# Holistic pasture management/farming.....



## Beekissed (Sep 30, 2019)

....anyone doing it? 

 Through the Lord's leading, I had started some of these methods over the years and even here recently (found, by God's design, how much seed and fertilizer there is in mulch hay and started scavenging for it to spread on this nutrient poor soil)without having knowledge that others had come to the same conclusion but in other ways, but am pleased to find out others have found the same methods and are implementing them to improve pasture and soil health.  

Here's some vids on some of it.....






https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=194&v=0JoLYw-HNvs











There's tons more info out there but I think this can be applied to smallholdings if a person just wants to work at it and move livestock in such a way as to improve the pasture rather than denude it and then start a dry lot situation.


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## Baymule (Oct 2, 2019)

This is going to be a good thread. Recently we moved the horses hay ring on the pipeline so the dropped hay and manure can help the soil. When we get another bale, we move the location in order to cover the pipeline. We get not so great square bales to spread also.


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## Beekissed (Oct 2, 2019)

Baymule said:


> This is going to be a good thread. Recently we moved the horses hay ring on the pipeline so the dropped hay and manure can help the soil. When we get another bale, we move the location in order to cover the pipeline. We get not so great square bales to spread also.



I'm getting a bigger, more heavy duty trailer in the spring so I can scavenge all the free mulch round bales I can garner and spread out on this land.  This year I was able to get 14.5 free round bales for that purpose.   That guy had some great, clean hay in his fields, so I felt confident about spreading his bales.  

I'm thinking a person would have to be careful about what quality of seed they are spreading....some folks bale up pure trash/weeds out there and feed it to their cows.  

Since I've already started this, I'm going to expand the idea to using polywire electric fencing to form my grazing paddocks so I can move the sheep to fresh graze in a mob grazing style.   That will mean I can keep more sheep than I had originally planned for the first few years, so if I get any good ewe lambs this next spring, I'll be keeping them to form a goodly number in my "mob".


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## Baymule (Oct 2, 2019)

I chicken tractor the Cornish Cross I raise each spring. I bed them with hay 1st day, add more hay 2nd day, move tractor 3rd day. This spring was the 2nd time I raised them and it does improve the soil. 

We had the horse pasture forestry mulched. it left the big trees and chewed up the smaller ones, leaving a layer of mulch behind. Right now we are in drought, under a burn ban, dry, dry, dry and need rain. After we get a good rain, we are going to pull back some of the mulch in strips and plant Crimson clover and a triploid rye grass. The clover will fix nitrogen in the soil. In the spring, I'm going to sow bahia seed.


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## Beekissed (Oct 2, 2019)

Baymule said:


> After we get a good rain, we are going to pull back some of the mulch in strips and plant Crimson clover and a triploid rye grass. The clover will fix nitrogen in the soil. In the spring, I'm going to sow bahia seed.



I'm wondering if you can plant right into that mulch?  Seems a shame to pull it back when the clover can grow right in it and through it.  Also wondering what would happen if you just get mulch round bales spread on it instead of trying to buy seed and plant it.  The hay mulches down quicker than wood chip and can give you a covering and quick top soil in which the seed it contains can grow.


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## Baymule (Oct 2, 2019)

The seed needs contact with soil or it will not germinate. I have looked for old hay bales around here, in almost 5 years, have not found any. I use the dead hay from the sheep and horses round bales to spread on the pastures. 

The wood chips from the land clearing will form swales to help control erosion.


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## Beekissed (Oct 2, 2019)

Baymule said:


> The seed needs contact with soil or it will not germinate. I have looked for old hay bales around here, in almost 5 years, have not found any. I use the dead hay from the sheep and horses round bales to spread on the pastures.
> 
> The wood chips from the land clearing will form swales to help control erosion.



How deep and solid is the mulched wood in that area?  Any spaces wherein the seed can fall to the soil below?  

How expensive are round bales in your area, Bay?  Would it be feasible to buy regular round bales and roll them out on that area, thereby using the seeds in the bales and the bales themselves to plant that area?  

This guy's vids are most informative on pasture building holistically....this vid in particular he tells about buying up round bales and how much seed was in them, what type and how expensive that seed mix goes for when you buy it by the pound, etc.   






That's the same conclusion I came too after seeing how much seed and what type of growth I got by just putting hay down to keep the dog run from being so muddy.   Lush and tall red clover came up the following spring and that was in an area that is mostly shaded!  

What these guys are doing in those barren areas is rolling out the hay they feed instead of using it as a round bale.  A lot gets trampled, wasted and mashed into the soil, especially if doing the mob grazing...and the result is a seeded pasture that didn't require much effort or machine work, not to mention buying of seed.


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## Baymule (Oct 2, 2019)

We buy round bales for $60, they are Bermuda and not a lot of seed. 

The mulch is pretty deep in most of the area. it will require being pulled back to expose the soil so seed can make contact. I am ok with that, as we can form the mulch into swales, cover with dirt or horse manure. The swales will slow down the water run off, keeping more of it on our property.


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## Baymule (Oct 2, 2019)

The big log in the picture above was left to act as a swale. It was a huge oak tree that died in the drought of 2011. We have two massive dead pine trees that need to come down and they will also be used to slow down the rain run off. Up in a front pasture was a large pine log that we left instead of cutting it up and dragging to the burn pile. It has rotted and is now adding humus and fertility to the soil.


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## Beekissed (Oct 3, 2019)

Finding Greg Judy's YT channel to be a wealth of info on how they develop pasture and do their mob grazing of cattle and sheep.  I'm particularly interested in the sheep....he's using St. Croix and have developed a flock that is parasite resistant to the point of being almost entirely parasite free.  Some of that is due to the development of the genetics for it but also a lot due to the rotational grazing aspect of his management.


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## Sheepshape (Oct 4, 2019)

Baymule said:


> The mulch is pretty deep in most of the area. it will require being pulled back to expose the soil so seed can make contact


Just a thought....that top layer looks pretty dry. Would hosing it down help? As we have such a wet climate, that straw would rapidly become soaked and would rot down fast over here (may go mouldy, though).


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## Beekissed (Oct 4, 2019)

A vid on swales....I too have questioned the efficacy of swales and hugelkulture styles of trying to grow things.


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## Baymule (Oct 4, 2019)

Videos are hard for me to watch. They stop, circle, start, stop, circle FOREVER, start and by that time I want to throw my laptop against the wall. Plus they eat up my plan time. 



Sheepshape said:


> Just a thought....that top layer looks pretty dry. Would hosing it down help? As we have such a wet climate, that straw would rapidly become soaked and would rot down fast over here (may go mouldy, though).


We are in a drought mode right now, EVERYTHING is dry, our sandy soil is a fine powder, every footstep brings up a cloud of choking dust. The horse pasture is 2 1/2 acres, so not watering it, it would cost a fortune! We are on community water. Our normal yearly rainfall is 46 inches, so we usually get a lot of rain, just been a dry summer. We are waiting on rain to settle the dust, then we'll take the tractor to help push away the wood chip mulch in strips for planting clover and rye grass seed. At some point, we'll let the horses graze it, then plant bahia and giant Bermuda grass seed in the early spring. I am planning on 2 years to get pasture established there. Then we'll close the horses off the pipeline and repeat the process there. At the same time we are working on 3 other pastures for the sheep to graze, those pastures have a good start of Bermuda, will add bahia also. Eventually the plan is to have a good stand of mixed clovers, endophyte free tall fescue for fall/winter grass. Have to plant rye grass every year as even the perennial rye won't survive the summer heat. Then for summer, Bermuda and bahia. The sheep don't care for the Bermuda, but it is needed to provide a cover for the sand. Once bahia gets started, it will slowly take over the Bermuda, providing a good summer graze mix.


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## Beekissed (Oct 4, 2019)

It's a shame you can't watch the vids, Bay, as you could get some really good information from them about how to do that all cheaper and with less labor by using your livestock.  

What is wrong with your internet?   I have an ancient laptop I use here and DSL, so vids sometimes have to load, but nothing as slow as yours and we live out in the boonies.


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## Baymule (Oct 4, 2019)

Satellite TV and internet. The internet is a not so great plan, but it still costs nearly a hundred bucks a month. We are 7 miles from one town, 9 miles from another and 9 miles from another town, but there are no services. Go figure.


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## Sheepshape (Oct 5, 2019)

Bay, I feel for you! Our internet was The Worst up until about 6 weeks ago.....download speed 0.13mB/s. We are 11 miles from the nearest market town, lots of hills/mountains, no drains for fibres (which they wouldn't bother to lay as the population of the area is tiny) and no terrestrial TV either. So we have had satellite TV for years, but Sky don't provide internet to our area. So for years we struggled.

Most folk will never see this screen



 

For us everything changed when a little local company came along with wifi internet. Took ages to get all the masts up and running and the need to put a relay to our place on a neighbour's barn, but it eventually arrived. Installed on the back of a government grant and has dragged us into the 21st century with regards to internet. The only phone signal we have is via wifi on iPhones, but even that may change relatively soon via 'emergency call masts'.

But, Bay, it's SO difficult for folk who have cable to appreciate what living in the sticks can (though not always) do to connectivity.


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## Beekissed (Oct 5, 2019)

We live 20 mi. from the nearest town or cell tower, with many mountains all around~no TV, cable or satellite,  but we have a landline phone.  The phone lines are buried and this tiny telephone company that serves just our county offers DSL, which is surprisingly fast compared to when I had dial up way back when I got my first computer in the 90s.  

My kids always complain about how slow my old computer is, but it's lightning fast compared to that old dial up, so I'm quite pleased with it.  We get phone and DSL in one bill and it costs around $90 per month, unlimited usage for both.


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## Baymule (Oct 6, 2019)

At our old house, it was a local phone company, only a couple of blocks from our house. We got a land line, TV and internet for $110 a month. It was great, but I wouldn't go back if wild horses were dragging me. We love it here.


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## Beekissed (Oct 7, 2019)

Here's one about parasite resistance in sheep.....






No hay winter sheep grazing...






Lambing out on pasture....






Low cost sheep fencing....






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afEu18zylNA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwKcunHiaNk


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## Beekissed (Oct 8, 2019)

Pasture walk with Greg Judy, parts one and two....incredibly informative, even for us small holders.   Great tips in all areas of pasture development, how to graze, how to situate water and minerals in each paddock, etc. 

He talks about how to graze the grass~what time of day the Brix levels are highest, what to look for in your livestock when grazing, etc.  Just TONS of info in each video that can be implemented even by us folks on smallholdings.


