# Necropsy - no photos - help



## Laodicia (May 14, 2017)

I went to take some chicks to my sister yesterday and to possibly help her butcher 2 of her very old hens. 1 was an ISA brown that was about 5 years old. I looked at the 2 birds before deciding if we were going to butcher them or not. The ISA was outside under the raised coop gasping for breath. she had been laying regularly but soft shelled eggs up until a week and a half ago. When I picked her up her abdomin was very full, distended and round. she didn't seem to have a fever her comb and wattles were still a good red color. She came over immediately for treats with all the other chickens which we put out to catch her.

after we had killed and removed feathers it was obvious something was very wrong with her. Her abdomin was completely swelled out and some of her internal parts of her cloaca had come out her vent. i cut back the skin of the abdomin and there was a clear mass with red veins on it. I pierced it and clear fluid ran out completly draining the abdomin to a normal size. there was only a hole in this bag i did not exert any pressure. an egg yolk and several "bags" what looked like egg white in membrane but not yolk inside came out of the hole with the liquid.

inside I have butchered around 30 birds at this point and haven't come across this before. the intestines were completly white stiff and rubbery. the liver was brown and fell apart just by gently movement. the heart had small white spots in the red tissue. she was still producing normal looking yolks there didn't seem to be a blockage in her reproductive system. gizzard looked normal on the outside as did the gall bladder. lungs looked healthy. Eyes looked normal(while she was alive) I didn't look at anything else. I was too grossed out by the texture of the intestines.

the only other things I can think of that might be of note: the other hen we butchered approximately 3 years old an easter egger who hadn't been laying for over a year also had a brown liver and she did seem to have a blockage in her reproductive system. recently she has lost 2 chickens, 1 which was at the top of the pecking order who always dumped the water out, got itself wet in the winter and the next day the head feathers seemed to be slicked back possibly from being pecked at and the hen was walking in circles didnt seem to be able to control its movements (culled) and a few days later a langshan hen was found dead head and neck bruised and feathers missing (assuming pecked to death) I did a necropsy on the langshan and there were no tumors. the only thing I found off was there was a lot of mucous in the mouth.

...... She's worried about mareks but I think it might just be cancer from it being such an old chicken and the breed.????

im not sure if i can but ill try to upload a video of her breathing when i found her. eta: video file is too large.


----------



## casportpony (May 14, 2017)

Can you upload the video to YouTube or Vimeo and post the link?


----------



## Laodicia (May 14, 2017)

I've never done a YouTube video before so hopefully this link works.


----------



## casportpony (May 14, 2017)

Did you get any pictures or video of the necropsy?


----------



## casportpony (May 14, 2017)

Check out the necropsy pictures here:
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/967329/what-is-this


----------



## Laodicia (May 14, 2017)

No I didn't my hand were dirty from butchering the EE and my sisters hands were dirty too from stripping the feathers. We were watching 5 kids together too so in a bit of a rush to get it done. The texture of the intestines I would say was like hardened silicone. It was not flexible and didn't change shape under pressure. An was very white. I couldn't open them up to spread them out they were stiff and wrapped together. The reproductive tract looked normal was soft and thin like normal


----------



## casportpony (May 14, 2017)




----------



## Laodicia (May 14, 2017)

casportpony said:


> Check out the necropsy pictures here:
> http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/967329/what-is-this


your post on this thread that has the "pathology of older laying hens" photo the picture for fig. 10 looks like what the intestines looked like.


----------



## Laodicia (May 14, 2017)

casportpony said:


>


she was swollen like this but the inside was dark just under the skin not really any fat layer, and upon puncturing it there was a clear to slightly yellow liquid. she hadn't lost any feathers before processing


----------



## Akrnaf2 (May 14, 2017)

Laodicia said:


> I went to take some chicks to my sister yesterday and to possibly help her butcher 2 of her very old hens. 1 was an ISA brown that was about 5 years old. I looked at the 2 birds before deciding if we were going to butcher them or not. The ISA was outside under the raised coop gasping for breath. she had been laying regularly but soft shelled eggs up until a week and a half ago. When I picked her up her abdomin was very full, distended and round. she didn't seem to have a fever her comb and wattles were still a good red color. She came over immediately for treats with all the other chickens which we put out to catch her.
> 
> after we had killed and removed feathers it was obvious something was very wrong with her. Her abdomin was completely swelled out and some of her internal parts of her cloaca had come out her vent. i cut back the skin of the abdomin and there was a clear mass with red veins on it. I pierced it and clear fluid ran out completly draining the abdomin to a normal size. there was only a hole in this bag i did not exert any pressure. an egg yolk and several "bags" what looked like egg white in membrane but not yolk inside came out of the hole with the liquid.
> 
> ...


