# Kicky Milker



## Windy Pond (Nov 20, 2009)

I am new to dairy goats an trying to learn to milk on a first time freshener.  She is 2, her baby is 8 wks.  She willingly hops onto the milking stand to get her grain.  She kicks like crazy when being milked.  I hobbled her so now she bucks.  I have been watching videos of people milking calm willing does.  Is this just temporary newbie behavior? What should I do to make her stop?


----------



## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 20, 2009)

can you have someone hold her????

when i was gone i gave my hubby instructions NOT to sneak up on our kicky milker but to 'announce' himself by patting her before her starting milking. 

when i started it also helped me to meditate on "i AM the boss goat. i AM the boss goat" so i wouldnt be nervous, so she wouldnt be nervous.

;-)

i'm sure there are other 'goat whisperers' that have suggestions

good luck!


----------



## freemotion (Nov 20, 2009)

Are you using the hobbles above her hocks?  Not down by her feet?  The hobbles should squeeze the Achilles tendon so she can't kick.  They are not like hobbles used years ago on horses so they couldn't wander too far off overnight on a cattle drive.

I never tried this, but someone told me to loop a bit of rope or twine around the belly, in front of the udder, and tie it to the wall so she can't move around comfortably.  Then she will (hopefully!)see pretty quickly that it actually feels good to get her udder emptied.


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 20, 2009)

I read this and thougt of you free:
_Patience may be a virtue, but laughter is the only way to survive goat milking. You can strive for the perfect fencing. You must aim for good nutrition. But, dont kid yourself. When it comes to milking, you do not get the last word.

When I decided to add milk goats to my backyard farm I envisioned pitchers of milk cooling in the fridge while cheddar rounds age in my cellar. Spirit, my first nanny, had other ideas. There is an old saying I just made up: "Dont expect instant gratification from your very first dairy goat lactation." Like dating, expecting nothing is the first step toward not being let down. Perseverance is the next step toward surviving goats with your sanity moderately intact.

Spirit proved mutinous in milking. Even with twins at her side, she had ample milk to share. Generosity was simply not her forte. However, like falling off a bike or getting thrown from your horse, when you find a goat leg lodged in your right ear, you must climb right back on.

To help other potential farmers deal with inevitable frustration, I have provided the following journal. It documents my first full month of milking Spirit. From this draw hope. There is light at the end of the nipple.

Day 1: Leashed goat runs around tie post kicking and bucking. Never got near the teat.

Day 2: Build "EZ One Hour Goat Milking Stand" from online instructions. Define five hours in hell.

Day 3: Adjust Goat Milking Stand so goats big fat head will fit through the stocks into the feed box.

Day 4: Adjust Goat Milking Stand so goats skinny little head will not retreat from feed box out through the stocks.

Day 5: Collect 3.5 tsp. milk from flailing goat on milking stand.

Day 6: Dido.

Day 7: Tether goats leg. Goat kicks loose in .3 seconds.

Day 8: Tether goats leg better. Goat kicks loose dumping over 3.5 tsp. of milk.

Day 9: Try new tethering technique. Collect entire ounce of milk. Goats effort to kick loose succeeds only after she sheds 3.5 tsp. of hair into the shot glass of milk.

Day 10: Go to store. Buy milk.

Day 11  14: Discouraged. Just squirt some milk straight onto the milking stand so that the apparently dwindling right teat stays active.

Day 15: Goat now standing still while I collect three ounces of milk. Then the cantankerous witch sticks her foot in it.

Day 16  18: Dido, dido and dido.

Day 19: Right teat has all but vanished.

Day 20: Right teat empty.

Day 21: Spirits legal team serves me with papers declaring her functional left teat off limits and for her babies only.

Day 22  23: Practice milking technique while coaxing droplets from withered right teat.

Day 24: Have mastered milking with right hand while my left hand holds the receptacle up, dodging the maniacal wenches attempts put her foot in the milk. Net bounty from flat tit approx 1.4 oz. Note: Goat still shedding.

Day 25-26: Milk rations slightly increasing. Goat and cottonwood trees now both shedding into the milk receptacle.

Day 27: Babies distract me by biting my shirt while I am milking. Spirits foot returns to the milk receptacle.

Day 28: Babies adamant about eating my clothes while I milk. I steal milk from their precious left teat.

