# Mange it is: an update from the "lumps on skin" post



## Lady Jane (Mar 10, 2011)

Hey,

I posted a few days ago about my goat having lumps. Well, I payed the vet to tell me what I already suspected that it's demotic mange. 
I read in one of my books that I should just clean the mange with hydrogen peroxide. I also saw on fiasco farm that garlic helps because the mites can't stand it? I guess I would rub garlic on the skin? The vet said she would use ivomec and I know that others here would suggest the same. Yet, I would really like to try a homeopathic solution first if at all possible. Or another chemical option that isn't a shot.  

One more question, would it be bad to drink her milk? I milked her for the first time a couple days ago and got half a quart. The milk didn't smell bad but it tasted really sour/bitter. She has been eating some pine needles so I thought it might be that. Do you think it would be all right if I just turned that milk into soap due to the awful taste?
Thanks!


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## chandasue (Mar 10, 2011)

Whenever I worm them during milking I use that milk for soapmaking so I think it'll be just fine for that. I'm not sure why the milk would taste bitter, mine eat pine needles and the milk never tasted bad, but maybe it's the quantity.   Do they have good hay and grain as well?


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## ksalvagno (Mar 10, 2011)

The garlic should be ingested not rubbed on skin. I have never used it so I don't know how much you would give but you would give it on a daily basis I believe for at least a week.


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## Lady Jane (Mar 10, 2011)

Thank you Karen,

The lady from fiasco farm didn't say to give orally. I guess she assumed it just made sense.  I didn't know what to do with the garlic so I didn't try it, but I will now!

Thanks for confirming my idea to use the milk as soap, Chadnasue. 
She is getting Timothy hay and Dumor sweet grain/alfalfa pellets/BOSS in the morning and at night.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 10, 2011)

Lady Jane said:
			
		

> The vet said she would use ivomec and I know that others here would suggest the same. Yet, I would really like to try a homeopathic solution first if at all possible. Or another chemical option that isn't a shot.


Question:  If your child had demodectic mange and was miserable and itchy and had lumps on their skin, would you try something homeopathic first just for the sake of avoiding medication, or would you just give the kid whatever was going to make them feel better the fastest?

Ivomec *will* cure this.  Inject SQ at the label dose of 1ml/110lbs, then repeat in about 3 wks.  For an adult goat, you're talking <2ml.

Just for reference, draw up 2ml of water in a syringe and dispense it on your kitchen counter, then proceed to marvel at how little liquid it actually is.  Then, if you want, you can blow your own mind a little further by reminding yourself that the entire dose of medication would be represented by a scant **1%** of those few drops of liquid on your countertop and that the rest is merely carrier.

That's all you're avoiding by trying something that probably won't work, while your animal suffers in the meantime...1% of a few drops.


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## poorboys (Mar 10, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

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 i tolaly agree, that's how i treat it.


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## BlackSheepOrganics (Mar 10, 2011)

Treatment of Demodectic mange is something we have dealt with when we took in a few goats due to an older gentleman dying and the sheriff's deputy knew we have taken in animals.  Out here, if an animal needs a home, folks somehow think we have nothing better to do than take it in since I stay at home and us stay at home moms do nothing but sit around watching soaps (we don't have tv), eating bonbons (ick), and playing with the kiddos.  (please note heavy sarcasm there)

Anyhow, cmjust0 is right.  The Ivomec is certainly the easier and quicker solution.  If your goats are heavily infested, you may want to seriously consider that route for their comfort's sake and your sanity's sake.

I have found that holistic approaches do work if properly known and implemented.  However, they are often best used as preventatives before the situation is serious.  I have raised 8 children and too many animals to count using holistic and all natural means.  However, I will be the first to tell you that there are times that it is just common sense and or humane to use modern medicine

Here is what we did in case it will help you, but please keep your goats' comfort in mind when deciding how to proceed.  Only you know how much discomfort they are in.

We got the 3 goats by finding them in a pen we have for letting the baby goats play outside.  The sheriff's deputy was kind enough to let us know by a note tied to the gate that a neighbor had died and he didn't know what to do with them and was hoping we wouldn't mind.  He further noted that he didn't want to wake us so he left them in there for us to find.  I had a "friendly" chat with him afterwards and he now wakes us if need be.  They had demodectic mange and it was obvious they were in bad shape.

So we got out some dog shampoo we have that is all natural and put in the neem oil (just about 10 drops to a quart of the shampoo) and mixed it up good.  We bathed them in that thoroughly 3x a week for two weeks but it was drying out their skin so we went to 2x a week.  Keep in mind that neem oil can be irritating to their skin so you want a carrier shampoo that is very soothing.  

We also fed them a mixture of 3 cloves of garlic with echinacea purpurea.  This is a good preventative but not sure if it actually helps rid them of it.  I figured it could not hurt though.  Both ingredients are a good "keep away" for the critters but they also help the immune system.  After about a month and a half they were looking considerably better but we kept up till the end of 2 months as that is what is recommended.  In case you haven't already guessed, bathing a goat is not easy nor fun!   

