# How wool breed owners view hair sheep.



## BrownSheep (Aug 31, 2013)

Now, please don't get offend if you raise hair breeds this is just an observation.

As a wool breed owner I don't particularly like hair breeds. I love all their attributes but they just aren't for me. To me they look kind of goaty ( I have no problem telling them apart mind you). I know that people View the fact they dont have a lamby taste as a good thing, but....Lamb is LAMB shouldnt it taste like it ( Ive also had mutton and that is a different story). I've also notice old timers don't seem to like them all that much.

I am wondering if the hair breed owners on here have a hard time over coming the wool/hair prefrence.

Another factor could just be I am out west and most of the members on here live in what us western folk consider to be eastern states.


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## Chevoner (Aug 31, 2013)

I was just about to google hair vs. wool sheep! 
Please chime in here!


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## BrownSheep (Aug 31, 2013)

Big difference is Hair sheep shed. They grow wool ( *horrible* quality) and shed it off in the spring. Some also claim they are more parasite resistant, but I personally think that has a lot more to with how a breeder manages parasite resistance within their flock. I've also noticed on here that most hair breeds don't seem to have more than twins during lambing. This isn't nessacarily a bad thing though considering that third ( or fourth) lamb can sometimes be more of a burden than a blessing.

Wool breeds need to be sheared. Some of those also have crappy wool. I'll post more later but I'm falling asleep typing this! Night


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## SheepGirl (Aug 31, 2013)

lol 

For the longest time I wanted a flock of Katahdins. I think I was looking at them for a good 3-4 years. I'm glad I never got any. YES, I think they're great sheep. They are average sized, have lots of babies, grow fast, and are in general very healthy sheep, BUT they lack the muscling that I desire. (I love big butts on my sheep lol and the Katahdins I've seen just don't have it.) Now, I have been looking at Dorpers because it is my understanding they grow faster than the Katahdin yet are still in general healthy sheep and they have better muscling, however, they are lacking in the maternal department (making lots of babies). Plus they get fat on air. Which is nice but Dorpers have too much of a good thing; being fat while breeding/lambing is not good. The other hair sheep breeds...St. Croix, Blackbellies, etc, are just way too light muscled for me to even think about keeping. Yes it's nice they are very maternal but what's the point of producing lots of lambs if they won't hang good carcasses. It's almost like they produce a bunch of babies to make up for it, lol.

I definitely prefer my wool sheep  They are crosses, all of them Babydoll Southdown x Montadale crosses with this year's lambs being half Texel. They are small to medium sized, have averaged a 100% lamb crop for ewe lambs, 175% lamb crop for mature ewes, need no to VERY little deworming (one sheep a year, if that, knock on wood), are generally very healthy (usually one sheep/year requires antibiotic treatment for a fever), have good growing lambs (~0.4 lbs/day on pasture only), heavy muscled carcasses (big butts, wide set, flat topped), are good moms (very rarely need to be jugged), etc.

Maybe I'm bias but hugging a nice soft sheep that smells like lanolin and manure is one of the greatest parts of my mornings


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## Chevoner (Aug 31, 2013)

Interesting... I knew goats (hopefully) have twins, and occasionally triplets, but I'd not yet considered the birthing habits of sheep. They routinely birth 3 or more?


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## Ruus (Aug 31, 2013)

Chevoner said:
			
		

> Interesting... I knew goats (hopefully) have twins, and occasionally triplets, but I'd not yet considered the birthing habits of sheep. They routinely birth 3 or more?


It depends on the breed. Some breeds rarely twin, and the Finnish Landrace frequently has four or five, though I've heard of a ewe that had nine in one "litter"!

As far as hair vs wool breeds, I don't think balancing carcass traits against maternal characteristics is a dilemma unique to hair sheep. The fact is, heavy sheep are usually born as heavy lambs, and if the lambs are heavier, there's less room for multiples in the dam.

The downside of hair sheep is that there are only, what, six breeds to choose from? So it's harder to find a breed that exactly fits what the producer wants. There are lots of people trying to overcome that problem, though. The local land grant university farm is working on a Dorper/Polypay composite, and there's a farm somewhere around my area that has a Dorper/Katahdin composite flock that seems pretty well balanced. And some varieties of Katahdin are much heavier than the original type. 