Day 29: Babies try to distract me by eating my hair. I try to ignore them. Goat flinches. My foot avoider reflex overcompensates, hurling the milk directly inside my protective LASIK goggles. Startled by my French, both babies run off in opposite directions with my hair still in their mouths.

Day 30: And the beat goes on.

Day 31: Average daily yield now totals around 10 oz. Source: two milkings per day from 1.2 tits.

Remember, when the day comes, and it will, where you just walk up to your nanny and quickly squirt a little milk straight into your morning coffee then wander off sobbing, bear in mind with a little patience, all this can be yours. _


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 20, 2009)

From *Real Food Mama*

_Unless you have an incredibly patient goat and freakishly strong hands, you should be prepared to a) not be able to aim into the milk pail, resulting in milk all over you and the goat and b) have a bored goat. *A bored goat will want you to be done and will encourage you to finish by stepping in the pail and possibly even kicking in an attempt to get off the milk stand*. 

The first few times I milked my goat it took me upwards of 30 minutes. This morning the whole process took me less than 10. You will get faster, but chances are your goat will not get more patient, so try to keep things nice between the two of you._


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 20, 2009)

I found this on another forum: 

_You might try to have someone pick up a front leg while you are milking her. Also try the other side. Goats, and cows get used to being milked from one side or the other. Last year I had La Loca goat. I had a terrible time breaking her to milk. My experience has been that if you tie their leg back they can pull muscles in their hind quarters. So I put my stand against a fence, and put a rope from the front of the stand the length of her other side, and tied it off to the fence in the back. Wasn't long till she got better._


I want A goat. :/  (I can say "A" this time b/c I already have sheep to keep her company right?)



     a 
*GO*^*T*
Milk?


----------



## freemotion (Nov 20, 2009)

Wow, BBH, that first story sounds freakishly familiar..... Did someone spy on me and write everything down? 

You read all that and still want a goat????    You just have to be sure your goat gets copper and your sheeples don't.  You are clever enough, I am sure, to make sure that happens.  I would just separate them once a day so goatie gets her minerals, maybe in her own stall, that sheeples can't get to.

That longer story was hysterical.  Where did you find it?  Link, please.  I want more!

Oh, by the way, it gets easier if you persist.  I can milk a couple of quarts in maybe three minutes.  I am a one-handed milker, too, with one hand holding a quart canning jar and one milking, then I switch off when a hand gets tired.  It is also a great way to save the milk from Princess Muckfoot.  Easy to pour into the filter later, too, and goes right into the dishwasher.  I have no plans to get a stainless steel bucket when I can just carry more canning jars when I am milking more than one.  

Mya is very appreciative of produce bits in her feed.  Be sure to give your goat enough food to keep her occupied while you fumble around.  Soaked beet pulp is a great way to fill the feeder without giving your girl too much grain.  If she is not used to fresh foods, add chopped veggies gradually.  I can now get most of my chores done while waiting for Mya to finish her food after I milk her.  And I assure you, less than a year ago, I would get dehydrated twice a day from all the tears I shed.  And I can also swear in both English and French, with parents and grandparents who are French Canadian and of FC descent.  Merde!


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 20, 2009)

*MILK GOATS know your enemy* here ya go: http://www.farmmedley.com/article.aspx?id=8

(Yeah I remember reading about your first attempts. )


----------



## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 20, 2009)

there was a certain amount of crying when i first started milking. i think it was Miss P that helped me out. 

and yes a sense of humor is required!!!

we ended the summer with a swarm of hens and geese hanging around the milk stand, my favorite chick in my lap, and those little goaties didnt even bat an eye. be The Boss Goat!

but just wait until the barn cats get involved........


----------



## freemotion (Nov 20, 2009)

If Lola, our pet crippled chicken, is in the barn when I am milking, she comes over and asks for milk.  Boop-boop-boop! is what she says.  If I ignore her, she goes into my milking kit and pulls my little rags out and flings them around.  So cute.


----------



## Windy Pond (Nov 20, 2009)

Hey guys!  Thanks for all of the fun advice.  I read the goat journal that BBH posted on another website about 3 weeks ago and have experienced pretty much all of it.  I intend to be the boss goat, patient and persistant.  I did cry a little last week and decided to find some goaty friends, so, here I am.  Glad to know this is all part of the process.

