# Say NO To Horse Glue



## MiniGoatsRule (Jul 29, 2019)

I was reading my new member intro, and saw where I said, "I don't believe in horsemeat or how glue is made." Glue. Word of the day. I figured that if I really don't believe in it, I should do something. Okay, yes. I admit that chemical based glue is sometimes worse than using horses. And mostly, it's cow hooves and whatnot. I'm no vegan, I like myself a good burger. So the cattle thing is better. But some companies still use horses. I will do more research about it, and find out who those companies are. And I want to go on strike. I want to make it a law that stores in Montana can't sell glue made from horses. And I want anybody who feels that it's right to do the same for their state. I will send a reply listing companies that use horses for glue. Tell me in your reply if you would want to do that.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 29, 2019)




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## CntryBoy777 (Jul 29, 2019)

It seems it would be different if horses were being processed just for glue....but, since it is a by-product of an already slaughtered animal....I'm not really sure that it is of much significance....just like bows for fiddles, cellos, or violins....when there are a tremendous amount of viable horses in "kill pens", I don't think there would be much traction for an "anti glue" crusade....


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## MiniGoatsRule (Jul 29, 2019)

True that. But a lot of it is horses already alive that aren't of use to humans are being sent there. Shouldn't they be able to live their lives out? Just sell them to somebody who would keep them. I still think cattle are better for that. (Okay, maybe I'm too worried. I'm kinda soft. But I am only a tween)


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## Beekissed (Jul 29, 2019)

I never understand the differentiating between which animals it's okay to slaughter and use for various by products.  Why is it okay to kill cows but not horses?   Cows have a life too, why are horses more sacred?  

The fact of the matter is that horses are expensive to keep, not everyone has the money nor land to "give a horse a home to live out their lives"  and there are a glut of unwanted horses in the country.  What exactly are to be done with them?  

I'm like most everyone else....I can't imagine slaughtering a horse as opposed to slaughtering a cow, but that's largely due to our country's culture.  In some countries horse meat is regularly consumed and it's acceptable there, even desired over beef.  

Eating a burger and crying over glue is like gagging on a gnat while swallowing a camel.  It just doesn't make any sense.


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## farmerjan (Jul 29, 2019)

I have to fully agree with @Beekissed .  I see no problem with slaughter of a horse as opposed to a cow/steer/heifer/bull/calf or a goat or kids or sheep or lambs.... I have raised horses, Appaloosas.  Used to show.  There are way too many horses in this country, and way too many horse owners that shouldn't have one.  Do I think it would be nice if they could all live out their life in a happy place.  Sure.... but I feel that way about some of my very productive and friendly cows. 
One of the problem with horses is there are too many, people get tired of them, and everyone thinks "oh the poor horsey"..... cows have personalities too.  And there are alot of horses that should be horse meat glue or whatever.   Sorry, I have been around horses most all my life, do not presently have one due to time as they do require a fair amount of time to take care of them right.  There are some that just are rank.... be it from human neglect or mistreatment, but many are just born with attitudes and some are just dumb.  NO DIFFERENT with any animal.  My sister had a pet hen that she walked on a leash with a cat harness, when she was a little girl.  Hen went every where with her.  I buried my old guernsey cow because she meant that much to me.  Buried my first horse, purchased when I was 14, when she died of old age at 27.  Sold a horse I had for many years, for slaughter, because I would not want anyone to have to deal with that witch.  Have a yearling heifer that was raised on a nurse cow, with 3 others.... she is such a friendly pet that you trip over her when you go to the barn.  Since we have another named pet, she is "brat".  Probably stay for a long time if she produces decent calves. 

Sorry I can't agree with the "glue thing".  We need to better utilize all animal by products.  And if glue is one thing, god bless them for not using some kind of chemical mixed up stuff that could cause cancer or some other thing.


