# An acre of Ivy covered trees



## LittleFarmLife (May 24, 2014)

We just bought two acres last fall and the entirety of the back acre is covered in woods and poison ivy as well as disgusting amounts of english ivy that the previous owners let run rampant. We are looking at getting a couple of goats and our budget is pretty tight. I'm looking for some advice on fencing goats and maybe a small donkey or llama. Thanks!


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Jun 2, 2014)

Goats love ivy, even poison ivy, so sounds like it might be a good plan.  Fencing doesn't have to be horribly pricey; you can just do T-posts and no climb or field fence.  I recommend no climb if you have any chance of getting goats with horns.  make sure the fence is pulled tight and there's not a gap between the fence and the ground (they can occasionally slip under ).  Depending on the size of goats you want, 4-ft high usually works.

If you're getting goats, I would definitely recommend some kind of guardian.  I'm partial to dogs, but donkeys and llamas also work well.  As far as keeping things on a budget, ask your local feed/farm store for ideas or you can sometimes find livestock on Craig's List for good prices.  Just make sure you're not getting sickly animals.  If you only need them for weed eating, champion lines aren't important, but you always want a healthy animal.  I know where I live, there are a lot of donkey rescues and you can get a donkey for practically free if you have the right facilities for it.

Please keep in mind that the goats and whatever guardian you choose will also need some kind of shelter to keep them out of the rain and snow, and to provide shade in summer.  If your budget is extremely tight, avoid the temptation to do it all at once.  Get fencing, housing, etc in order before you get any animals.  There's no huge rush - the weeds aren't going anywhere.   Good luck and congrats on your new land!


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## goatboy1973 (Jun 5, 2014)

I'd use 5 foot T-posts with 8 strands of electric and llamas are real good guardian animals and the good thing about llamas, is, they are a visual deterrent to humans and other critters and they eat the same food as the goats. They can actually help trim the trees even better.


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## greybeard (Jun 6, 2014)

I have a few English Ivy covered white oak trees too--used to be much worse but I slowly got rid of it everywhere else with an aggressive cutting and digging program.  I sprayed the new shoots on open ground, eventually using up all the energy stored in the root mass and the plants die off. If it truly is Engilsh Ivy (Hedera helix) it is unlike some invasive vines in that the vine itself while attaching itself to the tree trunk, doesn't suck nutrients from the tree itself. The little root looking threads of the vine wrap around the rough bark but do not penetrate into the tree's vascular system area. Nor does the vine "choke" the tree from encirclement--it's a living plant and expands as the tree's trunk diameter increases.
It relies solely on it's own vine trunk for water and nutrients from the ground.  The ivy does however, suck up significant volumes of water and nutrients the oak trees need, as well as it's upper parts shielding the oak foliage from sunlight. Addittionally, in winter, the evergreen ivy leaves collect snow and ice, adding weight to the barren oak tree limbs, often breaking limbs off.

Here's how to rid it from your oak trees. Using a pair of garden lopers (long handled pruning shears) beginning about 1' up the tree trunk from ground level, cut only a 1-2" section out of each vine and gently pull those sections from the tree bark. Do it on each and every vine climbing the tree.  Leave the rest of the vine in the tree. Trying to remove large sections will pull bark from the tree, and open the oak up to insects and disease.  The vine itself will die up in the tree, the leaves will fall off and the tree trunk will either absorb the big vine as the tree continues to grow or the insects, elements, and woodpeckers will take care of the dead vine.

Dig up the roots of the vine from the edge of the tree trunk bole to about 2 feet radius outward.
Another option is to spray or 'paint' the newly severed vine "trunks" with glycosphate (roundup) or triclopyr (Remedy) . Apply  it right on the cut itself, not on the outside of the vine.  Don't go crazy with it, you can kill the tree if too much triclopyr gets on the tree.
Allowing goats, sheep or cattle in to eat the new sprouts or leaves CAN cause problems!!!



> *English Ivy* — All species of livestock have exhibited toxicosis from English Ivy with symptoms including local irritation, excessive salivation, nausea, excitement, difficult breathing, severe diarrhea, thirst and coma.



