# A NEW DIRECTION FOR THE OLD RAM



## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day to you all.After almost 20 years breeding our line of Suffolk’s we will over the next 12 months sell almost all of the flock and transition to a composite Hair flock. Starting from “scratch “by  purchasing small lines of ewes and suitable rams along with some genes of our Suffolk’s we will begin to breed up a suitable type of slaughter lamb which has the ease of production (i.e. no shearing or crutching)but with the eating qualities of the English Shortwools.

I guess some of you are Hair Sheep Breeders, have you found any adverse comment about the “denseness “of the meat or a taste they dislike? Down here the supermarkets present the two types quite differently, but perhaps you all have taken the trouble to target them properly?

I have observed some “consumer pushback” to the eating qualities of the Hair or Tribal breeds and the prices at the saleyards “reflect this”, but if we apply the production methods we use with the Suffolk’s the lower prices we receive for breeding females and production rams will be off- set by the reduced workload and we will be able to continue to farm sheep for a number of years into the future.( I'm now 75)

Buying in the sale yard is a “risky” business” as in the main the stock has some sort of “fault” but with careful breeding these initial problems will be overcome, buying in the private market results in mainly small lines (maybe even just one or two ewes at an exorbitant price)for which you have to travel for hours to look at. Our regional sale is a 200 km round trip but there are times when you will be able to purchase some very good lines as an average sale is over 6000 head on a weekly basis(small I know by the numbers some sales attract), you just have to turn up each week and because we wish to start with about 100 ewes with as big a genetic pool as possible it seems the way to go.

The introduction of the Australian White is such a breed, but the path they took seems to be a “well kept secret”, although I did miss out on a “run” of their young ewes recently because I did not “have my wits about me” and realized too late what they were.

So this week we purchased our first ewes, they were within budget and all looked to be “in-lamb” (14 in all). They are a mixed lot of BH and White Headed Dorpers; some are pretty “scruffy” and need to be cleaned up. I don’t think the traditional method of sheep shearing is  the way to go as on the first side you are shearing against the way the hair lays, so I think I will try a shear down  method like the way you finish on the second side in normal shearing. If you clear around the tail and up to the “pin”, then start at the “poll” and go down the neck across the shoulder and finish the “first side” turn the sheep over and do the second side as normal will result in a “cleaner “ looking job.

I would be interested in any of “your” experiences in this type of breeding; I will resist the use of Poll Dorset’s but may try a Texel, Wiltipoll, White Suffolk or even a Border Leicester, but I fear it may put too much “leg” under the lambs.....T.O.R.


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## AClark

Well, lamb isn't a common food in the US, you can find it at the grocery store but they usually don't have a large selection and it's $6 or so a lb. here - mostly the tags say imported from New Zealand. I'm not sure if there's a difference in taste between breeds, as I've only ever had what the grocery store has and who knows what breed it was. They usually only have lamb chops, though I've rarely seen a lamb shank.

I know that isn't very helpful. I don't know that there are a lot of Aussies on BYH, so your market may be related to US consumers. I think I'd ask a butcher if there is a difference in taste/texture with a hair sheep breed. They'd know pretty well.


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## Pastor Dave

In the States folks are willing to pay more for home-grown vs. super market. They pay more for free-range, steroid-free, antibiotic-free, organic, Non-GMO, etc.
It's all on the advertising as you well know. That's how I would present yours. Also quality invites repeat customers. 

I agree with @AClark  Mostly chops in stores until Spring time, then see shanks in stores for Passover.


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## Baymule

I have a very small flock of mixed hair sheep. I have eaten bought lamb, which I am pretty sure was from a wool breed and found it to be gamy and strong tasting. Not bad, but not great. My own lamb does not have that strong taste, it is delicious. JMO

This is a huge move for you. I admire the resiliency in you and your wife in making this switch. My husband is 72, I am 62 and didn't want to get into wool sheep because of all the extra work involved in shearing.

I was all about Dorpers, but after having my mixed hair sheep, with a Dorper ram, have changed my mind to Katahdins. The Katahdin registry also permits "grading up" as long as the resulting lambs are recorded. After several generations, the recorded lambs can be registered. I also like that the tails are not docked, which can be a hot topic for many. This might be silly, but I also like the different colors instead of the same boring white or white with a black head. I have a small flock, not 300 breeding ewes, so I can be more flexible on what I want.

I direct market our lambs to customers. I sell lamb for $8 a pound, hanging weight. Next month we'll take 3 wethers to slaughter that were sold when they were born, on a waiting list. People in our area are very supportive of small farms, they want quality, good, healthy food. I don't know about distance for you, but we are close enough to our market area that people can come visit the farm, if they choose to.

Another thing I like about the Katahdins, is that they shed off better then the Dorpers that I have seen. I know there are lines of Dorpers that shed off well, but have not seen any near me. I am now looking to upgrade my starter flock, starting with a registered Katahdin, DNA tested RR ram. I will add registered Katahdin ewes as availability and money allow.

From what you have posted, it seems that hair sheep and hair sheep lamb bring a lower price?

This is all from a VERY new sheep owner, so take what you want from it. I am not a fly speck on the wall from experience next to you and your years of experience.


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## Bossroo

Traditionally at University Taste Test Competitions in the US , the normal size Southdown ranked at the top then closely followed by Suffolk, Hampshire, and Dorset. Hampshire has lost favor due to wide shoulders on lambs causing difficulty at birth.  Then, when the wool market crashed, most commercial breeders quit their business or whent broke.  Today,  the Dorper meat ranks right up there with the Southdown, Suffolk, and Dorset in sanctioned Taste Test Competitions. There is a Katahdin breeder just 5 miles down the road from us with over 100 ewes.  Two years ago, they bought a Dorper ram and compared their Katahdin lambs to the Dorper Xs.  They found that the X bred lambs weaned at a higher weight and brought more $$s at the stock auction.  They then baught another Dorper ram.  The other hair sheep breed lambs just do not wean anywhere near the Dorper' lambs, so their cost of production does not pencil out financially.  In my experience,  the more lanolin the sheep breed produces, the stronger the taste of their meat.  Hair sheep meat has a milder taste.


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## Latestarter

Congratulations and my wish for success in your new endeavor! I must say I was rather amazed that you were still out there shearing a huge herd of sheep at 70+ years old. Seems like a lot of work during the time of life when you should be (most want to be) relaxing. More power to ya!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G’day and thanks for your comments ,as I recall in the 50’s the butchers and the then emerging supermarkets got together and convinced the govt that the private sale of meat should be banned unless it met all of the conditions they had to conform to ,there is still an” underground “market for farm killed meat as the opportunities to get animals slaughtered is small because over the years the big processers have purchased and closed the small operators’, occasionally see at farmers markets selling their own grown lamb mainly Dorper lamb but it never seems to be that popular.

I dislike the Dorset’s as sires because they tend to be quite “square fronted”, it took years for us to “breed out” the width in the Suffolk’s and replace them with our “smooth shoulders” for ease of lambing because we lamb in paddocks in the open with just tussocks and timber up-wind as shelter. The crossing of two breeds produces the F1 effect  which in the first instance out-performs generally speaking both of the pure bred parents but in subsequent crosses the lambs favor one parent or the other. The traditional lamb in Aussie is a series of crosses of Merino and 
British Shortwools and I think we consume over 10 million of them annually. The other reason why processors prefer them is the “skin value” and the return from “dead wool” on which they pay”no wool tax”.

Some of you may wonder why we have chosen this “new “path, last Dec after 18 months of trying by me and her doctor she finally agreed to be tested and the tests came back positive for Alzheimer’s .To date most of the impact has been on her mental abilities and memory although she does “tire” a little more easily now when we are out on the farm .Luckily I had had only one episode when she went out of the front gate and turned the wrong way and walked 9 kms before she realized she was in trouble, meanwhile I was in a “panic’ it had got dark and the police would not let me leave the house while they organized people and a specially fitted helicopter to begin the search. But then a chap rang me and said that a lady had “landed” on his doorstep not knowing just where she was and gave him our phone number. She now understands that she must not go out our front gate near the house (which is 2 kms from the road.)When we first started discussing the change she was quite “excited” at the prospect which is beneficial to her condition and the fact she is now looking forward to going to the sale each week is also another benefit as socially she was “withdrawing’’ and still resents people coming onto the farm ....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

We don't slaughter the lambs ourselves, we take them to be processed. We recently processed a hog for ourselves and helped two neighbors with theirs, but wouldn't offer farm slaughtered meat to customers.

I am so sorry to learn of your wife's test results. Prayers for you and her. Having the hair sheep over the wool sheep will take a little less work and time, time that you can devote to your wife.


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## Hens and Roos

Prayers for you and your wife.


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## frustratedearthmother

I know this will be a tough road for you and her.   Keeping her engaged and socially active may certainly help her. Sending prayers for both of you.


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## Latestarter

So sorry to hear the news of the tests for your wife. I've witnessed the results of that disease with neighbors as well as family and it's a long drawn out affair with a terrible ending. Wishing you all the best. Enjoy every day that the two of you can share.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day ,do you think there would be any value in an ongoing discussion about the outcomes and the decision making process with regard to this new endevour? It would require me to post a couple of times a week and use photos where possible to illustrate  what I am attempting.T.O.R.(aka Frank).


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## Mike CHS

More discussion might do more to help others rather than yourself but it can only benefit everyone.

I'm happy for your change in direction and the positives that could come from them.


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## Baymule

I would love for you to post what you are doing. You have so much experience to share, it would great to read and discuss the changes you are making. I can't help but wonder, all the years of breeding the fine sheep you have, is someone snapping up the genetics of your sheep?


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## Bossroo

Frank , I am so sorry to hear of your wife's  health issue and hope that she and you remain happy.  if you would be so kind as to post about your decisions for breeding rams and ewes and their conformation for meat production, labor and faciliies time saving practices, pasture management tips, etc. and their outcomes as this would be of great benefit to others. Many of the sheep that you mentioned I have never seen or heard of, so information on them would be of great interest to one and all.   I sold off all of my sheep when the wool market crashed in the US  and sad to say that the vast majority of my sheep whent to slaughter and as a result was the loss of great genetics.  What I see of the conformation of most of the sheep on small farms today , I would have sent to Campbels' canner soup production at first oportunity.  They may be cute and colorful , nice horns, too old to produce a lamb profitably, or a freebee rescue, but they do not put food on one's table without great financial outlay in terms of extra time, labor, facilities, feed , medication / vet bill, and dollars. Definately not  the husbandry practices of our fore-fathers. That goes for the rest of the livestock being kept today too.  Thank you for your past postings and I hope that you continue to open other's eyes wide open.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you for your kindness and support,I think (with the approval of the administrator) if would be wise to keep all of the discussion in one place,so people new to the "chat" have the history and the context in one place. Initially we may start at the very beginning of a farming endeavor and look at what needs to be considered at the very start,but for now I have to go and check the new lambs that are being born on our place at the minute...T.O.R.


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## mystang89

I know nothing about any of this but I hope everything goes well for you on your different move.

EDIT: Just finished reading the rest of your posts. I'm sorry about the diagnosis. Really am. That is one of the things I fear happening in my life. Please keep us posted so people new to all this can learn. 
Thanks.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

IN THE BEGINNING: Was there a plan? Evan if you have already purchased the farm, do you have a plan?

Farms fall into one of three types 1.Strictly a hobby in which there is no financial pressure.2.The objective is to reduce your cost of living by growing the majority of your own food.3.A semi commercial operation where the object is to realize a “profit” from the project.

The first Law of farming is that you are going to “eat them”.

1. I suspect that 4h projects fall into this category, the return bears no resemblance to a real life farm because in “real life” the purchaser would never pay that sort of money for an animal.

2. In this case your initial selection of the farm and its capabilities determines what sort of animal production you can reasonably aim for. Most farmers in the initial stage are constrained by the availability of funds to both purchase and to build the necessary infrastructure to manage their livestock.

3. This option is when you have been “bitten by the bug” and you decide that this is the life you wish to lead into the future, but beware this step is “fraught” with pitfalls; there is a saying “How do you make a small fortune from farming?”Answer.”You start with a very large fortune”.

Let’s examine the options a litter deeper. Option 1.Your young teen decides to enter a lamb into the completion and you purchase an animal of “good breeding” and invest a “small fortune” in feed and its care, in the hope your teen will be rewarded with the Blue Ribbon ……Option 2.Because the amount of land and its ability to produce and grow an animal to feed yourselves at a “price” which is less than the price from the local butcher or supermarket. The temptation is to buy a couple of ewes and a ram to produce the young animals you will eat. On our first farm we had all “manner” of livestock and we “ate” all of them, goats, lambs, pigs, calves, chickens and ducks. There were no pets in the male dept and all of our children understood this. Our farm was not a” retirement home” for old or un-productive animals…. Option 3.When we purchased our 2nd farm of 25acs we were intent on producing livestock for a profit and had already identified a target market we could concentrate on, which was the production of” farmed goat meat’ for the local ethnic and restaurant trade….Option 3.Is a huge leap and should not be entered into lightly, ensure you can survive for a couple of years with “no farm income”. If your family has a history in farming, how far back is it? You may be surprised just how much Grandpa knows about how to run a livestock operation. Keep your day job if at all possible until you feel confident with what you are doing .Offer to work on a neighbor’s farm for free to gain knowledge and learn shortcuts on stuff like fencing and undertaking  the thousand other jobs you will have to become skilled at. If you can get an “old retired farmer” to mentor you so much the better.

ANY QUESTIONS so far? Next time we will examine Option 2 a little further.

PHOTOS.1. these twins are about a week old now and considering the feed conditions she is doing a good job on them…Photo.2 .The mothers shown were the result of a BH Dorper ram over a Suffolk ewe  and the lambs are the result of putting then back to the Suffolk.


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## Sheepshape

Sorry to hear of your wife's diagnosis,TOR. Just as an observation, an Alzheimer's diagnosis is usually much worse for the family than the sufferer who frequently has little insight into their failing mental prowess. Having worked with Alzheimer's sufferers, I would suggest that you try to maintain a routine in all matters as far as is possible. Change is difficult to handle with cognitive decline.

Try to keep your wife involved with as much as you can. As past memory is relatively well preserved (when the memory circuits worked well), reminders of the past will often be well received.

I hope your new venture works out.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you SS,9 months ago it was "just a word",so you can imagine my learning curve in the ensuring period.
T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

POST 2. Examining option 2: YOU CAN CHOOSE TO BE “A BREEDER OR A FEEDER”?

Have you considered the best path for you?

At the time of our fist farm we had chickens, ducks, pigs, goats, ponies and a cow. But all of our feed was via my job at Kellogg, where I got reject and damaged stock via my job. Without this “free feed” would it have been viable? Even though we sold eggs and goats it would have been a “loss making” venture.

So before you invest in livestock, consider which path is the one for you from a finical outcome perspective.

Option 2... Is about reducing your cost of living, so a veggie garden and orchard are top of the list. Chickens /ducks are next on the list we had a good market for duck eggs to the Asian market for “pickling” and a regular sale for Chicken eggs every week ,because even in those days people appreciated “fresh farm eggs”(remember this is almost 40 years ago).

First you have to work out just what you consume in a 12 month period. Once you eat your own chickens, you will “hate “the idea of store bought. Next is Pork, Lamb and Beef, how much do you consume over a year? Let’s say your farm is between 5 /10 ACS, breeding your food is not really an option because your COP (cost of production) could be twice the cost at the supermarket. Even on out 2nd farm of 25 ACS we sent our cow (Betsey) up the road to a neighbors’ Bull. We were however breeding performance tested goat Bucks for sale for the production of Goat meat along with farmed kids for the local Goat meat trade. We had also developed a flock of Naturally Colored Sheep (Corridales) with fleeces selling to spinners and weavers. They would ring and come to the farm, pick out the fleece and I would shear it for them on the spot.

Buying a “weaned “lamb, pig, goat or calf and feeding them until the “Fall “mainly on the available grass, is a very “cost effective” method of reducing your cost of living. It’s only until you take the “next step” that it becomes economically viable to proceeding to a breeding project. I know that everyone wants to be a “Stud Breeder” of a breed that has caught there eye, but you need to think “rationally” about what you are trying to achieve here.

Meanwhile down on the farm: The trip to the sale this week resulted in the purchase of 6 Dorper/ Border Leister Ewes, two of which were showing in-lamb, they are in light condition and have a had a pretty tough time of it, so I just shore off of the “rough” and finish the job after they lamb and put on some condition. The hardest sheep to shear are the ones in light condition, a fat sheep although heavier too drag onto the boards is a lot easier to get the fleece off.

Lambing has been progressing quite well with only one ewe lost, she suffered an anal prolapse and trapped the lamb inside her, which resulted in her death (still I dressed her out and she fed the working dogs for over a week).Quite a lot of the lambs are on the light side born, but are quick to “rise” and feed and will easily cover a km by the second day.

This morning when I rose about 1 hr after sunrise I noticed the weather was “not to flash” away to the South-East, a look at the radar did not show anything amiss but I let the lambing ewes into a Woodland Paddock just the same mid-morning, come 1 pm and a Southerly change swept through with rain and some Snow-flakes by then the air-temp was below zero in the wind so my decision was the correct one, BTW, it’s not the cold rain which kills new lambs it’s the “wind” that chills them .

Don’t forget if you are new to the thread, return to the start so the context and the history make sense...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I guess we are still in the very baby stages of getting our operation off the ground. I know our sheep will not make us a living, not on 8 acres, but i would be happy to have them break even. 

The ewes pictures, that was taken at auction? I find it interesting that they are on an elevated floor, instead at ground level on dirt.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you BM,I am curious as you where you put consider yourself in the three farm types I described in the first part?

The ewe picture was taken from above in our shearing shed,its all steel and a "raised board" type we purchased it about 20 years ago from an Angora stud which was selling all their equipment,it was one of the "best " purchases we ever made.The new auction selling center is only a year old and is all under cover with excellent un-loading and loading facilities (I will take a photo of it this week when we go over).


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## The Old Ram-Australia

WHAT A BONUS.It's been 8 days since we got our second lot of ewes home,this morning one of them turned up with "twins".
It just goes to show you should always consider an older group of ewes if the "price is right".The second group of six cost $86 each,as you can see they were joined to a B H Droper,unsure of the sex yet,but it does not really matter,even if they are both Male they will make a $100 ea when we sell them.

I snapped a couple of pic's of our selling center,they had about 5000 hd to sell on the day,prices were too strong for us to buy any,but there is another sale next Wed and who knows?...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

CHAPTER 3.DEVOLOPING A PLAN.A suggested pathway.

I recall some advice I heard long ago, “IF YOU FAIL TO PLAN, YOU PLAN TO FAIL”.

Start with a satellite photo of your farm, drawn in your boundaries, existing fencing, water points and house, shedding, yards, etc. Identify each paddock (name or number).Think about how you work your stock, is there a natural pathway to get stock from any paddock to your yards, sheds etc, or is it a “nightmare” in the making because whoever designed the layout did not consider that sheep have to be shorn, drenched, foot trimmed ,etc. Sheep learn by repetition so if you always take the same path from a given paddock  to the sheds in time it will become a lot easier  to move them and BTW ,your dogs will know what you are setting out to do as well and this saves a lot of” wear and tear” on the farmer.

Draw up a list of what’s good and what’s bad about the layout of your farm as it currently stands and how you can make it better, this will be the basis of your plan, add a time frame for making the system better ,some short ,some long. Prioritize the tasks ,try to complete one before starting another although routine tasks will come up and may make for slow going at times, because there are rules and regulations governing the way your farm is run and they need to be “complied “ with to avoid problems with the local agencies...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

A handsome pair you have there. What a nice surprise.

I suppose our farm is between #1 and #2. We raise our food because it tastes better and we enjoy it. We sell eggs which covers the cost of feed. We sell lambs but are in the hole there. Trying to plant and build pasture to help out on costs.

Moving them from one pasture to another is easy. I just call them and they come running. We will have to lay more water pipe. For now I drag a water hose to 2 pastures.


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## Simpleterrier

It should be the wise old ram


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you for reading and responding.
I suppose BM that the sheep are #1 and the rest is #2?...So it would be interesting to break up the total cost of both into#1/2# and to work out the division of labor of both.

From a labor standpoint the new waterline seems to be a priority,I am unsure of the size of the flock,but how many ewe lambs would it take to finance the job?It could be well worth it to contain the increase in the flock for one year to reduce the labor required into the future.

#2 Are any of  the savings made at the supermarket directed at making that part more efficient by way of "say" improved poultry breeds? #1 I assume you have to house and feed the flock over winter?Perhaps instead of increasing your feed and labor for the full 12 months you could instead buy a few lambs in the Spring and sell them in the Fall,this way you could be much more selective in the stock you carry forward as the basis of the flock in the future...

It has been my experience that there is a tendency to try to "save everything",rather than accept the fact that in Nature there are some which should "never survive" as a way of protecting the species..T.O.R.

Soon we will examine the increasing govt regulation of farming livestock at all levels,down here we are about to get a range of new laws which every livestock owner will have to comply with (that is unless they only sell on the "black market).


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## Baymule

We have battled green briars, slashing with machetes and dragging them out of trees. We have 2 one acre pastures that we are planting to grass. I take my wagon and a shovel out on the roadside and dig Bahia, then sprig it. We have one pasture sprigged, started on the other one. We bought 150 pounds of Kentucky 32 fescue to sow in the shady areas. We bought 25 pounds of Dutch white clover, 50 pounds of white Apache arrow leaf clover, 15 pounds of chicory. 

Pasture #1  From this





To this





Pasture #2

These pictures were taken March 2017. The strip of trees were full of briars, we have since pulled them out and opened it up a little. There is a nice patch of Bermuda grass that I sprigged last fall, but the sheep don't want it and would rather have the Bahia.






Panning right... That's the garden fence on the right. We cut a half dozen of the small trees in this picture.





We finally finished the fence which gave us more area. We had to hack out way through, cut trees, chainsaw, then bush hog with the tractor, and slash with machetes. This newly fenced area takes in a pipeline that is open (no trees)






Before





After











The pipeline, we let it grow up and turned the sheep out on it. When they cleaned it up, we bush hogged it. We'll let them graze it close right before sowing seed.


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## Baymule

I have 4 ewes now. Had to put one down early this year due to a ruptured prepubic tendon. I have 3 ewe lambs, 2 of which I'll probably keep, one is not growing off and is small, but she'll look good on a plate. My ram is ok, not great, just ok. Taking 3 wethers (sold) to slaughter in a few weeks, going to take the ram too. Am looking at a better ram that I'll probably pick up in October.

I'm still looking for "that" breed of chicken. Going to try Australorps in the spring. The good part about old layer hens is that they are good to eat. We also slaughter surplus cockerels. 

I agree, not every animal should be "saved". We do our best, but sometimes Nature knows better than we do.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

OMG,your results are "amazing",there should be some sort of medal for farmers like you who achieve those results.I hope all the group will join me in "congratulating you for your efforts".That is a serious fence it looks to stand about 5 ft tall,When it rains what sort of water volume do you get in the gully?Is the pasture paddock in the background yours?

On the chicken thing,down here a useful X is a Rode Island Red over a White Leghorn,they produce a Brown egg and the roosters make a useful "feed".They refer to them as Isa Browns.We are about to replace ours with a "new lot" ...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

These pictures were taken as we built the water gap. Since then, the paper has pretty much rotted off, leaving the concrete. We have had some hard rains and the water gap lets the water through very well. I have only had to make water gaps for horses and cows, so sheep and dogs present a special challenge. In the wettest winters, there is a constant trickle in the gulley due to seeps where water oozes out of the ground.

Thank you T. O. R. for the lovely compliment.

I was planning on using 40 pound bags of concrete mix for making a water gap in the gully. Our son showed up and changed it to 80 pound bags and he did the lifting! I sure was glad he showed up!







He stacked them in 3 rows to make a good base and a spillway for the water to run out on. We left 2 holes in the third layer. We pounded in 3 T-posts to further stabilize the bags and to securely attach to the long span of wire across the gully.











We left a gap in the top layer.







We stacked 50 pound bags on both sides of the fence in two low spots.






The next day my husband and I cut a piece of wire and using hog rings, we closed the gap between the concrete bags and the fence wire. We ran a piece of twisted smooth wire at the bottom to hog ring the 2x4 wire to.


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## Baymule

Oh, the fence is 4 feet tall with room at the top of the T-posts to run 2 strands of barb wire.....that we haven't got done yet.  That will make it a 5 foot fence and the barb wire will help keep the horses from "necking over" the fence. 

We have several crosses that produce red or black sex links. Each hatchery has their own cross or name. I have 5 red sex links that are turning 3 years that will go to the soup pot and be replaced. Darn good layers! We bought an incubator and I want a breed that I can keep replenishing without always having to order chicks. 

My layers are housed in a hoop coop, I have 2 batches of juvenile Easter Egger chicks housed in A-frame chicken tractors. Plans are to build permanent breeder pens to go with my assortment of coops. LOL


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## Bossroo

Very nice job for your fenceline over the gully.  However, I have a wee bit of a suggestion for you if you want to keep your fence in place  from personal experience.  Since the fence is just over the concrete bags, in a rush of water that will contain debri , dead tree trunks or ?  and pile up against the fence and then pull the fence with their posts out and deposit it elsewhere. I would modify the fence with a wood frame swinging overhead gate/fence over the gully. ( like a doggy door )  When there is a rush of water the gate will swing upwards with the water flow then return to it's normal fence line when water is gone.  I hope that this tip helps you, as it did me.


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## Baymule

Thank you @Bossroo for that suggestion. I have built such watergaps. Our previous property had a dry wash that captured run off water from a large watershed area and could go from a dry wash to a raging river in a matter of hours. I battled the water gap constantly. Our road also went under water, cutting us off from the feed shed and causing general misery. We finally put in a 7'x21' steel tank with the ends cut out for a culvert, ending the water over our road. But the fence was constantly knocked down, horses got out, it was a PITA. The dry wash was a pain where it entered and left the property. I was constantly trying to better the situation, and learned a lot from my failures.

We've had 3 winters here to watch what rains and floods can do. The run off that goes down this gulley comes from a much smaller area, the water never gets very deep, nor does it flow so fast that it is dangerous. I know I will have to clean out the leaves and branches, but this one is a cake walk compared to what I had to deal with before. On our old property, I've had to weave my legs in and out of the barb wire fence to keep from washing down stream, over my waist in water, dragging branches off the fence and passing them to my husband in a futile effort to save the fence.

There is a very narrow strip of forest between the pipe line and the water gap, so that also lessens the branches that can float down stream and muck things up. Eventually we will clean along the gulley like we have done on other areas of the property. 

I've had time to study this to figure out what would let the water through and keep the sheep and dogs in. I've gone out in the rain just to watch the water flow. We've had torrential rains that washed out county roads, county culverts and flooded areas. The highest elevation in Smith county is 671 feet, we are at 610 feet. So the water drains FROM us TO somewhere else. What a happy accident. LOL


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## Baymule

T.O.R. the pasture in the back ground is part of a 1,000+ acre ranch behind us. It is high-wire fenced and contains exotic deer, some horses and is parameter fenced with no cross fences. His fence is offset from the property line by 3 feet and he has 2 feet of wire laid flat, hog ringed at the bottom, all the way around it, to keep coyotes and dogs from digging in. Him and his wife are real nice folks, community minded and just good people.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day,when we were repairing our creek we had to address the problem of debris taking out our boundary fence.

What i developed was a system to "trap the debris"up stream using two different types of trap.The first is at the inflows to the creek proper and is a loose arrangement of tree branches and the other in the creek proper is a line of posts in the ground about 3 ft deep.As you can see the debris is trapped and when the rain stops it just falls to the ground.The posts are 3 ft out of the ground and it cuts the water speed by about half,which assists in limiting damage to the stream bed during heavy rain.I think it is better to catch the rubbish well up-stream of the fence,although in your case you could trap any thing that makes it on the other side of the road away from the fence


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## Baymule

That is a brilliant idea! I could have used that at our old property. But now someone else has it and it is not our problem anymore. The gulley we have now starts on our property, so the velocity of the water is nowhere near what we had to deal with in the past. But about 15 acres over, it is a force to be reckoned with, producing flash floods.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you BM,the final photo is "proof of concept" as there is no Debris in the boundary fence. Traditional thinking is to install barriers which once are topped do not reduce water speed or they install a concrete "flume" which in fact concentrates the flow and actually increases the volume and speed of the flow.I saw an example of this only this week where the ACT govt was attempting to repair an erosion gully which has been developing for over 100 years.What the "experts" fail to understand is that the speed of the flow needs to be controlled before it enters the the drainage line proper...T.O.R.

BTW on the chicken thing our hybrids have just started laying for there third season,we purchased a new lot today to replace them once they are laying fully.


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## Baymule

I see a bunch type grass in your pictures. What kind of grass is it and does it perform well for you?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day BM,most of our pastures are of Native sp origin except where previous owners have tried to introduce improved sp with varying degrees of success.The tussocks are a local sp Poa Labillardierei,it produces a heavy thatch and will shade out other sps ,when in the Spring it flowers the sheep will consume the new growth ,but that's all ,so we have taken to "burning" it in the winter to promote the maximum of new growth and to let  the light in on the other sps surrounding it.It's great  cover for lambing ewes and provides protection for young lambs from the freezing winds we experience...T.O.R.


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## Eteda

very softly, gently and kindly I say.... Their are bracelets that adults can wear, that can not be taken off, to give away their location if they go astray.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, we have had to new groups enter the flock,last week at the sale we were able to purchase some B H stud ewe lambs ,they were consigned in a group of wethers ,but I asked the agent to separate them and to sell separately. We got them for $100.00 ea.I will post a pic or two next week.The second are a group of W H Dorpers,made up of a ram, 4 ewes and some wethers (which are off to the sale Wednesday),12 in all they were too big to all fit in out trailer so the rest are coming next weekend.The photos are as they arrived and the girls and the ram "cleaned up",note because its "way" colder down here as compared to where the came from I just took off the "rough".....T.O.R.


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## Bossroo

Your transformation flock is well on its way. Are  the Dorpers in your area more of the range ewe type that I see in our Western US Stares ? The Dorpers comming from the US back yard breeders look similar to yours from the sale yard.   Here the Dorpers from the large farms  appear more meaty, more square and well sprung ribs, and have shorter legs.  On the most meaty type purebred Dorpers that I see here , their body structure is somewhat reminesent of the original South sheep of 50+ years ago but larger . The Dorper sired lambs are taller, more active and vigorous on the range and as such they put on meat and finish that is much superior to the range Suffolk x wool bred ewes' lambs. (Google Dorper sheep in the Western US to see some photos of ram sale as well as photos of large ranch Dorper sheep on their ranch flock promos. ) What are the weights of the Dorper sheep comming from the sale yards ?


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## Baymule

You got them for a good price. You are getting your flock built up. For a shedding sheep, they drive me nuts with all that wool hanging off of them. My ram is always shaggy looking.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day Bossroo,in the time I have been observing the sales of Dorpers at our markets they range from small store lambs to old mutton sheep.There are in fact only a couple of buyers of these type of sheep at our sale and as with all the stock they "manage" the prices paid,that is unless a "new" buyer appears who is not part of the gang.Prior to us entering the market for ewes there was almost "no" interest in ewe lines.

I think the longer whites are because down here most farmers  use the new breed over an existing flock,from memory the Dorpers came to Western Australia first and spread East.Many of the studs locally only run small numbers and they treat it more as a "beauty contest" rather than strive for the most "efficient animal" for the job.It's possible that a little more Van Rooy or starting from a Border Leicester base could account for a "bit more leg".Personally I like a bit of bone under my sheep and an animal that has a decent "stride".

The B H's are to me a "hardier" animal and can convert lower value forage into meat far better than even our own Suffolk's can on our type of country.Some of the wethers we got this weekend are very square in the front(pic's later) and it is something we have "never " aspired to because of the problems in birthing.It's likely we will use an infusion of Suffolk as a terminal sire to keep the lambs manageable at birth and to slightly change the "texture" of the meat (but that is something for the future).

Recently I heard a good piece of advice on the raising of dorpers,"Keep them pregnant,make them forage and don't feed to much protein."The wethers we got seem to be quite happy on being fed Acacia scrub until they go on Wednesday.Another observation on the stud ewe lambs we got, they much prefer to graze on the short open grass rather than the courser pasture the others prefer.....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

B M.those sheep in the first pic had "never" seen  a handpeice and the "boys" were 1 X and "strong" as ox's.T.O.R.


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## Mike CHS

They are amazingly strong for their size.


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## Baymule

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Recently I heard a good piece of advice on the raising of dorpers,"Keep them pregnant,make them forage and don't feed to much protein."The wethers we got seem to be quite happy on being fed Acacia scrub until they go on Wednesday.Another observation on the stud ewe lambs we got, they much prefer to graze on the short open grass rather than the courser pasture the others prefer.....T.O.R.



On the "keep them pregnant" would you run the ram with the ewes, or introduce the ram after weaning the lambs?


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## Bossroo

Bay,  Commercial Dorper breeders strive for 3 lamb crops in 2 years. Keeping a ram with the ewes full time will cause more problems than solutions as in extra labor and lower prices for the constant uneven sizes of the  lambs  being born out of plan.  There are quite a few Dorper producers with large flocks in Texas,  just google Dorper sheep to find them.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day B M,I suspect in the arid zones the native herders run the rams all year round,but with regard to the young breeder ewes I would separate them and run them with a couple of old grandmothers to learn the ways of the flock before returning them beck to the flock at about 15 months old.It's funny they "never " forget who mum is and I often observe 2/3 generations with lambs at foot in the flock.

Pic's.1/2 are the boys after a "haircut".34&5 are the stud ewe lambs we purchased.


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## Bossroo

TOR,  one of my neighbors has a flock of 50 mostly Suffolk x ews as well as Ramboulet, and Correidale ewes.  For the breeding season he puts in  a mature Suffolk, a 2 year old Barbados, a 3 year old Ranboulet , and a 7 month old Black Head Dorper that was easily half the size of the others. Come lambing time fully 70  % of the lambs born were sired by the Dorper. All of the lambs were born smaller ( not asingle ewe had any difficulty giving birth) than the lambs sired by the others, but were much more vigorous and outproduced the other in rate of gain, then were heavier at market ime,  as well as brought a much better price at auction, since they were ready to be processed instead of being sent to a feed lot. Something to consider.


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## Baymule

VERY good looking ewe lambs! BIG butts! LOL

@Bossroo I have read and studied the 3 lamb crops in 2 years as well as 1 lamb crop per year.  Most people seem to prefer breeding once a year. I know I am a very small shepherd but I want to learn all I can. I am leaning toward the 3/2 lambings.


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## Eteda

The Old Ram they are absolutely beautiful.  I see some great mamas their. doropers, katahdins,barbados and  st croix will all breed out of season. You can get two lamb crops a year if you feed them. Of course your heard has to be small enough to be manageable and feasible.  My 13 year old dorper lambed twice her 12th year. however only producing one lamb the second time (Lee Lee) and not much milk. there for she has been retired. She will now be a bell sheep, and honor amongst my herd. Since I keep my rams separate I do not cull any ewe put to retirement. They are the baby setters for orphans and comforters to the infirmed. They also become the church sheep for live nativities as the pregnant ewe heavily by december cant travel. With the orphans they have the patients of a grandmother and experience the orhans need to learn. They teach the lambs to drink water, out of the pond too. They teach them to be weary of dangers. The lambs follow the older experienced ewes willingly. All you have to do is go out with your bottle lamb in to the pasture and follow that old ewe calling our orhan to keep up and rewarding it with a few sips of milk. Stay on her tail with in 10 feet or less of her as she grazes to and fro, up and down the pasture. When she lays to chew the cud lay with her teaching the lamb. it only takes a few days to teach the lamb which ewe to follow. Each old Ewe has a bell with a distinct tone. The lamb learns the tone and knows where the ewe is in relation to the herd. She will keep up with that ewe and that ewe will inadvertently raise that lamb for you if you will just feed it. Thus the orphan lamb can be put with a few ewes that have lambs the same age along with the old ewe. a creep pen built out of wood pallets can harbor food, salt, minerals and water for the lamb in the loafing area even if their is no barn. A source of milk can be put their for the lamb to nurse on through the day when you are at work. Within a week the small herd can be put back in with the main herd. however I keep the main herd in a small pasture by the barn to make things easier for the orphan lambs. Don't forget to cuddle and hold your orphan if it is a ewe lamb. The old ewe wont do that for you. If you want her to be a good mama and love her lambs, you must be a good mama and love her. The more you love her he more she will love her lamb. in this photo valentine 2/14/2007 ten years old still lays her head on her first born lamb 9 year oldLeapsy  2/29/2008 just like she did the day she was born. She has probably had around 30 lambs or so before being retired but I sold all but her first one.
most ewes really love their lambs. 

 valentine and her last lamb of Oct. 12, 2015



Mia twins ewes at 13 dorper and still in good flesh with lots of milk. they are 6 days old.


Im not sure how old Mia actually was. She was given to me with her two twin daughters that were born in 2005.
her daughter Ree Ree and the third lamb little bit of 2016 at age 12 also.



little bit and her 2017 lamb.


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## Baymule

@Eteda that is putting old ewes to good use!


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## Eteda

*The old Ram, 
have you used the long range injectable moxidectin yet on your sheep? I so want to try it on mine but it is not hear in the us yet. I cant wait until it is. Im watching and waiting on it. if you have, does it burn when you give it and what is your opinion of it. how does it compare to the liquid. what athletics or combination is your favorite and why. *


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## Eteda

yes bay muel. I still have the first two sheep I started with. val was 3 days old and Ena was 4 months old. It will be a sad day when they go. However I plan on becoming a old retirement home for old ewes that can live out their last days in lush green pastures. I decided this year not to breed any more and have already sold my main herd ram a couple months ago. I still have the 2 1/2 year old st croix cross. but I keep him separate. Id like to trade him to someone for a couple banded rams just to keep the girls happy when they come in season. garth was a big nice ram. he was 202 lbs.


kennan I haven't weighed lately hes still growing hes gotta be over 150 though.



He has filled out and grown since I sold his father. My herd will just be pets for now. Ree Ree weighs more than the young ram. I think 187 when pregnant.



fay is my tallest ewe and lambed triplets. she put 8 lambs on the ground in 17 months. she tripled then twined then tripled again. that's from the breeding date of the first set of triplets to the lambing date of the third lambing and the second set of triplets. hear she is cleaning Joy.


a bucket full of joy!!!  uh maybe a tractor scoop. LOL

 Joy pregnant with her first. usta lay in the scoop. but cant seam to fit.



she cant fit in her old house either. shes obviously in labor and did not sleep well the night before.



Joy teaches her lamb to lay in the scoop. while ree ree and lee lee lay near.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you Eteda for you contribution,your love and respect for your flock has been rewarded by its productivity.For myself I'm "not" a fan of retirement plans for livestock as it takes good productive land out of production.I was not aware of injectable moxidectin,my concern would be the 130 day withholding period for meat.In the main "worming problems" are a result of "management" and low levels of worms should always exist in livestock.I try to avoid "blanket" de-worming except at times of extreme risk of an out-break,ie,shortly after the Spring and fall break.In the Spring I use Cydectin plus Tape for the lambs and normal Cydectin for the adults.In mid Summer I will use a narrow spectrum Barbers Pole /Liver Fluke and after the Fall break I will use normal Cydectin anywhere in between I use a white clear combination only on "effected" animals.For externals I "back-line" at shearing.

Of course Bossroo you are correct in your statements on commercial range land operations,because of the labor costs involved and even when we were breeding only 300 ewes it was preferable to bulk lamb.But its your individual market which determines how you proceed,currently we only need even lines of about 20 hd in lambs for our marketing ,what is more important is the "timing" as apposed to the numbers.The focus in the new flock will be a more controlled delivery of stock for the markets because of their ability to "season" out of season.I have no doubts about the fertility and "keenness" of the Dorper rams in getting the job done.The reason I want to use the existing Suffolk genes is there is resistance to the "denseness "  of the Dorper carcass which is reflected in its eating quality when compared with the typical English Shortwools which supply almost all of our domestic market.The photo is of some ewes which were a Dorper ram over Suffolk ewe and these ewes went back to the Suffolk ram this year and the resulting meat will be interesting when the time comes(although out of 9 lambs so far 7 are ewes)...T.O.R.


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## Goat Whisperer

@Eteda when I can I will post about the long range. I'd stay far far away from it. Terrible for small ruminants!!! Perhaps start a new thread on it?


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## Eteda

goat whisperer I speaking of long acting moxidectin not long range ivermection. even though in the same family ivermectin is not for sheep. I do not use it. never have. vet says it dont work. ivermection having a 30 day and cydection having a 90 day residual action on some worms it doesn't seam logical for sheep. It works good for goats they say but not for sheep. I've seen the results first hand on a friends herd, where I obtained my first orphan lamb. when they saw my sheep they stopped using ivermectin and started using cydection.   I use cydection in my sheep per my vets directions. but I think If i could use the long acting moxidectin I would only have to worm my herd once a year maybe some of the young ones twice. If my sheep are not bred, or sold or consumed for meat its like you worming your dog. It doesn't effect any one but their health and me. I will bury them hear when they pass. I've done the no antibiotics no wormer grass fed lamb for market thing. and I've marketed to the different ethnic groups locally. I've sold direct to the butcher , from the farm. Ive sold for herd replacements. Im tired of it. Im tired of the marketing period. I want to rest. I want to retire my whole herd and just have them as pets. today I walked with them and turned them in to a new pasture. its good to watch them run. buck and play with delight even as most are over 8 years old.


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## Goat Whisperer

Can you post a link?

There is another long range cattle dewormer that has caused a lot of issues…


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## Eteda

www.wvs.com.au/media/custom/upload/attachments/508e0b65177d3.pdf

Cydectin Long Acting Injection for Sheep contains moxidectin, a second generation macrocyclic lactone. It is effective against sensitive strains of the following parasites and provides protection against severe challenge by Haemonchus contortus (barber's pole worm) for up to 4 months.


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## Eteda

Goat Whisperer said:


> Can you post a link?
> 
> There is another long range cattle dewormer that has caused a lot of issues…


 hope that link and picture shows up. Im much better at farming the computing. LOL


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## Green Acres Farm

https://www.wormx.info/longrange


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## Eteda

it is funny how they mention the use for the longe range just for meningeal worm for camelids since their it doesnt work on them any way. but they say nothing for its use for  sheep or goats for this purpose even in a lower dose. the herd my very first sheep came from in 07 was if you will resistant to ivermection. the article mentions moxidectin as the one exception for resistant build up. its been 10 years. my herd, same ewes, same pastures, started with 2 ewes and a ram. bought two ewes in 09  one in 2010,nothing was bought or brought in since 2010. every thing including the rams were born hear.  *80% of your worms are in 20% of your herd. If you can identify this 20% and target their worm burden you may not have much of a worm problem at all.* it will always be your old. infirmed. really young or your most timid. *however if you have a small enough herd to separate these few at feeding time you can build their natural resistance and lower your worm burden even lower. because it will be 20% of that small herd in stead of 20% of the whole flock. it is not easy. but I find if I separate  the ewes at night into an area that has unlimited hay, salt, minerals and a lick tub while feeding up and turn them back in with the main herd in the mornings it is a lot easier. Hear the lambs are in the creep area seperated only by a cattle panel and a wood pallet. they have 24/7 access to the area. they have toys and night lights to encourage its use along with salt. minerals. baking soda. water, hay and a lick tub. 

 *


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## The Old Ram-Australia

THE NEXT STEP:getting together a gene pool.G'day,so over the last few weeks we have purchased genetics for the new flock.Because of the "big dry" prices for mature aged(as far out as Sound month) ewes have come within our price range.We have in the main purchased stud or full blood females for under A$100.00 per head.

Currently we have 6 un-related lines of females and 3/4 of un-related males for a total of about 40 + head.This is a good start for us and we can now proceed on a very selective  basis.It will be in the early part of 2018 before we sell the majority of our Suffolk's only retaining a small group (about 20 ewes ) and a couple of rams to produce terminal sires for the new flock.

The Suffolk as a terminal sire should go some way to overcoming the denseness of the Dorper meat for the local market which is predominately English Shortwools with their good eating qualities.We may sell some lines "over the hooks" so we can get the "feed-back data" from the processors. The new groups are settling in well in spite of the fact that they came from flocks which were predominately "hand fed",they have also quickly "discovered" our mineral mix and line up with our "home bred" stock for their share at the water points...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

By "big dry" I surmise you mean a drought. Sheep are being sold because of a drought, what age are these ewes? What would the price be were it not for a drought?

Do you have buyers for your Suffolks or will you take them to auction? I am glad that you are keeping a small flock of them. You worked hard to develop their genetics and it would be a sham to look out over the pastures and not see any of them.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day Bay, the "dry" I refer to is not yet a "drought",but if we do not receive rain in the next month I'm sure it will be declared for our district.Our main worry is the state of our stock water ,with some of our "dams" now dry and so we have to open more gates than I would in a normal season so the stock can access their daily water needs.The new group is being watered from our house supply at the minute,but this cannot go on much longer.I do have a paddock with sufficient water but I really wanted it to rain first before I grazed it as it has a "very low worm burden".The same is for the Suffolk's who almost all have lambs at "foot".
On the subject of the disposal of the Suffolk flock,once it rains I do not anticipate any problems,earlier this year I advertised about 30 ewes on a web site,they all sold overnight and I was still getting inquiry's a week later.They all sold for the asking price "no questions asked".The reason for keeping a select group is explained in the earlier post and it will only be a days "shearing" to clean them up each year.I had to smile when you said about"looking out over the pasture and not seeing them".All I see is a heap of "shearing or crutching",and all this will evaporate with the "new flock"...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day Bay, I forgot to address one of your questions.Breeders are adopting different approaches,some are selling the "bottom" of their lamb drop while others are selling the older end of their breeders.In the "mature group" I will look at anything with a "sound month",because we will get at least 2 lamb drops from them and then they will go over the hooks as mutton.

In the stud situation ewes can command upwards of $200.00 and rams tend to start at $400.00 but can easily cost $800.00 for the best genetics.How does thast compare for prices in the U.S.?..T.O.R.


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## Baymule

A registered Dorper or Katahdin ram sells for $200 to $1,000 but mostly in the $400-$600 range. I have not priced ewes. I bought my 4 Dorper/Katahdin ewes, bred to a Katahdin ram for $220 each and thought I got a bargain.


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## Mike CHS

Our ram was pretty typical of what the market is going for quality breeding rams and he was $600.  Registered Katahdin ewes here are going for $4-500 for really good stock.  I think it is high but it is being paid so it is what it is.  Unregistered ewes here are going for $300 for really good stock or run of the mill can be had for $200.

Ram lambs for butcher are going for $250 in our area and they average around 120 pounds right about now.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, those prices are really interesting.We sell our "cull"ewes for $150.00,which is about twice the "killer price.We sell selected rams for $300.00 which is 4 times the "killer price".So far the most I have paid is $100.00 for "stud ewe lambs".The least I have paid is $55.00 for ewes with Good Sound Mouths.I think that over 50% are in lamb by the look of them....T.o.R.


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## Baymule

I don't know what auction prices are, the prices I quoted are all by private sale.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

The prices quoted are all current private,except for the stud ewe lambs which were at auction...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

MOVING FORWARD with the new group.So far we have purchased 30 mature aged ewes of which 3 have lambed for 5 lambs.

There is a big difference between the Suffolk's  and the Dorpers when it comes to lambing,because we have bred the Suffolk's for so long they accept the idea that from time to time I will be wandering around the flock and new lambs,whereas the Dorpers let you know from the "get-go" that you are "not" welcome in the lambing paddock.So today I had to move most of the "new" ewes to join up with the rest of our home-bred Dorper X's.I took Max with me on a long lead  so they did not feel as though they could escape as I guided them up the hill and through the two gates to the next paddock.I was surprised just how quickly they "mingled " with their new "friends" and after a couple of hours the old hands had led them to the water-point and the mineral mix containers which they had a taste of and later on came back for another go while watering closer to dark.

There are signs that the rams has spurred them into "seasoning",that is the ones who are not already well in lamb,about half I suspect.They will in the next few days go into a new paddock which has a large stand of Poplars and another deciduous sp which are just starting to "break" after winter.These trees are vicarious suckers and I suspect that they will tame the new growth without doing any damage to the thicket which is great summer shade and shelter for them....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

CAN YOU OFFER SOME HELP AND ADVICE?I know there is a vast repository of knowledge in the group and so I would like to "tap" into it in the transition of our flock.Here is the problem as I see it.

All of the W H Dorpers I have seen are white hoofed  and this can be a problem over time on "wet" country.Our black hoofed Suffolk's have never had a problem with their feet and so I would like to breed black footed W H Dorper ewes.The obvious answer is to use some B H rams ,but this will I'm sure compromise the long body of the W H's.So are there any of you who have  had experience in this area,or perhaps you have a friend or acquaintance who has traveled down this path and may be willing to assist me with the benefit of their experience?

At this stage my thinking is to use a Suffolk ram over the W H ewes to see if I can induce the black hoofs in the lambs,then put them back to the W H 's and retain any ewe lambs which retain the desired change of color along with the "shedding" of the Dorper breed.I'm sure in all the years you have been breeding sheep this idea has crossed your mind and perhaps you have done some breeding experiments,if so ,what were you outcomes and results?

I am impressed by the ability of the Dorpers to graze forage which the Suffolk's were reluctant to eat and I think with a little help from myself they will "control" some of the problem sp  which inhabit our farm.

I will be most grateful for any comments, opinions and references you can provide ....T.O.R.


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## Bossroo

TOR...  You will have to be prepared to do some very close inbreeding and severe culling that will take quite a few generations to accomplish.  Your best bet will be to contact a very reputalble University with a Animal Science department that has a professor that does genetic research with sheep for assistance.  When I was working at a University we needed a line of mice that were virtual clones , it took us 27 generations of breeding an already inbred line of mice then  breeding father to daughters and then to the female offspring bred back to their grandfather, and great grandfather, etc. , with severe culling of the majority of the offspring to finally get consistant results.  I wish you the best of luck !


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thanks BR,I was hoping it would not be as complicated as that.At 75 my future in the sheep "game" is surly limited ,so I hoped that by retaining any black -hoofed ewes and from their lambs "sell' everything with white feet I could at least generate a basis of the flock with the trait I am looking for without compromising any other aspects of the animals.

Anyway ,when the flock is settled in and when most the Suffolk's are gone I will have a couple of years (i hope) to play-around with the idea...T.O.R.


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## frustratedearthmother

Just because it "might" take that long doesn't necessarily mean that it will - says the eternal optimist!


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## Bossroo

TOR, your plan is a good plan and you will see some success fairly soon.   But genetics is pretty complicated as what genes are dominant, co-dominant , recessive, modifier , or a gene needs another gene to express a characteristic , a gene is a new mutation, etc.    On and on for each pair of genes. Keep in mind when you whant the dark hoof, you will also see other inherited factors that travel along with a trait that you may or may not want to continue, then you will want to eather select for the additional trait or select to eliminate it out. This is how a new breed is established. Keep it up, genetics is fun.  Just for fun check out the color inheritance of lady Gould Finch or the Parakeet to see possibilities of what is possible.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thanks BR,I am not worried about color in the skin which may come with the black hoofs as at this point the skin of the Dorpers has "no " value at the sale-yard.But I do wish to retain the "length" in the W H's along with the anticipated texture change in the meat from the Suffolk's...T.O.R.


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## Bossroo

What exactly do you mean about the "texture change " in the meat from the Suffolk ?  It is also interesting that there is  " no " value to the Dorper skin in the sale yard in Australia.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thanks BR,early on I became aware of the fact that Dorpers weigh heavier than the normal 2 X meat lamb of the same size it seems due the the way the Dorper packs the meat on the carcass.I suspect that much of this is genetic based on the evolution of the breed but also it reflects the "type" of country they are grown out on.The big Dorper runs are in what used to be referred to as "wether" country,which (before the crash) was wool sheep ,desexed males run exclusively for wool.In one of our major supermarkets the two types of meat are marketed quite differently in the Meat Case.Only traditional lambs are cut and packed in-store ,while the Dorpers are processed and Cryovaced in a central processing facility.I have spoken to people who have experienced both and detected a difference and they certainly had a "preference " for one or the other.

The" skin value" is an important part of the value of the sheep to the processor and the skin value will often be referred to in market reports on regional sheep sales. Depending on the market at any one time the skin can return $40 +to the buyer in "dead wool" and the raw skin.Much like wool processing almost no skin processing is carried out on-shore and so the value is determined by the world market at the time.I think it was our processors who developed the idea of "everything but the baa", they have markets for everything including ,eyes ,brains, tongues,cheeks,tails and testes.In today's market with wool up around $12/15 a kg and a 30 kg carcass cutting 2+kg of wool on which they pay "no wool tax" it's a good little money earner.

The wool on the Dorper skin is seen as a "cost" rather than a return and it I suspect "dumped" as there is no market for it in the Aussie system.Because we produce upwards of 20 million lambs a year and only a small proportion is shipped out" live "on boats carrying 100,00 head at a time and every market is price sensitive so the price paid at the auction is so variable and so small producers like me have to meet a very narrow target to maximize my profit,hence the focus on the Cost Of Production in out operation...T.O.R.


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## AimeeDx

Don't know that much, but where I live (QLD, Au) our dorpers with white feet are very good. We don't have to trim them because they naturally file down in our land, but never get too short.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day AimeeDx,because we are transitioning to Dorpers your knowledge and experience could be of considerable help to us.

I assume you are in Central Qld? are you a cattle as well as sheep operation?How long have you had the Dorpers? What was the reason you choose this breed?....T.O.R.


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## AimeeDx

Hey TOR,
I'm not a big sheep farm, just a small hobby farm, for our family's use. We brought because they conveniently self shed, and for their reputation of a delicious roast! 

We had 2 meat cows, they were in our property for about 10 minutes max, one was found 1 month later, and the other around 5 months later, we thought we would never find the latter again!


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## Bossroo

TOR,  what exactly is the detected difference in the Dorper meat vs. the traditional lamb meat ?  Why the preference for the difference ?   My father in law would not eat lamb because he said that he could taste the wool. I susspect that the lanolin levels in the wool breeds has something to do to impart that certain flavor.   But , he even had seconds , then third servings at  one of my BBQs where I butchered a brocken mouth ewe,  aged the carcass, then marinated it and BBQed it whole in a pit.


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## Pastor Dave

Bossroo, you're invited to my next barbecue.


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## Baymule




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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day,well Boss ,I guess its what you grew up with in regard to taste.I recall once having a "chat" with an Indian store owner whose customers were Asian or from the Pacific Islands,the Islanders "flatly" refused to eat Aussie lamb and he was importing frozen lamb from NZ to service this part of his clientele.
Don't worry Aimee the bulk of farmers started on a small farm (our first farm was 5 acs) that is unless you "inherited "it from the family..T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, here is a link to the latest stud sale results for Aussie Dorpers..T.O.R.
http://www.theland.com.au/story/495...il&utm_term=0_ade9099b1a-4450cf6c13-114560001


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## Baymule

Out of my price range!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Mine too Bay,but you need to understand how the stud system works.It's likely that the genetics of this ram was not available in the eastern states.So the price was driven by the top studs to acquire them.The successful stud will sell lambs and semen at a premium price to the other top studs.these studs will sell rams to the next lower level of studs and these studs will sell to the next level all the time claiming a link to this one ram.The next level down will also claim the link ,which by then is "so" diluted it can hardly benefit the buyers of "flock rams" to use in commercial flocks.The thing is everyone will put a "premium" on the link however obscure ....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Just like horses. Any famous horse that can be claimed to famous lineage  automatically makes the nag standing in front of you more valuable as if it already knows how to be the top cutting horse, barrel racer, race horse, roping horse and so on. While in reality, the claimed famous ancestor's genetics are so far back on the registration papers that it makes no real difference. I see well bred registered horses with papers on the Facebook sites "saving" horses from slaughter.


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## Bossroo

The value of a sire is that he contributes his genes to all of the offspring that he produces and hopefully the resulting offspring are of better quality  therefore they will bring a better price in the marketplace. So he is valued at fully one half of the herd or flock. If you own high quality ewes , you want to use the best sire that you can find so that you can sell his offspring for a even higher profit.  If you have average quality ewes, you want to use the best quality sire that you can find to improve future quality of your flock. All boils down is a quest for profit or more meat on your table from each lamb.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Of course you are right Boss,especially in the first instance and even the second X,but at what point does the success of the sires genes become a matter of "luck"?T.O.R.


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## Bossroo

Not even all ram lambs produced by the high quality ram will be of enough high quality to be used for stud duty. It all depends on what genes they inherit.  Improve your " luck " through severe culling of the ewe band every year and then buy a high quality ram to compliment or improve the flock even more. Being satisfied with the flock one currently has  is the fastest way to mediacrity over time.


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## Baymule

Well said Bossroo. I just took my ram to slaughter along with wethers, last Friday. I am going to up grade to a better ram. I've said all along that I bought "learner" sheep. I bought a decent ram, not great, but decent. I have had 1 lamb crop from him and the ewes are heavy bred right now. As I go along, I will upgrade to better ewes. It is a work in progress.


