# Fence Stretching



## enggass (Jan 5, 2017)

Hey all,
Anyone here used an ATV to stretch woven wire fencing? If so, is it best to use a Winch on my ATV or just use the ATV itself to pull the fencing taught? My Winch is 2500lb capacity... Any tips or step by steps would help. I know I would have to rig up some sort of pull such as 2x4 or rebar to end of fence to pull with the Winch/ATV. How have you all done it(with ATV)?
Thanks,
Steve


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## Latestarter (Jan 5, 2017)

I would think using the winch would be better. with the ATV there's much less fine control and you could easily over tighten and weaken the fencing. A couple of 2x4's bolted through in multiple places, the fencing then pulled by those so the entire height of fencing gets pulled evenly. Once upright, it shouldn't stretch more than a few inches.


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## babsbag (Jan 5, 2017)

I agree with @Latestarter. I  use a come-a-long attached by chain to trees but I have crazy land. The 2 2x4s with fence sandwiched between them works great. I use screws to hold them together, easy in and easy out. I also use a ratcheting tie down strap attached to the top and bottom of the 2x4 so it comes to a "v" and that "v" is where I attach my cable for pulling. Since I have very hilly ground I can make the "v" higher or lower so when I attach my cable it will either pull the top of the fence tighter or the bottom.  I like a tight fence.


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## Steve Enggass (Jan 5, 2017)

Cool. How do you attach the ratchet strap to the 2x4s?


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## babsbag (Jan 5, 2017)

I just looped  it around the 2x4 and hooked it back on itself.  I am the official fence installer around my place and what I would give for some nice level clear land to fence.


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## CntryBoy777 (Jan 5, 2017)

@babsbag ya won't be heading my Way anytime soon, will ya?....just think of it as a "Pit Stop" to NC...


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## babsbag (Jan 5, 2017)

@CntryBoy777  I would be more than happy to stop and help IF I was headed to NC. But goats are kidding this week and I still have a dairy to finish so I think I will have to pass this time.  If we get the land next to us I will have some more fencing to do but this piece is dang near level.   And while level is great some areas have no trees either which means I actually have to put in corner braces and line posts. WOW. Another new skill to learn. I know that you aren't supposed to use trees, but these oaks stand FOREVER and they don't mind holding up my fence, it sure makes my life a little easier, plus I use them for anchors when I stretch fence.  Fortunately I have a great little Bobcat with an awesome post hole digger that will help. And I know there is a good posts on here somewhere about floating corner braces.


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## CntryBoy777 (Jan 5, 2017)

Well ya would be Welcome any Time...
.....and I sure wouldn't let ya work while ya was here....and trees are certainly used around the area for sure. I just don't put any in the bird pens, coon will utilize the Highway...


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## Bruce (Jan 5, 2017)

You are better off using 2 come-alongs one high, one low so you can tension more evenly. You do NOT want to pull with a vehicle and be careful if you use the winch. You CAN do it but you won't get a straight pull at the right height because you likely have no way to get it that high on the ATV.

The more difficult part is finding something you can hook the come-alongs to both high and low which is why people use the "v" format. Assuming you are putting in gates with H braces, that gives you one location. I recently put in 300' of woven wire with a gate about 130' from one end. H braced on the hinge side, floating brace on the latch side. I could have used the H brace to pull the fence to the strike side but not the other way around. I had seen a video showing pulling two pieces from the 'middle'. In their case they had no way to pull from one end so they cut the wire in the middle, put 2 fence pullers in, pulled them together then spliced the fence back together. Since I did have some posts, I 'folded' the fencing between the hinge and strike posts, attached the come-alongs and pulled. Once tight I started cutting and attaching the wires to their respective posts. Would have been really good to have had some help because when you aren't attached to a close by anchor, the whole thing likes to fall until it is pretty darned tight.

The discussion related to my fence project is here:
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/fence-post-bracing.34779/


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## babsbag (Jan 5, 2017)

CntryBoy777 said:


> I just don't put any in the bird pens, coon will utilize the Highway...



Smart


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## enggass (Jan 6, 2017)

babsbag said:


> I just looped  it around the 2x4 and hooked it back on itself.  I am the official fence installer around my place and what I would give for some nice level clear land to fence.


Thanks - but still, how do you attach to the top and bottom - anyway you could post a pic?


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## Bruce (Jan 6, 2017)

I used bolts to pull the 2x4s together over the wire fencing. I happened to have some bolts with integrated rings like these and put 1 as the top bolt and one as the bottom bolt of the stretcher. I had them facing opposite sides so the stretcher didn't twist sideways though I don't know if that really matters. 






