# buying sheep



## newton the goat

Anything I need to look out in buy sheep? What should I look out for in choosing a young ram? The ones I'm going to be looking at were only born either before Christmas or a bit after. I know when looking for ewes I ask if their mothers had any birthing difficulties but not any other questions I should ask. Plus what things should I look out growth wise? What height should he be, and what weight is best?


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## sonorabitandspur

What breed of sheep? If buying young animals there is a little less risk in my opinion. If buying ewes and rams that are older bear in mind there could be reasons why a particular animal is for sale. And it is entirely possible they won't tell you exactly why. Lol! We bought a beautiful Suffolk ewe named Rose. She was not supposed to have been bred. She was described as having had one pair of lambs the prior year. It was sometime later she ended up with an engorged udder and one of us said, "don't suppose she is pregnant?" "Naw the guy said she was just a little over weight!" (We were newbies) The next day or it could have been a couple days I can't be sure, her udder was leaking, we milked her and saved the colostrum in the freezer. The next day we were out in the muddy pasture as she had a ram and a ewe lamb. We were thrilled at this unexpected bonus until the ewe recovered from giving birth and tried to stomp the poor lambs! So we bottle fed the lambs, and repeated the whole thing the next year, hoping she'd do better! Not a chance she was terrible. She got sold at the livestock auction right after the second lambs were weaned! With young stock ask about the health record and general questions about the parents, make your best guess and hope for the best. Concentrate on things like the animals build it's breeding and is it's size consistent with it's age.
Things like teeth are great indicators of an animals condition and it's ability to maintain it's health. This is often overlooked as it is not always easy to do.


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## sonorabitandspur

Lol! I distracted myself with the funny story! As my kids say, "Old people!"
Seriously though do your homework and check up on the breed you are looking at. Checkout common genetic or tendencies for disease. Spend enough time and effort to sound and look informed to the seller. Realize each time you go out to purchase animals you are going to learn new things.


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## newton the goat

sonorabitandspur said:


> Lol! I distracted myself with the funny story! As my kids say, "Old people!"
> Seriously though do your homework and check up on the breed you are looking at. Checkout common genetic or tendencies for disease. Spend enough time and effort to sound and look informed to the seller. Realize each time you go out to purchase animals you are going to learn new things.


We are buying katahdin sheep. And I have pretty much been talking to the breeders for a few monthes. The woman who is selling me ewes says she will sell me a social grouping of mothers and daughters so we don't get any mopey sheep, both of the people I have gotten to know on a semi personal level lol! The lady with the rams regularly sends me photos of her boys, and before I met the lady with the ewes, the woman with the ram asked all the sheep farmers around her area to see if any have Katahdins ewes for sale, and has regularly been giving me pointers on how to raise the breed properly. I'm thankful I found these two ladies.we have done the weeks of research and have settled on a breed that births easily and is pretty straight forward when it comes to care.


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## newton the goat

sonorabitandspur said:


> Lol! I distracted myself with the funny story! As my kids say, "Old people!"
> Seriously though do your homework and check up on the breed you are looking at. Checkout common genetic or tendencies for disease. Spend enough time and effort to sound and look informed to the seller. Realize each time you go out to purchase animals you are going to learn new things.


And plus we requested that one or two girls with "experience" get thrown in so we won't have too much worries with them our first time in the birthing scene. Lol, and that's why I was wondering what I should look for. She is a nice woman and I don't think she will screw us over hopefully, she knows I'm a first time owner and has also been giving me tips and such oh raising the breed. And I'm sorry to hear about your terrible time with the ewe she sounds horrible 
What size should a katahdin ram be if he was born in December now?


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## sonorabitandspur

I am not familiar with that breed. See them for sale alot. I am glad you found decent people. When we first got our sheep we got two very good ewes and the neighbor across the road had a nice Sulffolk ram. She was very knowledgable and got us started. The problem came when we went out and bought a ewe on our own. She did give us a ram and a really nice ewe, which we kept for quite awhile. And the memories of bottle feeding four lambs are not that bad either. Milking her was another thing though.
I was just concerned you might be going it alone since there was no replies to your thread here.


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## newton the goat

sonorabitandspur said:


> I am not familiar with that breed. See them for sale alot. I am glad you found decent people. When we first got our sheep we got two very good ewes and the neighbor across the road had a nice Sulffolk ram. She was very knowledgable and got us started. The problem came when we went out and bought a ewe on our own. She did give us a ram and a really nice ewe, which we kept for quite awhile. And the memories of bottle feeding four lambs are not that bad either. Milking her was another thing though.
> I was just concerned you might be going it alone since there was no replies to your thread here.


Lol usually when I post on here I post in the goat section so I'm new to posting here. No clue if that has anything to do with it lol but anyways thanks for all the information. We are on our way now to pick up a little ram now when we choose one I'll try and post a picture


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## sonorabitandspur

Great!


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## newton the goat

I couldn't help it his name is Gordon RAMsey 



 

  he's a good forty pounds good teeth, strong bone structure thick fleece and was the biggest of all her babies there, and is a twin which apparently is also a good thing to look for according to some people


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## luvmypets

He is adorable!


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## newton the goat

luvmypets said:


> He is adorable!


We are getting the rest of our flock sometime this week. Two experience girls and their daughters. Both mothers are good with raising their young and have had multiple experience. Neither of them have had any dificulting during birth which is good. I can only hope their daughters will be as successful as their mothers


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## frustratedearthmother

What a cutie - and LOVE the name, lol!


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## newton the goat

frustratedearthmother said:


> What a cutie - and LOVE the name, lol!


Lol thanks we had other names but that one Stuck


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## secuono

I love Gordon Ramsay the chef! His show was great, everyone hated him at first, then by the end, didn't want him to leave! 
Hopefully, the sheep version will become a great chef at creating nice lambs! haha


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## newton the goat

secuono said:


> I love Gordon Ramsay the chef! His show was great, everyone hated him at first, then by the end, didn't want him to leave!
> Hopefully, the sheep version will become a great chef at creating nice lambs! haha


LOL my family loves Gordon Ramsey as well. We are a family who love cooking.  We got some pretty girls for him so hopefully everything goes well and he makes us some pretty babies


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## newton the goat

My dad's girlfriend is trying to convince me to change his name to barrack oRAMa.
So let's do a little vote.
Keep the name Gordon RAMsey 
Or change it to BAA-rrack oRAMa...