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## secuono (Oct 8, 2019)

I hate watching videos. I want the information now, not 20min later peppered through a rambling video. 
Anyone have text to read on what this is all about?


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## Beekissed (Oct 8, 2019)

secuono said:


> I hate watching videos. I want the information now, not 20min later peppered through a rambling video.
> Anyone have text to read on what this is all about?



Yeah, you can buy his books on Amazon.   The vids are well worth the wait and listening to for the information if you truly want to change your pasture, your soil, the way you raise your animals, for the health and profit of your herds, etc.


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## farmerjan (Oct 8, 2019)

Greg Judy has some good books.  Also, get involved with a grass assoc in your state.  In Va it is Va Forage and Grasslands.  They have 4 conferences around the state in January, prices are about $30 per person or so.  They usually have some good speakers, Greg Judy has spoken at ours one year, Temple Grandin another year, as well as other farmers that are doing rotational grazing, stockpile grass for winter grazing, different practices.  I have learned something from every conference.  The local extension service also puts on some good "pasture walks" and such.

Greg Judy is right about the leasing to a point.  In his area there might be more "below average"  land/farms available but here in our area, there aren't alot that aren't already rented.  Plus we deal with owners wanting way too much money for the pasture land and they get the tax advantage on top of it.  We have had places for over 20 years, and some as little as 2 years.  We also have to be careful because many of these places are along fairly well traveled roads.  Without real good fences, there are too many liability issues. 
Many older farms the fences are so run down as to be non-existent.  Okay, so you run electric.... OH wait, the deer make runs through the electric.....literally THROUGH IT.  So you are constantly fixing electric.  It is not a good deal when you are putting in that much time to put up electric daily because the deer have torn it down.  We used to rent almost anything that was offered to us.  Made several places alot nicer than they were, just from bush hogging and running cattle. But when you go to the owner and tell them that fence needs to be replaced, not just patched again, many will balk at it.  We do many as you buy the materials, we do the labor.... and some we still have.  We have always done it on a 5 yr lease minimum.  But now, so many don't want to put in the money, or they go up on their rent and we have gotten out of some.  We pay on the average of $50 per acre per year.  With the cattle prices so low, it doesn't pay unless the places are fenced and there is water.  I don't want to just break even, my time is worth something to me if it isn't worth anything to anyone else. 
So we are slowly cutting back on the leased/rented places unless the fences are good and there is water.  And we don't rent any without a 5 year lease now because as soon as it is improved a little bit, someone will come along and offer more for lease money, and you will lose it.  Happened twice in the last 3 years, and we are a little burnt out over that.  
Yes,  borrowed money to buy, with a mortgage, is not a perfect set up.  But no one will come along and tell you that your lease is up, or tell you that they want this and that done now.... and you can do it the way you want.  Our cows are paying the mortgage on the one farm, and that is what we wanted.  Any improvements are adding value to the place.


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## Beekissed (Oct 8, 2019)

Are you using regenerative grazing on your place and the places you are leasing?


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## AmberLops (Oct 8, 2019)

These are very helpful videos!!


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## Beekissed (Oct 8, 2019)

AmberLops said:


> These are very helpful videos!!



I thought so!  I'm learning so many little tidbits from this man's YT channel and other folks who post his talks.   I have just small acreage and very few animals, but he has shown me the possibilities and how to realize them, even if in a small way.  

If I can pull it off here, it will realize all the dreams I've had about this place....that we actually make money~even if it's a small amount~instead of spending money mowing it each year.  

I'm still unsure about what size to implement on my strips/paddocks for the number of sheep I'll have, but I guess that's something I'll find out through trial and error.


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## AmberLops (Oct 8, 2019)

Beekissed said:


> I thought so!  I'm learning so many little tidbits from this man's YT channel and other folks who post his talks.   I have just small acreage and very few animals, but he has shown me the possibilities and how to realize them, even if in a small way.
> 
> If I can pull it off here, it will realize all the dreams I've had about this place....that we actually make money~even if it's a small amount~instead of spending money mowing it each year.
> 
> I'm still unsure about what size to implement on my strips/paddocks for the number of sheep I'll have, but I guess that's something I'll find out through trial and error.


What kind of sheep do you raise?
It's always helpful when people share their experiences and their trials and errors..you can learn a lot from other people's mistakes too!
I plan on getting sheep soon and I think these videos will help a lot with that.


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## Beekissed (Oct 8, 2019)

AmberLops said:


> What kind of sheep do you raise?
> It's always helpful when people share their experiences and their trials and errors..you can learn a lot from other people's mistakes too!
> I plan on getting sheep soon and I think these videos will help a lot with that.



I'm raising Katahdins right now but in the past I've had both Katahdins and St.Croix/Katahdin cross sheep.  

I too think it's valuable to talk about one's mistakes...if I am learning from them, could be someone else could too.


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## AmberLops (Oct 8, 2019)

Beekissed said:


> I'm raising Katahdins right now but in the past I've had both Katahdins and St.Croix/Katahdin cross sheep.
> 
> I too think it's valuable to talk about one's mistakes...if I am learning from them, could be someone else could too.


I used to have St. Croix 
When I had them I did everything natural/holistic for them...feed, supplements, de-wormer....everything! They did really well. I had 2 acres for 6 sheep...they never had hay because I was in Hawaii at the time. They always had healthy lambs, no hoof issues or parasite overloads.
I think living in TN, things will be a little different but I still plan on doing everything as holistically as possible and these videos give great tips on pasture management etc


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## Beekissed (Oct 8, 2019)

AmberLops said:


> I used to have St. Croix
> When I had them I did everything natural/holistic for them...feed, supplements, de-wormer....everything! They did really well. I had 2 acres for 6 sheep...they never had hay because I was in Hawaii at the time. They always had healthy lambs, no hoof issues or parasite overloads.
> I think living in TN, things will be a little different but I still plan on doing everything as holistically as possible and these videos give great tips on pasture management etc



They do!  I've always felt it was possible to never deworm nor flush with or feed grain and Mr. Judy has proved that over and over.  I want to do that here also and I have no problem culling hard for the ability to do it.  

Right now the sheep are scoring 3-3.5 as they go into breeding season and that's with no grain supplement nor chemical deworming for them.  They get 2 days on, 2 days off pasture so the ram can get graze too(I don't have established paddocks yet, just open range) and I can't wait until they can all graze together.  This season it can be like that, but by spring I hope to have paddocks established so I can rotate them through those with the use of polywire.  

By next year I want to expand my total pasture area and start clearing wood lots to get into some silvopasture.  I have acorns in these woods that can be utilized by the sheep if I can just get their pasture to those areas.


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## AmberLops (Oct 8, 2019)

Beekissed said:


> They do!  I've always felt it was possible to never deworm nor flush with or feed grain and Mr. Judy has proved that over and over.  I want to do that here also and I have no problem culling hard for the ability to do it.
> 
> Right now the sheep are scoring 3-3.5 as they go into breeding season and that's with no grain supplement nor chemical deworming for them.  They get 2 days on, 2 days off pasture so the ram can get graze too(I don't have established paddocks yet, just open range) and I can't wait until they can all graze together.  This season it can be like that, but by spring I hope to have paddocks established so I can rotate them through those with the use of polywire.
> 
> By next year I want to expand my total pasture area and start clearing wood lots to get into some silvopasture.  I have acorns in these woods that can be utilized by the sheep if I can just get their pasture to those areas.


Sounds like you have some amazing plans! Good luck and please update and let us all know how it's working out


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## Beekissed (Oct 9, 2019)

This one is one of my faves....love his last statement and it's one I've been using for some many years now.  The power of the cull and being the predator for your own flocks.


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## farmerjan (Oct 9, 2019)

Beekissed said:


> Are you using regenerative grazing on your place and the places you are leasing?


I was rereading this thread and realized that you were asking me if we use regenerative grazing on the leased places.  I am not sure that that is the right term for what we are doing. 
We use controlled rotational grazing on the different farms.  90% of them have no cattle on them for 4-6 months of the year.   Most are set up with multiple sections for grazing.  We usually move cattle to the pastures in the spring when there is anywhere from 8-12 inches of grass height.  All according to what the season is like, as to how many times the cattle are moved through the different pastures.  If it is wet, and growing fast like in 2018, they were moved through faster to try to stay ahead of the grass so not too much headed out and went to seed when it will go dormant. 
This year was different. We had a pretty normal year up until late August when it pretty much got dry.  There were some spotty rains, but overall we were drier than normal and much much hotter than normal. The normal growth of cool season grasses did not happen as it often does.  We had stockpiled a couple of sections at different places, and have turned the cattle in on them and are allowing the other sections to rest and hopefully to grow if we get any/much precip.  It is late in the year though, for us to get alot of regrowth now. 

We have a "home farm" where most of the cattle get moved to for the winter for ease of care and feeding. Also have 2 other places that have nothing on them for the bulk of the summer and the cows will come "home" to them also, and they will graze all the stockpiled grasses from the summer.  They will calve there and then in the late spring, will get moved out to other summer grazing. 
Most places have certain requirements/agreements in place that the owners want.  One is that at all of them but one, there has to be one bush hogging a year to keep the weed species down.  It is not a big deal to do that and it shreds and puts back down more organic matter into the soil.  Since one of the biggest problems we have in this area is autumn olive and multiflora rose bushes, I can agree.  Both are introduced invasive species.  If we could run the sheep at these pastures, it would help, but we don't have the fences at any of these pastures,  for our kind of sheep to keep them in.  Electric does not work.  So we keep them both in check by bushogging.  
The earthworm populations have increased on most places as I will do a count by shovelful at least once a year on different places.  The grasses have gotten better at several since the cattle have been rotationally grazed so that we have actually increased the number on a couple of places.  I think that the organic matter has improved, but we have alot of rock and limestone outcropping in this area, so the improvements are harder to actually see. 

And it takes time.  One place we had for over 25 years.  It went from producing about 25-30 round bales of hay for first cutting, then pastured.... to producing over 80 round bales this year. It's 22 acres of which we can cut off about 18 due to the very prominent outcroppings of rock.   Unfortunately, we lost the farm and pasture across the road, due to being sold, so no longer have water available on this piece across the road.  We were going to put a 1,000 gal tank there this year and run some cattle late and may still do so for the next 2 months, but it will have to be filled weekly in order to have the number of cattle there to graze it off.  This is the sort of thing that makes it get to the point where it is not economically viable.
  This is not something we do as a hobby, the cattle have to pay their own way at the very least.  We work other jobs, but the purpose of the cattle were to be able to pay off the mortgage on the one farm, pay the costs associated with keeping them,  and be able to have them be a source of income for living in the future.   We do not control the price that we get for our animals, and that is where it is hitting every single farmer in this country.   Small niche markets are great and we do sell some direct.  But our business is to raise and sell feeder cattle in the 450-650 lb size. We are getting the same as we were getting 20 years ago.  Everything else has gone up. 

