# Questions about raising bummer lambs



## Goat Whisperer (Jul 14, 2015)

Yep, I'm posting in the sheep section 

I am throwing the idea around of raising 2 bummer lambs for the freezer. We may freshen as many as 10 does come 2016. We should have lots of MILK! I am not a complete newbie to sheep, a family member had 2 jacob sheep so I do know a little bit about sheep. I will NOT keep any sheep/lambs with my goats so they will have to be off site but will be able to check/feed them several times a day. 

Here are my questions-

I know sheep milk has more fat than goat milk. The goats I have a good amount for fat, nut not as much as sheep. Will the lambs need more goat milk then they would sheep milk?

How much milk do they start to drink when first born? What is the max a lamb will drink before weaning? 1 gal a day?

How often do you feed them? (milk) 

I am not doing heatlamps... How will they do if I get a day old lamb in February? I can get a dog coat but I would rather do nothing. 

It seems like pneumonia is a huge problem in lambs, of course this is reading on forums where people always post their problems. It also seems like sheep are always trying to kill themselves..... 
What is the reality?

The jacobs lived completely off the land, will I have to grain and hay them? I know they will grow bigger with grain but do they REALLY need it? 

If they do need grain, how much? 1/4lb, 1/2lb, 1lb daily?

When do you slaughter? Age or by weight? 

How much does a bummer lamb sell for? I know the price will be vary be region so it wont be exact.

The breed of sheep will probably be katahdin or a katahdin cross. Seems like we have a bunch of them around here.


I'm sure I will have more questions later.

TIA!


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## Latestarter (Jul 14, 2015)

Have seen the term before... What exactly is a "bummer" lamb?
"


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 14, 2015)

I have heard many call lambs that a ewe rejected a bummer lamb.... Maybe I don't have that term right 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





(sheeples correct me if I'm wrong!)


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## ohiogoatgirl (Jul 15, 2015)

I have herd 'bummer' in relation to orphaned/rejected calves, lambs, goats,... so that's what I call em.


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## promiseacres (Jul 15, 2015)

Lambs need fed 3-4 times a day until about 1 to 2 weeks I use a bucket system from premier1,  I filled it with their daily amount with a ice pack in it. They drank 20 to 30 Oz daily, I kept hay available and offered grain at 3-4 weeks. I would keep in a crate somewhere warm until 2-3 weeks if you're wanting February lambs. Katahidin bummer lambs prices I have seen are $ 75-125. Since you have goats it MAY be somewhat cost effective but time intensive. Probably worth paying an average of $150 to buy a weaned lamb then raise. My sheep are smaller so I don't process until 13-15 months. But many meat people's goal is 5 months.  Hope this helps.


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## purplequeenvt (Jul 15, 2015)

I am throwing the idea around of raising 2 bummer lambs for the freezer. We may freshen as many as 10 does come 2016. We should have lots of MILK! I am not a complete newbie to sheep, a family member had 2 jacob sheep so I do know a little bit about sheep. I will NOT keep any sheep/lambs with my goats so they will have to be off site but will be able to check/feed them several times a day. 

Here are my questions-

*I know sheep milk has more fat than goat milk. The goats I have a good amount for fat, nut not as much as sheep. Will the lambs need more goat milk then they would sheep milk?
*
They should do perfectly fine on your goats milk. Goats milk is considered by a lot of people to be the universal milk replacer.

*How much milk do they start to drink when first born? What is the max a lamb will drink before weaning? 1 gal a day?*

*How often do you feed them? (milk) *

I like to feed newborns smaller amounts more frequently. They'll drink a few ounces at a time for the first week and then up to 16 oz 3 times a day. Once they are 6 weeks old, I generally reduce them to 2 bottles a day.

*I am not doing heatlamps... How will they do if I get a day old lamb in February? I can get a dog coat but I would rather do nothing. 
*
Depends on how cold it is. We are in VT and we rarely do coats. We use heat lamps in the lambing jugs for the first 2 or 3 days if it is really cold. Once they are loose in the barn, they don't usually get any extra heat.

*It seems like pneumonia is a huge problem in lambs, of course this is reading on forums where people always post their problems. It also seems like sheep are always trying to kill themselves..... 
What is the reality?*

We have never had a big problem with pneumonia. Some people say sheep are just looking for a place to die, but I haven't found that true. With LIVEstock you will always have DEADstock to some extent. Of course sheep will have different health issues than goats, but if you are looking for Katahdins, than you shouldn't have to worry about some of the issues that you might get with wool breeds (ie flystrike).

