# How do you handle an aggressive  ram?



## WindyIndy (Nov 15, 2016)

My ram Chewbaca has gotten very aggressive within the last few months. I always try and watch my back, but he has gotten me before and even cracked my phone screen that was in my pocket. 

I know he's just being a ram, but I was wondering how you all handle your rams? I have tried to bring sticks or a horse training stick in with me but that doesn't seem to help, only makes things worse. I have waved my hand or put a leg up when he starts coming at me and that works about a handful of times. Maggie even seems to have given up on calling him off. Someone recommended one of the electric cattle prons,. Have you guys ever used one? I was looking at the kind that you need to push the button to shock them with the hopes that just touching him as a warning before shocking would be enough. 

It's gotten to where I'm nervous to go in there, I do tie him up to a post if I need to be in there for a lengthy time, but then he'll come at me as I untie him. I was considering wintering him with my last ram lamb (he's still intact though, so maybe not a good idea?). I liked to winter him with the ewes as I can only have one water heater, meaning I would have to haul buckets all winter for him. 

For all I know this is all normal, it's only my second year raising sheep. But any suggestions would be great!


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## luvmypets (Nov 15, 2016)

Ok before I start I will say I have dealt with the same issue. Our previous ram Reggie was untrustworthy and often dangerous. He has cracked my phone and bruised my tailbone. But no matter how annoying he was, he was loved by all. He unfortunately passed away at 4 years by a twisted gut, but I have his last son(in my profile pic) 

The first step is treating him respect, water often works very well, sheep hate getting wet. A shearer showed us how to flip him(like how they do for hoof trimming) if he got out of hand. You need to teach him you are the boss, he is ramming you to show he is dominant. If he starts making a move to ramming you, find a way to chase him away. The problem with many rams is after they become friendly, they take that as a submissive behavior so to speak. The are like "Hey I'm the boss now!" and then they will ram you. I hope you can work with him, even though you may want him to be friendly, a ram that is running away, is much safer.


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## mysunwolf (Nov 15, 2016)

Is he about 18 months old? That's when they usually begin this behavior. It often happens to rams that were friendlier when they were young, but not always. He's definitely dangerous at this stage.

You can try all kinds of things, but in my experience the ram will be deterred by your actions only temporarily. He will try to ram you again someday. As a temporary solution, tying him to the fence is a great option. I correct the ramming behavior by grabbing a ram when he is about to charge me and flipping him onto his butt then holding him there for a while. Just keep doing this until he stops trying to charge you. Like I said, this is only a temporary solution: he may try again later that day, or he may wait and try again in a few months, but he will try again. The only success I have heard of is with the cattle prod, but I have no personal experience with this method.

When my rams get aggressive, we pen them when they are not breeding so that we can still go in with the ewes (it is a pain to haul water separately). And then we butcher them when their services are no longer needed.


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## WindyIndy (Nov 15, 2016)

Luvmyoets: I'm sorry about your ram, but glad you have his son. I have Chew's son too that I thought about using, but I have his mothers and half sisters and I know they can't breed half sisters. 

I have tried water before as I was filling the tanks and that did help, maybe a spray bottle? Sadly he is way to big for me to flip (he's at least 250lbs). I have tried to chase him away, but that only makes things worse, he'll try to come at me harder. As for him being friendly, I would MUCH rather him NOT be friendly! I know you should never have a bottle ram just for that reason.

mysunwolf: Yes he's about 19 months, he will be 2 in March. I do pen him separately until breeding time. I put him in with the ewes in November and separate in March sometime. Last year he was starting to ram my girls bellies so I separated him early March so he wouldn't kill the unborn babies.
That does make since about him keep trying, that exactly how he is now. Sometimes he's a perfect angle, other times not.
He wasn't bottle fed, but his grandma was making his mother very friendly. Since his mama was friendly he was more too. And being so new to rams at the time we made the mistake on petting him while he was growing up. I would not play with his head though, I would try and pet under his chin to keep his head up. Sometimes he would try to 'play ruff' or headbutt me and I would get after him then and he would submit pretty quickly. Sometimes he will submit now, but I think it's only half way because as soon as I turn to leave he'll try and sneak up on me. I try and not baby my animals to where they are brats, I do discipline them, but just wasn't sure if there was a better way with a ram. I'm used to horses, dogs, etc
And are you saying you get a new ram every year?


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## norseofcourse (Nov 15, 2016)

WindyIndy said:


> Sadly he is way to big for me to flip (he's at least 250lbs).


