# Can you ACTUALLY make money on raising beef cattle?



## rd200

Okay, so I am a Dairy farmer at heart, grew up on a Farm. When I was young, we had steers, then pigs, then finally my dad got into Dairy farming. Anyways, I showed beef cattle for 4-h a few years and loved them. So now i want to start raising some beef cattle. Im married, have a young family, currently work on a farm. I want to quit my job (secondary income) and go full fledged self-sufficient gardener, farmer, etc.  I am still trying to decide on a good Milk cow (ideally dual-purpose) but havent decided on that yet. But i am trying to concentrate on whether or not we can actually make money on beef cattle. Im not talking about LOADS of MOOLA.... just enough to make it worth it and to convince my hubby that it is a good idea. I have some breeds narrowed down (for now) i was thinking Scottish Highlands, Galloways, or Red polls for now. Maybe Devons too. I am planning on grass feeding and hay in the winter. So from late October until May I am going to be feeding hay. I was trying to figure out how much hay cow/calf will be eating, how much the hay will cost, other expenses, etc. Geez..... Im not so sure I WILL make any money!!! I guess it depends on how quickly and if i can get rid of the calves, when i get rid of them, if im selling for breeding stock, raising to market weight, raising to sell as halves and quarters....etc. Im not planning on going BIG. Maybe ill stick with 1 or possibly 2 breeds, but no more than 5 or 6 cows. And no bull, Ill AI them. 

these breeds are known for ruggedness, efficiency, being able to thrive on pasture/sometimes poor quality, calving ease and temperment. I dont know how much they will eat in winter but i was figuring a cow is probably going to be around 800-1100lbs (depending on what breed..) would it make sense that each cow would eat about 50lbs of  hay per day in winter?? Im not planning on grain supplementation unless needed. but they will have mineral/salt blocks. Im thinking that Im not going to be PROFITING from the cow until Ive had her at least 2 years and she has given me 2 calves. Does that sound about right? there is the initial investment of the cow itself, then breeding fees, (AI) then feeding thru winter, then the calf is born, summer is almost free cuz they are going to be pastured, then sell the calf at weaning?? then feed the cow thru winter again, have calf, hopefully by the time i sell THIS calf, then i willhave made a little money.  

As much as i would LOVE to just fly by the seat of my pants and not look at the logistic of it, that wont work. I cant lOSE money on it. I know from year to year things will be good/bad depending on the market, rain fall, hay availability, calf crop, etc. The market is strong now, but that will change too. 

Another quick question,before i bore you all to death with my over analization of everything...
Is there any preferences on what way to go?? Meaning, Is raising Registered stock to sell for breeding stock more profitable than just raising unregistered stock and selling to the market? or is raising them to market weight and then butchering and selling the meat directly to consumers more profitable?? A little of all???? 

Thanks in advance for the info....


----------



## SmallFarmGirl

I know nothing about cattle, but I hope someone who does may come around and help you! 
Welcome to the herd!


----------



## Cricket

And I know nothing about making a profit !  (But we eat well!)  I would think a lot is going to depend on how much you want to spend in the beginning.  It seems as though registered stock would  sell for more if you are trying to sell for breeding, but won't do you much good when you sell as beef if the market is down.  (It's high now in the NE).  And I would think you'd make more if you keep your calf until it's freezer size as opposed to selling at weaning if you have your own pasture and hay.
Good luck!


----------



## redtailgal

Profit?

What is that? lol

Yes, we actually did make a little money from sales last year.  We spent it on replacement heifers.............


----------



## Royd Wood

Buy registered breeding stock from a very reputable breeder - then just register your heifers which join the herd. You dont register heifers or steers that need culling.
Selling breeding stock becomes more profitable as your reputation builds which can take some time.
Good choice RD200 with Galloways and Highland for a strict grassfed operation - you will need very good pasture and top quality hay and LOTS of it.
Strictly grassfed Galloways finish at 28 months so thats two winters  but the rewards are very healthy and tender omega 3 rich beef which is low in omega 6.
Belted tend to be slightly smaller than solid black or dun Galloways, we have a mixture here and have a very thriving business for grassfed beef.
Did I see you only had 10 acres in a previous post ??????? if so then you are very limited numbers wise as the Galloways will mow that pretty quick.
As for profit then that depends on product market - most money is made on cuts not quarters/halves, making your own hay, and good fortune
Good Luck


----------



## rd200

redtailgal said:
			
		

> Profit?
> 
> What is that? lol
> 
> Yes, we actually did make a little money from sales last year.  We spent it on replacement heifers.............