*The jacobs lived completely off the land, will I have to grain and hay them? I know they will grow bigger with grain but do they REALLY need it? 
*
No. If they have good pasture, they shouldn't need much, if any extra grain.

*If they do need grain, how much? 1/4lb, 1/2lb, 1lb daily?
*
I'd feed them a little bit of grain just to get them friendly and easy to handle, but Katahdins really shouldn't need a lot of supplementation.

*When do you slaughter? Age or by weight? *

We base slaughter time on condition of the lambs and when we have customers. Generally speaking, we send lambs to the butcher in October/November.

*How much does a bummer lamb sell for? I know the price will be vary be region so it wont be exact.*

This will depend on breed, gender (to some extent), and age. We don't normally sell our bummers unless they are ram lambs that we don't want to keep for show/breeding prospects.

*The breed of sheep will probably be katahdin or a katahdin cross. Seems like we have a bunch of them around here.*

That would be a good choice for meat lambs that are raised on pasture.


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## purplequeenvt (Jul 15, 2015)

Latestarter said:


> Have seen the term before... What exactly is a "bummer" lamb?
> "



A "bummer" is an orphaned (through death or rejection) lamb.


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## SheepGirl (Jul 15, 2015)

I know sheep milk has more fat than goat milk. The goats I have a good amount for fat, nut not as much as sheep. Will the lambs need more goat milk then they would sheep milk?

*I've always used lamb milk replacer for feeding lambs and also my goat kid. I plan on using goat milk for future lambs since I bought a dairy goat. They won't need the added volume of extra milk, merely just extra fat. Maybe you can separate cream and add it into milk to make milk with more fat in it?*

How much milk do they start to drink when first born? What is the max a lamb will drink before weaning? 1 gal a day?

*I always offer a bottle only two times a day, starting from day one. My mom likes to offer them a bottle in between feedings. I make a 16 oz bottle and let them finish as much as they can until they lose interest. I wean my lambs at 30 days old (or thereabouts, whenever they've been chewing cud for a few days) and they only get 32 oz of milk a day, split into two feedings.*

How often do you feed them? (milk)

*I bottle feed two times a day, starting from day one.*

I am not doing heatlamps... How will they do if I get a day old lamb in February? I can get a dog coat but I would rather do nothing.

*I lamb in late Feb/early March and my lambs did fine as long as they were dried off. They shiver a bit, but they stay warm.*

It seems like pneumonia is a huge problem in lambs, of course this is reading on forums where people always post their problems. It also seems like sheep are always trying to kill themselves.....
What is the reality?

*Knock on wood, I've never experienced a case of pneumonia in my personal flock at my house in the past three years, nor have I experienced a case of pneumonia at my neighbor's farm in the six years prior to my flock coming to my house. In fact, the sheep rarely get sick. And we've never had any 'freak' killings... usually just parasites were the culprit.*

The jacobs lived completely off the land, will I have to grain and hay them? I know they will grow bigger with grain but do they REALLY need it?

*Growing animals need extra nutrients to meet their nutritional needs, whether that be in the form of high quality, nutrient-dense hay or grain.*

If they do need grain, how much? 1/4lb, 1/2lb, 1lb daily?

*I start with a handful of grain so they get the taste of it (replacing it 1-2x a day because the lambs won't eat 'old' feed) and then I work them up to 1/4 lb a day until weaning off the bottle and I then wean them off the grain because even my dam-fed lambs don't get grain.*

When do you slaughter? Age or by weight?

*I've never slaughtered any of my lambs, and it goes more of by the amount of fat and frame size. A 100 lb Texel lamb at four months old will be extremely fat but a 100 lb Suffolk lamb at four months old will be lean to a good weight. *

How much does a bummer lamb sell for? I know the price will be vary be region so it wont be exact.

*Free to $150. Depends on the breeder and how highly they think of their stock/how much a bummer lamb is a burden to them.*


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 20, 2015)

Thanks for all the info! 

I am looking for bottle lambs because I am going to have lots of milk! 
I have bottle and trough fed a handful of kids before, only 20 or so. Not a huge number but I am not a total newbie to that aspect lol. 

I would probably try to get march-may lambs. I need to talk to some of the folks around here to see when they lamb. 