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## Reindeermama

I have enjoyed reading this thread. I am so sorry for your news -The Old Ram. My mother had Alzheimer's, and I took care of her for about 15 years. She took Aricept. I think my spelling is wrong on the name, but it seemed to help with the symptoms for some time, at least until the last 4 to 5 years. It still helped. My heart is with you.
I am thinking about raising  St. Croix hair sheep. They are supposed to be resistant to foot rot, and more resistant to parasites. We have decided to raise these because they will graze some of the weeds on our property to help ready the pasture for Dexter cows, we also want to raise. Supposedly we can put the ram with the Dexter's when we want to isolate him. We are going to divide the pastures into 1 two acre, 1 seven acre, and two five acre paddocks for the sheep. The other seven acre is being left in brush and open for wildlife(quail and deer). They are fine boned and supposed to be fine textured and dress out at 23% more meat. However, they are not as big as other hair sheep breeds.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day to you all ,sorry I have been a bit lax ,but Jenny and I have both had the terrible "flu" going around down here in spite of us both having our "flu" shot.Jenny is OK ,but I have a lingering cough which is "driving me mad".

Another 4 of the new Dorpers have lambed along with a few Suffolk's which had gone to a X-bred Suffolk /Dorper ram which "escaped" early in the season.The ewe lambs will be a handy addition to the new group.Now our Suffolk's are a "free spirited lot" and we recently sent 9 of them off to the sale ,but it seems that the Dorpers can be "quite hard " on the fences and a group of them followered some Kangaroos into next doors place.This has caused me to put some thought into our current fencing which was a combination of mesh(Ringlok) and 7 strand wire which now has to be up-graded to contain the new flock.We had trialed a new plain wire design  to limit the damage from Wombats (9 plain wires),but I am moving to 3 HT barb and 7 plains to not only keep the flock in ,but to limit the damage from the wildlife (I will post a photo of the new one when the first section is complete.).

Sheep unlike Goats (who look up and tend to jump)look for an exit on the bottom of the fence, so any damage done by roos or wombats is an immediate target for escape.If you can imagination a 80 kg roo travelling at 30 mph hitting a fence where the wires are fixed at each steel dropper the damage is considerable,so to reduce this I thread all the plain wires through the holes and use wherever possible a special "clip" on the barb so the force is taken at the strainer and stay at either end of the strain.If you have Dorpers what is your experience with fencing?Bearing in mind that ours are "not pet sheep" and are handled as little as possible to encourage the natural behaviors with regard to mothering and foraging.

Thanks RM,I will update Jenny's condition after she sees her specialist at the end of the month.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Kangaroos and wombats?  That is so far from my reality that I just have to laugh. We have white tail deer, which jump fences or crawl through. They really don't damage anything. But we have feral hogs which are terribly destructive. They plow through fences, root up pastures and hayfields, destroy crops, kill and eat fawns, lambs, any small animal they can catch. We haven't had any on our place, but they are all around us.

So sorry that both of you have had the flu, glad that it is just about gone. I hate being sick! Hope your cough goes away soon.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day,I forgot the odd visit from foxes and wild pigs,but further West the farmers also have Emu's, camels, buffalo,wild horses,deer and wild dogs.So we are pretty lucky in some respects.The new fence wire layout I am considering maybe effective against pigs I think,it requires permanent fencing with HT barb strained to over 150 kg and the plains at about 200 kg anyway as I said I will post detailed photos once it is constructed.Meanwhile I am adding barbs to our existing fence layouts....T.O.R.


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## Bossroo

TOR ,  when you have barbs on your fence wire, mysteriously wool will soon cover the barbs mostly in the same places, but soon other areas of wool covered barbs will appear.  Put an add in the real estate section for bird housing for free building material and Lady Gould finches, Cockatoos, parakeets, etc will asnwer your add in droves.  Soon you will have free labor for wool removal as well as weed seed control.


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## Baymule

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day,I forgot the odd visit from foxes and wild pigs,but further West the farmers also have Emu's, camels, buffalo,wild horses,deer and wild dogs.



LOL! You have waaay more problems with animals than we do! Some areas have bears and cougars, but thankfully we don't have them here.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Rest In Peace my old friend.Today Jack left the farm to go to the big stockyards in the sky, like the true gentleman he was there was no fuss, he just slipped away quietly with no stress or pain.

 Tomorrow I will lay him to rest under a big old gum tree near to the shearing shed so he can observe the goings on for the years to come.

My friend and mate for over 15 years, no more will he have to muster cranky mobs in frost and sometimes snow or be out in the paddock when it’s almost 40 C. Instead the weather will always be “kind” and there will be lots of time just laying in the shade of the shed.

But Jack lives on by way of his son Max and I’m sure he will do his dad proud as he grows in confidence and maturity.T.O.R.


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## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear


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## frustratedearthmother

So sorry for your loss.


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## Baymule

Awww..... I am so sorry that you have lost your friend. There is such a deep love from a dog that makes me wonder whatever did we do to deserve such devotion. They bring us such joy and it hurts so bad when they leave. I am glad that you have his son, Max.


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## Bossroo

TOR -  I am so sorry to hear that Jack has left your farm to go to work at the big stockyard in the sky.


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## Mike CHS

Those kind of dogs never leave you but they do leave a void.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you all for your remarks and support.It has been a "tough" couple of days but it has been made easier by your posts of support.

In the next day or two Max will have to step up to the mark and show his "stuff".We have had almost 20 mm of rain and the daytime temps are such that the worms will start to explode on the pasture. I will post how he performs in his new role as "head dog".

Ruby is in "pup" and is starting to "show",I always look forward to her new litter...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

The dawn of a new era as Max takes over as the” main man” in the area of handling of the stock chores.

His first task was quite considerable. In a split paddock of about 20 acres, his first job was to get them all into one the closest to the alleyway leading to the shearing shed. The size of the “mob” is quite large and certainly the largest he has had to deal with so far in his career ,it consists of about 100 ewes with their lambs along with about 30 maiden ewes ,by far the most easily “spooked” when being driven.

Once through the gate into paddock closest to the gate the mob strung itself out about 200 mts wide by about 50 mts deep, it was Max’s job to keep them all heading towards the nominated gateway which involved exercising “cover and control” as the mob was inclined to split into two or three groups. Max has learned to observe my hand signals when I direct him to “Go Back”, he will cast to the edge of the mob and “stop” until the sheep “turn away “ from him towards the ultimate destination. But in the meantime the other flank has turned downhill away from the gate, calling him “to heel” and then sending him to the other flank to turn the stock back towards the gateway, in the meantime the other flank has turned away again I call to him and with a “wave” of my arm he is away at full pace to re-gain control of the group again. This exercise of stock “cover” continues until they see the open gate and the older ewes lead the mob through the gate into the long narrow section which leads to the shed and yards.

The sheep seem to understand Max’s in experience in the job and so he is challenged by a couple of older ewes and a few of the maidens, which break past him and head back down the alleyway, I call him to” heal “and walk down to the back of the rebel group and start to work them back up the slope towards the rest of the mob. The action of the old ewes is repeated another twice before he has control and they move towards the yards where they will stay overnight and in the morning I set up a “drenching race” and draft off the lambs for “marking and tagging”.

The job takes me til after midday and the ewes and lambs are left to find each other before being turned out onto feed and water.

All things considered Max handled the task with more skill and confidence than I expected of him at this stage of his working life. During the job I had Ruby on a lead with me as her skill set is not in the paddock, but when the mob is approaching and in the yards, but because she is “well along now” I do have to be careful “she does not get a knock”.

His next challenge will be to move the Dorpers through 4 paddocks to a new lot of grazing which will happen around the weekend.


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## frustratedearthmother

So glad to hear that Max is stepping up!  Overcoming those challenges will surely help his confidence and he will get better and better at being the main man!


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## Bossroo

For Max


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you all.In this post I would like to return to the subject of the new fence.Yes Bossroo, wool and barbed wire do not mix,down here it is normal in a 3 barb 4 plain fence to have a barb mid-way which is just the right height for either of the two rubbing problems we face they being sheep lice and "grass seed".Grass seed is by far the worst as the two main Native sps use wild-life as a means to "disperse" their seed .Shearing "seedy sheep" is no fun,even though we do not have "burrie country".
The new design will have 3 barbs on the bottom as our change to the Dorpers means that any wool is carried high on the body if at all. the other 7 strands will be medium tensile H/T plains (because I find the straight H/T difficult to tie off at the strainer posts).I find that on a reasonable length strain it is better to strain from the center of the run as it creates a more even strain over the whole length.I also find it easier to tie off both ends first as maintaining the correct tension around a strainer post and at the same time tying if off has always presented difficulty.It also means that you get a smooth finish without tags or sharp edges (I will take a few photos when the job begins,on both the system we are using now and the new one)......T.O.R.


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## Devonviolet

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Rest In Peace my old friend.Today Jack left the farm to go to the big stockyards in the sky, like the true gentleman he was there was no fuss, he just slipped away quietly with no stress or pain.


I'm so sorry for your loss, TOR!  Your tribute brought tears to my eyes. 

I know Jack was a special dog, the likes of which don't come along all that often.  I know he will be sorely missed!!!


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## greybeard

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day and thank you all.In this post I would like to return to the subject of the new fence.Yes Bossroo, wool and barbed wire do not mix,down here it is normal in a 3 barb 4 plain fence to have a barb mid-way which is just the right height for either of the two rubbing problems we face they being sheep lice and "grass seed".Grass seed is by far the worst as the two main Native sps use wild-life as a means to "disperse" their seed .Shearing "seedy sheep" is no fun,even though we do not have "burrie country".
> The new design will have 3 barbs on the bottom as our change to the Dorpers means that any wool is carried high on the body if at all. the other 7 strands will be medium tensile H/T plains (because I find the straight H/T difficult to tie off at the strainer posts).I find that on a reasonable length strain it is better to strain from the center of the run as it creates a more even strain over the whole length.I also find it easier to tie off both ends first as maintaining the correct tension around a strainer post and at the same time tying if off has always presented difficulty.It also means that you get a smooth finish without tags or sharp edges (I will take a few photos when the job begins,on both the system we are using now and the new one)......T.O.R.


T.O.R. have you considered using gripple t clips for your terminal end ties? They work on both barbed, barbless MT  and HT wire.





I agree with straining from the middle of the run (we call it 'gut stretching" around here  and that has become my preferred way to tension both barbed and barbless wire..again, using gripples.




Never again will I use a comealong or golden rod to tension wire. I just 'thought' I knew what 'tight' was..
You can pull the moon out of orbit with that gripple tool, fast and easy for this old man.


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## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> T.O.R. have you considered using gripple t clips for your terminal end ties? They work on both barbed, barbless MT  and HT wire.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with straining from the middle of the run (we call it 'gut stretching" around here  and that has become my preferred way to tension both barbed and barbless wire..again, using gripples.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never again will I use a comealong or golden rod to tension wire. I just 'thought' I knew what 'tight' was..
> You can pull the moon out of orbit with that gripple tool, fast and easy for this old man.


WOW!!!  Those are awesome!  I bet they are spendy, though.  Is there anything like that for woven wire?


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## greybeard

The regular in-line gripples will work on woven wire when placed in the middle of the run too.
Costs? Not much if you value your time and your fingers.

The key to using them properly is the tool.



I got mine from here but I think there are/is at least 2 distributors in Central Texas now:
https://www.farmfencesolutions.com/


(I do not sell these nor otherwise make any kind of revenue, income, compensation  or profit from any of the tools, procedures, products or instructions I may post about)


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day Greybeard. yes I have used both,but I gave up on the end ones because the casting in the legs did not withstand a heavy impact and they "snapped -off",I over came the in-line ones coming loose after an impact by tying off each end of the protruding wire.For about 20 years my "go to man" for fencing was Neville Prince (now retired),if you Google Neville Prince fencing there are heaps of video hints,tips and tricks.The hard part about holding the strain when tying off ,my solution is to tie off both ends and strain in the middle.This series of photos illustrate how I do it.    I have another 2 but I have to post on next post..T.O.R.


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## greybeard

TOR, I haven't had a gripple slip or fail yet, but I haven't used them very long but, I have  pulled the HT in half using the tool in the picture. 
I have not been bending the ends back or wrapping them around the stretched part of the wire. If it does get loose and sag for some reason, I want to be able to put the tool right back on that end and pull it some more.


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## Baymule

Thanks a lot y'all! (sarcastically)  NOW that we have finished fencing our place, y'all trot out these cool Gripple things!  I never knew about these things!


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## Latestarter

They do look quite amazing... Did a little searching but haven't been able to find the cost for all the various little parts... Seems like the costs will add up. GB, how expensive does it work out to be as compared to the old fashioned way of wrapping wire?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, here is an example of a "nifty" little clip for HT barb,if you fix it off to each star picket and it goes "slack" you have to undo the whole strain to re-tighten .They cost me 30 c ea delivered by the 1000,fixing them off is actually "quicker" than tying off with tie wire,IMO...T.O.R.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> They do look quite amazing... Did a little searching but haven't been able to find the cost for all the various little parts... Seems like the costs will add up. GB, how expensive does it work out to be as compared to the old fashioned way of wrapping wire?



About $1 ea. The tool is fairly expensive too, tho as I always do with everything, I average that cost out over it's lifetime. 
Tractors are expensive, posthole diggers are expensive, barns cost a lot, headgates and squeeze chutes ain't cheap compared to the old fashioned way of roping the animal, throwing it and doing the work with the rope snubbed off to a tree. 
I recently bought a pair of these, which cost a lot more than 2 2x6s with bolt holes drilled in them, but they'll last me a lot longer than the 2x6s and are a LOT easier quicker to use.
http://www.kencove.com/fence/Woven+Wire+Accessories_detail_TSC5.php

T.O.R. Aus..I haven't seen those available here (or the posts with holes in them) but Ken (a cowman and retired vet over on CT from S.E. Queensland) did reccomend something called clipex that is gaining popularity there. Lots of good ranching innovations coming out of Australia and N.Z. over the years. 
http://clipex.com.au/media/catalog/...5fb8d27136e95/c/l/clipex-standard-post-04.jpg


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day Bossroo,If anyone is interested in the clips I will post details , which can be ordered with a poly insert to "hot wire " the fence .( he is not on the internet though).All of our "star posts" are manufactured with the holes to match all of the fabricated mesh made down here,but in reality you have to run 3 plains to support it top, middle and bottom to which the mesh is stapled to limit the damage from roos and wombats,so I just opt for a mix of plain and barb instead.
I have looked at the "clipex",but they are way more expensive than the standard posts.
Here are some photos of a fence gone wrong,a wombat burrowed alongside the strainer and undermined it with this result.


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## Baymule

I guess the wombat could be compared to the badger. We don't have badgers around here and that suits me just fine.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day,so a few weeks ago we found out that a Wiltipol stud was going to disperse their flock through our regional livestock sale.Today we turned up to see if we could buy a ram or two and maybe some ewes.In the run-up to the sale most of the stock had been sold privately off of the farm,so there was a yard of rams and a yard of ewes offered and I had a word to the agent and he agreed to sell the "pick" of the rams and then offer the balance,bearing in mind the rams on offer were stud quality and were all AI with no natural mating.We were the winning bidder on the pick and took the two we felt were the best at (wait for it) $151.00 ea (which was the value of the meat only),now this studs rams sell for over $1500.00 at the big breeder sales.The yard of ewes (7 in all ) two of which look as though they could be in lamb cost us $117.00 ea which was the value of the meat once again.

We now have 3 distinct breed lines along with the Suffolk's to develop a "Composite" lamb for sale in the future.The moral to the story is don't discount your local livestock selling center when you are looking for new genetics for your flock,if you can spend some time there ,ask your agent to keep a "lookout" for lines /breeds which may suit you...T.O.R.

P.S.  I will post some pic's tomorrow of the "new sheep".


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## Baymule

What a bargain! You sure did good on that one! Can't wait to see pictures of the new sheep! Congratulations on the great buy!

How is your wife doing? Does she enjoy going to the sales?


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## Latestarter

What a fantastic turn of events for you. Congrats! As Bay said, would love to see a few pics if you'd be so kind. (Had to google Witipol stud...  )


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, here are the pic's first two are of the rams and the others the ewes.

Jenny really enjoys the sale its like we used to do many years ago


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## Latestarter

Very nice. Those are some handsome lads  They look really healthy/good.


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## Baymule

You got some VERY nice sheep at an unbelievable price! 
I am glad that Jenny is enjoying the sales. I pray that you get to keep her for as long as possible.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, for the last few days I have been bringing the "new flock" into the house paddock for a fresh pick under the watchful eye of myself and Max.He has really taken to the idea of "control" v/s driving the stock to a destination.While he was there he "caught" a small rabbit which he consumed on the "spot".He seems to understand the hand signals and the "go-back" and "stop" commands once the stock move in the desired direction.

This paddock contains some trees mainly Radiata Pine which we planted about 15 years ago by have never pruned along with some English Hawthorn.the photo shows them quite enjoying the English Hawthorn...T.O.R.


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## Latestarter

Your pasture grasses seem to be in reasonably good condition there. They look quite content.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, the grazing is in the house paddock,its about 2 acs and the part they are at is the
wild section" at the bottom of the garden.We have a "pretty relaxed" approach to the lawn(more a wild pasture) which is all Native grass and we mow it on average twice a year,once before Xmas and after the fall break(if we get one).The trick is to let it run to seed and then mow because the plant does not have the desire to reproduce again.The rough nature means that all manner of birds come to feed on insects or seed ,whichever is available and once seeded is only about 4 ins deep,low enough to see any "wriggly "visitors.''T.O.R.


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## Baymule

The new flock is a nice looking bunch. We don't have a planted yard of grass. It's sand, a little Bermuda, sand, wood chip mulch to keep the sand from blowing, and more sand. The back yard is fenced and is sand with some overeaten Bermuda. We use the back yard to wean lambs. LOL I totally get your relaxed approach to yard work. We just turn the sheep out.


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## greybeard

What season is it there now? Late Spring isn't it?
Decades ago I visited Melbourne and it was quite cool for July--upper 40s if I remember right.. 
I've always understood being south of the equator your seasons are opposite N America..


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day GB ,yes Dec 1 is the start of Summer.It could be a "tough" 3 months since the rains failed in both Winter and Spring.

BM,we aim for 100% grass cover over our whole 300 acs,currently some of it is pretty short,but all we need is 50/100 mm of rain and we will be back in business as the ground is a little damp after to 56 mm we had last week and the soil temperature is right now for growing good grass..T.O.R.


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## Baymule

We planted winter grasses, rye, fescue, clovers and chicory. They are sprouting now, have to keep the sheep off until there is enough growth for them to eat.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day BM,is it the case that you have to plant each year for summer pasture?In our district almost all of these sps would be regarded as perennial?Is the snow so deep that they do not survive over winter? I don't recall just how big your farm is ?Do you grow feed for over winter or do you have to purchase all your requirements?..T.O.R.


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## Baymule

We have 8 acres, about half wooded. The soil is sand, like beach sand without the ocean. We have worked to clear briars and brush. I have planted perennial grass seed, it came up, but the soil is so poor with no humus that the sand dried out and the seedlings died. The winter grasses grow well, but die in the heat. In the links below, I show how we are spreading wood chip mulch for humus on our sand. There is a gas pipeline right of way that goes the length of our property. It is seeded with the winter grasses now, but in early spring we're going to let the horses and sheep graze it down hard and spread the mulch. I intend on sprigging Bermuda grass as much as I can on the pipeline. We've planted Bermuda seed twice to only see the summer heat bake the sand and cook the roots.

We don't get much snow, when it does snow, it's usually melted and gone in 3-4 days. 

We have dug Bahia and Bermuda grass (summer grass) off the side of the road and sprigged it. It will survive better than the summer grass seeds.

Pasture #2
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/making-a-pasture.36612/

Pasture #1
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/i-hate-green-briars.33715/


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day BM,you have a really interesting situation to deal with,firstly the use of "wood-chips" ,which in themselves only provide little nutrition to grasses(I would think?).The bacteria which break it down needs to be fed.How much wood chip is available?
Do you stable your horses at night on straw bedding ?What about the sheep are they barned at night as well?
Here is how I would approach your problem of the Summer dry,do you have an open fenced paddock of say "half an ac or so",if so I would create a series of furrows with say a plough across the prevailing slope,half fill it with wood chip,cover with partially decomposed well manured stable bedding,soil cover (thin) more wood chip.To my mind you need to hold the moisture "below" the surface ,the stable manure will provide the food supply for the decomposing bacteria,which will be a food and moisture source for the roots of the grasses as they grow ,the surface wood chip will help "cool" the surface until the grass is thick enough to hold surface moisture.
I make "no guarantee" it will be the complete answer,but it is worth considering and perhaps others can add to the discussion...T.O.R..


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## The Old Ram-Australia

BM, further to the above,I am curious what happens when the snow melts,is it absorbed into the sand or does it "run-off' and leave your place?T.O.R.


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## greybeard

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> BM, further to the above,I am curious what happens when the snow melts,is it absorbed into the sand or does it "run-off' and leave your place?T.O.R.


T.O.R.
BM lives not too far North of me. Appreciable snowfall in SE Texas is very very rare. I had 1 day in which a couple of tiny flakes fell last winter..none at all the previous 3 winters. 

Agree, that the trick to get sandy 'soil' to retain moisture is to incorporate organic material INTO the soil and not just on top of it.
Forests do a great job of creating rich composted soil from fallen vegetation, but it takes years and years for the decomposed layers to build up. 
I assume BM has had soil analysis done and knows what the pH is and is taking steps to make it right for the forages she seeks.
E. Texas soils are notoriously low pH value (acidic) and it has to be corrected toward a more neutral base...usually with lime.


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## Baymule

The wood chip mulch is already pretty much composted. We caught a high line crew cleaning the right of ways in our area and asked for the loads of wood chips. They were happy to bring us some and the crew foreman asked my husband if they could park their trucks here at night. They were here a couple of months and brought us near to 100 loads. It was combined twigs, chips, leaves and it worked up a heat with all the green in it. Steam rose off the piles.

The barn is open, the horses come and go as they please. Straw is hard to come by in this area and most people use pine shavings. It might be hard to imagine, but pine trees are put through a large piece of equipment, and reduced to shavings. Pine trees are plentiful here. But since we have the wood chips, we spread them in the barn and let it mingle with the horse manure. Every few months we clean it out and spread it on the pipeline with the tractor bucket. Then we spread more wood chips in the barn.

We got a LOT of loads of pine shaving from a nearby horse event center in the fall of 2015 and spread it in the garden and what is now pasture #2. The shavings were over a foot deep. We put pigs in the garden for the winter and ran the disc over the garden to smooth it out after we took them to slaughter. It's been 2 years and I still find pine shavings that haven't decomposed. In the picture, beyond the garden fence is pasture #2 and where the pine shavings are is now sporting a nice patch of Bermuda grass from sprigs I planted last fall.







The sheep have an open 3 sided shelter they can get out of the rain or cold, but they mostly prefer to be in the open. They are currently in a dry lot with a round bale of hay, while the grasses grow. Our two Great Pyrenees keep them safe from predators.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you both for your reply's,our Granite based soils/sands usually run <5.5 and no amount of lime is likely to remedy the situation.(in-spite of years of trying by previous owners).We took the path of"least resistance" and rely mainly on the locally occurring Native sps along with the naturalized exotics and match our carrying capacity to match it.I would think with that much chip and the tannin in the Pine you would have a very acidic ground to work with.

So here is how I would approach it,set aside a paddock and calculate Lime at 1 ton to the ac,spread it and "rotary hoe it as deep as the machine will allow,the idea being to get as much of the mulch and the Lime into the soil/sand itself.During the next "cool season" broadcast a mix of oats/winter wheat and see what happens.I would graze it once mid-season and let it run to,"head" and then broadcast the grass sps you want to encourage.Bearing in mind you are not going to get "much production" for maybe 2 years ,but if it is successful repeat the process gradually over the other suitable paddocks.What do you think GB ,is it worth a try?
T.O.R.


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## Baymule

We've consulted with our local fertilizer/lime man. Can't get a truck in here to spread it, too many trees in the wrong places LOL. We are going to get a load in the dump trailer and I guess I'll have to spread it with the tractor bucket or throw it out by hand. Oh well, we're used to hard work.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day BM,GB asked about your soil test if you had done one ,did it show Aluminum levels? Were they high,on our Granite's they tend to be.The Lime will certainly help in this regard as a high Al will lock up certain minerals and the plants will not be able to access them,just a thought.T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, a couple of pic's of some of the New Flock as they grazed on the meadow around the house..T.O.R.


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## Latestarter

That's a really nice view you have there TOR. Bet it's nice when you can take a break and just sit down outside and enjoy it.


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## Baymule

What a pretty place.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you,I will post a couple of others when time permits...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, its been 12 months since Jenny's Alzheimer's was diagnosed and as some of you expressed "support" for me in my journey so I thought an update was in-order.Firstly ,the test they run each 3 months to me seems of NO value,as it depends on what frame of mind she is in on the day and how much help they give her with the answers.3 months ago they reduced the strength of  her meds  to reduce the side-effects.Physically she is down about 25% over the period but still insists on completing a job once she starts it,but it "knocks" her about the next day.A hard thing to deal with is her perception that everything on TV is just a repeat of the day before(I have got to the stage now where I just agree),she has become very sensitive to sounds and it always "scolding me" for banging things around.Her short term memory is completely gone at this point and the distance from the kitchen to the laundry is not achievable in remembering why she was going there.The mood swings have increased and I only have some sort of a clue as to what the day will be like is if she "wakes up" and smiles or just gives me a "hard look".A week or so ago she went for 10 days without a "meltdown" (it was heaven for me while it lasted).There is a local support group for carers but I have not been able to go as I'm sure she thinks it is some sort of exercise to put her into care.Our GP is a little concerned about my health as I deal with the situation on a day to day basis.But for me as long as I have the Internet,the sheep and my dogs I think I will be OK...T.O.R.


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## Latestarter

So sorry once again. It's terrible to watch and must be even worse as a sole supporter with no real long term help.


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## Hens and Roos




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## Mike CHS

I know you realize it but you need to make sure you are OK in order to be of any good to her.  I have been around this illness a couple of times and I don't envy your task.


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## Baymule

Our prayers are with you and Jenny.


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## Reindeermama

Dear Old Ram, is there any family that could stay with Jenny for a day or two to give you a break? I cared for my Mother, Aunt, and Father as a caregiver. I am an only child. It is so hard for one person to handle. Thank goodness, I had my daughters who are in their twenties to help me sometimes.

I watched a friend's grandfather deal with the same thing with his wife. It was so hard for him. 

Please take care of yourself too! My prayers are for you and Jenny.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank for your messages of support both on and off BYH. The problem is the stage that she is at which is complete denial as the severity of the disease.I do have support from both my daughters but as for getting away it is not an option at this time,but I find that the farm work (about 3/4 hours in the morning works well),plus I have the stuff on the Internet and of course my other family which is yourselves and we have a support lady from Alzheimer Aust and a phone support service if required.But all things considered I am coping pretty well I think..T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I think you are coping pretty well too. it is a sad situation all the way around. We are always here for you any time you need us.


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## Latestarter

We'll "try" to maintain our sanity on your behalf so when you come here it isn't worse than where you're already at... Feel free to visit and post as needed. I think most of us has encountered situations similar to what you're dealing with and will help in any way we can.


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## Bossroo

TOR  what you are doing is exactly what you need to do.  Keep posting if you need or want  any advice or help and we will be here.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day ,Hope you all have a great Festive season and I look forward to hearing from  you all in the New Year...T.O.R.


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## Latestarter

Thank you TOR. Right back atcha! Hope your holiday season is restful and relaxing and may the coming year bring you peace and prosperity.


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## Hens and Roos

same to you and your family @The Old Ram-Australia


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## Baymule

Merry Christmas to you and your wife and Happy New Year!


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## Bossroo

Frank , we wish you and your wife a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.


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## Mike CHS

I'll add my Best Wishes to you and your wife.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you for support ,our support lady from Dementia Aust came to the farm just before Xmas to see how we were going .She is a little concerned about the chances of some respite for me due to Jenny's resistance to anyone coming out to the farm but we will just have to see how things go in the coming months.T.O.R.


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## Hens and Roos

You've probably thought of this already but are there any good friends that Jenny is comfortable with that would be willing to come visit to help give you a break? 

I know my dad didn't like having "new" people stop in at our house to see how he was doing. Even with 6 of us helping him some days were better than others.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

THE SHEARING IS ALL DONE:This will be the last time for the Suffolk flock as they will all be sold now except for the 2017 drop of lambs which will be sold early winter for the boys and late summer for the girls.The total number of breeders was 170 head made up of 159 ewes and the balance rams,we have sold a couple of rams and we now have an add for the ewe flock up on Gumtree
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/braidwood/livestock/suffolk-sheep-eweflock/1172837171

So soon we will only have the new flock of Dorpers and the Wilti's to form the new composite breeding flock,this is going to be a new and interesting journey and a welcome break from the day to day chores around the farm.But as with everything the new sheep come with their own set of new challenges in the form of up-grading the fencing to keep them where I "want them".
My God it's been so hot down here ,it's going on two weeks of almost 40 C each day and it's something e are just not used to,the rain has eluded us and we are watering the sheep in troughs each day at least the air-con is "free " from the solar /battery system.

I allowed seven days for the shearing because of the heat ,starting early and finishing by lunch with the stock shorn,drenched,back-lined and back on feed and the wool pressed into bales,Then it was back to the air-con and a beer for the rest of the day.We have been so "unlucky" with local storms as they have all missed us except  at the minute when we are getting light showers,after a visit to Charlotte(my chiropractor) this morning to push everything back into place,I will be a new man tomorrow(lol) and should be good until I finish cutting the wood for winter.
Rosie and Meg are going along really good under the guidance of the two older dogs and they have been practicing moving the sheep up the lane to the yards prior to shearing....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

That's HOT! In the heat of the summer, we do the same, start early and knock off anywhere from 11:00 AM to 1 or 2 PM, depending. Then we go in, take showers and collapse. LOL

This has got to be bittersweet for you. You have put the work in on your sheep. Your flock is really nice. But I sure understand your need to lessen the work demanded by the sheep. I researched sheep breeds before buying. We bought our hair sheep when I was 60, so I knew I didn't want to have the work involved with shearing. You have had wool sheep for how many years? A long time, certainly. I hope all your sheep go to farms where they will be appreciated for the fine livestock that they are.

What is back lining?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day BM,we have been breeding our Suffolk's for about 20 years ,when we moved to our present farm we had been breeding Goats for about 20 years(all vars of goats )mainly developing a meat goat for the local trade derived from dairy female lines with the objective of a 10/12 kg milk fed carcass.But we found it was just "too cold" to continue it down here and the fox problem was horrendous.

"Back-lining",is the application of a chemical to control lice and external parasites.It works by preventing the lice from moving from one stage to the next,it is much better than the old shower dips in that the chemical is targeted and the operator is not "de-loused" as well.....T.O.R.


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## Latestarter

Glad to hear you're almost done with the old and well vested in the new. Enjoy that well earned beer in the AC and give your back a rest.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day,you know its"dry" when the Kangaroos come to graze the front lawn  in the morning.Since I took this pic we had 75 mm(3 ins) of rain ,even got some run-off into the dams..T.O.R.


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## Latestarter

You seeing the kangaroos munching your lawn/pasture is probably much like when I see deer here. I actually really enjoy having the wildlife around.


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## Baymule

I am glad that you got some rain. I'm sure the pastures appreciated it. Our dogs keep the deer away, but in the horse pasture where they are not allowed, a couple of does stash their fawns in there every spring.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, thought you might be interested in our fencing project,we have been working on the plan for quite some time now.We started with 2 x 40 AC paddocks and have transformed them into 9 paddocks along with an access lane for easy movement from the far paddocks to the yards.NOTE.The original permanent fence in HH was taken down.I estimate the total length is about 1.5 kms and the last bit in AA/BB involves a creek crossing which I will detail as we move through the job.

Photo 1 is the sat photo with plan ,original fencing is Black.New fence is in Red.along with a few photos of the fence itself which has undergone a few modifications as needed.The one shown is the design we are using going forward.

I'm sad to say that we lost Rosie in a farm accident a couple of weeks ago,but Meg is continuing with her education and I will post an update of her progress soon.T.O.R.


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## Latestarter

Sorry to hear about Rosie. Lots of fencing...


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## Baymule

Sorry about Rosie. It's a hard thing to lose a good dog like her. 

The fencing is looking good, it is a lot of hard work, but so worth it to make things easier. How is your wife doing? Prayers and Blessings for both of you.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you BM. Physically she is fine ,but the memory ,ability to process stuff has gone done by about 50% in the last 3 months she also has terrible "separation anxiety" which means that I have no chance to escape even for a few hours.The "meltdowns" can last off and on for days now which tends to wear me down somewhat ,but I get by having the sheep ,dogs and the farm work to get done.Still it helps with a couple of Single Malts each night before I start dinner...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Big hugs and give her one too.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

FARM UPDATE:G'day its been a while and really busy for the farm.The sale of the Suffolk is almost complete and the last lot are "earmarked" for a guy who wants to maintain the existing gene pool but cant take delivery until the Spring.In recent weeks we have secured some very nice lines at very attractive prices,one line of White Dorpers in-lamb and showing for under Au$80 delivered and a week later they have stared to lamb.We have also purchased a small group (7) of Wiltipol ewes to go with 2 stud bred rams we got a little while ago.Last week we purchased 3 stud bred rams (W H Dorper) at our local auction barn, we only had to "beat" the butchers on price ,which was not difficult.Today we purchased 2 purebred Van Rooy rams which will add to the breeding program.

We now have the basis of the new flock and the breakup is as follows.B H Dorper (3 ewe lines ,1 ram unrelated) W H Dorper(4 ewe lines unrelated,2 ram lines unrelated) Wiltipol (1 line each of ewes and rams,unrelated)Van Rooy(1 line rams ).The task now is to design a breeding program to X-breed the 4 breeds to maximize the F1 effect on each generation until we have a "stable " line of terminal ewes.
The water situation is approaching quite bad as we have not had any"runoff" for over 12 months now and several of our surface dams (ponds) are dry and others very low.The creek still has a very small puddle at the last structure and reflects the success of our restoration.We are constructing a new structure in the top end of the catchment and have constructed or repaired over 2 kms of new fencing plus 840 mts of boundary by a contractor.

I will post some pic's of the new sheep and the fencing when time permits.

Cheers and Beers.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

No rain for a year? Everything here would be dead, dead, dead. We had a drought in Texas in 2011 and 100 year old trees died. Grass comes back in a season, but trees? This 8 acres that we bought in 2014 still had standing dead trees from that drought. We have since had them all taken down, they were a danger. 






What is a Wiltipol and a Van Rooy? Are they a breed or a line of Dorpers? It certainly sounds like you are getting your breeding lines all set up the way you want them. I am glad that your Suffolk have found a good home where all your hard work on them will be appreciated.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, if you Google search Van Rooy Sheep  and Wiltipoll Sheep there is "tons" of stuff.On the subject of the "dry" in the last 12 months we have had a lot of old gum trees fall over, it just means we will never be short of firewood....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I like the Van Rooy sheep. They sound like they would do well in our western states, and in west Texas.

http://www.vanrooysa.co.za/?CID=2

The Wiltipol is an interesting sheep, bred and made for the rigors of Australia.

http://www.wiltipoll.com/australian-wiltipoll-association

Nowhere did I find a weight range for either breed. I can see how these two breeds with the Dorpers will make good lambs for you.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi BM,the Van Rooy is also a "fat tail" breed and so will appeal to Middle Eastern folk as well...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, in the recent batch of W H Dorpers one has produced a "brown/red headed lamb" in its set of twins,don't know the sex yet but I suspect its a "recessive gene" (hope it's a ram).Have any of you had a Red-Headed lamb?Here is a pic taken this afternoon.I have not seen one in any of the pic's as yet...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I have had several red headed lambs, but mine are mixed with Katahdin. If not a recessive gene, there might be something in the ewe's or ram's back ground to produce a red headed lamb. 

Black Angus cattle would produce red calves and now there is a Red Angus breed. Likewise, Holstein dairy cattle that everyone knows as black and white will also crop out with a red and white version. 

Enjoy your lamb, congrats on the twins.


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## Latestarter

Maybe your ewe was messing around with a Boer goat and that was the result?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, new photo of the Red Head,it seems as though it is a "regressive gene" from an ancient breed from Persia.They are still around and come as a Speckle or a Harlequin,he is a Harlequin....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Interesting. One of my ewes had one like that last year, sire was a black head Dorper, ewe is a white Katahdin.


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## Hens and Roos

very cute!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day BM, ewe lamb or Ram?How is it growing,is it as strong as the other lambs born that season?  T.O.R.


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## Baymule

It was a ram lamb, he was wethered for slaughter. I also had a ewe lamb marked like that, she is with the ram for breeding now. Her brown head has faded to a very light brown color, as did the wether.

Neither one's markings affected their growth. I am looking forward to Lucy's lambs to see what I get. She is in with a black head Dorper.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

That's interesting the "fading" of the color,don't forget a pic when she lambs.T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Picture taken yesterday, we cut down some little cedar trees. The sheep were munching down on them! Lucy is to the far left, still sporting her winter wool. It is coming out in clumps. As a lamb, her head color was the same as your lamb. You can see the faded color, it is more like a faint brown. Her mom is 3rd from the left, the black and white spotted ewe.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, in the last little while things have got a lot"tougher' down here on the farm,of our 10 water points we have only 3 which have usable water in them.We are also hay feeding the sheep every day now and Alfalfa hay is getting really hard to source so this week we purchased 8x4x3 bales with a fair amount of clover in it,weighted 550 kgs and cost $320.00 I figure it will last about 6/8 days because the protein value is so much lower than the Alfalfa.It's just lucky for us we were able to sell all of the Suffolk's before it got this bad.

The ability of these Hair sheep to hold their condition is amazing along with our management they are looking "better" than average,due to the nature of the way we purchased the flock they are still producing lambs (looking out the office window) I can see another new one last night and they are "so active" within a few hours of birth.We had a chap from a local agency up yesterday and he was amazed at how the sheep are going given the value of the existing forage and the small amount of hand-feeding we are doing and ranked our sheep as some of the best in the district in his view.

Oh well, its time to get the hay trailer out and get them fed ,then I have to go and "warn" all our neighbors within 2 kms that we are about to start 1080 fox baiting in the next day or so .

Cheers for now ...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I am glad that your sheep are keeping their condition, even in the face of drought and poor forage and hay. Kinda makes you proud of them doesn't it? Kinda makes you proud that you no longer have the Suffolks too, I bet. 

What is 1018 fox baiting and why do you need to warn the neighbors?


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## Mike CHS

I saw that when I was in New Zealand.  They set out poison but they try to maximize the fox kill and not the non-target animals.


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## greybeard

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Alfalfa hay is getting really hard to source so this week we purchased 8x4x3 bales with a fair amount of clover in it,weighted 550 kgs and cost $320.00


550 kg=1212lbs.
320 Australian Dollar equals
233.70 United States Dollar
Is that kind of hay always that expensive for that weight or is it because of the drought?


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## Latestarter

I thought you folks over there had a rabbit and mice problem... wouldn't the foxes help to keep them in check? Or do they prefer newborn lambs?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day,L S if you think like a fox, which would attract you the most, a nice warm meal tucked under a tussock of grass or an exhausting gallop through brush and fallen timber with no guarantee of success?

In answer to your question GB,in normal times you would be able to purchase this type of hay for around $180.00 per bale and Alfalfa for about $250.00 from local sources but this dry has been going on now for so long (in QLD some parts have not had decent rain for over 5 years),for us locally its been about 18 months.The lack of supply always creates a premium add to that it has to be hauled in some cases for over 1000 kms and pass through maybe two more hands before it reaches the farm gives you some idea of the increased costs ,but farmers have "no option" but to pay if they are to hold onto genetic material with generations of breeding behind them.

B M.1080 is highly effective in fox control,but "kills " domestic dogs if they come in contact with it.I am required "by law" to notify every neighbor within 2 kms of our place and all entry gates have to be signposted at least 24 hrs in advance of baits being laid.It has been shown that a fox will travel 7 kms to take lambs and if it happens to take a bait it will usually "die in its den".

The govt is now contemplating shipping wheat for stock-feed from the west coast of Western Australia by "sea" to supply livestock on the East coast of  Queensland(take a second to examine a map and it will give you some idea of the scale of the problem).You frequently hear farmers say "It will rain again and every day is one day closer"...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Do sheep farmers in Australia employ the use of livestock guard dogs like we do here in the US? I am speaking with no experience of the huge flocks that are run out west, but of my own limited experience on my small acreage. We are over run with coyotes, without our LGDs we would have no sheep.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Do sheep farmers in Australia employ the use of livestock guard dogs like we do here in the US? I am speaking with no experience of the huge flocks that are run out west, but of my own limited experience on my small acreage. We are over run with coyotes, without our LGDs we would have no sheep.


I can't speak for  Australia, but on the big cattle/sheep/goat ranches out in west and south Texas, the answer is 'very very rarely', and in fact, of all the 100s of ranchers and farmers I have met, worked with or for over my lifetime,  exactly 1 had a 'dedicated'  LGD, and that was this year and he is a BYH member.
by 'dedicated' I mean of the usual breeds, acquired mainly for lgd use and trained for that purpose.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day you make an interesting observation B M and G B's apply to down here as well .Almost 40 years ago we were "breeding" Maremma Dogs but generally speaking the people who purchased them for "goats" and the property's were "closer in" rather than the big runs out West.At that time almost half of our pups were purchased poultry whose owners had very expensive or "rare breeds".

To understand anything which is introduced I always look to the past and where they evolved and what type of management came with their use.The LGB's in almost every country were bred by "shepherds" who roamed the wild hill country of their birth and to my mind this is how they should be used in any new environment.I can't see a really successful outcome if after introduction to their charges you put them out in a paddock of 1000 acs visit them once a week with some feed .The dogs developed with human company and like all dogs their only wish is to please and be praised by their master...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Our two Great Pyrenees are valued members of the family. They both patrol our little farm, barking to warn predators away. The female, Paris is a killer of anything and everything that makes the mistake of venturing into her space. Last week she killed a copperhead snake, shaking it in two pieces. This week the male, Trip got bit by a copperhead, he "told" me the next morning and spent a couple of days laid in the floor. Now that he knows what copperheads are about, I'll bet he is more cautious.


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## greybeard

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day you make an interesting observation B M and G B's apply to down here as well .Almost 40 years ago we were "breeding" Maremma Dogs but generally speaking the people who purchased them for "goats" and the property's were "closer in" rather than the big runs out West.At that time almost half of our pups were purchased poultry whose owners had very expensive or "rare breeds".
> 
> To understand anything which is introduced I always look to the past and where they evolved and what type of management came with their use.The LGB's in almost every country were bred by "shepherds" who roamed the wild hill country of their birth and to my mind this is how they should be used in any new environment.I can't see a really successful outcome if after introduction to their charges you put them out in a paddock of 1000 acs visit them once a week with some feed .The dogs developed with human company and like all dogs their only wish is to please and be praised by their master...T.O.R.


When I 1st came to BYH, I started seeing the LGD references and thought"WTH are they going on about?" but soon came to realize it's mostly a small acreage/hobby farm phenomenon that doesn't carry over to larger tracts.  I knew my sister has chickens, b-i-l has had various poultry over the decades and now has hair sheep, have a niece that raises show rabbits and was into geese and guineas and nearest neighbor has a big variety of farm animals, are as close to true self sufficiency as anyone I ever met & they don't and never have had an lgd and I never met anyone here in Texas or anywhere else that had one until I was visited by a BYH member earlier in the year. 

 One of those 'economy of scale' things that doesn't carry over well from small to large operations I suppose, and I suspect it may also make a difference if one views their livestock as income producers/food source vs pets. I know it don't bother sister one bit to grab one out of the pen & wring a chicken or rooster's neck.

Here at BYH, it also seems to be somewhat of a cultural 'fitting in' thing. I often see someone just join, say what animals they have or plan to have and within a few posts, someone will say "Oh, You'll have to get you an LGD!!" when the new member hasn't even got an animal yet or built a stick of fence.


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## Latestarter

When I lived in CO, and even before I moved there, I went there every year, I spent a lot of time in the mountains, not just during hunting season. There were sheep leases in many places in national forest and BLM land and the sheep would be up at altitude during the summer. Many times I passed herds being moved along roads from one area to another, accompanied by LGDs. This wasn't a small number but in the many hundreds of animals. I've also seen many herds in pastures with dogs present. There is at least one rancher that moves cattle around here in TX near me that had an LGD in the pasture with his cows. I only saw the dog with the cattle back when they were calving and haven't seen the dog since, but that doesn't mean the dog wasn't/isn't there...  

Might not be a "thing" here in TX, but they are used in other places by large sheep farmers.  I mean LGDs have been used for centuries. They have been bred to the task for centuries. I don't think it's just a BYH/hobby farmer thing. It's only in the past few decades that LGD breeds have become all the rage for non farmers who try to make them into pets... status symbol animals... or "big, bad, family guard dogs"... I've seen coyotes in my back pasture, multiple times, at many times during the day. I would have to guess they have also been there during the night. But I haven't lost a single goat to one. I suppose I could bring Mel back in the house full time and see what happens, but I think I'd prefer to leave him out there to deter the coyotes from jumping inside the goat's pasture fence for a meal.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, I go back to my last post about how the dogs evolved, in a large part of France each summer herders are employed and the take all of the sheep in the village for the whole of summer into mountain grazing and this is the key reason the dogs are "so" successful its the interaction between the dogs the stock and the shepherds that forges the successful outcome.When we had ours we were on just 25 acs but were driven "mad" by foxes and domestic dogs but once Juno took control we never had problems again.
...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,I thought you may enjoy an update on how "Henry" and I  are going.The learning phase for me (Henry knows it all) has been carried out on a 1 ac patch of rabbit warrens crisscrossed with vacant Wombat dens which we finally completed yesterday(just in time for the rain which is falling as I write to compact the whole area down).....T.O.R.


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## Latestarter

Gotta say, you and Henry look like a match made in heaven!   I feel bad for the rabbits and wombats


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## Baymule

Henry looks like he is a lot of fun to hang out with!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,today is a day of R & R (rest and reflection).It has been a few busy days on the farm of late as we needed to bring in the new flock and mark,tag the lambs and to drench the ewes after a number of unexplained deaths.So on Sat in the afternoon we (jenny ,I and the dogs ,all 4 of them) mustered up the flock and moved them slowly up into the yards so the task would be not so long the next day.We had set up a drafting race on one of the exits from the shed which the flock had to move past to be ready the next morning.Now this is only the third time the flock has been into the yards and moving them from bright sunlight into a darken area inside the shed was a frustrating task because as you would know from your own experience that sheep detest moving from a light area to a darker one.Anyway after much "yelling by me and barking  by the dogs" a few of the old ewes took up the challenge and started to move.(thank heavens for that ,and now I need a beer).

We awoke on Sun to a pleasant day and got over to the yards early to begin the task,but because we had some quite little lambs in the mob we had to get them into the race in small groups so I could "pluck" out the little lambs and band and tag the boys and tag the girls (we have decided to not remove any tails in the new flock).As we worked through the ewes it was apparent that since it had rained that the incidence of Barber's Pole had skyrocketed ,hence the sudden deaths. It would appear that the new flock has ,little or no tolerance to BP challenge,unlike the old flock,which after years of selection could "repel" all but the most extreme attacks (I do hope all the new owners appreciate the value of the work we did over the years).The old flock did not like the drenching ,but the new flock absolutely hate it right down to the 12 month old's and by the time I was finished and had the lambs re-united with their mum's in a small paddock adjacent to the yards to "empty out overnight",the dogs fed I was exhausted( and was in need of least 2 beers and a couple of whisky's  to recover).

Monday our youngest daughter came over to catch up and see how the farm was going it had been a couple of months since her last visit and at that time the farm was looking "pretty grim"(she lives about 1 hour away and we pop in whenever we are over shopping in Canberra).Her visit included a 3 km walk and inspection of the results of the recent rains and in spite of the "green" appearance in all but the most rested paddocks it would only feed the rabbits and kangaroos,still we had got some water in some of the dams,but hardly enough to get us through summer unless we get about a 100 mm more this month.

Last nigh I slept like a "log" and after the last few days exertions I am wondering just how long I can keep it up with one thing and another?Still the thought of giving up the farm is something I cannot even contemplate as the thought of moving into town with all "those people" would certainly be the end of us in a very short time i think .....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Keep doing what you are doing and die on your feet. Better than languishing in a hospital bed for months or years being fed through a tube. 

How is Jenny doing? Did she help you with the sheep? My bet is on Jenny staying healthier longer because of being on the farm and doing things there that need to be done. 

What size flock do you have now?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day ,well at least the grave is already in position.Yes, Jenny is a big help when it comes to the sheep,she was in control of the race and moving the sheep in the yards after they were done.

The total flock now is about 160 hd of which about 120 are ewes and rams.

With regard to the Landline "Wild dog" program ,I have contacted the TV station asking for a link that people in the USA can use.I will advise the result as soon as I have it...T.O.R


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## Latestarter

Glad to hear that Jenny is/was able to participate and help. Must be nice when handling them all at once like this to realize you won't have to deal with shearing them...


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, I thought while Jenny was feeding her chooks and dogs I would update you all on how she is going.

It's now 2 years since she was diagnosed for Alz/Dem and in the last 12 months her short term memory has failed completely and it seems to be extending into her mid-term as well .
I know she is aware that things are failing but attempts to extend extra help results in "push-back",although she does not say much I know she resents the fact that i have to do almost all of the grocery purchases,meal preparation and cooking.I try to get her to prepare a couple of things each week ,such as bake some Muffins or bake a Zucchini slice .

She suffers badly from "separation anxiety" and I cannot leave her out of sight for more the about 10 min without her starting to search for me and when I find her she naturally"blames me" .
Her specialist increase her medication recently as she seems to be able to cope with the 2nd lowest dose,I now track her "bad days" and try my very best to not trigger a meltdown if I can as it can come with a degree of violence but so far it is restricted at me only.She is very sensitive to anything that draws my attention away from her.The other difficulty is that in her eyes everything on the TV has been on before ,often she says its the very same program every day and so my moments of relaxation watching something I have recorded can be interrupted time and time again.Her specialist suggested that perhaps she should be on "something" for her anxiety",but I don't want her "drugged" on an ongoing basis.We have a therapy session each day if I can doing "weeding" in one or other of or sheep paddocks ,but her physical strength is slowly deserting her and concentration on a task (like in the sheep yards) means that as soon as she pauses in a task she forgets what it is and so we stop while I explain it again.All of  this make tasks take 3 times as long as it should,but that's life. T.O.R.


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## greybeard

It's heartbreaking to see happen. Just went thru it to it's end this last fall with my brother in law. Everything you mentioned,it was the same with him.  He could not stand to be away from my sister for very long,even if he was with another family member.

He never forgot to eat*, but often would not recognize he was thirsty or know he needed to stay hydrated. We all had to watch him about that..keep him drinking something.

*No, he always remembered to eat but often forgot he had _already eaten_ and wanted to eat again, swearing no one had fixed him anything to eat, even when his empty dirty plate was still sitting in front of him. 

I do think it goes much better when Alzheimer patients stay engaged with some kind of physical and mental activity as much as possible for as long as possible.


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## Rammy

So sorry to see what shes going thru. I know it takes alot of strength and patience on your part to be there for her and protect and help her. She is lucky to have you. I know its very hard dealing with that and how mentally and physically exausting it can be for the caregiver. Are there any support groups that can help you? I cant imagine how tough it must be for you. Jenny is lucky to have such loving partner taking care of her.


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## Latestarter

So sorry to hear... I know you're doing all that you can, but remember that you have to take care of you too.


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## B&B Happy goats

You dear loving man, your wife is so blessed to have you by her side.....It is extreamly difficult  to care for your loved one as their mind fades away.....while you are able to remember  her as she once was... you are having to care for her as she now is.... I hope in the moments of fustration that you face on a daily basis, ...thoese wonderful  memories  of  your   life together give you stregnth, patience,  and the health to continue on with your lifes journey together


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## Baymule

You said, that's life. I say, That's LOVE. Bless you, my prayer for you both.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you all for your kindness.I do think it is important to talk about the illness as I am sure that at least some of you will exposed to it via partner,relative or friend in your lifetime such is the occurrence of it in today's society.

I do have very good support in some ways but much of it I cannot take advantage of yet.We have our youngest daughter who lives 1 hr away and actually did a uni course so she could understand the process and likely outcomes.I also have access to a 24/7 hotline if I need to discuss problems,I also have a support person who I can call on with just a phone call if the need arises.Recently on the advice on my support girl I left Jenny with my daughter for about 2 hours  while I had a chat and a look at the local hos;ital setup.The conflict that arose lasted fro almost 24 hrs and I won't attempt it again in the near future....I suspect that Jenny is afraid that if I am away I am "plotting" to send her away ,years ago we went to see her sister who had been put into care way to early as far as I am concerned because her husband and family were not committed enough to her care and when we chat about it,all the reassurance I offer is forgotten soon after but her worries remain.

When I visited the the care unit in the local hospital I came across a farmer neighbor of ours,his wife and family had put him in it would seem rather than take care of him at home .We had a nice chat for about 15 min and he confided to me that he was never going home or would see his beloved farm and cattle again,I am determined that this will not happen to jenny while ever I can cope with her.

Oops she back.bye for now .T.O.R.


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## Rammy

I so wish I could give you a big hug.


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## Mike CHS

It may not be a lot of support but I hope you know that everyone here is pulling for you.


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## greybeard

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> .I suspect that Jenny is afraid that if I am away I am "plotting" to send her away ,years ago we went to see her sister who had been put into care way to early as far as I am concerned because her husband and family were not committed enough to her care and when we chat about it,all the reassurance I offer is forgotten soon after but her worries remain.


That is one of the hallmarks of the illness. Some amount of paranoia.

I sometimes watched my b-i-l to give my sister a break or if she needed to go somewhere and do something she couldn't keep an eye on him every minute...he had a tendency to wander off. Every 20 minutes, he would ask "where's Joan?". (my sis's name) I would tell him, reassure him she would be back soon and what time, and a few seconds later he would say, "Oh that's right, I guess she'll be back soon". I found he did a lot better at their place instead of mine or one of his children's..............I live 7 just miles away and saw him a lot more often than they did, and he was even more comfortable, if we got in the truck and went driving around an hour or so and stopped to eat. He really LOVED to eat, but he was not overweight at all.
From everything I've read and seen, they do better for longer, if they can stay engaged with things they are familiar with, like daily tasks.

A kind of funny story..
About 2 years ago, I took him and my other b-i-l with  me to the sale barn just to watch.......he used to have cattle and I thought he might enjoy it. He sat in the back seat of my truck. As long as we were on the familiar roads, he talked up a storm, but as soon as we turned of the US Highway at Livingston, he clammed up. I made sure we sat in the back up in the upper seats and I did have to watch him about raising his hand while the cows were running thru the ring. Afterwards we drove a few miles away to one of those all-u-can-eat catfish places and ate a late lunch and then went straight home to his place. After I dropped them off my sis called me and asked if we had eaten anything and I told her we did and he got second helping and pie for desert...it hadn't been an hour between the time we left the catfish place and getting back home.  She said "Why, he told me he didn't eat all day long and all ya'll did all day was just drive around and 'round in circles." (I figured, he had somehow gotten 'us' confused with the stock running in and out of the ring.)

He was an electronics whiz back in the days of vacuum tubes and when transistors were something new. He actually worked for NSA  when he was in the military service, helping to eavesdrop on Moscow from Germany in the 60s and afterwards designed downhole electronic logging tools for Haliburton and Schlumberger. Had his own tv/radio repair business on the side and he was good at it. One of the smartest guys I ever knew....he could do anything.

I'm not much on touchy feely stuff or all huggy like but would sure like to shake your hand Old Ram.


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## Hens and Roos

My parents lived with us  for what turned out to be the last 8 months of my Dad's life as my Mom needed extra help...it wasn't easy and despite the challenges we have good memories.  My Dad showed similar tendencies as to which you mention.  Continued thoughts and prayers for you both


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## frustratedearthmother

My elderly parents lost their home in Hurricane Harvey and stayed with me for 5 months.  Hardest thing I've ever done in life up to now and the saddest thing was when I had to admit I couldn't do it anymore and found them a place in an assisted living facility. 

Mom was often confused and thought that my brother and I had sold her home out from under her and had stolen all their money.  It would shake me to the core when she would accuse me of that.

Dad was better at that point and understood that the home was destroyed - but was angry that he couldn't go home and fix it.  At that time he couldn't get up out of a chair alone.  Dads physical health got better under my care but both of them deteriorated mentally...stress and change will do that.  At that time stress and change were unavoidable and there was no way to ease it.

