# Need Help! Very tiny 8 week old Pygmy doeling (pics).



## dianneS (Aug 17, 2009)

I just got an 8 week old pygmy doeling from an over-crowded situation where the goats were kept in the damp woods with no grass or sunshine at all.  Some of the newborns were bigger than she is at 8 weeks!

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv282/dshoenfelt/goats036.jpg
http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv282/dshoenfelt/goats039.jpg


This little girl was semi-rejected by her mother at first, they had to hold the mom down to let the little ones nurse.  I don't know how long she did nurse, but she's been fed concentrated feed.  She's been pooping little cat turd type poops I'm sure due to the feed.  I gradually introduced her to grass but she still got some runny green poop from the grass.  It did start to firm up again, but yesterday I gave her some probios and nutradrench (the dosage for a newborn) and today she has more runny poop and runny eyes too!

What happened?  She was doing well yesterday, now I feel like I should have left well enough alone.  She is still eating, but not as much.  Mosting resting in the shade.  She's drinking plenty of water too.  What's with the runny eyes now?

I'm worried about giving her harsh worm medication right now, she's less than five pounds and seems so fragile at the moment.


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## trestlecreek (Aug 17, 2009)

I would keep up the probios 2 times a day. If you can, also put save-a-calf plus electrolytes in her water.

What is her current diet?
What is her current vaccination schedule?
Have you taken her temperature?


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## dianneS (Aug 17, 2009)

She currently has her choice of hay and grass.  She has had no vaccinations as far as I know.  She does not have a fever.

I just checked on her and she is up and about, she even ran with the other two goats a little and she had a slightly formed poop.


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## trestlecreek (Aug 17, 2009)

Okay.

I would start her on her cd/t shot series. The entro part of the vaccine can help clear up the poo issue. Your goat is at the age that entro can hit pretty hard. 

I would also run a fecal just to be sure you are not dealing with worms or cocci. You can learn to run the fecal yourself or send a stool sample to a vet for a nominal fee.

As soon as her poo clears up, I would also start her on a good grain mix to put some weight on her.


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## dianneS (Aug 17, 2009)

I just emailed the previous owner to make sure that she has not had any vaccinations.  I don't believe that this woman vaccinated them, but I thought I'd better ask to be sure.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 17, 2009)

If you have a good goat vet, I would take her to the vet. Young ones can go quickly.  I would have a fecal done and a general checkup on your little one. Probios is a very good microbial but if she has coccidia or something, she needs treatment now. But you really need to find out what is wrong or maybe find out what isn't wrong. A fecal at the vet's is the best place to start.


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## helmstead (Aug 17, 2009)

I already commented on this over on BYC, perhaps you didn't like the advice, but I strongly, strongly recommend you take it...

Good luck again.


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## username taken (Aug 17, 2009)

Kate is 100% correct, that is a typical cocci kid


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## trestlecreek (Aug 17, 2009)

Yes, find out if she has been vaccinated. She needs to have 3 shots, 1 every 21 days for a total of 3 to be most effective.

Do have the fecal ran as well just to be sure of what you are dealing with.


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## dianneS (Aug 18, 2009)

The previous owner got back to me, she's had no shots and no worming.  Calling the vet.


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## dianneS (Aug 18, 2009)

Had her to the vet this morning.  Wormy and high coccidia count.  Also anemic and possible stomach ulcers.  We're on a pretty aggressive treatment plan with two antibiotics, wormers and a corrective suspension for her possible ulcers.  She's only grass and hay only, no grain and no vaccinations right now, she's too weak.

Actually she looks pretty good for all she's been through and I'm optimistic that she is going to be just fine!


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## trestlecreek (Aug 18, 2009)

Good job getting her to the vet!
What tests did the vet run?
Yes, with some TLC and treatment, I bet she will turn around for you.


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## dianneS (Aug 18, 2009)

The vet checked for worms and coccidia.  She said that the coccidia counts were high, but never actually said she had coccidiosis.  The vet said she is infested with just about every parasite that a goat can get!  She said grain would be the worst thing for her, and that was primarily what she was living on before she came here!

They tubed her with electrolytes and gave her three types of wormer, two injections of antibiotics and some stuff for the diarrhea.  She just dropped a firm little cat turd on the ground this evening.  Her eyes seem clearer already.  Her head is up, her ears are perkier, she just looks better.

