# Neighbor dog vs LGD. Eventually there will be trouble.



## Blue Sky (Mar 14, 2020)

New neighbors have a pit bull bitch and her 3-4 month old puppy. She roams freely and recently has taken an interest in fence fighting with my LGDs and is interested in my sheep. I have no contact info and can’t approach the house. I have had a pit and a pit x rottie as well as LGDs so I have some experience w dog behavior. This dog has aggression issues and I now take a gun w me to my back pasture in case she’s gotten in. This I’m afraid, is not going to end well. We are rural so no authorities will get involved. I guess I’m down to a note in the mailbox. Suggestions?


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## Baymule (Mar 14, 2020)

SSS

Shoot. Shovel. Shutup.


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## Baymule (Mar 14, 2020)

People who let aggressive dogs roam do not give one bit of care about you, your dogs, your sheep or anything else. My theory is that if you notify them that their dog is a problem, you will be the first person they come to when their dog disappears. If you know nothing about their dog and have not placed yourself on their radar, it will keep much better neighbor relations. JMO


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## Beekissed (Mar 14, 2020)

Baymule said:


> People who let aggressive dogs roam do not give one bit of care about you, your dogs, your sheep or anything else. My theory is that if you notify them that their dog is a problem, you will be the first person they come to when their dog disappears. If you know nothing about their dog and have not placed yourself on their radar, it will keep much better neighbor relations. JMO



I agree!   So, so many people have started a war with neighbors with something so simple as a note or polite phone call about their dogs....and it doesn't end well.  Usually their LGDs are poisoned across the fence line. 

Don't say a word....let your dogs do their jobs and they will.   No pit dog will be a match for a couple of good LGDs....they can kill wolves, they can kill a pit bull.    Keep your gun handy and if you have to use it, don't tell a soul....not even on here...even if you were fully in your rights to defend your life, dogs and stock.   Just disappear the carcass and when they come asking if you've seen their dog, say you have but haven't seen it since whatever time or day you SSS and it's nothing but the truth. 

Bay is right....folks who have those kinds of dogs roaming free won't care a thing about how polite or nice you are about their nuisance dogs.   Not only will they not care, but they will be fully angered that your dogs get to roam freely in the pasture but you expect theirs to not be able to do so on THEIR side of the fence. 

Don't          say         a        single       word.


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## Blue Sky (Mar 14, 2020)

I reluctantly agree. Sometimes it’s best to not try to reason. I want to think the best but you all raise valid points. Something tells me that between traffic, predator loads and other neighbors this will resolve itself. Sigh.


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## Blue Sky (Mar 15, 2020)

Yep that pup is hers, can’t wait til she goes into heat again 😱 My boys have been neutered but I have seen them all display extreme interest in in heat bitches. Oh. Yay.


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## Blue Sky (Mar 15, 2020)

Not to turn this into a saga but the owners appear to be trying containment. The pup has an injury but both dogs were in neighboring donkey pasture so- 💡💡💡💡


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## Beekissed (Mar 15, 2020)

Blue Sky said:


> Not to turn this into a saga but the owners appear to be trying containment. The pup has an injury but both dogs were in neighboring donkey pasture so- 💡💡💡💡



That oughta do it.     Could be your problems are solved, if they are smart enough to heed the warning.  Donkeys....gotta love 'em.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Mar 16, 2020)

Blue Sky said:


> New neighbors have a pit bull bitch and her 3-4 month old puppy. She roams freely and recently has taken an interest in fence fighting with my LGDs and is interested in my sheep. I have no contact info and can’t approach the house. I have had a pit and a pit x rottie as well as LGDs so I have some experience w dog behavior. This dog has aggression issues and I now take a gun w me to my back pasture in case she’s gotten in. This I’m afraid, is not going to end well. We are rural so no authorities will get involved. I guess I’m down to a note in the mailbox. Suggestions?


That will be very inevitable. Good luck with that.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 18, 2020)

I agree with everyone above.  Don't complain to your neighbors and get into a fight about their dogs.  If they are letting the dogs run, someone will shoot them, coyotes will kill them, or the LGDs will take them out when they come in after the livestock.  Keep your gun handy, and just shoot and bury them without saying anything.  If you let your neighbors know that you are upset about their dogs, they will come after_ you _if someone else shoots theit dogs.  If the puppy got injured, maybe they figured out they need to keep the dogs confined.  If the dogs come on your property, you are entitled to shoot it.  If anyone wants to know what you were shooting at say a coyote was after your sheep.  If their dogs take down a ewe or lamb and you shoot it and it has ID, you can decide then if you want to try to collect compensation from the owners. You might have to go to court to do that.   Most states allow compensation of the value of the animals if you have proof.  Sometimes you are allowed 2 to 3 times the value from a dog attack if you can ID the owner and prove that the dog(s) was running loose.  I would probably only try to collect compensation if the dog killed or tore up a number of sheep since you would have to show the sheriff the body of the dog and the collar or microchip information proving ownership.  While you would probably win, you will have a neighbor feud.   On the other hand, a lot of people who let dogs run loose do not ID their dogs and will deny that it is their dog. 