Farmland is getting eaten up here into small little "hobby farms" of 5-20 acres with big houses on them and people who just can't get their heads wrapped around that you can't put 10 animals on 10 acres and have it all looking like a pristine perfect little farm postcard.  They want rents that are not reasonable, and that you cannot run enough animals to pay for the rent without destroying the ground. 
The opposite end is the farms that the owners have gotten older, they did not keep up with any of the repairs of the fences, even letting some of the barns get into bad shape, and then although the rents are reasonable for the land value, the fences are such that it will cost too much to do all that and make it viable. They do not have much  liquidity for their retirement, and cannot afford to put it into the farm structures or fences.  The kids are all waiting for them to go into nursing homes or pass away so that they can sell the farm off and take what they can get.  There are usually 4-10 kids, and a couple that don't get along with the rest, so can't come to an agreement on anything so the place just goes downhill.  Or there is the one that has stayed on the farm, helping, running it, and the others want "their share"  and the one that has spent their whole life hoping to take it over, loses out.  I've seen it over and over.  It hurts our hearts to go to these farm sales, and see a lifetime of hard work and sweat, that raised up all these kids and gave them a future, and these adult kids cannot see past the dollar signs that they will get out of it.  Then go on to complain that food costs so much.  Add in that the land values are such, that someone starting out cannot afford to buy the farm intact even if they have the youth and strength and ability to put the work into it to make it a working farm again. 

Unfortunately, here in this area, it is only going to get worse because of our proximity to the interstate and accessibility to DC, Richmond, Harrisonburg, Roanoke and such.  College towns, and moneyed people. 
So we do what we can, with what we have, and try to make some places better.  We have 2 that are in "conservation easement" and that will preserve the land, but the restrictions are such that going forward the options are limited for anyone wanting to buy them to farm possibly in a different manner.  Both these places are owned by someone who made his money in other ways, and owns several apartment buildings, as well as other stuff. Don't know what will happen after he is gone, but his kids aren't interested in them,  and I doubt we would ever be able to afford even one of them.
   Lease another that we use as "home base" that belonged to a friend that died of cancer.  He and his brother owned the farm, split between them, and we lease both pieces.  Sits along the interstate which divided the whole farm years ago, the other side having been sold off,  so it is worth many times what farming could ever hope to make from it.  It will be sold for commercial or industrial use when the time comes I am sure.  But until then, we will do what we can to make the land better for having been there.


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## Beekissed (Oct 9, 2019)

After watching Mr. Judy's vids I've come to find out my grass is not great~which I already knew~but that everything we were doing(mowing, mowing, mowing)had made it worse, and that my sheep are really grazing closely due to all that mowing~which increases chances of picking up parasites.  

I also found out I have some Korean lespedeza all over this meadow, due to the poor pH of the soil, which sheep love and is a hot, mid summer graze.  I also have moss growing underneath the majority of my grass here(this used to be an old pine grove).  

Today I'm spreading out hay windrows from where I rolled out several roundbales on the land.  The strands of this hay are too long for the chickens to shift, I've found, so I'll have to do the spreading by  hand.   A good pitchfork is essential, a three or four tined and very sharp tool...I pick these up as antiques at yard sales and flea markets for around $10, cut off the handle to suit my short stature, and use them all year round in the coop and garden.  Now they are getting even more use...I've found them invaluable over the years.  They just made things better back then.  

The great thing about sheep is they trim a lot of the not so good stuff off as they pick through it for the stuff they like...you can watch them as they filter it faster than one can imagine and pieces come out of the corners of their mouths.  This makes for a good, even mowing of the graze, while leaving the undesirable stuff behind as mulch.  

I can't wait to get a rotational grazing system going and see what these sheep can turn this nasty ol' graze into over time.  Right now I'm spreading a lot of carbon down before winter and, hopefully, in the spring some good hay mix seed will grow up out of that.


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## Beekissed (Oct 9, 2019)

Here's a pretty basic, simple explanation of regenerative farming/holistic management/grazing:


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## Beekissed (Oct 10, 2019)

I was doing some figuring about the money we spend on fixing riding mowers here...this season we spent over $300 on just one of the mowers, while another $100 was spent on just tires for one of them.  Just think about how many round bales of hay at $25 ea. I could have bought for that and rolled out on the land! 

Not to mention all the gas we pour into these machines....that's even more round bales of seed and mulch we could be laying down.


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## Beekissed (Oct 14, 2019)




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## Beekissed (Oct 16, 2019)

How to put nitrogen on your fields while you are feeding hay to your animals....but without buying any urea/nitrogen!


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## Baymule (Oct 16, 2019)

Since I feed round bales, I thought you would find this interesting. We moved the horses round bale to the pipeline. Every time we get a new bale, we move it. We started at the gully  and are moving forward. In wet weather, water runs in the gully. Seeps ooze out of the ground, trickling down the gully. Might as well let the horses wasted hay, urine and manure enrich the soil. In the picture, on the other side of the gully, you can see the lines of hay. We laid sections of square bales to form baffling to slow water run off and erosion.


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## Baymule (Oct 16, 2019)

We have dragged and burned tons of briars, branches, weeds and such over the last 4 1/2 years. But some we piled up in low spots and covered with horse manure. The tree trunks have rotted nicely, returning nutrients to the soil. These pictures are in pasture #1. 

This was once a BIG pile! After I took the picture, I picked up a lot of wind fall limbs and placed on the pile. We’ll cover with more horse manure. 



 

These are a couple of smaller piles, they are almost totally returned to the soil. 



 



 

Sentry is watching Mom. Hey! Look at all these sticks! 



 

This was a huge pine tree that was cut down, but still attached to the stump, when we bought the place. The stump was over two feet across. We picked up branches and laid next to the trunk. The pile is almost gone back to the soil. The stump is in the foreground. 



 

We had some winged elm cut to open up the ground to more sunlight. The Sheep ate the tops off. Today we cut off the branches and hauled to the burn pile. We laid the trunks down and will cover with dead hay from the Sheep round bale, and sheep manure. 



 

You can see the hay pile in the background that we’ll cover the trunks with.


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## Baymule (Oct 16, 2019)

I have spread dead hay over the bare ground at the barn to keep the choking dust down. We finally got rain several times and I have winter grass sprouting up. Last fall we spread dead hay and got a nice stand of rye grass. 




 

I have tiny green sprouts! Clover or weeds? LOL


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## Beekissed (Oct 16, 2019)

@Baymule , I wish you could watch vids!   What these guys are doing is, instead of feeding hay in rings or keeping the bales intact, they are rolling them out and letting the stock eat them, sleep on them, trample them, foul them and they are keeping the animals in smaller space with the use of polybraid electric so they have to really work that hay, poop and pee in before they move on.

Now, initially it seems like a colossal waste, but you should see the prime pasture that comes up out of that in a few years!!!   The way Mr. Judy breaks it down, the amount of fertilizer, seed, and machines one would have to pay for to create that level of pasture is so much more expensive than the hay one rolls out. 

After some years of that, they no longer have to buy hay to feed in the winter...they just feed winter stockpiled graze!   How cool is that? 

I can just visualize that whole slope above your horses as green, lush pasture with huge diversity of species and your sheep and horses taking turns grazing through it.  LOVELY.

That Sentry is such a beautiful dog!!!  My next LGD I want to be a pure Anatolian and I want to keep him with the sheep full time from a pup so he's bonded to them instead of me.

I love what you are doing with waste wood, Bay!   Look how fast it returns to the soil when you add manure...much better than burning it, I would say.

Since you can't watch vids, maybe you'd enjoy his blog and articles instead:  http://greenpasturesfarm.net/blog/


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## Beekissed (Oct 16, 2019)

Those pics you show of the sprouts through the hay made me think of this article, @Baymule :  http://greenpasturesfarm.net/2019/05/30/greg-judy-article-building-soil-with-wasted-grass/


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## Baymule (Oct 16, 2019)

I use my wasted hay, it never goes to waste! At $65 a roll, i'm afraid I can't roll it out to let the horses poop all over it. My moving the round bale will just have to do! It lasts several weeks, rolled out flat, it might keep them happy a few days. In a cattle feeding situation, my ex in-laws fed round bales daily, and they rolled them out so the cattle could all get to the hay. If the bale had been left whole, the weaker cows wouldn't have been able to eat. So there is merit in rolling out a bale, but too expensive for me! 

We rake up the dead hay and spread it on poor ground.  It works for us.


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## Beekissed (Oct 16, 2019)

After buying just two types of seed to seed one small~and I do mean small~part of the meadow, and seeing very minimal results from all the seed, lime and fertilizer I applied to that one spot, I can afford to waste the hay.     The seed costs WAY more and yields WAY less than my spreading out this hay I bought~I got 1200 lb round bales for $25 ea this year.   I also bought some really crappy quality square bales for $3 ea. and that was a complete waste for feeding purposes...I'm hoping they will make decent ground cover, though.  

Of course, I'm not feeding horses and they are much pickier than cows or sheep, aren't they?


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## frustratedearthmother (Oct 16, 2019)

Baymule said:


> At $65 a roll, i'm afraid I can't roll it out to let the horses poop all over it.


I feel ya on that one!


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## Beekissed (Oct 18, 2019)

Was walking the land this morning with Mom, showing her the areas I want to fence off for grazing the sheep under, what trees I want to cut to thin out the canopy, and looking at available forage.   Made me really excited!!!

If I can slowly start extending fence all up this ridge, I could utilize most of this 20 acres as pasture and silvopasture by the time I'm done.  This means I can run more sheep, which means I can use the profit from lamb sales to make back the initial investments and any ongoing expenses, but finally be operating at a profit within 3-4 yrs, if the Lord wills it.  That profit can go towards paying property taxes, repairs and upgrades on the house and vehicles, etc.  

Meanwhile, we can generate a lot of firewood and lumber along the way, increase production of our existing oak and cherry trees~which will make more food for the sheep and chickens!~increase feed for the wildlife(translate "hunting"), and make the place even more beautiful along the way.  All that will also increase property values. 

Really excited about the development of this land with the help of sheep.  I was looking at available grasses and legumes that are merely stunted and crowded out by moss all over this current lawn/meadow and we have quite a variety of good stuff...it just needs a chance to express itself.


