# whether ND straining to urinate



## e0409 (Nov 5, 2021)

Hello! i have 2 brother Nigerian dwarf goats (both are whethered). recently one of them will strain to pee but only occasionally and usually only after he’s already urinated a lot. He doesn’t do it after every-time he urinates either. we recently changed their diet from 1/4c of BOSS, purina goat grower and alfalfa pellets (1/4 c in total bit of each) sweetlix minerals, baking soda, and orchard hay (free choice) now we switched to about 1/3c of ONLY timothy pellets (with no other additives) and less that an 1/8c of alfalfa pellets (with no additives). We were told to take the baking soda away and to pulse dose ammonium chloride (feed for 1 week out of the month) by another goat owner. i’m taking to the vet in about a week to get them both checked out but i’m just wondering what it might be. they are also the only two goats so i don’t think they’re just being gross boys. I’m worried about stones but he’s not swollen, his urine is a normal color, he doesn’t strain all the time ( not even everyday) and he’s not acting like he’s in pain. Thank you in advance.


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## Alaskan (Nov 6, 2021)

e0409 said:


> We were told to take the baking soda away and to pulse dose ammonium chloride (feed for 1 week out of the month) by another goat owner.


Huh.... that i know nothing about.

I know there is a bunch of controversy over the baking soda and goats...   

I always had it out...  but I had does and kids, wethers were never kept long.

So.... ask your vet???

Moving on....


I know wethers can have issues if their food is too rich.

How old?

You say you had them on grower, but just stopped that..... so are they now full grown?

If they are still growing....  then I think your current feeding sounds about right.

If they are done growing i would feed them free choice hay, and just a small handfull, more or less, of goat pellets.

Not sure... if they have hay... why you would give them hay pellets. (The timothy pellets).....  unless it is just a treat/training tool.

Alfalfa pellets are a different thing.  Higher protein...  but I wouldn't think needed or good for full grown wethers.   If they are still growing,  then maybe a good thing. 

Luckily you can ask your vet about the diet.

As to peeing....  yes, wethers can have issues with that....

But, since there is no straining,  no pain,  and only happening rarely, I think it is safe to wait the week or 2 until the vet visit.

Do try to take notes, pay attention to frequency of the straining and that sort of thing.

The more info you can give the vet, the better chance he will correctly figure out what is going on.


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## e0409 (Nov 6, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Huh.... that i know nothing about.
> 
> I know there is a bunch of controversy over the baking soda and goats...
> 
> ...


they will be a year in February we are feeding the timothy pellets just for something extra just because right now where they graze is extremely muddy because it’s rain season so being able to graze right now is pretty rare. and yes that was my plan to talk about nutrition with our vet, just wondering if anyone has had this kind of experience just because it’s so odd that it only happens every once in a while. we also stopped the grower because it has ammonium chloride in it and we’re told that if ammonium chloride is fed to often it looses it purpose because the body grows more immune so that’s why we’re going to start feeding it in pulse doses, instead of pre made in feed.


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## Alaskan (Nov 6, 2021)

e0409 said:


> and orchard hay (free choice)





e0409 said:


> we are feeding the timothy pellets just for something extra just because right now where they graze is extremely muddy because it’s rain season so being able to graze right now is pretty rare. and yes that was my plan to talk about nutrition wit


I agree that they need hay.... especially if they have restricted grazing/browsing at the moment. 

However,  the orchard grass hay is pretty much equivalent to the timothy hay pellets.

So.... if timothy hay pellets cost less than your orchard hay...  then sure, feed the hay pellets. 

But...  if the orchard grass hay costs the same or less...  I would feed just the orchard grass hay.


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 6, 2021)

e0409 said:


> they will be a year in February we are feeding the timothy pellets just for something extra just because right now where they graze is extremely muddy because it’s rain season so being able to graze right now is pretty rare. and yes that was my plan to talk about nutrition with our vet, just wondering if anyone has had this kind of experience just because it’s so odd that it only happens every once in a while. we also stopped the grower because it has ammonium chloride in it and we’re told that if ammonium chloride is fed to often it looses it purpose because the body grows more immune so that’s why we’re going to start feeding it in pulse doses, instead of pre made in feed.