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## TAH

Gordon RAMsey! 

Adorable!


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## Bruce

You can name the next ram BAA-rrack oRAMa


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## frustratedearthmother




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## NH homesteader

Oh go with Gordon RAMsey. I don't mix livestock and politics.


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## frustratedearthmother

I say save it for the next one - I love Gordon RAMsey!


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## goatgurl

voting for Gordon Ramsey


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## CntryBoy777

Count me in on gordon RAMsey....Love Master Chef Jr and Master Chef.....there is no need for a BAArack oRAMa....cause ya can't name your Beautiful little Ram after an A**....


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## Goat Whisperer

I like Gordon RAMsey too!


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## newton the goat

I got the girls today 
Group shot:




Five of them are pure breed Katahdins. 
And then this is my girl


 
She is a barbedos black belly and a katahdin cross. Her previous owner named her saraphina but I'm slightly tempted to change it, no offense to the previous owner... should I?  And if so any ideas as to what I should call her?


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## newton the goat

This morning I went out to check on the sheep and to let them out and the first sight I was met with..... a panicked sara with a bucket stuck on her face..... now how she managed that is beyond me... the bucket has been removed and taken out of the pen so she can't to diy again *sigh* poor sheep....


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## samssimonsays

It happens LOL. I am glad all is well. My buckling last summer got his head stuck in a pallet.... how, I have no idea. We had to cut him out of it.  They really do everything they can to scare the bageezes out of us. 

Congrats on the new sheep! What a beautiful starter herd you have!


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## newton the goat

samssimonsays said:


> It happens LOL. I am glad all is well. My buckling last summer got his head stuck in a pallet.... how, I have no idea. We had to cut him out of it.  They really do everything they can to scare the bageezes out of us.
> 
> Congrats on the new sheep! What a beautiful starter herd you have!


Thanks  ... I had to hold her head while trying to figure out how she had gotten so stuck... her head was wedged in this thing and I was scared I was gonna hurt her ... don't know what was inside that she wanted that badly  but after a minute of trying I got it loose and free'd her ... my friend are all laughing St me saying of course it happened to your sheep of all the sheep there lol....


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## CntryBoy777

Oooo they are Nice!! Of course ya can rename her, and from that 1pic, I'd name her 2-Spot...she has 2 bigger black spots on her side...shoulder and just before her leg. My goats have gotten them on their heads, but my older doe had it the worst. I still use buckets, but I remove all handles before they get in the pen...


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## newton the goat

CntryBoy777 said:


> Oooo they are Nice!! Of course ya can rename her, and from that 1pic, I'd name her 2-Spot...she has 2 bigger black spots on her side...shoulder and just before her leg. My goats have gotten them on their heads, but my older doe had it the worst. I still use buckets, but I remove all handles before they get in the pen...


The thing is it didn't even have a handle on it.... her face literally was wedged in the lip of the bucket wish it had just been the handle....


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## CntryBoy777

I've not experienced that....yet.


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## newton the goat

CntryBoy777 said:


> I've not experienced that....yet.


Well let me tell you..it's an interesting thing to deal with .... it makes you giggle at first until you actually realize how scared it is....then you just feel bad  it was funny to be greeted by a bucket but I feel bad for laughing now...I sincerily hope you don't have to deal with it lol


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## CntryBoy777

When the doe, Star, got it on her head the Boys were trying to help her out by bumping off. The handle ended up on one side of her neck and the bucket on the other. I only use plastic buckets. By the time I made it to the pen, she had it around her belly. As soon as Lightning saw me, he started screaming as loud as he could, letting me know something was wrong and they needed help. I had to rip the bucket off of her to free her.


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## newton the goat

CntryBoy777 said:


> When the doe, Star, got it on her head the Boys were trying to help her out by bumping off. The handle ended up on one side of her neck and the bucket on the other. I only use plastic buckets. By the time I made it to the pen, she had it around her belly. As soon as Lightning saw me, he started screaming as loud as he could, letting me know something was wrong and they needed help. I had to rip the bucket off of her to free her.


Aww poor girl lol sounds traumatic she alright now though right?


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## CntryBoy777

Oh yeh, she's just fine...here's a pic of her...
....she was facing off with the ducks the other day...


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## newton the goat

CntryBoy777 said:


> Oh yeh, she's just fine...here's a pic of her...View attachment 28143....she was facing off with the ducks the other day...


Omg she's adorable  and facing off with the ducks lol sounds like Ramsey with my rooster lol neither knew what to make of each other


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## CntryBoy777

Here's a better one of her head........we changed her name from the previous owners to Star, because she has a white star between her horns. She kinda looks like a mule...and can be as stubborn...so, on ocassion we call her Muley.......she turns 10yrs old this yr.


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## newton the goat

CntryBoy777 said:


> Here's a better one of her head....View attachment 28144....we changed her name from the previous owners to Star, because she has a white star between her horns. She kinda looks like a mule...and can be as stubborn...so, on ocassion we call her Muley.......she turns 10yrs old this yr.


She's so cute!!


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## newton the goat

Quick question.... at what age are rams typically sexually active? Because at four months he is already chasing sara's tail


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## NH homesteader

yep he's old enough!


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## luvmypets

4 months they are capable, but it may take him some time to figure it out. My 6 month old ram lamb bred a 3yr old ewe and Im expecting her baby within this week, so they can breed fairly fast. Trust me when I say, an intact ram with ewes will sooner than not result in lambs. What are your plans for breeding?


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## newton the goat

NH homesteader said:


> yep he's old enough!


Lol this is gonna be interesting  sara is 6 monthes and wants nothing to do with his tail chasing so far


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## luvmypets

newton the goat said:


> Lol this is gonna be interesting  sara is 6 monthes and wants nothing to do with his tail chasing so far


You don't want her bred at 6 months, I assume he isn't with them 24/7?