Ascites almost for sure
Reed this
http://www.msdvetmanual.com/poultry/miscellaneous-conditions-of-poultry/ascites-syndrome-in-poultry


----------



## casportpony (May 14, 2017)

Laodicia said:


> your post on this thread that has the "pathology of older laying hens" photo the picture for fig. 10 looks like what the intestines looked like.


Sounds like ascites (fluid in belly) from some type of cancer maybe. Sorry for your loss.


----------



## Laodicia (May 14, 2017)

casportpony said:


> Sounds like ascites (fluid in belly) from some type of cancer maybe. Sorry for your loss.


Thank you :/
I have looked through this site at almost all of the different poultry problems: http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publi...tension-ascitis-syndrome-in-broiler-chickens/

the ascitis seems accurate. except aside from the white spot discoloration the heart looked normal.

this site: http://www.cresa.cat/blogs/sesc/les...es-a-la-cavitat-abdominal-duna-truja/?lang=en
though it is a picture of pig insides. the fourth picture the lumps that are on this reproductive tract are exactly like what I saw, but I was sure it was intestine.... I was likely just cancer she was very old.
 Thanks for your help


----------



## AngieNPeeps (May 14, 2017)

Laodicia said:


> Thank you :/
> I have looked through this site at almost all of the different poultry problems: http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publi...tension-ascitis-syndrome-in-broiler-chickens/
> 
> the ascitis seems accurate. except aside from the white spot discoloration the heart looked normal.
> ...




Ascities is from liver damage/ failure, basically. Since she mentioned the frail liver, I am not surprised to hear of ascities - fluid in the peritoneal cavity. 

Whatever the cause of the cysts , I expect there were toxins built up and liver failure was occurring [which came first? Idk this disease]. The heavy breathing (so obvious it wasn't respiratory in your pic, as there was no gaping mouth) from the pressure against the diaphragm. --I have patients that we send for paracentesis and I'm familiar with the cycles.


----------



## casportpony (May 14, 2017)

Chickens don't have diaphragms, so the heavy breathing was most likely from the fluid pressing on the various organs.


----------



## Laodicia (May 14, 2017)

casportpony said:


> Chickens don't have diaphragms, so the heavy breathing was most likely from the fluid pressing on the various organs.


I assumed that it was just pressure from the liquid after we realized it was there


----------



## casportpony (May 14, 2017)

Laodicia said:


> I assumed that it was just pressure from the liquid after we realized it was there


Yeah, and some will get so bad that they can hardly walk and they will do open mouth breathing.  just had to euthanize a turkey that was doing that.


----------



## Laodicia (May 14, 2017)

casportpony said:


> Yeah, and some will get so bad that they can hardly walk and they will do open mouth breathing.  just had to euthanize a turkey that was doing that.


----------



## aart (May 14, 2017)

Ascites can happen with many different organ diseases.

Great references @casportpony !


----------



## AngieNPeeps (May 14, 2017)

casportpony said:


> Chickens don't have diaphragms, so the heavy breathing was most likely from the fluid pressing on the various organs.



You are right!  Totally nuts-- regardless, same idea... the diaphragm for us/ for them it's compressing and reducing expansion of lungs. But, even with the liver issue alone, seems likely metabolic acidosis and trying to blow off CO2 with the heavy breathing. Very interesting point-- thanks for bringing it to my attention... I think ribs /diaphragm.


----------



## AngieNPeeps (May 14, 2017)

Laodicia said:


> Thank you :/
> I have looked through this site at almost all of the different poultry problems: http://www.thepoultrysite.com/publi...tension-ascitis-syndrome-in-broiler-chickens/
> 
> the ascitis seems accurate. except aside from the white spot discoloration the heart looked normal.
> ...



Sorry you have had to deal with this. Thank you for sharing your experience so we can be aware, too.


----------



## casportpony (May 14, 2017)

aart said:


> Ascites can happen with many different organ diseases.
> 
> Great references @casportpony !


Thanks, I love finding good links.  Quite right the different causes... Oh, the stories I could tell you.  most recent ascites was in the turkey with oviduct cancer, and have seen it in a few others with oviduct cancer, one of which was necropsied by UC Davis. Have also seen it in hens with EYP, and in one young male peachick. Cause of his ascites was a heart defect.


----------



## AngieNPeeps (May 14, 2017)

casportpony said:


> Thanks, I love finding good links.  Quite right the different causes... Oh, the stories I could tell you.  most recent ascites was in the turkey with oviduct cancer, and have seen it in a few others with oviduct cancer, one of which was necropsied by UC Davis. Have also seen it in hens with EYP, and in one young male peachick. Cause of his ascites was a heart defect.



EYP?


----------



## casportpony (May 14, 2017)

Egg yolk peritonitis.


----------



## Wickedchicken6 (May 15, 2017)

...so unfortunate.


----------

