# Baby Goat in Crisis, please help!



## OwenElf (May 29, 2021)

Hello,
We are a rescue that took in a 4 week old goat a week ago - Owen Elf is the name we gave him. 

He was the smallest of three, and was not feeding. But something else was wrong with him clearly. So, here's the long list:

1. Swollen salivary gland
2. Broken jaw
3. Swollen joints that the vet says are infection
4. Severely malnourished

He's been eating and pooping now for a week but has become even restricted in movement. At this point, he can only lift his head. He cannot stand and does not even try. 

What are we doing so far?
He drinks goat milk regularly. Poop and pee is great.

He gets a B complex.

He is on an antibiotic for one week today. He's now 5-1/2 weeks old and weight 6.8 lbs.

Please help? I don't know what else to do.


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## Sparrow (Jun 2, 2021)

I can't help your situation, but wondering what is the vet. going to do about the broken jaw?


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## Ridgetop (Jun 2, 2021)

Swollen joints - infection - is probably navel ill or joint ill caused by infection in cord when newborn.  Antibiotics may or may not cure this.  What about tetanus?  

Swollen salivary glands are probably part of or due to broken jaw.  What is vet's prognosis on that?  Will jaw be deformed to point he will not be able to eat properly?

Malnourishment will improve as he eats. properly.  Make sure not to over feed since Clostridium/overeaters disease can occur.  

Probably can discontinue Vita B if he is eating well.  

Hope he survives.  Sounds like he will if he is eating well and pooping.


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## OwenElf (Jun 2, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> Swollen joints - infection - is probably navel ill or joint ill caused by infection in cord when newborn.  Antibiotics may or may not cure this.  What about tetanus?
> 
> Swollen salivary glands are probably part of or due to broken jaw.  What is vet's prognosis on that?  Will jaw be deformed to point he will not be able to eat properly?
> 
> ...


Thank you. He’s 6.4.  How much should I be feeding him? He eats about 10 ounces a day but isn’t gaining.  He’s six weeks old now.


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## OwenElf (Jun 2, 2021)

Sparrow said:


> I can't help your situation, but wondering what is the vet. going to do about the broken jaw?


He can still take his bottle most days.  I syringe feed him when he’s in too much pain.


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## OwenElf (Jun 2, 2021)

OwenElf said:


> Thank you. He’s 6.4.  How much should I be feeding him? He eats about 10 ounces a day but isn’t gaining.  He’s six weeks old now.


Tetanus? I don’t know? The person who had him is filthy and doesn’t take care of any of his animals.  Sadly.  How would I know?


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## OwenElf (Jun 2, 2021)

OwenElf said:


> Tetanus? I don’t know? The person who had him is filthy and doesn’t take care of any of his animals.  Sadly.  How would I know?


Ok he doesn’t have all the symptoms.  Doesn’t seem to be tetanus.


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## Sparrow (Jun 3, 2021)

OwenElf said:


> He can still take his bottle most days.  I syringe feed him when he’s in too much pain.


But that doesn't heal the jaw.  I was curious about what is done when a jaw is broken and found this:









						Broken or dislocated jaw: Causes, symptoms, and treatment
					

Injuries to the jaw may cause a break, fracture, or dislocation. Other causes of dislocation include dental procedures or yawning. Treatment may include surgery. Learn more here.




					www.medicalnewstoday.com
				




As well as other articles.  Even though on people, bones heal the same on all mammals.  The articles all basically state that a minor fracture will most likely heal on it's own.  A more severe break will require surgery with metal plates to keep the jaw in place while it heals.  Did the vet. do x-rays on the jaw?


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## Tngoatlady (Jun 3, 2021)

OwenElf said:


> Tetanus? I don’t know? The person who had him is filthy and doesn’t take care of any of his animals.  Sadly.  How would I know?


I can't help either, but I sure hope he makes it. I know you must be a nervous wreck. We just had a newborn born on Memorial Day and she's doing great. I didn't even think about the navel area. I have pygmy goats that I've had for like 2 years but this is the first time I've experienced a birth and I tell you it was very stressful I was so worried about it, but my granddaughter Savannah is going to be a veterinarian and she came and delivered that baby. It was wonderful,  I'll be praying for y'all.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 3, 2021)

OwenElf said:


> Ok he doesn’t have all the symptoms.  Doesn’t seem to be tetanus.


