# Orphan ram in trouble! (EMERGENCY!!)



## littlelambx3 (Mar 25, 2013)

I rescued an orphan ram on Wednesday 3/20. He is an Icelandic 7-8 day old male. He is pretty light in weight and on the small side, I am guessing a runt. His eyes are clear, his mouth and gums look fine, and he is still the complete sweetheart that he normally is. He was only 2 days old when I got him and was very weak. He was found outside under a tree, weak and sick looking, and his previous owner called me asking if I wanted him. Of course I said yes, and got him that day. 

He was fine the first 2 days, he was almost perfect! He took his bottle amazing, without any issue or trouble at all and ate on a schedule. He was playful and had plenty of energy. He is currently in my house, due to being so little and needing to be bottle fed, and also the freezing cold Ohio climate. He loves attention and is all around such a sweetheart! He was going to the bathroom perfectly, his poop and pee looked just the way it should. Then things changed. 

On Saturday (3/23), I noticed he was not hungry as much. He would turn the bottle away and then lay down. But then at other times, he took it immediately and ate a decent amount. He was not as playful and slept throughout most of the day. 

Fast forward to Sunday night (3/24-3/25), around 1:00am. I wake up to him screaming his head off, so I think he is just hungry. I made his bottle, and then when I got to him, he was covered in watery green diarrhea. He had normally a yellow paste like poop, and then to this. I knew that it could be a serious issue, so I got him fluids (watered down formula)and gave him some medicine to calm down the diarrhea. It worked and he slept the remaining of the night. 
Now it is Monday, and he has diarrhea again! He is also turning down his bottle. I was notified just a few minutes ago he did NOT get his first drink from his mom and has not had any colostrum, and no one told me this until now. I have an idea of what I should do, but want to hear other opinions on this situation. 
He is in great living condition, and is cleaned after every time he uses the bathroom. I make sure his butt is completely washed after each poop. He is kept in a very clean area, and is checked on and cleaned often. His mouth/gums look fine, and I don't see any sores or anything. His eyelids look a bit pale, and when I pinched his skin to see if he was dehydrated he in fact IS.

I am feeding him MannaPro Lamb Milk Replacer. He is fed 6 times a day, between 2-4 hours, depending on if he takes the bottle. I am following the directions as they say, but did water down the formula last night because I thought maybe it was too rich for his stomach to take. 


I plan on getting him colostrum mix and some electrolytes (I was thinking Pedialyte or even a home made remedy, if you have any please suggest!) 

Please, if you have ANY thoughts, feel free to post. I really don't want to lose this little boy! Any advice is needed and appreciated, thanks so much!


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## BrownSheep (Mar 25, 2013)

I would skip the colostrum at this point it won't do him much good, but it can't hurt either. Most definitely get him some pedialyte. 

How much are you feeding him per feeding....six times a day seems a bit much to me but really depends on quantity.


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 25, 2013)

I knew that at this point the colostrum would not do much, but I guess I am just am going into panic mode and want to try whatever I can to save this little boy. 

I am feeding him 6 times a day due to the fact he barely drinks his bottle. Whenever he does eat well, maybe out of the 6 times it's 2 or 3 actual GOOD feedings. He seems to be more so not wanting to eat than to eat. I thought I was over feeding him myself, until I realized that he was not getting the amount he needed. It's between 2-4 ounces per feeding, but I know he is not getting near 4 at all.


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## BrownSheep (Mar 25, 2013)

We've had luck with Peptobismo ( there are others who disagree with peptobismo usage) , electrolytes, and yogurt.
Peptobismo helps slow the diarrhea, electrolytes keep them hydrated, and the yogurt help put the proper probiotics back in their bellies. 

I'll see if I can find the directions I used.


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 25, 2013)

I just got him to take a bottle and he ate a good amount! But he kept coughing and rasping after the feeding. Almost as if he were choking..