Just got in from milking Fern (all my does are named after plants).  Yes, I do hobble her up above the hock to make sure she cant kick, but then she bucks.  So, in addition to hobble, I devised an contraption using bungees.  One bungee loosly around her hips and belly and the other around the milking stand, I connected the bungees and now she cant buck.  She didnt seem to mind and was actually a little better tonight.  I hope in a few days this will train her just to eat her grain and be good.  

Wish me luck!


----------



## freemotion (Nov 20, 2009)

(laughter in commisseration....)


----------



## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 20, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> (laughter in commisseration....)


same for me, friend... ugh!

a couple times my hubby came around the corner of the barn only to be narrowly missed by a hurled then-empty milk bucket and me having a total 'milking break down'

honestly it gets better. 

we also have some distraction techniques for hoof trimming which may work for milking - he'll stand in front of her and sing her a little song or tap her on the head or feed her shelled corn one kernel at a time....whatever will keep her attention away from me.

this also works for house cats when we have claw trimming day... you should see The Big Man singing Little Mo the 'one pink toe' song... its hilarious.....


----------



## freemotion (Nov 20, 2009)

Um, hey, Windy Pond, I think you owe us a picture of that bungee contraption in exchange for all the effort we put forth answering your question in such an entertaining way......please???


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 20, 2009)

By the way, I never said:


----------



## Windy Pond (Nov 20, 2009)

Hey New Goaty Friends!  Thanks so much for answering my questions and making me laugh!  I will perfect bungee contraption tomorrow and post pictures.  I used bungees so she can move, not feel trapped but train her to be still.  It seemed to work, time will tell.  Hopefully I'll stop doing this


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 20, 2009)

You can't have animals without ->  or


----------



## freemotion (Nov 20, 2009)

Or     sometimes at yourself, not the critters....

Let's not forget this one, especially the first time you see a buck in action:


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 20, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Or     sometimes at yourself, not the critters....
> 
> Let's not forget this one, especially the first time you see a buck in action:


  Are we talking about Mr. Stinky?


----------



## Windy Pond (Nov 20, 2009)

Thanks for the welcome!  Let me introduce myself.  My name is Tracy Fawley.  My hubby and I found our dreamstead last spring and are in the process of setting up a small dairy goat operation.  We live in the mountains of Northeastern PA. I have 5 Nigerian goats 4 does - Fern, Thistle, Willow and Jewel Weed.  1 buck - Gandolf.  Gandolf is bottle raised and is more human than goat.  He's always yelling about something.  Spoiled! 

Thanks for all the advice!  Will post pics.


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 20, 2009)

I love the term dreamstead!!  Mind if I steal it? 

Cant wait for photos!


----------



## freemotion (Nov 20, 2009)

Yes, BBH, I am thinking of Mister Stinky!  Pee'ing on his head and in his mouth!!!!!  WP, sounds like Gandolf might not be fully grown up yet?  You still speak so fondly of him!


----------



## Roll farms (Nov 20, 2009)

I bought a hobble from Hoeggers and have used it a few times on stubborn FF's, and I stop using it as soon as they realize life is good when you're udder's empty.

My husband is the best hobble I've found in a pinch, he can grab their back legs for me, and if they start bucking, he just lifts their whole back end up so that they can get the wiggles out while I milk.

I got the hobble for the days when he's at work and unable to help, because that will be EXACTLY when a first freshener will kid and be obnoxious...when I'm alone.

I decided the first time I milked a goat that "This is the most idiotic, useless, stupid idea I've ever had...."  She had tiny teats, small orifices, and like that story above, I worked for forever to get enough milk to barely coat the bottom of the bucket.

Many years later, I get 6-8 gallon a day and *most* of our does are so well behaved on the stand that I couldn't ask for better milkers...it takes patience and convincing them that you're NOT going to rip their udders off and feed them to some bear.

I bought my stainless steel buckets at TSC in the dog bowl aisle for a lot less than I've seen them online for...just an idea for those who might want a bucket.  I have the 1 gallon and 9 qt sizes.  
(Just make sure the handle welds are good...I don't have to tell you how mad I was while walking up the hill, the handle breaks, lose 1.5 gallons of white gold on the ground....grrrr.)