At 6 weeks old he should be eating 24-30oz/day if he is a standard size goat. You should also get him CDT shots if he has not had them yet. It is $10 for the vaccine at any farm store, tractor supply etc.

Sadly some kids just can not be saved. He may pull thru but once they start losing weight it is a hard fight. He may have bottle jaw, which is a lack of copper or anemia due to parasites, ask your vet. If it is low copper he can get a copper bolus, if it is anemia due to parasites he will need to be dewormed. Bottle jaw does not stop a kid from eatting, if just looks bad and will go away after being treated with whichever one mentioned is the problem. You can also try some lamb & kid paste and goat nutri-drench to give him a boost and more calories. There is another supplement you can try called dyne, they make it for dogs and livestock, also high calories.


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## OwenElf (Jun 3, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> At 6 weeks old he should be eating 24-30oz/day if he is a standard size goat. You should also get him CDT shots if he has not had them yet. It is $10 for the vaccine at any farm store, tractor supply etc.
> 
> Sadly some kids just can not be saved. He may pull thru but once they start losing weight it is a hard fight. He may have bottle jaw, which is a lack of copper or anemia due to parasites, ask your vet. If it is low copper he can get a copper bolus, if it is anemia due to parasites he will need to be dewormed. Bottle jaw does not stop a kid from eatting, if just looks bad and will go away after being treated with whichever one mentioned is the problem. You can also try some lamb & kid paste and goat nutri-drench to give him a boost and more calories. There is another supplement you can try called dyne, they make it for dogs and livestock, also high calories.


Thank you.  He’s a Nigerian dwarf.  I bought the drench and will try that.  Do I force feed him if he won’t eat? He’s living inside with me.  He seems pretty comfortable most of the time.  Just so lethargic and unable to move mostly.   Thank you all for your help and prayers.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 3, 2021)

He may just be in enough pain that he wasnt want to move which is understandable. You could ask your vet about an anti-inflammatory injection to help with the joint ill, it will help him be able to easier move his joints. You could also try massaging his leg joints to help them loosen up a bit. Usual treatment for joint ill is 1 week so if he has been on antibiotics for a week and is still this bad off he may not recover. If he does recover he may have health problems for the rest of his life and disability.

Have you checked to make sure his joints flex? He may have more issues then just joint ill keeping him down. Have his selenium checked as he is probly lacking and it can cause white muscle disease. Is your vet experienced with small ruminants? If they are experienced they should have checked most of this already.

You should only force feed as a last resort, it is called tube feeding and uses a lamb/kid tube and a large syringe without a needle. Bottom line he needs food so if he is eating less then 30oz/day even as a dwarf at 6.5 weeks old he is not getting enough. 10oz./day is just not enough to maintain his life. Does he try to suckle at all?


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## OwenElf (Jun 3, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> He may just be in enough pain that he wasnt want to move which is understandable. You could ask your vet about an anti-inflammatory injection to help with the joint ill, it will help him be able to easier move his joints. You could also try massaging his leg joints to help them loosen up a bit. Usual treatment for joint ill is 1 week so if he has been on antibiotics for a week and is still this bad off he may not recover. If he does recover he may have health problems for the rest of his life and disability.
> 
> Have you checked to make sure his joints flex? He may have more issues then just joint ill keeping him down. Have his selenium checked as he is probly lacking and it can cause white muscle disease. Is your vet experienced with small ruminants? If they are experienced they should have checked most of this already.
> 
> You should only force feed as a last resort, it is called tube feeding and uses a lamb/kid tube and a large syringe without a needle. Bottom line he needs food so if he is eating less then 30oz/day even as a dwarf at 6.5 weeks old he is not getting enough. 10oz./day is just not enough to maintain his life. Does he try to suckle at all?