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## farmerjan (Jul 29, 2019)

Another thing, people that were willing to keep a horse around found out during that downturn that they no longer could afford to.  No one was buying since the killing of horses isn't legal in the US.  So, they are sold for next to nothing, then had to be transported hundred/thousands of miles to somewhere that allowed slaughter.  HUMANE to have them on trucks for thousands of miles.?  Because someone decided that horses were too important to be killed;  they had personalities and all that.  Okay.....  People were turning them loose to forage along roadsides because they couldn't afford to feed them and had to make choices of them or the horses.  So, no, I can't and won't agree to boycot glue because it is a by product of a horse that has been slaughtered.  Better than abused or neglected.


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## Beekissed (Jul 29, 2019)

Amen to all of that!  Voice of reason.  I've seen far too many people take in horse "rescues" and then give them a life of total neglect and torture, all in the name of compassion and wanting folks to think they have a truckload of it.  Time after time these horse collectors find they can't afford farriers, vet care and the feed for these horses, nor do they have enough land to pasture them....and the poop mounts up daily.  

I saw one place with a horse in a stall where the horse's head was nearly touching the ceiling as it stood on a slope of manure that was 4 ft thick...it had to stand in that stall every day, on that slope, braced against falling into the wall.  All the horses at that place showed neglect in one way or another  and the barn was so full of manure it was sickening...and the guy told me all of those horses were foster horses he had "rescued".

My sister "rescued" and fostered horses and still has many of them....they've had many health issues and the vet has warned her that a few need put down~they are in pain every single day, but she can't stand to kill any of them, so they live a life of pure suffering.  They've never seen a barn or a shelter of any kind since stepping foot on her place...she doesn't own a barn.  

So much for "having a life"....some things are worse than death in this world.   Daily suffering and neglect are a few of those things.


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## Baymule (Jul 29, 2019)

You have landed in the midst of practical people. yes, I love and adore my horses. Yes, I have two unridable senior horses that continue to eat and cost money. If we could no longer afford to care for them, I'd place a bullet in their heads before putting them on a truck to Mexico. But that's me. We checked on what it would cost to euthanize them, then what it would cost to have them hauled off and buried. 

To have a vet come out and put down our old seniors will be a $75 farm call, plus $100 to put each one down. We found a place that will come pick them up and go bury them, $325 each, but since we have done dirt business with them before and the guy likes us, he came down to $250 each. So if we have them both put down at the same time, that is a $750 kick in the heart. No wonder people take their old sick horses to the sale where kill buyers take them to slaughter. In numerical sense, it makes more sense to get a couple of hundred bucks for one than shell out more money than that just to put them down and dispose of 1,000 pounds of soon to be rotting horseflesh. 

Yes there are some very nice horses that go to slaughter. We have 2 of them. Both severely underweight, malnourished, but it wasn't the kill pens that starved them, their former owners did. 

Everything @farmerjan said is true. When the slaughterhouses in the US closed, people started dumping horses. They turned them loose on roads, in forests (there is nothing to eat in a forest and they starved). Worse, people let their horses starve and drop dead. Thank you bleeding heart do-gooders for the triumph of closing down the horse slaughter houses, now horses are shipped hundreds, thousands of miles to Mexico. I'm sure that the horses suffer more than they ever did here in this country. Slaughter should be brought back to this country and regulated properly like any other slaughter facility. 

It becomes a matter of economics. Somebody loses a job, suddenly paying the house note and putting groceries on the table becomes more important than buying horse feed. The horse has to go. They take it to a sale, nobody bids on it and a kill buyer buys it. It may be a very nice horse, but if nobody wants it, it goes to slaughter. 

the problem is not horse slaughter, it is over breeding, making more foals that grow up and somewhere along the way, become unwanted horses. The horse market is saturated with more horses than buyers. A lot of so called rescues are pits of hell, worse than any ride on a truck to Mexico. 

I understand your love of horses and abhorrence that anyone could slaughter such beautiful animals that are more pets than livestock. After all, we don't eat dogs or cats. But in many countries, dog and cat meat is on the menu. 

I get where you are coming from. You may be a tween, but you have a pretty good grip on things. This is an emotional issue for many people. Clear your head, look at the reality of things. When you grow up, maybe you can buy a horse from a kill pen. You can't save them all, but you can save one. Maybe you can save two, but you have to be able to afford them, it circles back again to the economics of keeping a horse. 