They would both wander at night, drop and break things, leave water running all night in the sink and would try to cook. I would find jars of peanut butter and loaves of bread in their bed.  One night I caught dad trying to go out for waffles.  He couldn't drive and didn't have a vehicle but he was determined.  He cussed me out for not letting him go even though I was in the kitchen crying my eyes out and cooking waffles for him at 2am.

At times they wondered when I was going to go home because they began to think that I was the one staying with them. 

These were people who had spent their whole lives trying their best to live a healthy lifestyle and for this ending?  Mom passed at 86 and six weeks later dad,  (89) followed her.

Being a caretaker is the hardest thing you can ever do and oftentimes there is no reward except for knowing that you gave it your best.

Hang in there because the ride is bumpy.  I've got nothing but respect for what you are doing.  Jenny is very lucky to have you in her corner.


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## Hens and Roos

frustratedearthmother said:


> My elderly parents lost their home in Hurricane Harvey and stayed with me for 5 months.  Hardest thing I've ever done in life up to now and the saddest thing was when I had to admit I couldn't do it anymore and found them a place in an assisted living facility.
> 
> Mom was often confused and thought that my brother and I had sold her home out from under her and had stolen all their money.  It would shake me to the core when she would accuse me of that.
> 
> Dad was better at that point and understood that the home was destroyed - but was angry that he couldn't go home and fix it.  At that time he couldn't get up out of a chair alone.  Dads physical health got better under my care but both of them deteriorated mentally...stress and change will do that.  At that time stress and change were unavoidable and there was no way to ease it.
> 
> They would both wander at night, drop and break things, leave water running all night in the sink and would try to cook. I would find jars of peanut butter and loaves of bread in their bed.  One night I caught dad trying to go out for waffles.  He couldn't drive and didn't have a vehicle but he was determined.  He cussed me out for not letting him go even though I was in the kitchen crying my eyes out and cooking waffles for him at 2am.
> 
> At times they wondered when I was going to go home because they began to think that I was the one staying with them.
> 
> These were people who had spent their whole lives trying their best to live a healthy lifestyle and for this ending?  Mom passed at 86 and six weeks later dad,  (89) followed her.
> 
> Being a caretaker is the hardest thing you can ever do and oftentimes there is no reward except for knowing that you gave it your best.
> 
> Hang in there because the ride is bumpy.  I've got nothing but respect for what you are doing.  Jenny is very lucky to have you in her corner.


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## Rammy

frustratedearthmother said:


> My elderly parents lost their home in Hurricane Harvey and stayed with me for 5 months.  Hardest thing I've ever done in life up to now and the saddest thing was when I had to admit I couldn't do it anymore and found them a place in an assisted living facility.
> 
> Mom was often confused and thought that my brother and I had sold her home out from under her and had stolen all their money.  It would shake me to the core when she would accuse me of that.
> 
> Dad was better at that point and understood that the home was destroyed - but was angry that he couldn't go home and fix it.  At that time he couldn't get up out of a chair alone.  Dads physical health got better under my care but both of them deteriorated mentally...stress and change will do that.  At that time stress and change were unavoidable and there was no way to ease it.
> 
> They would both wander at night, drop and break things, leave water running all night in the sink and would try to cook. I would find jars of peanut butter and loaves of bread in their bed.  One night I caught dad trying to go out for waffles.  He couldn't drive and didn't have a vehicle but he was determined.  He cussed me out for not letting him go even though I was in the kitchen crying my eyes out and cooking waffles for him at 2am.
> 
> At times they wondered when I was going to go home because they began to think that I was the one staying with them.
> 
> These were people who had spent their whole lives trying their best to live a healthy lifestyle and for this ending?  Mom passed at 86 and six weeks later dad,  (89) followed her.
> 
> Being a caretaker is the hardest thing you can ever do and oftentimes there is no reward except for knowing that you gave it your best.
> 
> Hang in there because the ride is bumpy.  I've got nothing but respect for what you are doing.  Jenny is very lucky to have you in her corner.


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## frustratedearthmother

There were good times during that period.  I learned so much about both of them in the early days and we had many great conversations. 

But, as horrible as giving up is - it's important to know when to _find a better situation for them than you can give them yourselves_. 

Their needs became more intense and they needed 'round the clock care.  I couldn't stay awake 24 hours, hold a job and take care of my husband (who had 4 eye surgeries during that time) along with a household and animal chores. I had to finally admit that I couldn't do enough for them at the end.   

I don't think TOR is at that point yet and will give his Jenny the best care that he can.   No doubt she will be better off staying in her element as long as she possibly can.


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## greybeard

frustratedearthmother said:


> He cussed me out for not letting him go even though I was in the kitchen crying my eyes out and cooking waffles for him at 2am.


Yes, unfortunately, that too is part of it. Lashing out in some of the worst ways at those that care the most about them. It doesn't always happen in every case, but it is not at all unusual and it will sometimes become a physical reaction from them. They can't help it tho..they have no idea and no control and just can't separate reality from the paranoia. Worse late in the evening and at night. Sundowners Syndrome. I saw that with my father as well.

B-i-l would walk around looking for his truck, when he hadn't owned a vehicle or had a valid dl in 2 years... then raise Cain at my sister for "hiding it from him".

Again from my personal observations and from what I've been told by healthcare professionals:
The patients often hide this kind of behavior from strangers or other family members. IOW, They act perfectly normal when someone else is around or when out in public.

It is a VERY complex disease.


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## Hens and Roos

greybeard said:


> The patients often hide this kind of behavior from strangers or other family members. IOW, They act perfectly normal when someone else is around or when out in public.
> 
> It is a VERY complex disease.



We experienced/saw this with my Dad on a regular basis especially when those not part of the normal everyday household came to visit, he was able to act perfectly normal....


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## frustratedearthmother

greybeard said:


> They can't help it tho..they have no idea and no control and just can't separate reality from the paranoia.


And they don't remember it 5 minutes later....


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## Baymule

My Mom lived with us after her stroke. I had to watch her like a hawk. I fussed at my husband one time because he was going to oil the squeaky hinges on the front door. Those squeaky hinges told me Mom was going out the front door. She would go out the door and start up the street, sometimes right out in the road. She snuck car keys out of my purse a couple of times and took off. I put my purse way under the bed after that, she couldn't get down on the floor. LOL I also finally had to realize that I couldn't do 24 hour care, I was exhausted. I put her in assisted living and visited her almost every day. The staff said no one else visited as much as I did. That was my Mom. Of course I was going to be there as much as I could for her. She died on Father's Day, my husband and I were with her, holding her hand and talking to her. She passed peacefully. 

T.O.R. you are doing the right thing. The love you have for your wife comes through the miles and across oceans in the words you write. Much is written about young love, but the real beauty is in the years and years of old love.


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## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> the real beauty is in the years and years of old love.


Truth!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,I am happy to report that our Xmas presents have arrived in the shape of over 4 ins of rain this month.We were going along pretty well but the other night we another 1 &1/2 ins which means we now have sufficient water for both the stock and house for the coming hot months.They are predicting we will get 30 c's + temperatures in the coming days which will spur on the grass groth which will be another relief as well as a financial one as well.

For those of you who have been "around" the site for a number of years will remember Penny's Xmas photo that I posted each year,well she is back .For those of you who do not know Penny was bred by jenny and purchased by her new mum and dad and each year they drop us a note and a photo (which we love getting as a Xmas pressie each year).BTW she is now 8 years old.

We would like to take this opportunity to wish you all "The very best for the festive season and like us look forward to the new experiences that will come in the next year."

Til next year it's "Cheers and Beers " from T.O.R.


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## Baymule

That is an adorable picture.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, attached is a couple of pic's of the new members of the team.Although I have a reference for "polls" last week an opportunity came along to secure this line of Wiltshire Horns.This is an old breed "tough as nails" good mothers and "shedders".They came from a farm where the owners and his dogs had "no idea" when it came to handling them,so they were a little "shocked" when Max was introduced and he proceeded to work them along a fence line and into the yards.At first they all stood facing Max stamping their feet and showing no sign of moving.Max just "marched" straight up to them and barked and moved across the group he then turned to come back across the face of the group and they turned away to where he wanted them to move.This exersice was repeated once a day for three days on the forth day they saw him coming and turned and walked straight into the yards without any resistance...Good Job Max...T.O.R


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## B&B Happy goats

You just have to love a dog that knows his  job well ! Good job Max


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## Baymule

Nice flock. You are steadily moving in the Australian Hair Sheep direction! You will come up with a breed best suited for your area. And we get a front row seat on watching the whole thing.


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## Rammy




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## Latestarter

I have to comment on how green it looks there in the back drop of the shots. You must have received adequate rain /water.  Nice score on the small group of sheep!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

g'day folks, since the end of Nov we have had over 7 ins of rain along with night temps in the high teens and daytime temps up to 40 c.In spite of the fact that our pastures had not had any Super/Nitrogen for over 25 years the way we manage our grasses are such that we can achieve a very good response when ever it rains.After the long "dry spell" and the start of the rain we locked up every paddock we could and will endeavor to run the paddocks through growth, flower and seed set to restore the "seed bank" for when the next "dry" comes along.

In a recent conversation a local )new to the farming scene) was told that the way to manage the pasture down here is to use every blade of grass produced in the spring/summer cycle and then "hand feed' the stock over winter (this advice came from the local rural supply store of course).I remarked to the partner that if you pursue this course in a short number of years all of your "best grasses" will be eliminated because the "seed bank" will be exhausted and only the poorest performers will be left.He hesitated for a moment and then said,"That makes sense" and as he wants to go down the path of rotational grazing on his 120 acs he thanked me for the comment.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I bet he did thank you for that advice. To his credit, he listened.


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## Rammy

Good that he listened. Proper management is what will sustain his pastures. The person who told him otherwise doesnt know what they are talking about. If more people learned to work with the land and not use it to the point of exhaustian, we might keep the earth healthier longer.


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## Baymule

Many land owners are just that, a land owner. Then there are those like T.O.R. who is a_ steward_ of the land and treats it like it as land is a living organism, which it is, instead of a larder of riches to be looted until there is no more.


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## Rammy




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## greybeard

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> was told that the way to manage the pasture down here is to use every blade of grass produced in the spring/summer cycle and then "hand feed' the stock over winter



Exactly what part of that is supposed to equal "manage"?
Manage his way into the poorhouse maybe, while lining the purse of the feed-N-seed salesman.

But, I see lots of people do it that way. They never plant or encourage a cool season grass--native or otherwise, or set aside an area just for that and they just feed hay on what is now bare ground that was also their summer pastures.

I'm guilty of it to some extent, in part, because I have to deal with all the high water leaching so much of the nutrients out of about 1/3 of my property. Had high water 3 times in 30 days Dec 2018-Jan 2019. The key to good forage and soil management is plenty of cross fences and gates for rotation, but water doesn't respect either of those.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day,  in the pic's the outside pic is actually in the yards,which is an indicator of just how much grass we have at the present.Just out of interest GB, where is the leaching taking place ,is it the top,middle or bottom of your farm?...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

@greybeard will be along shortly to answer that, complete with pictures. I won't "steal his thunder" on that, pictures say more than I ever could.


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## greybeard

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Just out of interest GB, where is the leaching taking place ,is it the top,middle or bottom of your farm?...T.O.R.


Take your pick.
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/hurricane-harvey.36636/page-38
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/hurricane-harvey.36636/page-18#post-517475
That of course was the once in 500 yr flood of 2017, but I get water on the lower 1/3 to lower 3/4 of the property several times per year. My land is flat, with no more than 5' variance from the lowest point adjacent to the river to highest points on the property where my house is located.
The problem isn't so much how high the water gets, as how often it happens, and the soil type and my surrounding area's plant life, and what it does to my pH. Historically, floods spread nutrients out onto a flood plain, but my floods are of such short duration, (usually 24-30 hrs) and because the water is moving rather than standing except for a very few  hours, that the water doesn't sit long enough for the nutrients and minerals in the sediment to drop out and be left on the top of the soil. Upstream, there isn't a lot of loose minerals and vegetative matter that can be washed down and dropped anyway. I am under burdened with limestone, but it's hundreds of feet below surface. Reading the old USGS soil types for my part of Texas, it's always evidently been this way for a very long time, as they described my county in a 1940s publication as "leached out", tho I believe in my local case, microscopic soil erosion is the main culprit as well as nitrate removal;  (NO3 - ), ammonium (NH4 +), and organic nitrogen takes place every time the water flows over the soil surface.. My average 'advertised' rainfall is just north of 55 inches, with real world rainfall closer to 60" the last few years.

And, my place is surrounded by a 163,000 acre National Forest of pine trees meaning the upstream water and even local rains coming out of that forest and  flow across my property toward the river are acidic, which plays havoc with the pH. It's a constant fight to keep the pH close to where I want it.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day GB,to my mind this "chat" shows the lengths some of us go to to "live the dream" of farming.From the way you speak your farm was originally part of a larger aggregation and was split to appease the descendants.Has it ever been discussed that the different blocks be reunited with all the owners benefiting from the profits of the whole farm?

Battling P H is a a war we all face in livestock production ,because in the main the livestock evolved in different lands and climate to our own piece of "dirt".

The main benefit of these sidelights to the main is that others in the group begin "thinking" about their own circumstances and these thoughts can the the beginning of "change" in the way they manage and pursue outcomes in the future....T.O.R.


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## greybeard

I'm the only one in the family that has any interest whatsoever in agriculture here at this location. My 2 older sisters (mid-late 70s) have other property about 5-6 miles up the road from me and the one that has some property immediately adjacent to me hasn't walked on it in 2 years and as far as I know, will never do anything with it.

None of my children want anything to do with this property other than fishing on it now and/or monetizing it by selling it when I'm gone. The only other person that had any interest was my twin and he died in late 2017. His part of it is up for sale by his children. (I have no interest in it, as it is all woods and I won't give them the satisfaction of paying their price for it anyway)

It used to raise some good crops. This is an old picture, probably from the 1970s or very early 1980s if I remember correctly. You have to look hard, but on the upper left 1/3
you can see a field of corn.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day GB,we are in a similar position,the two girls would be unlikely to move to the farm  and our son has be estranged for years and years .We do have one grandson who may like the idea and it is something I will consult him on at a point in the future..T.O.R.


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## Baymule

It is a sad fact that land is usually not appreciated by the next generation, and by the time a descendant comes along that would have immersed him/herself in the farm, it has been frittered away, the money spent and nothing to show for it.


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## Rammy

Yeah. It gets split up.in smaller farmettes for people who want to play farmer but dont want to spend the time and energy doing whats needed to care for the land to maintain it.  What a shame.


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## greybeard

Not exactly the way it always is. It does get split up, but it it rarely begins in small farm splits. Many of the very large family owned farms began being too valuable to leave intact back around the mid 50s and that trend has continued until today and will continue to be the norm. Most production farming today (and for the last 30 yrs) has been able to be done only by carrying a buttload of debt. Only way to clear out that debt is to monetize the land........sell it and it will always bring more $$ divided up into ever smaller tracts than selling it as one big tract. My own place was once nearly 1500 ac, but over the decades went into smaller tracts and is now actually three 41 ac tracts combined... over 1/2 of which belong to family other than myself, whose land I run cattle on.
(I did learn just today, that my deceased brother's place has finally sold and the new owners want to keep the lease that allows us to run cows on that parcel.)


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day,thought you might enjoy a couple of photos on the new ram group.



 

 
The first is a Wiltipol and the second one shows the Van Rooys with a W H Dorper on the left and another Wiltipol at the rear...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Those are some very nice looking rams. Do you have a favorite? 

I had a good lambing this time. I had 9 ewes, 5 were FF's. There was a total of 15 lambs, lost 2, for 13 lambs. 7 ram lambs, 5 ewe lambs, will more than likely keep 4 of them.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and good on you B M.this clip shown Edgar (Australian White ram) meeting his new ewes for the first time,he looks very mobile and "keen" which is a good sign.

I kept this line of Suffolk ewes because after over 18 years of breeding they have a very high resistance to worm challenge  and I want to infuse it into the new flock even though it will come with the "wool gene",but i cannot wait another 18 years to get the new flock to the same stage.There are 16 ewes 14 of which are about 18 months old ,one a year older and another another 2 years older and she leads the group with the aid of the next younger one.Over the years I have found that it is essential to maintain the flocks knowledge within the new younger ewes as it shortcuts the number of mistakes the young ones make in learning"whats ,what"......Hope you all enjoy...T.O.R.


	
	






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=987587974763000


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Here is a pic of the paddock that the Suffolk ewes came out of ,its about 30 acs 

 and as you can see they were hardly marking a "dent" in the volume of feed available.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Looks like lambs will be arriving in about 5 or 6 months! That is a beautiful pasture. It sure shows all your hard work.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,sorry B M i did not answer you question about the rams.I don't have a fav, each breed and each ram within the breed bring with them a different strength and it is the managed combination which achieves the desired outcome.But reaching the outcome is a bit of a "hit and miss affair" although with a "few " years of experience behind me I'm hoping mistakes will be few.On the way to the outcome there will be a lot of sheep eaten but it is hoped it will all be worthwhile once a stable genetic base is established .

On the paddock photo it is worth remembering that this paddock has had "no" external applications of any fertilizer be they Super or Nitrogen for 30 years, only sheep and wildlife manures and careful management in times of stress.This paddock was in a only fair state when the rains came so the result in species,volume and forage quality must speak for how we look after the farm,this result is replicated in all the paddocks we locked up after the start of the rains.In the paddocks that were grazed the grasses still managed to stay ahead of the stocks appetite most likely due to the reduced numbers we have due to the changeover to the new flock it remains to be seen how they come back after the next shower or two.My expectation is that all the  Natives and the Cocksfoot will respond as we move to a cooler part of the year......T.O.R


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## greybeard

Is Kikuyu one of your grasses?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day GB, no, not on this farm ,I think it's too cold for too long to be of any use on this farm. we have in the past had it on the farms closer to the coast.The dairy guys use it a lot down on the coast but for me its too invasive for our sheep situation.Because except in "extreme situations" we don't hand feed our need is for the largest mix possible of grass species.

This year after the dry spell broke" we have rested as many paddocks as possible to allow them to recover and the other day I noticed that the Brown Quail have returned after about a 18 months absence......T.O.R


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## greybeard

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day GB, no, not on this farm ,I think it's too cold for too long to be of any use on this farm. we have in the past had it on the farms closer to the coast.The dairy guys use it a lot down on the coast but for me its too invasive for our sheep situation.Because except in "extreme situations" we don't hand feed our need is for the largest mix possible of grass species.
> 
> This year after the dry spell broke" we have rested as many paddocks as possible to allow them to recover and the other day I noticed that the Brown Quail have returned after about a 18 months absence......T.O.R


I was just curious..
I've recently seen it's USA use discussed on one of the cattle boards, but it seems to be listed as an invasive here in Texas and banned by USDA for most states...Calif & Arizona being  exceptions.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,the last couple of weeks have been pretty busy down on the farm.We sold our first draft of lambs from the "new flock" this last week and much to our surprise they returned better $ wise than the equivalent Suffolk lambs used to.In what was described as a "soft market" they sold 25% higher on a carcass weight measure than the average for the day (700 c/kg as against 520 c/kg).they were score 4 and only fed grass.

The new groups have also been determined and the rams put in,the new flock has been broken up into 4 breeding groups and are as follows.

GROUP 1.Clean Skins,mixed breeds with the WILTIPOL Rams ..lambing to start mid -Aug.No males retained ,90% of females retained.
GROUP 2. WOOLLY EWES,mixed breeds to W H Dorper Rams...   as above..............................................50% of females retained
GROUP 3.B H Dorper EWES,mix of full B H and broken faced ewes to Van Rooy Rams...as above...................50% of females retained.
GROUP 4. Suffolk EWE maidens to Australian White Ram..lambing to start mid-late July.............................100% of females retained.

................T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I'm glad that your first crop of lambs did so well for you. It can only get better from here!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,its been a while since my last visit.Its been about 4 weeks since our last fall of rain with daytime temps in the mid 20's c,and the pasture has kept growing but it is slowing.This morning we had our first frost at the house so that will be the end of the growth probably until early spring.

Currently we are at about 40% of our target carrying capacity so the feed on hand will carry us through until Sept we will be lambing July through Aug and the ewes are in tip-top shape right now.

In recent weeks we have had the opportunity to purchase two new lines of ewes,one B H Dorpers and the other Wiltshire horn and poll at very attractive prices a couple have lambed  (ewe lambs ,both of them) and the others are showing so we expect some lambs from the new lot before our own ones start.we are looking forward to the Suffolk ones we kept as they have gone to an Australian White ram.At the sale recently there was a line of lambs W H dorper ewes by a Australian White ,they almost topped the sale for the day.So next mating we will try this X ourselves.

Here is a couple of pic's of the new ones and a photo of the ones we purchased earlier,the Suffolk ewes are about 20 months old and should lamb in about 8 weeks.

Hope you all enjoy........T.O.R.


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## frustratedearthmother

They look good!


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## Baymule

You got some nice ewes. I like the way you are making crosses to get the best lambs.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,So, yesterday we purchased a line of "sound mouthed " Damara ewes,they came off  pretty "hard country"and some of them were the result of using a Poll Wiltshire ram over the straight bred ewes.It will be interesting to take another pic in about a month.They are all in lamb and the ram shown was "given in" as part of the purchase.I used to think the Wilti's were strong ,but these ones with lots of leg and large frame and slab sides make them a job to handle.Lucky for us they will not need much in the way of looking after,maybe a drench once a year.

In the post above the Wilti's (middle pic) in only a week are showing the improvement of the diverse pasture on offer and it looks as though they will put on enough condition to have a successful lambing with a good milk supply to get the lambs away.

I do "like" the Wilti's be they Poll or Horned as they are really hardy and will eat almost anything in the way of forage (we now have a line of about 30)but from talking to farmers I think that once the lambs "come off of the milk" they may hang up a "bit dry" for the normal trade lamb market.So the plan is the use W,H,dorpers, Australian Whites and Van Rooys to improve the eating quality of the lambs,but as with everything we are looking at about 3/4 years of trials to find out if we are on the right track.

Anyway here are the first pic of the Damaras. The free ram is at the rear, is 4 tooth and just needs a "feed".


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## greybeard

Do you live close to or in the area where the government will be air dropping the poison laced sausages for the feral cats?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/austra...-by-airdropping-poisoned-sausages-2019-04-26/

They need to call these guys.....


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## Baymule

Aren't Damaras a fat tailed sheep? They have a long, straight top line and should drop lambs with good lamb chops, LOL. Nice flock. When you get done mixing these breeds all together and stabilize the line, you should have a composite breed that can survive anywhere on anything, lamb easily, and produce a meaty lamb.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day,GB. if only it was "that easy" to control feral cats,the damage they do to the local wildlife is enormous ,plus the fact they breed in vacant wombat holes along with foxes and rabbits.

I for one do not think its viable as the non target deaths could be greater that the cats who are notorious for their suspicion of foods offered in the wild.The regulations we have to observe when using 1080 are pages long and the detailed records we have to keep are a "pain" but it is the only weapon we have to combat their raids on lambing ewes on our place.

BM. I was reading last night about a guy  who started with Damara rams and used 5 other breeds to produce a composite,but it took him 25 years to stabilize the new bred and get a predictable lambing result every time....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, here is a link to the guy I spoke about..https://www.sheepmaster.com.au/

T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks The Dorper Breed Society must have almost had a "heart attack" when they read his comments about their precious sheep breed.I certainly agree with him on the feet and containment .

T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Those Sheepmaster sure are some good looking sheep. I was going to say, get some of them, until I saw the price tag. Whew!


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## Ridgetop

I'm in southern California and have White Dorpers and they have very good feet and legs.  When mine are out on rocky pasture they don't need their feet even trimmed.  I only had to trim 2 that were kept in a well bedded stall for a couple months.  They had such hard hooves we used a bolt cutter on them!  Since they have been out on pasture their feet wear off naturally.  It could be that I have bloodlines that have bred good feet and legs, and was fortunate to buy from those good breeders.  I think you have to breed for those genetics as well as for meat. 

I also don't have a problem keeping mine in pens or fences, or working with them.  However, that may be because they are the White Dorpers.   I also don't have several hundred which might make a difference in how they act.  Ours are fairly tame and will come up to be petted, even the older ram that was field raised.  I understand the black headed variety is ornery and can be mean tempered, according to a breeder that has both varieties.  She prefers the White Dorpers although they breed the black headed Dorpers because they are more popular with the buyers.

Those Damaras have extremely long legs.  I have never seen a sheep breed with legs that long.  Does their native home have lots of thick brush that they need to step through?   Also, with the horned sheep do you have trouble with your fences?  When we had horned animals they were more destructive than the polled varieties.  You seem to have such expansive pasture that the horns are probably not a problem.  The grass looks great. 

Is the Australian White a different breed?  What went into it?  I am really interested in these different breeds.  Every breed of animal in the world has been developed for its specific place in terrain climate, human need, etc.  The original English breeds were developed for various types of grazing from marsh (Romneys) to pastures (Dorsets, Suffolks, and all the breeds named after various counties) to the Shetlands on stark hills in Scotland.  Really interesting to see what people are developing now for human use and need.

The Sheepmaster looks similar to a White Dorper but if the developer did not use Dorper breeds to develop it, what did he use?  I would like to know.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you Ridgetop for your interesting and well thought out reply.I will work my way through you questions and hope I cover all of your points.

Down here there was no emphasis on the need for "black hooves" and so the growth is "soft" and the edges "roll over" if they are not on hard ground.The next time i have to attempt it I am going to use the same hand tool the farriers use on horses hoofs and see if it is any easier,the main thing i guess i have learned over the years is do not cut the heel as it will wear naturally once the hoof is an even length.As to temperament our shearing stand is a raised board and the sheep go up a ramp to the catching pen (can put up a pic if anyone needs to see to understand).So the sheep are in fact above me by about 4 feet and so they can generate considerable speed down the ramp coming at you and weighing as do between 80/100 kgs in our old Suffolk rams you quickly learn to "vault" the rails and get out of the road.Even in the new flock the W H's and the Aussie White are over 60 kgs and have little respect for what the farmer wants.On the issue of containment,many newbies were sold these previous Nomadic Breeds unused to fences for centuries and like Goats frequently "test" the fence lines and once they have broken through they "never forget" and the other thing "down here" is they watch the Kangaroos go through fences and endeavor to follow them.It was always the case we would get other peoples "problems" when you purchase through the auction barns.But in the end the new wire layout has proved to be "more than a match" for even the worst of them.Its our experience that the B.H's are no worse than the W.H's.

Originally I did not want to have Horned Sheep in the new flock,but having added some I now do not worry,because unlike the Merino's their horns are carried close to the head and the horned breeds have certain characteristic's which I desire to include in the new composite.The Damaras are in fact a dessert breed and need to be able to cover vast distances in a given day as they were mostly driven along by nomadic herders.They are the most "alert" sheep I have ever come across and form a dense mass of animals when confronted, i suspect that those long legs and big bodies provided the energy to escape from predators after a couple of thousand years getting away from lions.I am hoping that a couple of generation down the track i will have "toned down" this alert nature somewhat and will retain the protective nature without the extreme flightiness of the breed.

Modern composite's seem to have all come from similar starting points, in the case of the Aussie White the developer refuses to tell exaltly how he did it,but i think their is a lot of Van Rooy,Dorset,White Suffolk and East Friesain along with some others which i cannot identify at this point of time.

I hope this post has been of some interest and value......T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I always enjoy your posts, they are informative and educational.


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## Rammy

I always imagine the Australian accent, too. Love the accent.


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## Ridgetop

Super interesting!   I imagine the long legs and neck enable the Demara to stand taller so they can see approaching predators.

For hoof care here we just use plain old garden hand pruners on our goats and sheep.  Trimming the outside edge at an angle enables the inner hoof to wear off to avoid cutting into the quick.  The hooves on our White Dorpers are white hooves, but super hard and wear down naturally on our hard rocky soil.   I haven't had to trim in a year. 

The shearing stand I used was the milking stanchion with a sheep head piece designed for fitting show sheep.  My sons, and the current shearer just shear the sheep on the ground, flipping the sheep onto their butts and holding them as they shear.  I can't do that any more.  Hair sheep are easier.  There is very little market in America anymore for wool.  Some people with special fine wool breeds sell fleeces on line for the hand spinning trade.


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## Baymule

Wool makes the best coats. I bought two parkas several years ago, one a wool blend, the other a synthetic. I used the wool blend for my go to town coat, as it is warm and pretty. I abuse the synthetic, getting it wet and dirty. the wool is MUCH warmer and sheds water better....shoulda gotten TWO wool coats.


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## Ridgetop

Wool is always the best, except for down which is also good.  I have an old wool zip up vest which I won't get rid of and wear under my jackets when the weather is really cold.  YES! It _can_ get cold here in southern California, and since the cold spells are interspersed with 80-100 degree temps sometimes you have no opportunity to get used to the cold weather gradually.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day , this week we sold a small line of the new lambs ,they were ideal "Bar-B-Q" specials .They would dress about 10/12 kgs and sold for $125.00 ea at auction.

It has been a warm fall and the grasses are still producing new growth on the cool season vars. but next week we are expecting to only make about 10 c in the day so that will b the end of that.

T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Good sale price.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day B M, the lambs were from  the new ewes we purchased .Our current C O P is about $60.00 per year, it will fall to about $40.00 per breeder ewe per year when we reach full carrying capacity......T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

I guess it’s been about six eventful months since I last spoke about Jenny.

Her condition has slipped quite a bit in that time, her “short term and to some extent her medium memory “has completely faded, processing and keeping track of simple tasks and conversations is very hard for her. I am sure in lots of respects she is aware of her condition and in recent times has in an effort to protect herself she avoids if possible contact with people (outside of the immediate family) especially in new or unfamiliar places. She will greet acquaintances warmly but later on she will inquire as to who they were and where we know them from.

Over time I have learned to recognize most of the “trigger points” for a coming “meltdown” and so I can in most cases take evasive action to calm the situation, but it does not always work unfortunately and so the rest of the day can be quite a trial for me to cope with, that is until the next morning when she remembers nothing of the day before. This is probably the hardest part for me as I remember it all and the toll it takes on me emotionally and it is very hard sometimes not to “resent” what I have had to endure the day before, but am expected to “just get over it overnight” and the next day go forward as if nothing has happened .

Life on the farm now has to proceed at her pace and so I am finding that many tasks take so much longer to get done, but I have structured the farm now so the normal pressures are such that I can make allowances for unexpected delays.

I am consoled by the fact that the two ladies from the semi govt agency(Dementia Australia) that watch over me consider that I am doing a very good job given the circumstances and the isolation in which we live and the fact that having anyone come to the house causes Jenny to become anxious and increases her stress levels, but we are in this for the long haul regardless of what challenges we face and we will face then together...............T.O.R.


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## Baymule

And that folks, is true love. Many people live their whole lives long and never know what love like this, is. Thank you for sharing your journey with us. I can only imagine what both of you go through with this debilitating disease.


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## Hens and Roos




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## frustratedearthmother

Having recently gone through this with both parents I want to emphasize how important it is for you to get a break.  The stress, as you already know, is at a high level most of the time.  I would find that 'barn-time' worked wonders for me.  I pray that you have a way to get a breather from time to time.


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## Finnie

frustratedearthmother said:


> I want to emphasize how important it is for you to get a break. T


Amen to this. 

@The Old Ram-Australia  What you describe is exactly how my mother described it when she cared for her mother. 

It's hard not to take the "meltdowns" personally. It's hard to remember in the moment that it's the Alzheimer's yelling at you, not the loved one. For 5 years, my grandmother had no knowledge that the "mean" lady living with her was her daughter. She was forever telling her to go back where she came from and make sure to leave the checkbook when she went. 

They were in an urban area and not isolated, but my mother did not successfully get help and support. It was a risk to leave long enough just to go out and buy food. I think not getting support took a great toll on my mother. (They were in Florida, far away from other family members.)

You may have to weigh the risks vs benefits of getting someone in to relieve you occasionally, since it sounds like it would stress Jenny. But there will be times when you will need help. I know I'm a stranger, but I wish you strength for the road you travel on.


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## Ridgetop

Finnie is so right!  You need to get some help so you can have an occasional break from the constant stress of watching over Jenny and coping with her disease.  Coping with this is more exhausting than you realize until you have someone give you a break from it.

My FIL took care  of my MIL for years and we did not realize how bad she had become.  When we did, we brought her back to California and found a good Assisted Living facility.  They had an Alzheimers unit for patients that would eventually not be able to stay with their husbands/wives, as well as a "daycare" room so the spouse could get some relief.  The first time my MIL went there, Daddy sat down and promptly fell asleep for the next 4  hours.  He didn't realize how little rest he had been getting watching over Mom.  He always to be alert than she did not get out and get lost, leave on the stove, etc.  Luckily my MIL never had to go to the "lock down" facility at the Assisted Living home.  She passed away from Alzheimers related problems right about the time the facility was trying to talk Daddy into moving her into the "lock down' section for her own safety.  We lost her twice, once when she no longer knew us, and again when we laid her to rest.  It is a hateful disease, and causes the most grief to a person's loved ones. 

Our prayers and love are with you and Jenny.  Being able to give her a quiet life on the farm is a blessing.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks and thank you for your support and comments,your story's and support are of great help for me especially when i'm a bit "down".

Anyway back to the farm:I think i spoke about the three new groups we purchased recently,they have now started lambing,the B H Dorpers have produced 1 set of twins and 2 singles so far,1 of the Darmara's has had a single i am not worried about the lamb numbers as they have all come off pretty "hard country",but the ewes themselves have come away in leaps and bounds as far as condition is concerned.

It has been "damm cold" (well for us anyway ) -8 C in the mornings and we are paddock lambing so these lambs will be pretty strong types when they grow.Our main lambing is late July through August when we will have some results of our new breeding program.....T.O.R.


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## mystang89

My heart goes out to you for having to go through this. My sister and grandmother both had this and I fear myself one day will succumb to it. It is something that scares me not a little but my heart warms to know that people like you are there for those who suffer from this.


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## Baymule

We will always be here to listen, share and cheer you up. I have no personal experience, but have seen the effects on friends and their families. 

That sounds good about the ewes. They are now in paradise compared to where they came from.


----------



## Mini Horses

Ridgetop said:


> We lost her twice, once when she no longer knew us, and again when we laid her to rest. It is a hateful disease, and causes the most grief to a person's loved ones.





mystang89 said:


> I fear myself one day will succumb to it. It is something that scares me



Old Ram...you will need a break.  These are hard times with this disease  5 yrs with mom & Big A seemed like 25!   I know your pain at watching and coping.  At some point it will require 24/7 by others    This was worse than caring for my DH with terminal cancer.   A terrible disease.  

Please try to get a break....even a day makes a difference.  No guilt for feeling anger.  NONE!!  They can't control their issues.   We are here to let you vent.  We understand.


Glad to hear your lambing is going well.  Soon you will have more lambs to enjoy.   I hope you do try to enjoy them.   I found my animals were a true source of relief for me, emotionally.  

How are your dogs doing for you?


----------



## greybeard

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Modern composite's seem to have all come from similar starting points, in the case of the Aussie White the developer refuses to tell exaltly how he did it,but i think their is a lot of Van Rooy,Dorset,White Suffolk and East Friesain along with some others which i cannot identify at this point of time.


He's not the first or only breed developer to keep the genetic makeup to him/herself.
The US 1st cousin to your fine and hearty Droughtmaster breed of cattle is the composite Beefmaster breed, and the guy (Tom Lassiter) that developed them never really divulged exactly what the makeup of the foundation herd was, tho it is generally believed to be  50% Bos indicus, 25% Hereford, and 25% Milking Shorthorn, but others think it was closer to 50% Bos Indicus, 3/8 Hereford, 1/8 shorthorn. No one knows for sure either, exactly which Brahman was used as Lassiter experimented with 3 different types...Nelore from Brasil, Gir & Guzerat from India. He took the true makeup with him to the grave.


----------



## Ridgetop

It takes a lot of money, determination, and life devotion to develop a new breed.  If they gave away the recipe to everyone for free where would be the point in developing a better widget?

The trick in any composite makeup of a new breed is to get it to breed true.  Even if repeated with the same exact percentage of breeds, that mix may not give you the same results.  The individual animals' genetics are different than other animals of the same breed - it is not like following a cake recipe.  The trick is to choose and develop those individuals that give the results you need and breed them into a steady herd nucleus that continues to breed true and perform.  Thankfully the rest of us can cash in on these guys forethought and work instead of having to repeat it all.

The good thing is that by using breeds that have been successfully developed those who follow can use new bloodlines to affect new changes they need for their own situations.  Continual improvement.


----------



## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, it is worth noting that "i" am breeding an animal which will perform on "my farm" and in the surrounding district,rather than a sheep for the masses (i am way to old for that path).The changing weather and climate patterns mean that local sheep farmers will need to change and the fact that i think raising cattle locally will become a more and more expensive exercise along with increasing environmental damage to boot will dictate the swing back to sheep ,but not for wool, but for highly productive and easy management meat types...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

The sheep you develop may only be advantageous locally, but I'll bet that your neighbors will be quite happy that you did so.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

It took our near traditional neighbors 10 years to get over the black-pointed Suffolk's,who knows what the make of the Hair breeds we have now?....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

It's like this, move with the times and adapt, or get left behind. You are not only moving with the times, you are getting out in front of the crowd and developing your own composite breed, adapted to your own particular property and climate.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, a purchase this week has opened the door for a "new" sheep venture which will run along side the composite ewe program.

Details and pic's will be posted soon !........T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I can't wait to see what you are doing now!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,down here we have a site called "Gumtree" i assume it's something like your "Craig's List".

It's a site i keep an eye on for sheep "bargains" and on page 28 there are some pic's of the last lot we purchased.So this week an add came up for Dairy X ewes (35 + 4 Rams),the ewes were described as Awaasi,East Friesians,Van Rooy and other Fat Tail x's,the rams are pure bred Awassi's.

What an opportunity !So i ring the guy and he says a chap is coming tomorrow for look ,but only wants the pick,the seller wants them to go as one lot,i tell him we are prepared to take the lot.Sunday morning we "rock up" with our trailer in tow,they have started lambing and there are 8 lambs on the ground,which are included in the asking price.Now this flock is "not cheap",but the chance to get pure bred Awassi rams is not to be ignored,so in spite of their "extremely light condition",we "take the plunge" and buy them,we borrow his large trailer and we get the lot home in 2 trips (1000 kms).

Now it turns out he is a stud breeder but has a huge market for Fat Tail whether's to the Arab market in Sydney,i tell him we are not interested in breeding Rams,but is he interested in wether lines grown to his specs? "Yes",says he and he will pay a premium for spec stock delivered to his farm (500 km round trip).

So now we have two flocks and the Composite flock will have the advantage of a dairy infusion and the Dairy flock with be infused with our heavy meat Composite flock.Sounds like a great "win/win " for the program going forward.

The first pic shows the very tough conditions they were on ,the guy was renting the block at $500 a month and was hand-feeding the stock because he had run out of grass.
The second pic is them at home,it seems that these Fat tail's are pretty "flighty" like the Damaras and so it will take a while for them to settle in.I have started them on Alfalfa chaff and rolled Barley along with Seaweed Meal and our mineral mix.In the next post i will show some updated pic's of the previous 3 lines .......T.O.R.   [/ATTACH]


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## Baymule

What a deal and a great opportunity for you. I bet those sheep are glad to be on your farm, grass, cooling shade trees, what a difference! And already dropping lambs! Plus you found a market for wethers, that was a good contact to make.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, here is a pic of some of the Damara's /2nd Wiltipool group,it was taken about 1 month ago and since then 2 have lambed (Damaras),3 of the B.H. Dorpers have also lambed .

When the sun comes out I will try for some new pic's.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

We want lamb pictures!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

OK,OK,lamb pic's it will be.BTW, our first Awassi lamb was born yesterday,sex unknown, we will try for some pic's today/tomorrow.

There is more exciting news for the farm in the near future,will not know for sure for about 2 weeks......T.O.R.


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## Baymule

WHAT?? Exciting news for the farm, then you leave us hanging? Your first Awassi lamb! Pictures!

haha, got a funny. I let the sheep out to graze our yard this afternoon. This evening I went to put them up and saw a funny shape under the trailer. We have a dump trailer that Trip, our Great Pyrenees has dug deep holes under and he lies under the trailer in the heat of the day. I call it Trip's Office. I looked again, and a sheep was laying in the hole under the trailer!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,this post is not the new news you were expecting.

Last Saturday I was carried by ambulance to the capital hosp for emergency surgery on one of my kidneys.After a  successful operation i was sent home only to be told that i will require two more surgery's in the next two months .

So the new pic's will have to wait as i am under strict instructions from doctor (and Jenny) that i "must " take it easy so the inflamed nature of the kidney can calm down and undertake a level of repair. 

Currently we have gale and cold conditions ,but all the sheep are in "safe" paddocks with adequate tree cover and from what we can observe all the lambs are doing OK.

I hope we can get some pic's of the new lambs in the next week or so,because so far all is good with my recovery and i am taking "no" painkillers and have very little pain from the surgery.Saw my doc today,he is satisfied that i am progressing well and should recover given adequate rest and not exerting my self unduly.

I will post updates as they come to hand......T.O.R.


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## Baymule

That had to be scary! I am glad the surgery repaired what was wrong or at least got the process started, as you have two more to go. Do what the doctor says, you don’t want to mess up his work by lifting or doing something stupid. Is there anyone that can help you and Jenny? I will pray for a speedy recovery for you.


----------



## Mike CHS

I know that is hard to deal with but I know you will do what needs to be done.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Really hope you have a quick recovery.


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## B&B Happy goats

Hope you mend quickly


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you all for your messages of support,i am heartened and comforted by your messages.

In answer to the questions.In the last 6 months the management of the farm has been modified to reduce the workload.We have always paddock lambed with as little disturbance and intervention as possible,we do not hand feed unless exceptional circumstances apply.Apart from the new sheep which can lamb anytime our first lambing will be our Suffolk's which were joined to the Australian White and this will start in a few weeks time (and i cant wait for the results).Jenny takes care of her chooks and her two dogs.My doges have a 2 km run each day while i drive the truck and check the far ewe group.All the others are observed from the drivers seat.My dogs are then fed and Jenny brings in the wood for the fire from the wood shed "she built" years ago.

So today i managed a few pic's for you all.
1.The Awassi's have discovered the mineral mix.
2.The new Awassi lamb(spotted one,its a ram).
3. B.H. Dorper lamb.
4. B.H. Dorper twins.
5. One of the Damara lambs can be spotted.

Hope you all enjoy the pic's,i will update as time permits.......T.O.R.


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## Baymule

They all look healthy and happy. I’m glad that you are able to get out and go check on them. Just being able to lay eyes on them and see the new lambs has to make you smile. Glad that Jenny is pitching in and able to do her part, even more so because it makes her happy. Thanks for the pictures!


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## B&B Happy goats

Your pictures of your  fields  and lambs are so peaceful  and beautiful,  thank you for sharing them.  
wishing the best for you and Jenny


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,O.K.so it's not a very good shot , but the lamb was only 24 hours old and mum was not taking any chances.At this time sex is unknown.

The exciting new news is almost here.It will be another day or two before you get details and pic's,but i can say this the new group is an exotic desert breed and almost all of the ewe group have lambs at foot or are about to lamb.Hang in there it wont be long now......T.O

 .R.


----------



## Baymule

I guess we have to wait on the exciting news! You throw out a teaser like that! Lambing is exciting, no matter what the breed, it is fun to see all the babies.


----------



## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,well here is the new news.The story behind us getting them is an interesting one in itself.We were driving home past a neighbors farm(he is a dyed in the wool cow man) and I spotted this mob of sheep running down his drive and i immediately knew  the breed as i had inquired about them about 18 months ago (and "my god " they were expensive).So down his drive we go and asked about his new sheep,"Bloody sheep ",he exclaims they escaped from a farm about 6 kms away and are eating everybody's scarce feed.

The next step is to contact the local ranger to find out the story.the owners fences are "shot" and his sheep are wandering everywhere including the rangers own block.The owner is on holidays in Bali,so i say we would be interested in buying his whole flock and in due course we get a phone call and go and have a look and arrive at a price for the mob.So we get them home some have lambed and so still have a bit to go.They have been so "underfed" that the "fat tails" are non existent at the minute and about 6 or so are rams from last year ,some quite good types amongst them too.

They are Persians and are a desert breed much favored by the royal family's in the Middle East.The Black Headed one is the breed used to produce the Black headed Dorper.

In the future I will use a ram from this group over the Awassi/East Friesian"s  we got recently to increase the Spotted type in the lambs.


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## Baymule

Wow! Wow! And Wow!  What are the chances of a deal like that falling into your lap? That is unbelievable.  They are so pretty too, all spotty.  How many are in the flock?


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## B&B Happy goats

Impressive   looking  group you have there, congradulatios


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## frustratedearthmother

So happy for you - how fantastic!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, so today Jenny and i ear tagged and accessed the new flock.It seems we have a mix of straight bred Persians and Persians /Damara x's.

In total we have 20 ewes ,6 rams ,3 wethers ,2 ewe lambs and 4 ram lambs so far.I suspect that there a  few more wandering the district and we will endevour to track them down over the coming weeks.

Because we have some Damara X's/Darama's i will select a ram from the new group  to go to out Damara /Darama /Wiltipol  X's next year to test the results and if they do not produce what we want they can always "be eaten".

I am extremely happy with the straight bred Persians in the group and will breed them true next season...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I wish we had the Persian sheep here. They are so pretty and would do good in our heat!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, so 3 new lambs today,2 from the Persian x's and one from the Suffolk which was joined to the Australian White.Although in the pic's it is not obvious the boning in the lamb is a lot heavier that the standard Suffolk.This year the Suffolk's have to do it all on their own as they have "not " been crutched or the belly wool taken off as is normal due to my recent surgery.

The other 2 lambs are from the Persian/Damara x's and so have not got the "speckled" color but this could be explained by the number of rams in the group,which are about to be separated.

BTW,the 2 colored Suffolk's are a first X by a B H Dorper,their lambs will be worth waiting for?...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I studied Sheep here for several years, learning all I could. Because of the shearing and crutching I knew I didn’t want higher maintenance wool breeds. I opted for hair sheep because of their lower maintenance. 

I admire you for this path you have chosen. Because of health, age and other issues, you decided to stay in sheep, your love of them and the farm, you made the wise decision to move into hair Sheep. You have a lot of breeds to choose from and will breed the right sheep to fit your land. It is with great excitement that I watch your journey from afar, but with a front row seat on all the goings on. Thank you so much for taking us along with you.


----------



## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,new pic's .new Awassi lamb just 24 hours old (another ram,still he can be used over some of the other breeds into the future).The next pic's are of the second group (not as clean shedding as the 1st group,but some will move up next year).The forage does look a little "grim" but the ewes seem to be holding up OK without hand-feeding.


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## Baymule

That's a beautiful ram lamb, love his markings. The pastures are looking dry, it must be your dry season. It is dry here too. The sand we have is loose, dusty, and in some places over a foot deep. A vehicle will get stuck in it. 

We just had forestry mulching done to clear some land. Take a look at it.

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/forestry-mulching.39904/#post-618463


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## Beekissed

TOR, they all look great, even with the drier grass!  Love the markings on that little lamb also.  Loving the updates on your new direction.


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## B&B Happy goats

Thank you for sharing your  journey with us ....


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## frustratedearthmother

The little ram is gorgeous!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

News  from Downunder: Two new ones last night,first a East Friesian x Awassi ewe/ Awassi ram.The second one was from a Damara x Persian ewe/ram a Persian .Pic's to come when the lambs are settled....When our own lambing starts it will be a little hard to keep up though,4 groups totaling about 120 ewes....... T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Here's to a good and fruitful lambing! raising glass of sweet iced tea


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, i thought i would share an experience from the last week about the new group.So i start "digging" around and i found out that our little band is a "derivative" of the Persians,it seems that some years ago someone had the "bright idea" of breeding a small type of Persian sheep (why you would do it eludes me though) and he used a small W.H. Dorper over Persian ewes to create this "little version".So i apply and join this group dedicated to the breed? It turns out their is "no" studbook and the bred standards are pretty obscure and all of the base line genetics are held by a few breeders who seem to run the whole show and the site warns that "new breeders should be aware of anybody but them supplying animals".......Anyway in all "innocence" i suggest that what they have is not a new breed ,but just a animal type...The result of this post was that I was immediately "banned and shut out of the group/site",but was contacted by another member of the group via PM to say she thought i was extremely "brave" to make such a comment and although others feel the same way they would never express it on the site. 

This was an interesting outcome for me and shows how unlike myself and my sites just how dictatorial some folks can be........T.O.R.


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## Baymule

The truth don't hurt but it sure makes people mad!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, i was wondering if any of you subscribe to SHEEP mag in the USA?Does an article still appear in the letters section titled "view from downunder"?..In recent times i have had "no reply" from Nathan (editor) and i wonder if they do not appreciate the fact that stuff i send to them may have already been posted on-line.The fact is that due to other pressures i cannot send them articles written "just" for the mag,anyway if over the last 3/4 issues they have continued would it be possible for someone to send me a copy of same via PM...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I don’t subscribe to it. I used to buy it at Tractor Supply and enjoyed it. They stopped carrying it. Thanks for the reminder, I’ll subscribe to it. That won’t help you now though.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> The truth don't hurt but it sure makes people mad!



Like hornets!   

TOR, I love it that you point out the obvious...I too have been subject to that very thing for much of of my life.  Doesn't make you any too popular.  Got kicked off a FB page just the other day for pointing out the obvious truth...and I don't belong to too many FB groups at all.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, latest news on the first controlled lambing.The Suffolk maidens were joined to an Australian White a breed that i have never had before.As most of you would be aware Suffolk lambs are usually born "jet  black' and the tip grows out over time and they become white with black skin points.So to my surprise these lambs which when born are about the size of the average "rabbit"and are snow white with little black spots on the head and lower legs.Which to my mind shows the strength of the Australian White genes,from the "get go" they are highly active and seem to put on weight at a quite alarming rate (based on the first one anyway).Because of the paddock lambing with almost no intervention and the fact these ewes are "maidens" pic's will be a couple of days coming so we do not disturb the new mothers during the important "bonding " process.So far about half the group has lambed 8/16 all singles and all from what i can tell all"rams".Because of the conditions prior to joining and the "tough" season i expect that male to female could be as high as 80/20 ,but we will see over time i guess....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Interesting that the Australian White has such strong genes. Maiden ewes and easy lambing sounds like a winner to me. Can you further discuss the male to female ratio because of tough range conditions? Does it take more nutrients to develop female lambs?


----------



## Mike CHS

There is a producer just south of us in Alabama who is part of a group that has imported the Australian White sheep.   He is doing a major PR campaign but I don't know how much success he has had since he is doing a large amount of his promotion on Katahdin sites.


----------



## Beekissed

Are they similar to the Royal Whites here in the states?  I know they have different breed contributions, but similar traits?


----------



## Mike CHS

Beekissed said:


> Are they similar to the Royal Whites here in the states?  I know they have different breed contributions, but similar traits?



From their description I would think so but I don't know.  I was talking to Daniel at our last Katahdin meeting but I haven't been to their farm to see them.  It's Fagerman Farm in Alabama but I just looked at their web site and it doesn't have any info. Daniel does most of his PR on Facebook.


----------



## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> From their description I would think so but I don't know.  I was talking to Daniel at our last Katahdin meeting but I haven't been to their farm to see them.  It's Fagerman Farm in Alabama but I just looked at their web site and it doesn't have any info. Daniel does most of his PR on Facebook.



I was interested in trying a RW ram lamb but spoke to a guy that did...all the lambs resulting from it had chronic hoof problems, lameness, etc.  Could have just been the breeder's focus on that RW, but it's made me a little wary, particularly with any I'd get in my area.  

Not too many folks breeding hair sheep for overall excellence in my state...mostly focusing on having "registered" but not necessarily "standard".   All the registered stock I've seen in my state don't resemble their supposed hair breed, neither in size nor in conformation but their breeders seem to think they can ask more money for them if they are registered.  They couldn't pay me to have that stock on my land, let alone sell them to me!  Their stock made the scrubs I finally purchased look like fair queens.


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## Baymule

A lot of the facebook groups are moving to MeWe because FB deletes posts that are selling animals, and will take the whole group down. Stupid FB.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, in answer to BM. "Can you further discuss the male to female ratio because of tough range conditions? "

Several years ago i dedicated quite a deal of "thinking time " to the subject and after some considerable time the result was the following.In Australian Kangaroo the female is "always " pregnant but the next stage is controlled by the female ,it seems they evolved this way so that there had to be good feed conditions to allow the birth without risking the health of the mother.If you examine the birthing times of the large wild animals it is usually in early Spring or at the end of winter,this sorts out the strongest from the rest,in other words "survival of the fittest" and only the best go forward to reproduce.

IMO, when science interferes its at considerable risk to the livestock and/ or the farmers wallet.Nature evolved over 000's of years and set in place certain limits to ensure the future and strength of each species.If you allow Nature to determine when the ewe becomes pregnant the female will produce embryo's to suit the available conditions with an expectation that things will be OK at the time of birth .So if you interfere and "flush" in spite of the prevailing conditions don't you run the risk of problems and extra costs at the time of lambing? The question of male to female ratios is a complicated one i think and if unlike the Kangaroo the female has "no" control on the subject of cycling it stands to reason that an excess of males who are "expendable" as the best option as only the strongest will go on to reproduce,but the females hold the future of the species and an excess born in un-favorable conditions over time "weaken" the species into the future.(I am sure there is a P H D for someone into the future if they could show this to be the case,)

I remember reading in the 70's a study that suggested that if you wait until at least the second natural cycle you can improve the female outcome.I did try it in the old days with the goats and it seemed that it was the case but the outcome could easily have been factors outside of my limited trial.Perhaps it is something i could explore at a later date,just something to attempt along with the two new projects (if i live that long).

Anyway it is an interesting topic for discussion and i welcome your views...T.O.R.


----------



## Beekissed

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> So if you interfere and "flush" in spite of the prevailing conditions don't you run the risk of problems and extra costs at the time of lambing?



I've often questioned flushing as well.  Around here the deer come into heat/mate in Oct/Nov and lamb in the spring ~May/June~when the grass is the most nutritious.  In the fall they've fattened on acorns, fall fruits, and winter graze, so their bodies are ready for conception. 

If we too follow these mating and lambing cycles, the available feed should be at its nutritional highest during these times and there should be no need for flushing, provided the sheep have access to a variety of natural nutrition on their range.  

I've never understood having calves/lambs in Feb/March, when there is still not enough natural nutrition for good milk production and the weather is at its most harsh here.   Then people complain of loss of calves/lambs to the weather conditions, they have to gather animals into barns for calving and lambing to keep them alive, supplement their diets....doesn't it all get rather costly when they could just have calves and lambs at the proper time and avoid all of that?  

Salatin states his calves born at the proper time, when grass is at its most nutritious and allowed to wean naturally off their mother's milk, will fatten up and grow quickly enough to finish out for fall markets at the same time as those born earlier in the season and supplemented in order to get past being born at the wrong time of year.  I would have to agree with that.


----------



## Baymule

TOR that is very interesting about the kangaroos. In nature, animals cycle their breeding and birth in circadian rhythms with the seasons. We want to control the process to suit ourselves. Just because we can, doesn’t make us any smarter. 

I have 1 ewe that consistently produces ram lambs. I have 1 daughter from her and that daughter is small. I was not impressed with her lamb. She is bred to Ringo, a much better ram this go round, so we’ll see. If she doesn’t produce a better Lamb this time, then she will be sold. I would like another daughter out of that ewe, she always has twins, good sized rams that grow off good. The one I finally got is small. Maybe by breeding my ewe to Ringo, if she does have another ewe lamb, maybe it will be a better quality. Here’s hoping. 

We are working to get pasture established. The summer heat narrows down the available choices of varieties that can survive and produce.


----------



## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, a couple of things to "chat" about in this post.Firstly we were setting some 1080 fox baits this afternoon i the paddock where the Aswassi /East Frisian Ewes are so far we have about a dozen lambs from the group.Considering the sparse feed they are on the lambs are doing astonishingly well and the Aswassi ones appear to be true to type and we shall retain a few rams to introduce the "extra milk gene " to some of the other groups.

The Suffolk maidens are more that half lambed now and are like "peas in a pod" as far as color and type.Its marvelous to see them barely 2 days old as they move through the Tussocks and Bracken Fern at times leaping to see above the forage and keep "mum" in sight,the ones that are a week or so old are now starting to group together low to the ground and out of the freezing breezes whilst catching some of the warm suns rays.

This year due to the cold which restricts the odor of the buried chicken wings from the feral pest people I am giving them a "dusting" of Meat meal" and a little sprinkling on the soil above to catch their attention and encourage them to consume them and if we lose a Feral Cat or two so much the better for the local bird life.A couple of years ago we were given a "tip" to give the laying hens a little each day when re-growing their feathers after winter (but not to much or you risk them getting egg bound).Because of recent wheat crop failures the "old fashion laying mash" the same lady suggested we use a 16% dairy Meal with a teaspoon of meat meal to boost the protein value of the feed.