Do you think turmeric could help the inflammation? My vet has much more equine experience and we are in a small town. I do massage his joints and they do flex mostly without pain for him I think. I’ve started him on a supplement with selenium and E and other nutrients. He does sickle sometimes but only 1-2 ounces at a time and in between refuses food.  So I’ve been putting the syringe in his mouth and he doesn’t move his head away- he drinks. Another person said he should Be eating 10-12% of his weight in milk a day.  It appears that’s incorrect! Goodness I wish there was a book I could read to help clarify all things goat.  I have three of them but they seem to conflict.  Thank you all for the wisdom of your experience.  We are trying so hard and he’s such a little fighter.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 3, 2021)

OwenElf said:


> Do you think turmeric could help the inflammation? My vet has much more equine experience and we are in a small town. I do massage his joints and they do flex mostly without pain for him I think. I’ve started him on a supplement with selenium and E and other nutrients. He does sickle sometimes but only 1-2 ounces at a time and in between refuses food.  So I’ve been putting the syringe in his mouth and he doesn’t move his head away- he drinks. Another person said he should Be eating 10-12% of his weight in milk a day.  It appears that’s incorrect! Goodness I wish there was a book I could read to help clarify all things goat.  I have three of them but they seem to conflict.  Thank you all for the wisdom of your experience.  We are trying so hard and he’s such a little fighter.


The selenium and vitamin E paste is a joke. The dosage is so low you might as well not bother. Get his selenium checked and a shot of Bo-Se from your vet if he is low. Are you in a selenium deficient area?


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## OwenElf (Jun 3, 2021)

Not that I know of, no.  Owen has two other siblings born at the same time- very big siblings- both are fine. He was the "runt".


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 3, 2021)

OwenElf said:


> Not that I know of, no.  Owen has two other siblings born at the same time- very big siblings- both are fine. He was the "runt".


Most of the US is deficent in selenium. If you live in the northwest, northeast, atlantic coastal area, flordia or in any state/country surrounding the great lakes you are deficient. This map is from 1983 but I doubt a great deal has changed....there are more modern maps that can give you a more accurate location, like by county,





I brought it up because we had twins born one has WMD and one did not....the one with WMD ended up dying the other is fine.  There is no 100% the one with WMD died due to WMD she ended up having seizures for the last 18 or so hours of her life and dying. So she could have had another underlying issue. I have never seen whatever she has before in my herd and never seen WMD before her. The one who died was the smaller of the two. It's just a thing that may or may not be hindering his recovery. There is a test for it.

Hopefuly he pulls thru.


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## OwenElf (Jun 3, 2021)

Thank you again for all
Your help 

we are in Arizona.  Everyone I’ve asked said no, our selenium is ok.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 3, 2021)

If you are not in a selenium deficient area, there is no need to give him the paste.  As Misfitmorgan said it hasn't enough selenium to offset any true deficiencies.  Don't bother with turmeric.  Fancy home remedies won't help and could upset his gut.  He is on milk which is all he needs at this point.   

Remember that he was in very bad shape when you got him.  The two other kids are doing fine.  Often runts have something wrong with them internally and never are thrifty.  With such a poor start his comeback will be very slow.  Don't expect much from him at this stage.  He not only was the runt and malnourished, but has physical injuries to recover from.  Yu can't rush his healing process.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 3, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> There is no 100% the one with WMD died due to WMD she ended up having seizures for the last 18 or so hours of her life and dying. So she could have had another underlying issue. I have never seen whatever she has before in my herd and never seen WMD before her.


The one with problems may have been starved of oxygen furing the birth process.  We had a single large ram lamb that seemed healthy but couldn't stand.  He could nurse with a bottle but was very floppy,  Got worse and worse so I had him euthanized after 3 days.  Vet said it looked like a neurological problem resulting from bad birth - he was orange when born. 

These things happe in livestock.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 4, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> If you are not in a selenium deficient area, there is no need to give him the paste.  As Misfitmorgan said it hasn't enough selenium to offset any true deficiencies.  Don't bother with turmeric.  Fancy home remedies won't help and could upset his gut.  He is on milk which is all he needs at this point.
> 
> Remember that he was in very bad shape when you got him.  The two other kids are doing fine.  Often runts have something wrong with them internally and never are thrifty.  With such a poor start his comeback will be very slow.  Don't expect much from him at this stage.  He not only was the runt and malnourished, but has physical injuries to recover from.  Yu can't rush his healing process.



Agreed dont give him selenium if you are not in a deficient area, there is such a thing a selenium toxicity and you w3ant any part of that to add to his problems. The paste is just sort of pointless, the only thing I can figure out with the paste is it is ment to give to adult animals if you dont think your feed/forage has enough, not sure what other use it could have. Even so there is so little selenium the actual dose needed is way more then the tube says.

Good luck with the little guy!


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