I gave him Pepto last night and early this morning. The diarrhea is gone as of right now. He seems a bit restless, and wobbles whenever he stands up. The room he is in is nice and toasty, and he is not shaking or anything. He seems a bit lifeless in a sense...


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 25, 2013)

Also, thanks Brownsheep! Appreciate your advice.


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## SheepGirl (Mar 25, 2013)

What's his temp?

I would give him a couple pumps of Nutri Drench and see if that gives him any energy.


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## boykin2010 (Mar 25, 2013)

Try giving him smaller amounts of milk at a time. Like feed 1-2 ounces take the bottle away and then count to 20 seconds. Then give another 1-2 ounces and count to 20. Repeat this until the bottle is gone. I have found that bottle lambs tend to drink milk way to fast and the natural way would be to take a couple sips then the mother will kick them off. Naturally raised lambs dont drink that much milk at once.  Also, make sure he is up and playing with other lambs (or goats, or whatever else is available) 

You may try putting some probiotics in the water also - wont hurt


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 26, 2013)

UPDATE 3/26/13

My little boy is not doing well. I got him fluids, both pedialyte and Nutri-Drench. He still takes his bottle though and wants to eat. He has no temp. He has barely any energy and just wants to sleep. He had awful diarrhea again but I got it to stop. His eyelids are really white, so I'm guessing he is anemic. His nose is a bit cold but my room is super warm. I even had a heater next to him and he was still shaking? I don't know what else to do.


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## Roving Jacobs (Mar 26, 2013)

I wrote this in the thread in the sheep section because I didn't notice this one yesterday.

I would take a fecal to the vet ASAP. Lambs are super susceptible to all sorts of things, especially things like coccidia, which can kill so fast. Does he have a fever? Have you given him some probios?

Personally I don't like feeding lamb replacer either and haven't had good luck with it. Lots of scouring babies. Goat milk is great if you know someone with goats who might share. I've also used a formula where you take a gallon of whole milk and pour out 3.5 cups (save it for later), add to the jug 2 cups of buttermilk, a can of evaporated milk and then top it off with heavy cream. Be sure to shake well before using. It was kind of a pain to prepare and I much prefer to use goat milk now but my lamb thrived on it at the time. Even plain whole cows milk is better than most replacers in my experience.

I would just give him electrolytes for a while and see if that clears up the scours. If so than its the formula causing the issue. Definitely take a fecal to the vet though! Cocci can do permanent damage even if you catch it in time to save the lamb.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 26, 2013)

I think it's a little too early for this lamb to have cocci.  I'd recommend taking him to the vet and asking them to do an intraperitoneal dextrose injection.  What do you mean he has no temp?  Do you mean no fever?  All animals have a temperature.  What exactly is his?  If he's hypothermic, this is the quickest way to help him out. He also needs an IV perhaps, or just fluids (lactated ringers solution) subcutaneously.  I really think he's having issues because he never had colostrum.   Ask your vet if they have access to Bovi Sera, or call around lots of different vets to see if they have it.  That could possibly help him out if he's not too bad off.


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 26, 2013)

UPDATE 3/26/13 

So I got him to walk around for a bit and play with me. Lately he has had no energy and just wants to sleep. Thankfully, he liked playing with me and that lasted for about 10 minutes. I then gave him more Nutri-Drench. I gave it early this morning, and then tonight. It seems to have helped with his energy level and also his appetite. I gave him a bottle with his formula and electrolytes. He then immediately started having diarrhea again, so I think he is having a bad reaction to his formula. For right now, I am not giving him anymore of his formula and am sticking with just giving him fluids (Pedialyte). 
He likes the Pedialtye a lot and got a good amount of it. I am going to keep him on just the fluids for a day or two and see if the diarrhea stops. If so, then I think I am most likely going to switch his formula. 

He has perked up a bit and seems more in tune with everything. He is responding to me and his surroundings. I am trying to keep the diarrhea at bay, using pepto. But I don't want to use too much of it. I've only given it to him twice since I've had him. 

What I meant by no temp was by not having a fever. 