Supposedly, it's just a matter of leverage, and if you know the right moves it should be easy to take down a ram no matter the size.  I know it, I've seen people do it, but I have trouble with the technique, even though my ram is smaller than yours.  Do you have anyone close enough that can teach you in person?

I do agree that getting him down and holding him till he stops struggling has a good chance of working.  I had to do that several times with Elding (my ram) last year, till he learned the lesson.  While I had him down on the ground, I would mutter things like "I am in charge of you" and "I could eat you".  Knock on wood, he has behaved himself this year, so far.  But I still stay very aware of where he is and how he is acting.

I will also sometimes leash Elding and walk him with me when I'm in with the sheep.  He doesn't try to ram me when I have him on a leash, though - sounds like it doesn't stop yours?

Elding does behave much better when it's not breeding season.  In January I'll take him out of the ewe's pasture, and he'll live with the ponies again.

I have heard about (but have no personal experience with) things like a spray bottle with water or water/ammonia, and a ram shield (that restricts their forward vision).  Maybe @purplequeenvt , @Roving Jacobs or @Sheepshape and other sheep folks can chime in, too.


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## Sheepshape (Nov 16, 2016)

Rams can be a challenge, especially when they are adolescents. I have only ever had one ram who I could never trust, and I have to confess to being a 'stroker'.

Firstly you must never show fear for a ram. He is programmed to dominate anything which will let him, and always wants to be Top Ram. You must be Top Ram, and he must show respect.

So he's too big to bring down? I have some Blue Faced Leicesters and they are HUGE, so this is familiar territory (however, BFLs are hardly ever aggressive). Make sure you never turn your back on any 'dubious' ram....he'll exploit the situation....so face him full-frontal.Now, what I'm about to describe is my method, and only try this if you are fairly confident around big animals, as to falter and turn to run away could lead to your being painfully butted.

 If you are a 'Happy Slapper' go unarmed, otherwise take a short stick. Stay close to the fence edge, so you can make an escape if you need to. Enter the field and walk confidently.....many rams will take your demeanour as your knowing you are The Boss and won't give you any further trouble. Some will come over slowly, sizing you up. Stand firm and if he starts to put his head down, shout 'No'. This will stop a good many others. The there is the Charger.....he's the tricky on. He will take some steps backwards, head goes down, then he charges full-on in your direction. Side step him when he gets close and at the same time slap him hard across the nose or tap him (not meant to do any damage!) on the nose whilst shouting 'No'. Some rams will re-muster and repeat the ramming, but many don't, and I've never had more than two charges. It's very rare that the ram repeats the 'charge' on subsequent occasions, particularly if you show him the stick/your hand when you next visit the field.

There are, no doubt, some testosterone-fuelled terrors out there. They should not be allowed to breed as aggression is an inherited trait.

Good Luck.


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## Latestarter (Nov 16, 2016)

OK, this will sound complicated but it really isn't, and the ram will be doing all the work. But YOU have to be decisive or you could hurt yourself. When he starts eyeing you and doing the ramming preliminaries, face him directly. You don't have to back down or move toward... Just watch for it. When he puts his head down and starts toward you he will not be able to see what you are doing and will be focused on your legs/feet and lower body.

Determine which of your hands and arms has the most strength and strongest grip.

If you're right handed, just as he's getting to you, step slightly back and to your LEFT and bending down slightly, reach across in front of him with your RIGHT arm and grab hold of his left shin and pull down and toward you hard and fast. Let his momentum carry him forward past you. If you need to, you can use your free hand to push him away as he goes past and aid in the outcome.

If you're left handed, Just as he's getting to you, step slightly back and to your right, and bending down slightly, reach across in front of him and grab hold of his RIGHT shin with your left hand and pull down and toward you hard and fast.  Let his momentum carry him forward past you. If you need to, you can use your free hand to push him away as he goes past and aid in the outcome.

I doesn't matter how heavy he is or how light you are. He is going to lift that inside leg over your arm and therefore his outside leg that you're holding and trip himself and go a$$ over tea kettle onto his side and you want to go down with him so it ends with you laying on top of him. You need to remember to stop pulling as soon as he starts going over or he'll roll completely and end up back on his feet. DO NOT LET GO OF THE LEG! Ideally you want to smother him and get hold of that other front leg and lock him up/hold him down and under you till he submits and lays still.

If he starts fighting as you start to get off, get right back down on him. When you can safely get up off him without him fighting, then do so and then push both legs away from you so he has to roll away to get up himself. Once he's back on his feet, remain dominant and chase him away, maybe with a nice slap to the rump for good measure. You shouldn't have to do this more than a time or two for him to get the point and have it stick with him for quite a while. HOWEVER...

