# How do you find hay that hasn't been sprayed?



## mama24 (Apr 22, 2012)

I haven't seen any anywhere around here. Do you just call everyone who advertises hay for sale ans ask if they've sprayed?


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## marliah (Apr 22, 2012)

The person we use for hay tries to live organically so I trust his hay, we actually did ask around some. The people we were considering first used lots of sprays so we looked until we found our hay guy now. When you find a good hay person stick with them


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## DonnaBelle (Apr 22, 2012)

What do you mean "sprayed"?

People here "fertilize" with nitrogen, if they can afford it.

Sprayed with what??

DonnaBelle


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 8, 2012)

*Probably pesticides/ fertilizers and other chemicals... I have no idea where to find organic hay, I don't really think it's commercially available yet.*


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## that's*satyrical (May 8, 2012)

Just wondering why would hay need pesticides??? I have never seen grass eaten by bugs to the point where it would affect it negatively at all... It really wouldn't need nitrogen either since there is always a little bit of hay left behind after they bale it to go back into the soil & add nitrogen.


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## secuono (May 8, 2012)

Spraying hay, that's different. Never seen that being done. A neighbor has lots of land and he hays it just to get it out of the way...or something. Maybe he sells it, but there's so much packed in the hay barn and old. I guess it's sold as cow hay. 
I wouldn't see why someone would spend the extra cash on pesticides for hay, seems like a waste unless the area has bad problems. 

Just call and ask, doesn't hurt any.


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## Royd Wood (May 8, 2012)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> What do you mean "sprayed"?
> 
> People here "fertilize" with nitrogen, if they can afford it.
> 
> ...


The op I think is refering to a form of acid which is used to prevent mould. This is used when the weather is changing (rain coming) and the hay is not quite ready so by using the acid it allows the hay to be bailed. You can smell it in the hay and animals tend to drink more water when fed treated hay. No expert here but I think they claim its all natural ???????


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## aggieterpkatie (May 8, 2012)

The hay that's sprayed to prevent mold is sprayed with propionic acid.  Different people have different opinions on it, but propionic acid is produced in the rumens of animals, so I personally wouldn't have a problem feeding it. 

The only way to know is to ask the seller.  Some insect pests can damage hay fields, especially alfalfa.  Others may spray herbicides for broad leaf weed control.  You'll just have to keep calling around and asking.


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## mama24 (May 8, 2012)

Most of the hay I see for sale around here says it's been sprayed for weeds. Don't really want that going into my goats, and then into their milk and into my kids.  Please don't try to argue with me that it's perfectly safe, that's all propaganda by the advertising side of the producers of these chemicals, not from the people who actually work in the lab. I am a chemist, I worked in the herbicides group at one of the top 3 agrochemical companies for a while. I know how toxic this stuff is. It's not nearly as benign as the marketing people would like everyone to believe.


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## goodhors (May 8, 2012)

We have fed the proprionic acid sprayed hay, horses loved it.  Lambs got a tiny bit in the spring after purchase.
Husband says the barn smells like pickles, but I don't have his sharp nose for sniffing things.
We found that the hay stayed MUCH greener, we needed to feed less quantity, to keep the animals at their
same weight over winter.  

So our times using this kind of hay were very good, and I would recommend it as a good animal feed.  The 
end of the pile looked as good as when we brought it into the barn.  We didn't have a single moldy bale from
those loads of hay.  Talking about at least 1200 bales during a couple years.

Downsides are the acid (plus the well preserved vitamins! Ha Ha) make the bales weigh A LOT.  So make sure
the farmer is baling them in smaller sizes, so you can manage them.  We bought from that guy for years, with
those bale sizes weighing about 50#.  With the spray, most were at LEAST 70#.  Guess the value with feeding 
less, heavier bales is a plus, since the hay does last longer.  And there was very little wasted, horses hunted down
all the good tasting leaves outside.

The other thing is that you CANNOT store the acid cured hay so it touches plain hay.  The acid will make the other
stuff mold.  We hung a big tarp down from beam to floor, between the two kinds of hay in our pole barn.  The 
tarp prevented the "touching" of hay bales, so we had no mold issues in either kind of hay while stored.

I would absolutely buy acid cured hay again if it was offered to us.

Our farmer said he could only have gotten his hay crop up using the spray.  There wasn't time enough between 
rain storms those years, to let it dry well.  Other farmers just didn't get their hay up at all.  Bad years for hay suppliers.
Except for costing a bit more to cover costs, half killing ourselves to move the stuff, there were no downsides to using the 
acid cured hay for us.


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## mama24 (May 8, 2012)

Acid cured hay is not the same thing as hay sprayed with herbicides.  I don't know much about the acid curing. Will have to look that up. Thanks!