I have one (our 'herd boss') who gobbles her grain down, then starts stomping her feet when her pan's empty.  That's my "I want more" signal, and if not heeded, she WILL tip the bucket or put her foot in it.   She wins.
She also insists on being the first one milked every time. 
If she's not there when I arrive, and I dare milk someone before her, then THAT doe gets butted going back into the pen AND she will generally kick or stomp or something to let me know she's displeased...she knows I'm boss but she sure pushes her luck some days.

My daughter doesn't agree, but happiness on a really, really cold day, is a warm goat udder.  
Leaning into their side, head against them, feeling them breathe, is soooo relaxing to me.   I sort of go into a daze some mornings, milking on autopilot, just me and the goats doing what we do...it's a grand thing.

My point is, hang in there, you'll be fine, and it IS so worth it.


----------



## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 21, 2009)

> My husband is the best hobble I've found in a pinch, he can grab their back legs for me, and if they start bucking, he just lifts their whole back end up so that they can get the wiggles out while I milk.


get the wiggles out..hee hee hee thats exactly right. 

the first time i milked our 'old pro' she looked at me like i had lobsters coming out of my ears. i got milk EVERYWHERE but actually in the bucket.  i was glad i started with older dairy gals. i figured at least they knew what they were doing. this spring with our FF is going to be something else. i'll keep in mind your 'hubby hobble' for her!

but the worst is getting a stream on milk right down your barn boot. man....


----------



## Windy Pond (Nov 21, 2009)

Just got in from milking Fern and new contraption which worked yester day proved to be a disaster.  It made her really mad, she looked at me, made a huge stinky burp and bunges went flying.   She settled down and milked nicely after a long apology, a massage and lots of wispering sweet nothings in her ear.  I will try the sweet talking method from now on, maybe that's where I was going wrong.  I need to take more time with her. 

Thanks again for all the good advice and sharing stories.  I know now that my goat is not defective, we just need to work it out as first timers.  

Yes BBH you may freely use dreamstead.   Yes FM Gandolf is 4 months old.  He is not obnoxious, stinky or gross yet.  I love him but I'm told this is going to change sometime very soon.  OFG, the hubby hobble is a wonderful idea that I plan to use.  RF thank for the encouragement.  All of you are really great and I appreciate your help.

To be continued..........be the boss goat, be the boss goat


----------



## freemotion (Nov 21, 2009)

Yeah, love those stinky burps, especially right in your face!

How do you hobble your hubby???


----------



## Windy Pond (Nov 21, 2009)

I use the homeopathic method of hobbling my hubby.  I feed him my homemade pizza, he goes into a food coma.  I wish it worked on the goaties!


----------



## freemotion (Nov 21, 2009)

Windy Pond said:
			
		

> To be continued..........be the boss goat, be the boss goat


Zen milking:  Become one with the udder!



I guess I've been hobbling my hubby for years now and didn't know it!


----------



## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 21, 2009)

you guys are HILARIOUS!!! hee hee hee  pizza does soothe the savage beast....

  yay Windy for you and Fern!!!


----------



## FlightsofFancy (Nov 22, 2009)

I know this is going to sound ridiculous, but it worked for me on a really really bad FF who kicked so hard my arms were black and blue. She even blacked my eye. Hobbles were worthless with her, she would kick with her front feet.  Did I mention she was really really bad! 
After 2 weeks of fighting this doe and spilling milk everywhere, I just decided to get rid of the bucket and milk on a towel. It lessened my aggravation to the spilled milk. Yes I wasted all the milk, but it was being wasted anyway when she kicked. Taking the bucket out of the way seemed to calm her and we focused on her ability to stand still. Then the next week when I added a large mason jar to milk in (it was a smaller target for her to knock over) she did better and was more trusting. By the 5th week she was milking like a pro and cried to be let into the milking parlor. 
Some goats just need to be taught in stages. So now when I am feet trimming my babies or have them on the stanchion for any reason, I put a bowl under them so that they can get use to an object there. We will see how this pans out this spring.


----------



## Roll farms (Nov 22, 2009)

It sounds like you found the perfect way for her.  Good job!


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 22, 2009)




----------



## Windy Pond (Nov 22, 2009)

Hey FOF thanks for the towel advice, I will try it.  Maybe my bucket is too big?  I didnt get much milk tonight, I'm only getting enough to coat the bottom of the bucket.  Her baby is 8 wks old, 22 lbs. and cleans her out!  Baby Jewel is eating everything and has to lie upside-down to nurse.  She's huge!  Fern is kicking her away and it looks like weaning is in progress.  
Will I start to get more milk? I'm such a newbie!