I DID think about the lamb in February a little bit after posting.... I'm sure they would need a little something to stay warm but I'm not building them a heated barn  

I am thinking  katahdins because they seem to be in abundance here, I'm not looking to breed or keep anything. 

I have had experience with wool sheep and honestly it wasn't a good one.  They were always very healthy and never had more then a few eggs on a slide but were pretty evil. I don't want anything to do with wool sheep for a long long time. 

My concerns with anything wool sheep are:
1) They will just yet out of the hotwire (5 strands) like the other sheep. I am not rescuing sheep off the highway again!
2) Tail docking, don't know how and don't wanna learn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We will not band ANYTHING here.
3) Flystrike
4) Seems like wool sheep have more issues with parasites.
5) They would need more grain
6) Their brain would randomly drop out of their head 

What do y'all think about keeping them on milk longer? I know some goats breeders that keep their kids on milk for 10 months because they don't have use for the milk but need to keep the does in milk for DHIR, LA & showing. The kids grow very fast and put on a lot of weight (dairy goats). I think it could cut down on grain (if I had to feed any) and still get them nice and fat!


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## purplequeenvt (Jul 20, 2015)

*Thanks for all the info! 

I am looking for bottle lambs because I am going to have lots of milk! 
I have bottle and trough fed a handful of kids before, only 20 or so. Not a huge number but I am not a total newbie to that aspect lol. 

I would probably try to get march-may lambs. I need to talk to some of the folks around here to see when they lamb. 

I DID think about the lamb in February a little bit after posting.... I'm sure they would need a little something to stay warm but I'm not building them a heated barn *

They don't need a heated barn, just a dry out of the wind place. 

*I am thinking katahdins because they seem to be in abundance here, I'm not looking to breed or keep anything. 

I have had experience with wool sheep and honestly it wasn't a good one.  They were always very healthy and never had more then a few eggs on a slide but were pretty evil. I don't want anything to do with wool sheep for a long long time. *

I think Katahdins are a good choice for your setup, but just so you know, not all sheep are like the ones you had before. Yours were Jacobs which, in my experience, have a reputation for being "feral". Obviously there are exceptions, but most Jacobs don't stop to think about a situation before panicking and leaving. Personally, I think that Jacobs are evil. A good friend of mine has them and when I help her show, I swear, those sheep TRY to hit me with their horns.

I think if you got a slightly more domesticated breed, you would be happier with them. And though, for what you are wanting to do, I think Katahdins will work well for you.

*My concerns with anything wool sheep are:

1) They will just yet out of the hotwire (5 strands) like the other sheep. I am not rescuing sheep off the highway again!*

My wool sheep stay in 5 strands of poly-wire. 
*2) Tail docking, don't know how and don't wanna learn 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 We will not band ANYTHING here.*

Curious why you don't want to band anything? In 15 years of banding tails and testicles, we have not (so far) had any issues related to banding. I've banded hundreds of lambs over the years and I always do it with the first 72 hours. The first 24 are ideal and the lambs show fewer signs of pain/stress. All of them, regardless of when they are banded, recover quickly, usually within 30 minutes.

*3) Flystrike*

This can be a problem in any breed. Yes, more likely in wool breeds. Of course, there are always exceptions. We lost a lamb to flystrike this summer. She was big and beautiful, no manure stuck anywhere. We had over a week straight of rain and for whatever reason, the flies picked her. She was fine (running along with the other lambs to get her grain) and a couple hours later, dead. No reason prior to that to think anything was wrong. 

*4) Seems like wool sheep have more issues with parasites.*

Maybe. I think that people get caught up in the "parasite resistant breeds" and forget that a lot depends on management. We don't do fecals (one day I will get my act together and learn how to do them myself), but we practice rotational grazing. We have very few parasite problems. We used to have a lot more, losing 1 or 2 lambs a year and having a couple more that lived, but took a long time to get back into good condition. We changed things in our management practices and every year has been better. Someday we will have it perfected. 

*5) They would need more grain
*
Not necessarily. There are breeds that handle grass-fed/minimal grain better than others. The hair sheep have been developed to do well on minimal extra input, but there are wool breeds that would do well on good pasture/browse too. I wouldn't get a big meat breed like a Hampshire or Suffolk (unless you can find an old style breeder), but something like a Southdown would probably do well as well as a number of wool/dual-purpose breeds. 

