# Vaccinate for Abscesses or not?



## Ridgetop (Mar 24, 2020)

When we had dairy goats and Boers, an abscess was cause for a panic attack and instant removal from the herd.  Then the goat was sent immediately to the local auction.  However, with woolly sheep needing shearing we started to see abscesses from shearing nicks and stickers that worked into the wool causing sores.  Now I have Dorpers - no or minimal shearing.  2 of my ewes purchased last May developed abscesses over the winter.  When I called the breeder he said that he occasionally had abscesses develop but they just isolated the affected animals, drained the abscess, and treated the open area with antibiotics.  When the abscesses healed the animals rejoined the flock.   I have done this in the past.  There is a lot of variation in how this is viewed among sheep people.  And the abscesses are not necessarily CL either.  I can have my vet draw blood from the affected ewes and send it in for a test.  I used to draw blood myself from our dairy does every year to the CAE tests but gave away my red top tubes.  also I am not sure I could do it any more since it has been 14 years since we sold our goat herd.

Now I wonder if I should vaccinate my flock against Caseous.  I bought a bottle of Case-Bac and an trying to decide if I should vaccinate all the flock, or just the ewe lambs.  The vaccinations are not effective if the ewes already have CL so no need to vaccinate them.  They are very good ewes with excellent bloodlines and I would like to keep them.  I do not have any daughters out of them yet, and they are only yearlings.  They lambed with no problem, are good mothers and milk well.

Anyone have any experience with the Case-Bac vaccine?  I think purplequeenvt posted years ago in a thread that she vaccinated but I could be mistaken.  Once I start vaccinating I have to give boosters every year.  Some people said in the reviews of Case-Bac that they give boosters every 6 months.  

Any thoughts?


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## Jesusfreak101 (Mar 24, 2020)

Following


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## Beekissed (Mar 24, 2020)

I'd vaccinate the rest of the herd, isolate and cull the ones with abscesses.   If you want to keep them you have to drain the abscesses somewhere on a hard surface that can be bleached and if they rupture out on the soil, it can take 8 mo. to leave the soil and you can't have the animals on it in all that time.  

Not worth it, IMO....I'd get those girls to slaughter.


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 24, 2020)

I don't vaccinate for CL. You should figure out if your flock actually has CL before decided to vaccinate or not (or to cull). Testing will be pointless if you vaccinate because they will all show up as positive. Where are the abscesses and have any of them drained? What comes out?

I have a few sheep that get lumps, but they aren't CL, they are sebaceous glands that get clogged with dirt and lanolin.

CL is definitely seen as a bigger issue to the goat world than the sheep one. Not sure why. We tested years ago for CL when we first got into sheep and bought some ewes that had lumps. They tested negative. While I'm not going to go nuts and test every single sheep, I would not buy an animal that I thought might have it. We actually refused to sell a breeding ram to someone once because she had a CL-positive flock. We were concerned that she would use him for a few years and then sell him to someone else. Since our name was on this sheep it would be our farm that would be blamed if he spread CL around.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Mar 25, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> When we had dairy goats and Boers, an abscess was cause for a panic attack and instant removal from the herd.  Then the goat was sent immediately to the local auction.  However, with woolly sheep needing shearing we started to see abscesses from shearing nicks and stickers that worked into the wool causing sores.  Now I have Dorpers - no or minimal shearing.  2 of my ewes purchased last May developed abscesses over the winter.  When I called the breeder he said that he occasionally had abscesses develop but they just isolated the affected animals, drained the abscess, and treated the open area with antibiotics.  When the abscesses healed the animals rejoined the flock.   I have done this in the past.  There is a lot of variation in how this is viewed among sheep people.  And the abscesses are not necessarily CL either.  I can have my vet draw blood from the affected ewes and send it in for a test.  I used to draw blood myself from our dairy does every year to the CAE tests but gave away my red top tubes.  also I am not sure I could do it any more since it has been 14 years since we sold our goat herd.
> 
> Now I wonder if I should vaccinate my flock against Caseous.  I bought a bottle of Case-Bac and an trying to decide if I should vaccinate all the flock, or just the ewe lambs.  The vaccinations are not effective if the ewes already have CL so no need to vaccinate them.  They are very good ewes with excellent bloodlines and I would like to keep them.  I do not have any daughters out of them yet, and they are only yearlings.  They lambed with no problem, are good mothers and milk well.
> 
> ...


Abscesses can grow when viruses, bacteria, parasites, or other foreign substances are inserted under the skin and trapped. When the skin is infected, the body's immune system helps to combat the infection by sending white blood cells to the site of the infection, causing inflammation.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 25, 2020)

purplequeenvt said:


> I don't vaccinate for CL. You should figure out if your flock actually has CL before decided to vaccinate or not (or to cull).





purplequeenvt said:


> We tested years ago for CL when we first got into sheep and bought some ewes that had lumps. They tested negative.



