# building our own herd...what do I need to know?



## marlowmanor (Sep 25, 2012)

So as y'all know (if you follow my journal and posts) we are planning on doing some more fencing on our property and expanding our goat herd and getting into breeding and selling the offspring. We've been looking on CL for deals and we have a few leads. Now I want to make sure I have all I need to care for a larger herd. 

Right now our medicine cabinet is sparse and only the things we have had to use. On hand right now we have: 
Red Cell
Ivermectin
B vitamins
Pen G
Probios
CDT Toxoid
Hoof trimmers
couple different sizes of syringes and needles

I've looked at and printed off the medicine cabinet that Elevan posted in the member pages. I've saved the thread on the goat started list.

My question is what do I absolutely need on hand and where is the best (most cost effective) place to get it?


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## Southern by choice (Sep 27, 2012)

I think Jefferslivestock.com has good pricing.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 27, 2012)

I try to get what I can from local feed stores, but if they don't have what I want or the prices are way higher than Jeffers, then I order it from Jefferslivestock.  

as far as adding to your must have list.  

I would say a hoof treatment such as koppertox would be nice to have on hand. 
spectam scour halt/gaurd for pigs for scours(small bottle)
a couple pacs of electrolytes such as Bounce back or Re-sorb, these are cheap and well worth having on hand.
mineral oil(at least a quart) and baking soda.  Mineral oil for drenching if you goats get into something they shouldn't 
a drenching syringe or feeding syringe.  30 cc or maybe the 50cc works great. These are wonderful and well worth the $15.00
A small bottle or another option for a wormer,  I would suggest a tube of quest horse wormer or better yet, quest plus. You would have way less money in this than a bottle of cydectin or valbazen, ect....  
If you have younger goats and kids, then you should have a coccidiosis medication on hand.  The cheapest is normally a powdered package of corid or sulfa-dimethoxine. A little harder to mix than the premixed versions. 

Know what is available in your local stores and store hours and what your vet can do for you on weekends.


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## marlowmanor (Sep 27, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> I try to get what I can from local feed stores, but if they don't have what I want or the prices are way higher than Jeffers, then I order it from Jefferslivestock.
> 
> as far as adding to your must have list.
> 
> ...


Thank you 20kids for that simplified list. I will definitely be looking all of those things up. I figure TSC carries most of it and we have a local feed store too we can check at. To start we are trying to get up to 5 does in our herd. We will be borrowing a buck starting in December for breeding. So we should have kids by May here, unless we find a bred doe that kids earlier than that. 
I am planning to do some big goat talking with my dad this weekend when we visit. I plan to ask him what he keeps on hand for his herd, what he uses in his feed mix and what to look for as far as quality in new goats. He has offered to go with us when we go look at goats so he can give us his opinion if we want him too and we may take him up on that. He's not as specific as a lot of the breeders on BYH (he doesn't do kidding pens, pasture breeds, no FAMANCHA training but knows about looking at gums and eyelids and the signs of a worm load that needs treating). He has been raising goats my whole life though and definitely knows his stuff. I trust his judgement and I know he will give an honest opinion and not let us get crap to start off with.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 27, 2012)

i would for sure trust your dad's judgement and even though he may not refer to checking the goats color as the Famancha scale, I am sure he is using some of the same approaches. Just discribes them differently.  We don't always use kidding pens. But we kid in the winter, so a heat lamp is kind of nice to have, also the larger(standard) breeds, especially some of the dairy breeds can have weaker legged kids. 

Are you planning on raising the same breed as your dad?  And in the same general area? He would certainly be a wealth of infomation if that is the case. which I am thinking it is.   Is he having problems with weak legged kids?  Do you even need to worry about Bo-se shots(selenium) shots in your area?  What is his percentage of live births and survival of his kids. If his numbers are good, i wouldn't change much. If he is having some problems here and there, then I would reevaluate some of his management practices and see what you would change.   

for example, maybe he could do some coccidiosis treatments to help his kids.  Or would benifit from a creep feed area.  Maybe he doesn't do loose goat minerals and the extra boost in minerals would really improve hair coat or breeding numbers.  Just examples. I really have no idea how well your dad's goats do.


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## marlowmanor (Sep 27, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> i would for sure trust your dad's judgement and even though he may not refer to checking the goats color as the Famancha scale, I am sure he is using some of the same approaches. Just discribes them differently.  We don't always use kidding pens. But we kid in the winter, so a heat lamp is kind of nice to have, also the larger(standard) breeds, especially some of the dairy breeds can have weaker legged kids.
> 
> Are you planning on raising the same breed as your dad?  And in the same general area? He would certainly be a wealth of infomation if that is the case. which I am thinking it is.   Is he having problems with weak legged kids?  Do you even need to worry about Bo-se shots(selenium) shots in your area?  What is his percentage of live births and survival of his kids. If his numbers are good, i wouldn't change much. If he is having some problems here and there, then I would reevaluate some of his management practices and see what you would change.
> 
> for example, maybe he could do some coccidiosis treatments to help his kids.  Or would benifit from a creep feed area.  Maybe he doesn't do loose goat minerals and the extra boost in minerals would really improve hair coat or breeding numbers.  Just examples. I really have no idea how well your dad's goats do.


