# Do first freshners always have singles?



## GLENMAR (Feb 17, 2013)

All 3 of my FF does had single bucklings.    What are the chances they will have twins next time?
Sure would be nice to keep a doeling. I rebred Stella for a 6-30 freshning. Her first buckling was born last July.


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## Missy (Feb 17, 2013)

Not all FF have singles, but from where I am sitting, it seems very common. Many people I kow all had singles the first time. Last year I had 2 does who were FF both had single bucklings, I also had a 3rd doe who I got pregnant who had twins, It is up in the air to me if she was a first freshener or not as I was told she had aborted about a month into her pregnancy, so if she would have carried to term, would she also have only had a singleton? Anyways, I believe your chances of more than one next time are really good.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 17, 2013)

I sure hope you have better luck. 
Is that common to Nubians?
All our FF have had twins, and one had trips. But they are different breeds than yours.

If it keeps happening I would look at getting the bucks sperm count checked. If it was the girls with the problem, you wouldn't see it consistently through all your does, that would be a buck problem.


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## jodief100 (Feb 17, 2013)

I have read some research out of Oklahoma and it boils down to this.  Statistically, a doe of any breed is more likely to have a single her first time than any other time.  If she has twins or more at the first kidding she is more likely to have a single the second time.  After that twins are the norm.  So they recommend you expect 3 kids from the first two kiddings.  After that if she still has singles AND your buck is not the problem, you should cull her.


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## ksj0225 (Feb 17, 2013)

From my little experience:  
Jaz: 1st year: twins, 2nd: single, 3rd: single
Mack: 1st: twins, 2nd: triplets, 3rd: twins
(jaz and mack are twin sisters)

My first timers from last year 2 had singles 1 had twins, they are still pregnant this year.
We breed late.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 17, 2013)

The first time my goats have kidded it was twins for two of them and triplets for the other doe.


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## GLENMAR (Feb 17, 2013)

Interesting.....


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 17, 2013)

In my experience and in talking to other ND owners, it is more common in a first freshener.   I bet you will have multiples next time.


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## meme (Feb 17, 2013)

Rachel is an FF, and according to the ultrasound, she is pregnant with twins.  She will be two when she kids though, if age makes a difference.


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## TigerLily Trail Ranch (Feb 17, 2013)

Both my girls were FFs. One is a PB pygmy & the other a pygmy mix. Both had twin bucklings & may or may not be carrying twins again this year.


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## SheepGirl (Feb 17, 2013)

Not goats, but with sheep, most of our ewes have singles the first time. Then they have twins the next time and nearly every time after. We've only had one ewe have twins her first time, but she was a yearling or 2 yrs old when she was bred for the first time. Her next time she had triplets, and the third time she had a 21 lb single ewe lamb. 

She and the other sheep were taken to the auction because my neighbor was moving, so she was probably turned into mutton sausage. She was a very ugly sheep but she was a great momma!


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## GLENMAR (Feb 17, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> In my experience and in talking to other ND owners, it is more common in a first freshener.   I bet you will have multiples next time.


Those ND's have litters!!


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## Kitsara (Feb 17, 2013)

Do you know if your does were single's or twins? I've been told that single's have a higher percentage of having single's themselves. My Nubian/Oberhasli had twins her first time and was a twin herself. Still waiting on her 2nd go round. She's not due till April.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 17, 2013)

GLENMAR said:
			
		

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  Yeah, they do that a lot.   As many as 6 I have heard but never known any that actually have had that many.  Still more common to have a single on the first time out if a doe is going to do that.


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## babsbag (Feb 17, 2013)

I have Alpines and out of 7 ff only 2 of them had singles. They rest were twins. One had a single her first year and triplets the next and the other had twins the next two years.

My boers were all ff last year and one had triplets and the other two had twins.


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## RainySunday (Feb 17, 2013)

I'll have more info to add soon!  We have 3 FF due in March-early April.  Our only other FF had a single last year (and triplets her second time).


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 17, 2013)

I have ND's and my experience with 6 first freshners, 4 had singles 2 had twins.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Feb 17, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

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*
I've seen two ND's lately that had 5.  




I'll have to update on this thread as soon as my FF has her babies to see how many she has! She's a purebred Nubian and will be 2 years old next month.*


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 18, 2013)

In my experience singles are very genetic. We rarely have singles.  However, this year we did  have more singles, and we think it was form the heat, but it wasn't just our yearlings. It was one yearling and 3 does that were 4 or 5 years old.  Two of the 4 or 5 year old does had never had a single, one of them had a single last year as well.  Normally all my yearlings  have twins and I am just as likely to have triplets from my yearlings as I would have a single.
  I have one blood line that the dam had singles the first two times  and the doe I kept from her had singles the first two times. 