Many people claim they have had no problems with goats eating English Ivy but it is during certain stages, a *Saponin producing plant*--and at other times, a  Cyanogenic producer---------your results may vary.

http://www.goatworld.com/health/plants/englishivy.shtml


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## goatboy1973 (Jun 8, 2014)

Yeah, I always thought English Ivy was poisonous.


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Jun 9, 2014)

Good to know.  Don't really have English Ivy around here, so I wasn't aware.  Very helpful advice on how to remove it - thanks!


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## greybeard (Jun 10, 2014)

Ours began as a potted plant hanging on my mother's front porch and got out of hand. It has a root system that can stall a bulldozer.
Reminded me of kudzu--the plant that ate the south.


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## goatboy1973 (Jun 10, 2014)

greybeard said:


> Ours began as a potted plant hanging on my mother's front porch and got out of hand. It has a root system that can stall a bulldozer.
> Reminded me of kudzu--the plant that ate the south.


Yeah, Kudzu would cover the South and it would be a ghost town and choke the life out Tennessee if our forestry divisions and DOT did not put up such a fight against it. In optimal conditions the stuff can grow a foot or more a day. We are looking into using our commercial goats to clear the stuff in the city of Knoxville, there's actually a really good video showing the goats' job they did. Search "Fort Dickerson Goats" and watch the video.


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## Mike CHS (Jun 10, 2014)

Wasn't Kudzu imported as a grazing plant in the first place?


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## goatboy1973 (Jun 10, 2014)

Mike CHS said:


> Wasn't Kudzu imported as a grazing plant in the first place?


Yes it sure was. It was imported from the continent of Asia as a "cure all" for the huge erosion problem in the southern United States. The problem is that there are natural enemies of Kudzu in Asia but not in the US so Kudzu established quickly and devoured anything and everything in its path.


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## norseofcourse (Jun 10, 2014)

Mike CHS said:


> Wasn't Kudzu imported as a grazing plant in the first place?



And multiflora rose was intentionally brought to this country, I have a 1971 book on horse care that has a whole paragraph advocating its use as a 'decorative and impenetrable' fence.  Whatever idiot authorized that should have to come clear my pasture!  Luckily the sheep are eating it, along with the poison ivy, bindweed, and lots of other stuff.

I do have a small amount of english ivy near the garage, I read the same thing about it being bad for sheep and goats.  This past winter killed much of it, I'll get the rest.


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## goatboy1973 (Jun 10, 2014)

Our goats love multiflora rose.


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## LittleFarmLife (Sep 24, 2014)

greybeard said:


> I have a few English Ivy covered white oak trees too--used to be much worse but I slowly got rid of it everywhere else with an aggressive cutting and digging program.  I sprayed the new shoots on open ground, eventually using up all the energy stored in the root mass and the plants die off. If it truly is Engilsh Ivy (Hedera helix) it is unlike some invasive vines in that the vine itself while attaching itself to the tree trunk, doesn't suck nutrients from the tree itself. The little root looking threads of the vine wrap around the rough bark but do not penetrate into the tree's vascular system area. Nor does the vine "choke" the tree from encirclement--it's a living plant and expands as the tree's trunk diameter increases.
> It relies solely on it's own vine trunk for water and nutrients from the ground.  The ivy does however, suck up significant volumes of water and nutrients the oak trees need, as well as it's upper parts shielding the oak foliage from sunlight. Addittionally, in winter, the evergreen ivy leaves collect snow and ice, adding weight to the barren oak tree limbs, often breaking limbs off.
> 
> Here's how to rid it from your oak trees. Using a pair of garden lopers (long handled pruning shears) beginning about 1' up the tree trunk from ground level, cut only a 1-2" section out of each vine and gently pull those sections from the tree bark. Do it on each and every vine climbing the tree.  Leave the rest of the vine in the tree. Trying to remove large sections will pull bark from the tree, and open the oak up to insects and disease.  The vine itself will die up in the tree, the leaves will fall off and the tree trunk will either absorb the big vine as the tree continues to grow or the insects, elements, and woodpeckers will take care of the dead vine.
> ...