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## Beekissed (Oct 19, 2019)




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## Beekissed (Oct 19, 2019)

Does your pasture look like this? 






If it does, how much money and machinery did you have to use to get it that way?   Regenerative farming practices and managed grazing produced this...no plowing, no planting of seed, no fertilizing, no liming, etc.


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## Beekissed (Oct 19, 2019)

We got our heads together yesterday and decided to get a forestry guy in here to give us advice on our trees and their value, who best to get to harvest them for us.   We have some really massive pines here that are constantly getting blown down in big storms...when one of those uproot it leaves a huge divet and root ball, as well as a ton of tree and mess in its path.  

We want to remove all those pines from our meadow and woodlots as they are doing nothing good for our soils and we'd like to get out of doing it ourselves, so are thinking of selling those and a few veneer quality oak and a single huge cedar as well.   All trees that are not working for us, but against us, and can give us a bit of cash to build fencing, roofing for pole sheds, etc. 

Will be contacting the local ag service about who to get to evaluate these trees for us.  We'd like to get in a logging company that puts very little impact on the land and will clean up their messes as they go....would really love it if they would chip the limbs and blow it back onto the land.  That gets rid of a lot of brush piles...we have plenty of those already.  

If we can get those big trees out of here, the smaller and trashier trees we can slowly weed out on our own and use them for firewood if they are big enough.  We have a LOT of good oak on this acreage that's coming along and really big also that we'll leave in place, but those few gigantic oak are ripe for harvest before disease or pests can take them out and render them worthless for selling.


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## Baymule (Oct 19, 2019)

For a few very short months in early spring , I can have lush green pasture. It’s the rest of the year I’m working on. I can easily establish clovers and fescue, but it goes away when the heat hits. 




 



 

Most hay here is Bermuda and there is no Bermuda seed in it. I paid $289 for 25 pounds of giant Bermuda and have two small pastures that now has giant Bermuda established. I conditioned the soil with Cornish Cross raised in a chicken tractor. I spread sheep hay for the humus. Come spring, I will sow Bahia seed, cost over $350 for 50 pounds of seed. Twice I bought Bahia hay and spread it on the pipeline and got not one seed to come up. So I will suck it up and buy the seed. In the meantime, this winter we will be working on preparing the soil for planting.


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## Beekissed (Oct 19, 2019)

I wonder if you'd strip graze that beautiful pasture if you'd get more bang for your buck and also lay down some carbon on the soil to sequester your water so your pasture would better survive the heat.  Plus, it could very well encourage your native warm season grasses to come up and sustain you through those hot seasons.   Would be worth trying!


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## Beekissed (Oct 19, 2019)




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## AmberLops (Oct 19, 2019)

Baymule said:


> At $65 a roll, i'm afraid I can't roll it out to let the horses poop all over it.


That seems like a lot! Round bales out here go for $25 but when I lived in Maine, round bales were over $100 each


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## Baymule (Oct 20, 2019)

Most of the native grasses won't stand up to hard grazing and need a longer rest period than what I can give it. Bermuda and Bahia are tough grasses that form a dense sod, grow back quickly-if there is enough rain- and can take the heat.


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## Baymule (Oct 21, 2019)

We did a pasture walk yesterday and clover is popping up in Pasture #1,2, the pipeline and our yard. I sowed clover 2 years ago and it is not only coming back, it is spreading.  We also dug out the dead sheep hay where the round bale fits under the roof and spread it on pasture #1 in bare areas. The log piles we made and the piles of branches we did are now covered in a foot or two of hay and sheep poop that I had piled up to compost. We still have to move the rest of the hay/poop pile, will take it to the newly cleared/mulched horse pasture and start spreading it there. 

The round bales we buy are second cut, but still have a little clover and rye grass in them. 

I missed sowing crimson clover and rye grass seed in pasture #3 (the small side pasture we cleared this summer) yesterday evening, right before a hard rain which would have beaten the seed into the dirt. We had company stop by, I was canning chicken broth and just ran out of daylight before I ran out of want to do...… Supposed to be a good chance of rain Thursday and Friday, so need to get the seed sowed. I sowed giant Bermuda there in the spring and watered it through the drought. Have never sowed winter grass there, as it was all green briar and saplings. 

We need to run cow panels behind the sheep barn, giving them a little of this pasture for the room to move around. going to expand the sheep lot in front of the barn too.  I love cow panels. they allow me to build pens, move them, take them down, see what works and what doesn't.


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## Beekissed (Oct 21, 2019)

I love CPs too!   So versatile and sturdy.  Sounds like you are getting a good start on some pasture, Bay....that must feel so very good!   Are the grasses and such you've planted native to your area?  Those pics of the sheep in chest high clover were just lovely to see! 

I've been traipsing our woods, picking out things that need cut out, planning where the fencing should go, etc.   Pasture on the mind all the time now....weird, but now all I see is potential for pasture.  This all started out as getting some renewable lawn mowers and has bounced into establishing a little farmette.  Never dreamed of such a thing on this land.


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## Baymule (Oct 21, 2019)

Bahia is native to South America, it was brought to the USA in 1914 because it withstands heat and hard grazing. 

Bermuda grass originates from Africa and India. It is called Bermuda here because it came to us by way of Bermuda. It was established in the USA prior to 1807. 

So no, they are not native in the true sense of the word. True native grasses must have a long rest period. We only have 8 acres split between 4 horses (moneypit) 10 ewes, 1 ram and assorted lambs. I don't have 60-90 days to leave a pasture empty. I will pen them up now to let the winter grass/clovers grow. So they will eat hay, the dead hay gets spread to replenish the soil, and so the cycle goes. 

We will be working on the horse pasture this winter, I am excited to have more pasture space!


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## Beekissed (Oct 21, 2019)




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## Beekissed (Oct 21, 2019)




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## Baymule (Oct 21, 2019)

I walked pasture #2 this morning. I found tiny filament strands of fescue coming up. This pic is from the front of the pasture where it is pretty heavily wooded. Little emerald dots are clover. 




 

I’m pleased to see the fescue coming up here. Bee, you mentioned laying down a layer of carbon. If you will notice, there is a layer of wood chips we spread for carbon, humus and to retain water and protect grass roots from the scorching heat. A few years ago, we allowed a power line cleaning crew to park their trucks on our place at night. In return for having a protected place to leave their equipment, they brought us 120+ loads of wood chips.  I’m already there on building the soil with everything I can get my grubby hands on. LOL 

Amazingly, under a huge cedar and pine, in the yard where I didn’t sow seed, is the emerald dots of clover. Hooray for wandering sheep who carry seeds in capsulated fertilizer bombs. 



 

Just to give you an idea of what I have to work with, here is a pic of my soil. 



 

Pure sand. We have worked hard to get to where we are now. This land was once part of a farm owned by a neighbor’s father. Their house once sat in pasture #2, they moved to a better home around the corner when neighbor was 6 years old. The land laid fallow for probably the last 40 years judging by the trees, maybe longer. There are some trees here that look to be older.  The land was divided between heirs, most of whom sold to a developer. The developer cut it into parcels, slapped double wides on them and sold them. 

When we bought this place in 2014, it was a repo that sat empty for 2 years. The land was covered in trees, brush, briar vines, lambs quarters, ragweed, goat weed, VERY little, if any grass. The previous owners did little, if anything to improve the place. So my seed bank is weeds. I have a 100 year supply of weeds. LOL 

Greg Judy said in an article that he spent a lot of time and money plowing up his endophyte infected fescue and other native grasses to replant with expensive “new” grass seed. He proudly gave a pasture walk and was dismayed when one of the farmers took him aside and told him that his beautiful new pasture would revert back to the original grasses in 5 years. And it did. So he learned to work with what he had and to improve on it. 

My point is that I don’t have any pasture to start with. I have no grasses, native or otherwise. I have quite a variety of weeds, as long as the sheep like them, weeds are ok with me. But those weeds are not enough. Rolling out round bales to seed the pastures and see what grows, won’t work, and would be prohibitively expensive. Using the uneaten, trampled hay may take longer to improve the soil, but that I can do. 

We spent hundreds on 3 different types of clovers and Kentucky 32 non endophyte fescue 3 years ago. One type of clover did not return, the other two did and are slowly spreading over the property. The fescue is doing the same. Even after the sheep graze it hard, when it dies back, we mow it and it leaves a thick layer that adds to the soil. 

I’m building my own seed bank with varieties that will do well here. Yes, I have to suck it up and buy the seed. I have studied, read, researched and read some more to select what I think and hope will grow and thrive with what I have to work with. It’s a continuing journey. It will be fun and informative for us to bounce ideas off each other, compare our methods, climate, weeds, grasses, what works and what doesn’t.


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## Beekissed (Oct 22, 2019)

https://www.wormx.info/browseplants



> Using a mixed sward of grasses and legumes or legume (high protein) swards; using forage plants containing condensed tannins; and/or allowing access to browse plants can help in control of GI parasites in grazing goats and sheep.  Additional benefits can include improved protein availability (and probably minerals) for support of the immune system and improved nutrient-use efficiency (especially protein) in livestock.


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## Baymule (Oct 22, 2019)

I have that site saved and have studied it. I believe a good mix of plants, grasses and weeds make for a healthy pasture. I have  a patch of sida rhombifolia, it is anthelmintic, deep rooted and they love the stuff. I didn't have to plant it, it was already growing here. I also have a small patch of chicory, they love that too. Acorns have tannins and the sheep hoover up every one they find.


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## Beekissed (Oct 28, 2019)

Best video on intensive, regenerative grazing ever...3 hrs long and answers so many questions!


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## Beekissed (Oct 28, 2019)

In this video he talks about parasite resistance/tolerance? and also, surprisingly enough, talks about how he doesn't water his sheep out on pasture in the winter months..and even his LGDs, which few would admit.   I too have found they consume minimal water in the winter if they have access to good pasture but have never heard anyone discuss this elsewhere.  I guess not many folks are keeping sheep out on graze all winter, without hay supplementation.   That is my goal, however, with this new venture in sheep...I eventually want to be feeding no hay at all, unless it's in the pens if they are confined for some odd reason for any length of time.


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## Beekissed (Oct 31, 2019)

The before and after pics of these grasslands is nothing short of miraculous...and they increases stocking density triple what they were grazing!!!


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## Baymule (Nov 10, 2019)

Remember the logs we laid out to rot? We covered them with spent Sheep hay. Here they are now. 