I am going to be calling a vet tomorrow, hopefully they can see me asap. He is doing better than before, but still not so hot.


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## BrownSheep (Mar 26, 2013)

suddenly changing his formula will hurt more than help!


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 27, 2013)

I would get a fecal done.  I assume lambs can suffer Clostridium C and D?  I'd consider maybe that.  Do you have antitoxin available?

Good luck!


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 27, 2013)

What kind of milk replacer is he on?  If he's on some "all species" milk replacer or something cheap, switch him over to an all-milk protein good quality one.


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 27, 2013)

BrownSheep said:
			
		

> suddenly changing his formula will hurt more than help!


What would you suggest I do? Half and half? Half the time give him his formula, the other half give him his electrolytes?


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 27, 2013)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> What kind of milk replacer is he on?  If he's on some "all species" milk replacer or something cheap, switch him over to an all-milk protein good quality one.


He is currently on Manna Pro Lamb Milk Instantized Milk Replacer. Do you suggest something else?


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 27, 2013)

SkyWarrior said:
			
		

> I would get a fecal done.  I assume lambs can suffer Clostridium C and D?  I'd consider maybe that.  Do you have antitoxin available?
> 
> Good luck!


Thank you for your concern, it is much appreciated! 

And Antitoxin? I'm not sure..
Is there anything you suggest?


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 27, 2013)

UPDATE 3/27/13

This morning he was crying a good amount, which he has not done in a while. I got him a bottle of Pedialyte and he took it instantly. He got a good amount of it. Then I noticed that he was foaming from the mouth. It was a white color. I am not sure if it was from him drinking too fast or not. He is not foaming from the mouth anymore though. I changed his diaper, and he has diarrhea AGAIN. Does anyone suggest a home made remedy for it, or another medication to stop it? I've been using Pepto. I just don't know what is causing this. I am unsure if I have any antibiotics around, but am going to be calling the vet sometime today. He has not gotten any worse, he still is his total sweetheart self. Just a poor sick boy.


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 27, 2013)

Another Update.. 

So I got him Dumor Blue Ribbon Electrolyte Supplement for Stress and Scours. He took it immediately and enjoyed it. He still is going through scours though. I can't find a vet who deals with sheep yet, but I am continuing to look around. He seems to be doing well today, much more perkier and happier than yesterday.

So far, this is all that I have been giving him.

1.Pedialtye 2-4x a day.
2.Manna Pro Lamb Milk Replacer. Was giving it around 4-6x a day, now only going to give it 1-2x a day.
3.Nutri-Drench 2x a day (at least every other day)
4.Dumor Blue Ribbon Electrolyte Supplement for Stress and Scours 3-5x a day.
5.Pepto for the diarrhea when needed.
6.A paste like substance orally. It looked and smelled like Charcoal. I forget the name!

If anyone has any other suggestions, please feel free! Thanks to everyone who has given advice. It is much appreciated and I am super thankful for this website!


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 27, 2013)

Roving Jacobs said:
			
		

> I wrote this in the thread in the sheep section because I didn't notice this one yesterday.
> 
> I would take a fecal to the vet ASAP. Lambs are super susceptible to all sorts of things, especially things like coccidia, which can kill so fast. Does he have a fever? Have you given him some probios?
> 
> ...


Do you have any suggestions for another formula I could buy? I got him the Dumor Blue Ribbon Electrolyte Supplement for Stress and Scours and he seems to really enjoy that a lot.

I don't have milking goats, and my pregnant female needs all her milk right now, because I have a feeling she is going to kid at least 2 or 3. But you suggested cows milk.. Any certain kind? How about soy?


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## babsbag (Mar 27, 2013)

I have no experience with sheep, but I rasie my bottle goat kids on whole cows milk from the store. I just warm it a little. I would not do soy, no doucmentation as to why, just my gut feeling. 

Some one gave this to me last year and it worked really well to stop scours. Where it says "I" that is my friend, not me. I have used it but never made it myself. Again, we used it on goats.