You are right about getting definitive testing to make sure if these abscesses are actually caused by CL.  I will have the vet draw blood when he comes out in a week or two.  I think Babsbag posted an email address for a CL testing site at http://www.cahfs.ucdavis.edu/submissionforms/index.cfm.  I will go on the website and order the forms in preparation for the tests.  I know sheep get other types of abscesses other than CL and once I vaccinate I will have to vaccinate consistently.  No reason to vaccinate unless the tests come in positive.  At that point, I can decide about culling and getting rid of these ewes, or keeping them in the breeding flock.  
Thanks.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Mar 26, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> When we had dairy goats and Boers, an abscess was cause for a panic attack and instant removal from the herd.  Then the goat was sent immediately to the local auction.  However, with woolly sheep needing shearing we started to see abscesses from shearing nicks and stickers that worked into the wool causing sores.  Now I have Dorpers - no or minimal shearing.  2 of my ewes purchased last May developed abscesses over the winter.  When I called the breeder he said that he occasionally had abscesses develop but they just isolated the affected animals, drained the abscess, and treated the open area with antibiotics.  When the abscesses healed the animals rejoined the flock.   I have done this in the past.  There is a lot of variation in how this is viewed among sheep people.  And the abscesses are not necessarily CL either.  I can have my vet draw blood from the affected ewes and send it in for a test.  I used to draw blood myself from our dairy does every year to the CAE tests but gave away my red top tubes.  also I am not sure I could do it any more since it has been 14 years since we sold our goat herd.
> 
> Now I wonder if I should vaccinate my flock against Caseous.  I bought a bottle of Case-Bac and an trying to decide if I should vaccinate all the flock, or just the ewe lambs.  The vaccinations are not effective if the ewes already have CL so no need to vaccinate them.  They are very good ewes with excellent bloodlines and I would like to keep them.  I do not have any daughters out of them yet, and they are only yearlings.  They lambed with no problem, are good mothers and milk well.
> 
> ...


Abscess development following immunization is a previously documented risk, usually associated with microbial contamination of the vaccine. ... While abscesses healed without sequelae, these occurrences promote an association between reception of aluminium adjuvant and sterile abscesses in susceptible patients.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 28, 2020)

I have never had a vaccination site abscess.  Occasionally a kid would develop a site lump that gradually disappeared. After a market animal seminar years ago I switched from rear leg vacs since they sometime contribute to abscesses and waste in the meat.  Wanting to avoid that in our animals that were destined for either Fair auction or market sales, I changed the vaccination site.  Now I vaccinate SQ in either the arm pit or SQ inside the rear groin.  Since the lamb or kid moves around this massages the vaccine area and moves the vaccine around too.  Using this site works for us.


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## Baymule (Mar 28, 2020)

I agree, test them first to see if they actually have CL.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Mar 30, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> When we had dairy goats and Boers, an abscess was cause for a panic attack and instant removal from the herd.  Then the goat was sent immediately to the local auction.  However, with woolly sheep needing shearing we started to see abscesses from shearing nicks and stickers that worked into the wool causing sores.  Now I have Dorpers - no or minimal shearing.  2 of my ewes purchased last May developed abscesses over the winter.  When I called the breeder he said that he occasionally had abscesses develop but they just isolated the affected animals, drained the abscess, and treated the open area with antibiotics.  When the abscesses healed the animals rejoined the flock.   I have done this in the past.  There is a lot of variation in how this is viewed among sheep people.  And the abscesses are not necessarily CL either.  I can have my vet draw blood from the affected ewes and send it in for a test.  I used to draw blood myself from our dairy does every year to the CAE tests but gave away my red top tubes.  also I am not sure I could do it any more since it has been 14 years since we sold our goat herd.
> 
> Now I wonder if I should vaccinate my flock against Caseous.  I bought a bottle of Case-Bac and an trying to decide if I should vaccinate all the flock, or just the ewe lambs.  The vaccinations are not effective if the ewes already have CL so no need to vaccinate them.  They are very good ewes with excellent bloodlines and I would like to keep them.  I do not have any daughters out of them yet, and they are only yearlings.  They lambed with no problem, are good mothers and milk well.
> 
> ...


(Case-Bac) is a combination of bacterin and toxoid, while Caseous D-T also contains tetanus toxoid and Clostridium perfringens type D toxoid. Safety is the main reason why Colorado Serum Company did not have a label for the use of these vaccines in goats.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Apr 1, 2020)

purplequeenvt said:


> I don't vaccinate for CL. You should figure out if your flock actually has CL before decided to vaccinate or not (or to cull). Testing will be pointless if you vaccinate because they will all show up as positive. Where are the abscesses and have any of them drained? What comes out?
> 
> I have a few sheep that get lumps, but they aren't CL, they are sebaceous glands that get clogged with dirt and lanolin.
> 
> CL is definitely seen as a bigger issue to the goat world than the sheep one. Not sure why. We tested years ago for CL when we first got into sheep and bought some ewes that had lumps. They tested negative. While I'm not going to go nuts and test every single sheep, I would not buy an animal that I thought might have it. We actually refused to sell a breeding ram to someone once because she had a CL-positive flock. We were concerned that she would use him for a few years and then sell him to someone else. Since our name was on this sheep it would be our farm that would be blamed if he spread CL around.