This is basically the very same protocol I went through with a neglected, worm infested miniature horse six months ago.  He turned around very quickly and is maturing into a beautiful little gelding.  The vet was so surprised, because his prognosis was not great either.

I'm optimistic (yet realistic) that she's going to be just fine.  My animals are so pampered.  I'm home with them all the time, and spend the majority of my day in the barn.  I notice right away if something is wrong, so I plan to give this little girl the best nursing care possible!


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## dianneS (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm devastated.  We lost her.  I don't understand it.  She looked pretty good after we got back from the vet, or at least she looked good to me.  I'm scared that the vets treatment was too aggressive for her.  I just don't know.  I'm not used to losing them.  I didn't even get to administer any of the medications that the vet sent home with us.

I'm so upset.


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## helmstead (Aug 19, 2009)

Unfortunately this is the way things often end with chronic cocci babies.  Even if you can get them through a bloom, most won't survive past 6 months of age.  This is why it's so important to purchase from breeders than do all the preventative care for their kids.

I am so sorry for your loss...please don't blame yourself or your vet.  Most goat owners have been here before, and empathize with you completely.  You did what you could.


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## dianneS (Aug 19, 2009)

Thanks.  I just talked to the breeder and she is really upset too.  She had no idea and seems like an amature backyard breeder to me.  She's worried about the rest of her herd and I gave her advice regarding things she knew nothing about!  She was clueless about parasites, I couldn't believe it!  She's even considering getting out of the breeding business altogether!  Maybe she should.


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## currycomb (Aug 19, 2009)

sorry for your loss. lost one a couple weeks ago, whole list of problems for him. but onward..  when they are severly worm infested, i read, need to deworm with a mild wormer, getting only a partial amount of the worm load. then go back i think 10 days later with stronger wormer to get the rest. reason being, if you remove all the parisites from stomach at once, the holes bleed, causing the goat to bleed to death internally. we have found that giving red cell or other vitamin and iron supplement helps with the aneima caused by the worms. i have gotten goats that were utd on worming etc, had a horrible worm load, there are resistant worms out there.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 19, 2009)

She didn't know anything about parasites?  Wow..  

It's one thing if you have one die of parasites and say "But I wormed it with (insert worthless, overused anthelmintic here)!" without realizing you may as well have poured it out on the ground...that's forgivable in someone new to goats...but to not even know that parasites are a primary cause of death?  

That's just....pathetic.  That tells me the breeder hasn't picked up the first book, nor googled the first keyword about goats..  It demonstrates a total lack of intellectual curiosity, which is a REQUISITE CHARACTERISTIC for anybody who ever wishes to be even moderately successful in keeping goats _alive_, let along raising and breeding goats.

Sorry about your kiddo...  You should feel good about what you did, and what more you were willing and ready to do, for her while she was here.


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## dianneS (Aug 19, 2009)

I guess one good thing did come out of this.  It opened up the dialog between me and the breeder about proper housing, care and parasite prevention and proper vaccination.  She said she is getting her vet out there asap and will keep me posted as she continues to care for her herd.  She asked me to continue to give her advice and feedback on how to provide better care for her goats.

I hope I can be of assistance to her and the rest of her goats.  Hopefully, she'll get them some bigger and better pasture and housing.  I informed her of how her damp conditions and our wet spring probably contributed to the parasite problem.  She didn't even know anything about how goats get and transmit worms??  I couldn't believe it!


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## Mini-M Ranch (Aug 19, 2009)

I DON'T believe it.

It's easier to say you didn't know anything about it than to admit you knew and did nothing.

I am VERY sorry for your loss.


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## dianneS (Aug 20, 2009)

That could be true.  She may be one of these owners that knows she should vaccinate and worm her animals and just doesn't and she's been lucky so far.

Perhaps rather than admit this is how she keeps her animals, she's just pleading ignorance.

I'm keeping in touch with her and making sure that she gets the vet out there.  I coincidentally took our girl to the same vet hospital that this woman supposedly uses.


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## dianneS (Aug 22, 2009)

Well the breeder informed me that the twin brother of my little girl died yesterday.  I'm not surprised.  I hope that this woman starts to get a clue.  She says the vet will be out today to check everyone over and vaccinate.  I've been trying to send her links to goat information sites in case she really is this ignorant.  Or perhaps she's just been playing dumb.


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## ksalvagno (Aug 22, 2009)

All you can do is try. Some people just shouldn't own animals. You have done all you can do.


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