We will be raising the same breeds and in the same area (he only lives 10 minutes away). He has a good kid crop usually. I have to ask him about Bose shots, but I am pretty sure he doesn't do them. I certainly don't remember ever giving shots to the goats before kidding. I also don't remember dipping kid navels as I hear so many breeders do here.

We will definitely be sitting down with him and finding our all we can about his operation. My DH definitely needs to learn alot as far as the goat breeding adventure goes. I've been raised around it so I know alot about it all, DH has no clue and is stubborn about listening to me when I tell him something new I've learned here. He likes to say "well your dad doesn't do that with his goats" so if we get all the info straight from the source maybe he'll follow the advice.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 27, 2012)

marlowmanor said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
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My husband would do the same thing, We have both been in agriculture our entire lives. and my husband's dad is a large animal vet(well retired now).  But he has eventually come around and loves what I have  learned. As far as some of the practices that people talk about like you have to or your entire herd is going to drop dad. Well, I have a secret, if you promise not to tell.  We have never dipped a single naval in 15 years of raising goats, and you know I have more than just a couple goats.   I don't normally mention it, because I am sure it is a good idea that you do it.  

Good luck on your adventure,  I think the smaller breeds are pretty darn hardy compared to some of the standard breeds, so you probably don't need to worry about having as big of a medicine cabinet.  And stuff does expire, so can be a waste of money keeping around.  Keep the products out of the sun, in your basement or house, so that way they should last even past the expiration date. 

OH, I know urinary calculi can be bad in the smaller breeds, so maybe a  pound of ammonia chloride woudl be good to have on hand. It is cheap and will keep for years. 

What about a bander for castrating 
and a tattoo kit?  are you doing registration, I would think some things you could share with your dad?


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## marlowmanor (Sep 27, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> marlowmanor said:
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We are not doing registered goats so won't need a tattoo kit. My dad has a castrator and we may be able to work something out to band males over there if we need to. I want to learn how to do it properly and even let DH learn how to do it, though I don't think he is going to like it. He still brings up that I got BlackJack fixed rather than leaving him a buck. According to him we could have had babies already here if I hadn't have had him banded. (I just ignore him when he gets into that argument now! ) I will add the AC to the list. Definately worth having around. Our feed has AC in it (I think, I may have to recheck the label) as well.
We keep medications in the house right now. We are thinking about wiring the storage building and putting a small fridge in there for the goat stuff though. That way it's not taking up space in our house.


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## that's*satyrical (Sep 28, 2012)

I know a previous post listed a few of these items & I agree but here are a few I recommend

7% iodine for umbilical cords of newborns 
Di-methox for cocci prevention/treatment
Valbazen
Agri-labs vitamin & electrolyte solution (great for after worming, times of stress, greater feed economy, and acidifying urine to prevent UC) only 2 bucks a pack & a pack goes a long way. I also love to use this if I get a kid with bloat in place of milk for a couple days. It even contains pro-biotics! Personally I think it also helps you get more doe kids......  
lots of fresh clean towels to use for wiping the slime off newborns
a nasal aspirator for helping kids that have a lot of mucus in their mouth/nose after birth
hoof-heal (I always apply this stuff after hoof trimmings, love it!)


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## marlowmanor (Sep 28, 2012)

that's*satyrical said:
			
		

> I know a previous post listed a few of these items & I agree but here are a few I recommend
> 
> 7% iodine for umbilical cords of newborns
> Di-methox for cocci prevention/treatment
> ...


Where do you get the Agri-labs vitamin and electrolyte solution?


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## that's*satyrical (Sep 28, 2012)

I order it when I order stuff from Jeffers.


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## Mf628 (Oct 4, 2012)

If you're starting a herd from scratch, there are a few key factors to consider:

1) Start with a clean, healthy herd. Don't be afraid to ask the breeder for a CVI, CAE/CL/Johnes test results, and their vaccination and deworming protocol is.

2) Start with the best quality goats you can justify. No matter if you're keeping a herd for show, for meat/milk or just for pets, you will quickly realize that costs add up quickly. If you can make enough money from selling goats or their products to break even or even make a profit, you will be in good stance. Selling quality breeding stock or cull animals for meat can help keep costs and herd numbers low. 

3) Utilize as many natural resources as possible. Not only will feeding purchased hay and grains add up in price, but it can also be unhealthy for your animal. Not that I'm against feeding concentrated grains, as I feed it to all my goats, but they will thrive much better and happier on good quality pasture or browse. 

4) Have a plan ready before the time comes. This means, know what you are going to do when kids start hitting the ground. Will you seperate does and kids from the main herd? Will you have your bucks seperated from your does at all times or would you prefer not knowing when your kids are going to hit the ground? Also, make connections with other breeders and goat raisers in your area. They will help you by giving tips, selling/buying breeding stock, and also lease out breeding bucks.

Good luck on your herd!


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