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## newton the goat

luvmypets said:


> 4 months they are capable, but it may take him some time to figure it out. My 6 month old ram lamb bred a 3yr old ewe and Im expecting her baby within this week, so they can breed fairly fast. Trust me when I say, an intact ram with ewes will sooner than not result in lambs. What are your plans for breeding?


We bought him specifically for breeding. We have a few younger ewes who are getting weaned from their mother who will be ready in July as well as their mothers who are ready any time after their kids are weaned.


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## NH homesteader

X2 they need to be kept separately until you want them to breed. She's too young. He might not be able to "do the deed" but not worth the risk.


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## newton the goat

luvmypets said:


> You don't want her bred at 6 months, I assume he isn't with them 24/7?


We just got them yesterday we didn't know he was able to breed at 4 months so we are figuring out housing now since I don't want sara bred yet!


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## newton the goat

The lady who we bought him from said he would be ready in a few months so being the newbies we are we didn't think of any potnetial issues (stupid, I know )


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## luvmypets

newton the goat said:


> We just got them yesterday we didn't know he was able to breed at 4 months so we are figuring out housing now since I don't want sara bred yet!


I totally understand! I know how exciting it is to start out with sheep, Maybe you could make a makeshift pen just to keep him in until you have their housing figured out.


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## NH homesteader

Not stupid. We all have to learn things as we go. She should have been more specific.


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## newton the goat

luvmypets said:


> I totally understand! I know how exciting it is to start out with sheep, Maybe you could make a makeshift pen just to keep him in until you have their housing figured out.


That's what I'm going to do when I get home *sigh* damnit ramsey


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## newton the goat

NH homesteader said:


> Not stupid. We all have to learn things as we go. She should have been more specific.


I was a bit irritated at the one because she wasn't all that specific....and still am


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## newton the goat

newton the goat said:


> I was a bit irritated at the one because she wasn't all that specific....and still am


Crud what am I going to do.... I really don't want sara bred yet .... well we do have a second house in the field well kinda a makeshift one so I guess we can try and set something up as soon as I get home. But idk what will happen between now and 3:40


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## luvmypets

newton the goat said:


> Crud what am I going to do.... I really don't want sara bred yet .... well we do have a second house in the field well kinda a makeshift one so I guess we can try and set something up as soon as I get home. But idk what will happen between now and 3:40


I wouldn't worry as mentioned before, it takes some time for the ram lambs to put two and two together. The instinct is there but they have to actually figure out what they are doing


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## newton the goat

luvmypets said:


> I wouldn't worry


Thank you, I just wish I had known this before hand .... urgh


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## Ponker

My new ram, Casper (Finnsheep) was 4 months old when I got him and 8 months old when he bred 5 ewes. He was not allowed contact with the ewes until breeding time. 

I keep a wether with my little Nigerian buck to keep him happy and calm and I keep two rams for the same reason. A ram by himself can have a hard go of it. Especially if he can see the girls. My ram Holstein paced a 20 foot section of fencline until he killed all the grass and had a hard packed trail. He lost weight and was basically a pathetic mess. And he did that in only a couple of months when he was younger. After he got a pal (a younger ram lamb), he settled down and grazed.


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## luvmypets

newton the goat said:


> Thank you, I just wish I had known this before hand .... urgh


I wouldnt blame the breeder, it may have just been her experience that they dont breed at 4 months. From most of what I've read ram lambs should be seperated from the ewes at three months of age.


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## newton the goat

luvmypets said:


> I wouldnt blame the breeder, it may have just been her experience that they dont breed at 4 months. From most of what I've read ram lambs should be seperated from the ewes at three months of age.


I'm not meaning to blame the breeder. She raises them still on their mothers past the age of 4 months because that's what the buyer wants. What I mean was I wish I had known more when we got him.  I shouldve seen if I could have gotten sara's brother who had been whethered. (I think I spelled that wrong


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## luvmypets

newton the goat said:


> I'm not meaning to blame the breeder. She raises them still on their mothers past the age of 4 months because that's what the buyer wants. What I mean was I wish I had known more when we got him.  I shouldve seen if I could have gotten sara's brother who had been whethered. (I think I spelled that wrong


 maybe you can go back and get him?


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## newton the goat

luvmypets said:


> maybe you can go back and get him?


We drove 6 hours to get our girls going there and back... my dad doesn't want any more road trips for a bit


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## Ponker

Perhaps if you speak to the woman who sold you the ram, she'd be willing to either trade you for a wether or sell you a young wether for a modest price. 

I bought my buck from a breeder who always includes a wether if he's the only male. Cool idea, although I've never encountered this phenomenon with sheep breeders in my limited experience. 

When I first purchased my sheep, I wasn't fully aware of the diseases that could be terrible to deal with. A breeder from upstate New York where I purchased 3 ewes and Casper (my ram), educated me about OPP, Scrapie, and Johne's. I tested my small flock for the Scrapie resistant gene, and OPP and Johne's. At the time, I had two bred Katahdin ewes. Both tested RR for Scrapie resistance and negative for both OPP and Johne's. Many people think all sheep as terminal and don't see the value in testing. My sheep are loving pets just like my goats. Having testing your sheep gives you peace of mind knowing that your investment (both heart and wallet) isn't oing to fall ill with one of these diseases or be spreading it into other acquisitions.


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## newton the goat

Ponker said:


> Perhaps if you speak to the woman who sold you the ram, she'd be willing to either trade you for a wether or sell you a young wether for a modest price.
> 
> I bought my buck from a breeder who always includes a wether if he's the only male. Cool idea, although I've never encountered this phenomenon with sheep breeders in my limited experience.
> 
> When I first purchased my sheep, I wasn't fully aware of the diseases that could be terrible to deal with. A breeder from upstate New York where I purchased 3 ewes and Casper (my ram), educated me about OPP, Scrapie, and Johne's. I tested my small flock for the Scrapie resistant gene, and OPP and Johne's. At the time, I had two bred Katahdin ewes. Both tested RR for Scrapie resistance and negative for both OPP and Johne's. Many people think all sheep as terminal and don't see the value in testing. My sheep are loving pets just like my goats. Having testing your sheep gives you peace of mind knowing that your investment (both heart and wallet) isn't oing to fall ill with one of these diseases or be spreading it into other acquisitions.