 

RoydWood- yes, in another post I mentioned that I would only have 10 acres. That is kinda subjective tho... Okay, heres the deal. My DH wants to build a house (I want a barn and chicken coop) on his father's land. We woudl need to buy 40 acres to build a house there(per township rules) this 40 acres of land is what my DH's father is leaving him as his inheritance (another long, complicated thing..) so, its about 8 acres woods, a few acres pastury/grassy, then the rest tillable. Its in hay right now. anyways, so the plan is for us to buy the 40 acres for cheap, lease it back to his dad, who will then keep leasing it to the farmer who runs it now. Then we are working out some kinda land contract with his dad for now. (Im not 100% sure on the details yet...) anyways, i told my  DH that I wanted to keep at least 10 acres as "MINE" for my milk cow and some beefers. Well, then he got kinda snippy and said this is only going to work if we can lease almost all the land back to his dad....??? not sure why.... anyways, so i told him if i cant even use my own 40 acres, then thats just pointless to have it?!!!  So right now im putting my foot down and if i cant get upto 15 acres to pasture, the deal isnt happening. Plus i wouldnt have any hayland, i would have to buy it from his dad (who has about 15 beefers and runs about 50 acres, so he has more than enough hay to sell me. but still.... if i cant pasture them the whole summer, there is NO way im going to be able to make anything close to "profit"  I was thinking only a few for now.... like 2 to start with and then grow from there.  
anyways, so we dont even have any plans worked out or anything right now.... I am just trying to get something nailed down so that I can say to my DH..... see, I can make $$ doing this and not have to go work for someone else my whole life!!!! 
heck, i live in town right now.... shameful>>  
Im just so dieing to do this, I can't wait.


----------



## jhm47

Two head???  Don't quit your day job.  You'll need at LEAST 50 - 75 head to make anywhere near a decent living.  Probably more.


----------



## rd200

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Two head???  Don't quit your day job.  You'll need at LEAST 50 - 75 head to make anywhere near a decent living.  Probably more.


2 head to start with.... and my DH has a full time job so this would be our secondary income (if any) I dont make squat anyways right now. I work my A** off for $11/hr and by the time i pay for gas and daycare...its about $6/hr.


----------



## WildRoseBeef

You won't make money off of cattle with only ten acres and two head to play around with. That's the bottom line, and something you will never be able to shy away from. 

If you want to make money off of cattle buy a quarter section or more (1 quarter section = 160 acres), start implementing some sort of intensive rotational grazing system so that you utilize the land at the best it can, and work on getting a heck of a lot more than "a few" cattle to work with.  If you can do rotational grazing very successfully, you'll easily be able to raise 100 head or more (may even risk stocking one AU per acre with MIG (managed intensive grazing)!!) and EASILY make good profit off that.  Utilize the area so that you're NOT making/feeding hay, and instead grazing 365 days a year.

You are in an area and most likely will purchase land in an where you won't get nearly as much snow like I do up here, so it shouldn't be hard to find some way to utilize grazing where you are not feeding hay.

If I were you, in order to really convince your DH about making this a profitable venture, get the heck out of the idea of working with 10 acres with cattle.  If you want that ten acres you might as well consider raising goats instead! Scrap that, find an area with a much bigger land base, and go from there.  You'll thank me later! 



(If I came off not as eloquently as I tended, my apologies, but I couldn't help but be blunt here.)

Good luck in your search and plans.  Most of all, remember to be flexible and pursue ALL options, not just the ones you see in front of you on the table.


----------



## WildRoseBeef

And could you post your location on your profile where it can be viewed on the forum as you post?  I don't want to be one to keep asking you where you're located or have to sift through a bunch of posts to see where you're from.