This picture is in pasture #2 and shows a good mix of winter grasses and weeds. There is rye grass, clovers, fescue, poor joe and lambs quarters


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## Beekissed (Nov 10, 2019)

@Baymule , that is so cool!!!    I can't WAIT to see results like that in the hay I've spread out, though mine doesn't have all that good sheep poo on it yet, so I may not get as quick results.


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## Sheepshape (Nov 11, 2019)

That 're-greening' is coming on well, Baymule. It should continue to improve over time.

We rely mainly on natural fertilisers, with the pasture seeming to be improving without having the 'monoculture' fields of some of our neighbours caused by too much reliance on fertiliser use and  the replanting with only one or two grass seed types. Emerald green, yes, but featureless and boring! Our 'weedy' fields look a lot more interesting.

As we have one or two seriously boggy and poorly aerated areas, there's an annual 'weed wipe' of those areas with a nasty chemical killer which selectively takes reeds/rushes out. I'm not too happy with using such things, but we were being seriously overgrown with an anaerobic bog. I've left one anaerobic bog to allow that wildlife which thrives there to still have a place. It is around our mini-lake and has large tufted grasses in which we get the odd curlew nest....stock excluded!

With climate changing we will, no doubt, have to get used to different types of pasture. However, that doesn't mean that we won't be able to have good healthy fields.


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## Beekissed (Nov 11, 2019)

> "Look at the spider. My gosh she's FAT.  Just look at the FAT.  She'll breed back."



Had to LOL at one of the comments to this video....this is EXACTLY how Mr. Judy sounds on most of his vids when talking about his cattle.   He's so enthusiastic about what he does that it's contagious and makes me want to go out there and build some spider habitat.


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## Beekissed (Nov 11, 2019)

Here's one of the weirdest new trends in farming I've seen of late and I can't even imagine how they think this will be sustainable in a crisis or how this will affect the cattle down the road.   This is sort of like raising meat chickens in an industrial farm setting wherein they never live a normal life out under the sun, but it's cattle.  Weird.


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## Beekissed (Nov 11, 2019)

Baymule said:


> prohibitively expensive. Using the uneaten, trampled hay may take longer to improve the soil, but that I can do.
> 
> We spent hundreds on 3 different types of clovers and Kentucky 32 non endophyte fescue 3 years ago.



Was wondering, Bay, if the hundreds you spent on seed could be used to buy round bales to roll out instead?   The rolled out hay contains the seed and also the mulch that could start you a soil layer you need on top of that sand.   If there is no soil, sowing seed in sand isn't going to yield much, surely?   

I'd do an experiment and roll out your hay, a bit at a time, mind you, as you feed your stock, instead of feeding it in stock rings.  It's out in the weather anyway, so why not turn it on its side and just roll out fresh hay each day instead of letting them eat holes in it until it's gone?  There's going to be waste either way, but at least that way the waste, manure and trampling are being moved a little each day and you are getting  more bang from your buck and letting the animals move your waste hay instead of you having to do it.  

That's how I'll be doing it here in the future for winter feeding....just drop my bales in the paddocks I'm going to be rolling them in, tarp them until used and roll them into a new paddock as I move the wire along.   Keeps the weathered hay on the bottom of the strip, which they wouldn't eat anyway, and the fresh hay exposed daily.  With the polybraid up, they won't be able to eat on the bale itself but only on the strip of hay I left in their current paddock.   

Works well if you have level ground but I'll have to do some creative rolling on the steeper areas, like rolling across the slope instead of down.


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## Baymule (Nov 11, 2019)

I'll stick to what I am doing. The hay gets eaten, the waste goes to good use. The seeds in the hay are rye and some clovers. It is mainly Bermuda hay and it is not in seed when cut, so there isn't much in the way of seed to work it's magic on the seed bank.  I am building my own seed bank of the grasses and weeds I desire. I know the rye won't reseed well if at all, but it is not expensive and provides good winter/early spring grazing. If I buy seed once a year to spread, as it builds up, I can rotate the species of grass until I get a good seed bank going. The fescue will reseed and come back, plus nobody here bales fescue, so I have to guy the seed. Much of the clovers have reseeded and come back, also the chicory. I will be making weed pastures with cow panels this coming year so the sheep don't eat it all up so that the desirable weeds and grasses can't reseed. They love the poor joe, lambs quarters, vetch and ragweed! Just look at the diversity in the pictures I posted, that was at zero level not too long ago!


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## Beekissed (Nov 11, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Just look at the diversity in the pictures I posted, that was at zero level not too long ago!



Yes!  And many folks are getting that without rolling out bales at all, just by running stock into silvopasture and feeding them there, which results in more of the native species getting to express themselves due to the fertilizer from the animals and the sunlight from thinning the trees.    

That's what I'm going to have to do in my silvopasture as well, as there's simply no WAY to roll out a bale in these woods.   We aren't clear cutting but selective timbering, so will still have LOTS of trees in the pasture....can't roll out one of those big bales in something like that.


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## frustratedearthmother (Nov 11, 2019)

I don't know about ya'lls round bales - but there's no way that they could be rolled out without using a tractor to move them.  A 1000-1200 lb bale of hay is hard to move by hand!


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## Baymule (Nov 11, 2019)

The ones we buy are 5 1/2 feet tall and 4 feet wide. They are big and heavy. Not going to unroll them by hand without busting a hernia. LOL LOL


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## Baymule (Nov 11, 2019)

My bale in the horse ring is working. No need to roll it out, they waste, pee and poop on the hay quite a bit as it is. Every time we get a new bale, we move the hay ring. 






Then the horses stand in their favorite shady place and poop. Here’s Joe, full belly, relaxing and pooping. He’s a bit thin, he is 30 years old, has Cushings disease, has good days and not so good days.


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## Beekissed (Nov 11, 2019)

Baymule said:


> The ones we buy are 5 1/2 feet tall and 4 feet wide. They are big and heavy. Not going to unroll them by hand without busting a hernia. LOL LOL



Uh....we buy the same kind/size and I roll them.      I even roll them sopping wet and half rotten, with a flat bottom from sitting a long time and rotting in place.   I struggle sometimes to swing them around to roll them in another direction or to roll them uphill, but haven't gotten a hernia yet.   And I already have herniated discs.  

Some folks hammer a fiberglass rod through the middle, hook logging chains to them and pull them with a 4 wheeler or truck.


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## Beekissed (Nov 11, 2019)

Baymule said:


> My bale in the horse ring is working. No need to roll it out, they waste, pee and poop on the hay quite a bit as it is. Every time we get a new bale, we move the hay ring.
> 
> View attachment 67404
> 
> ...



That's a nice, good scattering of hay!  How long does it take for them to go through a bale normally?


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## Baymule (Nov 11, 2019)

It usually takes a couple of weeks for them to go through a round bale.


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## frustratedearthmother (Nov 11, 2019)

Beekissed said:


> Uh....we buy the same kind/size and I roll them


 


There can be a huge weight difference even in bales that are the same size.  I have had bales that were rolled so loosely that a slight wind can blow them apart....and others that are rolled so tightly that I can't even pull hay off of them by hand.  Those bales can't be rolled by hand.


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## Baymule (Nov 11, 2019)

It is easier to let the horses toss hay! LOL LOL

I have looked for old hay bales since we moved here. Hay SELLS!


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## Beekissed (Nov 11, 2019)

Baymule said:


> It is easier to let the horses toss hay! LOL LOL
> 
> I have looked for old hay bales since we moved here. Hay SELLS!



Yep, even the old, mulch hay is selling right now.   That's how I know it was the hand of God for me to get 15 large round bales for free this past year.   Turns out, that old rotten mulch hay is a better quality than what I bought for feed this year....I know who I'll buy round bales off of next year. 

These three found part of one in the garden and started eating it like it was their last meal....


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## Baymule (Nov 11, 2019)

They are telling you that is some good stuff! LOL LOL


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## Beekissed (Dec 5, 2019)




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## Beekissed (Dec 5, 2019)




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## Beekissed (Jan 2, 2020)

After a lot of rain and unseasonably warm temps this winter, I'm starting to see grass growing through the hay I rolled out on areas where mostly moss usually grows.   At this time of the year, nothing usually shows any growth there as the moss goes dormant.....but right now I see a faint haze of green showing through the gold/buff color of the hay on the ground.   Very exciting!!!  

Not a seed planted but what was in the hay, nor any lime spread to kill the moss and turn the soil less acidic.   Just old hay!  

I moved a bit of the hay to one side to see these fragile green shoots of grass and they are already 3 in. long!   They'll likely get frosted but at least I know they are establishing some roots under there and will recover in the spring.  

Will definitely be scouring the ads for more mulch hay in the spring to roll out on the land, particularly in places where we have timbered and no grass at all currently exists.  What an easy way to get better grass with very little money or effort involved!


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## Baymule (Jan 2, 2020)

We have about a foot of loose hay in the sheep barn. We are going to rake it up, spread it in the horse pasture, then dig out the barn to spread the manure/compost in the garden. Then rebed with leaves and start the process all over. 

We have a half round bale that got wet, on the back of the Kawasaki mule that we are going to lay out on the pipeline where we now put the horses round bales. Then they can poop all over it and stomp it into the ground. Where we have moved their hay bales, leaving the dropped hay behind, is sprouting a green sheen, but I think it is mostly rye grass, it won't last over the spring/summer. 

Congrats on the new sprouting grass, Bee. It takes time to grow good pasture, patience and work pays off. It may not sound like much to other people, but here on BYH, we know the value of good soil and new grass. You gotta love a place like this where you can find people with the same affliction as yours. LOL LOL

 On our new pasture on the side, between the house and the sheep barn, the rye grass is lush, green and beautiful. I got giant Bermuda established there last summer, I can't wait to see how it comes back in the spring. I am saving this pasture until the grass is tall, then I'll only let the sheep at it for 1 hour at a time, keeping baking soda out, to prevent bloat.


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## Beekissed (Jan 2, 2020)

Bay, I can't wait to see your pics of all that hay sprouting in the spring!   That's the one thing lacking with this hay of mine that's sprouting and that's the hoof action and the addition of poop and pee.   Can't wait to get fencing up so I can move them out there and get some poop where it matters most.