----------



## freemotion (Nov 22, 2009)

Are you separating them at night so you can have the morning milk?


----------



## Windy Pond (Nov 24, 2009)

Have not separated them yet, baby Jewel just turned 8 wks and I wanted her to get as much milk as possible.  I'm going to separate Friday after Turkey Day.  I discovered this evening that Fern milks better if I milk both teats at the same time.  She lets her milk down faster and teats fill fuller.  Little steps, I feel that I am learning more every day!  :bun


----------



## big brown horse (Nov 24, 2009)

Yea!!


----------



## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 24, 2009)

great job Windy!!


----------



## freemotion (Nov 24, 2009)

You can just separate them overnight, milk first thing, the let them be together all day.  I'm sure Jewel is eating hay really well by now, and other than some hollering, will be just fine with this gradual weaning, if you want to do it this way.  I will probably do this with my spring kids from two of my does, and start around two to three weeks old.


----------



## Windy Pond (Dec 1, 2009)

I survived the holiday so here I am again.  Fern keeps getting worse, I had Jim hold her back end this morning and she is totally mad at me.  I decided to try hand milker and found instructions for making one on dairy goat journal.  Very excited I put it together in a few minutes and headed out to the milking stand.  Her udder was really soft and I couldn't get a good seal, I just managed to annoy Fern to the point she wouldn't eat her grain. I am going to separate her an Jewel tomorrow and see if I get a fuller udder.  I'm so sad!!!!!    Waaaaaaaaaa!


----------



## big brown horse (Dec 1, 2009)




----------



## freemotion (Dec 1, 2009)

How is your technique?  (But I do believe it is your girl, since she has been nursing all that time it probably is making it harder now, as she is protecting her kid's food source.)  Do you pull at all?  That is the fast way to a good kick here.  I find that grasping the teat and pushing up, into the udder, the way a kid does, is more effective, especially if Mya is annoyed.  

Do you EVER feel bubbles going back into the udder?  Another fast track to a good smack.

Mya taught me fast.  Full pan.  Clean pan.  Milking stand.  Work fast.  Grasp only as hard as is necessary, no bubbles, no pulling.  Never, ever, ever touch Mya's hind leg, not even a hair!  Have extra alfalfa pellets ready in case she Hoover's extra fast.  No distraction.  No mosquitoes.

Freezing cold hands are just fine, though!  Go figure!!!


----------



## Windy Pond (Dec 1, 2009)

I try to push up like her baby does.  I try to be very concious not to pull.  She's very annoyed now so I'm sure my technique is not to her satisfaction.  First milker on a first time freshener, going through a tough time.  I wanted the baby to have as much milk as possible, it just seemed natural but probably a huge mistake.  My other does who are not milking yet are very friendly.  And run to me when I go into the pen, I've had them 6 mos. 2 yrs old, same as Fern.  Fern I have had 2 months and she has never been very friendly.  The others were friendly from day one.  I'm not giving up on her.  She is a beautiful goat and has a huge udder.  It's just empty since Jewel is on it all the time.  I'm afraid she will dry up on me.  Going to pen them so they can see eachother but Jewel can't nurse.  She's eating tons of hay and grain so it's time.


----------



## freemotion (Dec 1, 2009)

Keep us posted!  I will be working with my own first freshener in the spring.  But I had the advantage of raising her from 5 weeks, so she has already had meals on the milking stand and has had me handling her teensy teats since day one.  I hope things go smoothly.....but these are goats we are talking about.....


----------



## Windy Pond (Dec 9, 2009)

Ok, so things are starting to change for the better. I was very hesitant to take Jewel away from Fern due to the weather here.  I feel she needs to cuddle with mom in the cold.  We have 10 inches of snow and it is going down to 17 tonight.  Decided to let weaning happen naturally.  This morning I was met by Fern who's udder was HUGE!   Jewel was more interested in hay and warm water than mom.  Fern stood by the gate calling to me.  I took her to the milking stand and she milked like a pro!  No hobble, loved having her udder washed and milked generously.  Thanks for all your support!


----------



## freemotion (Dec 9, 2009)

Yahoo!  I hope this continues forever! 

My pretty easy milker just became a raging b**tch while in heat this last time.  I thought about you!


----------