*Better to just shoot, shovel and shut up.  *

A couple years go the neighbor cross the gully had a large Cane Corso, a pitbull and a cross of the 2.  Those 3 dogs terrorized the neighborhood.  They were sweet when approaching people, but killed a lot of animals including finally all his goats sheep and poultry.  He blamed a mountain lion.  People did not want to report the dogs or their problems and when you called the owner he would pick them up and just said that they got out when he opened his automatic gate!  The owner had a lot of money and people were afraid to complain much.  We didn't know anything about them even though we had sheep and lots of lambs in our field.  But we also had 2 Anatolian LGDs at the time (now 3).  We believed that a mountain ion had attacked and decimated his livestock since supposedly they found the prints of 2 or 3 lions.  We thought a lioness training her cubs did the job.

Shortly after that, our lower neighbor called in a panic - the 3 dogs had attacked her mare in her corral right outside her house!  The mare was severely injured and they had driven the dogs off but the 3 dogs were heading uphill towards our property.  I yelled for my son to bring his rifle and we all ran outside to protect the sheep.  We couldn't see the dogs and our Anatolians were not barking.  Then I saw our dogs running along the fence line silently.  The other 3 dogs were on the other side of the fence and our dogs were pacing them.  My son ran over to get a shot at them but they had turned up into the hills and I told him not to shoot since they were a ways off and there were houses there.  He has a "marksman" ranking from the army, but I ddn't want to take any chances.

The reason our dogs were not barking at those dogs is because if those dogs had come into the property my dogs would have just tried to kill them.  LGDs coming to KILL a predator do not make any noise.  They bark to warn off predators but any predator stupid or bold enough to disregard their warnings and come after their flock just gets killed.  

Hopefully the owners will start keeping the dogs fenced in now that one has gotten injured.


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## Blue Sky (Mar 18, 2020)

Thanks for the response. I think it’s a case of one resident not caring about the gate. I haven’t seen the dogs in or out today. I’m hoping for the best but prepared. I had a pit bull problem my LGDs solved but that was a decade ago so those good soldiers are gone.


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## Beekissed (Mar 18, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> They bark to warn off predators but any predator stupid or bold enough to disregard their warnings and come after their flock just gets killed.



I agree.   Folks will say they are not bred to kill predators but merely to warn them off and be a presence, but I beg to differ.   A good one will not have much to say.... but will definitely kill when he gets the chance and the predator is in his territory.  

My two were flat out in the yard like dead dogs one minute and the next were running like the wind up the hill and I saw a red fox running in front of them.....not a single bark, just pursuit.   They haven't come back yet, but I'm sure they didn't catch that fox...gotta be REAL quick to catch a fox.


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## Mike CHS (Mar 18, 2020)

This was an interesting thread and I love the advice given.  There is only 6 houses on our road within a three mile radius and everyone is shoot on sight so there are no issues.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 19, 2020)

Neighborhood dogs are often *more* of a threat than wild predators.  

Wild predators rely on stealth to hunt, kill, and *eat*.  Being discovered and having prey warned by a barking dog will often cause them to relocate.  In normal circumstances  warning off game can cause them to starve, while battles with LGDs can leave them injured and unable to hunt - again possible death.  Wild predators try to aoid both, rarely fighting to the death.  Our resident packs of coyotes still test the boundaries to make sure my LGDs are working but seldom try for a lamb any more.  The last time was right after the creek fires when all their territory had burned and they were desperate.  5 other packs relocated from burned out territories to our neighborhood and we had too many for my dogs to work on our hilly property.  Before we realized how many had been added to or predator load, we made the mistake of leaving our sheep out during the night thinking the dogs were adequate and  lost a lamb.  The coyotes didn't have  chance to eat it, but my bitch got slashed across the face as one tried to protect the kill.  We went back to  penning the sheep at night,  and haven't had trouble since.  The coyotes had lured the dogs away from the sheep in order to make the kill - easy to do on our property.  They were exhausted, working 24/7, and had gotten no rest.  When we penned the sheep, they curled up on either side of the fold and slept like they were dead.  Made me really understand the need to match the number of LGDs to the predator load.  They really are soldiers but sending them out against unmatched odds is dangerous for them and their flock.  They will fight to the death for us, but by using our intelligence we can give them better odds.  They are our partners not robots.