Once a ram has challenged you that first time, you can NEVER trust him again. You must always remain vigilant as rams have killed people before.

If you're not sure of what I described, have your better 1/2 act like the ram and come toward you so you can practice the move so you'll know what you're doing. Ideally you should have someone recording the entire encounter so you can share it here


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## purplequeenvt (Nov 16, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> OK, this will sound complicated but it really isn't, and the ram will be doing all the work. But YOU have to be decisive or you could hurt yourself. When he starts eyeing you and doing the ramming preliminaries, face him directly. You don't have to back down or move toward... Just watch for it. When he puts his head down and starts toward you he will not be able to see what you are doing and will be focused on your legs/feet and lower body.
> 
> Determine which of your hands and arms has the most strength and strongest grip.
> 
> ...



Having had my arms almost ripped out of their sockets by grabbing at sheep as they run by, I'm not sure I'd recommend this method. Also, most people do not have the agility to grab a sheep's leg and flip it while managing to stay out of the way of it's head and other flying body parts. 

I also prefer to rule my ram flock with mutual respect and not an iron fist. I don't want them to be afraid of me, in fact I WANT them to come up to me for attention. I don't want a ram that runs in terror because he thinks he's going to get whacked, shocked, or otherwise hurt for looking at his shepherd wrong. Those rams end up being the most dangerous. 

Some people swear by the spray bottle method. I'm not a fan because often the sheep will learn that he only has to behave when you have that object in your hands. Same with a stick or electric prod. Rams aren't stupid. 

ALTHOUGH, a couple good zaps can often knock some sense back into a ram that's being stupid. Just don't depend on the prod to deal with him. We had a (purchased) ram get aggressive during breeding season. He was at someone else's farm and he decided to that butting her was a good idea. NOT. Next time she went in the pen she brought her prod. He came after her and got a shock that set him back on his hunches. He tried it again the next day. Same thing. Never again. He's been on his best behavior ever since. 

We start training our rams as lambs to be handled. They are halter trained and played around with. Some of them are taken to shows. We never allow them to climb on us or rub their heads on us in play. As a result of how they are raised, they go on to be sweet and gentle, even as adult breeding rams. We sold a ram to a local farm (Shelburne Farms) that is a working farm on a big estate (it's open to public/educational/museum) a couple years ago. He is the biggest puppy ever. He is so gentle and well-mannered that they use him as their hands-on animal. They've even taken him into the city to do educational events with him. 

We have also had a number of bottle lambs go on to be excellent (and well-behaved) breeding rams. 

In dealing with your current situation, @WindyIndy, you can either send this ram to slaughter and start over or you can try to retrain him. 

Don't do anything to antagonize him like spraying him in the face with a spray bottle, waving your hands or kicking at him. Try catching him and flipping him (not while he's charging you. BAD idea. You will get hurt). There is the "professional" way which involves cranking their head back at an angle and applying pressure on the hip to knock them off balance. I'm not great at flipping them like that (you have to be able to do it quickly, otherwise they tense up and it's much harder to tip them) so I tend to hold the head and reach over the top and under them for the opposite rear leg. Pick the leg up and pull. He should go right down (rams can be much harder to tip!). Either leave him laying on his side, keeping pressure on him so he stays down until you let him up OR grab his front legs and pull him up onto his butt. Do this on a regular basis so he gets used to idea of YOU being in charge. It may not fix the problem. Some rams are just mean. No amount of work can fix it. 

Another tip is to catch and halter him whenever you are in the pen. He goes wherever you go. If you need both hands to do something, tie him nearby. Then you are able to work safely and he is learning that you are in charge. 

Separating him from the ewes is a good idea after breeding season. If he is pushy with them he could easily cause them to lose their lambs. Don't pen him up by himself though. A ram alone in a small pen is a recipe for a mean ram. They get lonely and bored and often end up extremely frustrated and destructive.


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## Bossroo (Nov 16, 2016)

I have played all high school sports including football ( quite good as left guard and linebacker ) not to mention the hundreds of rams and a few  beef and dairy bulls that I handled, and I would have trouble with it in at least 75% of the time.  Yes, I can and did throw many a ram on it's keester but that works until the next time which could be a few minutes , a day / week/ month or two .  All they understand is might is power, so  I carried a 2' long chain of good diameter that the rams and bulls had great respect for it after being suddenly attacked by it the first time due to their aggressive behavior.


