# Beet Pulp and Sheep?



## boothcreek (Apr 15, 2011)

I find very little on the web when it comes to sheep and beet pulp. I know they like it but is it alright to feed in larger quantities?

I am looking for a substitute or at least addition to their grain since my yearling Ram came down with a case of kidney stones(luckily after 3 days of misery and only dripping a bit of pee he managed to pass it  ). Well the vet says its from feeding hay and grain......... what the heck are my sheep supposed to eat until the grass comes in I asked them and just got a "I dunno....."

So the plan is now to still feed their regular amount of hay(about 4-5 flakes twice a day for a herd of 7) and instead of the 5 gal bucket of grain go with the 5 gal bucket full of beet pulp(soaked) with a 4 cup scoop of grain mixed in. Would that be alright ? 

These are Mouflon and American Blackbellies and mainly lactating ewes and at the moment heavily shedding rams that look like they were attacked by a mad shearer . With the amount of grain and hay they receive they are just about perfect in weight and shape for a ABB/Moufs, could probably use another 5-10 additional pounds per sheep to be perfect. Only fat one in the herd is the katahdinXdorper..... she rolls on this diet......

Anyways, enough of this waaaaaay too long a story.....

Beet Pulp- good, bad or what?

Thanks in advance,
Anna


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## dwbonfire (Apr 15, 2011)

im curious to see, i have horses and feed beet pulp and im getting my sheep tomorrow!


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## aggieterpkatie (Apr 16, 2011)

I wouldn't see why beet pulp would be bad for sheep. You may want to soak it first.  

Is your vet a livestock vet?  Feeding grain to rams is VERY common and I've never heard of anyone having kidney stone problems in their rams.  What kind of feed was it?  Specific to sheep?  What kind of hay are they on?

And can you try to put your rams on a really good hay and just leave out the grain? They should be able to keep conditioned on hay only, unless it's breeding season and then they may need a little more feed.

Glad the ram is ok though.


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## patandchickens (Apr 16, 2011)

Are you sure he said kidney stones rather than urinary calculi (stones/crystals in the urethra). The latter being something that, I have no personal experience with it obviously, but books certainly talk about rams and wethers getting UC, same as male goats.

I have never heard of grass hay being blamed for UC though (grain, yes), so unless grass hay or a 'light' mix is unavailable in your area, I'd think that'd be reasonable? Also did your vet say anything about feeding ammonium chloride to reduce the chances of a recurrence. Again, no personal experience here but that's what the sheep books say.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## boothcreek (Apr 16, 2011)

I only feed soaked beet bulp anyways, my sheep are too greedy when eating to NOT choke on it if its dry.....

My Vet is a everything vet from horse, cow to dogs and cats, although not very many sheep breeder around so they are rather new to her and she just goes by the text books. According to her urinary calculi is the proper/medical term for kidney stones, so the same thing both are a mineral build up that gets stuck causing irritation and possibly death.

We feed high % alfalfa hay since even solely on that they can't keep good body condition, at least at the end of the winter they go through a really tough to keep phase(exept for that katXdorper, she can live from looking at it alone  ). 
Since we breed horses that are not easy keepers thats the only hay we buy.
I asked my Vet about the ammonium chloride but she wont prescribe it unless the sheep has gone through a surgery etc to remove the current blockage and then its used for preventative measure and dissolve whatever's left. So thats not much help.

The grain is oats + barley with 10% corn and molasses and they always done great on it. 
All we can get is lamb starter and no matter how much of that I feed they never look good on it. So now they get grain and a mineral lick with free ranging in the summer and thats worked so far until Jasons problem.

Jason did manage to almost break my arm when it got hooked in his horn and the towl fell of his eyes...... bladder about to burst but lets the take the human for a drag through the pen regardless. Ouch. 

Anyhow, tried the beet bulb this am and they LOVE it. Even my extremely shy and spooky Mouflon Ewe dared to eat while I was still in sight (and that almost never happens).