We also made sure to address their overall health and their immune system through feed and environment.  The reason being is that those mites live on those goats all the time.  When their immune system is compromised be it from nutrition deficits, environmental factors, or stress, the mites get out of control.

It has been about 10 years ago that we experienced this so I don't remember more details...sorry.

If I get a goat in that is stressed, I immediately give it the garlic and echinacea purpurea mixture and make sure to address any nutritional concerns.  These goats are not allowed around my goats until I've had them for 3 months and know they are not contagious.  I'm a bit paranoid about losing one of my babies as that happens without the aid of sicklies coming in.

I hope that helps and does not offend you.  I just want you to make sure you're fully aware of both sides of the coin of possibilities.  I wish you the very best with your babies!


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 10, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> The garlic should be ingested not rubbed on skin. I have never used it so I don't know how much you would give but you would give it on a daily basis I believe for at least a week.


I would assume it would be close to the amount fed to dogs to ward of mite/ticks/fleas/etc.... 1 Tbsp of minced garlic per day in their food or on the side.
Garlic also works for people to ward of these same creepy crawly critters!


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## Lady Jane (Mar 10, 2011)

Thank you for the heartfelt information everyone. I will take into consideration all that has been said.  
I don't suppose Python dust would be any help for mites? Also, what is the difference (if any) between 7 dust and Python dust?


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 10, 2011)

Lady Jane said:
			
		

> Thank you for the heartfelt information everyone. I will take into consideration all that has been said.
> I don't suppose Python dust would be any help for mites? Also, what is the difference (if any) between 7 dust and Python dust?


Python dust does work on mites also! the difference between 7 and Python is this: Python is SAFE to use on newborn kids, milking does, and any dairy livestock with NO withdrawl time!   It is the least toxic to them and to us. You do need to wear a dust mask(or t-shirt tied around your face) so you don't breathe it in, and as with all products like this, you need to use rubber gloves(ones used in the use of chemicals, not medical).
I dusted my herd of 5 goats ONCE in mid-December, I have not found any critters in their coat since. It really does work great, and I can't reccommend the stuff enough!


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## Lady Jane (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks Livinwright!


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 10, 2011)

Lady Jane said:
			
		

> Thanks Livinwright!


anytime!


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## cmjust0 (Mar 11, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> Python dust does work on mites also!
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> I dusted my herd of 5 goats ONCE in mid-December, I have not found any critters in their coat since. It really does work great, and I can't reccommend the stuff enough!


I've never heard anyone say any kind of dust will kill mites.  To my knowledge, it won't.

Can't help but wonder if you're confusing mites with lice..  If you're seeing 'critters in their coat,' you're seeing lice -- not mites.  Mites live in the goats skin, burrowing in and out, laying eggs and so forth, and they make nasty, scaly, weepy scabs and bumps often accompanied by heat and swelling, hair loss, pain, itching, etc..  Mites are *bad news*..  

You kinda gotta kill mites by feeding them 'bad blood,' in a way...insecticide-treated blood.  That's why injecting ivermectin works so well..

The dust won't get into the blood, which is why -- to my knowledge -- it's useless against mites.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

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If you google on the use of python dust with chickens you will find that it does kill mites as well.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 11, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> If you google on the use of python dust with chickens you will find that it does kill mites as well.


chicken != goat



ETA -- more specifically, chicken mites do not equal goat mites.  Chicken mites live *on* the skin... Goat mites live *in* the skin...

Totally, completely, 100% different.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

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I will recheck my package of Python dust this afternoon, but I am fairly certain that it says it kills lice, mites, ticks, and fleas. Whether it is specifying goat mites or chicken mites, I do not know. But given that it is a livestock dust, my guess is that it would be specifying goat mites.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 11, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

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If you have to check your package label, then "guess" it kills goat-specific mites because goats are livestock and, hey, it's "livestock dust" and it _may_ say it kills mites, then you should probably have indicated all that to begin with instead of saying:



> Python dust does work on mites also!


And that's doing the very least.  

More preferable would be doing what many of us do, which is to develop a theory and test it out on our own herds before suggesting it to others without *actually* knowing whether it works or not.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

Lady Jane: I should have stated earlier that:
If you or anyone else wants to know more about Python Dust or it's use for mites, lice, ticks, horn flies, keds, face flies, stable flies and other nuisance flies just google,"Python dust for _______s"(insert whatever species animal needs it into the blank)


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 11, 2011)

Is python dust the same thing as DE? It sounds like it.  We use DE for just about everything here and love it.


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## adoptedbyachicken (Mar 11, 2011)

The label for Python can be found here. 

It's not for chickens or mites, and it's not the same thing as DE.

Let's all please remember to play nice in the sandbox, and do your own homework on advice given on an internet forum.

'Nuff said.


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