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## Sheepshape (Nov 17, 2016)

I personally don't think showing a ram who is The Boss is all about strength and brutality. Watch rams when they are 'sorting out the pecking order' in a field. A lot of posturing, coming up to each other and sizing each other up, humping and generally treating the other rams as though they are ewes on heat, but not so much real fighting.Unless they are pretty much size-matched, the less dominant ram often concedes defeat and aggressive fighting stops. (I accept this is not always the case).
I am about capable of wrestling a puppy to the ground, but almost always have managed to gain respect without ever resorting to either getting hurt or ever really hurting much more than any ram's pride. A short stick a sharp tap on the nose and a last minute side step (occasionally) have won the day every time (and I have had 50 or so sheep for over 10 years, so I'm not a total greenhorn). The one ram which I had about 5 years ago (Ivor the A***hole) who would always try to be dominant and had a permanent footprint on his unruly forehead was snapped up by my neighbour due to his physical appearance. (Neighbour has several thousand sheep, was made fully aware of his aggressive nature, and was still very keen to have him).
So, confront this young upstart, re-affirm who is Boss, and don't ever pat or rub his head which he may misinterpret (Besides which, at breeding season, they STINK!)

Good Luck


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## Beekissed (Nov 17, 2016)

I had a visiting ram for breeding once that would get a little bumpy when my back was turned, especially at feeding time.  I'd let him run towards me, side step him, but grab his haunches right over the loins with clawed hands and kind of goose him forward like that.  Sheep HATE that hold...don't know if it reminds them of predators or maybe the dominant ram riding them, but a few times of that and he settled right down.  They also hate an ear hold, so that may be an option, to snag an ear as they pass by and just give it a sharp yank like a predator would.  

Don't know if a nice shock collar with remote control feature would help?  Just need to shave a place on his neck so the prongs make good contact, but wonder if that would be a good deterrent.


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## SheepGirl (Nov 17, 2016)

I've owned a few different rams (but been around many from my neighbor's).

First one I raised from a lamb. Treated him like a pet since I thought he had been wethered. (He was "castrated" with the burdizzo emasculator instead of an elastrator so we were unsure what it would look like. Apparently it wasn't successful.) He was aggressive and honestly I was scared of him. He would try to attack me through the fence. I took him to auction.

Second one I had for two years. He was calm when he was with other sheep, but when he was by himself he was aggressive. I avoided going in with him and I had it set up so I could feed and water over the fence. If I did have to go in with him, I would put a halter on him and lead him around with me. He never acted aggressive when it was like that. If I didn't have a halter on me, I took a piece of baling twin and tied it around his neck and lead him around like that. It had the same effect.

Third one I had for a few months and then I had him butchered. He was aggressive. He would come at me so I would go back at him and put him on the ground. I would get irritated with his disrespectful attitude so I would go at him as he was coming at me (or after he was done) and I would put him on the ground and lay on him. He would be good for a week or two and then he would need a lesson again. After he was done breeding he was promptly moved out of the ewe pasture into his own pen. I wasn't going to let him prevent me from enjoying my flock. My fiance's family ended up eating him.

Now I have one (son of the second one, maternal half brother of the first one) who is a total sweetheart. People say you shouldn't trust rams--and I agree--but I trust this one. He was born Feb 2014 and he is a total sweetheart. Doesn't always come up to me, but when he does he usually stands there and lets me touch him all over. Very complacent little creature. I was relatively hands off when I raised him (he was wild as are all my other lambs for the most part), he only got friendly when I penned him up away from ram #3 because ram #3 always went after this guy and there was an 80 lb +/- difference between the two. So it was for his protection. He is so well mannered that I can keep him with the ewes year round and he's in with the lambs no problem. He does get a little pushy at feeding time, but so does everyone else.


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## Baymule (Nov 17, 2016)

All of these methods of handling an aggressive ram are very educational to me. I have had a ram since June. So far he is not aggressive.  I observe all the proper "ram etiquette". I don't want an aggressive ram. I want to thank all of you who have told us your methods of handling your rams.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 17, 2016)

I intend to  have sheep in the future so this is interesting to me as well.  Personally I don't typically breed overly aggressive animals because aggression tends to be hereditary.  But I don't know much about rams or the likelihood of finding one that isn't aggressive! I know one thing,  I'm more likely to go with  the tie him up route than the tackle him route if it becomes necessary,  having a bad back and all! Thanks all for your insight!