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## aggieterpkatie (May 8, 2012)

mama24 said:
			
		

> Please don't try to argue with me that it's perfectly safe,


Who was trying to argue with you about it?


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## mama24 (May 9, 2012)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> mama24 said:
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> ...


Well, nobody here, but I almost always get into arguments with people who claim that not only are herbicides perfectly safe, but that they aren't even detectable in the finished product...


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## aggieterpkatie (May 9, 2012)

mama24 said:
			
		

> aggieterpkatie said:
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> ...


Oh ok, I thought you mistook my post as an argument.


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## marliah (May 9, 2012)

mama24 said:
			
		

> Most of the hay I see for sale around here says it's been sprayed for weeds. Don't really want that going into my goats, and then into their milk and into my kids.  Please don't try to argue with me that it's perfectly safe, that's all propaganda by the advertising side of the producers of these chemicals, not from the people who actually work in the lab. I am a chemist, I worked in the herbicides group at one of the top 3 agrochemical companies for a while. I know how toxic this stuff is. It's not nearly as benign as the marketing people would like everyone to believe.


Yikes really? I wouldn't buy any that's been sprayed for weeds either. Roundup is dangerous and IMO the killer of bees too :/ I certainly wouldn't touch it either. There must be someone local to you who can sell you real hay. Have you tried craigslist or even posting a wanted ad there?


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## mama24 (May 24, 2012)

Thanks everyone! There was an ad on CL last week. They're waiting for better weather, but will have fresh cut non sprayed hay for sale as soon as the weather cooperates!


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## happyvagabonds (Jun 15, 2012)

i was just semi-educated in this the other day, let's see if i can remember this correctly...

i feed my goats straight alfalfa. there are only 2 haymen in this region who are able to grow alfalfa. one grows 'round-up ready' hay, the other does not. 

a crop of alfalfa can last as long as 8 or 9 years. the older it is, the less nutritious. 

the 'round-up ready' alfalfa is GMO... basically... it is selectively propagated so that it is not susceptible to Round-up spray. (ie: they plant 10 plants and spray them all with Round-up... if one does not die, this is the mother plant and this plant is used to produce more like it) this actually allows the farmer to use LESS chemicals on the field. my former hayman did not use 'round-up ready' hay and had to use 2 different herbicides to keep his alfalfa fields weed free. if they don't spray, it would be impossible to keep weeds from overtaking their fields (unless someone walks the fields and physically hand-picks and weeds found!). i believe this would be true for any crop. 

i believe that he only has to spray for insect control once a year and likewise with the Round-up. 

i just bought my hay for the month and was informed that this cutting has not been sprayed with insecticide or herbicide. 

the previous month (i believe) had been sprayed with herbicide. the plants are sprayed when they are less than 3 inches tall. much like withholding times for worming and antibiotics, by the time the alfalfa has grown enough to be cut and cured, the withholding period is long past and the hay is safe for consumption. 

i hope this helps and is somewhat accurate! )


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## mama24 (Jun 28, 2012)

That might be what they tell you, but the herbicides persist in the soil and plants for years, and I do not believe it is safe or healthy. Herbicides are not nearly as toxic to mammals as pesticides, though. I worked as a chemist (I have a B.S. in chem from Penn State) for a short time (8 mos) in the herbicides lab at one of the big 3 ag chem companies. I have 4 young kids, that's the only reason I'm still not working there, it was too much for me to work full-time and still have the house, kids, animals, etc, I had to make a choice. They are a good company to work for, even if I don't ethically agree with what their marketing people tell people. I do still use glyphosate on poison ivy and other noxious weeks around my property, but I will not buy hay or other feed for my kids or my animals that has been sprayed with pesticides. I try to avoid GMO as well, though it's hard when there aren't many local choices for animal feeds. I did find a local supplier of organic alfalfa and mixed feeds, but they have a very large minimum order. They push approval for release on new GMO's too soon without enough research on their safety, imo. And also I don't think GMO's are meeting what we were promised. They have not greatly improved crop yields, and they have not in any way reduced herbicide and pesticide use. In fact, I think chemical use has more than doubled for the same yield, terrible for the environment! It's time to get back to organic and sustainable agriculture.

I did finally get hay from the person on Craigslist. It's beautiful, full of nice grass and clover, smells wonderful. There are a few weeds, mostly plantain, but since my goats love to eat those anyway, I couldn't be happier. This hay is horse quality, imo. I'm very happy with it. I really don't understand the need for completely weed free hay. This hay has never been sprayed and it's just like the stuff we fed horses when I was a kid. Nicer even.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jun 28, 2012)

*I just found this by us... 


http://www.oasis-organics.com/organic-produce/organic-alfalfa-hay/


maybe you have something similar where you are... google is a girls best friend!*


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