# Vaccine lumps



## savingdogs

I vaccinated my goats with the recommended goat vaccine (CD and T I believe) that I purchased from the feed store. I'm familiar with giving injections so I think my technique was correct, but I see that in the areas where I gave them, in all three goats, they got a raised area, a little bump. I sold the wethers so I cannot say what their "bumps" are like now, but I retained a doeling and she is now five months old and still has her lump. I would say it looks like a small hematoma, non-painful.

Will she always have that?

Is that a normal vaccine reaction?

Do all goats get these?

Are there ways to avoid this? Besides the obvious, not vaccinating. 

But also, if you don't vaccinate, any links to support this decision?

For perspective, I am not a goat breeder, I am a backyard milker and I do not show goats. My goats are only exposed to other goats at breeding time. I vaccinated the kids believing that it would enhance their "pet" value as they are mutt dairy goats and I live in a rural area full of brush. I'd like to sell any future wethers as pets so don't want to have to explain any lumps since my goats are untested but I believe clean. 

Recommendations? Should I do anything to my doelings hematoma?


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## elevan

I've never had a shot lump in a goat...so I can't say for certain if they ever go down any or give any suggestions for making it smaller.

I would say it's not a normal reaction (or all of my goats would have them too).

Here's what I do:

You've got to make sure you get below ALL layers of the epidermis (skin) or you'll be depositing the vaccine between skin layers which (imo) is probably would causes most shot lumps.  When I insert the needle I lay 2 fingers lightly over the needle (needle below the skin / fingers on top) and move the needle sideways...if I can feel it move freely back and forth I know it's ok to start the injection...if there is any resistance I remove the needle and try again.  Once it's freely under the skin, I inject.

I give the shot SQ, injecting and then quickly removing the needle, apply very firm pressure to the spot while massaging it for at least 1 full minute.


I think my process would be harder if they were a commercial herd of many or weren't as tame as they are.


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## helmstead

It's completely normal, caused by the CD&T.  That's why we give CD&T IM instead of SQ...I HATE bumps and blemishes.

Certain brands cause them more than others.  Also certain antibiotics can cause them, like Agrimycin...for one.


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## savingdogs

You can avoid it going IM? I'm pretty sure I was pretty well SQ when I went for the injection.....although I could be wrong, but I don't think I was not deep enough all those times (each goat got a bump from each vaccine and booster). When you go IM, where do you choose the site?

Is there anything to be done for my doeling's lump now?


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## Ariel301

The lump will eventually go away, but it can take a really long time. I always got them with CDT shots given SQ so I switched to giving them IM in the back of the thigh on the hind leg and now I hardly ever get a lump. There is really not much that I know of you can do for the lump, just leave it alone until it goes away. If you are going to give the vaccines SQ, you should always give them in a location that is not prone to lumps from caseous lymphadenitis, so that the lumps do not look suspicious. (the "armpit" area behind the elbow in the front leg, and the back of the thigh are both pretty standard; avoid giving shots in the neck or in front of the shoulder blade)

As for choosing whether or not to give vaccines...the CDT vaccine does not protect against any diseases that are contagious diseases, so it's not really a matter of "my goats never go anywhere or see other goats so they don't need it". It's for Enterotoxemia caused by a bacteria called Clostridium perfringens  (your goat does not get it from other goats) and tetanus, which is an infection that enters the body through a dirty wound, usually a puncture. I used to not vaccinate, but after losing a baby goat to tetanus, I always, always vaccinate. It is the most horrible animal death I have had to go through, she laid in my arms screaming and drooling and paddling her feet for hours before she finally went into a coma and died. We tried everything to save her but nothing worked. It was an incredibly slow and painful death, and it could have been avoided with two little shots. So, if you are questioning whether or not to vaccinate, you've got to ask yourself if you are willing to go through that or not, because no matter how careful you are, sooner or later one of your goats will find something to injure itself on, and then you run the risk of tetanus in an unvaccinated animal.


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## savingdogs

Gosh, I would never want that. It was the "T" part of the CDT that seemed the most important, but thank you for explaining that the other things in the vaccines are not contagious. Interesting. I knew it did not protect against CL and CAE. That is also a good suggestion to pick a less suspicious site, I like that idea a lot. Thanks everyone.