This weekend we hope to start "banding" the un-wanted Rams from the various groups and ear tagging them to easily tell girls from boys.

In answer to some of the comments on the Australian Whites,i dont think they anyway come from a Royal White base.Next year he will go to the whole line of W. H. Dorpers because I saw some results earlier this year and they were "outstanding lambs" and the agent selling them placed them at the "top of his lamb run" on the day........T.O.R.


----------



## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,well the news just keeps coming,the most exciting bit first.Last night i was having a look at GUMTREE in the sheep section and here is a add just a couple of hours old, which about 130 views had already taken place but on the off chance i gave the chap a ring.He had had a lot of interest from buyers close to Sydney (but it was a 6 hr drive to where the sheep were). The flock was a group of 10 "pure bred Aswassi's some with lambs at foot ,worked out a price that suited both of us and we set out at 7 am this morning to go and buy them.It was an 8 hour round trip for us ,but they are so worth it,also bought a x ewe with twins at foot.5 lambs in total "given in" 4 ewes and one ram (he will be wethered) .The ewes are first time lambing and have got great bags of milk i also think some of them may be yet to lamb (here's hoping).All round a "great day".They are in the shearing shed tonight with feed and water ,pic's tomorrow.

Some time ago we purchased some Wiltipols which came off of a mountain and the farmer had the water point and yards at the bottom,they were all supposed to be in lamb and "true to form" they started lambing yesterday,in was late in the afternoon and we could see 1 set of twins and a single.It was too late today when we got back so we will have a good look in the morning (and take some pic's).

The Suffolk's have all but finished and the lambs are looking pretty good ,here is a couple of pic's (not very good ,but i will do better in the coming days).The choc ewe is a 1st x B.H.Dorper over a Suffolk ewe.


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## Baymule

Congrats on the Awassi flock! What ram will you be putting over the Awassi ewes when they wean lambs and you breed them back? 

I am assuming that you will breed them to a hair ram. How many generations does it take to breed out the wool? 

I’m really excited for you and your new flock!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=340015480212624
			




G'day folks, here are the new "little devils"....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Here are the "new" Aswssi's. There is a short clip also but have to put it on the F B page first.They came off of "pretty hard country" and are a bit "light" under the wool,but some time on good range grazing and a little bit of grain, Alfalfa chaff and our mineral mix will soon get them in order....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day gang,here are a few stills of the Aus White X Suffolk lambs.....T.O.R.


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## frustratedearthmother

Really nice!


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## Baymule

Does the wool on the Awassi have value or is their value in being a dairy sheep? I seem to remember_ someone_ going into hair sheep so he wouldn't have to shear sheep anymore...…. They ought to put a milk bag on your bred-for-your-farm sheep. 

Those are some nice lambs! I know you are excited for their arrival.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi B.M.they are covered with really "course hair".I have to find out if they develop a soft undercoat like Cashmere goats do and wether they just shed or "rub it off on the fences " like all the others do.

I rang the guy that we got the first lot from(didn't tell him about the new ones) to "pick his brains " on some of his early X-breading programs and received some helpful tips as well. 

In the next couple of weeks i will be re-assigning the rams to new females as once we get some rain i think they will start cycling.I will let you know who is going where and the thinking behind the choice.We are only a week or so from the start of the main "drop" of lambs and I can't wait to see the results of the decisions i made at joining.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

@mystang89 you have Awassi, do you shear them or do they shed out in the spring?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day ,If @mystang89 is willing i would like to chat to both him and his wife, be it on / off of the site as i think their experiences could be of great value going forward for me.Thats assuming they have the time to do it ?......T.O.R.


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## mystang89

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> flock was a group of 10 "pure bred Aswassi's some with lambs at foot ,worked out a price



First off, congratulations! I normally don't get jealous but I am a bit now. We have to really fight to find them here in the states and pure bred is unheard of.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> All round a "great day



Understatement of the century.

As to your question concerning their wool, they don't shed. You have to shear them each spring. That being said we do have one 75% Awassi ewe that does "shed" some parts of her wool around her neck area. Now, I don't know if this is because of of a different breed of sheep from her lineage but she does lose a couple clumps.

If there is any question you have in them, we'll answer to the best of our ability.

I can tell you right now that you have a gold mine on your hands. Extremely resistant to parasites, foot rot and most anything else our other non Awassi sheep have suffered from. Great foragers, comes from their history. Doesn't take much to keep them happy and healthy.

Very happy for you!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you mystang89,all in all i think they will be a valuable asset to our program.I think we have 10 or so Assaf ewes some with Awassi X  lambs at foot and about 30 pure Aswassi' ewes and 3 pure bred rams,with the Assaf's  it looks as though they do not have as heavy a coat as the Aswassi's. That being said if they do not grow an undercoat over winter in our part of the world,i would not worry about the heavy hair coat.The main issue that i can see is the hygiene element in even a semi commercial dairy situation.

I see an opportunity to x breed over a couple of generations to produce an ewe that is "clean skinned,or clean shedding with extra muscling while retaining all the best attributes of the original two breeds.(this process will take some thinking about before any action takes place)

In the immediate future i will keep the Aswassi line pure for rams to use over the other breeds in our lineup.I priced a pure bred stud ram and they start at a $1000.00 which is beyond us at this point.The next inquiry is to establish if we have cheese-makers in our area who will purchase milk if we produce it any what they are willing to pay for same?.....T,O,R.


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## mystang89

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> I priced a pure bred stud ram and they start at a $1000.00 which is beyond us at this point.



That's actually pretty cheap. For a 75% buck Awassi it's $1000. Like I said, pure bred doesn't exist here in the states as we purchase embryos for the Awassi from Australia which of course is time more expensive.

I don't want to tell you what's important in the sheep as you know that FAR better than myself but if I could just make a suggestion in my opinion the Awassi's 3 best traits are
1.) Resistance and hardiness
2.) Their lactation period is much longer than anything we have here in the states, going well over half a year.
3.) The amount of milk they give. While, in my opinion it's not as much per milking on average as, say, an East Friesian, it is quite close plus as previously said, they milk it longer.

In my opinion, these are the 3 that make this breed great. If you're able to retain those while at the same time making them shed, you're a genius.

I'm still very inexperienced with sheep, so I'm afraid I don't know what an undercoat is our feels like, however if you can describe it for me I can go as one of my girls if they have one. I do know that they are nice and soft after sheering but I don't really have any other type of sheep to compare them to.

I'm very excited for you and greatly interested in how this venture will unfold. If you ever feel like flying to the US with a few of your stock you're welcome to let some (all) stay with us.


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## mystang89

This is a pick of one of our 50% Awassi. She is the one who sheds a bit on her neck and part of her front shoulder/breast area. You can see about where it is in the pic


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi, does her woolly coat get any longer than this? She looks to have a "clean undercarriage",does it extend all the way to the rear and up to the tail? I am hoping to use a clean shedding fat tail over the Assafs and if i can achieve a "clean undercarriage " the full length and up under the tail i will be very happy with that result.

Where did your Aussie  embryo's come from NSW or Queensland? I am going to contact some people in Israel who are members of my LinkedIn group,because i have yet to see a shorn Awassi sheep in any of their pic's.Two come to mind immediately who are high up in the dairy sheep industry.

So i was thinking ,when a chicken goes through the "moult" it stop laying ,only to begin again after it has grown new feathers and to hasten the process it is recommended that you increase the protein in the feed .So it stands to reason that if you shear mid-lactation would the ewe not direct energy and food intake to regrow it again?

We have just come back from checking the 1080 fox baits and the elite group of ewes have started to lamb ,they are the Wiltshire Horns and they went to a Wiltipol ram.Also the "not so good shedders" have started ,they went to very good shedding W.H.Doper rams and a line of Wiltipol ewes that we purchased in lamb supposedly joined to a stud ram have also started.It is going to be a very busy time from now on i think......T.O.R.


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## mystang89

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Hi, does her woolly coat get any longer than this? She looks to have a "clean undercarriage",does it extend all the way to the rear and up to the tail? I am hoping to use a clean shedding fat tail over the Assafs and if i can achieve a "clean undercarriage " the full length and up under the tail i will be very happy with that result.



I was going to take a picture of her so you could judge for yourself but this morning was a bit of a rough morning so I forgot. I'll feet one sometime today and post it here for you. Her wool, that which keeps her warm in winter, does get longer. I'll also post a pic of one of them when their will is a year long. Please remember, these are mixed with sheep such as Lacaune or East Friesian etc, so the genetics from that line may also be incorporated into the wool formation.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Where did your Aussie embryo's come from NSW or Queensland? I am going to contact some people in Israel who are members of my LinkedIn group,because i have yet to see a shorn Awassi sheep in any of their pic's.Two come to mind immediately who are high up in the dairy sheep industry.



I personally did not but any embryo, (much too expensive for me) but Larry Meissegeir and Andy Karas are the persons who I know dealt in embryos for Awassi here in the states. Larry is who I bought mine from. His contract is here: https://m.facebook.com/larry.meisegeier
Andy is here https://m.facebook.com/karrasfarm/
I would personally talk to Larry first as I trust him more.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> So i was thinking ,when a chicken goes through the "moult" it stop laying ,only to begin again after it has grown new feathers and to hasten the process it is recommended that you increase the protein in the feed .So it stands to reason that if you shear mid-lactation would the ewe not direct energy and food intake to regrow it again?


That's a good question and observation. As I don't have and have never dealt with hair sheep I can simply add my questions. For those who have hair sheep, when they begin to lose their hair do you find that you need to supplement their feed because they begin to lose weight? If so then I would say that lactating sheep would need some supplement as well, though a lactating sheep is normally in some supplement anyway so this in itself might be enough to keep the weight on and their milk production at normal levels.


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## Baymule

I have hair sheep and they do not lose weight when they shed. Since I don't have good pasture, they get fed free choice grass hay and a measured amount of pellets.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day Gang,thanks for the links mystang,Andy Karas is in fact a long time member of the LinkedIn group,but i suspect his first priority is "making money " from sheep rather than an interest in the animals themselves.

Your observation on "shedding sheep",in the case of Hair breeds they evolved to naturally "shed" rather than in the case of wool sheep it is forced upon them in what seems to them to be unnatural circumstances and their natural response is to return to what they perceive as a normal situation.The difference i have noticed is that the Assafs have a totally different coat to the Aswassi's.

Please don't underestimate the amount of knowledge you have acquired with your sheep because "stuff" you take for granted will be come as a complete surprise to newcomers to sheep.Although we came to sheep over 20 years ago ,we came from 20 years of raising Goats (milk,meat and fiber) and because there are lots of similarity's between the two species we naturally had a big head start on someone who just purchased their first flock.BTW ,i would never cast judgement on anybody else's stock or methods as everyone comes at sheep from a slightly colored by their environment and stock.I look forward to the pictures "when time permits".

Yesterday the next step in the project was started ,we have a nice line of B.H. Dorpers which have just lambed and i introduced them to 2 young Persian rams which should prove interesting as the Persians carry the "speckle" gene and the dorpers are quite a meaty type.We have more B.H.'s which were joined to the Van Rooys and when they lamb they will join this new mating....T.O.R.


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## mystang89

Ok, so this first picture is the same sheep whose picture I posted already. This is her underside. It's not real great but hopefully it'll give you an idea of what it looks like right now.







This next is a video of the same sheep after the game birth. She had not been sheered in a year. The back side is a bit dirty but that was due to her living conditions which have since improved, not her self.




This is a picture of the Awassi/East Friesian before we purchased her. Her wool though, is of a different texture than my other Awassi's so take it for what it's worth.



Next is a picture from sheering or 75% Awassi. Hopefully you'll be able to tell something from it.



This one is the same sheep.
View attachment 65544 
That is her actual belly, not her honches.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words and a video is worth a million words (actually they don't say that last part but it sounded good,) so hopefully these will speak to you.

Concerning Andy,I agree and that is why I chose not to go with him. I suppose in the end it's "all about the money" but at least with the Larry I felt like he cared a bit more.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thanks for that mystang,i tried the link pic ,but it would not work for me? In the first 2 she looks to be pretty clean along the belly and up the tail.The other ewe at first glance i would say has a "fair cut" of Border Leicester in her,those long curly locks look to be pretty broad "say 36 mic"?

Today's news : the first lamb born of the B.H.Dorper with a Van Rooy ram was born last night it will take a day or so to spot the impact of the VR though.A few more of the "mountain Wiltipol's" were born as well,i will need a day or two to "spot the spots".Have not had a chance to look at the elite group today but will see them tomorrow.

Today's pic's:The first two are out of Awassi ewes and i suspect a W.H.Dorper ram.they are almost 2t and their wool is very short ,with "clean undercarriages".The second one has twins (black and white and white) and i think is the same X as the first.The third pic is a "beauty",Aswassi ewe and ram and a great ewe lamb...hope you enjoy.......T.O.R.

 

 

 .


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## Baymule

Love the lambs! Can’t wait to see more pictures!  You are having fun with all these crosses aren’t you!


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## mystang89

That's the pic that didn't upload properly.

Congrats on the lambs!!


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## B&B Happy goats

Love those lambs


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,now because i am "definitely biased" i want you to be the judge of the lamb pic's.All the lambs are about 24 hrs old ,some a little less some a little more.Can you spot the difference

 

 

 

 in the bodies,between the B.h.'s and the W.H.'s? Also i can see a difference in the tails,can you ?

Checked the Elite group 5 more have lambed ,with 2 sets of twins.There were also a few more in the 2nd class group today.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,the absence was caused by a day in hospital for surgery on one of my "kidney's",i had been waiting for 2 months to be able to get it done and now i have to "rest up" for a week or so before resuming normal work on the farm. 

Lambing goes on with all the groups and due to the existing dry weather the lambs that come out at the other end will be really fine stock.It looks like a nice lot of ewe lambs from the wiltipoll's,next week will see us marking the lambs from the Suffolk x Australian White but they seem to be doing just fine when we drive around.

The introduction of the Persians and the Middle Eastern Milkers has changed the future direction a little and after a chat with the folks from the Painted Desert Sheep people in the US i have started a "new group",The Australian Painted Sheep Discussion Group. As soon as I put it up i had people wanting to join ,they seem like a "fun group" so far.Here is the link if any of you want to join. 
AUSTRALIAN PAINTED SHEEP,DISCUSSION GROUP....................T.O.R.


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## mystang89

Happy to see the surgery went well. Welcome back!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,so today we went to check the elite group,this group is made up of the best shedders in the W. H .Dorpers and a group of Wiltshire Horns.The same stud Wiltipolls joined both groups.But what a difference in the lambs!The mothers are a little to cautious at the minute for pic's,but the difference is astonishing the Wilti over the Horns are as good as we have ever produced even at this early stage.The boning in the forequarters and the muscle over the rump is visible even at this early stage (but a few weeks old).They will come in for "marking" (tails and de-sexing) in about 3 weeks time and then the difference should be really obvious.

Health-wise i am feeling "terrific" after the operation ,but am tempering my excitement so as not to encounter any problems.

The other groups continue to lamb and the twinning rate is greater than we have ever experienced with the new breeds.

The latest Aswssi's lambs are pictured mustang89 will enjoy i am sure ,the white and colored are from a out-cross and the red-head is a pure bred.Hope you all enjoy...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I love the spotted sheep. My Dorper/Katahdin sheep come out spotted, the colors are more fun than plain white. Even with my white registered Katahdin ram, he has a black spot on his ear and his last year's lamb crop had some pretty coloring. I can't wait to see what he produces from my ewes. 

There is a Painted Desert sheep breeder not far from me that posts pictures of lambs for sale on Craigslist. They are some pretty sheep, but I don't want horned sheep. 

It looks like you may start up a new breed, well suited to the climate of Australia, all colored up and pretty to boot. I have to admit, I like eye candy in the pasture!

I am glad that the surgery went well for you. Be sure and take good care of yourself while you heal up.


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## mystang89

Wow! Those lambs look as healthy as can be! That is one of the things I like about the Awassi breed, at least compared to something like the East Friesians is how healthy and stout the lambs look. Nice think feet, well muscled bodies. Other breeds I've seen, though they be healthy, have always seemed a bit thin boned to me, or take a while to fill out.

Those lambs are adorable. I love the coloring and markings on them!

What is the weather there like right now? It is getting close to spring if I'm not mistaken right? I'm just asking because of how short their wool seems to be for the season I thought it was.

I'm very interested in your thoughts on introducing the hair Gene into this breed without losing any of the positive traits such as milk, parasite resistance, health of body. 

Beautiful looking herd.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

I'm very interested in your thoughts on introducing the hair Gene into this breed without losing any of the positive traits such as milk said:
			
		

> Thanks mustang89,so this is my thinking on the subject at this time.Based on the results of somebody's else's trial this is what i propose: Van Rooy ram over Aswssi ewe,Assaf ram over female progeny ,Wiltipol ram over females of the previous mating selecting against excessive woolen coat.
> 
> Yes ,we are in the coolest part of the year at present,frost photo attached,but its our woodland cover which assists the sheep cope i suspect.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi folks ,here is a link for mustang 89.....The guy in this add sold us some of ours including our 3 rams...Take note of the udders on the ewes ..https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/aus...tail-dairy-sheep-breeding-packages/1227578223  T.O.R.


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## mystang89

That's not an utter!!!   THAT'S A TUMOR!!! You got yours from him!? I'm even more jealous! I would pay seriously good money for that!


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## Baymule

Those udders look like a basketball right before it blows up. Wow!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day Mustang 89,would it be possible for you to introduce me to your friend Larry? I would like to pursue the Meatmaster X thing .We already have most of the basics and would appreciate some pointers to travel this path in the future......T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Look out folks, the old ram is contemplating a new change,cant say too much yet but it will be "exciting " for this old farmer anyway.the new project will have two parallel streams and to control this i have enlisted to help of a new Chinese partner to supply RFID ear tags to help manage the project.....T.O.R.


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## frustratedearthmother

Can't wait to hear more details!


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## Baymule

Cliffhanger!!!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,well it is a time of extremes on the farm,"one day its beer and the next day its rum." hope you enjoy...T.O.R


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## mystang89

NOT looking forward to winter. At least that means that spring is right and the corner


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## frustratedearthmother

Quite a change in just a couple of days.  Love the rugged beauty!


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## Baymule

At least the snow will give the land some moisture. Do you get snow very often? How long does it last before it melts? 

Bring on fall/winter! It's been too hot to do much outside and we have a lot to do!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, this was the 2nd heaviest snow fall we have recorded in 20 years.We do not get much in the way of snow (thank heavens) but this lot is more than welcome.With rain and snow-melt we have had 38 mm to date and it has now finished melting on the highest slopes(3 pm).Not a "drop" ran off,such is the absorption nature of our soils now.

No lamb losses that we could find today ,but 2 old ewes did not make it.We will have a closer look at the lambs tomorrow (when the sun is shinning)

Here are the first photos of Tina's new pups,3 weeks old and "fat as seals"....Hope you enjoy ...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

The pups are adorable, so fat and healthy! We get snow every few years, it lasts about 3 days, melts and is gone. Usually get about 3 inches of snow, everything shuts down, we have no snow road equipment and people drive like idiots. 

Sorry for the 2 old ewes that didn't make it. I hope that the snow and cold doesn't affect lambing.


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## Beekissed

Those pups are adorable!!!  Makes ya want to just pick them up and squeeze them.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, i posted this on one of our other sites and thought you folks may have an opinion (BTW ,Bay did comment on the original post),but i am interested in if any of you think there was anything "wrong" in the language i used in the text?

This is a tale of "lust and raging hormones",those of you who have added this site will know of our kelpie dogs and some of their stories.Tina our youngest and is just starting out recently had her first cycle ,we thought we had it under "control",but you know what teenage girls are "like"?So now we have two "gorgeous male pups",one a very light Tan and one solid Red.I will post a pic once their eyes are open.They are both going to become available at about 8 weeks of age.You can PM me if you have an interest.....For more dogie adventures go to ....SHEEP Farmer
SHEEP Farmer
Community · 304 Likes


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## Bruce

Define "wrong". There are some things I would change to make it more readable (at least to me).
Modified: 





The Old Ram-Australia said:


> This is a tale of "lust and raging hormones". Those of you who have added this site will know of our kelpie dogs and some of their stories. Tina is our youngest and is just starting out, she recently had her first cycle. We thought we had it under "control", but you know what teenage girls are "like". So now we have two "gorgeous male pups", one a very light Tan and one solid Red. I will post a pic once their eyes are open. They are both going to become available at about 8 weeks of age.


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## Baymule

T.O.R. posted that on his Facebook page and was told it was offensive. Just knock me gobsmacked, I sure don't see anything to get offended about. We talk about our animals, that includes breeding. Sometimes that includes "oops" breeding, they sure can be sneaky. I don't see anything offensive about this post. Anybody?


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## Beekissed

Could be the use of the words "lust" and the reference to what teenage girls are like, which is a generalization and not very flattering to that age or gender.  

It didn't set off any negative feelings in me, but lots of folks looking for offense out there nowadays.


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## Bruce

I guess Bee could have it. None of it bothered me.


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## Mike CHS

That is another of the snow flakes looking for something to be offended by.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

I'm so "sorry" i did not mean to cause "angst" within the group.The post was a "light heart' ed " response to the situation we were faced with.It was the opportunity for a little"humor" when facing this ongoing "dry ' and the daily tasks of "carting feed and water " to the sheep and the other duties i now face day to day.....Needless to say i will not attempt it again...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

You didn’t bother anyone here. No need to tiptoe on eggshells. We aren’t wearing our tender feelings on our shirt sleeve, hoping someone will offend us so we can make a big deal out of it. We like you just the way you are.


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## Bruce

Yep, no complaints from me.


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## Beekissed

Me neither....the folks on the other place must just have their panties on inside out, is all.


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## Baymule




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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,here are the latest additions to the new flock.Both first time mothers and appear to have everything under control.One is what i describe as an Australian Paint and the other is a full blood Aswssi.

The exiting new news is on hold at the minute as the owner of the new sheep tries to sell them for a higher price than the one i have offered him if he fools around for too long he may find that i will offer him less than the first offer (just kidding,or should that be "lambing")'

Here are the pic's ,will try video in the next post...............T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

The video is on FB now ,how do i get it to you,i have done it before but this time it is being "rejected"...Here is the FB link...T.O.R.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/696393084211734/?ref=group_header


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## Mini Horses

I don't do FB but, wanted to see and video didn't play for me BUT< BUT< BUT...the pic came up and WOW!!! How beautiful are those colorful sheep!!!!    I would buy those in a heartbeat!    Eye candy for sure. 


As to your previous post and those offended, not here!    Possibly they had teen girls and didn't want to "hear it"...    But, all true, all true.   And it made me chuckle.


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## Bruce

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> The video is on FB now ,how do i get it to you,i have done it before but this time it is being "rejected"...Here is the FB link...T.O.R.


No go, FB requires a login to see it. I don't do FB, never have, never will. If I want to show a video I upload it to YouTube then link it here. 

Beautiful animals.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Perhaps Nifty can advise me,it used to work but now it wont ,what am i doing wrong?


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## Baymule

You are doing nothing wrong. if you don't have a FB account, it won't play.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,in the aftermath of the snow it seems we have lost about 8 ewes and a dozen or so lambs.While on the surface this seems a lot but what you have to understand is that of the 150 breeder ewes we have at the minute only 15 are more than 1 generation old on our farm. Because we were buying animals from "far and wide" i now factor in that we will lose the odd one due to the animals inability to cope with the change in feed type and management they have to contend with.This is especially evident in the painted hybrids (Persians) where we have lost 4 newborns in recent days.The new mothers were either too young to have been joined (this happened prior to our purchase) coupled with the change from "pampered living" to our rangeland production system made worse by the snow and cold of recent weeks.We have 2 new lambs that have been taken by a old ewe who has weaned her lamb but i am unsure of the amount of milk she still is producing.Both mothers got them up and gave them their first feed ,but it remains to be seen how they go long term.

On the other hand the Aswssi's are performing so well ,they are still lambing and have not lost one lamb and the earlier ones are growing well in spite of the "tough " paddock conditions and many of them seem to have come from a "shedding background",which i will take advantage of next "joining" they will go to a Van Rooy ram to add some more muscle and shorten the extra leg length they seem to have.

The B. H Dorpers which this year went to the Van Rooy's  are doing really well,all the boys will be "marked" and when weaned will be run together with all of the  "marked " males so a comparison can be judged when they reach "kill weight".This will be achieved by ear tagging with different colors for each mating.The Wilti ewes marked 80% ewes in their lamb drop and tomorrow we will mark the Elite Group which are a mix of Wiltshire Horn and W, H, Dorpers who were joined to our stud Wiltipol rams..pic's to come later..Hope to get the Suffolk's shorn now the last one has lambed,she "skipped" a cycle because she got "fly struck" in the fall and the lambs from the Australian White ram continue to impress in spite of the "tough feed" conditions going forward.

Enough news for now....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

It is tough to lose the ewes and lambs, but I guess it is a situation of the strong surviving. In your conditions, you cannot be coddling weaklings and to allow them to procreate and reproduce would only produce more of the same. The strong will produce strong lambs for you and will do well.

 That is good news about the Awassi. I did not know that they would shed like hair sheep.


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## Beekissed

I'm glad you are not crutching the weak along, but allowing a natural culling system to identify those that do best on your range conditions.   Culling for those that perform best in your area and management style is always the best way to grow a stronger herd or flock.


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## mystang89

Sorry you lost some sheep but I'm glad the Awassi are doing well. Again, that's one thing I love about them, their ability to cope with my ineptness.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, so here is an interesting couple of pic's.You recall that a B.H. Dorper had taken a young hybrid lamb which the mother deserted soon after birth.In the last day or so the "auntie" has stared taking it to its "birth mother" several times a day and mum is feeding it normally,but once it has had a drink "auntie" collects it again and off they go together (BTW ,the lamb is a ewe).What i will be watching is as the lamb grows who will she treat as "mum"?


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## Bruce

That is very curious! 
Perhaps the mother has a job and needs the auntie to do day and night care while she works. Or she's young and wants to party with her friends and not have to watch the child while doing so


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## Mini Horses

It is sad to lose a lamb, more so a mature ewe.  As you & others have said, it's nature and if you raise animals, it happens.

As to the co-parenting -- I find it amazing to watch, even among my few (15).   I've had goats take on another kid and/or perform all mothering duties except feed (which I did!)  Animals are instinctively able to handle things among a herd, quite often.   Not all will do so but, many will.  Those you keep....like nurse maid cattle.

I love those speckled/spotted Persians!   The Awassi -- not a fan of the wool but, I'd sure milk one!!!  It's interesting and informative to watch -- and see -- what you are producing.  Thanks for sharing.


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## Baymule

That is amazing. What a wonder that the lamb was adopted after being rejected by her mother. Even more of a wonder that "auntie" takes her back to her Mom to nurse. That has got to put a big smile on your face.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,so today was shearing day for me,in preparation for this event i saw Charlotte (my Chiropractor) and she "pushed everything back into place for the event.Now i would imagine that a lot of "blokes" my age (now 77) would not even contemplate picking up a "hand-piece" ,let alone actually shearing a mob of sheep ,however small,i only had to do 15  this year because of the change in flock make-up.It took about 2 hours which included packing the wool and cleaning up the board after each one was completed...Here are a couple of pic's...T.O.R.

P.S.there will be another post coming showing the way we set-up the mobile yards now,a shot of the rams as they have come out of winter and a couple of the Elite group with their lambs.


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## Baymule

It only took you 2 hours to shear 15 sheep? The Master at work! It would take me that long to just do one!  You are awesome!


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## Beekissed

I love it that you are shearing your own sheep still!   That's not an easy job and getting them all done in two hours???  May we all be so blessed to be that strong and agile at your age....well....at ANY age.  

Love the pics!   Keep them coming!


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## Bruce

Do you have to go back to the chiropractor after you shear as well? I agree, 15 in 2 hours is pretty darn good. It takes us that long to do one alpaca. 

I like the use of the girth, has to save your back.


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## mystang89

You're welcome to come to the states this spring and do mine too.


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## Beekissed

TOR, what do you do with your wool?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks ,well there are a few questions to be answered in relation to this post.

We used to class our wool into 2 lines and the wool buyer would come and weight it and pay us for our fleece lines a$1.00 a kg and skirting's at $.50 a kg.But this lot is just "too rough" and it will be composted.

I shore 9 and then had a 1 hour break and did the rest.The best i ever did was 30 in 5 hours,but even an average shearer would do that in 2 hours and the same number for the next 3 x 2 hour runs.When i got up this morning i was pretty "tight" in the "hammies" and was glad today was a "rest day",and we just did a hour or so spraying in the afternoon.

I think the reason i can still shear is that i did not start in earnest until i was in my early 60's and by that age most pro shearers have "worn themselves out" doing big runs for 30 or so years.

The back was pretty good this morning so i should be fine,The sling is the best ,its spring loaded and you actually have to push down ,rather than trying to hold your back up on the "blows" close to the floor.Everybody who tries shearing should invest in one of these (there are a couple of types),mine was 2nd hand at a farm clearing sale.

Mustang ,are you kidding me this is why we only have 15 now ,its "damm " hard work at the best of times.

I still have to put the other post together ,it will happen in the next few days......T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,well its day 2 after shearing and am feeling fine and have managed a few hours of weed spraying (with a backpack).
 A week or so now we set up the mobile yards to drench the ewes and to "mark "the lambs in the Elite group (a mix of Wiltshire Horns and W.H. Dorpers).This group is made up of 100% total shedders and have lambed almost 80% ewes. In the background you can see the paddock they have been grazing ,our place is everything this side of the "really green " paddock of our neighbors.But don't be fooled by the green ,up close it is as short as a coat of paint.

1.Mobile yards in "travel mode"...2.The ram group...3.Holding ,forcing and race...4.the find "mum" pen over half of these ewes are feeding twins,but they will soon pick up once the lambs are taken away...I am considering lot feeding the lambs at the end of the month if it does not rain beforehand.


 

 

 



The pic of the rams shows them to be in not "bad shape",if a little scruffy,but the rough wool is not their main attribute.

As you can see the yards are set up as a holding pen ,a forcing pen and a race to undertake the jobs.The next time we use them i will put a gate between the holding pen and the forcing pen to stop them "backing out" when trying to get them into the race.The pen on the R/H side is to let them find "mum" again and to recover from the marking.


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## Baymule

Very cool that your working equipment is portable. With a farm the size of yours, it makes sense to take the working chute to the sheep.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,I thought you might like to comment on this post i put up on our F.B. pages.

MANAGING NON-SEASONAL BREEDS:Are we as farmers working "against nature" when we try to micro manage the breeding of Hair breeds?....Non -seasonal means just that .These breeds have evolved over a couple of 000 years to take advantage of breeding opportunity's from un-seasonal weather events...So it would seem to me that by "micro- managing " these breeds are we not working against the natural scheme of things?....So after the drop of rain last night I will put the nominated rams in with the ewes, except of course for the Suffolk's which are seasonal breeders and a line of Wilipol ewes which are to be sold after their lambs come off of them....We will revisit this post in Feb/Mar 2020 and review the results then.


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## Baymule

Question for discussion; If you leave the ram in with seasonal breeds of sheep, will he breed the ewes anyway?  Are there ever "oops" lambs out of season?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

I would imagine that he can only mate if they season, which because they are seasonal breeders it is extreme unlikely i would think.

What has been the experience of the group?.....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,i thought you might enjoy an update on the Aswssi's. The two groups are now run as one.In the last pic you will notice a "shaggy one" which i think is a Damara x,but has a nice type lamb at foot.......When i get the group in to mark the lambs I will fit an Alpaca comb to the hand-piece which i hope will lift the rough wool up and make removal easy(i hope).

Overall i am pretty happy with these sheep and they will soon be off to a new 30 ac paddock with a good deal of shrubby regrowth and a large stand of Cottonwoods which are suckering and i expect them to control it over summer .the other thing is a Briar Rose which is a nuisance weed across our place....In the last few days we have had the Persians in our house paddock for a couple of hours each day and they have a distinct liking for rose bushes so i hope these do as well.......T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Those are some nice looking sheep.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,So one of the B.H. Dorpers lambed about 36 hours before the photo.Twin rams ,father unknown...Better photo to come....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Also i posted an update on The Creek.The photos titled "Then and Now",have generated a fair bit of interest,so here they are for yourselves....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Seems to be a bit more green now. When was "then"?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bruce,"then" was 2008,this was the beginning of the change in the way we manage the whole farm."Now" was this week in spite of the "current dry",but after 3 weeks from the snow..


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## Bruce

Look real good for a dry time!


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## Baymule

What a difference!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you Bruce,the farm will never return to the bad old days because we now have the knowledge and insights to prevent it from occurring.

At present we are running 1 breeder to 2 acs where as our max is 1 breeder to 1 ac and because of this light stocking we can conserve feed to use in the warmer months if we don't get enough rain in the meantime.Our biggest concern at the minute is the amount of stock-water we have on hand because if we do not get "run-off" rain between now and Xmas we will be faced with an early "turn-off" of stock in Jan/Feb rather than our preferred time of Apr/May for Ramadan...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Wishing for rain to come your way! But not TOO much, plenty of places here have seen the down side of that this year.


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## Baymule

We have finally got rain, we got practically nothing all summer and it was dry, dry, dry. Now that it has rained, the ground is wet and we can get outside and do our fall projects around here. 

You show great wisdom in planning for the dry months and conserving what you have by understocking. The grass looks luxuriant and green. I know it has taken awhile to reach the point where you are now. I love the before and after pictures you post, showing the results of your hard work and planning. 

How is your lovely wife doing? Is the change over to new breeds of sheep keeping her engaged and interested? Prayers for you both in a difficult time.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, i thought you might like to see the mating schedule for the coming season along side the one just passed.

RAMS OVER EWES…to lamb…………………………………..2019……………………………….2020……………………

EWES …………………………………………………………………….RAMS………………………………….RAMS

SUFFOLK………………………………………………………..AUS WHITE……………………………………….VAN ROOY

ELITE……………………………………………………………..WILTIPOL…………………………………………..AUS WHITE

WH/BH. DORPERS……………………………………………WH. DOR/VAN ROOY…………………….WILTIPOL

PERSIAN/B/H. DORPERSUTTON……………………..PERSIAN/B.H.DOR………………………..PERSIAN

DAMARA……………………………………………….WILTIPOL.2…………………………………………….W.H.DORPER

WILTIPOL………………………………………………….WILTIPOL………………………………………VAN ROOY.

AWASSI………………………………………………………AWASSI……………………………………………….AWASSI.

The other thing we have undertaken is the control of a declared Invasive Native Species.We contracted a local chap to undertake the work.It cost $1500.00 per day and took 2 days to complete but the results are astonishing to say the least..Its a 5 ac (approx) paddock and it will now be stocked with about 50 Awassi/mixed breed sheep all of Middle Eastern origin.We will clean-up with "Henry" along with a "fire-stick"  and herbicide to control any re-growth.Here are a couple of before and after.Impressive to say the least i think anyway.The machine was a mid range "track loader" with a full width "mulcher "out front .The young chap made "short work" of the pest species.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bay,Jenny 's condition has progressed somewhat and  she seems to have passed the "meltdown "stage (thankfully).Her short-term memory and processing functions have declined to a large degree along with a sharp decline in her psychical stamina which means we now only do farm work in short bursts of about 1 hour or so,unless it involves the actual sheep work where she can just assist giving me stuff to do the job at hand.All things considered life is going along OK,she is "happy" and that's the main thing for me and things always appear better after a couple of "single Malts" before dinner....T.O.R.


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## mystang89

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> We used to class our wool into 2 lines and the wool buyer would come and weight it and pay us for our fleece lines a$1.00 a kg and skirting's at $.50 a kg.But this lot is just "too rough" and it will be composted.



From my understanding that's what it used to be around here but now it's down to about .10 per pound. Most Shearers say it's just not worth it.

Sorry to hear about Jenny. My heart always hurts when I think about her condition but I'm glad she still has you she can rely on, even if she doesn't always realize it.


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## Bruce

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> The young chap made "short work" of the pest species.


MUCH better. What is that stuff?

 for you and Jenny. Hopefully she is happy in the moment even though she won't necessarily remember it.


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## Baymule

For your sake, I am glad that she is past the melt down stage. She may be getting worse, but at least the melt downs are gone and that makes it a little better for you. God bless you for being such a good man and loving Jenny through thick and thin, sickness and health and being there for her. I have had a front row seat on friends faced with such difficulties and it is all consuming. 

That invasive brush looks rather formidable, glad that you are getting a handle on it. We all seem to have our pasture battles, mine is greenbriar, sumac and trumpet flower vine. The roots go 90 different directions and pop up all over the place.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Kunzea parvifolia (violet kunzea) ,if you do a Google search you can read about it.It is highly invasive and takes over pastures if left un-treated...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I looked it up, it is touted as a lovely shrub for landscaping and is listed as_ non-threatened!_ Seed is listed for sale. Only after I included invasive in the search did information come up on it being out of control. I guess nothing eats it...…. Pretty flowers though. 

 I am very careful to not plant something I will be sorry for later. I research things to death based on toxic and invasive.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,we are about to find out if the Kunzea is a food source for the stock.I know for sure that the Persians will eat it and if "hungry" enough will stop it in its tracks.We will tomorrow be introducing the Aswssi's into this paddock  at 10 to the ac and if need be the Damara's will go in also.When we finish our spraying detail we will start on cleaning up the bits the machine was unable to reach.I guess we have a wait of about 3 months to access the results.There are 2 other option we have to control the regrowth ,one is with herbicides and the other is using a "fire-stick" to kill the new shoots.

This last week i spent a little time looking at potential new markets for lambs.One i am considering is for the "spit-roast" area and while chatting to a butcher he told me of another for lambs that dress around the 14 kg mark ,now 14 kg's are what were described in the "old days" as Lantern lambs,because if you held a light up inside the carcass you could "see straight though it".But as the butcher explained the Italian /Greek have a liking for Pizza oven roasting and the simply cut a full lamb into 4 and roast it in the Pizza oven and prefer a "low fat" body.Have any of you looked into or had experience with this type of sale?Because the spit roast lamb needs to be 18/20 kg and about score 3  this alternate market may be easier for some and less costly to produce...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

14 kg is a pretty small lamb!


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## Baymule

It is good to diversify your marketing. What does a spit roast lamb sell for and what does a lantern lamb sell for? How does that compare to your normal sales? 

We are taking 6 lambs to slaughter November 12, USDA inspected slaughter. Then I am going to advertise the meat for sale on various internet sites. I want to build a direct marketing base. We’ll see how it goes. 

My nemesis is green briars. Once we hack them down, the sheep eat the new sprouts and leaves. Over time, the briars finally die out. It sounds like once you can knock down the Kunzea, the sheep will take care of any new sprouts.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you Bruce and Bay.In answer to Bruce it's a 14 kg carcass, but this is where the knowledge of your "costs" come into play.You need to establish what your fixed and variable costs are per breeder unit are.

Say you have a 15 kg lamb (hanging up) and you charge $10.00 a kg that's $150.00 for the lamb in our case our total cost per breeder over a year is about $50.00 per head when we are fully stocked at 1 breeder to the ac,so our margin in that case is very good i am sure you will agree.Currently because of the "dry" we are only running 1 breeder to 2 acs but even then we are on a profit margin of about 30% which is still OK because of the lower workload and the higher lambing % of the new breeds.....We will be retaining about 60% of this years ewe lambs to provide the new base and will progressively sell the ewe lines we have used to produce the new flock base..The thing is when we do get the rain we will be in a position to quickly get to our preferred breeder ewe numbers with stock "born on" our farm....The option of getting the higher weights for the Spit lambs (18/21 kg) will depend on any given season but you have to balance the time taken as the price of $10.00 a kg will most likely still apply.You must remember that we do not intend to ,"direct market" our lambs to end users, but will use the normal selling system or wholesalers,we will however be able to gain a premium on private sales of breeding stock.Which in the past was $300.00 for Rams and $180.00/200.00 for ewes.But this premium is some years off as we breed performance into the new flock.

I M O ,the key is knowing your C.O.P. and using the season to dictate where you best return will be......T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I have tiny green speckles coming up, it is clover! Clover is coming up in pasture #1, 2, the pipeline and our yard. Our front yard is rather large, we left room for truck and trailer turn around and parking to either side. We often turn the sheep out to graze it down. This summer's drought, we just turned the sheep out and never cranked up the mower. We just pulled up the tall weeds the sheep wouldn't eat. I  seeded clovers and non endophyte fescue 2 years ago, it reseeded and came back, that and the sheep eating it and passing the seed out in fertilizer capsules is hopefully resulting in a good stand of winter/spring graze.


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## Bruce

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> I M O ,the key is knowing your C.O.P. and using the season to dictate where you best return will be......T.O.R.


Yep, can't make money if you don't even know what it costs to get the product to market. You clearly have thought this through.


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## mystang89

Baymule said:


> we just turned the sheep out and never cranked up the mower.



How in this world did you keep them from eating the landscaping you actually wanted to keep!? We had a couple times when the sheep made it to the front yard and it's those times you saw me running out like a crazy man, eyes bulging, arms flailing. Lol


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## Baymule

mystang89 said:


> How in this world did you keep them from eating the landscaping you actually wanted to keep!? We had a couple times when the sheep made it to the front yard and it's those times you saw me running out like a crazy man, eyes bulging, arms flailing. Lol


I guess you think I actually have landscaping.  We have a few fruit trees, they had wire cages around them until they got big enough that the sheep couldn't eat the tops out of them. We don't even have lawn grass. Anything the sheep can find to eat, it's fair game. All we have done since we moved here, is build barns, fence, cross fence, clear land and try to get pasture grass growing. Notice I said pasture and not lawn? I have a big pile of rocks that will someday be used to make flowerbeds. So landscaping is on my radar, but it's pretty far out, almost off the screen.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Have to agree with you Bay.The area around our house is a Native meadow and in the tough feed time at the minute we have 2 groups of sheep consuming it.The trees and schrubs are ibn the main taller than the sheep can reach (even the Damara x's )which can balance on their hind legs just like a goat to reach as high as they can.The way things are at the minute we may not even have to mow the one time we usually do this year...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Today the ewes and new lambs spent the day in the yard. it's probably about an acre. They chowed down on the acorns, I could hear them crunching. They found crabgrass that the recent rains revived and ate that. I don't know what all they found to eat, but they were busy at it all day, had bulging bellies when I called them to the barn.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,life has got very busy on the farm in recent weeks.This week another of our dams went "dry" and we are now carrying about 200 gals of water in drums for several of the groups .In spite of the ever growing dry the lambs from this years mating continue to do well although there is quite some difference in the way they are growing,but it means that we will have a very nice line of ewe lambs to take forward to join this time next year.The decision to direct different colors showing sire and dam on the ewe lambs has proven to be a "great one"and will make life a lot easier later on i am sure.

The outlook for summer rain is not "great" according to the BOM but as long as our remaining dams hold up we should be OK as the new breeds seem to be capable of holding on with the "dry feed" we have at present and still rear a lamb (or in some cases twins).The plan going forward is if we do not get rain in the run-up to Ramadan we will "lot feed" the boys for 60 days on a mix of Lupins, Rolled Barley and Alfalfa chaff at a cost of about $800.00,but the price premium should cover it OK .

A couple of pic's.1. Edgar who went to the Suffolk's is going to the Elites next joining,as you can see in spite of the "dry feed" he is holding his condition OK...2.The Elite group with their lambs at the minute.It's worth noting the difference in 2 weeks of "hot ,dry winds"......T.O.R.


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## Baymule

As we go into fall and winter, you go into summer. We get rains and the northern areas get snow, although we here in northeast Texas are still dry. 

You are breeding a composite sheep that is suited to your seasons, weather, wet or dry. I am watching with great interest!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, here is an interesting comparison,2009 and today.So what changed in the last 10 years?

The management of the whole farm was turned upside down.The number of paddocks was increased by about 30%,each paddock has a "grazing budget" of around 200 days depending on the season we are faced with.There is in fact not one paddock which has less than over 95% ground cover,so when it does eventually rain our paddocks will "burst" into life as soon as it stops.This has been the key to "saving" our farm from the ravages of drought.....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

What changed? Well for one thing it looks like you grew a lot of rocks   
I hope you get more rain than they are forecasting!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

HaHaHa Bruce,the now photo was taken from a different angle,here is the NOW photo from the same point...T.O.R


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, thought you might enjoy a few sheep pic's.The B.H. Dorpers were mated with a South African Van Rooy,note the hind and tail.The "mob" of W.H Dorpers were joined to a "clean shedding" Dorper ram.It's tough feed at the minute ,but the ewes and lambs look OK to me?T.O.R.


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## Beekissed

They look great to me!   Is that your winter stock piled range?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bee,not sure i understand ? In the flock shot up until 3 weeks ago it was quite green,the "tall stalk stuff" is a Spear grass and its seed is a curse in the wool,but the new flock "love it" and will reduce its spread over time i expect.

These pics on FB drew response from Africa and the USA, are any of the group in or near Portland ,Oregon?..T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Your sheep look great. They are in good condition, the lambs look good too!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,i thought an update on the "big dry" and the plans going forward would be of interest.

First the pics,this week we started "hand-feeding",this large square bale cost $440.00 ,its Vetch and weighs about 750/800 kgs. The next two shown the result of the "hot ,dry winds" we have had over the last week or so.

Here is the plan going forward assuming we do not get any reliving rain.To have the ewes ready to join next year if we do get a break is $500.00 per week or $6K for 3 months.To finish the lambs for 60 days is another $1K. I consider this type of planning essential if your farm is run as a business..T.O.R.





.


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## Baymule

I converted Kgs to pounds, US. 800 Kgs equals 1,763 pounds. We buy round bales that weigh in at 1200-1400 pounds of Bermuda hay, horse quality, for $55. Our hay guy keeps it in his barn and delivers it to us a bale at a time, as needed. We pay $50-$65 per bale, depending on fuel cost, fertilizer and lease (for the land) costs. Sometimes first cutting will have clovers, rye grass and hairy vetch in it. 

A desirable hay is Alfalfa, which is a cool season hay and more expensive than Bermuda hay. It must be purchased wisely as Alfalfa has blister beetles in it in the warmer states. Blister beetles secrete a toxic substance to horses, as they crawl over the living alfalfa plants. Horses will die a horrible death if they eat anything with blister beetles in it, including the secretions and the blister beetles themselves, trapped by the baling process. It does not effect cattle, don't know about sheep or goats. 

For the horses, it goes in a horse round bale ring, outside, for the sheep, it goes under their roof in their barn, I put sections of cow panels around it, cow panels have 6" square holes, the ewes and lambs can stick their heads through, but the ram's head is too large. As they eat the bale, I have to pull hay off the top and put it up against the cow panels so the sheep can reach it. I make sure the ram has plenty against the panel so he can reach all he wants. My homemade hay square feeder is accessible to two pens and one pasture. 

Horse quality hay is a higher quality hay than cow hay. Cows will eat practically anything, horses are more finicky. Cows will eat Johnson grass, a sorgum or type of sudan grass, horses won't. Johnson grass is considered an invasive, a blessing to some, a curse to others. I sure don't want it! 

I converted USD money to AUD. $55 in USD equals $81 in AUD. Dang! you are paying a LOT for hay! How far is it shipped and where does it come from?

I checked on alfalfa hay prices,a load shipped in on a truck from Colorado. A 1500 square bale is $200, USD.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day,our hay came by road from South Australia,about 800 miles away.this added to the cost because you had to pay the cost of the return trip.

The bales opened up and are great green and fresh.We hope we can get this stuff for the duration until it rains even at the current cost.I will post a pic of the hay tomorrow...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I hope you can keep getting this hay too! Do you have a hay barn to store it in so you can buy more while it is available? We had a very bad drought in 2011-2012, so bad that trees died. Grass will come back in a season, but the trees! Hay had to be trucked in, round bale prices went to $125 and up. We were fortunate to find round bales for $80. 

It is typical here to buy enough to last the winter. We buy a year's supply, usually second cutting. This year, we bought 10 more, late cutting, that is some very nice hay. Our hay man stores it in his barn and brings it to us as needed. We are BLESSED! We don't have a tractor big enough to pic up a round bale.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks ,its a bit on the "smokey side " today,Fires are away to the East of us at the minute....Here is how that hay looks when the bale is open.

Generally speaking storing hay for us just "ties up capital"and long term storage means that it deteriorates



 and the feed value is lost.,along with the fact that we cannot handle 800 kg bales,i just get them loaded into the trailer and feed them out from that...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

The fires are too close!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bay, its about 40 k m's "as the crow flies"to the fires, so i think we are "pretty safe"...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

The fires have made the news here. There is a film clip of a woman taking her shirt off to smother out flames on a koala and wrapping him up. He later died. Sad. 

Hope the fires stay far far away from you.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, a large fire had started away to the west of our farm several days ago in a National park,but yesterday afternoon it came out of the forest and started in open country.By sunset we could see it from the house it was about 30 kms from the farm and about 10 pm a small fire started about 10 k ms from us and about midnight we drove in towards Braidwood to access, but it had been contained (thank heavens)...From reports the fire is under control and no longer a "threat", it has burnt about 50,000 acs to date....We are expecting a wind change today along with the chance of some rain ,but next week will be "hot and windy " they say......The other day i rang a neighbor and said if he was in the path of a fire from the East he should move all his stock about the 2 kms to our place in "park" them in a pretty safe paddock of ours,which although there is not much feed the water will last about a week.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Fires are terrible things. Fires take everything and leave nothing. I pray that you and Jenny stay safe and that the fires don't come near your farm.

Thanks for keeping us updated.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,the fires continue to "ravage" the areas surrounding us.The largest one to the east of our farm now covers 250.000 acs,early in the piece it was coming towards us but a 3 day wind change has turned it back on itself and it will now not stop until it reaches the ocean.The fire to the west is now moving south away from us ,but is out of control and several friends of ours are in its path....We were alerted to two small fires which were quickly controlled over the last couple of days and the only" saving grace" is the fact that on the farms that surround us there is little left to burn because the livestock have consumed everything .....There is however a large patch of bushy lands near to the east which we must keep an eye on.

The flock is now condensed into two groups which we feed hay out to every morning ,but the need to cart water has ceased as both groups have access to dams with water in them.We are lucky that the weather has been cool ,but this is about to change we move through the weekend.The worst thing is, is the "bloody flies"who as soon as you walk out the door swarm all over you...Til the next update hope you are all doing OK as you approach your winter.T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I'm sorry, but the "bloody flies" made me laugh. We have the delightful "bloody mosquitoes"


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## Bruce

I hope the fire can be kept away from people's homes and other structures!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day gang,i have posted the following on our FB page and thought you all may have a view on the subject.Hope you find the ideas of interest.....T.O.R.

EARLY WEANING:Yes or No?
Many farmers i am sure are looking to this option at the moment,but here is my take in our current situation.As many of you are aware we are "transitioning" from a seasonal breed to a non-seasonal type,so here is my take on the situation. Previously we had a "window" for joining and if the ewes were not forward enough it impacted the lambing % and so removing the lambs early had merit so the ewes were forward enough for the next mating......I expect with the "new" breeds that they will not cycle until we get a break(point yet to be proven).Our future breeders are drawn from the top 25% of our ewe lamb drop and apart from the joining period the replacement ewe lambs are run right up to and including the arrival of the next lamb drop,so the following year when their own lambs arrive it is not a" surprise"....There is held within a "mixed age" breeding flock of ewes a vast array of flock knowledge and this is passed down from one generation to the next and so it would be natural to assume if the replacement ewe lambs lose contact with their mothers and the flock this new group will have to start from"scratch" to learn the lie of the land......If you draw a comparison between a 4/7 year old human child,which is suddenly taken away from their parents and deposited in a completely strange environmental what the social and emotional impacts are? So why would it not be different for livestock?......At present all the lambs are running with there mothers,Rams are in the two groups but next years lambing will be a bit" hit and miss" with regard to the planned outcomes i had in mind......So this is the plan going forward,we expect to be feeding the flock until the end of Feb at a rate of about 1000 kg of hay per week,(currently is better than average Vetch coming from South Australia) and this seems to be holding them "condition wise" OK.When we come out of this we will "cull " 20% of the breeders which may have struggled with the conditions and as usual the top 25% of the ewe lambs will be retained....I look forward to comments on the ideas and views expressed above and "don't" be afraid to put forward an opposing view.


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## Bruce

How are the fires Old Ram? Heard this morning the one approaching Sidney is massive.


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## Baymule

I like the idea of running the ewe lambs with the ewe flock, even when the ewes are lambing. I do pretty much the same thing. I separate lambs at 3-4 months to wean them and let their moms get back in condition for breeding. If I put the ewe lambs back with the flock after weaning, I take them back out before I put the ram in so they don't get bred too young. 

I castrate ram lambs because it is easier. If not castrated, I have to wean at 2 months old, then keep the ram lambs separate from the ewe lambs because at 2 months old, the ram lambs can and will breed. The little stinkers will stick their noses up in the ewes lady business at 28 days old! 

I never thought about the ewe lambs learning by watching the older ewes lamb. That makes sense. What age do you breed the ewe lambs?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bruce,There are a group of fires north of Sydney totaling about 1,000,000 acs currently and they expect this weeks weather to be quite confronting.Our local fire to the East is still about 10 kms away and we are hopeful they can hold it at about 5 kms away,but its a wait and see situation at the minute.

Bay, in response to your question.We allow "natural weaning " wherever possible,the ewes just seem to naturally "dry off".We joined to lamb when they are almost 2 years old in the old flock ,but the new breeds are a different thing altogether and we will learn as we go along i guess,but in the long term i think we could be joining at 12/14 months of age when we access who will go forward into the breeding program.For the next couple of years we will be concentrating on the new ewe flock and all males will be "marked" and new sires purchased as required...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I breed my Katahdin hair sheep ewes at 10 months old. Some people breed earlier than that.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bay, that's interesting ,do you encounter any first timers problems?  How quick do they recycle and go into lamb again?.......The way i look at it ,these days girls reach puberty at 12 years of age ,does that mean they should get pregnant? I apply the same rationale to the sheep.....T.O.R.


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## Beekissed

Around here folks breed Katahdins at 7 mo. if they are big enough to carry a lamb.


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## Baymule

No first timer problems. They know what to do. I can’t leave the ram with them after lambing, the ewes will breed back 6 weeks after lambing. I have had a couple of “oops” lambs because I didn’t take him out soon enough. I suppose the ewe lambs would breed at a very young age, so I keep them separate until 10 months.


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## Mike CHS

We breed at 7 months at a minimum as long as they are at least 90 pounds when we let them in with the ram. and most are at 100 lbs plus.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> We breed at 7 months at a minimum as long as they are at least 90 pounds when we let them in with the ram. and most are at 100 lbs plus.



That's here too....if they are 2/3 or greater of their adult wt./size they are bred at 7 mo.  Anything without that level of growth and potential growth would be a cull anyway, so it all works out.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks and thank for your reply's.

Here is a fire update,the fire to the west is now in a control phase.....The fire to the east has in the main moved north away from presenting immediate danger to us.It is a fact that these two fire s will burn for "months" until we get a decent fall of rain,which they are predicting will not happen until maybe the end of February...We will have to start carting water for the sheep after xmas and buying  household water in January...The cost for house water is Au $400 .00 for 2,000 gals...We are allowed to collect 1000 lts per day for stock water (at the minute,stage 3 water restrictions apply to our area at the minute).

We can only "hope and pray" for some rain in the meantime....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

There is no ground water where you are, is there. So no drilling a well. Do you have a cistern for collecting rain water? I pray that you get rain soon. What is your annual rainfall?


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## Ridgetop

Exciting purchase especially since you have a new Wether market readymade!  Heavy milking ewes mean you can market a good percentage of lambs straight from their moms without having to wean and feed out. Can’t wait to hear how this goes. What were his Wether specs?  Weight, age?


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## Ridgetop

We are on water restrictions here too. Been getting some rain though. Hope for lots more.


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## Bruce

Got plenty when I was there last month Ridge!!

$5/gallon for water?   My 23 chickens are drinking a gallon a day. I don't see how anyone could raise sheep with water costing that much. And it must be spit baths for the humans. I sure hope you get rain soon.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you for your reply's.Hi Bay, we store 30,000 gals when all the tanks are full,normal rain is 300/500 ml per year.This year will be since i cannot remember when we last purchased water it must be between 30/40 years ago.

Hi Bruce,we have two options for water at the present,the "free" water comes from the town supply and we can get about 250 gals per day,but it costs about a$10..00 in fuel to get it and bring it home,but the quality is "terrible" because of the smoke,ash and pollutants there is so much Chlorine in it that it must be "aired" for a few days before use on the stock. The other option is the 2000 gal for A$400 will come from a "tested bore",i am told that the guy that owns it has been drinking it for 20 years so it should be OK.