If you are planning on doing @babsbag's ratchet strap V method, just loop the end through the lowest "cell" of the fencing right at the 2x4 stretcher then hook it back to the strap. Do the same with a second strap through the top "cell". It might bend the upper/lower horizontal wire in that 'cell' a bit but you will be cutting it and wrapping it around the post and tying it back into itself anyway. Since you don't want to come up short on the wire tying back into the fence, you will (of course) err on the side of wasting a foot or two of wire and the cells close to the stretcher will be waste anyway . Connect whatever you are using to actually pull with to the hooks on the other end of the straps where they meet. Since she is using ratchet straps, the length of each can be adjusted to form the V. This should give some latitude as to how far the anchor point can be off the vertical center of the stretcher. If the anchor point is lower than the midpoint, the upper ratchet strap will be longer than the lower strap. Once you start pulling, you might need to adjust one or the other to equally pull the top and bottom at the same time. Which is why using ratchet straps to form the V is near genius  Make sure yours have a safe working load for the job.

BTW, @greybeard has enlightened us to the reality of fencing. You do NOT want to run a stretched fence around a corner post and then down the line to the next post. You want each run to be separate so it doesn't pull the corner post inward. That means you need to start/stop each linear run at a corner post.


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## greybeard (Jan 6, 2017)

enggass said:


> Thanks - but still, how do you attach to the top and bottom - anyway you could post a pic?


Babsbags' ratchet straps, if like the ones I have, have a hook on each end. If not, they have a hook on one end and a loop preformed on the other. It's just a matter of running the strap around each end of the device that's clamped to the fence and hooking the strap back into itself.
There's a dozen or more ways to do it, and none are reallly 'wrong'. I used chains back when I was stretching hog wire, but straps are probably easier.
Here's one video, that kinda shows it:





This guy uses 2 comealongs, which works well tho a little awkward, but it does allow the installer to make adjustments for differences in grade deviations.





This one uses rope. Problem with rope is low breaking point and rope generally has a lot of stretch to it and then there's the problem of getting the knots untied afte you're done.





There are tools you can buy or make that just hook into a bar run thru the fence--I tried one on some welded wire fencing around my garden and did not like them--they elongated the rectangles because there was too much stress applied to just a few parts of the height of the fence. Might work ok on short runs of knotted wire fencing tho.


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## babsbag (Jan 6, 2017)

@greybeard and @Bruce explained it well.  Since I didn't have two come-alongs I made a loop in the strap at the point of the V and then would adjust that point higher or lower depending on the slope of the land. Two come-alongs would have been awesome.  I was also using trees as anchors for my come-alongs and some of those trees were 20' away so I used a tow strap attached to the come-along instead of a chain as it was lighter to carry "over hill and over dale"; a good chain is HEAVY.


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## enggass (Jan 6, 2017)

Thank you all.. Tons of great info! Very helpfull


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## Bruce (Jan 6, 2017)

Ah the RedBrand guys and their videos. I learned quite a bit from them. I also hate them. See how EASY it is to dig a post hole? So easy that they put in temporary brace posts to pull to. Every wood post I put it took HOURS. Yep, just hate them 

BTW @enggass , I discovered something about making H braces (I should patent it ) You see how the guy is pre-drilling the post and brace pole, pounding the brace pin in one then matching up the pin to the hole in the post?? PITA! Easier if there are multiple people but that wasn't my case. I did it their way ONCE. Then I made my discovery - ratchet straps!!! Yes, they are almost as useful as duct tape and baling wire.

Set your 2 posts, put the brace pole on the ground butted up against the first post you set and set the second post with the brace butted against it. No measuring needed 
(this is where a helper is handy but not necessary) lift the brace pole to the general height you want and trap it between the two posts using 2 ratcheting tie down straps hooked together. Adjust the brace pole to the height you want it and make sure the ratchet strap doesn't end up being over the location where you will put the brace pin
Crank on the ratchet straps so they will hold the brace pole in place
Drill through one post and into the brace pole with the proper sized bit
Pound the brace pin in through the post and into the brace pole, leave some out if you need to have brace wire going down from there
Repeat #4 & #5 on the other post
Remove the ratchet straps.
Trust me, this is WAY WAY easier than trying to shove a 5" pole with a brace pin sticking out of it into a hole you can't see in a post or trying to shove the hole you can't see in the brace pole onto a pin you can't see in the post.