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## Baymule (Jan 2, 2020)

It won't stay sprouted for long, the horses hooves are keeping it pretty well plowed up. We are going to have to put up new fence around the barn to keep them off the grass in the horse pasture (when we plant it and it comes up) but still give them access to their barn. They love their barn, especially Joe. At 30 years old, with Cushings disease, Joe truly loves his barn. I used to promise him a barn, a REAL barn, not the neighbor's, who let us run the horses on his 20 acres at our old place, but his very OWN BARN. I am glad that I was able to keep that promise to him. I hope he lives long enough to finally graze in his OWN pasture, in deep lush grass. I take him out and put him in the yard and in the sheep pasture, but I want him to have unlimited graze, all he wants. That's his eye in my avatar. I love my boy!


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## Beekissed (Jan 2, 2020)

I love his name!  That's one of my all time favorite names in the world.   Don't know why.  Got a deer mount in the cabin named Joe and just sold a ram named Joe.  

I love it when they go out in a fresh stand of new grass and just roll.  Such joy in that action.   Sort of like dogs in fresh snow.  When I think of all the house dogs that never get to enjoy snow to its fullest, makes me kind of sad.


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## Baymule (Jan 3, 2020)

His registered name is Joe's Tuff Bars, he's a big guy with white hair and blue eyes. My husband's middle name is Joe, he's a big guy with white hair and blue eyes. LOL


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## Beekissed (Jan 11, 2020)

Got a few pics of one area where I rolled out mulch round bales.   With all the rain and warm weather we've had this winter that hay really mulched down and then started sprouting new grass where normally only moss grows.   

These pics show where the hay ends and the brown winter dormant moss begins....it's amazing to see that grass there, as moss has been there since we bought the land in the late 70s.   No fertilizer, no lime....just hay.   

Now, if anyone knows anything about moss, it's hard to kill unless you change the pH of the soil and it really needs to be changed year after year or the soil just seems to go back to an acid level and the moss grows again.    I've tried applications of pelleted lime, powdered lime, fertilizer, clover seed, you name it....never got results like this yet.  

I'll be watching this transition to see if, with intensive grazing, the soil will truly change after this season of hay and then grazing over it, or will it go back to moss by next winter.  

In these pics you can see where the moss ends and the hay begins...












And pics of the baby fine grass growing in the hay where grass of that kind has never grown before....


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## Baymule (Jan 12, 2020)

That is looking great Bee!


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## thistlebloom (Jan 12, 2020)

Your land is lovely Bee. Glad the hay bales are working out so well for you!


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## Baymule (Jan 29, 2020)

Haha Bee I got eye candy for you! It’s not many people who could appreciate this lovely view, but I know you would! LOL LOL 

It’s been drizzling, a dreary day. I went walking and took some pictures of dead ground in, stomped on hay, covered with horse manure. Feast your eyes! LOL 





Here’s another!! Be still oh my heart!!





Just when you think it couldn’t get any better, it does! Yup! I got yet another sh!tty picture for you! Oh swoon with all the excitement!!!


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## Beekissed (Jan 29, 2020)

Bay, that's some concentrated fertilizer!!!!  I can't WAIT to see what comes up there in the spring.   And, yes, I have quite the poop envy going on and keep wishing all my sheep's poo was out on the land where it belongs, put there by the manufacturers. 

Horse poop scattered like that is pretty much like sheep poop....mild and ready for use.   It would be interesting to take a look under that hay and poop here in a month to see what bug and worm life you have going on under there.   

Was copicing autumn olive and multiflora rose in B paddock area today in hopes to see some new growth from the stumps of these overgrown shrubs by the time the sheep get there in the spring.   Several more to copice in there, but they are so large I'll have to fire up the chainsaw to get them down.  

I was tickled to find so many of these on the land....I had thought the majority of them were across our property line but we have a goodly amount on our side.   Was thanking God for them, where we used to think of them as a huge nuisance that needed eradicated. 

Wish I had a chipper on hand already, as I'd put these branches in the chipper and put all that back on the land.   We'll be buying one this spring to help us clean up tree tops left by the timbering and will save some to place in paths and such, but a lot of it will go back onto the land.


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## Beekissed (Feb 11, 2020)

Phase one of creating silvopasture has been contracted...found the right timber guy, who not only will remove all the pines and larger hardwoods, but is also going to thin our woodlots of trash wood that is good for the chip market.    We had planned on thinning those trees out over the years, a little at a time, to open up the forest floor and canopy above, but this will put us way ahead on that plan while also utilizing those trees for extra start up income for the MIG. 

Looking at two solid weeks of rain and lots of it, so they likely won't start until we get a break in the weather....if we do...but I'm so very excited to see how this develops the woodlots and the silvopasture capabilities therein.   We are going to go through each lot with him and he's going to help us identify the trees and we'll measure the spacing~hoping to get 15-20 ft spacing on all trees if possible, so we can keep plenty of oak, beech, maple, hickory and walnut, if any.   I'd also like to keep smaller cherry trees, which most discount in silvopasture as being not food worthy, but my chickens LOVE the cherries and so do all the other birds.  

Also got a quote on getting fencing put in....just in materials alone this guy quoted $6300, which is WAY too rich for our blood, so we will be doing it ourselves.  Just how you eat an elephant...one bite at a time.   Going to sink corner posts and set gates in the nearest paddock then order the Timeless Tposts and start running wire until we get at least one paddock set up so we can get the sheep out on clean soils for lambing.  

And, so it begins....and I'm so excited I could dance, but I won't because even in private it's an embarrassing thing to watch.   Sort of like a manatee having a full body spasm.  Not pretty.


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## thistlebloom (Feb 11, 2020)

It's great to see progress! You have such a nice variety of tree species there. We have pines, and... pines. Well, some Grand fir and doug fir mixed in, but essentially all conifers.
Fencing is very expensive. Several neighbors have fenced their acreage in and helped each other with tractors and equipment. I know they'd help us also, but first thing would be clearing trees, and that is pretty monumental in time and labor.
It will be nice to see how your plan for your land unfolds.


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## Beekissed (Feb 11, 2020)

thistlebloom said:


> It's great to see progress! You have such a nice variety of tree species there. We have pines, and... pines. Well, some Grand fir and doug fir mixed in, but essentially all conifers.
> Fencing is very expensive. Several neighbors have fenced their acreage in and helped each other with tractors and equipment. I know they'd help us also, but first thing would be clearing trees, and that is pretty monumental in time and labor.
> It will be nice to see how your plan for your land unfolds.



We have TOO much pine...and not the pretty stuff, but ugly and tall, that uproot easily and shove huge root balls into the air, block roads and paths, and~from what they are saying~are basically worthless on the market right now.   There are portions of this land that looks like a huge game of pick up sticks from all the pines that have went down in storms.  They damage better hardwoods when they go down, so we are delighted to have them plucked out of the woodlots for good.   

Now, because I do love diversity on the land, I'll likely be adding some species of pine right back on to the land in years to come....just not the type we have now and not where they are currently growing.   Since I'll be grazing all year round, a little group of evergreens, interspersed with autumn olive shrubs, situated in places to block the wind, provide shelter from the snow and rain, etc. will not go amiss here~some MIG farmers are using scrub cedars as living barns for their cattle and sheep.   If planted where I want, they can provide wind blocking, privacy from the neighboring properties and shelter for wildlife.   

I'll also be transplanting some smaller saplings from one area on the land to other areas so as to place shade in spots throughout each paddock so the sheep don't have far to walk to hit a shady spot.   This will also allow me to sort of design how our place looks, especially in the fall.   I love the way that beech and maple look with a backdrop of evergreens in the fall, so I'll be able to place these trees in such a way as to, not only be functional for shelter and shade, but also for aesthetically pleasing vistas.   I'd like to frame the house in color but without obstructing our views too much.


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## Baymule (Feb 12, 2020)

Fencing is expensive. We fenced a pasture for the horses first and the back yard for Paris. This had to be done before we moved. Then we really dug in. We just had to do a little at  a time, gradually building pastures. You will get it done, time and money.


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## Beekissed (Feb 12, 2020)

Baymule said:


> Fencing is expensive. We fenced a pasture for the horses first and the back yard for Paris. This had to be done before we moved. Then we really dug in. We just had to do a little at  a time, gradually building pastures. You will get it done, time and money.



Hill country here, so lots of ups and downs, dips and gaps to span, as well as a lot of fence line to cut free of brush, briers, etc.   Will take some time, but timbering sure helps!


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## Baymule (Feb 13, 2020)

Are you going to use the sheep and goat wire (4" holes)? We don't have the ups and downs that you do, pretty light grade, but we sure had to cut out lots of trees, brush and briars. It's slow going, but what an accomplishment when you put up a run of wire! Take lots of pictures, what about starting a fencing thread? It sure makes me feel good when I go back and read my fencing thread, I can see where we started and the work we put in along the way.


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## Beekissed (Feb 13, 2020)

Baymule said:


> Are you going to use the sheep and goat wire (4" holes)? We don't have the ups and downs that you do, pretty light grade, but we sure had to cut out lots of trees, brush and briars. It's slow going, but what an accomplishment when you put up a run of wire! Take lots of pictures, what about starting a fencing thread? It sure makes me feel good when I go back and read my fencing thread, I can see where we started and the work we put in along the way.



Doing high tensile, 3 strands, so the gaps and dips have to be secured so the posts won't be pulled out of the ground under all that tension.


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## LMK17 (Feb 13, 2020)

Been following along here and there but haven’t waded into all the amazing videos and articles yet.  I’d love to jump into this conversation if ya’ll don’t mind!  

We’ve been on our place for going on 3 years.  Prior to that, I had a little suburban yard on which I planted for wildlife habitat, a small collection of fruit trees, some ornamentals, and garden beds— All organically managed and pretty successful, all things considered.  Our current place is 20 acres total, about 15 in pasture, 4 of woodlot, and the 1 acre yard, on which we also have a small orchard and garden.  The garden is mostly a nicely fenced weed bed right now, since the animals and children seem to take up all my time, and I rarely get around to tending the garden! On the pasture and woods, we currently have 4 head of cattle, 9 boer goats, and 2 horses.  We also have a single beehive, and we have guineas who help with breaking up manure & pest management.  Occasionally, we let our two Kunekune hogs into the pasture.  Our turkeys and chickens occasionally venture into the pasture, but they mostly hang out in the yard.  We have one mobile chicken coop that gets moved around the orchard for fertilizer & pest control.  The big stationary chicken coop is situated near the barn to encourage the birds to visit the barnyard and pick through manure dropped there.  Generally speaking, it all works pretty well, and I love having our own little ecosystem here offsetting the need for synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, and such!  We are not fully organic, as we judiciously use chemical dewormers and antibiotics/meds on the animals when needed, but we don’t spray at all, nor have we used synthetic fertilizers.