Nobody here is fussing at you, we've just been around a long time and see both sides of the issue. I admire your passion for something that you think is wrong.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 29, 2019)

Beekissed said:


> I never understand the differentiating between which animals it's okay to slaughter and use for various by products. Why is it okay to kill cows but not horses? Cows have a life too, why are horses more sacred?
> 
> The fact of the matter is that horses are expensive to keep, not everyone has the money nor land to "give a horse a home to live out their lives" and there are a glut of unwanted horses in the country. What exactly are to be done with them?


I agree. I'd rather see horses go to slaughter than to see a horse starved and neglected because the market is flooded and they are expensive to keep.

Don't get me wrong- horses are amazing animals. I love stories (like Baymule's) who have saved horses from the slaughter pens and actually DO something with their equine companion. But what about all those other horses? Where do they go? Is it fair to them to get tossed around from farm to farm? To be neglected? How many people can take in all these animals? A quick death is kinder than a life of suffering. I am pro horse meat, never waste a death. As long as the horses are handled in a humane manner I don't have a problem with it. Why should it be any different that cattle? I think anthropomorphism plays a role here.


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## MiniGoatsRule (Jul 29, 2019)

Yeah, I guess. I still don't believe in it, but I guess I'll just keep it to myself


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## Baymule (Jul 30, 2019)

MiniGoatsRule said:


> Yeah, I guess. I still don't believe in it, but I guess I'll just keep it to myself


Feel free to express your beliefs. We are not knocking you or what you believe in. You asked for our support, we gave you reasons why we would not support what you proposed. This is a family here, like all families, we don't all agree all the time. Please don't get your feelings hurt, you don't have to agree with us and you are certainly entitled to your beliefs.


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## Beekissed (Jul 30, 2019)

Definitely!  It's okay to agree to disagree....we are all wonderfully different in this world and that makes for an interesting world to live in.


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## promiseacres (Jul 30, 2019)

My Mom's last (passed away 4 years ago) husband is a very good example of why we need horse slaughter. He had $$ and decided to get into raising Morgan horses. So got several mares and 2 not so great studs. Why did he want to do this? Because he like to take that year's foals in the local parades...so they had 1 to 3 foals every year. Which he just kept and never trained beyond the first few months.... now my Mom has 2 19 year olds and a 9 year old left ( they had 20 at one time) which know nothing and freak at anything new... he refused to feed them correctly and even fed one to death due to founder...  now my aunt has two of these and we have one... and it really stresses me... I work hard to have my horses and we aren't in the position to keep pasture pets. And these guys are just that....they are all old enough that...well unless we found someone who had the training skills they also would need hours and hours of time.... I would send them to slaughter... but frankly it's not up to me at this time... sad it's not their fault they really shouldn't have been bred. 
@MiniGoatsRule It's good to believe in something but having seen this scenario first hand.... I can't agree. These pasture pets will hurt you because of their lack of training... it would be nice if there was a place they could just be out in a big pasture and live out their days but that's not reality.


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## MiniGoatsRule (Jul 30, 2019)

I've never thought of it that way. Probably because I'm obsessed with Join Up, but Monty Roberts can't visit everybody


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## HomesteaderWife (Jul 30, 2019)

I understand where you are coming from so much with your concern @MiniGoatsRule. If we are being honest, at one point in younger years I was vegetarian for years and vegan for maybe a year itself...I was constantly reaching out to representatives, especially when slaughter houses for equines were open. As I have seen mentioned, and seen from experience, the shut down led to really bad cases of neglect and abandonment in an unfortunate turn. I've worked with horses who were rescued from standing in feet of human waste that hadn't eaten in Lord knows how long, and I remember this pasture out on a county road where volunteers went and put hay and feed because people came from all around and turned their horses loose there because they couldn't afford them or didn't want them. Quarter Horses with great lines and papers can't sell for $100 even as foals around here. You see them in the sale papers for free constantly- I've seen a man here advertising the same horses for over a year, because they are much older and still green. _(We end up as a mainly cattle/chicken area because that's what sells, and that's what people eat. The only folks with horses have bombproof broke ones to herd those cattle)_

I'm not here to say your enthusiasm for sticking up for horses is wrong! Having compassion for all living things is a characteristic worth mentioning. As much as I hate to, I am here to say though that yes, the aftermath of US plants closing brought some problems into the horse world that are hard to grasp....