----------



## Bossroo

rd200 said:
			
		

> redtailgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Profit?
> 
> What is that? lol
> 
> Yes, we actually did make a little money from sales last year.  We spent it on replacement heifers.............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RoydWood- yes, in another post I mentioned that I would only have 10 acres. That is kinda subjective tho... Okay, heres the deal. My DH wants to build a house (I want a barn and chicken coop) on his father's land. We woudl need to buy 40 acres to build a house there(per township rules) this 40 acres of land is what my DH's father is leaving him as his inheritance (another long, complicated thing..) so, its about 8 acres woods, a few acres pastury/grassy, then the rest tillable. Its in hay right now. anyways, so the plan is for us to buy the 40 acres for cheap, lease it back to his dad, who will then keep leasing it to the farmer who runs it now. Then we are working out some kinda land contract with his dad for now. (Im not 100% sure on the details yet...) anyways, i told my  DH that I wanted to keep at least 10 acres as "MINE" for my milk cow and some beefers. Well, then he got kinda snippy and said this is only going to work if we can lease almost all the land back to his dad....??? not sure why.... anyways, so i told him if i cant even use my own 40 acres, then thats just pointless to have it?!!!  So right now im putting my foot down and if i cant get upto 15 acres to pasture, the deal isnt happening. Plus i wouldnt have any hayland, i would have to buy it from his dad (who has about 15 beefers and runs about 50 acres, so he has more than enough hay to sell me. but still.... if i cant pasture them the whole summer, there is NO way im going to be able to make anything close to "profit"  I was thinking only a few for now.... like 2 to start with and then grow from there.
> anyways, so we dont even have any plans worked out or anything right now.... I am just trying to get something nailed down so that I can say to my DH..... see, I can make $$ doing this and not have to go work for someone else my whole life!!!!
> heck, i live in town right now.... shameful>>
> Im just so dieing to do this, I can't wait.
Click to expand...

I meen this post to be as an eye onener...    ...   You are cutting off your nose to spite your face  with this attitude !   There is very little chance of making a profit on 10 acres with cattle or any other animal under the best of conditions. The real world production costs for a small scale farmer just don't add up in this day and age.  I would surmise that you would be able to feed your family with quality meat, but not much more in most years.  That is if you do all of the work, do your own slaughtering and are lucky enough to NOT have any Vet bills.  My wife is an auditor with the IRS and in instructor across the country for new hires. She can tell you first hand the the vast majority of small farmers ( and I mean the VAST MAJORITY) are operating in the red and rely on outside income to pay for their operations.    My next door neighbors in Cal. run 20 sheep and one steer per year  on 20 acres and have to purchase all of their feed for 9 months of the year.  They are lucky enough to break even in 1 out of 4 years  on the sale of the lambs and 1/2 of the steer on an annual basis.Another neighbor just 1 mile away,  runs 200 head of beef cows on 5,000 acres of range land ( family owned for over 100 years and is free and clear) and have to purchase 10 truck and trailer loads of quality alfalfa hay plus all of their grain to run a feed lot for the weanlings to slaughter weight to make a profit. By the way, I have 20 acres, and there is no way on God's green earth, that I could raise a beef here any cheaper than I could buy the cheapest hamburger  including the added pink slime for. I buy my hand picked steer from my neighbor and butcher it myself.  Much cheaper that way.


----------



## jhm47

I hope the OP isn't thinking that we're all negative on this.  Many of us have been in the cattle business for many years, and have probably only made a profit for less than half of those years.  We have seen all the pitfalls and unexpected things that can quickly suck any prospect of profit out of our carefully planned enterpsises.  Right now, the cattle business is quite profitable.  Even the marginal producers are making good money.  However, entering into the cattle business right now would be very expensive.  Even poor quality breeding stock are selling for lots of $$$, and land prices and rents are sky high.  

Personally, I have been exposed to cattle since my birth 65 years ago, and have experienced quite a few things in those years.  I also happen to work with many herds (some in excess of 1000 head), and am exposed to many different breeds, management styles, etc.  With my ability to observe what others are doing, and with my experience over the years, I have gotten a lot of ideas on what works and what doesn't.  If I sometimes seem to be blunt in my advice, it's not because I'm trying to discourage anyone, rather it's because I don't want to see someone do something that I am quite certain won't work.  I hate to see anyone get hurt either physically of financially because I didn't warn them.

