interesting seeing the difference in pricing.


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## RustyDHart (Oct 29, 2011)

My shearer charges me $4.00 a head....if I have 10 or 210 sheep.....he lives 2 1/2 hrs. South of here.   He does most of the small flocks in my Northern Michigan area.    I don't dock tails....have not for about 10 years.   My breed has very long wool...and they stay clean.....even with long tails.   They don't dock the tails in Scotland...haven't for yrs. with the Scottish Blackface.    If a sheep gets dirty/crappy in that area of their body....it's usually from being sick or eating something different in their diets.....whether they have long or short wool.....   Here is a photo of the backend of some of my sheep...slightly stained.....but no crap balls clinging from their wool.   Healthy sheep are CLEAN sheep.....


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## Ms. Research (Oct 29, 2011)

Thank you Rusty for posting your comment and pics showing your Wool sheep.  I've been reading a lot of the different breeds, trying to educate myself on the best breed for my small farm.  The more I read, the more I believe what you posted regarding the healthy diet will keep sheep from problems of soiled back ends.   Doesn't matter how many you have. 

I understand the arguments of docking vs non-docking, but I also believe that docking just for show is not my "cup of tea".  I've never raised sheep and can only relate to dogs regarding altering their natural state.  The example that comes to mind is the Great Dane.  I used to love their docked ears.  But as an adult, couldn't bare to put a dog through that just for show or what I like it to look like.   I also know that dogs that ears flop over tend to accumulate bacteria in that region but constant monitoring and cleaning will keep any bacteria at bay. 

Bo basically my point is, if you really know ways of keeping them healthy, you don't need to alter their natural state.   Now all I have to figure out is what breed will be best for my needs.  

Thanks to all.  

And I apologize if my posts are considered Hi-jacking.    Just trying to learn.


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## zzGypsy (Oct 29, 2011)

shearing costs are regional... in CA it was $50 to set up and $8/ewe $16/ram.... or $25/head with no farm setup (2 different shearers).  here in MO, I've got a shearer that is $5/ewe and $10/ram plus $.50/ mile (one-way) from his place to yours, so $26 mileage cost for us.

we dock the ewe tails to 1/2 length - in our bloodlines we have *very* long tails and in full wool, the tails weigh enough that the ewes can't get them clear when they pee, so we've had trouble with scald and could have flystrike issues.  docking the ewe tails to half length solves that problem and gives the girls full parts-coverage.  also makes it easy at a glance to see ewes from ram/weathers in the field - the boys all have long tails.  we have had almost no problems with scours so messy wool and flystrike haven't been a problem.

the point made above about where you are is important - in MO, in a dry year like this one, one acre of fescue pasture in fair condition will support 3 sheep but require hay feeding over the winter.  great pature with rotational grazing will support 9-12 sheep per acre, but will still need winter hay.  in CA where we were, one acre will support 4-5 sheep during the 2 green months, and 0 sheep the rest of the year.  hay is required for 10 months on average, although you may get one or two additional months of a small amount of grass to suplement the hay.

if non-agression is a primary factor, look at dairy breeds.  they are bred for easy daily handling and are the least fearful, most currious, friendliest of the sheep we've ever had.  keep in mind if you get a ram, that rams are rams and any individual may be mellow - or not.  we've had some very easy going, non aggressive rams, and one that while friendly and quite interested in having his ears scratched, absolutely WOULD knock you down if you were in the pen and he wasn't tied up. even in generally gentle breeds this is an individual thing with rams and you need to get to know the particular ram's behavior before you decide to buy him.  

in herding, we've found dairy breeds to be hard to herd because they stick to the handler (people oriented), wool breeds to be easy to herd because they generally stick together and are not excessively excitable, and hair breeds more challenging to herd because they are more flighty and prone to split up.  some of the british isles / scottish hill sheep are also hard to herd because of their flighty non-grouping behavior... these sheep are a bit more independent and wary because they have to be to survive.  even though you probably won't be herding your sheep with a dog, their herding behavior is a clue to how they are to handle in general.  and of course, any sheep may vary from the typical - the hardest to handle, wildest sheep we've ever had was a wool sheep - and she was just impossible to catch or handle.  