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## Bossroo (Nov 17, 2016)

Sheepshape said:


> I personally don't think showing a ram who is The Boss is all about strength and brutality. Watch rams when they are 'sorting out the pecking order' in a field. A lot of posturing, coming up to each other and sizing each other up, humping and generally treating the other rams as though they are ewes on heat, but not so much real fighting.Unless they are pretty much size-matched, the less dominant ram often concedes defeat and aggressive fighting stops. (I accept this is not always the case).
> I am about capable of wrestling a puppy to the ground, but almost always have managed to gain respect without ever resorting to either getting hurt or ever really hurting much more than any ram's pride. A short stick a sharp tap on the nose and a last minute side step (occasionally) have won the day every time (and I have had 50 or so sheep for over 10 years, so I'm not a total greenhorn). The one ram which I had about 5 years ago (Ivor the A***hole) who would always try to be dominant and had a permanent footprint on his unruly forehead was snapped up by my neighbour due to his physical appearance. (Neighbour has several thousand sheep, was made fully aware of his aggressive nature, and was still very keen to have him).
> So, confront this young upstart, re-affirm who is Boss, and don't ever pat or rub his head which he may misinterpret (Besides which, at breeding season, they STINK!)
> 
> Good Luck


Back in the day when breeding wool sheep was profitable,  I used to buy Ramboulett and Merino ram lambs and grow them out for Yearling Ram Sales.  Now these ram lambs are all horned and the jousting was a daily occurnace on a 1/4 acre dry lot with up to 15 other horned  yearling rams.  Try walking into that every day to feed and attend to them for any minor sign of an injury or illness  and not be challenged by several rams with raging hormones .  I swear on a stack of Bibles that this is true as I had just came out first thing in the morning to feed and see it happen.  One of my Suffolk ( polled ) yearling rams somehow managed to get into that dry lot at night that had a 12' alleyway between the  dry lots to his with about 20 other Suffolk yearling rams. As I came into view,   he was breathing heavily and foaming from his mouth while fighting 3 rams at the same time. He had just then MORTALLY  WOUNDED one of the horned rams when butting heads and hit his rival's nasal bones which fractured them which in turn severed his blood vessels then drowned in his own blood.  No short stick or a tap on the nose would discourage the rest of the rams from attacking anyone as most of them were having their own matches.  It took hours before I could separate the combatants and catch the Suffolk with the help of 2 neighbors and by that time the injured ram was dead.  We used Shepherds' Hooks to aid in the seperations and catching the Suffolk by his hind leg with the hook. I guess there may be a difference between a couple of rams and a whole bunch of rams in the same pen / pasture.


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## Baymule (Nov 17, 2016)

What a mess to have to deal with!  That Suffolk ram was one big bad boy! Your narrative serves as a reminder to not ever turn our backs on a ram, whether we have one or a pasture full of them.


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## Sheepshape (Nov 18, 2016)

Testosterone has a lot to answer for! Those delightful little bundles of treble baaaahs, benign head rubs, and and lovely little faces transform into stinking, snorting hulks of muscle,horn and aggro if they are genetically determined so to do .Don't you just love them? (Maybe not so much!)

Suffice it to say that my one-eyed ram, Popeye, wasn't born a Cyclops. He's a gentle giant who happened to be in the path of an adolescent horned ram, all testosterone and no control buttons, and the gentle Popeye suffered severe concussion and eye loss as a result. All I suffered was a very reasonable vet bill for treatment and enucleation accompanied by praise from the vet about choosing treatment over euthanasia.The nasty Rastus, the aggressor suffered a less kindly fate.

The ram lambs who are programmed to be be aggressive usually show it early on......fighting with other lambs, being over-confident, chasing ewes at an early age. Even if very good examples of their breed type, I wouldn't keep them as they will be Trouble once puberty hits.There are plenty of good rams out there and (slightly more than) 50% of all lambs born will be ram lambs, so ditch mini Master Nasty before he becomes mega Mr Nightmare.

With regards to 'taming' rams which are yearlings or adults, take your pick as to which technique takes your fancy (or doesn't fill you with terror!) If it doesn't work for you, then  get rid of him pretty smartly.

Have fun, folks!


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## WindyIndy (Nov 20, 2016)

Thank you all for the GREAT advice!

I haven't tried flipping him, I just don't think I could. I have though twisted his years, chased him, tied him up, walked him, and smacked him in the nose with my carrot stick when he's coming at me. That seems to be working for now. When I do get after him he will turn around and walk away like he's submitting, but as soon as I go to leave he's right back at it. One reason why if I have to walk though the pasture I tie him up, otherwise I'll do more guarding myself then my work. He seems to not be as bad now that it's colder, or could it just be a coincidence?