The folks here before us also managed the place holistically, which was a major factor in our choosing to buy this farm.  They also installed a pasture irrigation system and left some reels of poly wire and such to get us going with a rotational grazing system.  We were pretty much able to pick up right where they left off, and we’re slowly incorporating new animals/infrastructure/methods that work for us.  😍 

I know I’m not the only Texan on this thread- One question I have for you all is, what do you do about shade when you’re rotating your animals in the heat of the summer?  I struggle with this!  Most of our pasture is pretty open.  We have a few scattered trees here and there and no permanent structures other than the barn.  With only 20 acres & the limited number of animals we have, we really need to make each paddock quite small in order to get the full benefit of MIRG, but without shade throughout the pasture, I can‘t quite figure out how to do this.  I usually end up just advancing the front wire a bit every couple days but not blocking access to the shade in the paddocks behind the animals so that they can retreat there when it gets so hot.  As a result, they do get fresh grass, but I worry that the plants in the “shady” paddocks will get overgrazed since they have continuous access to those for a week or longer, until we reach the next area of shade.  Thoughts?

My second concern is irrigation.  We have a very nice (albeit labor-intensive) system of moveable sprinklers throughout the pasture.  I *could* water every day of the week if I had the druthers to do it. However, I want to balance the ability to water with holding off on watering in order to allow more drought-tolerant grasses to become fully established.  I‘m concerned that if I water constantly, I’ll swing the pendulum in favor of the more fragile, thirsty plants out there.  Any ideas how to balance this in order to keep the desired grasses growing without favoring the needier species?


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## Beekissed (Feb 13, 2020)

LMK17 said:


> Been following along here and there but haven’t waded into all the amazing videos and articles yet.  I’d love to jump into this conversation if ya’ll don’t mind!
> 
> We’ve been on our place for going on 3 years.  Prior to that, I had a little suburban yard on which I planted for wildlife habitat, a small collection of fruit trees, some ornamentals, and garden beds— All organically managed and pretty successful, all things considered.  Our current place is 20 acres total, about 15 in pasture, 4 of woodlot, and the 1 acre yard, on which we also have a small orchard and garden.  The garden is mostly a nicely fenced weed bed right now, since the animals and children seem to take up all my time, and I rarely get around to tending the garden! On the pasture and woods, we currently have 4 head of cattle, 9 boer goats, and 2 horses.  We also have a single beehive, and we have guineas who help with breaking up manure & pest management.  Occasionally, we let our two Kunekune hogs into the pasture.  Our turkeys and chickens occasionally venture into the pasture, but they mostly hang out in the yard.  We have one mobile chicken coop that gets moved around the orchard for fertilizer & pest control.  The big stationary chicken coop is situated near the barn to encourage the birds to visit the barnyard and pick through manure dropped there.  Generally speaking, it all works pretty well, and I love having our own little ecosystem here offsetting the need for synthetic fertilizers, pesticides, and such!  We are not fully organic, as we judiciously use chemical dewormers and antibiotics/meds on the animals when needed, but we don’t spray at all, nor have we used synthetic fertilizers.
> 
> ...



Since you need shade now but also down the road, you might look into things that grow well in your area that are fast growing shrubs and brush that can be utilized while something more long term can be created.  

Here's a cool site you may be able to utilize for creating shade/silvopasture:  https://centraltexastreecare.com/2010/05/12/how-agroforestry-works-for-everyone/

And a few more:  https://matteroftrust.org/the-secrets-of-silvopasturing/






						Landscaping – Texas A&M Agrilife Extension Service
					






					agrilifeextension.tamu.edu
				




I think that most folks doing MIG are not much in favor of watering, as many are living in more brittle landscapes.   They are depending on the trampling of the grasses to create thatch and build soil to help keep moisture on the land so it doesn't need watering during drought times.   I'd read or watch info from Alan Savory on that, as he's doing MIG practices in Africa, where they go many months without much rain. 

Here's another handy site I'm loving...some of these have the capacity to provide shade while also giving good feed value:   https://www.wormx.info/browseplants


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## Baymule (Feb 13, 2020)

@LMK 17 you can use cow panels bowed over and secured by T-posts, with a tarp over them. Put pallets on the sides to help keep the rain out, the slats will allow any breeze to blow through. 2 cow panels put together should make a nice shelter. You can spot them around, they are cheap and easy to put up.


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## Beekissed (Feb 18, 2020)

Phase one of silvopasture has begun...timbering has started on the land.  It's startling to see and I have to keep reminding myself what it will look like in the future....keep visualizing grass under trees, with a peaceful flock of colorful sheep grazing along.  

Going to take a LONG time to clean up all the tree tops and mess, though.  Will likely buy or borrow a chipper and cut up all I can into firewood, then chip the rest of the limbs.   I'll also build some brush piles for the wildlife.  Sure wish I had a market for ****ake mushrooms around here as I would do some mushroom planting on some of the wood from the tree tops.  

I've tried to keep as many trees as possible along a tiny little spring/rivulet in the front of the land as it feeds our well when it goes underground.  Later on I'll try to plant some willow, white mulberry and/or clumping bamboo in that area to keep that shaded and the soils anchored as much as possible.   I'll likely dig small tanks along the course of it as well, so as to slow the water down when we have rains like we have been....I noticed quite a bit of surface erosion simply because no vegetation grows there.   Doing MIG around that should help with the erosion.  

And so it begins.....


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## Baymule (Feb 18, 2020)

That is so exciting!! I am so happy for you, it will be work and take time, but you certainly are no stranger to that! Are you taking pictures??


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## Beekissed (Feb 18, 2020)

Baymule said:


> That is so exciting!! I am so happy for you, it will be work and take time, but you certainly are no stranger to that! Are you taking pictures??



Like a crazy woman.    Both to document what it looks like before and after but also to document what it should return to if they do their jobs right, as far as the road and recovery of landing site goes.  

Already having issues with communication....I've found out in my lifetime that men seem to have a special selective hearing loss when talking with women.   I say one thing, they either don't hear it at all or they hear something completely different.  Now, I know I don't mumble or stutter, so I've found it's best to get things in writing....and this guy started work here before we even hashed out and signed a contract!  Had to cool his jets and get him to understand a contract was and is expected.  Who doesn't get a contract nowadays????  He was supposed to come and bring the contract this afternoon but didn't show up, so despite him having all this high dollar equipment on the land, not another splinter will be cut here without that contract being discussed, developed and signed.  

Seems like everything a person does nowadays requires such a struggle...why can't folks just do right?


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## YourRabbitGirl (Feb 19, 2020)

Beekissed said:


> ....anyone doing it?
> 
> Through the Lord's leading, I had started some of these methods over the years and even here recently (found, by God's design, how much seed and fertilizer there is in mulch hay and started scavenging for it to spread on this nutrient poor soil)without having knowledge that others had come to the same conclusion but in other ways, but am pleased to find out others have found the same methods and are implementing them to improve pasture and soil health.
> 
> ...


I will squeeze time for me to check on the information about this, I will check on the details on the forums. I will get back to the forums for the details. thanks


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## Baymule (Feb 19, 2020)

You just reminded me of an incident when we owned a large furniture store. I was dressed in blue jeans, T-shirt. tennis shoes-not at all like an "owner", when an 18 wheeler backed up to the loading dock, the driver got out and came straight to me. I asked him how he knew I was the owner and he told me, "Because you are the one with authority." 

So Bee, pull out your ATHORITY and take charge. I worked around men most all my life. It seems if you assert yourself and demand respect, that makes you a super b!tch. I'm fine with that and I claim my title proudly. By golly, I will be respected. Grab that guy by the short hairs, shake the snot out of him and make him listen. This is YOUR land.

One of the worst screaming fits BJ ever saw spew forth from me was at a logger who cut some trees I specifically told him NOT to cut. BJ wisely stood back and didn't say a word. LOL LOL I called that man names he had never heard and I never said a cuss word. He was dang near crying, he sure was looking for somewhere to go, but there was no escape from my wrath.


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## Beekissed (Feb 19, 2020)

Baymule said:


> One of the worst screaming fits BJ ever saw spew forth from me was at a logger who cut some trees I specifically told him NOT to cut. BJ wisely stood back and didn't say a word. LOL LOL I called that man names he had never heard and I never said a cuss word. He was dang near crying, he sure was looking for somewhere to go, but there was no escape from my wrath.



That made me laugh!    My boys always say I have the nicest way of telling folks they are an idiot that they've ever seen and the people go away feeling like they've been complimented.   I also have the most calm way of being menacing that has had grown men in tears and other men trying to comfort them.   I'm told I am intimidating but I've never intentionally set out to be, just me being me, as calmly and coolly as I can while standing up for myself and others.  

No worries.   All of this is in the hands of God and I'm counting on HIM to do all the hard work of this, as this is all His land anyway.   I'm just along for the ride and I get to watch Him work, which is always amazing!  I've found that the things people do to us that they mean for evil, He turns them to our good, as we do love Him more than anyone or thing.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Apr 3, 2020)

secuono said:


> I hate watching videos. I want the information now, not 20min later peppered through a rambling video.
> Anyone have text to read on what this is all about?


Holistic management is a comprehensive system of farm planning that allows farmers, ranchers and land managers to better manage agricultural resources to reap sustainable environmental, economic and social benefits. This "triple bottom line" of benefits can be done with optimizing existing resource management.


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## Beekissed (May 18, 2020)

The grass is slowly coming on....the rains and warmer weather will likely speed that process.   I spread some clover seed in some patches of bare ground left by high traffic, big tires in mud, etc.   Spread those a few days ago and they are already up, which is kind of cool....white clover is possibly the fastest germinating seed I've ever planted.  

We are on our 8th pasture rotation so far and it's the best one...and it's not even our land, but a small meadow we mow for absentee owners.   Now we are mowing it green style, while also adding fertility to the land...and  these mowers are so quiet.     

We've grazed the center strip of the meadow, which is just the yard where no fencing exists...we just string polybraid and push in stakes to create small paddocks in between the fence lines so we can mow and fertilize at the same time.   Not a square foot of space that doesn't have sheep pellets on it, so fertilization complete.     Had a lamb born right beside our picnic table and I got to assist a tiny bit...sneaked up on all fours and applied a little traction to those hooves for a first timer that was having a hard time of it, then got out of there.  

Still building fence and we'll be cleaning up logging remains for years to come.   Got 29 round bales at $5 per and we think many of those will be rolled out on logging roads that crisscross the land so we won't have all that bare soil.   The hay will hold moisture there, will help reseed those areas and will provide cover and food for earthworms and bugs that will incorporate that mulch layer into the topsoil.   We just have to jimmy rig a temp bale roller until we can build one.  