Hi Ridge,when it finally "rains" and we go back onto grass feeding things should work out.The prime supply time is the end of Ramadan,and the market i think will be for any size,weight and  age will be in demand.Like many cultures who rely on trading they can be hard bargainer's,but if you have the "right" goods and supply is tight you have the "whip hand", but only time and experience will determine the outcome.In spite of the drought many of our ewe flock are showing and i would not be surprised to get a substantial lambing in Jan and if it rains we will have some very nice lines for sale next year.(well here's hoping anyway).....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

We live in an area of abundant water. There is water 30' down on our place, however the best water is 600' down. If all we wanted was water for livestock, a shallow well would do it. There are lots of springs in this area, they feed the creeks. In wet weather, there are "seeps" on our land, water oozes from the ground, it makes enough to have running water in a gully that goes across our land. It dries up when the rains stop.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

We have on our place a number of what are usually very reliable springs,but this "dry spell" has gone on foe so long now they are exhausted it seems and i am loath to start digging with "Henry" lest i seal them up and lose them altogether .I did explore one of them and at the end of the reach i did find what seemed to be a very clean source,which i may be able to "pipe" at a later date when the flow is restored.

I took a couple of interesting pic's today of one of our paddocks which we can "chat" about next time i have some time at my disposal.

The fire to the east picked up again today,it was reported they were doing some "back-burning" in advance of some tough weather later this week,but the winds gusted above 50 kms an hour and i think things got a little out of hand(have a few pic's of that also to post next time)......T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> In wet weather, there are "seeps" on our land, water oozes from the ground, it makes enough to have running water in a gully that goes across our land. It dries up when the rains stop.


Sounds like what I have just south of the pond behind the barn. Makes for quite a mushy area though not large. I'm pondering digging a large hole and trench, filling the hole with stone and pipe from there to the pond.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bruce, that sounds like it could work.How about a pic of the pond and the wet section .How far from the wet spot to the pond?Care must be taken in the wet spot so as not to seal it up.Can you tell from the surface which direction the water flows?...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

The wet spot is basically where a line from the gate on the left running to the little barn would intersect with a line running along the right side of the pond. When there is enough "wet" a small trickle will form on the pond side of that gray rectangle area and make its way to the pond. That area has always been squishy, I don't think it had a path to the pond. It is weird as there is no obvious "this is where the water comes up" spot, Before I dug the pond out I don't recall seeing this rivulet so I likely compressed the ground enough to make a slight downhill slope. This Google image is from before I dug it out, it is now the same shape just deeper. All that green at the bottom surrounded by brown is algae and grasses.

Lots of clay here, not sure if digging a hole in it and filling with stone would seal it up, that wouldn't gain me much would it! There is a piece of bent pipe sticking out of the ground about a foot, doesn't seem to be connected to anything, I can turn it around. I'm wondering if someone in the past drained the area and someone else managed to break the pipe and removed most of it.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

OK, do you have an auger? (hand one preferably)The wider the better, they are capable of digging a 2 ft hole usually.In the center of the wet spot "drill a hole" leave it overnight and see if it fills with water,take a glass jar full and let it stand overnight.any sediment,off smells or discoloration?Perhaps your local Peale could test it for you.Test the flow with a little pump,it is possible you could set up a siphon using a narrow plastic pipe which equals the re-fill rate....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

I have a nice 8" (that is 20.3 cm for you people who rightly tossed the old system way back) auger for the 3 point hitch on my tractor. Haven't used it yet, that could be a good first use since I need to practice drilling straight holes before I go putting in fence posts. I wonder how far down I would get before hitting rock. Way too much of that here.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

That should be OK, careful you don't "lose" the tractor in the bog though......T.O.R.


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## Bruce

It is quite small, I drive through it all the time when I need to go out that gate.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day ,as promised here amongest some other "stuff" is a couple of pic's of the fires...The first 2 are of the fire to the East ,about 10 kms away...The next one is of the fire coming from the West,again the fire was about 10 kms away...

So here we are a few days later the fire to the West is "quiet" at present and the one to the East is making it's way North and away from us.

The next item is about a paddock of about 50 acs which we split about 15 years ago via a program with our State Govt.20 acs was fenced off to protect and restore a "water-shed" area of old growth euc's and She Oaks which are a feed source for a local endangered parrot species(Glossy Black's).For the first 5 years we were only able to have stock in the restored area for 2 X 2 weeks each year.Since then we try to only use in extremes of weather as their is "no" water supply in the paddock.In the 2 pic's the restored area is above the fence line and has not been grazed for over a year,but when it rains (finally) the dead long growth will absorb any heavy rain event and protect the lower slope for any loss of top-soil and nutrient load,also it will be the first to come-away and we will be able to graze while the other paddocks re-grow.

The next item is a look at one of our more unusual sheep x's,mother is B H Dorper over Suffolk ewe,she was joined to an Australian White Ram,one of the lambs is "jet black" and the other is white with a "broken face" and the rear is a really good "shape" considering the feed conditions it shows a lot of promise in a normal season.

The last 2 pic's are of the parrots mentioned above....Hope you all enjoy the post ......T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Sorry about the doubling up of the pic's.How do i edit them down to 1 copy of each?...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Painfully?? Mark them in the edit window and delete. It SHOULD only remove the one marked.

Those black hills are heartbreaking. How long will it take for them to recover once the fires die and you get a bit (but not too much at a time!) of rain?

Are those parrots on your property? Sure doesn't look like any Eucalyptus or oak I've ever seen, looks like a pine.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thanks Bruce ,as you can see it deleted both copies.However I will re-post them later and reply to your comments..T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Take 2. Hope they come up as a full image OK . In the "old" system it was so easy to edit pic's(i guess we will all just have to adapt ).

Recovery of the old forests will take years,because of the way the burnt trees re-shoot.Some trunks will never recover such was the heat of the fires.

Yes, the bird pic's were taken on our place.Quite a lot of our place is a "feeding station" for adults and adults with just fledged young.The tree species is one of the Casuarina's (if you search Glossy Black Parrot you can get the exalt one ) they are a great small tree for very dry conditions and the "needle" drop protects the soil around them.


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## Baymule

So some of the trees will sprout back out from the roots? What about  seed bank in the soil? Here, we have lots of pine and oak forests, when they burn, it doesn't take long for new seedlings to show up. In the managed forests, they get replanted quickly, in the fall and winter. Will seeds in the soil come up and repopulate the forest?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bay,in a normal "cool burn",you thoughts would apply,but these current ones are "so hot" it remains to be seen .Much of what you can see is National Parks and inaccessible at that.They are not allowed by the environmentalists to put in roads or to even maintain any old ones and so this is the result you get.

They complain about sheep and cattle "farting"effecting global warming,up north we have one fire of over 1 million acs and the question is"how much carbon is being released into the atmosphere?".....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

And this morning I heard on the BBC that Australia recorded its highest temperature ever yesterday. They didn't say where.


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## Baymule

Yeah, we get the cow farts thing too. Funny, the millions and millions of bison that roamed the country before we shot them all and replaced them with cattle are never mentioned. Surely they farted too! We have fires that are destructive because the underbrush is allowed to build up. Idiots.


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## High Desert Cowboy

I completely understand the problem with environmentalists.  We’ve had problems with those dang bark beetles killing scores of trees and brush buildups around the base but heaven forbid someone go in there and try to clear it out!  And every year we get some pretty ugly fires when lightening strikes and it all starts burning.  Then you think of the millions spent fighting the fire and afterwards there is nothing left.  With logging and grazing you are diminishing the risk of fire while at the same time generating revenue.  But hey, the environmentalists aren’t personally footing the bill so what do they care.  Here in the western US the worst pests we have are environmental activists.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

As i understand it it was the average across the whole of Australia and they expect to break that tomorrow.I think the hottest was just short of 50 c in parts of the "outback".....


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## Bruce

Ah, that's nothing!!   

"The hottest air temperature ever recorded in Death Valley was *134 °F* (*56.7 °C*) on July 10, 1913, at Greenland Ranch (now Furnace Creek), which is the highest atmospheric temperature ever recorded on earth."

OK, I wouldn't want to experience either temperature!!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, we hope you have had a n enjoyable festive season and that the New Year brings you all the good "stuff" you desire.

Here is an update on the fires.In NSW the fire has burnt 3 million ha (about 7.5 million acs) most of it up and down the East coast.currently we have fire fronts on 3 sides of us ,but still quite some distance from the home farm.As some of you will be aware we also have another farm some distance away of about 200 acs,our current expectation is that the whole of this farm will be consumed by an approaching fire front in the next 5 or so days.However we do not have any livestock on it so it will be the shack. sheds and fencing which will be lost we expect.

The entire flock has now been gathered together as one group for ease of feeding and to access safe water at the moment we are feeding about 800 kg of hay a week ,which seems to be sufficient to keep them from "slipping" in condition,in fact it is possible that by the end of Jan we are going to have a "drop" of new lambs.

We recently purchased 12,200 lts of water for our house supply ($400.00) from a local bore,the chap and his family have been drinking it for 25 years and his father before him.There are some horrific prices being quoted for the supply of water to the district,$1200.00 for 20,000 lts and $750.00 for the 12,000 load,so i think we were pretty lucky with our lot.We are also able to pickup 1000 lts per day in a "pod" from the supply in town foe our emergency tank of 8,000 lts which is now about half full, but we expect to go onto stage 4 water restrictions in two weeks so that will be the end of that i think.

Anyway Xmas was a nice break for us and we spent 2 days at our daughters place even though they had had a "close call" with a bad fire quite close to both them and our grandson's house.It was a nice break from the farm ,sheep feeding and watering and the constant smell of smoke in the air........T.O.R.


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## Baymule

That is terrible, I am so sorry that you and your country is going through these fires. Fire consumes everything, takes it all, leaving nothing. I m glad that you have secured water and I hope that it will take you through the drought.


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## Bruce

Those fires are awful, no decent rain in sight.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, I am sad to say that it seems that last night our 200 ac farm was "lost" to the fire which is raging through the district.......At this point of time the Home farm is safe and our house is capable of being defended with our existing water storage's.Plans are in place to save the flock in the event that we are in the path of an oncoming fire front.

We have been a little "overwhelmed" by the gifts from strangers,the local C W A (Country Women's Association)called and gave us a hamper for Xmas.A group from Canberra offered us and others a gift of feed for the dogs and stock and we also were given a box of grocery items.

It spite of everything we are in "good spirits",helped of course by a daily dose of a good Single Malt or a Small batch Bur bun after a full day of feeding and watering the flock,it is worth noting that the other day the temperature reached 40 c and as we are watering the flock in troughs now they consumed 1000 lts over that day.Currently we are driving into the village each day and collecting a ration of 1000 lts of water most of which we are trying to store to help the defend our house if the fires come....We will update the group as news come to hand.....T.O.R.


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## Beekissed

I'm so sorry.     I can't even imagine what that would be like but my heart goes out to you.


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## B&B Happy goats

😥 I am so sorry for you and everyone that is dealing with the fires, your spirit sounds strong, although your heart must ache


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## frustratedearthmother

Tough times you're facing right now.  Hope the fire stays away and that you and yours stay safe!


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## Bruce

Very sorry about the "lost" farm but glad the home farm is still safe. I just can't imagine how bad it is with all the fires and not even into the hottest part of the year yet.


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## Baymule

My heart breaks for you and many others affected by these fires. First thought I had is your dear wife. How is the beautiful lady of your heart handling all this upheaval?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,here is another update.For the first time this morning the local radio suggested that folks in our area start to plan for the possibility of an approaching fire front.For some weeks now i have been of the opinion that our biggest danger is from a fire front which will come from the area NW/NE of us,so today i did a "risk assessment" of the home farm using satellite imagery and local knowledge and had a chap from the local RFS(Rural Fire Service) look at what i had come up with....In the worst case a "hot fire" will burn about 120 acs of woodland and maybe 80 acs of grassland.He stated that our house was one of the most easily defended by us and with the help of our local fire truck..As previously stated we have already plans in place for the flock, so we should be O K in the event of a fire coming towards us.

Anyway this is how things stand at the moment and we will be sure to let you know how things turn out.Jenny and myself are (i think ) coping really well with things as they stand,but as time goes on the uncertainty of the future is to say the least a little "wearing emotionally".

We thank you all for your support and good wishes as we face what is an uncertain future......T.O.R and Jenny.


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## Baymule

Can you post from your cell phone? Power lines and power poles will burn and may cut off the electricity to your home. Keep your cell phones charged and hopefully cell towers won't be destroyed. I haven't ever had to run from fire, but have weathered a lot of hurricanes with the resulting loss of power for weeks afterwards. I always had a text friend away from the hurricane area that was on the forums I frequented so that they could give updates for me. That was before smart phones LOL. If possible, maybe you could have a friend post to your Facebook page for you if you are unable to do so, then your friends can keep up with you. 

In 2011, Texas had a record breaking drought and over 31,000 fires that destroyed over 4,000,000 acres and almost 3,000 homes. We were not personally affected but knew people who lost everything. 

I guess you have bags packed with important papers, clothing, a few items that are treasured by you and Jenny. I hope you don't have to run for your life, but it is better to have things ready to grab and throw in the truck. 

Praying for you.


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## Bruce

Best of luck TOR! It is good to know that your place is potentially defendable should the fire take aim at you.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,It would appear we have survived the worst possible conditions today.The predicted s/e change came through at about 6.45 pm with winds about 60/80 kms per hour.At present we have smoke from the fires N/E of us but "no " ash or burning debris.We have two trailers each with 1000 lts to contain spot fires if they start,but we should be OK tonight and tomorrow promises to be calmer.All of the flock are around the house with adequate feed and water...More updates as things change ...Thank you all for your messages and prayers for our safety and well being.....Frank and Jenny. 

We had a daughter out yesterday and she is coming back tomorrow for a few days,Our grandson came this morning to drop off a small generator to run a pump for the trailers,and while he was here helped me feed the sheep for today ,before he returned to his house as a fire was threatening it.It was 42 c today and on one water trough the sheep drank over 2000 lts ,a nearby neighbor has offered me 24000 lts from his house tanks if we need it,hopefully we get some of the forecast  rain in the next few days......T.O.R. and Jenny.

P.S. will post a few photos tomorrow (hopefully).


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## B&B Happy goats

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day folks,It would appear we have survived the worst possible conditions today.The predicted s/e change came through at about 6.45 pm with winds about 60/80 kms per hour.At present we have smoke from the fires N/E of us but "no " ash or burning debris.We have two trailers each with 1000 lts to contain spot fires if they start,but we should be OK tonight and tomorrow promises to be calmer.All of the flock are around the house with adequate feed and water...More updates as things change ...Thank you all for your messages and prayers for our safety and well being.....Frank and Jenny.
> 
> We had a daughter out yesterday and she is coming back tomorrow for a few days,Our grandson came this morning to drop off a small generator to run a pump for the trailers,and while he was here helped me feed the sheep for today ,before he returned to his house as a fire was threatening it.It was 42 c today and on one water trough the sheep drank over 2000 lts ,a nearby neighbor has offered me 24000 lts from his house tanks if we need it,hopefully we get some of the forecast  rain in the next few days......T.O.R. and Jenny.
> 
> P.S. will post a few photos tomorrow (hopefully).


 praying for you all


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## Baymule

I continue to pray that you and Jenny are spared. I pray that you and all affected and in danger from the fires receive rain. Thank you for checking in to let us know that you are ok.


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## Hens and Roos

Praying that you get the needed rain


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## Bruce

Hopefully these fires will pass you by. Torrential rain and floods in Indonesia and not a drop in fire ravaged Australia. Sure would be nice if we could even that out.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, after a few nervous nights and days i think we have managed to "dodge a bullet" from the two closest fire fronts for the time being.the next week looks as though things will have calmed down (thank heavens,) before it all starts again.....

The prospect for some rain is looking a little better i suspect,the late arrival of the northern Monsoon could deliver us some much needed moisture in the near future ( say over the next 3 weeks).I haven't forgotten those pic's just have not had the chance to download them,but we will get there don't worry.......T.O.R.and Jenny.


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## Beekissed

That's wonderful news!!!!  So happy for you and yours, TOR.


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## Baymule

I am relieved that you and Jenny are ok. The news and videos posted online are awful. A bunch of American firefighters landed in Sidney and everyone in the airport clapped applause for them, just grateful. Praying for rain for y'all.


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## B&B Happy goats

Great newsTOR,....we have been watching the horrific  fires on the news and are so happy you and Jenny are safe.


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## Bruce

I'm glad you have been spared from the close fires so far, I sure hope that continues. 

I was thinking about you this morning while listening to the BBC. They were talking about how the smoke from the  fires can start thunderstorms which actually make the fires WORSE because the rain that falls evaporates in the heat but cools the air higher up which increases the winds. And then there are the lightning strikes that can start yet more fires 

Take care!!!


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## Hens and Roos

So glad to hear


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,this update is mostly "good news" with regard to the fires approaching the "home farm".This morning i was advised by the local R.F.S. that the fires are now under control.

For those of you with F.B.i have just posted on recent events which i will repeat on BYH along with a lot of pics.Hope you all enjoy.

G'day guys,the first post shows "hay feeding" ,our daughter (Nicole) came out for a few days to give us a hand.In the last pic it shows Nic has lost "none" of her mustering skills as she guides a ewe with twin lambs out of a gully and back to the rest of the flock.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

POST 2.The fire at Tomboyne .neighbors tell us the fire went through our 200 acs twice and in parts 3 times.We still have not covered the whole of the boundary yet.We are applying for "clean-up" assistance from the State gov.I think the cottage will have to be demolished as well due to the structural damage.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

POST 3.This post is a record of the pastures as they stand and it will serve as baseline for the recovery of the farm.In 1 or 2 of the pic's you will note a slight "green tinge",this is a result of 3 mm of rain we got about a week ago.Last night we received 8.5 mm and expect more today.I estimate it will take about 3 weeks for the grasses to respond to a degree where they can be grazed.In my experience the first "flush" is mainly water anyway and making sure the flock have adequate supplies of our mineral mix will ensure the the flock is in "peak health" to cycle and next month to lamb is essential in my view...,,In the last pic, it shows that none of the 8.5 mm last night "ran off" and there is no topsoil or nutrient load displacement,this is reflected over the whole of the farm in the areas of our steepest slopes. 

Well folks, you are all up the date with us ,the flock and the farm.We are now waiting for the next expected rain due today.In coming weeks i will update the state of the pastures as recovery takes place.....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Glad the home farm is OK, really sad for the other farm. I hope the rain keeps coming.


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## thistlebloom

Hoping for a very robust recovery for you and I'm so happy to hear most of your land was spared.


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## Baymule

Thank God that your home farm and sheep were spared. How many acres do you have at your home farm? How far from your home is the Tomboyne farm? You will have to rebuild the fences, that is going to be costly. Are there any programs to help with that? Since the fires swept across the farm two or three times, will you have to reseed the pastures or do you think they will sprout back out? 

Your daughter still knows her stuff. That had to make you feel good that she came out to help. I am so happy that you got rain and the grass is coming out.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bay, the home farm is 300 acs. The round trip to the Tomboyne farm is about 60 kms and if we have stock out there we need to visit about 4 times a week for supervision.It remains to be seen just how much damage there is to the fences,we have in fact 5 neighbors and only a few of them run stock.There is a program for fencing repair and replacement but we will be a "low" priority i would imagine.Our first priority is the "clean up" under the State gov program.We still have 6 weeks of fire season for the main farm and the risk is still very real.

Today we have had almost another 20 mm of rain ,one burst of 10 minutes dumped 8 mm. we drove around and had a look but we did not incur any damage as far as we can tell.this fall was the equivalent of 50 mm per hour (or 2 inches)and a couple of the dams now have "puddles"in them,not enough to be of any value but at least something...

.Our pastures are based on what naturally occurs and to protect whats left and the diversity of the plant population all of the flock are in a paddock of about 40 acs(it is termed a "sacrifice paddock")When this is all over it will need a rest of over 5 months i suspect to recover. We are delivering both water and feed to keep them going forward.The rested paddocks on the home farm will respond quite quickly as the pic's show in the result of just 3 mm on one of the paddocks.The earth is very warm and our Native grasses will leap away with the moisture i am sure,i will document the results with photos as the changes occur.

Funny thing about Nicole ,i'm pretty sure all of her "city" friends are going to get copies of the photos of her time on the farm "helping out the old folks",which we appreciate no end and were so glad she was available to assist.....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Maybe the pictures will incentivise her friends to seek out places that have had fire damage and don't have a daughter to come home to help


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## Baymule

We had a terrible drought here in 2011 and 2012 that killed big mature trees. There was no grass, nor hay, hay had to be trucked in and was high. It seemed like all of Texas was on fire. When we bought our place here in 2014 (we moved in February 2015) there were still standing dead trees from that drought. Many of them we took down, some were so large, rotten and dangerous, that we hired men to take them down. Grass comes back in a season, but the loss of 50-100 year old trees hurt. 

Australia has lost forest lands, trees that can be replanted, but will take a lifetime to recover. I hope the replanting can start soon.


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## Bruce

Not to mention the BILLION dead animals in Australia


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi , on a lighter note,someone has calculated the amount of Carbon which has been "released" into the atmosphere from the fires it's 400,000,000 tons that's a bit too much for our sheep to compete with their "farting"....T.O.R..


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## Baymule

That's funny! We have our gooberment idiots who want to ban everything too.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,the period since my last post has been a very busy one, one way and another.For about a month now we have be 100% both feeding and watering the whole flock,At one stage we  were going to the village to pick up 1000 lts every day to keep the flock watered, two weeks ago came an offer from a neighbor for 13000 lts we could use for the stock from a couple of extra tanks he had on two sheds,so now we can just drive down the lane for a 1 km or so and pick up 700 lts any time we like but as with everything it all takes time and to feed the stock hay, check and fill the waters and pick up a load from Peters and half a day has gone and if the temp is above 35 c and it was for days on end you just had to stop and wait until the late afternoon until the temp was down to about 30 c or so before you did the last check on the water ,feed the dogs and head inside for a "well earned" drink of beer or even something stronger.

Tomorrow they have "promised" that we will get a decent fall of rain and it could even last a week.Last Friday the BOM said 90% chance of rain Sunday ,by Saturday it was 80% ,on Sunday we got" SFA".When it comes to the BOM they have reached the limits of my patience and now when i hear it on the roof i believe it .

We are still yet to hear about the govt sponsored "clean-up",and i am "wading " through the mountain of paperwork required to get some assistance with the feed bill after the fire went through the little farm.

Those of you on F.B. will have seen an update on the recovery of the locked up paddocks after the 30 ml of rain about 3 weeks ago,i will post for those who do not for whatever reason have F.B.The rain if it comes will have an immediate impact as the Native grass crowns have all started to shoot and rebuild their strength ready for the next issue of moisture.

Anyway that's about it for now and so until we "chat" again its "over and out" from..T.O.R.


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## Bruce

I've not been hearing about the fires in Australia lately. Are they subsiding?


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## Baymule

The media moves on pretty quick after the fire goes out. Burned out farms and homes can only hold a short attention span for minutes once the crisis is over. The real crisis is trying to put it all back together after being destroyed, but that is not sensational enough. 

TOR I sincerely hope that you get rain-a gentle rain that can soak in, instead of running off and taking burned topsoil with it.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, many of the fires are now under control due to the rain ,but unfortunately the rain has not reached all the effected areas as yet.There is a large fire to the south of us yet to be controlled and the fire season is not yet over.

I have selected just one of the recovery sites to show how things are going.The slippage in outlook between 2 and 3 was because of a couple of almost 40 c days in between....After this current rain burst is over i will take an update...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

The grass is coming back, I know it is most welcomed. Your soil is light colored, is it sand?


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## Bruce

At least the grass is coming back  I guess the heat from the fires blows off so fast it doesn't kill the seeds/roots in the ground.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thanks guys,all of our "bottom country" is decomposed Granite and acid as "hell".Because we work with the available Native species the response is predicable as long as you dont "murder" the first lot of growth.We awoke this morning to a good fall of rain overnight,although it is coming with quiet strong winds.We moved the sheep yesterday because although they can handle some wet but not the wind as well because of the "dry" they are not in peak condition so shelter is a high priority.....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,over the last few weeks things have moved along,although the flock is still confined to two of the three paddocks they are doing OK.In the last week after their morning hay feed we turn them into the house paddock for a few hours so they can adjust to the green feed they will eventually go onto.

The change in the rest of the farm (apart from the burnt part) is going really well.The next sequence of recovery photos are due to be taken this coming week and i will post for your comment in due course.

In the meantime here a re a few photos for you to comment on.The first 2 show the recovery of our Native Microleenea. The other s are of the sheep grazing around the house.Hope you enjoy....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Looks like that grass is growing quite well!


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## thistlebloom

Beautiful pictures of your sheep on green grass!


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## Baymule

Microleena? That sure is a pretty grass. I looked it up, it sounds like a wonderful pasture grass.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,Yes Bay,Micro is a great grass,drought tolerant it responds to a fall of rain no matter what time of the year.Terrific for sheep /goats,probably not enough bulk or volume for cattle though bearing in mind that it evolved feeding roos and wombats.Managed thoughtfully it only needs "sheep poo" and ours seems to thrive in the woodland areas.

I will try to post the next photo series later today.Expecting more rain this week and we have to go into town this morning after feeding the sheep for another big bale of hay.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

We have been getting a pasture ready to plant grass seed. It's the one we had the forestry mulcher clear for us. Just a couple more weeks until planting. It will be a mix of Bahia and Bermuda. When that takes hold, I will add more grasses and forbs. It is work to get good grass established. Your pictures cheer me up, the before and after!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

So here are the latest photos of the recovery in our pastures after the rains came.If you return to the first photos of the sacrifice paddocks the first photo is of one after it was "rested" for 7 days.I am hoping that the other one responds in a similar manner....Just had a look at the "grazing budget" for the main one (still grazing and feeding out hay in it) and it has had twice its whole years budget of "sheep grazing days".......The recovery of this paddock will be the biggest test of our management system.We will keep you all in the "loop" with photos as we start the recovery period.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

That green is outstanding. May it continue to grow! You sure had a bad year, drought and fires, enough to knock anybody in the dirt. What a recovery from scorching drought. How is the farm that burned several times? I’m sure the fences are down, good grief, that will be a chore.


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## Bruce

Nice looking green you have there!
Do the sheep eat the "tufted" grasses?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi, no Bay ,we have not had the time to get out their again as yet,because the bridge on the direct route has collapsed and it will be another month before they finish the new one.

Hi Bruce,the tufted one is Poa Tussock.After rain it does shoot away ,with the old flock they used to eat the flower and seed heads.The new flock will eat the old as well as the new growth. The nature of the growth is such that it will shade out competition and so we find that if we burn it (in sections) the plant responds with a new flush of growth and seeding and it allows a more diverse group of plants to flourish around them.In its mature form it is very handy when lambing as it provides cover from the cold,wind and heat and cover from roaming foxes,all round a pretty useful plant...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

And cover FOR the roaming foxes!
I'm sure you are quite glad the fox hunters in the 1800's decided they needed local sport


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## Baymule

Collapsed the bridge? Back in a month, that's not too bad. When we moved here 5 years ago, it was record breaking rains. A dam broke and washed out a road, it took months to fix it. On another road, the rain washed out half of the road, it was down to 1 lane with steep drop offs, that one took a year before they got it fixed.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, i think the reason for the "rush" is that there are only 2 roads to the coast from the nations capital and the other one is prone to being cut for all sorts of reason.

We are so lucky(not) when it comes to the introduction of foreign animals,we have Buffalo,horses, camels, goats ,donkeys, deer,rabbits to mention only some. All of them arrived with the best of intentions ,but in the end were just "turned loose" into the wild.

At the moment i am considering a new topic regarding the education of a young bitch Kelpie X we bred.I am sure it will be of interest but it will be as with everything a time thing ,but i will endevour to talk about my methods of training a herding dog for the benifiet of others....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

At least some of those animals could be slaughtered for the meat. I dunno how people would feel about eating camels and horses though. The do-gooders here in the USA had the horse slaughter houses closed down, now the horses are shipped long distances to Mexico or Canada. They didn't stop a durn thing, just made it worse for the horses. Rant over.

All those non native animals must wreak havoc on the native animals habitat. Is there any kind of controls, hunting or anything like that?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, we all need a "smile" now and then? Because the BOM never seem to get it right,i thought i would offer up the following..

WEATHER FORECAST for the period 8 Mar/30 April for our local district (or there about's).

In preparing this forecast I had to travel deep into the forest until I came to the “Cave of Wisdom”, in which I set a small fire to boil a billy of fresh rainwater to make the “magic tea”. While sipping the tea I consulted a small notebook of recent observations by the light of a “flickering candle” and proceeded to read the leaves.

It seems unlikely that a return to very hot weather is unlikely and daytime temps will be around the mid 20’s and nighttime temps in the 7 c/9 c region. These are ideal for the growth of the Clovers in your pastures along with infrequent light falls of rain. I do not expect a “frost’ before Anzac day, but be warned this winter will be a “cold” one, so get to work with the chain saw and fill the woodshed.

The recent rain has given the Bracken Fern a kick along and we will be “burning all the current growth” off as soon as practicable, so the resulting new growth can be “burnt off’ by the frosts. Those of you who practice the style of farming which maximizes the penetration of rainfall at point of impact and allow gravity to slowly move the moisture down slope should have good soil moisture for the return of spring weather.
So there you have it folks, it stands as good a chance as anything the BOM can put forward ,based on their “appalling “ efforts so far this year.
Look forward to reading your comment “for or against “in the coming days…Frank.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi everybody,so yesterday Jenny and I went out to the other farm to have a look at the fencing and flood damage.

Here are a couple of photos to illustrate the level of damage. As you can see the first 6 show the extent of the fire damage,the fact that it is "green"is the recovery of the pasture after the flood...The last 4 show some of the flood damage..We are hoping to get some help with the flood repair from Water NSW,because our creek drains into the Sydney water supply...We have already made the decision to not stock that 80 acs for about 14 months to help with the repair of the in-flow and exit overflows from the dams .All of which are on one drainage line which has 4 dams in total.

The boundary fencing is 5500 mts (5 and a half kms) and then there is the sheep-yards and loading facility's and internal fencing too......Total cost in the area of A$80 K....Insurance was not an option for us because of the annual premiums,it will be up to us and our neighbors to undertake the repairs.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Wow, that is a lot to deal with. At least the pasture is green. The trees are burnt, the fence is burnt and the washouts from the floods don't help either.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day bay, the trouble with that "green" is it is 80% water and almost no nutritional value.Some farmers down here are actually "losing" breeders to a flush of weeds that are high in Nitrates because they are turning out "empty" sheep who will gorge themselves on anything green after so long on in some cases "dry feed " and low quality hay...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Geez, you can't get a break down there for anything!


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## Baymule

Too much green after dry lotted and on hay, is  a sure recipe for bloat. After everything else, this is tough.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,i would like to depart from the current "doom and gloom" for just a minute and relate two recent instances which may cause some to think.

We were parked in a supermarket car park recently when i observes a lady execute an "perfect" reverse park.later as we shopped we passed the same lady of mature years and i said to her ,"bravo, to you, that was the best piece of parking i have seen for years". She gave me a "surprised" look and smiled and said "thank you"and we both continued shopping.I have no doubt that when she returned home all of her family and some friends would have been told about the incident while shopping.

The other occurred on another shopping trip a few weeks later,we were walking in a shopping mall,when i noticed a lady of mature years approaching us .She was wearing a tailored bone colored slacks,a crisp white blouse ,a pretty face with short cropped blonde hair and a "tidy" figure and a shoe heel which gives a slight "swing of the hips".She was aware that i was "checking " her out .As we got to a few paces of one another she glanced across at me with the hint of a smile ,i smiled back and we passed each other without a word.

Now i am sure that a younger female would have taken "exception" to my actions,but it seems to me that when a female reaches that period of late 40's early 50's she appreciates someone acknowledging the efforts she has made...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks ,first lamb for 2020.3 days old W.H.Dorper mum ,no idea of Dad.


Today we completed a "new" structure on the creek.We got the stone for free from a local garden.It is designed to "turn" the flow at right angles (from the near side to the far) and reduce the speed of the water by 50%.We just have to wait now for a "rain" to see how well it works.The old frame was to set the wall in place and to not allow it to move in a heavy rain event...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Congrats on lamb #1 for the season! I hope your diverter works well.


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## Baymule

That's a nice looking lamb, congrats on the first one for the year. What a score on the rock! I see you put it to good use.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,so on top of everything else we had a dog attack on the flock last sat night.We think it was just one dog .It "terrorized a group of breeder ewes and one went into shock and collapsed and died,we found the rest the next day "hiding" in deep bush in their paddock so we moved them up closer to the house to recover.The dog then moved on to a the lamb group ,killed two and mauled one other (which i do not expect to survive).

I have laid a line of "tasty treats" laced with 1080 if it returns.

The cost of the fires and flash flood continue to mount and now exceeds $120 K and now with the VIRUS we do not expect to have that block back in production for up to 3 years."Oh well ,the joys of a farmers life"....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

That is a shame about the dog. I have often wondered about your predators or seemingly lack of. I am sorry for the sheep that you lost. People dump dogs out here all the time. Sometimes we can get the county to pick them up, they adopt them out free of charge. Sometimes coyotes eat them and sometimes they get shot. People who dump dogs ought to be horse whipped. 

We are covered up with coyotes, they come right up to the fence. Were it not for our dogs, they would kill our sheep. In November and December, there was a cougar in the area, it killed 5 goats less than a mile from us. She only used donkeys as pasture guards. I'm sure the donkeys were only concerned with outrunning the goats. The cougar was heard screaming on both sides of our 8 acres, but did not come in, the dogs convinced it to find an easier meal. We have 2 Great Pyrenees, 1 Anatolian/Great Pyrenees cross and 1 big black Labrador/Great Dane cross. The Lab cross is making a fine farm dog and copies what the LGD's do. On Christmas Eve, he held off a bobcat in the yard that was probably after new lambs.


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## Bruce

Very sad for your losses! No guardian dogs? I would think that almost mandatory given the number of sheep and acreage you have.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, here is a photo of one of our rams.He was purchased at about 18 months old at our auction barn for his meat value ,$120.00.Both he and a stud Wiltipol have served a group of ewes this season...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Very nice looking ram! You got him for a great price!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,here is a couple of photos of our first lamb of the season.A ewe now about 6 weeks old,We have had 3 other singles,but you have to remember that they joined at the height of the "big dry".All the mothers have a heap of milk and if they all grow like this one i will be "extremely" happy.


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## Bruce

That is a big and healthy looking lamb!!


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## Baymule

What a nice lamb! I hope the rest of them are that nice too!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,first Speckle ,looks like a ewe ,2 days old....T.O.R


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## Baymule

What a pretty lamb, she looks well built.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,"great news".We had our first Aswssi x Persian born today.Its a "girl". She will look like an Aswssi with a short Persian coat by the look of it. Mom has a very nice udder and the babe is drinking easily by what i observed this afternoon....Anyway here are the photos,i am sure we will get better ones in the future...T.O.R.


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## mystang89

That's wonderful news! Congratulations. I'd love to see how that's lamb turned out next year with her wool.


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## Baymule

That is exciting! The ewe does have a huge milky udder, that lamb ought to grow! Very pretty ewe lamb.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

THE END OF AN ERA: I have made the decision to sell all of the Suffolk's we have left. I was contacted by  a lady on the Northern Tablelands last night about a line of ewe lambs i had advertised ,but were sold and as we "chatted" she said they run mainly Suffolk's and i told her we had a line of ewes in lamb and some ewe lambs for sale.She said "how much" and she would speak to her husband .10 minutes later she said they would take the "lot",sight unseen.This evening i sent her some photos taken this afternoon (attached).

The response to the add was overwhelming with over 450 hits,and they sold in under 30 minutes.

It has been so hectic in the last week or so ,we have sold 58 lambs and now another 18 to go along with another line i hope to select of 10 ewe lambs.We will carry over about 40/50 ewe lambs for breeders and join then in the spring to a Black-headed Persian ram which will not tax them too much.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Wow, that really is the end of an era. While you are no doubt happy to see them go to a good home, there has to be a twist in your heart. You spent a lifetime selectively breeding the best of the best. I hope the couple that is buying them knows what they are truly buying. Years and years of selection, they are fortunate to purchase such a flock. 

I admire your spirit and tenacity. When the shearing got to be too much for you and your lovely bride, you didn't hang it up and quit. No, you just changed directions and set off on a new course of breeding a new composite breed of sheep, suited for your climate. Not too many people would do this at any age, I hope you are still out there in your 90's, doing what makes you happy. You may very well gift your country with an enduring breed, able to survive and thrive on available forage, raising good meaty lambs with no tail docking or shearing.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,here are a couple of new photos.The "new star" and the "elephant in the making".Hope you all enjoy..
T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

I forgot to mention,I have a "new" contact in the USA,who breeds pure bred Aswssi's and i know one of you is really keen on them.More details later.T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi, another couple of photos,the two tall ones are rams we are selling the target market is people who live on small blocks,we have also offered packages of 3 ewes and a ram for those just starting out along with a delivery service.

The other two are new lambs one from a Damara x and the other from a W.H. Dorper...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Those are some very nice lambs. I like your marketing strategy, starter herds!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, new additions born overnight...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Things are hopping at your place TOR!


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## Beekissed

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day folks, new additions born overnight...T.O.R.


I love the color and conformation on your sheep and lambs, TOR!


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## Baymule

I sure am liking these spotty lambs!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, the lamb is an updated photo,Persian over B.H.Dorper,the P's sure have strong genes with "speckling" on the first x.

Next is the first part of the next stage of the yard up-grade. The front piece is a handler for drenching and if needed foot trimming,it also has digital scales for weighting and it will be connected to the shed entrance on the left hand side.I think the scales (which i picked up ages ago at a farm clearance sale) will be handy to work out what the "carcass" was in $'s per kg ,To date all of our lambs have made in excess of $10.00 per kg,"swing weight"...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

The right equipment sure can make a difference on working the sheep. So much easier! I like the Persian influence on your lambs.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, here are the latest,there are a few more but yet to get a photo....T.O.R


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## Baymule

You are getting some mighty fine looking lambs. This is fun!


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## Bruce

Nice lambing season so far!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Here is a couple of new photos,the lambs are about a week old now i think

This group is the maidens from last year ,one has already lambed and a couple more look "well in".....T.O.R


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## Baymule

How many different breeds do you have now? I think you are going to come up with a composite breed that is very well suited to your climate and location.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bay, we have 8 female breeds and 5 male breeds .Keeping track as we go along is going to be some challenge i think...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Haha, that is a lot of breeds to keep up with.


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## Bruce

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Hi Bay, we have 8 female breeds and 5 male breeds .Keeping track as we go along is going to be some challenge i think...T.O.R.


I bet you have a really detailed breeding chart!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Oh Bruce,i wish! Because of the big dry last year i have "no" idea who mated who. At the minute between lambing and sales of lambs, i am not sure even which way is "up"...T.O.R


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## Bruce

Well that sure will make it hard to use this year's lambs for breeding!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Lucky for us they are all out of our baseline ewes,so it wont matter a great deal in the long run.

Just added up our sheep sales for the month so far 80 head. "Damn" good result!..The photos show a line going on Thursday....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,thought the following may be of interest,it has had 365 hits and all the stock i have to sell is "sold".

BRED ON GRASS TO BREED ON GRASS: Is your farm a small one ? (2 acs or more?) Would you like to have a few sheep to keep the grass down? These ram and ewes will" not "grow to 80 kg monsters and need shearing or tail docking.We have a small number of working age rams with ewes (unrelated)to suit if that is what you need.Our farm has not seen Super or Nitrigon for over 20 years.Our ewes "lamb" in the paddock and rear their lambs there.NO handfeeding (apart from hay in the last drought).Packages are for one ram and three ewe lambs of your choice from a group @$800.00....We can deliver up to 200kms at $1.00 per km (one way).All sheep are NLIS tagged and vendor dec will come with them,they will be drenched with Cydecten before leaving our farm...You will be required to supply destination details before we leave farm to comply with Safemeat regulations...Photo shows Rams ,ewe photos will be added when i take themTwo of the rams are in the centre of the photo.In the first instance contact via e-mail or phone ******1670 + click to reveal  ..after dark.....As you can see i have now added examples of the ewe lambs for the packaged 

T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Brilliant marketing strategy. I'm sure there are, as there are here, many people with a few acres who wish to raise their own meat. Indeed, I am one of those with a few acres, at 8 acres it's not like I can keep a flock of a thousand sheep. You are giving those people something they desire to have, to fit both their small farm and their budget. Awesome.


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## Bruce

That is fabulous TOR!!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day , here is a new post i just put up on FB.

How much grass do you need?

In recent times livestock farmers are beginning to understand that success with animals relies on farming their grass asset sustainably and economically.

So here is a little test:


Would producing more animals or reducing your overheads increase your net profit?
Would you make more profit if, you sold 100 average lambs/calves or 50 really excellent ones?
Which path would increase your profit, make the landscape fit the animals or make the animals fit the landscape?


In the first case I believe that the latter will give you the best result, because the former will require more capital, more work and more inputs .But I hear some of you cry what if I invest in better genetics? Better genetics can assist insome circumstances, but high performance comes at a cost and by that I don’t mean just the cost of the animal’s .High performance means better pastures, weed control, fertilizer, and regular moisture and better pasture species.This forms a circle of links each one dependent on the previous to form a loop and once entered is hard to escape.


In the second case it really depends on your target market. For most small farmers “finishing “stock can be a challenge without expensive inputs.
In our case we produce forward store lambs on grass and when they enter a finishing program will in most cases “outperform “ others because the response to the high protein finishing ration will be greater. Just out of interest, our cost to produce is around $5.50 per kg carcass weight, based on 100 % turnoff from the breeding flock and this season we have av over $10.00 per kg….
The option is something some of you may wish to explore, however I have on occasions heard the comment” if I knew how much they cost to produce I probably wouldn’t, lots of sheep production is more a lifestyle choice rather than a business “, but every farm should be treated as a business.


In the third case, we have chosen (B) for the last 12 years and it has proved to be the most rewarding (IMO) emotionally and financially. In recent times in Australia there has been a shift from wool cutter wethers in the drier parts to breeding the Hair types in the drier parts and finishing on “better country” to the East or South, but for small producers that is not an option due to the cost of land on the better country .In today’s economy many small farmers (under, say 500 acs) do need off farm income to get by in the” tough times”, which by the way seem to occur on a more regular basis.
 When we made the shift from the British Short wools to the Hair types the thing that “struck” me was that the individual breeds had strengths but the gene pool was not that wide and that our environment was not quite right for success (IMO) and so we have embarked on a program which has 8 female breed and 5 male breeds in an effort to produce a “hardy” Composite which will perform on our farm and most likely
 throughout the district. Finally always have your mind open to any emerging opportunity.....T.O.R


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,get ready for the "ooo's and arrr's ....Note on the "bum" shots ,showing the fat tail development  and the very nice shape already.....The other two are the Damara /Persian x's,they should all lamb in the next 3 weeks i think.
...........T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, 2 new "speckles today",normally we get Black with white spots but one is white with black spots.The other was only just born and not sure about it...Might get some pictures tomorrow...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, wrote this for down here ,thought you may agree with the sediments?

New fees for Agriculture Degrees…
Today the gov announced changes to the fee structures for courses and it included a 60% reduction for Agriculture .To be clear I do not have an ag degree nor do I desire one .In my mind you learn farming by doing, it is a difficult thing to “teach” that is unless you get a lot of theory poured through a “funnel” into your brain. The result is a whole lot of stuff developed by commercial interests and Supply Company’s whose main objective is to transfer money from your wallet into their profits.
Is it possible that the 60% reduction in fees is a 60% change to the subject matter? It seems to me that industry and the likes of Meat and Livestock Australia’s main motivation to for farmers to take from the environment everything that can be had to the extent that the risk to the environment is high and when the farmer follows and it all down the toilet, they just say “it’s a risk of farming and nothing to do with their advice or products”.
In today’s uncertain climate and unreliable weather outlooks for the BOM it would seem reasonable to me (as a very old farmer) that teaching a conservative approach and make how outcomes affect the landscape and environment would be of the highest priority. But everything you see or read is focused on how much you can take with no regard as the damage that could result..
An Ag degree can be a “jumping off” point into many other areas of science, but if you want to actually “farm” animals my advice is to get yourself a patient mentor, because he /she will need lots of patience to “moderate” the enthusiasm of the new young farmer until he/she understands how Nature works .


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## THE OTHER OLD RAM

G'day folks,so after what seems like hours i now have another a/c which i can use from a laptop (my daughter gave me) which is set up in the kitchen next to the fire...i look forward to posting from this "nice warm spot"..T.O.O.R  (The other old ram.lol).


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks , today i tried to post from our nice and warm dinning room next to the fire from the laptop with a new name T.O.O.R. ,but it did not happen .so if you see a post from T.O.O.R. its only me (LOL)


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## Baymule

Your fit the livestock to the land is so true. You can improve the land, working WITH nature instead of against her, like you have done. There is no quick fix, it takes time and work. I am always inspired by your before and after pictures.


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## THE OTHER OLD RAM

G'day folks,its only me,trying to post from the nice warm kitchen....Can someone tell me how i can give me a new icon photo?.....T.O.O.R.


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## THE OTHER OLD RAM

So I worked it all out (see what happens when you read the instructions)It's a view across the bottom country on the farm....P.S,it is so much nicer here instead of the office (cold as a "mother in-laws "kiss)..Jenny is busy "baking" Muffins for "smoko"..T.O.O.R.


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## Bruce

TOOR
Perhaps we can get some details and background?


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## Finnie

I thought T.O.O.R was going to be The Old Ornery Ram!


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## Finnie

(You know I’m just kidding. TOR is not the ornery type)


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## Ridgetop

Is your market more for fat tail sheep?  Those are the variety that the middle eastern ethnicities want here but they usually want them very young - about 40 lbs.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,on the subject of "Fat Tail Sheep",we are on a steep learning curve,the dairy types like the Aswssi and Asssaf seem to be typical of dairy animals ,,they are hard to put weight on once they come off the milk,without i suspect waiting a long time or.. really expensive high protein feeds...Because we do not have a need for the milk for cheese or the like we will sell them straight off of the mothers....I feel that by using our selected Meat breeds (Van Rooy,Wiltipol,Australasian White and W.H.Dorper) we may be able to produce a suitable animal which will weight at a heavier end...T.O.R.


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## Ridgetop

I never wean my lambs.  I just load them up and sell them straight off their mothers.  It gets a bit noisy here for a day, but not weaning away from mama keeps the weight gain steady.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,so much to comment on! P.O.W, for one of our lambs,wow.

A funny thing happened when i logged on this morning."Can you supply 40 male lambs over 12 months old?"As they were on line i had a chat with them,after a number of back and forth messages it turns they are in Alex town P.A. I assume nobody has lambs left but these people could be a worthwhile contact going forward?If your farm is "handy" I can send you their e-mail address by PM if you wish?

On the program front i am in the process of trying to obtain a PB Aswssi ram from Robbie and another 2 PB Van Rooy's about 12 months old to match to a line of maidens ,mainly W.H.Dorper and Wiltipols...In spite of the "dry conditions" and variable feed quality by way of grass the ewes are "as fat as seals" and the lambs are going forward nicely.

Recently on GUMTREE (similar to Craig's List over there ,I think) I requested EOI's in a line of hybrid ram lambs i will be offering next Feb at a attractive price to evaluate their performance on other farms and management styles.Last weekend Jenny and I caught up with a couple of our wethers now about 18 months old,OMG, talk about a "mountain of meat",they look terrific (we will be seeing them again shortly and i will get a photo and post for you to see).

An update on Jenny: since my last comments her condition continues to decline at what it seems is a faster and faster rate ,both psychically and mentally. Separation  Anxiety is extreme,only short amounts of walking,total loss of short term memory ,but still "pushes back" against any micro managing and tends towards a "meltdown" when she is frustrated at her inability to perform a given task....Oh well, life goes on ,i'm off to crutch a line of lambs for delivery on Sat .they are for EID and this is a new customer with potential going forward.I set a price for them which ensures he has a "good margin"when he resells so we will see how it goes......T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I am glad that your sheep are doing so well, despite the dry conditions. You truly are breeding sheep to fit your land and weather patterns. 

I am so sorry that Jenny is declining at such a fast rate. My heart and prayers go out to both of you.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi again,first photo's of Brown Speckle and new Aswssi lamb.The Damara's have also started ,I was beginning to worry (just a little) that those long ,curly tails may have made "joining" difficult for the boys ,but it seems where there is a will, they will find a way...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you Bay,I appreciate your words...I can see that I am "losing her" week by week and so I make the most of the time we have together as I am aware that time is short and her care is now the number 1 priority in my life...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

I'm so sorry about Jenny  
Nasty disease, with no "light at the end of the tunnel".


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, new overnight, "Speckle" out of Aswssi mum...Also new photo of the brown headed in the last post.Its now 12 days old,looks great from any angle I think...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Looks good!


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## Baymule

Very nice lambs!


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## Ridgetop

So sorry to hear about Jenny.  It is a terrible disease.  My mother in law had it and she would become very upset if  Daddy ever was out of sight.  She would get up in the middle of the night, turn on all the lights, and start dressing herself.  They had moved to an assisted living facility by then because of her condition but one day she managed to get out of the premises and got lost.  Terrifying for all of us.  Another time DS1 stayed with her while Daddy, DH, and I did some business.  It was just for 20 minutes, but DS1 was very upset when Mom kept asking why we had left her with that strange man.  DS1 was the first grandson, and always her favorite.  She didn't know who he was anymore. When we would visit she would say I used to have a son with that name but would not believe that it was DH.  I've only seen him cry a couple times in 50 years together, but those times were some.  

This disease is hardest on the family because the person who has it soon forgets everything.  We are left to watch the terrible deterioration of someone we love very much and try to cope.  I truly grieve for you as you continue to love and lose your darling Jenny.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G;day folks,I am looking for feedback from those of you who have had experience with Jenny's condition.It seems to me that no matter how educated your children are they cannot understand the pressures placed on the partner of the sufferer. Recently I had a "real " down day and when i expressed my feelings on line the response was "you should not put that sort of thing on-line ,so I deleted it...Recently we became acquainted with a couple who purchased 4 ewe lambs and a ram and then paid us to look after  them until they purchased their farm.This couple is "greener than grass" when it comes to livestock,yet my daughter treats our relationship as thought we have "befriended axe murders". A conversation's with them leaves me on a "high" as I can remember when Jenny and I were just starting out and we were just like them....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Wish I could help TOR 
I suppose she could be in denial, just doesn't want to believe it is happening. She should spend a couple of weeks with you 24x7. It would be painful for her I'm sure.


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## Ridgetop

Dear T.O.R.
When it comes to posting about your experiences with Jenny, please feel free to post. Why wouldn’t you share those things on line with your friends?  I am truly shocked that someone had the gall to tell you not to post your feelings about Jenny.

Don’t be afraid that we won’t want to hear about your problems. All of us have someone that has gone through this experience and we grieve for you as you follow this hard path with your lifelong companion. No one judges here when you post about her deterioration. Sharing your worries and depressing experiences with us and knowing that we are here at your back sending you our love and prayers can sometimes help you to have the courage to go on.

Are there any support groups in your area? Some hospitals have support groups for caregivers. Also, if you can find someone to come and stay with Jenny for a couple of hours while you get some much needed rest, that would be a God send for you. There are groups that have people that volunteer to stay with Alzheimer and cancer patients to give the caregivers a break. Instead of criticizing you, maybe your daughter could take her mother out for a few hours, just for ice cream and a drive. My uncle had a partner that eventually had to be put in a rest home. When Uncle George was out of the country (he lived in Mexico several months of the year) we would go with our small children every Sunday after church and pick up Uncle Burton from the rest home. We would all get ice cream then go for a drive either by the beach or in the mountains. 3-4 hours was all it took and while poor Uncle Burton wasn’t always sure who we were, he enjoyed his ice cream and his sightseeing drive.

My mother-in law had Alzheimers and it was truly heartbreaking to watch that good and loving woman who had adored her children and grandchildren deteriorate to where she no longer recognized us. She was such a wonderful woman, not a “traditional” mother-in-law who found fault with her daughter-in-law at all. She loved me dearly and I loved her. We lost her twice, once when she no longer recognized us, and again the day we buried her. This disease is heartlessly cruel on both the person who has it and on the family. Only you, the daily caregiver, know how terrible it is. Only you, the daily caregiver, know how exhausting and depressing it is. Your daughter only sees her mother occasionally and has no idea how hard it is for you day in and day out.

We visited Marv’s cousin in Atchison, KS, and learned that her husband has Alzheimers. He did not know us anymore, and often did not know his children. None of their 5 children or many grandchidren lived in town and were all in _complete denial_ as to how bad their father was. Judy couldn’t sell the house and move closer to her sister in Topeka because of financial reasons. She couldn’t rent out the house and move into an apartment because she was afraid he would wander away from unfamiliar surroundings. The children hated coming to see them because they had to face their dad’s condition. When they did come he smiled and greeted them happily which they took to mean he recognized them! The town no longer had a support system for caregivers that would give Judy any respite. Without her children she was completely on her own to care for him. His behavior was becoming erratic and she was unable to get her children to understand what was happening.

*As far as your new sheep friends - Just ignore your daughter!!!  *They are not axe murderers, just nice people with whom you have something in common.  We have lost all our old livestock friends.  No one left here who keeps livestock.  It can feel lonely.  That is why I treasure my BYH friends.

Children don’t think their parents have any life at all that doesn’t revolve around them. Take it from me, the mother of 5 children! They are always surprised that we have some activity to attend, something to do that we enjoy or that we even have friends with which to communicate! I love them and know they love us, but they really can get under your skin trying to tell you what to do. Sometimes I think they sort of believe we live in a vacuum where we do nothing until they want to visit. Sort of like throwing their toys in the toy box until they want to play. LOL  And if they want to do something with us and we are busy, you would think the end of the world had come!  Who with, where, why, what?  Good grief!  According to our children we only have lives when they are around to allow it!  DH and I have a pact - we are never living with any of our children.  We just tell them we are to torture them.

You go ahead and enjoy these new friends. Not only are you having fun with them, they need your expertise as they start out on their sheep adventure. Have fun with them. Ignore your children’s surprise that you are actually still living and useful. Now that our children are no longer in 4-H they don’t understand that we enjoy raising these sheep and plan to keep doing it.

Our children believe us to be in our dotage! They want us to sell our sheep, our house, our travel trailer, and move into an apartment or condo. They believe that we are too old to enjoy ourselves in any way! I suppose they just think we sit alone in our home waiting for them to favor us with a visit. We are only there to babysit at their convenience!!!

Belonging to BYH has given *me *an entirely new lease on life. I have lots of experiences that my children don’t want to hear about, knowledge that they don’t want to learn, and lots of life and fun left to DH and myself. Posting information that I have learned in my 70 years about livestock, gardening, etc. helps others and I am happy that it can do that. The worst thing about knowledge is that if you don’t share it, it des with you. To me that is a sin. Sharing knowledge that can help others and that they can pass on in their turn is a wonderful gift. As my Jewish friend says, it’s a “mitzvah” – a good deed.

Writing up and sharing my stories about our animal adventures had been a lot of fun. I am glad that they brighten their reader’s day. 2 months ago, I gave the story about Ham Hocks to my daughter and asked her to read it. She still hasn’t “had time”. She was actually *shocked* to learn that I have friends on BYH and that they enjoy reading my stories. I don’t think she believed it. But then, according to her we have not friends. LOL

Go ahead and post about Jenny. And have fun with your new sheep friends. And keep posting. We are here for you.


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## Bruce

Ridgetop said:


> They want us to sell our sheep, our house, our travel trailer, and move into an apartment or condo.


Trying to get their inheritance early by stuffing you in a "box" and killing you?

Well said.


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## Baymule

What @Ridgetop said  times about a thousand. 

You have friends here, friends you will never meet face to face, but friends of the heart. You can talk about Jenny  all you want, we will listen.


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## Bruce

x2


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you one and all for your thoughts and prayers.

Unfortunately at the present state of her condition trying to get some time away is something she cannot handle, it seems and the very suggestion of someone even our daughter coming to stay results in a "major" meltdown..She is paranoid about being separated and placed in care,and so tries to "hide" from the world her condition.Our daughter does understand about Jenny ,but she is prone to micro-manage situations and us if she is given the chance..Jenny refers to her as "the bossy bitch",Her heart is in the right place and I love her to "bits".but I wish she would just give me a little credit sometimes...As an aside the new sheep people were quite surprised that I have without any help setup 2 F.B sites and a LinkedIn one as well..T.O.R.


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## Bruce

I can't even imagine how someone with dementia or Alzheimer's feels when their memory fades in and out; grasp of past, present and future being fleeting. 

They don't know that you CAN teach old rams new tricks? Cheeky youngins!!


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## Ridgetop

When my daughter tells me that I just don't understand how much work it is to take care of her house and 3 children, I just look at her in shock.  I had  *4* children, 5 dogs, a herd of dairy goats, small flock of breeding sheep, was raising market calves on the goat milk, driving 100 miles round trip 2X a month for feed, renovating our house for 10 years, building a barn, running a semi-commercial rabbitry, keeping a clean house, was a room mother at school, doing the laundry, was a 4-H leader for 10 projects, was on the 4-H County Leader's Council, AND working as a preschool teacher!   Alas, our children think they are the only ones that have ever done stuff.  And we did it without computers which meant trips to the Library for school projects!