Keep baking soda out as much as possible, let them have free choice hay, wethers SHOULD NOT HAVE ALFALFA as this can cause urinary stones for them. I agree with Alaskan on everything she had mentioned. Do not give them alfalfa or alfalfa pellets, I mentioned why.....please allow them to have baking soda. That helps them with bloat. Do give minerals....no grain for wethers since it is not needed for them


How much hay are you giving them? Like how many flakes? How many times a day? And do you feed them hay every day or every other day? @e0409


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## Mini Horses (Nov 6, 2021)

There may be NO problem...just a boy being a boy.   Sometimes they pose and wait before the event.  I realize they are wethered but, my boys can be dramatic and then dribble along...more often sometimes than others.


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## e0409 (Nov 6, 2021)

Wild Bug Ranch said:


> Keep baking soda out as much as possible, let them have free choice hay, wethers SHOULD NOT HAVE ALFALFA as this can cause urinary stones for them. I agree with Alaskan on everything she had mentioned. Do not give them alfalfa or alfalfa pellets, I mentioned why.....please allow them to have baking soda. That helps them with bloat. Do give minerals....no grain for wethers since it is not needed for them
> 
> 
> How much hay are you giving them? Like how many flakes? How many times a day? And do you feed them hay every day or every other day? @e0409


they get free choice hay. we just refill their hay feeder when needed. and with the timothy pellets they get 1/4-1/3 cup each. and the timothy pellets are just rolled hay nothing extra.


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 6, 2021)

e0409 said:


> they get free choice hay. we just refill their hay feeder when needed. and with the timothy pellets they get 1/4-1/3 cup each. and the timothy pellets are just rolled hay nothing extra.


I wouldn't feed them the pellets, how much flakes of hay do you give them?


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## abraeri (Nov 6, 2021)

Wild Bug Ranch said:


> Keep baking soda out as much as possible, let them have free choice hay, wethers SHOULD NOT HAVE ALFALFA as this can cause urinary stones for them. I agree with Alaskan on everything she had mentioned. Do not give them alfalfa or alfalfa pellets, I mentioned why.....please allow them to have baking soda. That helps them with bloat. Do give minerals....no grain for wethers since it is not needed for them
> 
> 
> How much hay are you giving them? Like how many flakes? How many times a day? And do you feed them hay every day or every other day? @e0409



As far as Alfalfa causing urinary stones; this has been discussed here before, and the actual problem was said not to be directly with alfalfa, but with phosphorous (from grain feed). The calcium to phosphorous ratio in feed should be around 2:1 if I remember correctly, so the problems often stem from too much grain in the diet. We keep our bucks around for around 9 months, they get full alfalfa hay/pellets, and have never had a problem.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong.


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## e0409 (Nov 6, 2021)

abraeri said:


> As far as Alfalfa causing urinary stones; this has been discussed here before, and the actual problem was said not to be directly with alfalfa, but with phosphorous (from grain feed). The calcium to phosphorous ratio in feed should be around 2:1 if I remember correctly, so the problems often stem from too much grain in the diet. We keep our bucks around for around 9 months, they get full alfalfa hay/pellets, and have never had a problem.
> 
> Please do correct me if I'm wrong.


yeah i’ve heard multiple different things. i think at this point i’m going to wait to talk with the vet and go from there. we are giving them timothy pellets but the difference between the grain we were giving them and this new stuff is the timothy pellets is literally just rolled hay so they’re basically just getting hay. and every thing that i’ve read is it’s better to just stay away from grain with whethers


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## Wild Bug Ranch (Nov 7, 2021)

e0409 said:


> yeah i’ve heard multiple different things. i think at this point i’m going to wait to talk with the vet and go from there. we are giving them timothy pellets but the difference between the grain we were giving them and this new stuff is the timothy pellets is literally just rolled hay so they’re basically just getting hay. and every thing that i’ve read is it’s better to just stay away from grain with whethers


Yes, stay away from grain with wethers and bucks, give them one or the other, the grass hay or the pellets. When you fill the hay feeder(you didn't really answer my question) do you fill it up to the top when it's empty or do you give them a certain amount of flakes? How many flakes of hay do you give those 2?


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