When it comes to neighborhood dogs though, there is a difference in protection.  Neighborhood dogs are just out for a "good time".  For most of them on a killing spree, it is sort of like spring break getting out of hand.  Warning barks might deter them but they don't care about stealth hunting.  They do not (normally) depend on the kill for food so will often consider the warnings of the LGDs as being playful greetings.  They will learn that your LGDs are not to be taken for granted, but it might take some actually fighting to learn that they are serious.  Against unfriendly dogs, they will usually turn away and find some other unfortunate who does not have LGDs.

How many LGDs do you have and how large is the area they protect?  Hopefully the neighbors are just another foolish family that thinks the country means their dogs can "run free as God intended".


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## Blue Sky (Mar 19, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> Neighborhood dogs are often *more* of a threat than wild predators.
> 
> Wild predators rely on stealth to hunt, kill, and *eat*.  Being discovered and having prey warned by a barking dog will often cause them to relocate.  In normal circumstances  warning off game can cause them to starve, while battles with LGDs can leave them injured and unable to hunt - again possible death.  Wild predators try to aoid both, rarely fighting to the death.  Our resident packs of coyotes still test the boundaries to make sure my LGDs are working but seldom try for a lamb any more.  The last time was right after the creek fires when all their territory had burned and they were desperate.  5 other packs relocated from burned out territories to our neighborhood and we had too many for my dogs to work on our hilly property.  Before we realized how many had been added to or predator load, we made the mistake of leaving our sheep out during the night thinking the dogs were adequate and  lost a lamb.  The coyotes didn't have  chance to eat it, but my bitch got slashed across the face as one tried to protect the kill.  We went back to  penning the sheep at night,  and haven't had trouble since.  The coyotes had lured the dogs away from the sheep in order to make the kill - easy to do on our property.  They were exhausted, working 24/7, and had gotten no rest.  When we penned the sheep, they curled up on either side of the fold and slept like they were dead.  Made me really understand the need to match the number of LGDs to the predator load.  They really are soldiers but sending them out against unmatched odds is dangerous for them and their flock.  They will fight to the death for us, but by using our intelligence we can give them better odds.  They are our partners not robots.
> 
> ...


I have 3 LGDs with a flock of 75 on 25 acres mostly flat, two  stands of trees. Perimeter is surrounded by brush and woods except in a couple of places. LGDs are pyr, pyr xKomondor and a Anatolian x black mouthed cut. All neutered males. I have an  Anatolian that isn’t working sheep but is released into empty pastures. These dogs have confronted dogs in the pasture, rolled them and all walked away. This pit bitch is aggressive on and off her property. She charged the Fed Ex driver trying to deliver in my driveway (she was fence fighting my dogs when he pulled up). Since her 3 acre yard is about 400 ft away it’s not territorial.  She is tolerant of her owner’s children but others who can say? It appears she is contained but she visits the shared fence to fight if my LGDs are visible. She also tests the fence high and low. My dogs usually ignore her but not always. Pits can do a lot of damage fast and I don’t want my dogs chewed up.


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## Ridgetop (Mar 19, 2020)

You are right to be wary.  LGDs are big powerful dogs, but vet bills can be monstrous and injuries can take a dog out of the field for a while.  However, if this bitch continues to be this aggressive, she will eventually find a way onto your property.  Your dogs will take care of her but you don't need the aggravation and worry.  Maybe the delivery people will report her to the sheriff as a "dangerous dog" situation. 

By the way, if your LGDs do tangle with other dogs or predators, my friend and Anatolian breeder gave me a tip about dog bite injuries.  Since they are usually puncture wounds which can infect quickly, he uses dry mastitis treatments to doctor them.  The mastitis tubes are designed with narrow tips to insert into the teat to place the antibiotic infusion into the udder.  I started using these on any puncture wound since you can get the antibiotic up into the hole easily.  They are perfect for punctures and bite wounds.  Nothing worse than a puncture that skins over and heals on the surface, letting the infection run rampant below the skin.  Since he has about 30 Anatolians of all ages in different pastures, they often play rough, and puncture each other.  He uses Tomorrow, the dry mastitis treatment.  You can order I from Jeffers and other livestock suppliers.  I used to use it on the dairy herd every year when we dried off the girls.  Now I can't get it delivered any more here in California since they have listed ALL antibiotics as "prescription only" here since January 2019.  Next time I leave the state I will have to stock up on my antibiotics and Tomorrow to bring back with me.


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## Blue Sky (Mar 19, 2020)

Thank you so much. I’ve treated puncture with a saline wash out and antibiotics but new things are always good to know. Punctures were from coyotes. Saw it.


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