Your daughter means well, but her concern leads her to believe that she should take charge of her "old" parents and give you the benefit of her guidance.  Do what I do, smile and say "I'll think about it", and do my own thing.

Sadly this is the beginning of one of the hardest parts of Jenny's illness.  The clinging to you means that you are the last familiar part of her world that she recognizes on a regular basis.  Your absence terrifies her since she no longer recognizes her world.     Eventually when she no longer recognizes  you, you will be able to have a sitter or leave her somewhere with another caregiver, but then even more heartbreak as you realize that you have lost Jenny into her own dark world.  

I am so sorry for you and wish there was something we could do other than just be your sounding boards.  You can always tell us your problems without any fear of judgment.  We are here for you.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,the following is from one of two F.B. pages I manage...

G'day folks,this is the story of 3 FAT LADY'S.....Yesterday we purchased the 3 ewes shown in the photos (Our thanks to Emma and Maria).I thought this tale worth telling as a guide to others in the group as for  some new sheep people it is an easy "trap" to fall into.These 3 girls are beautifully bred,but they were the wrong type of sheep for the farm they went to ( the new owners were un-aware of this fact at the time of purchase)...It is IMO necessary to understand the background of a breed and compare this to what is the reality of "your" farm to avoid situations like this......As most of you are aware I am sure, the majority of the Hair breeds evolved in a quite dry environment with at times "harsh" grazing range lands and so are not that suited to a wet,moist very rich grazing setup...I understand the attraction of these breeds to new and sometimes small holdings because of the easy management and low cost of production...So if you look at these photos and your sheep look like them,"they are way too FAT".Rather than being "kind" to them you are making life not only expensive for you in feed costs but the sheep suffer due to the strain on ankles ,knees and mobility issues.They ,in this condition will be difficult to "join" unless you have a very experienced and persistent ram,lambing with also present problems and when the "exhausted" lamb is born it may not survive.....We have added them to a small group of ewe lambs born on our place to show the new girls around with regard to water, grass and shelter.They are predicting "snow" for us later this week,I have also added an old ram who wont be capable of doing any damage ,but his presence will keep them moving around and this mobility will assist in their weight loss... T.O.R.


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## Ridgetop

OMG!!!  I would say they have a "condition score" of about 50!  LOL  

Getting good bloodlines is a plus for you but you will have to take off a lot of weight before you can take advantage of it by breeding.  On the other hand taking off the weight will be easier than putting condition on animals that are half starved.   Nice addition to your breeding program.

You are so right about people rushing into livestock purchasing without doing their homework on which breed will be best for them or their facilities.  Kind of like people who buy a puppy because it is so cute then find they have a huge dog for their tiny apartment, or a high energy dog for elderly people that cn barely walk around!  

Always do your homework *FIRST*!  LOL


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,thought this photo worth posting.It was taken after we had had 173 mm of rain in 3 days. I collected this sample as the water exits our farm at the creek boundary....Even after all of the rain there was no debris on the boundary fence,so our system of capture at the top of the catchment and as it drains shows just how well our system works....

I am "tempted" to enter this in the POW ,as an example to all the livestock people of just what is achievable with careful management of water as it moves across your land...T.O.R.


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## Ridgetop

I love that your catchment system is working.  As a southern Californian, we know the value of water! 

Will you be able to use water lines to keep some of your pastures green year round?  Or is the capture system mainly to keep enough drinking water on the ranch?  I don't know enough about Australian geography to know which parts have water, but I do know that some of it is just as dry as our desert lands here.  

Being able to capture water for future use when it all arrives in a matter of hours or days is so important in keeping the land fertile.  We had our clothes washer draining gray water onto our lower pasture.  It kept a nice green spot with a tree growing there,  We had a plumbing problem and had a plumber out.  As he was leaving he announced that he had "FIXED" our drain and reconnected the drainage back into our septic system.  
No charge.  

We have to have another plumber come back to disconnect it again so we can connect the water lines out front to irrigate the pasture!


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## Bruce

He was so helpful! Maybe making it code? Is greywater usage legal there? I know it is restricted in some places but that is just stupid as long as the only things connected to it are not toilets. I guess there could be excess phosphorus problems from washing machines.


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## Ridgetop

I think the shower/tub was also draining through the gray water.  During the last drought Los Angeles made gray water legal to use for watering landscaping.  You are not allowed to collect it and store it for later use which is understandable.  We plan to attach it to water lines with holes drilled in them to water the front field.  Hopefully, we can keep some grass growing year round.


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## Baymule

We are still working on water drainage and catchment here. That is a beautiful picture. It represents years of work and planning. I don't know about anyone else, but that picture is inspiring to me!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, sorry I have been a bit slow to reply. But I was laid low by the flu for a number of days. Had a Covid test and today it came back negative.

In reply to those who had questions about the water issue.Down here the amount of surface water you can store is regulated by your acreage and even if you pay for a "bore" to be drilled the water can only be used for household or livestock. If you have a bore every so often they will take a sat photo and if it shows that you are irrigating ,you can expect a visit from authorities.....To overcome this our system is designed to hold the water within the landscape through the creation of the underground weir which "traps" and holds the subsurface flows from escaping from our land.

The quality of the water captured this way is very good because we hold almost all of the surface debris and nutrient load in the landscape where it falls and this contributes to the enhanced growth at the "top of the catchment" which is the most prone to leaching and the management of your "tops" is key to supporting your pastures further down the slope...T.O.R


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## Ridgetop

So this water is contained in an underground tank?


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## THE OTHER OLD RAM

HI Ridgetop, our topography is such the water travels via gravity to the lowest point on our farm where it exits.it is pushed along by the pressure of the water above it.Once we worked out just where it travels we put in a solid barrier below ground level (in this case a sheet of Gal iron).This action caused the water to bank up behind it and severely reduced its ability to proceed and leave our place.On the up-slope side of the weir we created several ponds,which we use as water points for the sheep and to determine the state of the water table...This simple operation has shown to back the water up ,up to 500 yards on the high side as shown by the new green growth which continues to come through during a "dry spell".However it has now come time to replace the original sheep of iron (when time permits).The new weir will be 1.5 mts deep as opposed to the current one of less than 1.0 mt. and will be the full width of the stream bed as opposed to the current one which is less than two thirds....I will post text and photos when this new task is undertaken.The success of ours is because of the soil type we have and our understanding of how it functions.

I will post a  series of photos show the system in action during the last rain event when I am on the other computer...T.O.R (from the winter office)


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi ,I am back in the "cold office", here are the photos.

1. was the discharge from the dam above the creek.
2.The first stone wall ,I left it as an example of why it "does not work".It was packed too tight and when the flow exceeds the height of the wall there is "no" decrease in flow speed.
3. The new stone wall still a little work to do ,but the reduction in flow speed was quite evident.
4.The ponds at the weir ,where the flow is made to change direction twice at 90 deg.
5 the flow at the boundary.Note there is no debris caught on the fence....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

By weir you mean basically a loose pile of rocks so that the water can still filter through, slowly. Right? NOT a rigid, mortared block wall to trap water until it overflows, going to the next solid wall. 

Here I have seen the solid block walls like a series of baffles, making a series of little pools with overflow. 

What is the advantage of a loose built weir over a solid block wall? I immediately see that the loose weir also traps debris, is there more advantages than that?


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## THE OTHER OLD RAM

G'day folks,coming to you once again from the WWO (warm winter office).

Anything solid will be classed as a"dam" as it impedes the natural flow of the stream and is against the regulations. The sheet of iron is actually not that visible from the bank of the stream and what is visible is a "hole" in the stream bed and once the surface flow subsides there is no clue as to what is actually happening.(I will see if I can show the original photo of the weir at the time of installation).

All the other structures are quite porous and are designed to reduce the speed of the flow when those conditions exist.The nature of our soils are that the sub surface flows can continue for over 12 months and the weir merely means that the moisture levels can be maintained up-stream to produce new green growth.

Photos show some of the Persian/Damaras and their lambs.Hope you enjoy....T.O.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Here is how the underground weir was made.The second one shows the weir in a non flowing situation...T.O.R


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## Baymule

Thanks for the pictures. We are working on our pile of sand. LOL  We now have 2 pretty good pastures. Small, but heck, we only have 8 acres. This past spring spring we raised Cornish Cross meat chickens in a movable coop, a chicken tractor. I moved it sideways every day in our small side pasture. After I moved it, I scattered giant bermuda grass seed and watered it into the mass of chicken poop left behind. In those patches there is grass 2 feet tall. Two months ago, we covered it with sheep poop from the barn, bending the grass stems down. Everywhere there is a joint in the grass, roots will grow if covered with earth. I have another batch of 45 Cornish Cross in that pasture now, still in the shade as it is scorching hot and I don't want them steam cooked. LOL I will soon start moving them and will go up that strip again, next to the luxuriant grass already there. 

This picture was taken April 4, 2020. The dark green grass is winter rye, it dies back in hot weather, but makes some nice early spring grazing. The bare patches is the chicken poop pads.





This picture was taken May 23, 2020 and shows the growth of the giant bermuda grass. I grazed the sheep on it several times this summer. It is very hot and dry right now, so I am keeping the sheep off to protect the grass and give it more time to get established. I can grow winter grasses, clovers, but they die back around the end of May to mid June. It's getting grass established to take the summer heat that is challenging. It will get going, then burn up in July and August. If it can make it past the first year, it stands a pretty good chance of surviving. 





Your ewes and lambs are looking awesome. Strong, healthy and fattened on the grass that you have worked to provide for them.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, did something happen? I was locked out of BYH for several days...T.O.R.


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## rachels.haven

Hello,
It got really quiet here for a while so I don't think you were the only one. On my end it appeared there were site authentication issues with BYH, but only for a few hours (as I was informed by my live in programmer husband). I'm not sure if everyone is back yet, but I'm sure they will be. Glad you're back online.
-R


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## Baymule

The servers got updated for better security. So secure, that we, the members couldn't get in the forums! that has been resolved and we are back!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hooray for that ,I was missing my B Y H's daily fix.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

UPDATE on the 3 fat ladies: THE THREE FAT LADIES: Update.....Today the T F L's came in for a feet trim,OMG how their hoof's have hardened up.It took all my strength to remove the excess horn from their time on soft country.But the good news is their "hips' are almost able to be felt with ease and now they can move around without any "discomfit" it won't be long before I will be able to feel the "short ribs"...On the way back to their paddock they even managed to break into a "trot" such was the lack of pressure on their ankles and knees.(sorry I forgot the camera,but in the coming days i will get an updated photo for those of you who are following their journey). T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Now that is GOOD security!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, here are a few photos.First two are the Persians and the others are the 3 Fat lady's.

Exercise is working ,I can now detect their "ribs" ,short ribs and hips. One does look as thought she might be in lamb? Hopefully I can get a little more weight off of her before her time comes.

The others are the Persians/ Damara group all the lambs except 2 are ewes.Hope you all enjoy...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I love your spotty sheep! What eye candy! You have a nice lamb crop too. Is that  a turn table I see for working the sheep? How do you like it?
Fat ladies.   They are rather portly.


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## Finnie

I love your colorful flock too!


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## Bruce

I am more used to seeing that comment posted on BYC


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, today is just the best "spring day",but for the last two days Nicole,Jenny and I have been tagging and marking lambs and due to "old age" is was time for a rest ,so this morning I made a choc cake instead (and a very fine result) for the next couple of days" Smoko".

I know you all love the photos so hare are a few from the last two days.

Bringing in the flock,these are one of three groups we have .Because meg is in season and Max has trouble keeping his mind on the job .The task fell to "old Ruby" and Tina the young pup,anyway the job got done and the lambs look a "treat".. 

In the next post ,ewes and lambs and some interesting lambs.....

Hope you all enjoy ...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

You certainly have been busy! That is a nice bunch of sheep. A chocolate cake sounds like a nice reward for all that hard work!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks ,as promised here are some more tales from the farm.After the rain quite a few of the ewes have cycled and in the improved conditions we are now getting quite a few twins. These are a sample.

The second lot are singles with a few from the Awassi mothers.The black and white ewe lamb taken from the rear would leave Kim Kardashian green with envy I'm sure .The brown and white ewe lamb is an update of a previous photo.In the photo of the two lambs the ram is on the left and the ewe is on the right...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Kim Kardashian butt!    The brown and white ewe lamb is quite a looker. The last two are chunky! They look like blocks on legs.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

CREEK news: the following is an update on our restored erosion gully creek-line.The burst of warm weather has resulted in an explosion of growth in the creek bed.The pools that control the water speed in the lower reaches are full to the "brim" and a slight discharge is evident....To my mind these photos prove the concepts we designed actually work and work really well if one is a little patient . Photo 1. is downstream to the boundary .Photo 2. is the control ponds and Photo 3. is upstream from the ponds show the speed break in the drainage line.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day group, I thought it appropriate to show the results of our earlier "cool burning" . We are really happy with the outcome and it just shows you that you don't have to have been here for 40 k years to get a great outcome ,you just need to be willing to take the time to understand your landscape and how it functions....The crowns of the Poa have sprouted and after the next shower and a bit more warmth they will begin to flower,with the old flock we used to put the rams in on this feed to get then ready for "work", but this year we will introduce a group of ewes and lambs to control the new growth and allow the other grasses to flourish around them.


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## Baymule

What lush green grass! All your hard work is showing!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Sorry Bay i did not answer your question. I am going to start to re-use it and have added weighing bars for electronic scales...The reason I stopped was the Suffolk's were to heavy and used to tip it when I rolled them over,but it is great for "marking, foot trimming and drenching and with the added ability to weigh them it will be great again,when I get organised of course...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

That looks as handy as a pocket on a shirt.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,thought I would post some outcomes of our planning for the next 6 months.At this point of time of our 300 acs we should be able to "lock-up" about 150 until next Jan/Feb ,this will allow all of our warm season grasses to grow ,flower and seed along with the re-establishment of our Clovers (many of which are old vars that can cause fertility problems when grazed green). We have also identified the area for next Falls "cool burn",these decisions were made as we conducted our annual weed spraying program,we "spot spray"only one weed ,but we have to cover most of the 300 acs in a grid pattern (on foot) and this takes place over about 6 weeks before flowering takes place..

As an aside hear are a couple of pic's when "The Old Ram" was a "young one".I found them in an old purse of Jenny's during a clean-up.

Our update. Recently we had our 2 yearly Bone Scan,mine had not changed but Jenny's bone density had decreased by 50% on the last one. In a routine visit it was discovered that she had an irregular pulse and so a ECG was conducted and she has developed a heart issue.Her condition has continued to progress requiring 2 separate medications twice a day.She has relinquished all her old duty's now and only "bakes" on a few occasions. Farm work is limited to about 2 hours per day,which is taking a deal of planning on my part.Every aspect of the house is now my responsibility which at first was quite a "shock" (I have new found respect for females who increasingly work outside the home and run a home as well).I guess i am lucky in some respects in that i have the ability to plan and organise work schedules. 

This Spring is turning out to be a "ripper" with the best pasture conditions for about 8 years.It is such a relief after the "big dry",fires ,floods and now the virus.

Well ,that's about it for now,Hope you are getting organised for the coming cold weather.In late news a sale of Aussie White rams resulted in a top price of $53,000.00(not a typo Fifty three thousand dollars).I understand there was a group from the USA who purchased a few to get semen straws for export to the USA...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

No wonder Jenny kept your picture in her purse, you were quite the handsome young man. I am so sorry to hear of her further decline and health issues. Many medications can cause bone loss. A situation of damned if you do and damned if you don't. Prescriptions have so many side effects, it's hard to know what to do. My prayers for you and Jenny.

My husband had open heart surgery at age 70, he's 75 now, a 3 way bypass. Of course the doctor loaded him up on heart medications, which played havoc with his memory. He couldn't even remember what happened the day before. Back to the doctor we went and one by one, I got him off the drugs. Now he takes fish oil daily and vitamins. I raise our meat and most of our vegetables, so we eat healthy. He gets plenty of exercise on the farm. His blood pressure is above the approved numbers, but that is where he operates the best. Too low and he can't function. It's a double edged sword. 

Yes, running the household is quite a job. Many women juggle job, children, husband and household duties. Thankfully, more men pitch in these days, helping and working together for the good of the family. 

If farm duties are limited to 2 hours a day, how are you going to walk the grid, spraying the weed? Is Jenny still able to go with you on the farm? 

Do you normally allow half to farm fields to lie fallow over the growing season? Or is this something that you do from time to time to rejuvenate the grasses? By cool burn, do you mean burning off the fields in a seasonal pattern? 

$53,000 for Australian White rams! Those must be the best of the best! I wish we had more breeds here in the US. Countries must be so careful in importing livestock. Semen straws and an upbreeding program seem to be the way to go, but it is a long process.


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## Bruce

Well it's only $38K in the US .....  



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> we "spot spray"only one weed ,but we have to cover most of the 300 acs in a grid pattern (on foot) and this takes place over about 6 weeks before flowering takes place..


300 acres looking for a specific plant? Wow, it must be really nasty. 

 for you and Jenny with her declining health. It is hard on both of you.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi ,Bay I used to have the practice of leaving one paddock each year to completely recover and increase diversity over the are.Then select another in the fall to allow the cool season grasses to re-energize for the coming years grazing .This year has been so good that we can extend the practice to cover quite a number of them after what has been a couple of years of depletion due to the "dry"....Jenny comes with me and is great at "spotting" any that I miss as we travel along.

Our system of "cool burning" is to reduce and re-invigorate the Native grasses without scorching the surrounding species.In an earlier post we showed the burn in progress and recently the re-growth that was happening.

Well Bruce,after doing this each year for the last 20 years your brain is trained to respond what your eye detects as you scan the pasture ..Using a grid system is made way easier because of the permanent steel fencing and we can stop at any time and pick up where we were the next day because we use a "dye" in the mix...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, posted the following on FB today,thought it may be of interest .



’day folks, I thought today I would examine COP (cost of production).Because today is not too “flash”,we had some rain overnight and the wind is blowing and the real temperature is below 10 c.
Over the years I have asked on many occasions of farmers large and small, “how much does it cost to get a lamb to market?”, The answer varies mainly depending on the size of the operation .In the main the larger farmers have a pretty good grasp of their costs but as the farm gets smaller farmers tend to be quite unsure about how much it does cost and there are some who reply “I don’t want to know, but I know I never make any money from the farm”.
There is in fact two separate types of return from having livestock .One is financial and the other emotional. Both have the ability to be quite rewarding.
I am going to use our farm as an example .Apart from food and personal every cost has a farm component .E.G. Land rates are calculated at 90%, phone is 50%, internet is 100%, and vehicles are at 80%. And so on as you work through the costs.
Once you have a total you divide it by the number of ewes you breed. IN our case in a “normal “year it is $50.00 per ewe per year. We work on a turnoff of 100% and in the current market a return of $150.00 per lamb, but it was not that long ago when it was $100.00 per head return, but you must just meet the market whatever it is at the time.
Our system of production means that we let the flock determine the level of production which is dependent on the season .For us the arrival of twins is a “bonus” rather than a necessity to fund the final outcome.
Our system of management continually “tests” the strength of the flock and they are bred to survive in all types of weather and feed conditions .There is held within the flock generations of knowledge which is passed from the older generation to the next over time ,in fact I believe it takes a year for the young ewes to acquire all the skills necessary to “survive” and so the reason that replacement ewes are taken away from the flock at 4/5 months of age means they must embark on a journey of “trial and error” to acquire the skills required .The idea of a “short holiday” while the mothers are re-joined is OK,if you watch when the young ewes are let back in with the flock they will “rush” to their mothers side and resume where they left off.
The recent introduction of the 3 Fat Ladies was an interesting test ,in the beginning they waited near to the gate so when the farmer arrived they would call, they were used to on a daily basis getting a ”kiss on the cheek "and a sandwich of Lucerne (Alfalfa) and even now they have not fully integrated into their group, but have teamed up with another ewe who was also a stranger when she arrived ,but they understand if they are “hungry” they graze, if thirsty they walk to the trough or dam, if it’s cold they look to where the rest are and if it is “hot” they find a tree to lay under.
On reading this I am sure some will “scoff” at the ideas presented ,but if you are “new” to sheep these ideas and concepts however non-traditional they be, are worthy of consideration.
I do hope you enjoyed reading this post as I have in writing it...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

What you say just makes sense. The sheep need to know where and how to graze, drink and seek shelter from the elements. My farm is very small, my sheep are spoiled, but even my brats know to go lay down in some shade to ruminate. They do favor their barn, which is actually a 20'x24' roof lean to off the side of a portable storage building, with 1 side. There is heat blocking radiant barrier under the metal roof that makes a big difference in the heat, if given the opportunity they will go back to the coolness of their barn. There are two pastures attached to their barn, the other pastures they just have to go find shade. LOL 

This coming lambing season for 2021 will see heavy culling of my flock. I started with 4 mixed breed ewes, keeping their best daughters, I now have 12 ewes. I have called them my learning sheep. When it comes time to take lambs to auction, ewes will be going too. I may keep 4 or 5 of the ewes I have. Then I will take my money and buy better ewes. I want to add registered Katahdin ewes to go with my awesome ram. I'm looking for better weaning weights, twinning, good conformation, parasite resistance, birthing with no interference from me, and the ability to raise their lambs on grass and hay with small amounts of feed. I am working on grass, it's getting better, but I still have a long way to go. Even with my mixed breed ewes, I have never pulled a lamb. The idea of sitting up all night to pull lambs is utterly foreign to me. I do have a birthing kit if a ewe was to get in trouble, but have never used it. I've had some bad mothers, stupid, who did not do a good job of raising their lambs and they  and their lambs left here rather quickly. 

I learn so much from your posts and I am so glad that you are taking us along with you on switching to hair breeds. Reading and seeing pictures of the different breeds that you are using to build a better sheep for your land and climate is inspiring.


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## Bruce

That all makes sense to me TOR. I guess "hobby farmers" can just raise what they want and ignore the costs (including me and my 2 gelded alpacas and 20 hens, 2 of which are over 8 years old) but a real farmer needs to know how the business is going and work to improve profits to a reasonable degree.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> we had some rain overnight and the wind is blowing and the real temperature is below 10 c.


Doesn't the weather know it is supposed to be a month and more into spring down there????



Baymule said:


> Then I will take my money and buy better ewes. I want to add registered Katahdin ewes to go with my awesome ram.


If you choose carefully I know a guy in TN that has a nice Katahdin herd


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## shuvasishphotography

Excellent Blog! I would like to thank you for the efforts you have made in writing this post. I am hoping for the same best work from you in the future as well. I wanted to thank you for this websites

Great and important Information


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## The Old Ram-Australia

shuvasishphotography said:


> Excellent Blog! I would like to thank you for the efforts you have made in writing this post. I am hoping for the same best work from you in the future as well. I wanted to thank you for this websites
> 
> Great and important Information


Thanks for the note. Its my way of giving back to farmers as over the years many farmers have helped me along the way.I think my tag line says it all... "Knowledge only increases in value, when it is shared"... T.O.R.


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## Kusanar

Bruce said:


> That all makes sense to me TOR. I guess "hobby farmers" can just raise what they want and ignore the costs (including me and my 2 gelded alpacas and 20 hens, 2 of which are over 8 years old) but a real farmer needs to know how the business is going and work to improve profits to a reasonable degree.


Even the commercial farmers sometimes keep some animals for emotional reasons rather than business reasons.

I watch a cattle (dairy) farmer on FB that has I believe 500 head of milkers and most leave when they are no longer profitable, but, on occasion he does keep one into old age because he is attached to her.

I watched a pig farmer that had a 13 year old sow that she kept even though she was having litters half the size of the other sows and still had to have some removed because she couldn't feed them all, that sow died of old age rather than being shipped.

I watch a sheep farmer in Canada that raises lamb for meat, she has 400 ewes but she keeps certain ones because she is attached to them even though they aren't profitable, she actually has I believe 3 rams that she really doesn't want to breed (she keeps replacement ewes from her flock but does not keep rams, she buys all of her breeding rams) but keeps them because she likes them and she sold one to a local small farm rather than shipping him because he needed to go, but she wanted him to have a home not go with the other lambs.

Yes, a commercial farm can't keep EVERY animal or they will go out of business, but a profitable farm usually has room for a few unprofitable animals to live out their lives even on a commercial farm.


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## rachels.haven

That would be the farmers' choice. Every animal has a dollar value that goes with it. Every "pet" means they are that less profitable and they must decide.


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## Baymule

I will be culling half of my little flock this upcoming year. I’ve raised these ewes. They are pets, the decision is bittersweet. But it is time to move to better ewes and this I must do, to improve my flock and move forward.


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## Hens and Roos

We have a list of who gets to stay and who should be sold.  We are only keeping 1 doeling from this year(of course we still have 5 doelings to sell).  This year we sold enough goats already to buy hay & grain.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and thank you all for your comments.For a farmer there will always be that one animal who they are so attached to that they stay forever ,but its when the pet numbers overtake the productive portion of the flock that some "hard" decisions have to be made. Over the years there have been certain animals who because they are special have stayed  for what seems forever....T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

Bruce said:


> That all makes sense to me TOR. I guess "hobby farmers" can just raise what they want and ignore the costs (including me and my 2 gelded alpacas and 20 hens, 2 of which are over 8 years old) but a real farmer needs to know how the business is going and work to improve profits to a reasonable degree.
> 
> 
> Doesn't the weather know it is supposed to be a month and more into spring down there????
> 
> 
> If you choose carefully I know a guy in TN that has a nice Katahdin herd


Unfortunately, all the ewes in that real nice flock are related to that real nice Ram that @Baymule  and her husband drove over 1400 miles to go get.....


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## farmerjan

Sell them with lambs or sell them as bred..... spring time they will bring more with cute little lambs with them... and since they are "pets" in many ways.... ought to sell good to someone wanting to get started.


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## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> Sell them with lambs or sell them as bred..... spring time they will bring more with cute little lambs with them... and since they are "pets" in many ways.... ought to sell good to someone wanting to get started.


I thought they would bring more selling the lambs and ewes separate.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

I think understanding your local market demands, dictates how you generate your best returns...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,a couple of photos to show.New lambs ,one born overnight (white one).We were lucky with this one as we had to move that group to more sheltered grazing as we expect rough weather for the next 4 days...T.O.R.


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## Kusanar

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day folks,a couple of photos to show.New lambs ,one born overnight (white one).We were lucky with this one as we had to move that group to more sheltered grazing as we expect rough weather for the next 4 days...T.O.R.


That brown and white ewe is cool looking, that is such a straight line between the colors!

Edit to add, on second look, she is probably sunbleached black, not brown


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## Baymule

She looks like she was dipped in white paint. I do love spotty sheep, or in this case, half and half Sheep!


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## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> She looks like she was dipped in white paint. I do love spotty sheep, or in this case, half and half Sheep!


I also have a thing for "pig cows" aka belties (black cow with white stripe through the middle). I had a set of toy farm animals when I was a kid and the pigs were belties, then when I discovered that cows came in the same pattern I just about lost my mind and they have forever afterwards been "pig cows" in my mind.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> She looks like she was dipped in white paint. I do love spotty sheep, or in this case, half and half Sheep!


One does need to be careful what they sit in!


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## farmerjan

@Kusanar , just for your general info, there are 2 breeds of "belted cattle".  Dutch belted that are a dairy breed, and belted Galloways that are a beef breed.  When crossed with other breeds the belt is often predominate and will show up , sometimes not as a full belt, but still distinguishable.


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## Kusanar

farmerjan said:


> @Kusanar , just for your general info, there are 2 breeds of "belted cattle".  Dutch belted that are a dairy breed, and belted Galloways that are a beef breed.  When crossed with other breeds the belt is often predominate and will show up , sometimes not as a full belt, but still distinguishable.


I think the ones around here are all the Galloways, but I did recently find out about the Dutch belted and kind of want one... lol


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, yes I think she is a black under that soft winter coat .She will shed it as we forward to summer.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, today we made a few adjustments to the new yard setup.This new addition will allow for foot trimming,weighing and lamb marking without impacting the use of the fourth yard .


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## Baymule

That turn table looks fantastic. It sure will help with the back breaking work! Wish I had one!


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## Bruce

Very nice TOR!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G’day , as a group we are now spread across the whole world and through our members I wonder if we can find others who are working toward a Meat sheep which needs none of the following. Shearing, crutching, drenching, black lining or Vaccinations. Who need none of the following to survive and re-produce, artificial fertilizers, modern pastures species chemical sprays, soil disturbance of any kind and except in Extreme circumstances hand feeding .As well as developing an understanding of landscape and water management. As this is the path I am treading   , surly I must not be the only one  ?So if you are aware of such a person or group please encourage them to join us and share their experiences.

I posted  this on our FB page in Australia called AUSTRALIAN PAINTED SHEEP. In what seems to be quite a short time it has expanded worldwide with sheep people from far and wide joining and highlighting their own and local breeds for the enjoyment of the group..So if you are or know of someone who fits the description ,please have them contact me here or at the page....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, daughter took a snap of me on the boards,(remember I'm 78 now) and its not my best side 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




.But at my age you cannot be too choosy...Getting through the "cleaning up" of the flock,but we still have about 100 to go over the next little while..Frank.


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## Baymule

You are awesome. You get more done at your age than many a young person. I admire you for starting on a composite breed of sheep with all the attributes you listed above. No sitting in the rocking chair for you!


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## THE OTHER OLD RAM

G'day everybody,thought I would post 2 posts from our F.B.page to update you all on the way things are progressing.

G'day folks,it's just started to rain,no wind so it will freshen up all the pastures..The reason for this post is there is a new addition to the farm.He is male and 3 weeks old ,Meg (mum) has been keeping him well hidden and none of the other dogs are allowed near her pen...Not great photos ,but will try for some better ones in coming days.


This afternoon when we took the dogs for a swim in the dam pictured ,I thought a few of the pasture growth would be of interest.
The first couple are of the dam and the area surrounding it.The rest are the area around the new structure in the creek.In the last one the dog is just visible and the growth is up to the running board of the car.Hope you all enjoy.

Questions arising : ,no we do not cut hay: all this growth will return to the soil along with the seed to restore the seed bank ready to respond to the end of the next dry.BTW none of our pastures have been Super-ed in the last 20+ years of our ownership.
in farming our land we have 2 rules which we live by."make the livestock fit the landscape, not the landscape fit the stock", the other is don't drive the land beyond its natural capability "...we have found over the years if you respect the second the capability will naturally increase over time. 

to my mind there is a fixation on neat and tidy attitude to pasture management. lets say" ,you have a 35 c wind blowing across your pasture, if you have cut it to the ground all the soft growth will be burnt to a crisp.but by leaving the dry growth standing the wind is held above this soft growth to be consumed by the stock.what we have found over time that in times of excessive heat the stock will graze in the cool of the night....T.O.R


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## Baymule

Your land shows the care you have given it. Leaving the grass standing for grazing and trampling it down, gives the nutrients back to the soil and adds humus that covers and protects the roots. Most people here overgraze their land, cattle keep nipping off the new growth, not giving the grass time to grow back. 

It is winter here, after a hot and dry summer, dry fall and we just this week got frost. Frost usually comes in the first of November, it is late this year. It is raining, expected to be a half inch, we'll sure take it! I sowed rye grass and crimson clover. Since it was so dry, I was late sowing the seed, but this rain will help. Some is already up, sheep are dry lotted with a big round bale of hay. I grew a large winter squash and am chopping it up for them to have a bit of fresh feed. 






						Giant Pink Banana Squash
					

I planted Giant Pink Banana Squash out of curiosity. I wanted to make pies and have something for sheep treats. I had 3 plants. They sprawled out, went over the fence and up a tree. I picked 6 squash, not bad. I made pie and pumpkin bread, delicious! After a hot dry summer, we finally got rain...



					www.backyardherds.com
				




I bought the seed from www.rareseed.com

That puppy is a cutie! I know he will not only have the best of care, but will enter the pack and get the best training he could possibly get. Do you ever sell any of your puppies or started dogs?


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## Baymule

I just posted a link to my squash thread on your FB page. Hope you don't mind. I thought maybe a discussion on raising treats for sheep might be of interest.


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## Kusanar

On my farm (totally different situation) we have about 10 acres of grass with 3 horses on it. In the spring and early summer the horses can't eat fast enough to keep up and we actually bale our entire winter supply of hay off of the pastures and still leave the grass 4-6 inches tall which quickly springs back up. My horses are still grazing now but we have started supplementing hay free choice to let them take some of the pressure off of the pasture but last time I walked up on top of the hill there was still knee high grass up there that they will clean up before they start seriously eating hay for the winter. 

I am pretty much doing what you are though because all of the hay comes from the land, so the land is fully supporting the animals and all of the hay is fed back so it also goes back to the land in the form of trash hay and manure.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Baymule said:


> I just posted a link to my squash thread on your FB page. Hope you don't mind. I thought maybe a discussion on raising treats for sheep might be of interest.


No worries.I will be interested to see the response T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,I have been invited by our local radio station to have a "chat" live on air about our sheep program and our farm management.It will happen at 11.15 am Aust eastern DST and will be live streamed if anyone is interested in listening.Here is a link.https://braidwoodradio.com.au/live-stream/ At the very least locals will be able to see what we have been up to for the last 20 years..T.O.R.


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## Kusanar

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day folks,I have been invited by our local radio station to have a "chat" live on air about our sheep program and our farm management.It will happen at 11.15 am Aust eastern DST and will be live streamed if anyone is interested in listening.Here is a link.https://braidwoodradio.com.au/live-stream/ At the very least locals will be able to see what we have been up to for the last 20 years..T.O.R.


I may be able to catch that, it will be around 7:15PM here but I get off work at 5 and have to go to the farm and get hay out for the possible snow tomorrow so not sure how long that will take.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Kusanar said:


> I may be able to catch that, it will be around 7:15PM here but I get off work at 5 and have to go to the farm and get hay out for the possible snow tomorrow so not sure how long that will take.


Hi the radio station just changed the time its now 10.20 AM..."it's now 8.50 am down here now...Sorry.T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

Just saw this so not possible to live stream it.  I still think it is nice that you are able to let locals know what you are doing and maybe they can pick up some pointers from you.


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## Baymule

How exciting!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

farmerjan said:


> Just saw this so not possible to live stream it.  I still think it is nice that you are able to let locals know what you are doing and maybe they can pick up some pointers from you.


"The real farmers",will not be impressed (because they know everything,just ask them).Yet to hear how it went,station manager is going to contact me later to chat about it. The presenter would not dwell on any one point but pushed on to the next part of the interview.If I do it again I want to just talk about one aspect of the subject so people can get a grasp of what we are trying to achieve...T.O.R...BTW the presenter was brand new ,first time on air,I think he was more "nervous" than me.


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## Bruce

This is a long shot but I was half listening to the BBC, half sleeping Sunday morning. There was something on about someone in Australia teaching people about land management and improvement, rotational grazing stuff *I THINK! (because I was half asleep)* 
Would that be you or just a coincidence?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Bruce said:


> This is a long shot but I was half listening to the BBC, half sleeping Sunday morning. There was something on about someone in Australia teaching people about land management and improvement, rotational grazing stuff *I THINK! (because I was half asleep)*
> Would that be you or just a coincidence?



I wish.... the BBC, down here there are lots of "experts" ,teaching people about these things with a varying amount of success.Most are academic's who sell there stuff ,ideas and experience.Still yet to hear how I went ! but I was told that in the new year every fortnight or so he will do it again as we only touched on the surface of what our program is all about...T.O.R.


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## Bruce




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## The Old Ram-Australia

SEASONS GREETINGS: Jenny and I would like to wish all the group a safe and happy festive season, and we hope wherever you are you can enjoy this time with your family and friends (COVID 19 restrictions permitting).)........T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Merry Christmas back to you!


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## Finnie

Merry Christmas, TOR!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks and a Happy New Year to you all.

Since my last post we have had an extended period of cool wet days and apart from carrying out some more weed control its all been pretty quiet.

So I guess its time for a few photos?....This shot of Sam and Meg is one I like!
The other is from Sunday Chat ,which is something I recently started on FB Painted sheep and its a look back over the week on the farm and items I think are of interest to the group. (BTW, the group is now 580 strong) Included in SC is "the boys baking club",where i post photos of my efforts and encourage to try ,only one rule you must start with an ALDI packet cake mix. This one will be posted tomorrow in this weeks chat.Its a Coconut Butter Cake with a Lime frosting.By starting with a packet mix everyone is equal and then it is up to their skill and imagination.

Our pastures are going from strength to strength ,with many of the grasses setting seed in the next few days they are forecasting some warmer weather (28/30 c) which will hasten the process somewhat.The district is being flooded with Saffron Thistle this year and most farmers just seem to be ignoring it a decision I think will come back to haunt them in coming years.

Anyway ,hope you all enjoy the photos...T.O.R.


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## Mini Horses

A cooking challenge -- cake no less!   Hide the scales.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Mini Horses said:


> A cooking challenge -- cake no less!   Hide the scales.


"Hide the scales",I believe that life is too short for cheap Whisky of being deprived of anything sweet!..T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Love the picture of Sam and Meg. Boys cake baking club, eh? Looks like you are doing rather well at that. No matter what a cake looks like, they taste good!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Baymule said:


> Love the picture of Sam and Meg. Boys cake baking club, eh? Looks like you are doing rather well at that. No matter what a cake looks like, they taste good!


Thank you Bay, The FB group is made up of over 75% female and so to encourage the "boys" to participate  I thought this was one way .Our support nurse who comes to the farm once each week says that when the local show/fair resumes i must enter the boys only cake cooking section...T.O.R.


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## messybun

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Thank you Bay, The FB group is made up of over 75% female and so to encourage the "boys" to participate  I thought this was one way .Our support nurse who comes to the farm once each week says that when the local show/fair resumes i must enter the boys only cake cooking section...T.O.R.


The cake looks amazing! Baking should be for enjoyment in any case, and I think you got that down to a T.


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## Bruce

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> only one rule you must start with an ALDI packet cake mix


Well that leaves ME out (besides the fact that I don't "do" Facebook), there is no Aldi store near here.

Coconut lime sounds tasty.


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## Kusanar

Bruce said:


> Well that leaves ME out (besides the fact that I don't "do" Facebook), there is no Aldi store near here.
> 
> Coconut lime sounds tasty.


Yeah, I don't have one either.... You could probably cheat and use walmart brand. I doubt there is that much difference in the mix


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day Bruce,the idea of the "boys baking club" is just a "bit of fun" and a light relief from the demands of farming.As I said most of the FB group are female and are the most active (which is great) .In the more formal breed sites the girls sometimes feel a little inhibited I think and from comments I have received they really appreciate the nature of the site where they can express their opinion's and "show off" their results without any adverse comments from the boys.

The Coconut Butter cake with the Lime frosting was really great and I am planning one for "nurse" soon ,as she is Lactose intolerant and cannot have fruit, so you may well ask how do you bake a cake without milk?I use yogurt instead,it seems to be OK...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

There are several men in the BYC Home Baker's Thread. I've gotten pretty consistent with my King Arthur Basic Sourdough sandwich loaf.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

OFF to work,we have reached the sheep and they are waiting for "the call"...T.O.R.

From right to left.Meg,Tina,Max and Ruby.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,new Persian ram arrived home today...Time is short at the minute but will have more to say later.T.O.R.

Back again.There are a couple of things to note from the photos,in the R/H photo the lamb on the left is a wether out of a Damara by a Van Rooy. The cover over the hind is not as good as a Persian ,but  is pretty damm good and the reduction of the tail from the Damara is interesting.Going forward the results of this x in a female joined to the Persian will be of great interest.The other lamb is a female from a W.H. Dorper over a Wiltipol ewe,a nice ewe but lacking the muscle over the hind and has a full tail.She will in time be joined to the Persian and her daughters will be joined to the Van Rooy...Hope you find this sort of information interesting?..T.O.r.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,in the last couple of days we have had the dogs (as a group) gather up the lambs from a paddock close to the yards and put them away with some feed  overnight .In the early photos the dogs are strung out across the group .In the 2nd /3rd Max is sent to bring some stragglers up to the group.In the 4th /5th photo the dogs are waiting for us to arrive so they can move them through the gateway on the run-up to the yards.The last two is putting the last of the lambs into the yards....Good job,they moved them all as one without any trying to escape back down the hill.


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## Bruce

You've got some really great dogs there TOR!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Bruce said:


> You've got some really great dogs there TOR!


Thanks Bruce,but I cannot take all the credit.These dogs have years and years of careful breeding behind and their sole aim is to get the "job done"...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, further to the conversation on the dogs. The Australian Working Kelpie to my mind is un-matched when it comes to stock work,(now I know I will get plenty who say their breed is the best)my dogs are X's of Kelpie,Border Collies and a "cut" of Dingo.I don't in fact "train" my pups I harness their natural instincts and intelligence along with a desire to please the "boss" and actively compete with each other to get individual praise from myself.

I have never been a "stand at the gate " and expect the dogs to bring the sheep to me,our sheep instinctively move away from myself and the dogs and the dogs are used to "guide" the flock towards the destination .Kelpies are at their best when they know the job and have successfully completed it because when they return to me they will be praised for their efforts. My dogs also seem to understand that a visit to the sheep does not always mean there is a task to complete but watch and wait for the signal that work is about to commence,such is the intelligence of the breed...T.O.R.


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## High Desert Cowboy

I will say that I have been incredibly impressed with kelpies and how they work. They seem to be completely fearless and totally focused on their job, from puppies on up to the old timers.  I’ve gotten to work around them with cows and they will not back down.  They’re definitely on my “Dogs to one day own” list


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, it's been a while I know but there has been lots going on down here on the farm as those of you on FB can attest....We have now entered Fall and the farm is in the best condition "ever",The cool end to Summer has the pastures in great condition and the current drop of lambs set to be perfect for the coming ethnic celebrations and will attract a premium I am sure ,a just reward for our efforts in breed selection.

For those of you with an interest in non traditional management FB Indigo Ag are presenting a discussion with Fred Provenza on US CT 7.30 AM on March 4. Prof Fred is world famous for his work with animals and has been over time a mentor for myself.

In recent times Jenny's condition has significantly progressed and personal care is part of the daily routine as is everything to do with the running of the household and the farm. The one thing I find disturbing is her incontinence which involves waking many times in the night which impacts me with "broken sleep" and is something I have not solved as yet.

Photos show pasture recovery after 6 weeks rest from grazing...T.O.R.


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## Mini Horses

Looks fantastic!


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## Bruce

Your grasses look terrific!

I'm sorry to hear about Jenny, can you get any help for her or with the farm work? One can't be a full time farmer at the same time as being a full time caretaker for very long


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## Baymule

I'm sorry that Jenny's condition is getting worse. I have no words, I have never dealt with that situation. Just know that you can always come here and talk it out, we will listen.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you Bay, to answer Bruces comment ,Its the level of separation anxiety that is the problem.Last week for the first time in 3 years I had 2 hours where I knew Jenny was being looked after and I could relax. In recent times we have had a support lady from the local hospital come each week for 2 hours and as of this week she will come for 5 .When I advised jenny of this change she had a "minor" meltdown as to why they have to come to the farm for that long. The idea of support coming to the farm is something that challenges her I think and I am sure her perception is that it wont be long before she is sent to residential care (which by the way is not even on the radar).

We are on a waiting list for a financial support package from the fed govt,due to changes in her care requirement we are now applying for an increase in the package going forward.The package will fund home help as required and is something that will be necessary going forward especially were anything to happen to me on the farm,(its not something I expect ,but these days one never knows )...I do appreciate your support both online and in your prayers and it is wonderful that you all take the time to offer support...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

I hope she comes to know and like the people that come to help such that she looks forward to seeing them. I don't know if that is something she can do or not. But it is good for her to know that you are doing everything necessary for her to stay in her home


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## Baymule

We have been here for you every step of the way and we will keep on this journey with you. I can’t imagine the hurt of watching Jenny slip away. You are a kind and loving man and there aren’t many like you that could meet this challenge. It is a good thing that you are getting home health care for her. It does give you a bit of a break.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Sam’s education is proceeding and it seems he has a natural “sit” when unsure and is starting to understand “heel” on the lead. He now “sits” while I let him off of the tether and “waits for the OK” before joining the others. At feed time he sits and waits for the “OK” before eating. For the first time this week he “cleared “the tailgate into the trailer just like the big dogs and as long as the trailer is facing “downhill” he is OK , (but then he is still very young and it will only be another couple of weeks). In further news on the dog front, Meg who is “seasoning "and was tethered inside a 5 ft enclosure had a visit from 2 of our neighbours' dogs (lucky they are both working Kelpies), so I guess we will have some “puppies for sale” at some point in the future...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

At least the puppies will be Kelpies. I lock my Anatolian in the trailer. I take her out and let her loose in a small enclosure only under my supervision, then lock her back up. She hates it, I hate it, but no puppies!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,I have copied a post from our FB page ,I hope you all enjoy.

G'day folks,here is a few photos,yesterday we drafted off the adult baseline ewes into two groups.The sheep shown are a mix of WH Dorper and Wiltipols.they have been randomly joined to Wiltipol,Wh Dorper and Aussi White rams to establish an on farm first generation and the ewe lambs will be joined to either Persain or Van Rooy rams to intoduce cleaner sheeding and color.
Yesterday was Sam's first real introduction to the sheep.Max was held back and I observed both Him and Tina in a paddock situation.Sam has all the instincts of a really good paddock dog as shown in the photos,Tina will as she grows in confidience will make a handy "yard" IMO.
There are several things to take note of with Sam,in the first pic he is working behind the mob at the same pace as the sheep,he did not at any stage "rush" the sheep also note the "head down " stance and the sheep are moving quietly without feeling "threatened" by his presence,also note Max is well back but watching the situation.2nd pic.Sam and Max are now a lot closer to the sheep as they approach the narrow section leading to the yards but the sheep are still quite calm.3rd pic. The job is almost "done" when one of the rams turns back on the dogs,Sam "holds" his ground with Max close behind,Sam does not apply any pressure and the Ram turns to follow the others into the yards.All things considered a very successful introduction for Sam and I am well pleased with him...T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

Nice that Sam seems to be getting the idea so well and not over exuberant or pushy.  A real testament to your skill and the breeding of the dogs.   Puppies will make you just a little busier....
Sheep look good. 

So sorry about things with Jenny.  My mom has progressed to now being totally dependent on the home health care, cannot even stand or walk on her own,  and she is pretty much non-responsive.  My father's health is not good either;  had to be taken to the hospital thinking it was a heart attack and they feel it was an anxiety attack.... causing chest pains, numbness in the arm and leg..... it is a tough situation for my brother who is the POA......my father promised my mother she would never go into a nursing/care facility... yet it seems that she has no real understanding of where she is now, and it would be alot easier and much more financially sound for her to be in a place rather than home health care.  Now that my father is getting weaker, and is having some memory and other issues, they would both be better off but he won't hear of it.  This will bankrupt them.  If he was able to at least do some of the care it would be different, but he can't and has himself in a state all the time.  He has nothing else to occupy his mind or time and is wasting away with worry and inactivity.  

God Bless you for doing for her, and being able to get out on the farm so that you also have an out for your mental and physical well being.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you Farmer Jan for your note.It would seem we are in a similar situation,as our youngest daughter is looking out for us.At some point your Dad will have to acept that he cannot care for your mum going forward and maybe they can stay together .Jenny's seperation anxiety means that I have to be in sight of her 24/7,she will sit in the car while I undertake stuff to do with the farm but I understand that this is only for a limited time in the future.I to have undertaken that she will stay on the farm, but even I realize that that cannot be the case forever because of the progression of her condition.Thankfully I put in place things in the past so the finiancal things are covered ,you hear so many storys of couples who struggle with the costs which end up have to be being carried by their children,

My situation is helped by the Net,farm and the fact we now have a lass come once a week for 5 hours  which means although I cannnot leave but at least I can focus on other things and can have conversations with another adult in our home environment. Working with the dogs is a great mental break for me ,the pups will add to the workload but it will be OK...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

A lot is said about young love, songs are written, books are written, but the REAL love is old love. Love that has stood the test of time, life's ups and downs, good times and bad times. Old love that spans the years and years is what tells the real story of love.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, I know that many of you do not follow FB,so I am posting a series of photos taken this morning after 150mls of rain in the last week.

After “breakie” Jenny and I undertook a tour of the farm along with my “trusty” little digital camera to record the impact of all this rain on our landscape. I am including the photos and video along with some text explaining how the effects of all this rain has had on our landscape.
Photo 1. this is the highest Swale on the slope and it has taken over 100mls to start the surface flows, the design of the swale is such that it acts like a bathtub and overflows at the end when full. (note clarity of exit flow).
Photo 2. The second level swale showing the same effect, fills completely and clean water exiting into a dense layer of grasses.
Photo’s 3/6. This series are situated as we move down the slope, worth noting is the “clarity” of the water in the last.

hope you enjoy..T.O.R.

P.S. After lunch I will post some photos of the impact on the creek itself.


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## Baymule

And those swales hold the water on your pastures instead of draining away. What good pastures you have now.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Back again. Because I don't think I can post videos ?here are a couple of stills.

P1. this structure os over 13 years old,it was constructed from old wooden fence posts that had "rottedof" at ground level after 40 years in the ground.I'm not sure if you can make it out but there is a distinct difference in the water level above and below.The difference in level indicaites the reduction in flow speed down the drainage line.

P2/P3. Is the site of the underground weir and shows the catchment pool which because of its depth reduces the energy of the flowand the second one shows the exit from the pool.

P3. This is the most rewarding photo of all.It's our boundary fence,you could "drink" this water without ang health worries.Note,apart from the clarity of the flow ,there is no floating debris and nothing "hung up "on the fence it's self.This result is the work of over 12 years careful management.....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

You are an inspiratation, not just in your own country, but across the world. I hope to someday to have such bountiful pasture such as you have.


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## Bruce

I was wondering how you were making out with all the rain. Two summers ago, insane fires, this fall torrential rain


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, today I was so excited to be involvel in a ZOOM  with Indgo Ag. the guest speaker was Prof Fred Provenza (do a Google search).Fred and I have been involved over many years in the projects we have devoloped and it was an oppertunity to talk about our programs to both ranchers and academics in the USA.

If I am "lucky" enough to be invited back I will let you know so those who are interested can be involved in the discussion...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Wow! What a good thing to be able to participate in. You have a lifetime of experience and are an asset to the entire sheep industry.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you ,everyone.There was one moment which was memorable for me .I suggested ,"that the most under vauled" asset on the farm was the "farmers wife"? A "cheer" went up from the moderater as I went on to explain that the running of a household budget is an exersise in Economics and the profitability of a farm is no different.T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, I would like your views and opinuins on the following.

Given the gobal state of things,would you."Invest in increasing the output from for your present farm,or,maintain your current output and reduce your Cost Of Production by modifying your management thinking"?

This is going to be the topic for this weeks radio chat. Our circumstances as an exporting country will be different to your own,but I am interested in your views of your own domestic market...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

I'm not in the animal business but here are my 2 cents: Both could make sense. 

Seems like producing the same for less money would pretty much always be a good idea and a goal for any producer.

With Covid vaccines becoming available people will be getting out more so there is potential for the demand to increase. Producing more might make more money depending on the net profit from each model.

If no one increases production and demand rises, sell prices will rise as well. If everyone starts producing more and the demand doesn't increase at the same rate, prices go down. I'm sure you know that though


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,I took some photos this morning of one of the ewe groups and the rams that are running with them.The ewes are a mix of W.H.Dorpers and Wiltipols,the rams are also the same breeds ,2 Wilti's and 1 Dorper.

The idea of this small group about 25 ewes is to produce a 1x ewe lamb well on the way to being locally adapted to the farm and from there to use different breeds of rams to start the process of our "ideal" mother.

P1.The two Rams,the Dorper is on the right and the Wilti is the other,both have desirable traits although the Dorper is quite a deal heavier,but the Wilti has "length".

P2/3. Are some of the ewes,both breeds in the females are quite similar and you can only distingish the difference at very close quarters..Hope you enjoy...T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

The sheep look really good.  I like that you are trying to produce an animal that will thrive in your environment instead of chasing a "type" that has become popular.   
Liked the pictures of the water and the effects of your swales to slow down and retain the water as well as keeping the soil in place with the grasses.... 
We had rain last night and today.  Thunderstorms and some fast downpours,  I saw a creek that runs along side the road that was very muddy after the hard rain earlier.

Thanks for sharing the pictures and all with us.  
Seems I have heard of Fred Provenza in conjunction with rotational grazing?   

With the way things are going, we are trying to cut some of our costs rather than expand our cattle herd.  We are also doing a little trading since there is a buyer who can use some of the more common average cattle and wants them at a weight that seems to be a good weight for us to be able to buy "cheaply".   So we are doing a little buying and selling to this person.  Not having a lot invested and for not a real long time so that there is some turn over at a little bit of a profit.  But we are trying to maybe manage our grass better, and trying to keep some more productive, "better cattle".... culling those that are not as good,  or raise as good a calf .  
I am concerned about the world wide situation, and especially the situation here in the states after our last election and the current administration.  Things like the "PAUSE"  bill that has been proposed in Colorado, makes you very leery of some of the extremists trying to control even the animal industries.... That bill has about as much common sense as wearing your bathing suit in a snowstorm....as far as the restrictions they want to put on farmers.... all in the name of animal welfare and all..... by people that have no idea of what really goes into safe and sensible farming practices... If you have a chance to google it, please do.  I would be interested in your take on it.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you fartmerjan, observing water flows is an important task if you wish to improve water infliltration on your farm.In reality I think you don't have to invest in expensive Swales.We were lucky  in that the work had already been done,but the lack of ability by the then owners to understand meant that it never functioned until we purchased the farm and learned how to manage it.

To begin with if you have poor penertration of rainfall you have to go out there when it is raining to identify the natural water floes.Once you know how water moves ,you can then devolop systems to control those floes.Our farm is generally speaking "rolling countryside"with the fall from the highest to the lowest point s about  70 mts and our main catchment is about 400 acs.Understanding the way water moves is just your first step in understanding how to control it. When we started I had to learn about the highest part of the catchment and improve the penertration there before I could change the problems at the bottom.Ideally the flow at the bottom needs to have dispersed before the arrival of the upper catchment flows arrive. This is not an "easy task" and it took me several years to understand how to control it.

I looked for a link to how it will effect farmers but I think you will have to send me a link.Prof Fred Provenza from Utah State is a world authority in a range of HM and animal behavor subjects.

Down here I believe we as farmers are the most over regulated and taxed farmers on earth.We have to record everything we do and we are subject to being audited at any time.We must have recorded any actions relating to the stock on our farm even if we move animals from the home farm to another we own.every action we take in relation the livestock must be recorded.Right down to any chemical or fertilizer inputs used ,where and when.We must keep records when we use preditor controls at what time and where on the farm.

Your ability to devolop a buy and sell market is great along with the culling of unproductive animals.Breeding the best and selling the rest will result in a locally adapted animals which will require less work and inputs over time I am sure....Thank you for your input to the topic...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

PAUSE: Ballot initiative to criminalize husbandry practices would cost consumers, limit food availability
					

A ballot initiative proposed, currently known as Protect Animals from Unnecessary Suffering and Exploitation (PAUSE), is awaiting an appearance before the title board after being filed with the Colorado Secretary of State. Proponents Alexander Sage…




					www.thefencepost.com
				












						Remember the MeatOut Day controversy? That's nothing compared to a proposed ballot initiative.
					

The proposed ballot measure would make ranchers wait to slaughter animals until they are older, which ranchers say would devastate Colorado’s agriculture economy.




					coloradosun.com
				




I couldn't find the actual bill, but found plenty of articles against it. Killing the agriculture in Colorado would mean that food would just come from other states while the idiots would congratulate themselves on "saving" animals in Colorado. How in the world did people get so stupid? Oh, wait, maybe because the marijuana stoners brains are numbed down?


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## Baymule

As a stubborn, independent, Remember The Alamo, Texan, I can't imagine the extreme government intrusion that you suffer under. It's getting just as bad here though. I have nothing good to say about our present administration and I'll leave it at that or I'll start saying ugly (true) things. 

Hard to tell you what to do with your flock. Invest more? Hold what you have? The uncertain future market does make you think. I would think worst case scenario, since Australia is an export country, what if sales went down? Who is your market and what is the state of affairs in those countries? Then go to best case scenario with an optimistic approach, then probably hit somewhere in the middle. 

For myself, we were developing a decent (small) meat business until Covid hit and it became next to impossible to get slaughter dates. We sold meat or live lambs and took them to slaughter, where people paid us for the lamb, then paid the slaughter fee when they picked up their meat. We not only broke even last year, but made a small profit.  Pigs I can plan on, buying piglets and raising them to slaughter age, and book a date a year or more away. Lambs, not so much. Just a month or two can make a difference. Ewes don't ALL lamb in the same week, or even month, no matter how I plan. So we are taking ours to auction and skipping the slaughter/meat sales. 