Ill talk to her or people around and should the wether be the same breed? I can probably get one from someone else. Our entire flock we had to travel some distance to actually get since there were no breeders in our area.


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## luvmypets

newton the goat said:


> Ill talk to her or people around and should the wether be the same breed? I can probably get one from someone else. Our entire flock we had to travel some distance to actually get since there were no breeders in our area.


Doesn't matter the breed of the wether, if I were you I would get a wooly  Sorry Im a fiber fanatic


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## newton the goat

Lol I would but problem with getting a wooly would be he would need to be sheered which we chose our breed specifically so we didn't have to lol thanks though. It's good to know it doesn't have to be the same breed


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## NH homesteader

I don't know how rams interact with wethers, but if it's anything like goats... Just make sure you don't get a wether that is a significantly smaller breed.


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## newton the goat

NH homesteader said:


> I don't know how rams interact with wethers, but if it's anything like goats... Just make sure you don't get a wether that is a significantly smaller breed.


Yup I'll keep that in mind. Thanks


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## luvmypets

Ah I remember you mentioning that! Im sure you can find a bud for Gordon in your area. Hair sheep seem to be very common no matter where you are.


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## newton the goat

luvmypets said:


> Ah I remember you mentioning that! Im sure you can find a bud for Gordon in your area. Hair sheep seem to be very common no matter where you are.


Just hopefully it's at a price I can afford lol


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## newton the goat

Another day another task... today I have started the taming of the flock. Ramsey is fine with me, but the girls are still wary. 
I started with making sure I was seen as someone who provides them with food. Sara was the first to eat happily the others it took a bit longer 


any advice on taming them? Any will help


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## CntryBoy777

Just time and interaction...even if it is to just stand in the area with them. It lets them get use to seeing you and your smell is associated with your actions. Hold some food in your hand and just wait for them to eat it. Restrain the need to reach out and touch them right now, they will be jumpy at your movement, so move slowly and if they touch you, then begin to scratch or rub lightly. It won't take too long before they will warm-up to ya.


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## newton the goat

CntryBoy777 said:


> Just time and interaction...even if it is to just stand in the area with them. It lets them get use to seeing you and your smell is associated with your actions. Hold some food in your hand and just wait for them to eat it. Restrain the need to reach out and touch them right now, they will be jumpy at your movement, so move slowly and if they touch you, then begin to scratch or rub lightly. It won't take too long before they will warm-up to ya.


I have discovered that Ramsey is weak to butt and back scratches. As I scratch him he starts rubbing him face on my arm or arching his back and wagging his tail. Lol. I was in their she'd with them for 20 minutes today feeding them and watering them, and I made sure I didn't do any sudden movements.... sara is a little piggy though she ate so much before one of the moms pushed her out of the way and the others took over . Just watching them interact is pretty amusing


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## CntryBoy777

When we got our goats they were pasture goats with very little human interaction, so they only associated humans with being "Man-Handled" for maintenance purposes. They brought us Star, the older doe, dragging her from the pasture by her horns. The boys were only 9-10wks old, but had to be captured before being brought out. I went out and cut limbs of leaves and took them to their pen for them to eat. They eventually warmed up to me, and we put them on leads and walked them around each day. The Boys of course warmed up first and got off the leads, but it took Star several months to do so. Now, 1.5 yrs later, she is the sweetest one we have, but is still very skittish to strangers and other animals in the area...even the cats.


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## newton the goat

CntryBoy777 said:


> When we got our goats they were pasture goats with very little human interaction, so they only associated humans with being "Man-Handled" for maintenance purposes. They brought us Star, the older doe, dragging her from the pasture by her horns. The boys were only 9-10wks old, but had to be captured before being brought out. I went out and cut limbs of leaves and took them to their pen for them to eat. They eventually warmed up to me, and we put them on leads and walked them around each day. The Boys of course warmed up first and got off the leads, but it took Star several months to do so. Now, 1.5 yrs later, she is the sweetest one we have, but is still very skittish to strangers and other animals in the area...even the cats.


According to the girls old owner they are some of the sweetest girls in her flock (I regularly stay in contact with her) and would come up and eat out of her hand... the other night when we carried them out of the trailer probably freaked them out a bit since it was new and the owner they used to know is no longer around them... so I have a feeling it's gonna take a bit before they will let me touch them


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## CntryBoy777

It will, they have been uprooted from what they "Knew" and were comfortable with, to new people, surroundings, and smells. Just like if someone came by and took you from your place there and shuffled ya into a whole new area with new people around you. It would take a little while for you to adjust too. Also, with the separation and new surroundings the hierachy of the flock has been disrupted, too and will have to be worked out there.


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## newton the goat

CntryBoy777 said:


> It will, they have been uprooted from what they "Knew" and were comfortable with, to new people, surroundings, and smells. Just like if someone came by and took you from your place there and shuffled ya into a whole new area with new people around you. It would take a little while for you to adjust too. Also, with the separation and new surroundings the hierachy of the flock has been disrupted, too and will have to be worked out there.


Ya I get that it would be a bit unsettling to suddenly be uprooted and put in a new place. I'm glad I got a social group and not just random sheep because the hierarchy is still there besides our ram who is still trying to fit in.


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## luvmypets

Be careful with Ramsey, the cute rubbing his head and gentle nudging can turn/will turn into full blown ramming in the future. Trust me, I learned the hard way, with our first ram(katahdinX) who we allowed to get friendly with us. At first it was a minor inconvienence but as it came to his first birthday it became a major issue, I got hit hard a few times which resulted in bruised bones, and a broken phone. I know you only want the best for him thats why Im giving you a heads up.