*6) Their brain would randomly drop out of their head* 

Again, you had a bad experience with bad sheep. Not all sheep are like that. Most sheep can be won over with treats and scratches. Jacobs are a completely different beast from most other breeds.

*What do y'all think about keeping them on milk longer? I know some goats breeders that keep their kids on milk for 10 months because they don't have use for the milk but need to keep the does in milk for DHIR, LA & showing. The kids grow very fast and put on a lot of weight (dairy goats). I think it could cut down on grain (if I had to feed any) and still get them nice and fat!*

If you have the milk and don't mind bottle feeding, go for it! Most people use the 30 days/30lbs rule purely because they are buying expensive milk replacer. I'd use a milk bar bucket and let them drink as much as they want. Or train them to drink out of a pail.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 22, 2015)

purplequeenvt said:


> Curious why you don't want to band anything? In 15 years of banding tails and testicles, we have not (so far) had any issues related to banding. I've banded hundreds of lambs over the years and I always do it with the first 72 hours. The first 24 are ideal and the lambs show fewer signs of pain/stress. All of them, regardless of when they are banded, recover quickly, usually within 30 minutes.


I know many folks who say they don't have issues, and I do believe them but I really don't like the thought of banding. Tissue rotting off gives me the creeps. We cut and pull with no sedation (unless they are older). It sounds silly I know, but I would rather have my finger cut off quickly then a band that takes longer. I have no issues with other people that do it, it really is the most inexpensive way to castrate and when you have 50 sheep lambing you need to do what is best for your farm.

With the tails I am nervous about causing other issues. I have seen some awful banding-gone-wrong posts on here


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 22, 2015)

Thanks for the info BTW!


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## norseofcourse (Jul 22, 2015)

Goat Whisperer said:


> I know many folks who say they don't have issues, and I do believe them but I really don't like the thought of banding. Tissue rotting off gives me the creeps.


I wasn't keen on banding, for that and other reasons.  After 2 years of having a vet surgically castrate ($$$), I bought an emasculatome (side crusher) from Premier1 and did it myself this year.  At about 6 to 8 weeks, a friend held each ram lamb and I wethered them.  I'd also read about the technique on Fias Co farm's website.  I got some pain meds from the vet and gave each lamb some about an hour before, and only one even made a sound.  They were back to normal in minutes.

I am glad to have a breed that you don't have to dock tails, I would not like that at all.  I understand that docking is not typically done on katahdin sheep, either, so you may not have to.


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## Ridgetop (Aug 22, 2015)

We have banded our sheep for 20 years years to dock and castrate.  We give tetanus antitoxin 1 ml when we do tails because we do them in the first week.  We give 2ml CDT then too and by the time we are ready to band testes, their immunity has kicked in.  We have had no issues at all or complications.  When castrating it is important to make sure you don't catch the urethra in the band.  We check before and after applying the band and we think if there is a problem with placement we remove the band and reband.  We stopped banding our auction meat bucklings years ago because our ethnic buyers wanted intact buck kids to BBQ.  Easier and cheaper for us and more $$ from the buyers.  We sold them at 2 - 3 months old.  We wether our lambs because we sell them at 6-8 months to our freezer lamb customers.  The tetanus antitoxin vaccine is the trick when banding (or cutting) tails or testes.  It gives immediate protection while CDT takes a week or so to build the immunities.

GoatWhisperer:  With all that milk have you thought of raising a dairy bull calf for "veal" or baby beef?  Or even for $$$.  We milked over a dozen does am and pm because we were on test and used to raise 3 newborn bull calves at a time.  (No home milk sales allowed in California.)  If you can find a dairy who will give them colostrum (we had a 4-H friend who owned a dairy) that is best.  The dairyman wants them gone asap so right after they are born and have had their colostrum you pick them up.  They thrive on 1 gal am and 1 gal pm of goat milk.  Watch for scours and treat with paste electrolytes and gut bacteria paste from the feed store (horse stuff is fine).  If you keep extra colostrum in your freezer (I heat treated all mine and froze it for the following year.  I labeled it according to 1st milking, 2nd milking, etc.  I gave the calves the 2nd and 3rd milking if they didn't get any colostrum and it seemed to do the trick.)  Anyway, if they are going to be veal, just increase the milk until they are 3 mos old and then into the freezer.  If you are going to sell them get 3 because they will bring more money in lots, keep them on 2 gal a day but add some grain and (the best part) the spilled or stalky hay your goats will not eat.  At 2 months send them to the cattle auction.  I got Angus prices for my Holstein calves because they were fat, clean and shiny.  If you are raising a veal for meat, you will not be able to raise as many because by butchering time he will be drinking upwards of 6 or more gals of milk.  If you decide to convert your calf into baby beef (12 months old butchering date)have the vet cut him PLEASE.