We put up a few gates today...new red gates that look perky and cheery to me.   I've always loved red in a landscape, especially on a farm or homestead.  

Contacted the USDA about possibly digging a few ponds and they don't help with that anymore....but they DO help develop springs, which we have quite a few potential springs on the place, so that's good.   They can't do anything until next month due to the Plandemic.   We'll be building a water wagon after we get the next paddock done so we can haul water, minerals and dog food as we move the sheep.  

So, pasture development continues, slowly but surely.   Can't wait to see some good results!


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## Baymule (May 19, 2020)

Grass is the most important plant across the world. Animals eat grass, predators eat the animals (that includes us). Establishing grass on poor ground has its own special challenges. I see the results of your hard work. Bee, you are a good steward of the land and the bounty whic the Lord provides.


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## thistlebloom (May 19, 2020)

It's so good hearing about the progress you're making Bee. It makes me happy.


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## Beekissed (Jun 5, 2020)

I'm thrilled to report an increase in clover in the yard~in types, size, size of bloom and overall spread of it in the yard now.   I've never seen anything like this before at this place.   The trampling, pooping, peeing and also the actual grazing motion~which supposedly stimulates plant growth more than merely cutting does~has started to be realized here.  

I've got red and yellow clover here that we've never seen before and the white clover is taller, the blooms larger, as are the leaves.   There's one section of the yard in which I've rarely seen clover....it usually has a lot of weed I don't know the name of, a ton of wild onions and even moss....and it's now covered in clovers.  

I'm also pleased to report an increase in leaf size, deepening of color, thickness and health of foliage of our apple trees as well.  And under those trees the clover has widened and spread past where it usually grows as well.  The pasture under the apple trees got some pretty hard use at the last part of winter/early spring...it was overgrazed, over trampled, over worked.   It's starting to come back now and will need grazed soon.  

I thought we were not going to see any honeybees this year and I've been looking intently for them each day on this clover...and today I finally saw several!!!  Very beautiful, healthy looking bees!  They've been in short supply in these parts for a long time and I really need to get some of my own~have the hive and all~but haven't had time to actually do so.  

Will post some pics later on of the lovely, lovely clover.   These lambs are so fat their body shakes when they run, so all that milk and clover does a body good!


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## thistlebloom (Jun 5, 2020)

I love when a plan comes together! That's so good to hear that this intensive grazing is doing what you'd hoped for. You've got it going now Bee!


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## Beekissed (Jun 5, 2020)

thistlebloom said:


> I love when a plan comes together! That's so good to hear that this intensive grazing is doing what you'd hoped for. You've got it going now Bee!



I've been walking on sunshine all day over it!  Also about seeing the honeybees...I was getting worried because I hadn't seen any yet this year.  

Here's a few pics...my son said folks will think you are crazy taking pics of grass and I told him the folks I show it to will be the first to understand.   Some folks show grandchildren, I show clover.    

The weird part is we usually have tons of dandelions and now we only have a few here and there.   Used to at this time of year that whole yard would be yellow flowers.  






I've never seen our white clover with such tall stems and big bloom heads before.  





First time we've had these little yellow clovers in our yard!  





This part of the yard is usually full of green onions and a little, low growing silvery looking weed and not much grass at all.  Now it's full of clover and not a single onion or any of those weeds to be found.  




And happened to spot this pretty little butterfly working the clover, as well as many, many bees. 















Older ram lamb wearing my homemade ram apron.  Seems to be working fine!  





And little July, our youngest, is 3 wks old now and loving the clover also.


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## Baymule (Jun 5, 2020)

That little yellow clover is a type of burr clover. I have it here too, the burrs are not sticker, they are soft. The sheep eat it too and that's all I care about. 

Your grasses and clovers are beautiful. You tell your son that we not only admire pictures of grass, but we appreciate pictures of dirt too! LOL LOL I am happy for you, your hard work is showing. That is some gorgeous pasture!


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## Beekissed (Jun 5, 2020)

Baymule said:


> That little yellow clover is a type of burr clover. I have it here too, the burrs are not sticker, they are soft. The sheep eat it too and that's all I care about.
> 
> Your grasses and clovers are beautiful. You tell your son that we not only admire pictures of grass, but we appreciate pictures of dirt too! LOL LOL I am happy for you, your hard work is showing. That is some gorgeous pasture!



Bay, the cool part about it all is that it works out just like Greg Judy said it would...graze them and it will come!  We didn't do anything different than normal for this place except bunching the sheep into these small paddocks and move them to fresh when it's time to do so.  

Now, if we can get the front yard to look like the back and side yards do...it's got the crappiest grass of all.  When I see THAT part showing up with clover galore, I'll know this truly works.  

And you should see these sheep move to fresh paddock.....it's like mentioning free beer to a college crowd.  It's a stampede!  I just pull up a push in stake, pull the line over to make a gate and yell for them...and make sure I'm out of the way!  

This clover is pretty rich, so the poop is coming in clumps...I smeared a clump to one side to see what I could see...and I saw many clover seeds in there.  Hopefully they will deposit a lot of that into paddocks that don't have much.


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## Baymule (Jun 6, 2020)

How long is your clover season? Mine is gone now, the rye and fescue is too. We need to mow pasture #2, the rye and fescue is so thick, is dying back, and the Bermuda is coming out now.


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## Beekissed (Jun 6, 2020)

Baymule said:


> How long is your clover season? Mine is gone now, the rye and fescue is too. We need to mow pasture #2, the rye and fescue is so thick, is dying back, and the Bermuda is coming out now.


We have clover for three seasons until it goes dormant around November.  Starts back up in growing around March. 

 I wish I knew more about grasses but haven't had time to learn them all.  I think it's the rye grass that has all went to seed around here...tall, spindly stems, lots of seeds.  Or it could be the orchard grass...not sure.   Either way, it's none too thick but it's evenly distributed throughout our graze areas and all went to seed, which the sheep won't touch.


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## Baymule (Jun 6, 2020)

That is a LONG clover growing season! The crimson clover we have is quickly done, beautiful while it is here, but it doesn't last long. I scattered Dutch white clover and white ball clover. Not too sure which is which and don't care, I do know the Dutch white clover has the longest grazing life and there is white clover all over the place now. We grazed the horses in the yard, knowing they would go poop out the seeds down the pipeline, good for next year! LOL 

I'm trying hard to get bahia and Bermuda established for summer grazing. In this powdery dry sand, it's an uphill fight.


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## Beekissed (Jun 6, 2020)

Baymule said:


> That is a LONG clover growing season! The crimson clover we have is quickly done, beautiful while it is here, but it doesn't last long. I scattered Dutch white clover and white ball clover. Not too sure which is which and don't care, I do know the Dutch white clover has the longest grazing life and there is white clover all over the place now. We grazed the horses in the yard, knowing they would go poop out the seeds down the pipeline, good for next year! LOL
> 
> I'm trying hard to get bahia and Bermuda established for summer grazing. In this powdery dry sand, it's an uphill fight.



We have very little red clover and it doesn't last long at all.  It's the white clover that is so hardy and sustainable here.  And it's got the cheapest price if wanting to buy the seed for it.   Some folks just put it in their supplemental feed or even the mineral mix to get it scattered across their land and fertilized at the same time.  

Since scattering hay on the gardens and bare spots on the land these past few years I'm also starting to see spots and clumps of Ladino clover more and more, but it doesn't bloom for long.   It's very tall, very large leaf.   Have it growing in the flower beds, the garden and up by the dog run.   

I'd love to see all species of clover here, especially crimson clover...I think it's gorgeous!


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## Beekissed (Jun 12, 2020)

We grazed a small field next to us that we normally mow for an absentee owner and since then I'm seeing more clover~all kinds~than I've ever seen there before!   I've been walking across that little stretch of land since I was 10 yrs old and had never seen that much clover there.  We normally mow that several times a season before it gets too tall, but not as often as we do our lawn.  It's amazing to me that the simple act of bunching some sheep on there so they have to fertilize it well and trample the soil~then pulling them off to let it recover~ could yield that quick of results.   The deer have grazed that field all these years and didn't create that kind of pasture....and they sure are grazing it now!  

Makes me want to jump and shout!   

We'll be grazing that again in about a week or two, which will give that clover time to mature and go to seed, then the sheep will come along and get a good bit of those seeds to carry along with them to other parts of that field and to the next paddock in line.  Just spreading that goodness....


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## Cotton*wood (Oct 20, 2021)

Baymule said:


> We have dragged and burned tons of briars, branches, weeds and such over the last 4 1/2 years. But some we piled up in low spots and covered with horse manure. The tree trunks have rotted nicely, returning nutrients to the soil. These pictures are in pasture #1.
> 
> This was once a BIG pile! After I took the picture, I picked up a lot of wind fall limbs and placed on the pile. We’ll cover with more horse manure.
> 
> ...


I'm really liking this idea of making berms from the downed trees (of which we do and will have plenty).  Rather than using the tractor blade to scrape out swales and shape berms, use the wood to slow the run-off of water and soil where our grass is thin and nutrients lacking.  We're planning to park the sheep on that hillside for a week at a time in each spot, and feed hay, to get some build-up.


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## Cotton*wood (Oct 20, 2021)

Beekissed said:


> Those pics you show of the sprouts through the hay made me think of this article, @Baymule :  http://greenpasturesfarm.net/2019/05/30/greg-judy-article-building-soil-with-wasted-grass/


This is a GREAT article and gives me much hope for the future of my pasture.  I think Greg Judy is great, but I don't have a lot of patience for his videos.  Yes, he has really good things to say, but he's a talker, and it often takes a long time to get to the "meat."  Like Bay, I prefer reading....  But they are totally well worth watching.


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## Cotton*wood (Oct 20, 2021)

Baymule said:


> How long is your clover season? Mine is gone now, the rye and fescue is too. We need to mow pasture #2, the rye and fescue is so thick, is dying back, and the Bermuda is coming out now.


In Kansas, we have clover blooming pretty much from June through late October.  It was really gratifying to see it all coming up again fresh and green after being grazed down to the ground by the sheep (too small of a paddock, evidently), even now, in October.

Also, I was incredibly gratified to be able to identify new grasses in our "aster field" (ie, mostly just weeds and Broomsedge Bluestem, which the sheep do NOT eat)--new clumps of big bluestem, little bluestem, Indiangrass, and side oats gamma.  Pretty darned exciting!


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