This go around, we are selling half the ewes, a grand total of 6 to auction. I am keeping 6 ewe lambs that are of much better quality. We will take lambs to auction after they get a little more size on them, they are two months old now. I'll be looking for some registered ewes to add to the flock. I have a ram that I want registered sons from, I don't want to "lose" his bloodline. 

So for me, I'm upgrading my flock and will invest in better quality ewes. My flock is small, if the economy crashes and prices hit the skids, we can eat well. I could supply family and neighbors with meat. Maybe help a few others establish a small starter flock to raise their own meat. I purposely chose small livestock with an eye on worst case scenario, so I could help family and friends survive. I am optimistic that prices will go up or hold steady because people like lamb. I can jump to either best or worst case, but planning for best, prepared for worst.

I have bought giant bermuda grass seed to sow in a particularly barren strip of our land. For the past two years, we have fed the horses their hay on it, moving the bale each time, to build up the humus from the waste hay and horse manure. Going to clean out the horse barn to spread the manure in a few places the hay bales skipped over. Then disc it all in so the seed can make good ground contact and pray for rain. My "investment" is only $300 for a 25 pound bag of seed, so a much smaller scale than yours. 

We have been attending local auctions, learning best time to market. Since we have put aside individual sales, we now have to learn a new game. We discovered we are in the wrong market time of year and it may take two breedings to hit the best market time for our lambs. Plus we live in an area that sheep and goats are not in the best prices, to take to a "better" auction would be over 200 miles away and 4 hours drive time. So any better price would be eaten up by fuel costs. 

So that's my take on my very small operation. I'm nowhere near your operation, just a very small flock. My target is around 15 ewes, high quality registered and commercial. That will give me options of selling the top few  for registered breeding stock or commercial to take to auction.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you Bay,the animal libs having forced a lot of regs on us are now trying to get "pain relief" or a vet to do desexing of males and tail docking.Lucky both of these things will not be an issue for us going forward as we will in a couple of generations breed the tails out of the flock and after a chat with a fellow from Parkistan there is no requirement for desexing of males in their culture unless specifically requested.

You also sound as if you have identified a "niche" locally and are working toward it,good on you.

Animal rights groups are gaining strength from "city folks" who have "no idea" how food is produced but deplore the things that are depicted by the few "bad apples' in the industry.The animal libbers have infltrated groups like the RSPCA and now have an ear with govt to attempt to gain their ultimate objective of no domestic animal production...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

The animal libbers won't stop, they want an end to pets also. In their utopia, all animals are wild and live in their so called natural state. What morons. They do not care that this would end centuries of selective breeding of every type of farm animal for their particular environment and use. These idiots have an agenda and it is to end all animal sales of all types. Just because they are vegans, they want to impose their beliefs on everyone else. Maybe we should all grow beans.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, I am posting a paper I wrote for Australian Painted Sheep (FB). Although it relates to not only our farm by the Sheep meat industry down here going forward.Its an example of how I think about not only our farm but possible outcomes for our industry and how we endevour to protect ourselves against any "bumps in the road".

As a  sheep producer be you large or small you have to try to protect yourselves from possible concquences from outside your control.Imagine if you were a supplier to Mountain States Rosen in Colorado when they failed and the new buyer JBS decided to forego Lamb processing in the future.How would you  respond?

Anyway ,I hope you enjoy the read,it's a bit long,but I hope you find it a worthwhile...

CONSIDERING POSSIBLE CHALLANGES IN THE YEAR AHEAD.
There is an old truism, "if you fail to plan , you plan to fail”.
Just as we budget our grazing, we also need to consider possible challenges that could arise in the period between joining and marketing.
Currently there are some serious factors that could impact the sheep business in the year ahead.
Covid 19, is not going to disappear and in spite of the utterances of the govt it is going to impact us for at least a year (IMO). International travel is “years away”. This will impact the Foodservice demand for lamb.
The demise of the “live sheep trade” is not going to be replaced by carcass sales. Southern Europe is gearing up to supply that market now that they do not have Australia as competition. So, producers in Western Australia could be forced to put vast quantities of lamb onto the local market which will increase pressure on producer returns in the Eastern states
Britain is going have to support its local producers, due to the loss of EU markets.
The EU members will I believe, move to protect its own farmers and restrict imports to protect what they consider as “unfair competition “from other country's including Australia and New Zealand.
Chinas issues with Australia could result in trade barriers if she can replace Lamb from us with red meat from South America.
The increasingly aggressive stance by North Korea could impact sales to South Korea, Vietnan and Japan.
At this point of time the only stable market appears to be the USA, but changes to farming by the new administration could impact even this market.
So, what are the options for us producers? Well MLA are advising us to all invest and increase production as if we have nothing to worry about, but exporters/processers are “pushing back” against govt charges as being excessive and the industry cannot afford. Because we are in the main an exporting country when it comes to sheep meat these protests are something we need to heed as if exporters face a more difficult time, it will be producers who suffer the cost.
Of course, we as producers can adopt a conservative approach and hold our production at the farms present level and change our management to reduce our current Cost Of Production. The biggest change is in our thinking in just how we go about the task. On our farm we estimate just how much feed we need for the coming 12 months. I have posted this formula before but I will do it again.
Let's assume for the sake of the exercise, we keep it simple:
100 breeders ,100acs and 10 paddocks (you can use the formula, just insert your numbers) 100 B x 365days=36,500 sheep grazing days, divided by 10 paddocks = 3650 sheep grazing days per paddock, per year. Using a 15 day cycle each paddock will be grazed 2 and a half times (assuming flock is 1 group) in the 12 months. (10 paddocks x15 days =150 days) …...This will cause some stress on the farm in the first 12 months as both you, the farm and the livestock adjust to this quite dramatic change in grazing. It may be that you will require to do some “hand-feeding” but if you adopt some other changes this cost can be negated.
Our farm is 300acs,30% is woodland, so we have a maximum carrying capacity of 300 breeders. It’s over 12 since we started and in spite of two droughts, bush fires (during which we were subjected to four continues months of smoke and ash). When the drought broke with flooding rains, we lost quite a number of our breeder ewes to lung failure as a result of the non-stop of breathing in smoke and ash. We are currently in a re-building phase and once we reach terminal size with by the way a completely “adapted” flock to our landscape and environment.
At terminal flock size we will re-access the carrying capacity of the farm and each year subtract 20% of the stock we judge as being the least productive based on the flock average and add the top 20% of the last generation. This strategy will result in a complete turnover of the whole flock in just 5 years.
We have now started down this path and from here on we will not drench, not vax, not backline not de-sex males, not tail dock, not use any synthetic fertilizers, not till the soil and only “spot spray” Serrated Tussock (as required by law).
We have already got identified a niche market for our sheep which returns a premium v/s selling through the saleyards. The savings on variable costs and more importantly “labour inputs” is quite substantial as you can imagine if you compare with your own costs.
In the first instance the savings should be re-directed into “fencing” because “Wire grows grass”. The new shedding breeds have a “terrible reputation “when it comes to fencing, in fact we had to re-design our wire layout to contain them, but once they understand that it is easier to stay in the paddock “we “choose for them, life becomes so much more pleasant.
If the above has “struck a chord” with you. spend a little time thinking about what we have done and our success so far in both stock health and savings in our COP. OH, one other thing the use of a complete mineral mix is “not optional”.
I do hope some of you respond by posting your views and opinuins..Frank.


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## Baymule

Well said. I don't have near enough pasture, but I manage what I have. I always learn from your posts, thank you for sharing your years of experience and wisdom.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bay,here is the difference between you and many I speak to ,you acknowledge and accept your farms shortcomings and factor these extra costs into your operation. Many do not...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I have worked at trying to make the beach sand we have here, more friendly to grass. It has been difficult. Grass seed will come up, then the hot months get here, the sand heats up and the grass shrivels and dies. We have fed the horses their hay round bale on the pipeline for the past 2 years, for the dropped waste hay and their manure to provide humus to improve the soil. We also have gotten loads of wood chips from powerline cleaning crews. They decompose and we add them to the mix. I have my grass seed ready and am ready to disc and drag the soil to prepare for sowing the seed. We have to finish getting a huge old oak tree cut up and hauled away. Lightening struck it last summer, a friend is taking it away, wish we had a fireplace! LOL 

Yes, I recognize my little farm's shortcomings. I'll never be able to run 100 ewes on it, but I can have a small flock and that gives me great happiness. We are taking 6 ewes to auction tomorrow, 2 have lambs on them. This cuts my flock in half. Keeping 6 ewe lambs that are leaping bounds, better than what we are taking to auction. I'll be looking for a few good registered ewes so I can have registered breeding stock to sell as well as my commercial sheep. 

I have 3 ram lambs from this year's lambing that are outstanding. They tower over the rest of the lambs, long loin, great conformation and a calm disposition. I'm thinking I'll grow them out for a few more months and offer them for sale as commercial flock sires. One is white, one is black and white and one is tri colored, black, white, and brown. Eye candy doesn't hurt LOL.

In my limited pasture, I now have lush rye grass and clovers. I've been keeping the sheep mostly off, letting the grass grow, waiting until we took the 6 culls off to auction. I'll use this growth to flush the ewes and get them back in good condition for breeding. 

Thanks for letting me ramble on!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bay, how did the sheep go at the auction?I would never treat your posts as "rambling's".we all learn from the experiences of others.Anyone who thinks there is nothing more to learn is a "fool" in my eyes...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, now I know how your all love photos?So here a a couple of the latest.

First lambs this year.

The first is a "craftly old ewe" who is looking pretty close,we saw her yesterday when we checked theflock ,but today she was nowhere to be seen.She has most likely lambed and is hiding in the bush.

the second photo is a ewe that lambed today,nice strong lambs ,great udder and the lambs drinking at will...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

We got as good or better prices than anybody else. The lambs sold separately and brought more money than they would have selling as a trio or pair. We were happy with the sale.  We hope to buy 3-4 registered ewes with the proceeds. 

We have learned that the best time to take lambs to auction is January-February. That’s our winter and people breed for spring lambs. So the demand outstrips the supply and prices are higher. @Mike CHS brought this to our attention recently so we went to auction to observe. We talked to buyers and the general consensus was to have lambs ready to go January 1.
We weaned lambs yesterday, separated ram and ewe lambs. I’ll dry off the ewes, then flush them for breeding. I may miss the mark by a little next year, but after that, we’ll be on track.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day got another photo of the twins 24 hours later. In an interesting conversation about the benifiets of drenching for worms I was described as"a mad scientest" for the way we manage our flock...I consider this praise from someone who has "no idea" of how we operate ...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Nice looking lambs. I like the way black head Dorpers mark mixed breed lambs with black markings on their faces. We have a wether (bottle baby) with black eye patches so we named him Panda. He'll be the ram companion, so will have a job. 

Mad scientist indeed! LOL


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## Bruce

I don't see any Frankensteins in your flock.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,we were out checking the ewes today,apart from the twins three more have lambed.But I thought this shot of three of the dogs waiting foer me to get back to the truck was a "classic"...T.O.R.

ATTEN Nifty,POW?


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## Baymule

I love it! They are hoping that you have work for them to do!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, a couple of todays photos,these are part of a larger group of WH.Dorpers and Wiltipols.2 have lambed and have returned to the group,they did in fact lamb in the Grassy Woolland...Today's "smoko",its a twist on the Aldi Banana Bread mix.....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

The sheep are looking fine, so does the bread


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, some new news from us.Meg had her pups last evening,7 but 2 were "still".

I have a contact at one of the MIddle Eastern Embassy's,so I sent him a note offering them a lamb for the upcoming celerbration.Its is for free all I ask is for some feedback on the taste and quality of the meat. I have no doubt that if it is to their likeing they will purchase in the future and word will "get around" the other embassy's and so we should establish a list of clients in the future...TO.R.


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## Baymule

That is a beautiful litter. Too bad about the 2 stillborns but you have 5 healthy puppies. I love Meg’s color, I am partial to tan markings on a chocolate or black colored dog.
That’s a great idea about the embassy and will provide a steady stream of customers once word gets around. Direct marketing is lucrative once you get a customer base.

We raise feeder pigs and had one customer, which paid for the one we raised for ourselves. We just gained 2 more customers and will actually make money on the 3 pigs we are raising now. We have 2 customers each wanting half a steer, have a steer reserved for December and now only need a slaughter date in March 2022. LOL wish me luck on the slaughter date. We now have 5 customers that buy chicken from us. We raise the Cornish Cross meat chickens. It started out with 1 customer, it paid for ours, it is growing slowly.

We did have a decent start on lamb meat customers, but nailing down a slaughter date a year or more in advance on lambs not even conceived yet, much less born, was just too ridiculous. So we have taken them to auction and done well there.

My question, on your lamb customers, do they do the slaughtering themselves? My lamb customers were white people who wouldn’t even think about slaughtering an animal themselves. I would welcome an ethnic customer base.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi folks, good news ,the chap came anrd picked up that free lamb and ordered 20 (twenty) to be picked up for EID in 2 months time....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Hey that is great! Way to go, that’s good promotion of your lamb!


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## Mini Horses

Great promotion!!   That 20 will increase....we both know this.   Hang on.  

Now, don't show them the cakes. You can't keep up with orders.    

Love the pups.  I'm with Bay, love the tan on liver coloring.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, it's been a while what with one thing and another.Lambing continues and I am really both happy and surprised by the results so far because we  are getting some really nice colors and types along the lines of what we are aiming for.......Megs pups are growing at such a rate and yesterday had their first meal away from "mum",they now get 3 timesm a day some dry food soaked in milk and yoghurt.

Tomorrow will be another radio live to air ,at which time i will be announcing that from next month I will be hosting a dedicaited half hour about living on and running a small farm whilst holding down a job in town,the title of which will be "Our Farm" and each month we will chat about a different aspect of owning and keeping livestock..From discussions I have had the influx over the last 20 years of city folks (most from a professional background) wishingto experience the country life but with absolutly no idea of how to go about it.Anyway ,I will let you all know how it goes.

I also caught up with one of the Fat Lady's ,it looks like she will be a "twinner",a far cry from when they first arrived.

Hope you all enjoy,BTW ,the radio interviews are streamed on the web at Braidwood FM 88.9 and select the streaming option.....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Great news especially on the radio show!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, it is with a heavy heart that I write this post,Jenny's condition has progressed to such an extent that conversation is almost non existent,apart from the personal care (showering and the like) she now requires help with dressing and her activity level has almost ceased.She is sleeping about 12 hours in the night and more time during the day.Her only conversation is restricted to answering a question directed at her,thankfully her diet/appertite has remained good .Recently I did go throught a bad patch,but was helped by the support folks from the local mental health unit,once I accepted the fact that I was getting exhausted and my own health was suffering,things improved but over the last week I have had a serious dose of the flu,which has also taken its toll,but now I am almost recovered and feeling that I am back in control I am much better no doubt helped by medicaition and an array of Single Malt Whisky's...lol.

The Internet has become my savior and being able to reach out to friends around the world is so good. The FaceBook group is now over 1000 and is growing at a rate I never thought possible..The radio program is going to be something I think I will really enjoy,I have arranged for a lass from the hospitial to come to the radio station and stay will Jenny while I am on air....

Next week we are expecting a delivery of 2 new rams from Victioria,they are Poll Damaras and will have quite an impact on the program..We have 20 plus boys ready for EID and one chap has expressed interest in the lot,however he does need to lift his price a little to meet mine...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I am so sad to learn of Jenny’s condition. But I am greatly encouraged by knowing that you have help and support for your own health. Sorry that you had the flu, glad you are getting better.

2 new rams! That is exciting. And 20 boys ready to go for EID, that is a boost to the bank account.

The radio program is good for you, it keeps you engaged with others and opportunity to share your vast experience with other people.


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## Bruce

Knowing that it is progressive doesn't make it any easier to take as it happens. Thankful for the help you are getting and the activities to move your mind off of the stresses.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, can anybody advise if SHEEP  magazine is still published in the USA?..T.O.R.


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## Mini Horses

It's sold via.   www.magsstore.com

Google says published bi-monthly in Wisconsin by Countryside Publications, Ltd.

Still going??? Assume so.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

I tried their FaceBook page,but has not been active since 2014.The last issue I can find is nov/dec 2014.

As some of you will be aware I used to write for the mag,under the byline of a" view from downunder".
Everything suddenly stopped and a;; efforts to contact the editor failed,in spite of the faxct we had devoloped a relationship over the years...I was just wondering if it was still being produced?....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks , I contacted the editor of Countryside and was told that SHEEP mag is no longer produced,shame, I found it interesting on lots of levels....Still waiting for my new Rams ,the guy is unable to cross then border at this time..T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Well that explains it. I used to buy the Sheep magazine at Tractor Supply but haven’t been able to find it.

What border is your ram waiting on to cross?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

From Victoria to NSW, I am getting him to bring 4 rams,great genetics ,Poll,smoth coated ,colored and from Central Africa....T.O.r.


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## Baymule

I wish we could import sheep like that. They sound beautiful.


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## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> I wish we could import sheep like that. They sound beautiful.


I believe the US is less strict on it's import of live animals than Australia is. I bet some of the big game farms in TX have permits to be able to bring them in for you.


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## Baymule

Kusanar said:


> I believe the US is less strict on it's import of live animals than Australia is. I bet some of the big game farms in TX have permits to be able to bring them in for you.


Some countries are blocked because of foot and mouth disease. Only way to bring in new breeds from those countries is sperm for AI and a breed up program.


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## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> Some countries are blocked because of foot and mouth disease. Only way to bring in new breeds from those countries is sperm for AI and a breed up program.


Ahh, fun. I wonder if you could do embryo transfer with frozen embryos. I mean, it would be (VERY) expensive, but I would imagine it would be possible.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, there have been Awassi's imported in embro form from Australia.Once on the ground they sell for between      $2/3 000 ea in the USA..I have a friend in Southern Europe who is setting up a program to export exotic sheep breeds into the EU and the US.I will keeop you all informed as to how things are going into the future.

First radio broadcast yeterday,I was a little nervous before it began,but when the console guy pointed at me I just opened my month and the words "just fell out". I have been told it went really well and I posted some "stuff" on the stations FB page and the station manager shared it to all his friends and group....The topic for next month is P & L,or how to avoid "your farming dream from becoming a finical nightmare?"...Looking forward to some feedback on the show...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, I have a question .I have a friend in Europe who wishes to aquire super elite genetics of Katahdins.Can you suggest any breeders you would recomend?...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

@Mike CHS 

I don't know how easy it is to export to other countries/continents. And there might be a requirement to define "super elite".


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bruce,it would appear that the national breed soceity has an export arm.I have sent my friend the details...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Hi Bruce,it would appear that the national breed soceity has an export arm.I have sent my friend the details...T.O.R.


Contacting the breed association is the right place to start.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, it's been a while and as we are in "lockdown" I saw it as an oppertunity to post a note on how the farm and Jenny are going.

Jenny first: Change is occuring at such a rate now that I can hardly keep up with it and every day seems to bring a "new" challange in her care. Due to the increasing incontinance we sort advist from a specialist urology doc.She is schedled for hospitial visit on the 20th Aug so see if their is a phyisal impederment or if it is just the progression of the condition,because of her age and condition he has recommended at the same timeshe undergo a Cystospy Flexible SPC insertion ,which will involve another 3 time daily task,(oh well,it is what it is).She now doesn't understand time or where she is even in our house,I have to constantly watch her now and have her with me whenever I move inside or outside the house.Her appertite has declined to such an extent that I now have to try to get her to drink high protien Sustegan as the amount of food she is insufficient to keep her energy levels up.

Lucklerly I now have two rural support chaps who visit every week on seperate days to keep an eye on my health along with our lady from Dementia Australia and we still have the support lady who comes each week to help with household chores.I must say the NET is really my salvation .

THE FARM: Lambing is progressing apace and the "maidens" are now lambing,(some photos attached).I thank every day we made the change to the new flock as they are so self relyiant when it come to day to day management.Nicole (youngest daughter) comes each week to assist with farm stuff,this coming weekend she will stay and help with some fencing and putting in a new gateway or two as well as help cut a load of wood.As for my mental health I am much better now after a "low patch" a while ago,I can see there will be an oppertunity for some respite as we progress such is the speed now.

The second radio chat was from all reports very well received and some feedback from a local "real farmer" was interesting.Next month will see the start of Spring and the hope is to discuss the state of the Pastures going forward and look at the "open cry" auction system which will start more than one conversation I suspect.

Great Plains Regeneritive have a ZOOM each at Friday miday central time ,it is so interesting to chat with ranchers up there,but ,I have to wake up at 2.30 am to be involved, last week it was -3 when I lit the fire made a coffee an settled down to enjoy the speaker as well as the conversations afterwards.The FB group continues to grow and is a wonderful distraction from the day to day,Facebook Australian Painted Sheep is the group and we have some interesting members from across the USA and across the world.

Going forward ,I am about to head down with Jenny and make a start on a new "underground weir" to replicaite our original work and next week on a suitable day I want to do a few acs of a "cool burn" to prepare some pasture for when the weather starts to warm up.

Well ,thats about it for now,hope you enjoy the photos of the lambs (even thought they are soo small at birth,in fact we have rabbits bigger than some of them but they get away so quick)....Stay safe,T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

So very sorry for you that Jenny has gotten progressively worse.  It sounds like you are doing very well, considering, and thank God for the help and support you have.  Maybe they will turn up some of the reason for the incontinence, but I suspect that it is more due to her condition deteriorating.
It is wonderful that your daughter can help you too.  Sounds like she is a great person.

So very glad that the radio show is being well received.  It also is a great way for you to get some respite from the stress there and be able to impart your years of experiences to others.  You do need to have an "outlet" for your mind too.  
Pictures are great... they are so colorful.  The lambs aren't that small, you are just used to much bigger ones from the other breeds.... they look like they are getting up and going good... and thank goodness that you do not have to baby sit the lambings as much. 
Bet you are looking forward to spring weather...
Have you had a dry winter?  There is so much drought here... and the fires in the western states have been devastating.  And we are not getting the rain here in the mid atlantic part of the east,  either.  It is very spotty with hit and miss rain and some very hot weather.  Yet Florida and parts of Texas have had more rain than ever...  very crazy.


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## Baymule

I’m so sorry about Jenny’s condition turning for the worse. God Bless you for being the devoted, loving  man that you are. Jenny is Blessed to have you. It puts a lot of stress and strain on you, it’s good that you have the radio show and FB sheep page. It gives you contact with people who benefit greatly from your years of knowledge and gives you great enjoyment.

Your sheep are beautiful as always, I love all the colors and patterns. What a stroke of genius when you changed to hair sheep. No shearing! Less time and trouble to care for them.

 I love my hair sheep. I’ve only assisted at one birth, it was a first freshener and she was just tired. I waited for a contraction and gently pulled the front feet. Then she took over. And that’s ALL the birth assistance I’ve ever given.  They are so easy to care for.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day anfd "thank you"for your comments and good wishes.I am infact in Jenny's debt as she has "put up" with me for the over 50 years of our married life. Currently we are in"lock down" for the Covid 19 thing,the cases are creeping closer as each day goes by and we are lucky to be quite isolated and have good food stocks so we should be able to wait it out....T.O.R.


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## Bruce

I too am sorry for Jenny's decline. I'm glad you have help with her and the farm chores.


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## Finnie

I can only repeat what all the others have said. I’m sorry for the tough time you and Jenny are going through, and having help is invaluable.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,I thought an update on Jenny after her surgery was in order....She came through the initial proceedure really well. but 12 hours later she was screeming in pain,called an ambo and they they "shot" her full of morphine .It seems that this spasm occurance is not un-common when dealing with bladder problems,but "nobody " warned me and so it was quite a shock for me.Tonight (Mondfay 7 pm) she is way better and is eating some food and if I watch her closely takes in some fluids.Community Nurse came today to change her dressing and will return on Thursday to check on how she is.We have now had both our Covid 19 shots but are in lockdown until further notice.

As near as I can tell the sheep are going OK ,we are expecting some pretty bad weather in the next day or so but both groups have access to woodland cover for the worst of it....T.O.R.


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## rachels.haven

Good luck with the weather.


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## farmerjan

Thoughts and prayers for her continued recovery and less pain from the surgery.  Hope the weather does not hit you too bad.  My sister and brother have gotten alot of rain from a storm that hit up in Conn,/RI/Mass over the weekend. Wind and all.  None of them have animals to deal with, but hurricane weather is no fun.


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## Finnie

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day folks,I thought an update on Jenny after her surgery was in order....She came through the initial proceedure really well. but 12 hours later she was screeming in pain,called an ambo and they they "shot" her full of morphine .It seems that this spasm occurance is not un-common when dealing with bladder problems,but "nobody " warned me and so it was quite a shock for me.Tonight (Mondfay 7 pm) she is way better and is eating some food and if I watch her closely takes in some fluids.Community Nurse came today to change her dressing and will return on Thursday to check on how she is.We have now had both our Covid 19 shots but are in lockdown until further notice.
> 
> As near as I can tell the sheep are going OK ,we are expecting some pretty bad weather in the next day or so but both groups have access to woodland cover for the worst of it....T.O.R.


If they knew it could happen, they should have prepared you for how to deal with it so she could have gotten relief sooner. I hope this week goes well for you both.


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## Bruce

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> It seems that this spasm occurance is not un-common when dealing with bladder problems,but "nobody " warned me and so it was quite a shock for me.


That is pretty inexcusable. You should have as much information as possible. It would be different if she were in the hospital with people who knew what to expect and could deal with it immediately

 she improves quickly


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bruce,what I find is that medical people take lots of stuff for granted.The fact that the two ambulance girls were unaware of the cause indicaites to me that because it's a specialist area of medicine that knowledge filters out quite slowly and the current situation with the Covid-19 sweeping the country means that everbody is focused on that .


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## Mike CHS

You and Jenny have been in our prayers for a long time.  I'm still hoping that you are taking care of yourself so you can do what you need for her.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you mike,my support people tell me I am doing OK ,but there have been a few "dark moments" in recent times but I reqognise the signs now and contact one of several folks for some help and reassurance,because there are moments when i doubt my own capabilitys in respect of Jennys care.The NET and the sheep are my "break" from the normal day to day of caring and without it I could be in trouble because of the lack of respite due to her "seperation anxiety"....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

You are providing some very intensive 24-7 care for Jenny. I am glad you have a good support system to help you. Prayers for you and Jenny.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you Bay,this morning Jenny has moved on in her journey and does not now know who I am...T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

So sorry for you.... she may have some moments that she knows.... just hold her in your heart and the many many good years you had.  And this may make it a little easier for you to have a respite when you need it.  Prayers from Va for you and her both.


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## Mini Horses

Jenny may well have days of knowing, or not.  It comes and goes.  She may identify you as another person, at times.  While it's dreadfully sad, know that she cannot control this and if she also talks of things that are imagination, just let her.  It is their world at the moment.   My Mother sometimes told me of visitors and outings -- only in her mind did they happen.  I'd smile and ask if she had a nice visit.  You can do little else.  I pray you both stay safe.


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## Bruce

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> .... but there have been a few "dark moments" in recent times but I reqognise the signs now and contact one of several folks for some help and reassurance,because there are moments when i doubt my own capabilitys in respect of Jennys care.


That is bound to happen and I'm glad you have the support you need. 



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Thank you Bay,this morning Jenny has moved on in her journey and does not now know who I am...T.O.R.


That has to be very painful for you. Every day is a new one for her, you're doing well if you can just make each one happy for her even though she won't remember it.

Many  for you, Jenny and your daughter


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## rachels.haven

I'm so sorry. You're pretty far beyond physical any physical support we could offer, but  You'll be in our prayers tonight and everyone of your friends' thoughts here on backyard herds.


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## Baymule

I read that with a sinking heart. You are one awesome, devoted husband and a very good man. Jenny is in good hands with the man who loves her. 

I am so sorry that she has gone further away.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Good news this morning,she seems really good and I have returned,but she still fears that I have left home if I am out of sight for even the smallest time...T.O.R.


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## Finnie

That’s what makes it tough, because you want to be there to reassure her, but you just have to have alone time sometimes.

How does she do with the helpers? When my mother was caring for my grandmother, who didn’t know her and wanted her gone, my grandmother was very difficult to my mother. But she liked the health care workers that came, and she would be cheerful and well behaved for them. That was a huge respite for my mother.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thanks Finnie,my problem is exalty the opposite. I have to leave the toilet door open so see can see I have not left...T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,today's post  is a change from what has become the norm for me.

This lamb is by far the "prettyist"we have had from the maidens (av age about 15 months).

The other is my first attempt at a real cake baked in our fuel stove.Should get some more cooking done in the next day or so as the weather turns a bit sour.As I write this I notice that one of the boys is showing quite a bit of interest in a few of the girls,could be a new batch of baby's end of Jan?....T.O.R


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## Bruce

Excellent job on the cake! Did Jenny like it?


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## farmerjan

Cake looks great.  Hope that sharing it with Jenny was a positive moment for you.  
Pretty Lamb!!!!!!


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## Finnie

The ewe and the lamb are both pretty, and that cake sure looks yummy!


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## Baymule

I love your spotty sheep. The lamb is so pretty and so is the momma.  Why not have some eye candy? LOL

Good work on the cake. You are becoming quite the baker!


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## Ridgetop

I found your thread!  I have not been getting any notices on my emails even you are on my "watch" list.  I have been thinking about you and hoping things were going well.  This complete lockdown in Australia and New Zealand is very difficult for you.  Are you able to get any caregivers at all to help you under the lockdown conditions?

So sorry to see that Jenny is declining in her mental faculties.  It is so hard on those around her.  My MIL was the same with my FIL - he couldn't even go to the bathroom without her getting very upset when he was out of view.


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## Mini Horses

Another here who loves the picture perfect mom and babe!!

Your baking skills have expanded....next thing ya know you'll be doing decorating too!  Not much better than a good chocolate cake.  Looks to be a moist one, too.  Yum!!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thanks guys, for me the fact I have to be in view all of the time is by far the hardest thing of all.The other thing is that I have to explain what seems like a 100 times a day is what the tube in her tummy is all about,last night she was awake asking me and crying for about 3 hours.This morning I am exhausted and still the questions come about it.We have a support program where a lady comes from the hospital on Tuesday morning and cleans the house and provides a level of social support,I have a mental health support worker who comes once a week and more if I ask.Our daughter is coming every week now to  stay one night and give me a break....The NET is the only respite I have and you folks are being so supportive,it means so much to me in these times of stress and worry.

Decorating cakes,"I dont think so"! but I have found the best frosting ever.Because it is winter i am cooking most of our meals on and in the wood stove which is a skill I seem to get better at each day,so far I have not had to give a meal which turned out "bad"to the dogs or chooks.Currently i am learning all about using the Iron for some things after the washing is all dry.Thanks again to all of you .T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Cooking with a wood stove is an art!!! I screw up enough with an electric wall oven.

Your spring is just 16 days away 

Ironing? Yeah, we don't do that. I think the only thing that got ironed, back when we were skiing, was the wax on the bottom of the skis. My grandmother used to iron the sheets. Never could figure that one out, soon as you sleep on them 1 minute they are wrinkled again and stay that way until they are washed and ironed again.


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## farmerjan

Bless you for all the patience you are finding to deal with the situation.   I like to iron.  Yes, considered a little bit  "crazy" for that but I like to see a nice neat "finished" shirt.  I like the button placket down the front to be neat as well as the pockets, collars, and cuffs.  This from someone who really does not like most housework.  Never did sheets or underwear.... I like my clothes out on the clothesline, but especially the sheets and towels and airing out the blankets on the clothesline regularly. 

Cooking on a wood stove definitely takes some skill and finesse.  

Rely on us whenever you need to, if for nothing else but just a place to "vent" when you are feeling overwhelmed.


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## Ridgetop

I like ironing too.  Plenty of time to think or watch TV while doing a useful chore.  I always ironed y clothes when I was pregnant.  For some reason it made me feel better about the huge bulge and my waddle.    I also like ironing linens.  They come up so crisp and pretty.  

With the advent of "natural fabrics" everything was cotton which wrinkles badly.  Al DH's sport shirts need ironing.  I save then up and do a large ironing at ne time.  Mainly he wears them on cruises and we have not cruised for 18 months now!


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## Baymule

My great grandmother ironed bed sheets too. I don't iron anything. I gave my husband warning and told him up front that I would wash, dry, fold or hang his clothes, but NO ironing. So if he wants something ironed, he does it himself. After all, he used to before we were married, so it's not like he doesn't know how.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks ,I hope this post finds you all well? Well ,on our place it is supposed to be spring, but it is barely 10c at the minute and the fire has been going for 3 days now,

There are two pressing tasks at the minute upgrading some fences and attending to weeds. We have a small group of ewes who are very nice sheep ,but they challenge fences at every opportunity .They seem capable of "smelling" a weak point in any fence (lol). They even conquered a fence of our neighbors made with 7 strands of hi-tensile barbed wire built by a "professional fencer", another job on the list add 3 more strands of plain to 900 mts of boundary .

Lambing continues with one of the groups who cycled late along with some of the maidens (they are about 16 months old), they are lambing naturally without assistance up in the bush.

Tina's two pups are now 4 weeks old and have started to "lap" milk when offered to them. They are both boys and by Max (my older male) and will I am sure turn out to be great "mates" as well as workers.

Lockdown at our place ,I guess you could do worse?

Jenny's condition continues to progress and next time I will post a complete update......T.O.R


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## Baymule

Lockdown. Looks like y'all are on vacation. LOL Nice place to be on lockdown. Those pups are so cute!


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## Bruce

Your "wine" picture is great! Super composition.

I see that they sell Corningware in Oz too.


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## farmerjan

Cute pups, and @Bruce is right, super composition on the "wine " picture.... 
Have read that things are really under lockdown there.... 
Spring will come.... one of these days.... 
So glad that the lambing is going well.  That really helps.  
Is your daughter still coming out to help with Jenny?  I know that it has to be hard on you.  

Are you still doing the radio program?  
Glad to see your posts...


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## Ridgetop

The scenery view in the wine picture is lovely.  Those rolling hills remind me of California.  I hope the weather has gotten better.

I hope you and Jenny are doing ok.  I know her condition will continue to deteriorate.  I am so sorry for you having to go through this.  I think it is worse for the caregiver at this point since she no longer knows who you are.  Although feeling ost in a strange life must be horrible for her.  Hugs to you both.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day from Downunder ,hope you folks are all well and coping with your various degrees of "lockdown"?

Thought it was time for some "lamb spam" ,hope you all enjoy...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I love your spotty sheep!


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## Mini Horses

I'm with Bay -- eye candy!   But I also appreciate that fence in last pic!  😁


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## Bruce

I'm not a big fan of canned spam
nor email spam 
but LAMB spam is great! Thanks!!

I hope all is going as well as it can be for you and Jenny.


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## Ridgetop

Do you have a lot of trouble with dingoes as predators?  Here we have coyotes.  England has foxes which are about the size of our smaller coyotes.  Do you keep guardian dogs in Australia against predators?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day and "thank you" everyone for your comments....Mini, that fence can be the basis of a valuable deterrent for escapees and intruders as well. It's plain wire (I use medium tensile gal wire for ease of handling and tying off),erecting is time consuming because you have to thread every wire through the holes .I assume that your steel post are hole stamped the same as ours. The closeness of the bottom holes is such that only "mice " can come through and the tension is such that it is quite difficult for anything to "dig under". A tension gauge on your strainers is a "must"(IMO) and I use a tension of 150 kgs a running meter as a guide. I do think it would be possible to run 1 or 2 "hot wires" above this point to deter "climbers". When straining wires I tie off the ends first and and strain to the middle, this means you do not lose and tension at the end points and the tension is maintained over the whole distance .On undulating ground you will have to "tie down" some steels. I have used this system on strains of up to 300 meters.

Dingo's are not a problem for us this close in ,but out west on large runs 10,000 acs and more they are now using close woven mesh 6 ft high with an apron on the ground to deter 'diggers". The English Fox is our worst one and yes some folks are using LGD's and Al Alpacas, in fact we bred the Italian Maremma's in the 80's when we had the goats.

Thank you Bruce, things with jenny continue to progress at an increasing rate and the correlation between my name and me is all but gone now. In the main increasingly Jen's care is all consuming and there are days when the time for a Bourbon or two can not come "quick" enough (lol)...T.O.R.


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## Ridgetop

Hugs to you both.  It is harder for you to go through this than poor Jenny.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks ,the other pup is now ready for a new home. Along with the photos of him I thought a pic of his father and granddad .His dad is shown supporting a pup on the first time he was asked to control a mob ,note the ram who turned back on the pup ,but he held his ground. His grandad was a wonderful dog and produced many good working dogs over his lifetime.


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## Baymule

That is one nice puppy. He's got it all, doesn't he!


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## Ridgetop

What breed is he?


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## Bruce

Nice pup TOR.

I thank you (well, probably not YOU but one of your country's other sheep ranchers) for my dinner last night


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thanks everybody .Ridge, he is an Australian Working Kelpie ,not to be confused with the Kelpies you see at dog shows ,IMO, they don't have a "working bone" in their body's.....He does have a small % of Border Collie and a cut of Dingo. He is just 7 weeks old, already he knows where he gets dinner ,he see the container his food comes in and heads straight for his feeding spot. In a day or two he will learn to "sit" until I put his dish down .T.O.R.


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## Ridgetop

I wondered since he didn't look like a Border Collie at all.  He has a Kelpie look but had not seen any working dogs that solid chocolate brown color.  He is certainly handsome.  Are Dingos reliably domesticated?  I thought they were like African wild dogs.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thanks Ridge, there was a time when "old doggers" would tie a seasoning bitch out in the bush when Dingo's were known to frequent. This infusion produced a dog able to work longer/harder than some lines. The wild Dingo is a serious hunter and able to ambush prey these skills in a diluted form produce a highly intelligent worker with the skill of predicting which way sheep will respond the presence of the dogs and farmer.


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## Ridgetop

Interesting how human breeding their animals for specific attributes is used to produce a better working animal throughout the centuries.   I have read in many books that years go in Alaska the native Aleuts used to tie a bitch in season out near a wolf pack in the hopes that a young adult male would be drawn to her and breed her.  In wolf packs only the alpha male and female are allowed to produce pups.  That pair remains together for life.  However, a normal pack will consist of many members, who are younger sibs of the alpha pair, or mature offspring of the alpha pair.  These additional members are necessary to the hunting abilities of a functioning wolf pack as well as serving turns "babysitting" the pups while the other pack members are out hunting.  Since the juvenile males are not allowed to breed in the pack they often will sneak off for a "forbidden" tryst with a member of another pack, or with a bitch. 

Those half wolf pups were supposedly prized as being smarter and used as sled team leaders.  Might not happen as much any more with the use of snowmobiles.  LOL.


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## Bruce

You don't think there are wild packs of snow machines out there trying to keep their species alive?


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## Ridgetop

Are those the endangered ones that are being relocated by the government into breeding groups?


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## Bruce

Yes, they are running out of snow so they have to be moved to colder areas.


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## Ridgetop




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## Baymule

@Bruce your humor is appreciated. I needed that laugh!


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## Bruce

Don't tell DD2, she says I have no sense of humor.


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## Ridgetop

??? No sense of humor?  She doesn't appreciate your twisted BYH humor that's all!  Keep ot up!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, I thought I would take this opportunity to post some pic's and update how things are going for those not on Face Book.

As I write this we are awaiting another storm to arrive, the rain over the last few months has been unrivalled in any other period we have owned the farm .On the upside we have never had this much pasture either ,and the sheep and lambs are looking a "treat" .Due to the nature of the new flock we can and are lambing at any time of the year .For some this would be a real issue but for me the time I now spend caring for Jenny is all consuming with little time to attend to the flock, which is OK as they tend to look after themselves anyway. The new program of little or no intervention is starting to pay off within the flock as they are so much stronger with regard to worms and other common and not so common diseases.

I have included some pics of our current pastures which have now almost returned to a totally natural system of a diverse species structure. Standing dry feed is left and it protects the pasture close to the ground from hot and cold weather events and it also controls the speed of moisture movement across the landscape.

The latest "drop" of lambs is showing that we are well on the way to achieving our preferred outcome of "no horns ,no wool and no natural tails." ,De-sexing is also a thing of the past as our target market customer prefers males to be "whole" as they are in their country of birth.

Jenny's condition continues down the eventual path, she frequently "regresses to her late teens and the times when our children were teens themselves". In spite of the fact we have been in this house for over 15 years she refuses to believe that this is her home and often demands to be taken home or when are we going home.

The radio program seems to be going from strength to strength and it has been requested that I increase the time to 1 hour and broadcast fortnightly and eventually weekly. The Face Book group is now over 1300 members, with female sheep people still over 70% of the total membership.

I have also been approached to be featured on a on-line platform for the leading Farmer organization in our state regarding our farm and flock and the way we approach our farming business. That will be interesting and we shall see how it all turns out.

I hope you all are able to enjoy the holiday break in spite of the ongoing threat of the Covid virus and I wish you all well in the coming year with your farming enterprise...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Frank, my heart breaks for you and your beloved Jenny. What a relief that the sheep can care for themselves while you care for your dear Jenny. You are the BEST husband. 

You might set a new standard for Australia. If not the country, certainly for your state and area. Your lifetime of experience and the switch to hair sheep, your success in holding rainfall on your pastures, is something others can pattern themselves and their lands after. 

Your whole message is to work with the land, not against it.


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## Ridgetop

Jenny's disease is heartbreaking.  Having made the switch to the new type of sheep farming you are doing has paid big dividends.  It has given you the time you need to care for your darling Jenny while being able to continue your sheep ranching.  Adjusting your sheep production to the sale market as you have done should be the goal of every producer.

I have gaps in my receipt of your postings - what radio program are you doing?  I missed something there!

Your land looks great as do the sheep.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, and "thank you "for your kind words. As for changing the livestock are farmed in Australia, I guess I may be able to convert a few ,but the majority are caught in the "clutches" of Big Ag and the Banks and to change seems un-achievable. The biggest challenge as with most things is the farmers "thinking" and the fact that a change of this scale means a drop in production in the first years as the land and the stock adapt to what is a "dramatic " change in the way the farm works, but once overcoming these hurdles there is no going back.

Ridge: The radio program is streamed "live" on the NET on Braidwood FM 88.9.Its on the first Tuesday at 10 am Australian Eastern Daylight Saving Time. The aim of the program is to assist "escapees" from suburbia to a rural lifestyle. I try to cover local conditions as well as things that impact Australia in regard to Agriculture.

I also post on Australian Painted Sheep (FaceBook).The have reproduced the latest edition for you to read and if you with I can post it each week going forward?
SUNDAY CHAT:10/12/2021.
Hi group and welcome to what will be our last “chat “for the year. On the menu this week, around the farm, the new FTA with Britain, pasture news, new lamb ,we seem to be “on-track” with the program and The Boys Baking Club. You had better put the kettle on for this one.
After the last few years jenny and I seem to be in a good place, her condition is “stable” (most of the time, lol). The farm looks terrific, the sheep are well and a break in the rain means that we are being set up for a tremendous start to the coming year.
I was chatting to a local lady this week and she said,” our family has been farming in the district for 70 years ,and this is the best season ever” .It’s my view, that “now”, is the time to start planning for the eventual change in the rain and weather conditions, as you will read and see later our pastures are geared to whatever nature is going to send us.
As an aside, I had a chat to our GP (doctor) this week about Jenny and our plans going forward and as we left, I asked,” What does your Jenny think of the eggs?” (I often drop her in a dozen when we have extra). His reply was the following, ”I always know when we are having your eggs, what is the difference from “shop eggs”? I replied, “chickens are chickens, it’s the way we feed them that makes the difference, they are not “free range” because of the foxes, but their feed is completely balanced and reflects the way they would get nutrition in the wild”.
The meadow around the house (I would not “dare” to call it lawn, (lol) is growing at apace now with the warm days and so I have let another ewe and lamb group in to take advantage of the diversity of plants, seeds and flowers. Today (Sat) it is really quite warm, with a warm wind to boot. The sheep have grazed all morning and are now “laying up” in the shade of some English Hawthorns the leaves of which are a favorite food, (although those who think only Natives should be encouraged, disapprove!). If our farm was on land which had suffered under the old 1 bag of Sper per year (we only have a small section like that and it refuses to grow Euc’s or any Native species) I would plant a forest of trees from the Northern Hemisphere, instead on our place we have a mostly Native Grassland with a Native Woodland nearby.
The govt was this week “crowing” about a new Free Trade Agreement with Britain but, when you read the “fine print”, it will be 15 years before we get non- tariff entry of Agricultural products like Beef and lamb. Funny the minster did not mention that?
Pasture News, I have included a number of photos showing the present state of some of our Grasslands including the fact that Native Sorghum is now flowering ,as is Microleanna, Kangaroo Grass seed is now starting to mature .Our Clovers continue to be “protected” by the standing drying pasture which mostly holds the wind off of it to stall the “drying” effect. Native Sorghum, clumping type,brown flowers with what looks like an upside down skirt at the first node. We started with just 2 plants found by a Botanist it has now spread over almost 200acs. Our Microleanna thrives in our restored woodlands as per the photos. I have included several photos of our now seeding Kangaroo Grass, as an aside my neighbor (a real farmer, lol) remarked to me in the mid-winter that I should burn off this whole paddock to produce more grass. ” How much more grass do I need”? I added a photo of a developing Euc Viminarlis woodland, the stand is about 8 years old and is undergoing "natural thinning".
The new lamb shown is exactly the type we want in the future, no wool, no horns and a great “fat tail”. I expect that the next generation will contain a much larger % of this type. The other lamb ,(they are both Rams) is a few months old now are quite “tight” in their conformation and so I think I will use a Aussie White X WH dorper X Wilitipol to generate extra length in the finished ewe Composite.
The Boys Baking Club. This week did a new batch of fruit buns, putting the Cinnamomum Vanilla Sugar in the dry mix, I think you will agree they look much better this time? As I write I have a Crusty White, proving, and will bake it in a “clay pot”. I will post a photo when it is baked.
So, all that remains is to wish all the group, the very best in Health, Happiness and a Productive Flock for the coming year whenever your calendar begins. This last year has been so “rewarding” for me as Admin because you are such a “wonderful” group of sheep people.
P.S. In breaking news it seems that the farm is going to be featured in a publication in Jan .I will be sure to let you all know when it occurs.
Frank and Jenny Egan, Braidwood N.S.W. Australia.


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## Ridgetop

Wow!  It looks like you are spreading your experience to lots of people.  Hopefully they will take advantage of it.  Improving pasture the natural way is the best way to ensure that it will be able to raise livestock during both "good" years and "bad" years.  Nature is not static, and those who depend on nature for farming and ranching need to learn how to keep our pastures and farmlands fertile and productive.


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## Bruce

Other than Jenny's "stable" condition, that is all excellent news TOR! It is amazing you have the strength and stamina to deal with it all.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

This came in my feed. Thought you might all enjoy.
You might be a farmer…
• If your dog spends more time each week riding in your Ute than your partner does.
You might be a farmer
• If you’ve ever had to wash off your boots in the back yard with a garden hose, or strip down to your jocks in the carport before entering the house because of mud, manure or both.
You might be a farmer
• If you’ve ever used baling twine or wire to attach a license plate, patch a fence, or to tie square-baled hay to the roof of your car.
You might be a farmer
• If you can remember the fertiliser rate, seed population, herbicide rate, and yields from farms you have leased the past three years, but cannot recall your wedding anniversary.
You might be a farmer
• If you’ve driven off the road while rubber-necking at your neighbours crops or cattle.
You might be a farmer
• If you have ever used duct-tape, hanky or old piece of rag as a bandage for bleeding hands from barbed wire fence repairs.
You might be a farmer
• If you refer to land using the names of the farmers who owned them a generation ago.
You might be a farmer
• If the equipment in your shed is 10 times more valuable than what is parked in your garage.
You might be a farmer
• If buying new clothes and boots means your town clothes can now be used for work.
You might be a farmer
• If your family becomes instantly silent when the weather comes on the news each night.
You might be a farmer
• If family picnics are most commonly shared on the tailgate of a Ute during sowing or harvest season.
You might be a farmer
• If using an elevator relates to grain harvest rather than in a tall city building.
You might be a farmer
• If regular social conversation with your closest friends at the local involves rainfall, equipment repairs, hybrids, or herbicides.
You might be a farmer
• If spending time alone with your partner in the evening means they are holding the flashlight while you fix something.
You might be a farmer
• And finally, if you won $1,000,000 from the lottery your life would not change that much. You’d keep right on farming, maybe with newer equipment and more land, but you’d keep farming because that is who you are and what you do.
You might be a farmer…






 @sally_pittman
T.O.R.............................


----------



## Baymule

Oh yeah, I like that!


----------



## Bruce

I identify with several of those but


The Old Ram-Australia said:


> You might be a farmer
> • If buying new clothes and boots means your town clothes can now be used for work.


 I'm a farmer!!!! 

OK, I'm not REALLY a farmer. I have a little land, 2 alpacas and 25 chickens. No plans to try to make money "farming".


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Bruce said:


> No plans to try to make money "farming".


Farmers make money?  Dang, I've been doing it wrong for a very long time!


----------



## Bruce

I didn't say MAKE money, I said TRY to make money


----------



## farmerjan

Thank you @The Old Ram-Australia  (T.O.R).... I can well relate to that.  There is an old radio program here that Paul Harvey used to have.... and he always would come back later with "the rest of the story".... but one day he did a tribute to a farmer and it was so well said... "So God made a Farmer".   I am sure you can find it on the internet... I believe he first came up with it at a Farmer convention like Farm Bureau or FFA or somewhere.... Back in the 70's or 80's.   Kind of in the same vein but it was not quite as much of a funny twist (satire) as a real tribute.  Still, your post made me think of it and how true both what your post said and what Paul Harvey said all those years ago...  It was still fun to read your post.   It made me smile and I outright laughed at the using baling twine or wire..... the referring to places by the previous farmer/owner and the spending time alone in the dark with a spouse (or in my case with my son) , holding a light while we repair a piece of equipment or patch a fence..... We refer to nearly all our rented places by the owners' or previous owners from a couple generations ago... it's always the Bartley place or Doug's farm or something....


----------



## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, imagine my "surprise" when this item appeared in a platform of NSW Farmers.

Introducing our very first FarmFeed *Member Spotlight!
*
Each month we will profile a different member, asking them questions about their professional and personal life.

*Meet @FRANK EGAN*





*Occupation*: Almost retired Sheep Farmer.

Our journey started almost 50 years ago when we sold up in the suburbs and with three pre-teens in-tow we moved to our first of several farms. Currently we occupy 500 acres of which 200 acres was completely destroyed in the fires.

*Career Highlights:*
I regard our most outstanding achievement as the complete restoration of our 300 acres Sheep block. It has taken us 13 years to achieve but the results have been described as "outstanding" by all but academics and agencies like LLs and the like, who seem unable to comprehend the "concepts" involved.

Frank has been kind enough to share his presentation, which was developed by a faculty at a U.S. University, which follows the restoration of the headwaters of a local creek ,which empties into the Shoalhaven River which forms part of the Sydney water supply.

The development of our Face Book page "Australian Painted Sheep", which in a little over 2 years has a worldwide membership of 1300 folks on all continents and is made up mainly of females (about 80%) who drive most of the posts that appear.

I have in recent times hosted and presented a radio broadcast directed at in the main, "escapees from the suburbs" who have moved to the district in recent times.

*Career Advice:* My advice "Make the livestock fit the landscape ,not the landscape fit the livestock".

*Favourite way to unplug from work?* Connecting with farmers ,mainly in the USA via ZOOM, even though it means rising in the middle of the night in most cases.

*If you could ask other members in the room one question, what would it be?* What do you consider more important ,"increasing you're out put ,or reducing your cost of production"?


Thank you for being our first #MemberSpotlight Frank!

Please feel free to jump in and ask Frank any questions and don't forget to answer Franks question -> _What do you consider more important ,"increasing you're out put ,or reducing your cost of production"?

More news to follow ,with the arrival of 2 new boys for the flock program.I will post story and photo's later..T.O.R._


----------



## Legamin

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day to you all.After almost 20 years breeding our line of Suffolk’s we will over the next 12 months sell almost all of the flock and transition to a composite Hair flock. Starting from “scratch “by  purchasing small lines of ewes and suitable rams along with some genes of our Suffolk’s we will begin to breed up a suitable type of slaughter lamb which has the ease of production (i.e. no shearing or crutching)but with the eating qualities of the English Shortwools.
> 
> I guess some of you are Hair Sheep Breeders, have you found any adverse comment about the “denseness “of the meat or a taste they dislike? Down here the supermarkets present the two types quite differently, but perhaps you all have taken the trouble to target them properly?
> 
> I have observed some “consumer pushback” to the eating qualities of the Hair or Tribal breeds and the prices at the saleyards “reflect this”, but if we apply the production methods we use with the Suffolk’s the lower prices we receive for breeding females and production rams will be off- set by the reduced workload and we will be able to continue to farm sheep for a number of years into the future.( I'm now 75)
> 
> Buying in the sale yard is a “risky” business” as in the main the stock has some sort of “fault” but with careful breeding these initial problems will be overcome, buying in the private market results in mainly small lines (maybe even just one or two ewes at an exorbitant price)for which you have to travel for hours to look at. Our regional sale is a 200 km round trip but there are times when you will be able to purchase some very good lines as an average sale is over 6000 head on a weekly basis(small I know by the numbers some sales attract), you just have to turn up each week and because we wish to start with about 100 ewes with as big a genetic pool as possible it seems the way to go.
> 
> The introduction of the Australian White is such a breed, but the path they took seems to be a “well kept secret”, although I did miss out on a “run” of their young ewes recently because I did not “have my wits about me” and realized too late what they were.
> 
> So this week we purchased our first ewes, they were within budget and all looked to be “in-lamb” (14 in all). They are a mixed lot of BH and White Headed Dorpers; some are pretty “scruffy” and need to be cleaned up. I don’t think the traditional method of sheep shearing is  the way to go as on the first side you are shearing against the way the hair lays, so I think I will try a shear down  method like the way you finish on the second side in normal shearing. If you clear around the tail and up to the “pin”, then start at the “poll” and go down the neck across the shoulder and finish the “first side” turn the sheep over and do the second side as normal will result in a “cleaner “ looking job.
> 
> I would be interested in any of “your” experiences in this type of breeding; I will resist the use of Poll Dorset’s but may try a Texel, Wiltipoll, White Suffolk or even a Border Leicester, but I fear it may put too much “leg” under the lambs.....T.O.R.View attachment 37754


You are right about the Leicester breed putting leg under the lamb.  I breed, as part conservancy of the species and part meat flock, the Leicester Longwool…of course the .35-.5 meter of wool per year is part of the point of this breed.  When you lengthen the leg it takes more food and this breed, as well as the BFL and some lines of the Border Leicester are HUGE consumers.  Where I live I get deep grass early and need to put the flock out on it while mowing some of the pasture just to keep up with the growth.  I can run 10 sheep per acre and bring them back on full lush thick 12” growth in just 3 weeks.  keeping up with the pasture is my main concern.  If you are in an area where it is a bit sparser, fast growth, carcass weight and short cycles are super important.  The Leicester needs about 18 months to fully mature in the ewe if you want to breed multiples.  For some reason if they are bred too early they mostly give one lamb year after year…not good production if you’re going for meat flock.  i don’t have your experience but after 5 years with the Leicester Longwool and BFL I do understand this breed.  My goal was bigger sheep, longer leg 240-380lbs of meat on the LL/BFL Mule meat sheep carcass at 9 months…which is when my meat lamb is ready for market.  I do the grass fed, no antibiotics etc. etc. all natural and keep two flocks..one for general market and one for custom order which mainly goes to high end restaurant and private buyers.  From the picture of your pasture it seems your goal is more of the fast cycle compact meaty breed with short leg but good carcass meat/weight ratio.  I’m getting about 50/50 on my sheep.  I’d like to do better but I can’t grain finish with the organic customers.


----------



## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi, as promised ,here are the new rams .I have also just placed an order for 4 Poll Meatmaster rams which will arrive in a week or so


----------



## Bruce

You are even more famous now TOR!!!!


----------



## Cecilia's-herd

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> You might be a farmer
> • If you refer to land using the names of the farmers who owned them a generation ago.





The Old Ram-Australia said:


> You might be a farmer
> • And finally, if you won $1,000,000 from the lottery your life would not change that much. You’d keep right on farming, maybe with newer equipment and more land, but you’d keep farming because that is who you are and what yo


These were the two that brought me to tears. Blame it on the hormones but


----------



## Baymule

That is a nice article Frank. Good picture of you and your lovely Jenny.


----------



## farmerjan

Really enjoyed the article and very nice photo of you and Jenny.  My admiration for your contributing to the overall good of farming in general and the sheep in particular with your healthy practices.

The pictures of the new rams are very similar to the type heads we have on our white Texas Dall sheep.  Those nice horns are the ones  that we have to measure and the hunting preserves pay good money for the ones that reach certain "scores".  It is hard to keep a good head intact as the rams get into the "rutting season" in the fall and have to go head to head.....