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## goatgurl (Aug 22, 2015)

Goat Whisperer, I've been raising bummer lambs off and on for years on plain ole' goats milk and they do just fine.  all of the bummers were wool sheep and they normally have their tails docked to prevent problems but if you are going to butcher them at a few months of age it shouldn't be a big deal.  i also only fed them twice a day unless one was weak or something and needed the extra.  i worked them up from 8 oz to 32 ozs a feeding.  i went to the grocery store a few years ago to get a leg of lamb for easter and they wanted $64. for one leg and i thought dang i could get a whole lamb for about that and went out and bought 2 ewes and a ram to start my own leg of lamb factory.   the katahdins meat is very flavorful and tender.   i have raised a small herd of katahdins for the last four years and normally their tails don't need docked.  it felt weird to me not to dock them, old school ya know,  but i have had no problems with them from not docking.  i do castrate the ram lambs but never dock them.  and the others are right, the katahdins are quite personable and i am able to work them as needed.  in the past four years I've never had to worm them or trim feet, they are quite hardy.  as far as grain goes i put one 3 qt. scoop of feed out for 8 sheep every couple of days so in reality if they have good pasture that and hay in the winter that is all they need.  i run my sheep and goats all together in about 60 acres of pasture and woods and have never had a problem with them being together. i feed them grain separately but eat hay all together.  and Ridgetop is right, it's easy to raise calves on goats milk too.  the price of bottle calves is thru the roof right now but you can usually find jersey bull calves for a couple hundred $ and can sell them for a whole lot more when they are weaned.  good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## Ridgetop (Aug 23, 2015)

You won't need heat lamps unless it is super cold.  I used heat lamps for newborn dairy goat kids but not with the lambs.  I use shop lights with reflectors, but use 100 watt bulbs instead of heat lamp bulbs and it is enough.  California can get really cold when a cold front comes down from the north or it is really windy.

Since you want the lambs to start eating hay as soon as possible, I think a quart am and pm would be enough.  Lambs grow faster and bigger than dairy goat kids but I am not sure about Katahdins which I hear are smaller boned sheep.  You butcher between 6 - 8 months, or about 75 to 100 lbs depending on breed.  We have kept lambs to 1 year without a problem if you want larger chops, etc.  Sheep are pasture animals so although they will forage, it depends on the quality of forage you have.  When the weeds and brush are thick we don't feed any hay, but do give a small grain ration in the barn at night.  Mostly this is to encourage them to come inside since we like to keep them in the barn at night.  It gives a little help to our LGD since she is their only protection and we have active predators.  It also gives us a chance to check on their health and condition every day since we are very steep here and they are usually out of sight when on the pastures.

If you have raised goat kids, you won't have any trouble with your bummer lambs.  CDT just like your meat goats.  You can put the lambs with the kids you are raising.  The main reason people segregate sheep and goats is that sheep can get abcesses from shearing and foxtails working their way into the wool, which a lot of people mistake for CL.  Since Katahdins are hair sheep that shouldn't be a problem.  You can also ask if the breeder vaccinates for CL.


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## babsbag (Aug 25, 2015)

@Ridgetop   Did you raise some the calves for yourself? I have toyed with idea many a time but always figured I needed to raise it to 18 months at least and being that we have ZERO pasture grass just never went down that road.

I have a source for Jersey bulls for $4.00 (or maybe free). I know they are pretty lanky but do you think they would be worth raising?

Hope I have NO extra milk next year, that would be ideal with a dairy, right? But you never know.


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## goatgurl (Aug 25, 2015)

@babsbag if you have a surplus of milk then raising calves is the easiest way to go.  a small pen, some hay, a water bucket and bucket feeding the milk twice a day is how i did it before.  the cheapest I've seen 3-5 day old jerseys around here is $150.  and saw a 4 1/2 month old weaned jersey bull on craigslist selling for $1,000.  insane.  i was just talking to ds#1 about this last night and i think i may see how it goes next spring.


