# Baby angoras - week two pictures (color guesses? updated with parents)



## DianeS (Jan 23, 2011)

I visited my angora litter that is being fostered out, and got new pictures today! Hopefully these are better and some people will be able to guess at their colors. 

First a group picture. Not all of the rabbits are here, we eliminated duplicates just to show the variety of colors.






Here are the three that I believe are plain blacks. The blacks have one normal size, the largest of the litter, and the smallest in the litter. 









This little black one has something wrong with his back leg. Any ideas? He moves OK but spraddles strangely when he's still. It's just the one leg, and he's done it since birth.





And these next ones are various shades of grey. Some are very very light, some medium, some have darker noses and ear tips. 













This one's fur is significantly longer than the others. Is h just developing his fur quicker or does it mean something else?





This one is lighter on his belly than the rest of his fur. (Couldn't get a good picture of it.) This is the one in the very top of the group picture, the one that looks slightly brown.






Mom is a very dark grey, almost black, with some silvery grey guard hairs. No pedigree on her. Dad is a very similar color, with just about everything in his pedigree! Blacks, blues, REW, agouti, fawn, etc.


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## tortoise (Jan 23, 2011)

Black, Blue and lilac, but you might find differently as they grow out.  Some look like they might be shaded?  And the one definitely has chocolate, but it looks more like an agouti than a solid chocolate.

I think you have an interesting mix.  Can you give us the color pedigree on dad's side?  If you can figure out genotype of the buck, you can use the color of the kits to figure out mom's genotype.  That can help you figure out if tipping is agouti, chinchilla, or steel.

Go by mom's head color, not wool color.  A black angora in full wool is going to look like it has a gray body.

Show us photos next week!


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## dbunni (Jan 23, 2011)

Okay.
Black
Black
Black (with splay leg ... sorry ... don't let it suffer too long ... it is not a curable issue)
Lilac (brown tones to the blue)
Lilac/blue?
Blue
Blue ... if this has a good body keep it!  WhoooHooo ... good coat genetics for an EA
Agouti ... something... probably a DQ in the end since the ears, eyerings, and belly are not light enough to carry the body color.

Is mom a black, lilac or blue (gray)?  Check the nose color (not the wool).  Black is obvious, lilac has a brown cast to the blue, blue is gray.  Since you don't know what is behind her, you could have a couple mismarked or smutty colors coming through with the darker ears.

None of this changes the quality/spinability of the wool.  Color is just color when we spin.  The smutt or bad patterns is a show table issue.  Blue does have various shades.  We prefer darker, this gives the best shade for wool.

Cute kiddos ... look in good shape for what they have been through.  Keep up the good work.


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## tortoise (Jan 23, 2011)

Mom could also be a seal?


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## DianeS (Jan 23, 2011)

OK, here's as much info on the parents as I have:

This is mom. The color is as accurate as I could get it, she's a little bit darker than this, the flash lightened her up a little, but the shade is right if you just darken it up a tiny bit. Her fur is white close to the skin. Her face is indeed darker than her body wool, like it shows. (Ignore the greenish splash on her chest, she was playing in the chicken coop.)





Dad's pedigree says:
Dad is Sable. (My bad, the one photo of him I have is bad and shows him as really solid dark.)
Dad's Dam is Black Chi... (can't read the rest of that word). Dad's sire is Black. 
Dad's grandparents: Red, Blue; Fawn, REW. 
Dad's great-grandparents: BBK Red, Fawn; Chocolate, Black; Chestnut Agouti, Fawn; Blue, Black.  

I'm just starting in color genetics. It's fascinating, but I still know nothing useful yet!


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## tortoise (Jan 23, 2011)

You have at least 1 dominant A gene in there, so an agouti in the litter would not be a surprise.

Also carrying c(chd), so chinchilla is also a possibility.

Both agouti and chinchilla will have lighter bellies.  Chinchilla should show as light belly and light inside of the eats.

Mom has white stripe on her face?  I'm not sure how that can get there without her having a breed mix in her.


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## DianeS (Jan 23, 2011)

tortoise said:
			
		

> Mom has white stripe on her face?  I'm not sure how that can get there without her having a breed mix in her.


No, thank you for pointing that out, it was just reflection from the flash. She has a part/cowlick thing above her nose and it made the light reflect back. Above her nose the fur is the same color as the rest of her face. 

So the "chi..." word I can't read in Dad's pedigree is likely "chinchilla"? 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge about this!

I'm currently reading this page about color genetics: http://www.threelittleladiesrabbitry.com/colorgenes.php Are there other online resources you would recommend?


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## tortoise (Jan 23, 2011)

DianeS said:
			
		

> tortoise said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That link is my favorite - easiest to understand.

Dad's genotype is:

Aa,Bb,c(cchd)_,Dd,E_,enen  (most people write the blanks as dashes and no commas, but that confuses me.  

Mom's genotype is:

aa,Bb,C_,Dd,E_,enen

I *think* mom has to be "Cc" inorder for chinchilla to be passed on.  Not sure on that - correct me if I am wrong.


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## dbunni (Jan 23, 2011)

Mom's a Blue French Angora?  Why did I think you said you had English ... Wool is lighter closer to the skin.  On a blue it will be silvery.  The darker the animal the darker the wool.  But, wool is always lighter than guard hair. A good quality guard hair will hold the original color or close to it (so on a black, the guards will stay black or close to it).  French contain more guards and less wool.  This is what makes them easier to maintain/groom than their English cousins.  Is the buck English or French?  If he is English, this would explain the coat differences in the litter already.  English babies present a different coat/texture very early compared to the other breeds that have more guard hairs.


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## tortoise (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks for the insight!  I automatically think of French angora when I see angora, lol.


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## DianeS (Jan 23, 2011)

Yes, definately French Angora. I checked my posts here, and I don't think I've ever said it at all. Sorry for the mix up.

The buck is French Angora too. 

I never realized there was that much of a difference. I'll be sure to say the "French" part from now on. 

Fascinating. I am learning SO MUCH from you two!


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