----------



## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> The pictures of the new rams are very similar to the type heads we have on our white Texas Dall sheep.  Those nice horns are the ones  that we have to measure and the hunting preserves pay good money for the ones that reach certain "scores".  It is hard to keep a good head intact as the rams get into the "rutting season" in the fall and have to go head to head.....


Do y'all have any big horn sales in your area?






						Big Horn Sale – Hamilton Commission Company
					






					www.hamiltoncommissioncompany.com
				




I've been wanting just to attend one of these sales, but since I'm in the middle of moving and it is 4 hours away, don't think so this time. Texas Dahl seem to do good at this sale. What size horns do y'all sell to the hunting clubs?


----------



## Ridgetop

Bruce said:


> No plans to try to make money "farming".


Is there such a thing?


----------



## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Ridge, there are two factors that assist a profit from your farm, market selection and cost of production.

We even at our scale cannot compete with the "big runs" with over a 1000 breeder units, so we don't even try. We selected and researched a market that others did now know or care about with the result as time goes by customers will hear about and search us out, why? Because we will sell a product which reflects the sheep from their homeland with the "taste " to match....T.O.R.


----------



## Bruce

Ridgetop said:


> Is there such a thing?


I understand it is possible to end up with a million dollars farming
.
.
.
.
If you start with two million.


----------



## Ridgetop




----------



## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks ,in an interesting move this week a successful Merino sheep stud is selling all their merino wool sheep of  10.000 breeders and going into Meat goats .They have "exclusion fenced" 140,000 acs to get rid of Pigs ,dingo's ,foxes and any other non productive species .If you search "exclusion fencing in Australia" ,I am sure you will get some idea of the cost of this exercise. Their long tern aim is 20,000 breeding goats on the farm. The COP is a fraction of the sheep operation with an almost 80% increase in "turnoff" . The rationale behind the move is that wool production is no longer profitable on the landscape they own. Makes you think doesn't it ?..T.O.R.


----------



## Baymule

Exclusion fencing. Haven’t looked it up yet, but I bet it’s the same as high wire fencing or game fencing, in Texas. It keeps all the exotic animals IN and coyotes and hogs, etc. OUT. Game fencing is priced by the mile, it ain’t cheap! 

10,000 breeders. I can’t even begin to comprehend. Shearing 10,000 sheep! Boggles the mind. 

YOU saw the writing on the wall and are way ahead of the game. When I decided on sheep, I studied hair versus wool and hair sheep won.


----------



## Bruce

140,000 acres! Don't even need to translate that from English/Australian to American 
That is a LOT of land!!!! 

Huge change for them going from wool sheep to meat goats. Going to be some learning to do.


----------



## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Bay, I was 


Baymule said:


> Exclusion fencing. Haven’t looked it up yet, but I bet it’s the same as high wire fencing or game fencing, in Texas. It keeps all the exotic animals IN and coyotes and hogs, etc. OUT. Game fencing is priced by the mile, it ain’t cheap!
> 
> 10,000 breeders. I can’t even begin to comprehend. Shearing 10,000 sheep! Boggles the mind.
> 
> YOU saw the writing on the wall and are way ahead of the game. When I decided on sheep, I studied hair versus wool and hair sheep won.


thinking about that fence last night So I re-visited the item again this morning and yes ,it surround's a farm of 140.000 acs..I saw this type of fencing a number of years ago and it was $10.00 a foot. .T.O.R.


----------



## Ridgetop

High tensile woven wire 7' high is what we are pricing for our new place in Texas.  Game fencing.  In our case we are fencing it like that to keep our LGDs in since the ranch is o a highway.  Originally going to do the entire 45 acres but now re considering starting with just 14 acres including the house and barn then adding ore perimeter fencing later.



Bruce said:


> Huge change for them going from wool sheep to meat goats. Going to be some learning to do.



Actually, switching from wool sheep to meat goats will not be a big learning curve since with that much acreage they are on pasture, and they are similar to sheep in husbandry.  And they will be saving on shearing costs.  There is minimal return these days in wool prices.  Even though I understand that Australia pays extra payments per head to wool raisers.  Also depending on the type of wool, many raisers are under government contract.  That may have changed in the past years.

Switching to meat goats, particularly if they switch to Boers and breed for 3 kiddings in 2 years, can raise their production by an average of 1 additional kid per year.  Boers are bred to be more disease resistant in hot dry climates.  Goat prices are higher than lamb in ethnic markets.  When you figure 10,000 breeding animals the addition of 1 additional kid per breeding doe per ewe is huge, even if you drop it to 75% of the does producing the extra kid.


----------



## Bruce

But don't goats need copper? Seems just the requirement to dose "x" number of goats would be lot more work than sheep.



The Old Ram-Australia said:


> 10.00 a foot.


 

I cannot even imagine enough money to fence 140,000 acres at $10 a foot. By my calculation that is an perimeter of 313,000 linear feet or $3.13 Million! How is that even minimally affordable on an ROI basis?


----------



## Ridgetop

Yes, goats need more copper than sheep.  However, copper is in the soil and depending on the soil mineral level you should have enough in your forage.  If your soil is copper deficient, you will need to supplement with copper.  Some areas of the country have more copper than others.  You need to know the mineral levels of the areas your hay and forage are grown. Supplementing with copper is easier than making sure sheep don't get too much.  You can use loose minerals or mineral blocks that have copper in them.  We used to use cattle grain for our dairy milkers.  Got can eat sheep and cattle feed, while cattle and goat feed are often forbidden to sheep because of the fear of excess copper.  Feed and supplements with copper are more readily available than ones without copper.  

Not sure what the copper levels are in Australia.


----------



## farmerjan

We have found that the "limited copper" thing with sheep may actually mean they are deficient... we use our cattle feed for the sheep.... they do not run with the cattle... and they do get their own mineral... The "colored" sheep often would have that reddish tinge to the black coloring and that is almost always a copper deficiency.  So, I am not saying it isn't something to consider, but there are times that the strict guidelines may just not apply.


----------



## Cecilia's-herd

farmerjan said:


> We have found that the "limited copper" thing with sheep may actually mean they are deficient... we use our cattle feed for the sheep.... they do not run with the cattle... and they do get their own mineral... The "colored" sheep often would have that reddish tinge to the black coloring and that is almost always a copper deficiency.  So, I am not saying it isn't something to consider, but there are times that the strict guidelines may just not apply.


You are just a well of knowledge!


----------



## Baymule

I feed an all purpose pellet and it has copper in it. 



			https://martindalefeed.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/MFM-14-All-Purpose-Pellet.pdf
		


I fed it to the horses, then feeder pigs, then chickens and finally sheep. Now I buy just one feed for all. 

The black haired sheep needed the copper!


----------



## Ridgetop

Sheep are much less susceptible to copper poisoning than people think.  Dorpers and Katahdins have a higher tolerance to copper, possibly a higher need for it.  It's possible that all hair sheep are like that since Farmerjan's Dalls also tolerate copper.  The majority of copper poisoning in sheep could be due to choosing the wrong mineral supplements.  Has anyone actually had any sheep die from copper poisoning?  As shown by a necropsy?


----------



## Legamin

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day to you all.After almost 20 years breeding our line of Suffolk’s we will over the next 12 months sell almost all of the flock and transition to a composite Hair flock. Starting from “scratch “by  purchasing small lines of ewes and suitable rams along with some genes of our Suffolk’s we will begin to breed up a suitable type of slaughter lamb which has the ease of production (i.e. no shearing or crutching)but with the eating qualities of the English Shortwools.
> 
> I guess some of you are Hair Sheep Breeders, have you found any adverse comment about the “denseness “of the meat or a taste they dislike? Down here the supermarkets present the two types quite differently, but perhaps you all have taken the trouble to target them properly?
> 
> I have observed some “consumer pushback” to the eating qualities of the Hair or Tribal breeds and the prices at the saleyards “reflect this”, but if we apply the production methods we use with the Suffolk’s the lower prices we receive for breeding females and production rams will be off- set by the reduced workload and we will be able to continue to farm sheep for a number of years into the future.( I'm now 75)
> 
> Buying in the sale yard is a “risky” business” as in the main the stock has some sort of “fault” but with careful breeding these initial problems will be overcome, buying in the private market results in mainly small lines (maybe even just one or two ewes at an exorbitant price)for which you have to travel for hours to look at. Our regional sale is a 200 km round trip but there are times when you will be able to purchase some very good lines as an average sale is over 6000 head on a weekly basis(small I know by the numbers some sales attract), you just have to turn up each week and because we wish to start with about 100 ewes with as big a genetic pool as possible it seems the way to go.
> 
> The introduction of the Australian White is such a breed, but the path they took seems to be a “well kept secret”, although I did miss out on a “run” of their young ewes recently because I did not “have my wits about me” and realized too late what they were.
> 
> So this week we purchased our first ewes, they were within budget and all looked to be “in-lamb” (14 in all). They are a mixed lot of BH and White Headed Dorpers; some are pretty “scruffy” and need to be cleaned up. I don’t think the traditional method of sheep shearing is  the way to go as on the first side you are shearing against the way the hair lays, so I think I will try a shear down  method like the way you finish on the second side in normal shearing. If you clear around the tail and up to the “pin”, then start at the “poll” and go down the neck across the shoulder and finish the “first side” turn the sheep over and do the second side as normal will result in a “cleaner “ looking job.
> 
> I would be interested in any of “your” experiences in this type of breeding; I will resist the use of Poll Dorset’s but may try a Texel, Wiltipoll, White Suffolk or even a Border Leicester, but I fear it may put too much “leg” under the lambs.....T.O.R.View attachment 37754


I selecting the breed of our sheep one of the first things was to start finding breeders and ordering samples of product.  The primary difference that I found was that the hair breeds seems to need to be slaughtered at the point that they are not recovering hair from the Spring drop.  In the end I went a different way in trying to help bring a rare breed back from the edge of extinction.  The fact that they are enormous, calm demeanored and delicious was a delightful bonus.  I will say I found a distinction between lamb that comes from Australia/New Zealand and it is a stronger flavored meat than the average similar breed sheep in the US.  Of course this depends on feed largely and I am not knowledgeable of all that you feed your sheep but the majority of sheep in the US are organic lush green grass fed, some Winter hay supplement in colder climates and the tendency to avoid almost all medical intervention and vaccines in the sheep headed for market.  There will be higher losses but the meat is fork-cut tender and the flavor is ‘sweet’ and very unlike the New Zealand lamb at Costco.  My average customer will pay up to $6.50lb on the hoof for a 180lb 6 month old lamb.  It is definitely a high demand niche market and I’m sure if I talk about it too much it will vanish.  But my wool bearing sheep have worked out well.  The down side is that the breed produces too much wool!  I have to shear twice a year and get a 7” coat each time.  However…lemons to lemonade..I found a cleaner and processor that can turn this into specialized roving and yard that sells for $22.00 per ounce and costs about that much per pound to get it processed and shipped back.  That’s my .02 worth.  I do know that dealing with a hundred sheep and dealing with thousands is a whole different world and it moves and different speed…one that I can’t keep up with anymore.  I’m just trying to turn my retirement into an profitable and enjoyable lifestyle for my children and grandchildren.  My last thought would be if the import meat here is stronger because it is in refrigerated shipping for much longer than the local product?


----------



## Legamin

Baymule said:


> I feed an all purpose pellet and it has copper in it.
> 
> 
> 
> https://martindalefeed.com/wp-content/uploads/pdf/MFM-14-All-Purpose-Pellet.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> I fed it to the horses, then feeder pigs, then chickens and finally sheep. Now I buy just one feed for all.
> 
> The black haired sheep needed the copper!


Do you think it is the color of the wool that requires a dose of copper?  I have a white faced breed but about one in 500 pops out black or blue..the blue being so rare as to make them worth their weight in….well…not quite gold…aluminum maybe.  But I only could find one and I can tell you they are dear.  My question would be whether the increase in color creates a copper requirement?  Or it this just a black faced sheep thing?


----------



## Baymule

I think much of the lamb from Australia and New Zealand is Merino. Bred for high production fine wool, probably has lots of lanolin, which, to me at least, puts a “taste” to the meat. Hair sheep have very little lanolin and the meat has a lighter taste. That’s just my thoughts, I could be totally wrong.


----------



## Baymule

Legamin said:


> Do you think it is the color of the wool that requires a dose of copper?  I have a white faced breed but about one in 500 pops out black or blue..the blue being so rare as to make them worth their weight in….well…not quite gold…aluminum maybe.  But I only could find one and I can tell you they are dear.  My question would be whether the increase in color creates a copper requirement?  Or it this just a black faced sheep thing?


Good questions, but I don’t have an answer as to why. I have read to provide Dolomite lime to sheep. Mine love it. In case of too much copper, the Dolomite will negate the effects. The sheep will regulate themselves on mineral.


----------



## Bruce

Legamin said:


> worth their weight in….well…not quite gold…aluminum maybe.


After doing a LOT of careful sorting out the aluminum from the rest of the metal AND pulling the aluminum fin off baseboard copper pipe, I found that used aluminum isn't worth much of anything. Certainly not worth the trouble sorting it out. Definitely worth pulling off the copper pipe because it was then "clean" and worth a lot more than if the aluminum was still on it. 

There can't be much copper in my soil/coming into the grasses or the alpacas would be in sad shape, they are copper intolerant. Not supposed to feed supplements with any amount of copper.


----------



## Ridgetop

In goats, the lack of sufficient copper showed up first in color fading. However, color fading can also be due to other things, i.e. sun bleaching, lack of nutrition, etc.

Since you are interested in whether copper can determine color variety and depth of same, you need to do a wool analysis in your sheep.

You also need to research color genetics in your chosen breed.  Remember that for over 1000 years white sheep have been preferred since the wool could then be died.  In the "olden days" one black sheep was left in with100 sheep as a way to do a fast count.  Colored wool was discounted in price since its commercial use was lowered.  It is only since the advent of a niche market in hand spinning that naturally colored wool has gained popularity. 

As to color genetics, the blue, lilac, and spotted varieties are all genetically controlled. The "blue" color is actually a diluted black gene, with a restriction on the red gene.  In faded black animals this is seen as a rusty shade in the back coat.  This rusty shadig of the back coat in dairy goats was the first indication of copper deficiency.  The blue gene not inky dilutes the black gene but stops any red gene from appearing.  If you want to breed "blue" wool, you will need to keep black wooled breeding individuals in the gene pool. Breeding blue to blue may work for a generation or two if the blue genetic variation is recessive, but you will have to add the black color gene back in to maintain the blue color saturation.  Without adding the black genetics back in you will eventually lose your blue coloring.  Another problem is that the blue and black genetics will be so limited breeding solely for color in a very tight gene pool will produce many other genetic flaws. 

Here are some things to consider:
Is the blue and black wool as good quality as the white wooled individuals?
Are the blue and black individuals the same conformation quality as your prize winners?
Since you have a registered flock can you register blue and black individuals?
Are you breeding for quality or color?
Can you afford to keep a small flock purely for color experimentation?

If you decide to breed to try to produce blue and black sheep in your breed, yu need to do some studies on genetics.  Then have fun!


----------



## Ridgetop

Since all soil has a certain amount of copper and other metals in it, the copper produced in forage and hay is different than the copper fed as a supplement.


----------



## Legamin

Ridgetop said:


> In goats, the lack of sufficient copper showed up first in color fading. However, color fading can also be due to other things, i.e. sun bleaching, lack of nutrition, etc.
> 
> Since you are interested in whether copper can determine color variety and depth of same, you need to do a wool analysis in your sheep.
> 
> You also need to research color genetics in your chosen breed.  Remember that for over 1000 years white sheep have been preferred since the wool could then be died.  In the "olden days" one black sheep was left in with100 sheep as a way to do a fast count.  Colored wool was discounted in price since its commercial use was lowered.  It is only since the advent of a niche market in hand spinning that naturally colored wool has gained popularity.
> 
> As to color genetics, the blue, lilac, and spotted varieties are all genetically controlled. The "blue" color is actually a diluted black gene, with a restriction on the red gene.  In faded black animals this is seen as a rusty shade in the back coat.  This rusty shadig of the back coat in dairy goats was the first indication of copper deficiency.  The blue gene not inky dilutes the black gene but stops any red gene from appearing.  If you want to breed "blue" wool, you will need to keep black wooled breeding individuals in the gene pool. Breeding blue to blue may work for a generation or two if the blue genetic variation is recessive, but you will have to add the black color gene back in to maintain the blue color saturation.  Without adding the black genetics back in you will eventually lose your blue coloring.  Another problem is that the blue and black genetics will be so limited breeding solely for color in a very tight gene pool will produce many other genetic flaws.
> 
> Here are some things to consider:
> Is the blue and black wool as good quality as the white wooled individuals?
> Are the blue and black individuals the same conformation quality as your prize winners?
> Since you have a registered flock can you register blue and black individuals?
> Are you breeding for quality or color?
> Can you afford to keep a small flock purely for color experimentation?
> 
> If you decide to breed to try to produce blue and black sheep in your breed, yu need to do some studies on genetics.  Then have fun!


You have given me a lot of information to digest.  I know I need to get some reading up done on this.  I have been relying on the extensive breeding program of the person supplying our current genetics.  They have a broad enough program that we will have three unrelated rams and a flock of ewes that can breed directly with any of them.  Through four breeder rams we have accumulated a broad enough genetic pool to begin in-house breeding.  The AI side is where I have relied on others.  These sheep come from Great Britain, Tasmania and Virginia…all the oldest flocks with the genetics that best match the original breed standard before the breed diminished to just 50 remaining in the 1920’s.  It has been a hard won battle that is not yet over to keep this breed alive.
Our focus is on health, reproduction and breed standard.  Only 4 star carded (judged-as there is no breed standard for judging yet because of the limited stock available they are judged on a 5 star carding system by just a few judges)  sheep advance to re-breeding.  Those have to take priority over color.  But I cannot ignore color because very demanding wool customers who only accept natural colors…and put in orders based on what they want…are a very important revenue stream that I cannot afford to ignore.  The base color is white. But the breed allows for black, brown, blue and white.  The historical use of these sheep’s wool was for the white wigs used in Parliament, Judges and Barristers wigs.  The secondary market came with the greater indulgence of children during the Victorian period where the industry standard for doll’s hair were exclusively the long lustrous ringlets of wool that were indistinguishable from clean, well kept human hair.  For the doll industry, the colors were not only tolerated but encouraged.
We have one black and one blue and a tan…which is not a color we are trying to produce much of currently.  This year I bred to a white ram only.  Next year we re-intoduce the line to a blue ram.  As of this Summer we will have enough unrelated  rams of the right colors in house to maintain our own in-farm breeding program for the foreseeable future.  I have a clock on my efforts.  I am 60 this year and plan to sell a working sheep farm in 15 years to retire.  So what I can learn and do and enjoy now is it.  I know that this is a very short window to build a flock with specific genetics and I can only hope the future buyer continues the program but that will not be my concern.  If I end up like my grandmother I will fall in the garden hard at work and that would suit me fine.
Do you recommend any particular books on sheep genetics?


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## Ridgetop

Basic color genetics is fairly stable throughout different species.  There are only 3 color genes - white (absence of color) black, and moorit (brown).  All other colors derive from combinations of these genes, combined with other genetic "blockers" which determine parti color (spotted or patterned), head only color etc.

Here are several papers and articles written on the subject of color in sheep by authors across the globe which might be of interest to you.



			https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cornell.edu/...
		



			https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cornell.edu/...
		






						AAB - Genetic background of coat colour in sheep
					






					aab.copernicus.org
				








						Genetics of Coloured Sheep - Black and Coloured Sheep Breeders Association of New Zealand
					

There are two main gene series that control the colour of New Zealand sheep: one governs colour pattern and the other governs the actual colour that the sheep w




					www.colouredsheep.org.nz
				




I became interested in color genetics when breeding Holland Lop rabbits.  At one time we bred a few market lambs that were black or lovely silver gray and were a standout in the show ring.  Since I no longer want the work (or expense) of shearing we switched from Dorsets to White Dorpers.  Our interest is in meat production.  However, the study of color genetics is fascinating and if you are serious about incorporating a number of naturally colored wool sheep in your flock, you will enjoy experimenting.  

Since you are interested in wool quality, pay close attention to any difference in crimp or length of staple that may be produced by the color variations you produce.  While I have not read about anything extreme, I did notice there was a slight difference in texture between the white hair and black hair of my Pinto mare.

Have fun!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,yesterday evening we had delivered  (after a almost 9 month wait,due to Covid restrictions) the last peice in our breeding jigsaw. 4 rams,Compisites bred from Red Meatmasters.As you can see from the photos they are pretty impressive in lots of ways and will have a very good impact going forward to the prodgeny...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Breeding puzzle complete!!!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Bruce said:


> Breeding puzzle complete!!!


Yes Bruce,complete .All I need to do now is set up the schedule for joining.The male team,Persain,Awassi,Wiltipol,Aussie White,W.H.Dorperand the Red Meatmaster....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

WOW! Those rams are impressive! Lucky you, to finally get them to your farm. They are gorgeous in every way. I can't wait to see what they produce. You are going to come up with a SUPER SHEEP! Any ideas yet what you are going to name this new breed you are creating? My vote is for Jenny Sheep.


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## Bruce

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Yes Bruce,complete .All I need to do now is set up the schedule for joining.The male team,Persain,Awassi,Wiltipol,Aussie White,W.H.Dorperand the Red Meatmaster....T.O.R.


I'm not sure I can imagine the chart that would be needed to keep track of all the ewe and ram breedings!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Bruce said:


> I'm not sure I can imagine the chart that would be needed to keep track of all the ewe and ram breedings!


At this point Bruce ,neither can I? A year or so ago I purchased from a company in China whosr Marketing Director is a member of the FB group EID's in 8 colors for about A.15c ea,and she sent me a scanner as well.Each ram will be given a color and the ewes will have the same,their prodgeny will also carry that color.If I select a lamb from a given group to go to another ram,it's lambs will carry both colors one in each ear indicaiting2/3 generations before.

Well ,that is how I envisage it at the moment,the EID's are numbered and individuals can be identified.T.O.R.


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## Ridgetop

That is similar to how we tag our lambs.  4 different rams, each assigned a color and their female progeny tagged with the sire's color.  Makes it easy to sort them for breeding but gets harder when we want to identify the ewe's maternal lines!  LOL   Still working on that.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

This was posted on the FB page today,look forward to the groups reactions.
REGEN ITIVE AGRICULTURE: THE PROCESS OF CHANGE.

The change in thinking is substantial when contemplating the transition to what is a complete reversal of the way that farming is currently undertaken.

In the current farming structure, the farmer controls what happens in both the long and short term, so consider the following setup.

The farm is a company. Nature is the Managing Director. The farmer is the General Manager. There are a number of Departments responsible to the GM. These are made up of,

1Fertilizer, Pharmaceuticals and Herbicide.

2.Livestock.

3.Nature of Pastures and Landscape.

4.Water, it’s supply and conservation.

5.Paddock size, number, and type of landscape.

Nature as MD delivers company policy in the shape of heat and cold, sun and rain. It is the job of the GM to develop strategies to maximize the financial returns to the company from the existing policy’s which may change from year to year

Capital outlays must reduce the COP, because net profit is the difference between the COP and the net returns from sales. Production growth will increase over time as the decisions of the GM and the directions of the MD take effect.


This dept most likely contributes the most to the annual cost of running the company and its elimination will return the most benefits to COP, livestock and land health and the total environment. It should most likely be undertaken over a period of years, although in our case we went “cold turkey”. Our path does have costs however as stock unable to cope “will die”, but those that survive will be so much stronger as the basis of your future financial returns. Instead of the previous inputs you will replace them with a complete mineral mix which will support and strengthen the animal’s natural system. (We started this process over 40 years ago) If you are now only starting out on this path you can expect to go a whole year before the improvement in animal health is evident (patience and perseverance is needed along with “nerves of steel”).
Livestock (if that’s your thing) will be your principal income stream, but does your current species actually fit the land you are farming?....After the wool “crash”, many farmers in our district turned to Cattle as their principal income stream, even on our current farm they tried for 20 years, “at least “,prior to our purchase to produce Cattle profitably and in my view, all “failed” ,due to the nature of the landscape and soil type .Our principal grazing flats and slightly rising land is decomposed Granite generally < 5 PH along with high Aluminum. The bulk of our farm sits on the edge of soil changing from Granite to a poor soil mix which only really supports shrubby plants and dry country trees, but it does support excellent stands of Microlaena. A term I like is “Make the livestock fit the landscape, not the landscape fit the stock”.
Diversity is the 2nd key to stock health, IMO you will never have healthy stock who a fed a mono or duo pasture mix. Our pastures both Annual and Perennial, Native and surviving Exotics and it has been measured at about 50 species. Animal manures both wild and domestic are the only nutrients added to the pastures. Our pastures vary from flood plain to sloping ones with a max of about 30 degrees, ground cover over the farm exceeds 95% and approx. 30% is grazing woodland almost all towards the top of the catchment.
Our surface water is only used for two purposes, stock/wildlife water and as an agent for re-hydrating the flood plain where water is transferred through the soil profile which is accessed by the pastures without evaporation loss. Our system of capture means that the water arrives in the best possible condition for stock and wildlife. Part of our restored creek is now an active “wetland”, which feeds below waterline life as well as above. We now host at various times an array of water birds, numbering about 5 species.
Currently we have 18 grazing paddocks of varying sizes and production capabilities. Were we to run the flock as one, the grazing requirement would be two 15 day (in the main) per year? Currently the program requires 3 or 4 groups as we develop the animal type I prefer in the long term, currently we “join” about 150 ewes with an aim of 250 breeders in a few years’ time.
The MD will deliver policy to the GM, it will however be different, based on the slant that Nature takes, it could be one of Sun, Rain, Heat or Cold. The various departments will need to respond differently depending on the impact of each scenario. The GM will demand a flexible approach to achieve a desirable outcome.

There are very few who remember the times in the 40’s ,when up until then all farming was conducted in a sustainable manner, but a return to the days of old does not have to result in a loss of net profit just a reduction in the Cost of Production.

At the height of the last “dry” we undertook to hand-feed the beginnings of the new flock, but in doing, locked up the rest of the farm approx. 80% and continued feeding for about a month after the break.

The ongoing future of the program is not “set in stone "as it must proceed within the constraints of Jenny’s health outcome...................T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, well I guess you heard that we have had a shower or two of rain of late.

As regular readers will know we have been working on water management and control on our farms creek.Briefly ,the catchment is approx 400 acs and in recent weeks we have had approx 200mm's or 8 ins of rain. This event is by far the largest test the system has been subjected to.The peak flow is estimated to be over 6 meters wide and 1 meter deep.

The photos show the result and the "lack of damage" inflicked on the streambed and streambank, the lack of damage is IMO because we manage the speed of the flows..The photos start at the boundary fence and the creeeks exit from our farm,next shows water clarity,the rest are upstream.


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## Baymule

That is about the best explanation I’ve ever read. Farming is a lot more than tossing livestock out in pastures and hoping for the best. 

Grass. 

Grass is the single most important plant worldwide, for all life stems from grass. 

You have done an outstanding work on providing a sustainable environment for the native and “brought in” grasses on your farm. You don’t try to “tame” Nature, but as GM of the farm, you work with Nature for the best possible outcome.  

You are an inspiration and have set a standard for us all to emulate. 

I recently sold my small farm and have moved to a rent house that belongs to my son. I sold my horses, gave away my chickens and culled my flock. My sheep and dogs have about an acre now. I’m looking for another farm, hopefully with more acreage and grass. My plans include rotational grazing, water retention and conservation and a wide variety of grasses and forbs . I want to increase my flock, keeping both registered and commercial Katahdin sheep. 

I watched you and your beloved Jenny, at an age where most people are ready to retire, sell out your prize sheep and embark upon a whole new breeding program. The spirit of adventure runs deep in your veins. You generously share the wisdom of your years and experience with others, clear across the world. You have much more impact than you will ever realize.


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## Bruce

That is great TOR. No erosion, water retention rather than just scouring through. Excellent work.


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## farmerjan

Very nice the way you have managed the water runoff from exceptional rains like that.  Envious of the beautiful green grass, but we will soon start to see greening up here as our spring comes in and you will be going in the opposite direction, into fall. 

You have done an exceptional job of being able to negate all that water that mother nature saw fit to dump on you at once.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,so, my girl Meg had her pups the other night.Thought you might enjoy some photos.She had 3 boys and 1 girl,they are Kelpie/Border Collie X ,with a cut of Dingo......T.O.R.


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## Baymule

Those are some lovely puppies. I love their colors.


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## farmerjan

Looks like they are fat and sassy.  Meg is doing a good job.  

You are getting into fall and colder temps correct?  How are the sheep doing?  How is the grass holding up?  Have you had any unusual weather patterns? 
Are you using the new rams yet for breeding/, or are you waiting to put them in at a certain time to get lambs at a certain time? 
Hope things are staying quiet and status quo with Jenny.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day, in answer to FJ's questions. The consistent rain has caused a few foot problems inspite of the fact we have them on the highest grazing pastures.Generally speaking the Jan/Feb period is a hot/dry time,but this year we had no Summer to speak of and went straight to Fall,that ment all of our cool season grasses/year round Natives woke up early,so along with the standing dry warm season leftovers we have lots of fresh green for the stock to graze on.(although it has a high moisture content so the standing dry is a bonus).In Dec many local farmers were encouraged to slash the standing dry,but this has not been the right path as it turns out.

The new boys are in with a small group of tall Nth Africian ewes along with some very strong Middle Eastern types.The bulk of the ewes are running with an Awassi ram,to get a better milking gene in the resulting lambs.

The bulk of our gene pool evolved in a harsh ,dry climate and are oppertunuity breeders ,and thats what we allow to happen.All of our killer boys are sold for just 2 special Muslum occasions which at the monment falls mid-year and because we specialise in the type of sheep from their homelands with the same management and taste to boot we has no trouble selling everything we have on offer.

LATE NEWS : my other girl Tina had 3 female pups last night,OMG, it;s going to be a busy time ahead...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

Puppies all over the place!


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## Alaskan

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day folks,yesterday evening we had delivered  (after a almost 9 month wait,due to Covid restrictions) the last peice in our breeding jigsaw. 4 rams,Compisites bred from Red Meatmasters.As you can see from the photos they are pretty impressive in lots of ways and will have a very good impact going forward to the prodgeny...T.O.R.


I have never see sheep like that. But easy to see that they are quality rams with great conformation. 

Fascinating. 

Remind me of Brahman cattle... I am sure because of those ears.


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## Baymule

Puppy breath! 

Having lots of graze for the sheep is a bonus!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,Tina lost one of her pups ,there must have been an issue because she refuced to feed it,still she is doing a great job on the other 2. Next time I will try for a photo.
Megs are going great guns and their eyes will be open at the end of the week ,when I will start feeding them as well as Megs milk.T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

Sorry about the lost pup, but as you know from many years, if the mother refuses to take care of it, feed it or whatever, she usually has a sixth sense of something being wrong and it is nature's way to not try to "salvage" an animal that cannot compete in the "real world".  It is a hard thing but sometimes survival of the fittest is the best.  Glad that the others are all doing so good.  
Does Jenny take any pleasure in the dogs or the puppies?  Can she share that with you still? 
Hope the sheep are all doing good.  It must be a very busy time there with you getting ready for the cold weather.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

farmerjan said:


> Sorry about the lost pup, but as you know from many years, if the mother refuses to take care of it, feed it or whatever, she usually has a sixth sense of something being wrong and it is nature's way to not try to "salvage" an animal that cannot compete in the "real world".  It is a hard thing but sometimes survival of the fittest is the best.  Glad that the others are all doing so good.
> Does Jenny take any pleasure in the dogs or the puppies?  Can she share that with you still?
> Hope the sheep are all doing good.  It must be a very busy time there with you getting ready for the cold weather.


Hi FJ, we follow SOTF in all our livestock endevors,no Jenny really does not ingage with the dogs or pups anymore,she sees my dogs running about and understands I have to have them to move the sheep,maybe when their eyes are open and they come over close to the house she may engage a bit.Yes ,a busy time ,today is showery,windy and only 7c feels like mid winter.T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

BRRRR... Is it cold early for you?   The temperatures here are a little crazy.  We have a few days of 60's and 70's F and then we had several nights in the 20's.  Up and down like a yo-yo.  It got back down to 27 last night but the sun is supposed to be mostly out today and temperatures again in the 60's....
Some of the fruit trees here are starting to bloom and there will be some loss again.  Wish it would not get so warm early and then drop again.  Would much rather see it in the 50's and down to the 20's and 30's.... then trees would not be in such a rush to blossom.


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## Baymule

I love the chocolate and tan coloring, that one with the white blaze is especially marked pretty. Your dogs do their work and look good doing it.


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## farmerjan

Hope that you are doing okay @The Old Ram-Australia .... I am sure that with the winter upon you that you are busy trying to keep things going and all.  Hope things are still status quo with Jenny... 
Thinking of you


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## Alaskan

farmerjan said:


> Hope that you are doing okay @The Old Ram-Australia .... I am sure that with the winter upon you that you are busy trying to keep things going and all.  Hope things are still status quo with Jenny...
> Thinking of you


X2


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## Finnie

farmerjan said:


> Hope that you are doing okay @The Old Ram-Australia .... I am sure that with the winter upon you that you are busy trying to keep things going and all.  Hope things are still status quo with Jenny...
> Thinking of you


X3

I was just thinking about them the other day. It’s been a few months since @The Old Ram-Australia posted and I was missing his posts.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks,it's been quite a while and lots has happened in the meantime.Recently I have made the decision to have Jenny move to residential care shortly when a place in the desired care provider becomes vacant.Her car is now all consuming and they will care for her with 3 nurses over the 24 hours unlike me over the time frame 24/7.I came to this decision after suffering total psychicial and mental exhaustion trying to keep on top of her needs. The funding of her future care has required me to sell 40%of the farm,which we had planned for in our retirement, still it is going to be a tough time for her as well as myself i think. I do wonder how others cope as the bond is $550.000 plus a fund for other things she will need.

On the farm front lambing is well under way and things seem to be going OK,lucky the new flock is caple of in the main looking after itself as I have little time in the day after attending to Jenny's needs. Mey had a very nice little of pups which I am starting puppy school at the minute.....Hope you enjoy the lamb spam and I will add some on the puppies later...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I’m so sorry that Jenny’s condition has reached this point. You have done all you can and this decision is best for both of you.


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## farmerjan

I am also very sad for you but understand it very well.  My mom had to have 24 hr care which my father had help in the home.  But he did not have a farm to care for either.  It was very expensive and I don't know where things would have gone had she lived much longer.  She was not even ambulatory.  My heart goes out to you having to make a very difficult decision.  Prayers that somehow she will adapt and that you will be able to find peace with her having the constant tending to that she needs. 
The lambs look great and it is blessing that you have that to occupy your mind at times.  
I was wondering about the puppies... I think she was expecting the last time you were on h the forum.  
God bless you... we care....


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## Mini Horses

,⬆️ x100.   . I've had to make those decisions for my mom, it was tough but best.  She got great care and left this world a few years ago, in her 90s.


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## Alaskan

farmerjan said:


> I am also very sad for you but understand it very well.  My mom had to have 24 hr care which my father had help in the home.  But he did not have a farm to care for either.  It was very expensive and I don't know where things would have gone had she lived much longer.  She was not even ambulatory.  My heart goes out to you having to make a very difficult decision.  Prayers that somehow she will adapt and that you will be able to find peace with her having the constant tending to that she needs.
> The lambs look great and it is blessing that you have that to occupy your mind at times.
> I was wondering about the puppies... I think she was expecting the last time you were on h the forum.
> God bless you... we care....


Perfectly said!  X3!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you for your kind words ,What  a morning,I have wiped everything off of my laptop,have little idea how to get it all back..T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

OMG.... better find some young "whippersnapper" in their 20's... I think kids nowadays were born with electronic knowledge programmed into their DNA..... 
Hope you can get it figured out and get it back....


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## Bruce

Yes, a difficult but necessary decision TOR. Hard as it is it is best for both of you. Is the facility close to you so you can visit often? $550.000 - over half a million? ouch.

Best wishes for this transition in your lives.


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## Ridgetop

So sorry to hear that she is deteriorating so quickly.  When mom got so bad, she and daddy went into a residence with an attached lock down for Alzheimers patients.  They had been living out of state and we didn't realize how bad she had gotten.  We brought them back to California and found a residential living facility.  They also had "daycare" for those that were not as far along so the spouses could get some respite.  Daddy said that he didn't realize how exhausting it had been to watch her.  The first "daycare" event he slept the entire day because he was so tired!  He didn't wake up until the nurses brought her back to their apartment!  

Our love and prayers go to you.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, I cannot believe it has been so long since I last visited.Much has happened, Jenny's condition is now that I cannot continue her care as I am not qualified in Memory Support and so the decision has been made to hand her care over to a aged care residential home where she will be supported by folks trained in the ongoing care of Dementia. The place chosen is about one and a half hours drive away and my plan is to see her in the afternoon and stay overnight with our youngest daughter and then visit in the morning before returning home to the farm. The bond required turned out to be $730K ,plus ongoings,the sale of the 40% will not quite cover this cost,but both the girls are going to advance us funds which will be part of their inheritance or until I have to sell the rest of the farm.

These changes means that we have to cease trading as a farm business until the situation is a lot clearer with regard to her ongoing care. Jenny scheduled to enter the first stage on Sep 20 for 4 weeks of respite,I do hope she settles OK as things cannot continue the way they are.

Further to the farm ,it has not stopped raining and in the last month alone we have had almost 120 mls.Everything is so wet and any travel has to be on foot unless I risk getting bogged.Because of the increased milking ability of the new ewes the lambs are growing really well grazing the few drier portions of the farm....T.O.R.


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## Alaskan

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day folks, I cannot believe it has been so long since I last visited.Much has happened, Jenny's condition is now that I cannot continue her care as I am not qualified in Memory Support and so the decision has been made to hand her care over to a aged care residential home where she will be supported by folks trained in the ongoing care of Dementia. The place chosen is about one and a half hours drive away and my plan is to see her in the afternoon and stay overnight with our youngest daughter and then visit in the morning before returning home to the farm. The bond required turned out to be $730K ,plus ongoings,the sale of the 40% will not quite cover this cost,but both the girls are going to advance us funds which will be part of their inheritance or until I have to sell the rest of the farm.
> 
> These changes means that we have to cease trading as a farm business until the situation is a lot clearer with regard to her ongoing care. Jenny scheduled to enter the first stage on Sep 20 for 4 weeks of respite,I do hope she settles OK as things cannot continue the way they are.
> 
> Further to the farm ,it has not stopped raining and in the last month alone we have had almost 120 mls.Everything is so wet and any travel has to be on foot unless I risk getting bogged.Because of the increased milking ability of the new ewes the lambs are growing really well grazing the few drier portions of the farm....T.O.R.


Sorry about Jenny.  Dementia is terrible.  It does sound like you are making the best choices in this regard, but it doesn't change the fact that Dementia is ghastly.

The lambs look fantastic!  

Thanks for the update!


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## farmerjan

I am so sad for you.  I can surely sympathize with the situation after seeing what my father went through, keeping my mother at home. He had care takers come in 12 hours a day.   It is a very difficult thing and I know you are doing what is best for her.  I hope that she can settle in there and you can manage the farm and visits to her without wearing yourself out. 

The lambs look absolutely fantastic.  

You are in my  thoughts and prayers, as well as everyone else's on here I am sure....


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## Mike CHS

No words that will help but there are many here that have gone through this and support you and what you have going forward.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you all for your support and kind words,i fear the next  few weeks are going to be a test for both of us.

I think as long as I do not retreat into myself and keep in touch with other folk in the support group along with the support crew I have around me I will be OK. I am still doing thre radio program and last month started to include aspects of Dementia that the carer needs to be aware of based on my experience so far...T.O.R.


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## Mini Horses

🙏
it's a harder situation for those caregivers than the patient.  They don't remember, we do.  Having been in your steps, I assure you this hard decision was best for everyone. 

we care about you both.

those sheep are awesome!


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## SageHill

Definitely difficult decision - but the right one. Been there with my father.
The lambs are gorgeous!


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## Baymule

You can come here to vent and we will always listen and give you all the support we can. I know you miss your dear Jenny but you reached that point where you had to do what’s best for you both.


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## Ridgetop

I just found your site again and have been catching up on the past 2 months.  I am so sorry that Jenny has gotten to the point of having to place her in residential care.  Being forced to sell the farm for her care is terrible.  Do you have medical care like England and Canada?  Don't they provide anything for this type of care?  What will you do for income?  

Is this lump sum like buying lifetime care?  Could you put her in a facility where you pay by the month instead?  Having to sell your farm after all the work you put into it improving drainage and pastures will be heartbreaking, not to mention the sheep that you have been cross breeding for just the types that are profitable for you.  

This is a horrifying situation.  Not only have you essentially lost your dearest Jenny to Alzheimer's but now to lose your life's work too.  I am so very sorry.  You are both in my prayers.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, so much has happened since the last post. Currently I have tested positive to COVID and are isolated on the farm,lucky for me my sister who lives in Queensland has for the last 6 weeks has come down to give me a hand.

But to return to where we left off,Jenny was going to go into 28 day respite and transition to residential care. In less than 3 hours of leaving her she was knocked over by another resident,at 8 pm the duty RN rang and said they could not control her and we should come and pick her up ,or authorise them to call an ambulance to take her to hospital (at this point we were about 130 kms away),so because of the knock she had received we had her go to hospital so we would know if she had suffered any sort of injury. A week ago she also contracted COVID in the hospitial, they are struggling to get her meds right,we have approached about 10 aged care places and to date ,no one will take her because of her care needs.

You all may have seen that the rain continues to fall across the state and we are fortunate that our farm (in the main) is not subject to severe flooding,but even our rising country is "leaking water" and driving is quite risky.

The radio program is going really well and each month now I include a segment on Dementia and its effects on both sufferer and carer,in the new year I think it will become fortnightly as I find more and more guests with a story to tell about their move from the city to the country.

It is planned (COVID permitting) to hold a workshop on the farm on the habitat requinements for a local endangered Parrot (Glossy Black).On the day an expert from Canberra will discuss their needs and we will do a farm walk to inspect our efforts over the last 22 years and our methods of regeneration of the landscape in a sheep grazing envirioment, plus a brief look at the Creek restoration program.....Really this COVID is such an inconvience . 
The sale of the 40% of the farm went through without a hitch,thankfully, so when we do finally find a place the money is all set......T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

So, glad to get the update and to know that you are still doing well, all things considered.  I am glad for you, but sad also, that the sale of part of the ranch went without a hitch so that you are financially able to take care of Jenny when you are able to find a place for her.  
The catching Covid is really an inconvenience.... most people nowadays have not much more of symptoms than a bad cold... which is also a "corona virus"... and sadly people have less resistant immune systems with all the isolation from the past 2+ years.  
I am glad that you seemed to have weathered the covid and hope that Jenny has been able to not suffer from it too much. 
So very sorry, to hear about her being knocked over just after your leaving her, and am glad that you had her taken to a hospital for care...and then catching covid on top of everything else.  I feel so bad that you are not able to find a place yet that can care for her.... prayers that something will turn up soon.  I know that has to be so very difficult for you to not know... and worrying about her in general.  

I think it is wonderful that your radio program is doing so well.  I know that it is a great source of pride that you can help others;  and to include the segments about dementia which so many can relate to in some way or another.  I can imagine that there are many that are trying to go "back to the land" in some sort of fashion,  as we all watch the world get more unstable and expenses for food continue to climb so people might actually realize that they can do things to become a little more self sustaining.  
I have seen on the news that there has been record rain in Australia... There are a couple of cattle farmers on a forum I go on and they have talked about all the rain... yet there is another that is in part where it was dry?  Maybe that was the guy in New Zealand?  I can't remember.  

How are all the sheep doing?  Have you had lambs from some of the new rams you added yet?  

Hoping for some settling of the situation with Jenny... thoughts with you and her.


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## Mike CHS

Thank you for the update and probably like many,  I feel all of the good as well as the bad that you have to be going through.


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## Baymule

What @farmerjan said. She put it so eloquently.


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## Bruce

Very difficult situation TOR  

As usual you seem to be handling everything well though I'm sure it is all very hard on you. I'm glad you have the successful radio program to give you a polestar away from the more troublesome parts of your life.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you all for your kind thoughts.

Unfortunatly 3 of the new rams did not transition to their new envirionment.The other one is going really good and has established a harem of ewes.We have however had 3 lambs that we can trace to them,so it has not been a total loss.

I guess I can consider myself lucky that the sheep are so capable of looking out for themselves....T.O.R.


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## Baymule

I love what you are doing with your sheep. You are creating a breed for Australia.


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## Ridgetop

So sad for your problems.  Between Jenny's dementia and Covid you are being hammered.  All the swales and forming you did to control runoff and water on the ranch are paying off now with the record rainfall.  I wonder if we could get your radio station on Sirius radio.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Ridgetop said:


> So sad for your problems.  Between Jenny's dementia and Covid you are being hammered.  All the swales and forming you did to control runoff and water on the ranch are paying off now with the record rainfall.  I wonder if we could get your radio station on Sirius radio.


G'day Ridge,if you search Braidwood FM 88.9 on the Net you can listen live.It's on first Tuesday of the month,10.00 am AEDST,i will try to post a reminder the day before.......I feel our water managemnt program has meant that in spite of very heavy rain at times the flow is still clear as it leaves our farm,at times it exceeded 2 ins per hour for a sustained period.......I am now on my forth day since testing positive to COVID and are feeling not to bad,although i did lose my appertite for about 5 hours(lol).My daughter laughted when I said it lasted between lunch and my nightly couple of Whisky's....T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi ,can someone try this link for the radio broadcast and let me know if it works?









						Live Stream - 88.9FM
					

Our Own Player Find Us on Tunein




					braidwoodradio.com.au
				




T.O.R.


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## Baymule

@Ridgetop ?


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## The Old Ram-Australia

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Hi ,can someone try this link for the radio broadcast and let me know if it works?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live Stream - 88.9FM
> 
> 
> Our Own Player Find Us on Tunein
> 
> 
> 
> 
> braidwoodradio.com.au
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.O.R.


Just tried the link and it worked,hope some folks can tune in Dec 6th ,I will remind you all closer.T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

@The Old Ram-Australia .... I just tried the link and it worked!!!!! I am stoked, hoping to try to catch your program on Dec 6th... Just got to figure out the time for me here on the east coast of USA (eastern standard time for me).  Thanks!!!!!


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Here is the East Coast conversion.
Sydney NSW is 16 hours ahead of Eastern Time
*9:54 pm*Wednesday, in Eastern Time is
*1:54 pm* Thursday, Sydney NSW (AEDT)


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## The Old Ram-Australia

here are the others.https://24timezones.com/difference/mst/sydney   https://24timezones.com/difference/pst/sydney https://24timezones.com/difference/cst/sydney    T.O.R.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi, on the bad news front ,because of my COVID the Sat workshop has been moved to another site.I am soo disappointed as this was an event I was loooking forward to as a break from all the "tough stuff' around Jenny in the recent weeks .T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Here is the East Coast conversion.
> Sydney NSW is 16 hours ahead of Eastern Time
> *9:54 pm*Wednesday, in Eastern Time is
> *1:54 pm* Thursday, Sydney NSW (AEDT)


Thank you for the conversion times.. I was going to find a site to look it up when it got closer to the date... and you provided that too... 
I am SOOOO Sorry that they moved the workshop... and I suppose you cannot attend with having tested positive to covid either... 
You need a "break"...

How is Jenny doing?  You cannot even visit her right now either I assume.  Any good news???


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## Baymule

I’m so sorry!! Covid is no fun. It is more like a bad head cold now, but still, nobody wants it. I hope the  workshop can be rescheduled


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thanks ,unfortunatly no reschedule for workshop,moved to new site from the pic's not a "patch" on our one. Tested neg today, but I guess they could not take the risk.

Jenny's COVID is finally over ,she has had the worst time with it,her Dementia "crashed" while she had it. An extra specialest was called in to consult and has directed a whole new set of meds for pain control.Thankfully the last two days have seen a return to her old self such as it was.The new pain relief system could see her now being acceptable to one of the Dementia spacific Residential home...T.O.R.


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## Mini Horses

Glad the pain meds are now helping.  Hopeful they can schedule her for an assisted home.  I had to do similar with my mom.  Thankfully the location found acceptable was a very good one, although further than desired.  Altzheimers is a disease that affects the whole family!


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## Finnie

I’m sorry to hear of all the bad developments lately. Glad that you are both over your Covid. It sounds like the new pain medications are going to be very helpful. I hope you are able to catch a break and have some lower stress levels.


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## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> I am stoked, hoping to try to catch your program on Dec 6th... Just got to figure out the time for me here on the east coast of USA (eastern standard time for me). Thanks!!!!!


OZ is close to a day ahead of us. 6 PM on the 6th in OZ is 2 AM EST on the 5th.


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## farmerjan

Okay, I got on the conversion table and if I have it figured right, a 10 a.m. broadcast for you local in Sydney on Tues Dec 6th, would make it 6 p.m. on Monday Dec 5th here.... Does that sound right to you since you are 16 hours ahead of us?  You are on Tuesday when we are still on Monday... Guess that is why they always show Australia having "New Years" hours before us...every year...
I put it on my calendar and hope I can listen in....


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## Ridgetop

Just got back on after a couple days hiatus getting ready for Thanksgiving.   I will try to listen to it - December 6, right?  No wait, if @farmerjan hears it at *6:00 pm EST Monday, December 5*, I will have to tune in for a *3:00 pm PST* broadcast since I am in California.  Is that right?


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## farmerjan

@Ridgetop  go on the link TOR posted on the time conversions... you can put in your time zone/area and his and it will tell you the number of hours difference... but I think you might be right on the figuring since you are 3 hours behind the eastern time zone.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, just a reminder that in about a little under 2 and 1/2 hours the radio program "Our Farm" will be broadcast at 10 am AEDST. I will acknowege on those who have indicaided they will try to be listening.

Live on the NET 88.9 Braidwood FM "live stream".....T.O.R.


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## farmerjan

It's 5:45 p. m. here and I am on the 88.9 Briarwood FM livestream... sure am looking forward to this..... Listening to the "Aussie accent" is fun.....


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## farmerjan

TOR is on and thank you for the shout out. 
 Yes, eggs should be stored point down. The air cell is in the top of the round end... they will last longer as the air cell does not try to follow the natural movement of "rising" that will happen when the air cell is on the bottom. The top of the egg where the air cell is also seems to breathe a little better than the rest of the egg shell where the fluid is against the sides.  I don't know if anyone has ever studied that...


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Thank you FJ for the mention both here and on your own thread....The program is repeated on the 3rd Tuesday at 10.00an AEDST....I am hopeful that from next Feb it will become live each 1st and 3rd Tuesday of the monthat least for a trial at least...T.O.R.


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## Bruce

So the show you just did will be repeated on Mon the 19th at 6 PM here, Tuesday the 20th in AUS? I'll make a note in my calendar. 

DW and DD2 think they should have dinner at 6 PM daily. Except when DW works late at the PO which has been a lot lately since her office doesn't have a regular carrier. So I may be listening while we eat or while I'm making dinner but I'll give it my best shot.


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## Finnie

I had an alarm set on my phone to try to check the link on Monday at 5:50 pm (to give me time to find it.) I think I was out locking up chickens and missed the alarm. ☹️ I am going to set the next one earlier, so I will know I have to lock the chickens up faster and get back in.

@Bruce I also try to have dinner ready at 6:00, but rarely do I ever make that target. Especially with dark coinciding with cooking time. Lately I  just don’t bother even starting until after lockup is done. If I plan something quick. More lengthy stuff gets started around 4:30, and then gets put on pause when I judge that it’s dark enough for the chickens to be inside their coops.


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## Bruce

Yeah the early dark really sets my brain aside as it relates to when I should be doing something.

It is raining and dark today. I went out at 2:45 to give the chickens and alpacas their afternoon food. The auto door on the chickens' coop stall was already closed (it is on a photo cell). I leave the people door open all day so they still had access. But 5 of the girls were out behind the barn in the "kind of raining" rain when I went down.

By now likely they are all where they think they should be for the night even though sunset is officially at 4:11 today. Usually that means Gretel is on the ladder in the feed room and Hera is on the alpaca stand. Hera will NOT be carried but she knows that when I come in to do a beak count and close up, she needs to go into the coop. Sometimes Nyx and Inej are with her, they get down on their own as well. Gretel will step back on my hand then step onto the roost when we get in the coop.


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## farmerjan

@Finnie  ; are you on eastern time or central time?  If eastern, then yes, 6 p.m.... but if central then it would 5 p.m. for you.   I just went on the computer and typed in 88.9 FM. braidwood aus and it came right up.  Takes my computer a bit as it is older and slow... but when it comes up, you just hit the listen arrow or the listen live arrow... and it worked like a charm.  
If I am not working Monday eve 19th, I am going to try to listen to it again since I did miss a little of the end of it.  It is just a homey farm program....


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## Finnie

farmerjan said:


> @Finnie  ; are you on eastern time or central time?  If eastern, then yes, 6 p.m.... but if central then it would 5 p.m. for you.   I just went on the computer and typed in 88.9 FM. braidwood aus and it came right up.  Takes my computer a bit as it is older and slow... but when it comes up, you just hit the listen arrow or the listen live arrow... and it worked like a charm.
> If I am not working Monday eve 19th, I am going to try to listen to it again since I did miss a little of the end of it.  It is just a homey farm program....


Eastern, so I will try to tune in at 6. I will type in how you said. Thank you!


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## farmerjan

It will give you a choice and you want the live stream.   I went on about 10 minutes early to make sure I had the right spot...


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi Farmerjan,how would you feel about doing a live chat on air next year? The station manager has told me I can do it.It would run about 15 mins and we can talk about your farm and your journey getting there...T.O.R.


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## Baymule

That would be awesome! @farmerjan on the radio!


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## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> Yeah the early dark really sets my brain aside as it relates to when I should be doing something.


Mine too!!! 🤨😟. And it just screws up everything...get up, fully wake up, do chores, go to work -- then again at night!!    I think it's 10pm and only 7.

I turn on lights every where in morning to help. 🤷


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## farmerjan

WOW.... I am not sure if it would be possible because of my old computer.  Don't have a microphone that I can see.  Let me see what is possible.  I am very honored that you would even ask.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

farmerjan said:


> WOW.... I am not sure if it would be possible because of my old computer.  Don't have a microphone that I can see.  Let me see what is possible.  I am very honored that you would even ask.


We can do it over a mobile phone conversation.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi folks, I took a new series of some of the lambs.Hope you enjoy.


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## Baymule

Those are some beautiful lambs!


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## Bruce

They look GREAT!


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## Mini Horses

Fat and sassy!   NICE animals...and some lovely color, too. 😁


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## The Old Ram-Australia

Hi, I'm so sorry ,they have moved the repeat.Not sure where to or why. I will ask the station manager.T.O.R.


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## Finnie

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> Hi, I'm so sorry ,they have moved the repeat.Not sure where to or why. I will ask the station manager.T.O.R.


And here I was regretting that I missed it AGAIN.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, just thought that I needed to post. It's Christmas Eve down here and for the first time in my life I have spent it alone.Tomorrow I will spend the day with jenny and then a Xmas day dinner with my youngest girl and her partner. I really needed a couple of decent shots of Eagle Rare and half a bottle of a nice White wine with dinner tonight. Tomorrow will be tough as Jenny rarely knows who I am now, all I can hope for is a smile when she first sees me at the hospital.

The one high point of the day was my first run on my USA built Zero Turn mower which I picked up earlier in the week, it is a monster 54 inch cut and weights 500 kgs,It was purchased after my 40 year old US built  ride on (Toro Wheel Horse) finally wore out the belt that drives the cutters,but I will keep it for jobs where the new one is not suitable.

This years lambs are turning out to be so good in all departments and we are still having lambs born ,which I do not mind as the chosen breeds just cycle when conditions are right.

It seems that you all are doing it pretty tough up there with the weather and all,I hope you all stay safeand I look forward to chatting to you all again next year.Best Wishes, Frank (aka T.O.R.)


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## Baymule

I’m so sorry that you are/were alone. I spent my Thanksgiving holiday sitting here by myself.  Lousy way to spend a holiday that’s about family and togetherness. I hope your Christmas Day is better for both you and your beloved Jenny.


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## Finnie

Merry Christmas, T.O.R.


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## Ridgetop

It is terrible for us when those with dementia don't recognize us any more.  Othe other hand, Jenny had such a difficult time adjusting to the facility that perhaps it is a blessing for her.  

I am so sorry you were alone on Christmas.  The good news about the quality of the lambs you are producing is great.  Your breeding program is paying off in producing the type of lambs you were trying for.


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## The Old Ram-Australia

G'day folks, just a "heads up", in a little over 2 hours "our farm" will be broadcast (AEDST) on 88.9 Braidwood FM and it is "streamed" live on the NET.I hope some of the group will be able to join me.If you are can you txt me on fegan@live.com.au I will give you a shout out......T.O.R.


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## Bruce

I missed it again


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