I didn't have 2 come-alongs either @babsbag, in fact I didn't even have ONE! I bought two. There have been more than one occasion when having a come-along would have been SO much easier than screwing around making do with what I could find on hand.


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## greybeard (Jan 8, 2017)

The old way of doing it Bruce, is after the two posts are set, you cut a rest in each of the posts. This accepts the horizontal brace. No drilling required.  I always took a little bow saw or limb saw along, measured the diameter of the horizontal brace post and made 2 cuts into aech of the vertical posts about 1/2" deep, then chiseled out the area between the 2 cuts. Measure the distance between the cuts in the posts, and cut the horizontal brace post to that dimension, or just a hair longer. Once it's in there, drive a large nail in at an angle to hold it in place, then put the diagonal wire however needed, forcing the 2 vertical posts even tighter together sandwiching the horizontal member between them.
I've done lots & lots of them just this way.

(not to scale obviously.)
 
(wire X only because a heavy gate is on the right and fence wire tension on the left)


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## Bruce (Jan 8, 2017)

Seems like that would work  I'm sure 2 big nails are cheaper than 2 brace pins. The Red Brand video show the same as you said, plant the posts then cut the brace to be the proper length. I chose to not have to cut the 5" horizontal brace. I had enough "fun" cutting the angles for the 3 floating braces. Might have thought differently if I had a reciprocating saw though. 

One then needs to balance the cost of materials and time spent  Of course since I can't drill a level horizontal hole without the assistance of a small level, I don't suppose it would take any longer to cut and chisel a shallow rest in the posts than it took me to drill the holes. 

I will keep this in mind the next time I need to build an H-brace. Thanks @greybeard


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## enggass (Jan 9, 2017)

Ok, so, what then is adequate material for a couple of Nigerian Dwarfs. 
Will this work? http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/red-brand-square-deal-field-fence-330-ft
or do I need to go with this...
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/goat-fence-48-in-x-330-ft

I would prefer the $150 option...


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## Baymule (Jan 9, 2017)

Field fence is crap.  Actually it is worse than crap,  but this is a family forum so I won't use those descriptive terms here. Your goats could probably walk through the holes. You get what you pay for. Did I mention that field fence is crap?

The goat fence is what you want. It is good wire. Some of us are putting up 2"x4" non climb horse wire. I like it because it keeps even the chickens in and everything else out. It is expensive, but I only plan on doing this once.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/non-climb-horse-fence-48-in-x-200-ft?cm_vc=-10005

I am glad for your sake that you came here to ask about fencing BEFORE you put up field fencing and found our what a major goof you made.


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## babsbag (Jan 9, 2017)

@Bruce What is a brace pin?  If the deal on the property comes through I will have to fence some areas without my beloved trees that I use for corners. I have a post hole auger and I understand the H brace and will probably use that and not a floating one. I have never built either, my one and only corner that isn't a tree is made from T-posts, functional but not pretty.


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## Latestarter (Jan 10, 2017)

I believe the brace pin is a pin that extends through the vertical post and into the end of the horizontal post to help hold it in place. You want to leave about 1/2" of the pin sticking out on the non-brace side of the fence vertical so you have a handy place to wrap your "X" wires to add support to the fence.


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## babsbag (Jan 10, 2017)

Hmmm. They make a special pin for this?  Guess I need to do some research.


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## Latestarter (Jan 10, 2017)

Or you can use a chunk of rebar, or one of those really long like landscaping nails that are 12" long or some such. really any metal item to tie it all together would work. Or skip it and notch the vertical post to hold the horizontal up then drive some long nails down through at an angle through the horizontal into the vertical to hold it in place.


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## greybeard (Jan 10, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> I believe the brace pin is a pin that extends through the vertical post and into the end of the horizontal post to help hold it in place. You want to leave about 1/2" of the pin sticking out on the non-brace side of the fence vertical so you have a handy place to wrap your "X" wires to add support to the fence.


Ideally, the tension of the diagonal wire will hold the 2 vertical posts firmly against the horizontal brace enough that it is secure, but with cattle, I've seen that horizontal member get knocked out of it's position, so the brace pin or a large nail on each end is usually enough to hold it in place if it gets hit by an animal r some crazy old guy on a tractor.

Drawing shows nail holding the horiz brace into a cut on the left--and how a brace pin is used on the right. 
I have never used a brace pin, but have seen it done, and no cut is made into the vertical post.