FYI:  I got two new calves during the night last night.  Just getting started with calving here, and hope the weather doesn't turn cold and wet.


----------



## rd200

No, no one is scaring me off!!! I dont mind bluntness, Im kinda like that myself. I certainly DO know how tough it is to make a living farming. We struggled the WHOLE time I was growing up. To the point where my parents could barely put food on the table. that was when we were raising pigs and the market crashed.Ive been paying for my own everything since i was 12, and have worked full-time on farms since age 16, so i know how rough it can be.  I know most family farms struggle these days and that is why i was asking if anyone actually makes $ on beef. 
I appreciate all the advice/comments. We are NOT in any position to buy alot of land. I would be great if there was land to buy, but there just isnt. Land rent is SKY high here, there isnt ANY available anywhere, and when there is, the Big 1000-cow dairies snatch it up as quickly as possible. Even land that isnt really workable and would be great for pasture is still so enormously overpriced its crazy. And forget about buying land, not at $3000-$5000+ an acre.... for farmland...thats crazy. People are even getting upwards of $200/acre for RENT.  

unfortunetly it doesnt look like I will ever be able to afford to buy land at the rates here. Its less Dairy based in certain parts of the state, but we cant move further away from my DH's work, he already drives 1 hr 15 minutes each way... so that is out of the question. Otherwise either North of us 2 hours or West of us 2 hrs would be alot less expensive for land and we might be able to find some somewhere. 

we did go and look at a property last night that has everything we are looking for except its only 8.4 acres. Big barn, decent size house, good location, farm fields all around, no neighbors,  big machine shed/shop for the hubby.The 8 acres wouldnt be all pasturable, probably only 5 acres. Its an awesome price, so i think we might jump on it. We've been searching for 2 years already with no luck. Its not what i want in the way of acreage, so i guess i will just stick to my 1 milk cow, maybe 1 steer for beef, and a few chickens and pigs and that will have to do.  As much as i have dreams of having a big place with loads of animals and acreage, we simply dont have the finances to do that. 

thanks everyone!!!


----------



## dragonmorgan

This is a very interesting way of doin it. I was wonderin how the intensive rotational grazing works? We too are tryin to get our cows to start turnin a profit and im lookin for ways to utilize the land we have to the fullest. 



			
				WildRoseBeef said:
			
		

> You won't make money off of cattle with only ten acres and two head to play around with. That's the bottom line, and something you will never be able to shy away from.
> 
> If you want to make money off of cattle buy a quarter section or more (1 quarter section = 160 acres), start implementing some sort of intensive rotational grazing system so that you utilize the land at the best it can, and work on getting a heck of a lot more than "a few" cattle to work with.  If you can do rotational grazing very successfully, you'll easily be able to raise 100 head or more (may even risk stocking one AU per acre with MIG (managed intensive grazing)!!) and EASILY make good profit off that.  Utilize the area so that you're NOT making/feeding hay, and instead grazing 365 days a year.
> 
> You are in an area and most likely will purchase land in an where you won't get nearly as much snow like I do up here, so it shouldn't be hard to find some way to utilize grazing where you are not feeding hay.
> 
> If I were you, in order to really convince your DH about making this a profitable venture, get the heck out of the idea of working with 10 acres with cattle.  If you want that ten acres you might as well consider raising goats instead! Scrap that, find an area with a much bigger land base, and go from there.  You'll thank me later!
> 
> 
> 
> (If I came off not as eloquently as I tended, my apologies, but I couldn't help but be blunt here.)
> 
> Good luck in your search and plans.  Most of all, remember to be flexible and pursue ALL options, not just the ones you see in front of you on the table.


