# Complected way to ask about Ivomec and a general OMG (long post)



## Calliopia (Jul 15, 2010)

So our local TSC is now carrying ivermectin in a sheep drench which is a .08% solution instead of a 1%.   Does anybody have any experience with this?  Is it in a better carrier to use orally vs using an injected medication off use.   

I realize that both are 'off use' as one is for sheep and the other for goats.  Just wondering if anyone has used both with one having better success.    

My guy freakin HATES the taste of the injection stuff and I have to mix it w/ nutridrench or he thrashes and foams at the mouth and screams.  (again, this boy is ALL Nubian and PURE drama queen ) 


The reason I am asking is that we had what we thought was lung worm going through the herd.  Treating w/ Ivomec didn't seem to do anything.  Switched locations and hay in case it was environmental.  Nothing, still coughing. Nobody was temping or lethargic though so the vet still wasn't thinking pneumonia.  Suggested that it might have been an environmental cause that was lingering a while.   

A friend lost their farm to foreclosure and we took in 2 of their goats. Nice healthy, nothing wrong with them. 1 immediately went elsewhere to be a companion for a doe that was going to have her bucklings pulled soon and she's doing fine.  The one that stayed w/ me has started coughing.  Crap!   What ever it is moved with us and is contagious.   (Wouldn't have introduced the doe but it was a perfect storm. Owner in tears, (Please don't send them to auction), County installing a sewer line so the fence is down so everybody is cooped up in a temp electric pen, nowhere else to put her and I get her the 2 days before the bank sale.  It's always an adventure.  

I called our vet and he suggested antibiotics in case it was something contagious but not terribly virile since these guys weren't temping.  I said I want Draxxin since I can't dose one of my does twice a day. She's a rescue and I'm lucky if I can catch her for her hoof trimming.    I dosed everybody w/ Draxxin and did the bose shots and B for my two that had a hard winter and are still not in the best condition  -  Older Nubians and one was bred hard before I got her and then was kicked in the head by a horse this year. Oy. 

So... rounded up everybody including the hermit and while I have em all in lock down I'm doing the once over.  The OLD Nubian is anemic. CRAP!  Now I'm back to lungworm?    I'm afraid I'm going to have to just load her up and bring her in for a full on physical but I'm also afraid I was underdosing the ivomec since I was doing it at twice the dosage instead of 4 times.   

Keeping them all on Draxxin because well, I just dosed last night and there's not much to do about it and I figure it won't hurt anyway. If there is a secondary infection it should help. 

 The hermit, my boy and the new doe are FINE except for the cough. Healthy, shiny coats, lovely.  

The two older nubians are a mess. Ragged coats, coughing like crazy, but good appetites and temperament. No temperatures either. Maybe mildly elevated but still in normal. It depends on what time of day I get them.  

So I'm thinking: Stick w/ the Draxxin.  Hit again this week (today) w/ a doubled ivomec dosage and B and Red Cell.   Then maybe Mon - Wed of next week depending on how they are doing do a tripled dosage and keep up w/ B and Red Cell.  Then the week after do a quadrupled dose.   

Am I insane?   Do I need to just smack them down w/ a HUGE dose?  Everybody has a chance of being bred due to this fence thing that has gone on longer than I wanted so Valbazan is out.   I was also going to throw Safeguard in the mix and see if that helps.  Right now I feel like I'm peeing into the ocean and expecting to see green.  And my vet means well but doesn't have goats and I've had my guys since Novemeber of last year.    I got the old one through a fractured face though so I can't be doing too badly (L). 

Anyway... enough ranting on.  Any suggestions?


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## ksalvagno (Jul 15, 2010)

You could have mycoplasma going through your herd. The Draxxin will take care of it but mycoplasma is usually permanently in the herd and you will have coughing once in a while. Do the Draxxin for at least 2 doses.

You should always dose dewormers at the proper amount. Otherwise you are just building resistance to that dewormer. I would also stick with the 1% solution. I don't think I would keep upping the dose of Ivomec. You may not have lungworm and you would just be building resistance.

Have you had a fecal done on your goats and checked for all the different parasites? Doing a fecal on your worst cases probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

Also, sounds good on the B and red cell. 

It sounds like you are really trying hard here and I hope you get things cleared up.


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## Calliopia (Jul 15, 2010)

The reason for slowly upping the dose was for a slower kill off.  Really the only reason. 

But that gets into the kill all now vs kill slowly debate which is its own can of worms. So to speak. 


I am waiting on the results but the vet is short staffed this week. Should get a call today or tomorrow. I dropped of samples from the 2 older girls.. um, today is Thursday so it was Tuesday night.  This week is a blur.   Did I mention we're in the middle of moving? 

I swear I will eventually learn how to do my own fecals.


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## Roll farms (Jul 15, 2010)

Lung worms take a different kind of 'float' w/ a fecal, and believe it or not, not all vets 'know' that...or maybe don't want to be bothered...?

The sheep drench takes more than the injectable, and I like using as little as possible.

Don't triple your ivomec dosage...if it doesn't work at the prescribed dose or doubled, then you either need to try a different wormer or have a float done to see if that's even the problem. JMHO...


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## Calliopia (Jul 15, 2010)

The double and triple I was talking about were from 1cc per 100lbs to 2cc per 100lbs. 
Upping the labeled cattle dosage not the off label "goat" dosage.


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## Roll farms (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm not surprised that 1cc per 100# didn't get rid of the lung worm...if that's what it is.

I use 1 cc per 25-30#.

Under dosing creates 'super worms'...the ones not killed build resistance and get stronger...so it takes more and more dewormer to kill any...


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## ()relics (Jul 15, 2010)

I use the .08% sheep drench at the dose rate of 3cc per 18#.....orally of course....take that for what its worth....every situation is different...I keep a close record of my goats FAMACHA scores and deworm as needed on an individual animal basis...


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## Calliopia (Jul 25, 2010)

So, my fecal came to nothing because something was processed incorrectly/sample lost/some garbage answer. I have to bring another one in.  I'll make sure they specifically look for lung worm though. 

 Has anyone ever had a bad reaction to Draxxin?  My buck, who is sensitive to a bunch of stuff and I won't be using him next year, had a funny reaction.  Everyone else got their dose in stride.  He started thrashing, foaming, flipping his head around and generally being dramatic.  2 days later he developed a sore at the site and it was swollen.  That went away and I skipped him for the second dose per the vet's recommendation.  

The vet suggested that if he's still coughing we'll put him on a different antibiotic since he was doing the best of everybody, but to wait and see how/if everyone clears up.    

They all also got dosed w/ ivermectin @ 1cc/25#.  Eyes are pinking back up and they seem to be doing better.  

Yesterday though place where he got his injection a week and a half ago is now a huge stripe of a hot spot.  I'm ok w/ managing the spot, that's not my worry, but has anyone seen this type of reaction to Draxxin?  He was injected the same as everyone else at the same dosage of 1.1 per 100#.


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## ksalvagno (Jul 25, 2010)

I had to use Draxxin for my herd but had no reactions. It could be that your particular buck is just more sensitive. Some animals are just like that. Probably good that you won't be using him anymore. That may be something he could pass along.


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## Calliopia (Jul 26, 2010)

It is because of these sensitivities that I am not using him next year. Otherwise I would do 1 year of rebreeding and then sell him. He is LOVELY in every other regard in my opinion.  Super personality, gentle w/ the other goats even when in rut, nice body and he's maturing beautifully.  Sigh.   And he's BEAUTIFUL.  

But there are too many boys in the world to keep a potential genetic problem child.


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