1 tsp cinnamon
1 tsp clove
2 tsp ginger
2 tsp slippery elm (health food stores or Hoeggers Goat Supply)
1 tsp garlic ( I use liquid)
2 cups of water

Bring to slow simmer on low heat while stirring.
I then place in jar and cover and allow to cool for about 20 minutes.
I have been using it for
the past few years with awesome results.
Give 6-12 cc's orally several times a day.
I have also mixed it with scour halt with very good results

Since I already had some of this mixed up I then added:
cayenne and thyme. I used a teaspoon of each because my babies are in the 50-70 pound range, well, most of them, Figured it wouldn't hurt the little babies.


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 27, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I have no experience with sheep, but I rasie my bottle goat kids on whole cows milk from the store. I just warm it a little. I would not do soy, no doucmentation as to why, just my gut feeling.
> 
> Some one gave this to me last year and it worked really well to stop scours. Where it says "I" that is my friend, not me. I have used it but never made it myself. Again, we used it on goats.
> 
> ...


I will try that when I can get all the ingredients.. But that's only if my poor boy is alive. He has turned for the worst and I'm trying everything I can and nothing is helping. I have a feeling I am going to lose him.. And if he continues down this path for the next week tops, I am putting him down. It's the most humane thing to do. I've tried so much, and all has failed so far. If this is how his life is going to be, I won't make him suffer.


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## babsbag (Mar 27, 2013)

I am really sorry, it is hard to lose the babies. 

If he didn't get any colostrum he had an uphill battle to start with, it is too bad they didn't tell you that when they gave him to you. At least you have made him as warm and as comfortable as you could. He knows he is loved.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 28, 2013)

Have you been able to call a vet and ask if they have Bovi-sera?  What is his temperature? What exactly does the diarrhea look like?  His stool should be soft, not pellets.  If it's watery then that's diarrhea, but if it's pudding like that's normal.  

Here's what I would do:

Stop giving the Nutridrench, stop the pepto.   Give the lamb a little baking soda mixed with water (make a paste and give him a dose of that, try 1/2 tsp for now).  Pick one electrolyte supplement (either pedialyte or the Dumor) and stick with that.  Then feed that and milk, but not at the same time.  Feed electrolytes, then a few hours later milk, etc.  You may want to try mixing the replacer slightly weak for a couple days to see if that improves anything.  

I really think he's just having troubles because he never got colostrum.  Bovi-sera is really important to try to get, and you can even order it online if you can't find a vet that has it.  Hoegger sells it, and I would order it ASAP!  That'll help his immune system, which is crucial if he's going to survive.  

Good luck!


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## Four Winds Ranch (Mar 28, 2013)

I wouldn't give up on him yet!!!! If he is willing to eat and fight through he might make it!!! I have had lambs before that were so bad  that I had to drip electrolytes in their mouth with a syringe and make them swallow, and even then some of them ended up making it!!!!  
Good luck!!!
Some bottle babies are alot of work unfortunatly, but worth it when they pull through!!!


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 28, 2013)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> Have you been able to call a vet and ask if they have Bovi-sera?  What is his temperature? What exactly does the diarrhea look like?  His stool should be soft, not pellets.  If it's watery then that's diarrhea, but if it's pudding like that's normal.
> 
> Here's what I would do:
> 
> ...


I am going to try that solution tonight. I have not given any pepto today, and he still has diarrhea. I am going to give him the the Dumor Electrolyte and his regular formula. I am doing 80/20. 80% of the time I am giving him the electrolyte and the rest of the time I am giving him his formula. He has diarrhea either way, and nothing has helped thus far. It is not pudding like, it is pure liquid and it's a yellow/green color. And smells really bad. I am going to call my vet/look around for the Bovi-sera. But may I ask what exactly it is for and such?