I think right now the wool breeds probably do have the advantage, especially since a lot of packers automatically discount a hair sheep carcass without examining it, but I think people are very attracted to not having to shear or pay a shearer, and eventually the genetics will even out. I don't think hair sheep will be going away as long as wool prices stay so low and high-paying hand spinners stay scarce. :/

There's no arguing the fact that the wool is pretty, though.


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## BrownSheep (Aug 31, 2013)

Ruus said:
			
		

> Chevoner said:
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I didn't know that about the packers. Have you ever heard of Black Hawaiians? I saw somebody selling some and am wondering just how common they may or may not be.


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## boothcreek (Aug 31, 2013)

Well, as a hairsheep keeper I cannot really comment much on wool sheep other than that the lanolin in their fleece makes my hands burn like acid(allergy?); and since I work at a small local inspected slaughter facility that does about 350-400 woollies(and about 50 or so hair sheep) each summer I want to beat every wool sheep owner with a stick cause none of the poor things are ever shorn or already grown out 3-4 inches and that wool is just nasty in an abattoir setting.  
Only nice lambs are the 4-H ones that are sheared nearly bald and bathed. Also what I have seen for carcasses once skinned and hanging in the cooler I cannot tell the Suffolk/hamp/polypay from the dorpers/katahdins, weight wise they all seem to finish out at the same but with the hair sheep there is a whole lot less dirt and contamination issues(AKA a whole lot less profanity  ). Of course the farms around here prefer to slaughter their woollies so they finish out to about 40 lbs(my blackbelly carcasses are bigger than that).
Around here there is no market for wool, none at all and unless you shear your sheep yourself they will not get done.


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## Four Winds Ranch (Sep 1, 2013)

I have MOSTLY wool sheep and a couple Katadins, and 1 Dorper! I find, might just be the sheep I have, but, the hair sheep lambs seem to be of an average of 10ish lbs less than the woolies on the same feed for the same amount of days for finished weight. Also, the main reasons that hair sheep arnt really for me is that they always find somewhere to get out of the fence, climb and jump on everything, and seem to be drawn to things for them to get into!
Now, this might not be all hair sheep but any of the ones I have ever had all seem to have most of these characteristics.
I will say one thing for them, they did/do have lots of lambs! (But could use a little more milk)
Also, in this area, the meat plant, and at the auctions, hair sheep are sold automaticly 10-20% less than the woolies!!


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## Ruus (Sep 1, 2013)

Four Winds Ranch said:
			
		

> Also, in this area, the meat plant, and at the auctions, hair sheep are sold automaticly 10-20% less than the woolies!!


Here too, most places, which is totally unfair, IMO. If you get less because they weigh less, that's fine, but knocking down the price on an animal that's no different under the hide and is actually easier and cleaner to process makes no sense to me. 

My own woolies would have a hard time competing with a rabbit on carcass traits, (though it's more than enough for our family freezer!) and are neither traditional wool nor hair sheep, but primitive type "shedding sheep", so I don't really have a stake on the issue, but there are several people around here with very meaty Katahdin breeding stock, and I don't think the Katahdin meat looks or tastes any different from regular lamb. Certainly not enough different to justify the discount.


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## boykin2010 (Sep 1, 2013)

Ruus said:
			
		

> Four Winds Ranch said:
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WOW?!  Really?   Hair sheep (Especially pure Kat's) sell for a lot more than woolies in my area - sometimes even 2x as much!


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## n8ivetxn (Nov 9, 2013)

I have Barbados Blackbelly sheep. I really enjoy them. No horns, no docking tails and no shearing. Easy birthers, very little trouble. Their small size is easy for me to handle, even the rams. I don't vaccinate for anything and only de-worm an occasional individual. Hard, black hooves are nice, especially in this climate - it helps reduce/prevent hoof issues. Mine are almost totally grass fed, I only supplement late term pregnant ewes or lambs who look a little needy. I like the look of them, something besides plain white (easy for predators to see).

There are draw-backs. The packers, for one. They aren't double muscled, like some breeds and unlike wool breeds that store fat under the skin, BBs store fat around the organs. So, it's difficult to get that "plump" look on grass alone.

It's all personal preference!


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