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 25, 2015)

goatgurl said:


> @babsbag if you have a surplus of milk then raising calves is the easiest way to go.  a small pen, some hay, a water bucket and bucket feeding the milk twice a day is how i did it before.  the cheapest I've seen 3-5 day old jerseys around here is $150.  and saw a 4 1/2 month old weaned jersey bull on craigslist selling for $1,000.  insane.  i was just talking to ds#1 about this last night and i think i may see how it goes next spring.


Beef prices are really high right now
My hay man got got 9 Holstein bull calves early spring and was feeding replacer ( they are steers now )
Last time I asked him they were weaned
Next time I get hay need to ask what they weigh


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## Ridgetop (Aug 25, 2015)

Topic here is bummer lambs.  And maybe bottle calves.

I have raised calves for my freezer as veal but if raising them for myself to any age past 3 mos. would absolutely steer them.  I don't trust bulls and don't like to take chances with them even as babies.  Also, the younger you can castrate, the easier and cheaper it will be.  I would definitely raise Jersey calves if you can get them free or $4.00 each.  Can't beat that price!  Try to get the dairyman to let them have colostrum.  He can't sell milk with colostrum so might be willing to let the calf nurse for 24 hours.  Maybe offer $10.00 for the calf if it nurses 24 hours?  Jerseys are smaller boned, so while they look lankier than Holsteins, you can put more meat on them with the same amount of milk.  If you want to raise them for sale at the auction, they sell better and higher as a lot of at least 3 the same age together.   Check what a 3 to 6 mos. Jersey bull or steer calf would bring at the local auction.  I used to raise 3 at a time on 2 gal. milk daily each and when they turned a month they were also getting the waste hay from my dairy does.  A little grain, not much, to polish them up and you will have a really nice lot of 2 month old calves to send through the cattle sale yard.  Because you are raising just 3 and giving them that nice rich goat milk, they will be fat, shiny and clean.  You should get top price for the lot of three.  My auction yard owner told me not to hold them any linger than 2 months because they sell for more $$ at that age in ratio to what you put into them.  If you check with the local sale yard, they can tell you what age sells best.

If you are going to raise a calf for yourself, you do it the same way EXCEPT if you want veal (totally milk fed) you increase the milk as it needs it and butcher at 3 months.  By then you might be feeding 4 gals. daily.  You can't really keep a veal any longer without health problems because by feeding ONLY milk, the rumen, etc. doesn't develop.  The milk stomach can't support a calf longer than 3 mos.  If you want baby beef, then you do it the same way you do the calves for sale, offer waste hay to encourage the rumen, etc. to develop.  You can feed some grain before butchering to put on some marbling.  How long you keep the baby beef is up to you but definitely castrate the calf.

Since you said you don't have any pasture, I think your best bet is to raise calves for the sale yard at 2 months, and a calf for yourself to butcher at 3-4 mos.  You can give all of them the waste hay, but I wouldn't bother keeping the calf for yourself past 3 months because without pasture it will be too expensive to raise a steer.  (We don't have any pasture either.)  Also, if you are planning to raise the steer to 18 mos. (beef butcher age) you will have to get the vet to castrate it, put a magnet in its stomach, get vaccinations, etc.  Much easier and cheaper to raise several 3 mos. calves for the freezer one after the other with all your surplus milk.  You will be able to raise several calves at a time since they only drink 2 gal. day (you can give them more) and the wasted hay from the goat feeders and pen.  Cattle will eat all that stemmy hay that the girls turn up their noses at! LOL

If you have anyone that wants a veal calf (they are increasingly hard to find - not PC) here the local FFA is charging and getting $10/lb. for veal calves, live weight.  You can offer your buyers to drop their calf off at the butcher when you take yours (for a minimal charge).  I only sold my calves at the sale yard in lots, but it sure made a big dent in the hay bill.  Do your homework with the local cattle auction first.  You should do very well with getting Jersey bull calves so cheap.  If the dairy uses Angus bulls on their first fresheners, you should definitely take them, but Jersy calves with their fine bones should put on meat fine.


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## elevan (Aug 25, 2015)

Moderator Comment - This thread has been cleaned up extensively.  Let's stay on subject or this thread will be closed.  Thank you.