so thumbnail suggestion here - for starting a flock on 2 acres, consider what you want in results, maybe start with 2 ewes and a ram, or 3 ewes and borrow a ram for breeding.  if you want fiber, pick a wool or meat breed.  if you want dairy, pick a dairy breed.  if you don't care about fiber, get a hair breed.  for starting out get the gentlest, most well-handled sheep you can find.  if you're going to breed do not get ewes that have never been bred, or ewes that are older than maybe 6 yrs... you want ewes that have proven to have no lambing problems and are good mothers (you don't need to learn on a problem mother or one that's new and clueless).  do not buy the first sheep that catch your eye, try to find ones that are going to give you few problems - there's enough to learn without starting on the hard or problematic ones. 

before you start, consider what your costs will be - how good is your pasture, how much hay will you need and what is the cost locally, do you have to upgrade fencing or shelter, will you need to put in auto-waterers or water tank heaters, what is the cost of shearing if you have woolies, what is the worming schedule for your area and the cost, set aside a little for potential vet bills or milk replacer or whatever contingencies you might have.

I love sheep, they're still my favorite farm animal, don't ever want to be without them.  but they can be a bit of work during lambing or if you have an illness, or if your fences are inadequate.  in my mind, totally worth it... still I could have saved myself some money and some effort early on if I'd been a bit more educated on what to get before I started.


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## jbourget (Nov 8, 2011)

jhamblin said:
			
		

> What are the genetics of the Jacob's horns?? Is there a 4 horned and 2 horned verity or are they one and the same?


They are capable of having anywere from 2-7 horns.


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## jbourget (Nov 8, 2011)

jhamblin said:
			
		

> What I would like is a flock of sheep and a herd of goats that can produce fiber meat and milk, so I am trying to find a couple breeds that I can get all of that, Yeah, I know, i am complicated... I am just trying to find the most for my money....


you will find that sheep nor goats will bring you a profit. unless you are maybe a big rancher? it is purley the love and hobby for me. Save back your ewe lambs so you dont have to purchase new stock....


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## zzGypsy (Nov 8, 2011)

there are folks out here in MO making money with goats and sheep , but they are raising animals for the meat market, and they have pasture.  (both large and small producers).
if you're just looking for maximum value for your $ spent on your home sheep/goats, not for market sales, then you really need to decide what you want from them... that is, what "value" means in your situation.


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## Beekissed (Nov 8, 2011)

> you will find that sheep nor goats will bring you a profit


That depends on how you define profit.  I define profit anything over and above what you paid for feed that year and, eventually, recouping the cost of the original breeding stock.  

Now then, if you have a local market for grass fed sheep, as my friend does, you can make a tidy profit on your finished lambs by merely butchering it yourself and selling it to friends and coworkers.  She sells her lamb haunches for $50 a piece and saves the rest of the lamb for her family.  She has a large family, so this additional meat to her freezer is a bonus.  

This year she will have 3 ewe lambs for herd growth and 5 ram lambs to butcher~yielding $500 profit just in rear ends alone, not to mention the ewes she does not have to purchase to increase her flock.  She makes her own hay, so she is not out much in the way of money for feed, as she only feeds grass and hay.


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## BrownSheep (Dec 2, 2011)

If you want meat most people around here raise suffolks. Personally for what you want i'ld get rambouillets or horned dorsets. They produce good meat lambs and have great quality wool. These are fairly large sheep compaired to most though, and aren't for people who don't like dealing with 200lb ewes.


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## 77Herford (Dec 2, 2011)

jbourget said:
			
		

> jhamblin said:
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> 
> 
> ...


Icelandic sheep would be my choice for what you want.
http://www.icelandicsheepworld.com/whyicelandics.htm


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