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## newton the goat

luvmypets said:


> Be careful with Ramsey, the cute rubbing his head and gentle nudging can turn/will turn into full blown ramming in the future. Trust me, I learned the hard way, with our first ram(katahdinX) who we allowed to get friendly with us. At first it was a minor inconvienence but as it came to his first birthday it became a major issue, I got hit hard a few times which resulted in bruised bones, and a broken phone. I know you only want the best for him thats why Im giving you a heads up.


Yup that's why we are trying to get him used to us as much as possible.. I haven't had him attempt to ram me yet even in a playful manner and I do my best not to touch his face if I'm petting him lol. Any tips on keeping a friendly ram?


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## Mike CHS

We don't play with our rams for the same reason (future butting).

The thing we did that got our sheep comfortable was to go in the pen when we were feeding and just squat down where they were feeding.  We didn't reach for them but let them check us out.  Sheep are curious critters and adjust pretty fast.  We are relatively new to sheep but our sheep went from nearly feral to about as comfortable as you can get without being pets (which we don't want) in two months.  We do want them to be used to touch to save both them and us issues later on.


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## newton the goat

Mike CHS said:


> We don't play with our rams for the same reason (future butting).
> 
> The thing we did that got our sheep comfortable was to go in the pen when we were feeding and just squat down where they were feeding.  We didn't reach for them but let them check us out.  Sheep are curious critters and adjust pretty fast.  We are relatively new to sheep but our sheep went from nearly feral to about as comfortable as you can get without being pets (which we don't want) in two months.  We do want them to be used to touch to save both them and us issues later on.


I am making sure not really to play with him. If he comes up to me I will give him back rubs and scratches but I'm really the only person he will actually come to. So I hope that that doesn't encourage him to head butt


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## Ponker

I have three rams who live together most of the year. They are all friendly. I scratch their necks and clean their wool. Never touch the top of their heads or push on their head to steer them or move them. They're a nice group of gentlemen. I've had them all since they were young. My oldest ram is 2 years old and the youngest will be 1 year old in April. All the same breed.

The ewes are so friendly now but like others mentioned, it took time. Every one of the ewes except one loves attention. I was told to be slow and deliberate in my movements, never reach over their eyes to touch the top of their heads (I can now with no problem but they learned to trust me), don't abruptly touch them when they're unaware. I always talk to them and say their name before touching them when their eyes are not on me. They will come to know their names and each has a personality that you'll come to know. Be patient with them.


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## newton the goat

Ponker said:


> I have three rams who live together most of the year. They are all friendly. I scratch their necks and clean their wool. Never touch the top of their heads or push on their head to steer them or move them. They're a nice group of gentlemen. I've had them all since they were young. My oldest ram is 2 years old and the youngest will be 1 year old in April. All the same breed.
> 
> The ewes are so friendly now but like others mentioned, it took time. Every one of the ewes except one loves attention. I was told to be slow and deliberate in my movements, never reach over their eyes to touch the top of their heads (I can now with no problem but they learned to trust me), don't abruptly touch them when they're unaware. I always talk to them and say their name before touching them when their eyes are not on me. They will come to know their names and each has a personality that you'll come to know. Be patient with them.


One of my girls lambs Lily as I call her since she is pure white except for a brown smudge on her neck, ran up to me this morning and greeted me at the gate .... if I didn't have any self control I would have reached down right then and there to pet her. But anyways it's awesome! And Ramsey is starting to be accepted into the group a but better


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## newton the goat

I'm afraid I may have ruined it with one of the babies.... I was in the shed cleaning up and the others came in to see what I was up to. So I quickly finished what I was doing and got up to leave only to come face to face with a baby coming in the door (she accidentally slammed into me) and she ran away screaming for her mom.... I swear if sheep had expressions momma would be rolling her eyes as she called her baby back. Lol


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## purplequeenvt

Relax. You haven't ruined anything. Just keep feeding them and they will warm up to you. It takes time, but there is nothing wrong with reaching out and trying to touch them. In fact, try sitting on a bucket in their pen with a little grain. Getting down to their level and wiggling your fingers at them often lures them in too.


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## newton the goat

purplequeenvt said:


> Relax. You haven't ruined anything. Just keep feeding them and they will warm up to you. It takes time, but there is nothing wrong with reaching out and trying to touch them. In fact, try sitting on a bucket in their pen with a little grain. Getting down to their level and wiggling your fingers at them often lures them in too.


I've tried getting down to their level and wiggling my fingers lol they just look at me like I'm crazy and go back to grazing. I have put their food dish in front of me and sat down and read a book. One of the lambs came up and sniffed me the started eating so I guess that's a start.


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## newton the goat

It's finally working!!! Yay!



 
I finally got a picture of little maybel, lily's younger twin sister.
I just sat down where they were grazing today, and they steadily came over to me willingly!


 
I didn't expect them to come so close so quickly! Yay


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## Bruce

See? Turning 18 HAS aged you, now old and wise enough to be patient


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## Baymule

You have a nice flock. I love the name Gordon RAMsey!  Don't try to be his friend too much. I got my first ram last summer, he was 9 months old. He ate out of my hand, I was thrilled. He loved scratches under his chin, I was delighted. I was careful not to rub his head.

The problem started when I stopped scratching or ran out of feed. He wanted MORE. More attention, more feed, NOW. My mistake. He tagged me a few times and I whipped a plastic grocery bag out of my pocket, waved it at him and yelled. He ran away. He half way reared up a month ago in preparation to ram me and I quickly slapped him across his nose and ran at him. He ran away. With animals, in their language, the one who moves their feet is the loser. If you run or back up, you are the loser. So my mistake was getting too cuddly with him, because those balls drop, get bigger and the hormones kick in. Now we just give each other the "eye" and I never turn my back on him.

It is good to have your ram fear you just enough to recognize that you are the leader. That little bit of fear is respect. If RAMsey starts getting RAMbunctious (sorry, I just had to ) Make him move his feet. Make friends with your ewes, make your ram respect you.