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## babsbag (Aug 26, 2015)

The dairy owner that I bought my processing trailer from was ready to send home all his bull calves with me as he lost his outlet this year. He was only getting $4 for them so he would have happily given me all I wanted.  Unfortunately I had no idea how to raise them and for once didn't jump in head first like I normally do.

He keeps all of his heifers so all of his calves get colostrum, no matter the sex. He has to milk them 8 times before they can go back into the milk string so he lets the calves nurse.

I think I have missed my chance though as far as having excess milk.   This year I am literally throwing away about 6 gallons a day; I better not be doing that next year but this is still good information to know. Just wish I had known it sooner.


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## samssimonsays (Aug 26, 2015)

babsbag said:


> The dairy owner that I bought my processing trailer from was ready to send home all his bull calves with me as he lost his outlet this year. He was only getting $4 for them so he would have happily given me all I wanted.  Unfortunately I had no idea how to raise them and for once didn't jump in head first like I normally do.
> 
> He keeps all of his heifers so all of his calves get colostrum, no matter the sex. He has to milk them 8 times before they can go back into the milk string so he lets the calves nurse.
> 
> I think I have missed my chance though as far as having excess milk.   This year I am literally throwing away about 6 gallons a day; I better not be doing that next year but this is still good information to know. Just wish I had known it sooner.


I know people who started to raise feeder pigs on the excess milk as well


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## Ridgetop (Aug 26, 2015)

Can you contact the Jersey dairyman and still get some calves?  Dairies calve all year.  I know some people raise hogs on milk but you have to supply feed too which adds to your cost.  We used to put 5 lbs. of rolled corn in a bucket and poured the morning milk on and let it soak all day, and ditto for the evening milk.  We slopped our 2 hogs with that am and pm.  They didn't win at fair because they had too much fat on them, but they sure were juicy and it spoiled us for pork from any other source!  You will have to keep them longer and still buy pig feed since unlike the calves you can't just feed milk and waste hay.  Calves will cost you almost nothing.  Since the breeder lets them nurse you will get healthy bull calves and I think it could be a win-win for you.  Also keep it in mind if you have goats on meds in future in your dairy since you can raise a calf on milk you would have to toss otherwise.  If it is going to be raised for meat as a baby beef, not veal, feeding medicated milk would be ok since the slaughter date would be past the withdrawal time.  It's getting late in the season and you will be breeding the goats soon, but since you milk all year, you might check to see if you could still pick up a bull calf or two.  You won't be drying up until 2 months before kidding so might have enough milk to feed a couple calves for 2 -3 months.  Beats dumping all that milk.  We lost 2 groups of calves to e.coli one year, one after the other, and had to stop our calf operation until we could let the ground sterilize.  We had to dump our excess milk for about 5 months and the waste of that good milk (10 gals daily) nearly killed me!  My youngest used the mechanical separator and made ice cream every day all summer long but there was all that good skim going down the drain!  I don't make cheese or maybe I could have used some of it that way.  I used as much as I could cooking but even with our family of 6 drinking it . . . .


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## babsbag (Aug 26, 2015)

I never thought about asking him now, I am so used to my seasonal goats that I just figured he was done.

When I worked at a school I used to bring home about 20lbs a day of lunch room scraps for the pigs. Between milk, eggs, rotten fruit from a friends orchard, my garden, and the school those little piggies were pretty darn cheap to raise. And yummy.


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## Latestarter (Aug 27, 2015)

I have an elementary school about 2 blocks down from me... I really should go check w/their lunch room and see If I can have ready made pig feed...


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## Ridgetop (Aug 27, 2015)

Good idea but I like calves better.  Quicker in and out and less sturdy fencing required for 2-3 mos calves.  I like putting each one in a "calf hutch" individually for the first month.  That way if one scours, you catch it quick.  After a month they build muscle playing together in a larger arena. 
If you already have the pig pens made, it might be the easier way to go.


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## babsbag (Aug 27, 2015)

@Latestarter  I put out 5 gallon buckets and taped pictures of the pigs to it. Our school is very "green" so it was only natural for the kids to recycle their food for my pigs. I let them put in everything except fried chicken as I didn't want to worry about bones. The kids were great, sometimes a little too much. We caught a few taking milk and apples from the lunch line just for the pigs.   Kids are so cute.