Oh no! The fact that goats can't handle the English ivy as well as the poison ivy means we have to manually or mechanically clear the property :-(


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## Baymule (Sep 24, 2014)

Is the English ivy all over or just in spots? A friend of mine used cow panels and T-posts to build small pens for his goats to clear things up for him. I think it was 2 panels long and 2 panels wide, 32'x32'. He put a portable shelter in there, water and a tub for feed. When they eat a place down, he moves the pen. If there are areas that are English ivy free, this would work for you and the panels are not expensive.


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## LittleFarmLife (Sep 24, 2014)

Baymule said:


> Is the English ivy all over or just in spots? A friend of mine used cow panels and T-posts to build small pens for his goats to clear things up for him. I think it was 2 panels long and 2 panels wide, 32'x32'. He put a portable shelter in there, water and a tub for feed. When they eat a place down, he moves the pen. If there are areas that are English ivy free, this would work for you and the panels are not expensive.


Unfortunately the majority of the back acre is covered in English ivy/poison ivy all mixed up together


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## goatboy1973 (Sep 25, 2014)

The poison ivy is okay for the goats to eat, it is the English ivy that is the problem. I don't even know if all English ivy is bad or if there's different varieties that are okay. If there's a botanist that subscribes to BYH they would know. Unless a goat is starved half to death, they usually are very careful as to what they eat. Most poisonous plants have a bitter taste to them due to a high concentration of alkaline compounds which wreaks havoc when it gets absorbed into the bloodstream causing alterations in the pH of the blood which normally operates under a super tight normal range. Variations in blood pH can cause a quick death.


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## LittleFarmLife (Sep 26, 2014)

goatboy1973 said:


> The poison ivy is okay for the goats to eat, it is the English ivy that is the problem. I don't even know if all English ivy is bad or if there's different varieties that are okay. If there's a botanist that subscribes to BYH they would know. Unless a goat is starved half to death, they usually are very careful as to what they eat. Most poisonous plants have a bitter taste to them due to a high concentration of alkaline compounds which wreaks havoc when it gets absorbed into the bloodstream causing alterations in the pH of the blood which normally operates under a super tight normal range. Variations in blood pH can cause a quick death.




It makes sense that goats would be smart enough to not eat the stuff that's bad for them. I'm still concerned that maybe we'd get a stupid goat and then feel bad forever because it ate the English ivy and died. :-/ I REALLY don't want to clear all this land with machines.


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## canesisters (Sep 26, 2014)

Another option would be to borrow a couple of goats.
I had a small wooded area in my back yard that was so overgrown you couldn't even see the fence through it.  We threw up a simple fence to keep the goats away from the house (and planted beds) and within a few weeks they had the whole place beautifully cleared.  If you can find someone with goats, see if they will 'rent' you a couple for a season.


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## goatgurl (Sep 27, 2014)

my goats love multiflora rose and poison ivy as well as green briars but you have never lived till you have had goats throw up green azalea slime all over you.   i didn't know rumen animals could do that.   they will eat things they shouldn't and wild azalea is just an example.  i would be concerned about fencing them in with the English ivy.


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## goatboy1973 (Oct 2, 2014)

goatgurl said:


> my goats love multiflora rose and poison ivy as well as green briars but you have never lived till you have had goats throw up green azalea slime all over you.   i didn't know rumen animals could do that.   they will eat things they shouldn't and wild azalea is just an example.  i would be concerned about fencing them in with the English ivy.


Yeah the green azalea slime smells like llama spit which is basically partially undigested plant material. Hard to get that smell off of your skin.


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## LittleFarmLife (Oct 9, 2014)

Looks like we are going to have to clear the land ourselves....

Thanks for all the advice


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## ducks4you (Feb 5, 2015)

You might just want to use Round Up.  I personally hate the stuff, but it will clear all vegatation, and my hay man uses it when necessary to start a new crop of alfalfa or whatever mix.   You mix it, spray it and wait a couple of weeks to plant.  Then you can go in and pull up what you don't want.  Btw, horses love poison ivy, too.


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