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Four Winds Ranch said:
			
		

> I wouldn't give up on him yet!!!! If he is willing to eat and fight through he might make it!!! I have had lambs before that were so bad  that I had to drip electrolytes in their mouth with a syringe and make them swallow, and even then some of them ended up making it!!!!
> Good luck!!!
> Some bottle babies are alot of work unfortunatly, but worth it when they pull through!!!


You got that right!!!
He is seriously around the clock care. There are times I don't sleep for a day or two, because of him! He needs so much care and attention, not to mention if I leave the room, he goes insane and screams his head off. I have not left my house is 10 days and have spent all my time with him. I love him and I want him to survive, I just can't wait for a good night rest again.


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 28, 2013)

UPDATE 3/28/13

Little Max is crazy today. He is full of energy and has been playing a lot of today. I gave him a bath today because he was covered in his poo. 
But he seems really happy, even if he is sick. He loves to play, and seems to dislike feet. He always is trying to head butt my feet, haha.

I am now going to be giving him the following..
Dumor Blue Ribbon Electrolyte Supplement for Stress and Scours
MannaPro Lamb Milk Replacer
And also try a home made remedy for diarrhea later on today.

I am so confused by this little guy. One minute he is doing really bad, and I fear for him, and the next, he is running around my living room.


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## promiseacres (Mar 28, 2013)

hoping hes thru the bad times!


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## babsbag (Mar 28, 2013)

littlelambx3 said:
			
		

> I am going to call my vet/look around for the Bovi-sera. But may I ask what exactly it is for and such?


This is from the web. I think it is the passive immune system failure that you are trying to combat with this. I have never used it but sounds good. 

_Bovi Sera is an absolute MUST HAVE for any goat owner. Useful in the prevention and treatment of conditions such as pneumonia and enterotoxemia, passive immune failure in newborns and shipping fever complex in adults, Bova Sera provides an immediate boost to the immune system allowing goats to get back on their feet._

Glad he is acting better today. Is is possible that he has a bacterial gut infection? The bad smell makes me wonder.


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## littlelambx3 (Mar 28, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> littlelambx3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am going to try and get my hands on some! But he is not a goat.. He is a little lamb. Is it okay for sheep?

I am glad to see some energy and spunk in him too. But then it seems it just makes him feel worse after the energy burst dies down. His diarrhea is so bad. It's like a mucky green yellow color and it like water. Nothing solid at all. I have some good hay in his basket and he seems to be really into it. But I don't think he is actually eating it quite yet. 

At this point, I feel like anything is possible. Between his symptoms and everything I've read, there are so many different things.. It overwhelms me! 

But I am having a hard time finding a vet who takes farm animals, so I may have to travel a bit and I'm not sure how he'd do on the road..


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## babsbag (Mar 28, 2013)

I am pretty sure that the person that suggested it raises sheep too. Here is a link to the one on Jeffers site and it says it is for sheep. The other one was from Hoeggers catalog. 

http://www.jefferspet.com/bovi-sera-serum-antibodies/camid/liv/cp/0034941/

I am sure you searched to web but I came across this.

_Baby lamb scours are due to one of several bacteria: e. coli, salmonella, or clostridium perfringins type C. Adequate intake of colostrum is the best protection against scours.Bacterial scours can be treated with antibiotics and fluid therapy. Spectinomycin oral pig pump is a preferred treatment for baby lamb scours. Its extra-label use requires veterinary approval. There are vaccines for e. coli scours ("watery mouth") and clostridium perfringins type C_.


You can get scour halt (spectinomycin) at tractor supply. I would certainly try that if you haven't already. I know with goats sometimes you just throw the book at them and hope something works. You can also buy C & D antitoxin for the clostridium perfringins type C but it might be hard to find unless you have a good feed store. Some places have it on indefinate backorder. The antitoxin is different that the toxoid vaccine we give at 4 weeks, the antitoxin is usually used for treatment and not prevention.

I would start with the scour halt. But all of this could just be from the milk replacer. That stuff can be nasty.
It is good that you are keeping him hydrated.


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