And when he's separated from the girls his in a pasture right next to them (they can even touch noses) and I put my wether goat in with him. Since I have put the goat in with him he seems to have calmed down some, thought my goat isn't too happy  I'll keep the ram with the girls until close to lambing time, that's what I did last year and it seemed to work out well. 

PS: And as for rams stinking during breeding, I've never noticed a smell with Chewy


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## Sheepshape (Nov 21, 2016)

WindyIndy said:


> PS: And as for rams stinking during breeding, I've never noticed a smell with Chewy



My rams truly hum. A few weeks back I kept a bunch of ram lambs in the barn for a couple of hours before the guy who had bought them came with his trailer. When I opened the door, the smell nearly knocked us over.

Maybe some rams are stinkier than others, but that stink certainly ups many notches as the breeding season approaches (in line with the noticeable increase in 'scrotal girth').

I find the smell of ewes to be pleasant.....rams?....not so much!

It just occurs to me that ram stink may be one of those things that you can either smell or not due to inherited factors (like digesting the dye in beetroots).I honestly don't curl my top lip and point my nose in the air! It would be interesting to hear if other folk find rams  very stinky!


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## Baymule (Nov 21, 2016)

I haven't noticed my ram being stinky. But I've only had him since June. Maybe there is a month or two where he decides to stink for awhile.


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## Bossroo (Nov 21, 2016)

Sheepshape said:


> My rams truly hum. A few weeks back I kept a bunch of ram lambs in the barn for a couple of hours before the guy who had bought them came with his trailer. When I opened the door, the smell nearly knocked us over.
> 
> Maybe some rams are stinkier than others, but that stink certainly ups many notches as the breeding season approaches (in line with the noticeable increase in 'scrotal girth').
> 
> ...


You had  bunch of ram lambs inside a barn for a few hours.  More than enough time to urinate and deficate.  Ergo , what you are smelling is ammonia fumes from the urine and feces.  When a ram curls his nose, what he is testing for is the estrogen levels of the ewe to see if she is getting ready or is in heat and readiness to be bred.


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## Sheepshape (Nov 22, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> You had  bunch of ram lambs inside a barn for a few hours.  More than enough time to urinate and deficate.  Ergo , what you are smelling is ammonia fumes from the urine and feces.  When a ram curls his nose, what he is testing for is the estrogen levels of the ewe to see if she is getting ready or is in heat and readiness to be bred.



Nope....not just the poo and pee....an additional strong smell. I can have the ewes in the shed for hours (more of them, and very capable of filling the shed with excrement, and it smells just like ......excrement.) 

I'm very familiar with the vomeronal (Flehmen) response. As the vomeronal  (Jacobson's) organ is present in the human foetus, I'm just wondering as to whether mine failed to involute! Maybe I've missed my vocation.


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## Beekissed (Nov 22, 2016)

Bay, the hair sheep don't seem to have that rank smell that woollies have, even in the rams.  I've not noticed any smell in them at all...sort of smell like horses~ hair, sweat and hay.


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## norseofcourse (Nov 22, 2016)

Elding doesn't seem to have a rank smell, either.  Maybe it's the breed?  Anyone else with Icelandics, or Shetlands, Finnsheep, Romanov, Soay - the more primitive type breeds - do your rams have a bad odor?

Elding was acting up a few days ago, so for a few days I put the leash on him and kept him with me when I was in the sheep's pasture.  For the last couple of days he's been more calm and I haven't had to do that.  I wonder if the 'acting up' days are the days someone is in heat and he's more in breeding mode?


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## Baymule (Nov 22, 2016)

@norseofcourse your Elding seems to be an exceptional ram. You are probably right about an ewe being in heat when he's acting up.

I haven't tried to halter my ram up, maybe I should do that. He is calm and friendly, even when I put the 2 keeper ewes in with him and one was in heat. Is it hard to teach them to lead on a halter?


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## norseofcourse (Nov 22, 2016)

Baymule said:


> @norseofcourse your Elding seems to be an exceptional ram. You are probably right about an ewe being in heat when he's acting up.


Thanks - exceptional? - I'll tell him that next time he gets acting stupid!    



> I haven't tried to halter my ram up, maybe I should do that. He is calm and friendly, even when I put the 2 keeper ewes in with him and one was in heat. Is it hard to teach them to lead on a halter?