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## MiniGoatsRule (Jul 30, 2019)

There are a ton of weird animal abusers not yet caught by the cops in the Gallatin Valley, so... Yeah. If I did end up doing that, then... Their horses would be in even WORSE condition. People like those just make me want to steal all their animals and take them to any home even BARELY better than that one


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## Beekissed (Jul 30, 2019)

MiniGoatsRule said:


> I've never thought of it that way. Probably because I'm obsessed with Join Up, but Monty Roberts can't visit everybody



I love to read and watch Monty Roberts too!  LOVE Join Up and would love to try it on a horse of my own....but...alas...don't have enough land to support a horse, nor enough money.  Still....really makes ya want to try join up, doesn't it?  

I'd even like to try it on  my sheep and see if it works for them...he did it with a deer, why not sheep?


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## MiniGoatsRule (Jul 30, 2019)

I want to ask him if he wants to do a show at our barn. We have a stupid, reckless, dangerous horse at our barn. If he did a show, we'd charge him by having him use that horse for a show.


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## Cindy in SD (Aug 7, 2019)

I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but slaughter of horses for food would do more to guarantee survival of the species than all the rescue operations in existence. Chickens aren’t in danger of extinction, yet like horses, many of the heritage breeds *were* in danger of extinction until private people started keeping them for eggs and meat. People don’t generally keep chickens as pets. If we were depending solely on pet chickens to continue the genetic pool then chickens probably wouldn’t make it.

Most people don’t have a problem with fried chicken, yet there is evidence to argue that chickens are significantly better at learning complex tasks than horses. Could you teach a horse to play a tune on a horse-sized piano? Yet chickens *can* be taught to play simple tunes on small pianos, along with many other behaviors you would be hard-pressed to teach to a horse. (And of course chickens eat a lot less than horses and require far less real estate.) Chickens will learn to be affectionate pets, jump up on your lap and beg for cuddles, even go for walks with you. All that is great, lots of fun, very gratifying, but the real reason chickens aren’t in danger of extinction is eggs and meat.

Ditto goats, sheep, cattle, etc. We keep small, relatively intelligent, house-trainable animals as pets. (House training is no doubt the reason you probably won’t find chickens at your local pet store.)

Few people have the means to keep horses as pets and even fewer have the need to keep horses as work animals. Almost no one has a need for horses as a means of transportation. The niche for horses as domestic animals is pretty tight. If we raised horses for meat, the species would have a much better shot at surviving. As it is though, one would be justified in showing concern for the survival of a sufficient gene pool to ensure the continued health and well-being of the equine species. So... based on that, I have no problem with horses being treated the same as other well-cared-for farm animals. They themselves would have much better lives if we didn’t pretend that they were more special than cows or chickens or pigs (super intelligent animals, btw).

I’m concerned with pig factories, chicken factories and cattle in feed lots, not to mention the woeful living conditions of many unneeded horses. These are real incidents of animal abuse. Humane slaughter of animals for food doesn’t bother me. I don’t like slaughtering my meat birds, but the truth is that those birds wouldn’t even have been hatched if I hadn’t placed an order for them. They have a pleasant life with grass to enjoy, bugs to eat, warmth, shade, cleanliness... They’re well-fed & watered and treated with kindness and respect. Slaughter involves maybe 60 seconds of their lives at the most—lives that they would never have had if we didn’t allow consumption or slaughter of chickens.

We don’t know what we don’t know, and compassion is never wrong, Minigoats. You are young and sweet, and that’s a very good thing. I’m old and am still learning areas where I’ve been wrong. I expect to go on having to say, “Oh yeah, I guess I didn’t think of that,” and having to revise my opinions. I hope to go on doing that for all eternity.


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## Beekissed (Aug 7, 2019)

Excellent post and points, @Cindy in SD !     I hadn't really thought of it that way, but you are entirely right about how animals that are raised for food are more in focus when it comes to breeding and development of the species.


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