@Ridgetop  The dairy uses the calf huts, not sure I can afford that. Did you keep the calves with the goats at all or did they have their own pens and pastures? Not sure about dealing with "cow patties"


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## Ridgetop (Aug 28, 2015)

No, our friends that owned the dairy bought new state of the art calf hutches for their heifer calves and gave us some of their old wooden ones.  We repaired them and doused them with bleach before and after putting a new calf in.  They are just small boxes with slatted floors big enough for the calf to stand and turn around.  The sides are horizontal slats that are open on the upper sides.  They only stand about 4' tall.  The "gate" is just 3 2 x 3's through a bracket.  The front has a A bottle hanger and a calf pail support for a small amount of grain if you choose.  I put little bits of hay in the pail. Mine had roofs because they were designed to be outside but if you have barn space or covered space you could just build small pens there.  I used to have metal lambing jugs I got from Jeffers that could be taken apart and put back together when you needed them.  Those would work.  You could just also hinge plywood panels together so you could fold them up later or use them for the kids when you need them.  You won't be raising calves during kidding season because you need all the milk for them.  If your dairyman has some old ones that you could patch that ght be a good way to start out.  You only need about 3 holes (The old wooden calf hutches were usually made to take 3 calves in one divided hutch) since you will be moving the calves into a corral at a month old.  Depending on your milk supply you can bring in more calves then after disinfecting the hutches. 
    I only use them for the first 3 or 4 weeks of the calf's life so I can keep an eye on his poop.  Scours will kill a calf in 24 hours so it is important to dose him with electrolytes and probiotics fast.  I use paste ones for horses because if the calf is sick it immediately stops eating which means it won't take the electrolyte mix in a bottle.  The paste is salty and the calf will drink a little to wash out the taste.  If I have a calf with scours, I cut his milk half and half with water till it clears up.  You have more trouble with veal since they are not getting any roughage. Since you will be getting calves that have had 24 hours of colostrum, yours will probably be fine.  The ones you worry about are the ones that haven't gotten a feed from mom.
    I didn't keep my calves with the goats because of the nasty cow patties.  I also didn't want the older goats to pick on them, and the babies were too small.  Even a Jersey bull calf can weigh 60 or more lbs at birth.  The Holsteins we had were more like 80 lbs.  In 2 months they should be approaching 150 to 200 depending on breed.  That is when I took them to the auction.  My calves were fat, healthy, sleek and shiny - they were also clean with no scours on their butts.  I think that is why I got such good $$ for them.  A lot of the feeder calves coming off pasture were dirty, with dull coats and mucky butts. 
    I don't know if you have children to help you - my 4 were assigned chores that included a lot of the milking and feeding, while I did all the straining, pasteurizing and milk storage work after the milk came up from the barn.  I also got all the kid buckets ready then collected them and washed, etc.  After the boys sold their herds, I was amazed at how much time I had spent pasteurizing and washing milk equipment.  I pasteurized in the morning so the previous night's milk and the am milk took 3 pasteurizers (2 gal each) 3 times I had so much milk.  With the calves I didn't have to pasteurize any more.  Since you are going to have a commercial dairy, you can't use this trick but I put blue or green food color in the milk as it came out of the pasteurizer so it wouldn't get mistaken for the unpasteurized milk for the goats.  If it was white it was for our table or needed to be pasteurized.  I pasteurized after taking the kids to school so I would not have any pasteurized milk from feeding around while working with the fresh milk.  With 5 of us working hard (6 on the weekends when DH was home) it was a lot of work and I credit all that work with the fact that none of my kids got into drugs, etc. or any other trouble.  Also, every one of their employers in high school and now are amazed at their work ethic.  They were not allowed to play till the work was done.  If it was sloppy they had to redo it.  It was usually done right the first time!  LOL  It was a real farm lifestyle!
     I loooove the "adopt a pig" idea!  What a great way to teach kids about farm animals.


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## goatgurl (Sep 9, 2015)

this is mad calf, his mom was mad cow because she would go "mad"  for the first 2 or 3 weeks of her new calf's life and try to run you over.  at the age of 14 she gave birth to mad calf and never recovered so i ended up bottle raising him.  got him from a neighbor.  i was at ds#3 house and looked out the window to see him standing on her back deck to get out of the snow.  we laughed to say the least.  he's the guy in my freezer now.  i let him run on the whole 60 acres with the goats after he was about 6 weeks old and just let him graze till he was about 18 months old.  grass fed with just a tiny bit of grain now and then.  tasty


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