Go for it!  I don't think it was that hard.  I just treated him like a big ole hairy dog, and used a regular pressure/release method.  Take the slack out of the leash till there's a couple pounds of 'pull' on it, then hold that till he moves toward the pressure, even just a bit - release all pressure.  Repeat.  Took a break and let him graze sometimes.  He learned pretty fast.


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## SheepGirl (Nov 23, 2016)

I've never noticed an unusual smell with my rams. They smell like my ewes, which smell like sheep


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## purplequeenvt (Nov 23, 2016)

Rams can have an odor, mainly during breeding season, but it's usually nothing like a buck smell. Some rams and breeds are stinkier than others. Mature rams will stink more than young boys.


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## BreanneRN (Aug 16, 2018)

My first ram was a big beast, he was most likely a Suffolk/Hampshire cross, Probably weighed 250lbs.  I never turned my back on him.  When young, he would charge me, but he always acted like a bull, would paw the ground and then run with his head down from a long distance.  I would wait til he was close and kick him in the nose as hard as I could. I mostly avoided confrontations with him, but as he got older he quit charging me.  I could see him looking at me and thinking about it then thinking about his nose hurting...  He was not he smartest sheep I've had...  He often got his head stuck in the stock panels and I would have to get my daughter to help pull him out.  I would sit on his back and turn his head while she pulled the fence off him.  He was never aggressive when we had to do that.  The horned sheep I have now are different, they keep their head quite a bit higher when they charge...  I still avoid confrontation, but did have one once, because he was out, and I turned my back after feeding thinking he would eat.  I turned on him and was angry and when he tried it again, I hit him in the nose with the feed bucket.  I never turn my back on any ram and I don't let them run with the ewes...  They are bored and never have enough to do in small holdings...  They pester the ewes like roosters do hens.  They are meant to fight and breed a huge amount of ewes, and that is their nature.  When breeding season comes in fall they get jealous of the ewes and think you want them too!  If I had it to do over again, I would not keep one full time at all, just get one 1seasonally as needed, or use a 5 or 6 month one from the Spring.  In the UK, they keep a public stud and you can check out rams like library books and return them when you are done...  Wish they had something like that here.  It gives small holders an opportunity to use a high quality, proven ram that they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford.  And like I say, they are able to breed so many more than the ewes that most small holders keep.  Anyway, think the nose is the key.  They don't like to be hit there.  It feels good to them to be hit over the head and they are designed to absorb that kind of impact.  And they will want to do it again and again.  My current ram I have had since a weanling and spent some time working with him to make him manageable, but still wouldn't trust him.  And seasonally, he is a pita!  But he is pretty smart and sires nice lambs.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 17, 2018)

Always have a mature, trained Boarder Collie at heel.  BCs job is to nail ram before he nails you.  Otherwise, I would not keep a ram.  My being crippled/killed is not worth keeping a ram.


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## greybeard (Aug 31, 2018)

Beekissed said:


> Bay, the hair sheep don't seem to have that rank smell that woollies have, even in the rams.  I've not noticed any smell in them at all...sort of smell like horses~ hair, sweat and hay.



My brother-in-law's hair sheep have the sheep smell. I can smell it when I come around the corner to his house. 



Donna R. Raybon said:


> Otherwise, I would not keep a ram. My being crippled/killed is not worth keeping a ram.


Same for all livestock species. No herdsire is worth dying over.


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## Buks (Jul 29, 2020)

WindyIndy said:


> My ram Chewbaca has gotten very aggressive within the last few months. I always try and watch my back, but he has gotten me before and even cracked my phone screen that was in my pocket.
> 
> I know he's just being a ram, but I was wondering how you all handle your rams? I have tried to bring sticks or a horse training stick in with me but that doesn't seem to help, only makes things worse. I have waved my hand or put a leg up when he starts coming at me and that works about a handful of times. Maggie even seems to have given up on calling him off. Someone recommended one of the electric cattle prons,. Have you guys ever used one? I was looking at the kind that you need to push the button to shock them with the hopes that just touching him as a warning before shocking would be enough.
> 
> ...


 Hi WindyIndy. I know this post is old ,but after searching the ol'interweb for days looking for answers. I was shocked to find that Google could not andwer this question properly. So I got my brain in gear. I recently aquired a ram that is 3 years old and was bottle reared he got me on sunday real good I went flying through the gate which happened to be closed moments before... yesterday I got a brilliant idea...... pepper spray. I had to go on his pen to take out some hay to share with the others as he had an entire round bale with him... He did not waste any time and charged. I got him on the left eye really good. He took two steps back and came at me again I got him in his left eye this time he have up for about 2 minutes and tried a third time at which point I sprayed him again this time in the mouth area as well. He gave up completely after that. Now when he tries to charge I raise my hand as if to spray him and make a hissing sound trying to imitate the sound the spray bottle makes he now stops immediately and walks away. I don't think I will ever go in the rams pen without pepper spray again


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## Sheepshape (Jul 30, 2020)

Glad you found a solution, but water in a spray bottle is a gentler, though effective, deterrent.