Last year I had 6  yearlings kid and one of the 6 had a single, the rest had twins.  The one that had a single was accidently bred from the buck jumping the fence and I think he bred her too late in her heat cycle resulting in just one kid.  She had twins this year.  
the year before that I had 4 yearlings kid and they had a set of triplets, two sets of twins and a single.  

I have 4 more yearlings left to kid this year, they are due end of March and end of April.  One looks to be possibley carrying a single, she is not very big or she is due later than I think she is.  


In your case I would wonder about the  heat.  I have talked to other farms who said their numbers are also down this year.   It may have paid for us to breed a little later last year so it would have been cooler for the bucks.  

By the way,  all my singles were also bucks.  What is up with that?????  I feel your frustration, if they are going to give us a single make it a doe.  At least mine can be used for fair project, I am sure it is even more frustrating being in the dairy industry.


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## lilhill (Feb 18, 2013)

My FF Doe's thus far have had twins or triplets.  Then my 3 year old had quintuplets.


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## 2goats8kids (Feb 18, 2013)

Each of my FF's had singles. One of the mamas came from a litter of four, one from a litter of triplets.

I still wonder if I had given Bo-Se before breeding if they'd have had more.


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 18, 2013)

2goats8kids said:
			
		

> Each of my FF's had singles. One of the mamas came from a litter of four, one from a litter of triplets.
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> I still wonder if I had given Bo-Se before breeding if they'd have had more.


I don't know.  Ours get an annual selenium injection but not timed with breeding, just on our annual health check and rabies vaccination.

 Our first experience two FF's had singles, the other had twins.  All had twins the second time.  

Someone said it was genetic.  Maybe, maybe not.  One of my first FF's that had a single, her daughter had twins her FF.

I know someone who had a FF have a single, and that daughter had triplets her first time.


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## meme (Feb 18, 2013)

I forgot to mention, Rachel is a twin (and she is having twins), but her twin sister had a single.


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## rinksgi (Feb 19, 2013)

This very interesting. I have been wondering about the genetics of multiples. I have a buck who was one of 4 born. His mother(a Nubian) always kids 4 or 5. I plan to breed him to my Nubian, who had twins last year and is due to kid in a few weeks. We'll see next year how much influence he has.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 19, 2013)

rinksgi said:
			
		

> This very interesting. I have been wondering about the genetics of multiples. I have a buck who was one of 4 born. His mother(a Nubian) always kids 4 or 5. I plan to breed him to my Nubian, who had twins last year and is due to kid in a few weeks. We'll see next year how much influence he has.


He has basically no influence on the number of kids---the number of kids can't be greater than the number of eggs releases by the doe.   Each time a buck ejaculates, he releases millions of sperm but if there is only one egg to be fertilized, there is only one egg to be fertilized.  And if the doe does not carry to term all of the eggs fertilized, that still has nothing to do with the buck's swimmers.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 19, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

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the only way he could influence it is if he is virtually steril from a really really hot summer or some other health issue.  But for the most part the buck has no influence on the number of kids. The amount of eggs your doe produces is the bottom line. Her genetics, her health and her weight can all influence this. 
Rams normally have more of a problem with hot summers than bucks do, but I have heard of people having steril bucks from hot summers and endign up with a lot of open does or really low numbers.  If you don't have your bucks tested, then it is important to track if the does come back into heat after being bred. One doe coming back into heat isn't a pattern and may be the does problem, but several does coming back into heat after being bred woudl cetainly indicate a problem with the bucks.  

Breeding harnesses are great for aiding in tracking your does breeding progress. changing the color of the paint stick every week can really help as well.  We leave our does in for at etleast 21 to 25 days after we see them bred to make sure they don't come back into heat.


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## rebelINny (Feb 19, 2013)

Well in my experience with Alpines mine have primarily given me singles the first freshening. I've only had two does that gave me twins their ff and one was a alpine/nubian cross and the other a standard alpine. I am hoping that I get more multiple kids now that I am doing mini-alpines since the netherland dwarf genetics are in there. I have one ff this year but she is nearly 3 years old. I'm hoping she has twins 

Edited to add that my buck this year is one of triplets.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Feb 19, 2013)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

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x2


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