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## newton the goat

Baymule said:


> You have a nice flock. I love the name Gordon RAMsey!  Don't try to be his friend too much. I got my first ram last summer, he was 9 months old. He ate out of my hand, I was thrilled. He loved scratches under his chin, I was delighted. I was careful not to rub his head.
> 
> The problem started when I stopped scratching or ran out of feed. He wanted MORE. More attention, more feed, NOW. My mistake. He tagged me a few times and I whipped a plastic grocery bag out of my pocket, waved it at him and yelled. He ran away. He half way reared up a month ago in preparation to ram me and I quickly slapped him across his nose and ran at him. He ran away. With animals, in their language, the one who moves their feet is the loser. If you run or back up, you are the loser. So my mistake was getting too cuddly with him, because those balls drop, get bigger and the hormones kick in. Now we just give each other the "eye" and I never turn my back on him.
> 
> It is good to have your ram fear you just enough to recognize that you are the leader. That little bit of fear is respect. If RAMsey starts getting RAMbunctious (sorry, I just had to ) Make him move his feet. Make friends with your ewes, make your ram respect you.


Lol im glad the name is liked. I couldnt stop giggling even before i got him since i had five names that in my opinion were funny and didnt know which one would stick once he was chosen.. im glad gordon ramsay stuck lmfao!!!!!He's at the age where he is still scared of everything and quite shy. I have made sure not to suprise him and made my presence somewhat of a norm. I will not touch his head only his back at this moment lol. 

If I have a hand full of sweet feed everyone is my friend (besides sara ARGH )
Both molly and Jenny (the moms) have approached and eaten quite happily out of my hand while sara still doesn't dare approach me..... makes me sad because she is the sheep I want most to like me since I bought her with my own money .... well I guess she's one of those that will take more time and convincing especially after the bucket incedent .

I starting to think tonight is going to be a rough night.... lightening and thunder are very bright and VERY loud and I can hear the coyotes "talking" ......how much you wanna bet that the doe code kicks in with Newton tonight? This is gonna be fun


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## newton the goat

Looking at the pics again.... Jenny and molly need to put on a bit of weight... their girls nursing for that long was pretty rough on them weight wise. I'm glad we have farmer friends around the area that say they will let them graze away from the herd if needed. Or is the way they look normal?


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## Baymule

Do you have Livestock Guard Dogs?

My most flighty, bounce off the wire fence trying to get away from me, ewe, became my best friend right before she had twin lambs. She not only allowed, but wanted me to rub her belly and scratch her back. She ate from my hand where before she acted like I was offering her poison. So don't give up on Sara.


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## newton the goat

We don't we may b


Baymule said:


> Do you have Livestock Guard Dogs?
> 
> My most flighty, bounce off the wire fence trying to get away from me, ewe, became my best friend right before she had twin lambs. She not only allowed, but wanted me to rub her belly and scratch her back. She ate from my hand where before she acted like I was offering her poison. So don't give up on Sara.


We don't have a dog but we may be getting a donkey soon. Plus our sheep are locked up at night nothing can get them in their house. We have wood wedged against the already shut door as a precaution.

I hope sara ends up being the same way. She is a really beautiful girl in my opinion with a fun personality..... my dad even agrees that she was the right sheep to get.just she is shy around me.....


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## newton the goat

Little Lily mabels twin



It still bothers me how thin molly looks. We will be putting them in a seperate field once we have it set up. And I'm wondering if I should give them a higher fat feed just to get some weight back on them ... Jenny isnt as Bad Since she only had a single


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## Ponker

I agree that they could use a little nutrition. Do you offer them any loose minerals (specifically for sheep)? How about hay? When my girls are lactating, I give them some grain and good alfalfa hay. They keep their weight. Also, check the results of the fecal for any worm loads that may need addressed.

Your sheep are beautiful. You're a conscientious shepherdess.


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## newton the goat

Ponker said:


> I agree that they could use a little nutrition. Do you offer them any loose minerals (specifically for sheep)? How about hay? When my girls are lactating, I give them some grain and good alfalfa hay. They keep their weight. Also, check the results of the fecal for any worm loads that may need addressed.
> 
> Your sheep are beautiful. You're a conscientious shepherdess.


Thanks we make sure they have all the nutrition they need
 They have all around the clock access to a sheep feed that has minerals in it and we mix it with sweet feed and a bit of local corn. What brand of loose minerals would you suggest I get for later on? We also make sure that their hay net is always full and they have lots of grass to graze on since our pasture is starting to turn green again


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## newton the goat

They just got all their vaccinations, the lady we bought them from made sure to do it the day we came so everything is up to date. I checked their poop just in case and everything seems all good. And thanks so far I feel very happy with my flock


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## luvmypets

You need to see the poop under a microscope to see any problems. Just looking at it won't show you possible eggs that could be in there.  

For minerals I use Dumor Sheep Mineral, its 20$ at TSC.


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## Baymule

I use Dumor sheep mineral too. I also offer them Azomite mineral rock dust and dolomite lime.


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## norseofcourse

I was using MoorMan's sheep mineral, but recently switched to Fertrell.  Haven't used it long enough to see if there's any difference.


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## newton the goat

Ok thank I'll let my dad know and we will go pick some up. Btw question... all of you ( or atleast most )of you have large dogs right? My aunt recently bought a cane Corso black lab mix.... she is twelve weeks and the other day when I was in the sheep pen she got in there and attempted to "play" with ramsay, consisting of pulling at his coat and nipping at the other lambs legs ( I imeadiatly stopped her and corrected her and then took her out of the pen) I checked over all of them the are alright.. ramsay was a bit shaken but otherwise seemed fine after cuddling with the other lambs, and the girls had no damage done no blood drawn or anything. But still pippy (the puppy ) is obsessed and no matter what I say or do tries to go through the fence at the sheep and has become quite mischievous. .. once she gets bigger I'm afraid of the damage she can cause the flock if she gets in! What do I do? No matter the training she always ignores us when it comes to the chickens and sheep, our docile rooster actually attempted to spur her the other day because she was going after the hens (my cousin keeps letting her out and leaving her unattended )


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## luvmypets

We have a border collie/aussie shepherd mix and he has been trained to respect our animals. He knows not to mindlessly chase them and he has taught himself how to herd the stragglers in at night. I think you really need to work with your dog. You say shes a puppy and is stubborn? You need her to learn to respect the sheep. You really dont want her chasing them and stressing them out.