A short stick to tap him on the nose would also probably also work.....shout 'No" at the same time. I mean tap as well, not a hefty blow. A slap works fine, too. It's the shock that 'cures' them....they don't expect it. After a couple of taps generally all that you need to do should he start to dip his head and look aggressive is shout 'No'.

All these techniques work best when a ram lamb is reaching adolescence. A mature ram can be much more of a problem. What the ram needs to know is that you are 'Head Ram' and that you will not tolerate it. Most rams will become respectful and make no attempt to head butt if properly managed. there are, however, some who will never do this. They are lamb chops......and I'm vegetarian.


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## Buks (Jul 30, 2020)

Sheepshape said:


> Glad you found a solution, but water in a spray bottle is a gentler, though effective, deterrent.
> 
> A short stick to tap him on the nose would also probably also work.....shout 'No" at the same time. I mean tap as well, not a hefty blow. A slap works fine, too. It's the shock that 'cures' them....they don't expect it. After a couple of taps generally all that you need to do should he start to dip his head and look aggressive is shout 'No'.
> 
> All these techniques work best when a ram lamb is reaching adolescence. A mature ram can be much more of a problem. What the ram needs to know is that you are 'Head Ram' and that you will not tolerate it. Most rams will become respectful and make no attempt to head butt if properly managed. there are, however, some who will never do this. They are lamb chops......and I'm vegetarian.


None of these techniques I tried worked I tried them all. I am in South Africa and we're talking about a 105kg Dorper Ram roughly 220lbs of sheep. We trimmed his hooves yesterday and he did not charge me I flipped him on his side and no problems.


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## Buks (Jul 31, 2020)

This guy broke out of his pen this morning. I had to get him back in. It was a breeze I think I stopped his nonsense he came when called walked alongside me and went back in his pen easy.. his name is Sheldon by the way and this is the troublemaker that tasted the pepper spray.


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## Nao57 (Aug 26, 2020)

SheepGirl said:


> I've owned a few different rams (but been around many from my neighbor's).
> 
> First one I raised from a lamb. Treated him like a pet since I thought he had been wethered. (He was "castrated" with the burdizzo emasculator instead of an elastrator so we were unsure what it would look like. Apparently it wasn't successful.) He was aggressive and honestly I was scared of him. He would try to attack me through the fence. I took him to auction.
> 
> ...



If castration didn't solve the aggressiveness that makes sense, because their instinct is to protect the flock from lots of stuff besides rams, like coyotes, wolves, etc in the wilds.


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## Nao57 (Aug 26, 2020)

Bossroo said:


> You had  bunch of ram lambs inside a barn for a few hours.  More than enough time to urinate and deficate.  Ergo , what you are smelling is ammonia fumes from the urine and feces.  When a ram curls his nose, what he is testing for is the estrogen levels of the ewe to see if she is getting ready or is in heat and readiness to be bred.


I agree. Lots of animals have a lot of ammonia build up when they are closed in.


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## Nao57 (Aug 26, 2020)

So I'm curious, does it make a difference in the ram's aggressiveness, if he's with females or others at the time you approach, as opposed to alone? What do you think?


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## Beekissed (Aug 26, 2020)

Nao57 said:


> So I'm curious, does it make a difference in the ram's aggressiveness, if he's with females or others at the time you approach, as opposed to alone? What do you think?



Yep, especially in breeding season.  Hormones are up and rams get feisty then.   

Best cure is prevention.  I start with young ram lambs that are too friendly by grabbing them around the loins when they get in my personal space.   This gooses them up and away.  If I walk by and they don't immediately move out of my way, I do the same.   No prey animal wants to be attacked from behind and I want my rams to know I'm a predator, not a sheep.   

Do the same with roosters that get in my personal bubble, even if they are just walking to the coop alongside me...I'll reach down and grab their tail, make them jump and run.    They need to know I don't like  my personal space violated. 

I've only ever had problems with ram lambs that someone petted around, hand fed or babied in any way...but those were soon corrected.  Katahdin rams are usually pretty docile to handle, so it doesn't take much to teach them some respect.  That's one more reason I love the Katahdin breed.


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