# First litter-- unexpected Need Advice badly!!!



## Delighted (Apr 5, 2011)

This is my first post here, also.  Guess I'll introduce myself better later, cuz in my mind I have an urgent question.  Who knows if it really is urgent.

We had 4 male bunnies--er, until one morning, a month ago, we found three newborns on the wire, and three more inside the house they were all sharing.  Five of them were alive, but cold, so I gathered them up and brought them inside.  Went online, did some reading fed them, but decided I better find out which one is the mama and let her raise them.  So now we had to find out which one was the mama!

We separated out two that we thought were boys and left the two we thought were girls together, not knowing which one was the real mama.  Put the babies in the house (A plastic dog crate), and soon, we saw that one of them had pulled a bunch of fur to amke a nest.  COOL! Well, the babies lived 24 more hours-- I don't think she fed them, and it was a cold night, and I think they froze to death.

Well, okay, now we knew which were the females, at least, and since we had only two pens, we didn't bother with mating them again, yet.  (WE DO want to breed, because we want to raise them for meat).  

Last week, when we went out to feed them, we found 6 dead newborns, most of them scattered all over the place--they looked like they'd been bitten.  This was three weeks after the first litter, so we're guessing #2 was pregnant when #1 gave birth.  

Now, a week later, there are at least 7 newborns again!  Guess those boys got to #1 right after she gave birth the first time?  Anyway, we separated the two girls, and hope we'd chosen the right one as the mama.  As of this evening, and I'm guessing they're about 24 hours old, they are still alive, but boy do they cry when i reach in and just touch the top of the fur pile.  (I'm not touching the babies, just checking the fur pile for warmth)  

I think they're hungry--and I haven't seen the bunny that's in there go in to feed.  I know they only feed their young once or twice a day, but I'm afraid we may have made the wrong chioce and the other girl is the mama.  

How would we find this out? For tonight, I'd like to just bring them indside and feed them enough to get by on (I'd found a formula online that suggested KMR, made with less water than you'd use for kittens, and adding a tiny bit of heavy whipping cream to make it richer for baby bunnies, then i added a drop of mare's colostrum to the mix)  The first litter lived 24 hours on that mix, til I put them back with the mama--I had fed them twice, but they each took only a drop or two the first feeding.


So for tonight, (It's supposed to be cold) I thought maybe I should bring them in, feed them this mix and try and figure out who is the mama tomorrow--although I'm not sure how to do that.  I have read here that some people bring the babies inside and take them to the mama once or twice a day for her to feed them, and that is what I'm considering for this litter--I'm kinda thinking this mama bunny is NOT a natural at raising babies!

So, I'm going to be hovering around this post, hoping there are people on tonight that can give me advice.  Especially if it's NOT a good idea to bring them inside tonight.  Thanks!


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## PattySh (Apr 5, 2011)

I'd check the females bellies. One must have recently pulled hair so you can see the teats. The mother should have milk in her teats. You should also be able to tell if the babies tummies are round. If they are flat you didn't grab the right mama. Babies will jump and cray tho when you touch them in the nest. You should be able to tell real quick if they are growing they grow real fast! I have rabbits but have never bottle fed baby bunnies, I hear it's seldom works out well. I hope you get it sorted out and the bunnies do well. Bunnies generally stay warm in their nest. I've had winter kits here in Vermont in our barn and they did fine. Mothers generally sleep away from the kits and visit only to feed them.


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## Beekissed (Apr 6, 2011)

If she doesn't feed the kits you can hold her down and allow them to suck....my sis did this once with good results.  Can't beat mama's milk for the best nutrition!


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## Delighted (Apr 6, 2011)

I had brought the babies in last night--maybe it was the right thing, because they were not as warm as they'd been earlier in the day. I actually hadn't felt each bunny earlier, just felt at the top of the pile of fur and felt warmth.  But in handling each individual baby, their limbs were cool, and the skin was cool--not cold, but not warm.   They definitely felt warmer after they had been inside a few hours.  I didn't use a heating pad, just had them in an enclosed box (Because we have a cat), with a towel over it to hold in their body heat.

So, first question;  What does a baby bunny feel like, temp-wise?

I did try to feed them.  I had a needle-less 1cc syringe and they each took 1 to two drops.  Maybe the mama had fed them? They weren't reaching up to my hand like earlier in the day.

Second question-- is one to two drops a normal sized feeding for 24 hour old babies?  (I will be watching for growth, for sure)

Last (for now at least! siiiigh, you're dealing with a newbee!)  The outdoor pen is not a typical rabbit hutch-- we don't have one of those.  This pen is outside, under a shade tree, gets morning sun and a bit of midday sun, but no afternoon or early evening sun.  Three sides are wire, with a metal roof and back.  The house is a plastic dog crate.  The adults pee and poop inside the dog crate, so we get a puddle inside the crate, since it's a solid plastic bottom.  We put wheat straw in as bedding and change it out weekly.  There is no nest box, the babies are in a fur-lined hollow in the straw.  That nest isn't wet (yet)

Questions:
Is this a sufficient house/pen for rabbits, especially a rabbit and babies?

Can I change the straw out yet?

Can I put in at least a cardboard nest box til I can get a wooden one built?  (I have a shoe box) 

If I put in a cardboard box, do i pull up a bunch of the straw that she had made the nest in, as well as all the fur she'd lined the nest with?  (Or do I line the nest box with new straw, and do my best to put the fur into this new straw?)


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