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## Bossroo (Apr 18, 2011)

After I weaned my purebred Suffolk ram lambs ( about 30 at a time) raised  out on pasture, then in the fall I braught them in to a corral and barn. I fed them all that they could eat high quality alfalfa hay plus a ration of  corn, oats, barley, and beet pulp mix twice a day to get them ready for the yearling ram sales. Never had a problem. Also, at UCD, we had a herd of over 100 ( starting at 7 months old through 5 years of age) rams of different breeds for sexual behavior, hormone  and semen quality studies for 5 years. We also had a 200 head ewe herd. They were housed in dry lots with open shed roof covered feed/ shade areas and limited access to  Irrigated pastures of grass/ clover during late winter/spring and sudan grass in summer. They were fed high quality alfalfa hay. Those in poorer body condition we also added a small amount of a  mixture of corn, oats, barley with beet pulp. No problems noted. If the Vet will not recommend use of medication to clear up any problem before performing surgery ... this Vet. is looking out for her pocketbook, not yours. The bill for surgery would be several times over what the ram is worth. If it was me, I would make  my sheep smile from ear to ear before I allowed a Vet to perform any surgery on it. I would find a new Vet.  Also, you got a good lesson as to another reason why I prefer a polled breed of sheep. Horns may look nice, but not so nice for your well being.


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## patandchickens (Apr 18, 2011)

I thought ammonium chloride was pretty widely available from feedstores and such, no prescription?? (e.t.a. -- it is. If your feedstore doesn't stock it, Jeffers and probably a buncha other places have it http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ammonium-chloride/camid/liv/cp/AX-AN/ )

Is it possible the ram is not drinking enough water. Sheep seem to be bizarrely picky about water, if it isn't a fresh mountain stream or a bottle of Evian they are suspicious and they will turn up their noses at a day-old or slightly-flavored bucket that any other normal stock animal would suck right down with no questions asked. Perhaps make sure he has a brand-spankin'-new freshly-scrubbed bucket of water every morning, and enough loose minerals to give him incentive to drink well?

Pat


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## goodhors (Apr 18, 2011)

You may want to get with your Extension Office to talk about feed rations.  They work with the Land Grant College in your State to keep Agricultural things running smoothly.  Here in Michigan, that would be Michigan State University (NOT University of Michigan), and they have PLENTY of folks to work out helping the farm folks.

Testing your home-grown hay, each cutting, will determine what nutrients are in it that will help or harm the sheep.  The College should be able to test hay for you.  Then you need to learn how to read the results.  I know Alfalfa hay is very rich in Calcium for horses, needs to be balanced to get in Potassium, Phosphorus or horses can develop problems.   Sheep would probably need DIFFERENT amounts of nutrients than horses, have different needs, to help them make best use of your hay.  Maybe just adding some minerals, or mixing hays would work.

Without PROPER testing procedures for hay, you actually don't know what you are feeding the sheep.  Then to add in oats, barley, some corn, you may be helping or hindering the sheep.  Your diet SOUNDS good, but obviously is not what the sheep NEED or they would be in better body condition.  There are many factors in each growing area, that need to be dealt with, which might not be what MY area has.

Getting the information you need first, will allow you to make choices in diet changes for the sheep.  You can then get a better return for your feed dollars, maybe even feed less, but have better looking sheep come spring.  Alfalfa high calcium might be part of the problem with your ram.  Asking questions over the phone at the College Vet School, could give you more information than you have now.  MSU has SHEEP SPECIALISTS, who breed, raise, sell sheep to learn how commercial breeders can feed efficiently, get better conception rates, prevent health issues from wrong feeding programs.   Your more local College Sheep folks will have a better handle on local issues in your area, than calling people far away, even if they are VERY good.

Your State Extension Service is in place for people like you, to HELP with your livestock issues.  Your horses may also benefit, by suggestions of getting their teeth attended to.  Teeht are about the first thing we do if any horse doesn't stay good looking on our regular diet, not  needing extra rich feed and grains because of age or other health issues.  Then there are wormings, other feeds like the wet beet pulp, that can help horse stay nice looking easier than rich grain, pure Alfalfa for food, if they are not working animals.

Have to say that getting your hay tested will show you a LOT more than just looking at it will.  Hay can look wonderful, but be lacking needed nutrients or animal can't use the nutrients because some minerals are missing in his diet.  We have no Selenium in our local hay, none in the ground.  Have to supplement it every day, or animals are deficient and other problems occur.  Out west some of the ground is over productive in minerals, so animals have too much, can't use it and have poor reactions if that doesn't get balanced out with other feed in a program.

So call the Extension folks and get some help with your rations for both sheep and horses.  Your diet sounds good, but hay can vary a great deal between locations, so something needs much deeper checking to find the basic issue causing the problems you name.


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## boothcreek (Apr 18, 2011)

Im in canada and we have no such thing as an extension office(we got the Canadian food inspection agency but thats it and asking them what to feed lifestock in a hobby farm setting is pointless). As for the hay its from a tested source a province over, certified organic as well. Same source as my friend uses for her sheep and hers are butterballs and have no issues. This is the best hay we have had in the 10 yrs we have been here.