----------



## WildRoseBeef

dragonmorgan said:
			
		

> This is a very interesting way of doin it. I was wonderin how the intensive rotational grazing works? We too are tryin to get our cows to start turnin a profit and im lookin for ways to utilize the land we have to the fullest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WildRoseBeef said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You won't make money off of cattle with only ten acres and two head to play around with. That's the bottom line, and something you will never be able to shy away from.
> 
> If you want to make money off of cattle buy a quarter section or more (1 quarter section = 160 acres), start implementing some sort of intensive rotational grazing system so that you utilize the land at the best it can, and work on getting a heck of a lot more than "a few" cattle to work with.  If you can do rotational grazing very successfully, you'll easily be able to raise 100 head or more (may even risk stocking one AU per acre with MIG (managed intensive grazing)!!) and EASILY make good profit off that.  Utilize the area so that you're NOT making/feeding hay, and instead grazing 365 days a year.
> 
> You are in an area and most likely will purchase land in an where you won't get nearly as much snow like I do up here, so it shouldn't be hard to find some way to utilize grazing where you are not feeding hay.
> 
> If I were you, in order to really convince your DH about making this a profitable venture, get the heck out of the idea of working with 10 acres with cattle.  If you want that ten acres you might as well consider raising goats instead! Scrap that, find an area with a much bigger land base, and go from there.  You'll thank me later!
> 
> 
> 
> (If I came off not as eloquently as I tended, my apologies, but I couldn't help but be blunt here.)
> 
> Good luck in your search and plans.  Most of all, remember to be flexible and pursue ALL options, not just the ones you see in front of you on the table.
Click to expand...

Dragon, basically MIG works something like this: You take a pasture, divide it up into smaller paddocks, and manage each individual paddock with temporary electric fence.  You put the herd in all one small area that is small enough that they won't be trampling more than what they're supposed to eat, and once they've eaten enough of that particular small paddock, you switch them to another one with fresh grass.  

What you're doing with MIG is that you are putting a lot of grazing pressure on a much smaller area for a short period of time and then moving on to the next one.  On person another forum is able to put 100 head of cattle on only a three quarters (3/4) of an acre, for I think a full day (see this thread )

There is a TON of information on MIG rotational grazing out there.  I will share a fair few useful links and forum posts you might want to look at as far as rotational grazing is concerned:

Ideas on Rotational Grazing (over 100 pgs to read through, but VERY informative)
Stockman Grass Farmer
Management Intensive Grazing via UGA

Really, all you need to do is Google "rotational grazing" or "MIG grazing" or "intensive grazing" and you'll get plenty of results.


----------



## greybeard

Profit--in beef cows? Sure ya can, and on a whole lot less acreage than a 1/4 section, but there's lots of "ifs", "risks" and "hazards" along the way, not to mention the big "It Depends.....".
Getting into livestock is the same as buying any other kind of investment. Buy low--sell high. In my area, the time to buy low was late fall, early to mid winter 2011. Cows of every description around here were being almost given away. Anyone who hung on, made it thru our unexpected mild and short winter without selling off, is making loads of profit--Depending on how much hay and feed they had to buy in Dec-Jan-Feb.  I just last week saw a scrub cross bred heifer bring $1800. Nothing purebred or registered, just your average herford/angus cross heifer that was bred back in November 2011.  Saw 3 Charlais calves (about 8 mos old) in poor condition bring around $900 total at auxction barn.  The owner didn't have $200 worth of feed hay, or medical in all of them combined--just ran them on winter rye, almost starving from my pov, but the picked up quick starting in late Feb, and by then beef prices had gone way up around here.  Of course, this is talking out of school so to speak, since Wisconsin ain't Texas. 
Me? Well, the old saying is 'you ain't a Texan till you've lost your butt in oil, and you ain't a Real Texan till you've lost your butt in oil AND cattle.  I'm workin on the real part now, having lost in oil back in '84.  I didn't sell off anything, but I didn't buy anything when the prices were down either, as I didn't plant nearly enough ground in rye, so I couldn't afford to feed any new stock. 

And OP, don't forget, that your payout won't come overnight either. You have to figure what you recieve in each year against what you have en total invested in land, fences, barns, feeders, vets, and other ag related infrastructure. 

40 acres here, will easily pasture 20-25 cows w/calves with only a minimum of cross fencing and pasture rotation--assuming you get some rain.


----------

