# Does "Forced" Nursing Really Work?



## brentr (Oct 21, 2012)

I've read about rabbit owners flipping a nursing doe on her back and placing runts (or otherwise challenged kits) on the doe's belly to nurse without the challenge of competing with littermates.  Or keeping her in the nestbox and giving the kits a chance to come up and feed while she is held in the box.

I have a Cali doe who kindled a litter of 12 on Wed (10/17) with two obvious runts.  Fast forward to today: have lost the two runts (expected) plus two others (no obvious reason).  When doing a routine inspection this evening of the litter found one of the remaining 8 that is quite smaller and looked thin compared to its siblings.  This evening I picked up the doe, got the thin kit, and put the doe on her back and put the kit on her belly.  She was clearly full of milk, but the kit never seemed to settle in and nurse.  It would seek out a nipple, latch on and really work it, but a few seconds later it was looking for another.  This repeated several times.  It was as if it never got any milk from any of the nipples.  It nursed at 5 different teats.  It look the same after this attempt as it did before.

The doe was a champ; she never fought or fussed being on her back and was very relaxed (at least on the outside).

Is there any definitive info about how successful forced nursing is, how to do it best, etc?  I'm just not convinced the kit got any benefit.  Do does let their milk down only when they are ready to nurse, or does the kit nursing trigger let down?  I'm curious but skeptical based on what I saw that this nursing method really works.

Thanks for any opinions or references or suggestions for how to make it work.  I'm hopeful this kit will catch up if it can get a few good meals due to less competition.  With only 8 kits remaining, everyone should have a seat at the table, as it were, come feeding time.  

(Incidentally, the litter was sired by a silver fox buck and the entire litter is broken colored!  Neat!!)

UPDATE:
I stand somewhat corrected.  I had a successful feeding yesterday: last night (10/22) I tried another session with the kit.  Doe was a champ again with very calm behavior, and I timed it so that I was feeding the kit just before the doe usually nurses the litter - figuring to have nature help as much as possible with a full milk supply.

Anyway, I put the kit on and it went through its routine again, seeming to flit from nipple to nipple.  However, this time it latched on about the third try and stayed attached and drank for a few minutes.  It moved to another nipple and did the same thing.  After that, it really didn't show any interest in nursing, just snuggling into the fur.  When I took it off, it definitely had a full tummy!    I don't have before/after pics since it was dark (and my hands were full of rabbit and kit), but I know it got fed.

I'm hopeful that a few days of this will help it catch up.  Its siblings are twice its size, and I can easily picture it getting shoved out of the way during the scramble at feeding time.  So I can help it get a good feed at night, and maybe it gets a sip or two at breakfast.  We'll hope so anyway.

Just another reason why it is good to have does kindle in pairs so kits can be fostered, if need be.  I didn't have that in this case.


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## Bunnylady (Oct 21, 2012)

I'm afraid my experience has pretty much mirrored yours. I used to try "forced" nursing, only to lose the kits a few days later anyway. I, too, have wondered about the let down, because I've never seen the kits get anywhere. keeping the doe in the nestbox has been much more useful for me, though I have had the odd doe with which even that didn't work. I'd also like to know how many people have had success with this.


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## DianeS (Oct 22, 2012)

I have never had success when I've tried flipping the doe upside down. Like you, I saw the kit(s) latch on to a nipple, but a few seconds later search for another, and never get their stomach any bigger.

However I have had success in just holding the doe standing in the nestbox over the kits. I have the kits in the nestbox, under hay (to protect them from the intitial few kicks of displeasure mom often does). Then I pick mom up by the scruff of the neck and loose skin at her hips, and move her quickly to the nestbox. Then I just don't let go. For like 15 minutes. It takes quite a while for a really reluctant doe to relax and stop kicking her back legs and let the kits actually nurse. I have to work at finding the right height to hold them sometimes. I'm wanting to hold them at the same height they would naturally stand. Low enough they can't get any power to their kicks, but high enough the kits can get under to nurse.  At least that seems to get the kits fed when the problem is mom just being flighty and not getting in the nestbox for more than a few seconds at a time. I'm suppose I could have only a tiny kit in the nestbox at first, and then add the bigger ones after a couple minutes. That might work for the situation you describe.


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## Omega101 (Oct 23, 2012)

I had to do the same thing with my last lionhead litter. She got pregnant twice too many days apart, so this resulted in half preemies, and half full term. When the babies suckle on mom (while on her back in my lap) all of them switch from nipple to nipple, it seems to be natural. I watched one closely for half a minute and I could see its' belly fill up! Just keep trying and don't let them over eat as well as under eat. What also helped is removing the litter in the morning and kept in a safe container, and then return kits to mom at night.


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## therealsilkiechick (Oct 25, 2012)

i have had success with both methods but i prefer to flip them. however when i first had to do it (i had to teach myself how to do it and didn't know any better) i had a kit go down to far and try suckling on the wrong part and startle mom and mom kicked a baby off. she sliced it in 3 places on it's side w/ her nails and baby's insides fell out and it had to be put down because to hurt to save it and noway being day old it would have made it through a surgery like that. always hold her feet to protect the babies if you flip them even if they are comfortable anything can startle them to make them kick. i had not thought of that at the time because she was so relaxed and i was new to it so it never occured to me to protect the babies like that as i was doing it just incase. had i the baby still would be here. i was horrified it was aweful so please learn from my mistake to watch and guard the babies if you use this method.

i have had to do from one or a couple babies to some full litters from a couple days to some till weening time ea litter was for different reasons. i hate doing it but i'd hate more to loose them and hand feeding they have never made it past 5 weeks old. i have only lost a couple that were peanuts force nursing only because they couldn't figure out how to suckle and latch on. the rest have all made it. 

my girls now that they have been mom's usually don't have a problem but sometimes i still have runts. to help w/ that i now breed different. i breed 2-3 does at a time so they have litters same day or next day from one another. if i have a doe that has 9 one that has 4 and one that has 3, i take babies from the bigger litter and split it to foster a few under another doe or two to spreed the milk out better. so the runts don't have to compete so much. doing it this way they keep up and i don't have to force nurse them usually.

from my experience all the babies root and switch nipples like that. it seems to be the suckling is what lets the milk down. i let them nurse till they fall asleep on her belly or their bellies are round so i know when they are full. i always put the runts on first then the others. sometime's i've had to keep the litter w/ me in a container to until feeding times then 2 times a day i take her to the babies.

don't give up ya just need to find out what works best for you and your kits.


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## lexibot (Nov 19, 2012)

I remember doing this when I was a kid and we had issues with our rabbits (later I found out it was my mother's poor education ...) We lost many babies, simply because we couldn't get a couple does to be proper mothers, and my mother didn't realize the babies needed a certain amount of milk a day (can we say duh...), so we probably could have hand fed them the proper amount and likely saved them but, I am sure the poor babies died of starvation. 

But back to the force nursing - 1 doe literally kicked her poor baby across the room. We did have very good success with another doe though, so I could only suggest that if you do try force nursing, watch out for those back feet, if the doe stresses too much, she'll have a fit.

Also, the bellies should look pretty plump and swollen with red, at least all my healthy babies do, I tend to check mine once a day for the 1st couple days, just to make sure things are going well. They feed REAL fast, and usually 2x a day. Also, I am sure babies tend to have a favorite teat, goats do, humans do, why wouldn't bunnies?? Maybe your baby was looking for it's favorite?


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