In Canada Ammonium chloride is a prescribtion medication. And all 3 local vets that do livestock wouldn't prescribe it without extensive testing and exploratory/fixing surgery. It amazes me how the US has soooo many meds for livestock available over the counter, we get nothin other then watersoluable vitamins at feed stores maybe the vitaminXantibiotic premix for day old chicks in some too. Too much offlabel use that the gov doesn't trust. Can't even buy ivomec without in detail telling the vet how I will use it and on what animal(and I use it for the cattle, sheep and chickens and I better not mention the chickens or I wont get it).

As for water, my sheep rather drink out of mud puddles then the water buckets.... go figure. Refill the waterbucket they sniff it and give me "what the heck is this" look and go to the old green mucky puddle to drink. Must like flavoured water. 

My sheep will be off of hay in a couple weeks hopefully anyways, since by then we got some grass come in and I can free range them again. Mouflon do really great on Pine needles too. They looked great all winter until I put them on lock-up for stripping all the decorative pine trees and firs in the garden. Maybe Needle trees are the key!


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## freemotion (Apr 18, 2011)

There is an interesting article on growing and feeding mangels....fodder beets....to sheep in the online Sheep Journal site.  That might be helpful, since beet pulp is basically dried beets.


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## goodhors (Apr 18, 2011)

Sorry about your location!  I know the Extension Service has been really helpful to many folks here.

Can you get the test results from the hay seller, maybe a copy to have for checking against other feed products?  My point was that without knowing test result specifics in the hay, you don't know the "contents" inside it.

Here is a site with information for feeding sheep in Virginia.  You will notice how the protein levels will vary in hay, and this is where hay test results aid you in decisions.

http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/410/410-853/410-853.html

This also had information, but you had to do your own figuring
to make information suited to your setup.

http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/410/410-853/410-853.html

And lastly, all beet pulp is not equal.  The dried beet pulp is made from Sugar Beets, with sugar pressed out.  No mangels or other beets involved.  The feed sack tag should have the information related to feed values to use in your figuring of quantities needed for the sheep.

Shredding of mangels could be a good feed I believe, though I would have no idea of feed values.  No mangels available here.  Doing shredding in quantities for a flock could be difficult without a machine.  Maybe just fed as a treat.  Have never heard of them dried as a feed for any animal.  They are used as a historical feedstuff, just not real common.


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## boothcreek (Apr 18, 2011)

The tag on our beetbulp only says "Beetpulp"(with the quotation marks too!) no nutritional values or nothin! The clerk at the feed store even tried to google nutritional value of beet pulp from the company on the store pc and found nada. 

We use to have a copy of the hay values. I think we chucked them last year.
Gotta ask my mother if she knows if they are just filed away REALLY well or thrown out.


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## pairadice (Apr 22, 2011)

I don't know about beet pulp for sheep.  I know many horse people use it.  I can tell you it's not considered a good ingredient (just a filler) in dog food.  I sure would like to see what people think about it for sheep.


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## Mo's palominos (Apr 22, 2011)

I don't know if all beetpulp is created but the bag I have says    Crude protien Not less than 6%.   Crude fat not less than .3%    Crude fiber not less than 22%    Total digestible nutrients 65%. Then it goes on to compare it to lots of other feed stuff. And even gives feeding suggestions.


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## Hillsvale (Aug 18, 2011)

boothcreek said:
			
		

> Im in canada and we have no such thing as an extension office(we got the Canadian food inspection agency but thats it and asking them what to feed lifestock in a hobby farm setting is pointless). As for the hay its from a tested source a province over, certified organic as well. Same source as my friend uses for her sheep and hers are butterballs and have no issues. This is the best hay we have had in the 10 yrs we have been here.
> 
> In Canada Ammonium chloride is a prescribtion medication. And all 3 local vets that do livestock wouldn't prescribe it without extensive testing and exploratory/fixing surgery. It amazes me how the US has soooo many meds for livestock available over the counter, we get nothin other then watersoluable vitamins at feed stores maybe the vitaminXantibiotic premix for day old chicks in some too. Too much offlabel use that the gov doesn't trust. Can't even buy ivomec without in detail telling the vet how I will use it and on what animal(and I use it for the cattle, sheep and chickens and I better not mention the chickens or I wont get it).
> 
> ...


Funny, we can get pretty much whatever we want at the feed store... they all have a different names than in the states though.


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