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## Bruce (Jan 10, 2017)

What they said   TSC is currently selling the box of five 10" brace pins for $2.44. Website says "was $4.89" and I think that is what I paid. Maybe it is a 'not fencing season' thing. They also have 5" pins. Depends on what size posts you are using. Can't use a 5" pin if you are using a 6" post and either want to drill through into the horizontal member like I suggested earlier or want to leave 1/2" or so out as @Latestarter said to 'anchor' the brace wire to keep it from sliding down the post. The pins don't pull the posts together, they just keep the horizontal from slipping down, same as the notch and BIG nail on the left side of @greybeard's  drawing above.

If you don't have a pin sticking out, you use fence staples as is commonly done at the bottom. That is shown in a number of videos but as I mentioned earlier, trying to hit a hole that you can't see in post with the pin sticking out of a heavy long horizontal member isn't much fun. I found it much easier to just anchor the horizontal where I want it with ratchet straps and drill through the post into the horizontal then pound in the pin whether I needed to have a brace wire there or not. Having the horizontal cranked tight during the pin pounding process makes that easier as well since there will be less "bounce". It isn't until the brace wire is in place that the H-brace is really solid but the ratchet straps keep it stiff while pounding the pins. Oh, and I misstated the drilling process before. I don't need a level for that, I can eyeball it. I use the level to drill the holes for the bolt hooks to hang the gates on.

If you are going to hang a gate on one side or the other, you need to use an H-brace. In the drawing above, it is braced for a gate or stretched fence on the left. To put a gate or fence on the right, you would need brace wire in the opposite direction. If you have both stretched fence and a gate on the H-brace, you need brace wire in both directions.

With all the @#$%^ rocks and ledge here, I did use floating braces where I could. One less post and brace pin to buy, 1 less pin hole (or notch) to make but more importantly one less 3' deep hole to dig. On the other hand, if you have easy digging ground and a power auger, you can avoid figuring out and buying/finding what you are going to use for the ground pad and cutting on both ends of the angle brace part. As noted above I set the posts for my H-braces with the horizontal member on the ground as a spacer so I didn't have to cut it to length. 

You can learn a lot by watching fencing videos by RedBrand and others. But they never have rocks or heavy soil and always have helpers when necessary  You will find a lot that use "twitch sticks" to tighten the brace wire. Personally, while inline fence strainers are much more expensive than a stick, I used them. Much more control and you aren't relying on a 'stick' (could be a metal rod) twisted in the wire to hold it.


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## babsbag (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks for all the info and tips. I will definitely use H braces and I also have gates. I have seen some bracing on fences where they make an "h" type brace but the horizontal post is actually diagonal. Any advantage to that? I could easily notch out the posts too but I would use either my chain saw or my reciprocal saw as a "grinder" and skip the chisel. I cheat... 

DH will help with this fencing but I better know what I want and the way I want it or there will be some long drawn out debate and I would prefer to avoid that. I will try and set the corners during the week while he is at work so no debating possible. This fence is on the main road that all the neighbors travel so I really want it to be straight, neat, and tidy.


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## Bruce (Jan 10, 2017)

@greybeard will have to answer that one.  

MAYBE they aren't using brace wire and the angled wood is serving that purpose with the 'free' post acting as the anchor point? If so the bracing will be opposite what you would do with brace wire on a H-brace. If that brace was used in place of the brace wire in the diagram, the fence would run FROM the left post off to the right. That angled post provides support via compression, brace wire supports with tension. In the diagram, the brace wire both pulls the top of the left post to the right and forces the horizontal against the right post giving it strength against the fence pulling from the left. Thus BOTH posts are structural in that they support the pull of the tensioned fence. With that 'free' post, there is nothing other than the part of it that is in the ground to keep it from being pulled to the right by the fence so you wouldn't use it other than for holding the fence up vertically.

I think the structural difference between that and a floating brace is that the brace is pushing against the bottom of the 'free' post which keeps the brace from moving away from the end post as the fence pulls and from sinking into the ground. With a floating brace, the bottom of the brace is tension wired back to the bottom of the end post and a 'pad' of the proper size is used to keep the brace from being forced into the ground by the fence tension. Thus the net is you don't have brace wire, pad and a tensioner but you still need 2 posts and 2 holes. I suppose there could be some value to that angled wood brace but I would likely do the H-brace. Yes more 'hardware' but if you decide you want a gate there in the future, you already have a hinge side built, it would only need a brace wire in the opposite direction. Plus, BOTH posts can take fence tension.


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