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## NH homesteader

I think you should talk to your dad and/or your aunt, I don't know your relationship with her. That dog can NOT be allowed in the fence behaving like that. It scares me that someone has a Cane Corso and does not know how to handle it. That is a potentially dangerous dog that may well kill your sheep if they do not train it. Sorry for my bluntness. Sheep and goats do not handle stress well, they are prey animals. I don't know whose property the animals are on, I suppose that makes a difference in your approach.

@Southern by choice


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## newton the goat

That's exactly my issue, my dad and I are trying our best to discipline her and teach her properly. Bit it's difficult since she isn't always on the farm but I will make sure to work with her then.


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## newton the goat

NH homesteader said:


> I think you should talk to your dad and/or your aunt, I don't know your relationship with her. That dog can NOT be allowed in the fence behaving like that. It scares me that someone has a Cane Corso and does not know how to handle it. That is a potentially dangerous dog that may well kill your sheep if they do not train it. Sorry for my bluntness. Sheep and goats do not handle stress well, they are prey animals. I don't know whose property the animals are on, I suppose that makes a difference in your approach.
> 
> @Southern by choice


My dad and i have had cane Corso mixes before and they were the most well trained dogs we had, but that's because we had full control of them 24/7. I haven't let her in the fence since and made sure she has stayed away from that area. I wish she was with my dad and I because we would be able to train her more. Right now she isn't getting much discipline in my opinion at home so dad and I are doing all we can when ever she is here.... and ya I know sheep stress easily that's why I've been trying so hard to keep her away from the sheep and the chickens. I know she is attempting to play but she can't with these animals...I agree with you completely that someone who does not know how to handle a cane Corso even a cross shouldn't have one, when my aunt told us I attempted to change her mind but she had already put a down payment on it. I have made sure to block off the opening where she got in and I regularly check the fence for holes to make sure she can't get in. How would you suggest we train her with the sheep? Because at this moment the only idea I have is leash training.... and the sheep are on my grandparents property and we live with them...but my aunt regularly visits during the week for family meals and brings pippy with her...


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## Mike CHS

You are going to have a hard time training that dog since it's only around you part time but I know you already know that.  

We have herd dogs but even they are NEVER allowed in with the sheep unless we are working them.  Other than that they aren't even allowed at the fence line unless we call them to hold the sheep in place.


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## newton the goat

Mike CHS said:


> You are going to have a hard time training that dog since it's only around you part time but I know you already know that.
> 
> We have herd dogs but even they are NEVER allowed in with the sheep unless we are working them.  Other than that they aren't even allowed at the fence line unless we call them to hold the sheep in place.


I have two small dogs all of which the sheep are fine with but that's because they have been trained not to chase the animals and one only goes in with me because the other is not a fan of larger animals and stays away from them. My dog when she is in with me will make sure not to go to close to the sheep, and if she wants to go closer for any reason will look to me for aproval first. Both of them are very well behaved around the animals and do not scare them any more thankfully, but pippy is a whole other issue..they are never in without me.


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## NH homesteader

Yeah I wouldn't allow the dog in with the sheep... Hoping SBC will come offer her thoughts, but yes she at least needs to be on a leash if she is able to get in with them. It's a hard situation because it isn't your or your dad's property, so you don't have as much "authority". It would be great if you could try to work with her, but like Mike said, it'll only do so much


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## Bruce

At 12 weeks that dog has a LOT of growing up to do. I wouldn't allow her to even be where she can see the other animals unless you have her on a leash and (as you are already doing) not in with them at all. If she is at the fence line she will stress them out trying to get inside. When you have her on the leash at the fence line, you can work on training. I know that isn't news to you but it sounds like your Aunt and cousin need as much training as the dog. I can't imagine how hard it will be to train the dog to ignore the stock if she is only there occasionally.


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## Baymule

Might as well skip ahead of where this sounds like it is going. I don't mean to hurt your feelings or make you mad, but I kinda skip the beating around the bush and get right down to it. Will your aunt pay you for the sheep or chickens her dog kills? Your Dad might want to ask her that question. She has no control over the dog, so it is not right for her to bring it to where you have prey animals that she is showing signs of wanting to "play" with. And "playing" with sheep or chickens still means dead.


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## newton the goat

Baymule said:


> Might as well skip ahead of where this sounds like it is going. I don't mean to hurt your feelings or make you mad, but I kinda skip the beating around the bush and get right down to it. Will your aunt pay you for the sheep or chickens her dog kills? Your Dad might want to ask her that question. She has no control over the dog, so it is not right for her to bring it to where you have prey animals that she is showing signs of wanting to "play" with. And "playing" with sheep or chickens still means dead.


THANK YOU! that is my point!!! I do not want to lose sara Lily or any of my sheep or my beloved hens! The first time she ever met my americaunas she took a clump of feathers out of angel's behind and I got angry at her and told her to keep the dog away from my hens.... like train the dog to listen before she is allowed anywhere near my animals! It's so frustrating! I am doing my best to work with her in the small amount of time i have with her but it won't work unless the training is constant!


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## Baymule

Before a family fight gets started with lots of hard feelings, these issues need to be addressed. Your animals have the right of residence, the dog is a visitor. What do your grand parents think of it and would they back you and your Dad up if ya'll don't want the dog to come "visit"? After you have dead sheep or chickens, it will be a little late.

Another thing, it is NOT your responsibility to train this dog. If the dog does not mind or behave, puppy or not, it should be left at home. It amazes me how many people who think other peoples animals aren't important, especially chickens.


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## Mike CHS

newton - I wouldn't be real optimistic on training that dog. Your best bet is just to make sure your fence is strong.  They can do an amazing amount of damage to sheep in very little time.  It took us almost a year of working with our Border Collie (with sheep) to get him to not lunge (and bite) sheep that he thought was getting away.  It's a natural action for many dogs and in our case we are able to 'read' the dog and able to stop it.

