# Chronic clumpy poop; brainstorming session needed



## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 22, 2010)

I have a 2 year old Nubian doe who came home on 3/8.  She's had clumpy poop since the day she came home with the exception of just a few days when it seemed to be clearing up.  I haven't been able to resolve the issue so far!

Here's some background info:  She kidded in January and lost the kid to the cold.  She lost a lot of weight because she apparently called for the kid for two weeks and barely ate.  She's also at the absolute bottom of the pecking order so she was pretty lean when we picked her up.  Not emaciated, these goats are well cared for, just lacking condition.  Also, she was exposed to a buck so there's a chance she's bred.

We've done two things since we brought her home:
1) Deworming.  She's been wormed approximately every 10 days with Ivomec pour-on given orally since she got here.

2) Increase her grain ration.  This girl eats a TON of grain because we're trying to put some weight on her.  We didn't see much change until about 2 weeks ago when she suddenly started gaining rapidly.  She also gets BOSS daily in addition to free choice hay and loose mineral.  She does get some fresh grass, but not much.  On a day where I gave them quite a bit she went from clumps to full-on green scours for about 6 hours then back to clumps.  Since then I've been more careful about moderating.

The two causes I initially suspected were parasites and the increase in her grain.  It just seems like if those were the causes it might have resolved itself by now.  I'm hoping someone might confirm these suspicions and/or offer some other possibilities to look into.  I wormed her again today with Ivomec, but am considering trying another wormer next time.

Just to be specific ( I hope this is actually relevant and not TMI ) when I say clumpy I mean that it's basically just one round pellet.  It's not that the pellets are formed but sticking together, it's just one big clump.  It's also dry enough that we don't have a cow pie effect, it hits the ground and remains a large, round clump.

Any thoughts from the experts?


----------



## ksalvagno (Apr 22, 2010)

Ivomec doesn't get all the parasites. It is really important to have a fecal done and have them test for coccidia too. You specifically have to ask for coccidia to be checked. If the normal fecal tests come back clean, you can always have fecal tests run for crypto and giarrdia. Those are each a separate test.

I recently had a couple of my alpacas tested. One girl came back with 4 different types of worms. Ivomec wasn't the dewormer of choice for any of them. Her stool was normal too. I was having them tested because they were going to go to another farm for breeding.

If she has been compromised, I'm sure any change in diet can affect her too. It sounds like you are being careful with the fresh grass but you may have to be extra careful with this girl.

I still wouldn't be surprised if she has coccidia. Springtime is a major time for coccidia. At least in my area.


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 22, 2010)

I was thinking about giving her some DiMethox but didn't because I was thinking it wasn't a major problem with adults.  Plus I need to check that it's safe for pregnant does.  Do you suggest coccidia as a possibility because the stress of losing her kid and then moving might have comprised her immune system or should I be making coccidiostats a routine part of my parasite management with adults?  The kids are already getting it.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Apr 22, 2010)

I'd stop deworming her every 10 days.  Do a fecal. It's cheap and gives answers.  

How much is "a ton" of grain?  And is she eating a good bit of hay?


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 22, 2010)

The worming every 10 days was only because she just came here from another farm.  The rest of the herd doesn't get wormed that often.  Isn't that typically protocol when you bring home a new goat?

She's getting probably 8-10 (measuring) cups per day.  Yes, she's eating her hay very well.


----------



## ksalvagno (Apr 22, 2010)

Coccidia can be a problem with adults as well as kids. But you really have to be careful about giving dewormers too often. The parasites will become immune to it and then you are in trouble. I would do fecals before you deworm and only worm for what they have. That is what I do.

Coccidia is right in your soil and a wet spring can really bring it out. My alpacas have coccidia every spring and I have to treat them. And these are all adult alpacas. If your female has been through a lot, that makes her even more susceptible to any type of parasite but coccidia especially. 

Especially since you have been deworming this girl a lot, I would definitely do a fecal before I did anything else. I would probably also give her some type of probiotics daily for  at least a week if not more. Probiotics are safe to give everyday. You may not need to give it everyday but you can. Since you are having problems, then extra probiotics sure wouldn't hurt this girl.

You may even want to have the fecal sent out somewhere. My alpaca vet doesn't do her own fecals anymore and sends them off to the state lab. They really do a good job and test for a few more parasites than your average vet does. Just recently my one alpaca came back with one Emac egg. Emac is coccidia on steroids. A whole different drug has to be used for that so I was glad I caught it early and could get her cleared up right away before she ended up with major health problems.


----------



## ()relics (Apr 22, 2010)

If it was me....I would completely cut all the feed concentrate from her diet.  I would give her all the  lower quality grass hay she wanted.  Access to free choice minerals and plenty of fresh water.  That is it...You have tried so many things in a relatively short period of time.  You have to give things a chance to work.  Added hay/roughage will help to stabilize her digestive system and encourage her rumen to work.  The worm issue should be covered with your Ivo treatments so put that stuff away for a couple of months.  Limit her fresh grass intake to eliminate that potential issue.  With her diet as mostly hay her manure output should normalize.Compare her eyelids to a FAMACHA chart, if she is anemic, which she probably is, give her an iron supplement ...Then after a week or so start her on a very small amount of pelleted feed with a decox or rumensin additive just in case there may be a coccidiosis issue.  Increase her feed concentrate until you feel she is at the body condition score both you and she is comfortable with...This can be done as long as she is able to stay in fair body condition...if she begins to slip or weakens then there may be other unaddressed issues....but what do I know


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 22, 2010)

That sounds reasonable to me.  Thanks for the input folks!


----------