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## 20kidsonhill

We get lumps 1 out of about 10 times, so we switched to doing it in the elbow under the belly, behind the front leg.  And recenlty we have been doing IM in the back leg, I haven't noticed an injection abcess there yet. But I did some shots a month ago on some yearling does, and one of them has a pretty good knot on her back leg.  In an odd spot.   I can't remember if we gave her a shot their or not, but it is possible, since we were doing CD&T, Bo=se, and LA-200 at the same time. I probably did atleast one of those in the back leg.  ,  I sold two show whethers this year with CD&T shots, one is on the neck. They said they didn't mine, just wouldn't use that one as their showmanship animal. But really that isn't acceptable on our part.  I don't think it will be gone by the time they have to shear and show.


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## Goatherd

I have limited experience, but I just gave my four kids their second CDT injections and fortunately, don't have any bumps or lumps.  The first I gave on the right shoulder/neck side and then the second on the left.  Each time I massaged the injection site for about a minute because I thought it would help dissipate the vaccine more quickly and hopefully, prevent lumps.
Of course this may just be luck of the draw.


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## Ariel301

Goatherd said:
			
		

> I have limited experience, but I just gave my four kids their second CDT injections and fortunately, don't have any bumps or lumps.  The first I gave on the right shoulder/neck side and then the second on the left.  Each time I massaged the injection site for about a minute because I thought it would help dissipate the vaccine more quickly and hopefully, prevent lumps.
> Of course this may just be luck of the draw.


Massaging the injection site a minute or two can help reduce the lumps (and soreness too). I forgot to mention that one.


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## savingdogs

The lumps actually did not seem to be there until a few weeks later. I noticed them when I did the second round, but when I gave them, I thought I had them SQ better the second time because I couldn't feel any lump immediately afterwards and I DID rub it in. But there are lumps for each vaccine I gave the doeling as I kept very careful track of where I placed them after noticing it, I made them all close together between the shoulder blades on all three kids so I'd know that THOSE lumps were from the vax. 

Did I perhaps give them too big a dose, I gave 1 cc to each. The bottle did not state how much to give.


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## ksalvagno

Actually, the dose usually is 2cc so you didn't give too much. What brand are you using?


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## helmstead

Unfortunately at 1 cc...you've underdosed them all and will have to do the whole caboodle over again...the dosage is 2 cc no matter the size of the goat.


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## Roll farms

Essential 3+T from Colorado Serum is actually labeled to be given either IM or SQ....I use that one, IM, and no more lumps!


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## Goatherd

> Did I perhaps give them too big a dose, I gave 1 cc to each. The bottle did not state how much to give.


Actually, you under dosed them.  The dosage for any size/age of goat is 2 cc.


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## 20kidsonhill

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Essential 3+T from Colorado Serum is actually labeled to be given either IM or SQ....I use that one, IM, and no more lumps!


I might try that next time, I am tired of vaccination lumps.  3 show whethers this year out of 15 sold, have vaccination lumps on them. Annoying to say the least One of them is right in the middle of the neck. the other two are in the elbow area.


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## aggieterpkatie

I always give near the arm pit, but on the body side, almost on the side of the chest.  I usually don't have lumps, but I've gotten them occasionally.  Even if you do get lumps you can't see them there, that's why I give them in that spot.


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## Roll farms

I know a lot of folks give them there...it's another one of those "things I didn't know until years after I started in goats" b/c there was not much info on the WWW back then.

I bought a goat from a 'show' breeder a couple years ago.  She had a lump in her arm pit from a shot when I bought her.  I didn't pay it any mind.  She was supposed to be bred...she wasn't....I ended up not liking her much so I sold her to an older gentleman who used to run a goat / cow dairy back in the 70's.

He called me a couple weeks later, all freaked out b/c the doe had a 'lump' in her armpit.  I explained about what it was / why 'show' breeders do it there, and he was wayyy skeptical (I know he thought it was CL).  His last words were, "Well, I am taking her to the vet and if this turns out to be anything other than you've said, you WILL be taking the goat back AND returning my money."  

I never heard from him again....


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## savingdogs

Goatherd said:
			
		

> Did I perhaps give them too big a dose, I gave 1 cc to each. The bottle did not state how much to give.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, you under dosed them.  The dosage for any size/age of goat is 2 cc.
Click to expand...

Sheesh, so they got these lumps for nothing? I would imagine 1 cc is not effective?


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## Roll farms

It may or may not be enough to stimulate an immune reaction.  I would think that if they got a lump, they had a reaction...but I'd be tempted to give them 2 more rounds of 2cc ea, just to be sure.


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## savingdogs

Thanks, at least I know now where to give it!


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