I'm supporting you by the way and know that you are doing all you can.


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## newton the goat

I get that there isn't much optimism but it's hard not to.... other than chasing the animals she's a good dog... just she goes home at night to my three cousins and all my training gets undone... and I know it's not my job but I refuse to have a badly behaving dog in my family....if she is going to visit I expect her to behave and be respectful of my animals. .. they come first over everything.... if she can't behave then I don't know what my aunt is going to do because she can't be left alone at home because she will have accidents.... and between home schooling and raising my cousins (ages 9,8, and 5 ) and making sure they don't fight.... training a dog.... you get what I'm saying. I sometimes wish we could just hold onto her for a week even that would make a difference in her training.

@Mike CHS thanks for the support.


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## NH homesteader

Can you put up a run or a small pen for her so she's physically separate?


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## newton the goat

NH homesteader said:


> Can you put up a run or a small pen for her so she's physically separate?


We can try that, though I will have to enforce it with my cousins.... hope it will work in the end. Thanks for the idea


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## Bruce

And enforcing on 5,8 & 9 Y/O kids is pretty hard, they have short attention spans for such things. Likely just open the door to go out and the dog scoots out too.


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## newton the goat

So I was out taking care of the sheep tonight with my dad, and as usual the girls moved slightly away but to my suprise Gordon did a little hop skip and a jump in my direction; then stood there beside me And he waited patiently for scratches!! I seriously love this little lamb!! He is so loveable and cute and happily greets me everytime I come in


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## Gorman Farm

newton the goat said:


> And plus we requested that one or two girls with "experience" get thrown in so we won't have too much worries with them our first time in the birthing scene. Lol, and that's why I was wondering what I should look for. She is a nice woman and I don't think she will screw us over hopefully, she knows I'm a first time owner and has also been giving me tips and such oh raising the breed. And I'm sorry to hear about your terrible time with the ewe she sounds horrible
> What size should a katahdin ram be if he was born in December now?


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## Gorman Farm

I was looking to see what pics of ram lambs I had on my computer, and I only found these.

1 wk old Katahdin ram lambs



 


5 mo old Katahdin ram 




Hope this helps you


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## newton the goat

Gorman Farm said:


> I was looking to see what pics of ram lambs I had on my computer, and I only found these.
> 
> 1 wk old Katahdin ram lambs
> View attachment 29024
> 
> 
> 5 mo old Katahdin ram
> View attachment 29023
> 
> Hope this helps you


This is the most recent photo I have of my little boy does he look good? He was born December 17


 

 
He still has his winter coat and the pics aren't the best sorry lol


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## Bruce

What the heck are you doing with visible green grass this time of year??


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## newton the goat

Bruce said:


> What the heck are you doing with visible green grass this time of year??


It's called Canada, as soon as the snow melts our grass is back in a week lol


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## Bruce

Hmm, we should move 

We actually have that too. Still green when the cold comes so it stays green. But I think the alpacas ate everything green they could find so only brown (covered with about 2.5 cm of snow last night) out in their area. Doesn't stop them from looking though. The grass won't start growing again for 2 more months.


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## newton the goat

Bruce said:


> Hmm, we should move
> 
> We actually have that too. Still green when the cold comes so it stays green. But I think the alpacas ate everything green they could find so only brown (covered with about 2.5 cm of snow last night) out in their area. Doesn't stop them from looking though. The grass won't start growing again for 2 more months.


Lol ours grows extremely quickly lol


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## Bruce

So does ours, once it starts!


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## newton the goat

I just got my camera back!
Ramsey! He's grown so much!!




Jenny



Lily!



Someone found a good place to scratch his back XD 


Sara!



 sara! too close sara....


They kept trying to eat my camera.... mabel actually licked the lense 


Well I'm happy to say that my flock is happy and growing well 

Family photo 



Mama's


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## Latestarter

Hey, they look great! Thanks for sharing!


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## newton the goat

No problem! I'm proud of my flock so far


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## Bruce

Very nice @newton the goat!  I guess you must have cleaned the lens after Mabel licked it.


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## newton the goat

Lmfao ya kinda had too, there was grass goop all over it after she licked it  and then she licked my face .... so ewww


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## newton the goat

I'm happy how lily's face is already shaping up to be like her mother's!  Mabel is close but not as shaped yet. And josie is still a little triangular in the snout but hopefully should be on her way soon. Im a little curious about ramsey though, Since he is four months (or almost now), looking at @Gorman Farm five month old, I realize he is nowhere close to the same size or head shape or probably even weight. Do they grow quickly at this stage? Or is he a bit behind on the growth scale?


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## Gorman Farm

newton the goat said:


> This is the most recent photo I have of my little boy does he look good? He was born December 17
> View attachment 29027 View attachment 29028
> He still has his winter coat and the pics aren't the best sorry lol



Yes he looks fat and happy......congrats!


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## newton the goat

Gorman Farm said:


> Yes he looks fat and happy......congrats!


He does have a bit of weight he could lose lol 
I'm glad he looks happy to you


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## Bruce

newton the goat said:


> Lmfao ya kinda had too, there was grass goop all over it after she licked it  and then she licked my face .... so ewww



I should say!


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## newton the goat

Bruce said:


> I should say!


Lol im slowly discovering each individual personality of my sheep... lol the ones I've seen so far are pretty amusing.... but still the grass goop grosses me out lol


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## Baymule

You have a beautiful flock. I love them.


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## newton the goat

Thank you! I'm glad you think so!


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## Gorman Farm

newton the goat said:


> He does have a bit of weight he could lose lol
> I'm glad he looks happy to you



I didn't mean that in a negative way...his weight is fine..I meant it in a complimentary way..


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## newton the goat

Gorman Farm said:


> I didn't mean that in a negative way...his weight is fine..I meant it in a complimentary way..


then I shall take that compliment happily lol, I never expected a ram to be so sweet and am glad I chose him


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