For all sheep age groups, the most commonly used vaccines were clostridial C and D, and tetanus.


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## Ridgetop (Aug 8, 2020)

Oh No!  I see that I never replied to this posting again after determining what was causing the lumps and abcesses!  I did post on my Ridgetop site

My vet came out but instead of blood testing the entire herd (beaucoup$$$$!) she suggested we just culture the abscess to see if it was CL.  

She sent in the culture and it came back negative for Caseous Lymphadenitis.  Instead the abscess was caused by another abscess causing bacteria - Actinobacillus.  This is very common and easily treated.  Sheep that are shorn often develop abscesses from sharp thorns or slivers penetrating the fleece or from shearing nicks.  Hair sheep can also get this from slight skin abrasions.  Actinobacillus is a bacteria that lives on the sheep's skin and inside the mouth.  Infection can occur when eating thorny shrubbery, sticky, sharp hay stalks, etc.  the infection presents as a lump that ripens into an abscess.  When it "ripens" it is ready to burst and the exudate is very infectious.  

Once the abscess lump gets large, remove the animal from the herd and isolate it.  Once the abscess is ready to lance and drain you can do it your self easily.   *Wear rubber gloves, put the animal in a constraint of some sort, and provide yourself with plenty of paper towels, a scalpel or razor blade, iodine (we use a diluted iodine udder wash), a syringe with no needle, and 10-12 cc of Pennicilin if you have it.  *Gently palpate the area of the abscess to make sure it is soft and ready to burst.  You want to lance it just before it can burst on it's own since you want to disinfect it and remove all the infectious material properly.  Once you find the soft center - this is the eye - where it is ready to burst, carefully make a small cut in the lower portion of the soft spot.  You want the pus to drain out so opening the bottom of the cavity is better than opening the top.  Usually the pus will gush out so have your paper towels ready to catch it.  Sometimes you have to push gently to get all of the pus out,  Then fill the small syringe with iodine and flush the cavity.  This will often loosen more pus so you can squeeze around the abscess to make sure that all the stuff is out.  Continue flushing with iodine till the cavity is empty.  If this is a very large infection, the cavity will often fill up again and need to be drained a second time.  or another site will localize and need draining.  Usually draining is necessary only once.  You can give Pennicilin if yu choose.  it is not necessary unless you are worried about further infection from theopenwound.  Also, keep the animal isolated until the open abscess closes.  Don't worry about the lump remaining.  In a month or so, the swelling will be completely gone and the most you might see might be a small scar from the incision.

You can tell the difference easily between Caseous exudate and Actinobacillus exudate.  Caseous pus is lumpy and whiteish  like very solid small curd cottage cheese and often needs to be almost scooped out.  In contrast, Actinobacillus is more runny, greenish-yellowish, and sticky.  No lumpy curd in it, and it will almost gush out.  As soon as we lanced the first abscess on my ewe's jaw and saw the pus, I relaxed since I knew it was not Caseous. The test results confirmed it and gave me a name for the bacteria.      

Abscesses are all around nasty and gross, but I can live with Actinobacillus occasionally.  CL would have meant the possible destruction of my entire herd of beautiful well-bred White Dorpers.  I did order the CL vaccine but did not have to use it.  Now I am just annoyed that I got so worried that I spent the money on the unnecessary vaccine before the testing.  

In the case of this particular ewe, she had suddenly developed a large sausage like swelling along her lower front left jaw. About a week later, an abscess swelling appeared on her left cheek.  The cheek swelling was the actual abscess site which was drained,  The vet was not sure what the lower jaw swelling was.  She checked for infected teeth but the ewe's jaw and teeth were fine.  The cheek abscess was very large with a lot of stuff in it.  After draining it, the sausage swelling began to subside a little but another lump developed near the first one.  We got the test results back, and the lump that had formed near the first one began to ripen  This time I did not bother to have the vet out, I drained it myself.  It had the same type of Actinobacillus pus.  After the second abscess had healed I noticed that the sausage swelling was also completely gone.  Apparently the infection was very large and started in the lower front jaw and then proceeded to drain through 2 different sites.   Since then I have drained another Actinobacillus abscess on one of my bucks.  Apparently this bacteria is naturally prevalent on my property and on my sheep.  Since it is treatable I am not going to worry.

Sorry I took so long to notice that I did not end this posting with the results.


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